Last updated2020-09-28T09:27:29



154298 Ben Shirley, replying to Ben Shirley, 52, #1 of 2191 🔗

Men of Freedom, don’t ye cave in
To the whims of cruel and craven
Tyrants who like Michael’s raven
Prophesy our doom.
On a bright and blithe spring morning,
Johnson and his minions stormed in
With their dread and dire warning,
“Albion shan’t be free!”

Why did we deserve this?
How can we preserve this?
Freedom spurned, lives overturned!
What evil mind has served this?
We’ve seen education shattered,
Conflict rage ’twixt friends who mattered,
Protest gets us fined and battered,
Fear reigns supreme!

Men of Freedom, fret no longer,
Wit and virtue makes us stronger;
Tell the ardent battle-monger,
“Albion shan’t be slaves!”
Gilded lies no more shall fool us,
Experts who are worse than useless,
Tyranny no more shall rule us;
Show them to their graves!

Now is the awak’ning,
Nelson’s feet are shaking;
Mild and old, and young and bold,
A better world are making.
Join Trafalgar’s righteous chorus,
Men and women fighting for us,
Truth and wisdom to reign o’er us,
Liberty supreme!

(I win, by the way)

154334 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to Ben Shirley, 7, #2 of 2191 🔗

Just checked in – A worthy winner – back to sleep

154352 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Ben Shirley, 11, #3 of 2191 🔗

MADNESS! We’ve Lost Our Minds! Birmingham – they are posting testing kits through you letterbox

Dr Heiko Schöning speaks on his release from Wandsworth Police Station, 27 Sept 2020
What kind of a country have we become when arrogant bullying is seen as the proper function of Ministers? Ex-Supreme Court judge LORD SUMPTION denounces No10’s rule of muddle and authoritarianism


PETER HITCHENS: Boris’ great idea? Burn down the house TWICE to get rid of a wasps’ nest, then stand in the ruins and blame everyone but himself for this futile catastrophe
Anti lockdown protests covered on Itlaian News but not the Telegraph
Scontri a Londra tra polizia e manifestanti anti-lockdown – See more at:
German Doctor Arrested In London For Telling The Truth

154548 ▶▶▶ Van Allen, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 7, #4 of 2191 🔗

Since the German doctor release video has been censored and the Anna Breese video of him is cut before he starts speaking about the REASON for the governments’ reactions to the virus, it is obvious which part of his message caused his arrest. See the full interview on Anna Breese channel (if it hasn’t been pulled).

154976 ▶▶▶▶ Quernus, replying to Van Allen, 3, #5 of 2191 🔗

It’s still there as at this morning – interview starts at 7’10” – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRJt4Cw4lC8&t=1s

154650 ▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 4, #6 of 2191 🔗

The Dr Heiko Schoning video has been taken down (censored) by youtube.

I understand from other’s comments here that the police interventions (both at Trafalgar Square and Hyde Park) seemed to be targeted at stopping him speaking?

Clearly the government does not want you to know what he is saying; and why over a million protesters turned up to the Berlin protests.

So here are his views – please spread the word (this is the information the government is intent on suppressing – ask yourself why):
Scroll down to:
Transcript-The-Big-Bluff- (1) .pdf

154720 ▶▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to James Bertram, 15, #7 of 2191 🔗

Here is an extract:
‘…When we look at what moves the world, we see it: Money. The money and the
monetary system. 2008 – Most people will have bad memories of that. What
happened? The monetary system had collapsed. We had a financial crash and it
obviously was not planned that way, but it happened … it collapsed and we saw who
was actually to blame – the banks. And the banks have a few private owners. What
happened then? The banks were saved. In other words, the rich [individuals] who own
these banks were just bailed out with taxpayers’ money. In short – privatize profits,
socialize losses. That’s exactly how it went. We already had this crash, so to
speak. What was the solution of the powerful and the government of the world? They
said: We’re almost the culprits here now. We’ll try to buy some more time and put even
more money into the system. The money supply was multiplied since 2008. So the
whole thing was made even more dangerous, so to speak; and everyone said originally
– Schäuble, Dragi said we were only buying ourselves time. And we knew that this
crash had to actually be remedied. And the medicine – “more money” – was actually
only symptomatic. That has been written many times. Dirk Müller got it to the point very
well. Many others did, too. We know, hey, this needs to be reset. And since 2008,
there have been behind the scenes of the powerful – what I call the Mafia families –
there have been many meetings. How should we do this? And then they obviously
agreed on the World Economic Forum in Davos, in Switzerland – a meeting like this
once a year. That’s one of the venues for these – they obviously agreed how to do
it. And the title of the World Economic Forum in Davos, for January 2021 – that’s what’s
still coming in six months – the title has been fixed for a long time and it is called: The
“Great Reset” – the big restart. They already know that they want to do this. And what ismeant by that? The reset of the financial system. In 2008 it was clear: Who was
actually the culprit? It was the banks and their owners. And now, obviously – and that
can be gathered from a lot of clear plans and data – there was now a plan to start
over. And now the only question that arises is: Well, if we have such upheavals with a
restart of a financial system, then who is the culprit? And that was just from my
research out there, from the last few years, that I saw that a … a disease is obviously
being used to stir up this big panic, in order to be the boogeyman. And I made that very
clear in a long interview last year, which was broadcast on September 11, 2019 –
months before the coronavirus broke out, so to speak. I already anticipated this
“pathogen panic.” I said: “People – attention – this is being set up. You can still see it –
September 11, 2019 – you can actually watch it. Everything is clearly documented. That
means, the jump is the 2008 global economic crisis – it has to be restarted. Who is the
bogeyman? A pathogen. It could have been a deadly pathogen, like the bacterium
anthrax, which was also used in September 2001. It could also have been some other
pathogen that was fatal. What was used now? A more or less normal flu virus was
used, yes, a flu-like virus, which luckily is not much more deadly, but the important thing
is to panic people as if we had the plague here. As if we had something with a face
mask and social distancing that just kills a lot of people. And exactly this bogeyman
was just used for that. So it’s about getting to the point, it’s about the economy, it’s
about restarting the financial system. And this collateral damage, harming people in the
process, taking more suicides into account, not rendering [necessary] surgeries and a
lot more … We now have millions of deaths. That is absolutely irresponsible and it is, in
short, criminal.

154868 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to James Bertram, 5, #8 of 2191 🔗

I heard right in the beginning of the plandemic that this was all about thebanks but I hadn’t seen it spelled out like this. Thanks.

155615 ▶▶▶▶▶ ianric, replying to James Bertram, 4, #10 of 2191 🔗

The events from Saturday could work in our favour. If the police have attacked two demonstrations in Trafalgar Square and arrested the German doctor. This raises the question if the protesters and those who speak at protests are just loonies talking nonsense why does the government need to suppress protests.

156011 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ James, replying to ianric, 1, #11 of 2191 🔗

As long as the MSM do not report it it is not an issue. The powers that be are confident that as long as they control the narrative the little bits of protest are irritating but no more than that. The British people are extraordinarily docile and easy to control. Our fear of being seen to be unconventional is very deep. Until hundreds of thousands are out in the streets this will not stop. And even if they are they will push back very hard. This is not a game.

155710 ▶▶▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to James Bertram, 1, #12 of 2191 🔗

An interesting addition to this argument has been supplied by UK column today (28 mins in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1L4E0RREuI&feature=youtu.be ) with the theory that we are nearing the end of economic growth; the driver of capitalist globalism – and that governments have, up to now, controlled their peoples by the promise of economic growth (better times ahead). So when growth stops there will be much disorder; thus governments, knowing this, are looking for a new tools to control the people, such as a pandemic.

154725 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to James Bertram, 2, #13 of 2191 🔗

And Toby still doesn’t see a conspiracy.

Though maybe “conspiracy” is the wrong word, like the dead hand of the KGB or Stasi controlling people’s lives weren’t a conspiracy, they were a feature.

154869 ▶▶▶▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Lms23, 9, #14 of 2191 🔗

Toby is suffering from normalcy bias. I don’t think he’s going to snap out of it until it’s too late.
Until recently I’ve always thought it was a 50/50 between Govt incompetence and a Controlled Demolition. I’m now 25/75 as rational thought and debate are practically ZERO regardless of facts and data.

155688 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Lms23, 1, #15 of 2191 🔗

Not conspiracy so much as a common point of view, or a common goal, e.g. global socialism, where every socialist activist will play their small part.
They’re not being directed by someone, but have a common view of the world, e.g. Liz Jolly of the British Library and Susan Michie of SAGE group. They’re not colluding together, but their goal is the same, i.e. a socialist/communist society.

156048 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ James, replying to Lms23, 1, #16 of 2191 🔗

I think the left wing socialist/ Marxist idealists are being used. They are not in control of this. The irony is that the entire left wing agenda has been high jacked by people who are as left wing as Ghengis Khan.

156395 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ sam, replying to Lms23, #17 of 2191 🔗

its both
Surely Gates funding the UK government and working hand in hand with DFID and DHSC is a conspiracy in that they are conspiring together with Ferguson who came out with a fake projection to lock us down
Also we see the plan ehre

156042 ▶▶▶▶▶ James, replying to Lms23, #18 of 2191 🔗

This not a conspiracy . It is a plan and should be treated as such.

154856 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to James Bertram, 1, #20 of 2191 🔗


154974 ▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to James Bertram, 2, #21 of 2191 🔗

Is this the same video?


155079 ▶▶▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to leggy, 1, #22 of 2191 🔗

Great find, leggy. It seems to be back up. Well worth a watch, as Dr Shoning gets to explain his views, and publicise a book, and the next Berlin protest on 10th October.
( This was the previous link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1d-hogsKwE )
Also Anna Brees video now back – see comment above.
Perhaps Youtube decided that its censorship was counter-productive, giving the good Doctor publicity because of the censorship?
Perhaps they read these site comments?

154990 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #23 of 2191 🔗

Birmingham letterbox kits. Massive desperation on display. I fancy that may be counter productive in a good way. How many will be returned?

The wastage of all this is huge. As biker rightly said money is energy. Each pound has labour attached to achieve that pound. In those absolute terms any ‘drizzle’ spoken about green recovery from all this is a pukefest of lies. One Trillion pounds is an enourmous amount of wasted energy.

155654 ▶▶▶ Jane Harry, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #24 of 2191 🔗

I love your username!

156288 ▶▶▶ sam, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #25 of 2191 🔗

Chief Science Officer for Pfizer Says “Second Wave” Faked on False-Positive COVID Tests, “Pandemic is Over”
Even more significantly, even if all positives were to be correct, Dr. Yeadon said that given the “shape” of all important indicators in a worldwide pandemic, such as hospitalizations , ICU utilization, and deaths, “the pandemic is fundamentally over.”
Yeadon said in the interview:

“Were it not for the test data that you get from the TV all the time, you would rightly conclude that the pandemic was over, as nothing much has happened. Of course people go to the hospital, moving into the autumn flu season…but there is no science to suggest a second wave should happen.”

154353 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Ben Shirley, 5, #26 of 2191 🔗

Anti lockdown protests covered on Itlaian News but not the Telegraph
Scontri a Londra tra polizia e manifestanti anti-lockdown – See more at:

154355 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Ben Shirley, 6, #28 of 2191 🔗

PETER HITCHENS: Boris’ great idea? Burn down the house TWICE to get rid of a wasps’ nest, then stand in the ruins and blame everyone but himself for this futile catastrophe

154356 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Ben Shirley, 2, #29 of 2191 🔗

What kind of a country have we become when arrogant bullying is seen as the proper function of Ministers? Ex-Supreme Court judge LORD SUMPTION denounces No10’s rule of muddle and authoritarianism


158272 ▶▶▶ Iansn, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #30 of 2191 🔗

whatch newsnight from MOnday and see a cnut o a prof from Sage tell Sumption we cant have democracy during ther plandemic as we cant overrule the scienctists bstards . I have no words

154358 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Ben Shirley, #31 of 2191 🔗

MADNESS! We’ve Lost Our Minds! Birmingham – they are posting testing kits through you letterbox

154360 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Ben Shirley, 2, #32 of 2191 🔗

Did Dominic Raab Just Admit 93% of Tests are Inaccurate? | Carl Vernon

154362 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Ben Shirley, 2, #33 of 2191 🔗

“NHS staff carry out Coronavirus tests at a testing facility in Bracebridge Heath, Lincoln ”
She’s wearing a cheap plastic visa and paper mask made that costs nothing from Amazon and are made in cheap Asian sweatshops. They won’t stop her passing or receiving the virus

Sterile face mask production in India

154364 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Ben Shirley, 19, #34 of 2191 🔗

Ross Clark -wrote this in February and he was right then
Coronavirus and the cycle of panic
It is the latest phenomenon to fulfil our weird and growing appetite for doom
From magazine issue: 29 February 2020
Coronavirus and the cycle of panic

If you have just cancelled your trip to Venice and ordered your £19.99 surgical face mask from Amazon, how about this for a terrifying vision: by the time we get to April, 50,000 Britons will have succumbed to a combination of infectious disease and adverse weather. Frightened? If you are, don’t worry: you survived. It was two years ago. In 2017-18 the Office for National Statistics recorded 50,100 ‘excess winter deaths’. The explanation, according to the ONS, was probably ‘the predominant strain of flu, the effectiveness of the influenza vaccine, and below average winter temperatures’.

Coronavirus (Covid-19) is a pretty virulent virus all right, but not in the way you might imagine. It is less our respiratory tracts it has infected than our inner sense of angst. By last Monday there were 79,331 confirmed cases worldwide, all but 2,069 of which were in China. There have been 2,595 deaths in China and 23 elsewhere in the world. And seasonal flu? According to an estimate by the US-based Center for Disease Control and Prevention, it has caused between 291,000 and 646,000 deaths globally a year. To put it another way, if the number of deaths from coronavirus rises a hundredfold in the next few weeks or months, it will only have reached the lower bound of the estimate for existing strains of flu.

How many of us wear face masks because of winter flu? How many planes and trains are cancelled? Does the stock market slump? There is some justification for being more wary of Covid-19 than the flu. The former is an unknown quantity and we don’t yet have a vaccine. But we know more about it by the day. Its death rate is now around 1 per cent or less and it is mostly killing people with pre-existing health conditions; anyone else would be unlucky to die from it.

Coronavirus hysteria occurs because we confuse precaution with risk. We see Chinese cities being cut off, people being quarantined, factories closed, the streets emptying (save for a few people in face masks) and we interpret this as a sign of grave and imminent danger. If China had not taken such dramatic steps to stop the disease, we wouldn’t be half as worried.

There seems to be a distinct strain of Sino-phobia in our attitude towards infectious disease. Every novel disease that comes out of China instantly seems to gain the description ‘pandemic’ — even when diseases such as Sars and H5N1 avian flu hardly justify being called an ‘epidemic’. Covid-19 seems to fit neatly with our fears about Huawei spying on our phones and Chinese manufacturers stealing our jobs. Diseases from elsewhere don’t excite the imagination nearly so much. There was a brief flurry of concern in 2014 when Ebola, vastly more lethal than Covid-19, emerged in West Africa (it has since killed 11,310 people globally). But if we are going to worry about any infectious disease, it ought to be tuberculosis. The World Health Organization reports there were ten million new cases worldwide in 2018, 1.45 million deaths, and 4,672 cases in England. But no one ever bought a face mask because of that. How many people even know that the epicentre of tuberculosis is India, with 27 per cent of cases globally?

There is something more to the Covid-19 panic. It is the latest phenomenon to fulfil a weird and growing appetite for doom among the populations of developed countries. We are living in the healthiest, most peaceful time in history, yet we cannot seem to accept it. We constantly have to invent bogeymen, from climate alarmism, nuclear war and financial collapse to deadly diseases. Covid-19 has achieved such traction because it has emerged at just the right time. At the end of January, Brexit had just been completed without incident. The standoff between the US and Iran — which preposterously led the ‘Doomsday Clock’ to be advanced closer to midnight than during the Cuban missile crisis — fizzled into nothing. The Australian bush fires, which caused an explosion in climate doom-mongering (even though the global incidence of wildfires has fallen over the past two decades) had largely gone out. What more was there to worry about?

Then along came a novel strain of disease and the cycle of panic began again. But there are already strong signs that it has peaked. In the seven days before 24 February, the WHO recorded 6,398 new infections in China — down from 13,002 the previous week. On Monday it was 415. Very soon we are going to have to find another thing to agonise about. Asteroids? The next ‘freak’ weather incident, now the storms have died down? Who knows, but we will certainly find something.

Ross Clark

154464 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #35 of 2191 🔗

Sir Patrick Vaccine
I love your name 🙂

154370 ▶▶ annie, replying to Ben Shirley, 4, #36 of 2191 🔗

Cheeky Sais pinching a Welsh tune!
But fine lyrics.

154465 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to annie, #37 of 2191 🔗


154398 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to Ben Shirley, 1, #38 of 2191 🔗

Very nice.

154529 ▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to Ben Shirley, #39 of 2191 🔗

Can we read this out on the Podcast? Excellent work!

154585 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 4, #40 of 2191 🔗

You must sing it. Preferably with a cast of masked Zulus threatening you in the background.

155207 ▶▶▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to matt, 1, #41 of 2191 🔗

Haha! I’ll try.

154711 ▶▶▶ Ben Shirley, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 4, #42 of 2191 🔗

I’m flattered you’ve asked. Please do feel free. As Matt says, better yet if you can find some chorally-minded Welsh soldiers to belt it out.

155208 ▶▶▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to Ben Shirley, #43 of 2191 🔗

Thanks very much! I’ll try to find some…!

155265 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Ben Shirley, #44 of 2191 🔗

Not more than 6 mind.

154883 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ben Shirley, #45 of 2191 🔗


155122 ▶▶ Snake Oil Pussy, replying to Ben Shirley, #46 of 2191 🔗

What’s the tune?

155198 ▶▶▶ Ben Shirley, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, 1, #47 of 2191 🔗

Men of Harlech

154300 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 4, #48 of 2191 🔗

Second I guess.

154409 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to Achilles, 1, #49 of 2191 🔗

You were second but looks more like 12th!

154301 Splendid Acres, replying to Splendid Acres, 43, #50 of 2191 🔗

I’m bloody incensed, folk. Had to write to my MP again.

Dear My MP

Today, I read the following from leaked documents regarding the current government’s Operation Moonshot programme.

Here’s the link to the BMJ article https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3558

Are there any plans to get the public on board?

The documents show that there have been discussions over how to incentivise people to be tested. They point to enforcing testing “via a sanction-based model” or through “offering individuals opportunities/access from being tested,” such as being able to attend events.

What is a digital passport?

Testing for access to certain spaces features heavily in the documents, with reference to “immunity/virus free passports,” likely to be available through an app. The plans say that testing could be used to “give people assurance that, at least for a limited time, they are unlikely to have the virus and are at low risk of transmitting it to others.”

They say, “A negative test result (or potentially a positive antibody result) may inform not just whether you could attend an in-patient appointment, but if you go to work that day, access a venue, get on a flight or visit an elderly relative.” The documents also point to a “significant expansion” of testing funded and delivered by the private sector, such as in football stadiums to allow access.

Do the documents acknowledge any concerns?

Yes, although not in great detail. In reference to the non-PCR tests, it is repeatedly noted that “new types of test are likely to be less accurate [than PCR], introducing some level of risk.”

This means, in effect, there will be no education, no job, no health care, no travel, no visiting one’s relatives, and absolutely no freedom to engage in any culture or sport in any way unless one submits to medical testing at all times.

I would very much like to know how this will be “funded and delivered by the private sector”. Do we all have to pay for numerous tests? How will the government ensure those tests are accurate and what percentage of false positives will be acceptable to the government, considering a positive test will put people’s lives on hold? I would be interested in any answers to these, should you have any.

I also have a polite request: please vote for the repeal of the Coronavirus Act 2020 this week, so all future decisions are subject to scrutiny by yourself and fellow MPs, just as they should be.

With thanks,

154312 ▶▶ sam, replying to Splendid Acres, 5, #51 of 2191 🔗

another incentive is the ONS is offering £450 to people to get repeat tests!
Particalarly attractive to those with no jobs and sudents!

156260 ▶▶▶ JamieKM, replying to sam, 1, #52 of 2191 🔗

I think those are home tests, so take the money then stick the swabs in pots of sterilised water to test it. Let them see the proportion of positive tests reducing.

154349 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Splendid Acres, 32, #53 of 2191 🔗

My issue would not be the cost or reliability but the fact that it has no place in a free society. There are umpteen other diseases and viruses that are far more of a risk to health, TB and HIV for starters, and no such restrictions have rightly ever been imposed on the freedom of an individual to interact in society, even down to your right to access healthcare. This is clear coercion and cannot be accepted, end of. I did read that astrazenica were also involved in manufacturing tests, someone or people are making a shed load of money from this and I am not referring just to the companies.

154351 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Nsklent, 2, #54 of 2191 🔗

A worker in an upmarket retail jewellery shop tells me they have never been busier, probably buying it for the gold.

156443 ▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to karenovirus, 1, #55 of 2191 🔗

Gold may well be the new cash.

154420 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Splendid Acres, #56 of 2191 🔗

I saw this – is it real?

154563 ▶▶▶ Splendid Acres, replying to CGL, 4, #57 of 2191 🔗

Yup, follow the link. It’s obviously in theoretical stage and I don’t think it is in any way workable with the government’s current lack of technology and ability however, that’s not the point, it it?

154596 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Splendid Acres, 3, #58 of 2191 🔗

“Delivering testing at the scale and level of ambition set by the prime minister is likely to mean developing, validating, procuring, and operationalising testing technology that currently does not exist,” the plans state.

Oh dear.

154603 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Splendid Acres, 2, #59 of 2191 🔗

Not workable for now, perhaps. But it will be if they plug away at it as they intend to.

154651 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to stewart, 3, #60 of 2191 🔗

Well, I’ve written elsewhere about the effects of false positives on mass testing. It is proposed to develop a new technology, one which does not currently exist, and build enough of it to test 10 million people a day.

That’s 50 times the current testing rate. Even with the technology in existence, and in commercial production, it took Baroness Harding just under six months to achieve a 30-fold increase in test capacity, and the current level of testing has clearly hit a ceiling (I don’t know what the constraint is, but there’s clearly no headroom left on something).

So we’re going to invent a new test, which doesn’t exist yet even in theory, and which we will then roll at four times the rate of acceleration that we’ve managed so far, and which will be free from whatever constraints there are on the current system, such as trained staff and laboratory space.

I don’t say that’s impossible. But I do say that it’s not guaranteed.

154684 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Richard Pinch, 6, #61 of 2191 🔗

Here’s what I wrote earlier about the false positive rate. Bear in mind that the as-yet-uninvented test has no known false positive rate. But in the context of mass testing, SAGE estimated 41% of the population receiving a false positive in 6 months. On the basis of weekly testing, that reverse engineers to a 2% false positive rate. It seems inconceivable that a mass testing programme in which unsupervised untrained members of the public take their own samples could do any better than careful lab-based analysis of samples taken by trained personnel, and likely a lot worse. (A GOS report assigns almost all of the FPR to the difficulty of performing the test under operational conditions). At current prevalence (0.1% ONS), the evidential value of current tests is around 3%, which is useless.

Is this a sellable proposition as government advice? Take a test. If it comes back positive, go into isolation and send us another test. You need another test because there’s a 97% chance you went into isolation needlessly If that’s positive, stay in isolation, because there’s now an evens chance you’ve really got it.

Not the most convincing of stories. Every day, of the 15 million people tested, 10,000 will be true positive, and another 290,000 will be told to go into isolation and then let off when their next test comes back negative. So each day we’ll be educating hundreds of thousands of people not to believe in the test.

Double testing is interesting, by the way, as it depends very heavily on whether the reasons for the false positive are correlated. If there’s no correlation, then a double positive has a current evidential value of 55%, which isn’t bad, but still means that it’s a coin toss whether it’s true positive or not.

Let’s think a bit about how this is going to work out in practice.
What happens when you test positive? You isolate yourself, say for a fortnight. Possibility A: somebody pays for you to stay at home for a week, whether your employer or the state. Result: on day 1 everyone declares a positive result and the country enjoys a fortnight holiday courtesy of the magic money tree (until the supermarkets close down). Possibility B: nobody pays for you to stay at home and your job/business is at risk. Result: on day 1 nobody declares positive, and we carry on as before having wasted £100B.

Either way, in the absence of some form of checkup and compulsion, most people will do what’s in their own interest. If there’s some sort of check, people are going to get very creative very quickly about faking results. For example, suppose I test positive and get a paid holiday. For the price of a drink, I’ll take your test, so you get one too. Alternatively, I test negative so I’ll take yours and you’ll be able to go to work and keep your job or your business.

Are any of these what we want?

155129 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #62 of 2191 🔗

…. in the absence of some form of checkup and compulsion, most people will do what’s in their own interest.

Surely the compulsion will be via the inevitable “covid passport” app on your phone?

155336 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #63 of 2191 🔗

Hard to see how the app can tell that you actually took the test as opposed to giving it to your neighbour, your dog or indeed just running it under the tap. It can only work if you have to attend in person with photo-id at an official testing station once a week.

Let’s see how that works. It took a trained nurse about 5 minutes to give me my test. Ten million tests a day, say one million hours, needs at least 120,000 trained staff. There are 500,000 nurses in the UK.

Assume that each test centre can handle 30 people simultaneously: think of your favourite supermarket. That’s 3,000 test centres, which is slightly less than the number of Tesco branches.

So the government needs to set up the equivalent of a new supermarket chain, and train up to 200,000 staff, or alternatively close down a quarter of the NHS to staff them.


155344 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #64 of 2191 🔗

PS: Forgot to say, there are of course 1200 hospitals in the UK. Perhaps each of those can cope with people arriving at the rate of one every 3 seconds for tests.

156291 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Richard Pinch, #65 of 2191 🔗

Totally unworkable,but that is the intention.What is feasible is that you are vaccinated with whatever they can concoct .These results become part of your digital identity and you prove it by an app or a tattoo which is embedded in your skin so you can partake in everyday life.All technology which is available now and this is what we are being conditioned to accept now with masks,apps scans to enter
Shops offices etc

154666 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Splendid Acres, 1, #66 of 2191 🔗

I saw it reported somewhere that govt will not pay. The public have to see it as part of the cost of doing things, like paying for a theatre ticket.

154780 ▶▶ PaulH, replying to Splendid Acres, 3, #67 of 2191 🔗

“funded and delivered by the private sector”

That’s corporate speak for us.

Forced to hand over money to crony businesses by their friends in government. Easy money if you can get it.

154800 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to PaulH, 3, #68 of 2191 🔗

“The leaked documents reveal a heavy reliance on the private sector to achieve the mass testing and give details of “letters of comfort” that have already been signed with companies to reach three million tests a day by December. Firms named are GSK for supplying tests, AstraZeneca for laboratory capacity, and Serco and G4S for logistics and warehousing .”


GSK being GlaxoSmithKlein of ‘Quids in’ Vallance fame.

155007 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Kevin 2, 1, #69 of 2191 🔗

Vallance and Whitty and Ferguson…..

155135 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Kevin 2, 1, #70 of 2191 🔗

And the companies are ……. Ta-Dah!
No surprises there then!

154303 Sally, replying to Sally, -4, #71 of 2191 🔗

I wouldn’t be pinning any hopes on Vitamin D. The sort of people who are vulnerable to SARS-CoV-2 are more likely to be deficient in Vitamin D, so the fact that people who contract severe Covid are deficient in the vitamin signifies nothing. Also Vitamin D has been tried as a treatment or preventative for numerous different conditions over the past 5-10 years, since it has become a fashionable silver bullet, and to my knowledge it hasn’t been shown to be useful for any of these conditions.

154305 ▶▶ Sally, replying to Sally, 22, #72 of 2191 🔗

And it case it’s not obvious, we don’t need “silver bullets” like Vitamin D or HCQ to end lockdowns and get back to normal life.

154386 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to Sally, 2, #73 of 2191 🔗

Odd! – not your comment but that you got down to 5 downticks .

154782 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Sally, 8, #74 of 2191 🔗

Not sure why you would bash Vitamin D. Optimal Vitamin D level is critical for good health. It helps to improve your immune system, that thing that protects you from viruses, bacteria, pathogens etc and many other critical functions.

However, starting to take vitamin D when you get sick will not make you healthy the next day

154829 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Sally, 2, #75 of 2191 🔗

“I wouldn’t be pinning any hopes on Vitamin D. The sort of people who are vulnerable to SARS-CoV-2 are more likely to be deficient in Vitamin D, so the fact that people who contract severe Covid are deficient in the vitamin signifies nothing.”

Doesn’t it signify that people should be taking more Vit D, and that the Govt should be encouraging them to do so?

154949 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Kevin 2, 2, #76 of 2191 🔗

Excellent article on Vit D on Dr Malcolm Kendricks blog.
He is of the view that Vit D can be very beneficial.

155278 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Kevin 2, #77 of 2191 🔗

Sunshine for vitamin D, the way nature intended, or God if you prefer.

156124 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to karenovirus, 1, #78 of 2191 🔗

Indeed, however if you live in the frozen north, the sun is too weak Oct to March to give you that, hence Vit D levels at their lowest in Brits / Skandis in April.

154979 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Sally, 2, #80 of 2191 🔗

Modern food production tends to denude the end product of many essential nutrients, and many pestcides and insecticides have obvious detrimental effects on human physiology, as well as imbalanced nutrition, sedentary lifestyle etc..P’raps “organic” is best, as are other targeted supplements to help balance the deficiencies. As individuals re. optimum health one size never fits all.

155143 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sally, #81 of 2191 🔗

Shown how?
RCTs? Who funded them?
Big Pharma gains no megabucks from vitamins.

154306 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 19, #82 of 2191 🔗

Decolonisation is pure racism.

154337 ▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 20, #83 of 2191 🔗

Nothing has changed they were a bunch of commie cunts when I was a student over 30 years ago.

154308 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 21, #84 of 2191 🔗

A good break-down of how the NHSX social distancing app works.

Anybody noticed how the mental 2 meter rule has been revived with vigor? It’s because the 2 meter rule is all about this app. They dropped the 2 meter rule to 1m+ it when the first iteration of the NHSX tanked.

Now in a desperate bid to launch the app the bastards have fired up the stay 2 meters apart thing again with a new found passion. Without social distancing this their new app would be even more useless.

154324 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Two-Six, 8, #85 of 2191 🔗

My Nokia is even older than the one pictured. Recieved my instructions to download the app from NHS tracing, but sadly it can’t.
Is it legal for my GP (a private business contractor) to pass my contact details to a third party ?

On this Android I have only 2 contacts, a business partner and my internet provider.

154377 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to karenovirus, 10, #86 of 2191 🔗

Is it legal for my GP (a private business contractor) to pass my contact details to a third party ?

I thought exactly the same thing.

154583 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #87 of 2191 🔗

Probably yes, as far as the NHS is concerned, unless you opted out in writing a few years ago.

154619 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to JohnB, 2, #88 of 2191 🔗

I really tried to opt out but my surgery made it impossible to do so.

155651 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Two-Six, #89 of 2191 🔗

Mine made it quite difficult. Pretending not to understand, giving false info, etc.

154470 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to karenovirus, 5, #90 of 2191 🔗

The app won’t work on your phone. Yes it is probably legal for the NHS to sell all your data to who ever wants it. They will have some nice looking privacy bollocks to justify it but your data is all about CASH. Piles of it, Available to any scamming bunch of lying evil idiots who want to abuse your privacy for their own gain.

154629 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Two-Six, 4, #91 of 2191 🔗

‘your data is all about CASH. Piles of it, Available to any scamming bunch of lying evil idiots who want to abuse your privacy for their own gain’.
That is to say, US health care providers. That’s what a Brexit US trade deal is about. Access to your health data by the US healthcare industry. The most expensive in the world.

155168 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bruno, #92 of 2191 🔗

That’s why, despite my serious reservations about the EU, I was against Brexit.
Opens us up to US food and ag policy too. Shudder!

155289 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Two-Six, #93 of 2191 🔗

I didn’t give my details to the NHS, I gave them to their contractor, my GP Surgery but, as JohnB notes, I should have contracted out.

155037 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to karenovirus, 3, #94 of 2191 🔗

We’ve now ‘downgraded’ to a 2G phone and, of course, we also got the text yesterday. What a shame we can’t download it. 😉 I can’t remember exactly but I think the NHS was obliged by the Govt to hand over our personal data as part of the tyranny but maybe someone could confirm this. We’re considering changing our number and not telling them.

Have 10 million people really downloaded the app? Silly Miriam, of course they have. Our posties never wear masks but a Royal Mail parcel van came today and the young driver was wearing a ‘buff’ thing over his face.

The circuits classes were due to re-start this week. Postponed sine die , of course. And we’re off to Zombie City shortly to do a bit of shopping. We saw Morrisons’ despicable ad last night on catch-up TV with those poor staff posing in black underpants. Horrible! We’re looking at ways not to use them after today which probably means using the useless Coop more. MW

155158 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to karenovirus, 1, #95 of 2191 🔗

Is it legal for my GP (a private business contractor) to pass my contact details to a third party ?

It probably wasn’t before the Cabinet coup.

154341 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Two-Six, 9, #96 of 2191 🔗

So you can scan a QR code to ‘check in’, then delete the app data or uninstall the app, then re-install and do the same the next time you can’t be bothered to argue with some idiot at the door to somewhere? All with bluetooth off, and no trace is left of you?

Assuming the goal is to actually contact people with COVID, isn’t the pen and paper method actually more effective?

154440 ▶▶▶ sky_trees, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 1, #97 of 2191 🔗

You can delete all QR data from within the app at the press of a button. Also disable bluetooth tracking; or delete all people it’s scanned, again at the press of a button. It’s really privacy conscious, actually.

That data only gets used if an alert gets sent out about a positive case, then your phone matches it up to places you’ve visited or people you’ve been near.

154443 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to sky_trees, 2, #98 of 2191 🔗

Is all data stored on the phone, or is there a central repository?

154446 ▶▶▶▶▶ sky_trees, replying to matt, 3, #99 of 2191 🔗

It’s all stored on the phone.

154447 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to sky_trees, 1, #100 of 2191 🔗


154482 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to sky_trees, 4, #101 of 2191 🔗

How does it know when you leave a site? What if I went to a cafe for an early coffee and then went home. Hours later an ‘infected’ checks in to same cafe. Would I get an alert despite no crossover? Not that I am going to download the app but surely these questions need answering?

154550 ▶▶▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to Sarigan, 1, #102 of 2191 🔗

It doesn’t know when you left. That’s the fatal flaw. The contact data is deleted at midnight. So if you went in at 8am that would be 16 hours of potential contacts. So, yes, you would probably get an alert. What isn’t clear to me is how or if the app correlates the Bluetooth beaconing with you having scanned the QR code with other BT beacons present at the same time with the same QR code.

155183 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to The Filthy Engineer, #103 of 2191 🔗

This is why there’s talk of having a QR code for your house.
Gets more sinister by the day!

155672 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cheezilla, #104 of 2191 🔗

Lots of room for ‘improvisation’ by the neighbourhood scallies …

154636 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sarigan, 1, #105 of 2191 🔗

It doesn’t’. Currently your contacts list is re-set at midnight every day. So if you went into a pub for breakfast at 7:30 am and left at 8:30am then at 11:30pm Mr Corona staggers into the pub with his app bleeping out that he is positive and should be staying inside for 14 days YOU will be contacted to isolate for 14 days too or at least you would be flagged and warned to check for any symptoms as you have been in contact with an infected person.

I think this is how it works.

154630 ▶▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to sky_trees, 1, #106 of 2191 🔗

Indeed it is, that’s why I find it so strange that they seem to be so keen on it. Am I correct in my understanding that businesses are being pushed to get people to migrate over to this app as opposed to giving contact details?

They’ve done nothing up to this point to make me believe that they care about privacy or personal choice, but this app makes it very easy to exercise both. It makes me suspicious!

154941 ▶▶▶▶ Philip Baynes, replying to sky_trees, 3, #107 of 2191 🔗

What I’ve done in the last few days is walk in, confidently wave my phone over the qr code, pretend to scan it and then sit down and get served.
(I haven’t downloaded the app of course and never will).
No questions asked.
Presumably premises have no way of telling whether I actually scanned it or not, short of inspecting my phone?
Or do they?

155187 ▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Philip Baynes, 2, #108 of 2191 🔗

Perfect solution. The other method is to turn off Bluetooth. The app can’t function without Bluetooth, so go into the settings for the app (if for any reason you have to download it – why would you, FFS?) and check the app isn’t allowed to access Bluetooth OR LOCATION on your phone. End of problem.

Pretending to scan the code is probably the very best option, I give my details manually (with a fake phone number), but I will be using this fake scanning method in future.

155477 ▶▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Philip Baynes, #109 of 2191 🔗

In my local they can tell if you have scanned yourself in using the QR code. As they know I won’t do it and hell will freeze over before I download the ridiculous APP they happily take my name, which they know anyway, and I give them a wrong phone number, simples…

154691 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 1, #110 of 2191 🔗

Businesses who use the paper option have to destroy the piece of paper after 21 days.
Does the information stored by the App by NHS get destroyed after 21 days?

155177 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 2, #111 of 2191 🔗

I understand that once you’ve scanned in a code, the app doesn’t change your location till the next QR scan.
You could be theoretically trapped in Morrison’s for eternity ……

155528 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Cheezilla, #112 of 2191 🔗

God forbid….

154346 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Two-Six, 5, #113 of 2191 🔗

I did read that was the purpose of the 2 metre rule shortly after it was introduced; nah, crazy conspiracy theory thought I.

154374 ▶▶ annie, replying to Two-Six, 42, #114 of 2191 🔗

If social distancing works, why face nappies? If face nappies work, why social distancing? If neither works, why bother?

154375 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 16, #115 of 2191 🔗

From what I’ve seen people wearing masks seem to think that it exempts them from social distancing, not that it bothers me.

154473 ▶▶▶▶ Bob, replying to karenovirus, 13, #116 of 2191 🔗

It exempts them from having a brain

154476 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Bob, 12, #117 of 2191 🔗

It exempts them from empathy, it exempts them from being human. It exempts US from living any kind of normal life.

155190 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to karenovirus, 1, #118 of 2191 🔗

Well that was the “logic” behind the 1m+ rule, so they got half the message.

155193 ▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to karenovirus, 4, #119 of 2191 🔗

No, this is good; it’s another excuse to bash the Karens. If anyone wearing a muzzle says to me that I’m too close to them, my response is “You can have a 2 metre gap or you can have a 1 metre gap with a muzzle, not both.” This immediately doesn’t compute in their tiny brains as they’ve seen the 1metre+ crap so they think I’m right.

Anything to muddy the waters…

154472 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to annie, 10, #120 of 2191 🔗

It’s all not about controlling a virus.

154412 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Two-Six, 4, #121 of 2191 🔗

I thought Bluetooth was old school and out of fashion but interesting that everyone walking around with wireless headphones or using the hands free in their cars have to use Bluetooth, the headphones have been getting more fashionable the past couple of years. Coincidence???

154479 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to stefarm, 2, #122 of 2191 🔗


154765 ▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Two-Six, 2, #123 of 2191 🔗

Most rigorous study on the technical limitations and problems associated with Bluetooth LE (low energy) proximity detection.


“We report on measurements of Bluetooth Low Energy(LE) received signal strength taken on mobile handsets in avariety of common, real-world settings. We note that a key difficulty is obtaining the ground truth as to when people are in close proximity to one another. Knowledge of this ground truth is important for accurately evaluating the accuracy with which contact events are detected by Bluetooth LE. We approach this by adopting a scenario-based approach. In summary, we find that the Bluetooth LE received signal strength can vary substantially depending on the relative orientation of handsets, on absorption by the human body, reflection/absorption of radio signals in buildings and trains. Indeed we observe that the received signal strength need not decrease with increasing distance. This suggests that the development of accurate methods for proximity detection based on Bluetooth LE received signal strength is likely to be challenging. Our measurements also suggest that combining use of Bluetooth LE contact tracing apps with adoption of new social protocols may yield benefits but this requires further investigation. For example, placing phones on the table during meetings is likely to simplify proximity detection using received signal strength. Similarly, carrying handbags with phones placed close to the outside surface. In locations where the complexity of signal propagation makes proximity detection using received signal strength problematic entry/exit from the location might instead be logged in an app by e.g. scanning a time-varying QRcode or the like.”

Full report and technical analysis:-


Take home message. Metal surfaces (trains, tubes etc.supermarkets) reflect and extend BT range. Stud partition walls don’t block signal.

Apparently a pair of tin cans and 20m of string was rejected, because of its zero false positive rate.

The combination of the app, and Operation Moonshine should ensure that the majority of the population who circulate in society will no longer be circulating in society by about Feb 11th.

The only section of society who are unlikely to be much affected by mandatory self-isolation measures are those who don’t go out much.

155209 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Kevin 2, #124 of 2191 🔗

Good one, that is exactly what I was thinking about.

154554 ▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to stefarm, 2, #125 of 2191 🔗

I’m not sure what point you are trying to make. BT is a ubiquitous short range data communication protocol currently at version 5.2. It was never intended to provide a ranging function based on the received signal strength.

154572 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to The Filthy Engineer, 1, #126 of 2191 🔗

My point is there are more people using Bluetooth for the new fashion of using wireless headphones, a Trojan horse to introduce Draconian tracking devices that rely on Bluetooth, using Bluetooth is now the norm for many people, easy to update phone with new software without the average person knowing.

154601 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to stefarm, 4, #127 of 2191 🔗

Meh. Bluetooth is a useful, short range radio standard. Getting rid of the need to have things connected to each other physically is a positive, on balance. T&T is attempting to hijack it, but in doing so is 1) not using it for its actual purpose and 2) trying to use functionality that doesn’t actually exist. I’m not sure there’s any more sanity in theorising that the fashion for wireless headphones has been softening us up for the test and trace app than there is in suggesting that Covid is caused by 5G

154702 ▶▶▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to stefarm, 2, #128 of 2191 🔗

If you are that paranoid; BT is the least of your worries. GPS, mobile phone tower affiliation and good old Ethernet with its unique Media Access Control Address can all be correlated to give a very accurate fix of your position. There are apps that routinely do this (although Apple iOS does at least try to mitigate some of the the most egregious examples of this) as part of their telemetry.

Always keep in mind: How does the developer make money? If the app is free you are very likely to be the product.

154591 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Two-Six, 3, #129 of 2191 🔗

That’s what I understand especially if it’s using 5G to tag phones, that needs 6 ft separation between phones to get a good fix and not get confused or it just lumps all phones in the 6ft circle as one.

Will try an find the technical papers I read a few months go about this.

154614 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Awkward Git, #130 of 2191 🔗

5G doesn’t have much to do with it yet. Tagging is done with blue tooth.

155199 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Two-Six, 1, #131 of 2191 🔗


154313 sam, replying to sam, 22, #132 of 2191 🔗

At the trafalgar Square protest, the riot police suddenly swooped on everyone at 3pm and broke up the rally.
They were very aggressive and attacked a few of the participants.
Some went ont to Hyde Park where the police arrested a German doctor who had been scheduled to speak
They didn’t say what the cahrges were and took him to Wandsworth prison where he was only released the next day after 22 hours.

154325 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to sam, 23, #133 of 2191 🔗

Congratulations to all the heroes who attended and well done for staying calm in the face of politically motivated police provocation.

“Shame on you” precisely the correct response.

155014 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to karenovirus, 7, #134 of 2191 🔗

Staying calm – you won. Well done. Really messed with the police control plans for the day.

70 year old ladies with baton bruises. You won. Respect to all.

154338 ▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to sam, 10, #135 of 2191 🔗

Fucking wankers

154315 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 11, #136 of 2191 🔗

I’m like a broken record in comparing this whole episode to the Inquisition. Below are some quotes I found on the subject. Before you read on, consider how the current fear that pervades through our society is not of a virus but of the punishment that may be meted out if people do not bow to the threat it is alleged to pose:

“The Inquisition was created to establish unrestrained rule over the poor, frightened population. The most effective means of achieving this was robbery and the annihilation of all those who aspired to bring light into the darkness of the Middle Ages—those who were too independent, who dared to talk about the General Good, who protested against this kingdom of the devil, personified in the representatives of the Inquisition. The establishment of the Inquisition was a horrible caricature of Divine Justice.”
— Helena Roerich , Letters I, (8 September 1934)

“That is the idea — that we should all be wicked if we did not hold to the Christian religion. It seems to me that the people who have held to it have been for the most part extremely wicked. You find this curious fact, that the more intense has been the religion of any period and the more profound has been the dogmatic belief, the greater has been the cruelty and the worse has been the state of affairs. In the so-called ages of faith, when men really did believe the Christian religion in all its completeness, there was the Inquisition, with all its tortures; there were millions of unfortunate women burned as witches; and there was every kind of cruelty practiced upon all sorts of people in the name of religion.”
― Bertrand Russell, Why I Am Not a Christian and Other Essays on Religion and Related Subjects

“It comes from history. It comes from the record of the Inquisition, persecuting heretics and torturing Jews and all that sort of stuff; and it comes from the other side, too, from the Protestants burning the Catholics. It comes from the insensate pursuit of innocent and crazy old women, and from the Puritans in America burning and hanging the witches — and it comes not only from the Christian church but also from the Taliban. Every single religion that has a monotheistic god ends up by persecuting other people and killing them because they don’t accept him. Wherever you look in history, you find that. It’s still going on.”
― Philip Pullman

“Maybe you who condemn me are in greater fear than I who am condemned.”
― Giordano Bruno

“The accused were considered guilty unless proven innocent.”
― Nancy Rubin Stuart, Isabella of Castile: The First Renaissance Queen

154340 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #137 of 2191 🔗

The Inquisition was established to identify Moslems and Jews who had converted to Christianity but who secretly continued the rites of their earlier faith.
So perhaps when the Health Passport thingey is up and running one will be instituted to track down those who seek to subvert it.

154414 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to karenovirus, 6, #138 of 2191 🔗

Actually, the inquisition was often launched against sects like the Cathars – Christians who taught heretical creeds such as “it is possible to worship without bishops” and “women are the equals of men” along with a gnostic perception of Christianity where the New Testament was akin to an ancient mystery religion with stories not intended to be taken literally (they viewed Jesus as largely allegorical).

There was also a political motive in wiping out the Cathars, as it brought the Languedoc under the French crown for the first time since the rule of Charlemagne.

155223 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Andrew Fish, 1, #139 of 2191 🔗

Paul was a gnostic, whereas Peter the liar, who didn’t understand Jesus’ teachings, went on to found the Church of Rome. Go figure!

We are definitely heretics!

154383 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Nobody2020, 9, #140 of 2191 🔗

Pullman says:
Every single religion that has a monotheistic god ends up by persecuting other people and killing them because they don’t accept him.

Pullman is a very bitter, petty, wannabe ‘woke’ man who just tweeted on the appointment of Moore and Dacre:

BBC, Ofcom, etc: this is a culture war, sure enough. I know which side I’m on, and I want to see the enemy wiped out.

Hmm. Perhaps he needs to look in the mirror…

Boris Johnson is also fond of writing erudite prose on freedom, etc. But his true nature is something different,

154385 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #141 of 2191 🔗

Snitchers were at the very heart of the Inquisition, both its early phase of identifying false Conversos and latterly witches when they need another form of activity to justify their existence.

154437 ▶▶▶ Graham, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #142 of 2191 🔗

He can’t write either. To say “monotheistic god” is absurd pleonasm.

154609 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Graham, 2, #143 of 2191 🔗

pleonasm – my word of the day ! 🙂

154486 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Nobody2020, 7, #144 of 2191 🔗

I pointed out to an ex-friend of mine that collective hysteria is a “thing”, though I used a more recent example. I got back a reply questioning my sanity. End of friendship.

155228 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, 2, #145 of 2191 🔗

Another one bites the dust.

154316 sam, replying to sam, 15, #146 of 2191 🔗

2 German school girls have died thought to be because they are forced to wear masks all day long

154517 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to sam, 2, #147 of 2191 🔗

That is a very powerful video. It’s worth sharing, if you have any friends or family left to share it with.

154575 ▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to sam, #148 of 2191 🔗

I give it a couple of hours before you tube pulls the video

154645 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to The Filthy Engineer, #149 of 2191 🔗

Its still there. I wonder how long it will stay there for.

154635 ▶▶ Jem, replying to sam, #150 of 2191 🔗

Can you share a link to this as I can’t find any info on Bing?

154710 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to sam, 3, #151 of 2191 🔗

Please remember, cause of death has not been established. That the masks were involved is a theory right now!
We have to be careful to stick to facts!

155036 ▶▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to Silke David, 2, #152 of 2191 🔗

I hear what you are saying, but the amount of people that I have seen who are really struggling with the damn things across their face makes me so angry. I went to a pub on Friday, we were greeted at the door by the landlady, a middle aged plump woman who seemed to be gasping almost!. I was asked about a mask and just shook my head and she took us to our table. I am stopping going out and spending my money, nothing is enjoyable any more and I usually end up angry and in a row with hubby.

