2020-10-07

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/10/07/latest-news-156/
Published2020-10-07T01:21:45
Last updated2020-10-07T01:21:46
Scraped2020-12-20T20:18:07
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171444 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #1 of 2225 🔗

Huzzah!

171466 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Barney McGrew, 60, #2 of 2225 🔗

When killing people is Government policy – Email this to you MP – it might seem poinless but it’s better than nothing.
By
Peter Lloyd Conservative Woman

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/when-killing-people-is-government-policy/
October 6, 2020

NO Conservative Prime Minister can survive if he or she is taking decisions that are contrary to the interests of most people in the country. The Covid-19 measures which Boris Johnson is forcing on the public are clearly against those interests, and worse is being planned.

The health, education, employment, finances and social and mental wellbeing of the population is being destroyed for the illusory goal of stopping the spread of a coronavirus that is essentially harmless to 99 per cent of the population, and lethal almost exclusively to the elderly with serious underlying medical conditions, as are many strains of seasonal flu.

Much of the damage being wreaked is disguised by the Chancellor’s furlough scheme and other taxpayer-funded handouts, but revealed through an explosion of government debt which will have severe negative consequences for all of us, particularly future generations.

The ramping-up of virus tests with the dubious PCR (Polymerase Chain Reaction) methodology is inevitably showing more ‘cases’ which in reality may be just harmless fragments of the Covid-19 (or other) coronavirus RNA that can’t be transmitted to others. These are not infections and certainly not illnesses. The bar on proof of infection is too low.

The government refuses to acknowledge that this increase in cases is largely due to the increased testing, and allows the message to embed in the surrounding narrative that a positive test – which may also be a false positive – is equivalent to being ill when the overwhelming majority of those who are Covid-19 positive don’t become ill, let alone die. It is in the business of exaggeration and fearmongering along with most of the mainstream media.

The most important measure of what is happening medically is surely the number of deaths that can be attributed, to a greater or lesser extent, to Covid-19. The graph below from the Office for National Statistics (taken from the ‘Lockdown Sceptics’ latest newsletter) gives the up-to-date figures, showing that Covid-19 attributed deaths since June are running well below those of flu/pneumonia, and that the total weekly UK death numbers from these lung-related infections are running in line with the five-year average.

As fast as the numbers of those seriously ill, and the daily death toll from the virus, are declining, the risk of other undiagnosed and untreated serious illnesses and deaths is rising because of the lockdown mentality still affecting the NHS and other public services, encouraged by government.

On Saturday 66 GPs wrote to the Health Secretary, Matt Hancock, urging him to treat non-Covid deaths as equal to those from Covid. The doctors know that this is not happening at present. For reasons of projecting an image of action and having illusory control over the path of the virus, only Covid deaths matter to the government.

The doctors’ letter reports that there have been more than 30,000 excess deaths in private homes since March, but fewer than one in ten are caused by Covid-19. They are also concerned that ‘the pandemic has resulted in an inflation of acute cardiovascular deaths, most of which did not relate to Covid-19’. They also point to a report suggesting that child suicide rates increased during lockdown and, for these doctors, harm should be measured as more than Covid deaths.

There is so little pressure from the Conservative Party, MPs and the media for the government to act rationally and in the interest of the country as a whole that the government doesn’t feel it has to explain why non-Covid-19 deaths and serious untreated illnesses don’t matter. It has a monomaniacal obsession with Covid-19 which demonstrates how unaccountable the government is to the overall public interest. There is no rigour left in our system of parliamentary and public accountability, which needs a major overhaul.

Far more people are dying because of the government’s measures than are being saved by them. The wholesale destruction of society is taking place for no significant gain in health or mortality and it is government policy.

171731 ▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 13, #3 of 2225 🔗

Thanks, Patrick. Sent this to my useless Guildford MP under the heading ‘You are not doing your job’.

Dear Angela Richardson,

The Conservative Woman has it about right:

Quietly accepting the emergence of a blinkered, autocratic and all-invasive state is not what my parents’ generation fought the Second World War for.
Nor did they make their sacrifices for the set of immature, narcissistic politicians in charge of our national life today. Most are at best timid, at worst hubristic – incapable of taking responsibility for their own affairs, let alone those of others.
https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/we-fight-on-thanks-to-your-generosity/

There is so little pressure from the Conservative Party, MPs and the media for the government to act rationally and in the interest of the country as a whole that the government doesn’t feel it has to explain why non-Covid-19 deaths and serious untreated illnesses don’t matter. It has a monomaniacal obsession with Covid-19 which demonstrates how unaccountable the government is to the overall public interest. There is no rigour left in our system of parliamentary and public accountability, which needs a major overhaul.
Far more people are dying because of the government’s measures than are being saved by them. The wholesale destruction of society is taking place for no significant gain in health or mortality and it is governmen t policy.
https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/when-killing-people-is-government-policy/

172011 ▶▶▶▶ HoMojo, replying to James Bertram, 16, #4 of 2225 🔗

Borrowed some of this to write to my MP, hope you don’t mind:

Dear……,

Thank you for your reply to my last email though I have to say it has just enhanced my bitter disappointment at MPs not doing their job and holding this government to account. I am particularly incensed by the line ‘in order to save lives we need to take action’ when it is commonly accepted now that far more people are being killed by the government’s measures than are being saved by them. The wholesale destruction of society is taking place for no significant gain in health or mortality and it is government policy.

The Conservative Woman has it about right: https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/when-killing-people-is-government-policy/

Note that this is a CONSERVATIVE publication.

I am also somewhat irked that you didn’t answer any particular
points that I made so that your reply came across as a stock letter to all
those irritants who have the temerity to question our representatives.  In
particular you skated over my reference to quarantining people like by 96 year
old mother in solitary confinement being akin to torture as defined by a UN
Special Rapporteur in 2011.

My mother lived through The Blitz in London and is now a constituent of yours. Quietly accepting the emergence of a blinkered,,autocratic and all-invasive state is not what her generation fought the Second
World War for. Nor did they make their sacrifices for the set of politicians in
charge of our national life today, many who would be perceived – on both sides of the house – as  immature, narcissistic and self-serving. Most are at
best timid, at worst hubristic – incapable of taking responsibility for their
own affairs, let alone those of others. And certainly not resisting government
strictures of a despotic and totalitarian nature. Ms. (my MP) , this will
affect you and your children too. All the freedoms you and they have taken for
granted will be dissipated.

Why no kickbacks against the current ludicrous guidelines such as
the rule of six, anti-social distancing and facemasks, none of which have any
grounding in science? I have over a dozen studies in my bookmarks on my
computer testifying that facemasks, in particular, are useless. Their only
purpose is as a symbol of compliance and subservience, a demonstration of a
seemingly willing population ready to be servile to tyranny.

There is so little pressure from the Conservative Party, MPs and
the media for the government to act rationally and in the interest of the
country as a whole. Consequently the government doesn’t feel it has to explain why non-Covid-19 deaths and serious untreated illnesses don’t matter. It has a monomaniacal obsession with Covid-19 which demonstrates how unaccountable the government is to the overall public interest. There is no rigour left in our system of parliamentary and public accountability, which needs a major overhaul.

The headline to the article I linked to in this letter says it
all: ‘When Killing People is Government Policy.’ How ironic it should be
published at the same time as the Covert Human Intelligence Sources (Criminal Conduct) Bill, passed its second reading in the House – a law that will give the right for various government agencies including HMRC and the FSA to kill its own citizens with apparent impunity.

Yours sincerely


173275 ▶▶▶ Monty Bodkin, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 3, #5 of 2225 🔗

I copied this to my MP (Simon Fell). It’s the fourth time I’ve written to him and I haven’t yet had even an acknowledgement. He’s a new boy though, so he’s possibly more concerned about his career than he is about the opinions of his constituents.

180926 ▶▶▶▶ Monty Bodkin, replying to Monty Bodkin, #6 of 2225 🔗

Just to put the record straight: Simon Fell has now replied to me and assures
me that he is a libertarian and is disturbed by the continued erosion of our liberties. He promises to keep up the pressure on our dear Secretary of State for Health. This is good. I thought that if I got an answer at all it would be party line stuff but this is reassuring. He seems to be on our side.

171449 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 69, #7 of 2225 🔗

They came for the birds and no one spoke up
They came for the swine and no one spoke up
They came for the cattle and no one spoke up
They came for the sheep and no one spoke up
They came for the bats and no one spoke up
They came for the pangolins and no one spoke up

Then they came for me and no one spoke up

(Mainly because every living thing had been slaughtered at the behest of Ferguson by this time)

171453 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Cecil B, 52, #8 of 2225 🔗

Bojo’s Ark Embarkation Centre:

TWO of each species ONLY
OBEY SOCIAL DISTANCING
GIRAFFES, that includes you, stay at least 12 metres apart
Blue whales, we have a committee working on the problem, we’ll get back to you
Yes, ALL LIVING THINGS, Ferguson’s model was invented in the pre-microscope era, amoebae, get your amorphous asses on board
NO SINGING
String quartet on the first class deck is fine but NO WIND INSTRUMENTS
Mr Hancock, did you fail to hear my last instruction? Get off the first class deck!
Right, that’s everyone, off we go
Er, no, not sure where to – no doubt we’ll find a mountain sticking out somewhere to run aground on
Hove to, avast, me hearties, do I look good in this tricorn hat or WHAT?
Lovely day for a spot of sailing

Er, sorry, folks, but one of the chipmunks has a sore throat, We’re scuttling the vessel. We’re all going to drown so we don’t die of covid. NO HUGGING

171456 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 10, #9 of 2225 🔗

Brilliant

171464 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 11, #10 of 2225 🔗

Whoa whoa whoa! Two of each species but one of each must be LGBTQetc. I see no problem with this. Get on it.

171542 ▶▶▶ helen, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 6, #11 of 2225 🔗

Hilarious Thanks

171539 ▶▶ helen, replying to Cecil B, 5, #12 of 2225 🔗

Love it Thanks!

172110 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Miss Owl, 7, #14 of 2225 🔗

I could name you a few people I’d like to feed to the sharks.

172121 ▶▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #15 of 2225 🔗

I’m with the sharks every time. Splendid creatures. My Colosseum will be a watery one.

173566 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Cheezilla, #16 of 2225 🔗

I have a very long list!

172119 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Miss Owl, 3, #17 of 2225 🔗

They can use the bodies of the sharks the Chinese kill by slicing off their fins for the disgusting soup. The unspeakable and the untenable, joining forces in pursuit of the uneatable

172227 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Miss Owl, 6, #18 of 2225 🔗

Shark lives matter

173281 ▶▶▶ Monty Bodkin, replying to Miss Owl, 2, #19 of 2225 🔗

Signed. Thanks for the link. I’ve passed it on to others.

173386 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Miss Owl, #20 of 2225 🔗

Signed and donated

171450 NorthumbrianNomad, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 124, #21 of 2225 🔗

Couldn’t be bothered to write paragraphs of argument that will achieve nothing but an eyesroll from a bored intern, but I did write the following to my MP today.

Dear Ms Trevelyan,

I note that you voted in favour of the extension of the Coronavirus Act. I will never vote for you or your party again.

Yours etc

171451 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 16, #22 of 2225 🔗

Well done you

171467 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 18, #23 of 2225 🔗

Well said! Succinct and no wriggle room.

171501 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 12, #24 of 2225 🔗

Direct to the point. Hope she takes the hint.

171584 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #25 of 2225 🔗

Do you think she will?

Until September 2020, Anne-Marie was Secretary of State for International Development, tasked with overseeing the UK’s contribution to international aid and development delivers the best results, transforming the lives of the world’s poorest and most vulnerable people, while promoting Britain’s economic and security interests.

Her wider interests involve spending time with her family, making the most of the incredible landscape her vast and varied constituency affords and putting her passion for singing to good use by taking part in Singing for Syrians concerts in Westminster.

171588 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to AidanR, 15, #26 of 2225 🔗

That would be singing for The White Helmets and the CIA terrorists “rebels” that burned Syria to the ground then.
No she won’t have any trouble trashing the UK either for the greater good.

171990 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to AidanR, 1, #27 of 2225 🔗

If that’s the case then she won’t sadly.

172438 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to AidanR, 4, #28 of 2225 🔗

Sings, does she?
Not now. Fuck the Syrians, eh?

171538 ▶▶ petgor, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 15, #29 of 2225 🔗

My MP is Tobias Ellwood. ’nuff said?

172531 ▶▶▶ JVS, replying to petgor, 5, #30 of 2225 🔗

🙁 same here. After sending 4 emails and getting ‘blah-blah’ replies, I don’t think I can muster any more energy to even point out I believe his being with the 77 surely means he cannot possibly have his constituents’ interests at heart.

173579 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to petgor, #31 of 2225 🔗

My condolences. My MP is invisible she does not acknowledge my emails, she might as well not be there.

171550 ▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 5, #32 of 2225 🔗

As Mr Punch used to say before he was outed as a misogynist
That’s the way to do it !!!

171585 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to tonyspurs, 11, #33 of 2225 🔗

Misogynist is what feminists call men who call them on their bullshit. Nothing more.

171666 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to AidanR, -7, #34 of 2225 🔗

Oh dear, did someone once hurt your delicate feelings by calling you a misogynist, one wonders?

172356 ▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Bruno, 4, #35 of 2225 🔗

Hardly, dear. No doubt I’ve been called it though, for the reasons above.

Hell, any woman who vocally disagrees with feminism’s divise marxist gobbledegook gets accused of having ‘internalised misogyny’.

173086 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to AidanR, -6, #36 of 2225 🔗

Chill. You seem to know more about how women are treated than you do about spelling – usually the mark of someone getting hot under the collar.

171452 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 27, #37 of 2225 🔗

The dictator has promised us wind farms

At least Marie had the good grace to offer a slice of Victoria Sponge

172111 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cecil B, 4, #38 of 2225 🔗

It’s probably the first idea that would come to the tiny mind of a blustering windbag.

171454 RyanM, replying to RyanM, 17, #39 of 2225 🔗

Boris understands he doesn’t need a mask, right?

171461 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to RyanM, 24, #40 of 2225 🔗

Not often do you see the words ‘understands ‘ and ‘Boris ‘ in the same sentence

171509 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to RyanM, 6, #41 of 2225 🔗

Perhaps he’s still infectious.

Or he likes the theatre.

