Last updated2020-09-29T08:23:16



156525 Bailie, replying to Bailie, 11, #1 of 1997 🔗


156603 ▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to Bailie, 4, #2 of 1997 🔗

Well done dear boy!
NOW LISTEN to our excellent anti-lockdown, song ridden, up beat podcast:

156854 ▶▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 1, #3 of 1997 🔗

I’m puttin’ it around, honest!

157024 ▶▶▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to James Leary #KBF, #4 of 1997 🔗

Good man! Recording our 1984 comparison episode tonight over a pint!

158167 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, #5 of 1997 🔗

Good podcast ! I liked the young person song, super.

157694 ▶▶ sam, replying to Bailie, 1, #6 of 1997 🔗

please write to your MP now to repeal the Coronavirus ACT
The Coronavirus Act is the biggest expansion of state power in a generation — and could stay in law for years. Emergency powers should carry emergency time limits. That’s why we campaigned for, and won, the right for MPs to vote on the Act every 6 months. The first vote is on Wednesday 30th September.

158232 ▶▶ sam, replying to Bailie, 2, #7 of 1997 🔗

Who will win, Tobias Ellwood or Sir Graham Brady….
Speaking in the House of Commons on Monday night, Tobias Ellwood argued that the mass vaccination scheme is a challenge of the scale and complexity of “the D-day landings and Dunkirk.”
The MP for Bournemouth East told the parliament that a vaccine could be six months away and urged Prime Minister Boris Johnson to use the armed forces to oversee the process of delivering it to the UK population.
MP Tobias Ellwood proposing that military oversees mass-vaccination of Britain, and issuance of VACCINATION CERTIFICATES for international travel. Member of 77th Brigade, the psychological warfare unit which “assists” Cabinet (via Rapid Response Unit) in shaping public discourse. pic.twitter.com/gB3IyM6siG

156526 Bailie, replying to Bailie, 37, #8 of 1997 🔗

Sir Desmond Dwayne was great…worth watching it all.

156538 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bailie, 2, #9 of 1997 🔗

I would like to have seen that but it went straight to the next video (at least it was Dave Cullen, always worth watching).
I’ll have find it myself on YouTube.

156546 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 9, #10 of 1997 🔗

Found it, watched in full.
100k views on one site alone.

156551 ▶▶ DespairSquid, replying to Bailie, 20, #11 of 1997 🔗

I sent him a short thank you email. I suspect he’s had quite a few but I did receive a short acknowledgement which was nice!

His website (including contact details) is https://www.desmondswaynemp.com/sir-desmond-swayne-td-mp-3/ and contains some of his sceptical questions as posts.

Well done that man!

156591 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to DespairSquid, 9, #12 of 1997 🔗

I did the same and received a reply. They all need our support.

156610 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to DespairSquid, 10, #13 of 1997 🔗

I’ve just written as well. If only we had more like him here in Sturgeon land.

156659 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to wendyk, 9, #14 of 1997 🔗

He’s just taken the trouble to send a personal brief acknowledgement.

My MP -an SNP stalwart-never answers my emails.

156703 ▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to wendyk, 3, #15 of 1997 🔗

Yep – mine, once in a blue moon, “answers” but NEVER actually answers!

157053 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to IanE, #16 of 1997 🔗

We must have the same MP!

157604 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnMac, replying to IanE, #17 of 1997 🔗

I know the feeling.

156711 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to wendyk, 11, #18 of 1997 🔗

unfortunately there are two types of MP .. Those that are good constituency MPs and those that dont give a toss about their constituents
unfortunately when it comes to elections most people will vote for plank of wood if it has the right rosette.
I always found a similar thing with local elections. The independents were usually the best for dealing with peoples problems

156872 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to mjr, 4, #19 of 1997 🔗

Mine is a Plank of wood. As a tax payer I resent paying her salary.

156997 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #20 of 1997 🔗

Mine replied to me once just quoting the government. Didn’t even reply to my other emails.

156762 ▶▶▶ HaylingDave, replying to DespairSquid, 2, #21 of 1997 🔗

Nice one, I’ve also sent a message of support, thanks and gratitude!

156772 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to DespairSquid, 6, #22 of 1997 🔗

I sent him an email as well. I’m definitely on the opposite end of the political spectrum from him but he encapsulated almost every thought I’ve had on the subject.

157048 ▶▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to DespairSquid, 2, #23 of 1997 🔗

I’ve just done the same. People need to show support when necessary, and take action to get their voices heard. The more they are heard, the more powerful they are.

156556 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Bailie, 28, #24 of 1997 🔗

A clear demonstration showing how the lockdown saved no lives in Britain,

using Ferguson’s predictions for deaths in Britain and Sweden and what actually happened in both countries.
If you take Ferguson’s prediction for no lockdown Sweden with the official death rate it was 12 times lower.

SWEDEN Prediction 70,000 official deaths 5,880

Divide Neil Ferguson’s (Imperial College London) prediction for the UK with no lockdown,

UK 500,000 by 12 you reach a figure of 41,666.

Currently the official figure for the UK is 41,988


Andrew Neil: “Boris Johnson panicked – hard to say Sweden was wrong” (and what it means for the UK)

Please share – send to your MP, whatever

156559 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 10, #25 of 1997 🔗

Wow, that’s even worse than his X 10 wrong hocus pocus predictions for foot&mouth SARS Swine flu bird flu.
What a hanckock that man is.

156643 ▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to karenovirus, 4, #26 of 1997 🔗

Big pharma made bank after countries bought millions of vaccine doses that were never needed.

156994 ▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to karenovirus, 2, #27 of 1997 🔗

How does he have any credibility, must be the go to for the powerful people who want a con man

156677 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, -14, #28 of 1997 🔗

Neil Ferguson’s (Imperial College London) prediction for the UK with no lockdown,

There’s no such thing. You may be referring to a Reasonable Worst Case estimate — such things are explicitly not predictions — for a “do nothing” scenario. Since something very different from “do nothing”, namely a lockdown (to which many people reading these comments are very much opposed) it can’t be described as a “prediction” in any sense of the word. Of course Sweden did not adopt a “do nothing” scenario either — they did quite a lot.

The prediction made by a different group of researchers, but using a similar model, about Sweden was indeed intended to be a prediction, and it was indeed wrong. I’m not disputing that.

But to compare the two in this way is “amateur science”, to quote the blog above.

156679 ▶▶▶▶ Jakehadlee, replying to Richard Pinch, 14, #29 of 1997 🔗

A Reasonable Worst Case Scenario is explicitly a prediction. It is a prediction of what may happen in a worst case scenario- the clue is in the name.

You may be confusing “prediction” with “prophesy”. No one ever claims a prediction is a guarantee – however the issue is that this prediction (or non-prediction) was the one repeatedly used by pro-lockdown to justify the restrictions put on us.

156729 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Jakehadlee, -6, #30 of 1997 🔗

From a report of the Common Science and Technology Committee

Reasonable worst case scenario
75. The second stage of the [National Risk Assessment] process is assessing risks and their impacts. Risks are assessed using available historical, statistical and scientific data. Where possible, the assessment should take account of probable developments over the next five years.[ 75 ] Impacts are assessed against five main criteria:

  • the numbers of fatalities that are likely to be directly attributable to the emergency;
  • the extent of human illnesses or injury over a period following the onset of an emergency;
  • social disruption;
  • economic damage; and
  • the potential for significant outrage and anxiety to be caused to communities.[ 76 ]

76. The assessment leads to the development of a “reasonable worst case scenario” for every risk. The reasonable worst case scenario is “designed to exclude theoretically possible scenarios which have so little probability of occurring that planning for them would be likely to lead to disproportionate use of resources.”[ 77 ] The Government stated that:

They are not predictions of what will happen but of the worst that might realistically happen, and therefore we would expect most pandemics to be less severe and less widespread than the reasonable worst case. By planning for the reasonable worst case planners are assured that they have a high probability of meeting the demands posed by the hazard should it occur.[ 78 ]

156782 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Richard Pinch, 7, #31 of 1997 🔗

Modellers can indeed provide caveats to their outputs.

But when the worst case is explicitly used not just to lockdown an entire nation, but to then justify it with a pat on the back to government who saved 400,000 lives, what can be done? Because its bare faced manipulation of what was a recognition that black swan events do occur.

They should be pushed quite far down the pecking order of advisors in my book. Instead, we had Ferguson front and centre. Why?

156799 ▶▶▶▶ JohnMac, replying to Richard Pinch, 12, #32 of 1997 🔗

Well, you can call it what you like, but we were absolutely told that half a million would die if we didn’t have a lockdown.

156875 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to JohnMac, 1, #33 of 1997 🔗

… which is the point I’m trying to make, and the thing that concerns me, and why I keep going on about it. Modelling is not the issue. The issue is how the results from models used for a specific purpose — and I hope people would agree, a reasonable one — are misrepresented.

A good rule of thumb is that whenever you read a news story that says “up to X”, that is an over-compressed version of “most likely Y, with a 95% confidence interval from Z to X”. The media go, of course, for the most exciting figure.

A good example of this is Ferguson’s estimate for deaths from vCJD as a result of the BSE epidemic. He said something like a central estimate between 100 and 1000, with a 95% confidence bound from 50 to 150,000. Which of those figures was reported? The largest and most exciting. It’s fair to say that a range of 50 to 150,000 is a numerical way of saying “I don’t know”, of course.

Sadly, I don’t expect the media to do any better, although one could hope.

156954 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Richard Pinch, 7, #34 of 1997 🔗

“A good example of this is Ferguson’s estimate for deaths from vCJD as a result of the BSE epidemic. He said something like a central estimate between 100 and 1000, with a 95% confidence bound from 50 to 150,000.”

Well, he should have just said; ‘I haven’t the slightest idea’ then.
These Imperial modellers know that upper scare estimates are what will get reported. That is why they say them!

157226 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Kevin 2, -1, #35 of 1997 🔗

But he did have an idea: between 100 and 1000 over the next 80 years. The. number has been just under 200 in 20 years, which seems like quite a good fit to me.

157357 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #36 of 1997 🔗

I could have given the same 95% confidence interval, without doing any research at all.

It is meaningless , other than to have the highest possible figure reported.

156964 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Richard Pinch, 4, #37 of 1997 🔗

Modelling is the issue because if incomplete or wrong data is entered then you will get a incorrect outcome modelled.
In this case a false IFR predicted on 6 planes from Wuhan and no allowance given for pre immunity.

157298 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Jonathan Palmer, -1, #38 of 1997 🔗

if incomplete or wrong data is entered then you will get a incorrect outcome modelled

True, of course. But a model allows you to vary the inputs and determine the sensitivity and decide whether you know the input with sufficient certainty to get an output with the desired accuracy (or not). In the famous 500,000 case, the precise numerical figure was less important than the fact that under most reasonable assumptions, the answer was too large for the NHS to cope.

No allowance for pre-existing immunity was the reasonably conservative assumption at the time for a novel virus. Can you point to anything known in February that would have made that obviously incorrect.

157610 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Richard Pinch, 3, #39 of 1997 🔗

An assumption based on an entirely homogenous population with everybody equally susceptible was ridiculous, but served the purpose.

There has never been such a novel pathogen in history.

158054 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Kevin 2, #40 of 1997 🔗

Population-level models have been used sufficiently often over the past hundred years or so to be sure that they are capable of giving qualitative answers which deliver useful policy insights and numerical answers which are good enough for some policy decisions.

158246 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Richard Pinch, #41 of 1997 🔗

“Population-level models have been used sufficiently often over the past hundred years or so to be sure that they are capable of giving qualitative answers which deliver useful policy insights and numerical answers which are good enough for some policy decisions.”

Well, those models have proved woeful in this example. Unless the intent was to be woeful, in which case they were really rather good.

It’s time they had one or two Bayesians on board. Which is beyond them.
Or the Bayesians are operating in the background.
Why is it that about a month ago ‘they’ forecast 120,000 deaths over the winter? Why did they subsequently predict 85,000? Why did all those signatories sign the 120k w.c.s.?
Yes, these simplistic one-dimensional numerical extrapolations are good enough if you actually want particular policy decisions.
And that’s why they always wildly over-estimate.
The true figure (even including ‘death with’) up until the end of Feb will be between 5000 and 15,000.
(Unless there is wholesale marking flu deaths down as Covid, or the flu vaccine causes viral interference.)
Nearer 5000 with a Swedish light touch, nearer 15,000 with the extending of the madness.
All cause mortality will be high this winter, due to the various injurious impacts of lockdowns, past and present.

157973 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #42 of 1997 🔗

Yes, easily. His laughable “model” was examined both by statisticians on this site and elsewhere and the Disgusting Ferguson “model” gave wildly-differing results from the same inputs. In other words, his “model” was crap. He had no right whatsoever to demand or advise a government to carry out an economic wave of destruction on that basis.

158052 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to RichardJames, #43 of 1997 🔗

Well, as I’ve consistently said, I haven’t examined his agent-based model in detail. What I have consistently confined myself to commenting on is the famous 510,000 prediction, as taken by SAGE 11 for their RWC. I agree with that, on the basis of simple SIR population level modelling, as the right answer at that time, given the data available at that time, and given the question under consideration, which was not “Exactly how many people will die” but “Can we cope with the consequences of a do-nothing policy”. So many of the reasonable assumptions for the parameters known at the time came back with the answer “No” that the RWC did what it was supposed to do in planning terms.

156980 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnMac, replying to Richard Pinch, 3, #44 of 1997 🔗

So Imperial didn’t really get anything wrong? It was all the media!


157230 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to JohnMac, -1, #45 of 1997 🔗

I didn’t say that. I said there’s a strong tendency in the media to report only the most dramatic figure they can find.

157575 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnMac, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #46 of 1997 🔗

Yeah, right. Sure.

157606 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Draper233, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #47 of 1997 🔗

I may have imagined it but i’m sure the dramatic figures such as “50,000 cases a day”, “200 deaths a day”, “doubling every 7 days” were used exclusively to the media a few days ago….so why was that the case and what excuses are you going to make for Vallance and Whitty?

157802 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Draper233, #48 of 1997 🔗

Why would you assume I want to “make excuses” for anyone? I’ve been explaining one particular figure which has been assiduously misquoted.

If your had asked me politely, in such neutral terms as “Do you think those figures were valid and explained accurately” I would have given you my views.

157147 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DeepBlueYonder, replying to Richard Pinch, 4, #49 of 1997 🔗

Why was a Reasonable Best Case Scenario never discussed? When we forecast, shouldn’t we “delineate possibilities that extend out from a particular moment or event”? Given the catastrophising mindset of the media, isn’t it inevitable that they would focus on 500,000 deaths – that was very easy to predict.

157239 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to DeepBlueYonder, #50 of 1997 🔗

Unfortunately if you don’t let the media see the full range of figures, then you feed the conspiracy theories.

157577 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnMac, replying to Richard Pinch, #51 of 1997 🔗

If the supposed experts make a royal hash of it, then someone’s going to notice.

157379 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to DeepBlueYonder, #52 of 1997 🔗

Reasonable Best Case Scenario

Great idea! Unfortunately we tend to hear more about the Unreasonable Best Case Scenario …

156907 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Richard Pinch, 6, #53 of 1997 🔗

Your logical argument struggles whenever you describe Ferguson’s effort as ‘reasonable’, Richard. Describing something as such does not make it so.

156941 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to JohnB, -6, #54 of 1997 🔗

“Reasonable”, as in “Reasonable Worst Case” is a judgement. For what it’s worth, I would have given a similar answer based on the data available at that time, using a different and much simpler model.

However, if you think that was not a reasonable estimate for the do-nothing scenario, let me ask you. What “reasonable” estimate would you have given SAGE 11 on 27 February for the Reasonable Worst Case “do-nothing” scenario? More to the point, how would you have gone about determining it? What analytical processes would you have used to turn the data in front of you on that day into a number, or a numerical range, that would have enabled you to contribute to answering the question “What would we need to plan for if we do nothing?”

157930 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ gipsy2222, replying to Richard Pinch, 4, #55 of 1997 🔗

I would have used the data from the cruise ships which made it obvious that Ferguson was using the wrong assumptions from day one. Garbage in, garbage out.

157985 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to gipsy2222, -1, #56 of 1997 🔗

Well, that’s rather the point isn’t it? You would have made a different choice from the conflicting data. Considering that data from Manaus and Guayaquil supports an IFR in the range 0.8-1%, it’s not at all clear that you would have been right.

158434 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Richard Pinch, #57 of 1997 🔗

Thanks for the reply, Richard.

What “reasonable” estimate would you have given SAGE 11 on 27 February for the Reasonable Worst Case “do-nothing” scenario?

I was quite convinced considerably earlier than 27th February that this whole shitshow was a planned coup. And I have more tools than just one hammer, so not everything looks like a nail.

My reasonable estimate would have been a thousand or two, if that, and that Sage should go home and look after the garden.

More to the point, how would you have gone about determining it?

A lifetime of observing, studying, researching, and experiencing the abuse of power in high places. Aided by some specific areas of knowledge, following and interpreting the carefully crafted msm narrative, and a normal degree of common sense. Oh, and a knowledge of how damaging and harmful fear is in every situation.

What analytical processes would you have used to turn the data in front of you on that day into a number, or a numerical range, that would have enabled you to contribute to answering the question “What would we need to plan for if we do nothing?”

My analytical processes would have initially been turned towards answering the question ‘Is there a problem ?’. Failure to do this opened up society to every manner of fantastical old women’s solutions to non-existent problems and civil rights abuses.
(Apologies to any elderly females reading this).

156928 ▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Richard Pinch, 8, #58 of 1997 🔗

“You may be referring to a Reasonable Worst Case estimate — such things are explicitly not predictions — for a “do nothing” scenario. Since something very different from “do nothing”, namely a lockdown (to which many people reading these comments are very much opposed) it can’t be described as a “prediction” in any sense of the word.”

Neil Ferguson’s barmy figures were never described as a Reasonable Worst Case estimate.
In fact, he clearly stated that it was indeed a prediction!

“Perhaps our most significant conclusion is that mitigation is unlikely to be feasible without emergency surge capacity limits of the UK and US healthcaresystems being exceeded many times over. In the most effective mitigation strategy examined, which leads to a single, relatively short epidemic (case isolation, household quarantine and social distancing of the elderly), the surge limits for both general ward and ICUbeds would be exceeded by at least 8-fold under the more optimistic scenario forcritical care requirements that we examined.In addition, even if all patients were ableto be treated, we predict there would still be in the order of 250,000 deaths in GB, and 1.1-1.2 million in the US.”


I don’t think you should be defending the indefensible, by purporting it incorrectly.

157216 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Kevin 2, -3, #59 of 1997 🔗

Neil Ferguson’s barmy figures were never described as a Reasonable Worst Case estimate.

That is incorrect, assuming we’re talking about the 500,000 “do-nothing” estimate. The minutes of SAGE 11 on 26 February read

SAGE reviewed Covid-19 planning assumptions and advised that, in the reasonable worst case scenario, 80% of the UK population may become infected, with an overall 1% fatality rate in those infected.

That’s the 500,000 figure right there.

As always, that’s the figure I’m talking about. I haven’t studied his model in detail and make no comment about the validity of any other estimates, or predictions, he may have made.

158240 ▶▶▶▶ Dale, replying to Richard Pinch, #60 of 1997 🔗

Just jumping in here, why did we flail and fall off a cliff for this Reasonable Worst Case scenario and not past Reasonable Worst Case scenarios ?

157760 ▶▶▶ A Radcliffe, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #61 of 1997 🔗

The USA the clown is out by a factor of 11 Never thought I say it but the ars#hole has been that consistently bad that his figures are of some usr

156557 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Bailie, 3, #62 of 1997 🔗

Coppers 🚓 Told NOT To Download Test & Trace App “Security Reasons”

156620 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 5, #63 of 1997 🔗

I read somewhere that NHS staff have also been told not to download the app.

156764 ▶▶▶▶ claire, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #64 of 1997 🔗

I saw they were told to turn it off at work

156877 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #65 of 1997 🔗

A spokesperson for the NHS said the app had nothing to do with them it was the governments.

156911 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #66 of 1997 🔗

They’ve been sending hundreds of thousands of texts though, no ?

156983 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #67 of 1997 🔗

“A spokesperson for the NHS said the app had nothing to do with them it was the governments.”

It has nothing to do with me either.

Seriously, I’d like a link to the exact reference, if you have one.

The Police have shown that they like to to assemble in large groups, well in excess of six recently.
From a public health perspective, surely the app should be mandatory for them….

158032 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Kevin 2, #68 of 1997 🔗

Probably, but they can swirl around in the cesspool of their own making if they wish. I won’t join them in there. Definitely no T&T for me.

156916 ▶▶▶ court, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #69 of 1997 🔗

The benign IT firm I work for today sent an email to all staff full of weasel words that basically said it may be better for us to download it to personal phones and not our company mobile.

156573 ▶▶ annie, replying to Bailie, 15, #70 of 1997 🔗

I’ve written to him to express my gratitude for the stand he is making. Just to hear a sane voice in Parliament is like a breath of hope.

Long live Sane Dwayne!

156611 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to annie, 12, #71 of 1997 🔗

Me too and he even took the time to thank me – how kind. And how gratifying to see the anger in that barnstorming performance.

As I mentioned yesterday, I have had more responses from MPs who aren’t my MP than from the one who is.

157175 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Bailie, #72 of 1997 🔗

Top man – he replied to my email as well, tho I’m not a constituent,

156531 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 32, #73 of 1997 🔗

You would think that the Supreme Court would have something to say about the restriction of our liberties but, apparently, if it is in a cause they agree with, it’s all OK.

Now, a prorogation that might lead to Brexit, that’s another matter. That’s serious! They are straight on the case. But lockdown? No, all is fine.

157165 ▶▶ FThem, replying to WhyNow, 4, #74 of 1997 🔗

I agree, and I used to be a remainer. There are now Leave/Remain divides now, it is just us, the people, at war against an illegal lockdown which the judiciary are too cowardly to stand against.

157548 ▶▶ Malcolm Ramsay, replying to WhyNow, 1, #75 of 1997 🔗

“Now, a prorogation that might lead to Brexit, that’s another matter. That’s serious! They are straight on the case. But lockdown? No, all is fine.”

No, that’s not how it works. The Supreme Court doesn’t make a ruling on any case until it has worked its way up to them through the High Court and the Court of Appeal, and even then they’ll only rule on the issue as it is presented to them, and will confine themselves to ordering whatever reasonable remedy is asked for.

They’ll give a judgment on the government’s response to the perceived threat of this virus when Simon Dolan’s case, or some other challenge, reaches them. Until then, they’ll stay silent about it. The reason they’ll stay silent is because not doing so would be a political act and they know that for the judiciary to get involved in politics on its own initiative could be disastrous.

My impression is that Dolan’s case won’t transform the situation fundamentally even if he wins. As far as I’m aware, he’s arguing that the government has acted unlawfully within the existing system. But the underlying problem is the constitutional flaws that make Parliament sovereign without ensuring its integrity and accountability. To my mind, the only way the courts could really help get us out of this situation is if someone a) persuades them that the current system is irredeemably broken and b) offers both a plausible route to effective reform and a convincing analysis that it is legitimate for the court to order it. (Which would need arguments like this .)

156532 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 6, #76 of 1997 🔗

81 threatening to rebel with a Tory majority of 80 leaves how many will johnson need to bribe, cajole or blackmail to survive?

156615 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to karenovirus, 9, #77 of 1997 🔗

The Speaker

156637 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to 6097 Smith W, 17, #78 of 1997 🔗

Brady’s amendment is not the Promised Land. It’s a face-saving exercise that Bojo could drive a coach and four through if he chose, and might even be in his interests. If these heroic Tories are in earnest, let them vote down the Act.

156791 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Ovis, 6, #79 of 1997 🔗

I share that suspicion. It could be all grandstanding to make it look as if there is some pushback this time.

157261 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 4, #80 of 1997 🔗

Yes. I understand why Toby might want to big up Brady, but we should not forget what an absolute shower the Conservative Party has been, as a whole. The balance of probability is very much that the Party is attempting to walk both sides of the street. Grandstanding, as you say.

156873 ▶▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Ovis, 7, #81 of 1997 🔗

Sadly the only thing that solves the problem is repealing the act. Even with the amendment it just means rubber stamping because labour will always agree with restrictions and therefore he doesn’t need all his MPs to pass things through.

156915 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to karenovirus, 1, #82 of 1997 🔗

You missed out threaten, karen.

156533 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 7, #83 of 1997 🔗

Seems local lockdowns are not instigated as the result of increasing ‘cases’ as is reported, but from testing the sewage. Thousands of samples are being taken weekly with the advantage of being able to specify infected areas down to single towns or even blocks of streets.

These samples are tested in Department of Environment labs that usually and routinely test our fresh water supplies.

Two points arise
1). Is this the reason Track’n’Trace testing is in such a mess? Insufficient lab capacity is the stated problem. The government prefers testing shit to testing people.

2) Can we look forward to outbreaks of groovy waterborne diseases such as cholera, typhus, hepatitis. . . . 🤯 as our freshwater testing goes on the back burner ?

156535 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to karenovirus, 13, #84 of 1997 🔗

Let the cry be heard across the land: hands off our shit!

156592 ▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to OKUK, 4, #85 of 1997 🔗

Quite! Am I immune from government interference with my cesspit?

156600 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Sophie123, 9, #86 of 1997 🔗

If a government orc tries to test it, push them in and put on the lid. That will be a real test.

156701 ▶▶▶▶ Julian S, replying to Sophie123, 13, #87 of 1997 🔗

A sceptic tank?

156702 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Julian S, 2, #88 of 1997 🔗


156564 ▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 5, #89 of 1997 🔗

It seems appropriate that a policy of mental sewage should be supported by dabbling in sewage.

156572 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to karenovirus, 8, #90 of 1997 🔗

One giant shitshow

156648 ▶▶ RichT, replying to karenovirus, 2, #91 of 1997 🔗

The government are building a new lab near Exeter to test sewage, god knows how much that is costing.

157197 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to RichT, 4, #92 of 1997 🔗

Shitloads ?

156669 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to karenovirus, 29, #93 of 1997 🔗

Covid is now apparently spreading excrementally : boom, boom!

156820 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to wendyk, 3, #94 of 1997 🔗

good one!

158201 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to wendyk, 2, #95 of 1997 🔗

Now that’s class!

156675 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to karenovirus, 1, #96 of 1997 🔗

What is the source for this? I did wonder what had happened to the sewage survey which was given publicity back at the start of August I think, all has been quiet since then.

157205 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to DressageRider, 1, #97 of 1997 🔗

There is no source, I talk to a lot of people. Lots of people tell me interesting things. Security guards are but one very good source.
The part about the DoE labs came from inside.

156676 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to karenovirus, 2, #98 of 1997 🔗

Do you have a link for that? Is the suggestion that the local lockdowns are, in fact, justified? Or might the testing labs be suffering from the same false positives, cross-contamination, ‘cold positives’ issues as the Pillar 2 testing?

157229 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Barney McGrew, #99 of 1997 🔗

They could be making it up as they go along as with all the rest of it.
Perhaps they keep the sewage testing to themselves so that only they know what the situation really is.
l read with interest about false positives and Pillar 2 testing but have no knowledge.

156795 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to karenovirus, 2, #100 of 1997 🔗

If you can provide a source I can check with a few to confirm as I know people who do exactly this for the water company.

157213 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #101 of 1997 🔗

Worth a try but it is the DoE that collects the samples.

157214 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #102 of 1997 🔗


156823 ▶▶ Will, replying to karenovirus, 4, #103 of 1997 🔗

Clucking bell, someone has let DEFRA and the fecking Environment agency get involved. God help us all.

156536 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 11, #104 of 1997 🔗

The sheer insanity knows no bounds… But to quote Galadriel: “Hope remains, while the company is true.” Hear, hear, Sir Desmond Swayne.

156599 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 4, #105 of 1997 🔗

WE are the Company. Facing a quest – for the restoration of sanity in Britain – that may seem hopeless, but has to be pursued BECAUSE IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

Face up to the Covid Orcs.

156537 karenovirus, 10, #106 of 1997 🔗

Dr Gideon Micropenis brilliant as always.
Local students have been reported shopping in bulk to avoid lonely starvation should they follow Scotland and Manchester into internment.
Might account for claims that panic buying has resumed in some areas.

156539 karenovirus, 1, #107 of 1997 🔗

Example Scenario and cases source pie chart screenshot for use in The Conversation with waverers.

156541 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 19, #108 of 1997 🔗

By what mechanism can Police officers be advised not to obey self isolation instructions which would land the rest of us with a £1-10k fine ?

On the subject of policing, very pleasant sounding chap on from the Police Federation on Radio 4 yesterday saying how it would be impossible to enforce new lockdown measures because they lack resources.
Didn’t seem to ‘lack resources’ at Trafalgar Square on Saturday.

Csrl Vernon has an excellent at the scene report on YouTube, one comment noted a banner reading

“One Flu Over The Cuckoo’s Nest” 🤪
New to me.

157016 ▶▶ James Bertram, replying to karenovirus, 4, #109 of 1997 🔗

Good pun for ‘flew’
Ken Kesey – great book, great film, superb Jack Nicholson performance – often seen as a broad allegory of the United States being a mental institution governed by a cruel nurse (Animal Farm / Down on Maggie’s Farm) – most apt.

156542 Doodle, replying to Doodle, 35, #110 of 1997 🔗

There’s something really weird going on.

I read practically every post on here and I’m familiar with everyone’s experience of contact with the masked zombies on a daily basis but I have not had the same experience.

Since last week I’ve been making it a thing to go out walking through and around the streets of the town and, out in the open air, I’ve seen one mask, one!

Any deliveries we receive are done by unmasked drivers and no postman/woman wears one. No neighbours of ours wear them, no dog walkers wear them. Nobody passing by the house wears them. I’ve never seen any one in our road wearing one.

Yesterday I walked past all the mums waiting to pick up their kids from a school and again, not one mask to be seen anywhere. They were stood in groups all chatting, no social distancing as far as I could tell. They weren’t even concerned as I zig-zagged my way through them, no jumping out of the way. I even stopped to talk to the dogs there without anyone batting an eyelid.

At the top of our road is another school and nearly all of the mothers pass by our house on their way home with the kids and, yet again, no masks are to be seen.

Am I living in a parallel universe?

Apologies that this post is apropos of nothing. I’d promise to write something ‘on topic’ but, as Mary Poppins said, “That’s a pie crust promise. Easily made, easily broken.”

To make up for it, have another t-shirt.

156544 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Doodle, 20, #111 of 1997 🔗

They won’t, of course, be ashamed. As in France after WW2 they will all turn out to have been members of The Resistance.

156631 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 15, #112 of 1997 🔗

Worse… They will claim that the only reason covid is gone is because of the masks. It will have worked, and they will take all the credit. That is already the story that is being published in our newspapers (WA state). The message: keep wearing them! (Presumably forever)

156646 ▶▶▶ DaveB, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 30, #113 of 1997 🔗

I’ve suffered abuse and even lost friends over my stance on lockdown, but I hope we can be magnanimous when we win. We’re resisting this for everybody’s futures.

156727 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to DaveB, 9, #114 of 1997 🔗

Agree. I always have to remember Churchill when he said:

In War: Resolution; In Defeat: Defiance; In Victory: Magnanimity; In Peace: Good Will

156909 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to DaveB, 6, #115 of 1997 🔗

I will be living in a different world.. Different organisations, different church, different friends, new everything. I’ve learned whom and what not to trust.

156709 ▶▶▶ Jane in France, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 33, #116 of 1997 🔗

Talking of France, here’s a scary story I read on the covidinfos forum. A teenage girl is waiting for a friend outside a school (not her own school). Headmaster comes out and tells her to put on a mask. In France you have to wear a mask at school all day including in the classroom. Girl refuses, saying she’s outside the school gates and it isn’t her school. Headmaster threatens to call the police and goes back into the school. Next thing, messages arrive on the girl’s phone from friends on the bus who had witnessed the scene. A police car is on its way! She manages to escape before the gendarmes pile out. They ask the young people standing about who she is. Her friends don’t give her away. Another police car is called. Two police cars go hunting through the streets of the town for a maskless teenager. A couple of friends hide her – one even creates a diversion. She gets away. Men with guns obeying orders, car chases, loyal friends, diversions – it’s like a scene from a war film about the Resistance. For not wearing a mask! .

156719 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Jane in France, 2, #117 of 1997 🔗

Sounds like the return of the dreaded Milice. Awful!

156889 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Jane in France, 7, #118 of 1997 🔗

Horribly similar to war time when both Jews and members of the Resistance were being hunted. France does of course have a history of doing just that!

157066 ▶▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to Jane in France, 11, #119 of 1997 🔗

In Russia children don’t wear masks in schools.
So which country is a western democracy and which is a dictatorship?

157255 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to JulieR, 2, #120 of 1997 🔗

That nice Mr Putin has declared the return of winter flu to be just that.
Hopefully he will soon be dealing with the Russian fergusons with extreme prejudice.

157388 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to karenovirus, 1, #121 of 1997 🔗

I’d like to see Dr Strangelove crossing swords with Vlad!

157901 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to JulieR, 2, #122 of 1997 🔗

Is the one in which peaceful political protesters are baton charged the dictatorship?

156548 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Doodle, 19, #123 of 1997 🔗

Lucky you Doodle, it’s a peer pressure thing. Is your town particularly isolated?

Muzzling seems to be led by shoppers, not so many joggers or dog walkers.
You should encourage your co residents to move afield and spread masklessness throughout the county like a new virus
😷 😃

156550 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Doodle, 9, #124 of 1997 🔗

This sounds like Sweden, or towns I visit in my dreams. How can this be so in the UK in 2020?

156553 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Doodle, 26, #125 of 1997 🔗

Comes and goes a bit in my area.

I’m 200 yards from a primary school; most mums, no mask, but kids are (cruelty); most delivery guys and the posties, no mask, but… my God, the number of people I see alone in their car, driving past my house wearing a mask, with the windows up, is something I cannot fathom at all.

Another one that gets me: people (masked) stepping off the pavement into the aforementioned road to avoid my unmasked face. I’m going to end up causing a road accident one day, and the poor bastard will, no doubt, be put down as having died of Covid. 🙂

156642 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Ceriain, 9, #126 of 1997 🔗

You will not have caused the accident.

156780 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Ovis, 6, #127 of 1997 🔗

Fear and paranoia caused it. Generated by the government and the media.

156578 ▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Doodle, 11, #128 of 1997 🔗

We’re in a large village, v ery few in masks round here. If you go into our nearest city there are significantly more, but it’s still far from universal. This is one of the reasons I’m so suspicious about opinion polls on acceptance of government diktats – I can’t see any obvious pattern in masking by geography, race, sex, age. Obviously I can’t see political orientation, but there’s no obvious reason why that would make a difference either. If the critera which make people more likely to mask up (and presumably more likely to support other measures) are so ephemeral, how can you possibly weight a sample of votes on the matter to the population as a whole?

156585 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Andrew Fish, 5, #129 of 1997 🔗

I think in cities, where people encounter strangers most of the time, it’s a mix of herd mentality/risk of shaming, virtue signalling, thinking that the more we comply the sooner it will be over with and others who think that the more measures are introduced the worse the Covid must be.

156630 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to karenovirus, 10, #130 of 1997 🔗

It’s odd because cities due to their size and offer a large measure of anonymity that one would have thought there would be less muzzling because the chances of bumping into someone you know is small to non-existent.

However I have to agree with you on virtue signalling. I live & work in London and there is a lot of virtue signalling here, particularly in places with a large upper middle class presence.

Add in people who come from very conformist cultures and yep, one can see the reason why there would be more muzzling in cities.

156827 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to karenovirus, 4, #131 of 1997 🔗

I agree. People are worried they’ll stand out. It’s that simple.

The experiment will only stand any chance of seeing an impact if everyone wears a masks everywhere all of the time. Including in your own home. 100% compliance. So mandates needed as, without them, very few choose t wear them. The really ironic thing is to make themselves feel better, even though they are only wearing them because they’ve been told to, they now think they are all about the science and victimise anyone who dares to carry on mask less.

It’s shown the worst in people. They don’t even know the guidance half the time. Seen so many people wearing masks with the filters when the guidance says explicitly not to use them as they are useless when dealing with a virus.

People are total sheep. I am thinking of starting a new business because if they can be hoodwinked so easily, I’ve underestimated how easy it must be to take their money.

156595 ▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Doodle, 7, #132 of 1997 🔗

Where do you live? I spend my time shuttling between Wiltshire and LOndon.
Wiltshire is mask free apart from the supermarket. London, a good minority wear them on the street. Age is irrelevant. I stare at them hard but I would love one of your T shirts so they knew why.

156712 ▶▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to Sophie123, 38, #133 of 1997 🔗

I live in a small town in Northumberland which is full of masked zombies, mainly in the queue outside Waitrose! B&M Bargains, far less so.
There is a definite class element to this. The landed gentry and the farmers think the whole thing is nonsense. A friend told me approvingly the other day about an auctioneer at the Mart who, having been instructed to wear a ‘face covering’ by the management, was striding around the cattle pens in a bandana like a baddie in a Western, telling everyone how absurd it was. Farmers, of course, know about animal disease and suffered from FMD in 2001.
The working class is largely ignoring the whole thing, particularly the men. There are plenty of obediently masked women in shops but the men have a hastily tied Newcastle United scarf, if anything at all. The council estate near me is paying no heed to the ‘no household mixing’ rule and is continuing to hold bonfire parties in the gardens; a phenomenon here throughout every summer and up until Bonfire Night. There have already been fireworks. As everyone there is related to each other and few of them work or go anywhere except Aldi for their drink, I think the police have judiciously decided to leave them alone. We only have a handful of police officers anyway!
The real masked zombies are the West End middle classes; public sector professionals; Momentum activists; BLM and XR supporters and hysterics. Not only do they wear masks in the street, so do their small, brainwashed children. Makes a change from obsessing about their ‘food intolerances’, I suppose!
These young healthy, well paid, well fed, exercised, white, middle class people are, of course, the least likely to die of the virus if they were to catch it and they only mix with each other, at the school gate and Waitrose. Their ostentatious mask wearing is entirely virtue signalling, to ‘show solidarity with the vulnerable’. That does not, of course, include the white working class (there is no other sort) in their own town whose jobs their obsessive fears are destroying.

157264 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Caroline Watson, 3, #134 of 1997 🔗

Brilliant social observation on both sides of the fence, thank you.

157668 ▶▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to Caroline Watson, 1, #135 of 1997 🔗

Best read of the day, thanks Caroline!

156604 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Doodle, 5, #136 of 1997 🔗

Very few outdoor masks where I live – a medium sized county town. Very high compliance in shops, some in the street near shops (people not taking them off between exiting one shop and entering the next) but otherwise close to zero. People distance here more than in London, but I wonder if that’s partly because we can – there’s more space and people are in less of a hurry. On recent trips to London, a lot more outdoor mask wearing there, but may be related to shops and public transport.

156626 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Doodle, 13, #137 of 1997 🔗

You’re lucky. I’ve become discombubulated in my own workplace because I’m the only one unmuzzled (both staff and visitors). Still, its nice that some visitors deliberately approach me because I’m not wearing a mask.

156634 ▶▶ RyanM, replying to Doodle, 4, #138 of 1997 🔗

I went to Seattle recently and I don’t think I saw more than one or two unmasked faces. Even people outside, riding bikes or jogging, all alone… Lots of masks in cars, too.

156649 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Doodle, #139 of 1997 🔗

Sorry, can’t make it out … “you will be ?????” Guess my screen resolution is not quite up to it.

156674 ▶▶ EllGee, replying to Doodle, 3, #140 of 1997 🔗

Village in the East Midlands. Currently masks are few, not in the shop, not at school. Our local town has them in the shops but probably 30% outside. Majority still free faced at the moment

156710 ▶▶ PaulH, replying to Doodle, 11, #141 of 1997 🔗

Well I live in Muzzleville yesterday, which is (or was) a prosperous large town in Southern England.

Nearly everyone is muzzled inside, with quite a few people muzzled out on the streets too and in their cars.

I went to my local shop yesterday and three out of four people I met on the street cringed away as I approached; one in a doorway, one held back from a narrower part of the path and one went into someone’s driveway.

One of these people, a dog walker, was even muzzled out on an empty street – though his dog wasn’t!

It looks like perhaps the muzzles are a smug middle class thing. Perhaps the Johnson psycho-warfare doesn’t work so well on working class types.

156808 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to PaulH, 8, #142 of 1997 🔗

If you’re constantly having to face genuine problems then you tend to have a very sensitive BS radar.

157217 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to PaulH, 1, #143 of 1997 🔗
156759 ▶▶ Jane G, replying to Doodle, 1, #144 of 1997 🔗

Where can I get one?

156841 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Jane G, 1, #145 of 1997 🔗

Right HERE!

156778 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Doodle, 1, #146 of 1997 🔗

You are! Masked zombies everywhere I go, even out on the streets.

156981 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Doodle, #147 of 1997 🔗

Another great t-shirt!

157662 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to Doodle, #148 of 1997 🔗

Awesome shirt!!

156543 Nigel Sherratt, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 6, #149 of 1997 🔗

Dido’s Lament a poignant choice given its traditional place at the Cenotaph.

Remember me,
remember me,
but ah
Forget my fate

156929 ▶▶ LS99, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #150 of 1997 🔗

Yes an excellent choice and an excellent version of it.

156545 Laurence, 7, #151 of 1997 🔗

Still nonsense being talked about Spain and France. If you look at any proper analysis ‘cases’ have gone up massively and hospitalisations, ICUs and deaths have hardly moved. To the extent they have, the prevalence of positive tests in the population at large (8.3%) is far greater than the prevalence in the deaths (2.7%) – figures for France. So no evidence at all of any ‘second wave’.

156547 William Gruff, replying to William Gruff, -21, #152 of 1997 🔗

And there was I thinking nobody took any notice of the over-rated, opinionated mediocrity Brendan O’Neill, who does a very good impersonation of someone who knows fuck-all about anything.

157156 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to William Gruff, #153 of 1997 🔗

Just you and me then William. 🙂

Utter bollocks that piece Toby included today. The reset concept (and its implications) maybe terrifies him (Brendan) sufficiently for his brain to stop functioning ?

156549 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #154 of 1997 🔗

It is absolutely essential that anyone who can do, contacts their MP. I’m surprised Toby hasn’t already flagged this.


156654 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #155 of 1997 🔗

I, like others, have written to my MP more than once, but with absolutely no response. Do you think that they even read their mail?

156657 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Ozzie, 1, #156 of 1997 🔗

Same here, but I’ve seen mine stand up in Parliament and is one of the so called ‘rebels’ so he’s onside but maybe getting inundated with mail and too swamped to wade through it. He did say he’s seeing constituents again, with or without a mask.

156718 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Ozzie, 1, #157 of 1997 🔗

I kept getting a standard answer (usually to a question I hadn’t asked) several weeks later. Given up, the plan no doubt. No chance of ever voting her out (Whately).

157160 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 1, #158 of 1997 🔗

Saw her on a video yesterday – nasty piece of work, incapable of rational thought.

156552 john, replying to john, 11, #159 of 1997 🔗

Re: the graph. It seems to be that the virus went into retreat just a couple of days after Johnson’s spectacular Churchillian speech. Could it be that he so effectively mobilized the English language, and – perhaps combined with the threat of bringing in the army – scared the nasty virus away? I can’t think of any other logical explanation to account for the non realization of Witless and Unbalanced non predictive prediction….

156565 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to john, 5, #160 of 1997 🔗

“Churchillian” ?
johnson is not fit to wear the great mans trousers though he might just squeeze into his bloomers.

156569 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 10, #161 of 1997 🔗

Plenty of room in those, as Boris has no balls.

156917 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to karenovirus, 1, #162 of 1997 🔗

He’s not even a good tribute act.
Closer to one of those fat Las Vegas Elvis’s

156568 ▶▶ annie, replying to john, 3, #163 of 1997 🔗

The perversion if language is indeed having a powerful effect on the witless. Indeed, when sanity returns (yes, WHEN – I’m sticking to that), and the huge academic industry of Covid Insanity Studies begins, Covvielanguage (‘covocabulary’) will be a big branch of that industry.
David Crystal, who has got rich by writing popular books on the English language, is already beavering away. He thinks it’s all great and shows what creative little kiddiewinkies we all are. See e.g.


156576 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 3, #164 of 1997 🔗

Many of those words will remain forever, long after people forget where they came from

Ring a ring of roses
A pocket full of Posies
Atishoo Atishoo
We All Fall Down

156577 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to karenovirus, 21, #165 of 1997 🔗

Or, as I wrote some time ago here:

Ring a ring of morons,
Time to put the masks on
Atishoo Atishoo
We all lock down

156583 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to wendyk, 5, #166 of 1997 🔗

It’s just occured to me, if schoolchildren still sing that nursery rhyme would it be in breach of No Covid Jokes policy ?

156589 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to karenovirus, 3, #167 of 1997 🔗

You could be right! Another offence for the Thought Police to investigate!

156713 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to karenovirus, 3, #168 of 1997 🔗

Sneezing, amazingly, is on the very short list of things that are not a symptom according to WHO, CDC and Boots (link posted here a few days ago) .

156721 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 1, #169 of 1997 🔗

I sneezed on a bus journey recently and the woman seated across the isle started and looked worried.

157242 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to wendyk, 2, #170 of 1997 🔗

I must up my snuff consumption. Usually only on long train rides or flights. But I see an opportunity here …

157391 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to JohnB, 1, #171 of 1997 🔗

O yes! Loud explosive eruptions accompanied by conspicuous snuff consumption.

158409 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to wendyk, 2, #172 of 1997 🔗

It does get you funny looks in some pubs, where other substances are (allegedly) taken nasally. 🙂

156554 Ceriain, replying to Ceriain, 48, #173 of 1997 🔗


Really enjoyed Jon Snow’s excellent rant at Handjob last night, especially the “we are a laughing stock” line.

He’s right, sadly, but if Snow thinks we are a laughing stock now, wait till he sees Johnson’s plan for our new national flag. (see below).

156560 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Ceriain, 6, #174 of 1997 🔗

hancock “. . . i hope. . . ”
Tersely interrupted
Jon Snow “you know nothing of what’s going on”
hancock ” . . . . .”
Marvellous stuff.

156561 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Ceriain, 5, #175 of 1997 🔗

Surely a front runner for the new UN flag?

156658 ▶▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Richard O, 2, #176 of 1997 🔗

… or WHO

156732 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Richard O, 4, #177 of 1997 🔗

It’s actually the same colour as the current UN flag

156562 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Ceriain, 27, #178 of 1997 🔗

What Hancock knows, and what Snow now realises and is so animated about after months of supine obeisance, is that their wealth is gone. The upper middle class are being thrown under the bus along with everyone else. No wonder we are hearing rumours of a Tory backbench “rebellion” against the government. And they are paying for their children to be incarcerated at university, which I’m sure has fuelled the increase in MSM animosity towards the government in recent days.

156596 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Richard O, 8, #179 of 1997 🔗

Jon’s finger poking 👉 at hancock was quite remarkable.

156597 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 8, #180 of 1997 🔗

I would recommend knuckle dusters next time round.

157940 ▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to annie, 1, #181 of 1997 🔗

Nearly Annie; I know you are too ladylike to have watched the Tom Hardy portrayal of the Kray twins, but the start of the pub fight between the Krays and the loudmouths who think that Reggie is going to get a hiding in the pub (he pulls out a pair of knuckledusters, and Ronnie sneaks in with a pair of hammers) is quite pleasant to watch, if you visualise the Krays as the public and the other gang as the COVID-authoritarians within our society.

156638 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Richard O, 18, #182 of 1997 🔗

Not to mention that months ago Sunak didn’t rule out tax raids on pensions and he’s long wanted to abolish the triple lock. As our economy goes into freefall, I can picture the Treasury doing exactly that. Hence why the upper MC who were so enthusiastic about lockdown and the associated paraphernalia are slowly turning against it. Not only are their little darlings turning into inmates at Dachau but also their wealth is next on the hit list.

Their conversion to the cause of lockdown scepticism is most welcome however they have to realise that they will have to share the economic pain just like the rest of us.

156706 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #183 of 1997 🔗

Wait for the wealth tax, that will wake a few more people.

156735 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 3, #184 of 1997 🔗

Exactly. I think Sunak was also gunning for that when he mentioned that he wanted to get rid of the triple lock. That should make the upper MC folk quake in their boots.

156852 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Richard O, 22, #185 of 1997 🔗

The student incarceration has finally brought the covid restrictions home to roost for the liberal chattering classes. They have loved working from home and signalling their wealth and virtue but now Lola and Olive aren’t getting their university experience they are finally starting to question the necessity of lockdown…

156948 ▶▶▶▶ JohnMac, replying to Will, 7, #186 of 1997 🔗

Indeed. Empathy for less well-off people evidently not their strong point.

156976 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Will, 7, #187 of 1997 🔗

Yes, because this is a situation that they cannot ‘pay their way out of’ – ie they cannot use their money to get ‘Lola and Olive’ special privileges like exemption from the rules…

156651 ▶▶ anon, replying to Ceriain, 1, #188 of 1997 🔗

was this clip from last night?

157101 ▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to Ceriain, #189 of 1997 🔗

Shared on our Twitter!