154330 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 4, #153 of 2191 🔗

From the roundup.
Kenan Malik names Toby as part of a ‘right wing cabal’ that have taken over the anti lockdown debate before admitting that left have not been in that space before repeating some of the anti-authoritarian points many have been making here for months, come and join us Kenan, every sceptic welcome.

He does mention that 242 Statuary Instruments have been dictated under Coronovirus legislation. Can anyone confirm that as Secondary Legislation none of these can override Statute Law, my rights under Disability Discrimination for example or indeed Human Rights in general ?

154372 ▶▶ bucky99, replying to karenovirus, 4, #154 of 2191 🔗

Seems he loves a face mask though

154379 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to karenovirus, 9, #155 of 2191 🔗

I think the reality is that whatever rights we have the virus hoo-haa ha swept away the mechanisms for doing anything about them. As reported yesterday a lady was asked by a pub to write down her medical condition to justify being exempt from wearing a face mask. This may well be illegal under disability/equality legislation but there’s nothing you can do about it, in the current virus febrile atmosphere i doubt any official body would or could take up a case. Even Simon Dolan with all his money is having to battle to get his case to court, what chance do we have?

I am afraid that living as we now do in the mad world of covid hysteria many of our rights and entitlements have been effectively swept away.

154382 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #156 of 2191 🔗

I’ll be standing up for my rights if they try it out on me but I would like clarification in case of interactions with the Police.

154418 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to karenovirus, 5, #157 of 2191 🔗

The provisions of the Equality Act still stand and no SI has yet overridden an existing law. If there is a conflict (and there very probably will be conflicts) between laws introduced this year by SI and preexisting law, it would be for the courts to decide how the conflict should be resolved.

If you have a raft of law produced in a short period of time and not examined by parliament, you will inevitably end up with badly drafted law (quite frankly, even laws that go through the parliamentary process can end up being badly drafted). It’s inevitable.

154964 ▶▶▶▶ Old Bill, replying to karenovirus, 2, #158 of 2191 🔗

I think you misspelled a word there karenovirus. What you will need after an interaction with the Police is ‘hospitalisation’ not clarification.

155311 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Old Bill, #159 of 2191 🔗

My bad 😷

154620 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to karenovirus, 3, #160 of 2191 🔗

He does mention that 242 Statuary Instruments have been dictated under Coronovirus legislation.

Surely BLM will be pulling them down shortly ? 🙂

154626 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to karenovirus, 3, #161 of 2191 🔗

It really is common this.

Someone who has started to be a little sceptical having previously seen lockdowns as essential and masks as medicine, while labelling all tbise against such views as anti vax facists, now makes tentative moves out of their box.

However, they still want to retain their most virtuous opinions as they put their neck on the line. A climbdown would be too painful. So they look for a way out. However, this is a folly because their logic and reasoning is already fundamentally wrong.

To think that they can now be sceptic but still call others right wing authoritarians for having aired the same views much much earlier, can’t of sustained. It’s not about left or right. It’s about fundamentals beyond your petty politics.

These right wing facists as you wish to see them are fighting for you, not against you.

155318 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #162 of 2191 🔗

I think you might be shooting the messenger but perhaps I misunderstand you.

154331 keith, replying to keith, 18, #163 of 2191 🔗

I suspect there must be a fair number of people who, like me, visit this site as a welcome source of information and antidote to the constant stream of hysteria around this virus found elsewhere, but who do not subscribe to the wider politics of people such as Toby Young.

When the first thing you see is a plug for Laurence Fox’s new ‘party’ it does tend to put you off. Of course, it’s your site so you can include whatever you like, but do you want a wide readership or not? Might be best to stick to what unites people opposed to lockdowns, whatever political background they are from.

154336 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to keith, 20, #164 of 2191 🔗

I don’t give a toss about politics – it’s all a charade to me – but it’s good to hear that someone wants to stand up against the woke mob and push back against their lunacy.

I would imagine it’s quite the challenge to produce an informative and intellectually stimulating blog day in day out, and there’s probably a few days here and there where you’re scraping the barrel for some content…maybe this is one of those days?

154638 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Eddie, 3, #165 of 2191 🔗

Or maybe TY’s real passion is free speech, so he puts it in here because there is a fair bit of overlap.

In any case, surely we are not all expecting to agree 100% with everything we read? That’s a bit sad, isn’t it?

154700 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to stewart, 2, #166 of 2191 🔗

‘Or maybe Toby Young’s real passion is free speech’ – except when the Guardian criticises the government for ordering schools not to use educational material that expresses a desire to end capitalism. Like wot the Labour Party and trade unionism have, at different times in history. (Source – DfE guidance issued Thursday.)
‘ How easy it is to lose a country, to slip surreptitiously into totalitarianism… Imagine an educational system that banned schools from…teaching resources dedicated to..writers like William Morris, Iris Murdoch, Thomas Paine, even. Well you don’t have to. Boris Johnsons government has just instructed schools to do exactly that.’

154400 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to keith, 1, #167 of 2191 🔗

I agree with Fox’s stance on wokeness but any new party involving Farage, even if it is anti lockdown at its heart, would have me running for the hills. I just skim over anything pro Farage, or pro Brexit, I read here, and there isn’t much of it thankfully.

154456 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to The Spingler, -3, #168 of 2191 🔗

Dumbest comment of the day already

154494 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Biker, 6, #169 of 2191 🔗

Followed by yours, Biker? I mean, someone expressing their opinion is dumb? We certainly get a lot of incoherent strings of angry opinions from you. I say that in the most loving way possible.

People are entitled to skim over anything on this site that they find of little interest or are annoyed by. I’ve come to be entertained by much of what you say, so have stopped skipping your screeds.

154719 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to ConstantBees, #170 of 2191 🔗

Are people not also entitled to get annoyed and let off a bit of steam now and again?

Maybe “grow a pair” and stop taking it so personally?

154830 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to ConstantBees, 3, #171 of 2191 🔗

just get used to Biker. He (or she??) is the site’s tame Rotweiller who takes no prisoners.
Seriously though the comments do go off piste occasionally and can be sarcastic, cynical and sometimes quite humorous but they are used as a safety valve .
And not every one will agree with every point of view.

155327 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to mjr, 1, #172 of 2191 🔗

Made me feel a bit special when Biker had a pop at me for being insufficiently rude about my Labour MP shortly after I’d joined LS.

154642 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to The Spingler, 9, #173 of 2191 🔗

I am not pro-Brexit, never have been, but if Farage throws himself behind a non-lockdown party, I’m right behind him 100%.

155561 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to stewart, #174 of 2191 🔗

Farage was very much pro lockdown from the start through the summer.
If he had been in charge, he would have locked down and crushed discussion and free speech even more heavily- see other right wing parties attitudes, particularly when in opposition, like in Sweden.
I have no illusions about the authoritarian tendencies of the left or right.

155718 ▶▶▶▶ Jane Harry, replying to stewart, #175 of 2191 🔗

I agree, we can’t be too fussy about our bedfellows – Farage, David Icke, Piers Corbyn…god, I’d even take Hitler or Stalin if they came back from the dead and came out on our side….. for me it’s a binary question: freedom -vs- tyranny, which side are you on? I don’t care about anything else.

154413 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to keith, 4, #176 of 2191 🔗

But what branch of politics is responsible for the lockdowns? Where does the hysteria come from? Who is propagating the most egregious propaganda?

I’m just wondering who it is that the web site should be lobbying for change. There is, presumably, a correlation between lockdown mania and political persuasion.

At a fundamental level it’s about freedom. Who represents a desire for freedom, and who represents the opposite?

154504 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Barney McGrew, 7, #177 of 2191 🔗

Exactly. The government is nominally on the right, having been voted in as a Brexit party. The Guardian is nominally on the left. Neither seems to represent freedom (or intellectual honesty or the ability to understand science).

I don’t think there is a correlation between political persuasion and lockdown mania. I have no idea who we should lobby for change. The biggest change required is in people’s own minds, and they are not usually amenable to “lobbying”.

154427 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to keith, 11, #178 of 2191 🔗

Toby also mentions the British Library’s current lunacy above which does have some connection to the current crisis, however tenuous and its to do with upper middle class technocrats reasserting their authorities to tell us Ordinary Joes and Janes that they know what’s good for us. They can’t accept the fact that they have been defeated time and again but they still keep coming back.

Laurence Fox setting up a new party is one way of pushing back against these technocrats to remind them that its the people who are sovereign not them.

154442 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to keith, 3, #179 of 2191 🔗

I suppose we could do a survey. How many ‘left’ and ‘right’-leaning people can we find on SAGE and in the media who are pro-mask and pro-lockdown. And how many are against. I suspect it’s a pretty strong correlation between pro-lockdown and ‘left’.

You’ll have no trouble finding people like mask maniac ‘Professor’ ‘Trish’ Greenhalgh who even has #BLM in her twitter name and openly posts anti-Trump and anti-Boris stuff despite her professional position and pretensions to being a scientist.

154483 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #180 of 2191 🔗

Possibly, but this kind of thing risks alienating people who consider themselves “left” who are very much anti lockdown

Maybe better to steer clear, for now, interesting as it is

154509 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Julian, 1, #181 of 2191 🔗

I guess you’re right, but I’m not anti-left – I’m just an observer who seems to be spotting certain patterns. Maybe Toby sees Laurence Fox as an actual way for lockdown scepticism to leave these pages and actually have some influence in the real world – although I think LF seems to be steering clear of Covid.

154797 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 1, #182 of 2191 🔗

I’ve always disagreed with this approach because I think an “apolitical” approach is ultimately, unfortunately, unrealistic. And in terms of influencing the government, a credible threat from their right that can keep them out of power not by winning seats themselves (a massively tall order for any new party under fptp), but by taking enough votes from them to let their opponents win seats, is much more dangerous to them. Ultimately, that’s why they caved to UKIP/Brexit Party.

Ideally there would be a similar anti-coronapanic party on the left as well threatening Labour in its marginal seats, and the two would not contest the same seats.

155428 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, #183 of 2191 🔗

You make some good points
Depends if you see the primary function of any anti-lockdown party as frightening the Tories or as a focal point to change public opinion. If it’s the latter, something more politically neutral may be better. I still believe if public opinion was moving anti-lockdown then it would be much easier for the govt to shift in the right direction
Just thinking how far £5M would go in a massive information campaign to counteract govt propaganda

154488 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Barney McGrew, 8, #184 of 2191 🔗

So as a left wing person, I am responsible for other people’s opinions if they identify as being on the left? This is rather like making me responsible for other people’s illnesses, which I thought was part of the point of being a lockdown sceptic.

This is Toby’s site, so he can ride any hobby horse he likes, but his commitment to free speech does mean that us lefties can object to things if we like. However, I prefer it when we stick to topics that are actually relevant to lockdown scepticism.

154501 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to ConstantBees, -3, #185 of 2191 🔗

So what is the left wing case for lifting lockdown? ‘Libertarian’ is seen as a dirty word, but it does pretty much describe the anti-lockdown case. I’m genuinely curious how the left can frame a cry for freedom and liberty without it being seen by their comrades as ‘far right’ – because that’s the association they have created.

154589 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #186 of 2191 🔗

I’m more right than left, but the left’s case for ending lockdown would be similar to the right’s wouldn’t it – by any reasonable measure, the response is way worse than the danger of the virus?

154727 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Julian, 2, #187 of 2191 🔗

Correct, which is why many on the left read and write here – if rather less stridently and defensively than some identifying as ‘on the right’.

154803 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Bruno, #188 of 2191 🔗

Just as “stridently and defensively”, in some cases, allowing for the numbers difference.

154878 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Julian, 7, #189 of 2191 🔗

With respect I think the position we find ourselves in means that this is a sterile argument. The most important thing is freedom. Once freedom is established we can debate how best to organise society based on policies which may be of the left or the right, or a mixture of both.

But without freedom we have nothing, and life is not worth living.

155092 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to charleyfarley, #190 of 2191 🔗

Why don’t self-professed left wing people ever summarise their position in a few sentences? Instead – in this forum at least – there seems to be some embarrassment “Best not talk about it. We just want to lift lockdown, OK..?”

Laurence Fox represents a political force i.e. he might actually get somewhere, and his values seem to be compatible with finding the lockdown repugnant. (But I don’t actually know what he thinks about it)

If there’s a similar, overtly left wing leader/organisation I think we would be very interested to know about it. I did raise the concept of ‘Blue Labour’ here a while ago – and received a very negative reaction, although again without anyone wanting to say why.

155095 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #191 of 2191 🔗

I am left-wing and libertarian… we seem to be a dying breed.

155431 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Tee Ell, 2, #192 of 2191 🔗

I find left wing/right wing very confusing

Wikipedia says:
Generally, the left wing is characterized by an emphasis on “ideas such as freedom, equality, fraternity, rights, progress, reform and internationalism” while the right wing is characterized by an emphasis on “notions such as authority, hierarchy, order, duty, tradition, reaction and nationalism”.

Which makes me left wing. But I believe in a small state and freedom and personal responsibility. And I have consequently always voted conservative (apart from that one time in the 1990s when I voted Lib Dem)

154981 ▶▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, #193 of 2191 🔗

Currently at -3… what was wrong with my question? Am I just imagining the BBC, Guardian, Huffington Post etc. always linking ‘scepticism’ (they would always put it in quotes and follow it with a 😉 ) with the ‘far right’?

Am I imagining articles like this?
How coronavirus has brought together conspiracy theorists and the far right

If this is typical of left wing thought, I am genuinely interested in how a left wing case can be made for lifting the lockdowns.

155112 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #194 of 2191 🔗

For people less interested by the libertarian angle specifically, the argument might be:

  • These measures disproportionately impact the poor – they’ll cause starvation for millions in other parts of the world.
  • While pubs for “normal people” are shut, they’re still open in parliament.
  • These measures are disproportionately impacting certain “ethnic minorities”, as shown in deaths figures.
  • All the numbers show that the divide between rich and poor has increased during this time.
  • The harsh local lockdowns have often been in poorer or “ethnically diverse” areas – Bradford, certain areas of Birmingham etc. Coincidence?
  • They’re allowing supermarkets to stay open, thus helping big chains and promoting home delivery for those services that have the infrastructure to support it, while footfall in small businesses has fallen massively.
  • The “working classes” (doctors, delivery drivers etc.) have had to keep working and keep putting themselves at risk, while the rich sit at home in safety.
  • The working classes weren’t allowed out, and were discouraged from going to parks etc… while the rich chilled out in their gardens.

I think the reason for the downvotes is probably that “the left” you’re referring to aren’t really “the left” – they’re the virtue signalling Guardianistas who have no real idea what “the left” is.

I remember once upon a time, “devolution” was a valid left-wing view. If I try floating that idea with some of my “left wing” friends now – shot down instantly.

155689 ▶▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #195 of 2191 🔗

I don’t object to lockdown on libertarian grounds, I object to lockdown because it is completely illogical and will lead to millions more deaths than it saves.

154721 ▶▶ John P, replying to keith, 1, #196 of 2191 🔗

“Of course, it’s your site so you can include whatever you like”


154332 karenovirus, 2, #197 of 2191 🔗

From the roundup

“Warning of 50,000 cases a day likely to be wrong”. *Link appears to be broken.*

I wanted to ask if there is so much testing going on why the following?

1). A person with severe underlying conditions that puts them in top priority for getting tested cannot book a test either now or in the near future. This person continues to work in-office within the Track’n’Trace system and says ‘testing has no capacity’.

2). A member of staff at a private children’s home for the severely physically disabled has tested positive. No tests are available for the resident children who instead are being forced to individually self isolate. Some of them have little or no ability to communicate.

154333 optocarol, replying to optocarol, 13, #198 of 2191 🔗

Anyone would think it was only the British who ever had colonies – what about France, Germany, Portugal etc etc?

154339 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to optocarol, 8, #199 of 2191 🔗

Or Russia, the USA, China and Islam which still do.

154469 ▶▶ Ghastly Oik, replying to optocarol, 5, #200 of 2191 🔗

I wish the Normans would go home.

154542 ▶▶▶ Ghastly Oik, replying to Ghastly Oik, 6, #201 of 2191 🔗

Today is the day the Normans landed at Hastings and England became a Norman colony. The Normans eventually took over Wales, Scotland and Ireland. I think it kind of weird that almost nobody seems to recognise that England was the first place to be colonised. Although I suppose you could argue that Normandy itself was colonised by the Normans, who were Vikings at that time.

154748 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Ghastly Oik, 2, #202 of 2191 🔗

I think the Romans got here first 🙂
– sorry, scrub that – plenty more migrations in pre history.

154943 ▶▶▶ Old Bill, replying to Ghastly Oik, 1, #203 of 2191 🔗

Of course the Normans invented ‘the harrying of the North’.

Nearly a thousand years passed before Johnson and Sturgeon simultaneously thought “Ooh! That’s a good idea”

154992 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Ghastly Oik, #204 of 2191 🔗

The Norman Yoke

154598 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to optocarol, 4, #205 of 2191 🔗

Look…like I already said at a middle class dinner part on Saturday( and got a lot of dirt y looks)..You cannot fucking decolonize a country that was the colonizer !!How fucking hard is to understand that. The process of decolonization has only ever historically taken place in places that were colonized ( Africa, Indonesia etc) which in essence means getting rid of buildings, statues and laws that the colonizers have imposed .

Jesus Christ…their parents are paying thousands of pounds for their kids to end up complete ,morons.I have a niece that has finished a very prestigious university and have had to put her wokenes in check a couple of times when she was visiting. They teach them this shot and they they think they are right without any further evidence..

154812 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Thomas_E, 1, #206 of 2191 🔗

and have you noticed that most of the countries that were colonies (particularly UK colonies) have maintained most of the trappings of colonisation.. The institutions (parliament, civil service etc etc) buildings .
And then of course, many make a mess of independence (or turn in to tribal war zones (eg Ruanda, Zimbabwe)) and ultimately end up as colonies of china due to the indebtedness they have, In some countries now the debt to China is 25% of GNP.

154641 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to optocarol, 3, #207 of 2191 🔗

There is a pointlessness to revisionism in action. Yes, you can teach that history was full of bad people, you must. But also that you are not that history, no need to feel guilty or required to rectify it, or feel angry about it, or feel offended, or expect that others owe you something because of it.

154335 Eddie, replying to Eddie, 36, #208 of 2191 🔗

There was a sad day for me this past week. I went out with a mate and he put a mask on as we walked down the street towards the store we had planned on visiting. We had done this same routine many times over the past few months without masking up and I couldn’t even bear to look over directly at him. I saw it all happen in my peripheral vision and a little part of me died inside. Oh well, at least I have you folks to feel connected to even though I live many thousands of miles away.

154345 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Eddie, 3, #209 of 2191 🔗

Defund him

154393 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Eddie, 14, #210 of 2191 🔗

Depressing isn’t it. A friend of mine posted a photo of herself on Facebook yesterday wearing a mask outside and also keeps posting things about how she is looking forward to the day there is a vaccine plus encouraging everyone to get the flu vaccine now and saying we’d be negligent not to get the flu vax.

I know I have to avoid meeting her in real life until all this is over (if it’s ever over) because we’d end up no longer being friends. In her defence she does have a serious life limiting condition and had been shielding but even so I just don’t want to get into an argument with her.

154527 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Eddie, 2, #211 of 2191 🔗

So far I haven’t seen any of my old friends wearing the nappy. But then I have studiously avoided the town center and the shops since face nappy day. I dread the day I see my old mates doing it. Yes another part of me will die inside too.

154755 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Two-Six, 7, #212 of 2191 🔗

As a woman who does not mask, I find it shocking that men do this………

I mean MEN??

154784 ▶▶▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to Kate, 3, #213 of 2191 🔗

Totally get it Kate. Can almost see a Monty python sketch coming on. Come on manly men, rip that mask off and join the other manly men! There are a lot of woosy men round here I can tell you.

154863 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Girl down Under, 2, #214 of 2191 🔗

Yep, they should MAN UP!

Moral courage is evenly divided across the sexes.

I have been impressed by the prominent role women have taken in this battle. Anna Brees, for instance.

I suppose we women will get written out of history again, once the history of these times comes to be written……I hope it does get to be written…..just think what will have occurred if this history never is recorded.

155221 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Kate, #215 of 2191 🔗

What you find it shocking that men don the nappy or like me avoid the zombies?

155225 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 2, #216 of 2191 🔗

I feel like a coward for avoiding the shops but honestly it is better for my own safety that I avoid the masked up masses. It will not end well. That’s for sure. I will get arrested.

155417 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Two-Six, #217 of 2191 🔗

To be fair on the men, they know they are more likely to be in for aggression if they don’t comply. Women may be a bit safer.

155436 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Kate, 1, #218 of 2191 🔗

Do you think? I am not sure about that – remember that oaf berating the small woman on tube. Bullies like to pick on people smaller than them.

155726 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jane Harry, replying to Two-Six, 2, #219 of 2191 🔗

same here, I’ve avoided all indoor public spaces for the past 6 months, because I can’t take all the fannying around with masks and social distancing. it just makes my blood run cold.

154616 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Eddie, #220 of 2191 🔗

Can’t you have a word? You know, get him to see the foolishness of his ways?

154342 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 12, #221 of 2191 🔗

My favourite taxi driver tells me that it is now the law that I wear a mask while in his cab, I point out that I am mask exempt, he points out that he is not a policeman.
So all seems well until he tells me that I am required to use the rear seats. I’ve not sat in the back of a car since voluntarily being taken to a police station (and back because vindicated) 10 years ago. Made me feel like a naughty child.
Sorry mate, Shanks’ pony for me now.

154344 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to karenovirus, 5, #222 of 2191 🔗

Defund him

154348 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cecil B, 1, #223 of 2191 🔗

I will be though it’s not his fault.

154359 ▶▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to karenovirus, 1, #224 of 2191 🔗

Yea it is, tell him to grow a pair

154367 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cecil B, 1, #225 of 2191 🔗

He had already told me that he wouldn’t bother about me not wearing a mask but he would be snitched on by fellow cabbies if I were to use the front seat, neither of us know where that instruction came from.

154368 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to karenovirus, 3, #226 of 2191 🔗

I refer you to my previous answer. Defund him. He will change his mind when there is no food on the table

155808 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to karenovirus, 1, #227 of 2191 🔗

That is the thing, he has a license and a livelihood to protect and there are plenty of toddlers about who would, I am sure delight in dobbing him in. Isn’t it frightening how easily we have become a nation of snitches.

154399 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to karenovirus, 3, #228 of 2191 🔗

I usually sit in the back – does that make me weird?

154422 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #229 of 2191 🔗

I also sit in the back.

154460 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #230 of 2191 🔗

Not at all, it’s just personal preference.

154544 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to karenovirus, 6, #231 of 2191 🔗

I had an interesting chat with a cabbie the other night, who was really mask rabid. Turns out he’d called the council for advice on mask exemptions and was advised to refuse anyone claiming exemption!

154697 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to PoshPanic, 1, #232 of 2191 🔗

Ooh, ooh, which council ?

155338 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to JohnB, 1, #233 of 2191 🔗

That’s like the council advising him to refuse a guide dog, astonishing or the cabbie is a liar.

155727 ▶▶▶ Jane Harry, replying to PoshPanic, #234 of 2191 🔗

actually I don’t really have a problem with that. it’s his cab. he’s entitled to take or leave who he likes.

154343 Cecil B, 13, #235 of 2191 🔗

Up early

Fancied full English breakfast. Tried to order but was told it would need a Statutory Instrument. They refused to get a parliamentary draughtsman out of bed this time of the morning so could I come back later

The full Scottish can only be taken whilst seated, and when supervised by two people from internal security. An extra sausage (titter ye not) is available but they are held in a vault under Holyrood and no-one knows who’s got the key

The Welsh is the same as the English but arrives three weeks after being ordered

Can’t be asked, I’ll just cut off a couple of my fingers and stick them in the George Forman

154347 BobT, replying to BobT, 7, #236 of 2191 🔗

There has recently been a rise in positivity from the PCR tests concurrent with the rise in the number of tests carried out. This could be because of the changing demographic i.e. previously untested young people being tested due to return to school, university or work but I wonder if there is another reason?

It is known that the SARS COV2 virus is detectable by PCR in a non viable form in sewage, wastewater and even tap water and this could be a source of cross contamination in the sampling.

But what about the unintended escape of lab waste? Each vial of positive lab waste (one test) contains over 1 Trillion amplified strands of SARS COV2 DNA. If, hypothetically, these one Trillion strands from one single vial were distributed over the whole land area of the UK (242,000 Km2) there would be 1 detectable strand of DNA per 0.24 square metres. (I would appreciate any challenges to my maths!).

My hypothesis is that fragments of unviable but detectable virus strands are available everywhere to cross contaminate samples which could explain the rise in positivity?

154350 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to BobT, 5, #237 of 2191 🔗

Bit like ‘explosive residues’ being detectable on most old banknotes and playing cards in casinos.

154538 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to karenovirus, 3, #238 of 2191 🔗

And Cocaine, how traces of it can be found EVERYWHERE, especially in the bogs at the Houses Of Parliament.

154556 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Two-Six, 2, #239 of 2191 🔗

Hence why the HOC bar can stay open after 10pm

154388 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to BobT, 2, #240 of 2191 🔗

I like it. And there’s this:

Billions of viruses swept up on dust particles and in water droplets carried around the world and deposited on every square metre of land every day. When I first saw this, I was wondering whether a country like New Zealand could really stay isolated forever – but most of these viruses will be ‘dead’, of course.

However, your point about PCR testing sounds very relevant.

154408 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #241 of 2191 🔗

Six to twelve times a year it can be seen as a reddish dusting of sand on cars, comes from Libya apparently.

154541 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to karenovirus, 1, #242 of 2191 🔗

It’s the Ashes blowing over, after we burned Libya to the ground.

154536 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to BobT, 1, #243 of 2191 🔗

WOW, I can’t help with the maths, obviously but this is a very interesting way to look at things. Coroni is literally absolutely EVERYWHERE all the time…Who Knew?

154769 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Two-Six, 2, #244 of 2191 🔗

I did, after a week without close human contact, took friend out in car for meal, (restaurant doing the spacing but no masks) one week later, got a cold. These viruses are everywhere and inescapable. Scotland WILL get infected, hope they’ve spent the last 6 months gearing up.

154357 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #245 of 2191 🔗

What kind of a country have we become when arrogant bullying is seen as the proper function of Ministers? Ex-Supreme Court judge LORD SUMPTION denounces No10’s rule of muddle and authoritarianism


154381 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #246 of 2191 🔗

Daily Mail commenters well up to speed. Some of the most disliked are clearly faked to get the old blood pressure up.

154361 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, -4, #247 of 2191 🔗

There is nothing worse than groups of full of shit students talking at the top of their voices in pubs

Keep them in Nicola’s concentration camps

They have only been there a week and are already trying to bum free beer

154477 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Cecil B, 2, #248 of 2191 🔗

There is nothing worse than people riding the bus without a mask on.
Keep them in concentration camps
They have only been there a week and are already insisting on riding the bus wherever they want.

Attack one, attack all.

154363 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #249 of 2191 🔗

“NHS staff carry out Coronavirus tests at a testing facility in Bracebridge Heath, Lincoln ”
She’s wearing a cheap plastic visa and paper mask made that costs nothing from Amazon and are made in cheap Asian sweatshops. They won’t stop her passing or receiving the virus

Sterile face mask production in India

154369 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 6, #250 of 2191 🔗

Indeed, Surgeons wear visors to stop themselves getting splattered with gore from major blood outages, not to protect from itty bitty virus.

154546 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to karenovirus, 4, #251 of 2191 🔗

Anybody who wears a visor to stop Coroni IS INSANE.

154770 ▶▶▶▶ trees, replying to Two-Six, 4, #252 of 2191 🔗

My other half wears a visor purely as she’s been told she has to wear a face covering or face a disciplinary, she wasn’t about to wear a mask all day and knows the futility of the visor but she can’t afford to risk losing her job. It’s totally ridiculous on so many levels!

155234 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to trees, 4, #253 of 2191 🔗

so sorry for her. really.
This is one horrible situation.

154975 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Two-Six, 1, #254 of 2191 🔗

Big time. So many of the masked who want to still remain open to exemptions I have heard ask that such people should instead wear a visor. Just to make them feel safe. They’ve got it into their heads that anyone breathing will be risk.

Seen one such friend share this:


So I looked at it. She hadn’t read it at all and assumed the headline was recommending visors. It does the opposite.

And when I looked at the Mater Hospit studies on masks, it’s making the same unsupported inferences that many other studies have done. They take effects seen in the lab to mean that masks are massively effective at preventing viral transmission (droplets = virus according to them) but then forget that it takes 100% compliance all the time everywhere to get an effect. Which is why going from lab to society is such a crucial misstep.

Even more so, when we have such low spread, the actual number of prevented infections would be minute, could only be enforced with heavy handed policies. As people don’t want to wear them, hence the mandates.

The whole masks debate is so divisive

155566 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Two-Six, #255 of 2191 🔗

In Italy, an adjustable visor the size of a mask, or a translucent adjustable mask, is now quite popular.
I guess it’s their way to show the authorities the middle finger….

154754 ▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #256 of 2191 🔗

and here is another one from melbourne!

154365 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 13, #257 of 2191 🔗

Ross Clark -wrote this in February and he was right then
Coronavirus and the cycle of panic
It is the latest phenomenon to fulfil our weird and growing appetite for doom
From magazine issue: 29 February 2020
Coronavirus and the cycle of panic

If you have just cancelled your trip to Venice and ordered your £19.99 surgical face mask from Amazon, how about this for a terrifying vision: by the time we get to April, 50,000 Britons will have succumbed to a combination of infectious disease and adverse weather. Frightened? If you are, don’t worry: you survived. It was two years ago. In 2017-18 the Office for National Statistics recorded 50,100 ‘excess winter deaths’. The explanation, according to the ONS, was probably ‘the predominant strain of flu, the effectiveness of the influenza vaccine, and below average winter temperatures’.

Coronavirus (Covid-19) is a pretty virulent virus all right, but not in the way you might imagine. It is less our respiratory tracts it has infected than our inner sense of angst. By last Monday there were 79,331 confirmed cases worldwide, all but 2,069 of which were in China. There have been 2,595 deaths in China and 23 elsewhere in the world. And seasonal flu? According to an estimate by the US-based Center for Disease Control and Prevention, it has caused between 291,000 and 646,000 deaths globally a year. To put it another way, if the number of deaths from coronavirus rises a hundredfold in the next few weeks or months, it will only have reached the lower bound of the estimate for existing strains of flu.

How many of us wear face masks because of winter flu? How many planes and trains are cancelled? Does the stock market slump? There is some justification for being more wary of Covid-19 than the flu. The former is an unknown quantity and we don’t yet have a vaccine. But we know more about it by the day. Its death rate is now around 1 per cent or less and it is mostly killing people with pre-existing health conditions; anyone else would be unlucky to die from it.

Coronavirus hysteria occurs because we confuse precaution with risk. We see Chinese cities being cut off, people being quarantined, factories closed, the streets emptying (save for a few people in face masks) and we interpret this as a sign of grave and imminent danger. If China had not taken such dramatic steps to stop the disease, we wouldn’t be half as worried.

There seems to be a distinct strain of Sino-phobia in our attitude towards infectious disease. Every novel disease that comes out of China instantly seems to gain the description ‘pandemic’ — even when diseases such as Sars and H5N1 avian flu hardly justify being called an ‘epidemic’. Covid-19 seems to fit neatly with our fears about Huawei spying on our phones and Chinese manufacturers stealing our jobs. Diseases from elsewhere don’t excite the imagination nearly so much. There was a brief flurry of concern in 2014 when Ebola, vastly more lethal than Covid-19, emerged in West Africa (it has since killed 11,310 people globally). But if we are going to worry about any infectious disease, it ought to be tuberculosis. The World Health Organization reports there were ten million new cases worldwide in 2018, 1.45 million deaths, and 4,672 cases in England. But no one ever bought a face mask because of that. How many people even know that the epicentre of tuberculosis is India, with 27 per cent of cases globally?

There is something more to the Covid-19 panic. It is the latest phenomenon to fulfil a weird and growing appetite for doom among the populations of developed countries. We are living in the healthiest, most peaceful time in history, yet we cannot seem to accept it. We constantly have to invent bogeymen, from climate alarmism, nuclear war and financial collapse to deadly diseases. Covid-19 has achieved such traction because it has emerged at just the right time. At the end of January, Brexit had just been completed without incident. The standoff between the US and Iran — which preposterously led the ‘Doomsday Clock’ to be advanced closer to midnight than during the Cuban missile crisis — fizzled into nothing. The Australian bush fires, which caused an explosion in climate doom-mongering (even though the global incidence of wildfires has fallen over the past two decades) had largely gone out. What more was there to worry about?

Then along came a novel strain of disease and the cycle of panic began again. But there are already strong signs that it has peaked. In the seven days before 24 February, the WHO recorded 6,398 new infections in China — down from 13,002 the previous week. On Monday it was 415. Very soon we are going to have to find another thing to agonise about. Asteroids? The next ‘freak’ weather incident, now the storms have died down? Who knows, but we will certainly find something.

Ross Clark

154373 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 3, #258 of 2191 🔗

Ross Clark appears to be a very prescient individual. He might have mentioned that the reason Ebola is so scary is that it kills just about everyone it touches in a very nasty way but that is also why it is a rubbish disease in that it soon runs out of victims. The only reason it sometimes gets individuals in the West is because of our interventions there.
PS’ avoid Madagascar, they still have the Black Death/Plague there.

154366 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 3, #259 of 2191 🔗

Lockdowners V. Libertarians.
Britain’s new Divide.
Guardian 27/9/20

Very fair summary of the current debate (framed as 50-50) and the main players on each side listing politicians, the media and scientists main positions and the lockdown policies/results of various nations though that part is a bit lockdownista biased.

154401 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to karenovirus, 3, #260 of 2191 🔗

Well the guardian has always believed only the state can solve this so called crisis (Benito Mussolini Doctrine of Fascism)

154458 ▶▶ Julian, replying to karenovirus, 5, #261 of 2191 🔗

To steal once more an observation from Hitchens, I am not a libertarian, I just think that the measures are disproportionate. That’s a perfectly defensible POV and one that I suspect many hold. “Libertarian” is often used as a smear, like “conspiracy theorist”. It’s all part of the plot to politicise opposition to the nonsense.

154471 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to karenovirus, 7, #262 of 2191 🔗

I can’t bear to read Guardian articles any more (former Guardian reader), but I am obviously not a “lockdowner” nor am I a “libertarian”. But I have been feeling largely invisible, except for the hate stares pointed at my maskfree face on the bus.

154371 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 21, #263 of 2191 🔗

They are good at beating up peaceful, defenceless old women on Trafalgar Square, but run away in Brixton and Tottenham

The moral of the story?

154376 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cecil B, 7, #264 of 2191 🔗

Defund the Police ? 😃

154622 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Cecil B, 7, #265 of 2191 🔗

Violence works.

There is a good reason why the government insists on a monopoly of it.

154378 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 5, #266 of 2191 🔗

The Guardian: Too many children are being tested for Covid, says leading expert.

154384 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #267 of 2191 🔗

Probably to ramp up the close schools or close the pubs (which I think is called a false dichotomy).

154466 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to karenovirus, 3, #268 of 2191 🔗

Whitty did say we can’t have both a few weeks ago,before schools reopened

154403 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Tom Blackburn, 11, #269 of 2191 🔗

That is being driven by the schools. A slight temperature get a test. A slight cough or sore throat get a test. Either that or they send to GP and then ask the GP for a letter before child can return to school. GP responds by saying they will send a letter to the school in return for £50 (standard charge for private letter not covered by NHS). No more requests for letters! Also there’s a tendency for my colleagues to advise a test for children presenting with temperature etc. without a full differential being considered.

154454 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to p02099003, 2, #270 of 2191 🔗

Yes, a couple of my acquaintances’ have been asked by schools to get a test for their kids

154380 Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 5, #271 of 2191 🔗

I think it was Two-Six who posted an article further down the page, explaining how the T&T app works.

It seems too easy to be true that you can use the app to scan QR codes at venues, then just delete the app data or uninstall the app to avoid being traced or notified at all. This is less intrusive than being asked for a phone number!

What are they up to? I don’t think they’re this incompetent, nor do I believe they care about privacy or choice.

154387 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 6, #272 of 2191 🔗

According to the DM “Users of the NHS contact tracing app are not covered by the new rules. They are anonymous and the Government cannot force them to self-isolate.”

So those who are not opposed to downloading the app in the first place still need pay no attention to any alerts. For now.

154391 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Charlie Blue, 9, #273 of 2191 🔗

The DT report “But many users complained that they had received alarming messages from the app, saying they may have been exposed, even though they had not left the house since installing it.”

Surely anyone in that situation will delete permanently.

154390 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 7, #274 of 2191 🔗

I think that today sees the start of mandatory self isolation or risk a fine. I guess that for people that have had a test there are documents to confirm that they have had a +ve test. But I understand this system extends to contacts? Does that mean contacts will be sent a formal notice requiring them to self isolate and that there will be an official register of contacts who have received such orders?
Ideally there should be some mechanism of challenging being identified as a contact if you believe it to be false or malicious but i suspect that in the mad world of covid no such checks are available?

Am I correct that being tested is voluntary? If so we need to continue to spread the word, do not get tested, it is not compulsory, do not download the app, consider what you are going to put down under contact details if asked and when answering the phone do not give your name first and if they say NHS test and trace put on a fake accent and pretend to be the local take-away.

154633 ▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #275 of 2191 🔗

Just don’t reply any unknown phone numbers

154798 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to JulieR, 3, #276 of 2191 🔗

And ensure you give a gender neutral name, Constant Lambert sounds nice, an address abroad, and a phone number with appropriate foreign country dialling code, preferably the same as one of those numbers that call to tell you to top up your non existent Amazon Prime account with £39.99.

154757 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #277 of 2191 🔗

I agree with can anyone challenge it. The possibility that the “infected” person was in the premises hours apart from a person notified and therefor there is no risk, can the person contacted ask the T&T operator more questions to establish their risk? Or, will these questions be answered?
I do not think the T&T operator will have that information, or we are in a scary world.

154389 annie, replying to annie, 38, #278 of 2191 🔗

Do you sometimes get the feeling that you are standing with your finger in a hole in the dyke that is holding back a vast deluge of utter evil?
Don’t take your finger out.

154394 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to annie, 27, #279 of 2191 🔗

For me, before this ‘crisis’ I thought that democracy via established mechanisms meant we would never get a tyrannical government. How naive I was! I always knew that ‘the people’ could not be relied upon for rationality (witness Princess Di’s funeral), but I never thought that the top of government would work in a kind of hysterical symbiosis with them to create a full-on, proper dystopia in a matter of months.

154395 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to annie, 11, #280 of 2191 🔗

It took many years for the Berlin wall to come down, we have seen in recent years how corrupt and evil leaders are able to cling on to power against all the odds. All is not lost and things may yet turn.
We must push our MPs to vote for the amendment requiring parliamentary scrutiny of Covid legislation this week.
Even Hapless Hancock can see that dodgy test results are not enough to keep fuelling the madness and he has predicted an exponential rise in hospital cases. Well we had got to quite a low figure and so to start with it did not take much for hospital case numbers to double, but now they are higher it will need an ever greater daily increase to maintain the % rise in hospital cases. I think this week will be quite crucial to showing whether all these dodgy test results are actually resulting in more hospital cases/deaths.

154425 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #281 of 2191 🔗

Local hospital went from 0-1 for several weeks, up to 5 over the weekend, proper ill who knows?
Anyone know about anywhere else?

154453 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to karenovirus, 3, #282 of 2191 🔗

Well, clearly going from 1 to 5 was a 400% increase – lockdown now! /sarc

154397 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to annie, 7, #283 of 2191 🔗

Yes, Annie, I do. Just read the headlines about how Al Johnson is going to defy Tory rebels. Surely, they must prevail, surely.

154743 ▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to annie, 3, #284 of 2191 🔗

We won’t take our fingers out, Annie, it is evil what is happening. Sadly some really good people believe the mumbo jumbo. Don’t download the app. It is a con. If you bring your phone into your home you dont want this on it.. I am extremely dubious. I will no longer have a test. Realistically there are about 2 seriously ill people in NSW. That word again ‘complacency’ from our nervous premier. When will they leave us alone.

154810 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Girl down Under, 4, #285 of 2191 🔗

‘When will they leave us alone’ – well if people switched off their Alexas it would be a start.

156145 ▶▶ Lili, replying to annie, 1, #286 of 2191 🔗

A brilliant description. It’s exactly how I feel.

154396 6097 Smith W, replying to 6097 Smith W, 16, #287 of 2191 🔗

I notice we are back to full covid theatre at the weekend, queues outside supermarkets and empty ambulances being driven around with sirens on.
Not fooling us this time
Actually I wasn’t fooled last time either

154411 ▶▶ Nic, replying to 6097 Smith W, 8, #288 of 2191 🔗

Your right I remember being in halifax in april only traffic on the road were ambulances with sirens blasting now I know it was fake

154438 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to 6097 Smith W, 6, #289 of 2191 🔗

Lots of sirens down here in Bournemouth as well. Really getting tired of hearing them. I’m miles from the hospital so I don’t know why they keep driving up and down like that. There would have to be masses of non-covid issues to justify so many sirens since covid is almost non-existent down here. I’ve noticed more helicopters as well. It’s not like the beaches are crowded now, so I don’t know what they’re up to.

154557 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to 6097 Smith W, 3, #290 of 2191 🔗

I figured that out about the ambulances second week after lockdown, out and about as key worker.
I learned later that they would send an ambulance to a nearby town to wail around for a bit before going to the next town like a ice cream van.

155015 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to karenovirus, 2, #291 of 2191 🔗

Can you get a “99 with a flake ?

154402 Mark H, replying to Mark H, 10, #292 of 2191 🔗

Here’s a clip of Kary Mullis , the inventor of the PCR test, talking about how it works and what its limitations are.

Apparently the assays used for testing the swabs come with instructions stating that 45 cycles must be used. The normal number of cycles is 30…so, 50% more cycles are needed when running PCR tests for SARS-Cov-2. 50% more amplification. See here for a photo of the instructions .

Listen to the clip. Then digest the fact that 50% more cycles are needed.

As David Brent had printed on his business cards “If It’s In You, I’ll Find It”.

154417 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Mark H, 6, #293 of 2191 🔗

Although 15 cycles doesn’t sound much. 50% increase sounds significant, but what does it really mean. Each cycle doubles the number of strands.
30 cycles is 2 times itself 30 times or approximately 1 BILLION .
45 cycles is 2 times itself 45 times or approximately 32 TRILLION

154426 ▶▶▶ Mark H, replying to p02099003, 6, #294 of 2191 🔗

Did you listen to the audio clip? Very revealing. It can’t tell you if you’re ill…slam dunk. Wanna know if you have HIV? Take a test and spin that muthafucka until you get a positive result.

What word used to be used before the term “cases”?

That’s right “hospital”.

These positive tests come from 50% more spins in the assay which in and of itself doesn’t clinically determine if the tested person is actually ill.


154459 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to p02099003, 2, #295 of 2191 🔗

Can’t remember where I saw it, but I was under the impression 45 cycles is enough to guarantee a false positive (as in, to get a positive result with no RNA strands at all).

154490 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Andrew Fish, 1, #296 of 2191 🔗

Carl Henghan’s paper affirmed it.

154439 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Mark H, 1, #297 of 2191 🔗

That is surely damning evidence!

154522 ▶▶ DeepBlueYonder, replying to Mark H, 1, #298 of 2191 🔗

Do you know which tests these instructions relate to – is it the Pillar 2 ones?

154535 ▶▶▶ Mark H, replying to DeepBlueYonder, 1, #299 of 2191 🔗

The instructions were sent to Adam Curry by an anonymous lab technician who raised the alarm re the number of cycles.

154404 2 pence, replying to 2 pence, 5, #300 of 2191 🔗

Describing his time at Wandsworth Police station released after 22 hours Dr Heiko Schoning.

The full statement already removed by youtube

154607 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to 2 pence, 1, #301 of 2191 🔗

For some reason I can’t access twitter.com. Is it possible to say briefly what he said that caused him to be censored? That everyone should kiss a policemen when they got the chance – because that’s what he did when he was banged up in the cells?

154746 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #302 of 2191 🔗

They took his computer, phone and book (already best seller in German, now published in English and by more than one author, don’t think he is one): Covid 19 False Alarm

154778 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Victoria, 3, #303 of 2191 🔗

The book is written by Dr Karina Reiss and Dr Sucharit Bhakdi. Available in England from 1st October and I ordered mine via website called A great read

154786 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #304 of 2191 🔗

Dr Schoning said that the covid emergency had been created to cover up a global financial collapse, to get the bankers off the hook (not blamed like in 2008), and that it was a criminal conspiracy.

154817 ▶▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Kate, -1, #305 of 2191 🔗

That you for this enlightenment. What he said just seems silly. Silliness shouldn’t be censored. Let the chap be heard – not arrested or handcuffed as I think was the case. Voltaire should be followed on this.

154760 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to 2 pence, #306 of 2191 🔗

Shame the Twitter video cut out just when it was getting interesting. Is the full statement hosted somewhere other than YouTube?

154875 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to mattghg, #307 of 2191 🔗

It is still on YT.

155664 ▶▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to Kevin 2, #308 of 2191 🔗

Where? The link from Anna Brees’ Twitter post leads to a YouTube page saying “This video has been removed for violating YouTube’s Terms of Service”.

154405 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 8, #311 of 2191 🔗

The old Nokia phone is a powerful symbol of how irrelevant Europe is in this massive power struggle.

China and the Democratic Party, WHO, all share the same goal for now: to get rid of Trump.

That ends 03 Nov. WHO loses leverage, the U.S. and China revert to economic priorities

Quite possibly, BCG vaccination will be pushed as a magic bullet for the fearful and everyone comes out from behind the sofa.

Britain’s state apparatus will attempt to maintain an atmosphere of national emergency as cover for Brexit thereafter.

However, post Brexit, the eu’s interest will shift to blaming Britain for all its economic woes, do everything in its power to get a pro eu government elected to reverse Brexit.

By March 2021, this government, the state broadcaster, state health service and inept public sector will be the subject of intense international ridicule, particularly if the Democratic party wins the White House.

The future for our Prime Minister looks bleak. He should start making some friends. He’s going to need them…….and the gallant few who inhabit this site, thought leaders one and all, would not be a bad place to start……

154406 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Tim Bidie, #312 of 2191 🔗

So you’re saying Trump definitely loses..?

155410 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Barney McGrew, #313 of 2191 🔗

I would never say that……It is probably Biden’s to lose at the moment…..but he seems like the kind of guy who could lose it…….

154584 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Tim Bidie, #314 of 2191 🔗

BCG? Why?

154617 ▶▶▶ Ajb, replying to mattghg, 1, #315 of 2191 🔗

According to an article I read (sorry, can’t remember where) it seems to be protective, particularly the BCG-Tokyo variety.

155427 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to mattghg, 1, #316 of 2191 🔗

BCG vaccine is already proven to be safe, may prevent covid 19 spread:

Our findings suggest that routine infant BCG vaccination coverage in young generation had a significant impact on prevention of local COVID-19 spread in Japan.’


‘It is hypothesized that BCG vaccination is linked to a less severe manifestation of SARS-CoV-2 in the countries that have it on their regular vaccination schedules. In a study preprint published on MedRxiv.org, a research group states that BCG vaccination is a potential new tool in the fight against COVID-19 [3].
Murdoch Children’s Research Institute has organized BRACE, a Phase 3, two-group, multicenter, open-label, randomized, controlled trial of up to 4170 health care workers in Australian hospitals to determine if BCG vaccination reduces the incidence and severity of COVID-19 during the 2020 pandemic [4]. Primary results are expected in October 2020’


155038 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Tim Bidie, 2, #317 of 2191 🔗

The Democrats seem to have made the same mistakes as last time with regards to Trump and his appeal.

As for Boris making friends, he’s already announced the UK will become the WHOs largest donor

154407 davews, replying to davews, 33, #318 of 2191 🔗

Just posted this on John Redwood’s forum (waiting moderation)

Sir John, can you please ask Matt Hancock how many of the current 5000+ daily ‘cases’ are seriously ill with the disease. All the students being interviewed on the TV and those queuing for tests to me look in perfectly good health with no symptoms at all. Why we are having all these restrictions to everything we do and huge fines for defying them when it seems the most common symptom of Covid 19 is no symptoms at all?

154602 ▶▶ nottingham69, replying to davews, 1, #319 of 2191 🔗

Or ill at all.

154410 HelzBelz, replying to HelzBelz, 9, #320 of 2191 🔗

So parliament want now to vote on future coronavirus laws. But what about the existing ones? Any sign that these will also be debated and retrospectively agreed or abolished?

