Last updated2020-09-30T08:56:30



158550 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 3, #1 of 2160 🔗


158553 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 1, #2 of 2160 🔗

Oh Lordy, Lordy, first

158554 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 17, #3 of 2160 🔗

Hot off the press, the dictator sold his London home in September

Political Asylum in Belarus?

(please take the others with you)

159876 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Cecil B, 2, #4 of 2160 🔗

Well he is having cashflow difficulties due to the salary the people are paying him to be PM!

158857 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Cecil B, 5, #5 of 2160 🔗

If you’re first, you’re responsible for giving it to everyone else. Pretty much the root of all evil!

159791 ▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Tee Ell, 1, #6 of 2160 🔗

The Father comes First, but putting your self first is the root of all evil.
If you haven’t any sense of your existence as a gift – you wont know it is given you to share in.

Its ok – I know you are making light of whatever it is to thirst for being first.

159325 ▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to Cecil B, #7 of 2160 🔗

Well done dear boy! Hope you get a chance to listen to the Pod. Next one is all about 1984…

158551 Julian S, 2, #8 of 2160 🔗


158552 wayno, #9 of 2160 🔗


158567 ▶▶ annie, replying to Tom Blackburn, 17, #11 of 2160 🔗

Good one.
I think reaction to the cancer scandal is intensifying. Even zombies may be realising that the chance of getting breast cancer – maybe leading to disfiguring surgery, and even after that (as in my mother in law’s case) to a painful death – is pretty high, if your incipient cancer isn’t picked up by screening so that no action is taken.

Maybe not higher, in what zombies call their minds, than the chances of instant Covvideath, but that perception will change. Is changing, I suspect.

Ironically, our salvation may in the end be due to the selfish fears of the zombies: what am I, myself, personally, the only person who matters, most likely to die of? (Not implying all zombies are women, btw. Men have cancers too…)

158581 ▶▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to annie, 16, #12 of 2160 🔗

I think you might be right on this one. It’s amazing it’s took 6 months for the penny to start to drop on this one. There’s no mask for cancer as far as I know !

158621 ▶▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to NonCompliant, 12, #13 of 2160 🔗

I guess no one realised, despite the set up of the Nightingale hospitals, the NHS became a covid only service

159846 ▶▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to crimsonpirate, 2, #14 of 2160 🔗

You were called to clap for the replacement of the NHS with the CHS.
The same is occurring throughout the body politic as a shift to PPP.
But as with US-speak, ‘partner’ means asset. That’s why Putin chooses to use it for the US asset bloc. Monopoly does not partner – except allinace of temporary convenience. THAT is one basis for a prediction that this tower of Babel will also fragment. There is no life in it. It has only the life given in sacrifice to it. That is what fear ‘does’ to those who hide and protect it behind a masking narrative identity.
‘It Lives – We Sleep’.

158659 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to annie, 2, #15 of 2160 🔗

Indeed we do. Was lucky because I had my bloods done just before the shitshow broke.

158678 ▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Nick Rose, 7, #16 of 2160 🔗

I asked about the NHS Health Check, just a simple test for 40+ involving weight, blood pressure, cholesterol, diabetes test and some useful health advice. GP not interested at all.

158698 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to jhfreedom, 6, #17 of 2160 🔗

No Covid case bonus is why.

158773 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to jhfreedom, 5, #18 of 2160 🔗

I never have a problem getting my health check. About the only time I see my GP. I am disgustingly healthy, despite the best efforts of HMG.

159295 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to jhfreedom, 3, #19 of 2160 🔗

If you’re worried, you can check your own weight, blood glucose and blood pressure with cheap but reliable gadgets at home.

Cholesterol tests are a waste of time. Our immune and nervous systems depend on cholesterol, (which doesn’t cause heart disease) and measures to suppress it are inappropriate. (So much for useful NHS advice!).

If this is news to you, see Malcolm Kendrick for more info.

158688 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 14, #20 of 2160 🔗

Lady interviewed on R4 news this morning, normal breast cancer screening in March cancelled; found two lumps in May had to wait until recently for diagnosis, two ops and awaiting chemo.

Perception is changing, I’ve had a few people bring it up in the Conversation themselves recently.

158778 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to karenovirus, #21 of 2160 🔗

Hope all turns out well for you.

158983 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Nick Rose, #22 of 2160 🔗

Was the lady being interviewed

158919 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 1, #23 of 2160 🔗

Followed by Womans Hour presenter “record case numbers mean a new peak for the virus “ 👹

159824 ▶▶▶ Binra, replying to annie, 5, #24 of 2160 🔗

An independent Cochrane study established that mammograms were a liability and that huge numbers of women have been subjected needlessly as a result to procedures that are sickening, sometimes mutilating, and often fatal.
the fear of ‘infection’ or latentcy of disease as a basis to self-deny – even self-attack – is not a new idea.
Why not vaccinate babies against sexually transmitted disease?

There will be some positive to some who do not receive their treatments – along with those who are now manually medically managed and depend on it to live.

Lockdown stats revealed a significant lowering of infant deaths that points very strongly to interrupting the vaccine schedule.

In all matters, use your medical advisor. I am not suggesting treatements or their denial but to look before you leap – or sign away your health to consequences that are well known and in the package insert.

Just because you WANT to find ammunition against the lockdown policy, be wary of accepting ANY foe to their claim as your friend. (That’s one of the ways we are repeatedly hacked, manipulated and delivered unto evil).

158652 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tom Blackburn, 20, #25 of 2160 🔗

It’s all stacking up, but it’s gut-wrenching to know all this shit is completely unnecessary

159069 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Nick Rose, 10, #26 of 2160 🔗

So Johnson and Hancock have murdered thousands of our fellow citizens, with many more to die, as they are denied proper treatment. This criminal pair are now clearly doing their best to repeat their massive cull of the old and frail that they carried out in the Spring. How many more dead will there be, before Cressida Dick eventually does the right thing and has them both arrested? I’m not holding breath, she’s not known for doing the right thing.

159553 ▶▶▶▶ Draper233, replying to Rowan, 3, #27 of 2160 🔗

Unfortunately I think the only thing Dick is interested in is sending in stormtroopers to attack peaceful protesters.

159635 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Draper233, 2, #28 of 2160 🔗

Yes, you are almost certainly correct.

165039 ▶▶▶▶▶ Colin, replying to Draper233, #29 of 2160 🔗

I remember Cressida Dick when she was a Superintendent in Oxford back in the 90s. She was doing the same thing then – she once sent mounted police to break up an entirely peaceful student demo about tuition fees.

158767 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Tom Blackburn, 6, #30 of 2160 🔗

NHS is being rebranded COS…Covid Only Service

159133 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to PoshPanic, 5, #31 of 2160 🔗

That happened six moths ago.

158822 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #32 of 2160 🔗

If you read that tweet with the information contained in this interview with Richard Atlas, you’ll grasp just how enormous this health catastrophe is


159560 ▶▶▶ Draper233, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #33 of 2160 🔗

I’ve already watched this and strongly recommend it to everybody. So refreshing to hear so much logic and common sense.

158968 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Tom Blackburn, 10, #34 of 2160 🔗

Bowel cancer screening for the 50+ ages was stopped in February in Scotland.
So that is another major killer of men & women that the NHS is deliberately allowing to run rampant. Its not a maybe, the reason we set up routine bowel cancer screening is because it was killing so many people and is preventable.
Other countries have not stopped routine cancer screening, just the callous NHS.
Krankie and the dentist sockpuppet should be charged with being complicit in excess deaths for this.

158556 Basics, replying to Basics, 46, #35 of 2160 🔗

Tobias elwood to the commons. We need to prepare for a time up to a year when those who have had the vaccine are liberated and would like to see a return to normality and those who are not vaccinated are still subject to social distancing ‘rules’.

How will this be done? In his speech elwood references Internationally recogmised papers are be to be issued to be for international travel – no vaccine no travel, The lessons of track and trace must also be learned to ensure this ‘transition phase controlled he says. The armed forces, he srgues are up to the task of logistics suggests is equal to the task of ‘Dunkirk’.

Elwood speech here:

That is how parliament see this ‘covid crisis’ ending. Troops on the street issuiing recording and tracking movements to ensure no one oversteps social distancing rules who has not been ‘dipped’.

Quite startling when you take time to understand the implications for everybody.

158564 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Basics, 6, #36 of 2160 🔗

Though the pragmatists among us – desperate for normality – might just go ahead and take the vaccine anyway to end the nightmare. See my post above re. vaccines too.

158636 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to jhfreedom, 40, #37 of 2160 🔗

And begin two other nightmares. The first, the recovery from the potential damage done to your body by the vaccine. The second, the new order in which we are now subject to health surveillance and our freedom is subject to being classified “not a health threat to others” for simply being alive.

The wagons to Auschwitz were loaded with pragmatists.

158646 ▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to stewart, 24, #38 of 2160 🔗

Unfortunately vaccine damage is usually permanent.

158673 ▶▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to stewart, 52, #39 of 2160 🔗

Yeap…like my grandmother who survived it. She does not give a shit about lockdowns, nobody tells a 93 year old woman with a tattoo on her arm about sheltering. She is an inspiration, but unfortunately she is the only one in the family who has not bought into the government hysteria.

158837 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Thomas_E, 5, #40 of 2160 🔗

It’s quality not quantity that counts, Thomas. 🙂

158674 ▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to stewart, 20, #41 of 2160 🔗

On your latter point people are often asked why more Jews did not leave Germany when the Nazis came to power. The answer was that historically there were expulsions or restrictions but never systematic mass murder. They just didn’t believe it could happen.

159215 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to jhfreedom, 10, #42 of 2160 🔗

I really do believe that mass murder is being planned. Indeed Bill Gates has boasted about it in the past. It’s been obvious from day one of this 99% fake pandemic that it has always been about the vaccines.

Gates doesn’t need the money, but he’s a lifelong eugenicist who believes massive depopulation is the fix for global warming. A very dangerous combination and our crazed government is so stuffed full of Gates’s money, that it is going along for the ride. We are obviously in very deep trouble.

159813 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Rowan, 5, #43 of 2160 🔗

I fear you are right. I have been mentally prepared for the balloon to go up but I don’t think I really expected it to happen. I hoped that I WAS a conspiracy theorist – rather that, than be right. I fear that too many are still not awake or don’t want to be awake as they can’t process what’s happening. When it’s your own family what can you do?

160365 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Lili, 2, #44 of 2160 🔗

Well at least your inner warning system was working well. The main problem, as you point out, is that the great bulk of the masses are still soundly asleep and once they are vaccinated there is no way back for any of us. It is now or never.

158761 ▶▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to stewart, 6, #45 of 2160 🔗

Gattaca was probably one of the most frightening movies of all time.

159386 ▶▶▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to PoshPanic, 6, #46 of 2160 🔗

I don’t think I’ll watch it. This present scenario is frightening enough – because it’s real.

158677 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to jhfreedom, 14, #47 of 2160 🔗

All the indications are that the vaccine will not provide permanent protection so you will need to get your “top-up” maybe every six months or year.

158708 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Chicot, 17, #48 of 2160 🔗

Just like Monsanto wheat which does not reproduce itself so farmers have buy it year after year

158737 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Chicot, 8, #49 of 2160 🔗

I think that will be its undoing. Something like 80% of those who have been given a vaccine on the trials have had bad reactions (basically like a severe flu). Some people would have that reaction, and seeing how common it is, think “I wouldn’t wish that on anyone else”, but I’m not confident that would be the majority view. However, few people would have that reaction and think “I’m perfectly happy to go through that again in six months.”

159025 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Andrew Fish, 3, #50 of 2160 🔗

Something like 80% of those who have been given a vaccine on the trials have had bad reactions (basically like a severe flu).

You know this for a fact?

159113 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #51 of 2160 🔗

I’ve seen it reported in the newspapers (Telegraph, if I recall). Obviously if there’s evidence to suggest that’s incorrect, then I’m open to it.

159207 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Andrew Fish, -4, #52 of 2160 🔗

I suggest that if you make the claim, the onus is on you to provide evidence for it, not the rest of us to provide evidence against it.

A brief scan of the Telegraph online showed four stories from September about the trials, none confirming your claim.

By the way, did you mean “adverse effect”? That’s a technical term covering any sort of reaction, not necessarily serious and not necessarily related to the trial.

159217 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #53 of 2160 🔗

The Moderna one did, in early studies, cause a flu-like reaction in around 80% of participants IIRC

159557 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Sophie123, 1, #54 of 2160 🔗

Statnews reported

In the 45-person Moderna study, four participants experienced what are known as “Grade 3” adverse events — side effects that are severe or medically significant but not immediately life-threatening. Neither the company nor the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, which is running the trial, have previously detailed the nature of those incidents, but Moderna did disclose that three, likely including Haydon, received the highest dose of the vaccine that was tested, and had reactions that involved their whole bodies. A fourth received a lower dose and had a rash at the injection site.

4 out of 45 is not “80%”. Would you care to reveal your sources?

160387 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #55 of 2160 🔗

You would have to be out of your mind to believe anything coming out of Moderna or any other vaccine company. And why on earth would anyone risk even a 9% chance of short term injury for an infection that is on a par with the common cold. Very importantly the longer term vaccine damage will only start to come to light once mass vaccination is well underway.

159815 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Richard Pinch, 5, #56 of 2160 🔗

You seem constantly very keen to divert from the fundamental questions – in this case, the issue of blatantly inadequate testing of new vaccines as is being proposed by a government up to its neck in dodgy relationships with the industry that produces them.

159823 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to RickH, 3, #57 of 2160 🔗

… and the fundamental question of why a vaccine is needed (at massive public expense, sight unseen) in the first place for a viral agent that isn’t of ‘high consequence’.

159932 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to RickH, -5, #58 of 2160 🔗

We have vaccines against quite a number of the diseases that aren’t on the High consequence infectious diseases list . Was that a mistake?
As I’m sure you know, the HCID list includes diseases such as Ebola and the Black Death. Saying Covid is less serious than the Black Death isn’t much of an argument for anything.

160402 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #59 of 2160 🔗

Vaccines are generally a mistake and most people would do well to avoid them. Vaccines are never ever tested against a true placebo and most of the evidence that says they work, is little more than sleight of hand. Now most Big Pharma trolls know that already, don’t they?

160644 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Rowan, #60 of 2160 🔗

There’s a difference between “control” and “placebo”. The control is the known alternative. A placebo is a control known to have no effects, such as saline.

My understanding is that in a double blind experiment neither the doctor nor the subject is supposed to know which treatment is being given. The argument is that using a placebo would risk unblinding the trials precisely because vaccination does produce, usually quite harmless, effects such as soreness or reddening around the injection site, stiffness and malaise. If the subject or doctor knows that they have had the real vaccination, as opposed to the harmless placebo, as a result of such a trivial but distinctive reaction, it could change their willingness to report possible reactions, and prejudice the result of the trial. So the control is a known vaccine which does occasionally also produce these effects.

Caveat lector: I am neither a doctor nor a medical researcher, and this is a purely second-hand lay explanation.

I may say that proponents of vaccination are often unwilling to even talk about these reactions, even though they are almost always trivial. This is probably because they are afraid, with some justification, that any admission that vaccination can any sort of side-effect whatsoever will be seized on by opponents of vaccination as some sort of admission. We see this, for example, in the much-publicised misquotation of a report which gives the rate of “possible reactions” to a certain vaccines as 1 in 40. This was deliberately misrepresented as the rate of “vaccine injury”, a much more severe, and fortunately very much more rare, class of side-effect.

However dishonest the opponents of vaccination can be in their arguments, I still think it important that proponents of vaccination give, and continue to maintain, a clear and “grown-up” line on exactly that the risks are. They are not zero, and it is a fair question to ask whether parents, say, should accept a risk of the order of one in a million of serious damage to their children for the good not only of themselves but the public at large. That’s a fair question and deserves a well-thought-out answer.

As far as this specific point is concerned, the Lancet paper (DOI 10.1016/S0140-6736(20)31604-4) says that the Oxford trial used

a meningococcal conjugate vaccine (MenACWY) as control

not a placebo. There’s a trial described at medrxiv DOI 10.1101/2020.06.30.20142570 describing the control as a placebo

The placebo was a sterile saline solution for injection (0.9% sodium chloride injection, in a 0.5-mL dose).

So this certainly refutes the assertion that no vaccine trials ever use a placebo.

160391 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to RickH, 1, #61 of 2160 🔗

The vaccine is a vital part of Bill Gate’s plans for massive global depopulation. That of course is the real reason it is being foisted upon an unsuspecting and woefully ignorant public. But I guess you knew that already.

159913 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to RickH, -1, #62 of 2160 🔗

I’m keen to have people make assertions that they are able to support.

If you want to make a case against any new vaccine being inadequately testing, then your case will be much more powerful if it is supported by accurate and authoritative information, rather than exaggerated, misinformed or plainly untrue third-hand gossip that will be seized on by your opponents to your discredit.

Your choice.

159546 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Cheezilla, #64 of 2160 🔗

That’s a story about one participant having an adverse reaction: transverse myelitis. In fact I believe there may have been a second one as well. And those need to be investigated, clearly. But the claim was “ Something like 80% of those who have been given a vaccine on the trials have had bad reactions”

159941 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #65 of 2160 🔗

I definitely read a couple of weeks ago that a good portion of candidates experienced flu like symptoms such as fever, fatigue, bodyaches etc. It was roughly the time of that one particular person being very sick. This is just a site for exchange of thoughts and opinions, not a medical conference, so chill.
Well, the chuckle brothers are supposed to be scientists and they are not too hot on backing their assertions with unbiased scientific fact.

159955 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Nsklent, -1, #66 of 2160 🔗

You will have read a lot of stories in the press recently. Yet quite a lot of those stories are under fervent, critical and sometimes quite un-chilled discussion here in these columns.

160408 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #67 of 2160 🔗

You work for big Pharma?

160646 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Rowan, #68 of 2160 🔗


160242 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kevin, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #69 of 2160 🔗

Transverse myelitis has an incidence of 2/1,000,000 population. Oxford/AstraZen have had 2/1000. Chance you could say but there’s a reason we haven’t used adenovirus vector vaccines before.

160289 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Kevin, -3, #70 of 2160 🔗

I’m not saying “chance” or indeed anything else — I don’t claim to know the details. Some reports suggest that the first subject already had undiagnosed MS.

160405 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #71 of 2160 🔗

Change the record. No one can believe a word that comes out of vaccine trials.

159306 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Andrew Fish, 4, #72 of 2160 🔗

The Oxford vaccine (probably the one they will try and give us) caused a “mild” reaction in about 50% or so and “moderate” in about 20%.

It was certainly worse than most vaccines however and I think you’re right that probably will put many people off having it more than once.

For the Oxford one they used the maximum dose from the MERS trials for a similar vaccine. The Russian Gamelaya vaccine is very similar and they’re using double the dose again of the Oxford one. They’re all rather big doses because they don’t work that well and this is what leads to the reactions.

Ad26.Cov2.S however may turn out to be a lot better. Instead of encoding the regular spike this encodes a “prefusion stabilized” one– i.e. that’s sort of locked into the “open” state. It’s a much more effective antigen so you probably don’t need such a big dose. I think the human trials for this are only just starting.


159433 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to guy153, 7, #73 of 2160 🔗

Given that most people don’t get a reaction at all from the virus, it doesn’t really stack up, does it?

159552 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to guy153, #74 of 2160 🔗

The Oxford vaccine (probably the one they will try and give us) caused a “mild” reaction in about 50% or so and “moderate” in about 20%.

Again, what is the source of your information?

In passing I note we’re down from 80% to 70%.

160411 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #75 of 2160 🔗

Big Pharma shill at work.

160648 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Rowan, #76 of 2160 🔗

Again, no.

160649 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to guy153, #78 of 2160 🔗

Thanks for that! I note “ There were no serious adverse events related to ChAdOx1 nCoV-19. “

160792 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Richard Pinch, #79 of 2160 🔗

Yes– if there had been that would have been very concerning. But this is only 500 people. There probably will be some rate of serious adverse events if it’s used on hundreds of thousands or millions. This is normally considered acceptable for a vaccine but vaccines aren’t usually developed and promoted so aggressively for what turned out to be relatively mild viruses.

At least as big a worry as the adverse events is the problem of disease enhancement. All the SARS1 vaccine attempts did this in monkeys, as did most of the MERS ones, and these are the closest relatives of SARS2.

None of the SARS2 vaccines showed this problem in monkeys. But since the exact cause of it was never understood you can’t necessarily extrapolate from a monkey who was challenged a few weeks after getting the vaccine to an elderly human with an already rather second-hand immune system getting challenged maybe several months after the vaccine. This is why I would recommend most people to wait a couple of years at least to see what happens.

Just to be clear, the risk from the vaccine is low. But so is the risk from the disease. The risk from the disease however is now very well known as it has been “tested” on billions of people and we can look at the data. The risk from the vaccine is much more uncertain. It is therefore rational to wait a bit. But it’s a personal choice and everyone should make their own decision whether to be vaccinated or not having had the facts explained to them.

I’m very hopeful that Ad26.Cov2.S will turn out to work really well and the positive to take from this is that 10 years or so from now when SARS3 comes along, which may turn out to be worse, we will have a major head-start with vaccine technology.

160351 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to guy153, 2, #80 of 2160 🔗

Thanks, Guy – but this didn’t help:
‘…The Phase 3 trial is being conducted in collaboration with Operation Warp Speed (link is external)
(OWS), a multi-agency collaboration overseen by HHS and the Department of Defense…’

158740 ▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Chicot, 8, #81 of 2160 🔗

the vaccine that just keeps on giving to the pharma industry!!!

160452 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Sue, 1, #82 of 2160 🔗

Many vaccines are problematic, but Covid-19 vaccines will be genocidal and purposely so.

160457 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Chicot, 2, #83 of 2160 🔗

They will not provide any protection and are not intended to do so.

160650 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Rowan, #84 of 2160 🔗

Do you have evidence for this, or are we expected to take your word for it?

158845 ▶▶▶ jakehadlee, replying to jhfreedom, 37, #85 of 2160 🔗

I am anything but an anti-vaxer, bang up to date with all of mine plus all the jabs I need for regular trips to India.

But I am not touching any Covid vaccine with a bargepole. A rushed-through, panic-and-profit-driven new drug that might, possibly, stop me getting a minor illness that I’ve probably already had and then again might also have unknown long-term side-effect? F*** that s***

158977 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to jakehadlee, 10, #86 of 2160 🔗

Totally agree. When I go to tropical climes I get the jabs, because the things you’re being protected from are actually dangerous and the medications are well-tested. I don’t bother with the flu vaccine because I seem to be naturally resistant (I think I’ve had flu once in my life and that was when I was poorer and my diet suffered as a result). I certainly won’t be getting this one. If people want to volunteer for it (and I know people who are totally convinced they should) then fine, but on their own heads be it. Two people in the trials of the Oxford vaccine have already had neurological side-effects (although they’ve tried to sweep one of them under the carpet) and 80% have had bad reactions. Another case of the cure being worse than the disease.

159053 ▶▶▶▶▶ PaulH, replying to Andrew Fish, 10, #87 of 2160 🔗

Exactly. When you travel to the tropics, you are dealing with serious diseases and proven vaccines.

Tetanus is a very good example of why you get vaccinated.

159842 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to PaulH, 2, #88 of 2160 🔗

… and remember, vaccines apart, some established prophylactic measures for such well-understood diseases are far from risk free.

160414 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to RickH, 1, #89 of 2160 🔗

Which measures are you referring to?

159397 ▶▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to jakehadlee, 2, #90 of 2160 🔗

Trouble is, if you want to go on travelling to India, you may have no choice.
There’s a petition: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/323442
But looking at the patronising reply from the government at 100,000 signatures, I wouldn’t hold out much hope.

159828 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to jakehadlee, 7, #91 of 2160 🔗

But I am not touching any Covid vaccine with a bargepole”

A sane response given the inadequate/suspicious process that surrounds its production.

159020 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to jhfreedom, 8, #92 of 2160 🔗

The two women from Save Our Rights UK I spoke to yesterday were very vocal about their concerns about a vaccine that’s rushed and not properly tested. Bet they would be smeared as anti-vaxxers but far from it, they were very informative and emphasised that despite vaccines against flu people still get it.

159402 ▶▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #93 of 2160 🔗

‘They’ will find ways of making you accept it. Look at the petition:
then read the government’s reply at 100,000 signatures. They’ll have us over a barrel if we want any kind of normal life.

160418 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Banjones, 2, #94 of 2160 🔗

These vaccines will not be compatible with normal life, that is their real purpose.

159951 ▶▶▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #95 of 2160 🔗

On Mondays UK column, the military is not vaccinated troops with the flu vaccine as it is effective.

159043 ▶▶▶ PaulH, replying to jhfreedom, 11, #96 of 2160 🔗

Please don’t imagine it will be just one jab then back to normal.

Once you accept the jab, you will then be locked into an endless schedule of jabs and boosters, all tied into your biometric health passport.

You will be forced to accept whatever they pump into your body. Let anything go out of date and your passport will turn red with no travel, work or socialising.

It won’t be the end of the nightmare – just the beginning. And if it makes you ill or cripples you, you won’t be able to sue anyone – just get a tiny payoff from the taxpayer.

So think carefully…

159406 ▶▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to PaulH, 2, #97 of 2160 🔗
159818 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Banjones, 5, #98 of 2160 🔗

And so will we.

160436 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to PaulH, 3, #99 of 2160 🔗

A tiny payment, only if you are able to fight for years in a vaccine court. Most of those vaccinated for Covid-19 will not last that long, or will be too ill to fight the stifling bureaucracy.

It’s been very clear almost from day one, that this fake pandemic has been all about the coming vaccines. Behind virtually all of the them you will find the fingerprints and big money of eugenicist and global depopulationist Bill Gates.

This is the pandemic scenario that Bill, and some others have been planning for decades. It is their once in a lifetime opportunity and they are certainly not going to waste it. They have to be stopped.

159760 ▶▶▶ Lili, replying to jhfreedom, 5, #100 of 2160 🔗

I will not be taking a rushed vaccine. The whole thing is insane for a virus with such a low death rate – lower than flu!

160444 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Lili, 1, #101 of 2160 🔗

It is criminally insane and the vaccines will be purposely harmful. We are in the way and are to be culled.

158565 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Basics, 14, #102 of 2160 🔗

Shockingly evil – a good one to send to waverers who think this will be over soon and things will be back to normal

158620 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Julian, 32, #103 of 2160 🔗

Yes, the regime is courting disaster now. Bojo’s strategy of digging through to Australia to save face is failing. I don’t know exactly what mechanism will bring the regime down, and I accept that they have all the usual political means of bringing about change locked down, as it were.

But I am sure they have gone too far to save face, too far to keep their dignity intact. This ends in total humiliating defeat for the lockdownistas. I don’t think revolution, but I do think those who survive politically will be those who manage to distance themselves from the shit show, are able to purge themselves of complicity.

As the regime thrashes about, as it now is, it aims to save itself by spreading complicity. Vice-chancellors have been caught in that net, and they look scared. They know they are being put on the wrong side, very publicly, just as the regime’s narrative is crumbling.

What finally tips it? Don’t know, but the reelection of Trump might be the catalyst.

158630 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Ovis, 7, #104 of 2160 🔗

Good assessment imo

158669 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Ovis, 5, #105 of 2160 🔗

It might shut the bullshitters up as well.

158872 ▶▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to Ovis, 6, #106 of 2160 🔗

I really hope you’re right, but all I see happening right now is people doubling down.

159064 ▶▶▶▶ PaulH, replying to Ovis, 7, #107 of 2160 🔗

Hope you are right, but I just see more fear on the streets, more muzzles and a regime that is going more extreme by the day, with considerable public support.

160473 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to PaulH, 2, #108 of 2160 🔗

Yes. the trouble is all coming from our very corrupt government. Johnson, Hancock, Whitty and Vallance are all in Bill Gates’s very deep pockets and together they are waging a brutal war on the British public. Their new weapons will be the genocidal Covid-19 vaccines, that are heading our way. Meanwhile, the great bulk of the UK public slumbers on completely unaware, truly amazing.

158667 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Julian, #109 of 2160 🔗

It probably will be over soon. But why am I bothering to respond to this bullshit?

158623 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Basics, 4, #110 of 2160 🔗

I would really like to post about this but it just turns people away as it is so unbelievable that anyone could be advocating anything so evil. Have we entered the plot in a 007 movie????

158701 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, 5, #111 of 2160 🔗

Does the twat have a view on those who have immunity by virtue of having had the Covid?

159464 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to karenovirus, 2, #112 of 2160 🔗

Remember, this isn’t about a virus!.

158774 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Basics, 9, #113 of 2160 🔗

It’s all very sinister but Elwood is a victim of his own delusions. The Army doesn’t have the personnel. They will have to drag the prisons for “the scum of the earth” (as they did with the Black and Tans). And with no functioning economy, how are they going to pay? It’s not just money – money doesn’t matter if it buys no goods and services.

159076 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Londo Mollari, 8, #114 of 2160 🔗

Yes, they got the Black & Tans, and they’ll get the bio-security forces. If you bother to look at current commercial TV you’ll find it swamped with adverts for military recruitment. Elwood is no victim of delusion, he’s a powerful operator for the spooks and is predicting a likely scenario.
In September 2018, Ellwood announced that he had been promoted to the rank of Lieutenant Colonel as a reservist in the 77th Brigade

158831 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, 15, #115 of 2160 🔗

That is how parliament see this ‘covid crisis’ ending.

Not so much parliament, just one twat. Trying to shape the narrative. Should be court-martialled.

158847 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to Basics, 10, #116 of 2160 🔗

As government policy jumps shark after shark, their position does weaken somewhat. For a long time they were invulnerable because lockdown had been demanded by the institutional media and Labour, so there were few voices that could be raised to criticise it. But now a clear gap is developing between the government and at least parts of the media and visible public opinion, and that gap allows many ex-lockdownistas to save face. ‘Yes,’ they can say, ‘I was suckered in for a while, but I never went the full Ellwood.’ Cracks in the monolith.

159030 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Ovis, 20, #117 of 2160 🔗

And of course the cracks widen as even the lockdownistas are finding that they can’t get appointments for even the most basic of check ups, being made redundant or their child is trapped in their university hall of residence will start wondering what all this was for.

“I locked down, clapped for the NHS, observed social distancing, wore a mask and yet I’ve lost my job/pension, etc. Come to think of it I don’t know of anyone who has had it much less died of it but I know someone who has died of cancer/committed suicide, etc….”

158863 ▶▶ Jo, replying to Basics, 25, #118 of 2160 🔗

I watched that yesterday. It was totally chilling. I have been in a state every since. Apart from the idea of using the military – why can’t people just go to their GP? – and the obvious threat to the freedom of those of us who do not want forced medical interventions – if/when the vaccine is rolled out (unlicensed, potentially and with no liability to the manufacturers) – the reality of these types of vaccine is that the efficacy is weak. In March I trawled through the scientific papers on the efficacy and as an example, H1N1 (which I had in 2009) showed a varying efficacy each year of 39-49%. And that is actually quite good. If you want a vaccine, the low rate of efficacy does not discount its usefulness – it’s just another tool in the box. But tacitly to assume it’s 100% effective by differentiating between those who’ve had the vaccine and those who haven’t is utter lunacy. Just punishing those like me who don’t want the thing. I totally respect those of you who do want it – it’s just my history of medical interventions has led me to avoid them at almost any cost so I don’t want a vaccine for a disease which is hardly likely to harm me to any great extent. I want to make my own risk assessments.

158889 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Jo, 12, #119 of 2160 🔗

Same here; having experienced horrendous side effects over the years, I always do my own research and make up my own mind.

Weigh up the risks,take responsibility and decide accordingly as an autonomous being.

The crucial importance of informed consent seems to have been conveniently overlooked in the Covid stampede, but it should be an essential criterion in any medical procedure.

159085 ▶▶▶ PaulH, replying to Jo, 6, #120 of 2160 🔗

Yes, this is horrific. I felt much the same – it is orders of magnitude worse than any danger from CV-19.

And good luck to everyone suing the army when you get some auto-immune disease from their jab.

158877 ▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Basics, 4, #121 of 2160 🔗

But wouldn’t this mean that the military would all have had to have had the vaccine first?

158982 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Basics, 21, #122 of 2160 🔗

Elwood is scum isn’t he.
He has got almost everything wrong:
There is no vaccine yet an unkikely to be one.
Community immunity is fast approaching to nake ot all unnecessary.
Track n trace doesn’t work
PCR testing doesn’t work
Masks don’t work.
Armed forces do not have the numbers and have other things to do.
Anti social distancing irrelevant- see Sweden & Denmark.
Prophylactics and/or cures for early cases already exist

He has got the wrong end of the stick on every issue and is living in fantasy land.

159035 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nessimmersion, 11, #123 of 2160 🔗

When this shit show ends, he should be sent to the Tower for treason. Trying to set the Armed Forces against the people is despicable.

159784 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Nessimmersion, 2, #124 of 2160 🔗

Did you clock that he was making a job application? The creep.

159089 ▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Basics, 10, #125 of 2160 🔗

This is a dictatorship. Not that I was in any doubt but this vision is terrifying.

159380 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to Basics, 4, #126 of 2160 🔗

There is a petition: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/323442

But the government’s reply (after 100,000 signatures) – I think we could agree – is nothing but patronising tosh. In other words: ”Tough, you plebs. We’re in charge. Now, wind your necks in….”

159405 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 2, #127 of 2160 🔗

Saw it last night. Terrifying.

159677 ▶▶ JamesDrebin, replying to Basics, 3, #129 of 2160 🔗

Tobias would appear to be an enemy of the British people, as do all of those who accept work in the 77th and their psychological warafare against you, me, and the people we love. Utter, utter evil.

And the clear endgame of forced vaccination just keeps evoking the same sinister feeling of one particular quote from the Lord of the Rings series, which I paraphrase thus:

One vaccine to rule them all, One passport app to find them, One social credit system to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them “.

159744 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Basics, 3, #130 of 2160 🔗

I would hope the armed forces will overthrow this lot if asked to do any of that.

159753 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Lili, 3, #131 of 2160 🔗

Uh??? They’re complicit in this – ref ‘Elwood’; 77th Brigade; ‘supporting the civil power’ etc. !

160198 ▶▶ H K, replying to Basics, 4, #132 of 2160 🔗

Seems like the conspiracy theorists were right on this one!
Digital health passports and regular vaccines (this will be next) that will be linked to the health app were ultimately the end goal – welcome to the bio-security era!

People still dismiss the conspiracy theories outright without actually looking deeper into them! Sure you don’t have believe in all theories, but look at the evidence on a case by case basis!
This is leading to the ‘Social credit system’ that’s in China!

160231 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to H K, 1, #133 of 2160 🔗

It is understandable that some people have weaved conspiracy theories to try to explain the current moment, insisting that dastardly figures like Bill Gates, Big Pharma and of course wicked governments are busily plotting the overthrow of human liberty on the back of a cooked-up virus crisis. After all, things are confusing. Extraordinary events have unfolded with very little clarity or explanation. In such circumstances people will create stories to try to make sense of the sudden diminution of their freedom and their lives. And yet, this conspiratorial bent among anti-lockdown protesters is a very serious problem. It ends up giving rise to a competition of narratives of powerlessness.

So on one side, we have officialdom’s lockdown myopia which disempowers communities by exaggerating the threat of COVID-19 and downplaying our capacity for dealing with risk and uncertainty. And on the other side we have a pushback against officialdom that says dark, evil forces beyond our control are puppeteering this crisis in order to achieve their malevolent ends. In both scenarios, the public is reduced to spectators. Spectators either to the fearful crisis-management of government officials and experts who insist we must follow the rules if we want to survive, or to an evil conspiracy of the usual suspects that we can hate and rage against but not really do much about. In both situations, the capacity of individuals and communities to understand this crisis and to start taking action to alleviate it, or live with it, are diminished. We need a better opposition.

Brendan O’Neill

158558 Now More Than Ever, replying to Now More Than Ever, 24, #134 of 2160 🔗

This deserves wider reportage. The figure of 71 deaths yesterday included 24 that were from earlier days not yet included in the overall figures. Julia Hartley-Brewer’s Twitter has more on this.

158574 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Now More Than Ever, 14, #135 of 2160 🔗

The Gov stats of 68 deaths in England does not correlate with the NHS figure which is 44, and of which only 6 were on the 28th. There was also 3 without a positive test so really only 41 deaths.

158597 ▶▶▶ wayno, replying to JohnB, 8, #136 of 2160 🔗

I get that frustration every time i try and correlate the data, i have stopped now, even when you add the care home it never adds up.

158559 Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #137 of 2160 🔗

Today must be the day when Sunak reveals the £10k for each home to green it up. We had the sparkler of the 50% free burgers in August so now we expect (he said September) details of the scheme, the word is it is going to be a bland press release.

158590 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Charlie Blue, 2, #139 of 2160 🔗

Hey hey hey! Just in the nick of time! We can rely on our government! Thank you Charlie!

158593 ▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Basics, 11, #140 of 2160 🔗

Yes, what a relief. All the people who can no longer pay their rent or mortgage will be over the moon.

158601 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Charlie Blue, 8, #141 of 2160 🔗

Isn’t just fabulous. Nothing like a last minute press release to save somebodies neck.

“Chancellor Rishi Sunak said: ‘We promised to support jobs and protect the environment – and the Green Homes Grant delivers on this.”

It’s also a good way of telling landlords you need to shell out multiple thousands over the next eight years or face losing your renting capability. EPC Band C by 2028, or no licence will be given.

159013 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, 2, #142 of 2160 🔗

Much good that will do his erstwhile tenants.

158629 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Charlie Blue, 7, #143 of 2160 🔗

Where I live it is only a slight exaggeration to say the houses fall into two categories: those undergoing expensive building work, and those up for sale by auction. Those with money are spaffing it, while on the same street others go bankrupt. My guess is that many of those expensively renovated houses will be up for auction soon.

158605 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Basics, 8, #145 of 2160 🔗

after spaffing billions from the great money tree on pointless covid related initiatives, now is the time to spaff more billions on pointless green initiatives . and support all these new green jobs (mostly in china)

given the way the economy is going belly up, the only insulation most people will need is an extra couple of layers of newspaper under the coat to keep warm. I understand the guardian is very good as it is green and full of hot air

158818 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to mjr, 13, #146 of 2160 🔗

It’s all part of the UN 2030 agenda – eliminate carbon fuels and go green; get rid of cars/car ownership; reduce travel hence why the government are not helping the travel industry and the mandatory vaccines to make it inconvenient; increase control mechanisms (track n trace, surveillance), cashless society, people stuck at home for majority of time with only a computer for company – sounds fun hey!??

158940 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sue, 7, #147 of 2160 🔗

Nah, it’s just a cock-up by incompetent buffoons. Worldwide. Not planned openly in detail at all. 🙂

There are parallels between getting covidphobes to acknowledge the virus isn’t a big deal, and getting resetphobes to accept the bigger picture about what is currently being effected. A global reset is more ‘frightening’, that’s for sure. Examine your motivations, cock-up believers, time is getting shorter.

160684 ▶▶▶ helen, replying to mjr, #148 of 2160 🔗


158750 ▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Basics, 4, #149 of 2160 🔗

They are absolutely busting a gut to have every household in the country in thrall to them one way or another. Their view is that taking the government’s shilling makes you more biddable.

159010 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, 3, #150 of 2160 🔗

There was something about loft insulation on R4 news, I remember dad boring on about getting a Council grant for that back in the 70s.

158560 Recusant, replying to Recusant, -26, #151 of 2160 🔗

I think that you are reading that graph of hospitalisations in Madrid all wrong. The clear takeaway is that if cases double every seven days, by the end of October there will be 48,000 hospitalisations a day, with possibly millions of deaths. That’s not a prediction, it’s a fact.

Why do you hate Spanish people so much, you racist?

158569 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Recusant, 3, #152 of 2160 🔗

It’s an oft made mistake in Scottish politics. People of another European, nay, ‘western’ nation are considered en mass to be of the same race. That is not to say there are no other races within Spain and Great Britain. Spanish are considered to be of the same race as British. Scottish the same race as Welsh and English. Caucasian. I believe it is a labelling to do with where our shared ancestors are said to have come from, a region around the Black Sea.

158598 ▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Recusant, 10, #153 of 2160 🔗



158625 ▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to NonCompliant, -5, #154 of 2160 🔗

I’m not 77th, I’m just a concerned Chief Medical Expert who wants to tell you not to believe your own eyes.

158655 ▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Recusant, 3, #155 of 2160 🔗

What kind of Chief Medical Expert?
Why shouldn’t people believe their own eyes?

158656 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Recusant, 3, #156 of 2160 🔗

Sorry, I am not very bright. Not sure what point is being made or debated here…

158749 ▶▶▶▶ Ed Turnbull, replying to Recusant, 12, #157 of 2160 🔗

Nice one, very much in the spirit of the legend that is Titania McGrath. Though I fear, from some of the replies, your subtle sarcasm has been missed.

158760 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Recusant, 3, #158 of 2160 🔗

Looking at what passes for intelligent expertise in public circles nowadays I wouldn’t admit you are part of the incompetent idiots bought and paid for by Bill Gates Club – I’d keep quiet.

158869 ▶▶▶▶ jakehadlee, replying to Recusant, 3, #159 of 2160 🔗

Is a Chief Medical Expert higher or lower than a Top Medical Expert?

158943 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to NonCompliant, 1, #160 of 2160 🔗

Irony, surely ?

158651 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Recusant, 7, #161 of 2160 🔗

Maybe they have a vacancy on SAGE for you?

158683 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Recusant, 10, #162 of 2160 🔗

I love the smell of sarcasm in the morning.

158705 ▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to Nick Rose, 7, #163 of 2160 🔗

Love is not allowed, only fear.

158695 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Recusant, 8, #164 of 2160 🔗

if cases double every seven days, by the end of October there will be 48,000 hospitalisations a day, with possibly millions of deaths. That’s not a prediction, it’s a fact.

That’s hilarious. A prediction is not a prediction. It’s a fact.

158787 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to stewart, 1, #165 of 2160 🔗

If it’s something in the future, it’s a guess. If not made up.

158800 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to stewart, 5, #166 of 2160 🔗

Well, that’s rather the problem. The statement “If cases … then there will be …” is a fact, but a fact of arithmetic, not a fact about the real world.

If you have two apples, and I give you two apples, then you have four apples” is a fact of arithmetic, more succinctly expressed as 2+2=4. It says nothing about whether I have two apples, or whether you have two apples — which might be facts about the world — or whether I will give you those apples — which is a prediction — or whether I should give you my apples or whether having four apples will be good for you — which are value judgements — or whether the government should force you to stay at home to prevent my giving you those apples — which is politics.

158743 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Recusant, 3, #167 of 2160 🔗


On reflection, those two letters pretty much sum up everything about government policy.

158776 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Cicatriz, 3, #168 of 2160 🔗


159137 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Recusant, 2, #169 of 2160 🔗

LOL! Judging from the down-votes, my reading of your comment as amusing and rather biting sarcasm is not the way many here read it…

159184 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Recusant, 3, #170 of 2160 🔗

I apologise for everyone’s downvotes, I am 99% certain this is subtle satire sadly missed by a few who rightly wish to defend the correct view that the doubling talk is nonsense.

…unless you actually believe that, in which case what a terrible life you must have.

159254 ▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to Youth_Unheard, 7, #171 of 2160 🔗

Everyone who downvoted will have the army deployed against them. Under Standing Order 7 (1984 Public Health Act) it is illegal to downvote a Chief Top Medical Expert. It’s for your own good.

158562 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 13, #172 of 2160 🔗

Radio 4 Today Programme
Martha asked the Business Secretary what the new rules are, he was reduced to telling people to go to the website. She did not hide her disdain.

158573 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to karenovirus, 1, #173 of 2160 🔗

Didn’t he compere her question to something off a quiz show?

158666 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #174 of 2160 🔗

Was in response to Martha saying something like “you ought to know (the tiles), this isn’t a quiz show”.

158758 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to karenovirus, 1, #175 of 2160 🔗


158566 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 27, #176 of 2160 🔗

Reflecting on AngloWelshDragon’s post last night concerning her husband’s run in with a masked Karenb and my own two run ins makes me wonder, it seems to be the women doing the shaming and “policing” regarding muzzles. Why? If anything this confirms to me that all the blathering about sisterhood, female solidarity and women supporting other women are all lies. And I say this as a woman.

158572 ▶▶ Sally, replying to Bart Simpson, 17, #177 of 2160 🔗

Hear, hear. Spoken also as a woman.

158575 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Sally, 14, #178 of 2160 🔗

Ditto, ditto, ditto.

158578 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to annie, 16, #179 of 2160 🔗

Today i have decided to identify as a woman … well at least until i go to the barbers and have my beard trimmed.
So yes , I agree and i say this as a woman

158584 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to mjr, 1, #180 of 2160 🔗

🤣 🤣 🤣

158585 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to mjr, 3, #181 of 2160 🔗

Nice have a lovely ladylike morning, back to man this avro? Just so I get my pronouns out correctly if needed..

158602 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Basics, 3, #182 of 2160 🔗

just use “they” rather than he or she…. Like that singer Sam Smith wants everyone to do

159126 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to mjr, 3, #183 of 2160 🔗

“They” is plural as far as I’m concerned. The options are he, she or it, and as far as I’m concerned if there is doubt and the person in question won’t accept “he or she”, then “it”, it is.

As is longstanding practice in English, if “he or she” is too long then the appropriate shorthand is “he”.

158588 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to mjr, 3, #184 of 2160 🔗

😁 😀 🤣

158664 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to mjr, 3, #185 of 2160 🔗

Spoken like a man.

158790 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ed Turnbull, replying to mjr, 7, #186 of 2160 🔗

Women can have beards, and all the other appurtenances of ‘men’. It is the current year after all. Don’t you recall Jonathan – sorry Jessica – Yaniv in Canada, who tried to take court action against several beauticians who refused to wax his – sorry her – hairy ladyplums? He – sorry she – failed of course. Canada still had a vestige of sanity at that point.

Anyway, in this age of self-identification, I am, today, identifying as Great Cthulhu. (<sigh> If only I really was that ancient entity I could send some Star Spawn or Deep Ones to Westminster to smite the Bullingdon Buffoon and his malevolent crew, who are, after all, far nastier than me or any other critter from the Lovecraftian bestiary).

159336 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Ed Turnbull, 3, #187 of 2160 🔗

Women can have beards

As, indeed, can French Presidents.

158580 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #188 of 2160 🔗

Interesting observation. There does feel to be a female demograph to those who freak out in self righteous command. SPI-b will have recorded the characteristics.

Keeping people safe is percieved to be a more feminine role? Caring for others? But is that where this strange complusion to unthinking shout and yell comes from?