171531 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Thinkaboutit, 12, #42 of 2225 🔗

Which would then beg the question, what’s the point of the vaccine if it doesn’t confer immunity?

171593 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to stewart, 14, #43 of 2225 🔗

To force the world into a carbon free utopia in 20 years time. Obviously.

172956 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to stewart, 4, #44 of 2225 🔗

CONTROL.

173585 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to stewart, #45 of 2225 🔗

It’s getting us used to being jabbed with whatever concoction they come up with.

173581 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Thinkaboutit, #46 of 2225 🔗

He likes theatre is right!

171522 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to RyanM, 11, #47 of 2225 🔗

He would probably still test positive with a PCR.

172112 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sarigan, 3, #48 of 2225 🔗

For ever!

171455 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 7, #49 of 2225 🔗

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/10/07/the-cruelty-of-the-covid-secure-classroom/

The new normal in classrooms.

What long term consequences await ?

171479 ▶▶ Richard, replying to wendyk, 25, #50 of 2225 🔗

The point here not being made that in some schools things are pretty much normal – it’s the interpretation of guidelines by over zealous head teachers and unionised teachers that is causing the problem. But the core of the message get into the school and actually see what’s happening is absolutely correct. Far too many sheeple parents just accepting whatever they are being told.

171480 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Richard, 4, #51 of 2225 🔗

Don’t they listen to what their own little lamples are telling them?

171502 ▶▶▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to annie, 9, #52 of 2225 🔗

Children tend not to talk much about school all you get is “fine “

171491 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Richard, 5, #53 of 2225 🔗

I’ve been told by one parent, one teacher and one pupil that things are quite relaxed locally

171518 ▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Richard, 19, #54 of 2225 🔗

Still furious at my daughters primary schools “request” that face coverings be worn on site – out doors – I & my wife seem to be the only ones who refuse. It’s pathetic beyond belief. And came about because other parents – via bastard face book – demand it.

171579 ▶▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Leemc23, 15, #55 of 2225 🔗

I know…same at my daughters school. I’m normally the only one not wearing a mask and I get a lot of angry looks. People are sheep and will obey and that is pretty much how it is everywhere. Stay strong and show your daughter that following the crowd is not what makes you a good human being.

171520 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Richard, 24, #56 of 2225 🔗

‘Which are your mummy and daddy, then?’
‘The two human beings over there, the only ones, easy to recognise.’

171864 ▶▶▶ Sikboy, replying to Richard, 4, #57 of 2225 🔗

Add to that the culture ‘gold plating’ we have when it comes to regulations and you have a lethal cocktail.

172100 ▶▶ Lyra Silvertongue, replying to wendyk, 4, #58 of 2225 🔗

I can confirm that in many schools you would have no idea all this hysteria is going on. The children are exorted to use hand gel but that’s been a ‘thing’ for years. No masks for staff or kids, desks are still in rows (they wouldn’t fit everyone in), school dinners provided. Some schools don’t allow visitors or ‘recommend’ masks in corridors, but it’s laxly enforced.

Also used my regular garage today and nobody had a nappy nor did they make any objection when I’d forgotten mine. I’d love to recommend them but for obvious reasons won’t give the name.

172116 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lyra Silvertongue, 3, #59 of 2225 🔗

That’s a breath of good news!!

171457 wendyk, 9, #60 of 2225 🔗

Excel-ation: a novel way to breathe in the New Normal; track and trace resistant.
,

171458 RyanM, 5, #61 of 2225 🔗

Anyone wanna play “spot the fallacies?” Nevermind, it’s no fun.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/06/us/politics/coronavirus-dc-white-house-congress.html

171459 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 54, #62 of 2225 🔗

Is no one else seeing incredible significance in Boris’s speech today? He is using a well-known globalist slogan “Build Back Better”. To me, it seems perfectly obvious, now, that he’s been got at and is just following some script.

171473 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to Barney McGrew, 19, #63 of 2225 🔗

No. It’s just bumbling incompetence.

171763 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Mark H, 19, #64 of 2225 🔗

Incompetence, like the way HCQ was withdrawn worldwide in the west after the Chinese mentioned that chloroquine was giving positive results in the treatmemt of C-19?

172049 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Mark H, 13, #65 of 2225 🔗

It’s not incompetence.

Mistakes were made. Lessons have been learnt. Those responsible have been pensioned off. Yada, yada, yada.

Meanwhile the world we know is ruined.

171478 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Barney McGrew, 16, #66 of 2225 🔗

Build Back would seem to acknowledge something has broken or been seriously damaged, surely not the official position ?

171544 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to karenovirus, 3, #67 of 2225 🔗

The corona did it is the official position.

171674 ▶▶ RichT, replying to Barney McGrew, 11, #68 of 2225 🔗

He might not be your cup of tea but James Corbetts latest video “I am a conspiracy theorist”, shows the many recent uses, by globalists, of the phrase “Build Back Better”.
I always get suspicious when phrases like “New Normal” and “Social Distancing” are being used in lockstep around the world.

Worth a watch, even if you have to hold your nose :).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-p5mQmmf9M

171810 ▶▶ James Bertram, replying to Barney McGrew, 18, #69 of 2225 🔗

James Delingpole picked up on this in May:
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/05/31/delingpole-build-back-better-the-latest-code-phrase-for-green-global-tyranny/
“Build back better” is actually a United Nations invented phrase and what it actually means is more world government, more green taxes and regulation, more expensive energy, more identity politics, more corporatism — and, of course, less freedom and entrepreneurialism….
Dennis Ambler has been keeping tabs on how often this mantra is being used. It’s everywhere and it’s frightening…..
If you thought the nightmare was going to end once the coronavirus scare passed, think again: it’s only just beginning.
The greens and the globalists aren’t about to let a crisis going to waste. This is the moment they have been waiting for. And don’t expect much resistance from politicians – even ones wearing the ‘Conservative’ label, like Boris Johnson.
They’re part of the problem.

171848 ▶▶ RichT, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #70 of 2225 🔗

He might not be your cup of tea but James Corbetts latest video “I am a conspiracy theorist”, shows the many recent uses, by globalists, of the phrase “Build Back Better”.
I always get suspicious when phrases like “New Normal” and “Social Distancing” are being used in lockstep around the world.
Worth a watch, even if you have to hold your nose :).

Had to remove link and post again as my original comment has been awaiting approval for ages if you want to watch this just search corbett report on youtube.

172132 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #71 of 2225 🔗

Some details here. Rather worrying!
https://thenewamerican.com/build-back-better-biden-rips-off-orwellian-un-slogan/

It’s Joe Biden’s slogan.
However, there was no mention of the UN’s own “Build Back Better” scheme upon which it seems to be based — and that is not surprising, since American voters would likely be horrified. British Prime Minister Boris Johnson is using the same phrase, too, as are authorities in Canada and multiple other nations. The World Economic Forum, which is pushing the “Great Reset” alongside the UN and the IMF , is also peddling “Build Back Better” as a slogan to “reinvent capitalism.”

172207 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Barney McGrew, 9, #72 of 2225 🔗

He’s not been got at, he agrees with all this green shite.

172986 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #73 of 2225 🔗

It’s usually a pretty daft idea to put those that were responsible or in favour of the destruction in charge of the rebuild.

171460 wendyk, 3, #74 of 2225 🔗

https://thecritic.co.uk/i-come-not-to-bury-boris/

Worth reading . Rishi does his best by video link, but, the link has an Excel moment.

171462 chaos, 20, #75 of 2225 🔗

It was a brilliant speech by Carrie.. sorry Stanley.. sorry the WEF.. sorry Davos.. sorry Boris. I can’t wait to be part of the wind revolution. Meanwhile.. it’s really late. Need to take my antidepressants and sleeping pills (needed due to lockdown anxiety and uncertainty and the dishonest green/pharma/agenda 2030 coup using covid as its trojan horse). Night night. Take my soma.. to fall into a coma.. because of corona..

171463 RyanM, replying to RyanM, 3, #76 of 2225 🔗

Huh… This popped up on YouTube while I was looking for something else. I have always hated Brand, so I didn’t watch the whole thing… But I saw Toby’s face, and looking at the comments, it appears even Brand isn’t impressed with masks.

https://youtu.be/6R3e2BMcKnk

171497 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to RyanM, 6, #77 of 2225 🔗

Not wishing to look at Brand I scrolled a long way down the comments.
100% Sceptics, most presumably coming from his subscribers.

172684 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to karenovirus, 2, #78 of 2225 🔗

He is much better as a guru than he was as a comedian. The gibberish he talks as a guru is much more endearing than the obnoxious crap he tried to pass off as funny…

171465 Sir Patrick Vaccine, 11, #79 of 2225 🔗

When killing people is Government policy – Email this to you MP – it might seem poinless but it’s better than nothing.
By
Peter Lloyd Conservative Woman

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/when-killing-people-is-government-policy/
October 6, 2020

NO Conservative Prime Minister can survive if he or she is taking decisions that are contrary to the interests of most people in the country. The Covid-19 measures which Boris Johnson is forcing on the public are clearly against those interests, and worse is being planned.

The health, education, employment, finances and social and mental wellbeing of the population is being destroyed for the illusory goal of stopping the spread of a coronavirus that is essentially harmless to 99 per cent of the population, and lethal almost exclusively to the elderly with serious underlying medical conditions, as are many strains of seasonal flu.

Much of the damage being wreaked is disguised by the Chancellor’s furlough scheme and other taxpayer-funded handouts, but revealed through an explosion of government debt which will have severe negative consequences for all of us, particularly future generations.

The ramping-up of virus tests with the dubious PCR (Polymerase Chain Reaction) methodology is inevitably showing more ‘cases’ which in reality may be just harmless fragments of the Covid-19 (or other) coronavirus RNA that can’t be transmitted to others. These are not infections and certainly not illnesses. The bar on proof of infection is too low.

The government refuses to acknowledge that this increase in cases is largely due to the increased testing, and allows the message to embed in the surrounding narrative that a positive test – which may also be a false positive – is equivalent to being ill when the overwhelming majority of those who are Covid-19 positive don’t become ill, let alone die. It is in the business of exaggeration and fearmongering along with most of the mainstream media.

The most important measure of what is happening medically is surely the number of deaths that can be attributed, to a greater or lesser extent, to Covid-19. The graph below from the Office for National Statistics (taken from the ‘Lockdown Sceptics’ latest newsletter) gives the up-to-date figures, showing that Covid-19 attributed deaths since June are running well below those of flu/pneumonia, and that the total weekly UK death numbers from these lung-related infections are running in line with the five-year average.

As fast as the numbers of those seriously ill, and the daily death toll from the virus, are declining, the risk of other undiagnosed and untreated serious illnesses and deaths is rising because of the lockdown mentality still affecting the NHS and other public services, encouraged by government.

On Saturday 66 GPs wrote to the Health Secretary, Matt Hancock, urging him to treat non-Covid deaths as equal to those from Covid. The doctors know that this is not happening at present. For reasons of projecting an image of action and having illusory control over the path of the virus, only Covid deaths matter to the government.

The doctors’ letter reports that there have been more than 30,000 excess deaths in private homes since March, but fewer than one in ten are caused by Covid-19. They are also concerned that ‘the pandemic has resulted in an inflation of acute cardiovascular deaths, most of which did not relate to Covid-19’. They also point to a report suggesting that child suicide rates increased during lockdown and, for these doctors, harm should be measured as more than Covid deaths.

There is so little pressure from the Conservative Party, MPs and the media for the government to act rationally and in the interest of the country as a whole that the government doesn’t feel it has to explain why non-Covid-19 deaths and serious untreated illnesses don’t matter. It has a monomaniacal obsession with Covid-19 which demonstrates how unaccountable the government is to the overall public interest. There is no rigour left in our system of parliamentary and public accountability, which needs a major overhaul.

Far more people are dying because of the government’s measures than are being saved by them. The wholesale destruction of society is taking place for no significant gain in health or mortality and it is government policy.

171468 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 7, #80 of 2225 🔗

https://www.ft.com/content/3f205365-f41f-482d-94d8-05518bd25d03

Another black hole in the nation’s finances. Fraudulent bounce back loan claims. Debt recovery unlikely.

171595 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to wendyk, 6, #81 of 2225 🔗

I was told by people in the motor trade that a lot of very nice cars were being bought off the proceeds of that scheme. Usually by chancers with fingers in several business pies.

171635 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to karenovirus, 5, #82 of 2225 🔗

Chickens coming home to roost: villains outwitting HMG as per usual.

172140 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to wendyk, 4, #83 of 2225 🔗

But it’s us honest guys at the bottom of the pile that pay for it all.

172436 ▶▶▶ Roadrash, replying to karenovirus, 2, #84 of 2225 🔗

I was told about someone who did just that – bought a new car

171469 RyanM, replying to RyanM, 6, #85 of 2225 🔗

I just read that article from “the hill” about Trump’s meeting with the three doctors… Of course the writing is almost comically biased, but that is to be expected. Something else comes to mind as being an important consideration with respect to the discussion about herd immunity. All of those in disagreement talk about “letting the virus spread like wild,” or “unchecked,” or some other version of that… But this assumes much, and raises an important question. Namely: “how much is what we are doing actually suppressing the virus?”

Common sense tells us that it must have some effect. How could it not? But there are a lot of numbers and comparisons that suggest otherwise.

171470 ▶▶ annie, replying to RyanM, 27, #86 of 2225 🔗

From the DM article kisted by Toby a ove:

“Statistics have shown that coronavirus cases appear to rise in most areas that get put under local lockdown measures, raising questions about how well they work at containing smaller outbreaks.”

Raising questions? Providing answers, more like.

171489 ▶▶▶ Nic, replying to annie, 9, #87 of 2225 🔗

Spain was under strict lockdown for months but desths continued to rise long after th virus incubation period

171536 ▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Nic, 7, #88 of 2225 🔗

Peru

171551 ▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to jhfreedom, 12, #89 of 2225 🔗

Peru’s an interesting case because they were stricter earlier. Whilst Spain and Italy locked down hard, Peru actually mandated masks from March and used military enforcement of their lockdown. Since we know masks can increase viral load in the infected and the evidence suggests they do very little to stop the spread (and can, in real world usage, actually increase it) this would account for the higher death rate.

171557 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Andrew Fish, 12, #90 of 2225 🔗

I have family who live there. I don’t claim to know what actually went wrong but my mother’s relatives blame it on a lack of healthcare (despite Peru’s mineral wealth), poor hygiene and most people living on top of each other. The lockdown also meant you could only go out to market once a day for an hour or so. This meant people clustered rather than dispersed. Also obesity among the poor.