I’m not sure there’s much worse they can do, though that may be just a failure of imagination on my part.

154416 ▶▶ annie, replying to HelzBelz, 4, #321 of 2191 🔗

It’s a start.

154431 ▶▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to annie, 10, #322 of 2191 🔗

Hate to sound ungrateful but not much of a start. We are trapped in this horrible muzzled, snitching society with jobs and livelihoods being flushed down the toilet and no end in sight. Voting on any new Hancock brainwaves won’t change the dystopian nightmare in which we now exist, and who knows, parliament may agree with further measures. Can’t say that I’m filled with optimism for the situation getting any better.

154445 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to HelzBelz, 5, #323 of 2191 🔗

Apparently they are debated. The rule of 6 is being debated on 6th Oct. maybe they have simply voted everything through so far but are no beginning to dissent?

154457 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Sarigan, 2, #324 of 2191 🔗

They haven’t had a vote on anything Covid-related since the rushed original bill back in March.

154475 ▶▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Sarigan, 5, #325 of 2191 🔗

What about face nappies? V depressing convo last night, usual guff about even if there is no evidence that they are effective we should still wear them because they •might• help…

154566 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to HelzBelz, 11, #326 of 2191 🔗

Here is how I deal with maskies.

I explain that I am under no compulsion at all to wear a mask until I am satisfied that people have done everything they can to minimise their own risk of death.

Anyone who has done any of the following has no right to ask me to mask up to protect them:

  • Drunk alcohol
  • Smoked
  • Taken any kind of drugs
  • Driven over the speed limit
  • Used the phone while driving
  • Ridden a bicycle on the roads
  • Engaged in any risky sports
  • Been overweight at any time
  • etc

It is act of supreme selfishness to ask someone else to change their lives to protect them when they themselves haven’t done all they can to minimise their risks first.

154593 ▶▶▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to stewart, 5, #327 of 2191 🔗

Driving even sober is a risk. If they are that concerned about risk they shouldn’t drive.

155368 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Thinkaboutit, 1, #328 of 2191 🔗

97% of fatality/serious injury accidents are caused by totally sober drivers.

155579 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Thinkaboutit, 1, #329 of 2191 🔗

And even more people die through accidents in their own household anyway…

154628 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to HelzBelz, 4, #330 of 2191 🔗

I would have led with the fact there is evidence that they cause harm (even to the extent they can turn a mild case of Covid into a lethal one). Then they have to justify why one harm should supercede the other.

154415 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 11, #331 of 2191 🔗

Glad to read the comments underneath the Sun article posted above. Vast majority are on board the sceptics’ bus (maskless, of course!)

154421 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to Margaret, 4, #332 of 2191 🔗

Delightful! Enjoy your day.

154419 alw, replying to alw, 4, #333 of 2191 🔗

Iphone recent update IoS 14 now puts Exposure Notifications on your phone under General. Remember to turn off.

154430 ▶▶ Rabbit, replying to alw, 4, #334 of 2191 🔗

On an Android device it is under Settings, Google but on mine at least it is off by default.

154478 ▶▶ James007, replying to alw, 1, #335 of 2191 🔗

What does it do?

154576 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to James007, 6, #336 of 2191 🔗

That’s the proximity/blue tooth component of covid tracking apps like the NHSX app we are all supposed to have now. So it measures if you are within 2 meters people around you who are also using the app.

This distance could be up to eight meters under the right circumstances like in a train, the metal walls of the train can help to “carry” the signal down the trains body, same in a bus.

Also if you were in a hotel its very likely you would register as being within two meters of somebody else even on the other side of a wall in the adjacent room.

All their ID’s are stored in your phone, if you are in proximity to a person who has been flagged as testing positive for more than 15 minutes the app then decides you are gonna get covid and you must stay at home for 14 days.

If anybody who you have been in “contact” with for more then 15 minutes has been in contact with anybody for more than, who has been in contact with for more than…..They ALL have to self isolate, not go anywhere at all, not to the shops, not even to walk the dog. If you do then you get fined £10000.

Don’t worry this app is perfectly safe and will respect your privacy.


What the hell is wrong with people?

154664 ▶▶▶▶ shorthand, replying to Two-Six, 1, #337 of 2191 🔗

Switch the f’ker off or leave it at home. It’s a habit I’m trying to break. I’m making a point of not having it on when I’m driving anywhere, cycling anywhere or especially in the shops – It stays in the car when I’m getting my shopping. No idea why, but I’ve even started to turn it off in the evening when I go to my cot.
There’s a thing on utube ’10 things you should turn off on your iphone’ its worth a look.

154679 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to shorthand, 3, #338 of 2191 🔗

Yer just chuck your phone away. I don’t need a mobile nobody calls me or text me anyway these days. I have ceased to exist. I am OK with that strangely.

154816 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ shorthand, replying to Two-Six, 4, #339 of 2191 🔗

Aye, fuck it. Am going off-grid like John Connor..!!

154783 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Two-Six, 1, #340 of 2191 🔗

Actually, there is quite a long list of reasons you can go out for, even going to buy food.

154423 Bart Simpson, 20, #341 of 2191 🔗

I’m currently boycotting the British Library due to their insane “safety” measures and looks like their chief librarian has added another dash of insanity on top of their already existing ones.

I would be for defunding them if only to teach this Ms Jolly a lesson and to let her know that the public won’t stand for this nonsense.

It seems to me that the government pushing for fines and the new regulations reeks of desperation especially as the MSM are questioning more and more the narrative, backbench MPs are rebelling and they’re unable to stem the tsunami of job losses and bankruptcy.

Add in the current plight of university students and the government are hurtling into destruction and a winter of discontent.

They will reap what they sow.

154424 Stephen⁹ Williams, replying to Stephen⁹ Williams, 42, #342 of 2191 🔗

Trying to do the impossible of eradicating a virus by devastating the economy and destroying society. 82% of people don’t self isolate. Why? I suspect a good many can’t because they have to go to work or live in a tiny house with no garden. Note that the lockdown areas are predominantly areas of poorer housing. Now fine people £10,000 which is a life changing amount for many. It is a direct attack on good, honest working people. Be ashamed Government. You’ve demolished your own ‘Red Wall’.

154434 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to Stephen⁹ Williams, 29, #343 of 2191 🔗

Has it also not crossed people’s minds that 82% don’t isolate because they don’t feel particularly ill or they’re completely a symptomatic ( or false positives). If you were suffering from a ‘deadly virus’ you’re hardly likely to muster the energy to go out shopping. We’re all so blind now we don’t see the truth staring us in the face

154451 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Telpin, 19, #344 of 2191 🔗

Also because they probably don’t really believe they are in danger of killing anyone. People wear masks mainly because of peer pressure, not because they think it works. If you are meant to be isolating, no-one who sees you out and about actually knows this.

154444 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Stephen⁹ Williams, 13, #345 of 2191 🔗

Indeed. And the worst part of it all is all those bleating about “people before profit” are conspicuously silent and absent. They willfully ignore the fact that the lockdown, social distancing and the assorted “safety” measures have disproportionately affected the poor by ensuring that their standard of living has become even more precarious, unstable and condemning them to even greater poverty.

154492 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Stephen⁹ Williams, 4, #346 of 2191 🔗

Yet, according to recent polling, around 50% of people want a more draconian lockdown. They can’t all be public sector workers with guaranteed 100% salaries.

154551 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 6, #347 of 2191 🔗

There seem to be plenty of people out there who have taken to working from home and are not looking forward to going back to commuting.

154688 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to stewart, 8, #348 of 2191 🔗

It cannot be stated enough.opinion polls are a tool for influencing public opinion not measuring them.Ignore

154843 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to stewart, 2, #349 of 2191 🔗

Unsurprisingly, if you’re a couple commuting into London for £6000 a year each. Small shops and cafes in the local area are reaping the benefit.

154637 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #350 of 2191 🔗

They can be – if the only people with time to keep voting in these polls are those lounging at home on full pay then it’s bound to rig the outcome. Remember these snap polls are accessible to anyone with time to waste visiting the YouGov website and no personal information is gathered.

154789 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Stephen⁹ Williams, 2, #351 of 2191 🔗

The fine for the first offence is £1000, second offence £2k, 3rd offence £3k, fourth time caught £4, adds up to £10k. What happens at the 5th time?

154834 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Silke David, 6, #352 of 2191 🔗

At least it’s not exponential.

155027 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Silke David, 2, #353 of 2191 🔗

Public flogging.

155031 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to David Grimbleby, 2, #354 of 2191 🔗

Maybe once you’ve paid your 10,000 quid you can get on with your life as normal.

156275 ▶▶ JamieKM, replying to Stephen⁹ Williams, 1, #355 of 2191 🔗

When some cunt of a cop tries to fine anyone, especially a poor person, for breaking an illegal house arrest order there are two words they should reply with, shouted at the top of their voice, DOMINIC and CUMMINGS. Hopefully the residents of any such poverty stricken areas will band together and have gareed, upon hearing that call, to come out and drive such a copper away.

154428 alw, replying to alw, 11, #356 of 2191 🔗

“Once people start blindly obeying irrational authority and conforming in both mentally and in dress, it becomes easier to dehumanise your enemies.”

Bravo to the wonderful Dr David Nott in his excellent book War Doctor…top of page 98.

154489 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to alw, 5, #357 of 2191 🔗

Be careful in your praise for him – he was one of the chief ‘doctors’ who switched to the front line of coronavirus care in the early days, and recounted how the London hospital where he volunteered was worse than any war zone he had been in!

154432 George Marchaux, replying to George Marchaux, 3, #359 of 2191 🔗


Please sign above – essential legislation

154723 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to George Marchaux, 1, #361 of 2191 🔗

Repeal the Coronavirus Act 2020 The Coronavirus Act grants potentially dangerous powers including to detain some persons indefinitely, to take biological samples, and to give directions about dead bodies. Powers last up to 2 years with 6 monthly reviews, and lockdown powers could prevent protests against measures.

154433 alw, 10, #362 of 2191 🔗

They cannot lock you up.

154435 Nic, replying to Nic, 53, #363 of 2191 🔗

So pubs spent 1000s pounds getting ready for Corona rules they then changed the rules more money spent they are now going to shut down hospitality for 2 weeks in vast areas of the country.
The pubs will have to throw away 1ooo s of pints of beer, and with no government help this time will probably fold.
They said 3 weeks last time it was 4 months,
I hate the cunts in this government wankers the lot of them I rarely swear but this time I’m lost for words.

154481 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Nic, 12, #364 of 2191 🔗

Exactly. But rest assured Nic, the MPs “fully understand” our concerns … Like effing hell they do.

154502 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Nic, 9, #365 of 2191 🔗

Every scientific adviser and government official needs to be asked when interviewed – when did you last visit a pub and are you teetotal?

Also, why are the bars in the HoC not subject to the same restrictions as other pubs/wine bars? Are the gentlemen’s clubs (Whites etc) subject to the same restrictions, and if not, why not?

154545 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #366 of 2191 🔗

I think Nic has summed it up very eloquently

I hate the cunts in this government wankers the lot of them

154580 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #367 of 2191 🔗

MP asked whether hoc bars closed at 10pm would not answer.
BBC R4 Today,this morning.

154552 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Nic, 3, #368 of 2191 🔗

Its almost as if obeying the arbitrary dictates of these tyrants is not good for the individual or for business.

154578 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Nic, 9, #369 of 2191 🔗

Changing irrational rules capriciously is a trait of authoritarian regimes, they like to keep people on the hop as a distraction from what is really going on.

154657 ▶▶ Jem, replying to Nic, 10, #370 of 2191 🔗

I don’t feel sorry for them. I wish they’d all fold and close. They should’ve been raging from the get-go about this farce. Instead, just like happened in Russia in the 1920s (according to The Gulag Archipeligo) people are rushing around, ‘ooooh I’m complying, if I comply I’ll be ok, if everyone complies we’ll all be ok’. . . history clearly again and again says otherwise. Co-operating and participating in tyranny increases it!
The live music, the dancers, artists, theatres, pubs, most f****ing industries have shut up and opened their hands for money. That money (surely?) will stop coming at some point and then they’ll have a big paddy and blame us – the consumers – for not supporting them.

154448 Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 8, #371 of 2191 🔗

Need a bit of help here.

My wife is exempt from wearing a face covering. She works at Heathrow Airport and is often harassed by security staff when making her way to work, with them demanding ‘proof’ of her condition. They go away and make a phone call to their manager before quietly backing down, but it’s starting to get annoying. We would like their staff to be ‘retrained’.

What is the relevant legislation preventing them from asking her for ‘proof’ of her condition?

154449 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 6, #372 of 2191 🔗

I believe its GDPR and medical privacy legislation. Also the Equalities Act?

Check out the Law or Fiction website, they will have the information there.

Also get your wife to complain to her manager who should be able to contact the relevant department to get their staff trained on exemptions and the Equalities Act.

154498 ▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #374 of 2191 🔗

Excellent, thanks both! Her manager is very supportive, and her company is absolutely fine. The security work for the airport itself and airports do love enforcing a rule!

154582 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 2, #375 of 2191 🔗

Airports are the source of most of the security kabuki when people went on holiday.
Naturally they have enthusiastically adopted another method of harassing the general public.

154592 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, #376 of 2191 🔗

And the personnel will be routinely changed as part of security procedures.

154739 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to karenovirus, #377 of 2191 🔗

Yes, that’s a big part of the problem with an issue like this at airports, especially a huge one like Heathrow.

154690 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 1, #378 of 2191 🔗

Other than inspecting their nose pickings security has fcuk all else to do.

154450 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 25, #379 of 2191 🔗


Robert Dingwall, Professor of sociology at Nottingham Trent University:
”The rumoured ban on households meeting has no better basis of evidence beyond the desire to be seen to ‘do something.”

Doesn’t that describe everything that governments have done?

154543 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Margaret, 6, #380 of 2191 🔗

Yes. But it goes on and on. Now this app is being forced on us.
I don’t think people quite get how dangerous this situation has become.
If the track and trace app gets any traction, our lives as we know them are over.

155595 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to stewart, 2, #381 of 2191 🔗

In Germany, the app was downloaded by 14 million bedwetters on the first day.
Since then (3 months now) only a further 2 million came on board.
It’s full of flaws and was officially branded totally useless recently.
But of course, instead of abandoning it, they are trying to double down on it.

154577 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Margaret, 1, #382 of 2191 🔗


155286 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Margaret, 2, #383 of 2191 🔗

And the desire to prevent people from meeting another uncontrollably, so that no dissent can arise and spread….

154452 David Watts, replying to David Watts, 4, #384 of 2191 🔗

How would your neighbours find out you have been told to self isolate. Surely it must be covered by medical confidentiality.

154734 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to David Watts, 2, #385 of 2191 🔗

They never would, unless you told them. Best not to!

154807 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to David Watts, 1, #386 of 2191 🔗

I guess they might know if it was a post holiday self isolation but basically keep it quiet and they have no way of knowing. Even better don’t answer the phone if track and trace ring. I never answer to numbers I don’t know and never ever answer the land-line which also doesn’t have voice mail.

154461 Jonathan Palmer, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 11, #387 of 2191 🔗

Illuminating article in the times today.
They were basically going for lockdown 2 last week but bottled it.
That was the purpose of the chuckle brothers graph of doom,but there was enough of a pushback to make them think again.
It is still the plan though as a government source said ‘people haven’t seen footage of people on ventilators in France or Spain YET.Its important to bring people with you.
Be prepared for more scenes of hospitals as they soften us up for more lockdown

154512 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 5, #388 of 2191 🔗

The objective isn’t lockdown. It’s track and trace.

154565 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to stewart, 3, #389 of 2191 🔗

Lockdown is a tool to control us while they establish the control grid

154594 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 3, #390 of 2191 🔗

The same article suggests the speaker is unhappy with the Baker amendment. I thought it was the speaker’s job to speak up for Parliament?

154680 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Yawnyaman, 3, #391 of 2191 🔗

I cant see any help coming from Parliament.6 months of the government ruling by decree and hardly a peep.The speaker did call Hancock to account for announcing something on twitter and not in the house first.Apparently he is ok with government by decree as long as it’s announced in the house first.

154462 Ethelred the Unready, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 5, #392 of 2191 🔗

Nigel and Loz should join forces, with Nigel’s experience and political nowse, plus Loz’s charisma, they would hoover up an awful lot of votes! Give the Tories a real scare (might remind them of the need to be conservative rather than New Labour clones)

154463 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 13, #393 of 2191 🔗

We’re told Laurence Fox has raised £5M already. That may or may not be true. Assuming it is, does he not think that £5M would be better spent in working to end medico-fascism?

I’m all for long term thinking, but right now doesn’t seem like the right time to me.

Sorry but I cannot support any party whose top priority is not ending lockdown.

154474 ▶▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to Julian, 4, #394 of 2191 🔗

It makes sense to me. He can have ending this perversion as a policy too. You can’t found a party for the longterm on a single (hopefully) temporary issue, however important at the time. Ask Nigel – he’s still stuck with ‘The Brexit Party’.

154493 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to James Leary #KBF, 3, #395 of 2191 🔗

Indeed you cannot, but I would regard any political activity as largely irrelevant in the short term if it’s not focused on ending lockdown. Farage achieved his immediate aim – more than can be said for many similar campaigners. He may not have achieved longer term aims, if he had any, but right now I’d take the £5M and use it to try and free the country.

154485 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 5, #396 of 2191 🔗

I’m waiting to see what he says on the coronapanic. But the issues he is addressing are the longer term, underlying problems that got us where we are now.

154500 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 1, #397 of 2191 🔗

Yes, this is true, but I just don’t think the timing is right (though you could argue it’s overdue) and if they adopt ending lockdown as their first policy it will further politicise the dissent, which is a weapon that will be used against us (far-right, libertarian etc.)

Would rather have seen a party with one single aim and very sparse core message that the lockdown was disproportionate – way harder to attack

154511 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Mark, 7, #398 of 2191 🔗

He has regularly tweeted and posted anti lockdown material. I think his stance is quite clear on it but maybe dialling back a bit on that initially to gain traction and following?

154513 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sarigan, 3, #399 of 2191 🔗

I thought so too. I recall a few months ago he did an outside broadcast with Mike Graham of talkRADIO from a pub, on the day they were allowed to re-open. I’m pretty sure he was espousing LS views.

154655 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Sarigan, #400 of 2191 🔗

Yes, that was my impression as well. Waiting and seeing on it for the moment though.

154508 ▶▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to Julian, 6, #401 of 2191 🔗

I think he’s right to not pursue an openly anti-lockdown line at this stage. This party needs the backing of the broadest possible range of people if it’s to succeed in the long term. To go full anti-lockdown risks alienating the many people who would be its natural supporters but who, sad to say at the moment, still believe this mild sniffle is going to kill them (I know many such). Better to allow the corona-bollux and all its edifices to collapse of its own accord. They can always jump on the bandwagon as it sinks.

154581 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Now More Than Ever, 2, #402 of 2191 🔗

Better to allow the corona-bollux and all its edifices to collapse of its own accord.” To borrow a word from the lockdown zealots, I believe that is a dangerous assumption.

The tide is turning, but there’s no guarantee it will turn far enough, and it may take many years, by which time the damage will be even more immense than it is now.

 It may be good tactics in the short term from Fox, but I cannot support anything that does not have a clear policy on this nonsense – it’s way more important than anything else right now, and to have a promising future in my book any party must have a commitment to not only end the madness but to stop it happening again.

154713 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Now More Than Ever, 1, #403 of 2191 🔗

Well stated. Agree

155611 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Now More Than Ever, 1, #404 of 2191 🔗

Anti-lockdown doesn’t mean anti anything Corona related.
Anti mandatory masks, anti PCR, anti t&t, anti quarantine of healthy people, anti NHS Covid only, anti mandatory vaccination can be combined with a sensible stance on testing&quarantines, pro HCQ, voluntary masking, better care home protection, NHS and dentists back to full capacity, special fever ambulances for all cases of cold and Covid like symptoms- and so on.
Anti-lockdown is a no brainer and a must though- Peru, Israel, Argentina and basically every other lockdown country demonstrate their ineffectiveness against Corona and the huge
collateral damage they result in.

154467 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 3, #405 of 2191 🔗

Nous, sorry I am the spelling gestapo.

154468 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 13, #406 of 2191 🔗

They have this week left to save the Tory Party. And I’m being generous there.

154534 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to James Leary #KBF, 7, #407 of 2191 🔗

I doubt the Tory party can be saved at this point. It would still be in their interests to stop destroying the country before millions have died as a result of neglect by the NHS and millions more are hungry and have nothing left to loose.

154562 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Saved To Death, 2, #408 of 2191 🔗

The Tory party is a blairite clone.Apart from Brexit which was forced on them,what major policy would differ from Starmers Labour

155145 ▶▶ annie, replying to James Leary #KBF, 2, #409 of 2191 🔗

Not worth saving a rotting corpse.

154480 Mark, replying to Mark, 7, #410 of 2191 🔗

From free speech to civil liberties, much of the left has in recent years retreated from issues that once helped define it. This has given a free pass to the libertarian right both to don the mantle of freedom and to distort its meaning. The left needs urgently to rediscover its old passion for liberty.

Leftists abandon defence of freedom of speech and association, then are shocked that for some reason only the right seems to stand up for these things!

This is not hard to understand, if one is not hidebound by one’s own dogmas, or accepting of mainstream propaganda. The left pretty much won (politically) almost all its arguments during the C20th and became the establishment. When they found themselves to be the new establishment, and largely safe from state attack, they started to retreat from defending freedoms, and moved towards using the state to suppress dissent from their own positions and thereby reduce resistance to their policies. Dissenting speech became “hate speech”, and freedom of association became “sexist” or “racist”.

It’s not hard to understand – they were largely hypocrites who claimed to believe in these things out of high principle but in reality promoted them for self protection. Now it’s conservatives, traditionalists and patriots who face dismissal for expressing their opinions, and state action against them, so lefties by and large aren’t all that bothered, and it’s the right that needs to mobilise on these fronts.

All the issues of suppression of dissent, state propaganda and manipulation etc in the coronapanic are not brand new. They’ve been there in our society for decades, it’s just that they have not previously affected the people who are now noticing them because of the coronapanic, etc. And BLM, XR etc are the results of decades of manipulative propaganda similar to the coronapanic fear propaganda, disseminated through many of the same organs (BBC, Guardian) and people (the long march through the institutions).

And no, left and right is not “outdated” or “irrelevant”, it’s a shorthand that has real meaning just as it always has. The parties dance around these positions, but the underlying issues remain.These terms are still useful for analysis, understanding and explanation, as seen in so many of the articles discussed by Toby and Will above the line. It’s futile and time-wasting to dismiss them. Rather, they should be addressed and used. To be clear it’s not a matter of “left inherently bad, right inherently good”, anymore than it is the reverse. It;s just that we are in a situation atm where the left has been dominant for a long time and is causing problems more than the right.

154887 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Mark, 5, #411 of 2191 🔗

Well you could have fooled me, looks like it’s the Tory Party causing problems at the moment, not the left. And let’s stop pretending they’re the Cuckoo Party betraying their own ideals, they’re not: they are currently promoting the interests of shadowy City property magnates, big pharma and the petro chemical industrialists, many US based, just the same as ever.

154944 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Bruno, 2, #412 of 2191 🔗

Funny how strongly those interests seem to be aligned with all the leftwing media and political parties, leftwing academics and pressure groups etc. then. Funny how that well known tool of the far right money men, Jeremy Corbyn, was one of the ones criticising the government for not panicking enough back in March, when the crucial change of course was made. And funny how we keep getting articles highlighted here by leftwingers complaining about the lack of resistance on the left and saying that the issue is being abandoned to the right (as it has been – not entirely, but largely).

Of course it’s nonsense to try to pretend as Rick H desperately does here in the face of repeated refutation, which he just ignores, that this coronapanic was somehow “driven by the far right”.

But the real issue is simply one of wider perspective – objectively the “Conservative” Party has accepted almost all of the left’s positions during the C20th, from worshiping collectivised healthcare to using the magic money tree to spend without limit. And indeed it’s pretty much inconceivable that any Conservative Party government prior to the Cameron takeover would have considered the panic measures imposed in March for a second. They would surely have harked back to traditional conservative suspicion of state action as the only solution, and to the established methods of responding to disease rather than the radical “expert”-driven snake oil we have seen.

154484 Mark, replying to Mark, 12, #413 of 2191 🔗

If Fox’s party comes out against the coronapanic I’m there now. If it doesn’t then I’ll probably drift to it later anyway once the coronapanic nonsense is behind us.

154506 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Mark, 1, #414 of 2191 🔗


154507 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Mark, 3, #415 of 2191 🔗

Ditto. First things first, the virus bandwagon needs to be obliterated.

154632 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Mark, 2, #416 of 2191 🔗

Same. Does anybody know his position on this? Farage has drifted towards scepticism it appears, after being a strong supporter of lockdowns and the rest of it, but I am not sure if that is a genuine or opportunistic shift? No idea on Fox’s views.

154959 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Chris Hume, 1, #417 of 2191 🔗

I have a vague recollection of him saying some sceptical things, but can’t recall any specifics.

154701 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Mark, 4, #419 of 2191 🔗

Look at the bigger picture. By addressing the attack on our rights, liberties and freedom of speech (under umbrella of culture) it forms part of challenging anti-lockdown. Support them and give them the benefit of the doubt and see how it goes – it will also give a strong message to both tory’s and labour that they have credible competition.

This party is not about left or right. https://twitter.com/LozzaFox

Currently there is no anti-lockdown focused party

154894 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Victoria, 3, #420 of 2191 🔗

Sorry to disappoint but a party without a position on economic issues is doomed to failure.

154953 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Bruno, 1, #421 of 2191 🔗

Go tell that to the M5S in Italy. Plenty of time to sort out economics.

154996 ▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Bruno, 1, #422 of 2191 🔗

The economy is trashed. Needs to open the dialogue for new approaches for People not for corporate and financial-corporate plunder.
First task is to reestablish People. Human relationships; process of communication, basis from which to establish and grow trust. Without a true foundation you play in Foxy Loxy’s theme park.

155613 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Bruno, #423 of 2191 🔗

And one without a position on lockdown has lost my vote.

154487 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 6, #424 of 2191 🔗

The first link in ‘Roundup’ above includes these words:-

>>>>….anyone contacted by NHS Test and Trace is now legally obliged to self-isolate for 10 days and if you break the rules can be fined up to £10,000 – with the police carrying out spot checks to make sure you’re complying< <<

I returned to England four weeks ago after being in Ireland for six months. I have yet to see a policeman. I live in a small tourist town so I see lots of people but never a policeman!

It is essentially policing by bluff – they’ll be no policeman there to enforce it .

It might explain why not infrequently I see a passenger sat on their own on the top deck of an open top bus with the wind whistling round his or her ears but wearing a mask – they do so for fear of a policeman racing on board and imposing a £10,000 fine.

[NB. The £10,000 fine is surely the ‘ultimate’ fine if it is like the transport fine. I’m guessing it starts at £200 and doubles up at each repeat offence. (I await to be corrected if I’m wrong).]

154499 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #425 of 2191 🔗

Policing by fear is probably more apt.

154537 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Ned of the Hills, 3, #426 of 2191 🔗

The fine increases exponentially

154615 ▶▶ Will, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #427 of 2191 🔗

It won’t take long for the self isolation law to be torn apart by a half sensible barrister.

154806 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #428 of 2191 🔗

The fine starts at £1k, and doubles. they mention fines up to the 4rth offence, not what happens after that.

155046 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #429 of 2191 🔗

Whatever happened to those ” Community Cops”?

155053 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #430 of 2191 🔗

I live in a village well known for its policemen residents. Even here I know they won’t be enforcing it. The policing by bluff is what we saw at the march on Saturday. Do it for the cameras and spread the image of being hard

155609 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #431 of 2191 🔗

It would be funny if they did that while I was on board. I always ride on the top deck in splendid isolation. The officer would get to the top deck only to see the exemption card on the lanyard around my neck. And if I knew there were other unmasked folks on board, I’d try to stall them to give the others a chance to get their faces covered.

154491 Bart Simpson, 6, #432 of 2191 🔗

When I was at uni, I saw first hand how useless the NUS were.

Not surprising to see that they’re still useless. How they have not been abolished or at least defunded is a mystery – that’s one avenue where the state can save money and put them to better use.

The students should stop relying on the NUS to fight their corner, they should do it themselves.

154495 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 8, #433 of 2191 🔗

Near the start of all this the Government started testing people to try and find the virus. Once it was found to be widespread they stopped. The logic being that it would be a futile exercise beyond a certain point.

Consider if each infected person has 4 contacts that also need to be traced and isolated. This is a relatively easy task if there are only a handful of infected people. If there are 10k infected each with 4 contacts then that is already 40k people that need to be traced and isolated.

By the time you isolate 1 person in Kent there will probably be 10 people already getting infected elsewhere in the country. The decision to stop testing was a good one.

What are they proposing now? Testing everyone even though the above logic still stands. Either they have thrown logic out of the window or they are proposing that testing everyone in the country multiple times a week is required when the prevalance of the virus is very low. Neither of which makes any sense.

This is the level that “following the science” has brought us to.

154503 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Nobody2020, 15, #434 of 2191 🔗

They are testing now to find enough cases to maintain the fear.It is no longer about a virus,if it ever was

154505 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 3, #435 of 2191 🔗

Agree with that.

154533 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #436 of 2191 🔗


154733 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #437 of 2191 🔗

Whilst I don’t agree on the conspiracy, per se, I think they are testing so that they can create the illusion that they have “beaten” the virus. Interestingly, I talk to more and more people who think getting a test is the height of stupidity.

154560 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #438 of 2191 🔗

Yet another thing that the WHO changed tack on, only recommending test and trace in the early stages to control spread, then to TEST, TEST, TEST.
Yet another organisation that has great intentions, but is riddled with both corruption and incompetence.

154496 Jonathan Palmer, 1, #439 of 2191 🔗


154497 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 29, #440 of 2191 🔗

Last known photograph of SAGE committee, June 2021

154559 ▶▶ Nic, replying to steve_w, 3, #441 of 2191 🔗


155151 ▶▶ annie, replying to steve_w, 2, #442 of 2191 🔗

Roll on.
is there an online course in hangman skills?

155271 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to steve_w, 4, #443 of 2191 🔗

That should be: All world leaders and their Corona advisers, bar Loefven, Tegnell, Bolsonaro, DeSantis, Kristi Noem, Lukashenko and above all: the President of Tanzania!

154510 nickbowes, replying to nickbowes, 11, #444 of 2191 🔗

Happy to see a full office today, the first since mid March !

Hurrah !

154569 ▶▶ Julian, replying to nickbowes, 2, #445 of 2191 🔗

What “safety” measures do you have, if I may ask? How are they viewed?

154579 ▶▶▶ nickbowes, replying to Julian, 4, #446 of 2191 🔗

We have 1,500 sq ft for about 15 people, Temporary looking perplex screens, hand wash, silly notices about how to wash your hands, no hand dryers though. Seems ok really. Most of us are all 50 and under so think it is hogwash. Just hope they don`t make the face nappy mandatory in offices, i half expect that.

155227 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to nickbowes, 2, #447 of 2191 🔗

The screens are perplexing! 🙂 …. Long before Covid-19, I worked in a large office building which also had silly notices about how to wash your hands. There was no information about how to wipe your bum, so I made up my own guide. I’ll spare you the details, but the last line was “Repeat process until brown colour disappears or becomes very faint”.

155415 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to nickbowes, 2, #448 of 2191 🔗

Hope it doesn’t get worse. I’ve made it clear to my boss I am not coming back as long as any safety bollocks is in place, but feel badly for those people who don’t like working from home.

154514 Dan Clarke, 12, #449 of 2191 🔗

When David Icke talked about Shape Shifters he was referring to Johnson, the biggest Shape Shifter the UK Parliament has ever had, who would ever have thought this country could be run like this? And who still thinks this is about ANY VIRUS?

154515 steve_w, 21, #450 of 2191 🔗

I went to the demo in London and really enjoyed it. No masks, carnival atmosphere, a load of pints in a pub (table service only) afterwards. It felt normal. Train in and out was dystopian. But life is returning to normal round here, kids are doing ride shares to school, school is relatively normal, no masks in playground. Kids play every day in the street in groups.

Then I read about enforced lockdown of asymptomatic students, Wales being locked down. fines for people not self-isolating. This new ‘game changing’ app which will be about as game changing as antibody tests. I feel like I am straddling 2 worlds – the sane and the insane

154516 stewart, replying to stewart, 17, #451 of 2191 🔗

The time for aggressive non-compliance has arrived.

Not only do we need to not comply with the track and trace system, we need to forcefully challenge anyone who is either in favour or worse still trying to impose it.
If you own a business you need to take a risk and refuse to implement any tracking and tracing.

If this new system gets any momentum, our lives as we know them are over.

154520 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to stewart, 6, #452 of 2191 🔗

I downloaded the app out of interest. Turned off blue tooth and I wave the phone vaguely at the QR code in pubs and restaurants. It seems to satisfy the staff. , Just give false name and number when asked. Nobody is taking it seriously – which is good news.

154523 ▶▶▶ alw, replying to steve_w, 6, #453 of 2191 🔗

Just give the name Carrie Symonds

154526 ▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to alw, 4, #454 of 2191 🔗

I did think it would be fun if I ever tested positive to give the entire SAGE committee, Boris and Wanksock as my ‘close contacts’. Apparently that has just been made illegal though

154531 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to steve_w, 5, #455 of 2191 🔗

Just so you know, apps like this are fully operational and in widespread use in a number of Asian countries. I would be very careful about assuming that the current state of its implementation in Britain is a good prediction of what it’s going to be like in the future. The government is deadly serious implementing the system and will chip away relentlessly at it.

154539 ▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to stewart, 6, #456 of 2191 🔗

Only if we let them. I think we have been quite supine through the lockdown probably because of sunny weather and furlough. That is coming to an end. Only 10% or so of people isolated when asked because 90% of people think this is a joke.

154597 ▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to stewart, 2, #457 of 2191 🔗

It seems beyond Johnson, wonder who the most dedicated dictator is, Cummings?

154518 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, #458 of 2191 🔗

The virus is the enemy. Humans are its assets…

Scorched Earth


A scorched-earth policy is a military strategy that aims to destroy anything that might be useful to the enemy. Any assets that could be used by the enemy may be targeted, which usually includes obvious weapons, transport vehicles, communication sites, and industrial resources. However, anything useful to the advancing enemy may be targeted, including food stores and agricultural areas, water sources, and even the local people themselves, though that last has been banned under the 1977 Geneva Conventions.
The practice can be carried out by the military in enemy territory or in its own home territory while it is being invaded. It may overlap with but is not the same as punitive destruction of the enemy’s resources, which is usually done as part of political strategy, rather than operational strategy.

155012 ▶▶ Binra, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #459 of 2191 🔗

‘Virus’ is psyop set against humans as the virus. Captured human minds are assets.
Captured media, regulators, services and food supply operate ‘control agenda’ but with no basis in truth. Only fear.

154519 THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 4, #460 of 2191 🔗


And listen to our lockdown sceptical podcast!


154524 alw, 8, #461 of 2191 🔗


LAWYERS must get off the fence and call out the new “self isolation” regs for breach of ECHR art 5 and false imprisonment.

Equivocation gives succour to govt. Do not stand by watching govt lawyers obey orders to stand as guards at the doors of our homes.

Your home and family.

154525 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 23, #462 of 2191 🔗

I see according to some newspapers, us sceptics are classed as “Lockdown cheats” and could be subject to a “Spot check” by the police.
I went down to our local river to throw myself in but there’s a waiting list

155581 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #463 of 2191 🔗

What, the thought police are now roving around interrogating people?

154528 BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 10, #464 of 2191 🔗

For this who may have missed it yesterday evening. This really is an excellent study to show just how hard the lockdown was on people. Can’t remember who posted it but you know who you are so thanks.


“Of the 67 autopsies done at our hospital during the first 2 months of lockdown, only two autopsies identified COVID-19 that was undiagnosed before death. More frequently, reduced access to health-care systems associated with lockdown was identified as a probable contributory factor (six cases) or possible contributory factor (eight cases) to death. These causes included potentially preventable out-of-hospital deaths such as acute myocardial infarction and diabetic ketoacidosis, in which patients contacted the health services by telephone and were advised to self-isolate at home rather than attending hospital. Direct reference to financial or work pressures caused by COVID-19 was identified in three of ten cases of suicide.”

154555 ▶▶ Basics, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #465 of 2191 🔗

Thank you for porting across. It is very worthwhile people who can have a look at this study.

154530 2 pence, replying to 2 pence, 6, #466 of 2191 🔗


This is a link to a free PDF of the book that the UK police confiscated from Dr. Heiko Schöning. I imagine it will be an interesting read … it is called Corona, False Alarm?


154547 ▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to 2 pence, #467 of 2191 🔗


154599 ▶▶▶ davews, replying to Seansaighdeoir, #468 of 2191 🔗

Is this a genuine free copy or one somebody has illegally uploaded? I would not want to make the author lose money.

154824 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to davews, #471 of 2191 🔗

The PDF is free, intended so by the author.

154822 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to 2 pence, #472 of 2191 🔗

There is a section of the book available as PDF, which explains what a PCR test is.
I haven’t read the book yet, available from 1st October, author Dr Karina Reiss and
Dr Sucharit Bhakdi. I am sure it is worth having the full info, I have seen all his videos, there is lots of info.

154532 petgor, replying to petgor, 10, #473 of 2191 🔗

With all of the resources available to journalists and their employers, it is essential that the British public be made aware of those of us with critical illnesses, who have been shut out of our Covid centric NHS, and will suffer death or serious long term illness as a direct result of the governments almost criminal mishandling of the situation.

I am awaiting a response to my FoI requesting such information, but, based upon previous FoI requests, I don’t hold out hope for anything more than weasel words and obfuscation. That said, I would assume that it is easily possible for the numbers to be assessed.

Surely, the government must be held to account in advance of when, if ever, these figures are ever made public.

154567 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to petgor, 7, #474 of 2191 🔗

Is there even a criminal in our prisons that has caused as much death and suffering as this government?

154604 ▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Saved To Death, 3, #475 of 2191 🔗

I doubt there is a such a prolific criminal in any jail in the world, maybe some fellow international politicians in for war crimes.

154621 ▶▶▶ James, replying to Saved To Death, 3, #476 of 2191 🔗


154930 ▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Saved To Death, 1, #477 of 2191 🔗

Nope. Their crimes are historic.

155157 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Saved To Death, 1, #478 of 2191 🔗

,t be.
Nor one as evil.

154613 ▶▶ James, replying to petgor, 3, #479 of 2191 🔗

Tell me. How to you hold a government that has complete contempt for the processes of law and parliamentary authority to account. Our system only works because the three prime agencies of our democracy consent to cooperate with each other. We are way past that. The more we waste energy protesting the weaker we become.

154652 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to petgor, 1, #480 of 2191 🔗

Agree. The majority of people in England do not have access to medical care as the NHS focus on Covid care.

For the first time ever people in England will have to consider taking responsibility for their own health . Do your research, ideally using DuckDuckGo for an internet search; the other providers censor natural health strategies and normally the first page(s) are all sponsored by pharma interests.

This website is highly recommended https://drjockers.com

154840 ▶▶ petgor, replying to petgor, 1, #481 of 2191 🔗

Replying to myself, though really it’s an addition. The government must have some idea of the potential deaths caused by the near closure of the NHS, if it is to prepare for the aftermath.

155575 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to petgor, #482 of 2191 🔗

Well, they might bother doing that, but since it looks like we are on our own, it may not be a priority. They can just tote up the deaths as they happen.

154540 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 15, #483 of 2191 🔗

Peru seemed to have the hardest militarily enforced lockdown in the world, which delayed the epidemic but ended up giving the worlds highest death rates. Unsurprising if you spend 5 months immuno-suppressing your population through lack of access to sunlight, fresh air and making them depressed (stress has a major effect on immune systems).

154549 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to steve_w, 5, #484 of 2191 🔗

“BLEEDIN” Obvious to anyone and everyone but : “There’s none so blind as those who don’t want to see”

154553 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Fingerache Philip., 6, #485 of 2191 🔗

the government has given peoples immune systems ‘3 winters in a row’, which cant be good.

I’d be interested to see a breakdown of covid outcomes by ‘access to a garden’

154611 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to steve_w, 2, #486 of 2191 🔗

The obvious responses would likely be:

Just think how much worse it would have been if they hadn’t been so strict.

In fact, maybe they weren’t strict enough. It only got that bad because not enough people were following the rules.

154618 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #487 of 2191 🔗

to which the obvious reply would be ‘it would have been like sweden – that is real world data’

154653 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to steve_w, 2, #488 of 2191 🔗

I would suggest that the epidemic in Peru was not delayed but followed the trajectory for an infection for it’s latitude according to Hope-Simpson.

154558 jakehadlee, replying to jakehadlee, 15, #489 of 2191 🔗

Is it just me or is the fact that you’re now going to be fined £10k for not self-isolating just going to mean that people don’t get tested and put down false information on track-and-trace forms? There is absolutely no chance I’m going give my correct contact information now

154568 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to jakehadlee, #490 of 2191 🔗

In the words of the immortal Bart Simpson: ” You’re dammed if you do and you’re dammed if you don’t”

154574 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to jakehadlee, 8, #491 of 2191 🔗

Absolutely no way I will either. As they’ve also wrecked the economy, meaning that many won’t even get sick pay for being off for two weeks, who would? I’m sure the penny will drop with the public eventually.

Testing and tracing is lose-lose.

154849 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, #492 of 2191 🔗

Trawling through gov legislation website yday, I saw an amendment about sick pay, Actually I was curious now and checked it, but unless you read the original, I do not know what exactly they are amending. It was very brief.

154586 ▶▶ stewart, replying to jakehadlee, 4, #493 of 2191 🔗

It would be wise to assume that, in time, the government will shut down the little loopholes. Assuming they are idiots is just not a good idea.

This has to be confronted head on. The government does not have the right to track and trace us. And unless that is the clear and unequivocal message from us, they are going to get their way.

154606 ▶▶▶ James, replying to stewart, 5, #494 of 2191 🔗

It is a noose. It is all a noose and criticising or mocking it for not being a very good noose is bloody stupid. The machine of tyranny is built slowly and inexorably. And once it is more or less complete it is very hard to stop it.

154809 ▶▶▶ jakehadlee, replying to stewart, 2, #495 of 2191 🔗

Well both would be a good idea. Confront it politically, and civil disobedience. I’ve already told all my friends and family not to name me if they are asked for recent contacts. Before the fine I was happy to give details, as track and trace at least made sense as opposed to masks and lockdown. Now I will do everything I can to circumvent any rules around Covid. I’ve had enough of it.

154791 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to jakehadlee, 2, #496 of 2191 🔗

Thought the new legislation made it illegal to give false information?

Have seen people saying that the police will not be able to cope with the workload of checking people are isolating – but hello? We know GPs have given the NHS people’s phone numbers and also that phones can be tracked – they will likely just track the phones of those who have tested positive, so you would have to be very careful not to take a phone with you if you go out.. They might also monitor the numbers and if the phone keeps being switched off and on, that would arouse suspicion.

Can they tell if people delete previously downloaded apps? Or delete the app info? Do they have the right to visit you and take your phone and check such things?

154842 ▶▶▶ jakehadlee, replying to Carrie, 2, #497 of 2191 🔗

I don’t see how they could have the manpower and resources to do that. I just give a phone number with one digit wrong, then there is the deniability of making a mistake typing it out

155127 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to jakehadlee, #498 of 2191 🔗

They don’t need the manpower – they just develop the software to flag up anything that they deem ‘suspicious’.. and then they send out the police to demand your phone. Remember they can (under the act) remove you from your home if they suspect you are infectious…

154873 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Carrie, 1, #499 of 2191 🔗

and tell ’em to fork off ! 🙂

156519 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, 1, #500 of 2191 🔗

I’m wasted on here …

154880 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Carrie, 2, #501 of 2191 🔗

I think you can safely assume that the government and its agents are not idiots and will in time close down the loopholes.

The only legitimate response to this is outright non-compliance. We have allowed the government to steal from us our responsibility for own health and wellbeing and we need to take it back. Forcefully if necessary.

154561 Lucan Grey, replying to Lucan Grey, 2, #502 of 2191 🔗

“decolonise education”

Shouldn’t we be reserving colostomy bags for those with genuine medical need?

154608 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Lucan Grey, #503 of 2191 🔗

No they have to wait because we need to reserve them for those who Prof Furgesons modelling predicts will need them in 2/4/6 weeks/months time.

154564 tonyspurs, replying to tonyspurs, 14, #504 of 2191 🔗

How long until employers tell their employees they can’t visit pubs,bars, restaurants and public places as they can’t afford for them to be off work self isolating and those that report in self isolating will lose their jobs ??

154781 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to tonyspurs, 1, #505 of 2191 🔗

Or that people ‘choose’ not to socialise in order not to get a positive test and therefore lose income and be more likely to be made redundant…

154802 ▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to tonyspurs, #506 of 2191 🔗

They’re already doing that: one friend has had to sign a new contract, agreeing not to visit anywhere where they can’t socially distance the entire time, or to holiday anywhere locked down or not on the travel corridor.

154937 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Miss Owl, #507 of 2191 🔗

Also illegal.

154967 ▶▶▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #508 of 2191 🔗

Hi Nick, you know that, and I know that: but most people assume their employer has all the legal knowledge and just sign on the dotted …

155119 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Miss Owl, #509 of 2191 🔗

Presume once they have signed then no lawyer can help?

155166 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Carrie, #510 of 2191 🔗

Haven’t the foggiest, to be honest, Carrie. But they were round at ours, not social distancing, which I believe is also against the rules, so don’t think they’re taking too much notice anyway!

154821 ▶▶ Will, replying to tonyspurs, 4, #511 of 2191 🔗

Babysitter cancelled on us on Friday because she had been told by the children’s nursery in which she works that she wasn’t to socialise out of work.

154935 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Will, 1, #512 of 2191 🔗

This is also illegal.

154861 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to tonyspurs, 1, #513 of 2191 🔗

Employers are very scared of getting fines, or are under pressure from their insurance. I do not understand it. Especially in areas where “cases” are very low.

155117 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Silke David, 1, #514 of 2191 🔗

I reckon it is increased insurance premiums that are behind this..

154905 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to tonyspurs, 2, #515 of 2191 🔗

We’ve been told we can’t use public transport. Currently WFH so not a problem currently but potentially will be.

154933 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Ewan Duffy, 4, #516 of 2191 🔗

Thing is, employers have no legal right to control what you do outside working hours. The only exception is if you misbehave while wearing company livery.

154958 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to tonyspurs, 4, #517 of 2191 🔗

I recommend to anybody concerned about this to join a union, or seek legal advice. While a union might be unable to represent you AT WORK, they do get you free access to legal advice and, where necessary, legal action against employers.

I strongly advise you all to do this, even if you are the only employee. At the very least, you have access to the law, through the union.

I repeat: it is ILLEGAL for an employer to control or dictate what you do IN YOUR OWN TIME. Statutory Instruments do NOT overwrite Acts of Parliament.


154570 Garry Mitchell, replying to Garry Mitchell, 10, #518 of 2191 🔗

I emailed my MP yesterday (1st para c/o Peter Hitchens):
Hello Mr MP,
I have noticed that for the past six months you have not been doing the job for which the taxpayer pays you £81,932 a year, plus generous allowances. You have not represented me to the government, or held the government to account. You have not questioned the basis of government policy. You have not criticised policies which have led to the destruction of thousands of businesses and hundreds of thousands of jobs. You have not questioned the greatest restriction of personal liberty in centuries. Do you think people who do not do their jobs should be paid, or continue to be employed? Nor do I. Why then do you imagine that you will continue to be an MP after the next election? Please do the job for which you are so generously rewarded, and do it now.
The government has completely lost the plot over its handling of the coronavirus pandemic and I urge you to vote NOT to renew this legislation next week.
I could bombard you with scientific analysis from respected individuals such as Professors Carl Heneghan, Sunetra Gupta (both of Oxford University) and Karol Sikora, of the University Of Buckingham, but the only link I have included is to a YouTube analysis of how a virus behaves when infecting a population and how the novel SARS COV-2 (COVID-19) is no different to this:
So why the hysterical reaction to it, especially now cases are rising but hospitalisations are not, as evidenced by this graph (taken from the Lockdown Sceptics website ( https://lockdownsceptics.org )?:
[“A picture is worth a thousand words” graph from 26 Sept]
There is no such thing as the eradication of a virus – there are even cases of HIV/AIDS deaths as recently as 2018 which is 37 years after it first emerged ( https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/835144/National_Tables_2019_updated.ods ).
Therefore the government should stop such posturing and let the virus run its natural course by the ending of lockdowns, removal of face covering requirements and stopping social distancing.