158591 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Basics, 8, #189 of 2160 🔗

I think you’re right about safety being perceived to be a more feminine role as well as virtue signalling. I seem to notice that a lot of women tend to claim the moral high ground under the guise of being “caring” and being “concerned for others”

They forget what the Good Book has said – “judge not lest ye be judged”

158612 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Bart Simpson, 18, #190 of 2160 🔗

Reminds me of the joke from school, where Jesus confronts a crowd looking to stone a woman to death. “Let ye without sin cast the first stone”. The crowd stops, looks sullen. Suddenly a brick comes out of nowhere and clocks the poor woman on the head. Jesus whirls around:

“For God’s sake Mum I can’t take you anywhere”

158759 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to mhcp, 2, #191 of 2160 🔗

Hahahaha!!! That made me laugh!

159046 ▶▶▶ Mark H, replying to Basics, 4, #192 of 2160 🔗

Women are inherently more risk averse.

158583 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #193 of 2160 🔗

Men seem on the whole, to be far more relaxed ;I think you’re correct. The experience AngloWelshDragon’s husband endured was a disgrace: Range Rover Boden type female screams at him armoured with her superiority complex without considering the circumstances.

While she and her ilk are claiming possession of the moral high ground, essential workers like AWD’s husband are quietly keeping what remains of the UK ticking over.

From my many years working in hospitals, I can confirm that, by and large, men make for much better patients: invariably funny, reluctant to make a fuss and generally inclined to form easy bonds with their fellows.

However, to put this in perspective, I have been challenged-only once-by an officious bloke, and glared at by another.

But women are in general more panicky.

158600 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to wendyk, 11, #194 of 2160 🔗

Exactly. I did get asked by a man too but when I said I was exempt he apologised and backed off immediately. Plus he wasn’t rude about it.

However the women would ask in a menacing and threatening voice. Then when you say you’re exempt, they don’t back off and seem to be spoiling for a fight.

These Karens should really be careful because what happens if they confront the wrong person? They could get more than what they bargained for.

158662 ▶▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Bart Simpson, 14, #195 of 2160 🔗

Same here…I was challenged about wearing a mask in Nando’s. When I said I was exempt she said ”Ah, yeah? Got any proof?” in a very confrontational manner. When I said excuse me, she repeated it even more aggressive. When I then explained that she has no right to ask me, that I don’t need to produce any proof and that they can be fined for this her male manager than came over and apologized. It is a society where women know they will not be handled aggressively where a man knows from a very young age that a possibility of a smack or a fist is very real.

158764 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Thomas_E, 6, #196 of 2160 🔗

I think you’re right on that. Men know that there are aggressive consequences to their actions whilst women get off lightly or get treated with kid gloves.

158895 ▶▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to wendyk, 11, #197 of 2160 🔗

I went to a Tesco super store yesterday, and from what I observed I was the only un muzzled person in the whole store. I tend to look straight ahead and try and look fierce to scare off any potential zealots. I will say though that any dirty looks that I do notice tend to come from women. What is quite scary is my personality change, I almost want someone to challenge me so that I can vent some of my pent up anger!.

What I did like in this shop was that there was no one at the door asking if you wanted a mask. I have had this happen now at Sainsburys and Morrisons. Talking about Morrisons, has anyone seen their revolting most recent advert?.

159140 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Mrs issedoff, 1, #198 of 2160 🔗

Yes, we have. Its very creepy – literally creepy with everyone in slow motion. And the black underpants….

158587 ▶▶ Mike, replying to Bart Simpson, 10, #199 of 2160 🔗

I think it has always been this way…predominantly. And I really don’t mean to sound sexist in that statement. Often times women are their own worst enemy in terms of turning on their ‘sisters’. In terms of social pressures it is frequently the tool employed within female social groups to cajole and coerce group compliance.
Conversion to various religions is often achieved in the same manner, get the women on board and the men will follow.

158596 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Mike, 12, #200 of 2160 🔗

I think you’re right. A few years’ ago, I read Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s excellent autobiography and watched her being interviewed – she said as much using her own childhood as an example. It was the women in her family who forced her to undergo FGM and wear the hijab, her father and brothers stood back and did nothing.

And of course when she was highlighting the plight of immigrant women in the west, the feminist sisterhood were conspicuous in their silence.

158626 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Mike, 7, #201 of 2160 🔗

Men learn from a young age about the Line. The one you know if you cross you’ll get a smack

158711 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Mike, 6, #202 of 2160 🔗

I agree completely. It is not sexist, but a statement of fact. It explains Temperance, the Climate Change/XR bandwagon as well as conventional religious indoctrination. It also explains why there will never be equality of opportunity – too many women gain power and privilege as ‘enablers’ to want a genuine meritocracy. Having escaped my working class (Catholic) origins by dint of my own drive and ability, it wasn’t long before I met many of these very nice ladies, in addition to the equally nasty men they cavorted with.

158610 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #203 of 2160 🔗

A couple of chillingly caring, womanly moments in recent years.

Hillary Clinton on Gaddaffi “We came, we saw, he died”.

And St. Jacinda of Ardern on her power to remove people’s liberty. “Geet your teest”

158633 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Bart Simpson, 19, #204 of 2160 🔗

There is, and always has been a distinct group of women who are conditioned, and actually enjoy, bullying and shitting on other women. I would classify many as ‘doing men’s dirty work’. They are often to be found as personnel directors in organisations, and are usually women who would never have scaled the dizzy heights on the basis of their own skills and abilities. They are either devious, nasty pieces and/or they have got to where they are by lying on their backs – literally in many cases. They are also to be found in female only settings, so for example, in maternity wards – they are called midwives. Women in childbirth should never be alone without their male partner, and he needs to fight their corner. I have experience of all of these situations. Unfortunately, I was never very good at playing this type of woman I describe!

158668 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #205 of 2160 🔗

Not to mention the Police service…

158803 ▶▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Kevin 2, 1, #206 of 2160 🔗


158720 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #207 of 2160 🔗

I’ve met many in my time, both in hospitals,where they are found everywhere and at university.


158782 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 9, #208 of 2160 🔗

Where I work is female dominated and ironically the last few years – Brexit, Trump and now this virus has shown many of my colleagues mostly women in a different, rather nasty light. I would never trust them even if I was falling off a cliff given that I would suspect them as enthusiastically applying as concentration camp guards should the opportunity arise.

158784 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 10, #209 of 2160 🔗

When I worked in the City, I had a few bosses like that. Always preferred blokes as bosses.

And now, I have some customers who are like this. Treat me like something they have scraped off the bottom of their shoes.

158799 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to kh1485, 4, #210 of 2160 🔗

In fact, one boss who had to leave work early because of an emergency at home said “it’s alright for you kh, you don’t have children” I muttered something along the lines of “and at this rate, I never will”

158950 ▶▶▶ fiery, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 7, #211 of 2160 🔗

Try working in nursing – the breeding ground for bitchy, backstabbing and irredeemably stupid women who would be absolutely useless if they had to think for themselves or were put in a real survival situation.

158637 ▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to Bart Simpson, 19, #212 of 2160 🔗

It seems so for the most part. Some harridan on the local facebook page last night was complaining about the number of restaurants in the town that weren’t observing the face nappy laws. She concluded her post somewhat haughtily that she, “Would have to inform the authorities”.

It gladdened my heart to see that she was shouted down in the replies by men and women alike.

158891 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to The Filthy Engineer, 12, #213 of 2160 🔗

The problem is that these people are always, always taken seriously by the authorities. We now live in a society where you have to prove your innocence. And the malicious dobbers-in get away scot-free.

159054 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to The Filthy Engineer, 7, #214 of 2160 🔗

Yeah. Saw that sort of thing on Facebook as well – one moment preaching about kindness and the value of mental health then the next complaining about those not social distancing, not wearing masks and going on and on about Brexit voters being stupid.

They were always women.

158642 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #215 of 2160 🔗

If I see couples, it is often just the woman who is masked.

They are programmed to be care givers, more likely to go to doctors and not ignore symptoms, and lets be honest, to gossip and decide what happens in a household (how many fathers know their child is going to a birthday party or that they run out of toilet paper?), they are more likely to feel righteous and speak up.

159060 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Silke David, 5, #216 of 2160 🔗

Well said. And because they’re programmed to be care givers, they think it gives them carte blanche to meddle.

158687 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #217 of 2160 🔗

In my experience, a call for solidarity (not just of the “sisterhood”, many organisations or groups are guilty of this) is usually a call to allow someone else to control you instead of those who they claim control you now.

158696 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 5, #218 of 2160 🔗

Incidentally, this phenomenon is not restricted to women.

158689 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Bart Simpson, 10, #219 of 2160 🔗

During the 17th century witch hunts, it was frequently the women of the villages who initially accused others of witchcraft, who were also frequently women. It was the time of civil wars, so it’s possible that the men who were around, were keen to be seen as strong protectors/providers and out of that emerged the Witchfinder General.

While the persecution of older women by men such as Hopkins, can be seen as misogyny, there was clearly this self righteous air amongst the women accusers.
Definitely at least some parallels with what we’re seeing today.

158731 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to PoshPanic, 7, #220 of 2160 🔗

People who are already self confident, self assured and feel supported by culture and society don’t usually pick on others; those who feel threatened and defensive, are more likely to.

158792 ▶▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Bruno, 3, #221 of 2160 🔗

And usually with the backing of a mob

158953 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #222 of 2160 🔗

Agree. Also a woman.

159109 ▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #223 of 2160 🔗

It’s not about sex ,i had a bloke come up to me in lidl a couple of weeks back and ask me why i was’nt wearing a mask. Once i got in his face and asked him if he had a problem he shat himself and backed off .I feel personally things seem to be getting better and i see more unmasked in shops now .I also think more people are aware of exemptions and how easy it is to download if you don’t have a card .

159331 ▶▶ Suburbian, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #224 of 2160 🔗

Sorry to say this because I’m dissing my own sex but it’s because women mostly don’t study any empirical skills and instead go with gut feeling. As a mother gut feeling is usually about protecting your family….but for me as someone who studied engineering and epidemiology I can see through the bogus pretty charts, lack of diverse opinion etc

160460 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Suburbian, 2, #225 of 2160 🔗

I think you’re right about that. When I talk about why the stats are dodgy many of the women don’t want to know. They just keep on repeating the same soundbites ad nauseum.

158568 Julian, replying to Julian, 17, #226 of 2160 🔗

I am slow on the uptake

People have mentioned the dangers of a technocracy

I was corresponding with an acquaintance of mine on the subject of covid. He’s a senior technocrat. His take on all of this is very much along the lines of this is a “problem” to be “solved”, of course by technocratic means, by people like him. If you have a hammer you’re really proud of, everything is made to look like a nail…

158814 ▶▶ RichT, replying to Julian, 5, #227 of 2160 🔗

I was just thinking yesterday, that to these technocrats, the world must seem like a giant game of populous (god game from 1989).

158820 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Julian, 6, #228 of 2160 🔗

Einstein.. ” I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction, the world will have a generation of idiots”

159048 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Julian, 4, #229 of 2160 🔗

This is a fair point and a lesson I leant the hard way in university politics (back in the previous millennium). Mathematicians and scientists tend to mistake their opinions about life in general for the sort of objective facts they deal with in their labs, and their unconscious response to disagreement would be to treat their interlocutor as a slightly dim student who had failed to grasp the explanation and just needed it repeated a bit more slowly and loudly. Talking to your dean like this does not go down well …

159059 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Julian, 3, #230 of 2160 🔗

The sort of technocrat that thrives under the likes of Hitler who give them the means to carry out their maniac schemes

159101 ▶▶ PaulH, replying to Julian, 3, #231 of 2160 🔗

Google: problem – reaction – solution

You will soon start to see how this works.

158571 Julian, replying to Julian, 20, #232 of 2160 🔗

Why are people so gullible when it comes to believing what they are told on health matters? I guess we are used to deferring to doctors – “experts” in matters of health. Most people are pretty cynical about other humans, but there seems to be a blind spot here – one that has been exploited to the maximum.

158603 ▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Julian, 14, #233 of 2160 🔗

A lot of the older generation get all their news and information from legacy media, eg TV & Print. Sadly the legacy media is for the most part all in with the apocalypse even though there’s the odd opinion piece against this madness sprinkled around.
Some have started to see through it but those people who took the bait and allowed themselves to be scared to death will struggle to make rational decisions and reasoned thought no matter who tells them something to the contrary.
I’ve haven’t watched TV for 3-4 months now, absolutely none, it’s full on fear porn as well as 99% garbage lol.

159067 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to NonCompliant, 3, #234 of 2160 🔗

Caught some newspaper headlines yesterday while buying cigs, almost all were “Highest ever Covid Cases !” even though their editors must know its meaningless.

158653 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Julian, 4, #235 of 2160 🔗

Doctors are not called “Gods in a white coat” for nothing. Did I say that right?
Put someone in the clothes, give them a title, like Doctor, people will flop like a puppy and show their belly to be tickled.
I think I heard once doctors who do not have a doctor title are shown less respect by patients.

159061 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Julian, 7, #236 of 2160 🔗

Agree. You see people’s health deteriorating in front of your eyes but they take the next prescribed drugs from their doctor that plaster over the symptoms (many times this results in polypharmacy where they take handfuls of pills that are contraindicated).

They fail to take responsibility for their own health or improving their immune systems.

158576 jhfreedom, replying to jhfreedom, 4, #237 of 2160 🔗

I am coming to the conclusion that of the two routes out of this nightmare (change of attitude to the virus and / or widely accepted vaccine) the vaccine is going to be the most definitive in the minds of policymakers and the mostly (but not all) terrified masses.

As such, this superforecasting site set up by the University of Pennsylvania offers a great tracker of the likelihood of 25m FDA-approved innoculations being ready by end March 2021:


For those of us with an investment inclination, you might be interested to know that the US equity market has been closely correlated with the evolving probability of a vaccine, and goes a long way to explaining the market peak in August followed by the falls in September. The AstraZeneca trial news was a major factor in this. I’m not saying ‘markets always know best’ but they do tend to look ahead quite effectively.

This tracker is arguably one of the most important metric we should all be following right now. Deaths, cases, hospitalisations don’t matter because even though they are low, policymakers and the public remain in terror mode. The exit strategy therefore demands no less than an effective vaccine, nothing else will do.

158589 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to jhfreedom, 7, #238 of 2160 🔗

Always has been, its the only way the climate change lobby can control ‘their’ world, the world they think we are destroying, it was the theme at Davos, No vaccine, no life

158751 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to jhfreedom, 2, #239 of 2160 🔗

Excellent insight.

158763 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to jhfreedom, 8, #240 of 2160 🔗

There is no exit strategy per se.

Why does the vaccine have to be effective?
The immunity passport doesn’t care whether the vaccine is effective.
The vaccine is just an instrument for state control.
It literally does not have to ‘work’ at all in medical terms.
And how can it possibly work, when most of the population have acquired immunity and will never have symptomatic disease.
The plural of vaccine really should be applied.
Because it will be two shots in year 1, and who knows after that.

I do keep one eye on the market though. Because the financial analysts are often the first to be tipped the wink about developments. As we saw with Pascale Soriot of AZN giving out information about AZD1222 to an investor forum, before it was given anywhere else.

I’ve also been watching the share price for Rolls Royce. Down 44% in the last month, and 82% on the year. Shows all the signs of possibly going to the wall shortly.
Govt. is simply looking the other way.
A symbol of British technological excellence for generations.
Plus an important defence contractor.
But now Cummings is running the Defence review, conventional defences are being run down and replaced by massive emphasis on Cybersecurity and Biosecurity.

As a sign of the times and the way the world is going, the RR finance chief Stephen Daintith left earlier this year to take up a post at Ocado (online grocery deliverers.)

158807 ▶▶▶ GuyRich, replying to Kevin 2, 6, #241 of 2160 🔗

Kevin 2, spot on with your first paragraph. It’s never been about a ‘working’ vaccine, merely total control of us lowly serfs. Depressing AF.

158890 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Kevin 2, 2, #242 of 2160 🔗

As one of the first to recognise a ‘ non viable ‘ job when he sees one, and get on his bike.

158965 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to jhfreedom, 3, #243 of 2160 🔗

I am coming to the conclusion that of the two routes out of this nightmare (change of attitude to the virus and / or widely accepted vaccine)

Whenever confronted with two options, choose the third. Old Jewish proverb.

158577 NonCompliant, replying to NonCompliant, 24, #244 of 2160 🔗

Nice to see Toby has finally noticed that The Telegraph talks out of both sides of it’s mouth at last !!!!!
Only cancelled my subscription in July because of this very thing lol.

159091 ▶▶ PaulH, replying to NonCompliant, 4, #245 of 2160 🔗

Probably something to do with getting a cool £3.5m from Bill Gates for its “biosecurity” coverage.

Watch out for the Nuki guy’s stuff. All conforms to the script.

159110 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to PaulH, 5, #246 of 2160 🔗

Don’t agree with that. In reality, an honest newspaper should represent both sides of the argument. I don’t mind the publications such as the Telegraph, Daily Mail and Spectator which have broadly toed the government line in news reporting but at least allowed sceptical and dissenting comment to be aired as well in their pages. It’s the ones that have acted as outright propagandists such as BBC, Guardian, Ties etc, that I really object to.

158586 annie, replying to annie, 60, #247 of 2160 🔗

Been revelling in the invigorating blast of sceptical comments accompanying Richard Littlejohn’s piece in the Mail. But this one made me cry:

“How’s this for sad? My friend, 80, with dementia, in sheltered accommodation thinks the masks and distancing are because the staff think they talk too much. Please, let her get on with WHATEVER is left of her life.”

Oh God, strike down those evil swine with fire from heaven, before it’s too late.

158672 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to annie, 19, #248 of 2160 🔗

Interesting discussion between Fred and Richard fairbrass of right said Fred on yesterday’s Richie Allen show.

Heartbreaking as they were discussing a care home that Richard volunteers!!! at, after an order from the government all staff and patients
now have to wear masks.

Home has had zero deaths and zero cases!!

Patients are also being bussed to a flu vaccination site over 2 miles away which is causing confusion and leaving the elderly disorientated.

Their mother died of Alzheimer’s and they were relieved she hasn’t had to suffer like nearly all of the elderly.

If their is a god the cunts running this fucking scam should be struck down.

Well worth a listen.

158796 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to stefarm, 13, #249 of 2160 🔗

There was strong evidence early on, that deaths in Italy were being caused by stress.

160243 ▶▶▶ H K, replying to stefarm, 2, #250 of 2160 🔗

Yeah I listened to that interview with Right Said Fred. It’s worth listening to!

158719 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to annie, 4, #251 of 2160 🔗

Happy to help with the fire.

158592 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 27, #252 of 2160 🔗

Had an interesting conversation with a guy that I’m working with at the mo. His next door neighbour was 85 and had severe heart disease, and he developed a cold and cough and had to be tested for COVID. His test came back negative but a few weeks later he died due to the heart disease. Anyway, his family wanted to bury him as soon as possible as per their Muslim faith but the doctor told them an autopsy was required which could take weeks or months. As the family wanted to bury him the next day the doctor put COVID as the cause of death so that no autopsy was required.

How many other COVID deaths are being classed this way to negate the need for an autopsy?

158613 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to JohnB, 7, #253 of 2160 🔗

Had the cause of death been any other notifiable disease then an autopsy would be mandatory, but this requirement was removed in the coronavirus legislation for CoViD19.

158619 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to p02099003, 10, #254 of 2160 🔗

It’s a very easy way out of having to do a proper investigation into the death. Makes you wonder if we could have another Shipman on our hands here, and dodgy deaths and forced wills.

158732 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to JohnB, 7, #255 of 2160 🔗

If you look at the actual guidance document about death certificates for doctors and coroners, it basically says “Bang ’em through, don’t involve a coroner unless you really have to”. No symptoms needed, no second opinion needed, just “If you think it might be covid, put that.”.

158724 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to JohnB, 8, #256 of 2160 🔗

Would this explain the earlier profiling – that members of the BAME community were more likely to die with CV19?

159094 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to bluemoon, 1, #257 of 2160 🔗

O/T yesterday Nick Ross suggested to his interviewee that the recent surge in covid cases was down to wealthy young white people not obeying the rules.

Said interviewee went with the age/class part (students) but deftly avoided the race baiting.

159115 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to bluemoon, #258 of 2160 🔗

That’s a very good point and would explain why COVID would be on the death certificate.

158832 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to JohnB, 7, #259 of 2160 🔗

A suicide mentioned on UK Column was attributed to COVID, outbloodyrageous this all is!

159083 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to JohnB, 3, #260 of 2160 🔗

Early into lockdown I came across a key worker ( nanny to two hospital surgeons) who told of of a friend whose baby had died in birth.
The hospital put it down as Covid death but the father in law was ‘something high in the military’ who applied pressure to have that removed.

158595 NonCompliant, replying to NonCompliant, 19, #261 of 2160 🔗

Been doing a bit of number crunching this week. Working backwards with some of the data provided by NHS England. For August and September, 24% of the deaths recorded had no positive test !
I’m going to work through the July figures this week and see if the trend continues but I have a sneaking suspicion it will.
I’ve also been in contact with someone who regulalry put stats with context on the interweb and they’ve said they’ll take a closer look at this one too.

158747 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to NonCompliant, 2, #262 of 2160 🔗

Quick overview on how you reach that conclusion?

158599 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 24, #263 of 2160 🔗

We have our very Prince Charles at Davos part of the ultra obsessive climate change lobby who think that we plebs are destroying their world. They jet around, using up more resources than most of us would in a thousand lifetimes, yet they want us controlled. A vaccine ID which will be used to control and micro manage our lives will be required, for whatever we want to do,. That is the plan, the virus is just the enabler, to control the masses.

158607 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Dan Clarke, 5, #264 of 2160 🔗

Consider charles’ lifestyle, income and properties. How much so called carbon can one life emit? How much energy can one man waste?

Pigs having milk to look aftrr tge rest of us. It is in our best interest charles kniws. If ever there was a twat it would be him.

158643 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Basics, 24, #265 of 2160 🔗

I never thought I would say this but it could be time for a republic.The Queen is totally absent in the biggest crisis we have faced since the 2ND World War and the heir is totally on board with the insane government.She should be the check on state power

158702 ▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 11, #266 of 2160 🔗

I agree and I have always been a royalist considering that the continuity of our monarchy is a good thing for the country though is mainly a figurehead but avoids the elected egotists of presidents. Look at usa election candidates for what a farse this could be, and anyone want a President Blair??.
But I have been disappointed in the power structures we have at the moment representing the citizens of this country, and the queen totally absent (not surprising given her age), and Prince Charles I don’t rate at all. I think once the queen departs there will be changes to the royal family.

158715 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Sue, 5, #267 of 2160 🔗

So do I; a drastic curtailment of the Sovereign Grant/Civil List for starters, too many hangers-on being supported for nought.

President Blair is the stuff of nightmare, but I cannot see Charles and Camilla acceding to the throne.

My feeling is that William is the only one who could reign with any semblance of credibility and acceptance.

I always used to have Republican instincts but recent events have made me despair.

158723 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to wendyk, 5, #268 of 2160 🔗

Yes i agree ref William – I think he would appeal to many in the country as the next monarch, and preferred over Charles. But Charles has waited 50+ years for this and doubtful he’d pass over – don’t know and I guess we’ll have to wait and see…

158839 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Sue, 6, #269 of 2160 🔗

I’m a royalist just because of the thought of someone like president Blair,but ultimately the monarch has a constitutional role.She should step in to stop the march to tyranny

159106 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sue, 1, #270 of 2160 🔗

Blair would have appointed President Prescott, keeping the real power to himself but we’d still be lumbered with John now.

158726 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 7, #271 of 2160 🔗

Exactly. The entire Establishment must go. Been saying this for months. The whole bloody lot are the enemy.

158779 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 6, #272 of 2160 🔗

‘Queen is said to be ‘furious’ after Royal Household staff revolted against a plan for them to stay in a coronavirus bubble at Sandringham over Christmas.

A team of about 20 employees had been asked to remain on the monarch’s Norfolk estate without their families to support her, Prince Philip and other members of the Royal Family during the festive period.

But the group – said to involve cleaners, laundry and maintenance workers – are believed to have mutinied because they are unwilling to isolate from loved ones for four weeks.

Staff were being asked to stay for the month-long period so they could remain in a Covid bubble to protect the 94-year-old monarch.

The uprising means the Queen could be forced to spend Christmas at Windsor Castle for the first time in 33 years. ‘
Mail Online yesterday.

158809 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Bruno, 4, #273 of 2160 🔗

Sounds terrible. I’d hate to have to spend Christmas in a castle.

158810 ▶▶▶▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Bruno, 7, #274 of 2160 🔗

Two things, and both on the basis of me not minding the Queen; I think she’s done an ok job:

  1. I can cook, make a bed and run a hoover. I don’t mind living in a castle for a month looking after Her Maj.
  2. Camilla P-B, who is by all accounts a decent bint, is going to regret marrying that plank.
158827 ▶▶▶▶▶ Albie, replying to Bruno, 6, #275 of 2160 🔗

I doubt the Queen is “furious” at all. I call bull on this “Royal source” quote. We on here know full well to take every news article with a pinch of salt.

158846 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Bruno, 4, #276 of 2160 🔗

she should have invited all their families too – i’m sure they have more than enough bedrooms to put them up – then ‘ol queenie could have a jolly knees up with her subjects round the xmas tree!! 🙂

160007 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Sue, 1, #277 of 2160 🔗

Rule of six though
How does that work with ones servants?!

159114 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bruno, #278 of 2160 🔗

Sounds like Mail blollocks, they could rustle up a couple of dozen loyalists if they needed to.
Plenty of NHS staff isolated from families for weeks staying in serviced apartments and hotels.

159232 ▶▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #279 of 2160 🔗

Being a Republic has always been the grown up way forward .It’s always saddening to see these pathetic appeals to the queen whether it’s the right or the left being upset about something .The very idea they give a shit about us landless peasants is laughable and childish .The sad truth is and always has been the people of this country without wealth or power can only look to each other for help ,security and solidarity . Unlike others on this site i have faith that ultimately if the government do not change course it will be the masses who will break us out of the straight jacket we are in .As we are on this theme i think the ENGLISH REPUBLICANS would be a much better name than Lawrence Fox RECLAIM ,which sounds like a new boy band .One things for sure something must fill the vacuum by the next election as the two party system is finished

159121 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to alw, #281 of 2160 🔗

Read that this morning while waiting for Toby to post.

158606 NonCompliant, replying to NonCompliant, 4, #282 of 2160 🔗

Lets get this party started folks 😉


158616 ▶▶ Julian, replying to NonCompliant, 3, #283 of 2160 🔗

Bit light on policy, as in none. No mention of covid.

158853 ▶▶ Locked down and out, replying to NonCompliant, #284 of 2160 🔗

Isn’t that a direct quote from Jim the washing machine salesman and formerly one of our finest MPs? By the way, what is it about Leicester East as a constituency?

158976 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Locked down and out, #285 of 2160 🔗

Dubious area – wasn’t Janner from around there ?

160244 ▶▶ H K, replying to NonCompliant, #286 of 2160 🔗

I prefer David Kurten’s Heritage Party:

158611 Sue, replying to Sue, 2, #287 of 2160 🔗

On Facebook the Boris Johnson site has posted article about training schemes this morning. All the comments i read slate him about crashing the economy/jobs etc.
A typical comment: “ You’re doing a terrible job. Sorry, I misspoke. You’re doing a diabolical job
There are a lot of pissed off people out there – Boris should be concerned about the public mood – could turn nasty.

Here’s the link – hope it works


158614 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Sue, 2, #288 of 2160 🔗

Does it list any training schemes for former members of the government?

158641 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to p02099003, 2, #289 of 2160 🔗

Maybe they can Learn To Code

158648 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to mhcp, 4, #290 of 2160 🔗

Code?? Let’s not run before we can walk. Start with simple adding up

158745 ▶▶▶▶▶ bucky99, replying to stefarm, #291 of 2160 🔗

Defo tend to prefer software engineers who can count.

158755 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to mhcp, 2, #292 of 2160 🔗

Lesrn to Be Human would be a good foundation course.

158951 ▶▶▶▶ Toby Pierides, replying to mhcp, 1, #293 of 2160 🔗

Waste of time. Multinationals prefer Indian junior programmers brought in on via the back door that is intra company visas, by the likes of Infosys and Cognizant. Funny coincidence that Sunak’s father in law is head honcho at Infosys…

158785 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Sue, 1, #294 of 2160 🔗

You need to delete all the link after the ?
The rest may identify you.

158617 Silke David, replying to Silke David, 31, #295 of 2160 🔗

That letter by Gilbert, the 18 y old, is one of the best letters published here!
To the point, polite and yet punchy!

158645 ▶▶ Jenny, replying to Silke David, 3, #296 of 2160 🔗

Agree totally. Very good!

158907 ▶▶ LS99, replying to Silke David, 4, #297 of 2160 🔗

Agreed David – I was seriously impressed!

158618 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 15, #298 of 2160 🔗

I’ve just read the comments on The Daily Record about the hapless 10 year old’s birthday experiences with the cops; unbelievable-all complaining about lockdown being lifted too soon.

And, as for Ayrshire cops, they ignore all the local drug dealing which many of us have complained about over the years.

Too busy issuing warnings to children.

I wonder whether we should start a Habeas Corpus party?

158752 ▶▶ annie, replying to wendyk, 6, #299 of 2160 🔗

Actually that’s a good name.
As the best history book ever, 1066 and All That, reminds us, Habeas Corpus means we can keep our bodies.

158854 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to annie, 3, #300 of 2160 🔗

I loved that book! O for the days when we were allowed to laugh at everything!

So, let’s suggest Habeas Corpus to some influential sympathisers; any suggestions?

Annie,you’re good at taking aim where it matters.

159130 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, #301 of 2160 🔗

Not if you are going to be autopsied, your body becomes the property of the Court.

158622 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 26, #302 of 2160 🔗

I am beyond angry.
At this very moment on R4, another “expert” is seriously advocating that all over 65’s should isolate themselves for 3 months because “BLAH,BLAH,BLAH”
Is this stupid person suggesting that my wife,her brother and myself shut ourselves away and leave my 95 year old mother in law to fend for herself?
I have always been a lifelong pacifist but at this moment “If I could put my hand on a gun”

158644 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #303 of 2160 🔗

It’s wicked. There will be people who go along with it. I don’t think it will be law though – overreach. I hope.

158665 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Julian, 1, #304 of 2160 🔗

To be honest, the woman who opposed her said “You are talking about ” up to 20% of the population here, it would be unworkable” but then whenever did logic and commonsense cut any ice with these arrogant patronising bullies?

158722 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #305 of 2160 🔗

I just listened to 3 minutes of that program this morning, what a twat that Oxford Behavioural compliance woman was. Her arguments for lockdowns and restrictions were incredible. However the other woman was it Gupta, she was the voice of reason. At least THE BASTARD BBC are talking it now. The BASTARDS.

158753 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Two-Six, 2, #306 of 2160 🔗

And I believe you can apply that to ITV,Channels 4 and 5 and Sky; correct me if I’m wrong.

158738 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #307 of 2160 🔗

It’s insane. I am reminded of the “Map is not the territory” analogy.

They have these models which suggest that a level pull here, a little incentive there means people will move in the exact way you want them to.

Do they ever get out into the real world?

158861 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #308 of 2160 🔗


159039 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #309 of 2160 🔗

They conveniently do not distinguish between healthy and sick people. Also no mention of improving our immunity.

159098 ▶▶ PaulH, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #310 of 2160 🔗

Another “scientist” with no skin in the game.

It is all a big fun experiment for them.

158624 Silke David, 2, #311 of 2160 🔗

I bought a Doro smartphone last year as it was a VERY good price, mainly to use it for travel. After using it once for flying, I vowed to go back to paper tickets, as I found it too much hassle to have to unlock my phone several times and swipe here, press here to get my ticket on the screen.
It is pay as you go and I have not topped it up since March (when I last travelled).
This morning I have no connection, I used it at home on Wifi to access the internet.
It will not be re-activated.

158628 stewart, replying to stewart, 97, #312 of 2160 🔗

What madness are we living?

When one stops to think of the insanity of it all. A bunch of politicians and officials have persuaded themselves and a large part of the world population that they have the power and ability to control a virus that has spread to millions all over the world.

This coalition of imbeciles and sociopaths are indulging a ridiculous, dangerous fantasy that is destroying all our lives. They are misusing and abusing the awesome power of the state to impose half-baked, completely unproven ideas that have no effect other than to wreak havoc in the lives of millions of people.

They have stirred up some of our worst instincts like fear, mistrust and censoriousness. And like the thugs that they are, they won’t stop to listen to anyone who tries to talk sense into them. Instead they intimidate and stamp down on those who refuse to play along with their obscene, macabre game.

Seeing this atrocity unfold before us all, seeing how ridiculous and unnecessary it all is and seeing the pain and suffering and despair it is causing is just maddening.

It is simply not enough that this comes to a rapid end. Every politician and official who has had a significant role in this monstrosity needs to face a severe punishment that must serve as an example to anyone who might ever think of doing something like this again. And the power of the state needs to be pared back so that it can’t be used to destroy lives as it is now.

158661 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to stewart, 46, #313 of 2160 🔗

You are absolutely spot on. Personally, I view this as a crime against humanity.

158727 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to JHuntz, 12, #314 of 2160 🔗

Me too.

158871 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Two-Six, 6, #315 of 2160 🔗


159042 ▶▶▶ xplod, replying to JHuntz, 20, #316 of 2160 🔗

Came to the same conclusion whilst walking back from the shop this morning; looking at all the lost souls wearing masks in their cars, walking the streets, and doing their shopping. Someone has to pay for this abomination!

158692 ▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to stewart, 8, #317 of 2160 🔗

Well said, sir.

158704 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to stewart, 11, #318 of 2160 🔗

Quite agree; they should all be prosecuted-where I don’t know-but they must be held to account,and soon.

158878 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to wendyk, 13, #319 of 2160 🔗

Brick wall, AK-47, Christmas Day.

159124 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Nick Rose, 1, #320 of 2160 🔗

Treble time ?

159004 ▶▶ PaulH, replying to stewart, 14, #321 of 2160 🔗

Indeed. This shouldn’t just be a case of ending someone’s political or civil service career.

It has all gone far beyond that. Criminal charges should follow.

159097 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to PaulH, 7, #322 of 2160 🔗

I agree, but as we saw with the Iraq war, in practice it’s almost impossible to prosecute such moral crimes because those in charge are very careful to write the laws so they are technically within them, as interpreted of course by complicit, protective or just self-interested judges and prosecutors.

159118 ▶▶▶▶ PaulH, replying to Mark, #323 of 2160 🔗

You are right – that’s the thing.

They should follow, but they won’t.

159038 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to stewart, 12, #324 of 2160 🔗

Absolutely spot on. What makes me so f*****g gut clenching angry is who the hell do these Politicians think they are to declare that their lives/opinions are worth more than any other human being on this planet.

159175 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to stewart, 12, #325 of 2160 🔗

Well said and I wish I can like your comment more than once!

This crisis has really brought out the worst in people. True you have those volunteering to help the vulnerable or Captain Tom raising money but I think that the bad has outweighed the good to the point where this is breaking up relationships and friendships.

What’s worse are the government and their advisors using this crisis for their own selfish ends and the gratification of their ego. I’ve always believed that people don’t enter politics to serve the public, they do it for their own selfish ends and we’re seeing it in its extreme form at the moment.

It is simply not enough that this comes to a rapid end. Every politician and official who has had a significant role in this monstrosity needs to face a severe punishment that must serve as an example to anyone who might ever think of doing something like this again. And the power of the state needs to be pared back so that it can’t be used to destroy lives as it is now.

Absolutely. I’m not a believer in capital punishment but perhaps we can make an example of those responsible for this shit show – an eye for an eye….

Plus there should be safeguards against the grotesque abuse of state power to avoid this sort of thing happening ever again.

159310 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #326 of 2160 🔗

I think you are right about selfish ends. Looking back in history there are examples of leaders doing the wrong thing with good motivations.
The motivations in this case are at least in part, the desire to be seen to have saved thousands of lives, and be seen as the party of the NHS. They think this is the way they keep in power until at least 2029.
They think that the costs of their action are worth bearing, compared to the political risk of having not acted sufficiently.
It was safer for them to copy what other countries did.
Let’s hope it massively backfires when people see the results of these policies.

159246 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to stewart, 8, #327 of 2160 🔗

Well, if it looks like a fascist Government, talks like one and behaves like one perhaps the simplest explanation is that is what it is.

Let’s see if Parliament has the balls to vote against the Enabling Act today. If so, maybe that will be the turning point.

160246 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to stewart, #328 of 2160 🔗

Heads! Spikes! Walls!
It’s the only way

158631 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #329 of 2160 🔗

Boris Biden.

158647 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Jay Berger, 5, #330 of 2160 🔗

He does look as if his brain has been baked.

158632 BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 16, #331 of 2160 🔗

That letter from the parent is hard to read. In particular that she looks forward to the day ‘when this is over’ so they can treat her daughter and friends.

This won’t be over anytime soon as Vallance & Witty will be reminding us today. And the BBC continue to warn us that until we find some substance to inject our bodies with, you can forget normality.

What’s that? The curves all over Europe show a natural bend to this virus that suggests herd immunity? First to the Gulag with you!!

158888 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 4, #332 of 2160 🔗

Look on the bright side. Just because the BBC say it, doesn’t make it true.

158635 JohnMac, replying to JohnMac, 11, #333 of 2160 🔗

I can’t work this out. Is epidemiology a branch of science or a branch of politics?

158640 ▶▶ IanE, replying to JohnMac, 3, #334 of 2160 🔗

Neither: it is a wannabe branch of both!

158658 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to JohnMac, 7, #335 of 2160 🔗

It is directly akin to climate change ‘science’. It is promoted by exactly the same types of people, funded by the same types of people, and using the models produced by the same types of people.

158859 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to JohnMac, 5, #336 of 2160 🔗

it’s demonology

159131 ▶▶ mjr, replying to JohnMac, 5, #337 of 2160 🔗

i think it is on a par with astrology

159177 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to JohnMac, #338 of 2160 🔗

It’s junk science and should be consigned to history like phrenology.

158639 mwhite, replying to mwhite, 3, #339 of 2160 🔗

The council elections in march should be interesting.

Assuming they’re not cancelled

158650 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to mwhite, 4, #340 of 2160 🔗

With “social distancing” it would probably take a week for the usual 15/20% turnout to vote so,yes they will probably be cancelled (soon to be abolished?) for public safety.

158660 ▶▶ cloud6, replying to mwhite, 5, #341 of 2160 🔗

The bets are on …. cancelled.

158671 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to cloud6, 1, #342 of 2160 🔗

They’re already talking about ‘postponing’ May’s Welsh Senedd elections.

What about my ‘Covid-safe’ postal vote?

I’ll bet on ‘cancelled’ too.

158676 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to cloud6, 2, #343 of 2160 🔗

No brainer.

158826 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to mwhite, #344 of 2160 🔗

In May 2021. We still hope, anyway.

158898 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to mwhite, 2, #345 of 2160 🔗

Unless there’s a party wanting to abolish the Welsh Assembly standing, I won’t be bothering.

158649 Julian, replying to Julian, 25, #346 of 2160 🔗

I’ve noticed a few “friends” of mine have simply blanked me since I expressed sceptic views. Being treated like an embarrassing racist uncle or something. Disappointing. If you disagree with me, engage or I will assume you don’t much believe your own arguments.

158657 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Julian, 9, #347 of 2160 🔗

I know it’s hard and causes bad feelings but we have to fight on for all our sakes.

158700 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #348 of 2160 🔗

The Spanish Civil War saw families torn in two. Brexit here has had a similar effect (short of the violence). So I’m afraid we must expect this.

158706 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to jhfreedom, 15, #349 of 2160 🔗

I voted leave but didn’t feel visceral hatred of remainers, even though some of them felt that about me. This seems different to me – a way more important issue. And I do feel hatred for people who knowingly support the nonsense.

158735 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Julian, 13, #350 of 2160 🔗

Me too. Now I really hate everybody, it’s a real thing. I operate under the assumption that everybody I meet will be a totally brainwashed spiteful selfish brainwashed COVID cultist. It’s great if I find out they are not. It’s a rare thing.

158741 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Two-Six, 6, #351 of 2160 🔗

Only 10% of people self-isolated. I think that means 90% think its a load of bollox or certainly ‘doesnt apply to them’.

158746 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Two-Six, 6, #352 of 2160 🔗

Just think of them as being like the slugs that eat your garden plants. Repulsive, but not worth the trouble of hating.

158992 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to annie, #353 of 2160 🔗

Yep, best to just encourage and support the hedgehogs !

158739 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to jhfreedom, 1, #354 of 2160 🔗

Yes, I worked with a refugee from San Sebastian (Jose/Spanish Joe)
who never saw his parents ever again.
I believe that Michael Portillo’s father(Republican) had 5 or 6 brothers who fought for Franco.

159129 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #355 of 2160 🔗

in spain, they would through the opposition over a cliff.
Here they throw the economy over a cliff

158709 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #356 of 2160 🔗

I think it’s hard when it is within a family and you upset people that you otherwise like. With my ex-friends, I am just a bit surprised, but not hurt. Easier for me as my Mrs and other close family are all sceptics.

158736 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Julian, 2, #357 of 2160 🔗

I am an out and out sceptic but I am not very pushy about it. I just tell people I think the lockdown will kill more than is avoided. Everyone I speak to seems to agree except my mum. But she was against the MMR

158995 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to steve_w, 1, #358 of 2160 🔗

Now now. We’ll get told off for straying, but the MMR was and is shite.

158948 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Julian, 3, #359 of 2160 🔗

Yes, I get the same all the time. Silence. I want them to at least tell me why they think this whole thing is a good idea, it’s infuriating that they won’t engage in a grown up conversation!

159107 ▶▶ PaulH, replying to Julian, 3, #360 of 2160 🔗

Same here. About 80% of “friends” now gone as a result of my “heresy”.

Family intact, thank God.

159202 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to PaulH, 1, #361 of 2160 🔗

Hard to judge, I think, because the response is generally silence and withdrawal rather than active engagement, as Julian pointed out.

158835 ▶▶ Kate, replying to p02099003, #363 of 2160 🔗

This is a very useful video, explaining the problems with the PCR test.

Shame the good doctor got fact checked by facebook.

158670 p02099003, 3, #364 of 2160 🔗

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWiIYW_fBfY Dwight D Eisenhower on the industrial military complex and the industrial scientific elite.

158680 cloud6, 6, #365 of 2160 🔗

Reviewed in 90 minutes by MP’s today.

Up to 90 minutes ( Standing Order No. 16(1) )
Secretary Matt Hancock
That the temporary provisions of the Coronavirus Act 2020 should not yet expire.


There are 8 amendments which just play on words, so the above motion will go through.

Everything has been ramped up to do this, 70+ deaths, 1 Million+ deaths worldwide, lockdowns, testing, science (?), the public on the naughty step etc……

158682 karenovirus, 1, #366 of 2160 🔗

BBC Radio 4 More Or Less 9am
First item discussed how recent headlines about ‘record levels of new cases!’ did not mean that more people are going to die in a way that would have seemed quite normal here @LS.
What they did not say is that new cases are not rising exponentially as per Witless & Unbalanced,(the opposition in fact).
Watch, or listen, to that space same time next week.

158685 Silke David, replying to Silke David, 7, #367 of 2160 🔗

German leaders had a discussion on how can you screw everyone up even more? yesterday.
One new thing is to issue fines for wrong contact details left at restaurants.
Many comments How can you trace a wrong name and number? Ok, it will stop Mickey Mouse and Donald Trump.
What the media failed to report in their headlines, or even further in the text, it is the RESTAURANT who will get fined 50 Euro for each contact that cannot be traced.
Therefor either guests will stay at home or they will be made felt guilty if they put down a wrong name.
There were “outbreaks” in 2 pubs in Hamburg in parts of town frequented by mainly political left. Many people could not be traced.
One asks themselves, why the fuck did the patrons (if it was a customer) who got ill get tested?
Maybe if you call in sick to your employer with a cold, they insist on a test? Well, hopefully there will be lots of sprained ankles or similar instead then!

158768 ▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to Silke David, 7, #368 of 2160 🔗

Starting to think it will be a good idea to ditch the mobile phone for good, since it is no longer a tool for MY convenience but a spying mechanism at the government’s whim. What next being fined for not having the damn thing charged, or leaving it at home?

159185 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Silke David, 3, #369 of 2160 🔗

Looks like they’re finding more and more ways to screw businesses. They should really stand up and say no to this nonsense.

Funny you should think about loads of sprained ankles. I said the same to my husband – when people phone in sick despite the fact that they have a cold, they will lie and say they either have a bad back or food poisoning.

159292 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Silke David, 1, #370 of 2160 🔗

Update to my above report, now the media reports it has not been decided yet by civil servants how this is going to be enforced.
Apparently the restaurant will NOT be asked to pay the fine!
Restaurants will not have the power to ask for ID.
Some comments argue if you pay by card, the staff could compare the name on the card to the info provided whilst the guest is paying. Of course if they still accept cash, everyone will pay cash now. And how will they get the person to give the correct details? Employ a heavyweight?
A lot of sceptical to raging comments, a lot of them saying they will not eat out anymore. More businesses which are already struggling going bust.
Lots of people are opposed as they do not trust the business nor the govt to handle the data securely.
Some are asking for proof how many infections happen in establishments like restaurants?
Most infections seem to happen in the household or a private parties.

158686 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 14, #371 of 2160 🔗

Brief excursion in the pouring rain a few minutes ago: spotted a healthy young bloke,gagged and carrying a takeaway coffee.

This behaviour is quite baffling; open air, plus mask, plus drink.

Life in the new normal…..

158694 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to wendyk, 2, #372 of 2160 🔗

Saw a motorcyclist wearing one the other day.

158699 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #373 of 2160 🔗

😲 🙄


158718 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to wendyk, #374 of 2160 🔗

But true.

158742 ▶▶▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to wendyk, 1, #375 of 2160 🔗

I am sure this has been posted before, but it makes me laugh every time I see it. JP is a legend.

158716 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Fingerache Philip., #376 of 2160 🔗

motorcyclist must have been taking the mick?

158725 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to anon, 1, #377 of 2160 🔗

Possibly, I talk as a motorcyclist (retired: Too cold/Too old), but hasn’t there been reports of car drivers wearing them too?

158772 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #378 of 2160 🔗

Yes, I’ve seen several of them myself.

158836 ▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #379 of 2160 🔗

indeed there have and I have sadly witnessed the muzzled driver


159003 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to anon, #380 of 2160 🔗

Sadly, some poor fuckers could be practising for their driving tests.

158918 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #381 of 2160 🔗

Plenty here,which leads me to ask-being a non driver : is there a possibility that mask wearing could cause confusion and distraction, thus posing a hazard?

Hand held mobiles not allowed, so shouldn’t masks be banned as well?

