Last updated2020-10-01T07:17:31



160723 mrjoeaverage, replying to mrjoeaverage, 127, #1 of 2057 🔗

I am extremely bored with the media questions at press conferences! Whatever happened to investigative journalism?

Dear reporters and journalists, may I suggest the following please for the next press conference:

Please can you provide evidence that the lockdown worked, and explain why you feel future ones will work, in spite of the fact Whitty stated we peaked before the first one?

Where is the proof even that social distancing works? We are expected to accept this as a given, but why?

Please explain the false positive rate in laymen terms to the general public?

What would stop you from introducing another lockdown, and then during lockdown, reducing the cycle threshold of the PCR test, then claiming victory? Will you report on the exact date these changes are made to reporting standards?

Why do you choose the wrong statistics about Sweden? Rather than comparing to neighbouring countries, and bleating on about deaths per capita, how do you explain their excess deaths being similar to that of their last 20 years?

Please explain in laymen terms why masks work, when hundreds of years of research say the opposite? And as a secondary question on this point, please explain why social distancing and masks work, when flu levels are consistent with previous years? Should flu not be at record low levels?

When you say you are following the science, I take it this means following Whitty and Vallance. Please can you reassure the public that there is no conflict of interest with regards the fact the former is on the executive board of the WHO, and the latter has a £600k shareholding in GSK?

Why is it feasible that vaccines should be made mandatory when only 300 healthy people under 60 have died in England?

Please can you separate the hospitalisations between those who arrived with coronavirus symptoms, and those who did not?

Would you not take this suggestion as the best way out of this mess: prepare statistics to show weekly hospitalisations for all causes, over the last 20 years, adjusted for population changes. Then, compare this regularly to hospitalisations now. Thus, we have a simple way of tracking any issues, and can do away with a flawed test. Why would this not work?

Thank you and good night.

160760 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to mrjoeaverage, 26, #2 of 2057 🔗

Someone pointed out yesterday that lockdowns in Switzerland were devolved to the Cantons, some hard, some soft, same outcomes.

160775 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to karenovirus, 11, #3 of 2057 🔗

It’s the same across the US. A lot of variables however. Population density appears a certain factor.

160817 ▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 47, #4 of 2057 🔗

In Florida the governor just dropped all restrictions on businesses. He said “Businesses have a right to carry on” or similar. Much more enlightened than in Trotskyite Britain where business appears to be subservient to bedwetting.

161602 ▶▶▶▶▶ petgor, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #5 of 2057 🔗

I believe that as soon as it was ann the MSM reported a sudden increase in Covid infections. If common sense suddenly reared its head over here then doubt MSM would react in exactly the same way.

162549 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #6 of 2057 🔗

The main factor is Democrat or Republican.

160764 ▶▶ anon, replying to mrjoeaverage, 6, #7 of 2057 🔗


160987 ▶▶ chaos, replying to mrjoeaverage, 28, #8 of 2057 🔗

True investigative journalism is now on youtube and bitchute etc. Though youtube is gradually ridding itself of those.. some light in the tunnel on spiked, spectator, and telegraph.. and here of course.. though Toby still refuses to believe that the WEF, Gates et al have hijacked this cabinet. They have.

162543 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to chaos, 6, #9 of 2057 🔗

How does he explain Boris quoting Bill G in a number of speeches, replying to Bill’s tweets and committing large sums of UK money to the WHO?

162572 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Carrie, 3, #10 of 2057 🔗

He doesn’t explain those things. Possibly Toby’s reluctance in these delicate matters might possibly be tactical.

162566 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to chaos, 4, #11 of 2057 🔗

The hijacking is abundantly clear to all who look for it. Is Toby is applying the Nelson touch, which calms the waters somewhat? The great thing about this site though, is that censorship is only noticeable by it’s apparent absence.

161241 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to mrjoeaverage, 14, #12 of 2057 🔗

The questions would be all pre approved.BBC,ITV,SKY are all fully on board with the Government agenda.They are allowed to criticise the handling of the crisis,not the reasoning being the lockdown policy

161516 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 9, #13 of 2057 🔗

That was the way in the later decades of the Soviet Union, Citizens were permitted to criticize failed individuals or policies but not the system itself or the party big knobs.

161451 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to mrjoeaverage, 3, #14 of 2057 🔗

Yep. Piss poor.

I’d like a questioning reporter to do a slow hand clap or wiggle their finger between their lips like a child. It’s all Pfeffel deserves.

161645 ▶▶ ShirleyMac, replying to mrjoeaverage, 9, #15 of 2057 🔗

I’d like someone to ask how many people per week are currently dying from “ordinary” seasonal flu and non-COVID related pneumonia. Last time I looked (ONS) it was nine times the death toll from coronavirus.

162580 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to ShirleyMac, 2, #16 of 2057 🔗

Asking awkward questions is not going to enhance your career prospects, here at the BBC.

161687 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to mrjoeaverage, 2, #17 of 2057 🔗

Agreed, but I don’t think that any journalist prepared to answer these questions would be allowed near any of these propaganda affairs. Which raises the question: how is a challenge organised? Surely Toby must have some sort of approach available given his strong connections to many Government figures?

162612 ▶▶ Linda B, replying to mrjoeaverage, 2, #18 of 2057 🔗

Fantastic — You are absolutely right – I cannot watch the news anymore because no one asks any of these questions……. What on earth has happened to investigative journalism — especially anyone connected with the BBC —

160725 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 79, #19 of 2057 🔗

Yay, just got turned away by Toby Carvery for only having an old fashioned phone. 😱

160747 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to karenovirus, 23, #20 of 2057 🔗

Land of the free!!!!

160859 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Fingerache Philip., 26, #21 of 2057 🔗

But all is well in the Posh Cafe where they have been happy to accept my stupid phone number.
No fear of getting infected. With thirty or so tables I am their only customer.

161127 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to karenovirus, 10, #22 of 2057 🔗

My friend praised the staff in Toast how they searched through the store room for an item she wanted.
I pointed out they need the sale to keep their jobs/the physical shop open.
(My friend went into the shop as the item was sold out online)
People trying to keep their business open and save some jobs will be more lax about the “rules”.

161163 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to karenovirus, 5, #23 of 2057 🔗

Chits at ‘spoons, quite full.

161535 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 4, #24 of 2057 🔗

My large Spoons got stroppy about QR code two weeks ago after expecting me to queue in sheep pens. Left unfed of course.

162609 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to karenovirus, 5, #25 of 2057 🔗

I tried out the new pub procedures last Thursday evening. Arrived at the pub at 8.30 pm and was loudly admonished for baring my face. I replied that I was exempt and took a seat with the people I normally sit with.

The barmaid was clearly unhappy, but brought my drink, while muttering sulkily behind her mask. The landlady came down the stairs at 8.55 and she brazenly and very stupidly called last orders at exactly nine o’clock. I resolved, there and then, to stay out of pubs, as long as this madness goes on. I realise that, thanks to the very corrupt UK government, this may well be forever.

160753 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to karenovirus, 16, #26 of 2057 🔗

go back next week and the next. After a while the penny will drop when their custom does. I had a similar thing before the rule of six I found pubs that serve food were more interested in a party of ten rather than a single drinker like myself.

160780 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to crimsonpirate, 35, #27 of 2057 🔗

I do think economic leverage is our primary (possibly our only weapon). If we refuse to play their games and businesses suffer then the businesses and their representative groups will also turn on the Government. Perhaps it’s not fair on some businesses, but what else can we do?

160969 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Andrew Fish, 32, #28 of 2057 🔗

As I keep saying, the power is in our wallet and feet, if enough people refuse to go along with this nonsense they will either cave in or go bust.

162767 ▶▶▶▶▶ chaos, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #29 of 2057 🔗

The problem with that is the government seem prepared to let a lot of businesses go to the wall. In fact, entertainment doesn’t seem to be a feature of the new normal.

160873 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to crimsonpirate, 19, #30 of 2057 🔗

When I have a spare afternoon I’ll visit the 6 local Weatherspoons just to get turned away (thick skinned me).
Dunno if Tim Martin keeps tabs on these things.

161172 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to karenovirus, 7, #31 of 2057 🔗

Local ‘spoons has chits and pencils and a box to post the chits into, or just a list of names and numbers when the chits run out.

161242 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 7, #32 of 2057 🔗

The list is illegal because it’s on public view so breaks data protection laws.
The chits are best – for loads of good reasons.

161531 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 2, #33 of 2057 🔗

First time I went to a Spoons post lockdown they just had chits so I put it in the ‘ballot box’ blank.

160757 ▶▶ Schrodinger, replying to karenovirus, 26, #34 of 2057 🔗

I have no idea if this is genuine but someone has apparently developed an app that mimics the NHS one but does not send any data anywhere. (Still won’t work on your old phone though!)


160762 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Schrodinger, 5, #35 of 2057 🔗

that’s cheating!

160766 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to crimsonpirate, 31, #36 of 2057 🔗

Well, they started it.

160794 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Schrodinger, 10, #37 of 2057 🔗

looks like it .. All it does is mimic the the screen that a phone will show when you correctly scan in. So you load the app.. to your phone. When you go out, you open the app, type in the name of the restaurant etc, and wave your phone at the QR to give the impression you are scanning. Then you can show the phone to staff and it looks like you have correctly scanned
Apparently app for older Androids and for iphones is coming

160830 ▶▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to mjr, 2, #38 of 2057 🔗

Sorry, bit of a thick question but doesn’t the pub’s qr reader thing bleep to say successful scan ? I haven’t been anywhere yet that needs a code so genuine question.

160849 ▶▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Bumble, 2, #39 of 2057 🔗

It’s just a bit of paper. Open question for me is getting the right name

160907 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to leggy, 11, #40 of 2057 🔗

yes – i went to my barbers and he has a QR code printed on a piece of paper on the wall.. Although he is sceptic and isnt bothered about people scanning.
And that might be the attitude of a lot of places. If you pretend to scan then thats fine by me. and they wont check details. Like most of this farce people will just go through the motions

161305 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to mjr, 7, #41 of 2057 🔗

Returned from holiday to Manchester Airport on Monday. Had to download the Governments form with QR code. Huge queues in passport control, (no scanners!) as people had to show the form to a Border Control Officer!

161422 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to mjr, 7, #42 of 2057 🔗

I do it all the time, same as I pretend to use hand sanitizer and wash my hands unless my hands are dirty of course: see: COMMON SENSE.

161097 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to leggy, 7, #43 of 2057 🔗

Just been to the garden centre so have seen the bit of paper. I understand now ! You don’t need to type a name in the fake app. You just press start and it comes up with the ‘signed in’ page with correct time. I love it.

161153 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Willow, replying to Bumble, 2, #44 of 2057 🔗

That won’t work if they ask to see the check in screen because the genuine check in screen displays the venue name.

161503 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to Willow, 1, #45 of 2057 🔗

Oops, just seen the bit on the fake app where you type the venue name. Please excuse me. I’m not a technophobe, just don’t like my phone to play too active a role in my life !

162205 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ mrchriz, replying to Bumble, 2, #46 of 2057 🔗

I’ve been checking the code of the official app and the QR code does contain the venue name so it should be quite possible to create an app that still scans the QR code and shows the correct venue code name.

160878 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to mjr, 3, #47 of 2057 🔗

They will make using them illegal like those gizmos that warn of live speed traps ahead, sorry Road Safety Partnerships.

161168 ▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to karenovirus, 9, #48 of 2057 🔗

But it’s not a law that you have have the app, simply businesses being overzealous by insisting on it. Since the spoof app is therefore not allowing to you subvert a law, there are no grounds to ban it.

162156 ▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to karenovirus, 1, #49 of 2057 🔗

Those aren’t illegal in this country. They have always been in France though.

160811 ▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Schrodinger, 5, #50 of 2057 🔗

It’s genuine, I’ve checked the code 🙂

161147 ▶▶▶▶ Willow, replying to Tee Ell, 2, #51 of 2057 🔗

Thanks Tee, the more people that do, the better 👍

161141 ▶▶▶ Willow, replying to Schrodinger, 4, #52 of 2057 🔗

Yep, that’s my baby 😊

I don’t think Toby is keen to have it on here though so by all means join the Telegram group to chat about it.

161477 ▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Willow, 3, #53 of 2057 🔗

Massive respect for creating this, great idea. Oh, just to mention (sorry for pedantry but it will increase trust I reckon) there’s a typo on the site appearence/appearance. Thanks again!

161787 ▶▶▶▶▶ Willow, replying to Tee Ell, 1, #54 of 2057 🔗

Thanks Tee, I’ll fix it

162870 ▶▶▶ Jane Harry, replying to Schrodinger, #55 of 2057 🔗

I think this is the way to go: from passive resistance to active sabotage

160906 ▶▶ Cruella, replying to karenovirus, 1, #56 of 2057 🔗

They can’t do that.

160910 ▶▶▶ wayno, replying to Cruella, 1, #57 of 2057 🔗

nope just posted that above

160908 ▶▶ wayno, replying to karenovirus, 8, #58 of 2057 🔗

After a few post on here this morning about being refused entry i checked the gov website:

and it states “In England, you do not have to request details from people who check in with the official NHS QR poster, and venues should not ask them to do both. Venues must not make the specific use of the NHS QR code a precondition of entry (as the individual has the right to choose to provide their contact details if they prefer). Should someone choose to check in with the official NHS QR poster, a venue should check their phone screen to ensure they have successfully checked in.”

161083 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to wayno, 5, #59 of 2057 🔗

A large firm like Toby Carvery will be aware of that, probably the staff being lazy. Well it’s their jobs still on the line.

161633 ▶▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to karenovirus, 3, #60 of 2057 🔗

I would complain to head office .You will probably get a free roast .

162109 ▶▶▶▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to wat tyler, 3, #61 of 2057 🔗

And if you’re really lucky… indigestion!

162265 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to TheOriginalBlackPudding, 2, #62 of 2057 🔗

You don’t need to be that lucky.

161255 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to wayno, 2, #63 of 2057 🔗

Note, it also says that if someone refuses to provide their contact details, the venue should refuse entry.
(I’m pretty sure it’s should nowadays, not just can .)

160918 ▶▶ Jakehadlee, replying to karenovirus, 22, #64 of 2057 🔗

Perhaps we should make a list of worst offending businesses so we all know who to boycott when this crap is over

160964 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Jakehadlee, 14, #65 of 2057 🔗

Indeed and it should be spread far and wide.

They should also be reminded that the following excuses will not wash:

1) I didn’t know
2) I was only following orders (or variations thereof)

161260 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #66 of 2057 🔗

NB I didn’t know also applies to us.
Ignorance is no legal excuse for breaking the law.

161140 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to karenovirus, 5, #67 of 2057 🔗

Yesterday the announcement was “already 14 Mill downloaded the APP”.
Only 14 mill. Out of 67Mill? Consider how many are children, live in some kind of care, , that leaves 40mill possible adults? That means uptake is very low.

161344 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Silke David, 2, #68 of 2057 🔗

I heard on some podcast (Spiked?) that there are 72 million smart phones in UK

162553 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bella, 2, #69 of 2057 🔗

Some people will own more than one, if they have a work phone..

162331 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Silke David, 6, #70 of 2057 🔗

In Germany, 14 million obedient bedwetters downloaded the app on day 1.
Three months later we’re at 16 million, and it has officially been branded completely useless.

161233 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to karenovirus, 4, #71 of 2057 🔗

Legally they have to provide more primitive means of T&T.

161549 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #72 of 2057 🔗

In the same way that they usually have to accept cash as legal tender.

161431 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to karenovirus, 5, #73 of 2057 🔗

Did they even give you the option of providing (false) details with good old fashioned pen and paper? I seriously think that some of these companies actually want to go out of business.

161550 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 3, #74 of 2057 🔗

No absolutely not, it was QR code or no brekky, I didn’t argue just said ‘fine’ and left.

161641 ▶▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to karenovirus, 4, #75 of 2057 🔗

20 % of people don’t have a smart phone so by law they should offer alternatives .

162269 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to wat tyler, 4, #76 of 2057 🔗

The correct alternative is to not bother with them.

162470 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Rowan, 2, #77 of 2057 🔗

I don’t disagree as i’m personally boycotting all pubs and restaurants but i’m just stating a fact.

162772 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to wat tyler, 1, #78 of 2057 🔗

Their main lunchtime trade is the genteel elderly, exactly the demographic least likely to have a smartphone.

162556 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to karenovirus, 3, #79 of 2057 🔗

Would be interesting to find out if they are so negative to a very elderly person, or someone disabled..

161457 ▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to karenovirus, 7, #80 of 2057 🔗

Sod ’em. They don’t deserve your business. Did you tell them that they could possibly be discriminating against you, for which they could be fined? I’ve only got a dumb phone as have many, many others, and even if you do have a smart phone it has to be a later one to download the crap app. So many businesses will soon be out of business if they don’t grasp what is happening.

161565 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to HelenaHancart, 3, #81 of 2057 🔗

If I’d known what Wayno posted above about the government saying they should accept ordinary self ID I might have done.
He was a junior manager which is fine but his lilac mask matched his lilac waistcoat 🤮 , perhaps needing taken down a peg but I don’t want to eat anywhere that does not welcome me with open arms.

162152 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to karenovirus, 2, #82 of 2057 🔗

They did you a favour.

162544 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to karenovirus, 4, #83 of 2057 🔗

Out of interest, what did they actually say? Tell you to upgrade your phone? Were they polite or aggressive?

162775 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Carrie, 1, #84 of 2057 🔗

Officious Carrie.
I had the breakfast tickbox menu in my hand and as he came out from ‘staff only’ door I asked if I was supposed to fill it in.
No hello or good morning, “Have you scanned th QR code ?”
‘No, I only have an old phone, (I lied), you can have the number.’
“No code no service”.

I don’t even think he said sorry but it was his matching lilac mask and waistcoat that really put me off.

160731 stewart, replying to stewart, 50, #85 of 2057 🔗

Why won’t the government just let our immune systems deal with this?

Our immune system is the best, in fact only, weapon for “defeating” this virus. So why doesn’t the government just let our bodies get on with it and stop destroying society?

Valance and Whitty think that for every 50,000 who get infected 200 will die.
That means that for every 1 million people infected, 4,000 would die.
i.e. they think the infection fatality rate (IFR) is 0.4%.

Herd Immunity
If you believe that IFR, then if everyone in the UK (66m people) caught the virus, around 260,000 would die.
But that wouldn’t happen because the virus would burn out before that. But how much before?
That is the big unknown: when would we get to herd immunity?
Some people believe it’s 20% because they think we have a lot of pre-existing immunity. Some people like Ferguson think we don’t have any natural immunity and believe 80% of the population need to get ill before the virus burns out.
If you believe it’s 20% then that means the virus burns out after 52,000 people die (260,000 x 20%) – i.e. about 10,000 to go.
If you believe Ferguson, then it would be over 200,000 people – i.e. 160,000 to go.
So it’s somewhere between 10,000 and 160,000 to go, assuming the IFR is 0.4%.

Vaccine vs Shielding the vulnerable.
If the government is intent on “managing” the epidemic, as it clearly is, it has 2 options.

Option 1: affect the IFR by shielding the vulnerable and hope that herd immunity is reached sooner rather than later and mostly by spreading in younger, fitter people.
Option 2: suppress as much as you can until a vaccine is produced that provides the herd immunity without any deaths (supposedly).

They started with option 1 and switched to option 2.

They did that based on Ferguson’s assumptions of 0.8% IFR and 80% to reach herd immunity. (66 million x 80% x 0.8 = 422,000 deaths). The evidence now shows those two assumptions were very wrong.

They are clinging on their policy on the premise that we don’t really know when herd immunity is reached. But if it is anywhere near 20% as many suspect, then their measures will have been a complete disaster and caused all the economic and social destruction for nothing. Our immune systems will have done all the work. As they generally do.

160765 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to stewart, 12, #86 of 2057 🔗

Good summary. Though I would say they are a little more informed on the the herd immunity debate than we pretend. Yes there are those who’ve analysed places such as New York, Japan, Sweden and other places to suggest herd immunity has been reached, and it seems promising. They are bound to be looking at that. But ultimately this all now about politics.

To give them some degree of sympathy, they make policy that impacts millions and so they can’t just go all in on a particular position I would say because they would be out on their ear well before they got to the point where proof was on the table.

If they go for herd immunity right now, they’d probably not sustain it against the ill informed public opinion. Its still a toxic word for the idiotic press.

While Vallance had his scientist hat on in March, its clear the public just can’t understand or are scared by that perspective. So CMOs options are reduced by the political atmosphere.

161148 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 8, #87 of 2057 🔗

Because it is not about health, but about the economy.
I now wish they would just admit that, get on with it.

162289 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 6, #88 of 2057 🔗

Ultimately it’s all about the vaccines and Bill Gates, who is about using vaccines as a means of massively reducing the global population. The utterly corrupt government is doing all it can to keep the potential demand for the unlicensed and liability free vaccines as high as possible.

160796 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to stewart, 12, #89 of 2057 🔗

Only if the vulnerable want to be shielded, they still have capacity to make their own decisions under the 2005 act, which hasn’t been overturned by the current legislation as far as I’m aware.

160897 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to stewart, 20, #90 of 2057 🔗

Immune System
Has No
Side Effects

Don’t Let
Bill Gates
Kill you

162302 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to PastImperfect, 6, #91 of 2057 🔗

Bill Gates, together with Boris Johnson, Matt Hancock, Chris Whitty and Patrick Vallance are all out to kill us. We are in very deep trouble and resistance is vital.

162562 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Rowan, 2, #92 of 2057 🔗

Can we not lobby MPs about Bill G being so involved and also UK money being given to the WHO with no mandate from the UK population?

They may be thinking they will get away with it, because no one has noticed, or is bothered…

162776 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Carrie, #93 of 2057 🔗

They probably think they have a pass to the Brave New Normal.

161161 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to stewart, 1, #94 of 2057 🔗

Thanks, very clear. What is their 0.4% IFR figure based on, I though it was reckoned to be more like 0.2%?

161283 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to stewart, 4, #95 of 2057 🔗

Good post!
I’m sure Tweedledum and Tweedledee know perfectly well how immune systems function, which is why they advised going for herd immunity in the first place.

Seems a lot of money and personal threats have been involved since.
And let’s not forget Macron’s blackmailing de Piffle into locking down.

160732 The Spingler, replying to The Spingler, 14, #96 of 2057 🔗

Radio 4 Today show are schizophrenic this morning. One report that the rate of virus spread is slowing. Another report on Witless and Unbalanced and BobaJob’s press con yesterday claiming the apocalypse is here. Heads will start exploding all over Broadcasting House in the confusion. Happy days.

160894 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to The Spingler, 5, #97 of 2057 🔗

Same yesterday, More Or Less explained why ‘record cases’might not mean more deaths followed by Womans Hour describing it as ‘a new Peak for the virus’.

161156 ▶▶ Athanasius, replying to The Spingler, 5, #98 of 2057 🔗

Nono, they need both to be true simultaneously. It’s out of control, so we need more measures. But the measures are working, so that’s why it will be good to have more of them.

161296 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to The Spingler, 1, #99 of 2057 🔗

BBC, offering a balance of opinion for once?

161580 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cheezilla, #100 of 2057 🔗

Trying to cover their arses more like.

161373 ▶▶ zubin, replying to The Spingler, 1, #101 of 2057 🔗

Thankyou for giving me a huge laugh x

160741 CGL, replying to CGL, 39, #102 of 2057 🔗

Daughters school has turned off the water for the pupils because of risk of cross contamination. The only water available has to be paid for. I was under the impression that access to water was a human right. Pubs have to provide drinking water for free if asked dont they? Does anyone know if I have anything legal to hold against them?

160816 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to CGL, 16, #103 of 2057 🔗

Yeah I thought that was illegal.

I would be fuming, and I’d be letting the staff know how angry I am and how scientifically inept they are.

160853 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Tee Ell, 12, #104 of 2057 🔗

Done that – I told the head he was despicable and forwarded a post that said what they are doing is child abuse. No comment was the firm reply. Arseholes.

160866 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to CGL, 15, #105 of 2057 🔗

Am sure that is illegal. Restaurants are not allowed to charge for tap water and must provide it if asked for.
Ask Francis Hoar and contact Us For Them…

160901 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to CGL, 8, #106 of 2057 🔗

Illegal under health & safety for staff, almost certainly under Disability Legislation.

160963 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to CGL, 17, #107 of 2057 🔗

If the water goes off in a school you need to be sent home. It’s basic hygiene standards

161090 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to mhcp, 2, #108 of 2057 🔗

Sorry it’s the taps where they would normally fill up their water bottles

160976 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to CGL, 14, #109 of 2057 🔗

I think that’s illegal at the bare minimum under Disability Discrimination and H&S legislation. Not to mention blatant profiteering.

Perhaps ask for their risk assessment and also the contact details of someone in the school who should be addressed should your daughter or anyone in school suffer due to water deprivation.

160979 ▶▶ peter, replying to CGL, 2, #110 of 2057 🔗

Probably best the kids ain’t drinking the school tap water, it’s just pish recycled a trillion times.

161120 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to peter, #111 of 2057 🔗

Do they still have the drinking fountains I remember from the 60s?

161180 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to karenovirus, 2, #112 of 2057 🔗

I’m not sure tbh – i dont think so. Am going to get all my ducks in a row before contacting them.

161308 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to karenovirus, 1, #113 of 2057 🔗

Haven’t drinking fountains been banned since the mockdown started?

161131 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to CGL, 7, #114 of 2057 🔗

So how are they washing their hands the required 1000000 times per day?

161133 ▶▶▶ Liam, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #115 of 2057 🔗

There you go again with reason and logic.

161191 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #116 of 2057 🔗

Sorry – wasnt clear – it’s the drinking water taps they normally fill bottles from. The loos flush etc.

161590 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to A. Contrarian, #117 of 2057 🔗

Very excellent point.
I won’t trouble you with what we small lads used the drinking fountains for but it wasn’t for washing hands 🙄

161289 ▶▶ Mel, replying to CGL, 14, #118 of 2057 🔗

Same at my stepdaughters secondary school. My son’s primary school allow them to bring in water from home. Her’s insist pupils buy water from the canteen – and wear a mask to stand in line to buy it.

The use of masks was not mandatory in the first week back, but was made mandatory afterwards because….the staff requested it. Ill informed twats.

My son’s school sent home a letter yesterday asking what was successful and unsuccessful about home schooling, in case it needs to resume again because of “the escalating pandemic”. What you can do, Headteacher, to protect childrens’ education at this time, is lobby our local MP and ask her to stop supporting this ridiculous regime that puts a theoretic extension to the life of an 80+ year old ahead of educating the young.

I have 2 friends who’s 3 year olds have been sent home from nursery to self isolate for 2 weeks because of “a positive test”. Them and all of their class mates (they are from 2 different nurseries).

It’s disgusting, you couldn’t make it up!

161306 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mel, 6, #119 of 2057 🔗

3 year-olds FFS!
And the parents who now have to stay home and look after them will no doubt have to get tested, and their contacts – and so the farce goes on!

161587 ▶▶▶▶ Mel, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #120 of 2057 🔗

The parents have been advised they dont have to isolate unless they get symptoms, and then they should isolate. But the kids must isolate, because they’ve been EXPOSED to a (false?) positive test. Old people are vulnerable to this, we must do something. What can we do? I know, lets lock up the kids!

Its bullshit of the highest order. With no right of appeal. Our local MP so far declines to respond to anything I’ve sent her. It seems teachers are being disproportionately tested – which probably accounts for the alleged spread in educational settings.

161323 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Mel, 9, #121 of 2057 🔗

They shouldn’t have to buy water. Contact your local water company. What an absolute disgrace this is.
How many young children will have to fall ill before this criminal nonsense is stopped?

162567 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mel, 2, #122 of 2057 🔗

That letter re home schooling is interesting in the light of other posts today saying doctors have had a head-up that schools will be closed in November and December – have schools been told the same?

161317 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to CGL, 11, #123 of 2057 🔗

What about the risks of dehydration? A potential threat to health and general well being?

Ask the local water company in your area .

Children should never be denied access to clean drinking water, which should be free of charge.

This is child abuse; it’s disgraceful.

161393 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to wendyk, 1, #124 of 2057 🔗

And, to Mel and CGL; I’m still fuming about this ,despite not having children: contact the NSPCC and Citizens’ Advice as well as your local water companies.


See also the link for the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health; may the force be with you both.

161575 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to wendyk, 7, #125 of 2057 🔗

Pets and farm animals are legally entitled to clean, fresh drinking water at all times.

161868 ▶▶ Che Strazio, replying to CGL, 3, #126 of 2057 🔗

Write in to Talkradio? Julia Hartley Brewers has been brilliant in questioning ministers.

162164 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to CGL, #127 of 2057 🔗

AFAIK it’s not true for pubs & restaurants, but it is true for schools.

160743 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 6, #128 of 2057 🔗

In our local rag (Kidderminster shuttle) serving Wyre Forrest,Worcestershire.
The free press?,?,?,?

160783 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Fingerache Philip., 14, #129 of 2057 🔗

Kidderminster Shuttle owned by Newsquest Media Group and an offshoot of the Worcester News which contains 2 embedded BBC reporters (paid by BBC) . So local press is just following BBC instructions
So it is not free press.
All local press is not independent. It is BBC in disguise

160914 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to mjr, 4, #130 of 2057 🔗

Just as bad as regional Local Live, all part of mirror group news, full of rubbish about everything, not just covid/lockdown.

160788 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #131 of 2057 🔗

May be ave a quick serach for BBC local democracy reporters. Local rags up and down the land have bbc paid staff working in them. I don’t proposed they wrote the individual headline, though they may have. The local press has been exceptionally poor throughout. Possibly the government buying of advertising to prop up the newspaper business has an effect but it seems a much more structured deceit than that, something D notice-like that blanket commands the press to publish such junk.

161312 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 2, #132 of 2057 🔗

Much of the local junk comes from the same source, with a sprinkling of locally relevant stories.

160833 ▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #133 of 2057 🔗

A virus spread by humans…. wow

161579 ▶▶ annie, replying to Fingerache Philip., 6, #134 of 2057 🔗


160744 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 15, #135 of 2057 🔗

Have any of the so called “rebels”, who were prepared to vote for the Brady amendment, made any comments about the renewal of the Coronavirus Act which was passed yesterday? I would be interested to hear why they didn’t vote against it.

160774 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Margaret, 5, #136 of 2057 🔗

I don’t think they will go public with what is undoubtedly a multifaceted ‘deal’. Boris used up a lot of political capital yesterday to save face in public, but there were conditions attached. Interesting interlude in HoC yesterday when Graham Brady gave way for Chris Bryant, who wanted to know exactly what had been agreed. No direct answer from Brady, but it seemed clear there was something.

160778 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #137 of 2057 🔗

Boris should invite some of the sceptics closer to the fire now. He needs to start hedging his bets

160797 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #138 of 2057 🔗

This is an interesting political intervention – from someone close to Cummings and Gove:


161340 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #139 of 2057 🔗

The photo is perfect.
Hands: De Piffle waving his hands about
Face: grimacing
Space: the gaping gap between his words and the Truth.

160745 crimsonpirate, replying to crimsonpirate, 2, #140 of 2057 🔗

right on cue, the wind changes. The Coronavirus act is passed and a sliver of good news. Expect more this week.

160793 ▶▶ kf99, replying to crimsonpirate, 5, #141 of 2057 🔗

Love the way they say the rule of six “May be having an impact”. So it may, or it may not? We don’t know. Just like face coverings, but they then say that’s one of the things we have to keep doing.

Doesn’t feel like a very “scientific” approach.

160802 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kf99, 4, #142 of 2057 🔗

Remember, this is from the makers of “In certain circumstances , masks might have a small benefit…” They’ve since taken out ‘small’ by the way.

160803 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to kf99, 2, #143 of 2057 🔗

It’s not, because they introduced various other restrictions in some cities/regions after a week or so, so impossible to conclude anything about any single measure.

160804 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to kf99, 1, #144 of 2057 🔗

less people in pubs/restaurants overall means less risk. There again it also means less profit.

161360 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to crimsonpirate, 2, #145 of 2057 🔗

Risk of what and to whom?

160880 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to kf99, 1, #146 of 2057 🔗

The Imperial survey, no doubt predicated on Ferguson’s model, is for the first week in September before the rule of six kicked in. Do they think we won’t notice these things?

161365 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Will, 1, #147 of 2057 🔗

Their fingers are crossed – probably permanently considering their perpetual mendacity.

160904 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to kf99, 2, #148 of 2057 🔗

It’s a logical fallacy. And so many of these measures fall into that category.

160746 Stuart Wright, 23, #149 of 2057 🔗

The letter to J. Rees-Mogg could’ve been infinitely more succinct- “In view of the breathtaking amount of unwarranted illiberal legislation.Stupefying incompetence, complete loss of reason & untold economic damage. Care to impart what the real,hidden agenda of H.M. Government really is?

160749 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 45, #150 of 2057 🔗

Quick update from the doctors lunch room.
” So are you all downloading the track and trace app?”
The unaminous reply was NO WAY … even from the lockdown luvvies.!
There is hope …

I do not believe for one minute that 10 million people have downloaded the app

160755 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Peter Thompson, 27, #151 of 2057 🔗

It means they effectively won’t be able to go out to eat.

I have resigned myself to this. Two pals said let’s go for a curry and I said it’s too awful out there with masks, apps, temp checks, servers dressed like surgeons and general fear. I just don’t any of it. Wife said I’m not being pragmatic enough…

160759 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to jhfreedom, 11, #152 of 2057 🔗

perhaps we should actively visit establishments armed with an old phone. If enough of us do it and enough get turned away maybe these places will realise the NHS is mandatory for entry

160827 ▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to crimsonpirate, 8, #153 of 2057 🔗

Or bring your new phone but don’t get it out, and say you’re happy to put a (fake) name in the book. It’s not like they pat you down upon entry.

160857 ▶▶▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Tee Ell, 4, #154 of 2057 🔗

my experience on Sunday was every place used the NHS QR reader rather than their own QR reader and with that no option for hand written details. I guess it’s a case of pushback

161135 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to crimsonpirate, 2, #155 of 2057 🔗

Try ‘spoons, paper chits here still.

161256 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to crimsonpirate, 10, #156 of 2057 🔗

I wander past the QR reader. I won’t use it. If I am challenged, then they get a real name (thanks, compliant wife) and a fake phone number which is so close to the real one that the wife doesn’t notice the difference.

Anyone who challenges that (I have seen some shops with “No Mask, No Service”) I explain that they will have to live without my custom and bid them adieu. They’ll learn.

161371 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to crimsonpirate, 5, #157 of 2057 🔗

The option to give handwritten details is a legal requirement.

160772 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to jhfreedom, 29, #158 of 2057 🔗

Before all this kicked off, we ate out at least once a week. Since the latest muzzle edict came in, we’ve decided to restrict ourselves to a couple of restaurants where we have a longstanding relationship with the owners and don’t have to justify our exemption every time we go in, having takeaways delivered the rest of the time. I certainly won’t be downloading the app and anywhere that expects it as a requirement for entry is welcome to go bust as far as I’m concerned.

160844 ▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Andrew Fish, 17, #159 of 2057 🔗

The farce of wearing a mask on entry and then to go to the loo. The problem with exemptions is the looks and the explaining. It’s bad enough when I do my mission-based shop at Tesco at 6am on a Monday morning without one, but to repeat that experience for my fish and chips and pint of bitter at the pub destroys the experience. It’s less the owners than the other patrons. Invariably compliant and ignorant.

160915 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to jhfreedom, 11, #160 of 2057 🔗

The mask is like the Hitler gruss. Not giving the Johnson salute can be uncomfortable. But vital to maintaining self-respect.

161239 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Ovis, 8, #161 of 2057 🔗

The mask is a boot on the human face, forever (copyright George Orwell).

160861 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Andrew Fish, 25, #162 of 2057 🔗

If it is possible to book tables, maybe a few groups of people should book out a whole restaurant, and then turn up, refuse to scan or give details and then just leave. See how a restaurant copes when an entire sitting (and income from it) suddenly evaporates and they are left with only ‘drop-ins’… Could be particularly effective if done in the evening, when fewer people are likely to just pop in without a booking…

160934 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jakehadlee, replying to Carrie, 3, #163 of 2057 🔗

I like your thinking

160980 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, 4, #164 of 2057 🔗

Or book then don’t turn up. Many people have been doing that since this farce started.

161137 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Carrie, 5, #165 of 2057 🔗

See post from Wayno above. Government advice is that venues should accept usual types of ID if customers cannot or do not use QR code. Means the cancellation is the venues fault not ours so demand refund of any deposit.

161185 ▶▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Carrie, 6, #166 of 2057 🔗

As someone working the hospitality industry this is NOT the thing to do!!!

These people are just trying to keep a business going, remember , it is not just the people in the restaurant, there is a whole supply chain.

With xmas parties cancelled this year, there are no crackers to be made (often in home work), 1000s turkeys going to waste, DJs (who maybe do it as a 2nd income) haven’t worked all year, party decoration suppliers either, a lot of casual staff gaining important income by waiting, washing dishes etc,, taxi drivers, cleaners, It is a long list of people who rely on hospitality to succeed.

161273 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Silke David, 17, #167 of 2057 🔗

There’s an easy answer; if your job relies on hospitality income, don’t make things unpleasant for your customers. EASY! If you want to keep your business going, don’t be a bedwetter to the sceptics.

161912 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Arkansas, replying to RichardJames, 6, #168 of 2057 🔗

If your job relies on hospitality income…

…don’t be inhospitable.

161379 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Silke David, 5, #169 of 2057 🔗

Then the frontline establishments should make sure what the law does and doesn’t require, instead of using their own (often ridiculous) interpretation of the rules.

161717 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Silke David, 5, #170 of 2057 🔗

No one is suggesting it’s used wholesale against the hospitality industry but just on those restaurants treating people appallingly .

161699 ▶▶▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Carrie, 2, #171 of 2057 🔗

Hi Carrie i’m boycotting all unnecessary going out myself but that is a great idea and it’s direct action like that which is a great tactic for any restaurant treating people badly .

160789 ▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to jhfreedom, 3, #172 of 2057 🔗

Fancy dress might work – Doctors and nurses!

160862 ▶▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Steeve, 3, #173 of 2057 🔗

I’m going for the highwayman look

161008 ▶▶▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to crimsonpirate, 2, #174 of 2057 🔗

I am now picturing you as a cross between Jack Sparrow and Adam Ant…

161100 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Strange Days, 2, #175 of 2057 🔗

I just need the tricorn hat

161115 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #176 of 2057 🔗

Stand and deliver, your money or your life!

160818 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to jhfreedom, 23, #177 of 2057 🔗

Just stay away from the chains.Small businesses will go through the motions because it is law but they will be desperate for your custom.

160847 ▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #178 of 2057 🔗

Ok good tip

161672 ▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to jhfreedom, 5, #179 of 2057 🔗

I believe we should all just boycott everything pubs .restaurants and any unnecessary shopping while all these weird rules and masks are in place.It’s the only way to get the message across hit them in their pockets and then they will put pressure on the government for change .

162174 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to wat tyler, 2, #180 of 2057 🔗

Completely agree. It’s the only real power we have. Don’t even bother to tell them why – they aren’t listening to anyone but sooner or later, their accountants will speak.

160758 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Peter Thompson, 4, #181 of 2057 🔗

Peter, what is your view as to why that is the case, and will this extend to attitudes among your colleagues to being in line for the unlicensed vaccine?

160770 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Peter Thompson, 6, #182 of 2057 🔗

And, we had a thought, what happens if you go into a cafe/restaurant/pub, download the app and then look at the menu and decide not to stay? Can you un-download it?

160781 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to kh1485, 3, #183 of 2057 🔗

If they haven’t thought that might happen when they designed this app, then it’s dead on arrival.

161385 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #184 of 2057 🔗

It wouldn’t be the first!

161383 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kh1485, 7, #185 of 2057 🔗

As far as I know, the app doesn’t unscan you till you scan at the next venue.
You could be at home for hours while still officially in the cafe from lunch.

161701 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #186 of 2057 🔗

And subject to quarantine because you were exposed to someone testing positive who called in three hours after you left. Really just a bad idea to download it. The thing to get out there is the risk to your job, etc., if you are subjected to an unwarranted quarantine.

161754 ▶▶▶▶ Willow, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #187 of 2057 🔗

Discussion of alternative option here

160773 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to 2 pence, #189 of 2057 🔗

is that 5 million globally?

160786 ▶▶▶▶ 2 pence, replying to anon, 1, #190 of 2057 🔗

Yes it is, but outside of UK is useless.

162189 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to 2 pence, #191 of 2057 🔗

AFAIK it’s automatically downloaded on the latest iPhones as part of OS patching, so doesn’t even need to be actively downloaded from the app store.

160790 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Peter Thompson, #192 of 2057 🔗


160832 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Peter Thompson, 7, #193 of 2057 🔗

A large number may have downloaded it but it doesn’t mean that they know how to use it or will actually use it. I remember a couple of Christmases ago, an older family member declaring with pride that he had ‘over 80 apps’ on his phone, as if it was a badge of honour. I doubt for one second that he uses any of them. He’s a scaredy cat and complete hypochondriac who barely leaves the house. Why he bothers to have a state of the art ‘mobile’ phone I have no idea. Scrub that, I do know why, he thinks he’s cool and down with the kids. Sad.

160920 ▶▶ Cruella, replying to Peter Thompson, 12, #194 of 2057 🔗

Same in my hospital! We’ve also had ongoing arguments with the various restaurants within the actual campus demanding we track and trace-they don’t seem to understand that we can’t be included and logically must be exempt inside the hospital. If someone has a positive PCR do we all have to go home for 10 days? Duh!

160923 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Peter Thompson, 5, #195 of 2057 🔗

12 million download it = 55 million didn’t?

161704 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to karenovirus, 1, #196 of 2057 🔗

Well, kids don’t have to, do they?

162778 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to ConstantBees, #197 of 2057 🔗

That’ll be the 10 million I left out 😉

160944 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Peter Thompson, 5, #198 of 2057 🔗

I’m suspicious that the figure might be similar to when Facebook first launched video. They celebrated these fantastic viewing stats, until somebody pointed out that most were autoplaying and only partial views.

160955 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Peter Thompson, 11, #199 of 2057 🔗

Funny thing is my wife and colleagues in healthcare aren’t downloading the app because it is sure to ping since they work with “Covid patients” now and then.

Plus on a related fact a lot of them are worried that the flu vaccine this year will include some experimental stuff for a Covid vaccine. A lot are not going to take even the flu shot because they don’t want to be guineapigs.

161004 ▶▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to mhcp, 19, #200 of 2057 🔗

I’m not having the flu shot this year. Firstly, I’m hardly going anywhere because everything you do is such a miserable experience, secondly, everyone is wearing a mask so I can’t catch anything can I?!.

161326 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Mrs issedoff, 1, #201 of 2057 🔗

Same here; similar circumstances

161151 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to mhcp, 1, #202 of 2057 🔗

My thoughts exactly and I’m not remotely medical.

161253 ▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to mhcp, 1, #203 of 2057 🔗

I think that your lasts para is a lot of nonsense. To get the flu vaccine delivered in quantity the decision on it contents will have been made many months ago and production started before the covid thing properly kicked off and any vaccine research on it commenced.

160983 ▶▶ takeme, replying to Peter Thompson, 7, #204 of 2057 🔗

The NHS app is UKgov’s direction of travel for all, I believe. Compliance by the public will be achieved not through laws (e.g. “you must download the app”) but instead implicitly, like we are beginning to see now where some of us are being refused access to pubs/restaurants. This will inevitably broaden to other venues – shops and public transport – before the next stage, which will be a requirement (or rather, we will be ‘encouraged’) to show a ‘certificate of vaccination’ on our phones before being able to access venues or use transport. Tobias Elwood MP alluded to this in the House of Commons on Monday.

161160 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to takeme, 8, #205 of 2057 🔗

Tobias Elwood is a snake on the grass. When johnson is ousted we should be very worried if he gets close to power.

161169 ▶▶▶▶ takeme, replying to karenovirus, 7, #206 of 2057 🔗

Yes, very much STILL a military man. Knows where his allegiances lie.

161689 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to karenovirus, 4, #207 of 2057 🔗

That’s why he should be charged with treason when this is all over. His attempts in sowing division between the armed forces and the people is despicable and must be resisted at all costs.

161366 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Peter Thompson, 4, #208 of 2057 🔗

But they’re no longer people, they’re terrified sheep.

161368 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Peter Thompson, 4, #209 of 2057 🔗

I believe 10 m might have d/l it out of curiosity…..

Had a bit of a play, realised how shit and battery drainy it is….

Then deleted it.

(Seriously I bet 5m have already deleted it)

161710 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Farinances, 1, #210 of 2057 🔗

Yes, running bluetooth constantly is a real no-no unless you keep your phone on the charger all the time. And then the app’s no use anyway. Not that it’s any use to begin with.

162196 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Farinances, 2, #211 of 2057 🔗

I’ll take that bet… when I look at compliance re masks etc, I have no doubt that the vast majority of those 10M downloads are being actively used.

161760 ▶▶ Willow, replying to Peter Thompson, #212 of 2057 🔗

Do tell them about the alternative 😉

160754 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #213 of 2057 🔗

Crisis averted in the stock market – at least in the short term (anyone who can remember the Financial Crisis will remember the rescue rights issue of Royal Bank of Scotland failed). Rolls Royce attempt to stave off collapse:

‘Rolls-Royce Holdings plc (“Rolls-Royce” or the “Group” or the “Company”) today announces its intention to raise gross proceeds of approximately £2bn by way of a fully underwritten 10 for 3 Rights Issue. In conjunction with the Rights Issue, the Company intends to commence, in the near future, a Bond Offering to raise gross proceeds of at least £1bn. The Company has also agreed commitments for a new two year term loan facility of £1bn and received an indication of support in principle from UK Export Finance for an extension of its 80% guarantee to support a potential increase of the Company’s existing £2bn five year term loan of up to £1bn’

Will it work?

160761 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #214 of 2057 🔗

RR was also rescued in the 1970s I recall, right when they were developing the engines for the new Lockheed Tristar. Today they face a profound demand issue, there is not much flying going on. I am sure plenty of investors (sorry lenders) will buy up the bonds given the implicit government guarantee. The difference between RR and the banks is that RR is not systemically important, thought the jobs in Derby will be politically so…

160782 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to jhfreedom, 2, #215 of 2057 🔗

RR is a one of the UK’s few manufacturing remaining successes. The gov would be crazy to let it fail, but I wouldn’t bet my life that they won’t. Which is why I wouldn’t buy their bonds…

160820 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to jhfreedom, 4, #216 of 2057 🔗

Early 70s original RR going bust. Government took it over because it was so important.
RR aircraft engines were floated in 1987 and continue to today. .
Rolls Royce motors (i.e. cars) already sold off as a separate company which was then acquired by Vickers (who made tanks etc). They then sold the company to VW (but not the name) hence VW make Bentleys at Crewe and Mercedes who bought the name make RRs.
The usual farce of british industry

160837 ▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to mjr, 3, #217 of 2057 🔗

BMW make RRs but yes good history

160879 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to jhfreedom, #218 of 2057 🔗

whoops basic mistake.. Dont know where mercedes came from

161129 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to mjr, #219 of 2057 🔗

Yes, VW Phaeton the sensible man’s Bentley.

162199 ▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #220 of 2057 🔗

LOL seriously? More like the fat man’s Passat.

161009 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #221 of 2057 🔗

RR switched to a “pay for power by the hour” business model for their Trent engines.

That’s not looking like a smart move now.

161176 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #222 of 2057 🔗

According to BBC R4 news RR gets paid for their engines not as outright sale but for the time they are actually in use which, at the moment, is not a lot.

160756 Basics, replying to Basics, 9, #223 of 2057 🔗

Partrick Heningsen has written a short series of helpful tweets, a kind of crib sheet for challenging the pandemic narrative in conversation.
It is really worthwhile having a quick read. The points could easily be converted into a leaflet by adding the sources to the four killer points.


Others are adding helpful info to the thread.

160791 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Basics, 15, #224 of 2057 🔗

Reading through that list I am shocked that anyone wouldn’t be aware of these issues. Not the man in the street per say, but those opinionated individuals and especially MPs.

For those screaming it’s the plague, do they actually want to live in fear? I for one do not function well under fear or stress. I seek ways to get past that through information, educating myself about that thing I am fearful of. It’s the only thing that has got me from the China ‘bodies in the street’ fear in March to now, where its very much a case of shrugging the shoulders. The positive story is out there if they want it.

As for MPs, its criminal and they should never be allowed to forget how utterly useless they’ve been.