But I agree that restrictions generally don’t work and kill the economy.

172143 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nic, 2, #91 of 2225 🔗

Deaths in general or deaths FROM covid?

173599 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Nic, #92 of 2225 🔗

Annd their mask enforcement is very strict yet the ‘cases’ continue to rise.

171546 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to annie, 5, #93 of 2225 🔗

It would be interesting to know how the numbers stack up when you scale the “cases” according to the number of tests. Presumably testing is increased in local lockdown areas, so it could be an artefact of PCR false positives rather than actual cause and effect. Not saying local lockdowns work, of course, but my reading of the evidence is that they achieve nothing, rather than actually accelerate the spread.

172146 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Andrew Fish, 2, #94 of 2225 🔗

They accelerate the use of testing and the spread of false positives!

171490 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to RyanM, 33, #95 of 2225 🔗

Even a muppet can tell that hand washing and avoiding close contact with somebody sick, is going to give you some chance of not getting sick. The idea that hundreds of thousands would die if we did nothing was complete fiction, as most people will take these simple measures.

171512 ▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to PoshPanic, 13, #96 of 2225 🔗

The idea that hundreds of thousands would die must have assumed we’d all stagger into work on crowded trains sneezing all the way, then go home and cough all over granny.

171515 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Thinkaboutit, 15, #97 of 2225 🔗

It also assumed no pre-existing immunity and a higher fatality rate.

171556 ▶▶▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to Thinkaboutit, 26, #98 of 2225 🔗

Unfortunately the vast majority of people swallowed the asymptomatic line and genuinely believed and still do that healthy people walking amongst them will kill them ,I doubt they will ever rid themselves of that notion

172350 ▶▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to tonyspurs, 2, #99 of 2225 🔗

Yes, that is a huge problem.

171561 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to PoshPanic, 19, #100 of 2225 🔗

YES!!

When I explain my position to coronaphobes I make clear that I acknowledge the virus as a ‘thing’. But then, common decency (wash hands, keep surfaces clean, if you are sick stay away, keep the place aired) plus recognition that anything more doesn’t work and kills the economy, is the kindest and most civilised way to go about this.

171642 ▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to jhfreedom, 8, #101 of 2225 🔗

I don’t wash my hands any more frequently than prior to the Damn Panic.
Pointless, imo.

171743 ▶▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Kevin 2, 4, #102 of 2225 🔗

I don’t, because I was already washing them enough!

Interesting point above re. being forced into work. Maybe that contributed to the mess in March.

171702 ▶▶▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to jhfreedom, 15, #103 of 2225 🔗

I only stay at home if I am too sick to leave. Yes I admit I’ve been to work when I am probably infectious with other viruses – because that’s exactly what my (public sector) employer demand of us and they dish out disciplinary warnings if you don’t.
When many years ago I worked as cabin crew for BA it was even worse – getting your pay docked and no bonus if you were sick meant I always went in unless my ears were blocked and I feared the pressure might damage them.
I have worked for two employees (one private one public) who decided who they’d make redundant during the last recession/austerity by how sick employees had been.
If we want to encourage sick people to stay home we need to rethink how we compensate them, and not just for one particular coronavirus!

171492 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to RyanM, 22, #104 of 2225 🔗

If masks and the PCR test wasn’t being used to bash us over the head people would employ common sense, wash hands stay at home if sick. Oh and the relentless barrage of media brainwashing doesn’t help.

171629 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to RyanM, 13, #105 of 2225 🔗

Why would the measures suppress the virus?
It’s highly transmissible and the majority were exposed months ago.
The ‘measures’ are simply to maintain the illusion of a dangerous virus out there, that will kill droves of us if we relax.
There is nothing much to suppress anyway.

And why would you want to suppress the virus?
Then you end up with Victoria.

The UK is attempting to shut the stable door after the horse bolted about five months ago.
Same as contact tracing. That makes zero sense when 80% have been previously exposed.

Actually none of the measures are really about virus suppression. They’re all about something else.

171720 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Kevin 2, 3, #106 of 2225 🔗

What do we know about exposure levels in different parts of Britain? Do we think it tore through London and its commuter belt, i e most of southern England, by the end of March; there was some finding of at least 1300 seed events in that period, largely from Spain and Italy, through the rest of England too. But does SW England, and the North, still have lots of susceptible people? Are there serological studies complete yet, to tell us? And can they tell us that, anyway?

172153 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bruno, 2, #107 of 2225 🔗

Well they haven’t been dropping like flies in Bournemouth and people have flocked there every sunny weekend for months.

173023 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Bruno, 3, #108 of 2225 🔗

I think it’s pretty evenly soaked through everywhere. The last time I looked at death rates per local authority, which was several months ago, it was very even. Some places have higher equilibrium levels than others and you reach equilibrium in the space of about a month. It would be impossible to have kept areas outside London below equilibrium for this long without very severe quarantining etc, which we never did.

173486 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to guy153, 1, #109 of 2225 🔗

Thanks, will look at LA death rates.

173576 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Bruno, #110 of 2225 🔗

Let us know what you find! It was way back in April that I did that, would be interesting to compare again now.

171471 Brian D, 40, #111 of 2225 🔗

How to share things with friends and family without exasperating them and has been something I’ve struggled with over these last few months. So far I’ve been sharing some links on fb, brought together in a kind of theme for each post. However, from a discussion I had with Mrs D recently I was somewhat knocked back when she said that some of the articles are a bit too long a read (or words of that sort). At first I find this shocking but then realise it’s really quite unsurprising that if someone doesn’t see that their rightful freedoms and choices are being taken away then they will have no appetite for long reads.

So I shared with them a pick of 4 good twitter feeds as the nature of Twitter is its necessity to be short and succinct. I’m hoping this will encourage those who are willing to take a look at the counter argument to read what they’ve posted without feeling like they’re wading into long reads. The four I’ve chosen offer a fairly all rounded counter argument but without much emotion so feel like a stronger starting base – Carl Heneghan, Mike Yeadon, Law or Fiction and Ivor Cummins.

Keep praying, consider where we were a few weeks ago and where things are now. Vaccination is the only argument they have left to keep this going and we all know it doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

171472 annie, replying to annie, 74, #112 of 2225 🔗

So Wancock thinks that the best way to help csncer patients is not to treat them.

Help, I need some new, stronger words to express the extremes of evil and stupidity.I’ve run out.

171475 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to annie, 58, #113 of 2225 🔗

It seemed worse than that to me. He appeared to be using the threat of withholding cancer treatment to browbeat people into locking themselves down. In other words, using the threat of non-treatment to terrify people into… not seeking treatment. I look forward to seeing what Karol Sikora has to say in response to that.

171476 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 29, #114 of 2225 🔗

I wouldn’t wish cancer on anybody, but if Wancock got it, it would be the best example of poetic justice in world history.

171534 ▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to annie, 14, #115 of 2225 🔗

Or just give him a scare. A lump that turned out benign, or similar. A shot across the bows warning him not to weaponise the health service if we don’t behave. Because we will ALL need it one day.

171714 ▶▶▶▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to jhfreedom, 11, #116 of 2225 🔗

Or better still just a lump that he has to worry about every day because he can’t get the screening/testing to find out that’s it’s benign.
Eventually he’ll find a way to skip the queue, Dr will blow the whistle and hopefully he’ll be gone.

172338 ▶▶▶▶ Jakehadlee, replying to annie, 2, #117 of 2225 🔗

Oh I would wish it on him

171477 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 25, #118 of 2225 🔗

Why not just wipe out the whole human race? No more covid, no more cancer, and most importantly of all……. No more stats

171487 ▶▶▶ Nic, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 11, #119 of 2225 🔗

Please kick the bastard out asp he must go

171548 ▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 18, #120 of 2225 🔗

I would like the International Criminal Court to have something to say too.

171661 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 18, #121 of 2225 🔗

This one will surely backfire on him..
Pretty much everybody has a close relative or friend, who has died or is currently ill from cancer. And the notion that cancer sufferers are somehow expendable is surely anathema even to diehard sheep.

I also thought about Sikora and wondered about whether he would be able to sustain his studiously moderate voice in the light of this verbal threat from Halfcock.

171503 ▶▶ Chris John, replying to annie, 6, #122 of 2225 🔗

Matthew Wanksock

172962 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to annie, 4, #123 of 2225 🔗

A Covid dead is worth 200x as much politically as a cancer dead these days.
The equivalent of their costs to the economy as well.

171474 NorthumbrianNomad, 20, #124 of 2225 🔗

Headline today: “Newly discovered species of toothless, two-fingered dinosaur thrived more than 68 million years ago”
What they don’t tell you is that it was discovered working at 10 Downing Street, using its four fingers to try to count to six.

171481 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 35, #125 of 2225 🔗

From exchanges on here, it will have become clear that those interested in numbers are having a lot of fun.

It may also have become clear that a lot of the covid 19 statistical fun is just that, not to be taken seriously.

There is no international standard definition of a covid 19 death

There is no international standard definition of a covid 19 ‘case’

There is no international standard definition of a covid 19 ‘infection’

There is no international standard definition of covid 19 PCR test cycle thresholds

As a consequence, confirmation bias is present in every strand of opinion derived from international evidence

Since the quantity of international evidence is huge, most strands of opinion will be evidenced.

So………the data is junk……except for overall all cause mortality, and that is plumb normal for the time of year everywhere.

That is all the evidence any government needs.

And the longer they refuse to see it, the higher the price they will pay in due course……..

We’ve been here before…..anyone remember that ‘nice Mr Major’…….

171486 ▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Tim Bidie, 4, #126 of 2225 🔗

So true

171496 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Tim Bidie, 6, #127 of 2225 🔗

This article from June seems to sum up how ill defined the definition for Covid 19 death is..

https://www.biomerieuxconnection.com/2020/06/25/the-relationship-between-sepsis-and-covid-19-what-we-know/

172168 ▶▶ djaustin, replying to Tim Bidie, 3, #128 of 2225 🔗

I don’t disagree with is the notion of cause of All-Cause death being the gold standard. Week 39 England and Wales All-Cause mortality was almost equal to the maximum for the past 10 years (9639 vs. 9689). The median for 2010-19 is 9099 and the mean 9152. So about 500 deaths above a “typical” year. We are 68785 above for cumulative deaths.

171482 annie, replying to annie, 11, #129 of 2225 🔗

Intrigued by the mention of Marx’s racism above, I found this gem of claptrap prefacing an edition of his letters to Engels:

“A Note from History Is A Weapon : It has come to our attention that this page is very popular with right-wingers who delight in Marx and Engel’s use of racial slurs to discredit Marxist thought. Unfortunately, Marx and Engels were Europeans of the nineteenth century and in that period of time, racism was commonplace and permeated the political, scientific, religious, literary, and social spheres. Marx contained multitudes: there are other letters from Marx that, for example, congratulate Abraham Lincoln on his re-election as “the triumphant war cry of your re-election is Death to Slavery.” This isn’t an excuse for Marx or Engels’ racism, but a challenge to all of us: for the left, we must create a revolutionary marxism that demands a totalizing liberation of all from any and all oppressors in the same way that capitalism steels itself in racism, heterosexism, colonialism, and patriarchy; for the right, maybe don’t limit yourself to a cynical ctrl-F for the N word and dismiss all marxist thought as racist because Marx and Engels had flaws .”

http://hiaw.org/defcon6/works/1862/letters/62_07_30a.html

My emboldening.
So it’s sufficient excuse for Marx that he was a man of his time, but not for anybody that the Left doesn’t like.

171484 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 3, #130 of 2225 🔗

‘Totalizing liberation’ means it’s only how old ?

171801 ▶▶ Mark, replying to annie, 4, #131 of 2225 🔗

Of course. The accusation of “racism” is almost invariably a political smear tool.

171483 karenovirus, 2, #132 of 2225 🔗

From Toby’s piece about the threat to journalism.
Todays Local Live has 7 Covid stories, the last one being buried beneath the sports reports “ONS Figures show no Covid deaths for (yet another) week”.

Two articles side by side
“How Local Democracy Reporting Service ensures factual reporting of the biggest issues”

“Reporting the facts on Coronovirus – how our trusted journalism matters more than ever”

The lady doth protest too much.

171485 The Spingler, replying to The Spingler, 37, #133 of 2225 🔗

Why are people, including Toby, surprised that Boris is so completely incompetent? Pre his asecendance to the throne he’d shown zero evidence, in whatever role he’d taken up – journalism, mayor, foreign secretary – of anything other than bluff and bravado. Ex colleagues only ever talked about his incompetence and shaky relationship with the truth.

I’m stumped by why people thought he’d suddenly shine when becoming PM. Of course the alternative was Corbyn who would have been a far more calamitous PM but to be surprised and disappointed by Boris’s performance now is baffling.

171505 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to The Spingler, 8, #134 of 2225 🔗

I don’t know about Corbyn. I had the suspicion that if he had won a large part of the media would be on Communist Watch. He’d have to tiptoe around. The trouble was his milquetoast direction on Brexit which did him no favours.

And the infighting in the Labour party.

Boris was also the foil to May who squandered any good will she had.

171540 ▶▶ nottingham69, replying to The Spingler, 9, #135 of 2225 🔗

What I saw last autumn was a man of courage taking on the establishment. One of those Brexit debates on a Wednesday night when he took down Swinson, Corbyn and the Scots he was brilliant. He showed no fear leadership then. I didn’t expect the weak coward version we have now.

171577 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to The Spingler, 9, #136 of 2225 🔗

I think the ‘competence’ thing is a bit if a straw man. A leader could still be great, yet incompetent at tying their own shoelaces. I think most supporters of Boris were happy that he couldn’t use a spreadsheet and probably couldn’t remember how many kids he’d got. But ‘incompetence’ is used against him by people like Toby because no one now knows what he stands for. It’s hard to argue with someone’s motivation if you don’t know what it is. In frustration, their competence is the thing you can actually point to.