158935 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to wendyk, 6, #382 of 2160 🔗

Yes, I would be concerned driving wearing something that would – potentially or otherwise – reduce my oxygen supply. Even if a mask did nothing more than steam up my glasses. Only a matter of time before there’s an accident.

158957 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to wendyk, 1, #383 of 2160 🔗

Totally agree.

159249 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Fingerache Philip., #384 of 2160 🔗

Was it Biker ? (smiley face if I had any idea how to do one)

158712 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to wendyk, 3, #385 of 2160 🔗

Ha, some oddball at the school was doing that this morning. He hung his mask on one ear to take sips of his coffee. Strange!

158717 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to wendyk, 2, #386 of 2160 🔗

And in the rain?! An even soggier mask!

158912 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to bluemoon, #387 of 2160 🔗

Yes indeed; when it rains here,as now, it pours and pours.

158729 ▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to wendyk, 3, #388 of 2160 🔗

Saw a gent walking along, mask on chin with ciggy hanging out of his mouth with an inch of ash about to drop. I was surprised he hadn’t burst into flames!

158908 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Girl down Under, 2, #389 of 2160 🔗

Spontaneous Mask Related Combustion… tempting

158762 ▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to wendyk, 7, #390 of 2160 🔗

I posted about a similar sighting on Saturday. We were driving over to a small market town in the county. The terrain in this part of the county is undulating hills with some long steep climbs. We happened to pass a 50 something cyclist who was literally grinding his way up one of these long steep climbs and as we passed him I notice that he was wearing a face nappy. I mean FFS it was rural England. The road is quiet and the air clean.

158924 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to wendyk, 1, #391 of 2160 🔗


159104 ▶▶ NickR, replying to wendyk, 2, #392 of 2160 🔗

I saw an elderly couple in a car this morning, both wearing masks! What goes through these people’s heads?

159234 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to NickR, 1, #393 of 2160 🔗

Unfortunately, very little, I suspect….

158691 Fingerache Philip., 10, #394 of 2160 🔗

Never let any opportunity go to waste.
Just seen an ad on social media advertising “The mask you can wear for hours ( days, perhaps?)
I just hope that there will be enough walls to put these despicable creeps up against.

158693 zacaway, replying to zacaway, 8, #395 of 2160 🔗

Sometimes you feel that they just don’t want it to end, so weak are the
excuses they come up with for dismissing any solution except lockdown or

Right, so perhaps that is actually the real problem.

158697 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to zacaway, 5, #396 of 2160 🔗

The Far Left are complicit, the pandemic response engorges the state and destroys businesses meaning that everyone must rely on the government. And the obscene spending creates an excuse to tax ‘the rich’ and redistribute.

There are other vested interests too of course.

158703 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to jhfreedom, 4, #397 of 2160 🔗

Oh and more generally, if it all ends then it suggests that the lockdowns were wrong. And no one wants to admit to themselves (government or gullible fearful public) that they were wrong. So this thing still has legs…

158734 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to jhfreedom, 4, #398 of 2160 🔗

There are so many vested interests, without even touching the surface of the deeper conspiracies. e.g. Patrick Vallance (sponsored by GlaxoSmithKline to advise the Government). All the tin-pot dictators in local councils using their new emergency powers to close roads and generally stick it to the people, telling them what they can/cannot do. Bigger businesses who can make it though (or thrive, like Amazon) expecting the competition to get mown down by the insanity.

158868 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to jhfreedom, 6, #399 of 2160 🔗

I agree with you about sections of the so-called ‘left’.

But, you are looking through one eye. The biggest beneficiaries of state subsidy and intervention has always been capital and those made rich by it. See ‘vaccines’ and ‘big Pharma’.

158710 ▶▶ Gavroche, replying to zacaway, 18, #400 of 2160 🔗

The WHO’s David Nabarro was interviewed on TalkRadio this morning. Having raised the spectre of long-COVID, he then added something along the lines of: ‘we now think there may be further complications with COVID which we don’t even know about’. I see, so now we have to take precautions against possible negative effects that ‘we don’t even know about’.

Is this man a scientist or a soothsayer? Unbelievable!

158721 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Gavroche, 2, #401 of 2160 🔗

Yes, I heard that. Think he said a fifth of infections (or is that “cases”?) result in long-term problems. Any source for that, or did he just make it up?

158771 ▶▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to zacaway, #402 of 2160 🔗

For some values of “long-term”.

158808 ▶▶▶▶ Nic, replying to zacaway, 5, #403 of 2160 🔗

Made it up

158954 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Gavroche, 1, #404 of 2160 🔗

I’ll take my chances, thanks.

158713 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to zacaway, 7, #405 of 2160 🔗

You have to remember that Coronavirus is virtually a free ride for Boris, Hancock, et al. They can make up laws whenever they like without scrutiny, they can give the illusion of managing a crisis, they can make themselves feel like they are performing a great social service, putting their arms around the country. Through all this they have virtually no challenge from their own party, the opposition, the media or the people. It’s the easiest politics in the world. Not like Brexit negotiations, etc. where every day is a slog. They’re loving it.

158707 BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 6, #406 of 2160 🔗

When the Auz style outdoor mask intimidation starts one way to get around it.

Wear running gear 24/7.

158714 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 3, #407 of 2160 🔗

On that topic actually. Good to see a local MLA here in Northern Ireland step up to defend exemptions

158728 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #408 of 2160 🔗

Got another answer back today from the College of Policing bout how to start an investigation for treason:

“Thank you for your email.

I would suggest your first port of call would be your local force.”

2 out of 3 say start it off with a report to the local force.

Waiting on just the NPCC to reply then might just do that.

Good to see all the sceptical comments on the (almost unusable) Daily Fail website today and some good ones on the story about another “outbreak inside the hospital” as the quote buried in the story says. So another outbreak caught after they entered hospital then, that’s 2 this month.

Wife also mentioned yesterday evening the completely different attitude in Central and ITV evening news shows, questioning, more sceptical etc which was heartening even if there is still a long way to go.

One question – anyone see Biden’s eyes on the debate last night? – nearly totally black, no human feelings whatsoever in them.

158838 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #409 of 2160 🔗

Is he a hologram?

159151 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to stefarm, #410 of 2160 🔗

Or a zombie? Cloned with it’s programme running down?

Or just too ill to be out on his own let alone run for office?

158730 Jules, 3, #411 of 2160 🔗

The photograph is of Boris playing with tools, just like at Cabinet meetings.

158733 Humanity First, replying to Humanity First, 11, #412 of 2160 🔗

Random musings/questions:

  • The same people who wouldn’t think twice to sell their own grannies in their personal pursuit of power/wealth  …are now claiming that had had to destroy the country to save the life of just one?
  • The only ‘acceptable’ and ‘non- conspiracy theory’ explanations for the decisions of those who have condemned the country and its inhabitants to economic and psychological ruin is that they are either (i) ‘crazy’, ‘insane’, ‘buffoons’, etc or (ii) are ‘drunk on power’ and are therefore unable to see the consequences of their actions…BUT these are the same p eople who throughout their careers have displayed the highest intelligence, cunning, strategic thinking,etc. to rise to the highest  posts in the land?
158754 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Humanity First, 1, #413 of 2160 🔗

I think they think they are making the right decisions. And who can blame them? The main narrative is that they broadly are. Over time the truth will come out like it always does. But this won’t be the first time leaders do crazy stuff and everyone claims they knew at the time how stupid it was.

158744 Richard Pinch, replying to Richard Pinch, -4, #414 of 2160 🔗

I have read the preprint of Professor Gomes et al and have to say that I disagree with the way it is presented here.

Firstly, let’s say that the simple model of the epidemic in an unmitigated or “do-nothing” scenario, suggesting herd immunity levels around 60% and eventual case rates around 80%, are clearly not consistent with the subsequent experiences of places where such policies have been adopted. That calls into question the assumptions of the model.

One possible explanation is that the pre-existing immunity levels were higher than assumed (originally low to zero, of course). Pre-existing immunity or resistance at levels around 50% when modelled in a simple homogeneous model fit subsequent data reasonably well. This gives rise to a testable hypothesis, and has been proposed by people such as Prof. Gupta. It will be observed that the 50% resistance is inferred : that is, we do not (yet) have any data suggesting it to be correct, but it is the figure that best fits the model to the data.

Another possible explanation is that the infectivity or susceptibility of the population is not homogenous. (In fact, pre-existing immunity or resistance is a simple form of this hypothesis, dividing the population into two classes, susceptible and resistant). The preprint of Gomes and others uses a more sophisticated way of modelling the different rates at which people interact, assuming a certain way in which peoples’ interactions vary (“gamma distribution”) with a numerical parameter “alpha”. So lower susceptibility in this model is not an intrinsic biological property of the person, but is simply a consequence of their lower rate of interaction with other people. (In fact, a point of the preprint is to show that the two reasons, intrinsic and behavioural susceptibility, are modelled in exactly the same way.)

So Gomes shows that on the specific (“gamma”) hypothesis of heterogeneity, there is a value of alpha which causes her model to fit the data reasonably well. (She also uses varying IFR values.). So, like Gupta’s proposal, this is a hypothesis that can be tested. Observations of peoples’ behaviour could be made to test whether the “gamma” model is a good fit, and whether the inferred value of alpha is correct.

But until there is some reason to believe that Gomes’s gamma hypothesis is valid and her inferred value of alpha is correct, what we have here is a plausible but unverified model, for which there is an as yet undetermined parameter, one value of which fits the data well.

This can hardly be considered a foundation for a conclusive judgement about policies.

158770 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Richard Pinch, 18, #415 of 2160 🔗

Until I see proof that lockdowns will save more lives than non-lockdowns then the precautionary principle would say don’t lock down. No proof was ever shown but there always was evidence and it is mounting daily that the converse is true.

158811 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to steve_w, 2, #416 of 2160 🔗

Neil Ferguson is back

158817 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #417 of 2160 🔗

Just to be clear: I am not Prof Ferguson, have no connexion with him, have never worked with or even met him — I am an entirely separate person posting here under my real name.

158989 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #418 of 2160 🔗

Are you his mum?

158998 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #419 of 2160 🔗

Please don’t make personal remarks. I’m happy to listen to a discussion of his, or anyone else’s work on its merits, but I assume that when people address personal remarks to me then they have run out of things worth my paying attention to.

159090 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Richard Pinch, 5, #420 of 2160 🔗

I and many others have tried to debate with you.You still justify the flawed model which Ferguson produced.You say that computer modelling is a useful tool but you can’t argue that they are only as good as the information entered.
Make one error or omission and the result is flawed.
Ferguson’s model was a 14 y o flu model with a IFR based on 6 planes from China and assumed no pre immunity in the population.
It is my opinion that it was used to give a scientific veneer to justify a political decision already made

159193 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #421 of 2160 🔗

I and many others have tried to debate with you.You still justify the flawed model which Ferguson produced.

It seems that I have failed to convey my position during that debate, then. I have consistently stated that I have not studied Ferguson’s complex agent-based model, and therefore am not in a position to comment on it, let alone justify it (or any other applications of it). I have defended the general principle that mathematical modelling is capable of being a valuable tool in decision-making and in particular can give useful answers even when there is uncertainty in the inputs. I have also defended the estimate of 510,000 deaths as a useful response to the policy question about the Reasonable Worst Case estimate for the “do-nothing” scenario, based on the data available at the time, specially since a similar answer is produced by other, independent models, including one I wrote myself. I have pointed out that a RWC is explicitly not a prediction, and even if it had been supposed to be a prediction for a certain scenario (which I reiterate, it was not), it makes no sense to criticise it as a prediction for a completely different scenario.

158812 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to steve_w, #422 of 2160 🔗

Not deducible from this preprint, though.

158849 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to steve_w, 2, #423 of 2160 🔗

Even then, you would be entitled to oppose lockdowns, given the non-fatal harms incurred.

… on this basis, WWII would never have been fought.

158996 ▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to RickH, 2, #424 of 2160 🔗

agree 100%. What price freedom? Its not just about deaths, not about life years or even quality life years.

159011 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to steve_w, #425 of 2160 🔗

If lockdowns worked, we would have been doing them for centuries. There’s your null hypothesis.

159017 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Nick Rose, -1, #426 of 2160 🔗

Er, that is what we, or rather our predecessors, did do … but perhaps that was your point?

159063 ▶▶▶▶▶ E Spencer, replying to Richard Pinch, 3, #427 of 2160 🔗

Preposterous. When did the country “lockdown” the healthy, who are needed to look after the vulnerable, in prior epidemics? The plague, yes but this is nothing like the plague.

159165 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to E Spencer, 1, #428 of 2160 🔗

It seems that you have answered your own question.

158819 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Richard Pinch, 12, #429 of 2160 🔗

…meanwhile millions of peoples lives are ruined, people die alone, cancer diagnoses are delayed, people die because they are afraid to go to the hospital, family units are destroyed, personal liberties are removed, students are imprisoned, the economy tanks, poverty inevitably increases, etc. based on a model using data from 6 flights from China. In what way is that model any more valid than this one? Maybe it’s time to start working from the more moderate and positive models rather than the worst case all the time? Then at least we can start to test their validity.

158833 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Achilles, 2, #430 of 2160 🔗

As I said, the model makes a testable statement about how people behave, with a measurable parameter alpha. Testing that statement would shed light on its validity.

You will, of course have read the line in the preprint

Under the heterogeneity model, the stepwise effect of lockdown on the imputed daily number of infections is smaller than under the homogeneity model

which means that the model shows lockdown as having an effect?

158850 ▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Richard Pinch, 6, #431 of 2160 🔗

I haven’t decided whether lockdown has an effect. In fact I’m not sure how that can be proved while we still have constant interventions. All we get is models. However, it’s not really relevant whether it has an effect. It’s the size of the impact that matters and the strictness of the lockdown. You can argue the maths all you like but Sweden has quite clearly shown that minimal restrictions does not result in exponential spread of the disease, huge spikes in deaths or overwhelming of care facilities. That is experiential fact not a model.

159008 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Achilles, 7, #432 of 2160 🔗

In the final reckoning, it doesn’t matter if this thing kills 0.1% of the population, 1%, 10%, 50% or even 99.99%, you DO NOT lock down the healthy population.

158945 ▶▶▶▶ JohnMac, replying to Richard Pinch, 8, #433 of 2160 🔗

The fact is that the virus has killed people. Viruses do that. But we now know that the numbers are not very high compared to all the other health problems (including viruses) that we have to contend with, so the whole lockdown etc etc thing is unnecessary.

You can come on here defending Imperial all you like, ad nauseam, but the fact is that the government took their advice and now the country is paying the price.

158966 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to JohnMac, -2, #434 of 2160 🔗

I’m not “defending Imperial” as you put it. If I’m defending anything, its the value of mathematical modelling, which is being abused (in the two different meaning of that word).

159002 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Richard Pinch, 5, #435 of 2160 🔗

Well from what I’ve seen of it, now, under MERS and SARS, the Foot And Mouth epidemic and BSE, mathematical modelling is just shite. A bit like looking into a teacup to work out what the weather might be doing tomorrow.

159009 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Nick Rose, -2, #436 of 2160 🔗

My experience has been different to yours, clearly. But I note your clear exemplification of my comment about the two senses of the word “abused”.

159125 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Richard Pinch, 6, #437 of 2160 🔗

I think the mathematical modelling used in this pandemic has been not only useless but actually dangerous. The mistake you are making is thinking that the people who do the modelling can just stand apart from it’s political interpretation and application without any responsibility. I’ve seen it before with this academic approach. They have a complete belief in their model. If the facts contradict it then it’s just a case that the inputs were wrong or more inputs are needed. They believe that forecasting is just a matter of complexity. The model becomes an article of faith that is never wrong, just incomplete. We have peer review precisely to counter these problems of hubris, over certainty, groupthink, skewed incentives, politicisation and just bog standard incompetence. Of course that paper wasn’t peer reviewed before becoming a central tenet of lockdown policy was it?

Ferguson can merrily model all he likes but when it has such an impact on people’s lives he needs to take more responsibility than that. The assumptions need to be overt, the model should be revised frequently based on updated information and there needs to be a clear admittance right at the beginning of how much guesswork is used in the model, the interim measures by which it’s accuracy can be tested at intervals and the real margins of error if some of their assumptions turn out to be wrong. Then the government have a better chance of making a more nuanced and informed decision. Unfortunately my opinion of Ferguson from what I’ve seen is that he completely lacks humility and that is a death knell for the objectivity of his “science”.

It is not enough that the model has internal mathematical consistency. That’s just arithmetic. It needs to engage in the real world continually to have any value and I would also argue that any model which has the behaviour of people as a fundamental component is always slightly flawed. We’re not dealing with the tensile strength of steel in bridge construction here. I have a feeling that if your mathematical model showed you that the Titanic couldn’t sink you would still be arguing the case even as the water lapped around your ankles.

159161 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Achilles, -1, #438 of 2160 🔗

the people who do the modelling can just stand apart from it’s political interpretation and application

Well, that’s what SAGE is for — it’s supposed to discuss, challenge and evolve a consensus. So at SAGE 11, it adopted a Reasonable Worst Case, possibly based on Ferguson’s model, but consistent with what almost any other model based on the data known to them at the time would have estimated. Their consensus views on the data were documented in the SAGE papers at that and previous meetings.

It needs to engage in the real world continually to have any value

Perfectly valid as a statement about a scientific enterprise. But not when models are being used to inform policy decisions. The decision has to be taken, and ought to be kept under review, but cannot be postponed.

I have a feeling that if your mathematical model showed you that the Titanic couldn’t sink you would still be arguing the case even as the water lapped around your ankles.

Oh dear. While I’m happy to engage is serious discussion about science and its interaction with policy, I’m going to assume that if your argument consists of criticising me personally for your imaginary view of what I might do in some purely imaginary situation — then that means that you’ve run out of things to say that I might bother to respond to further.

159189 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnMac, replying to Richard Pinch, #439 of 2160 🔗

Nothing to do with SAGE. The modellers need to take responsibility for the implications of their own work.

As usual, Achilles is right.

159290 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to JohnMac, 1, #440 of 2160 🔗

The modellers need to take responsibility for the implications of their own work.

They need to take the right amount of responsibility. It would appear that there’s a persistent campaign to assign all the responsibility for a decision which is certainly unpopular (especially on this site) to one particular model and one particular modeller. Is that the correct level of responsibility?

Nothing to do with SAGE

Really? They are the body charged with giving advice to government on the subject, after all. Have they no responsibility in this?

159296 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #441 of 2160 🔗

I think this is the point at which I repeat my challenge.

You are seated at the table at SAGE 11. Your copy of the dossier containing what little is known about the virus is in front of you. The meeting opened with the chair telling you that the PM needs the committee’s advice that afternoon. The chair turns to you and says “Suppose we just did nothing and let people get on with it. We need to know what would happen. Could the NHS cope?” How would you answer that question? I don’t mean, by the way, what answer would you give, interesting though that might be. I mean, what processes would you go through to get from what you have — the data in front of you, the resources available to you on the day, and your accumulated knowledge and experience — to answering the PM’s question the same day?

This appears to be a scientific question, about what happens in the real world, so you could consider a process that would answer it by the “Scientific Method” which people in the columns seem to set so much store by. You might formulate a testable hypothesis, such as “The NHS can cope with mitigation and suppression but not with do-nothing” You. might then propose to perform some sort of randomised control experiment, where you divide the country, and London, into three tightly demarcated zones, in each of which you try the three main policies: laissez-faire (a la Brazil), social measures (a la Sweden), and draconian lockdown (a la Scotland). For optimal results people should be assigned randomly to the three parts. At the end of six months you count up the number of dead bodies, count the number of days the NHS was in effective operation and assess whether or not your hypothesis was confirmed or falsified by the experiment. There you are, an answer completely in accordance with the scientific method.

Except that you don’t, because it’s grossly unethical, it’s practically, legally and politically impossible, and it’s not even close to answering the question as asked. It is in fact completely useless.

So let me ask again. What do you do? What analytical or practical processes do you carry out to get you from the question to the answer sought on the day?

159349 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #442 of 2160 🔗

“Your copy of the dossier containing what little is known about the virus is in front of you”

That’s your first problem that needs solving. If that problem is not solved, then extremely poor decisions will be made.

So, our esteemed SAGE committee came to the conclusion that we can solve problem A, with strategy X (lockdown). This caused problems B, C, D (economic issues, mental health issues, social issues etc.), these were solved by strategy Y (doing nothing, since no one had bothered to model that, it was probably too complicated). This in turn caused problem C (dissent), which was solved by strategy Z (calling anyone who felt this way, regardless of whether they lost their job or had just been diagnosed with cancer after their screening was delayed by 6 months, conspiracy theorists and dangerous). Unfortunately the bureaucracy has now ran out of letters for their strategies so we’re kind of stuck with having a lockdown, a tanking economy, people refused healthcare and calling anyone who thinks this is absurd a conspiracy theorist. Probably forever.

159511 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #443 of 2160 🔗

So how would you have gone about answering the question? The data you have is the data you have. Welcome to the real world of decision making under uncertainty.

159669 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #444 of 2160 🔗

“The data you have is the data you have.”

If the data is insufficient, the data is insufficient. Get better data.

You seem to be okay with making an unprecedented and self-evidently harmful policy decision on the basis of a speculative model construced from assumptions and incompetent, un-reviewed software. It may be acceptable to make a decision that would have limited to no risk on these grounds but not when that risk will leave millions out of work and leave tens to hundreds of thousands dead.

159694 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #445 of 2160 🔗

I’m “okay” with rather little about this crisis, I suppose to much the same extent that everyone else posting here is. I’m pointing out to you what decision-making in the real world is like. “Get better data” is all very well, but that takes time, even if it’s possible.

Decisions have to be made — or if you don’t, then by default you’re taking the decision to go with the do-nothing option. And that’s the point. On 26 February, how would you have assessed that option?

It’s OK to say you don’t know, or you could have done it but not in the time allowed, if you like. But saying you don’t like the question is to cop out.

159943 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Richard Pinch, #446 of 2160 🔗

Why do you presume I know nothing of the real world? I’m pointing out that is the exact problem you have. You’ve made a series of decisions based on assumptions and poor data and then complain it was the only option.That’s also a cop out.


160098 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Cicatriz, #447 of 2160 🔗

I presume nothing about your knowledge of the real world. What I observe is that you’re not answering the question.

I don’t know what you’re referring to by my “series of decisions”. I’m not on SAGE …

160561 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Richard Pinch, #448 of 2160 🔗

You’re question is ludicrous:

  1. A decision must be made immediately because this is the way the real world works and
  2. If the data is rubbish tough
  3. If the approach has unknown consequences tough

I’m telling you this is exactly why we’re in a mess. When a proces is so flawed that it hasn’t even evaluated the consequences of a solution to problem that is poorly understood will effect terrible results.

Attempting to establish an elaborate false dilema by which the only option looks to me like little more than pinning the tail on the donkey then the circumstances that have been contrived are the problem.

‘You’ is objective, but I’m probably sub-consciously applying them to you as you seem to be hell bent on defending the process and actors involved.

160652 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Cicatriz, #449 of 2160 🔗

Not hell-bent, but I do know a little about these matters, and a few of the people involved.

I don’t accept that it’s ludicrous to suppose that decision-makers may find themselves in a position where they have to make decisions before all the data is in and before they have been able to evaluate all the consequences of all their actions. You may not like it, but it happens.

If you find that unpalatable, then all you have to do is say that under those circumstances you would refuse to take a decision. Of course, that is taking a decision, by default.

159713 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #450 of 2160 🔗

However, in the interests of scientific endeavour, let’s pursue this one step further. Suppose that you could, somehow, have had whatever data you wanted about Covid on 26 February, in order to answer the question. What data would you have asked for, and how would it have helped you to answer the question?

159367 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnMac, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #451 of 2160 🔗

Imperial’s advice should have been thrown in the bin on day one. It doesn’t matter how many trillion words you emit, nothing changes that simple fact.

159513 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to JohnMac, 1, #452 of 2160 🔗

So your first step towards answering the question is to throw away one of your papers. What would you have done next?

159595 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnMac, replying to Richard Pinch, #453 of 2160 🔗

No, I did not say it would have been my first step. I would done several things at the start, in what order I have no idea.

To establish what measures could be taken to protect the elderly.

To try and establish when the virus actually got here.

To get advice from a range of different experts re the virus. As we now know, they did not all agree.

To estimate the damage that would be done by a lockdown. One week, two weeks, etc.

To establish under what parameters (economy, deaths etc) it would be reasonable to end the lockdown.

All of these were obvious at the time.

Then, and only then, would I have decided whether to have a lockdown.

159657 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to JohnMac, 1, #454 of 2160 🔗

None of those is an answer to the question, which was, to remind you

“Suppose we just did nothing and let people get on with it. We need to know what would happen. Could the NHS cope?”

What processes would you go through to get from what you have — the data in front of you, the resources available to you on the day, and your accumulated knowledge and experience — to answering that question the same day?

159672 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Richard Pinch, #455 of 2160 🔗

You really do enjoy question begging don’t you

159696 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #456 of 2160 🔗

I’m challenging all the people who claim to know how much better they knew than SAGE, or Ferguson, or myself come to that, to explain how they would have gone about answering one simple question, one of many that SAGE had to answer.

159971 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnMac, replying to Richard Pinch, #457 of 2160 🔗

As I said, I would have taken measures to protect the elderly. I would not have “done nothing”. Also, I would not have moved anyone out of hospital until the Nightingale hospitals were full. What would be the point?

And the government had three years to ensure that the NHS could cope. Johnson had nine months. Not enough time?

160106 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to JohnMac, #458 of 2160 🔗

These recommendations, however sensible they may or may not be, are not in any real sense an answer to the question “Suppose we just did nothing and let people get on with it. We need to know what would happen. Could the NHS cope?” or an explanation of how to answer it.

160564 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Richard Pinch, #459 of 2160 🔗

It’s a shame nobody asked the question “what are the consequences of shutting down society for 3 weeks, 6 months, 1 year, indefinitely?”

I know you really don’t want anyone to consider that doing nothing is an option without understanding its consequences but you’re really not interested in addressing the consequences of doing something.

Personally, I’d rather do nothing without knowing the consequences than doing something without knowing the consequences. However, my preference would be to know the consequences of all, or as many as possible, of the available options.

160655 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Cicatriz, #460 of 2160 🔗

Personally, I’d rather do nothing without knowing the consequences than doing something without knowing the consequences.

That’s a perfectly legitimate position, and I’m happy to accept that it is what you would do. As I said, it is a decision, and it has consequences, and provided you’re happy to take whatever degree of responsibility goes with the consequences, that’s perfectly sound. But it is, I submit, equally legitimate to say that you would rather do what seemed best at the time provided you’re happy to take whatever degree of responsibility goes with the consequences

159006 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Richard Pinch, 5, #461 of 2160 🔗

Lockdown has an effect.No one is disputing that.Stopping people from interacting will stop connections.But there are massive flaws with it as a policy.
Collateral damage;how many deaths did the lockdown cause.
Economic damage.how much does this policy cost and is it worth it.
How do you come out of it if the virus is still about.
The only sensible policy was to strengthen the NHS,protect the vulnerable and let everyone go about their normal lives.
This is still the only way

158841 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Richard Pinch, 10, #462 of 2160 🔗

Let’s just start from basics. To which this paper is just an addendum – not essential evidence.

Step back

The accepted ‘scientific method’ depends upon the stating of hypotheses, then testing them against the evidence.

Unless there is clear support for a hypothesis in terms of probability, then the null hypothesis stands.

As an adjunct to this principle, in assessing a medical ‘treatment’, benefit has to outweigh harm in an objective, observable way. The greater the harm, the greater the required benefit required (see chemotherapy).

On both counts, the ‘treatments’ of lockdown,, mask wearing, and other serious erosions of democratic civil liberties fall. They are measures where the null hypothesis still stands after assessing all the evidence now available.

In medical terms, we also irrefutably know the harms as being totally disproportionate for a quotidian moderate viral infection that also shows all signs of having burned itself out. Even including the peak incidence, this virus shows no evidence at all of ‘unprecedented’ effects in terms of mortality. In terms of harm, the unknowns of rushed viruses pose a far more probable detriment.

That is the case – arguing about Ferguson’s or any other’s theoretical modelling is an irrelevancy (although we do now know that the original was absolutely crap modelling in the usual Imperial style).

Let’s talk about evidence rather than models.

158856 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to RickH, 1, #463 of 2160 🔗

Isn’t testing a single hypothesis different from modelling to produce a range of possible outcomes, which can then be reduced to upper and lower levels of likelihood, as the real life data emerges over time? I don’t see how the ‘null hypothesis’ fits into the latter scenario.

158936 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Bruno, 1, #464 of 2160 🔗

It’s still assuming we can be confident in the validity of the model’s ‘confidence’. Having looked at the code (the MS refined version, no less, they’re still too embarressed to disclose the original) and inferring their developing processes (or lack thereof), I can have no confidence in its results.

158956 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to RickH, #465 of 2160 🔗

There are four related things under discussion here. Scientific experimentation; medical treatment; statistical analysis and public policy-making. They are not all done in the same way.

In Popper’s view of the Scientific Method, scientific hypotheses are put forward for falsification, rather than confirmation, of course. The Null Hypothesis belongs to statistical decision-making, a part of both science and medicine. The corresponding concept in policy is the do-nothing option.

The Precautionary Principle is not the same as the Null Hypothesis or the Do-nothing policy. For example, if a patient presents with a headache, it is far more likely to be a headache than a brain tumour. The null hypothesis is probably that it is a headache. The do-nothing option would be, well literally I suppose to do nothing and wait, or more likely in context to prescribe paracetamol and wait. What would the Precautionary Principle be? Would it not be to make further investigations? (I don’t mean, immediately anaesthetise and open up the skull, of course). It seems to me that you’re equating things that are rather different.

158985 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to RickH, 1, #466 of 2160 🔗

“Data, data, data; I cannot make bricks without clay.”

Evidence is the ONLY thing that counts. Everything else is pissing against the wind.

158880 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Richard Pinch, 9, #467 of 2160 🔗

“Another possible explanation is that the infectivity or susceptibility of the population is not homogenous.”

It is not a possibility. It has always been a cast-iron 100% certainty.
There has probably never been a pathogen in history to which all the population are equally susceptible.
At the most obvious level, in case you hadn’t noticed, mortality varies by age…

“This can hardly be considered a foundation for a conclusive judgement about policies.”

It’s probably the only sane one.
The Imperial ‘model’ was based on the crazy assumption of homogeneic susceptibility. Certain to be wrong and patently ridiculous.

The Gomes work is exactly that; a foundation on which to build further research which can inform future policy.
It will never happen, if the WHO and the CDC have anything to do with it..
Can you see Fauci commissioning research that is likely to find out that many populations (certainly all of Europe and most of N. America) have T-cell immunity at about 80% or higher?
Look at the barely suppressed anger he displayed, when it was perfectly reasonably suggested that the HIT had been reached or was near to being reached in the US.

Majority immunity and a virus that has lost its virulence, are the two truths that must be suppressed at all costs.

158925 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Kevin 2, -2, #468 of 2160 🔗

The question is not so much whether the population is heterogeneous, since as you say we know perfectly well that it is, but the extent to which a population-level model can give us useful qualitative or quantitative insights into epidemic behaviour. You think it’s patently ridiculous to suppose that it does. Well, that’s your opinion, but not everyone agrees with that. Models based on segmenting the population and assigning a multiplicity of parameters for their various interactions are precisely the sorts of model that the Imperial group have been working on, but you don’t seem to like those either.

159322 ▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Richard Pinch, #469 of 2160 🔗

You’re referring to them modelling heterogeneity of interactions, Kevin is referring to modelling heterogeneous susceptibility. I actually made the same mistake when I first read his post and then did a double take and realised I fully agreed with him. The pre-print addresses this specific point directly.

159348 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Tee Ell, 1, #470 of 2160 🔗

Indeed, as I said in my original post

In fact, a point of the preprint is to show that the two reasons, intrinsic and behavioural susceptibility, are modelled in exactly the same way.

159387 ▶▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #471 of 2160 🔗

There was never any need for a model. By the date of the lockdown there was enough real world data on which to guide the policy. It was or should have been apparent by then that the virus was deadly to a tiny minority of people.

Something else is behind these lockdown policies.

159504 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to charleyfarley, #472 of 2160 🔗

If you look elsewhere on this page you’ll see my challenge to readers on what they would have said at SAGE 11 on 26 February

You are seated at the table at SAGE 11. Your copy of the dossier containing what little is known about the virus is in front of you. The meeting opened with the chair telling you that the PM needs the committee’s advice that afternoon. The chair turns to you and says “Suppose we just did nothing and let people get on with it. We need to know what would happen. Could the NHS cope?” How would you answer that question? I don’t mean, by the way, what answer would you give, interesting though that might be. I mean, what processes would you go through to get from what you have — the data in front of you, the resources available to you on the day, and your accumulated knowledge and experience — to answering the PM’s question the same day?

158972 ▶▶▶ JohnMac, replying to Kevin 2, #473 of 2160 🔗

This is useful stuff. Thank you.

158882 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Richard Pinch, 3, #474 of 2160 🔗

Perhaps interestng in this twitter short thread by Gomes,for what it is worth, defending her model and discrading the homologous model


158885 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 1, #475 of 2160 🔗


159141 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to swedenborg, #476 of 2160 🔗

Thanks for that.

158910 ▶▶ jakehadlee, replying to Richard Pinch, 8, #477 of 2160 🔗

Surely the overarching problem is governments are relying on a totally unreliable science. There is little to no evidence that epidemic modelling works in any meaningful way, and it is becoming increasingly clear that it is a science in its infancy and very much a work-in-progress.

The calls to “listen to the science” – even if “the science” was consistent on this, which it is far from – are all very well. But at the moment the best science we have on it is no different to the best science of the Jacobean era when they searched out miasmas and used posies of herbs to fend it off. It was the best science at the time, and they were roughly right – bad smells correlate to lack of hygiene – but like the current modellers they didn’t know what they didn’t know and had no way of knowing it.

That’s the position we are in. The science of modelling isn’t good enough to do this job, and the scientists behind it don’t understand their own ignorance. Yet it is being treated as though it some unfettered truth because it is “science”.

158922 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to jakehadlee, 4, #478 of 2160 🔗

I’ve said it before, but I really think modelling is engineering and not science. It may be used as part of the scientific process by feeding observations back into the system but ultimately it is a man made artefact.

158962 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to jakehadlee, 2, #479 of 2160 🔗

Government is certainly claiming to rely on “the science”. I have to admit to some concern that this may be the prelude to blaming “the science” or indeed the scientists is things don’t go well.

159084 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Richard Pinch, 6, #480 of 2160 🔗

Hard to have much sympathy when so many senior scientists have actively encouraged the setting up of “The Science” as justification, and shouting down dissenting science as “dangerous” (vid Richard Horton, and many others).

Scientists collectively need to clean their own house if they expect to avoid blame, by making it clear that the practices we have seen: suppressing dissent, holding peer review of publications advocating dissenting positions to “higher standards of proof”, and calling the opinions of respectable academics “dangerous”, is unacceptable behaviour in any scientist, and should be grounds for dismissal in the editor of any supposedly scientific journal.

159162 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Mark, 2, #481 of 2160 🔗


“The Science” is apparently forgetting the very principles that underpin science.

159334 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #482 of 2160 🔗

I think the whole thing has a predetermined POLITICAL goal, and science is merely being used as a pretext to validate this.

Science and scientific debate can be manipulated in many ways.

Most of the medical journals are now owned by big pharma, for example.

159705 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Mark, 1, #483 of 2160 🔗

Thinking about this more, I think the scientific community, or at least academia, has descended into what Jerry Pournelle describes as the iron law of bureaucracy: “In any bureaucracy, the people devoted to the benefit of the bureaucracy itself always get in control and those dedicated to the goals the bureaucracy is supposed to accomplish have less and less influence, and sometimes are eliminated entirely”
Unions are a good example.

I think “The Science” is effectively a catch-all for the subsection of academia that sees their goal as increased political prominence, presumably by technocratic rule. At the very least it’s an increase in opportunity to earn more money through various government roles.

Those scientists who disagree are described dangerous. They are dangerous to this cause.

158748 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #484 of 2160 🔗

‘I have to say it’s very disorienting reading the Telegraph at the moment. Almost all the comment is of an outspoken, sceptical flavourbut the news section seems to be colonised by lockdown zealots.’

Disorienting used to be called journalism.
What you and most other seem to want us an echo chamber.
Anyway, count yourself lucky.
The UK is the only major country where at least one major MSM outlet allows for and publishes the critical viewpoints and doesn’t censor such comments.
It’s much bleaker everywhere else.

158769 ▶▶ JohnMac, replying to Jay Berger, 3, #485 of 2160 🔗

What we want is rational debate, actually. But what’s happening is hard to justify in any rational way. Hence our disdain for those supporting these measures.

158756 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #486 of 2160 🔗

Liverpool mayor on radio news now, saying “We are heading to figures that wouldn’t have been lost on us [sic] in March or April”.

Gotta love that local lockdown. Crush. Crash. Ignore.

158805 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #487 of 2160 🔗

It insane,people at this level wouldn’t be part of any conspiracy but here they are begging to be locked up again.I think a lot of these minor politicians are starring in their own movie

159034 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #488 of 2160 🔗

I’m sure you can find some loony who can manage to work it into some conspiracy theory or other. Before you know where you are, 1855% of the UK’s population will be in on it. Or something.

159275 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #489 of 2160 🔗

He’s an Evertonian, we mustn’t mock the afflicted.

159628 ▶▶▶ Polemon2, replying to JohnB, #490 of 2160 🔗

Well he will, of course, have been influenced by the huge spike the spike that was expected after the Pier Head crowds celebrating Liverpool’s Premiership win.


158757 nickbowes, replying to nickbowes, 5, #491 of 2160 🔗

My 9 year old is delighted that she is starting Girl Guides this week ! Really, that s great I say !! It s through zoom Dad.
Tomorrow night she does “actual not virtual” football training which i`m very surprised about considering we are in the plague hotspot of rural Durham.
Football ! well indeed, our local northern league seems to be up and running and with spectators (up to 300).

158765 ▶▶ Biggles, replying to nickbowes, #492 of 2160 🔗

No spectators allowed at Darlo in National League North.

158775 ▶▶▶ nickbowes, replying to Biggles, #493 of 2160 🔗

I know, they were to go back to the Reynolds Arena. Seems the leagues below are ok for now… You could always watch the R.A !!

158959 ▶▶▶ Andy C, replying to Biggles, #494 of 2160 🔗

The problem is that National League football is considered “elite sport” by the regime, despite the fact that many teams are part-time.

158766 annie, replying to annie, 13, #495 of 2160 🔗

Suffering from hysterical giggles after reading the full list of 172 symptoms of Long Covid:


I’m sure hysterical giggling us in there somewhere, but I didn’t get that far before succumbing.

158780 ▶▶ annie, replying to annie, 8, #496 of 2160 🔗

PS. Reminds me irresistibly of J., in Three Men in a Boat , discovering that he has every ailment in the Medical Encyclopaedia with the exception of housemaid’s knee.

158781 ▶▶ Tommo, replying to annie, 2, #497 of 2160 🔗

My favourite is chin swelling. What the flying feck is chin swelling?!

158789 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Tommo, #498 of 2160 🔗

Caused by grease melting under your face nappy and running down into your chin.

159940 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Tommo, #499 of 2160 🔗

I think I had ” covid toe”

158783 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to annie, 3, #500 of 2160 🔗

The more they claim Sweden locked down and the effects of long covid, the more its obvious their narrative is falling apart

159047 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to steve_w, 1, #501 of 2160 🔗

Great isn’t it? My shares in popcorn are shooting up.

158786 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to annie, 6, #502 of 2160 🔗

If ‘Long Covid’, aka ‘here is another scare story to keep the narrative going until Alex Crawford finds an emergency ward with lots of younger people being intubated’, actually exists, wouldn’t that render the upcoming challenge trials for the Oxford and ICL vaccines wholly unethical? A question for Devi, Boris, Hancock and Vallance

158798 ▶▶▶ Nic, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #503 of 2160 🔗

Its scaremongering. Like an expert saying this 2nd wave was hitting female under 30s hard no figures stats etc lies only!

158933 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #504 of 2160 🔗

A clear sign it’s spin. Once the same logic is applied to another context the argument appears ridiculous

158788 ▶▶ Lyra Silvertongue, replying to annie, 3, #505 of 2160 🔗

‘Requiring reading glasses’
There’s the conspiracy! It’s those dastardly opticians who’ve cooked this up!

158794 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to annie, 2, #506 of 2160 🔗

Well it seems clear that every single one of us will be told we have Long Covid by the end of the ear. There is simply no escape.

158801 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Charlie Blue, 6, #507 of 2160 🔗

“end of the ear”. It’s got you already!

158804 ▶▶▶ JohnMac, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #508 of 2160 🔗

Well, if we’ve all got it, then we don’t need the vaccine.

158795 ▶▶ Lyra Silvertongue, replying to annie, 2, #509 of 2160 🔗

‘Trouble trying to form words’
That has been a symptom of my local dialect for generations.

158797 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to annie, 7, #510 of 2160 🔗

Good job we don’t have Long Cancer, Long Motor Neurone Disease, Long Back Pain, Long Amputation Long Allergies or anything like that, then.

158816 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #511 of 2160 🔗

Just looked at the list. Seems anytime I saw up some firewood, have a hot curry or go for a run, I get Long Covid. Who knew?

158829 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Sam Vimes, #512 of 2160 🔗

Why can’t I have long dick or more to the point why can’t my OH have a long dick, fortunately my sense of humour makes up for it

158802 ▶▶ leggy, replying to annie, 1, #513 of 2160 🔗

“Stool colour changes”

Terrifying !

158904 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to leggy, 3, #514 of 2160 🔗

Particularly dangerous to stool pigeons.

158806 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to annie, 3, #515 of 2160 🔗

Vibrations inside the body

But are they Beach Boys approved good vibrations?

158932 ▶▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to zacaway, 1, #516 of 2160 🔗

No – Ann Summers. Compensation for the lack of OH’s long….

158813 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to annie, 8, #517 of 2160 🔗

Nightime weird sensations eg, feeling frightened

I got that after watching Boris threaten to set the Army on us to enforce his arbitrary dictates.

158823 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to annie, 2, #518 of 2160 🔗

So someone who gets a positive test and has to self-isolate reports feeling “isolated” and “lonely”, so this must attributed to Covid, not the self-isolation policy. We have truely entered the post-rational future.

158834 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to annie, 3, #519 of 2160 🔗

Low oxygen levels

More likely from obsessive mask wearing.

158860 ▶▶ Suitejb, replying to annie, 2, #520 of 2160 🔗

Surely this is not a serious list. Someone’s cobbled it together from an old book of medical symptoms! My favourites are Frustration and Needing Reading Glasses. Apparently I’ve had long COVID for years!

159212 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Suitejb, #521 of 2160 🔗

I’ve worn specs since I was 11 !

158883 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to annie, #522 of 2160 🔗

Someone’s been playing with the medical dictionary

158916 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to annie, 3, #523 of 2160 🔗

Scaly skin

David Icke was right!

159041 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to annie, #524 of 2160 🔗

Sound like a load of malingerers to me.

159055 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #525 of 2160 🔗

Malingering is symptom no. 173.

159116 ▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to annie, 3, #526 of 2160 🔗

I’m pleased to see that ‘brain fog’ has finally been recognised as a medical condition. Many of us have been suffering silently for years. At last the cause of my mediocrity has a name.

159153 ▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to annie, 4, #527 of 2160 🔗

Belching and flatulence: Sounds like life as normal for me then 😉

159198 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, 1, #528 of 2160 🔗

Jesus wept.

Is this for real?

Reads more like a hypochondriac’s charter.

158777 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #529 of 2160 🔗

Picture of Bojo: “And you thought the builders who did your extension were Cowboys”
PS I wonder if he “sports” a builder’s cleavage?

158815 ▶▶ Badgerman, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #530 of 2160 🔗

Is that part of his retraining?

158828 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Badgerman, #531 of 2160 🔗

Why?, are you going to offer him a job?, after all he’s got a couple of ex wives and ” how many children to support”

159040 ▶▶▶▶ Badgerman, replying to Fingerache Philip., #532 of 2160 🔗

Nah. I don’t need a brickie. Just thinking of his future when he joins the dole queue….

158830 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Fingerache Philip., #533 of 2160 🔗

He always thought he was another Churchill, who spent his retirement building a wall at his home Chartwell, and did a good job at it

158852 ▶▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #534 of 2160 🔗

Johnson is indeed inspired by Churchill. Unfortunately he misremembers Churchill’s famous line as “Keep buggering up”.

158931 ▶▶▶ Alan P, replying to Dan Clarke, #535 of 2160 🔗

Bojo is a Churchill. Unfortunately for us it’s the one from the 1950’s not the 1940’s!

158986 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Alan P, 1, #536 of 2160 🔗

Or from the Gallipoli campaign

158791 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 9, #537 of 2160 🔗

1m dead WITH covid, 7.6 billion survive, thank goodness for hand sanitizer

158865 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #538 of 2160 🔗

1m out of the 60m that die each year worldwide


158870 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Major Panic, #539 of 2160 🔗


158876 ▶▶▶ jrsm, replying to Major Panic, #540 of 2160 🔗

Of those 60M, about 30M are killed by H. pylori.

160130 ▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to jrsm, #541 of 2160 🔗

It appears not:
Helicobacter pylori infection is the underlying cause of noncardia gastric cancer , the second commonest cause of death from cancer in the world, it is also responsible for deaths from peptic ulcer. Gastric cancer and peptic ulcer together cause more than a million deaths per year worldwide.’

158793 zacaway, replying to zacaway, 15, #542 of 2160 🔗

Just got this missive from my 14yo’s school. He is sick of having to wear a mask for much of the day (not in class, but pretty much everywhere else – including on the bus).

Dear Parent/Carer

We have been made aware of a number of students who use school transport who are not wearing their face coverings for the full duration of the journey. Messages have been given to the students to ensure that they understand the importance of protecting all those who travel on the buses by wearing their face covering, but a small minority are continuing to remove their covering for some or most of the journey.

[The] School are not responsible for school transport and our staff do not travel on the buses. The drivers are not in a position to police the wearing of face coverings and so we are trusting the students to ensure that they are doing all they can to protect themselves and others. Please would you help us to reinforce this message by reminding your child of their responsibility to look after themselves and others by wearing their face covering from the moment they get onto the bus all the way through to only removing it when they have disembarked.

Unless they have a medical exemption, students who do not wear their face covering throughout the journey may be given a warning by the bus company and, following that, be refused travel if they are caught again. We very much hope that the students will work with us and the bus companies to keep everyone as safe as possible.

These are school buses, for only school children (plus bus driver). The CDC recently released updated IFR by age group – for under 20 year olds, the infection fatality rate for Covid-19 is 0.00003%. These kids are far more likely to be killed in a bus crash than by Covid. Madness.