160821 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 5, #225 of 2057 🔗

The list forms a fundamental basis against all in favour of the criminal fraud and associated measures, as you say. To keep in mind as we address these public officials who have chosen group think and/or chosen to damage our lives deliberately.

160881 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Basics, 2, #226 of 2057 🔗

It’s useful but it could have been written months ago. People are intent on living in fear.

160768 Basics, replying to Basics, 8, #227 of 2057 🔗

Grenn recovery. Today they/them are launching yet another psy-op to label all on an individual level. Littering is now being alliterated to Personal Pollution.

You won’t find a strong opponent of littering, it is and always has been personal responsibility – that is not my point. The introduction of a new specific term that demonises each person, putting out yet another sense of individual shame.

160809 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Basics, 7, #228 of 2057 🔗

Personal pollution, just like the kind of personal pollution we are now guilty off by exuding our covids out of our disease-ridden bodies.

A very apt term from an anti-human agenda.

160824 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Two-Six, 4, #229 of 2057 🔗

2 6 you put is exactly as I was trying to. Grubby little good for nothing beings we are.

160825 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Two-Six, 4, #230 of 2057 🔗

next they will make farting a crime

160846 ▶▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to mjr, 1, #231 of 2057 🔗

strictly speaking only if you’re not wearing shorts!

160876 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #232 of 2057 🔗

what ? on the basis that shorts are as effective as masks. ???

161095 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to mjr, 1, #233 of 2057 🔗

new slogan -if you can smell it-you can catch it

161584 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mjr, 1, #234 of 2057 🔗

Obviously. The Science has evidence.

161581 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mjr, 1, #235 of 2057 🔗

Isn’t it?
I know some people whose farts should be!
Ah but that would penalise the majority because of the minority and we don’t do that in this country.
Do we?

162208 ▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #236 of 2057 🔗

Punishing the whole group for the ‘transgressions’ of the few is the standard M.O. of our society.

160990 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Basics, 10, #237 of 2057 🔗

Its always baffling that those who say they’re pro-environment are always silent about littering. Even during the height of the hysteria over single use plastics and coffee cups, everytime I mention littering, I’m always greeted with silence.

Now with the proliferation of muzzles everywhere, still nowt a peep. Even if they’re more hazardous to the environment than single use plastics.

161586 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #238 of 2057 🔗

But we’re banning plastic straws and cotton buds while nonchalantly flinging face nappies everywhere.

161691 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #239 of 2057 🔗

Yeah odd innit?? The inconsistency is laughable.

161186 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, 1, #240 of 2057 🔗

Sorry for wasting all the oxygen Bill.

161719 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Basics, 1, #241 of 2057 🔗

I searched for that term and all I found was “Good news! Plastic straws, stirrers and cotton buds to be banned in the UK from today”

I’ve sited a source, how about you give us a hint about where you got this littering meme from?

Frankly sounds like a distraction from the topic of discussion on this site. Unless masks have been banned as part of this.

161980 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Basics, #242 of 2057 🔗

Many masks dropped….

160769 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 5, #243 of 2057 🔗

Not first – but perhaps first with a question.

Do we know how many people Whitty, et al, fear may die in a second wave if nothing was done?

Johnson talks of “a huge loss of life” – could he be more precise?

160785 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #244 of 2057 🔗

It’s somewhere between 10,000 (20% to herd immunity) and 160,000 (80% to herd immunity), assuming the IFR is 0.4%.

I explain a bit more in an earlier post.

160808 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to stewart, #245 of 2057 🔗

Much thanks for that. It is very helpful.

160925 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to stewart, 4, #246 of 2057 🔗

So well within the government’s own estimation of the cost in lives of lockdown: 75,000 recently, but (a more realistic?) 200,000 estimated in April.

Covid is much less deadly than Johnson, using the government’s own figures.

160933 ▶▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Ovis, 9, #247 of 2057 🔗

The cure is worse than the disease. I was saying this back in March.

160779 Jane in France, replying to Jane in France, 7, #248 of 2057 🔗

I read with horror the article in Spiked about what students are having to put up with. Just one question : are they allowed out at all? I don’t mean to go to the pub or a party, but for a solitary walk in the hills for example?

160798 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Jane in France, 7, #249 of 2057 🔗

As far as I understand it no.

They get things delivered. Some have been complaining not enough booze is being included. Totally fair point in my opinion

160842 ▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Jane in France, 10, #250 of 2057 🔗

I just don’t understand why there aren’t any jailbreaks. If my kids were imprisoned i’d have sprung them by now and by force if necessary. What is wrong with people?

161085 ▶▶▶ Richard, replying to NonCompliant, 9, #251 of 2057 🔗

I agree – if this my daughter she would have been out immediately – even if it did mean turning up with solicitor ! I know there is a fee issue but frankly that must be contestable and the class actions type suits against universities must be starting

162212 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Jane in France, 2, #252 of 2057 🔗

This is the silver lining on the big grey cloud. These conformist numpties are getting a good hard lesson in what happens when you rely on the government for everything.

160784 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, #253 of 2057 🔗

Can someone please repost the link from late yesterday with hancick saying for the first time (?)he has no other strategy except lockdown until vaccine arrives. I’m out & about lacking skills and time.

161292 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bumble, #255 of 2057 🔗

Thank you Bumble

160877 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to karenovirus, 9, #256 of 2057 🔗

Power to isolate someone they believe may be infectious. That is the killer for me. Chilling stuff delivered with not a hint of remorse. Absolute madman.

162473 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #257 of 2057 🔗

In NZ they have the power not only to drag you out of your home and put you in an isolation prison, they also make you pay for the privilege.

160795 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 9, #258 of 2057 🔗

Listening to a retired submarine officer on R4 advising people how to deal with extended periods of lockdown.

160829 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #259 of 2057 🔗

Extended penis-wound dressing drills.

That what they do in submarines when under the Arctic circle for protracted periods. It boosts moral, so does having purple jelly on Monday nights for desert.

So I heard anyway, I used to know a submariner.

160835 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Two-Six, 1, #260 of 2057 🔗

“Extended” Quite how arousal would be maintained amid having such a wound I have no idea!!

161504 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to jhfreedom, 2, #261 of 2057 🔗

Ah but the wound was asymptomatic.

160834 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Fingerache Philip., 7, #262 of 2057 🔗

Normalising the Madness by telling people how to cope with it. Resist! Don’t adapt, you morons!

161302 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #263 of 2057 🔗

The son of my dad’s best mate (both former RN) was Royal Navy surgeon. He says he was only allowed to serve 6 months in submarines “because then you start going loopy”.

161595 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to karenovirus, 5, #264 of 2057 🔗

We’ve done our time. Let us out!!!

161725 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to karenovirus, 2, #265 of 2057 🔗

Well, we are well and truly loopy, so obviously correct.

160799 Bumble, replying to Bumble, 47, #266 of 2057 🔗

I’m posting something positive today, a small ray of hope for the performing arts sector.

Last night I went to my first Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra concert for 6 months. This shutdown is the longest in the orchestra’s 127 year history which spans 2 world wars and plenty of flu pandemics as well.

It was quite emotional as the CEO made a speech at the start of the concert. I was cheered that he refused to accept the ‘new normal’ of spaced orchestra and 40% capacity. ‘I will not stop fighting until we have full stages and full houses again”, acknowledging the suffering of freelancers who have no work at the moment.

The concert was shorter than normal, no interval and it was strange that we were all sitting in our own islands. However it was interesting to see the audience age. The BSO audience is normally much older than you see in London and it was great that lots of over 75s had decided that their weekly fix of music was important to them and worth the ‘risk’ (which has always been miniscule in Dorset even back in March).

It’s going to be a slow grind against the morons running this country but we will prevail and we will defeat the ‘new normal’.

160845 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bumble, 4, #267 of 2057 🔗

Anyone who is in the performing arts should maybe look for gigs in Sweden, where you will soon be able to hold them!

161001 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Carrie, 7, #268 of 2057 🔗

Could a cruise ship be chartered and sail out to international waters, and then hold whatever concerts it likes?

161352 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to kf99, 4, #269 of 2057 🔗

Ooh we could all go and have a sort of sceptic convention! When this is all over I’d love to meet up with at least 5 of you.

161599 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to CGL, 6, #270 of 2057 🔗

There will be annual reunions of Old Sceptics.
Given the zombie attitude towards us, perhaps we should call ourselves The New Contemptibles.

161605 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kf99, 3, #271 of 2057 🔗

Better to charter a ship, install the Cabinet, Sage, the advisors and … (insert your own suggestions, it’s a big ship), then pull the plug somewhere in international waters.

161624 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cheezilla, #272 of 2057 🔗

It’s what they are apparently planning to do with the illegal immigrants so they can hardly complain about it being inhuman.

161010 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bumble, 7, #273 of 2057 🔗

Well done him!!! He’s done more than the supine characters we have here in London.

162171 ▶▶ Lyra Silvertongue, replying to Bumble, 2, #274 of 2057 🔗

That’s fantastic to hear, musicians in all genres have suffered greatly under this regime for obvious reasons. Pleased to report that amateur orchestras are starting to get together again, using a technicality in the law which allows exemption from the rule of sicks.

160800 Biker, 9, #275 of 2057 🔗

I almost feel sorry for those that put their faith in Boris and Rees Mogg. Boris is fat and as such greedy, conniving and a liar, like all fat people. Rees Mogg is catholic and anyone who can believe that shit is a fucking lunatic. What kind of puny mind looks at these fellows and thinks “they’re the ones for me”. I’ll tell you, a victim of state education. They prove why we can’t have a system, why the only way is no government whatsoever. I, as a highly functioning adult on the artistic spectrum have to suffer rules laid down by people like fat Boris, a man who can’t even look after his own body, and Rees-Mogg a man who believes in the supernatural, and voted in by the kind of barely educated arsehole who believe in democracy and thinks just because they vote once every five years it gives the tyranny legitimacy.

160801 alw, replying to alw, 15, #276 of 2057 🔗

Had to visit dentist yesterday for toothache. Surreal experience. Have to turn up 5 minutes before appointment, knock on door to enter, you are not allowed to touch any other part of door. Have your temperature taken, use hand sanitiser, sit on allocated social distancing seat. Not allowed to take your handbag into surgery, but leave by box at door. Return to reception to pay. Have to sign paper with their pen which is then sanitised. Offered sanitiser for hands when leaving which I refused and don’t approve of for regular use. 4 dentists in practice only one of whom working, one on maternity leave, one hygienist and two receptionists. Talk about risk averse. Cannot see that NHS dentistry will continue if this the attitude. Off to register with a private practice.

160813 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to alw, 9, #277 of 2057 🔗

Don’t bother. I have a private dentist and she is doing absolute fuck all. Emergencies only. No routine check-up appointments. I haven’t had my teeth checked for almost a year now. On t’other hand, you might be lucky and find someone who will see you.

161028 ▶▶▶ davews, replying to thedarkhorse, 7, #278 of 2057 🔗

Indeed. Still waiting for six monthly checkup at private dentist postponed from March then June. Was told then that it might be December before they could see me and of course the lockdowns continue. Nothing at all heard from them.

161471 ▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to davews, 9, #279 of 2057 🔗

Just been onto my dentist to ask when the next routine checkup is to happen. I said, “Why am I paying you £16 per month on Denplan?” Receptionist says “There is a pandemic on, you know!” “In that case, if you aren’t doing the work, I’ll cancel my Direct Debit, because you aren’t doing the work”. Instant panic, had an appointment with two weeks.

161692 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to RichardJames, 3, #280 of 2057 🔗

Funny how once you threaten to withdraw your custom, service is resumed.

160814 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to alw, 5, #281 of 2057 🔗

That’s what I keep hearing ‘not allowed’ stand here, sit there, don’t do that. What happens if we say no??!!!

160828 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to stefarm, 10, #282 of 2057 🔗

They throw you out. If you want medical care you have to play the game. Or remain in pain. Or die.

160826 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to alw, 5, #283 of 2057 🔗

My dentist has a ‘fallow period’ of 60 minutes between appointments. Nuts. I have a routine appointment for December so I suppose I am lucky…

160840 ▶▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to jhfreedom, 3, #284 of 2057 🔗

Their ‘guidelines’ state 60 minutes between appointments to allow time for aerosols (created during procedures) to disperse and to sanitise the surgery.

160848 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to jhfreedom, 3, #285 of 2057 🔗

A fallow period on a library book is 72 hours is it not? I just wonder if denists aren’t overly brain celled. Thhe CMO of Scotland is a denist so I believe the may be a string case for low brain cell count amoung dentists.

161636 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #286 of 2057 🔗

That’s to allow them to do the mandatory deep clean between visits as per their trade association/insurers worried about getting sued because Covid Contagion.

162216 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to karenovirus, 1, #287 of 2057 🔗

Bingo. It’s ALL about the lawyers and the insurers.

161744 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #288 of 2057 🔗

Mine supposedly does too. But unless they’re using two rooms, there was no real time at all between me and the next person. Despite my dentist raving about how all this nonsense was “to keep us all safe”. I think he was just telling himself that to justify the money he’s losing because of the extra cost involved in running the practice inefficiently.

160838 ▶▶ Basics, replying to alw, 12, #289 of 2057 🔗

Please phone your denist immediately. That handbag box will be a veritable hive of covids. It is widely accepted by epidemeologists that boxed covids become very angry when contained. Better epidemeologists don’t accept this theory.

160841 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to alw, 6, #290 of 2057 🔗

My dentist is a private one, they are mental too. I haven’t seen them December. I won’t go either until they stop being insane. Luckily my teeth are OK.

161025 ▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to alw, 5, #291 of 2057 🔗

What is this bag thing about?, they treat them like they are bombs waiting to go off!. I now can’t stop myself shaking my head and laughing slightly hysterically. Anyone who still believes in all this crap really has helped create the dystopia we are living in. I have said before that if everyone refused to wear masks for instance, what could they do?, arrest millions of people?.

161154 ▶▶ leggy, replying to alw, 1, #292 of 2057 🔗

Dentistry is a racket. I haven’t visited one for 20 years. No toothache here.

161985 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to leggy, #293 of 2057 🔗

Have you got a sweet tooth?

161353 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to alw, 4, #294 of 2057 🔗

Our dentist is a shower of shite. Absolutely no contact since March and we were due checkups in May. Mum had an email to assure her “emergency treatment is still available”
My only consolation is he’s private, so will be losing a fortune in routine apt fees from his generally good-toothed middle class clientele

161596 ▶▶▶ Mutineer, replying to Farinances, 5, #295 of 2057 🔗

I went privately. Cost me over £300 for a filling. My appointment for 2.30pm was ‘brought forward’ due to a cancellation but when I arrived I had to sit muzzled in the waiting room for 30 minutes while they ‘sanitised the room’ so I suppose I was charged for the cleaning! I didn’t need to sit muzzled for half an hour so they could prove to me that they were cleaning the room! The whole procedure was horrible and like something from a sci fi film with the dentist in frightening protective gear. I also had my hip replacement cancelled indefinitely so I went to see a private specialist. He told me that the NHS has commandeered their surgical facilities even though they aren’t being used. I had to pay over £600 for a private steroid injection just to be able to walk, The specialist was livid over what is happening to the old and sick. His own opinion is that this is all a plan. All my cancer checks that were so very ‘vital’ last year have been cancelled. Imagine a disease so very deadly that the ‘cure’ is going to kill far more than the disease itself. I wrote a long letter to my MP, Sajid Javid, and his reply was a ‘cut and paste’ job (one paragraph was missing its beginning and made no sense) which didn’t answer a single question I had asked. His suggestion over the refusal of the NHS to treat people was to give me the NHS 111 number and the number of my own GP! The surgery has been closed except for phone consultations since March and it can take 2 weeks even for a GP to call you back. I hope he likes my furious reply.

161361 ▶▶ CGL, replying to alw, 2, #296 of 2057 🔗

I’ve had 6 appointments since May after having not much more than check ups for the first 50 years of my life. It is the most dystopian experience.

161619 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to alw, 1, #297 of 2057 🔗

My private practice issued rules that were extremely silly.
My dentist is a very bright, sensible chap. The regulations have come from his parent company, possibly to satisfy insurance demands.
Clearly designed from a worst case doomsday scenario, conjured up by a medically ignorant H&S group and a desire to avoid being sued.

161630 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to alw, #298 of 2057 🔗

That’s an improvement, when they first reopened you had to sit in your car and phone to let them know you had arrived and then wait for permission to enter.

161734 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to alw, 1, #299 of 2057 🔗

I’m with a private practice and your experience mirrors mine with only minor differences. I think the restrictions are on dentists in general, not whether they are NHS or private.

160810 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to kh1485, 3, #301 of 2057 🔗

More money making crap for these parisitic companies and no doubt non recyclable not that that matters anymore.

160815 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kh1485, 2, #302 of 2057 🔗

Hey, if people want stuff, sell it to them! What about personalised “Pubs killed my granny” body bags?

160822 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to kh1485, 3, #303 of 2057 🔗

Get your restaurant-killing stickers here folks

160836 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to kh1485, 4, #304 of 2057 🔗

I need a badge which states-“If I fart you will smell it-trousers are no protection”

160947 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to crimsonpirate, 2, #305 of 2057 🔗

T-shirt slogan: “Trousers don’t work against farts. Masks don’t work against viruses.”

161088 ▶▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Mabel Cow, #306 of 2057 🔗

given the authorities are checking the sewage for traces of corona maybe we will soon see No Farting signs

161628 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #307 of 2057 🔗

A lot of fart talk today. Has everyone had beans for lunch?
Or is it a sign that, because the government treats us like infants, we are regressing and have already reached adolescence?

161623 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kh1485, 1, #308 of 2057 🔗


160812 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 41, #309 of 2057 🔗

Keep the fight the guys.

Don’t give up and spread the message.

Our views are important and making a big difference. When I speak with people they tell me they were fooled in March/April and see what has happened in since especially

  • NHS
  • Sweden
  • Carl Heneghan, Sunetra Gupta and Karol Sikora now making a big stand

Apart from Sky News. Sky is begging for hospital admissions (they have to use May footage!). They have been going all over the world for the next horror story, Mexico, Brazil.

Boris thinks 6 months – it won’t last 6 weeks.
People are already going others houses. My next door has people coming and going, will I ring the police? NO

Hang in there.

160850 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to HawkAnalyst, 14, #310 of 2057 🔗

Well said. I actually got some hope from the propaganda broadcast last night. If seemed to me that they were on the backfoot and felt they had to repeatedly defend their position. E.g. NHS open for business, we can’t let it rip, numbers are going up steadily/rapidly, yeah , but, no, but etc

160852 ▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to HawkAnalyst, 17, #311 of 2057 🔗

It’s going to get like the Standford Prison experiment from here on in. The Jailers are just going to double down for every infraction or glimpse of rebellion from the inmates and no one will be willing or able to stop it. I’ve been in the fight for 4 months and all I still see around me are masked morons.

160911 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to HawkAnalyst, 10, #312 of 2057 🔗

Yeah totally agree. I felt that while yesterday was a battle lost, it really showed how weak they’ve become. Keep going, Stay Positive, Support good science.

160968 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to HawkAnalyst, 3, #313 of 2057 🔗

I hope you’re right. This doesn’t reflect what I see where I live.

161805 ▶▶ wat tyler, replying to HawkAnalyst, 1, #314 of 2057 🔗

I think the best bit of news yesterday was the fact that lib dems and a few labour members voted against the bill ,also Caroline Lucas .What that means is the sceptic message is starting to get through to all parties and they are voting because they see the tide turning our way and don’t want to miss the boat .I would bet in most cases it’s not out of conviction but letters they have received from constituents ,which buts to death the idea everyone in a labour seat wan’t further lockdowns .I have no time for any of these polls of late and believe the majority of people in the country would dread another lockdown ,The BBC ,Youguv and most mainstream media are just peddling government lies .

160819 crimsonpirate, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #315 of 2057 🔗

As a frequenter of pubs I’m worried about the latest wheeze thought up to control the virus. The idea of pubs only serving drinks with food.
I can’t see how that would work or make sense. Ireland reopened the pubs months ago on this basis and infections have gradually risen. It’s only now that “wet” pubs are now open except Dublin

160895 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to crimsonpirate, 6, #316 of 2057 🔗

I remember saying back in March ” They’ll never close the pubs here, or in Ireland, there’ll be riots “. Oh well

161212 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to crimsonpirate, 4, #317 of 2057 🔗

A restaurant in Germany did that, when they were only allowed to stay open when serving “food”. Oh, actually, the food had to be the more expensive item. So they sold “packages”: a bag of peanuts for £8.50 with a cocktail for £0.80.
A bag of crisps for £4.50 with a pint for £0.30.

160831 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 3, #318 of 2057 🔗

A pedantic point:-

Quoted above – Sir Patrick’s words:-

“doubling means things go very big very quickly. And when things double you see that exponential growth”

That’s not my understanding of “exponential growth”. It is growth to the power of 2 – which is exponential mathmatically – but I always thought the phrase implied an increasing rate of growth. (e.g. doubling and then more than doubling etc.)

Yea thus sayeth my computer’s dictionary:-

1 (of an increase) becoming more and more rapid:

160856 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #319 of 2057 🔗

I think he meant the Government Covid spend!

160858 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Ned of the Hills, #320 of 2057 🔗

That’s the same thing? If cases keep doubling, the delta between two sampling points is larger than the preceding two.

160889 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Tee Ell, 2, #321 of 2057 🔗

I think I must own my understanding of “exponential growth” has been in error once I consider them there ‘deltas’ – much thanks.

160865 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #322 of 2057 🔗

correct .. exponential growth does mean an increase by a certain power or growth rate. This can be doubling, or a tripling etc . The other variable is the length of time it takes to increase. So something that doubles every day or something that triples every week are both exponential growths.
So the example of exponential growth they have quoted has the variables of a growth rate r of x2 and a time period t of 7 days
and it is all bullsh*t

160891 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #323 of 2057 🔗

An exponent is the number of times a value it is multiplied by itself. 100 is 10*10 so the exponent for 10 is 2. To demonstrate this place a single rice grain on the first square of a chess board, 2 on the second, 4 on the third. Once the first row is completed the eighth square will have 128 grains on it. Once the second row is completed the 16 th square will have 32768 grains on it. By the time the 64th square is filled it will contain 2 multiplied by itself 63 times.
If the exponent is 0 then the result is 1, so 10 to the power 0 is 1.

160967 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to p02099003, #324 of 2057 🔗

This is also called logarithmic growth, exponential growth was IIRC originally associated with the mathematical constant e, 2.7182…

161271 ▶▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to p02099003, #325 of 2057 🔗

They are both logarithms. “e” is simply known as the natural logarithm. Logarithms are actually the inverse of the exponent.

160839 AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 58, #326 of 2057 🔗

Anyone else in a self enforced sceptical lockdown?

Apart from going to work and walking the dogs, I’m choosing to stay at home. I’d rather opt out of other stuff that I did befor than go along with masking, tracking, irrational zombie world.

160851 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 13, #327 of 2057 🔗

Yes, although I’m meeting my pal for dinner tonight, he is going through a lockdown induced divorce. Can’t say I’m looking forward to it and can forsee me being refused entry.

160900 ▶▶▶ wayno, replying to stefarm, 11, #328 of 2057 🔗

After a few post on here this morning about being refused entry i checked the gov website:


and it states “ In England, you do not have to request details from people who check in with the official NHS QR poster, and venues should not ask them to do both. Venues must not make the specific use of the NHS QR code a precondition of entry (as the individual has the right to choose to provide their contact details if they prefer). Should someone choose to check in with the official NHS QR poster, a venue should check their phone screen to ensure they have successfully checked in.”

160917 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to wayno, 10, #329 of 2057 🔗

Trouble is, venues just make up their own rules; they haven’t even seen the actual guidance, c.f. “You have to have a doctor’s note” etc.

161226 ▶▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #330 of 2057 🔗

Then it is important to know the rules. But why should we have to prove it?
My local sandwich shop asks for “Proof of exemption”.
What does that actually mean? Anyone can print themselves an exemption badge or wear a sunflower lanyard.

161662 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Silke David, 2, #331 of 2057 🔗

It means they’re lazy and idiots.

161763 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #332 of 2057 🔗

And don’t deserve your money.

161215 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to wayno, 1, #333 of 2057 🔗

As well if you are in a group of up to 6, only 1 person needs to check in, assuming if that person gets an alert, they will let the rest of the group know.
No surprise they have such a low uptake on isolation.

161659 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Silke David, 2, #334 of 2057 🔗

Besides, if people are privately informing friends and family they’ve tested positive, there can be no official record of the true self-isolation figures.
It’s nonsense!

Actually I thought de Piffle said last week that everyone in a party had to check in now. Interesting if that hasn’t been mandated after all.

161750 ▶▶▶ JamesDrebin, replying to stefarm, #335 of 2057 🔗

So sorry to hear that for your friend. 🙁

162238 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to JamesDrebin, 2, #336 of 2057 🔗

Don’t be like that… I’d be excited for my friend’s opportunity to free himself from an oppressive marriage to an insufferable woman.

160855 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 45, #337 of 2057 🔗

Yes, I am. I haven’t posted in here for quite a while as I’ve literally been trying to ignore it all. I have a smallholding where I spend all my days with my animals and land, and just go home to sleep. I don’t go anywhere else as it’s all too depressing. Everything is ordered online as the last time I went into a shop maskless I got shouted out by a nasty customer. But I simply won’t go along with any of this utter nonsense, so I’m making my own stand by refusing.

I have however decided that I must start speaking out again, even if I am not going anywhere, so here I am – back in the fold of lockdownsceptics! 😊

160870 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to CarrieAH, 5, #338 of 2057 🔗

Welcome back, fellow Carrie 🙂

160874 ▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Carrie, 4, #339 of 2057 🔗

Thank you – we Carries have to stick together! 😘

160888 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to CarrieAH, 5, #340 of 2057 🔗

You should Carrie on. <gets coat>

161076 ▶▶▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to CarrieAH, 2, #341 of 2057 🔗

Try being a sceptical Karen. It has been decided (largely by older blokes) that we are haram! Lol

161601 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Carrie, 1, #342 of 2057 🔗

Yes, Carrie on Carrying!

160871 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to CarrieAH, 5, #343 of 2057 🔗

that sounds so nice… a smallholding with animals . . You make me jealous!!

160875 ▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to mjr, 15, #344 of 2057 🔗

It is indeed lovely in good weather. Though think of me in winter up to my welly tops in clay mud, and covered in animal poo! 😂 Still, better than meandering round a shop acting like a sheep, muzzled and QR-coded!

160884 ▶▶▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to CarrieAH, 2, #345 of 2057 🔗

Sound s like paradise compared to a trip to M&S!

160957 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to CarrieAH, 1, #346 of 2057 🔗

Welcome back, CarrieAH!!!

161281 ▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to CarrieAH, #347 of 2057 🔗

Nice post – and a boost to the morale!

161665 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to CarrieAH, #348 of 2057 🔗

Yay! Welcome back.

162222 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to CarrieAH, 1, #349 of 2057 🔗

welcome back!

160860 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 20, #350 of 2057 🔗

I was an enthusiastic non-participant in what many people would call “life” now I am a super-opter-outer. Totally disengaged from EVERYTHING. Thankfully. I just hope I can stay disengaged until the mass-psychosis wears off.

161996 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Two-Six, #351 of 2057 🔗

What about food shopping?

160864 ▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 19, #352 of 2057 🔗

Yeah, pretty much taking myself out of circulation now too. I only ventured into town for the pub or a meal on the weekends but I’m no longer going to bother. If I can’t get in the nearest local for a pint without using this stupid app it’ll be tins in the garden by firelight for my nights out.

160867 ▶▶ tonys, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 15, #353 of 2057 🔗

Yes, I even hated working from home so much I decided to retire, I try and avoid anywhere now where the masked multitudes gather.

160902 ▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to tonys, 4, #354 of 2057 🔗

I’m a few years off “retirement” myself but resignation has crossed my mind more than once in the last six months.

160898 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 13, #355 of 2057 🔗

Yes, generally. Went out walking in the Cotswolds day before yesterday. Avoided all the shops. It was a bit painful because Wotton under edge has some pretty craft shops that I would normally have gone into….but I resisted (easily). Mask wearers even out in the high street and not all of them elderly either. Apart from that, it’s local walks, a weekly trip to the farmshop (car-park collection) and the local “outdoor” shop up the road.
Shopping done online. Lots of hobbies; developing in-depth skills with one or two of them; no meals out, no pub visits (didnt do them very often anyway).
I do miss the fish and chip shop, though. The local demands masks, even just to step inside and pick up a pre-order.

160916 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to thedarkhorse, 2, #356 of 2057 🔗

Get them to throw the fish and chips at you. Nice and safe. My local chippy were OK, not sure how they will be now. Scared of a £10000 fine now probably.

160930 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 11, #357 of 2057 🔗

Me, just walking, even my cafe on the beach has gone mad, little shed thing and they want to show you to the table and take my name!, refused and although its been a place of sanctuary for many years, now gone, just the walk left now. Online shopping, that’s it. Who would have thought, a year ago….

161671 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #358 of 2057 🔗

6 months ago!

160953 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 9, #359 of 2057 🔗

Generally yes. Going out to work, meet a few people not 100% afraid of the virus, go for a walk, engage in a bit of hit and run visits to shops but apart from that my boycott of a lot of things still stand.

160960 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 13, #360 of 2057 🔗

Yup, I go to the shops unmasked, my wife hasn’t been to a shop since 24.7 and now that you have to wear a mask in a cafe and do T&T she doesn’t want to do that and neither do I.

160998 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 14, #361 of 2057 🔗

Well I go to the office every day (London Bridge area) so at least I can go on the walk by the Thames at lunchtime, my favorite sandwich shop does not care a jolt about masks, neither do any of the big high street cafes. I see a lot of people masked on the street, commuting in I’m normally the only one without a mask, I get a lot of angry looks. Other than that they have pretty much taken everything that kept me sane . Can’t play basketball, can’t go and see a football, rugby game live (something I loved!!),can’t go to a use my before I download an app ( I refuse too).The only time I eat out is when I go with my family as my wife does all the talking, downloads the app etc. Most days I wake up and think what is the point, when will this end if ever, how did we get here and I’m scared of the future for my daughter. It’s going to be grim , long winter and we have nothing to look forward too in the Spring either as the government will never let us out of this lockdown-not lockdown circle of hell..

161234 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Thomas_E, 9, #362 of 2057 🔗

Angry looks by masked people. I concluded they are angry as they themselves are not brave enough to go unmasked. They are angry at themselves.

161534 ▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Silke David, 4, #363 of 2057 🔗

I counter by giving angry looks to the people wearing masks on the street. Morons.

161676 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sophie123, 1, #364 of 2057 🔗

I just look them in the eye and demonstrate old normalcy.

161033 ▶▶ Paul, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 16, #365 of 2057 🔗

I’ve pretty much withdrawn from society now,we still go for a weekly meal with our friends at a restaurant but the covid madness is rapidly closing in around that,I no longer go in shops,I can ignore the dirty looks and comments for being maskless but being surrounded by zombies at all times has become too much to bear.I said to my wife last night that from now on I can only bear to be around our family and friends,all of whom are sceptical,I just do not want to be with anyone else

161128 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Paul, 2, #366 of 2057 🔗

Same here; I’m a virtual drop out. Solitary walks, early in the mornings when friendly dog walkers abound, few obligatory shopping trips and a lot of reading and watching whatever Amazon Prime offers which isn’t American pc junk.

161144 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 7, #367 of 2057 🔗

Yep. More locked down now than I was in June/July before maskage came in.

161270 ▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 6, #368 of 2057 🔗

I am singing in two church choirs. One musical director is interpreting the RSCM guidance the right way – ‘face coverings’ only while walking in and out of the church and not in the choir area because there are eight of us, two metres apart, and a covered face interferes with breath control – whilst the other, much younger one, is insisting on ‘masks’ at all times whilst not actually singing and wearing one as well as a visor himself. One silly woman actually ‘sang’ in a mask on Sunday, making a ridiculous muffled noise.
I will not compromise my integrity as a singer in that way and I think the second choir may have to go. It is interesting that it is the older people who are the most sceptical!

161604 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Caroline Watson, 1, #369 of 2057 🔗

Keep singing.

161376 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, #370 of 2057 🔗

School run, butcher and petrol station

161392 ▶▶ Ed Turnbull, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 7, #371 of 2057 🔗

Not so much locked down, rather I’m just being choosy about where I go. I go to my local supermarket everyday and I’m sad to report that the number of humans (i.e. the maskless) is diminishing. (I’ve been keeping a daily count of humans since the mask nonsense began and, for a while, the trend was upward. But now it’s flatlined, and I fear will start heading down). I go out walking, cycling, biking, driving etc wherever and whenever I please.

I’m only going into non-food shops when strictly necessary, and I’m avoiding the hospitality sector completely. Those enforcing the T&T need to understand that the wages of complicity in this venomous pantomime is bankruptcy. And well-earned at that.

I go everywhere maskless and I’ve not been challenged once, though my wife has. Maybe folk are wary about fronting up a grizzled old biker sporting a Gadsden flag T-shirt, and projecting a thousand yard stare like he might go postal at any minute. And who knows, I just might if I see too many more masked zombies. Such creatures are no longer human to me. After all, how can they be considered members of the species homo sapiens when they’re clearly not sapient? Stay sane fellow sceptics, stay sane.

161852 ▶▶ wat tyler, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 3, #372 of 2057 🔗

Hi there ,I go out everyday working or when off out walking and meeting friends but have decided to not spend any money apart from food and basic other things i need.So no pubs,restaurants ,takeaways or unnecessary shopping .I feel the only way to make them drop all the nonsense is an economic boycott and i hope others will follow suit .I don’t think one has to lock ones self away to do this ,you can still go to friends or bring them to yours and eat and drink together or if you have kids theres many things you can do with them that don’t cost money and still have a great time like a pack of sandwiches and a walk .It’s a great time to remind ourselves that nature and freedom are more important than shopping .

162206 ▶▶ Lyra Silvertongue, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 2, #373 of 2057 🔗

I figured out quite quickly where I wanted to go and where to avoid.

There is a bit of loony stuff in varying degrees when arriving at work but I’m ‘unsupervised’ for the vast majority of the time I’m actually doing my job. With SE stuff generally I work to the principle of enquiring what my customers would feel comfortable with, and they generally request very nonintrusive measures I have no issues with.

With a very few exceptions I started shopping in smaller independant places when the queues and the grunts appeared in March and will keep this going. Apart from face nappies they have as normal an experience as possible, the price is not really more than the sterile and hostile supermarkets and the staff actually treat you like they want you to come back. Picked up a bit of Polish vocab as a bonus.

My main group of friends are all quite outdoorsy types and we’ve done walks and cycle rides all summer – or else played music and art sessions together outside and a bit inside. Most of us don’t mind a bit of rain either. So social life not really suffered luckily, especially as have also made friends with several people in my street (also a good precaution against snitching should one need to engage in civil disobedience).

Apart from two outside pub visits, both of which I sneaked in without giving contact details, been avoiding eateries and such places with regret. Also unavoidably had to go to library today which I won’t be doing again. If I can’t borrow a book from a friend will just buy from charity shops, a couple of pounds is worth it to avoid the utter stupidity and overkill.

162234 ▶▶ Risk Assessment, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 4, #374 of 2057 🔗

Yes, absolutely. I’m going nowhere and spending nothing. My liberties have been removed and my government can’t be half truthful or balance covid risk vs all the knock-on neglect be misery in so many sectors.

My child is miserable at her half-an-education school, my job is likely to go, I’ll probably lose my home. Even if I keep my job, it involves international travel, so I’ll almost certainly have vaccination forced upon me if I wish to remain employed.

The sheer selfishness that seems inherent to so many British citizens is the nail in the coffin that has seen me remove myself from active participation in this excuse for a ‘society’.

One million women missed mammograms! Likely 18k-19k now with undiagnosed cancer. But all that criminal Boris wants to do is to ‘defeat the virus’. Looking after his own arse at the expense of those less privileged. It disgusts me to my core.

160843 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 17, #375 of 2057 🔗

I still haven’t bumped into anybody who looks even remotely sick

160868 ▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to stefarm, 14, #376 of 2057 🔗

Me neither but I must admit that I feel sick to the pit of my stomach today.

160951 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to NonCompliant, 12, #377 of 2057 🔗

Me too. Our church is starting back this Sunday and my wife and I, and some others won’t go, for various reasons. One of the main ones is that the thought of seeing my friends wearing masks just makes me feel sick in the stomach.

162493 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Moomin, #378 of 2057 🔗

You’re wise to stay away. Masked ghouls one and all, they don’t worship God, they worship Covid. Propitiate the Civid devil and he might, if he feels like it, save you from bodily death at his hands. All he wants in return us the death of your mind, spirit and soul.

160854 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 21, #379 of 2057 🔗

I’ve just seen the front of a local bus with a mask painted across it! I simply can’t believe how low this country has sunk.

160863 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Moomin, 18, #380 of 2057 🔗

We are now the world leaders in psychological warfare.

160946 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Two-Six, 5, #381 of 2057 🔗

Apparently Cummings has been interested and reading about it for years. Obviously started with Johnson and Hancock and progressed to the rest of us.

161812 ▶▶▶ Tarfu, replying to Two-Six, 1, #382 of 2057 🔗

We are now the world leaders in paranoia, hysteria, brainwashing and bedwetting

160909 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Moomin, 2, #383 of 2057 🔗

Mavis, get me the bazooka…

160943 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #384 of 2057 🔗

Complete insanity, they don’t even know they’ve been/are being brainwashed.

160974 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Moomin, 2, #385 of 2057 🔗

It’s the job of those who recognise brainwashing to step in. The brainwashees are not able to recognise they have been worked on. Luckily the brain washing is flimsy in some, they are the people who dither between something is up vs I must just do my bit.

161680 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Moomin, #386 of 2057 🔗

Isn’t that the point?

161011 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Moomin, 5, #387 of 2057 🔗

There are quite a few trains with masks painted on the front aswell,it makes me almost vomit.

161693 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Paul, 2, #388 of 2057 🔗

There’s PsyOp and taking the p*ss!

160869 guy153, replying to guy153, 9, #389 of 2057 🔗

This business of “exponential growth” and Patrick Ballache’s defence of it (or was it the other one I get them confused) is pure schientific shtick.

If you’ve been obsessively estimating R for six months and have found the value hovering stubbornly around 1 the whole time the conclusion should be obvious: that you’re in an endemic equilibrium.

Dozens of things in nature work like this. They are inherently exponential but limited by something.

160926 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to guy153, 3, #390 of 2057 🔗

Reminds me of the Ultraviolet Catastrophe

160959 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to mhcp, 1, #391 of 2057 🔗

Yes although the reasons why there is no ultraviolet catastrophe are considerably more subtle.

162249 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to guy153, #392 of 2057 🔗

Well, that’s a quantum of solace.

160941 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to guy153, 4, #393 of 2057 🔗

A bit like how bacteria doesn’t end covering the entire planet?

160956 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Cicatriz, 3, #394 of 2057 🔗

Not to mention rabbits.

161536 ▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to guy153, 1, #395 of 2057 🔗

But think how long my hair would be, if there were no limits! (though I think its growth is linear rather than exponential)

161600 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Sophie123, 3, #396 of 2057 🔗

Yes hair is linear, probably because it’s only growing at the head end. To have a chance of being exponential it would need to grow all along its length at once.

The effect of exponential functions in nature is that you reach the equilibrium defined by the limits very quickly and efficiently. We see this with epidemics. It makes little difference how big the population is, once it gets going it’s all over in about three weeks. And nothing can stop it once it has got going.

If you change the limits you find the new equilibrium also in the space of a few weeks. This is the graph of other viruses in the US (I think people who saw doctors because of them):


If you look at December 2018 for example you can see a peak in all the viruses for the three weeks or so around Christmas. There’s another one almost exactly the same around December 2019. In both cases infections rapidly rise to a sharp peak (they overshoot a bit) and then drop back down again to a higher equilibrium.

These are the system responding to altered limits (behaviour changes around Thanksgiving and Christmas most likely). You can see that the last two winters had about three “waves” of viruses– one in September, one around Christmas, and another one in early spring.

Usually nobody cares but this winter there will be a great song and dance (only with no singing allowed of course) about each one. Our first autumn ripple will be over soon, probably already is, but the panic will start to ramp up again around Christmas.

161887 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to guy153, #397 of 2057 🔗

Plenty of singing and dancing..on tiktok

161698 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sophie123, 1, #398 of 2057 🔗

Because hair knows when its time is up.

161697 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to guy153, #399 of 2057 🔗

The R rate is a huge stinky red herring when used in the context of covid propaganda.

162616 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Cheezilla, #400 of 2057 🔗

Yes although by staying so close to 1.0 all this time it is actually trying to tell us something. It’s just not what they want.

If we were really suppressing things according to the Fergie fantasy R would not be about 1.0 every time you tried to measure it. It would keep oscillating between about 0 and about 3. That’s what it’s doing in Australia.

160882 Chicot, replying to Chicot, 26, #401 of 2057 🔗

Unwelcome development at Tescos this morning. Had an old guy on the door. He said “Good Morning” and I thought he was just going to let me in but he then added almost apologetically “Do you have a facemask?”. To be fair, he was fine when I said I was exempt but no doubt this will deter many objectors who will just cave in. About 2 weeks ago I think there were about 20% unmasked, now there was just me and one other.

This whole mask business is such a load of bs. Not only is there very little evidence they actually work (and some evidence they are actually counterproductive) but we have this convenient message that everyone must wear one to “protect others”. If it was just a matter of wearing one to protect yourself, no doubt there would be many who would just prefer to take their chances. After a while it would become apparent that the non-muzzled were not actually all dropping dead and the sham would become obvious.

160885 ▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Chicot, 7, #402 of 2057 🔗

Giving up on visiting the local supermarket after yesterday. Just going to set up online accounts with each of the majors and make sure I spread my money as widely as possibly when I can’t get things from the local mini market who ‘so far’ are not being aggressive with the mask BS.

160945 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Chicot, 21, #403 of 2057 🔗

It’s bonkers agree.

I’m still baffled as to why the retail sector seems hell bent on committing hara-kiri. Not too long ago you had the High Street whining that Amazon, et al were driving them away. Now with their survival at stake, they’ve simply keeled over, cravenly kowtowed to the government’s insane “safety” diktat and given carte blanche to their staff who have Hitler and Stalin tendencies.

And they’re surprised that people are staying away and simply going online?

I won’t be surprised if in the run up to Christmas, online traffic will grow while the physical shops remain empty.

They will reap what they sow.

161063 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #404 of 2057 🔗

Harder for them to resist now, as they can be prosecuted for not having the QR codes, and you can bet the covid marshalls will be checking up on them. On Talk radio the other day a restaurant owner in London was saying they had been visited by marshalls to check they were following the rules..

161705 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, #405 of 2057 🔗

Hence why they should band together to resist this lunacy. United they stand divided they fall, if they show strength in numbers then this lunacy would either have ended ages ago or never gotten off the ground.

160989 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Chicot, 9, #406 of 2057 🔗

I think if more people realised that masking to protect others, increased their own risks a little, there’d be a lot more resistance.

160996 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to PoshPanic, 13, #407 of 2057 🔗

This is the absolute crux of the matter.

The maskers I talk to acknowledge that masks might not work, but “They can’t hurt, right?”.

We need to focus on making people doubt the neutrality of wearing a mask.

161079 ▶▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Mabel Cow, 3, #408 of 2057 🔗

Exactly. Also worth reposting this, as it really tackles the many mental health issues related to it..


161149 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to PoshPanic, 1, #409 of 2057 🔗


161541 ▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Mabel Cow, 3, #410 of 2057 🔗

I felt like this at first. But then I thought “No. It’s not neutral. It’s complicit in the lunacy and I cannot be complicit”

161709 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sophie123, 2, #411 of 2057 🔗

Exactly. Worn by collaborators.

161708 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mabel Cow, 1, #412 of 2057 🔗

Not neutral. We don’t call them face nappies for nothing. Disgusting germ-incubators.

161372 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Chicot, 3, #413 of 2057 🔗

No longer a customer of Waitrose because of their intimidating door guard re masks – one even told me that the police will fine me (What? I am exempt). Been shopping with them for 16 years, never to go back again. Signed up with Ocado – what a pleasure and lots of specials.

161544 ▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Victoria, 4, #414 of 2057 🔗

did you tell them why? I gave the waitrose guard and evil stare and told him I was exempt and he said “ok then”, but maybe I got a particularly passive one.

I am thinking of making stickers saying “Exemptions apply” and sticking them all over the shop posters that say “No mask, no sale” etc

161706 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sophie123, #415 of 2057 🔗

And don’t forget those who don’t even mention exemptions.

161609 ▶▶ Mutineer, replying to Chicot, #416 of 2057 🔗

Not one trial has ever shown masks to be effective for the public. Not one. In fact, when the pandemic was severe in March and April the advice was not to wear them. The WHO said the same. Strangely, after the pandemic had ended the Govt suddenly changed their position. Based on what? No new trials. Nothing. They leant on the WHO to change their advice based on absolutely nothing. Masks are a visible sign of compliance and, my God, how the Stasi public love them. I wear an exemption and get pointed at and abused. If the Govt suggested kiss me quick hats and red noses I can imagine the rush to buy them! The old and sick are being culled and how the public love it and all in the name of ‘protecting’ them. All healthcare has ended. What the hell do they expect if the NHS is closed for business?

160883 NonCompliant, replying to NonCompliant, 20, #417 of 2057 🔗

Just skimming the site now, I feel there’s little point in reading anything in detail after the first few sentences, just more Groundhog Day.

  1. Politician, Media Pundit, Scientist claims we’re all going to die etc.
  2. Toby reassures us it’s nonsense, points to evidence to the contrary like we didn’t know already.
  3. Real Life tales of living under a Dictatorship

Rinse and repeat…

Seems Simon Dolan is the only game in town doesn’t it? I’m not sure Lozza Fox is going to take up the charge.

Cashing my lockdownsceptics chips in, it’s been informative for a while but reading the same old, same old every single day just makes me more and more angry and frustrated. Feels like Toby is waiting for someone wearing their underpants over their trousers to do the job for him rather than help get things going.

Good luck everyone, I think we’re going to need it and in spades too.

160887 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to NonCompliant, 12, #418 of 2057 🔗

I feel the same to a large extent. I think we need to meet fellow sceptics in person and plan disruptive peaceful actions. What’s your plan?

161158 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tee Ell, 3, #419 of 2057 🔗

Local KBF group – that’s exactly what they do.

161238 ▶▶▶▶ takeme, replying to JohnB, #420 of 2057 🔗

Didn’t know about this orgainsation. How does one go about finding a local group? (I don’t do faceb00k)

161309 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to takeme, 2, #421 of 2057 🔗

Is Simon Dolan’s organisation.


Go to community, then forum, then kbf local. Eventually you should find a group near you. 🙂

160965 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to NonCompliant, 2, #422 of 2057 🔗

I find it hard to argue with you on this.

Before you depart, are there any ideas you feel like sharing on the “Psy ops for the greater good” thread in General Discussion? I’m feeling a little disheartened that nobody has replied, given the obvious strength of feeling on this forum.

160966 ▶▶ stewart, replying to NonCompliant, 7, #423 of 2057 🔗

Have felt the same on several occasions.
Resistance is a grind.
There is no question that resistance is growing as is dissent in the media.
This site has contributed by being a bastion and at one point one of very few dissenting voices.

160999 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to NonCompliant, 7, #424 of 2057 🔗

I hardly think it’s fair to blame this site for creating feelings of Groundhog Day. That’s all around us and without the relentless pushback of sceptical opinion, I don’t know where we’d be.
Take a break, go for a walk or hang glide or something.

161721 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to PoshPanic, #425 of 2057 🔗

Well said PP.
This site is an important counter to the official narrative.

NC, I hope you find a group you can do something more active with because that’s clearly the point you’ve reached and you mustn’t lose momentum.

161152 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to NonCompliant, 2, #426 of 2057 🔗

Find your local KBF group, NC.

160886 Jules, replying to Jules, 13, #427 of 2057 🔗

With Hartlepool and Middlesborough about to go into lockdown, there is pretty clearly new fuel for the old North/South divide debate to be reignited. If I was from “up north” I would be pretty angry by now. Vote for the Tories for the first time and get shat on from a great height by southern toffs. I sense a righteous wrath fomenting.

160903 ▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to Jules, 13, #428 of 2057 🔗

I am extremely angry but Labour, the supposed party of the working class, adores lockdown and even asks for it.
Nick Forbes absolutely deserved Boris’s dig at him at PMQs. The sanctimonious prat has just bankrupted his city.

160939 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Jules, 3, #429 of 2057 🔗

The much used phrase “Up North” just shows how we are thought of. The ‘Up’ suggests some ‘other’ place, that isn’t ‘like us’. About seven eighths of the UK population do not live in London, but we count for fuck all. Those ‘southern toffs’ don’t even know what it’s like to get rained on, let alone live a real life.