157334 ▶▶ Sceptic in Oxford, replying to Ceriain, 5, #190 of 1997 🔗

It’s not too late to write to your MP to “encourage them” to vote down the Coronavirus Act tomorrow. Sharing our experiences here helps keep our spirits up but unless Bojo and the Clowns get a bloody nose, this nightmare will continue.

156555 Sir Patrick Vaccine, 3, #191 of 1997 🔗

A clear demonstration showing how the lockdown saved no lives in Britain,

using Ferguson’s predictions for deaths in Britain and Sweden and what actually happened in both countries.

If you take Ferguson’s prediction for no lockdown Sweden with the official death rate it was 12 times lower.

SWEDEN Prediction 70,000 official deaths 5,880

Divide Neil Ferguson’s (Imperial College London) prediction for the UK with no lockdown,

UK 500,000 by 12 you reach a figure of 41,666 .

Currently the official figure for the UK is 41,988


Andrew Neil: “Boris Johnson panicked – hard to say Sweden was wrong” (and what it means for the UK)

Please share – send to your MP, whatever

156558 Sir Patrick Vaccine, #192 of 1997 🔗

Coppers 🚓 Told NOT To Download Test & Trace App “Security Reasons”

156563 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 14, #193 of 1997 🔗

The proles in Orwell’s 1984 had it better than the current undermensch of the UK

The pubs were open, no track and trace, and they could stand at bar and sing if they wished. They were free to mix with their parents, children, and grandchildren

It was ok to mingle with friends

Ok, so they had no access to dentistry, or medical care, but neither do we anymore

They had a few casualties caused by the rockets fired from East Asia, but the numbers were tiny compared with how many this dictator has killed

Life was pretty safe and torture was only inflicted on members of the party.

Personally, I have no problem with a hungary rat being inserted in handy cock’s helmut (titter ye not)

156566 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cecil B, #194 of 1997 🔗

Titter 😀 as 😊 much 😂 I 😅 like, 😅 thank 🤧 you 😜

156567 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Cecil B, 2, #195 of 1997 🔗


156691 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Cecil B, #196 of 1997 🔗

does it have to be hungarian or will any east european rat do. ?

156704 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Cecil B, 2, #197 of 1997 🔗

Were the rockets really Eastasian? Party terror tactic quite possible, as now.

156570 annie, replying to annie, 9, #198 of 1997 🔗

‘Mask recognition technology’???
Can’t the posse of bullying thugs that lurks outside every supermarket tell the difference between a human being and a nappied sheeple? They need a machine to do it for them?

156580 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 2, #199 of 1997 🔗

In big Chinese cities they use an app with facial recognition that docks your bank account (also on the app) the moment you drop an item in your shopping bag. No credit card or phone needs swiping.
Sounds great except they cancel you if you fail to sing the Great Leaders praises enthusiastically enough each morning.

Cash is not an option.

156680 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to karenovirus, 4, #200 of 1997 🔗

Oh, but the convenience of no cash.
Just think how you can save yourself all of a minute or two whenever. you go the shops. I don’t know about anyone else, but if I can save a couple of minutes every time I buy something, I could easily be saving 10 minutes a week, maybe 15? Surely that’s worth giving all your freedom up for?

156688 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to stewart, 1, #201 of 1997 🔗

in sweden (i think) they have trialled microchips implanted in the arm. not only gets you through doors but can be used for payment

156683 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to karenovirus, 3, #202 of 1997 🔗

they also use the same technology to issue toilet paper in public toilets. You get 5 pieces. if that is not enough you have to go out, wait 10 minutes and then come back in again. .
Humorous but then if you extend this to Xingjiang and the Uyghurs where additionally they have QR codes on houses (that the police can scan to get details of who is there), mandatory apps on the phone, phone scanning points where the police download the contents of your phone.
Sounds familiar

156896 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, #203 of 1997 🔗

Need to see your face for that, then?

156571 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 1, #204 of 1997 🔗


Hendrix ‘All Along The Watchtower’ ;a song for our times.

And, for our hapless, confined,overcharged,shamefully imprisoned students, I predict electrified fences and watchtowers.

156574 ▶▶ annie, replying to wendyk, 2, #205 of 1997 🔗

For Oxford and Cambridge colleges?
It’ll be a challenge … but I dare say Britain’s New Model SS will rise to it.

156581 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, #206 of 1997 🔗

Locally it’s one road in and one road out.
Two Watchtowers will suffice.

156584 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to annie, 6, #207 of 1997 🔗

Think you’re right Annie : the einsatzgruppen will take up the challenge,masked,armed with tasers and eager to do their patriotic duty.

SS Covidmeister Hancock will direct from Westminster,and change the rules on an ad hoc basis, just to keep the squads on their toes.

And up here, Chef Oberaufseherin Sturgeon will direct from Holyrood,ensuring that the Kommandofuhrerinen stick to allocated schedules.

Vernichtung durch arbeit

156616 ▶▶ TJN, replying to wendyk, 2, #208 of 1997 🔗

I always much preferred the Dylan version!

156629 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to TJN, #209 of 1997 🔗

I think both are good;albeit very different.

‘John Wesley Harding’ is one of his best LPs,along with ‘The Freewheelin’ Bob Dylan’

156754 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to wendyk, 2, #210 of 1997 🔗

Blood on the Tracks for me, and Bringing it all Back Home.

156991 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to TJN, 1, #211 of 1997 🔗

I’d forgotten ‘Blood on the Tracks’; ‘Simple twist of Fate’ is a favourite.

157998 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to wendyk, #212 of 1997 🔗

‘Idiot Wind’ seems appropriate now.

156698 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to TJN, 1, #213 of 1997 🔗

And this, picking up wendyk’s hapless, confined,overcharged,shamefully imprisoned students

Tolling for the aching ones whose wounds cannot be nursed
For the countless confused, accused, misused, strung-out ones an’ worse
An’ for every hung-up person in the whole wide universe
An’ we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashing

156761 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #214 of 1997 🔗

I’ve often thought of ‘Chimes of Freedom Flashing’ in the last few months, but especially ‘It’s alright Ma’, and ‘Let me die in my Footsteps’.

156686 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to wendyk, 1, #215 of 1997 🔗

Combined rather brilliantly with Hurricane in Girl from the North Country . Odds on ever seeing that live again? Still waiting for news of Leopoldstadt starting up again.

157009 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to wendyk, 1, #216 of 1997 🔗

Hendrix played at Woodstock during an Avian flu pandemic,

156575 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 30, #217 of 1997 🔗

Simple questions to ask people to make them think.

1. Do you know anyone who has died of Covid 19?

2. Where are the deaths in supermarkets?

3. Why did Covid 19 clear up so quickly in China?

4. If masks work why is influenza on the rise currently as it does every winter? Why were we constantly told mask don’t work?

156588 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 8, #218 of 1997 🔗

I mentioned the 200 daily deaths from Summer flu to someone, unsurprisingly they had no idea.

156590 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 11, #219 of 1997 🔗

You do have to be careful asking your question 1, we know a number of people who have died of Covid and more who have been seriously ill. If you ask your question 1 and the answer is yes then the whole conversation switches to a personal and emotional basis.
Don’t get me wrong I think the lockdown and masks are all nonsense but some people have had some sad personal and tragic experiences over the last 6 months.

156594 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Steve Martindale, 5, #220 of 1997 🔗

You’re right.
Of course, many other people have had personal and tragic experiences with death from other causes, but what does a. Coronazombie care about other people?

156613 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to annie, 5, #221 of 1997 🔗

No. You are talking about borderline psychotic behaviour – interning children, forcibly vaccinating people. Troubled individuals.

156865 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Steve Martindale, 6, #222 of 1997 🔗

I am convinced that the biggest factor in covid deaths was intubation. When they stopped sticking tubes into people, as the Chinese had told the world was necessary, and followed the evidence of their eyes/ their instincts as clinicians, the fatality rate fell off a cliff.

156887 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Will, 2, #223 of 1997 🔗

a 50% death rate for the intubated isn’t it?

156640 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 4, #224 of 1997 🔗

Corollary to number 4 – why is it that despite mask wearing why is it that East Asia has one of the highest statistics when it comes to flu?

156692 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #225 of 1997 🔗

It is a widely held misconception that Asians are used to wearing masks.

That is simply not true. Until this Feb, seeing someone wearing a mask in any Chinese city or anywhere in South East Asia was a rarity.

When you saw somebody with a mask it was either

(a) because they were protecting themselves from pollution
(b) they were a sophisticated urbanite with a cold of some sort being considerate

The vast vast vast majority of people never wore masks.

156743 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to stewart, 3, #226 of 1997 🔗

Agree. When Mr Bart and I went to Japan nearly 3 years ago, there weren’t that many people wearing masks however even then there was a phenomenon where you get people who aren’t even sick wearing them – mostly young people. Which has lead to Japanese mental health experts raising the alarm over the growing social maladujstment among the country’s young people.

157111 ▶▶▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #227 of 1997 🔗

I was in Hong Kong in 2018. Didn’t see anyone in a mask.

157729 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to JulieR, #228 of 1997 🔗

Its more a Japanese thing really rather that Chinese.

156879 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 3, #229 of 1997 🔗

Question one is a very very bad question. This is because just about anybody will say they “know” sombody who died of “IT”. This will be granny who was old and ill anyway, or “a guy at work” who’s mates dad died of “IT”. Everybody has a STORY and a stake in the Corona Movie.

This is the number one put-down that a covid cultist will use to justify EVERYTHING. Its an easy and obvious show stopper. It will shut down any discussion of any counter-narrative FAST

The next one that cultists will use is, well my Mum/gran/child/aunty/etc is immuno suppressed or vulnerable so I am doing “the covid thing” to protect them. It’s hard to counter than without sounding callous. Steer round that one to, putting a person in a position where they have to hit you with this one.

Perhaps it would be better to ask them first if they are “shielding” then you can be all sympathetic towards them and take the take approach of trying to lift their fears.

I can’t help thinking that there will be real need for trained councillors to de-program the brainwashed. It’s so serious the damage that has been done to people that it will take some very skilled therapists to untangle the scrambled thought processes.

156579 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 1, #230 of 1997 🔗

I,m not prepared to take a lecture from a person with a haircut like that


156586 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cecil B, #231 of 1997 🔗

Even mine looks better than that and I’m still doing mine myself. 😱

156593 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, 6, #232 of 1997 🔗

But there’s a smidgeon of humanity in what she says:

‘And as one of Wales’ leading end-of-life care specialists she is calling for health organisations not to impose a blanket ban on families visiting due to coronavirus restrictions going forward.
During the peak it was not uncommon for next of kin be prevented from spending their final hours with their loved ones.
“I think we need to have a much more nuanced, gentle, compassionate approach to how we manage people who are dying and those who love them,” she said.
“They want to be with them [at the end], they want to sit with them, of course they do.
“And I worry that we may have got the balance wrong and we need to get it right.”‘

I didn’t think any if our Covid Death Ministers was human enough to think that dying people ought not to be abandoned. After all, these ministers aren’t savages. Savages know better.

157500 ▶▶ Mel, replying to Cecil B, #233 of 1997 🔗

She still thinks we need to “flatten that curve” for the exhausted NHS! What curve is she looking at?

156582 annie, replying to annie, 9, #234 of 1997 🔗

The excellent Sir Desmond has a blog


Definitely worth following. Pearls from Swayne!

156587 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 5, #235 of 1997 🔗

‘Pearls from Swayne” very good.

156598 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to karenovirus, 2, #236 of 1997 🔗

A gem from annie

156602 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to wendyk, #237 of 1997 🔗


156605 ▶▶ TJN, replying to annie, 5, #238 of 1997 🔗

Hi Annie,

Apologies, thread diversion. I don’t get time to read all the posts on here, and often browse them very late. By chance yesterday I came across your post telling of your experience going to church unmasked, and was saddened to read it.

I’m not one for revealed religion, being more of a deist myself, but feel sure that God appreciates those who step outside of groupthink and act according to their own conscience on what they deem to be right, especially when it requires the courage which you have so resolutely displayed.

Doodle’s t-shirt on here today will be proved true, I am sure.

156612 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to TJN, 5, #239 of 1997 🔗

I’m reminded totally out of the blue of the Sunday School parable (?) about a jester doing acrobatic stunts in front of an alter.
He is reprimanded by one priest before another declares that he is doing the right thing by offering his one skill to God.

156892 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, #240 of 1997 🔗

That’s a vey old story.The Virgin came down from her plinth and mopped the brow of the tumbler, because he’d done his very best in her honour.

156888 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to TJN, 3, #241 of 1997 🔗

Thank you, TJN.
I’m going to go next Sunday, to show I haven’t been scared off, and then never again. I won’t worship the Covid devil in what used to be a house of God.

157196 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to annie, #242 of 1997 🔗

Good on you.

156601 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 17, #243 of 1997 🔗

This virus hoo-haa has seen statistics and figures thrown around and used just to make a point rather than with any sense of logic and context.
They just announced on the BBc radio that over 1 million people around the World have died from Covid and said no more. I think that is an example of the poor journalism that has characterised this hoo-haa. I million sounds a lot but it needs to be put into context. When I heard that figure I had no idea how many people die around the world each year and I expect neither did many listeners.

It looks as though 57 million people die each year around the world and so 1 million Covid deaths represents; 1.75% of the worlds annual deaths. Project Covid fear continues and I am afraid The BBC have become its mouthpiece. All they had to do was to put the 1 million figure into the context of 1.75% to give a much more balanced news item.

156641 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #244 of 1997 🔗

That figure is about as trustworthy as Matt Hancock and the BBC surely knows this.

156667 ▶▶ tonys, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #245 of 1997 🔗

I posted a similar though less comprehensive comment above before reading this, they really are shocking, we need our sceptical comrades with access to the media to make this point.

156725 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #246 of 1997 🔗

There almost seems to be some kind of sick celebration around their now being 1 million deaths, in the same way that the MSM we wanting Sweden to fail and thus every time the death rate or infections went up they would be bosting we were right they were wrong, just hoping that Sweden would fail.

156884 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to JohnB, 1, #247 of 1997 🔗

The Beeb just LOVES death.

156895 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to annie, #248 of 1997 🔗

Oooooh they do. Mummmmm DEATH!

156606 karenovirus, 3, #249 of 1997 🔗

Trafalgar Square demo.
Just seen at Breitbart UK 27th Sept.
4 minute vid, from about 3 mins police are penned in by angry but not hostile crowd, unmasked anxious looking officer talks to worried looking colleague to confirm what appears to be an exit strategy using those choppy hand gestures.

At 3.30 an officer at the rear batons a person to the ground After Which several others pile in on him when he was already down. Shocking.

Sorry, can’t do links from Android.

156608 Cecil B, #250 of 1997 🔗

Aaronson and Rutherford return to The Ministry of Love and another spell in room 101 with uncle Dom


156609 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 9, #251 of 1997 🔗

Daily Mail: RICHARD LITTLEJOHN: These restrictions are a concerted assault on our civil liberties.

156707 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Tom Blackburn, #252 of 1997 🔗

I do hope Hancock et al. read it.

156781 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #253 of 1997 🔗

Yes, I’d love to see his face when he sees himself described as an ‘infuriating little squit’ !!!

‘Priti Flamingo’ was also an inspired choice of description!

156866 ▶▶ kf99, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #254 of 1997 🔗

His best so far. “.. a baffled Tory minister… told him: ‘We got one briefing note about how people could be allowed to mingle. It said they could meet in the garden if they socially distance, but couldn’t enter a Wendy House if there was one.”

156614 Guirme, replying to Guirme, 43, #255 of 1997 🔗

We had a lovely meal out last night in a busy restaurant. No masks, no obvious restrictions, just people talking, laughing, eating – enjoying themselves as normal human beings. Afterwards a drink at the bar. What happens at 10 o’clock? Nothing – people keep on enjoying themselves. Where am I? Haarlem in the Netherlands enjoying normality.

This does raise the questions of why is there such a ridiculous over reaction to Covid 19 in the UK and why the people are accepting it. Why is the Uk the stupidest and most subservient nation in Europe?

I am dreading returning to the UK particularly as I will be placed under house arrest by the evil regime that we live under.

156617 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Guirme, 40, #256 of 1997 🔗

I will never be able to look on the British people in the same light again. I’m actually ashamed to be British now.

156623 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to TJN, 11, #257 of 1997 🔗

Indeed, I have a long memory and can hold a grudge

156636 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to stefarm, 11, #258 of 1997 🔗

So much of what I thought being British stood for has gone now. Having said that, there are still a very small minority, many of whom have presumably gravitated to this site, still stand tall. Perhaps it was ever thus.

156919 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to TJN, 5, #259 of 1997 🔗

I have British and Irish passports and have always confused people by being proud to hail from both countries but, sadly, I am ashamed of the cowardly and unscientific approach of both countries to this virus.

157192 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Will, 2, #260 of 1997 🔗

The English-speaking countries appear to be especially bad. Odd.

156622 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Guirme, #261 of 1997 🔗

According to the BBC the Netherlands are introducing a 10 pm curfew https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-54331921

156627 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to p02099003, 1, #262 of 1997 🔗

According to the BBC, we reached the ;agonising’ worldwide 1m milestone’, worldwide!!

156656 ▶▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to p02099003, 3, #263 of 1997 🔗

And people still say this isn’t a conspiracy

156739 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to 6097 Smith W, 3, #264 of 1997 🔗

Taking of conspiracies: I’ve just been reading Mercola.com and am somewhat worried by this, given that Boris has actually mentioned Bill Gates in recent speeches:
Cryptocurrency System Based on Human Body Activity
Shiva (Vandana Shiva) goes on to review a patent granted to Microsoft the last week of March 2020 , for a cryptocurrency system based on human body activity . Everything from brain activity and body fluid flows to organ activity and various muscle movements is to be used to mine for cryptocurrency in this system.
Coincidentally, the number on this patent is 060606. Remove the zeros and you end up with the ill-fated number “666,” which also happens to show up in the monstrously unconstitutional U.S. surveillance bill H.R. 6666 .

“The patent is an intellectual property claim over our bodies and minds,” Shiva writes . 25 “In colonialism, colonizers assign themselves the right to take the land and resources of indigenous people, extinguish their cultures and sovereignty, and in extreme cases exterminate them.

Patent WO 060606 is a declaration by Microsoft that our bodies and minds are its new colonies. We are mines of ‘raw material’ — the data extracted from our bodies.

Rather than sovereign, spiritual, conscious, intelligent beings making decisions and choices with wisdom and ethical values about the impacts of our actions on the natural and social world of which we are a part, and to which we are inextricably related, we are ‘users.’ A ‘user’ is a consumer without choice in the digital empire.”

Ultimately, Gates’ vision, Shiva says, includes the colonization of our children’s minds and bodies “before they even have the opportunity to understand what freedom and sovereignty look and feel like.” To this end, Gates is working on reinventing education.

“The dystopia is one where children never return to schools, do not have a chance to play, do not have friends. It is a world without society, without relationships, without love and friendship,” she writes.

Indeed, the COVID-19 lockdowns and social distancing rules have repeatedly been referred to as “the new normal.” If the technocrats get their way, there will essentially be three kinds of people in the world: The uber-rich top echelon to whom rules don’t apply, digital slaves, and disposables — people who have no value in this new digital empire. If this doesn’t sound like the life we want to live, we must, as Shiva proposes, resist. And we must start now.

I’m reminded of UK column from early May, when they said their information was that the government wanted all schools to close permanently – the above sounds all-too-like the same plan…

156918 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Carrie, 1, #265 of 1997 🔗

That’s what they want. A Google standardised education for all global citizens. Human augmented Cyborgs, on the grid from birth with no ability to opt out.

156966 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Two-Six, 3, #266 of 1997 🔗

It’s truly horrifying, especially now Boris has openly said Bill Gates is working with the UK..

156927 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Carrie, #267 of 1997 🔗


157442 ▶▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Carrie, #268 of 1997 🔗

Yes very worrying. Dr Mercola’s articles are always spot on, very well researched.

156624 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Guirme, 27, #269 of 1997 🔗

Went to a regular cafe on the beach yesterday, having been away for 1 week and was told, no can’t sit there,have to join the queue to be shown a seat and table service, no queue and was told to sit in the marquee thing they’ve erected, No I said, well would you like to sign in then, so afraid to say I had a melt down which resulted in me storming out but looking in disgust at those already complying. Walked 2 miles along the beach to another cafe, completely different, no rules and after ordering at the counter, asked where was I sitting. Its completely mad and crazy.

156644 ▶▶ FlynnQuill, replying to Guirme, 12, #270 of 1997 🔗

Good for you, I’m envious. Unfortunately I live in the North East of England and we are being hit hard by the latest round of authoritarianism from our Government. We were booked in to a restaurant this coming Saturday for a table of four, my wife, sister and brother in law. Now, that has to be cancelled as we are from different households. Even though the restaurant will be full of people we don’t know (or will it), the absolute madness of it all is turning me insane.

156671 ▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to FlynnQuill, 8, #271 of 1997 🔗

Why are you going to obey this law?

156933 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to FlynnQuill, 2, #272 of 1997 🔗

Why did you tell them who was in your party. You could of just had one person put their “name” down and +3

156705 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Guirme, 12, #273 of 1997 🔗

Steady on. I think the Spaniards might have something to say about your comments. They have a bona fide claim to be being the stupidest and most subservient nation in Europe. They do all the things the UK does plus:

  • Wear masks religiously on the streets
  • Police measures with a zeal the Gestapo would have been proud of (9000 arrests and 1.2 million fines, and that’s just by June )
  • Have absolutely no dissenting voices in the media or from politicians
  • Force every child from age 6 upwards to wear a mask all day in school

But the UK is almost certainly in the top 2.

156720 ▶▶▶ Guirme, replying to stewart, 8, #274 of 1997 🔗

Fair point Stewart; it seems we are in a stupidity contest with Spain, although as I live in Scotland there isn’t much in it. Incidentally just enjoyed an excellent mask free breakfast and we are about to head in to the mask free town to enjoy some mask free shopping. We are trying to overdose on freedom to tide us over the dark days ahead when we return to the UK. At least we will be reunited with other family members, or is that banned as well?

156870 ▶▶ annie, replying to Guirme, 2, #275 of 1997 🔗

Stay in Haarlem andI wish I could join you!

156900 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Guirme, 1, #276 of 1997 🔗

I went there once.

156619 TJN, replying to TJN, 5, #277 of 1997 🔗

When regulars stop posting on here I often wonder what’s become of them – that’s social media for you.

But does anyone know what has happened to Wendy?

Maybe I’ve missed something, but I haven’t seen anything from her for ages. She seemed to get so much support from being on here, and clearly was going through a tough time with her Dad in a care home.

156695 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to TJN, #278 of 1997 🔗

I’m sure I saw something with her name on it this morning. Unless it’s a different Wendy of course.

156741 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 1, #279 of 1997 🔗

Wendyk posts regularly, but I guess there’s no connection.

157490 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to TJN, 1, #280 of 1997 🔗

No, I’m a different Wendy

156621 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 1, #281 of 1997 🔗

Interesting pie chart <1% of positive tests in prisons.

I assume prisoners are locked up for most of the day as households, care homes (worse probably in care homes, prisoners probably treated more humanly) and school children are.

Then again I don't suppose prisoners are having multiple tests, same goes for police and army?? which goes to show what a joke (at our expense) it all is.

Further to my post yesterday, surely hospitality staff have to be exempt from downloading the app as they will be on permanent lockdown. A valid question??

156632 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to stefarm, #282 of 1997 🔗

I heard that about the police, no downloading or no police

156625 RyanM, replying to RyanM, #283 of 1997 🔗

Your pizza huts have ice cream??

156628 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to RyanM, 2, #284 of 1997 🔗

Self service ice cream. Or at least used to, thank you Mr Hang Cock

156650 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to RyanM, 1, #285 of 1997 🔗

Yes, all you can eat too!

156689 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to RyanM, #286 of 1997 🔗

Yep and if you have it together with the lunch buffet you only have to pay a token amount.

156633 Now More Than Ever, replying to Now More Than Ever, 11, #287 of 1997 🔗

A little more optimistic this morning than I have been for a while. Nearly all front pages of MSM taking a questioning, if not openly hostile, stance on the latest draconian incursions (or at any rate, the manner in which they were introduced). I had three conversations yesterday with colleagues who until now have been passive but who are now waking up.

At least, if the government doesn’t change tack (and I don’t think it will), I think there are growing signs that popular consent is being withheld.

156666 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Now More Than Ever, 1, #288 of 1997 🔗

But, we ask, how can we change things?
By writing to our MP, to our local newspapers, by organising locsll demos like Querdenken.

156726 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Silke David, 3, #289 of 1997 🔗

‘By writing to our MP’ – ha ha ha! Been there, done that (repeatedly) – totally ignored or form reply, grovellling to their party bosses.

If only we had a democracy!

156723 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Now More Than Ever, 1, #290 of 1997 🔗

I would keep my eye on the main TV channels. They drive the narrative.
Nobody reads newspapers.

156767 ▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to stewart, #291 of 1997 🔗

Though often tv channels take their lead from newspapers

156635 Hester, replying to Hester, 2, #292 of 1997 🔗

Sorry but I had to laugh at the extract from the mail. Trendy Mosley!twirling around to brass bands!As a native Brummie Ithink I can say without upsetting the residents of Mosley it’s about as trendy as a pair of old mans big underpants. And where did the brass band come from? Presumably the salli army was out having an early Christmas practice. I haven’t laughed as much since the Telegraph said Wheeley castle in Brum was the go to destination for affluent Londoners to move to.
I do wonder if these journalists ever step outside their london ivory towers. Still a bit of lightness in these very dark times.

156645 ▶▶ bucky99, replying to Hester, #293 of 1997 🔗

If give Moseley a little more credit than that, to be fair. Weoley Castle, a little less…

156639 FlynnQuill, replying to FlynnQuill, 25, #294 of 1997 🔗

Uplifting speech by Sir Desmond Swayne. He was absolutely bang on with everything he said, especially his put down over Sweden. Hopefully this speech will give other MPs the balls and stand up for the freedom of this nation. However I feel it may be too little too late.

156867 ▶▶ annie, replying to FlynnQuill, 2, #295 of 1997 🔗

I emailed my support and got a brief message of thanks. Nice to get that, considering how many messages he must get. My own zombie MP hasn’t bothered to reply at all.

156969 ▶▶▶ Adamb, replying to annie, 1, #296 of 1997 🔗


156647 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 3, #297 of 1997 🔗

I was saying to the wife by the end of this week you’ll start to see the real cracks due to:

Whatever happens with the vote – I don’t think it will be much of a change but you never know.
The 4 weeks notice period – some places probably won’t even do this

And from Mike Graham’s show yesterday:

1st Oct is the introduction of eviction powers – premises have 14 days from then to pay up to 6 months of rent in arrears

156662 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to mhcp, 2, #298 of 1997 🔗

Wonder what the stats are when it came to rent collection for this cycle. I remember reading that it was 9 out of 10 premises were unable to pay back in June. I can imagine it has remained the same or gotten worse.

156652 Biker, replying to Biker, #299 of 1997 🔗

You’ve got to laugh when the tedious Brendan O’Neil is complaining about the opposition to the virus lie while defending a lunatic like Bill Gates. People like O’Neil really bug the shit out of me. He’s watched a couple of Christopher Hitchens videos and thought i can do that not realising that he can’t. The man says nothing original ever. Never heard a word of his that someone else hasn’t said before him and now he’s here saying don’t believe there is a one world government that has imposed itself on the planet and now we’ve to behave how they say. He’s just another company man pretending to not be. If you trust him then no doubt you’re as thick as that Labour MP making Pizza jokes about people losing their jobs or maybe it’s a conspiracy and we have some Labour Common Purpose dude talking about Pizza when we all know what that means. Off course O’Neil will say that Pizza Gate is a conspiracy and ignore the evidence because he’s a lying piece of shit, just like that MP. I’m tired of all the fevered little ego’s to stupid to know that those of us who can think can see through them as easily as looking at the nights sky.. It’s hopeless. What we have is the vast majority of people dumber than a fucking Donkey voting for people just as dumb as them. This whole episode has exposed that almost everyone is braindead. I don’t know why i’m surprised when there are billions stillbelieving in gods and billions more believing in plastic shite and pizza shops. It is a curse to be born smarter and wiser than almost everyone. Off course some of you will think i’m conceited or as thick as them but it’s as clear as a sunrise on a clear and crisp winter morning that Humanity is fucked because of stupid people. Remember people voted Boris because they thought a fat cunt like him was smart because he’s got a posh voice and knows his way round a Greek Classic and can quote John Locke or David Hume.
Maybe stupidity is evolutionary and this march to the destruction of our lives will result in billions dying and therefore saving us from polluting the planet to death. So i look forward to everyone in Africa being culled first which is what is happening now. Then we’ll laugh and joke while the Arabs are all killed off, after all Africans and Arabs are the dumbest motherfuckers around and will be powerless to stop what is coming.Once they’re gone we’ll be four billion people less in one go leaving four billion of us left. However that’s still to many so we’ll have to see a lot of India and South America destroyed to so that’ll take another two billion. Once we’re at two billion we’ll be able to sustain the slow destruction of the planet with fossil fuels until we use them all. After which we’ll return to the days of yore where the lucky people alive at the time can live back on this planet without the need for government. Free again like the birds in a tree or the fish in the sea or bees in a hive, it will be a pleasure to be alive.

156752 ▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Biker, #300 of 1997 🔗

what is all this about pizza?

156821 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sophie123, #301 of 1997 🔗

It’s a code word used in paedophilia..

156842 ▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to Sophie123, #302 of 1997 🔗

Look up the documentary “Pedogate 2020” by Mouthy Buddha, on YouTube or BitChute if YT has yanked it.

156868 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Sophie123, 2, #303 of 1997 🔗

Don’t look into because once you go full Pizza there is no going back. What will happen is you’ll see how fucked we are and it might destroy your life. That’s why i don’t give a fuck and just enjoy myself, well i’ve always been that way but the Pizza shit expose the whole game. They want you to see it. These people are no different that Aztec people who rip the hearts out of people to keep the sun rising everyday. It’s worse than horrific and anyone who says it’s nonsense is either one of them or stupid and since most people are dumb all over you can’t tell which.

156955 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Biker, 1, #304 of 1997 🔗

yep going Full Pizza will change your world view.

156856 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Biker, 4, #305 of 1997 🔗

I never quite understand why there is universal support from left and right wing media that Bill Gates is beyond criticism – and anyone who remotely questions his or his Foundation’s ethics and business practices is attacked as a ‘conspiracy theorist’. I can only assume MSM journalists are controlled opposition.

Brendan O’Neil is the editor of Spiked but clearly seems to want it to be only a slightly edgier version of MSM – OffGuardian is much more authentic and uncontrolled.

156952 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Darryl, 2, #306 of 1997 🔗

Yes, especially as he is on camera saying he wants to change our DNA… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksEVaO806Oo&feature=youtu.be

157551 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Biker, #307 of 1997 🔗

Everything went downhill after the Paleolithic.

156653 Ovis, replying to Ovis, 16, #308 of 1997 🔗

University vice-chancellors talking about their actions to make us ‘Covid safe’ have the same nervous look, the same crack in the voice, as Whitty and Vallance when about to present their graph. It says ‘How am I ever going to escape accountability for this?’

156673 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Ovis, 8, #309 of 1997 🔗

How can I keep my preposterous salary and pension?

156758 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 11, #310 of 1997 🔗

Are businesses finally working out that by enforcing the restriction of freedoms they are destroying themselves? I suspect a lot of people have been thinking that if all competing businesses are made to do the same thing, the net effect is neutral. And we see this with businesses gamely ploughing on as though they think that the public have no choice e.g. restaurants thinking that as long as all restaurants force their customers into muzzles, the customers will keep coming. But they won’t, of course. Ditto the students. Who will pay £9000 to do an online course while trapped in a prison-like cell?

All but a minority of businesses will die – people will even cut their own hair to avoid the humiliation of having to make an appointment, wear a mask, get their temperature taken, etc. Even those customers who say they approve of the restrictions will, in their actions, demonstrate that they’d rather stay in their own cocoon of sanity at home.

Not that this wasn’t obvious to us from day one. But maybe everyone else is just beginning to cotton on.

156789 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #311 of 1997 🔗

Unfortunately I don’t see any signs that businesses and institutions like the National Trust have really woken up and I think its precisely what you say – they think we have no choice. Or are capitalising on the idea that people will be so desperate to eat out or see an exhibition or watch a show.

However they don’t seem to realise that while many people will boycott out of principle those who gamely prebook their visits, wear the muzzles and leave their details in order to eat out or visit a stately home will come to the conclusion that its not worth it to go through this rigmarole and not bother to do another visit or booking.

Some people are waking up. But if businesses and institutions do, it will be too late.

They have to make a choice now – fight back against this insanity or be annihilated.

156829 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #312 of 1997 🔗

I’ve written to a few saying I won’t be coming back until this is all over, so they know why they have lost my business.

156858 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Julian, 3, #313 of 1997 🔗

The National Trust has lost my membership subscription. Permanently. I have told them why.

156953 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Julian, 1, #314 of 1997 🔗

Ditto. And from June 2021, I cease to be a member of the National Gallery.

157012 ▶▶▶▶ Alan P, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #315 of 1997 🔗

I’m cutting my own hair. Saved an estimated £100 so far.

156699 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Ovis, 2, #316 of 1997 🔗

Given our already precarious finances how do we get out or avoid paying out when the inevitable legal action comes from the students and their parents?

156855 ▶▶ annie, replying to Ovis, 2, #317 of 1997 🔗


156655 tonys, replying to tonys, 17, #318 of 1997 🔗

BBC headline this morning; world Covid deaths have topped One million, no attempt at context just pure hyperbole, which if not intended directly to stoke fear is at best totally irresponsible journalism. They really are a shocking bunch, what percentage of the global population is one million ? It might help the people who pay you if you tell them.

156663 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to tonys, 16, #319 of 1997 🔗

Pity they didnt mention the 1.2 million children expected to die as a result of the world’s response to the virus and the many more propelled into abject poverty. No worries regarding 1.5 million yearly deaths from TB, similar malaria, then poor sanitation … as usual there is only one disease. Interesting that they are now moving to world statistics as obviously national ones aren’t scary enough.

156672 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Nsklent, 5, #320 of 1997 🔗

Annual Global Deaths (as near as I can tell)

1.6M Tuberculosis
1.4M Pneumonia (<5years old)
0.7M Flu
3.0M Tobacco
3.0M Alcohol
1.4M Vehicle
0.8M Suicide
0.5M Homicide

Malaria deaths likely to rise as a result of the panic.

156731 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 3, #321 of 1997 🔗

If you want a really big number to compare for effect, put the number of abortions on there (about 40 million per year).

156995 ▶▶▶▶ Alan P, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 2, #322 of 1997 🔗

40 million from pneumonia per annum. Source: Wikipedia.

157120 ▶▶▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #323 of 1997 🔗

So you ask yourself, why would any sensible person not see these figures and think “hold on, something fishy going on here, I’m more likely to die in a car crash than of Covid, may be I should stop going in cars and stop wearing a damn muzzle!”. Someone order me to get off my arse reading all this and getting more stressed, let’s face it we should be used to being ordered around by now.

157836 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #324 of 1997 🔗

Just leaned that in Germany in the last 4 months 4thousand people died in household accidents, 427 “of” Covid.

156681 ▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to Nsklent, 3, #325 of 1997 🔗

Out of the 44 million deaths worldwide so far this year. So just over 2%. Disgraceful again from the BBC but wouldn’t expect anything else.

156670 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to tonys, 2, #326 of 1997 🔗

1m worldwide, out of 7,7 billion, you just hope more people are getting more clued up

156687 ▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to Dan Clarke, 8, #327 of 1997 🔗

A lot of people don’t know how many millions make up a billion. They have no idea what the world population is. They have no idea what the UK population is and they have no idea of annual deaths from other causes. They just have no idea period.

156745 ▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Hubes, 3, #328 of 1997 🔗

This is true. I read a book once called “The Perils of Perception” (it’s on amazon), all about how people’s perceptions are skewed by lack of understanding of context and MSM output.

But it turned out, that there was nothing wrong with my perception. I had a pretty good idea what percentage of people were immigrants in my country, were overweight, had diabetes….all these things. Why are some people immune to this and others so susceptible? it’s clearly not intelligence or education as a lot of people I had considered quite bright have been totally suckered on this occasion.

I think having an instinctive feel for numbers helps. I just have a sense of when sums add up, without really being sure why.

156824 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Hubes, 2, #329 of 1997 🔗

Indeed and neither did I until this started, at which point I decided to get myself better informed Baffled as to why lots of supposedly intelligent people with time on their hands (my ex-friends) have not bothered – guess they have very little regard for their own freedom, that of their families, and for mine, and they don’t seem to me to be actually ALIVE.

Also much blame must go to the media for not providing that perspective, as is their duty.

157002 ▶▶▶▶▶ Alan P, replying to Julian, 1, #330 of 1997 🔗

Laziness. As someone who had a career in planning and forecasting for 40+ years, I’m not surprised at the low level of number literate people. Even in the company I worked for many senior managers could not grasp basic level stats and put them into context. Bit like our government ministers now!

156774 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to tonys, 5, #331 of 1997 🔗

The BBC make me want to vomit. Why should a ’round number’ be a subject for a massive news headline? It’s just pathetic.

Somehow they imagine that people are standing round water coolers saying to each other “Just imagine, Doris. One million. The BBC says it’s reached o n e m i l l i o n . That’s ten to the power six. One million… A one followed by six zeros. I’ll never forgive Boris for this. And Trump. I had a bad feeling when it topped nine hundred thousand that the next milestone was the Big One. A million…. (whistles)… one… million. But in my heart of hearts I never really thought this day would come. Now it’s here… I’m feeling a bit faint. Doris, just help me sit down in the corner. It’s all too much…”

156660 Gracie Knoll, replying to Gracie Knoll, 17, #332 of 1997 🔗

From the main page today:

“Another Conservative MP who had some forceful words for the Government was Pauline Latham (Mid Derbyshire): “There are many pensioners who wish to see their family rather than live a long life. They would like to be able to make that choice.”

Yes, well said, BUT….BUT….

This assumes that if old folk see their family, their lives are guaranteed to be shortened! And this is nonsense; the latest CDC stats show the over 70s have a 99.74 chance of full recovery if infected. Now in the very elderly with comorbidities this figure will be substantially less, but it’s definitely NOT a case of “if you hug your grandkids, you will die.”

Why is certain death from this infection automatically assumed?

156668 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Gracie Knoll, #333 of 1997 🔗

I heard this was because of care home Insurance and risk. Not so with sheltered homes for the elderly. My 2 80+ aunts both in this sort of accommodation, have continued with their independant lives, visiting and being visited, its very sad what’s happening when money comes into it.

156736 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Gracie Knoll, 3, #334 of 1997 🔗

But the Fuhrer said that my cough could be someone else’s death. Why would our beloved Fuhrer say something if it wasn’t for our own good?

156946 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Gracie Knoll, 1, #335 of 1997 🔗

A 73 year old male friend of mine has had it and survived – he has the antibodies to prove it!

157138 ▶▶ James Bertram, replying to Gracie Knoll, #336 of 1997 🔗

just got it! (I’m a bit slow).
On my way to the book repository.

156664 Dan Clarke, 8, #337 of 1997 🔗

Friend of mine in the world of science, showed me a small petri dish with billions of germs on it and then how the germs see a muzzle, rather like a fishing net with massive holes they can swim through, so he said that’s why they changed the dialogue to stopping ‘droplets’ which soak into the muzzle during surgery.

156665 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 4, #338 of 1997 🔗

Often I bang on about the critical pillar in the scientific method: measurement. And how you need to make sure you are measuring the thing you say you are measuring. That requires strict definitions of the thing you measure. Otherwise you exagerate and often measure noise.

So put it another way:

If we had used the same loose attribution of symptoms of Covid, and the various contradictory paths of attributing Covid (i.e neg test but symptoms = Covid, pos test, no symptoms = Covid) BUT we applied to the FLU…

How many excess deaths in bad years would we have registered?

500,000 maybe?

156849 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to mhcp, 4, #339 of 1997 🔗

It’s a great point. But the Covid credulous would shout at you “It’s not just flu. How dare you even suggest that it’s the same as just flu! I know of at least three people who know someone who know someone who has died of Covid! And someone else who’s got Long Covid and even three months later sometimes feels a bit tired. Try telling HIM it’s just flu! You inhuman b*stard…!”

156989 ▶▶▶ Alan P, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #340 of 1997 🔗

Wish I had a pound for every time I got that exact same response to my scepticism on the shitshow. I’d be richer than Bill Gates!

157096 ▶▶▶ John Galt, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #341 of 1997 🔗

Haha, it’s always appeals to emotion with them, isn’t it? The way to combat this isn’t to say “well x amount of figures and y amount of percentages”, because they mentally cannot comprehend that. Appeal to their emotion as well. Talk about how many people have died of cancer over the same period of time. How suicides have sharply risen because of lockdown. How the equivalent of 500 million jobs have been lost globally and what that will do to people.

156678 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #342 of 1997 🔗

1,000000 die of CV:Cue: “Armageddon,end of times,we’re all going to die, etc”
What is the population of the world?(in billions)

156685 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #343 of 1997 🔗

7 billion.
between 1 & 4 million died in the 1968 Hong Kong flu pandemic
over a million in the 1958 Asian flu pandemic

156694 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to p02099003, 1, #344 of 1997 🔗

Don’t let the truth spoil a good story.

156716 ▶▶▶ Smelly Melly, replying to p02099003, 3, #345 of 1997 🔗

Not forgetting the world population in 1968 was half of what it is today.

156818 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Smelly Melly, 2, #346 of 1997 🔗

And much less in 1958
Adjusted for population, those two pandemics were WAY more deadly than this one

156690 ▶▶ Happy in the Haze, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #347 of 1997 🔗

1.5 million die of TB every year

156697 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Happy in the Haze, #348 of 1997 🔗

I refer you to the reply that I gave to p02099003.

156717 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Happy in the Haze, 4, #349 of 1997 🔗

Yep, that b’stard Tony Blair has a lot to answer for!

156770 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Happy in the Haze, 2, #350 of 1997 🔗

1.5 million children die of diarrhea – a disease of poverty – expect that to go up as 400 million of the worlds poorest have been made unemployed

156724 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #351 of 1997 🔗

And of course the deaths are not necessarily dying of covid.. wasnt the “from covid” death figure for the uk around 4000. And assume a lot of overcounting in USA

156773 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to mjr, 4, #352 of 1997 🔗

covid is a complicating factor in deaths of old age. nobody dies ‘of’ covid. Its a cold

156682 nickbowes, 2, #353 of 1997 🔗

Local lockdowns :- are these being policed as well as quarantine back from France ?
In my area (Durham) we are now not able to mix households, don t know the small print (or barcode) as i avoid the news now, but i have 3 households to rely on in me getting to work and paying into the "holy" NHS funds. Mine, my ex s and my parents who collect my little girl from school so i can work.

Is it a case of family bubbles being legal as was back in April ? `

156684 NorthumbrianNomad, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 19, #354 of 1997 🔗

“1 million dead!” tolls the DT, channeling the WHO in doom mongering mode today (tomorrow will be “rays of hope“… it’s how the gaslighting works)

“8 billion still hanging on,” retorts NorthumbrianNomad.

156714 ▶▶ Templeton, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 1, #355 of 1997 🔗

Would be interesting to know how many people have died from other diseases/virus in the same 7 months.

156982 ▶▶▶ Alan P, replying to Templeton, 1, #356 of 1997 🔗

40 Million deaths from pneumonia every year globally, out of 400 million “cases”. And the WHO are ramping up Covid because…..

156722 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 8, #357 of 1997 🔗

57 million people per annum die in the world and so 1 million covid deaths represents 1.75% of world annual deaths.
The sort of effect you might get from a nasty touch of flu.

156813 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #358 of 1997 🔗

To be strictly fair, deaths this year are running at 43,885,000 so far: https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/
So we’re currently at 2.27%. It might finish up at something like 2.5%. Hardly the catastrophic global threat that was predicted.

156851 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Julian, 2, #359 of 1997 🔗

You forgot that here the figures are with,not of coronavirus.I expect it is the same in many places.
The official figures are not accurate

156874 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #360 of 1997 🔗

Yes indeed – to give a true measure of the impact you’d need to compare to all-cause mortality globally, adjusted for population, over the last few decades. Pretty sure if you did that, it wouldn’t look like much out of the ordinary. I have struggled to find decent figures for global mortality.

156871 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Julian, #361 of 1997 🔗

2.5% you say? The UK government found the false positive rate for PCR tests to be “a median of 2.3%”. It’s obvious that a lot of ‘Covid deaths’ were really from other causes, but every gravely ill person has routinely been tested…

156693 peter, replying to peter, -16, #362 of 1997 🔗

Who gives a crap what idiot for rent Brendan O’Neill thinks about anything. Toby is relentless in dishing up daily shills on this site. Birds of a feather….
No wonder this site has achieved nothing except provide Intel to our enemies.

156783 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to peter, 11, #363 of 1997 🔗

Actually I find this site to be helpful for the most part. I’m sure I’m not the only one who thinks this.

156805 ▶▶ Julian, replying to peter, 5, #364 of 1997 🔗

What is O’Neill saying that you find so objectionable?

In what way is he a shill?

I tend not to worry a great deal about what TY posts – some of it I agree with and find interesting, other parts less so. That’s life. Same with the comments.

As for achieving things, it’s a useful source of ideas and information, and place to test arguments, let off steam and feel like you’re not the only person in the world that hasn’t gone mad. I think it would be hard to measure what it had achieved, but you could say the same about most sites of this nature – if the objective is changing people’s minds, how would you measure that? Are there alternative sites you could recommend that have achieved more?

Regarding giving intel to our enemies, any public site where sceptic ideas are discussed would do that, were they to look (doubt they are but may be wrong). In any case, the arguments are what they are – there’s really very little that is new, and new arguments e.g. false positives need to be made public to have any effect, so I am not sure I get the point about intel.

156882 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Julian, 4, #365 of 1997 🔗

Agree, Lockdownsceptics has provided many useful sources and links over the past few months when the mainstream media has been united behind the establish cause of taking away all our freedoms. There are also very few sceptical forums.

Brendan O’Neil has at least provided some opposition to lockdowns and government overreach in radio interviews and on Spiked and the Spectator – don’t quite get his snobbery and distain for ‘conspiracies’ when so many have been proven correct in the past. The World Economic Forum is trying to reshape the world it is on their website clear as anything and promoted by Prince Charles and the UN – but I am sure Brendan would still say that is a conspiracy.

156937 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Darryl, 3, #366 of 1997 🔗

Yes, would Prince Charles really be allowed to spout conspiracy theories??? And more than once?

Mind you, I thought the royals were not allowed to be involved in politics??!!

The media are all over Harry and Meghan and their netflix show, but what Prince Charles says is not being broadcast… why not?
When the Queen makes a speech, the BBC and other media show it and it makes the papers.

Is the lack of publicity for Prince Charles and global reset because it reveals the bigger agenda behind CV19?

157201 ▶▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Carrie, 2, #367 of 1997 🔗

The sad truth is we are incredibly controlled by those in power and we are allowed a few token mainstream ‘journalists’ as controlled opposition – they moan about relatively minor issue (however still comply) but stay completely silent on the bigger issue which really matter such as UN Agenda 2021 and 2030 and the World Economic Forum ‘Great Reset’.

Most people aren’t willing to accept this because it shatters everything they have believed their entire lives.

156859 ▶▶ Biker, replying to peter, -3, #368 of 1997 🔗

I’m with you peter, can’t stand the prick, and as far as toby goes there is no hope with this dude, same goes for Dellingpole. How depressing is it to hear Peter Hitchens instead of Christopher Hitchens. That to me is torture

156883 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to peter, 2, #369 of 1997 🔗

Brendan O’Neill’s great talent is for finding the angle to insert the skewer into someone else’s hypocritical or malformed argument.

Just been flipping through his articles at Spiked:

(you can keep loading more and more)

What’s not to like?

157237 ▶▶ TJN, replying to peter, 4, #370 of 1997 🔗

As far as I recall, Brendon O’Neill was the first journalist to call out the police for some of their actions in enforcing the lockdown – drones bugging walkers etc.

The Spectator, 27 March, ‘Derbyshire police should leave those dog walkers alone’ ( quote : ‘We have to be vigilant about the spread of Covid-19. And we have to be vigilant about the spread of authoritarianism’).

And week earlier, 20 March, in The Spectator he penned ‘ The closure of pubs makes this a dark day for Britain’ ( quote : ‘This is a dark day for the UK. Fight Covid-19, yes, but don’t kill freedom in the process’).

Saying things like that wasn’t fashionable back then (unlike now, when it’s easy). So I’ll tip my hat to him.

156708 Jim Binks, 7, #372 of 1997 🔗

Quote in this at the end of the piece, 9 mins approx sums up whats going on at the moment. Worth watching all of the clip. Sky news Australia has been great at challenging the utter rubbish that governments have been coming out with over the last few months. If only our own MSM had been as brave.


156715 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 8, #373 of 1997 🔗

I’m putting this together a little hurriedly so excuse any errors.

This morn on the news some local councillor in the N.E. said very sadly a ban on friends meeting in tea shops and pubs had to be accepted because cases were rocketing.

Rocketing and how! In Newcastle they have gone from 4 at the end of August to 107 (as of the 21st September (these are 7 days averages). The peak in the first wave was 42 on April 4th.