I received this automated response:

Thank you for your email. I receive a large number of emails, letters and phone calls each day. We aim to respond to urgent emails and issues where people’s welfare is at stake as quickly as possible, and other queries and policy issues within twenty working days.

I do hope he’s got a but of spare tme in his busy schedule in the next twenty days for a considered response – will keep you posted.

154605 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Garry Mitchell, 6, #519 of 2191 🔗

Great letter!!

154624 ▶▶▶ Garry Mitchell, replying to Victoria, 3, #520 of 2191 🔗

Ta! I don’t expect to be posting a response to it any time soon… if ever!

154646 ▶▶ Suitejb, replying to Garry Mitchell, 4, #521 of 2191 🔗

I got a reply on Friday from my MP to a letter I sent three weeks ago. It wasn’t too bad until the third paragraph which read:
‘Please be assured that the Government is being guided by the best scientific and medical expertise available,’
As I’d mentioned the alternative views of many others with ‘expertise’ I wasn’t remotely assured and am considering writing again and telling her so.

154726 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to Garry Mitchell, -1, #522 of 2191 🔗

Too long.

155043 ▶▶ Binra, replying to Garry Mitchell, 1, #523 of 2191 🔗

Popular belief on HIV and actuality is radically different.
HIV does not cause AIDS is not infectious.
You don’t have to believe me.
Covid is a devolopment of a longstanding ability to define and dictate models, tests and treatments – backed by $$$.

154595 ▶▶ nottingham69, replying to p02099003, 2, #525 of 2191 🔗

Only the NHS stats say otherwise. Fear propaganda.

154573 EllGee, 8, #526 of 2191 🔗

My dear MP, who doesn’t reply to emails, has written on Faceache that he will be voting for extension of powers on Wednesday and he believes Sir Graham’s amendment will not be chosen. As a new influx red/blue wall MP think he can have Peter Hitchins’ comment in his column yesterday

154587 Schrodinger, replying to Schrodinger, 3, #527 of 2191 🔗

It is alleged on social media that the middle aged woman ‘attacked’ by the police was an actor or even a stooge trying to get a reaction from the crowd. A lot of photos emerging that seem to back this up including a video of her talking in a fake/poor Irish accent


154590 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Schrodinger, 10, #528 of 2191 🔗

But even if she is an actor/stooge she was still thrown to the ground by the police, unless they were fake police?

154600 ▶▶▶ Schrodinger, replying to The Spingler, 4, #529 of 2191 🔗

One allegation is that she (although many think that she was a ‘he’) was known to the police and that it was staged to wind up the crowd. At this point it’s not clear but from the bits I’ve seen something ‘doesn’t smell right’. Proceed with caution on this story at present I would say.

154610 ▶▶▶▶ Schrodinger, replying to Schrodinger, 1, #530 of 2191 🔗

Here is a video of her talking afterwards. “The jury is out”, for me


154676 ▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Schrodinger, #531 of 2191 🔗

IMO fake, a bad actress in a bad costume. Then again I wasn’t there but I wouldn’t put it past those in power or those with a lot lose to use stooges or provocateurs to discredit the people participating in a peaceful protest

154685 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Schrodinger, 3, #532 of 2191 🔗

I don’t believe the police and I certainly don’t believe this government. The police over reacted and are trying to wriggle out of it. They even arrested a German doctor who spoke at the rally.

For those who think this is about a virus, it’s not, we are at war!

154776 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Schrodinger, 1, #533 of 2191 🔗

Don’t think it was a ‘he’, but looks younger than initially reported..

154675 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to The Spingler, 1, #534 of 2191 🔗

And ai suppose that was fake blood on the heads of the protestors?

154656 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Schrodinger, #535 of 2191 🔗

If it was claimed she was a martian from outer space who regularly takes tea with Elvis I’m sure the zealots would accept this – as is their way – spin reality into fiction to suite the cause

154699 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Major Panic, 2, #536 of 2191 🔗

Whatever, they didn’t get the reaction they’d hoped for.

154724 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Schrodinger, 3, #537 of 2191 🔗

Always difficult to prove the authenticity of this sort of snippet.

Better to stand back, look at the live feed from Trafalgar Square and listen to Anna Brees’s interviews.

This gives a pretty clear picture that the demonstration was overwhelmingly peaceful (given that there will always be a few dickheads trying to stir things up).

It is also clear that the vast majority of the crowd were peacefully dispersing when the police waded in for no discernible reason, wielding weapons of aggression.

155052 ▶▶▶ Binra, replying to RickH, #538 of 2191 🔗

It was simply peace abiding – no need for overwhelming.
It offered no threat to people or property.
There was no basis for police initiating brutality but intimidation or abuse of power.

154588 Basics, 3, #539 of 2191 🔗

The And Finally graph to-the-moon is a cartoon. Even this micky-take rendering of the graph has a less steep curve than the actual one presented last Monday by the ‘we are your government now’ boys of vested interest notoriety.

154612 RickH, replying to RickH, 4, #540 of 2191 🔗

Disappointing – another distraction re. Laurence Fox at the head of the page.

Internal Tory politics isn’t really the issue.

154625 ▶▶ Ed Phillips, replying to RickH, 11, #541 of 2191 🔗

The government’s lockdown policies are destroying this nation. They need to end. All our energies must be focussed on that one goal.

154631 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Ed Phillips, 2, #542 of 2191 🔗

How will this be done?

154661 ▶▶▶▶ Ed Phillips, replying to Victoria, 2, #543 of 2191 🔗

Victoria, I wish I knew. Not very helpful but there we are.

154712 ▶▶▶▶ James, replying to Victoria, 7, #544 of 2191 🔗

It will be done if we continue to undermine confidence in the MSM narrative. That is already happening all around the world. Because we are conditioned to believe that the powers that be are overwhelmingly powerful and in control we do not attempt to challenge them. It is all a confidence trick. The system looks strong but it is totally corrupt. Corrupt means weak.

The alternative narrative is gaining traction. But because it is not organised and there is so much coordinated attack from the MSM the illusion they are totally in control of the situation is maintained. It is far easier to control people who believe they are powerless. So read widely and deeply. There are more of us than you think.

154649 ▶▶▶ James, replying to Ed Phillips, 8, #545 of 2191 🔗

As I have posted many times in these columns I do not think we will solve the problem by stopping the Lockdown although it might buy time. The UK does not live in a vacuum and this manufactured health crisis is a world wide issue. There is far more at stake here than the temporary suspension of economic activity and the effective closure of our health service. Thinking about this needs to become less reactionary and much more profound. On my more optimistic days I think we can come out of this better. But to imagine that simply calling our pathetic government to account, satisfying as that might be, will solve the problem is naive. The corruption goes so deep it is hard for me to get my head around. But I know I need to try. I think we all do and if there are enough of us we can still
save this world.

154660 ▶▶▶▶ Ed Phillips, replying to James, 3, #546 of 2191 🔗

I agree with this too.

154838 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to James, 4, #547 of 2191 🔗

We have to start somewhere. Would rather be in Sweden than in UK. Every country that demonstrates it can live close to normality is a strong argument to turn the tide

154952 ▶▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to James, 2, #548 of 2191 🔗

Good post.

154648 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to RickH, 6, #549 of 2191 🔗

well we are more likely (although not yet) to get some lockdown scepticism from this new party than we are from the predictably shite labour party

154698 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Major Panic, 3, #550 of 2191 🔗

Control your frothing incontinence. Who mentioned the Labour Party in some babyish tit-for-tat? (And BTW, you won’t find me anywhere here defending the Labour Party – which, I agree, is running the Tories close in the shite stakes).

The point I’m making is that this Fox thing is a side-issue in the overarching concerns of this totalitarianism. Have a look at the coverage from Saturday’s Trafalgar Square rally : there is a wide range of individuals involved; that solidarity is more important than sectarian argy-bargy.

In practical terms, the initiative might have some value as a pressure group in putting pressure on the Tories – but as a political party , it’s already dead, having set out its narrow sectarian stall

154851 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, 1, #551 of 2191 🔗

In practical terms, the initiative might have some value as a pressure group in putting pressure on the Tories” Yes, this is possible and to that extent it may work in our favour. OTOH having an overtly “right wing” party be the only one to come out strongly against lockdown may just do more harm than good, making our case easier to attack in the mainstream.

154913 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, #552 of 2191 🔗

Control your frothing incontinence. Who mentioned the Labour Party in some babyish tit-for-tat ?”

Just highlighting that bit for Sylvie, who claimed earlier that conservatives were the ones commenting here “stridently and defensively”, or some such.

In practical terms, the initiative might have some value as a pressure group in putting pressure on the Tories – but as a political party , it’s already dead, having set out its narrow sectarian stall

If the short term objective is, as it should be, trying to push the government away from the coronapanic policies, putting pressure on the Tories is exactly what is needed, since they have a solid majority and no need to face the electorate in a substantive election for several years.

As fro the suggestion that “as a party it’s already dead” because it has adopted a political position outside the establishment parties, that is of course exactly what was said about the Labour Party in the early C20th, and what then happened is what this country desperately needs to have happen again – the replacement of the centre left “Conservative” Party with a party that actually represents conservatives, traditionalists and patriots.

Of course, it’s not guaranteed to succeed (far from it, though eventually some party will succeed in this, because it is necessary). But to assert that it is inherently impossible is pretty silly, and refuted by the experience of the Labour Party.

155573 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Mark, #553 of 2191 🔗

At least you eschew stridency (most days) 🙂

155497 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Major Panic, #554 of 2191 🔗

What is the point of an afterthought? “Oh, and we don’t like lockdown either”? Easy to back away from once you get the support you wanted.

Ending this madness goes front and centre.

154687 ▶▶ stewart, replying to RickH, 1, #555 of 2191 🔗

The question is where he stands on the issue of government stealing our right to make our own healthcare decisions.

154623 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 4, #556 of 2191 🔗

The new Reclaim party is fantastic news (and the huge donations it received).

Many voters who are disillusioned with conservatives and labour now have an option to consider. A new party that challenges the government on rights, liberties and free speech (under umbrella of culture) is desperately needed.

Register you interest here

154644 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Victoria, 6, #557 of 2191 🔗

“As you may or may not know, David Kurten – London Assembly member and London mayoral candidate (ex-UKIP) has formed a new ‘right-of-centre’ political party – The Heritage Party. This is currently awaiting the ‘blessing’ of the Electoral Commission (good luck with that David!) Here is the link to their website: https://www.heritageparty.org/

David Kurten and Lawrence Fox need to get together, and join forces. They’re fighting the same fight.

154669 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Lms23, 5, #558 of 2191 🔗

It’s ridiculous to have so many splinter groups fighting the same war. They need to consolidate under one banner or it will be a wasted opportunity.

154683 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #559 of 2191 🔗

This may well come. It happened after the plethora of new political parties that sprang up in the aftermath of the Maastricht Treaty. But for mergers to happen, these new parties must first become aware of each other.

154703 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #560 of 2191 🔗

They are in plain sight Nick. All they need to do is reach out or for someone to act as broker.

154744 ▶▶▶▶ JohnMac, replying to Bella Donna, #561 of 2191 🔗


154910 ▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Lms23, #562 of 2191 🔗

Nooo… I couldn’t support a party with any links to UKIP 🙁

155076 ▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to The Spingler, #563 of 2191 🔗

Then die of your own self superiority.

  1. Human beings come in every kind of personality or background. If you choose to engage in personality you lockdown yourself in your mask.
  2. The issue is aligning in common interest to deny a fake ‘Common Purpose’, running mind-control through guilt and fear manipulation.
  3. The nature of regaining a foundation from which to question the ‘Caesar’ of the day – which is a globalist monopoly deceit, is willingness to recognise and release allegiance to the ‘divide and be ruled’ of a polarised identity.
155492 ▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Binra, #564 of 2191 🔗

How about neither of those parties have anything substantial, if anything at all, to say about lockdown, the issue that is the point of this website?

Talk about “self-superiority”. What will those parties do about the destruction of our economy and culture? Sweet F all as far as I can see.

Please provide links to their platforms, proposals, whatever, with ending this madness as number 1 on the list.

154627 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 5, #565 of 2191 🔗

Establish a peoples scientific and medical panel I call upon the Government to establish a peoples scientific and medical panel to scrutinise the scientific and medical advice that is given to the Government. This panel will contain bona fide, qualified medical and scientific professionals and will be selected by the people.

154735 ▶▶ James, replying to Victoria, 1, #566 of 2191 🔗

I think that would help. But asking the tyrant to participate in he is own downfall is foolish. This needs to be set up as having de facto and possibly De jure authority and then you run with it. Eventually people will start paying attention. This is a publicity war. You only need a few sceptical and relatively eminent scientists and doctors who have the guts to take in authority to stand together and people will rally to the flag.

154634 Lms23, replying to Lms23, 11, #567 of 2191 🔗


Are America’s Wuhan virus death rates lies, damn lies, and statistics?
“….another piece of evidence has emerged indicating that the U.S. is grossly overcounting the number of people who died from the Wuhan virus. It turns out that, while the U.S. attributed all pneumonia fatalities to the virus, Singapore, which had the lowest fatality count in the world, did not.
The most significant way, though, that Singapore parted ways from other countries – including America – is that it counted deaths according to a narrow, WHO-approved formula:

Singapore sticks rigidly to the WHO’s case definitions for classifying Covid-19 deaths. It does not include non-pneumonia fatalities like those caused by blood or heart issues among Covid-19 patients in its official tally.

“I have no doubt that if the WHO revises its case definitions, some of the non-pneumonia deaths will be reclassified and the mortality rate will change,” said Paul Tambyah, president of the Asia Pacific Society of Clinical Microbiology and Infection, without specifying how much it would likely shift.

Todd Lowdon decided to calculate America’s Wuhan virus death count using the standard that the WHO set and Singapore followed. The results were stunning:

Todd Lowdon
26 Sep
Singapore follows WHO guidelines & doesn’t include non-pneumonia fatalities in its death counts. If the US did the same, we’d have reported only 86,000 COVID-19 deaths so far, or 45% of the 190,000 certified by the CDC as of 9/25.

What’s ironic is that, when it comes to any discussions about treatments for the Wuhan virus or the virus’s infectiousness, the tech giants have been shutting down information that doesn’t come from WHO. For them, WHO is the gold standard.

It’s entirely likely, though, that if the CDC were suddenly to start counting virus deaths in America according to the WHO standard, which would drop the death count from 200,000 (“Trump is going to kill you”) to 86,000 (“it’s just a bad flu season”), the tech giants would scream more loudly than anyone else.

And of course, the number of deaths from the virus would drop even more if we were able to subtract all the other deaths that found their way into the statistics because someone died from another cause entirely, but tested positive for the virus:

For months doctors and investigative journalists have wondered why state coronavirus death counts include motorcycle accidents, homicides, birth defects, gunshot wounds and thousands of intentional injuries and poisonings to the US Coronavirus death totals.

It’s almost as if the medical elites are doing all they can to pad the coronavirus death counts?….”

155087 ▶▶ Binra, replying to Lms23, 1, #568 of 2191 🔗

No it isn’t ‘almost as if’.
A cartel of $$$$$$$$$ elitism operates a boot on your face via a broad spectrum of control.
The leverage of $ is the system or currency of value exchange, but is become the means to attack, undermine and deny Human value – in exchange for robotic compliance as lab rats.

154643 Silke David, replying to Silke David, 4, #569 of 2191 🔗

Re the Self Isolation after coming into contact new regulations.
Will people be informed of all the reasons why they can leave the house ? I guess not.

Close contact for more than 15 minutes.
If the App does not include an option to check out, and who will remember to do that?, lots of people will be contacted who either were there before or hours after the “infected” person was at the premises. Or on the premises for less than 15 minutes.
So many people could potentially be told to isolate for 14 days (even Drosten says you only need 7 days now) totally unnecessarily. At what cost to the economy, state, mental health?

154654 ▶▶ Eamon, replying to Silke David, 4, #570 of 2191 🔗

Worse, the premises are normally meant to be COVID safe.
It makes no sense.

154730 ▶▶ LS99, replying to Silke David, 1, #571 of 2191 🔗

My thoughts exactly David. I work from home so if I go to get a takeaway coffee from Costa first thing in the morning and then go home, presumably I’m assumed to be in contact with everyone else who goes to Costa that day or maybe it doesn’t even check you out at the end of the day!

154738 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to LS99, 2, #572 of 2191 🔗

Can you go to a drive through for a nice coffee? I’m now actively avoiding hospitality.

154773 ▶▶▶ Ozzie, replying to LS99, 2, #573 of 2191 🔗

Am I missing something? Why take your phone – will Costa refuse entry without it?

154850 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ozzie, 1, #574 of 2191 🔗

Sainsburys say they have been told they have 6 weeks to implement the QR codes..

154647 NorthumbrianNomad, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 13, #575 of 2191 🔗

I sent the excellent, furious article by Peter Hitchens to a friend in Australia the other day, and today I received a reply. It’s a mock-up of a poster with somebody wearing a mask, and the caption “JUST WEAR A F***ING MASK”. My friend had made the mistake of leaving the entire email conversation appended to the message, so I could see that she had asked for this link because she’d been about to “put some relatives and friends straight” but then thought, “Why bother?” So she would send this poster instead. And celebrating how “perfectly Australian” the poster was. Funny, I didn’t know that it was “perfectly Australian” to shut down rational debate with totalitarian putdowns. Seems I have one friend less, in this world, sadly.

154662 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 5, #576 of 2191 🔗

Always a shock when you find out…

154706 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 7, #577 of 2191 🔗

Send back the image of the sheep mask.
Say nothing else.

154732 ▶▶ JPF, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 1, #578 of 2191 🔗

Send him this, I think it’s an excellent response to people like that:

154671 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #580 of 2191 🔗

An MP on the Today Programme this morning would not answer when asked whether house of commons bars closed at 10pm, seems they are classed as cafeterias.

154674 ▶▶▶ Roadrash, replying to karenovirus, 1, #581 of 2191 🔗

Presumably they serve peanuts and crisps.

154678 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Roadrash, 1, #582 of 2191 🔗

At least the urban myth of urine laden peanuts can be put to rest and replaced with hand sanitiser laden peanuts.

154673 ▶▶ Roadrash, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #583 of 2191 🔗

Can we all pile down to the Commons bars at 10.01?

154681 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #584 of 2191 🔗

Very Soviet Russia.

155120 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to stewart, #585 of 2191 🔗

Yes, they should be renamed Zil bars.

154745 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #586 of 2191 🔗

and dont forget, these bars (and restaurants) are subsidised.

154804 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #587 of 2191 🔗

‘Classed as a workplace canteen’. So, a micro brewery pub would be the same then – attached to a workplace? Or maybe just get some renovation work going at all pubs, fairly slow work, of course.

154857 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bella Donna, #588 of 2191 🔗

And this – civil service club in Whitehall: https://twitter.com/Fitz11Fitz/status/1310492358019108864

154663 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 4, #589 of 2191 🔗

BBC R4 news. Andy Burnham
“10pm pub curfew is doing more harm than good as people pour out onto the streets in search of more alcohol”.

Solution “close supermarkets at 9pm”.

154668 ▶▶ Roadrash, replying to karenovirus, 8, #590 of 2191 🔗

its the General Melchett guide to strategy isn’t it. I.e. “ it’s the same plan we used last time and the 17 times before that”.

154708 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to karenovirus, 3, #591 of 2191 🔗

Think we might need to start mass extermination of humans to prevent coronavirus.

154717 ▶▶ Basics, replying to karenovirus, 9, #592 of 2191 🔗

Hancock play book. Hancock on Marr Sunday before yesterday.

Marr: lockdowns don’t work.
Cock: they do
Marr: take Oldham, locked down for 4 weeks cases have doubled.
Cock: Ah well the problem there is the lockdown has not been enforced hard enough.

154758 ▶▶▶ Gerry Mandarin, replying to Basics, 5, #593 of 2191 🔗

Answer for socialists is always more socialism.

154792 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 1, #594 of 2191 🔗

I din’t disagree and note the conservative and unionist party was representated by one half of the conversation.

154855 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Basics, 4, #595 of 2191 🔗

Clearly the only reason that the Peru lockdown hasn’t worked is that it wasn’t enforced strictly enough and the muzzle and visor wearing must have been too lax.

155094 ▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Basics, 2, #596 of 2191 🔗

The underlying message is “You are our prisoner and we will enforce this upon you all until you comply by habit or die in resistance.

155481 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Binra, #597 of 2191 🔗

2 + 2 = 5

154665 Roadrash, replying to Roadrash, 4, #598 of 2191 🔗

Meanwhile, “ the pub curfew isn’t working!” Solution? “We need more curfew!”



154672 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Roadrash, 3, #599 of 2191 🔗

The solution is to make every citizen a politician and redefine every pub/bar as a workplace canteen.

154915 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #600 of 2191 🔗

Could a pub ’employ’ say, a few hundred people. Zero hours contracts of course, but gives you access to the ‘works canteen’ whenever you want.

154718 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Roadrash, 2, #601 of 2191 🔗

It does seem that the misuse of the word curfew here when we are talking about forced pub closing times is quite deliberate to introduce the word to us so we become familiar with being subjected to ‘curfew’. Overtime it will become ‘obvious’ we ‘need’ a proper curfew.

154729 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Saved To Death, #602 of 2191 🔗

Seems to be working as there is a mad rush to get off the streets when the pubs kick out

154742 ▶▶ court, replying to Roadrash, 3, #603 of 2191 🔗

I know it sounds silly but I’m stocking up on booze ready for when prohibition happens. The signs are there, but if I’m wrong I’m no worse off.

To have to deal with all this idiocy without booze doesn’t bear thinking about!

154756 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to court, 2, #604 of 2191 🔗

prohibition will never happen. The government need the tax revenue. But they dont care where you pay it so they can happily close the pubs so people drink at home and buy from supermarkets.
Same with ciggies. These kill people but with something stupid like £8 duty on a packet of fags the government know that this brings in more revenue than the additional costs of health care.

154827 ▶▶▶▶ GAW, replying to mjr, 4, #605 of 2191 🔗

I’m not sure the government care too much about tax revenue any more. If they did, then they wouldn’t have crashed the economy

155479 ▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to GAW, #606 of 2191 🔗

They found the magic money tree so no need for taxes.

154667 Winston Smith, replying to Winston Smith, 54, #607 of 2191 🔗

The best thing for the country and everyone living in it is:-

1. Stop testing
2. End all coronavirus restrictions
3. Stop all mask propaganda
4. Provide free counselling for people who are afraid of Covid19

We will then get back to normal.

155161 ▶▶ annie, replying to Winston Smith, 3, #608 of 2191 🔗

Please become PM.

154670 Darryl, replying to Darryl, 12, #609 of 2191 🔗

It’s quite telling that apart from James Delingpole I can’t find a single well know journalist, celebrity or human rights organisation who has retweeted the violence perpetrated against peaceful anti-lock down protestors on Saturday. Are they unaware or just turning a blind eye for their government paymasters? shame on them all.

154686 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Darryl, 5, #610 of 2191 🔗

Of course they won’t.
We’re all just far-right, conspiracy theory nutcases….who might possibly be correct in our assertions.

154753 ▶▶ James, replying to Darryl, 3, #611 of 2191 🔗

If you want to win a war what better way than to become the opposition. Gates and his friends seem to have completely infiltrated every aspect of our media. These are seriously smart people.

154677 Suitejb, replying to Suitejb, 4, #612 of 2191 🔗

Why are students getting themselves tested? Am I missing something?

154716 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Suitejb, 1, #613 of 2191 🔗

Perhaps they think if they are negative they will be excused lockdown, they won’t.

At least 12 Universities have sourced their own tests and are routinely using these.

154764 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to karenovirus, 1, #614 of 2191 🔗

However, in getting tested they are contributing to the government’s national DNA database… Matt Hancock announced the project the other day..

154775 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Suitejb, 2, #615 of 2191 🔗

Woke ways willfully won’t rationalise. The young have been attacked by propaganda for years. Also they are locked up in a myre of peer pressure that is exceptionally hard to unshackle from especially when you are living with those peers as inmates.

I have full sympathy for their plight – I would be breaking windows, running roof tops or tunneling to get away from the hostage taking universities.

154831 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 3, #616 of 2191 🔗

I said this last night to OH – strangeways prison – get on the roof hang out the windows shout their message – we are not ill or contagious!!!

Hostages are optional

154896 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, #617 of 2191 🔗

Some were interviewed on R4 news this morning, getting pretty stroppy but in a me me me sort of way.

154825 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Suitejb, #618 of 2191 🔗

They may not have been presented with a choice.

154682 Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, 20, #619 of 2191 🔗

Just found this comment below Lord Sumption’s article in the Daily Mail.

Seriously we need a wake up here. Our government is ramping up fear but based on nonsense!!! Currently the UK has…. Search on google for: How many NHS hospitals are there in the UK in 2019? 1,257 hospitals Number of NHS hospitals Correct as of September 2019, there are 1,257 hospitals in the UK. This includes the NHS trust-managed hospitals and the additional private hospitals that are currently in use. BUT currently we have, Search on google for: Patients admitted for COVID 1,081 Number of COVID-19 patients currently in hospital being treated. 1257 NHS hospitals 1081 COVID patients admitted and in treatment. Last updated on Monday 21 September 2020 at 4:00pm LESS THAN 1 PERSON PER NHS HOSPITAL IN THE UK! Patients on ventilation 138 Last updated on Monday 21 September 2020 at 4:00pm So out of 66,000,000 people just 1081 people are being treated, 138 of which are on ventilators in 1257 hospitals. Thank Goodness we saved the NHS! This is not a second wave.

154693 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Ozzie, 8, #620 of 2191 🔗

We don’t actually know if the 1081 people are being treated for COVID or they have a positive test and are being treated for something else.

154695 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #621 of 2191 🔗

I suspect many are in the latter category.

154704 ▶▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #622 of 2191 🔗

Agreed – but the real point is that hospitals are hardly having to deal with any COVID patients at all – the average is less than one patient. Hardly a reason for any government intervention.

154731 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Ozzie, 6, #623 of 2191 🔗

They are denying us a proper health service. I don’t call a video call medical care.

155105 ▶▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Bella Donna, #624 of 2191 🔗

NHS is gone, and CHS is fully PPP and being reset. Doctors to be replaced by screen and smart based ‘diagnosis’ and tracked and traced ‘treatments’.
Responsibility for health might start with ‘What really makes you ill’ – a fat book but might deprogram the mind enough to allow some light to come in.

155111 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Binra, #625 of 2191 🔗

‘Treatments’ based on your DNA once they have everyone’s?

154696 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Ozzie, 3, #626 of 2191 🔗

Great statistic! There is less than one COVID patient per hospital.

154728 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to stewart, #627 of 2191 🔗

I posted 2 hours ago, ours has gone from 0-1 per week to 5 over the weekend.
Really ill or bumping up the stats dunno 🤔

154736 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to stewart, 1, #628 of 2191 🔗

Oh noooo it’s disastrous, it hasn’t been eradicated! 😉 . Keep isolating folks, destroy lives.

154689 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 17, #629 of 2191 🔗

Put in a comaplint to the Advertising Standards Authority:

“The latest Government track and trace advert is misleading. A “positive test” means zero medically, I have this confirmed in writing from the DHSC FOI answer so “taking a test” will NOT “keep everyone safe”. Any advert that says this is either misleading the listener/viewer or deliberately distorting test ruth. Copy of FOI attached.”

Thye ignored the last one a few months ago so I thought what the hell. Same to go to OFCOM about similar I think.

154714 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #630 of 2191 🔗

They can’t ignore it if enough of us complain. Are you able to post the contents of the FOI please?

154692 Lms23, replying to Lms23, 7, #631 of 2191 🔗

Douglas Murray: ‘Our police have become highly politicised’
Douglas Murray talking to JHB on Talk Radio earlier this morning.

154705 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Lms23, 7, #632 of 2191 🔗

Yes. And political policing loses consent. Your frontline PCs know that. Your upper levels seem unconcerned by it. If politicised policing continues they will only be able to police by force. The frontline police know that.

154722 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Lms23, 3, #633 of 2191 🔗

This was obvious last year if anyone was watching as they stood by and let XR shut down large parts of London for over a week.

154694 Basics, replying to Basics, 14, #634 of 2191 🔗

‘You do not imagine, I hope, that we pigs are doing this in a spirit of selfishness and privilege… ‘The whole management and organisation of this farm depend on us. Day and night we are watching over your welfare. It is for your sake that we drink the milk… ‘ — Animal Farm

Parliament Bars are exempt from curfew.


154759 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 2, #635 of 2191 🔗

Says it all…

154793 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Basics, 3, #636 of 2191 🔗

How can the HoC honestly endorse keeping their restaurants and bars open after 10pm when otherwise enforced throughout the country. Have they no shame!?
I’m speechless if this is true – should be told in all the papers and see how much support this rotten cabal receive by the ordinary bloke.

154796 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sue, 1, #637 of 2191 🔗

Also plenty of photos about of government ministers and MPs not wearing masks and not social distancing..

154860 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Sue, 1, #638 of 2191 🔗

The link shows the press coverage of the fact. Curfew doesnt not apply to the pigs in h o p

154818 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Basics, 1, #639 of 2191 🔗

A lovely quote.

154862 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #640 of 2191 🔗

Credit to the twitter guy/gal for selecting it.

154820 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Basics, 4, #641 of 2191 🔗


Maybe every office and factory and shop in the UK should open a “workplace canteen” with a licensed bar.

154707 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 6, #642 of 2191 🔗

Hang on a minute, it was you that locked them up in the first place you stupid ignorant pig


154741 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Cecil B, 9, #643 of 2191 🔗

On that page is the rule of 3 bollocks
1. Wash your hands
2. Use a tissue for coughs
3. Avoid touching your face

3 things my mum told me to do and 2 things impossible to do if wearing a muzzle

154771 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Cecil B, 7, #644 of 2191 🔗

“If these lockdowns are only going to last a matter of weeks maybe it isn’t quite as bad, but if it’s going to go on week after week we need to think about those single-person households.” I would like him to revisit his words – ‘a matter of weeks isn’t so bad’, how can he be so flippant about this, these are law abiding people, and not everyone is living in a home with a large garden, though that does not change matters. Denying people human contact after 6 months of the assault on our mental well being from this farce could be the last straw for some. He needs to be tgreatened with manslaughter if one person dies from this policy, I am quite sick and tired of this assault on our population, whether masks, disrupted education, lockdown etc with no analysis or accountability for the consequences. Sorry, rant over.

154794 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nsklent, #645 of 2191 🔗

And do we think the boatloads of people that have crossed the channel are self-isolating????

155475 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Nsklent, 4, #646 of 2191 🔗

I live alone and have no local connections. Six months of this has been terrible for my mental health, which wasn’t perfect to begin with. I do go to my allotment almost every day, but not being able to go near other people has made me paranoid and self-isolating. I don’t expect the government to care. In fact, I don’t expect anyone to care. I decided a while back to cut myself off completely from other people since the masks freak me out and not knowing where someone stands on masks makes me reluctant to speak to anyone. This is what these policies are creating – a whole population of people like me. At least I have the excuse of childhood abuse and neglect.

154715 Smelly Melly, replying to Smelly Melly, 2, #648 of 2191 🔗

In the video of the protest in London on Saturday I spotted the red helmet of the military police. So its official we are now a military dictatorship.

154749 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Smelly Melly, 2, #649 of 2191 🔗

Thanks, I didn’t know the significance of that, as I saw the red cap and wondered why.

154901 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nsklent, #650 of 2191 🔗

Not so sure. I thought the different coloured caps and helmets showed rank/function etc. ?

154795 ▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to Smelly Melly, 2, #651 of 2191 🔗

Do you mean the red baseball style cap? If you do; don’t talk such rot. It’s not the RMP but a police officer rather than a constable or sergeant.

154882 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Smelly Melly, #652 of 2191 🔗

I wondered about that, thought it might be a unit commander or somesuch.

154932 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to karenovirus, #653 of 2191 🔗

Yes, me too – one of the two I spotted had his hands on the backs of two cops (part of a large wedge) obviously urging the wedge forward.

154740 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 5, #654 of 2191 🔗

How the tests work.

Interesting that it confirms that it is useful for diagnosing an infection but not if someone has had it and recovered. Surely on that basis, if this mad campaign to test more is to continue, every positive test should immediately be followed by an antibody test?
comment image

154752 ▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Sarigan, 4, #655 of 2191 🔗

Yes, I believe in parts of the US – certainly some major US sports, they have adapted their policy, after 77 NFL players tested [apparently] positive, on the verge of cancelling a chunk of their season; yet 1-2 days later it was announced every one of them turned out to be a false result. Basically a positive test is now looked at as a screening tool, to be followed up with another test via another lab… only after a “confirmed” positive, then the person would be isolated & dealt with appropriately. Haven’t heard of any issues at all since they have adapted these testing methods.

154787 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Stringfellow Hawke, 1, #656 of 2191 🔗

Repeat double digits seem suspicious to me in these times. 33 obviously the central one. 77 – show me proof is my attitude.

154998 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Basics, 3, #657 of 2191 🔗

I’ll give you thumbs up to cancel the thumbs down.

Too many times have certain numbers “appeared” over an dover again to be mere coincidence.

33 has definite occult meanings within certain segments of society.

155075 ▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Stringfellow Hawke, #658 of 2191 🔗

Thanks – the link is here – nice example of false +ves.
We need some Premier League instances in the UK to give the younger generation examples of what’s going on with PCR testing

155200 ▶▶▶▶ peter, replying to BTLnewbie, #659 of 2191 🔗

St Mirren a good example, six coaches tested positive, then went to another location and all tested negative. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-53524205

154867 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Sarigan, 6, #660 of 2191 🔗

No. There should be no testing at all and we should go back to diagnosing symptoms.
We need to reject the idea that the government has the right to control our health. Our health is our responsibility, not the government’s.

154747 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #661 of 2191 🔗

As of just now there have been 428 pieces of coronavirus as part of the title enacted, all but 4 being Statutory Instruments.

Steve Baker needs to update his numbers as he thought there was just over 200 if I remember his interview a few days ago.

154763 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Awkward Git, #662 of 2191 🔗

That’s what I thought!

154750 Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, 3, #663 of 2191 🔗

Lots of sceptical comments (most liked) on the Sun article that is referenced above. Is the tide turning?


154805 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to Ozzie, 6, #664 of 2191 🔗

I keep thinking it is and then read or see something which sends me back into total despair.

154811 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Now More Than Ever, 6, #665 of 2191 🔗

It is turning but possibly also becoming more polarised. I think the govt and their collaborators in science, the media and quangoland are turning up the heat because they can see the argument is slipping away from them, and the pro-lockdown public are becoming more hard core in their support as the waverers are whittled away and become sceptical.

154835 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Julian, 6, #666 of 2191 🔗

Same in Germany.
On the day a top neurologist warns against masks and news that a second child has likely died because of wearing one, the cities are demanding a wider and stronger mask mandate.
Same in the media, they are doubling and tripling down now on their failed course of action and panic mongering.

155277 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Julian, #667 of 2191 🔗

There is often a tendency for people to become partisan as a situation develops. The same thing happened with Brexit.

154859 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Ozzie, 1, #668 of 2191 🔗

As far as I can see, there are more measures, the measure are more draconian and there is ever less justification for them. Does that qualify as a turning tide?

155045 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to stewart, #669 of 2191 🔗

I believe that some people think that just because the government is ramping up the lockdown so the Covid must be getting worse, crazy I know put people.

154751 Al Pipp, replying to Al Pipp, 5, #670 of 2191 🔗

COVID is now ENDEMIC. The only way to eliminate COVID is for a severe world wide lockdown – no mixing no sex no food production etc – and this would lead to mass starvation. In farming, foot n mouth is eliminated with kill zones and zero movement zones. Wonder if the gov will go to “kill zones”?

The vaccine would control outbreaks but not eliminate COVID.

So let’s tell SAGE, we just need to protect the over 75’s and healthworkers must wear full protective equipment when working with the elderly.

COVID is endemic and it is not a pandemic.

154761 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Al Pipp, 5, #671 of 2191 🔗

Is there any evidence that suggests a severe world wide lockdown even would eliminate COVID. I realise that you are not making a serious suggestion but you are still buying into the lockdown must work because fallacy.

154808 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Saved To Death, 2, #672 of 2191 🔗

For all practical purposes lockdowns don’t work if by working you mean elimination. A theoretical 100% cessation of human activity for a few weeks might work, but would kill the patient.

Lockdowns probably do slow the spread a bit – but don’t need to be draconian to do so – look at Sweden. The slight increase in +ve tests in some countries is consistent with their lockdowns having slowed the spread to an extent.

154893 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Julian, 3, #673 of 2191 🔗

I see the statement ‘Lockdowns probably do slow the spread’ as being similar ‘Masks worn by surgical staff probably reduce the risk of infection to the patient’. It is a very reasonable sounding hypothesis and does seem almost obvious. Yet the evidence suggests that may not be true. The evidence suggests the masks may even increase the infection risk. Personally I don’t think slight variations in +ve tests tells us much there are so many other variables involved. It would obviously be quite difficult to design experiments to give good evidence here.

I am of the opinion anyway that even if we had good evidence lockdown slowed the spread it should still never be considered as a matter of principle. In my opinion no virus could harm us as much as a government given free rein to save us from a virus even if it was going to overwhelm the NHS.

154904 ▶▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Saved To Death, 1, #674 of 2191 🔗

Even if you agree on the basic principle that reducing social interaction will limit the spread of Coronavirus the point for me is that is true of all infectious diseases. As long as the health care system can cope you don’t need to worry about it.

155405 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Achilles, #675 of 2191 🔗

Totally agree

155302 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Julian, #676 of 2191 🔗

Lockdowns work in the same way that holding your breath works. They both work like flicking a light switch. Either they are on and working or they are off and not working.

155409 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Nobody2020, #677 of 2191 🔗

Only justification is if the breather they give you allows you go put in place measures (vaccine, treatment, critical care) that allow you to cope better, provided that the length of the lockdown is in proportion to the benefit, given the high health cost of lockdowns. The bar has been set far too low.

154762 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Al Pipp, 4, #678 of 2191 🔗

Or we don’t do any of that. Even with the elderly. Because we haven’t done that with the flu and the CDC just came out and confirmed “It’s Just the Flu Bro”

154864 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Al Pipp, 1, #679 of 2191 🔗

An economic calamity would end this craziness.
The real danger is that the economy limps forward and the government and their media stooges claim it was their measures that saved the day. That is the real risk.

154766 PaulH, replying to PaulH, 8, #680 of 2191 🔗

“Matt Ridley and David Davis point out that a groundbreaking new study shows regular does of Vitamin D can cut the mortality rate from COVID-19 by 50%”

This was obvious from Day 1. Vitamin D is excellent against all these respiratory viruses.

But they obviously aren’t interested in cheap and effective measures like this.

There’s no profit or control in them.

154801 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to PaulH, 3, #681 of 2191 🔗

I fully believe this, but am a little wary about publicising it on the net, because the next thing will be that the government/big pharma intervene in some way to make supplements suddenly ‘unavailable’ or prohibitively expensive..

154832 ▶▶▶ Ross Hendry, replying to Carrie, 2, #682 of 2191 🔗

The EU/Big Pharma Lobby tried that a while back. Didn’t work then but they’ll try again given half a chance…

154845 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ross Hendry, 2, #683 of 2191 🔗

I know – led in part to Rob Verkerk setting up the Alliance for Natural Health..

155389 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Carrie, #684 of 2191 🔗

I bought this year’s supply about a month ago (only take it over the winter). Might want to go ahead and do that yourselves if you haven’t already.

155025 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to PaulH, 1, #685 of 2191 🔗

My mum (nurse, trained in WW2) used chuck me in the garden if I came home with a sniffle, “get some sunshine and vitamin D”.

154767 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #686 of 2191 🔗

Going through this legislation:
The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (Obligations of Undertakings) (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2020

It’s not a blanket £10000 fine as commonly quoted but “a fixed penalty of up to £10,000.”

This bit “ A person responsible for carrying on a business of a public house, café, restaurant or bar (including a bar in a hotel or members’ club) must, during the emergency period, take all reasonable measures to stop—

singing on the premises by customers in groups of more than six;” I guess mean that as long a you are in groups of six and separated you could all sing as groups songs – maybe different, maybe the same song by coincidence, and the responsible person will not breaking the law.

The legislation dos not forbid you from singing, just says the responsible person must stop you in groups larger than 6 from doing it.

154814 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Awkward Git, #687 of 2191 🔗

Even the BBC news is reporting £1,000 fines rising to £10k. repeat offenders/ non-compliance.

154847 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #688 of 2191 🔗

It’s nice to know the loopholes, but wouldn’t it be better to challenge forcefully the government’s authority to ban singing? What is this Taliban Afghanistan?

154865 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to stewart, 4, #689 of 2191 🔗

Turning out that way. Or everything enjoyable will go underground.

Good to know these things if I ever do visit a pub in coming weeks/months – doubtful as I’m not going to spend money where I am not enjoying it – but the publicans, BBPA , FSB, cafes etc should know these things but don’t bother to check as individuals and the trade bodies don’t give a shit and are going along with ti quite merrily.

I know, I’ve contacted them and not one has answered in 5 months so they have no interest in protecting or helping their members through this.

155385 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to stewart, #690 of 2191 🔗

A bad remake of Footloose, only with singing instead of dancing?

154768 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 5, #691 of 2191 🔗

Wouldn’t it be easier to eliminate the whole population of the world?

Me and the OH volunteer to go last

154774 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Cecil B, 6, #692 of 2191 🔗

If it saves one life…

154785 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Cecil B, 1, #693 of 2191 🔗

Think I’ll go first.

154772 JPF, 1, #694 of 2191 🔗

I think this is excellent “food for thought” to send to any true believers that you know:

154777 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 10, #695 of 2191 🔗

I think it was Richard Dawkins that used the term ‘Arms Race’, referring to evolution; you know, prey gets quicker, predator learns to catch up; food grows higher, animal gets taller. That’s the situation we are in – whatever we discover, they will move to shut it down. I’m willing to bet that, if mask exemption was widely taken up (sadly it won’t be), the exemptions would be removed or severely curtailed. Their language is already changing about ‘emerging evidence’ for efficacy of masks, and the guidance about “In certain circumstances, masks might have a small effect” has now lost the word ‘small’.

By far the best, everyday non-statistical barometer has been supermarket workers; anyone can see that they’ve been there all the way, without keeling over. So, what do we get? Compulsory masks for shop workers, even though they are behind plastic screens. Bunter and his pals are steadily dismantling our arguments – even though they are correct. Genuine death or illness is now rare, so they swap in ‘cases’ and ‘infections’, in order to get their way.

This government is a petulant child, that will break its own toy, before it lets you play with it. They are getting more insidious by the minute: are pubs and restaurants shut? No, of course not, they are just intolerable to visit – “See, we didn’t close the pubs, honest”. Me and Lady Sybil had to carefully plan a day out for a walk yesterday, based around not being able to go for a pee anywhere, without mask hassle. To be fair, a lot of that hassle is coming from the ‘Second Wave of Supermarket Karens’, but it certainly isn’t being countered by Bunter. Where are the government bulletins saying “masks are important, but please be aware some people are exempt”? Non-existent.

Their purpose is to crush the people, crash the economy and bring in minute by minute surveillance. They will continue to double down, however pointless their actions and even if the arguments against them are incontrovertible. They can and will, do what they want. Response now is based on ‘cases’, which they will continue to fiddle, manufacture and openly lie about. Something that is going away is being treated as if bodies are piling up in the streets. They might as well base their strategy on testing for Blood Group ‘O’.

There’s lots more to come, here’s a taster:


154823 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to Sam Vimes, 11, #696 of 2191 🔗

I’d love all the supermarket staff to go on strike. The mandatory mask bullshit would be scrapped after 20 mins.

154839 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Hubes, 7, #697 of 2191 🔗

I am suspicious that the ‘masks for shop workers’ rule was introduced *specifically* to increase the numbers of supermarket workers falling ill, because it is an annoying truth which the government want to eradicate…

When supermarket workers get ill, they will say ‘See, we told you so – the virus IS dangerous’…

154886 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Carrie, 3, #698 of 2191 🔗

I think they introduced it as too many people said, how come we have to wear masks and they don’t?

154912 ▶▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Silke David, 3, #699 of 2191 🔗

In the same vein. It exposed the fallacy of mask effectiveness and the consequent inconsistency of the guidelines. They’re not imposing masks on shop-workers to protect them or us it is purely to try and make mask-wearing a more coherent policy and hide it’s ineffectiveness.

155017 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Silke David, 1, #700 of 2191 🔗

Same reason so many building sites shut down which was not in the plan. How come I’m off work if they aren’t.

155106 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Silke David, #701 of 2191 🔗

Likely that too..

156330 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, #702 of 2191 🔗

I won’t be surprised if that’s the real reason.

155006 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Hubes, 2, #703 of 2191 🔗

One chain convenience store worker used to use a visor sometimes, now they’ve made masks compulsory she’s claimed exemption.

154779 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #704 of 2191 🔗

This is interesting:

In this legislation:

The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (Birmingham, Sandwell and Solihull) Regulations 2020
It states

The Secretary of State makes the following Regulations in exercise of the powers conferred by sections 45C(1), (3)(c), (4)(d), 45F(2) and 45P of the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984

But this Act does not allow wholesale closing of areas, businesses or isolating people and must be done on a one-on-one basis and by due process with a Justice of the Peace signed notice and compensation is to be paid.

So what is going on?

Any lawyers out there?

154790 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #705 of 2191 🔗

Not a lawyer, but isn’t this what they have been doing all along with all of these SIs?

I am sure you are right, FWIW, and I think this is the thrust of the Dolan case, and Sumption agrees – he stated pretty clearly that he doesn’t think the 1984 Act confers on the government the powers it has been using.

154833 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #706 of 2191 🔗

Not a lawyer but that 1984 Act was to allow local authorities to detain persons infected with a notifiable disease against their will (goggle typhoid Mary) not to impose measures on entire populations.

154858 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to karenovirus, 6, #707 of 2191 🔗

But they need to prove you not just have the exact virus first (which they can’t) but to prove medically you are infectious and a danger to public health, then prove it to a JP who will sign a notice, serve the notice on the individual, take them to a secure place until they recover, pay all costs here, pay compensation for all losses to the individual.

Similar process for shutting down a business.

I have a FOI answer from a council stating that the S.I.s are written just so the councils do not have to follow this process nor pay compensation so ti all stinks to high heaven.

155058 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #708 of 2191 🔗

Thank you for spelling it out so clearly. This is really a crucial aspect for us to understand.

154877 ▶▶ bucky99, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #709 of 2191 🔗

Would be very interested to know the answer on that one!

154907 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #710 of 2191 🔗

This is the argument raised by Lord Sumption, the wrong use of the wrong law.

154999 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to p02099003, 1, #711 of 2191 🔗

Which they know and is why nobody has been prosecuted, though I imagine that many have accepted fines.

154788 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 12, #712 of 2191 🔗

What is the actual legal position surrounding all those locked up students? What would happen if they did try to leave their accommodation, go for a walk etc? Would they be arrested and taken into custody (surely more dangerous than going for a walk outdoors?). What happens if someone becomes suicidal? Are they allowed to travel home or seek support to save their own life, or is their own life here and now less important than someone else’s theoretical life possibly ending in the future?

Is the only way out to call an ambulance and fake a heart attack?

154813 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to A. Contrarian, 7, #713 of 2191 🔗

It’s a good question. I believe the security goons stationed outside the halls have no authority to prevent people leaving. Further, if they so much as lay a finger on anyone it could be construed as an assault. I really hope the students don’t put up with this incarceration and start protesting big time.

154848 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to A. Contrarian, 9, #715 of 2191 🔗

I think the strategy, on the part of government, is to spread complicity. It is quite easy for the state to manipulate university leaders into putting their names to policies that amount to negligence if not (technically) manslaughter (as suicide cannot be directly blamed on anyone else in a legal sense).

There is no way that university ‘covid safety’ measures can be justified in terms of protecting the students themselves. The measures exacerbate a known and significant risk re mental and emotional wellbeing, with a quantifiable mortality, for the sake of mitigating a risk that is unquantifiably small.

Justification could only be in terms of sacrificing the young for the sake of wider ‘society.’ But the maths on that are atrocious. If ‘covid safety’ contributes to just one death of, say, a twenty year old, how many eighty year olds will the university concerned need to prove its measures have saved, just to break even in terms of years of life lost? Let’s say sixty. As even eighty year olds have roughly a 90percent survival rate, that means prevention of 600 infections of eighty year olds or equivalent. The equivalent figures are worse, as saving a notional younger person from covid would give you a more years of life, but the survival rate balloons, so the number of infections you have to demonstrate your measures have prevented increases. What also has to be considered is that many of those 600 eighty year olds will probably be infected anyway by another route, so the sacrifice of our twenty year old is wasted anyway. That is another factor that needs to be included in the model.

Long story short, university leaders have been manipulated by the government into dipping their hands in blood.