161017 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #430 of 2057 🔗

I’m a southerner (not a Londoner or a toff) but it’s true we don’t know what it’s like to be rained on (it’s great)! The train fares and house prices can fair make your eyes water though. Either way the “North” does seem to be being extra shafted at the moment although London has the wrath of Khan to deal with so swings and roundabouts.

161055 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Sam Vimes, 5, #431 of 2057 🔗

Blame your Labour councils, I’ve got relatives up there and they are telling me their councils are asking for the lockdown’s.

161058 ▶▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #432 of 2057 🔗

Course they are council staff will be at home on full pay.

161328 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #433 of 2057 🔗

A lot of us don’t have Labour councils any more 😉
But yes, you’re right. Leeds is most notable.

161733 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Dan Clarke, #434 of 2057 🔗

Yes, the local councils should be pilloried.

161546 ▶▶▶ Willow, replying to Sam Vimes, #435 of 2057 🔗

But “up north” don’t you say “down south”? I am vaguely middle and I say both!!

161046 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Jules, 3, #436 of 2057 🔗

Apparently its the Labour councils asking for the lockdown’s, revenge on their inhabitants for voting Tory?

161325 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Jules, #437 of 2057 🔗

They’ve already lost the Red Wall again for sure, god knows who to, but even if they pull Brexit off people round here will tell them to fuck

161724 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jules, #438 of 2057 🔗

Oh we’re angry all right!

160890 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #439 of 2057 🔗

Later this evening I think an e-mail to all the MPs who voted No yesterday will new written.

Looking at the list of them I did not think I would ever be thanking some of them for standing ups or me, how things change.

I even agreed, for they rest time ever, with some of the stuff in the Liberal’s political broadcast yesterday evening – shock horror.

160954 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #440 of 2057 🔗

Already written to mine, who was in agreement with the Brady amendment but now according to twitter thinks the ‘assurances’ from Hancock are enough. They are pathetic, all of them

160892 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 1, #441 of 2057 🔗

Apple Store in Trafford centre closed due to Corona Virus cases

Health and safety measures put in place since reopening include mandatory face coverings , health and temperature checks for both employees and customers, new store operations to ensure 2m distancing and daily and nightly deep disinfection of its stores.

But all measures help!?

160931 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sarigan, 7, #442 of 2057 🔗

It’s all theatre.Apple has some of the most draconian “safety” policies and this goes to show that none of these measures work.

160952 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Sarigan, 9, #443 of 2057 🔗

To quote from the Late Night Business Operator:

If the masks work, lockdowns work, and curfews work, why the hell are we here?

161745 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sarigan, #444 of 2057 🔗

People won’t be able to upgrade their old iphones to use the magical new app!

162698 ▶▶ DomW, replying to Sarigan, #445 of 2057 🔗

This calls for…

160893 Caroline Watson, replying to Caroline Watson, 14, #446 of 2057 🔗

This is no longer a health emergency; it is a culture war. The Shadow Education Secretary’s comment about not letting a good crisis go to waste said it all.
The hapless and incompetent Johnson and Hancock are being totally manipulated by the public sector unions, particularly the BMA. Its website sets out its priorities – patients don’t appear to feature! In effect, it is working to rule.

The public sector unions, aided by a considerable proportion of the Labour Party, BLM, the Guardian and the BBC, are using the crisis as a way of bringing down the government and stopping Brexit. The deaths of so many BAME health workers early on gave them a huge weapon and the BLM protests gave them the means to use it. Starmer was talking sense about a lockdown exit strategy early on, but never mentioned it after his cringing knee-taking.

The working class people who are losing their jobs and small businesses as a result of lockdowns are collateral damage to the public sector middle class left. The more Cromwellian of them would like to close down working class activities, such as pubs, football and package holidays for ever – ‘so much better for the environment‘, and bring in the Universal Basic Handout. And the most obsessive Remainers have ceased to see the white working class as human.

It would be interesting to submit either Freedom of Information Requests (which take a long time) or Parliamentary Questions via one of the rebel MPs to ask some specific questions about the current working of the NHS; in particular the number of staff relocated from front line work because of the result of risk assessments and the number who have refused to work, over a given period, because of a perceived lack of PPE or other risk.

The railway unions used to practise ‘working to rule’ where the full BR safety instructions were carried out and, as a result, trains didn’t move. It would appear that the unions in the NHS, and in schools and universities, are doing the same. Patients and students are, like workers, collateral damage.

160922 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Caroline Watson, 2, #447 of 2057 🔗

As far as I am aware my union, the Royal College of Nursing are not working to rule as you call it. I have been working throughout. I cannot be certain but I am sure that my colleagues in secondary care continued to work.

160982 ▶▶ Jakehadlee, replying to Caroline Watson, 1, #448 of 2057 🔗

If that’s their plan (and I doubt it, not least as I don’t think they would know how to pull it off if it were) then they are going about it a funny way. Almost certainly the effect of all this will be to creat further division and alienation of the majority working and lower middle classes who still, for now at least, live in a democracy and hold the key to government. That’s why the Tories won the last election, and why they will now get rid of Boris and go more to the right and win the next one too.

Not great news either way, but that’s the way we (and the world) is heading. The left has abandoned its post in pursuit of an illiterate and divisive ideology and left the field to the right.

161130 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Caroline Watson, 1, #449 of 2057 🔗

NHS’s problem is having to operate the insane social distancing rules introduced by this government, hence its reduced capacity. Your analysis is entirely misconceived.

161766 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bruno, 1, #450 of 2057 🔗

Partly the problem. Doesn’t explain the surgeons consulting by phone, does it?
And it certainly doesn’t excuse the patient-phobic GPs when we know some of their colleagues are doing their job properly.

The working class are clearly collateral damage, but to much more sinister and powerful groups than the middle class.

160896 snippet, 5, #451 of 2057 🔗

Remember the Iraq body count project ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Body_Count_project )?

Is anyone keeping a lockdown death count?

When this comes to a public enquiry, trials for manslaughter and treason, and the rest, it might be useful.

160899 MizakeTheMizan, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 9, #452 of 2057 🔗

Yesterday I received an email from Sheffield City Council to say that they have just opened a new Covid testing site in Burngreave, making five in total.

The testing sites are in Sharrow, Darnall, Meadowhall, Burngreave and Broomhall (all pretty deprived areas).

I take this to mean that they hoping to find an excuse to lockdown the city.

161078 ▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 2, #453 of 2057 🔗

Completely agree, I read it the same way. Why oh why though do people keep going for tests?, can they not see what they are doing?. I don’t know why I keep asking these rhetorical questions, there I go again, using the word why. I seem to spend my whole time asking questions that no one can really answer, this country is now completely insane.

161261 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Mrs issedoff, 3, #454 of 2057 🔗

Like the meat processing place in Cornwall. All staff tested after 1 became “ill” as part of T&T. BBC reported most of them were not aware they had the virus as no symptoms. BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HAVE THE VIRUS!
How come it is always meat processing factories? When it happened in Germany for the first time, some doctors said Corona viruses are common in cattle, so it would be in the atmosphere.

161319 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Silke David, 3, #455 of 2057 🔗

Cold refrigerated unventilated atmosphere (virus survives longer on surfaces etc.).
High density workforce, working close together etc. – lots of contact with each other and surfaces/tools.

Basically it’s an extension of the noco….somial transfer thing.

161777 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mrs issedoff, #456 of 2057 🔗

Some are sent and have no choice.
Some see it as their “civic duty” – they’re idiots.
As for the others, they’ve literally been scared witless and lost their limited capacity for critical thinking.

161189 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 1, #457 of 2057 🔗

Template since Leicester and the reason I changed my mind from cock up to conspiracy

160905 zacaway, replying to zacaway, 15, #458 of 2057 🔗

I see Boris couldn’t even be bothered to vote for the extension of the Coronavirus Act, along with most of the Labour party:

Credit to Lib Dems for actually standing up for liberal democracy.

160913 ▶▶ Jules, replying to zacaway, 2, #459 of 2057 🔗

But that will only be because they knew their votes would not affect the outcome!

161003 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to zacaway, #460 of 2057 🔗

They will have been paired. Standard practice.

161006 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to zacaway, #461 of 2057 🔗

Isn’t it common for the Cabinet not to vote on things?

161781 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #462 of 2057 🔗

Is it?

161780 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to zacaway, #463 of 2057 🔗

Significant that most of the Cabinet abstained.

160912 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 16, #464 of 2057 🔗

I see Boris did it again:

BORIS Johnson told Brits tonight they can’t “throw in the sponge” in the fight against coronavirus now “no matter how impatient or fed up” we are with strict rules and restrictions.

I’m surprised more hasn’t been made of this. Boris is suggesting that in his mind, the consequences of his measures are likely to be nothing more than a feeling of ‘impatience’ and being ‘fed up’. So is this really what he wants to say to the person who has lost their job? Or the one whose operation is delayed? Or the student who has paid out £9000 to live in a prison? Etc.

That he could utter those words shows that he really has lost the plot. And of course, it is immediately reminiscent of this piece in LS:

160919 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Barney McGrew, 11, #465 of 2057 🔗

Of course the irony is that it is Boris and his cronies who threw in the sponge (towel?) by running and hiding from the virus rather than dealing with it properly like intelligent grown-ups.

160950 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Achilles, 3, #466 of 2057 🔗

Yes, even I sometimes forget that: we get drawn onto their territory, arguing over details of The Science when we should not even be in this position to start with.

161054 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Achilles, 1, #467 of 2057 🔗

How can he have attended Eton and yet still get that wrong, ie say ‘sponge’ instead of ‘towel’????

It’s the same image in Swedish too, ‘kasta in handduken’..

161096 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Carrie, 1, #468 of 2057 🔗

Gordon Brown didn’t understand Moral Compass despite having attended Kirkcaldy High School and being a son of the manse.

Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and run with patience the race that is set before us, …

160928 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #469 of 2057 🔗

It is exactly like fighting the Nazis. No different at all. Repel the invasion.

162267 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Barney McGrew, #470 of 2057 🔗

This is a Trump tactic and people are falling for it again. Throw in a malapropism and let everyone lose their minds about that rather than staying focused on the issue in hand.

160924 Oliver Ford, replying to Oliver Ford, 5, #471 of 2057 🔗

Boris has a Winston Churchill Complex (like many politicians) but one based on a false analogy – comparing a virus (a tiny bit of genetic material) to evil humans like Hitler and the other Axis leaders (who have conscious intentions). So there’s “fight on the beaches” language to defeat an invisible enemy, etc. Constant comparisons to World War 2.

But a virus can’t be fought against or defeated like an army can. You can’t win the struggle against viruses because they constantly mutate. There’ll be new strains of coronavirus and related orders of viruses forever. Never will we “win”. The virus isn’t led by a corona-Hitler, who can eventually commit suicide to be replaced by a corona-Doenitz who’ll surrender! Analogies to human wars don’t apply at all.

If lockdown is justifiable in this “struggle” it’s justifiable forever because there will always be new strains of viruses. This winter a new flu strain will appear somewhat resistant to our vaccines, and SARS-COV-2 will mutate to be resistant to any vaccines currently under development. Viruses are something we have to live with, “fighting” them is always going to be an endless game of whac-a-mole.

The best way to live with them is to help the population become as healthy as possible. Boris started on that track by encouraging people to lose weight, yet now he’s going back to locking us down again in a futile struggle to “defeat” something which will be around as long as life exists.

161077 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Oliver Ford, 3, #472 of 2057 🔗

Camus’s The Plage is an analogy of the various responses of people under the Vichy regime to the plague of Fascism. I’m sure, after reading it recently, that Cummings has read it recently too but (of course) taken the wrong message from it.

What’s natural is the microbe. All the rest health, integrity, purity (if you like) is a product of the human will, of a vigilance that must never falter. The good man, the man who infects hardly anyone, is the man who has the fewest lapses of attention.

All I maintain is that on this earth there are pestilences and there are victims and it’s up to us, so far as possible, not to join forces with the pestilences.

161182 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Oliver Ford, 1, #473 of 2057 🔗

Maybe the churchillian analogy is correct but not in the way Boris thinks.
Churchill was so single minded in his aim to defeat Germany that he bankrupted the country and made us America’s client state,a position we have been in ever since.

161788 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Oliver Ford, 1, #474 of 2057 🔗

Reading your post puts me in mind of the constant mutating of the covid “guidelines”.

160929 Achilles, replying to Achilles, #475 of 2057 🔗

I have to go for a meal on Saturday (no choice) and I think I may need the app to get entry. So can someone tell me how I can get around this? Can I just put fake details in to the app or is it simply based on the location of the phone? In which case can I just delete the app as soon as I’ve gone in?

160942 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Achilles, 6, #476 of 2057 🔗

I don’t think the app is a requirement. Just say either you don’t have a smartphone or it is not compatible. I think they are still required to provide the manual T&T details some other way though.

160962 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Achilles, 3, #477 of 2057 🔗

Don’t have a phone.

161045 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, #478 of 2057 🔗

I’m wondering how long it will be before Covid marshalls are given the right to search people to check that they are truly not carrying a phone on them?

161110 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Carrie, 1, #479 of 2057 🔗

Doubt there’ll be many of those (Covid marshals) until central govt give local govt the money to pay for them. Which they aren’t, at the moment.

161173 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Carrie, #480 of 2057 🔗

Try never.

161814 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #481 of 2057 🔗

My phone won’t run the app anyway.

160971 ▶▶ Suzyv, replying to Achilles, 4, #482 of 2057 🔗

As said by others the downloading of the App is only one option. You are still entitled to write down details. Many people don’t have a smart phone. If they insist, point out that the Government Regulations are clear on this and they are wrong.

160978 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Achilles, 7, #483 of 2057 🔗

Insist on manual (paper) details. Only the ‘lead member’ of the group is required to provide them, anyway (pub may insist otherwise). So another member could use their phone on behalf of all of you, but I would avoid giving real details or being with someone who does – it can all lead back to you and then it’s 14 day isolation, £1000 fine etc.

False name. No phone. Pay cash.

161311 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Sam Vimes, #484 of 2057 🔗

Also block T&T phone number (0300…. Something). So if the lead member of your party was honest, they won’t be able to tell you to isolate anyway.

And if they can’t tell you, you never knew…..

160997 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Achilles, 1, #485 of 2057 🔗

Install the dummy app

161007 ▶▶▶ Ozzie, replying to leggy, #486 of 2057 🔗

Have you got a link?

161087 ▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Ozzie, #487 of 2057 🔗

It’s in today’s and yesterday’s comments somewhere.

161093 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Ozzie, 1, #488 of 2057 🔗
161056 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to leggy, 1, #489 of 2057 🔗

Significant penalties apparently.

161084 ▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #490 of 2057 🔗

Where have you seen that?

161237 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to leggy, #491 of 2057 🔗

I think one of the MPs published it on Twitter, saying it was not acceptable to change the law late at night so that businesses could in a matter of hours be in breach of laws they had no knowledge of – and get fined for this.

161830 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 1, #492 of 2057 🔗

Mark Harper on Monday.
Quoted from Hansard:

The regulations, which came into force at midnight last night and which were only published, or made, at five o’clock yesterday, contain some very serious powers that were not in the statements made to Parliament last week. ….. There are duties that are put on employers that create criminal offences both for the company and for individual managers in that company. I do not know how many businesses in this country are aware of the fact that these duties have now just landed on them—I would hazard very few.

…. Those are all questions that no one in this House has been able to ask a Minister, because the regulations came into force last night. They have to be debated within 28 days, but that could be a month away and it could happen after they have been amended several times, as we have seen with other regulations. I do not think that is the right way to make the criminal law and introduce important sanctions in a democracy.

161824 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to leggy, #493 of 2057 🔗

It’s the same as beeing caught giving false details.

161272 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Achilles, #494 of 2057 🔗

Sounds like you will part of a group of up to 6. The person organising this has probably booked a table and given their details. The restaurant does not need to take the details of EVERY person in that group.
As long as they have 1 persons details, it is enough. It is expected the person who booked knows your contact details and will give your details to T&T if needed.

161493 ▶▶ Willow, replying to Achilles, #495 of 2057 🔗

Or download the fake version

161813 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Achilles, #496 of 2057 🔗

The law says that it’s still acceptable to give your details on paper. Not everyone has a suitable phone.

160935 mjr, replying to mjr, 22, #497 of 2057 🔗

over the past months there have been many complaints on here about how officious the National Trust have been in enforcing petty guidelines to the point that many members on here have told them where to stick their memberships.
Just noticing this morning, they are obviously struggling now as they have started a tv advertising campaign soliciting donations
A lot of charities are struggling but for the NT it is self inflicted

160938 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to mjr, 13, #498 of 2057 🔗

Serves them right

160949 ▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to mjr, 14, #499 of 2057 🔗

Get woke, go broke.

161521 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 1, #500 of 2057 🔗

Unfortunately, I think it’s a xanatos gambit. Either the woke fifth columnists succeed in brainwashing people or they collapse the institution they see as evil. It’s a no lose strategy.

The apolitical members of the trust will simply have to rue that they ignored the warnings.

161615 ▶▶ Mutineer, replying to mjr, 1, #501 of 2057 🔗

Cancelled my long term membership and rang and told them why at great length.

161727 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to mjr, 1, #502 of 2057 🔗

No sympathy for them and shan’t shed any tears for them when they go bust.

160936 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 2, #503 of 2057 🔗

So are they steady or are they rapid? You can’t have both. They are steady , of course, which is why he said it first, before realising he was supposed to be justifying extreme interventions so quickly added “rapid”.

You’re better than this. Why are you playing word games?
He said “steady and rapid pace”. They are not mutually exclusive. “Steady pace”: the pace is constant. “Rapid pace”: the pace is high. In other words: “A pace that is at a constant, fast value”.
They’re playing word games and are basing their entire strategy on confusion. Let’s not play the same game, shall we?

160970 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 1, #504 of 2057 🔗

valid but also open to interpretation. If someone told me to walk at a steady pace i would interpret that as not walking too fast and not walking too slow. And if i was told to walk at a steady and rapid pace i would be confused. Like the initial comment i would also understand “steady” in this context as a description of speed
What you are talking about and you mention it yourself is a “constant pace”. I could quite understand if i was told to move at a constant and rapid pace.
The confusion is caused by looking at strict definitions and the difference between this and common usage

161043 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 1, #505 of 2057 🔗

“Steady as she goes” is not “Full steam ahead”.

160937 stewart, replying to stewart, 21, #506 of 2057 🔗

So according to Boris Johnson the measures aren’t working because we don’t follow the rules. And now he claims we are all a bunch of over-reacting, gloomsters dragging the economy down.

It’s not that his measures don’t do jack to “control” the virus. And it’s not that his measures are wrecking the economy. It’s all our fault actually.

This guy is unbelievable.

160940 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to stewart, 14, #507 of 2057 🔗

To simplify. Good News = governments success. Bad news = publics fault. This politics is easy innit?

160988 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to stewart, 7, #508 of 2057 🔗

Isn’t this a sign of psychopathy? Ruin the victim or victims’ life/lives and then blame them?

161020 ▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to wendyk, 6, #509 of 2057 🔗

It’s called gaslighting.

161060 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to mattghg, 3, #510 of 2057 🔗

I’ve been gaslighted on several occasions, but isn’t there an underlying psychopathic component?

Perhaps Alpine could enlighten us.

161856 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to wendyk, #511 of 2057 🔗

Definitely psychopathic. Which sums up several members of the Cabinet.

However, the Behavioural Insights Team are responsible for orchestrating the u-turn policies and confusing announcements. Surely you must be a psychopath to want to make that your speciality?

160992 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to stewart, 6, #512 of 2057 🔗

This is the start of the end of the conservatives

161040 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Victoria, #513 of 2057 🔗

But I don’t think they have realised it yet!

161314 ▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Victoria, #514 of 2057 🔗

Yes but where is the new party required to replace them? Is Dolan going to start one I wonder?

161488 ▶▶▶▶ Willow, replying to charleyfarley, #515 of 2057 🔗

If you want an actual conservative party it has to be this one

161018 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to stewart, 1, #516 of 2057 🔗

The collective farm hasn’t produced its monthly output quota because of saboteurs.

161735 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to stewart, #517 of 2057 🔗

Its like abuse isn’t it? The government blames the people and even insinuating that we’re responsible for what’s happening.

Time for the public to say enough is enough and that the government can go take a hike.

160958 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #518 of 2057 🔗

A strangely ambiguous report appears today in edinburghlive. NB ‘They’ is used in the article to refer to the singular person.

“Edinburgh student with kidney damage due to coronavirus crowdfunding to pay fees” [course fees]

“A student is raising money to pay fees and cover costs after being left with kidney damage from COVID caught while attending lessons at Edinburgh University, they said.”

“Kerry Rush previously spoke to Edinburgh Live about how they had been left with drastically reduced kidney function following a bout of suspected COVID which they got after attending lectures, despite voicing concerns that being make to attend would make them sick.”

“A bout of suspected COVID” – strangely uncertain language is it not?

“Now Kerry says the health issues have left them physically unable to cope, meanwhile university is pursuing them for unpaid fees, so fellow students have come together to started a crowdfunder to help meet those costs.”

“The doctors said to me in the hospital ‘when you were here in June we genuinely didn’t know if you were going to live or die’ because no one in the department has ever seen what happened to my kidneys before. They don’t have any more answers.”

Never seen before issues with kidneys.

160977 ▶▶ Liam, replying to Basics, 3, #519 of 2057 🔗

In June? The universities all closed in March!

161000 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Basics, 1, #520 of 2057 🔗

Baffling. I heard a story from a friend who attends a running club with a guy who tells a story also of that nature. The Man works in a care home. He was off work with some issue, bed bound for a time. So he went back to work and a couple of weeks later tested positive for Covid-19.

Now he is positing updates on social media saying that he never thought he’d be able to run again and it’s great he’s completed his first 10k since his ‘battle with COVID-19’

He was never tested when he said he had covid, only after he recovered and was back at work. He is tested every two weeks in work and results negative every time since.

161012 ▶▶▶ Roadrash, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 4, #521 of 2057 🔗

Just an attention seeker. Have a neighbour who made a drama out of self isolating. He loved it but made it sound like he had just spent two weeks in the trenches

161013 ▶▶▶ Liam, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 8, #522 of 2057 🔗

Attention seeking. The endless self dramatisation of soshul meeja.

161364 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Liam, 1, #523 of 2057 🔗

Yeah it’s toxic stuff.

161038 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 2, #524 of 2057 🔗

Is ‘they’ because ‘Kerry’ is a protected minority and can therefore not be criticised or challenged without the person doing the challenging being prosecuted for hate speech? Note it’s in Scotland…

161081 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Carrie, 2, #525 of 2057 🔗

Woke speak is strangling the language.

161860 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, #526 of 2057 🔗

Kidney problems can be caused by a cytokine storm.
However, the article smells like complete bollox to me.

162779 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, #527 of 2057 🔗

The ventilators sometimes damage kidneys which is why getting loads of them suddenly went out of fashion.

160961 petgor, replying to petgor, 14, #528 of 2057 🔗

Whilst I have never regarded ambulance chasing solicitors or so-called claims farmers with much pleasure, I can see that the government might well have left itself open to an attack by these people.

Someone on the council in Preston made a remark some time ago, to the effect about young people killing their grannies by their irresponsible actions. Bearing in mind that by this governments actions (by putting the NHS on hold) death and serious injury to health will have been caused or exacerbated by the loss to the population of the NHS, I am now beginning to warm to the idea of causing maximum embarrassment to this government or at least to those making the decisions without listening to other voices, even though it’s us the taxpayer who will ultimately pick up the bill.

It seems to me that people will and have died as a result of this Covid centric NHS’s non-performance. Other people who have failed to receive medical treatment may well suffer for the rest of their lives. I would guess that a good lawyer with good expert medical backup might find this to be a new, very rewarding source of litigation.

If someone isn’t tested because testing has been put on hold, and they discover that they have say, n advanced breast or prostate cancer, then the NHS thanks to the governments actions, will be guilty of negligence – or so I would have thought. Similarly, if a bread winner in a family dies, then the family should, again I would gave thought, be compensated. Negligence by omission rather than commission?

This scenario might seem or even be far fetched but once we get to the end of this ridiculous situation in which the government has placed us, there will be a reckoning. A reckoning of actions which has placed this country into what might compare to the debt caused by WW2.

Because I am over a certain age, I am screened every two years for bowel cancer. It is my intention to write to the NHS screening service to enquire whether, if the result is positive, the NHS is geared up to treat me once the cancer has been discovered, or will I have to wait until the Covid scare

160991 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to petgor, 2, #529 of 2057 🔗

Great post!

161049 ▶▶ mjr, replying to petgor, 3, #530 of 2057 🔗

I was done last year so the NHS wont need to take a faecal sample from me until next year ,

In the meantime they have spent this year taking the piss

161107 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to petgor, #531 of 2057 🔗

Did they cover themselves in the Coronavirus Act, them and the medical profession?

161627 ▶▶▶ petgor, replying to Dan Clarke, #532 of 2057 🔗

If they did then any credibility that they have retained, and that isn’t much judging by this site’s cocommentators, would be completely lost.

160986 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to arfurmo, 1, #534 of 2057 🔗

Current single rhymes “this cruel disease” with “bought PPE” or some such. Been turning radio off if it comes on.

161005 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to arfurmo, 5, #535 of 2057 🔗

Wait until they get the vaccine that will be some real Bad Medicine.

161022 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to arfurmo, 2, #536 of 2057 🔗

Never did like bon Jovi.

161052 ▶▶ peter, replying to arfurmo, 3, #537 of 2057 🔗

The CDC reduced the toll down to 9,000. This is some seriously snide fake propaganda.

160975 Antonedes, replying to Antonedes, 15, #538 of 2057 🔗

Overall, a large majority of Britons say they are very likely or certain that they will follow government guidelines

If Covid restrictions are so well supported why do they need to be legally enforced?

161019 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Antonedes, 2, #539 of 2057 🔗

Oh now don’t try reason or logic regarding these COVID shenanigans.

161101 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Antonedes, 2, #540 of 2057 🔗


160981 Liam, replying to Liam, 36, #541 of 2057 🔗

My daughter has a cold. Can everyone please stay indoors for a year? I suspect one of you broke lockdown and inflicted the horror of a runny nose on her.

160994 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Liam, 9, #542 of 2057 🔗

I managed to get a cold from some of my students and have spent the last three days off (asthma kicked in). Many of them are sneezing and blowing their noses every couple of minutes. Six months away from school has diminished their immune systems (and mine). I am sure that wearing face masks in public (indoor) spaces in the school doesn’t help.

One student, in a different part of the school, was diagnosed with COVID, but was asymptomatic and had been tested as part of the Imperial College study. Outcome – the whole year group and teacher have been sent into isolation for 14 days.

161875 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ozzie, #543 of 2057 🔗


160984 chaos, 9, #544 of 2057 🔗

This corrupt worthless bag of womanizing plop can’t even get his metaphors right. You throw in the towell in boxing and MMA, not the sponge. A 56 year old man with a 32 year old XR arts grad posho liberal tree hugger.. she has his ear at night.. 56 and 32.. he’s somewhat retarded.. a man-child.. Bill Gates also has his ear and Prince Charles and Davos.. in their naive little world He and Giant Shitts (aka Sebastion Fox aka Michael Green) think they are going to be thanked for creating a green utopia…

160985 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 30, #545 of 2057 🔗

Just returned from trip to Morrison’s; a truly dismal experience.

I’m now the sole bare faced person in the entire place, apart from a few till ladies.

The female half of a smartly dressed couple attempted a disapproving look as I approached her, but thought better of it when she saw my badge.

There is a surreal decidedly dysfunctional air about the place now; thoroughly disturbing and unsettling: an elderly bloke stood back to let me pass and when I thanked him,he just stared,totally expressionless..

What kind of a society is it where mass gagging destroys all normal day to day encounters and leaves the few who don’t mask up feeling like criminals?

Home deliveries are a bit too costly for my budget, so I’ll keep going.

Should anyone try to challenge me I’ll use the ‘hate crime’ warning; much as I despise it , it could come in useful.

Finally, my pal who does the weekly walk with me, is now worried that she might be reported because we shared a harmless cup of coffee in her home 2 days ago.

My sanity and my self control are on the edge.

Posted again form late entry on yesterday’s page.

161015 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to wendyk, 5, #546 of 2057 🔗

Regarding home deliveries look at the supermarkets mid week slots or late in the day they are often cheaper and sometimes free.

161035 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to KBuchanan, 2, #547 of 2057 🔗

Thank you

161117 ▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to KBuchanan, #548 of 2057 🔗

Also you can usually amend up to the day before

161036 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to wendyk, 4, #549 of 2057 🔗

I do Tesco at 6am, another example of ‘mission-based shopping’ that is destroying retail. Anyway, at that time of the morning it’s just the staff unpacking boxes and a few tradesmen buying their Lucozades and crisps.

161044 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to jhfreedom, #550 of 2057 🔗

I usually do the 7am trip, but had to wait in for a delivery today.

7am from now on though.

161885 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to jhfreedom, #551 of 2057 🔗

Aldi at 7.30pm for me.

160993 Paul, replying to Paul, #552 of 2057 🔗

I’ve finally received a reply from my MP,it’s obviously a standard reply he sends to everyone and doesn’t answer my email to him,here it is in it’s full splendour part 1,

‘Thank you very much for contacting me about the emergency legislation relating to the Government’s response to coronavirus.

I know this is a matter that is very important to a number of people and understandably I have received a large number of emails and letters with a wide variety of views. As such, I will now seek to provide a detailed overview of what the Bill before the House is about.

It is easy to come to the conclusion by seeing what is coming out in the media, that the legislation being put forward is to solely impose further restrictions on our daily lives and while this forms a part of the legislation it is not the entire purpose of it.

It is important to recognise that one of the the key aspects of the Act is to ensure that sufficient staff are available for our health and social care workforce, and to ensure they are deployed where they are most needed. As well as supporting members of the public, containing and slowing the virus, and provisions for managing the deceased with respect and dignity.

To elaborate further on this, the Secretary of State highlighted that this legislation removes barriers to allow suitably experienced people, such as recently retired NHS staff and social workers to return to work. This can also include (but will not be limited to) students who are near the end of their training. Registered staff can then be used appropriately, with decisions made on a local basis.

It also allows the government to support agencies and services that contribute to, and/or are dependent on, the public health response. Some of the provisions, for example those that support the business assistance schemes, are vital to ensure the economic wellbeing of people affected by lockdown, which in turn contributes to people’s longer-term health. This includes (but will not be limited to) the power to temporarily suspend the rule that means Statuary Sick Pay (SSP) is not paid for the first 3 days and the power to establish a rebate scheme for employers to reclaim SSP paid for sickness absences relating to COVID-19 during the period of the pandemic. Others, in particular the highly successful changes to the ways of working of the Courts and Tribunal Service, have enabled vital public services to carry on in a Covid secure way.

These particular measures are still very much necessary to ensure we continue to have the means to combat this virus as evident by recent increases.

The areas of contention are of course surrounding the continuing of restrictions and interventions by the Government. As many of those who have contacted me previously about this will know, I am not an advocate of state control or interventions on our daily lives, but given the unprecedented nature of this crisis, I reluctantly supported the measures which did help bring the virus under control as well provided invaluable financial support to millions, particularly in our constituency.

As infection rates decreased, the Government began easing restrictions and this helped to boost our economy as businesses could once again open up. I strongly supported these measures, including the winding down of some of the financial support schemes. It should go without saying that while these financial support measures were helpful in a time of acute crisis, we must look to the long-term sustainability of our public finances and as such it is right that we draw down as quickly and as carefully as possible.

We are fortunate that the UK has a strong and resilient economy, which is why the Government was able to introduce the robust support packages that it did, but again, I do agree with many who have raised concerns about the long term impact of these measures.’

part 2 to follow

161030 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Paul, 1, #553 of 2057 🔗

‘allow suitably experienced people, such as recently retired NHS staff and social workers to return to work. This can also include (but will not be limited to) students who are near the end of their training. Registered staff can then be used appropriately, with decisions made on a local basis’

You might be interested to know that Sweden did something similar to this.. Also to at least the first part of this (not sure about the second part, ie the reclaim part):

‘to temporarily suspend the rule that means Statuary Sick Pay (SSP) is not paid for the first 3 days and the power to establish a rebate scheme for employers to reclaim SSP paid for sickness absences relating to COVID-19 during the period of the pandemic’

161086 ▶▶ Ed Phillips, replying to Paul, 5, #554 of 2057 🔗

“provisions for managing the deceased with respect and dignity.”

This sentence makes my blood boil. He speaks of respect and dignity in the same sentence as “managing”.
This is the comment of someone who has no humanity whatsoever. Someone’s death is not something to be “managed”.

I wish I could express something more eloquent but I’m struggling here…

161263 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Ed Phillips, 1, #555 of 2057 🔗

Perhaps the phrase you’re looking for is “Fuck ’em !”, Ed ?

160995 Paul, replying to Paul, #556 of 2057 🔗

Part 2 of my MP’s reply,

‘As with any contentious decision this Government makes, there will always be a second opinion and it is important that the Government takes these views into account while also being able to act swiftly to preserve life.

While these measures in the Coronavirus Act are temporary, the Government has stated that they will only be used when strictly necessary, and only be in place for as long as required to respond to the situation. All measures in this Act are subject to review on a six monthly basis to ensure that they remain appropriate.

It is clear that the virus will be with us for some time, and so I am in agreement with a number of colleagues that we cannot simply hold out for a vaccine to come by any time soon, despite there being considerable and promising progress, we must take pragmatic steps to ensure we can continue on with our daily lives.

Nobody wants to go back to the scale of lockdown we had in March and the Government has consistently ruled this out. Arguably we are in a much better position than we were back in March. Treatment for the virus has improved considerably and as we have seen with recent figures, despite positive infections increasing, the number of hospitalisations have remained low, as have deaths. But of course it would not be right to simply let the virus take hold with greater prevalence.

I do not for one moment envy the Governments position on this and the fine balancing act it has to perform between those who want tougher restrictions (I have many contacting me about this) and those who want less restrictions.

However for the reasons outlined above, the Coronavirus Act is not just about restrictions, but a broad piece of legislation aimed at providing support for our health and social care sectors and ensure they continue to have the staff necessary to tackle this pandemic.

Rest assured though that I and other colleagues who have expressed concerns about the Government restrictions have been in regular contact with Ministers and our Whips. On Monday morning, I joined a number of MPs in a virtual meeting with the Health Secretary to discuss the Act. Contrary to how it appears in the media, Ministers are actively engaging with backbench MPs on this and have had regular meetings outside of the House of Commons chamber to allow members the chance to share their views on behalf of constituents.

I will continue to monitor this and scrutinise the steps the Government is taking. I appreciate you taking the time to contact me.

With best wishes,


Gareth Davies MP
Member of Parliament
Grantham and Stamford’

161199 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to Paul, #557 of 2057 🔗

What a load of bollocks….they are trolling you now!

161002 davews, 20, #558 of 2057 🔗

Twice weekly trip to Tesco this morning. It seems their checkout staff have now been told they must wear masks despite being behind increasing loads of perspex. The lady was complaining bitterly that she couldn’t see a thing due to her glasses steaming. I would have thought it rather important that checkout staff can see what they are doing. I have been trying to wear a mask there simply to avoid confrontations but had huge problems with my glasses steaming. When waiting at the till the strap broke so that was that. Chap behind me in the queue was bare faced, seemed quite happy chatting to the girl next to him. So I guess I will be back to exemption lanyard next week.

161014 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 18, #559 of 2057 🔗

To this day, none of my work colleagues have had the virus or know anyone who has had it much less died from it.

However I get the feeling that I will be seeing a raft of absences due to chest infections, bacterial infections, colds, impetigo, dermatitis, etc from having to be muzzled up for 6-7 hours.

161031 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #560 of 2057 🔗

My hairdresser had a customer who may have died of it in April. Our local press reported a 76 year old pub landlady with chronic diabetes died of it in July. That is literally the only erhum “cases” of Covid 19 death I personally know of, go figure?

161067 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to KBuchanan, #561 of 2057 🔗

That’s because you don’t hang around care homes or food processing factories.

161075 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Bruno, 1, #562 of 2057 🔗

Like most of us.

161034 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to Bart Simpson, 10, #563 of 2057 🔗

Apparently there is an increase in pleurisy as a result of mask wearing. I have yet to have one anywhere near my mouth. I hate going anywhere and seeing them on people, especially kids.

161064 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Janice21, 19, #564 of 2057 🔗

Cant stand looking at people with them on now, its getting to be physical thing where it actually makes me feel ill. Controlled Anger I think

161343 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #565 of 2057 🔗

same here

161612 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Victoria, 1, #566 of 2057 🔗

and here. Vomit rises in throat.

161469 ▶▶▶▶ Willow, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #567 of 2057 🔗

I have the same. I cannot stand even looking at them. Not even in pictures.

161073 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Janice21, 8, #568 of 2057 🔗

I think we could usefully work on publicising the dangers of mask-wearing (eg that one minute spanish video), and particularly the phenomenon dentists have mentioned, of ‘mask mouth’. This strategy might work, given just how hard it now is to get an appointment with a dentist…

161143 ▶▶▶ Ed Phillips, replying to Janice21, 2, #569 of 2057 🔗

I’ve had pleurisy. It was not pleasant. Wouldn’t wish it on anyone.

Do you have any links to reports of an increase?

161236 ▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Ed Phillips, 2, #570 of 2057 🔗

Snap! Me too, I was off school for weeks and let off all games for the rest of the term (a result as far as I was concerned).
I would add that it was caused by the inexistent medical care at my boarding school in the first place with a cough that went untreated.

161905 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ed Phillips, #571 of 2057 🔗

I was thinking that a bout of pleurisy is much nastier than the mild symptoms experienced by most genuine covid cases.

161611 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Janice21, #572 of 2057 🔗

I had pleurisy, years ago. It’s painful, debilitating and dangerous.

161765 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Janice21, #573 of 2057 🔗

That’s another condition I suspect my colleagues will have. Give it another week or so.

I find it hard now to communicate with colleagues due to their muzzles. Perhaps I should change jobs and become a hermit in the desert like St Eusebius the Hermit:


161016 Mark, replying to Mark, 4, #574 of 2057 🔗

““The illustration was to point out that epidemics either double or halve, they’re either growing or shrinking,” he says. “

It is truly bizarre, but these people seem to genuinely believe in this fantastic proposition that government action has somehow preserved us on a knife edge of instability for all these months.

Given the generally shambolic nature of all government action, let alone this latest incarnation of busy-bodying buffoons, that requires a genuinely impressive effort of imagination and mental discipline. Clearly these are people who have practiced sufficiently that they can easily manage to believe six impossible things before breakfast.

But such effort requires motivation, and this seems above and beyond the kind of effort induced by mere ambition. Only the stark fear of getting the blame for the damage they’ve done can explain their desperate efforts to deny reality, to construct a self-justifying new one, and to force the rest of us to live in it, regardless the cost.

These are dangerous men, indeed.

161048 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 6, #575 of 2057 🔗

Even Charles Walker, in his “angry” speech, said something about all wanting to “beat” the virus. Not every problem has a solution. This is the most pernicious notion, that the government by doing everything perfectly can somehow eliminate covid. Until we get it into people’s thick heads that this is a futile and dangerous exercise, we will always be on the back foot somewhat.

161126 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, 2, #576 of 2057 🔗

epidemics either double or halve, they’re either growing or shrinking”

A bit of a ‘Gotcha’ moment in terms of the ‘scientist’ Whitty. Nobody with any scientific credibility would come up with garbage like that.

161021 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 1, #577 of 2057 🔗

hancock up and about to announce new restrictions

161024 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to steve_w, 1, #578 of 2057 🔗

claims current measures may be ‘flattening the curve’

161026 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to steve_w, 2, #579 of 2057 🔗

labour guy 1) begging for a lockdown for liverpool 2) wanting money sent

161027 ▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to steve_w, 1, #580 of 2057 🔗

Its John Ashworth

‘why have the places with the harshest measures got the highest infections?’

161109 ▶▶▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to steve_w, 2, #581 of 2057 🔗

I suspect it is because testing is ramped up in these areas.

161910 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to steve_w, #582 of 2057 🔗

He’s not very bright!

161908 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to steve_w, #583 of 2057 🔗

Someone ought to flatten him!

161023 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 17, #584 of 2057 🔗

Handy cock is going to further restrict Liverpool. Good luck with that one

Perhaps he might like to go up there and tell them himself

161029 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Cecil B, 7, #585 of 2057 🔗

Boris is roundly despised in Liverpool for his comments on that city’s attitude to the Hillsborough disaster. So, yes I imagine further restrictions will go down like the proverbial lead balloon.

161037 ▶▶▶ D B, replying to OKUK, #586 of 2057 🔗

The daft mayor wants it

161105 ▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to OKUK, 1, #587 of 2057 🔗

That said their mayor is very keen on them

161108 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Cecil B, 3, #588 of 2057 🔗

Sadly, I’m afraid most will just go along with it. The constant fear porn is having it’s effect and most people are complying, no matter how insane the measures.

161915 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Chicot, #589 of 2057 🔗

I suspect that, even if they were starting to see through the virus scam, they’re now scared of draconian fines.
Result = perpetual brain freeze.

You’ve got to hand it to the Nudge Unit, they’re bloody good at what they do.

161032 Motke, replying to Motke, -4, #590 of 2057 🔗

I don’t think it’s sensible to say this virus is “akin to the common cold”. Don’t get me wrong, the government response has been utterly hysterical and I believe lockdown measures cause far more harm than the virus itself. I can only think that Toby is trying to say that the majority of people who get Covid have symptoms similar to a common cold. But let’s not forgot that lots of people have died or been very unwell from Covid in ways very unlike the common cold. I bet there isn’t a single medical professional in the entire world who would agree that Covid is “akin to the common cold”! I know for sure if I said that to my doctor mate who works on the frontline he beat me to a pulp. I agree with the majority of sentiments on this site, but I think comparing Covid to the common cold is down playing it a bit too much.

161039 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Motke, 6, #591 of 2057 🔗

You may have a point though I believe colds do sometimes affect people quite badly, especially the very ill

161041 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Motke, 10, #592 of 2057 🔗

The common cold kills thousands of people every year. People in the last few months of life who are susceptible to the latest bugs going round. We just don’t count it as ‘dying of a cold’ because its so common.

161057 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to steve_w, 11, #593 of 2057 🔗

If you repeatedly tested terminally ill people to see if they have a cold and counted it as ‘dying of a cold’ if they came back positive and later died you would have about 600,000 a year

161042 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Motke, 6, #594 of 2057 🔗

It’s not the symptoms more the impact. The flu can cause real problems in a small subset of people but we take that as given

161050 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to mhcp, 3, #595 of 2057 🔗

and about 40,000 people die every winter more than the surrounding months. This is excess winter mortality. ie colds and flu.

161047 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to Motke, 2, #596 of 2057 🔗

You’re right it’s more of a cough but the vast majority of people never show any symptoms at all

161059 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Motke, 3, #597 of 2057 🔗

They just mean it’s a corona virus, like others which give you a cold (there are other non corona viruses that give you cold symptoms too, rhino viruses etc).

161061 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Motke, 7, #598 of 2057 🔗

I agree, and my GP would also agree with you. Covid is a distinct virus with some unusual effects.
However, my GP also said she could see no reason to shut down the NHS and was desperately worried about her other patients.
This is a nuanced argument.

161069 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Kate, -1, #599 of 2057 🔗

I also believe that is was transferred into the human population from bat viruses cultivated in a lab.

So it is a new virus, and one that we have not been exposed to before (even though it shares characteristics with other coronaviruses that normally circulate in the population)

161437 ▶▶▶▶ Willow, replying to Kate, 3, #600 of 2057 🔗

By “characteristics” you mean 80% of its genome. Only 20% is novel, that’s why we have pre-existing immunity 😊

161065 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Motke, 4, #601 of 2057 🔗

The point is that the greater majority of people who died were either very old ( deaths yesterday included people in their nineties, one 98) or with other illnesses including terminal cases. A normal chest infection can be equally lethal to people in this category, even aspirating a small amount of fluids can result in a severe chest infection and death. So I guess the comparison to the cold could have been more to do with putting the risk to people into some perspective.

161066 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Motke, 4, #602 of 2057 🔗

See the panel by the Florida gov DeSantis, which is linked to in the update. Levitt, without saying it out, effectively says this. It’s just another coronavirus.

161082 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to PoshPanic, 4, #603 of 2057 🔗

Which is exactly what Giesecke said in his evidence to the Irish Covid committee…

161092 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Motke, 4, #604 of 2057 🔗

It’s literally “akin” to the common cold in the sense of being caused by a virus of the same broad family (coronavirus) as some that cause many common colds. Seems likely once the human population has adjusted to its novelties that it will just become another of the circulating seasonal common cold coronaviruses that are only a danger to people particularly vulnerable to it or to complications arising from it.

161098 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Mark, #605 of 2057 🔗

Normally children develop these coronavirus infections, get them very mildly, and then become immune as adults.
The danger from covid19 is that it is new and is circulating in adults with no previous exposure.

161123 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Kate, 4, #606 of 2057 🔗


But the longer term danger is that the panic response is inducing changes in human societies that, to the extent that they have any effect at all, will tend to reduce our collective immune response resistance to all viruses (and perhaps diseases in general), by distancing and other measures that inhibit the rapid and regular exchange of viruses between people, especially children.

That’s a recipe for a really disastrous pandemic down the line.

161138 ▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Mark, 4, #607 of 2057 🔗

and the repeated use of hand sanitiser is breeding the next superbacteria as we speak

161219 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to steve_w, 4, #608 of 2057 🔗

I noticed a bottle of hand sanitizer cable tied to a fecking gate yesterday, in the middle of nowhere. Mental.

161179 ▶▶▶▶ helen, replying to Kate, 5, #609 of 2057 🔗

I have another theory (bound to be labelled conspiracy) and it is that children aren’t dying covid because its much more difficult to falsify the death certificate of a child.

161937 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to helen, #610 of 2057 🔗

Children are thankfully much less likely to die than the over-80s.

161935 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Kate, #611 of 2057 🔗

That was April.
Doesn’t really apply now, does it?

161134 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Mark, 2, #612 of 2057 🔗

yes, there are 4 circulating coronaviruses that cause colds. now we have 5. we need to build up a bit of immunity to it. I imagine the other 4 took a toll on the frail before they settled down too

161564 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to steve_w, 2, #613 of 2057 🔗

Yes. At around the time of the Norman Conquest for HN63.

162639 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Bruno, #614 of 2057 🔗

NL63 🙂 But it was around the time of the Norman Conquest based on counting the number of neutral mutations, which is also why we think OC43 was about 1890.

161933 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark, #615 of 2057 🔗

Which is why all the mockdown shenanegans are highly suspect and completely unnecessary (from a public health point of view).

161102 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Motke, #616 of 2057 🔗

I thought Will said that mainly to illustrate the futility of trying to control or eradicate this virus. Could be wrong though.

161162 ▶▶ helen, replying to Motke, 4, #617 of 2057 🔗

I can down play it much more than that.
Its has never been isolated
Therefore has not passed the virus test Koch postulates test, because it has not yet been isolated.
um I think that means it doesn’t really exist …but luckily for the health authorities and politicians there are plenty others that can quietly surrogate for it.

161184 ▶▶ helen, replying to Motke, 1, #618 of 2057 🔗

I suggest you read the book I posted above CORONA FALSE ALARM

161594 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to helen, 1, #619 of 2057 🔗

I suggest you read the many earlier post on this site which explain that Koch’s postulates were proposed in the late C19 before viruses had been discovered by the use of more powerful magnification, and so, because they are obligate intracellular parasites, cannot satisfy said postulates.

162121 ▶▶▶▶ helen, replying to Bruno, #620 of 2057 🔗

Were viruses discovered? Is that a given? How since they contain a replica or the genetic material of the host or are said to be ‘obligate intracellular parasites’ can anyone be absolutely sure that they are not some excreter of the host?
Its a theory!
There is a body of opinion that postulates another theory ; that a so called virus is a so called exosome or some kind of cell excreter.

Of course this particular theory would not be one that vaccine manufactures would like much. No big pharma. would prefer the virus theory and might promote and finance academics in this field, as opposed to those who study health matters from other perspectives; like healthy life styles for example.

Oh yes, I remember when I was working as a scientist in the 1970s we did not have to worry so much about this kind bias. But thats the olden days and olden day science must be WRONG.