171701 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Barney McGrew, 32, #137 of 2225 🔗

Judge a man by his actions not his words.In little over 7 months he has established a police state.Forced the population to wear masks.Forbid sex between consenting adults.Made it illegal to sing or dance in a bar or pub.Made it almost impossible to go on holiday abroad on pain of incarceration when you return.Banned live concerts,sports events.He is also planning a second lockdown where restrictions on commerce will be instituted again,
But he’s just a libertarian kind of guy

171791 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Barney McGrew, 8, #138 of 2225 🔗

I agree. A leader requires a level of basic common sense, and moral fibre, not the kind of detail competence we seem to expect of them nowadays. It’s easy to laugh at the idea of Johnson displaying moral fibre now, and point to his dishonesty and womanising, but plenty of leaders have had such flaws in spades in the past (Churchill, for one), but still managed to listen to the right people and make the right decisions at key moments.

There is no apology needed for voting “Conservative” in the last election (though I didn’t), since there can be no credible claim that a Corbyn government (or a Starmer one, for that matter) would have been a jot less disastrous than this one in the coronapanic.

It’s also easy to imagine a world in which, with different advice, Johnson went the other way and became a Churchillian anti-lockdown hero, still without the kind of “competence” he is now criticised for lacking.

He made the wrong choice at the crucial moment and must bear full responsibility for that. No forgetting and no forgiving, for him.

But those who voted for his party should not accept any responsibility for the events of this year. In the context of the election itself, it was clearly the right choice out of those available. Though events since highlight, imo, the systemic problem we have from the absence of any representation for traditionalist and conservative opinion.

171687 ▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to The Spingler, 7, #139 of 2225 🔗

I agree Spingler and I’m guilty. But in defense, I ignored the PMs many unexplained behaviour traits and obvious crassness and blustering and spouting Greek when he actually can’t string a sentence together that shows an ability to think seriously. I was so desperate last year with the disastrous May government that I was delighted we had Boris to sort ‘it’ out – or at least just as was said ‘get Brexit done’. I have bitterly regretted how we came to get to that decision and what that has now become. But how did it happen that we are all now part of a national hysteria AND a global hysteria? I just can’t get my head around it. It really does feel like the end of an era with no obvious path out. Did anyone remember the first book in C.S.Lewis Narnian series, set in a world coming to the end? Was it the Magician’s Nephew?

172473 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Keen Cook, 2, #140 of 2225 🔗

Yes. Brilliant book.

171488 helen, 14, #141 of 2225 🔗

No excess mortality from Covid-19: Head of the Health Department Frankfurt Germany compares Corona with flu and heat waves – October 1, 2020

Are German officials beginning to waking up and speak out?

Article published Berliner Zeitung reports that Professor Dr. med. René Gottschalk, Leader des Gesundheitsamtes in Frankfurt, now urgently calls for a broad public discussion on the goals and means of fighting pandemic.

Google translation
This discussion must go beyond purely virological questions and include ethical aspects as well as legal questions for the legitimate purpose of the suitability, necessity and appropriateness of the measures.
In addition, Gottschalk criticizes the discussion about the risk of virus infection through aerosols, a discussion that has moved far from reality.

171493 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 13, #142 of 2225 🔗

Regarding Nucleic acids mentioned above, one of their key features….?

They hang around for a long time……so might, for example, be detected by increased testing many months after a minor common cold coronavirus infection was fought off by a youngster’s immune system, without that person ever having noticed…..

The data is junk…..

171581 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Tim Bidie, 4, #143 of 2225 🔗

Somebody round here was suggesting that we don’t know that there isn’t a general build-up of these fragments in the environment as time goes on. I naively thought at one time that an uninfected person would have zero of these fragments in their nose, but do we know this is true? Is the test becoming more and more ambiguous as time goes on?

171494 court, replying to court, 49, #144 of 2225 🔗

Great, my 4yo daughters school bubble has closed due to 1 positive infection. 135 kids in 3 years now have to stay at home and wait for this ‘person’ to have 2 more tests.

Ludicrous. I’m so angry as she was enjoying the structure and learning greatly, she was very disappointed when I told her this morning.

My wife and I can ‘work’ at home whenever, but it must be so difficult in these circumstances having a minimum wage job to put food on the table where you have to turn up to get paid.

171498 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to court, 24, #145 of 2225 🔗

Well according to Rishi, these parents can just re train and get a new job.

171500 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to PoshPanic, 5, #146 of 2225 🔗

Starting next April

171507 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to PoshPanic, 16, #147 of 2225 🔗

PP – That particular faux pas appears to have woken up a whole host of musicians.

171565 ▶▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Tom Blackburn, 11, #148 of 2225 🔗

It’s another signal, if we needed it, that nobody in this government has a clue about the arts and creative industries.

171610 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to PoshPanic, 13, #149 of 2225 🔗

Your last six words are entirely unnecessary 😉

171513 ▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to PoshPanic, 21, #150 of 2225 🔗

Haha, yes, amazing that you can just retrain and emerge at the same level of seniority in a new industry, all whilst keeping the mortgage paid. Rishi is truly a magician!

It’s not just those on minimum wage or the low paid who can’t work from home either, my fairly decent career which by its very nature could not involve remote working is teetering on the edge!

171558 ▶▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 3, #151 of 2225 🔗

Yeah and here it is straight from the horses mouth, even though he says he didn’t..er.. say that..or I think mean that, or something?

https://twitter.com/emma_sallows/status/1313449012381523969

171576 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to PoshPanic, 15, #152 of 2225 🔗

The ignorance of these politicians is staggering.

I mean, what he says might have some merit in a normal recession. Industries grow and shrink all the time, and yeah, we do have to adapt to that throughout life. But he doesn’t seem to acknowledge that this is a situation that the government has forced onto previously fine industries with perfectly viable business models in the “normal” world. They basically did it overnight too. He may live to regret those comments.

171528 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to PoshPanic, 7, #153 of 2225 🔗

Just like the miners did in the 1980s, right…

171543 ▶▶▶▶ bucky99, replying to jhfreedom, 5, #154 of 2225 🔗

And the 60s & 70s, when most of them were closed… 😉

172076 ▶▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to bucky99, 4, #155 of 2225 🔗

Very true. I’ve seen a chart of employment in British coal mining, and there was a big drop in the 1960s and 70s including the period when Labour were in power from 1964-70. I think the smaller less efficient pits were closing and employment was consequently falling though output was maintained. But the largely unquestioned myth is that “the Tories” were entirely responsible for the demise of the coal industry with closures in the 1980s and 90s. Incidentally, since nowadays the widespread view is “coal bad, wind good”, I wonder what the left would be saying if there still was a significant coal industry in Britain?

172596 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ianric, replying to Edward, 3, #156 of 2225 🔗

Thatcher is villified for closing coal mines which is something Thatcher’s opponents love to use against her but it is often forgotten pit closures were occurring long before Thatcher under both Tory and Labour governments without these governments being villified for it.

173185 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Edward, 1, #157 of 2225 🔗

Still be bags of wind.

172476 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to court, 3, #158 of 2225 🔗

Who has a 4 year-old tested for covid???

173186 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #159 of 2225 🔗

The same brute as tests a two-year-old, see comment below.

171495 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 5, #160 of 2225 🔗

Message to JohnB, just seen your comment from yesterday – had to google. Thanks, started the day with a JohnB inspired laugh!

173269 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to kh1485, #161 of 2225 🔗

My pleasure Kim. You did very well not to smash a teapot over that council creature’s head. 🙂

171499 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 7, #162 of 2225 🔗

Seeing the rewording of Kiplings If reminds that it was read out in full on BBC R2 one morning last week, with mo snarky comments about him being a racist or colonialist.
Likewise J.K.Rowling was on the Ken Bruce show 5 days in a row delighting us with her favourite tunes. Germaine Greer was invited to air her opinion on matters feminine.
That these three have been let off the naughty step might indicate a slow retreat by the beeb from ultra-wokeness.

171563 ▶▶ mjr, replying to karenovirus, 4, #163 of 2225 🔗

As far as Kipling is concerned i dont think even the BBC could overlook the hypocrisy and outrage that would come from them being critical of a poem which was voted Britain’s favourite poem in a poll that BBC ran themselves! ! Admittedly that was 1995 which is a lifetime away!

171572 ▶▶ kf99, replying to karenovirus, 8, #164 of 2225 🔗

I think Ken Bruce has been a bit of sanity in all this. He is careful to give no political views at all (rightly), but there’s a gentle chuckling at the absurdity of it all.

171727 ▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to kf99, 3, #165 of 2225 🔗

I agree. I very clearly remember him saying when the “rule of six” garbage was brought in, something to the effect of “More restrictions are being imposed but are we letting it get us down? Well, yes we are, actually.”

171504 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #166 of 2225 🔗

Labour activists finally waking up?

Express: Labour activists demand Keir Starmer RESIGN after Corbyn leads rebellion.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1344664/Keir-Starmer-news-Labour-leader-rebellion-Jeremy-Corbyn-overseas-security-bill-Spycops

171511 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #167 of 2225 🔗

No, they do this virtually every day on Twitter. It’s just the Momentum propaganda machine so I wouldn’t get my hope up as most of those accounts aren’t even real.

171508 Ethelred the Unready, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 3, #168 of 2225 🔗

Here’s one for Free Speech Union, cancel culture in all its glory…

https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/18775579.councillor-bill-pipe-removed-stop-search-comments/?action=success#comments-feedback-anchor

(Apologies, not really about lockdown, but Ethelred angered)

171582 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 2, #169 of 2225 🔗

In the same paper, Magellan Aerospace is closing because of the “downturn” in the industry. The last major downturn in the industry was after 9/11. I remember that well.

This is a completely self-inflicted one and ironically the upcoming leader in aerospace is quickly becoming COMAC – i.e. the Chinese

171510 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 20, #170 of 2225 🔗

Was invited to a day trip yesterday to St Albans and it was my first time to venture outside London since this madness.

We were a group of six and I was the only one who wasn’t muzzled. Had no problems at all in the train and the places we went.

What was interesting during this trip was observing how people kept putting on and taking off their muzzles as well as crucially constantly touching their faces. it makes me wonder if they’re really aware of the lack of logic with muzzling but I suspect that people are wearing it simply for an easy life and not to stand out. Certainly I did stood out being unmuzzled and all that.

I was speaking to one of the guides at the cathedral, a nice old lady and I struggled to understand what she was saying and she must have fiddled with her face around 20 times during our 10 minute conversation.

St Albans is a lovely place to visit but just like London it was depressing to see it devoid of life and many of the locals scurrying about like zombies as they tried to numb the horrors of life right now.

171569 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Bart Simpson, 18, #171 of 2225 🔗

Get rid of the masks and it’s over!!!

171591 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to stefarm, 7, #172 of 2225 🔗

Exactly. However I’m noticing that some people seem to be clinging on to them as some sort of security blanket.

171599 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #173 of 2225 🔗

Yes a lifebuoy that ironically is stopping them living their life

171647 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to stefarm, 6, #174 of 2225 🔗

The sad thing is they don’t see it that way.

171612 ▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to Bart Simpson, 26, #175 of 2225 🔗

Yes. I’m sick to death of seeing people fiddle with their masks. Either wear it properly or take the fucking thing off and be done with it. It’s what you get when you let untrained people loose with PPE.

It’s interesting but my wife, an avid mask wearer when she is in the supermarket and other shops, now has a nasty cough and chest infection. She is not normally prone to chest infections and while discussing it with her her conclusion was that she could only have picked it up in the supermarket because at no other time does she come into direct contact with other people.

I noted somewhat sarcastically, “So the mask is working then”… and I just let that thought hang because despite my non-mask wearing advocacy she still continues to wear one.

171657 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to The Filthy Engineer, 11, #176 of 2225 🔗

And these cloth masks aren’t PPE anyway – more like a useless fashion accessory masquerading as protection.

Some colleagues are starting to complain about skin rashes due to mandatory muzzling at work. I simply mouth off platitudes given they have blanked me every time I tried to raise the futility of mask wearing. Give it more time and I’ll be seeing others developing nasty coughs, chest infections, impetigo and dermatitis.

171691 ▶▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Bart Simpson, 10, #177 of 2225 🔗

My company, which I’ve not actually worked for for a while due to furlough, have mandated masks in pretty much all situations unless you’re sat at a desk or working alone. They’re not a British company so “thankfully” the usual exemptions and rules apply on UK premises.

Anyway, the other day I received an email from them advising of the risk of rashes from masks and how to combat them. So they openly acknowledge that these things cause harm and are not able to provide any substantiated evidence that they are beneficial! I see lawsuits coming in the future.

171856 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 6, #178 of 2225 🔗

That’s ironic that they’re informing you of the risk of rashes and yet are mandating them. Indeed I see lawsuits coming in the future especially if the rashes transmogrify into something bad even worse or the poor person will have to spend a fortune treating them.

171774 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to The Filthy Engineer, #179 of 2225 🔗

So I’m guessing you’ll be doing the supermarket run now.

171938 ▶▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to Bruno, 4, #180 of 2225 🔗

Not really no. T o avoid disrupting the weekends m y wife will normally go to the supermarket during the week after the school run while I am at work and the supermarkets are generally quieter whether there was covid or not.

171976 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to The Filthy Engineer, #181 of 2225 🔗

I will just let that thought hang in the air, ‘somewhat sarcastically’,

171628 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #182 of 2225 🔗

Yesterday I spotted one of our local odd bods sitting in his usual place outside a grocery chain: mask under chin, cup in hand,chewing on something.

I see this everywhere now, along with the masked drivers, who worry me, as a loss of concentration behind the wheel could pose a real threat to us pedestrians.

171653 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to wendyk, 8, #183 of 2225 🔗

Seeing masked drivers both in the car and the underground trains do worry me. If I see the tub driver masked I would not get into the train and will wait for the next one.

Another appalling sight are driving students and their instructors both masked. However I’ve been seeing less and less of that over the last month or so.

171777 ▶▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #184 of 2225 🔗

In the game of “Mask Top Trumps” I think I can go one better than that: I was at a local air field recently that hosts a couple of flying schools and I kid you not, as I watched one of the aircraft taxy out both the student and the instructor had face masks on.

I’m minded now to go and have a look at the CAA guidance on masks while flying.

171858 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to The Filthy Engineer, 5, #185 of 2225 🔗

I take it that would be the same as driving – unconsciousness as a result of oxygen deprivation would lead to a plane crash?

