Last updated2020-09-26T13:49:26



151116 Ceriain, replying to Ceriain, 18, #1 of 1704 🔗

First! Whooo.

Re. the first item above:

“The documents stressed that had nothing been done to stop the spread of

the virus in March, 400,000 people could have died of Covid.”

“Could have”

“But they acknowledged the restrictions had significant unintended consequences.”

But they still continue to do it. Jeez!

151122 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Ceriain, 39, #2 of 1704 🔗

85,590,000 people could have died worldwide of Manchurian pneumonic plague. Lock down the world.

27,000 people could have died last year from blood poisoning caused by cat scratches. Kill all the cats.

250,000 lives could be saved and a society and economy rescued from the brink of destruction if 250 statisticians and medical committee men were put back in their boxes and locked up.

151213 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 4, #3 of 1704 🔗

Perhaps controversial, but as a bird lover I’m with you on the cats.

151427 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 12, #4 of 1704 🔗

over 1500 people killed each year in DIY accidents … Shut down B&Q

151676 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to mjr, 5, #5 of 1704 🔗

Been saying it for years. It’s a cover up. Boris has shares in homebase

152069 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 4, #6 of 1704 🔗

Has anyone noticed we seem to have an epidemic of epidemiologists. Every university in the land seems to have at least three.

151123 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Ceriain, 5, #7 of 1704 🔗

The Mail report also says 1.4 million could have died if the NHS had been overwhelmed.
Earlier this week ferguson said, on BBC R4 Today Programme, that would cause 50 or 70,000 additional deaths not a million.

151506 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to karenovirus, 2, #8 of 1704 🔗

I suppose someone has to listen the BBC, if only to tells others that it is as bad as ever.

151682 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to karenovirus, 3, #9 of 1704 🔗

1.4 million seems utterly ridiculous.. That stat stands at any point in time. If the NHS is overwhelmed by any unforseen crisis they’d be seeing those kinds of levels of collateral damage. Never mind we are dealing with something wich we quickly realised was manageable albeit with stretched staff in some areas.

They almost seem to be patting themselves on the back with a job well done. It’s warped.

151158 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Ceriain, 28, #10 of 1704 🔗

Were it not for the lockdown 80 million people would have died in the UK

151214 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 10, #11 of 1704 🔗


151302 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 10, #12 of 1704 🔗

80 million!!! WOW that’s more than 43% of the population!!

151510 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Two-Six, 4, #13 of 1704 🔗

Then that shows just how lucky we’ve been, as it could have been so much worse.

151160 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Ceriain, #14 of 1704 🔗

Giuseppe Conte all’Onu: la pandemia è opportunità per un nuovo inizio – See more at: http://www.rainews.it/

Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte to the UN: the pandemic is an opportunity for a new beginning

He’s the one who started all this in Italy. This has been no opportunity for the Italian people.
The Mail said the story was exclusive but Toby nicked it.

EXCLUSIVE: Lockdown ‘may kill 75,000’ – that’s the OFFICIAL projection of the deadly toll of Covid restrictions including missed cancer diagnoses, cancelled operations and health impacts of a recession. The virus death toll?

42,000 (Deaths for any reason 28 day after a positive test – Source UK Government)


151173 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 4, #15 of 1704 🔗

The Mail said the story was exclusive but Toby nicked it.

So “exclusive” that it was posted on the Government website and I linked to it in a comment on this site yesterday.

151216 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Richard Pinch, 18, #16 of 1704 🔗

Putting it on the Government website is the equivalent of putting it on display in a locked filing cabinet in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying beware of the leopard.

151249 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Andrew Fish, 4, #17 of 1704 🔗

Lights gone? So had the stairs.

151407 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Basics, #18 of 1704 🔗

… and this site?

151643 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Andrew Fish, 1, #19 of 1704 🔗


151514 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 7, #20 of 1704 🔗

Many of the 42000 deaths never had a positive test and were simply based on opinion. The tests in any case are unfit for use as a diagnostic tool.

151588 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Rowan, 3, #21 of 1704 🔗

“opinion” ought to read: suspicion.

151203 ▶▶ Michael May, replying to Ceriain, 7, #22 of 1704 🔗

So, they’re still saying that if nothing had been done to supress the virus, 400,000 could have died, and 1.4 million of the NHS had been overrun. Given the lockdown-enthusiats’ claims that it was the various NPIs that prevented infections and cases and the NHS being overrun, and that we know that the point of suppression is not to reduce the overall number of deaths, but to spread them out over a longer term so that the health services are not overloaded, this is tantamount to saying that we still expect another 1.36 million deaths from CoVID-19.

Given how quiet the virus is becoming, we’d better get a move on. <koff>

151518 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Michael May, 5, #23 of 1704 🔗

The virus may be keeping a low profile, but of course Boris isn’t. He need to go.

151688 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Michael May, 2, #24 of 1704 🔗

Excellent point. Without a virus with efficency the likes we have never seen before, that logic seems solid to me.

You see this all the time. Massaging the numbers in one area leads to absolutely nonsensical logic when the same approach is placed in a wider context. It’s a sign of deception at play.

151232 ▶▶ NickR, replying to Ceriain, 6, #25 of 1704 🔗

Just to illustrate the total bollix of this:

  1. Original estimate for deaths used an IFR (infection fatality rate) of 1%. That’s where this 400,000 comes from & where Ferguson’s 500,000 comes from.
  2. Whitty’s worst case scenario last week had 200 deaths from 50,000 infections, an IFR of 0.4%, so 400,000 would have been 160,000.
  3. Many epidemiologists are suggesting 0.25%, in which case 400,000 would have been 100,000.
151397 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to NickR, #26 of 1704 🔗

IFR of 0.8-1% is what was reported from Manaus and Guayauil, on the basis of infections in the 20-30% range. Seroprevalence data recently reported from Manaus suggests total infections of 66%, if so IFR would have been lower, say 0.25% or so. New York City has population 0.25% so their IFR much be at least that. If NYC had 25% infection, that would still be IFR 1%.

There are two reasons why CFR should come down. One is that we are getting better at treating patients (eg dexamethasone) and another is, we hope, relative success at shielding the elderly and vulnerable.

151656 ▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #27 of 1704 🔗

It is doubtful whether dexamethasone or any similar corticosteroid has any net mortality benefit. And as an immuno-suppressant, it should never be used in simple first-stage illness. It may have some clinical utility in late stage systemic inflammatory illness. But the manifestation of such acute illness (Cytokine storm, ARD) is now exceedingly rare. In the recovery trial it was only patients receiving assisted ventilation that derived any mortality benefit. Hospitalised patients who did not receive assisted ventilation actually did worse.

From the literature:-

Acute lung injury and acute respiratory distress syndrome are partly caused by host immune responses. Corticosteroids suppress lung inflammation but also inhibit immune responses and pathogen clearance. In SARS-CoV infection, as with influenza, systemic inflammation is associated with adverse outcomes.
In SARS, inflammation persists after viral clearance.
Pulmonary histology in both SARS and MERS infections reveals inflammation and diffuse alveolar damage, with one report suggesting haemophagocytosis.
Theoretically, corticosteroid treatment could have a role to suppress lung inflammation.
In a retrospective observational study reporting on 309 adults who were critically ill with MERS, almost half of patients (151 [49%]) were given corticosteroids (median hydrocortisone equivalent dose [ie, methylprednisolone 1:5, dexamethasone 1:25, prednisolone 1:4] of 300 mg/day). Patients who were given corticosteroids were more likely to require mechanical ventilation, vasopressors, and renal replacement therapy. After statistical adjustment for immortal time and indication biases, the authors concluded that administration of corticosteroids was not associated with a difference in 90-day mortality (adjusted odds ratio 0·8, 95% CI 0·5–1·1; p=0·12) but was associated with delayed clearance of viral RNA from respiratory tract secretions (adjusted hazard ratio 0·4, 95% CI 0·2–0·7; p=0·0005). However, these effect estimates have a high risk of error due to the probable presence of unmeasured confounders.
In a meta-analysis of corticosteroid use in patients with SARS, only four studies provided conclusive data, all indicating harm.

A 2019 systematic review and meta-analysis identified ten observational studies in influenza, with a total of 6548 patients. The investigators found increased mortality in patients who were given corticosteroids (risk ratio [RR] 1·75, 95% CI 1·3–2·4; p=0·0002). Among other outcomes, length of stay in an intensive care unit was increased (mean difference 2·1, 95% CI 1·2–3·1; p<0·0001), as was the rate of secondary bacterial or fungal infection (RR 2·0, 95% CI 1·0–3·8; p=0·04).

However, generalising evidence from acute respiratory distress syndrome studies to viral lung injury is problematic because these trials typically include a majority of patients with acute respiratory distress syndrome of non-pulmonary or sterile cause. A review of treatments for acute respiratory distress syndrome of any cause, based on six studies with a total of 574 patients, concluded that insufficient evidence exists to recommend corticosteroid treatment.


151984 ▶▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #28 of 1704 🔗

The figures from Manaus is interesting. A rather hight IFR 0,25% with 65 % infection rate. Why? If you go to Nigeria, Kenya, Pakistan and India you have pockets of very high infection rate but very low fatality rate. The same thing in Japan. There is a striking high death rate in South America but mainly in countries with a heavy indian population like Amazonas, Ecuador, Peru, Bolivia,and  Mexico. If you go to Uruguay and Argentina with much less Indian population much lower death rate. Different races have different susceptibility to infection. This is nothing new in mankind with syphilis and smallpox and TB with different susceptibility for severe infection. Why should C-19 be different even if it is not PC to speak about it?

152060 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #29 of 1704 🔗

Most of us have either had it, have herd immunity and/or functioning T-cells.

Thos whose immune systems are compromised are the only ones we need to shield. The rest should be allowed to get on with their lives.

152214 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Cheezilla, #30 of 1704 🔗

Herd immunity isn’t a thing that people have, at least not as individuals. It’s a property of the population as a whole, expressing the fact that sufficiently many people are immune , for whatever reason, that the virus is unable to spread with the usual pattern of personal interaction. Whether “most of us” have personal immunity via either antibodies or T-cells is not yet clear.

151351 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Ceriain, 12, #31 of 1704 🔗

It’s a total disgrace for them to justify killing 75,000 actual people with saving 400,000 (or 1.4 million, or 1.4 trillion, it doesn’t matter) imaginary people.

151402 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to guy153, #32 of 1704 🔗

No, they’re real people, just alive rather than dead. But this is the sort of calculation that has to be done. It’s not easy.

151423 ▶▶▶▶ ChrisDinBristol, replying to Richard Pinch, 7, #33 of 1704 🔗

No, they are real people with imaginary outcomes.

151498 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Ceriain, 6, #34 of 1704 🔗

Continuing to seek advice from “experts” who have been consistently wrong tells us that this is about far more than incompetence. These “experts” are giving the government the advice it needs and wants for it to further its real agenda. Covid-19 is simply a vehicle for the drastic changes the government is obligated to bring about. None of this can possibly end well.

151118 Cecil B, 3, #35 of 1704 🔗


151119 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 113, #36 of 1704 🔗

When I was a young person I could walk down a street or visit the next town and there would be no record that I had ever been there

The state assumed I was law abiding and I was free to do as I wished

That was freedom

Now the state assumes I am a criminal

Cctv in most streets, railway stations, pubs, shops, even passing cyclists and cars are filming me

People have been mugged into buying a £500 telescreen that they willingly carry around with them so the state can track their every movement

Cars that report back to the manufacturer if I open the boot or wind the window down

The state says i cannot be in the company of my children, grand children, attend a funeral or a wedding, or celebrate Christmas

The state locks up our mother’s and father’s in death camps in conditions that would be a breach of the Geneva convention if they were captured combatants

Time to rip this whole stinking edifice down or die attempting it

151142 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cecil B, 30, #37 of 1704 🔗

It’s the reason I’m not online at home and leave my phone switched off in the car overnight.
I still use my old phone for texts and calls but even that goes off when I turn in.
I used to play a little game by always leaving the city on a major road where i know there is a number recognition camera but return on a minor one where there isn’t.

151149 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 42, #38 of 1704 🔗

Some years ago, my car was stolen off the drive.
A sympathetic policeman called round and showed me that my every move the previous day, when I was driving the car, could be tracked, but nothing at all could be traced after the car had been stolen.
We need to talk to thieves.

151192 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 6, #39 of 1704 🔗

They probably have some trick similar to putting older stolen radios in mums freezer compartment which disabled the disabler mechanism.

151182 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Cecil B, 13, #40 of 1704 🔗

Trafalgar Square Noon Today.

151206 ▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to PastImperfect, 11, #41 of 1704 🔗

On my way now.

151348 ▶▶▶▶ William Purle, replying to Kath Andrews, 6, #42 of 1704 🔗

Me too.

152348 ▶▶ BWooster, replying to Cecil B, 2, #43 of 1704 🔗

You should read Peter Hitchens ‘the abolition of liberty’. It explains this very well and in depth

151120 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 35, #44 of 1704 🔗

How can the Government still believe these catastrophic predictions from discredited models when the experience of countries like Sweden, Tanzania and Belarus show the truth about what happens under minimal restrictions? Is it a case of refusing to believe the evidence of one’s own eyes because it is too painful? Certainly, there is some serious corporate groupthink going on.

When I first heard the figure of a half million deaths being bandied about, I knew I was being bulshitted. Just looking around at other countries told me this was an out and out lie.

When Johnson spoke to the country in early May, claiming that over “four hundred thousand lives have been saved”, I heard the propaganda tactics of a regime that had got it seriously wrong and didn’t want to admit it, now doubling down.

Until Johnson goes, this nonsense will not end, unless we overthrow it. The best way of doing that IS TO IGNORE IT!

151125 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Nick Rose, 6, #45 of 1704 🔗

I missed hearing johnson making that claim, one of the benefits of not having a telly.

151121 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 20, #46 of 1704 🔗

Right, got a train to catch. See you all Sunday.

151124 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #47 of 1704 🔗

Have a nice trip.

151145 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #48 of 1704 🔗

Have a good one

151165 ▶▶ Hoppy Uniatz, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #49 of 1704 🔗

I’ll look out for you outside the National Gallery!

151234 ▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 14, #50 of 1704 🔗

Maybe see you there, long black coat, long black hair and puffy eyes caused by lack of sleep, too much gin and a WhatsApp argument late last night with someone very dear to me but who remains brainwashed 😔

151191 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #51 of 1704 🔗

All the best!!!

151209 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Nick Rose, 8, #52 of 1704 🔗

Have s great day and don’t get ‘nicked’!! 🙂 I hope there’s a great turnout and peaceful. Will look forward to your report

151126 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 43, #53 of 1704 🔗

Picking up on comments on the previous post, I’ve noticed signs of a potentially harsh winter: the local rowan trees ,pyracantha and berberis bushes are loaded with berries, and the rugosa rose hedges are laden with bright hips.

Secondly, the barnacle geese have started their winter migration to the Solway Firth; I’ve seen and heard 3-4 flights in the past few days.

They fly directly over my area twice each year and I love watching and listening as the skeins pass over on their way south and then north with the return of spring.

I don’t recall witnessing such an early migration in previous years, although I’m strictly an amateur observer.

These observations confirm the concerns which I raised yesterday: a harsh winter coming on top of this utterly senseless Covid madness will force thousands of those who are already struggling into fuel poverty, already a serious problem in the UK.

So, I’ll say again: have any of the lunatics in charge given serious thought to this?

151140 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to wendyk, 14, #54 of 1704 🔗

More and more people dependant on the State, the worse it gets the better they’ll like it.
I imagine it must be quite satisfying for a down at heel DWP worker having a well educated, formerly gainfully employed person at their mercy. I’m told they enjoy it more than long term skanks who know how to play the system.

151144 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to karenovirus, 11, #55 of 1704 🔗

I think you’re right, and this happened to me many years ago.

(My area is also full of skanks who know how to play the system, and they’re all thriving!)

However, fuel poverty will have to be addressed eventually, if the lunacy persists, unless, of course, they’ll rely on hypothermia to finish us all off!

Refuseniks like us top of the list for suspension of gas and electricity supplies: it could happen….

151195 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to wendyk, 8, #56 of 1704 🔗

Stay clear of the smart meter.

151200 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to karenovirus, 8, #57 of 1704 🔗

I won’t have one! I’ve resisted all the sales ploys.

151300 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to karenovirus, 6, #58 of 1704 🔗

Aye, but many employed for a long time and nearer retirement will have ,”too much” savings.
This will carry through into resentment against system, which a good party should be able to exploit.
Permanent state wrecks your life, makes you unemployed then you can’t get any dole as you’ve saved too much while you also paid eyewatering taxes over 30 years.
The state has withdrawn healthcare and proper education unless you are one of the select state employees.
The smug Karens and Maskholes will wake up on 31st Oct as a lot of companies will bite the bullet then.

151320 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to karenovirus, 2, #59 of 1704 🔗

People like this will be more likely to have sucessfull job seeking outcomes, well they used to anyway.

151162 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to wendyk, 22, #60 of 1704 🔗

I mentioned something similar here a few months ago – no-one will want to queue or eat al fresco in the cold and woe betide any shop staff or museum assistant who force people out into the street in the cold or pouring rain because they’ve exceeded their “quota” of people inside their premises, there could be verbal and physical violence.

Winter is indeed coming, literally and figuratively. A really cold one coupled with high unemployment and bankruptcy rates is a recipe for disaster.

Bet the idiots in charge and their lockdownista collaborators have not cottoned on to this.

151163 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #61 of 1704 🔗

I’m sure you’re right, Bart. Most of them will have no idea of the misery which fuel poverty can inflict, and this will increasingly hit those who are already bearing the brunt of all this in unemployment, reduced hours and wages and the stresses and strains deriving from the various batty diktats.

151166 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to wendyk, 15, #62 of 1704 🔗

Agree. More and more companies are already making people redundant or have started the process and furlough hasn’t even ended yet.

That is what angered me about Sunak’s budget, he didn’t seem to address the soaring unemployment and bankruptcy figures.

And the sheep who are still asleep, perhaps winter will wake them up and they will realise that all the masks and social distancing won’t save them from the coming stagnation and misery.

151168 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Bart Simpson, 13, #63 of 1704 🔗

As you and I have agreed before, the most avid lockdown enthusiasts-at least in my experience-are the comparatively affluent,who can literally afford to feed the fear.

I suspect that the coming winter might exceed the damage done by the years of austerity measures,which clobbered those already at the bottom of the heap.

BTW, I’m not by any means a socialist-I think Corbyn would have been even worse than this lot-but the gulf is steadily growing between the haves and the have nots.

Any government worth its salt,or even cynically aware of the benefits of self interest, will have to make some restitution for all this damage.

151169 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to wendyk, 9, #64 of 1704 🔗

Exactly. And even the comparatively affluent will be damaged. Not now but by policies that the government will enact to try to contain the damage they have created. Tax raids and ghost town city centres will come to haunt them.

Many people have already been thrown in the scrapheap and more will be as the reality starts to bite.

Governments should realise that the longer they carry on with this, the more people will seek various means to end this farce.

151179 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to wendyk, 21, #65 of 1704 🔗

Totally right, Wendy. It’s a middle-class disease. Not Covid, but the fear of it.

151341 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Templeton, replying to Now More Than Ever, 2, #66 of 1704 🔗

This. Totally.

151306 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to wendyk, 12, #67 of 1704 🔗

The enthusiasts are 99% on secure pensions or secure state incomes paid from taxation.
NHS, quango and council employees, all on 100% wages for 7 months for doing next to no work.

151330 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Alan P, replying to Nessimmersion, 15, #68 of 1704 🔗

I’m in one of those categories, and believe me when I say I have been against all of this madness since early March. So don’t tar everyone with the zealot brush!

151962 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Alan P, 5, #69 of 1704 🔗

No doubt, but that doesn’t defeat my observation.
I’m glad to know there are some rational adults in the public sector that understand you need a functioning economy to afford the nice things in life like education, health and old age pensions.

151722 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Nessimmersion, 2, #70 of 1704 🔗

We should offer retirement anyone over 60 who is scared to work and just keep people in employment that actually want to get out and do something useful.

This idea that people should just shelter until it blows over is unbelievable offensive

151959 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #71 of 1704 🔗

We can’t afford to, state pension age was increased for a reason.
We get closer to affording it if we cancel HS2, the climate change act, 50% of social work activities etc.

151448 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to wendyk, 12, #72 of 1704 🔗

If you really think that about Jeremy Corbyn you have fallen into the trap of believing precisely what the mainstream media wanted you to believe. Now that you KNOW that the state controlled media has its own agenda perhaps it might, just might, give you food for thought as to whether or not he was a Marxist, Russian spy, intent on doing away with capitalism, terrorist sympathiser, secret IRA member or any of the other bollocks you were indoctrinated with.
The truth, if you study the man and his life–in the same way as Lockdown sceptics do their own research—is that he was a life long democratic socialist (moral capitalist) in the same vein as most European politicians are today and ALL politicians of post war Britain were. His ideas for government would have transformed this country forthe vast majority. But the mainstream media and its billionaire owners using the fully paid up coterie of self interested MPs (and yes, including those dedicated supporters of that mass murderer Blair who now advocates Covid testing every week!) destroyed the man.

To suggest that Corbyn could have been worse than Johnson is so ridiculous as to not be worthy of comment. Piers Corbyn, Jeremy’s brother, is one of the leading lights in the anti lockdown movement—both brothers have put freedom and democracy at the heart of their politics all their lives.

151473 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Harry hopkins, 7, #73 of 1704 🔗

I can assure you that I most definitely have not been indoctrinated . I also thought that Teflon Man Blair, the Great Trickster figure was awful ,especially when he sanctioned the invasion of Iraq: I opposed it and so did everyone else whom I knew at the time, regardless of political persuasion.

My thoughts about Jeremy Corbyn are neither ridiculous nor have I fallen into a trap; I just happen to have reached differing conclusions to yours.

And by the way, I also admire Piers Corbyn’s support for the anti-lockdown movement and I thought his arrest was a shameful disgrace.

Let’s discuss without casting aspersions at one another.

151484 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to wendyk, 1, #74 of 1704 🔗

Sorry but it’s a simple fact: there are more people commenting here who’ve been
captured by right wing media portrayals of nasty Marxist Guardanistas waiting to, I don’t know, steal all their money and give it to the poor, than lefties casting aspersions. BTW, you’re commenting on a post by HH, not RickH.

151618 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Bruno, 2, #75 of 1704 🔗

I’ve replied to HH.

151859 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to wendyk, 1, #76 of 1704 🔗

And edited out your disparaging reference to RickH.

151504 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to wendyk, 5, #77 of 1704 🔗

Sorry if I caused you any offence. But it annoys me intensely, especially when we’re in the deep sh*t that we currently are, when people say stuff like ‘it would have been worse under Corbyn’.
In my opinion (based on my detailed research and knowledge of the man) the UK would not now be in this situation. If Corbyn was anything, he was most definitely NOT a lacky to the global elite.

151617 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Harry hopkins, #78 of 1704 🔗

No offence taken Harry; I just wanted to make my point.

152175 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to wendyk, 3, #79 of 1704 🔗

My bad, but initially I believed Piers Corbyn was a nutcase, my thoughts have done a complete turnabout and I now believe him to be an honest and well-meaning man. Again the CONservative propaganda machine has discredited so many good people who they consider a threat to their existence. I see them now! My eyes are wide open!

152163 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Harry hopkins, 5, #80 of 1704 🔗

Whatever one thought of Corbyn I do believe he was a man of principle, something the CONservative government lacks. We live in the most absurd of times now where black is white and good is bad. I now hate the Conservative Party with all my being for allowing this to happen. They were the party of order and responsibility, patriotic and valued hard work. Instead these miserable curs have sold us out in the most despicable way.

151342 ▶▶▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to wendyk, 8, #81 of 1704 🔗

Lockdowns protect the salaried, public sector middle class and the comfortably retired and throw the working class and the young under the bus.

151340 ▶▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to Bart Simpson, 16, #82 of 1704 🔗

In Northumberland, we are used to locking down for the winter. The roads are often impassible and it’s bloody freezing. Sometimes there is literally just too much snow. Summer is when we recharge our batteries, eat out, go to the coast, have a holiday abroad. This year we haven’t been allowed to. Days when it barely gets light and the wind is howling will soon be upon us. The mental health impacts will be astronomical.
And our council officers requested a local lockdown for entirely political reasons.

152402 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Caroline Watson, 1, #83 of 1704 🔗

And I can imagine it will be far worse this time around.

151171 ▶▶ Mike, replying to wendyk, 13, #84 of 1704 🔗

Grand solar minimum kicking in…Nature always knows before we do. Amazing how the timings align…Economic destruction, looming poverty, food shortages and then a potentially nasty winter season leading into 2021. Theres going to be a lot of people crying out for government assistance over the next year or so.
We’ll either get a very compliant population (as their money/food/heating depends on it – eg Chinas system) or massive social unrest.

151186 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Mike, 11, #85 of 1704 🔗

I think it will be the latter. The government won’t be unable to cope with the soaring unemployment and bankruptcy figures. Of course there will still be those going “I’m alright Jack” or “People before profit” but they won’t be able to escape the reality of tax raids on their pensions and savings. Not to mention their pensions becoming worthless as real estate tumbles.

When people have nothing to lose that’s when the fight back will start.

152189 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #86 of 1704 🔗

The I’m all right Jack group will of course be the public sector who has so far escaped any backlash to the Lockdown.

152409 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #87 of 1704 🔗

Or those who have retired on generous final salary pension schemes and/or sitting on huge savings.

151198 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Mike, 10, #88 of 1704 🔗

Agreed. What an unholy mess this is, and all done in the name of what exactly? Stay safe? Stop the spread?Protect the NHS? Don’t kill granny?

Blatant emotional manipulation of a gullible, compliant and panic stricken populace, leading to? I dread to think.

The increasing use of automation, plus continuing mass migration, both illegal-seemingly sanctioned by Boris and Priti-and legal, will create a perfect storm: a growing pool of people with no work, no money and no prospects.

Recently I’ve been studying the Russian Revolution and the impoverishment,famine,feudalism and sudden eruption of popular unrest which led to the rise of the Bolsheviks and then the years of Soviet communism.

Compounded by the naive autocrat Nicholas 2nd, who wouldn’t take advice and the ill fated Duma, which lost support for its short lived experiment in democracy.

I hadn’t realised quite how ruthless and cunning Lenin was ,nor that the Bolsheviks were funded in no small part by the Kaiser’s Germany.

Conditions differ substantially here, but as you all have rightly said on this thread, it won’t take much for this to overtake the Poll Tax protests and the Brixton Riots in terms of massive unrest.

There are plenty of trouble makers to stir the pot.

151217 ▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to wendyk, 9, #89 of 1704 🔗

Here cometh the winter of discontent! The ‘elites’ are so naive, smug and patronising and seemingly have tunnel vision on this.

151272 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to wendyk, 3, #90 of 1704 🔗

There’s another thing you need to have a Russian style revolution, an overly educated population for the jobs available.
And this is the first year that 50% of school leavers went to university.

151281 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to karenovirus, 5, #91 of 1704 🔗

Good point and now that they’re all under house arrest and lumbered with punitive fees, they’ll be first onto the barricades I should think.

151288 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to wendyk, 4, #92 of 1704 🔗

More than 4, Ive seen about 20 skeins, heading to Montrose basin.
Normally seen around “tattie” holidays, so up north must be a bit colder earlier.
Also very heavy crops of brambles this year?

151334 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Nessimmersion, 2, #93 of 1704 🔗

That’s interesting; so they’re definitely on the move earlier this year. I’m sure from my amateurish observations that seasonal migration,as well as being a wondrous phenomenon for us humans to watch,must also have an innate connection to forthcoming temperature and pressure changes and anomalies which we can only guess at.

Another feature which fascinates me is that I’ve often heard the geese chattering as they fly over at night. Since they don’t have night vision, but know exactly where they’re going, I guess they must be using the stars or the earth’s magnetic
field to navigate.

So much we don’t know and I bet they could teach us a thing or two!

152043 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to wendyk, 2, #94 of 1704 🔗

Completely OT, but there was a programme a while back where GPS trackers were put on Swans migrating from Iceland to Scotland for the winter.
They went up to about 12000 ft at one point !!!!!!

151316 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to wendyk, 2, #95 of 1704 🔗

Don’t worry there will be plenty of empty offices and shops that can be converted into night shelters. Communities will extend their kindness to everybody, no one will be left behind or left out in the cold.

151594 ▶▶▶ Lyra Silvertongue, replying to Two-Six, 9, #96 of 1704 🔗

Not sure if you were being ironic there, but I’ve got to say that one of the few things that has actually given me some faith in people’s ability not to be utter ****s to each other has been the groups who got together to organise shopping and food banks and telephone befriending. Full disclosure: I’ve been volunteering for them and it’s been incredibly eye opening to understand what real poverty looks like and why lockdown is making it worse. Some of the ‘alright jacks’ would do well to come along on a delivery with me and see what life is like when you’ve been trapped in a first floor flat with a permanently disabled leg.

151633 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Lyra Silvertongue, 5, #97 of 1704 🔗

I’ve volunteered at the local food bank as well, and witnessed the scale of the hardship and deprivation. I also donate whenever I visit the local Morrison’s which is doing a great deal to support both the local food banks and the animal shelter.

Many pets have been dumped and abandoned as the madness continues.

151728 ▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to wendyk, 5, #98 of 1704 🔗

Worked at a Food Bank in the past myself when I was unemployed. I really enjoyed it. However we delivered to all sorts, homeless shelters, care homes, community centres. Some places would almost have me crying as we hung about and chatted to a few people. The older men who lived on their own whose only solace was a free lunch in the centre and a chat was the hardest for me.

151764 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 6, #99 of 1704 🔗

My unforgettable encounter was with a poor undernourished care assistant, recently bereaved,still mourning her late husband,on a zero hours contract and obliged to use public transport to reach her patients.

She was surviving-barely-on a couple of slices of toast and a cup of tea,and felt ashamed that she’d had to seek help.

I’ll never forget her.

151538 ▶▶ Lyra Silvertongue, replying to wendyk, 3, #100 of 1704 🔗

The imagery in first four paragraphs here was beautiful, even if the point of it wasn’t so edifying a prospect. In my fantasy I’ve just booked a BS-free Xmas trip to somewhere chilly but stunning with the income I should have had this year.

151129 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to 2 pence, 6, #102 of 1704 🔗

Mainly peaceful policing, nice.

151132 ▶▶▶ 2 pence, replying to karenovirus, 2, #103 of 1704 🔗


151136 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to 2 pence, 16, #104 of 1704 🔗

When the Chinese were doing this to demonstrators in Hong Kong there was worldwide condemnation, now it seems we have adopted more than the virus from China.

151259 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Nsklent, 3, #105 of 1704 🔗

That’s been my thought for a while. Totalitarian state locks down public. Rather than thinking about it, almost every other country in the world imitates totalitarian state.

152218 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to ConstantBees, 1, #106 of 1704 🔗

LOL people find it hard to believe this isn’t planned globally.

151141 ▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to 2 pence, 6, #107 of 1704 🔗

Whoa, that’s savage and I thought what was happening in Melbourne was bad. Did you notice at the end of the clip the police circled around the bloke on the ground so you couldn’t see what was going on.

151155 ▶▶▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to 2 pence, 3, #109 of 1704 🔗

Bloody hell! I remember hearing about the election, but barely saw much of the footage. That action by the police is just unbelievable, and so unnecessary.

152215 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to 2 pence, 1, #110 of 1704 🔗

Good God what thugs their police are. Notice when a victim is hit they all charge in with their batons, knees and boots. They would be so brutish if the crowd had guns!

151130 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 1, #111 of 1704 🔗

The SAGE report on excess none Covid deaths; in the Mail article they say it is from July.
Is it actually the one that was published just before, or soon into, lockdown, an update on that March-April report or a new one altogether ?

Ed. Oops 😳 , just read to the end, Toby explains all.

151851 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to karenovirus, #113 of 1704 🔗

Yeah it was a revised model.

151131 2 pence, replying to 2 pence, 3, #114 of 1704 🔗

Circa 1919 – A study by California State Board of Health on the measures adopted against the Spanish Flu.


151858 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to 2 pence, 1, #115 of 1704 🔗

Love that

151133 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 36, #116 of 1704 🔗

Students banned from the pub by law.
How do you frame a law that makes it illegal for an entire class of people to do something that is not illegal for everyone else ?

151139 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to karenovirus, 19, #117 of 1704 🔗

They need to rise up

151172 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Tom Blackburn, 28, #118 of 1704 🔗

Hopefully this will change the students from woke obsessed snowflakes into rebels once again;now they have to face real oppression not imagined slights.

151180 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 15, #119 of 1704 🔗

And hopefully this will wake them up to the genuine problems that people face and not the ones peddled by the Guardian and race baiters like Gopal.

151376 ▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 4, #120 of 1704 🔗


151150 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to karenovirus, 6, #121 of 1704 🔗

Usually that sort of ban is done in a negative way by threatening to take something away e,g your student grant or your university place.

151151 ▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 20, #122 of 1704 🔗

In an illegal, failed state you can do anything , if you’re in power.

151314 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to karenovirus, 3, #123 of 1704 🔗

Rosa Krankie is determined that Belarus should be known as a haven of freedom in comparison with her desired regime.

151380 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to karenovirus, 2, #124 of 1704 🔗

How does the pub know you are a students? You could just be a young person.
They have no right to ask for student ID cards, unless the student is stupid enough to ask for the student special drinks offer.

151382 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Silke David, 1, #125 of 1704 🔗

I can tell a student from a townie or even a College student from 500 yards, it’s just the way they are.

151148 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 27, #126 of 1704 🔗


This is probably the best critique of the disastrous blundering mockery of a so called strategy that I’ve read to date.

So, a plea : Dr John Lee should be given the opportunity, along with Professors Gupta, Heneghan and Sikora to make the lunatics listen before it’s too late.

Let them give evidence in an open forum to those MPs who are gathering behind Sir Graham Brady.

151152 ▶▶ annie, replying to wendyk, 14, #127 of 1704 🔗

Dr Lee has been talking robust sense from the start.

151161 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to annie, 3, #128 of 1704 🔗

Indeed he has, just my point, but he should have more access to potentially sensible MPs

151175 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to wendyk, 5, #129 of 1704 🔗

John Lee is superb.

151323 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to wendyk, 1, #130 of 1704 🔗

hancock said that he ‘rated’ Henaghan on The Today Programme Yesterday

151336 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to karenovirus, 5, #131 of 1704 🔗

That will make Heneghan’s day I’m sure! Gold star from Head Prefect Shuttlecock!

151443 ▶▶ John P, replying to wendyk, 5, #132 of 1704 🔗

Heneghan and Gupta have already had an audience with Johnson !

Listen to the latest episode of Planet Normal (“science v spin”)


Prof Gupta interviewed by Allison Pearson. She briefly talks about this.

Iain Duncan Smith was also interviewed by Julia Hartley-Brewer last week and is very well clued up on this. He also wants Heneghan and Gupta to be listened to:


151153 annie, replying to annie, 9, #133 of 1704 🔗

The most noble and excellent Archdeacon of Hastings, a C of E minister who actually believes in God:


151154 ▶▶ annie, replying to annie, 8, #134 of 1704 🔗

And here he us again, brought a huge lump into my throat:


151157 ▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to annie, 1, #135 of 1704 🔗

That’s a great article Annie.

151156 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #136 of 1704 🔗

I was just about to answer a query on yesterdays newsletter when we all moved on to today’s. The question was about stats on ventilator patients, the data I find on this comes from
This site needs some caution as it has mixed data from all the devolved authorities and so to get a reasonable comparison I usually focus on English NHS data;
English NHS patients on ventilators
18th Sept 108
25th Sept 227
So a 110% increase in 7 days

The hospital stats are tricky, we had got to quite low figures and so it did not take much for the figures to jump up, but we will have to see if the daily numbers continue to feed this rise or have they reached a plateau?

151224 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #137 of 1704 🔗

The reasons for being intubated and ventilated may not be due to respiratory reasons, let alone ‘The Covid’.

The increase in numbers could due to may down to varied reasons.

151255 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #138 of 1704 🔗

It would be worth getting ventilator data for the last 5 years and seeing if there is a break from the usual distribution spread.

151159 PD, replying to PD, 7, #139 of 1704 🔗

Boots the Chemist have helpfully shared this on Facebook.
This serves to underline exactly how unremarkable Covid really is.
You can’t fit a Rizla paper between the symptoms of ‘flu and ‘rona.


151254 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to PD, 4, #140 of 1704 🔗

Which means that attribution noise is way higher than signal. And add in the tautology that occurs:

Positive test, no symptoms = Covid-19
Negative test, some symptoms = Covid-19.

So how can you be deemed not to have Covid-19?

151265 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to PD, 2, #141 of 1704 🔗

Thanks, that’s interesting. I have asthma and my attacks are often preceded by a bout of sneezing. Not surprising since asthma is often an allergic reaction to something. If I sneeze a few times, I’m on the lookout for asthma to follow.

151335 ▶▶▶ davews, replying to ConstantBees, 2, #142 of 1704 🔗

Wearing a face mask causes shortness of breath! I was a bit worried the other day when I developed a tickle in my chest which developed into a fairly hoarse cough later. Disappeared after an energetic day up in London and fine now so guess it was just of those things.

151164 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 70, #143 of 1704 🔗

Went to my local M&S yesterday and this is a branch that I’ve not had any problems during the whole of this shit show. They’ve done the bare minimum and have provided great service.

Until yesterday.

On my way in, I was greeted by a masked Karen who asked me if I had a face covering, I replied: “No I’m exempt”

MK looks at me and gestures at her face.

Me: I repeat, I’m exempt

MK: Do you have proof

I showed her my sunflower lanyard which I keep in my pocket

MK: You should wear that while you’re in here.

Me: No I shan’t

MK: Well other shops will be asking for that so you have to wear it. Its the new regulations

Me: I’m fully aware of the regulations so please don’t patronise me

MK: I’m not patronising you

Me: Yes you are.

To cut the long story short, I asked to speak to the manager who was very helpful, apologised and was puzzled why Masked Karen just didn’t leave it as soon as I said I was exempt. I added that members of staff should not be behaving like those in a certain country in Europe in the 1930s requiring the followers of a certain religion to wear a distinct ID. I left without making a purchase so they lost a sale that day.

When I got home I phoned head office who were shocked at what had happened, apologised and gave me a voucher as compensation. They also said that a memo would be circulated in all branches to remind staff of the exemptions and to avoid any incidents like mine.

It really, really angers me how this crisis has laid bare the lie of “we’re all in this together” and how people with disabilities, long terms health problems and mental health issues have been thrown under the bus, all in the name of “safety”!

151170 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Bart Simpson, 30, #144 of 1704 🔗

It is noticeable since the new regulations there has been an increase in mask wearing in the outdoors.Also I sense a change in shops,both from the staff and the muzzled shoppers,to one of hostility to the unmasked.
The government will never give up its fear peddling while it can exert so much power over the populace.

151178 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 23, #145 of 1704 🔗

As one of my friends said she thinks there’s an increase in unpleasantness.

And you’re right. There are more than enough people willing to do the dirty work for them, the sort who would volunteer to be concentration camp guards or Stasi informers.

151388 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #146 of 1704 🔗

I too think people are unpleasant.
Until yday, I often worked as greeter at the door of our cafe. How many people just walk past, ignoring my friendly and loud greeting. another reason why I quit.

152429 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Silke David, 2, #147 of 1704 🔗

Yep and this crisis has exposed the unpleasantness underneath with many people.

151177 ▶▶ Albie, replying to Bart Simpson, 19, #148 of 1704 🔗

If people are attempting to enforce rules then they should be obliged to pass a test based on the Government’s own website which states you do not need to provide written proof. Much of the public doesn’t know saying “I’m exempt” is enough and should be the end of the discussion. If you refuse, it’s a different matter. We know all this of course, but as I said, most people out there still don’t.

151187 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Albie, 16, #149 of 1704 🔗

That’s what Mr Bart has said. He suspects that companies don’t give adequate training, an observation I’ve noted in my various encounters with retail and hospitality staff – many of them are not aware of the exemptions, the Equalities Act and GDPR!

When the day of reckoning comes, these people should be aware that “I was only following orders” and “I didn’t know” will not wash.

151278 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Bart Simpson, 10, #150 of 1704 🔗

There is clearly *no* training. Shop staff/management, just like the general public are deciding what the ‘rules’ are for themselves. They obviously haven’t looked at any guidance or the law, like we have. Whenever there is some new announcement by Bunter and his pals – whatever it is – the GBP think “Oh, it must have got worse” and act accordingly.

151344 ▶▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #151 of 1704 🔗

I am fairly open minded about masks (although knowing full well they do absolutely nothing). I am not so staunch about using my exemptions as some on here and do at least try using them. With an increasingly hostile Jo Public I don’t see any other option.

Yesterday wore my mask on the train/tube and apart from initial misting of my glasses which soon stopped I had no issues – including waiting 20 minutes on two stations due to disruption on the District Line. However this morning in Tesco was very different. Cold morning so after entering huge problems with glasses steaming and I found myself standing by the shelves with glasses removed just so I could see where things (and even I) were. Decided breathlessness after just 15 minutes. People just don’t seem to realise the problems but it must be blindly obvious to them. Probably will wear lanyard next week. Glad to report at the moment that Tesco are still normal with no outside queuing and full stock.

151390 ▶▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #152 of 1704 🔗

Walking through town I have looked at the signs shops display. Most do not mention Exemptions apply. It scares me off from gong in!

152425 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #153 of 1704 🔗

And many stores do over egg the pudding or make up their own rules as they go along such as those with the “no mask, no sale” diktat which is clearly in breach of the Equalities Act as it discriminates against those who can’t wear masks for physical and mental health reasons.

151412 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Albie, 4, #154 of 1704 🔗

I’m still waiting for some shopper karen to ask why I’m exempt

KV “I don’t have to say why”
SK “That’s just bloody ridiculous!”
KV “Yes isn’t it”

151210 ▶▶ JohnMac, replying to Bart Simpson, 26, #155 of 1704 🔗

“P eople with disabilities, long terms health problems and mental health issues have been thrown under the bus”.

Haven’t they just. And by the people who claim that they care the most.

151225 ▶▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to JohnMac, 24, #156 of 1704 🔗

That’s exactly it. All of these people who usually loudly signal their virtue by “caring” for other members of society are showing themselves up here for what they really are when it matters: statist, self-preservationist authoritarians.

It’s as it always was: they only “care” for as long as it takes to post some meaningless “reshare” on Facebook or Twitter and for as long as it doesn’t, really, affect them.

151227 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Now More Than Ever, 15, #157 of 1704 🔗

This has always been the problem, even before social media. Robert Tombs’ excellent history of England shows how the Labour movement was born from middle-class methodists who basically felt that the poor needed to be manipulated for their own good.

151236 ▶▶▶▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to Andrew Fish, 7, #158 of 1704 🔗

Over time, with society’s increased politicisation, this morphed into the Left’s cynical view that it was better to keep people poor so they had a ready-made source of votes.

151487 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Now More Than Ever, -4, #159 of 1704 🔗

Dismount from the hobby horse: the left simply seeks to provide a counterbalance to the power of capital by representing the power of labour.

152091 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Andrew Fish, 1, #160 of 1704 🔗

Nothing changes.

152088 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to JohnMac, 3, #161 of 1704 🔗

If a government can have infected patients admitted back into care homes they can have no compunction ignoring people with disabilities.

152386 ▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to JohnMac, 4, #162 of 1704 🔗

Even from supposed health care professionals too. Went for my flu jab yesterday. Not inside surgery mind: outside in a gazebo. The conversation went thus:

HCP: Do you have a mask?
Me: No (HCP turns to get me one)
Me: I don’t need one I’m exempt.
HCP: What’s your exemption?
Me: I don’t have to share that with you but seeing as you’re a HCP; I have asthma.
HCP: Asthmatics aren’t exempt.
Me: They are as far as I’m concerned. [steely stare from me convinces HCP to just give me the jab to get rid of me].

152463 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to The Filthy Engineer, 3, #163 of 1704 🔗

Of course, we’re exempt. It’s a respiratory condition. No way I’m getting a flu jab. Haven’t had one in decades. No flu either. And if anyone says I’m a sample of one, well, I’m just going in with the zeitgeist.

152536 ▶▶▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to ConstantBees, 1, #164 of 1704 🔗

I completely understand your sentiments about the flu jab. I’m not convinced about its efficacy either if I’m honest. I take my jab because immediate family members are potentially vulnerable.

152414 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to JohnMac, 2, #165 of 1704 🔗

Exactly. And also those who constantly go “Be Kind” on antisocial media as well.

152719 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to JohnMac, 2, #166 of 1704 🔗

Agree. Many people in this crisis have exposed themselves to be who they truly are – its like the Picture of Dorian Gray, their caring persona hides an ugly authoritarian face.

151275 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #167 of 1704 🔗

I’m off to bag me some vouchers then thanks!

Seriously, perfectly handled I don’t think you coukd have done any better. Well done.

152416 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Basics, 1, #168 of 1704 🔗

Thanks. Mr Bart did say that he could see why I phoned head office even after the apology from the manager.

151338 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #169 of 1704 🔗

‘Tyranny hides behind the alibi of safety’. Can’t remember who quoted this, but very apt.

151420 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Nsklent, 5, #170 of 1704 🔗

Always fear the leader who imposes on you for your own good. This will always lead to tyranny ( or something like that)
Isiah Berlin.

152421 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nsklent, 1, #171 of 1704 🔗

Good one. Can’t remember who said it, was it C.S. Lewis?

151384 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #172 of 1704 🔗

Good for you for taking the trouble
1 to ask for the manager
2 to phone head office
Most people would not bother, but we need to make a stand. Otherwise we are sheep, too (the black ones).

152434 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Silke David, 2, #173 of 1704 🔗

Thanks. Agree, we need to make a stand. I’ve lost count of how many letters I’ve written and its sad how good customer service and treating people with respect & dignity has has gone out of the window, all in the name of “safety”

151405 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #174 of 1704 🔗

My convenience store owner was embarrassed to ask to wear a mask again for the first time since I told him I was exempt and don’t need to tell him why, all fairly good natured.
I returned to the store and showed him the lawhnotfiction pdf and then sent it to his phone.

I told him that I was surprised that his Trade Association or The Grocer (trade press) had not issued him advice.

152437 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to karenovirus, 2, #175 of 1704 🔗

Many small shops are doing the bare minimum and that’s why I try to support them whenever I can. Trouble is where I live has a dearth of independents.

151426 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #176 of 1704 🔗

Congratulations on taking such a stand and pursuing the matter. I admire your resolve. I haven’t encountered any trouble as yet, but I do wear my badge and usually ask a question or 2 whenever I enter a shop.

I suspect that many employers are doing this on the cheap and providing the absolute bare minimum in terms of training and relevant information.

There are many petty gauleiter types around who are only to pleased to be able to wield some petty power.

This nonsense is so divisive and only adds to all the endless aggravation and control creep.

152440 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to wendyk, 1, #177 of 1704 🔗

That’s the appalling thing – the lack or absence of training, it makes you wonder if these companies have a death wish.

There are many petty gauleiter types around who are only to pleased to be able to wield some petty power.

Isn’t it just? I know certain people who would actively become gauleiters if they were allowed to.

151440 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #178 of 1704 🔗

No problems in my local PO and Building Society though was the only one in both. Lots of muzzles in street and of course (sighs) people by themselves in cars.

152420 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to arfurmo, #179 of 1704 🔗

Good for you, the odd thing was I went to Morrisons and the Co-Op instead and has no issues with both shops.

152211 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #180 of 1704 🔗

I believe M and S officially partner with Sunflower Hidden Disabilities. Not that you have to wear the lanyard.
They may be better on understanding exemption, than many other stores (though this assistant clearly wasn’t)

152419 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Kevin 2, #181 of 1704 🔗

I didn’t know that. I was aware of Tesco, Morrisons and Sainsbury’s being partners with the Hidden Disabilities but if M&S are as well then definitely there was no excuse for that staff member not to be aware.

152461 ▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #182 of 1704 🔗

I can’t find the list of officially partnered supermarkets, but if you look on this link and scroll down the alphabetical list of stores that recognise the Sunflower, you will see hundreds of M and S stores, possibly the one that is in your location.


151167 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #183 of 1704 🔗

So the false positive issue has been ‘debunked’? I think they have successfully neutralised it, anyway. In fact, the people who raised it are now feeling chastened, and no commentator like JHB will touch it again. Personally, having told various friends about it, I am now imagining them listening to Radio 4 and writing me off as a pathetic midwit – I have now shot that particular fox and can’t credibly raise it again. Even if they don’t understand the issues involved, they understand the general tenor of a ‘debunking’.

While the original ‘FPR = 90% of positive results are false’ concept was too complex for Matt Hancock to grasp, it was understandable by PPE graduates. But the debunking has now complexified it beyond the understanding of most people, and at any rate has shaved off some of the excess falseness through pure assertion and guesswork. The pro-lockdown people are feeling vindicated and are now free to continue reading the runes of ‘cases’ unimpeded. Future questioning of their methods has been headed off. There’s got to be a lesson in there, somewhere.

I hadn’t been aware that most of the people queuing up for tests had symptoms, anyway. If true, those symptoms can’t be too bad can they? I think that most of them are queuing up out of curiosity, a sense of duty and – I strongly suspect – being part of something like Lady Di’s funeral. And they bring along their brood. Do they get tested, too? And the symptoms? Obviously they can be colds, or even psychosomatic.