But I don’t think this matters not at all because there are plenty of other illnesses that can quietly operate as a surrogate for a virus to perpetuate this SCAM

162653 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to helen, #621 of 2057 🔗

If people breathe out exosomes and other people breathe them in and then start making them themselves then that is a viral infection. This is what happens, it doesn’t matter what you call it.

Viruses are a similar phenomenon to exosomes but I don’t think the human body makes much use of exosomes. They’re more something bacteria do.

162783 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ helen, replying to guy153, #622 of 2057 🔗

Theories only theories

161294 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Motke, 2, #623 of 2057 🔗

It’s less deadly than flu. (Especially to young and children).

It’s a coronavirus.


162635 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Motke, #624 of 2057 🔗

It’s an interesting question how much C19 is worse than other HCoVs. A few years ago there was concern in a care home in Canada that there might have been a SARS1 outbreak. It turned to be “just” common cold coronavirus OC43, which has been endemic for over 100 years. But it had an 8% CFR in a care home. That’s very comparable to C19.

My suspicion is that once C19 has been around for a few years and there’s quite a lot of immunity to it (people will get reinfected a few times in their lives but usually more mildly) then it will have no higher fatality that any of the other HCoVs.

They were also pretty nasty when they were new. OC43 was probably the “Russian Flu” of 1890. The reason for this is a combination of less pre-existing immunity (there is some cross-immunity, but the situation is not as good as if that actual virus is a few years old) and probably also the viruses attenuating to become more infectious and milder.

Endemic C19 won’t be half as bad as pandemic C19 and even pandemic C19 wasn’t actually that bad as it turned out. Pandemic C19 was maybe only about twice as bad as endemic influenza. But excess deaths attributed to influenza may partly be due to coronaviruses as well– people don’t usually count it that carefully.

161053 Mark, replying to Mark, 6, #625 of 2057 🔗

Re the Trafalgar Square demo, we still don’t know who gave the order to clear the square and to do it “robustly”, as suggested on this week’s London Calling from “a source close to the police”.

Who gave the order?

161068 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Mark, 3, #626 of 2057 🔗

Khan or Patel would be my guess.

161099 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to leggy, 5, #627 of 2057 🔗

It would be nice of there were a hue and cry over this, but only people like Toby, Dolan or Hitchens, with media platforms, could get one started.

161940 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to leggy, #628 of 2057 🔗

I’m sure Dick was very happy to organise it.

161074 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Mark, 2, #629 of 2057 🔗

Some common purpose dick

161070 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 11, #631 of 2057 🔗

Yesterday in the US 1 341 348 C-19 PCR tests were performed where 2.96% were positive. The amount of C-19 PCR tests for one day easily outperforms ALL PCR-tests for influenza in a year. This is almost a grotesque amount of testing. Many tests probably related to work etc but difficult to get an estimate. Some must have been done for CLI symptoms although the actual surveillance for people attending  ED for CLI is low now in the US.
How can we interpret results on such a massive expansion of testing? If we did this for influenza instead what would be the result?
UK is doing approximately 250000 tests per day.

Yesterday I published a very god article of the futility of testing in this phase of the pandemic. I think it appropriate to publish it again. The amount of information from these monster screening programmes just swamp us and makes it more difficult to select the essential information.


161104 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, 5, #632 of 2057 🔗

“This is almost a grotesque amount of testing.”

The only thing that I would disagree with is the word ‘almost’ in that sentence.

An excellent, seminal reference, Swedenborg.

161217 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to swedenborg, 3, #633 of 2057 🔗

I totally agree and it’s why we don’t hear about flu rates very much at all in previous times. It is a media driven pandemic, not a viral one. Example.

Today they will announce lockdown measures in Northern Ireland. The quarterly death figures for the regions are out and the BBC go with the headline that 11% of all deaths this year were CV19. Scary for a new virus yeah?


We know that the details are always were the truth is because context is everything. So if you read the NIISRA Quarterly Death report some things are able to add this context if the fearful care to look:

– For working age population (up to 69), 102 deaths were CV-19. This is out of a total 8050 deaths. 1.2%.

– Under 59 only 43 have died of/with CV-19. 0.5% of deaths. No mention of co-morbidities in these numbers.

Those of working age that have died, 102, up to a third come from the unemployed or permanently sick. Around 5% are in care related areas (7).

There doesn’t seem to be any significant difference in terms of deprivation measurements across all CV-19 deaths, but then why would there be? If you’re old and vulnerable to CV-19 you are probably limited in terms of your daily life anyway, as much as the next man, and the differences in daily activities between income groups even out much more significantly in this respect.

So, if you are under 69 and healthy. You absolutely should be able to live your life, work for a crumb and not be subjected the fear agenda. We are being held hostage by this. Those that claim to represent us are now complicit in this effort to destroy what sanctity we have for a normal life.

My last line there could not be more opposed to the BBC line of reporting. It says it all.


161667 ▶▶▶ Janice21, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #634 of 2057 🔗

I would say a lot of those deaths under the age of 69 are also linked to obesity and heart conditions.

161396 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to swedenborg, 2, #635 of 2057 🔗

We all know there is a cheap, safe, effective treatment for Sars-Cov-2 infections. That is why this pandemic epidemic bout of Sars-Cov-2 should be of little danger to anyone.

161071 Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #636 of 2057 🔗

Every man and woman is equal before the law except they are not.

In the South of England 6 people can group up for a sing in a pub. In the North East of England only one person can sing in a pub.

Two hours of radio show includes that summary from a human rights barrister at about, 9 mins in. The whole show worth a listen.


161080 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 3, #637 of 2057 🔗

When the rules are supposedly based on ‘the science’, yet are different in different parts of the UK, you know it is not really the science that is behind them…

161094 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Carrie, 2, #638 of 2057 🔗

Some weeks ago, I said “How do we arrive at the situation where one city has a different law from the rest of the country?”. Doesn’t seem to matter now.

161072 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 13, #639 of 2057 🔗

Psychological warfare is a broad term, but in all documented cases, the concept uses actions intended to reduce an opponent’s morale or mental well being. The aim is to use manipulative tactics to intimidate or persuade a person or people. This process is usually employed through propaganda.

161119 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Dan Clarke, #640 of 2057 🔗

Is there any reason why we shouldn’t use the tools of psychological warfare to get our message across?

161089 Sam Vimes, 6, #641 of 2057 🔗

Hurrah, the R number has fallen. Imperial College says so. Presumably it has dropped by 500,000.

161091 Dan Clarke, 2, #642 of 2057 🔗

The MP’s going on about T&T seem as if they cant correlate that with having no workers, ie why the police have been told not to download

161103 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 10, #643 of 2057 🔗

Earlier a poster put up an article that Max Hastings wrote about Mr. Johnson over a year ago. It was excoriating. I can’t locate it now but my thanks to the poster.

Here is a very prescient quote from that article.

>>>his premiership will almost certainly reveal a contempt for rules, precedent, order and stability<<

161121 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Ned of the Hills, #644 of 2057 🔗

Liam beat me too it! I’ve posted a reply, below. MW

161122 ▶▶ Liam, replying to Ned of the Hills, 5, #645 of 2057 🔗

I won’t link to the original article as it’s from The Guardian, google it if you want to share the link.

“The Tory party is about to foist a tasteless joke upon the British people. He cares for nothing but his own fame and gratification

Six years ago, the Cambridge historian Christopher Clark published a study of the outbreak of the first world war, titled The Sleepwalkers. Though Clark is a fine scholar, I was unconvinced by his title, which suggested that the great powers stumbled mindlessly to disaster. On the contrary, the maddest aspect of 1914 was that each belligerent government convinced itself that it was acting rationally.
It would be fanciful to liken the ascent of Boris Johnson to the outbreak of global war, but similar forces are in play. There is room for debate about whether he is a scoundrel or mere rogue, but not much about his moral bankruptcy, rooted in a contempt for truth. Nonetheless, even before the Conservative national membership cheers him in as our prime minister – denied the option of Nigel Farage, whom some polls suggest they would prefer – Tory MPs have thronged to do just that.

I have known Johnson since the 1980s, when I edited the Daily Telegraph and he was our flamboyant Brussels correspondent. I have argued for a decade that, while he is a brilliant entertainer who made a popular maître d’ for London as its mayor, he is unfit for national office, because it seems he cares for no interest save his own fame and gratification.
Tory MPs have launched this country upon an experiment in celebrity government, matching that taking place in Ukraine and the US, and it is unlikely to be derailed by the latest headlines. The Washington Post columnist George Will observes that Donald Trump does what his political base wants “by breaking all the china”. We can’t predict what a Johnson government will do, because its prospective leader has not got around to thinking about this. But his premiership will almost certainly reveal a contempt for rules, precedent, order and stability.

A few admirers assert that, in office, Johnson will reveal an accession of wisdom and responsibility that have hitherto eluded him, not least as foreign secretary. This seems unlikely, as the weekend’s stories emphasised. Dignity still matters in public office, and Johnson will never have it. Yet his graver vice is cowardice, reflected in a willingness to tell any audience, whatever he thinks most likely to please, heedless of the inevitability of its contradiction an hour later.

Like many showy personalities, he is of weak character. I recently suggested to a radio audience that he supposes himself to be Winston Churchill, while in reality being closer to Alan Partridge. Churchill, for all his wit, was a profoundly serious human being. Far from perceiving anything glorious about standing alone in 1940, he knew that all difficult issues must be addressed with allies and partners.
Churchill’s self-obsession was tempered by a huge compassion for humanity, or at least white humanity, which Johnson confines to himself. He has long been considered a bully, prone to making cheap threats. My old friend Christopher Bland, when chairman of the BBC, once described to me how he received an angry phone call from Johnson, denouncing the corporation’s “gross intrusion upon my personal life” for its coverage of one of his love affairs.

“We know plenty about your personal life that you would not like to read in the Spectator,” the then editor of the magazine told the BBC’s chairman, while demanding he order the broadcaster to lay off his own dalliances.
Bland told me he replied: “Boris, think about what you have just said. There is a word for it, and it is not a pretty one.”
He said Johnson blustered into retreat, but in my own files I have handwritten notes from our possible next prime minister, threatening dire consequences in print if I continued to criticise him.

Johnson would not recognise truth, whether about his private or political life, if confronted by it in an identity parade. In a commonplace book the other day, I came across an observation made in 1750 by a contemporary savant, Bishop Berkeley: “It is impossible that a man who is false to his friends and neighbours should be true to the public.” Almost the only people who think Johnson a nice guy are those who do not know him.
There is, of course, a symmetry between himself and Jeremy Corbyn. Corbyn is far more honest, but harbours his own extravagant delusions. He may yet prove to be the only possible Labour leader whom Johnson can defeat in a general election. If the opposition was led by anybody else, the Tories would be deservedly doomed, because we would all vote for it. As it is, the Johnson premiership could survive for three or four years, shambling from one embarrassment and debacle to another.”

161132 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Liam, 2, #646 of 2057 🔗

Hi, it was Nsklent , on yesterday’s thread. It’s from the Graun but makes very interesting reading:

‘I was Boris Johnson’s boss: he is utterly unfit to be prime minister’ – Max Hastings

This prescient final paragraph leapt out at me, my emphasis at the end:

‘There is, of course, a symmetry between himself and Jeremy Corbyn. Corbyn is far more honest, but harbours his own extravagant delusions. He may yet prove to be the only possible Labour leader whom Johnson can defeat in a general election. If the opposition was led by anybody else, the Tories would be deservedly doomed, because we would all vote for it. As it is, the Johnson premiership could survive for three or four years, shambling from one embarrassment and debacle to another, of which Brexit may prove the least.’

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/24/boris-johnson-prime-minister-tory-party-britain (I think Toby has asked us not to reproduce whole articles but, rather, provide links.) MW

161142 ▶▶▶▶ Liam, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #647 of 2057 🔗

Apologies, I’m clogging up the thread with such a long post. I’ll edit it down.

161145 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Liam, 1, #648 of 2057 🔗

Well it was the Graun! 😉 MW

161963 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #649 of 2057 🔗

He’s only asked us not to reproduce copyrighted articles.

161409 ▶▶▶ Willow, replying to Liam, 1, #650 of 2057 🔗

“Johnson would not recognise truth … if confronted by it in an identity parade.”

And sums up the entire thing.

161235 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, #651 of 2057 🔗

Thanks to Nsklent then – what a lovely name!

161112 Sam Vimes, 6, #652 of 2057 🔗

Has everyone else missed the TV ad where Bunter says “ It’s a legal requirement to wear masks in many places, but do please remember that some people are exempt,and they shouldn’t be challenged or abused “. ?

I keep looknig out for it, but can’t seem to catch it…

161113 Eddy, 16, #653 of 2057 🔗

We need a vaccine now! people are dropping dead by the 0.001s

161116 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 8, #654 of 2057 🔗

To misquote Churchill; “The battle of the virus is over, the battle of the economy is about to begin’

The Dictator has racked up the government debt to two trillion

Thats 62K for each person who was working at the start of the shamdemic

For most households it will be at least 124k

52% of tax raised comes from income tax, national insurance, and VAT

The mass unemployment that is coming will see a huge drop in these revenues, and more people reliant on state handouts.

There will be massive defaults on mortgages and car leasing.

Raise more taxes? Print more money? Cut public services? Bail out the banks again?

No wonder they want us locked up

At 5pm each day handy cock will gleefully tell us how each of our 62k’s in rising in value

161118 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Cecil B, 4, #655 of 2057 🔗

More people dependent on the state, just what they want, control

161206 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Dan Clarke, 5, #656 of 2057 🔗

Forced labour coming soon and work camps. You will have “no right to turn down employment opportunities”, picking those turnips in Lincolnshire, digging those post holes for solar panels in Essex. Yes the accommodation is basic and covid safe. Food and travel will be provided.

161216 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cecil B, 1, #657 of 2057 🔗

We would do well to print this figures and posting copies through doors… 124K per household is a figure people can relate to and will hopefully react to!

161223 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Cecil B, -1, #658 of 2057 🔗

“Thats 62K for each person who was working at the start of the shamdemic”

And also, by accounting identity, £62K of Gilt savings for each person who was working.

Why are you obsessing about one side of the balance sheet and ignoring the other side – which contains the very “store of value” that will settle the liability?

At the very least try to understand the accounting – otherwise you sound like a different form of the “masks: good, no-masks: bad” person who can’t see the wider picture.

161265 ▶▶▶ Ossettian, replying to Lucan Grey, 2, #659 of 2057 🔗

But they’re not the same people, are they?

If I owe a bank £100k my liability is matched by assets of others totalling the same amount: I can’t just ignore the effect of my debt on me because the entries net to zero.

161125 Fruitbat, replying to Fruitbat, 1, #660 of 2057 🔗

I’ve heard people argue against the case made by Michael Yeadon regarding false positives by saying that the false positive rate cannot possibly be higher than the lowest positive rate recorded by the ONS for the surveillance data. I am assuming that Michael Yeadon used the data from the ONS as an estimate of the ‘true’ level of infection within the general population because he knows that they have a more accurate way of determining actual infections in a way that the Pillar 2 tests don’t, But does anyone actually have any detailed knowledge on how the ONS testing is carried out compared to the Pillar 2 tests and how this would lead to a more realistic figure for the current infection rate?

161159 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Fruitbat, 3, #661 of 2057 🔗

I think that this is crucial :

We use current COVID-19 infections to mean testing positive for SARS-CoV-2, with or without having symptoms, on a swab taken from the nose and throat.”

i.e. it’s subject to the same bollocks as all the ‘case’=’infection’=’illness’ narrative.

They admit that sensitivity and specificity are unknowns – and I do think that they genuinely use statistical methods to try to compensate for this.

… but, of course, a methodology flawed at the base is a flawed methodology producing flawed results.

This is as good as testing gets – and it’s not a good enough basis for shaping policy.

161164 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Fruitbat, 4, #662 of 2057 🔗

As far as I can tell, FPR and FNR come from three distinct sources.
Firstly, the lab test itself. This has high specificity (low FPR) and high sensitivity (low FNR) when tested on pure cultures — which is of course exactly the way you assess these tests, but not exactly what you give them in practice. That’s what we’re seeing in these PHE assessments

Secondly, there are operational problems, such as mishandling, mislabelling, cross-contamination, improper storage, delays in testing and poor swabbing techniques. The operational problems are assessed in a GOS report to give an irreducible 2% or so FPR.

Thirdly there are issues about whether the virus is present in the part of the body that the sample is taken from (FNR) varying by date and area swabbed, to give FNR between 30% and 100% (yes!) and whether what’s detected is enough to show an active infection (FPR) dependent on cycle number, which I’m not competent to judge. See BMJ paper

161187 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Richard Pinch, 4, #663 of 2057 🔗

Where are these ‘pure cultures’? When was the virus isolated and purified? Who has established the Gold Standard?

161240 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #664 of 2057 🔗

As I understand the tests, they took swabs from a known positive source and a known negative source, and then subdivided them into 195 samples. So all test samples came from the same master sample and should have given the same result.

161174 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Fruitbat, 1, #665 of 2057 🔗

My understanding is the the ONS has its own programme of testing of random samples of people using, guess what, the same PCR test that throws up all the false positives everywhere so everybody is just comparing turds day after day. That doesn’t detract from Yeadon’s argument though – just read all the figures as ‘what ifs’ and the maths still works!

161192 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #666 of 2057 🔗

That’s not quite fair to the ONS. They do followups on their positive tests to try and assess whether they are actual “cases” and to infer from that how many of their new positive tests results are actually “infections”. See ONS methodology and preprint

161359 ▶▶▶▶▶ wayno, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #668 of 2057 🔗

is that where they got their doubling from? noticed it went from 0.1 to 0.2

161370 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to wayno, #669 of 2057 🔗

🙂 MW

161200 ▶▶ DocRC, replying to Fruitbat, 9, #670 of 2057 🔗

A paramedic I work with in my sports medicine job had one of the home tests. He broke off the end of the swab and put it in the transport medium (all without it going anywhere near his nose or throat). Guess what? It came back positive! I think the pillar 2 (community) tests are all done by the private sector- Deloitte got the contract to organise this- and they are going to a Ct of up to 42 (Ct=cycle threshold, the point at which you decide the test is -ve or +ve). The european norm is 30. At a Ct of 42 you will get many more positives as it amplifies any stray DNA in the sample (“background noise”) and increase the percentage of positives, most of which will be false. The way round this, of course is to stop testing people without symptoms because if you are not ill, you are not a “case”!

161231 ▶▶▶ DeepBlueYonder, replying to DocRC, 1, #671 of 2057 🔗

Isn’t there a common standard across Pillar 1 and Pillar 2 tests for the number of Ct cycles?

161299 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to DeepBlueYonder, 1, #672 of 2057 🔗

Mwah ha ha ha. As if.

161329 ▶▶▶▶▶ DeepBlueYonder, replying to JohnB, #673 of 2057 🔗

Yes, I asked the question dreading that that would be the case – that there is no common standard. Shouldn’t there at least be transparency about what threshold is being used? I wonder if the private labs which are conducting the Pillar 2 tests are subject to Freedom of Information?

161979 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to DeepBlueYonder, #674 of 2057 🔗

The excuse is that they’re using kits from different manufacturers and they require different cycle numbers.
Shouldn’t be difficult to sort it out though – if they wanted to.

161259 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to DocRC, 5, #675 of 2057 🔗

I posted about the Phantom of Heilbronn here recently. A suspected female serial killer, her DNA was found at 40 crime scenes in Austria, France and Germany from 1993 to 2009 including six murders. In 2009, the woman was traced. She worked at the factory that supplied forensic test kits — her DNA had got onto the cotton swabs during manufacture.

161282 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Richard Pinch, #676 of 2057 🔗
161139 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 5, #677 of 2057 🔗

Solution to today’s problem: If I carry a film camera around with me, and claim I’m making a TV documentary about Wales, I can go where the fuck I want:


161194 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #678 of 2057 🔗

The Covid restrictions on large productions like this are unbelievable, so it’s a major effort for them to be able to do this.

161146 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 8, #679 of 2057 🔗

“I am 36 and this is the second protest I have ever been to. The first protest being the one on August 29th. There is certainly a preponderance of “conspiracy theorists” at these events but my sense is that a larger proportion are ordinary people like myself, angry at the political system and deeply concerned by our loss of liberty and damage to the economy. Regardless, believing something that others do not is not a crime.”

This chap is at the start of a long learning curve.

Sorry mate, if you’re ‘angry at the political system’ you are no longer ‘ordinary people’ as you claim ; you have joined the ranks of the ‘conspiracy theorists’, those foreign creatures whose wild ideas include the expectation of gratuitous violence from the police at public protests – because, believe it or not, they may have seen it and felt it all before, any number of times. Who knows, some of these ‘conspiracy theorists’ may even consider themselves to be ‘ordinary people’ too.


161157 ▶▶ John Galt, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #680 of 2057 🔗

Exactly. What do these people think the government and media see them as?

161228 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to John Galt, 2, #681 of 2057 🔗

A threat!
Hence the deployment of the goon squad.

161167 ▶▶ RickH, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 8, #682 of 2057 🔗

Again that word ‘conspiracy’.

Now – I reckon that a group of people who sit around a table and plan to imprison and enslave others by means of fraud and coercion is a ‘conspiracy’.

… aka ‘Cabinet’.

161441 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #683 of 2057 🔗

Thanks Alan, saved me the time of responding.

161150 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #684 of 2057 🔗

Does anyone know anything about this?
It’s from late last night, so knock a day off each date reported.

Tonight at 8pm venues across the UK are lighting red.
Yesterday there was a silent protest in Parliament square.
Tomorrow a drive slow through Birmingham around the NEC is taking place.

161155 ▶▶ Jakehadlee, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #685 of 2057 🔗

I like the drive slow idea – can’t get a baton across the head for “not socially distancing” in your car.

161178 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Jakehadlee, #686 of 2057 🔗

Good ideas, apart from the drive slow. This is going to affect people trying to earn a living, in already challenging conditions. It will just piss off the masses.

161221 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to PoshPanic, 3, #687 of 2057 🔗

So what are they supposed to do?
These are people from the exhibition and events indusrty who have received no assistance during the mockdown and whose businesses are struggling. They have a right to peaceful protest in order to bring attention to their plight.

161165 John P, replying to John P, 18, #688 of 2057 🔗

In general you have to make a point until long after you are sick of saying it, before most people even realise you are saying it at all.

Dissent is slow. Be patient and angry at the same time.

 – Peter Hitchens.

161497 ▶▶ Basics, replying to John P, #689 of 2057 🔗

This is exactly right imo. Good for Peter being able to express it so clearly.

161166 PoshPanic, replying to PoshPanic, 11, #690 of 2057 🔗

With the reference to Blackadder goes fourth, I noticed that Bojo is definitely turned into the barking mad General Melchett, with Handjob playing the creepy little Captain Darling.

161175 ▶▶ Roadrash, replying to PoshPanic, 5, #691 of 2057 🔗

Indeed. They are trying the same plan as last time…and the 17 times before that!

161183 ▶▶▶ wayno, replying to Roadrash, #692 of 2057 🔗

Exactly and the enemy won’t be expecting that.

161177 ▶▶ RickH, replying to PoshPanic, #693 of 2057 🔗

Yes – that’s a pretty good image.

161181 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to PoshPanic, 4, #694 of 2057 🔗

“If nothing else works then a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through”

161342 ▶▶▶ wayno, replying to Achilles, 1, #695 of 2057 🔗

underpants on head, pencils up the nose……wibble, wibble

161170 Roadrash, 1, #696 of 2057 🔗

Further restrictions in Northwest as predicted. Cash handout to Joe Anderson as predicted.

161171 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #697 of 2057 🔗

Just seen this in a BBC article.

Once the new labs open this month we could see a jump in daily cases that do not necessarily spell a worsening of infection levels.

Oh great, can’t wait. Cue October lockdown.

161188 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to A. Contrarian, #698 of 2057 🔗

What’s the betting the BBC will forget the nuance of that by the time they are open and new cases spike?

161210 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to A. Contrarian, #699 of 2057 🔗

Let’s hope they continue to note the difference between cases and infections though both are dubious terms in this context.

161264 ▶▶ mjr, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #700 of 2057 🔗

what??? the BBC actually acknowledging that additional “cases” may be due to additional tests? and not because we are all going to die?

161190 Ricky R, replying to Ricky R, 18, #701 of 2057 🔗

I very much believed this was incompetence and mass hysteria on the part of the government and they were secretly pursuing the Swedish model after their initial overreaction and any measures were simply political posturing and wouldnt be enforced.

I’m sad to say I now agree with many here that this is not incompetence. It is about power and control. Feeling completely hopeless about the future.

161193 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Ricky R, 3, #702 of 2057 🔗

And money.

161196 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to leggy, #703 of 2057 🔗

And ego.

161198 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Ricky R, 14, #704 of 2057 🔗

Agree. I simply cannot believe this is simply just incompetence – Ooops, I just accidentally implemented a totalitarian state.

161203 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to Ricky R, 9, #705 of 2057 🔗

Wasting lives to save face.

And that’s the most charitable explanation that remains tenable.

161205 ▶▶ helen, replying to Ricky R, 3, #706 of 2057 🔗

I agree Ricky, I do not think its incompetence either…
Is it about power and control? Not sure.
Maggie made greed acceptable perhaps politicians are pretty much all compromised in some way or another. We already know about Whitty..could this be across the board as corporations , NGOs and politics have become inseparable.
I empathise with your feelings

161208 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ricky R, 5, #707 of 2057 🔗

Agree – now that BJ has committed the UK to vast contributions to the WHO and referenced Bill Gates several times in speeches, there is *no way* this is just incompetence..
Also Prince Charles going on about Global Reset..

161274 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Ricky R, 3, #708 of 2057 🔗

I don’t think it is about power and control. I think it is the principle of Commitment and Consistency (from Robert Cialdini’s book Influence as I’ve said before). It’s basically a form of self-brainwashing. Because you commit to action you knock off the original pillars of your beliefs and move to the new belief system. And because you have publically committed to something it is way harder to backtrack – it’s a type of social conditioning we have from evolution.

So you end up believing and doing crazy things. The best example were US PoWs who were brainwashed into being supporters of the CCP during the Korean War. Many decades later they still believed the brainwashing. Because they had brainwashed themselves.

What is needed is an intervention. But that requires a truck load of testicles.

161434 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Ricky R, 2, #709 of 2057 🔗

I’m sad to say I now agree with many here that this is not incompetence. It is about power and control. Feeling completely hopeless about the future.

This is a not un-common response to ‘taking the red pill’, Ricky. But there are people to read, reactions to follow, and other people out there, who can/will help you cheer up. Action, of any sort, helps a lot.

162337 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to JohnB, 3, #710 of 2057 🔗

I posted posted this before, but I think it is relevant here.

Some people think the government lockdowns are part of a conspiracy, so the question that arises is: “Why should this be so?” Is there any reason? There might be some things happening that just appear to benefit from there being a lockdown with a Behavioral Insights Team helping the BBC to scare the people shwitless. The danger of the disease is over-hyped and the government changes the rules to make it look as if many more people are dying from it than is actually the case. They then decant sick people into care homes where there is very little medical assistance and add all those that die there to the numbers dying from the disease.

The mantra becomes that we can only relax the lockdown rules when a vaccine becomes available. Enter left, a philanthopist, who takes a great interest in these matters agrees to help chivvy this along if you can chip in a few million/billion pounds. He is a major funder of the entities in this field (WHO – 4.3 Billion, Imperial College – 280 Million, Oxford University – 243 Million, Prof. Chris Wittey – 40 Million, BBC Media Action – 53 Million, CDC – 155 Million, GAVI – 3 Billion, Johns Hopkins – 870 Million, NIH (Fauci) – 18 Million).

The prime minister ponces around with world leaders and promises large sums of taxpayer money to the philanthopist’s favourite fund and directly to vaccine manufacturers so that we can all be vaccinated with an incompletely tested vaccine, one where all the ferrets died when exposed to the disease and for which the manufacturers have no liability if the vaccine kills or maims tens of thousands. Still, we have millions of syringes ready so they really must go ahead with vaccine production. They are training recruits too so that they can make sure everyone is protected.

To ensure the populace is well informed, the philanthropist gives money to all the news outlets that will take it and so make sure they never hear the word Hydroxychloroquine. Hydroxychloroquine is banned for use with the disease in most western countries where the death rate is much higher than countries that used it prophylactically or in the early stages of the infection. It just so happens that the head of the centre for disease control in the United States has an interest in a competitor for treating the disease and produced false evidence to attempt to discredit HCQ.

But this minor conflict of interest is not the main concern. It is that if the fact that HCQ treatments can be 100% effective in the early stages of the disease becomes universally known, then people will know that there is absolutely no need whatsoever for a vaccine. And the philanthropist is on record saying that he makes 20 times a much money from vaccines than anything else.

So there you have it, no smoking guns.

161195 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 10, #711 of 2057 🔗

I am taking the liberty of putting my own spin on certain phrases in today’s informative post:

On Witless and Unbalanced’s latest fact-free and incoherent presentation: ‘Yhat is a misrepresentation of the data that feeds into the Government narrative’

MY VERSION: ‘Those are are outright lies’.

On Johnson’s brush with death: ‘I believe that he has been so frightened, so utterly mortified that his own mortality was threatened by this virus, that he now feels a civic duty to stop anyone else experiencing that.’

MY VERSION: This should read: There is an urban myth that he has been so frightened, etc. Unfortunately the lockdown until there’s a vaccine, the notion of the ‘New Normal”, the SPI-B fearmongering playbook and the advertising contract with the media all preceded Johnson’s illness.

On Polls: ‘It makes you wonder whether all these polls that appear to show just how much public support there is for lockdown measures are really just measuring virtue-signalling.’

MY VERSION: ‘Polls are a form of propaganda’.

On masks with slogans : ‘a way to stay sceptical for times when he might not feel brave enough to wear his exemption lanyard’

MY VERSION: ‘Whatever you write on it, if you wear a mask you are compliant. Wear an exemption lanyard, you really don’t have to be very brave to do this and you will be doing your bit against tyranny and oppression.’ [Caveat from me: I know there are very particular circumstances e.g. health settings, where you might have to wear a mask but any businesses trying to demand them should be boycotted. Ditto those trying to demand T&T app scans.] MW

161207 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 4, #712 of 2057 🔗

You and I are clearly on the same page re Johnson’s “brush with death”.

Good post. I agree with all your analysis.

161262 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #713 of 2057 🔗

Totally agree on the subject of masks with slogans. I only created a slogan mask for use on the plane when I go on holiday, but given that the Spaniards have gone muzzle-crazy, I’m probably just going to cancel now.

161278 ▶▶ Jakehadlee, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #714 of 2057 🔗

Surely if he was that traumatised by his illness he is not the right person to be taking a risk-benefit analysis on the virus?

161327 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #715 of 2057 🔗

We’re all coping there best we can in this nightmare. If you find an exemption lanyard less degrading to wear than a mask with a slogan then you do you, but you’re kidding yourself if you think this means you’re “doing your best against tyranny” when others aren’t. At least a well-judged slogan might lead to discussions or raise doubts in people’s minds.

161362 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to mattghg, #716 of 2057 🔗

comment image MW

161197 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #717 of 2057 🔗

These are the RCT trials Fauci wanted in the beginning of the pandemic. This is an important new publication showing a 24% reduction C-19 infection, hospitalization and death with HCQ This could be a game changer.A drug, cheap,very safe even in pregnant women.No risk this will mentioned in BBC as a discredited drug.Even Prof Balloux seems to have second thoughts about the drug reading this. His twitter below the link.
 https://twitter.com/BallouxFrancois/status/1311502285864947712 Randomized Controlled Trials of Early Ambulatory Hydroxychloroquine in the Prevention of COVID-19 Infection, Hospitalization, and Death: Meta-Analysis “ Results–Five randomized controlled clinical trials enrolling 5,577 patients were included. HCQ was associated with a 24% reduction in COVID-19 infection, hospitalization or death, P=.025 (RR, 0.76 [95% CI, 0.59 to 0.97]). No serious adverse cardiac events were reported. The most common side effects were gastrointestinal. Conclusion–Hydroxychloroquine use in outpatients reduces the incidence of the composite outcome of COVID-19 infection, hospitalization, and death. Serious adverse events were not reported and cardiac arrhythmia was rare”#

161404 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to swedenborg, 1, #718 of 2057 🔗

Sky News Australia now pushing hard on this in Australia.
Not a peep in the UK media.


Suggest a watch of all, but listen carefully to the section about Martin Landray and the Recovery trial. Hospitalised patients were given a loading dose of 2400mg, followed by a daily dose of 800mg from day 2 to day 10.
2400mg is a hugely toxic, potentially fatal overdose (in a healthy individual).
And HCQ has a long half life of between 30-50 days.

The WHO’s own Solidarity trial also used a dangerous toxic overdose. Believe it may have been 1800mg. I’ve seen it reported that officers of the Gates Foundation were on the group that decided that trial’s protocol.

HCQ is simple first line treatment (a pill) that can be taken immediately indicative symptoms arise.
Clears the virus, prevents symptom escalation, prevents need for hospitalisation and saves lives.
UK message effectively remains ‘stay at home, do nothing, until you become really ill’

France Soir has also pursued this story in a determined fashion.


161201 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 10, #719 of 2057 🔗

I enjoyed and agreed with Steve Rucastle’s letter until the end. He sympathises with de Piffle, whose “close brush with death” is, to my mind, more than doubtful.

I’m not disputing that he might have had a flu-like illness but he was taken into hospital as a precaution, as would make sense because he’s the PM. At that point in the epidemic, if he’d been touch and go, he’d have been put on a ventilator.

He was in hospital for a very few days for someone at death’s door – the “he is risen!” at Easter having been noted by many.

I think he’s off his game because he’s way out of his depth and thoroughly miserable. Being king of the world is not the jolly jape he’d anticipated. Given his history, it’s quite probable that he’s heavily self-medicating.

What do you think? Uncomfortable truth or valid excuse?

161209 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #720 of 2057 🔗


161211 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #721 of 2057 🔗

It really needs an ICU doctor’s opinion, but I am suspicious that someone near death’s door in ICU would be out and about so quickly. I do not doubt he had the virus, nor that it affected him more than the majority of others with observable symptoms. This can be explained by the fact that he is is a ‘vulnerable group’, being clinically obese. This only takes us so far, though. Irrespective, he appears mentally ill to me, and has done for many months.

161224 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #722 of 2057 🔗

I agree, he appears unhinged to us. All those weird fist gestures, the quasi-Nazi salute and the grinning, not to mention the fact that he obviously doesn’t have a clue what he’s talking about. We never thought he was a clown; we thought he was dangerous and nasty. The fact that he’s now a puppet of whoever’s running the show doesn’t make him less so. MW

161244 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #723 of 2057 🔗

Boris recovered far too quickly to ever have been on a ventilator / close to death

161247 ▶▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Victoria, -3, #724 of 2057 🔗

He was very unwell and there is no reason to believe anything else.

This virus is nasty for a reasonable minority of people, and it comes across as completely heartless to suggest otherwise.

161257 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Lucan Grey, 3, #725 of 2057 🔗

Must do better, could try harder. Confined to barracks for refresher training. MW

161269 ▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Lucan Grey, 4, #726 of 2057 🔗

Maybe so but if you expect me to feel any sympathy for him after the “heart” he has shown this country and it’s people you can whistle.

161324 ▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Lucan Grey, 2, #727 of 2057 🔗

Why is it heartless?
It’s a perfectly reasonable hypothesis. And one that I share.

The virus was ‘nasty for a reasonable minority of people’.

There is no firm evidence that it remains ‘nasty’ for anybody.

161375 ▶▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Lucan Grey, 6, #728 of 2057 🔗


For what he has done to this country he should be imprisoned for the rest of his life.

162295 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Lucan Grey, #729 of 2057 🔗

He was clearly very unwell – you could see that in his face, especially that evening he clapped the NHS from outside Downing St, shortly before going into hospital.

Maybe as he was PM he was put into an ICU before he reached the illness threshold that may have been standard for a ‘normal’ patient – I have no idea if this is the case, of course, it’s just my speculation.

He was never on a ventilator, as I recall.

Whatever the reason, physically he’s clearly a different man from that of last February.

161202 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 34, #730 of 2057 🔗


Simon Dolan’s announcement – ‘We are today applying to Court for an urgent hearing and injunction to overturn the new lockdown laws. If the injunction is granted any official who tries to impose the lockdown laws will be in contempt of Court

Case should be heard next week.’

Come on sonnnnnnn

161204 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Poppy, 1, #731 of 2057 🔗

Just seen this but you beat me to it with posting! 🙂

161213 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Poppy, #732 of 2057 🔗

Which ones are the new ones?

161246 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Poppy, #734 of 2057 🔗

Great news!!

161214 Janice21, replying to Janice21, 2, #735 of 2057 🔗

I just heard yesterday that Bill Gates met with Epstein a few times? Holy hell the plot thickens!

161218 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to Janice21, 1, #736 of 2057 🔗

Old Bill loved to party on Fantasy Island and make sure all the kids are well catered for!

161220 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to Janice21, 1, #737 of 2057 🔗

Along with his other mate Prince ‘Randy’ Andy!

161227 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Janice21, 3, #738 of 2057 🔗

Several times – search ZeroHedge for the pictures of them together. He has already put out his apology in November 2019 – curious timing!


161230 ▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #739 of 2057 🔗

Oh so he is sorry for beasting kids…ah well…that’s cool!

161304 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Janice21, 2, #740 of 2057 🔗

Oh yes.
Thought everyone knew this.
Many meetings, and he was on the flight log of Epstein’s private jet.
It’s really no surprise that Epstein was ‘Epsteined’.

Now, per the Times, sources and documents say that Gates met with Epstein on “numerous occasions—including at least three times at Mr. Epstein’s palatial Manhattan townhouse, and at least once staying late into the night.” The Times also reported that Gates’ employees went on “multiple visits” to Epstein’s property and that Epstein pitched Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and JPMorgan Chase on a “multibillion-dollar charitable fund,” which could have resulted in Epstein picking up “enormous fees” in the tens of millions.
The first meeting was on Jan. 31, 2011, when Gates met with Epstein, former Miss Sweden Dr. Eva Andersson-Dubin (spouse of billionaire hedge funder Glenn Dubin), and the Dubins’ 15-year-old daughter. At the time, Epstein’s reputation was a convicted sex offender was known. That gathering started at 8:00 p.m. and lasted hours, with the Times reporting that Gates wrote to colleagues the next day, “A very attractive Swedish woman and her daughter dropped by and I ended up staying there quite late.” That year, Gates was also seen talking privately with Epstein at a TED conference in California and visited Epstein again at his New York mansion with others, including then-senior JPMorgan exec James E. Stanley and former Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers.
Around that time, sources told the paper, Epstein was pitching both the Gates Foundation and JPMorgan on beginning a charitable fund to operate in tandem with the two institutions’ Global Health Investment Fund. In late 2011, Gates’ employees met with Epstein at Gates’ instruction, with sources telling the paper he said his shady 2007 plea deal and conviction was no worse than “stealing a bagel.”


161222 RickH, #741 of 2057 🔗

Interesting CEBM item on the latest ONS mortality figures. Worth looking at for the facts (although I continue to have reservations about the term ‘excess deaths’) :


161225 AnotherSceptic, replying to AnotherSceptic, 16, #742 of 2057 🔗

Matt Wankock has just said this about the local lockdowns imposed in the north east of England.
Reported on the Manchester evening news website at 11:34am this morning.

“ I feel personal responsibility for the record number of tests that are being done in this country.
I feel personal responsibility for the fact that the vast majority of people in Hull and across the country can get a test within six miles of where they live, and get the test results back – the majority of them – the next day.
I feel personal responsibility for the biggest contact tracing programme that this country has ever seen with the support of the armed forces, the NHS, brilliant civil servants and the private sector working together.
I think it’s that sort of coming together we need to get through this virus.”

Utter wanker of a man.

161232 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to AnotherSceptic, 11, #743 of 2057 🔗

He makes me physically ill just looking at him

161248 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Janice21, 5, #744 of 2057 🔗

Especially when you know of his connections to Nicole Junkermann.

161331 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Carrie, 1, #745 of 2057 🔗

Thanks Carrie – I looked at her profile on Wiki, and read this:

I do not understand who she is – apparently she had cofounded and sold a multimillion pound gaming portal before she was 21!

161459 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #746 of 2057 🔗
161465 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Carrie, #747 of 2057 🔗

did not know that

says it all..

161245 ▶▶ mjr, replying to AnotherSceptic, 3, #748 of 2057 🔗

this is the big difference.
He is proud of this … he thinks it is a great achievement.
Whereas we just think this record number of tests is what is perpetuating the lockdown by producing positive tests that they can call cases. Which he probably knows .

161336 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to mjr, 1, #749 of 2057 🔗

Yes, I thought it was an apology.
Usually the phrase I feel personally responsible is said at the press conference when they step down.

One can dream….

161341 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Silke David, #750 of 2057 🔗

Or maybe someone with video editing skills and a bit of time to spare could create such a conference ? 🙂

161250 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to AnotherSceptic, 1, #751 of 2057 🔗

Please tell me he didn’t actually say that.

161279 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to AnotherSceptic, 2, #753 of 2057 🔗

That’s a marvellous confession statement.
Will he be so willing to take personal responsibility in the court of enquiry?
Is this is a devious move by those behind the scenes, to absolve themselves of responsibility.
‘We only gave scientific advice; the Govt decided upon and enacted the policies.

161290 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Kevin 2, 1, #754 of 2057 🔗

I felt Vallance was subtly shifting the blame with that statement.

161339 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #755 of 2057 🔗

Agree. I also thought his demeanor was one of ‘I don’t give a f… any more’.

161291 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to AnotherSceptic, 5, #756 of 2057 🔗

Will he take personal responsibility for the care homes residences whose deaths he contributed to? For the children whose future prospects are now in jeopardy? For those who have lost jobs and business? I could go on.

161417 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to AnotherSceptic, 2, #757 of 2057 🔗

Wankcock “don’t believe the stories you hear about people being told to go hundreds of miles for a test…” Liar.

161229 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 6, #758 of 2057 🔗

children found to have covid-19 antibodies from samples taken before pandemic


161249 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to steve_w, 2, #759 of 2057 🔗

Excellent spot.

PCR Test = Chocolate teapot

161266 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Tim Bidie, 3, #760 of 2057 🔗

this is an anti-body test. they created an antibody test to see who had had it in the past. they tested it on old samples to make sure it came up negative but it often came up positive.

ie children can be immune to covid-19 due to antibodies they had from similar infections many years ago.

kids get coronavirues several times a year – adults once every 2 years.

kids had these antibodies at levels of 60% – probably from school mixing

worth a listen from about 15 minutes

161334 ▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to steve_w, 3, #761 of 2057 🔗

A really good find.

So all those children immune to covid 19 might very well have covid 19 RNA from fighting off covid 19 and still test positive from a PCR test?

To summarise, false-positive COVID-19 swab test results might be increasingly likely in the current epidemiological climate in the UK, with substantial consequences….’


161357 ▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Tim Bidie, 3, #762 of 2057 🔗

yep. The broad point I took away from the bbc article was that though covid-19 is novel, it is similar enough that many people will be immune from exposure to similar viruses in the past. That means herd immunity might not be 80% but some lower number N% where we find N from watching the virus burn itself out – in Sweden for example.

161397 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to steve_w, 2, #763 of 2057 🔗

A great deal has been written about this…..but our government just seems to ignore the likely much lower herd immunity threshold to the great detriment of the entire country:

The distribution of these viruses in different animal species might result in periodic human contact that induces ORF1-specific T cells with cross-reactive abilities against SARS-CoV-2. Understanding the distribution, frequency and protective capacity of pre-existing structural or non-structural protein-associated SARS-CoV-2 cross-reactive T cells could be important for the explanation of some of the differences in infection rates or pathology observed during this pandemic.’


An immediate cost benefit study of Britain’s covid 19 measures is required, followed by an independent public inquiry.

161386 ▶▶▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Tim Bidie, 3, #764 of 2057 🔗

Thanks for the article.The best I’ve read about testing problems and also important as from Royal Brompton Hospital.Should be important for everybody thinking testing is solving the problem.

161286 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tim Bidie, 4, #765 of 2057 🔗

Interesting thread on Twitter re Sweden and PCR cycles testing:

Sweden only regards tests that are positive at 20 cycles and below as being truly infectious, it would seem:

Above 38: neg.
Between 36-38 possibly positive but not infectious.
36-20 positive.
20 and below: highly infectious.

Read the thread – I’m no scientist so a lot of it goes over my head!

161466 ▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Carrie, 1, #766 of 2057 🔗

Could Sweden invade Britain again, please, and take over?

We don’t have any armed forces any longer, so there shouldn’t be any kind of problems…..

161620 ▶▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Carrie, #767 of 2057 🔗

“This is what I have seen, in the Swedish doctors weekly news from Sahlgrenska in Gothenburg. Above 38: neg. Between 36-38 possibly positive but not infectious. 36-20 positive. 20 and below: highly infectious
This the Swedish article above google translation

161838 ▶▶▶▶ Willow, replying to Carrie, #768 of 2057 🔗
161243 Lucan Grey, replying to Lucan Grey, 5, #769 of 2057 🔗

Flu vaccination does not reduce hospitalizations, death in older adults

Which means any SARS vaccine is likely to have the same problems – and probably won’t protect the elderly who are the ones who suffer the most impact from the virus.

What the out in that case then?

Anybody else getting the feeling that this entire pantomime is really about avoiding certain middle class millennials getting a bad cough?

161280 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Lucan Grey, 1, #770 of 2057 🔗

BCG vaccination looks promising for the elderly, if trials show that it has a protective effect against covid 19.

‘198 elderly people were given either a placebo or a BCG vaccine upon discharge from the hospital.’

“In addition to the clear effect of BCG vaccination on infections in general, the most important observation was that BCG could mainly protect against respiratory infections: BCG-vaccinated elderly people had 75% fewer respiratory infections than the elderly who received placebo.”


161288 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tim Bidie, 2, #771 of 2057 🔗

Possibly, but I would not put it past Bill G to see that it is ‘spiked’ with something deadly alongside..

161251 Stephanos, replying to Stephanos, 14, #772 of 2057 🔗

I think that, gradually, a sceptic message is getting through. Yesterday we had a delivery from Laithwaite’s and the delivery driver was unmasked; I complimented him on that and he gave me a thumbs up and a big smile. Today, the Tesco delivery driver was similarly unmasked; I complimented him and HE began to tell us about the small percentage who had died from it whereas 250,000 die from cancer and so forth. Sadly, I did get the impression that I was alone in this – complimenting him on being unmasked that is.
Do compliment them, regularly, when you meet these people. The message will get through.

161358 ▶▶ Jim Binks, replying to Stephanos, 4, #773 of 2057 🔗

Same experience with the Waitrose driver. Un masked smiling and very anti lockdown. Wont give any other details its probably a sacking offence today,

161448 ▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Jim Binks, 2, #774 of 2057 🔗

I’ve only seen 1 waitrose delivery person wear a mask. I assume for lack of oxygen reasons it is not safe for them to drive masked or carry my considerably heavy gin order masked. I’m happy with that.

161400 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Stephanos, 2, #775 of 2057 🔗

I don’t get deliveries but I make sure to smile at the increasing number of shop workers going exempt

161502 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Stephanos, 2, #776 of 2057 🔗

I get a lot of deliveries and most are unmasked, though the place parcel and jump back is a bit weird.
Last week I asked the (unmasked) driver if he’d lift the heavy box over the threshold for me and he didn’t look too happy but the rest have been fine.

I’ve had three tradesmen here on different days this week. No masks, no abnormal distancing. Yesterday, the plumber showed me a photo on his phone.
All perectly normal!

161631 ▶▶ annie, replying to Stephanos, 2, #777 of 2057 🔗

I do, I do. And I sympathise openly and loudly with those who are forced to wear the filthy things but plainly detest them.

161252 Kevin 2, 3, #778 of 2057 🔗

One of the worst things I have seen yet.
Fauci remotely indoctrinating US schoolchildren.


161254 PhilipF, replying to PhilipF, 6, #779 of 2057 🔗

I am thinking of going full “elephant man” in regard to face coverings. I think it makes a statement. Now where do I get a sack…

“I am not an animal! I am a human being! I … am … a … man!”

161300 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to PhilipF, 1, #780 of 2057 🔗

Careful you don’t get arrested, or set upon for not taking it seriously

161320 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to PoshPanic, 3, #781 of 2057 🔗

I’d love to be set upon, I would be legally obliged to defend myself.

161313 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to PhilipF, 2, #782 of 2057 🔗

I got a linen bag off ebay for when I am forced to use a covering, 223708120295 for example.

I haven’t needed to use it yet, despite attending my hospital appointment, lung function BTW.

162078 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #783 of 2057 🔗

Isn’t this what they put over your head before a hanging?