The rise in hospital admissions are not so steep. These are the figures for the N.E. and Yorkshire (don’t have them for Newcastle). End of August 11 – 23rd September 89 a steady increase which might now be flattening. (The April peak was 294)

Here are the mortality figures for the N.E. They peaked on the 11th April, 49, fell to zero in the summer and on the 24th September they were 2. (7 day running averages again)

Figures come from:- https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk

Clearly much attention is being given to ‘cases’.

156728 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Ned of the Hills, 10, #374 of 1997 🔗

If it was not for testing I doubt that we would hardly notice anything was going on. It has stopped being about deaths and illness and is now just an academic exercise playing with numbers and people’s lives.

156779 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #375 of 1997 🔗

Look out for bumped up hospitalizations, they did this before but then the morbidity rate tanked.

156733 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Ned of the Hills, 6, #376 of 1997 🔗

these are not cases….. they are “tests that show a positive” . And the figures are meaningless without reference to the number of tests carried out (which we know are growing )
And hospital admissions are recording people admitted having had a positive test. Again meaningless .. we dont know if the admissions are people ill with covid. (probably not)

156756 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to mjr, 1, #377 of 1997 🔗

Yes, “cases” are clearly now determined very differently. But they are still being given there same weight as back in April by most politicians – local or national – it seems.

A good point on hospital admissions too.

No measure is certain I would say but that for “excess deaths” (terrible term) and that is no measure of how the virus is impacting because of “collateral damage” (another dread term.)

158242 ▶▶▶ ajb97b, replying to mjr, #378 of 1997 🔗

The hospital admission figures are for any and all causes of admission. Not at all necessarily related to covid. Plus they include as positives anyone who tested positive up to 14 days before admission. so its really just a surrogate number for the level of virus in society. It says nothing about covid illness as such

156776 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #379 of 1997 🔗

See the graphic from a couple of days ago, main page, shows ramped up testing finding cases now equalling figures from April-May but deaths still bumping along at less than a dozen a day.
Cases in April-May were people who were already seriously ill cases now are people who need testing before they even know they have the ‘terrible Pandemic’.

Remember Government message March “if you have symptoms don’t go to hospital or doctor, stay at home and if it gets bad telephone A&E. ie don’t bother us until you are at deaths door = March ‘cases’.

156908 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to karenovirus, #380 of 1997 🔗

Remember Government message March “if you have symptoms don’t go to hospital or doctor, stay at home and if it gets bad telephone A&E.

I wasn’t in England at the time so I didn’t know that.

“Cases” are clearly much a product of testing, and the product of that is unreliable.

158235 ▶▶ ajb97b, replying to Ned of the Hills, #381 of 1997 🔗

But the amount of testing has gone up >20 fold since the first wave peak. So today’s peak of 107 is really more like 5 in old money (vs 42 peak back then)

156730 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #382 of 1997 🔗

So the police have been told not to download the NHS t&t app.
Well, of course the virus recognizes “authority” when it sees it, doesn’t it?
Of course, its different for us naughty sceptics, isn’t it?

156737 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #383 of 1997 🔗

They would never be at work if they downloaded it, its biased towards a positive result, obviously

156740 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #384 of 1997 🔗

Yet again a two-tier system..

156757 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Fingerache Philip., #385 of 1997 🔗

I asked earlier, by what process or mechanism do they become excused Compliance?

156734 Templeton, replying to Templeton, 6, #386 of 1997 🔗

On the subject of data grabbing.
Called my doctors yesterday morning as my hip is buggered. Reception were very keen to get a mobile number (I dont usually give it out, email only) and I asked for my landline to be used. Super abrupt after that and recommended me to use their online service, as ultimately my injury will be referred to physio and you can self-refer.
Get online and surprise, you cant complete form without adding a mobile number.
Im in pain (had to call in sick to a job Ive only just gone back to), opted to complete it.
No response (though it takes 48-72 hours for a reply)
9pm last night….. text saying to download t&t app.

156753 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Templeton, 4, #387 of 1997 🔗

They will undoubtedly be on a bonus scheme for harvesting as many smart phone numbers as they can.

156763 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to karenovirus, 8, #388 of 1997 🔗

Can we get a lawyer onto this? Simon Dolan’s case is all about proportionality – it is in no way proportionate for the state to hold everyone’s mobile phone numbers..

Those people here who have unearthed an old mobile and SIM – let’s test and see how long it is before the authorities locate you and link you to that number… Should be easy to work out who has ‘sold’ you from now on, if it is a number you have not previously used..

157033 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Carrie, 1, #389 of 1997 🔗

it is not a secret.. the email i received from NHS Track and Trace on Saturday specifically mentioned that the email address came from my surgery. So if your surgery has a mobile number that will also be provided to T&T and you will get a text. I havent had a text and they have my number so maybe one is sent one or the other .
I have emailed the surgery to complain about this

156860 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Templeton, #390 of 1997 🔗

Sorry to hear that! Bit late now, but I would recommend attempting this by calling 112 and trying to make an appointment that way – just as another potential route in.

157437 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Templeton, 2, #391 of 1997 🔗

mmm what do people without mobile phones do? No access to healthcare?

156738 Basics, replying to Basics, 8, #392 of 1997 🔗

Posted last night – repost to reachthose who missed it.

Sinister words came out of elwood in parliament. He spoke of a country where some are vaccinated and therefore liberated while others are not vaccinated and still under restrictions. Super serious words.

See this tweet which encloses the transcript. https://twitter.com/frog_escalator/status/1310707812453015552?s=20

Sylvie reply:
Ellwood is on at 20.24 p.m.
You can watch Swayne, Chope, Drax, Steve Baker, Redwood etc all live. Rachel Hopkins on drastic and tragic effect of delays in cancer treatments., and on the statement that guidance has been changed today so humanist weddings can now have 15 guests, like every other wedding. ( mentioned by Stefarm, who wants one, earlier today).

156747 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, 4, #393 of 1997 🔗

elwood the bastard !

156751 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, #394 of 1997 🔗

Did anyone challenge Elwood?

156803 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 7, #395 of 1997 🔗

Yes, I had a name check, wedding is booked for this time next year. We won’t be having it under this regime and it’s not inconceivable our venue and caterers will go bust between now and then.

Shower of cunts in charge, although to be honest if we did postpone some of our nearest and dearest might actually wake the fuck up as it will have a direct impact on them.

I’ve had a few mutterings – but it’s a year away, my reply being you have signed your life away already, those in charge can drag this out for as long as they want.

156812 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Basics, 4, #396 of 1997 🔗

There is something quite unpleasant about Mr Ellwood that I cannot quite put my finger on. Suspect time will tell.

156826 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #397 of 1997 🔗

He is actually connected to the spying on Trump I believe..

I also believe it was no coincidence that he just happened to be in the vicinity when the Westminster bridge attack occurred..

156838 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Carrie, 3, #398 of 1997 🔗

Yeah funny that, was he there when the terrorist got back up again after being shot in the head

156848 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to stefarm, 4, #399 of 1997 🔗

That was the London Bridge one, I believe, where the ‘terrorist’ sat back up..haha!

I was referring to the Westminster bridge event, the ‘car speeding across the bridge’ one, where Elwood did CPR on a policeman – interestingly while a load of proper medics stood around him doing nothing. Suspicious!

157059 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Carrie, #400 of 1997 🔗

All bollocks ain’t it, say that to people and their eyes glaze over. The truth hurts!

156825 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Basics, 4, #401 of 1997 🔗

Every now and then the mask slips and they reveal their true intentions.
This is the plan,no vaccine no normal life.With vaccine you will be tracked and traced wherever you go.
This is our future unless we fight back

157436 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Basics, #403 of 1997 🔗

Yes that is the health passport

He spoke of a country where some are vaccinated and therefore liberated while others are not vaccinated and still under restrictions.

156742 Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #404 of 1997 🔗

Another unashamed repeat from last night before tge great migration to today. 17sec video might lift spirits.

The laughing stock that is channel four news and jon snow lost his temper today. Actually did. Because shit weasel hancock was smarming his was through yet another interview. Jon Snow gave him a blast.
You can see the incident here – 2.5 million people have already.


156746 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 1, #405 of 1997 🔗

It’s great, but is apparently an old interview – from March!

156760 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, 1, #406 of 1997 🔗

Thanks carrie. I thought it was from this weekend. If i could I woukd delete it. Jon snow remains a laughing stock. And I joing him .

156771 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Carrie, 3, #407 of 1997 🔗

Thanks Carrie, because I was wondering how Jon Snow suddenly did a U turn.
He has been a disgrace during this.

156769 ▶▶ anon, replying to Basics, 1, #408 of 1997 🔗

was this on the news last night? excuse my ignorance

156885 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to anon, 1, #409 of 1997 🔗

It deens my mistake. Looks as though it was from march, see Carrie’s comment. It came to me as though it was the past few days.

156744 Silke David, replying to Silke David, 4, #410 of 1997 🔗

https://contact-tracing.phe.gov.uk/help/privacy-noticeGeneral information about T&T on NHS covid19 Privacy Information

How long we keep your information
If you test positive for coronavirus, the personal information collected and used by the contact-tracing service will be kept by us for 8 years.

If you are a close contact of someone who tests positive, we will keep your personal information for 5 years .
It is possible over time that you may be a close contact of more than one person who has tested positive, so we may hold more than one record about you. We keep each of these records separately for 5 years.
We keep personal information for these lengths of time because we may need to contact you to help control local outbreaks of coronavirus that may occur in future. We also need to use personal information to monitor and analyse the epidemiology of coronavirus to help prevent it from spreading. For example, we use the personal information of people who test positive and their close contacts to help monitor reinfection and re-exposure rates for the virus

156750 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Silke David, 6, #411 of 1997 🔗

They want it for that long, because that is the likely timeframe for rolling out vaccinations and chips..

156748 Basics, replying to Basics, 76, #412 of 1997 🔗

Florida Govenor: Masks are no longer required anywhere in the state, and cities cannot fine people for not wearing one. Restaurants, bars and all other businesses can open at 100% full capacity. The state will not close again.

156765 ▶▶ anon, replying to Basics, 17, #413 of 1997 🔗

cheering news!

156768 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Basics, 8, #414 of 1997 🔗

Another place to add to the list

156775 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 14, #415 of 1997 🔗

Denmark now has the highest rate of cases of all the Nordic countries, but this is what their leader is saying:
“We will do everything we can to avoid a lockdown like the one we did in March, It was the right thing to do back then. It wouldn’t be the right thing to do again.’ Danish Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen.

Look at the graph!
Will be interesting to see how this one develops…

156798 ▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Carrie, 7, #416 of 1997 🔗

Numbers are flattening there as elsewhere in Western Europe. Only 28 ICU cases per Worldometer and very few fatalities.

156809 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Yawnyaman, 9, #417 of 1997 🔗

As mentioned by someone 3 hours ago all the BBC can harp on about is 1 million deaths worldwide but not in context= 1.7% of all deaths, normal for flu ffs.

156815 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Yawnyaman, 4, #418 of 1997 🔗

Hospitalisations here in Sweden are up again today, though not in huge numbers. Five of 21 regions now with more than 7 in hospital. A few more people in intensive care as well. Since this time last week there are now 19 more people in hospital in total, but remember some have also been discharged in that time.
But most regions have 7 or fewer people in hospital (in fact the majority have either 4, 2 or 1 person in hospital), none of whom are in intensive care, so the likelihood of many more deaths would currently seem to be low, given that most people do *not* end up moving from an ‘ordinary’ hospital bed into intensive care..

157068 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Carrie, 2, #419 of 1997 🔗

i.e. – normal for this time of year.

156792 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, 2, #420 of 1997 🔗


156804 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, 4, #421 of 1997 🔗

Good for them, all those NY gangsters can enjoy their retirement in peace.

156807 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Basics, 4, #422 of 1997 🔗

This is important if Trump is re-elected. DeSantis is a key Trump ally.

156836 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #423 of 1997 🔗

TT, are you following developments in the USA? Did you see the Project Veritas vote fraud investigation? Sky News Australia have picked it up and it’s also on the Project Veritas website..

156845 ▶▶ annie, replying to Basics, 10, #424 of 1997 🔗

I want to emigrate to Florida, via Sweden, with a detour to Tanzinia.

157246 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to annie, 7, #425 of 1997 🔗

Can I come with you? Sturgeonisms are doing my head in!

157064 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Basics, 2, #426 of 1997 🔗


158352 ▶▶ NappyFace, replying to Basics, 1, #427 of 1997 🔗

They will all be dead within a week. The crazy fools 😉

156788 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #429 of 1997 🔗

Thanks for posting that. It is interesting that the date of Tom Bower’s book publication is 15 October – corresponds with the supposed deadline set by Boris for a Brexit trade deal with the EU. Surely coincidental?

156755 Basics, replying to Basics, 7, #430 of 1997 🔗

Another knut-like repost two headlines in the Scotsman

Headline at the Scotsman

University students claim to have been left for days without food
University students have claimed they are being left without food for days while isolating due to the Covid-19 lockdown restrictions.

Resigster wall for more.

Also at the scotsman this!

Nicola Sturgeon says human rights issues outweighed by right to not get Covid-19
Nicola Sturgeon has said people’s human right not to be infected with a serious virus is more important than other human rights considerations.

Notice the weasel words.. ‘a serious virus’ ie ebola, covid is listed on the death cert of 17 scots under 45, 6 of ťhose female the last of whom died in May.

156777 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 12, #431 of 1997 🔗

She is the serious virus and she is infringing human rights.

Nearly all people in Scotlandstan are too fucking dim to realise and they put zero value on their freedom and right to live like humans.

156819 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, 6, #432 of 1997 🔗

They are coming round Stef. I am seeing signs in and out of tge lockdown realm that there is a significant pissedoffedness occurring. Criticise them of course for being utter dim jack assess with cult indoctrination in every deluded tgought tgey have. But signs from within independence are showing that snp is no longer a party they can stomach. There’s a return swing occuring. And the slient majority that always was there are starting to become irritated by the noises holyrood is making.

156833 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 3, #433 of 1997 🔗

Hope so, I’ve got a bottle of champagne in the fridge

156834 ▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to stefarm, 1, #434 of 1997 🔗

Well, asti

156962 ▶▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Basics, #435 of 1997 🔗
156790 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Basics, 2, #436 of 1997 🔗

Article 3 is absolute in any case and that covers enforced imprisonments etc.

156797 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Yawnyaman, 1, #437 of 1997 🔗

Which one covers banning compulsory medication?

156800 ▶▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to karenovirus, 2, #438 of 1997 🔗

That one, in certain cases at least.

156793 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to Basics, 12, #439 of 1997 🔗

Depression is more serious than this virus. Suicide is more serious than this virus. Good protect those poor students. Sturgeon is playing with fire here.

156796 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, 1, #440 of 1997 🔗

We’ll leave you to deal with her when the time comes, mostly peacefully of course 🤺

156766 Silke David, replying to Silke David, 3, #441 of 1997 🔗

Follow up to How long does NHS store data collected fom the App, I cannot find it now, but last night i saw some “reassuring” info that information stored in the App will delete after 21 days.
So after 21 days it will not remember any places you have been./checked into/ or phone numbers.
Hope that actually works. The servers holding this info supplied and run by Amazon.

Does anyone know, does the App work if Bluetooth is not on? I am sure it was discussed her, but cannot remember. Could not find any instructions on the website where they explain anything to remind people to switch on bluetooth.

156784 ▶▶ cloud6, replying to Silke David, 1, #442 of 1997 🔗

The APP stores your data in json files on your device, if you look at the code it appears to be a timestamp (arrival, no departure), there is a hash of hex, but do not know what this does? The data does not delete after 21 days, you have to delete it. You also have to have exposure notifications turned on to use the app or turned off (as you wish). If bluetooth is turned off the app will not work. If you are using IOS all this is simple to achieve.

156786 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Silke David, 1, #443 of 1997 🔗

As far as I know the data is supposed to be held on.your phone but I don’t trust them.

156787 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to Silke David, 3, #444 of 1997 🔗

Amazon will have nothing to do with whether the data is retained or not, that is entirely the responsibility of the client storing the data.

156949 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Recusant, 1, #445 of 1997 🔗

Amazon’s market share of worldwide cloud storage is about 33% . They have huge data farms all over the world.
AWS (Amazon Web Services) contributes 13% of Amazon total revenues (i.e $9 Billion of $70Billion revenue per quarter.)

156816 ▶▶ matt, replying to Silke David, 1, #446 of 1997 🔗

Hang on – an app based on either an Apple or a Google designed system is storing its data on AWS cloud servers? That sounds wrong.

156835 ▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to matt, #447 of 1997 🔗

In what way?

156886 ▶▶ fran, replying to Silke David, 1, #448 of 1997 🔗

I don’t have a smart phone so I don’t know exactly how it works but Bluetooth must be on. I assume that every time an app user passes by another person with the app there is a quick exchange of identification data between the two using the Bluetooth radio communication system.

So if for instance user ‘A’ has a busy life and perhaps in the course of a month has connected with say 100 others, and then user ‘A’ goes down with the virus, they access the app and confirm they have contracted covid19. If the data is only stored on their phone then the only way the 100 others can be notified is if user ‘A’s phone sends out a message in some form (text messages??) to all the 100 other phones. This must (presumably) use up some of their data allowance??

156931 ▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to Silke David, 2, #449 of 1997 🔗

The proximity function depends on Bluetooth being switched on.
Other functions of the app do not rely on Bluetooth.
The Wire give a comprehensive and eminently comprehensible overview: https://www.wired.co.uk/article/nhs-covid-19-tracking-app-contact-tracing

157063 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Silke David, 1, #450 of 1997 🔗

Why would you bother? Surely no-one here will download this app.

157862 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to RickH, #451 of 1997 🔗

I have no smart phone and no intention of using the app if I had, I was just wondering how it works. .

157432 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Silke David, #452 of 1997 🔗

Ha ha that will be the day.Many vested parties already downloaded this information for their use and then the original data will be deleted after 21 days.

156785 Basics, 3, #453 of 1997 🔗

On the UK Gov data grab. I revieved two boris wet you pants text messages at the start of all this. Days apart from one another. I thought tgey were spam/junk. Apparently at least one of them was real.

This time around I have been left in peace, so far.

156794 JohnMac, replying to JohnMac, 15, #454 of 1997 🔗

The Tory rebellion had better grow because there is likely to be a rather serious inquiry into all of this, and anyone who supports any further restrictions with regard to this virus will come in for some hair-raising levels of criticism.

Bearing in mind that the virus has long been, and remains, at a level when normally no-one would even know of its existence.

So anyone who wants their career to continue when this is all over had better start thinking hard.

156802 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to JohnMac, 8, #455 of 1997 🔗

Agree – just been listening to Julia H-B and she says that yet again some late new restrictions were announced last night, yet again not in Parliament…I believe the ones regarding singing, dancing and music?

The Tories *must* rebel over this flagrant misuse of SIs – Hancock has already been told off once by the Speaker for doing this kind of thing.

156806 ▶▶ Basics, replying to JohnMac, 5, #456 of 1997 🔗

I agree and well said. Reflect on their behaviours and conduct. Some will be cast off never to resurface in politics again and we shall be grateful for that. Some with any luck will be in a cell unable to harm our world further.

156817 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to JohnMac, 7, #457 of 1997 🔗

Problem is all our institutions seem to have been taken over by tyrants. How do we make them accountable. Local Councils, Police, the NHS, Universities, schools, courts, unions, etc etc

All on the surface appear more then happy to implement this totalitarian state on the basis of fabrication and lies.

156897 ▶▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to Saved To Death, 3, #458 of 1997 🔗

Some of them, especially local government, have long been peopled by the sort of inadequates who become petty tyrants at the drop of a hat. You only need to think of some of their egregious abuses of RIPA powers.

157153 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to TheOriginalBlackPudding, #459 of 1997 🔗

Its because all the senior local government Officers came from the polytechnics in the late 80s

156831 ▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to JohnMac, 7, #460 of 1997 🔗

No government has ever launched an enquiry that it doesn’t know the result of.

156843 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to James Leary #KBF, 2, #461 of 1997 🔗

It won’t be this government. More likely an international tribunal.

156844 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to James Leary #KBF, 1, #462 of 1997 🔗

I’m worried as to what went on at yesterday’s meeting with the Chief Whip…

157027 ▶▶▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to Carrie, 1, #463 of 1997 🔗

What happened?

156839 ▶▶ annie, replying to JohnMac, 3, #464 of 1997 🔗

I’ve told my useless muppet of an MP that.
I’m not sure he can actually read, though.

156986 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, #465 of 1997 🔗

Chaired by Mrs Mugabe 🤑

oops, Your previous comment

156862 ▶▶ cloud6, replying to JohnMac, #466 of 1997 🔗

? You have heard of the term “Smoke and Mirrors”, MP’s are experts on this.

157023 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to JohnMac, #467 of 1997 🔗

I sincerely hope you’re right, but…

157031 ▶▶ Mark, replying to JohnMac, 2, #468 of 1997 🔗

We certainly should be watching who votes which way tomorrow, and all MPs should know their vote will be noticed and remembered.

156801 FrankiiB, replying to FrankiiB, 7, #469 of 1997 🔗

Are surgical masks actually illegal in normal settings?

I read that surgical masks worn properly (which no one does), are meant for surgical theatres where the air is controlled. When worn elsewhere, in public, the air is not controlled and within 60 seconds the wearer is exposed to levels of CO2 which breach limits set for health and safety in the workplace.

Are there any experts here who can inform me?

156814 ▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to FrankiiB, 3, #470 of 1997 🔗

I’m not an expert, but another interesting fact about operating theatres:
“Special air handlers filter the air and maintain a slightly elevated pressure”

This may address the point that pro maskers make that theatre staff work with masks and don’t suffer from hypoxia.

156830 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Andy Riley, 1, #471 of 1997 🔗

I don’t think an elevated pressure has anything to do with helping people breath with masks on. More likely that’s just to help keep contamination out.

156876 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Saved To Death, 1, #472 of 1997 🔗

Probaby similar to how air coolant systems work to control dust with either negative or positive pressure.

However, surgical masks and surgaries are probably designed with a common set of technical requirements in mind and it’s a non-sequitor to assume that surgical masks will have the same behaviour outside of this environment than within.

156914 ▶▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Cicatriz, 2, #473 of 1997 🔗

The general public are miss using this equipment in every possible way so it does seem quite likely it will be doing more harm then good.

156971 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Andy Riley, 3, #474 of 1997 🔗

And in Surgery they don’t wear masks 8-10 hours at a time day after day unlike the poor shopworkers.

156811 Now More Than Ever, replying to Now More Than Ever, 1, #476 of 1997 🔗

Lufthansa is actually saying that it will not accept people wearing the wrong sort of masks.


Is this legal?

156828 ▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to Now More Than Ever, 3, #477 of 1997 🔗

Only when operating the aircraft ovens.

156822 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 11, #478 of 1997 🔗

weekly deaths stats out

939 Deaths where the underlying cause was respiratory disease
139 Deaths where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate

where’s the pandemic I have given up my freedoms for?

156840 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to steve_w, 5, #479 of 1997 🔗

139 in a week. Cancer is 450 a DAY.

156923 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sam Vimes, #480 of 1997 🔗

A fact that needs to be broadcast widely…

156957 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sam Vimes, #481 of 1997 🔗

500 a day this time next year. They closed the local oncology even though it was never used for ITU, still barely functioning now.

157050 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #482 of 1997 🔗

tragic story on Talk Radio yesterday afternoon . A lady with a rare and fatal liver cancer had just started an experimental treatment in February via NHS and it was cancelled in March. She is now having the treatment privately via crowdfunding.
Also covered in newspapers. This is the gofundme which explains

157058 ▶▶ RickH, replying to steve_w, 2, #483 of 1997 🔗

Now – here’s the secret (which our tribe of crap journalists won’t tell) – the term ‘pandemic’ doesn’t mean ‘serious’. It now just means ‘widespread’ – like the common cold.

156832 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 7, #484 of 1997 🔗

Listening to R4 in car this morning at about 8.54am… on it Dr David Navarro from WHO.

He is using our language against us. He talks about

“Learning to live with the virus”
But qualifies it as all of us changing behaviour, each of us taking the right actions so the virus is not spiralling out of control.

He acknowledged no more draconian measures so that we all have to decide to do the right thing (he basically meant we all make the choice to wear masks, distance etc.. and not one of us must not choose the wrong action).

Of course the insinuation is punishment if we “choose“ the wrong action. [parents will recognise the modern school diktat of “make the right choice”]

When the interviewer asked about more draconian measures, he was salivating and used the expression “yes, turning the screw”. So therein is the leak of language. The WHO recognises this as torture!

156850 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Country Mumkin, 6, #485 of 1997 🔗

Just reading your account listening to him makes me revulse. Who the fuck is that guy to tell me to do anything.
Choose to do the right action or else the bovva boys will be round.

Why does he not listen to me when I tell him what to choose.

156878 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Country Mumkin, 6, #486 of 1997 🔗

It is the World Death Organisation, and will not rest until every human being on the planet is wearing a mask 24/7. Then they will move in for the kill with their dodgy vaccine. That Johnson has now made the UK the top state donor to this mob of thugs and criminals tells me the UK is top of the list for complete annihilation.

156920 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Richard O, 1, #487 of 1997 🔗

I’m wondering if killing a lot of the UK population is how he is going to manage all this ‘rewilding’ that he goes on about, where 30% of the country will be open green spaces?

157044 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Carrie, 1, #488 of 1997 🔗

Zoonotic transmission, it will be THE NEW THING. Very scary.

157092 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Carrie, 4, #489 of 1997 🔗

I’m wild now. And dangerous. And I bite.
Let Wancock try to manage me.

156926 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Richard O, 1, #490 of 1997 🔗

It’s part of a broad pattern in British foreign policy. When Trump won, the UK became a sort of base in exile for the continuity Clintonites. Keeping the seat warm until Jan 2021. What happens to the planning of our mandarins if Trump wins again I don’t know. Probably just more of the same.

156930 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #491 of 1997 🔗

He qualified the ‘turning the screw’ by adding that it would be better if we changed our behaviour, All Of Us, leaving the turning screw hanging like a noose.

Yes ‘salivating’ is very apt, he was clearly enjoying his own importance.

157052 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #492 of 1997 🔗

He is entirely of the twat class and representative of the problem with the WHO.

The bottom line for the sane is the hard fact that, even given the sharp rise in mortality for a brief time in April – nothing much happened.

People like Nab(?)arro are terrified that we should just recognize that fact(and therefore their lack of credibility) and just get on with life as we have done with every other seasonal infection.

156837 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #493 of 1997 🔗

Good to see the MSM news actually posing some questions and being a bits sceptical last night and heartening to see all the anti-nattarive comments in the Daily Fail.

Heartening to see clips of MPs standing up with a bit of backbone for once, amazing how they grow a pair when their jobs are at risk.

156847 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #494 of 1997 🔗

If, and it’s a big if (to quote our CSA), you can convince them they will lose their seat, they will turn on a sixpence, no matter how vehement they’ve been in the past.

156913 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sam Vimes, #495 of 1997 🔗

Really? This long from a general election?

157038 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #496 of 1997 🔗

Indeed – but some might clock that they will at some time be faced with the question :

“And what did you do in the War ….?”

156846 Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #497 of 1997 🔗

2 minute of graphtastic action from across europe. Sent in to 10 Downing street by someone:

” I compiled the data from Worldometers on 16 European countries in regards to #COVID19 positive cases and how this translates to deaths. The pattern is consistent throughout. Be informed. Make informed opinions & decisions. https://t.co/semwTe1Mva

Sky Austrailia then scratch their heads about the exact same problem the tweet above does. Just what is going on with Europes seconds wave, it is very strange…


156863 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, #498 of 1997 🔗

Mutated virus from the looks of it.

157335 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Nick Rose, #499 of 1997 🔗

Yep. A combination of a casedemic, and a virus that has lost nearly all of its pathogenicity.
My personal ‘worst case scenario’ is that flu and pneumonia deaths will be 20 times Covid deaths this Winter.
Though that’s not a prediction or an estimate or a projection….

157032 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Basics, 1, #500 of 1997 🔗

That’s a good presentation – even given the dubious data involved in Worldometer figures. The aggregation is good enough to shrink the errors and show the pattern.

Given all that we know about the ‘casedemic’ pattern and the profound problems of PCR testing, no decent ‘scientist’ could fail to notice what is going on here before shouting ‘FIRE!’

It would be good for a change to see at least a few journalists doing a Jon Snow on the myth-makers.I don’t reckon it would be difficult to reduce the wankers to jelly as he did to Handoncock.

156853 Biker, replying to Biker, 6, #501 of 1997 🔗

Stupidity is the most powerful force on this planet. I’m at the whims and wants of utter morons. Religious, statist, conservative, socialist, criminal, science, fat, consumer, keynesian, sport, vegan, conspiracy, morons etc the list is longer than a list of names of everyone who’s died in history to prop up Royalty.
There is no hope, it’s all over. Join the Borg, sign in, log on and await your instructions, in the meantime report any borgs you see with malware so we can reprogram their operating system until they accept that they must do what they are told by others for the good of everyone. You’d think the religious would out on the streets declaring they are gods children and god gave them free thought and free will and how dare anyone tell them how to live but since they’re morons they’re not. What about the conservative so called business people? None of them have the slightest clue and are just sellers of shite we don’t need. Not a peep from these fuckers.
Games a bogey. Still at least i’ve posted some pish on the internet, shame i don’t have a graph, graphs make you look way cool.

156893 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Biker, 5, #502 of 1997 🔗

Agreed about the business people but the champions of the workers are just as bad.

On the Today Programme R4 a week or so ago they were discussing the announcement of 700,000 more redundancies in August. Guests were someone from the TUC and another from finance (Blackwalls ?).
Bound to give the government a good kicking from each point of view but no both basically said
“Because Covid”.

Today johnsons tawdry crew announce a scheme to retrain those they have rendered unemployed for new jobs. There no new fucking jobs, that’s why they are sacking people the twats.

156901 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to karenovirus, 5, #503 of 1997 🔗

New jobs: Covid Marshals

156910 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Biker, 3, #504 of 1997 🔗

The organisation Christian Concern are fighting a number of court cases regarding our freedoms but like Simon Dolan it is hard to get the cases heard.

156963 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Biker, 2, #505 of 1997 🔗

Well said. People tell themselves tales go make them feel better. When such impressions or so called moral principles are put to the test, they just retreat and change the narrative.

156857 JohnMac, replying to JohnMac, 5, #506 of 1997 🔗

More from the Daily Telegraph:
Coronavirus deaths hit one million – how many more lives will it claim?
Will a second wave be deadlier than the first, or will a vaccine soon stem the tide? Three experts give their view

And what is their view? “Be afraid, be very afraid”.


156864 ▶▶ David Winterbottom, replying to JohnMac, 7, #507 of 1997 🔗

Hong Kong Flu killed million people at a conservative guess between 1968-70. No masks, no gel, I got it and lived with 5 members of my family aged 11 to 70. Not one of them got it. No great hospital influxes either. Explain that.

156898 ▶▶▶ JohnMac, replying to David Winterbottom, #508 of 1997 🔗


157008 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to David Winterbottom, 6, #509 of 1997 🔗

That’s what is so irritating (leaving aside motivations) about the highly paid crap ‘scientists’ who spout bilge.

They ignore simple reality – as is shown by that smple demolition of the ‘exponential growth’ graph. I mean – you had to be a total twat to give that much credibility amongst all the possibilities.

… and even if the curve rose to April heights – so what? The sky didn’t fall in then sifficiently to warrant the birth of a police state.

As I’ve often posted – I reckon that, in three quarters of a century, I have lived through actual epidemics (this wasn’t one in strict definitional terms of 40 per 10000 symptomatic infections in the community), and about two dozen years of worse mortality.

Like you, I copped the ‘flu virus in ’68 – and the even worse one ten years earlier. I wouldn’t want anyone to get a bad dose of such a virus – but both those years put Covid-19 into the shade in terms of seriousness, even allowing for the bad cases.

Above all – as one of the genuinely ‘vulnerable’, I don’t want some irritating short-trousered 12-year old f.er like Handoncock telling me what to do. It’s what I use my brain for.

156904 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to JohnMac, 4, #510 of 1997 🔗

A person from WHO told BBC R4 the figure was ‘mindblowing’, they noted the high death toll in Peru without mentioning that it had had the strictest lockdown in the world.

156906 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to karenovirus, 5, #511 of 1997 🔗

“Mindblowing”. Like the seasonal flu every year for decades on end. Fucking idiot.

156970 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to karenovirus, 3, #512 of 1997 🔗

Mindblowing? that represents 1.75% of annual world wide deaths, if that statistic blows his mind makes you wonder what the WHO is doing and who it employs?

156905 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to JohnMac, 3, #513 of 1997 🔗

That article, quite rightly got duly lambasted by most commentators.

156958 ▶▶ RickH, replying to JohnMac, 2, #514 of 1997 🔗

I can’t get my breath at the amount of bad science that creeps onto the airwaves.

I mean – you don’t need a super-computer and advanced inferential statistics to understand that such alarmism is bollocks – just a desktop, access to data, and a spreadsheet.

157128 ▶▶ BJJ, replying to JohnMac, #515 of 1997 🔗

“Experts” like Devi Shridar

156861 John Ballard, replying to John Ballard, 9, #516 of 1997 🔗

Latest ONS stats….9523 deaths in England and Wales….139 with covid of which 79 were over 80 and arguably some would have underlying issues.
1.4% of the total.
The last high week (if you can call it that) was 532 in the week ending 03 July.
What a farce.

156959 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to John Ballard, 4, #517 of 1997 🔗

The English NHS stats also hardly justify Hancock;’s actions. Over the last 7 days the number of Covid patients rose by 49.3% someway short of the doubling he predicted.
Also for the last 7 days for which full data is available we admitted 1362 Covid patients but the total cases only rose by 469, there were 125 deaths which leaves 768 unaccounted for? I can only assume that this figure represents the number of discharges?
In which case it indicates people are going into hospital, getting better and coming out again, which is sort of what they invented hospital for! It certainly looks like neither hospital or death data justifies any of the lockdown actions.
We now seem to be locked in an academic numbers game that is destroying people’s lives

157017 ▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #518 of 1997 🔗

I think quite a few people are contracting Covid in hospital while there for other reasons, which further confuses the matter. But your point is totally sound.

157085 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #519 of 1997 🔗

The UK. has always been the only country to keep no statistics of Covid recoveries.

157094 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to annie, 2, #520 of 1997 🔗

I wonder now if that is because they are under the control of Bill G who wants to push his vaccines…?

157210 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Steve Martindale, #521 of 1997 🔗

Trouble is that even these figures are shot through with problems of definition.

156869 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 23, #522 of 1997 🔗

Can we just stick a pin in this argument that lockdown saves lives. Even if lockdown works it doesn’t save a single life it just briefly extends the lives of the very sick and the very old. The obscenity is that the extra bit of life they gain has to be lived in misery. The cost is that everyone else has to live in misery too.

156881 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Achilles, -12, #523 of 1997 🔗

Well, that’s not really correct. Having a pre-existing health condition is not the same as being “very sick”. It’s hard to estimate, but Covid has probably deprived a good proportion of its victims of years of good quality life.

156894 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Richard Pinch, 9, #524 of 1997 🔗

No. As the vast majority of victims died with Covid and not of Covid we can reasonably assume that most were likely to die soon anyway from their other conditions. I’d call that very sick. Secondly, as the average deaths dropped below the 5 year average after the initial peak we can also assume many of those who died in the peak could have been expected to die in the following months anyway. As you say, hard to estimate, but mine makes more sense looking at the data. Incidentally, how many years of life gained justifies the misery lockdown has caused in your opinion?

156921 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Achilles, -7, #525 of 1997 🔗

we can reasonably assume that most were likely to die soon anyway from their other conditions

But that’s your assumption, and the question is, is it justified by the data?

how many years of life gained justifies the misery lockdown has caused in your opinion

Quite a different question. But one that cannot even be asked until we have a clear view of the numbers.

156934 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnMac, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #526 of 1997 🔗

Detailed stats will take time. So what’s your point?

We have enough information many times over to know that the lockdown was a terrible decision.

156960 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to JohnMac, 3, #527 of 1997 🔗

And the extension of those lives is outweighed by the cost to others, see e.g. LSE’s very early cost benefit analysis in terms of not QALYs but WELLBYs. Centre for Economic Performance Occasional Paper 49 – when they were still working on Ferguson’s possible 125K deaths!

157003 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Bruno, -2, #528 of 1997 🔗

That would be the report that said, referring to the cost of Covid deaths

We then assume that those who die would on average have lived another six years.

157306 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #529 of 1997 🔗

Approximately half the deaths were in care homes or Nursing homes.
I believe the average time resident in the above, prior to death, is under two years.

That report should be completely discounted as soon as statements like this are made:-

“If the lockdown ends on 1May in the manner described earlier, the UK would experience some 150,000 deaths from COVID-19, mostly in a second wave occurring before a regime of testing and tracing can be put in place.15By contrast if the lockdown ends1 September and there isa robust regime of testing and tracing(as was observed in South Korea16), the number of subsequent deaths will be at most 5,000.”

Garbage in, garbage out…

156943 ▶▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Richard Pinch, 4, #530 of 1997 🔗

It is a reasonable assumption based on the data we have and the average age of death. Bearing in mind that we destroyed peoples lives based on a “reasonable” worst case scenario. That was full of assumptions.

When we get a clear view of the numbers? We have plenty of numbers and almost all of them suggest lockdown is a failed policy, or are you waiting for some magical number that will appear in 5 years to prove Ferguson was right?

156967 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Achilles, #531 of 1997 🔗

I’m not defending, or attacking, any paticular policy, lockdown or otherwise. I’m discussing whether it is true that not dying of Covid “ briefly extends the lives of the very sick and the very old”. What are the numbers here?

One possible source is DHSC/ONS/GAD/HO: Direct and indirect impacts of COVID-19 on excess deaths and morbidity, 15 July 2020 which estimates about 10 QALY lost for each Covid death, based on a study of the health status of the victims.

157080 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Richard Pinch, 4, #532 of 1997 🔗

Richard I’ll do you the respect of trying to get through that 188 page paper but as it is full of models and scenarios and one of it’s key findings is that they estimate that mitigation will have saved 1.5m lives by March 2021 (that’s right, 1.5million) my confidence in it’s credibility isn’t great.

156944 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Richard Pinch, 4, #533 of 1997 🔗

is it justified by the data?”

Of course it is – it’s hardly a revelation.

156996 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to RickH, -1, #534 of 1997 🔗

Then can you point to the data that supports the claim that people who dies of Covid had on average only a very short life expectancy at the time they caught the disease?

157172 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Richard Pinch, #535 of 1997 🔗

Yes : just look at the age of the group and compare it with the average life span.

157375 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to RickH, #536 of 1997 🔗

That’s a fallacy, as I explain elsewhere in this thread. If you’re 82, you have a further life expectancy of 8 or 9 years.

156972 ▶▶▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Richard Pinch, 3, #537 of 1997 🔗

But that’s your assumption, and the question is, is it justified by the data?’

Eh, yeah. When a vast majority of the people who died with Covid are a couple of years beyond the average life expectancy and living in care homes, then it is pretty obvious.

156993 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to jb12, -1, #538 of 1997 🔗

It’s obviously fallacious. The fallacy is in ignoring those people who through bad luck or poor health don’t make it to 82. If you do make it to 82, you’re likely to be healthier than the average and hence be in a group with a longer life expectancy, not all of which has passed.

If you’re 82, then you have a further life expectancy of 8 years or so, mainly with good quality of life.

157004 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Richard Pinch, 4, #539 of 1997 🔗

The average length of stay in a care home is 20 months and people do not get discharged from them – they die there.
People in care homes are unable to live independently, otherwise they would still be in their own homes. This may be because they are physically or (possibly more likely) mentally frail, with dementia or similar. People do not live in care homes for 8 years!

157014 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Carrie, -1, #540 of 1997 🔗

… and not everyone aged 82 is in a care home.

Approximately 418,000 people live in care homes (Laing and Buisson survey 2016). This is 4% of the total population aged 65 years and over, rising to 15% of those aged 85 or more

157161 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #541 of 1997 🔗

Half the deaths in Scotland were in care homes. It has been a while since I looked, it was a smaller, but still large, proportion in England too. Your reply to me completely ignored that.

157083 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #542 of 1997 🔗

Maybe because I’m not a scientist I don’t understand,19,000 of 39,000 care home deaths is almost half.
MOST is on very shaky ground as a statement

157176 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #543 of 1997 🔗

Except those who died overwhelmingly had other diseases. Why are you wasting time on this rubbish?

157704 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to RickH, 1, #544 of 1997 🔗

Except those who died overwhelmingly had other diseases

No, they had other conditions, from which they might otherwise have recovered, or which might have been otherwise have been managed to provide a satisfactory quality of life. The statics have been worked out in excruciating detail in the report I’ve already alluded to, and the implication that Covid “overwhelmingly” cur a short period off the lives of people already gravely ill is simply false.

Why are you wasting time on this rubbish?

A good question. I take it that the “rubbish” you refer to is the notion, assiduously peddled on this site among others, that the lives lost to Covid were somehow not worthy of consideration. I regard that as pernicious rubbish, and think it’s worth a little time trying to counter it.

157316 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #545 of 1997 🔗

Yes, conditional survival probability comes in to play a bit.

But if you’re in a care home or nursing home you do not have a life expectancy of 8 years.

And if you’re frightened to venture out of the front door of your house, you do not have a good quality of life.

157733 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Kevin 2, 1, #546 of 1997 🔗

if you’re in a care home or nursing home you do not have a life expectancy of 8 years

Quite correct, it’s more like 1-2 years in that case. But 85% of 82 year olds are not in care homes.

157749 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Richard Pinch, #547 of 1997 🔗

So the focus should be on providing elders in the community with accurate and measured information, so that they can make informed decisions about personal risk, and accordingly decide for themselves how they wish to live their lives.

And instead, all that is received is an unrelenting fear message.

157759 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Kevin 2, 1, #548 of 1997 🔗

Of course I support providing people with accurate and measured information. Indeed, that’s what I’ve been trying to to in this very discussion.

157051 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to jb12, -1, #549 of 1997 🔗

When a vast majority of the people who died with Covid are a couple of years beyond the average life expectancy and living in care homes

Not correct. According to ONS up to 12 June

Since the beginning of the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic (between the period 2 March to 12 June 2020, registered up to 20 June 2020), there were 66,112 deaths of care home residents (wherever the death occurred); of these, 19,394 involved COVID-19

So, most of the 39,101 Covid deaths up to that date did not occur in care homes.

157093 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #550 of 1997 🔗

Over 70% of deaths in Sweden have been of people either in care homes or receiving council care in their own homes..

157112 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ BJJ, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #551 of 1997 🔗

You mean only about 50% of the Covid deaths did occur in care homes. I would say that is quite a fair bit.

157200 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to BJJ, 1, #552 of 1997 🔗

… and I would say that it is not “a vast majority” as originally claimed.

156899 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Richard Pinch, 9, #553 of 1997 🔗

The authoritarian Covid regulations have deprived the majority of healthy people quality of life and turned a nation of a Brits into a nation of hysterical hypochondriacs.

157020 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Bella Donna, -2, #554 of 1997 🔗

And if you want to make that argument, which I’m saying nothing about here, then it would be more powerful to make it on the basis of accurate information.

156902 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #555 of 1997 🔗

The people I feel most sorry for are people who have compromised immune systems just ‘at the wrong time’… Example from here was a younger man who had had a transplant and then got CV19 (outside of hospital) and died.. The transplant had gone well and in any other circumstances he would have likely survived and had a good quality of life for a number of years..

156903 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Richard Pinch, 3, #556 of 1997 🔗

or possibly, with such a pre-existing condition that makes them so vulnerable to covid, delayed a death that would likely have occurred during the next winter flu outbreak.

156924 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to mjr, #557 of 1997 🔗

Possibly. Not everyone is the same.

156940 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #558 of 1997 🔗

That’s why we look at aggregate data.

157007 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to RickH, 1, #559 of 1997 🔗

That’s why we look at aggregate data.

As in the report DHSC/ONS/GAD/HO: Direct and indirect impacts of COVID-19 on excess deaths and morbidity which I have referred to a couple of times already.

156938 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Richard Pinch, 5, #560 of 1997 🔗

Sorry- but that’s ‘total bollocks’, to use the appropriate scientific term.

  1. A major component of the deaths amongst the elderly happened when this virus spread was the result of survival beyond normal life expectancy because of the previous ‘weak’ infection season.
  2. The age profile of deaths in comparison with the average shows that they occurred in many cases beyond average life expectancy.
  3. We have no clear idea of how many deaths were caused by Covid as the main or only agent
  4. Even with the ‘elderly’ spike, mortality was not exceptional – just concentrated in a short period.

What is the case is that the policy of discharge of infected persons from hospital hastened the concentration of co-morbid deaths. But that doesn’t, by any stretch of the imagination equate to ‘years of good quality life’.

What have you been smoking to induce fantasies like that?

156950 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to RickH, 3, #561 of 1997 🔗

Then we have some limited evidence form autopsies


It’s completely indefensible now to claim the number of people marked as CV-19 death is the true number. By a long long way. Its criminality.

156985 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to RickH, -2, #562 of 1997 🔗

I’ll address this, although it’s more than it deserves. (1) is an assertion. (2) Do you happen to know what the life expectancy of an 82-year old is? It’s another 8 years for a man and 9 years for a woman. So no. (3) ONS worked quite hard on that. (4) cannot be determined yet.

I’ll refer again to DHSC/ONS/GAD/HO: Direct and indirect impacts of COVID-19 on excess deaths and morbidity, 15 July 2020 (September update)

157207 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Richard Pinch, #563 of 1997 🔗

You’re really in La La land. (1) is no assertion – it is a well known feature of the past two years’ mortality (aka ‘the bleedin’ obvious’). Notably wore people survived 2018/19 than average. In 2020 many will be older and sicker on average.

Thus we end up with the two year mortality being average, as the years balance each other.

(2) Your assertion has no basis in reality.

(3) ONS cannot plait fog. I’ve used only ONS data, but that data is screwed (and skewed) right at the source by the arbitrary revision of death registration, the guess work, and the ‘fell under a bus with the virus’ syndrome that the CEBM picked up.

(4) It’s already determined. I’ve done it. The 2019/20 winter-spring infection season (including the peak) – as I’ve posted elsewhere – resulted in mortality at the 75th centile of the preceding quarter century.

157271 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to RickH, #564 of 1997 🔗

(1) is no assertion

I don’t know what you mean by “assertion”, then. Your statement seemed to be a statement about the real world, but perhaps it was something else.

(2) Your assertion has no basis in reality.

(2), here is the statement that “the life expectancy of an 82-year old is […] another 8 years for a man and 9 years for a woman”. Again, that’s from ONS data. Why do you think it has no basis?

(3) ONS cannot plait fog. I’ve used only ONS data, but that data is screwed (and skewed) right at the source by the arbitrary revision of death registration, the guess work, and the ‘fell under a bus with the virus’ syndrome

Confusing PHE figures, rightly criticised, with ONS figures.

The 2019/20 winter-spring infection season (including the peak) – as I’ve posted elsewhere – resulted in mortality at the 75th centile of the preceding quarter century.

I think you may have made a similar remark before. If so, it was the worst for 20 years, the years which were worse having been the years from 1993 to 1999.

157287 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Richard Pinch, #565 of 1997 🔗

Any meaningful calculation of life years lost (when you factor in undiagnosed/untreated cancer, heart disease, suicides, long-term hastened mortality due to unemployment and poverty etc etc.) would see the disproportionate damage from the response, not the virus.

If the average age of a Covid fatality is in the mid -eighties and the mean age from all-cause mortality is the same age, then what are we doing?

As far as care homes are concerned, we are simply ensuring that the last year of life is one spent in wretched isolation from everybody including family.
There should be some kind of guardian ad litem appointed for each and every care home, so as to ensure that the quality of life of every single individual is maintained as far as is humanly possible.

And then you really should do a quality-adjusted life year calculation.
NICE uses QALY’s to measure cost / benefit of all new approved drugs before recommending whether or not the NHS should fund.

Any vaccine candidate would surely fail the test. Most certainly in the case of all children. Children are at no risk from this virus.

157358 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Kevin 2, #566 of 1997 🔗
156880 tonyspurs, replying to tonyspurs, 10, #567 of 1997 🔗

Sums this cowardly twat up 😂

156890 ▶▶ Biggles, replying to tonyspurs, 6, #568 of 1997 🔗

If I was the guy playing next to him I know where that elbow would be going.

157265 ▶▶▶ Biggles, replying to Biggles, 1, #569 of 1997 🔗

And another thought, has the handbag been photoshopped out of the picture?

156891 ▶▶ mjr, replying to tonyspurs, 2, #570 of 1997 🔗

at least he is keeping his arms in so that he cannot give away a penalty for accidental handball under the stupid interpretation of the laws that FIFA make the refs follow
Or is he pretending he is a hamster? Surely the NHS needs guinea pigs

157045 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to tonyspurs, 1, #571 of 1997 🔗

I would kick him up in the air within the first 5 minutes and 5 minutes after.

156912 John Galt, replying to John Galt, 18, #572 of 1997 🔗

Ah, so Toby’s still part of the “it’s all incompetence” camp?

I’d say the most far-fetched theory to believe in is that every single government in the entire world, with the exception of one or two, does not know what a flu is.