What people should be asking is: supposing the virus was completely gone. Could false positives – that no one knows the true proportion of – produce a spurious ‘spike’ or ‘surge’? Of course. And even if it is pre-filtered by people showing cold symptoms, this would still be true. This could be modelled – an actual good use for a model.

But I fear that any such analysis is now void. The Covid statisticians have won the day, and no one will question their methods again.

151184 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Barney McGrew, 10, #184 of 1704 🔗

I’ve said this before, but Dido Harding herself gave evidence to the Select Committee that her own team’s surveys found that 25% of those questioned at testing centres admitted they had not had symptoms and just wanted reassurance. Strange that so many would openly admit to this – surely many, many more wouldn’t.

151248 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Charlie Blue, 3, #185 of 1704 🔗

…or could be suffering from psychosomatic symptoms.

151197 ▶▶ Dan72, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #186 of 1704 🔗

I don’t understand this counter argument that says it’s ok as most people getting tested have symptoms. If the test is that accurate, then surely it tells us that at least 97% of people tested (based on the actual results) don’t have the rona and are in danger of being a false positive?

151276 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Dan72, 2, #187 of 1704 🔗

I think I understand what you’re saying. If we did a round of testing with 100,000 people, it might throw up, say 3,000 positives, 2,000 of which were false – and it would, of course, miss some genuine positives (say 30% of them).

Then if we eliminated the people who came up positive, and submitted the remaining 97,000 people to a second round of testing, it would throw up almost 2,000 positives, nearly *all* of which were false.

So the ‘debunkers’ are in a paradoxical bind, where they want to show that self-selection makes the testing more accurate, but it can then be shown that self-selection (perhaps based on previous test results) could make the result less accurate.

Their whole premise is based on self-selection, by ordinary people who are supposedly showing symptoms but feel up to queuing outdoors for a test – so the test results are going to be seasonal and weather-related in more than one way. Or they are relying on sick people driving to a drive-in testing station. Is that, er, a responsible thing to do?

151211 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Barney McGrew, 7, #188 of 1704 🔗

Belgium can’t be that convinced if they’ve stopped using it because of it’s inherent inaccuracy. And what about the label on the machine itself that says not to use it for diagnosis?

151274 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #189 of 1704 🔗

Ideally this could all be tested by cross checking;
Unfortunately alternative testing methods are costly and time consuming.
The other cross check is to compare hospital data and death data with +ve test results. We already have figures for this and we can see that hospital cases and deaths are an extremely small number so that well over 90% of +ve test results are either false, asymptomatic or very mild – does it matter which?

151331 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #190 of 1704 🔗

Any evidence that the False Positive Rate is wrong other than assertion?
There have been authoritative artivles posted here on FPR which I have not seen any counter arguments against.
Example – you say its not 90%, so what is it then and show your workings.
Toby has featured various writers giving examles of what it is at 0.8% etc, so at the very least Id expect a decent explanation of why Prof Heneghan etc are completely wrong.
I did notice Toby et al were amused at an attempted rebuttal in the Huff Post which actually agreed with them yesterday.

151508 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Nessimmersion, 2, #191 of 1704 🔗

Exactly. Have we all forgotten the vox pops in test site car parks, where all the family turned out to get tested, because one primary school child had been sent home with a sniffle, and ordered to get a test? Cue Hancock, piously berating them for being wrongly tested as non eligible! And the woman who traipsed her sick child on a 204 mile round trip to get a test, probably the same one the operatives had to find a false Scottish postcode for, so as to be allowed to test them? On which completely anecdotal evidence I believe the majority of Pillar 2 testing, i.e. more than 50%, has been carried out on people without symptoms.

151953 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Barney McGrew, #192 of 1704 🔗

It’s not been debunked. Its been successfully countered with some arguments. So it just means the debate is moving front and centre. Hopefully it stays there and it is resolved because its absolutely crucial to whole edifice of these restrictions via cases.

So while the whole debunking is based on 20% of those tested actual being symptomatic of CV-19, that’s a huge assumption. My brother na dsister work at a pub where a staff member got tested positive. Nobody else had a + results after they all (well around 10% just said no chance) got tested. And none had symptoms. So that’s one case and around 30 asymptomatic staff getting tested as a result due to the process.

So they’d need to prove that 20%. My observational study above tells me different. I also posted this yesterday :

That Huff article on False Positives. It really is garbage or am I missing something:

““But if you turn up to a testing centre you’re already thinking: ‘I might have Covid’ and if you turn up with a cough and a fever then it’s probably quite a high probability that you have Covid.”

The percentage of positive results to tests is around 5% at best, much lower in August. So even if these people are symptomatic, they have something else, like cold or mild flu. They clearly a higher probability of not having CV-19 despite their plague like coughing.

They want us to believe that the FPR is a red herring because it hides the fact that 80% specificity means 1 in 5 are not picked up as positive. False Negatives. So why are people complaining?

This is really bedwetter territory. Because so what if they test negative? Are you going to just isolate people anyway just with symptoms and abandon testing? So if you want to use PCR tests, live with it.

As regards False Positives, you are isolating people. The whole purpose of the test. And you are basing Lockdown Mark II on the number of positives nationally. So you better get it right. And you can’t, because its fundamentally flawed.

And, what about Zero Covid. Evenif you got to a zero cases day (FPR means that’s next to impossible), wouldn’t your False Negatives mean the virus is still out there? So Zero Covid is absolutely insane. And I ain’t a scientist.

I am sure I have missed something here. Please help. Because its driving me insane thinking anyone would read that article and think that means the FPR is unimportant

151174 Mark H, replying to Mark H, 77, #193 of 1704 🔗

As of yesterday, Friday, a new Scottish law was brought in. This law makes it illegal to welcome guests into your private dwelling place, aka, your home.

The act of “mingling” is also illegal if the group mingling is greater than 6 and involves more than 2 households. Apparently, in the UK, the last time we had a law against mingling was in the 14th century.

Let’s imagine a friend has lost a family member to a disease or illness. Like cancer, for example, which claims the lives of 25 times more people per day than CV19. What’s your first response to this? To go and visit them, to offer comfort and support? Illegal.

You can, however, visit them in their garden. Should they live in a house with a garden. But, of course, you’re not allowed to give them a hug, sit close to them, hold their hand, provide the ingrained human responses that we recognise as comforting.

This imaginary friend’s relative will have died alone in hospital, the only other humans they’ll have seen will have been the masked nurses and doctors, unable to have their loved ones around them as they lost their battle with cancer. And at their funeral, only 20 people can attend and these must not under any circumstances have any physical contact with each other. No hugs, no arms around shoulders, no attempts to offer comfort, all faces masked as noses and eyes stream.

Anything that we once instinctively would have done in a time of loss and emotional devastation is against the law.

And after the funeral, it’s illegal to go with the grieving family members to their home to offer assistance and support. They must learn to cope alone, in their “bubble”.

Thousands of years of learned and experienced human behaviour is now illegal. Natural human responses are against the law.

The longer these statutory instruments – undemocratically imposed by government – continue, the more scars society will have to bear. The emotional and mental cost is virtually incalculable.

I’ve been told, in pious terms, that to oppose these laws, disingenuously referred to as “guidelines”, is immoral. To obey the law is the only morality that matters, I’m told.

Which would infer that laws, in and of themselves, are inherently moral. This claim is not supported by history. I’ve to believe that laws somehow shape morality and that only through government instrument human morality was created and defined.

When people are willing to trade liberty for safety, they deserve neither. When we need to check with the government to find out what activities inherently linked with being a human we’re allowed to undertake, we have a dystopia.

When our morality is somehow linked to a government statutory instrument, with no consideration given to what it means to be a human being, then we have no morality. With have diktats. And history should have taught us the world we’ll end up with.

151189 ▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to Mark H, 38, #194 of 1704 🔗

I believe there is a higher law we are called to obey that of acting like a decent human being. I felt queasy when I read of people actually boasting they hadn’t visited sick or dying relatives at home in order to adhere to lockdown laws.

151207 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 25, #195 of 1704 🔗

Same here. I felt uneasy when someone I know actually boasted that she never hugged her parents when she went home during lockdown. Its chilling that many people would simply forgo what it means to be human in order to observe laws and regulations.

151241 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 6, #196 of 1704 🔗

Agreed the right of human contact and association should be sacrosanct, it is repugnant and despicable that any of our leaders think that they can do this.
The human rights act says;
Article 11: Freedom of assembly and association1. Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and to freedom of association with others, including the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.
2. No restrictions shall be placed on the exercise of these rights other than such as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of

I guess they would say it is being done for reasons of health

151221 ▶▶ Stephanos, replying to Mark H, 4, #197 of 1704 🔗

I have just copied this comment to my MP, Mr. Greg Smith, who has not said whether he would support Sir Graham Brady.

151242 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Mark H, 6, #198 of 1704 🔗

Reminds me of the AIDS scare when movies where made trying to show you couldn’t catch HIV by shaking hands, hugging, even sharing a sandwich.

Plus ça change.

151328 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Mark H, 15, #199 of 1704 🔗

To quote St Augustine, an unjust law is not a law. I think a stark but effective comparison made to such remarks about obeying laws was that the people who hid Anne Frank were breaking the law, those that sought to kill her were following the law. Diktats are not laws.

151347 ▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to Mark H, 3, #200 of 1704 🔗

In the North East we are not allowed to visit other households in their gardens either.

151611 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Mark H, 11, #201 of 1704 🔗


151181 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 18, #203 of 1704 🔗

I know that this quote by Dolores Ibarruri (The passion flower) from the Spanish civil war will not go well with a lot of fellow sceptics as she was a prominent communist on the Republican side, but nobody could argue with this quote of her’s

151196 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Fingerache Philip., 7, #204 of 1704 🔗

In Barcelona in the old town there is a small square with only two entrances. It’s hard to find. In the square on a wall is an large black door set in stone. The stone is decayed and in a bad state. Large chunks have come off.

On the door is written: Es Mejor Morir En Los Pies Que Vivir En Las Rodillas

I asked my friend at the time what this was about and why was the stone in such disrepair. Was it neglect? Pollution?

“It’s because of all the bullet holes”, he said.

“This is where Franco executed people”

151456 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #205 of 1704 🔗

No pasaran!

151477 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to wendyk, 1, #206 of 1704 🔗


151183 Richard Pinch, replying to Richard Pinch, 3, #207 of 1704 🔗

I regret to say that the “Covid 19 Assembly” rather blew their chances of getting me to help them my explaining to me that the sort of help they wanted was

I would be really interested if you could help explain why perhaps Ferguson’s model shouldn’t be trusted.

I don’t think you get professional scientists to help by telling them what answers you want them to give.

151185 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Richard Pinch, 7, #208 of 1704 🔗

No,you give them a big research grant and they will give you any answer you want

151190 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #209 of 1704 🔗

Since that remark is in response to a comment of mine, I’ll just say that it isn’t true.

151201 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Richard Pinch, 4, #210 of 1704 🔗

I forgot to add a nice job or a load of shares
Science in this country has been totally corrupted and we are reaping the whirlwind.I wasn’t questioning your integrity as you are here,so may be one of the good ones

151219 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Richard Pinch, 4, #211 of 1704 🔗

You are fortunate to have encountered no dishonest or corrupt people in your professional life. Would that were true of the building game. Planning (where the stakes are highest) is the worst.

151231 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #212 of 1704 🔗

There are problems in science, and there is bad behaviour by scientists, and it would be foolish to deny it. I’m certainly not saying I have not encountered those things, but in my experience they’re the exception not the rule.

151245 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ajb, replying to Richard Pinch, 4, #213 of 1704 🔗

I think an associated problem, which is sometimes related to funding, is that in academia there are fewer and fewer of what might be termed ‘polymaths’, and the tendency for people as they continue studying is to find out more and more about less and less, and since many of the obvious topics have already been covered, the focus for, say, PhDs becomes more obscure. Very few academics are able to see a bigger picture than their special interest – and if someone is keen to fund their research, it must be really important, mustn’t it?
What we need are more “lads (or lassies) o’ pairts” to see the whole picture.

151271 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ LS99, replying to Ajb, #214 of 1704 🔗


151317 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Ajb, 2, #215 of 1704 🔗

This has been the tendency of science for a long time, and it isn’t helped by the pressure to publish, and certain tactical aspects of REF assessment and funding — inter-disciplinary research usually gets under-rated. As a mathematician, I spent the first half of my career doing pure research, which I enjoyed, and the second half using mathematics in a wide range of real-life problems, which I enjoyed just as much. In the third half of my career, I can dabble in all sorts of things, like modelling, but also have a special interest in Knowledge Exchange.

151264 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ LS99, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #216 of 1704 🔗

“Not even trying: The corruption of real science” by Bruce Charlton is worth a read.

151277 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #217 of 1704 🔗

The irreproducability of much medical research is certainly an issue, as highlighted by Ioannidis.

151308 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 2, #218 of 1704 🔗

I would also recommend Science Fictions by Stuart Ritchie. Yes, there are reasons to be pessimistic in some areas. Reproducibility is getting problematic, as is the control of commercial funders over research results. But they are, I believe, fixable. I’m not ready to give up yet!

151239 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #219 of 1704 🔗

The key is in the “perhaps”.

As a default you don’t trust models. Not if they feed into any real world implications. You use them to bound testing or to give you some idea of risk but only after validating them and verifying them.

Otherwise they are just wild hypothetical guesses and a waste of time.

Ferguson’s model was neither validated or verified as demonstrated very aptly by Sue Denim. This is a process that all software and systems go through, in many fields and applications. It is a tried and tested method of minimising assumptions and shaking out what your applications actually do.

Because in the end a lot of these applications, that start as simulations/emulations, are built to try and not kill people.

So that fact that Ferguson and the like have a hypothetical model is fine, as long as it stays in the hypothetical field and does not enter into any policy making. The only way it may is after validation and verification.

Which wasn’t done.

It isn’t a matter of repetition either. It’s a matter of examining the logic and testing from the unit up to the system (end to end) level that the model produces results bounded within a range and deterministic where applicable.

If the Ferguson approach was used on cars, aeroplanes, phones, there would be an outcry. Lives are being put at risk! Yet when it comes to policy – no problem.

Same thing with climate change models – they are seemingly exempt from the Scientific Method, logic and the Engineering Process

151252 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to mhcp, -1, #220 of 1704 🔗

I’m not saying I support Prof. Ferguson’s model — I haven’t had the opportunity to study it in detail. It might well be that if I were to put in that effort I would indeed agree with Sue Denim ( with whom I have had interesting discussion courtesy of these comments columns), and it might not. But there’s no attraction to me in putting in that work on behalf of this group if, as seems likely, any assessment I might make would only be acceptable if they conformed to some pre-existing conclusion. And there’s even less attraction to me in working on behalf of a group that seems predisposed to believe that all models are at best useless, when I believe that mathematical modelling and models are useful tools capable of generating real value when used correctly.

If this group had said something like “We believe that modelling has been abused and would like an independent assessment of whether the Ferguson model was fit for the purpose for which it was used” then I would at least have considered taking it further. But I must decline to work with a group that seems to want me to violate my own professional code by working on a question with a pre-determined answer.

151267 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #221 of 1704 🔗

I agree with you on that. I think the real problem was that Ferguson’s model was taken to be as meaningful as say a stress model on a bridge when it wasn’t.

The former has high levels of uncertainty and more importantly untested code. The stress model is based on years of principles and evidence and gets independently reviewed. Even then it is used only as a guide and margin/reality still has to be considered.

The fault however lies with both Ferguson and the politicians. Ferguson should have the ethics to realise he is extrapolating way beyond the bounds of his argument into the real world. The politicians should have known to ask engineers and auditors for their take.

151293 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to mhcp, #222 of 1704 🔗

I think you’re leaving out the role of SAGE. They adopted the 80%/510,000 figure as a Reasonable Worst Case. They surely knew what they were doing, and I don’t think any of them were unaware of what the uncertainties involved in modelling are: indeed at least one member of SAGE is a professor of mathematical biology who herself has at least an equal expertise in that subject. (I do not speak for her and have no idea what her comments may have been on the subject). And it wasn’t just Ferguson’s multi-agent model: simple SIR gives you the same qualitative answers to the simple do-nothing question.

It is certainly a mistake to confuse a RWC with a prediction, and another mistake to confuse an estimate for one, hypothetical, situation with the outcome of the completely different real-life scenario — although both of those mistakes are regularly made and enthusiastically propagated, not least by some contributors to these columns. I don’t know why.

151357 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #223 of 1704 🔗

You’ve rightly pointed out before that advisors advice, ministers decide. This is clearly true and the great majority of the blame for the situation lies with the government rather than with SAGE in general or Ferguson personally. Where Ferguson does deserve blame is that he actively sought publicity for his domesday reasonable worst case scenario figure, so that it was firmly embedded in the minds of the population, the press and the government. This made holding steady in the Sweden herd immunity course far harder than it would have been. And not only did Ferguson seek publicity in March, but he’s still doing it and using his original results to retrospectively justify the policy and justify a continuation of the policy.

He was asked for advice and he gave it. That should have been that and the government should have been left to make their decisions based on the information available. But it wasn’t left at that because Ferguson allowed himself the luxury of making his name by kicking off project fear.

151369 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #224 of 1704 🔗

As I’ve said a simple SIR gives you the same answers if you make certain assumptions based on data that has been reported. It’s even in Ferguson’s paper. However the quality of that data and the propagation of errors is downplayed.

A simple SIR model will only reflect the quality of the inputs. If they aren’t good, if there are attribution errors for Covid-19, as we have seen, for example, then the results will have very large uncertainties.

And this is something that could be seen straight away, because it occurs all the time in industry and science. GIGO. The rush to attribute Covid to a range of respiratory issues, not looking for other causes or looking at context. The list goes on

Also with regards to SAGE, someone being a professor in mathematical biology is not going to change the basis of the Scientific Method. In fact SAGE should have had industrial people with real-life experience rather than academics

152271 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to mhcp, #225 of 1704 🔗

SAGE should have had industrial people with real-life experience rather than academics

You mean people like Demis Hassabis, cofounder of DeepMind? Mike Short, VP of Telefonica?

Why would industrial scientists automatically be better than academics? I’m a little inclined to wonder whether you’ve ever worked with either sort.

someone being a professor in mathematical biology is not going to change the basis of the Scientific Method

No, and being an industrial rather than an academic scientist doesn’t change it either. But it does mean that she is rather more likely than the average person commenting here to understand how mathematical models work and what they can and cannot be used for, which was my point.

151279 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Richard Pinch, -1, #226 of 1704 🔗

If the Ferguson approach was used on cars, aeroplanes, phones, there would be an outcry.

Well, it’s the SAGE approach and Ferguson’s model. But the situation is the the same. With cars, planes etc, the do-nothing option is largely safe. Don’t introduce a new model or new technology, and things will carry on pretty much as before. You also have plenty of time. The worst that can happen is that a rival enterprise completes their testing first and grabs the market, and if they’re doing their due diligence too, they should take pretty m uch the same time over it.

In February, we had no time. The decisions had to be taken then and there, and the do-nothing option, although on the table, was by far from obviously largely safe. I would defend using, say, a simple SIR model to give an estimate for the effect of do-nothing based only on the parameters need for such a simple model, namely pre-existing immunity, R0 and infection period. Such models have been used for nearly a hundred years, and they are known to give reasonable fit with previous epidemics. The result of that model would have been the famous 510,000 figure, near enough, and the point is that the numerical value is less important than the policy outcome, which is the simple answer: catastrophe.

But if you want to advocate against using models at all, then I think it reasonable to ask what you would have done instead. The chair of SAGE turns to you and asks “What happens if we do nothing?” What tools and techniques would you use to give that answer?

151339 ▶▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Richard Pinch, 4, #227 of 1704 🔗

No Richard, catastophe was not on the cards at all. And even if so the level headed thing to do was increase hospital contingency.

The first thing that should have happened when that figure came out, even if using a simple SIR model, would be to question the use of the model in the first place.

Before using a model you need to make sure your data is relevant, has been obtained with sufficiently low noise to match the expected variations. The data is key not the model.

I’ve seen this happen on space missions where vibration requirements have been applied causing years of extra work to be done on components when the problem was the original levels were theoretical. The actual launch vibrations were a third of the values.

The act of good science is to fall onto the method, however unpopular that is with people invested in their hypothetical ideas.

So to answer again, we should have looked at the uncertainty in the data, looked at previous flu hotspot behaviour, not assumed it was all due to one cause because influential virologists and epidemiologists wanted it to be the case.

Not done a mad panic and simply increased contingency and procedures in the NHS. Fever wards and hospitals, isolation of patients with similar underlying symptoms. More nurses and rotated shifts. Looked after the healthcare workers with more rest. Used non-drug treatments – vitamins, rest. And where appropriate used things like Hydroxochloriquine.

And above all else, don’t change the procedures for reporting, autopsies and all that. Don’t make it much easier to misattribute and hence produce false figures that lead to panic.

We should have reinforced washing your hands and maybe, just maybe restricted crowded rooms, trains to 100 people. But even that probably not.

What we have seen is a horrible black comedy of idiocy, cruelty and sadism. All to preserve the noble hypothesis about the virus.

Reminds me of the Irish Civil War – a war caused by differences in ideas versus the reality of the situation.

151345 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to mhcp, 1, #228 of 1704 🔗

But also just to add there are other models to consider. There’s the one that says when you give petty tyrants power they will not relinquish it. There’s the model of requirements and mission creep that happens without clear end goals.

There’s the mode of how humans react to fear and there’s the well established principle of the Road To Hell Is Paved With Good Intentions.

There’s also the model that centralised overbeaing control of society by diktat does not lead to a prosperous and successful society. That the collective behaviour and individual decisions of a freer society contribute more good than one under technological control.

You see life is not just about medical things or scientific models in one field.

151378 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to mhcp, -3, #229 of 1704 🔗

catast[r]ophe was not on the cards at all

And you know that how, exactly? The citizens of Manaus and Guyaquil might disagree with you. (BTW, “Sweden” is not the answer here — we’re talking about the “do-nothing” scenario. Sweden did quite a lot. Manaus and Guayaquil are much more like “do-nothing”)

You don’t explain what process you would have applied, given the data available at, say, SAGE 11, to formulate your advice. You say we should have looked at this or that, but not how you would take that look forward to a recommendation.

Before using a model you need to make sure your data is relevant, has been obtained with sufficiently low noise to match the expected variations. The data is key not the model.

So at SAGE 11, you would probably have said the data was too uncertain. I disagree, as it happens, since an advantage of simple models is that you can calibrate exactly how robust their outputs are to changes in the input paramaters. But let’s assume that the data was insufficiently certain even to distinguish between “tolerable” and “intolerable” as the outcomes. Now what? Throw up your hands and say nothing?

151413 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Richard Pinch, 4, #230 of 1704 🔗

Manaus has not had a catastrophe Richard. I’ve been through this with you time and time again. The figures do not add up when compared against Sweden and the UK for example.

With the way that Covid is attributed and the looseness of the range of symptoms, coupled with the WHO’s guidance you the uncertainty in the actual cause of death is high. So you are measuring deaths that occur anyway but say they are Covid.

The same has happened in Ireland which has had to change its figures due to the work of people liek Dolores Cahill. Here we saw how Carl Henegan’s work has reduced figures and there is more and more coming out.

But you could see that straight away in the way that figures were attributed and the lack of falsifiabilty in the premise. In other words, basic Scientific Method.

You keep saying “Do nothing” like it’s a bad thing?

It’s the Null Hypothesis. Yes you practically do nothing. That is what the reality is. Doing something based on uncertain data has a high chance of causing ruin, like it is doing. How many times do we have to learn that lesson, the lesson of history?

As I’ve said you do increase contingency where it counts and in a tried and tested manner. Which would be increased resources to the NHS with proper isolation of patients and attention to not overwork staff.

151439 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to mhcp, #231 of 1704 🔗

Yes we have discussed this before, and I’m still puzzled as to why you say what you say. Manaus did have a catastrophe. Sweden is not an example of “do-nothing”. In my view, in this particular case, “do nothing” would indeed have been a Bad Thing. You disagree, and that’s your privilege. I’ve explained why I think it was, but I have yet to hear your reasons for thinking that “Do nothing” would not have been a disaster. You seem to suggest that, and then start describing all the things you could do. But then that’s not the “do-nothing” scenario, is it?

As far as i can tell, your arguments for the “Do nothing” scenario are

  • It’s the Null Hypothesis
  • Many of the things you could do would be worse than doing nothing
  • Sweden didn’t do too badly
  • Places that did do-nothing didn’t have disasters really

The first is true but irrelevant; the second is tautologically true; the third is irrelevant; and the fourth appears to fly in the face of the evidence. But what we have yet to hear is

  • If the UK government had decided to do nothing, the consequences would have been …

How, exactly, would you finish that sentence? Give us your estimate for the number of cases, the number of deaths, the number of ICU beds, the economic losses, and all those other things that we need to have a handle on before we can have confidence in statements like “catastrophe was not on the cards”. Please?

151533 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Richard Pinch, #232 of 1704 🔗

Manaus had a lot of reported deaths to Covid but was it actually Covid or the way it was attributed? How much was second and teritiary effects to the system responding to the perception of something being wrong?

You can make a “catastrophe” out of anything if you set certain rules about what gets to be in your set of data. But when you start comparing like for like you see descrepancies which you may start to attribute to other differences. However logic would dictate you may have a problem with your initial premise. Manaus shows that.


1) It’s the Null Hypothesis – yes – the system has already got contingency to deal with excess death numbers up to 100,000 and possibly more. And that’s without any compensatory effects that can occur reflexively. You can see this in the All-Cause Mortality Rate for years of data.

To aid that you may introduce more contingency to the key parts of the system namely the health service. But the key is that a multi-component system with a legacy of surviving will continue to survive.

The issue here is that you believe that Covid is causing a lot of deaths rather than there being large scale misattribution and inflated numbers.

The IFR was speculated to be 0.9. That’s almost an order of magntiude greater than typical flus. And much much greater than SARS or MERS which have form for being wildly over-estimated. That should have given pause enough to really ask “Is this actually the cause?”

2) Many things you could do would be worse than what you are doing – that’s the nature of complex systems and is proven time and time again. Sometimes the best course of action is to just stand there. So it doesn’t matter if it’s a tautology

3) It is not irrelevant that Sweden didn’t do too badly because Sweden adopted a softly softly approach EVEN WITH inflated figures for who had Covid. Saying that Sweden is irrelevant is ignoring evidence that dispels that “catastrophe” narrative you are spinning about Manaus. Manaus’ data applied to the UK would mean 123,000 deaths; to Sweden 18,800. Yet Sweden and the UK both appear to have reduced that by two thirds with radically different policies.

So the issue is either that the policies are irrelevant to viral propagation and we should have adopted Sweden’s approach? Or that there is something getting mixed in with the actual deaths, meaning that they are lower and we really shouldn’t have adopted any policies.

4) Places that did nothing had reported deaths but how many were actually Covid-19 as the symptoms are spread over a wide range, attribution is loose and almost-all-encompassing? The exact opposite


If the UK government had decided to do nothing the overall deaths would be 5000 +/- 1000 from Covid-19, provided that Covid was properly attributed.

I think that will be an overestimate.

The deaths we are seeing are as much a result of measures trying to anticipate a foe that is no more deadly than others that we face without taking any measures at all (i.e. the flu).

You are trying to argue against the fatality rate of the flu and our lax attitude to it. The flu that killed over 50,000 people two years ago when we all spread it around like we do.

151597 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to mhcp, -4, #233 of 1704 🔗

provided that Covid was properly attributed.

Ah, the no true Scotsman fallacy. We’ll never know, of course, since the do-nothing policy was never implemented. But the implication of your estimate (I won’t say prediction) of 5,000 deaths on do-nothing, suggests that either lockdown actually caused ten times as many Covid deaths as do-nothing would have done, which seems implausible to say the least, or if not, then at least 90% of Covid deaths are mis-attributed in the UK, and most other countries.

So at this point, I’m going to say, thanks for providing your estimates, and my reaction is that I find them at least as unconvincing as you do mine.

151631 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #234 of 1704 🔗

Richard you can think what you like but saying that I’m using the “No True Scotsman fallacy” shows you have a weak argument. If I want to know how many people die to colon cancer there are ways to get that data with reasonable certainty.
Is that a “No True Scotsman fallacy”?

Of course not. I’m not trying to go down into infinite detail. Simply look at the wide range of Covid-19 symptoms and you decide if you sort the wheat from the chaff.

If we have one of two unique symptoms with a measurable progression of the disease and that’s followed up with autopsies we can clear the mud and get a better picture.

We don’t have that so my point still stands.

151648 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to mhcp, #235 of 1704 🔗

No, the “No True Scotsman” fallacy consists of reassigning data that doesn’t suit your case into some other category. It seems to me that this is what you want to do in order to support your case, and you want to do it with figures from all over the world.

152199 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to mhcp, #236 of 1704 🔗

And where does that number come from?

151544 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Richard Pinch, #237 of 1704 🔗

Nothing wrong with an SIR model to help influence thinking, provided the inputs are trustworthy and it’s not the only foundation for your argument. What should “S” have been in this case?

151629 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Tee Ell, #238 of 1704 🔗

A good question. Another valuable part of the modelling process is that it allows you to give some sort of answer to this sort of question. If we go by the figures from Guayaquil of final infection numbers around 33% then that would be consistent a pre-existing immunity level of around 50%. But it’s also consistent with a number of other things, such as heterogeneous spreading.

As I’ve said before, the Reasonable Worst Case scenario was based on no pre-existing immunity.

151721 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #239 of 1704 🔗

I just wish they had mediated that “Reasonable Worst Case” scenario by also presenting the “middle road” scenario – and basing policy on that while also balancing it by analysing it in the context of the potential adverse impacts of taking action.

I’m aware of modellers who are too far removed from the biology thinking zero was a reasonable starting assumption, but I’m not aware of virologists who felt the same. That’s anecdotal though obviously, I haven’t done any surveys or anything ha.

152198 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Tee Ell, #240 of 1704 🔗

I agree that presenting a Reasonable Worst Case as a prediction is unsatisfactory.

151283 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Richard Pinch, 3, #241 of 1704 🔗

You need to bear in mind that the group is an activist group and so is unlikely to have a dispassionate motive. Your principles are not wrong at all. If you were to look into the mathematics at work in the code and find that they were perfectly sound, then of course it would be wrong to say otherwise.

Personally, I’d be curious to know the answer to the question either way, but I’m not altogether sure that the answer makes very much difference. I suspect that the problem with the model lies more with the starting assumptions and the inputs that with the basic maths. 1+3=4 is sound maths, but if you mistakenly input “2” instead of “1” your answer will be wrong, however sound your formula is.

151299 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to matt, 1, #242 of 1704 🔗

Even an activist group may find that transparently working with independent experts adds to their credibility. If they were able to say that they had commissioned an independent study from an independent scientist with no commitment to their cause and agreed to publish the study irrespective of its results, it would add tremendously to the weight of a conclusion that did support their cause. And if they are not confident that an independent study would support their cause, then that means they are not confident in the validity of their arguments, which would constitute another disincentive to work with them.

151327 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #243 of 1704 🔗

I don’t disagree.

151188 Now More Than Ever, replying to Now More Than Ever, 2, #244 of 1704 🔗

The COVID-19 Assembly survey sounds a good idea and I will try to share it with a few people I respectfully disagree with. However, the fact that it has been designed by the former lead psychologist of Cambridge Analytica (a toxic name in the eyes of many “statists”) will sadly discredit it.

151243 ▶▶ Albie, replying to Now More Than Ever, 4, #245 of 1704 🔗

Well, YouGov have completely discredited themselves this week. They nailed their pro lockdown colours well and truly to its mast in an article both on their site and the Telegraph. They say there isn’t a “silent majority” against lockdown restrictions and got quite snarky. They interpreted a “somewhat support” for restrictions as “overwhelming support”. The article is on You Govs site but will make your blood boil its that snidey in tone. All future YouGov polls on any subject are now, for me, irrelevant. The article is tangible bias.

151193 alw, 10, #246 of 1704 🔗

Civil disobedience in London called for.

151194 alw, 6, #247 of 1704 🔗

Civil disobedience

151199 Albie, replying to Albie, 23, #248 of 1704 🔗

As more and more people ask questions it follows that traffic to this site will increase daily. Therefore, longstanding contributors shouldn’t feel apprehensive about being repetitive. You are sharing your comments with new readers all the time. For example, we know the ins and outs of mask rules but it’s astonishing how many out there don’t, and the anxiety they cause so many is immense. People will head to the comments to see how others fare with masks and how to deal with the situation when questioned for not having one so it can never be repeated enough that saying “I’m exempt” is all that’s needed. No proof required. This is stated on the Government’s own website.

151212 ▶▶ Gillian, replying to Albie, 5, #249 of 1704 🔗

Excellent point. The other side is never shy of constant repetition of its doom-laden message.

151218 ▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to Gillian, 3, #250 of 1704 🔗

Meant to add that the Daily Mirror online today has yet another story (couldn’t bring myself to read it) about a man who initiaaly thought covid was a load of bulls**t……until he was “struck down” and “just pulled through with the help of the wonderful NHS”. Yawn!

151269 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Albie, 3, #251 of 1704 🔗

I shall relax about over doing it on the devi comments then.

Boris is getting uk into bed with Wellcome Trust and BMG foundation today in order to fend off future pandemics. Said that earlier too – it bears repeating!

151529 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 2, #252 of 1704 🔗

I saw the excellent interview with Steve Baker last night, but wonder about his ability to influence these sorts of decisions and get them reversed?

151547 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Basics, #253 of 1704 🔗

Thing is, Basics, I love your comments because you always bring some new fact or insight or sheer pleasantness to the table. Can’t forget your image of sitting in the sun by a boulder with a flask of tea, for example. But increasingly, coming on this site feels like groundhog Day, which is why I’d disagree with the notion that regular contributors are doing good by repeating themselves. What’s wrong with newbies going on the links about masks, for example, and getting some background, and below the line commentators sticking to new insights? ?

152750 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, #254 of 1704 🔗

Suggest we only call him ‘Boris’ if we’re his mates. The ‘incompetent but endearing buffoon’ is still part of the bad guys playbook – we should not endorse it.

151204 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 18, #255 of 1704 🔗

Just want to say to those going to the protest today, will be there in spirit. I know, not much, but trying to keep my business going. It seems we are being ostracised by fellow businesses in the town. But, hopefully, not by our customers.

Depressingly, heard someone on talkRADIO yesterday refer the protest as “far-right”.

151251 ▶▶ Sue, replying to kh1485, 1, #256 of 1704 🔗


151303 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to kh1485, 5, #257 of 1704 🔗

My bit of a protest:

151205 NickR, replying to NickR, 7, #258 of 1704 🔗

Chris Whitty’s worst case projection of 200 daily Covid-19 deaths is only 60% of the average level of excess daily winter deaths of 338 (average excess winter daily deaths 2010-2019 = 338).
It seems hard to believe that, given solitary confinement of most people we’ll reach anything like the average this year. But let’s suppose we do.
If we add the 338 to the 200 we get 538 daily deaths combined, just a bit lower than the daily death total 2017/18!
The reality is that the profile of people who die of Covid-19 are virtually the same as the people who die of flu.
So, accepting Chris Whitty’s projected 200 as the lowest likely daily level and 538 as the maximum likely level of daily deaths we’re likely to fall somewhere inbetween the 2. Just like every other year.

151226 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to NickR, 3, #259 of 1704 🔗

In other words, pretty much like the normal age profile of people who die every year.

As the coronavirus expert located in China during the outbreak said back in February: ‘….. my thinking is this is actually not as severe a disease as is being suggested. The fatality rate is probably only 0.8%-1%. There’s a vast underreporting of cases in China. Compared to Sars and Mers we are talking about a coronavirus that has a mortality rate of 8 to 10 times less deadly to Sars to Mers. So a correct comparison is not Sars or Mers but a severe cold. Basically this is a severe form of the cold.’

151270 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to NickR, 2, #260 of 1704 🔗

I’m not sure that Whitty on Monday was maintaining 200 daily Covid deaths is the worse case projection. I find it difficult to work out what he was claiming going on what he said in his Monday broadcast:-

“This graph is a simple one, it simply shows the number of inpatient cases in England over the period from the first of August. And until that point in time, there had been a steady fall over a long period of time, right back from early April. And it then stabilised for a period and flattened out, but over the period since the first of September, you can see a steady, sustained rise in numbers with a doubling time, as with the cases, of probably seven or eight days. Now what that tells us is that if this carried on unabated, these numbers are relatively small, we are talking about around 200 at the moment, but if this, if this continued along the path that Patrick laid out, the number of deaths directly from Covid, I’ll come back to indirect deaths, will continue to rise, potentially on an exponential curve. That means doubling and doubling and doubling again, and you can quickly move from really quite small numbers to really very large numbers because of that exponential process. So we have, in a bad sense, literally turned a corner, although only relatively recently. And we, I think everybody will realise that at this point the seasons are against us. We’re now going into the seasons late autumn and winter which benefit respiratory viruses, and it is very likely they will benefit Covid as they do for example flu. So we should see this as a six-month problem that we have to deal with collectively. It’s not indefinite and as I come on to, science will in due course come, ride to our rescue, but in this period of the next six months I think we have to realise we have to take this collectively, very seriously.”

Several of his sentences don’t seem quite cogent to me – and he seemed to be reading from a prepared script!

Here’s a transcript of what he and Vallance said:-


I’ve said previously200 seems puzzling low figure for an earnest doomsayer to come up with.

But your point is solid, the government seems to be trying to prevent what previous governments have accepted without a qualm in previous years?

151371 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #261 of 1704 🔗

Posted above an even gloomier prediction of CFR made by Prof. Graham Medley.

151459 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to NickR, 2, #262 of 1704 🔗

But remember, it’s only covid deaths that are bad, so the total number doesn’t matter.

151208 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 11, #263 of 1704 🔗

Harold Wilson’s Britain of the 1970s led to overwhelming support amongst all age groups for the reforming government of Margaret Thatcher, defined against the anarchy of the miners unions.

None of the major parties now have any appetite in the ‘Blair’s Britain’ of today for the far reaching reform that is required in this country, defined once more by a recalcitrant public sector clinging to its perquisites.

If there ever is to be a time for a new reforming political force to begin the slow steady ascent to power, as youngsters experience for themselves constraints on the freedoms that they hitherto took for granted, a shock similar to the power cuts of the Wilson era, now would be it.

151235 ▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Tim Bidie, 5, #264 of 1704 🔗

Have a look at the SDP website ( https://sdp.org.uk/ ). I don’t agree with them on everything, but socially they might be just what this country needs at the moment.

151284 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Andrew Fish, 2, #265 of 1704 🔗

I had a look too. The idea of starting a party from scratch seems a tall order and we have experience of what happened to UKIP and the Brexit party as a reference.

151574 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Tim Bidie, -3, #266 of 1704 🔗

Which parts of the recalcitrant public sector are you objecting to? NHS, teachers, local government dealing with social care and education, what? From where I’m sitting the recalcitrant private sector of City property magnates owning major office blocks, civil aviation chiefs and petrochemical industrialists are the ones all pressuring governments to perpetuate outdated business models and be supported by my money to do so.

151792 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Bruno, #267 of 1704 🔗

The public sector is an outdated business model.

Private industries supported by public money are quite clearly part of the public sector, the problem.


151938 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Tim Bidie, #268 of 1704 🔗

I’m afraid allowing some parts of the public sector to be purchased and run by private industries like Serco has been a disaster. The public sector is not an ‘outdated business model.’ It is a public service, which when pretending to be run on the profit motive becomes a car crash. Eventually the state, i.e. you and me, has to step back in, reassume responsibility for the debts and risks, and get on with it. Witness the probation service, the rash of private health and safety consultancies leading to Grenfell, railways, water, etc.

151916 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Bruno, 2, #269 of 1704 🔗

As opposed to the legions of council, quango and NHS staff all working from home on reduced pay and not accruing pension rights?
How about the private sector of 1/2 a million hospitality sector workers shortly going on the dole because of dictats from a secure management class who will always have taxpayer funded income.
Tbe govt is not boosting private office rental incomes last time I looked.
Civil aviation has shrunk by 80% already and petrochemicals are fairly essential and tax paying rather than taxtaking.

151215 Emily Tock, replying to Emily Tock, 7, #270 of 1704 🔗

I’m in a terrible funk today, which is unusual for a person who has always chosen joy and concrete, individual action. With unis scheduled to start modules this comming Monday, the Irish government gave a shambolic pronouncement late yesterday afternoon that all higher education institutions must go online for at least 2 weeks (take it as read that this will continue indefinitely.) My oldest son’s classes in Toronto have already been put online, my youngest (still in secondary) is doing school online, my middle son and I are studying/working at uni here in Ireland… When I teach, I read individual faces, as well as the group dynamic to gauge my students’ level of understanding, which I will not have in an environment where students can ‘attend’ an online class with their mic muted and video turned off… I despair for the bright, potential-filled lives of my children and all the other students I have ever taught. Now the government is threatening 3rd level lockdown in Galway, which would make the small chamber group some friends and I just formed illegal. I’m not sure I can envision the long-term point of such a joyless existence. Ireland has a total of 17 covid-19 cases in icu and 100 hospitalised covid-19 patients. Yesterday there were 0 confirmed deaths and 0 confirmed admissions to ICU. https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/

151285 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Emily Tock, 2, #271 of 1704 🔗

Sad to hear about Galway. The city is reknowned for its flowing mass of people in and out of bars and onto the streets. That’s part of the charm. You start your drink in one place and end up finishing it in another.

151361 ▶▶▶ Emily Tock, replying to mhcp, 2, #272 of 1704 🔗

We wandered the streets last night, FRIDAY, with students supposedly back for the new year. There were a few about, but nothing like how it would normally be. With third level lockdown, it will be even quieter… Galway has an extremely vibrant live music and theatre culture and multiple arts festivals, which will be even further decimated if we are placed under stricter lockdown measures. October, November, and December are very low on sun here – arts and the bars, cafes, and pubs keep the city going during that yearly dark time. What will happen this year?

151403 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Emily Tock, 2, #273 of 1704 🔗

Halloween won’t be good by the sounds of it

151220 Kath Andrews, replying to Kath Andrews, 15, #274 of 1704 🔗

On the train to sunny London. Conductor just asked where’s my mask. Have lanyard in my bag, but couldn’t bring myself to show it him. Bit of a stand off, nothing major, but he did warn me that checks are being carried out today. Blood boiling.

151240 ▶▶ Templeton, replying to Kath Andrews, 4, #275 of 1704 🔗

Feeling your pain acutely at the moment Kath.
I’m sure they will be using todays protest to take proper liberties

151309 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Kath Andrews, 6, #276 of 1704 🔗

Going to a peaceful, lawful protest? No mask? You are clearly a dangerous, far-right conspiracy theorist* and will need to be handcuffed. Unless you have a hidden gun, of course, in which case you are exempt.

*(Thick/Brexit voting/racist/Wetherspoon customer are assumed)

151333 ▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #277 of 1704 🔗


151222 Steeve, replying to Steeve, 6, #278 of 1704 🔗


151261 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Steeve, 2, #279 of 1704 🔗

They are using isolation tags in western OZ. Not criminal tags – isolation. Amounts to the same thing. A lady in Oz was the furst to have one fitted. Please add link if you go searching.

151525 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Steeve, #281 of 1704 🔗

See Julia H-B’s Twitter of a family that had to endure just that in Hong Kong: https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1309762870079619072

151223 Templeton, 40, #282 of 1704 🔗

Sorry if someone has already linked and commented on this, but I woke up still raging from yesterday.


Felt obliged to say something.

You have opted to report about fines on face coverings from a biased view point.
The law states that only BTPolice or a public health official can challenge someone without a mask. You report that both a passenger and a bus driver have received physical abuse for challenging others to wear a mask, which they should not be doing.
The law also states that there are a large number of exemptions on face coverings for people who cannot wear them.
You have made no mention of this and have effectively framed the story against anyone who may be exempt.
I have recently started to travel back into London after being furloughed and am following exemption rules. I have been verbally abused 4 times in 5 days by members of the public, even though I have opted to use Network rails “Sunflower” lanyard and disability card to display why I am not wearing a face covering. Again the law states that there is no need for me to wear this but I am having to because of said abuse and I am now fearful of using public transport

Neither network rail or yourselves as our national media broadcaster are adequately protecting people who fall under the exemption category.
Indeed, your biased slanting will allow people to feel even more strongly to think they have a right to challenge people, without knowing any of the underlying causes why they cant use a face covering.

I kindly request that any further reporting on public transport face covering issues should be balanced and accounting for those who legally fall under the exemption category and an addendum be added to this report to help people understand there is a good reason for some not to be wearing masks.

151228 percy openshaw, 3, #283 of 1704 🔗

Re: Jemima Lewis and Winter is Coming, we have to recognise that tunnel vision and hypochondria are with us every day. In combination they can lead to mental illness. And once an unscrupulous or panic stricken government decides to exploit them, they can lead to mass psychosis. Real, lateral thinking is very rare. We can see this every time we’re baffled by a cross word clue that turns out to be easy – the mind has been clinging to the explanation it originally sought. Add to this the other natural tendencies of the human animal – herd instinct, fear of solitude and reluctance to ponder things too deeply – and you have history, as it is – not as idealists or patriots would like it to be. So we shouldn’t be surprised by current acquiescence in state stupidity. It is as old as the hills. We have to address ourselves to the question: how to bounce people out of it. Mere indignation and surprise won’t help.

151229 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 25, #284 of 1704 🔗

I was speaking with my pharmacist friend yesterday. She reckons that the Covid-19 vaccine, when (or if) it is finally brought to market, will be a failure – either due to having too many negative side effects in too many people, or due to being basically useless and having no significant effect on reducing disease prevalence. She predicts that this will spark off an anti-vaccine movement that will set back and reduce uptake of other vaccines that actually have a health benefit.

I don’t think the vaccine failing is beyond the realms of possibility, especially because governments around the world and the WHO are putting all their eggs in one basket with the vaccine and touting as the only way to return to normal, thereby mismanaging the public’s expectations and raising them far too high. It is also expected to be ready for public consumption sometime in 2021 which is far too quick. Having a safe and effective vaccine ready 18 months after a novel virus first appears – a novel virus which comes from a virus family for which no vaccines have been made before – borders on the absurd.

Of course, any decreased uptake of actually beneficial vaccines which results from the anti-vaccine movement would be another ‘unforeseen’ consequence of seriously broken policymaking from world governments; policies that treat all other diseases in the world as secondary to Covid.

151237 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Poppy, 14, #285 of 1704 🔗

I believe that the virus and vaccine go hand in hand with the climate change lobby, who see a health passport as a way of restricting movement (and normal life), so the planet which the elite think of as belonging to them, can be saved from us plebs. Although most of their individual carbon footprints would add up to thousands of ours.

151522 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Poppy, 5, #286 of 1704 🔗

Giesecke would agree with your friend! However, Is your pharmacist friend aware that Matt Hancock intends to bring in unlicensed vaccines and that the coronavirus act allows for mandatory vaccination?

151598 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Poppy, 2, #287 of 1704 🔗

I think your friend is right.

Take me for example. Six months ago I rushed to the doctors and had every jab I could possibly get for free. (Except the flu jab which I’ve recently renounced).

Now, I will think carefully about and research every single one I have in future. The prospect of being jabbed against my will has completely and utterly turned me.

Why would they want to jab me against my will?— that thought process is beginning in many people right now. It will strengthen if and when we discover the uselessness / dangerousness of this vaccine.

151230 Dan Clarke, 11, #288 of 1704 🔗

It appears the tide is turning from this micro managing government, msm getting bored with the same stories, parliament waking up to Johnson handing the country over to the Sage Coup

151233 Basics, replying to Basics, #289 of 1704 🔗


Effects of a major deletion in the SARS-CoV-2 genome on the severity of infection and the inflammatory response: an observational cohort study

Background: Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) variants with a 382-nucleotide deletion (∆382) in the open reading frame 8 (ORF8) region of the genome have been detected in Singapore and other countries. We investigated the effect of this deletion on the clinical features of infection.

Observational Study
Effects of a major deletion in the SARS-CoV-2 genome on the severity of infection and the inflammatory response: an observational cohort study

Background: Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) variants with a 382-nucleotide deletion (∆382) in the open reading frame 8 (ORF8) region of the genome have been detected in Singapore and other countries. We investigated the effect of this deletion on the clinical features of infection.

Methods: We retrospectively identified patients who had been screened for the ∆382 variant and recruited to the PROTECT study-a prospective observational cohort study conducted at seven public hospitals in Singapore. We collected clinical, laboratory, and radiological data from patients’ electronic medical records and serial blood and respiratory samples taken during hospitalisation and after discharge. Individuals infected with the ∆382 variant were compared with those infected with wild-type SARS-CoV-2. Exact logistic regression was used to examine the association between the infection groups and the development of hypoxia requiring supplemental oxygen (an indicator of severe COVID-19, the primary endpoint). Follow-up for the study’s primary endpoint is completed.

Findings: Between Jan 22 and March 21, 2020, 278 patients with PCR-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection were screened for the ∆382 deletion and 131 were enrolled onto the study, of whom 92 (70%) were infected with the wild-type virus, ten (8%) had a mix of wild-type and ∆382-variant viruses, and 29 (22%) had only the ∆382 variant. Development of hypoxia requiring supplemental oxygen was less frequent in the ∆382 variant group (0 [0%] of 29 patients) than in the wild-type only group (26 [28%] of 92; absolute difference 28% [95% CI 14-28]). After adjusting for age and presence of comorbidities, infection with the ∆382 variant only was associated with lower odds of developing hypoxia requiring supplemental oxygen (adjusted odds ratio 0·07 [95% CI 0·00-0·48]) compared with infection with wild-type virus only.