161258 Mark, replying to Mark, 9, #784 of 2057 🔗

Encouraging signs of resistance in Madrid:

Madrid’s local rulers REJECT Spanish government attempts to force the city into second full lockdown despite coronavirus cases increasing there faster than anywhere else in Europe

  • Madrid is to be put under partial lockdown, Spain’s government said Wednesday
  • The city reacted furiously to the plans, setting the scene for political battle
  • Setback for Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez’s left-wing coalition, which is trying to push for a stricter response in the opposition-ruled Spanish capital

“‘ The decision is not valid legally,’ Madrid health chief Enrique Ruiz Escudero repeatedly told a news conference last night.

Accusing the Spanish government of ignoring signs that the outbreak is stabilising, Escudero insisted that ‘the situation is controlled’.

‘We have always anticipated the hospital capacity to contain this pandemic, and we’ve had several days for which the balance between discharges and admissions is favorable,’ he said. ‘The government is in a hurry to lock Madrid down.’
Madrid is leading the resurgence of the virus in Spain and Europe. The region’s infection rate is 2.5 times higher than the national average of 294 cases and seven times higher the average rate in Europe, which is 94 per 100,000 residents.

Sanchez’s government wants to see tougher action in Madrid that does not only target working-class neighborhoods, as do existing restrictions in the parts of the city with the highest contagion rates.

But Madrid’s centre-right government argues that the citywide lockdown would further damage the economy after months of standstill.

In addition to Madrid, officials from three other regions led by conservative and center-right parties and from the separatist-ruled northeastern Catalonia rejected the government’s document at a meeting Wednesday.

161284 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Mark, 4, #785 of 2057 🔗

Strange – I work with a team of 6 people in Madrid daily. They don’t know anyone who has been ill.

161298 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to leggy, 5, #786 of 2057 🔗

Not really all that strange. Based on the figures quoted, the “infection rate” works out at less than 1 in 100, and assuming that means positive test results the majority of those will be false positives or asymptomatic anyway. You’d be pretty unlikely to know anyone who is actually ill.

161315 ▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Mark, #787 of 2057 🔗

Agreed, but I was being facetious.

161333 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to leggy, #788 of 2057 🔗

Fair enough…

161307 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Mark, 4, #789 of 2057 🔗

According to El Pais, Madrid is accepting the government edict to lockdown, but challenging it in court. My son is a Spanish speaker and says from social media, there are large protests already – gathering since around 12 local time.

161332 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #790 of 2057 🔗

Madrid is accepting the government edict to lockdown, but challenging it in court

Yes, that’s confirmed in the Mail story. Seems to be a case of obeying the law while seeking to get it overturned:

“‘ You cannot lock down everybody,’ Madrid leader Isabel Diaz Ayuso told Spanish radio today, adding: ‘I’m sure the Madrid plan is the best: quick tests, quarantines and life goes on.’
Ayuso is preparing to take the Spanish government to court but said today that Madrid is ‘not in rebellion’ and would obey the rules until they are overturned.

161453 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Mark, 2, #791 of 2057 🔗

My son was in Madrid in July. It was mask nightmare – all inside spaces, and rigorously enforced (you do not mess with police). Clearly that worked!

161268 DocRC, replying to DocRC, 16, #792 of 2057 🔗

I posted this earlier but it bears repeating: A paramedic I work with in my sports medicine job had one of the home tests. He broke off the end of the swab and put it in the transport medium (all without it going anywhere near his nose or throat). Guess what? It came back positive! I think the pillar 2 (community) tests are all done by the private sector- Deloitte got the contract to organise this- and they are going to a Ct of up to 42 (Ct=cycle threshold, the point at which you decide the test is -ve or +ve). The european norm is 30. At a Ct of 42 you will get many more positives as it amplifies any stray DNA in the sample (“background noise”) and increase the percentage of positives, most of which will be false. The way round this, of course is to stop testing people without symptoms because if you are not ill, you are not a “case”!

161275 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to DocRC, 4, #793 of 2057 🔗

There is no point in running a PCR testing lab if you don’t find positives is there?

161276 ▶▶ RickH, replying to DocRC, 4, #794 of 2057 🔗

I doubt that many of us will be surprised at this.

The testing regime has little relationship to real science.

161337 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to DocRC, #795 of 2057 🔗

Great post

161287 Now More Than Ever, 5, #796 of 2057 🔗

Excellent pushback from the Middlesbrough mayor.

161295 PoshPanic, replying to PoshPanic, 3, #797 of 2057 🔗

Good one from Norman Fenton, challenging the PMs claim on infection rates..


161377 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to PoshPanic, 1, #798 of 2057 🔗

Has he been able to actually produced said statistic? Infections per 100,000 by tests carried out?

161297 DRW, replying to DRW, 11, #799 of 2057 🔗

Made the mistake of reading an ultra-cringey email from university management
this morning. You can fill the bingo card with the familiar regurgitated platitudes about “safety”, “critical”, “essential”, “worrying”, “we’re all in it together”, “behave to be back to normal” etc. Then they get in the obligatory doublespeak by saying “people” now think more social activity is “anti-social” because “tolerance has diminised”.
Also, it’s supposedly inevitable more students and staff will test positive. So the safety bollocks can’t be THAT brilliant then, they must be desperate to start mass swabbing.

Bascially it’s a localised version of the cut and paste, gas-light civil sewage propaganda, no surprise given academia execs are also puppeteered shit-spouting, parasitic cunts.

161330 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to DRW, 4, #800 of 2057 🔗

Take the fight to them. You students are supposed to be the more intelligent part of society. 🙂

Back in my day … yadda yadda yadda.

161806 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to JohnB, #801 of 2057 🔗

Unfortunately the majority have been badly brainwashed.

161350 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to DRW, 8, #802 of 2057 🔗

I have received the text of an automatic email that will be sent in reply to students who snitch on others for breaches of social distancing and other Covid regulations in halls. It contains the following line, which throws some light on the rationale behind university decision making:
please be assured that where necessary, the University will take action, including potential disciplinary action to protect both the city and University community.’

The important point is this: it is implied that the university is imposing measures on students not only, or even primarily, to protect themselves but to protect ‘the city.’

Legal eagles, do you know whether universities have a duty of care to the wider community, such that it could justify the active infliction of harm upon their own students? I take it as uncontroversial on here that university restrictions on students in the name of Covid safety do inflict emotional harm, and are likely to exacerbate the suicide risk as well as the risk of mental illness more generally.

How long before this results in fatalities? What shabby, disgusting assurances has the regime given to vice-chancellors?

161363 ▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Ovis, 1, #803 of 2057 🔗

Article 3 of the HRA surely applies?

161374 ▶▶ Julian, replying to DRW, 5, #804 of 2057 🔗

I’ve emailed one uni asking how it is that schools are now open and offering in-person teaching but their lectures “for term 1” are online only. Waiting a response.

161380 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to DRW, 4, #805 of 2057 🔗

Locally second and third year students* are going home because they don’t want to get locked down here until after Xmas.
Some will no doubt be infected because wild parties so taking it home to mum and dad, and granny. Project fear has thus summoned up the worst of both worlds, nice one boris.

*Who live in shared houses, not halls of residence.

161429 ▶▶▶ sam, replying to karenovirus, #806 of 2057 🔗

if they don’t get a test they can’t be locked down
The ONS is paying £450 for people to get tested!

161487 ▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to sam, 1, #807 of 2057 🔗

if they test positive they won’t get a mortgage. long covid

161639 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to steve_w, #808 of 2057 🔗

Lack of mortgage: Long Covid symptom no. 174.

161301 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 11, #809 of 2057 🔗

I have been wondering about the face coverings situation in France (and other countries). In France wearing face coverings in public places is illegal and one can be fined for doing so. In France failing to wear face coverings in public places is illegal and one can be fined for doing so.

161346 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Steve Hayes, #810 of 2057 🔗


161369 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Moomin, 4, #811 of 2057 🔗

Wot PoshPanic alludes to, it’s illegal to wear a veil but compulsory to wear a mask.

161408 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Moomin, #812 of 2057 🔗

Could you be more explicit?

161351 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Steve Hayes, #813 of 2057 🔗

Do you mean face covering for religious reasons?

161395 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to PoshPanic, 4, #814 of 2057 🔗

No. Whilst it is true that the 2010 law was introduced in response to the Islamic practice, France being a secular country, its parliamentarians framed the law to ban face coverings whether Islamic or not. So the virus face masks are illegal under the 2010 law and are mandatory under the coronavirus legislation.

161303 Dan Clarke, 11, #815 of 2057 🔗

Sitting in Parliament today, they laugh and joke with JSM, while the rest of our lives are ruined. No wonder people live with anger every day now.

161322 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 19, #816 of 2057 🔗

Jeremy Vine show “why the Covid north south divide ! ?”
People coming up with all sort of daft ideas about why nowhere south of Solihull in England is under Special Measures.
Deprivation, unemployment, overcrowding, type of work etc. Its all bollocks.

By the time the Covid made its way up north they were already under lockdown which was instigated after Covid got busy in London.
The reappearance of the terrible Pandemic is therefore a continuation of the suppressed first wave having another pop at those hiding first time around. Just as we said it would months ago.

161347 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to karenovirus, 7, #817 of 2057 🔗

I think this is right. it swept through the london and the southeast and now we pretty much have reached immunity. lockdown just delayed it for some ‘hard to reach’ places

161348 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to karenovirus, 7, #818 of 2057 🔗

I noticed last night he was going full on sceptic. The amount of confused comments trying desperately to not admit that we’ve been had.

161428 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to PoshPanic, 1, #819 of 2057 🔗

Glimmer of hope!

161382 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to karenovirus, 1, #820 of 2057 🔗


161449 ▶▶ Will, replying to karenovirus, #821 of 2057 🔗

If I could thank you twice, Karenovirus, I would. The only thing that doesn’t fit is the South west still being relatively unaffected still but I assume that is down to population density. The other factor, which won’t be mentioned on Jeremy Vine, is race.

161467 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Will, #822 of 2057 🔗

its where londoners have their weekend retreats. it will have been hit hard in the first wave

161526 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Will, #823 of 2057 🔗

I assume that is down to population density.

Well I for one don’t think people in the North are any denser than the rest of us …

Evertonians maybe.

161642 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to JohnB, #824 of 2057 🔗

Surely the densest population in the UK centres on Westminster, Holyrood, and Cardiff Bay?

161877 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to annie, #825 of 2057 🔗

Don’t forget Stormont! They don’t like any implication that they are not in the UK!

161646 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Will, 2, #826 of 2057 🔗

Yes, it’s never taken off down here in Devon and Cornwall. Mrs TJN and I often speculate on why. She thinks it’s because we all had it at the turn of the year, when there was a nasty and weird bug going round here which in retrospect caused classic covid symptoms – my private emails around New Year contain loads of references to me not being able to taste anything, so not enjoying the seasonal lunches.

It’s possible we all had it then, but I’m not fully convinced – especially as the March-May hospital curves for here appear textbook for it arriving in February. Then again there are double curves in some countries, without it being clear why (climatic conditions possibly?).

As to population density – the towns and cities in Devon and Cornwall are indeed densely populated, while of course the countryside isn’t. Sweden in miniature perhaps. One might expect Plymouth and Exeter (both university towns) to have suffered the same infection rates as comparable cities elsewhere.

My favourite theory, which I put about back in March, is that covid doesn’t like the sea air.

161476 ▶▶ Ed Phillips, replying to karenovirus, 1, #827 of 2057 🔗

Except we’re not seeing a serious increase in deaths in the North East.

161338 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 8, #828 of 2057 🔗

SARS-CoV-2 viral load peaks prior to symptom onset: a systematic review and individual-pooled analysis of coronavirus viral load from 66 studies
SARS-CoV-2 viral load peaks prior to symptom onset and remains elevated for up to three weeks, while MERS-CoV and SARS-CoV viral loads peak after symptom onset. SARS-CoV-2, MERS-CoV, and SARS-CoV had median viral shedding durations of 4.8, 4.2, and 1.2 days after symptom onset.
 So if there was an easy treatment available (HCQ or Ivermectin combined with Doxycycline/AZT and zinc ?) it should be given instantly at the time of diagnosis both for treatment and reducing virus shedding

161490 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to swedenborg, 1, #829 of 2057 🔗

Most certainly, (except where there is a specific contra-indication).
It’s how half the world are responding to the ‘demic.
And countries such as India use it widely as a prophylactic for health workers.

By the way, with reference to the Recovery trial loading dose of 2400mg , the BNF state:-

“Hydroxychloroquine is very toxic in overdosage; overdosage is extremely hazardous and difficult to treat. Urgent advice from the National Poisons Information Service is essential. Life-threatening features include arrhythmias (which can have a very rapid onset) and convulsions (which can be intractable).
And on recommended dose:-
200–400 mg daily, daily maximum dose to be based on ideal body-weight; maximum 6.5 mg/kg per day”


They can’t say they didn’t know…

161524 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to swedenborg, 2, #830 of 2057 🔗

HCQ is effective on its own, but also acts as a Zinc ionophore, allowing for cell membrane permeability.
And Zinc supplementation is a good idea anyway.
If one cannot access HCQ, other ionophores such as Quercetin may perform a similar role to Zinc.


This combination has widespread potential application, not least in Oncology.

161349 RickH, replying to RickH, 8, #831 of 2057 🔗

I pondered how to respond to my (Labour) MP’s non-response in yesterday’s vote in the Commons.

In the end, I felt the best response was an e-mail to the 6 Labour rebels thanking them for their principled stand, just copied to said local MP.

I didn’t think there was much point in a personal rant falling on deaf ears.

161421 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RickH, 1, #832 of 2057 🔗

I noticed that most of the abstensions were Labour.

Given Sir Kneelalot’s constant assurance that he follows the government’s hardline lockdown approach, this is a very political statement.

Not that it helps the electorate much, of course.

161515 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #833 of 2057 🔗

I’m afraid it’s not as positive as that, Cheezila.

Labour were never going to support the government directly in this. The only question was whether members would vote against .

That only 6 did that was a massive blow to any credibility as an opposition. I was not surprised, given Starmer’s record which I have watched with interest. He is clearly an establishment shill – a safe pair of hands from their point of view who, if in four years time replaces Johnson, poses absolutely no real threat to their interests.

That was what the campaign against Corbyn was all about, going far beyond normal political clamour into the realms of propaganda that we have seen again in the Covid coverage – full of falsehood and simple omission.

I say that, not because I’m a Corbyn supporter (and he has been no sceptic in this current battle) , but as a matter of record backed by evidence – such that even right-leaning (but honest) journalists such as Peter Oborne have written extensively about the corruption behind it.

It was the parallels in BBC coverage between the two situations that originally alerted me to the fact that this ‘pandemic’ was something other than it appeared, and set me off on a trail of data-digging.

161354 Cheezilla, 6, #834 of 2057 🔗

Spotted this in the comments on the Beeb website:

Good Sign, “COVID-19 PLEASE KEEP LEFT”, so people go right to avoid Covid-19


161355 calchas, replying to calchas, 7, #835 of 2057 🔗

Have we flattened the curve yet?

161398 ▶▶ Liam, replying to calchas, #836 of 2057 🔗

Free beer. (Tomorrow).

161569 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Liam, #837 of 2057 🔗

Tomorrow never comes sI kept getting told as a kid “is it tomorrow yet”

161356 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 6, #838 of 2057 🔗

From Toby’s text.
The chap whose COPD test was “not allowed ” reminds me of being requested to book a telephone appointment for my annual COPD/asthma appointment, hopefully I will be allowed to breath heavily down the phone ( oo er mrs.).

161413 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to karenovirus, #839 of 2057 🔗

I’d be inclined to swear volubly down the phone!

161418 ▶▶ muzzle, replying to karenovirus, 9, #840 of 2057 🔗

My daughter had a telephone appointment for her hearing problems. I told her to say “Pardon?” and “What?” to every question.

161425 ▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to muzzle, 5, #841 of 2057 🔗

I did that yesterday at my hospital appointment (genuine poor hearing). So the masked wonders had to abandon social distancing to talk to me. Hilarious.

161458 ▶▶▶ Janice21, replying to muzzle, 1, #842 of 2057 🔗

My 2.5 year old son was referred to audiology just before all this started and they said they wont see him unless its urgent. So we are looking into going private as God knows how long it will take for him to get his hearing checked.

161494 ▶▶▶▶ muzzle, replying to Janice21, #843 of 2057 🔗

Unfortunately, going private is not that easy for under 18s. I have a BUPA policy that I’ve used for the rest of the family. A few years ago, they stopped being able to see under 18s at Spire hospitals, so unless your hearing specialist has their own facility, their only option is to see them at an NHS facility which might not be possible.

161381 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 7, #844 of 2057 🔗

Serious question: When we have a rash of “cases” or positive PCR tests in meat packing factories, is it possible that the PCR test is picking up viral RNA from animal viruses that people have got “infected” with but that will not cause any symptoms in humans?

161384 ▶▶ helen, replying to Two-Six, 6, #845 of 2057 🔗

If you read CORONA FALSE ALAM? you will find that one researcher has tested all kinds things. One thing they tested was a Papya fruit..it tested positive.

161388 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to helen, 3, #846 of 2057 🔗

yer I hear about the papaya and the goat testing positive.

161389 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Two-Six, 2, #847 of 2057 🔗

Personally I think it’s more likely that it’s a) contaminated samples or b) genuine high prevalence of (potentially asymptomatic, largely harmless) spread due to close working conditions and regulated humidity / circulated air. We’ve similar high proportions of positives in prisons, as an example – and animal viruses are unlikely there.

161407 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tee Ell, #848 of 2057 🔗

Ah but Wankock said the virus is only passed on in households!

161439 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Tee Ell, 4, #849 of 2057 🔗

The other factor with abattoirs etc is that the workforce don’t see any sunlight, so are likely to be vitamin D deficient, and generally, in my experience, lead appallingly unhealthy lifestyles, which will further compromise their immune systems.

161416 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Two-Six, #850 of 2057 🔗

I think there is some evidence that such situations involve surfaces and temperatures that are conducive to the virus.

161617 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Two-Six, #851 of 2057 🔗

Bear in mind that the source of the virus is alleged to be from animals. There is no reason to presume that animal carcasses couldn’t have coronaviruses on/in them. The PCR test could then pick up false positive results.

162107 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to p02099003, #852 of 2057 🔗

Exactly. This is what I am thinking, there must be aerosols a-go-go of all kinds of animal viruses everywhere and all sorts of contact transmission handling bits of chopped-up animals all day long. These guys must be saturated in animal viruses.

161618 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Two-Six, #853 of 2057 🔗

Possibly, from memory cases from these factories are nearly always asymptomatic

162146 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Two-Six, #854 of 2057 🔗

When this happened at Toennis in Germany, I heard a doctor say especially cattle are riddled with c viruses.
These, in the meat cutting process, can enter the human body and therefore test positive.
And it seems the virus likes the slightly damp, very cool air.

161387 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 2, #855 of 2057 🔗

I have to ring my daughter’s school at 1.30pm to say why I object to the pressurised message in the newsletter (for the 2nd time). Here it is… any ideas what I should say?

Face masks
Although it is not a statutory requirement outside, we would urge all parents to wear a mask or face covering at school, when dropping off and collecting their children – in the car park, along the paths, in the playground and anywhere on the school grounds, as they are often closer than the recommended 2 metres. We would appreciate your co-operation, in order to protect those who are ‘vulnerable’. Thank you to those parents who have been wearing masks this week

161390 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Country Mumkin, 9, #856 of 2057 🔗

Ignore it

161424 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Winston Smith, 2, #857 of 2057 🔗

This could be the best option, although all the other parents will wear and normalise it out of fear.

161391 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Country Mumkin, 8, #858 of 2057 🔗

Can you please supply your evidence that supports your stance?

161401 ▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #859 of 2057 🔗

Yep! Better to challenge on the science than roll over and falsely claim exemption, in my view.

161427 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Schrodinger, 1, #861 of 2057 🔗

Thanks, that’s helpful.

161510 ▶▶▶▶ JohnMac, replying to Country Mumkin, #862 of 2057 🔗

You could point out that the death rate is now so low that under normal circumstances we would not know there even was a virus.

Because with such a low death rate it would suggest that this should be a permanent policy, summer or winter, rain or shine, indefinitely and forever.

161399 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Country Mumkin, 12, #863 of 2057 🔗

If masks worked, those wearing them would be protected!

People should be treated as adults and allowed to do their own risk assessment.

The vulnerable can choose for themselves to stand further apart. The rest should be allowed to use their common sense.

161420 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #864 of 2057 🔗

I agree. I think the Head has been pressurised by the virtue signalling mothers and teachers. So, they win power over all of the parents now as I know most people will be wearing a mask. I need the headteacher to say it is ‘choice’.

161444 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #865 of 2057 🔗

As I see it you have a few options:

  1. Ignore the letter.
  2. Challenge the letter. Do so on the grounds that research in this area is so uncertain as to render their benefits at best marginal and at worst exacerbate the problem and introduce other health concerns. Additionally, point out there are legitimate exemptions and law prevents people being challenged on these grounds.
  3. Acquiesce to the letter.

Personally, I prefer to choose my battles and I choose ones I’m confident of winning. In this case I’d probably go 3 because you’re very unlikely to persuade them of the poor science supporting the regulations and people seem to be utterly unaware of the potential health issues, which is exactly why there are exemptions. This is coupled with a potential side-effect of making your childrens lives miserable.

If you feel sufficiently strongly that the principle supersedes these concerns, then arm yourself with the best literature regarding why masks are actually worse than useless. It will almost certainly fall on deaf ears either because the individuals have already convinced themselves of their efficacy or they simply upholding bureaucratic convention and it’s more than their job is worth.

If you don’t care about any of that, just ignore it.

161452 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Cicatriz, #866 of 2057 🔗

Sorry, should be a reply to the OP, not you Cheeze

161486 ▶▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Cicatriz, 5, #867 of 2057 🔗

Hi all and Cicatrix… here’s my draft email…[I’m thinking that I can get away with this because of the work I do….]

Thanks for your newsletter. I felt I should share some info from a research and strategy project that I have been commissioned to do.

I was asked to review some items of public domain information, understand people’s habits, attitudes and the semiotic representations of communication in a Covid-19 environment. Here’s some top-line info re mask-wearing.

  • The evidence for transmission outdoors is conclusive in that it is incredibly rare. Chinese research spotted 2 in 7000 cases back in the early stages. Current studies of 25k cases in a recent review found a tiny number of cases.
  • The purpose of wearing masks is to prevent droplet expulsion and tiny aerosol transmission. Outdoors the chances of being exposed to a large viral load is miniscule.
  • Those in vulnerable categories can make their own risk assessments and choose to wear a mask to minimise their risk in non-statutory settings.
  • Here is another document regarding the law that I was asked to review in terms of people’s habits and behaviours. https://www.laworfiction.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Face-Covering-Exemption-Notice-with-Law-Explained-24-July-2020.pdf

There were other aspects too, regarding the normalisation of mask-wearing etc, although I probably can’t really divulge too much more.

Just thought you may find this information useful.

What do you think?

161501 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Country Mumkin, 3, #868 of 2057 🔗

That should do, better than a phone call. Your position is in writing.

Facemasks are just the worst thing ever……

What the hell is wrong with people????

161511 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #869 of 2057 🔗

I would go stronger. I would reference this study that says:

…and wearing a facial mask outside work increased probability of COVID-19 infection.

And argue that you are not willing to put other parents and children at increased risk.


161519 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Tee Ell, 5, #870 of 2057 🔗

Thanks for this. I’m going to use that link as follow up.

I’ve called office. the secretary agreed with me about all of it, off the record, and I’ve sent in that email. It will be a major win if we get a climb down…!

I’m still shaking.

I’ll report back.


161527 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #871 of 2057 🔗

I have untold respect for you for pushing back on this. Good luck!

161533 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Tee Ell, 2, #872 of 2057 🔗

Thanks Tee Ell. I will report back. I am so grateful for the support from you all today so I could do this. CM x

161512 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Country Mumkin, 2, #873 of 2057 🔗

“First, do no harm” / “Primum non nocere”

161576 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #874 of 2057 🔗

This is the basic tenet of the Mental Capacity Act, I have been told by my MP that the 2005 act has not been repealed or overtaken by any of the insidious legislation since March. Everyone aged 16+ is considered to have capacity unless othwise shown otherwise (very specific criteria). Note there is no upper age limit, therefore the vulnerable can also do their own risk assessment and make their own choices.

161402 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Country Mumkin, 15, #875 of 2057 🔗

Tell them they are insane and evil to be imposing this crazy shit on you. Tell them they are seriously damaging your childs mental health. Tell them they are seriously damaging your mental health. Tell they are jeopardising the relationship you have with them and your child.Tell them wearing masks is totally corrosive to human interaction. Tell them they are fools to believe anything the government says about covid 19. Tell them that wearing masks has hardly any scientific evidence to support the effectiveness, point out that the FLU and colds rising “exponentially” so they don’t work. Tell them it’s psychological warfare..

Tell them that mask wearing will seriously damage your child’s development.

Tell them they are just total Charlies and to get to hell with their bullshit. What are they going to do about it anyway?

161432 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Two-Six, 3, #876 of 2057 🔗

If only it were that simple. I’d love to. It will have ramifications for me and my daughter if I do that.

161435 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #877 of 2057 🔗

What will they do about it?

161779 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #878 of 2057 🔗

Hi CM,

I’ve written a reply to your question above.

It will have ramifications for me and my daughter if I do that.

I don’t see what they can do. I take the attitude that I am going to teach my children to stand up to nonsense and bullies.

One in particular is likely to want to do some form of adventure sports when he is older. Crucial to doing adventure sports is thinking for yourself and assessing risk, and if you don’t get it right you risk ending up in serious trouble. So I am going to be teaching him these things from as early as he is able to learn.

161489 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Two-Six, 2, #879 of 2057 🔗

Sorry, Two-Six, but ranting will have absolutely no effect other than to reinforce the ‘conspiracy theorist’ image.

161499 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to RickH, #880 of 2057 🔗

To be honest I could do better than a rant. Honestly but my sentiments are right here. These fools need to hear the truth about masks in clear plain language.

161406 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Country Mumkin, 9, #881 of 2057 🔗

Why should you have to explain yourself? If mask wearing is not a statutory requirement, you are by definition not required to do it.

161438 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Mabel Cow, 2, #882 of 2057 🔗

I agree. I just hate that all the parents will now wear one! Not just about me….

161480 ▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Country Mumkin, 5, #883 of 2057 🔗

I’ve printed one of my Everyone Dies posters and put in my car window so that the people at school can see it. I’m rather expecting to get my window smashed at some point, but at least the car’s insured. 🙂

161484 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Mabel Cow, 1, #884 of 2057 🔗


161495 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Mabel Cow, #885 of 2057 🔗

Goods Poster, I am going to print out a few of them and laminate them and stick em up in places…

162414 ▶▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Country Mumkin, #886 of 2057 🔗

As been said it’s not statutory, so don’t worry your kids will be proud they have such a brave mother .Better to see them off to school with a smile.

161410 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Country Mumkin, 9, #887 of 2057 🔗

“Please cite any RCT evidence (or any meta-study) that clearly indicates that face masks have any use in situations such as this.”

161436 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to RickH, 2, #888 of 2057 🔗

Thanks, I might do that….

161483 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Country Mumkin, 9, #889 of 2057 🔗

I guess that if you wanted to be more pointed, you might suggest that one of the areas of education that you expect for your children is scientific literacy and the ability to distinguish between evidence and assumption.

161522 ▶▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to RickH, 2, #890 of 2057 🔗

Like it!

161562 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Country Mumkin, 3, #891 of 2057 🔗

Got at least 42 links to studies that show they don’t.

161412 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Country Mumkin, #892 of 2057 🔗

Did they quote ‘vulnerable’ or did you do that?

161433 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #893 of 2057 🔗

That is word for word what is in newsletter. What are your thoughts?

161446 ▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Country Mumkin, 7, #894 of 2057 🔗

I would suggest that if they know that there are vulnerable people on site, they should tell those vulnerable people not to come to the school.

We are each responsible for our own safety. If a vulnerable person ventures out into this pandemic-scourged country of ours (ha!), that is their choice and their risk.

161557 ▶▶▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Mabel Cow, 2, #895 of 2057 🔗

This exactly. This idea that everyone is responsible for the safety of everyone else is completely absurd and we should never allow this principle to go unchallenged. At any time in your life, you could have been responsible for the death of any number of “vulnerable” people simply by going about your business while having the flu or even the common cold. People should be responsible for their own health and not expect the entire population to virtually cease normal living in order for them to be “safe”.

161450 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #896 of 2057 🔗

I replied below with my opinion, but I found it weird to quote ‘vulnerable’ in this case. Quoting a single word like that usually means it someone else’s opinion and not necessarily your own. Like you don’t believe it or something.

However, vulnerable people (i.e. those susceptible to Covid) really should not be on site.

161415 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Country Mumkin, 2, #897 of 2057 🔗

Either ignore it, or say as it is not a statutory requirement you will make your own assessment of risk and act appropriately.

161423 ▶▶ muzzle, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #898 of 2057 🔗

Why do you have to call them? What will happen if you don’t?

161430 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to muzzle, 7, #899 of 2057 🔗

Give me the phone number and I will call the fuckers up.

161440 ▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Two-Six, 3, #900 of 2057 🔗

I am very tempted to give you the number Two – Six.. very tempted.

161447 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Country Mumkin, 2, #901 of 2057 🔗

give me an email if you like perhaps I seriously can talk to them for you.

161485 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 1, #902 of 2057 🔗

I promise I wont swear at them or shout. I could probably hypnotise them.

161505 ▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Two-Six, 1, #903 of 2057 🔗

🤣 🤣 🤣

161509 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 2, #904 of 2057 🔗

Give us the phone number and we can ALL call the fuckers up

161442 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to muzzle, 1, #905 of 2057 🔗

I range to speak to someone and they said call back after lunch. My blood was boiling. I think I need to back away from the phone.

161492 ▶▶▶▶ Jenny, replying to Country Mumkin, 2, #906 of 2057 🔗

I would back away for a bit and think about a response. Feel more and more lucky about my son’s school. Seems sceptical and full of sceptical parents. I suspect lockdown zealots would take the view that parents willing to pack their children off to boarding school at 8 are clearly callous and uncaring so this would explain it!

161426 ▶▶ Achilles heel, replying to Country Mumkin, 3, #907 of 2057 🔗

The evidence for transmission outdoors is conclusive in that it is incredibly rare. Chinese research spotted 2 in 7000 cases back in the early stages. Current studies of 25k cases in a recent review found a tiny number of cases.

Plus the whole point of wearing masks is to prevent droplet expulsion and tiny aerosol transmission. Outdoors the chances of being exposed to a large viral load is just miniscule.

If the school believes this is protecting the vulnerable it is totally misguided. How many over 75 year olds pick up children from school? There is a complete misunderstanding on relative risk and vulnerability (unhelpfully perpetrated by the government). https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2521-4_reference.pdf?referringSource=articleShare

At the end of the day I think more people will be on your side than you imagine. Cite severe distress and carry on with a smile.

161474 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Achilles heel, 1, #908 of 2057 🔗

I agree with everything you say, but I do not think you will be able to persuade them of that irrespective of any literature you qoute. This is now about emotion and social convention, not rational thinking.

Early on in this escapade, I was astonished at the policies getting people to stay in doors. I’ve long thought that policy alone exacerbated risk by people getting less sunlight, less fresh air and less exercise.

161529 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Achilles heel, #909 of 2057 🔗

In case I am asked… (and I should have asked you earlier), please can you send any links for the 25k studies and the Chinese research. Thanks 🙂

161473 ▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to Country Mumkin, 4, #910 of 2057 🔗

To my mind the school only has a responsibility to managing the students in school time, on school premises not you as a parent at drop off/pick up. The school or head is completely overstepping the mark in its request, and you are not obliged to comply. Is there not an education director or governing body you can make a complaint to? Then you would not need to interact directly with the head. I think you will find that request is removed pretty darn quickly. Hold your head high lovey, keep the faith.

162076 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Girl down Under, #911 of 2057 🔗

Thank you… awaiting next steps, will report back…

161517 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #912 of 2057 🔗

Don’t wear a face mask but wear a yellow star of david

161592 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Country Mumkin, #913 of 2057 🔗

If it’s anything like my daughters old primary school, then reply, asking if the parents wearing masks, will also stop parking outside the school gates, creating a death trap.

161755 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Country Mumkin, 5, #914 of 2057 🔗

We’ve had almost the same from our daughter’s primary school (Deepest Devon). She started a month ago, and we got the email saying we’re supposed o wear muzzles when dropping off/picking up. So the headmaster got a stiff 800 word email back saying why we would not be wearing muzzles, to which we quickly got a lengthy reply which boiled down to ‘ok, but drop your child off a bit later to avoid everyone’, which I ignore.

I’m the only parent who doesn’t wear a muzzle, and I don’t care. If my child looks at me she is going to see my face .

So my advice is just ignore it.

A couple of weeks ago I posted an anecdote on here, which I’ll repost here:

End of my little girl’s first fortnight at school. Headmaster’s instructions that all parents dropping off children are to wear muzzles. I’m the only parent who doesn’t.

Today as she was going in, she seemed a bit reluctant – the first time this has happened. She looked back at me for reassurance. And saw my face . And then when in ok.

In that little instant an awful lot came home to me.

Fuck Johnson, Hancock, Fergusson, Whitty, the WHO, the whole damned lot of them.

162083 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to TJN, #915 of 2057 🔗

Yes TJN, I am with you. I am un-muzzled and my face is my reassurance for my daughter too. Thank you 🙂

162278 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #916 of 2057 🔗

Mrs TJN and I are united on this. I said to her that it is possible that some parents may never speak to us again. We are both fine with that.

Make up your own mind, stick to your guns, and all will be well in he end. And in the fullness of time it will garner the most respect, and will be a good example to the children. That’s my view on this.

162685 ▶▶▶▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to TJN, #917 of 2057 🔗

Couldn’t agree more TJN. You are parenting your child with your values and morals, not the governments. Having the courage of your convictions teaches your child to be resilient, confident and an independent thinker.

162821 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Girl down Under, #918 of 2057 🔗

Thanks GdU.

I hope Country Mumkin sees your post.

161953 ▶▶ Pebbles, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #919 of 2057 🔗

Challenge them. Please ask them to provide the scientific facts and research. Point out their inevitable discriminating against non-mask wearers given it is not statutory requirement.
Then challenge them on the findings of a Charity for Children in Germany (Kinder für Weltfrieden) that had a child’s mask tested after 8 hrs in school by a lab and the results were 82 bacterial colonies and 4 fungi on the mask – please ask them to provide a Risk Assessment conducted for
mandatory mask wearing that will ensure a child’s health in light of those findings.
Next up point to 35,600 teachers being tested in Hessen / Germany since start of school year and only 4!!! have tested positive so where is the hysteria in schools coming from?
I’ll send the links also to TY – people are just losing their shit atm.

162088 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Pebbles, #920 of 2057 🔗

Thanks, that’s really great to hear. I’d love to see those links. I need as much back up going forward as I can. I have sent email and I await response. Will report back.

161403 Schrodinger, replying to Schrodinger, 4, #921 of 2057 🔗

Haven’t read all the posts so may have missed it if someone has already posted. But Siman Dolan has Tweeted that he is applying for an urgent hearing and injunction. Case should be heard next week.

161475 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Schrodinger, 1, #923 of 2057 🔗

That’s great news.

161405 Liam, replying to Liam, 33, #924 of 2057 🔗

My objection to having to claim exemption from mask wearing is as strong as my objection to actually wearing them. Both are forms of compliance.

161464 ▶▶ microdave, replying to Liam, 25, #925 of 2057 🔗

My objection to having to claim exemption from mask wearing is as strong as my objection to actually wearing them

Absolutely – I’ve managed to avoid shopping at my local Sainsburys for weeks at a time, and on the last visit I went in muzzle-less. I didn’t have any problems on that occasion, although I spent the entire time avoiding eye-to-eye contact as the sight of dozens of zombies freaks me out. But having read in the comments here that JS are getting more aggressive towards “Non Compliance”, I’ve just printed out an exemption card. However, having put it on, and looked in the mirror, I’m even more depressed. Why the hell should I have to walk around wearing a badge declaring I’m “exempt” from a ludicrous regulation? I might as well go in with a flashing blue light on my head… There is still the risk of “jumpers” treating me as some sort of freak show, whether wearing a badge or not. Reluctantly, I will put on a muzzle, but it will only cover my mouth – I’m dammed if I’m going to suffer hypoxia & hypercapnia, plus the other risks of re-breathing any “ordinary” germs I might have.

Both are forms of compliance

Which, of course, is EXACTLY what Bojo & Twatcock want.

Bastards, utter F***ing Bastards…

162396 ▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to microdave, #926 of 2057 🔗

You don’t have to wear it ,just keep in pocket and only show if asked by staff .Iv’e never once been asked in a supermarket to show a card .

161491 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Liam, 10, #927 of 2057 🔗

I feel the same but I don’t want to get fined. A valid exemption is that wearing a mask would cause you distress. Well, bowing to tyranny does indeed cause me distress so I rationalize it that way.

161496 ▶▶ Stephanos, replying to Liam, 2, #928 of 2057 🔗

I agree to this. I dislike the idea of asking permission. The principle in England and throughout the British Commonwealth is, or ought to be, if it is not against the law you can do it.
This derives from the one prohibition in the garden of Eden, ‘for one restraint, lords of the world beside’ as Milton so eloquently put it.
It is also the basis of the ten commandments. I used to think that it was a bad idea that most of the commandments were negative; I do not think so now. The most effective way of controlling people is to tell them what they CAN do, the implication being that they can’t do anything that is not on the list.
The best way of controlling the EU would have been to give the EU commission a VERY short list of what they CAN do, not a very long list of what they can’t do.

161675 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Liam, 8, #929 of 2057 🔗

Ever since masks were made mandatory on public transport, we have tossed this question about between ourselves. Not wearing a mask is non-negotiable for us but should we claim our legitimate health exemptions?  This is especially because our objection to them is on the grounds that they are an obvious psy-op, a tool of control and enforced obedience, separation and demoralisation.

Early on, I sent off for some ‘Euan’ badges and printed out the Govt exemption cards and made lanyards but we didn’t use them (we hardly ever use a bus nowadays anyway.)  When shops were added in, we easily saw off two rather sad people in supermarkets who had a little go at us.

However, we were persuaded by a post from ‘Margaret’ on here that wearing them could help people who should be exempt but who either didn’t realise it or who were unsure how it worked. I have printed out quite a few cards for people. We’ve ended up in a compromise situation where we wear them to supermarkets but not anywhere else.

When I posted, above, that even slogan-bearing masks were a form of compliance, I meant no offence to the people who wear them. Everyone has to pick their battles. I do not even blame people who wear masks because they are obliged to by employers or who are scared of being fined. As for virtue-signallers, ‘for ye have the virtue-signallers always with you.’  However, it does not alter the fact that wearing a mask, for whatever reason, is compliance – that’s a fact and not a judgement.

When it comes to exemptions, I think that the waters are muddier. I am not remotely offended by people on here who say I am compliant when I wear my badge and I often feel like making my own yellow star to wear and having done with it. That is no longer a joke, by the way! However, is it compliance, exactly? There is no requirement to wear a badge or lanyard and even the bastard Govt says you need only say you are exempt without giving any more reason. No shopkeeper or store goon can ask you for a ‘medical certificate’ or other such nonsense.  So either I am wearing a badge as a kind of ‘coward’s way out’ of confrontation with goons or other members of the public (not true) or I continue to wear it to model that exemptions exist (true but wearing thin in these increasingly hysterical times.) In other words, I’m not sure of my ground any more but we may carry on for the time being, keeping open minds.

However we do it, I believe that as much non-compliance as we can manage with any of it is the only way to combat this. That and trying to talk to people, leaflets, posters, whatever we can do.  As someone else said on here, no political hero is going to gallop in on his/her charger and save us. There is no cavalry, only us, resisting as best we can.

At the same time, I have complete sympathy with those people on here who have withdrawn from society and I read their posts with a heavy heart.  I absolutely detest shopping now and being among the ‘zombies’ brings me perilously close to losing it. We used to enjoy the sociability of High Peak buses but no longer. Trains are ghastly.  Like everyone else, we are struggling to get health and dental care and we have lost our whole social and cultural life. Many of our sceptical shop-keeping friends have been forced into masks at work and even patronising local cafes is likely to be more fraught owing to the T&T requirements.

I avoid phoning or emailing life-long friends because I know our views are more-or-less shocking to many of them. I sense that even fellow-sceptics are beginning to lose heart as this situation escalates. We are losing all motivation to practise our instruments and we take refuge in walking, cycling and reading (anything and everything), trying not to drink too much:-) and following sites like this and Off-Guardian. James Corbett’s ‘Report’ is an outstanding resource and he has been predicting everything we’re going through for years. We also like UK Column but don’t agree with everything they say.

Anyway, Please excuse my usual rambling but I know you will understand. We can whinge but at least we still have a roof over our heads, heating and food (so far). We almost certainly need to get out in the hills and on our bikes and get our ‘banjos’ (actually viola, cello and piano) out. So if you don’t hear from me/us for a few days, we won’t have gone under as we’re tough old sods but we’ll be out there, trying to regain our mojo, starting with a trip to the New Mills cafe on our bikes very shortly.  I will phone some mates as well. Good luck and stay strong, fellow sceptics! MW

161845 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #930 of 2057 🔗

Wearing my sunflower lanyard on public transport has meant that people look away even those who glare at me. I think its because they’re afraid of being hit back with a possible charge against harassing a person with disability.

At work it becomes a conversation starter especially for people who aren’t aware that they can be exempt and where to get them.

162766 ▶▶▶ PhilipF, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #931 of 2057 🔗

Thanks. Very interesting and well written post.

161411 sam, 7, #932 of 2057 🔗
  • reposted:
  • “The first signs of plague in Moscow appeared in late 1770, which would turn into a major epidemic in the spring of 1771. The measures undertaken by the authorities, such as creation of forced quarantines, destruction of contaminated property without compensation or control, closing of public baths, etc., caused fear and anger among the citizens.
  • The city’s economy was mostly paralyzed because many factories, markets, stores, and administrative buildings had been closed down. All of this was followed by acute food shortages, causing deterioration of living conditions for the majority of the Muscovites. Dvoryane (Russian nobility) and well-off city dwellers left Moscow due to the plague outbreak.
  • The first outbursts of mass protest against the measures undertaken by the authorities took place on August 29 and September 1…. An attempt by the Archbishop Ambrose of Moscow to prevent the citizens from gathering at the Icon of the Virgin Mary of Bogolyubovo in Kitai-gorod (as a quarantine measure), served as an immediate cause for the Plague Riot.
  • On September 15, huge crowds of Muscovites began to flow towards Red Square at the sound of the alarm bell. Pushing aside a military unit, they burst into the Kremlin and destroyed the Chudov Monastery (Archbishop’s residence) and its wine cellars. Archbishop Ambrosius managed to escape to the Donskoy Monastery.
  • On September 16, the riot gained in strength. Angry citizens captured the Donskoy Monastery, killed Archbishop Ambrosius, and destroyed two quarantine zones (Danilov Monastery and the one beyond the Serpukhov Gates).
  • The army …… finally suppressed the Riot. Some 300 people were brought to trial.
  • A government commission headed by Grigory Orlov was sent to Moscow on September 26 to restore order. It took some measures against the plague but provided citizens with work and food, which would finally pacify the people of Moscow. The commission improved services in quarantines, put an end to the burning of property, reopened public baths, permitted trade, increased food deliveries, and organized public works. At the same time, the commission was engaged in prosecuting those who had taken part in the Plague Riot. Four of them were executed; 165 adults and twelve teenagers were subjected to punishment.”
  • https://en.wikipedia.org/wi
  • Archbishop Ambrose did not deserve to die – but mobs always go for the low-hanging fruit. He was famous for his interest in schemes for the alleviation of poverty in Moscow and was the founder of new churches and monasteries. He loved science but challenged “atheistic” and “superstitious” writings, i.e. he did not sacrifice Orthodox Christian spirituality to either atheism on the one hand, or weird uasi-religious cults on the other.
  • https://en.wikipedia.org/wi
161463 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to sam, 4, #934 of 2057 🔗

Maybe the second virus that Gates was smirking about

161482 ▶▶ Basics, replying to sam, 1, #935 of 2057 🔗


161578 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to sam, 1, #936 of 2057 🔗

What could possibly go wrong?

161445 Biggles, replying to Biggles, 32, #937 of 2057 🔗

The new measures announced today for the north-east are not going down well. The Mayor of Middlesbrough, Andy Preston, has said ‘Right now I do not accept the government’s intended restrictions because they are based on ignorance’.

161460 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Biggles, 18, #938 of 2057 🔗

That’s good news. If more local government stalwarts are turning around and saying NO! then its a good thing

161468 ▶▶▶ Biggles, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #939 of 2057 🔗

He also said ‘the government’s announcement [was] based on factual inaccuracies and a frightening lack of communication’.

Labour lost control of Middlesbrough council in 2019 and the make up of the council is now 23 Independent, 20 Labour, 3 Conservative.

161520 ▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Biggles, 1, #940 of 2057 🔗

Well I’m very surprised at this (I live just outside the Middlesbrough local government area). Not long ago he was on about handing out free face nappies to every household, and gagging for restrictions to be brought in.

161508 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Biggles, 1, #941 of 2057 🔗

Any further details on this?

161540 ▶▶▶ Biggles, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #942 of 2057 🔗

According to Ben Houchen (Tees Valley mayor) the government approved requests from local leaders for the restrictions so presumably some of the Independents joined up with Labour.

Preston reckons that talks are ongoing and as it stands, nothing changes. It seems the restrictions don’t take effect until the weekend.

161555 ▶▶▶▶ Ed Phillips, replying to Biggles, 1, #943 of 2057 🔗

If it’s anything like Durham then there will be no council oversight. We were put into lockdown due to the decision of the Council Leader and the Chief Exec wanting to join in with the other local councils. The Cabinet hadn’t known anything about it.
Don’t know how the Mayoral issue changes things in Tees Valley and Middlesbrough.

161561 ▶▶▶▶▶ Biggles, replying to Ed Phillips, #944 of 2057 🔗

Thanks for that. So at national and local level it seems that a very small number of people are running this whole thing.

161547 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Biggles, 1, #945 of 2057 🔗

Written to him with my DHSC FOI answer about how useless PCR tests are.

My friend lives there, he’s seeing his mate who is the local councillor and they will be discussing my letter (friend has sent a copy to the councillor) and to see if he needs any more info.

Will update you as I hear anything.

161552 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, #946 of 2057 🔗

I also sent it to the Mayor of Liverpool.

here it is:


161588 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Biggles, 1, #947 of 2057 🔗

Wasn’t he the one who closed the parks and has whinged about the numbers of unmuzzled in supermarkets?

161621 ▶▶▶ Biggles, replying to arfurmo, #948 of 2057 🔗

On reading Tenchy’s comment that sounds about right.

161648 ▶▶ annie, replying to Biggles, 1, #949 of 2057 🔗

If I were to adopt a son, I’d call him Andy Preston in this man’s honour.

Irrelevant thought: is the Mayor of Preston called Andy Middlesborough??

161456 Robert Seddon, replying to Robert Seddon, 3, #950 of 2057 🔗

The way to encourage people to complete long surveys is to pay them a token amount, but if badly implemented that can train people to say what they think you want to hear. My memory of Panelbase surveys is that ‘screening questions’ were often used to determine whether you got to take the full survey, and if you were screened out you didn’t get the payment, just an entry into a prize draw. You learnt pretty sharpish that if you were asked about household income, a low number or refusal to disclose it would usually get you kicked out.

162313 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Robert Seddon, #951 of 2057 🔗

Mr Bart and I used to do surveys for the likes of Ipsos Mori and Valued Opinions and what you’ve said pretty much tallied with our experiences. You also got kicked out if you refused to give your post code and in some surveys refused to reply what TV region (is that still a thing?) you lived in.

161470 FlynnQuill, replying to FlynnQuill, 38, #952 of 2057 🔗

If Boris came on the TV this evening and said to the British public “face masks are no longer required, however, there is a caveat”. “To protect the public from this terrible disease of which 99.98 people survive, you must smear a thin layer of Dog sh*t on your top lip”. “It does not matter which breed of dog the sh*t has come from, as long as it is fresh from the dogs’ arse”.

I firmly believe a great portion of the British public would do this without question.

161472 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to FlynnQuill, 13, #953 of 2057 🔗

Yes, and don’t forget that you’ve got to paint your left kneecap purple and wear a traffic cone on your head.