172157 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #186 of 2225 🔗

I didn’t find anything on the CAA website that made a lot of sense but I did find guidance to General Aviation on a gov.uk website: It was suitably vague and non-committal in that it said no more than –

Where social distancing guidelines cannot be followed in full, training schools and instructors should take the most appropriate actions to reduce the risk of transmission.”

wearing a face covering, where it is safe to do so”

172096 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #187 of 2225 🔗

Unfortunately I saw that very thing (driving instructor and learner) this morning. But an interesting thing in the pedestrianised shopping street: three 20-something ladies, one properly masked, one with it below the chin, and the other free-faced, obviously pals, chatting away happily as they walked along. The false dogma is “wear a mask to protect others”, but from their behaviour none of them were worried about catching “it” from the others.

171728 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #188 of 2225 🔗

Presumably people who go on guided tours of Cathedrals know there is more to life than a Kardashians rear end which makes the conformity more disappointing.

171851 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to karenovirus, 4, #189 of 2225 🔗

I didn’t see any guided tours but the volunteer guides were hanging around to welcome visitors, answer questions and be available to anyone who wants to chat.

The two guides I spoke to were very helpful and knowledgeable however the woman particularly was difficult to understand given her muzzle. The bloke was better as he was wearing a visor.

171799 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #190 of 2225 🔗

My home town! Glad you enjoyed it. But unfortunately it is very woke, zombified and pro-lockdown.

171846 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to A. Contrarian, 7, #191 of 2225 🔗

I did yes and well said about the wokeness – the window in the museum was filled with BLM, XR and slavery displays; all of them ahistorical and an affront to real history.

171932 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #192 of 2225 🔗

St Albans is very much London commuter territory so no doubt enjoying working from home.

172087 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #193 of 2225 🔗

I visited St Albans mainly for the cathedral back in those distant days of sanity in January.

172123 ▶▶ Lyra Silvertongue, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #194 of 2225 🔗

Happy to say I was told last night at work ‘I think you shouldn’t wear a mask. We need to hear what you’re saying’

172447 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Lyra Silvertongue, 4, #195 of 2225 🔗

By that argument, Bojo and Wancock ought to wear masks 24/7/365.

172882 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Lyra Silvertongue, #196 of 2225 🔗

Yay!!! Should have said that to the lady in the cathedral.

171514 percy openshaw, replying to percy openshaw, 10, #197 of 2225 🔗

The omnipotence of the international hard left is daily more apparent. Marx is now openly referenced and praised – the one nineteenth century figure not deemed “problematic”, apparently. On a BBC programme about writing, the presenter blandly discussed Mao as if he were any other modernising leader – Mao, butcher of sixty million! – and viewed a propaganda cartoon, of Gorky about to stab a “capitalist” to death with giant pen, as telling us that the pen is mightier than the sword – when of course the image perverts the pen into a sword, which is about to be used to murder someone. Is this conspiracy? Or is it simply the effect of a lot of left wing idiots, casually excluding conservatives from important institutions over a number of years and suddenly realising the consequent power to revert to shameless bigotry? Either way it is shocking and vile. And the Tory party under that cowardly idiot Johnson is in no fit state to oppose it.

171519 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to percy openshaw, 16, #198 of 2225 🔗

We don’t have a conservative party in this country anymore, just a fearful shambolic cabinet of lightweights.

But I don’t think this tawdry episode of history is all about Left v Right, it is also about ignorance v. enlightenment and authoritarianism v. personal freedom. Moderates on both side should be in agreement and unite over this issue.

That said, Lockdown Sceptics is somewhat on the Right and I haven’t seen (correct me here please) an equivalent Left site lobbying for the end of lockdown. I suspect the engorgement of the state is just too enticing for many to lobby against even at the terrible cost it comes with.

171526 ▶▶ stewart, replying to percy openshaw, 8, #199 of 2225 🔗

The prevailing thought is that it is the result of the take over by left-thinking people of key areas of our society most notably universities and the media. And that after years of being exposed relentlessly to left-wing ideas large parts of the population have been indoctrinated.

171554 ▶▶ mjr, replying to percy openshaw, 7, #200 of 2225 🔗

i have just watched this programme. Did you?
It is all about the development of writing and a large part of this episode was about the imposition of different writing systems for political or cultural reasons. So it featured Ataturk replacing Arabic script with Latin script in Turkey for cultural reasons. It featured Lenin replacing arabic with Latin script in Uzbekistan and then Stalin replacing with cyrillic and then Uzbekis replacing that with Latin again.. All for political reasons .
The piece on Mao was no different. It did not glorify Mao, It made the point that Mao tried to introduce Latin script to China mainly through political texts (hence the Gorky image) which failed.
Everything was relevant and in context and needed to show the politics. A surprisingly good series from the BBC (which i hate)
But i think you just saw what you wanted to see

171655 ▶▶▶ percy openshaw, replying to mjr, 2, #201 of 2225 🔗

And the benign interpretation of the vicious propaganda cartoon? And if someone made the point, in a programme about transport, that Hitler invented the autobahn, with no reference at all to his broader policies – this would be acceptable, would it? And dealing, without wider comment, with a small aspect of cultural policy which in all the countries mentioned bar Turkey was murderous and destructive in the extreme? This is acceptable? The communist assault on script was part of a wider assault on traditional society which resulted in democide in each case. Simply sliding round this fact is despicable. Did you watch the programme? And are these blinkers made of strategic silence to your taste? It strikes me you are either naive or disingenuous. This is part of the continual normalisation of communism being pursued by the left and only a fool or a sub-rosa leftist would deny it.

171740 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to percy openshaw, 4, #202 of 2225 🔗

That’s what is really damaging. You could go ether way and be consistent and honest. I would go with hardheaded reality and not worry about emotive associations, so I don’t mind if people discuss the good or effective things done by people such as Hitler, Stalin and Mao. Or you could go the restrictive, intolerant and anti-free speech approach of saying anybody who did anything really bad must be pretended to have been utterly without redeeming features, for the greater good (that way of course lies an honest version of cancel culture and historical suppression).

But what we have are a bunch of dishonest hypocrites demonising those they regard as on the other side politically while giving a pass to those they see as ideologically sound.

171979 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Mark, 1, #203 of 2225 🔗

Thank you for skewering Percy so comprehensively in your last para!

171587 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to percy openshaw, 3, #204 of 2225 🔗

I would laugh so hard if Marx had some links to the slave trade.

172515 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cicatriz, 4, #205 of 2225 🔗

Thet will have already been dealt with in the Records Department of the Ministry of Truth.

171516 Nigel Sherratt, 10, #206 of 2225 🔗

Wind ‘20% of domestic power’ is the standard con. Even if true it only relates to electricity and leaves out much larger gas consumption. All the eco conpeople use it.

171517 jhfreedom, replying to jhfreedom, 26, #207 of 2225 🔗

Can anyone share recent polling numbers on attitudes to lockdown?

I am noticing a lot more scepticism on forums like the Daily Mail and the FT, and clearly there is more political resistance now with the Tory MPs and Northern mayors dissenting.

But when I’m out and about I still see mass compliance and fear, and I cannot reconcile the two.

171523 ▶▶ chaos, replying to jhfreedom, 14, #208 of 2225 🔗

It’s hard to judge. Certainly vastly more people now are sceptical than 6 months ago. Even my 75 year old mum now entertains the idea of the great reset. 6 months ago she said I was mad for showing her lockstep and such. Personally I think polls like you.gov are rigged. After all, polls like mainstream media stories can shape opinion. Polls are mainpulated like mainstream media to shape and herd opinion.

171529 ▶▶ stewart, replying to jhfreedom, 11, #209 of 2225 🔗

Maybe the sheep are out because they don’t mind the muzzling and general hectoring and the sceptics are taking refuge indoors and are tapping away furiously at their computers…

171533 ▶▶ nottingham69, replying to jhfreedom, 13, #210 of 2225 🔗

The sceptic thinking is gaining traction and when the free money is much reduced next month that will accelerate fast. When it becomes real what we have given up, employment for those who want it pretty much, yes it is sure to have an effect. More than a few Conservative mp’s have got their head out of their backsides. They know what is coming.

172521 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to nottingham69, 1, #211 of 2225 🔗

Then they should have voted against the Covert Human Intelligence Sources Bill on Monday!

171535 ▶▶ Guirme, replying to jhfreedom, 11, #212 of 2225 🔗

Mass compliance with is not the same ad mass agreement with.

171537 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Guirme, 13, #213 of 2225 🔗

Yes, like East Germany. You don’t like it but you go with it. Bad things happen when good people do nothing. WAKE UP!!!!

171559 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to jhfreedom, 17, #214 of 2225 🔗

I agree, comments on BBC news articles are becoming more sceptical and the highest rated comments are the sceptical ones. I think the mass compliance comes from herd mentality and not wanting to be the one to stand out. Also it’s much easier to type a sceptical comment keyboard warrior style than it is to actually grow a pair and stand up in public to say enough is enough. Present company excluded of course, we’re a special kind of stubborn! 😉
Anyone I’ve spoken to doesn’t agree with the restrictions but goes along with them anyway. So frustrating.

171564 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 7, #215 of 2225 🔗

I went to Tesco on Monday and wore a mask because I “didn’t want the hassle”.

I feel ashamed.

Next Monday I won’t wear it.

Somehow in healthcare settings (pharmacy, GP etc.) I don’t dare go down the exempt route because I feel I will be thrown out regardless or will be given less treatment or won’t be examined if I need to be etc.

171617 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to jhfreedom, 7, #216 of 2225 🔗

I’ve been regularly to local pharmacy; no need to show my badge,and to dentist and optician where no one objected to my maskless presence.

Worth checking beforehand ,as this puts them on the spot, but it should work for you.

have a go.

171925 ▶▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to jhfreedom, 6, #217 of 2225 🔗

Been maskless to hospital consultant, and doctors (twice) and pharmacy. No problem if you telephone beforehand and make it clear you won’t be wearing a mask; and ask politely if they have any different arrangements for that, such as turning up early. They might ask if you are exempt (only once was I asked – normally the receptionist is very understanding and doesn’t even ask). If you feel you are (see Law or Fiction website – Low Mood – seems to give much scope) then just say yes. You do not need to give a further explanation. Ask them to put this on your appointment record.
If you have any trouble with the Door-Stasi, just tell them that you’ve discussed the matter already all is in hand, and there should be a note on your appointment record to that effect.
So never had a problem. But best to telephone in advance.

172541 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to jhfreedom, 4, #218 of 2225 🔗

Mask wearing causes extreme distress = exemption.

172944 ▶▶▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to jhfreedom, 3, #219 of 2225 🔗

They were fine with me at the local hospital when I said I was mask exempt. I am obviously disabled but I was nervous I’d have a fight on my hands but they couldn’t have been nicer.

171562 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to jhfreedom, 5, #220 of 2225 🔗

Its hard to say. Obviously the tide seems to be turning but on antisocial media especially on Arsebook, you still get loads of lockdownistas and mask zealots. I get the feeling that attitudes will shift again once furlough ends this month and with rising unemployment and bankruptcies at the beginning of next month.

171583 ▶▶▶ Nic, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #221 of 2225 🔗

Also mortgage holiday ends this month

171594 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nic, 2, #222 of 2225 🔗

And I believe rent holiday as well.

171604 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard, replying to Bart Simpson, 10, #223 of 2225 🔗

Exactly the true damage to the economy is about to come hurtling home to millions sadly. Very soon everyone will know people who have lost jobs / houses etc – but very likely they still won’t really know anyone who has had the virus.

171631 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Richard, 9, #224 of 2225 🔗

Agree. No scheme can disguise any longer the economic damage wrought by lockdown, social distancing and masks.

Had a colleague who tested positive but it only turned out that she had a bad cold. However she still had to self isolate whilst 6 more had to do so for a week. Had that colleague just stayed at home and not had a test, none of this would have happened.

171811 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #225 of 2225 🔗

Any idea why she didn’t just do that, stay at home with this cold, I mean?

171869 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bruno, 3, #226 of 2225 🔗

I have no idea. However she has long exceeded her sick leave allocation and I suspect she had to do the test to satisfy some sort of requirement with HR.

171982 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #227 of 2225 🔗

That figures.

171770 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #228 of 2225 🔗

Not a rent holiday just the Courts refusing to look at evictions for rent arrears.

171868 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to karenovirus, 1, #229 of 2225 🔗

I stand corrected.

171573 ▶▶ Julian S, replying to jhfreedom, 9, #230 of 2225 🔗

I comply because I am fearful, not of the virus, but of the police and the law.

171654 ▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to Julian S, 10, #231 of 2225 🔗

But the law is on your side regarding exemptions through the Equalities Act and the Disability Discrimination Act. In fact everyone is theoretically exempt from wearing a mask because I can’t believe that wearing one isn’t causing them some kind on mental distress.

171736 ▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to The Filthy Engineer, 4, #232 of 2225 🔗

It’s the ‘hassle factor’. And people are sheep, they just comply without thinking. Like impala crossing the wadis even though they are chock-full of crocs.

171800 ▶▶▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to jhfreedom, 8, #233 of 2225 🔗

I agree. But at some point you just have to take a deep breath and brazen it out. I appreciate that some (most?) people might not have the personality type to do that but by the same token I think that you only grow and learn as an individual when you take on these challenging situations that put you outside of your comfort zone.

I also invariably find that when you have done this once the second, third and any number of subsequent times it gets easier as you adapt.

172084 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to The Filthy Engineer, 9, #234 of 2225 🔗

Ok I will revert to no-mask. I owe it to society to do so.

172451 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to jhfreedom, 6, #235 of 2225 🔗

Good for you. You are now a walking advert for the human race, against the disgusting dominance of the zombie race.

171778 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Julian S, 5, #236 of 2225 🔗

The police won’t want to get involved unless you do something gross like breath and cough on peoples babies while haranguing them about the uselessness of masks.

171596 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to jhfreedom, 14, #237 of 2225 🔗

In summary “Do you support locking down other people”:

  • Yes – 100%
  • No – 0%

One of my rules in life is ignore what people say, pay attention to what they do.

171603 ▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Recusant, 5, #238 of 2225 🔗

A very good rule. Talk is cheap.

171651 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Recusant, 1, #239 of 2225 🔗

A valuable rule indeed.

171712 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Recusant, 3, #240 of 2225 🔗

And: “do you support wearing of masks to allow virtue signaling if it actually increases chances of spreading/getting viruses:”
Yes 99% No 1%

171768 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to jhfreedom, 2, #241 of 2225 🔗

I’m awaiting the result of Sturgeon locking down Scotland for the school holidays. Kids will be thinking
‘it’s ok enough to have to go school but not ok enough to see me mates on holiday’.
Happy families I think mot.