Interpretation: The ∆382 variant of SARS-CoV-2 seems to be associated with a milder infection. The observed clinical effects of deletions in ORF8 could have implications for the development of treatments and vaccines.

More on the link above

152173 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Basics, #290 of 1704 🔗

Posted this yesterday. But it bears repeating. I think the deletion of ORF-8 has led to a massive drop in pathogenicity. I’ve seen mention of viral replication (not transmission) reducing 20-fold.
They know this, and will counter with everything they can, to say the virus hasn’t lost its virulence. Deletion of ORF-8 is exactly what happened with Sars-CoV-1, and that simply disappeared as a symptomatic illness.
I just do not believe that the inflammation response causing a cytokine storm and ARD is happening now.
Maybe 15 deaths a day with Covid. Of these, I suspect that Covid is the primary cause of death in about 0-1. And the 1 will typically be 80 or older.
I also think we pretty well have collective immunity already. Combine that with loss of virulence, and you now just have a phantom pathogen.

151238 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 2, #291 of 1704 🔗

BBC R2 news tells of an inquiry by the Roslyn Institute into whether DNA plays a role in the different levels of Covid symptoms between people, ranging from death to asymptomatic.

Might have thought they would have started that months ago.

151304 ▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to karenovirus, 2, #292 of 1704 🔗

And could it be more damaging in cultures in which cousin marriage is common? Any livestock farmer knows that generations of interbreeding results in sickly progeny.
This is a ‘peasant‘ issue rather than a religious issue. My own family; almost entirely confined to a small area of the English Midlands East Of The A1, practised massive interbreeding a few generations ago, probably because they never met anyone else! However, it is almost certainly a suspicion that Cannot Be Spoken Of.

151604 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Caroline Watson, 1, #293 of 1704 🔗

The study found a slight genetic correlation between inability to manufacture interferon, commoner in males over 50 in the study, and severity of Covid19 symptoms. Which looks interesting. Different issue from interbreeding though.

151711 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bruno, #294 of 1704 🔗

Sorry, should have said that this was to be a new study.

151244 Michael May, replying to Michael May, 8, #295 of 1704 🔗

Does anyone have any idea how we respond to the section of society that seems to believe that everyone should be able to live forever? When you point out that CoVID-19 only threatens the elderly and vulnerable, the same as a whole pile of other diseases that we don’t bother to discuss any more, they come back with things like “They could have a few good years left in them” and “You don’t care about the elderly because you’re not old.” In fact, I fully expect to become older than I am (currently 54) and if the trajectory of the breakdown of my body’s functional capability so far is any guide, I’d welcome an illness that leads to my simply going to sleep one night and never waking up.

(I remember my mother-in-law, who suffered a stroke on Christmas Eve 2016 and spent the next nine weeks lying in a hospital bed, uncommunicative, being fed through a PEG in her stomach and having her nappy changed several times a day. Dear God, no.)

So, what come next after:

Me: CoVID-19 is only killing those in the groups normally vulnerable to flu and the like.
Whomever: You are an unfeeling person who doesn’t care about anyone other than yourself and refuses to accept that these people have as much right to life as you do.

Anything starting “It may seem callous, but …” is likely a non-starter.

(Footnote: I left the Telegraph Facebook group after being accused of racism when I suggested that the government should include in their daily announcements the number of people discharged from hospital having survived CoVID-19.)

151262 ▶▶ matt, replying to Michael May, 3, #296 of 1704 🔗

I’m afraid you’re making the mistake of assuming you can use logic to convince someone whose thought processes are fundamentally illogical.

The viable counter argument to the “they may have lived a bit longer, you uncaring bastard” ‘point’ is to shift to a discussion of the destructiveness of the measures on those who should have many, many years left to them but really, you’re shouting into a hurricane. Better to put your effort into people who are open to listening.

151289 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Michael May, 6, #297 of 1704 🔗

The cause is euphemisms and taboos.

For years now we have talked about “the vulnerable” and “the most vulnerable in our society” when we often really mean the terminally ill, the insane, and various other conditions we don’t like to refer to directly. Now we talk about “mental health” when we mean a bit of anxiety.

25% of all Covid deaths had dementia or alzheimer’s. Can you imagine Whitty saying that the primary aim is to prevent the terminally ill from catching infections in hospitals and care homes? And yet that is unarguable the aim. Instead we all refer to them as “the most vulnerable”, “the elderly”.

151326 ▶▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to WhyNow, 4, #298 of 1704 🔗

And have you noticed that they say, ‘I suffer from mental health’ when what they actually mean is that they have a mental illness or, more likely, that they get panicky at the idea of having to earn a living. Pointing out that ‘health’ is actually a positive state or a neutral term and that you cannot ‘suffer from’ it is like banging your head on a wall.
I have supported a friend through a serious and debilitating mental illness and what she suffered from, and still does to a lesser degree, was not a bit of ‘anxiety’.

151296 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Michael May, 1, #299 of 1704 🔗

You can counter that they also have a right to a dignified death and funeral

151346 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to mhcp, 11, #300 of 1704 🔗

I find many people’s reasoning around extending the life of the fragile elderly to be extremely selfish. They think only about postponing the grief that they will experience when their loved one dies, not about their relative’s dignity or quality of life.

At the beginning of all this, when they were less sceptical than they are now, my senior parents told me that under no circumstances did they wish to be put on a ventilator or otherwise “messed around with” if they became very ill with Covid-19 or any other disease. Their biggest fear would be to be locked away in an institution in the name of protection and to be deprived of their autonomy and access to anything that makes life worth living.

151301 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to Michael May, 12, #301 of 1704 🔗

Perhaps this helps…..my 97 year old aunty likes nothing better than being taken out in her wheelchair to do her own shopping. She hates staying in her own bungalow day after day, despite its comforts and is aware of the risk of catching covid. quality of life surely matters more than quantity at her time of life?

151310 ▶▶ court, replying to Michael May, 6, #302 of 1704 🔗

TVs Dr Christian has come out with a sane tweet, and this guy – the ‘If it saves just 1 life’ type of guy- at the top of his replies:

“ @DoctorChristian
I respect you, but I cannot accept deaths to our elderly & vulnerable because we can’t hold out a little longer… that little longer may be a few years, but saving more lives is worth it. It’s shit, we’re not happy, but it’s not death. We need understanding time”

He’s ok though, works for the NHS in some capacity.

Death is something that just can’t happen any more apparently.

151352 ▶▶▶ Nsklent, replying to court, 1, #303 of 1704 🔗

…that little longer may be a few years… this guy must have had a pretty rubbish life before this started, if he wants a few more years of it. These people are those that would gawp in disbelief if you told them 1600 people on average die normally every day, so around 40,000ish a month. They also seem to be oblivious to the deaths across all age groups that are being denied healthcare, before we get onto the outcome on world poverty and 1.2 million child deaths because of this self indulgent response to a not remarkable virus. I am just waiting for some numpty to try this logic on me.

151453 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to court, 2, #304 of 1704 🔗

In a few more years, surely the vast majority of those elderly and vulnerable he is trying to “save” will be dead from other causes anyway, after spending the last few years of their life isolated and alone.

Does he really think the country can pop out of lockdown in “a few years” and return to normal?! That this won’t kill anyone by itself?

151625 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Michael May, #305 of 1704 🔗

Stems generally from people who have not yet experienced the death of anyone close, nor sat at their deathbed. Which is not something you can order up to educate them. Like many, have told my children I want no resus, oxygen lines, interference in my death. Maybe tell them your atoms never disappear, just return to stardust.

151246 Basics, replying to Basics, 14, #306 of 1704 🔗

Boris to reveal plans for working with the bill and melinda gates foundation and the Wellcome trust to fend off future pandemic later today – Sky News reported just now. No other details given.

The abhorrent government practice of bringing in NGOs/Trusts/private companies to evolve policy around needs to be banned outlawed and stamped out. It is fatal to democracy.

151258 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Basics, 5, #307 of 1704 🔗

He is looking for a job, and some money – see the link to The Mail article.

151266 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #308 of 1704 🔗

Yeah, probably getting his post-PM gig set up.

151280 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to DRW, 6, #309 of 1704 🔗

He is, of course, deluded. He is of no value to anyone important now. He is mentally unwell, and they know that.

151305 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 10, #310 of 1704 🔗

I agree TT. His spokes person is going to hide him from us.

A reminder: Chris Whitty is Chair of the UK Vaccine Network. “It turns out that, out of the 34 members, 32 were directly funded and has an on going financial relationship with The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.”

151312 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 8, #311 of 1704 🔗


The uk vaccine network team is basically owned by the bill and melinda gates Foundation.

If people are not seeing the full stitch up of what is happening to us at this point then I don’t know what.

Good luck to all in London today.

151515 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 4, #312 of 1704 🔗

Vallance has been ‘outed’ in the media regarding his shares in vaccines – about time the same was done to Chris Whitty..

151359 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Basics, 3, #313 of 1704 🔗

Treason then it is:

In the 1351 Treason Act it states:

“Declaration what Offences shall be adjudged Treason.”

“if a Man do levy War against our Lord the King in his Realm, be adherent to the King’s Enemies in his Realm, giving to them Aid and Comfort in the Realm, or elsewhere”

Definition of adherent:  A supporter, as of a cause or individual

151431 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Basics, #314 of 1704 🔗

No conspiracy here all down to incompetence.

151247 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 11, #315 of 1704 🔗

Blair took us to war on the basis of false information. Of course, he was doing what his paymasters wanted. All they needed to do was dangle a lucrative speaking tour in front of a vain, grabby man with a high maintenance wife, and Bingo. See any parallels here:


The well-informed Andrew Pearce is keeping this story alive – good.

151324 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #316 of 1704 🔗

Yep, WMD act 2

151641 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #317 of 1704 🔗

He was doing what the US oil men wanted. Thank heavens Wilson resisted US pressure and kept us out of Vietnam.

151250 Schrodinger, 2, #318 of 1704 🔗

Worth 6 and a half minutes of your time

“COVID 19 The Musical by Frankie Goes To Nowhere”


151253 petgor, replying to petgor, 16, #319 of 1704 🔗

I think that it is fair to say that the government ably assisted by most of the media and the tuned in experts, have won the hearts and minds of the majority of what seems to be a very weak minded public.

The future is now very grim with a powerful, irresponsible power crazed government, which has been given free rein to destroy our country.

Thank God for Lockdown Sceptics and those readers who comment and also for Talk Radio.

151263 ▶▶ Nic, replying to petgor, 5, #320 of 1704 🔗

I only listen to talk radio now

151256 AnotherSceptic, replying to AnotherSceptic, 6, #321 of 1704 🔗

She is absolutely 100% correct, yet she is getting made out to be the one who is in the wrong.
Just shows how much people have been brainwashed.

It mentions in the story “an anticipated second wave” the word here being anticipated.

Proves it is just a Crock of utter shit.

I hope you see this sturgeon you little boot.


151295 ▶▶ dpj, replying to AnotherSceptic, 3, #322 of 1704 🔗

Yes, I can’t disagree with anything she says. We will never move forward when the MSM keeps putting down anyone who dares to not follow the narrative. They have also used photos from her social media intentionally all through the article to make out she is some sort of dumb blonde who doesn’t know what she is talking about. Disgraceful journalism.

151257 karenovirus, #323 of 1704 🔗

From the roundup.
Who ever said Leeds in my Lockdown Sweepstakes last week is the winner !

I always wondered what was so special about ‘except Blackpool’.

151260 FrankiiB, replying to FrankiiB, 10, #324 of 1704 🔗

Local ITV interview with a Birmingham City Council official stated that the military will be deployed in the next 5 days to go door to door in the hardest hit wards. They will giving out testing kits and collecting them in an hour.

Is it a legal requirement to do a test if they knock your door? My thinking is that it is not and anyone could refuse. However, most people will give in under such harassment,

151273 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to FrankiiB, 6, #325 of 1704 🔗

Don’t answer the door, seems like a good strategy. This is bordering on the insane.

151321 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #326 of 1704 🔗

It is a good strategy however it doesn’t stop the effect of oppression. Cowering behind the wood in the hole is not a way we ought to be needing to live. It may be the best option. It is desperate and offensive to freedom that people feel the need to do that. Abhorrent.

151362 ▶▶▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Basics, 4, #327 of 1704 🔗

Priest holes, the new must have home upgrade, may even add value to your home. It has actually crossed my mind.

151557 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Nsklent, 1, #328 of 1704 🔗

LOL yes yes. We are becoming the new persecuted dissenters! Shortly to be dragged off and burnt at the stake for our anti lockdown beliefs.

151425 ▶▶▶ bucky99, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #329 of 1704 🔗

“Bordering”… think we’re well past!

151282 ▶▶ Hoppy Uniatz, replying to FrankiiB, 10, #330 of 1704 🔗

I suggest you go out and buy a goat and a papaya

151286 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to FrankiiB, 3, #331 of 1704 🔗

No legal right

151291 ▶▶▶ FrankiiB, replying to Dan Clarke, #332 of 1704 🔗

If you have any link or reference that would help me as people are asking me. Obviously to many if they see someone in uniform then they think they have to

151294 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to FrankiiB, 8, #333 of 1704 🔗

You cannot be forced to undertake any medical procedure under the Mental Capacity Act 2005. You can also tell them to leave your property and tell them not to return.

151561 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to p02099003, 1, #334 of 1704 🔗

I don’t know if it true but under International law they cannot force you to be vaccinated against wishes.

151311 ▶▶ IanE, replying to FrankiiB, 3, #335 of 1704 🔗

Or just put the probe under the tap.

151315 ▶▶▶ FrankiiB, replying to IanE, #336 of 1704 🔗

Haha I didnt think of that!

151319 ▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to IanE, 1, #337 of 1704 🔗

I thought that. It could still come back positive!

151325 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to FrankiiB, 7, #338 of 1704 🔗

What you could do is graciously accept the test equipment. Use your phone to video yourself putting the probe back into the envelope unused. Return the envelope to the nice person on their return. Keep the video safe. If or when you receive notice that you tested positive you have absolute proof that you can’t be and the result is a false positive.

151586 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to p02099003, 1, #339 of 1704 🔗

This is what I’m gonna do.

151332 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to FrankiiB, 5, #340 of 1704 🔗

The politburo has spent the last week telling us that no one should be getting a test unless they have symptoms. To decline the opportunity when it is offered on one’s own doorstep is surely completely in line with the instructions that have come down from on high.

151350 ▶▶▶ FrankiiB, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #341 of 1704 🔗

I think the aim is to make the prediction of virus cases doubling come true. Therefore, they need to find lots and lots more tests to achieve that.

151354 ▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to FrankiiB, 2, #342 of 1704 🔗

I agree! But we have been told that we are very naughty if we get tested without symptoms, so surely it is our civic duty to decline…

151421 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #343 of 1704 🔗

This makes me soo furious.
Do this, don’t do this, do this, don’t do this! Please!

151370 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to FrankiiB, 2, #344 of 1704 🔗

Anyone who has ever been active in politics and elections will know how time consuming leafleting a ward can be, especially a large inner city one, let alone knocking on doors and returning later. Good job no foreign enemies are planning to attack. But I agree with whoever said, “draw the curtains and don’t answer.”

151552 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to FrankiiB, #345 of 1704 🔗

I’m not being tested or injected.

151268 AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 9, #346 of 1704 🔗

Good morning fellow Lockdown Sceptics.

Tony Heller on top top form in the video below. The clip from earlier in the week from The White House press conference with Scott Atlas is so good. The fact that he/the administration is following Gupta, Bhattacharya and Ioannidis has given me the most hope over the last few days that there is a way out of this. It was work by Bhattacharya and Ioannidis from April that helped me realise that the dominant narrative was probably BS.

Keep the faith. The truth will out

“Listen To The Science”


151322 ▶▶ DRW, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 4, #347 of 1704 🔗

Trump should have had Atlas et al on board from the beginning instead of just letting Fauci call all the shots.

151410 ▶▶▶ Nottingham69, replying to DRW, #348 of 1704 🔗

Yes that could well cost Trump a second term.

151585 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 1, #349 of 1704 🔗

I think I’m in love with Scotty Atlas.

151287 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 4, #350 of 1704 🔗

My wife has just told me about an item on her Guardian news feed. NHS workers going to work are being pinged by the new app because they’re in close proximity to CoViD19 cases (aka patients) if they forget to pause the app. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/24/users-report-issues-as-covid-19-app-launches-in-england-and-wales?utm_term=3a426ad49c265f9883fe4618d80740ea&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUK&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=GTUK_email

151355 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to p02099003, 2, #351 of 1704 🔗

“Our World beating app is showing us that anyone can be surrounded by a dozen or more infected people, we need to lock down harder…”

151394 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #352 of 1704 🔗

Humm just imagine the trouble that could be caused if somebody figured out how to spoof the bluetooth ID of a user that is known to have tested positive…Mayhem…Especially if this spoofing software could be downloaded easily by a lot of people

151449 ▶▶▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Two-Six, #353 of 1704 🔗

In the words of Ben Stiller in the Starsky & Hutch spoof: “Do it; do it.”

151363 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to p02099003, 1, #354 of 1704 🔗

“NHS workers expressed confusion early on in the day about how they were supposed to use the app, since bringing it to their workplace could result in them erroneously being marked as “exposed” despite wearing personal protection equipment. A Department for Health spokesperson said that staff in such a situation should pause the contact tracing feature, using a button on the app’s main screen, while at work to avoid that outcome.”

So it looks like this hasn’t actually happened – just a fear expressed by some slightly hard-of-thinking individuals who don’t know their bluetooth, or indeed their phone itself has an ‘off’ button. Surely it would be ludicrous, in terms of infection control, for clinical staff wearing legit PPE to be carrying their personal phones around with them in clinical areas among patients with a positive test.

151457 ▶▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Charlie Blue, 8, #355 of 1704 🔗

And here you have precisely summed up why this is a nocosomial disease, caught mainly in healthcare situations: because the majority of those working in those situations are not sufficiently ‘clean’ themselves. Former matron after former matron has, for years now, been horrified at the low standards of hygiene in today’s hospitals.

151424 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to p02099003, 6, #356 of 1704 🔗

Why do they have their bacteria riddled phone in their uniform in the first place?
A uniform they put on at home, under their – now wintercoat which hasn’t been washed in years, as the hospital cannot provide them with a laundry service or changing rooms?

I read one nurse commenting, that from the money Major Tom raised they will buy lockers to put heir handbags in? WTF? Your employer does not supply that?
My mother was a nurse in Germany and all her uniform was done by the in house laundry and distributed to her own locker. And she only worked 6 shifts a month, but had her own locker!

151549 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Silke David, 1, #357 of 1704 🔗

I heard ever since managers replaced matrons the changing rooms were converted into offices for the managers.

151290 THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 4, #358 of 1704 🔗


All about Prof Karol Sikora’s letter, plus some of the correspondance we’ve had from you (and Toby) over the last few weeks.

Many thanks for listening. Recording the next pod tomorrow at the local boozer.



Have a great Saturday!

151292 ▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 3, #359 of 1704 🔗

Oh yeah, and two wicked songs. One from Bozza as he looks out the rain flecked window of No.10 wishing that Rishi would save him.

The other from the perspective of a teenager in the future, learning from his parents about what a dancefloor was, and how ‘courting’ happened back then.

151297 DaveB, replying to DaveB, 29, #360 of 1704 🔗

On my way to Trafalgar Square, was last there on 5th September rally, which, apart from a bottle thrown at police outside Downing Street, was wholly peaceful. I don’t think I’ve ever used the word before, but that day was a joyous occasion. To be in close proximity to a huge crowd with not a mask in sight was hugely uplifting for my soul. The polar opposite to seeing the level of mask compliance during a supermarket visit.

Hoping we get a large and peaceful crowd today, looks like a good day for it. Don’t think this is a poll tax moment, that was unfair and unpopular, and I’m not sure yet that we have the majority on our side. What we do have on our side is time. More and more people are coming over as the idiotic charts and models, inaccurate tests and contradictions are exposed. Let’s see what happens to cases by mid-October. People are getting more and more fed up with the restrictions. It’s going to be a long haul, but I’m 100% sure we’ll be on the right side of history.

151307 ▶▶ IanE, replying to DaveB, 12, #361 of 1704 🔗

I hope you are right, but I am 100% sure that the economic damage will take decades, if ever, to be reversed and that the damage to people’s lives, livelihoods and general welfare is irreversible.

151358 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to IanE, 3, #362 of 1704 🔗

Yep. Economic effects are death by a thousand cuts. Even with the stock market you see a sharp drop, then a recovery of sorts then a continual decline for a year or two.

Like the flood water slowly incroaching on the unfortunate residents of the Somerset Levels some years ago

151396 ▶▶ DRW, replying to DaveB, #363 of 1704 🔗

I keep hoping for our own tipping point, to use a trendy phrase. But a gradual, cumulative thing is more likely.

151414 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to DaveB, #364 of 1704 🔗

We will be on the right side, whatever the plans they are going about it the WRONG way, how dare they destroy lives in a matter of months.

151465 ▶▶ James, replying to DaveB, 1, #365 of 1704 🔗

Good luck today. I hope the turnout is huge. I fear that time is not on our side. The tools at the Governments disposal for suppressing dissent and building more and more momentum for their agenda are vast. I actually think they have been quite gentle so far. As Tyrants they are not actually very convincing. But they will learn quickly.

151298 PastImperfect, 6, #366 of 1704 🔗

New Fast PCR Test – quicker false positives

Get Your Copper-Infused Face Masks Now – Solve a problem you’ve made for yourself.

151313 JohnMac, replying to JohnMac, 4, #367 of 1704 🔗

China prepares to declare victory in global vaccine race – and assures the world theirs is safe

I don’t think this is a joke.

151415 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to JohnMac, 1, #368 of 1704 🔗

That is funny

151329 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 4, #369 of 1704 🔗

The really shocking thing is that, through isolation, our experience of the world has become a movie, or a series of movies.

The global health professionals are working in their world of models and conferences and papers and discoveries in the lab. This movie is about who has the best predictions and methods for handling a global pandemic, who can discover a vaccine.

The media are working in their world of stories and narrative and images. They have pictures of full ICU wards, children dying (preferably BAME), healthy old people in the prime of life, hockey stick graphs, big numbers, heroic doctors and nurses. This movie is about how heroic journalists reported on the fight against an alien killer disease.

The politicians are in their world of command and control. This has committees, papers, briefings, media appearances, big numbers, big money, big egos, laws, regulations, polls. This movie is about how decisive and clear thinking statesmen made weighty decisions to defend the world against death.

The public are just the punters in these movies. The herds of thankful people saved by the health professional, informed by the media, and directed by the politicians.

151377 ▶▶ Ajb, replying to WhyNow, 2, #370 of 1704 🔗

In our heads, of course we are always the heroes of said movies, until age and experience lets you realise you are not Bruce Willis saving the world, but the unmentioned person in the crowd who gets splatted at the beginning of the film!

151466 ▶▶▶ Arkansas, replying to Ajb, #371 of 1704 🔗

We are like Bruce Willis, but the Bruce Willis of Christmas 2020 rather than Christmas 1989:

We see ourselves as being plastered prominently on the big promotional posters for a movie, but the reality is a poor quality, low budget, transient, bargain bin, DVD-only film where we appear in a single scene only, a scene with brief and terrible dialogue with action that is completely disconnected from the main story.

Or does that apply better to Boris Johnson? We shall see, I guess, when the box office numbers come in for Contagion II: Lockdown vs Livelihoods.

151337 Jakehadlee, replying to Jakehadlee, 4, #372 of 1704 🔗

The really scary thing about all this is that any advice based on modelling is now not going to be treated with educated caution, as Covid models should have been, but simply dismissed outright by the public once the truth of the Covid cock-up becomes more widely known.

The damage done to public trust in science may be irreparable for a generation at least. And if and when we actually do need to listen to it, it’ll be too late.

151353 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Jakehadlee, 5, #373 of 1704 🔗

As a scientist and engineer I see that as a good thing. Models should never be used to drive real-world policy

151367 ▶▶▶ Neil Hartley, replying to mhcp, 1, #374 of 1704 🔗

Surely it depends on inputs/assumptions and the honesty of the modeller/those using the results. Clearly the ICL was dodgy on all of those fronts.

151400 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Neil Hartley, 4, #375 of 1704 🔗

In engineering a model is never used as final verification. It is just daft to think it as by definition a model is only your knowledge of a system and not the feedbacks from interaction with the real world

151386 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to mhcp, 2, #376 of 1704 🔗

Nor do we need them now we have sufficient empirical data to test hypotheses. I’m not a statistician/modeller, unlike Mr TT, but the ‘dataset’ in Ferguson’s 16 March model was the bigger issue for both of us, as former natural scientists. The point of models is to explore scenarios when you have no data, and plan for those potential scenarios. Once you have the data, then you use that to inform the planning. This was Shell scenario planning 101 – the book was written decades ago.

151356 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Jakehadlee, 4, #377 of 1704 🔗

Advice based on models – particularly of the type that are never tested against reality and refined until they have actual predictive capability should never be treated as evidence. It is not evidence. Making predictions in this way is not science.

151447 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Jakehadlee, #378 of 1704 🔗

George Box, as quoted in today’s posting, got it right: “ All models are wrong, but some are useful

Also worth watching the films by Adam Curtis collectively titled ‘All Watched Over By Machines Of Loving Grace’ for a view on the inherent limitation of models.

Finally here is an A.I. version of a classic film.

Real humans and reality are best – accept no substitute!

151343 Steeve, replying to Steeve, 1, #379 of 1704 🔗

How much training is given for scientists etc to give the same message day after day in that monotonous expert tone, implying/portraying that they are very much an expert worth listening to?

151454 ▶▶ James, replying to Steeve, 1, #380 of 1704 🔗

Probably quite a lot.

151360 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #381 of 1704 🔗

On the debunking of the FPR issue, as is so often the case, we’ve been forced onto ‘enemy territory’.

PCR Pillar 2 testing already exists and therefore the raising of the FPR issue made us the renegades sniping at an established strategy. Where our argument should have been ‘Pillar 2 testing’ is not valid for the following reasons… we were instead saying ‘Pillar 2 testing is less accurate because…’ . This echoes the way we get drawn into arguments over how effective masks are, where really we should be arguing that the state has no business controlling how we choose to breathe or present ourselves to the world.

Anyway, the debunking of our Pillar 2 FPR claim rests on self-selection. Their counter-claim is that because the people queuing up think they have symptoms, this means they have already pre-diagnosed themselves with Covid, making it more likely that they, in fact, do have it. This pre-filtering thus improves the chances of a positive test being correct, and makes the person being tested more similar to an actual medical case – although they haven’t gone to a doctor with their symptoms. And in a further layer of debunking they claim that they are not interested in absolute figures, but trends.

But this is also the Achilles heel of the debunkers’ claim. By showing that the test result is wildly influenced by nothing more scientific than a member of the public’s mood that day, they bring the whole Pillar 2 idea into disrepute. The average mood of the public in an area will be modulated by many things. People’s determination to queue in the rain is one example. Would you be more likely to do this with symptoms or without? So as the seasons change, the proportion of self-diagnosed people will change. That’s just a single example.

Pillar 2 testing is effectively a chart recorder connected to the weather, the news, local hysteria levels. It is influenced by its own presence. It is influenced by government policy announcements. It is influenced by unemployment; Rishi Sunak’s latest furlough scheme; traffic jams. In short, its results are spurious, and it has taken the ‘debunking’ to reveal this so clearly.

151372 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Barney McGrew, 10, #382 of 1704 🔗

The once in a while I watch news, was just after lockdowns were introduced in Bolton?.
All the people they interviewed outside the testing station were there to prove they are negative. They worked as carers, were students, who had come into contact with a +person.
The policy of having to prove you are negative I think is ramping up the test numbers. Considering that 98% or so of tests are “truly” negative, this shows you why people get tested.

151512 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Silke David, 2, #383 of 1704 🔗

Having to prove you are negative is all part of the Moonshot programme, to ‘allow’ you to go out to work, socialise – essentially to participate in everyday life..

151392 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #384 of 1704 🔗

It is also the argument used against Ioannidis with their FaceBook survey and then test study. Even though the authors then adjusted the sample for bias.

Strange how self-selection seems to work for one type of argument but not another

151452 ▶▶▶ James, replying to mhcp, #385 of 1704 🔗


151364 Silke David, 24, #386 of 1704 🔗

This is a bit off topic, but it is so ridiculous. Yesterday, windy and 10c Degrees outside.
My coffeeshop, in a council run building, is accessed by “automatic doors”, but one has to press a button to open them. So to avoid countless people touching the button and spread the virus , we have had the doors open.
The council did not put the underfloor heating on, how we had any customers prepared to sit in such an inhospitable environment still baffles me, near the coffee machine and the cake display fridge, whose motor produces quite a bit of heat, it was 14C. I had to wear my own coat, as my employer could not supply me with a fleece jacket. Usually we had a stock of at least 3 to share amongst the staff working, but some selfish people used to take them home and have now gone to university and failed to return them.
Consequently I now have a little sniffles, and thankfully I quit yesterday, partly as I am not prepared to work a whole winter under these conditions, do not need to prove it is not Covid, but just a little cold.

I am livid with the government and the company (Sodexo). My manager was quite taken aback, she is trying her best to run a business under such difficult circumstances.

As my company made us take 10 days holiday in June, whilst on furlough, I had to wait to end of september to quit so I did not owe them any holiday.

As some might have seen yday, the T&T was what pushed me over the edge. One surreal encounter was: Wait for customer to put her face covering on (I never remind them), sanitise her hands, ask for T&T, please proceed to the counter to order your coffee in a paper cup, pay by card, take it to a table and once you have finished take it to the bin, so I can sanitise your table for 5 minutes. This is not why I work in hospitality!
As a German, I felt I was working in a DDR establishment (I grew up in the west, but am old enough to have experienced it).

151365 Jules, 10, #387 of 1704 🔗

Junk emails abound calling for participation in the “great download weekend”. For most people I know it is the “great f*%k off weekend”.

151366 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 3, #388 of 1704 🔗

Not all experts agree.

On Monday Sir Patrick said:-

>>>50,000 cases in the middle of October per day. 50,000 cases per day would be expected to lead a month later, so the middle of November say, to 200 plus deaths per day<<

A CFR of 0.4%

This morning on Radio 4’s Today programme Prof. Graham Medley who advises SAGE was of the view we have 10,000 ‘incidents’ already and this will lead to 100 deaths in three or four weeks.

A CFR of 1% – if by ‘incidents” he means the same as Sir Patrick’s “cases” – two and a half times higher!

At least Prof. Medley has nailed his colours to the mast the 100 deaths he predicts is in his view now unstoppable – the ‘rule of six’, pubs closing at 10 etc. can’t now stop it happening.

151437 ▶▶ bucky99, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #389 of 1704 🔗

And yet neither of those figures puts us in an unusual winter deaths position – the lack of context when they spout these numbers is criminal.

151368 tonyspurs, replying to tonyspurs, 22, #390 of 1704 🔗

I’ve seen the light !!! the mask is the biggest medical find in human history , there’s reports a blind man put a mask on and his sight was restored, also a covid victim was cremated with their mask on and he returned to full health from the ashes ! I even put a mask over my arthritic knee and in one hour I was cured we can never again live without a mask I love my mask embrace it’s magical powers and live forever…now where did I put my Sgt Pepper album????…Lucy in the sky tra la la

151379 ▶▶ Jules, replying to tonyspurs, 1, #391 of 1704 🔗

Having the monarch touch you is also thought to work.

151532 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Jules, #392 of 1704 🔗

Our Queen and Duke have disappeared, only the Prince and Princess of woke seem visible now. Is there a subliminal message somewhere ?

151373 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 6, #393 of 1704 🔗

Press been bought off again.
Every single National, full front page ad for NHS app.
No wonder they remain largely on-message.

151482 ▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to karenovirus, 5, #394 of 1704 🔗

Yeah, and it’s our taxes paying for those ads. I listen to Classic FM sometimes in the house, and generally remember to fling myself at the radio to switch it off just as the news comes on (bedwetting central). But yesterday, EVEN THE PRESENTER was wittering on about the ‘Great Download Weekend’. So no more Classic FM until this is over.

How about ‘NO’.

152515 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Miss Owl, 1, #395 of 1704 🔗

I’ve boycotted Classic FM since they posted something about BLM. I don’t miss them.

152554 ▶▶▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Bart Simpson, #396 of 1704 🔗

It seems so many (micro)celebrities have taken the government’s shilling in crappy pop-up ads all over the place that exort one to download ‘the app’ to save blah blah blah. Even that previously-enfant-terrible Ginger Chris Evans is now on the take from the establishment.

151492 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to karenovirus, 2, #397 of 1704 🔗

Money is the root of all evil.

151374 Humanity First, replying to Humanity First, 6, #398 of 1704 🔗

Boris will reveal UK’s plan in a speech to the UN later today:

“The five point plan, developed with the Wellcome Trust and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, aims to identify dangerous pathogens which could make the leap between animals and humans before they lead to COVID-like pandemics.”


(Where have we heard the “we must all work together” message before?)

151503 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Humanity First, 6, #399 of 1704 🔗

Bought by Gates, increasing UK contribution to the WHO – he must go!
When did we elect Bill Gates to determine UK policy?

151375 kh1485, 17, #400 of 1704 🔗

Today is a sad day. All three staff, muzzled up because “it’s the rules” I effing despair …

Edit: just two of them, but that’s bad enough. The third has been convinced not to wear ….

151381 NorthumbrianNomad, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 22, #401 of 1704 🔗

Just read the (slightly encouraging) piece in the FT about the parliamentary amendment, but the Downing Street spokesman is STILL PARROTING that discredited old rubbish about “protecting the NHS”. It’s all back to front, inside out and upside down. “Stay at home. Protect the NHS. Save lives.” “Stay at home. Don’t get your heart attack treated. Protect the NHS.” “Stay at home. Die quietly. Protect the NHS.” Protect the NHS from what? Overload? No: the hospitals are empty and the Nightingales are mothballed. The only things the NHS is being protected from are (1) actually having to treat patients, (2) being criticized in any way and (3) being replaced by a proper, grown-up system like Germany’s or Switzerland’s that actually works.

I swear, if I hear one more person say “our [wonderful] NHS” I will not be responsible for my actions.

151385 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 2, #402 of 1704 🔗

What a wonderful NHS!

151391 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Steeve, 4, #403 of 1704 🔗

Now you’ve gone and done it.

151399 ▶▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 2, #404 of 1704 🔗

Any collateral damage?

151387 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 7, #405 of 1704 🔗

If I were a conspiracy theorist, and left wing, I might be tempted to see this as a deliberate ploy to destroy public support for the NHS in preparation for privatisation.

151389 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Ovis, 4, #406 of 1704 🔗

If so, it’s not working. It’s a doomsday cult. Any day now they’ll be restarting the Give The Clap to Carers thing, or whatever it was called.

151404 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 2, #407 of 1704 🔗

I’d expect a much reduced turnout this time, and not just because it’s now dark at 8pm.

151434 ▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Ovis, 1, #408 of 1704 🔗

Protect Serco! Destroy the NHS!

151458 ▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Ovis, 3, #409 of 1704 🔗

The NHS is a text book example of producer interest

151602 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Strange Days, 2, #410 of 1704 🔗

And Serco, GSK etc. etc. aren’t?

As a frequent flier, I can say that the notion is nonsense.

What is true is that the politicalisation of the top management is a major problem.

Now look at the succession of governments that have been making those political appointments : precisely the same ones that were keen on handing public subsidy to Serco, Crapita and the like – and recently have been filling advisory posts with representatives of the Big Pharma interests..

Quod erat …

151955 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to RickH, #411 of 1704 🔗

Mmmm, its the chronic refusal to look at the huge variety of Bismarkian social insurance models used in every country from Iceland to Austria to Japan that gets me.
Classic not invented here syndrome.
One thing is for sure, no other country in the world has adopted the NHS model, for a very good reason, they took one look at UK

151488 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Ovis, #412 of 1704 🔗

Yes I too thought of that angle. The NHS has been badly managed for decades and has become politicised, it’s costs a fortune to run and we don’t get value for money, just like the police force the Left has destroyed this too. Common Purpose is a cancer that has infected every institution in this country. In a few years this country will be unrecognisable, so sad.

151591 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Bella Donna, #413 of 1704 🔗


This tendency to duck the reality in favour of ‘It’s the Left’ is a truly amazing meme that parallels the myths around Covid.

152529 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, #414 of 1704 🔗

“Thank you NHS” and “Our Wonderful NHS” are two statements that will make me want to slit my wrists or grab a machete or AK-47 and run amok.

151383 Steeve, replying to Steeve, #415 of 1704 🔗

It’s time for you to play a starring role – NHS APP

151393 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Steeve, 3, #416 of 1704 🔗

NHS Track & Trace – built by Apple, crappified by PHE.

151470 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Steeve, 1, #417 of 1704 🔗

No thanks.

151395 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #418 of 1704 🔗

Hi all

Please do your best to get a few non-sceptics you know to complete the survey over the weekend https://www.covid19assembly.org/covid19-survey

At the moment only 5% of respondents are non-sceptics so we need a lot more to get a statistically representative sample.

Please do you best. Thanks!

151401 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #419 of 1704 🔗

Composing a list now and will send out today.

151432 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #420 of 1704 🔗

Just filled. A couple of suggestions, if you’re trying to attract non sceptics. Maybe some parts of the survey are skewed to being anti lockdown, so might put them off?
Also I think you should disclose a little more info on the point of the survey and it’s goals?

151398 Humanity First, 1, #421 of 1704 🔗

The Covidean Creed
(As Agreed at the Unholy Conclave at Davos)
Ian Jenkins

We believe in one Virus, the SARS-COV-2, the Almighty, destroyer of heaven and earth, that is all there is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Malady, Covid-19, the only son of SARS-COV-2, eternally begotten of the Virus, God from God, Darkness from Darkness, true God from true God, begotten, not made (probably) of one Being with the Virus.

For diseases are they none but the One True Virus and Death comes not without Its presence. Thou shalt have no diseases before the One True Virus. They that die outside the Virus shall not have their passing told unto the people on a quotidian basis in hushed tones, but shall be quietly recorded in obscure tables when the time come….

(Full text of the Creed available here: https://off-guardian.org/2020/09/26/the-covidean-creed/ )

151406 Basics, replying to Basics, 13, #422 of 1704 🔗

I am still not getting it. Sorry. I just don’t understand.

Please draw pictures, talk down, spell out how the effing eff does the idea of me needing a vaccine to protect others work?

I was content with the skewed concept related kindly by LS commenters perviously. I didn’t agree with it, but then the official reasoning is skewed towards healthy vaccine markets anyway (quite literally it is not economically viable to produce vaccines for say 100,000 people).

But that Devi one spent all last week decrying herd immunity. No good, useless she spouted across social media national and properly national press, she even went so far as to have here handlers get her onto bbc Bruce sits with Questions to spout.

So herd immunity is bad until we have a vaccine (+bonus free ID tracking system), then herd immunity is good and we all must have at least one jag if not two or three.

I mean, come the very fuck on – how is anybody accepting that to make sense?

Herd immunity is akin to letting a wild virus “rip through” the community and therefore represents a risk unacceptable to humankind, so devi and others say. So the untried, improperly tested, dna altering manufactured vaccine represents a far lesser risk? Clear medical psychosis is at work – unknown risk versus know risk.

It is not a viable informed position in which to make a decision. Yet there we are, predetermined by governments around the world pre buying billions of pounds of vaccines.

To cover their incompetence? Really.

GAVI – to ensure a healthy vaccine market. What we all are is that market. They cannot warp speed billions of vaccines without payment to R&D the things. The only question is whether the governments will allow dissenters from avoiding the vaccine. Living alongside those vaccinated people looks set to be unpleasant, curtailed freedom of movement. But why curtailed when all those who want to be are vaccinated and genetically modified to their own hearts and their future children’s content?

I cannot compute the herd immunity bad vaccinated herd immunity good. If you can lend a hand and explain I would be grateful.

151416 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Basics, 4, #423 of 1704 🔗

I completely agree – the only person a vaccine helps is the person vaccinated in this instance. A virus doesn’t avoid the hands of those vaccinated so they can still spread the virus in the same way as now surely? Or am I being thick? Happy to concede if i am.

151490 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to CGL, 2, #424 of 1704 🔗

Although a live attenuated vaccine there is the known shedding increase of tetraflu(?) Where the associated warnings suggest vaccinated folk ought to keep away from medically compromised people for a period of six days. The info goes further to say a judgement needs to be made about administering the vaccine to vulnerable people against the chances of them encountering wild flu. Better not have tge vaccine than have it is my conclusion in those situations. So there is a viral visk having a vaccine.

This is pronouncedly different from an RNA vaccine or a concern about the additives of vaccine technology, adjuvants.

151428 ▶▶ JohnMac, replying to Basics, 1, #425 of 1704 🔗

Or rather, why has someone marked this down?

151816 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Basics, 1, #426 of 1704 🔗

it can`t be explained. vaccines =poisonous toxicity. sometimes damage, sometime death. never good.

151408 JohnMac, replying to JohnMac, 6, #427 of 1704 🔗

Is it just me, or are other people less interested than they would have been a few years ago in the killing of the police officer in Croydon? I don’t feel that the police are on my side any more, so I don’t feel the same towards them.

151411 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to JohnMac, 6, #428 of 1704 🔗

Its tragic, and could have been avoided, the police don’t even seem to have each other’s backs. Down to morale etc, and lousy politicians.

151430 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to JohnMac, 10, #429 of 1704 🔗

I haven’t felt they’re on my side since I saw them beating innocent students at a perfectly peaceful house party, then using it as a training exercise by baton charging empty streets in the area. And then when they broke an innocent student’s arm with a baton because he was trying to protect a girl when a policeman went to smack her with a baton, they spent two years harassing him to try and deter him from seeking compensation… he eventually got £70k but they did not make it easy.

It was South Yorkshire police to be fair, and they’re widely known as some of the worse even within the police force (heard this anecdotally from two police officers).

151455 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Tee Ell, 14, #430 of 1704 🔗

I haven’t felt they were on my side since the time I was being harassed by two yobs at home. When I called the station (about a mile away, when they used to have small police stations), I was told by a female operator, “call us back if they injure you”.

151436 ▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to JohnMac, 13, #431 of 1704 🔗

As soon as they bent the knee and run away from BLM then Cressida Dicks views on shaming my respect went to zero

151467 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to JohnMac, 8, #432 of 1704 🔗

I’ve said the same thing. The police have lost any respect I had for them some time ago. I look at our Establishment through very different eyes now. They don’t work for me and I don’t care for them!

152533 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bella Donna, #433 of 1704 🔗

Agree. I came to that conclusion a long time ago as I come from a third world country and there, the political establishment claim to work for the citizens but its a barefaced lie.

151505 ▶▶ Kelly deacons, replying to JohnMac, 4, #434 of 1704 🔗

Yes,I agree.

151580 ▶▶ RickH, replying to JohnMac, #435 of 1704 🔗

Actually – there is a link in terms of perception.

Of course – the death of the police officer is, for his family, an unmitigated tragedy.

But it is a vanishingly rare event of the type that the media will focus on.

Such, at a wider level, is the story of Covid.

Both play on the ‘Culture of Fear’.

151409 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 7, #436 of 1704 🔗

Sorry to go on about this FPR ‘debunking’, but I think I’ve identified a deep irony.

The reporting of surges in absolute ‘case’ numbers was already discredited, and I notice the papers had started to talk about the proportion of positive tests rising instead.

Well, the FPR ‘debunkers’ have just drawn attention to a new variable: a variable that modulates the proportion of positive tests. They have identified that you can get variation in the percentage of positive tests merely through self-selection of the people turning up for tests. They claim that symptoms versus no symptoms gives you a 5:1 variation, or maybe much more depending on the true FPR and the true incidence of virus in the community. All we have to do is to point out that the weather, just as one example, would vary the proportion of people who turn up with symptoms by a large degree.

If you ask me, the FPR debunkers have just discredited future Pillar 2 test results by highlighting a mechanism that most of us hadn’t thought of.

151417 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #437 of 1704 🔗

Ooh good – rather you explained it to them than me. I am lost when you clever people post all your workings and stats, even though I did A level maths (albeit in another century).

151441 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #438 of 1704 🔗

Funnily enough, that’s exactly what occurred to me too – especially now Handjob has told people that they should only get tested if they have symptoms, cue a massive rise in % positives.

151481 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #439 of 1704 🔗

I always struggled with statistics but I would have thought that there would have been a clear agreed and long established statistical method of dealing with a test that has a significant number of false +ve’s?
Basing such huge national policy decisions solely on a test where the experts cannot agree how to do the stats should ring alarm bells with the Government. This is not the first time in human history that a huge sophisticated edifice has been constructed on dodgy foundations of shifting sand.

We cannot easily challenge this testing system, alternative testing methods are complex and time consuming.
In my view we have to keep an eye on the evidence, hospital cases, deaths etc. and show that all this testing and hysteria is not resulting in deaths and illness..

The other side of this is why are so many people getting tested? I guess some have to for work, college & medical reasons but presumably many of these tests are voluntary? why would anybody in their right mind go anywhere near a Covid test centre or download this Covid app?

151670 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Steve Martindale, #440 of 1704 🔗

Exactly. Show us the shrouds.

151418 Basics, replying to Basics, 4, #441 of 1704 🔗


Boris, you’re sticking no vax in me – la la oo oo.

151433 ▶▶ 2 pence, replying to Basics, 1, #442 of 1704 🔗
151419 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 15, #443 of 1704 🔗

Ah back to blighty and the asylum.The short flight was not too bad although due to ” covid measures ” the snack was replaced by a bag of crisps and bottle of water. The flight attendant did recommend removing your face mask before putting on the oxygen mask in the unlikely event….

A couple near me were travelling bearback , good for them , and there was a gentleman and his partner forward of me who were hilariously wearing masks made of a plastic white fish net weave.with 1/2 cm diameter holes ! …I wonder if they read the LS ?

Today I have read that the Contact app will not work with iphone 6 ; sadly I have felt no need to upgrade my iphone 6 since purchase although the newer cameras are miles better and am quite content with my present one. . Oh well.

151501 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Peter Thompson, 3, #444 of 1704 🔗

Also doesn’t work on huawei phones, so my phone is now a huawei

151671 ▶▶ Lyra Silvertongue, replying to Peter Thompson, 2, #445 of 1704 🔗

Any chance we could compile a list of handsets that, tragically, the app won’t function on? I’m sure all of us have older generation phones in drawers somewhere that would still do the basic functions with a little dust off and maybe a new battery.

151742 ▶▶▶ Templeton, replying to Lyra Silvertongue, #446 of 1704 🔗

I popped round my mums to see if she still has the charger for my old nokia 3109.
Beast of a phone.

151422 tonyspurs, replying to tonyspurs, 38, #447 of 1704 🔗

My wife spoke to her Mum yesterday she’s worse than before since the new restrictions ,she wears mask and gloves in Tesco sprays her trolley before touching it she sprays any items before picking them up scolded someone who got too close and told a young man to wear a mask who promptly told her to mind her business and fuck off ,she’s blaming the young for going out in groups and very very tearful,as much as we try to calm her she just won’t listen to am alternative view , doesn’t help that my brother in law is a believer too
It’s outrageous how this government and the MSM have terrified the generation we’re supposed to be protecting,they need protecting from the constant 24hr fear mongering propaganda put out by the absolute shower of C**TS in power

151429 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to tonyspurs, 22, #448 of 1704 🔗

It’s hideous. This fear is everywhere. It’s terrorism.

151451 ▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to tonyspurs, 10, #449 of 1704 🔗

My mum was pretty much the same tonyspurs. Only just now starting to listen to what I have to say. I found if I got too insistent about masks etc. she shut me down. It is worth persevering, gently, gently you will get there. She seems happier now as well, so that is a bonus. It is terrible when they are so fearful and feel helpless. MSM has a lot to answer for.

151486 ▶▶ matt, replying to Sarigan, 4, #451 of 1704 🔗

He is.

Something that struck me: he says that he knows more about immunology than any SAGE member and points out that there isn’t a single immunologist in the group.

This may be true, I’m sure it is, but my question is why don’t epidemiologists know more about immunology? I understand about hyperspecialisation, but it would seem to me that a firm grasp of immunology would be absolutely key to being able to model an epidemic, no? Am I missing something?

151509 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to matt, #452 of 1704 🔗

Just forwarded it to my MP pointing this out.

151534 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to matt, 2, #453 of 1704 🔗

I’ve been saying this from the start. The whole concept of R0, SIR, etc. is based on a toy model that is suitable for educational purposes but very little else. But epidemiologists are then able to give you definite figures, like the herd immunity threshold and final size of an epidemic – based on their toy model. Immunologists simply defer to them on this, and don’t even try to see the flaws in the models. Immunologists know much more about what we don’t know, and what can’t be quantified. I suspect that epidemiologists would not be able to cope with the extra complexity and uncertainty.