158825 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to zacaway, 12, #543 of 2160 🔗

Getting fucking stupid now, the students seem to be more mature and intelligent than the teachers

158893 ▶▶ jb12, replying to zacaway, #544 of 2160 🔗

There appears to be a miscalculation there, I don’t think that is the infection fatality rate – the decimal places are too far to the left.

159425 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to jb12, #545 of 2160 🔗

The UK Column corrected the errors in the image. Middle column no %’s and other corrections. The general meaning was unaltered but the graphic has errors within it.

158921 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to zacaway, #546 of 2160 🔗

Unfortunately, the way a few of these drivers roll, it is a real danger.

158937 ▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to zacaway, 9, #547 of 2160 🔗

What utter guff! I would be having a word with the principal. It is child abuse. I have just retired from a school. There are no masks being worn by staff or students in a school of 1000 students. Not one child or staff member has had a positive test. If it is a school bus why do they need to mask up when they are in a class together unmasked. It is absolute nonsense.

159051 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Girl down Under, 2, #548 of 2160 🔗

Sadly I actually know what their reasoning is – each year group has been defined as a separate “bubble” – hence it is “safe” for them to sit in a class together without masks (same year group / bubble). However, different year groups shared the same bus, hence they need masks to protect against cross-bubble contamination.

Interestingly, the staff get to make their own rules – some teachers don’t wear masks (but have to keep their distance from the kids) others (the bedwetters) are donning both masks, visors and a plastic shield (for good measure).

All bollocks, obviously, but you can’t argue with this mindset.

159086 ▶▶▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to zacaway, 1, #549 of 2160 🔗

Thanks for the explanation zacaway. It seems so OTT.

160238 ▶▶ Splendid Acres, replying to zacaway, #550 of 2160 🔗

Ah, the drivers can’t police, but they can give out warnings and even refuse travel to unaccompanied minors.

158821 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 5, #551 of 2160 🔗

Looking at some old propaganda posters, things have never changed, the rhetoric is the same only now we receive it in a different way. Just shows the mentality doesn’t change that much, they took my grannies garden rails for the ‘war effort’ and at the end they were all found in a dump in the town

158958 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #552 of 2160 🔗

That cut down your railing thing to help build tanks or ships or whatever for the war effort. What a scandal that was. Beautiful victorian iron work cut away from just about every house and building in the land, and NONE OF IT USED AT ALL. The scars of that folly still evident everywhere.

158840 Steeve, 11, #553 of 2160 🔗

Well today on the street – Armageddon- In Supermarket Less so! Staff obviously pissed off – lots of not wearing of mask correctly and two others unmasked. No funny looks etc just left alone to get on with my shopping. If it wasn’t for the oppressive feel it would have been quite pleasant!

158842 swedenborg, 2, #554 of 2160 🔗


COVID-19: All the wrong moves in all the wrong places
A controversial article. Perhaps not agree with everything but many thought provoking gems.

 “Although the clinical pathways approach to care is a highly efficient and useful mechanism for ensuring standard-of-care treatment for well-studied diseases, it fails miserably when confronting a new disease like COVID-19. Consequently, many of our young physicians, uncomfortable without a guiding pathway document in front of them, now feel intellectually unmoored in the current pandemic, further contributing to their stress.”
“Perhaps we might try to study the enemy in depth to discern its weaknesses, signaling and otherwise, before resorting to a series of rigid guidelines based, at this point, on the opinions of self-designated experts in the absence of any solid scientific foundation. Now is the time to devote ourselves to studying the science of this new disease and not just use PCR and antibody-based diagnostics to try and run away from it.”

158843 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 13, #555 of 2160 🔗

Can we have this picture up from now on? It might stops me getting cold sweats and creeping nausea every day when I see the original photo.

158902 ▶▶ annie, replying to Two-Six, 3, #556 of 2160 🔗


158905 ▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to Two-Six, 4, #557 of 2160 🔗

Oh, that is so pretty, Two-Six. Well done.

159026 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Two-Six, 5, #558 of 2160 🔗

Agree. Masked people pictures are a real turn off

158844 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 6, #559 of 2160 🔗

Picking up on recent discussions I was musing on immunity. If someone has a good immune response and is capable of fighting off Covid, can they still have enough of the virus in them to give a +ve test result even though their body is effectively fighting off the virus? Indeed is that what’s happening with asymptomatic cases?

158848 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Steve Martindale, #560 of 2160 🔗

I’ve asked that a couple of times and never get an answer so I assume no one knows

158858 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Steve Martindale, 5, #561 of 2160 🔗

I would assume so if the cycles are increased, if a papaya and a goat can test positive anything and anybody can

158862 ▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to Steve Martindale, 4, #562 of 2160 🔗

As far as i can understand, yes. The PCR tests used will pick up on RNA detritus from the virus. So even if your body rips the virus to shreds, if those shreds make it unto the test swab, it will lead to a positive test, even though you cannot infect anyone.

158900 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 4, #563 of 2160 🔗

This whole scam is dependent on a not fit for purpose PCR test and the illusion that asymptomatic people can infect people

158851 Tommo, replying to Tommo, 45, #564 of 2160 🔗

Went into town yesterday and I have to confess that I took a facemask in my bag. I needed to go the bank, the post-office and pick up a few groceries (M&S was nearest). I already had it in my head that I was going to bottle it and put my mask on, especially in the post office where I imagined they were going to be stricter on enforcing usage. But I decided to go unmasked and just see what happened. First, the bank – no problem. Second M&S – no problem. Third the Post Office – no problem. In fact the Post Office was very friendly, and all staff were unmasked and atmosphere perfectly pleasant. Glad I got over my little wobble. But I do resent having to feel like a bio-hazard/criminal every time I just want to go into a shop or any building. There were lots and lots of people outside wearing masks – the most I have seen – and a lot of them in the 20-40 year age group. All a bit depressing.

158873 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to Tommo, 4, #565 of 2160 🔗

Great report!

158875 ▶▶ Derek, replying to Tommo, 6, #566 of 2160 🔗

Sweep the self guilt away Tommo – it’s all in the head. Stand proud.

159191 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Derek, 3, #567 of 2160 🔗

I would go even further: Enjoy it!

158899 ▶▶ annie, replying to Tommo, 6, #568 of 2160 🔗

Just don’t go near a church service. Supposing you wanted to.
They don’t worship Gid any more, they worship Covid. And the Covid god hates faces.

158928 ▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to annie, 2, #569 of 2160 🔗

Not in my church.

158963 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Londo Mollari, 1, #570 of 2160 🔗

I envy you!

159734 ▶▶▶ Lili, replying to annie, #571 of 2160 🔗

Indeed, Ann. They have a new god, now.

159024 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Tommo, 18, #572 of 2160 🔗

I hate that everyday acts like just going to the local shop have now been turned into a political action with potential criminal consequences. Not surprised so many people just conform – it is stressful thinking about how far to push the boundaries every time I go out.

159050 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to zacaway, 11, #573 of 2160 🔗

Very true.Simple pleasures, and even shopping for necessities, have been poisoned.
Get tough. Think of every excursion as an act of resistance. And look for the unhappy people in shops etc. who clearly loathe the whole ghastly set up, but are forced to go along with it, not believing a word of the twaddle that’s poured into their ears. A smile from a person with a face, a complicit word, can really cheer them up.

159277 ▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to annie, 1, #574 of 2160 🔗

Agree with the need to sympathize with shop staff. I take flowers from my garden for staff when I can.
I also have taken to stating that it’s all unnecessary at any opportunity.

159068 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to zacaway, 6, #575 of 2160 🔗

Yep, you are now a dissident in a totalitarian regime

159716 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Tommo, 2, #576 of 2160 🔗

Good on you, Tommo. I find it exhausting having to psyche myself up for a shopping trip so I do them very rarely these days. I’ve never had a problem not having a gag over my mouth but as we never know what difference the new fascist diktats will make to the next retail experience I can never assume my next trip to the same shop will be okay. I hate this government with an intensity I cannot put into words.

158855 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 5, #577 of 2160 🔗

Oh Boris, what has become of you?
He was supposed to be a breath of fresh air. After leftist governments, here was Boris, coming along with his Britishness to set things straight. A good ol’ boy. All smoke and mirrors. And what do we get instead? A wet noodle. He’s completely lost and clueless. Much as it was with Brexit, when everyone finally got the deal they wanted they found the well poisoned. Such a crying shame.

158881 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 6, #578 of 2160 🔗

He’s always been lost and clueless in my view.

I watched London Assembly meetings before he became PM – not only is he incompetent but he very effectively nullifies any good work done by people around him.

158892 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Cristi.Neagu, -1, #579 of 2160 🔗

After leftist governments”

What a load of bollocks – the right of centre has been in government since 1980. (Unless your definitions come out of the Fascist’s dictionary).

158896 ▶▶▶ JohnMac, replying to RickH, 2, #580 of 2160 🔗

Mass immigration is right of centre, is it?

158920 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to JohnMac, -2, #581 of 2160 🔗

Can be – we imported the monarchy from Germany 🙂

Serious answer – it has no determining relevance at all to overall political description.

158926 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to RickH, 5, #582 of 2160 🔗

It has huge relevance. Conservatives in general are, by definition, trying to maintain the status quo. Importing a huge number of people, with vastly different cultural norms in a lot of cases, upending the way things are, is the complete opposite of the status quo.

158978 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnMac, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 1, #583 of 2160 🔗


159037 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 2, #584 of 2160 🔗

And we know that that was explicitly part of the motivation for the Blairite policy of opening the floodgates, which the numbers prove no “Conservative” government since has managed to close, since that intentional act of national self-harm was perpetrated.

159066 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Mark, 2, #585 of 2160 🔗

The aim was tho transform the country and ‘rub the rights nose in diversity’ to quote a blairite

159112 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Cristi.Neagu, -1, #586 of 2160 🔗

This country is built on immigration. You can argue about the detail and quantity, but we’re all mongrels and immigrants – even those of us whose family residence here probably goes back to the iron age.

The best way to keep things ‘as they are’ is to retire to the grave.

159197 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 2, #587 of 2160 🔗

This country is built on immigration. You can argue about the detail and quantity, but we’re all mongrels and immigrants – even those of us whose family residence here probably goes back to the iron age .”

This is the Official Truth dogma, believed by most because of systematic indoctrination over a long period. But it’s obvious nonsense – a cynical abuse of the term “immigrant”. The reality is that within the past thousand years for certain, the immigration since 1997 has been unprecedented, with no previous period even coming close.

And the point about immigration is that it is always a numbers game. Individual immigrants can be fine, or they can be scum, just like indigenes, but when there is mass immigration it is almost invariably harmful to the target society and people.

159206 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Mark, #588 of 2160 🔗

Well said

159291 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Mark, #589 of 2160 🔗

It is economic migration, – to push wages and conditions down for the resident population. And done for that purpose.

Bringing race in is a diversionary tactic.

159328 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Kate, #590 of 2160 🔗

It is economic migration, – to push wages and conditions down for the resident population. And done for that purpose .”

That is certainly one of the reasons why certain interest groups have back mass immigration. But it doesn’t exhaust the class of motivations for pushing mass immigration, as other comments here have highlighted.

Bringing race in is a diversionary tactic .”

I didn’t “bring race in” here, of course, and indeed bringing race in is usually a diversionary suppressive tactic by advocates of mass immigration, accusing those who oppose their radicalism of being “racist”, with all the baggage that discredited smear term carries with it.

That isn’t to say, of course, that propaganda bollocks such as “there is no such thing as race” has any truth to it.

If “racism” means just acknowledging that race exists and is relevant to many discussions, then racism is not a bad thing, just simple truth, and many (perhaps most) accept it as that.

If on the other hand “racism” is actually hating people of other races just for being such, then it is a profoundly unpleasant position, that is actually pretty rare, and almost none of those routinely smeared as “racist” these days are actually such..

The problem is “antiracists” try to have it both ways, conflating racism with racial hatred.

159205 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to RickH, 5, #591 of 2160 🔗

As a former Immigration Officer, let me say that concern about continuing mass migration is entirely legitimate, even more so now that we face a truly drastic recession, with the prospect of many hundreds of thousands losing work, incomes ,prospects, educational opportunities and hope for the future.

Add to this the rapid growth of automation and AI.

To say that we’re all mongrels is a standard trope for shutting down any opposition to open borders,which cannot just be nodded through by suppressing any and every form of dissent.

Shouty denunciations by the left do nothing to address the scale of the social changes which now bewilder so many people.

The UK has been generous for the past 60 years or more in welcoming folk from across the world, but we cannot, and should not, be expected to be saddled with an unjustifiable sense of obligation to maintain an open house.

Having done the job for several years, I can tell you that internal controls are ineffectual at best, non existent at worst.

To maintain trust and harmony, the public must have belief in the system: well, we see that vanishing before our eyes.

Society is already struggling with an unprecedented loss of basic freedoms and draconian nonsensical rules,which change by the day.

To allow mass migration to continue unchallenged and unchecked by a government which seemingly sanctions illegal arrivals while depriving the rest of us of even the chance to stage legitimate protests against the covid madness is, frankly, bonkers and irresponsible.

Lest I be denounced as an unreconstructed backward looking fascist, let me say that one of my main worries now is the likely prospect of food rationing and widespread fuel poverty,adding to the burdens already unfairly borne by those doing the poorly paid work which is keeping us all going.

Austerity and worse await, if this lunacy doesn’t end soon. Why add to the catastrophe imposed by the despots who’ve taken over the asylum?

160167 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to wendyk, #592 of 2160 🔗

‘The UK has been generous for the past 60 years or more in welcoming folk from across the world, but we cannot, and should not, be expected to be saddled with an unjustifiable sense of obligation to maintain an open house.’
We welcomed them only in the sense that we sucked them in to fill gaps in our labour market. As a Mancunian, Mark will presumably know as well as I do (from talking to the managers in the 60s) that the night shift in most textile works in that area was staffed exclusively by Bangladeshis and some Indians because the locals didn’t want the work, and there weren’t enough of them. Similarly with the Windrush immigrants from the W Indies, to fill jobs as bus drivers and nurses; similarly now with the influx of E Europeans into the health service & care work – ‘ doing the poorly paid work which is keeping us all going’ most of whom are better qualified for the posts they hold than the indigenous population. You seem upset that our comfortable life style has been predicated on the availability of immigrant labour.

160249 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Sylvie, #593 of 2160 🔗

Funny how the Japs managed to maintain a “comfortable lifestyle” without trashing their nation with cultural and racial division through mass immigration. Their average wage overtook this country’s in 2018, according to one OECD measure.

Because in reality importing cheap foreigners is just an easier and more profitable (for business owners) alternative to investing in productivity and automation, while outsourcing most of the costs onto the wider host society.

And of course, it’s just as well we had those immigrants to fill in the periods when we had zero unemployment of our own. Oh hang on, that’s never actually happened in peacetime, has it? Just think, if we wanted to make UK people do the jobs they supposedly “don’t want to do”, we’d have to pay them enough to persuade them to do so. That would be awful, eh? Funny how so many supposedly pro-worker leftists prefer to import cheaper foreigners rather than do that, eh?

160521 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Mark, #594 of 2160 🔗

Really, I notice plenty of Koreans in Japan, and they’ve been migrating there for years?? Little love lost historically between the Koreans and Japanese, the former detesting the latter for their brutal colonisation of Korea, misappropriating their art, burning their pagodas etc., so plenty of cultural and racial divisions (even if to Westerners they all look much the same). Nevertheless, t he modern flow of Koreans to Japan started with the Jap Korea Treaty 1876, and increased dramatically from 1920. During World War II, a large number of Koreans were also conscripted by Japan (another source of bitter division). Another wave of migration started after South Korea was devastated by the Korean War in the 1950s till they numbered nearly 2M.
A 1988 report included a survey of first generation Koreans’ reasons for immigration into Japan. The result was 13.3% for conscription, 39.6% for economics, 17.3% for marriage and family, 9.5% for study/academic, 20.2% for other reasons and 0.2% for unknown. In other words, not unlike the range of reasons for immigration to the UK. R egistered Korean residents in Japan 2012 c. 600,000.
There’s no such thing as zero unemployment. There is always a group whose lack of education, physical and mental health and other factors like being skivers or criminals makes them unemployable. But in the UK immigration has indeed coincided with all except that group being in work and there still being a demand for labour. Which is why employers right now are imploring Johnson to allow immigration of care workers, machinists and other assorted groups after Brexit. We don’t have enough of the right kind of people among the indigenous population, as you will have discovered if visiting a care home recently.

160763 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Sylvie, #595 of 2160 🔗

I suspect you know full well what an insultingly disingenuous reach that Korean nonsense is as a response to what I wrote. If you don’t, well you need to learn about Japan before you comment further. Trying to compare Korean visitors to Japan to British levels of mass immigration, either in numbers or in kind, is like comparing a knitting needle to a longsword.

Instead of grossly exaggerating, to the point of falsehood, a trivial issue there, why not confront the issue honestly and admit that it refutes your idea that mass immigration is somehow “necessary” for us to “live a comfortable life”?

You could even then question such pc nostrums as “we need to import foreigners because Brits won’t do the low level jobs that need to be done”, which is basically another way of saying “we don’t want to pay British people enough” to do the jobs in question, or invest enough in automation and productivity.

If you were to address this issue honestly, perhaps you could learn something new, rather than sticking safely within the bubble of pc dogma.

160972 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Mark, #596 of 2160 🔗

No facts (as usual).

160619 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Sylvie, -1, #597 of 2160 🔗


158917 ▶▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to RickH, 7, #598 of 2160 🔗

Just because Theresa May called herself “Conservative”, it doesn’t mean she was. Same goes for David Cameron. Both of them enacted policies that were clearly leftist in nature, including police cutbacks and mass immigration.

British politics are widely known for not subscribing to the typical definitions of “right” and “left”. Both sides of the British political aisle subscribe heavily to social measures of all kinds (socialised medicine in the form of the NHS being the best example). This isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but it is a leftist position.

159056 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 2, #599 of 2160 🔗

Exactly my view. The history of this country for the last century and a bit has been the almost continuous triumph of the left, so that almost every issue that was regarded as radical leftism at the beginning of the C20th is now pretty much mainstream dogma. That leftists can’t see that is rather comical, or would be if it weren’t so damaging to the country. Anyone whose views have remained broadly stable has seen the country shift sharply to the left around them during their lifetimes, so someone like me, who is objectively moderate centre right-ish, now finds himself unrepresented by the mainstream parties, and people who were centre left in my youth now find themselves unrepresented by a Labour Party that has shifted to even more radical positions that are accepted as supposedly reasonable.

159139 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, -3, #600 of 2160 🔗

Oh Gawd – the solipsism of the eccentric right in trying to define a planet of their own, and always whining ‘It were them, sir’ is both pathetic and amusing at the same time.

Anyone whose views have remained broadly stable has seen the country shift sharply to the left around them during their lifetimes”

… belongs to a continent somewhere beyond Loopy La-La land – somewhere back in the nostalgia of an imagined 18th Century.

159117 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Cristi.Neagu, -1, #601 of 2160 🔗

This re-writing of the dictionary of political terms to suit eccentric predilections is hilarious.

.. and it’s nothing to do with the serious business here.

158981 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to RickH, 2, #602 of 2160 🔗

Blairite government since 1997.The most revolutionary government in history

159145 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #603 of 2160 🔗

As the woman said – he was actually her best creation, faithfully following the tenets of unregulated global capital.

Do get a grip on the facts.

159528 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to RickH, #604 of 2160 🔗

The facts are he was a revolutionaryLike many of his cabinet,who were communists.
He made his peace with neo liberal economics but he radically changed the country it’s institutions and even its people.

159033 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Cristi.Neagu, #605 of 2160 🔗

He was elected to be a kind of British Trump, and completely failed to live up to even that low standard.

158864 Derek, 2, #606 of 2160 🔗

Re. heading image:
Give ‘Boris’ the apprenticeship, and the apprentice (behind) the Premiership.

He’d probably do a better job of running the country than ‘Boris’ would of laying bricks.
‘Boris’s’ ‘bricks’ have landed on us all.

158866 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 2, #607 of 2160 🔗


“When I looked in Wells’ book for that “empirical rule of thumb” of keeping your distance, I was astonished. It was just research into how far larger droplets spread when they come out of a person’s mouth or nose. And yes, most of them end up on the ground within 3 feet. But in no way was it determined whether someone was infected when they got those drops from a short distance.It was something like measuring how far the best golfer can hit the ball. That’s over 400 meters. But that doesn’t mean the ball will end up in the hole. You have to determine that separately. And Wells didn’t do that.”
But in his 1953 book he had found further interesting things.The evidence was that aerosol was the important factor in transmission infecting the lungs but large droplet not significant for transmission both in TB and influenza.
How good is cloth masks in stopping aerosol transmission?
In this essentially a pro mask study


they say that N95 and surgical mask reduce aerosol transmission 95%. But cloth masks, the ordinary mask most are wearing is not effective. Astonishingly, they are even worse than no facemask at all according to this from the study.

“Homemade cotton masks actually produced more particles than not wearing a mask. These appeared to be tiny fibers released from the fabric. Because the cotton masks produced particles themselves, it’s difficult to tell if they also blocked exhaled particles. They did seem to at least reduce the number of larger particles.”

 There is a big discussion with many arguing for aerosol transmission rather than droplet within 3 feet. This would have huge consequences since all SD based on 3 feet are to prevent large droplet spread and the use of facemasks was followed by the WHO. If aerosol transmission was accepted as the main route, everything would be changed to air ventilation, moisture control and UV light and SD 3 feet rule cloth masks would be out.

158914 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to swedenborg, 1, #608 of 2160 🔗

The CDC have changed their guidance on the droplets/aeresol aspects.


However it was uploaded as draft then removed.

Also on the guidance by the Health body here in Northern Ireland they specifically say not to use a mask with filters (N95) as they are useless.

Hold on, I thought the science was settled?

158938 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to swedenborg, 1, #609 of 2160 🔗

Wasn’t one of the worst SARS outbreaks in HK, due to poor building standards..aircon/plumbing?

158867 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 18, #610 of 2160 🔗

How is it going end?

I can think of only three scenarios.

1) The cavalry arrives – a vaccine is found! This is government’s scenario

2) The “second wave” proves to be much less than the tsunami predicted – denting the government’s authority. The populace realises only their own compliance keeps restraints in place – they dump their masks. Normality is restored by people simply deciding to return to it.

3) There is no end. We remain continually “at war” with the virus – just as Oceania is continually at war in Orwell’s 1984 – the world becomes ever more dystopian.

Any other ideas?

158886 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Ned of the Hills, 11, #611 of 2160 🔗

It’s that last one that bothers me most. Given the gullibility upon which this government depends, what would have seemed a fantasy in March now seems a real possibility.

… and the other two? Well – given the lies and the investment, I can see any old shit being sold as a ‘vaccine’. And a ‘second wave’ being manufactured.

What I find hard to forsee in honesty and real understanding of the reality.

158903 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to RickH, 5, #612 of 2160 🔗

A second wave is undoubtedly being manufactured in the UK. Two countries give me confidence that they will only be able to go so far with massaging the figures, Sweden and Germany, which looks to be following Sweden’s lead with more enthusiasm by the day. Also people can see the figures being manipulated and more of the MSM is calling the manipulation out.

158961 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Will, 4, #613 of 2160 🔗

Short of actually, directly, killing hospital patients I don’t see how they can fiddle the death figures much more than they already are doing.

158971 ▶▶▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to annie, 2, #614 of 2160 🔗

Give old people in care homes an untried vaccine. That’ll get the numbers up.

159012 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Thinkaboutit, 1, #615 of 2160 🔗

Might put people off taking the vaccine and they don’t want that!

In fact, even if the vaccine doesn’t kill them, the chances are they may well die soon after anyway and that would not look good for the mortality statistics for people who’ve taken the vaccine.

Think something like that happened in the US decades ago – they attempted to mass-vaccinate everyone but the press noted that some people died after taking the vaccine (if you treat a large enough number of people, some are going to die anyway) so they had to cancel the whole thing after a backlash.

159016 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Will, 3, #616 of 2160 🔗

Easy to create a so-called increase if you use Cases. Cases = Positive Tests of which about 80% are false positives.

158970 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to RickH, #617 of 2160 🔗

3 is impossible because economic reality will intrude before then.I think 1 is more likely but desperately hope for 2

159018 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #618 of 2160 🔗

3 is impossible because economic reality will intrude”

The framework will shift to accommodate.

159058 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to RickH, 1, #619 of 2160 🔗

Eventually economic facts catch up with all utopian or dystopian in this case,regimes.The Bank of England can only print so much and we are looking at 5 million unemployed by Christmas

158887 ▶▶ Derek, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #620 of 2160 🔗

Are we at continuing ‘war’ against the common cold? No.
The governments statement dated 19 March 2020:

158897 ▶▶ Tommo, replying to Ned of the Hills, 4, #621 of 2160 🔗

As ever the optimist, I think number two is most likely. It’s difficult to see how this level of panic can be maintained for that much longer. When the ‘second wave’ turns into a small ripple, more and more people will turn sceptical. the media will eventually get bored. Life will return to some normality over the next 12 months. However, I have been guilty of too much optimism since this started. I was telling people we would be back to normal in May. That turned out to be very wrong!

158915 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Tommo, 1, #622 of 2160 🔗

It’s difficult to see how this level of panic can be maintained for that much longer.”

I wish I had your faith, Tommo. But I step back six months, and the existing scenario of compiance would have seemed incredible.

158975 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to RickH, #623 of 2160 🔗

I agree I’ve always thought the end was soon but it just keeps going.Its whatever comes first the economic crash or the vaccine

158909 ▶▶ T Gambit, replying to Ned of the Hills, 7, #624 of 2160 🔗

There is no second wave. It’s over. Dr. bhakdi and many esteemed specialists in this field said this months ago, Why? Because they’ve spent their entire careers studying and developing protective procedures to virus outbreaks and yet every letter they wrote was ignored by Merkel, Johnson, in favour of their proscribed Pharmaceutical Mafia ‘specialists’ and psychologists. They are purposely causing perpetual confusion to instigate mass societal, political, economical, spiritual and cultural change. It’s like liquifying something to mould it into a different shape. They are using deception to do it. Do you trust them?

The only trustworthy normality is one based on truth, truth about this world and truth about ourselves, as human, if mankind is going to survive this attack on truth he/she must return to Laws laid down millenia ago. We are conscious sentient beings, if this does not play a part in our future, then there is no future. #technocracy #bigtechpharma

159273 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to T Gambit, 1, #625 of 2160 🔗

You are absolutely correct. This whole discourse has been pervaded by lies, and we can see how little traction those telling the truth can get against the narrative.

Unfortunately we see this repeated in history over and over. If this does not stop soon, we have dark times ahead.
I have noticed a disdain for truth increasing in my lifetime. It is frightening.

The dark side will lose, of course, but many will suffer.

158911 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Ned of the Hills, #626 of 2160 🔗

Alien Invasion?

158955 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to David Grimbleby, #627 of 2160 🔗

Been mentioned more than once.

158913 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Ned of the Hills, 3, #628 of 2160 🔗

I’m still holding out hope that humanity might be rescued by altruistic aliens.

158929 ▶▶ anon, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #629 of 2160 🔗

we’ve always been at war with corona

158944 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Ned of the Hills, 9, #630 of 2160 🔗

1 and 3 are essentially the same.

Because after corona the narrative will be that the state needs to keep monitoring everyone to ensure it doesn’t come back.

Just like all the measures stayed in place (and even increased) long after 9/11. Because the “threat” never goes away.

159105 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Ned of the Hills, 3, #631 of 2160 🔗

States in the US are starting to open up fully. Florida announced the end of all restrictions last week and today/yesterday Tennessee are following suit.

It remains to be seen how they fare. It could be the catalyst that makes people realise the futility of endless lockdown/restrictions or it could be a disaster (probably unlikely but not impossible).

159111 ▶▶ PaulH, replying to Ned of the Hills, 3, #632 of 2160 🔗

I think No3 is actually the govt plan.

Hence all the “New Normal” stuff.

This war on germs will be the new “war on terror” and will usher in the WEF New Order.

159182 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to PaulH, #633 of 2160 🔗

I’m going with a version of 2.

159183 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #634 of 2160 🔗

It will go on like that until the government can’t print any more money without that having an hyperinflationary effect.
Then, the currency and everything else will collapse within a week, globally bar China, CH, Scandinavia, leading to a depression and mass unemployment.
That’s when the sheeple will awake.

159203 ▶▶ AnotherSceptic, replying to Ned of the Hills, 5, #635 of 2160 🔗

My idea, civil unrest. It needs to happen now. People can get their knickers in a twist about some guy who was shot by police in America, yet do nothing about their own civil liberties & rights & lives being removed on a whim by this utterly incompetent & inept government.

159219 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #636 of 2160 🔗

I would give anything for the second scenario to be true!

158874 Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 19, #637 of 2160 🔗

Just got back from my local high street. Haven’t been for a while, but needed to go to the bank (unmuzzled, no questions asked by the way).

The council have blockaded the roads with huge ugly bollards for ‘social distancing purposes’! It reminded me of the short time I spent working in Beirut, except Beirut had nice food and friendly people!

159493 ▶▶ Arkansas, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, #638 of 2160 🔗

“Spaces for People” AKA “Active Streets”, hurriedly and opportunistically being pushed through under cover of “Covid”.

158879 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #639 of 2160 🔗

Strange thing about Tobias Ellwood’s Register of Interest. It says he received earlier this year £1150 from a company called CMEC UK and MENA Ltd.

What I thought strange is it was set-up in 2019 with zero shares and zero capital by 3 people with 1 who listed their occupation as Member of Parliament in 2019, they then took on 1 more MP and 1 more person, then the 2 MPs resigned.

Not a normal companies et-up for having interests in Saudia Arabia.

158967 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #640 of 2160 🔗

Colonel in the 77th brigade according to U.K. Column

158997 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #641 of 2160 🔗

Yes, he’s a TA reservist so he can keep his job s MP.

Supposedly he’s the “independent oversight” of what the 77th gets up to.

160540 ▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Awkward Git, #642 of 2160 🔗

MENA = ME & N Africa. CMEC = the Conservative Middle East Council. An organisation which exists to ensure that MPs and Peers understand the  Middle East. It organises delegations of MPs and Peers to the region. Delegations have visited Palestine, Israel, Libya, Egypt, Syria, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Lebanon and Tunisia.

CMEC also organises a number of events in the UK. These include talks by experts in the Houses of Parliament, receptions and lectures.
Maybe a lecture fee, then?

158884 Ursula Kraus-Harper, 5, #643 of 2160 🔗

Maybe I have missed it but I have not seen anybody mention the largest ever court case in human history being prepared at the moment in Germany and the US against the fraudulent PCR test developed by virologist Dr Drosten (known for previous fraudulent behaviour, must be a cousin of Neil Ferguson, produced in Germany and recommended by the WHO to be used worldwide. This test is the basis of all these criminal measures our governments have been are are implementing. There are now many other such tests, all useless. This has been established with 100% certainty. The leading lawyer is Dr Reiner Fuellmich, who also lead the cases against VW and Deutsche Bank. He is accredited in Germany and California, and is now working with a team on international lawyers. Most of the stuff I have is in German but here is a short video with Dr Fuellmich explaining what they are planning. This was a month ago; things are proceeding and they are going for class action in the US (we don’t have that possibility in Germany and Britain, where class action was first developed, stopped doing it long time ago). https://youtu.be/x_sTEem7LG4

158901 Smelly Melly, replying to Smelly Melly, 15, #644 of 2160 🔗

Got talking to a male nurse from a local community hospital. Only 2 patients at a time are allowed in, normally there’s 20-30 in waiting for their appointment. They are having to cancel loads of appointments, plus lots of appointments having been cancelled by patients themselves because they are too scared to visit a hospital.

He then told me about his 83 year old father, who’s normally a fit and health 83 year old. For the past 5 weeks he’s felt down and listless and not at all well. They have tried to see a doctor for the 5 weeks. They eventually saw one who sent his father to hospital, where it was discovered he’d had pneumonia for the past 5 weeks.

He also told me about somebody he knew who was having Chemo just before lockdown and because of lockdown his treatment got cancelled. He’s now terminal.

I said the NHS is now the CHS and he agreed.

158952 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Smelly Melly, 3, #645 of 2160 🔗

Very sad, and there are many similar cases. Yet worship of the NHS institution is still pretty much universal – I would get a more passionate response from the average person if I criticised the NHS than if I criticised Christianity. It’s truly cult like.

158923 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #646 of 2160 🔗

A threat to humanity. World leaders unable to contain it. Hundreds of thousands die. The only hope is utilising and adapting existing technology.

Yes this is the basic plot to Independence Day. Aliens with technology far more advanced than the humans for some reason still use BASIC (or whatever computing language you care to think of) and USB ports that allows the hero of the movie to install a virus on the motherships computer.

Sounds ridiculous doesn’t it? Yet here we are living out that very plot. A novel virus so deadly that the whole fabric of society is torn apart in order to contain it. The only hope is utilising pre-existing vaccine research that happens to be a good match for this unknown virus. Did I forget to mention that it’s a novel virus?


158930 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Nobody2020, #647 of 2160 🔗

You mean the virus is just a story ?

158946 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #648 of 2160 🔗

Can I please be the one to punch Bunter and say “Welcome to Earth”?

158947 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #649 of 2160 🔗

Also like this TV episode from 2003:


a coronavirus, like SARS, highly infective
from China
lockdowns for “your family’s safety”
masks – after everybody been exposed, political pressure though
from animals
exponential growth chart
blood tests and swabs don’t tell much, symptoms like every other virus like flu
long swabs to back of throat
HCQ cures it

Very prophetic.

158934 RickH, replying to RickH, 4, #650 of 2160 🔗

Just another shout-out for :

“Corona? False Alarm. Fact and Figures”
by Reiss and Bhakdi

It really is an essential summary and reference to have at hand.

158984 ▶▶ leggy, replying to RickH, 1, #651 of 2160 🔗

Just started reading the digital. I’ll be ordering the book if I can avoid using Amazon for it.

159173 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to RickH, 1, #652 of 2160 🔗

It was the No1 bestselling book in Germany for months since it came out, it might still be.
Not that it ever appeared on one the bestseller lists.
At the publishers of those lists (Spiegel&co), they just pretended it doesn’t exist and therefore couldn’t sell.

158939 Steeve, replying to Steeve, 3, #653 of 2160 🔗

Dermatology appointment for Dad
few months ago
Given time and date
Changed for another time and date plus might be a telephone consultation
Changed again to the local private hospital but no mention of telephone consultation
Today text comes
Please be aware your Dermatology appointment this afternoon is a telephone appointment. PLEASE DO NOT ATTEND THE HOSPITAL

So do we have a telephone consultation from a private hospital! Who knows.

158993 ▶▶ Schrodinger, replying to Steeve, 3, #654 of 2160 🔗

Apologies for putting the link here but I’ve started a Facebook Group to try and get those who are having issues with routine treatment together.

If any Lockdownsceptics (or their friends and relatives) are affected do join and spread the word.


159077 ▶▶▶ BJJ, replying to Schrodinger, 1, #655 of 2160 🔗

I wouldn´t use Facebook. They will take you down.

159160 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Schrodinger, #657 of 2160 🔗

Sorry I don’t use facebook

158941 Ben Shirley, replying to Ben Shirley, 13, #658 of 2160 🔗

I am really appalled by what I’ve been hearing about Saturday’s protest. Some people on here described the unrest at the end as having been pre-planned and instigated by the police, but one has to take things like that with a pinch of salt. However, I’ve spoken to about half a dozen people in real life and they all support the claim.

Apparently the protest began with ‘prayers’ of thanks/forgiveness to the police (“Bollocks to ’em!” would have been my attitude) before everything got under way. As people will already know, everything kicked off between Icke and Dr. Schoning, and they’ll know about Schoning beined interned. I have been lead to believe that while the police were moving in, the attitude of the protesters was one of Gandhi-like peace and passivity, yet some were still subjected to violence. I do not suppose the violence was necessary calculated and intentional, but it must at least have been casual and indifferent.
As I say, if it was just a couple of people on the internet saying that, I would have been sceptical, but there are too many different voices corroborating one another. Abhorrent is not a strong enough word.

I have heard other claims, too, such as that police were preventing people leaving railway stations to get to the protest, but things like that are not so well substantiated.

158969 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Ben Shirley, 21, #659 of 2160 🔗

I witnessed it with my own eyes. The prayers you refer to, were really a minute silence for the officer recently shot dead.

I knew early on that there would be establishment interference. The fountains in Trafalgar Square were turned off when I arrived. Shortly after, they were turned on full blast which firstly drowned out the speakers, meaning people had to move forward to hear what was being said. Secondly, in the gusty wind on the day it was getting people wet nearby meaning some of them moved away and forward, increasing crowd density even further. I’m obviously not just sceptical but cynical too, it had to have been deliberate.

The behaviour of the crowd was entirely peaceful and good natured. Apart from the odd booo when things like the BBC were mentioned. All in good humour though.

A request was made over the PA on behalf of the police at around 14:45 to respect social distancing (not that this is a law as far as I’m aware) and the crowd did seem to respond – obviously not to the satisfaction of the red epauletted, masaked police commander who had been regarding the entire event from his perch at the entrance to the National Portrait Gallery. Around 15:00 the heavies moved in. The persons around the stage did precisely the most peaceful thing they could do and sat down, but still the police waded into them kicking, punching and batoning their way to the stage. I saw several persons gushing blood from head wounds. Who sanctions clubbing people around the head in a civilised society?

I did see a few cans of beer get thrown, but only after violence had been acted on the peaceful attendees.

Overall, possibly the most disgusting behaviour I’ve ever witnessed by agents of government in this country.

159032 ▶▶▶ Badgerman, replying to leggy, 4, #660 of 2160 🔗

Could not agree more. It was shameful.

159417 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to leggy, #661 of 2160 🔗

Who gave the orders to savage the demonstrators.

158990 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Ben Shirley, 7, #662 of 2160 🔗

I looked at the live coverage and the Anna Brees interviews.

Of course – all views are partial, but this combination was fairly representative, I reckon.

It was clear at the outset that the crowd was very disciplined and peaceful.

Of course – that doesn’t preclude the fact of a few nutters out to cause trouble – but the overwhelming mood was ordered and quiet. The range of individuals was quite an ordinary

Eye-witnesses say that relationships with the ordinary police were perfectly civilized. It was the intervention of hyped-up and armed (with batons) riot police that was exceptional – not anything provocative from the crowd.

It all happened when people were already peacefully dispersing, and was clearly provocation and thuggery , such as we saw in the miners’ strike.

159028 ▶▶ Badgerman, replying to Ben Shirley, 4, #663 of 2160 🔗

I was there Ben and can corroborate what you say (save for the stations part as I avoided them)

159062 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Badgerman, #664 of 2160 🔗

I went via Leicester Sq, it was fine (I never saw any police and I’ve never seen the tube so quiet on a Saturday lunchtime).

159065 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to Ben Shirley, 2, #665 of 2160 🔗

You could always watch the live streamed videos on YouTube which clearly what happened and how the police, unprovoked, steamed into the crowd, barreling people to the ground, then started clubbing members of the public who were exercise their democratic right to be out in public.

158942 leggy, replying to leggy, 1, #666 of 2160 🔗

Clear evidence of some spikes. I predict a further spike today after the commons vote.

158949 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to leggy, #667 of 2160 🔗

Spot the spike!

158973 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Steeve, #668 of 2160 🔗

I think we may see 3,000 today.

158974 ▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Steeve, 5, #669 of 2160 🔗

Don’t tell him spike!

158960 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to leggy, 1, #670 of 2160 🔗

Funny thing if you look at charts relating to infections and death – they always show spikes and waves!

158964 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Steeve, #671 of 2160 🔗

Spike – often. Waves – rarely.

159403 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to leggy, #672 of 2160 🔗

There are just about as many troughs as there are spikes!

158979 Sikboy, replying to Sikboy, 27, #673 of 2160 🔗

I think today is going to be pivotal in the HOC. The response by MPs has been glacial in speed, but I think the tide has turned.

I wouldn’t mind seeing a league table of MPs in terms of their speaking out, that way we know where we stand.

I think most people are behaving as pragmatists, but the historical context of that approach is terrifying. On the flip side of that, it’s likely they’ll be fast to drop the ‘new abnormal’ when sanctions are dropped.

For my fourth and final point, the zealots aren’t the majority and frankly I’m giving up on them. 99% of people on here have well developed critical faculties, the zealots do not. I can’t tell you how frustrating it is as a professional mathematician to be told I don’t understand the data by these people. The Dunning-Krueger effect is in play.

158988 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Sikboy, 3, #674 of 2160 🔗

Stoopid is as stoopid does

158991 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Sikboy, 11, #675 of 2160 🔗

I can’t tell you how frustrating it is as a professional mathematician to be told I don’t understand the data by these people.

No disagreement there!

158999 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Sikboy, 12, #676 of 2160 🔗

The Lockdown zealots I know personally are all public sector employees or retirees. On maybe a positive note I contacted my MP yesterday via the Liberty petition against Lockdown. My MP is very pro all restrictions being debated in the house and said that restrictions are temporary? hmm we’ll see.

159420 ▶▶▶ Sikboy, replying to KBuchanan, 2, #677 of 2160 🔗

Very similar in my experience, I work in the private sector and notice a little more scepticism. I also have to deal with consequences of my work, something a lot of the public sector doesn’t have to.

Interestingly, I’ve noticed a lot of people in the academy make the following mistakes:

1. They ignore empirical data.
2. They become wedded to the sophisticated techniques and ignore asking the initial question “is this appropriate?”
3. Groupthink/doublethink – I don’t understand how they can function in a manner that will search for truth.

160056 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to KBuchanan, #678 of 2160 🔗

Not all retirees, I’m almost 72 and I’m out and about all the time.

159001 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Sikboy, 2, #679 of 2160 🔗

Great post

159015 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Sikboy, 4, #680 of 2160 🔗

Agree completely. I speak as a natural science undergraduate with a social science PhD.

159399 ▶▶▶ Sikboy, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #681 of 2160 🔗

It’s painful isn’t it – I think it’s what happens when unfalsifiable statements are put forward by these ‘scientists’.

159210 ▶▶ EllGee, replying to Sikboy, 1, #682 of 2160 🔗

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/ is useful for seeing what MPs are doing

159437 ▶▶▶ Sikboy, replying to EllGee, #683 of 2160 🔗

A great resource, thanks

159316 ▶▶ Suburbian, replying to Sikboy, 2, #684 of 2160 🔗

Totally agree. When I tell people I have a Master’s degree in Public Health and Epidemiology they tell me I’m not following the science…love it

159395 ▶▶▶ Sikboy, replying to Suburbian, #685 of 2160 🔗

I feel your pain!

158980 karenovirus, 12, #686 of 2160 🔗

Conversation 1) worker in an upmarket city restaurant, ” we’re so busy lunchtimes and afternoons since Boris said work from home again. I’m pleased with 10pm close, means I get home before midnight”.

2) Pleasant young man approached me as I emerged maskless from Tesco Metro, a brief exchange revealed us both to be Sceptics. He told me of his anti-mask Facebook groups and the next (next ?) Demo in the city. I introduced him to LS but then we each had to go our separate ways.

158987 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 30, #687 of 2160 🔗

Anyone else feeling like we’re living in some strange schizophrenic world of contradictions? I feel like things are simultaneously improving, but also getting worse.

More people seem to have woken up to the insane situation we find ourselves in, and the public mood has definitely changed. It’s changed very slowly over the last 6 months but we’ve made a lot of progress and it’s clear we’re in this for the long haul so we need patience. And yet at the same time, the more people resist the crazy and harmful restrictions and the more people question the justification for these restrictions, the harder the government seems to clamp down. I really think that the increased clamp down is a sign that the government knows the wheels are falling off the bus and that its authority is rapidly draining away, so it tries to regain control in the only way it knows how: by issuing diktats by statutory instrument on a whim so that even the PM himself isn’t aware of what the new rules are. That will have reflected on him very badly indeed yesterday.

October will be a crunch month I feel. More redundancies around the corner, colder and darker days. We are on a knife edge whereby either the government’s final sliver of tattered authority withers away and everything falls apart, or it clamps down good and proper just in time for the October half term in order to keep a lid on the shitstorm that is rolling towards it. Could go either way, really.

I think that Johnson and Cummings need to go before we can make substantial inroads. Johnson is still clearly scarred from his stint in ICU which is awful for him but he is not fit to lead the country. This is what makes the UK situation so unique as against other nations – have any other nations had their leader in ICU? This is surely affecting Johnson’s decision-making in favour of endless knee-jerk restrictions and disproportionate caution. In a way I really hope the government messes up Brexit and plunges the country into chaos because when people can’t go anywhere or get food on the table, all coronavirus restrictions will be forgotten and Johnson will be practically forced to resign which will allow us a fresh start to move away from coronavirus as well. What bizarre times we are living through – and I’m only 22. It’s almost as if I can’t remember a time when politics was normal and boring.

159000 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Poppy, 6, #688 of 2160 🔗

You are so right.
The same happens in Germany, people are going along with it because they do not want to be fined. So new fines get introduced.

159007 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Silke David, 5, #689 of 2160 🔗

Silke, as an aside, is Mrs Merkel also unwell – is she still having those strange spasms? If so, what/who is keeping her in place?

159108 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Poppy, 11, #690 of 2160 🔗

Johnson is still clearly scarred from his stint in ICU

I don’t believe he was in an ICU. I think it far more likely he was out of the public eye either having a breakdown, or doing some catching up with other world leaders on what their common strategy should be. Probably both.

159138 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Barney McGrew, 8, #691 of 2160 🔗

I think he was threatened – do as you are told or on the ventilator you go.

Didn’t Whitty and Vallance have the same “illness” at the same time?

159148 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #692 of 2160 🔗

threatened and he still hasn’t recovered in my opinion

159838 ▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Barney McGrew, #693 of 2160 🔗

I wondered at the time whether he really was ill or not. Then I saw him when he ‘came out of hospital’ and he did look unwell (he looked unwell before he went in too). I still don’t know what to believe.

159146 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Poppy, 9, #694 of 2160 🔗

Things are certainly getting much worse,from what I observe anyway.Apart from a small amount of newly sceptical people I can’t see any improvement,sorry to be pessimistic but that’s what I see.Some of the media might have finally started to come to their senses,a bit rich in my opinion when it was them that made everything much worse than it needed to be,but it isn’t making any noticeable difference,as you mention,any narrative that questions the government one is met with evermore ridiculous edicts instead of reasoned appraisal.
I have no sympathy for Johnson and his apparent bout of Covid,my sympathy is directed to everyone that is suffering from his dictatorial government.I would have hoped that someone who had risen to his position in life would have the intelligence to realise that if he isn’t up to the job due to illness he must stand aside and let someone else do it.If he can’t see that maybe he is delusional,in which case he may be suffering some kind of mental incapacity or illness and should not be making decisions that are destroying the country and it’s population.
I don’t think you should be wishing any more chaos on the country as a potential means to rid us of Johnson,if things go much further and unrest starts to breakout it may not be possible to come back from it.