172120 ▶▶ Edward, replying to jhfreedom, 4, #242 of 2225 🔗

I’m just back from my “experiment” of trying to avoid all news (including this site) for a week. Actually I saw a few newspapers and I was aware of Trump catching covid. There does seem to be a bit of resistance to current policies appearing at higher levels of business and politics. However in the arts world the call still seems to be “give us more money” rather than resisting the policies which prevent them plying their trades. The general public mostly seem to be going along with the “rules” for a quiet life. I haven’t heard any more about “fights in the supermarket” between mask fanatics and free facers, which was a worrying trend a couple of weeks ago.

172134 ▶▶ Lyra Silvertongue, replying to jhfreedom, 5, #243 of 2225 🔗

I certainly feel it’s a lot easier to voice a moderate skeptic opinion, and I feel like I’m meeting more people who are openly ‘done with lockdown’. I would go as far to say that on days I avoid news and don’t have to use a nappy I can pretty easily forget there’s anything out of the ordinary going on.

171521 chaos, replying to chaos, 7, #244 of 2225 🔗

Great news great news! Carrie has agreed to let Boris Kemal spank her with his wiff waff bat as part of a game where she plays the part of the sexy naughty hungry lockdown student who has sneaked out of her halls of residence for a sandwich. As a reward for out great dictator’s enjoyment every British household will recieve a bottle of ecover washing up liquid and a hedgehog.

171532 ▶▶ jb12, replying to chaos, 5, #245 of 2225 🔗

As we say in Scotland, this is crap patter, mate.

171541 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to jb12, 3, #246 of 2225 🔗

Shurely shum mishtake? As you say in Scotland: please keep us in the EU dear leader. Please keep us inside and masked Frankie. Oooo my knickers are wet. I’m scared Frankie. Och Aye. No to Freeeeeeeeedom!

171567 ▶▶▶▶ jb12, replying to chaos, 1, #247 of 2225 🔗

That’s a bit better. 🙂

171641 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to chaos, #248 of 2225 🔗
171524 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 12, #249 of 2225 🔗

https://twitter.com/FrancescoLari/status/1313566643214340105
“Although UK news seems to be missing it, it seems certain that from midnight tomorrow the UK will be added to the list C, so if travelling to Italy you will have to declare to have taken a (negative) test in the previous 72 hrs
Bad news from Italy if it is true that UK will be added to the restrictions entering Italy requesting a PCR test costing 150-200 £ extra. Italy once again falling into the tourist country suicide trap. Yesterday masks mandate everywhere and today this possible new requirement. Difficult to find something so obvious stupid as quarantine for people coming from countries with the same transmission rate as they have themselves. This is ludicrous to think that this risk of transmission from visitors would really add anything in their own countries. These restrictions were never in place in the last flu pandemics(when sane epidemiologists were in charge) and will just ruin the Mediterranean countries as the proles will not afford the extra costs. End of mass tourism and millions of jobs lost. Impossible that the other service sector could swallow these amounts of job losses.

171530 ▶▶ chaos, replying to swedenborg, 23, #250 of 2225 🔗

Telegraph leading with a story about air travel vaccine passports to start today.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/07/clear-covid-passports-aim-let-air-travellersbypass-quarantine/
How much longer can Toby Young and James Delinpole et al ignore the great reset? Wind farms.. bicycle lanes.. passports.. an unprecendented and damaging lockdown around the globe for a mild virus – one amongst many.
Mandatory vaccines come next. At what point will people resist en masse?

171571 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to swedenborg, 4, #251 of 2225 🔗

This is going to have devastating effects on some areas for sure.

171892 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to swedenborg, 4, #252 of 2225 🔗

That is one of the goals of the WEF.
Destroy mass tourism as it is bad for the environment.There is no scientific rationale for quarantine if the virus is endemic in your society.
When it could have made a difference in January Whitty said the benefit was very small.

171525 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #253 of 2225 🔗

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41577-020-00460-4 Cross-reactive memory T cells and herd immunity to SARS-CoV-2
 Important new article discussing different hypothetical scenarios of T cell and herd immunity level.Article written by Lipsitsch who has been highly critical of discussing reduced herd immunity due to T cells immunity

171706 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to swedenborg, 4, #254 of 2225 🔗

In each of the three scenarios that we consider plausible, the reduction in viral spread potentially afforded by pre-existing immunity is already accounted for by the empirical observational data available and factored into epidemiological models of spread and herd immunity — with the key caveat that if T cell immunity varies geographically and affects transmission, the extrapolation of epidemiological parameters across populations may not be fully valid.’

Reference above 

Do they mean that if national overall all cause mortality is empirically observed to be plumb normal, then the other ’empirical observational data available and factored into epidemiological models of spread…’ must be rubbish, creating the rubbish out that so many models have produced?

171738 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to swedenborg, 3, #255 of 2225 🔗

I note that he doesn’t even address any notion of diminished virus virulence due to genomic mutation..
I guess that is the ultimate taboo and potentially career-ending for any researcher to even moot such a possibility.

171824 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Kevin 2, 1, #256 of 2225 🔗

Why would it be career ending? I recall at least one such report, suggesting that the case examined could have resulted in a mutation more infectious but less virulent? (Can’t trace immediately, was it HK, Malaya?)

171527 Ben Shirley, replying to Ben Shirley, 4, #257 of 2225 🔗

Apologies if this is already well-known but I’ve just discovered Will Franken’s Youtube channel. It’s sane and funny.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8-8Okj0t8pD3sKG0MtMzAQ

171645 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Ben Shirley, #258 of 2225 🔗

He’s a most unusual chap. The way he builds a comedy routine is genius.

171545 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #259 of 2225 🔗

Well done Mr. Young for ensuring even in these times of stress that the Irish Taoiseach’s name is spelt correctly – his name isn’t Michael. Maith thú!

171553 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Ned of the Hills, #260 of 2225 🔗

Is it pronounced the same as Michael?

171560 ▶▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to Thinkaboutit, 3, #261 of 2225 🔗

No its pronounced Mee-hall.

171566 ▶▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Seansaighdeoir, #262 of 2225 🔗

I was about to say that. Go raibh maith agat.

171570 ▶▶▶▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #263 of 2225 🔗

Ní raibh brón orm seasamh in aghaidh.

171639 ▶▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 1, #264 of 2225 🔗

Thanks. It took me ages to get my head around Taoiseach, I’ll add Meehall to my new vocabulary list.

171699 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Seansaighdeoir, #265 of 2225 🔗

How does he pronounce my name?

171833 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #266 of 2225 🔗

And how do we pronounce Ssd’s? And is it John….something in Anglo?

171931 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to Bruno, #267 of 2225 🔗

Very good.

171796 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Seansaighdeoir, #268 of 2225 🔗

Like that nice Mr Gorbachev?

172577 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Seansaighdeoir, #269 of 2225 🔗

Isn’t it obvious from the spelling?

171547 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 9, #270 of 2225 🔗

The article from Freedom House about democratic infringements in the pandemic recommended by Toby today is rubbish produced by a suspicious NGO. You won’t read a word about the censorship by YouTube,FB,Twitter etc. This is fake reporting masquerading as investigative journalism.

171696 ▶▶ Mark, replying to swedenborg, 4, #271 of 2225 🔗

Yes, I wouldn’t trust Freedom House as far as I can throw it, in its entirety. Note that the UK isn’t included in either the “democracy has grown weaker” graphic (despite the enabling of government rule by fiat), nor in its “Government abuses” graphic – no mention of the police violence here (nor even in Australia!).

In fact the UK qualifies under all six of the “key government abuses” categories:

Electoral disruption (local and mayoral elections postponed)
Legislative meeting interruption (enabling act and government by fiat
Media restriction (ofcom case)
Restrictions on protests (duh!)
Detention or arrest (likewise)
Police violence (order given to clear Trafalgar Square with batons)

171897 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Mark, 2, #272 of 2225 🔗

If it looks like a coup,sounds like a coup,then it probably is a coup

171549 JohnMac, replying to JohnMac, 35, #273 of 2225 🔗

This is a transcript of the highlights from Dr. Margarite Griesz-Brisson’s recent video, translated from German into English by Claudia Stauber.

Basically, she is saying that masks on children will cause them brain damage. She is an expert in this field, as you can see.

The key sentence is this:

“Oxygen deficiency inhibits the development of the brain, and the damage that has taken place as a result CANNOT be reversed.”

Dr. Margarite Griesz-Brisson MD, PhD is a Consultant Neurologist and Neurophysiologist with a PhD in Pharmacology, with special interest in neurotoxicology, environmental medicine, neuroregeneration and neuroplasticity. This is what she has to say about masks and their effects on our brains:

Transcript:

“The rebreathing of our exhaled air will without a doubt create oxygen deficiency and a flooding of carbon dioxide. We know that the human brain is very sensitive to oxygen depravation. There are nerve cells for example in the hippocampus, that can’t be longer than 3 minutes without oxygen – they cannot survive.
The acute warning symptoms are headaches, drowsiness, dizziness, issues in concentration, slowing down of the reaction time – reactions of the cognitive system.

However, when you have chronic oxygen depravation, all of those symptoms disappear, because you get used to it. But your efficiency will remain impaired and the undersupply of oxygen in your brain continues to progress.

We know that neurodegenerative diseases take years to decades to develop. If today you forget your phone number, the breakdown in your brain would have already started 20 or 30 years ago.

While you’re thinking, that you have gotten used to wearing your mask and rebreathing your own exhaled air, the degenerative processes in your brain are getting amplified as your oxygen deprivation continues.

The second problem is that the nerve cells in your brain are unable to divide themselves normally. So in case our governments will generously allow as to get rid of the masks and go back to breathing oxygen freely again in a few months, the lost nerve cells will no longer be regenerated. What is gone is gone.

— — — I do not wear a mask, I need my brain to think. I want to have a clear head when I deal with my patients, and not be in a carbon dioxide induced anaesthesia.

— — — There is no unfounded medical exemption from face masks because oxygen deprivation is dangerous for every single brain. It must be the free decision of every human being whether they want to wear a mask that is absolutely ineffective to protect themselves from a virus.

For children and adolescents, masks are an absolute no-no. Children and adolescents have an extremely active and adaptive immune system and they need a constant interaction with the microbiome of the Earth. Their brain is also incredibly active, as it is has so much to learn. The child’s brain, or the youth’s brain is thirsting for oxygen. The more metabolically active the organ is, the more oxygen it requires. In children and adolescents every organ is metabolically active.

To deprive a child’s or an adolescent’s brain from oxygen, or to restrict it in any way, is not only dangerous to their health, it is absolutely criminal. Oxygen deficiency inhibits the development of the brain, and the damage that has taken place as a result CANNOT be reversed.

The child needs the brain to learn, and the brain needs oxygen to function. We don’t need a clinical study for that. This is simple, indisputable physiology. Conscious and purposely induced oxygen deficiency is an absolutely deliberate health hazard, and an absolute medical contraindication.

An absolute medical contraindication in medicine means that this drug, this therapy, this method or measure should not be used – is not allowed to be used. To coerce an entire population to use an absolute medical contraindication by force, there must be definite and serious reasons for this, and the reasons must be presented to competent interdisciplinary and independent bodies to be verified and authorised.

When in ten years, dementia is going to increase exponentially, and the younger generations couldn’t reach their God-given potential, it won’t help

https://www.bitchute.com/video/Blzj0nJFEnpZ/

171555 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to JohnMac, 18, #274 of 2225 🔗

I have seen the effects of hypoxia on brain function, albeit from obstructive airways disease, but cognitive decline is notable.

As I’ve written before, perhaps this is the intention-to make us all compliant and cognitively challenged.

171590 ▶▶ Tommo, replying to JohnMac, 8, #275 of 2225 🔗

Very interesting video. I wonder if this has been – or could be – confirmed by other neurologists? It so, and information could be shared widely, a lot of people would think twice about putting on a mask. It’s such a strong argument – depriving your brain of oxygen, which may have long term consequences – that surely people would stop putting a damn mask on. Who wants to damage their own brain?

171613 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Tommo, 5, #276 of 2225 🔗

Zombies.

171618 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to JohnMac, -5, #277 of 2225 🔗

This I find concerning but not for the reasons most people would think. Hypoxaemia can lead to hypoxic brain injury, without a doubt but patients with severe COPD depend on the hypoxic drive to breathe, where supplemental oxygen will kill them.
What is bothering me somewhat is the implication that breathing with a mask on is effectively rebreathing all of your own exhalations. However, I don’t think it is a problem as portrayed in this piece as it overlooks some important details.
If a child goes into respiratory arrest then mouth to mouth resuscitation is started, with exhaled air is blown into the child. This air still contains 16% oxygen, although there is an increase in CO2, it is still effective to maintain brain function. Secondly the masks are not impervious, on the outside there is air with 20% oxygen and negligible CO2, on the inside there is a gas mixture with 16% oxygen and a higher concentration of CO2. Without any pressure from breathing, Oxygen would diffuse inwards due to the partial pressure difference and CO2 would diffuse outwards for the same reason. When a person breathes in a partial vacuum exists pulling air in, thus there’s sufficient oxygen inflow through the mask, particularly if the wearer is mouth breathing.

171656 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to p02099003, 5, #278 of 2225 🔗

Her point is that the triggers that normally occur for heathy breathing are changed by restricting air flow if done over enough time. A trigger to breathe from carbonic acid is trained out of free divers. So much so that they have to often use memory cues to rebreathe.

That’s her point. Not so much that breathing the atmosphere back in will cause short term harm. More that the cues can readjust which for adults isn’t that much of an issue. It seems to be for kids who aren’t born at altitude.

171658 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to p02099003, 4, #279 of 2225 🔗

Good point which I’d overlooked, but, the person whom I mentioned was dependent on an oxygen canister,connected via nasal tube.

Presumably the oxygen delivery is set at a critical level so as not to inhibit the hypoxic drive.

As has also been raised ,involuntary inhalation of particulate matter could well have an adverse effect on lung function, so all in all,when we also consider halitosis,dermatitis, gum disease, light headedness, sweating and dry eyes, there really isn’t much to recommend masks is there?

The only areas where they should be mandatory surely , is in an industrial setting-masons and miners,operating theatre staff-although this is now being challenged- workmen using high speed drills, carpenters using wood saws,divers and lab staff and other workers in biohazard areas.