151571 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Barney McGrew, #454 of 1704 🔗

A nice little narrative. Is there any evidence for it? Something like a statement from an immunologist saying “Oh, we just defer to the modellers”, or an epidemiologist saying “Oh, immunology’s too hard for me”. No, there isn’t. In fact it’s easy to deconstruct this argument. It goes like this

Lockdown is bad
Lockdown was caused by a model, therefore models are bad.
Models were built by epidemiologists, therefore epidemiologists are bad.
I don;t like model outputs, therefore model outputs are wrong.
Model outputs depend on inputs, therefore model inputs are wrong.
I would like to believe in pre-existing immunity, therefore immunity is the wrong input , therefore epidemiologists know nothing about immunity
Therefore SAGE immunologists weren’t there, or if they were, were afraid to speak up.
So lockdown is bad. QED

151668 ▶▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Richard Pinch, #455 of 1704 🔗

The answer is yes, there is evidence for it.

151708 ▶▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Richard Pinch, #456 of 1704 🔗

You might find this discussion very educational. A long interview with an actual immunologist. He tells you an awful lot of stuff that isn’t present in any shape or form in, say, a Ferguson model.


But listen particularly from about 58.30. This knowledgeable immunologist does exactly what I described: he defers to modellers to calculate the herd immunity threshold, and he offers no view whatsoever on their models.

151735 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Barney McGrew, #457 of 1704 🔗

he defers to modellers to calculate the herd immunity threshold

In other words, he defers to modellers to describe the outputs of their models.

151748 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Richard Pinch, #458 of 1704 🔗

Erm, yes. That’s what I originally wrote which you disputed and demanded evidence for. Let me remind you:

“epidemiologists are then able to give you definite figures, like the herd immunity threshold and final size of an epidemic – based on their toy model. Immunologists simply defer to them on this, and don’t even try to see the flaws in the models”

(Barney McGrew 26/09/20)

152195 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Barney McGrew, #459 of 1704 🔗

So you did.

151535 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to matt, -2, #460 of 1704 🔗

he knows more about immunology than any SAGE member and points out that there isn’t a single immunologist in the group

Interesting. From the list of SAGE participants:

  • Charles Bangham (Imperial College London)
  • Since 1987 I have studied the virology and immunology of persistent virus infections
  • Wendy Barclay (Imperial College London)
  • I acquired molecular virology skills as a postdoctoral fellow
  • Deborah Dunn-Walters (University of Surrey)
  • Professor of Immunology
  • Janet Lord (University of Birmingham)
  • Her own research focusses on the dysregulation of immunity in old age, in particular the decline in neutrophil function and how this compromises the response to infection and tissue injury.

… and I got bored after finding three immunologists and a virologist less than half-way down the list. Mike Yeadon may know more about immunology than any of these people but I would like to see some evidence of that.

151539 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #461 of 1704 🔗

Yeadon did stipulate “in the Spring phase of the pandemic” i.e. the crucial time when the narrative was created. Sorry.

151550 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Barney McGrew, #462 of 1704 🔗

Well, I can’t immediately find a list of who was on SAGE at that time, and I certainly can’t be bothered to read through every single set of minutes. I think the onus is now on anyone who wants me, or any other reader, to believe this rather bombastic remark, to find positive evidence for it.

151555 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Richard Pinch, #463 of 1704 🔗

So you’re not bothered about it, but at the same time you’re outraged by it? Just let it go…

151578 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Barney McGrew, -1, #464 of 1704 🔗

Outrage? No. I’m starting with the default position of paying the other posters the compliment of taking what they say seriously enough to do a little work. When it turns out that what they’re reporting is patently wrong, then the default flips to them having to do the work if they want to be convincing.

151632 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Richard Pinch, 3, #465 of 1704 🔗

Not really an issue. Generally, we have seen some remarkably poor science coming from the epidemiology, public health and virology disciplines. Has immunology generally done better? I don’t know. There has also been some good science about if looked for.

What I do know is that SAGE is a failed advisory group, too beholden to government.

One of the main factors in Sweden has been the separation of public health from government. I think that is significant, and necessary to avoid ‘brown nose’ syndrome.

151729 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to RickH, -1, #466 of 1704 🔗

Not really an issue.

there isn’t a single immunologist in [SAGE]”
“three immunologists and a virologist”
“not really an issue”

Not unless you believe that getting your facts straight is, somehow, important.

152478 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Richard Pinch, #467 of 1704 🔗

I get a bit irritated, frankly, by the tendency of this site to vote down and disregard voices that dissent from our shared narrative. We rely on being demonstrably and objectively right, so we should be prepared to test ourselves against other arguments. If we aren’t prepared to change our views, we’re no better than the people we’re against.

That said, this is interesting. But it begs the question: pre-existing immunity and cross immunity are now as close to established fact as makes no difference. Why are SAGE refusing to countenance that it might exist?

151559 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to matt, #468 of 1704 🔗

I’m more concerned that there doesn’t seem to be a decent metrologist in there. Precise and accurate data underpins this whole debacle and I would expect a metrologist would have taken the data to town

151567 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to matt, #469 of 1704 🔗

It’s worse that that – too many don’t understand basic scientific method and reasoning based on statistical reasoning.

151438 p02099003, 3, #470 of 1704 🔗

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54296567 testing children why? I suggest that this is down to schools demanding that children get tested because they have symptoms that are probably a cold, but could be CoViD19

151445 Biker, replying to Biker, 8, #471 of 1704 🔗

i thought i’d take this opportunity to be the 319th comment

151460 ▶▶ JohnMac, replying to Biker, 1, #472 of 1704 🔗

You’ve waited patiently all morning and picked your moment and successfully done it. Well done! Any particular reason why you wanted to be 319th?

151446 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 11, #473 of 1704 🔗

I would like people to find a picture of their MP’s in a face nappy and posts the pictures on here.
Anybody who gets a picture of them in some gloves AND a nappy is onto a winner, if any of you are lucky enough to be able to dig up an image of them with a nappy, gloves AND a visor, well, you should be hero for a day.

Bonus points will be given for the most eccentric PPE usage.

Goggles would be almost priceless.
Bring it ON!!!
It should be made a feature, politicians looking mental in their PPE gear.

So anybody want to see a photo of my MP in a flowery face nappy?

Or is this a crap idea.

151450 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Two-Six, 3, #474 of 1704 🔗

It will help with the deselection process when this is all over!

151463 ▶▶ shorthand, replying to Two-Six, 4, #475 of 1704 🔗

Nope, its a great idea. And if you write to them in future, you can always attach the offending photo, just to remind them of what bellends they generally are…

151469 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Two-Six, 1, #476 of 1704 🔗

Mine wears one with the pattern of the town flag on it…

151478 ▶▶ dpj, replying to Two-Six, 12, #477 of 1704 🔗

I can’t take this guy seriously after seeing this photo (taken outdoors!) comment image ?imwidth=450

151483 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to dpj, 10, #478 of 1704 🔗

This picture is exactly what I am thinking about…What a bell-end. What a collection of bell-ends….

Here is my governmental Bell End.

151499 ▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to dpj, #479 of 1704 🔗

I wanted Keir at the point Corbyn was running for leadership… now I realise he’s just some automaton. Really sad.

151502 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to dpj, 1, #480 of 1704 🔗

you could take him seriously before?????

151524 ▶▶ shorthand, replying to Two-Six, #481 of 1704 🔗

Couldn’t find one of mine, Dougie Ross, but I think he’s ok to be honest. So instead here’s one of my local Council Leader and SNP CoLeader, Graham Leadbitter. I think he looks ‘just perfect’ unmasked…..

151461 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 20, #482 of 1704 🔗

So the government acknowledges that the lockdown measures kill people. This is a significant admission. It means that they are effectively pleading guilty to having wilfully killed people in order to save other people, who they considered to be at risk from a natural phenomenon.

The significance of the admission is underlined and emphasised when one takes into consideration the facts: the average age of coronavirus related deaths is over eighty; and life expectancy is under eighty; and many of the people the governmental measures have killed (and will kill) are much younger, ie were not at or approaching the end of their life spans.

The admission is an admission of criminal behaviour. It is not an admission of making a mistake. As Matt Hancock revealed, the government introduced the lockdown measures without making any attempt to assess how many people would die as a result of those measures. All those complicit in the terrible coronavirus policy responses should be held criminally accountable. Now.

151468 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Steve Hayes, 7, #483 of 1704 🔗

The problem is, they and the pro-lockdowners only care about covid as a cause of death. Everything else is a necessary collateral to save lives and ensure as small a number of people as possible die of covid so that they can claim victory over the virus.

151476 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #484 of 1704 🔗

If one engages in a measure for some lawful purpose and it unforeseeably has an adverse effect, one could characterise that as collateral damage. However, in this case, the adverse consequences were all too foreseeable. This is, of course, why the government choose not to make any assessment of how many people would die as a result of their lockdown measures: they were being wilfully blind – and wilful blindness is not a defence.

151495 ▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #485 of 1704 🔗

I thought there was an estimate published in April of the likely cost of lockdown in avoidable deaths: 200,000 was the figure then. Today’s estimate is a significant downward revision (finessing?).

151517 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Ovis, 2, #486 of 1704 🔗

I think you are referring to a report dated 8 April 2020. This report did include that estimate, but only surfaced after it was mentioned (either by Whitty or Valance) in a Select Committee in late May.

And yes the two hundred thousand figure is much more realistic, but even that report was at pains to minimise the number.

151523 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Steve Hayes, #487 of 1704 🔗

Yes. That’s the one. 🙂

151596 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Steve Hayes, #489 of 1704 🔗

Mine doesn’t need a mask

comment image ?itok=6TrEJs2D

151599 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, #490 of 1704 🔗

Sorry should be on thread below

152658 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sarigan, #491 of 1704 🔗

Find one of that dick wearing a face nappy, please. Gloves and a visor would be brilliant

151489 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #492 of 1704 🔗

A sunk cost. It only makes our leaders more committed to the war on Covid.

151462 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 2, #493 of 1704 🔗

If antibodies are produced approximately 4 weeks after infection and then hang around for about 3 months before filing their information in the person’s immune system library, for later use if needed, then disappearing – then;

Why not antibody blood test a shed load of people who have tested positive (claimed as cases) 2 to 3 months ago – then we will know the approximate percentage of people have some sort of prior immunity without developing antibodies?

151474 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Major Panic, 3, #494 of 1704 🔗

Agree with the general sentiment, but you’d need to go further. You need to separate Ig-A from Ig-G / Ig-M, and you’d also need to look at CD4+ T-cell presence.

You’d also need to look at nasal swabs, tear ducts etc., not just blood serum levels.

Hendrick Streeck and Soo Aleman have done some brilliant work in this area.

151562 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Tee Ell, 1, #495 of 1704 🔗

So there are simple ways to challenge Vallance & Fauci’s claims that 90% of their respective populations still being susceptible to c19 because only 10% show presence of antibodies?

151689 ▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Major Panic, 2, #496 of 1704 🔗

Far cheaper too. Instead of £100bn on Moonshot, just spend £1bn on this sort of small scale random population testing and extrapolate from there.

Except they know this doesn’t require printing obscene sums of money, and they can’t steal from us and give to their corrupt friends. So I don’t think they’ll want to do it.

As far as I’m concerned, those claims are already refuted. We don’t need to do any more research to prove it – it’s already fact.

151464 Cheezilla, 1, #497 of 1704 🔗

My MP, speaking in the HofC on behalf of his constituents.
No answer but a bit of rehearsed propaganda from de Piffle.

Note the despair and cynicism in the comments!
Surely they can’t get away with this for much longer?


151471 NickR, 3, #498 of 1704 🔗

Rate of Change
This chart compares the rate of change of the 2 supposed waves.
Wave 1 starts from 1st March.
Wave 2 starting on 10th August.
Even allowing a 3 week delay between infection & death there’s not much sign that the 2nd wave is going to do what the 1st wave did……. amongst the, mainly 80+ year olds with severe pre-existing conditions.

151472 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 18, #499 of 1704 🔗

Remember those cruise ships back in March, anchored off Japan, the passengers unable to disembark and experiencing a living hell? Well that’s what’s now been visited upon some students in England, and all students in Scotland. Bastard government!

151485 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Tenchy, 7, #500 of 1704 🔗

We are lab rats, faceless, voiceless lab rats

151475 Tom Blackburn, 14, #501 of 1704 🔗

2 things

Firstly, the nation’s mindset has – by and large – been moulded that Ch4 Dispatches programme that EVERYONE watched while still properly locked down. This needs updating pronto.

Secondly, these London rallies need to start being unashamedly populist. It won’t go down well with Piers but I think belting out Rule Britannia and Land of Hope and Glory could really build a national movement.

151479 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 8, #502 of 1704 🔗

HS Covid-19: App users unable to input negative tests
People who test negative for Covid-19 are unable to share the result with the new NHS app for England and Wales if they did not book the test through the app in the first place.
The app asks for a code to register a test result but a code is only received if the test is positive.
Those who enter that they have symptoms without entering a result find a self-isolation countdown begins.’

How’s the ‘world-beating’ test and trace system going, Messrs Johnson and Hancock?

151500 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to Poppy, 2, #503 of 1704 🔗

The same way as the “giants” in his cabinet.

151566 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Poppy, 2, #504 of 1704 🔗

I bet they are.

We all know those tests are good for nothing but a positive result.

151480 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #505 of 1704 🔗

Andrew Marr last Sunday prosecuted an excellent interview of Hancock. Specifically Marr goes for Hancock on the efficacy of lockdowns citing Oldham in lockdown for 4 weeks but with cases doubled in that period. Hancock answers the enfircement of the Oldham lockdown needs to be stronger. There is much more meat in the interview which can be found at 24 mins here with Allen at his surgical best – https://youtu.be/z9vy8uGQ2gI

151513 ▶▶ tallandbald, replying to Basics, 8, #506 of 1704 🔗

Why won’t one of these journo interviewers turn around to an answer like that and say… “You just don’t get it do you Handcock, you can’t admit lockdowns don’t work. You are a disgrace. Get out my studio.”

I’d give away my car to see that happen.

151592 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to tallandbald, 2, #507 of 1704 🔗

Marr did a bit of that. Really. I know it’s not usual. But on this occasion the interview did go like that.

151491 Edward, replying to Edward, 13, #508 of 1704 🔗

“Masks appear like mushrooms,
spores of panic spread”
– stencilled on to the pavement outside the council offices, a favourite spot for demonstrations. There was another stencil about the TV causing fear. I would prefer a more direct statement like “Fuck the government”, but that would be scrubbed sooner.

Most but not all retail staff now masked as instructed. On a meat stall in the market hall the staff say they don’t like wearing them – I suggested they should claim exemption on the grounds of distress, but as it’s a council-run facility they’ll be under pressure to comply.

A café had a pompously worded sign about track and trace including “If you deem this unnecessary, please use another facility”.

All newspapers today have a wraparound about the NHS app.

As others have already suggested, I think some people with boring lives are almost revelling in the drama of masks, queuing, track and trace etc.

151507 ▶▶ Aldebaran, replying to Edward, 14, #509 of 1704 🔗

Yes, I’m more and more thinking that a lot of people really like all this drama. The opportunities for smug gittery are almost endless and there’s a certain type of person who will enjoy the fuss. I hope they’re not the majority, but in my depressed moments I start to wonder.

152555 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Edward, #510 of 1704 🔗

A café had a pompously worded sign about track and trace including “If you deem this unnecessary, please use another facility”.

In that case, we should grant this cafe’s desire and boycott it. They should be aware that they can easily go in the way off Yorkshire Tea whose similar tweet went down like a lead balloon.

151493 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 12, #511 of 1704 🔗

I wonder what would of happened if last year hadn’t been a benign flu season. The low hanging fruit has been picked off in March and probably would of done so this year anyway.

Convenient for those in charge? do they know this and have had carte blanche to make our lives a misery?

151531 ▶▶ RickH, replying to stefarm, 4, #512 of 1704 🔗

I noticed this when analysing mortality over a 27-year period : the ‘balance’ between the mortality levels in 2018/19 and 2019./20 was so striking. A quick calculation showed that the average mortality lay almost exactly at the median level for the 27 years.

As a follow-up, I looked at mortality in two-year blocks over that period. The resulting was an amazingly smooth curve (better than even a 5-year moving average) – suggesting an underlying regularity of this ‘balancing’ effect as a major component of mortality.

151560 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to RickH, 2, #513 of 1704 🔗

It’s Ivor Cummins vid in one comment. Thanks for this. It has been awfully convenient for them hasn’t it.

151494 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 28, #514 of 1704 🔗

Whilst waiting for orders to deliver in the Chinese takeaway I deliver for, I have noticed more people wearing facing nappies and more people tutting in my direction, presumably for KILLING GRANNY!!, as I don’t wear a nappy.

I have had to point out to a few that, after taking their change and using the hand sanitiser, they use the pathogen laden door handle to exit the building.

Fuckin idiots!

151528 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 3, #515 of 1704 🔗

I have also discovered this morning that, even though I am exempt anyway, I am not effected by latest legislation;

Legislation – Statutory instruments – 2020 – No. 791

Part 2 – 3. (2A) – The exceptions from the requirement to wear a face covering provided in regulation 3(2)(b) or (c) do not apply to any person who, when acting in the course of their employment or providing services under arrangements made with the person responsible for the relevant place, is in any part of a relevant place listed in Schedule 3 which is open to the public,
and comes or likely to come within close contact of any member of the public.

and as I don’t come into ”close contact” with the public as defined…

What is considered as a ‘close contact’?
Examples of close contact include: close face to face contact (under 1 metre) for any length of time – including talking to them or coughing on them. being within 1 to 2 metres of each other for more than 15 minutes – including travelling in a small vehicle. spending lots of time in your home, such as cleaning it.


151608 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Major Panic, 6, #516 of 1704 🔗

Law or Fiction have updated their guidance – basically anyone with low mood is exempt ie everyone

151496 Mrs issedoff, replying to Mrs issedoff, 29, #517 of 1704 🔗

I’m usually a tough old bird but will admit to my fellow sceptics that I have just had a weep. I can’t stand to see what the evil bastards are doing to this country and I amhaving a really bad morning. I hope all those stay safe down in London, standing up to the tyranny and lies. I just feel that the police will have been told to be tough and will use that to their advantage.

151527 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Mrs issedoff, 5, #518 of 1704 🔗

Yes – I cried to myself in a 2 hour apptmt at the hairdressers yesterday. I couldn’t hold it back.

151615 ▶▶ annie, replying to Mrs issedoff, 10, #519 of 1704 🔗

We can only sympathise. We all know how you feel.
If you weren’t upset at this evil, there would be something wrong with you. Your tears are blest.
Keep strong. We will come through this.

151793 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Mrs issedoff, 4, #520 of 1704 🔗

I was having one of those days yesterday. You`re not alone. hugs

151497 Aldebaran, replying to Aldebaran, 22, #521 of 1704 🔗

Aldebaran v The Post Office, round 2

Yesterday I posted a description of my encounter at the local Post Office where I was refused service, not because I was exempt from wearing a mask, but because I wasn’t wearing a lanyard. I was told to come back because the manager wasn’t in yesterday.

So, I armed myself with lots of bits of relevant paper and went forth this morning to speak to the manager. Someone asked yesterday where I found all the paperwork, and fortunately the answer is very easy and straightforward: those excellent people at http://www.laworfiction.com provide all you need either on their website or by link to sources of government information.

And how did it go, I hear you ask? Well, not brilliantly. I did manage to keep calm and confident throughout the encounter but I got nowhere. I showed the manager the relevant bit of government guidance where it says that exempt people are not obliged to wear any badge or similar item. I may have mentioned the Third Reich…..

Her counterarguments to this ran as follows:

  1. It’s her shop and she gets to decide the rules. She has instructed her staff not to serve anyone exempt unless they are wearing a lanyard.
  2. The Post Office Federation has told its members that they can take such action.
  3. Wearing a lanyard shows respect to other customers who are masked [I know, I know, what utter bollocks….]
  4. Point 3 is particularly important for those masked customers who are with small children who may be unmasked. Such customers are especially worried.

I pretty much gave up at point 4. When somebody brings up the ‘why won’t somebody think of the children’ argument, then all hope of rational discussion is lost.

Does anyone here know anything about the position of the Post Office Federation on this point? I can’t imagine that any large organisation, presumably equipped with lawyers, would sanction breaking the law like this.

This was a bruising encounter. Thinking it over afterwards, I think the particularly difficult aspect was that she was radiating smug self-righteousness. She also told me that a number of nearby shopkeepers are taking a similar line. In fact, I’ve noticed that one nearby shop has a sign on the door saying that face masks must be worn and that there are no exemptions. Obviously, I will never set foot in that shop again, but the Post Office is a different matter as I need their services.

151511 ▶▶ court, replying to Aldebaran, 6, #522 of 1704 🔗

I don’t do the post office. You can print your postage at home and drop in a postbox/parcel box. They’ll even collect anything from your house up to ‘medium parcel’ for 72p per item https://send.royalmail.com/

151516 ▶▶▶ Aldebaran, replying to court, 5, #523 of 1704 🔗

Yes, you’re right. I discovered this service during lockdown when the Post Office was open only twice a week for two hours a time and very useful it is too. But unfortunately, to send stuff that I’ve sold on ebay I need a proof of postage. Also sending stuff to family abroad needs customs declarations. Believe me, if I could do all of this on line I most definitely would.

151542 ▶▶▶▶ court, replying to Aldebaran, 5, #524 of 1704 🔗

Of course, that’s bally annoying. With my expensive eBay stuff I use parcelmonkey or parcel2go now and get them picked up. I get my quotes in before listing so I don’t lose out.

I won’t darken the PO door again.

151546 ▶▶▶▶▶ Aldebaran, replying to court, 2, #525 of 1704 🔗

Well, that’s a good idea! Thanks.

151593 ▶▶▶ Nsklent, replying to court, #526 of 1704 🔗

Thanks for that, as I warned to send a parcel.

151650 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to court, #527 of 1704 🔗

I didn’t know that, thanks. I’ll bear that in mind.

151553 ▶▶ Kelly deacons, replying to Aldebaran, 6, #528 of 1704 🔗

Had the same problem yesterday at a charity junk shop. I emailed a complaint to head office,received a reply apologising,asking for further details,time of incident,description of staff member….so they could pass it on to CEO..will see what they come back with ,

151554 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Aldebaran, 16, #529 of 1704 🔗

They really are all insisting on making us wear those Jew Stars, aren’t they?

151623 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Farinances, 8, #530 of 1704 🔗

Unfortunately, yes. I get the distinct impression that it’s precisely that.

It’s making us hate one another, with the express support and encouragement from government ministers.
We absolutely need another party to vote for, because I am never going to vote for this bunch of dangerous clowns again. Or Labour.

151570 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Aldebaran, 4, #531 of 1704 🔗

They don’t appear to have a leg to stand on according to the latest post:


Love it that they point out that the queues to enter supermarkets are in fact illegal!

151616 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Aldebaran, 2, #532 of 1704 🔗

What about other customers or the Post Office showing respect to you? Or does it only go in one direction??

151644 ▶▶▶ Aldebaran, replying to Lms23, 6, #533 of 1704 🔗

Yes, just in one direction. The next logical stage in this is that those of us without face coverings are seen as ‘less than’ or ‘other’, and then it’s a slippery slope towards treating us as sub-human. And we all know where that ends….

151678 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Aldebaran, 4, #534 of 1704 🔗

This sounds like disability discrimination to me though I’m not legally qualified. I can’t see any grounds for refusal of service if you say have an exemption . Worth taking up with the Post Office Federation https://www.nfsp.org.uk/ if you have the stamina or you could try https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/

151786 ▶▶▶ Aldebaran, replying to arfurmo, 1, #535 of 1704 🔗

Thanks. I emailed the Post Office Federation about this a couple of hours ago. I’ll post a comment if I get any reply from them.

151684 ▶▶ Steve, replying to Aldebaran, 6, #536 of 1704 🔗

It was fairly clear yesterday that most members of staff (including supervisors) at our store have no clue what the law is regarding face masks and exemptions, let alone the equality and anti discrimination laws.

151691 ▶▶ shorthand, replying to Aldebaran, 3, #537 of 1704 🔗

I reckon over time this will change as crime rates start to spiral due to economic hardship and post offices get more frequently held up by masked raiders. They’ll be begging you not to wear one…..

152564 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to shorthand, #538 of 1704 🔗

Yep. They will lobby the government to reinstate those laws banning face coverings.

152015 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Aldebaran, #539 of 1704 🔗

Considering in the time you have stood there and arguments went back and forth, your transaction could have been handled twice and less time spent “contaminating” the air.

152191 ▶▶▶ Aldebaran, replying to Silke David, #540 of 1704 🔗

Yes, that’s what I thought. But none of this is anything remotely to do with logic or sense, is it?
I’ve just looked up the next nearest Post Office branch and I’ll try going there instead when I absolutely need to.

151519 Biggles, replying to Biggles, 10, #541 of 1704 🔗

I live in Darlington which currently is not part of the restricted area of the north east that was announced recently.

Earlier this week I noticed that a new Covid-19 testing station had sprung up in a car park near my home. This set the alarm bells ringing so it was no surprise to discover this morning that Darlington has been put on the watch list along with most of Teesside. So we will now be in lockdown within a matter of days. It really is so predictable but from the comments in the local paper, the sheep still blame the ‘covidiots’. They don’t do irony, do they?

151537 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Biggles, 3, #542 of 1704 🔗

Has anyone done a timeline of testing stations opening vs cases in those areas?

151564 ▶▶▶ Biggles, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #543 of 1704 🔗

I very much doubt it! I only noticed the new station on Tuesday. It might have been set up a few days before that.

151541 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Biggles, 5, #544 of 1704 🔗

My thoughts exactly when I got an email from a university near Gloucester to say there would be a testing station in one of their car parks this weekend. Bad luck Gloucester was my first thought

151612 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Biggles, 9, #545 of 1704 🔗

I strongly suspect that the comments in the local paper are heavily curated and censored.
It’s like on LBC this morning, where some sanctimonious, virtue signalling bully was recounting how he’d been demanding of others (may have been on public transport) why they weren’t wearing a mask, with a very positive response from Andrew Castle who said he’d make an excellent Covid Marshal. That had the pr*** preening in delight, saying that “thousands” are dying every day from CV19, so we all had to follow the rules, etc..
What an absolute and utter f****** idiot.
33 deaths were announced for yesterday by NHS England.
Exactly where are these daily “thousands” dying from CV19, because it isn’t in this country?

151619 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Lms23, 4, #546 of 1704 🔗

It isn’t anywhere.

151961 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Lms23, #547 of 1704 🔗

That’s it! I knew it was going to happen, I just hadn’t seen any evidence of it yet. People got so used to hearing the doom daily death count, that when they switched the narrative to cases, people still think they’re talking about deaths. I knew it!

151730 ▶▶ David, replying to Biggles, 1, #548 of 1704 🔗

Rugby Club? Just noticed myself. Hi from Darlington!

151750 ▶▶▶ Biggles, replying to David, 1, #549 of 1704 🔗

That’s the one. They seem to like rugby clubs as there’s been one at the Arena for ages.

151780 ▶▶▶▶ David, replying to Biggles, 1, #550 of 1704 🔗

Yes, that barely ever had a single testee in it on the occasions I passed. Check it out now! Apparently it’s been repurposed for flu vaccination purposes, and looks like an explosion in a traffic calming factory.

151923 ▶▶▶▶▶ Biggles, replying to David, #551 of 1704 🔗

I had a text a couple of weeks ago from Blacketts offering several options on the flu jab. Decided to give it a miss this year!

151520 Caramel, 5, #552 of 1704 🔗

The 50,000 cases a day in the UK is bad modelling but is a much better projection than bloody 58,000 per day in Victoria which obviously has a much smaller population and different seasons.

151521 Hester, replying to Hester, 28, #553 of 1704 🔗

Just read the link to the Bel Mooney column in the Mail. I think the examples she sites admirably demonstrate what horrors normal decent human beings can be driven to under the pressure of State sponsored fear. This is exactly what is happening now.
For the life of me I cannot understand the mentality of the Parents of those young people in Scottish universities who are being held in incarceration, under the direction of Nicola Sturgeon. Why are they not as a group marching on the university and rescuing their Children?, at what point will they step in to protect them?
I sadly predict that a couple of these young people will attempt suicide in despair, will that be the straw that breaks the camels back?, will that call a halt to this madness? or will their deaths be covered over and notched up as Covid 19.
What has become of us, what kind of people have we become that we are imprisoning our children

151545 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Hester, 16, #554 of 1704 🔗

Any parent who isn’t collecting their kid from uni right now has something wrong with them.

151568 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Farinances, 7, #555 of 1704 🔗

They shouldn’t have sent them back in the first place.

151595 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Two-Six, 12, #556 of 1704 🔗

Didn’t they go to uni this year before the new regulations were announced, i.e. after they’d taken the fees?
I knew this would happen to the students, but then I’ve been paying attention to what’s been happening in Canada and the U.S.. Our university administrators wouldn’t want to feel left out in treating their students like hardened criminals to be punished.
If the students and parents have any sense, they’d leave the universities, and sue to get their money back in a class action.

151706 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Two-Six, #557 of 1704 🔗

True. It was pretty obvious what was gonna happen

151661 ▶▶▶ Old Bill, replying to Farinances, 8, #558 of 1704 🔗

Agree wholeheartedly. What is the point of university anyway? Hell, even before this shit storm hit most graduates were flipping burgers, by the time it all over (if ever) there will be nowhere left to flip them.

Teach them to be bank robbers instead. If they are good at it they will be set up for life, if they get caught, the prison experience will be no different to being at uni anyway and they might even learn a trade whilst banged up.

152650 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Old Bill, #559 of 1704 🔗

Banks dont have any cash in them anymore

151994 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Hester, 3, #560 of 1704 🔗

Oh please. They’re 18. Old enough to vote, marry, fly a plane, die in battle. And plenty more. They don’t need helicopter parents to rescue them.
50+ years ago, noone delivered me in a car with a load of utensils and electronics to university. I set off by train on a long journey hoping my bike and trunk would arrive at some point. No phones, no contact with parents except a weekly letter. Independent at last! Let’s not infantilise them.

151526 mwhite, replying to mwhite, 10, #561 of 1704 🔗

Fraser Nelson in the Telegraph points out that Chris Whitty rejects the immunity idea because, he says, people aren’t immune to colds and so it is probably short-lived.”


The common cold can be caused by more than 200 different viruses. Around 50 percent of colds are caused by rhinoviruses, other cold-causing viruses include:

I have read that some bacterial infections can also give the symptoms of the common cold.

So 200 or more causes of the common cold + influenza viruses (I’ve never had Flu, probably passes as a cold)

No wonder people aren’t immune from the common cold?

151536 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to mwhite, 13, #562 of 1704 🔗

Isn’t the relevant point that if you are regularly exposed to all the various cold viruses your body builds up resistance to getting severe symptoms. But if you live in a hermetically sealed bubble or in a newly discovered Amazon forest tribe and encounter a cold virus for the first time ever you may well get very sick and some of you may die.

151548 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to The Spingler, 14, #563 of 1704 🔗

You are employing reason, logic and experience. Such activity is banned under government Covid regulations.

151540 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to mwhite, 4, #564 of 1704 🔗

If you ‘reject’ immunity, you must also reject the idea of an efficient vaccine.
Rejecting the (anyway only theoretical) idea of herd immunity is a different story- see Gatti, Morinati or RKjr CHD on that one.

151577 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to mwhite, 2, #565 of 1704 🔗

Once no doubt the common cold would have caused severe illness or death, as was found when countries were discovered by exploreres centuries ago and indigenous populations suffered . We now have a robust level of immunity thus the insignificant symptoms of the cold. Guess Whitty is more interested in his monetary benefits from a mass vaccine campaign.

151587 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Nsklent, 1, #566 of 1704 🔗

I wouldn’t have thought a common cold would kill anyone, even if they’d not encountered it before, otherwise we’d have some children die of it the first time they get a cold. It’s more likely other viruses killed those other populations.

151638 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Lms23, #567 of 1704 🔗

I believe the cold rather than the flu can make you more susceptible to getting pneumonia and that’s what tends to kill people.

151982 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Lms23, 1, #568 of 1704 🔗

Children’s immune systems are different, Google thymus gland. Which is why if you got polio from mum in the womb or as a small child, as most did before clean water and sewage treatment in the West, you likely recovered without harm. So if babies and children mingle and get infected with all sorts of cold, flu etc viruses, their immune systems shake them off and they don’t usually die. Hence the argument for encouraging all under 25s to mingle and catch CV19, recover and gain transient but protective longer lasting ability to deal with future infections. Before they get old enough to have other significant co morbidities. That’s what will ultimately happen anyway, anything we do merely alters the timeline.

151584 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to mwhite, 3, #569 of 1704 🔗

The flu and cold viruses mutate at a relatively high rate, so the immune system sees them as a new virus.

Having said that, I have had real flu just once in my life. Aching all over, even my toes and the backs of my fingers caused by the high temperature, i.e. around 103F, plus headache. When you have the flu, you don’t get out of bed for days, and feel like cr@p for at least a week afterwards.

I’ve had flu-like virus infections since, more than a cold but less than the flu, coughs that last a few weeks, that sort of thing.

If this CV19 virus mutates like cold and flu viruses, then vaccines will be ineffective.
If it doesn’t, it will disappear like SARS and MERS did.

151630 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to mwhite, 1, #570 of 1704 🔗

I’ve never had the flu either and since I stopped commuting I don’t catch as many colds.

151744 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to mwhite, #571 of 1704 🔗

Yeah, I guess that’s why it’s so common..

151530 Leonard, replying to Leonard, 1, #572 of 1704 🔗

Hi, can someone recommend a site where the most up-to-date/accurate new cases, deaths, etc. figures can be tracked? Cheers.

151573 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Leonard, 1, #573 of 1704 🔗

Oxford COVID-19 Evidence Service

This is where i go for information.

151583 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Leonard, #574 of 1704 🔗

Worldometer is the most comprehensive and easy to use I would say. It’s not always completely accurate and in any case we know stats are problematic but that’s my recommendation.

151590 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to OKUK, #575 of 1704 🔗

BUT every country calculated their Covid stats differently which is why I stopped referring to that website.

151543 tallandbald, replying to tallandbald, 9, #576 of 1704 🔗

Just moseyed over to the Google Play store to see how the NHS test and trace app was getting on.
1000,000+ downloads so far. (so between 1 and 2 mill downloads then??)
Comments range from frustration getting it to work right before they leave the house and fawning admiration for such a great piece of kit.
I left then as I started to feel nauseous.

151624 ▶▶ Caramel, replying to tallandbald, 5, #577 of 1704 🔗

Now? Australia had one months ago and it failed back in May. Our Prime Minister implied that we downloaded it then we’d get out of lockdown sooner. It tracked less than 5 cases. Clearly the UK hasn’t learned from our mistakes..

151665 ▶▶ RickH, replying to tallandbald, 2, #578 of 1704 🔗

WHO a year ago (before being visibly got at) : Recommendation on ‘Track and Trace’ :

“Active contact tracing is not recommended in general because there is no obvious rationale for it in most Member States. This intervention could be considered in some locations and circumstances to collect information on the characteristics of the disease and to identify cases, or to delay widespread transmission in the very early stages of a pandemic in isolated communities.”

‘Nuff said.

151551 Gtec, replying to Gtec, 8, #579 of 1704 🔗

Dear All, I received this e-mail from Classic FM this morning, which rather took my breath away for its Goebbelsesque propaganda quality. I was rather shocked that a commerical organisation should be promoting something that is, in effect, a government tracking facility.
Anyway, have a look and see what you think:


151556 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Gtec, 10, #580 of 1704 🔗

Mental and horribly SINISTER. I hope the uptake on this bastard app is tiny….

151558 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 5, #581 of 1704 🔗

I also hope that the fools who use it are locked up in huge numbers.

151572 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Two-Six, 4, #582 of 1704 🔗

Not likely to happen where I live.
There’s only 8 positive cases in South Norfolk at the moment.
Won’t stop the idiots berating anyone not wearing a mask, though.

151681 ▶▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to Lms23, 3, #583 of 1704 🔗

Talk Radio had the big download the app ad on this morning, nearly threw my cornflakes at the radio.

151683 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to davews, 1, #584 of 1704 🔗

If talk radio is forced to put this stuff out how can it be anything other than propaganda? If they had a choice they wouldn’t would they?

151563 ▶▶ shorthand, replying to Gtec, 2, #585 of 1704 🔗

and fully endorsed by Aled Jones…..ooofya!!

151621 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to shorthand, 1, #586 of 1704 🔗

What a TOOL

151569 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Gtec, 4, #587 of 1704 🔗

Blatant propaganda.

It’s not like there haven’t been warnings about Big Brother spying on us:

How much info is Google getting from your phone? (Tucker Carlson 2018)

And the gullible are doing this willingly….

151582 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Gtec, 4, #588 of 1704 🔗

Big Brother on steroids. Say no to any tracking apps. I’ve stopped taking my phone with me now.

151605 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Gtec, #589 of 1704 🔗

I’m enjoying Radio X at the mo – minimal airtime for Covid chat, still playing Ian Brown etc

151692 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Gtec, 6, #590 of 1704 🔗

Macdonalds have gone all out promoting this app. No entry without downloading it. At cost to their business if customers refuse – they are willing to side with gov and take that hit.

It is shocking as you say.

151702 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Basics, 2, #591 of 1704 🔗

Can’t think of a nicer company to go bust when everyone with old phones boycotts them.

151575 anon, replying to anon, 7, #592 of 1704 🔗


Trafalgar sq live

apologies if posted already

151579 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to anon, 3, #593 of 1704 🔗

Looks good!

151606 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Two-Six, 5, #594 of 1704 🔗

aye and not a muzzle in sight!

151622 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to anon, 6, #595 of 1704 🔗

One placard says we support blue lives matter.

Another says Government cover up.

Another We do not consent -leave our kids alone.

Turn off your TV

Sweden got it right

151626 ▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Basics, 4, #596 of 1704 🔗

great aren’t they!

few more:



151589 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to anon, 5, #597 of 1704 🔗

Fantastic. Looks amazing turn out. I’m with you in spirit 🙏

151607 ▶▶ Basics, replying to anon, 3, #598 of 1704 🔗

Crowds in good spirits

151609 ▶▶ Jenny, replying to anon, 4, #599 of 1704 🔗

Looks like a great turnout and totally peaceful. Will doubtless be reported (if at all) as a “small group of right wing extremists and conspiracy theorists failing to observe social distancing….”

151634 ▶▶▶ Ethelred the Unready, replying to Jenny, 3, #600 of 1704 🔗

Baton charge to follow no doubt

151654 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Jenny, 3, #601 of 1704 🔗

Save our democracy, another plackard

151651 ▶▶ court, replying to anon, 1, #602 of 1704 🔗

Thank you!

151655 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to anon, 2, #603 of 1704 🔗

Posted by Brig Girl. Gives a view from within the crowd. Despite the weather, it looks like more people than last Saturday.

151657 ▶▶ RickH, replying to anon, #604 of 1704 🔗

Bit difficult to gauge numbers from the shot that I’ve seen.

151700 ▶▶ Basics, replying to anon, 2, #605 of 1704 🔗

Another view -speeches audible.
Apologies if already posted.

151712 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Basics, 1, #606 of 1704 🔗


151576 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 13, #607 of 1704 🔗

Good news that Andrew Neil is declining the BBCs job offer and setting up his own TV company with a couple of others.

151581 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Bella Donna, 5, #608 of 1704 🔗

sounds like the BBC trying to keep their enemies close

151600 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, #609 of 1704 🔗

Daily Mail: Plan for EVERYONE over the age of 45 to shield at home remains ‘under review’ by SAGE.

151610 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Tom Blackburn, 7, #610 of 1704 🔗

Does that include anyone under 45 who lives with them? So all the kids and teenagers living with parents over 45 are expected to never come out of the house for as long as these Frankenstein scientists say so?

151614 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Poppy, 8, #611 of 1704 🔗

That’s why they decided it was unworkable. I am at a loss to understand how it could ever have been considered in the first place, though!

151649 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Charlie Blue, 10, #612 of 1704 🔗

Making the whole lot advisory is the only way out. Health advice that should sit alongside weekly units of alcohol etc. If old people living with young people don’t like it, either one of them has to move out. Bottom line is everyone is an adult with sufficient mental capacity to make decisions

151663 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Tom Blackburn, 6, #613 of 1704 🔗

“is everyone is an adult with sufficient mental capacity to make decisions”
Evidently this does not seem to be the case.

People are brainwashed idiots.

151652 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #614 of 1704 🔗

Even to have it ‘under review’ (if true) is a mark of what a group of Cupid Stunts is this dangerous waste of space.

151697 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Tom Blackburn, #615 of 1704 🔗

Thats it, into the bunker Bozo and Bill and Ben.

151601 Sir Patrick Vaccine, #616 of 1704 🔗

These people will wake up to this tyranny when it’s far too late

Looking Through Your Letter Box?


151603 Jenny, 7, #617 of 1704 🔗

Good to see Molly Kingsley’s piece. Molly and team have done a brilliant job with UsForThem – total focus on getting things back to normal for children.

151613 Nsklent, replying to Nsklent, 7, #618 of 1704 🔗

Just listening to yesterday’s UK column. Stats front CDC, updated infection fatality:
In order of age group, infection fatality rate and survival rate.
0-19 0.00003% 99.97%
20-49 0.0002% 99.98%
50-69 0.005% 99.5%
70+ 0.054% 94.6%
So, where is the minutest justification for the current farce or vaccine. If any information was worth putting on a flyer, this is. Another letter educating my MP today, methinks.

151642 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Nsklent, 1, #619 of 1704 🔗

You’ve underestimated the survival rates. For example an fir of.005% gives you a chance of not surviving is one in twenty thousand. So the survival rate is, I think 99.995%. Happy to be corrected but I remember doing a risk assessment and this seems about right.

151912 ▶▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Yawnyaman, #620 of 1704 🔗

Thanks. I just copied what was on the screen of UK column.

151646 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Nsklent, #621 of 1704 🔗

Is that first figure correct? I’m sure I heard this morning on the Tucker Carlson show that the survival rate is 99.997%… 😸

151658 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Nsklent, 3, #622 of 1704 🔗

Yeah, I took a picture of my TV when this was showed yesterday and sent a copy to my neighbour.

His response, ‘utter bastards!!!’

I’ve got a good picture if anybody wants a copy

151669 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, #623 of 1704 🔗

I do thank you. UK Column caps go down well with a few contacts I have.

151754 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 2, #624 of 1704 🔗

Here you go

152021 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, #625 of 1704 🔗

Thank you Mr Ste. Appreciated and shared thusly.

151674 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Nsklent, 2, #626 of 1704 🔗

They didn’t convert to percentages.

The correct figures are:

0-19 0.0003% 99.9997%
20-49 0.02% 99.98%
50-69 0.05% 99.5%
70+ 0.54% 94.6%

Still doesn’t change the justification argument.

151769 ▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Sarigan, #627 of 1704 🔗

Oh yeah, agreed

151635 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Sam Vimes, 7, #629 of 1704 🔗

Poor Vallance and Whitty, complaining about being scapegoated.

You’d have to have a hard heart not to feel sorry for them.

Seems I have a hard heart.
I call it karma.

151640 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Lms23, 6, #630 of 1704 🔗

I call it sanity.

151627 Mayo, replying to Mayo, -23, #631 of 1704 🔗

I note the LS blog is still obsessing about the largely irrelevant issue case numbers & the False Positive rate. This is now a red herring. In fact, from a sceptical point of view, big case numbers might support their argument – if case numbers are not matched by a proportional increase in hospital admissions & deaths.

These are the key statistics now. There has been an increase in cases.It really doesn’t matter whether the increase is thousands or tens of thousands. What matters now is the numbers being admitted to hospital.

The 7 day average up to Sept 23rd has increased by around 50% compared to the previous 7 day period. This is well below the rate of admission see in March but, if it continued, it would still become a problem within a few weeks, e.g. in 6 weeks admissions would exceed the maximum weekly average recorded in April.

The rate does not appear to be increasing and may be slowing down but it’s too early to say. The bottom line is we need this current ‘peak’ to be gentle and short-lived.

And, as a reminder, forget the PCR FP issue, if the rate of hospitalisation is happening with relatively few TRUE cases then Covd-19 is a serious problem in the UK.

151639 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Mayo, 8, #632 of 1704 🔗

increased by around 50% “

The deadly proportion fallacy.

“it’s too early to say”

Of course … and only a fool shouts ‘Fire’ at the sight of a struck match.

151653 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to RickH, -18, #633 of 1704 🔗

The rate has been increasing for some time. The “too early to say” referred to the possible slowdown. The increase in the previous week (up to Sept 16th) was 77%.

Fires can become out of control very quickly. I don’t think we could have left it more than another 2 weeks to make a decision.

151662 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mayo, 2, #634 of 1704 🔗

Make what decision?

151667 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Julian, -8, #635 of 1704 🔗

On an intervention.

151774 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mayo, 1, #636 of 1704 🔗

What would such an intervention achieve and at what cost?

151856 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Mayo, 3, #637 of 1704 🔗

Which intervention? Seems only freezing the situation in a new total lockdown is the only available option. And that might have not such a big effect as most cases are within households and in 2 weeks time there would be many in households potentially infected having now the best opportunity to infect other household members being locked down with them for weeks. That is apart from the horrendous cost of the lockdown. Other interventions than lockdown? Impossible as it is human hybris to think that you can stop this virus. In the end only herd immunity will stop it as has happened always. Nobody promised the politicians that total cases would be different.

151716 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mayo, 4, #638 of 1704 🔗

Actually, the real rise (guaged by hospitalisations) is gradual, ascending from the dip in August back to where it was in mid-July.

Hardly a case for panic at this low level in a country of 67m.

Massive mistakes in policy were made from April onwards for this mainly moderate infective virus which then declined. Why repeat – and worsen- the really terrible consequences of bad policy on the basis that the sky might fall in this time?

Enough of shockingly bad advice – pension off Whitty and Vallance and they can enjoy their legacy from Big Pharma with a clear conscience.

Return power to people to assess their own risk without the interference of notable duggies whose only distinction is in consistent wrongness.

151740 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to RickH, -5, #639 of 1704 🔗

Actually, the real rise (guaged by hospitalisations) is gradual, ascending from the dip in August back to where it was in mid-July.

It’s well above mid-July levels – and climbing.

Hardly a case for panic at this low level in a country of 67m.

We don’t have 67m hospital beds – and I didn’t say we should panic. I suggested we could monitor the situation for a further 2 weeks.

151882 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mayo, 1, #640 of 1704 🔗

You now seem to be struggling with this degree of incoherence.

I’m glad that sanity is beginning to dawn.

151849 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Mayo, 2, #641 of 1704 🔗

Who is this “we”, kemosabe? It’s not like us plebs have any choice in what’s being inflicted on us. Or is that you, Boris?

151893 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mayo, #642 of 1704 🔗

Again – the proportion fallacy – the sort of crap numbers beloved of the Beeb and official sources that have been dismembered long ago.

… and next year, that long-feared meteor might strike.

… but I’m not basing any plans on the idea.

151677 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to RickH, 3, #643 of 1704 🔗

Or at the sight of a charred bonfire that’s gone out.

151743 ▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to guy153, #644 of 1704 🔗

It’s not gone out yet and it make sense to keep an eye on it until we’re sure it has gone out.

If you read my original comment I’m suggesting we pay less attention to case numbers and more to hospital numbers. Nothing else at this stage.

151852 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Mayo, 2, #645 of 1704 🔗

It’s gone out as much as it’s ever going to for all practical purposes. It’s time to just forget about it and move on.

151979 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to guy153, 1, #646 of 1704 🔗

I hope you’re right but to simply ignore it would be neglectful.

152006 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JoeBlogg, replying to Mayo, #647 of 1704 🔗


152545 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Mayo, 2, #648 of 1704 🔗

What the NHS and the people of Britain really need right now is a lot of very healthy neglect from the government.

151897 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mayo, #649 of 1704 🔗

? even if it means that constant wakefulness induces hallucination and other delusions?

I don’t advise it. Cures that are far worse than the disease are not recommended in sane medicine.

151660 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Mayo, 2, #650 of 1704 🔗

If the hospitalisation is due only to Covid you may have a point and also in context with the typical hospitalisation rate variation since every season. But are they because of Covid? Or are you just counting noise and saying it’s important.

School boy error that.

151664 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to mhcp, -8, #651 of 1704 🔗

Hospitalisation due to Covid-19

151690 ▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Mayo, 5, #652 of 1704 🔗

I am interested how you know/ are able to calculate the numbers of those being admitted due to Covid (separating these out from patients who had a positive test in the weeks leading up to admission for something else, or those admitted for something else who subsequently test positive). This does seem like crucial information but I wasn’t aware of these facts being in the public domain. Could you point me in the right direction, please?

151731 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Charlie Blue, -1, #653 of 1704 🔗

I am interested how you know/ are able to calculate the numbers of those being admitted due to Covid (separating these out from patients who had a positive test in the weeks leading up to admission for something else, or those admitted for something else who subsequently test positive).

David Paton seems to have the breakdown between the ‘in hospital’ admissions v admissions from the community.


I haven’t bothered with this yet because the rates are quite similar. Also the percentage admitted from community is around 80% so that dominated the total. I’ll keep an eye on David’s numbers if the situation changes.

151745 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Mayo, #654 of 1704 🔗

“I’ll keep an eye on David’s numbers if the situation changes.”

Who gives a flying fuck……

151753 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Winston Smith, #655 of 1704 🔗

Quite a few people it seems.