156932 ▶▶ Julian, replying to John Galt, 8, #573 of 1997 🔗

Do you think it matters, right now, what the reasons are?

I am more in the cowardice and dishonesty rather than conspiracy camp, but not dogmatically so

I don’t think it’s that implausible that politicians in multiple countries, faced by the same threat, did similar things. They copied eachother, felt peer pressure, and mainly suffer from the same weaknesses our leaders do – vanity, love of power etc.

156942 ▶▶▶ Gerry Mandarin, replying to Julian, 3, #574 of 1997 🔗

Incompetence, cowardice and dishonesty for me.

Full face saving mode now though – which could end up doing more damage the the original decisions.

157071 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 3, #575 of 1997 🔗

Whether is was a conspiracy or not at the start is unimportant.It is undeniable that different groups are pushing their agendas on the back of this and that is the reason we are still in semi lockdown with no end in sight

157086 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 3, #576 of 1997 🔗

Given that Boris is openly referencing Bill G in speeches and now replying positively to his tweets, questions need to be asked as to how much he is controlling the UK government..

156951 ▶▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to Julian, 7, #577 of 1997 🔗

And when they get to these meetings at Davos and Bilderberg what do you imagine they are discussing?

Of course it matters if only to try to plan for what may becoming next.

157011 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 5, #578 of 1997 🔗

Global reset if you listen to Prince Charles, amongst others..

157021 ▶▶▶▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to Carrie, 3, #579 of 1997 🔗

Yes thought that back in March.

156956 ▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Julian, 9, #580 of 1997 🔗

It does matter, because if we are correct that this is being used to implement greater surveillance and control over financial resources, then we have to know. If this is something that goes beyond national government, it is fruitless to petition national government to stop it; keep voting and voting and voting while the general tenor of daily life moves inexorably towards the end devised by these supra-national bodies.

Regardless, the fact anyone can think this is just incompetence at this stage blows my mind. Nicola Stalin giving it ‘the human right not to get Covid trumps all other human rights’ is apt: do you really think she is that stupid and incompetent to believe that a disease which only afflicts the old and already frail necessitates such a response? Anyway, I think the ‘they are stupid and scared’ view says more about the holder than about the object of such a position.

157416 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to jb12, 2, #581 of 1997 🔗

totally agree with you

the fact anyone can think this is just incompetence at this stage blows my mind

157046 ▶▶▶ John Galt, replying to Julian, 9, #582 of 1997 🔗

Of course it matters, because it’s going to lead to more.

Read these headlines and tell me they’re not chilling:

“Prince Charles to launch ‘Great Reset’ project to rebuild planet in wake of coronavirus”
“The pandemic represents a rare but narrow window of opportunity to reflect, reimagine, and reset our world” – Professor Klaus Schwab, Founder and Executive Chairman, World Economic Forum.”
“The Great Reset is here, like it or not”
“Now is the time for a ‘great reset’ of capitalism | World Economic Forum”

They are literally and openly saying what they’re going to do and people are still clinging onto “incompetence” as the reason for this.

Look, if this all stopped in say, July, I could take incompetence as the reason for why it happened. A virus that China blew out of all proportion came over here, every government in the world collectively pooed their pants, and some bad decisions were made. But then it could have been ended. The virus was over. Deaths were non-existent. They could have all happily patted themselves on the back, said “the lockdown’s worked! it’s all over!” but what did they do instead? They amp it up further. We’re moving further and further into draconian measures because of.. infections. Not even deaths, because they cleverly moved the goalposts away from that when there weren’t any anymore. Not even hospitalisations, because nobody is being hospitalised anymore. Hell, not even illnesses, because an “infection” doesn’t even mean that they know they’ve had it. It’s infections they’re now using and they’re actively manufacturing them.

Why as a government would you actively manufacture a panic over a virus when it’s to all intents and purposes finished? Why as a government would you keep it going when you’ve had numerous chances to get out and still appear like you’ve done the right thing? And why is it the same for every government in the world?

157067 ▶▶▶▶ tallandbald, replying to John Galt, 1, #583 of 1997 🔗

I take your point but as some countries fully open up and ditch their restrictions including any notion of what you state, as we are seeing in the news now, this point of view would get weaker. Surely the more countries that open the more pressure will be put on us to follow?

157081 ▶▶▶▶▶ John Galt, replying to tallandbald, #584 of 1997 🔗

Which countries are they? I don’t watch the news so just searched for “restrictions” on Google news and the top results were about the UK, the Netherlands, France and Spain introducing stricter measures, and Italy, Greece, Poland and Sweden facing quarantine restrictions.

157105 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ tallandbald, replying to John Galt, 3, #585 of 1997 🔗

I’m the same but I have seen Denmark are ditching restrictions and Florida is about to open up fully I see. I can imagine that if this is incompetence then more will follow as financial pressure grows on them to try and rescue themselves. If you are correct, how would these countries be explained?
I flip-flop every day from your point of view to incompetence. I can’t seem to settle on a theory.

157144 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John Galt, replying to tallandbald, 1, #586 of 1997 🔗

Denmark is following the same script from what I can find, “Coronavirus in Denmark: Increasingly more infections, restrictions and tests”. They’re also on the travel quarantine list for here. I can’t find anything about them removing restrictions, though it could be buried away and I can’t find it with a quick search.

I’m just reading about Florida “reopening”, so they’re lifting restrictions. However, how many times have we seen restrictions lifted and then put back in place? It’s happened to us how many times now? Funnily enough, if you go back to June 2020, here’s a headline: “Florida reports 1,758 new COVID-19 cases as state enters second week of phase 2 reopening”.

Keep in mind that this isn’t going to be a blanket “you all must do exactly the same thing” type of decree. There’s always going to be leeway. The end plan is the same, how they get there can differ.

If you explain what your view is in regards to there being a plan or not or it being incompetence or not I can try and explain further.

157257 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to John Galt, 1, #587 of 1997 🔗

Florida will never go back to lockdowns, while Ron De Santis is Governor.

Read his tweets and retweets:-


157886 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Kevin 2, #588 of 1997 🔗

Georgia was one of the first States to “open again”, and in urban areas it did take quite a hit in spring. They have stayed open.
There are still restrictions in place in certain places, but basically one can live “normal” there.

157297 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to John Galt, #589 of 1997 🔗

I think in the short term it only matters if it changes what we do to fight it. My view is that fickle politicians will follow public opinion, and principled ones will follow their conscience, so we work on both fronts.

Let’s say you are 100% correct in what you say – what would your approach be?

157317 ▶▶▶▶▶ John Galt, replying to Julian, #590 of 1997 🔗

Yes, I see what you’re saying. However, this is going to be a very long term thing. I also find that most people now see through what’s going on, they just don’t understand why. So the question I receive most when I discuss this with people is “why are they doing this?” and saying “oh, it’s incompetence” isn’t just wrong, it’s misleading and makes zero sense when you start thinking further about it. My main issue is with the sentiment of the “oh, I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but” type of crowd. If you said to someone this time last year “in a year’s time we will be put under varying levels of restrictions and subject to nationwide lockdowns because of a flu” they would have laughed at you and called you a conspiracy theorist.

What would my approach be in what sense, if I was part of the government or if I ran this website?

157373 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to John Galt, 1, #591 of 1997 🔗

It may be a long term thing
In the short term I would favour whatever argument works for a given audience – that may be conspiracy, incompetence or neither
My question regarding approach was really just what you think us sceptics should be doing to turn the tide
Whatever our differences on this subject, think we should stay as united as possible – too important not to

157504 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John Galt, replying to Julian, 1, #592 of 1997 🔗

Definitely, I agree with staying united, that’s why the “conspiracy theory” talk puts me off. Even just agreeing with the general message of this site makes us all conspiracy theorists in the media and the government’s eyes, so I don’t know why people would denigrate others regarding so called conspiracy theories.

At this stage I would probably just present the facts as they are and let people make up their minds. I certainly wouldn’t point towards incompetence and to the completely uninformed I wouldn’t start with talking about The Great Reset or anything like that either. It’s too much information to process.

For the brainwashed I’d start very slowly because psychologically when you’re bombarded with an opinion you don’t agree with, you tend to push back against it even more. These people may never be turned so I wouldn’t spend too much time worrying about it. For the initially sceptical I’d confirm their sceptical thoughts. Now when it comes to the sceptic who wants to know why it’s happening, this is where I can’t see any way to avoid talking about a “conspiracy”, so up until this stage you can avoid going that way, but at this point you have to make a decision.

One thing I’d highly recommend is to make sure you don’t argue by their rules. By this I mean never argue with “oh, there hasn’t been much of a rise in infections”, because when they manufacture a rise in infections they can argue back “look, there has been a rise in infections!” Always start your argument and persuasion with the caveat that this is no more than a mild flu, and often up to 50,000 people can die of flu in the UK and god knows how many more can be infected. Once you’ve laid that down, there’s not much more they can logically argue back with.

“We need to save just one life!”
“We’ve never done that for the flu, and we’ve had flu’s that have been worse than this.”
“We need to lockdown until it’s over!”
“It’s a flu, we have no need to lockdown or infringe on our rights for a flu. We’ve never done it before.”
“But my neighbour’s dog’s friend’s Grandaughter’s science teacher got it and died, you’re so heartless!”
“That’s terrible, but worldwide 6 times more people have died of cancer this year than coronavirus, what about those people? If their treatment hadn’t been disrupted for a flu, they might have lived.”

157658 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to John Galt, 2, #593 of 1997 🔗

I agree it’s best to try not to chuck around “conspiracy theorist” as a label. Not helpful.

Also agree that we must refuse to argue by their rules. The core case is that trying to save lives at all costs is futile and immoral and we have never done it, ever, and the virus is simply nothing exceptional.

157108 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Julian, 2, #594 of 1997 🔗

But they aren’t all doing the same thing, now. The Germans, Danes, Fins and Norwegians have quietly got on copying the Swedes. The French have ruled out another lockdown and seem to have made the decision that they are going to live with the disease in a Swedish way. There just isn’t the worldwide consensus anymore.

157152 ▶▶▶▶ John Galt, replying to Will, 1, #595 of 1997 🔗

Germany ‘could face 19,200 infections a day’, warns Merkel.
But the leaked comments suggested she is set to press for new restrictions on daily life in Germany.”

Denmark Warns of New Wave of Covid Restrictions as Cases Spike”

“The Finnish government is considering bringing in new restrictions on bars and restaurants because of the continued spread of coronavirus.”

“As Oslo ( Norway ) introduces mandatory face mask use on congested public transport and other measures to slow the spread of coronavirus, health minister Bent Høie has asked municipalities near the capital to follow suit.”

Sweden plans for local lockdowns in strategy shift
Dr Anders Tegnell has now said that Sweden may implement localised lockdowns, but only for a maximum of two or three weeks”

“Record infections in France as restrictions spark outcry
France reported a new record for daily coronavirus infections on Thursday a day after the government announced new restrictions.”

These are all from articles over the past few days.

157043 ▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to John Galt, 3, #596 of 1997 🔗

This is a handy site but it’s just noise at the end of the day isn’t it? I haven’t looked at MSM since cancelling my Telegraph subscription a while ago and just ignore the links to any of them in the round up on here, as it’s just more hot air and no action.
Aside from Simon Dolan and KBF all i’m seeing is a load of Peacocks and Prima Donna’s doing FA.

157258 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to NonCompliant, 2, #597 of 1997 🔗

“This is a handy site but it’s just noise at the end of the day isn’t it?

Noise is better than silence.

157292 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to NonCompliant, 2, #598 of 1997 🔗

Well, you’re here, posting, so you must in some way find it helpful

156922 NonCompliant, replying to NonCompliant, 16, #599 of 1997 🔗

The Brendan O’Neill piece had me spitting feathers. He’s yet another one, sat on his wee podium, saying it’s all a load of bollocks but doing absolutely nothing about the situation. He then has the cheek to berate Piers Corbyn and Co for actually organising some kind of protest movement and lumps all attendees in with the conspiracy crowd? Spiked can go take a hike, gonna cancel my monthly payment, I ain’t got time for the word salad brigade any more, they turn my stomach.

156999 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to NonCompliant, 9, #600 of 1997 🔗

It’s a bit much when people like Brendan O’Neill and Peter Hitchens complaining about the protestors and organisers all being conspiracy theorists. Neither have made any effort to organise anything more ‘mainstream’. The MSM is controlled by the establishment and MP’s haven’t been standing up against the draconian measures. Human rights and Civil liberties organisations only support Labour party and Far left causes and not a single one has condemned the beating of peaceful protestors. Ordinary people have absolutely no voice so their only option is to take to the streets.

157159 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Darryl, 2, #601 of 1997 🔗

It was pretty clear that the Trafalgar Square protests contained a wide variety of people.

157288 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Darryl, 1, #602 of 1997 🔗

I don’t know much about O’Neill but Hitchens has been tireless in using his platform in the Mail on Sunday, on Twitter and in the media to speak against what is happening, making the argument again and again to whoever will listen.

Hitchens is an ally, 100%. He’s entitled to his view that pushing conspiracy theories does more to harm than to help the cause, and that the most prominent speakers in that “wing” are too easy to attack. I think he is right – but that does not mean I do not respect Corbyn and others for standing up for what they believe in, nor does it mean I think they are definitely wrong.

I haven’t seen Hitchens say that “all” protestors are conspiracy theorists.

157006 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to NonCompliant, 9, #603 of 1997 🔗

“Word salad brigade” is perfect. Piers Corbyn has more or less single-handedly created the only visible public opposition to the government. His first protest in Hyde Park back in April had no more than 100 attendees, now he’s getting many thousands in Trafalgar Square. This is a remarkable achievement against the backdrop of a unanimously hostile public, media and state. The government are so cowardly they invented a new law overnight to try and stop him.

157036 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Richard O, 5, #604 of 1997 🔗

Yes, Piers Corbyn and a few other brave people who have faced constant media ridicule and police harassment have provided the only real opposition – it’s a sad state of affairs. Completely unreported (including on this site, why?) some of these people are having dawn raids by the police and their computers and phones seized. We really do live in a fascist police state and no one seems too gives a damn.

157331 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to NonCompliant, #605 of 1997 🔗

Agree. BO’N is saying that anyone that challenges the Governments agenda (that is bankrolled by other parties) are conspiracy theorists. Lovely infighting and calling people names will dilute the challenge to lockdown.

The German Doctor that was arrested this weekend challenges this bumbling narrative as well. His Two questions
1.Who’s has the power to organise this in an orchestrated international way?
2. Who get to profit out of this?

156925 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 3, #606 of 1997 🔗

Number of second wave deaths ‘nothing like’ that of first, professor tells Julia Hartley-Brewer
Geneticist and health data scientist Professor Anthony Brookes explains why he is “confident” that the deaths caused by a second wave of coronavirus will be “nothing like the amount of deaths we had in the first wave”.

156998 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Sarigan, 1, #607 of 1997 🔗

So the dust settles. We overcome this current panworld lunacy. We return to our normals. But as we do a voice of, say, privy council elwood backed by, say, knight of garter charles point out to the house – we got away with it this time, but our response has been crippling, we cannot afford to live life without viral protective measures in them. We must now as a global society be always ready for the next virus they may say. You are either with us or against us.

20 years of viral skirmishes here and there. A viral outbreak, say, in the Sahel to keep the EU military boots on the ground in Africa lending a threat across the globe for as many years as they choose, say, 20 or so. Public attention deminishing, no problem, just pop in a minor viral incident here and there. A bio terror incident or a poxed-up bat, it makes no odds to the public grabbing attention.

Replace islamic terrorism with virus and you can imagine a future not so far fetched. Long haul thinking for them, we must be ready to push trough our eventual victory to cutting out the malignancy engendered by the actors we see before us and their handlers.

We need to pass laws that prevent this happening again.

For debate – an acceptance of captital punishment for a certain level of treasonous wrong doing in, say, the cabinet. No acceptance, no cabinate position. Intended as a means of having them act straight with personal accountabilty tied to their job.

157018 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 2, #608 of 1997 🔗

Remember they intend to depopulate the world via vaccination, according to Bill Gates… that needs to be stopped NOW.

157040 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Basics, 3, #609 of 1997 🔗

Reinstating the death penalty for treason, and then giving the power to pass this sentence to both national and international tribunals, must be a step that is worth seriously considering. For the amount of death and destruction that has been and will be caused, execution is actually a light sentence.

158114 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Richard O, #610 of 1997 🔗

As much as I’m not in favour of capital punishment this is a concession for me. Politicians must never again be allowed to play Russian roulette with people’s lives and if it means reinstating what is akin to the Code of Hammurabi as a deterrent, so be it…

157060 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Basics, 2, #611 of 1997 🔗

Johnson said as much in his speech to the UN.They will never give up the control they have established

156935 BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 4, #612 of 1997 🔗

Child suspended in Ireland for not wearing a mask.

156947 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 10, #613 of 1997 🔗

This should be a prize exhibit in the Covid Museum of Shame. Next to it should be a picture of its authors rotting away in their prison cells.

156965 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Richard O, 5, #614 of 1997 🔗

With masks stapled to their faces. They can be fed through a drip, so no need for their faces ever to be exposed again.

156977 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Ovis, 2, #615 of 1997 🔗

Yes, think Guantanamo Bay and we are approaching the levels of justice these sadistic bastards deserve.

157127 ▶▶▶ FThem, replying to Richard O, 1, #616 of 1997 🔗

No, make it a live video feed to their cells, with a button you can press to remotely administer them a paniful electric shock. Musems like interactive exhibits thesedays.

156979 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #617 of 1997 🔗

Looks like the school is acting unlawfully. The key exemption from wearing a face covering is (according to HSE) : “Cannot wear a face covering because of a physical or mental illness or a disability, or because it would cause you severe distress”.

HSE do not stipulate the a medical certificate is required. In fact, I believe that GPs have been instructed NOT to issue such certificates.

Complete catch22 situation.

157062 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to godowneasy, 1, #618 of 1997 🔗

this is Irish Republic.. So different regulations and probably different definitions of exemptions

157267 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to mjr, #619 of 1997 🔗

The OP did reference the “HSE” which is the (Irish) Health Service Executive.

157082 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #620 of 1997 🔗

Did not think the department of education had mandated masks in schools? Think the school is trying it on and hoping to threaten the family into submission.. Hope this letter has been sent to UsForThem… Put this on Twitter too maybe?

157091 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Carrie, #621 of 1997 🔗

It’s the Irish Republic and was posted on twitter

156936 Exit84, replying to Exit84, 10, #622 of 1997 🔗

Thought I’d post a poem I wrote at the beginning of July.
Might have to update it soon as there are so many new restrictions since I wrote it!

The New Abnormal – A Poem for 2020

Stay at home
Close your mind
Listen to us
We are kind

Stay at home
Watch the telly
Eat some pizza
Rub your belly

If you’re out
Wear a mask
If you don’t
People might ask

At the shops
Pay by card
Not with cash
That’s been barred

On a bus
Cover your face
Two metres apart
Know your place

In a pub
Stay in lane
Order by app
Leave your name

At the bank
Wait in line
One metre plus
You’ll be fine

Stay at home
Close your mind
Listen to us
We are kind

157134 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Exit84, 1, #623 of 1997 🔗

That’s good that.

157193 ▶▶▶ Exit84, replying to Two-Six, #624 of 1997 🔗

Thank you.

156939 Mark, replying to Mark, 10, #625 of 1997 🔗

An important point in the London Calling podcast . Delingpole noted the gratuitously provocative and aggressive actions of the police against these demonstrators. Toby pointed out the contrast in actions by the police, in genuflecting to unsocially distanced, aggressively anti-police BLM mobs but baton charging peaceful antilockdown protesters that were notably supportive of the police, and asked what’s going on. Delingpole (4:42):

This is coming from high up. High up the chain. The story I heard – this is a friend with contacts in the police, he says a source close to the police told me today that the Territorial Support Group … were ordered to clear the square and do so robustly. And the aggression was all on the police’s part .”
Toby: “ Who gave the order, do you think?

The suggestion is that the orders must have come from either Sadiq Khan or Priti Patel.

We need to know who gave this nod to thuggery, so that they can be treated appropriately. Inquiries are always difficult to pursue into this kind of “nod and wink” instruction, but pressure should be put on to get one initiated and pushed as hard as possible.

156974 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Mark, 4, #626 of 1997 🔗

I even wonder if it came from Boris Johnson (instructed by Dominic Cummings). As usual the police and MSM have rewritten history and an angry mob attacked brave peaceful police officers.

I won’t have any sympathy for the police if they take a beating from the BLM protestors if Trump gets reelected – I saw many entirely peaceful people beaten for no reason by the TSG. I will never trust the Met or vote for the Conservative party again.

156988 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Darryl, #627 of 1997 🔗

Those who were there should at least try to get some kind of questions asked about whether such an order was given, and if so, by whom?

The best placed would perhaps be solicitors for the people injured.

And anyone who uses twitter should try to get it discussed there.

157019 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Mark, 1, #628 of 1997 🔗

I agree, it isn’t always easy to get answers out of them. It can only be Khan, Patel or Johnson.

I don’t think people would want to get solicitors involve as the fees would soon get into 6 figure sums. Unfortunately the anti-lockdown movement doesn’t have multinational and billionaires funding it! which says a lot about why the movement is absolutely despised by the establishment.

157041 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mark, 1, #629 of 1997 🔗

There’s a post about this in a reply on Simon Dolan’s Twitter feed today, particularly referencing the police in the red hats as being involved on the express orders of Boris and Sadiq Khan..
(read the post from Jolly Pirate)

157072 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, #630 of 1997 🔗

Red hats were group leaders as they marched into the square, each headed a group of 20-30 thugs, from memory those at the rear of each formation had white hats.

157322 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Carrie, #631 of 1997 🔗


Transcript – short version

At previous protest. Policemen said they do not believe that the virus exist. It is all about control by Mayor of London and Boris

157055 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Mark, 4, #632 of 1997 🔗

My money would be on Khan. He wants everyone in London shuffling about in masks in all public spaces whilst they pay homage to the new Woke religious icons and rituals. Protests such as Saturday are too much for his narcissism to bear. Johnson probably didn’t even know a protest was happening.

156945 Seansaighdeoir, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 11, #633 of 1997 🔗

That this site is willing to deny the overwhelming evidence of what is happening not just here but across the world because Brendan O’Neil shares Toby’s view that to think otherwise is some sort of conspiracy theory is frankly ridiculous.

As the country and the world is destroyed by those who have been planning this for years there really is no time to waste on such a level of obduracy.

156961 ▶▶ Gerry Mandarin, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 5, #634 of 1997 🔗

You’ve seen enough politicians: Most couldn’t organise the preverbial drinks session in a brewery.. Do you really think they have the ability to pull something like that off – and with no leaks of what is happening.

156968 ▶▶▶ wayno, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 2, #635 of 1997 🔗

I think that is the key.. no leaks. The gov hold secrets like a colander holds water.

157039 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to wayno, 5, #636 of 1997 🔗

Where can you leak,the media are bought and paid for and the opposition are compliant

156987 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 3, #637 of 1997 🔗

I have not come across a conspiracy theory that considers politicians to be anything more then cheaply and easily corruptible puppets.

157000 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 17, #638 of 1997 🔗

The politicians are not the ones organising this.They are just reading from a script or following the agreed line which they are good at.
I’ll give you a conspiracy theory.
Bill Gates has financial links to nearly all the main scientific players in this.He is a major donor to the WHO,which is directing the response. He has been mentioned in at least 3 speeches by our prime minister.All the solutions to this crisis exactly match his own hobby horses,Vaccines and digital identity’s .
Do I think that Bill Gates is in his hollowed out volcano stroking a cat,No,but even the most ardent believer in government incompetence must see there are questions to answer and more to this than meets the eye.

157010 ▶▶▶▶ Humanity First, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 3, #639 of 1997 🔗

Purported leak from a parliamentary advisor to the German Bundestag:


157049 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 4, #640 of 1997 🔗

This is SICK https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1310624800591806467

(Boris tweeting Bill Gates)

157126 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Carrie, 1, #641 of 1997 🔗

Nothing to see here,and anyone who does is a tin foil hat wearing lunatic

157130 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Carrie, 4, #642 of 1997 🔗

Blimey, what kind of a Gates super-stooge is Boris?

157697 ▶▶▶▶▶ Templeton, replying to Carrie, #643 of 1997 🔗

Cant read this one, not a twatter user.
Anyone fancy the ol’ Ctrl C & V?

157015 ▶▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 6, #644 of 1997 🔗

There have been leaks.

In April UK Column were presenting copies of leaked minutes where they were openly discussing re-purposing society. The businesses the govt wanted to keep open and the opportunity to get rid of those they didn’t think ‘viable’. All that while the old and infirm were dying in droves in care homes.

And in case you haven’t noticed despite your ‘…couldn’t organise a piss up ..’ comments they shut down the f**king country.

157034 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 5, #645 of 1997 🔗

They mentioned shutting schools forever too, which fits in with the article I quoted earlier from today’s mercola.com..

157025 ▶▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 4, #646 of 1997 🔗

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

157037 ▶▶▶▶ Mark H, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #647 of 1997 🔗

Almost every single government on the planet all singing from the same hymn sheet is stupidity? There are no forces behind the curtain controlling things uniformly?

157145 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Mark H, 1, #648 of 1997 🔗

I actually saw a video where an American official used exactly the same words in a speech as Johnson

157206 ▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 3, #649 of 1997 🔗

So, if a restaurant overcharges me every time, then it’s because they’re bad at arithmetic??

157069 ▶▶▶ John Galt, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 3, #650 of 1997 🔗

The company you work for, do you know what’s going on in the regional head office or do you just follow the work orders you’re given? If you’re part of the regional head office and you know what’s going on there, do you know what’s going on in the national head office or do you just follow the work orders you’re given? If you’re part of the national head office and you know what’s going on there, do you know what’s going on in the global head office or do you just follow the work orders you’re given? If you’re part of the global head office and you know what’s going on there, do you know what’s going on with the owners of the company or do you just follow the work orders you’re given?

The argument of “oh, how can they all be in it together, they don’t have the competence to do something like this” doesn’t fit because they’re not doing it, they’re just following orders. And to follow orders you don’t need to know what’s going on.

Remember when Boris made a big song and dance about herd immunity, the logical, intelligent response, and then suddenly u-turned? I wonder why that was.

157150 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 4, #651 of 1997 🔗

All politicians apart from the few who are “in on the game” have any idea what is really going on. They literally have no idea. They aren’t even on the first step of understanding the global scam that is The Corona Project. These ones “in the know” might think they know but they don’t either in most cases.

They are just useful idiots pushing an agenda they are told to push.

This scam is done on a need to know basis and very few people actually know or can see the whole picture. It’s just the pixels they see when they stand close to the screen, the rest is a blur.

157289 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 1, #652 of 1997 🔗

It’s not the politicians who are planning and orchestrating this.
They are definitely colluding though, deliberately or through wilful ignorance.

157026 ▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 4, #653 of 1997 🔗

I think the main reason this site is credible and also powerful is it rejects non evidence based polemics. If you prefer other angles to be published without an evidence base then look elsewhere or set up your own blog.

157054 ▶▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to Peter Thompson, 6, #654 of 1997 🔗

So you thought you’d provide your own evidence free polemic hey? The more this site puts its head in the sand as society is deconstructed before our very eyes the less credible it becomes.

The evidence of what this is really about is fully available for those who wish to see it. For others like yourself perhaps you would like to pretend this is simply a cock-up and if you are patient enough it will all be over soon that thinking will only get you so far.

If you wish to find out further look at the World Bank and World Economic forums for what they imagine is the re-purposing of opportunities. Planning that has been in place for years – not six months.

Look at the Rockefeller foundation and have a read of the Lockstep document that covers the initial stages very well.

If not then dream on because this is just the beginning.

157125 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 3, #655 of 1997 🔗

The point is that it’s irrelevant to the main evidence-based task of simply demolishing the dominant narrative, which is believed by the majority of the population.

157215 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to RickH, 2, #656 of 1997 🔗

If you manage to demolish the dominant narrative, you will ultimately begin to expose some of the elements of conspiracy. Sir Desmond Swayne is on the right track right now however, with his focus on the real world horrors being inflicted by lockdown measures.
In an ideal world, at a future commission of enquiry, every single element of who did what when and why, will be micro-examined, with sworn testament being taken.
The blatant fallacious fearmongering on ‘rising cases’ has to be exposed and challenged initially, along with the fundamentally flawed PCR results.

157277 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, #657 of 1997 🔗

100% correct. Speculating amongst ourselves as to reasons may be interesting, but it’s not the priority.

Using the “C” word will do more to harm than help our cause among those whom we must persuade.

157337 ▶▶ peter, replying to Seansaighdeoir, -1, #658 of 1997 🔗

Who do you believe, Toby Young and hill shill pals or Dr Heiko Schöning,?

156973 Humanity First, replying to Humanity First, 3, #659 of 1997 🔗

“The World Health Organisation was established solely to market Western medical products worldwide and at the most profitable rates possible. This means among other things by arranging that poor countries devote precious foreign exchange for the purchase of bulk pharmaceuticals of dubious value under the pretext of being able to treat their indigent populations for illnesses that are almost entirely due to poor nutrition, vile working conditions, polluted air, water and food and poverty.”


156992 ▶▶ LS99, replying to Humanity First, 6, #660 of 1997 🔗

Somebody mentioned a film the other day on here “The Constant Gardener” on this very subject. It’s pretty good.

I mean if you were a billionaire and you really wanted to do good in the world (assuming such a person might actually exist!) wouldn’t you fairly obviously just focus on food, water and shelter (i.e. the bottom of the pyramid of needs) and work up from there.

157029 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to LS99, 13, #661 of 1997 🔗

Yes, ask people why Bill Gates hasn’t used his billions to provide clean water for the poor, but instead is focused on vaccines?

157259 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Carrie, 4, #662 of 1997 🔗

Clean water and food wouldn’t lead to population reduction. Quite the opposite in fact.

157285 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to LS99, #663 of 1997 🔗
157279 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Humanity First, #664 of 1997 🔗

Well said!

156975 JohnMac, replying to JohnMac, 3, #665 of 1997 🔗

Martin McKee, professor of European public health, London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine: “What everyone is now recognising is that the best way to measure deaths is excess all-cause mortality.” (From the Daily Telegraph)

Can anyone explain this to me? What about the deaths caused by the lockdown?

157030 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to JohnMac, 1, #666 of 1997 🔗

Deaths caused by lockdown are included in the excess deaths.
The FT estimates that UK excess deaths in 2020 thus far are 67,500, which is 37% above the mean for previous years. So that would be 25,500 caused (presumably) by lockdowns.
I don’t know how often the FT actually updates their stats however.
And it’s a very rough and ready metric anyway. Any year with an especially high mortality from flu will throw out the comparisons. If we have high flu mortality at the end of this year, then I would consider the oldies having locked themselves away in the Summer to be a significant contributory factor. The Govt will say it is because people missed their essential flu jab.

Lies, damn lies, and statistics…


157116 ▶▶ RickH, replying to JohnMac, 1, #667 of 1997 🔗

He’s wrong in one respect. I bang on about this because its such an inbuilt fallacy.:

The term ‘excess deaths’ is imprecise, and depends on your ‘normal’ baseline which is a moveable feast, depending on its time span.

So : the smoothed mortality of the last quarter century describes a sine-wave, with the last ten years covering an unusually low level, now beginning to rise again. Any baseline using just the last 5-10 years will exaggerate recent mortality in terms of ‘excess’.

The reality is that this year’s mortality is above average, but not exceptional within a wider historical context.

Technically, the way you calculate a baseline regression can alter your ‘excess’ number quite dramatically : a straight line is very imprecise. The CEBM has an article illustrating this fact.

So – whilst it is useful – indeed essential – to outline a historical context, forget the term ‘excess’ as a useful one, with it’s implication of ‘abnormal’. It’s misleading.

One thing that currently concerns me is that we could well be coming back into a time of higher mortality generally, if (big if) the present cyclic trend continues. That could well assist a continuation of hysteria and manipulation.

156978 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 8, #668 of 1997 🔗

Professor Anthony Brookes says we’ve reached herd immunity.

Number of second wave deaths ‘nothing like’ that of first, professor tells Julia Hartley-Brewer

Geneticist and health data scientist Professor Anthony Brookes explains why he is “confident” that the deaths caused by a second wave of coronavirus will be “nothing like the amount of deaths we had in the first wave”


157117 ▶▶ FThem, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 3, #669 of 1997 🔗

Even if we aren;t at herd immunity, our murderous government crammed covid patients in to care homes where the vulnerable people are. Most of the vulnerable have probably caught it, a number of them died from it. I don’t think there is any mroe dry tinder left, even if the virus has spread nowehere except the carehomes (and we know it has been wider than that) we’d already be in a position where future spread won’t cause many deaths. What we need now is herd immunity against authoritarianism, how many defiant individuals will it take for the government to back down on their human rights abuses which they describe as laws?

157304 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #670 of 1997 🔗

I’m not sure we’re at herd immunity nationally. We were only lightly hit in the South West, it could still have some way to run down here.

157821 ▶▶▶ ajb97b, replying to DRW, 1, #671 of 1997 🔗

– Places like the South West still have a lot of “dry tinder” (if we must use that expression). But the prevalence of the virus there is so low there that it is struggling to take off again. But in time, it will!!
– Up North, and to some degree in the Midlands too, herd immunity is incomplete, and so the virus has flared up again significantly.
– In London, there is virtually no 2nd wave [increases in cases there are due to increased testing] , presumably because herd immunity there is well developed

156984 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 3, #672 of 1997 🔗

We’ve seen the rise of the ANTI BORIS.

This Boris no longer exists:
Brussels is taking a big liberty with children’s booster seats
By Boris Johnson, Daily Telegraph
21 September 2006 • 00:01 am

Of all the sensations of joy and release that Nature in her kindness has bestowed on the human race, there is little or nothing to beat the moment when you get rid of the baby’s car seat.

search: Brussels is taking a big liberty with children’s booster seats By Boris Johnson, Daily Telegraph


157022 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #673 of 1997 🔗

Maybe he got injected with Bill G’s DNA-changing vaccines while he was in hospital? Maybe he is patient zero for the new zombie population Bill has in mind?

156990 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 17, #674 of 1997 🔗

Just been talking to a friend who works for a catering company that specialises in delivering sandwiches and lunchtime buffets for businesses. She was saying that the restriction have completely killed their business. Before lockdown they had 20 staff, but they have had to get rid of 14 staff, and they’re now barely breaking even with just 6 staff. She believes that with no end to this being likely soon that she will lose her job as the company will more than likely fold in the next few months.

157005 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to JohnB, 7, #675 of 1997 🔗

Ditto – just spoken to the local window cleaner, gone from 10 guys to just him and a part-time helper.

157028 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to JohnB, 7, #676 of 1997 🔗

Tip of the iceberg.How many shops,restaurants pubs will not be able to pay rents etc.This feeds into landlords then to the banks.Systematic collapse on its way

157191 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to JohnB, 4, #677 of 1997 🔗

Local beautician,well established and set up 20 years ago, is now on a 3 day week, with 2 part timers still on furlough, but likely to be laid off if no improvement by end of October.

No facial treatments allowed-introduced out of the blue a few weeks ago,following a brief relaxation of the rules-concomitant fall in customer numbers.

Meanwhile Sturgeon is earning just less than £160,000 pa for destroying the economy and driving us all round the bend.

157249 ▶▶ Paul, replying to JohnB, 3, #678 of 1997 🔗

A chap I know has a taxi and he said his business is ‘pretty much dead’,his wife has also been made redundant from her hospitality job.

157753 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to JohnB, #679 of 1997 🔗

My workplace is not exactly in a good place either and given that there seems to be no takers with the second round of voluntary redundancies, it looks like we will be going into compulsory ones.

157001 Kevin 2, replying to Kevin 2, 3, #680 of 1997 🔗

Helped along by a whopping $1.2 billion infusion from U.S. taxpayers and $750 million from two Bill-Gates-backed global health organizations, Oxford’s assertive grab for frontrunner status has been reinforced by a friendly media, such as CBS’s recent statement that the Oxford vaccine “is widely perceived to be one of, if not the strongest contender among the dozens of coronavirus vaccines in various stages of testing” [emphasis added].Oddly, CBS furnished this ringing endorsement shortly after Oxford and AstraZeneca called a temporary halt to their clinical trials in five countries. The brief hold was prompted by a UK participant’s report, after her second dose of vaccine, of a serious adverse event —a demyelinating condition called transverse myelitis (TM) associated with pain, muscle weakness, paralysis and bowel and bladder problems. Two-thirds of those who experience TM remain permanently disabled. Belatedly, AstraZeneca also disclosed that the September pause was actually the second time-out in two months. The first incident, which initially went unpublicized, occurred in July when another UK participant experienced TM after one dose of vaccine and ended up with a brand-new diagnosis of multiple sclerosis (MS). TM is well recognized as sometimes being “the first symptom of an autoimmune or immune-mediated disease such as multiple sclerosis.”
According to the New York Times , not only did AstraZeneca “ not immediately inform the public about the neurological problems of either participant,” but it did not say anything publicly until “the information was leaked and reported by STAT.” Under the circumstances, the decision to restart the clinical trials only a few days into the September pause raised more than a few eyebrows, yet the British Health Secretary immediately hailed the decision as “ good news for everyone ”—and especially for AstraZeneca, which saw its share price largely rebound following a precipitous $11.3 billion drop in market value in the wake of the second pause. In the U.S., the media and top National Institutes of Health (NIH) officials hastened to spin the two pauses as par-for-the-course “ safety checks ” and proof that “ care is being taken,” also suggesting that the incidents could well be “ coincidental .” Whether the 18,000 clinical trial participants will find these soothing pronouncements sufficiently reassuring remains to be seen, however, especially given Oxford’s prevaricating participant information sheet (dated September 11), which states that the TM and TM-plus-MS incidents “were either considered unlikely to be associated with the vaccine or there was insufficient evidence to say for certain that the illnesses were or were not related to the vaccine.”

TM is not new Internet searches for “transverse myelitis” surged following the news that the Oxford/AstraZeneca clinical trials had been halted, but the term “myelitis” is nothing new. Myelitis, which refers to an inflammatory disease process affecting the spinal cord, is a component not just of TM but also of encephalomyelitis and acute disseminated encephalomyelitis (ADEM)—involving both brain and spinal cord inflammation—as well as acute flaccid myelitis (AFM) and, of course, poliomyelitis. Experts refer to these conditions as forms of “spinal cord damage not due to trauma .”
Based on analysis of information posted at the U.S. Court of Federal Claims website , conditions involving demyelination and paralysis—TM, ADEM, Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS) and chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy (CIDP)—are among the top vaccine injuries for which Americans (primarily adults) have filed claims with the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (NVICP). GBS is currently the NVICP’s second most compensated vaccine injury. Of the 330 TM-related petitions adjudicated to date, the program has awarded approximately $150 million in damages to 266 claimants (including estimated annuities), while dismissing 55 claims and leaving 9 still pending.

In prior years, most NVICP claimants linked their TM to hepatitis B vaccines, but in more recent years, tetanus-diphtheria-pertussis (Tdap) and influenza vaccines have become the principal suspects. A systematic review of TM case reports gleaned from 1970–2009 corroborates these claims, identifying 37 cases of TM associated with multiple vaccines given to infants, children and adults (including hepatitis B, measles-mumps-rubella and DTP) and showing that TM symptoms can arise anywhere from several days to several months and possibly several years post-vaccination. A more recent report by some of the same researchers also describes a case of TM following H1N1 influenza vaccination . The authors conclude :

[T]he induction of transverse myelitis post-immunization is plausible in view of the increasing frequency of case reports in the medical literature demonstrating this phenomenon as well as the growing biological evidence of a post-vaccination autoimmune pathogenesis.


157077 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Kevin 2, 2, #681 of 1997 🔗

It is because of the side effects – as you say known about for some time – that they are legislating to allow unlicensed vaccines to be used..

157236 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #682 of 1997 🔗

Standard US practice and we’re going down that route.

157122 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Kevin 2, #683 of 1997 🔗

Part 2:-

“Additional myelitis signposts It is important to remember that historical reports of myelitic conditions track closely with pediatric vaccination trends and with the concurrent rise in the very practice of injection. Describing a 1949 polio epidemic, for example, an Australian researcher reported “a relation, in a number of cases, between an injection of an immunising agent and the subsequent development of paralytic poliomyelitis.” In fact, clinicians of that era coined the terms “provocation poliomyelitis” and “provocation paralysis” to describe polio cases that followed pediatric injections . In the 1990s, observations of post-vaccination paralysis in Africa and India—AFM and acute flaccid paralysis (AFP)—sparked new interest in “polio-like” illness and the provocation phenomenon, and, over the past decade, African and Indian researchers (though not U.S. investigators) have continued to point to vaccines and injections as likely AFP causes .
The occurrence of not one but two cases of TM—a condition ordinarily reputed to be ‘rare’—ought to raise a red flag …
Another reason to question Oxford’s disingenuous attempts to decouple the two reports of TM from its vaccine has to do with the information readily available in vaccine package inserts. The inserts for vaccines on the U.S. market link TM—either through clinical trial data or post-marketing data—to 11 different vaccines, including vaccines involving various combinations of chickenpox, hepatitis B, human papillomavirus, influenza, measles and meningitis. For the conditions labeled “myelitis,” “encephalomyelitis” and “ADEM,” the inserts connect them to some of the same vaccines plus six others (including those against hepatitis A and diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis). Twenty-one different vaccine package inserts list GBS (also characterized by muscle weakness and paralysis) as an adverse event.
The occurrence of not one but two cases of TM—a condition ordinarily reputed to be “rare”—ought to raise a red flag because the Covid-19 vaccine, by its developers’ own acknowledgement, is highly reactogenic. The Oxford researchers’ July report in The Lancet (published around the same time as the first TM incident) indicated that a single dose of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine had a higher “reactogenicity profile” (a stronger inflammatory response) than the meningitis vaccine against which it is being compared. That is saying something, given that the type of meningitis vaccine being used as a comparison is itself notorious for producing serious adverse reactions—including TM. Commenting on this point, one observer who is favorable to the push for a Covid-19 vaccine but questions the Oxford group’s decision not to use an inert saline placebo has stated, “comparing an experimental COVID-19 vaccine that has so far been shown to cause a fair amount of physical reactions . . . to a meningitis vaccine that can also cause these temporary side effects will certainly paint a kinder picture of the COVID vaccine.”
What websites do not mention is AstraZeneca’s pattern of knowingly and systematically hiding negative information about its products and paying out millions in fines and settlements for false claims.
A dangerous pattern? In a surprisingly scathing critique of Oxford’s and AstraZeneca’s mishandling of the two TM incidents, the New York Times noted recently that “finding even one case among thousands of trial participants could be a red flag” and added that “[m]ultiple confirmed cases . . . could be enough to halt AstraZeneca’s vaccine bid entirely.” In the equally blunt words of a vaccine expert interviewed by the Times, “If a third case of neurological disease pops up in the vaccine group, then this vaccine may be done .”

What websites like The Motley Fool do not mention is AstraZeneca’s pattern of “ knowingly and systematically ” hiding negative information about its products and paying out millions in fines and settlements for false claims. As Jeremy Loffredo pointed out in a Children’s Health Defense commentary , this pattern of behavior should be taken into account when considering whether Oxford/AstraZeneca made the right call in rushing to relaunch the clinical trials. In the words of a former Harvard Medical School professor, “The dangers to the public for taking an unproven and undertested vaccine are [already] overwhelming,” and the “ opaque veil ” that limits transparency of the vaccine testing and approval process is only making a bad situation worse.”


157013 davews, replying to davews, 13, #684 of 1997 🔗

After visiting our local library site (just four of our dozen libraries open at the moment with huge restrictions) I emailed them:

I notice on your website you state:
“When visiting our libraries, you will need to scan the NHS QR posters
located at the entrance and within key areas of the building using the

You imply this is mandatory. According to the linked government
guidance ( https://www.gov.uk/guidance/nhs-test-and-trace-how-it-works )
organisations are required to offer T&T facilities to those who do not
have mobile phones or those not compatible with the app. Are you really
saying that you are refusing access to the many of us who do not have,
and have no need for, a mobile phone?

This growing insistence of T&T App entry is the most sinister yet. I await their reply.

157103 ▶▶ kf99, replying to davews, 7, #685 of 1997 🔗

Our libraries are removing newspapers and magazines. I assume permanently? So the digital divide gets wider. (Not to mention another nail in the coffin of the physical publishers if this national policy.)

157035 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 17, #686 of 1997 🔗

Wrote to Sir Desmond Swayne to thank him for this speech yesteray and received a brief acknowledgement.

That’s more than my local MP who is as useful as a chocolate teapot.

157222 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #687 of 1997 🔗

I suspect he got thousands of emails yesterday.
I told him not to bother with a response but I still got a short but personal thank you from him.

157754 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, #688 of 1997 🔗

Agree. His mail bag – both physical and electronic must be very busy.

157042 godowneasy, replying to godowneasy, 5, #689 of 1997 🔗

So this is what “Long COVID” REALLY means – extract from top story on RTE right now:

“The chief executive of the Health Service Executive has told the Oireachtas Special Committee on Covid-19 Response that even if a vaccine is developed, Ireland will be dealing with the virus for a long time.
Paul Reid said the country must adapt its way of life through a combination of behavioural, societal, and healthcare changes.
He also warned that the health service must expect and should plan for subsequent waves of Covid-19.”


That’s about as clear a statement of the permanent nature of their plans that I could imagine – i.e. NO WAY OUT even with a vaccine.

157070 ▶▶ Jo, replying to godowneasy, 3, #690 of 1997 🔗

Yes, Adam Rutherford with LC talking on the radio today. We all (or should) know that ICU treatment causes long term sequelae. Also other respiratory diseases are difficult to get over. I met a man recently who has spent a few weeks in hospital with pneumonia (NO COVID, and not in ICU) and he is still weak and going out now for short walks to try to build up his strength. But as if Covid isn’t enough, we now have Long Covid to hype up the situation even more.

157079 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Jo, 4, #691 of 1997 🔗

I’ve known a few cold viruses in the last few years that have had long-lasting effects. SARS-CoV-2 is no different.

157099 ▶▶▶▶ Adam, replying to RickH, 8, #692 of 1997 🔗

I had a bad cold/flu ten years or so ago, and had a very bad cough and lost hearing in my left ear. I have since had 3 grommets in the left ear to fix my hearing, and the tickly cough still persists. So even colds/flu can cause long-term damage. This long covid stuff is horseshit.

158501 ▶▶▶▶▶ Hoppity, replying to Adam, #693 of 1997 🔗

Yep. I had flu when I was 30, back in the 80s. A few days in bed, unable to move, and feeling like death warmed up (well, colder than cold, actually – couldn’t get warm), followed by about 6 weeks of fever on and off + feeling generally ropey.

157308 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to godowneasy, 2, #694 of 1997 🔗

Some people struggle to regain good health after they had a serious viral infection. This is nothing new, but now they use this to scare us into thinking that covid is sOOOO bad

Normally during a such a viral infection the body uses a lot more of certain nutrients that leads to various nutrient deficiencies in the body especially vitamin A, vitamin D, Vitamin C, Zinc, Selenium and Iodine.

The krebs cycle (producing energy) is one of the processes that becomes inefficient as it does not get the correct nutrients to run it properly.

157047 Mark H, replying to Mark H, 11, #695 of 1997 🔗

Let’s call a spade a spade.

If someone’s immune system creates a deadly response to a respiratory virus, it cannot be said they didn’t have an underlying health condition.

They did. As is demonstrated by their immune system’s response. That’s what killed them .

Our immune systems have evolved over countless generations to protect us against new viruses. When an immune system cannot protect the host from a virus, this is an underlying health condition.

A healthy immune system will protect, an inefficient immune system won’t. That’s an underlying health condition, albeit a previously undiagnosed one.

157061 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Mark H, #696 of 1997 🔗

This really isn’t helpful. Even if we used a different term for this concept, such as, say, “cursed”, then if you can’t tell whether you were cursed until after you’re dead does not make it a useful concept for planning or diagnosis. And co-opting a different, meaningful and useful term to refer to a meaningless or useless term is damaging to the debate.

157106 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Richard Pinch, 3, #697 of 1997 🔗

It’s like you are stuck in April.You are one of 2 people in the country who still believe in the validity of Ferguson’s model.The other one is him.
The government would have been better off asking Mystic Meg for a prediction and it would have been more accurate

157110 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #698 of 1997 🔗

I think they could form a threesome with Mayo 😉

157119 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Ewan Duffy, #699 of 1997 🔗

I don’t think he even believes in it

157151 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #700 of 1997 🔗

Does even Ferguson believe it? Broke lockdown didn’t he.

157184 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #701 of 1997 🔗

You did notice that neither Professor Ferguson nor his model was mentioned in this little thread until you brought them into it, I suppose? This is a discussion about assessment of underlying health conditions. If somebody is “stuck”, perhaps it isn’t me …

157262 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #702 of 1997 🔗

The government would have been better off asking Mystic Meg for a prediction and it would have been more accurate

Funnily enough, you can find Mystic Meg’s predictions for 2020 here . She doesn’t actually mention a pandemic at all …

158008 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Richard Pinch, #703 of 1997 🔗

Ha ha, you are correct, great post. Apart from ‘ October is your month to make or remake plans for a complete change of lifestyle’, obviously. (Pisces)

157290 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Mark H, 2, #704 of 1997 🔗

You are correct. Great post

157056 MizakeTheMizan, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 45, #705 of 1997 🔗

My company has made 25% of staff redundant, with numbers over 130 cut to below 100 in the last few weeks. I’m hearing many similar stories.