154874 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Ovis, 9, #716 of 2191 🔗

As an Old Fart who is ‘vulnerable’ (and, I guess, much like others here), I make this declaration :

I don’t know how much more time I have on this planet; but in summary it’s ‘not a lot’.

As such I have absolutely no desire to impoverish my life or that of others by the stupidity/evil (take your pick) of imposing pointless restrictions that are, by definition, anti-life – in the sad bastard slim hope that it might prevent my demise from a virus.

Far better to go on living without incontinence pads – especially if you are a student or young person with way to go.

As a student – get together and just stick up one or two fingers and carry on regardless whilst singing ‘Alice’s Restaurant’ – a blast from a more attractive past. Like Arlo, you might start a movement.

154898 ▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to RickH, 1, #717 of 2191 🔗

Ah, but Rick, it’s not about you. Don’t be so selfish! You should ‘play your part.’ The game is to get our rulers off the hook. Too many are complicit in the disaster of lockdown for it to be admitted: Bojo and Starmer and all who sail in them, the institutional media, decision makers across the civil service and the shelving beeches of the state. They cannot all be wrong, especially when they obviously are. So the solution is to kill a few more people and spread the guilt so far that it can never be admitted, and no individual can ever be singled out and held accountable. ‘Everyone needs to play their part.’

155060 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Ovis, 3, #718 of 2191 🔗

No – you’re right. It’s not about individuals or ‘saving lives’ (especially since it does the exact opposite).

It is about saving face – whether the immediately visible ugliest of mugs, or that of global capital..

155324 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to RickH, 1, #719 of 2191 🔗

As another old fart … well said

155358 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to RickH, 1, #720 of 2191 🔗

Absolute agreement, Rick, from another old fart.

154888 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #721 of 2191 🔗

I think the threat is to their accommodation and ultimately their place at uni, they are very vulnerable and so easy to bully.

Locally students are bulk buying in case they also get put into special measures which might account for reports of panic buying.

154799 Ovis, replying to Ovis, #722 of 2191 🔗

Anyone else finding the Laurence Fox expression of interest page failing to load properly?

154815 ▶▶ Ross Hendry, replying to Ovis, #723 of 2191 🔗

It loaded for me O.K. a few minutes ago.

154826 Schrodinger, replying to Schrodinger, 2, #724 of 2191 🔗

In respect of the student situation Sage reported in their minutes of the 16th July

“Emerging data from Leicester, and some from the USA, suggest that an increase in incidence in younger adults has not been followed by a similar increase in either children or older adults, as might be expected. It is unclear why this might be the case”

Following the science again I see.


155215 ▶▶ annie, replying to Schrodinger, 1, #725 of 2191 🔗

Unclear? It’s bloody screaming obvious. Asymptomatic cases are not infectious.
And my biology education stopped short of O level.

154836 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 1, #726 of 2191 🔗

Postman just knocked on the door with a signed-for parcel. Of course he didn’t ask for my signature, but signed for it himself. Rather than handing the parcel to me he left it on the (potentially filthy) path for me to pick up. I didn’t think fast enough to tell him what a twat he was.

154841 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tenchy, 6, #727 of 2191 🔗

No. He wasn’t a ‘twat’. He’s a victim of the Fear.

I have nothing but praise for the posties and delivery drivers who have kept working through all this.

154852 ▶▶▶ jakehadlee, replying to RickH, 8, #728 of 2191 🔗

Yeah – I agree. I had a moment of believing people masking up etc were cowards, but I’ve come to realise that they are simply trusting the information they are getting and reacting accordingly. Most people don’t have the time, or the interest, to research what they are being told. Which is why the media is the real villain in all this, through its failure to give any balance to the evidence from the start.

155314 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to RickH, 1, #729 of 2191 🔗

Agreed, most of them anyway. I just took in a parcel for the next door neighbours – friendly delivery driver, no mask or gloves. My neighbours are fairly sane so won’t be worried about me handling it either. I can imagine some scaredy-cats would want to quarantine the parcel for 72 hours.

154854 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to Tenchy, #730 of 2191 🔗

I think that’s one improvement from this. Parcels are now left without having a sign for them. It was getting ridiculous the amount you had to sign for or stuff that wasn’t left even though it would fit through the letterbox.

154934 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Tenchy, #731 of 2191 🔗

That is just bad manners and very disrespectful (leaving the parcel on the path).

155670 ▶▶ Kathryn, replying to Tenchy, #732 of 2191 🔗

Sorry tried to upvote and clicked the down vote by accident. Apologies. Postman still a plank though!

154853 Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 10, #733 of 2191 🔗

I’ve been working in a large supermarket distribution centre since I was furloughed from my normal line of work back in March.

The job has been pretty rubbish, but the place overall has been an oasis of relative normality throughout. Minimal social distancing due to practicalities, and nobody has been particularly bothered anyway. Canteen normal. Everything fine. As far as I know, nobody has had COVID.

Over the last few days, signs have appeared asking staff to wear masks in certain situations. It’s not being enforced yet, but is there any place where they will leave us alone?!

154885 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 4, #734 of 2191 🔗

The noose is tightening everywhere. The government is dead serious.
We either resist now, or it’s game over.

154897 ▶▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to stewart, 9, #735 of 2191 🔗

Yes we do
Don’t wear a muzzle
Don’t accept the rules

154866 arfurmo, #736 of 2191 🔗
154870 Jay Berger, 1, #737 of 2191 🔗

An alternative to Sweden is Ticino, or German speaking Switzerland ex the cities.
Only the waiters are and need to be masked, and if you can skip public transport, you won’t ever have to mask up and few people do.
The vibe in Lugano felt like Chelsea in the good old pre Corona days, for example, incl. open air DJ lounge bars etc..
To get around the idiotic blanket British quarantine requirements (Germany distinguishes by regions at least, and those regions are currently super safe) you can fly to/from Milan (if you can stand flying) and rent a car there.
If you want to be super safe tracking-wise, turn off your phone and just pay cash, or with your offshore credit card…, but I doubt they are that far along, yet.
Alternatively, take a car, drive into Germany without stopping in France and travel on to Switzerland, doing the same as above and claiming to have stayed in Germany only.
It’s expensive, but boy is it worth it currently.
I almost started to cry when I saw all the people having fun in the streets.

154871 leggy, replying to leggy, #738 of 2191 🔗

Can anyone help me out with a marital discussion please? 🙂

I think we accept that there’s a problem with False Positive PCR tests. Perhaps around 1%. However, there also appears to be a much bigger issue with False Negative Rates.

It’s pretty hard for me to argue that the FPR is roughly equivalent to SAR-CoV-2 prevalence when that could also be masked by a huge amount of false negatives too

Any thoughts from the panel?

154889 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to leggy, 6, #739 of 2191 🔗

Well, if the false negative rates and false positive rates are both high, doesn’t it make the whole testing exercise quite pointless when you end up isolating the wrong people? How can the PCR test be of any use if this is the case?

I’m often required to test aeroplanes for faults. If the test tells me some of the broken ones are fine, and some of the fine ones are broken, what on Earth am I doing the test for?

154909 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, #740 of 2191 🔗

Agreed, pretty tough arguing with someone who has a masters in genetics and spent many years doing PCR tests every day though!

I shall try that angle this evening.

154955 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, #741 of 2191 🔗

Hope you wear a parachute

155057 ▶▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to stefarm, 1, #742 of 2191 🔗

A parachute would be essential equipment if continuing airworthiness was determined solely by tests with the accuracy rate of the PCR.

154892 ▶▶ bucky99, replying to leggy, 1, #743 of 2191 🔗

False positives relate to a % of ALL tests carried out, false negatives only relate to a % of the actual positives within that test set (currently a very low number!)

154927 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to leggy, 3, #744 of 2191 🔗

FNR has little effect at this level of prevalence. Here’s an example. Suppose prevalence is 1 in 1000, FPR rate is 1%. We’ll test 100,000 people, of whom 100 are true positive and 99,900 true negative.

First assume FNR is 1% as well.
100 true positive: 99 test positive, 1 test negative
99,900 true negative: 98,901 test negative, 999 test positive.
Evidential value of a positive test: 99/(99+999) = 9%
Evidential value of a negative test: 98,901/(98,901+1) = 100% near enough

Now assume FNR is 30%
100 true positive: 70 test positive, 30 test negative
99,900 true negative: 98,901 test negative, 999 test positive.
Evidential value of a positive test: 70/(70+999) = 7%
Evidential value of a negative test: 98,901/(98,901+30) = 100% near enough

Finally assume FNR is an absurdly high 99%
100 true positive: 1 test positive, 99 test negative
99,900 true negative: 98,901 test negative, 999 test positive.
Evidential value of a positive test: 1/(1+999) = 0.1%
Evidential value of a negative test: 98,901/(98,901+99) = 100% near enough

So at very low prevalence such as we have at the moment, the FNR simply decreases the evidential value of a positive result, that is, the (already small) probability that a positive test result comes from a true positive sample. The evidential value of a negative test remains very close to 100%. Indeed, suppose we simply declared all results negative. Then 99.9% of all negative test results would still be correct!

Executive summary: when very few positive results are true positive, then false negative rates have little effect.

154957 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Richard Pinch, #745 of 2191 🔗

Thanks a lot, hadn’t really considered it in those terms. My wife’s assumption is that the false negative rate applies to the entire sample, but of course that is completely at odds with the viral prevalence. You can’t have a false negative if someone is already negative.

154972 ▶▶ matt, replying to leggy, 3, #746 of 2191 🔗

Sorry to say that the false negative rate is probably higher than the false positive rate. If you aim to lower the false negative rate, you will necessarily increase the false positive rate.

However, two things are important here:
Firstly, the percentage of false negatives as a proportion of tests performed clearly can’t be higher than the actual prevalence in the community, because in order for the negative to be false, there has to be an actual infection (a “false” negative in a person who doesn’t have the virus is impossible). This means that false negatives become more of a “problem” as the number of actual infections increases, not simply as a function of increasing the number of tests. To put it another way, the absolute number of false positives will always increase in proportion to the number of tests performed; the absolute number of false negatives can never be higher than the number of people with a real infection who are tested.

Secondly, the false negative problem actually challenges the whole test and trace narrative and doesn’t logically increase the danger of the virus or support . If a person can test negative, despite being infected and then be allowed to go about their lives then clearly test and trace can never be truly effective in controlling the virus. It’s even more of a nonsense if someone can be false negative and “free” but another person can be false positive and quarantined. it just makes it idiotic to pretend that the system can hope to control the spread.

155002 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to matt, 1, #747 of 2191 🔗

the false negative problem actually challenges the whole test and trace narrative and doesn’t logically increase the danger of the virus or support .

That means that the test is totally unreliable

155051 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Victoria, #748 of 2191 🔗


155009 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to matt, 1, #749 of 2191 🔗

I suppose it’s also not just the person receiving the false positive who loses their freedom, but also anyone nearby who happens to have been flagged up by the new track and trace system…

155098 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to leggy, #750 of 2191 🔗

Yes, and likely to be no means of challenging such – it will be a case of ‘computer says no’…. Months ago I saw an interview with a Chinese person who could not travel due to being flagged in such a way, despite the fact that he had not apparently been anywhere or met anyone for weeks.. He said you just have to wait till you get a ‘green light’ again…

155091 ▶▶ Suitejb, replying to leggy, #751 of 2191 🔗

I had an antibody rest recently which came back negative despite my having something very like COVID in February. The nurse doing the test warned me about false negatives at the time.

155147 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to leggy, #752 of 2191 🔗

The false negative rate (sensitivity estimated in range 0.71 – 0.98) is higher than the false positive rate (specificity estimated in range 0.96 – 0.995), but when prevalence is low the actual number of false positives can massively outnumber the total number of false negatives.

My values above aren’t perfect, we don’t really know the operational (compared to lab/theoretical) numbers due to the massive diversity of assays used, groups doing the testing, cycle thresholds used, whether or not we test positives twice etc.

I’m sure one thing you and your partner will be able to agree on would be – they should definitely be testing all positives twice before declaring them positive – that way we make this almost a non-issue. Of course we’re not doing that, because that would be sensible and would reduce panic and confusion.

155281 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Tee Ell, #753 of 2191 🔗

The false negative rate is important for the purposes for which mass testing is intended, namely suppressing infection by keeping infectious people isolated. The higher the FNR the less effective mass testing is.

As far as I can tell, FNR comes from three distinct sources.

Firstly, the lab test itself. This has high specificity (low FPR) and high sensitivity. (low FNR) when tested on pure cultures — which is of course exactly the way you assess these tests, but not exactly what you give them in practice.

Secondly, there are operational problems, such as mishandling, mislabelling, cross-contamination, improper storage, delays in testing and poor swabbing techniques.

Thirdly there are issues about whether the virus is present in the part of the body that the sample is taken from.

As far as I can tell from the literature, the first cause, intrinsic to the test, has very low error rates both FNR and FPR. The second, according to the GOS report , introduces about a 2% error for FPR. The third, according GOS and a BMJ paper introduces an FNR depending on time of between 100% (yes, complete failure to detect) on day 1 down to 20% on day 8, compounded with FNT dependent on place of swab at 7% for broncho-alveolar lavage, 28% for sputum, 37% for nasal swabs, and 68% for throat swabs.

Given that lavage is hardly possible for untrained people at home, or even in a mass testing environment, it’s hard to see how overall FNR could be better than 50%/. A test which potentially releases half of infectious people back into society can hardly be said to worth doing.

155440 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to leggy, 2, #754 of 2191 🔗

In my very unhumble opinion, we should ONLY be testing those who present with symptoms. Everything else is just smoke on the wind.

154876 Silke David, replying to Silke David, 3, #755 of 2191 🔗

I just joined the club of receiving T&T msg on my “useless” Doro calls and text only phone.

Saw a headline yday that Lushenkov of Belarus claims he was offered $1bill. by IMF to impose severe lockdown.
It kind of makes sense….

154903 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Silke David, #756 of 2191 🔗

I have seen this mentioned before but only by conspiracy theorists and that it was the WHO offering the money – have you seen a more main stream report?

154879 tonys, replying to tonys, 3, #758 of 2191 🔗

Not sure Prof Woolhouse’s third wave prediction is that extraordinary, in fact I am inclined to agree with him inflammatory ‘wave’ description notwithstanding. We know the virus is endemic, or at least we think we do so it is likely to pop back up every winter like all the other respiratory disease viruses, to give us a wave before fading away again in spring.

154916 ▶▶ 2 pence, replying to tonys, 2, #759 of 2191 🔗
155020 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to 2 pence, #760 of 2191 🔗

That’s been obvious from the stuff he gets into the MSM

155093 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to 2 pence, 1, #761 of 2191 🔗

Such links to Gates need to be publicised more..

155019 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to tonys, 1, #762 of 2191 🔗

Wave or ripple or casedemic?

154881 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 7, #763 of 2191 🔗

Adam Boulton on Sky live, interviewing Nicola Dandridge. He is taking her apart ‘what is the point of Office for Students if you are not able to do anything – why didn’t you advise them not go back – why is it not your job – shouldn’t you be pushing for refunds for less than optimal tuition – isn’t this just about maintaining the university economy’ etc. etc. Nicola, I am disappointed in you. You accepted the role to head up Office of Students, having been CEO of Universities UK. Who are you working for, the students or the universities still?

154895 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #764 of 2191 🔗

You seem to be saying Sky are doing proper journalism. If so, it’s a welcome development.

154900 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Julian, 1, #765 of 2191 🔗

If only. The problem are the underlying false premises which they keep peddling:

a. this virus is extraordinarily dangerous
b. the government has the right to steal our personal responsibility from us and manage the health and wellbeing of every individual in the country.

154906 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Julian, 2, #766 of 2191 🔗

I am a fan of Boulton, although sometimes he is a bit shouty and his own left-wing stance comes to the fore when it would be better to back off. He is very smart, though. He has been pretty brutal with some of the climate change worshippers in the past. He was only asking the obvious questions of Nicola. Even for a left-leaning ‘establishment’ figure, with the qualifications and experience she has, she ought to be ashamed of herself with that interview.

154956 ▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #767 of 2191 🔗

After your postings last week, I looked up the website of the Office for Students so that I could pass on the information to friends whose children were about to go up. After looking over the website, I concluded – unfortunately – that I would be wasting my and their time. So no surprise to me.

155047 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #768 of 2191 🔗

I emailed her the other day and have yet to receive an acknowledgement let alone an actual reply

155096 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to nocheesegromit, 1, #769 of 2191 🔗

I am so sorry for you and all the other students – my son in second year, so not in halls, but extremely expensive private accommodation. Nicola Dandridge and the Office for Students is clearly not working for the good of students, which begs the question, what exactly do they do for their enormous salaries and new office costs in Bristol?

155220 ▶▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #770 of 2191 🔗

Are universities the new railways? Every problem requires another quango or regulator.

155407 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to kf99, 1, #771 of 2191 🔗

Not just universities. Everywhere has a quango because, as everybody has now found out, politicians are useless.

155519 ▶▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #772 of 2191 🔗

Sweet FA is the answer! It’s the same at universities everywhere, Vice Chancellors get upwards of £100k to spout bullshit about staying safe/BLM/’climate emergency’, ignoring the actual issues we face like poor job prospects and the cost of accommodation.

154884 smileymiley, replying to smileymiley, 2, #773 of 2191 🔗

This is a good article from the other side of the pond. Showing that the data is no more harmful than flu… Of course LS members know this already!


155398 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to smileymiley, #774 of 2191 🔗

Very interesting. I note the “death of responsible journalism” part. The entire Establishment has let us down, and let us down badly. The Executive has turned on full dictator mode, neither House of Parliament seems prepared to hold that Executive to account, preferring to hide at home. The Press keep pumping out the fear porn, and where the hell is the Queen? You couldn’t move without bumping into her father during the 1939-45 War. And all credit to him and his wife for that.

Instead of running around like headless chickens, the Government should have provided leadership from the outset. Sometimes firm leadership is needed and the first target really ought to have been the Press, who needed to wind their collective neck in. But no.

Too late now of course, barring a change of leadership to somebody untainted by the current hysteria.

154890 Basics, replying to Basics, 8, #775 of 2191 🔗

Masks are alien.

In the savage psy-op radio drama The War of The Worlds Orson well has the final concluding remarks that the aliens came terrorised the world but failed because the could not survive on earth where they were attacked by viruses and bacteria endemic to earth. The play had it that humans had earned the right to live on earth along side the viruses and bateria all around us. Our immune systems a kind of trophy of that right.

155364 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, 1, #776 of 2191 🔗

Masks are totally alien. Our immune system has evolved with us alongside possibly millions of different viruses. Very few are harmful, except perhaps to the very ill, very old, or very young. Bacteria are a far greater threat (qv Bubonic/Pneumonic Plague) to human health.

154891 HelenaHancart, replying to HelenaHancart, 10, #777 of 2191 🔗

Something occurred to me. Wasn’t the gimp mask diktat brought in because (un)social distancing had been reduced to 1metre+, and where it couldn’t be maintained? But now we’re back to 2metres AND full-on mask wearing to the point of absurdity. Now we’re back to zealous door/nap Nazis, food shortages (controlled?) and long queues soon in freezing rain and “Covid (prison) Marshalls “assisting” us in making sure we OBEY the rules! All for our “safety” you understand. Invert the word “safety”- “danger” is the word that comes to mind now! Anyone else bailing out and going under the radar, not going to any of these places unless absolutely necessary, and certainly not for fun!

154948 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to HelenaHancart, 1, #778 of 2191 🔗

Yes exactly my thought. What happened to 1m+?

155010 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Victoria, 1, #779 of 2191 🔗

They didn’t change the stickers!

154988 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to HelenaHancart, 2, #780 of 2191 🔗

The masses only have short term memories so the establishment take advantage of it to the full.

155008 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to HelenaHancart, 2, #781 of 2191 🔗

Absolutely HH.
I’d noticed the 2m nonsense didn’t seem to have gone, despite the face nappies, it’s all just got worse.

155089 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to HelenaHancart, 2, #782 of 2191 🔗

Re the Covid nazis, the interview on Talk Radio with a restaurant owner was interesting – they got visited by them and they hung about to make sure people finished their desserts and left by 9.59 pm – hardly relaxing..

155176 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to HelenaHancart, 1, #783 of 2191 🔗

As far as possible, I bailed some time ago.

155423 ▶▶ Sue, replying to HelenaHancart, 1, #784 of 2191 🔗

yup i don’t participate in any activities where mask required – dash to supermarket occaisonally and small friendly coffee place around the corner from me, or drive through coffee is sadly about it!! But i go walking in the countryside and the bastards can’t take that from me (yet!)

154966 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #786 of 2191 🔗

I thought the Speaker was there to look after the interests of MPs, not the Executive.

155088 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #787 of 2191 🔗

Yes, just seen that… so what will the rebels do now? I somehow doubt that they will vote against the extension of the act.

155167 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Carrie, 2, #788 of 2191 🔗

But that’s exactly what they’ll have to do. And if they vote against the Government AGAIN in the inevitable No Confidence Vote, they can force a General Election.

155172 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #789 of 2191 🔗

Assuming they win the vote against extending the CV Act that is.

155180 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Carrie, 2, #790 of 2191 🔗

I reckon some Tory MPs would, I don’t think Labour will do as they’d be too afraid of the assault they’d get from the Tory supporting papers accusing them of restricting government and playing with peoples lives etc (despite the opposite being true)

154908 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 3, #791 of 2191 🔗

Coronavirus: Parliament U-turns on exempting own bars from 10pm curfew

Just in from Sky News.

154961 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Margaret, 2, #792 of 2191 🔗

Ah so it was a deliberate tactic of distraction by being so fucking outraging. All part of the destabilising attack on Great Britain by the government.

154971 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 2, #793 of 2191 🔗

Taking the p*ss.

154970 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Margaret, 1, #794 of 2191 🔗

Oh but those customers work late hours!

155086 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Margaret, 1, #795 of 2191 🔗

I think they are only stopping the sale of alcohol there, not closing the bars?

154911 JBW, replying to JBW, 9, #796 of 2191 🔗

Can anyone help me with my logic please?

ONS states that 8% of the population has anti-bodies (heard last week, repeated by Bernard Jenkin today in Conservative Home). In the absence of any recognition of the now widely highlighted apparent T-cell immunity, that means that 92% of the population have not encountered this disease at all. This ‘highly infectious’ disease has apparently ravaged the country for over six months now, yet only 8% of people have been touched by it? The government cannot have it both ways – either it IS highly infectious – in which case a far higher proportion of the population MUST have been touched by it – or it is NOT highly infectious at all, so why are we being forced into all these contact restrictions?

Quite obviously T-cell immunity (or something similar) is the ONLY explanation for this. However if the government (or more specifically Whitty, who casually dismisses this, saying something like ‘because people always get a (corona) cold so (corona) T-cell immunity cannot exist’) continues to ignore this conclusion, then presumably they will continue down this path until everyone who has NOT got T-cell immunity is either dead or has anti-bodies (D/A-B). If we optimistically say T-cell immunity is held by 80% of the population, this leaves the government needing a tally of 12 million (20% of 60m Eng/Wales) in that D/A-B category. ONS positive tests to date are 434,000, in six or so months. So at the same rate of detection, it will be nearly 14 years before that target is reached. You might say that testing numbers are increasing, but there will come a time when however many tests you do, you cannot find anyone in that category.

Meantime, what happens to the 48m (untestable I believe) T-cell people when doubtless some health passport app comes into play, without which you’re not allowed to have a life? Do they remain unable to go to the pub, go on holiday etc because they cannot prove they are immune?

p.s.I am told by someone working (in a major hospital) on the Oxford vaccine that they are more than well aware of the undisputed existence of T-cell immunity….

154923 ▶▶ leggy, replying to JBW, 5, #797 of 2191 🔗

There are more that 200 different strains of virus causing the common cold. I think about 60% rhinovirus and 40% coronavirus from memory? It’s improbably that we could carry immunity to all of them. Hence why we all catch colds from time to time.

154969 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to leggy, 4, #798 of 2191 🔗

We only catch a cold if our immune system is “down” for any reason.

155452 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to leggy, #799 of 2191 🔗

And, we catch a lot more colds as kids and less as we get older… why? Because we build up immunity to similar strains of course.

154945 ▶▶ stewart, replying to JBW, 5, #800 of 2191 🔗

I honestly think you are asking the wrong questions.

Are we not way past proving the lack of reason or substance behind the government’s measures?

The question now is, given that the government is committed to suppressing a not very dangerous virus by the most draconian of measures, what are we prepared to try to do about it?

The information war is lost. Exposing the truth about the actual danger of the virus, the false positives, the irrelevance of “cases” has made no difference to the government’s position. If anything it has been emboldened by the fact that the information is clearly out there and most people couldn’t give a shit. As far as they are concerned, if the government says it’s dangerous and we have to destroy the economy, torture old people and students with isolation and suppress all manner of freedoms that’s good enough for them.

Time to try something else.

154968 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to stewart, 3, #801 of 2191 🔗

I agree. Ultimately all discussion about the virus acts as a smokescreen for what’s really going on.

155001 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #802 of 2191 🔗

Stewart/Cheez, agree with you both. The majority (sadly not us) base their thinking on what they’ve half heard, plus “We’re all going to die”. They just do not respond to facts, and if the government went on TV tonight saying “One million have now died in the UK from Corona, err we think so anyway”, they would all put an extra mask on.

155022 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to stewart, 7, #803 of 2191 🔗

This is what a dictatorship can do.

Reason has no power any longer, and absurdities are enforced without resistance.

This is the triumph of totalitarianism.

155085 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to stewart, 1, #804 of 2191 🔗

I think that is why they want to stop people socialising and communicating the sceptic POV..

154951 ▶▶ Basics, replying to JBW, 3, #805 of 2191 🔗

Interesting point about the oxford T-cell awareness. Is there evidence at large to effectively exclude T-cells from national discussion. It is interesting they vaccine makers know to not mention T-cells.

Your post has me wondering how the vaccine and T-cells mingle, to coin a phrase. Might an artificial vaccine ruin T-cell response for future viruses?

155070 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to JBW, 1, #806 of 2191 🔗

ONS states that 8% of the population has anti-bodies

They state that 8% have a very specific type of antibody, based on blood serum testing only. If you test other things (nasal, tear ducts etc.) then you find a higher rate, and if you look at other antibodies (Ig-M, Ig-G – rather than just Ig-A) then you find an even higher rate still.

See research done by Hendrick Streeck for more on this.

155239 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to JBW, #807 of 2191 🔗

They have only tested a limited amount of people for antibodies, and others maybe too late. Not everyone exposed makes antibodies.
So, like they always claim, the +”cases” that they do not know about because people did not get tested, there are plenty of people with antibodies who have not been tested.
And they think antibodies disappear after 3 months.
considering that nearly 2 Mill tests have been carried out, and less 450.000 are “+”, the other negative tests might have immunity already?
As they had a reason to get tested, they must have been exposed?
At least this would make sense in their minds, never mind the people who had several tests and get registered as a new test or all the staff who need weekly tests and negative results. so they can work. So do not think we have tested 2 million people out of a population of 60mill. Shame, really, with 98% of tests showing negative, and the other 2% 1.8% are FP.

154914 petgor, 10, #808 of 2191 🔗

I have made yet another freedom of Information request to Mr. Hancocks department. It will be met by weasel words and obfuscation, but I will still keep trying in case something embarrassing is let slip.

1.What policy will be instigated to compensate those whose suffering has been exacerbated by lack of treatment during this period?
2.What policy will be instigated to compensate those whose family members died during this Covid period, due to provable neglect by the NHS?
3. What steps are being taken or plans prepared, to deal with patients or other members of the public, who have not been treated for identifiable or identified conditions, whether or not terminal, since Covid was first identified in the UK.

154918 James Bertram, replying to James Bertram, 1, #809 of 2191 🔗

Trafalgar Square protest to be on Radio 2 Jeremy Vine at 12 noon.
Hope I heard this correctly.

154920 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to James Bertram, 4, #810 of 2191 🔗

But what fiction will they be reporting?

154942 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #811 of 2191 🔗

A friend said that on the news this weekend they interviewed covid deniers at the protests; he thought we were deniers as we are challenging the lockdown.
[obviously they interviewed lots of people and then chose the interviews that suited their news story]

154977 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Victoria, 4, #812 of 2191 🔗

It’s a clingy nasty little phrase civid deniers. Deliberately used to connect to Holocaust Denying.

It might be an idea to check with anyone so crass as to reel of the term covid denier what they actually mean buy it. It is used unthinkingly by unthoughtful people. If you choose then to follow up with a startling fact or three about what the situation actually is, so much the better.

Covid deniers is offensive to a wider group than just lockdown sceptics.

155021 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Victoria, 3, #813 of 2191 🔗

Perhaps we should just own it. It is so hard to make the distinction between denying that COVID exists and denying that COVID is especially dangerous, especially when they are determined to misrepresent you.

Why not just own it. In the end COVID is literally just an arbitrary definition of a series of symptoms and to be honest not a very precise one.

155217 ▶▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to stewart, 1, #814 of 2191 🔗

I often stress when talking to people about my scepticism I believe the virus exists, I was ill, too,
But I oppose the restrictions and believe they are not necessary anymore.

154980 ▶▶ James Bertram, replying to James Bertram, 1, #815 of 2191 🔗

Apologies – I thought this was mentioned at 11.30am. However, doesn’t seem to be on regarding Trafalgar Square?

154919 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 18, #816 of 2191 🔗

Neighbours are being encouraged by the Government to report Covid sufferers who are not self-isolating to the police, on the day it becomes an offence punishable with a fine of up to £10,000 .


Surely there’s no obvious reason why your neighbours should know that you’re self-isolating?

Unless it’s because people are stupid enough to tell every acquaintance the minutiae of their lives, in which case I cannot sympathise.

154925 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Cheezilla, 10, #817 of 2191 🔗

One more thing out of the Soviet style Communist playbook. Breed fear and suspicion of your neighbours. It reduces significantly the chances of people binding together to resist government actions.

154946 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to stewart, 7, #818 of 2191 🔗

.. or the Third Reich/Franco/Mussolini/Salazar etc. playbook.

Keep it balanced.

155005 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to RickH, 6, #819 of 2191 🔗

Indeed. Although, in a broader sense, I see all this as the communist, collectivist ideology having another go. The ideology behind all this corona madness is that the individual does not count, what matters is collective action for the benefit of society at large.

Fascism was tyrannical, but with a different angle. It was more about national and racial superiority.

But I suppose both violently demanded obedience. They certainly had that in common.

155054 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to stewart, 7, #820 of 2191 🔗

They come to the same thing in terms of the totalitarian intent.

155325 ▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to stewart, #821 of 2191 🔗

Totalitarian does it for me:

“v. Of, relating to, being, or imposing a form of government in which the political authority exercises absolute and centralized control over all aspects of life, the individual is subordinated to the state, and opposing political and cultural expression is suppressed.

n. A practitioner or supporter of such a government.

adj. A system of government where the people have virtually no authority and the state wields absolute control of every aspect of the country, socially, financially and politically.”

154929 ▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #822 of 2191 🔗

Maybe they’ll spray paint a yellow star of David onto peoples doors so they know who the unpeopled people are?

155028 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #823 of 2191 🔗

Perhaps they could give the snitches a cut of the £10,000,they could call it ‘catch a cheat for cash’.I can see it happening,creating a network of paid informers.
Yes,I think a lot of people are stupid enough to tell everyone every detail of their lives,Facebook I think it’s called.

155210 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Paul, 2, #824 of 2191 🔗

I am pretty sure I saw that somewhere, in the States?
The local gov actually advertised a reward for snitching on neighbours!!

155078 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #825 of 2191 🔗

I would be *not* telling my neighbours that I was supposed to be self-isolating… But if you have to ask people to get your shopping, that might be noticed..

155213 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Carrie, 1, #826 of 2191 🔗

In the regulations it says you can go out shopping if you have no other means to get food.

155317 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Silke David, 1, #827 of 2191 🔗

Doesn’t that make a mockery of the rules? If you go to a supermarket you are likely going to meet a lot of people. And won’t your app flag you up as having broken your quarantine?

154921 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 29, #828 of 2191 🔗

Last Thursday when I went to Asda, I was challenged by security about not wearing a face mask. He repeatedly asserted I had to, then switched to I had to have proof of exemption. Eventually, he rang someone and informed them of the situation. After the call he muttered “apologised” at me and barked “keep social distance”. This morning was rather different. On entry the security person told me I had to wear a face mask. I said: “I’m exempt.” He asked me to show my card and lanyard. I told him I did not need one. He said I did, I repeated that I did not, He said: “If you’ll just listen. You need one. Other customers take umbrage. It’s for your personal protection.” I replied: “I’m not scared.”

So Asda had changed their briefing of staff. They are now made aware that people are exempt. But they are insidiously propagating fear, not of the virus, but of other customers. If Asda are genuinely concerned about the possibility of some customers taking umbrage (note: anger, not fear) at maskless people, why do they not include in the tannoy announcements about wearing face masks the fact that some people are exempt?

154928 ▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Steve Hayes, 9, #829 of 2191 🔗

Be interesting to see if this is nationwide or just local. I’ve made a point of visiting my local Morrison’s every week without a face nappy to gauge the general populations mood and also how the rules were being enforced.

I’ll be going in a few days time but I expect once one Supermarket Chain goes full Covid the others won’t be too far behind.

154954 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to Steve Hayes, 5, #830 of 2191 🔗

Asda are despicable.

154960 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Steve Hayes, 9, #831 of 2191 🔗

“For your personal protection.” LOL, get outta here ASDA!

155203 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 1, #832 of 2191 🔗

At my local waitrose was a young girl offering to clean people’s trolleys (after they have touched them already);
I replied you do not have to do it on my behalf, and she smiled relieved.

155319 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, #833 of 2191 🔗

So the masked zombies won’t chase you.

154989 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Steve Hayes, 5, #834 of 2191 🔗

Nothing seems more persuasive to me than being forced to do something for my own good. I’m so stupid, that I need someone else to force me to do what’s best for me.

155233 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to stewart, 1, #835 of 2191 🔗

And it’s unbelievable that not a single supermarket owner (who are pretty switched on people, much more than the average politician) shares this very reasonable scepticism.

155074 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #836 of 2191 🔗

Are they more worried about litigation if you get attacked/hassled by other members of the public? Do they have CCTV?

155242 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to Steve Hayes, 5, #837 of 2191 🔗

I’m not scared either. And I am a short, middle-aged woman, who usually shops alone, with no fighting skills. It would be perfectly evident to anyone that I absolutely can’t handle myself. Truly, the kind of thing you describe is monstrous in intention – but it is also ridiculous in description. We all have to keep that in mind as far as possible. When this horror show is over, some of us will have nothing to be ashamed of in retrospect.

155387 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #838 of 2191 🔗

The Law or Fiction site makes it clear that it’s a responsibility of the shop to prevent other customers from harassing those who are exempt.

154924 NonCompliant, replying to NonCompliant, 12, #839 of 2191 🔗

Feels like we’re in the last chance Saloon this week. Sent this email to my MP who has so far not responded to my three previous attempts at correspondance. If anyone wishes to use it as a template, be my guest, the more of these kinds of emails go out the better!

This is my 4th attempt to contact you since early August. My previous attempts, first by post with the rest via email, have not had a single response which is very dissappointing given you are my MP.

Since you have been unwilling or unable to respond to emails citing actual data in order for you to justify your apparent silence on Government actions under the Coronavirus Act of 2020, I’ve decided not waste my time in this email pointing you in the direction of factual data.

All I want to know is your voting intention regards the following:

  • Invocation of the sunset clause on the Coronavirus Act 2020
  • The Brady Ammendment to the Coronavirus Act 2020 (Your name was not on the list of 40 MP’s who initially signed up)

Could you please confirm your voting intentions for both of the above mentioned votes please? If your intention is to vote against either or both I would be most interested to hear why you feel justified in casting your vote in such a way and also back this up with actual data and statistics rather than hiding behind the words of the Chief Medical Officer etc.

It seems we are no longer living in a Democracy where the population are ruled by consent, but rather living in a nation ruled by decree, essentially a Medical Dictatorship underpinned by rather questionable facts and statistics.

Many Thanks,

154931 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to NonCompliant, 1, #840 of 2191 🔗

Great letter

154936 6097 Smith W, replying to 6097 Smith W, 3, #841 of 2191 🔗

Talk Radio is doing very this morning

154938 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to 6097 Smith W, 1, #842 of 2191 🔗

very well edit function please

154962 ▶▶▶ PhilipF, replying to 6097 Smith W, 2, #843 of 2191 🔗

Hitchens excellent as ever.

[you can edit if you login fully]

154997 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to 6097 Smith W, #844 of 2191 🔗

There is an edit function. Once you have published – look for the little icon (manage post) that will appear on the extreme right of your post

155238 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to 6097 Smith W, #845 of 2191 🔗

there is an edit function. click on the little cog wheel to the bottom right of your post. This is manage post option. an edit option then appears below it. Only works until a reply to your post is made

154940 stefarm, 2, #846 of 2191 🔗


Why I Support Anti – Lockdown Protests by Dr Colin M Barron

154963 Mrs issedoff, replying to Mrs issedoff, 7, #847 of 2191 🔗

Do we believe that 10 million people have downloaded the trace app?. I can’t decide if it is a downright lie or if there are that many brain dead idiots in this country. What with this and that screaming banshee, Lorraine Kelly, apparently having a rant about the protest on Saturday, I’m just coming up to boiling point. I try and rationalize how people can be so invested in the lies and hysteria, try as I might nothing pops into this little brain of mine!. I have never considered myself to be smart, but I know now that a lot of people are lower down the intelligence chart than I am, not that this is much of a consolation.

155144 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Mrs issedoff, 1, #848 of 2191 🔗

I struggle to believe that 10million would have already, purely based on population % and how quick the uptake would’ve been. I wouldnt be surprised if that number eventually, and significantly more. I know plenty of people who have, and it’s mainly cos they still believe that to do so is to help, and they want to be seen to, and to feel like they will, be helping.

There appears to be no amount of lies they can be told that will stop them believing the next one.

155404 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Mrs issedoff, #849 of 2191 🔗

If you go to google playstore web site it says 1,000,000+ installs.
I assume that installs are between 1 – 2 million but who knows?

Link here:

154973 Banjones, replying to Banjones, 5, #850 of 2191 🔗

It’s the all-important vote on WEDNESDAY. Write to your MP. (It won’t do any good, but it might annoy them.)
Good luck to Mr Fox. I hope he will consider getting Nigel F. on side.

154987 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Banjones, 3, #851 of 2191 🔗

Have done, he’s a tory with a majority of 23,000 plus.
I would be astonished and amazed if I received anything other than the prescribed ” We have found ourselves in a situation never ever before been confronted by the human race,platitude,platitude,etc, and I will do as I have done for the last 15 years and tow the party line”

154995 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #852 of 2191 🔗

On the other hand if Reclaim get a candidate to stand against him at the next election, he might not get the hefty majority or no majority

155090 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Victoria, #853 of 2191 🔗

Here’s hoping

155116 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Victoria, #854 of 2191 🔗

There’s next May. We don’t need a General Election

155156 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to mhcp, #855 of 2191 🔗

Doubtful any elections will be held by then…
Crazy; the USA can hold a general election but we can’t have any elections at all…

155068 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Banjones, #856 of 2191 🔗

The DM is saying the Speaker is not going to allow a vote on the Brady amendment…

154978 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 4, #857 of 2191 🔗

Just in from The Guardian (citing The Times):

Today’s Times splash (paywall) claims that the government is preparing “a total social lockdown across much of northern Britain and potentially London to combat a spiralling second wave of coronavirus”. In their report Tom Newton Dunn and Steven Swinford say:

Under the new emergency plan, all pubs, restaurants and bars would be ordered to shut for two weeks initially. Households would also be banned indefinitely from meeting each other in any indoor location where they were not already under the order. Schools would stay open as well as shops, factories and offices at which staff could not work from home.

The social lockdown was among options presented to the cabinet’s Covid-19 strategy committee before last week’s new restrictions, which included a 10pm curfew on all hospitality venues. The Times has learnt that the group of six ministers, led by Boris Johnson, held them back, fearing a backlash from Tory MPs and sections of the public.

155013 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Tenchy, 1, #858 of 2191 🔗

Isn’t this already the case apart from London? We need the rebel MPs to go against this.

155026 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Tenchy, 2, #859 of 2191 🔗

So is this the two week circuit breaker idea? If so, I’m struggling to understand why household meetings would be “banned indefinitely” . Sounds like it could go on for ever? No one will put up that surely?

155049 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to godowneasy, 2, #860 of 2191 🔗

To break down the family unit. This is one possibility. It was listed in communist ways of breaking down western society. It fits the concept, but whether it is the case or not too early to say. Discount nothing during the government of occupation is at the helm.

155185 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Basics, #861 of 2191 🔗

Make it look like you’re doing something without totally destroying the economy

Circuit breaker- what bollocks

154982 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 3, #862 of 2191 🔗

I’m going to update this every few days to watch the “exponential” doubling of cases every week. https://www.covid19assembly.org/post/actual-cases-vs-example-scenario

Funny… it hasn’t doubled last week…

154993 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Lockdown Truth, 4, #863 of 2191 🔗

Great graph. Could you make the grey darker? Could you make a note somewhere that cases = positive tests.

Would be great if Toby and Simon can also put on their twitter feed every week

155018 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Victoria, #864 of 2191 🔗


155034 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Victoria, 1, #865 of 2191 🔗

Brilliant graph and good comments from Victoria too. Tonaly the red and grey have the same value, good idea to make darker.

A really lovely fight back to plot that graph. Good stuff.

155126 ▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Basics, #866 of 2191 🔗

Thanks. I’ve experimented with different colours and shades. I need to show how the actual data exceeds or misses the “predicted” numbers so I’m using a transparent block which makes it a bit difficult. I have made it darker now. You can expand the image which makes it easier to see.

155030 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #867 of 2191 🔗

Brillliant. I took last Monday (4,368 “cases”) as my start point, the day Witless and Vaillant told us of the “doubling”, so am expecting 8,736 “cases” today. Not holding my breath.

154983 nickbowes, replying to nickbowes, 2, #868 of 2191 🔗

You just have to love Ian Brown :-
I dont have nor have ever had a smartphone These tweets are from my pals phone #Idontwannabeacyborg

155103 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to nickbowes, 3, #869 of 2191 🔗

“Please can all the learned academics and clever clogs recommend a history book telling of the time a government took away all your rights then gave them back!”

A very good question from the monkey man.

155246 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Cicatriz, 2, #870 of 2191 🔗

Somebody replies
Can some clever clogs tell me a time in history when a flu last killed large amounts of people.

to which someone else replies
Every calendar year..

155441 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Barney McGrew, #871 of 2191 🔗

Yep, saw that. Very funny/

155016 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Moomin, 4, #873 of 2191 🔗

Don’t think he’s calling for one, merely suggesting that is a better time to have a lockdown compared to right now. Hopefully, people will realise by then that’s there been no second wave.

155029 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #874 of 2191 🔗

Yeah, that’s kind of what I thought. He’s using his words carefully

155040 ▶▶▶▶ Sally, replying to Moomin, 4, #875 of 2191 🔗

Why say it at all? I think it’s very strange and very unwelcome.

155061 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #876 of 2191 🔗

Or does he mean that people should have a longer break *with* their family rather than not being allowed to meet them?

155024 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Moomin, 3, #877 of 2191 🔗

Yes – I’m struggling with this one.

Of course – he’s right, that any suppression measure would be more justified at that time – if justified at all.

… and perhaps Nick Rose is right – it’s a way of pushing back without being too obvious – a tactical measure.

Certainly, Heneghan and the CEBM came out early in saying that the original lockdown should be lifted – and quickly.

155056 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Moomin, 2, #878 of 2191 🔗

This has been doing the rounds for a few days. But if lockdowns don’t work which he seems to have said for some time, why advocate one at any time? MW

155113 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Moomin, #879 of 2191 🔗

Read beyond the headline. He’s being diplomatic, while getting the case against across to those who can’t see beyond the fear. I think Tegnell and all the others are doing the same thing, they’re trying to bring more people on board to accept the rona as endemic.

154985 Mark, replying to Mark, 17, #880 of 2191 🔗

For those wondering about where Laurence Fox might be on the coronapanic, I’ve dug out the interview from August 7th which I think was the origin of my own general feeling that he’s pretty sound on it. He was asked for his view on “the whole covid thing” at about 15:27:

Laurence Fox: The Battle of Our Time is a Defence of Britain & Its Values and a Return From Covid-19
Bear in mind this was nearly two months ago. He started with:

It’s a complex one, isn’t it, the covid thing. I have to confess that as normal I’ve got a weird view on it, which is like if this is – I think we made a decision based on the fact that it was a very much more lethal virus than it was, didn’t we? And then now once everyone’s scared, how do you unscare people?

155164 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 3, #881 of 2191 🔗

Hope some of his £5M can help
Would prefer if someone gave Lord Sumption the money

154986 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 10, #882 of 2191 🔗

In stark contrast to my own MP, just received a lovely response from the office of Sir Graham Brady. Just wondering whether I should relocate to a part of the country where an MP actually responds.

155100 ▶▶ Suitejb, replying to kh1485, 1, #883 of 2191 🔗

Me too last week. I emailed him in the evening and the reply came next day.

155003 Nick Rose, 5, #884 of 2191 🔗
155004 David, replying to David, 3, #885 of 2191 🔗

Here’s my email urging my MP to reject extending the Coronavirus Act in this week’s vote. Please lobby your own MP with something similar.

Dear Mr Stephen Farry MP,

I’m writing as one of your North Down constituents.

You must reject any extension of the Coronavirus Act in the upcoming vote.

The Government estimates a 2.3% false-positive rate for national Covid-19 testing, as stated on page two of the following Government report:


For brevity, here’s an excerpt:

What is the UK operational false positive rate?
The UK operational false positive rate is unknown. There are no published studies on the operational false positive rate of any national COVID-19 testing programme.
An attempt has been made to estimate the likely false-positive rate of national COVID-19 testing programmes by examining data from published external quality assessments (EQAs) for RT-PCR assays for other RNA viruses carried out between 2004-2019 [7]. Results of 43 EQAs were examined, giving a median false positive rate of 2.3% (interquartile range 0.8-4.0%).

This means that if we take the 2.3% rate, and apply it to the 245,363 daily tests reported from Friday 25th September on https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk , then 5,643 of these tests would give a false-positive result.

The daily number of people testing positive (as of Sunday 27th September) is reported as 5,693.

According to the Government, almost all of these 5,693 cases can be classed as false (that’s all cases if we apply a slightly higher rate from the reported interquartile range). This explains why Covid-related deaths over the same period are almost non-existent (17 daily, reported on Sunday 27th September, from a population of 65,000,000, when the all-cause daily death figure is approximately 1,800 according to the Office for National Statistics).

The policies within the increasingly damaging Coronavirus Act have led to the destruction of thousands of businesses and hundreds of thousands of jobs. It has brought about the greatest restriction on personal liberties in centuries. You must not allow the Government to push through an extension.


155097 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to David, 1, #886 of 2191 🔗

I have written to mine but also added that the government needs to be challenged on its faulty interpretation of the 1984 Act, on which a good portion of their SI’s appear to be based. Best reference is to go to the Sumption interview on Planet Normal.

155011 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 7, #887 of 2191 🔗

The dictator tells us he is following the science

On that basis he must accept that there has not been one covid death in the UK

Not one post mortem, or one coroner’s inquest has reported covid as a cause of death

155107 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Cecil B, #888 of 2191 🔗

Do you have a citation for that please? I’m friends with a “celebrity” forensic pathologist and I’d like to put that to him.

155109 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to leggy, #889 of 2191 🔗

I used to know one of those, very famous he was.
Probably still is.

155261 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Cecil B, #890 of 2191 🔗

The reason for that is because there have been no autopsies or inquests as the requirement for them was removed back in March, despite Covid19 being a notifiable disease. There were some undertaken in Oxfordshire, https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(20)30180-8/fulltext

155032 Jules, replying to Jules, 13, #891 of 2191 🔗

According to one tabloid, I see that Boris is cracking down on “Virus Cheats”. Who are they? Those of us who haven’t had it? Went to Tesco this morning without a mobile phone, didn’t wear a mask, didn’t use my Tesco Cliubcard despite the thousands of notices reminding me how much money I could save if I did, paid by cash. Not sure if any of that actually counts as cheating? Still haven’t had the virus, still don’t know anyone that definitely has, still don’t know anyone who knows anyone who definitely has!

155077 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Jules, 3, #892 of 2191 🔗

For what it’s worth, I know two people that have had it, and both quite bad, though not hospitalised. I’m still and arch sceptic.

155179 ▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to Jules, 1, #893 of 2191 🔗

Well done, use cash where you can, avoid loyalty, credit cards and leave mobile at home. All the things we did in the 70’s and 80’s and never thought twice about!