If you don’t – fine but why comment?

151779 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Mayo, 1, #656 of 1704 🔗

Well we’ve turned on the nuclear power station, dug up the coal, oil and gas and set fire to it, we’ve dug heavy metals out the ground and made slaves put it all together so we can sit in our nuclear powered homes and talk on the internet, so at a guess it would be rude not to

151781 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Mayo, 1, #657 of 1704 🔗

Because you irritate me, your faux insight into health/medical pisses me off, you and a thousand others without any real front-line experience, opining with gay abandon without any concern for the real people who are really suffering.


151766 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Mayo, #658 of 1704 🔗

Thanks. The question that I cannot answer to my own satisfaction is whether the symptoms caused by a covid-19 infection are the primary reason that those admitted (in either circumstance) require hospital treatment. It is undoubtedly problematic to have any virus jumping around a hospital among already poorly folk so my curiosity might be irrelevant, though I think the details matter as long as the focus is on understanding this one pathogen.

151862 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Charlie Blue, #659 of 1704 🔗

Hospital acquired infection is not irrelevant. You are right to question it. If the increase in hospitalisations is solely or primarily due to infection WITHIN hospital then it completely changes the nature of the problem. Restrictions in the wider community would be pointless.

151913 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Mayo, 1, #660 of 1704 🔗

Agreed. The nature of the problem may also be different if a positive test pre-admission adds to the figures but the patient is asymptomatic or very mildly affected and they are in hospital to access treatment for absolutely anything else. Restrictions in the wider community would again arguably be pointless if this was a common scenario.

151693 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Mayo, 1, #661 of 1704 🔗

I’ve just had a look at the NHS site and it’s interesting that there doesn’t seem to be a general hospitalisation report that can be compared to those labelled Covid-19.

Same issue though – how are we attributing Covid-19 as opposed to similar respiratory ailments.

151718 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to mhcp, 1, #662 of 1704 🔗

Good point, given the falsity of much ‘Covid’ data.

151749 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to RickH, #663 of 1704 🔗

Could you provide proof of this?

151905 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mayo, #664 of 1704 🔗

I shouldn’t have to if you’ve been awake during the last six months.

Here’s the clue : start with the registration of deaths … then try the CEBM analyses …

Then come back if and when you’ve understood.

151981 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to RickH, #665 of 1704 🔗

I’ve been reading CEBM since March. Carl Heneghan disputes the interpretation of the data. He doesn’t dispute the data.

151732 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Mayo, 3, #667 of 1704 🔗

None of that data reporting specifies that admissions were for Covid, only that patients had a positive test before or after admission. I respect your commitment to avoiding confirmation bias but I do think that this issue is important.

151746 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Charlie Blue, #668 of 1704 🔗

There is a breakdown on ‘in hospital’ v ‘from community’ admissions (see below)

Actually it’s YOU I responded to.

151847 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Mayo, #669 of 1704 🔗

It only seems to be those attributed to Covid-19. Not the total amount in hospital for all causes – so we can see the context. It’s rather add really why this isn’t being reported.

The proportion for Covid under ventillation is sitting around 2-3% and has been for over a month. It may increase but we were seeing 80% of all people on ventillation in March as being Covid.

I’d like to see the shape of the typical ventillation curve going back so many years, especially from 2018. I’ll have a delve into the sites to see if I can pluck this out. It’s normally in the Flu report

151800 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Mayo, #670 of 1704 🔗

And would you trust the government not to falsify that figure.They have done it with everything else

151844 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #671 of 1704 🔗

Have they? Could you give an example?

151865 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Mayo, 1, #672 of 1704 🔗

Death certificates.Any one who died with suspected Covid was classed as a Covid death.Despite no test and no autopsy.

152057 ▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Mayo, #673 of 1704 🔗

We have no data on ‘hospitalisation due to Covid-19’.

151672 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Mayo, 4, #674 of 1704 🔗

The main thing about the FPR that makes it very much not red or a herring is it makes the T&T program a complete and utter waste of time and money.

151701 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to guy153, -1, #675 of 1704 🔗

Yes -ok – but it’s not very relevant to the infection rate.

In fact, Ivor Cummins & Alistair Haimes (both on Twitter) were keen to make the point that cases meant nothing.

151673 ▶▶ Jane in France, replying to Mayo, 2, #676 of 1704 🔗

Has Boney Knee come back? I remember at the beginning he used to make these sorts of comments. He really believes the reaction is excessive, but…

151685 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Mayo, #677 of 1704 🔗

Out of interest… were you any good at maths or science when you were in education?

151694 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Tee Ell, -4, #678 of 1704 🔗

I have a B.Sc (Hons) Degree in Mathematics.

151699 ▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Mayo, 4, #679 of 1704 🔗

Cool so you’ll understand the impact of sensitivity/specificity better than the vast majority, sceptics and believers both. What’s your opinion on the operational specificity of the PCR test? i.e. if you were to guess the percentage, what would it be?

And follow up question – if it were up to you, would you advocate two tests for every positive in order to try and make this a non-issue?

151821 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Tee Ell, 1, #680 of 1704 🔗

False Positives are an issue with diagnostic testing. Strangely few LS readers were interested in the FPR when Jon Ionnadis carried out his seroprevalence study in California a few months back. I did make the point then that FPs could account for up to a third of his positive cases.

In summary, I think the criticism is justified but I don’t think it affects the trend of infection growth. If positive tests are increasing then the likely explanation is that TRUE and FALSE positives are increasing. There is no reason to think one would increase while the other didn’t.

Regarding your follow up question, it depends what the test is for. If it’s to test an individual’s fitness for work – then YES – a second test is necessary particularly if this individual has no symptoms.

A few months, Medcram on YT did an interesting presentation which described a cheap test (~$1) which only had a sensitivity of around 50%. But the key point was that it picked up the 50% with the highest viral load, i.e. those who were most likely to be infectious.

For a TRUE covid-19 patient, a negative test could mean they were in the latter stages of the infection so it didn’t matter or in the early stages which means a test the next day would be positive. Apparently this test gave immediate results & could be used at home (using a small blood sample I think).

A follow up PCR test could also be given to an positive case.

151833 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Mayo, #681 of 1704 🔗

Define a TRUE covid-19 patient Mayo?

151843 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Winston Smith, -1, #682 of 1704 🔗

A TRUE covid-19 patient is a patient who has Covid-19.

Try reading all relevant comments. We are looking at the issue of PCR (& other) Testing and how we can best identify a TRUE case.

I’m sorry if this is a bit tricky for you.

151870 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Mayo, 1, #683 of 1704 🔗

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

You fucking irritating cunt! 🤣

You should get a job triaging and/or diagnosing medical conditions.

Patient: Dr Mayo, do I have meningococcal septicaemia?

Dr Mayo: Yes, you have, truly.

Patient: How do you know?

Dr Mayo: I just know……

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

151850 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Mayo, #684 of 1704 🔗

I agree with you there i.e. that an imperfect accuracy doesn’t stop you identifying trends.

I’d still be interested to know your view on the actual likely number for operational specificity (purely out of curiosity). Also, I’d probably agree even more strongly if you were arguing more passionately for double tests for positives where it matters most, due to the potential negative impacts of getting this sort of thing wrong on a grand scale.

152061 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Mayo, #685 of 1704 🔗

Blood tests for seroprevalence don’t have the FPR problem associated with PCR.

151808 ▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Mayo, -1, #686 of 1704 🔗

“I have a B.Sc (Hons) Degree in Mathematics.”

So what.

151830 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Winston Smith, 2, #687 of 1704 🔗

I was asked a question by another reader. I gave a reply from which he could decide the answer for himself.

151838 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Mayo, #688 of 1704 🔗

Do you have ANY relevant, practical heath, medical or social experience?

151888 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Winston Smith, 2, #689 of 1704 🔗

I like a world where everyone is welcome to present their opinions.

151883 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #690 of 1704 🔗

I explicitly asked the question! It was purely because I wanted to discuss some (admittedly fairly simple) math-sy stuff. Perfectly reasonable response in my view, no need to be harsh.

151698 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Mayo, 5, #691 of 1704 🔗

Dear Mayo

Thank you for your post. Always good he hear some alternate views.

Out of interest, are you a member of the 77th internet brigade thing tasked with exposing us dangerous Lockdown conspiracy theory tin foil hat wearers?

Have a great day.


151715 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Mayo, 2, #692 of 1704 🔗

even if it is a problem so fucking what? I don’t give a shit who gets it or dies from it. None of my fucking business but hey lets stop me from doing what i want because that’ll help save some cunt who i don’t give a flying fuck about. No one cares about anyone else dying or otherwise except the people who claim they do and their the ones who start wars to protect you, censor you to protect freedom of speech. Save us for the people who want to help.

151736 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Mayo, 1, #693 of 1704 🔗

I regard the Mayo/Pinch person as a source of information about the way SAGE (maybe Imperial College) are thinking. Are you Samir Bhatt?

151828 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Mayo, 2, #694 of 1704 🔗

Repeating a post doesn’t make it any more authoritative, rather the reverse.

Why not read this reference and take it on point by point, referencing other studies?

Conclusion: A TRUE POSITIVE in PCR does not always mean that the person presents any danger to society. The virus cannot be transmitted when cell culture shows that the virus is not infective. Unfortunately relating PCR POSITIVE to infectivity is not easy if we consider the whole population. This would need 1) a model (correlation) that maps PCR POSITIVES and/or symptoms to infectivity as tested by viral culture or 2) viral culture for every individual case. ‘

‘A possible explanation could be that the PCR positives simply measure the number of PCR tests taken on a given day, i.e. they might be somewhat proportional to the number of PCR taken on a given day, and positives might or might not be “infectious” positives. Ultimately, this means PCR positives cannot be used to tell if the pandemic is advancing if for that we understand that deaths are to increase or decrease.


152055 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Mayo, #695 of 1704 🔗

” if the rate of hospitalisation is happening with relatively few TRUE cases then Covd-19 is a serious problem in the UK.”
No, it means the admissions are for something else.

151628 Ethelred the Unready, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 4, #696 of 1704 🔗

No apparent mention of Trafalgar Square whatsoever in MSM, they are either ignoring or could there be a D Notice in effect?

151666 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 4, #697 of 1704 🔗
151680 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 3, #698 of 1704 🔗

They are waiting to capture film of the upcoming violent skirmishes, then it will be everywhere.

151703 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Ethelred the Unready, -9, #699 of 1704 🔗

David Icke will be there and he’s a total fucking moron, his presence allowing the lying scum in the media to call people who want to stop the lockdown tyranny and impending facist state conspiracy theorists. I despise him and think the people who like him and say how he’s been saying for years all these thing that are now coming true are so fucking braindead are like someone who’s smashed their own skull in with a fucking hammer until their brain has turned to mush and is now on the floor like a pile of puke from someone walking home at ten o’clock drunk from the pub. Fuck David Icke and that Corbyn climate lunatic. Jesus we’re fucking doomed. Even most of you cunts here aren’t any smarter. A bunch of reality denying lets get back to normal so we can continue to fuck everything while working meaningless jobs to pay for shit we don’t need wankers, each and every fucking single one of you. Cunts like Toby Young and James ‘the ugliest fucker ever to have lived’ Dellingpole are absolute shills, paid up members of some rich upper middle can conformists so deluded they think they’re an alternative, don’t make me fucking laugh. We walked into the nightmare decades ago and none of you fuckers have the slightest clue. As an individual i despise anyone who votes for government, works in government and follows government rules. I also despise people who debate their laws and their morals. I want to see the demise of everyone who buys shit from China and then claims they care about humanity and freedom. Almost all humans are lying stupid bags of wind and piss. The best i can say for some of them is they’ll suck your cock
Fuck the lot of them. My planet my life my fucking rules

151738 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Biker, -1, #700 of 1704 🔗

In part, I agree with you Biker.

151741 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Winston Smith, -5, #701 of 1704 🔗

you agree with it all Winston. I know you do. Maybe not the cock sucking part you may prefer cunnilingus, i’m progressive about these things.

151760 ▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Biker, -3, #702 of 1704 🔗

I prefer cunnilingus to be fair, one should try everything at least once (apart from incest and morris dancing…..).

151770 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Winston Smith, -5, #703 of 1704 🔗

I’d fuck my sister, if i had one. You’ve got to try everything once. That’s how i came to take 100 acid tabs at once. Tripped for three months, never thought it was gonna stop but then it did and you know what i learned from it, absolutely fuck all. The only thing worth learning is how to get off this planet and move someplace else. Preferable a place where they’ll leave you alone and don’t believe in fucking religion

151824 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Biker, -1, #704 of 1704 🔗


151861 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Biker, -1, #705 of 1704 🔗

More a Primal Scream. Can’t bare the nice coffee morning/bring and buy sale niceties any fucking longer. People going on and on and fucking on. What we gonna do, these figures that fact, he said this, the people in Sweden blah fucking blah.
Why don’t these fuckers protesting march to Downing Street and stop the place? I want to see the commitment. I want to put the 6 o clock news and see the Army flatten David Icke with a big fucking tank but it still doesn’t stop the protest. I want them to sit in Parliament and refuse to move until they stop all the tyranny not just the latest mask flu bullshit. Unfortunately the best we can hope for is some dullards saying comrade, we must do something and then a few photos for some social media

151922 ▶▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Biker, #706 of 1704 🔗

Mr dictionary seems to have deserted us.

151972 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Nsklent, #707 of 1704 🔗

Who’s with you?

152326 ▶▶▶ stevie119, replying to Biker, #708 of 1704 🔗

You are going a bit mental, aren`t you?!

152649 ▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to stevie119, #709 of 1704 🔗

Aren’t you? I am.

151637 annie, replying to annie, 44, #710 of 1704 🔗

So pleased this morning. My excellent local butcher, appalled and miserable two weeks ago at the prospect of compulsory gagging, gag under chin last week, NO GAG today and beaming! I think I helped by telling him about exemptions and risk assessments, but it doesn’t matter how he got there so long as he got there.
Greengrocer in same indoor market beaming at me with gag hung over one ear.

Oh, and I stuck full-colour copies of the Bob cartoon all over the place.They show up nicely. May not be there for long, but they are there now.

Ripped down and destroyed eight coastal path notices yesterday and one today. Keep Wales filth-free. Yay.

151647 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to annie, 5, #711 of 1704 🔗

Well done Annie! Could you ask your sceptical friends to each get a few non-sceptical acquaintances to complete our survey ? Thanks

151675 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to annie, 8, #712 of 1704 🔗

I noticed the other day somebody has been ripping up some new covid signs round my way. Nice to see.

151686 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to annie, 6, #713 of 1704 🔗

Great work. I’ve been removing some signs, inspired by your good self Annie. Thank you. Mildly liberating isn’t it.

151757 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 4, #714 of 1704 🔗

Yep, especially when you go to the same place again and they haven’t been replaced.

151645 RickH, replying to RickH, 4, #715 of 1704 🔗

Just listening to Radio 3 and caught the News bulletin.

BBC at its most sublime … quoting the 1m (Shock! Horror!) who have ‘died’ (?) ‘from’ (?) ‘Covid’ (?).

Now guess what was missing from the narration – as it has been right from the start in March.

151873 ▶▶ RickH, replying to RickH, 1, #716 of 1704 🔗

Trouble is – you can’t get away from some Cupid Stunt wittering on about ‘lockdown’ and ‘What I did’ (like Maisie).

I’m truly hacked off with it – apart from the fact that it is an integral part of the propaganda in normalising the totally barking.

I usually switch on the radio when I’m in the bathroom – and, given the randomness of this, it is almost impossible to escape bloody Covid and f.ing lockdown.

151819 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Templeton, 2, #718 of 1704 🔗

Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. But mostly just given incorrect info about the app. Glad my iPhone’s too old to install it.

151687 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #719 of 1704 🔗

Hi all

Has anyone here or a close, first-hand acquaintance had a positive PCR test?

How were you informed?

Were you offered a second test to double check?

Were there any negative repercussions for you because of it?

Were there any positive benefits for you because of it?

Why did you have the test done?


151707 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Lockdown Truth, #720 of 1704 🔗

Only clients getting negative response I am afraid. Very basic email and names and dates of birth can be freely amended. One client is contemplating using one for travel requirements if their result does not come through in time.

151695 John Stone, 7, #721 of 1704 🔗

My recent letter in BMJ Rapid Responses about Moonshot:

Re: Operation Moonshot: Leaked documents prompt questions over cost, evidence, and reliance on private sector Re: Operation Moonshot: Leaked documents prompt questions over cost, evidence, and reliance on private sector Gareth Iacobucci. 370:doi 10.1136/bmj.m3580
Dear Editor
Despite the megalomaniac impracticality of Moonshot, the extreme cost, its extraordinary demands on public cooperation and patience, the uncertainty whether the technology could be developed at whatever cost, the vast scepticism which has been heaped on it, it was depressing to witness that Prime Minister was apparently determined to pursue the project in his television address on Tuesday. This is the worst kind of politics – a politician pursuing an objective without regard to cost or feasibility based on some personal hunch. Moreover, if the purpose is to open society and the economy it can only have the reverse effect as we become ever more obsessive about the presence of the virus (and how many false positives can 10 million tests a day generate?). The project reminds me of two Hans Andersen tales: ‘The Princess and the Pea’ and ‘The Emperor Who Had No Clothes’. Redemption through vaccines is also looking increasingly like “fool’s gold”.
How about the government just tries to make sure citizens are up to scratch with zinc, Vitamin D and C, which seems modestly achievable [1]?
[1] Ellen CG Grant, ‘Covid-19 and Vitamin D levels’, 18 July 2020, https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m2840/rr-1
Competing interests: AgeofAutism.com, an on-line daily journal, concerns itself with the potential environmental sources for the proliferation of autism, neurological impairment, immune dysfunction and chronic disease. I receive no payment as UK Editor
24 September 2020
John Stone
UK Editor
London N22

151696 NickR, replying to NickR, 7, #722 of 1704 🔗

Here’s the chart plotting the 1st wave and the supposed 2nd wave

  • 1st wave, 39 days after 1st March there were 5,594 reported infections and 1,030 deaths on that day.
  • 2nd wave, 39 days after 17th August there were 5434 positive tests on the day and 35 deaths on that day.
151713 ▶▶ DRW, replying to NickR, #723 of 1704 🔗

Playing devil’s advocate, couldn’t you say there’s less mortality in this second wave because of better treatments and less care home exposure?

151755 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to DRW, 6, #724 of 1704 🔗

To some extent yes but it’s dwarfed by the fact that the reported cases during the first wave were an underestimate of the true number of infections by a factor of between 20 and 100 and now they are an underestimate by a factor of about 2.

Although most of the positives in “the second wave” are false the actual number of new infections is about 9600 per the ONS survey.

You can easily tell they’re mostly false by the following simple consideration: to find half of the actual new infections you’d have to test half the population. They aren’t doing 30m tests per day but (they claim) about 150k.

Even if everyone symptomatic was going for a test (they’re not) they would still only find about 1/3 of the actual total number of infections.

152017 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to DRW, #725 of 1704 🔗

That’s fine. If we can treat it why are shutting the NHS & screwing the economy?

151704 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 24, #726 of 1704 🔗


This video of a top German neurologist also working in Harley Street is going viral over there at the moment.
She considers masks to be extremely dangerous for the brain, especially for children.
I guess it should be possible to get her to make an English version as well.

It is also quite telling in that regard that uber-zealous Lufthansa has just prohibited a) masks with an air outlet valve on the one hand and b) FFP2 and N95 masks on the other!

The former because they are all too obviously useless, the latter, the only potentially effective ones as per the NIPH study and many others, because they are too suffocating, in particular when worn for hours.
It is worth noting that otherwise, LH could be sued if a passenger who wore one suffocated, and also that German workspace rules prohibit FFP2 and N95 masks to be worn for longer than 75 minutes, with a mandatory break of 30 minutes
So LH now requires everyone to wear cloth masks or scarves only, which the NIPH and all other RCT studies have clearly ruled out from being effective against the virus in the first place (and which are all uncertified, cause many other health risks etc.).

And the neurologist deems them to be very harmful regardless, on the basis of the proven oxygen
deprivation all face coverings will create.

High time to stop this now clearly criminal madness!!!

151717 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Jay Berger, 12, #727 of 1704 🔗

It shouldn’t of been started.

151733 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Jay Berger, 7, #728 of 1704 🔗

Ahahahaaa that’s amazing. “You must wear a mask, but only if it’s guaranteed to be ineffective”.

151788 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Tee Ell, 1, #729 of 1704 🔗

I get your point, but hasn’t that kind of been the idea since the beginning?

151831 ▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to ConstantBees, 1, #730 of 1704 🔗

Yes I agree. Still tickles me to see it formalised so obviously though (if I wasn’t laughing I’d be crying).

151896 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Jay Berger, 4, #731 of 1704 🔗

There was a recent study which suggested that cloth masks released fibres when breathing. Of course, there is no history of fibres getting trapped in lungs and causing medical issues No sirree!

151705 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 7, #732 of 1704 🔗
151725 ▶▶ RickH, replying to JohnB, 2, #733 of 1704 🔗

That looks a bit more promising than the last shot I saw.

151949 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to JohnB, #734 of 1704 🔗

This looks a bit worrying now…

151709 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 14, #735 of 1704 🔗

None of it seems to be about a virus, that’s just the control part, the muzzles are the show of compliance. When the Gates Agenda is read, it is all the plan, for OUR future, not the future of the elite, who get to enjoy the planet they think of as their’s, while they destroy our future.

151719 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Dan Clarke, 7, #736 of 1704 🔗

Don’t do it then. Don’t wear a mask, don’t buy their shit, dump your fucking phone get off the internet and go grow some cabbages, i’d imagine when you’ve done that the cabbage will make a great conversationalist for you to debate with

151723 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Biker, 6, #737 of 1704 🔗

Never worn a mask, just got back from a uk holiday where it was restricted because of that, but hey ho, something I will never do. Havent go a mobile phone either, not even an old one, must be the only person in the UK not to. But not everyone thinks like that which is the problem, people still not aware of the agenda

151734 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Dan Clarke, #738 of 1704 🔗

What agenda? Surely you’ve noticed over the last oh i don’t know 70 years the massive industrialisation of the earth to the point now where we’ve pumped so many nasty chemicals into the atmosphere we’re reprocessing ourselves and in all that time you like me have sat back and done fuck all. We’ve all enjoyed the labour of some Chinky slaves and some blecks in Africa never once stopping for a second to consider maybe it’s my fault. You’re the problem, not some “agenda” from shadowy group like Spectre hell bent on corning the world market in pork scratchings.

151756 ▶▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Biker, 1, #739 of 1704 🔗

What Agenda??? FGS

151761 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Dan Clarke, #740 of 1704 🔗

Let me into your secret please i beg you. I’m sitting down at the moment smoking and drinking tea so i won’t fall over at the sheer stupidity of this “agenda” you think i’m not aware of.

151826 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Biker, 2, #741 of 1704 🔗

Are you sure its just tea and just nicotine?

151839 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #742 of 1704 🔗

Off course. I retired from drug abuse twenty years ago. Straight as nail these days. Drugs and Booze are a young man’s game.

151710 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 13, #743 of 1704 🔗

In Boris’ strange speech about the wind yesterday, at 39 secs he says Bill Gates predicted the coronavirus?


Giving the game away?

151724 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Awkward Git, 10, #744 of 1704 🔗

He appears to have imbibed/smoked/snorted something that has reduced his coherence and such substances often reduce inhibitions…

151783 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Strange Days, 5, #745 of 1704 🔗

I think he’s permanently drunk or hungover nowadays.

151795 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cheezilla, #746 of 1704 🔗

Really is there any evidence of Boris being an alcoholic? Pictures of him drinking or drunk? Remember Jean-Claud Drunker…what a state he was in.

151784 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #747 of 1704 🔗

I said that last night and I commented on how he let fly with that Bill Gates predicted it thing.
It is a ” Minimising Disclosure”. Liars will often do this and disclose the lie or fact that they want to hide by actually stating the lie. Its like they are saying “look, its not a big issue, I told you about it”.
In their mind because they have mentioned THE THING it is reduced in proportion or threat.

151860 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #748 of 1704 🔗

He’s confusing prophet with profit.

151944 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #749 of 1704 🔗

I wondered whether he was saying ‘look, I’m being forced to go along with this great reset thing, isn’t it obvious I don’t give a sh** about the “wind”, and just so you know, I’m not in control, I suspect Bill Gates has something to do with it, but I’m in just the same position as you are. Being controlled. Give me a break, I’m having a breakdown’

152012 ▶▶ shorthand, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #750 of 1704 🔗

Just watched that, and pissed myself laughing. Hes so animated, ‘Wiiiind it’s everywhere, Scotland has some, we do too’
So we’re going to be the new Saudi selling wind. Next stop Sharia Law and lopping hands and heads off…

He’s not getting a new corporate gig after this tenure, he’s doing nights at the Stand Comedy club, he’ll be a complete sell out!

151714 Fingerache Philip., 16, #751 of 1704 🔗

To our comrades in Trafalgar square:”Be not afraid, truth is with you “

151726 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 11, #752 of 1704 🔗

Went into town for a very quick shopping trip, around 50% were wearing masks in the open air. In supermarket I was the only maskless one, like an inverted Lone Ranger. I saw a 2 year old wearing a mask.

151727 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to p02099003, 25, #753 of 1704 🔗

I class that as child abuse.

151737 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #754 of 1704 🔗

I consider teaching religion to children child abuse. I consider religious people to be utter morons and a direct threat to humanity. Wearing a mask is not unlike filling your brain with made up shit and pretending to live according to some religion. Wearing a mask is a statement that you’re an ape. it used to be hard to spot friends from apes but since the masks i now know anyone without one is a friend anyone with one is an ape.

151752 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Biker, 7, #755 of 1704 🔗

Please don’t insult religious people.

151758 ▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to annie, -5, #756 of 1704 🔗

Please stop abusing children by telling them your insane story about the universe and all the utter shit that comes along with that. Religious people are delusional idiot fucks and deserve nothing but contempt. How dare a human being be so fucking stupid that they believe in religion. How dare anyone of these believers get a job in government and have control over rational individuals. Oh and if you’re one of the delusional christians fucks, forgive me.

151772 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Biker, 12, #757 of 1704 🔗

I am one, I have no children, if I had I would honestly tell them, as soon as they were old enough to begin to understand, what I believe and let them make their own minds up, just as my parents did for me.
I din’t believe in forcing people into any belief. I believe in informing people.

151814 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to annie, 1, #758 of 1704 🔗

You don’t believe in forcing people into your beliefs. All religious people say that. Are you gonna say now listen kids i’m gonna tell you about some delusions christian bullshit i believe but you don’t need to believe it yourself after all you’d have to be totally stupid to. I doubt it and little Rebecca and Geoffrey will be told there is some validity to believing nonsense because mummy does and the whole thing keeps going. I’m afraid that the religious have had plenty time to realise they’re delusional and won’t accept it, which is fair enough, believe what you like but equally those of us tired of lunatics have every fucking right to say what we think of it especially nowadays when Christians can’t burn me alive for not believing in their bullshit.

152346 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Biker, #759 of 1704 🔗

It usually skips a generation in my experience. People like to rebel against their parents.

151777 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Biker, 3, #760 of 1704 🔗

I’m not a “delusional christian fuck” but are you struggling with logic today?

” it used to be hard to spot friends from apes but since the masks i now know anyone without one is a friend anyone with one is an ape.”

So if someone isn’t wearing a mask is a Christian, where does that leave them in your world?

btw, I’m an atheist and I don’t wear a mask, but I’m not sure you’d actually call me a friend.

151827 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to ConstantBees, 1, #761 of 1704 🔗

Cool you’ve spotted a potential hole in my theory. Would i consider an christian without a mask a friend? After thinking about it, i would. I never said i couldn’t be friends with an ape, it’s highly unlikely but it might happen. Atheists i hate more than religious people because i don’t believe them, i believe they all believe in god and are just pretending not to. I’m sure you’d like me in real life, everyone does.

151874 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Old Bill, replying to Biker, 3, #762 of 1704 🔗

I am fascinated by the logic here, I am an atheist and you hate me because I believe in gods? I assure you I do not, not one single one of them, they are all complete and utter fantasy to my mind.

Perhaps you are just saying you hate everyone – I can live with that no bother, I am almost the same, but saying you hate me because I’m an god believing atheist is just crazy.

I agree this is completely off topic though so maybe I shouldn’t have replied.

151907 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Old Bill, #763 of 1704 🔗

You’re defining yourself by disbelieving something that doesn’t exist thereby giving credence to it in the first place.

151963 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Biker, #764 of 1704 🔗

I’m an atheist, bare faced at all times, do not believe in God/s but enough said; we should stick together ,apes an all!

152454 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Biker, #765 of 1704 🔗

I can assure you that I do not believe in god. I especially hate the idea of heaven, especially one where you are reunited with family members. My parents abused me. The last thing I would want is to be stuck with them for eternity.

152455 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to ConstantBees, #766 of 1704 🔗

Then they’ll go to Hell. Problem solved. (Doh!)

151823 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to annie, 3, #767 of 1704 🔗

Yes. It’s a diversion from the present issue, in which we need consensus.

151855 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to RickH, #768 of 1704 🔗

Exactly that, I don’t share your political or Annie’s spiritual beliefs, but that is something to put to one side for the time being.

151825 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to annie, 5, #769 of 1704 🔗

I’m not religious personally but I’m fully with you on this Annie, always interested to read your posts on here, full respect.

The people choosing to be abrasive on this particular issue have previous form, so this reassures me they are in the minority.

151762 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Biker, 2, #770 of 1704 🔗

Totally agree, The republic of Giliad is closer than we think.

151854 ▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Biker, 1, #771 of 1704 🔗

Why do you have such low regard for apes?

151872 ▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to PastImperfect, 1, #772 of 1704 🔗

It’s all the Bananas and the chest beating. it’s a bit gay

151747 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #774 of 1704 🔗

What’s the most up to date figure for the average lag between “positive test” result and death?

151773 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Lockdown Truth, #775 of 1704 🔗

How long is a piece of string? I think it is easier to consider the gap between a +ve test and becoming a hospital case, when looking at the stats I tend to work on 10 – 14 days for a +ve test to potentially become a hospital case

151845 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Lockdown Truth, #776 of 1704 🔗

It’s almost meaningless as I’m not sure we know what death by COVID actually means. If we do then I don’t think they’re keeping track and just putting everyone that tests positive into the same category.

151763 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 4, #777 of 1704 🔗

BBC R2 news 14.00
“Thousands of people are gathered in central London to protest against lockdown. …:

152106 ▶▶ mjr, replying to karenovirus, #778 of 1704 🔗

against lockdown? and not vaccines, 5G, immigration, etc etc ? they actually said lockdown. ?

151767 Sir Patrick Vaccine, 10, #779 of 1704 🔗

Those who actually use their brains and realise that if this virus was so deadly you wouldn’t be saved homemade mask made out of an old T shirt

151768 Nic, replying to Nic, 10, #780 of 1704 🔗

The comments in the daily fail are all against the massive demo in london today , I despair at the pathetic sheep that seem to be majority in this country.however makes me wonder if the comments are doctored in some way, as the few comments praising the demo have lots of likes strange.

151771 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nic, 13, #781 of 1704 🔗

Bots, trolls and 77th brigade.

151787 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Nic, 5, #782 of 1704 🔗

Not looked myself. A genuine question are ťhey all real comments. Is their a particular length and format to the comments. Daily mail is a critical battle ground for hesrts and minds whether people like that or not. It will be a busy day shaping opinion in our nations army today. They may even their camoflage sleeves rolled up.

152451 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Basics, 1, #783 of 1704 🔗

The pro-lockdown comments usually have a theme for the day. They’ll all pick some particular statement and write variations on it, like “selfish”. The next day, the theme will change and they’ll go on about “wait until someone you know dies from it.” I don’t know if they’re reading each other’s comments and just repeating them or if there’s some group/multiple accounts behind it.

151804 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Nic, 4, #784 of 1704 🔗

I love the demo, it means fuck all though but hey lets go and demo. I’m drive my atmospheric reprocessing bike down and shout “down with this short of thing”. Maybe they’ll be a chance to pick up some earnest anti lockdown chick and we could flirt and laugh and meet for a drink and go back to her house and fuck and meet each other again and then fuck some more then move in together and have kids and buy plastic pish from China, maybe go on holiday, a new atmospheric reprocessing car to drive the little bastards around. We could teach them that there are gods and they need you to not think for yourself and pay your taxes and the Queen rules us even though i’m not a bee.
Nah i’ll stay in, it’s much less hassle

151807 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Nic, 4, #785 of 1704 🔗

Remember – despite some good balancing articles, that the Bile supported Hitler.

151815 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Nic, 2, #786 of 1704 🔗

Mostly bots outside the country, apparently a lot in Ireland

151866 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Dan Clarke, #787 of 1704 🔗

How did you determine that (as I am in Ireland would love to know if this is true)?

151881 ▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Ewan Duffy, #788 of 1704 🔗

Which is why I said apparently, told this but kept an open mind

151817 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Nic, 5, #789 of 1704 🔗

But the top-rate comments are pro, if that means much?

152447 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Charlie Blue, #790 of 1704 🔗

Exactly. That’s where I go first (and add some up more upvotes).

151974 ▶▶ Stevie1984, replying to Nic, 6, #791 of 1704 🔗

I noticed the Daily Mail comments being manipulated on a massive scale at the start of the first scamdemic. They returned to normal around 6 weeks ago. I say normal! But I still noticed some articles having comments reset when there were too many sceptical votes on a covid story. For instance if a bedwetting covid article got a sceptical comment that received thousands of votes. The comments would be reset back to almost zero. It appears now that sceptical comments are throttled so as not to grow too large to become a problem.

151775 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 9, #792 of 1704 🔗

My son had his appendix removed on Thursday. He had COVID test and was negative. If it was positive, would he be listed as a COVID hospitalisation?

Slightly rhetorical

151791 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Sarigan, 6, #793 of 1704 🔗


151796 ▶▶ scepticalsue, replying to Sarigan, 4, #794 of 1704 🔗

Yes he would. Hope your little lad makes a full and swift recovery Offlands!

151797 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Sarigan, #795 of 1704 🔗

What do you think?

151803 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Sarigan, 1, #796 of 1704 🔗


151890 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Sarigan, 1, #797 of 1704 🔗


151966 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Sarigan, 1, #798 of 1704 🔗

He would

151778 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 12, #799 of 1704 🔗

To @Mayo/Pinch, I’m very curious about something.

Sure, you think it’s fun to come in here and rile up a few lockdown sceptics. Fill your boots. But your side of the argument is resulting in economic ruin/suicides/ cancer deaths/developing world famine and so on. Not so funny, really.

Can you give us your version of the missing cost/benefit analysis on this? How many lives (even better QALYs) will be lost as a result of the lockdowns and distancing?

And you are, it seems to me, supporting the ruining of your own life. You come across as young and inexperienced. Don’t you worry that your prospects are reducing every day of this madness? Most of us here have actually lived a good portion of a proper life, so we don’t have as much to lose as you.

151818 ▶▶ petgor, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #800 of 1704 🔗

There are rumours of increasing numbers of suicides. That is not a figure that the government will release.

151990 ▶▶ matt, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #801 of 1704 🔗

I don’t think Pinch is anti-sceptic. I disagree with him on the fundamental value of modelling, but he’s more sceptical than not. Mayo, on the other hand seems to in fact be Ferguson, but since he’s not very good at articulating his actual argument, I’m not at all sure what he thinks.

151782 annie, 9, #802 of 1704 🔗

Contact lens wearers: if face gags cause dryness of the eye you should NOT be wearing one. It could cause serious and permanent damage. At the very least, check with your optician, if s/he is not a total zombie.

151789 scepticalsue, replying to scepticalsue, 5, #803 of 1704 🔗

Spotted this at the bottom of my Tesco receipt today, what sort of problems are being hidden while everyone else focuses on nothing but Covid?
Imagine being trapped in lockdown with your abuser?
Imagine charities seeing record low levels of donations while people give the NHS millions (see Sir Tom’s campaign).
This is a national shame!

151811 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to scepticalsue, 4, #804 of 1704 🔗

Crap ENABLERS of The Corona Project is Tescos, just like all the other food distributors. All four of them. Or is it six? We are in big trouble.

151836 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Two-Six, 5, #805 of 1704 🔗

Look at their Board’s make-up and connections. I did a while back:

Asda – owned by Walmart, implicated as being willing participants in false flag shootings and planning to sue empty premises as temporary FEMA camps.

Sainsbury’s – the top woman at their charity think is linked to Bill gates

Tescos’s – many of the Board linked to international banking, pharmaceutical industry and back to Bill Gates

Morrisons – probably the most “independent” but their board seems to be made up of “rejects” from the other big 3

Aldi/Lidl – owned by brothers who hate each other and just want to annoy each other which is why their shops are put close to each other apparently, good gossip in Germany and Poland about it according to the son.

151993 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #806 of 1704 🔗

As a German I would like to correct you on Aldi/Lidl. They are separate companies owned by separate owners.
Aldi is owned by 2 brothers, you have Aldi North and Aldi South in Germany. They are competing with each other. Not sure who owns international Aldi shops. Could not be bothered to research that now.

152208 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Silke David, #807 of 1704 🔗

Will let the son know, try and find out who is giving him the gossip.

152325 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Silke David, #808 of 1704 🔗

I think ours are mostly Aldi South for some reason. Aldi North has a different logo.

152643 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Awkward Git, #809 of 1704 🔗

yep just like that

151902 ▶▶ davews, replying to scepticalsue, #810 of 1704 🔗

Been on Tesco receipts for quite a long time now, never worked out what they are actually trying to say.

151798 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #811 of 1704 🔗

Has anyone read the laworfiction update on the face coverings/masks for shop workers.


Very interesting (my stuff in italics):

members’ clubs” – so I guess that means in the bars in the House of Commons?

There is no law that masks must be worn when walking to a table and can be removed when sat down” – so how do you eat then?

employees and workers providing services at the premises are required to wear face covering (unless reasonable excuse exemption applies – see below) in any area of the premises which is open to the public AND where they are likely to come within “close contact” (not defined) of any member of the public.”

“An employee or worker is not required to wear the face covering during such time as they will be likely to remain more than, say, 2 meters away from the public (though closer could be argued). ” – as he states in his commentary, this if the staff do not come close to a customer they do not have to a wear a mask, it’s not a blanket must do as the MSM and suggest.

All good stuff and might print a few copies and leave them round places I go.

151810 ▶▶ petgor, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #812 of 1704 🔗

Many businesses/shops exhibit signs such as “masks are compulsory”. With that in mind one wonders whether those who are exempt, whether or not they wear a lanyard, will have the courage to enter.

151813 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to petgor, 3, #813 of 1704 🔗

not many

151875 ▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to petgor, 4, #814 of 1704 🔗

I just will not spend anywhere if it is not fun why would you? So we are saving a fair bit of money in our house.

151988 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to petgor, 5, #815 of 1704 🔗

I challenged the person standing behind the till – opposite the door, so I stayed outside – today about their horrible sign. Her excuse was that you just have to mention it, I said I do not have be put into that position and it just puts me off.

The shop sells crafts from local artists and I was hoping to maybe find a sunflower brooch I can wear instead of lanyard. I did suggest to them to advise the artist that might be a good seller.

151799 Basics, replying to Basics, 4, #816 of 1704 🔗

London Trafalger. Peirs Corbyn speaking. Square is full, he says, with thousands waiting in hydepark where they are going to march to.

151806 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Basics, 1, #817 of 1704 🔗

Have you found a live stream where you can hear the speakers? Ruptly sounds like the sound is blurred!

151802 dpj, replying to dpj, 1, #819 of 1704 🔗

Today’s update from Scotland

Scottish numbers: 26 September 2020

  • 714 new cases of COVID-19 reported; this is 11.5% of newly tested individuals
  • 0 new reported deaths of people who have tested positive
  • 11 people were in intensive care yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19
  • 99 people were in hospital yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19
  • 17,518 new tests for COVID-19 that reported results

Weekly figures

  • new cases reported: week ending 25 September: 37,796 people newly tested – 3,106 positive
  • number of tests: 101,243 tests reported week ending 26 September (19 tests per 1,000 population)

So in last week over 3k postive tests but less than 10 deaths (I think) and something like 40-50 admitted to hospital max. This suggests that almost all the postive tests are nothing to be too concerned about and if they were actually postive with symptoms as long as they self isolate should hopefully infect no one else. Ignoring postive tests still no sign anything getting out of control.

151822 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to dpj, 5, #820 of 1704 🔗


151834 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to dpj, 4, #821 of 1704 🔗

Admitted to hospital for heart attack, ingrowing toe nail, cancer???

152007 ▶▶ Basics, replying to dpj, 1, #822 of 1704 🔗

Sorry dpj I posted same before realising you’ve posted it here.

151805 petgor, replying to petgor, 16, #823 of 1704 🔗

I was approached today by an NHS worker trying to persuade passersby to get the Track and Trace app. Obviously he wore one of those blue masks. What was noticeable, apart from his being oblivious to my cynicism, was the fact that as he spoke to me, his breath was constantly flattening his mask against his face. A sure sign that
a minimal amount of air was getting into his lungs, it would be mostly carbon dioxide. This is just another indication that more unthinking attention is being paid to government orders rather than what might be the implications of those orders.

Co2 for those wearing masks for long shifts hardly equates to the idea of a healthy mind and a healthy body.

151846 ▶▶ guy153, replying to petgor, 8, #824 of 1704 🔗

Well not literally mostly. Air you breathe out is only about 4% CO2. Otherwise things like mouth to mouth resuscitation wouldn’t work.

But I completely agree with you that wearing those things all the time seems rather unhealthy as well as being completely pointless.

151926 ▶▶▶ petgor, replying to guy153, 4, #825 of 1704 🔗

But I see people on their bikes, when in theory lungs are often at full stretch, or should be if you are looking for maximum benefit.

And whether or not it is as low as 4%, the inflow of fresh air must be seiously limited and if for long periods, say when driving with one on or working in a room without windows, as a friend of mine does in a security booth, the lack of outside fresh air cannot be a good thing.

152672 ▶▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to petgor, #826 of 1704 🔗

Saddest thing I saw today was a 50 something cyclist in the middle of rural Englandshire grinding his way up a long steep hill, where as I passed him I noticed that he was wearing a mask. I found myself wondering if he had evolved sufficiently that he had learned to breathe through his arsehole.

151879 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to petgor, 4, #827 of 1704 🔗

what did you say to him?

I/ need to consider my response if this ever happens to me. If I don’t have something pre-prepared I will probably headbutt them.

151941 ▶▶▶ petgor, replying to Farinances, 3, #828 of 1704 🔗

Quite honestly, one loses the will to discuss with those who have swallowed the governments line. I had my rant and then left. It is a question of letting the believers and those who trust the government, which seems to be a majority, know that there are two sides to the argument.

151809 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #830 of 1704 🔗
151832 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #831 of 1704 🔗


151841 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #832 of 1704 🔗

I’m dipping into the live streams from time to time. Looks a good turnout but I’m not hearing any speeches – have they been banned from using PA equipment? On this stream they have just had a minute’s silence, maybe for the policeman who was shot.

151877 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Edward, 1, #833 of 1704 🔗

Speeches have just started. Some amplification.
Crowd listening silently to current speaker, whose name I didn’t catch.

151914 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, #834 of 1704 🔗

It was Simone.
Geezer (?) on now.

151878 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Cheezilla, #835 of 1704 🔗

Pity they can’t show the speakers. Also it is not possible to hear the speakers.

151887 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to PastImperfect, 1, #836 of 1704 🔗

Can hear them now!

151820 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #837 of 1704 🔗

The Guardian: London lockdown protesters urged to follow Covid rules.

151835 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #838 of 1704 🔗

‘MI6’s House Journal’. 🙂

151891 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to RickH, 2, #839 of 1704 🔗

We don’t read that nonsense, what makes you think that?

151920 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Biker, 2, #840 of 1704 🔗

I was borrowing the phrase from elsewhere – it’s a satirical reflection on the way in which the Groan sold its soul back in about 2009 when the Scott Trust became a limited company, and it took up a place on the D-Notice committee, sacked some of its best journalists and started to feed significant propaganda lines from establishment sources.

151829 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #841 of 1704 🔗

I’m surprised to hear that Vallance is in fact more in favour of living with the virus whereas Whitty wants permament shutdown. Vallance of course has a vested interest in keeping us all locked up until/if a vaccine appears whereas Whitty has appeared in the past to agree that the virus will be mild for most. Surely it should be the other way round?

151840 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to A. Contrarian, 6, #842 of 1704 🔗

They are all interchangeable. Good cop, bad cop. It’s all the same.

151945 ▶▶▶ John Stone, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #843 of 1704 🔗

Perhaps we should pay more attention to the PM chairing the pharmaceutical cartel (GAVI) conference in June. Back in 2011 I was on of 8 demonstrators standing outside a hotel in the City of London on a freezing June day while David Cameron and Bill Gates met to arrange that billions of British taxpayers money be subscribed to this toxic operation – I don’t know why we should be giving the vaccine industry our money, indemnities etc etc. But Johnson is hooked on technological solutions which defy common sense, and normality will not be allowed to be restored until countless billions have been sunk into it all, except it won’t be normal because not only will the technology not work but we will be in a state of social and financial ruin. I think this junk has always been directed from within the Department of Health but Prime Ministers are only all too pleased to jump on the bandwagon. The projects are perhaps not defined by any of these people but they hide behind one another.

152631 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to John Stone, #844 of 1704 🔗


151876 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #845 of 1704 🔗

Vallance’s idea of ‘living with the virus’ involves everyone having the vaccine

151957 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to A. Contrarian, 6, #846 of 1704 🔗

Has anyone seen the picture of them all before the press conference. UK column covered it yesterday. Shitty was pounding the desk obviously shouting, vallance, Doris, Cummings and handcock standing around like naughty schoolgirls.

Shitty is a nasty piece of work, don’t let the badly fitting suit and face like a melted candle fool you.

151976 ▶▶ Caramel, replying to A. Contrarian, #847 of 1704 🔗

What does the public think of Vallance and Whitty?

152031 ▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Caramel, 1, #848 of 1704 🔗

‘Good to have actual experts who can explain things simply’ is the general tenor of the response to their presentation on Monday as far as I have heard.

151848 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 8, #849 of 1704 🔗

I wonder if you ” Topped yourself” no longer being able to endure this madness and at the autopsy, the doctors detected CV, would you be classed as dying from it?

151853 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #850 of 1704 🔗

It’s a sickening thought but very plausible

151868 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #851 of 1704 🔗


151871 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, 16, #852 of 1704 🔗

Ironially a healthy person who commits suicide because of lockdown IS actually a more direct Covid death than a 90 year old with cancer

151880 ▶▶ JoeBlogg, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #853 of 1704 🔗

Of course, why not, especially given the bonus incentive 💸 💰

151992 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #854 of 1704 🔗

According to the government increased suicides as a result of the lockdown measures are “indirect COVID 19 deaths”.

152287 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Steve Hayes, #855 of 1704 🔗


151857 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #856 of 1704 🔗

Can anyone on here shed light on the supposed increasing number of hospital admissions for women in the 20-35 category? Is this a function of hospitals opening up – routine procedures but requiring a test for women in maternity and gynae wards? As the ‘long covid’ narrative seems destined to failure (if it is an issue, then surely it would be totally immoral to be considering challenge trials in January) is this a last gasp attempt to nudge the Millennials by working on the women?

151863 ▶▶ Nic, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #857 of 1704 🔗

This I’m sure is a lie ,and put in just to try to scare the under 40s I just dont believe it as there are no stats to back it up.

151864 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #858 of 1704 🔗

I think you nailed it.

Women have these ‘extra’ necessary procedures to consider (see me and the smear test I’m STILL putting off). Plus, women are more likely to seek medical attention for all ailments. Women will probably be the ones going to hospital with minor Covid symptoms, being admitted for 24 hours, then being discharged again.

151867 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, #859 of 1704 🔗

(Plus youngish women are probably the least likely to have serious complications, after children and young adults. Prime targets for P2 testing, and unnecessary hospital admission. Admit them all! ….. Yet, they don’t die)

(let’s face it, nobody dies any more)

152058 ▶▶▶▶ FenTyger, replying to Farinances, #860 of 1704 🔗

Please, please get checked.

151947 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Farinances, 1, #861 of 1704 🔗

Please don’t put it off, it’s really important. I pushed to have my routine mammogram brought forward because I could see the national 3 year screening programme descending into chaos. The thing with the NHS is it’s a zero sum game, and those that push get seen while sadly those who don’t or who cannot fight their corner (older people with no relatives living close by) get neglected to a shocking level. It was a national disgrace before covid struck.

151894 ▶▶ Jody, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 8, #862 of 1704 🔗

The government and media always look to target women of childbearing age with their propaganda, because, on a day to day level, these women are the most influential members of society; they maintain social and familial relationships and are able to spread the message. Thankfully, there are many intelligent women who don’t fall for it, as evidenced on this website.

151932 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Jody, 1, #863 of 1704 🔗

Yes, agree very much. As a sideline I am interested in Temperance, and the coevolution of that with other societal issues in both the US and UK in the late Victorian to inter-War era. Women – or shall I say certain women – not unlike some of the types that have been instrumental in pushing the climate change bandwagon and lockdown are the ones who are the enforcers of the largely male ‘elites’. Often they are married to them, or at least, part of the inner circle – think, certain Times columnists, for example. Those types of women are part of the problem, and by God, do they enjoy bullying other women!