161479 ▶▶▶ FlynnQuill, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #954 of 2057 🔗

Forgot to mention that :).

161500 ▶▶▶▶ Jenny, replying to FlynnQuill, 5, #955 of 2057 🔗

What shade of purple? I wouldn’t want to go for pale lilac if the recommendation is for bright violet. I have my virtue signalling credentials to consider.

161650 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Jenny, #956 of 2057 🔗

Try ultraviolet.

161570 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Fingerache Philip., 7, #957 of 2057 🔗

I have been wearing a traffic cone on my head since March and have not caught Covid, could be something in it.

161478 ▶▶ calchas, replying to FlynnQuill, 8, #958 of 2057 🔗

The parameters of allowed dissent would be to do with heated arguments in the media about which breed of dog produced the most effective sh*t.

161481 ▶▶▶ FlynnQuill, replying to calchas, 2, #959 of 2057 🔗

Ha, Ha, spot on :).

161566 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to calchas, 1, #960 of 2057 🔗

The bigger the better, judging by the piles which our local dog emptiers leave for us.

But wait, what about Toxocara canis? Which would win the scare olympics?

Covid or Toxocara?

161657 ▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to calchas, 1, #961 of 2057 🔗

Bull(dog) sh*t should work.

161640 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to FlynnQuill, 1, #962 of 2057 🔗

I hope you have a butt plug to insert for when it is announced that transmission by fart is now a thing!

161647 ▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to FlynnQuill, #963 of 2057 🔗

You mean like this:

comment image ?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=Hwq_TJ6k7WwAX95Uzpu&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr8-1.xx&tp=14&oh=abe0f5e625ef45de7955a614510d9409&oe=5F9B3D59

161925 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to FlynnQuill, #964 of 2057 🔗

Wouldn’t want to put this to the test, but I think I might sooner get used to smelling dog shit than covering my nose and mouth with a horrid piece of cloth.

161498 Richard O, replying to Richard O, 28, #965 of 2057 🔗

Sadly I think masks are here to stay for a very long time, and may indeed become a permanent feature of “normal” dress code.

I will not comply under any circumstances, nor will I give such an egregious assault any credence by attempting to claim an exemption. In order to uphold this principle, and as I do not drive, I cannot do any of the following things:

Use public transport
Visit family or friends
Socialise in pubs or restaurants
Shop in stores
Work in an office
Visit any other indoor public spaces (to be expanded to everywhere outdoors I’m certain)

In other words, this is total exclusion from civil society (which no longer exists in my opinion, so is a vanishingly small price to pay).

161506 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Richard O, 4, #966 of 2057 🔗

Yep. This is clearly the trajectory.

Ever noticed anyone ask the government how they intend to unwind the legislation when such mythical time occurs?

161514 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Cicatriz, 4, #967 of 2057 🔗

No. None of those high profile journalists in the MSM ever ask that question, nor any other searching question.

161518 ▶▶ John Galt, replying to Richard O, 3, #968 of 2057 🔗

This is the future that awaits regarding the vaccine.

161532 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to John Galt, 3, #969 of 2057 🔗

My thoughts exactly. In which case this is a very useful “warm up” exercise for that ghastly eventuality. The difference will be that there will be a larger number of people on our side, albeit still a minority.

161571 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Richard O, #970 of 2057 🔗

Be careful of the term civil scoiety it has been co-opted by tptb to mean the quango strata betwixt (word of the day) public servants, charity/ngo and government. Frequently you will find Royal Societies at work as civil society effectively acting as lobbying groups for the small influencials within in positions of power.

I know you weren’t at all implying you are a common purpose graduate sitting in a cosy position ready to network with civil society when the call comes.

Just saw an opportunity to point out how broken democracy is. I hooe no offence caused – not intended!!

161591 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Basics, 1, #971 of 2057 🔗

None taken! I agree it is a rather academic phrase, perhaps “society” alone suffices. I t has been suspended indefinitely r egardless of how we describe it.

161700 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Richard O, #972 of 2057 🔗

It has. I agree. A pedantic outing by me.

161585 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Richard O, 5, #973 of 2057 🔗

Good post, although I have no compulsion about claiming exemption if I’m challenged. Was challenged in Screwfix yesterday, I said ‘exempt’, and the guy looked back at me with the expression ‘like hell you are’, to which I returned an unflinching look.

Thing is, we can all legitimately claim ‘exempt’. Government guidelines say you don’t have to wear one if it causes ‘severe distress’ (it would to me) or in order to ‘avoid … the risk of harm or injury’ (which applies to everyone – they are germ rebreathers and raise the level of CO2 above the limit of what would be considered acceptable in a normal work environment).

But you are right, we are slowly being excluded from everyday society – unless something cracks first.

161663 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to TJN, 6, #974 of 2057 🔗

I wish I had similar fortitude. Being around anyone wearing a mask, even simply passing them in the street, makes me feel physically sick. I know this is a dereliction of my duty to show resistance, but feel those who have accepted the mark are already beyond redemption.

161799 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Richard O, 2, #975 of 2057 🔗

Yep, they make me feel sick too. They absolutely disgust me.

161919 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Richard O, 4, #976 of 2057 🔗

I feel exactly as you do. I have retreated to our country home and just listed our city place and hope to sell it while the real estate market seems to be buoyant. The masks did it for me, and each trip I have to make back to the city it just gets worse. Some of my retreat from so-called civil society is no great loss, and I find workarounds where I can. Thankfully family is fine and we get together normally, as is the case with most of our friends. I’m enjoying the relative freedom of life in the country, but am sad that the city I love is going to shit. Hopefully someone more optimistic will buy our place there! Whatever our personal degrees of freedom and tolerance for civil disobedience, we must try to live as best we can and do what we can to bring an end to the insanity.

161513 zacaway, replying to zacaway, 7, #977 of 2057 🔗

Just received a reply from my MP (Vicky Foxcroft, Lab):

Thank you for contacting me about the Coronavirus Act renewal motion. I apologise for not being able to send everyone a more personal response, but I have received a lot of emails about this and wanted to reply as quickly as possible.

As you will no doubt be aware by now, the vote on the motion took place last night and it was passed. Although my Labour colleagues and I recognise the need for the act to continue in some form, we have significant concerns about the powers contained within the act as it stands. We therefore abstained when the motion was put to the Commons.

Our frontbench tabled an amendment which sought to outline our concerns with current Government strategy. It called for “a national plan in which the Coronavirus Act powers contribute in a transparent and proportionate way for all citizens towards a coherent strategy, engaging with local authorities and devolved administrations, to support children’s education, to re-start the economy and to support the NHS in facing the unprecedented challenges of covid-19.”

Our amendment went on to call on the Government to publish a monthly review of any disproportionate impact of the act on individuals or groups, including the impact of easements in the Care Act 2014, Mental Health Act 1983 and Children and Families Act 2014. Finally, if passed it would have required the Government to provide the Commons and the Lords with the time to debate and vote on regulatory changes.

In my role as Shadow Minister for Disabled People I am particularly concerned about the impact of the Care Act easements. I have raised this repeatedly, including in this piece that was published in yesterday’s Independent: https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/disability-coronavirus-government-labour-b691988.html

I know a lot of constituents were also keen to know if I would support the amendment put forward by Graham Brady MP. This would also have required the Government to consult Parliament before the regulations it makes using the powers contained in the act come in effect. We would have given serious consideration to supporting this.

We were incredibly disappointed that the Speaker did not select either amendment for debate. However, the Brady amendment (and threatened rebellion by up to 100 Tory MPs) did force the Government to make some concessions and the Commons will now be given a vote on any new UK or England-wide coronavirus restrictions. The Government has reserved the right to act faster if needed and MPs will not be able to vote on local lockdowns.

Throughout the COVID-19 crisis, Labour has sought to be a critical friend to the Government.However, over recent months it has become alarmingly apparent that Ministers are stumbling from crisis to crisis with no coherent plan. We will continue to do all we can to hold them to account.

Thank you once again for taking the time to get in touch. I apologise if I have not been able to cover every individual point, but I hope this response clarifies my views on the Coronavirus Act as a whole and yesterday’s vote.

More than I was expecting, not sure what else they can do, given the Government has effectively sidelined Parliament.

161525 ▶▶ RickH, replying to zacaway, 3, #978 of 2057 🔗

At least you got a proper reply. But, to be harsh – it’s weasel words, and ducks any confrontation with the government narrative.

Throughout the COVID-19 crisis, Labour has sought to be a critical friend to the Government.”

Now why did a certain image spring to mind? – of somebody standing at the top of an aircraft’s steps, waving a bit of paper and declaring ‘Peace in Our Time’?

161542 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to RickH, #979 of 2057 🔗

Yes, that is an odd position for the Opposition to take. They are not challenging the main narrative. Perhaps they will try to at least bring control back to Parliament, but it might be too late for that.

161530 ▶▶ Mark, replying to zacaway, 9, #980 of 2057 🔗

“Labour has sought to be a critical friend to the Government.”

LOL! When we desperately needed an opposition, they decided instead to be a “critical friend”. And the criticism was all directed to screaming at the government to panic more, be more hysterical, do more damage.

161563 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Mark, 1, #981 of 2057 🔗

Exactly this!

161539 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to zacaway, 4, #982 of 2057 🔗

Appeasers / enablers.

161572 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to zacaway, 3, #983 of 2057 🔗

We therefore abstained when the motion was put to the Commons.

pathetic, exactly the same as voting for the extension

161523 steve_w, 1, #984 of 2057 🔗

I reckon the ‘cases’ will have plateaued in a week or 2


cases by date reported

the government will say its the restrictions but its just following the same trajectory as wave 1 which wasn’t affected by the restrictions and followed the same trajectory as sweden

161537 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 20, #985 of 2057 🔗

Written to the 24 MPs who voted NO yesterday.

E-mail here including all their contact e-mails:


Some of the highlights:

“Although I am not a constituent of yours I thought I would write and say thank you for voting NO yesterday and for your efforts to return democracy, freedom and accountability to this country once again.

You have put your country above party politics and self-interest.

This is more than the craven, supine and cowardly MPs who did not vote but sat it out and those MPs who voted YES I do not know what words to describe them, treasonous possibly.”

I then put in about no response from the PM, Ministers, MPs etc on questions, items about the definition of treason in the 1351 and 1848 acts, Whitty on the 21st July, how the coronavirus legislation was introduced, how the CMO’s statement on 30th January was really prophetic, the hamster mask study, the PCR test FOI answer and the complaint to the standards commissioner and told them they could use this info all they wanted.

Then to finish:

“Hopefully these questions and the lack of responses will be helpful to you bringing this totalitarian, fascist dictatorship to heel and restore democracy once again.

I feel justified to call them this because of the similarities that those with disabilities that prevent them from wearing a face covering are having to face and deal with daily just like the Jews were subjected to in 1930s Germany. My wife and I have both experienced this first hand.

Feel free to use is e-mail and information it contains as you like and if you would like more information about these items or facts and figures that show that the Government is not “following the science”, is not “following the data” and that rips apart the fallacy that masks work and they actually do more harm both physically and psychologically then please do not hesitate to contact me.

Yours sincerely

AKA Awkward Git”

161545 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #986 of 2057 🔗

Very well put. Thanks for all your hard work Awkward Git.

161554 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to watashi, 1, #987 of 2057 🔗


161652 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to TJN, #988 of 2057 🔗


161548 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #989 of 2057 🔗

Congratulations AG.

162382 ▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Awkward Git, #990 of 2057 🔗

Well done .

161538 Xenophanes, 1, #991 of 2057 🔗

So, according to the React study 1 in 200 in the UK have C-19. That works out as a total of 335,000 people. If you assume that people will test positive for 10 days, that suggests 33,500 people are being infected per day. So unless the daily death number rises in the next couple of weeks to c. 335 per day the IFR is below 1% – if it stays at anything like 40 it suggests it’s c. 0.1%. Back-of-the-fag-packet calculations, I know, but it’ll be interesting to see if the daily death figures bear out the predictions of many sceptics that the IFR is far lower than that claimed by lockdown proponents.

161543 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 4, #992 of 2057 🔗


Another good one from Spiked.

The MSM seems to have adopted a decidedly supine policy of ‘ roll me over, lay me down and do it again’.

The Periodic Fables issued by the Gang of Three go unchallenged, leaving any dissent to the likes of Spiked and the splendid Andrew Doyle.

Finally, another friend has imposed stricter house arrest on herself, because of the Covid Rules.

161716 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to wendyk, #993 of 2057 🔗

They may not kill off democracy. But a number of people have a view on the type of democracy that we need to “upgrade” to.


161551 Basics, 5, #994 of 2057 🔗

Saturday 10th October

161553 J J, replying to J J, -4, #995 of 2057 🔗

It’s getting really stupid here on LS.

The daily denouncement of “conspiracy theorists” is sounding more and more like the MSM every day. Sorry to have to break it to this site, but the “conspiracy theories” that were so derided are now fully true. Yes, you will need a vaxx to travel, using a CovidPass. Yes, they are gong to put a small chip in your body with the shot. Yes, 5G is bad for you. Yes, the government uses false flags all the time to achieve its goals. Yes, C19 is a false flag.

Yes, the RNA vaccine will indeed change you on a genetic level, permanently. Yes, the lockdown was planned, and has been for literally decades. Documents are everywhere proving this. Forced vaccines? Last year it was Fake News, now it’s the reality we live in.

LS has GOT to STOP with this abject ignorance. If they’d just open their minds and do the research, they’d find that the conspiracy theorists have been the only people telling the truth this whole time.

The term “conspiracy theorist” was actually invented to discredit whistleblowers and leakers. Using that term means you side with the same government you’re railing against over the lockdowns. THEY started the fake pandemic. THEY planned the lockdown. THEY are the ones doing the lying and obfuscating.

And the LS desperation for the government merely to be inept and not evil, is sad. I know, you don’t want to find out like the rest of us that even at a local level the participation in the plandemic is full. This goes from the bottom to the top, the only difference is in how much those at each level are allowed to know. Your small town Mayor just knows he’ll get reelected no matter what, but isn’t privy to the whole plan. Your state Governor is most definitely in on the plan, however.

LS, please, please stop embarrassing yourselves with this endless attack on “conspiracy theorists.” This site wouldn’t even exist if there wasn’t already a culture of dissent and skepticism; we’re usually the ones who break the news sometimes years before the mainstream.

Even now I still don’t see any correct or critical coverage of vaccines here. Sad.

Get with it, LS!!!!

161695 ▶▶ Julian, replying to J J, 3, #996 of 2057 🔗

Are you referring to the stuff above the line, or the comments? The comments are many and varied and reflect various shades of opinion, but are pretty united in the core message that the measures taken are damaging and disproportionate, which in the first instance is I think the case we need to convince people of.

I don’t often read the stuff above the line. TY is on the “incompetence” side of the fence, but I don’t see why that’s such a huge problem. He’s only one man. LS is not a political partym with policies.

161702 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to J J, 14, #997 of 2057 🔗

One forum can’t be all things to all people, but there are more areas of agreement than disagreement on this site. I like to think of us all as sceptics along a continuum, with government ineptitude on one end and plandemic on the other. In the end, we are all fighting against the same tyranny no matter how you believe it came to be. We can each choose to read and/or respond to individual posts, so simply skip over those that don’t resonate rather than creating in-fighting that doesn’t serve the greater cause. By definition, a forum devoted to sceptics will attract a wide range of people with different backgrounds, education levels, political leanings, etc., but we are all critical thinkers who can rise above differences and foster an environment of mutual respect. Let’s not devolve and become what we detest — just as there is no “the science” maybe there is no one explanatory framework for what has happened and there are those who have used Covid as a means of furthering certain causes (i.e., a green recovery, vaccination agendas) aided by hapless politicians who simply want to stay in power. We can all be right, but in the end restoring our freedoms and way of life is worth fighting for and we need everyone on board.

161713 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to J J, 6, #998 of 2057 🔗

“Yes, you will need a vaxx to travel, using a CovidPass. Yes, they are gong to put a small chip in your body with the shot. Yes, 5G is bad for you. Yes, the government uses false flags all the time to achieve its goals. Yes, C19 is a false flag.
Yes, the RNA vaccine will indeed change you on a genetic level, permanently. Yes, the lockdown was planned, and has been for literally decades. Documents are everywhere proving this. Forced vaccines? ”

If you seriously believe all this, then you need to go talk to somebody very quickly because your brain is filtering things to fit a narrative.

Of course you don’t have to listen to me, but if you do you’ll end up feeling a lot better.

Things are annoying and there is a mass hysteria going on, but trying to justify another type of emotional panic over nothing doesn’t help.

Time to drink deep at the well of rationality and stop seeing demons at every corner. We’re better as a species when the rational half keeps the other half in check.

161804 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Lucan Grey, 4, #999 of 2057 🔗

It is scary how relentless the moves towards previously unimaginable measures are.
Now we are told we will not be allowed to return to normal for another year, even with a “vaccine”.

i have some experience of the Governments ruthlessness and duplicity as I have researched vaccine damage (because I used to work for a disability charity for people with CFS/ME)

It is now almost certain that a third of these patients are suffering from vaccine damage (myelitis) I have followed the research, and can see that children with autism are damaged through the same process.

This has been known to the people at the top of the DoH for at least thirty years, and nothing has been done to help these young people (British citizens all) In the mean time, to keep the pharma profits up they carried on injuring their own people

We has children paralysed and suicides. The government do not give a f…k!

When the conclusive evidence came out I wrote to all my MEPs and MPs and no one would do anything.

It is almost a relief to me to see what is happening now, because I can tell you that for the past three years this knowledge has been a huge burden to me.
I felt like someone who had come back from a concentration camp and could not persuade anyone else that they existed. No-one was able to understand the medical evidence, but mainly, no one was interested. People are so complacent and ignorant. For Ch…ts sake you only need basic biological knowledge!

People have got to wake up.
I saw what they did to the disabled. Now they will do it to you.

161560 ▶▶ Ed Phillips, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1002 of 2057 🔗

Thanks for that.

Is there any MP who has said:

“I don’t believe these measures were necessary in March and they certainly aren’t needed now.”

It all seems to be couched in language that says “we gave them the benefit of the doubt in March, and it’s important to keep trying to control the virus but this isn’t the best way of doing it.

161626 ▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to Ed Phillips, -1, #1003 of 2057 🔗

pretty much the same as everyone on this site who still keep looking at irrelevant data trying to make sense of FPR’s and percentages. Not to mention all the letter writers!!

Cannot escape their paradigm prisons!

161679 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to B Boru, -1, #1004 of 2057 🔗

I think most on this site who are looking at data are doing it with the intention of discrediting the government and their supporters, not because we think any of it matters much per se

161835 ▶▶▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to Julian, #1005 of 2057 🔗

I think they are well past the point of discredit by now don’t you.

Maybe it gives people comfort or something, like lying down under a wooden table in the event of a nuclear blast!

162165 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to B Boru, #1006 of 2057 🔗

No comfort, just exploring ways to present the sceptic case – if you can use the govts own figures to show non-sceptics that the govt is talking nonsense, you may make progress

161682 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Ed Phillips, #1007 of 2057 🔗

I doubt any MP would say that. Whether any thought it, I don’t know.

There will have be to a journey from “we need to control the virus but this isn’t the best way of doing it” to “it cannot be controlled meaningfully, and attempts to do so are futile and damaging”.

161598 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1008 of 2057 🔗

Good for her! I don’t usually agree with much of what she says, but her statement shows she has the courage of her convictions.

161606 ▶▶ Jenny, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #1009 of 2057 🔗

Never thought I would say this about Dawn Butler but good for her!

161558 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 3, #1010 of 2057 🔗

“Cross-reactive SARS-CoV-2 peptides revealed pre-existing T cell responses in 81% of unexposed individuals.”

Yet Chris Whitty still doesn’t want to accept that t-cell immunity is a thing.

161589 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1011 of 2057 🔗

Thanks for the link.Very interesting.As this is from Germany,Dr Fauci will only believe it if it is reproduced in the US before changing tack about herdimmunity levels(if that ever happens!)

161559 steve_w, replying to steve_w, #1012 of 2057 🔗

quick question

if 10% of the population have an IFR of 1% and 90% are just immune, is the population IFR ‘1% but 90% are immune’ or is it ‘0.1%’. ie an infection fatality ratio is the people that died divided by the people that are infected. what about those that don’t even bother getting infected but have been exposed?

161567 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to steve_w, 1, #1013 of 2057 🔗

If 100 get infected and one dies, it is 1% or 0.01. You can ignore immunity entirely.

161574 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Tee Ell, 1, #1014 of 2057 🔗

Of course, in calculating the IFR those fatalities actually have to have resulted from the infection in question.

Counting cancer, heart attacks or falling off trucks is cheating.

161577 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Tee Ell, #1015 of 2057 🔗

but what if 90 are exposed but don’t get infected?

I want to know if Ferguson will say ‘our 0.9% IFR was correct, its just that 90% of people don’t even get infected after exposure. but thats the correct IFR for those that do’. what is the definition of ‘infected’? is someone who is exposed and fights it off within minutes infected or not infected?

161583 ▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to steve_w, #1016 of 2057 🔗

Then you’re referring to a susceptibility rate / immunity ratio or whatever.

161629 ▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to steve_w, #1017 of 2057 🔗

is someone who is exposed and fights it off within minutes infected or not infected?

My view: They were infected but will most likely be asymptomatic… so they’d be part of the IFR statistic but not the CFR statistic.

161582 ▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Tee Ell, #1018 of 2057 🔗

Or to put it another way “population IFR” isn’t a thing. Maybe you could define a “population fatality rate” which might be derived from a composite of what you know about the “population susceptibility level” and “infection fatality rate”. Just my understanding by the way, I’m no epidemiologist so take with a pinch of salt.

161597 ▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Tee Ell, #1019 of 2057 🔗

I’m not an epidemiologist , I just think its a definition thing and I cant find the definition. I think (rightly or not) of CFR, IFR and EFR where EFR is ‘exposure fatality ratio’ – we are all going to be exposed and some will die but some are not susceptible. I just don’t know whether IFR pertains to the susceptible population or the whole population.

161614 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to steve_w, #1020 of 2057 🔗

It doesn’t pertain to either is my understanding. It says “if you are infected, this is the chance of dying” so of course it presupposes that you must have been susceptible.

I think that’s the distinction between this and the EFR as you say i.e. the EFR would relate to the general population, made up of some people who are susceptible and some who exhibit some level of immunity. Of course the tricky thing is that susceptibility is not an immutable quality, it could change at an individual or population level and is not binary. This is part of the reason I really like the modelling approach taken by e.g. Gabriela Gomes, since it attempts to factor this in.

161634 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Tee Ell, 1, #1021 of 2057 🔗

so ferguson might have his 0.9% correct, but he had susceptible at 80% rather than 10%?

161660 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to steve_w, #1022 of 2057 🔗

I agree with the 80% / 10% point (I’d argue it should be more like 15 – 30%), but I don’t think he had the 0.9% correct – I think he used 0.9% as the IFR and he should have been using 0.9% or less as the CFR, which would make IFR lower. This probably explains it better than I can https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/09/04/covid-why-terminology-really-matters/

161714 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Tee Ell, #1023 of 2057 🔗

I think the IFR is far lower than the 0.9% Ferguson used and I think he just used early poor data that fitted with his well known prejudices. I don’t think he muddled up CFR and IFR though – Imperial College is bad but not that bad 🙂

161723 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to steve_w, #1024 of 2057 🔗

I fully agree actually, good clarification.

161950 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to steve_w, #1025 of 2057 🔗

Most of this type of discussion completely ignores the fact that both IFR and CFR percentages are not static.
Both have inexorably declined over the lifetime of this virus outbreak, and are continuing to do so.
PCR tests outcomes should be completely ignored for any calculation of fatality rate.

At a very simple level, if a national survey was undertaken tomorrow, it would probably reveal that 25-35% are seropositive for SARS-CoV-2, And another 40% would have SARS-CoV-2 specific memory T-cells, without being seropositive.
And personally I think those percentages are conservatively low.
That would mean that 70% (about 45m) of the population have at some time been exposed to / or infected by (whichever you prefer) the virus.
(And those 70% will now have achieved acquired immunity .)

There will also be a further percentage that have already have a degree of cross-reactive T-cell immunity from past exposure to coronaviruses, but have not yet been exposed to SARS-CoV-2, and so are excluded from the calculation.

And we have a total mortality figure of 42k.

That comes out at an IFR of 0.09%
If one takes the view that half of the deaths were completely or primarily due to something else, then you would halve that and have 0.045%
(IFR includes all undiagnosed and asymptomatic exposures)

CFR would be considerably higher, because it is generally defined as cases confirmed by presentation of symptoms and / or by a proper diagnostic test. Not PCR!

161568 swedenborg, 2, #1026 of 2057 🔗

Tim Bidie just highlighted this article from 29 th Sept about the severe problems in current testing in the UK
Now 30 th Sept it was published on the other side of the pond this
Rethinking Covid-19 Test Sensitivity — A Strategy for Containment
Can’t be a coincidence that in two of the most prestigious journals serious article about the current testing regimes both in UK and US both discussing asymptomatic uninteresting cases. Must have some consequences in both countries. The US article is however authored by a test and mask fanatic, Mina, but at least he is absolutely opposed to the current testing arrangements. But he wants more efficient immediate test doing repeatedly so still in Project fear.

161573 Ricky R, replying to Ricky R, 27, #1027 of 2057 🔗

Just had a “Welcome to 3rd Year Law” online lecture and feeling very glum.

First eye roll when the head lecturer said “you’re actually all very lucky to be studying law in a time like this.” I’d say spending 9k to sit in my room and have a substandard, gutted university experience doesn’t class me as lucky. It isn’t even an interesting time for law as the concept of rule of law is practically nonexistent in Covid Britain.

Then the news that even if there is any improvement in the covid situation, exams and teaching is to remain mostly online through the whole academic year. I have 1 hour of in person teaching a week which is a joke. But “hopefully” we might get a graduation but that “is not a guarantee and is subject to public health advice” so it can be assumed graduation is a write off as well.

Face masks mandatory in tutorials as the rooms aren’t large enough to maintain distance. The Uni is operating a tier of what subjects can be done in person. Medical studies at the top to remain open even if a spike in cases occur but humanities and law solidly at the bottom. This means if there is even a slight spike in cases at the university, law will go all online for the rest of the semester. If the halls situation in other universities is anything to go by then I doubt in person teaching will last long at all for my course.

Told not to worry about our employability after we graduate though because law firms hire for positions years in advance and hopefully by 2022 we’ll be back to normal. Doubtful that this will be the case if the economy is given no chance to recover.

Overall, a very depressing experience. Worst part is that most of the law students support this. Disheartening to see that the future of the legal profession lacks any critical thinking or perspective but here we are.

161593 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Ricky R, 8, #1028 of 2057 🔗

Oh but you are! Oh so lucky so very lucky indeed. The man said so. It be so. I say the man is having a little bit of a round robin gaslight of you all. You lucky things, see how even the greatest professor brain cells are asleep at the controls. Try him out over the risk assesment he’s complicit with by excluding your in-person learning experience.

161849 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Basics, #1029 of 2057 🔗

Universities must be one of the worst villains of all this.

162140 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to DRW, #1030 of 2057 🔗

They aren’t going to come out of this unscathed. Sadly, the ones that have been the biggest villains (hello Imperial) are the least likely to face an existential crisis.

161603 ▶▶ Jenny, replying to Ricky R, 1, #1031 of 2057 🔗

If it’s any consolation most major firms are still hiring as normal. If that is where you are heading and if things are back to the office by the time you join, you will be better off than the poor sods I am trying to develop and supervise via zoom. Appreciate it totally sucks now though.

161608 ▶▶▶ Ricky R, replying to Jenny, 1, #1032 of 2057 🔗

Thanks for letting me know. I have a friend who is a trainee right now who painted a bleak picture of what it’s like currently so hearing a second opinion does help

161643 ▶▶▶▶ Jenny, replying to Ricky R, 1, #1033 of 2057 🔗

It’s pretty grim for trainees/NQs in terms of total lack of the training you get just from working physically alongside someone. But we are massively busy in terms of workload and made offers as normal after the summer programme. Can vary from firm to firm so can only speak for mine.

161649 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Ricky R, 1, #1034 of 2057 🔗

Come on, you’re studying law. Claim all the exemption you can. Challenge it.

161694 ▶▶▶ Ricky R, replying to Thinkaboutit, 4, #1035 of 2057 🔗

Believe me, I’ve been trying to argue sceptical ideas to other students with varying success. The majority I’ve spoke to agree with me and dont comply but arent ready to be vocal about their opposition. Hopefully as time goes on and catastrophic second wave doesnt appear yet students are still being treated poorly attitudes might change.

As for the university, they havent started teaching but I expect much of what they’ve put in place is theatre and will gradually wear away as time goes on.

I lie awake in bed thinking of different ways I can effectively challenge this in my position because it goes against a lot of what I believe in. Right now I think encouraging mass non compliance and working bit by bit to reduce hysteria is the way forward.

161770 ▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Ricky R, #1036 of 2057 🔗

Thinkaboutit is spot on. Claim exemption! I checked when the rule of 6 came in and the existing exemptions still apply (unless that’s been changed since then but to the best of my knowledge it hasn’t).


162138 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Ricky R, #1037 of 2057 🔗

I don’t know how LLBs work in terms of final exams and dissertations, but a thesis on the illegality of lockdown and the Coronavirus Act and the universities tearing up of all your rights must be on the shortlist?

161607 James Bertram, replying to James Bertram, 16, #1038 of 2057 🔗

Apologies if this has already been posted:

Simon Dolan on twitter:
S imon Dolan #KBF


We are today applying to Court for an urgent hearing and injunction to overturn the new lockdown laws. If the injunction is granted any official who tries to impose the lockdown laws will be in contempt of Court

Case should be heard next week

161613 ▶▶ James Bertram, replying to James Bertram, 4, #1039 of 2057 🔗

Simon Dolan #KBF

Full statement will follow later today on the CrowdJustice site.

This new action will run in parallel with the existing Judicial Review

161644 ▶▶ jb12, replying to James Bertram, 2, #1040 of 2057 🔗

I doubt the system will rein in the system.

162133 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to jb12, 1, #1041 of 2057 🔗

Totally agree, but it’s fun to throw gravel into its workings.

161655 ▶▶ annie, replying to James Bertram, 4, #1042 of 2057 🔗

Who’ll be going on holiday this time, I wonder?

161736 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to annie, 1, #1043 of 2057 🔗

Good point, it was savvy of Mr Dolan to get the case in before the ski season.

161610 Janice21, replying to Janice21, 1, #1044 of 2057 🔗

Anyone here from N Ireland waiting to hear what bullsh*t they are going to announce later on latest restrictions?

161622 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Janice21, 6, #1045 of 2057 🔗

No but heard Liverpool is next too. Do you get the feeling that we’re being ‘poked with a stick’ to push us towards civil unrest then martial law?

161666 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to T. Prince, 1, #1046 of 2057 🔗


161625 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Janice21, 1, #1047 of 2057 🔗

Me. NW. Worst in the UK for rates.

I made this post earlier and shared with anyone who is intent on selling me their fear today.


161670 ▶▶▶ Janice21, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #1048 of 2057 🔗

Unfortunately my mother in law is glued to the BBC news at every opportunity and very fearful of the virus…..now scared again to have us and our two young kids into their house. Thankfully most other family members couldnt give a hoot.

161761 ▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Janice21, 1, #1049 of 2057 🔗

I’m saying nothing original but the best thing she could do is switch the news OFF. The BBC’s panic mongering has been disgraceful.


161638 ▶▶ Bailie, replying to Janice21, #1050 of 2057 🔗

Yep. Don’t know if I want to know.

161616 Sceptic down South, replying to Sceptic down South, 4, #1051 of 2057 🔗

Re the writing on masks, I can’t post on this link below, as it needs some google account or something to hit post?


But further to JohnB and others’ comments above, some suggestions for face nappies:

“Boris is crap” or whatever variations feel best…
“Poo! Your face nappy stinks”
“Why can’t you smile?”
“Keep taking the blue pill, muggles”

Most of you could come up with far more amusing/pithy quips.

I know the best route is to be exempt, but I don’t know why this or similar doesn’t get a whole lot more traction, for those that don’t feel able to pursue the exempt issue. And for those that say this is compliance, perhaps don’t let perfect be the enemy of good? There is a war to be won, and fighting it on different fronts doesn’t hurt if it involves a whole lot more of us fighting it.

We know that Boris needs to be liked.  Perhaps his legacy can be Boris burkas/nappies, whatever, with a variety of (perfectly legal) insults aimed quite specifically in his direction?  If it took off, it might yet be another straw?

What it probably needs is someone doing a few of these, say showing them in a supermarket setting, and then uploading them to facepoo or whatever to set the example? Someone who gets followed lots…

161703 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Sceptic down South, 1, #1052 of 2057 🔗

Does anyone know of a good custom-mask printing outfit?

I created an “ I DO NOT CONSENT ” mask on Redbubble, but they charge a mint for postage. I reduced the price to the bare minimum, but they’re still taking the piss.

I’d be interested in any site where I can upload designs and publicly link to them.

161753 ▶▶ Sceptic down South, replying to Sceptic down South, 3, #1053 of 2057 🔗

And I forgot to add on this.

At the moment, there are lots of us “exempt” non wearers who can be quite isolated at times amongst all the nappy wearers. If there were a whole lot more nappies with comments that made it clear that they disagreed, that visibly adds to the sceptic numbers.

Those of us not wearing them can see the visible support from others. And others will see both non wearers and those with comments and realise that the opposition is stronger than they are being led to believe?

162623 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sceptic down South, #1054 of 2057 🔗

I quite like “Boris’s burkas”.

161635 kf99, replying to kf99, 13, #1055 of 2057 🔗

Jeremy Vine going full-on sceptic
Can anyone explain why 7,000 cases a day nationally is triggering talk of a second lockdown?”

161651 ▶▶ John Galt, replying to kf99, 3, #1056 of 2057 🔗

I implore everyone to not read the comments below his post. Twitter really is a plague on society.

161656 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to John Galt, 4, #1057 of 2057 🔗

Don’t need to but thanks for the warning. What this thing has brought home to me is how many intelligent imbeciles there are in this world.

161681 ▶▶▶▶ John Galt, replying to Achilles, 1, #1058 of 2057 🔗

Intelligent imbeciles is a great term. Similar to this:

Dependent Intelligence : this manifests as a fact-based erudition, knowing lots of stuff about many things. This intelligence doesn’t depend upon one’s own mind or one’s own senses; these can be delegated to the collective, the identity group. Its level is measured at the linguistic proficiency at repeating and summarizing, in a more or less elaborate or subtle way, what everyone agrees other intelligent people think. People educated beyond their intelligence usually fall into this category.

Independent Intelligence : all those who rely on their own eyes and mind to interpret the world. No need to spell it out, as if you’ve made it this far on this website, you’re probably part of that group.

161743 ▶▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to John Galt, 1, #1059 of 2057 🔗

Similar to the Dunning Kruger effect.


161722 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to John Galt, 2, #1060 of 2057 🔗

oh I don’t know-there’s a few folk fighting fire with fire. The zealots look stupid as they can’t back up their assertions

161867 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to John Galt, #1061 of 2057 🔗

Comments aren’t too bad, pretty mixed I’d say.

And it’s always good to see a Snake Plissken posting … 🙂

162124 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to John Galt, #1062 of 2057 🔗

That it is… if you ever mistakenly develop any faith in humanity, Twitter is an excellent corrective.

161669 ▶▶ Kate, replying to kf99, 2, #1063 of 2057 🔗

Tweet has vanished

161678 ▶▶▶ John Galt, replying to Kate, 1, #1064 of 2057 🔗

Uh oh, the BBC has obviously had a word with him.

161858 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to John Galt, #1065 of 2057 🔗

I can still see it, @ 16:15.

161677 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to kf99, 2, #1066 of 2057 🔗

I dont have twitter but Im hoping that Jeremy is starting to wake.

161637 cloud6, replying to cloud6, 38, #1067 of 2057 🔗

A breath of fresh air from deepest (urban) Devon. Our local rag published this about a cafe owner yesterday :

A Plympton cafe owner has spoken out about why she chooses not to wear a face mask.
Deanna Yates, owner of Finla Coffee on the Ridgeway in Plympton , says she doesn’t wear a mask or face covering and gives her staff the option to do the same.

Some locals are concerned with a handful telling the business owner her cafe isn’t acting ‘COVID secure’.
Yet Deanna says only a small number of people have said this – and the majority of her customers feel ‘safe’.

She said: “I’ve got masks and I’ve got visors for staff. I’ve said to them this is what the government has said. “They can take it upon themselves whether they want to wear a mask or they want to wear a visor or if they want to exempt themselves. I personally, have not worn a mask, and I refuse to wear a mask.

“It’s always going to divide people, it’s down to personal opinion. In my opinion it’s absolutely up to the person. I won’t wear a mask and I will hold my hands up to that.
“And if anyone asks, I’m exempt. No-one can question as to why I am exempt. Anyone can exempt themselves for any reason whatsoever, it could be the cause of anxiety or they could have breathing problems or hundreds of reasons why they can exempt themselves.”

Ah, a bit of sense I said to my self, so visited the establishment (Still open, the local stasi nowhere to be seen) and what a delight, the place was heaving, some had masks, some did not (their choice). The cafe employs 10 people. The staff on duty were lovely and the food and drink very good, the atmosphere was pleasant.

Outside was i sign which you would like :

161654 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to cloud6, 3, #1068 of 2057 🔗

Ahahaaaa that sign gave me a proper belly laugh. Good work.

161664 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to cloud6, 4, #1069 of 2057 🔗

Excellent! Normal behaviour! good for her!

161711 ▶▶ Basics, replying to cloud6, 6, #1070 of 2057 🔗

That graph is more understandable to more of tge public than anything bill and ben have yet presented. It is more accurate too.

161718 ▶▶ TJN, replying to cloud6, 4, #1071 of 2057 🔗

Good to know there re other sceptics down here in Devon. When I’m out and about it always seems as if I’m the only one.

KH1485 would probably be interested in this post, but I don’t know if she’s on here this time of day.

161762 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to TJN, 6, #1072 of 2057 🔗

Thanks TJN. Yes, this is brilliant and am so glad there are others taking the same stance. I hope those who are accusing her of not being COVID-safe aren’t as malicious as the ones accusing me are.

Had a particularly unpleasant and disturbing encounter on Monday in my shop. Am being a bit careful with what I post right now but the incident shook me to the core. Hugely indebted to the kind ladies who came to my defence though. But these are truly dark, dark days when behaving like a human being gets you threatened to such a degree.

161790 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to kh1485, 3, #1073 of 2057 🔗

Hi KH,

I’m guessing you’re alluding to what you posted his morning – I replied but don’t know if you’ve seen it. In essence, keep going. You’re a hero!

161807 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to TJN, 7, #1074 of 2057 🔗

Thanks again TJN. Sorry, didn’t see it but just been back to read it. Yes, that’s what I’m referring to.

Not sure about your last point, just trying to do the right thing but, boy, with the amount of aggression out there, it’s bloody difficult. One thing they can’t do is silence me at work. I will tell anyone who is willing to listen, that this is all a nonsense.

161855 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to kh1485, 1, #1075 of 2057 🔗

On the last point, I meant that one day you’ll be proudly tell people how you stood out against this, and that people like those two women will stay very quiet.

161939 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 1, #1076 of 2057 🔗

I’ve just caught up with your post on yesterdays page Kh,my blood boils for you !.What the hell is missing in some peoples lives that they have to treat you like that ?,these types of arseholes have been waiting all their lives for a situation to allow them to feel emboldened to treat others in this appalling way.I see it was women,they seem to be the acting like the biggest twats at the moment,especially towards other women.
The Environmental Health visit was no coincidence.Many years ago we had an accidental fire at our business and the EH inspector got there before the fire brigade,he said they had a report we were illegally burning waste that was phoned in by a ‘neighbouring property’,a sad twat,who moved next door to us,not the other way round,was always phoning in false complaints about us and I bet he thought all his dreams had come true that day.The inspector was sent away with his tail between his legs with the suggestion he told the ‘neighbouring property’ to fuck off !.He had to run back to his stupid little van because he was blocking the fire engine from getting in !.

162178 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 1, #1077 of 2057 🔗

Thanks Paul, my sympathies for what you went through. I know, these people just have nothing else in their lives. I have always found the Environmental Health excessively overbearing.

Yes, bit of a coincidence. Though I, and the regulars, suspected that her ire was provoked, not by my masklessness, but that I served them first! Good thing is I remember her and she will not set foot in my shop again. Time to consider a sign saying that we will not tolerate any form of aggression.

162272 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to kh1485, 2, #1078 of 2057 🔗

Poor you. I’ve been on the receiving end of malice and hectoring just once – in church – and that was horrid enough,You are a tower of strength.

162315 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to annie, #1079 of 2057 🔗

You still abbreviated Annie?

Your church experience is far worse – after all, nominally, your fellow church-goers are meant to be Christians.

161756 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to cloud6, 1, #1080 of 2057 🔗

I’ve emailed the photo to some friends of mine. I love it!


162119 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to cloud6, #1081 of 2057 🔗

Genius 😀

162517 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to cloud6, #1082 of 2057 🔗

“Those who have a special feeling for the small, ancient, and decayed boroughs of England will be delighted with Plympton. It has been left on one side in the past two hundred years or so, and one smells cow-dung in the streets instead of petrol fumes: the immemorial life giving smell of the land from which the little town took its birth in the 12th century.”

from “Devon” by W.G.Hoskins (1954)

161653 Mabel Cow, replying to Mabel Cow, 11, #1083 of 2057 🔗

I know this is old, but during an interview with Sky News on 6 September, Dominic Raab said:

“The reason that we can’t introduce testing reliably at airports is because the success rate is lower than one in ten. So, as your earlier guest mentioned, actually it’s not a silver bullet. You would have to have further tests.”

So the First Secretary of State clearly tells us that the test produces 90% false positives and the country does what?

Absolutely nothing.

161661 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Mabel Cow, #1084 of 2057 🔗

I think rather than 90% false positives it means 90% false negatives. Either way the question is how does he know that and if it’s true how can such an inaccurate test be used to inform you of anything? Having said that I’m just assuming that he didn’t have the faintest clue what he was blithering on about.

161674 ▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Achilles, #1085 of 2057 🔗

It does mean false positives.

You can infer whether that’s true based on an understanding of actual prevalence (via a combination of things like antibody tests and GP diagnosis), then combine that with an understanding of the likely sensitivity and specificity of the tests. I made a calculator here if you fancy giving it a go, the interface is a little buggy but the maths should be right https://coronacalculator.azurewebsites.net/

161767 ▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Tee Ell, #1086 of 2057 🔗

I just read him saying the success rate is 1 in ten as meaning that if you test 10 positive people only 1 test will actually come back as positive. Happy to be corrected though.

161825 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Achilles, #1087 of 2057 🔗

The false positive rate is a proportion of people who don’t actually have it that test positive. So I’m not sure what he meant exactly, but I would argue the “success rate” is true positives + true negatives as a proportion of total tests.

161685 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Achilles, 1, #1088 of 2057 🔗

I also saw Raab say “only seven percent of tests will be successful in identifying those that actually have the the virus” on a Sky News studio interview that was posted on Twitter.

The original Twitter posting has been removed, but there are some traces of it here: https://www.collective-evolution.com/2020/09/25/british-foreign-secretary-says-false-positive-rate-for-covid-19-is-very-high/

161924 ▶▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Mabel Cow, #1089 of 2057 🔗

It was in line with Dr Yeadon’s analysis, he’s posted a few things online, I think at least one of them is linked here somewhere…est false positive rate of approx. 90-94%

161658 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 8, #1090 of 2057 🔗

Meanwhile in la la land> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8793235/Matt-Hancock-wrongly-claims-vitamin-D-doesnt-work-Covid-19.html

Matt Hancock told the House of Commons last week he had green-lit a UK Government-funded ‘trial’ investigating vitamin D and that it did not ‘appear to have any impact’. But this turned out to be untrue
comment image

161673 ▶▶ John Galt, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1091 of 2057 🔗

They actually realised that they’d made a statistical error when they calculated the daily recommended Vitamin D allowance, so people who are insufficient or deficient in Vitamin D are actually dangerously deficient (if they’re using the same RDA).

Unbelievably, though they realised this, they’ve never rectified it.

(To sum it up, when fixing the statistical error, they actually worked out that people need around 8895 IU of vitamin D per day, as opposed to 600 IU, though they then say “caution is needed”.)

161684 ▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to John Galt, 1, #1092 of 2057 🔗

Yep, when I was found to be deficient my doctor prescribed daily tablets that are 10 x the RDA.

161686 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to John Galt, 3, #1093 of 2057 🔗

Sounds rather similar to the HCQ trial. “Oops, wrong dosage, misread the label, nothing to see here.”

161801 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #1094 of 2057 🔗

The HCQ trail – they used a much too high dose and excluded the required zinc (most people are zinc deficient) and then said that it was toxic/not working.

Covid vaccine trail – they used another vaccine as a placebo (with lots of side effects) and then stated that the Coli vaccine side effects were not that much.

Follow the money

161874 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Victoria, #1095 of 2057 🔗

Yes, and don’t go outside and get a dose of sunlight, fresh air and exercise. No dietary advice for boosting your immune system.

161918 ▶▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Victoria, #1096 of 2057 🔗

They also used it on late stage Covid patients, not early or precursor patients. No random control test either. Very flawed ‘research’.


161795 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to John Galt, 2, #1097 of 2057 🔗

The RDA is just about enough to prevent rickets. Adults should take 10,000IU vitamin D3 per day, best to take with vitamin K2 and Magnesium as it helps the absorption of calcium into the bones and teeth – also for osteoporosis.

Foods contain very little Vitamin D3 and unless you can get sufficient sun exposure (exposed skin) from April to September only (sun too low in the sky during the other months to make vitamin D) then you need to supplement. Stay away from prescribed vitamin D2 (synthetic and body needs to take it through an additional process) an d megadoses once a month – its better to take it everyday. It is advisable two get a vitamin D3 test (ask your GP) to get a baseline and see how high the dose should be to increase your levels sufficiently. However if you cant get a test, take the 10,000IU.

161847 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Victoria, #1098 of 2057 🔗

Steady, Victoria – don’t oily fish, eggs, and mushrooms contain vit D ?

162194 ▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to JohnB, #1099 of 2057 🔗

Not enough. I had half a tin of mackerel as part of my lunch today – 128 IUs. One egg has 38 IUs. (Source: Cronometer ). I supplement with D3 (best form) from late September through late March with 4000 IU. Haven’t been sick in years, of course, your mileage may vary. My GP is still closed, except for telemedicine, so I don’t know how I’d get tested.

162250 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to ConstantBees, #1100 of 2057 🔗

Fair enough. (Not the use of supplement as a verb, that is just inexcusable. 🙂 ). I am not an expert – checking the bottle, my winter vit D is also 4000 IU.

(half a tin of mackerel is one bite for some of us. 🙂 ).

162103 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to John Galt, #1101 of 2057 🔗

Of course, we all know they cannot do simple maths!

161707 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Sarigan, 7, #1102 of 2057 🔗

Handy cock talks bollocks? Who knew?

161715 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1103 of 2057 🔗

It was one of his typically condescending responses – to a very good question from Rupa Huq. She will be back to challenge him on this. I also think after this morning’s performance in the HoC to the urgent question brought by the Lib Dems on the 10pm curfew, he is likely to be ordered to address the Science & Technology Committee too.

161731 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Sarigan, 5, #1104 of 2057 🔗

Anybody wondered why they rushed out masks on flimsy justification yet they won’t recommend mass Vitamin D supplements due to “lack of evidence”.

The worst that will happen is most people will have stronger bones.

161748 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Lucan Grey, 1, #1105 of 2057 🔗

Like most things – there’s no such thing as a free lunch. I don’t want to put a damper on a possible treatment – far from it – but Vitamin D can relate to the development of kidney stones if there is an underlying propensity.

162091 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to RickH, #1106 of 2057 🔗

That is the unfortunate side effect.

162203 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to RickH, #1107 of 2057 🔗

A quick search makes it look like taking 10,000 IU can cause issues. I’ve never taken over 4000 IU and only over the winter. There’s no reason to take it the rest of the year unless you’re confined to home (oh, oops).

161794 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Lucan Grey, 1, #1108 of 2057 🔗

I wonder how they got away with not recommending it.
Standard recommendation snould be a daily supplement of Vit C, Vit D, and Zinc, and / or a diet that will provide these.
All of these are known to support immune system function.
And a single Brazil nut will give you all the Selenium you need!

“Why Did Fauci Say Vitamins C and D Work to Help Your Immune System 4 Years Ago and Denies It Now?”

He takes them both himself.