Finally, mouth breathing is not generally recommended,from what I’ve read.

171704 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to p02099003, 8, #280 of 2225 🔗

If a child goes into respiratory arrest then mouth to mouth resuscitation is started, with exhaled air is blown into the child.

This is an acute situation.

However ‘ chronic oxygen deprivation’ when children or adolescents wear masks for extended periods of time result in the damage as explained by Dr. Margarite Griesz-Brisson

In addition mouth breathing, that happens when wearing a mask, as opposed to nose breathing (required for good metabolic functioning) has other negative impacts on health. One of them is the development of the face/jaw of children – jaws are narrower and teeth more compacted.

171710 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Victoria, #281 of 2225 🔗

Adenoids?

172793 ▶▶▶ Splendid Acres, replying to p02099003, 1, #282 of 2225 🔗

Mouth breathing, aye.

That’s what people do when they are short of breath.

172803 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to p02099003, 2, #283 of 2225 🔗

And it’s mouth breathing that causes the rotting of teeth and increase in bacterial load due to the reduction in saliva.

171672 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to JohnMac, 2, #284 of 2225 🔗

Great post

171939 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to JohnMac, 6, #285 of 2225 🔗

I posted this same piece yesterday and, apart from Richard O, got lots of replies arguing for wearing scarves etc. instead of masks.. People are free to do what they think best but given the political purpose of face-covering, I don’t agree that wearing something that isn’t a mask to cover your face is any kind of solution. It may not even be that much healthier anyway!

Anyway, I’m very glad that today is a new day and that this has now got better attention from LS. Thanks, JohnMac, for posting it again. My view is that it’s a very important article/video which needs as wide a circulation as possible and here, for any doubters, are the doctor’s qualifications:

Henna Maria: Dr. Margarite Griesz-Brisson MD, PhD is a Consultant Neurologist and Neurophysiologist with a PhD in Pharmacology, with special interest in neurotoxicology, environmental medicine, neuroregeneration and neuroplasticity. MW

172415 ▶▶▶ JohnMac, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #286 of 2225 🔗

Hi, I didn’t know you’d posted it, or I would have acknowledged you! But, as you say, it’s worth re-posting.

It seems to me that parents, in particular, need to send this expert’s analysis to their local schools, and to other parents as well.

As you say, she knows what she’s talking about.

171552 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 10, #287 of 2225 🔗

The new Shuttlecock advice line for worried cancer patients and their families: Please listen carefully and choose one of the two options:

to speak to an advisor, press 1;
to arrange an appointment press 2.

Option 1) : you are now number 5,000 in the queue; please continue to hold.

Option 2): there is no one available to take your call; please call back later. Alternatively, call 111 for advice.

Please check on local call charges before contacting us.

What’s not to like?!!!

171574 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to wendyk, 12, #288 of 2225 🔗

How can Wancock still be in office after his comments yesterday?

171601 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to PoshPanic, 2, #289 of 2225 🔗

Blind leading the blind?

171623 ▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to PoshPanic, 5, #290 of 2225 🔗

When faced with a chance to debate the Corona virus act. Our pathetic parliament failed. When faced with a chance to repel the rule of 6. Our pathetic Parliament failed us. You are safer to assume they pretty much think Wankcock is a star to be followed….

171665 ▶▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Leemc23, 2, #291 of 2225 🔗

He’s the Pied Piper of malevolence, leading them all off a cliff.

171568 calchas, 5, #292 of 2225 🔗

https://off-guardian.org/2020/10/06/another-10-experts-questioning-the-coronavirus-panic/#comment-253180

Great comment here regarding Michael Moore’s film ‘Planet of the Humans’ and the Great Reset.

171575 reason, replying to reason, 7, #293 of 2225 🔗

I don’t laugh much these days but reading the comments section of The Mail I just had to chuckle. Handycock referred to as Lt Gruber from Allo Allo. I knew he reminded me of somebody!

171598 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to reason, 5, #294 of 2225 🔗

Yes, but Gruber was likeable.

171609 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #295 of 2225 🔗

Agree. It’s most unfair on Gruber.

171614 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to reason, 7, #296 of 2225 🔗

Are we to assume covid is the fallen Madonna with the big boobies??? The mcguffin

172052 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to stefarm, 3, #297 of 2225 🔗

No but officer Crabtree made more sense:Good moaning.

171578 AidanR, replying to AidanR, 8, #298 of 2225 🔗

It must be Gell Mann Amnesia day, because I’ve just seen an ‘IT professional’ who advocated using Access call someone who used Excel an amateur…. LOL

Technician, heal thyself.

171589 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to AidanR, 1, #299 of 2225 🔗

Well his basic point is correct (no pun intended) , but yes it would have been a bit better if he had used a more modern alternative. Replace “MS Access” with “Azure Event Hubs” and his point still stands.

171616 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Recusant, 3, #300 of 2225 🔗

Obvs his defence to that would be that in the period he’s referring to, the cloud was something that rained on you, and azure was the colour of the sea around Nice.

MS SQL, Oracle or DB2 would have been fine even 25 years ago, though.

171626 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Recusant, 4, #301 of 2225 🔗

Aficionados of the Curse of Excel may like to know that it has become necessary to rename certain human genes such as SEPT1 and MARCH1. It seems that when you enter these names into an Excel spreadsheet it automatically and inescapably replaces the names with “01/09/2020” and “01/03/2020”.

171632 ▶▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Richard Pinch, #302 of 2225 🔗

Now I know why I use Linux.

171634 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Richard Pinch, 3, #303 of 2225 🔗

‘Format’ solves that.

171649 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 1, #304 of 2225 🔗

In the current context, not using a spreadsheet as a database solves that.

171643 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #305 of 2225 🔗

The same thing happens with train codes or hex numbers with E in them. An auto conversion that takes a deep dive to switch off. And even then

172149 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Richard Pinch, #306 of 2225 🔗

Couldn’t you just set the cell format to text? Maybe not in some versions of Excel.
Anyway, when I worked in engineering people would use Excel by default because it was what they knew and was readily available. One of the mathematical bods wrote a report “Dangers of Spreadsheets” pointing out that for more complex problems it’s much better to use specialist mathematical software such as Matlab or MathCad. He presented an example of numerical solution of a differential equation where Excel fails to achieve the desired accuracy and is a fairly ludicrous tool for such a task – like a dog walking on its hind legs, it can be done but isn’t what it was designed to do.

171619 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to AidanR, 1, #307 of 2225 🔗

Haha. I’m no IT professional, but at a previous job my department used Access for a few of our databases. The IT department who were IT professionals were reluctant to support us with it so we had to maintain them ourselves. There was often maintenance required… I therefore thought the same when I read that section!

171630 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to AidanR, #308 of 2225 🔗

In my day Oracle would have done it. Are they still around?

171637 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Thinkaboutit, 1, #309 of 2225 🔗

Indeed they are. And possibly the most malevolent IT vendor around, to boot.

171660 ▶▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to AidanR, #310 of 2225 🔗

It’s an aggressive world, IT.

171812 ▶▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to Thinkaboutit, #311 of 2225 🔗

In my day punched cards!

171652 ▶▶ Arkansas, replying to AidanR, 1, #312 of 2225 🔗

It depends on whether his point is ultimately “same amateur person should be using a more appropriate amateur tool” or “different professional person should be hired to use a professional SQL engine”. You could argue either way. But “amateur person should use a professional SQL engine”, without previous experience, would be worse than using Excel perhaps.

171722 ▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to AidanR, 2, #313 of 2225 🔗

Has anyone seen a description of what the Excel ‘database’ is doing? I find it hard to believe it is the central operational data base rather than a reporting tool.

171780 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Andy Riley, 1, #314 of 2225 🔗

Or just a csv extract used to push into a SQL Database. My guess is that the labs upload their results from a csv/xlsx file to a shared portal.

The labs would have verious processes between them for collecting data and so to then align them would be a lot of pain. Easier just ask them to convert their results to a csv and upload. At that point they can be clensed and uploaded to the database.

The 16,000 rows limit is particularly strange however. So I’d have to guess that was an issue with whatever integration tech they used to create the staging tables for uploading to the final database.

This is pure speculation from me of course.

172017 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Bruno, #316 of 2225 🔗

Although maybe happens all the time in private sector too. I well remember one big US investment house ( no longer with us) coming to grief after setting up in London in 1986, because they hadn’t set up systems able to cope with all the zeros needed for trading Italian lire. Big losses.

171586 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 6, #317 of 2225 🔗

https://twitter.com/Covid19Crusher/status/1313752123625082881 “To give a sense of the pandemic burnout speed in a heavily hit country: Peru has halved the number of patients hospitalized in 50 days.
This is interesting. In cases, the first dip is false or wrong reporting of cases, as one can see increasing hospitalization. But the quick dip in hospitalizations is remarkable. It looks like a burnout with a quick fall. This in a country with a military lockdown in March/April with mask/visir mandate etc. The whole thing looks like an unmitigated pandemic curve.

171819 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, #318 of 2225 🔗

… as everywhere.

172004 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to swedenborg, 1, #319 of 2225 🔗

I know you’ve heard me say it before; it’s the viral mutation causing loss of virulence.
It happens everywhere….
All the lockdowns / masks etc have zero impact on the uniform virus kinetics that we see everywhere.

(My supposition is that Covid-20/21 is available for deployment if required, as Gates kindly informed us.)

172021 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Kevin 2, #320 of 2225 🔗

Please link to more than one case cited as a source of evidence for viral mutation leading to loss of virulence.

172181 ▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Bruno, #321 of 2225 🔗

One case wouldn’t demonstrate anything, of course.

I have to say that the loss of virulence is my own hypothesis.
But I’m sure it is one that is shared by many more qualified than myself.
I believe it is the only plausible and rational explanation for the disease kinetics observed in almost every country. Specifically, an initial, rapidly accelerating mortality incidence, peaking after about 6-8 weeks. This being followed by a steady sustained decline. And the peak (at least in most of Europe) had been passed with deaths already declining before lockdowns were instituted (and long before masks were adopted).

As we have been constantly told over the last few months, seroprevalence studies show only small percentages having antibodies with the implication made that the majority of a population remain susceptible because. Well, if that were the case then one would expect a much more sustained mortality over a longer period of time.
Other factors play a part obviously (including increasing host resistance as the HIT is approached, and the possibility of a seasonality component).
But these cannot explain the fast mortality reduction, which is observed in most countries.
The virulence reduction hypothesis is, of course, a work in progress. And the huge and powerful lobby attempting to control the narrative will steadfastly deny it. This will make further clinical research on this hypothesis difficult to fund, difficult to undertake, and difficult to report.

A key study text, however is this one:-

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31757-8/fulltext

“In summary, ORF8 is a hotspot for genetic variation in coronaviruses. The clinical effect of deletions in this region appears to be a milder infection with less systemic release of proinflammatory cytokines. Further study of these variants could improve our understanding of SARS-CoV-2 virology and pathogenesis and could have implications for the development of treatments and vaccines.”

172970 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Kevin 2, 1, #322 of 2225 🔗

The mutation that Lancet article is referring to happened in China in January 2020 and has not become especially dominant.

There is one known mutation that has called D614G which makes the virus more infectious and the same fatality. That one has become dominant everywhere but started doing that some time ago (also around January IIRC).

Lots of other mutations exist and it takes much longer to prove any effect they have on virulence. But most of them are very small and don’t appear to have been naturally selected.

What causes the drop-off in numbers of deaths everywhere is herd immunity. What causes the apparent drop in CFR is just more testing.

You’re suggesting that because seroprevalence is low the drop in deaths can’t be caused by herd immunity. But this is still far more likely than that it’s caused by virus mutation.

Antibody tests are only somewhat indirectly related to whether you were actually exposed to the virus– you may have antibodies from a different virus, or have had SARS2 but beaten it without many antibodies at all, with different antibodies (that you had left over from a recent HCoV) or too long ago such that the particular antibodies the test is looking for have dropped to below the threshold.

But we don’t have to rely on antibodies. The ONS Covid-19 infection survey, which uses the much more reliable PCR test, told us that throughout the summer the prevalence of SARS2 was only 0.05%. It’s now maybe 0.1% or 0.2% or so (unsurprisingly because it’s autumn).

But infections with other similar viruses are at about 10x that level and have been for some time (and so are deaths from flu). If we don’t have herd immunity to SARS2 then why aren’t we catching it any more? It can’t be the masks and crap since we are spreading other things. Unless you’re proposing that it has mutated to become not just less fatal but substantially less infectious. But that would be very lucky and the reverse of the usual process of evolution.

Yes the PCR test (if used and done properly) is the most reliable testing we have. Government Pillar 2 data is junk due to poor methodology (we don’t know whom they’re sampling and there are rumours they use a ridiculously high cycle threshold of 45) but the ONS survey is the best data we have even though it was a day late and a dollar short.

173128 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to guy153, #323 of 2225 🔗

Well, thanks for your reply.

Difficult to respond meaningfully without a few hours additional research.
However, I think a good starting point is to look for parallel processes in the genomic evolution of SARS-CoV-1.
Obviously, a genetically similar pathogen and also likely lab-engineered.

“The gradual deletion of ORF8 constituted the most obvious change in SARS-CoV after emergence.”

“Compared to earlier observations with ORF8-deleted SARS-CoV, our results show a clear phenotypic difference in replication in relevant models of human respiratory tract infection. The phenotypic difference depends on the presence of full ORF8, with enhanced replication as opposed to the deletion variant.”

In other words the later deletion variant has diminished viral replication leading to a hypothesised diminution in virulence.

“When a virus is passed from human to human, the stochastic nature of infection success implicates that inocula just below or above one unit of human-infectious virus are transmitted. For instance, during influenza A transmission in ferrets as few as 2 virus units were transmitted between animals. Under conditions of inter-host transmission, the observed phenotypic differences as observed in our study may have significant effects on viral fitness”.

Hypothesis: This virus remains extremely highly transmissible, but now with a typically extremely low viral infection load.

“Considering the present results, we therefore suggest that the 29 nt deletion in SARS-CoV is the result of a founder effect that has permitted survival in spite of reduction of fitness.”

Hypothesis: SARS-CoV-2 has lost viral fitness, which I will interpret as diminished replication ability. Remains very transmissible.