My wife is a pathologist, and she is seeing half the number of cases. Cancer hasn’t gone away, so people with curable cancer are going to present with incurable cancer.

My daughter is a nurse, and she arrives from work complaining of boredom because the wards are half full.

Sometimes my wife and daughter are in tears because they are not doing the job they desperately want to do.

The people that brought this chaos upon us must know all this, and yet they still add more restrictions, and not just in the UK. I cannot believe this is just incompetence now, it has to be directed, by whom and for what purpose I don’t pretend to know.

I agree with Toby Young and Brendan O’Neill on almost everything, but I am long past thinking we are in this situation because of incompetence.

157076 ▶▶ RickH, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 13, #706 of 1997 🔗

Yes. I think many of us resist ‘conspiracy’ theories because of past experience, Occam’s razor and the fact that they are not a good narrative when trying to convince the unconverted.

… but this shit-show is difficult to bottom just on the basis of incompetence.

157100 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to RickH, 10, #707 of 1997 🔗

…especially in the light of Boris openly referencing Bill G multiple times, committing the Uk to spending vast amounts on the WHO and also replying enthusiastically to Bill G’s tweets.

157102 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to RickH, 5, #708 of 1997 🔗

In every country, we need independent investigative journalists of the calibre of Woodward and Bernstein in their prime to pursue the truth relentlessly and forensically assemble all the evidence for how this has happened. These guys were threatened, abused and mocked for years, but their work eventually brought down the Nixon presidency. The standards of proof for any assertion need to be beyond a reasonable doubt. Let the chips fall where they may.

157143 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Richard O, 3, #709 of 1997 🔗

I agree. But the take-over of journalism by networked shills has been a long time in the making.

See : Nick Davies ‘Flat Earth News’ for an insight into the process by an insider.

157090 ▶▶ James, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 16, #710 of 1997 🔗

Doctors and nurses all over the world are speaking out against the dangerous, repellent murderous, actions of their governments . What is preventing your wife and daughter from joining other medical practitioners and speaking out in unison against this madness. I am not being rhetorical. I really want to know. People still trust doctors. If they spoke people would listen. We are getting past the point where keeping your job matters. The future of out civilisation is at stake here. They are not going to stop until they are stopped.

157163 ▶▶▶ R G, replying to James, 3, #711 of 1997 🔗

What is telling for me is that heads went above the parapet over Cummings’ trip to Barnard Castle, but nothing over the mothballing of the NHS.

157211 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to R G, 3, #712 of 1997 🔗

17 September:
Hospitals and councils have been told to find extra beds for coronavirus patients within two weeks as the NHS braces for a second spike in cases .

18 September:
10m to live under local lockdowns

comment image ?imwidth=680

157858 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 3, #713 of 1997 🔗

I see two problems with Brendan O’Neill’s reason for rejecting the concept of a conspiracy. First if it’s rejected before investing the facts of the matter, we will never uncover the truth, nor will journalists such as himself and Toby be asking about the flows of money… which is where the truth will surely be found.
Second, if there is an international fraud going on we need leaders to inspire us to fight back, as opposed to denying reason and instinct which both tell us that something is amiss, nothing adds up.
There’s room for more than one explanation at the same time, partly incompetence, partly principles-free lust for power, and partly the openly documented aims of the World Economic Forum, of Bill Gates, and of other super wealthy players.

157057 Adam, 13, #714 of 1997 🔗

Well my shithouse of an MP (Kit Malthouse) sent some shite, generic reply to a letter I sent. Said he understood people’s frustrations and proceeded to reiterate the rules. Gonna have to sharpen my knives and write back to the festering, jumped-up turd.

157065 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 16, #715 of 1997 🔗

It’s really getting to me today!

Yesterday, the HoC debated about the covid measures. There were brilliant speeches by Swayyne and Allen, pointing out how undemocratic the implementation has been.

Last week, Lindsay Hoyle accused Wankock of arrogantly bypassing Parliamentary procedure and yet, at the end of the day, what happened?

The North East locked down with no warning but with immediate effect!

Not only are dePiffle and Poppycock seriously taking the p*ss out of the electorate, this diktat should have been a red rag to a bull, as it was a clear mockery of the HofC.

What we really need is the discontinuation of the Covid Act but it’s been made clear that’s unlikely to happen.

Pauline Latham said ….. she would probably support new restrictions ….

Other MPs made similar arguments. It is not that they disagree with the powers per se , they told the chamber, but that they resent ministers assuming that they are doing the right thing such that parliament cannot even test their arguments .

Today is to be filled with a smokescreen of measures designed to fudge the impending unemployment numbers down and keep the jobless off the streets.

If the Act is renewed tomorrow, it will be a green light for the total annihilation of democracy in this country.

157073 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Cheezilla, 9, #716 of 1997 🔗

There have a been a handful of MPs who have finally stepped up to the plate this week. Sadly they remind me of similar “debates” in the House of Commons immediately prior to the Iraq War. We know how that turned out. At least a million dead, a country completely destroyed and a region permanently destabilised.

For me the question is not whether the Act will be renewed, but for how long.

157098 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Richard O, 1, #717 of 1997 🔗

If I remember rightly it lasts for 2 years but has to be voted on every 6 months?

157202 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #718 of 1997 🔗

Not sure about the every six months bit!

157131 ▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Richard O, 5, #719 of 1997 🔗

Nothing will happen and this will be renewed for another 2 years. None of our politicians have done fuck all to even try to oppose or fight these complete restriction and complete loss of pretty much all our liberties. Yes, some MP have written letters and spoke in Parlament.Give me a fucking break. This is like pissing in the wind, it’s an illusion of opposition ..And as much as I appreciate TY and this site has kept me sane , but sometimes I feel that is whole thing is like preaching to the choir.

157195 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Thomas_E, 2, #720 of 1997 🔗

I am under no illusions. The reality is that we have never lived in a democracy. The difference now is that our politicians are not even paying lip service to the sham.

157074 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #721 of 1997 🔗

Agree! I think we should not only be lobbying with regard to Parliament getting no say, but also on the clear involvement of Bill Gates (unelected) and his stooges in UK government policy – Boris has referenced Bill G several times now.

Otherwise the whole shenanigans will continue. Track n trace will merely slowly morph into daily tests and covipass, then vaccines…

157075 Jo, replying to Jo, 33, #722 of 1997 🔗

If you meet one friend in a pub in the North East you are committing a criminal offence. You will get a criminal record, if caught. Say it again – you will get a criminal record. I said to a male friend today, if you punch me to the ground, you will get done for assault and have a criminal record. However, (unless I am seriously injured) you are unlikely to be fined anywhere near as much as for meeting your friend in the pub (assuming you have no previous). What has happened to us?

157164 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Jo, 11, #723 of 1997 🔗

It is astonishing to witness, it really is. Socialising in pubs made illegal. The Taliban would have been proud.

157173 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Richard O, #724 of 1997 🔗

They must be pissing themselves. Where do I sign up?

157178 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Richard O, 7, #725 of 1997 🔗

The Taliban banned music too.

157078 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 5, #726 of 1997 🔗

More doom mongering. Form The Telegraph live feed (my emphasis):

War on virus won’t be won by creating tougher rules on people’s behaviour, says WHO special envoy

A World Health Organisation special envoy on coronavirus has warned against imposing stricter rules to control behaviour, arguing people must support the restrictions needed to slow the spread.

David Nabarro told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme: “This war, and I think it’s reasonable to call it a war, against this virus, which is going to go on for the foreseeable future , is not going to be won by creating tougher and tougher rules that attempt to control people’s behaviour.

“The only way that we will come out ahead of this virus is if we’re all able to do the right thing in the right place at the right time because we choose to do it.

“I think we will get the point, I just hope that it doesn’t require a lot more people to end up in hospital and dying for us all to get the point , that all of us, all of us, have to be rigorous about physical distance, wearing masks , hygiene, isolating when we’re sick and protecting those who are most vulnerable.”

So a recommendation against stricter rules, but the ones already in place will be there for the “foreseeable future”. How reassuring – not!

157157 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Tenchy, 7, #727 of 1997 🔗

Jesus. Cold war, war on drugs, war on terror, war on covid. Is that all these people can ever come up with?

157188 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to leggy, #728 of 1997 🔗

If you read Chasing the Scream by Johann Hari, you’ll see very clearly that these “wars” never benefit the populace.

157250 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Tenchy, 4, #729 of 1997 🔗

The WHO are in the pandemic business. Why would they want this to end?

157286 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Julian, 1, #730 of 1997 🔗

Exactly. WHO (with World Bank & IMF) scripted the world wide response of what countries and social media should do. Social media not to allow anything that is not part of the WHO message. So anyone questioning it gets censored (remember doctors speaking out in the beginning stating that ventilators kill covid patients), anyone talking about improving immunity gets censored, etc

157084 nocheesegromit, replying to nocheesegromit, 11, #731 of 1997 🔗

Would just like to say well done to Desmond Swayne, Pauline Latham, and Norman Lamont… and Right Said Fred of course!

157087 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to nocheesegromit, 2, #732 of 1997 🔗

Right said Fred?

157088 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to stefarm, 1, #733 of 1997 🔗

What have they said?

157089 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to stefarm, #734 of 1997 🔗

I’m a poet and I don’t know it

157097 ▶▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to stefarm, 2, #735 of 1997 🔗

They were at the protest on Saturday

157166 ▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to nocheesegromit, 1, #736 of 1997 🔗

Excellent, they are on Richie Allen show this afternoon

157199 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to stefarm, 2, #737 of 1997 🔗

What have they said?


157245 ▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #738 of 1997 🔗

Right, right

157095 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to stefarm, 4, #739 of 1997 🔗

They went on the march on Saturday and have been writing sceptic tweets!

157118 ▶▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Carrie, 3, #740 of 1997 🔗

I’m too sexy for my mask memes already doing the rounds

157136 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to PoshPanic, 3, #741 of 1997 🔗

Or how about “Don’t Talk, Don’t Kiss” which is a variant on one of their lesser follow up hits

157113 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to nocheesegromit, #742 of 1997 🔗

Pauline Latham said she would back the law, even though she said students should go home for xmas.

157121 ▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to JohnB, 2, #743 of 1997 🔗

That’s disappointing and pretty contradictory…

157180 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to nocheesegromit, 1, #744 of 1997 🔗

That’s what you get if you only pay them £80,0000 per annum.

157179 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JohnB, 1, #745 of 1997 🔗


157208 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #746 of 1997 🔗

She’s an absolutely useless MP.

157104 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 19, #747 of 1997 🔗


Spain have reduced their Pillar 2 PCR CT cycle from 45 CT to 30-35 CT.

The impact has shown a dramatic fall in symptomatic cases from 11,588 on 18 Sept to 2,425 on 28 Sept.

157109 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sarigan, 6, #748 of 1997 🔗

45 cycles! that would give a positive from testing bit of cheese.

157114 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Two-Six, #749 of 1997 🔗

Or a papaya!

157133 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Two-Six, 4, #750 of 1997 🔗

9,163 bits of cheese

157154 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sarigan, 1, #751 of 1997 🔗


157135 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Sarigan, 11, #752 of 1997 🔗

The government know this.They can end this crisis anytime they want.The fact that they haven’t despite the destruction of the economy does lead to the question.WHY?0

157189 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 14, #753 of 1997 🔗

They won’t stop. It’s no incompetence. They are doing this to us because of “The Great Reset”. The new Normal IS the goal, Agenda 2030’s 17 sustainable development goals is the target. Global lock was the primary objective, the virus is the catalyst for global social change, all the rest is propaganda and psychological warfare.

Wake up please.

157278 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Two-Six, 4, #754 of 1997 🔗

You are right

158021 ▶▶▶▶ helen, replying to Two-Six, #755 of 1997 🔗

Yes you are right. This is what Dr Schöning would have told the London demonstrators had he not been arrested.

157247 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 3, #756 of 1997 🔗

They would have to explain to the public that they got it wrong, and they would get slaughtered as a result. IMO the lies to save your own arse are more evil than lies in pursuit of an agenda

158047 ▶▶▶▶ helen, replying to Julian, #757 of 1997 🔗

With respect Julian …They are not getting ‘it’ wrong they are doing what they’re being advised to do

4SD or Skills, Systems & Synergies for Sustainable Development

‘On 21 February 2020 , Dr David Nabarro, Co-Director of the Imperial College Institute of Global Health Innovation at the Imperial College London and Strategic Director of 4SD, was appointed as one of six Special Envoys to the World Health Organization (WHO) Director-General on COVID-19. In this role, David provides strategic advice and high-level political advocacy and engagement in different parts of the world to help WHO coordinate the global response to the pandemic
. https://www.4sd.info/covid-19-narratives/

158051 ▶▶▶▶▶ helen, replying to helen, #758 of 1997 🔗

I guess he’s on the sage committee???

157194 ▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to Sarigan, 3, #759 of 1997 🔗

I wish people would give their sources. I can’t use this information just based on somebodies tweet.

157231 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Andy Riley, #760 of 1997 🔗

I will try and source it

157251 ▶▶▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to Sarigan, #761 of 1997 🔗


157381 ▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Andy Riley, 1, #762 of 1997 🔗

I seen a similar graph on video presentation earlier today. Such a dramatic fall would indicate methodology changes for sure. Henegen and Co love finding these kind of outliers to mark for further investigation as it indicates much of the noise is based o process rather than clinical realities

157107 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 6, #763 of 1997 🔗

More fear-mongering bullshit (from The Guardian):

“If anything, the numbers currently reported probably represent an underestimate of those individuals who have either contracted Covid-19 or died as a cause of it,” Mike Ryan, the WHO’s top emergencies expert, told a briefing in Geneva.

“When you count anything, you can’t count it perfectly but I can assure you that the current numbers are likely [probably] an underestimate of the true toll of Covid.”

Is this just an honest mistake about the number of deaths – surely it’s a gross overestimate – or does he know that he’s lying?

157115 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Tenchy, 8, #764 of 1997 🔗


157124 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, 5, #765 of 1997 🔗

He knows all right and any journalist with an iota of integrity would call it out.

157129 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Tenchy, 3, #766 of 1997 🔗

This report from February, highlighted the massive problems within the emergencies division of the WHO, including procurement fraud. I think the UK and numerous other governments have followed, an organisation that is in serious need of a deep clean.


157132 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tenchy, 2, #767 of 1997 🔗

If he doesn’t know he’s lying – then he’s too stupid to hold that position.

157123 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 12, #768 of 1997 🔗


A good one from The Critic ,for those who might not have seen it.


And another.

I wonder whether Covid Meister Shuttlecock and his goon squads read it; they should.

Finally, a glimmer of hope: when we went for our weekly walk in fine sunny weather today, my pal,who hitherto has ‘listened to Nicola’ and followed the increasingly incoherent and mind bending rules, opined,unprompted by me,that ‘folk are getting fed up’.

I agreed wholeheartedly,pleased to see signs of scales falling from obedient eyes, and she then went on to discuss the students’ plight: A neighbour’s son has just started his 1st year at Stirling and is now under house arrest.

So, even the Sturgeon followers are now starting to buckle under the strain.

We can but hope……

157155 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to wendyk, 8, #769 of 1997 🔗

Sir Christopher Chope rose slowly. “I’m not yet persuaded that I need to support the continuation of the Coronavirus Act,” he said.

I hope he brings his friends!

157170 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #770 of 1997 🔗

So do I!

157171 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #771 of 1997 🔗

The only way to prevent the Government from instigating a second lockdown would be a clear demonstration of mass opposition. This could and should be touched off by public declarations from leading figures in society that they refuse to obey the irrational diktats of a discredited and despised government and are prepared to take the legal consequences – fines or imprisonment – for doing so. For when a government defies common sense and flouts the common law, the common people it purports to govern have a right to break it too.

157190 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to wendyk, 7, #772 of 1997 🔗

I genuinely think there will be nationwide unrest if this Act gets renewed. I don’t think the government understand what a powder keg they are sat on.

157204 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Tom Blackburn, 10, #773 of 1997 🔗

There won’t be. The normies think the virus is deadly and is only being suppressed by mental rules that aren’t tight enough. The virus is spreading because “anti-government” types are breaking the rules, people not wearing masks are “sneering” at those that do and preventing the governments measures from working, The virus is spreading out of control because “idiots” in pubs are spreading it and not properly doing social distancing.

I read the local Facebook groups comments yesterday, that was a mistake.

157274 ▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Tom Blackburn, 7, #774 of 1997 🔗

I wish it were so but I think the majority will just go meh and suck it up. The best hope for sanity is when the BBC types/middle classes wake up to the fact that this WILL hit them too. It may take longer when you have money but it will affect you eventually. Plus other countries around the world where rioting is much more likely will concentrate politicians minds.

157441 ▶▶▶▶ R G, replying to KBuchanan, 1, #775 of 1997 🔗

The threat of a pensions raid and a CGT hike on second homes would end all of this in a week.

158146 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to R G, #776 of 1997 🔗

Don’t forget a wealth tax as well.

Plus the longer the likes of the City of London and Belgravia become ghost towns, that can affect pensions value as well – they will become as worthless as the mark in Weimar Germany.

157137 kf99, replying to kf99, 33, #777 of 1997 🔗

Desmond Swayne did not go to the same kind of school as me. He does not talk like me. He is not a similar age to me. He does not live where I live. He does not live in house like mine. But, he speaks for me.

Meanwhile, people like Sturgeon win votes regardless of what they say, because “she’s just like one of us”

157139 ▶▶ AnotherSceptic, replying to kf99, 14, #778 of 1997 🔗

El Presidente Sturgeon is nothing more than a dictator now.

157140 ▶▶ jb12, replying to kf99, 12, #779 of 1997 🔗

The problem is she is like many people in Scotland. I am Scottish, I live here, and I love the country, but you’ll be hard-pressed to find more bitter, spiteful people in such a small area as you find in Scotland.

157167 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to jb12, 8, #780 of 1997 🔗

Quite so; the resentment,the bitterness, the sense of entitlement plus spurious sickening virtue signalling and the regular eruptions of the Nat-Nazis is something to behold, and very depressing.

157431 ▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to jb12, 3, #781 of 1997 🔗

Which is why as a fellow Scot I live in “exile” in England. I got heartily sick and tired of the nationalistic bordering on racist streak of a significant number. I haven’t been back to the Auld Country for over 14 years now.

158136 ▶▶▶ AGM, replying to jb12, #782 of 1997 🔗

Couldn’t disagree more!!!

158156 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to jb12, #783 of 1997 🔗

Mr Bart is Scottish and will heartily endorse this comment. He said that’s what he dislikes about Scots – the pettiness, the spitefulness, bitterness and the racism and xenophobia. Not to mention sectarianism as well.

And don’t get him started on the chest beating “wha’s like us…..” about the Scots inventing this and that. He always finds it ironic that these pioneering Scots were either based in England or elsewhere when they made their discoveries and inventions.

157149 ▶▶ annie, replying to kf99, 14, #784 of 1997 🔗

Sturgeon is only one of you if you are a reborn Nazi crossed with a sub-Neanderthal zombie.

157181 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to annie, 3, #785 of 1997 🔗

And Scottish.

158148 ▶▶▶▶ AGM, replying to Rowan, #786 of 1997 🔗

Are you both pissed?

157372 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to kf99, 1, #787 of 1997 🔗

In my letter to my MP I made much the same point. That’s this is about your principles and commitment to democracy. It doesn’t matter if the other signatures on that piece of paper are your enemies on other matters

157141 Cheezilla, 7, #788 of 1997 🔗

Latest egregious scam is a survey invitation on fb to “help experts predict covid hotspots”
Unfortunately, people really are THAT stupid!!!

157142 James Bertram, replying to James Bertram, 7, #789 of 1997 🔗

Dr Heiko Schoning talks about his arrest at Speakers Corner:
Heiko Schöning, M.D. arrested unlawful at Speakers Corner London 26.09.2020, Interview on English https://acu2020.org/

157225 ▶▶ James Bertram, replying to James Bertram, 3, #790 of 1997 🔗
157233 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to James Bertram, 3, #791 of 1997 🔗

Yes – it’s highly recommendable as a concise summary of all the fallacies.

157276 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to James Bertram, 1, #792 of 1997 🔗

Transcript of the video

“Doctors (and lawyers) coming together. Responsibility in terms of professions, not right not legal and right in scientific way and not good for our patients. Democracy getting lost. Facts not add up. In EU the SARS co 2 virus is not corona virus (Hope I transcribed correctly). Measurements governments taken not in line with facts. 90% of surgical operations not taking place in Germany. Lots of suicides, economy going down.

Two questions
1.Who’s has the power to organise this in an orchestrated international way?
2. Who get to profit out of this?

The medical problem not important (see this statement in terms of a second language speaker). People are afraid, mass media and governments tell them to be afraid. One year ago I predicted something like this, the previous pandemic scares.

Need to inform other people and that it is hard. 99.5% of all newspapers in Germany coming from 5 private companies (official numbers).

‘Doctors for the Truth’ – new movement in various countries.

Do it again in October 2020 in Germany.

Lawyer from Netherlands – find consensus between all the parties in European countries (including UK)”

157146 Steeve, replying to Steeve, 4, #793 of 1997 🔗


August 2179 fewer deaths than 5 year average
Running total till 18th September 679 fewer deaths than 5 year average ( there may be a slight crossover with the August figure which may reduce this figure slightly)

The numbers of deaths in hospitals and care homes were below the five-year average in Week 38 (365 and 68 fewer deaths respectively), while the number of deaths in private homes remained above the five-year average (711 more deaths ).

157238 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Steeve, #794 of 1997 🔗

How does it look for the year to date? How is it compared to 2018?

157253 ▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to Julian, #795 of 1997 🔗

For England & Wales January to August 2020 34064 higher than 5 year Average. Do not have the figures for 2018

157296 ▶▶▶▶ Henry, replying to Steeve, #796 of 1997 🔗

So if we take off the ~16000 excess deaths without covid on the DC do we end up with an accurate-ish mortality figure for of/with covid deaths?

Of course it’s more nuanced than that simple calculation.

157303 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to Henry, #797 of 1997 🔗

Sorry Henry I was just updating the figures I will leave other calculations to others!

157315 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Henry, replying to Steeve, #798 of 1997 🔗

And a good job also (with one references), thank you!

157377 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Steeve, #799 of 1997 🔗

I think 2018 is available from same place – have found it before with a search

157438 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to Julian, #800 of 1997 🔗

Ok Julian – Will check it out!

157260 ▶▶ GAW, replying to Steeve, #801 of 1997 🔗

Is there a source you can link to?

157270 ▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to GAW, 1, #803 of 1997 🔗

4th Sept was 1443 fewer
11th Sept was 505 Higher

157148 Old Bill, replying to Old Bill, 6, #805 of 1997 🔗

I wrote a piece recently that I thought might amuse forum readers, but when I came to post it I couldn’t because it just said ‘Input too long’ despite having made strenuous efforts to keep it under 5000 characters. I am not going to cut it down having spent so long writing it, so instead I am posting a link to it on a file sharing site, so you can read it if you really want to. Sorry it has to be done that way but I don’t seem to have a choice.


157158 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Old Bill, #806 of 1997 🔗

good – worth a read !

157169 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Old Bill, #807 of 1997 🔗

Excellent! Very funny.

(PS: ‘In the year of Our Lord’ and AD are the same thing).

157203 ▶▶ annie, replying to Old Bill, #808 of 1997 🔗

Brilliant! *****

157405 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Old Bill, #809 of 1997 🔗

Excellent Thanks for the laugh – I needed one today.
Have you sent it to Toby?

157162 John Galt, replying to John Galt, 18, #810 of 1997 🔗

I emailed Sainsbury’s CEO about their email they sent out to everyone reminding us of the face mask rules and how they’re going to enforce it. I received a reply that was essentially exactly the same email as they initially sent out, then when I pressed further I received another reply this morning:

At present, we are following all government guidelines and will encourage our customers and colleagues to wear face coverings unless there is a medical exemption. I can confirm that our in store colleagues will not be challenging those without a face mask. I do trust this above gives you clarity and reassurance.

157314 ▶▶ stewart, replying to John Galt, 4, #811 of 1997 🔗

Take that with you and shove it in the face of the security guard when he stops you.

157168 Ian, replying to Ian, 6, #812 of 1997 🔗

I’ve just received, and deleted, the text exhorting me to download the TandT app. Where did they get my info from? I haven’t given permission for my details to be shared. Are there any freedom groups challenging the legality of this under GDR?

157174 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Ian, 3, #813 of 1997 🔗

Probably your GP.

157183 ▶▶ LS99, replying to Ian, 2, #814 of 1997 🔗

I get texts from my GP but, as yet, I haven’t had this text regarding the app. I suspect if you didn’t opt out of the data sharing – I think it was a couple of years ago and you had to opt out otherwise they said they would share your data centrally – that central NHS has your text details. It’s a hunch but I’ll update if I get the text!

157241 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to LS99, 6, #815 of 1997 🔗

Opted out but still received it. Yes they continuously move the goal posts with opting out and you have to contact them they don’t ask you when they change the terms.

157185 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to Ian, #816 of 1997 🔗

I received it yesterday but my husband didn’t.

157275 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Ian, 2, #817 of 1997 🔗

If you supplied your mobile number to your Doctors Surgery then you will receive a message asking you to install the T&T app. It’s on the NHS website, I got one last night and checked it and found that.

On 26th and 27th September, everyone over the age of 16 who is registered with a GP in England, and has provided an email address or phone number to the NHS, will receive an email or SMS asking them to download the NHS COVID-19 app.


It says 26th and 27th September but they must be sending out everyday now.

157904 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Ian, #818 of 1997 🔗

Go toCovid19.nhs.uk
subsection data and security, it is all explained.

157177 petgor, replying to petgor, 12, #819 of 1997 🔗

A friends daughter has had a letter from HMG asking if she would take part in being regularly tested for Covid over the next 12 months. She will receive £50 each time. I will say no more.

157182 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to petgor, 3, #820 of 1997 🔗

+positive each time, bargain for HMG

157223 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to petgor, 2, #821 of 1997 🔗

We are screwed. We are living a lie and there’s no way out.

157451 ▶▶▶ DomW, replying to Country Mumkin, 2, #822 of 1997 🔗

We are not the ones living the lie. It’s much worse for us because we can see it and all the people that have fallen for it.

157283 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to petgor, 4, #823 of 1997 🔗

She needs to take the money, run the swab under the tap and film it, then if it comes back positive show how ridiculous the test is, if negative just pocket the money every month.

157310 ▶▶ stewart, replying to petgor, 3, #824 of 1997 🔗

What a great way to use our tax money.
Sorry, I mean the tax money of our great-grandchildren…

157186 Richard, 4, #825 of 1997 🔗

Afternoon all,

A few thoughts from last couple of days :

Covid Act – sadly I think this will get passed – the problem is that the vast majority of rules are coming from the use (misuse) of Public Health Act – the Covid Act facilitates Furlow etc – suspect Hancock etc basically said to the backbenchers if you vote this down you are in the press for killing furlow and other support. However what I am surprised about it the level of engagement am getting from Conservative MPs – e-mailed Swaine today and got very quick personal response. I know others aren’t responding as much but to me it does support the importance of keeping the pressure up with logical arguments.

I think the university age kids problem is a big one for the government – it’s definitely the first time a lot of let’s say the most affluent families are actually being impacted – yes there was noise around the A levels but everyone was at home and retakes were always an option. The other issue is that the long summer is over and their kids who graduated are struggling to get a job – so the damage to the economy is becoming much more real. Saw a post on Guido I think which articulated the issue well – businesses to large extent have written off 2020 – but increasingly the uncertainty means investment in 2021 is looking difficult – there’s going to be lot of recent graduates without jobs.

Suspect the escape from London is also not going as smoothly as many thought either – all those houses need buyers and there are not many around !

157187 Sam Vimes, 7, #826 of 1997 🔗

Desmond Swayne just on Jeremy Vine, only heard it from half way through, but as you would expect. Some twat now wheeling out the “We must moderate the language” shite.
Vine being quite firm.

157198 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 29, #827 of 1997 🔗

Yesterday in the House of Commons, Matt Hancock repeatedly made it plain that the (constantly changing) lockdown restrictions will remain until there is a vaccine and it has been rolled out.

How can the Health Secretary be this stupid? To develop a vaccine safely will take years. To develop an effective vaccine is a fantasy. There is no coronavirus vaccine. Flu vaccines are never very effective; at most fifty percent, and even then they are not effective for older people, ie the people who are most vulnerable to the effects of this virus.

If Hancock means what he told the House (and I have no reason to doubt his sincerity), the government is determined to keep us in one form or another of lockdown for ever. This is madness.

What was even more depressing than Hancock was the fact that the so called opposition are fully in support of this strategy. Their only criticisms were along the lines of the government needs to implement its strategy more effectively.

Given this is the opposition, even if the Brady amendment is put to the House and is successful, it will merely result in the House rubber stamping the restrictions, just as it did with the Coronavirus Bill in the first place, which would provide the government with a veneer of constitutional and legal legitimacy for what is in fact totalitarianism by ministerial decree.

157209 ▶▶ Nicky, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #828 of 1997 🔗

I agree

157221 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #829 of 1997 🔗

Agreed. It will just be a rubber stamping exercise.

157227 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to Steve Hayes, 10, #830 of 1997 🔗

Depressingly, I largely agree. However having the debate each time will force the government to present their case – each time – and they will not be able to get away with incomplete, half of untruths in the same way. There will be a Hansard record – and, at sone point, it will come back to bite them- particularly where they haven’t followed any science at all. Our biggest chance is SDolan’s court case. Every single person on this site should be supporting that. If the measures were unlawful- that’s the end of this circus. It would be a brave judge to decide this but at the very least everything the government has done in the last 6 months would, in any JR case, be subjected to minute scrutiny. Whichever way the case goes, don’t this this lot would survive it.

157228 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Steve Hayes, 6, #831 of 1997 🔗

He’s not that stupid; he’s evil

157400 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Julian, 1, #832 of 1997 🔗

Perhaps both. He’s not that clever.

157650 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to John P, #833 of 1997 🔗

Certainly not clever, but I can’t believe he’s so dumb to not realise at some level it’s all been a mistake

157232 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Steve Hayes, 10, #834 of 1997 🔗

This continuous lockdown thing is all about the vaccine. Follow the money.

157243 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #835 of 1997 🔗


157272 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Steve Hayes, #836 of 1997 🔗

What are the processes for dislodging a Labour leader? Anyone know?

157327 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Tom Blackburn, #837 of 1997 🔗

Any Labour MP can trigger a leadership contest if they have the support of twenty percent of the party’s MPs.

157282 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Steve Hayes, 7, #838 of 1997 🔗

There will be a problem with concealing the number of vaccine related injuries in any mass vaccination rollout.
A huge number of people will be harmed, no doctor could give the vaccine without contravening his professional code of ethics to act in the best interests of the patient and to do no harm. An inadequately tested vaccine will be medically dangerous.

What the hell is going on that government ministers think it rational to talk like this?

157299 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Kate, 3, #839 of 1997 🔗

This is the greatest tragedy of all. We have drifted so far from rationality that even serious injury to a very large number of people may not make any difference.

157307 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Richard O, 2, #840 of 1997 🔗

The government know the lockdown restrictions have (and are) killed people. Yet, the persist in the strategy on the basis of claiming to be saving lives.

157305 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Kate, 2, #841 of 1997 🔗

I think many doctors have been contravening their professional code of ethics for the last 7 months by just standing by and not speaking up against this insanity. They’re all too far deep into this at this stage to turn back.

157300 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Steve Hayes, 6, #842 of 1997 🔗

So just roll out a vaccine – any vaccine – let anyone who feels the need to take it, take it and let’s be done with it all.

So long as nobody is forced to take it. If all the government needs to wiggle out of this mess it to have a vaccine available so it feels it has done its job, I’m fine with that.

In fact, I would almost enjoy seeing droves of people clambering to get a vaccine that has been rushed through. It would be their just reward for what they’ve inflicted on the rest of us with their irrational anxiety.

157319 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to stewart, 5, #843 of 1997 🔗

Actually, one way out for the government would be to present a harmless substance as a vaccine and roll it out with great fan fare, claiming to have won the war on the virus. They could pretend they were heroes and stop inflicting harm on us all. Any deaths from the virus could easily be identified as some other cause, such as pneumonia or flu. However, this exit strategy would require them to know, and admit to themselves, that they have made a terrible mistake. I am not persuaded that people like Hancock have that much insight.

157352 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to stewart, 3, #844 of 1997 🔗

It would provide short term relief but what we need is for this whole thing to be established as what it was – mass hysteria

Otherwise it will keep happening

157906 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Steve Hayes, #845 of 1997 🔗

Starmer is even worse than the brown shirts in training.
I guess he will score points that way.

157212 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 5, #846 of 1997 🔗

Ferguson comes for a lot of criticism – with very good reason – but what of our behavioural scientists? This country is a tinderbox. They have been abject. Have any of SAGE come out of this with any credit whatsoever?

157218 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Tom Blackburn, 12, #847 of 1997 🔗

The behavioural scientists were the ones who advised the government to increase people’s sense of personal fear.

157219 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tom Blackburn, 8, #848 of 1997 🔗

Good point. The SPI-B shower literally disgust me. The Goebbels Brigade.

157269 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to RickH, 1, #849 of 1997 🔗

Is there ever a point in time when the behavioural scientists say ‘we’ve lost too many people and no amount of repression will bring them back’?

You’d like to think so. Useless idiots.

157220 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Tom Blackburn, 10, #850 of 1997 🔗
  • The Gates Foundation funds the MRC Centre for Global Infectious Disease Analysis, a leading body advising world governments and the World Health Organization about infectious disease outbreaks
  • MRC Centre was co-founded by Neil Ferguson , a professor of mathematical biology at Imperial College London. Ferguson has produced a string of pandemic predictions over the past two decades that have turned out to be incorrect, including his Imperial College model for COVID-19, which predicted 2.2 million Americans would die if no action was taken


157224 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #851 of 1997 🔗

Yes, they have opened a Pandora’s Box which will take decades to close.

I don’t know all of the SAGE membership but don’t recall anything any of them have said that has been useful or honourable

157248 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #852 of 1997 🔗

No. And the fact that a Far Left extremist like Michie is on it, is quite incredible.

157256 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to OKUK, 3, #853 of 1997 🔗

The fact that a supposedly conservative government thought that would be remotely sensible or even acceptable rather beggars belief. At least, it would for anyone so out of touch with reality that they still believe the “Conservative” Party has any actually conservative people in its senior hierarchy.

157295 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to OKUK, 1, #854 of 1997 🔗

Stop obsessing.

157320 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Tom Blackburn, 6, #855 of 1997 🔗

Susan Michie given a platform on LBC earlier today. Oddly they introduced her as a “SAGE Scientist” but talking in a personal capacity.

She was quick to doom monger and blame it all on pubs and restaurants (and therefore commercial activity) ignoring the stats about universities and schools. Absolutely vile woman and an active communist championing lockdowns and massive state control.

She will probably become a “Dame” and end up in the lords.

157346 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Leemc23, 4, #856 of 1997 🔗

Vile woman peddling lies and rubbish not backed by evidence

157424 ▶▶▶▶ Edna, replying to Julian, #857 of 1997 🔗

I just saw this post by her on Twitter. It seemed rather hypocritical to me!

157646 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Edna, 1, #858 of 1997 🔗

Hypocritical or dangerously disconnected from the reality that policies she advocates have contributed to this

157715 ▶▶▶ Polemon2, replying to Leemc23, #859 of 1997 🔗

She is a member of the Communist Party of Britain (CPB), but donated to the Labour Party [15] under the Corbyn leadership. In March 2018, Michie, described as a leading member of the CPB, said that the party would no longer stand against Labour in general elections and CPB members should be “working full tilt” for the election of Corbyn as prime minister”

So I think we know enough.

157234 Sceptic in Oxford, replying to Sceptic in Oxford, 7, #860 of 1997 🔗

Hello fellow sceptics

Please, please, please write to your MP to ask them to vote against the continuation of the Coronavirus Act tomorrow. The more of us who write, the more they will take notice.

It doesn’t have to be fancy or long or complicated. It’s a numbers game to show we, their constituents who pay their wages, are utterly p*ssed off.

Peter Hitchens has tweeted out some suggested wording, or here’s “one I made earlier”! Feel free to use.

There is a crucial vote in parliament tomorrow which, unless voted down, will allow this Government to continue its unfettered powers under the Coronavirus Act.
The Government’s actions are causing monumental damage to our lives, livelihoods and liberties.
It is the duty of an opposition party to challenge Governments and to hold them to account. To-date, in part due to the Act, this has not been done.
There is now significantly more data about the Sars-Cov2 than when the Coronovius Act was initially passed, notably on its treatability and survivability which mean that the draconian measures allowed by the Coronavirus Act must not be allowed to continue unchallenged.
I am therefore imploring you to vote against the continuation of the Act so that this Government is forced into being held to account for each of its new measure.
Yours sincerely

157361 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Sceptic in Oxford, 2, #861 of 1997 🔗

I wrote to mine and focused squarely on the fact he would be handing rule by decree over to a Boris Johnson government whom I know he despises. Yet to get a reply. He’s an MP from a Northern Ireland party.

157235 Thomas_E, replying to Thomas_E, 27, #862 of 1997 🔗

Went to Nando’s for a quick lunch. Asked to wear a mask, said exempt but the girl on the door asked for proof..Told her that idol not one and if she ask me she will be breaking the law. She asked the manager who came over,apologised and said that she is new..Normally would not be so strick as she is only doing her job but I have on battle path since the last Gov stupidity..

157252 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Thomas_E, 7, #863 of 1997 🔗

Well done – we need to keep educating people about the Equality Act 2010 and the need not to provide details of why we won’t / can’t wear a mask.

See more details on nomasks.info

157281 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to Thomas_E, 7, #864 of 1997 🔗

You are right. These people need to experience pushback. They are being encouraged by people in authority who do know better…they need to be made to feel that they are between the devil and the deep, and that enforcing stupidity is not a one way bet (to mix metaphors)

157312 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Thomas_E, 1, #865 of 1997 🔗

Ignorance is not a defence

157465 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Thomas_E, 1, #866 of 1997 🔗

All new staff should be trained. She clearly was not, maybe on purpose?

158187 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Victoria, #867 of 1997 🔗

That’s what I’ve long suspected with the staff that I’ve encountered. Its shocking that they don’t know anything about exemptions, the Equalities Act and GDPR.

157561 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Thomas_E, #868 of 1997 🔗

I wonder – if you had offered to meet up with her for a socially distanced cuppa and help explain why they shouldn’t be mandatory (either from a scientific or human rights perspective) – would she have taken you up on it?

A lot of these people are just doing what seems like the responsible thing based on the propaganda they have seen.

I’m going to try this tactic next time, I’m not expecting I’ll have much luck but even if I get a 1/10 hit rate that’s better than nothing ha.

157244 Schrodinger, 12, #869 of 1997 🔗

Just a reminder for those who may have missed my posts earlier in the week. I’m trying to encourage people to download, print and distribute literature to start making people sceptical. IMHO we need to do more than sit behind a keyboard.

My leaflet can be downloaded from the links below

Low Res JPG


High res pdf with 3mm bleed for printing


Any decent printing company should be able to print them.

I used


(I have no association) who printed and sent me 500 very quickly for around £27

I personally just feel better from knowing I am actually doing something (and I know not that many may take notice) positive by putting these through people’s’ letter boxes.

157254 Kate, replying to Kate, 5, #870 of 1997 🔗

This is an extract from my response from my MP Caroline Lucas.

I am not sure whether she will adhere to her promise not to vote for renewal, she has left herself wiggle room.

On vaccination, she is a bit behind the curve. Tobias Ellwood in the link Basics put up earlier, was talking about bringing in the army to do mass vaccinations. Again she is being disingenuous – mandatory in all but name, eh?

On September 30 th , Parliament will be debating a motion relating to renewal of temporary provisions under Coronavirus Act 2020. My current position is that the powers the Coronavirus Act afforded the Government and various agencies etc have run their course and that time should be called on them. I will therefore be voting against its renewal, or for significant amendment, depending on the latest R rate and other scientific updates at the time.
On vaccination, there is nothing to suggest this will be mandatory, despite significant and dangerous misinformation to the contrary, and I would oppose such a move.

157263 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Kate, #871 of 1997 🔗

I will just put up Basics link again, for reference.


Ellwood is on at 20.24

157805 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Kate, #872 of 1997 🔗

Thanks. Listening to it now.

Main points: Mobilise the military for the logistics of vaccinating the whole population. Will take a long time, perhaps a year to complete. In the meantime, run a two-tier society where those who have been vaccinated will want to live “normal lives” and those who haven’t will continue to suffer restrictions.

Britain will share its experience in vaccinating the entire population with the rest of the world so they can gain the benefit of her experience. The military needs authorisation soon so that they can begin to plan logistics. [I think he wants to head up this effort himself.]

I believe this is a true summary of what Ellwood says but obviously you might want to add or correct what I’ve said.

Me: Chilling. I live in his constituency. I know why he doesn’t respond to my emails.

157343 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Kate, #873 of 1997 🔗

I’d say that is promising

More than my Tory MP did – she flatly refused to rule out mandatory vaccinations

157273 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #875 of 1997 🔗

Unbelievable MP Clip NO HOPE Bravo Kay Burley

This is truly pathetic. What hope is there? They’re utterly clueless…. This is some Government junior minister trying to explain government policy. obviously her junior minster’s salary, which can’ t be that much than a back bench MP is more important than the fate of the country

youtube com/watch?v=SkPjPyIs2Kk

157280 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #876 of 1997 🔗

Saw this on Twitter. Burley let the Minister get away with saying cases were doubling, even agreeing. That aside, decent effort.

157309 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 4, #877 of 1997 🔗

Burley is shit, a disgrace to journalism

157329 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to stefarm, #878 of 1997 🔗

I noticed early on that she just decided to be the opposite of Piers Morgan. Brown nosing ministers. I’m not sure if that is still the case.

157347 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to stefarm, #879 of 1997 🔗

I agree. Finishing her recent interview with Hancock with a laugh and “You’re doing a great job” said it all.

She should be spitting on the ground as he leaves

157284 Jo, replying to Jo, 15, #880 of 1997 🔗

Oh for Fuck’s Sake!!
You and Yours, Radio 4 phone-in.
“Universities are the new Care Homes of the Second Wave.”
Oh please.
I give up.

157294 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Jo, 12, #881 of 1997 🔗

Oh that shit again. How many students are elderly and/or immunocompromised? And of this tiny minority, how many will be on campus? Unis just really want moonshot.

157326 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Jo, 1, #882 of 1997 🔗

What whopper said that? That is an insult to both old and young

157340 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #883 of 1997 🔗

Deeply offensive in every possible way

157365 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Jo, #884 of 1997 🔗

The UCU started this catchphrase.

157435 ▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to mattghg, 2, #885 of 1997 🔗

It would be impossible for me to overstate my contempt for my union, UCU.

157293 Tiberius, replying to Tiberius, 4, #886 of 1997 🔗

I see the three stooges are to give a press conference tomorrow. Vallance will no doubt raise Boris a grand, but I suspect Whitty will win the hand – coqs down.

157302 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Tiberius, 9, #887 of 1997 🔗

Oh for fuck sake. More doom and gloom. Can’t take much more of this.

On the day they extend their emergency powers by another 6 fucking months.

As I posted last night from Nature – vaccine is not gonna magic bullet this bullshit away & even dropping my daughter at school has become me v the world. Everyone in a mask in the play ground except me !!!

Maybe I am the insane one.

157324 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Leemc23, #888 of 1997 🔗

Any chance anyone will get to probe their last lot of lies?

157423 ▶▶▶ Karenandincredulous, replying to Leemc23, 5, #889 of 1997 🔗

No you’re definitely the sane one, what depresses me is mums buying fashion accessory masks! And matching ones for the kids. Now that is insane, I hope that when they realise these disgusting things cost more in the long run than tissues and soap!

157755 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Leemc23, #890 of 1997 🔗

stay strong.

157313 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Tiberius, 3, #891 of 1997 🔗

Another fear blast to stop the rebellion?

157348 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Tiberius, 4, #892 of 1997 🔗

Great. Another clown show. Cases have now been falling for the past 3 days but what have the facts got to do with anything? No doubt they will have come up with even more ways to make our lives even more miserable.

157498 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Chicot, 1, #893 of 1997 🔗

Deaths have been falling for five days. More relevant statistic to sane people.

157384 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tiberius, 1, #894 of 1997 🔗

Again? Any idea why? Can’t see how they could justify lockdown this week if they didn’t last week…

157415 ▶▶▶ Ian, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #895 of 1997 🔗

It’s to offer a profuse apology to the British people for denying us of our rights and freedoms established for thousands of years, to apologise to schoolchildren for denying them an education, to the elderly for denying them the chance to see their families and loved ones, sometimes in their last few days here with us, and to announce severe punishment for politicians, town hall and educational jobs worths who imposed these stupid restrictions. So I believe.

157397 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Tiberius, 1, #896 of 1997 🔗

I’m wondering what the Creative Graph Drawing department will come up with next.
In my wilder fantasies I hope Boris will do a Trump and say “You’re fired!”. Shame that won’t happen.

157517 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Tiberius, 1, #897 of 1997 🔗

Be good if it was their resignations then honourable seppuku the traditional way or taken off in handcuffs for trial for treason.

157311 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 7, #899 of 1997 🔗

Gomes succeeded to get her study printed

Trajectory of COVID-19 epidemic in Europe
“Models that allow for heterogeneity favour build-up of herd immunity rather than non-pharmaceutical interventions as the main factor underlying the early slowing and reversal of the COVID-19 epidemic in Europe. This is consistent with observations that epidemic curves in many countries reached a peak less than two months after the first few severe cases appear”“Because the model is fitted to observed deaths, the estimates of cumulative numbers infected and herd immunity threshold depend on the values pre-specified for infection fatality ratios. Specifying an average infection fatality ratio of 0.3% gives an estimated herd immunity threshold of 15%.”“One objection that has been raised to estimates that herd immunity thresholds for COVID-19 are less than 20% is that far higher infection rates have been reached in local hotspots such as Manaus . However country-level herd immunity thresholds as estimated here are not likely to be homogeneous over every locality. In hotspots where the basic reproduction numberR0 is higher than the population average, the herd immunity threshold and overshoot of this threshold will be correspondingly higher, with or without heterogeneity”
The big difference between Gomes and others is that she thinks herd immunity stop the transmission but the other group quoting a higher herd immunity level necessary, thinks that lockdown stopped the pandemic worst outcome.Lockdown fanatics (like Fauci) can never accept lower herd immunity because that would imply that lockdown had no effect.
Interestingly, at the same time another important publication of the C-19 trajectory in certain poor third world countries with remarkable low death rate. These are signs that the pandemic has petered out in these countries and very different from situation in western world. Herd immunity seemed to have been reached. The investigators are just following ordinary modelling and applying them to observed curves and serology is not included in the study.

Evolution of COVID-19 cases in selected low-and middle-income countries: past the herd immunity peak?
“We have studied the evolution of COVID-19 in 12low-and middle-income countries in which reported cases have peaked and declined rapidly in the past 2-3 months. In most of these countries the declines happened while control measures were consistent or even relaxing, and without signs of significant increases in cases that might indicate second waves. For the 12 countries we studied, the hypothesis that these countries have reached herd immunity warrants serious consideration.”“The results suggest that between 51 and 80% of the population in these countries have been infected, and that between 0.05% and 2.50% of cases have been detected –values which are consistent with findings from serological and T-cell immunity studies. The infection rates, combined with data and estimates for deaths from COVID-19, allow us to estimate overall infection fatality rates for three of the countries. The values are lower than expected from reported infection fatality rates by age, based on data from several high-income countries, and the countries populations by age.”
This study uses the traditional calculation of high herd immunity required for that reproduction number. They don’t get into seroprevalence studies in these countries (which sometimes have been quite high).
So interesting to see how this article will be reconciled,if possible, with the first article.But still bad news for lockdown fanatics as these third world countries in some places did not have SD or lockdown at all. Some of them had lockdown, but all had the same outcome.

157328 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, #900 of 1997 🔗

Thanks for that posting, swedenborg.

Initially, I felt that Karl Friston’s modelling of contributory variables, and his identification of the ‘dark matter’ issue (i.e complex, unndetermined interactions affecting differential Covid-19 progression across countries) was promising.

However, that was back in June, and I’ve seen nothing since – ????

157360 ▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to RickH, #901 of 1997 🔗

Have you seen Hendrick Streeck and Soo Aleman’s work? I feel there isn’t a specific percentage, and that we need to be compounding multiple things that sit in ranges. I.e. Ig-A antibodies might provide short-lived but highly effective and highly specific immunity – whereas less specific antibodies might offer a lower level of protection… but that those less specific antibodies might cause things to go bad when the immune system is functioning badly and effectively cause the body to attack itself in the worst case.

157318 yohodi, replying to yohodi, 6, #902 of 1997 🔗

I know it’s old news but on looking again at ‘Event 201’ held in New York 18th Oct 2019. Involving the John Hopkins Centre, World Economic Forum, and the ubiquitous B&M Gates Foundation, (simulation of a Novel Zoonotic Corona virus pandemic) the actual scenario, looks remarkably similar to current events…Probably just a coincidence, I mean they do happen, don’t they?..