152010 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #864 of 1704 🔗

I saw a Facebook post saying that a young mother to be (8 months pregnant) was in Basildon hospital ‘because of Coronavirus’ and said she was intubated. They posted a picture of her in the bed and with a tube running from her nose. Is this likely?

152229 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Chris Hume, #865 of 1704 🔗

That doesn’t sound good. One of the doctors on here might be able to shed some light on this.

151869 Jody, replying to Jody, 1, #866 of 1704 🔗

I’m trying to attach a jpeg to a comment, but the “attach image” function on the bottom right of the box doesn’t seem to work. Can anyone advise on this? Thanks.

151884 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Jody, #867 of 1704 🔗

Copy and paste works on some browsers/devices

151898 ▶▶▶ Jody, replying to Strange Days, #868 of 1704 🔗

Thanks. I’ll give it a try…!

151899 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Jody, 1, #869 of 1704 🔗

Upload it here and post the link. Works a treat 🙂

151927 ▶▶▶ Jody, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 2, #870 of 1704 🔗

Yes! Like you say, it works a treat. Thank you very much.

151928 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Jody, #871 of 1704 🔗

Logged in?

Or file too big? There is a limit but I can’t remember what it is from when a message popped up when I tried to post a pic that was too big.

151940 ▶▶▶ Jody, replying to Awkward Git, #872 of 1704 🔗

Catbox worked beautifully… (see below)

151978 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Awkward Git, #873 of 1704 🔗

I think the maximum is 2MB.

152231 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Jody, #874 of 1704 🔗

You need to be logged in

151885 davews, replying to davews, 37, #875 of 1704 🔗

It is obviously getting me down. After a nice day out in West London yesterday and a walk along the Grand Union and Brent I thought I had cheered myself up. Tesco trip this morning everybody totally masked. Just been for my usual walk in the local woods after lunch and started to ponder things again. Got home and suddenly found myself crying my heart out. I am a normally sane and healthy person but this is getting ridiculous.

151895 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to davews, 30, #876 of 1704 🔗

Don’t beat yourself up for your emotional response. I’ve buckled emotionally a few times since March. It’s perfectly normal and a valid response to what’s being done to our lives and the world we live in.

151906 ▶▶▶ petgor, replying to Mark H, 9, #877 of 1704 🔗

Soon it will be a case of the living envying g the dead. After all, the future looks very bleak indeed.

152432 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to petgor, 2, #878 of 1704 🔗

I never got along with my parents, but I have to admit that I’m glad they were both spared living through this time. They died not that long before 9/11, so many years ago. Neither of them was very strong psychologically. I don’t know how they would have coped with the world falling apart before our eyes.

153581 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to petgor, #879 of 1704 🔗

Soon it will be a case of the living envying the dead.

Errr, ,what ?

151904 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to davews, 17, #880 of 1704 🔗

Even the people wearing the masks are just conforming, friend of mine shops at Tesco and is furious every time he comes out, I’ve told him to shop online, save his sanity, he says the adrenaline rush gets his heart going.

152011 ▶▶▶ FenTyger, replying to Dan Clarke, 23, #881 of 1704 🔗

One of the top comments in a Telegraph article “Am I the only one walking round tescos wanting to tear my mask off and shout are we all f…..g stupid or what”. About sums it up.

151908 ▶▶ Templeton, replying to davews, 12, #882 of 1704 🔗

If it hurts, it means you care.
Never change.

151911 ▶▶ Caramel, replying to davews, 20, #883 of 1704 🔗

I’ve cried on and off since March. It’s nothing to be ashamed of. They should be ashamed for what they’re doing. Masks are everywhere in Victoria because of the fines and heavy police response. Just about all of us on this site have probably cried.

151930 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to davews, 15, #884 of 1704 🔗

Perfectly understandable- we’ve all been there. Sometimes the cruelty and irrationality of it all is all too much. Have just been listening to relatives’ heartbreak stories of not being permitted to visit loved ones in cate homes. Couldn’t hold back the tears. Wancock and his mantra of ‘ to keep us safe’ is an out and out psychotic monster.

151935 ▶▶ RickH, replying to davews, 18, #885 of 1704 🔗

The evil being done is inexcusable. It should make a stone weep.

151939 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to RickH, 13, #886 of 1704 🔗

What is so sad is that many people must have incredibly impoverished lives in order to go along with this without flinching and to think that they’re doing good.

151973 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to davews, 17, #887 of 1704 🔗

I went to my lovely local park for the first time since I started work mid July for the first time, as I stopped working yesterday. Whilst in the park I realised that the anxiety I experience for 6 hours working in a public facing job in a shopping centre made me so uncomfortable going out on my days off, that I stayed in. Horrible!!
It felt so freeing to be able to go for a walk!

151985 ▶▶ Paul, replying to davews, 20, #888 of 1704 🔗

I have have cried this week too,even the few things left that keep me sane are having less and less positive effect on me.For every uplifting and hopeful occurrence there are now always many more dispiriting ones,I am feeling worse now than ever before.
To me it is the overall injustice and wrongness of everything,seeing how much cruelty and inhumanity is being inflicted on a lot of people,the feeling of being pretty much powerless to do something that makes anything more than a very slight chink in the armour of madness that has enveloped us so totally.
For me it has been the facemasks that have taken away the last bit of hopefulness I had,I do not and will never wear one,but even a five minute shop visit is now almost too much to handle,I am always the only one without a mask and no matter how strong I am determined to be the dirty looks,mumbled comments and tuts are getting too much.Before this week I could at least go to shops where I knew the staff never wore masks and I felt a lot more comfortable not being the only one without one,but it was obvious the odious bastards in London were going to take that little bit of relief away.

152036 ▶▶▶ Steve, replying to Paul, 10, #889 of 1704 🔗

I too have never worn a mask, and I’ve been avoiding doing anything that will require me to wear one. For me the mask wearing is the most odious disheartening and depressing part of this whole fiasco, simply because medically it’s pointless, but it has become a symbol of forced conformity.

152037 ▶▶▶ davews, replying to Paul, 6, #890 of 1704 🔗

Thanks all, good to know I am not alone. It certainly seems the atmosphere has changed and feeling I have to wear a mask, horrible as it is, just to not depress me more. At least the checkout staff at my Tesco are still maskless, but behind loads of perspex.

Just been doing my blog about yesterday’s walking, I just need I find something to do to keep my mind off things.

Thanks again.

152317 ▶▶▶ Jane G, replying to Paul, 2, #891 of 1704 🔗

Don’t feel feel too bad if people look at you- it might not be meant to be a dirty look. I was walking round a garden centre today and feeling really fed up with everything after a visit to the dentist, where they treated me like I’d been in a radiation accident.
There was a lady at the garden centre without a mask and I only looked to see what it said on her lanyard. I envied her but I’m gutless and so wear the rag. Chin up!

152112 ▶▶ Sue, replying to davews, 5, #892 of 1704 🔗

We’ve all been there paul…hardly a day goes by that i don’t shed a tear of sadness and frustration of the absolute madness surrounding us with no end in sight and knowing it will get a whole lot worse.
Day by day the government and media turn the screw with more ridiculous stories, fear and restrictions. I wish i was a compliant sheep as ignorance, acceptance and life would be much easier to bear, but i’m not and i fear for the future, mine and the country.

151900 Hubes, replying to Hubes, 35, #893 of 1704 🔗

Yesterday I posted the complaint that I sent to a pub that asked me Thursday why I was exempt from wearing a face covering. I had an email first thing today from the area manager.

Thank you for bringing this matter to my attention.

Firstly, please accept my sincere apologies for the unfortunate incident as described in your communication and also my assurance that no offence to you was intended by any member of the team at the (pub name)

As you have stated, the rules requiring the wearing of face coverings are new to the pub environment, only coming into force on the day of your visit. Whilst I can assure you that our businesses have all been briefed regarding implementation of these new Covid-19 rules, it would appear that this was not handled appropriately by the team member upon your arrival at the (pub name)

I have been to the (pub in question) today to discuss your visit and to ensure that a process is in place for all of the team to be re-briefed and coached regarding their responsibility surrounding the issue of guests wearing face coverings. I have also instructed that a member of the management team must carry out the host/greeter role to ensure that there is no repeat of this issue.

In order for us to fulfil our responsibility to implement the Government’s Covid-19 rules, our team will continue to remind guests that they are required to wear face coverings when entering and walking around the pub. However, they will not question a guest who informs us that they are exempt from doing so.

Once again, please accept my sincere apologies for any distress and inconvenience that this matter has caused and thank you for giving me the opportunity to address it.

151903 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Hubes, 7, #894 of 1704 🔗

Good result.

151915 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Hubes, 11, #895 of 1704 🔗

Excellent. People must continue to complain.

151918 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to Hubes, 5, #896 of 1704 🔗

Good for you!

151919 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Hubes, 8, #897 of 1704 🔗


One company and premises at a time.

152634 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Hubes, #898 of 1704 🔗

Well done!! Let’s keep pushing back!

151901 Telpin, replying to Telpin, 21, #899 of 1704 🔗

I know this has already been posted already but I would urge anyone who hasn’t listened to it already, to listen to Sunetra Gupta’s interview with Alison Pearson on ‘Planet Normal’ this week. She came across as incredibly dignified, intelligent, measured and principled. At times the interview was quite moving- when she spoke about some of the vitriol she’s been subjected to ( being called a ‘traitor’ by her peers on Twitter) and when addressing the allegation that lockdown sceptics are non empathetic individualists. Quite the reverse- it’s the lockdownistas that are ‘ throwing the working classes under the bus’.

151950 ▶▶ MaxPower, replying to Telpin, 1, #900 of 1704 🔗

She was fantastic

151909 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 16, #901 of 1704 🔗

Today’s visit to the optician was an eye opener- awful pun!

My badge was accepted and the optician was friendly, helpful and very thorough.

However, plastic everywhere : perspex screens at the counter to protect the receptionists; plastic covers on seats in the waiting area and the staff all done up in plastic aprons and gloves.

The opticians are also obliged to wear masks throughout the working day and to enter relevant examination findings on their PC keyboards with their gloves on.

None of this stuff can be recycled; the optician told me how worried she is about the waste accumulation.

The plastic aprons in particular struck me as a completely useless.

Added to all this clutter, bottles of sanitiser.

At least they didn’t take my temperature, but what a cumbersome costly business this is. It must be making a large dent in business revenue.

Needless to say, the opticians are now trying to clear their waiting lists, which are considerable.

151917 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to wendyk, 14, #902 of 1704 🔗

The government want to make doing anything so unpleasant that people will just give up. It’s sustainable.

152095 ▶▶ mjr, replying to wendyk, 3, #903 of 1704 🔗

i went to specsavers yesterday morning just to check when i was due a test.. staff all masked .. door locked. Me unmasked. Assistant unlocked the door. i told her what i wanted. She locked the door again.. went to computer to check. came back. unlocked the door, told me …. locked the door again .

152172 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to mjr, 1, #904 of 1704 🔗

Should be renamed Mindbogglers! Barking mad and a waste of time and resources.

How to deter potential customers.

151910 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 21, #905 of 1704 🔗

The speaker just said to the crowd, put your hand up if you were here the last time, thousands of hands went up, how many of you were here the time before that, thousands of hands, how about the time before that, thousands of hands. NOW put your hand up IF YOU GOT COVID….NO HANDS

152004 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Two-Six, 7, #906 of 1704 🔗

A decent clip of this could go …ahem.. viral

151921 Jody, replying to Jody, 16, #907 of 1704 🔗

If it’s any consolation to fellow sceptics in the UK, we have comparable levels of insanity here in France. I took this photo in our local supermarket, recently; this is the seat the checkout girl has to sit on while she’s processing your goods.

When she sits down, the perspex flexes and bangs her on the head. She endures this with quiet stoicism.

I’m sure that the Coronavirus pops along and says to itself, “You know what, I’m not going to bother infecting that girl working at the checkout, ‘cos she’s got a piece of perspex crudely attached to the back of her chair with a stretch of gaffer tape. I think I’ll go and infect one of the customers instead…”

comment image

151936 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jody, 6, #908 of 1704 🔗

That’s bonkers!

151924 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 2, #909 of 1704 🔗

The live stream has just gone when the speaker was talking about deaths in care homes…hummm

151934 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Two-Six, 4, #910 of 1704 🔗

He’d just asked some very powerful questions.
It’s back now!

151925 Winston Smith, 10, #911 of 1704 🔗

Mayo’s mum has called him down for his snack, he’ll be back soon…….

151929 wendyk, 4, #912 of 1704 🔗


For those of us who couldn’t be there.

Another bit of silliness: protesters are exempt from the rule of 6, but must obey social distancing.

151933 Tee Ell, replying to Tee Ell, 2, #913 of 1704 🔗

Police have just started attacking the Trafalgar Square protestors. https://youtu.be/RVqDKi8Qr6A

151942 ▶▶ chris, replying to Tee Ell, 2, #914 of 1704 🔗

Some very angry protesters, I wonder whose side they’re on ?

151948 ▶▶▶ chris, replying to chris, 2, #915 of 1704 🔗

Riot police retreating

152030 ▶▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to chris, 2, #916 of 1704 🔗

The cunts deserve a good kicking fucking shit bags

151943 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Tee Ell, #917 of 1704 🔗

Excellent. Not as good as the UFC but it has it charms

152005 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Biker, 1, #918 of 1704 🔗

The early UFC’s were better 🤓

151951 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tee Ell, #919 of 1704 🔗

It’s perfectly peaceful on this feed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEWQhVOOL2E

Lack of gazebos here. I wonder if Ruptly’s video is of last week. Notice there arre no comments allowed.

151956 ▶▶▶ chris, replying to Cheezilla, #920 of 1704 🔗

RT feed

151954 Dale, replying to Dale, 1, #922 of 1704 🔗

So Sweden did lock down. They just did it voluntarily. Tegnell appears to be saying that lockdowns work and the reason the Spain is getting positives is that it opened up too early. Hard to know what to believe.

151958 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Dale, 5, #923 of 1704 🔗

It depends how you define a lockdown surely? In Melbourne, Peru, Spain, UK etc it was house arrest maybe with an hour of exercise per day if you were lucky, shops and schools shut. In Sweden, if you do believe they did a voluntary “lockdown” it was with no house arrest, no limit on gatherings, most schools open, all shops, pubs and restaurants open etc and people out and about within reason. They sound very different to me.

151964 ▶▶ Jakehadlee, replying to Dale, 8, #924 of 1704 🔗

What he’s saying is that full lockdown plus reopening is the worse option – you can’t lockdown and hope it will go away as all you do is delay the point when you need to let it run it’s course. The better option is to let it run its course while protecting the vulnerable.

151998 ▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Jakehadlee, 5, #925 of 1704 🔗

I think things like being more respectful in behaviour, ie some social distancing, washing hands, really protecting the elderly all had started to help in those early March weeks & London had already reached peak infection by then.
Trouble is as we know, there was a panic & a PM with his eye off the ball, not at several key COBRA meetings (rumoured for domestic reasons) & this led to several key people taking over & presenting him with sort of advice that kicked him into going nuclear.
Heard R4 week in Westminster today about 11.10am. Toby & one of Bojo SPADs when London Mayor & in FO. He said how he thought that the PM should be more honest & tell everyone how hard he worked every day. Getting up at 5 am, reading all papers online, a red box, going for a run. Listening, was I meant to be impressed or reassured? I absolutely wasn’t. Hasn’t he ever met someone running their own business?
I would feel much less angry if I thought he was able to come to a measured decision and communicate the evidence himself clearly and simply out loud. Speaking it is a really good test that shows how you got to that point without confusion.
I don’t believe he can do that as I think he has been hijacked and is making REALLY BAD DECISIONS.

151971 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Dale, #926 of 1704 🔗

Back to front thinking. Sweden were better at locking down without actually being forced to like here? I don’t quite get that logic. That’s a real stretch

152025 ▶▶▶ Eamon, replying to BeBopRockSteady, -1, #927 of 1704 🔗

They are probably under slightly stricter voluntary rules than we in mid September. They are just more progressive and consistent with an end goal (control not total suppression)

151977 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Dale, 5, #928 of 1704 🔗

I think this video of a shopping centre in Sweden actually illustrates very real differences :


This is not the same as our experience.

151980 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Dale, #929 of 1704 🔗

Look at actual mobility stats if you want hard data.

151989 ▶▶▶ Dale, replying to Tee Ell, #930 of 1704 🔗

I thought I’d read that social mobility markedly declined for one month. In any case, Sweden (Tegnell) did panic, albeit perhaps to a lesser extent. Locked down nursing homes. Cancelled colleges and universities. Banned larger gatherings. Tegnell himself said that the government was paying people to stay home. And even now shops and restaurants have ‘stand here’ circles.

152003 ▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Dale, #931 of 1704 🔗

Yep you’re right – but mobility in places with government imposed lockdowns reduced even more from what I’ve seen (when comparing e.g. Stockholm to London).

151986 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Dale, 7, #932 of 1704 🔗

I think he’s been got at. No doubt about it. Nothing he has said in the past week makes any sense and totally contradicts everything he said before. Very worrying.

151997 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Chris Hume, 3, #933 of 1704 🔗

He has obviously been spoken to

152001 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Chris Hume, 1, #934 of 1704 🔗

I’ve suspected that.

152016 ▶▶▶ Howie59, replying to Chris Hume, 1, #935 of 1704 🔗

Depends upon how far along the Hancock/Icke scale you are. If you believe there are vested interests in keeping this going until a vaccine can be rolled out and Sweden’s nonconformity is showing that none of this is necessary, then sure, I could quite believe that those who make policy would be threatened. If anything, I am surprised Sweden have been allowed to carry on without lockdown for so long.

152023 ▶▶ Eamon, replying to Dale, #936 of 1704 🔗

I think he is being extremely careful politically, Sweden introduced pretty stringent social distancing requirements and loosened/reintroduced them slowly and progressively. The problem with Spain/UK/France is they are trying for zero covid with knee jerk making the numbers bounce around like crazy with no endpoint.
Boris leaves everything too late then jerks around..we should never have shut schools, brought sixth forms and colleges back some time before the summer holidays and only now be looking at opening universities.
Sweden still has work from home if you can in operation etc.
The biggest difference is their slogan is “Keep up the Good Work”.

152152 ▶▶▶ Dale, replying to Eamon, #937 of 1704 🔗

Makes me wonder if Giesecke has been Sweden’s backbone …

152072 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Dale, 3, #938 of 1704 🔗

They didn’t ‘lock down’. They advised people what to do for the best outcome. The key is carrot,not stick. Proactiveness, not cowering in fear.

152150 ▶▶▶ Dale, replying to Farinances, -1, #939 of 1704 🔗

They panicked.

152250 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Dale, 1, #940 of 1704 🔗

Or he’s saying Spain got herd immunity anyway in spite of the lockdown… Which is true.

I didn’t look at what he actually said but he has to be tactful. Herd immunity is never the “goal”. There’s a kind of omerta about it. You have to pretend it doesn’t exist and use apotropaic euphemisms for it like “zero Covid”.

151960 Mark H, replying to Mark H, 14, #941 of 1704 🔗

Watching the live footage of the protest in London and the response of the police, what sort of human being is able to stand in front of another human being, look them in the eye before brutally clubbing them over the head? Is there a word for that sort of behaviour?

151967 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Mark H, 8, #942 of 1704 🔗

Yes, it’s ‘useful idiot’ or ‘running dog’. Very very sad times.

151969 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Mark H, 8, #943 of 1704 🔗

Cresida dick

152020 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Mark H, 2, #944 of 1704 🔗

I saw several people bleeding and even the paramedics didn’t seem interested in helping them

152070 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Mark H, 1, #945 of 1704 🔗

Psychopaths who can’t get into the army.

152178 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Farinances, #946 of 1704 🔗

You mean they aren’t psychopathic enough? 🙂

152424 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to RickH, #947 of 1704 🔗

My father spent 31 years in the army (Indian and then British) in Burma (Defeat into Victory), Surabaya (Chinese communist insurgency), India (Partition), Malaya (Emergency), BAOR (Front line against USSR). I hope to meet you one day to discuss his and your relative contributions to the preservation of our freedoms. He was a grammar school boy from Stoke before you start your class warrior bullshit.

152206 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Mark H, 1, #948 of 1704 🔗

Homestly to me the frontline police today looked dishevelled and inept. They did not present as a cohesive unit of well a drilled dominant force.
Easy to say having not been clubbed round the head by a policeman (it is all men who do the clubbing – noticed that?).

They clubbed people as a result of walking into a position they should not of got themselves into.

For what its worth there was one muslim police lady with baton drawn on her sholder who is either extremely brave or the other thing. She had no physical strength was about 5 foot tall and should not have been there. A risk to herself and her thuggish colleagues who would see her as a liabilty. Her skills should be used elsewhere, I guess she wanted the OT.

The male police are quite simply people you don’t want to know personally. Nothing in their behaviour is admirable or commands respect.

151965 Marina Peerman, replying to Marina Peerman, 5, #949 of 1704 🔗

As a relatively inexperienced user of social media, I just wanted to ask if I am allowed to post one of the earlier brilliant comments on my own Facebook feed and crediting it to a Lockdown Sceptic contributor?

151968 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Marina Peerman, #950 of 1704 🔗

Don’t see why not.

151970 ▶▶ Caramel, replying to Marina Peerman, 2, #951 of 1704 🔗

You don’t have to credit it if you don’t want anyone to know that you read this site.

I’ve got a Word document with comments from here that I like.

151987 ▶▶▶ Marina Peerman, replying to Caramel, 3, #952 of 1704 🔗

Thanks. Everyone knows I read this site – I was just concerned about the anonymity of the sceptic who wrote it. But thanks for the go-ahead! And great idea about collecting some of these comments in a word doc. Maybe one day when the tide has finally turned, it could be used as compulsory reading for all media and government trainees in preparation for the next Coronavirus 🙂

152014 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Marina Peerman, 5, #953 of 1704 🔗

Any hint of another Corona virus and all ‘public health experts’ should be gagged, tied up and locked away – we’ll take our chances without their help

151975 Basics, replying to Basics, 13, #954 of 1704 🔗

“The right of every man and woman to breathe freely.”

Winston Churchill, ‘The Gestapo Speech’, labelled by some the ‘crazy broadcast’, I wonder who put that brand on it?

Three or four generations ago Churchill, in June 1945, made a short two minute speech. He spoke about an authoritian hand being placed across individuals mouths and nostrils.

He continued by saying the socialist ideals he saw would end with the civil service being neither civil nor serving, do we not see that today? Witty, Vallance, Cummings and hidden otgers lead our politicians. Our politicians allow them to

Where would the ordinary people be when this mighty organism has them in it’s grip? said Churchill. Us ordinary people will be exactly where we are sliding in the dirction we see before us.

David Ellis and David Scott had an unmissable discussion on the speech and the catastrophic failure of our democracy. They discuss what we need we don’t have right now. https://youtu.be/hbzuUBTrG8w

All absolutely relevant to lockdown.

151983 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Basics, -7, #955 of 1704 🔗

Three or four generations ago Churchill, in June 1945, made a short two minute speech.”

Yes – he was barking by that time, and being the old egotist that he was, was willing to make up any old hysterical crap (like Boris and Covid) because he was desperate to hang on.

152000 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to RickH, 6, #956 of 1704 🔗

I think that comment is a very poor response to a exceptionally prescient speech which echos through our time. I understand you haven’t wasted your time listening and so read your comment with that in mind.

Thanks for adding thought to the subject of the speech.

152009 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Basics, -5, #957 of 1704 🔗

It’s a well known ramble around the obsessions of an old man who’s miffed.

… and utter bollocks.

Bogeyman scare stories from an old Tory who didn’t have a virus to hand. Boris’s model.

We are where we are now, not because of ‘socialism’ (however that term is defined – not that Churchill had much grasp of that sort of issue), but because of 40-odd years of unregulated global capitalism initiated in the era of Thatcher and Regan. That’s the root of democratic decay.

You were were warned, and it all came true as the extremists pushed civilisation to the margins and idolized ‘markets’.

Hardly a ‘prescient’ speech – having lived through the 70-odd years since.

152027 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to RickH, 5, #958 of 1704 🔗

You are getting ever so slightly off topic, so I won’t dwell too long. If you want to point the finger at ‘unregulated global capitalism’ suggest you start in 1999. That was the year of the repeal of the 1933 Glass-Steagall Act. It happened on President Clinton’s watch. It is fair to say that Chicago School economics, promoted by Reagan and Thatcher, has a lot to answer for, particularly in antitrust and regulatory policy. However, it is the globalisation of finance that leading economists such as Joe Stiglitz, have pointed to as the root cause of the 2008 Financial Crisis. That has its origins in the repeal of Glass-Steagall.

152155 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #959 of 1704 🔗

I actually agree – but it’s all of a piece, and comes from the same right-wing obsessions. Clinton was no radical or ‘leftie’; nor was Blair of the same ilk.

But, more importantly, I agree that this debate belongs elsewhere, and requires restraint from banging the sectarian drum (especially one with holes in it) in the face of the clear and present danger of fascism.

Churchill worship is beside the point – particularly since it was Atlee who was running the country on a daily basis 🙂

152457 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RickH, #960 of 1704 🔗

My grandfather was a Yorkshire miner, so I’m no fan of Churchill.
However, if you replace the word socialism with totalitarianism , you’ll find he could well be describing the events of today.

152138 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to RickH, -1, #961 of 1704 🔗

I generally try to resist responding to nonsense and narrow political obsessions when there is a clear and present danger – even if the dangers are clearly from the right, who have been in government for 40 years,even supported by the Tooting ‘Left’. But there are limits to denial of reality and the actuality of history.

152242 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to RickH, #962 of 1704 🔗

Not clear are you suggesting I am in denial about history to a degree you don’t approve?

152236 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to RickH, 1, #963 of 1704 🔗

Junk man. Pure junk. Because as you displayed in your first reply you have a closed mind seeing first a name before examining the merit.

What my comment does is draw attention to the fact that a speech was made years ago which outlines in acurate sketch what has come to pass. Further more, to clever blokes, who have minds as broad as yours is closed reflected upon the speech and took some interesting, fundamental, thoughts from it.

We need a political solution to our situation, yet one does not present itself. The alternative may be unthinkable. We are in exceptionally serious times. These guys have something much more constructive to say than you. If it is all the same to you I’ll ignore your weird ramblings and concentrate on thoughts and ideas that may achieve something beneficial to us all.

Suggestion – listen to tge two Davids speak. It is intelligent conversation.

151999 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 3, #964 of 1704 🔗

Those two are brilliant!

152002 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #965 of 1704 🔗

Isn’t it. Really useful to understand our position right now. What we are missing.
A great conversation by the two Davids.

151991 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #966 of 1704 🔗

Scottish gov daily figures

Scottish numbers: 26 September 2020

• 714 new cases of COVID-19 reported; this is 11.5% of newly tested individuals

• 0 new reported deaths of people who have tested positive

• 11 people were in intensive care yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19

• 99 people were in hospital yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19

• 17,518 new tests for COVID-19 that reported results

Don’t try to work out the percentage of news tests as it is not possible. This is a feature of the SG reporting.

This week the daily figures increased from 48 hospital admissions to 99. Overnight to today an increase of 10 (approx) admissions on yesterday.

So of 714 tested cases 10 (approx) were added to hospital admissions.

151996 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Basics, 5, #967 of 1704 🔗

Phew, thank god they’ve imprisoned all those students in Scotland to keep the country safe otherwise the stats would be even worse! CCP Virus is rampant, rampant I say.

152008 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, #968 of 1704 🔗

Dpj posted this earlier apologies for repost.

151995 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 10, #969 of 1704 🔗

As far as I can ascertain, the police stormed the peaceful protest to prevent the German doctor from speaking.
People have moved on to Hyde Park.

152018 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #970 of 1704 🔗

Basically that. Because we weren’t social distancing! On my way home now, more later

152120 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to leggy, 1, #971 of 1704 🔗

aka not complying with fascism.

152438 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to leggy, #972 of 1704 🔗

Thanks for going on behalf of hundreds who couldn’t be there.

152428 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #973 of 1704 🔗

I heard they arrested Heiko Schoening, a doctor from Hamburg, who is a member of the non parliamentary scrutiny committee to investigate corona.

152013 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #974 of 1704 🔗

Boris just made a speech at UN meeting. Need to find a clip of it as I didn’t catch it all but he made some interesting comments.

Something about a global effort moving forward to prevent things like this happening again. One for the NWO people.

Near the end he did also say that the virus was nowhere near as bad as predicted and that it (the response?) really shouldn’t have ended up causing the damage it did. Or something along those lines.

If anybody can find a link to it that would be appreciated.

152083 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #976 of 1704 🔗

Wow, best speech he’s done for a while. Now we know exactly who he works for, if anyone was ever in doubt – Bill Gates. The prepared speech does little to hide he is anything other than the Gates/Globalist head of PR! Come on Tory MPs, he has to be removed, can’t you see what is going on here?

153398 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #977 of 1704 🔗

Given most people’s response to 9/11, 7/7, “Lee RIgby”, and other pieces of globalist bollocks, of course they cannot.

152435 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nobody2020, #978 of 1704 🔗

Wow, he’s actually sober for a change!

152203 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #979 of 1704 🔗

Boris said that?? So why is he continuing to cause yet more damage then?

152019 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, #980 of 1704 🔗

Wes Pegden has written about Modeling strict age-targeted mitigation strategies for COVID-19
In this easy to read twitter thread he explains this strategy

152032 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to swedenborg, 3, #981 of 1704 🔗

It’s interesting but the fundamental problem is Covid-19 attribution. Talk about measures is kind of moot if the total amount of people actually dying of a virus is less than 5000 people for somewhere like the UK (the paper does the US).

This is so reminiscent of climate change where the temperature anomaly graph is taken to be a real representation of tempeture variation. The real errors in the data are huge but all this is brushed aside in hypothetical land.

And just to remind Richard Pinch who thinks that actually doing a more precise attribution of Covid-19 is somehow No True Scotsman Fallacy (yes I know, you can read it in this thread). It helps get a more realistic picture because you know it’s part of the Scientific Method

152109 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to mhcp, 2, #982 of 1704 🔗

I think that this comment from the CEBM re. hospital admissions data is instructive :

It is not clear whether ‘admission’ means admitted to hospital with COVID, admitted and diagnosed with COVID while in a hospital or infected with COVID while an inpatient.”

152192 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to mhcp, #983 of 1704 🔗

thinks that actually doing a more precise attribution of Covid-19 is somehow No True Scotsman Fallacy

Let’s be accurate here. I think that in your case “more precise attribution” means “arbitrarily redefining things so that the numbers suit an otherwise baseless argument”. And that’s an example of the NTS fallacy.

152272 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Richard Pinch, #984 of 1704 🔗

Let’s be accurate here? Yes let’s actually have some bounds on what actually is a Covid case and how it is recorded. Like what Carl Henegan and his team do for instance.

Saying that I am arbitrarily redefining things just shows your spite, mate. And it shows your naivety for the Scientific Method.

You need to know what it is you’re are measuring and how to measure it before analysing the data. Otherwise you are just sampling noise.

152444 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to mhcp, #985 of 1704 🔗


I think we’re done here.

152022 Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, 4, #986 of 1704 🔗

Strange coincidence posted on a Daily Mail comment today. GSK, who are one of the firms developing a vaccine for COVID have part of the organisation in Barnard Castle (just verified this for myself).

GSK website here: https://uk.gsk.com/en-gb/about-us/uk-locations/barnard-castle/

Has anyone discussed this before on here? Surely just a coincidence that Cummings went to Castle Bernard to test his eyesight?

152024 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Ozzie, 1, #987 of 1704 🔗

I think it is a coincidence. He went to stay with family, who live in the area.

152028 ▶▶▶ nickbowes, replying to Tenchy, 1, #988 of 1704 🔗

Barnard Castle and Durham is about 18 miles distant. Glaxo has been v busy all throughout the lockdown period, i drive past the factory regularly and can only say those employees are very well looked after.

152040 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tenchy, #989 of 1704 🔗

Too far away for a ‘drive to check the eyesight’, in my view. I’m from slightly further north, but knowing Durham and Consett area, a closer, and nicer ride out would have been Shotley Bridge.

152239 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Tenchy, #990 of 1704 🔗

Presumably because they work at that vaccine place. Doesn’t his sister or something? I may have remembered wrong.

152446 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to guy153, #991 of 1704 🔗

his sister

No, that’s disinformation. Check FullFact

152613 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Richard Pinch, #992 of 1704 🔗

Why would you believe anything on FullFact?

Funding from Google, Facebook and George Soros!

152026 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Ozzie, 1, #993 of 1704 🔗

Hi Ozzie
Yes, we have discussed this on several occasions. It is a strange thing for sure.

152029 Mark H, replying to Mark H, 18, #994 of 1704 🔗


Today in London’s Trafalgar Square a mob of masked men and women attacked bystanders with clubs before evacuating the area and speeding off in vans.

152033 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Mark H, 1, #995 of 1704 🔗

Where is this being reported please.

152034 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #996 of 1704 🔗

Not on our BBC obviously

152047 ▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #997 of 1704 🔗

There is a report on the BBC website and it is actually the No 1 clicked item.

152056 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark H, replying to DressageRider, 9, #998 of 1704 🔗

Better just to watch the unedited live footage. Almost 3 hours of peaceful protest, no issues at all, then suddenly the police wade into the crowd, literally knocking people off their feet before retaliating to protestors not doing exactly what they were told by clubbing them over the head.

152062 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Mark H, 3, #999 of 1704 🔗

The excuse given is that the risk assessment had been broken by people not “social distancing” which invalidated the exemption from the mingling and maximum of 6 gathering.

152092 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to p02099003, 5, #1000 of 1704 🔗

aka ‘Non-adherence to totalitarian demands enforced by agents of a police state.’

152042 ▶▶▶ Mark H, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #1001 of 1704 🔗

Search YouTube for London protests live and filter the search results to uploaded today.

152045 ▶▶▶ dickyboy, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #1002 of 1704 🔗

This was the live feed. https://youtu.be/RVqDKi8Qr6A

Edit Fast forward to 2hrs 42

152046 ▶▶▶ Mark H, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #1003 of 1704 🔗


They’ve now moved to Hyde Park where it all continues.

152035 ▶▶ dickyboy, replying to Mark H, 2, #1004 of 1704 🔗

Looking at the footage it’s shocking how brutally efficient they were. Peaceful one minute, then the high viz marched in, apparent chaos, in no time at all they were picked up in their vans and the whole thing was finished. Beautiful in its precision. It’s terrifying.

152044 ▶▶▶ Mark H, replying to dickyboy, 4, #1005 of 1704 🔗

They used a kettling process whereby the pinned the protestors on 2 sides, preventing them leaving, and then basically started clubbing them. Some of the protestors retaliated. But, of course, when the police has the monopoly on violence, that’s never going to end well.

153391 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark H, #1006 of 1704 🔗

The don’t, and they never will.

Reading about some of the organised resistance in the ww2 ghettos is inspiring in this respect.

152048 ▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to dickyboy, 1, #1007 of 1704 🔗

Sturmabteilung efficiency.

153390 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to dickyboy, #1008 of 1704 🔗

Tish. Some people terrify far too easily.

Just looking at the footage for half an hour or so, there were several big tactical mistakes. Which if the crowd were a tad organised and aggressive, could have been heavily punished.

But we are the good guys, and things have not reached the ‘open warfare on the streets’ level yet. 🙂

152136 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Mark H, 1, #1009 of 1704 🔗

Go to YouTube. Search for London rally.

152038 MDH, replying to MDH, 12, #1010 of 1704 🔗

Me and the OH are in Cardiff until tomorrow at 6pm, when we plan on clinging to the runners of the last chopper to take off from the roof of the Welsh Assembly.

We’re visiting the in-laws and mum-in-law had booked us a table for lunch in a nearby pub. We last ate there last month. Then it was quite busy, with plenty of young families and only the staff muzzled.

We were under the impression that Wales hadn’t adopted the “wear a mask to have a wee” rule, so we’re surprised to be greeted at entry by a bright young woman, telling us that we would need to shroud our filthy faces before being seated. We weren’t happy, but complied.

We were the only customers for almost the whole lunchtime. There were always more staff than punters. The food was excellent, as per, but there was no atmosphere and the whole process felt awkward and strained.

Who knows when we’ll be able to return to Cardiff? But if you can’t draw punters on a gorgeous, bright autumn day, I can’t see the pub being open when we do manage a return visit.

Mass unemployment and the closure of the entire hospitality sector now seems the only means by which people might wake up to the catastrophe they have brought upon themselves with their capitulation to project fear.

152041 ▶▶ Cruella, replying to MDH, 2, #1011 of 1704 🔗

I think they might start to realise April next year when their tax goes up.

152392 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to MDH, #1012 of 1704 🔗

It will be too late then.

152606 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to MDH, 1, #1013 of 1704 🔗

“so we’re surprised to be greeted at entry by a bright young woman, telling us that we would need to shroud our filthy faces before being seated. We weren’t happy, but complied.”


152039 dickyboy, replying to dickyboy, 5, #1014 of 1704 🔗

This was the moment the peaceful protest turned. “They’re coming”. https://youtu.be/RVqDKi8Qr6A?t=11227

Edit, sorry the time stamp is wrong. Start at 2:41:50.

152050 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to dickyboy, 3, #1015 of 1704 🔗

I’m far from an expert on protests or military tactics but wouldn’t it be beneficial to have the police do a small amount of leg work if muzzled? They’d be fooked within a few yards.

152064 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to dickyboy, 3, #1016 of 1704 🔗

Thanks for posting this. I missed the police shoving into the square on the live link. Now I’m close to tears.

152166 ▶▶▶ Nsklent, replying to bluemoon, 5, #1017 of 1704 🔗

Me too. So far I have kept my head, not let things overwhelm, but this has absolutely upset me. The police are supposed to police by consent, as Peel intended, the police are civilians and civilians the police, not a bunch of militia thugs.

152080 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to dickyboy, 3, #1018 of 1704 🔗

Also, watching the ruck, I think a few groups of football lads would relish that kind of aggro. I feel all the ingredients are present to tip this thing over in the next few weeks. Also, these rallies need to become ashamedly populist. Play Land of Hope and Glory and Rule Britannia, water down the numbers of cranks in attendance.

152082 ▶▶ RickH, replying to dickyboy, 4, #1019 of 1704 🔗

Bottom line : the only weapons carried and disguises (masks) that I saw were carried/worn by the police.

The earlier assembly of protesters was – as far as I could see – remarkably peaceable and without threat.

152134 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to RickH, 4, #1020 of 1704 🔗

It was looking quite good natured, then the stasi arrived!

152142 ▶▶ Basics, replying to dickyboy, 1, #1021 of 1704 🔗

Thanks for posting this. I’m no expert, but it’s noticable straight away the police went in with ‘crap-hats’ (taking that from the army because it really fits). Implication being tge police did not want the images of riot squad batons horse helmets and sheilds. The police also had huge ranks of crap hats. It is a change of tactic in the police concerned by charging 100% peaceful demonstators.

Commenting after seeing 20 secs.

152145 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, #1022 of 1704 🔗

Sitting down was a canny response.

152156 ▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Basics, 1, #1023 of 1704 🔗

They should have taken the knee, except their heads would have been at baton swiping level I guess.

152377 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to bluemoon, 1, #1024 of 1704 🔗

They’d have been safe from the virus at that level though, at least 😉

152390 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, #1025 of 1704 🔗

They were asked by the organisers at the beginning of the rally to sit quietly if the police made trouble.

I watched a quite lot of the early footage. It was very quiet and peaceful. People chatting with the police, some women hugging a soldier in uniform who said he was on their side etc.

152049 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 6, #1026 of 1704 🔗

Latest NHS England hospital data, the reported total number of Covid 19 patients went up by just 7 from 1615 yesterday to 1622 today. OK it’s just one day and it is the weekend so we need to wait and see the longer trend, but hey its a snippet of good news and I needed some.

152053 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #1027 of 1704 🔗

I don’t yhink the hospital figures are hugely affected by weekend dips…but I might be wrong.

152270 ▶▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to OKUK, 1, #1028 of 1704 🔗

No, I don’t think they are. The biggest dips due to any reporting lag tend to occur on Mondays.

152532 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Steve Martindale, #1029 of 1704 🔗

Admissions were down, in England certainly

152051 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 25, #1030 of 1704 🔗

Mainstream media – free to form media scrums in the street and ignore social distancing.

XR – free to close down traffic and ignore social distancing.

BLM – free to attack the police, vandalise monuments and ignore social distancing.

Peaceful Lockdown Sceptics? Send in the riot squad to crack a few heads!

152066 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to OKUK, 8, #1031 of 1704 🔗

I am so appalled and sickened by these cowards acting as our police force.

152086 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bella Donna, 11, #1032 of 1704 🔗

They’re only a ‘force’ when dealing with scum-bag peaceful protesters and cafe owners who act humanely.

And they wonder why people like me hold them in such contempt.

152131 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to kh1485, 6, #1033 of 1704 🔗

Such brave men when carrying a batten and body armour. Utter cowards!

152129 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to OKUK, 4, #1034 of 1704 🔗

The police are traitors.

152148 ▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to JHuntz, 4, #1035 of 1704 🔗

Fucking cunts pity they aren’t good at frisking real perps

152202 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to OKUK, 2, #1036 of 1704 🔗

From what I could see, the crowd were exceptional in holding back and didn’t take the bate. Good on everyone there.

152370 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to PoshPanic, 1, #1037 of 1704 🔗

Though the guy in the cricket helmet was an obvious target!

152648 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to OKUK, 1, #1038 of 1704 🔗

Appalling and double standards in full flow.

153278 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bart Simpson, #1039 of 1704 🔗

Not for nothing does the nickname ‘the filth’ exist.

152054 Basics, replying to Basics, 13, #1040 of 1704 🔗

is it true every UK daily printed newspaper had the same NHS app front page today? Different colours of the same design to look complentary side by side on the newsagent shelf.

The UK press is not free.

152065 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Basics, 5, #1041 of 1704 🔗

I think the government has paid them off which is why there is no proper opposition.

152071 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #1042 of 1704 🔗

No doubt about it.

It is a statemrnt of their position if the front pages are co ordinated as a government advert.

Toby rightly says don’t quote in full – men and womens livelihoods depend on clicks. I fancy those men and wimen ought to be exceptionally worried for their futures with the papers display open hostility to free press ideals.

152081 ▶▶▶ R G, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #1043 of 1704 🔗

It was mentioned on one of the recent London Calling podcasts that the Government is buying ad space in national newspapers at book value, which is several times higher than the usual negotiated price. It’s not hard to see how this might translate into leverage.

152093 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Basics, 4, #1044 of 1704 🔗

Yes, that’s right.

152126 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to godowneasy, 3, #1045 of 1704 🔗

Thanks God’. If I working for a rag I would feel my future is entirely compromised by that sight.

Propaganda – with the goal of a surveillance state. Be ashamed independent thinking ladies and gentlemen of the press.

152593 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to godowneasy, 1, #1046 of 1704 🔗

The whole point of our “newspapers” is so that all the main propaganda point of the day are displayed in every garage, shop, and supermarket everywhere on a daily basis. In a special display box.

Brainwashing you multiple times a day.

152132 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Basics, #1047 of 1704 🔗

not the FT.

152133 ▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to DressageRider, #1048 of 1704 🔗

Nor the Morning Star (not that I bought that one).

152059 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 3, #1049 of 1704 🔗

This is a curve you never see in presentations UK New Covid-19 cases per 1000 tested(Updated 23 rd Sept).This is the one to see whether we have an exponential increase.

152197 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to swedenborg, #1050 of 1704 🔗

I’ll be whipping this one out later!

152253 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to swedenborg, #1051 of 1704 🔗

Brilliant, thanks!

152063 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 5, #1052 of 1704 🔗

Having just been on the Sun website. The majority who comment on there are absolute morons. Sorry Toby there is no hope we are doomed.

152073 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #1053 of 1704 🔗

You have to be alreadyon the ‘moron spectrum’ to regularly read the Sun. Don’t despair.

152123 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to RickH, #1054 of 1704 🔗

It was via a link about today’s rally. Its unbelievable how dumb their readers are.

152217 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Bella Donna, #1055 of 1704 🔗

Maybe the rallies are counterproductive. Not knocking people for standing up and protesting, but they seem easy to portray as the lunatic fringe. Don’t know what the answer is.

152248 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, 1, #1056 of 1704 🔗

The answer is for the non-lunatic sceptics to go to the protests and make their voices heard.

152625 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Cheezilla, #1057 of 1704 🔗

It really doesn’t matter at all. No matter who is there the media will portray them as nutcases. There’s no point in trying to pander to the mass media. We have to find some other way to get our message heard.

152077 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #1058 of 1704 🔗

The newspapers have a host of methods for ensuring sensible posts don’t get through. I saw this with Mail Online – used to be very free for comment but increasingly, after it was taken over by globalist interests, it deployed a suite of measures to ensure that pro-globalists got the lions share of comments.

152114 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to OKUK, #1059 of 1704 🔗

I notice when the bots fill the up reply spaces so people don’t bother to post.

152128 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1060 of 1704 🔗

Yep…there are lots of tricks they use….awaiting moderation is the most obvious,

152090 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #1061 of 1704 🔗

If you’re on Facebook check out our local Facebook group “This is Swad”. I think the remainiacs actually may have had a point about low information voters.

152127 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 1, #1062 of 1704 🔗

I gave up FB a few years back.

152267 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #1063 of 1704 🔗

I took a look at the article about the rally, sorted by “highest rated” and the overwhelming number of comments were supportive of the protest and its aims, and against lockdown. Of course there were posts from sheep but they were definitely the minority and had attracted a high number of down-votes. Don’t lose heart.

152067 AngloWelshDragon, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 15, #1064 of 1704 🔗

How are other non mask wearers finding shopping these days? I’ve been absolutely fine shopping in Sainsbury’s with my exemption badge but since Thursday the atmosphere has changed. Queues are back thanks to the panic buyers and the hostility is palpable. The “greeter” on the door demanding to know if I was exempt was a development. I’m glad I have secured an Ocado regular delivery slot starting in 3 weeks so I don’t need to darken their doorstep again. Wonder if they will miss the £130 I spend their every week? I hope so.

152076 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 9, #1065 of 1704 🔗

It’s very tense in there, even amongst mask wearers. Shopping is now an even more stressful experience than it already was. People snapping at each other left, right and centre.

152113 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #1066 of 1704 🔗

We order online click and collect, so far it’s been brilliant and we don’t have to mix with the masked idiots.

152078 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 9, #1067 of 1704 🔗

About the same here in Essex. We wonder if the supermarkets are missing the ‘browse’ and ‘impulse’ purchases you make when you actually shop? Click and collect means you buy what you need – that’s it. In our case this could mean a reduction to our bill of £10 to £20 per week.

152115 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Bugle, 4, #1068 of 1704 🔗

Yes but as long as people aren’t going to restaurants, pubs or on holidays abroad they are doing well. Supermarket share prices shot up on the latest PM announcement. Also if people don’t shop around so much, that means they keep prices high because there is effectively less competition.

152169 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to OKUK, 1, #1069 of 1704 🔗

One thing I noticed yesterday at Morrisons, despite all the biosecurity being back in place, and some shelves clearly having been picked bare.

Special offers, BOGOFs are still being offered. In March all offers went as soon as biosecurity was introduced.

152159 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Bugle, 7, #1070 of 1704 🔗

Could not agree more. Shopping consists of going straight to the items you need and out of store ASAP.

No browsing or casual shopping.

152103 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 2, #1071 of 1704 🔗

Yep it’s getting worse. Though I’m exempt I am increasingly deploying the chinstrap method. Look like you’re about to put it over your mouth as you pass security and then don’t. Seems to me the key thing is not to surrender to the mouth and nose covering, the actual muzzling.

152105 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 2, #1072 of 1704 🔗

Aldi seems fine – but I shop in the evenings when it’s quiet anyway, as I can’t stand in long queues.

Asking if you’re exempt might be illegal. To me it suggests discrimination.

152168 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #1073 of 1704 🔗

It does. Unfortunately, this would need a rock-solid actual justification for exemption for there to be any chance of it being tested in court. I have the impression that most of us here claim exemption by taking the “distress” route or by stretching a point with asthma or something similar (or just by assuming that nobody will challenge us) but wouldn’t be able to back up an argument that we were genuinely unable to wear a mask for whatever reason. This means that we can pan (and should) wave the Equality Act in people’s faces, but we wouldn’t have a hope in hell of actually winning a disabilities discrimination case.

If somebody here who does suffer a genuine debilitating reaction from wearing a mask is prepared to push it as far as a discrimination claim, I would certainly be prepared to contribute to the legal fees.

153081 ▶▶▶▶ Sceptic down South, replying to matt, #1074 of 1704 🔗

“but wouldn’t be able to back up an argument that we were genuinely unable to wear a mask for whatever reason”

It’s late in the day now to post on yesterday’s thread, but the severe distress exemption is clearly psychological/mental (rather than physical) and – crucially – according to Government guidance must be self-assessed. I’m struggling to see how that could even be brought to Court, never mind how it doesn’t stand up in Court.

If you self-assess that even the thought of wearing an instrument of subjugation causes you severe distress, then ergo…

152661 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #1075 of 1704 🔗

I’ve mastered the art of speed shopping – in and out in 20 minutes maximum.

153267 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bart Simpson, #1076 of 1704 🔗

I take my time – fuck ’em.