155202 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Girl down Under, 2, #894 of 2191 🔗

Even if one of my parents were to die of it (God forbid) I would remain a sceptic because I know intuitively that the restrictions are KILLING people already through unintended consequences.

155294 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Girl down Under, 1, #895 of 2191 🔗

I actually took a stack of loyalty cards out of my wallet last week and chopped them up with scissors. Best feeling I had all week (obviously not a great week, but I’m sure you understand why).

155276 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jules, 1, #896 of 2191 🔗

Same here, I ask at every company I do work for which must be a good 50 odd since lockdown, no one knows of anyone. Closest I’ve got is a guy I’m currently working with said his son got a cough at school last week and then he caught it, both of them got tested and the tests came back negative.

155392 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Jules, #897 of 2191 🔗

Tesco have very recently started discount schemes for their loyalty cards, e.g. product is £3 but with clubcard is £1.50. Only just come in from what i can see – so a strong incentive to get one.

155033 NickR, replying to NickR, 6, #898 of 2191 🔗

In 2019 there were 2138 suicides by people aged under 40 in England and Wales.
This year 39 people under 40 without ‘pre-existing’ conditions have died of Covid.
That means over 54 times more people committed suicide than died of Covid (who weren’t already seriously ill).
Look at it another way, the average weekly suicide rate of people under 40 is 41.
That means 1 week’s suicide tally is greater than the deaths from Covid.
If suicides amongst the under 40’s increases by 2% (who doesn’t think that’s likely to happen) then this would produce more deaths than Covid has.

155114 ▶▶ BJJ, replying to NickR, 2, #899 of 2191 🔗

I think we are talking about a lot higher increase than 2%

155250 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to NickR, 2, #900 of 2191 🔗

I went to my local non league football match this week and brought a programme whilst their in which their was a advert saying 12 people under 35 who are seemingly completely healthy in every way die from Sudden Arrhythmia Death Syndromes ( SADS ).

So that’s 480 from SADS this years, and this money that has been wasted on COVID-19 would more than likely have easily prevented these 480 deaths if it had been invested in heart scans for those under 35.

155256 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to JohnB, 1, #901 of 2191 🔗

In Germany 2 13y old girls died suddenly, no cause of death established yet, theory is SADS, Some say helped by wearing a face covering.

155260 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Silke David, 3, #902 of 2191 🔗

I had a friend die of SADS about 10 years ago whilst playing in a 5-a-side football match, he was extremely fit and just collapsed during the game and that was it.

I could well bet that wearing a face covering would exacerbate it with the extra stress it puts on breathing and the increase in blood pressure that they cause.

155272 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to JohnB, #903 of 2191 🔗

There’s a web site for cardiac risk in the Young https://www.c-r-y.org.uk/ . This is more common than people imagine.

155041 Olive, replying to Olive, 15, #904 of 2191 🔗

Just been to bank (Nat West) to pay in quite a lot of cash. Was met with anger by the cashier that I did not have the right bags for the coins. She then stated that she was not going to ‘touch all that cash’ so made me re-count and re-bag the cash in front of her….. (She had gloves and all the usual paraphernalia on of course). And it was then me who got grief from the poor people waiting behind me whilst I dropped the odd coin etc and took a while to transfer the coinage.

So bank cashiers now will not even handle cash? Is that not a major part of their reason to be there? WTF?

155059 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Olive, 4, #905 of 2191 🔗

Natwest is very over the top about covid,they all seem utterly brainwashed.If our branch is anything to go by,they will have soon replaced all of the staff by machines anyway.

155062 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Olive, 9, #906 of 2191 🔗

These fools won’t be there much longer in their stupid bank jobs.

155072 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Olive, 10, #907 of 2191 🔗

Well, you see, worldwide there have been a number of cases of Covid being caught from money. What was that figure again? I know it was a ’round’ number…

155108 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Olive, 5, #908 of 2191 🔗

I would have said. “No problem, just close the account please and I’ll take my business elsewhere.” Some of these idiots won’t learn until they’ve done themselves out of a job.

155132 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Olive, 2, #909 of 2191 🔗

Doesn’t the bank have a machine that counts cash?

155264 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #910 of 2191 🔗

Yes, it does. They probably have been told not to use it “in case it’s contaminated”. Like others have said, these people don’t realise that their jobs are all slowly slipping away.

155449 ▶▶ Steve, replying to Olive, #911 of 2191 🔗

That’s been a problem since well before covid. Had a similar experience years ago while paying in some cash we’d raised one church fundraiser.

Nyway don’t they have the automatic counting machines in your branch? In the Chorley Natwest branch you just pour it all in now. No bags required.

155042 PastImperfect, replying to PastImperfect, 8, #912 of 2191 🔗

This is what I have sent to my MP.

I have major concerns about the way the government is still being manipulated into devastating the fabric of society. When I was very young, people around the world were fighting and dying to preserve their, and our, freedoms. These freedoms are being swept away by our government that is taking instructions from unelected and unscrupulous “advisors”.

These advisors purport to be “following the science”. However, they distort and manipulate real science and present faulty conclusions to the public with the help of colluding mass media. They are aided and abetted by a team of psychologists and by disinformation purveyed by an army brigade.

You have a duty to represent your Constituents and end this pernicious activity by the government. May I remind you of a speech by Winston Churchill, given at a time of comparable existential peril:

But if we fail, then the whole world, including the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of perverted science. Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties,…”

I therefore ask you to consider the dangers and to speak and vote against any extension to the Coronavirus Act.

155063 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to PastImperfect, 3, #913 of 2191 🔗

Anyone seen the Mail? Saying the Speaker will NOT allow the Brady amendment!

155197 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Carrie, 1, #914 of 2191 🔗

I think this means it is a straight vote.

Choice is extend the legislation or get rid of it totally.

No 3rd option of keeping it if we can pretend to debate it for the look of things then pass and approve it anyway which is what I understand the “Brady Amendment” is.

Basically a yes/no vote and nail your colours to the mast for all to see.

155303 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, #915 of 2191 🔗

Be interesting to see if any brave MPs will vote against the extension..

155044 Al Pipp, replying to Al Pipp, 12, #916 of 2191 🔗

Whether you love or hate him – I am hoping Trump wins a second term because mainstream media will forget all about COVID and start going crazy about Trump.

BORIS is a media man and he will then forget all about COVID because publix c opinion will be all about Trump.

Let’s hope …

155071 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Al Pipp, 10, #917 of 2191 🔗

To be honest, having seen what Trump said to the WEF at Davos, I’m beginning to think he’s on our side in all of this.

155082 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to leggy, 4, #918 of 2191 🔗


155214 ▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to leggy, 1, #919 of 2191 🔗

They’ve done a full 180 degree turn… their current epidemiological advisers are pushing back pretty strongly – to the point where they’re openly rejecting Fauci’s assertions in press conferences. Great to see.

155348 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Tee Ell, #920 of 2191 🔗

Trump should have had Atlas in from the start. He couldn’t stop state lockdowns, but he could have at least tried to persuade against them.

156254 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to leggy, #921 of 2191 🔗

A couple of good points –

He promoted HCQ.

He appointed Dr. Atlas as a foil to the corrupt Fauci (with interest in Remdesivir)


155154 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Al Pipp, 3, #922 of 2191 🔗

Biden and the Democrats seem very pro mask and pro lockdown
Trump less so
So I think a Trump win is good for us
Appreciate some might find him distasteful but more or less all I care about at present is stopping global medico fascism from taking hold completely

155273 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Julian, #923 of 2191 🔗

I hate Trump with a passion and as an American citizen could act on that feeling. However, the things that Biden has come out with make me despair, so I will actually sit this one out. I agree, ending this dystopian nightmare is the most important thing.

155194 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Al Pipp, 3, #924 of 2191 🔗

At least he is trying to keep businesses open. Biden wants a national lockdown and a national mask mandate.

155226 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Al Pipp, 6, #925 of 2191 🔗

I’ve been through all the stages of grief with Trump.

  1. Mockery thinking he was a joke
  2. Fear that he would be elected
  3. Horror that he was
  4. Disgust at his antics
  5. Silent recognition that some of his actions were actually sensible
  6. Reluctant acceptance that perhaps he’s not an idiot after all
  7. The more vocal “I think he’s repulsive as a person but…” phase
  8. Secretly quite liking him but not openly admitting it
  9. And finally openly admitting I’d vote for him in a heartbeat

It’s been a painful journey…

155048 Jim Binks, replying to Jim Binks, 10, #926 of 2191 🔗

Went to the local Sainsburys this morning. First time I have been challenged since the 25th July by member of staff at the door. “you have to wear a mask” Polite reply exempt thanks no issues and no issues in the shop. KBO.

155253 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Jim Binks, 1, #927 of 2191 🔗

I always make a point of smiling at the security guard and saying a very friendly “hi!” and still haven’t been challenged in a supermarket yet. I sometimes whether by getting the first word in it makes them think “well if he’s engaged with me and doesn’t have a mask, he probably has a reason”.

155050 NickR, replying to NickR, 4, #928 of 2191 🔗

This chart shows cumulative average (based on 2019) suicides plotted against Covid deaths for the 15-24 year olds.
Bearing in mind that 84% of Covid fatalities amongst the under 40’s had a pre-existing condition, we are massively overstating the true Covid deaths here. So, of the 35 Covid fatalities only 5 or 6 will have been of people without comobidities.
I can understand parents being worried about their kids going back to university but not because of Covid!

155066 ▶▶ RickH, replying to NickR, 2, #929 of 2191 🔗

Good work, Nick.

155067 ▶▶ leggy, replying to NickR, 3, #930 of 2191 🔗

Suicide data from 2019 too right? It’ll be a lot higher this year. One of my 18 year daughter’s friends topped themselves because of all this the week before last.

155073 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to leggy, 5, #931 of 2191 🔗

A 2% increase in suicides of under 40s would be higher than all the covid deaths of under 40s.

155083 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to leggy, 2, #932 of 2191 🔗

That’s another one I have heard about then in the last 3 months, so that’s 5 teenagers who have topped them selves that I have heard of from various people. A random sample shall we say, what’s the chance of that?

Out of the very few random people I have talked to since March, half of them have said they know teenagers who have killed themselves.

155128 ▶▶▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Two-Six, 1, #933 of 2191 🔗

More than people who know of anyone who has died of covid. This is so very sad, yet they will still shrill, if it saves one life, but stuff any lives lost from restrictions.

155118 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to NickR, 4, #934 of 2191 🔗

Thank you for this. I am completing a letter to my priest regarding the supine response of the church and its continued compliance to government diktats – church and state are separate entities, I thought. I have already attached the open letter by the Belgian doctors and will add this to present a little more perspective to the Covid risk.

155186 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to NickR, #935 of 2191 🔗

I have read quite a few reports here about teen or young people suicides in the circle of friends/acquaintances/ friend of a friend of contributors here.
Saturday it was the chap whose gym owner apparently knew 5!
I told this to my father in Germany and he was shocked to silence. He goes along with restrictions, but is concerned for the future of his only grandchild.

155055 NickR, replying to NickR, 11, #936 of 2191 🔗

Here’s the profile of average weekly suicides of 15-24 year olds (11) plotted against the profile of all Covid deaths. Again, bear in mind that 84% of the Covid deaths were with comorbidities.

155064 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to NickR, 2, #937 of 2191 🔗

That is powerful. An important message for vice-chancellors.

155150 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to NickR, 2, #938 of 2191 🔗

An order of magnitude greater problem and yet it won’t be touched with a retractable, telesopic bargepole.

155163 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to NickR, 1, #939 of 2191 🔗

At first I thought, great, I include this in my flyer as evidence, then I realised it is suicides in 2019. I expect we will not have anything from the gov until next year.

155230 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to Silke David, 3, #940 of 2191 🔗

It seems highly unlikely the figure will be lower in 2020! I think it’s staggering.
Under 40s 54 x more likely to kill themselves than die of covid, and that’s before any increase this year.

155259 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to NickR, #941 of 2191 🔗

I just do not think I can use this as an argument as people will say: That was last year!
Of course this year numbers will be much higher. Sadly. So distressing.

155381 ▶▶▶▶▶ NickR, replying to Silke David, #942 of 2191 🔗

That’s an odd argument, if we compare something to the average then we’re comparing the current with things that happened in the past. Suicides, like road deaths, cancer deaths, football scores, are fairly predictable, they don’t vary much year on year.

155432 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to NickR, 2, #943 of 2191 🔗

I bet the suicide rate in 2020 will be considerably higher than 2019…

155211 ▶▶ stewart, replying to NickR, #944 of 2191 🔗

Send it to your MP

155236 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to stewart, #945 of 2191 🔗

No, of course it’s not right, that’s why it says ‘average’. The figures are only published for the whole year so I divided by 52.

155262 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to NickR, #946 of 2191 🔗

Yep, realised after I wrote the comment, and correct. Sorry.

155065 Verity Oran, replying to Verity Oran, 95, #947 of 2191 🔗

I was at the protest on Saturday and was initially frightened by the police tactics and behaviour. Once I had escaped from the immediate vicinity of the baton wielding, crowd provoking ‘guardians of law and order’, I was angry and came to the realisation that I have been angry for months:

I am angry at the government
I am angry at Johnson, Witty, Hancock and Vallance for their role in this
I am angry at all the MPs who are not standing up to this
I am angry at the scaremongering media
I am angry at the medical profession not speaking out
I am angry at all the good decent policemen and policewomen going along with this
I am angry at the malevolent looks I get from the masked when I go mask free
I am angry at people who cant distinguish between case numbers, hospitalisations and deaths
I am angry about thinking twice about going to buy groceries because I am the only mask free person in the shop
I am angry at being disparagingly known as the ‘the one who believes in herd immunity’
I am angry at friends who think they are intelligent, independent thinkers but have now downloaded the NHS app
I am angry at the judiciary for the postponement of Simon Dolan’s court case
I am angry at being the only mask free person on the train carriage
I am angry at all the lives and livelihoods that are being destroyed
I am angry at all the people who cant see that their liberty is slowly being eroded under the guise of safety
I am angry at the soulless world we are now living in

But most of all I am angry at myself for feeling all this anger and feeling powerless to change anything………….

155069 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Verity Oran, 18, #948 of 2191 🔗

Join the angry brigade. It’s hell innit.

155099 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Verity Oran, 10, #949 of 2191 🔗

Well said. This is everything I’m feeling too.

155121 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Verity Oran, 11, #950 of 2191 🔗

Not being smug. I felt the only option was to leave the country and I did

I know people will say they have commitments etc. I do sympathise

The British library is about to start burning books. The extra judicial killing of sceptics will surely follow

Your call

155146 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Cecil B, 10, #951 of 2191 🔗

Who wrote the poem:
When they came for the socialist I did not say anything as I am not a socialist and so on.
It is horrible to live in Britain right now, I just went shopping, and although I have no fear about being challenged to wear a face covering, I felt anxious in the shop because of the – what I interpreted to be – dirty looks of face covered people.
I realised they are envious.
I quit work over these regulations, and I intend to use my now free time to make a leaflet and leaflet households.
As much as I understand Cecil B, and I too have the option to leave, I’d rather stay and fight.

155222 ▶▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Silke David, 3, #952 of 2191 🔗

Your call, many brave Jews never saw 1945

155331 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Silke David, -1, #953 of 2191 🔗

It was Pastor Niemoller. And the first line is: First they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.

Of course, he was lying. The reason he did not speak out was because he agreed with the oppression being as he was a Nazi.

155192 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Cecil B, 1, #954 of 2191 🔗

Where did you choose?

155218 ▶▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to leggy, 1, #955 of 2191 🔗

This site is monitored by you know who

155298 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cecil B, #956 of 2191 🔗

The 77th brigade do seem to be ignoring this site..

155330 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Carrie, 2, #957 of 2191 🔗

That’s because we’re too intelligent and well informed for them to nudge the narrative in the direction they want and we can spot them a mile off.

155252 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Cecil B, #958 of 2191 🔗

But which country is better? You don’t have to say where you are if you’re not comfortable revealing it.

155293 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to ConstantBees, #959 of 2191 🔗

The 77 brigade do seem to be ignoring it…

155383 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Cecil B, 1, #960 of 2191 🔗

i’m thinking of getting an irish passport which i’m eligible for, and when my work makes me redundant which will come given time, then get the hell out of this country. A small hut in greece with a vineyard and a donkey will do me fine!! 🙂

155490 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Sue, 1, #961 of 2191 🔗

Sorry – the government and country here are as big a pack of bedwetters as they are in the UK.

156369 ▶▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to Sue, #962 of 2191 🔗

Sounds great. Might come and join you.

155169 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Verity Oran, 6, #963 of 2191 🔗

Same. I am also angry at the senior civil servants who have supported, or at least accepted, all of this to keep their slimey arses on the gravy train.

155204 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Verity Oran, 4, #964 of 2191 🔗

I would encourage you to direct that anger towards anyone who is either complying or cooperating with the government’s measures.

They need to feel discomfort like you to snap out of their trance.

155255 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to stewart, 4, #965 of 2191 🔗

I have to admit that I’ve given up on smiling at the masked ones. It’s like smiling at a fence post. I think I’m walking around with a permanent frown now.

155269 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to ConstantBees, 2, #966 of 2191 🔗

BUT we SHOULD be walking with a smile!!
Show people how much fun it is!
I make a point of smiling and greeting people on my walk!

155679 ▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Silke David, 3, #967 of 2191 🔗

It would be more fun without the masked ones everywhere I go. Far too many people wearing them outside now.

155288 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to ConstantBees, #968 of 2191 🔗

So do I most of the time.

155268 ▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to Verity Oran, 10, #969 of 2191 🔗

As the old cliche goes, you are not alone. I was having a cry on Saturday and thought, why am I weeping like I haven’t since the day my Mum died?. The reason was for all those things that you have listed and my inability to do anything about it. I have always been a pacifist, but now I spend my time wishing nasty things on all those responsible for this atrocity.

155367 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Verity Oran, 1, #970 of 2191 🔗

me too – I’m angry that the government have made me angry!!!

155369 ▶▶ PhilipF, replying to Verity Oran, #971 of 2191 🔗

I’m mad as hell, too.
I’m wondering if I would take the blue pill of ignorance if I could. I think I would not, but it would be tempting.

155693 ▶▶ Kathryn, replying to Verity Oran, 1, #972 of 2191 🔗

I don’t think you’re alone either. I feel totally angry about all the points you make too. I’m usually very easy going, but this stupidity that seems to have no end but just gets worse each week is really getting me down.

155827 ▶▶ helen, replying to Verity Oran, #973 of 2191 🔗

I’m in Germany and I am angry at your government and I am angry at my government.

Now I will write a rhyming poem inspired by you which I hope might quell your anger of a millisecond at least

I am angry at the your governments’ advisers who are in the pay of Bill Gates
and I am angry at my governments’ advisers who are also in the pay of Bill Gates
I am angry at the WHO whose main funder is Bill Gates
and I am angry at the UN to whom Bill Gates
donates money. I am angry at a system that allows a dumb cluck with no morals like Bill Gates
to buy out all the institutions in the whole wide world. I think we all have every right to be FURIOUS so _ _ _ _ Bill Gates!

155080 FlynnQuill, replying to FlynnQuill, 28, #974 of 2191 🔗

My wife and I went to one of our local café yesterday morning. We live in Seaham and it has a thriving café culture. It is the first time since these new stupid rules came in. It’ll be the last time until this is all over, if it ever is. The experience was the most depressing I’ve had in my fifty years on this planet. Wear a mask to walk in, then take it off when you sit down. Why? Does the virus only infect people when they are standing up? If I wanted to go to the toilet which was literally five foot from our table, wear a mask. It was driving me absolutely insane, I thought I was going to explode.

One women came in to to the café, and because she was only around 6 inches from where she did not need to wear a mask she was chastised by the owner. The owner who I know is a lockdown sceptic because we chatted about it during the first lockdown when the café was doing takeaway coffee. I couldn’t help myself and retorted to the lady ‘the the virus knows exactly where you are and what you are doing at any time of the day. However, if you hurry and sit down and take your mask off, you’ll be fine because the virus knows that you are having a meal/coffee and won’t come anywhere near you’. She smiled and took her mask off. Others in the café, looked at me like I was the lunatic for spouting such truths!

155229 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to FlynnQuill, 6, #975 of 2191 🔗

For Seaham: Ditto Ludlow.
One table is 2 ft from the door but you must put a mask on, then take it off etc, ad infinitum.

155429 ▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #976 of 2191 🔗

This Saturday I was at a pub in a rather well of part of London.. We walked to the door and the hostess said to my wife please wear a mask while you are walking to you table. She said my husband is exempt and she just said of course, no problem get right in. Did not wear a mask at any point an nobody looked at me sideways. I guess in rather posh parts of London this sort of thing can effect business rather badly so they do not ask any questions. Of course everybody else in the pub was muzzled up..

155249 ▶▶ RichardJames, replying to FlynnQuill, 4, #977 of 2191 🔗

Yes, I was annoyed by this at the local Harvester Inn. I said I was exempt to avoid this mask on-mask off nonsense. and then was harangued by the door nazi, who is the only real bed-wetter in the place. If he tries it next Sunday (this is our regular Sunday watering-hole, then it’s a swift conversation with the Head Office as to why I won’t be returning.

155081 Tommo, replying to Tommo, 7, #978 of 2191 🔗

Just visited local co-op and paid at the self service tills. Since my last visit two weeks ago, they have installed camera on each till, which flashes up ‘recording’ when you stand in front of the till. What the heck is this? What will the do with this footage?!

155084 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Tommo, 6, #979 of 2191 🔗

Sainsbury’s also have this. I don’t go to Sainsbury’s any more. Won’t be long before all shop staff have body cameras. A lot of supermarket bouncers already have them.

155435 ▶▶▶ Steve, replying to Tenchy, #980 of 2191 🔗

It’s in Asda too.

155125 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Tommo, 2, #981 of 2191 🔗

It’s to stop people scanning expensive items as a sack of loose potatoes.

Not that I have ever done this obviously 😀

155141 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tee Ell, #982 of 2191 🔗

Maybe also to film the proportion of people not wearing masks?

155152 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Tommo, 2, #983 of 2191 🔗

Are there any signs alerting customers to the recording and what it’s being used for?

155254 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to PoshPanic, #984 of 2191 🔗

Which will be ignored. Remember the Corbyn train carriage incident. Signs everywhere saying it is for purposes of crime prevention, but virgin just ignored it and gave the footage to the media.

155426 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Tommo, 1, #985 of 2191 🔗

Simple — ask them. This is personal data and it is a legal requirement that they have a policy and that they should tell you what it is. If they raise difficulties, complain to the Information Commissioner’s Office, details on their website

155484 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Richard Pinch, #986 of 2191 🔗

Request CCTV footage of yourself

You have the right to request CCTV footage of yourself.

You need to make a request to the owner of the CCTV system. You can do this either in writing or verbally.

The owner’s details are usually written on a sign attached to the camera, unless the owner is obvious (like a shop).

Tell them you’re requesting information held about you under data protection law. The Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO) has guidance about getting copies of your personal data .

Provide information to help the owner identify you, for example:

a specific date and time

proof of your identity

a description of yourself

The CCTV owner must usually provide the footage free of charge within 1 calendar month.

Most CCTV footage is deleted 30 days after it’s recorded.

The CCTV owner might not be allowed to share any footage if:

other people can be seen in it

they’re not able to edit out people to protect their identity

The CCTV owner can invite you to a viewing of the footage if:

they’re unable to provide you with the footage itself

you agree to that arrangement

They can refuse your request if sharing the footage could put an ongoing criminal investigation at risk.

The ICO has guidance about requesting footage

155101 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 1, #987 of 2191 🔗

Just a thought but the Zoe Covid Symptom Survey base their estimates on the amount reporting symptoms. Should we all download and report our lack of symptoms to reduce their ridiculous figures or would the numbers be too small to make a difference?

155104 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sarigan, 10, #988 of 2191 🔗

I have asymptomatic Ebola RIGHT NOW.

155115 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Two-Six, 3, #989 of 2191 🔗

Please wear your mask to protect me 😉

155123 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sarigan, 8, #990 of 2191 🔗

I coughed out the window 30 minutes ago we have a WSW wind blowing at 10 Mph right now, so my Ebola germs will be with you in about 2 and a half hours. Sorry. Too late

155171 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Sarigan, 7, #991 of 2191 🔗

If this is our response to a common cold type virus we will probably be incinerating people in their houses if we ever had an ebola outbreak. The fire brigades job will reverse to become ensuring the fire burns as hot as possible to kill the germs and takes down as much of the surrounding buildings as possible to be on the safe side.

155237 ▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Saved To Death, 4, #992 of 2191 🔗

Fahrenheit 451. The temperature at which paper ignites.

155307 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Two-Six, 2, #993 of 2191 🔗

I have asymptomatic bubonic plage.

155335 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to stewart, 2, #994 of 2191 🔗

Could you smuggle yourself into the HOC and sneakily share it out?

And then do a flying visit to Holyrood?

155153 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Sarigan, 2, #995 of 2191 🔗

I have been reporting zero every day on that app for months. they dont count the zeros unfortunately

155102 2 pence, 1, #996 of 2191 🔗
155110 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 5, #997 of 2191 🔗

The depravity of the COVID propaganda merchants knows no bounds. This from The Guardian:

A campaign to dispel Covid-19 conspiracy theories, featuring residents who have lost loved ones to the virus, has been launched in Bradford.

The “behind the mask” social media posts, posters and billboards launched by Bradford council and Community Action Bradford show stories of local people in order to urge others to adhere to restrictions.

One image shows resident Iqrah, whose 30-year-old aunt died after contracting coronavirus, leaving behind her husband and one-year-old child. “You think it’s a conspiracy theory? Tell that to my family,” it reads.

Another shows Kirsty, a Bradford mother who had to stay apart from her daughter for 12 weeks because she was shielding.

It is hoped the campaign will show the ways the virus has impacted lives in the city – where the Covid rate is currently at 134.7 per 100,000 people – as well as highlighting guidance such as wearing face coverings and social distancing.

Soo Nevison, of Community Action Bradford and District, told the BBC:

“There are still people who believe coronavirus isn’t real and don’t want to believe the severity of the illness.

The case studies prove otherwise and at a time when we have spikes in infection rates, now more than ever, we need to protect ourselves and those around us”.

155134 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Tenchy, 12, #998 of 2191 🔗

Emotional blackmail is a tried and tested technique though, so no surprise.

155390 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to leggy, 1, #999 of 2191 🔗

Straight from SAGE’s despicable book of tricks…

155136 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Tenchy, 11, #1000 of 2191 🔗


Shows they are getting desperate and feel they are losing the argument

155140 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Tenchy, 10, #1001 of 2191 🔗

Worthy of Goebbels.

155149 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Tenchy, 4, #1002 of 2191 🔗

but its not very severe unless you are at the pearly gates already

155205 ▶▶ matt, replying to Tenchy, 4, #1003 of 2191 🔗

‘Case studies’ – also know as ‘anecdotes’ prove nothing.

Data can be compelling and the data say that this is not an especially severe illness.

155323 ▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to matt, 1, #1004 of 2191 🔗

Incredibly effective though.

It sounds a bit like a Damien Hirst exhibition title but it’s like “the impossibility of irrationality in the mind of someone logical”. I feel I need to learn to make the irrational but emotive arguments more effectively.

155304 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1005 of 2191 🔗

When the data doesn’t sustain the lie, they turn to stories and anecdotes.

155313 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Tenchy, 6, #1006 of 2191 🔗

I suppose one could equally find stories of people who died of other things (cancer etc) because the NHS no longer treats anything other than covid.

155322 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tenchy, #1007 of 2191 🔗

Hopefully the advice to do this will show up in the next lot of SAGE minutes..

155388 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tenchy, 5, #1008 of 2191 🔗

Now let’s produce some similar posters for flu, cancer, traffic accidents, falling down the stairs… A distant family member of mine in his twenties fell down the stairs, broke his neck and died on the spot, let’s ban stairs! £10,000 fine if you’re ever spotted in one of your upstairs rooms ever again – call the police hotline if you spot your neighbour’s lights on!

I also find it a bit puzzling – so the 30-year-old only died because it was someone else’s fault. Someone else was careless enough to catch the virus and “spread” it to this poor person. But who’s to say that any person who catches it wasn’t being careless? Perhaps in fact it’s just a virus and people catch them sometimes whatever they do? Perhaps it’s NO ONE’S FAULT.

155411 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1009 of 2191 🔗

Or perhaps the thirty year old went into hospital with another condition entirely and caught covid in the hospital?

155124 Sikboy, replying to Sikboy, 17, #1010 of 2191 🔗

It’s been a while since I last posted anything, but I have been enjoying the level of debate and interaction. Clearly classy people on here.

I’ve bounced between hope and despair in recent weeks, however thinking about the long game I’m convinced the mask zealots and elites are overplaying their hand. Yes, the local haunts I frequent are sadly being forced into being a little more hardline. That said, I’ve had open interactions in cafes with people who are clearly fed up and aren’t buying it anymore.

I think people who were never reasoned into this zealot position will never be reasoned back out of it, but there are a growing number of people open to discussion. This can be only a good thing.

Long game everyone, we will win the argument long term. Keep up the pressure!

155133 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Sikboy, 4, #1011 of 2191 🔗


Keep buggering on

Stay sane and stick together with your sceptic friends and family

155189 ▶▶▶ Sikboy, replying to Julian, #1012 of 2191 🔗

Absolutely, I’m using a variety of approaches too. Data for those ready and a little emotion for those stuck in the feedback loop of compliance.

155173 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sikboy, 5, #1013 of 2191 🔗

Thing is, will these people actually DO anything, beyond muttering that they are fed up with the situation? Or will they just sigh, download the app and wear a mask…

155184 ▶▶▶ Sikboy, replying to Carrie, #1014 of 2191 🔗

Good point, after we get to the inevitable tipping point, they’ll be onboard. It’s too early for that sort yet.

155243 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Carrie, #1015 of 2191 🔗

Expecting people to do something might be a bit much. Better to hope they don’t do things (e.g. don’t download the app) if they think they can get away with it.

155240 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Sikboy, 1, #1016 of 2191 🔗

Which is why they insist upon and currently strengthen social distancing laws: to prevent such uncontrollable dissent from arising and spreading.

155247 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Sikboy, #1017 of 2191 🔗

Truly hope so.

155292 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Sikboy, 2, #1018 of 2191 🔗

I think people who were never reasoned into this zealot position will never be reasoned back

Couldn’t agree more.
But they will respond to threats and coercion – as indeed they have to reach their current stance.
That’s why I’m done being nice. The info has been out there long enough. If you are still with the government position, then you’re getting a not very friendly earful from me.

155130 leggy, replying to leggy, 3, #1019 of 2191 🔗

We’ve all probably seen more graphs in the last six months than the whole rest of our lives combined! I become more and more worried that this is all more to do with this graph though.

155137 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to leggy, 2, #1020 of 2191 🔗

Well thats due to a lack of genocidal global mass warfare.

155138 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1021 of 2191 🔗

I am sure they will fix this soon. It’s a must be.

155165 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Two-Six, 3, #1022 of 2191 🔗

Gates has already said that that is the plan..

155206 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Carrie, 2, #1023 of 2191 🔗

One for the conspiracy theorists:


Look away if you maintain this is all incompetence.

155305 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1024 of 2191 🔗

Actually, it is due to the Industrial Revolution.

155485 ▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Steve Hayes, #1025 of 2191 🔗

4th Industrial Revolution is all there on the WEF site.

155170 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to leggy, 1, #1026 of 2191 🔗

The chanel 4 (now bought by HBO?) dystopian drama series, Utopia, is unerringly close to this line of thinking. In the series, world governments determine that population growth triggered by the mass use of hydrocarbon fuels in the late 19th century is about to come to an end and plan to unleash a virus for mass population reduction (or vaccine for a virus, it’s a while since I watched it).

155482 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Cicatriz, #1027 of 2191 🔗

It was infertility caused by something distributed in food if I recall. Was an entertaining series, I think it’s available to watch on Amazon.

155219 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to leggy, #1028 of 2191 🔗

Interesting this report reckons population grown will slow down considerably:

Earth will be home to 8.8 billion souls in 2100, two billion fewer than
current UN projections, according to a major study published Wednesday
that foresees new global power alignments shaped by declining fertility
rates and greying populations.

However, the report was funded by – you guess it! – the Bill and & Melinda Gates Foundation. Perhaps they’ve already accounted for Covid-adjusted growth.

155267 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to zacaway, 1, #1029 of 2191 🔗

Vaccine- ‘adjusted’ lack of growth more like..

155321 ▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Carrie, #1030 of 2191 🔗

Good catch, I think that’s what I meant!

155521 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to zacaway, #1031 of 2191 🔗

Bit weird how human fertility is going to fall of a cliff all of a sudden. They put that down to women being more educated?!

155131 wendyk, 8, #1032 of 2191 🔗

This is entirely trivial, but, feeling somewhat reckless, I decided to investigate Christmas charity cards online.

There is a definite preponderance of sheep themes for the forthcoming season of joy and goodwill!!; a sign of the times perhaps?

A small diversion to try and escape for a few moments from the sense that we are now being managed by cyborgs in human guise who are determined to deprive us of any and every opportunity to live normally.

Secondly, weekly walk arranged for tomorrow with friend and neighbour- weather permitting. However, she cannot countenance the risks which might arise if we have coffee in her house, despite my assurances that all will be well ,and that we could relax chez moi if this would help.

She Who Must Be Obeyed has decided that a couple of healthy folk meeting as normal indoors ,could precipitate a lethal chain of events, with mass deaths a distinct possibility.

The Sturgeonisms are now straining my sanity and temper control to the limit.

155139 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 8, #1033 of 2191 🔗

Just realised what PCR stands for. Politically Controlled Reality.

155235 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Achilles, 1, #1034 of 2191 🔗

Prats Control Reality?

155241 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Achilles, #1035 of 2191 🔗

Prevent Control Repress

155290 ▶▶▶ Mr Bee, replying to wendyk, 1, #1036 of 2191 🔗

Poppycock Continually Repeated

155306 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Mr Bee, #1037 of 2191 🔗

Preempt Condemn Renege

155309 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to wendyk, 1, #1038 of 2191 🔗

Poorly Confirmed Result

155316 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to DRW, #1039 of 2191 🔗

Pathetic Conservative Renegades

155312 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to wendyk, #1040 of 2191 🔗

Pernicious Confabulation Repression

155142 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1041 of 2191 🔗

Just started watching today’s UKColumn podcast.

They are talking about the new covert intelligence bill and it goes on about “covert human intelligence sources”

One question:

Why is the word “human” included?

As opposed to aliens? Non-humans? Computer or artificial intelligence?

155196 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1042 of 2191 🔗

“covert human intelligence sources” sounds like spies / infiltrators to me (MI5?).
Whereas “covert intelligence sources” could be just phone taps, monitoring comms etc. (i.e. GCHQ’s area).

155212 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1043 of 2191 🔗

It’s a posh name for informers

155232 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 2, #1044 of 2191 🔗

Correction ‘paid informers’

155315 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Cecil B, #1046 of 2191 🔗

You burst my daydream, was hoping the theory of aliens being in charge was coming out as that is better than humans destroying ourselves with this mass stupidity.

155148 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 9, #1047 of 2191 🔗

I see the Thought Police could be on their way to Manchester. The Telegraph (paywall):


Locked-down Manchester students could face police action over window protest signs

Students made posters saying ‘HMP Manchester’ and ‘refund’ as they were self-isolating

Students locked in their halls were plunged into further chaos after police action was threatened yesterday over posters protesting [against] the measures.
Manchester Metropolitan University (MMU) said it respected students ‘right to express themselves’ after reversing an earlier edict to remove all window posters, but warned of police involvement if signs ‘broke the law’.

155155 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Tenchy, 7, #1048 of 2191 🔗

What exactly constitutes breaking the law in this case?

155178 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Cicatriz, 6, #1049 of 2191 🔗

They’ll soon find a reason and then do another copy and paste statutory instrument after the event.

We are now approaching guilty until proven innocent :employed so efficiently by the mediaeval Inquisition, Hitler’s henchmen and Uncle Jo Stalin’s purge squads.

155224 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Cicatriz, 7, #1050 of 2191 🔗

There isn’t a reason. This is what the likes of MMU and Cressida Dick and other such people say when they want people to take their signs down; some will be unsure and therefore comply, and this is what they want.

It is bullying and intimidation by inference. Look for similar examples as you read the papers. You’ll never see a public statement by a police officer without at least one example. It’s otherwise referred to as “lying”.

155437 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to RichardJames, #1051 of 2191 🔗

That’s my suspicion. The complete lack of a specific qualifier leads me to believe that is nothing but hot air masquarading as a threat.

155159 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1052 of 2191 🔗


155162 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1053 of 2191 🔗

Right to free speech?
A job for Toby here..

155175 ▶▶ Suzyv, replying to Tenchy, 5, #1054 of 2191 🔗

How can a poster in your window break the law? Art 10 Human Rights Act – Freedom of Speech. Oh I forgot all legislation no longer applies.

155195 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Tenchy, 6, #1055 of 2191 🔗

What law?

As there has not been one prosecution since March it’s a bullshit threat

Dear students, did you pay your fees by credit card? If you did cancel the payment (you have 100 days) as the goods/services you were promised have not been provided

Then get out of the country, life is too short

155285 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Tenchy, #1056 of 2191 🔗

If they get arrested, PACE will ensure they have superior treatment

155328 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1057 of 2191 🔗

They should put two signs up – one anti-lockdown and one BLM defund the police one. See which one they make them take down first.

155333 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to zacaway, 2, #1058 of 2191 🔗

We know the answer already!

155160 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 11, #1059 of 2191 🔗

Just had the misfortune to see this report (on line) from the Express and Star in the West Midlands.
“2,000 reports by whistleblowers to police concerning lockdown violations by businesses in the black country”
I am a pacifist but the way I am feeling now, these wretches could sleep forever.

155326 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1060 of 2191 🔗

I would imagine the police are well sick when they get such a call.

155638 ▶▶ Old Bill, replying to Fingerache Philip., #1061 of 2191 🔗


About the same as those that baton charge peaceful protesters I guess.

155174 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 11, #1062 of 2191 🔗

Here’s a update of a graph I did a while ago. It shows how deaths aren’t rising compared to “cases”. Please feel free to comment. My plan is to allow people to print this off and hand it out so the final version will be laid out better for printing. Thanks

155182 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Lockdown Truth, #1063 of 2191 🔗

good one

155310 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Lockdown Truth, #1064 of 2191 🔗

It has a striking impact.

When you say:-

>>>Assuming the number of deaths is roughly proportional to the number of cases then the “shape” of the death curve should be fairly similar in shape.<<<

What proportion are you applying?

Should you factor in a two or three week lag twixt cases and deaths? Maybe not because the final result would not look much different.

Here’s a curiosity.

Johnson’s “rule of six” was announced two weeks ago. Since when deaths have gone from 12 to 30 (as of yesterday- using the seven day average). In the two weeks before he made the announcement cases went up from 1,244 30th August to 3,001 (7 day average again and using read offs from:- https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/ ). A higher rate of increase!

Why does the worldometers graph showing a rise from 1,244 to 3,001 look steep – but a rise from 12 to 30 look almost flat. ‘Tis all to do with scale no doubt. Even so I still find it puzzling.

My suggestion for the final sentence is

So should we be worried?

I’d like to see it given the same coverage as the Whitty and Valance graph.

155334 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Ned of the Hills, #1065 of 2191 🔗

Thanks. As I said, it’s not super scientific but assuming the rate of deaths is a function of the number of cases then the death curve should broadly mirror the case curve. So I shrunk the case curve and laid it over the start of the death curve (thereby allowing for the lag). They don’t match perfectly. The case curve has that dip at the peak and the top is wider but it’s not a million miles off. But the BIG difference is the missing rise in deaths during this “second wave”.

155459 ▶▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Lockdown Truth, #1066 of 2191 🔗

>>>But the BIG difference is the missing rise in deaths during this “second wave”<<<


But we have a prediction (à la Medley) it will be 100 in 3 to 4 weeks and 200 (à la Whitty) by mid- November.

155347 ▶▶ Mayo, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #1067 of 2191 🔗

A couple of points.

Firstly you cannot compare early case numbers with current numbers. Testing has increased hugely.

Secondly, this has made it difficult to compare fatality rates. How many deaths, for example, would be expected per 1000 positive cases. IFR estimates suggest it might be about 5 – and these would occur around 3 weeks after infection.

While we, in the NH, might have developed better immunity since March via more sunshine and this may reduce IFR, I don’t think there’s strong evidence that the virus is less lethal.

155361 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Mayo, 2, #1068 of 2191 🔗

Yes I know. I’m not comparing them… the Government is. I’m highlighting their stupidity.

155181 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 10, #1069 of 2191 🔗

George Freeman, Tory MP, on Sky discussing the student situation. Thank God someone gets it – he is spitting blood (he has a 19 year old, so assume he has a kid who is a fresher).

Some of these universities shouldn’t exist. They need to be shut down, the VCs and their admin blobs made redundant on basic redundancy terms, with pensions capped at average wage, and the campuses used for redevelopment as social housing.

155188 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #1070 of 2191 🔗

Is there any way to take legal action against the universities? Surely there is some sort of contract that in exchange for X fees students can expect something in return? At the very least, a refund should be in order if they cannot deliver what has been paid for.

155216 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to zacaway, 4, #1071 of 2191 🔗

This is what I suggested in a recent thread; surely university movers and shakers must bear some ultimate responsibility for this mess.

I had hoped that angry, and dare I say it, affluent and well connected parents would start to apply pressure, and that this would benefit poorer less fortunate students as well.

155274 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1072 of 2191 🔗

But will he vote against the extension of the coronavirus act?

155191 Hoppy Uniatz, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 8, #1073 of 2191 🔗

Not up to Annie’s standard, but here goes.

Scene . London, Trafalgar Square. The inside of a Police Territorial Response van. We see the Police donning helmets, hi-viz jackets, etc. They appear nervous, but determined to appear resolute.

Sergeant: When the foeman bares his face
Police (chorus): Tarantara, tarantara
Sergeant: And invades your pers’nal space
Police: Tarantara
Sergeant: When the sligh’est sneeze or cough
Police: Tarantara, tarantara
Sergeant: Is h’enough to see you off
Police: Tarantara
Sergeant: When the nasal swab confirms
Police: Tarantara, tarantara
Sergeant: That he’s full of nasty germs
Police: Tarantara
Sergeant: There is nothing quells your fear
Like a set of riot gear
Police: Tarantara, tarantara, tarantara

Cressida Dick: Go, ye heroes, go to glory
Go out and set off a furore
That will be the mainstream story
For the media cannot lie!
Go ye forth and show your mettle
Wipe your truncheons down with Dettol
Then go forth, go forth and kettle
Go to immortality!

Sergeant: Though to us it’s evident
These attentions are well meant
Such expressions don’t appear
Calculated men to cheer
Who are going to meet their fate
For they can’t yet vaccinate
Still, to us it’s evident
We’re the 0.1%
Police: Evident
Sergeant: 1%

Tutti: When the foeman, etc

Public (to Whitty, Vallance, etc): Yes, but you don’t go.

155379 ▶▶ annie, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, #1074 of 2191 🔗


155231 Victoria, 6, #1076 of 2191 🔗

Yeah just got an Ocado delivery slot – order done!

155244 The Spingler, replying to The Spingler, 5, #1077 of 2191 🔗

Just had a conversation with someone I know and see maybe once a month. He told me that his wife, who is retired, has signed them both up to take part in the ONS/PHE coronavirus survey. This involves them both getting tested every week. Apparently people will come to their house to do the weekly test – he wasn’t sure if this would be a blood test or a swab. Rather stunned I asked what he was going to do if he tested positive every week (perfectly possible). You could repeatedly be asked to self isolate for 14 days. His wife might be retired but he isn’t – he’s self employed. I could see the cogs starting to turn and him start to realise that whilst they volunteered because they were trying to be helpful, it might well end up with him unable to earn any money for extended periods.

Anyone else heard of this new weekly test scheme/survey? My friend thought it was something to do with laying the foundations of the Operation Moonshot nonsense.

155279 ▶▶ stewart, replying to The Spingler, 5, #1078 of 2191 🔗

To be really honest, I struggle to have sympathy for people like that. I would be able to if their stupidity affected only them. But the problem is that it affects all of us.

155282 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to The Spingler, #1079 of 2191 🔗

it was something to do with laying the foundations of the Operation Moonshot nonsense. ‘ – it is…

155284 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to The Spingler, 2, #1080 of 2191 🔗

They’re spending vast sums of our money in order to create statistics that they can spin against us.

155245 petgor, replying to petgor, 5, #1081 of 2191 🔗

This may well happen with Covid:


155258 ▶▶ stewart, replying to petgor, 1, #1082 of 2191 🔗

If everyone in the country could be compelled to watch that 3 minute clip right now, it would probably do more to end this craziness than anything else I can think of.

155266 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to petgor, 6, #1083 of 2191 🔗

That was back then, when CH4 weren’t totally compromised. When John Snow hadn’t sold his sould to the devil and fatty Khrishnan Guru-Murthy was still a baby, untainted by the greed and corruption of an utterly morally bereft corporate dis-information machine.

We won’t see this again. The Bastards

If you are in the Channel Four news team, Cathy, Khrishnan, John, Matt, Jackie or Alex and you are reading this.


155270 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to petgor, 1, #1084 of 2191 🔗

A brilliant find in the archive. As said above by Stewart, this should be compulsory viewing. Will governments NEVER learn!

155275 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to petgor, #1085 of 2191 🔗

Yep. And not to mention that there was also the Casedemic in the US too.

155356 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to petgor, #1086 of 2191 🔗

GlaxoSmithKline who would have thought it?

155248 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 16, #1087 of 2191 🔗

A good comment in The Telegraph:

Douglas Maxwell
28 Sep 2020 1:35PM

see it , say it , sort it
hands , masks , distance [hands, face, space]
ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuehrer [one nation, one empire, one leader]

These dictatorial types seem to have an obsession with the number three.

155251 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1088 of 2191 🔗

It’s the NLP triad.

155350 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to stefarm, #1090 of 2191 🔗

Don’t like the look fo this from the Times – note the bit about the nation not being ready… more psycho-tactics: https://twitter.com/Xx_Rachie/status/1310551029327503360

155337 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Tenchy, #1091 of 2191 🔗

Alle guten dinge sind drei. (All good things come in threes)

I knew my high school german would be useful one day.

155342 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1092 of 2191 🔗

Liberté, égalité, fraternité.

There are some good ones. Unfortunate that Macron’s forgotten what this means.

155257 Caramel, replying to Caramel, 8, #1093 of 2191 🔗

YouknowwhichPremier of which state in Australia.

  • “I know [masks] are not pleasant to wear. If you are like you or I who wear glasses, it is challenging. Really? I mean … like … compared to everyone being locked in their homes and people needing machines to breathe?’

Oh stop it. That strawman argument about ventilators has been over for months. Change your tune.

  • “That’s kind of … that’s an esoteric debate, isn’t it?” the Premier cut in.

We’re smarter than you and have done our research.

  • “That isn’t really like … Maybe there will be a time when we have the luxury of having those sorts of debates … You wear a mask because it’s of some benefit. How much benefit? Always difficult to – as I’ve said to break down all the things we’ve done and have an absolute percentage benefit that’s attributed to each one.

That debate should be happening now you f wit.

  • “I think they play an important part. There will come a time when they’re not needed. When that time comes, then people won’t have to wear them.

You think? You forced us to wear masks everywhere and got the police to brutally enforce it and you THINK that it might do something?

I’ve got a lot to say about this man

155341 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Caramel, 3, #1094 of 2191 🔗

People are only locked in their homes because he forced them to…

155280 Marius, 7, #1095 of 2191 🔗

Some anecdotal depressing news. A relative who works for the local council in a northern provincial town has been told that she and all her colleagues are being redirected to being effectively COVID Marshalls. In her case, checking businesses are compliant. This will be happening all over the nation, people taken off their regular jobs in order to become state snoopers.

155283 Basics, replying to Basics, 13, #1096 of 2191 🔗

From law or fiction please share widely.

No time for fence sitting reflection on what is starkly obvious. Imprisonment in student halls this weekend is illegal. It is not permitted under any Coronavirus regulations, (even if such a regulation were considered lawful). 1/4

It is fundamental breach of human rights and criminal. It is fundamental breach of contract. Students may respond by accepting the tearing up of their uni contract, go home and sue the uni for damages. 2/4

They should record who is attempting to imprison them. Names and details, badge numbers, employers and company vehicles. Demand specific legal basis allegedly relied on. Then go home. 3/4

Call emergency lines of criminal law solicitors. Wake them up. Lawyers should be acting now.

This is laworfiction opinion not being present but just seeing reports, but will any lawyer out there call this out as wrong? This is important.


155287 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 4, #1097 of 2191 🔗

Any hope that this might influence the vote in Parliament?