157350 ▶▶ John Galt, replying to yohodi, #903 of 1997 🔗

The Lockstep scenario in May 2010 as well:
comment image

157450 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to John Galt, 3, #904 of 1997 🔗

This is JUST a scenario. lol

Nothing to see here.

157385 ▶▶ John P, replying to yohodi, 5, #905 of 1997 🔗

This again!

It would be remiss of governments not to plan for the eventuality of a global plague!

I am sure that many of the procedures and imposed restrictions have indeed been planned in advance.

The problem is that this is not a global plague. They pressed the “nuclear” button by mistake!

157445 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to John P, 2, #906 of 1997 🔗

Everybody who wants to minimise event 201 says this, “well its natural that these people would plan for a pandemic, that is all it was, a planning thing”. Yes they planned this pretty well. The panning exercise went live and its not the only time this has happened either.

157321 Sir Patrick Vaccine, 4, #907 of 1997 🔗

Watch: Bumbling Boris Can’t Understand His OWN Rules

157323 BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 19, #908 of 1997 🔗

Eric Clapton is asking to warm himself by the fire with Van?

157495 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 4, #909 of 1997 🔗

Glad to see it. Waiting for other musicians to realise that their careers are over unless this ends – and then say something.

157325 Richard O, replying to Richard O, 36, #910 of 1997 🔗

Leaving aside the question of motives, I have found it remarkable how completely ice cold and devoid of empathy all the public figures worldwide have been whenever they have addressed us regarding the policies they are imposing. They are not even attempting to give the slightest appearance of caring, or of offering any kind of hope for the future. Even the worst dictators of the 20th century made empty promises to their people. This shabby lot have dispensed with the pretence of saying they are working for the public good altogether. In this regard, if no other, they are at least being honest with us.

157332 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Richard O, 11, #911 of 1997 🔗

Totally agree. There seems to be such a pervasive pessimism in the way they speak to us.

157338 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to Richard O, 9, #912 of 1997 🔗

I know it is possible to look at Boris and think he is just an over-educated idiot hopelessly out of control of events, but can every world leader be the same?
Are they all clueless idiots blindly following emperor Xi’s plan?
Or are they in on his evil plan?
Their actions make no sense unless it is a conspiracy.

157349 ▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to 6097 Smith W, 8, #913 of 1997 🔗

I think, in all honesty, it’s not every other world leader that’s acting this way. Having been in Germany in the past month the level of hysteria v U.K. is noticeably less. Yes there is some measures (face coverings indoors) that annoy. But overall there is some measure. I hear the same applies in Netherlands as another example. And even states in the US are acting a bit more grow up now. I suspect we just keep hearing about those that match as that supports the narrative. In absolute fairness even China is no longer acting the clown like we seem intent on doing.

157368 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Leemc23, 5, #914 of 1997 🔗

Seems there’s a good reason for discouraging foreign travel.

… but it isn’t for the good of the nation.

157370 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Leemc23, 12, #915 of 1997 🔗

Fair observation. Ron DeSantis in Florida being a prime example. He has straight up admitted that lockdown was an unmitigated disaster and will never happen again on his watch. He even rescinded the state wide mask mandate (although he will need to go to work on his local government officials to make this a reality).

157392 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Richard O, 10, #916 of 1997 🔗

Zealots absolutely hate him for achieving less mortality than New York despite the larger and older popualation.

157413 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to DRW, 10, #917 of 1997 🔗

This is a feature of all the virtue signallers that is a dead giveaway of their true nature. They get upset when death figures go down because it doesn’t fit their narrative. Psychopathy of the highest order.

157418 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Karenandincredulous, replying to DRW, 4, #918 of 1997 🔗

Floridians tend to be older but extremely health conscious.

157434 ▶▶▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to Leemc23, 4, #919 of 1997 🔗

True to an extent but Netherlands is supposed to introducing the 10pm closing time (after the great success here?) and China already has the social credit system and one party rule they don’t need to impose them.
It can’t be that only Belarus, Brazil, South Dakota, Sweden and Tanzania have leaders with a clue

157359 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to 6097 Smith W, 10, #920 of 1997 🔗

Irrespective of why this is being done, it is still astonishing that our so-called political and social leaders have completely dispensed with the veneer of trying to build a better society and future. They simply do not care, and in many cases are openly relishing the misery they are inflicting (think of Bill Gates giggling like a teenage girl when being asked about the economic suffering being inflicted worldwide by the Covid measures). If I was directing a conspiracy I would make damn sure that my PR department was working in overdrive to cover my tracks and provide plausible deniability.

157407 ▶▶ Roadrash, replying to Richard O, 4, #921 of 1997 🔗

We are all just statistics to them. Numbers on a page no more. They have zero appreciation on the actual affect on people’s lives their actions are having and simply don’t care.

157330 NickR, replying to NickR, 5, #922 of 1997 🔗

Not sure I quite buy the Government line on all this.
Classic, ‘The Thick of It’ moment this morning on The Today Programme on BBC Radio 4 when the clueless minister didn’t know whether people from different households could mix in a pub garden! I could just picture Malcolm Tucker ranting & raving outside the glass & the witless minister looking terrified as her career vapourised in front of her…… but then she, apparently hadn’t got the answer later on in other interviews!!!! The utter incompetence of these people is remarkable.

157463 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to NickR, 1, #923 of 1997 🔗

The chart will also look different if it start on 1 April and not at the lowest point of infections

157482 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Victoria, 1, #924 of 1997 🔗

Yes, you’re absolutely right. Playing games with charts has a long and dishonourable history.

157565 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to Victoria, #925 of 1997 🔗

You mistake me for a covid denier. I think it’s real enough but the response is out of all proportion to the threat, that the steps taken won’t make a lot of difference to the outcome, that the vaccine will take a long time to arrive and when/if it does is unlikely to be more than 50% effective & will create some post vaccine problems for some people. That the consequential results in terms of blood and treasure will be far more costly to society than the virus ever would be.

157515 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to NickR, #926 of 1997 🔗

You need to change the scales – it doesn’t look scary enough how you’ve done it.

0-1000000 on the positive tests, 0-300 on the hospitalisations will do it though nicely.

157333 Liam, replying to Liam, 16, #927 of 1997 🔗

I’m having my worst day so far. Wasn’t physically or mentally capable of driving youngest to school this morning and I’m only just out of bed.

157342 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Liam, 12, #928 of 1997 🔗

Sorry to hear that! Horrible to see what they’re doing to people. I guess that’s the downside of being intelligent and seeing through the silliness, hope you feel better soon.

157354 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Liam, 10, #929 of 1997 🔗

I have been there and I know how that feels. Whatever it takes mate. Get up and get out. You are not alone. Take care and remember your kids need you more than you will ever know.

157355 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Liam, 14, #930 of 1997 🔗

Your reaction is one among many.

These bastards – whether incompetent or conspiratorial – deserve to be brought to book.

157366 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Liam, 8, #931 of 1997 🔗

Don’t let the b@stards get you down.
Take a break from the news,and find something to take your mind off it, like a book, or movie, or some comedy on YouTube, mostly anything pre-2016 when it all went kablooey.
You’re not alone and there’s finally some more serious pushback. It will end, nothing is forever, and if the Tories feel threatened in the ballot box they’ll dump Boris and Hancock like an over-ripe turd.

157369 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Liam, 5, #932 of 1997 🔗

I understand, I barely feel like doing anything most days. But your family matters infinitely more than all this, don’t let it get in the way of them.

157428 ▶▶ Roadrash, replying to Liam, 14, #933 of 1997 🔗

Mate a lot of us have been there or are going through the same and I know how hard it can be to see through the fug and find any positives. I find simple things like exercise do help or looking at how nature around us is just getting on with life. Even with the masked Wombles everywhere I find it reassuring when the roads are busy as signs that most people are carrying on as normal. There’s a house behind me with builders working on an extension, just working away with the radio on laughing and joking with each other. So if you can find a bit of normality anywhere just focus on that.

Most of the Twitter/ social media lock down zealots are just knobheads. The sort of virtue signalling idiots who like to make themselves feel superior. I’d avoid them and the usual media channels if you can. We can all make a difference in our limited way if even just to give support and recognise that there are many others who share the same views.

157997 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Liam, #934 of 1997 🔗

Don’t let the bastards grind you down.

157336 godowneasy, replying to godowneasy, 19, #935 of 1997 🔗

Big Al declares victory (courtesy of theblogmire)

157378 ▶▶ DRW, replying to godowneasy, 9, #936 of 1997 🔗

Three days later: 2 new Covid cases, fresh lockdown imminent.

157688 ▶▶ leggy, replying to godowneasy, #937 of 1997 🔗

2023 is incredibly optimistic…

157339 IMoz, replying to IMoz, 4, #938 of 1997 🔗

According to the ONS, deaths for week 38 (ending 18 Sep) of 2020:-

Total: 9523 (down from 9811 prev. week, up from 8945 5Y average)
‘flu/pneumonia: 1197 (up from 1125 prev. week)
COVID-19: 139 (up from 99 prev. week)

‘flu/pneumonia:COVID-19 ratio is just over 8.6:1 (11.4:1 prev. week), COVID-19 mentions as a proportion of all-cause deaths: 1.46% (prev. week 1%), ‘flu/pneumonia: 12.57% (prev. week 11.47%). Looks like a seasonal respiratory infection rise to me. Why are those nosophobic of COVID-19 not getting referred to psych. yet???

source: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending18september2020

157351 ▶▶ RickH, replying to IMoz, 1, #939 of 1997 🔗

Just looking at the overall picture of all-cause mortality up to the latest ONS data (Wk. 38)

You can see that the short sharp rise after the bank holiday recording blip clearly illustrates the folly of those ‘exponential’ scare stories based on a non-indicative uptick.

Of course – what we all knew : since the April spike, mortality has been trundling along at totally unexceptional levels, even gauged by recent years of generally low mortality.

The stark divergence between the government measures and reality is starker than ever..

157396 ▶▶ Adamb, replying to IMoz, 3, #940 of 1997 🔗

Yes, the fact that Swedish cases are rising despite no change in regulations certainly suggests nothing more than a mild seasonal effect.

157532 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Adamb, 1, #941 of 1997 🔗

And from 15th October the 50 person limit for gatherings in Sweden is being lifted to allow 500 under certain circumstances: https://twitter.com/jhnhellstrom/status/1310883959765635072

NB: This IN SPITE OF a small rise in cases and hospitalisations!

Take note, Boris and Hancock! (though doubt they will…)

And MSM, what was that about forthcoming local lockdowns in Sweden?????

157341 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 26, #942 of 1997 🔗

Question: Does anyone know of any business that has been closed down due to not adhering to COVID regulations?

And, just a thought, why, if I am North West Essex’s granny-killer-in chief, is our shop absolutely heaving with people in that exact demographic. Have they not got the memo?

157345 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to kh1485, 1, #943 of 1997 🔗

North West Essex, eh? I used to live in Braintree. Whereabouts is your cafe??

157382 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Lms23, 10, #944 of 1997 🔗

Nowhere near Braintree. Rather not say as I am dealing with quite a substantial amount of persecution right now.

157433 ▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 9, #945 of 1997 🔗

I am truly sorry for the unwarranted persecution you are receiving Kh,I know what it’s like to have a business that is being treated like that,it’s an awful situation to be in.If I lived nearer I would come and knock a few heads together,if you catch my drift !,that’s how I feel about all this madness now !.

157474 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 14, #946 of 1997 🔗

Thanks very much Paul. Yesterday marked a new low. Will post about it when I have dealt with the fall-out. But, we are in a dark, dark place when treating people as human beings makes you public enemy number one.

157520 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kh1485, 6, #947 of 1997 🔗

And that’s how you know you are right and they are wrong. Easy for me to say, I know, but KBO.

157364 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to kh1485, 1, #948 of 1997 🔗

Yes, I do. A pub in my town.

157383 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Now More Than Ever, #949 of 1997 🔗

Thanks. Do you have any more details?

157484 ▶▶ mjr, replying to kh1485, 2, #950 of 1997 🔗

or given the comment by Sir Patrick Vaccine on here (and his reference to new laws) . any business or employee that has been accused of a crime for not following the rules

157344 AngloWelshDragon, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 70, #951 of 1997 🔗

Well the respect for “key workers” didn’t last long!

My husband is an HGV driver who takes household waste for incineration at power stations – so both keeping rubbish off the streets and keeping the lights on. He’s also been an asthmatic since the age of 7. To add to that a failed sinus operation left him largely unable to breathe through his nose. He doesn’t wear a mask for practical reasons as much as political.

At his regular sandwich shop today he was waiting unmasked at the counter for his order when a range rover pulled up. A young masked woman got out and walked into the shop and immediately started berating my Hubbie for not being masked “I bet you think you’re above the rest of us! Don’t you care about killing people?”. My husband laconically observed “you can’t be that scared of covid if you’re prepared to stand in my toes to yawp at me duck”.

She then demanded to see the manager who said “He’s exempt”. So she then demanded my husband show her his exemption card (I did get him one on a lanyard but he refuses to carry it). She stormed out threatening to call the police.

Coincidentally or not, 5 minutes later a police car pulled up. The cops ordered tea and sat at a table unmasked completely ignoring my husband.

Another example of how civility, mutual respect and minding your own damn business have been trashed by this dreadful government.

157353 ▶▶ mjr, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 40, #952 of 1997 🔗

What’s the difference between a range rover and a hedgehog?
A hedgehog has pricks on the outside

157356 ▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to mjr, 14, #953 of 1997 🔗

Indeed! Being a lockdown sceptic is like fucking a hedgehog: one prick working against thousands! Boom!

157477 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 5, #954 of 1997 🔗

no – thats the mushroom syndrome .. Kept in the dark and fed horseshit

157982 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to mjr, 2, #955 of 1997 🔗

Brilliant: Insecurity takes many forms.

157363 ▶▶ CGL, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 13, #956 of 1997 🔗

The demise of “Be kind” was on 24th July.

158219 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to CGL, 1, #957 of 1997 🔗

“Be Kind” was only used by virtual signallers to demonstrate their moral superiority on antisocial media. They never intended to practice it.

157389 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 9, #958 of 1997 🔗

Did your husband (or anyone else) make a note of the registration plate? This will be useful information for the parade of collaborators.

157440 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Richard O, 7, #959 of 1997 🔗

Yes, let’s start to make a ‘list’…and pull it out at the Truth and Reconciliation Commission that is going to be needed when (if) this ends.

157403 ▶▶ Roadrash, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 16, #960 of 1997 🔗

You can’t reason with fools. I have no patience with people who blindly follow their new religion. It’s wasted breath. Also the idea of key workers is a bit of a misnomer. Some jobs are more important than others but for anyone who earns a crust their job is key for them and their families. Except politicians – they can do one.

157409 ▶▶ Karenandincredulous, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 18, #961 of 1997 🔗

Personally I won’t ever forgive or forget politicians for this smashing of civilisation. I’m lucky that where we live is not too bad and aware that this kind of nasty self declared policing will eventually get here too.

157420 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Karenandincredulous, 13, #962 of 1997 🔗

I won’t ever forgive or forget all those who have supported them either. We all need to make sure that everyone we encounter like this that we can identify is recorded. They cannot and must not go unpunished.

157922 ▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Richard O, 4, #963 of 1997 🔗

Yes! We MUST record all those who either took part in smashing society or who enthusiastically supported their disgusting behaviour. They MUST NOT be allowed to slide away when the edifice comes crashing down, bleating “It wasn’t me, I didn’t know”.

All quislings must face the music afterwards; we have all had to endure the inquisitions at the pub entrances, the bleatings online, the nasty looks and snide remarks of passers-by. Soon it will be our turn, and “zen vee vill examine our list.”

157979 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to AngloWelshDragon, 3, #964 of 1997 🔗

Well said, and of course if you drive a range rover, your life is far more important than your husband doing his important job and working to feed his family; ” Honestly, some of these lower class people!”

158122 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #965 of 1997 🔗

Was there much of an age difference twixt the Range Rover woman and your husband? – you describe her as being young.

The slight run in I had the other day was with someone younger than me – alas 90% of the population is now probably younger than me! And I thought afterwards how odd it was – the virus is more of a threat to my existence than it is to the chap berating me.

Berating the less vulnerable for not considering the vulnerability of the more vulnerable has some logic. But berating the more vulnerable for not being more considerate of the less vulnerable has much less logic. It is like asking the vulnerable to do unto others what they clearly don’t want done unto themselves.

158225 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 1, #966 of 1997 🔗

Well done to your husband for standing up for himself and for the manager for backing him up. The arrogance of that woman was breathtaking, the last few years and especially this crisis has really thrust daylight into human nature and revealing it to be like the picture of Dorian Gray.

This incident and my two run ins makes me wonder, it seems to be the women doing the shaming and “policing” regarding muzzles. Why? If anything this confirms to me that all the blathering about sisterhood, female solidarity and women supporting other women are all lies. And I say this as a woman.

157362 Sir Patrick Vaccine, 6, #967 of 1997 🔗

Tory MP Mark Harper Calls Out Boris Johnson Secretly Passing New Criminal Business Laws At Midnight for businesses

Not following the exact procedures is now a criminal offence for businesses

truly frightening

youtube /watch?v=et9iPgf3930

157367 muzzle, replying to muzzle, 12, #968 of 1997 🔗

Disappointing to see the comments from Boris about people expect to retrain ASAP for new jobs. He’s basically saying things will never be the same again and I still don’t accept that. What about clubs and theatres? Are they seriously saying they will no longer exist?

157371 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to muzzle, 11, #969 of 1997 🔗

What new jobs are those then? We all going to retrain as Covid Wombles?

157374 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to zacaway, 4, #970 of 1997 🔗

Quite – all this will achieve is to keep a few off the unemployment figures, doubtless at great expense and with little achieved.

157605 ▶▶▶ Hoppity, replying to zacaway, 1, #971 of 1997 🔗

Covid Wombles – very funny!

157376 ▶▶ silverbirch, replying to muzzle, 6, #972 of 1997 🔗

Just heard from my sister in Montreal. They are in lockdown for 28 days starting October 1st. No bars, restaurants etc. What are the odds we will be the same?

157402 ▶▶ Karenandincredulous, replying to muzzle, 5, #973 of 1997 🔗

Probably safe to assume that everything Boris/Doris says or ever will say will be disappointing, then you won’t be disappointed.

157514 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to muzzle, 4, #974 of 1997 🔗

Clubs & theatres = prime real estate. This is a good way to ensure that the super rich can buy up these assets that have real value when the finally allow the fiat currency to topple.

157380 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 14, #975 of 1997 🔗

Today I observed a woman, who obviously believed the face mask propaganda – she exhorted the person she was with to wear his mask properly. Whilst having a conversation, she pulled down her mask every time she wished to speak and pulled it back up to listen. Touching the mask, touching her face, over and over.

157398 ▶▶ Karenandincredulous, replying to Steve Hayes, 4, #976 of 1997 🔗

True Darwinism

157724 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Karenandincredulous, 1, #977 of 1997 🔗

True bedwetting idiocy.

157475 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #978 of 1997 🔗

same as making sure you are wearing your seatbelt and sounding your horn as you drive at speed down the pavement.

157386 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 8, #979 of 1997 🔗

Hope Parliament can get rid of Johnson asap, he’s been corrupted by Blair and Cummings, their useful idiot so it seems, and it makes you wonder what they’ve got on him.

157526 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #980 of 1997 🔗

Corrupted by Gates as well..
Might be worth looking for provable possible previous links between Cummings and Gates..

157387 kf99, replying to kf99, 12, #981 of 1997 🔗

London faces bleak future without £5bn cash boost, says Sadiq Khan

“I remember what it was like 20 years ago… unreliable services, old-fashioned ticketing system and lack of coordination. We must not return to the bad old days.”

Just like what the rest of the country puts up with?

157390 ▶▶ Liam, replying to kf99, 19, #982 of 1997 🔗

London faces bleak future without £5bn cash boost utter ruin unless all this nonsense ends, right now.

That’s better.

157404 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to kf99, 14, #983 of 1997 🔗

“London faces bleak future as long as I am the Mayor. Now cover your disgusting faces with a gimp nappy and take the knee you worthless slaves.”

157406 ▶▶ Adamb, replying to kf99, 13, #984 of 1997 🔗

How about he stops begging the government to shut the damn city down??

157452 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Adamb, 7, #985 of 1997 🔗

“London needs £5b cash boost”
“We must shut down the economy.”

I wonder if these two positions might be related.

Do politicians now believe that work and the economy are just things people do for a laugh?

157426 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to kf99, 8, #986 of 1997 🔗

The man is Mayor of a region that generates 30% of all UK tax. He could energise the city but what does he do?

Yap and complain

157439 ▶▶ Jules, replying to kf99, 5, #987 of 1997 🔗

Khan has utterly destroyed London. Shocking to see what a shit hole my home of more than 30 years has become. Victoria is like a big open sewer.

157462 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Jules, 1, #988 of 1997 🔗

A suitable successor to Mr Toad, indeed.

157511 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to kf99, 1, #989 of 1997 🔗

Oh dear, what a pity, who gives a fuck?

Other than cramming in more people into less space what’s the difference between London and every other place in the UK run by incompetent enemies of the people I mean councils (at local market today, not one stall holder has a good word to say about our local council),

Join the rest of the country then numbnuts.

158230 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kf99, #990 of 1997 🔗

Doesn’t he realise that he’s responsible for London’s current dire situation.

And as for the bad old days, Khan is ensuring that we will return to those days. Possibly further into the Stone Age.

157393 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 8, #991 of 1997 🔗

Its nothing to do with a low mortality virus is it?

157395 ▶▶ Liam, replying to Dan Clarke, 16, #992 of 1997 🔗

No. I no longer believe in incompetence, panic, or a mass nervous breakdown. This is deliberate.

157399 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Liam, 5, #993 of 1997 🔗

Me neither, I keep getting a vision of a photo a while ago of Johnson’s dad sitting with one of the top Chinese ministers, laughing, makes you wonder

157522 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Dan Clarke, #994 of 1997 🔗

Never saw that – please post link or pic if possible…

157394 AnotherSceptic, replying to AnotherSceptic, 10, #995 of 1997 🔗


I absolutely hate Yahoo. They & the government mouthpiece the BBC have been the worst for the fear mongering throughout this whole shameful shit.

Now, it’s “conspiracy theories”

Utter cunts.

157453 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to AnotherSceptic, 3, #996 of 1997 🔗

“The worry, ultimately, is that, as oddball as this stuff is, it appears to be gaining traction with a wider audience, spilling over into mainstream thought and contaminating both reasonable debate about coronavirus and trust in evidence-based science”

Not at all like you can change sex if you were born in the wrong body and will be socially cancelled (J.K.Rowling) or even get a visit from the police to “check your thinking” if you disagree, which is also completely unsupported by evidence-based science?
And funny how the actual CEBM, evidence based medicine, is sidelined and ignored by the government, and practicing doctors who try to tell the public a different viewpoint (eg use of hydroxychloroquine) are silenced by Big Tech. That’s just fine, and not at all part of a conspiracy to silence dissent at all. Ooh, no.

157401 NonCompliant, replying to NonCompliant, 8, #997 of 1997 🔗

So my son has been at college for 3 weeks, he’s doing about 5 hours tuition a week at best (keeping a record for me) and now they’ve thrown a stupid BLM questionaire at his class!

Anyone know what the legal footing is for pupils who refuse to do these ridiculous indoctrination courses? I’ve told him to bite his lip for now and take screenshots for me as I didn’t want him kicked off although he’s not exactly learning anything much anyway.

I’m going to email the Principle to complain and reiterate BLM’s sick “Mission Statement” to them but i’d like to know what kind of legal footing we’d be stood on if they tried to exclude my son from college for refusing any more woke gobbledegook.

Any ideas?

157425 ▶▶ Kev, replying to NonCompliant, #998 of 1997 🔗

First question, can the questionnaire be completed anonymously?

157429 ▶▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Kev, 2, #999 of 1997 🔗

He had to provide some details yes. He only gave his first name but there’s 3 with the same name on the course so it wouldn’t take the Stasi very long regardless.

157457 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to NonCompliant, #1000 of 1997 🔗

For the legal footing, I suggest you contact the Free Speech Union, having joined first.

157468 ▶▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Lms23, #1001 of 1997 🔗

Good idea. Think i’m a member already. I’ve certainly made a few donations recently.

157509 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to NonCompliant, #1002 of 1997 🔗

I would be fascinated to see the questions if you think you’re able to share.

157708 ▶▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Tee Ell, 1, #1003 of 1997 🔗

I will do yeah. I’ll get them off my son’s PC later and post them in a new thread on here 🙂

157408 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 8, #1004 of 1997 🔗

Tory MP Mark Harper Calls Out Boris Johnson Secretly Passing New Criminal Business Laws At Midnight for businesses

Not following the exact procedures is now a criminal offence for businesses


Truly frightening

157421 ▶▶ maggie may, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 7, #1005 of 1997 🔗

Well done Mr Harper, he is my MP and it’s good to see him standing up for us. I’ve emailed him today.

157464 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #1006 of 1997 🔗

We’re all criminals now.

157467 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #1007 of 1997 🔗

where can we see this documented – what constitutes a criminal offence? I am going to my barbers tomorrow .. He probably isnt aware of this

157410 BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 14, #1008 of 1997 🔗

Some journalists are seriously out of touch. LBCs Sheila Fogarty just hung up a caller with the cry that flu does not kill 45,000 people.

She is repeating the line that 350 NHS workers died of CV-19. No context. Just presented to the caller that to question lockdown was essentially dismissing their lives as worthless.

Total emotional blackmail

157455 ▶▶ FlynnQuill, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 5, #1009 of 1997 🔗

She’s correct, flu killed over 50,000 people in the winter of 2017/18 :).

157471 ▶▶▶ 2 pence, replying to FlynnQuill, 4, #1010 of 1997 🔗

Daily Mail, Feb. `18

Killer flu outbreak is to blame for a 42% spike in deaths in January after 64,000 people died – the highest number since records began

  • Government data shows 64,157 people died in January – the highest since 2006
  • It is only the second time the toll has breached the 60,000 mark, figures reveal
  • ‘Circulating influenza’ was blamed, released by the Office for National Statistics


157507 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to FlynnQuill, #1011 of 1997 🔗

You may have read me wrong. Fogarty made the claim when in fact flu has killed many more in tbe past

157528 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #1012 of 1997 🔗

I think FlynnQuill is sarcastically pointing out that Sheila is wrong (obviously attempting to imply that flu is not so deadly) by being correct (flu did kill more than 45000 a few years ago).

157772 ▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Cicatriz, #1013 of 1997 🔗

Ha. Got it

157460 ▶▶ RickH, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #1014 of 1997 🔗

Sadly, this is a reflection of the poor general standard of journalism. It is excruciatingly bad.

157499 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #1015 of 1997 🔗

Remember Sheila Fogarty is a long term BBC presenter.

157549 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Dave #KBF, #1016 of 1997 🔗

Yes . they all follow the journalistic template of the original BBC presenter, Anne Droid

What is the difference between a supermarket trolley and a BBC presenter?
A supermarket trolley has a mind of its own

157709 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #1017 of 1997 🔗

Another excellent reason for not ever tuning in to listen to that horrible woman.

157417 ▶▶ Liam, replying to Strange Days, 4, #1019 of 1997 🔗

“Himmler calls for better travelling conditions for deportees.”

157456 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Strange Days, 1, #1021 of 1997 🔗

The only thing I’d change is “government need to do LESS TO young people.” And the rest of us.

157518 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Strange Days, 2, #1022 of 1997 🔗

What? She is part of the CAUSE of the problem…

157573 ▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Carrie, #1023 of 1997 🔗

Exactly, an utter lack of self awareness.

157711 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Strange Days, #1024 of 1997 🔗

Isn’t Susan Michie one of the reasons for all this?

157412 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 8, #1025 of 1997 🔗

A general strike against further lockdowns?

157459 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #1026 of 1997 🔗

To have a general strike, you have to have general support.

157483 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to RickH, 1, #1027 of 1997 🔗

You also need something to disrupt by striking….oh wait, everything is shut down anyway.

157508 ▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1028 of 1997 🔗

Yep, nose/spite/face.

157545 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to RickH, #1029 of 1997 🔗

and a job

157627 ▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to RickH, #1030 of 1997 🔗

And employment!

157414 Jules, 14, #1031 of 1997 🔗

So nut job Nazi, Boris, doesn’t know what the restrictions are that his gauleiter in the North East are set to impose on the hapless and the hopeless this evening. No surprise there. Never mind. I am sure Reichsmarschall Hancock has mastered the detail..oh, wait…

157419 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 28, #1032 of 1997 🔗

Sent a message of support to Desmond Swayne MP just now.

Within minutes a short and succinct “Thank You” came back.Not an autoreply either but a real e-mail message.

Not much but proves he read it.

More than my own bloody MP has.

157447 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #1033 of 1997 🔗

I bet he’s had thousands of emails. Good of him to send even a short reply.

157448 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #1034 of 1997 🔗

back benchers like him are good constituency MPs. Not on the greasy pole, nothing to prove , not tied up with government or opposition business .

157449 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #1035 of 1997 🔗

I got a “many thanks” – like you, more than my own MP. And certainly more action than my own.

157454 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #1036 of 1997 🔗

Just did the same. Made sure to point out I am not exactly his target demographic in normal times but that he is on the right side of history

157516 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1037 of 1997 🔗

Desmond Swayne has probably been overwhelmed with emails since his speech yesterday!

157521 ▶▶ kenadams, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #1038 of 1997 🔗

I emailed him half an hour after reading your message, giving him what I hope are useful bits of information and links to helpful sources etc, and he also replied to me in person ‘Thanks D’. I’m impressed.

157723 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Awkward Git, #1039 of 1997 🔗

I’ve sent a couple of emails to my MP, and not even had an automated acknowledgement.

157743 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Awkward Git, #1040 of 1997 🔗

I got one too. Within minutes. nothing like my own MP

157427 Mibi, replying to Mibi, 15, #1041 of 1997 🔗

This advent we should all gather in large groups and sing Christmas carols, loud and enthusiastically.

157446 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Mibi, 9, #1042 of 1997 🔗

I hate Christmas but I’d join in.

157458 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to ConstantBees, #1043 of 1997 🔗

Christmas time here, by golly
Disapproval would be folly.


157443 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1044 of 1997 🔗

Has this been posted?
Julia HB eviscerating Helen Whatley, who talks a load of bollox.


157479 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #1045 of 1997 🔗

She is going up in my estimation of her as a journalist.

157527 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1046 of 1997 🔗

Yes. She has clearly examined the evidence and comes very well prepared.

157488 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #1047 of 1997 🔗

Fucking hell, same old bollocks, test, test, test, numbers are up, long covid yawn.

All these wankers have been given a script or they’re too stupid to think for themselves.

They must have family and surely must think how dangerous is it really? Are my children at risk?

This is the conspiracy, they are lying or too scared to say anything else which goes to show they shouldn’t be in the job.

157444 theanalyst, 9, #1048 of 1997 🔗

Just a quick snippet. We’ve heard lots about how there are heaps of money involved with the new Covid19 industry (which seems to be an unstoppable force at the moment), so now that the normal company financial updates are starting to come out, we can start to see this actually happening.

So lets pick Novacyt (also use brand ‘Primerdesign) are (or were) a small clinical diagnostics company who are delighted with rapidly winning huge contracts to be providing many of the PCR tests for Covid19. They have had a bumper 6 months to 30 June 2020.

Here is the link to their half year results 30 June 2020.


You can see that the CEO Graham Mullis is well chuffed.

“Graham Mullis, Group CEO of Novacyt, commented: The first half of 2020 has been transformational for Novacyt, delivering sales growth of more than 900%. The significantly strengthened cashflow has enabled us to also settle all outstanding debt. The Company’s market leading position in COVID-19 PCR testing has resulted in an increased customer base and a reputation for innovation and   high performance of our products ,   enabling us to forge a number of strategic partnerships.

Yes. Transformational indeed! – The line that makes Graham very happy is at the bottom of one of the tables

Profit / (Loss) after tax attributable to the owners profit of 40,195,000 Euros (2020) , compared to loss of (1,994,000) Euros (2019)

Nice (or not, depending on your point of view) to see some people are enjoying this …… so a loss making company now turning over a huge profit supported by very enthusiastic governments and obviously the WHO (remember ‘Test, Test, Test??)

157461 Dorian_Hawkmoon, replying to Dorian_Hawkmoon, 6, #1049 of 1997 🔗

Has the Government harvested people’s mobile phone numbers from GPs in violation of GDPR? Looks that way. Did someone take it or did my GP release it. I haven’t given my permission. It is only for the GP practice to use. I note that Simon Stevens NHS CE said the app was a Govt app not an NHS app so my email has been shared outside the NHS has it? Even worse. Angry. Will complain to my GP FWIW.

157480 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Dorian_Hawkmoon, 7, #1050 of 1997 🔗

Lockdown statues didn’t apply to government officials, what makes you think GDPR will?

There is no rule of law.

157486 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Cicatriz, 14, #1051 of 1997 🔗

Damn right. The rule of law ended in the UK on 23rd March, We all need to stop kidding ourselves that it still exists.

157541 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Dorian_Hawkmoon, 4, #1052 of 1997 🔗

I queried with my GP as i received an email from T&T on Saturday
They are equally concerned .. Their reply to me was

,”Could you possibly forward the email you received from NHS Track & Trace to us ?Though the email is out of our control and we are not responsible for giving out the information we are quite interested in the actual mechanics of these emails – is it a hack, how are they obtaining the information ? – if it is indeed NHS England. We would like to bring it up at a CCG meeting tomorrow to see if we can shed any light on it for you”

It does seem that NHS may have a central database – i have probably given my email in relation to previous treatments but they may also be augmenting with details from GPs

157568 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to mjr, 2, #1053 of 1997 🔗

I know how this has been done, and it is not from your GP at all.
In fact I know that it can’t have originated from my GP surgery because that is done through text messaging not e-mail. My GP surgery hasn’t got my e-mail address.
Do you order repeat prescriptions, make appointments etc electronically?

My GP used one system until earlier this year when they switched to the NHS app, which gives you access to your NHS services (repeat prescriptions, appointments and other information.
When you register for this you have to put in your e-mail address, in fact that is your login name.

157980 ▶▶▶▶ Polemon2, replying to p02099003, #1054 of 1997 🔗

I suspected that possibility. I have written to EMISHealth directly asking them if they gave out my eMail adress. I await a reply.

157466 Now More Than Ever, replying to Now More Than Ever, 2, #1055 of 1997 🔗

Depressing reply from my (Tory) MP, who I wrote to again about extending the emergency powers.

“Thank you for your email and giving me your views.

Most people agree with the latest measures brought forward by the Government with a large number wanting them to go further – https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/09/23/brits-support-new-lockdown-rules-many-think-they-d This matches the views I get from my constituents.

Discussions are still ongoing on what will be brought forward with the Coronavirus Act renewal tomorrow in terms of further Parliamentary scrutiny. I will consider any amendments chosen by the Speaker and the extension of the Act on merit, after listening to both constituents and the debate.”

157534 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Now More Than Ever, 5, #1056 of 1997 🔗

Perhaps you could ask him how many jobs he’s happy to see destroyed before he starts thinking about what he’s doing.

157469 nocheesegromit, replying to nocheesegromit, 3, #1057 of 1997 🔗

What will be the subject of tomorrow’s press conference? Will they admit that cases are not doubling every 7 days as demonstrated by yesterday’s figures vs those from the Monday before?

157485 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to nocheesegromit, 7, #1058 of 1997 🔗

Cases have doubled, because they haven’t. Anyone who claims otherwise is a Covid denier. More lockdowns now!

157489 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Richard O, 3, #1059 of 1997 🔗

Or it’ll be “the latest interventions have worked, but we can’t be complacent”

157494 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to DRW, 4, #1060 of 1997 🔗

Indeed, masks work because science, so let’s mandate them everywhere to keep the downward trend going. But the numbers are still doubling really, it’s just that the line is invisible. If we don’t wear masks everywhere, 20 million people are going to die tomorrow.

157887 ▶▶▶▶▶ helen, replying to Richard O, #1061 of 1997 🔗

Yes, all quite true!
When this all began I asked my friend if she had any spare beds so I could move in with the sane people.

She’s a psychiatric nurse

157492 ▶▶ nickbowes, replying to nocheesegromit, 2, #1062 of 1997 🔗

Every one has to download the app or risk a £1,000 fine.

157497 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to nickbowes, 3, #1063 of 1997 🔗

I’d say that’s being let off lightly. Let’s make it punishable by a custodial sentence of no less than 5 years.

157512 ▶▶▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to Richard O, 1, #1064 of 1997 🔗

No they do a prison sentence only fixed penalty fines because they know it would never stand up in court

157472 Mark, 19, #1065 of 1997 🔗

Posted below by Sir Patrick Vaccine, but very important and worth reposting. Tories sneak in laws criminalising resistance to coronapanic laws, and powers for petty local authority bullies, pcso’s and other jumped up little brownshirt wannabees to use force to enforce coronapanic nonsense. What could possibly go wrong? This is what will result in scenes such as have been seen in Victoria, on our streets.

There should be outrage, not least about the way this has been brought in.

Tory MP Mark Harper Calls Out Boris Johnson Secretly Passing New Criminal Business Laws At Midnight

4:20 “There are also measures in here which give the power of using reasonable force to enforce self-isolation not just to police officers and pcsos but also to any individual appointed by the Secretary of State, and also employees of local authorities, supposedly these “covid marshalls”.

5:44 “I would urge ministers to make those steps to make sure laws are better scrutinised”

Well Mr Harper, that’s actually your responsibility, not the government’s. You can and should be voting down the CV Act renewal in order to make that happen. Anything else is negligence on your part.

157487 nickbowes, replying to nickbowes, 8, #1066 of 1997 🔗

The Mad Monk feat Laurel and Hardy tomorrow eve prime time bbc viewing. Every time these three clowns get together its at least another 500,000 jobs lost and dreams destroyed.Go, just go.

157505 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to nickbowes, 1, #1067 of 1997 🔗

It will be made a criminal offence to use the NHS for any treatments other than Covid.

157523 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Richard O, #1068 of 1997 🔗

A Dr Jake Suett is doing the media circuit talking about being a sufferer of “long covid”.

I will put a link to a clip up later, but seems he is more PR for covid than doctor.

157579 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Richard O, 2, #1069 of 1997 🔗

we need a different service. NHS for normal stuff and some ‘plague hospitals’ for infectious diseases. different buildings and budgets. lets not murder another 20k from missed cancer diagnoses. Prof Tom Jefferson was suggesting something similar in the summer.

157493 Cheezilla, 6, #1070 of 1997 🔗

Mark Harper, good points made yesterday:

…. The regulations, which came into force at midnight last night and which were only published, or made, at five o’clock yesterday, contain some very serious powers that were not in the statements made to Parliament last week. ….. There are duties that are put on employers that create criminal offences both for the company and for individual managers in that company. I do not know how many businesses in this country are aware of the fact that these duties have now just landed on them—I would hazard very few.
…. Those are all questions that no one in this House has been able to ask a Minister, because the regulations came into force last night. They have to be debated within 28 days, but that could be a month away and it could happen after they have been amended several times, as we have seen with other regulations. I do not think that is the right way to make the criminal law and introduce important sanctions in a democracy.
The changes were announced last week. Like my hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe, I do not buy the idea that there was no time between last week and this week when they could have been debated. When the Government want to, they can change the business of the House rapidly. They can also arrange for the House to sit rapidly. I urge Ministers to take those steps to make sure that these laws are better scrutinised.


157496 DRW, replying to DRW, 11, #1071 of 1997 🔗

Just thinking of the bingo card for tomorrow’s Clown Show:
“R rate”
“Six weeks behind France”
“Until there’s a vaccine”

157503 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to DRW, 6, #1072 of 1997 🔗


157557 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Richard O, 5, #1073 of 1997 🔗


MW and AG

157513 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to DRW, 5, #1074 of 1997 🔗

Good thinking about “Six weeks behind France” they have got to have something about 6 in there.

6 feet
6 weeks
6 in a group
6 weeks behind France

Fits nicely

157519 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Dave #KBF, #1075 of 1997 🔗

Well it can’t be Spain anymore after their likely peak and then data revision.

157554 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Dave #KBF, 4, #1076 of 1997 🔗

and soon we will all be six feet under

157552 ▶▶ Tiberius, replying to DRW, #1077 of 1997 🔗

I suspect they’ll add up all the numbers on the bingo card, and multiply them to the power of 6 (seems to be their fixation) to get the new projected infection rate. House! And not only the house but pubs, bars, restaurants, workplaces, vehicles, bee hives… shut them all!

157560 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Tiberius, 1, #1078 of 1997 🔗

Of course, Bees spread Covid! The last wave coincided with an exponential increase in bee mobility!

157588 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to DRW, 2, #1079 of 1997 🔗

“As the nights draw in and temperatures drop, we must be prepared for the looming twin deadly threats of both Seasonal Influenza and Coronavirus. And the first line of our defence against Coronavirus is track and trace. It is every citizen’s individual responsibility to download the app. Today!
Our second defence is the flu vaccine. NOW is the time to act. Contact your health provider to ensure that you are protected by the flu vaccine as soon as possible.”

..plus assorted general blandishments about; ‘prevent NHS overload’, ‘in this together’, ‘loved ones’, ‘saving Christmas’ etc etc.

And maybe a couple of random military metaphors for good measure.

157593 ▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to Kevin 2, 2, #1080 of 1997 🔗

“Comply or die”

158423 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to DRW, #1081 of 1997 🔗


157501 BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 7, #1082 of 1997 🔗

Direct question: “Anyone presenting to hospital with a broken leg or heartbattack who is subsequently tested positive for Covid and are asymptomatic, are they counted as a Covid hospitalization?”

Direct answer : “Yes, they are”

The Irish Covid Committee. The chair MacNamara had been a vocal critic of the lockdown measures but has only made for good sound bites so far. He’s a lone wolf among politicians in Ireland


157550 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #1083 of 1997 🔗

Quite an admission. And the only way to get the death “with COVID” denotified is via an inquest which I assume is pretty rare. So how many of the deaths are we talking about?
MacNamara is doing well but needs more support.

157572 ▶▶ Draper233, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #1084 of 1997 🔗

Excellent link BeBop, this could be dynamite if the public get access.

Just to avoid the lame counter-argument of “it must only apply to Ireland”, do we have any further supporting evidence on record for the UK?

157758 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Draper233, #1085 of 1997 🔗

Have they any evidence it doesn’t?

157574 ▶▶ mjr, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #1086 of 1997 🔗

which is the same as the UK which is why the daily hospitalisation figures are meaningless

157502 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #1087 of 1997 🔗

I emailed my Tory(not that it makes any difference as 99 % of them are in denial) MP on Sunday putting the Sceptic case and asking him to vote against extending the CV lockdown laws and as of now have heard “Zilch,F××K All,Didley squat,etc”
The right honourable member for Ludlow; INDEED.

157506 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #1088 of 1997 🔗

Ditto from their town council for a few weeks now.

Total silence.

157510 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1089 of 1997 🔗

I suppose his majority of 23,000 plus has made him unable to get one of his minions to reply to my reasonable polite questions.

157544 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #1090 of 1997 🔗

Just emailed our useless moron (for the nth time) at the 11th hour asking him to vote with Brady etc. Probably a waste of time but at least someone might read it. MW

157555 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #1091 of 1997 🔗

Same, not expecting anything from the local stooge but I can say I tried.

157840 ▶▶ EllGee, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1092 of 1997 🔗

Join the majority of us. It seems many of our duly elected MPs can’t be bothered to reply to the people who elected them.

157524 Dan Clarke, 2, #1093 of 1997 🔗

There they are in Parliament talking about business and Brexit, business who thought Brexit would be their undoing, and who are now letting Johnson and his Covid Team wreck their business with impunity

157525 Richard O, replying to Richard O, 18, #1094 of 1997 🔗

Are the increasingly draconian punishments for any Covid infractions being announced daily a sign of desperation perhaps? This government has only one tool in its kit: FEAR. Lose this, and they lose everything, and they know it.

157581 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Richard O, 5, #1095 of 1997 🔗

I think that you have a point there., Richard. There seems to be a definite negative correlation between the soundness of the narrative and the measures imposed.

So – the Bastards come up with stringent measures because the virus has gone away as a threat (see any mapping of the data). So a new narrative is constructed on purely fictional indicators (see the ‘worst case’ graph above).

157585 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Richard O, 1, #1096 of 1997 🔗

So true…

157529 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #1097 of 1997 🔗

Found this one on the government petitions website, just a bout to sign it:


Freeze funding to the World Health Organization amid the coronavirus crisis

157536 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1098 of 1997 🔗


157539 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Carrie, #1099 of 1997 🔗

#metoo! MW

157542 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Awkward Git, #1100 of 1997 🔗

Me too!

157546 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Awkward Git, #1101 of 1997 🔗

Signed. Thanks.

157576 ▶▶ wayno, replying to Awkward Git, #1102 of 1997 🔗

me too

157584 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Awkward Git, #1103 of 1997 🔗

signed… v important to stop the WHO !

157603 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Awkward Git, #1104 of 1997 🔗


157530 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 5, #1105 of 1997 🔗

URGENT: Has anyone seen this?

After David Nabarro (WHO) on R4 this morning I decided to do more digging.

He is LITERALLY setting up the narrative… all in plain view!


Whose puppet is he? Is he a ringleader? He needs to be STOPPED!

157537 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Country Mumkin, 11, #1106 of 1997 🔗

Great find.

As countries all around the world enter the most restrictive peacetime measures they may have experienced, people everywhere will experience a range of moods and emotions that will impact on their lives. The overall message for now is: ‘Be Fast, No Blame, No Regrets’.

Fuck right off. Dressing up crimes against humanity on a colourful and friendly website. Pure evil. And this is not peacetime. It is a war on humanity itself.

157553 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Richard O, 3, #1107 of 1997 🔗

Grim indeed. Note the ‘Rule of 3’ propaganda format. Pure SPI-B. MW

157559 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 10, #1108 of 1997 🔗

I have a strange feeling that someone like this might not know they are evil, and think that they really are doing their very best for humanity. None of the top Nazis thought they were evil. Himmler in particular genuinely thought of himself as a decent, upstanding, moral person.

157590 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Richard O, #1109 of 1997 🔗

Good point. Have you read ‘They thought they Free’ by Milton Mayer. He documents exactly what you are saying. MW

157630 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #1110 of 1997 🔗

The germans had come through a crushing depression and turned to Hitler for strength.
How are they going to persuade us that covid restrictions are somehow “better” and “good”?

157632 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Kate, 1, #1111 of 1997 🔗

They have obviously impoverished and harmed the population, and no-one has yet seen any dead bodies to justify this emergency.

157929 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Kate, #1112 of 1997 🔗

I think most people believe that they are. MW

157540 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Country Mumkin, 3, #1113 of 1997 🔗

Don’t think he’s a puppet. He is a psycopath.

157567 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, #1114 of 1997 🔗

He has some sot of live briefing twice a week too. I think it would be worth tuning in to see what he is saying. https://www.4sd.info/covid-19-open-online-briefings/

157578 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, #1115 of 1997 🔗

And this “one health” ideology seems a bit of a driver… https://www.4sd.info/spotlights/spotlight-on-one-health-by-jimmy-smith/

157839 ▶▶ HaylingDave, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #1116 of 1997 🔗

What a fucking nob.

I stopped after reading this within the first 20 seconds:

…with three interlinked emphases:

a) People are encouraged to adopt all precautions all the time. As Tedros of WHO says: ‘Do it All’: physical distancing, proper face-masking, hand/cough/surface hygiene, self-isolating when ill and shielding those most at risk. There should be no exceptions anywhere. This is best achieved through engaging people and trusting them rather than coercion if at all possible.

157845 ▶▶ helen, replying to Country Mumkin, #1117 of 1997 🔗

One of Bill Gates’s is my guess ..he seems to own most people these days, Ferguson, Drosten to name 2

157531 H K, replying to H K, 13, #1118 of 1997 🔗

This site is fabulous but i do get frustrated at the dismissive attitude towards the ‘conspiracy theorists’ & ‘conspiracy theories’.
Now I agree there is cock-up, gross incompetence, self interest and group-think at play but there are also individuals/organisations who are using the hysteria of Covid19 to push their agenda.
One doesn’t have to subscribe to the fringe conspiracy theories, but there is sound evidence to some of them, so we should not dismiss them!
Yes Bill Gates is one such man, and there is the founder of the WEF who is pushing the ‘Great Reset’. There’s enough material from their own mouths and documents to support this case.

157535 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to H K, 8, #1119 of 1997 🔗

Plus BG’s proven links to Boris – for goodness’ sake, Boris even names him in speeches and replies to BG’s tweets!

157570 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to H K, 6, #1120 of 1997 🔗

I agree.You can stick to those things that are in the public domain.
WEF have even called their conference set for Jan 21 the great reset.
It is beyond doubt that the government see a vaccine as the way out.Millions of doses ordered and changing of the law to allow unlicensed vaccines to be used.
Johnson has also said he wants us to have a digital identity to partake in normal life.
I could go on.

157571 ▶▶ RickH, replying to H K, 4, #1121 of 1997 🔗

Of course – stupidity and intentionality are not mutually exclusive, and there are clearly layers of explanation, all of which may have some traction at different levels.