152068 Basics, replying to Basics, 7, #1077 of 1704 🔗

A Professor at Edinburgh University home of the awfully alien Devi has written what appears to be a direct response to devis work last week of claiming herd immunity is bad.

Professor Raj Bhopal, Professor of Public Health at Edinburgh University writes A vaccine will not be a Covid19 silver bullet. It is a well-judged and eminently sane piece on the vital question of vaccine V “population immunity” says Liam Halligan


It is good to see another of devis universtiy ‘correcting the record’ after devis coldly calculated work dismissing human accepted practices of community immunity.

152094 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 3, #1078 of 1704 🔗

Good one!

Devi Sridhar is as dangerous as she is odious.

152143 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Basics, 2, #1079 of 1704 🔗

Immunity is good and exists in various forms.
Herd immunity is just a theoretical computer model concept invented by epidimiologists on behalf of the vaccine industry, to justify vaccinating more people, namely those not at risk or only at low risk of a certain disease.
It is not based upon any medical evidence, see Profs Gatti, Montinari and RKjrs CHD.

152243 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jay Berger, #1080 of 1704 🔗

All comes back to T-cell memory then?

152176 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Basics, 3, #1081 of 1704 🔗

In a time of great idiocy, she really is a standout.

152347 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to PoshPanic, #1082 of 1704 🔗

Quote of the week!

152182 ▶▶ matt, replying to Basics, 3, #1083 of 1704 🔗

Academics within a single institution disagree all the time. I remember an old supervisor of mine, in a lecture talking about a colleague’s theory and then saying dismissively “but that’s the kind of thinking that gets you made professor in this university.”

This is good, but I wouldn’t think it’s more than a minor slap down for Devi.

152201 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to matt, 2, #1084 of 1704 🔗

In this case though, you have two Professors, one a scientist (Woolhouse) and the other a doctor (Bhopal), in an open challenge to someone who is neither a scientist nor a medic.

152275 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1085 of 1704 🔗

Good point.

152187 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Basics, 2, #1086 of 1704 🔗

Questions for Devi. Does she still attest to the existence of ‘long covid’? If yes, is she campaigning against the challenge studies about to start in London where live virus will be given to participants in a vaccine trial? If no, why not?

152585 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1087 of 1704 🔗

TT. Do you have a link on the deliberate challenge with virus?

152074 Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #1088 of 1704 🔗

FACE COVERINGS: An open letter to Chief Medical Officer Chris Whitty

From me,
, a UK citizen (England).

See the letter here:

152087 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 1, #1089 of 1704 🔗


152125 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Basics, 3, #1090 of 1704 🔗

Very good.
Please also note the contents of my earlier comment in that regard:
a top neurologist warning against mask use, as they lead to unnoticed oxygen deprivation and brain damage, especially for children.
And LH’s decision to ban FFP2/N95 masks on board basically confirms that and masks huge dangerousness in that regard!
The Nuremberg code is definetely an angle to argue with and pursue.
A Nuremberg trial should and will follow anyway…

152171 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Jay Berger, 4, #1091 of 1704 🔗

Early on, I was calling masks side breathers and pointed out to people that in a lot of cases, if you sit next to someone, they will end up breathing on you, when otherwise they wouldn’t. I’d love to bet that masks are increasing infections of all kinds on aircraft.

152238 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to PoshPanic, #1092 of 1704 🔗

And flying is a good way to pick up respiratory infections in the first place!

152075 Old Bill, replying to Old Bill, 3, #1093 of 1704 🔗

Coincidentally with the headline topic of Toby’s piece today, I have just learnt that I have contracted a rare and incurable condition going under the name of DHES.

There is no vaccine or any other treatment available except for palliative ones, so I am going to have to live with this affliction until my end comes.

As I realise many of you will not have heard of this condition I have included a link that will help you understand it. If you are of a squeamish disposition, you may not want to follow it.

comment image

152085 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Old Bill, 7, #1094 of 1704 🔗

If it saves just one life, we should all shave off our eyebrows right now…of course this will not apply to Prof Ferguson who will need to retain his eyebrows for signalling to totty across crowded cocktail parties at International Covid Conferences in Geneva, Rio, Bali, Barbados, and other such locales.

152107 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to OKUK, 4, #1095 of 1704 🔗

Eyebrow masks would be sensible until the full research is in.

152116 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Basics, 3, #1096 of 1704 🔗

Thanks Basics. Cheezilla just suggested I take a deep breath after my customer kerfuffle above and this has just provided the laugh I needed (I love the humour on this site, it’s a life-saver).

152137 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Basics, 3, #1097 of 1704 🔗

China is also ready to sell us 100 million eyebrow testing kits at £250 per test.

152119 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Old Bill, 2, #1098 of 1704 🔗

There’s going to be stockpiling of tweezers.

152147 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Old Bill, 1, #1099 of 1704 🔗

I only read the beginning of your post and began to look up DHES!.

152312 ▶▶▶ Old Bill, replying to Londo Mollari, #1100 of 1704 🔗

Thank you for your concern Londo. I am sometimes serious but sometimes a bit of a practical joker – this was one of those times. The post didn’t really work as I wanted it to because the picture was supposed to be a link you clicked on – that would have had a more dramatic impact, but instead of that it turned up on the page. No idea why, that sometimes happens when you have spent the first 40 years of your life without computer, internet,phone or fascist governments.

152345 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Old Bill, #1101 of 1704 🔗

Ironically, when I want to post a picture, it often refuses to appear!

152389 ▶▶▶▶▶ Old Bill, replying to Cheezilla, #1102 of 1704 🔗

Hmm, so you can’t get the picture to appear and I can’t stop it. Maybe we should get together and compare techniques, we might be able to come up with a solution that fits both of us.

Socially distanced of course, our router cables mustn’t come within 2m of each other for more than 15 minutes – we want to ‘stay safe’ don’t we,

152193 ▶▶ matt, replying to Old Bill, 3, #1103 of 1704 🔗

Don’t worry. As a fellow sufferer, I’m assured that I almost certainly won’t die of DHES, but I’m sure to die with it.

Also, it gives me something to do on boring conference calls

152079 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 82, #1104 of 1704 🔗

Crap day because two of my staff have decided to wear masks. Loads more customers wearing them and I just feel like I am in the Land of the Living Dead, surrounded by people who are willing refugees from their own liberty.

Rounded off the day with an argument with a holier-than-thou customer who felt our LS leaflets were not appropriate – “so, you think this is a hoax do you?”. We explained that, no, we didn’t think it was a hoax, but a hugely disprorportionate reaction to a virus just a bit worse than flu – “well, maybe you can explain that to the families of people whose funerals I have been a minister at” Turns out he has been a minister at the funerals of four COVID victims. He then sneered at the fact that we were only concerned about our own commercial interest (yeah, and what’s wrong with that, I wondered).

Anyway, long story short, his sneering contempt for our leaflets and our stance, pressed the wrong buttons and I let him have it. It’s taken a while, but I won’t be lectured to in my own shop about my livelihood being acceptable collateral damage to save an institution that has had such a devastating impact on my life.

152084 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kh1485, 11, #1105 of 1704 🔗

Good for you KH but take some deep breaths now!

I wonder if those were the only funerals he’s done this year?

152089 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to kh1485, 6, #1106 of 1704 🔗

Are these leaflets available anywhere? I’d like to put them/posters up at my uni campus.

152096 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to nocheesegromit, 6, #1107 of 1704 🔗

They were supplied by a friend. I will check if she is happy for me to provide a link (can’t think why she wouldn’t be) and report back. kh

152099 ▶▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to kh1485, 2, #1108 of 1704 🔗

Brilliant, thank you!

152290 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to nocheesegromit, 1, #1109 of 1704 🔗

nocheesegromit – link provided further up/down thread. kh

152097 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to kh1485, 11, #1110 of 1704 🔗

4!!! wowsers, he has been busy, what about cancer, suicide, heart attacks, stokes, annerism

152177 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to stefarm, 5, #1111 of 1704 🔗

Road accidents, drug overdoses, old age, boredom,

152212 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to stefarm, 4, #1112 of 1704 🔗

Given that funerals are basically at least 50% of his actual job 4 doesn’t sound like very many.

Maybe I should become a vicar, it sounds like a pretty cushy gig.

152101 ▶▶ Basics, replying to kh1485, 13, #1113 of 1704 🔗

Yes. Before getting to your final paragraph his myopic position had already raised an alarm bell with me. What about all those other funerals caused by lockdown – does he boycott those as not important because not involving covid.

Only virtue signalling wankers uses anothers funeral to egotistically argue for conversational victory.

Are ministers NLPed or members of cp?

153640 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Basics, #1114 of 1704 🔗

Well done, Basics. Can always reckon on having a sensible reply from you. The people on here are keeping me sane!

152102 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to kh1485, 12, #1115 of 1704 🔗

Well he only said he’d done four funerals, he might have lied. The death certificates might have mentioned CV, but the actual cause of death could have been cancer or whatever.
What a shite world we are having to live in, you have my heartfelt sympathies.

152111 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to kh1485, 10, #1116 of 1704 🔗

The problem with arguing with this lot is their idiots.
As Mark twain says they “reduce you to their level and beat you with experience.”

152122 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to kh1485, 8, #1117 of 1704 🔗

Sorry to hear that your staff have succumb to the MSM narrative.

As for the minister he should realise that it is your business, up to you what literature you allow to be displayed.

Stay strong.

152179 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Dave #KBF, 12, #1118 of 1704 🔗

Thanks. Yes, I felt very deflated when I saw them. Young women hiding their faces (they’ve been unmasked since they returned to work in early July). They looked awful, I’m afraid to say and it made for a pretty depressing atmosphere.

When the third one came in, I said “please not you as well” and she said that she thought she had to, so I told her not if it causes you anxiety. She smiled and said, “well, I forgot it anyway”. 🙂

152141 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to kh1485, 13, #1119 of 1704 🔗

And how many funerals of flu victims does the minister normally attend? I have thought for months that the way this delusion strikes people is downright creepy. Almost 100 per cent of politicians at whatever level, church leaders, and those who tend to think they are cleverer than others. the lower down the income and educational scale you go, the more likely you are to find people who can see through it. This strikes me as a fulfilment of Biblical prophecy (2 Thessalonians, ch 2), which no doubt you will think the craziest conspiracy theory of all. Church minsters are the ones most likely to get angry at this observation of mine. Anyway, I’m glad you let him have it.

152194 ▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 7, #1120 of 1704 🔗

Sorry to hear about your crap day Kh,Are your members of staff wearing muzzles because they are suddenly fearful of catching something or are they of the ‘we don’t want to be told off by nanny state’ persuasion ?.As for the minister,what a c**t !,what bloody brass neck to talk to you like that in your own shop !,he’s just another one of those with a completely secure job and income lecturing others that are under financial threat every day that it is about saving lives not money or jobs,what a prick !.
It’s amazing that every covid zealot that argues with us has some connection to a covid death yet no sceptic or even someone sitting on the fence I know of knows anyone who’s even had covid let alone died from it,no matter how far down the chain you go.People like him are so entrenched in their own one-sided beliefs that they resort to lying to protect their position because it is much easier that finding the strength to admit there is another side to everything.Covid is the omnipotent religion (or maybe cult) to a huge amount of people now.
Sorry,if that sounds pretentious,it sounded better in my head !,anyway,Viva the Popular Peoples Resistance Front of North West Essex !.
Don’t let the buggers get you down Kh,we will have our day.(hopefully anyway !).

152263 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 8, #1121 of 1704 🔗

Thanks Paul. I think they are concerned about customers having a go and potentially being snitched on (I did offer them reassurance that we would deal with any argy-bargy but they were insistent). I really hate it because it looks like we approve of them wearing the damn things when we most certainly don’t. It’ can’t be because they are concerned about the virus because they have been mask-free since they returned at the beginning of July. Although one of them does seem to have bought into the hysteria (“I don’t want my grandparents or my cousin’s baby to get this”).

I’m afraid I saw red when this bloke started going on. I mean, if he didn’t agree, why couldn’ he just decide not to come back, not provoke a bloody argument (“oh, I didn’t mean to offend or upset you” so I told him he had!).

Thanks, as ever, everyone for your kind words. I think this is going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better. But I won’t be cowed by these (s’cuse language) arse-wipes. Yes, up the Popular Peoples’ Resistance Front of North West Essex!

152289 ▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 3, #1122 of 1704 🔗

Yes and up the zealots too (in a different way !) because they don’t like it up them !.

152430 ▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Paul, 5, #1123 of 1704 🔗

I was brought up as a Catholic to have great respect and admiration for men and women of the cloth. Then early in my career I had a case in court in which we called a minster to give evidence on the issue in question, and he took the oath on the New Testament. It was soon apparent to everyone in court (except the judge) that he was lying his head off.

Bit of a “scales falling from the eyes” moment for me.

152679 ▶▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to Paul, #1124 of 1704 🔗

I know 2 people who’ve had it. A friend who is also obese with diabetes, arthritis ad heart disease tested positive in hospital . A friend’s sister in law was pretty ill with it ad we’ve prayed at church for a couple of people with it I don’t know. A nurse friend in the USA nursed victims ad said it was horrendous. I still don’t think it justifies closing down society ad taking away our freedoms. It seems 1968 flu did as much damage taking into account population size and we carried out ad it burned out.

152224 ▶▶ FiFiTrixabelle, replying to kh1485, 14, #1125 of 1704 🔗

kh…you have been and continue to be absolutely fabulous through all of this. I doubt I would have your fortitude, but you are an inspiration to many of us on this site. Don’t let the b*****s get you down. I’m going to make a pilgrimage from Scotland to your wonderful cafe at some point in the future and give you an enormous hug and buy all your cakes!!

152298 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, 7, #1126 of 1704 🔗

That’s really lovely – thank you. Just doing what I believe to be right. It’s got me into trouble in the past and I suspect it will again but I can’t just ignore what is happening.

152255 ▶▶ Alan P, replying to kh1485, 6, #1127 of 1704 🔗

Should’ve asked the twat how many corpses he’ll officiate over from the lockdowns and other measures this government is imposing on us. People like that are getting too me know. Next one will definitely be getting an aggressive response.

152293 ▶▶ Hopeful, replying to kh1485, 14, #1128 of 1704 🔗

My son went to the gym today. The guys were chatting – great experience- and in the course of conversation the gym owner said he’s now lost five customers not through covid, through suicide. All young guys who couldn’t take any more being locked up at home feeling lonely, alone and isolated. None of the group knows of one person dead from covid let alone five. This government and the deep state controlling them is a cesspit. The only reason these MPs and officials wear masks is to cover the miasma they emit.

152338 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Hopeful, 2, #1129 of 1704 🔗

That’s terrible! Evil is undeniably afoot.

152350 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Hopeful, 3, #1130 of 1704 🔗

That’s horrible. What an absolute tragic, needless waste of life. I do wonder if these MPs have any conscience at all. A friend got a response from our MP (she’s ignored my e-mail) and the sanctimony dripping from it incensed me.

152683 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Hopeful, 1, #1131 of 1704 🔗

Very sad to hear the suicides.

I’m hearing more and more of this. A colleague knows someone who has died of cancer but as she says to this day she doesn’t know of anyone who has had Covid much less died of it.

152361 ▶▶ Biggles, replying to kh1485, 3, #1132 of 1704 🔗

Stay strong kh, having read your previous posts I’m sure you will.

It’s a shame your coffee shop is so far away (I’m in the north east), I could do with a nice cappuccino and a good moan!

152493 ▶▶ James007, replying to kh1485, 5, #1133 of 1704 🔗

I spend a lot of time in coffee shops on job applications, writing and generally trying to get things done. I would love to visit yours. I expect it is too far, as I’m in Surrey.

I’ve been touring round local coffee shops on my bike. Surprisingly McDonald’s has been the most friendly place! The more upmarket ones have rules, such as masks on, except if you are sitting down. I’ve been told off at one for some aberrations, like not following the one-way system.

I have heard the “hoax” accusation a lot. The LS argument is very reasonable, but it is unfamiliar to many. Some are so afraid of Covid, they are shocked by it. I think in Christian circles, as I said in the forum, supporting the government’s policies has been associated with caring about the vulnerable. If you disagree with the government, you therefore don’t care!

152677 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, #1134 of 1704 🔗

We will win this war KH!!! It will take time but we will.

152098 Gtec, replying to Gtec, 25, #1135 of 1704 🔗

I’ve just been to my local bakers to pick up my weekly order and, as I expected, the young shop assistants were wearing masks, which I wasn’t. We exchanged a few words, but it wasn’t quite the normal banter with a smile or two exchanged.

I wasn’t unfortunately surprised. What did surprise me though as I passed the other small shops on the way was how there were now suddenly all these QR posters in the windows, with some telling you to scan before entry to buy a birthday card, or even double glazing!

I guess that the next stage once a critical mass of downloads for the T&T (surveillance) app has occurred, will be to make it compulsory to scan these codes before you enter. No entry without a smartphone.

I am now finding all of this more and more sinister, and am coming to believe I am living in an Orwellian police state. It is certainly beginning to not only look, but feel that way.

At the start of all this I was just bewildered and couldn’t quite believe that Covid was really that serious for the majority.

Whilst unhappy at the lockdown, it was at least tolerable, and I gave the government the benefit of the doubt about their strategy.

But as time has gone on, and more and more nonsensical but nonetheless draconian measures have been forced upon us, I can’t help feeling that there is more afoot than anyone is saying?

I have never up until now ever believed in any ‘conspiracy’ theory, unless you include the Gunpowder Plot, but then it’s not exactly a secret!

The lockdown of all of civil society, the restrictions on personal freedom and movement, the semi-imprisonment of students and the elderly in care homes, the rolling out of a supposed track and trace app for an illness that now barely registers as a main cause of death, is beginning to make me think that if it looks and feels like a police state, then it is a police state.

But why, and what happens next? And how can we fight back in any meaningful way?

Suggestions on a postcard . . .

152104 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Gtec, 9, #1136 of 1704 🔗

Oh it’s here alright. I’m not taking my phone anywhere.

152117 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Gtec, 11, #1137 of 1704 🔗

The biggest conspiracy is the one that says that there are no conspiracies. You are a late arrival, but much better late than never.

152121 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Gtec, 5, #1138 of 1704 🔗

Shop workers only need to wear a nappy if they are going to come into ‘close contact’ with the publi.

That’s within 2m for 15 mins, or 1m at any time, face to face talking etc., Plastic screen is a barrier

152130 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Gtec, 6, #1139 of 1704 🔗

Exactly a predicted months ago in youtube video by someone who had passed her track and trace training and they had been told this was where it was all leading.

India been doing it for a while, compulsory for government employees.

152188 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Gtec, 1, #1140 of 1704 🔗

Lots of answers here: https://www.ukcolumn.org/

152415 ▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Gtec, 1, #1141 of 1704 🔗

How many shop staff other workers are happy wearing face panties for eight hours a day? How soon before they start to get side effects, and push back?

What happens when it becomes apparent that there is no second wave? Won’t more people wake up? Perhaps I am being naive but you can’t hide the truth for ever.

152576 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Gtec, 2, #1142 of 1704 🔗

GTEC, what is going on is very dark, sinister and utterly evil.

It has very little to do with the dangerousness of “IT”.

The Virus.

The Virus has been used to transform society into a new normal. That is the total destruction of everything we once knew. A total re-set of everything.

The global reset. Agenda 2030. Carbon zero. Global Communitarianism.

It’s happening. Right now.

It’s not a conspiracy theory. The world economic forum has more stuff than you can poke a stick at to read. So does the UN. It’s not conspiracy theory.

It;s just that it’s boring, hard to read, everybody thinks it all just irrelevant new age corporate bollocks. People are too lazy to read it and they won’t anyway because its all “conspiracy theory stuff”.

Sorry to say. It’s quite scary too.

152100 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 6, #1143 of 1704 🔗

Today’s quote.

Liberalism is totalitarianism with a human face.


152388 ▶▶ Christopher, replying to Bella Donna, #1144 of 1704 🔗

To Quote Jonathan Bowden
” Liberalism is Moral Syphilis ” .

152108 nocheesegromit, replying to nocheesegromit, 6, #1145 of 1704 🔗

Have just seen on the Facebook UsforThem group that Debenhams’ child mannequins are all wearing masks now.

152185 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to nocheesegromit, 7, #1146 of 1704 🔗


152550 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to nocheesegromit, 1, #1147 of 1704 🔗

Holy fuck

152110 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 2, #1148 of 1704 🔗

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-another-6-042-covid-19-cases-confirmed-in-uk-12082422 first drop after five straight days of rises”
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8775833/UK-coronavirus-cases-hit-highest-level-Saturday-6-042-new-infections-20-deaths.html “UK coronavirus cases hit their highest ever level for a Saturday with 6,042 new infections”Compare and contrast!

152183 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to arfurmo, 1, #1149 of 1704 🔗

If there were 100,000 new daily cases in April and May, we must surely have herd immunity, as Dolores Cahill says.

152204 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #1150 of 1704 🔗

If you run a SIR model based on initial exponential growth of 1.33x per day (which was about what it was doing in places that had testing early) you max out at about 700,000 infections a day at the peak and it only takes a few weeks to get there. All this happened in March before the lockdown. I don’t know if the exact number in reality is 100k or 700k but it’s a lot and the growth is far more than anything we’re seeing now. The “second wave” is nothing like the first.

The whole idea that you’d ever do anything that went on for months and months, years even, like this is totally absurd given the dynamics of the epidemic. It takes no more than a few weeks to do its thing and some sort of state of emergency might be justified for that period of time.

152118 Sara, replying to Sara, 40, #1151 of 1704 🔗

Trafalgar Square fabulous today. I couldn’t hear very well but there was a lovely atmosphere. We marched up Regent Street and Oxford Street afterwards. The road was filled end to end with us.

152174 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sara, 14, #1152 of 1704 🔗

Thanks for going on behalf of many who couldn’t be there.

152552 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Sara, 1, #1153 of 1704 🔗

Hopefully we will get exponential weekly growth in turnout.

152124 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 3, #1154 of 1704 🔗

Really depressed. Headline on BBC Scotland website is “Pandemic Accelerating in Scotland”, says Jason Leitch. 11% of tests are positive. Please, I need cheered up. Are we entering a full-blown second wave?

152135 ▶▶ dpj, replying to Gillian, 5, #1155 of 1704 🔗

As I said when I posted weekly stats for Scotland earlier over 3k ‘positive’ tests in previous 7 days has led to number in hospital supposedly with covid to rise by less than 50 so vast majority still continuing to be totally fine with presumably zero or mild symptoms.

152139 ▶▶▶ dpj, replying to dpj, 2, #1156 of 1704 🔗

Also the 50 or so additional admissions just means they tested positive in last 28 days so could be very few that actually tested positive this week among them and as we all keep pointing out they could be in hospital for any one of many other reasons.

152140 ▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to dpj, 4, #1157 of 1704 🔗

Thanks dpj. Why is language like “accelerating pandemic” allowed to be used? My mental health can’t take much more of this.

152149 ▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Gillian, 1, #1158 of 1704 🔗

Its the usual good news is no news, but yes they are taking it to the extremes now, but its not reflected in hospital intake. Its almost like the media can’t help themselves now, addicted since Brexit to the madness.

152153 ▶▶▶▶ dpj, replying to Gillian, 3, #1159 of 1704 🔗

I think it’s just a continuation of the strategy government was advised to use early on to scare people in to complying with rules but in my opinion has gone far too far.

152164 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to dpj, 4, #1160 of 1704 🔗

They’ve overplayed their hand and people are seeing through the deception.

152161 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Gillian, 11, #1161 of 1704 🔗

Your mental health will improve greatly if you avoid the BBC like the plague that it truly is.

152245 ▶▶▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1162 of 1704 🔗

Very true. I need to stop it.

152539 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1163 of 1704 🔗


152157 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Gillian, 2, #1164 of 1704 🔗

Only of a casedemic!

152587 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Cheezilla, #1165 of 1704 🔗


152165 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Gillian, 2, #1166 of 1704 🔗

It’s all the students – carried out prior to incarceration.

152167 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Gillian, 3, #1167 of 1704 🔗

No. The man is a dentist and I wouldn’t trust him to give me a filling.

Don’t worry. It’s a good thing, more bollocks = less news to report

152184 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Gillian, 2, #1168 of 1704 🔗

100% of the 11% are false positive

152241 ▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to stefarm, #1169 of 1704 🔗

Somebody on here earlier today said we have to dump the false positive argument. Plus the Swedish top guy seems to have turned. All totally depressing.

152252 ▶▶▶▶ dpj, replying to Gillian, 5, #1170 of 1704 🔗

Anders Tegnell has been getting quoted out of context. Simon Dolan is in Sweden and has met him and was told rather different from what MSM claims. Lots of people eg Carl Heneghan still sticking with false positive claims also.

152398 ▶▶▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to dpj, 1, #1171 of 1704 🔗

I think going down the false positive route – though perfectly valid – diverts attention from the only data that matters – hospitalisations and deaths. Those are the stats we sceptics should be hammering home.

152442 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to charleyfarley, 2, #1172 of 1704 🔗

Belgium are adopting the hospitalisations and deaths statistics to drive their response. I think the reason that false positives are continued to be pushed is because of positive test results being referred as cases.

152492 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to p02099003, 2, #1173 of 1704 🔗

I heard that Belgium are dropping the whole FPR thing because of “unreliability”, meaning they know the false positives make the whole thing laughably incompetent.

152511 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Nessimmersion, #1174 of 1704 🔗

Cases were rising sharply ( now levelling) but hospital figures remain flat.

152489 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Gillian, #1175 of 1704 🔗

I think that was attempted disruption. I queried it with him but got no reply.
Noticed the same with a nuttern on Conservative Woman, same tactics of trying to sow doubt with technical gobbledegoop.

It may be a case of the flak is heaviest when you are over the target.
The boosters are trying to sow doubt as they can see their religious belief being subjected to full daylight.

152694 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Gillian, #1176 of 1704 🔗

Isn’t it so very interesting that one week on from raab, Hancock and shapps all looking like twats over their non understanding of false positives that out of the mysterious mists came a perception the false positives tests argument is erroneous.

Surely that is a curiousity suitable for a saturday night!

152200 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Gillian, 3, #1178 of 1704 🔗

Depends what you mean by second wave. If lockdowns work, which they possibly do a bit, then as they are eased, you may get more positive tests. We’ve seen this in other countries, but it’s not really been accompanied by a corresponding increase in severe cases or deaths.

152514 ▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Julian, #1179 of 1704 🔗

If you locked down really early then the second wave would often be bigger as the sombrero got over flattened. Some countries in East Europe, such as Serbia or Slovakia have been like that. Also Argentina.

152406 ▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to Gillian, 2, #1180 of 1704 🔗

Yesterday Toby passed on an interesting tip re: invitations to tender for the decommissioning of the field hospital at the NEC in Glasgow. The contract start date is 2nd October, so presumably someone knows that the additional hospital capacity won’t be required. Which begs the question, ‘What second wave?’.

152519 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Gillian, 1, #1181 of 1704 🔗

Today’s Uk total was just over 6000 cases from 245000 tests processed. Which I make 2.2%. The 11% is obtained by comparing positive tests against individuals being tested for the first time. Misleading.

152710 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Gillian, #1182 of 1704 🔗

As usual Rosa Krankies sockpuppet dentist is fibbing.
Proper and full explanations given here, which also blows away the attempted disruption of the boosters trying to distract with FPR not proven etc.

152144 Seansaighdeoir, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 24, #1183 of 1704 🔗

Just in from the London protest which ended unfortunately with the TSG steaming in on women and protesters behaving peacefully. The aim was to confiscate the sound system apparently.

An unpleasant end to a positive day. First hand view of thugs in uniform behaving with scant regard for peoples safety aggressively pushing women out of the way trying to grab people guilty of sitting on the floor listening. There was a real intimidating atmosphere at the end for a while. There was absolutely no need for their aggressive behaviour and I saw a women trying to remonstrate being violent shoved. The rest of the day went off quite well apart from the appalling sound system. This is the 3rd event there now and it is beyond frustrating that they haven’t managed to sort that yet.

David Icke now also appears to have top billing which is another questionable step imho. There appeared some interesting speakers but you couldnt make enough of it to be worthwhile. Annoying to travel all that way only to have to come home on youtube to find out what was said. Heres hoping it gets much better for next time.

Met some interesting people and people seem to be pretty switched on at these events so its always interesting listening to others views. Thanks to everyone who attended.

However entering Charing Cross this evening there were 6 or 7 police literally standing on the entrance deliberately intimidating people entering without a mask. They didnt say anything and I was ready for that but I can’t see how this will end well in the pleasant climate. Definitely feel of the Spanish police about them these days …

152154 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 4, #1184 of 1704 🔗

Thans for your report. I watched a fair bit of the live broadcasts earlier and the crowd were very peaceful, just wanting to listen to the speakers.

152162 ▶▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1185 of 1704 🔗

It was so difficult to hear you really couldn’t do anything else.

152170 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 8, #1186 of 1704 🔗

Well thanks for going. You’ll have represented a huge number of people who, like me, were unable to go.

152160 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 7, #1187 of 1704 🔗

Spanish police today, Chinese police tomorrow

152205 ▶▶ Ryan, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 12, #1188 of 1704 🔗

Went toe to toe with bastards and enjoyed every minute of it.

152216 ▶▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to Ryan, 2, #1189 of 1704 🔗

Good man. They appeared to be looking for confrontation and I hung around to see what was going to happen. I was directly in line of the charge but they went right past heading for the stage. I thought they were after the speakers…

152240 ▶▶▶▶ Ryan, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 5, #1190 of 1704 🔗

People on the stairs at the front of the NG were calling and waving for volunteers to stand up to them. Even at 50 years old I can look myself. I pulled a ski mask over my head and got stuck in.

152280 ▶▶▶▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to Ryan, #1191 of 1704 🔗

Lol. I could see there was a commotion over there but at that point couldn’t see any police. I was thinking maybe they were plain clothes agitators or something. I went over to have a look and people started to panic because the TSG thugs arrived. I thought they were going for the stage for Icke or the speakers.

152310 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Seansaighdeoir, #1192 of 1704 🔗

I understood they’d arrested Icke and caused a disturbance to prevent the German doctor from speaking.

152334 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to Cheezilla, #1193 of 1704 🔗

Yeah that was my impression. As Ryan says there was a commotion in front of the NSG that seemed the catalyst for things but it was difficult to see what was really going on from where I was. The TSG then steamed over to the stage and this was right after Icke and just as the doc got the microphone.

152292 ▶▶ Adamb, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 2, #1194 of 1704 🔗

I enjoyed it overall, not keen on the majority of speakers (what I could hear anyway) but the overall sentiment was good, and great to be in a large crowd of unmasked people. Police intervention at the end was pretty sinister.

152610 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 1, #1195 of 1704 🔗

Yes, the sound system was not working great. Also, I was sitting on the plinth with the lions and the guy playing the bongos didn’t help with trying to hear what was being said!

152807 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Chicot, #1196 of 1704 🔗

Yep, bongo man was a nuisance. Sheldon Cooper wannabee.

152686 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Seansaighdeoir, #1197 of 1704 🔗

Thanks for report Ryan, good to get a better picture of how it was.

As I have already added the days looks liike a real success for all its flaws and c*ntish thugs. Wouldnt everyone love to see them stripped of their armour, radio and weapons. Just souless scum then.

152146 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1198 of 1704 🔗

Don’t think I’ll be able to post the image but here goes:

comment image ?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=sraMWJaRRDUAX9_Hh1D&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr8-1.xx&tp=6&oh=bc82f93bf70b5f55ef1f6181fcd41ff0&oe=5F965085

It’s “covid safe” unstructions from the London Taproom.
One of them says:
No handhaking, high fiving or extended eye contact with anyone not on your table.


152209 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Cheezilla, #1199 of 1704 🔗

If you’re logging in..download the image to your device and then upload using the image icon. That’s normally the better route.

152213 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to PoshPanic, 1, #1200 of 1704 🔗

Logged in to the site, is what I mean.

152304 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to PoshPanic, #1201 of 1704 🔗

I knew that’s what you meant. 🙂

152303 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to PoshPanic, #1202 of 1704 🔗

Thanks. I thought I was logged into the site but I’ll check ……

152151 mjr, replying to mjr, 7, #1203 of 1704 🔗

This afternoon i received an email which was “ a public health message from NHS Test and Trace” inviting me to get the app. I will not be taking them up on this ,
wondering which source they have got my email address (unless it is the same source as the Nigerian Bank officials wanting to give me $1 million). No, it was the GP practice that provided this. Not sure about the legality of this under GDPR.
And talking of GDPR they provide a link to the NHS Test and Trace Privacy Notice which does quote some of the GDPR sections that justify keeping and distributing the data. Not sure of the legality of this. Has anyone checked it?

152158 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to mjr, #1204 of 1704 🔗

Husband got this too – at around 2pm. He gets a Flu jab every year – is that the list used?

152543 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to mjr, #1205 of 1704 🔗

Report as a spam/pfishing email.

152180 Albie, replying to Albie, 14, #1206 of 1704 🔗

What are the Covid loving BBC up to? They are going all out on the disgraceful way students are being treated. What is their angle? If they aren’t careful, readers and viewers may ask broader questions about how we are all currently being disgracefully treated.

152190 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Albie, 6, #1207 of 1704 🔗

Yes, good question as to why the BBC love Covid so much, but they certainly do.

152207 ▶▶▶ Albie, replying to Julian, 4, #1208 of 1704 🔗

I’m more quizzical as to why they are pushing the student treatment as it doesn’t fit with their “obey and do as you’re told, nothing but Covid matters” narrative.

152297 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Albie, 1, #1209 of 1704 🔗

Because people love to play the “isn’t it dreadful?!!” game.
So people can either complain that the treatment of the students is dreadful
OR they can complain that the students’ behaviour is dreadful.
BBC wins either way.

152251 ▶▶▶ AnotherSceptic, replying to Julian, 9, #1210 of 1704 🔗

Because the BBC is the government’s mouthpiece & propaganda machine.
They have never once stopped going on about the “pandemic” even when it went quiet on most other news channels in the summer, the BBC could not & would not shut up about it.
Arseholes the lot of them at the BBC.

152294 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, #1211 of 1704 🔗


152526 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Julian, 1, #1212 of 1704 🔗

Because the BBC wants to usher in this new normal, carbon zero agenda2030 communitarian global revolution. The BBC is the deep state.

They are waging psychological warfare on us.

152563 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Julian, #1213 of 1704 🔗

Simples – the BBC loves Covid because Trump hates it.

152222 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Albie, 5, #1214 of 1704 🔗

Perhaps this is what they call “balance”? Or else enough BBC producers have children at university and a chink of light is getting through?

152232 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Albie, 6, #1215 of 1704 🔗

BBC is in a dilemma. For years they have been chasing the younger audience who dont really listen to the radio or watch tv. Hence Sounds replacing iplayer and lots of programmes changing their targets. And ignoring their current audience – who are mainly middle aged or older .
So they are fine with BLM, Global warming and other woke subjects. But now Covid is having a bad effect on students the BBC dont want to knock their “target audience”. So they have weighed up the COvid doom and gloom stance and decided to vary it here so they support the students .

152288 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to mjr, 2, #1216 of 1704 🔗

Correct. One look at the features articles they have on their website tells you exactly which demographic they’re desperate to identify with.

152482 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Achilles, 2, #1217 of 1704 🔗

Also a lot of the students came from the homes of the smug public sector, guardian reading Karens who are quite happy with full pay lockdown for them, but all of a sudden aren’t happy about their precious offspring being banged up for weeks when they are paying a fortune for an education that could be got for free from Khan Academy

152181 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 4, #1218 of 1704 🔗

“Has Spain just peaked? That would be big news for Europe. It feels like that to me. Both charts below look like they are rolling over
 The most interesting is to have a look at cases in Spain according to Ministry of Health. These are cases with PCR+. If you go into other presentations, worldometer and daily reports the cases are much higher because they have included serology testing to increase the confusion. This slide is more realistic and would also align more with deaths and not give that extreme low CFR as indicated earlier.

152186 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to swedenborg, 13, #1219 of 1704 🔗

Cue the govt dropping Spain as the country to follow, and moving onto somewhere else with a higher/longer peak.

152671 ▶▶ Basics, replying to swedenborg, #1220 of 1704 🔗

Cor! That looks like a flatterning Gompertz. My lockdown life!

But it’s really tempting to see those risings stalling.

Oh how these graphs in a few days might look. To throw like sand in to the faces of bill and ben.

152196 Seansaighdeoir, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 16, #1221 of 1704 🔗

Popped into Tesco on the way home from London and for the first time was challenged by a young girl about wearing a face mask. I walked right past her saying I have an exemption. She wasn’t happy with that and went to reply but I had walked past her by that point.

This is a definite change in policy I think after the events of this week. I wasn’t clear in the moment whether she should even be asking me, but it was clear that her sole role was to stand guard on the door and challenge everyone who came in not wearing one. She was doing nothing else and deliberately made her to me on entry as having seen her I had begun to take evasive action as I knew what was coming.

The only other people not wearing masks were half the check out staff. Everyone else in the store including those in the cafeteria were wearing them. It wasn’t a nice experience and you can definitely sense an upping of the ante.

She had also challenged an old guy 75-80 maybe as I could see they were in conversation on my way out. He was the only other person in the store without one but appeared to be wearing a lanyard although I didn’t recognise the motif. She was animatedly saying something although he looked quite stoic in response.

I can see the govt doing something to make this exemption issue even more unpleasant for the maskless sooner rather than later. I can see this going down a very dark road…

152223 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 14, #1222 of 1704 🔗

I am getting heartily sick of young staff,a lot of them 40 years younger than me,showing absolutely no respect to customers in shops.I was brought up to show respect to elders and I did,I would never of dreamt of shouting at or being rude to someone many years my senior but it has happened to me a few times in shops this year.

152336 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 15, #1223 of 1704 🔗

Exactly. I wonder how these kids are going to deal with the very elderly. Are they going to bully and berate someone in their 80s or 90s who is frail.

A lot of my customers fall into this category. Some of them really don’t understand all this, especially the T&T stuff. And I don’t blame them when they don’t want to leave their details. One chap, in yesterday, who I would guess is in his late 80s was telling me about his trips to hospital for dialysis. It sounded wretched (he was the one a few months ago who was sad because they don’t provide any reading material, tea or biscuits any more, you know, things that make a visit to hospital a bit more bearable). Anyway, as he was talking to me I could see tears in eyes and at that moment I just wished my MP could have seen his face. Perhaps then she would see what effect this is having on ordinary people. I hate, hate what they have done.

152226 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 12, #1224 of 1704 🔗

I don’t get why some supermarkets have gone back 3 months with how they are operating. They must surely be aware that the same exemptions apply and that asking people is violating the equality act. There might need to be some emails sent back to head office, so the staff and particularly the staff door are briefed properly.

152246 ▶▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to Hubes, 8, #1225 of 1704 🔗

Tbh in the moment I wasn’t sure what the policy was. In 6 months I have never been challenged regarding a face mask at Tesco or Sainsbury. It seems a definite change in policy.

I was under the impression that even to challenge non mask wearers is a violation of the act.?

I think the idea is that they are evangelising the young to get them to do their dirty work as alot of these will be ambitious and hoping to please the managers who are driving it. If I find this policy of challenging non mask wearers is wrong I will take it up with the managers.

152260 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 6, #1226 of 1704 🔗

“You should wear a face covering” is not a problem (the government advises no challenge, but a member of staff reminding you of the rules is no worse than a poster doing the same).

Any come back on “I’m exempt” starts to be a problem.

152395 ▶▶▶▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to matt, 2, #1227 of 1704 🔗

Not quite true. A poster is simply stating something and is a zero sum game. You can ignore it with zero comeback.

A staff member interacting with you has the potential for all sorts of outcomes. She was young and pleasant although masked but I wasn’t prepared for it and it caught me off guard.

The fact that my response also wasn’t enough for her also could have let to multiple outcomes. That increases the stress which is what it is clearly supposed to do. That then in turn raises the potential for conflict and opens up all sorts of possibilities.

That is not a zero sum game and is in no way similar to simply reading something on a wall.

152277 ▶▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 9, #1228 of 1704 🔗

They probably shouldn’t be asking at all but as soon as you say you’re exempt that should be the end of it.
I would email the store you went to today and tell them what happened.

Ask them why there has been a change in policy considering nothing has changed from the point of view of customers wearing masks in supermarkets.
Inform them that anybody asked why they are exempt is a violation of the equality act.

They also need to be reminded that severe distress is a reason to not wear one. I don’t think people who suffer from anxiety or panic attacks want to be questioned by some jobsworth at a supermarket entrance, as it’s likely to make their condition worse.

152274 ▶▶▶ Sara, replying to Hubes, 3, #1229 of 1704 🔗

The police went into one of the large supermarkets near me, on Friday, and fined people. They were active along a shopping parade near me on Thursday. I don’t think the increase in pressure is coming from the shops themselves.

152284 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sara, #1230 of 1704 🔗

That explains the increased fear and compliance then!

152299 ▶▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to Sara, 4, #1231 of 1704 🔗

How could they fine them? The people they challenged obviously had no idea of the law whatsoever or maybe responded with abuse or just said they didn’t wanna wear them. Have the police got nothing better to do. Infuriating.

152373 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sara, 4, #1232 of 1704 🔗

What I don’t understand is why, when oh, I don’t know, you are threatened or your business has been burgled, there are no police to assis you (“limited resources”) But now, the police are absolutely everywhere …. Did I miss something or am I being really thick?

152480 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to kh1485, 2, #1233 of 1704 🔗

Similarly Thug Plod was invisible for BLM chaos but is wheeled out for anti lockdown protests.
Again Lukashenkos Belarus seems to have more freedom of association than UK

152522 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sara, #1234 of 1704 🔗


152681 ▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Sara, #1235 of 1704 🔗


152210 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 15, #1236 of 1704 🔗

Great that one or two come on here to debate

And the debate here points to the problem within government

Too much complexity, too many cooks, too many agencies…..WHO, EU, Imperial College and so on resulting in completely overthinking the situation, the reality staring them in the face.

The only reliable data from the outset have been overall mortality compared to the five year average.

The spikes that caused such alarm in March/April/May were caused as much by the panic as by anything else, the immediate discharge from hospital of thousands of elderly, infirm, immunocompromised patients, some carrying viral infections of different types, all deadly if spread to nursing homes.

In any case, since that alarm, deaths have returned to on or about the five year average, July bang on the five year average, August below the five year average, so that, for the year, deaths are comparable to population adjusted deaths twenty years ago, slightly above those for 2017/2018, unremarkable.

These are not the kind of numbers that indicate any kind of medical emergency whatsoever.

Someone was on here quoting mortality figures for Manaus to make a point about the situation in Britain. Manaus is in the Amazonian rainforest. We have no idea of the quality of their medical records, diagnosis, cause of death certification. That is what I mean by overthinking.

The fact is that deaths in this country for this year are not out of the ordinary. There is no medical emergency. There isn’t going to be a medical emergency outside of seasonal influenza.

As the coronavirus expert in China during the original outbreak said back in February, covid 19 is just a severe cold……

Time to stop this complete nonsense, idiocy.

152225 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #1237 of 1704 🔗

Hello, ref ‘ Time to stop this complete nonsense, idiocy.’ the question is how do we do that?

152329 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #1238 of 1704 🔗

Work through the system, your local M.P.

The pressure on parliament is starting to ramp up with so much more awareness now of the economic consequences, job losses, of all this silliness.

If parliament does not respond, the whole Christmas thing will be picked up (finally) by newspapers etc.

All the overseas broadcast panic will dissipate after 03 Nov U.S. election so the numpties will no longer be able to point overseas. But we will be able to, Britain’s measures looking increasingly dotty, the government ridiculed internationally.

M.P.s are starting to get the hang of it. Keep up the pressure.

152366 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Steve Martindale, #1239 of 1704 🔗

Do the majority want it stopped though?

152282 ▶▶ jb12, replying to Tim Bidie, 3, #1240 of 1704 🔗

Yeah, but when the sheeple think that there would have been 500,000 deaths without the lockdown, sober comparison to previous years means nothing to them.

152333 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to jb12, #1241 of 1704 🔗

Until those wallets lighten…….

152291 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tim Bidie, 2, #1242 of 1704 🔗

The only reliable data from the outset have been overall mortality compared to the five year average.”

No.The 5-year average is far too short a period to grasp the range of mortality.

We have been going through a period of exceptionally low mortality since about 2010.

The odds are that this is leading into a period of a return to higher mortality rates – in line with historical periodic variation.

152307 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #1243 of 1704 🔗

Apparently though with loads of data uncertainty the right thing to do is take a hypothetical model as gospel with its Reasonable Worst Case scenario (how you define Reasonable when the source data has high uncertainty making it unfit it to use for anyone with an ounce of sense is beyond me)

And then apply that diligently to the real world and convince people that there is a killer virus on the loose, rather than there being a virus that will not cause significant deaths or be really noticed if the media weren’t banging on about it.

152380 ▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Tim Bidie, #1244 of 1704 🔗

Good post. Also it seems no-one took into account the previous “soft” flu season which lead to the build up of so called “dry tinder” (I don’t like that phrase) per Ivor Cummins’ analysis. Had they done so the initial spike in covid deaths would have been seen in context.

152219 Hubes, replying to Hubes, 20, #1245 of 1704 🔗

You’d have to be a special kind of stupid to download that poxy track and trace app. Why would you voluntarily want to risk 2 weeks house arrest on a rolling basis for god knows how long. I guess the same people downloading it will be the same morons who voluntarily pop for a covid test. They deserve to be locked up permanently.

152254 ▶▶ Mike, replying to Hubes, 4, #1246 of 1704 🔗

That would be a hell of a lot of the general public locked up…

152257 ▶▶▶ Mike, replying to Mike, 8, #1247 of 1704 🔗

And to clarify, I’m not saying thats a bad thing. However, based on the increased number of masked morons in town today I would have to say that it is likely ‘US’ who will be the ones rounded up at this rate. Definitely an increase in face nappies on the street today. I dispair for the star of the general public.

152264 ▶▶▶▶ Mike, replying to Mike, 8, #1248 of 1704 🔗

I’d also say this, the CIA pulled a blinder with the coining of the term ‘conspiracy theory’, I know a lot of what I would have thought as sane, rational and intelligent people who are so traumatised but the thought of being labelled a conspiracy theory nut job that they won’t even look at the evidence that is right in front of their face.

I have used the fable of the ’emperors new clothes’ for years, but I can’t think of anything that better sums up this current fantasy?? Any suggestions?

152295 ▶▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to Mike, 5, #1249 of 1704 🔗

I think probably about 5% aren’t morons. The rest are a lost cause. That was obvious before this. We can just easily identify them now.

152790 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Hubes, #1250 of 1704 🔗

Trust you mean 5% of the CIA …

152300 ▶▶▶ DThom, replying to Mike, 4, #1251 of 1704 🔗

In Darlington High street today. Can’t believe the number of young people walking around the streets with masks on!
Sainsbury had almost 100% compliance.

152265 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Hubes, 5, #1252 of 1704 🔗

Just shoot the buggers and save the planet.

152285 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Sue, 1, #1253 of 1704 🔗

Terrible – but true!

152376 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Hubes, 1, #1254 of 1704 🔗

I’ve decided I’m downloading it onto a second SIM for a quiet life in the many pubs that I visit. Will even scan it with a nice big smile on my face.

152220 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 11, #1255 of 1704 🔗

Our illustrious PM mentions Bill Gates yesterday, mentions Bill Gates again in today’s speech to the UN and goes on about Bill predicting the pandemic in 2015.

Is he trying to tell us something?

Trying to break his control but hasn’t got his courage screwed up enough yet?

Strange anyway.

152228 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Awkward Git, 9, #1256 of 1704 🔗

Or angling for his next job.

152367 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to DRW, 1, #1257 of 1704 🔗

Yes, agree. He’s deluded!

152374 ▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to DRW, 2, #1258 of 1704 🔗

I think that’s in the bag. It will be a very well paid one too.

152234 ▶▶ Hopeful, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #1259 of 1704 🔗

I thought the same. Seemed to be code in there somewhere. Too many weak, protect my job and next career move MPs for me to feel very confident about Monday’s debate and vote.

152337 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1260 of 1704 🔗

I personally think he’s trying to tell us he’s not it’s in control of what’s happening… maybe?

152359 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1261 of 1704 🔗

Like a hostage trying to get a message to someone to come and save him,or the ramblings of a mad man

152548 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Awkward Git, #1262 of 1704 🔗

I find all these mentions very concerning (and I generally resist conspiracism! )…you wonder if Gates has got to Cummings by some route. No idea what’s going on but it smells very, very bad.

152221 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 15, #1263 of 1704 🔗

Just listening to Talk Radio with Tim Loughton on who seems to think that we all must take certain measures and that if not you should be penalised. This is one of the Rebel MPs asking for a change to procedures.

The extension will be voted in most likely and now the seed has been sown in people’s minds and politicians’ minds that we all must do the Common Good.

He seemed to be saying that if you didn’t have a medical condition for not wearing a mask you couldn’t say you were exempt.

It just does not figure in these people’s heads that we should end all of the measures now.

There are going to be riots by Christmas

152244 ▶▶ jb12, replying to mhcp, 11, #1264 of 1704 🔗

I doubt there will be riots, people love this situation so much that, not even now, do they care to look past what the TV tells them to do.