Seems like the speaker has rejected the Brady amendment – what will the MPs intending to vote for it do now? Any other options open to them?

155362 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Carrie, 3, #1098 of 2191 🔗

They can vote against the whole Bill, but seems as though the opposition will be supporting the Government, so they are not likely to win in that case.

155377 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Carrie, 1, #1099 of 2191 🔗

They will be angry.

155296 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Basics, #1100 of 2191 🔗

That’ll soon be covered in the next SI.

155329 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to DRW, #1101 of 2191 🔗

What will? Don’t follow..

155353 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Carrie, #1102 of 2191 🔗

Student hall imprisonment.

155300 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 6, #1103 of 2191 🔗

I saw the vice of manchester university on Sky News interview earlier. His body language was a very uncomfortable watch. Never been fond of looking at ‘wrong-doers’, especially well off ones wearing suits and ties smiling when their actions are opressing other human lives. His smile never reached his eyes.

155339 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Basics, 5, #1104 of 2191 🔗

Your last sentence says it all “His smile never reached his eyes.”.

Look at those perpertrating this nonsense – no feelings ever reach their eyes, they are dead inside.

155346 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1105 of 2191 🔗

The living dead

155665 ▶▶▶ BJJ, replying to Basics, #1106 of 2191 🔗

They are still waiting for the uniforms. Being made by Boss.

155291 tonyspurs, replying to tonyspurs, 6, #1107 of 2191 🔗

Media bear on it again probably their best video “Paint it Vax ” superb!!

155308 ▶▶ Basics, replying to tonyspurs, #1108 of 2191 🔗

I must stay 6 feet back until the rona goes!

Magic. Thanks tony and bear media.

155320 ▶▶ Basics, replying to tonyspurs, 1, #1109 of 2191 🔗

Muffled mask person noises! Wonderful.

155301 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 15, #1111 of 2191 🔗

Just answering questions for clients with ski holidays booked for next season.

Found this for France.

You will not be required to wear a mask while you are skiing but it is mandatory when:

  • On buses and waiting platforms
  • In queues (e.g. for ski lift and ski rental)
  • While riding the ski lift

How many times are those masks going to be touched, worn around necks etc?

Unsurprisingly, many are asking what their cancellation rights are.

Travel industry is 100% fucked.

155340 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Sarigan, 10, #1112 of 2191 🔗

Travel industry has been 100% fucked.

155487 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Basics, #1113 of 2191 🔗

Correct, certainly not ‘viable’. Wonder if the ski lift mask mandate applies if you are alone on a lift?

155343 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1114 of 2191 🔗

110% fucked.

155464 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1115 of 2191 🔗

In fact the amount it’s been fucked is doubling every 8 days or so.

155489 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Mark, 2, #1116 of 2191 🔗

So are my losses.

155359 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Sarigan, 6, #1117 of 2191 🔗

Yep, that letter from the WEF controlled WTTC to Governments was the industry’s suicide note along with their “new normal” guidelines.

Jamaica following them to the hilt and their whole economy is dead in the water.

MSC (not that I would get on a ship of theirs again if I can help it) is saying masks to be worn while walking round the ships and lots of other nonsense so if they all follow that crap then cruising finished as well.

Much as my wife loves travelling and exploring we have no plans to go anywhere (maybe Tanzania/Zanzibar though, Eastern Europe too cold for us and not enough beaches) unless forced to until there are no masks on flights, no negative tests required before travel and no restrictions now what we can do when we get there.

155421 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Sarigan, 3, #1118 of 2191 🔗

Thats going to be funny when i try to balance on my skis at the lift and the same time trying to reach for the mask. Splatt!

PS: That is ridiculous. Bye bye ski holiday

155430 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to Sarigan, #1119 of 2191 🔗

How many airlines will survive the winter?

155443 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Sarigan, #1120 of 2191 🔗

Booked for Austria 2021 in January 2020. Dont want to go with the muzzle requirement so guess I’m resigned to losing my deposit. I can’t see that I’ll get it back by saying no way would I have booked if I’d known about muzzles.

155447 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1121 of 2191 🔗

I have thought about going away next year but there’s no point if you don’t even know if you can even go anywhere, let alone what off-putting dystopian horrors await if you can.

155332 nocheesegromit, replying to nocheesegromit, 10, #1122 of 2191 🔗

Dolt at the university library door asked if I had a face mask with me despite clearly wearing my sunflower lanyard. I sharply told him I was wearing one and he backed off thank God.

155376 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to nocheesegromit, 5, #1123 of 2191 🔗

The invisible face mask…a variation on the Emperor’s New Clothes! 🙂

155345 Awkward Git, 4, #1124 of 2191 🔗

Got a reply to my e-mails asking how to report treason and who to and this is the reply:

Thank you for your email. I can only advise that anyone wanting to report a crime would need to contact their local police force. “

Will let you know if I get any more answers.

155349 zacaway, replying to zacaway, 9, #1125 of 2191 🔗

Dam it! The Speaker has ruled out the Brady amendment:

Speaker Lindsay Hoyle WON’T allow vote on Tory rebel amendment over
Covid curbs because ‘he doesn’t want to do a John Bercow’ by bending
Commons rules – despite ‘100 MPs’ being ready to humiliate Boris Johnson
by backing it


Opposition has already indicate they will support the Government in passing the Coronavirus Bill / Enabling Act. So I guess that’s it then – the dictatorship continues.

155351 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to zacaway, 3, #1126 of 2191 🔗

There is a call to action on UsforThem to Hoyle’s email addresses/social media. I can post the template here if wanted.

155352 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to zacaway, 2, #1127 of 2191 🔗

fucks sake

155384 ▶▶ RickH, replying to zacaway, 5, #1128 of 2191 🔗

Hoyle is no hero.

Whatever you thought of Bercow, he wasn’t intimidated by the sort of toss-pots now in government.

155399 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, 11, #1129 of 2191 🔗

Hoyle may be doing us a favour in the long run. IMO if you intended to vote in favour of the amendment you ought to vote against the renewal of the act. It’s the only logical, honourable option if you truly believe in parliamentary scrutiny and are not just pretending. Even if you agree with some of the provisions of the act, you still vote against so that the government is forced to formulate laws that gain consensus.

155393 ▶▶ stewart, replying to zacaway, 4, #1130 of 2191 🔗

I guess Labour wants the Tories to own every bit of this crisis.

To think there are people out there who think that politicians care about them

155470 ▶▶▶ R G, replying to stewart, 1, #1131 of 2191 🔗

Starmer is playing a clever game. As soon as Johnson tries to climb out of the hole he’s dug for himself, Starmer will fill it back up and bury him.

155471 ▶▶▶▶ jb12, replying to R G, 2, #1132 of 2191 🔗

Well that’s all right then. Let’s all just wait in our houses and watch every small business fold until that happens.

155394 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to zacaway, 10, #1133 of 2191 🔗

Not necessarily. If there are 50 backbench Tories prepared to put their name to this amendment, they are likely prepared to put their name on an individual letter to the chairman of the 1922, calling for a leadership challenge. Boris is toast either way – David Davis said as much in his comment on today’s Telegraph article (‘you don’t ignore an amendment from the chairman of the 1922’).

155494 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1134 of 2191 🔗

I wish that was true, but I’m really not sure. The Theresa May debacle suggests otherwise?

Trying to get my head around this, and struggling. I’ve been convinced Speaker Hoyle would allow the amendment to be presented.

I agrees that Johnson is toast, but toasting PMs can take a long time. On 9 June 2017 everyone said T. May was toast, but it was another two years before she went.

155618 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1135 of 2191 🔗

The government can thank their lucky stars we aren’t a gun totting country.

155408 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to zacaway, 2, #1136 of 2191 🔗

I think this means it is a straight vote.

Choice is extend the legislation or get rid of it totally.

No 3rd option of keeping it if we can pretend to debate it for the look of things then pass and approve it anyway which is what I understand the “Brady Amendment” is.

Basically a yes/no vote and nail your colours to the mast for all to see.

155456 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1137 of 2191 🔗

I think the amendment was an attempt at a figleaf, though I’m not sure whose shame it would have ended up hiding.

Really, imo, it’s better to have a straight yes/no. There is no plausible defence for any MP voting for this enabling act again, now that we are absolutely, inarguably not facing any kind of emergency that could need unsupervised state action.

Any MP who does not oppose it has abdicated his core function as an MP.

155424 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to zacaway, 1, #1138 of 2191 🔗

Hoyle is absolutely correct not to pervert the Bill before the House for his own ends. I also knew that Labour would not oppose it, and they would not have supported the amendment ether. There is absolutely nothing in it for Labour to share the responsibility for the crisis. They want to criticise the government now for not doing enough, and then next year to criticise them for doing too much.

155462 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Recusant, #1139 of 2191 🔗

You’er probably correct, but I suspect they will end up in the position the “Conservative” Party was over the Iraq crime/blunder – fundamentally complicit and unable as a result to benefit much, politically.

155469 ▶▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to Mark, #1140 of 2191 🔗

The Conservatives voted for the Iraq war didn’t they? That left Cameron unable to criticise it. Starmer doesn’t want to be in that bind so there is no way he wants any votes on it at all, much better for the government to own it. Without votes Labour are in no way complicit, and this time next year will be able to say that they were Lockdown Sceptics all along.

155486 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Recusant, #1141 of 2191 🔗

The Conservatives voted for the Iraq war didn’t they?

All but a couple.

That left Cameron unable to criticise it.

Was IDS at the time, iirc, and Michael Howard for the election (both voted for it), and Cameron who also voted for it ultimately proved himself a “pound shop Blairite” warmonger and bungler over Libya a few years later.

Without votes Labour are in no way complicit”

There have been votes and we are about to have another one, on the CV Act,and Labour has (and will again) voted for panic. They absolutely are every bit as complicit in the coronapanic as the Tories were in the bungling of the Iraq war and occupation.

155569 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Recusant, #1142 of 2191 🔗

I don’t understand the first sentence?

155354 kenadams, 19, #1143 of 2191 🔗

Good news – I wrote to Richard Drax MP to highlight my opposition to lockdown and to support him in resisting the government. He has provided a written (letter not email) response where he makes it clear he disagrees with the lockdown and that “the restrictions are for nothing” . Doubly impressive as he’s not my MP and I admitted that when I wrote to him.

I suggest we all write to him to support him and to provide him with useful ammunition in terms of stats, learned people who disagree with lockdown etc. I’ve already sent the Belgian doctor letter.

155355 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 10, #1144 of 2191 🔗

Hancock strikes again Ipads in care homes – does he not realise people in care home need to meet their loved ones personally?

Ipads are pointless and they won’t be able to use them. If they can they won’t be private because the carer will be there holding the ipad.

There’s nothing much else to look forward to other than average food, pad changing and loud televisions.

11,000 IPads @ Care Homes – Totally Inhumane

155360 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 11, #1145 of 2191 🔗

I really don’t understand the rationale in isolating carehomes, unless the residents themselves choose to do so of course. On average you only have a few months or at best a year or so to live at that stage. Many people have dementia and are suffering extreme distress. Who would want to prolong such an existence for a few extra miserable months at the cost of never seeing family members, friends or other loved ones again? I’m sure some people feel differently but personally I would rather be dead.

155365 ▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to A. Contrarian, 16, #1146 of 2191 🔗

Totally agree. My Mum spent her last 18 months in a care homes with dementia. It was a lovely care home but no one would want to live like that. TBH I’m glad she died last year as it would have been intolerable for her to live through this and me not be able to visit.

As a side note. Dementia is a infinitely scarier prospect than covid, and far more likely.

155372 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to The Spingler, 7, #1147 of 2191 🔗

It is. Oh, it is.
I fear ‘care’ homes a hundred times worse than death.

155386 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to annie, 1, #1148 of 2191 🔗

Which is why I’ve got a Living Will and a DNR card. Having worked in hospital and nursing homes, I’ve seen it all and you’re right.

155406 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to The Spingler, 3, #1149 of 2191 🔗

Yes, for me dementia is definitely one of the worst ways to go – I’d rather die of covid before I got to that stage.

155412 ▶▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to The Spingler, 3, #1150 of 2191 🔗

Dementia is the number one underlying condition in Covid deaths. I have family members with dementia and I love them dearly and wish them to have a long and comfortable last part of their life. But if they were to pass on now from a viral respiratory illness I would not regard it as a tragedy, in fact it would be a natural end and maybe even a release.

155439 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #1151 of 2191 🔗

Totally agree. Both my parents ended their lives in care homes. Maybe some residents who had some quality of life left and maybe years rather than months would prefer to wait it out and should have choice, otherwise surely most of us would prefer to end our days with family and friends around us

155599 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1152 of 2191 🔗

It’s to kill them off. Why do people find it so difficult to understand?

156010 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Bella Donna, #1153 of 2191 🔗

Considering how many people a care home employs and therefor indirectly contributes to the economy, why do they want to empty care homes?
There are not enough elderly to fill those spaces, not that anyone voluntarily would move into one. might as well commit suicide at home and get it over with.

155413 ▶▶ Nic, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #1154 of 2191 🔗

How much of our money has this twat wasted!

155419 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Nic, 2, #1155 of 2191 🔗

How much you got?

155416 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 7, #1156 of 2191 🔗

“Tablets will ‘stop spread of virus by reducing unnecessary visits’, say officials”

Damn those pesky family members, with their unnecessary visits and their non-viable jobs…

155602 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #1157 of 2191 🔗

So visiting our elderly family members are unnecessary visits? . I hope these people who came up with this suggestion drop dead!

156437 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bella Donna, #1158 of 2191 🔗

Or end up in really bad care homes and die by a thousand cuts.

155425 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 3, #1159 of 2191 🔗

Poppycock is obsessed with tech, he must have massive vested interests.

155606 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to DRW, #1160 of 2191 🔗

I wouldn’t be surprised if Cummings is at the bottom of this.

155457 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 3, #1161 of 2191 🔗

Has Wancock considered that many people in care homes will have no idea how to work an iPad to speak to family, especially if they have dementia or similar conditions?

155472 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to nocheesegromit, #1162 of 2191 🔗

sadly it doesn’t matter and he doesn’t care as long as it seems if he is doing something

155596 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 3, #1163 of 2191 🔗

I want to see his head on a spike.

155357 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 19, #1164 of 2191 🔗

To anyone feeling depressed on here – get a dog. In my experience dog people are almost unfailingly normal. Take a dog out for a walk, especially a puppy (as we currently have) and social distancing goes out of the window. One lady even picked her up and gave her a kiss! Another group of elderly ladies, one in a wheelchair and almost certainly “vulnerable”, asked us to come over so she could give her a fuss. Our daily walk is honestly the one half-sane experience of the day!

155371 ▶▶ annie, replying to A. Contrarian, 8, #1165 of 2191 🔗

Both my dig and my horse are far more human than the horrible zombies that pululate in this country.

155455 ▶▶ watashi, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #1166 of 2191 🔗

I have been thinking that this would be a wise thing to do. In addition to the pleasure of walking them, I find stroking a dog very soothing.

155460 ▶▶ Evelyn, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1167 of 2191 🔗

I agree, dogs give you do much love, other dog owners talk to you and it’s great to get out in nature.

155363 Steve, replying to Steve, 25, #1168 of 2191 🔗

Disturbing reports going around that the Track and Trace app will be required to enter supermarkets. Apparently some doctors surgeries are already requiring it for face-to-face appointments.

How can this be legal? Many people don’t have phones capable of running it?

155370 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Steve, 11, #1169 of 2191 🔗

Especially older people. Are they really going to stop Granny from doing her weekly food shop?

155373 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to The Spingler, 8, #1170 of 2191 🔗

Starve Granny!

155620 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to The Spingler, 1, #1171 of 2191 🔗

Would make it obvious that avoidance of dead grannies was not the actual point.

155375 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Steve, #1172 of 2191 🔗

The precursor to Moonshot – they won’t rest until they have setup the infrastructure so they you cannot do anything without approval from the Government (via an app).

Probably why Moonshot will cost £100bn – maybe they will give everyone a smartphone as part of this so there is no excuse not to have one.

155380 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Steve, 11, #1173 of 2191 🔗

Of course that is going to happen. People aren’t taking this threat seriously. The government means to impose health surveillance on the entire population.

Jesting about their incompetence and the obvious early loopholes is just like mocking Nazis for making the odd mistake while building their concentration camps.

155397 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Steve, 4, #1174 of 2191 🔗

I cant load it onto my old flip phone, its not smart enough

155400 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Steve, 4, #1175 of 2191 🔗

Always was the plan.

Whistleblower laid it all out months ago when she passed her track and trace training but I can’t find the link anymore.

India is doing exactly the same big time.

155402 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Steve, 4, #1176 of 2191 🔗

Legislation is not including these premises, but you are free to include your premises in
the system.
Supermarkets would have to offer the option of a non-app based T&T, which I doubt they would come up with a system for keeping my data (made up of course) safe.

155418 ▶▶▶ Steve, replying to Silke David, 6, #1177 of 2191 🔗

Time to get the old Nokia phones out of the back of the cupboards.

155445 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Steve, 10, #1178 of 2191 🔗

… or just switch off yours unless actually needed.

Let’s face it – despite their convenience, we lived without the bleedin’ things for years without the sky falling in.

We didn’t even have a landline until I was 18!

… and look where these ‘advances’ have landed us : a nation of robots bowing to every imposed whim.

155564 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to RickH, 1, #1179 of 2191 🔗

Interesting to see if there is an increase in people wanting landlines again..

155586 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Steve, #1180 of 2191 🔗

I’ve still have my very first mobile phone, if was a Motorola and the size of a small briquette.

155414 ▶▶ bucky99, replying to Steve, 1, #1181 of 2191 🔗

Download, then simply delete afterwards. (Not that you should have to in the first place, mind)

155446 ▶▶ John Galt, replying to Steve, 6, #1182 of 2191 🔗

This has been predicted for a while now. The initial belief was that it was first going to be rolled out in regards to the vaccine – “you can only do X if you’ve received the vaccine” – but they seem to have jumped the gun and started to roll it out regardless.

I mentioned it to someone and their comment was the same as The Spingler’s – “what about old people who don’t use the technology?” – at the moment it’s hard to say what they’ll do, possibly exemption certificates, or perhaps you’ll just have to explain at the door. More likely there won’t be anything legal about it, they’ll just make it a pain not to do it.

Notice how everything they’ve done starts off small scale before they ramp it up. This is to get people used to the concept so they’re not as shocked once it starts properly happening. They’re currently forcing pubs to use these QR codes, then it will slowly trickle towards other areas.

I’d recommend buying a dumb phone – I predict that the prices for them will rise over the coming months.

155473 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to John Galt, #1183 of 2191 🔗

I posted this some months ago. FarmVille was a popular game on FaceBook and it would alert you during the day to water your crops, feed your animals, etc, like a Tamagochi.

A talk I saw about Gamification of apps told of how there was a glitch that took it offline. He mentioned what if the glitch ordered you to take action every 30 minutes. You could interrupt a whole society doing that.

155474 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to John Galt, #1184 of 2191 🔗


155500 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to John Galt, 1, #1185 of 2191 🔗

Or we could forcefully resist by

a. Not patronising anywhere that requires the app
b berating anyone that uses the app or tries to make others use it.

155512 ▶▶▶▶ John Galt, replying to stewart, 2, #1186 of 2191 🔗

Agreed, however, my advice on buying a dumb phone is more for when it becomes so widespread that everywhere you go has it.

155562 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to John Galt, 3, #1187 of 2191 🔗

I read online that an employees of Sainsburys had said that they have been given 6 weeks to implement the QR code thing. But it does not take 6 weeks for all stores to put up a poster with the code… So does that actually mean that within the next 6 weeks the government plan to close all the loopholes so that people have no choice but to download the app? They are buying iPads for care homes – will they give grants to people so they can afford to upgrade their phones?

Apparently 10 million people have downloaded the app so far; so they’ve already got a fair proportion of the population (given that very young kids will not own phones). As they tighten the noose, more people will have no choice – will schools have codes so parents cannot access their premises without scanning in? Seems like some are mandating masks even though there is no law mandating them outside..

Will they force food shops to only allow shopping via the store’s app, rather than via a website, so that you cannot buy food without an app?

155588 ▶▶▶▶ John Galt, replying to Carrie, 1, #1188 of 2191 🔗

If that’s the case then the reason they’re waiting 6 weeks is so that they can portray the infections as bad enough to warrant those measures being taken. 6 weeks is middle of November, so flu season will be in full swing and their mass testing will be well underway.

Like you say, supermarkets could put QR codes up now as any big global corporation will follow along with everything, but they’ve come to the conclusion that the public outrage will be such that it’s not something they should do yet (the people in charge, not the supermarkets). Supermarkets are currently exempt from the QR code thing they’ve brought in, but things change.

Like I said in the post you replied to, they put things out and then slowly let them become more prevalent so we’re already aware of it and more susceptible to it.

How far it goes is anyone’s guess. The predicted end game is that you won’t be able to do anything without your “COVID passport”.

Do you remember where you saw that from the Sainsbury’s employee out of interest?

155592 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to John Galt, 1, #1189 of 2191 🔗

They’re hoping to kill off the elderly so it won’t be necessary for them to have a smart phone.

155598 ▶▶▶▶ John Galt, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #1190 of 2191 🔗

From reading about what they’re doing in cares home, I think you’re right. The fact that they moved at least 30,000 people from hospitals to care homes says it all really.

155643 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bella Donna, #1191 of 2191 🔗

Yes, likely the plan..

155782 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Steve, 1, #1192 of 2191 🔗

How can our law allow this? There must surely be human rights breaches?

155366 Lockdown Truth, 3, #1193 of 2191 🔗

What if you test positive so you get your own test done immediately and it is negative. Do you have to quarantine yourself?

Maybe we should get a testing company to offer a deal to everyone who is positive.

155374 RickH, replying to RickH, 12, #1194 of 2191 🔗

Just for information.

Given Wednesday’s vote, I have just sent the following to my MP.

I have written on several recent occasions regarding the curtailment of civil liberties under cover of a patently exaggerated health ’emergency’. It has been clear for a long time that the SARS-CoV-2 virus poses a threat that in any way requires such a mish-mash of egregious, scientifically illiterate and contradictory measures such as are now inflicted on the public at whim.

That has been a statement of the obvious for some time once the actual evidence is examined….

…. I write this time about the same underlying issues – law and democracy; its checks and balances.

The latest example of the abuse of the Statutory Instrument process has,I note, just occurred with SI 2020 1045, which deals arbitrarily with the imposition of fines for breaching self-isolation.

As always – no scrutiny; no debate. Just another ‘getting away with it’ inching forward of arbitrary undemocratic process.

Without labouring the obvious reasons, I hope that (failing the Brady amendment being tabled – as seems now likely), I trust that you will oppose the following :

(a) The renewal of the Coronovirus Legislation. Parliamentary scrutiny is essential after this trail of abuse by fiat on a false narrative.

(b) The Covert Intelligence Sources (Criminal Conduct) Bill 2019-21. This is indirectly linked, being yet another attempt to duck legitimate scrutiny – this time of various government agencies. (I’m not sure of the legislative timetable).

155378 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to RickH, 3, #1195 of 2191 🔗

Brilliant! I hope you receive a decent reply, and not the usual evasions.

155391 annie, replying to annie, 31, #1196 of 2191 🔗

We keep you safe.

Safe from family.
Safe from neighbourliness.
Safe from solidarity
Safe from hope.
Safe from joy.
Safe from freedom.
Safe from trust.

Safe for dictators.
Safe for snitches.
Safe for bullies.
Safe for sadists.
Safe for evil.

Safe from loving.
Safe from living.
Safe in living death.

All the world’s a grave.

155420 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to annie, #1197 of 2191 🔗

Wonderful. I hope you make a compendium of these pieces for posterity. Bury a hard copy somewhere, because if this goes as far as I expect it to, it may be centuries before another human being with a mind of their own will be able to decipher it.

155438 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to annie, 28, #1198 of 2191 🔗

They Lied

They lied about the origin
They lied about the risk
They lied about the deaths
They lied about the cost

They lied about the stats
They lied about the masks
They lied about the drugs
They lied about the ‘R’

They lied about the NHS
They lied about the lockdown
They lied about the schools
They lied about it all.

155395 Silke David, 6, #1199 of 2191 🔗

I went on YouGov yesterday to try to swing their daily questions. One was: Do you think Theresa May’s current policy…

155396 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 12, #1200 of 2191 🔗

Just sent a last e-mail to various MPs and mInisters before the debate on Wednesday:

“As of this morning it was 428 with all but 4 of these being Statutory Instruments.

In case you are not aware of it, the first piece of “coronavirus” legislation was introduced at 2.30 pm on the 10th February 2020 without Parliamentary oversight or debate (subsequently amended 25th February 2020).

The release of the statement about coronavirus on the 30th January 2020 by the 4 Chief Medical Officers of England, Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland was very prophetic as it was not actually required at that time as the legislation that stated it was needed was the legislation introduced on the 10th February 2020.

This statement released on the 30th January 2020 was instrumental for the introduction of all the following “coronavirus” legislation and from a FOI request answer this is the complete statement by the 4 CMOs:

“We have been working in close collaboration with international colleagues and the World Health Organization to monitor the situation in China and around the world.

In light of the increasing number of cases in China and using existing and widely tested models, the 4 UK Chief Medical Officers consider it prudent for our governments to escalate planning and preparation in case of a more widespread outbreak.

For that reason, we are advising an increase of the UK risk level from low to moderate. This does not mean we think the risk to individuals in the UK has changed at this stage, but that government should plan for all eventualities.

As we have previously said, it is likely there will be individual cases and we are confident in the ability of the NHS in England, Scotland and Wales and HSC in Northern Ireland to manage these in a way that protects the public and provides high quality care.

Chief Medical Officer for England, Professor Chris Whitty

Chief Medical Officer for Wales, Dr Frank Atherton

Chief Medical Officer for Scotland, Dr Catherine Calderwood

Chief Medical Officer for Northern Ireland, Dr Michael McBride”

It is here:


Nothing there that justifies any of the following measures is there?”

155444 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1201 of 2191 🔗

You are an amazing person. Thank you for continuing to chip away. You make my attempts seem utterly pathetic! But as is often said on this forum; little steps….

155714 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to bluemoon, #1202 of 2191 🔗

You never know which drip of water causes the dam to burst so every one counts.

155401 Ewan Duffy, 3, #1203 of 2191 🔗


As the Irish Independent has been firmly in the bed wetting camp all along, this is a positive from them. They haven’t stated the logical conclusion (children aren’t getting affected by COVID unless they are immuno compromised) but they are only a few steps away from it.

155422 Seamonster, replying to Seamonster, 45, #1204 of 2191 🔗

Amazing. Went into a fullers pub, just want to have a pint in the garden. The goon on the door tried to make me download the nhs app…refused obviously. “They are gonna get everyone soon mate, u better get used to it”. Errr no! Then he said you gonna have to drink at home, my reply was “then you are gonna go bust and you won’t have a job!” What don’t these clowns understand.

155433 ▶▶ Steve, replying to Seamonster, 21, #1205 of 2191 🔗

I haven’t been to the pub since the new mask edict came in, and this enforced app track and trace means it’s even less likely I will go.

It’s a shame as it’s been almost normal the few times I went before that.

They really are sucking the joy out of living.

155434 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Steve, 14, #1206 of 2191 🔗

Me too -not returning until the muzzles go.

155448 ▶▶▶▶ Steve, replying to arfurmo, 23, #1207 of 2191 🔗

I haven’t set foot in a shop since masks became mandatory. I did go into a petrol station maskless once, but now I’ll only go where I can pay at the pump.

I have to get my car to the dealer for its service in a couple of weeks. Last time I got challenged for not wearing a mask when collecting it. This time I’ll phone ahead and say I will not be entering their premises with a mask on so they will have to meet me outside to give me the paperwork. I can pay over the phone for the service.

I haven’t worn a mask once, and I fully intend to not wear one at all if possible.

155461 ▶▶▶▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Steve, 14, #1208 of 2191 🔗

There is no need to wear one in any circumstance.

155576 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to nottingham69, 9, #1209 of 2191 🔗

Yeap…I went see my tailor in Mayfair a couple of weeks ago .Asked him if I need to wear mask. Not unless you would like to sir was his answer.. That is why he will always have me as a customer. BTW.

155550 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to arfurmo, 2, #1210 of 2191 🔗


155465 ▶▶▶ Jules, replying to Steve, 13, #1211 of 2191 🔗

I will only go to “essential” shops to buy food and toiletries. Will not play their stupid games (shops and pubs/restaurants). Hopefully enough will go bust and the true consequences of this madness will really start to hit home.

155442 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Seamonster, 13, #1212 of 2191 🔗

If a barman or waitress downloads the app surely they will be self isolating forever as they will be swept up with all the other infected people or is the virus/app so intelligent to know the person is a barman/waitress

155451 ▶▶▶ Seamonster, replying to stefarm, 8, #1213 of 2191 🔗

We all know how clever this virus is, it can tell the time and count how many people there are in the room.

155538 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to stefarm, #1214 of 2191 🔗

A very good point – a good question for any sensible journalist to ask MPs…

155468 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to Seamonster, 4, #1215 of 2191 🔗

What a frickin joke! Only support businesses that don’t force that crap on you…if you can find them

155551 ▶▶▶ Seamonster, replying to Eddie, 1, #1216 of 2191 🔗

Agreed. It’s the only way we can force the issue.

155537 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Seamonster, #1217 of 2191 🔗

Wonder if he had been told that officially?

155544 ▶▶▶ Seamonster, replying to Carrie, 1, #1218 of 2191 🔗

Looked official to me. Just gonna short some fullers shares. They Shld be at zero if this is the case.

155848 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Seamonster, 3, #1219 of 2191 🔗

Refusing to spend money is a very simple and very effective form of protest. If enough people do it the whole corona shitshow comes to an end very quickly.

155450 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 9, #1220 of 2191 🔗

A clear demonstration showing how the lockdown saved no lives in Britain, using Ferguson’s predictions for deaths in Britain and Sweden and what actually happened in both countries.

If you take Ferguson’s prediction for no lockdown Sweden with the official death rate it was 12 times lower.

SWEDEN Prediction 70,000 official deaths 5,880

Divide Ferguson’s prediction for the UK with no lockdown,

UK 500,000 by 12 you reach a figure of 41,666.

Currently the official figure for the UK is 41,988


Andrew Neil: “Boris Johnson panicked – hard to say Sweden was wrong” (and what it means for the UK)

Please share – send to you MP, whatever

155463 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #1221 of 2191 🔗

Didn’t you get the memo? Sweden did lock down after all. Unless their death rate shoots up in winter in which case it’s because they didn’t lock down.

Great stat by the way.

155533 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #1222 of 2191 🔗

Please can someone send this to Julia Hartley-Brewer? She would likely take up this point with anyone from the government that she interviews..

Also to Simon Dolan since it is essential for his case, with the case being all about proportionality of the response to the supposed threat to the population..

Please tweet widely!

155546 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #1223 of 2191 🔗

Ferguson’s prediction for the UK with no lockdown

A Reasonable Worst Case is not a prediction. And it wasn’t the RWC for “no lockdown”, it was for “do nothing”. Sweden did a lot of stuff, just not a lockdown.

155453 Jules, replying to Jules, 7, #1224 of 2191 🔗

Total social lockdown being considered by “Ministers”. Closer and closer to a slave state as work becomes the only permissible reason for leaving home. Wales Yorkshire, North East, Midlands, Scotland (not Glasgow, natch), universities all locked down already. Deaths with virus present? 17 (27/09/20) Wankers.

155483 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Jules, 9, #1225 of 2191 🔗

At least they are being completely transparent now. The object is plainly to crush all social interaction out of existence.

155454 arfurmo, 4, #1226 of 2191 🔗

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8781207/England-records-10-Covid-19-deaths-preliminary-count-UKs-fatality-toll-nears-42-000.html .” Britain today recorded 10 more coronavirus deaths in the preliminary count, with all of the fatalities occurring in England.Yesterday, the virus claimed 17 more lives, down from 34 on Saturday”. Yet again they could all have fallen down the stairs . Will we ever get any “of” figures?

155458 theanalyst, replying to theanalyst, 2, #1227 of 2191 🔗

Its interesting to see all the universities where ‘on-site’ or ‘rapid response’ testing centres have suddenly sprung up are showing as extremely localised dark blue locations on the ‘ Cases by local area in England’ map. (Exeter, Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds etc). Quite a pretty map graphics wise, but you’d have thought these students would have more sense than to go and get themselves tested, especially seeing what is happening elsewhere.
see the map here – https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/cases

Those dark blues locations will only become more common as more testing centres are opened and more false positive cases are generated.(Some might be genuine, but not many I suspect) Article below says they plan to open up a new testing site in Reading University very soon…so lets see what happens there. Government is apparently planning for 150 sites by end of October and 400 by end of January. Can’t see how the cases which the testing generates will lead to hospital admissions though.

155530 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to theanalyst, 1, #1228 of 2191 🔗

400 sites by the end of January – they clearly have a long-term plan for operation moonshot.. Somehow or other they obviously plan to keep this going, till everyone has been tested at least once and they have a complete DNA database of the whole population..

155597 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to theanalyst, #1229 of 2191 🔗

… but you’d have thought these students would have more sense than to …

Heh heh, good one. 🙂

155466 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, #1230 of 2191 🔗

Latest from project terrorise:

Government ‘considering near-total lockdown’ for the North East and other parts of UK
However, there’s a poll you can take – with room for comment.
Fill your boots!


155476 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1231 of 2191 🔗

Too many leading questions in that for my liking. ‘Do you think the restrictions go far enough?’ – ‘no’ feeds into the hysteria, but ‘yes’ presumes I am happy with the restrictions which of course I am not.

155504 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to nocheesegromit, 1, #1232 of 2191 🔗

I agree, and I’m too angry to be coherent in the remarks section.

155480 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1233 of 2191 🔗

Done and a right shit stirring comment – not that I expect them to take any notice of it but a big aft zero for the Government.

155495 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Cheezilla, #1234 of 2191 🔗

Done. Loads of leading questions. I put in some caustic remarks about the government.

155685 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Cheezilla, #1235 of 2191 🔗

answered every question as No and added a comment about leading questions and no rejection options and accused them of working for the government propaganda dept.
I am sure it will be appreciated by the 16 year old on work experience.
Unless it is the Local Democracy reporters (BBC embedded staff) that have written this . There are 3 of them at The Chronicle .
Warning. Local Papers are biased

155467 RickH, replying to RickH, 6, #1236 of 2191 🔗

Well – it’s a week now since the Vaxx Money Twins (Whitty and Vallance) put forward their ‘exponential growth’ model.

How time flies
when you’re telling porky pies
with pound signs in your eyes!

Now for reality. Have a look at the curve for any of the real indicators.

What is striking is that the current (expected) rise mirrors not the left-hand side of the April gompertz curve, which was briefly ‘exponential’. in actuality it reflects a mirror image of the June-July gently falling curve, with absolutely no rationale to suggest that it will continue to the heights of April.

155496 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to RickH, 1, #1237 of 2191 🔗

Why aren’t the MSM plotting this graph every day? It would be so easy to do.

155513 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #1238 of 2191 🔗

… and they don’t have to do it. It’s already done by others, FFS.

… but you know the answer as well as I do .

155531 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to RickH, #1239 of 2191 🔗

I have no doubt it did its job which was surely to terrify those who were already partially of fully brainwashed and think that 7% have already died.

155478 Nick Rose, 8, #1240 of 2191 🔗

So, here I am, stuck in China with two small children, wanting to bring them back to the UK and make them safe. However, I’m watching what’s going on in the UK, and now actively looking for work in a 3rd country, because the UK is starting to look more Communist than China.


155488 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 15, #1241 of 2191 🔗

My attempt at a poem:-

It gets worse every day.
Fucked if I know what to do.

155502 ▶▶ Old Bill, replying to Achilles, 2, #1242 of 2191 🔗

Wow! Powerful stuff man (or woman). I expect Simon Armitage is down the job centre right now.

155507 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Achilles, 1, #1243 of 2191 🔗

I got as far as :

“Fucked …”

Then thought ‘Says it all’.

155516 ▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to Achilles, 2, #1244 of 2191 🔗

ive got tears reading that heartfelt ode ….

155554 ▶▶ annie, replying to Achilles, 3, #1245 of 2191 🔗

Indeed it does.
I feel just like you.

155589 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to annie, #1246 of 2191 🔗

A chink of light;
It’s no worse than flu!

155922 ▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Achilles, #1247 of 2191 🔗

Gonna print that and put it on my wall.

Christ! We need some light relief, don’t we?

155491 Tom Blackburn, 3, #1248 of 2191 🔗

The scenes in Liverpool and Manchester at the weekend looked ace!

155493 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 11, #1249 of 2191 🔗

I am off to get drunk and swear at swans.

155522 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Two-Six, 2, #1250 of 2191 🔗

And spread asymptomatic Ebola

155529 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Two-Six, 3, #1251 of 2191 🔗

Her Maj will not like this one bit.

155580 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Two-Six, 3, #1252 of 2191 🔗

Be careful:they swear back and know some really bad words.

155498 Leemc23, replying to Leemc23, 17, #1253 of 2191 🔗

From my daughter’s primary school: “From Monday, school staff on the gates will be wearing visors (as some have been already). We are kindly asking that all parents help protect our staff and community by also wearing face coverings when on the school site– unless exempt from doing so”

Seriously fucked off. Passing through an outdoor space to hand over my daughter to these clowns requires me to cover my face. Absolute nonsense.

155509 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Leemc23, 7, #1254 of 2191 🔗

Can you point out to them that the law does NOT require face coverings outside?

155514 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Leemc23, 5, #1255 of 2191 🔗

Total nonsense. Why are we being constantly being asked to make THEM FEEL SAFE. When was that ever my job. I intend no harm. Now do one.

155563 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 4, #1256 of 2191 🔗

It’s the NHS that are doing harm by not delivering the service we expect. People are dying because they are being ignored!

155517 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Leemc23, #1257 of 2191 🔗

Just promise as a compromise not to spit in the staff’s faces.
On second thoughts, think that rather than say it.

155525 ▶▶ Adamb, replying to Leemc23, #1258 of 2191 🔗

Same at ours from today

155532 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Leemc23, 2, #1259 of 2191 🔗

Ignore and claim exemption

155567 ▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to nocheesegromit, 7, #1260 of 2191 🔗

I actually am exempt and won’t be wearing a mask. However, having already been at the receiving end of idiots demanding mask compliance this is just another situation that causes me stress and anxiety. Can’t even drop a child at school now without a visual reminder of this tosh.

155536 ▶▶ Ed Phillips, replying to Leemc23, 8, #1261 of 2191 🔗

Our kids’ headmistress wrote that some parents are feeling anxious about the number of parents gathering out side the school and that people may wear masks if they feel like it. She’s doing a great job keeping the school experience as normal as possible.

My wife read the letter and said: “If people are that bothered there’s plenty of space at pick up time to be apart from people. Why can’t they take responsibility for themselves rather than trying to force things onto us???”

155541 ▶▶ court, replying to Leemc23, 2, #1262 of 2191 🔗

Just like all school diktats, just ignore.

155547 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Leemc23, 2, #1263 of 2191 🔗

Would the visors not channel exhaled air downward towards the children who Devi told us were protected by their shorter stature?

155571 ▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Charlie Blue, #1264 of 2191 🔗

Good point.

155565 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Leemc23, 7, #1265 of 2191 🔗

Same at my daughters school. Guess what? I don’t do it so they can go and fuck themselves. I get a lot of dirty looks but most parents know about my military background so that is all I get. One of the other dads is a sceptic but he wears it because of his wife (he told me so).Sad state of affairs.

155720 ▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Leemc23, #1266 of 2191 🔗

You could try just refusing to do it and see what happens? Maybe even discuss a mass disobedience campaign with other likeminded parents so you’re not alone?
It’s also probably highly illegal so you could threaten them with court action if they so much as lay a finger on you or your child.

156154 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to NonCompliant, #1267 of 2191 🔗

Funny, isn’t it, walked though group of well to do parents picking up boys (12-15?) from rugby practice on school playing fields around 6.15 p.m., animated chat, hugs etc – not a single mask!

155499 RickH, replying to RickH, 6, #1268 of 2191 🔗

Just wondering if there is a way of using the Remembrance poppies to emphasize the pathetic contrast of real sacrifice with current national knicker wetting.

No particular ideas in mind – and, although I’ve donated (my mother’s family were supported by the British Legion), I haven’t worn a poppy for some time, because it’s been so demeaned by the ritualistic/virtue-signalling donning of one a month before Remembrance Day. I know too much from the previous two generations to put up with all that shallow performance art.

Anyone wearing a mask and a poppy is an insult to what was fought for.

155506 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to RickH, 4, #1269 of 2191 🔗

Agreed. I said at the weekend that the London rallies need to become unashamedly populist and tap into preexisting symbols of freedom and unity. I’d like Piers Corbyn to belt out Rule Britannia but think that’s unlikely.

England NEVER shall be slaves.

155508 ▶▶ DRW, replying to RickH, 3, #1270 of 2191 🔗

The irony will be lost on the twats soon to be showing off their poppy muzzles.

155526 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to DRW, 1, #1271 of 2191 🔗

Double virtue signalling.

155501 Silke David, 7, #1272 of 2191 🔗

Out for my daily walk, saw a woman in an Anders Tegnell T-shirt.
Of course I complimented her on it, but sadly it did not lead to a further talk as she had just picked up her child from school.

155503 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 9, #1273 of 2191 🔗

Just a bit of a heads up to anyone who is uploading photos and pictures on here.

I have noticed that in some of the photos and pictures that are uploaded on here that they contain personal data about the person who has uploaded them, and as virtually everyone is using a pseudonym for their account name some of these files give away your real name and other information such as the GPS location that the photo was taken, what it was taken with, etc.

It is probably wise before uploading the file to check it on a site that analyses EXIF data to make sure that the file contains no personal data, such as the following site which will examine the metadata of the file:


155524 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to JohnB, 2, #1274 of 2191 🔗

Yes, a pseudonym would’ve been the smart move 🙃

155637 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to JohnB, #1275 of 2191 🔗

Great advice thanks. Yes remove all your personal data from photos (as well as links that you publish – to delete all information after the ?)

155655 ▶▶ anon, replying to JohnB, #1276 of 2191 🔗

good advice

there are apps that remove exif data if you are on a (not that) smart device too

155715 ▶▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to anon, #1277 of 2191 🔗

there are plenty of exif viewers and editors available online.

155713 ▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to JohnB, 1, #1278 of 2191 🔗

I’m pretty sure when it comes down to it they’ll just use legislation to pull all our emails from the user database, if they haven’t already !
If the sunset clause isn’t invoked I think it would be wise for everyone to sort themselves out with a safe VPN and register on here again using a Proton Mail account which is free.
I think it’s likely all our cards have already been marked.

155505 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1279 of 2191 🔗

How come there’s nothing in China? Are they lying? If not, perhaps the rest of the world is just a month or two behind them?

155510 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1280 of 2191 🔗

Recent reports suggest they have a different way of counting cases.

155511 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1281 of 2191 🔗

They don’t count asymptomatic results.

155549 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to DRW, 3, #1282 of 2191 🔗

they don’t count asymptomatic deaths and they’ve a better way of determining if someone died ‘of’ old age or ‘with’ old age

155515 Alan P, replying to Alan P, 10, #1283 of 2191 🔗

Just watching Hancock in Parliament. How he can stand there talking absolute shite and pretending he believes it is beyond me!

155520 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Alan P, 6, #1284 of 2191 🔗

If the Coronavirus Act gets renewed my head is going to pop off!

155540 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #1285 of 2191 🔗

I fear that, with the Speaker playing Little Boy Blue’s horn on the Brady amendment, it will go through.

Starmer has got his eyes on getting Johnson the Jobbie’s job rather than doing one.

So – as I’ve said to my MP – it’s up to individual members to refuse to be lemmings majoring in pointlessness.

155534 ▶▶ tonys, replying to Alan P, 6, #1286 of 2191 🔗

The fact that mp’s are sitting there quietly taking it all in is even more worrying. Hancock has bet the farm on a vaccine, he seems quite prepared to destroy our civilisation waiting for it to arrive.

155548 ▶▶▶ Alan P, replying to tonys, 1, #1287 of 2191 🔗

Huh! That’s no silver bullet. We’re truly f***ed if that’s the plan.

155641 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to tonys, 1, #1288 of 2191 🔗

It’s not all about the vaccine; it’s about setting up the covipass and collecting the nation’s DNA..
I suspect there is a long-term agenda to sterilise people (Gates’ eugenics agenda) and it will be particularly targeted at anyone whose DNA is less than ‘perfect’…anyone with a genetic illness like sickle cell, for example..
That CRISPR technology has opened the door to a lot.

155656 ▶▶ anon, replying to Alan P, 1, #1289 of 2191 🔗

have they lynched him yet?

155518 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 6, #1290 of 2191 🔗

A clear demonstration showing how the lockdown saved no lives in Britain, using Ferguson’s predictions for deaths in Britain and Sweden and what actually happened in both countries.
If you take Ferguson’s prediction for no lockdown Sweden with the official death rate it was 12 times lower.
SWEDEN Prediction 70,000 official deaths 5,880

Divide Ferguson’s prediction for the UK with no lockdown,

UK 500,000 by 12 you reach a figure of 41,666.

Currently the official figure for the UK is 41,988


Andrew Neil: “Boris Johnson panicked – hard to say Sweden was wrong” (and what it means for the UK)

Please share – send to your MP, whatever

155572 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #1291 of 2191 🔗

Keep in minf tgese were fergusons (plan/model 9?) ‘predictions’ not to be confused with witty and vallances fantasy graph presentation.

The ferguson figures were his and imperial college’s accurate (to their standard) predictions.

Trying to stress the thoroughness of the scandal.

155582 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Basics, 1, #1292 of 2191 🔗

I’m assuming that’s a reference to Plan 9 from Outer Space. Personally, I think Ed Wood would do a much better job of directing our response to Covid.

155663 ▶▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Cicatriz, #1293 of 2191 🔗

The production of that film was still less disastrous than the Covid response (as was the production of Tommy Wiseau’s ‘classic’ The Room)

155817 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Cicatriz, #1294 of 2191 🔗

Or Bella Lugosi who died halfway through making the film

155603 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #1295 of 2191 🔗

Only last week Imperial College came out saying they did not model Sweden.

155523 Gemma_D, replying to Gemma_D, 7, #1296 of 2191 🔗

This morning I went to a coffee shop and was asked if I had the Track & Trace App. When I said that I hadn’t, I was ‘strongly advised’ to download it, as soon it won’t be possible to go to that or any other café without it.

I noticed though that a lot of places now have the QR code prominently displayed at the entrance. My question is, if I just held my phone up to it and made it look as if I was dutifully scanning the code into the app, would anyone know that I wasn’t?

155557 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Gemma_D, 8, #1297 of 2191 🔗

Absolutely, like a lot of these pointless, stupid and tyrannical measures.
When told to wash or sanitize my hands, I pretend to.
Like Fletch in Porridge said to Godber: “Little victories,Lennie, little victories”

155559 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Gemma_D, 3, #1298 of 2191 🔗

How do they know that you have a phone?

155568 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Victoria, 2, #1299 of 2191 🔗

Yes, and what about people who don’t own or want a smartphone?
Will they be forced to buy and use one?

155570 ▶▶▶ Gemma_D, replying to Victoria, 1, #1300 of 2191 🔗

The clear implication was that they would refuse to serve anyone who didn’t have the App. They took my phone number (or at least a close approximation!) this morning, but she said they were going to stop doing that.

155578 ▶▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Gemma_D, 11, #1301 of 2191 🔗

What these clowns need to realise is that a lot of people – particularly the elderly – don’t have smart phones. As for the rest of us, well I won’t be downloading the app and anywhere that won’t serve me will never get my custom again even after the restrictions are lifted.

155587 ▶▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Gemma_D, 5, #1302 of 2191 🔗

The might change their mind when customers vote with their feet!

155985 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Gemma_D, #1303 of 2191 🔗

They haven’t read the govt guidance then. They are obliged to provide an alternative to the APP. Keep it safe for 21 days and then destroy it.
What is so difficult about having a piece of paper in a sealed envelope, dated, in the safe, put it through the shredder in 21 days and then burn the shreds, in case someone raids their bin and has a fun evening doing a shredder puzzle.

155584 ▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Gemma_D, 2, #1304 of 2191 🔗

Oh, yes, it will be possible, though why anyone would want to is beyond me.

The gov.uk website says:

  • Businesses will need to display the official NHS QR code posters so that customers can ‘check-in’ at different premises using this option as an alternative to providing their contact details once the app is rolled out nationally (from 24 September).

I think the key phrase there is “as an alternative”.

155591 ▶▶▶ Gemma_D, replying to Miss Owl, #1305 of 2191 🔗

That is what I thought, but the clear message was that it would soon be non-negotiable. I’ve seen some comments below that suggests that pubs are starting to do the same?