What I do believe is that, because explanations of motivations are vulnerable to disagreement and also plain barking delusion, it is best to stick to the knitting – i.e. refuting the factual basis of the establishment narrative, with perhaps some mention of where follow the money’ takes you, which is pretty well beyond refutation.

157647 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to H K, 4, #1122 of 1997 🔗

It does if they are prolonging the agony to implement their plans.
Whether it was all planned from the start,an accident in a lab,a bio weapon used by China/USA or even a virus transmuted from bats it doesn’t matter and nobody on here knows the truth.
The one fact we are all sure of on here that is that this virus doesn’t justify the reaction.

157823 ▶▶ stewart, replying to H K, #1123 of 1997 🔗

The line between a conspiracy and bad actors pursuing their personal interests and agendas is a fine one.

There are plenty of things set out in plain sight for anyone who wants to dig and look to legitimise most of the accusations being made against Bill Gates, pharmaceuticals and governments.

But should it matter how all these draconian measures come about? Who cares if they are planned or not planned. They are bad in and of themselves and made no worse by virtue of being planned.

I just think that pushing the notion that it’s all planned doesn’t help because it puts people off and it’s all bad enough even if it wasn’t all planned.

157533 Sam Vimes, 9, #1124 of 1997 🔗

We’ve already seen over reach from pubs and supermarkets where they haven’t even looked at the guidance, never mind misunderstood it. Now there are penalties, making up their own rules is going to go apeshit. Or should I say batshit.

157598 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Ewan Duffy, 2, #1126 of 1997 🔗

Wow! Surprised to see this in The Guardian, but a positive sign. Couple of basic editing mistakes that need fixing but this is short and sweet and to the point. Also frames it in terms of issues such as “the rights of people of colour” that should hopefully go down well with their audience.

157611 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Tee Ell, 2, #1127 of 1997 🔗

Its not called teh Gruaniad for nohting. SIC

157652 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Tee Ell, 1, #1128 of 1997 🔗

It wouldn’t be the Guardian if it didn’t have editing mistakes 😉

158083 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Ewan Duffy, #1129 of 1997 🔗

But no comments allowed so we don’t know what Guardian readers made of the article. If it was typical of my experience as a commenter there, the words “selfish” and “idiot” would be used about the author, regardless of their relevance.

157543 John P, replying to John P, 2, #1130 of 1997 🔗

Andrew Robathan, former Tory MP, from the Lords today:

“Unfortunately, many in the media seize upon unsubstantiated scare stories, and I particularly mention the BBC, which spreads fear and despair and treats the opinions of the discredited Professor Ferguson as gospel. These fears are amplified by some politicians: Sadiq Khan, Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford. However, my unscientific view remains that neither they nor anybody else really knows. Government policy has reflected that, as advice has changed weekly, if not daily. It is not that many weeks since we were told that wearing a face mask was unnecessary and possibly even increased the viral load if one was already infected. Therefore, please let us not suspend our critical faculties; let us look at the evidence.

First, although infection rates are important, we have been exhorted throughout this crisis that this is about saving lives, so it is deaths and very serious illness or hospital admissions that should be our focus. The data is certainly not perfect, but we do know—from Cancer Research UK, for instance—that 450 people die from cancer every day.”

Great stuff … but it’s not about a virus, obvs!

I currently have two theories about what goes on in the heads of the conspiracy loons.

Either they really are really dim enough to believe that the government knows exactly what it’s doing.

Or (and I say this knowing that it is a provocative idea) that some (not all) of them are in fact members of the 77th Brigade.

Why would the 77th Brigade want to promote conspiracy theories here?

Easy. To discredit the site, so that journalists can write Toby off as one of them and so that ordinarly members of the public will avoid the forum.

Just an idea. I have no proof and certainly do not accuse individuals, but I think it’s plausible.

157558 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to John P, 7, #1131 of 1997 🔗

As a conspiracy loon myself i would ask you to explain the actions of the current government.If they are continuing to ramp up fear and prolong the current crisis just to cover up the initial over reaction;is this not a conspiracy theory in itself

157586 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 13, #1132 of 1997 🔗

As someone unable to believe that this is just about panic and incompetence I suppose that makes me a conspiracy loon, too. I do not think that 5G causes CV19 and I do not believe the Queen is a lizard. However I do believe that there is a plan behind all this – follow the money – and that the UK Government is almost certainly not running the show. Otherwise none of it makes sense, 6 months and counting, with our whole economic, cultural and political life trashed and civil liberties down the pan.

I am not 77th either, I’m far too old.

I think the 77th’s MO is likely to be either doom-mongering, ad hominem attacks, time-wasting or straw-men arguments. One or two may indeed post outlandish conspiracy theories, above, to try to discredit us.

I detect their presence on here but believing conspiracy facts does not mean you’re a spook. As with the post about 4SD, below, and the WEF’s own website the agenda is happening in plain sight. ‘They’ are telling us what they’re doing if we can be bothered to read it! The SPI-B document is on the gov.uk website. It is all spelled out.

My view is that Toby Young’s allergy to conspiracy arguments is about something else i.e. keeping his own position as a MSM journalist and preserving his relationships with Tory party members. Like many other commentators he can afford to be scathing about what is going on but he’s a bit light on why. MW

157601 ▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #1133 of 1997 🔗

Good post MiriamW.

157602 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #1134 of 1997 🔗

Great post

157617 ▶▶▶▶ H K, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 6, #1135 of 1997 🔗

I agree 100%. Toby Young is playing the same game Nigel Farage does. He is making a point to keep within very narrow parameters so he can’t be accused of being x, y, z and maintain access to the mainstream.
As someone who does agree that there is something to some of the conspiracy theories (not all), i’m not knocking it, as Toby’s excellent work is very effective by sticking to the evidence which is hard to refute.

157648 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #1136 of 1997 🔗

“I think the 77th’s MO is likely to be either doom-mongering, ad hominem attacks, time-wasting or straw-men arguments.”

To a certain extent, such actions are counter productive.

I am an atheist and used to participate at a stand that Atheist Ireland ran in Dublin. I found the experience to be one of the best for refining my arguments in favour of atheism to exclude counter arguments presented by the religious.

Similarly, I have found others making pro lockdown points (here and elsewhere) to be excellent at forcing me to think further about the matter and refine my arguments against lockdown.

157786 ▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #1137 of 1997 🔗

I believe that’s down to civil servants, a lot of them. I have a retired friend who used to do them, a details man, he worked mainly from home years ago, poring over scenario’s for different things and used to produce reams of paper, along with quite a few others which were more often than not binned after distribution

157563 ▶▶ calchas, replying to John P, 5, #1138 of 1997 🔗

“Anytime that a hard-nosed analysis is put forth of who our rulers are, of how their political and economic interests interlock, it is invariably denounced by Establishment liberals and conservatives (and even by many libertarians) as a “conspiracy theory of history,” ”


“Far from being a paranoid or a determinist, the conspiracy analyst is a praxeologist ; that is, he believes that people act purposively, that they make conscious choices to employ means in order to arrive at goals. Hence, if a steel tariff is passed, he assumes that the steel industry lobbied for it; if a public works project is created, he hypothesizes that it was promoted by an alliance of construction firms and unions who enjoyed public works contracts, and bureaucrats who expanded their jobs and incomes. It is the opponents of “conspiracy” analysis who profess to believe that all events — at least in government —are random and unplanned, and that therefore people do not engage in purposive choice and planning.”

Murray Rothbard


157616 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to John P, 1, #1139 of 1997 🔗

Is “John P” short for “John Pretty”?

157626 ▶▶ jb12, replying to John P, 2, #1140 of 1997 🔗

Conspiracy loon here, and proud. I don’t want to call anyone names, but I will say if you think these prolonged, and now increasing, measures are an attempt to cover-up for an inital mistake, you are missing the point that that is also a conspiracy. The problem is that it is a lot less logical than thinking that supra-national entities are enacting plans of their own, especially when they literally tell the world what they want to do.

157678 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to John P, 1, #1141 of 1997 🔗

One thing I think we can all agree upon is that this extraordinary time is stretching all of us to the absolute limits of our understanding. I for one barely spend a waking moment without turning things over in my mind.

I would encourage everyone to document their position in writing, as if they were presenting a case in court. What has happened? Who is responsible? What are their means, motives and opportunities? What is the evidence for the answers to all of the preceding questions? This process in and of itself can only lead to a betterment of our knowledge.

157915 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to John P, 1, #1142 of 1997 🔗

What is this reference to ‘conspiracy loons’?
That’s tantamount to calling half or more of the forum ‘loons’..
We have a concerted conspiracy going on in front of our eyes.
Accepted that some of the key politicians may just be stupid.
But everyone behind the politicians?
Even if it was as simple as Big Pharma engineering a situation by which they can make billions, that would constitute a conspiracy.
But it goes much deeper than that.

157547 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 41, #1143 of 1997 🔗

Pretty sure this will be the speech tomorrow:-

“In March we perceived a threat that we couldn’t just ignore. At great cost to ourselves we did what had to be done to safeguard our communities, our sick and our elderly and most importantly the NHS. Through great determination we have succeeded and all the evidence we have now suggests that the worst is over and we can start to go about our normal lives again. I know some of you will have concerns but I can reassure you that our health care facilities are ready and capable to deal with what we can expect from the virus this winter. We will of course monitor the course of the virus closely as it has not gone away, but fortunately the rise in positive tests has not been accompanied by a significant rise in hospitalizations or deaths, so it looks as though our fears of a deadly second wave are unfounded. We have also seen how well other countries with less restrictive mitigation are coping.

With this in mind as of Monday we will be removing the mandatory wearing of masks and the rule of 6. There will no longer be a requirement for any social distancing. Theatres will be open, sports stadiums will be full, you will be able to see your friends and family. We cannot be complacent of course, good hygiene practices should be followed, you should stay home if you are ill, but life will be back to normal, the old normal. All that is left for me to say is thank you. Thank you for your sacrifices, your support, your determination. Once again this great nation of ours has shown that it is times of great need and adversity that we are at our best. We have weathered the storm now let us embrace the sunshine.”

Oh bugger, I was dreaming again wasn’t I?

157556 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Achilles, 1, #1144 of 1997 🔗

I read that and thought you and inside information……..

157564 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Achilles, 4, #1145 of 1997 🔗

I wish that would be true. I can’t imagine Witty and Vallance doing such a u-turn after only a week from forecasting a zombie apocalypse. I suspect its going to be a justification of a continuation of present policies.

157566 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Achilles, #1146 of 1997 🔗

Ah, the impossible dream.

157591 ▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Achilles, 6, #1147 of 1997 🔗

I wonder if Cummings has a cunning plan to get Boris off the hook.

First get the Two Ronnies to produce a dodgy graph – by subtle and untraceable means encourage them to scare the beejeezus out of everyone.

Make sure that Hancock’s fingerprints are all over it – including a “decision” to let the Two Ronnies do it all on their own without taking questions.

Wait for the figures to flat line in mid October.

Fire the 2 Rs for incompetence – huge payoff as hush money. Fire Hancock for “losing control” of the science/scientists – reverse ferret on all covid measures – Boris the hero and sunny uplands (and cake) await.

Nah – I didn’t think so either.

157608 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to charleyfarley, 7, #1148 of 1997 🔗

How about throwing SAGE under the bus? Literally.

157642 ▶▶▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Cicatriz, 5, #1149 of 1997 🔗

Along with Wancock.

157685 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Cicatriz, 2, #1150 of 1997 🔗

That would be a bumpy ride, but I would buy a ticket to be on the bus.

157751 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #1151 of 1997 🔗

As long as they backed up too to make sure (on the Precautionary Principle).

157607 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Achilles, 5, #1152 of 1997 🔗

And I would just add that “if you are worried you are of course free to stay at home but I would say to you that the personal risks are low and it is time for us to re-build this country and face the challenges ahead unencumbered by these restrictions. I will also be ordering a Royal Commission into the handling of this pandemic, chaired by a wide range of academics, and I hereby commit to accepting its findings, whatever those may be. And to paraphrase Ronald Reagan [this is Boris after all], I say to you Britons, tear down these restrictions!”

157634 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Achilles, 4, #1153 of 1997 🔗

I’m actually quite fearful for tomorrow as you only get those 3 together when there is a big announcement.
When fresh hell/nonsense will they come up with next?

157654 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #1154 of 1997 🔗

I’m anticipating national lockdown. I can’t think what else they would be going for so soon after the last broadcast.

157696 ▶▶▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to Charlie Blue, #1155 of 1997 🔗

and get it in quick before those pesky MPs can stop them

157639 ▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Achilles, 3, #1156 of 1997 🔗

Oh I almost felt a huge weight lifted from my shoulders… only for it to crash land back down on them again… 🙁

157677 ▶▶ Roadrash, replying to Achilles, 1, #1157 of 1997 🔗

I wish but it will be more local lockdowns and stricter measures. Liverpool Mayor is basically begging for the City to be locked down. It will happen and he will no doubt receive some extra Government cash.

157714 ▶▶ Templeton, replying to Achilles, #1158 of 1997 🔗

God I wish.

157717 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Achilles, 1, #1159 of 1997 🔗

I so wish this could come true.

158169 ▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to Achilles, #1160 of 1997 🔗

Perhaps it was a premonition. The best opportunity that the Government have to climb out of the hole that they have dug for themselves (and us) is to make your announcement (or one very like it) just before Christmas. They will slap themselves on the back and hope we don’t notice the recession. Or the care home deaths. Or the NHS patients who have been denied treatment. After all, it was all for our own good.

Alternatively, they could let this mess drag on in to the New Year. But why prolong the agony? I think the public mood is changing, and if Dominic Cummings is worth his salary he should be trying to find a way for his boss to save face. And what could be better than Santa Boris? Ho Ho Ho!

157562 Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, 8, #1161 of 1997 🔗

From the Spectator about an hour and a half ago from Ross Clark (apologies if this has already been posted).


Quote from the middle of the article.

“Meanwhile, recorded cases of Covid-19 have fallen for the third day running — and sharply, too. On Monday, 4,044 new cases were reported, down from 5,693 on Sunday, 6,042 on Saturday and 6,874 on Friday. While there is a certain amount of noise in the figures — and particular issues at the weekend — this is the first time new cases have recorded three daily falls in a row since 17 August. If we see the rate falling further over the next few days it will provoke serious questions, including more scrutiny of the graph presented by Chief Scientific Adviser Sir Patrick Vallance and Chief Medical Officer Professor Chris Whitty, which projected doubling in infections every week until mid-October.”

157580 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Ozzie, 19, #1162 of 1997 🔗

I think people are realising they shouldn’t be getting tested.

Congrats Boris, your £10k fine did the trick!

157808 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Farinances, #1163 of 1997 🔗

But many are being offered 50 quid a month to do tests.

157847 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Farinances, #1164 of 1997 🔗

There really might be something in that..interesting, heavy governmental dis-incentive. humm It might apply to the Track n Trace thing too. They are compelled to do this by “dark actors” and they are trying to break it but make it look as if they are fully compliant with the mandates.

157587 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Ozzie, 12, #1165 of 1997 🔗

The ‘second wave’ was load of bollocks from the start – we’ve had a minor uplift of possible Covid illness – absolutely in line with what is expected of infections generally at this time of year.

157595 ▶▶▶ Ozzie, replying to RickH, 1, #1166 of 1997 🔗

Agreed – what we will see (yet again) is the “emperor has no clothes”.

157635 ▶▶ Will, replying to Ozzie, 1, #1167 of 1997 🔗

Any sign of a figure today?

157645 ▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to Will, #1168 of 1997 🔗

Figures will be available at 16:33 apparently: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/testing

157651 ▶▶▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to The Filthy Engineer, 1, #1169 of 1997 🔗

or later if lower than 4044

157672 ▶▶▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to 6097 Smith W, 1, #1170 of 1997 🔗

7143 apparently. I’m not sure that I believe it on the basis that the trend was flat or downwards over the last week, and just, oh, ever so conveniently it looks like “nearly double in eight days”

I suspect that some of this number is down to delays in weekend reporting.

157949 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to The Filthy Engineer, #1171 of 1997 🔗

Of course the BBC reports infections!, not even cases, the highest ever.
Look at the dates of testing, they just published several days worth of results in one day. It is actually 354 +PCR for the UK for the 28th Sept.
They must have a huge backlog of test results which they now have added up, as they only processed 198.402 tests in the last 24h.

157582 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 24, #1173 of 1997 🔗

My office space (currently a shared space downsized from an office) has put out advice and guidance, which includes wearing a mask. I was there today maskless as I have been for many months on and off. I didn’t know that offices are suddenly in the remit but I suspected.

I was thinking more about Awkward Git’s posts in the past about Risk Assessments and that I think direct pushback can occur even for restaurants by asking them about their risk assessment and insurance cover for people wearing masks on their premises.

Insurance companies don’t cover it. So anyone who gets a sore or anything can sue that establishment or business and they won’t be covered.

if however mask wearing is a choice then you chose to do it to yourself and the business is not liable. But if it is a choice then you also don’t need to wear it or give any exempt reason.

I’ll be considering what to do next with my office. They’re a good office but I’ll be seeing what the risk assessment and insurance is. For my company introducing a mask to a non-sterile working environment is added risk of infection, since in surgical environments it never reduces contaminants and often increases them. Plus there is no severe and imminent threat. I’ve worn masks before when cleaning huge vacuum chambers (N95s with full googles and body suit). Even that had a 45 minute limit.

157583 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to mhcp, 4, #1174 of 1997 🔗

Spot on, and good for you.

157612 ▶▶ Julian, replying to mhcp, 3, #1175 of 1997 🔗

We’re reopening our office soon. AFAIK no plans for masks, don’t think they are yet mandatory by law, though that may come (hoping not – think it would make them more unpopular and be hard to sell).

157667 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to mhcp, 1, #1176 of 1997 🔗

My office has had mandatory masks since they re-opened in the summer, however we’re allowed to continue to work from home until January, so nobody’s going in at the moment.

Not sure under what premise they can mandate masks (no exemptions). Are they liable if it causes any health problem?

157676 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to zacaway, 3, #1177 of 1997 🔗

Yes they are.

157794 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to zacaway, #1178 of 1997 🔗

As Nick says yes they are. Same thing with wearing latex gloves which is why nitrile is often used. For masks there isn’t another solution that gets round the issues of things like mask acne, skin outbreaks, breathing complications from fibres. You can go on. But normally masks are worn for short times with specific risk profiles and adequate measures.

157801 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to zacaway, 1, #1179 of 1997 🔗

They should be liable.

One way to make them so is to explicitly ask them whether they can guarantee that wearing a mask won’t have any negative health implications.

If they refuse t answer, that’s a problem for them.

If they are sensible and reply that they can’t guarantee it, then it makes it hard for them to enforce it.

If they guarantee it, then they’re a bunch of kamikazees.

157589 nickbowes, 1, #1180 of 1997 🔗

Palm scanners – don t give the b stards any ideas !


157592 Kate, replying to Kate, 9, #1181 of 1997 🔗

I am so grateful to everyone who posts information they find here. It has been invaluable, but chilling, when I can see how planned this “crisis” is.
I am not sure I can read much today, it is too shocking. I hope they don’t succeed, but people need to wake up quickly.

157800 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Kate, 1, #1182 of 1997 🔗

I don’t know if it’s planned or not. But does it matter?

Isn’t the important thing that whether planned or not, all their draconian measures are just plain wrong and despicable? Isn’t that enough?

I say this because I really think that putting the idea forward that this is all a big plan undermines the message that it’s wrong. I don’t think the fact that it is planned would make lockdowns or enforced mask wearing any more wrong than it already is. And to someone who is on the fence, hearing that it’s all part of a big, nefarious plan can be off-putting.

Not criticising the idea that it’s planned. Just pointing out that I’m not sure that position is helpful in bringing people round.

157594 DRW, 16, #1183 of 1997 🔗

The Repeal the Coronavirus Act 2020 petition is doing well, it’s now reached 69,000 signatures with 409 in the last hour.

157596 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 18, #1184 of 1997 🔗


Now Greggs, doing well here, are set to wield the post furlough axe.

This might seem a dumb question, but I want to know how those who got us into this mess are going to sell mass redundancies, indebtedness, impoverishment and fuel poverty, not to mention drastically curtailed educational opportunities , loss of basic freedoms and not fit for purpose public health services to the great British public.

Not forgetting the obligatory tax increases needed to resurrect treasury revenues.

If or when this dreadful farce does grind to a halt, how will they spin it?

I just hope and pray that sufficient numbers of increasingly desperate people wake up and hold them to account.

157597 ▶▶ MizakeTheMizan, replying to wendyk, 8, #1185 of 1997 🔗

There will be a wealth tax, mark my words.

157600 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 2, #1186 of 1997 🔗

Yes, confiscation is coming. Since many of those boomers living their own homes are actually cash poor, having made their money in the 1980s, this is going to lead to some very sad stories. On top of lots of already sad stories…

157966 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #1187 of 1997 🔗

House prices will crash as no-one can afford to buy, so anyone hoping for a nice inheritance, just move into your parents house, ideally – is it 7 years? – they write it over to you so you do not qualify for inheritance tax, also solves the problem of getting care for the old dodgers. One of you will be at home anyway, as there are no jobs. Or the adult grandchild.

157622 ▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 8, #1188 of 1997 🔗

Rebranded as an ‘NHS tax’ no doubt to dupe people into supporting our national religion…

157738 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 1, #1189 of 1997 🔗

Yes, I agree, very likely.

157834 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 1, #1190 of 1997 🔗

good job lockdown has left me with no wealth then…..

157609 ▶▶ Julian, replying to wendyk, 7, #1191 of 1997 🔗

They will spin it that they had no choice, in order to save lives. This will wear increasingly thin.

157615 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Julian, 4, #1192 of 1997 🔗

I grow more cynical with each day that passes….

157614 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to wendyk, 3, #1193 of 1997 🔗

They will spin it as they won the war against the deadly virus and they are heroes.

157618 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Steve Hayes, #1194 of 1997 🔗


I wonder if they’ll purloin this?

157718 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to wendyk, #1195 of 1997 🔗

“Not forgetting the obligatory tax increases needed to resurrect treasury revenues.”

You mean the ones that don’t need to happen because the taxation will automatically occur when people who have saved in Gilts decide to spend their savings?

My spending is your income less tax remember and your spending is my income less tax.

Gilts are essentially a store of taxation to the value of the Gilt.

157731 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Lucan Grey, #1196 of 1997 🔗

What about those who’ve lost their savings, and are on PAYE if still fortunate enough to be working?
Will the personal allowance be adjusted downwards to catch more people?
Corporation tax?
Capital gains tax?
And, I dread to think, council tax?

157599 JohnMac, replying to JohnMac, 26, #1197 of 1997 🔗

Williamson promises that students will be home for Christmas.

How can he promise this? If they must be imprisoned for the public good because of the deadly virus, how can he tell when the deadly virus will abate? How would he know?

Or could it be – could it actualy be – that there is no good reason for them to be imprisoned right now? And never was?

In which case let them out so they can be students. Properly. Drinking, socialising (is that the word I want?) and all of that.

157793 ▶▶ stewart, replying to JohnMac, 1, #1198 of 1997 🔗

These ministers are like toddlers running around the house rearranging things thinking they are doing something brilliant when in fact they are creating a huge mess.

157830 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to stewart, #1199 of 1997 🔗

Don’t insult toddlers.

157828 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to JohnMac, #1200 of 1997 🔗

Don’t you know, CV Virus is going to his sister’s for Christmas.

157619 Liam, replying to Liam, 7, #1201 of 1997 🔗

I find myself wishing, with all my heart, that Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn was still with us, to shine the cleansing light of truth on this Covid Archipelago we’re “living” in.

157636 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Liam, 2, #1202 of 1997 🔗

Not yet……..we will be transported later.

157649 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Liam, 10, #1203 of 1997 🔗

I think of his immortal prose where he asks himself why the people didn’t stop it when they could, right at the start when they knew something was wrong. That’s why we have to stop this right now because we know how this goes – history tells us where this leads to if we don’t put the brakes on immediately.

157684 ▶▶▶ Liam, replying to Lili, 2, #1204 of 1997 🔗

The man was a titan, a moral colossus.

157657 ▶▶ BJJ, replying to Liam, 2, #1205 of 1997 🔗

That is what will happen to Assange

157620 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 13, #1206 of 1997 🔗

Useful tool to email your MP:

Tomorrow, MPs will decide whether to re-enact the Coronavirus Act, a piece of legislation that contains powers that would allow this Government to ban protests, strip back social care, close borders and suspend elections.

Use our easy tool to email your MP today and tell them to repeal these extreme measures and focus instead on a response that protects our rights.

Momentum is growing – more than 11,000 Liberty supporters have already emailed their MP. Keep the pressure up and email yours today.

157621 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Sarigan, 4, #1207 of 1997 🔗

You just beat me to it! Liberty have a petition to repeal the act here: https://liberty.e-activist.com/page/63681/petition/1

157637 ▶▶▶ Lili, replying to nocheesegromit, 2, #1208 of 1997 🔗

Done and passed on.

157659 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to nocheesegromit, 2, #1209 of 1997 🔗

Snap, just did the Liberty one too

157625 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1210 of 1997 🔗

Just done and thank you.

However, I’m not hopeful as she’s an SNP person.

157633 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to wendyk, 3, #1211 of 1997 🔗

Me too. Not hopeful either, mine’s sat on a huge majority and is probably more bothered about her career than her constituents.

157681 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to kh1485, 1, #1212 of 1997 🔗

We can but try kh.

157638 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Sarigan, #1213 of 1997 🔗


157643 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Sarigan, #1214 of 1997 🔗

Done. Brilliant.

157653 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Sarigan, 12, #1215 of 1997 🔗

Done. My edited letter to Hillary Benn:

Dear Mr Benn,

I’m writing to urge you to repeal the Coronavirus Act.

The Coronavirus Act allows police to take away the liberties of anyone they deem “potentially infectious” on a whim. That covers literally everyone, at a time when flu/pneumonia are a bigger risk than Coronavirus.

While this legislation remains in place, we do not have a free democracy.

I have read hundreds upon hundreds of epidemiological papers, run my own SEIRS+ models and created sensitivity/specificity calculators in order to help reassure friends of the real risks. I can assure you, I have never been drawn in by conspiracy theories.

My assessments chime with those of Nobel Prize winner Michael Levitt, Chief Epidemiologist Anders Tegnell and UK voices such as Prof. Sunetra Gupta / Prof. Carl Heneghan. We are not at great risk and these measures are completely unjustified. Not only do they need to be repealed, but we also need an urgent enquiry to ensure these Draconian measures cannot be invoked again in future.

Your father was a brilliant man – I would like to think he would be fighting on the side of freedom and democracy on this particular issue.

157669 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tee Ell, 8, #1216 of 1997 🔗

I had the privilege of attending one of Tony Benn’s talks after he had retired from politics. Although I am right of centre, I came away touched by the man’s obvious belief in parliamentary democracy and the importance of personal liberty. He did not convert me from Right to Left (not the point of his talk), but his standing with me increased considerably.

158244 ▶▶▶▶ Kristian Short, replying to Nick Rose, #1217 of 1997 🔗

Benn was a Brexiteer!

157868 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Tee Ell, 1, #1218 of 1997 🔗

I bet Hillary was really offended by that letter.

157660 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Sarigan, 3, #1219 of 1997 🔗

I’ve done it but not expecting anything from my loyal stooge MP.

157692 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Sarigan, #1220 of 1997 🔗

Already done.

157813 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Sarigan, #1221 of 1997 🔗

Still waiting for a reply from my MP after emailing him on Sunday.

157624 Kevin 2, replying to Kevin 2, 6, #1222 of 1997 🔗

For anyone who likes to follow the vaccine trial developments, I recommend Del Bigtree.
Here’s the latest edition (Twindemic 2020?). Very interesting discussion on the Oxford / AZN vaccine (criticisms from the US), the ‘challenge’ trial about to start (where the virus is deliberately injected into subjects) and also the flu vaccine, and the possibility of vaccine-induced viral interference.


157706 ▶▶ DespairSquid, replying to Kevin 2, #1223 of 1997 🔗

The Highwire has been brilliant throughout this nonsense.

The associated non-profit has been doing sterling work too in trying to bring rigour and accountability to vaccines, often via the courts: https://www.icandecide.org/

157641 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 10, #1224 of 1997 🔗

No end in sight yet. Over 7000 positive tests today. 71 deaths.
Whitless and Vacuous will be in absolute ecstasy.

157655 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1225 of 1997 🔗

Knock off the false postives ….

157656 ▶▶ Will, replying to Tenchy, 4, #1226 of 1997 🔗

No great surprise. I was expecting 8000 to bring the stats back into line after three days of falls.

157671 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Will, 1, #1227 of 1997 🔗

Me too. I was prepping myself and anything less than 8000 is a win… sort of.

71 deaths though which will undoubtedly cause new panic.

157675 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #1228 of 1997 🔗

Highest new cases and highest deaths since July 1. Incredibly convenient timing or we are all wrong?

157689 ▶▶▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Sarigan, 6, #1229 of 1997 🔗

Almost certainly held back some results from yesterday. Age profile of deaths is overwhelmingly to the 80 plus group per NHS stats ( which give 44)

157690 ▶▶▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to Sarigan, 3, #1230 of 1997 🔗

Posted elsewhere in this thread:

7143 apparently. I’m not sure that I believe it on the basis that the trend was flat or downwards over the last week, and just, oh, ever so conveniently it looks like “nearly double in eight days”

I suspect that some of this number is down to delays in weekend reporting.

157740 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Sarigan, 3, #1231 of 1997 🔗

71 deaths is meaningless noise. But every one a tragedy, obviously.

158005 ▶▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Sarigan, #1232 of 1997 🔗

I think they reported this on purpose today. If you look at the graph
Cases by specimen date, there are only 354 on the 28th, and 2.1k on the 27th.

158001 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to A. Contrarian, #1233 of 1997 🔗

Tuesdays they always catch up with the weekend.

157679 ▶▶▶ petgor, replying to Will, 5, #1234 of 1997 🔗

It will always be the case, that the figures are what the government says they are.

157663 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tenchy, 4, #1235 of 1997 🔗

Still not a doubling of Sept 22nd’s number: 4,926

157664 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Tenchy, 7, #1236 of 1997 🔗

Reported today, plus there’s the weekend effect.

157665 ▶▶ sarnskeptic, replying to Tenchy, 5, #1237 of 1997 🔗

This metric remains fairly meaningless because it includes a jam spread across previous days. I really wish people would stop using it. It has no credence whatsoever when 1000s of the 1000s will be from samples from across 7+ Days

157682 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to sarnskeptic, 2, #1238 of 1997 🔗

Correct. But it’s the one that seems to drive government policy on restrictions.

157687 ▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to sarnskeptic, 1, #1239 of 1997 🔗

Agreed. I posted a similar comment below.

157698 ▶▶▶▶ sarnskeptic, replying to The Filthy Engineer, 3, #1240 of 1997 🔗

And interestingly my spreadsheet shows that a good number of last weeks’s data has been revised downwards. From now on I’m going to keep separate columns for different weeks to see how much they’re changing by…

157666 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Tenchy, 9, #1241 of 1997 🔗

Convenient. The figures come into line just before the clown show tomorrow.

157693 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1242 of 1997 🔗

Daily admissions to hospital in England trending down – 314 on 23/9 and 241 on 27/9 (latest day recorded). Don’t know what the backfill was, but date of death series and specimen date of test series look as though they have peaked. Of course, you would anticipate the government to always present accurate data and information ahead of a crucial vote!

157728 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1243 of 1997 🔗

But hospitalisations steady(ish), no real trend – today 245.

157778 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Tenchy, #1244 of 1997 🔗

Unfortunately, 71 is higher than it was several weeks ago.
It’s all those pensioners having illegal rave parties and infecting each other…

158013 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Lms23, #1245 of 1997 🔗

Considering we had a temperature change from 27C on Tuesday, 22nd to 10C on Friday (at least in East Anglia), I am not surprised that quite a few frail people have succumbed at the weekend.

158000 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Tenchy, #1246 of 1997 🔗

Lets take into account these are results of several days. The infection/test took was at least 48h ago.

157644 Tim Bidie, 11, #1247 of 1997 🔗

The government is making a complete national and international laughing stock out of itself and this country

Deaths ‘where covid 19 was mentioned on the death certificate’ are flatlining.

Breakdown by age plumb normal.

Does this really sound like even a minor national health alert?:

The number of deaths registered in the UK in the week ending 11 September 2020 (Week 37) was 11,145, which was 576 deaths higher than the five-year average and 2,149 deaths higher than Week 36; of the deaths registered in the UK in Week 37, 110 deaths involved COVID-19, 27 deaths higher than Week 36.’

‘The number of death registrations may have been affected by the August Bank holiday (31 August). This can cause delays in deaths being registered in Week 36, resulting in an increase in deaths being registered in Week 37.’

Of the deaths registered in Week 37, 99 mentioned “novel coronavirus (COVID-19)”, accounting for 1.0% of all deaths in England and Wales.

This is the second lowest number of deaths involving COVID-19 since Week 12; an increase of 21 deaths compared with Week 36……’


157670 Biker, replying to Biker, 3, #1248 of 1997 🔗

Didn’t we have a lovely time the day we went to Bangor? We’ll never know the like again


157703 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Biker, 3, #1249 of 1997 🔗

And the Barron Knights’ remix :”Didn’t We Have A Lovely Time At The Office Christmas Party?”

157673 Mark, replying to Mark, 12, #1250 of 1997 🔗

Boris apologises after he out-bumbles Matt Lucas’s spoof trying to explain how Rule of Six works in North East – as he prepares to address nation again tomorrow alongside Professors Gloom and Doom comment image &lt;img src=”https://video.dailymail.co.uk/preview/mol/2020/09/29/805070470649170377/964x580_JPG-SINGLE_805070470649170377.jpg” width=”964″ height=544 /&gt; The PM floundered as he was grilled on how the restrictions work, suggesting that households could still mix in groups of six indoors. In fact, it appears households will not be allowed to mix, regardless of numbers. The toe-curling moment came after skills minister Gillian Keegan suffered a series of car crash interviews this morning, admitting she was unable to answer key questions over new curbs that come into effect from midnight. Answering questions about the North East lockdown at Exeter College in Devon, Mr Johnson said: ‘On the rule of six, outside the areas such as the North East where extra measures have been brought in, it is six inside, six outside. ‘And in the North East and other areas where extra tight measures have been brought in you should follow the guidance of the local authorities. ‘But it’s six in a home or six in hospitality, but as I understand it not six outside. That is the situation there.’ Ms Keegan was asked whether restrictions banning households in the region from meeting indoors from tomorrow applied to pubs and restaurant gardens. She said ‘I don’t know the answer to that question’.

157674 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Mark, 19, #1251 of 1997 🔗

The Daily Mail, along with the Spectator and Telegraph, is one of the few publications to come out of the coronapanic with some credibility as an actual news organisation, having continued to publish sceptical views throughout the panic, albeit alongside the same fearmongering bilge that was everyone else’s sole coverage.

But recently, it has excelled itself, really going for the government jugular.

Great stuff!

157680 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Mark, 14, #1252 of 1997 🔗

They converted late, but better late then never. I’m afraid much of the damage economically and to futures lives, is done. But we can still prevent any further calamity.

157686 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to jhfreedom, 14, #1253 of 1997 🔗

They were relatively good from the start, in that they at least allowed dissenting opinion, such as Peter Hitchens, and reported inconvenient facts ignored by the likes of the BBC and Guardian/Times.

I doubt I looked at the Daily Mail twice in the five years leading up to March this year, but since the panic started it’s been one of my most visited news sites.

157700 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ed Phillips, replying to Mark, 4, #1254 of 1997 🔗

Peter Hitchens writes for the Mail on Sunday. They are different newspapers.

157710 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Ed Phillips, 2, #1255 of 1997 🔗

Yes, there is different editorial staff so there is a certainly a difference. The Daily Mail Online has a lot of added celebrity garbage which doesn’t make it into either papers, but I understand it is very successful.

157860 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Ed Phillips, 1, #1256 of 1997 🔗

True, although they publish on the Daily Mail website, so a distinction without much difference for me, who hasn’t bought a hardcopy newspaper in decade. But they did occasionally publish other dissenting stuff, such as this rare piece of headline honesty about Sweden, back in the dark days of April:

Why is Sweden still faring BETTER in coronavirus crisis than Britain – despite having NO lockdown? Case backs claim social distancing and hand-washing was enough to flatten curve

157683 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Mark, 4, #1257 of 1997 🔗

I had to give up reading it.Recently it has become a little more skeptical but the entire MSM with a few honourable exceptions are guilty along with the government

157691 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, 17, #1258 of 1997 🔗

… and people are stupid enough to try to follow this bumbling incoherent nonsense?

Just been looking in detail at mortality figures.

There are absolutely no tangible, visible or logical reasons for any abnormal restrictions.

I was unseriously playing about with trend lines … and the one I couldn’t mimic is Tweedledum and Tweedledee’s ‘exponential growth’ fiction.

What a bunch of tossers!

157695 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to RickH, 8, #1259 of 1997 🔗

P.S. – It’s hard, using my standard period of analysis of 27 years to currently distinguish the 2020 line for mortality. from that of the minimum for that period!

What f.ing ‘public health crisis’?

157701 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to RickH, 3, #1260 of 1997 🔗

We’ll really know at the end of the year Rick. Odds must be on for 2020 ending up as a non-event?

157999 ▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Nick Rose, #1261 of 1997 🔗

Except for those of us who have to suffer through it.

157705 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Mark, 6, #1262 of 1997 🔗

Absolute nonesense – this ship of fools have made up so many idiotic rules they can’t even remember what they last said. Whitty and Vallence’s graph was the low point in treating the public like idiots – it would be hard to better that, but Bojo has managed to.

157726 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Mark, 3, #1263 of 1997 🔗

Just when you thought they couldn’t get any worse.

157734 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1264 of 1997 🔗

Why would you ever think they couldn’t get any worse?

157790 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Mark, 4, #1265 of 1997 🔗

Oh bloody hell. Every time the Fuhrer comes on the telly it’s really bad news.
What is he going to do to us this time?

157863 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to stewart, 3, #1266 of 1997 🔗

Double down on face nappies -mandated outside?

157699 Sarigan, 3, #1267 of 1997 🔗
157702 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1268 of 1997 🔗

The deaths figure is an underestimate. I know that, because The Guardian has just told me so.

The UK has recorded 71 new deaths. That takes the official headline total to 42,072. But this figure is an underestimate because it only counts people who have died within 28 days of testing positive for coronavirus. Overall more than 57,600 people have died from confirmed or suspected coronavirus in the UK.

157712 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Tenchy, 4, #1269 of 1997 🔗

They still don’t know why that cap was introduced.

157713 ▶▶ Will, replying to Tenchy, #1270 of 1997 🔗

I wonder if the Grauniad quote the death certification protocols in relation to Germany? I doubt it.

157752 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tenchy, 5, #1271 of 1997 🔗

For ‘Guardian’ read ‘Security Services propaganda feed.’

157756 ▶▶ Will, replying to Tenchy, 7, #1272 of 1997 🔗

A sudden spike in cases and deaths the day before a crucial vote. That they expect people to believe this shite is unbelievable.

157809 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Will, 2, #1273 of 1997 🔗

How convenient.

157763 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Tenchy, #1274 of 1997 🔗

Where do they get that 57,600 figure from? The Government’s dashboard says total Covid deaths are 42,072

157962 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to zacaway, #1275 of 1997 🔗

And don’t forget the caveat on that page. Even with only measuring deaths within 28 days of a positive test…

The actual cause of death may not be COVID-19 in all cases.

It’s right there on the page.

157771 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1276 of 1997 🔗

“it only counts people who have died within 28 days of testing positive for coronavirus”

Otherwise anyone who dies of anything at any time and who tested positive was being counted in the total. So the Guardian knows better??

157716 Mike, replying to Mike, 2, #1277 of 1997 🔗

May have been posted already, so apologies if it has. this just came to my attention and I thought it was worth sharing…
As incompetent as our politicians seem to be, who ever is pulling their strings or (lining their pockets) certainly has a wish list of things they want to implement and are charging full steam ahead with it!!

157725 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Mike, 1, #1278 of 1997 🔗

LOL! So no vaccination and you must still antisocial distance. Got a vaccination and you don’t need to. Is this guy for real? Surely he’s mentally unstable?

157730 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tenchy, 6, #1279 of 1997 🔗

I think a good few are mentally unstable now. Still no guarantee that a working vaccine will ever be found. Wish people like Ellwood would just crawl under a rock somewhere far away from me.

157804 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1280 of 1997 🔗

Point me in the direction of the nearest lunatic asylum.

157827 ▶▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1281 of 1997 🔗

You’re already in it

157817 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1282 of 1997 🔗

I just listened to his statement. I think he fancies himself for the job of head honcho for the national vaccination programme.

157826 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to ConstantBees, 7, #1283 of 1997 🔗

of course.. a vaccination just needs a little prick

157765 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Mike, 3, #1284 of 1997 🔗


Coronavirus digital health passport to be supplied to 15 countries
“Manchester-based cybersecurity firm VST Enterprises has signed a deal with digital health company Circle Pass Enterprises (CPE) to create a digital health passport designed to “manage a safe return to work, life, and safe travel” after the Covid-19 coronavirus pandemic.”


But the above is all in our imagination….

157806 ▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Lms23, #1285 of 1997 🔗

It is all incompetence, I say!

157844 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Mike, #1286 of 1997 🔗

Ellwood’s statement is available on Parliament.tv around the 20 minute mark on 28 Sept (Monday) . If you post comments on any media outlets, I suggest that you watch this and then post something where the public can see it. Use the Parliament tv link rather than Russia Today, since it’s a reputable source. Everyone needs to know what the government has planned for us.

157719 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 3, #1287 of 1997 🔗

Florian Krammer is probably oen of the most leading experts in virus and vaccine working in the US. He has produced a twitter thread of 138 which can be read here
I suppose most of you will be very sceptical and just go to 120 and see that almost all vaccines might not be good at all to stop transmission or 123 that elderly are particularly difficult to have a response. But some might be interested more in general terms about the vaccine and perhaps this is the best overview what is around. Perhaps even some of them would read his last 138 where he is giving his own preference.

157721 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1288 of 1997 🔗

I wish people wouldn’t do that and would just write a proper blog post instead.

157750 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1289 of 1997 🔗

There is a lot of good and interesting information here, and I sense that the writer is genuine.

But I also think that he’s conditioned to an interested over-optimism.

Bottom line : that Phase III trialling and approval should not be short-circuited.

… and then there’s the primary question : why bother?

157781 ▶▶ stewart, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1290 of 1997 🔗

This is my take away from that very interesting link:

That is some truly dense and complicated information to get one’s head around. It would take a serous amount of knowledge, training and time to fully understand how likely it is a safe vaccine is produced in a few months.

Given. that Matt Hancock can’t even do percentages properly, there is exactly zero chance that he is able, let alone has tried, to understand the different vaccine strategies and possibilities.

So, without any doubt, he is relying on someone to tell him whether it is worth going for a vaccine or not. The big question is who is telling him this and what exactly is the advice he is being given?

My guess someone with ties to the pharma industry, because every single layer of healthcare in western countries is heavily influenced by the pharma industry;

157789 ▶▶ guy153, replying to swedenborg, 3, #1291 of 1997 🔗

Yes I read that thread yesterday. One thing I didn’t know is that there are actually some DNA vaccines in development for SARS2.

These do go into the nucleus of your cells and start the process of making antigens there. This is in contrast to RNA or vector vaccines where the antigens are made in the cytosol.

I don’t think they’re part of a sinister plot to rewrite the human genome but I do owe Victoria an apology because I have said before that I didn’t think any of the Covid-19 vaccine candidates were DNA vaccines. But apparently there are some.

The Moderna one (which I think the articles she has linked to is usually complaining about) is not however. That’s an RNA vaccine.

I don’t mind vaccines so long as people aren’t coerced or bullied into taking them and people get it out of their heads that we should continue with stupid restrictions until we have one.

157908 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to guy153, 2, #1292 of 1997 🔗

Guy, if you are still around, I have a question.

In a DNA vaccine, say, what process places a limit on the amount of antigen produced by the cell? In other words what process turns the vaccine off?

I think vaccines can be dangerous because (for example) an inhaled virus would only present antigens to specialised immune cells in the respiratory tract, cells that live there for that purpose. I have always felt that an injected vaccine presents other risks as it places an antigen in the bloodstream – i.e. it has already bypassed the body’s defence mechanisms.


DNA and RNA vaccines work as an intracellular process. This bypasses natural barriers even further. ??

158684 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Kate, #1293 of 1997 🔗

Good questions. I don’t think anything turns DNA vaccines off. They keep churning out antigens until your own immune system kills the cell.

Florian was saying in that twitter thread that none of the vaccines are very good at preventing upper respiratory tract infection because of the fact they go straight into the blood.

The vaccine is trying to give you T-cells and antibodies and by the time you’re generating those from a real infection, blood and lymph nodes are involved. So that’s why it works to put them straight into the blood. But you aren’t going to get exactly the same immune response. You never do with a vaccine for all kinds of reasons– the idea is just to get one that works. I don’t know if suddenly filling your blood and cells with antigens without the usual warning your body would get from other mechanisms is more likely to trigger adverse reactions, but it’s plausible. The other thing is because they don’t replicate you’re giving somebody a huge dose in all one go. 10 billion particles right into your blood as opposed to a natural infection which typically starts with a few hundred particles setting up home in your nose or somewhere around there.

And yes, with an RNA vaccine the first your body hears about the antigen at all is after it’s already infected cells. This is very different from the natural process, and kind of the polar opposite of an inactivated whole virus vaccine, which looks just like a virus on the outside but doesn’t do anything. This is why the RNA vaccines give you better killer-T cell responses, which for some pathogens (but not others) is desirable.

If the vaccine is a bit sketchy this isn’t usually a problem if it works and stops you getting TB or smallpox. But it’s a much more finely balanced risk in the case of C19 to say the least.

157898 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to swedenborg, #1295 of 1997 🔗


I found this interesting. Only place I have personally seen confirmation of pre existing immunity and also confirmation that the LRT is the focus of the vaccine. Which is not great.

As I said yesterday. These vaccines don’t much look like magic bullets to me.

157952 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Leemc23, #1296 of 1997 🔗

No text on that link, sorry!

158471 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to swedenborg, #1297 of 1997 🔗

I read this yesterday (skimmed through it) and my initial thought was that this virus isn’t particularly novel based on how it has been possible to use existing vaccine research as the basis of one for this virus.

157735 Kate, replying to Kate, 17, #1298 of 1997 🔗

I do not see how the “new normal” and “Great Reset” can be successfully enforced.

The plan is to use a state of emergency to push through revolutionary measures, whilst persuading people that they are necessary to save lives.

The Germans were impoverished after the depression and Hitler actually improved their standard of living. He was admired and initially had the support of the German people .

But in our situation there is no doubt that,

  1. There is little or no risk of death
  2. People’s lives are being ruined by political decisions that are incoherent.
  3. The politicians DO NOT have the support of the populace.

Even emergency powers will not provide adequate control to get the “new normal” established.
There can never be public support for what is being done. It represents a massive reduction in our quality of life. Why would anyone want this? And as time passes it is becoming ever clearer that there is nothing in this for us.

Unless the “vaccine” contains some new technology that permanently transfers power to the elite, I cannot see how long term social compliance can be obtained. And I am pretty sure that this technology does not exist.

Boris and Hancock look terrified to me. I think they know they cannot pull this off.

This is why I think there has been a prior financial collapse/emergency that has forced them to act. In normal times you could not attempt such a thing.

A developed, sophisticated, affluent, educated society reduced on such a flimsy pretext to serfdom?
I don’t think it can be done.

157739 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Kate, 4, #1299 of 1997 🔗

The only thing you might reconsider is this :

There is little or no risk of death”

… as the the threat from the imposed measures are indeed life-threatening!

157742 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to RickH, 7, #1300 of 1997 🔗

Yes, and that is why our politicians do not have support. The threat comes from them, and people can see this – and those that do not yet realise it will soon wake up.

157769 ▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Kate, 7, #1301 of 1997 🔗

The elite are massively reducing people’s standard of living. There is bound to be resistance. They cannot permanently govern by force.

157757 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Kate, 9, #1302 of 1997 🔗

It looks like they are using the police and army to enforce their policies as exhibited by the recent events in trafalgar square, plus the threats of ever increasing fines.
That is no way to govern a country by threats/violence – and we are slipping into a dictatorial fascist state, all glossed over by the hoorah elites and Right Honorables Fat n’ Twat who haven’t a clue of how people’s lives and the country are being ruined.

158313 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sue, #1303 of 1997 🔗

Fat n’ Twat.
Perfect description!

157761 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Kate, 10, #1304 of 1997 🔗

To put into context: this is happening in many countries, but mainly in socialist-run countries or regions, i.e. Canada, NZ, Victoria – Australia, Ireland, and Democrat-run states.
In the U.S., there’s no nationwide lockdown. The Republican governor of Florida has lifted all restrictions across the state and is expecting life to go back to normal. In Democratic California, they’re still under lockdown. During the summer, beaches were closed. When local sheriffs refused to enforce the beach closures, people were only allowed to exercise on the beaches, but not sit down anywhere, plus they could only walk on the wet sand, but not the dry sand….
Equally insane measures were brought in in other Democrat states.
This isn’t across the board, but there’s a scary amount of parallel lockdown measures. They all seem to be keen on imposing Chinese Communist Party-style authoritarianism.