159166 ▶▶ John Galt, replying to Poppy, 1, #695 of 2160 🔗

We’ve entered a world of Fact vs Fiction.

159187 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Poppy, 5, #696 of 2160 🔗

Getting worse in some ways and better in others

People getting more polarised

Governments using ever dirtier tactics now that they feel it slipping away from them

But more people speaking up and supporting the sceptic case

159863 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Poppy, 2, #697 of 2160 🔗

I’ve had a gut feeling since summer that they will bring the hammer down again in October. I also feel that one of two important things will happen before December; we will either shake this off completely or we limp over the line into January and then this government will hit the accelerator and we will launch into full-on fascism/communism. They will not win though. Enough of us are awake to stop this. We will not let it happen.

158994 leggy, replying to leggy, 3, #698 of 2160 🔗

Check this load of old guff from a Brexit group – this brainwashing is running deep isn’t it? How do you even begin to convince these people we’re in the midst of a casedemic driven by dubious testing and not being engulfed by a plague of biblical proportions?

COVID has become the new Brexit.

It’s driving me insane listening to all the moaning and carping about lockdowns and infringement of people rights.

I mean for gods sake, being gay and thrown off a building for being so is an infringement of your rights.

Three generations of your family being imprisioned in barbaric camps because one member speaks ill of a government is an infringement of your rights.

Being gassed by your government is an infringement of your rights.

Being asked not to go to the fucking pub after ten o’clock is NOT an infringment of your rights.

Get a grip, what the hell is wrong with people, there trying to implant chips into our body WTF!

It’s Telecommunications towers causing the virus! WTF!

There is no virus it’s just globalists trying to control us WTF!

Wearing a mask is not an infringement of your rights, and if wearing one without a medical reason is causing you mental health issues then your mental to start with. Get a sodding grip.

I’ll tell you what it is, really, it’s “inconvenient ” that’s all it is.

I get people not seeing loved ones who are dying is terrible, granndparents not seeing there grandchildren is terrible, I. Know it’s so very easy to say all this but come on it’s currently reality. It doesn’t matter what government is in power the virus is still going to kill you if it can. And it will.

I think the same people moaning about Brexit (because it’s the same people I hear) causing the unrest with there anti government crap everyday, are just using this terrible situation to cause unrest for the government. That’s all.

I’m hearing the same doom and gloom from them as we did with Brexit .

It’s not helping the situation is deliberately inflaming it.

It has to stop.

We need to fight it together.

159005 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to leggy, 9, #699 of 2160 🔗

Overdose of BBC?

159022 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to KBuchanan, 10, #700 of 2160 🔗

No.Just profound ignorance and stupidity.

159014 ▶▶ Draper233, replying to leggy, 15, #701 of 2160 🔗

Well, as a full on sceptic, from a subjective point of view I can shut these arguments down in three words:

I voted remain.

159021 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Draper233, 11, #702 of 2160 🔗

I think they’re accusing Remainers of being the anti-lockdown brigade. While I sympathise with their anti-conspiracy stance, most of us are anti-lockdown. And I voted Leave. One of the reasons I voted Leave was for less government in my life, not throwing everybody under a bus. (Whatever your view of the benefits or otherwise of Brexit)

159057 ▶▶▶▶ BJJ, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #703 of 2160 🔗

Well good luck with that.

159150 ▶▶▶▶ Draper233, replying to Nick Rose, 9, #704 of 2160 🔗

You could be right. Irrespective, as far as i’m concerned the whole Brexit debate just seems insignificant compared to this.

I will happily rub shoulders with Brexiteers and other political opponents whilst we fight this common cause.

After we win, we can go back to arguing, but hopefully with a bit more respect for each other after having a taste of what it really feels like to start losing freedom and democracy.

159171 ▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Nick Rose, 5, #705 of 2160 🔗

I don’t see any link between LS’s and Brexit. I’m an arch sceptic and I was also staunch Remain. However, if there was any sort of relationship I’d say Leavers would tend to be Sceptics. I’ve no evidence, just a gut feeling. I guess a good pointer here is Telegraph readers – vast majority are Leavers, and from article comments it seems that the vast majority are also sceptics.

159204 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Nick Rose, #706 of 2160 🔗

I’m neutral on Brexit (I also think Marmite is okay), so where does that leave me?

159036 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Draper233, 4, #707 of 2160 🔗

The Brexit/Remain division is the reddest of herrings in this issue.

Just as an example : the pro-Brexit ‘left’ tend to be fanatical fans of lockdown.

159078 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to RickH, #708 of 2160 🔗


159087 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Fingerache Philip., #709 of 2160 🔗

You can wish upon a star as much as you like – but it won’t come to you.

I’ve just stated a couple of facts, not an opinion.

159135 ▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to RickH, 3, #710 of 2160 🔗

I do have to say that my left wing friends seem more accepting of lock down authoritarianism than my right wing ones (I sit on the fence, I saw mainstream politics as being just another cause of division in society a long time ago).

160194 ▶▶▶▶ Splendid Acres, replying to RickH, 1, #711 of 2160 🔗

I’m a pro-Brexit leftie. I still fail to see how the left ever changed it’s scepticism on the EU.

I’m also a lockdown sceptic.

Maybe I’m just a stubborn contrarian.

Perhaps there is no left/right proper when everything seems upside-down.

159075 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Draper233, #712 of 2160 🔗


159023 ▶▶ Liam, replying to leggy, 5, #713 of 2160 🔗

Erm, I read that as coming from a pro-Brexit standpoint? As in, critical of people who moan about Brexit? (I speak as an uber-Brexiteer myself).

Either way, it’s absolute gibberish in any case.

159049 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Liam, 6, #714 of 2160 🔗

It certainly was – I’m familiar with their previous posts on Brexit. I also supported Brexit, but because I saw the EU as a vehicle to increased corporatocracy, not because I dislike foreigners.

159095 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to leggy, #715 of 2160 🔗

Same as most Leave voters, I’d suggest.

159031 ▶▶ Hopeful, replying to leggy, 2, #716 of 2160 🔗

You need to get out more. Go find some critical thinking capability, implant it into your brain, then do some diligent research. Come back when you’ve garnered some facts to support your viewpoint. It’s annoying that you don’t know when to use ‘there’ and ‘their’. Maybe you’re a 77er!

159045 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to leggy, 3, #717 of 2160 🔗

So apart from pubs closing at 10pm everything is normal then?

No fines or punishments for going about your normal life?

159052 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #718 of 2160 🔗

Seems so!

159092 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to leggy, #719 of 2160 🔗

Hmmm…I can’t imagine who would come out with that melange…well I can – not a genuine punter. Do you have a link to the site you cut and pasted this long screed from?

159096 ▶▶ stewart, replying to leggy, 3, #720 of 2160 🔗

When the microchip comes, he’ll be screaming “what’s the big deal?, It’s just inconvenient, that’s all it is.”


159127 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to leggy, 12, #721 of 2160 🔗

The £10,000 ‘fixed penalty’ for holding a political rally is emblematic of where we are it seems to me.

Sure, you could rationalise it as not specifically aimed at political gatherings, but that would be a bit naive, obviously. You could claim that a fine it isn’t as bad as imprisoning someone, but as has been pointed out, for many people that amount of money would be ‘life changing’ – they might even top themselves.

I dare say living in East Germany was also ‘inconvenient’ more than terrifying. I hear that if you dissented you were unlikely to end up in front of a firing squad, but much more likely to lose your ‘privileges’. Well, we’re almost there, it seems to me.

159169 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to leggy, 5, #722 of 2160 🔗

Your government denies safe, effective, cheap life-saving HCQ to victims of the disease. So that’s inconvenient? They have taken powers to remove your children to unknown places without your knowledge. Just an irritant. They can demolish your house if they decide to do so. So what?

The situation we are in involves a rogue government that is under the control of hostile forces. There is a virus that needs to be respected, but certainly not feared.

Get the word out by any means you have at your disposal.

159188 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to leggy, 2, #723 of 2160 🔗

I’ll tell you what it is, really, it’s “inconvenient ” that’s all it is.

Question: to be living in a dystopia, does the justification for the ‘inconvenience’ matter? Because I think we’re heading for the real sci-fi techno-nightmare in practice – but dressed up as ‘inconvenience’ due to a pandemic in theory.

If I had to bet, it would be that the reasons don’t matter, because once in place it may never be lifted, and even if it is partly lifted, future dictators governments will find it much easier to ratchet up the control of the population if there’s been a precedent. They may even find it quite ‘convenient’ to do so.

159383 ▶▶ Roadrash, replying to leggy, 2, #724 of 2160 🔗

I’d call making it illegal for me to see my elderly parents and for them to visit me an infringement of my rights. Not being allowed to go where I want, see whom I want, protest etc on threat of fines and a criminal record is an infringement of my rights. Being singled out for non masked compliance even if exempt. I could go on. It will follow of course by mandatory vaccines and social credit type scores (as China), digital health passports mandating all areas of life. Not an infringement, no.

159750 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to leggy, #725 of 2160 🔗

Yeah, yeah – so which Brexit group, leggy ? Or was it just babble from someone in the ‘comments’ ?

159027 NickR, replying to NickR, 16, #726 of 2160 🔗

After a bike ride last night 8 of us rocked up at a pub. None of us had a mask, this wasn’t planned, it wasn’t a protest we’d just not thought about it.
We couldn’t get in, couldn’t use the loo, treated like leppers.
Then went on to a curry house. Totally chill, I so appreciate a reasonable approach now from the staff. I understand that they’re doing what they have to do to stop the council closing them down but a bit of good humour goes a long way.

159149 ▶▶ John Galt, replying to NickR, 10, #727 of 2160 🔗

They’ve been quite clever in that they’ve turned business owners against people. The business owners are now deathly afraid that someone will grass them up and they’ll get fined or shutdown.

The irony of it is that within a year they’ll almost certainly be out of business anyway.

159155 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to John Galt, 10, #728 of 2160 🔗

Please don’t tar all business owners with the same brush. I haven’t turned against my customers. But for treating them as human beings, I am being persecuted.

159164 ▶▶▶▶ John Galt, replying to kh1485, 6, #729 of 2160 🔗

But for treating them as human beings, I am being persecuted.

This is my point. There will be outliers like your good self, but you’ll be few and far between for solely that reason. It’s disgraceful what they’ve done.

159170 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to John Galt, 7, #730 of 2160 🔗

Sorry, re-read your post and I now get it. Just on a hair trigger atm at what is being done to me (being threatened with being criminalised for being human) .. apologies

159192 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to kh1485, 4, #731 of 2160 🔗

Well doen for you for standing up.

If I was nearer to essex I’d pop in for a coffee and cake but 3 hours each way is a bit far though.

Those who protected Anne Frank were breaking the law, those who killed her were following the law which is where you can claim the Nuremberg Defence (and not the Nuremberg Principles which are different) which is “I was just following orders” is not valid legal defence in court.

Ethics is superior to law:


Nuremberg Principle IV:

“The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him”.

You had a moral choice and took the ethical decision.

Not guilty in my book.

159213 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John Galt, replying to kh1485, 3, #732 of 2160 🔗

That’s alright.

The thing with it is, people will remember this now and they’ll remember it in the future too. When I said “they’ll all be out of business”, I meant more the types who are being fully draconian about everything, because they’re going to annoy people to the point they’ll never come back. Even people who do wear masks and follow the whole thing, they’re going to get annoyed when some idiot shouts at them to “stay 2 metres apart!” Whereas if someone went to your business and you were compassionate towards them, they’ll remember that and they’ll return more frequently because of it.

I hope all works out well with your business, you’re on the right side of history, never forget that.

159029 Ed Phillips, replying to Ed Phillips, 6, #733 of 2160 🔗

Basic question alert!

Do we know exactly how Coronavirus spreads?

Does it spread by droplets?
Does it spread by touching surfaces?
Does it spread by being close to another person for a significant period of time and how long is that period?

If so, what is the evidence?

I know the evidence for the efficacy of masks is non-existent but what about all the other stuff?

159044 ▶▶ BJJ, replying to Ed Phillips, 2, #734 of 2160 🔗

It does not matter if it spreads. Let´s think about something else.

159073 ▶▶▶ Ed Phillips, replying to BJJ, #735 of 2160 🔗

Cool, seen any good films lately?

159209 ▶▶▶▶ Alice, replying to Ed Phillips, 1, #736 of 2160 🔗
  • Not lately, but I do recommend it to everyone: Black Book. One of its themes is righteous anger, and vengeance. Very satisfying ending – justice was done, the traitor met a very horrifying end.
159412 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Ed Phillips, #737 of 2160 🔗

Shock and Awe. A Rob Reiner film about the lead up to the Iraq war and the egregious lying that took place to justify it. We all knew it but laying it out as a piece of storytelling is very sobering since exactly the same is going on now.

159072 ▶▶ Iansn, replying to Ed Phillips, 7, #738 of 2160 🔗

According to all the best sources, like all bad things, it spreads through the ether. It spreads when you stand up in the pub but not when you are sitting down, it spreads in toilets, at pub entrances. It spreads most rapidly after 10pm but only in pubs and restaurants, but not takeaways. It didnt spread in Asda during the peak of the disease earlier in the year, but it does now. There, so we have taken steps to ensure it doesn’t spread by informing you how and where/how it spreads. Now make up your own mind. Obviously they have not got a clue from the rules above, and as lockdown fails to stop it effectively it must be the ether or mal aire.

159079 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Ed Phillips, 1, #739 of 2160 🔗

There is no definitive answer. It’s all based on observation and assumptions that best fit those observations.

159093 ▶▶▶ Ed Phillips, replying to Nobody2020, #740 of 2160 🔗

Thank you.

159088 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Ed Phillips, 1, #741 of 2160 🔗

Well, it seems they don’t even know how influenza spreads. Here’s a couple of interesting articles:

On the Epidemiology of Influenza

An outbreak of common colds at an Antarctic base after seventeen weeks of complete isolation

159274 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #742 of 2160 🔗

The Antarctic study is interesting. The paper concludes: don’t know. This is not the sort of conclusion that would be acceptable in today’s climate. Nowadays, papers are published that claim to know something, even when everything in the research reveals they don’t know. This contemporary inability to say: “I don’t know” is perhaps our most serious problem.

159415 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #743 of 2160 🔗

I got a common cold at the end of May and I hadn’t been near anyone for over four weeks.

159180 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Ed Phillips, 1, #744 of 2160 🔗

Good questions. You’d think that after 9 months, the world’s experts and scientists, facing supposedly the most terrible deadly threat for 100 years, would have found out some useful information. But I’ve seen nothing from SAGE or the WHO or anywhere else that is remotely definitive that could be used in formulating policy. Almost as if they don’t really care, because it’s all about the vaccine.

Given the general uselessness of lockdowns, I imagine it spreads by many means, including through the air.

159214 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Julian, 3, #745 of 2160 🔗

This si the 2019 WHO document and it’s never been changed or superseded or withdrawn.

Everything else from them seems to be verbal only:


It’s interesting reading and basically ays the best way to handle a pandemic is to:

wash hands properly with soap and hot water
cough and sneeze etiquette into hanks or elbow
if you feel ill stay t home until you feel better

So that is what 2500 years of dealing with colds and flu have taught us works and we followed until March 23rd.

No evidence anything else works or is effective against a virus, it will spread as it wants and it cannot be stopped.

159227 ▶▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Awkward Git, #746 of 2160 🔗

That’s my complete Covid strategy. Clean hands and disposable tissues.

160551 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Thinkaboutit, #747 of 2160 🔗

And maintaining a strong immune system with sunshine, fresh air, exercise, good food, and the occasional challenge if you live alone by mingling and catching a cold, just to keep the system on the alert.

159245 ▶▶▶▶ Ed Phillips, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #748 of 2160 🔗

Thank you.

Is it too harsh to say that all the interventions are based on guesswork and superstition?

159480 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Ed Phillips, #749 of 2160 🔗

No it’s not too harsh as they keep repeating the phrases “no evidence”, “no trials performed”, “evidence low” or similar.

159071 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #750 of 2160 🔗

They say that laughter is the best medicine…..and boy do we need it more than ever!

Apologies if this has been posted before:


159082 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #751 of 2160 🔗

That did it for me!

159080 mjr, replying to mjr, 8, #752 of 2160 🔗

Speaker hoyle has kicked out the amendments .. bastard
so another 6 months of dictatorship

159103 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to mjr, 1, #753 of 2160 🔗


159119 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to mjr, 3, #754 of 2160 🔗

Treason, should be imprisoned for life.

159122 ▶▶ jb12, replying to mjr, 13, #755 of 2160 🔗

It was never going to be any different. We do not live in a system led by the people or their representatives, and we haven’t for a long time. This will remain the case for as long as supra-national bodies like the WHO and individuals like Bill Gates wield so much power and influence, without ever being held accountable for their policies and actions. The House of Parliament is a charade, a bunch of actors pretending to do what they are purported to be there for. It is time for people to realise that.

159132 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to mjr, 5, #756 of 2160 🔗

They amount of time wasted suggests much of it is just theatre and some kind of horse trading exercise.

Those who sign up show resistance but vote it through anyway.

159136 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to mjr, 5, #757 of 2160 🔗

Same as Bercow what the establishment wants they get just he is rigidly applying the rules to give it to them and Bercow bent the rules.
The people lose either way

159156 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to 6097 Smith W, 1, #758 of 2160 🔗


159147 ▶▶ Mark, replying to mjr, 22, #759 of 2160 🔗

Not necessarily a big deal. An amendment would in practice just have been a way for more fudging of the issue to be brought in.

Now we have a clear yes/no on the Act and MPs are forced to choose between doing the job they were elected for by voting down this completely unjustifiable enabling act, or obeying their party hierarchy’s orders, Labour and Conservative, to abdicate their most basic and personal responsibility to their constituents.

How each MP votes should be remembered, and each should be judged by his or her vote on this. Never forget,. Never forgive.

159167 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 2, #760 of 2160 🔗

Agree – the key thing is the vote on the renewal of the act itself.

In some ways the speaker may have done us a favour by pushing some MPs into voting against it as their only mechanism for registering dissent.

159181 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 4, #761 of 2160 🔗

Yes, on the other hand it will mean that many MPs will fall into line because they lack the testicular fortitude to vote openly against their party leadership and what they assume is the mob’s preference.

We shall see who has the guts for the game.

159174 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to mjr, 5, #762 of 2160 🔗

Good – now it’s a straight yes/no vote to extending or removing the legislation.

Let the MPs nail their colours to the mast and then we can see who are the gutless, spineless, supine cowards and who deserves our support.

159201 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #763 of 2160 🔗

Hear hear.
E-mail both sorts, as appropriate.

159081 Basics, replying to Basics, 8, #764 of 2160 🔗

Speaker now trying to give gov bollocking over SI usage.

Speaker unable under SO16 to extend todays debate beyond 90 mins.

159099 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Basics, 4, #765 of 2160 🔗


159100 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 6, #766 of 2160 🔗


Interview with the German doctor who was arrested at Speakers Corner.

159220 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #767 of 2160 🔗

An essential resource for illustrating the development of a police state aimed at suppressing the truth.

159102 John Stone, 1, #768 of 2160 🔗

Regarding the schizophrenic nature of the Telegraph. The Telegraph runs an ominously named Global Health Security section, a title presumably relating to Obama’s shifty Global Health Security Agenda, the precursor the present catastrophe.



I imagine Gates is involved in it somewhere and maybe there is some kind of contractual obligation to serve up this garbage.

159120 JohnMac, #769 of 2160 🔗

Blast, that evidently didn’t work.

159123 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #770 of 2160 🔗

About an Italian TV report rom 2015:


Five years ago, Italian state owned media Company, Rai – Radiotelevisione Italiana , exposed dark efforts by China on viruses. The video, which was broadcast in November, 2015, showed how Chinese scientists were doing biological experiments on a SARS connected virus believed to be Coronavirus, derived from bats and mice, asking whether it was worth the risk in order to be able to modify the virus for compatibility with human organisms.”

159158 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #771 of 2160 🔗

I’m sure our probing MSM will be all over this one – lol!

159128 Basics, replying to Basics, 14, #773 of 2160 🔗

Simple effective stat from Simon Dolan.

“Simon Dolan #KBF
Flu killed 10 times more Brits than coronavirus last week for 14th week in a row.

A little perspective goes a long way.”


159154 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Basics, 7, #774 of 2160 🔗

a few days ago Simon tweeted that 10,000 people have now made a donation to the legal challenge to the UK Government lockdown https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/lockdownlegalchallenge/

159427 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Basics, #775 of 2160 🔗

Do will know how mortality rates for flu at this time of year compare with the last year’s figures?

One would expect them to be lower, much lower indeed, with all the Covid precautions in place.

159134 Awkward Git, 3, #776 of 2160 🔗

No wonder the video of the interview was taken off youtube:


Then mysteriously he drops dead for no apparent reason:


Coincidence upon coincidence.

159142 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 53, #777 of 2160 🔗

My email, today, to Sarah Atherton, MP for Wrexham:

Dear Mrs Atherton MP,

I hope that you too will add your voice to those of your colleagues in Clwyd West and Vale of Clwyd. Wrexham’s lockdown is a disgrace and will cause untold damage to the county’s already frail economy. It needs to be ended now. Cases do not equate to hospitalisations and deaths. There is no emergency situation in the Maelor hospital, apart from a surge in mental health issues and delayed operations and cancer treatments.

“Clwyd West MP David Jones claimed Conwy and Denbighshire have been put into lockdown “by ministerial fiat” on the strength of a low number of cases.

And Vale of Clwyd MP Dr James Davies said he has sought justification from the Welsh Government over the movehttps:// twitter.com/JamesDavies/status/1311042030898905088?s=19 .”


Her almost immediate reply:

I fully agree. I have contacted the Welsh Government to let them know that it is a gross overreaction and that I want this lockdown lifted ASAP.

Take care,

Sarah Atherton MP

I think I can give that response a “huzzah!”

159163 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Mr Dee, 4, #778 of 2160 🔗


159196 ▶▶ annie, replying to Mr Dee, 5, #779 of 2160 🔗

Well done, Princess Sarah!

159248 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #780 of 2160 🔗

Cheeriest thing I have seen all day.

159144 Humanity First, 11, #781 of 2160 🔗

The UN Ignores NGO’s Warnings About Mandated Vaccines

An official UN-Affiliated NGO has definitively walloped the United Nations over mandated vaccine policies that are sweeping the world, exposing massive UN hypocrisy in following its own regulations, policies and guidelines. This report is posted on the UN’s own website!

Why would the UN violate its own policies? Because it is chock full of Technocrats who are dedicated to the total control of all people on planet earth. TN has already discussed the utter lack of ethics and morality in this Technocrat mindset, where the ends justify the means.”

“. ..compulsory vaccination violates the right to informed consent, one of the most fundamental ethics in medicine and a human right recognized under international law, including the United Nations International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights of 1966, the Universal Declaration on Bioethics and Human Rights of 2005, the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities and its Optional Protocol of 2006 and under internationally recognized agreements such as the Council for International Organizations of Medical Sciences International Ethical Guidelines for Biomedical Research Involving Human Subjects of 2002, and the World Medical Association Declaration Of Helsinki of 1964, revised in 2013.


159152 Basics, replying to Basics, 22, #782 of 2160 🔗

Nothing like a bit of cognitive dissonance around a talisman.

“Fury as easyJet passengers unmask on packed Edinburgh plane to eat meals
‘Completely negating the point of passengers wearing masks because they took them off’

“EasyJet has come under fire after serving meals on a packed Edinburgh-bound flight, which only lasted an hour, amid the pandemic.

“Gerry Darley had been travelling to the capital from Bristol when he boarded the budget airline’s plane.

“Taking photos of the packed flight, he blasted that the situation was an “absolute joke”, insisting there was no social distancing on board.”

“However, Gerry hit back that food was served on the short flight which meant passengers on the cramped flight had to take off their masks to eat.”

I don’t think Gerry is fit to use public transport. He is at ease commanding and condeming the reasonable actions of others. It would be too snidey to make comment that taking a flight from Bristol to Edinburgh is a ridiculous waste of energy, get on the train. Gerry appears to be a little unwise choosing to take a plane during an episode of personal unthink and anxiety.

159157 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Basics, 14, #783 of 2160 🔗

Gerry needs to be re-programmed to use his brain.

159195 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to jhfreedom, 6, #784 of 2160 🔗

What brain?

159390 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to jhfreedom, 2, #785 of 2160 🔗

And locked down until he comes to his (common) senses.

159159 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Basics, 9, #786 of 2160 🔗

Bizarre isn’t it. Poor old Gerry, obviously his mental health is suffering.

159282 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to leggy, 3, #787 of 2160 🔗

Long Covid

159172 ▶▶ jb12, replying to Basics, 13, #788 of 2160 🔗

I despise that we live in a world where Gerry’s unsolicited opinion is newsworthy.

159222 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to jb12, 2, #789 of 2160 🔗

it isn’t newsworthy it’s propaganda

gerry darley likely doesn’t exist to boot

159176 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Basics, 2, #790 of 2160 🔗

Gerry is a whopper

159178 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Basics, 8, #791 of 2160 🔗

Gerry is somebody I would put into the “I shower more often than you therefore I am cleaner than you” category.

The simple fact is if he truly believed in doing everything he can to save lives he would not leave his home or interact with anybody, ever. Even wearing a mask 24/7 would not be enough.

Therefore he is merely projecting his view on what he himself has decided is the arbitrary line of what doing enough entails.

159200 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Basics, 7, #792 of 2160 🔗

Gerry Darley is a complete arse.

if he’s thats cared he can stay at home.

159208 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Basics, 3, #793 of 2160 🔗

Trying to find a link to a Gerry Darley, there is not very many at a ll.

Flight was going to Bristol and only Gerry I can find with links to Bristol or Edinburgh is this guy:


Not a good advertisement for his employers if it is him is it?

Either that to it’s a fake story as most of the passengers in the photo have masks on.

159728 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, #794 of 2160 🔗

I looked, he’s not listed on their website anymore.

159218 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Basics, 1, #795 of 2160 🔗

Gerry is an idiot, and should probably stop travelling altogether.

But Bristol to Edinburgh by train takes between 6 and 7 hours, let the plane take the strain!

159221 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 4, #796 of 2160 🔗

Gerry is a plant a made up nobody to scare people. Fuck of Gerry and fuck off whoever decided to write this shit

159225 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Basics, 4, #797 of 2160 🔗

No one had to take their masks off if they didn’t want to, surely? If they did, they’d obviously decided that going without food for 1 hour was a worse prospect than catching covid.

And I didn’t think any airlines were imposing “social distancing” anyway?

159286 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Basics, 2, #798 of 2160 🔗

What a maroon!

159318 ▶▶ AnotherSceptic, replying to Basics, 2, #799 of 2160 🔗

Gerry is a dick. & a Grass…Gerry the Grass.

159439 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Basics, 1, #800 of 2160 🔗

insisting there was no social distancing on board.”

Didn’t realise they’d increased the size of aircraft?

159767 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, #801 of 2160 🔗

Hope Gerry Darley realises he’s tagged himself for life with this babble.

159168 Mark, replying to Mark, 16, #802 of 2160 🔗

The interview with Sunetra Gupta is very good and touched on one of the most important issues raised by this panic – the active suppression of dissent, even within the scientific community. She said:

The editor of the Lancet this morning tweeted that our position was “dangerous”, that we recommended the Swedish model, that that was a “dangerous” position. I mean this sort of language has no place in academia, and I don’t think it has any place in the public idiom, so I find it very strange that people are going down this route .”

Note that, as Will also reports, the interviewer was censored on Twitter for posting a dissenting opinion, under the comically Orwellian pretence that her dissent was “abuse and harassment”. The point is that we only hear about this when it happens to someone with a platform to mention it, such as this columnist. But it’s happening routinely everywhere that big tech controls discourse – Twitter, Facebook, Youtube. These bodies are systematically biasing the public debate, and have been throughout.

The inherently anti-democratic threat to free political discussion from the big tech companies is not new, it’s just that previously it was mostly deployed to enforce Official Truth dogmas by way of “hate speech” pretexts, and was widely accepted. As indeed the current censorship mostly is, but it has brought it to the attention of a lot of people who were not bothered about political dissent being suppressed previously.

159250 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Mark, 7, #803 of 2160 🔗

The editor of the Lancet is a self-avowed Marxist. His role in the whole saga needs to be investigated – all email and text traffic from 23 January 2020 needs to be seized for any inquiry, assuming there ever is one. What Gupta describes is how we have ended up with ‘97% of scientists agree that climate change is man-made’. It is amazing that 3% are allowed to disagree, but then it would look like a stitch-up if it was 100%! Of course, as Mr TT knows from bitter experience, any academic who did not agree with the state-mandated narrative, after several rounds of public shaming, having their funding cut and their papers rejected by journals, left the stage.

159179 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 4, #804 of 2160 🔗

Petition Freeze funding to the World Health Organization amid the coronavirus crisis https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/314810

159211 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Victoria, #805 of 2160 🔗

Think they may have bigger private donors

159276 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Victoria, 1, #806 of 2160 🔗


159300 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Victoria, #807 of 2160 🔗


159186 Basics, 6, #808 of 2160 🔗

Carl Vernon and hero geordie chef will put a smile on your face in under 2 minutes.


159190 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 12, #809 of 2160 🔗

From the Telegraph live feed. Imagine this was your wedding. Imagine the lifetime of memories you’d be left with after this ultimate indignation. The police could have left it, and if necessary, dealt with the proprietor after the event, but no, they had to go in and “break up” the reception. The police are scum of the most disgusting kind; the lowest form of life.

Wedding venue closed down after manager hit with £10,000 fine

A wedding venue has been ordered to close and the manager slapped with a £10,000 fine after being found to have breached Covid-19 guidance around nuptials.

Police raided Grand Park Hall, Luton on September 23, following reports that more than 100 guests were gathered there.

Weddings were allowed just 30 guests at the time, a number that has since been cut to 15, and so a dispersal order was issued by police.

Bedfordshire Police yesterday issued a £10,000 fixed penalty notice to the manager who was on duty at the time.

The venue has now been ordered to close indefinitely by Luton Council, and will only be able to reopen on the proviso that it is Covid-secure.

Councillor Jacqui Burnett, portfolio holder in charge of enforcement in Luton, described it as a “shocking and dangerous breach” of public health restrictions.

159194 ▶▶ annie, replying to Tenchy, 9, #810 of 2160 🔗

Dangerous, yes.
The bastards.

159199 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 17, #811 of 2160 🔗

Manchester Evening News: Manchester lockdown students ‘party into early hours as security can’t get in’.

This line stood out for me:
“On Sunday night, the university also said that students can consider their entire hall, not just their flat, as their ‘bubble’ and therefore mix between households”.

How can the Uni permit or not permit anything?

159237 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to Tom Blackburn, 10, #812 of 2160 🔗

This is precisely what they’re doing although agree it’s without any legal standing. At my daughter’s college they were proposing to lock communal facilities such as kitchen and laundry room ( for a block of 30). They were told to Only interact with the students on their floor ( even if not within their friendship groups)- even to the point of being told not to use toilet/ shower facilities ( when you need to go you need to go!). They relented slightly and opened up the kitchen but were told each floor can use it one day per week ( apparently you have to cook for the week then freeze it then microwave your meals in your room). But you still have to go into the kitchen to retrieve your frozen meal. It’s all such utter b&ll£cks and the students know it – no wonder they’re kicking off!!

159278 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Telpin, 7, #813 of 2160 🔗

Being prevented from going to the loo is classed as inhumane treatment and is the only right (I think) that is 100% unqualified. Even the right to life has caveats attached (serving in the armed forces etc). Where are the human rights lawyers when you need them?

159294 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Telpin, 6, #814 of 2160 🔗

If it were my children I’d remove them ASAP and bring them home.

159357 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Telpin, #815 of 2160 🔗

Sounds like the Maze. Dirty protest incoming then.

159423 ▶▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to mhcp, 1, #816 of 2160 🔗

The kids when they finally open the gates

159454 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Telpin, 1, #817 of 2160 🔗

Never before has so much power been given to so many idiots.

159216 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 22, #818 of 2160 🔗

Feel sorry for the hapless families who have had to cancel their children’s birthday parties and the points they raised are good – the need for children to socialise as part of their development and the knock on effects the cancellations have economically.

Hats off as well to Gilbert Jackson for his impassioned letter to his MP and this has led me to believe that this is one silver lining out of this shit show.

With the students currently being shafted by their universities and experiencing genuine problems such as loss of freedom, loneliness, anxiety, depression then they’re not going to accept any woke crap and manufactured problems that’s being pumped out by the NUS, their lecturers and the universities in general.

It’s not only the pushback against the Covid narrative that we are seeing but also perhaps the young are also waking up against the dominant woke narrative about systemic racism, intersectionality and whatever else they constantly go on about.

159229 ▶▶ JohnMac, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #819 of 2160 🔗

Spot on, Bart. Who says your sister’s the bright one?

159223 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 7, #820 of 2160 🔗

Scotland just recorded the highest number of deaths (7) since mid-June. Of course, nothing to do with this evening’s vote in HoC. What have they done, killed a few people off in one of the care homes?

159228 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 7, #821 of 2160 🔗

“Saved” a few deaths up to be reported today perhaps?

159251 ▶▶▶ dpj, replying to Nick Rose, 6, #822 of 2160 🔗

The wording is ‘ The first minister confirms seven additional deaths were registered in the last 24 hours of people who tested positive, meaning the total rises to 2,519.’

I am very cynical about everything she says now so these could be people who died some time recently who had a positive test result so not necessarily of covid and possibly not in last 24 hours.

159309 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to dpj, 3, #823 of 2160 🔗

Of course, they have been reported to herr sturgeon in the last 24 hours, could of died last week for all we know

159432 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to dpj, #824 of 2160 🔗

We can’t believe the numbers they give us. The UK as a whole announced 71 deaths yesterday, the highest number since 1st July.

159231 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #825 of 2160 🔗

I’m sure I read something the other day about Socttish death reporting being delayed for a couple of days?

159289 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to A. Contrarian, 10, #826 of 2160 🔗

I think we must never forget this is psychological warfare against the people by our government. They are deliberately attacking our liberty and freedom all in the name of keeping us safe!! Keeping us safe by lowering our immune systems, keeping us in a constant state of anxiety, and denying us proper NHS care. In short it’s a crime against humanity.

159434 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #827 of 2160 🔗

Happy to run with that statement.

159447 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #828 of 2160 🔗

Yep, what the hell is wrong with people?

159224 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 24, #829 of 2160 🔗

Lindsay Hoyle, the Speaker, has decided not to accept any amendments to the Coronavirus Act, thus ensuring that this legal fig leaf for authoritarian government by ministerial decree will remain in force unamended. Amazingly, his speech of justification for the decision criticised the government for legislating without parliamentary scrutiny, which in his judgement is contempt of the House. This is beyond satire.

159233 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #830 of 2160 🔗

What time is the vote? When can we expect the results?

159242 ▶▶▶ Ed Phillips, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #831 of 2160 🔗
159255 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #832 of 2160 🔗

What vote?

159238 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Steve Hayes, 8, #833 of 2160 🔗

It could be, it may be that this will allow MPs to distance themselves from the decisions made by Johnson and Hancock when it comes to SI’s. Possibility of a stalking horse popping up soon, methinks.

159256 ▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #834 of 2160 🔗

A Gove shaped horse?

159263 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to KBuchanan, 2, #835 of 2160 🔗

He hasn’t got a cat in hell’s chance of getting the nod, in my view.

159416 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to KBuchanan, 1, #836 of 2160 🔗

Somebody like Steve Baker, the stalking horse is usually put up to fail. That’s when you end up with Gove and Sunak battling for it. But it’s a maybe, might, perhaps.

160144 ▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to KBuchanan, #837 of 2160 🔗

He is currently employed as a lorry park attendant.

159266 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #838 of 2160 🔗

Yes, suspect there is one ready. Anyone who signed the amendment would surely be happy to submit a letter to Sir Graham for his drawer. Not sure how many is needed, but 50 seems about the right number.

159419 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #839 of 2160 🔗

The knives are certainly being sharpened. Tories are very good at smelling blood in the water. Stabbing the leader in the back was ever their trademark.

159474 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Nick Rose, 5, #840 of 2160 🔗

Agree. In this case they really need to get on with it – Boris is mentally ill and his advisers are out of control. It needs a ‘grey hairs’ caretaker.

159271 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Steve Hayes, #841 of 2160 🔗

It proves he’s no different than the rest of them.

159226 Draper233, 8, #842 of 2160 🔗

“Repeal the Coronavirus Act 2020” – this has gone up by well over 5000 in the last 24 hours, which I think in Witty and Vallance’s world can be classed as exponential growth.

Please keep sharing with friends, family and work colleagues who are sympathetic.

159236 CGL, replying to CGL, #843 of 2160 🔗

Did someone post a couple of days ago that Spain had lowered their threshold for testing and that case numbers had decreased?

159285 ▶▶ Julian, replying to CGL, 2, #844 of 2160 🔗

Yes, they did indeed. I think the figures quoted were something like a drop from 11,000ish to 3,000ish

159313 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Julian, 1, #845 of 2160 🔗

Thank you – that’s what I thought I’d seen.

159347 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to CGL, 1, #846 of 2160 🔗

Can you imagine Wancock agreeing to such a thing here?

159372 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #847 of 2160 🔗

No – don’t be daft! I was thinking of using it as something simple for the non-sceptics to ponder over.

159491 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to CGL, 1, #848 of 2160 🔗

It’s speculation simply because of the drop seen. It would indicate methodology changes. Unless anyone has a source?

159501 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #849 of 2160 🔗

Ah – ok

159241 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 8, #850 of 2160 🔗

Manchester Evening News story about bars banning MPs – “You don’t serve us, so we won’t serve you”. First comment:

 Look, I’m sad for the troubles your businesses face, but nothing trumps human life. If it’s a choice between losing the night life and losing actual life I know which I’d find an acceptable loss.

159252 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Sam Vimes, 15, #851 of 2160 🔗

So the people dying unnecessarily of cancer / sepsis / heart disease / stroke / suicide because of the selfishness of people like this don’t count? Red rage time.

159377 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to CGL, 3, #852 of 2160 🔗

Wearing a mask, distancing, hiding, agreeing with the government…it all kills the economy, promotes terror and KILLS.

159259 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Sam Vimes, 6, #853 of 2160 🔗

Someone hasn’t heard the expression about the thin end of the wedge.

159261 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Sam Vimes, 17, #854 of 2160 🔗

Presumably not concerned that 1million women have not had their routine mammogram then – happy to kill mum, sister or auntie but not grandma! What is wrong with these people, do they not understand that there are only two certainties in life – death and taxes?

159281 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 10, #855 of 2160 🔗

Also routine bowel cancer screening all stopped as of February.
So they are quite content for one of the biggest killers and controllable diseases if caught early to rage through the population and worry about some people possibly having the sniffles instead.

159435 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #856 of 2160 🔗

They dont understand – period. My partner, a mate’s wife and another mate’s mum have all had breast cancer in the last five or six years, all treated and all ok. Wouldn’t be the case now. Plus, a pub mate was treated for lung cancer early this year. Move that forward three months and he’d be dead.

159469 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #857 of 2160 🔗

Many cancers are curable if caught early. I want every minister (and MP) to sit in the chemo room, then the private rooms off the general ward, with a terminally ill young mum or dad, spending their last days with their young kids. I’ve seen that first hand. They all disgust me!

159264 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Sam Vimes, 18, #858 of 2160 🔗

I’m sick and tired of these sorts of comments. There will come a time, sooner rather than later I think, where these kind of people will need to be violently confronted.

159409 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Richard O, #859 of 2160 🔗

I can see that happening, as soon as people begin to realise they lost loved ones thanks to our reaction to the virus, rather than due to the virus itself. Is this a reason why Covid appears on so many death certificates?

159269 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sam Vimes, 10, #860 of 2160 🔗

Says the person whose income is secure, no doubt.

159280 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Smith, replying to kh1485, 18, #861 of 2160 🔗

Indeed. An acquaintance of mine with a secure tenured job in higher education appalled me by saying he didn’t care how long lockdown lasted because he found it quite agreeable. That’s socialists for you.

159299 ▶▶▶▶ JohnMac, replying to Jonathan Smith, 4, #862 of 2160 🔗

I had a teacher friend with much the same attitude.

159302 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #863 of 2160 🔗

Bollocks, how many people die of alcohol poisening

159311 ▶▶ FlynnQuill, replying to Sam Vimes, 8, #864 of 2160 🔗

This kind of virtue signalling makes me sick to the stomach. Dying is part of human life, dead is dead whether it is from covid, flu, cancer etc. People die every single day of many different things. So is this utter tw@t saying we should ruin the country for everyone that dies or is it just covid deaths that count? Cancer et al can jog on. What a scum bag.

159379 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to FlynnQuill, 4, #865 of 2160 🔗

Yep. Covid is currently the 24th killer in the UK…Virtual signalling half wittery by the brain dead is what it is

159375 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Sam Vimes, #866 of 2160 🔗

It is NOT that binary!! Please someone get on the comments and disabuse that fool of his idiotic analysis of the trade-offs…

159393 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Sam Vimes, #867 of 2160 🔗

Should reply, ” So, you believe #OnlyCovidDeathsCount ?”

159243 Draper233, replying to Draper233, 26, #868 of 2160 🔗

Just read this from the Guardian about the Coronavirus Act 2020:

The Lib Dems have said they will vote against renewing the act. Its leader, Ed Davey, said the party had “deep reservations about the serious implications for people’s wellbeing, rights and freedoms … Most alarming to me is the watering down of care for elderly, disabled and vulnerable people. That is a red line issue.”

159253 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Draper233, 21, #869 of 2160 🔗

My goodness, Lib Dems being slightly liberal and democratic?!!?

159260 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Youth_Unheard, 13, #870 of 2160 🔗

Amazing. How many years has that taken them?

159267 ▶▶▶ Draper233, replying to Youth_Unheard, 8, #871 of 2160 🔗

I think they’re looking at this as their “Iraq War” moment all over again.

Encouraging, but let’s see whether Davey has the balls to reject lockdowns and mask wearing.

159268 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Youth_Unheard, 3, #872 of 2160 🔗

I’m shocked 😲

159270 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Smith, replying to Youth_Unheard, 3, #873 of 2160 🔗

I know… thought that had become a vague memory.

159283 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Draper233, 6, #874 of 2160 🔗

Crikey! Are they being liberal and democratic! Can’t remember last time that happened.

159317 ▶▶▶ Draper233, replying to Mr Dee, 6, #875 of 2160 🔗

What I like is that he appears to be including actual public health reasons to oppose the Coronavirus Act.

This is very much in line with the sceptics view that lockdowns and other measures cause far more damage than Covid-19 ever can.

159321 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Draper233, 2, #876 of 2160 🔗

How did we see this months before everyone in charge?

159354 ▶▶▶▶▶ Draper233, replying to CGL, 4, #877 of 2160 🔗

Well, Vallance is on record supporting the idea of herd immunity and targeting protection of the vulnerable earlier this year.

The reason for a total U-turn is a matter of conjecture.

159394 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Draper233, 3, #878 of 2160 🔗

If he spoke out against the Coronavirus Act, I’d speak highly of the Devil.

159342 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Draper233, 6, #879 of 2160 🔗

My MP is Lib Dem and has given every appearance of being very pro-lockdown. She even had herself photographed in the local paper out on her bike in the middle of the countryside whilst wearing a mask patterned with our town flag – just to stay safe.

159388 ▶▶▶ Draper233, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #880 of 2160 🔗

Haha, tragic.

Depends when it was taken. A lot of MPs are using the “it made sense back in March” argument, which I am prepared to allow them as a get out.

The Labour Party, on the other hand, are “ expected to vote to renew the act, making it unlikely the government will be defeated.”

Gutless. Starmer has lost my vote already.

159396 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Draper233, 1, #881 of 2160 🔗

True. It was around April or May I think.

159421 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Draper233, 2, #882 of 2160 🔗

Never had mine, and now he’s lost it double every seven days…

159440 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Draper233, 3, #883 of 2160 🔗

They are lying, it’s just a cynical vote grabber. If they get any sort of power they will just go into parntership with the Tories, tow the line and become totally irrelevant. Just like last time.

159244 Bella Donna, 7, #884 of 2160 🔗

I love that meme. Drink up and Pxxx Off!

159247 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 23, #885 of 2160 🔗


comment image

159258 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Sam Vimes, 11, #886 of 2160 🔗

How appropriate on the day that parliamentary democracy finally dies.

159265 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #887 of 2160 🔗

Brilliant shot!

159272 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #888 of 2160 🔗

Sieg Heil!

159279 ▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to wendyk, 9, #889 of 2160 🔗

Not the same without a beautifully tailored Hugo Boss uniform. But the essence is there.

159436 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Thomas_E, #890 of 2160 🔗

Do Hugo Boss make uniforms that large?

159452 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Ewan Duffy, 2, #891 of 2160 🔗

He must of,to fit goering

159297 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Sam Vimes, 5, #892 of 2160 🔗

Think we need a caption competition:-

“The science now tells us that if you keep your head below this height you will be safe from the virus.”

159305 ▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Achilles, 5, #893 of 2160 🔗

”To All you lockdown sceptics, that is the way to the trains!

159371 ▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Thomas_E, 3, #894 of 2160 🔗

Please mark up your luggage, it will be sent on.

Never has my sarcasm felt so serious…

159381 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to jhfreedom, 2, #895 of 2160 🔗

Still better than the “New Normal”

159307 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Achilles, 4, #896 of 2160 🔗

“Hands up anyone who doesn’t understand the rules any more”

159324 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Achilles, 9, #897 of 2160 🔗

Less subtle caption

159345 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to zacaway, 6, #898 of 2160 🔗

Covid, covid uber alles

Uber alles in der welt

159426 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #899 of 2160 🔗

The mask has already been called today’s equivalent of the Hitler salute- a Gessler’s hat.

159257 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #900 of 2160 🔗

Why not use our handy tool to put yourself on a watchlist? [Scroll down to below pictures]


159298 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #901 of 2160 🔗

The recommendations were intended to maintain social distancing and prevent people from having to raise their voices, which increases the risk of coronavirus transmission

How can anyone in their right mind believe that crap??

I’ve been to gigs, football matches and work with a shitty lurgy and haven’t infected everyone.

159368 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to stefarm, 2, #902 of 2160 🔗

You may have done, but only 0.03% would have died of it. Let’s face it we’ve probably all passed on colds and viruses which have led to someone’s demise. That is life.

159262 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 62, #903 of 2160 🔗

Students partying at Coventry university: Party on,dudes.
From a 71 year old.