And this is what was always going to happen with these politicians. They’ll get the opportunity to vote on the measures and they will vote to keep them going. I don’t know why any adult has any faith in the parliamentary system at this point. It is all window dressing.

152315 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to jb12, #1265 of 1704 🔗

Hope you’re right.

152273 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mhcp, 1, #1266 of 1704 🔗


152296 ▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to mhcp, 1, #1267 of 1704 🔗

Interesting but that definitely seems to be the direction of travel.

152356 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to mhcp, 1, #1268 of 1704 🔗

There won’t be riots. The sheeple love it and they are a huge majority. We need to stop kidding ourselves.

152365 ▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 2, #1269 of 1704 🔗

They’d riot if we tried to go back to normal. They absolutely love all this bollocks.

152537 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #1270 of 1704 🔗

Until the supermarket shelves are empty, round about mid-December.

152227 DRW, replying to DRW, 8, #1271 of 1704 🔗

Just spent the afternoon sorting out Christmas shopping plans through online orders. Never liked shopping anyway but the concerted effort to make it as miserable as possible must be costing them millions, especially when you think how bad it could get by December.

152278 ▶▶ IanE, replying to DRW, 2, #1272 of 1704 🔗

Bezos is happy though!

152321 ▶▶ Arkleston, replying to DRW, 6, #1273 of 1704 🔗

You know what – you’ve given me an idea. I think I’m going to unpack the decorations and celebrate Christmas early, since it could definitely be bad by December. I’m in New Jersey, so there also will be the fall out from the US presidential elections to deal with.

People are already preparing for Halloween here. I was driving behind a car recently and it had a zombie hand dangling from the trunk (boot). Not as scary as our vanishing human rights, though.

152230 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 3, #1274 of 1704 🔗


 Video interview

At about 7 11 Fauci attack Atlas press conference and dismiss that herd immunity is near anywhere.Interesting as they are both in the same Team.

152268 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to swedenborg, 4, #1275 of 1704 🔗

I got the impression they’re on opposite sides now.

Maybe pure politics now that Trump seems to have lost his support for Fauci.

152306 ▶▶ BJJ, replying to swedenborg, #1276 of 1704 🔗

Can´t get access

152575 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to BJJ, #1277 of 1704 🔗
152233 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 12, #1278 of 1704 🔗

Shoutout to nocheesegromit:

Here’s the leaflet you said you would like a copy of:

152530 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to kh1485, #1279 of 1704 🔗

Fantastic thank you!

152235 matt, replying to matt, 12, #1280 of 1704 🔗

(Well – I think it’s interesting)

I’m in my newly adopted local (my old regular boozer closed for lockdown, never to reopen). They’re now encouraging people To use the NHS app to register their location with a QR code at the door. I demurred and scribbled my usual fake number on their sign up sheet. I walked in without a mask. No comment. I’ve been to the loo without a mask no comment.

But they’re reminding other people that they’re supposed to wear a mask when they’re not sat down. I think part of it is that they’re worried that they get fined if people aren’t following the mask rules. But apparently I don’t count.

I wonder what’s going on?

152249 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to matt, 14, #1281 of 1704 🔗

That don’t bug you as they have realised you know how to play the game and won’t kowtow to the bullshit.

Taking the easy way out and line of least resistance is what they are doing.

152256 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #1282 of 1704 🔗

I’ve had some pretty loud sceptical court-holdings in here and several sceptical conversations with the staff. Maybe that’s it.

152261 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, 2, #1283 of 1704 🔗

Is it the way you scowl at everyone?

152484 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Cheezilla, #1284 of 1704 🔗

I do have a good scowl.

152368 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to matt, #1285 of 1704 🔗

They know you are a regular and won’t report them for breaking the rules

152523 ▶▶ Basics, replying to matt, #1286 of 1704 🔗

Have you had a chat in the past with them?

152524 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, #1287 of 1704 🔗

Aha, as anticipated they are wise.

152237 Alan P, replying to Alan P, 27, #1288 of 1704 🔗

Two responses I get to the LS argument. Either (1) I know people who’ve died from this and they were only in their 30’s with no underlying medical conditions (or their 40’s or 50’s etc.), you wouldn’t be saying those things if you knew people, this disease is a killer, and so on (what I call a “full Konnie Huq brexit meltdown” refer to Matthew Wright channel 5 to see what I mean) or (2) shrug shoulders, sigh, murmur “yeah, but what can we do about it”;

Then I read or listen to MSM and feel like I’m talking to the brainwashed.

thank the world for this site and all the sane (!) people that comment on here.

You keep my faith alive……

152247 ▶▶ dpj, replying to Alan P, 20, #1289 of 1704 🔗

I genuinely wonder sometimes if I missed the announcement last year that scientists had found a cure for death and no one was dying any more and then covid came along and people started dying again. No one seems to be able to put the covid death stats anywhere like a proper context against all deaths. I regularly ask people how many people die in UK every year and what daily average is and most of them have no clue.

152258 ▶▶▶ Alan P, replying to dpj, 6, #1290 of 1704 🔗

your average person is beyond numerate. Some are quite illiterate too!

152262 ▶▶▶▶ Alan P, replying to Alan P, 5, #1291 of 1704 🔗

It’s a piss poor reflection on our education system…

152330 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Alan P, 3, #1292 of 1704 🔗

Watching god awful reality television is the reason.

152259 ▶▶▶ Telpin, replying to dpj, 9, #1293 of 1704 🔗

Agree . The lack of any context is baffling . One of the most telling statistics is the monthly total Co Vid deaths for last month (110) compared to those from influenza ( over 1k). Do only Co Vid lives matter?

152269 ▶▶▶▶ Alan P, replying to Telpin, #1294 of 1704 🔗

And Covid lives below the age of 65 with no comorbidities?

152378 ▶▶▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to Alan P, 1, #1295 of 1704 🔗

Last time I looked it was about 1500 people max, so below the average of one deaths worth of deaths in this country. The sheeple think millions have died probably.

152384 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ dpj, replying to Hubes, 4, #1296 of 1704 🔗

There was a recent survey and one of the questions was what percentage of UK population have died of covid and average answer was 7%

152527 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to dpj, #1297 of 1704 🔗

Which would make the total death figures around 4.7 million, which is especially hilarious when you consider how the total deaths worldwide is around ~1 million (?)

152551 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ dpj, replying to nocheesegromit, 3, #1298 of 1704 🔗

To be honest that result didn’t really surprise me that much. I genuinely think there are a huge % of people who are so brainwashed they think that a huge number of people have died, if they catch it they will die too and it’s the biggest killer by quite a distance. You would think going by the amount of coverage it gets in MSM that it must be that dangerous.

152372 ▶▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Telpin, 6, #1299 of 1704 🔗

That’s why we need a law that the govt can’t publish covid figures without at the same time publishing the figures for all other respiratory diseases. Context is everything.

152528 ▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Telpin, 2, #1300 of 1704 🔗

I think pointing out that flu deaths are running at 10 times Covid ‘positive’ deaths is a very effective way of challenging the preconceptions of evangelical believers. Though you will be met with disbelief, unless you can show the official statistic.
I’d be grateful if somebody could point out where this stat is easily found, on an ongoing weekly basis.
A heavy flu season can be expected for several reasons, and could easily surpass the total UK Covid mortality.

152344 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Alan P, #1301 of 1704 🔗

Category 2 are the ones to work on

153186 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Alan P, #1302 of 1704 🔗

How many times are you gonna post this? I’ve seen this multiple times on here now.

152266 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 5, #1303 of 1704 🔗

Sage scientist had no idea about the pub curfew measure until announced!?


They do comment later that with current cases we will see 100 deaths a day in 3-4 weeks time. If that doesn’t happen, will they admit they were wrong? I would if I am.

152279 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Sarigan, 3, #1304 of 1704 🔗

Susan Mitchie was on TalkRadio a couple of days ago and was asked about SAGEs input into the latest measures, she said that SAGE, or at least the behavioural Insights part of it was not consulted on the latest measures…

152343 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Dave #KBF, 6, #1305 of 1704 🔗

I can believe it. I think the PM and Hancock are making it up as they go along now – wheel out Whitty and Vallance with scary graphs, then cook up some barmy restrictions that will do no good, and piss everyone off, but make it look like they are doing something, because Something Must Be Done.

152354 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Julian, 4, #1306 of 1704 🔗

People keep believing it though.

152476 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Julian, 1, #1307 of 1704 🔗

Everyone but Tegnell does.
The most lockdown and Mask zealous Bavarian PM had to admit publicly that no documents exist on which basis his decisions have been made.
The sheep and the cheerleaders just shrugged their shoulders.

152351 ▶▶ Eamon, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1308 of 1704 🔗

The problem with higher infection rates is that esp. in hospitals it will increase the died with. Don’t forget the died of in this country is actually a fairly low 30k

152276 swedenborg, 3, #1309 of 1704 🔗


“Centuries of policymaking should have taught us that the harsher the ban, the more eagerly the people use their new freedom when bans are lifted

 This twitter thread discusses the situation in France with a harsh lockdown with only holidays within 100 km and then finally opening up. A quickly a rush of holidays out of France and many dual nationality visiting home countries. Probably the same situation in UK and an explanation of the current surge also evidence in the ethnicity C-19 data in UK among current cases.

152302 ▶▶ Adamb, replying to Richard, 6, #1311 of 1704 🔗

Yes, I wonder if that loophole will be closed off now, produce written evidence or else sort of thing.

152313 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Adamb, 5, #1312 of 1704 🔗

I think it will come.

152339 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #1313 of 1704 🔗

So do I, I am thinking of trying to book appointment with GP to get something in progress.

Doubt I would get an appointment, if cancer is unimportant why should mental health matter?

152352 ▶▶▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Dave #KBF, 7, #1314 of 1704 🔗

Most GPs won’t write letters.

152423 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Londo Mollari, 3, #1315 of 1704 🔗

They will for the right fee.

152355 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nic, replying to Dave #KBF, 5, #1316 of 1704 🔗

Waste of time tried to arrange to speak to my gp regarding mask exemption I have asthma, but was told it was nothing to do with her and to follow government guidelines via the corona government web site free pass then.

152448 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Dave #KBF, 5, #1317 of 1704 🔗

Even the sheeple might revolt, if they find out that you can get a GP appointment for a mask exemption, but not for an EEG or a cancer swab.
No country on Earth has been as stupid and reckless as the UK with regard to making their health service primarily Covid for a year+.
Which is in turn why it had to be so lax on the mask exemptions.
Fortunately, until the former changes, there is no chance that the latter can change.

152364 ▶▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Awkward Git, 15, #1318 of 1704 🔗

It might do, in which case it gets interesting. A number of us feel so strongly about masks that we will refuse in any circumstances. Then what? Will the government start jailing pensioners like me?

I realise this is easier for me than for some, as I no longer have to feed my family who have all left home.

Nonetheless it is a hill I am willing to die on.

152572 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1319 of 1704 🔗

The German Harley Street neurologist Margarete Griesz-Brisson states in her very moving video that she thinks that anyone who claims that he/she can’t breathe properly must be entitled to a medical doctor’s exemption certificate.

152697 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1320 of 1704 🔗

But surely unenforceable until such time as GPs are working properly and able to issue such evidence?

152319 ▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to Adamb, 10, #1321 of 1704 🔗

I doubt it. It would mean people would have to get a letter from their gp, which would be time consuming especially with how doctors are currently operating.
I don’t think they need to tighten it up. Every shop I go is either 99% or 100% compliant already. People love wearing them

152468 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Adamb, 3, #1322 of 1704 🔗

In Germany, medical certificates were needed for that from day one, but then, its health service never stopped working or became primarily Covid.
I spare you the details, but harassment and refusal to accept even the certified exemptions were and are a tug of war, in the shops and courts.
More recently, there seems to be a little less harassment by the public and much less by businesses staff, as they have become more aware of the legal thin ice they are walking upon here.
Sadly, two lower courts have recently chosen to abolish patient secrecy rights, when demanding the illness to be specified on the exemptions for pupils, a no-go first which is being challenged but should and would never have happened before.
On the bright side, the most zealous over enforcer, a Swedish furniture store of all places, recently had to backtrack significantly and the legal reasons for that are now going viral, so there is hope that that at least will soon be clarified and in exempt peoples favour.

152509 ▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #1323 of 1704 🔗

Did a German rally go ahead today, I wonder?

152559 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Kevin 2, 1, #1324 of 1704 🔗

Small one in Cologne.
Big one at Lake Constance planned for 3.10..
Interesting one (no logos, flags, talking) for 10.10 in Berlin.

152664 ▶▶▶ Steve, replying to Adamb, 1, #1325 of 1704 🔗

How can you prove things like severe distress and anxiety? I suppose anger and outrage at wearing a mask can be proved when you turn round and thump someone…

152316 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Richard, 9, #1326 of 1704 🔗

Facebook removing posts promoting this though (according to the article). Also no comments allowed on the article. Any attempt to formalise this will put GPs under strain and is probably unlikely. If it does happen, people just need to claim that it causes anxiety and stress – as there is no test for this GPs would need to sign it off as a mental health issue.

152327 ▶▶▶ Adamb, replying to Ozzie, 5, #1327 of 1704 🔗

Yes I think you’re probably right, just another step towards quashing dissent achieved by ‘shaming’ the non-compliant

152332 ▶▶▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Adamb, 4, #1328 of 1704 🔗

Yes – these are attempts to shame. I don’t know how anyone can tell whether or not someone is exempt from wearing a mask – the author is speculating.

152407 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to Richard, 6, #1329 of 1704 🔗

Surely they will need to repeal the discrimination provisions in the Equality Act first – how will that look? Making people with disabilities/ health conditions to stand out as such. These people have no virtue to signal – no moral compass at all

152418 ▶▶▶ Richard, replying to Telpin, 3, #1330 of 1704 🔗

Yes – not sure they would go that far but just keep pushing up public shaming of those resisting without changing any laws. Have only had one issue so far but it was extraordinary in showing how on edge a lot of the Sheeple are

152422 ▶▶▶▶ Telpin, replying to Richard, 8, #1331 of 1704 🔗

My view now is that people challenge non maskers because they’re actually angry that they have to wear one – and don’t want to view others seemingly getting away with it.

152472 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Telpin, 1, #1332 of 1704 🔗

They are either fanatics, or angry at themselves that they have neither the wit nor the courage to claim and practice the exemption.
I have answers ready for both factions.

152824 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Telpin, #1333 of 1704 🔗

A evil act that has SPI/Bs fingerprints all over it.

152760 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Richard, 1, #1334 of 1704 🔗

Monday’s graph from Tweedledum and Tweedledee will have put a lot of people on edge.
Very successful psy-op!

152517 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Richard, #1335 of 1704 🔗

Not suitable for the weekly shop but for single item shops phoning the shop and arranging the sale on the phone, discussing payment and offering to pick up from door is one way to do things.

In my experience people listen to my quick reasoning, I’m not prepared to wear a mask. When collecting the see me shout into the shop and beckon me in. Not one issue.

Like I say not practical for large shops buy 5 or so items in a hardward shop/ chemist it’s fine. Local shops are best.

152283 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 9, #1336 of 1704 🔗

I like the way the CDC have got a nice photo diagram to show you how to take off a mask.

Last step – don’t touch anything especially not your face, wash your hands.

Even on a few other pages it says “It’s especially important to wash:

  • After handling your mask

I hate those bastards who play with there masks in the shop then handle all the food, dirty gits.

Only thing worse is putting them onto tables and throwing them in the street.

152286 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, #1337 of 1704 🔗

The photo thing

152318 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Awkward Git, 15, #1338 of 1704 🔗

Nobody our way does all that.Out of shop, rip off mask, stuff in pocket. Only diehard zombies have the slightest belief in the foul things.

152301 AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, #1339 of 1704 🔗

Report from the frontline in London today from Rev Simon Sideways.

‘The beatings will continue until morale improves’ comes to mind.


152745 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, #1340 of 1704 🔗

Police smashed the PA equipment!

152305 Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, 14, #1341 of 1704 🔗

Tiny bit of normality today. Waitrose delivery driver arrived unmuzzled with all the groceries in crates instead of a dozen plastic bags. We were able to take the crates inside and unpack them. Asked about the plastic bags – he said the government have re-introduced the charge on them, so Waitrose are now honouring the “no plastic bags” requests from customers again.

152322 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Ozzie, 2, #1342 of 1704 🔗

Amazing, you cannot make this *rap up.

152623 ▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to Ozzie, 2, #1343 of 1704 🔗

I know my Saisbury’s delivery man. I was pleased he had no mask and he carried the heavy shopping upstairs and other items to the kitchen for me. I’m disabled and have had to beg drivers to even lift the groceries up the front steps recently!

152636 ▶▶ Steve, replying to Ozzie, 1, #1344 of 1704 🔗

None of my fellow drivers at our store wear masks while driving and delivering and it isn’t, and never has been, company policy. The only real change to our delivery routine throughout the entire pandemic is that we now take a photo of the shopping instead of the customer signing for it, a change that I actually hope will stay in place as it’s quicker.

152738 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ozzie, #1345 of 1704 🔗


152308 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 12, #1346 of 1704 🔗

Looking at a couple of the linked papers on the CDC website justifying asymptomatic spreading of the virus.

Quick first look the evidence they give in the studies is a bit circumstantial and ropey at times.

In one it says “ although these cases were carefully investigated, the possibility exists that an unknown source might have initiated the clusters described. ”

Then it jumps to the conclusion that this is not possible due to the contract tracing carried out but then says it’s possible that this did not catch all contacts as people aren’t that bright or reliable to remember everyone they have been in contact with.

I must really be missing something.

152737 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, #1347 of 1704 🔗

Clearly you’re not the only one!

152309 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 26, #1348 of 1704 🔗

If you believe BBC students are getting angry. Imprisoned, no food, no face to face lectures. 1 girl interviewed ‘why did I bother’

152311 ▶▶ annie, replying to stefarm, 11, #1349 of 1704 🔗

Getting angry? Now why on earth should that happen??!

152314 ▶▶ Julian, replying to stefarm, 16, #1350 of 1704 🔗

I would have hoped some of them are

Out and about in London today, sad to see so many healthy-looking 20somethings masked up, just walking down the street

152320 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Julian, 15, #1351 of 1704 🔗

They will not be looking so happy when they get bronchitis due to breathing through a mask filled with bug soup.

152324 ▶▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Julian, 14, #1352 of 1704 🔗

I don’t understand why some seem to feel the need to wear a mask outside. It is more often some of the young ones.

152328 ▶▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to Ozzie, 24, #1353 of 1704 🔗

Virtue signalling twats

152357 ▶▶▶▶▶ Old Bill, replying to Hubes, 11, #1354 of 1704 🔗

I hope you wont mind me correcting you, but can we say ‘Ignorance signalling twats’. There is no virtue whatsoever to be signalled by the wearing of a mask.

152513 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Old Bill, 4, #1355 of 1704 🔗

I’ve started perfecting a “what the fuck is wrong with you?!” Kind of look at these people in the street.
I am itching for someone to say “what the hell are you staring at?” so I can launch into a rant.

I am not myself right now.

152547 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Ozzie, 2, #1356 of 1704 🔗

Same reason why people wore Swastika armbands voluntarily.

152335 ▶▶ Will, replying to stefarm, 25, #1357 of 1704 🔗

The student outrage is doing more to turn the chattering classes sceptic than anything so far.

152369 ▶▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to Will, 7, #1358 of 1704 🔗

Quite. Many of them are the offspring of the kinds of comfortable people who have been singularly unaffected by any of this so far.

152496 ▶▶▶▶ Richard, replying to Now More Than Ever, 6, #1359 of 1704 🔗

I agree – first tangible breach of civil liberties – if you have been together since March in a comfortable home in a nice part of the world – it’s been more than ok for a lot of people – assuming no relative in a care home anywhere. Now they are seeing their kids have been subjected to a massive bait and switch operation by the government and the universities – someone stated yesterday and can not be repeated enough this has only started after the two week cooling off period they all had – the day all the fees were non refundable the clock starting ticking. Must admit though I am confused as to why the parents aren’t just turning up and pulling their kids out…

152503 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Richard, 2, #1360 of 1704 🔗

Well said.

152729 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Richard, 1, #1361 of 1704 🔗

Maybe because they foolishly believe it’s temporary?

152726 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Now More Than Ever, #1362 of 1704 🔗

Good! It’s about time this fiasco affected them.

152553 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Will, 2, #1363 of 1704 🔗

Same in Germany, where parents despair when their children and as a result the whole family is being licked up for 14 days because of 1 (likely false) positive test result at their 300 person sttong school at the momrnt.
Just had two such cases amongst acquaintances today.
Sofar obedient, now livid.

152363 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to stefarm, 7, #1364 of 1704 🔗

Hopefully.The spark for the 1968 student riots in Europe were the banning of visitors of the opposite sex in dorms

152385 ▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #1365 of 1704 🔗

The modern generation is somewhat soy-emasculated (not that I approve of fornication).

152733 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Londo Mollari, #1366 of 1704 🔗

Nothing wrong with fornication – in the right situation!

152499 ▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, 3, #1367 of 1704 🔗

Break out and sue. That’s my advice.

No way would I accept being locked up, even understanding how much effort goes into getting into university.

152736 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 1, #1368 of 1704 🔗

Are they in breach of contract, or are these “mitigating circumstances”?

152323 NY, replying to NY, 46, #1369 of 1704 🔗

This is the greatest and most harmful fraud in the history of humanity.

152594 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to NY, 7, #1370 of 1704 🔗

I am livid abut BJ increasing our contributions to the WHO with no debate and also, since when did we elect Bill Gates to determine our future?

152723 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, -1, #1371 of 1704 🔗

When you voted for de Piffle?

152331 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #1372 of 1704 🔗

Given de Piffle’s announcement was only on Tuesday, did anyone think they’ve been a bit quick getting all those QR codes out and in use?!

Apparently this was put in place two weeks ago:

How do people keep up?

152340 ▶▶ MizakeTheMizan, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #1373 of 1704 🔗

That App, and the Irish digital passport, have definitely been in development for more than 6 months. It’s almost as if the virus was used to promote the App, rather than the App developed in response to the virus.

152462 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 3, #1374 of 1704 🔗
152591 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nessimmersion, 1, #1375 of 1704 🔗

Please could someone post this link on the Twitter accounts of Julia H-B, Peter Hitchens, Simon Dolan and other sceptics?

152687 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Carrie, #1376 of 1704 🔗

I remain sceptical. This is the writer’s view, not backed up with actual evidence. It’s also very Communist and would require total nationalisation of everything for it to work.

Not going to happen, I call BS on this one.

152692 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1377 of 1704 🔗

Maybe not all imminently, but Moonshot is a definite goal and mission creep always happens eventually..

152341 kh1485, 12, #1378 of 1704 🔗
152342 GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 23, #1379 of 1704 🔗

Happy to report some normality in Glasgow’s Queens Park today. It was a beautiful autumn day and the park was very busy with dog walkers, cyclists, families and friends out for a stroll etc. and not a mask in sight! The children’s play area was really busy too, absolutely full of small kids having a ball while their parents chatted amongst themselves with zero social distancing. 😊

152349 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 15, #1380 of 1704 🔗

That will not go down well with the powers that be. The councils will put hazard tape over the parks again soon. You are not allowed to have fun or socially interact with human beings anymore.

152740 ▶▶ David, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 1, #1381 of 1704 🔗

And if it was mandated that they must wear masks, they all would.

152353 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 48, #1382 of 1704 🔗

Why do I feel so superior?

All my life I’ve been wedded to the idea that to be a decent person you had to see others through charitable eyes. Give them the benefit of the doubt. Be tolerant. Walk in their shoes. Don’t hold grudges. Be forgiving. Don’t for the life of me consider myself ‘better’ than anyone else. Humility was always such a virtue. Never being religious, but many years ago being attracted to ‘Quakerism’—That of God in every man—I remember reading a quotation by Ralph Waldo Emerson:

“Every man I meet is in some way my superior”

But I now find that those beliefs leave me a little cold. Presently, I find that every man I meet is definitely NOT my superior. The masked. The frightened. The Zombified. The spineless. The cowards. Those that can see the damage being done to their children and who take part in this abuse. The shallow minded. The thoughtless. The vacant. The selfish. The brainwashed.

I’ve had a revelation these past months. Emerson was bullshit. Whilst I still maintain my outward decency toward the people I come across in my daily life, I now I feel distinctly superior to them. I’m superior because I don’t buy any of this bullshit and never have done since the start of this whole destructive process and this feeling of inner superiority makes me feel much better equipped to face the future whatever it holds.


152362 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Harry hopkins, 8, #1383 of 1704 🔗

Walk a mile in their shoes….then, when they find out, you’re a mile away and you have their shoes…….

Just reaching for the coat…..

152381 ▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #1384 of 1704 🔗

Superiority in that regard could lead to resentment and hatred. Those are bitter pills to swallow. The superiority you experience comes at a price. For that gift of insight comes with a responsiblity to those that don’t have that gift. You can’t say where this gift came from and you did nothing to earn it. But its yours nonetheless.

If don’t respond correctly to it that gift will turn inwards to hatred and could destroy you.

152394 ▶▶▶ Hopeful, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 6, #1385 of 1704 🔗

Could it merely be that Harry feels a legitimate inner self confidence which could and should enable him to cope with whatever else spews from the ghastly covid19 geyser. Good for him.

152445 ▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 5, #1386 of 1704 🔗

Don’t worry! I’m not the self destructive type. My feelings of superiority are more linked to a sense of self confidence and independence of thought. I hadn’t realised that this was such a rare commodity (shared very much by people on this site) but whilst I feel this way inside, it doesn’t stop me from doing the right things on behalf of my neighbours—which I do regularly. Whilst I accept them —isn’t that a Christian virtue?—I just happen to pity them and my respect for them is much less than it was.

152471 ▶▶▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to Harry hopkins, 2, #1387 of 1704 🔗

Good to hear Harry – confidence is always good. Thought I’d better forewarn though as superiority can be a heavy load. Modesty is good I think so not to forget where we come from.

152494 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 5, #1388 of 1704 🔗

I really liked Harry’s comment.

I feel Harry is recognising a shift in perception that comes from understanding a fundamental truth in himself. He is confident in himself and his knowledge, so as to not need support in them from the community around him. He is confidently standing alone, independent from the mob.

To my mind he hasn’t said so as a braggard, quite the contrary, he has said so because he realised this is an unusual perception to recognise in himself.

Really interesting points all around – reflecting on the individualism of a skeptic.

152506 ▶▶▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 2, #1389 of 1704 🔗

Agree with you Seansaighdeoir. I’ll never forget my roots. When I first got married I lived in a flat with no hot water and no bath (I tell a lie—my metal bath hung on a nail in the back yard). My landlord was a ‘rag and bone man’ who kept my wife and I awake when he bashed his common law wife when he came home drunk. I did have the benefit of the most wonderful parents one could wish for and my dad, whilst never going to church, was the most ‘Christian’ man I ever knew. My outlook on life stems directly from my parents and my dad, if he was still alive, would have been an arch sceptic.

152382 ▶▶ Hopeful, replying to Harry hopkins, 2, #1390 of 1704 🔗

With you all the way Harry. Stay superior. Take care.

152383 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #1391 of 1704 🔗

My thoughts, entirely.

152441 ▶▶ John P, replying to Harry hopkins, 2, #1392 of 1704 🔗

You misunderstand :

Every man I meet is in some way my superior

Not in all ways!

I suppose the quotation is essentially a reminder that all of us have something to offer. Which includes the majority of people who buy into the bullshit.

152458 ▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to John P, 2, #1393 of 1704 🔗

No–I didn’t misunderstand. And I’m only too aware of the true meaning of the quote. But I’m afraid that any superiorities that others may have over me (and there will be very many I’m sure) are rather nul and void if they take me, and the rest of us, down with them.

152485 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #1394 of 1704 🔗

Excellent points Harry.

152358 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 12, #1395 of 1704 🔗

Life-saving vaccine?
YouGov Poll!

Today’s protests come as a third of Brits could refuse a life-saving Covid-19 vaccine because of warped conspiracy theories peddled online, a poll has found.
But scientists say some 82 per cent of Brits will need to get immunised to stop the killer bug in its tracks.
The YouGov poll of 1,663 people found that 31 per cent either “will” refuse to get the jab, or are unsure about getting one.
Among those who mainly get their news from social media sites the figure soared to a whopping 38 per cent.
Anti-vax conspiracy theorists have a staggering 57 million followers online across the UK and US, it’s been reported.

Source: The Sun

152371 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #1396 of 1704 🔗

Killer bug

152403 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Hubes, 6, #1397 of 1704 🔗

Life-saving vaccine.

152474 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1398 of 1704 🔗

It’s as crap as something I might write! Life-saving vaccine – and not your life either btw!

152490 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, #1399 of 1704 🔗

You don’t write crap, Basics!

152589 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1400 of 1704 🔗

You have a reputation for being kind to a fault Cheezilla!
Life saving vaccine – try saying that to the swollen spinal chords.

152404 ▶▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to Hubes, 2, #1401 of 1704 🔗

It’s laughable

152491 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to tonyspurs, 1, #1402 of 1704 🔗

Not funny though.

152375 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Cheezilla, 11, #1403 of 1704 🔗

Confirmed autoimmune disorderly side effects are not “conspiracy theories”.

152405 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1404 of 1704 🔗

Could it just possibly be because it’s a rushed through, untested vaccine? No, of course not.

152433 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #1405 of 1704 🔗

That plus, amusingly, the exploding lack of trust into governments, drug companies, scientists, regulators because of their treatment of any dissent since March.

152481 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #1406 of 1704 🔗

“Anti-vax conspiracy theorist”?
That’s a novel conjoining of the two hate terms.
Does it mean that you that you espouse a theory of conspiracy that holds the belief that anti-vaxxers don’t actually exist?
Or is it just gobbledegook?

Derogatory use of terms such as ‘anti-vaxxer’ and “conspiracy theorist” should forthwith be considered examples of hate speech.

Anyway, there are no ‘life-saving Covid-19 vaccines’.
And it’s a conspiracy theory to suggest otherwise.

152495 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #1407 of 1704 🔗

Ignore The Scum, as the people of Liverpool do

152676 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1408 of 1704 🔗

Today’s protests come as a third of Brits could refuse a life-saving Covid-19 vaccine because of warped conspiracy theories peddled online, a poll has found.

Or common sense? Some vaccine gets rushed into service without proper trials and people are wary? No conspiracy needed for that one.

152688 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1409 of 1704 🔗

Giesecke does not think there will be an effective vaccine imminently – which I assume is why Hancock wants to use an unlicensed one.. Since BJ’s speech today, that is probably something Gates has influenced – Gates is just gagging to start jabbing people..

152744 ▶▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1410 of 1704 🔗

It’s not life saving if it doesn’t threaten 99.6% of us.

152741 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1411 of 1704 🔗

How can it be life saving on 99.6% of the population who are not threatened by a virus that will not kill them … duuuh.

152360 Mike, replying to Mike, 8, #1412 of 1704 🔗

this may have been posted earlier so apologies…but it appears the zombies are being pointed in the direction of the ‘exempt’ people amongst them…


152801 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Mike, #1413 of 1704 🔗

It was only a matter of time.

Soon, they’ll change it so that a GP will have to sign off. And they’ll be the gatekeepers.

You see how quickly its slipping. They have a restriction introduced, we find a loophole, they take itto the next level. Next step is to move the pressure onto the GPS, one or two break rank and hand out exemptions as protest.

They are coming for increasingly more difficult groups to cajole. Students being the battleground this weekend.

152379 Silke David, replying to Silke David, 12, #1414 of 1704 🔗

In 6pm Channel5 news a Manchester student accommodation block with 700 students told to isolate for 14 weeks in their rooms as 125 tested +.
Isn’t that the ideal chance to do some research on transmission? What symptoms do they have?

152396 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to Silke David, 7, #1415 of 1704 🔗

14 weeks isolation will be the next law they come out with, then 14 months.

152399 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Hubes, 2, #1416 of 1704 🔗

Why, with The Power Of The Mask?

152483 ▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Hubes, 1, #1417 of 1704 🔗

Article 3 of the HRA will have to go

152397 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Silke David, 3, #1418 of 1704 🔗

Why 14 weeks? Is this a new thing?

I’m guessing that conveniently takes them past Christmas.

152410 ▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to A. Contrarian, 6, #1419 of 1704 🔗

Think it’s meant to say 14 days but with this government who knows these days. They’ve probably got a new statutory instrument out just for that campus. Add it to the other 400+ covid ones

152479 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Hubes, 1, #1420 of 1704 🔗

I’ve checked. It is 14 days.

152400 ▶▶ William Gruff, replying to Silke David, 7, #1421 of 1704 🔗

Fourteen weeks solitary confinement at the diktat of some anonymous fascist. When I was a youth in the 60s students had a reputation for confronting authority. What has happened to them?

152453 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Silke David, 1, #1422 of 1704 🔗

Times like these it can be good to remember 3 weeks to flatten the curve. At that time 3 weeks would have been known to be too short a period from the witty vallance bullshitters point of view. A lie giving 3 weeks based on what their own story is.

152465 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Silke David, 2, #1423 of 1704 🔗

Like elderly in care homes they are in an environment where they can be fairly easily separated from society.

152477 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Silke David, #1424 of 1704 🔗

14 DAYS.
Bad enough though!

152486 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Silke David, #1425 of 1704 🔗

Sorry, 14 days.

152502 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Silke David, #1426 of 1704 🔗

Is this legal? Some of those will be healthy – well they are all healthy but you know what I mean…

152586 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Silke David, 1, #1427 of 1704 🔗


152387 Ryan, replying to Ryan, 33, #1428 of 1704 🔗

Things have certainly grown since early the first protest at speakers corner a few months ago.

After today it can only grow.

Looking forward to the next one.

The walk through Regent street etc and stopping the traffic is the way to go next time if there is a ban – more and more people see more and more people protest.

In the way home I handed out the exemption cards on the tube that were doing the rounds in the crowd?

When I getting my bus later an old man was struggling putting his mask on. Was sad to see. I gave him and exemption card (his reason was entirely reasonable from what I could see). He was delighted when I told him what it was. And do you know the sad pitiful thing is ?

He held it up to the Oyster card reader when we got on the bus.

This is what has become of us.

In the UK in 2020.

152520 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Ryan, 5, #1429 of 1704 🔗

There’s no doubt the tide is turning, slowly but surely.

152655 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Ryan, #1430 of 1704 🔗

Thanks Ryan good reading.

152391 janis pennance, replying to janis pennance, 29, #1431 of 1704 🔗

Challenged for first time in 6 months at Morrisons petrol …said exempt and smiled , she apologised and said she had to ask. I said no problem I quite understand
Tomorrow off to big Garden Centre with family ..bit anxious but determined not to wear one , especially with Grandkids, they have been much less bothered by it when being with mask-free Grandma. They asked me at first why I wasnt wearing one ….I just said .. coz the Govt has bonkers and Covid has pretty much gone. Just hope I don’t meet a Covid Nazi in front of them

152475 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to janis pennance, 6, #1432 of 1704 🔗

It would be an essential part of their education.

152393 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 16, #1433 of 1704 🔗

What can you say when some people you have known for most of your life utter moronic brain dead drivel such as “I wish they would leave Boris alone, hasn’t HE had enough to put up with lately?”

152411 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to Fingerache Philip., 9, #1434 of 1704 🔗

Fuck off would be my reply to somebody saying that to me

152413 ▶▶▶ William Gruff, replying to Hubes, 5, #1435 of 1704 🔗

I’d say farewell but fuck off would be the sentiment.

152473 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Fingerache Philip., 11, #1436 of 1704 🔗

Poor Boris is struggling to afford a nanny. (Has he run out of £50 notes?)
What does Carrie do all day?
How ever do the rest of us cope?

152582 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1437 of 1704 🔗

My sisters are 10 12 years older than me so they did babysitting. Can’t Boris do the same?

152707 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #1438 of 1704 🔗

It probably classes as work in his view.

152518 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Fingerache Philip., #1439 of 1704 🔗

Most people I know are lefties, hate the PM and want more lockdown (appreciate there are lots of lefties on this site who respect liberty, truth and freedom of speech, I just don’t know any such people personally, the ones I know are all 100% bought into the pandemic narrative)

152639 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 3, #1440 of 1704 🔗

‘Lefties’/’Righties’ – all much the same in this shit-show of pathetic inhumanity. That mickey-mouse dimension has little relevance.

152538 ▶▶ matt, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #1441 of 1704 🔗

Straightforward. If he’s had enough and can’t lead (as should be obvious to anyone) he should step down. What little he’s contributed has been a disaster.

152709 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, #1442 of 1704 🔗

Seems he’s off the alcohol and on stimulants today.

152617 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #1443 of 1704 🔗

The answer is that – if he’s a bit fatigued, he can simply resign and f.off.

Most of us don’t have such an easy option for getting out of the hell-hole that is his creation.

152401 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 16, #1444 of 1704 🔗

Just received a text message telling me to download the NHS app. No please or thank you!
I’ve blocked the number and deleted the message.
Mine’s an old iphone5 so won’t run the app anyway.

152412 ▶▶ William Gruff, replying to Cheezilla, 10, #1445 of 1704 🔗

My phone doesn’t do apps and I’m leaving it that way.

152439 ▶▶▶ Ossettian, replying to William Gruff, 6, #1446 of 1704 🔗

My phone barely does phone calls.

152535 ▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to Ossettian, 2, #1447 of 1704 🔗

No text on my ancient Nokia sit up and beg phone yet, but they won’t have my number anyway.

152426 ▶▶ AllieT, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #1448 of 1704 🔗

Same here. Phone is 4 yrs old. That’s my excuse & I’m sticking to it! Turns out the app has faults anyway quelle surprise! Noticed all newspapers this morning in our Co-op were incased in ‘download the app’ propaganda

152574 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to AllieT, 3, #1449 of 1704 🔗

ALL NHS rainbow colours – how much more money can they waste, or is Bill G paying for it all?

152452 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #1450 of 1704 🔗

Can I download ‘the app’ on my old reconditioned Nokia 3310 I bought for Twenty quid recently? No?—-bug*er, I’ll just have to do without.

152460 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #1451 of 1704 🔗

Cannot beat an antique Nokia, good battery life, text and calls. What more would you want?

152464 ▶▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Dave #KBF, 6, #1452 of 1704 🔗

Agree entirely 🙂 My other phone is a nearly as old clam type Motorola—built like a battleship and still going strong!

152583 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Harry hopkins, 2, #1453 of 1704 🔗

How long till Rishi buys a new smartphone for everyone and make it compulsory to carry it with you?
First they decide what you have to wear, then what you have to carry on you.. really it’s ID cards in all but name..
If the NHS now have your phone number to send you info re the app, then they know everyone’s name and number, don’t they?

152698 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 2, #1454 of 1704 🔗

I’m in the system because I needed an operation last year. I’d managed to fly under the NHS radar for 20 years before then!

My granddaughter did all her schoolwork on her iphone during lockdown. (She inherited her mum’s castoff after an upgrade).
Meanwhile, schools waited in vain for Rishi’s promised tablets for poorer kids to be able to keep up.

It will be interesting if we can be provided with smartphones for this scam. I certainly can’t afford to buy a new one – mine was my son’s castoff.

152512 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1455 of 1704 🔗

O how I love my old Nokia dumb phone.

152734 ▶▶▶ Nsklent, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 1, #1456 of 1704 🔗

I have an old phone, plus never registered with a GP, so hoping for now I stay below the radar. If things get more ominous, selling up and once again an expat.

152571 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1457 of 1704 🔗

Where are they getting your number from? What about GDPR?

152700 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #1458 of 1704 🔗

See above. They’ve had my details since last year.

The irony is that hospital departments were incapable of speaking to each other to sort out my treatment, yet they track me for this no problem.

152761 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1459 of 1704 🔗

Nokia C2 is the way to go! 7 days battery life as well.

152408 tonys, replying to tonys, 18, #1460 of 1704 🔗

Went to a non league footy match today, you had to tell a girl at the turnstile your address but after that it felt almost completely normal, very few masks being worn in the open air. I was a much needed two hours relief from the madness, I recommend it.

152417 ▶▶ William Gruff, replying to tonys, 16, #1461 of 1704 🔗

We refuse to give our details, or to sanitise our hands if asked, and leave. The only way to bring businesses into line is to refuse to trade with them un til they see reason and stand up to the government. We’re saving a fortune on eating and drinking out.

152427 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 32, #1462 of 1704 🔗

Students in Manchester – a living hell:


“Security” preventing them from leaving halls. On what legal authority I wonder. Presumably it is illegal for them to use force?

Message to all students: DO NOT GET TESTED .

152436 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Tenchy, 17, #1463 of 1704 🔗

This has been happening to literally hundreds of thousands of older adults in residential care since this all kicked off. Maybe now someone will listen.

152567 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1464 of 1704 🔗

Seen Hancock’s latest project: this is why they want to test everyone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y068RXDc3mM&feature=youtu.be

152678 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Carrie, 2, #1465 of 1704 🔗

You ain’t researching my genome, you gimlet-eyed fanatic

152680 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Carrie, 2, #1466 of 1704 🔗


152431 Fingerache Philip., 24, #1467 of 1704 🔗

Went to Argos (instore in Sainsbury’s) in Kidderminster to pick up an online order; having to stand 4 ft from the counter ( with of course the standard perspex screen) with me and the sales assistant shouting at each other trying to make ourselves heard,
It was like a cross between the Marx brothers, Laurel and Hardy,The Goon show and Monty Python.

152443 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 17, #1468 of 1704 🔗

The police closed the anti lockdown protest in London because “The protesters weren’t social distancing”

152449 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #1469 of 1704 🔗

From the BBC website:
”Demonstrators were asked to leave and the force said anyone who stayed could be subject to enforcement.
In a statement, the Met said: “Crowds in Trafalgar Square have not complied with the conditions of their risk assessment and are putting people in danger of transmitting the virus.
“This has voided their risk assessment and we have informed the event organisers they are no longer exempt from the regulations.
“By leaving now, you can keep yourself safe and avoid any enforcement action being taken by officers,” the statement added.”

152456 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to p02099003, 14, #1470 of 1704 🔗

Within a couple of weeks, we shall see if people are on LS saying, I feel ill.

152470 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Dave #KBF, 15, #1471 of 1704 🔗

I’m alive after the 5 sept march despite the entire edinburgh online twitter audience wanting me dead. Also no wave of infections cases or deaths associated as these same poeple would have endorsed.

I feel today at trafalger was a complete success from my own distant perspective. A big crowd. Good spirits police had a go, looked and acted stupidly. Good thouggtful coverage on national news, slightly biased to outcasting skeptics but not so bad.

Some people were brutally struck by thugs in police armour. And they have injuries.

But I imagined much much worse from the police and following media.

A fine outcome. From the limited knowledge I have of the day at this point, msm and a bit of streamed coverage.

152565 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, 2, #1472 of 1704 🔗

We had the police surrounded for a good while.

152581 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #1473 of 1704 🔗

I saw kettling of smaller groups as the police divided the crowd. Batons drawn when police told prostetors to move back but were unable because of police on the other side of the kettle.

Well done Nick and anyone else who attended. Courage to remain peaceful. You put on a strong and effective protest.

152619 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, 2, #1474 of 1704 🔗


152568 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, 7, #1475 of 1704 🔗

I’ve been to three Trafalgar events on 29th Aug, 19th Sep and today, as well as the 5th Sep at Edinburgh. One lad travels from Dundee (he was at all four too, he stands out in a good way)

152669 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nick Rose, #1476 of 1704 🔗

Respect Nick!

152673 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ shorthand, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #1477 of 1704 🔗

Basics, Nick, any more planned north of the border? I want to attend. Fed up sitting on the sideline.

152809 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to shorthand, #1478 of 1704 🔗

Stand up x and saving scotland were/are/might be/ are not the groups. I don’t use fadcebook so don’t have details. Keep an eye out.

152466 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to p02099003, 4, #1479 of 1704 🔗

The facist police don’t carry the virus then?

152500 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to stefarm, 3, #1480 of 1704 🔗

Maybe they do not have human genes, so cv19 does not effect them?

152516 ▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #1481 of 1704 🔗

They have had the vaccine, side effects is turning into a facist goon

152573 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to stefarm, #1482 of 1704 🔗

They don’t need a vaccine for that, something to do with the training. Or the example set by their Commissioner. Or is that Commisar?

152675 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to stefarm, 1, #1483 of 1704 🔗

Later footage from Hyde Park showed police in uniform visors but several had their face nappies dangling from one ear and were conversing with people in the crowd.

152810 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Cheezilla, #1484 of 1704 🔗

Petri dish earings are all the rage with police. They were a real shambles of an outfit today. Sorry to bang on about it. Rabble.

152488 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to p02099003, 4, #1485 of 1704 🔗

“conditions of their risk assessment

Now you know its all bollocks.

Had ‘risk assessment’ come into this shit-show of political asininity, we would never be where we are.

152501 ▶▶▶▶ BobT, replying to RickH, 8, #1486 of 1704 🔗

Did the police do a risk assessment? If they had they would have realised that if they had not intervened nobody would have been injured. Instead there are quite a few police and otherwise peaceful protesters that have now been injured.

152510 ▶▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to BobT, #1487 of 1704 🔗

Do we know home many people got injured? Are they hospitalised?

152521 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ BobT, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #1488 of 1704 🔗

Sky news says 9 police and 3 demonstrators injured with 16 arrests.

152579 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #1489 of 1704 🔗

Well – the only sign of serious aggression that I saw came from the police.

There may have been a few of the usual arseholes in the crowd – but they were a small minority.

152580 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to RickH, 1, #1490 of 1704 🔗

Were you there Rick?

152627 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Nick Rose, #1491 of 1704 🔗

No (I’m a bit too decrepit) – I am going on what I saw from the live feed.

152566 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to BobT, 3, #1492 of 1704 🔗

At other protests arranged the organisers have been reminding the crowd they should socially distance every 30 mins. This seems to have been a condition of ‘permission’.

152505 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to RickH, 5, #1493 of 1704 🔗

I assume whoever was “the organiser” had to complete a risk assessment to get permission to gather.

I can bet they had to say that those gathering would maintain 2M distance or the event would not have been allowed to even start, and the organiser(s) would have been arrested.

152684 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #1494 of 1704 🔗

They did keep reminding people they were supposed to socially distance.
They also kept stressing the protest was peaceful and instructed people to sit down if the police attacked but maybe not everyone knew about that later on.
I did see footage of police insisting that two men stood up, though there was no contact involved at that point. The men were disdvantaged by being isolated from the other sitters.

152558 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to RickH, 1, #1495 of 1704 🔗

Almost worth booking on a HSE risk assessing course just to shout bullshit from the back of the class.

Part of the reckoning needs to look at RA failures. How can they claim the authority of safety after this wholesale ignoring has been acceoted.

152562 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to p02099003, 2, #1496 of 1704 🔗

A speaker was still talking when the riot police moved in. If they had asked us to move on before this I never heard it.

152665 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to p02099003, 1, #1497 of 1704 🔗

Surely the crowd would already have contracted covid from each other by then.
So, safe from what? Covid or the police?

152604 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #1498 of 1704 🔗

They never worried about BLM not social distancing..

152685 ▶▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to Carrie, 1, #1499 of 1704 🔗

The view they had from on their knees it probably looked as if the BLM were socially distanced and when they were running away from the blm down Whitehall they didn’t have time to look and see if they were socially distanced

152450 Kristian Short, 5, #1500 of 1704 🔗

Dunno if this has been mentioned but Heritage Party have their manifesto up.

152459 Basics, replying to Basics, 38, #1501 of 1704 🔗

Sky news report about trafalger square has started to vox pop people. A little heavy on the conspiracy word in the nutter sense but actually not so bad compared to previous coverage. Also included genuines statements of mistrust in the government.

The tide has turned and we are on the up.

152498 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Basics, 16, #1502 of 1704 🔗

I do hope so, certainly some media is now turning, a few MPs are getting concerned and an increasing number of previously lockdown supporters are having doubts.

152531 ▶▶▶ davews, replying to Dave #KBF, 10, #1503 of 1704 🔗

The report on Talk Radio news seemed very fair and clearly stated it was opposition to lockdown and not the usual fake Covid line. I mentioned earlier they had the government trace and track advert this morning but not heard it once since.

152754 ▶▶▶▶ FlynnQuill, replying to davews, 3, #1504 of 1704 🔗

I love TalkRadio, they have been excellent at calling out the government over Covid and are on the side commen sence and critical thinking. However it then drives me insane when they have brainwashing government propoganda BS on the adverts. I wrote to them a few weeks ago to point out the hypocrisy of it; I haven’t had a reply.

152525 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Basics, 4, #1505 of 1704 🔗

I like to think so, but are the majority on board?

152546 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to DRW, 6, #1506 of 1704 🔗

Obviously not. Just keep reflecting where we were against what is now. There is definite progress.

152670 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Basics, 2, #1507 of 1704 🔗

Is it too late though?

152556 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, 21, #1508 of 1704 🔗

Trafalgar Square was as full as it was on the 29th August. The march through to Hyde Park choked the centre of London as it passed up Oxford Street. I can only report from my own eye level, but the march stretched as far forward as I could see and as far back as I could see. And Oxford Street is pretty damn long.

Now these events are heavy on the conspiracy theorist side, but there are now more “mainstream” lockdown sceptics involved as well. I’m not going to slag these conspiracists off – you know my position on this side of things – mainly because they have at the least been out protesting from the start.

I’ll be giving my full report tomorrow, it’s been a long day…

152638 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #1509 of 1704