158315 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lms23, #1305 of 1997 🔗

It’s called “lockstep”
But there’s no agenda being played out internationally ….

157798 ▶▶ John Galt, replying to Kate, 3, #1306 of 1997 🔗

Hopefully it can’t be done, but they’re relying on people just going along with it so their lives are easier.

Something that will happen quite soon that will be a good indicator of this is flying abroad. They’ll say that if you want to fly abroad then you’ll have to have a recent negative test, which will then become you’ll have to have the vaccine. People will think “oh, I want to fly, and I guess a test isn’t a massive inconvenience, so I’ll just do it”, then it becomes “oh, I’ll just get the vaccine, I need some sun”, and slowly but surely things that were previously abnormal become normal because to not comply with them will lead to your life becoming abnormal.

157885 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to John Galt, 4, #1307 of 1997 🔗

But “the vaccine” will harm people. It is inadequately tested.

Current vaccines cause injury. This injury will be impossible to conceal in a mass vaccination campaign.

157942 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Kate, 1, #1308 of 1997 🔗

Well, they have succeeded in hiding the false positives, at least to some extent. It seems like you have to be a sceptic to know that they exist. Funny that, since I used to do one-on-one maths tutoring in the States. We taught false positive and false negative maths so the students would understand the concept. But I never met one who had heard of it before.

158090 ▶▶ Steve, replying to Kate, 2, #1309 of 1997 🔗

The fact that they look terrified, scares me the most. They’re capable of anything at this stage and will keep on doubling down, threatening and keep moving further and further towards totalitarianism.

157736 RickH, replying to RickH, 13, #1310 of 1997 🔗

For information again :

I have just sent a last-minute e-mail to my MP with my up-dating of current mortality.

We shall see.


Following my recent e-mails re.the government’s predations using Coronovirus as a cover , I thought that this simple graphic might help with determining how to vote tomorrow :

[ https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0?ui=2&ik=5c5e9f3d92&attid=0.1&permmsgid=msg-a:r-1487279672656831048&th=174da9c279ea8e8c&view=fimg&sz=s0-l75-ft&attbid=ANGjdJ8DYq_tokWN-HiQB9yw-3NCRQepCmR1A0tmN6hrcNXTXA012CmIjsH7azxeOHRxAx-COOZHnH-QWlXIRgx3wHfuoe2aVgT_8ZChi07dY72ilvziUdgo16a5jKM&disp=emb&realattid=ii_kfo57dac0 ]

The red line shows all-cause mortality in 2020, mapped against the maximum (1993) and minimum (2011) of the past c. quarter century.

You will note that mortality is now bubbling along around the minimum for the period, with no rationale for the scare stories promulgated by the inexplicably poor ‘scientific’ advice being given air-time.

Whatever the blips in the next six months (and no – the ‘measures’ have no part in creating this low level of mortality), there is certainly no grounds for creating panic and imposing the features of a police state in a democracy. There is no ‘crisis’.

This is not one for abstention – let alone complicity or political expediency.


157744 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to RickH, 6, #1311 of 1997 🔗

Well said. But this seems to be pre-supposing that your MP (and the others) don’t know this already, and that all these ‘rules’ and ‘laws’ and ‘guidance’ are merely a result of ‘panic’ without research.
They’re not. They’re the result of cold calculation. We don’t know how many are in on it, but you can bet your bottom dollar there are gains to be made, even for the lowliest.

157785 ▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, #1312 of 1997 🔗

Following the link – Gone Error 410

157748 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to RyanM, 4, #1314 of 1997 🔗

In the U.S., it’s all about the election.
I’m guessing, but I’d put money on the CDC director being a paid-up member of the Democrat party.
Trump has issued a directive to stop all mandatory critical race theory/unconscious bias training in all government departments. The CDC is defying him and going ahead with it.

157832 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Lms23, 5, #1315 of 1997 🔗

Very much a political issue as the vast majority of bureaucrats are Demcorats (in addition to virtually all of the press).

I will say, though, that people aren’t really talking about CV19 right now. There is a presidential debate, tonight, a heated Supreme Court nomination, and an election coming up in about a month. People aren’t remembering to keep the virus panic up.

Also, in spite of the fact that our mask-mandate is still in place, and the threat to businesses is still presumably valid, I’ve given up even pretending to play along (I used to wear a bandanna around my neck to go to stores) the last few times I’ve gone to the grocery store. There is nearly 100% mask compliance at this point, but nobody has said a thing about my not wearing one.

I don’t know how many have converted to full-blown skepticism, but I think there are a lot of people who just don’t really care, anymore.

Of course, I’m still seeing the occasional hipster (young people, mostly) who is double-masked with a bandanna on top of an N-95, gloves, etc… But, as I’ve been saying for a long time, when the mask mandate is lifted, these people will become a novelty.

157741 Banjones, 18, #1316 of 1997 🔗

I am VERY glad to hear someone saying (thanks Ms Latham) that it is a matter of ‘CHOICE’ whether or not people wish to be ”shielded” ( another of those ‘S’ Newspeak words ). This disgustingly patronising attitude towards anyone of any age, or state of health is unacceptable. This manipulation and coercion is something we should never accept, for ourselves or on behalf of others who have no opportunity to state their case.

157745 Lms23, replying to Lms23, 18, #1317 of 1997 🔗

Digital Immunity Passports Are Coming
Computing Forever, 29th May

After all, it’s not as if any of this has been predicted in any way at all, i.e. terrify the population into submission, allow a little freedom then take it away again to destroy hope, impose ever more draconian measures to control them…

Coronavirus digital health passport to be supplied to 15 countries
“Manchester-based cybersecurity firm VST Enterprises has signed a deal with digital health company Circle Pass Enterprises (CPE) to create a digital health passport designed to “manage a safe return to work, life, and safe travel” after the Covid-19 coronavirus pandemic.”

But mention any of this stuff and they call you a conspiracy nut….

157768 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Lms23, 7, #1318 of 1997 🔗

The problem is that the conspiracy tag is applied very loosely to a whole range of people:

  • Full on conspiracy theorists who believe a group of people are executing a master plan for world reorganisation
  • People who believe that governments are lying to us and using the virus as a pretext to advance their power or the interests of a narrow group of people.
  • Those who think that bad things are going to come out of this because of how different interest groups exploit the situation – things like immunity passports, health surveillance and such like.

Only the first of those are conspiracy theorists really.

The third of those are definitely not conspiracy theorists, just people who know the world can be a shitty place and see what is coming.

Those in the second group are not really conspiracy theorists either. They just see the system as corrupt and open to manipulation from interest groups. Sometimes they are right on the money and sometimes they overstate the extent to which things are planned.

157788 ▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to stewart, 2, #1319 of 1997 🔗

As I’ve been saying to people recently: there are conspiracy theories and conspiracy theories.

157848 ▶▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to mattghg, 3, #1320 of 1997 🔗

One person’s conspiracy theory is another person’s hypothesis waiting to be proven.

157871 ▶▶▶▶▶ wayno, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 7, #1321 of 1997 🔗

I called all this shit show at the beginning and was told to put my tin foil hat down. Big bag of told you so’s being dished out, but I would have been over the moon to be wrong.

157888 ▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to stewart, 2, #1322 of 1997 🔗

The ‘conspiracy theory’ tag, as you put it, was specifically designed to sideline scepticism of the Warren Report into the assassination of JFK. Kennedy was refusing to let Israel have nuclear weapons, a decision speedily reversed by LBJ; he also wanted to end the banks’ ability to create money as debt, a notion that also put paid to Abraham Lincoln. (Which ability, BTW, is the root cause of this Covid scam.) There was also talk of organised crime being involved, and various other theories were floating about.


By saying ‘I’m not a conspiracy theorist’ you are playing the CIA’s psychological game. There is a conspiracy afoot, but it is no longer being hatched in private, at Davos. They’re even crowing about it:


157747 Chris John, replying to Chris John, 5, #1323 of 1997 🔗

In a galaxy, far far away, the Bellendorian Hancock rises from his slumber to see how else he can royally screw the populace with his latest brain farts

157824 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Chris John, 3, #1326 of 1997 🔗

Hancock is a Vogon . you can tell by the fact every time he appears on tv he is reciting Vogon poetry.

157843 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to mjr, 1, #1327 of 1997 🔗

Vogon Constructor Fleet are running the NEF.

157762 godowneasy, replying to godowneasy, 22, #1328 of 1997 🔗

Is there anyone on this site who disagrees with the assertion that we are now entering a permanent state of COVID-driven restrictions and, that once COVID-19 has gone there will be something else taking its place? Vaccines won’t make any difference. We are on the brink of massive societal change which will be permanent. Our pre-COVID era lives are already becoming a distant memory, never to return.

Just look at the way the language on “restrictions” has changed in just the last few weeks. We had “temporary / 2-3 weeks” which flipped into “6-9 months / medium term” only in the last week or two. Now we are seeing “long term / permanent” being increasingly used.

These are some quotes from Ireland today but will apply almost anywhere. Paul Reid, CEO of Health Services Ireland:
·        “even with a vaccine, the reality is that we will be dealing with Covid-19 for a long time yet
·        “We must all adapt our way of life through a combination of behavioural, societal, and healthcare delivery changes.
·        “it is increasingly evident that we can expect and should therefore plan for subsequent waves of the virus”
·        “a transition to a more permanent model for testing and tracing is currently underway”

We are surely facing the total breakdown of society. There will be massive resistance. This will be met with increasing force. It’s going to be horrible. It would be great if someone can give me something tangible to be positive about in middle of this total shit show.  I don’t think that saying “they couldn’t get away with it” is very reassuring – look at what they’ve done already.

157767 ▶▶ Smelly Melly, replying to godowneasy, 6, #1329 of 1997 🔗

Unfortunately there will be no resistance and us sceptics will be criminalised.

157773 ▶▶ Julian, replying to godowneasy, 12, #1330 of 1997 🔗

I think it is certainly true that the government has discovered that ruling through fear is easier than trying to stay popular, and it will be hard for them to stop – it’s probably addictive. So they have no real reason to declare the pandemic over. And many other organisations have understood this is a good opportunity to push their agendas, so they too have a vested interest is pushing this nonsense forever.

The bar has been set far too low, the vaccine won’t be 100% effective, and I can’t see how they are going to back away from masks, having pushed them so hard. And yes, the surveillance the health passports will be hard to get rid of.

So yes, I think we are in grave danger.

157865 ▶▶▶ wayno, replying to Julian, 4, #1331 of 1997 🔗

I live in the North west, where you know we are all lepers, and apart from the masks no one has taken notice for weeks. Resistance may not be on show but people are just doing wtf they like from what I can see.

158030 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Julian, #1332 of 1997 🔗

Oderint dum metuant.

158264 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, #1333 of 1997 🔗

Omnes homines sunt asini vel homines et asini sunt asini

157776 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to godowneasy, 7, #1334 of 1997 🔗

Resistance has been extremely limited to date. The brainwashing has been so terrifyingly successful that even a series of shocks may not be enough to wake the masses from their slumber. There has undoubtedly been a minority in every country where an authoritarian regime has flourished that asked exactly the same questions as it emerged from the shadows. History teaches us that this minority has failed every single time to turn back the tide. We will once again have to learn our lessons in the hardest way imaginable.

157782 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to godowneasy, 7, #1335 of 1997 🔗

There won’t be massive resistance, but there will be increasing force. It’s already underway. They will have their way and that’s it. Look at them passing laws every five minutes just to make sure we do what they say, because what they say has no basis in fact, nothing to justify it.
We are headed down a deep, dark hole, and only killing them and replacing them with people who think differently can stop this. And that’s pretty unlikely.

157792 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to godowneasy, 2, #1336 of 1997 🔗

Review of comments received so far: There will be no resistance, we’re completely fucked, don’t bother being positive! Thank you friends.

157807 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to godowneasy, 1, #1337 of 1997 🔗

No I think to successfully take over society you must initially promise the populace something better – which they are not doing.

Or seriously frighten them – but there are no dead bodies in the streets – everyone can see (even if they don’t admit it to themselves yet) that this is not a real emergency.

157810 ▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Kate, 3, #1338 of 1997 🔗

This “emergency” is nothing when you compare it to real crisis. Unless they come up with something else the momentum will peter out. People will resist.

157841 ▶▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Kate, 8, #1339 of 1997 🔗

More realistically, people’s attention spans will fail them. They are going to stop remembering to be panicked. The only thing keeping up the hysteria is the government and its mandates. When things like this don’t have overwhelming public support, it is amazing how quickly the house of cards can crumble. If you have a handful of politicians making a stink (and remaining popular), that will grow… and once the government allows people to make their own decisions, the entire thing will fall apart. That will happen very, very quickly.

I am already starting to see it happen here in the US. That doesn’t mean it can’t turn back around (certainly, it came out of nowhere!), but I suspect that as people get tastes of their normal lives, again, there will be a snowball effect.

157925 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to RyanM, 2, #1340 of 1997 🔗

The problem is that here in the UK we are not getting a taste of our normal lives and normal life is not on the horizon.

158092 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Kate, 2, #1341 of 1997 🔗

Their timing is slightly out of schedule. The idea was to coincide food shortages, with vaccine availability, with immunity passports giving access to essential services (and rationing?)
Despite ‘their’ best efforts, they know that they cannot roll out the vaccine until maybe Feb at the earliest. Food shortages will commence mid-December, as the world and his wife finally realise that Kent changes from the Garden of England to being a lorry park on Jan 1st.
Two things inevitably lead to rioting that cannot be contained; no money, and / or no food. The money issue will be mediated by extending a half-hearted furlough, and by making self-isolation payments. That will keep the masses quiescent on that front. But having created the circumstance for guaranteed food shortages, they’ve got a problem. There will be two months with no food and no vaccine availability. (Vaccine nationalism will come into play. In the US they are already coming out and saying that AZD1222 is not looking safe..)
When I talk about ‘them’, I’m talking about everyone behind the politicians, the politicians being merely puppets, stupid or not. The Jeffrey Epstein playbook of control by compromise (or downright blackmail) is widely employed. I know (without knowing ) ) that one of the regulars in front of our screens is being blackmailed after prior entrapment. And probably two or three others. If you know individual’s proclivities, you know their vulnerability to being ‘compromised’.
If none of it makes sense to you, you should develop a supposition or a hypothesis that does make sense, and with each new development, amend your hypothesis, if things don’t fit.
I haven’t had to change my hypothesis at all since February!

(Above is opinion based on ever-developing confirmatory evidence)

For anyone new to all of this, I would suggest viewing the excellent four-parter on Bill Gates on Corbett Reports.


And then look at compromised funding received by each individual SAGE member.
Then you will be well on the way, and unlikely to remain a ‘conspiracy sceptic’ for very long!

Maybe start here:-

“A Message to New Conspiracy Theorists” by the excellent James Corbett.


158102 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Kevin 2, 1, #1342 of 1997 🔗

An excellent post – I recommend reposting higher up so more people will see this!

158173 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kristian Short, replying to Kevin 2, #1343 of 1997 🔗

Fully agree. However, they will not win in the end.

157814 ▶▶▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Kate, 5, #1344 of 1997 🔗

Hi – I Don’t agree with your last sentence. If the majority of people could see that it was not a real emergency then we wouldn’t be where we are now. The fear campaign has been so successful that they don’t need bodies in the streets. I think they may be keeping that option in reserve for when their bogus “cases” collapse.

157818 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to godowneasy, 1, #1345 of 1997 🔗

I do worry about their next option ……I just did not want to say so……

158271 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Kate, #1346 of 1997 🔗

The virus isn’t a real emergency but the underlying agenda is fast getting to that point for the proles.

157829 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to godowneasy, 22, #1347 of 1997 🔗

I am more optimistic. I think the shit show has a month to run. The redundancies are going to start piling up over the next couple of weeks. I am anticipating at least one FTSE 100 firm facing severe financial difficulties – a name that could shock the market. There will be a rapid change of mood driven by an apocalypse scenario for the economy. Boris is toast, and he knows it. Even of he survives the renewal of the Act this week, the party is preparing to get rid of him. Out on the streets, most ordinary people already know this virus is not the problem, and the scale of scepticism is increasing with the behaviour towards the students.

157854 ▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1348 of 1997 🔗

Good post, I agree!

157856 ▶▶▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #1349 of 1997 🔗

Thanks – I hope you are right.

157857 ▶▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #1350 of 1997 🔗

I’d go for RR being the first

157878 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to arfurmo, 1, #1351 of 1997 🔗

Agree – year-to-date share price signals disaster imminent. Government would have to step in, but it would send shivers through the market.

157994 ▶▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #1352 of 1997 🔗

I agree we are turning the tide .Lets keep the morale high and stop this defeatist nonsense that ruins the comments every night. Do you think people win wars by saying we’re doomed again and again ?. tomorrow belongs to those who keep their spirits high and fights hardest .

158029 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1353 of 1997 🔗

You said a month two weeks ago! I’m holding you to the Ides of October …

158324 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1354 of 1997 🔗

Great post and I think you’re right about at FTSE100 firm in deep trouble and if that goes it could trigger a shock wave that will wake up even the most asleep.

158036 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to godowneasy, #1355 of 1997 🔗

Sorry, but that qualifies as Most Unhelpful Comment of the Week. And it’s only Tuesday.

158269 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to godowneasy, #1356 of 1997 🔗

Inspiring stuff, what!

157816 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to godowneasy, 8, #1357 of 1997 🔗

I think there are quite a few MP’s who think personal freedom is worth fighting for and more seem to be coming forward as the time goes on, they and their families want to live in a free society too.

157850 ▶▶ RyanM, replying to godowneasy, 3, #1358 of 1997 🔗

I disagree.

Everything you say is possible. Societies do crumble – though they don’t often crumble in that manner – but that doesn’t mean that this particular breakdown is inevitable.

Here is a historical exercise. Try to take all of the signs that are pointing toward this breakdown, and consider times in the past where those same sorts of signs have arisen. Think about the unexpected ways that people have behaved, the unexpected people who have risen up, intervening events, etc… There are many times in the past when people like us could easily have buried our heads in our hands and despaired that this is truly the end, and surely there have many people to do so.

Not everyone accepts this from a Christian perspective, but consider this outlook: These things are not in our hands. Even the idea that government or other powerful forces have control is pure vanity. We have seen attempts at population control, just as we have seen attempts at centralized and guided economies. Sometimes it works, for a while… there are certainly places in the world where people are truly oppressed by totalitarian regimes. Yes, it is all possible … but nothing is inevitable.

157883 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to godowneasy, 3, #1359 of 1997 🔗

The major factors keeping this thing going are:

  1. The WHO/Democratic Party/China anti Trump alliance. That ends 03 Nov.
  2. Brexit. That ends pretty much this month.

Added to which BCG phase 3 trial preliminary results are in end October 2020.

This country and its government are already an international laughing stock.

Domestic pressure against restrictions is now gathering momentum.

The whole thing will go away quite quickly spring 2021 latest

157891 ▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to Tim Bidie, 5, #1360 of 1997 🔗

We can only hope.

157893 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Tim Bidie, 5, #1361 of 1997 🔗

Spring 2021!, ffs. They should drop all this shit by Friday.

157928 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Two-Six, #1362 of 1997 🔗

I just want it not to get worse. But it seems like the badness is accelerating.

158002 ▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Two-Six, #1363 of 1997 🔗

They should never have started it in the first place.

Why did they?

‘PARIS — French President Emmanuel Macron told British Prime Minister Boris Johnson on Friday that he would close the border if the U.K. did not take more restrictive measures to contain the coronavirus.

“We had prepared the closure of our border and told Prime Minister Johnson we would implement it that day if there was no evolution [of British measures],” a senior French official….’


The Brexit angle will, hopefully, play out between now and next spring…..

157900 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to godowneasy, #1364 of 1997 🔗

Reid should have stayed as CEO of Fingal County Council. He is looking very worried in his public appearances.

157766 Tee Ell, replying to Tee Ell, 7, #1365 of 1997 🔗

I’ve been wondering whether we should have some way of punishing businesses that are particularly militant about enforcement of silly rules.

A member of staff in this place was incredibly rude about my mask exemption the other day, so I wondered whether anyone fancied leaving a negative Google review:


I will of course return the favour if people have their own examples.

If anyone feels that it’s not appropriate to post “personal vendettas” on this site, and thinks we should stick to positive actions and discussion of the politics/science – please do say. I was a bit hesitant about posting for this reason because I prefer positive action as a general rule.

157777 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Tee Ell, 14, #1366 of 1997 🔗

Do it. Fuck ’em. You are in the right, unlike the mask zealots, whose ‘moral high ground’ is based on lies and ignorance. Sick of ’em now.

157779 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Tee Ell, 7, #1367 of 1997 🔗

I don’t see what’s wrong with reporting what has happened – of course it may be down to one or two individuals rather than company policy, so good to follow up with an email of complaint to head office, and report back what they say – sometimes it does some good.

157884 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Tee Ell, 3, #1368 of 1997 🔗

Go for it.
They are collaborating with repression. They deserve it.

158028 ▶▶ annie, replying to Tee Ell, 2, #1369 of 1997 🔗

I’ve been tempted to put a ‘zombie shop’ sticker against certain establishments.

157770 Lucan Grey, replying to Lucan Grey, 8, #1370 of 1997 🔗

ONS to 18th Sept:

157780 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Lucan Grey, 2, #1371 of 1997 🔗

So if I’m understanding correctly essentially we are saying there is a peak the week after Bank Holidays because effectively, in terms of the data collected, the week of the B/H is a 6 day week and the week after is an 8 day week? If that’s the case that’s very handy for tomorrow isn’t it?

157783 ▶▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Achilles, 13, #1372 of 1997 🔗

The key takeaway for me is the level of flu and pneumonia deaths.

I just don’t think people can get their head around the idea that over 10,000 people a week die in the UK normally.

157797 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Lucan Grey, 5, #1373 of 1997 🔗

That’s also the smoking gun that Covid deaths are down because of herd immunity to Covid not because of NPIs.

157799 ▶▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Lucan Grey, 1, #1374 of 1997 🔗

That much was evident when the daily death counts started in March/April.

157815 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Lucan Grey, 4, #1375 of 1997 🔗

no one dies unless you know them personally or know someone that knows them
I dont know anyone so I am immortal

157924 ▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Lucan Grey, 1, #1376 of 1997 🔗

People are arguing that it’s because of the new “death within 28 days of a positive test” rule. They’re postulating that people are still dying from covid after 28 days and it’s being recorded as pneumonia. Whilst ignoring the fact that someone can be hit by a bus 27 days after a (dubious) positive test and it still be recorded as covid.

158211 ▶▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Lucan Grey, 1, #1377 of 1997 🔗

Will there be questions at tomorrow’s performance?

I hope someone puts this graph to Dumb and Dumber.

157784 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to Lucan Grey, 1, #1378 of 1997 🔗

Good Chart

157774 NickR, replying to NickR, 14, #1379 of 1997 🔗

Hospitalisations by region. I don’t see the fuss about London, Khan just trying to get in on the action.
Reaction totally out of proportion. If the Government wanted to mandate something why not 2 hours exercise a day, vitamin D, zinc.
Let the university students all get infected as soon as possible, if you can isolate them from each other how much easier to isolate them from old/vulnerable people & that’s another brick in the community immunity wall cemented in place & then they can all go home at Christmas & get on with their lives.
Remember, in Scotland not a single death under 25!
In England & Wales 39 deaths of under 40s without comorbidities. 1 death for each single year cohort from 0 to 40.

158290 ▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to NickR, #1380 of 1997 🔗

Yep Khan feeling left out methinks. I thought he was busy hunting down racist blue plaques..

157791 zacaway, replying to zacaway, 7, #1381 of 1997 🔗

Not sure if anyone’s seen this already – saw it reported on UK Column. CDC’s latest infection fatality rate and survival rate, by age group:

157795 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to zacaway, 2, #1382 of 1997 🔗

If the IFR is that low, why is Fauci still in a job?

157796 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #1383 of 1997 🔗

Presume his job is try try to beef it up a bit more, otherwise people might start to wonder what the hell all this madness is for.

158284 ▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #1384 of 1997 🔗

Well Trump has the ability to fire people like it’s a bodily function, so I’m sure the possibility of getting rid of Fauci has entered his mind. Though actually, certainly in the US it is very difficult to get fired in the Administrative Gov. Bureaucracy, only happens to a tiny fraction of 1%… usually the process involves getting one’s superiors to take administrative action against them, which not only takes years, but involves numerous lawyers, and probably intimidation. Much easier to sideline them, (as Trump appears to have done) or dump them under so much pressure they bugger off, of their own accord.
Go back a few years, Eric Holder, when Obama pulled a Nixon during the fast & furious scandal (the illegal invoking of executive privilege) and Holder was ordered to turn over documents.. it got to a point where discussing potential prosecution was ridiculous, because the Justice dept basically reported to Holder!… he did resign though, when put under mountains of pressure.

157819 ▶▶ Jack, replying to zacaway, 4, #1385 of 1997 🔗

There was a typo on this that they corrected on Monday. The middle column should have read ‘Infection Fatality Ratio’ and the %’s removed from that column.

157822 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to zacaway, 2, #1386 of 1997 🔗

The CDC IFRs are ratios and not percentages. The correct figures are still very low but should be:

0-19 0.003% 99.997%
20-49 0.02% 99.98%
50-69 0.5% 99.5%
70+ 5.4% 94.6%

158329 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Sarigan, #1387 of 1997 🔗

This is absolutely mind bending. I have just seen the news report of a 20 year old student, healthy, locked in her dorm and for this? There is no individual representation anymore. Where are the human rights groups? It’s all so insane the sheer level of cognitive dissonance

157833 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to zacaway, 1, #1388 of 1997 🔗

The 70+ figures are out by a factor of 10 – should be around 0.5 – 0.6%.

This slide is not from CDC – the data is here:


157907 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Ozzie, #1389 of 1997 🔗

Makes quite a difference if so. Transferred to a UK age breakdown, I make those numbers equate to an IFR for the UK of 0.9%, but 0.2% if the 70+ figure is incorrect, as you suggest.

157803 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 4, #1390 of 1997 🔗

INFERRED RESOLUTION THROUGH HERD IMMMUNITY OF FIRST COVID-19 WAVE IN MANAUS, BRAZILIAN AMAZON “Our results are consistent with heterogenous transmission reducing over time due to the development of herd immunity. Relative to a baseline model that assumed homogenous mixing across Manaus, a model that  permitted a small, self-isolated population fraction raised the estimated herd-immunity threshold from 28% to 30% and reduced the final attack rate from 86% to 65%”“Previous studies have assumed that the first wave in Manaus was significantly mitigated by non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs). While these restrictions may have partly constrained early transmission, local reports indicate that implementation was highly variable. Moreover, a possible role for immunity is suggested by the observation of declining cases and deaths over a period in which restrictions were officially eased.”“individuals aged 75 years or more accounted for 39% of the excess (Figure 1a). During this period, 7% of the 75+ male population in Manaus died.”
This is an important article as the calculations are made of all excess mortality which was more useful than official test data which did not capture enough of the situation. Also interesting that in this third world population C-19 affect elderly also very significantly.Manaus is 2 million population city in the middle of Amazons. Another published article recently about high sero prevalece in Manaus reach similar conclusions https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.16.20194787v1
COVID-19 herd immunity in the Brazilian Amazon “In June, one month following the epidemic peak, 44% of the population was seropositive for SARS-CoV-2, equating to a cumulative incidence of 52%, after correcting for the false-negative rate of the antibody test.
 “The seroprevalence fell in July and August due to antibody waning. After correcting for this, we estimate a final epidemic size of 66%. Although non-pharmaceutical interventions, plus a change in population behavior, may have helped to limit SARS-CoV-2 transmission in Manaus, the unusually high infection rate suggests that herd immunity played a significant role in determining the size of the epidemic.

157835 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1391 of 1997 🔗

Very interesting.

Life expectancy Manaus 68

157812 AnotherSceptic, replying to AnotherSceptic, 6, #1393 of 1997 🔗

Oh do fuck off!!
The scum fear spreading rag that is Edinburgh Live at it again!!!


& as for the “terrified worker” they can go fuck off also…Bedwetting Twat that they are.

157837 ▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to AnotherSceptic, 9, #1394 of 1997 🔗

I don’t think you realise how terrifying it is to think you may against all the odds catch an infection of a killer virus that has no symptoms with no or mild illness and er doesn’t kill you

157846 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to tonyspurs, 7, #1395 of 1997 🔗

A virus so deadly that the advice is that if you catch it, go home and sit on your arse for 2 weeks.

157876 ▶▶▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to Sarigan, #1396 of 1997 🔗


157975 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to tonyspurs, 1, #1397 of 1997 🔗

If you are a zombie, that prospect is so terrifying that you want to lock up the entire world and let everybody else die of something else so that you your miserable little self can avoid catching … a virus that has no symptoms and … er … doesn’t kill you.

157864 ▶▶ mjr, replying to AnotherSceptic, 3, #1398 of 1997 🔗

As I will continue to remind everyone, Edinburgh Live / Evening News , like every local newspaper have 4 “Local Democracy Reporters” embedded who are employed and paid for by the BBC. Hence all the local media output contains BBC bias.

157995 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mjr, #1399 of 1997 🔗

You can certainly tell!

157992 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to AnotherSceptic, 1, #1400 of 1997 🔗

Sounds as if the Range feel like we do about the “danger”!

158074 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to AnotherSceptic, 1, #1401 of 1997 🔗

Load of pish! is that how desperate they are, crap.

157831 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 8, #1403 of 1997 🔗

Anna Brees getting concerned for her safety?


157849 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Sarigan, 3, #1404 of 1997 🔗

Her question:

Is Boris doing this because he wants to do this?

157853 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Sarigan, 4, #1405 of 1997 🔗

Her coverage of the weekend was excellent. Good on her, she done some great work. I’ve noticed how the more extreme end of the zealot camp are becoming increasingly vicious.

157875 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to PoshPanic, 1, #1406 of 1997 🔗

It’s so easy for people to get sucked in. They start off as glory supporters and end up as SS Charlemagne

157872 ▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to Sarigan, #1407 of 1997 🔗

One of the replies on that Twitter thread
WTF is a voluntary lockdown? -A . No lockdown this is the mentality we’re up against

157912 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to tonyspurs, 1, #1408 of 1997 🔗

But strangely fewer excess deaths than Finland and the same number as Denmark, both of whom certify their Covid deaths, like the Germans, much more stringently. The Guardian has been banging away along this “Sweden did actually lockdown line”, like almost everything else in the Guardian is is complete and utter horse shit.

157938 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Will, 2, #1409 of 1997 🔗

Voluntary lockdown is somewhat poorly phrased. I imagine the poster means that people voluntarily distanced based on govt advice or what they thought was best for them.

This is indeed true – people worked from home and travel went down considerably. Tegnell has said this, and Carrie, our Sweden correspondent, concurs. So yes, there was a reaction to the virus, including some behaviours that were mandated in the UK and elsewhere, which may have slowed the spread a bit, though probably not much.

You can argue it wasn’t necessary, but given that it was voluntary I would accept it as you had the option to ignore it (barring a small number of measure that were law). It’s light years away from what happened here in the damage but probably more than sufficient in terms of protecting hospitals from having too many patients at once.

157976 ▶▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Julian, 2, #1410 of 1997 🔗

Which is exactly what we were doing in this country, successfully, and with near universal compliance. It worked as well, hence why the peak of infections was a week before the lockdown. The reason it worked, imho, in this country and in Sweden is because people felt like they were making a difference. As soon as the government decided to boss people about they actually became less conscientious.

157987 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, #1411 of 1997 🔗

And Sweden have admitted that they got it badly wrong with the carehomes, whereas we’re clearing hospitals again ……

158055 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, 1, #1412 of 1997 🔗

‘Carrie, our Sweden correspondent’ – haha, you flatter me!

Yes, as you say, people listened to the advice and adapted accordingly – both individuals and businesses.

As I have written before, it does not help that Tegnell and Giesecke (more often the latter) have in interviews of late called the measures a ‘soft lockdown’ and I am not sure why they have started to do this, whether it is a way of getting the world’s media off their backs, or at the request of the WHO, or what..

But on the more positive side, Giesecke in his appearance at the Irish Covid committee was very forthright and rather less than subtle in criticising other countries’ measures! It is worth a listen (you can scroll through to just his parts) https://www.pscp.tv/w/1OyJAgeqpeDKb?t=2h16m17s

157958 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to tonyspurs, 2, #1413 of 1997 🔗

So if they did actually lock down, and Swedish people are so amazing that they “voluntarily” followed it to the letter… Why did they have a more protracted outbreak and far more deaths per capita? Is it because lockdowns have got pretty much sod all to do with it?

No, it must be because even though they locked down and followed it perfectly, they didn’t lock down which is why deaths were so high. Perfect logic.

158060 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1414 of 1997 🔗

The care home deaths plus the deaths of elderly people living in their own homes but getting council care in Sweden account for 70% of the deaths here..

158040 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to tonyspurs, #1415 of 1997 🔗

From my little house here in Sweden…sigh…

157851 ConstantBees, replying to ConstantBees, 13, #1416 of 1997 🔗

I posted this in response to someone else’s comment, but it bears repeating.

Tobias Ellwood’s statement about the military being mobilised for vaccination of the whole population is available on Parliament.tv around the 20 minute mark on 28 Sept (Monday).

After listening to it, I feel like I should apologise to the conspiracy folks – I’ve resisted for a long time, but he is advocating a two-tier society based on vacc status.

If you post comments on any media outlets, I suggest that you watch this and then post something where the public can see it. Use the Parliament tv link rather than Russia Today, since it’s a reputable source. Everyone needs to know what the government has planned for us.

157869 ▶▶ stewart, replying to ConstantBees, 1, #1417 of 1997 🔗

There is no 20 minute mark on that link.
It is the 20:24 mark

157896 ▶▶▶▶ Jo, replying to zacaway, 1, #1419 of 1997 🔗

That is my death sentence

157882 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to ConstantBees, 1, #1420 of 1997 🔗

Have you forwarded that to Toby? Important that he doesn’t miss it.

157897 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Rosie, 1, #1421 of 1997 🔗

Ha. Like he’s responded to anything I’ve written to him recently. I live in his constituency. At least for the moment.

157951 ▶▶ Will, replying to ConstantBees, 2, #1422 of 1997 🔗

They can plan whatever they want, compulsory/ contingent vaccination is illegal and, at the slightest hint of it being introduced by the government, the government will be in the courts, and they will be in the courts for a very long time.

157974 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Will, 2, #1423 of 1997 🔗

I don’t think it’s illegal under the Covid Act and the amendments to the 1984 Health Act.
They have seriously draconian powers that would allow them to section you if you refuse, on the grounds that you’re incompetent, then vaccinate you anyway. They can also take your kids, or detain you indefinitely.

Watch this:

158027 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cheezilla, #1424 of 1997 🔗

On the bright side, it doesn’t matter. It’s against International Law, so it’s illegal.

158609 ▶▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Nick Rose, #1425 of 1997 🔗

Well let’s hope they don’t break that in some narrow, specific way then.

158023 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Will, 2, #1426 of 1997 🔗

Against International Law. So they’ll be in the Hague. Ellwood really should know better; despite his Army service, he may not know one end of a rifle from the other, never mind have any knowledge of law. Just another nasty little dictator enjoying his moment in the sun, riding around on a tiger he dare not dismount.

158041 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to ConstantBees, #1427 of 1997 🔗

I won’t be apologising to them. Bad as this is, it isn’t the same bullshit they were spinning about not being allowed to go shopping or take part in anything, etc etc.

157855 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 13, #1428 of 1997 🔗

So, will it do?

Dear Jason McCartney.
I’m writing to ask you to vote against the extension of the Covid Act tomorrow. There is plenty of other perfectly suitable legislation that the government can use to handle our current situation – the difference being that they are subject to parliamentary scrutiny while the Covid Act permits them to govern by diktat.

Here’s a very clear example, given by Mark Harper yesterday. Quoted from Hansard:

The regulations, which came into force at midnight last night and which were only published, or made, at five o’clock yesterday, contain some very serious powers that were not in the statements made to Parliament last week. ….. There are duties that are put on employers that create criminal offences both for the company and for individual managers in that company. I do not know how many businesses in this country are aware of the fact that these duties have now just landed on them—I would hazard very few.

…. Those are all questions that no one in this House has been able to ask a Minister, because the regulations came into force last night. They have to be debated within 28 days, but that could be a month away and it could happen after they have been amended several times, as we have seen with other regulations. I do not think that is the right way to make the criminal law and introduce important sanctions in a democracy.

It was quite shocking that the North East of England was locked down with such unseemly haste that the Prime Minister himself didn’t know the new rules today. Yet, anyone in NE England caught infringing them would have been guilty of a criminal offence and subject to crippling fines.

The worst thing is that people are not ill, they are not dying of Covid 19. Yes, positive test results have soared because the taxpayers are having to pay for thousands of unnecessary tests every day. The Pillar 2 PCR tests return a 91% false-positive rate. * (Please see article appended below for explanation.) That means that, for today’s trumpeted 7,143 new “cases”, 6,500 will not be carrying the virus. We know that most of those being tested in the community are symptom-free and being forced to be tested for work, travel or school. We also know that there is no evidence that children pass on the virus.

Since the spring of this year PHE’s figures have shown a consistent pattern where the Pillar 2 tests have a positivity rate four times that of Pillar 1 tests. This is counterintuitive when one considers that Pillar 1 tests are taken in a healthcare setting from people who are actually symptomatic.

Then there is the problem with the testing itself. As has been proven, if you do enough cycles, you can find “evidence” of “sars-cov-2” anywhere, even in a papaya. A result after a low number of cycles would mean a more reliable positive – assuming the samples were handled appropriately in a sterile environment and not a tent. Positive subjects should then be independently retested from a fresh sample. This is not happening. When asked how many cycles are being used for PCR tests in the UK, the answers have been evasive.

Spain have reduced their Pillar 2 PCR CT cycle from 45 CT to 30-35 CT.
The impact has shown a dramatic fall in symptomatic “cases” from 11,588 on 18 Sept to 2,425 on 28 Sept.
The “covid deaths” during this period have also reduced from 241 to 59.

Part 2 follows >>>>>>

157861 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #1429 of 1997 🔗

He is my MP too. Earlier on I posted here the reply I got from him. Disheartening, but let us know if he shows any sign of starting to listen.

And warm regards from a fellow Huddersfudlian.

157870 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Now More Than Ever, 4, #1430 of 1997 🔗

Greetings fellow Colne Valley-ite 🙂

157881 ▶▶▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1431 of 1997 🔗

Excellent message, by the way, and well done for highlighting the FPR.

McCartney appears to be going on the YouGov data of 23 September which indicates the apparent strength of support for the government’s actions. I must admit I have no knowledge of how YouGov collects its data or the way in which it frames its questions (I’ve certainly never been asked anything by them myself!), and I also feel that the public mood has shifted considerably even in the past 6 days.

157963 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Now More Than Ever, #1432 of 1997 🔗

Thank you. Here’s his reply:

Dear XXX,
Thank you again for passing on your comprehensive views and evidence, which I have noted.

Discussions are still ongoing on what will be brought forward with the Coronavirus Act renewal tomorrow in terms of further Parliamentary scrutiny. I will consider any amendments chosen by the Speaker and the extension of the Act on merit, after listening to both constituents and the debate.
Kind regards

158018 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, #1433 of 1997 🔗

Sounds to me as if he may, just may, be beginning to think that it will soon be time to jump ship.

158180 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, #1434 of 1997 🔗

He’s been very cautious with his replies and covers all bases – but at least he replies promptly.

157902 ▶▶▶▶ wayno, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1435 of 1997 🔗

Colne? Web toe 😂 j7 65 👍

157959 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to wayno, 1, #1436 of 1997 🔗

Not Colne. Tother side o’thill.

157859 DRW, replying to DRW, 6, #1437 of 1997 🔗

Dave Cullen’s latest video is a good watch : https://www.bitchute.com/video/TBch8gwfH_E/
Good round-up of sceptical news, he thinks that the truth is “a tsunami about to hit the shoreline”.

158012 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to DRW, 1, #1438 of 1997 🔗

It is about to hit, I sensed it coming on Saturday.

158176 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to DRW, #1439 of 1997 🔗

That’s all I want for (an early) Christmas!

157866 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 22, #1440 of 1997 🔗

Part 2

So the evidence is very strong that we are not suffering from a deadly epidemic but from a far deadlier casedemic, which is being used to generate fear and systematically destroy the economy and remove our freedoms. I put to you that we are no longer living in a democracy. We are currently being governed by fiat, with totalitarian measures being taken against the people of this country.

The separation of our elderly and their loved ones is cruel and inhumane. My daughter-in law’s father has but a few days to live because of terminal cancer. She’s not allowed to visit him and support her mother because she is the victim of a false positive test result. By the time her unnecessary quarantine expires, he will have died.

And what about the vital psychological and social development of our children, whose futures are already blighted by the financial ruin that the lockdown measures have wrought upon this country? What about the schoolchildren who have just been told they will have to eat their lunches outside thoughout the winter? What about the students who have paid thousands to universities, only to find themselves under house arrest?

I will not comment on the ridiculous scaremongering graph, paraded so mendaciously by Whitty and Vallance last Monday. I think Sir Desmond Swayne admirably summed up that scam. I wholeheartedly agree with him that the covid policy is completely disproportionate.

Instead, I leave Sir Graham Brady to describe the feelings of many of the UK electorate:

“The habit of getting away without scrutiny, not being held accountable, is very attractive for governments. So it’s not entirely surprising that, having started off legislating by decree in the coronavirus measures, that ministers have got into the habit of doing that. But it isn’t acceptable, it isn’t the way we are used to doing government, and it’s not appropriate in a free country and parliamentary democracy like the United Kingdom.”

Yours sincerely,

* Appendix. Explanation of the false positives:

Dr Mike Yeadon is the former CSO and VP, Allergy and Respiratory Research Head with Pfizer Global R&D and co-Founder of Ziarco Pharma Ltd.

“Allow me to explain the impact of a false positive rate of 0.8% on Pillar 2. We return to our 10,000 people who’ve volunteered to get tested, and the expected ten with virus (0.1% prevalence or 1:1000) have been identified by the PCR test. But now we’ve to calculate how many false positives are to accompanying them. […….. etc etc]

The letter is much longer than I intended but I feel much better now!

157989 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1441 of 1997 🔗

I feel better for having read it. Such honesty, clarity and emotional force are rare.
Why are people like you, Awkward Git and our other heroes not sitting in Parliament?No doubt you were busy doing good and useful things, but by God, the scum floated to the top while you were busy elsewhere.

158175 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, #1442 of 1997 🔗

Oh thank you Annie, that’s very kind!

I feel I do very little, I’m afraid.
I just pass on info whenever I can.

157867 AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 2, #1443 of 1997 🔗

Melanie Philips still thinks that we are dangerous loons / granny killers.

The road to hell? Really?

Liberty is important, but surely so is protecting life and health


157879 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 24, #1444 of 1997 🔗

My response to people that say we are granny killers is that they are child killers. Just wait for the suicide stats in a year.

157903 ▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Achilles, 5, #1445 of 1997 🔗

100%. Melanie Phillips prides herself on going ‘where the evidence leads’ but with the KungFlu she just says ‘trust the government, they know best’ and doesn’t present any evidence to back up her arguments.

157913 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Achilles, 30, #1446 of 1997 🔗

I am a grandad and clearly my wife is granny, we find this talk of killing granny the most appalling patronising drivel. Granny and Grandad are on Twitter and on Lockdown Sceptics and can think for ourselves thank you very much. It really riles me when these sanctimonious gloom mongers presume to speak for me. I say not in my name -end all lock down measures now..

157931 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Steve Martindale, 16, #1447 of 1997 🔗

My parents and my in laws do not want any of their grand children compromising their lives for their sakes. As my 91 year old step father said “I have had a very good life and, if this is the disease that kills me, so be it, I will not be locking down/ shielding again and that is that.”

157956 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Will, 3, #1448 of 1997 🔗

Awesome dude!

158020 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Will, 2, #1449 of 1997 🔗

Logical reasoning.

157954 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Steve Martindale, 8, #1450 of 1997 🔗

Hear, hear – from another granny!

158033 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1451 of 1997 🔗

Absolutely, we are all ” Coffin Dodgers” when we get old.

157961 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Steve Martindale, #1452 of 1997 🔗

Provide all the information we have, update it as our knowledge grows, and allow people to make their own risk assessment, followed by their own choice.

A lean freedom is better than a fat slavery.

157983 ▶▶▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #1453 of 1997 🔗

Hear hear Steve, exactly my thoughts. I am a Granny, a young one for the age of my grandson but that is irrelevant. I would rather that the young were out enjoying life, as I did, than living in this revolting dystopia.

158026 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #1454 of 1997 🔗

SNAP,from fellow grandparents and sceptics.

157953 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Achilles, 3, #1455 of 1997 🔗

Covid kills old people, sad though this is. It does not kill children. Flu kills babies. If we don’t make a fuss over flu, then why over covid?

157978 ▶▶▶ Telpin, replying to Achilles, 5, #1456 of 1997 🔗

More to the point, all the grannies I know are saying: ‘ Not in my name’

157880 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 17, #1457 of 1997 🔗

I’m shocked by Melanie Phillips. I thought she was better than this. Most people want to live before they die.

157899 ▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Rosie, 3, #1458 of 1997 🔗

Me too. I like a lot of her writing, and find it thought provoking, but there are still some odd inconsistencies in my view that do not stand up to rational thought (in addition to her stance on WuFlu). For e.g. she holds that the war in Irag was still justified even though WMD weren’t found. In my opinion, thats not the point. The WMD were used as the justification. If there was a better justification to convince the UK people then it should have been used. The ends do not justify the means, that’s the route taken by all dictators / revolutionaries / tyrants throughout history.

157934 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Rosie, 2, #1459 of 1997 🔗

Melanie Phillips has never struck me as the sort of person who would be particular happy admitting she has got something wrong.

157964 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Will, 2, #1460 of 1997 🔗

Odd, because admitting when you’re wrong usually gains you respect among your friends. Your enemies are your enemies, whatever you say.

157970 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Rosie, 1, #1461 of 1997 🔗

Incredible isn’t it? My natural assumption is to assume that if a person is sound and contrarian on one thing, it must mean that rationality and independence of thought runs through them like a stick of rock. But in the cases of Phillips and Liddle that’s clearly not true. And then I think the opposite: their brains are clearly all over the place and they must have just ‘fluked’ the correct views on some things.

It’s a bit like some of Delingpole’s interviews where he assumes his guest is thoroughly sound and then they come out with some appalling idiocy. In Johnny Ball’s case, I think he didn’t just disagree with Brexit but revealed that he thought Brexiteers were bad people. And the gamekeeper, whose name I don’t know, said it was obvious from his personal experience that man was changing the climate. In both cases Delingpole had to end the interview right there.

157932 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, #1462 of 1997 🔗

Well, “whoever she is” is relying on Bernard Jenkins to back her up. She must be as mad as a bag of frogs!

157939 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 6, #1463 of 1997 🔗

Considering obesity and diabetes are also key factors in survival rates why don’t they go around saying “Fatty Killer”?

(No offence to any fatties. I think I’m technically one too. Lockdown hasn’t helped.)

157945 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Achilles, 1, #1464 of 1997 🔗

Lockdown is a menace when it comes to comfort eating. And beer.

157950 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 3, #1465 of 1997 🔗

Melanie Phillips has always been a self-righteous twit!

158043 ▶▶ PhilipF, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 2, #1466 of 1997 🔗

She’s one of several people who have proved to be a real disappointment. I’m thinking of Rod Liddle, Dominic Lawson, Charles Moore. I’m sure there are others.

158097 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 1, #1467 of 1997 🔗

She is in the ‘vulnerable’ age group – likely clouds her judgment somewhat..

158417 ▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Carrie, #1468 of 1997 🔗

My suspicion is that this may relate to her faith (Jews were unusually hard hit by the virus) and possibly affection for Israel – which has been very lockdown fanatic, enabled by their high security approach.

157874 JHuntz, replying to JHuntz, 33, #1469 of 1997 🔗

I think this current student lockdown may well be the most ridiculous of all. Why are we locking down a group who are of absolutely negligible risk of the virus? Why don’t we let them spread COVID and god knows what else whilst away from grannie and grandad? why are we even considering cancelling their Christmas when it is 84 days away? since when did the virus have an incubation period of calendar months?

157877 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to JHuntz, 21, #1470 of 1997 🔗

These last two weeks have been ALL about the renewal of the Covid Act

157920 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to JHuntz, #1471 of 1997 🔗

Because science.

157948 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JHuntz, 1, #1472 of 1997 🔗

Too much common sense in you post JH.
Hopefully the student situation will be a tipping point that wakes up a lot of sheeple.

157889 nocheesegromit, replying to nocheesegromit, 10, #1473 of 1997 🔗

Just had an email from my university entitled ‘good news’. I was hoping for something along the lines of ‘all teaching will now be face-to-face with no online bollocks’ but the actual news is that there will be a testing facility on campus.

In other slightly better news they are putting pressure on the government to ensure on campus students are allowed home for Christmas.

157890 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to nocheesegromit, 2, #1474 of 1997 🔗

Uggh. Definitely anything but good news

157892 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to nocheesegromit,