159330 ▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to Fingerache Philip., 10, #904 of 2160 🔗


159364 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Fingerache Philip., 9, #905 of 2160 🔗

Good for them and good for YOU for saying that. Rock on.

159284 Paul, replying to Paul, 14, #906 of 2160 🔗

My wife has just had her 6 monthly consultation with her specialist at the hospital,by telephone for the second time this year,she asked him if he thought the one due next March would actually be face to face,his response,’no,probably not,cases of the virus are rising dangerously’.

159287 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Paul, 24, #907 of 2160 🔗

But obviously cases of common sense are not.

159293 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Paul, 5, #908 of 2160 🔗

Wonder how they decide, a family friend, 93 had a cataract op on Monday.

159303 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, #909 of 2160 🔗

In Edinburgh

159315 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #910 of 2160 🔗

Postcode lottery?

159332 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Dan Clarke, 7, #911 of 2160 🔗

I’ve been waiting for an appointment with the eye surgeon since February! I’m told no cataract ops this year. I even approached a private hospital to be told the same thing. Meanwhile my sight in my left eye worsens by the month.

159301 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Paul, 7, #912 of 2160 🔗

How can they know so far in advance? Or what do they know that we don’t? I spoke to a doc at our surgery and she said this is going on for months – why?

159314 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Paul, 6, #913 of 2160 🔗

Gimme strength! What do they teach them in medical school?

159361 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Paul, 1, #914 of 2160 🔗

She should change consultant, he sounds like a madman.

159374 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Paul, 4, #915 of 2160 🔗

How strange, a medical doctor who fears illness in others…

159378 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Paul, 3, #916 of 2160 🔗

Happy to say I had a face to face orthopaedic appointment today. It needed an xray, cancelled initially and then reinstated but only a week late. Very efficient. They also were fine about my lack of mask ( I did use a visor).

159288 Jaz, replying to Jaz, #917 of 2160 🔗

How do you post images in the comments? I have a great image I’d like to share

159312 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jaz, 1, #918 of 2160 🔗

Copy image location, not the image.
Doesn’t always work ….

159333 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Cheezilla, #919 of 2160 🔗

On PC, there’s an image upload option in the bottom right corner of this box:

159337 ▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to leggy, #920 of 2160 🔗

I don’t get that icon …. what’s going on?

159343 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, #921 of 2160 🔗

Ah, I had to re-log in. I thought we were permanently logged in. Obviously not.

159355 ▶▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Tenchy, #922 of 2160 🔗

Thanks Leggy, been wondering what to look for.

Sadly I never get that icon – must be my desktop

159370 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Victoria, #923 of 2160 🔗

You need to be logged in

159369 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tenchy, 1, #924 of 2160 🔗

You need to be logged in

159323 ▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to Jaz, 1, #925 of 2160 🔗

Register and login at the top. You get an image icon then.

159329 ▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to Jaz, #926 of 2160 🔗

You need to register first, then you’ll see a small mountain icon bottom right of the comments box. 👍

159304 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 4, #927 of 2160 🔗

Anyone living in Chester – lockdown on the way soon for you too I’m afraid, unless you can mobilise opposition now.


159308 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mr Dee, 6, #928 of 2160 🔗

It’s like a plague creeping down the country!

159365 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #929 of 2160 🔗

Best to ignore them. Didn’t work last time, why should I waste my time with these idiots again?

159413 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #930 of 2160 🔗

We need more clarity. I’m never sure just what I’m ignoring…

159320 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Mr Dee, 5, #931 of 2160 🔗

At some point they will have to admit that we’re essentially in a national lockdown in all but name.

159359 ▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #932 of 2160 🔗

National lockdown, postcode by postcode.

159363 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Thinkaboutit, 4, #933 of 2160 🔗

London postcodes last of course.

159389 ▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tom Blackburn, #934 of 2160 🔗

Not if Khan gets his way!

159414 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Draper233, replying to A. Contrarian, 8, #935 of 2160 🔗

I didn’t want to reduce this to personal attacks, but Khan is a nauseating little shit.

How else to describe somebody who advocates mandatory mask wearing in all public places in London?

159392 ▶▶▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #936 of 2160 🔗

that could get interesting- London boundaries and post codes differ- we will soon know when Middlesex is locked down

159410 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #937 of 2160 🔗

If at all.

159407 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Thinkaboutit, 6, #938 of 2160 🔗

A postcode lottery but with no annoying twats knocking on your door with a giant cheque for £30,000.

159438 ▶▶▶▶▶ Draper233, replying to Sarigan, 1, #939 of 2160 🔗

Perhaps they’ll rework the ad to start presenting the £10,000 fines that way.

The zealots would love it!

159675 ▶▶ Polemon2, replying to Mr Dee, #940 of 2160 🔗

Opposition – forget it. My local councilor more or less admitted that she/they have virtually no influence on such decisions. Daspite Andy Burnham, Joe Anderson, etc self publicity grandstanding.

159319 2 pence, replying to 2 pence, 8, #941 of 2160 🔗

Bankers’ Corona Coup: UK Gov’t Debt Tops £2 Trillion – With No End in Sight


159326 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to 2 pence, 8, #942 of 2160 🔗

It is the largest financial coup in history, and the mainstream media are hardly talking about it.

We will all be paying for this for the rest of our lives. Get used to grinding poverty folks.

159350 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Richard O, 4, #943 of 2160 🔗

That’s what happens when you consistently live beyond your means. That’s been with us since the 1940s I’m afraid. There are very few countries that have done much different, except perhaps Germany, where the terror of inflation is cultural.

There is a way out, but we’ll never be able to borrow money on the markets again.

159358 ▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #944 of 2160 🔗

And yet the yield on the 10-year UK Treasury gilt is just 0.2%, so global investors are not punishing us yet for our stupidity. This gives the government licence to keep on indulging The Madness since no one will cut off their funding.

159476 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to jhfreedom, #945 of 2160 🔗

Plus the Bank of England’s latest round of QE.

159484 ▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to jhfreedom, #946 of 2160 🔗

A speculative guess is because of the City. The washing machine for global finance. They are indespensible to keep the show going

159450 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to 2 pence, 4, #947 of 2160 🔗

This is the REAL story. Masks are a fantastic distraction to prevent focus on this.

160209 ▶▶▶ helen, replying to Tee Ell, 2, #948 of 2160 🔗

Yes well said Tee, they are a means of prolonging the myth, like all other measures. Biding time while the economy is demolished and rights bit by bit removed, its horrifying to observe vandalism on a monumental scale and tyranny creeping in, while the clueless populace focus on ‘staying safe and saving lives’. They are indeed in imminent danger… but not from a virus.

159327 Bartleby, replying to Bartleby, 4, #949 of 2160 🔗

“Covid-19 Vaccine Protocols Reveal That Trials Are Designed To Succeed” – interesting article from Forbes which may not be that comforting for those pinning their hopes on a vaccine.
Link: https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2020/09/23/covid-19-vaccine-protocols-reveal-that-trials-are-designed-to-succeed/amp/

159338 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Bartleby, 7, #950 of 2160 🔗

I don’t think any of us here believe the goal of any mass delivered vaccine is to give people immunity do we?

159344 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to leggy, 2, #951 of 2160 🔗

Not at the speed they’re producing it, or trying to.

160179 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Bartleby, #953 of 2160 🔗

It justs shows you how low a bar they are setting.
This is approval at all costs and the regulators will let them get away with it.

159335 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 13, #954 of 2160 🔗


Some good fear-mongering here and even a mention of Toby.

Apparently if the government had told him that you might catch the virus by going to schools and other public places, he might have stopped doing so in March, but since in 74 years he seemingly hasn’t noticed that viruses can be caught from other people, he didn’t stop going because the government didn’t tell him to, so it’s the government’s fault that he caught it…

159340 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to A. Contrarian, 6, #955 of 2160 🔗

The convoluted logic of the victim theorist.

159398 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #956 of 2160 🔗

No – simply the biased view of someone who’s been badly scared, and sees things through that lens of a particular experience.

Just not a Tory like Elwood doing it for recreation and self advancement.

159339 Jonathan Smith, replying to Jonathan Smith, 7, #957 of 2160 🔗

We all know the NHS has been phoning it in for months now, but has anyone seen the standard letter for a “telephone consultation” with a specialist? It takes ages to sort out when they don’t ring on the appointed day, never mind the appointed hour… And then if patients can’t be reached they are discharged back to their GP. Great way to cut burgeoning waiting lists.

159360 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Jonathan Smith, 7, #958 of 2160 🔗

Catch-22 – Try getting into a GP surgery!

159362 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Jonathan Smith, 5, #959 of 2160 🔗

Wonder how countries without an NHS are managing!!!

159341 PoshPanic, replying to PoshPanic, 10, #960 of 2160 🔗

Pantomime dames are marching on Downing Street. Apparently protesting against the closures of theatres and Panto season.

Look out for those men with hard truncheons…ooohh!

159351 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to PoshPanic, 2, #961 of 2160 🔗

“He’s behind you!!!”

159466 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Thinkaboutit, #962 of 2160 🔗

I bet he is!!

159353 ▶▶ Old Mum, replying to PoshPanic, 1, #963 of 2160 🔗

How apt!

159356 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Old Mum, 4, #964 of 2160 🔗

Yes. I thought it was pantomime season since March.

159346 AnotherSceptic, 12, #965 of 2160 🔗

I will just leave this here…



Also…this comment on the above link.

Trust no government.
So you feel like renting a movie. After a slow drive to the video store in which you try to avoid the police from extorting you, you enter a video store with enough security cameras to see parts of you that you’ve never seen. You would rent some porno but today you’ll be paying in credit card and you sure don’t want that census taker knowing you’ve seen all 50 volumes of clamlappers. So instead you rent 1984. The zit face behind the counter scan your card and instantly your personal information and spending history is all over the internet. When you get back home you pop in the tape, you would have a joint, but the government has decided that pot isn’t in your best intrest. Neither is beer, cigarettes, fatty foods, caffine, red meat, abortions, pornography,flag burning, sex in general or any of the other things you use to enjoy. You sit down to watch your movie and relax the rest of the night when storm trooper-like police bust down your door and carry you away. Seems renting 1984 set off an alarm in all local police computers and got you on the thought police’s wanted list. You should know better then to oppose your government in any way, shape, or form. You would fight back but all those gun laws eventually equled up to a ban on the second amendment. Sound like an impossible world? Sounds fictional? Watch it then take a look at the world around you. Your half way there. Enjoy what freedoms you have left before they’re gone. I’m sure one day this movie will be considered illegal.

How true does this ring now? Frightening.

159366 Banjones, replying to Banjones, 17, #966 of 2160 🔗

I am becoming sick of the word ”cases” used to mean positive test results – not deaths, hospital admissions, sick people. It annoys me even more than the use of the word ”elites” to describe these self-serving, arrogant, patronising, unelected public servants who are ruling us.

159400 ▶▶ Draper233, replying to Banjones, 5, #967 of 2160 🔗

Especially when those test results most likely have a huge proportion of false positives.

159453 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Banjones, 3, #968 of 2160 🔗

As well as MSM’s similar use of ‘infections’ and even ‘diagnoses’.

159465 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Banjones, 1, #969 of 2160 🔗

Hang on … a fair number of the bastards were elected … even if you now regret your vote.

159471 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Banjones, 4, #970 of 2160 🔗

I’ve put in a complaint to OFCOM about this and included the FOI answer from the DHSC that clearly states a positive test means nothing and the person does not have coronavirus and anyone that says otherwise is deliberately lying.

They say they should have an answer on there website in two weeks about my complaint and if it will go forward or not.

Anyone want to add to the numbers let me know in tomorrow’s comments and I’ll post link to the FOI answer.

159472 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #971 of 2160 🔗

Plus to the ASA about all the Government Ads suggesting the same.

159373 Nessimmersion, replying to Nessimmersion, 20, #972 of 2160 🔗


159376 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nessimmersion, 8, #973 of 2160 🔗

Thanks, that’s another lunch I’ve just lost.

159408 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Nessimmersion, 8, #974 of 2160 🔗

Tee hee, enough to turn me t total

159428 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Nessimmersion, 5, #975 of 2160 🔗

That will replace the shark in my nightmares. Thanks.

159468 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Nessimmersion, 1, #976 of 2160 🔗

Can’t be unseen

159382 Tee Ell, 28, #977 of 2160 🔗

Had a great chat with my mum last night.

She hasn’t looked in to the science at all, but is appropriately cynical because she knows that the government have a propensity to be rather silly.

She got chatting to a friendly, clearly intelligent and mask-free lady in a North London charity shop and was relieved to hear the lady recounting similar views to me; masks don’t work, the government response has been inept and should have protected care homes rather than enforcing generalised lockdown, that the current policies will do more harm than good and that we should get back to normal immediately.

Of course I had to ask: “Did you find out what her profession was by any chance?”.

“She was a doctor.”

159384 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 21, #978 of 2160 🔗

Denmark Nears Pre-COVID Normality: No Masks Or Distancing In Schools, Just Common Sense
One of the more diabolical aspects of the protracted COVID ‘crisis’ in countries like the United Kingdom, the United States and Australia, is the intellectually dishonest claim that Coronavirus in their countries is somehow different from the Coronavirus in other western countries.

159461 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Sarigan, 1, #979 of 2160 🔗

Great article

159500 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Victoria, 1, #980 of 2160 🔗

Zero Hedge is even more scitzophrenic than The Telegraph. Although the comments section is about 99% full on sceptic.

159690 ▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Sarigan, #981 of 2160 🔗

Sarigan, this is however just one Danish school; o ther schools have other rules (they are allowed to make their own decisions). T his article was posted a couple of days ago, by Basics, iirc. Denmark is, in reality, retreating back into increasing rules around covid: masks to be worn in more places, numbers decreased for events and venues, and ‘infections’ increasing so much that the UK has closed the travel corridor with Denmark. I really wish it wasn’t so as we have a trip booked.

159385 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 33, #982 of 2160 🔗

Has anyone witnessed anything more crazy than this?

I passed an elderly gentleman on the pavement today. At normal range – the pavement was plenty wide enough to pass without any issues and besides we were out in the fresh air with a brisk wind.

With a terrified look when I didn’t leap out into the road, he scuttled into the nearest driveway, turned his head desperately away from me and exhaled loudly and deliberately through his mouth. I can only assume he was attempting to blow my virus-laden breath away from his face whilst simultaneously ensuring he wasn’t breathing in as I passed.

Pre-March, he would have been diagnosed with OCD and given the appropriate treatment. I dread to think how he copes with going round the shops.

159401 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to A. Contrarian, 12, #983 of 2160 🔗

Project Fear reports complete success.

159624 ▶▶▶ Templeton, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #984 of 2160 🔗

Even people you may have considered perfectly normal a few months back have been scared shitless.
Must be fucking awful if you’re proper OCD.

159404 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #985 of 2160 🔗

OCD?? Padded cell

159411 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to A. Contrarian, 21, #986 of 2160 🔗

Absolutely bonkers. Beyond the usual moving over slightly when passing someone , I’ve refused to step into the road or give anyone a particularly wide berth since this madness started. If they want to behave like total twats that’s their call.

159459 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 5, #987 of 2160 🔗

“Absolutely bonkers”

Yes – but recognise the all-embracing propaganda that has led to this. That’s what is truly frightening. The UK Column bit today on BBC Panic dissemination was a very good illustration :

“1m deaths worldwide!!!’

To which the intelligent answer is : ‘And ….?’ – but you have to know the real context and comparators.

159700 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, #988 of 2160 🔗


159418 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to A. Contrarian, 7, #989 of 2160 🔗

I saw a woman who did this a few weeks ago with me and a couple of guys I was talking to. First she stopped, my mate moved back a bit, I stayed where I was, she held her breath, turned her face from me, screwed up her face, put her head down and walked between us. Insane.

159430 ▶▶▶ Draper233, replying to Two-Six, 10, #990 of 2160 🔗

There was a young woman on the tube recently who refused to sit down in the carriage with her friend as I was sitting there without a mask. She would have been about 3 seats away!

Perhaps I should have started eating something to make her feel safe.

159458 ▶▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Draper233, 10, #991 of 2160 🔗

I get that every day on my train to London. This morning a pregnant woman decided to stand for 25 min than to sit on my bank of chairs. I was by the window so she would be more than 2 m away…But no, hey, if people are stupid and naïve they cannot be helped.

159463 ▶▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Thomas_E, 7, #992 of 2160 🔗

There are unfortunately no hope for these people. If they want to suffer they must do so.

159479 ▶▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Thomas_E, 11, #993 of 2160 🔗

I guess she was not mask less. I have now heard from 2 doctors who urge pregnant women FOR GOODNESS SAKE DO NOT WEAR A MASK!
You are damaging the healthy development of your child.

159485 ▶▶▶▶▶ Draper233, replying to Thomas_E, 3, #994 of 2160 🔗

I wonder how she’ll react when they tell her her new born needs to be injected with one of Gates’ dodgy vaccines.

159510 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Draper233, 6, #995 of 2160 🔗

She will be happy to get her newborn stuck with a non tested vaccine…The brainwashing is complete! And btw….yes she was wearing a mask . I see pregnant women wearing mask every single day!!

159533 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Draper233, replying to Thomas_E, 5, #996 of 2160 🔗

Well this is where i’ve seen some encouragement. A lot of the lockdown/mask-wearing supporters I know have said there is no way they will take the vaccine.

Ironic how they think there will be a free choice without penalties, unlike the measures they support.

159431 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Two-Six, 8, #997 of 2160 🔗

In April I also had a whole family ordered by their dad to turn and face the fence as they walked past me…

159451 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to A. Contrarian, 6, #998 of 2160 🔗

He’s subsequently lost their respect for life

159424 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #999 of 2160 🔗

A perfectly rational response given flawed inputs. Garbage in, garbage out 😉


I feel really sorry for him and others caught up in this.

159429 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tee Ell, 2, #1000 of 2160 🔗

Overall I feel sorry for him. Just frustrated that it’s come to this. He can’t even enjoy a walk around the block without being in fear for his life.

159443 ▶▶▶▶ Alan P, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #1001 of 2160 🔗

As I commented on here a few days ago, I just want to lash out verbally (and sometimes tempting to physically!), but have started to realise the real fear that has been sown by this government. If there is a day of reckoning then there should be many facing potential punishments of the sort seen post Nuremberg imho.

159446 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Alan P, 5, #1002 of 2160 🔗

Lash out positively “Hi! Sorry to scare you! I have no symptoms, and thankfully you are at less risk than this time last year. We could chat about it over a socially distanced cuppa if you would like that.”

159456 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1003 of 2160 🔗

When you put it like that. Christ. What a way to live.

159579 ▶▶▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to A. Contrarian, 8, #1004 of 2160 🔗

I don’t feel sorry for them, I envy them. Yes, you read that correctly. I am sure that my health wouldn’t being suffering so much if I simply believed in this big scary virus. I could avoid people at all costs and sit and wait for the saviour vaccine to come along. As it is, I am angry beyond belief and constantly feel unwell at the moment, I can’t just move out of someones way to appease my utter contempt for the government and the zealots.

159441 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #1005 of 2160 🔗

Shouldn’t be out really, should he, they make life a misery for normal people

159488 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Dan Clarke, 6, #1006 of 2160 🔗

I think that’s where the ‘Show them some consideration; make them comfortable’ line falls down.

I mean – if I kept encountering people and shouting ‘The end of the world is nigh!’ – would I be treated with tolerance?

159455 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to A. Contrarian, 10, #1007 of 2160 🔗

Promoting the growth of mental illness is now Government policy.

159462 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to A. Contrarian, 11, #1008 of 2160 🔗

I normally shout “I’ve not got anything catching” or “think I’m a leper do you? Do I need a bell?” or just “fucking idiot” depending on my mood.

159589 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1009 of 2160 🔗

I used to vary between ‘fucking idiot’ and ‘don’t worry,you won’t drop dead if I walk past you’,but now I’ve decided to stick with ‘fucking idiot’,it seems the most descriptive and I like the shocked look it gets in response.

159475 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1010 of 2160 🔗

So sad. I time myself when walking past some ….21……gone.

159554 ▶▶ HaylingDave, replying to A. Contrarian, 7, #1011 of 2160 🔗

Ah the psychotic “hedge divers” thread – I’ve missed these.

I walk the hound in the woods ( in the open bloody woods! ) daily and the number of people recently who seem to do exaggerated slo-mo twirls, spins and dives out of my way on a wide path beggars belief. I feel like I’m in a John Woo movie sometimes.

Back in April / May when this was happening, I’d usually smile, nod or say (or “mouth” – depending on far they’ve scampered down a steep hill) a “Thanks” to them … now I just openly scowl and shake my head in exasperation and sometimes disgust. We’re all dog-walking regulars who I’ll see again, but you know what, I just don’t give a toss anymore.

I will not support solidarity in cowardice. I’m not a fucking life coach here to boost your confidence when out in public.

And on that pleasant note, Cheers all 🙂


159698 ▶▶ watashi, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #1012 of 2160 🔗

sadly I come across cases like this every day. Maybe not quite as extreme. I had a couple the other day who pursed their lips (trying not to breathe in?) and turned their backs to me! so sad to see these fearful ones.

159391 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #1013 of 2160 🔗

A depressingly credible observation about Parliamentary scrutiny, plus a plea from John Ward.


159444 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1014 of 2160 🔗

It is depressing, especially as the coronavirus act has made the government immune from prosecution

159445 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1015 of 2160 🔗

An excellent summary piece.

159448 godowneasy, replying to godowneasy, 2, #1016 of 2160 🔗

Bill Gates: A three-part plan to eliminate Covid-19
If you haven’t seen this already it’s worth a read to see Bill Gates’ latest plans to vaccinate the world. It’s a short article but there’s a lot to chew on. The contorted logic is something to see.

The key thing is to “eliminate” COVID-19 and “also build the system that will help reduce the damage of the next pandemic.” In other words, a world of never ending pandemics and vaccinations.

This is on the Irish Times as a comment piece surprisingly. Same thing also here on a free to view site: https://asia.nikkei.com/Opinion/A-three-part-plan-to-eliminate-COVID-19

159489 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to godowneasy, 3, #1017 of 2160 🔗

The next pandemic???!!! Kill me now, I really don’t think I could cope with this lunacy again in my lifetime and I’m only 42!

159490 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to godowneasy, 1, #1018 of 2160 🔗

Interesting, I am now going to donate my vaccination to someone in myanmar. The whole thing sounds like a Pharma dream, lucky Bill, him being connected and everything

159532 ▶▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Dan Clarke, #1019 of 2160 🔗

Don’t forget that the pharma companies are working for next to nothing….

159512 ▶▶ RickH, replying to godowneasy, 6, #1020 of 2160 🔗

The virus did relatively little damage.

It was the response that shafted people across the world.

159530 ▶▶▶ godowneasy, replying to RickH, 1, #1021 of 2160 🔗

Yep – but the vaccine has always been presented as the only solution…

159449 PhilipF, replying to PhilipF, 8, #1022 of 2160 🔗

Richard Madeley is my hero.

(A sentence I never expected to write.)

159651 ▶▶ watashi, replying to PhilipF, #1023 of 2160 🔗

why? what’s he done?

160415 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to watashi, #1024 of 2160 🔗

He’s also a sceptic.

159457 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 10, #1025 of 2160 🔗

I emailed my GP on Monday after receiving the track and trace email, asking if they’d passed my details on. Just had a phone call to say they know nothing about it and will investigate. What a complete mess.

159460 ▶▶ leggy, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #1026 of 2160 🔗

My guess is they’re just sending it to every UK mobile number.

159649 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to leggy, #1027 of 2160 🔗

I didn’t get it (and haven’t shared my number with anyone other than close associates.)

159483 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to A. Contrarian, 6, #1028 of 2160 🔗

Only 1 out of 3 mobile numbers in this house received the text. Information is definitely from a database

159577 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1029 of 2160 🔗

That reminds me…I must ring my surgery to tell them I’ve ‘changed my number’ – I’m going to give them my alternative number that I will be using with my recently purchased Nokia 3310.

159580 ▶▶ mjr, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1030 of 2160 🔗

same with mine. they wanted to see the email to see what it said as they believe they had no input into this. However emails and numbers will be held on central database somewhere

159670 ▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1031 of 2160 🔗

Neither I nor my OH have had a text or an email from anyone about the app or the flu jab or any other NHS/PHE cr4p. Don’t know how we’ve slipped through the cracks, but we seem to be thankfully invisible.

159682 ▶▶ Polemon2, replying to A. Contrarian, #1032 of 2160 🔗

EMISHeath provide prescription services for my GP practice. My eMail is the login. They say nothing to with them – ask my doctor.

159467 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, #1033 of 2160 🔗

Ladies and gentlemen we have confirmation that immunity is a big deal courtesy of Tom Chivers and Adam Kucharski, although they may not admit this. The effect of immunity is compound and exponential, something I’ve said before. Remember that immunity affects the transmission rate. My emphasis below:

Has Covid become less dangerous?

And third, says Kucharski, “if you improve your treatment it scales linearly, whereas if you target transmission it scales exponentially.” Let me explain what that means. Imagine you have a disease where, on average, each infected person gives it to three people. (So the reproductive number, R, is three.) And of every 100 people who get the disease, one person dies. (So the IFR is 1%).

Now imagine you have one person with the disease; they give it to three people; they give it to another three each, and so on. By the 10th generation, almost 90,000 people will have been infected*, and about 900 will have died.

Now imagine you develop some clever treatment that can reduce the IFR by 33%, from 1% to 0.67%. You will reduce the number of dead from around 900 to around 600. That’s a very big deal.

But now imagine that you find some clever behavioural intervention — masks, hand-washing, whatever — that reduces your R by 33%, from three to two. Now, instead of giving it to 90,000 people, you’ll give it to about 2,000 people**, and about 20 of them will die.

Small reductions in the IFR lead to small reductions in deaths, and that’s good. But small reductions in R rapidly lead to very big reductions in deaths, and that’s even better . If 0.5% of a million people die instead of 1%, that’s a huge improvement, but it’s still a lot of people. Better, if reasonably possible, that they don’t get infected in the first place.

159486 ▶▶ Eamon, replying to Nobody2020, #1034 of 2160 🔗

It may also slow the rate at which the R rate reduces with herd immunity meaning you eventually end up with the same deaths just over a longer period. Additional measures will also fade in time.

159492 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Eamon, #1035 of 2160 🔗

How I look at it is that the more immunity you have the less NPI you require. With zero immunity you require 100% NPI. With full immunity (the theoretical herd immunity threshold based on R0) you require zero NPI. Then you have a sliding scale in between these two extremes.

159631 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Eamon, 2, #1036 of 2160 🔗

The R-rate is a giant load of bollocks.

It’s a completely theoretical concept – the rate of infection – used primarily for modelling purposes.

Going out and measuring it in the real world is impossible, as has been proven by the PCR test fiasco. Despite what the government would like to think, they have no fucking clue who is infected, when or how badly. No clue.

That the primary metric for determining healthcare in our country is a theoretical mathematical concept and not any real medical one explains the grotesqueness of it all.

160221 ▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to stewart, #1037 of 2160 🔗


160219 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Nobody2020, #1038 of 2160 🔗

This is the approved narrative, I’m afraid..

And the approved narrative will never acknowledge that the virus has lost any of its virulence.

It most certainly has, imo.

And in my opinion a lot of the ‘long haul’ patients are experiencing the adverse toxicities associated with Remdesivir, Dexamethazone, and of course mechanical ventilation (though less than half ever recover from venting).
All the evidence is out there.

159470 Leemc23, replying to Leemc23, 14, #1039 of 2160 🔗

Now about to go on the school run where again I will be the only one in the (outdoor) playground not wearing a mask…

How can it have got to this point that even collecting a child from Primary school involves masks and virtue signalling on a mass scale

159497 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Leemc23, 6, #1040 of 2160 🔗

I really feel for you. I’m just thankful my child’s school is nothing like this. A lot had to do with the tone set by the head.

159509 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to mattghg, 4, #1041 of 2160 🔗

Yes – there are schools that still have professionals instead of scared sheeple in charge – as in our grandchildren’s case.

159540 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to mattghg, 2, #1042 of 2160 🔗

no masks at our primary. they staggered the class opening times by 15 minutes to keep them separate. so everyone turns up with all their kids at the earliest time and all the kids go mental together for 15 minutes. a bit of an unintended consequence but no-one cares

159550 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Leemc23, 2, #1043 of 2160 🔗

It’s mental.

159473 Locked down and out, replying to Locked down and out, 9, #1044 of 2160 🔗

More fire-hose spending and wastage from our imprudent government:
“The government spent £569 million on ventilators for which ‘the anticipated urgent demand did not materialise’, the National Audit Office says .”
This is truly mind-boggling.

159478 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Locked down and out, 6, #1045 of 2160 🔗

Chump-change. They are spending around that much every month just to keep public transport running as nobody’s using it. Good thing for them the BoE has a high-volume electronic printing press. We’ll all be paying for this for a very long time.

159494 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Locked down and out, 2, #1046 of 2160 🔗

Again LDAO, as they say:”You couldn’t make it up” and they didn’t have the part I wanted.

159498 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1047 of 2160 🔗

Sorry, that was meant for GWKC, but you “get the message”

159505 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Locked down and out, 1, #1048 of 2160 🔗

… but what is truly, truly, truly mind boggling is the accumulated bad decisions taken at every turn of this pseudo-crisis … and the gullibility of a public still accepting the shit that they shovel.

In a way I can partly accept the ventilator cock-up, given the time when it was made – when things did appear initially dire …. but the rest???

159477 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 13, #1049 of 2160 🔗

Just been to a joinery factory shop with a one way system; the way out through the loading bay with a bloke driving a forklift truck wearing ear muffs with his back to me; obviously much more safer than going back though the entrance and meeting someone coming in.
Absolutely no blame attached to the firm whatsoever.

159481 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Fingerache Philip., 9, #1050 of 2160 🔗

Now I’m hoping that a masked zombie gets twatted by a forklift. It’s probably the only way to make them see this kind of crap for what it is.

159506 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 2, #1051 of 2160 🔗

As they say; ” you couldn’t make it up” and they didn’t have the part I wanted.

159597 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1052 of 2160 🔗

I know someone who had an extremely nasty, life-changing accident when on foot with a fork lift backing into her at speed. There was no delineation made between fork lift truck space and pedestrian space, and staff had to pass through the area on foot. Settlement was made out of court.

159482 Janice21, replying to Janice21, 1, #1053 of 2160 🔗


Just wondered what peoples thoughts were……..I used to get the flu vaccine as I have asthma but havent had it for several years now as my surgery said as my asthma was mild enough now so I didnt need it. However, today, I received a letter asking me to go and get it this year as they dont want people with respiratory problems to get flu and coronavirus together. There is an opt out section to sign and date and return if you dont wish to take it. I have been well throughout the winters that I didnt take it, apart from the recent one where I had some kind of flu type virus in Jan this year.
What would you do?

159656 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Janice21, 3, #1054 of 2160 🔗

Don’t get the jab.

159660 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Janice21, 1, #1055 of 2160 🔗

Is there somewhere where you can find impartial advice?

Not easy given our present circumstances.

Why not wait awhile and keep a check on yourself, as you’ll know from past experience what to look out for.

159751 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Janice21, 1, #1056 of 2160 🔗

In your position I would read the studies showing that flu vaccines *increase* susceptibility to other coronaviruses before making your decision. I would also read mercola.com and consider taking the supplements recommended to boost your immune system. You do not need to buy supplements from there, but he gives good advice on what might be helpful and why..

159487 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 14, #1057 of 2160 🔗

Belgian health experts demand full investigation into WHO for faking COVID-19 pandemic

A coalition of doctors and other health professionals in Belgium has issued an open letter calling for an immediate end to every “emergency” policy established in response to the Wuhan coronavirus (covid-19), as well as a full-scale investigation into the World Health Organization (WHO) for allegedly faking a pandemic.

Citing a complete lack of “medical justification” for the continued lockdowns and mandatory mask-wearing, the coalition says an open debate is needed to allow all experts with varying perspectives the chance to be represented and have their voices heard, without censorship or retribution.



159503 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to Victoria, 2, #1058 of 2160 🔗

Is it just me or does this week feel like its ramping up when it comes to all this Corona cr*p being challenged? I am actually feeling positive!

159539 ▶▶▶ peter, replying to Janice21, 5, #1059 of 2160 🔗

Florida sets the biggest fuck you to the covid hoax so far.

160090 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to peter, #1060 of 2160 🔗

If I decide to flee the country, Florida is my first choice right now.

159495 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #1061 of 2160 🔗

The actions of the guilty?


“A LONG-AWAITED report used by Nicola Sturgeon to avoid saying when she personally knew Covid-infected patients were moved into Scotland’s care homes has been delayed.

“Public Health Scotland had been due to report on the scale of the problem on Wednesday.

“However the analysis has been postponed for at least a month due to “data quality issues”.”
“…Sturgeon repeatedly used the prospect of publication to sidestep questions about what she knew about a practice condemned her critics called “almost beyond belief”.”

It seems Sturgeon/snp would prefer the report into transfer of Covid patients into care homes was delayed until after the elections next year.

159514 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Basics, 1, #1062 of 2160 🔗

Sounds about right. There was an article on the BBC earlier too about their non compliance with the Alex Salmond inquiry.

159521 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Basics, 1, #1063 of 2160 🔗

Just like Simon Dolan’s case, 1 month…..

159496 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 2, #1064 of 2160 🔗

when is the valance, whitty and johnson show?

159516 ▶▶ RickH, replying to steve_w, 1, #1065 of 2160 🔗

You mean you’re actually interested??? 🙂

159527 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to RickH, 3, #1066 of 2160 🔗

the last whitty and valance one was comedy gold. the graph and prediction/non-prediction will be famous for years to come. It was a moment of history!

I emailed my MP explaining how my 10 year old daughter had debunked it. They ‘gave me their word’ they were fighting against this nonsense

159605 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to steve_w, 1, #1067 of 2160 🔗

Who is your MP and has he actually contributed anything to the debate in Parliament?

159644 ▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Carrie, #1068 of 2160 🔗

Greg Smith. His replies to my emails have become more sceptic over time. He seems fully sensible now. He is new though. I don’t follow any debates. I expect he means ‘behind the scenes’ talking to colleagues etc.

159549 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to RickH, 1, #1069 of 2160 🔗

I only want to know if they are proposing any more lockdowns?

159545 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to steve_w, 1, #1070 of 2160 🔗

It depends on the progress with parliamentary business but they estimate around 5-6 pm .

159547 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to steve_w, 3, #1071 of 2160 🔗

You mean The Muppet Show! No disrespect to the muppets!

159499 Silke David, 8, #1072 of 2160 🔗

Just listened to a follow up interview with Reiner Fuellmilch, the lawyer who is helping to prepare a class action to be brought in the US or Canada on behalf of US or Canadian business damaged by the “pandemic”
They claim that the PCR test is to blame for causing the pandemic. Without being able to utilise this test to identify “cases”, not as many people would test “+” and give govts the reasons for restrictions.
A commenter on the first interview said, blaming it on the PCR test is wrong, as Chinese doctors established the illness with a second examination (chest x/ray) after a +patient.
I shouted at YT, you silly girl, you answered your own criticism.
Every infection should be confirmed by another established diagnostic test, and not only a swab taken from the throat and nose.

159502 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 5, #1073 of 2160 🔗

Does anyone have a copy of the stupid guidance for driving lessons? Do you have to wear a mask by law or is it just guidance and the instructor’s prerogative? I can’t find the guidance. Very angry about this stupid situation.

159507 ▶▶ tallandbald, replying to Moomin, 8, #1074 of 2160 🔗

My daughter has claimed an exemption and does not wear a mask.

159538 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to tallandbald, 1, #1075 of 2160 🔗

It’s tricky, the instructor is an old friend! The lessons aren’t for me either. I’d just like to know the guidance, I know that for hairdressers and opticians the client doesn’t have to wear one but most of them say that you have to. It does my head in!

159531 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Moomin, 10, #1076 of 2160 🔗

Driving lessons are probably the most risky thing people can do. I think the government has recognised this and has taken firm action to stop the spread of Coronavirus in driving instructional settings.

After 23:59 tonight, a full powered ventilator system comprising of a fully sealed and mechanically ventilated visor and hood must be worm at all times. One-Way exhaust valves must be installed in any vehicle deemed to be a driving instructional vehicle for the use of instruction in how to do driving and that.

Gloves must be worn at all times, these must be blue and made of rubber.

It is not permissible to wear ordinary driving gloves, especial ones with an open back or that are made of suede.

These provide an unacceptable level of exposed skin that can “ooze” the virus out into the air. This is now established by our panel of experts to be the case. Emerging science clearly demonstrates that inside the enclosed environment of a vehicle the virus can quickly reach lethal levels.

If the lesson isn’t going to well, increased perspiration from the learner and/or the trainer can enhance this effect. As Well.

Penalties for not complying with these measures will result in a £10000 fine which can be issued by anybody with a tabbard or uniform. The penalties will double on each subsequent offence.

Protect others! Stay Safe! Be Kind!

159541 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Two-Six, 5, #1077 of 2160 🔗

The sad irony is that you’re actually more likely to die in a car crash than of Covid being spread from/to instructor and learner! I HATE THIS SITUATION!!!

159544 ▶▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to Two-Six, 2, #1078 of 2160 🔗

Ha ha, great stuff. Sometimes the only thing to do to stop insanity happening is to basically take the piss at the stupidity of it all. This brought back memories of my lovely Dad wearing his driving gloves back in the day.

159576 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Two-Six, 4, #1079 of 2160 🔗

that is far too dangerous. In future the driving instructor must sit in another car and follow the learner keeping at least 2 metres between the vehicles. A loud hailer is permitted to be used to pass on instructions although windows must remain closed at all times

160234 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Two-Six, #1080 of 2160 🔗


Are the over-70’s still allowed to wear a hat??

159508 GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 22, #1081 of 2160 🔗

I’m pleased to report normal behaviour from the Hermes driver who delivered a parcel just now. No mask, no gloves and he actually handed me the parcel rather than just chucking it on the doorstep and playing some bizarre game of chap door runaway.
I also despair of the world when normal behaviour is now cause for comment! 🤔

159537 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 9, #1082 of 2160 🔗

Take a photo of him next time and report him. It’s idiots like this that will mean the whole country has to be locked down again. He is obviously anti-government and very unpatriotic.
Ahem 😉

159581 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 5, #1083 of 2160 🔗

My local courier has done this from the start; he’s a well known popular figure here and perfectly well!

159638 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 4, #1084 of 2160 🔗

Same from my postie this morning!

159515 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1085 of 2160 🔗

Debate on the Coronavirus Act just starting

159518 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #1086 of 2160 🔗

Hope Sir Desmond is in attendance …

159520 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to kh1485, 4, #1087 of 2160 🔗

Me too

159526 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1088 of 2160 🔗

Still angling to keep restrictions in place until a vaccine is available

159529 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1089 of 2160 🔗

Mental health sections of the CV Act not to be renewed

Section 21 to be reviewed

159536 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1090 of 2160 🔗

Confirms most restrictions are put in place under the Public Health Act and not the Coronavirus Act

159543 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1091 of 2160 🔗

Hilary Benn questioning police powers under Section 21

New guidance issued to police officers by the CPS (don’t know what that guidance is…)

159551 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, #1092 of 2160 🔗

Claims the CV Act protects all public workers and public services…

159555 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #1093 of 2160 🔗

Two doctors are again needed to detain somebody under the Mental Health Act. Was reduced to one under the CV Act, and not to be renewed

159558 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1094 of 2160 🔗

Restrictions on public gatherings and the right to reduce numbers and disperse remains in place

159561 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1095 of 2160 🔗

Still talking about the virus as if it is the Black Death

159574 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1096 of 2160 🔗

Claims CV Act underpins legality of financial support, such as the furlough

159578 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1097 of 2160 🔗

Andrew Mitchell expressing concerns over the entertainments industries, Hancock making placating sounds

159611 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, #1098 of 2160 🔗

Shadow Health Secretary – Labour will not be blocking the extension

However, things cannot go on as they are. Overnight notice, no proper power of review. Public are being let down.

Losing control of testing is losing control of the virus
Delays in testing of carehome residents and university students a cause for concern

159617 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nick Rose, #1099 of 2160 🔗

If they extend it, will there be another vote in 6 months, or will it be in place for another 18 months?

159623 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Carrie, #1100 of 2160 🔗

I *think* 6 months, they’ve been talking about “next March”

159619 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, #1101 of 2160 🔗

Shadow Health Secretary – all Sch/Sect 21 confusing who actually IS an infectious person, all prosecutions have been shown unlawful

159627 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, #1102 of 2160 🔗

Shadow Health Secretary – 90 minutes not long enough for a proper debate

159632 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1103 of 2160 🔗

Mixed messaging helps nobody
Take action to prevent mass unemployment now
British people deserve so much better

Shadow Health

159640 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, #1104 of 2160 🔗

Graham Brady going on about the compromise

159641 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, #1105 of 2160 🔗

SNP’s Blackford has started, (if I go quiet please shout…)

159658 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, #1106 of 2160 🔗

Blackford – still a long way to go
People have adapted to the abnormal
Virus still as deadly as ever (!)
6 monthly reviews cannot just be a rubber stamping exercise
Calling for greater scrutiny of the government
Raising concerns over unemployment, getting in his demand for furlough to continue and complaining about an “extreme” Brexit
This government are repeating the mistakes of the 1980s
Demanding more powers for Scotland

159659 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, #1107 of 2160 🔗

Finally sat down

159663 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, #1108 of 2160 🔗

Jeremy Hunt – concerns about those dying from causes other than cv
Wants more testing in hospitals to reduce infections of patients

159673 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, #1109 of 2160 🔗

Bernard Jenkin making a dig at Dom Cummings (I think)

159680 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1110 of 2160 🔗

DUP Public frustration at a lot of measures that have been imposed (Sammy Wilson). Parliament must have effective scrutiny. DUP unconvinced that the House will get that scrutiny.

Local lockdowns not subject to parliamentary scrutiny.

159686 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, #1111 of 2160 🔗

Andrea Leadsom raising concerns surrounding events management and weddings

159691 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1112 of 2160 🔗

Ed Davey – LibDems must oppose the renewal of the CV Act. Concerns over disabled people and their rights

159697 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1113 of 2160 🔗

Charles Walker – 90 minutes to debate something that has altered the relationship between the state and the citizen is not enough. An utter disgrace. I’m not sorry I’m angry.

159701 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1114 of 2160 🔗

Rebecca Long Bailey – the changes are cosmetic and don’t go far enough. Authoritarian powers are wrong. Government demands citizens give up their liberties and livelihoods. Government’s response is chaos.

159711 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1115 of 2160 🔗

Hancock – controlling the virus helps us deliver better cancer care. (Not living in the same universe as me – N)

Debate over, I think they’re voting now as the House has emptied

159712 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, #1116 of 2160 🔗

Result expected c 17-10

159742 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nick Rose, #1117 of 2160 🔗

Good on him for saying so!

159603 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1118 of 2160 🔗

Crumbs… no substantial changes then..

159600 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #1119 of 2160 🔗

Ironically he seems to be doing more challenging than any Tories.. Think the Tories are totally deluded if they think they are going to get away with this..
They will never be in government again..

159599 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1120 of 2160 🔗

What section is that?

159610 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Carrie, #1121 of 2160 🔗

Section 21? To do with infectious persons, police reactions to them, the vulnerable, such as children, elderly and the mental provisions

159598 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1122 of 2160 🔗

Well what a surprise…. NOT

159517 Will, 11, #1123 of 2160 🔗

The ludicrous Mark Brolin now writes in the Telegraph that the Scandinavian experience tells us we should be easing restrictions. He still says Sweden got it wrong and should have locked down for a short period but fails to acknowledge that Sweden’s bravery enabled the other Scandinavian countries to open up so promptly because Sweden clearly demonstrated that Ferguson had got it wrong, yet again.

159519 Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #1124 of 2160 🔗

ARMY Knocking at the Door: “Do You Wanna Test?” | Carl Vernon


159522 NickR, 7, #1125 of 2160 🔗

I’ve seen a few comments on here suggesting that there’s something odd going on with reported positive tests as the ‘reported’ date & the ‘specimen’ date data vary. I’ve plotted one against the other.
Recent data always gets significantly modified retrospectively so ignore the last few days but if you go back to 23rd Sept, 6 days prior to yesterday’s data, the reported cumulative variance was 8,492 since the 1st August. That’s about 2 days worth of positives.
I suspect this means that there are lots of problems in the testing organisation with late reporting but it doesn’t change the direction of travel. But it does have the effect of slightly inflating recent rate of growth trend lines.
I was advocating Coronavirus parties in the spring and summer, like chicken pox parties in my childhood, people thought I was mad! Not so mad anymore!

159523 steve_w, 10, #1126 of 2160 🔗

Current covid deaths worldwide 5k per day
If this carries on for another 6 months we could have a total covid death count of 2 million

Less than Asian flu
Less than Hong Kong flu

A little more than each of 1) diarrhea 2) traffic accidents iii) TB

less than cold/flu

159535 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Poppy, 4, #1128 of 2160 🔗

Not before time – and replaced with Carl Heneghan et al!!! I can only dream!

159570 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Poppy, 9, #1129 of 2160 🔗

O please let it be true. Dr John Lee to take up a place I hope, along with Profs Gupta, Heneghan and Sikora.

159587 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Poppy, 2, #1130 of 2160 🔗

Thank fucking Christ!!!!!

159596 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Poppy, 1, #1131 of 2160 🔗

It will be like last time when he was supposed to have been sacked – give it a month or two and he will be back again..

159645 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Carrie, #1132 of 2160 🔗

Like I’ve said before, they’re like football managers, just get another cushy job somewhere else.

159608 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Poppy, 3, #1133 of 2160 🔗

I’m not going to defend Ferguson/Imperial but if it wasn’t them it would have been somebody else. The problem is not with the modellers but in the epidemiological modelling and by how much they are allowed to affect the decision making.

159620 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #1134 of 2160 🔗

It certainly needs addressing. The modeller avoids accountability because they don’t set the policy and the government avoids accountability because they are just following “the science”. Result, perpetuated misery.

159621 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1135 of 2160 🔗

Good point. In the end, politicians have to fess up. If those of us here can work out the thrust of the basic evidence, then so can your MP.

If they can’t, they can simply piss off and do something within their capabilities.

159614 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Poppy, 2, #1136 of 2160 🔗

He’ll be back for the next virus don’t worry. Funnily enough I don’t need a model to predict what kind of forecast he’ll come up with…

159674 ▶▶ Will, replying to Poppy, #1137 of 2160 🔗

Maybe Boris is finally going to start chucking people under the bus…. I predict mass bankruptcy in the further education sector. Unlikely I know but it would be great if Imperial went bang after Ferguson has done so much to destroy the institution’s reputation.