161808 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Kevin 2, 2, #1109 of 2057 🔗

If you recommend Vitamin D and other nutrients, people will be too healthy and not get sick and therefore no requirement for the vaccine or other costly drugs such as Remdesivir

161962 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Victoria, #1110 of 2057 🔗


And the same applies to HCQ.
And Ivermectin.
And that cough syrup that also works!

162095 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Kevin 2, #1111 of 2057 🔗

P.S.: selenium (walnuts), and VitD help stop your hair falling out due to deficiencies of both.

161836 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Lucan Grey, #1112 of 2057 🔗

The masks are symbols of conformity. Vit D doesn’t make big pharma richer.

(I realise most here know these things – but just in case. 🙂 ).

162089 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Lucan Grey, #1113 of 2057 🔗

Or why they won’t put the vulnerable elderly on a maintenance dose of HcQ…

162262 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Lucan Grey, #1114 of 2057 🔗

Wearing a face nappy marks you as a slave.
Taking vitamins is not a visible token of enslavement.

161741 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1115 of 2057 🔗

The bottom line is that there is no downside to increasing our intake of vitamin D to maintain serum 25(OH)D at at least 30 ng/mL (75 nmol/L), and preferably at 40–60 ng/mL (100–150 nmol/L) to achieve optimal overall health benefits of vitamin D.


161668 annie, replying to annie, 28, #1116 of 2057 🔗

O woe is me, I do not see
How I can live.
My ex-wife’s second cousin’s
Husband’s ungendered
Former partner’s seventh daughter’s
Boyfriend’s stepdad’s great-granduncle’s
Gardener’s prize tomato plant

161690 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to annie, 5, #1117 of 2057 🔗

Isolate,isolate! Quarantine the plant and the greenhouse,spray with something or other and mask all plants immediately!

And round up the extended family.

Do you remember the Daleks? Exterminate! Exterminate!

161728 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to wendyk, 5, #1118 of 2057 🔗

Nuke the entire site from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure.

161739 ▶▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Mark, 1, #1119 of 2057 🔗

Game over, game over man!

161746 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Mark, 1, #1120 of 2057 🔗

Mutually assured destruction: MAD;very apt.

161839 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Mark, 1, #1121 of 2057 🔗

If it saves a single life it’s worth it!

161729 ▶▶ Liam, replying to annie, 6, #1122 of 2057 🔗

I’m going to boil my lungs and burn my house down immediately. It’s the only way to be safe. I might catch it from reading your comment otherwise.

161866 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Liam, 2, #1123 of 2057 🔗

You shouldn’t make direct eye-contact with this web page.

162019 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sam Vimes, #1124 of 2057 🔗

It will give you brain cancer.

161683 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1125 of 2057 🔗

A depressing report here:


Restrictions probably lasting at least all next year – even if there’s a vaccine. At least that’s what a ‘group of scientists’ has to say about it.

161688 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1126 of 2057 🔗

Oh please no!

161696 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1127 of 2057 🔗

I’m really not sure what they think the vaccine is going to do.

161726 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1128 of 2057 🔗

No indication in the report referred to by the BBC as to who the researchers actually are, other than it’s from the DELVE intiative. As with a lot of these, it’s working on the premise that the vaccine is ‘the only way out’, without questioning the danger or not of the disease or whether we’ve reached herd immunity or whether the ‘cases’ being reported really are ‘cases’, etc etc!


161740 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1129 of 2057 🔗

Very depressing confirmation of what we already new. The BBC is a good litmus test of where the narrative is going. The authorities are steadily rolling back their empty promise that everything will return to normal at some hypothetical future date because they know full well that a) A vaccine may never be developed and b) If a vaccine is developed it may not be successful.

We are in for the long haul folks.

161752 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Richard O, 4, #1130 of 2057 🔗

The plan is to enforce a police state, but rather than visible machine gun posts, which would alert the population as to their likely fate, and create resistance, it will be done in a “caring ” guise, using a medical pretext so that we will be lulled into submission.

161768 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Kate, 5, #1131 of 2057 🔗

I would prefer hard totalitarianism to this dreadful no man’s land we’re in currently. Dispense altogether with the illusion that we are free. More honest, no bullshit.

161797 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Kate, #1132 of 2057 🔗

Yep, with more and more QR codes controlling our movements

161769 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Richard O, #1133 of 2057 🔗

*knew, not new

161771 ▶▶ Nic, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1134 of 2057 🔗

They only look at the science ,in 6 months time people will.be worn out by this the economy will have totally crashed unempoyment will devistate many , the people will eventually lead us out of lockdown to proper normal.

161774 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tenchy, #1135 of 2057 🔗

The ‘scientists’ are the usual shills clearly lacking real insight and ability, having no apparent skill in assessing relatively simple benefit/harm equations.

Proof of this? Total lack of any competence in assessing the actual small harm of this virus against the total devastation of normal life.

I sometimes wonder if these types were damaged nerds bullied at school seeking their moment of significance.

161783 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Tenchy, 5, #1136 of 2057 🔗

I read articles like that and I despair. Has some substance been secretly added to the water supply that turns most of the populace into subservient imbeciles? How can anyone think that living with these sort of restrictions for a year or more is a rational response to a disease that is only slightly more deadly than seasonal flu? This is utterly insane.

161823 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1137 of 2057 🔗

Why are you reporting this shite on here. STOP giving them oxygen!

162079 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to B Boru, #1138 of 2057 🔗

Know your enemy. Ignoring them right now won’t stop them.

162042 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tenchy, #1139 of 2057 🔗

Well now, that’s interesting, because according to what was said by the government only recently, it’s only going to be for 6 more months..

162073 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1140 of 2057 🔗

They’re never going to let us out of all this. It’ll only go away when a majority have had enough, it I fear that the government are going to continue impose restrictions using the police and military, even when it’s patently clear its no longer about the virus to even the bedwetters.

162114 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Lms23, 1, #1141 of 2057 🔗

That majority will take an enormous length of time to emerge. There are all sorts of cognitive mechanisms at play. Certainly, people who have been vocally pro-mask have now invested their identity in this stance, and an about-face would amount to a personal climbdown and a huge blow to the ego. Most don’t have the stones for that.

161712 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 29, #1142 of 2057 🔗

I went to post a letter this morning and bumped into someone I know slightly but have never had a conversation with. We both posted our letters and stood outside the corner shop owned by a sceptic Seikh who is very pleasant and who doesn’t give a fig whether you wear a mask in his shop or not.

We found we had a lot in common, particularly scepticism about the ‘virus’. I mentioned masks and asked him his opinions on them. He said he realised that they were worse than useless but always wore one when ‘appropriate’. As we stood talking a young man came out of the shop and immediately whipped off his mask and shoved it in his back pocket. I said to my new found friend ‘there’s a typical example of just how unhealthy masks are. Not only do they not work but they are positive traps for all kinds of pathogens and crud which are liberally pasted back over the face.’ ‘Yes’ he agreed ‘but I wear one because it may just give confidence to people who are scared stiff of catching something from me so I like to be considerate of others’

On the face of it that may sound a plausible and selfless attitude to take but I hastily pointed out the converse argument. If we are ever to get out of this unholy mess and convince people that the chances of catching this so called deadly virus are extremely low, the job of any responsible and indeed ‘selfless’ person is not to cow tow to the fears of others and compound them by pretending that we too are scared stiff but quite the opposite: to not wear one at all! By not wearing a mask surely it signals that we feel no danger from them or any other person for that matter. And if they see this, and the more they see it, then surely their fears will ebb away. In other words: reinforcing fear by wearing a mask does nothing to diminish that fear which is what we have to do.

Perhaps, just perhaps, he might take this argument on board. Either way I was encouraged that he was sceptical of the whole business as indeed, I’m beginning to think, are very many other people who wear masks ‘just to be considerate of others’.

161730 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to Harry hopkins, 10, #1143 of 2057 🔗

Its crazy how many are conditioned into believing that they may be carrying the virus without symptoms and dont want to pass it on. Some feel like they are heroes by wearing it, to protect others. If you don’t wear one, you’re plain selfish. How on earth will they ever turn this around and get rid of those damn rotten masks.

162096 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Janice21, #1144 of 2057 🔗

How many people actually know the reason why they should wear a mask is so THEY do not infect others?
I am sure a lot of people think it stops the virus entering their mouth and nose when breathing in.

162105 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Janice21, #1145 of 2057 🔗

They won’t. The masks are here to stay. People will still be asking this question in 10 years time.

162257 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Janice21, #1146 of 2057 🔗

The vast majority of sheeples wear nappies be ause they think it protects them .

Now who’s selfish?

161738 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Harry hopkins, 11, #1147 of 2057 🔗

My take is similar. As masks have negligible effect, in terms of the actual evidence, it begs the question why? Especially as without mandates it was a very small number who wore them. As demonstrated by your friend.

So the answer is that instead of making people feel safe they are designed for the opposite. They let people know in a very visual way the virus is out there. That we are in fact in a new normal. It’s a nudge technique to get people adhering to social distancing and general hermit practices.

161742 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Harry hopkins, 17, #1148 of 2057 🔗

Pretty sure that when the Government brought in the mandatory face masks, one of the reasons they gave was to remind people that we are not in normal times (I guess too many people were getting back to normal in July).

i.e. the main purpose of masks is a deliberate policy to keep up the level of fear in the community with a visible reminder of the new normal.

162002 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to zacaway, 3, #1149 of 2057 🔗

I totally agree with that. Masks are all about elevating fear levels primarily and then they also have many other psychological and societal “benefits” for “them”. Not for us.

162039 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to zacaway, 2, #1150 of 2057 🔗

Has anyone tried asking a mask zealot when they intend to stop wearing a mask and on what grounds they will make that decision?

I think some might wake up when they hear themselves expressing completely stupid replies to those questions…or if they actually can’t answer the questions..

161747 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Harry hopkins, 11, #1151 of 2057 🔗

That’s the point I make as well. Far from reducing fear, masks sustain it by confirming to people that there must be something dangerous out there.

I think the real reason they are so popular with some people is that they give an illusion of personal control.

161827 ▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Mark, 3, #1152 of 2057 🔗

I think you are right Mark. People seemed to have ceased on face masks like someone drowning grasps onto a lifebuoy. With their masks of invincibility they are controlling the virus and being part of the ‘team’. It’s delusional but scared people behave in delusional ways.

161773 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Harry hopkins, 15, #1153 of 2057 🔗

100% with you.

We have no less than a MORAL DUTY not to wear the masks. They create fear, terror and subservience.

161789 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Harry hopkins, 12, #1154 of 2057 🔗

It isn’t our duty to pander to the fears or delusions of others just to make them feel comfortable,it just reinforces those fears and delusions,Why should anyone wear a mask to the detriment of their own health and/or convictions to placate the feelings of someone else.Anyone who feels better wearing a mask can do so but those who oppose it should have the equal freedom not to.Every time someone wears a mask to make someone else happier or simply for an easier life is preventing an end to the madness,if the number of maskless people reaches a critical mass the whole charade will collapse quickly.From my experiences recently that critical mass will never be reached,I hope to be proved wrong,but I just can’t see it happening judging by the 99.99% compliance in our town.

161798 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Harry hopkins, 6, #1155 of 2057 🔗

Jeez pandering to terrified (by HMG) human shaped automatons will keep us in this state forever. If someone is mad you do not help by going along with the delusions…ever!

161865 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to KBuchanan, 5, #1156 of 2057 🔗

There is the possibility that they made masks mandatory to bump up the severity of infections to justify the lethal theatre.
Peru vs Brazil.
Michigan vs N Dakota
Spain & UK vs Sweden.
All indicate that those countries that indulge the lunatic bedwetting mask wearing see more and worse cases than those that do not.
3 seperate continents, same phenomenon in each.
More mask wearing = more cases and higher viral load through people rebreathing their exhaust gases.
Correlation is not causation but sometimes it’s a big f****** cluestick.

161720 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #1157 of 2057 🔗

https://jordanschachtel.substack.com/p/first-choice-how-china-and-the-who?r=6a3x3&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&utm_source=twitter ‘First Choice’: How China and the WHO created mass ventilator hysteria
 And harmed innocents along the way.

161757 ▶▶ ted, replying to swedenborg, 5, #1158 of 2057 🔗

This steady drip of evidence pointing to the inefficacy of a course of treatment advocated by bureaucrats at the WHO and mindlessly adopted by states and hospitals in countries with high mortality. In the US hospitals were paid to go to the vent first, and New York seemed to do so with great vim and vigor. The implication is that all estimates of fatality are wildly biased by treatment modalities early on, meaning that covid19 is likely less deadly than normal flu absent the murderous policies of politicians and bureaucrats. States kill people much more efficiently than any virus ever has. When will we finally learn this horrible lesson of the modern era?

161821 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to swedenborg, 3, #1159 of 2057 🔗

Great find. The lawsuits in the U.S. will be legion. Is W.H.O. legally liable for the advice that it gives out or does it have immunity, I wonder?

161893 ▶▶▶ DespairSquid, replying to Tim Bidie, 2, #1160 of 2057 🔗

I think almost everyone is freed from liability by the Corona virus emergency legislation that was passed in most countries.

161883 ▶▶ DespairSquid, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1161 of 2057 🔗

I had wondered where that guidance had come from. That alone has been responsible for a large number of deaths attributed to Covid.

There’s more than a few indications now that China were not forthcoming about how they dealt with their outbreak so apparently successfully (at best) and (at worst) misled the West onto a crazy trajectory. If it’s the latter then their scheme must have succeeded beyond their wildest dreams.

The only thing which gives me pause in calling it the latter is the Russian experience. Although their death rate has been pretty good (good stuff that HCQ) they did seem to have a fairly widespread outbreak.

That said, they now have a vaccine. Or saline injection so they can claim a vaccine and go back to normal.

And China are having mass raves and their economy is wide open. Hmm…

161732 RickH, replying to RickH, 6, #1162 of 2057 🔗

What is so depressing is the complete absence of anything resembling journalism. I know I’m stating the bleedin’ obvious, but this current breed must be exceptional in their public school/Oxbridge network-bred lack of nous or curiosity.

I mean – it makes you want to celebrate the Philby’s etc. of the 1950s who,coming from much the same background, at least did something other than just scratch backs and lick arses in pursuit of personal advancement.

How often do you hear a question such as :

“Secretary of State : The measures you have introduced have, time after time, resulted in no beneficial outcome, have they? If your strategy has been so brilliant, why aren’t we in the same position as Sweden, which, without masks and various forms of imprisonment based on faulty testing, is managing life very much as normal.

It seems the votes are in, given the hard evidence.

Shouldn’t you resign with such a record of failure?”

161796 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to RickH, 1, #1163 of 2057 🔗

Your comment is exceptional in its wilful distastefulness.

Philby was a criminal who sent thousands of Lithuanians, Albanians, Estonians, Georgians and Armenians to torture and death, and for every agent captured through Philby’s criminal activity, 40 of their friends and relatives were also tortured, then put to death.

Do you celebrate mass murder?

161833 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #1164 of 2057 🔗

Oh FFS. You silly man.

161844 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to RickH, 3, #1165 of 2057 🔗

The point I was making was about the thousands condemned to death or servitude by the lockdown of health services and lockdown in general with the complicity of the copy-cat privileged scribblers who have betrayed their profession for an easy life.

162166 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to RickH, -1, #1166 of 2057 🔗

‘….it makes you want to celebrate the Philby’s etc. of the 1950s’

All will have noted that you do not retract.

You are not to be taken seriously.

162169 ▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to RickH, -1, #1167 of 2057 🔗

Intemperate language always gives the game away.

162054 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to RickH, 1, #1168 of 2057 🔗

It’s not just this country.
There’s all too often a particular narrative that they all stick to, almost without exception. One of those is the “mostly peaceful riots” by BLM supporters, and anyone who opposes our cultural heritage being destroyed or defaced is a “far right extremist,” just as those going to t anti-lockdown protests are “conspiracy nuts” or “covidiots.”

I’ve seen this going on for a long time. There are too many activists posing as journalists, and not enough real journalists.

161737 Hopeful, replying to Hopeful, 4, #1169 of 2057 🔗

Quick update to my message about text from chemist yesterday. Telephoned them just now. Told me the message had, “…gone out wrong.” So nothing to worry about, just make sure you give enough time for your order to get from the GP to them. Strange don’t you think?

161772 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Hopeful, #1170 of 2057 🔗

Thanks for the update.

What a bizarre time to be making a careless schoolboy error like this.

161809 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Richard O, #1171 of 2057 🔗

What a bizarre time to be making a careless schoolboy error like this.

Copying the governments and its advisors ? 🙂

161775 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Hopeful, 2, #1172 of 2057 🔗

or they heard about the injunction….

161749 Mrs issedoff, replying to Mrs issedoff, 28, #1173 of 2057 🔗

There is an article on the daily vile website, Kate Garraway saying she wants to show the lockdown rebels a picture of her extremely ill husband. I am sick of this fear porn being pushed down our throat by the msm. It is sad that he got the virus and is very sick, I however could respond by saying that I would like to show her a picture of someone dying of cancer. It is not a pleasant thing to see (I have on a couple of occasions), there are going to be a lot more of these deaths if the NHS doesn’t get its act together and start treating all illnesses. I hope that I don’t come across as callous but I am as angry as she is but for different reasons.

161782 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to Mrs issedoff, 23, #1174 of 2057 🔗

Did lockdown stop her husband becoming ill? No? Then she needs to shut the fuck up. Anyone one of us could roll out a family member who’s been badly affected by lockdown, but we don’t have a national TV platform.

161786 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Mrs issedoff, 19, #1175 of 2057 🔗

Great! then I would love to show Garraway a picture of my 77 year old mother who had a Lung-ectomy (chamber removed) due to Lung CA 2 years ago, but decided to huff and puff to her local store until I got her a mask exempt badge and lanyard.

161819 ▶▶ Draper233, replying to Mrs issedoff, 7, #1176 of 2057 🔗


Presumably if we showed a picture of a person who had a bad reaction to a nut allergy, Garraway would advocate the banning of nuts in this country?

Logic of a child.

161831 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Mrs issedoff, 17, #1177 of 2057 🔗

Just found out that an acquaintance’s friend died last Sunday from her cancer returning – it was not spotted due to a long series of cancelled hospital appointments.

Kate Garroway should realise that she lucky her husband is still alive, and he has benefitted from NHS treatment that others have been fatally denied.

161862 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Mrs issedoff, 11, #1178 of 2057 🔗

My OH’s colleague told her that their OH was diagnosed with cancer a few months ago, but the NHS cancelled their treatment (due to Covid, obvs) now it’s too late to treat and they are terminal.

These bastards in Government are letting people die on the altar of Covid. Why do these lives not matter?

161900 ▶▶ peter, replying to Mrs issedoff, 3, #1179 of 2057 🔗

She’s a lying bitch, draper is a psyop.

161941 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to peter, 2, #1180 of 2057 🔗

on the very few occasions i put on GMB and she is on, she is always going on about her husband. I think she takes the view that we should all die from undiagnosed cancer to make sure he survives whatever the co-morbidity affliction is

162068 ▶▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to mjr, 1, #1181 of 2057 🔗

#OnlyCovidDeathCounts for some people

161906 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Mrs issedoff, 9, #1182 of 2057 🔗

Can i show her a picture of my mother in law who has breast cancer and has not yet been treated because NHS is now Covid only service? The fucking audacity of these people is criminal!

161975 ▶▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to Thomas_E, #1183 of 2057 🔗

That last sentence says it all. Sorry about your MIL and for all those adversely affected by this disgusting situation.

162099 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Mrs issedoff, 2, #1184 of 2057 🔗

Isn’t her very sick husband Derek Draper? Old hands may remember Mr Draper as a much-loathed PR guy for Blair & Brown.

IMO he’s getting his karma and in no way deserves sympathy.

162381 ▶▶▶ dickyboy, replying to AidanR, #1185 of 2057 🔗

Yep. Obese champagne swilling tosser. Zero fucks given.

161751 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 19, #1186 of 2057 🔗

Shopped at Aldi, Lidl (replacing Asda) and Home Bargains today. No change at any of them, no hassle, door goons or anything. Most staff unmasked, at least behind screens, only saw two or three other bare faced shoppers in whole trip. Wondering about writing to their head offices, thanking them for not going AsdaMental, but strangely, I worry it might push them into it. Maybe we should keep ‘good stuff’ to our selves?

161758 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Sam Vimes, 7, #1187 of 2057 🔗

No,don’t tell them,it might just be a local thing that their head offices don’t know about.

161778 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #1188 of 2057 🔗

I shop at Lidl and Home Bargains and they are always (and thankfully) quite laid back about it.

161848 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #1189 of 2057 🔗

I think the supermarkets gave been got at by the Government, otherwise, what explanation us there for the ‘Big 4’ all tightening up on the rules at the same time?

162062 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1190 of 2057 🔗

I went into waitrose the other day to collect a parcel. Unmasked, nobody batted an eyelid. Encouraged, I even did a little shop. When did buying basil become subversive?

162357 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Sam Vimes, #1191 of 2057 🔗

My experience of Aldi mirrors yours. They do what they are required to do but no more. No one-way systems. No meeter/greeter to harrass you.
I reckon they have savvy management who value turnover and profit highly.
In this case, I support them doing so!
And there is a bustle in Aldi. People seem alive; or at least not entirely comatose.
My other local is Tescos, which seems to have an excess of staff just standing there doing basically nothing except observing shoppers, and the shoppers themselves are silent and downcast (at least to my eyes).
I loathe one-way systems, especially when I forget something located in Aisle 1.

161759 Steve, replying to Steve, 34, #1192 of 2057 🔗

My wife came back upset from our local small ASDA today.

She wears an mask exempt lanyard because she has sinus problems and other health issues.

A member of staff made a beeline for her, acting quite hostile and intimidating. It was obvious they were going to have a go about her lack of a mask until my wife showed her the lanyard. It freaked my wife out as she’s not encountered such a hostile approach before.

My wife phoned the Asda complaints line, so hopefully the staff will be told to be more gentle and polite if they need to check about mask wearing.

Honestly this mask wearing edict is the most soul destroying part of this whole covid fiasco, on top of mandatory app usage. I really cannot be bothered with the hassle, so shops and pubs are not getting my custom until these silly rules are abolished.

161776 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to Steve, 19, #1193 of 2057 🔗

I agree, the mask thing gets me the most and I feel so sad especially when I see young kids wearing them. I hope your wife is ok. I was never one who really liked shopping anyway, but the whole mask thing makes me dread going to any shop now. Trying to start my Christmas shopping online but I always like to support local too. I enjoy going out for meals but I dont even want to now because most people masked up working or customers putting it on and off when standing. Utter lunacy honestly. I’m surprised that no one has ever challenged me by not wearing one, hopefully I never have the experience your wife did.

161785 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to Steve, 9, #1194 of 2057 🔗

The app itself is not, as far as I am aware, mandatory. If you don’t download it, if your phone or operating system can’t download it (Huawei, for example, or older operating systems) there’s no obligation to do anything.

If the Army comes to my door with a voluntary testing kit I have a lovely piece of Stilton to test.


161817 ▶▶▶ MizakeTheMizan, replying to DavidC, 6, #1195 of 2057 🔗

I’m willing to bet that the Stilton would prove to be Covid positive.

161898 ▶▶▶▶ Suzyv, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 3, #1196 of 2057 🔗

Funny enough apparently Tanzania, who have refused to follow WHO and have been doing their own thing (despite bribery by WHO), tested the PCR tests on a sheep, a goat and a papaya. It came back positive for 2 out of the 3 including the papaya. Say no more!

161936 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to DavidC, #1197 of 2057 🔗

but if you send that test in and the stilton is positive for covid, it is not the stilton that will have to isolate for two weeks!!!

162022 ▶▶▶ Steve, replying to DavidC, 1, #1198 of 2057 🔗

Try going into a pub without the app. Lots of reports of people being denied access without it.

162025 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Steve, 2, #1199 of 2057 🔗

People are going to need to carry a copy of the actual LAW in their pockets whenever attempting to enter a pub/shop/restaurant at this rate!

161803 ▶▶ Draper233, replying to Steve, 10, #1200 of 2057 🔗

You should boycott Asda anyway after their introduction of marshals.

My local Morrisons and Tesco have continued to be very sensible and i’ve yet to be challenged once by any member of staff or other customers.

161811 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Steve, 5, #1201 of 2057 🔗

Happened to my wife a few days ago too, at Sainsburies. Hysterical youngster at the till refused to serve my wife until she had masked up.

161850 ▶▶▶ Pebbles, replying to Mr Dee, 15, #1202 of 2057 🔗

Have you complained about this? If not, you should.
I have also noticed a considerable increase in hostile looks towards me on trains and in shops when not wearing my mask and an exemption lanyard instead. Another (African American) woman was bullied by a mid-40s white guy last week on a SE train for not wearing her mask and without a lanyard. It ended up in a massive shouting match before she left the train. He was moaning on about how everything would be so much better if people just wore masks and wore them correctly… and how one of his friends was really ill with Covid. I bit my lips not to ask him how many of his friends will most likely succumb to cancer in the next 10 years… He clearly didn’t get the memo about the 82 bacteria and 4 fungi found in a child’s mask at the end of one normal school day (tested by Charity for Children in Germany).
It’s a very worrying development. During the summer I felt safe without a mask, now I don’t, but not because I am threatened by a virus but threatened by idiotic mask zealots. It might be worthwhile pointing Toby and Will towards the increased hostilities and take it up in their daily updates….?

162000 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #1203 of 2057 🔗

Best response: unload shopping on conveyor belt, walk out.

162030 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Lms23, #1204 of 2057 🔗

Good one! Plus: leave on conveyor belt a copy of the law re masks, plus the disability discrimination act, making sure to include information regarding the fines that can be levied if found in breach of it..

162090 ▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Carrie, #1205 of 2057 🔗

What is one’s recourse when this provision of the DDA is breached? Is it a police matter or a civil matter?

161895 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Steve, 9, #1206 of 2057 🔗

Hope your wife is OK

I had a similar encounter at my local M&S and despite the manager apologising, I still phoned head office. My logic is that if I don’t help put a stop to that despicable behaviour, someone with more severe issues than me like dementia and severe anxiety could be harassed.

I’ve stayed away from that branch since. The one near my workplace has been more sensible.

I’ve had no problems at Morrisons, Tesco, Co-op, Sainsbury’s, Lidl and even Waitrose!

161903 ▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Bart Simpson, 9, #1207 of 2057 🔗

Good point. “We’re all in this together..” well unless you’re – exempt, have breathing difficulties, autism, communication difficulties, need clarity with hearing, lip reading, or a multitude of other things – we’re not with you. But we’re all in this together….

162077 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Stringfellow Hawke, 1, #1208 of 2057 🔗

My friend is a support worker and says some of the residents in the supported house are “going backwards in development “due to lack of social interaction.
No clubs, classes, sports since March.
The staff run out of ideas how to keep them busy.

162584 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Stringfellow Hawke, 1, #1209 of 2057 🔗

Businesses seem to be tone deaf when it comes to the disconnect between their rhetoric and reality.

It won’t last when their sales plummet and they’ll go bust.

162033 ▶▶▶ Steve, replying to Bart Simpson, #1210 of 2057 🔗

She’s fine now thanks. Though it is denting her confidence a bit. She’s finding it hard with the lockdown also causing issues for our adult special needs son, who can’t do any of his regular activities, so he’s always around and she’s not getting a break. I’m working from home so I can step in to help, but of course I also have to work.

162251 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Steve, #1211 of 2057 🔗

You all three have my deepest sympathy. You’ve obviously done wonderfully well so far.
Keep your hearts up. We are with you.

161764 BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 24, #1212 of 2057 🔗

Leo Varadkar must lurk on here or has he been smoking crack? Ah well, better late than never.

“What I see other countries doing – Belgium is the most recent example – is that they are no longer using case numbers to make their decisions on restrictions and on policy,” said Varadkar.

“They are looking at hospitalisations, ICU capacity and deaths. It is a job for us as politicians to say to the public health people that maybe we should be focusing on that.

“The objective was to make sure our health service did not get overwhelmed, not to lock down the country and the economy until there was no Covid at all. That is not realistic.”


161791 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 4, #1213 of 2057 🔗

Even there though, the term ‘case numbers’ is being used. They’re NOT CASES! They’re positive test results using a test that is open to so many questions.


161851 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to DavidC, 3, #1214 of 2057 🔗

No, no, DC; they are infections that will kill us all. Do keep up, dear. 🙂

161904 ▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Sam Vimes, #1215 of 2057 🔗

Lol! Thanks for correcting me Sam!


161837 ▶▶ Will, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 4, #1216 of 2057 🔗

That is great news.

161861 ▶▶ DRW, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #1217 of 2057 🔗

Strange, I thought Ireland was worse than us. Maybe they’ve reconsidered things.

161872 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #1218 of 2057 🔗

I wondered why he felt the need to ask this question….then realised he is no longer the Taoiseach! Still the deputy though, and Minister of Trade/Employment, so not an insignificant contribution.

162045 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Richard O, #1219 of 2057 🔗

He is the Minster with responsibility for employment figures! I hope his civil servants (WFH) have told him a few home truths about the effects of lockdown on long term employment figures.

161966 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #1220 of 2057 🔗

Better late than never as you say. I hope Varadkar pushes this hard. NPHET and their hangers on are a disgrace.

And in the meantime today NPHET are recommending restrictions on household visits for the whole country ( ie from 1 household only ) . Not clear what this is supposed to be based on if anything because different counties are at completely different levels. Kind of undermines the whole cases game?

161982 ▶▶▶ Draper233, replying to godowneasy, 1, #1221 of 2057 🔗

Well to paraphrase Peter Hitchens, “this time next year, everyone will say they were a sceptic”

162023 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #1222 of 2057 🔗

Maybe the Irish listened to what Giesecke said to their Covid committee last week?

Ireland is closer to home for people – bigger ‘freedoms’ there and the UK mask-and-lockdown fanatics might just wake up and take notice. We can but hope!

162040 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #1223 of 2057 🔗

I’ve been criticising the Irish Government since I was 16 (now 46).

They are probably watching my internet posts and picked up the idea from them!

161792 Basics, replying to Basics, 11, #1224 of 2057 🔗

Remember that “awful woman” incident that did for globalist PM Gordon Brown? Well, this is not of the same career ending crush as that – but it another string in the sceptics bow. A mighty well strung bow it is too.

**Hot Mic** PA Gov& PA State Representative caught calling facemasks “political theater”


Short clip – as with most twitter available for all to see and view without sign up or a twitter account.

161846 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Basics, 5, #1225 of 2057 🔗

Minor claim to (not) fame: that ‘awful woman’ goes in the Wethy’s I (used to) booze in!

162646 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Sam Vimes, #1226 of 2057 🔗

You ought to be on posters Sam!

161896 ▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Basics, 1, #1227 of 2057 🔗

Anyone taking bets on any follow up statements? Probably short odds on, “I was framed” (aka The Pelosi) followed closely in the betting by “but Trump… BUT TRUMP!”

161994 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Basics, 4, #1228 of 2057 🔗

Of course.
Most of these leaders won’t bother with masks when they think they can get away with it, and journalists.
There was Nancy Pelosi caught on cctv in a hair salon without a mask, when it’s mandatory in her district to wear a mask everywhere, plus hair salons have not been allowed to reopen.
I saw a clip of a journalist who removed her mask as soon as a White House press conference was over and she thought the cameras were off.
The tv presenter brother of Governor Andrew Cuomo, i.e. Chris Cuomo, did a big thing about self-isolating in his basement for two weeks because he was supposed to be CV19-positive, except he was caught outside by a member of the public without a mask, when he was still supposed to be in quarantine.
It’s all theatre and show. They know a lot of it is b.s., especially the mask wearing.
The rules make little sense, and i don’t think they’re supposed to.

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” (Voltaire)
One atrocity is the near-closure of the NHS and withdrawal of health services from too many people, and sending infected people into care homes.

Theodore Dalrymple:
“Political correctness is communist propaganda writ small. In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, nor to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is to co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself. One’s standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to.”
The CV19 propaganda is along similar lines. It’s illogical and perverse, and designed to humiliate.

162112 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Lms23, 1, #1229 of 2057 🔗

Yep, totally agree with all that.

162819 ▶▶▶ helen, replying to Lms23, 1, #1230 of 2057 🔗

Great post thanks

162017 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, #1231 of 2057 🔗

Thanks for finding that – I referred to it in a post yesterday, but could not re-find the link!

162072 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Basics, 1, #1232 of 2057 🔗

The difference in outcomes between the two episodes is a function of which side the media is on.

161793 petgor, replying to petgor, 28, #1233 of 2057 🔗

I am now becoming an unashamed anti lockdown fanatic. I have noticed in my area, that businesses of various sizes are putting up notices outside their premises stating “no masks, no entry” or similar wording.

I have checked the updated (24.9.2020) government guidelines, which I know might have changed in the last week!, but still they refer to exemptions.

I have therefore written to the council asking that its inspectors tour the area and when such erroneous notices are seen, to have words with proprietors so that those with exemptions will not be too scared to enter those premises.

Clearly, no one not even ministers know what the hell is going on, in which case misinterpretation or overreaction will be rife.

161842 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to petgor, 6, #1234 of 2057 🔗

Well, that’s implied discrimination, right there.

161843 ▶▶ Draper233, replying to petgor, 13, #1235 of 2057 🔗

“No masks, no entry”

To which I respond: thanks for letting me know, I will never do business with you ever again.

161854 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Draper233, 5, #1236 of 2057 🔗

There’s a farming supplies place around here that’s gone full muzzealot about it, looks really aggressive.

161902 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Draper233, 5, #1237 of 2057 🔗

I saw a shop near Covent Garden that had that sign. Surprise, surprise – no customers!!!

161917 ▶▶▶▶ Draper233, replying to Bart Simpson, #1238 of 2057 🔗

Ooh, that sounds more like my kind of shop.

Might have to seek that one out!

162015 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to petgor, 2, #1239 of 2057 🔗

Some legal cases for discrimination need to be brought against such places – a few hefty fines might lead to a change..

161800 p02099003, replying to p02099003, #1240 of 2057 🔗

The harbingers of doom are back https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54371559

161828 ▶▶ Will, replying to p02099003, 1, #1241 of 2057 🔗

We know a vaccine won’t make any difference if it miraculously arrives because no one in their right mind, under the age of sixty it going to take it.

161871 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Will, 7, #1242 of 2057 🔗

I’m well over the age of sixty – but I’m not barmy enough to accept an under-tested vaccine produced on the back of government prior purchase (which has to then be justified by uptake), absolution of responsibility for purchasers, and the explicit short-circuiting of regulation.

I’d be less stupid sending money to an unknown Nigerian on the promise of untold riches 🙂

161882 ▶▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to RickH, 8, #1243 of 2057 🔗

We are of an age that remembers a certain drug that was well tested (by the manufacturers) which ended really well for Distillers. Thalidomide

161891 ▶▶▶▶ Draper233, replying to RickH, #1244 of 2057 🔗

I bet Hancock’s done the latter at least once in his life

161892 ▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to RickH, #1245 of 2057 🔗

Spot on Rick!


161948 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to RickH, 10, #1246 of 2057 🔗

comment image ?

161932 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Will, 1, #1247 of 2057 🔗

If Ellwood gets his way, you won’t have much of a choice:

And the Government’s already confirmed they won’t rule out compulsory vaccines:

162011 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to zacaway, 1, #1248 of 2057 🔗

This needs to be publicised more – might wake a few people up..

162046 ▶▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Carrie, #1249 of 2057 🔗

Oh, and just for good measure, they also want to use unlicensed vaccines (i.e. not completed testing) and absolve the manufactureres of liability in those cases if it causes any side-effects (obvs, because they’re not fully tested):

162069 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Will, 1, #1250 of 2057 🔗

Every time we leave the house we are bombarded with evidence that ‘those in their right mind’ are extremely thin on the ground.

162569 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Will, #1251 of 2057 🔗

I’m over 60 and certainly not having it voluntarily!

161802 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 3, #1252 of 2057 🔗

Just sent this by a friend –

http://tapnewswire.com/2020/09/ultimate-proof-covid-19-was-planned-to-usher-in-the-new-world-order/&nbsp ;

It gives a fact-based summary of how things have got to where they are today.

161818 ▶▶ Kate, replying to JohnB, 2, #1253 of 2057 🔗

already disappeared.

161901 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Kate, 1, #1254 of 2057 🔗

Found it on archive.today



162173 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to JohnB, #1257 of 2057 🔗

Take the /&nbsp off the link for it to work. At least that’s what I had to do.

162361 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to JohnB, #1258 of 2057 🔗

Your link now appears dead….
At least for me.

161810 Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #1259 of 2057 🔗

In no way am I an expert, I know, you have spotted that already! But does Norway’s casedemic explicitly show increase in testing. There is an odd stepped characteristic to their ‘case’/positive test numbers. Here is the graph:


To my untrained eye it appears possible there was an opening of testing centres or other cause for increased testing about halfway through the Autumn casedemic.

161822 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Basics, #1260 of 2057 🔗

I think the ‘stepping’ is just a recording artefact.

But I thought that Norway had stopped random testing because of its observed pitfalls where there was a low incidence of disease – ??

161859 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to RickH, 1, #1261 of 2057 🔗

Interesting you can spot it so clearly. Is there any quick way you can describe why artefact. I’m not disputing just that I may be able to learn something if it doesn’t require a socially distanced online degree to get it. Thank Rick – please don’t waste any time only if it’s a simple description.

Norway may be swaying towards a Swedish, gasp, style arrangement/deal with CoV 2

161869 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Basics, #1262 of 2057 🔗

Didn’t the PM say in May that their lockdown was ineffective and there wouldn’t be another one?

162007 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, #1264 of 2057 🔗

Yep, Norway opening up more – see here: https://twitter.com/jhnhellstrom/status/1311278913339953153

161815 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 3, #1265 of 2057 🔗

Another study showing T cells immunity
T cell assays differentiate clinical and subclinical SARS-CoV-2 infections from cross-reactive antiviral responses

“In contrast, the same healthy subjects showed responses to the S1 and S2 subunits of spike protein in a 7-day CTV proliferation assay, confirmed by analysis of lactate production. The most likely explanation for this is that people retained cross-reactive central memory responses to the spike protein of seasonal coronaviruses that circulate in the UK, although cross-reactivity from other human microorganisms is also possible, as has been described for HIV, influenza and Ebola epitopes in naïve subjects. These cross-reactive responses may have been underestimated in previous reports using more ex vivo type assays with limited sensitivity.”

161863 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1266 of 2057 🔗

This is what puzzles me when they talk about asymptomatic cases are these actually immune responses? I understand that some immunity will protect you from Covid 19 disease but will not stop the virus replicating in your upper respiratory tract. So that whilst you may be immune you can still carry enough of the virus to test +ve. I feel that I do not know enough about how immunity works but that it is more tricky than some imagine.

161873 ▶▶▶ Willow, replying to Steve Martindale, 4, #1267 of 2057 🔗

I am of the opinion that so called asymptomatic “infections” are simply instances of positive PCR with dead virus.

161889 ▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Willow, 3, #1268 of 2057 🔗

Or false positives. Or related coronavirus fragments. Or unrelated coronavirus fragments. Or recovered individuals. Etc.


161816 RickH, replying to RickH, 8, #1269 of 2057 🔗

A while back, I was talking with a close neighbour who is another knowledgeable sceptic and whose articles appear regularly in various parts of the press. We swap information, analysis and views on a regular basis.

At the time, I twitched a bit at his scathing condemnation of public health professionals in a pretty broad way. But I fear that emerging events have persuaded me that there is a considerable weight of poor practitioners in that area – as well as in the related fields of epidemiology, virology and immunology.

Such specialisms should be allowed to inform policy in so far as their limited expertise allows. But they should never be allowed to actually shape it from their narrow and sheltered perspectives.

161853 ▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, 6, #1270 of 2057 🔗

I posted the other day about technocracy and people with shiny hammers being convinced everything is a nail, and determined to solve every problem at all costs, so desperate that they distort reality to fit the parameters of the problem as they originally saw it. I’ve seen that happen in my own business sector and I know at least one senior public health official who seems to be suffering from this “every problem has a solution, a perfect solution, and I will find it” delusion.

161968 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to RickH, 1, #1271 of 2057 🔗

Public health professionals are just people. Some are very good, some are mediocre, some are bad. It’s also a field where it’s difficult to get removed for incompetence.

162044 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to RickH, #1272 of 2057 🔗

True enough, but the fundamental issue is that we have a government of lawyers and arts graduates who are not equipped to sceptically interrogate the claims of the ‘experts’.

Any discipline with ‘public’ or ‘planning’ in its title is going to attract dregs.

161820 mattghg, replying to mattghg, 16, #1273 of 2057 🔗

Driving into Oxford on the A40 today I was confronted by one of those county council traffic display boards, screaming:



What kind of offering to the gods do you think they would like me to make?

161826 ▶▶ annie, replying to mattghg, 5, #1274 of 2057 🔗

Attach lead wrights to the cases to stop them rising.

161829 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to mattghg, 12, #1275 of 2057 🔗

Maybe something more mundane, say, remove this shit show of a government, open hospitals, resume cancer treatments, allow old folk to see their relatives… Bit fanciful, I know.

161832 ▶▶ DRW, replying to mattghg, 5, #1276 of 2057 🔗

Back over the May bank holiday there was one around here saying
Couldn’t even think of an original slogan.

161923 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to DRW, 1, #1277 of 2057 🔗

the logic being that they dont want you to have an accident which would necessitate the NHS doing some non covid treatment?

161942 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to mjr, #1278 of 2057 🔗

Probably. This was during peak NHS worship when we still had the weekly clapping ritual.

162100 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to DRW, 2, #1279 of 2057 🔗

no – when “they” had the weekly clapping ritual

161834 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to mattghg, -13, #1280 of 2057 🔗

Burning Peter Hitchens alive?

161890 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to mattghg, #1281 of 2057 🔗

What sort of act do they want? The great SARS-COV-2 disappearing act?

161959 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to mattghg, 2, #1282 of 2057 🔗

That’s in no way scaremongering propaganda, is it??

161840 annie, replying to annie, 10, #1283 of 2057 🔗

Does anybody else know the ghost stories of M. R. James? They used
to scare me stiff. Now I re-read them for their superb artistry.
One of his nastiest ghosts is the demon in Canon Alberic’s Scrapbook . Quote:

‘the eyes, of a fiery yellow, against which the pupils showed black and intense, and the exulting hate and thirst to destroy life which shone there, were the most horrifying features in the whole vision.’

For ever now, to me, that demon will be Wancock.

161880 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to annie, 1, #1284 of 2057 🔗

The BBC’s M R James ghost stories were at the zenith of it’s broadcasting.- ‘Whistle And I’ll Come To You’ was genuinely scary the first time I watched it. They’re on YouTube. I’ve read a couple of his stories – I must read more of them!


162770 ▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to DavidC, #1285 of 2057 🔗

M. R. James described (Sheridan) Le Fanu as “absolutely in the first rank as a writer of ghost stories”. His ‘ Madam Crowl’s Ghost’ scared me witless as a child. Available on gutenberg.org.

161894 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to annie, 1, #1286 of 2057 🔗

I love his stories and read them regularly; the early BBC dramas are excellent as well:


161899 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to wendyk, 1, #1287 of 2057 🔗
162013 ▶▶ theanalyst, replying to Basics, 1, #1289 of 2057 🔗

Great stuff. Its not an easy read but I reckon this little nugget I pasted below could be important.

“In our study we identified and characterized the exact T cell epitopes that govern SARS-CoV-2 cross-reactivity and proved similarity to human common cold coronaviruses regarding individual peptide sequences, physiochemical and HLA-binding properties 38 , 39 . Notably, we detected SARS-CoV-2 cross-reactive T cells in 81% of unexposed individuals after a 12-d pre-stimulation.”

More evidence to help explain lots of mysteries like why do I have the antibodies but the wife does not, or why the south of England appears to have already reached herd immunity etc etc.

162636 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to theanalyst, #1290 of 2057 🔗

Good comment thanks. I agree the study seems quite a mile stone.

161857 annie, replying to annie, 8, #1291 of 2057 🔗

Reading yet again about the appalling treatment of students. I’ve just remembered, with a wry inner smile, that Cambridge undergraduates are ( or were in my day) referred to formally as being ‘in statu pupillari’, which means literally ‘suckers’.

161884 ▶▶ DRW, replying to annie, 1, #1292 of 2057 🔗

I too despise the universities. But by finishing my degree I’m saved from having to interact with the dystopia.

161921 ▶▶ mjr, replying to annie, 2, #1293 of 2057 🔗

just speaking to my daughter. She is back but in a shared house so not subject to uni accommodation rules. She had her first seminar today . Via internet!. Doesnt know when she will get a face to face.

162037 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to annie, 1, #1294 of 2057 🔗

I’m actually delighted that these young people who’s every first demand is for the government to do more things for them are finding out good and hard how that always works out.

162115 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to annie, #1295 of 2057 🔗

Annie, can I just ask – have you tried to reinstate your old username on this site?

162244 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Carrie, #1296 of 2057 🔗

Don’t know how! Don’t know how I lost it!

162769 ▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to annie, #1297 of 2057 🔗

When the Reply box comes up, can’t you just type your ‘correct’ handle into the Name line? Then your posts are ‘waiting approval’ for a short while (presumably you’re t/a registering as a new user) then it all goes back to normal?

161864 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 24, #1298 of 2057 🔗

Sofar compliant Mrs B just started to rebel and reports back that her first maskless visit in a SW London Waitrose of all places went very well, unhassled and that she was not the only one maskless there at all.
Maybe the tide is really turning, a few weeks ago when I went, any Waitrose was still a no-go zone with a 100% bedwetter ratio, entrance control snd full compliance.

161970 ▶▶ annie, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #1299 of 2057 🔗

Congrats to Mrs B.!

162028 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Jay Berger, 3, #1300 of 2057 🔗

Perhaps they’ve noticed footfall has gone down. I did get a questionnaire after an online delivery where they asked whether I shopped online or in store. I said I preferred in store but wouldn’t mask or want to shop with masked zombies.

162036 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #1301 of 2057 🔗

The tide isn’t turning. I was in a Sainsbury’s megagigahypermarket yesterday, where they have never had mask enforcement… I was the only person with no mask in the entire place. That’s one fewer than there were on my previous visit.

There were no dirty looks or protestations, but there were still wall-to-wall sheeple.

162359 ▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Jay Berger, #1302 of 2057 🔗

Go Go Mrs B ,Well done .

161870 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 22, #1303 of 2057 🔗

Someone here mentioned that the National Trust have resorted to adverts to try to plug their shortfall as a result of people not renewing or cancelling their memberships..

It’s not just the NT, the other day I received a begging letter from the Royal Opera House about donating via naming a seat.

If it was during the good times Mr Bart and I would consider. Unfortunately we are entering bad times and given that our usual seats are not available anyway so no.

Am also unhappy with their cowardice and lack of will to lobby to end this insanity so that they can perform again.

I foresee more begging letters coming my way.

161876 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #1304 of 2057 🔗

Festival Theatre in Edinburgh has a giant building side banner ad. The curtain will rise again – text ‘something or other’ to a number to donate £10.

The giant building side print must have cost in the £10ks itself.

161931 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Basics, 7, #1305 of 2057 🔗

Makes you wonder that if they’re struggling for cash then why blow it on banner adverts and begging letters?

Should they not be banding together and lobbying the government? Surely they realise they can’t go on like this and that social distancing and masks will only accelerate their demise?

161897 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #1306 of 2057 🔗

Yes – it’s a difficult one, since the venues and companies are not in control of their destiny (I have a close family member bound up in the daily dilemmas of all this).

But they might start shouting ‘Foul!’ instead of ‘Well, we better had’

161911 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to RickH, 14, #1307 of 2057 🔗

there is a difference between those places not allowed to open such as theatres (for whom i have sympathy) and those places who can open but who just made the whole visiting experience so miserable that people stopped going, such as the NT

162003 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to mjr, 3, #1308 of 2057 🔗

The prices in most London theatres meant that seeing a show was mostly limited to elites and tourists – will only be (virtue-signalling) elites now, most likely…

161938 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to RickH, 10, #1309 of 2057 🔗

Agree. I do have sympathy for the ROH and the like but why are they not fighting?

I have more respect for a body like the Bournemouth Symphony whose CEO has said that he refuses to accept social distancing and reduced capacities and will fight for a return to the way it was before March 2020.

162093 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #1310 of 2057 🔗

I’m wondering whether there are no sceptics working in any of these places? Maybe we need to leaflet them with information on Global reset, with some links to look at…

Especially ones that rely heavily on foreign tourists visiting.