155605 ▶▶ Steve, replying to Gemma_D, 5, #1306 of 2191 🔗

That’s fine then they won’t get my custom. I’m rapidly reaching the point that I actually hope they go bust. I’m already only buying online since Covid, I just can’t be bothered with the hassle, the only shopping I still do is for food and drink and if I have to go online or just buy stuff at work, then so be it.

155608 ▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Gemma_D, 2, #1307 of 2191 🔗

Buy a Nokia and wave that at them. I picked mine up in April as it was obvious which way the wind was starting to blow.
If they’re not happy with you writing down a fake name and address on a piece of paper just walk away and try another cafe.

155527 Mayo, replying to Mayo, 1, #1308 of 2191 🔗

I haven’t checked out the data and I’m not sure it means a great deal but it could be a useful bit of propaganda. Video is put together by Ivor Cummins using contributions from other Twitter users.


155539 ▶▶ Simon Fry, replying to Mayo, 11, #1309 of 2191 🔗

I live in North Cornwall; the whole summer the town has been rammed with visitors. I suffer from cancer so need to visit my GP on a regular basis; the nurse told me about 6 weeks ago that there had been a couple of families which had shown up as infected with COVID-149 and had been admitted at Treliske hospital in Truro. Apart from that nothing of note. I work in St Austell at a world-famous biome establishment and that has been incredibly busy over the past two months. There are no rooms to rent in Bude for the next 4 weeks.

155556 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Simon Fry, 8, #1310 of 2191 🔗

Tenby was crammed throughout the summer. Net ‘cases’: 1, a local who’d been abroad, we weren’t told where, tested positive, end of.
Doesn’t stop the gibbering from local zombies. How dare people come here and enjoy themselves, while supporting local businesses? What do the zombies care if they all now go bust?

155552 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Mayo, 8, #1311 of 2191 🔗

Yep, some of us down in Devon/Cornwall have been remarking on this for weeks now. I can vouch, it was packed around where I am. Never seen my favourite beach (SE Cornwall) so crowded.

Then again, the virus has never done much down here – doesn’t like the sea air, methinks.

155560 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to TJN, 2, #1312 of 2191 🔗

I think you have missed the in joke. Only Mayo the great is in on it. I understand Mayo the great is making a slight at the level of inderstanding people have sharing information without fully understanding the meaning.

My intuition was wrong yesterday, it turns out liam Gallagher is a ninny, so pethaps I’m wrong about mr mayo. But he is that tedious and self interested from what I know of the chap.

Apologies mr mayo if I do you an unjustice.

156105 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Basics, #1313 of 2191 🔗

Maybe, although in my experience lockdown supporters don’t do humour.

155535 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., #1314 of 2191 🔗

Genuine question (again)
The BBC has been rightly criticised for broadcasting the lies and half truths from the government, now don’t laugh but I very rarely watch the “news?” from the ITV,Channel 4,Channel 5 and Sky; are their reports any different ?

155543 ▶▶ John Galt, replying to Fingerache Philip., 7, #1315 of 2191 🔗

I don’t have a TV licence or watch TV but I can tell you – same nonsense, different channels.

155545 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #1316 of 2191 🔗

ITN and Sky are just as bad from what I’ve seen.

155634 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to DRW, 3, #1317 of 2191 🔗

Peston has been atrocious

155697 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Julian, #1318 of 2191 🔗

Doesn’t surprise me.

155778 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Julian, #1319 of 2191 🔗

The very worst is Fergus Walsh (Bbc), during the first lockdown he toured the deserted streets of a town somewhere actually saying “Death is stalking the streets”
No,you pratt, the streets were deserted because the people were under “house arrest “

155601 ▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1320 of 2191 🔗

Haven’t watched any TV since June but the clips I’ve seen online i’d say they’re all in lockstep with each other. I do think the narrative is coming under increasing fire now thankfully.

155686 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1321 of 2191 🔗

If you check Sky News Australia, it’s very different!

155702 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1322 of 2191 🔗

The difference with the BBC is that they’re the national broadcaster and paying their license fee is enforced through the punishment of fines or imprisonment.

And no, the commercial news outlets aren’t any different in their choice to unquestioningly report verbatim whatever the government says.

155542 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 6, #1323 of 2191 🔗

I suppose we will have to abolish abortions next. 200,000 lives lost per year in the UK – imagine the QALYs!!

I understand the argument about personal choice, freedom and human rights etc – but I think with the covid response we’ve moved a long way past that being an excuse

155555 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to steve_w, 8, #1324 of 2191 🔗

I agree. Its shocking that people get hysterical over sick or elderly dying but don’t bat an eyelid over the number of abortions every year. It’s quite sick actually.

155836 ▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Bella Donna, -2, #1325 of 2191 🔗

I agree. Another point.

Approx number of abortions each year – circa 190,000
Net migration into the UK approx each year – – circa 200,000 and apparently growing.

Hmmm . .

155553 Sue, replying to Sue, 11, #1326 of 2191 🔗

Talk radio with Richard Madeley talking a lot of sense – “ the virus is here to stay and we can’t run away for a couple of weeks and expect it to disappear !”

FB Link here but probably on talkradio website too

Go Richard!!!

155619 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sue, 3, #1327 of 2191 🔗

He was fabulous!
So much common sense, and he was also up-to-date on all the latest figures – impressed 🙂

155558 Ceriain, replying to Ceriain, 12, #1328 of 2191 🔗

Just a little reminder to all those mums in Scotland worried about their children in schools and universities.

Deaths in Scotland:

  • Age: Deaths
  • 0 to 4 0
  • 5 to 14 0
  • 15 to 19 0
  • 20 to 24 0
  • 25 to 44 17
  • 45 to 64 202
  • 65 to 74 399
  • 75 to 84 857
  • 85plus 1037

Yep, not one death under the age of 25.

Got friends in Scotland? Show them this. Hit the download link.

155577 ▶▶ Schrodinger, replying to Ceriain, #1329 of 2191 🔗

Nor indeed are they likely to transmit it to anyone according to SAGE

The UK government Committee Sage reported in their minutes of the 16th July.
“Emerging data from Leicester, and some from the USA, suggest that an increase in incidence in younger adults has not been followed by a similar increase in either children or older adults, as might be expected. It is unclear why this might be the case”

155629 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Schrodinger, #1330 of 2191 🔗

So much appears to be unclear to SAGE despite their wisdom and the unceasing search for knowledge about the virus

Unclear why this is the case = doesn’t fit our narrative so must be an anomaly

155708 ▶▶ Jane in France, replying to Ceriain, 1, #1331 of 2191 🔗

And 255 people under the age of 45 committed suicide in Scotland in 2018. That’s bad enough, but the numbers are likely to be far higher this year.

155721 ▶▶ Jane in France, replying to Ceriain, 4, #1332 of 2191 🔗

The revolting little woman has also seized on the notion of “long covid” to keep people on their toes. “Yes younger people are far less likely to die from this virus than older people,” Sturgeon said, “but the risk of dying is not non-existent.” “There’s literally never a day when I don’t read reports of younger people whose health has been really adversely affected by this virus. They are suffering ‘long Covid’, the fatigue, gastro-problems, heart problems which in some cases last a long, long time.
“Don’t underplay that, because if we give young people the impression that there’s no risk to this virus then I think we’re doing them a disservice.”
In all that nonsense, she said one thing that made sense – “the risk of dying is not non-existent.” In fact it’ll happen to us all. Nicola, hate to break it to you, but you too are going to die some day.

155574 NickR, replying to NickR, 19, #1333 of 2191 🔗

Hospital Admissions, latest data is to 25th Sept.
I’ve plotted admissions v a line that doubles every day since Sept 10th.

155583 ▶▶ EssieSW, replying to NickR, 1, #1334 of 2191 🔗

Brilliant, thank you for putting that together NickR.
I will share far and wide.

155585 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to NickR, 2, #1335 of 2191 🔗

Please send to Talk Radio – they seem to be one of the few stations that are mostly sceptic..

155593 ▶▶ Basics, replying to NickR, #1336 of 2191 🔗

Great work.

155594 ▶▶ DRW, replying to NickR, 2, #1337 of 2191 🔗

“Just give it two weeks!”

155607 ▶▶ BobT, replying to NickR, #1338 of 2191 🔗

I have given up making graphs because the available input data is meaningless.

A Covid hospital admission is counted as any admission for any reason of a person who has had a positive test in the previous 14 days or has a positive test upon admission.

A Covid death is similarly a death of any cause of a person who has tested positive within the preceeding 28 days.

A Covid case is anyone who has received a positive PCR test but until the false positive rate is known / declared this figure is meaningless too.

155612 ▶▶ Happy in the Haze, replying to NickR, 5, #1339 of 2191 🔗

Thanks. I see today’s numbers have just been uploaded to the coronovirus dashboard…
245 admissions versus the “doubled” not-a-prediction-prediction of 736.
That’s just embarrassing for them.
4044 positive ‘cases’ today versus 4368 one week ago when Whitty and Valance said there would be double every 7 days..
They should hang their head in shame. Utter, utter wankers.

155740 ▶▶▶ Henry, replying to Happy in the Haze, #1340 of 2191 🔗

Not embarrassing, this will be a success for everyone doing so well sticking to the rule of 6 and wearing masks. Keep up the good work, we’re not out of the woods yet, another 2 weeks. In fact, you’re all doing such a good job we should do this every respiratory disease season.

155627 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to NickR, #1341 of 2191 🔗

Great graph. Just what we said from the start

155759 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to NickR, #1342 of 2191 🔗

I bet this in line with the typical flu season

155590 Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #1343 of 2191 🔗

Today’s UK Column.

Features an extensive look at Trafalger Square and the deeper policing issues. Comments come from ex police and others to provide a thoughtful discussion of what happened and what trends are likely to come.

Many other Covid topics civered including the university hostage crisis and hiw SIs are getting past parliament in the most obviously treacherous way to circumvent scrutiny.


Watch and share if you value the information they present.

155694 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 1, #1344 of 2191 🔗

Interesting discussion about the 3pm police goons – Eastern European in appearance, mad, bulging eyes. On steroids, amphetamines? Immigrants recruited as special constables/army cadets???

155741 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, 2, #1345 of 2191 🔗

Wasn’t it just. The yellow vests had corroborating east european teams of police were being used to crack skulls in Paris and other cities. No sure this can work in UK being a little seperate from EU kind of. Epellet numbers ought to reveal the provenance of the police.

Corbyn remarked after his arrest in Trafalger Sq the police similar sounding switch, real police switched on the day for thugs.

155878 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, #1346 of 2191 🔗

But not rolled out for our BLM friends

155600 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 9, #1347 of 2191 🔗

From The Telegraph live feed. I really do despair at times! Just look at this unadulterated shite!

‘Letting the virus rip’ would cause too many deaths to bear, says Hancock

Speaking at the Commons debate, Matt Hancock said that the virus has shown “beyond all possible doubt” that the health of one of us begets the health of all.

He continued: “And so the central question about the control of the virus is, without a doubt in my mind – and this is a question I ask myself every day – how do we best keep people safe from this virus whilst protecting liberty and livelihoods and the things that make life worth living?

“And I believe that in reality there is not a simple trade-off… because the exponential growth of the virus means in reality there are only two parts, either to control the virus or let it slip. Because once the virus is growing it accelerates and I am convinced that no matter how effective we protect the vulnerable – and of course protect them we must – letting the virus rip would leave a death toll too big to bear.

“And in reality the only question is how to control the virus and when to put measures in place.”

And when do we stop having to do this?

155614 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Tenchy, 11, #1348 of 2191 🔗

Just look at this unadulterated shite!

I’ve literally just been reading this on the live feed and said exactly this to my colleague.

He’s insane! Completely power crazy!

155616 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tenchy, 9, #1349 of 2191 🔗

He is totally MAD! How much is he being paid to come out with all this rubbish?

155622 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1350 of 2191 🔗

Just listening to “Planet Normal” and Allison Pearson’s interview with Sunetra Gupta. What a voice of reason and sense about this from a top UK scientist. Sunetra Gupta was misquoted about letting the virus rip, but she explains that increasing immunity is the way out of this and discusses how this is possible whilst protecting the vulnerable. Worth a listen (24/9 podcast).


155625 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Tenchy, 9, #1351 of 2191 🔗

His delusion is that he thinks he’s a statesman when in fact he is a chinless dweeb.

155644 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Tenchy, 6, #1352 of 2191 🔗

Letting the virus rip through the community is the briefed phrase. Lisa Nandy was using it verbatim last week as was Imperial college guy and an oxford guy. Think even the ugly boris had use of the phrase at some point too.

This is deliberate repetition of a lie to make it stick. Goebbels did that. Now hancock and nandy. They must be so proud.

155658 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Basics, 3, #1353 of 2191 🔗

What community? I suppose one way of stopping it “ripping” through the community is to just destroy the community (not that it needs stopping of course)..

155699 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Tenchy, 4, #1354 of 2191 🔗

Giesecke observed that from the start: They have absolutely no idea how to exit from all this.

155706 ▶▶ Suitejb, replying to Tenchy, 4, #1355 of 2191 🔗

I so much want someone that he’s spouting this rubbish to to just say ‘FFS just give it a rest Matt!’

155754 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1356 of 2191 🔗

Andrew Neil: “Boris Johnson panicked – hard to say Sweden was wrong” (and what it means for the UK)

If they lifted all the restrictions, continued with the hand-washing and being sensible approach, allow those who feel the most vulnerable to keep their distance if they wish, put those in care homes and the over sixties on a maintenance dose of zinc, hydroxychloroquine, and Vitamin D, and let everyone else go about their lives. Stop panicking. Stop unnecessary testing, and establish a standard for PCR testing against virus culture testing. Stop listing everyone who dies with CV19 as a CV19 death unless it was a real contributory factor.

155604 Old Bill, replying to Old Bill, 8, #1357 of 2191 🔗

As the inventor of the ‘rule of 6’ do you think that BJ might apply it to himself?

In other words if 6 people vote against his coronavirus bill he might resign?

Hmm, I thought not.

I have spent a lifetime decrying America’s gun laws, but now I am no longer so sure.

On a totally different topic, can anybody point me in the direction of a book repository?

155617 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Old Bill, #1358 of 2191 🔗

What’s a book repository?

155624 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Julian, 1, #1359 of 2191 🔗

It’s where the CIA’s conspiracy theory said Oswald was. Bill Hicks did a superb skit on this.

155707 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to JohnB, #1360 of 2191 🔗

Bill “It’s the people who die of nothing that should be worried” Hicks

156125 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Julian, #1361 of 2191 🔗

De pository. The Texas Book De pository. where’s Gracie Knoll today?

155623 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Old Bill, 2, #1362 of 2191 🔗

I have spent a lifetime decrying America’s gun laws …

Thanks a bunch Old Bill.

Now the tyranny is in our faces, some people are actually starting to think. Better late than never.

155742 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Old Bill, 1, #1363 of 2191 🔗

On the topic of guns, I was the same as you, even arguing with my Californian cousin as to why people shouldn’t need them.
Then 2016 happened, and we’ve seen the response from various governments or political parties towards their uppity citizenry voting the wrong way, and I’ve changed my mind.
And judging by the gun and ammo sales in the U.S., so have a lot of other people.

Tim Pool Gets His First Gun! | Louder with Crowder

155965 ▶▶▶ Steve, replying to Lms23, #1364 of 2191 🔗

I also used to think that gun ownership was unnecessary. I’ve changed my mind in recent years and now think that everyone should have the right to own an effective weapon. Unfortunately our govt disarmed the general populace decades ago.

155758 ▶▶ James Bertram, replying to Old Bill, #1365 of 2191 🔗

apparently, just past the grassy knoll

156082 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Old Bill, #1366 of 2191 🔗

Its Book Depo sitory. The Texas Book Depository.:-)

155610 JHuntz, replying to JHuntz, 25, #1367 of 2191 🔗

Just spent a lovely weekend in a lodge up in Perthshire with the family. there was seven of us from three households. Was very hesitant going as figured if caught breaking the rule of six we would be out of pocket. Thankfully, the neighbours next door appeared to have more than 6 as well so no fear of snitches. I also think the site were more than happy to turn a blind eye.

The tragedy though is that we spent the whole weekend within the lodge. Previously we would have went to the pub to watch the football or just for drinks. However, in Scotland we are not allowed music/ pool/ darts or anything that could be defined as fun, therefore we just don’t bother. We might have went our for a walk as a group but we feared that with seven we would open ourselves up for some risk of being caught for our ‘heinous’ crime. It’s incredible that as a family who have intention of breaking laws we have been forced into it just to enjoy September weekend together.

Everywhere you go now the experiences are tainted and if you reject this ‘new normal’ you are made to feel like a criminal.

155635 ▶▶ Basics, replying to JHuntz, 3, #1368 of 2191 🔗

You’d need to be pretty unlucky to have a Brian Hanrahan (?) for a neighbour to count you out and count you all back in again…

155636 ▶▶ David, replying to JHuntz, 3, #1369 of 2191 🔗

Every business turns a blind eye where there is a commercial imperative to do so. Makes you wonder how much some of the High Street is being stiffed to seemingly prefer compliance over custom.

155660 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to David, 5, #1370 of 2191 🔗

I’m not sure that’s true of some of the high street businesses and also in some parts of the hospitality sector. It seems some of them are deliberately trying to make dealing with them as miserable as possible.

155645 ▶▶ DRW, replying to JHuntz, 2, #1371 of 2191 🔗

Sounds like you had as nice a time as you could. All of this really deters going away anywhere.

155621 Basics, replying to Basics, 12, #1372 of 2191 🔗

Masks worn on streets. It occurs to me it is in part down to laziness, anxiety and convenience some are wearing on the street.

My observatiin came as I just so happening to see several seperate couples on the street. Her masked, him not.

Fiddling with caught earings, is it on straight, hair caught, lipstick smudged may all be a consideration in just keeping the wretched thing on.

Odd as my remark may seem I feel an inclination towards that sort of thinking rather than the medical reasons for keeping one attached – where to keep it when used and not attached to your face, few appear to have considered that tiny issue imo.

Also smoking with a mask under your chin in hilarious. I laugh and laugh at that. Stupid is as stupid does.

155631 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Basics, 2, #1373 of 2191 🔗

Remember the smoking gives more protection than the mask does.
So the kabuki award goes to the mask.


155680 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nessimmersion, 1, #1374 of 2191 🔗

Good reminder coat those lungs in tar so rona cannot penetrate through to the lung tissue… but Olly Oxygen can somehow..

156114 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Basics, #1375 of 2191 🔗

Don’t think thats how it works, looking at the research, summat to do with nicotine / nitric acid is the speculation.

Its amusing to watch the screeching from all the special interests who see their special interests/ prejudices threatened with that one.
Interestingly the same countries that found HCQ didn’t work also found no protective effect from smoking – weird that innit.

155626 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 5, #1376 of 2191 🔗

New “cases” 21st September: 4,368
New “cases” 28th September: 4,044

Isn’t this more a flatlining than a doubling?

155648 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #1377 of 2191 🔗

If only we’d worked out Covid’s operating hours back in March, eh?

155678 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1378 of 2191 🔗

Nasty declining numbers looks as though there may be a spanner in the works.

155628 Strange Days, replying to Strange Days, 3, #1379 of 2191 🔗

From Twitter, would be nice to see this get some more publicity. Click on the first link for the graph if you cannot open the tweet.


Richard @RP131
Maybe take with a pinch of salt: 4044 new UK positives today (28-Sep). Below is the chart from 21-Sep briefing with “example scenario” of positives doubling every 7 days. Actuals overlaid in blue. The lighter blue is where the actual was more than the “example” to show to extra.


155639 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Strange Days, #1380 of 2191 🔗

Deleted – double posted the above

155630 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 6, #1381 of 2191 🔗

Todays infections 4044 , yesterday5693, day before 6041 (source https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries ) can’t reconcile the 5770 within
No chance of a headline “infections drop 33% in two days” is there?

155647 ▶▶ MizakeTheMizan, replying to arfurmo, 7, #1382 of 2191 🔗

They were never able to keep the Ponzi scheme going. They knew that, it was just cover to get the extra layer of tyranny pushed through last week.

155649 ▶▶ David, replying to arfurmo, 3, #1383 of 2191 🔗

They’re not infections, but I’m sure you knew that.

155675 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to David, 1, #1384 of 2191 🔗

You are right. In recent days the media are now conflating infections and cases. Imo to further confuse the public. As you know cases and infections are distict from positive PCR tests, likely false positive in and of themselves.

Be on guard for what were being wrongly called case to now wrongly being called infections.

155711 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Basics, 1, #1385 of 2191 🔗

Or even diagnoses now.

155633 Ceriain, replying to Ceriain, 17, #1386 of 2191 🔗

From the Telegraph live feed:

Speaking at her daily coronavirus news conference, Nicola Sturgeon confirmed that cases in Scotland have increased by 222. However, there were no new deaths. This represents 6.9 per cent of people who were tested and takes the total number of cases to 27,798. Of the new cases, 54 were in Lothian, 53 in Greater Glasgow and Clyde, and 37 in Lanarkshire. The remaining 78 were spread across nine other health boards

“I do want to immediately add a note of caution around these figures,” Ms Sturgeon says.”As you will have spotted, 222 is the lowest number of cases we have seen for some time and, to be frank with you, this is a lower number than we would have expected to see today.”It is likely to be a ‘weekend effect’, indeed reported cases on a Monday… are often lower than on other days.”Just to be sure I have asked Public Health Scotland to check there are no other issues that may have impacted on the reporting of the figure.”

Ms Sturgeon adds there are now 122 people in hospital with coronavirus – an increase of 17 from yesterday – and 16 people are in intensive care, which is four more than yesterday.

She sounds disappointed that the figures have gone down. I guess someone at Public Health Scotland is set for a written warning.

155640 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Ceriain, 1, #1387 of 2191 🔗

She has to put a note of caution on any good news. Bad news gets a free pass.

155652 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Ceriain, 2, #1388 of 2191 🔗

The “Weekend effect” is about deaths, I think. Not about “cases”. I’ve not previously seen such an effect on the UK “case” figures. Yes, she is definitely disappointed with the data. Stupid woman!

155653 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Ceriain, 5, #1389 of 2191 🔗

How dare the general public stay healthy. That wasn’t in the plan! Bet she won’t call off the draconian restrictions though.

155669 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 1, #1390 of 2191 🔗

Oh the delight of watching this woman pulpit to the nation daily with ever decreasing numbers. For that I would like the bbc to keep up the sturgeon show for weeks. Hang her out to dry in front of a nonplussed and seriously worked over nation.

155668 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Ceriain, #1391 of 2191 🔗

Vampire. That’s who is disappointed.

Her rhetoric is just awful isn’t it. Her fixed dried style of saying the same crap day in day out with pompous self importance that even she no longer believes.

155687 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Ceriain, 1, #1392 of 2191 🔗

Awful person


Nine drive-through sites – which can each vaccinate up to 500 people a day – will be set up across the city at places like Easter Road stadium, the Scottish Government building at Victoria Quay and Edinburgh Bioquarter in Little France.

155735 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, 3, #1393 of 2191 🔗

Australia flu numbers are really interesting. Vernon Coleman looked into them. The 2020 dcrease in Flu cases matches exactly, exactly, the number of covid.

155966 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to stefarm, #1394 of 2191 🔗

So I guess they need 9 consultants with a fee of 430k to set these up?
(referring to the cost of dismantling Nightingale)

155700 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Ceriain, 1, #1395 of 2191 🔗

Surgeon was probably hoping for supporting evidence for the second wave.

155723 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Lms23, 1, #1396 of 2191 🔗

Not hoping, praying .

155719 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Ceriain, 3, #1397 of 2191 🔗

Nah, as long as her students are locked up and stopped from having fun wee Krankie is happy

155885 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Ceriain, #1398 of 2191 🔗

Figures that go up are accurate, figures that go down have doubt cast on them

155642 Mark, 6, #1399 of 2191 🔗
155646 South West Skeptic, replying to South West Skeptic, 8, #1400 of 2191 🔗

The joys of running your own company!

(Well, at least I still have a company, I guess I can be thankful for that)

Email received today from a young healthy employee:

Sorry to hear you’ve got other problems to deal with, on top of covid, and then the stress of the effects of covid on XXXXXX(my company name). As if that isn’t enough already !

I really didn’t want to hassle you, but I just wanted to check that we will hear from you at some point today, as I haven’t been able to think about anything else since last week.

Our bubble group are due in to the office tomorrow as it stands, and I have spent days stressing about the worsening situation and changed government/medical advice about working from home where possible.

Could you let me know when you get the chance please ?

155659 ▶▶ Basics, replying to South West Skeptic, 4, #1401 of 2191 🔗

Start with a deep breath…

155673 ▶▶▶ South West Skeptic, replying to Basics, 11, #1402 of 2191 🔗

I really wish we were allowed to say, “sure, feel free to get another job then”

155684 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to South West Skeptic, 5, #1403 of 2191 🔗

I know the feeling. Still, mental note, when any redundancies come around …

155795 ▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to South West Skeptic, 2, #1404 of 2191 🔗

I would tell them that,or grow up,or try to use your own brain instead of listening to the BBC,or how old are you ?,or you’ve got to let go of mummy’s apron strings sometime.What a bloody country of self-centred idiots this has become,I am utterly ashamed at the total disappearance of the so-called ‘bulldog spirit’ in the majority of the UK population,these people need their thinking doing for them,they have a need to be told everything to do and they definitely need someone else to wipe their rear ends for them.

155662 ▶▶ Mark, replying to South West Skeptic, 10, #1405 of 2191 🔗

It’s rather surprising these young folk can wipe their own backsides successfully. No wonder liberty is too much effort, responsibility and uncertainty for them to want to maintain it, collectively.

155683 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to South West Skeptic, 6, #1406 of 2191 🔗

Ask him to supply his evidence for the worsening situation.

Then give him these quotes:

Prof Robert Dingwall on social distancing “it was conjured up out of nowhere”

CMO Whitty on controlling the virus “ If you look at the R, and the behaviours, quite a lot of the change that led to the R going below one occurred well before, or to some extent before, the 23rd, when the full lockdown started.”

Ask him to explain.

155696 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #1407 of 2191 🔗

Or get him to explain this one:

From a FOI to the DHSC about tests they are using:

Q : supply the justification that a positive test means the person is suffering from the virus as is a danger to the public and must be isolated.

 A: SARS-CoV-2 RNA means the RNA is present in that sample at that point in time. It does not mean that the patient has the novel coronavirus (COVID-19).

155880 ▶▶ Julian, replying to South West Skeptic, 1, #1408 of 2191 🔗

Gosh, glad not to have received anything like that from any of my team. It’s barely comprehensible. What is this person asking or expecting you to do?

155650 mrchriz, replying to mrchriz, 5, #1409 of 2191 🔗

I never liked my smartphone anyway.
New feature phone being delivered today.

155703 ▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to mrchriz, 5, #1410 of 2191 🔗

You won’t miss the ‘smart’ phone. I rarely leave the house with my replacement Nokia. Totally decoupled now.

155657 Basics, replying to Basics, 24, #1411 of 2191 🔗

Denmark is going normal.


Denmark Heads to Pre-COVID Normality: No Masks or Distancing in Schools, Just Common Sense

155810 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 4, #1412 of 2191 🔗

Norway’s prime minister Erna Solberg said during a television interview last week with state broadcaster NRK that its approach had been over cautious.
“I probably took many of the decisions out of fear. Worst case scenarios became controlling,” Ms Solberg explained.
She assured viewers that strict restrictions were imposed based on the international state of the disease at the time, but said that on reflection perhaps they were misguided. – Yahoo news Australia

155818 ▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Basics, -1, #1413 of 2191 🔗

That’s nonsense. The top pic is from 2009. And Denmark still has a lot of covid rules in place at time of writing: early closing for hospitality venues, masks to be worn in hospitality venues and on public transport and taxis, blah blah. What they have done, however, is remove the requirement for tourists to have a 6-night minimum stay booked and to provide proof of that.

156111 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Miss Owl, #1414 of 2191 🔗

You went a bit early on your debunk cry suey.

Is this picture 2009 ? Ålholm headmaster Soren Vith said getting close to students comes with risk, but he wants the school experience to be as normal as possible. (Lily Martin/CBC)
The picture you shout is 2009 is labelled clearly as a stock image showing normal life.
The blah blah bits in the article clearly show much more is being put back towards ‘normal’ in schools as one example.

Funny you need to decry the idea that Denmark is, despite what you think, removing lockdown elements across it’s society. Why?

156191 ▶▶▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Basics, #1415 of 2191 🔗

Ah, Basics, I so wish it wasn’t so. We have an extended break booked for Copenhagen covering Christmas and New Year (having had to cancel a June visit), so I’m keeping a gimlet eye on it . Denmark’s been taken off the UK travel corridor because of it’s current high levels of ‘infection’. Yes, things had been bouncing along towards ‘normal’ but recently restrictions have again increased, things that would affect visitors: bars/rezzies to close at 10pm, numbers for events back to 50 (and that dependent on space: some our favourite clubs have had to close for good as they just can’t make it work financially). They currently have the same rules as us in hospitality settings, ie masks on when not actually sitting down, and masks now required on public transport and taxis.

You’re welcome to mark me down, and I don’t know the specifics about schools, which is what your linked article mainly focuses on, but Denmark as a whole has most definitely ‘retreated’. It’s a matter of regret for some Danes, especially those who were most scathing of the Swedish approach at the outset of this coronapanic, that, six months on, it looks like Sweden made the better choices.

156209 ▶▶▶▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Miss Owl, #1416 of 2191 🔗

Here’s something from today’s CPH Post: Coronavrus in Denmark: increasingly more infections, restrictions and tests – http://cphpost.dk/?p=118759

155661 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1417 of 2191 🔗

Just mooching the internet.

Coronavirus cases or as we know it positive tests on government dashboard:

28-09-2020 4,044
27-09-2020 5,693
26-09-2020 6,042
25-09-2020 6,874
24-09-2020 6,634

So has the 2nd wave peaked?

Or lots of tests still to be uploaded?

155667 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Awkward Git, #1418 of 2191 🔗

Is that dated by tests recieved or tests reported?

155674 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to DRW, 2, #1419 of 2191 🔗

It says “people tested positive”


155722 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to DRW, 2, #1420 of 2191 🔗

It’s date reported

155774 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to DRW, #1421 of 2191 🔗

Does it matte as long as it’s consistently the same one?

155682 ▶▶ Mayo, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #1422 of 2191 🔗

It’s likely there are still a lot of tests to be processed, but Hospital admissions are also down (Sept 26th). There is probably a bit of a week-end effect but they fell back a bit on Thursday & Friday as well.

155692 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Awkward Git, #1423 of 2191 🔗

Anecdotal evidence is that there is starting to be a bit of an uptick with hospital admissions.

155704 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Lms23, 2, #1424 of 2191 🔗

From the NHS website on hospital admissions:


24 Sept 288
25 Sept 274
26 Sept 245

Nothing for one the weekend

So dropping, not rising on this data.

155737 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1425 of 2191 🔗

It must be a local increase then
I was just told by someone whose wife works in a hospital (Southend, I think) where the admissions had gone up a bit. No numbers given.

155739 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, #1426 of 2191 🔗

Todays admissions 266.
Deaths 13.

155786 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #1427 of 2191 🔗

That means the government’s measures are working.
And if goes up, it means that the measures are not enough,

Those are the only two options. There is literally no other possible explanation. The government can definitely control a microscopic virus that has infected hundreds of millions of people around the world. They can’t balance a budget to save their lives or make the trains work on time, or many other much simpler things. But they are so clever they have hit upon these measures that control the spread of a microscopic virus.

155712 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, #1428 of 2191 🔗

Second wibble if it has.

155738 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, #1429 of 2191 🔗

Don’t they mostly update on Tuesdays? Need to get clear of the weekend to know.

155666 nickbowes, replying to nickbowes, 12, #1430 of 2191 🔗

Good luck Laurence Fox. Both with Five Star in Italy (via was he an actor?) and recently that comedian in Ukraine have, against all odds, won power. I believe that Farage has fought his battles and is too old now to fight this tyranny, but Mr Fox ? who knows.

155671 ▶▶ Mark, replying to nickbowes, 6, #1431 of 2191 🔗

Hear, hear!

155691 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to nickbowes, 3, #1432 of 2191 🔗

Farage has said that someone younger needs to take up the baton, though Farage is still very good at public speaking, campaigning, but is very marmite.

155701 ▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to nickbowes, 3, #1433 of 2191 🔗

Yeah, as much as I like him Farage has too much bagage for this next stage ahead of us. I think he’ll be happy to just sit on the sidelines others are now ready to pick up the torch.

155804 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to nickbowes, #1434 of 2191 🔗

According to Guido Fawkes a Brexit party candidate helped Laurence get his party set up: https://order-order.com/2020/09/28/brexit-party-candidate-helped-set-up-laurence-fox-party/#comments

155676 Silke David, replying to Silke David, 13, #1435 of 2191 🔗

The ONS Monthly report on deaths in England and Wales August 2020 is enlightening reading and several spades worth of digging the grave for the government.
The epidemic is over since May/June and there is no justification for the Corona Act and current restrictions on life for the wider population.
It is easy to red and understand and will give you some arguments.

155724 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Silke David, 3, #1436 of 2191 🔗

Two key points:

  • The leading cause of death in August 2020 was dementia and Alzheimer’s
    disease in England (accounting for 10.9% of all deaths) and ischaemic
    heart disease in Wales (11.0% of all deaths); both leading causes of
    death were the same in July 2020.
  • The coronavirus (COVID-19) did not feature in the top ten leading causes
    of death in August 2020, in England or Wales. In England, COVID-19 was
    the 24th most common cause of death and in Wales it was the 19th most
    common cause of death, for deaths registered in August 2020.

Won’t stop them driving the country into the ground with COVID-fixation though.

155677 Smelly Melly, replying to Smelly Melly, 9, #1437 of 2191 🔗

Now that politicians have been caught operating double standards again, in that Parliament bars could stay open after 10:00 because they are classed as working canteens. But to show solidarity with the plebs this rule has now been changed, however, are politicians and the staff still exempt from the QR track and trace nonsense?

155736 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Smelly Melly, #1438 of 2191 🔗

Well there’s no point putting a QR code at the entrance to the HofC.

155796 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1439 of 2191 🔗

They should have to scan in with QR code to get paid!

155681 Schrodinger, 5, #1440 of 2191 🔗

Not sure if anyone has linked to this good doctor. The Scottish Vernon Coleman?


155695 nocheesegromit, 26, #1441 of 2191 🔗

Yet another Stasi member asking me if I have a face covering in the uni library. Showed my lanyard again but would appreciate being treated like an adult than a child. Reminds me of being in infant school when teachers would make sure we’d washed our hands before we had lunch.

155705 Basics, replying to Basics, 12, #1442 of 2191 🔗

BBC coverage of the Student Histage Crisis is a wall to wall propaganda hit of talking heads spinning their heads off. Talking about students like cattke – organising the lives of students in a way that is truly shocking if you step back and lookat what they are saying.

Also beung pointed out is how digitally savvy students are -as a replacement for in person meetings etc. Won’t somebody please defund the BBC.

155728 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Basics, 7, #1443 of 2191 🔗

Presumably the BBC hasn’t mentioned how all those tech savvy students could have had their online tuition at home without paying a fortune for non-existent face-to-face lectures??

155734 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lms23, 3, #1444 of 2191 🔗

Student accommodation is a massive and very lucrative business.

155749 ▶▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #1445 of 2191 🔗

That is it in its entirety, that and they could not charge full fees for a fully online course. The universities wanted to have the full fees and accommodation rents, but don’t want to deal with the bad publicity they think will follow if their students go around a spread ‘the virus’. The universities are as spineless as they appear on almost every other issue that confronts them.

155745 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Lms23, 4, #1446 of 2191 🔗

You spot the missing link. A free supply of alcohol hand slime to you. In other words no.

Further they had some unpleasant looking talking head on with a claim of being an expert that it was his judgement that students were better of in halls than “festering* at home”.

*festering was his word. This man was talking from what looked to be his home, he looked to have done a lot of festering in it.

155809 ▶▶ FenTyger, replying to Basics, 2, #1447 of 2191 🔗

I think de-funding the BBC is A DIY job to be honest. Not missed it since end of August..

156317 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to FenTyger, #1448 of 2191 🔗

May for me. Definitely an improvement.

155731 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to p02099003, 2, #1450 of 2191 🔗

It’s a good one!

155775 ▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1451 of 2191 🔗

Yep, Dr Kendrick is a jeffing legend and this post is just enhancing that status even further. Read it and weep bedwetters.

155926 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1453 of 2191 🔗

The comments are exactly representative of my idea of the stereotypic DM reader. What a vile lot they are.

A few squeaks of support for what Arcuri is saying but mostly vile trollish criticism.

155725 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1454 of 2191 🔗

Am I missing something? How can you possibly have distanced direct contact?

Positivity rates have increased over time amongst those aged under 35 years who had socially-distanced direct contact with six or more people aged 18 to 69 years, suggesting socially-distanced direct contact in younger age groups is an increasingly important factor in contracting COVID-19.


155729 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1455 of 2191 🔗

Confused the hell out of me.

155911 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1456 of 2191 🔗

Maybe it means the whole idea of social distancing is fucking nonsense. 😉

155730 nocheesegromit, replying to nocheesegromit, 12, #1457 of 2191 🔗

News from Canada:

In his email, Farquharson called the campaign to legislate mask wearing a “shameful farce, a charade, an act of political theatre” that’s more about enforcing “obedience and compliance” than it is about public health.
He also likened children wearing masks to “involuntary self-torture,” calling it “an egregious and unforgivable form of child abuse and physical assault.”


155788 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to nocheesegromit, 1, #1458 of 2191 🔗

Whos is Farquarson? Sounds like a sensible person!

155732 nocheesegromit, replying to nocheesegromit, 2, #1459 of 2191 🔗

Steve Baker has tweeted:
“G overnment Chief Whip @Mark_Spencer
kindly invited a number of us to meet him at 16:30 with Secretary of State @MattHancock
and @CommonsLeader

I’m happy to report it was a cordial and constructive meeting. I hope and expect we will reach a satisfactory agreement”


155751 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to nocheesegromit, 6, #1460 of 2191 🔗

Bollocks. Hancock wants another six months of emergency powers. That much is abundantly clear!

155757 ▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to nocheesegromit, 3, #1461 of 2191 🔗

Obviously really productive meeting ‘I am locking down a,b,c,d,e,f & z & anyone else between.’ So there.

155787 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Keen Cook, 3, #1462 of 2191 🔗

Yes, the fact is that until the act is repealed, words mean nothing – Hancock can do as he (Gates..) likes.

155892 ▶▶ Albie, replying to nocheesegromit, 2, #1463 of 2191 🔗

Doesn’t sound good. Baker sounds subdued. No further info either.

155927 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Albie, 1, #1464 of 2191 🔗

Agree – he talks a good talk, but won’t walk the walk..

155733 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 12, #1465 of 2191 🔗

A ‘scientist deeply embedded in Whitehall’ quoted in The Critic:

You can’t do a pandemic without honesty and trust, but the problem is people don’t trust the government anymore. The Whitty and Vallance press briefing was the ultimate Psy Op. Even really intelligent people have so much cortisol flooding through them that they can’t think rationally. I know people who believed the fantasy graph. Now they’re sold on more lockdown.

Why is it that we here at LS are not flooded with cortisol and scared to death? I just don’t get it. Why are these ‘really intelligent people’ unable to get a sense of proportion? Their lives under lockdown must be really good for them to think it worth clinging on in this state indefinitely.


155743 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Barney McGrew, #1466 of 2191 🔗

It’s about discernment.
Red pill vs blue pill.

Like this. Make sure you actually do it, don’t just watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo

155904 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Cheezilla, #1467 of 2191 🔗

I don’t really understand… When the gorilla walked in, I thought that I was supposed to be distracted and lose count, but then it seems like you’re supposed to have missed the gorilla altogether. I think maybe you’d have to read their book, eh?

156296 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RyanM, #1468 of 2191 🔗

First time I saw this, many many years ago, I was so busy focusing on the white shirts I didn’t see the gorilla.
When I replayed it, I was convinced it was a different video!
I’m not visually very observant though. You obviously are!

155747 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #1469 of 2191 🔗

It’s because they have one-track minds. They are unable to see ‘the bigger picture’, to apply that over-used phrase. It’s a common fault among ultra-specialists. They are, of course, intelligent, but one has the vision of them sitting in a shed at the bottom of the garden surrounded by weird, spark-generating apparatus.

155888 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, #1470 of 2191 🔗

The more educated they are – especially professional academics and research scientists, the more they’re likely to have funnel vision.

155986 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1471 of 2191 🔗

No. Don’t overstate and commit the same issue of bollockspeak that we are subjected to.

155750 ▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Barney McGrew, 10, #1472 of 2191 🔗

I’ve not yet reached retirement age (the goalposts having been moved twice) but getting here as youngest in war interrupted family means I don’t have grandparents (3 dead before I was born), my parents died 38 &28 years ago respectively and 2 much wanted children didn’t make it either (2 did and are functioning productive human beings – I think but I’m probably biased!).
So death for me is part of life and I’m really ok with that.
I think for many of the truly terrified, this hasn’t intruded on their safe comfy warm state supported life.
Maybe being a bit gung-ho is why I’m so bloody angry at the destruction that has been visited on us all.

155766 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #1473 of 2191 🔗

Because they’re not intelligent?
They might be educated, in a particular way, but not intelligent, that’s for sure.

155955 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Barney McGrew, #1474 of 2191 🔗

In my case, I had brain surgery which removed part of my amygdala, which means I have dulled emotional responses but razor sharp logic. I think, I don’t emote (on the rare occasions I do the latter, it is like a volcano exploding so I try not to go there!).

155744 Sue, replying to Sue, 5, #1475 of 2191 🔗

Handcock announces lockdown of households in NE England – the comments are scathing of him … 13 deaths yesterday mentioned in a user comment.

Honestly how long can they keep this charade up for, it’s nonsensical.

Here’s the link and the comments are open to non-subscribers


155755 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Sue, 7, #1476 of 2191 🔗

I do think that it’s come to the point where all keyboard warriors step out onto the streets in each major city/town to tell the government it’s gone too far. All peacefully of course!

155763 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Sue, 1, #1477 of 2191 🔗


155760 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Sue, 19, #1478 of 2191 🔗

Yes, here’s an example comment, which says it all:

Martin Cooper
28 Sep 2020 5:59PM

The hatred I feel is so intense I can’t put it into words

They want us to put on a mask and spend them out of the total economic devastation they’ve so needlessly caused, while continuing the assault on freedom, fun, socialising, grandmas being able to die with their beloved grandchildren around them etc etc etc

And all to save face and avoid culpability for causing so much misery, poverty and death for something they and anyone with 4 brain cells knows was never more than a fairly bad cold.

And the tragedy here?

We will let them ..

155783 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Tenchy, 4, #1479 of 2191 🔗

It’s precisely how I feel and I imagine a good number on this site.
If i could i’d get out of the country now and go to some back of beyond place until it’s over. It’s just constant cranking up the ridiculous rules by Laurel and Hardy – I’d like to think something will happen to make the public snap in unison against these measures – honestly i think the only thing that would stir people out of their comfy armchairs watching the BBC in their slippers with a cup of cocoa is if their pets had to be put down for spreading the virus, and even then they’d probably just say “but what can we do???”
ffs – well pissed off today (can you tell??? 🙂 )

155875 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sue, 1, #1480 of 2191 🔗

You can write to MPs. Not just yours but the ones on the rebel list to support them.

You can also exercise a bit of passive aggressive civil disobedience.

Wear your face, look people in the eye and smile at them to remind them they’re human.

Talk to people. Don’t waste time on the lockdown-lovers but gently ask questions to make people think.

155790 ▶▶ David, replying to Sue, #1481 of 2191 🔗

I thought they already were?

155800 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to David, 1, #1482 of 2191 🔗

It had been illegal for two households to mix if inside or in the garden, but it was only guidance that they should not meet at public venues, including restaurants and pubs.

155798 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sue, 1, #1483 of 2191 🔗

Tightened at the request of the councils – again! What have they got over the councils?

155823 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sue, #1484 of 2191 🔗

What?! From when? How many people does this affect – what is the definition of ‘NE England’?

155765 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #1486 of 2191 🔗

That is brilliant. Thanks for sharing. Well worth a watch. The gloves are off!

155784 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 3, #1487 of 2191 🔗

Yes, how long do you think Witless and Unbalanced can last now?

155855 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #1488 of 2191 🔗

For the answer, see what happened to D Cummings and N Ferguson …..

155923 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, #1489 of 2191 🔗

Ferguson was temporarily ‘sacked’, I thought? Then came back somehow…

156280 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #1490 of 2191 🔗


155781 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #1491 of 2191 🔗

Did he speak before or after Hancock, out of interest?

155748 cloud6, replying to cloud6, 15, #1492 of 2191 🔗

I fell about laughing over this seen in todays Telegraph.

Hopes for nasal spray that gave ’96pc infection cover’ in ferrets’We’ve been amazed with just how effective our treatment has been’
Weekly use of a nasal spray could give 96 per cent protection from coronavirus, new research from Public Health England (PHE) shows….

And I completely lost it at Wetherspoons today, decided to go for a cheap lunch at one of their eateries, well it was like airport security to get in the door and demands to do this, scan this, wear you nappy etc.. (you get the point). As I am a technology freak I did have the NHS T&T app, so an ideal way to try it, the bloke on the door said scan away then disappeared, he came back and said he had to see it, well the app does not allow this, so scan again (Twice, 2 people), now he said my other half has to scan herself in as well, she does not have a phone, so he says do it on yours, that makes 3 scans? (3 people) but only two of us. So I said don’t bother can you erase all data of the three? (2) of us recorded, not possible, I then said in a loud voice about living in a dictatorship and stormed off.

The APP has now been deleted.

155752 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to cloud6, 6, #1493 of 2191 🔗

Wetherspoons are obviously trying to go out of business.

155789 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, #1494 of 2191 🔗

Wasn’t T&T made law for businesses today, with eye-watering fines?

Big companies like Wetherspoons can no longer get away with bits of paper and false names, especially as they already have their ordering app in operation.

155826 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, #1495 of 2191 🔗

Was it? Missed that… explains why Sainsbury’s talked of a time limit for getting it all in place..

155944 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1496 of 2191 🔗

They are still obliged to offer an alternative for people who do not have a phone or the ability to have the app.

155950 ▶▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to Cheezilla, #1497 of 2191 🔗

Yes track and trace is now law but customers are still entitled by law to provide written details and don’t have to use the poxy app

Venues must ask every customer and visitor for the following details (unless they have ‘checked in’ using the NHS COVID-19 app):

the name of the customer or visitor. If there is more than one person, then you can record the name of the ‘lead member’ of the group (of up to 6 people) and the number of people in theat group
a contact phone number for each customer or visitor, or for the lead member of a group of people. If a phone number is not available, you should ask for their email address instead, or if neither are available, then postal address
date of visit, arrival time and, where possible, departure time
the name of the assigned staff member, if a customer or visitor will interact with only one member of staff (for example, a hairdresser). This should be recorded alongside the name of the customer or visitor
Recording both arrival and departure times (or estimated departure times) will help reduce the number of customers or staff needing to be contacted by NHS Test and Trace. We recognise, however, that recording departure times will not always be practicable and this is not required by law.

All designated venues must also keep a record of all staff working on the premises on a given day, the time of their shift, and their contact details. This covers anyone providing a service or activity including volunteers.

No additional data should be collected for this purpose.

In England, you do not have to request details from people who check in with the official NHS QR poster, and venues should not ask them to do both. Venues must not make the specific use of the NHS QR code a precondition of entry (as the individual has the right to choose to provide their contact details if they prefer). Should someone choose to check in with the official NHS QR poster, a venue should check their phone screen to ensure they have successfully checked in

156270 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Hubes, #1498 of 2191 🔗

Well that should get a few off the unemployment figures, as getting that lot will be a full-time job in a busy establishment.

155761 ▶▶ stewart, replying to cloud6, 12, #1499 of 2191 🔗

Why. doesn’t the Chairman of Wetherspoons – Tim Martin – once so committed to the freedom of the British people, grow a pair of balls and simply refuse to jump through all the government hoops.

The share price might initially drop a bit from the concern from investors, but would then jump back up the moment his pubs started getting a swell of visitors supporting him and fed up with government thuggery.

155767 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to cloud6, 10, #1500 of 2191 🔗

The people running some of these pubs and restaurants must be fucking stupid. They were struggling already and this behaviour will just finish them off before Christmas. Good riddance with that kind of behaviour.

155768 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to cloud6, 4, #1501 of 2191 🔗

I have heard a number of places that need this app to get in – what happens if you don’t have a smartphone (or you don’t take your phone with you)? Are you denied access?

155854 ▶▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, #1502 of 2191 🔗