159738 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Will, 1, #1138 of 2160 🔗

Nah… once they have voted it through they will just carry on as before, doing as Bill G and co. tell them to..

159525 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 8, #1139 of 2160 🔗

If you have a screen between you and a customer, do you need to wear a mask?

The Government made it compulsory for retail staff to wear a face covering from today (Thursday, September 24).

However, if you have already installed physical screens at points of sale, is it still necessary to wear a face mask?
According to the Department of Business of Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS) for clarification and the short answer is ‘no’.

The statement confirmed this: “Face coverings must be worn by retail, leisure and hospitality staff working in indoor areas which are open to the public and where they are likely to come into contact with a member of the public, for example shops, supermarkets and restaurants.

“If these businesses have taken steps in line with HSE guidance for Covid-19-Secure workplaces to create a physical barrier between workers and members of the public then staff behind the barrier will not be required to wear a face covering.”

The BEIS has provided the following definitions of terms:
Visors – The BEIS has confirmed that visors are NOT regarded as face coverings for staff (or customers by extension)
Perspex shields – the guidance confirms these are an acceptable alternative to staff wearing face masks – provided they meet the requirements for a Covid-secure workplace
Other exemptions to the rule is if retail staff are not in a customer-facing environment (such as a stock room); if they have a hidden disability or another health condition; or if they are with someone who relies on lip reading to communicate with them.

159548 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Victoria, 2, #1140 of 2160 🔗

good one.

159633 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Victoria, #1141 of 2160 🔗

I think it is advised if you are less than 1 metre away, even with a screen between you, they recommend as face covering. Although you need to be within a short distance for a minimum 15 minutes, and chatting or some heavy breathing, facing each other.
so, no sex please.

159730 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Silke David, #1142 of 2160 🔗

Me and the misses were going at it in the middle of our cornflakes this morning, well, that is until the store manager came over…

159534 RickH, replying to RickH, 3, #1143 of 2160 🔗

Looks like Handoncock is getting a pretty easy ride in the debate.

159542 ▶▶ RickH, replying to RickH, 7, #1144 of 2160 🔗

… no direct challenge to the mythology of a ‘dangerous virus’.

Baker and Brady show the signs of having been bought off by a weak compromise in order to keep the peace.

159575 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to RickH, 1, #1145 of 2160 🔗

Hilary Benn makes one challenging intervention about the detention of ‘infectious people’ – not answered

A shill on the other side (Longhi) tut-tuts about students behaving in a dangerously normal way, feeding Handoncock a line for posturing about ‘responsibility.

… wet rag interventions continue; none challenging the fundamentals, only the peripheral consequences.

159584 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to RickH, 3, #1146 of 2160 🔗

“A time when the nation has been tested more than ever than in peacetime”

Opposition deciding that the role is too much of a challenge except in piddling around the periphery.

Total lack of essential analysis that inevitably leads to the conclusion that this is about a mirage, not a threat.

Beam me up, Scottie.

159954 ▶▶▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to RickH, #1147 of 2160 🔗

That’s actually true – just not in the way intended.

159594 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to RickH, 4, #1148 of 2160 🔗

Traitors – if they vote for the act to continue then as far as I’m concerned they have lost my vote forever and I will never trust Steve Baker on anything else in the future whatsoever…

159616 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Carrie, 1, #1149 of 2160 🔗

It was forseeable, Carrie.

I see little hope in this present parliament – a nice little number with bars still open after 10pm – but not a lot of numeracy or political literacy.

I’ll suspend judgement until after the vote. But I shall be checking the names on my (nominal) side of the benches, and judging accordingly. Especially that of my MP.

159630 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to RickH, 3, #1150 of 2160 🔗

Those who vote to extend should be BOMBARDED with disapproving emails and letters saying we will NEVER vote for them again…

159626 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to RickH, 1, #1151 of 2160 🔗

Simon Dolan: https://twitter.com/simondolan/status/1311320187795394561

Hancock just said

“Where possible, the Govt is to allow MPs a vote on any coronavirus regulations that would apply to the whole of England or the UK”

Are any MP’s really going to accept this hollow and empty line??

159706 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Carrie, #1152 of 2160 🔗

Most will – even though it does nothing : ‘Where possible” = “If we feel like it and it doesn’t matter”

159723 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Carrie, 2, #1153 of 2160 🔗

So if they mandate wholesale gassing of the public, county by county, that won’t need scrutiny, will it?

159732 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #1154 of 2160 🔗

Exactly – maybe we should write letters to MPs and point this out..

159556 Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, 5, #1155 of 2160 🔗

Just received the following message from the head where I teach (my emphasis). Probably a false positive.

“… a confirmed case of COVID-19 has been identified today in a pupil in year xx. The pupil is asymptomatic … was tested as part of the national screening programme . … as a result 30+ year xx pupils and a member of staff are self-isolating.”

159559 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Ozzie, 8, #1156 of 2160 🔗

Message : Avoid testing at all costs.

159565 ▶▶▶ Ozzie, replying to RickH, 5, #1157 of 2160 🔗

Absolutely – school should be advising parents not to take up the NHS / Imperial College study.

159567 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to RickH, 6, #1158 of 2160 🔗

I think we should go around telling people you’ll never get a mortgage and never get a loan if you test +ve. Long covid and all that

159593 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to steve_w, #1159 of 2160 🔗

Good idea..

159618 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to steve_w, 2, #1160 of 2160 🔗

Plus NHS T&T will have your records for 8 years. Who knows who they share it with, although they say they won’t.

159622 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Silke David, 2, #1161 of 2160 🔗

Exactly, though I think most people enthusiastically scanning the QR thing, don’t realise this.

159762 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Silke David, 2, #1162 of 2160 🔗

The GDPR (which i suspect are quietly forgotten) provides the following rights for individuals:

  1. The right to be informed
  2. The right of access
  3. The right to rectification
  4. The right to erasure (to be forgotten)
  5. The right to restrict processing
  6. The right to data portability
  7. The right to object
  8. Rights in relation to automated decision making and profiling.

The ICO (information commissioner’s office) is the UK GDPR body – website:
The ICO site is reasonably readable, in comparison to the EU documentation.

It is quite possible that the T&T could be bending some of these rights and for sure if you wish for your data to be deleted then you can request it

159564 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Ozzie, 7, #1163 of 2160 🔗

the programme should be rebranded to “national life wrecking programme”

159590 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ozzie, 5, #1164 of 2160 🔗

So pupil’s parents took the government’s ‘cash for tests’ bribe then, and as a result the other pupils have to suffer…

159612 ▶▶ bucky99, replying to Ozzie, 2, #1165 of 2160 🔗

And many of those 30+ kids won’t be getting any useful education for the next couple of weeks…

159615 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Ozzie, 2, #1166 of 2160 🔗

I hope the student is getting a 2nd test. As the cruiseship, the NFL team and plenty others showed, a 2nd test is often negative.

159650 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Ozzie, 1, #1167 of 2160 🔗

As per the point I raised earlier, if this is actually a +ve case and is asymptomatic is that how immunity works? If you have picked up the virus but your bodies immune system has zapped it, nonetheless do you still test +ve with a PCR test?

159681 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #1168 of 2160 🔗

It could either be that the student was ill months earlier and still has DNA present. He would probably remember being ill, even with a little cough. NOT an runny nose!
Most likely that his t-cells have destroyed the virus and it is the rubbish that his body still needs to get rid off.
It could be a Rheno virus (common cold) or any other corona virus.
If the student is asymptomatic it is 99.99% sure NOT to pass any virus on.

159665 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Ozzie, 1, #1169 of 2160 🔗

How can it be a confirmed case if the pupil is asymptomatic?

159715 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Ozzie, 3, #1170 of 2160 🔗

The stupid child and his parents must have acted on the NHS/Imperial College London/Ipsos Mori so-called research testing program – well done you are not sick (as you have no symptoms) but you are instrumental in at least 30 pupils being sent home. Big shame on you.

159562 DRW, replying to DRW, 28, #1171 of 2160 🔗

The sad thing for me personally is that if they imposed another full lockdown (unlikely in my view) it would make absolutely no difference. The covid safety theatre bullshit has made me a near-recluse anyway.

159566 ▶▶ stewart, replying to DRW, 13, #1172 of 2160 🔗

Ditto. Who wants to venture out into that gloom and inhumanity?

159572 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to stewart, 8, #1173 of 2160 🔗

Same – that’s their plan though isn’t it? Voluntary lockdown?

159601 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to leggy, 9, #1174 of 2160 🔗

I suppose. Their plan is clearly to keep up the “covid is going to kill us all unless you do as we say” charade until they can roll out a vaccine, make everyone take it, claim victory and dodge the giant bullet of having to admit they completely overreacted.

At whatever cost. Even if Sunak has to print another half trillion pounds. Whatever it takes, just make it to the vaccine.

159613 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to stewart, 2, #1175 of 2160 🔗

Bill G will be cheering them along – grrrr…

159654 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to stewart, #1176 of 2160 🔗

What vaccine though? Phase 3 trials have not gone well.

159693 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Alan P, replying to DRW, #1177 of 2160 🔗

And what if this miracle cure causes massive side effects? Think of the infected blood catastrophe in the 80’s and thalidomide in the 60’s. Potentially thousands of compensation cases vs government/nhs?

159583 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to stewart, 4, #1178 of 2160 🔗

And if the theatre actually worked, then why did shops etc. ever have to close?

159563 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 2, #1179 of 2160 🔗


The Critic’s views on the impending break out of hitherto supine MPs, led by Steve Baker.

Is there any scope for hope?

159585 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to wendyk, 6, #1180 of 2160 🔗

On Guido it says that Hancock says Parliament will get consulted ‘wherever possible’ on future amendments – not good enough…

159602 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Carrie, 3, #1181 of 2160 🔗

More predictable double speak

159609 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to wendyk, 1, #1182 of 2160 🔗

Exactly. Have any of the MPs who have replied to letters from us actually spoken in the debate?

159647 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Carrie, #1183 of 2160 🔗

I’m hoping that Sir Desmond will rise to the occasion, mindful of the many emails he’s recently received from the likes of us.

159729 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to wendyk, #1184 of 2160 🔗

Did he do so?

159637 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to wendyk, 1, #1185 of 2160 🔗

They way they tip toe around each other is so annoying !!!!

159568 Templeton, 1, #1186 of 2160 🔗

He wont say its law.

159571 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 21, #1187 of 2160 🔗

Track and trace.

Like a lot of people I have received a text asking me to download the ‘app’.

Here is my reply to GOV.uk

Thank you for sending me the link to download the NHS track and trace app. I do have a particular difficulty with this however. I am the proud owner of a Motorola ‘clam’ type phone which is around twenty years old. Could you give me instructions as to how I can carry out your wishes on this most trusty device? Failing this, and my phone is not up to the job could you please supply me with one of those new fangled jobbies that can do what you say. I am a most responsible person but I have a limited knowledge of the latest technonogy. I keep hearing things like 4G and 5G but I’m not sure if my Motorola can handle any kind of G truth be told.

I have to admit to a certain confusion over your ‘track and trace’ methods. According to yourselves:

“The new NHS COVID-19 app is the Official NHS contact tracing app for England and Wales.”

Which is all well and good but I have the following question. At present there are around 9 million adults in the UK who are classed as ‘functionally illiterate’. Presumably they don’t have a mobile phone smart or otherwise. Added to these not unsubstantial numbers there must be many millions of people who are quite happy with muddling around with the technology they have, even if it is stuck around trying to ascertain how to programme their VHS video recorder. So, allowing for the many millions of people who cannot download your COVID-19 app can you explain on what basis it is being adopted as the official contact tracing app for England and Wales?

I look forward to your reply and the possibility of becoming the owner of a smart and gleaming new piece of kit so that I can partake of inclusion in track and trace. And before I forget, My 87 year old next door neighbour has told me that if any new phones are being handed out can he be included?

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Yours, Harry Hopkins.

159588 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Harry hopkins, 5, #1188 of 2160 🔗

I reckon a simple “Shove your track and trace up your XXX, I decide on my own health, not you, thank you very much.” would have sufficed.

Not sure pointing out the loopholes in their malicious scheme is a good idea (not that they don’t know about them already) but it gives the impression that your objection is that they need to improve the system.

159607 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to stewart, 2, #1189 of 2160 🔗

Yes, best not to give them any ideas for wasting yet more taxpayers’ money..

159642 ▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to stewart, 4, #1190 of 2160 🔗

Hopefully, my E-mail gives them the impression that there are very, very many of us who just think that they’re a collective pile of steaming and odious shi*e. (if you pardon my language!)

159652 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #1191 of 2160 🔗

Spot on!

159591 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #1192 of 2160 🔗

Nice one Harry!

I had an email to my desktop the other day. Maybe I should download the app to my desktop – as it’s never out of the house it should mean I never get notified…

Suffice it to say the email got deleted straight away!


159604 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #1193 of 2160 🔗


159582 nocheesegromit, replying to nocheesegromit, 19, #1194 of 2160 🔗

Would just like to say excellent work Gilbert if he’s reading this – definitely sums up all of my frustrations as a student and it’s a brilliant letter. I was thinking of setting up a campaign group tentatively titled ‘Students against lockdown’ funnily enough so I am glad to see not all students are buying into this.

159606 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to nocheesegromit, 5, #1195 of 2160 🔗


159629 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to nocheesegromit, 12, #1196 of 2160 🔗

Thank you very much! My main frustration is that all my friends who have gone to uni simply go along with everything because they think it will make it go away quicker. That’s why I couldn’t go this year, no way I could on the one hand be partying illegally, yet having to distance and deal with all the masks and procedures by day.

159646 ▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Youth_Unheard, 9, #1197 of 2160 🔗

Ah, at least you have a chance at a normal start to university then when you do decide to go. I’m just starting third year so there isn’t really a way for me to avoid this other than rebelling in any way I can (mask exemption, refusal to join in with T&T, etc.) which is why I’m thinking of putting up flyers and posters on campus.

159653 ▶▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to nocheesegromit, 5, #1198 of 2160 🔗

I did initially want to lead the rebellion from within, but when I found out about the uni expanding testing and harsher rules, I would probably have just been miserable and left within a few weeks anyway.

159661 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Youth_Unheard, 3, #1199 of 2160 🔗

Also in my third year, I’m just doing absolute minimal engagement.

159703 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Youth_Unheard, 5, #1200 of 2160 🔗

Leave if you are not happy, hanging in there will not really help – trust an old man who has been through it.

Never works trying to stay and enable change from within.

Many years ago started A-levels at college – applied maths, pure maths, physics and electronic engineering.

Bored stupid and frustrated.

Try an apprenticeship and/or Open University or other online university worldwide instead.

Lasted 3 weeks at college continually miserable, quit, never looked back, lot happier at work and made a bigger success of myself and had a job I really enjoyed and made a successful career of.

Found out about a few others I went to school with – ended up happier, more fulfilled and so on so never regretted it but got told by a couple of people “I wish I had done to your way”.

159685 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Youth_Unheard, 2, #1201 of 2160 🔗

Good for you, keep hammering way at the others at university.

Few points you can bring up and ask them what it means including the VC of your university:

From a FOI answer from the DHSC:

1 – Q: supply the justification that a “positive” test means the person is suffering from the virus as is a danger to the public and must be isolated.

A: SARS-CoV-2 RNA means the RNA is present in that sample at that point in time.
It does not mean that the patient has the novel coronavirus (COVID-19).

Patients can have SARS-CoV-2 RNA before onset of illness, during the illness and after resolution of symptoms (all variable periods). The result has to be taken into context of symptoms present.

2 – Select Committee for Health and Social Care, 21st July 2020:

CMO Dr Chris Whitty stated “If you look at the R, and the behaviours, quite a lot of the change that led to the R going below one occurred well before, or to some extent before, the 23rd, when the full lockdown started.”

3 – Prof Robert Dingwall on social distancing: “it was conjured up out of nowhere.

4 – just get them to read this WHO document that has never been removed, superseded or updated:


Have fun, don’t let the bastards grind you down and fuck ’em if they an’t take joke.

And do Open University instead, better prospects long term.

159634 ▶▶ Old Bill, replying to nocheesegromit, 3, #1202 of 2160 🔗

I agree too, but don’t you see, that is exactly, why he MUST go to university – to have all that common. sense kicked out of him and replaced with wokespeak.
Doubleplus ungood.

159748 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to nocheesegromit, 4, #1203 of 2160 🔗

I would 100% support this – I really wish there was something I could do rather than just sitting around moaning. This is affecting young people so catastrophically and something has to be done.

159586 DavidC, 3, #1204 of 2160 🔗

A longish but very thought provoking article on offGuardian today, about pregnancy and the possible implications of mask wearing while pregnant.



159592 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 40, #1205 of 2160 🔗

Went to get an MOT today. I know the boss, we are friends. We get on well. It’s a great garage, all the staff are great.

Today they wanted me to wear one just to go into their little office for a few secs, they have a big counter to ceiling screen with holes in it for the card machine and keys.

Obviously I said I didn’t have one. OK, the boss is very scared now about getting fined. All the staff were wearing them and gloves. The wierd thing is I know the boss is fairly sceptical. We had a big taking about “IT” back in June and I gave him some links.

So I said, there is nothing to worry about is there? You have asked me about wearing a mask, you have just done you job. I have said I am exempt obviously you will accept that won’t you? Yes he said we are friends. It’s all Bollocks I said, I know it is he said. I said, you are exempt and so are all you staff, everybody is they just don’t know it.

He fiddled with his mask, not sure whether to wear it or not.

Keys handed over, cheers cya later!

Off to get a burger from a van, nice people in the van, had a good little sceptic chat, the lady liked “conspiracy theory stuff” so was glad to get a few links from me. We had a how many people have died of it quiz as my burger was cooking. The work blokes there were engaged too, they all think its bollocks.

After the burger, into a storage warehouse, a small office, perspex screen, two people sitting male and female. I stood at the door, not sure how to proceed, they said Hi, I can come in if I wanted to. So I put on my scared covid brainwashed person voice and said Are you sure it’s safe?

They both reached for their face nappies lol, no I said please don’t do that, it freaks me out, they put them away. I said this whole mask thing is psychological warfare being waged on us. That’s another conversation, said the lady. So we just talked about storage space.

Off to the canal and I got talking to some more boaty people doing a lock. The lady was a trainee sceptic, we had a good chat. I did the how many have died quiz.

Back to the garage, talked to a young mechanic guy. He was all for masks and social distancing. He enjoys the space that SD gives him as he suffers from some kind of mental health thing. He thinks there is no harm in mandatory face covering. He was 23.

The van got it’s MOT.

Saw my Mum and we had a hug and a chat too. I don’t think she thinks I am quite so crazy now. Which is nice.

159625 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Two-Six, 4, #1206 of 2160 🔗

This gives me such hope Two-Six. I so wish my mum would come round.
Here’s hoping!
Very happy for you. Sounds like a good day!

159639 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to watashi, 9, #1207 of 2160 🔗

It wasn’t too bad. It’s still a totally psychotic dystopia out there I am just getting slightly more used to it.

Now the dystopia is so obvious my mum isn’t attacking me any more for saying all this shit is coming down the pipe line, like she was back in April. Back then she thought I was in a religious cult on the internet.

So that tide seems to have turned, unfortunately. Unfortunately because the true horror of what has unfolded is plain to see. Fortunately, she can now see it.

159648 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to watashi, 3, #1208 of 2160 🔗

Yer chin up! The sheeple will get it eventually. Probably.

159636 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Two-Six, 7, #1209 of 2160 🔗

Spreading the word, one person at a time.
Great stuff.

159643 Draper233, replying to Draper233, 9, #1210 of 2160 🔗

The Guardian reports:

Israel has passed a law that bans mass protest during the country’s coronavirus lockdown in a move government opponents have claimed exploits the health crisis to suppress demonstrations calling for Benjamin Netanyahu to resign as prime minister.”

Who’d have thought it? Corrupt politicians using the Covid smokescreen to suppress peaceful protest. Still, just an inconvenience for the zealots I presume?

159666 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Draper233, 9, #1211 of 2160 🔗

It’s a different country so The Guardian is worried about liberty. Here it doesn’t matter.

159688 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Draper233, #1212 of 2160 🔗

Well, they just have to stand in a lot of little groups.
Like Querdenken says, a good day to go for a leisurely walk.

159692 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Draper233, 5, #1213 of 2160 🔗

Israel has long experience with dealing with protesters – ask any dead Palestinian.

159779 ▶▶▶ JYC, replying to RickH, #1214 of 2160 🔗

Or ask the Palestinians who continue to fire rockets at unarmed Israelis and their families.

160096 ▶▶▶▶ peter, replying to JYC, #1215 of 2160 🔗

Heroes against the sickest country on the planet.

159655 Jules, replying to Jules, 13, #1216 of 2160 🔗

How I wish I could be alone in a room with that piss weasel Hancock for just ten minutes!

159662 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Jules, 6, #1217 of 2160 🔗

I think three or four minutes would be plenty.

159699 ▶▶▶ wayno, replying to Paul, 2, #1218 of 2160 🔗

Not to really enjoy it. It’d get the job done but no where near as satisfying

159771 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Paul, #1219 of 2160 🔗

I’d do it in 2.

159689 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Jules, 1, #1220 of 2160 🔗

I think we all want that!
His constituency office is in the next village to me. You can be first,
I’ll make sure the queue is adhering to 2 metres. But if we all queue at 6ft apart, it won’t be as long.

159702 ▶▶▶ Jules, replying to Silke David, 1, #1221 of 2160 🔗

Bet he is making himself scarce in West Suffolk at the moment!

159664 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 8, #1222 of 2160 🔗

Jeremy Hunt has just told the House of Commons that he is supporting the government on the Coronavirus Act because the erosion of liberty is not the problem facing the country.

159684 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #1223 of 2160 🔗

Did you expect anything different from a practiced time-server?

159695 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #1224 of 2160 🔗

That bumpy also thinks social distancing has been all since March 26th.

Did pull him up on this as his role as chair of the select committee on health and social care plus him not challenging Whitty about is statement on the 21st July but never got an answer from him or other committee members.


159758 ▶▶ JYC, replying to Steve Hayes, #1225 of 2160 🔗

Please tell me you have made that up.

159865 ▶▶ James, replying to Steve Hayes, #1226 of 2160 🔗

Oh. Poor deluded man.

159668 microdave, replying to microdave, 16, #1227 of 2160 🔗

I saw a part-page advert in the Mail today which made me see red:

The Great Reset

The Great Reset is a creative industry movement to embed the positive environmental shifts that have happened during lockdown as THE new normal Right now we have a small window of opportunity to reset and shape the future we want

I don’t recall being asked if I want this “New” future, do you?

They are linked with yet another sinister sounding outfit:

Purpose Disruptors

They both have the hallmarks of Common Purpose, and I’m struggling to see anyway out of the current situation with this sort of thing going on behind the scenes…

159678 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to microdave, 16, #1228 of 2160 🔗

But any mention of this sort of thing is just a conspiracy theory and all these lockdown measure are just the act of bumbling incompetents, apparently.

159708 ▶▶▶ Mike, replying to Mark H, 2, #1229 of 2160 🔗

Unfortunately the convergence of so call conspiracies’ will only become apparent to the coincidence/incompetence brigade after the fact. At which point they’ll swear blind they could see it coming all along but no one else could, I’ve already seen it happen with family members.

I’d be ecstatic if all my research was wasted and none of this madness came true…unfortunately as each day goes by it becomes more and more apparent its not ineptitude or happenstance that is driving this sh*tshow.

159727 ▶▶▶▶ helen, replying to Mike, #1230 of 2160 🔗

Quite right as obvious as the nose on our faces ..ah I see.. thats why they want us to wear masks!

159773 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mike, 1, #1231 of 2160 🔗

Enjoy, but don’t expect me to go along with it. And conspiracists are just as guilty of this, considering how often the conspiracy changes as somebody or other demolishes it, again and again and again…

160683 ▶▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Nick Rose, #1232 of 2160 🔗

Scientists are guilty of creating theories and then changing them as soon as some scientist or other comes along with an experiment that demolishes it, again and again and again.

159770 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mark H, 3, #1233 of 2160 🔗

No, but that the Great Reset means, depending which version of the conspiracy you believe, that half the world’s population is going to be forcibly starved to death, or that there will be mass sterilisations, or that nobody will be allowed to fly anywhere, yadda yadda yadda is where you fall down the rabbithole. Then the rest of us yawn, turn away and ignore the real issue.

Which is lockdowns.

160004 ▶▶▶▶ helen, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1234 of 2160 🔗

Nothing on the UN TGR site about forcible starvation or sterilisation. Time to stop yawning and start thinking. Lockdown definitely a huge issue, as is mask wearing distancing, reporting of data based on faulty tests, shoving swabs up people noses on false pretences ALL huge issues..

159687 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to microdave, 3, #1235 of 2160 🔗

A pile of thousands of emaciated corpses would be an appropriate image for their home page. This is what all of their euphemistic evasions boil down to.

159720 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to microdave, 3, #1236 of 2160 🔗

So that being the case then all those calling us conspiracy theorists can now stop doing so…

159755 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Carrie, 1, #1237 of 2160 🔗

As I do keep saying, it’s not that the Great Reset doesn’t exist, it’s half the fantasy la-la land stuff that gets added in that puts the hackles up.

159780 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1238 of 2160 🔗

Which bits of it don’t you believe, given that the agenda is on the websites quoted?

159896 ▶▶▶▶ helen, replying to Nick Rose, #1239 of 2160 🔗

What fantasy la la stuff are you thinking about please?
Read all those web sites I posted above.. listen to their videos then tell me that they are not presenting a plan of some kind.

Is it lala fantasy that FIAT currency has blown its lid with debt?
Is it lala fantasy that a transition is underway to digital currency?
Is it lala fantasy that a transition to carbon neutral is underway?

Worldwide coordination of the measures ? YES.


159808 ▶▶ leggy, replying to microdave, 1, #1240 of 2160 🔗

The normalisation of the great reset begins.

159844 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to leggy, #1241 of 2160 🔗

Yep… unfortunately … are they going to drip-feed it into the newspapers from now on…?

159984 ▶▶▶ helen, replying to leggy, #1242 of 2160 🔗

Yes, Leggy!

159836 ▶▶ ChrisW, replying to microdave, #1243 of 2160 🔗

Jesus H Christ.

Stick your New Normal up your arse.

159671 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 9, #1244 of 2160 🔗

latest NHS hospital data shows Covid 19 patients in English hospitals rose by 77 today, so yes an increase 4% in one day, but with the total now at 1958 and NHS total beds well over 100,000 I think the NHS might just cope.
Doubtless Witty & Valence will find some other figures to use to scare the bejeezus out of us later today!

159683 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Steve Martindale, 5, #1245 of 2160 🔗

It would just be easier if you could tell me how scared I need to be each day. Scale of 1 to 5 will do fine. Speaking of which I’ve forgotten what security level the country is at at the moment so I have no idea how scared I need to be about terrorism right now! It’s all pretty frightening.

159676 Jules, replying to Jules, 36, #1246 of 2160 🔗

No names, no pack drill, but a word of praise for my great hairdresser. Polish lady who did not wear a mask or expect me to wear one. No track and trace as she ‘knows her all her customers.’ She had just bought a load of disposable plastic bibs but put a normal one over the top. Left her a large tip to help toward the cost of the rubbish she has to have in her shop to satisfy the Gestapo. A great lady, showing the majority of Brits what a load of cringing jessies they really are.

159746 ▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to Jules, 5, #1247 of 2160 🔗

Well done that woman. It’s such a shame there are not more like her.

159802 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Jules, 7, #1248 of 2160 🔗

No doubt she will be able to recognise an authoritarian government when she sees one…

159679 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 5, #1249 of 2160 🔗

Sammy Wilson, hero of Parliament today

159704 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to Dan Clarke, #1250 of 2160 🔗


159749 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Telpin, 2, #1251 of 2160 🔗

Laid into the government over extended the CV Act.

159975 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Dan Clarke, #1252 of 2160 🔗


159707 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 7, #1253 of 2160 🔗

Re the lockdown protests. Has anyone else noticed the lack of coordinated colour and design of signs, banners, clothing, face paint, etc proving that this isn’t a “colour revolution”? We’re not getting any backing from the big boys… we’re fighting them!

159726 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #1254 of 2160 🔗

Good point – the folk who manufacture the colour in “colour revolutions” are still working for our governments, it’s just that instead of subverting and overthrowing uncooperative foreign governments, they are working to manipulate their own peoples to be obedient and subservient.

There’s some bitter irony there, I suppose, and one day (if any such freedom of opinion remains) a clever historian will doubtless make the case for our having allowed our governments to create the tools, for use against others, that were ultimately turned against us for our own enslavement.

159747 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #1255 of 2160 🔗

There must be at least 30 different groups at the protests, that’s not a complaint. Purely grassroots, just a shame there aren’t more…

159709 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, #1256 of 2160 🔗
159812 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Bella Donna, 4, #1257 of 2160 🔗

Thanks for the link Bella.

In addition to the main purpose of the article, it is useful to be reminded of Whitty’s comments in May (and to continued to be puzzled why there is still so much nonesense about COVID):

“[ T]he great majority of people will not die from this …Most people, a significant proportion of people, will not get this virus at all […] Of those who do, some of them will get the virus without even knowing it, they will have the virus with no symptoms at all, asymptomatic carriage […] Of those who get symptoms, the great majority, probably 80%, will have a mild or moderate disease…not bad enough for them to have to go to the doctor. An unfortunate minority will have to go as far as hospital, but the majority of those will just need oxygen and will then leave hospital.”

Why is Whitty not trumpeting this from the roof tops?

159839 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ozzie, 2, #1258 of 2160 🔗

Any journalist with a conscience would be taking this up with Whitty every time he does a press conference..

159860 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Ozzie, #1259 of 2160 🔗

Don’t forget this one:

“If you look at the R, and the behaviours, quite a lot of the change that led to the R going below one occurred well before, or to some extent before, the 23rd, when the full lockdown started.”

Only mentioned twice on the internet – once by Toby on here, once in a Hector Drummond tweet and nowhere else. H has never been challenged on it.

Stinks of government censorship.

You may not even find it on an internet search.

160272 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Ozzie, #1260 of 2160 🔗

Makes me smile; there is actually no scientific evidence that handwashing does anything to reduce transmission.

159714 Mark, 12, #1261 of 2160 🔗

Boris Johnson tonight finally bowed to demand to give MPs a vote before any fresh lockdown restrictions – after furious Speaker Lindsay Hoyle blasted him for treating the Commons with ‘contempt’.
Health Secretary Matt Hancock announced the concessions in the House, saying the government would ‘consult Parliament’ on any England-wide or UK-wide restrictions, and a vote will be held in advance ‘wherever possible’.
‘Today I can confirm to the House that for significant national measures, with effect in the whole of England or UK-wide, we will consult Parliament – wherever possible we will hold votes before such regulations come into force,’ he said.
‘But of course responding to the virus means that the Government must act with speed when required and we cannot hold up urgent regulations which are needed to control the virus and save lives .'”

It is both pathetic and ridiculous that this kind of form of words will probably enable most MPs to nod through the renewal of the enabling act and to pretend to themselves and others that they are doing their job and being “responsible”.

There simply is no credible argument for there being any actual need for the government to have emergency powers to create rules and regulations without full Parliamentary scrutiny, using existing Parliamentary procedures, at the moment. The coronavirus situation, whatever you think was the situation back in March, is incontrovertibly neither fast moving nor serious enough for that to be so, and any MP who votes for this enabling act to be renewed is either a fool or a liar, and in either case he is simply not doing the job for which he was elected.

Boris Johnson FINALLY bows to demands to give MPs vote before new lockdown curbs after furious Speaker Lindsay Hoyle blasts him for treating Commons with ‘contempt’ – but PM still faces Tory backlash over Vallance and Whitty
Boris Johnson has backed down in confrontation with Tory MPs over scrutiny of any new lockdown measures
Matt Hancock told the House that there will be debates and votes in advance of changes ‘wherever possible’
Speaker Lindsay Hoyle launched extraordinary attack on PM for holding the Commons in ‘contempt’
The PM gathered Cabinet earlier after muddling the new North East lockdown rules during chaotic speech
PM due to hold another press conference to ‘update’ public with Chris Whitty and Patrick Vallance today
Ex-aides and Tory MPs urged him to drop reliance on ‘science propaganda’ and be more accountable

159717 Basics, replying to Basics, 7, #1262 of 2160 🔗

Sridhar broadcasting on bbc live. There is an unhealthy dynamic across the UK. So that is your new attack. Unhealthy dynamic, unhealthy behaviours.

Her eyes are dead.

The people are the problem according sridhar – they just need to get it.

Prepare to be motivated to behave better.

159736 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Basics, 2, #1263 of 2160 🔗

All their eyes are dead, sign you bare a member of “the club”.

159740 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #1264 of 2160 🔗

Makes you wonder what ceremonies they go through before being appointed. Adrenochrome will be involved.

159849 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Richard O, 1, #1265 of 2160 🔗

See the released files about adrenochrome harvesting from a few days ago including companies and names?

Let me know in tomorrow’s comments and I’ll post a link to a pdf document from a whistleblower.

159721 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 7, #1266 of 2160 🔗

​Here’s astra zenicas sales promotion team

159725 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1267 of 2160 🔗

Back on the died with or of gameshow to begin.

159745 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, #1268 of 2160 🔗

Fight and defeat the virus says boris. Overwhelm nhs baaaad says boris. It is boring! It is tired it is worn.

Witty now going with the first wave recap! Good thinking chris. Late march through to july in all cause mortality, now on present conditions of cases.. i think he’s just done a switcheroo in front of the nation by using ‘wave one’ all cause mortality to confer fear of mortality a 2nd wave of cases.

159722 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 5, #1269 of 2160 🔗

I’ve just received this text from my NHS dentist: ‘CANCELLATION Due to unforeseen circumstances it will be necessary to CANCEL your DENTAL appointment on Mon 23 Nov at 11.45am Please ring the practice & we will re-book the appointment with you. Reception Team’

Is this just the backlog which they are struggling to work through or have they been tipped the wink about the expected November total lockdown, do you think? I wonder when my new appointment will be – 2021, 2022, never? MW

159733 ▶▶ CGL, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #1270 of 2160 🔗

Our dentist is uncontactable too – we’ve been able to get hold of them up to now.

159766 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #1271 of 2160 🔗

I would write and ask outright if they have been given a heads-up about a new lockdown…

160153 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Carrie, #1272 of 2160 🔗

Will do. MW

159778 ▶▶ Biggles, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #1273 of 2160 🔗

That’s a coincidence, someone I know has just had some dental work cancelled.

159834 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Biggles, 1, #1274 of 2160 🔗

Interesting… Might be worth some more asking around to see if they have had advance information of a new lockdown..

159724 Alan P, replying to Alan P, 1, #1275 of 2160 🔗

Is that Sage professor correct that half of the hospitalised Covids in March/April were not the elderly?

159782 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Alan P, 4, #1276 of 2160 🔗

No idea but don’t forget that if you are admitted for any reason if you also test positive for covid on admission or at anytime you are in hospital, you are counted as a covid admission. So if you are admitted for a heart issue, never show any symptoms of covid but test positive whilst in hospital, you are a covid admission.

159793 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to The Spingler, 3, #1277 of 2160 🔗

The worrying thing is that (given the gagging orders on NHS staff), the government can prolong the plandemic indefinitely, by bribing doctors with kickbacks to put covid on all death certificates..

159830 ▶▶ Will, replying to Alan P, 2, #1278 of 2160 🔗

Yes he probably is right because all the old people were chucked out of the hospitals to die in the care homes.

159866 ▶▶▶ Alan P, replying to Will, 2, #1279 of 2160 🔗

No, she was saying half were not elderly! Trying to peddle the old Covid is a deadly virus to everyone trope.

159731 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 8, #1280 of 2160 🔗

Ayes – 330
Noes – 24

Six more months of it

159735 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #1281 of 2160 🔗


159737 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1282 of 2160 🔗

Must have been some remote voting, but the Ayes won

159739 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #1283 of 2160 🔗

But if it saves one life …..

159756 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to arfurmo, 4, #1284 of 2160 🔗

From death by covid, if you have cancer, COPD, heart trouble, etc. etc. thats acceptable death.

159794 ▶▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Dave #KBF, 11, #1285 of 2160 🔗

Stay at home. Protect the NHS. Die of something else.

159832 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 6, #1286 of 2160 🔗

That would make a good poster! And underneath – ‘Be one of the 70,000+ who will die as a result of the NHS becoming a Covid-Only service’

159741 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Nick Rose, 7, #1287 of 2160 🔗


159743 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Nick Rose, 11, #1288 of 2160 🔗

24 noes?

What the actual fuck. Democratic process just failed millions.

159754 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1289 of 2160 🔗

Oh for fuck sake!!!

159757 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1290 of 2160 🔗

where can we find this information.

I suspect my MP was a coward despite my letter – think I must stand against him at next election

159776 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Victoria, 3, #1291 of 2160 🔗

Guido Fawkes is usually good at producing a list quite quickly..

159792 ▶▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Carrie, 1, #1292 of 2160 🔗

Annemarie Trevelyan will be getting a very brief and to the point email if she wasn’t one of the 24. Not that it’ll make a jot of a difference. We have no more power through parliament than we had in 1520.

159759 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #1293 of 2160 🔗

Who are the 24 heroes? We need to make sure we thank them for at least trying…
But a huge number basically abstained – cowards….
Time for more letters…

159850 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Carrie, #1294 of 2160 🔗

I don’t know – but you can find the answer via the parliament website.

159868 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Carrie, #1295 of 2160 🔗

There are more, by the time I realised 330+24 is nowhere near 650, I’d missed the remote vote numbers.

160138 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1296 of 2160 🔗

Loads of abstentions.
Evil prevailing etc ….

159764 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1297 of 2160 🔗

So 300 of them just didn’t bother.

159768 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 4, #1298 of 2160 🔗

And no Christmas, likely as not. I mean, if they say it is deadly, but then let people have Christmas, then it shows they don’t believe their own narrative..

159820 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, #1299 of 2160 🔗

Is that even acceptable? Do they not have a duty to vote?

159827 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Silke David, #1300 of 2160 🔗

you’d like to think so, but clearly they do not think our views matter..

160139 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Silke David, #1301 of 2160 🔗

Abstension is a valid political tool.

159872 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, #1302 of 2160 🔗

I think they did, remote voting. Ayes still won though.

159777 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Nick Rose, 6, #1303 of 2160 🔗

Complete waste of time. I would rather have no democracy at all than the illusion of a democracy. The Coronavirus Act 2020 will never be repealed. The end.

159787 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Richard O, 3, #1304 of 2160 🔗

Agreed. Parliament now consists of a bunch of fools voting on what the string quartet should play as the Titanic steers for the iceberg

159797 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 3, #1305 of 2160 🔗

They have condemned the UK to total bankruptcy now…

159806 ▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #1306 of 2160 🔗

My liver can’t take another six months of this, neither can my sanity. They have their end game in sight and nothing is going to change their evil trajectory.

159807 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1307 of 2160 🔗

“remember, remember the fifth of november, gunpowder, treason and plot”
should have a protest outside the HoC on this day!!

159841 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1308 of 2160 🔗

What happened to the 81 were ready to vote against it?

Cowards and traitorous sell-outs.

Anyone got list of the 24 Noes?

159858 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Awkward Git, #1309 of 2160 🔗

It is more Noes, because there was a lot of remote voting. Total of 200-odd Noes, but didn’t catch that number…

159752 NickR, replying to NickR, 4, #1310 of 2160 🔗

I’ve just plotted this chart from data loaded on the NHS website at 4:10 today. I know purists don’t like twin axis charts, but bear with it.
It shows that new admissions to hospital and new positive tests are following uncannily similar trend lines. However, the growth in covid bed occupancy and deaths is a far lower rate of growth.
Now, does this mean that the hospitals have got better at treating it? The CDC data suggests an average period between infection & death as 15 days, looking back 15 days the rate of growth of both new admissions and positive cases was far higher than for deaths. Or, maybe the people coming into hospital aren’t ones with severe additional illnesses that are about to kill them off anyway. Certainly admissions from care homes are pretty low.
So, maybe this is a strategy working, protecting the vulnerable, letting younger people get it who aren’t getting very ill & the relatively few somewhat more vulnerable are going to hospital and getting successfully treated.

159761 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to NickR, 2, #1311 of 2160 🔗

It may also be that the virus is mutating to be less aggressive but better at spreading. Which is what should happen under the process of natural selection, especially given how unstable RNA viruses are and prone to mutation.

160404 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, #1312 of 2160 🔗

Yes. Less virulent (virtually nobody having true Covid symptoms), but just as transmissible, if not more so.

In-vivo replication down 20-fold.

159765 ▶▶ RickH, replying to NickR, 7, #1313 of 2160 🔗

I think the explanation is in the use of testing to define a ‘case’. Same old same old – i.e if you get a positive, it becomes a Covid admission. Another aspect of the ‘casedemic’.

160398 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to NickR, #1314 of 2160 🔗

They have not got better at treating it. Just research the reality about Remdesivir and Dexamethasone.
I believe nobody is currently experiencing acute or critical illness due solely to a Covid-19 infection.
They are simply massaging the tests, so that a set percentage of all hospital admissions get a PCR positive. And they can tweak that percentage at will.

159763 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 12, #1315 of 2160 🔗

Whitty and his pathetic graphs, use very small scale on the graphs to make things look like they’re significantly increasing. F*cking jokers!

159775 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to JohnB, 5, #1316 of 2160 🔗

Who elected Whitty?

159789 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 11, #1317 of 2160 🔗

Makes a mockery of Boris’ rants about unelected EU bureaucrats when those making the decisions now are unelected UK bureaucrats.

159800 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to JohnB, 1, #1318 of 2160 🔗

Exactly – someone should remind him of this at regular intervals…

159801 ▶▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to JohnB, 1, #1319 of 2160 🔗

Absolutely right

159804 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to JohnB, 5, #1320 of 2160 🔗

Exactly. I warned all those I know who voted for Johnson to deliver Brexit that the British elite unfettered by EU regulations (pesky little things like the European Convention on Human Rights) would visit unlimited punishment on the British people.

160583 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Richard O, #1321 of 2160 🔗

The E U nations have been as bad as the UK.A written constitution didn’t stop these things being visited on the US.
At least with Brexit we know who is responsible.There is no passing the buck.

159803 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 1, #1322 of 2160 🔗

NO one!

159886 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 3, #1323 of 2160 🔗

Bill Gates.

160409 ▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Ewan Duffy, #1324 of 2160 🔗

Yes. £30m or $40m whichever you prefer.

His body language rather confirms to me what I have long suspected.

160067 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 2, #1325 of 2160 🔗

He elected himself – to the pharmacological support group and its shares.

160127 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 1, #1326 of 2160 🔗

Uncle Bill?

159781 ▶▶ Basics, replying to JohnB, 3, #1327 of 2160 🔗

Absolutely tiny scale showing trending data plotted precisely without smoothing to present a tangle of jagged angular lines to confuse the average public.

159769 Sarigan, 8, #1328 of 2160 🔗

On all the graphs, they exclude the March/April figures which would show just how much of a ripple rather than a wave. we need to extend the graphs.

159772 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 11, #1329 of 2160 🔗

Yep, there it is – lockdown caused the curve to come down. Not anything at all to do with the natural curve of the virus as seen in all other countries at similiar climates.

Or that those deaths were even due to a virus in the first place.

Absolute lies

159783 ▶▶ Alan P, replying to mhcp, 2, #1330 of 2160 🔗

Don’t forget they stopped test and trace in March/April, so the curve dropped on +ve cases!

159786 ▶▶ Happy in the Haze, replying to mhcp, 5, #1331 of 2160 🔗

And saying “hands, face, space” caused the curve to come down even though muzzle wearing wasn’t mandated until we had flatlined. Appalled.

159795 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to mhcp, 9, #1332 of 2160 🔗

Whitty himself is on record saying lockdown did not effect the curve or the R number. What a lying bastard.

159833 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Leemc23, 5, #1333 of 2160 🔗

Yep he did as the R numbers top occurred prior to population incarceration and economic destruction starting but no-one challenging him on this – MPs or MSM.

He actually said:

Select Committee for Health and Social Care, 21st July 2020:

CMO Dr Chris Whitty stated “If you look at the R, and the behaviours, quite a lot of the change that led to the R going below one occurred well before, or to some extent before, the 23rd, when the full lockdown started.”

This, in effect, means that “the virus” infection rate was dropping drastically BEFORE the incarceration of the population started and that the existing precautions – wash hands properly, coughing etiquette, stay at
home if you feel ill – were effectively controlling the spread of “the virus”.

It also means that the peak of the infections occurred PRIOR to the population incarceration commenced and as the average time from catching “the virus” to death has been widely stated as 23 days with the peak numbers of deaths occurring approximately 10-14 days from commencement of the incarceration it means that the imprisonment of the population and destruction of the economy has had NO effect whatsoever.

160417 ▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Awkward Git, #1334 of 2160 🔗

The whole R number thing is a complete fraud.
You simply cannot calculate it.
Particularly when you know that the PCR test is also complete fraud.
As soon as I saw the little diagrams of multiplying stick men, that confirmed it to me.
100% baloney.

159774 Binra, 4, #1335 of 2160 🔗

‘Defeating the virus’
is not rational or meaningful proposition
but setting a meme
War on cancer never was about healing cancer.
Healing cancer is heresy!
Why were Lynn Thyer and David Noakes extradited to a French prison?
or if you don’t want to research that much watch ‘cancer is a serious business’ for the gist of the way things (do not) work.

War on ‘Anything’ is made to protect the war lobby of whatever means are employed – funded or mandated to ‘save us’.

Iatrogenic disease may be the biggest or most popular means of leaving this world, but officially heart disease and cancer push death by medicine to third place in UK/US and perhaps other ‘developed’ countries.

The opportunity to reset to a new cooperation within the natural – regardless of what was normal, includes re-education with regard to everything. But first, the opening of a new basis from which to evaluate anything – instead of some version of ‘war on whatever’.

Death by medicine extends to death resulting from withholding medicines, and even drinking water or companionship.

While there are dependencies that may have to be released gradually, the focus of a pathological system of funded fear driven ‘medical’ intervention, is a racket.
people are pharmed for sickness – while there is a shakedown of change from the NHS or insurance, to be discards, ‘useless eaters’ or non viable businesses, for not qualifying under genetic control.

159785 tonys, replying to tonys, 12, #1336 of 2160 🔗

Whitty lying, attributing the epidemic tail off to the lockdown and by implication the rise in ‘cases’ to people no longer following ‘the rules’, presumably in a random geographical fashion, Cumbrians for example must be a law abiding lot whereas Northumbrians are dangerous anarchists.

159796 ▶▶ Basics, replying to tonys, 6, #1337 of 2160 🔗

I’ll have an L for lying please bob, blockbusters chart.