They might fight when they realise the bigger agenda is to kill them off completely…

162328 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, 3, #1311 of 2057 🔗

I’m one but unfortunately I am only a small cog in the machinery and it doesn’t help if the vast majority of my colleagues are pro-lockdown, social distancing and masking.

I’ve tried to bang the drum on why these current diktats are hurting our sector but its falling on deaf ears and its like trying to get blood out of a stone.

Sadly I think they will only wake up once compulsory redundancies become a reality. Which will happen.

161922 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Bart Simpson, 13, #1312 of 2057 🔗

Every single one of these institutions deserves to collapse. Without exception they have embraced the new normal with zealous enthusiasm. The best and only way we can fight back is by removing our financial support. The rest will take care of itself.

162334 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Richard O, 1, #1313 of 2057 🔗

Exactly. Time and again I’m surprised at how quickly these institutions simply rolled over without a fight and accepted the so-called new normal and not realising how these will damage them and accelerate their demise.

Am planning to write a letter to the ROH explaining why we’re not donating.

161954 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #1314 of 2057 🔗

The National Trust went woke and upset many of its members before CV19 appeared, along the likeability current British Library head librarian.

162341 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Lms23, 1, #1315 of 2057 🔗

Indeed and the current crisis has accelerated the National Trust’s woes and hitting the headlines for all the wrong reasons.

The British Library (an institution I admire but currently boycotting) seems hellbent on following the National Trust to the abyss.

161988 ▶▶ MDH, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #1316 of 2057 🔗

The OH has given a lot of money to The ROH over the years, but is thinking of cancelling this year. I’m a member of Garsington and Glyndebourne and will keep that up, at least for another year or so.
But I was so disheartened to see rehearsal pictures from Glyndebourne with everyone on stage in masks. I really don’t care if that’s government diktat. What sort of signal is it sending out to potential audiences?
Anyway, we’re not going to the autumn performances at Glyndebourne – or anywhere else – while we’re expected to sit muzzled and several seats away from other audience members. Sadly, judging by the amount of seats available, even in the “distanced” theatre, we’re not alone.
I’m with you, Bart – when is the arts sector going to insist on a return to full houses. If people are scared they’ll just stay away. It’s got to be worth the gamble.

162009 ▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to MDH, 5, #1317 of 2057 🔗

I hope those of you not renewing memberships have told them why. Realising that these restrictions, masks etc. are hitting them in the pocket might persuade these organisations to make more of a fuss rather than blindly following government diktat.

162344 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to MDH, 1, #1318 of 2057 🔗

I was chatting to someone who went to see Ralph Fiennes at the Bridge Theatre. She reported that even with “social distanced seats” there were several unsold seats and rafts of seats remained empty. If this was last year, the play would have been sold out.

That’s a question I will ask the ROH – are they going to insist on a return to full house and go back to normal? Mr Bart and I would happily return in a heartbeat.

162548 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, #1319 of 2057 🔗

even with “social distanced seats”

Oh dear!!

162390 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to MDH, 1, #1320 of 2057 🔗

But I was so disheartened to see rehearsal pictures from Glyndebourne with everyone on stage in masks. I really don’t care if that’s government diktat. What sort of signal is it sending out to potential audiences?

Same here. I follow one of the Royal Ballet’s ballerinas on Instagram and I was dismayed on seeing her and her fellow dancers masked during their rehearsals. Such photos would not motivate me to return to watch them.

162550 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #1321 of 2057 🔗

Isn’t wearing a face nappy while leaping around energetically rather dangerous?

162710 ▶▶▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Cheezilla, #1322 of 2057 🔗

Yes! There’s been at least 2 deaths of young people in the far east, linked directly to wearing mask while engaged in some kind of exercise activity… many other reports of collapse & emergency treatments.

162241 ▶▶ annie, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #1323 of 2057 🔗

The National Unworthy of Trust can beg, pray, exhort, grovel, roll in dust and ashes and lay itself down as a carpet under my feet, but I still will refuse to go and be treated like dirt in any of their Covid-worshipping properties.

162356 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, 2, #1324 of 2057 🔗

Agree.Makes you wonder if they realise how their worship of Coivd and everything woke is driving people away.

162551 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #1325 of 2057 🔗

Only if it’s pointed out to them.

161878 Draper233, replying to Draper233, 10, #1326 of 2057 🔗

The Guardian had 2 choices for their latest headline about Sweden:

a) highest new caseload since June b) no new related deaths have been recorded

What d’you reckon they went with?

161888 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Draper233, 3, #1327 of 2057 🔗

Ooooo -That’s a hard one 🙂

162001 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Draper233, #1328 of 2057 🔗

When was this? I’ve been out today and none of the Swedish newspapers in my local supermarket had anything Covid-Related on their cover…

162020 ▶▶▶ Draper233, replying to Carrie, #1329 of 2057 🔗

It’s on their website right now

162081 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Draper233, 2, #1330 of 2057 🔗

Clearly Sweden is not panicking though! Other news items deemed more important here today 🙂

162148 ▶▶▶▶▶ Draper233, replying to Carrie, 1, #1331 of 2057 🔗

Ahhh, you’re in Sweden! Makes sense now…I was wondering how you were seeing Swedish newspapers in your local shop!!

162118 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Draper233, 1, #1332 of 2057 🔗

has number of tests gone up in sweden?

162162 ▶▶▶ Draper233, replying to mjr, 3, #1333 of 2057 🔗

No idea, not sure they were interested in reporting that

162495 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to mjr, #1334 of 2057 🔗

No, if you are meaning very recently. Last week there were 128,852 PCR tests; the week before 139,471. The week before that, 142,673.
But they have increased the testing since week 35, when they only did 85,060 PCR tests.

This is the link to find all the testing stats: https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/smittskydd-beredskap/utbrott/aktuella-utbrott/covid-19/statistik-och-analyser/genomforda-tester-for-covid-19/ , but it is in Swedish!!!!

161879 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 35, #1335 of 2057 🔗

I don’t want to trot out the old cliches like ” My old grandad smoked 150 fags a day and was on his 17th pint before most folks got up,etc and he lived to he was 99″, but honestly I think that you have to build up immunities in life and locking yourself away in case you get too close to other people is dangerous.
In the late 60’s I worked at a sewage treatment plant and one of our jobs was “French letter picking”; the filter bed mechanisms were always getting blocked up with condoms ( some knotted, some not) and they had to be removed by ( gloved) hand.
At that time (1969) Sewage workers had a average life expectancy of 83 and my foremen Jack who would clean out a blocked pipe with his hands and then wash them and eat his sandwiches lived to well into his 80’s and I went 27 years at work without having to have a day off though illness.
There’s a black country saying ” Yo gotta ate a Peck o dirt afore yoam a dyin”:
You cannot live in a sterile bubble (ask Michael Jackson and Howard Hughes) and the sooner the government, their “advisers” and the general collaborators realise this then there might be a chance to return to something like normal lives.

161907 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #1336 of 2057 🔗

when i was a kid. my grandads house had an outside loo, a lean to bathroom and a lean to kitchen with dark corners where god knows what lived.. And they kept chickens. I must have been exposed to everything there and if not there, outside . He was 95 when he went .

161909 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Fingerache Philip., 7, #1337 of 2057 🔗

I don’t want to trot out the old cliches …”

But there’s a difference between ‘old cliches’ and the hard scientific truth that avoiding infection is no immunity.

161920 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to RickH, 3, #1338 of 2057 🔗


161926 ▶▶▶▶ muzzle, replying to Fingerache Philip., 12, #1339 of 2057 🔗

I’m worried about how much anti-bac is being spunked on people’s hands at every opportunity. We need a health amount of exposure to bacteria. We’re not designed to live in a sterile bubble.

161967 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to muzzle, 6, #1340 of 2057 🔗

The human race and bacteria are old (necessary friends)

162041 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Fingerache Philip., 7, #1341 of 2057 🔗

Especially when you consider the sheer amount of bacteria that we have in our bodies, primarily the gut without which we wouldn’t survive very long. Then there’s the mitochondria that are present in every cell with a nucleus, which is though to be a symbiotic bacterial/cell relationship.

162137 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to p02099003, 1, #1342 of 2057 🔗

No Brainer!!!

162029 ▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to muzzle, 4, #1343 of 2057 🔗

I’ve never used hand sanitiser since the start of this clown show, if they become insistent I ask for soap and water.

Here’s why….


162116 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to muzzle, 4, #1344 of 2057 🔗

me too.. a result of so much anti bacterial being used on top of the existing overuse and misuse of antibiotics in humans and livestock mean that we can expect resistant superbugs soon.
Back to the good old days when a scratch could kill you

161949 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to RickH, 6, #1345 of 2057 🔗

Sometimes the old cliches are cliches for a reason (like stereotypes), i.e. they had a big dollop of truth to them.

161913 ▶▶ Stephanos, replying to Fingerache Philip., 6, #1346 of 2057 🔗

I used to work (in the office) at a Sewage Treatment Works (STW) some years ago (I went there about 2 – 3 times a week) and I ventured the opinion that workers at an STW were liable to frequent sickness. Not so, said one of the managers. Such people are the healthiest in the country because they pick up microscopic doses of all sorts of things, often in combination. Then the immune system barks into life and produces antibodies and all sort of things. Result? They are never, or vary rarely, ill. So I think I have probably picked up an immunity to this ‘virus’. And I do wonder whether I have passed this on to my adult students, to whom I now teach New Testament Greek. Hence my name, in case you were wondering.

162141 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Stephanos, 2, #1347 of 2057 🔗

Thank you for your encouraging reply.

162538 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Stephanos, #1348 of 2057 🔗

Any primary school teacher will tell you that the smelliest kids are never off sick.

162063 ▶▶ kf99, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1349 of 2057 🔗

Excellent reference to Jackson and Hughes.

162143 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to kf99, #1350 of 2057 🔗


162229 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1351 of 2057 🔗

Folk observation:
Farmers kids tend to be the healthiest.
Bit like China, all that interaction with livestock/ pigs / ducks.
How do new flu strains start again.

162540 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nessimmersion, #1352 of 2057 🔗

In US labs?

162168 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to kf99, 2, #1353 of 2057 🔗

And we all knew kids who were as”black as the road”, playing in the gutter, had a “cat lick” with a flannel occasionally but generally they were perfectly healthy.
I remember James Herriot (Alf Wright) in his vet books describing a knacker’s yard with the owner eating his “snap” and his kids playing amongst rancid offal and millions of maggots and guess what?: all of them perfectly healthy.

162583 ▶▶▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to Fingerache Philip., #1354 of 2057 🔗

Long ago when my Mum was a sickly child, their doctor told her mother “Let your child play in the gutter if you don’t want to lose her.”

161881 TJN, replying to TJN, 30, #1355 of 2057 🔗

That famous mathematician Robert Peston tweeted this morning:

The influential Imperial React swab study contains encouraging news – that Covid’s spread may now be only mildly exponential . [My emphasis]

I know I did mathematics only to degree-level engineering, so I can’t claim to be a mathematician, but I’m struggling to recall what a ‘mild exponential’ is …

Loads of good posts on here, but I’m so pissed off with this right now I’d better go and do something else to take my mind off it.

‘Fuck Johnson, Hancock, Fergusson, Whitty, the WHO, the whole damned lot of them.’

161886 ▶▶ RickH, replying to TJN, 13, #1356 of 2057 🔗

Nicely spotted.

What a stupid, ignorant twat.

162260 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to RickH, 1, #1357 of 2057 🔗

Actually Mrs TJN (a maths graduate …) spotted it and read it out to me, as she knew it would wind me up … which it did.

Another thing which winds me up is when I see the term ‘order of magnitude’ used for ‘multiple’. To me, if something increases by an order of magnitude it means a multiple of 10, not 2.

161928 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to TJN, 3, #1358 of 2057 🔗

TJN, a mild exponential is less of an exponential than a severe exponential…exponentially speaking…!


161947 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to TJN, 6, #1359 of 2057 🔗

Exponential. Another word being bandied about as if they understand it by people who would struggle to tie their shoe laces in the morning.

161955 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Achilles, 4, #1360 of 2057 🔗


162012 ▶▶ matt, replying to TJN, 4, #1361 of 2057 🔗

Exponential (adj) – a lot. See also: scary

162049 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to TJN, 2, #1362 of 2057 🔗

That’s a somewhat unique understanding of ‘exponential’.

162098 ▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to TJN, #1363 of 2057 🔗

There used to be exponents of the art of drinking mild in my local.

162220 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to TheOriginalBlackPudding, #1364 of 2057 🔗

Used to like a pint of light in the afternoon, but I never took to mild, that was when afternoon toping was expected!

162268 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Nessimmersion, #1365 of 2057 🔗

I seem to remember serving a ‘black and tan’ when I was young working in a bar – mild and larger I think. Never liked the sound of it myself. I was always a Special Brew guy.

162317 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to TJN, #1366 of 2057 🔗

There was a variation using Export/80′ and a bottle of stout. Even that was a bit too sweet for me.
I do remember the old guys having a 1/4 gill of rum and a 1/3rd pint bottle of “wee heavy” around 10% abv I think.
Haven’t seen it for decades now.

162391 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Nessimmersion, 2, #1367 of 2057 🔗

Sounds pretty good to me – might try it some time. Pouring a single malt now. Keeps viruses away,

162531 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to TJN, #1368 of 2057 🔗

I thought it involved Guinness and bitter.

161914 RyanM, 20, #1369 of 2057 🔗

Remember in 1939 when Winston Churchill told all of your grandfathers to close down all of their shops, forget about enlisting in the (very dangerous) army, and go hide under their beds until the Americans showed up to save them?

Such bravery.

161916 Jay Berger, 4, #1370 of 2057 🔗

This is an excellent interview with a well known German sceptic, a toxicology professor, it would be well worth translating or adding English subtitles.
Anyone who listens to it will understand the problems around the vaccines in development much better, probably run away from them, and understand a few other things/current criminal neglects and manipulations much better too.

161927 2 pence, replying to 2 pence, 9, #1371 of 2057 🔗

Proof that the pandemic was planned with a purpose

‘The Corona panic is a play. It’s a scam. A swindle. It’s high time we understood that we’re in the midst of a global crime.


162111 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to 2 pence, 1, #1372 of 2057 🔗

What can we actually DO about it though?

161929 mrjoeaverage, 8, #1373 of 2057 🔗

Ok, I know I am a maths geek, but I been crunching some of the Government figures on their “staging” website.

I have taken the period from 19/09/2020 to 29/09/2020 as the period I am basing my calculations on, as that is the latest date the admissions figure goes up to.

We have to carry out additional calculations to work out the “positive” figures, as the Government only publishes the doom.

So here goes, and bear with me! Note, these are the figures for England:

On 19th September, there were 1048 people in hospital. On 29th September, there were 1,881 people in hospital. The number of admissions between these dates is 2,760. However, to bring us back to the balance on 29th September, we can therefore deduce that there have been 1,927 discharges in this same period. So, we have 833 excess admissions over discharges, or 83.3 per day over the 10 day period.

Now, let’s take the average number of deaths in that same period. This comes out at 31.5 per day average.

So of the 83.3 per day excess, we’ll say 31.5 of those will die, leaving 51.8 per day likely to be discharged. Now we need to take that 51.8 and multiply it by 10 to get our 10 day figure, i.e 518.

I said earlier that there were 1,927 discharges, and based on the above then, we can deduce that 518 of those in hospital will be discharged, making a total of 2,445 discharges.

Therefore, out of the 2,760 admissions in this 10 day period, we anticipate 2,445 will be, or have been, discharged.

This means that 89% of admissions are likely to be discharged.

But then again, does the remaining 11% seem far too low to include those who have been hospitalised for reasons other than Covid, and simply had a positive test?


161943 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 14, #1374 of 2057 🔗


”The potential disruption to health and social services due to false positives could be

A friend, whose daughter and son in law are both doctors are now quarantining for the third time since the beginning of March as their daughter’s school has just been closed due to someone testing positive.

Has no-one in SAGE or the government thought about the consequences of downloading the app?

161946 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Margaret, 7, #1375 of 2057 🔗

Simple solution – asymptomatic positive gets automatic retest. If negative, the positive test no longer stands

161957 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Yawnyaman, 17, #1376 of 2057 🔗

Even simpler solution : Avoid testing like the (real) plague.

161990 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to RickH, 4, #1377 of 2057 🔗

What he said. Twice.

161991 ▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to RickH, 1, #1378 of 2057 🔗

Interestingly, my friend and her husband have not downloaded the app.

162488 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Yawnyaman, #1379 of 2057 🔗

Not enough money in it!

161958 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Margaret, 4, #1380 of 2057 🔗

Has no-one in SAGE or the government thought about the consequences of downloading the app?”. Maybe, maybe not. If they didn’t think about it beforehand, someone has probably pointed it out. But they DON’T GIVE A FUCK. They don’t care about the consequences of anything they do beyond how it plays in relation to “beating the virus”.

161961 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 1, #1381 of 2057 🔗

Cost/benefit with cost set at zero no matter what it is.

161965 ▶▶ Draper233, replying to Margaret, 6, #1382 of 2057 🔗

Has no-one in SAGE or the government thought about the consequences of downloading the app?

I think it would be more fitting to rephrase the question “ Has no-one in SAGE or the government thought about the consequences of anything ?”

I’m still waiting for the Chuckle Brothers’ projections on lockdown consequences – the worse case scenario of course, as that’s how they like to present their findings.

162484 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Draper233, #1383 of 2057 🔗

I think they’re only interested in the projected income figures.

161998 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Margaret, 7, #1384 of 2057 🔗

No one in SAGE or the government will be expected to download the app; that’s why..

162082 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Margaret, #1385 of 2057 🔗

Give it a week or two- the Govt should reveal the results of how many with the app test positive.

162327 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Margaret, 1, #1386 of 2057 🔗

Track and Trace is about causing maximal disruption and damage at maximal financial cost.
They are the two most important design features.
What sections of the community and what public services do they want to protect?
Well, the Police. No app for them.

Your example is how it is designed to work.

161944 PaulWW, replying to PaulWW, 1, #1387 of 2057 🔗

Why do Toby and others refer to the death rate as being 0.06%. I make it 0.0006%. I.e. 6k deaths in Sweden divided by 10m x 100. What am I doing wrong?

161951 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to PaulWW, 2, #1388 of 2057 🔗

Do you need to include some brackets?

(6000 / 10000000) * 100.0 = 0.06

161960 ▶▶▶ PaulWW, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #1389 of 2057 🔗

Solved, thank you!

162292 ▶▶▶ BJJ, replying to Barney McGrew, #1390 of 2057 🔗

Tricky it is 0.06% not 6% i.e. nought point nought 6%. people would say 0.06 by 67000000 is over 4 million, but the correct no. is 40.000

161956 ▶▶ Mark, replying to PaulWW, 2, #1391 of 2057 🔗

Normally they are referring to the ifr, infection fatality rate, which is the percentage of those infected who die. Clearly, that depends a lot on how you count who has been infected as well as on how you count the deaths, but that’s the standard measure, along with cfr, or case fatality rate – the number of deaths as a percentage of treated cases.

What you are calculating is the population mortality, which obviously takes into account how widespread the disease has been in the population.

161978 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Mark, 2, #1392 of 2057 🔗

Yes, the population mortality rate seems to be a neglected statistic. Do I really want to know the IFR and CFR? Well, I do if I have been infected or have symptoms, obviously. But back in February I would have been more interested in my overall chances of coming out of this alive. The problem then was that the ‘scientists’ were fairly determined that almost all the population were going to become infected (sooo novel, soooo infectious, woooo), so the population mortality rate was almost the same as the IFR. But we now know that 80% of people have some resistance to the virus (wherever that comes from). The IFR is based on there being some evidence of ‘infection’ so those 80% don’t even get into the pool. So really, the odds aren’t bad at all.

161981 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #1393 of 2057 🔗

Exactly. In the end, it’s population mortality that really matters, but you can’t know that until you find out how any people are going to get it.

162371 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to PaulWW, #1394 of 2057 🔗

You are assuming the entire population have been exposed. It’s probably only 90%!
And you have a superfluous nought to the right of the decimal point.
Or is it two?

161945 Lms23, replying to Lms23, 17, #1395 of 2057 🔗


Tobias Ellwood MP. Reservist in 77th Brigade (which is involved in psyops).

With a vaccine potentially 6 months away -let’s learn the lessons from PPE/testing & think ahead.

This is the largest logistical challenge in a generation. Let’s begin developing the detailed blueprint so we get this right.”

A couple of replies:
“Translation – Vaccination to be all but compulsory if you want to live a normal life. ”

“How is it voluntary if you are proposing that only the vaccinated will be released from restrictions and will need certificates to travel. This is coercion.”

“How will it be Voluntary IF the only way someone can travel overseas ( be it for personal, pleasure or business reasons ) One Will Require a Vaccination Certificate ? If this is Government / Countries Policy Globally, one will have No Choice But To Be Vaccinated against CV”

161964 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Lms23, 10, #1396 of 2057 🔗

This has been planned for years, ever since Blair tried to force ID cards on us. They’ve been told in Australia that they will need it for education, for child care (child care providers will only take vaccinated children) and travel etc.

161969 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Dan Clarke, 10, #1397 of 2057 🔗

Today’s T&T is tomorrow’s VaxID.

161989 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to DRW, 7, #1398 of 2057 🔗

….which all the masked sheep have not realised..

162005 ▶▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Carrie, 7, #1399 of 2057 🔗

Said from the start that the muzzled will be our downfall, the outward compliance to government control

162008 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Dan Clarke, 7, #1400 of 2057 🔗

Totally. I have no sympathy for anyone who has complied who suffers because of the fallout from this. None.

162477 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Dan Clarke, #1401 of 2057 🔗

I believe that in Australia you can already not get any state benefits if you are not vaccinated (and if you do not get your kids vaccinated..)

161984 ▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to Lms23, 5, #1402 of 2057 🔗

To be honest I don’t actually have a problem with the idea of a vaccination certificate for overseas travel. You still need such a document to demonstrate that you have had your yellow fever vaccination if you travel to countries that require such evidence. Travel overseas is for the most part a voluntary activity.

What I have a problem that any covid vaccine will not have been properly tested and the regulations appear to have been amended to absolve the manufacturers from any liability but that’s it.

161992 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to The Filthy Engineer, 13, #1403 of 2057 🔗

Two very good reasons to object to it here:

First, as you say, there is good reason to expect it t have been inadequately tested and rushed into use.

Second, it legitimises a fatuous overstatement of any possible risk this particular virus could pose.

161997 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to The Filthy Engineer, 10, #1404 of 2057 🔗

But Covid is a minor illness – why should people have to prove they have been vaccinated against it in order to travel? What if you are immune to Covid – why should you have to be vaccinated?

You also show zero sympathy for people with family in other countries when you declare that travel is voluntary..

162006 ▶▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to Carrie, 4, #1405 of 2057 🔗

Two points, both very well made. On your first point I should have added that I believe that it is highly unlikely that an effective vaccine for a coronavirus will be found. Especially because as far as I know we have only ever successfully defeated one virus through vaccination and that is Smallpox and that took something like 300 years.

162075 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to The Filthy Engineer, 4, #1406 of 2057 🔗

Giesecke, who is something of an expert in the field, says no country should be basing its policies on the imminent arrival of a vaccine, and what’s more, that any vaccine that is developed in the near future is unlikely to work on the groups that are most vulnerable to CV19..

162155 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Carrie, 2, #1407 of 2057 🔗

The problem is that dodgy covid vaccines have become too big to fail, even when phase 3 trials have gone badly.

162014 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Carrie, #1408 of 2057 🔗

Great post. Exactly

162032 ▶▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to Carrie, #1409 of 2057 🔗

Countries can let visitors in using whatever crazy criteria they want in my opinion. If Greece (for example) insists that everyone dye their hair pink before visiting that’s up to them. Nobody is forcing you to go there.

162055 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Recusant, 4, #1410 of 2057 🔗

But that is not what they are saying? They are saying you cannot travel…ie LEAVE the country until you get vaccinated. You will get people fleeing Australia and claiming asylum in sensible countries, like ….Belarus.

The world’s gone topsy turvey.

162010 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to The Filthy Engineer, 3, #1411 of 2057 🔗

To be honest I don’t actually have a problem with the idea of a vaccination certificate for overseas travel.

Yellow fever is only required for a handful of countries. Where do you draw the line?

162132 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to The Filthy Engineer, 7, #1412 of 2057 🔗

The problem is the whole world has been totally transformed in the most mendacious and evil way to FORCE everybody to have this vaccine. This is abuse of humanity on a monumental scale.

All for selling a vaccine. All for cash, power and control.

162150 ▶▶ Will, replying to Lms23, 4, #1413 of 2057 🔗

Which will be ripped to shreds in the courts because it contravenes international law.

162190 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Will, #1414 of 2057 🔗

Til they change it?

162204 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Lms23, 4, #1415 of 2057 🔗

US version

162392 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Lms23, 1, #1416 of 2057 🔗

I have been calling it de facto mandatory for at least 6 months.
There is the hope that the first candidate used will show up undeniable harm, because it may save many lives and some semblance of a future.

It’s worth revisiting the whole Swine Flu / Pandemrix saga.
And in particular how AZN (yes them again) denied responsibility for as long as possible.

161952 RickH, 9, #1417 of 2057 🔗

Have a look at this Guardian item :


… if you want to play ‘spot the fictions’.

Obviously a plant, it is so blatant in its hysteria.

‘MI6’s House Journal’ indeed. It would be laughable if the outcome wasn’t so serious.

Try this one for starters :

Early October is eerily reminiscent of mid-March”

Now go and look at the indicators for the two periods.

Then play ‘Spot the difference’ (between Reality and the rest of the article)

161971 Richard O, replying to Richard O, 8, #1418 of 2057 🔗


(d) to remove anything (including underwear) that the relevant person is wearing, if —

(i) the removal of the thing is reasonably necessary to enable a medical examination or medical treatment to be carried out or, as the case requires, to enable the person to be vaccinated;

Life imitating pornography.

161986 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Richard O, 5, #1419 of 2057 🔗

Oh my god!

161993 ▶▶ Draper233, replying to Richard O, 20, #1420 of 2057 🔗

To paraphrase Clive James, ” the problem with Australians is not those that descended from criminals, but those that descended from prison officers”

162024 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Draper233, 1, #1421 of 2057 🔗

That’s a priceless insight. Thanks for that 🙂

161999 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Richard O, 3, #1422 of 2057 🔗

Shocking. Interesting site, thanks

162038 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Richard O, #1423 of 2057 🔗

Is it actually true?

162057 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Richard O, 4, #1424 of 2057 🔗

Can we all chip in and buy an island please? Reckon we’d get some Aussies on board.

162131 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Richard O, #1425 of 2057 🔗

at least it will then allow the aussies to tell the authorities which part of their anatomy they can kiss.

162233 ▶▶ annie, replying to Richard O, #1426 of 2057 🔗

Just where does the vaccine go???

161972 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 12, #1427 of 2057 🔗

Went to a newly opened cafe near me today, stood near it looking at the view and looking at the customers. Well all 4 of them, 2 on each table, many people walking up, reading the notice about waiting, masked only, etc and then walk away, only the muzzled were permitted to enter. The business probably won’t last as it used to always be busy, really nice buzz, another one will bite the dust.

161974 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #1428 of 2057 🔗

Sorry newly opened after renovation.

161995 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Dan Clarke, 7, #1429 of 2057 🔗

Especially when they get sued for Disability Discrimination.

162198 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Dan Clarke, 5, #1430 of 2057 🔗

We need to reinforce, “get woke go broke”.
Treat people like Lepers — don’t look surprised when they take their hard earned elsewhere.
Only when enough businesses start squealing will the pols possible pay attention.

161973 Leemc23, replying to Leemc23, 1, #1431 of 2057 🔗

Royal Albert hall reopening for the Christmas season. Little steps.

161987 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Leemc23, 2, #1432 of 2057 🔗

So no London lockdown then?

162026 ▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to Carrie, 12, #1433 of 2057 🔗

Let’s see. The government usually wait until companies have made plans and spent lots of money before they cancel everything and shit all over them.

162065 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Recusant, 2, #1434 of 2057 🔗

Sadly true..

162456 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #1435 of 2057 🔗

Spawn of Satan will be disappointed!

162035 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Leemc23, 9, #1436 of 2057 🔗

Anything short of reopening exactly as it was before doesn’t count in my book. We’ll not be participating in any voluntary activity until all restrictions are lifted.

162086 ▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Julian, 2, #1437 of 2057 🔗

Exactly, I am desperate to go back to performances but I absolutely refuse until it is completely normal.

162554 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Leemc23, #1438 of 2057 🔗

Yeah, got the email as well. Still boycotting though.

162004 Dale, replying to Dale, 2, #1439 of 2057 🔗

Is it possible that Boris’ “brush with death from Covid” was likelier a stiff bout of pneumonia ?

162056 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Dale, -7, #1440 of 2057 🔗


He had Covid-19, and was hit hard by it.

162135 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Lucan Grey, 9, #1441 of 2057 🔗

not hard enough

162303 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Lucan Grey, 2, #1442 of 2057 🔗

Do you have any evidence to support that assertion?

162454 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Dale, #1443 of 2057 🔗

Not a stiff bout of anything!

He was hospitalised as a precaution and discharged suspiciously quickly for someone who’d been at death’s door.

162018 Dale, replying to Dale, 2, #1444 of 2057 🔗

Of the 84% who signal they will comply, with Covid restrictions, do you suppose a goodly portion are literally afraid that their phones are tapped, their conversations recorded ?

162027 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Dale, 6, #1445 of 2057 🔗

The majority of that 84% will break the rules when it suits them and expect everyone else to be punished if they break the rules. It’s how people work. By now I would bet most people have broken some rule or another so even suggestion compliance is daft.

162050 ▶▶▶ court, replying to Leemc23, 1, #1446 of 2057 🔗

Exactly. Every person I know personally who follow the ‘rules’ have all told me an anecdote of the rules they’ve bent when it suited them. At least I’m honest with myself.

162052 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Dale, 2, #1447 of 2057 🔗

What they say and what they do are two different things.

We have a society that has become hooked on value signalling. The entire Formula 1 paddock wears masks when there is absolutely no need for anybody there to do so as you need a negative test to get inside. It’s entirely hygiene theatre for the paying public.

Until Rationality is elevated back to its rightful place at the front of the pack and hysteria related to those who are to be shunned we’re heading back to the middle ages.

Prime your ducking stools

162074 ▶▶▶ David, replying to Lucan Grey, 3, #1448 of 2057 🔗

I have wondered if F1 was only allowed to resume if it made a show of extreme mask zealotry. It seems to be the worst of all the televised sports.

162084 ▶▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to David, 1, #1449 of 2057 🔗

It’s because hypocrite Hamilton is there as king of the Woke brigade doing everything he can to virtue signal how much he cares for other people.

162104 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Youth_Unheard, 1, #1450 of 2057 🔗

And being a protected minority himself, he cannot be criticised..

162142 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Youth_Unheard, 2, #1451 of 2057 🔗

so woke he maintains that his mother’s life doesn’t matter .

162688 ▶▶▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Youth_Unheard, #1452 of 2057 🔗

Totally agree about Hamilton. Hot off the heels parading around on his private million £ speedboat moaning about how people are killing the oceans, then frolicking with that lovely honest gent Philip Green, now he’s posted another update – attacking the systemic problems with horrible corrupt society…. Very nice too from one of his 4? 5? luxury properties, with a reported 15+ gas guzzling sports cars in his private garage…

162021 Ross Hendry, replying to Ross Hendry, 13, #1453 of 2057 🔗

In the long litany of government cock-ups over the years this must surely rank as No. 1.

What were they smoking in No. 10 when they imposed lockdown after it was officially declared that Covid-19 was not, repeat not, a high risk disease? Are we supposed to forget that?

There is a best-seller to be written here eventually but I doubt it will see the light of day for some time: too many powerful vested interests involved.

And they’re all still smoking in No. 10. The only question is who is their dealer?

162031 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Ross Hendry, 9, #1454 of 2057 🔗

I can’t think of much that compares to it. In terms of the impact on the country, I can’t think of anything. It’s orders of magnitude worse than anything else. The Iraq war caused a lot of suffering.

It’s a blunder of similar proportions to Hitler invading Russia or Japan starting a war with the US.

Globally outside of world wars it has to be most stupid thing ever done by miles. It is hard to imagine it will be equalled.

162048 ▶▶ Draper233, replying to Ross Hendry, 4, #1455 of 2057 🔗

Yep, the worse policy decisions in my lifetime, even more so than the Iraq War.

On a positive note, thank fuck these goons weren’t in charge during a real emergency.

162053 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Draper233, 2, #1456 of 2057 🔗

This parliament is not over… don’t count your blessings just yet.

162066 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Draper233, 4, #1457 of 2057 🔗

This is the worst decision of any British government since the declaration of war against Germany in 1914

162071 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 3, #1458 of 2057 🔗

Good point – I had forgotten that. Can you think of any decisions before that come close?

162080 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Julian, 1, #1459 of 2057 🔗

Ethelred the Unready trying to buy the Danes off with gold?

162087 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Julian, 1, #1460 of 2057 🔗

All the major mistakes since then had some rationale behind them,and there has been many but this is national suicide

162136 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, #1461 of 2057 🔗

Not in terms of waging war on this country and its people.

Thatcher waged internal war on sections of society and regions – but not on the whole populace.

In other disasters, the cost has been borne by other countries – as Egypt did in the Suez crisis, as in Iraq and Iran at different times; Palestine after WWI, and parts of Africa at various times.

162185 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to RickH, #1462 of 2057 🔗

Nah, thatch was trying to make UK society more cohesive by removing parasitical growths.

162252 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Julian, #1463 of 2057 🔗

The 1812 war against the USA, battle of New Orleans.

162070 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Draper233, 3, #1464 of 2057 🔗

They’re creating a real emergency – social and economic.

162129 ▶▶▶▶ Draper233, replying to Cheezilla, #1465 of 2057 🔗

True, I may need to rephrase that comment

162092 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Ross Hendry, 2, #1466 of 2057 🔗

There is a best-seller to be written here eventually but I doubt it will see the light of day for some time: too many powerful vested interests involved.

I think it will have to be memorised by someone, ready to be written down again once the conflagration is over and society starts to re-build…


162154 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Ross Hendry, 5, #1467 of 2057 🔗

We’ve been warming up to it for decades. But none of the cock ups before have been anywhere in the league of this one, not even close. This one is a league of its own. The proposed Green New Deal will give it a run for its money if its allowed to continue

In no particular order, the warm up events/things included:

  1. Salmonella egg scare (Edwina Curry’s 15 mins of fame, before it came out that she was John Major’s bit on the side)
  2. BSE / mad cow disease (McDonalds had to stop selling burgers)
  3. Foot and mouth (Ferguson dodgy modelling)
  4. The Millenium bug (made management consultants a lot of money)
  5. The world will end in X years if don’t try and change the weather (every global warming prediction has been missed)
  6. Voting to leave the EU would cause massive job losses just by voting to leave
  7. Swine flu (a friend of mine died from this, an unlucky outlier like the 300 off under 60 with this KungFlu)
  8. The rise of health and safety culture
  9. Passive smoking scare
  10. HIV / Aids
  11. Speed kills campaigns

Christopher Booker wrote an excellent book on some of the above and others.

Scared to Death: From BSE to Global Warming: Why Scares are Costing Us the Earth


I read Frank Furedi’s book below in May to try and understand how we had lost the ability to consider the probability of a risk causing harm as well as the possibility. Another good (albeit depressing read);

How Fear Works: Culture of Fear in the Twenty-First


162177 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Ross Hendry, 1, #1468 of 2057 🔗

Well it is the Year of Hindsight

162232 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to mhcp, #1469 of 2057 🔗

Meaning that our Fascist bastard tyrants see out of their backsides?

162043 john, replying to john, 5, #1470 of 2057 🔗


take care out there – it looks like we are all going to die again…(unless we go home at 10PM)….

162051 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to john, 2, #1471 of 2057 🔗

How much of the fury is because they have been forced to shut the House of Commons pub by 10 pm as well?

162061 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to john, 1, #1472 of 2057 🔗

So he didn’t let Parliament vote then? So his promise lasted less than 24 hours…

162067 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Carrie, 2, #1473 of 2057 🔗

It’s not a new rule. It predates yesterday’s vote. No less silly for that.

162094 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to john, 3, #1474 of 2057 🔗

The Health Secretary was repeatedly challenged by Tories on the swingeing restrictions as he announced new lockdown measures in the North West and Middlesbrough.

But he sidestepped demands for the scientific basis behind the curb, and dismissed concerns that forcing venues to shut is merely fuelling revelry on the streets and house parties.
Denying he was taking an axe to civil liberties , Mr Hancock ……

The tide seems to be turning.

Very powerful Full Moon tonight! Don’t lose hope.

162047 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 12, #1475 of 2057 🔗

Finally some courageous leadership in the U.K. as the Mayor of Middlesbrough rejects government orders of a local lockdown


162058 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #1476 of 2057 🔗

How much power does he have to refuse?

He does say they have their own local health information to show it is not warranted..

I saw a map showing how much of the UK is under local lockdowns or under threat of them – will be everywhere soon, at the current rate of progress..

162064 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 9, #1477 of 2057 🔗

It’s just nice to hear someone standing up to them. Hopefully it will make his locals start to question what’s going on.

162101 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #1478 of 2057 🔗

Already seen some local businesses thanking him!

And he seems to have done his research re the current local Covid facts and figures.

162314 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #1479 of 2057 🔗

That’s good because his local press have handpicked some rabid bedwetters for opinions.

162489 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Carrie, #1480 of 2057 🔗

I give it until this time next Monday for him to do an about-face and issue a grovelling apology.

162059 Cheezilla, 16, #1481 of 2057 🔗

Andy Preston:

Important Update About Government Announcement

The government has made an announcement that it plans to introduce strict measures for Middlesbrough in the face of rising Covid infections in our town.
I don’t accept this is the right decision and talks are ongoing.
I knew the government wanted to bring in severe restrictions like these – similar to those introduced in Tyne & Wear – which I knew would be damaging to Middlesbrough jobs, livelihoods, businesses and mental health.
That cannot be right.
I believe the government can limit the spread of the virus by limiting social mixing – but while also protecting jobs, livelihoods and mental health.
It’s my belief that the government’s announcement is based on factual inaccuracies and a frightening lack of communication.
As it stands, I don’t accept the measures and – along with my council colleagues – will be holding further urgent talks with the government.
I hope the government will listen to us and accept our local knowledge, expertise and ability to get things done in a way that stops the Covid spread while preserving jobs and protecting the mental health of Middlesbrough residents.
I understand people will have lots of questions and I’m not realistically able to answer them all on here.
Further updates as soon as I have them. As it stands, nothing changes.

162060 AidanR, replying to AidanR, 9, #1482 of 2057 🔗

As a first line of defence against the CovidApp nonsense, I’ve just picked up a second hand Nokia for £25.. please do explain how to install your marvellous app on my phone, good sir.

162108 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to AidanR, 2, #1483 of 2057 🔗

I believe there is a dummy app out there somewhere.

162113 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #1484 of 2057 🔗
162127 ▶▶▶▶ Matt The Cat, replying to Mabel Cow, #1485 of 2057 🔗

Work of genius – share this!!

162230 ▶▶ mjr, replying to AidanR, 1, #1486 of 2057 🔗

ive still got an old phone in a drawer .. Even if it doesnt work will be good to carry it around

162085 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 9, #1487 of 2057 🔗

Was just thinking that it isn’t a surprise that most of the politicians voted from extension of the Coronavirus Act and even its inception. The large majority of politicians voted for the vacuous Climate Change Act. Another theoretical extrapolation into the real world with no verification or accountability.

Why are politicians so enthralled with models and devoid of realism?

162097 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to mhcp, 3, #1488 of 2057 🔗

The two agendas are of course linked. Also the UN migration pact that May signed us up to.

162161 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Carrie, -1, #1489 of 2057 🔗

Don’t confuse the key issue.

162102 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 27, #1490 of 2057 🔗

Some great news!

The mayor of Middlesbrough —independent Peter Preston, has just declared that he will defy new government lock down rules:-


The government, their advisors and other assorted gang members are on the run. Preston is courageous and at his wits end and his patience has been exhausted. Let’s hope this will help to open the flood gates.

Vernon Coleman is convinced that most of them will be in jail when the dust settles. I’ve done my best to resist Vernon’s conspiracy theories but as time goes on my belief in government incompetence, as an explanation for all this, is waning by the day.
I have to confess that his forecast for imprisonment of all the major players is something I would love to see come to fruition.

Whether or not you give credence to Vernon Coleman’s theories his latest video is definitely worth a watch.—- and I say this as someone who desperately wants to believe in the ‘cock up’ theory for all this.

162117 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 2, #1492 of 2057 🔗

I beg his pardon—his name is Andy Preston.

162125 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Harry hopkins, 4, #1493 of 2057 🔗

Salute that man.

162193 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #1494 of 2057 🔗

And let’s hope he’s opened the way for more to follow.

162248 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1495 of 2057 🔗

Interestingly he’s an Independent.

162415 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1496 of 2057 🔗

He was backed up in his fury at the announcement by Shane Moore, the leader of Hartlepool council, who told Sky News that the government had promised him ministers wouldn’t announce measures without the approval of his council, before doing just that. He complained that there had been no information on the ‘exit strategy’ from these restrictions.

162130 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Harry hopkins, 4, #1497 of 2057 🔗

At last, some genuine resistance from within the political hierarchy.

162214 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #1498 of 2057 🔗

All in jail is all that keeps me going

162242 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Harry hopkins, #1499 of 2057 🔗

Just read, he wants all muzzled in public spaces even outdoors, no no no

162277 ▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Dan Clarke, #1500 of 2057 🔗

Dan, Can you provide a link?

162417 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Dan Clarke, #1501 of 2057 🔗


162110 Nicholas, replying to Nicholas, 8, #1502 of 2057 🔗

The police attack on a peaceful anti-lockdown protest is a new low-point for our police forces. Personally, I would have no more one minute silences for fallen officers, not to be nasty, but simply because the police can no longer be trusted when it comes to dealing with the public and we should simply not get involved.

162412 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nicholas, #1503 of 2057 🔗

It was to remind everyone that the police are supposed to be on the side of the public.
Hopefully, many of those police who were around before the goon squad was sent in, will remember that.

162626 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Nicholas, 1, #1504 of 2057 🔗

Looking into the eyes of the Territorial Support Group officers I think they would have happily beat the anti-lockdown protestors to death on Saturday. They aren’t particularly nice people and the one minute silence didn’t certainly didn’t make them show any mercy and I am not convinced any of the police there actually appreciated the gesture as they now seem to have a deep inbuilt hatred of freedom protests.

Would be very interested if any one actually knows what the police thought of the gesture?

162120 Basics, replying to Basics, 9, #1505 of 2057 🔗

Simon Dolan adds this piece to the jigsaw via his twitter:

“”From Maria Caulfield MP -Unfortunately I can’t vote against the renewal of the Act as contained in it is all the extra funding for the NHS,schools and businesses that they need to get through this period. Without the extension, their extra funding would stop straight away”

162126 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Basics, 15, #1506 of 2057 🔗

Outright extortion then. We are being governed by a gang of criminal mafia thugs.

162163 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Richard O, 3, #1507 of 2057 🔗

Well, I don’t know, um, it might just be incompetence…

162191 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 1, #1508 of 2057 🔗

You’re so kind 😉

162228 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Basics, 1, #1509 of 2057 🔗

Incompetent criminal mafia thugs.

162485 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Richard O, #1510 of 2057 🔗

Welcome aboard. Better late than never 🙂

162134 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Basics, 9, #1511 of 2057 🔗

As the NHS has effectively closed its doors to so many of the population, it shouldn’t get another penny until it reopens fully.

162309 ▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Lms23, #1512 of 2057 🔗

Showing at 8pm on channel5 this evening GP’s behind closed doors!

162144 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 7, #1513 of 2057 🔗

Well now we know how the blackmail was pulled off.

They’re certsinly throsing their weight about today with newfound vigour and barefaced lies.

162153 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 2, #1514 of 2057 🔗

Can someone let Simon Dolan know please?
He’s seeking to lay down an injunction to stop the new mockdown laws and will probably need this informaton.

162159 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1515 of 2057 🔗

This is FROM Simon Dolan.

162186 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 2, #1516 of 2057 🔗

Doh! I’d just reread the post, much to my embarrassment.
I was about to delete my comment but was too late to get away with it.

162160 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Basics, 12, #1517 of 2057 🔗

A lame excuse – the act enables our country to be destroyed, but I have to vote for it because it also enables some of the consequences of that destruction to be mitigated. Bollocks really.

162175 ▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Julian, 3, #1518 of 2057 🔗

Hear, hear!

162181 ▶▶▶ wayno, replying to Julian, 3, #1519 of 2057 🔗

Cause they clearly couldn’t pass the funding without it, what a load of bollocks. Its bribery.

162219 ▶▶▶ LS99, replying to Julian, 2, #1520 of 2057 🔗

Shows how cheaply some people can be bought.

162256 ▶▶ Willow, replying to Basics, 2, #1521 of 2057 🔗

Not even true. They would have 21 days to put something else in place

162467 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, #1522 of 2057 🔗

That isn’t true though – someone pointed out she was lying almost immediately – look at Simon’s Twitter thread..

162604 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, #1523 of 2057 🔗

Post it here so we can see it helps all.

162615 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, #1524 of 2057 🔗

So there are 190 replies to trawl through to try and find what might not be true.

Is this what you refer to? https://twitter.com/BellRibeiroAddy/status/1311003774941622276?s=20

Meaning as above here caulfields excuse is true yet here excuse is false.

I wouldn’t bother usually but being a little accurate surrounding such dealings in our parlaiment is important.

162122 Steeve, replying to Steeve, #1525 of 2057 🔗


ENGLAND & WALES ALL CASE MORTALITY AS OF THE END OF August 34,064 above 5yr Average. September seems to be levelling out as average. So by the end of September 34064. Lets say we have a further 6000 excess deaths Oct – Dec.
Total excess deaths for the year would be 40000
Lets divide that figure by 365 (days of the year)
110 excess deaths per day.
Take the population of England and Wales as 56000000
Divide that by the 110 excess deaths
This figure come to about 510000
Therefore on average there will be one extra funeral per day per 510000 (half a million approx.) of the population

Have I messed up or not with the maths?

162157 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Steeve, 4, #1526 of 2057 🔗

It’s not the computational maths that’s the problem. It’s the arbitrary baselines.

The term ‘excess mortality’ should be binned. It means nothing – beyond ‘mortality beyond an arbitrary level’.

A ‘5 year average’ currently means a figure based on a period of historically low mortality.

Sorry to be picky – but the misconceptions built around these terms are egregious in perpetuating false concepts of ‘normality’ that are used to provide exaggerated images.

162237 ▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to RickH, #1527 of 2057 🔗

Many thanks for the reply – thought provoking as always but surely a million excess deaths would mean something?

162413 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Steeve, 1, #1528 of 2057 🔗

Oddly many people think that statistics determine the outcome whereas it is actually the outcome that creates the statistic.

For example a 5 year average is determined by events that have happened. It has no bearing on what will or may happen in future. However future events can and will change the average.

162455 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to Nobody2020, #1529 of 2057 🔗

Thanks! Taking a figure of 40,000 excess deaths this year as a prediction.
Then one would look at all the effects of lockdown on people living in private homes.
All the effects of lockdown on care settings
All the effect of lockdown ie fear and slow reporting of medical problems
One would note that many deaths were recorded as Covid 19 without a test(I know) etc
So that 40,000 could be portrayed as Covid deaths but so many variable would be involved in the increased mortality rates.

162240 ▶▶ Will, replying to Steeve, 1, #1530 of 2057 🔗

As you have access to the data, take it back to September 2019 and see how the figures extrapolate. My guess is that from autumn to autumn there haven’t been any excess deaths at all.

162264 ▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to Will, #1531 of 2057 🔗

I will do that one as homework sometime! Only have some of the data!

162123 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 10, #1532 of 2057 🔗

No action that the Govt has taken has made any significant difference to an epidemic which simply ran its course. If all the “actions” prevented the spread of Covid you would have expected flu deaths to go down (flu is transmitted in exactly the same way).

What happened? Nothing

162149 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Sarigan, 3, #1533 of 2057 🔗

Brilliant tweet

162200 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1534 of 2057 🔗

They’ve already been combating this narrative saying that flu doesn’t spread in the same way.

162211 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 3, #1535 of 2057 🔗

Which is ironic considering the models used are influenza models

162128 Lms23, 4, #1536 of 2057 🔗

Just a quick reminder how all this was predicted as far back as early April:

Dave Cullen: Connecting the Dots Part 1. (16/4/2020)

Deutsche Bank predicts coronavirus ‘immunity passports’ 3rd April 2020