159857 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to tonys, 1, #1338 of 2160 🔗

‘Northumbrians are dangerous anarchists’

My heritage is three quarter Border Reiver and as anyone who knows Northumberland’s history will testify this bunch were lawless, marauding, pillaging ne’er do wells who recognised no authority whether from Scotland or England. Rebellious to the core—my only regret is the fact that I am one quarter French (how did that come about I wonder?) otherwise I might be really angry!

159929 ▶▶ mjr, replying to tonys, 2, #1339 of 2160 🔗

its those damned Pennines getting in the way

159790 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 20, #1340 of 2160 🔗

Johnson is lost. Walk away now. For the sake of The UK

159805 ▶▶ tonys, replying to Dave #KBF, 20, #1341 of 2160 🔗

I just can’t believe what I am seeing, the man is insane, hellbent on ‘suppressing ‘ the virus at the expense of every thing else, he is going to kill us all

159837 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to tonys, 10, #1342 of 2160 🔗

I’m expecting Derren Brown to walk in, put his hand on Johnsons shoulder, Johnson to shake his head and everyone start laughing, it was all for a Channel4 TV program.

159798 Templeton, replying to Templeton, 27, #1343 of 2160 🔗

If the NHS is overwhelmed, its your fault
If we introduce another lockdown, its your fault.

Fuck me.

159811 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Templeton, 22, #1344 of 2160 🔗

We locked down for 3 weeks so that the NHS was prepared. There are all these nightingale hospitals even though shutdown they are still on standby. The NHS has also had shed loads of extra money thrown at it and loads of PPE stockpiled. So, if we are still in a position where the NHS will be overwhelmed then we must surely be in a position now where a vote of “No Confidence” is required in the Government as they are not doing and are incapable of doing their job correctly.

159819 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to JohnB, 15, #1345 of 2160 🔗

This, however, is potentially interesting: https://twitter.com/simondolan/status/1311325405534715904

‘MP’s obviously not going to do anything, so we will.

Announcement tomorrow.’

159829 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Carrie, 6, #1346 of 2160 🔗

Last hope saloon.

159879 ▶▶▶ jb12, replying to JohnB, 10, #1347 of 2160 🔗

The hospital in Glasgow is to be dismantled having treated no-one. A bit strange if we are facing a second wave, eh?

159821 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Templeton, 9, #1348 of 2160 🔗

They seem not to notice by saying “things are going in the wrong direction” they have failed on their own terms.

159825 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, 6, #1349 of 2160 🔗

Every government measure has failed. No real surprise there, given the government and the nature of viruses.

159799 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 13, #1350 of 2160 🔗

There is a bovine stubbornness adopted by the government which gives the game way.

The political cover given to them by this common cold coronavirus is far too useful during Brexit negotiations to be given up.

The same goes for the eu…..that is why so many governments in Europe are taking the same measures with similar timings…….simple political collusion, the covering of backsides from the impact of a Brexit born out of eu incompetence and intransigence; hubris.

But there was some real anger in parliament, and that can only intensify

This country is finally waking up to the idiocy that has been perpetrated.

Some lunatic on the bbc stated that this is not a virus that predominantly affects the aged and infirm since 50% of hospital admissions were not of elderly people

Weasel words. The only reliable figures are those for overall mortality and those are plumb normal for age distribution for the entire year.

The longer the bovine insolence of this government continues, the more catastrophic its downfall

Less competent even than the Major government, the electoral armageddon that awaits will be of an even greater order than 1997

159809 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tim Bidie, 18, #1351 of 2160 🔗

One thing is sure, the Tories will NEVER EVER be electable again…

159814 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Carrie, 12, #1352 of 2160 🔗

There won’t be any free and fair elections in this country for a very long time, so it doesn’t really matter. This is a government of occupation.

159816 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Carrie, 3, #1353 of 2160 🔗

Trouble is Carrie, they have a nasty habit of reinventing themselves. I sincerely hope you’re right on this one, though.

159817 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Carrie, 1, #1354 of 2160 🔗

We’d be better of locking them all in there and throwing the key in the river.

159901 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Carrie, 1, #1355 of 2160 🔗

I can Imagine that my local blue MP with have a even higher majority, although some people here really hate her.

160428 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Carrie, #1356 of 2160 🔗

I can’t help thinking that the entire country will be in the hands of the banking cabal by then, so future elections will be immaterial and irrelevant.

Developments with the ACU2020 may trump everything however.

159810 ▶▶ Alan P, replying to Tim Bidie, 2, #1357 of 2160 🔗

Thanks, you may have answered an earlier question about elderly hospitalisations. This Sage lady was talking all not just Covid, yes?

159831 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Alan P, 7, #1358 of 2160 🔗

She was talking about covid 19 but, knowing what we now know about the PCR test, her comment was, as usual, based on junk data.

The only data of any value since the start has been overall all cause mortality

And overall all cause mortality has been bang on the five year average in this country at least since the end of June and probably earlier.

All the rest is political manoeuvring, the deliberate and laboured, robotic, rehearsed, tin eared statements a dead giveaway.

Many voters are now losing their livelihood. Many, many, conservative MPs will lose their livelihood at the next election……

160058 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Tim Bidie, 3, #1359 of 2160 🔗

Actually – all-cause mortality is bumping along at the minimum for the last 27 years. The whole shit-show is a mirage by any credible metric.

160543 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Alan P, #1360 of 2160 🔗

‘lady’ ?!?

160091 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tim Bidie, 2, #1361 of 2160 🔗

This is much bigger than Brexit.

159822 NorthumbrianNomad, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 26, #1362 of 2160 🔗

Britain is now the laughingstock of the world in its chaotic, shouty, incoherent, histrionic response to this situation. To be honest, the government and scientists now remind me of that Germanwings pilot who locked his colleague out of the cockpit and calmly and methodically flew his plane full of travellers into an Alp. They have lost their minds, The Queen should sacrifice the monarchy in a noble cause by stepping in one last time and sacking them. Or the army should take over,

159848 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 2, #1363 of 2160 🔗

How is this not against the Bill of Rights?

159864 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to mhcp, 3, #1364 of 2160 🔗

It is against it..

159882 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 5, #1365 of 2160 🔗

We need a higher intervention. Queen or Army, except she isn’t up to it given age and vulnerability. Army too small.

Popular support for lockdown – idiotic implementation aside – remains high.

A few more gaffes and we chip away more and more…this is a waiting game.

159906 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to jhfreedom, 2, #1366 of 2160 🔗

A simple ‘Boris Out’ movement. Covers all bases – sceptics, critical bedwetters and lefties.

159911 ▶▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #1367 of 2160 🔗

But then you need something in, in his place. Otherwise you’re Germany in 1919.

160054 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to jhfreedom, #1368 of 2160 🔗

Queen or Army”

Establishment as a counter to an establishment coup. What a f.ing brilliant idea!

Get real.

159889 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 7, #1369 of 2160 🔗

I have tried to draw up a list of the phrases being used to describe our actions with regard to this virus;

Beat the virus
Suppress the virus until a vaccine is available
Defeat the virus
control the virus
whack-a-mole the virus
stop the spread of this virus
against our common enemy: coronavirus.
our fight against #coronavirus
winning the war on covid.
Then we can fight back against this virus
Crush and Contain the Coronavirus
We are making the tough decisions to get this virus down.
Beat back the virus
Push back the virus
Contain the virus
Bearing down on the virus
Get on top of this virus
get the virus down
the battle against the virus

This plethora of phrases and tonight’s statement indicate to me that we do not really know where we are heading on this? Do they think the virus is going to be eradicated?, what does suppress mean? Just bumbling along with lockdowns when numbers rise a bit seems the worst of all worlds, just drags it all out for ever.
Their only end game seems to be a vaccine.

159925 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, #1370 of 2160 🔗

What army?

160049 ▶▶ RickH, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 1, #1371 of 2160 🔗

The army, FFS? I thought we were arguing against totalitarianism.

… and the forces are up to their necks in this. – 77th Brigade?

159826 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 11, #1372 of 2160 🔗

I mean did anyone really expect anything different? Us sceptics are living off scraps to keep the hope alive.

159843 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Achilles, 6, #1373 of 2160 🔗

I think some of us were prepared to give parliament the benefit of the doubt, even though we knew what would happen. But now we know. We await a Caesar. Not just a buffoon dressed in Caesar’s ill-fitting clothes.

159862 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Achilles, 6, #1374 of 2160 🔗

I don’t know what to do. I can’t take much more of this nonsense. Many of my friends are ‘happy’ to be returning to our church this Sunday despite all the restrictions. I can’t get my head around that at all.

159874 ▶▶▶ David, replying to Moomin, 2, #1375 of 2160 🔗

Start your own religion.

159878 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Moomin, 6, #1376 of 2160 🔗

Yes, the idea that restrictions ‘facilitate’ is nuts in my view.

They simply resurrect a ghastly version of what went before.

I have quit eating out and going to shops and will wait years to return if I have to.

159922 ▶▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to jhfreedom, 4, #1377 of 2160 🔗

I do think that dissociating is probably the best and healthiest way, for the individual. Find out what you don’t actually need, and do without it. Become more self sufficient. Separate yourself. (Just don’t get cancer.)

160079 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #1378 of 2160 🔗

restrictions ‘facilitate’ is classic doublethink.

159853 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to arfurmo, 1, #1380 of 2160 🔗

To be fair, there’s no cleaning deep enough for a bar in Byker.

159859 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 1, #1381 of 2160 🔗

Freetrade -best pub in the land .

159870 ▶▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to arfurmo, #1382 of 2160 🔗

Fair enough. I was just making a cheap shot. Wait… cheap shots… they’ve got to be antiviral, haven’t they?

160064 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to arfurmo, 1, #1383 of 2160 🔗

Sitting in the beer garden?!

159847 Richard O, 7, #1384 of 2160 🔗

The Palace of Westminster 2030: Amazon distribution centre plus a small exhibit entitled The Museum of the Failure of Democracy.

159852 Kate, replying to Kate, 1, #1385 of 2160 🔗

How do I find out how my MP voted on the coronavirus act renewal today?

159854 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Kate, #1386 of 2160 🔗

Not that likely it was against is it really

159855 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Kate, 3, #1387 of 2160 🔗

Didn’t all but 24 vote for? If your MP is Lab or Con – you got screwed – as did I.

159888 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #1388 of 2160 🔗

Only 570 voted in total, so lots of abstentions..

159908 ▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Carrie, 2, #1389 of 2160 🔗

Just had a happy thought – what if those abstentions have been meeting secretly, planning a coup? Just waiting to see how the house voted today before launching a blinder?

159861 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Kate, 1, #1390 of 2160 🔗
159887 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Carrie, 2, #1391 of 2160 🔗

My MP is Caroline Lucas and she told me she would vote against. She did not take part in the debate as far as I could see.

159894 ▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Kate, #1392 of 2160 🔗

Carrie, thanks for the link

159900 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Kate, #1393 of 2160 🔗

You would think the result would be uploaded immediately as it is electronic – surely they are not going to make this one confidential?

159949 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Carrie, 1, #1394 of 2160 🔗

Just posted the links up the page a bit.

160044 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Carrie, #1395 of 2160 🔗

Don’t get paranoid, Carrie – there’s enough to get worried about. It just takes time to check out data.

159926 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Kate, 1, #1396 of 2160 🔗

Lucas did vote against, as she said she would.

160003 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Kate, #1397 of 2160 🔗

One person who did not lie..

159910 ▶▶ James007, replying to Kate, 3, #1398 of 2160 🔗


There were 7 “Conservative” MPs sufficiently conservative to vote against.
There were 9 liberal “Liberal” Democrats who cared about democracy to vote against.
There were 6 Labour MPs cared enough about working people to vote against.

159856 Moomin, 6, #1399 of 2160 🔗

These covidiots running the show need to go.

159867 Farinances, replying to Farinances, 13, #1400 of 2160 🔗

So they just keep arbitrarily slapping on local restrictions all over the place, so they never have to have a vote at all.

Did anyone in the commons point this out?

Making preparations to leave this democracy-void shithole.

159873 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Farinances, #1401 of 2160 🔗

How? Where is good to go?

159885 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to CGL, 2, #1402 of 2160 🔗

Everywhere is better than here atm.

Well….. almost everywhere in Europe anyway.

Obviously not gulag NZ or Australia or Blue State US.

160147 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to CGL, #1403 of 2160 🔗

Restrictions lifted in FL, USA

159917 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Farinances, 1, #1404 of 2160 🔗

Sammy Wilson DUP

159945 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Tim Bidie, 2, #1405 of 2160 🔗

Thank god someone did

160117 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Tim Bidie, #1406 of 2160 🔗

And yet he didn’t vote. Grandstanding

160267 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #1407 of 2160 🔗

FFS. Why don’t these people back up what they say with a VOTE?!?

160456 ▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Farinances, #1408 of 2160 🔗

They are whipped. His entire DUP party abstained. Privately though he’s pushing back where he can, but he’s also vying for the Party leadership

159869 Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, 6, #1409 of 2160 🔗

Apologies if someone has already posted this from the DT site (Johnson speaking):

“Yesterday we saw the biggest rise in daily cases since the pandemic began and today a further 7,108. We’ve also had a tragic increase in the number of daily deaths with 71 yesterday and again today.

These figures show why our plan is so essential. We have to stick to it together and we should stick to it with confidence.”

Didn’t someone on here say that the 71 included a number of previous day? The biggest rise in daily cases – surely he means the ones that were tested? There weren’t even 7000 tests available at the start of all this were there?

159875 ▶▶ jb12, replying to Ozzie, 7, #1410 of 2160 🔗

Exactly. He is talking to the majority who don’t look into anything he says though, so what does it matter?

159935 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to jb12, 6, #1411 of 2160 🔗

And Hancock purports to think that 265 is double 205. It’s Trumpier than Trump. They trump Trump in their trumpeting of trumped-up trumpery.

159877 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ozzie, 6, #1412 of 2160 🔗

Does BJ *know* the stats he is reading are a lie, or does he not bother to check them and just rely on some minion to write his speeches and that said minion has fact-checked them?

159881 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Carrie, 3, #1413 of 2160 🔗

That is the question. The lies are so transparent and relentless, one is forced either to find these people to be so imbecilic ax to be unworthy of running a whelk still, or to start to give credence to some sort of conspiracy theory, even if it’s just everyone conspiring to cover their own vast backsides.

159884 ▶▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, #1414 of 2160 🔗

*as* a whelk *stall*

159890 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Carrie, 3, #1415 of 2160 🔗

Of course they do not want us to know that 7ooo test results are spread over several days. , so we actually had around 4000 yesterday. and the day before

159902 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Carrie, 1, #1416 of 2160 🔗

It seems implausible that he doesn’t know what’s what

159972 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Ozzie, 4, #1417 of 2160 🔗

It is disgraceful of them to misuse numbers in this way, there are 2 death graphs one by date of death and the other by date of the death being recorded. They pluck the number out to suit their purpose. Death stats seem to come out in batches and you need to look at the trend over at least a week. And even then the only really credible death stats are the ONS stats of registered deaths that come out a bit later.
They did acknowledge that they were doing fewer tests in March/April but that did not stop them doing the usual armageddon gloom & doom routine.

159897 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Ewan Duffy, 6, #1419 of 2160 🔗

It’s that core cabal of Pfeffel, Hancock, Witless and Valance that need breaking up.

160030 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #1420 of 2160 🔗

That will simply clear the way for new glove puppets for the background psychopaths.

159903 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Ewan Duffy, 3, #1421 of 2160 🔗

This is a good article – we need to be demanding evidence for all the idiotic rules that have come into being. Whilst on that topic, has anyone seen any evidence that muzzles work – heard lots state that there is (not here I hasten to add) but I wonder if it is just a rehash of the DT’s diagrammatic explanation?

159947 ▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to Ewan Duffy, 5, #1422 of 2160 🔗

There are some pretty acerbic comments there.
The author is clearly distancing himself from the 10pm decision and saying the government can’t hide behind “the science” on that one.
Little by little Johnson et al are being undermined; the edifice will crash down eventually. We have to hope that it’s sooner rather than later.

160060 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Ewan Duffy, #1423 of 2160 🔗

Increasingly divided comments at the BBC and Guardian sites. This was a pipe dream only a few weeks ago.

159883 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 17, #1424 of 2160 🔗

A rather unremarkable press conference, aside for confirming that the hospitalisations and especially into ICU is almost exclusively over 75s. I thought, however, the ‘mood’ was one of preparing the way to back down or change strategy. Interesting question from Beff asking Whitty, specifically, if he obeys the rules on mixing of households – what does she know?

159891 ▶▶ Will, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 8, #1425 of 2160 🔗

There is definitely a change in mood. If it is true that Ferguson and Imperial are gone I think Vallance will be next before Whitty is exposed as having been breaking the rules.

159921 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Will, 2, #1426 of 2160 🔗

Have noticed that Professor Edmunds now speaks on radio “in a personal capacity”.

160057 ▶▶▶▶ Nic, replying to Tom Blackburn, #1427 of 2160 🔗

Ye hes a total cunt

160024 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Will, #1428 of 2160 🔗

… which is always the method for keeping the real culprits in place ready to screw the populace afresh.

159892 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #1429 of 2160 🔗

Maybe they have photos of him *not* doing so? He’s an advisor so won’t have police protection, security or anything..at least he shouldn’t have!

159895 ▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Carrie, 2, #1430 of 2160 🔗

The cunt will need it

159893 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #1431 of 2160 🔗

Rigby Beth. In summary states boris keeps making ‘rukes/guidance/laws/whatever but, she said, “all the signs are the public aren’t listening anymore”.

159899 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #1432 of 2160 🔗

I felt the witty mixing question was loaded as you did. Has someone got a photograph?

159907 ▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 8, #1433 of 2160 🔗

They started unscrewing Vallance last week, and Whitty next. I agree – tectonic plates are moving. I hope. But then …..

160438 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1434 of 2160 🔗

He is a bachelor, I believe, in case you’re interested..

159898 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 12, #1435 of 2160 🔗
159905 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #1436 of 2160 🔗

FFS! Beam me up Scotty.

159923 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Cheezilla, #1437 of 2160 🔗

How long is it extended for|?

159960 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to godowneasy, 4, #1438 of 2160 🔗

6 long, cold, dark months

159964 ▶▶▶▶ godowneasy, replying to leggy, #1439 of 2160 🔗

thanks – just planning my hibernation

159961 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to godowneasy, #1440 of 2160 🔗

No info as yet.

159996 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to godowneasy, #1441 of 2160 🔗

6 months… until they vote to extend again…

160050 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #1442 of 2160 🔗

Thanks. At least it wasn’t for a straight 2 years.

159904 bucky99, replying to bucky99, 2, #1443 of 2160 🔗

Remember, remember the 30th September…

Spineless bastards.

160142 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to bucky99, #1444 of 2160 🔗

A month and a bit before the burning begins…

159909 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 7, #1445 of 2160 🔗

MP’s who voted against Coronavirus Act 2020 (Review of Temporary Provisions) Motion:

Stephen Farry

Peter Bone
Phillips Davies
Phillips Hollobone
Esther McVey
Desmond Swayne
Charles Walker
William Wragg

Caroline Lucas

Dawn Butler
Kevan Jones
Rebecca Long-Bailey
John Spellar
Graham Stringer
Derek Twigg

Lib Dems
All MPs

159912 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to JohnB, 4, #1446 of 2160 🔗

Do we start rallying behind the Lib Dems? 🤷‍♂️

159914 ▶▶▶ Snake Oil Pussy, replying to Tom Blackburn, #1447 of 2160 🔗

Or the Green Party?

159946 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, 1, #1448 of 2160 🔗

No chance – and I used to vote Green!

159959 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1449 of 2160 🔗

Caroline Lucas did vote against. I must e-mail and thank her.

160011 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Kate, 4, #1450 of 2160 🔗

Actually, without any sectarian edge, I think that’s worth doing – bolster the MPs who have some credibility and principle.

160017 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to RickH, #1451 of 2160 🔗

I did email with thanks

159915 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tom Blackburn, 13, #1452 of 2160 🔗

No Baker or Brady, couple of spineless c*nts!

159918 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to JohnB, 3, #1453 of 2160 🔗

I suspect Baker is going to be a stalking horse to bring BJ down.

159938 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Nick Rose, 6, #1454 of 2160 🔗

Very possible. Also possible is Mark Harper. Both were in the HoC ‘supporting’ Sir Graham when Hancock spoke this afternoon. Boris used up a lot of political capital today, in my view.

159980 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1455 of 2160 🔗

I get the impression that a lot in the HoC have had enough of the nonsense too, even if their “scepticism” is totally different from ours.

160028 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1456 of 2160 🔗

Why would any of the 330 who voted for the renewal of the act NOT support the PM in a leadership contest?

160206 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, #1457 of 2160 🔗

Exactly – worrying..

160217 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 1, #1458 of 2160 🔗

It’s quite possible that a particular “Conservative” MP believes a new leader is needed as soon as possible, but felt that tactically being seen to vote against the government on this issue would not be wise personally. I suspect a lot of MPs are looking at the polls (and possibly their postbags) and seeing that there are a lot of bedwetters out there, some of them viciously obsessive zealots, who will target them personally if they put their heads too far above the parapet by voting against the government on such a signature issue as this. In such matters, it makes political sense only to join a rebellion when its success is a forgone conclusion. Which of course often means walking dead PMs can last for quite a while. So cowardice or pragmatism, depending how you want to spin it.

Note, I write this not to defend or advocate such behaviour, merely to put forward a likely explanation.

159993 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1459 of 2160 🔗

But now he will have ZERO credibility with the public…

160005 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Carrie, 1, #1460 of 2160 🔗

“the public” … you mean the mask wearers?

159967 ▶▶▶▶ Seamonster, replying to JohnB, #1461 of 2160 🔗

Agreed. Joke.

160530 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, #1462 of 2160 🔗

Nor Drax.

159916 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #1463 of 2160 🔗

Things that desperate?

159927 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Awkward Git, #1464 of 2160 🔗

In a word – yes.

159939 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #1465 of 2160 🔗

Think a letter trying to start investigation into treason coming on.

159920 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #1466 of 2160 🔗

Look what happens when they actually get into power- usually in a disatrous coalition.

It was a purely political vote.

160022 ▶▶▶ JohnMac, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #1467 of 2160 🔗

Well, I wouldn’t trust them after the last four years.

159919 ▶▶ mrjoeaverage, replying to JohnB, 3, #1468 of 2160 🔗

And this was the email I got from Drax. So therefore, HE LIED TO ME!!!!!!!!!!!!

159928 ▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to mrjoeaverage, #1469 of 2160 🔗

He is a lier

159934 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mrjoeaverage, 6, #1470 of 2160 🔗

It was inevitable.

When it comes to the crunch, the Tories won’t break ranks. They knew that to end the Act would be to be to destabilise the government and they won’t risk that.

A purely political vote at the expense of their country and democracy.
Traitors all!

160002 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1471 of 2160 🔗

Actually – with that majority, they would not have been jeopardizing the government in the least.

Plain self-seeking cowardice.

160047 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RickH, #1472 of 2160 🔗

It would have necessitated a vote of no confidence in de Piffle and they clearly aren’t ready to replace him yet – the own petard effect. More politics.

159956 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to mrjoeaverage, #1473 of 2160 🔗

Yep he voted for (not just abstained)

159966 ▶▶▶ Morse, replying to mrjoeaverage, 1, #1474 of 2160 🔗

Are you surprised? Lying, being duplicitous and conniving are in the job description.

159988 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to mrjoeaverage, 1, #1475 of 2160 🔗

Make sure he knows you checked up on how he voted..

159924 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to JohnB, 2, #1476 of 2160 🔗

This lot have no vote recorded against them:


craven and supine.

159931 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1477 of 2160 🔗

Conservatives only ones who voted aye.

No other party.


159942 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, #1478 of 2160 🔗

The rest are traitors for merely abstaining. Though hopefully it was a warning to de Piffle and co.

Putting politics before the good of the people.
Plus ca change …..

159987 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1479 of 2160 🔗

Including Boris – he did not even bother to vote…

Nor Duncan Smith, Chope, Edward Leigh..

And of course most of the cabinet, like Priti and Raab, plus Sunak

159930 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to JohnB, 7, #1480 of 2160 🔗

Shit me, I just gained some respect for Butler, Lucas and Long-Bailey. .

Then again they prob only did it to oppose the evil Tories

159969 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Farinances, #1481 of 2160 🔗

Well – that’s not a difficult decision 🙂

159933 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to JohnB, 4, #1482 of 2160 🔗

Also like….. wtf. The Lib Dems have suddenly grown a pair? !

159983 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Farinances, #1483 of 2160 🔗

I know!

Only SEVEN Tories voted no… says it all about where their loyalties lie..

159997 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Farinances, 1, #1484 of 2160 🔗

To be cynical – I guess they’ve got nothing to lose.

But a right decision is right.

159952 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to JohnB, 3, #1485 of 2160 🔗

I genuinely don’t understand why more didn’t vote against and why Brady and Clarke didn’t either! Why?

160039 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Moomin, #1486 of 2160 🔗


159963 ▶▶ Seamonster, replying to JohnB, 1, #1487 of 2160 🔗

That’s a farce. The whipping that’s been going on is out of control.

159965 ▶▶ kenadams, replying to JohnB, 4, #1488 of 2160 🔗

Esther McVey might be worth trying to cultivate. She seems to care/understand normal working people/SMEs etc. She’s a ‘blue conservative’.

159974 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to JohnB, 1, #1489 of 2160 🔗

All credit to the lib dems

159981 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to JohnB, 1, #1490 of 2160 🔗

So these are the only people we can trust..

159982 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Carrie, #1491 of 2160 🔗

I wouldn’t even trust them if I were you, lol

159990 ▶▶ RickH, replying to JohnB, 7, #1492 of 2160 🔗

I was just about to post a link – so thanks for that.

But how depressing – with the LibDems being he only party to get it right, FFS.

Baker and Brady : chocolate soldiers, easily bought. Majority of Labour – no better. Tories predictable. Carolyne Lucas – comes good.

But what a f.ing useless shower of w.kers as a whole.

‘Mother of Parliaments’? More the Old Slag turning a trick for any good offer.

160097 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to RickH, 1, #1493 of 2160 🔗

Lib Dems have a moment now to capitalise on this but they’d need to come right out and push hard for the alternative narratives to be heard. They’ll still be unpopular in the short run, especially in the mainstream media, but shall only be on a winning hand for tbe long run. Especially considering how anonymous they are politically right now, a bit of radicalism can only be a good thing.

160018 ▶▶ JohnMac, replying to JohnB, 7, #1494 of 2160 🔗

Only seven actual Conservative MPs then, with actual Conservative beliefs.

160223 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to JohnMac, #1495 of 2160 🔗

Sounds about right, proportion-wise.

160025 ▶▶ Stephanos, replying to JohnB, 2, #1496 of 2160 🔗

I have just written to Sir Desmond Swayne (he REALLY deserves his knighthood) to thank him and to say also that he has earned the right to lay a wreath at the local war memorial and at the cenotaph as well. Greg Smith (my MP) has forfeited that right. So has Johnson and his entire cabinet. Criminals the lot.

160029 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to JohnB, 2, #1497 of 2160 🔗

But only just over half of MPs voted. So the “protest” vote was not to vote at all.

Please clap FFS

160046 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to JohnB, 1, #1498 of 2160 🔗

I see my Tory MP in my home constituency, who is usually as useful as a chocolate teapot, has finally done something right!

159936 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 21, #1499 of 2160 🔗

Bojo is threatening us with a second national lockdown: We must stand firm or freedom will just be a memory.

159937 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1500 of 2160 🔗

Well what he said was he didnt want us to have one but we all know where that one goes dont we

159948 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Fingerache Philip., 10, #1501 of 2160 🔗

He won’t categorically rule it out as politicians in other countries have recently, which I interpret to mean that it is still very likely to happen.

159976 ▶▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to Richard O, 10, #1502 of 2160 🔗

There won’t be a second national lockdown in name.

The govt are just encouraging local authorities to request local lockdowns, so their fingers are not all over it, and they can say (oh so virtuously) that they were responding to the people who were in touch with grassroots situations and opinion. i.e. it’s another completely cynical ploy.
Eventually it will be a de facto national lockdown but no-one will be able to blame them for the ensuing economic and social holocaust.

159979 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to TheOriginalBlackPudding, 4, #1503 of 2160 🔗

Agreed. Khan can’t wait to close London.

160101 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to TheOriginalBlackPudding, 1, #1504 of 2160 🔗

It also allows them to not to help anyone financially like in the first lockdown

160122 ▶▶▶▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #1505 of 2160 🔗

Very true.

159973 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Fingerache Philip., 7, #1506 of 2160 🔗

My reading of today was it was to set the stage for a change of strategy. Possible there is a national ‘circuit break’ for 10 days/2 weeks at half term, but that will be it – declare victory and move on. The economy is about to tank, and that is as likely to be driving the decision as number of ‘cases’ and deaths. Anticipate a reduction in the amplification runs on the PCR testing regime, and retrospective downwards adjustments of the death data ‘from’ covid for September/October to support the decision for opening up in November. They know a vaccine is not going to be available any time soon, if at all.

159992 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #1507 of 2160 🔗

I don’t think a vaccine is coming at all. And this “spike” in numbers is sus too.

159994 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 9, #1508 of 2160 🔗

Covid-19 might not be the issue soon though. The problem with the operating model we now have is that any respiratory virus will lead to the same dreadful policies being reused again and again.

160023 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Richard O, 4, #1509 of 2160 🔗

That is the big concern as it is a likely plan of theirs..

160103 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to Carrie, #1510 of 2160 🔗

The only counter I can think of to this is that people have been dying of Influenza /pneumonia in fairly large numbers in the last month and there has been no collating of numbers as ‘respiratory’ deaths.

160086 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Richard O, 3, #1511 of 2160 🔗

This has been my fear from day 1. When Covid runs out of steam the sheeple will realize that they’ve been killing people by spreading flu every year and will sign on to this government overreach indefinitely. Just like the BLM self-flagellation we see going on, these same virtue-signalling ignoramuses will start asking forgiveness for every sniffle they left the house with and possibly passed on to someone’s grandma. If the “new normal” persists I think it’ll be hard to deny that something bigger is going on and that Covid was simply the opportunity to get the ball rolling.

160449 ▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Richard O, #1512 of 2160 🔗

Yes indeed. Given the chance.

160020 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #1513 of 2160 🔗

Why would this be the plan, as opposed to another 6 months of nonsense?

If they wanted to climb down, they could have done it at virtually any point once the spike in deaths had faded

160031 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Julian, #1514 of 2160 🔗

I suspect they want to be certain a “second wave” is not about to fall on us and if, as we all suspect, this is a seasonal infection, they want to wait till the winter.

It would have been much easier if they’d just followed the Swedish model in the first place…

160201 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, 3, #1515 of 2160 🔗

To introduce the global reset, under the cover of the p(l)andemic…

160354 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, 2, #1516 of 2160 🔗

Holding out for the economic reset. Have to blame the virus, not the bankers.

160027 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #1517 of 2160 🔗

This is all about T&T (ie surveillance and control) more than vaccination though, surely?

160052 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #1518 of 2160 🔗

I think vaccination was the end game, and Boris & Co thought it would be ready in September. Sarah Gilbert was certain the Oxford Vaccine would work, but she did not count on transverse myelitis as a side effect in early trials. Boris’s opportunity to be ‘King of the World’ was based on the UK’s pre-eminence in biotech/biochem/vaccine research. As a nation, we are not pre-eminent in Silicon Valley-style technology.

160352 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1519 of 2160 🔗

I hope you’re right.

160445 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1520 of 2160 🔗

Sorry, TT. Economic destruction is intentional, I believe.

They are spending money as fast as they possibly can.

Spending £100B on Moonshine to incarcerate your own population is the coup de grâce.

160582 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Kevin 2, #1521 of 2160 🔗

They can’t have any intention of ever paying this money back.
They must know this is the end of sterling and a new monetary system is on the way.
Or they have all gone stark raving mad

159989 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Fingerache Philip., 12, #1522 of 2160 🔗

I’ve come to the conclusion that they’re never letting us out. These restrictions will remain in one form or another for the foreseeable future. This will be the New Normal that they warned us about right at the beginning.

160033 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Lms23, 3, #1523 of 2160 🔗

Correct, the chance to end it all was when the gimp masks were brought in. Everybody should of pushed back then, there has been no logical reason for it. If everybody had not complied the scam was dead.

Too late now!

160276 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to stefarm, 1, #1524 of 2160 🔗

Too many had already been terrified into compliance, plus those who believe the bs the government has been pushing onto us.

160062 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Lms23, 6, #1525 of 2160 🔗

Letting us out? Come on man. You’re a long way from that surely. Rule or no rules. Your life has value. I’M NOT GONNA TAKE THIS ANYMORE!!!!!

159953 Nessimmersion, replying to Nessimmersion, 28, #1526 of 2160 🔗

Design suggestion:

159957 ▶▶ JamesDrebin, replying to Nessimmersion, 9, #1527 of 2160 🔗

Eggs. Fucking. Zactly.

159970 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Tom Blackburn, #1529 of 2160 🔗

If you’re sleeping rough you get extra if you’ve got a dog don’t you? Worth bearing in mind anyway.

159962 ianric, 2, #1530 of 2160 🔗

Previously myself and others have raised the issue of how credible the notion of asymptomatic spread is with coronavirus. Are there any other diseases where asymptomatic spread is widely accepted and has it been the belief in previous epidemics and pandemics healthy asymptomatic people have been equally regarded as disease carriers as sick people with symptoms.

159968 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #1531 of 2160 🔗

A smigeon of good news, maybe:
Hancock says government to drop Coronavirus Act provisions weakening Mental Health Act protections Hancock told MPs that one part of the Coronavirus Act was being dropped.
The act allowed people to be sectioned under the Mental Health Act on the basis of the opinion of just one doctor, not two. It also allowed the time limits for these orders to be extended.
Hancock said that, even when the act was passed, he was not convinced this part was necessary. Now it will be dropped, he said. He said the government would introduce secondary legislation to remove this provision in the bill.
(Grad Live)

This was one of the most insidious parts of the Act. However, given Ellwood’s speech yesterday, I’m not sure there’s much comfort to find. I’m sure they’ll soon find a second compliant doc.

159991 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1532 of 2160 🔗

I wasn’t even aware of the change to the sectioning requirements. could we have found a doctor prepared to section Boris?

160016 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to p02099003, #1533 of 2160 🔗

Only if he refuses to be vaccinated!

160519 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to p02099003, #1534 of 2160 🔗

Quite probably – which will be why they’ve gone back to two being needed.

159977 Tom Blackburn, 1, #1535 of 2160 🔗
159978 Hubes, replying to Hubes, 76, #1536 of 2160 🔗

I’m not sure another lockdown would be any different to what we currently have. Going out anywhere is so bleak and depressing now that it’s not worth it, unless for food, work or exercise. It’s horrible seeing masks, signs and bullshit everywhere and now being asked to sign in at places too. Fuck off. Plus you can’t go to sporting events or concerts still.

The only time you can relax and feel like it’s all normal is in your house. I think I’d rather stay in and just have friends and family round or go round their houses. I can’t believe how much damage they’ve done to society in such a short time.

159985 ▶▶ Roadrash, replying to Hubes, 8, #1537 of 2160 🔗

Except we can’t even have friends around in our local lockdown area

159998 ▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to Roadrash, 13, #1538 of 2160 🔗

You can if they are providing medical or emergency assistance. Not sure what emergency assistance is, but just invite anybody round and if your neighbours grass you up claim that. What a country we now live in

160037 ▶▶▶ Nic, replying to Roadrash, 5, #1539 of 2160 🔗

Ye ignore it

160006 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Hubes, 3, #1540 of 2160 🔗

It’s actually what you would do if the economy is in a depression and you have to be frugal. It’s defensive and doesn’t bode well.

160012 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Hubes, 21, #1541 of 2160 🔗

They want us to stay home and buy online.
We then need to communicate with each other electronically which is easily monitored.
No social mixing means less possibility or organising dissent.

160014 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #1542 of 2160 🔗


160134 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Cheezilla, #1543 of 2160 🔗

I know old and shared but never more apt:


160343 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sarigan, #1544 of 2160 🔗

Exactly. Very appropriate!
Maybe we should start an 8pm Mad As Hell chant?

160053 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Hubes, 21, #1545 of 2160 🔗

I totally agree. Ever since mask mandates I’ve been under lockdown anyway so nothing would change for me. I, too, find it very depressing to be out and about and my blood pressure goes up seeing all the masked zombies wearing them outside and in their cars when there is, as yet, no requirement to do so. I get together with whomever I please — by definition anyone socializing is a sceptic or at least not a crazed hysteric. Restaurants are miserable; if I wanted to see masks everywhere I’d eat in a hospital cafeteria. I won’t give my personal details either, so it’s takeout for us. It’s people who can’t disconnect to the same extent I feel sorry for. If I had young kids I’d be homeschooling. I could not tolerate wearing a mask at work, as 5 minutes is my physical and psychological limit. I can only hope social life will resume at some point and that we aren’t irreversibly scarred by this insanity.

160073 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Hubes, 8, #1546 of 2160 🔗

I agree, I just cannot engage at all with this new society. Goodness knows what I’m going to do after uni ends next Summer…

160084 ▶▶ Cruella, replying to Hubes, 7, #1547 of 2160 🔗

The same. I haven’t been anywhere but work for a long time. It really hit me the last wknd, so little to do. It will become more difficult as outdoor stuff become inhibited by the pissing rain.

159995 Hopeful, replying to Hopeful, 14, #1548 of 2160 🔗

Just got a text from my local chemist. Says be prepared for potential Covid19 disruption. Get your stuff from your GP asap essentially. First dentists, now chemists…WTF is coming folks?

160000 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Hopeful, 3, #1549 of 2160 🔗

Very interesting. Could you ask them what their reasons are for communicating this warning?

160008 ▶▶▶ Hopeful, replying to Richard O, 1, #1550 of 2160 🔗

Will do first thing tomorrow and post the response I get. Thanks.

160019 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Hopeful, 1, #1551 of 2160 🔗

Cheers, appreciated.

160013 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Hopeful, 2, #1552 of 2160 🔗

Is that actually also related to Brexit? CV19 is a convenient smokescreen for any disruption caused by that..

160026 ▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to Carrie, 1, #1553 of 2160 🔗

That’s a good shout. Makes more sense than having anything to do with covid.

160327 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Hubes, #1554 of 2160 🔗

Yes. They were stockpiling drugs this time last year in anticipation of Brexit.

160035 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Carrie, -1, #1555 of 2160 🔗

I doubt it. Companies love selling their product, Brexit won’t make any difference to that, despite the dreams of a certain type of Remoaner (as opposed to a Remainer), who actually wants it to go wrong.

160459 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Carrie, 1, #1556 of 2160 🔗

After food, imported drug supplies is the second most critical item that will be disrupted. Assuming the lights stay on for a while that is.

160021 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to Hopeful, 3, #1557 of 2160 🔗

I’m not sure why covid would have any impact on prescriptions now. It didn’t impact them in March/April. Are the millions of non existent dead bodies that we’ll have from covid gonna block all the roads or something. More panic inducing stuff. Telling everybody to order their prescriptions at the same time is a stupid idea from the chemists.

160065 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Hubes, 1, #1558 of 2160 🔗

in March there was a rumour that paracetamol was effective against covid and for a couple of weeks they were sold out .

160331 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Hubes, #1559 of 2160 🔗

Lorry parks and tailbacks?

160074 ▶▶ Cruella, replying to Hopeful, #1560 of 2160 🔗

Nothing, they’re just planning for a potential.

160197 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Hopeful, #1561 of 2160 🔗

Maybe they are also expecting another lockdown? So trying to warn people to stock up?
Or maybe they believe the scaremongering and that there are likely to be shortages?

Here in Sweden people did try to stockpile things briefly at the beginning (after seeing the supermarket chaos in the UK with loo roll) so they did put a limit on how much medicine people were allowed to buy at once.. And there were briefly some interruptions in supply chains. But not now, as far as I know..

160510 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Hopeful, #1562 of 2160 🔗

At a guess, more marketing material. Ask them to delete your phone number.

159999 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 12, #1563 of 2160 🔗


Today I can confirm to the house that for significant national measures, with effect in the whole of England or UK-wide , we will consult parliament. Wherever possible we will hold votes before such regulations come into force.
(Grad Live)

So he can still tweet out local mockdowns on Sunday evenings!

160010 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, 9, #1564 of 2160 🔗

‘whenever possible’ is the ultimate get-out clause…

160196 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Carrie, 2, #1565 of 2160 🔗

It’s on par with your parents saying “We’ll see” when you used to ask for something.

160034 ▶▶ Stephanos, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1566 of 2160 🔗

What does ‘significant’ mean? Who decides what is ‘significant’? But I already know the answer to that…

160070 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1567 of 2160 🔗

“….wherever possible…”

“Sorry, it wasn’t possible!”

160001 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 31, #1568 of 2160 🔗

If we are being honest all of the social distancing, gimp masks, curfews, t&t, PCR tests, science are all meaningless as the shower of cunts have had it in for us from day 1

160036 ▶▶ Kate, replying to stefarm, 15, #1569 of 2160 🔗

I agree, the best thing is to realise this and to think of how to protect oneself.

It is just that this coup (or whatever it is), has a horrible fascination.

I cannot relate any longer to people who seem unaware of what is happening.

This must be about so much more than profiteering on a vaccine.

I just wish I could wake up in normality again. (But was it normal?)

The horrors of illegal violence and war were just visited on other countries, so we could remain unaware of them.
This is like a continuing colour revolution and a political coup, trashing our lives.

160041 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Kate, 7, #1570 of 2160 🔗

Correct. Ask anyone in certain Middle Eastern countries how their everyday lives have been for the last few decades.

160043 ▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Richard O, 2, #1571 of 2160 🔗


160045 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Kate, 7, #1572 of 2160 🔗

Yep and if I hear any whinging or complaining from these people about how their life has changed and they want it back they can fuck off.

It’s a coup alright

160009 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 46, #1573 of 2160 🔗

Very pleased to see more students/young people coming to this page.

Welcome, and do make yourselves comfortable. We must mobilise and take back our future before it’s too late.

160040 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Poppy, 6, #1574 of 2160 🔗

And we will do all we can to help you.

160015 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 2, #1575 of 2160 🔗

Anyone got any historical graphs for Hospital and ICU admissions, and All Cause Deaths for this time of year? I would expect there to be an increase in all of these with children going back to school in September with colds and other illnesses starting to spread after the summer.

160069 ▶▶ Cruella, replying to JohnB, 1, #1576 of 2160 🔗

What is the correlation between coughs and colds and ITU or hospital admissions? What illnesses related to children induce either?

160038 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 19, #1577 of 2160 🔗

Fuck it, every zombie is fair game now, I will cease to be polite and call them out for their weak spineless cowardice

160055 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to stefarm, 9, #1578 of 2160 🔗

I’ve not been polite to anyone wearing a mask since day one. This will change as social conditions deteriorate. Impolite can turn into rude. Rude can turn into angry. Angry can turn into threatening. Threatening can turn into violent.

160075 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Richard O, 5, #1579 of 2160 🔗

Why are you encouraging violence on a sceptics site? Violence has nothing to do with scepticism.

160093 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to OKUK, 8, #1580 of 2160 🔗

I’m not encouraging it at all. Never thrown a punch in my life. I am merely stating that as the fabric of society disintegrates, things will escalate out of control beyond the point where people are capable of reigning in their base instincts. Civilisation is predicated upon non-violence. Take away the foundations of civilisation (e.g. a functioning economy) and things will get ugly.

160111 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Richard O, 6, #1581 of 2160 🔗

One of the points of masks, surely, is to de-humanise people and make violence more likely. It’s obviously what they want.

160124 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DaveB, replying to Rosie, 1, #1582 of 2160 🔗

Which is exactly why it needs to be resisted.

160247 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to DaveB, 2, #1583 of 2160 🔗

I smile at the mask-a-dolts and, if the opportunity arises, school them on the dangers of the covid political agenda. It is particularly effective now they have people to challenge us at the entrances to Supermarkets.

160482 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Rosie, #1584 of 2160 🔗


160316 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Richard O, #1585 of 2160 🔗

Civilisation is predicated on Maslow’s higher steps. The lowest two, physical needs and sense of personal safety, are currently under serious threat.

160498 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to OKUK, #1586 of 2160 🔗

I’m a tad sceptical about that …

160108 ▶▶▶ DaveB, replying to Richard O, 2, #1587 of 2160 🔗

Well that’s just crazy and counter productive to what we want to achieve. Our struggle needs to be non violent if it’s to succeed.

I sat as far away as you can be from someone in a four seat block on the train today. As the train emptied, the person adjacent was becoming more agitated, eventually asking me if I had a mask. I said I was exempt, but offered to move to a seat further away from him, which he accepted. No need to be confrontational.

On a separate note, he was an Irish fella. I’ve been to Trafalgar Square for a couple of Saturdays and met a lot of fellow Welshmen/women there, (and a rather beautiful blue eyed Lithuanian lady, but that’s another story) but not a single Scot or Irish person. Is anyone noticing this demographic split?

160115 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to DaveB, 5, #1588 of 2160 🔗

Well noted, see my reply to OKUK below who called me out on this point. My intention was not to be inflammatory but to make a strong point. It’s been another emotional rollercoaster today.

160135 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to DaveB, 7, #1589 of 2160 🔗

He should have moved if he was bothered. And he has no right to ask you about your lack of mask. This does not need to involve confrontation but, remember, we are not in the wrong here and I feel we should be both firm and polite to people like your Irish friend. We were only challenged at the very beginning of all this (in a shop) and I did the above and the person just sloped off! MW

160186 ▶▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to DaveB, 4, #1590 of 2160 🔗

I’m in Glasgow and if I could get to London easily I would. The reality is that from my house to Trafalgar Square is a 6 hour journey. It would also mean an over night hotel stay plus train fares. Not cheap I’m afraid. I do appreciate the efforts of those who attend and fight our corner though.

160318 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to DaveB, 1, #1591 of 2160 🔗

There’s an intrepid bunch from Dundee who have been to every London demo.

I was wondering why the guy on the train didn’t just move himself.

160502 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to DaveB, 1, #1592 of 2160 🔗

There were some dudes wearing kilts there on Saturday. One hopes they were Scots …

160505 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to DaveB, #1593 of 2160 🔗

I said I was exempt, but offered to move to a seat further away from him, which he accepted. No need to be confrontational.

You’ll understand, I’m sure, that many of us feel there is no need to offer to move

160114 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to stefarm, 3, #1594 of 2160 🔗

I take any opportunity to state my case, but taking the attitude that the person already agrees with me already. It’s surprisingly effective. I say it stoutly, not argumentatively.

160239 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to stefarm, 2, #1595 of 2160 🔗

I’ll continue to be polite, because I feel it’s a better persuasion tactic.

160048 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 41, #1596 of 2160 🔗