“Deletions in accessory reading frames were also oberserved in MERS-CoV Transmission of deleted variants was confirmed in an outbreak in Jordan, involving deletions in ORF4a, ORF3 and potentially other parts of the genome The available studies leave it open whether these deletions involved changes of replication level or virulence. However, it is known that ORF4a acts as an effective antagonist of MDA5-dependent induction of type I IFNand that MERS-CoV is highly sensitive against type I IFN in human airway epithelial cultures. Based on these known mechanisms, attenuation rather than human adaptation should be considered.”

Hypothesis: MERS (also lab-engineered) also had ORF deletions which led to attenuation.
“Our data suggest that SARS-CoV has suffered an attenuating mutation by the 29 nt deletion that constitutes a landmark genetic change. The SARS epidemic in 2003 may have taken a more severe course if not involving this mutation.”

Say no more. Hypothesis: Parallel process occurring here.

All quotes from:-

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-33487-8

Herd immunity obviously plays its part, but simply does not account for the lack of a geographical mortality wave.
Using Sweden as the example: Stockholm takes the brunt of mortality and probably reaches the HIT quite quickly. Why no gradual spreading of mortality throughout the rest of Sweden?
Hypothesis: virus itself has attenuated in just a few weeks by selective deletion of ORF, and further geographic spread is characterised by lower virulence.
Yes it takes longer to prove that attenuating deletions have occurred, but that doesn’t mean they haven’t happened..
That’s why it remains a working hypothesis, based on observed epidemiological kinetics at the population level. And based on parallel processes observed in original SARS and MERS.

I think you misunderstand my point about low levels of seroprevalence.
I am not saying that means the HIT is nowhere being reached. I am saying that low seroprevalence is used by those who desire to prolong the fear as ‘evidence’ that the HIT is nowhere near being reached!
They tend to ignore T-cell mediated immunity, which is clearly very important and actually more important than antibodies, in my opinion.

So my hypothesis is that we have a conjunction of a rapidly attenuating virus, along with a quickly achieved collective immunity.
‘Why aren’t we catching it any more?’ you ask. Yes we are catching it all the time because it remains highly transmissible ; but now it is the weak attenuated virus, and new transmissions are typically low viral load (and asymptomatic), and because of loss of viral fitness, host viral replication is greatly diminished, and any of a dozen simple anti-virals (think HCQ and Ivermectin) can knock it out in no time.

PCR is wholly unfit for purpose. So I simply discount it when it comes to trying to understand the changing pathogenicity and transmission kinetics.

The quotes are just from a quick look at one paper. At least for myself, my working hypothesis still stands.
I should add that I do consider this virus to be a ‘designer’ virus, and the characteristics that I have hypothesised about were ‘designed in’, imo.

Regards

173644 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Kevin 2, #324 of 2225 🔗

The 382nt deletion is a very interesting mutation and so are the reasons for the effects it might have. But it isn’t very widespread or dominant, and we would know if it it was, because people are always sequencing SARS2 samples from all over the place to see what’s going on. Maybe if we check again in 1000 years there may be more evidence of natural selection in favour of that strain.

If you completely discount PCR then you’re basically in the dark. It’s also rather irrational to discount it completely. No test is perfect and nothing is certain, it’s all about probability.

How do you “design in” a random mutation that then only pops up several months into the dispersion of the virus?

One thing you could do (in theory but people would have ethical issues with it) is hack the actual virus to make it less virulent but just as transmissible. Then just spread it around a bit. This would be a lot more efficient than trying to vaccinate billions of people by hand with a vaccine that couldn’t replicate. Obviously nobody has fessed up to having done this but maybe it’s a good conspiracy theory 🙂 It would actually work rather well.

173193 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to guy153, #325 of 2225 🔗

What causes the drop-off in numbers of deaths everywhere is herd immunity.

What causes the drop-off is reduced transmission , That may be due to reduced infectiousness for a given contact, reduced number of contacts, or reduced likelihood of a contact with someone who can become infected.

Each of those is a valid hypothesis. We have seen that a mutation can increase infectiousness and out-compete other viral strains (with no loss of pathogenicity). We have seen that reducing contacts reduces transmission, and vice-versa, and it is also likely that some immunity of whatever duration also plays a role in reduction of transmission. The degree to which the last two measures interplay is the trillion dollar question.

173332 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to djaustin, #326 of 2225 🔗

Well – respect and thanks to all, got more than I bargained for there!

171592 Mabel Cow, replying to Mabel Cow, 28, #327 of 2225 🔗

Latest version . I’m trying out the idea of “Show your face” as a call to action.

171597 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Mabel Cow, 2, #328 of 2225 🔗

That is super, really super.

171606 ▶▶ Henry, replying to Mabel Cow, 2, #329 of 2225 🔗

Have you seen the new RBL poppy appeal advert? This is a silent war being fought by our military alongside the public at large.

171607 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Mabel Cow, 2, #330 of 2225 🔗

Oh I like that one! Well done!

171627 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Mabel Cow, 4, #331 of 2225 🔗

‘He fought for your liberty’?

171678 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 4, #332 of 2225 🔗

It was a toss-up between he and your . In the end, I went for he because it seemed more honest.

The soldier in the picture couldn’t possibly have known about me, and probably wasn’t thinking as far ahead as a hundred years. He was probably just doing what he thought was right for himself, his family, and his country. (Unless he was a conscript, in which case it would be entirely wrong for me to assume anything about his motivations.)

I was already slightly uncomfortable invoking the memory of the fallen for my own political ends. Using the word your felt like I’d crossed over to the dark side, into the realm of shameless emotional manipulation. Although to be fair, I’m already pretty close to that line right now.

171681 ▶▶▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Mabel Cow, #333 of 2225 🔗

Or simply ‘liberty’ ?

171713 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Miss Owl, #334 of 2225 🔗

I’ve updated the image so that fought is now in orange.

I’m hoping that the first line now emphasises the action that he personally took, and the use of orange ties his verb to the verbs we are asking the reader to use ( bin , show , end ).

Does his liberty scan better now, or do you still think it should be just liberty ?

171909 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Mabel Cow, 1, #335 of 2225 🔗

I thought just liberty. That way, it’s anyone’s: his, yours, mine, his family, his king, his country: whatever interpretation anyone wants.

Love them though: ‘Bin the mask; Show your face; End the lockdown’. Superb.

171995 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Miss Owl, 3, #336 of 2225 🔗

You have convinced me. Just liberty it is .

Other changes:

  • Fought is no longer highlighted, thus allowing a broader range of interpretations of the first sentence.
  • Lockdown is now lockdowns, in an attempt to address Annie’s point that we’re no longer subject to a single country-wide lockdown.

Just in case anyone wants it, I’ve left the previous version on the site as well.

171690 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Mabel Cow, #337 of 2225 🔗

Good points but the soldier also stands for a generation and he was almost certainly thinking of past and future generations. Excellent poster, thanks.

171705 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 1, #338 of 2225 🔗

Good point. My original idea was “ They fought for your liberty”, to be accompanied by a picture of a group of soldiers.

But then I found the picture that I’m currently using and started down a path of a more individual nature.

I don’t know which is best. Perhaps if someone can post an evocative picture showing multiple soldiers, I can knock up another variation that uses the they+your slogan.

171887 ▶▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to Mabel Cow, #339 of 2225 🔗

Yes, comes across as less confrontational and therefore easier to distribute (nor have posters torn down) and thus reach more people; and perhaps easier to get the point across more gently, therefore more persuasive?

171669 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Mabel Cow, 1, #340 of 2225 🔗

I like “FREE YOUR FACE” better

171718 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Two-Six, 5, #341 of 2225 🔗

I went with “Show your face” because I thought it implied that people were in hiding and that now was the time for them to show themselves, to pick a side, to be seen and heard.

171676 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Mabel Cow, 1, #342 of 2225 🔗

Fantastic!!!

171679 ▶▶ Stephanos, replying to Mabel Cow, #343 of 2225 🔗

Do you mind (I would think not!) if I put this on a T-shirt? I would like to wear it at church. It would be REALLY good for 11th November, I think.

172092 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Stephanos, 1, #344 of 2225 🔗

Please do! All the designs I post to baffledcow.com are free to use for any purpose.

All of the stuff I have on Redbubble is strictly non-profit for me, so I have no worries about people using my designs. I just want the message to get out.

In case you don’t want to create your own t-shirt, the Fight for Liberty design is now available on Redbubble.

171685 ▶▶ Stephanos, replying to Mabel Cow, #345 of 2225 🔗

Actually, it needs to be a bit bigger for a T-shirt and it doesn’t magnify well.
Do you have an A4 version?
As regards the question as to whether he fought for your liberty, I think (actually I am pretty sure), that he did. People of his generation would have known Jesus’ words, ‘Greater love hath no man than this, he lays down his life for another’.

171886 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Stephanos, 1, #346 of 2225 🔗

Have you tried the high-resolution version from my website?

It’s 2875×3900 pixels, which is Redbubble’s recommended resolution for t-shirts.

I can generate a higher-resolution version if you would like.

The text is vector-based and so it will scale nicely to any resolution. However, the photo and the litter-bin graphics are fixed resolution and won’t look any better for being blown up.

171703 ▶▶ annie, replying to Mabel Cow, #347 of 2225 🔗

Not everybody is (technically) locked down at the moment. What about ‘No more lockdown’?

171715 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to annie, #348 of 2225 🔗

Good point. But that buggers up my run of action words down the left. 🙂

171926 ▶▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to annie, #349 of 2225 🔗

All the time there is ANY restriction on our liberties – who we can see, how many of them, where, what we have to wear while doing it – it is lockdown, to some extent or another.

171600 Ross Hendry, replying to Ross Hendry, 3, #350 of 2225 🔗

The Daily Mail reports that an anti-lockdown petition has been started by Dr Sunetra Gupta and two others. Apparently it’s been signed “by at least 50,000 members of the public, 2,500 medical and public health scientists and some 3,200 medical practitioners”.

Does anyone have a link where this petition can be signed?

171602 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Ross Hendry, 2, #351 of 2225 🔗

gbdeclaration.org

171605 ▶▶▶ Ross Hendry, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #352 of 2225 🔗

Many thanks.

171608 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to jhfreedom, #353 of 2225 🔗

What a surprise:” Site can’t be reached”
I will keep persisting though.

171611 ▶▶▶▶ tallandbald, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #354 of 2225 🔗

Works for me..?

171620 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to tallandbald, #355 of 2225 🔗

SUCCESSFUL, MANY THANKS.

171621 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Ross Hendry, 2, #356 of 2225 🔗

https://gbdeclaration.org/

It’s building nicely and getting some MSM publicity.

171640 ▶▶▶ Ross Hendry, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #357 of 2225 🔗

They don’t seem to want to publish the link though!

171741 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Ross Hendry, #358 of 2225 🔗

Keep trying.

171845 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ross Hendry, replying to Fingerache Philip., #359 of 2225 🔗

?

171622 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Ross Hendry, 1, #360 of 2225 🔗

Discussed here in some detail already. TY has signed (as have I). Gupta is a star!

171615 chaos, replying to chaos, 4, #361 of 2225 🔗

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/07/clear-covid-passports-aim-let-air-travellersbypass-quarantine/#comment
The coronavirus passport is being launched by the Commons Project, a non-profit trust, and the World Economic Forum, in collaboration with government representatives from 37 countries.
The first passengers will use it on Wednesday on Cathay Pacific flights between Hong Kong and Singapore.
The first UK passengers to use it will test it next week on United Airlines flights between London Heathrow and Newark Liberty International Airport, one of the major airports of the New York metropolitan area.

171636 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to chaos, 6, #362 of 2225 🔗

I fail to see how this will help in the slightest given that they are using a completely useless diagnostic test. Also, what stops someone contracting the virus within the 72 hours after the test?

If it gets people travelling then great but just one more money making rung in the Covid farce if you ask me. As mentioned by others yesterday, I also fear it would be here to stay.

171644 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Sarigan, 10, #363 of 2225 🔗

They won’t help because it is not about a virus.
Johnson has already told us about moonshot.This is all part of a plan to make us have a digital health passport to access everyday life.
Those who believe this is still incompetence need to wake up

171739 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #364 of 2225 🔗

A very plausible scenario for operation moonshit. A huge amount of people won’t be able to travel, go to the football, get a train, taxi, gig, restaurant, pub, hospital, doctor, dentist because of a deeply flawed test

https://youtu.be/vvPQEjnvqfA

171751 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to stefarm, #365 of 2225 🔗

Designed to fail.Totally unworkable but exchange test for vaccine and it becomes very workable

171648 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Sarigan, 6, #366 of 2225 🔗

This has nothing to do with protecting anybody from a virus or anything else.

Its not just here to stay it will continually grow in scope.

171659 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to chaos, #367 of 2225 🔗

171662 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to chaos, 2, #368 of 2225 🔗

Health Passports for Ireland, Who’s Next?

https://youtu.be/U88ZKJhztiM

The validity of your test will expire and you will need to redo the test to go to green again

Your vaccine status will be kept

https://www.healthpassportireland.ie

  • Ireland began a national trial of their new Health Passport Ireland initiative, which uses an app to track and display results of COVID-19 testing, plus COVID-19 vaccination status, when one becomes available
  • It’s being touted as a measure that increases freedom, but one day, when you head out the door, you may not be able to simply walk into a shop, restaurant or even a doctor’s office or your place of work like you used to, unless you can prove you don’t have COVID-19 and have been vaccinated via your “green” health passport app
  • Expansion plans are underway, and the system will likely soon be rolled out globally, in countries such as Canada, the U.S., the U.K., Germany, France, Italy and Kenya, with other locations following
  • Apps that started out to track your COVID-19 test results and vaccination status could turn into tools of control and power, making it impossible for you to attend school, work or travel unless you have the right color or results

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/10/06/health-passports-for-ireland.aspx

171663 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to chaos, 2, #369 of 2225 🔗

Many people could not understand how the Track & Trace system could cost £10BN. Is it because it is the really the cost for the Health Passport?

The Health Passport — A Green Light for Tyranny?

https://medium.com/@aarondavidsonn/the-health-passport-a-green-light-for-tyranny-545298e108d

171765 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Victoria, 3, #370 of 2225 🔗

Absolutely terrifying. The exact opposite of liberty

171913 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #371 of 2225 🔗

And yet people still cling to the idea that this is all incompetence.
I think it’s because the alternative is both unbelievable and terrifying,but it is happening

172035 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #372 of 2225 🔗

Also terrifying to realise it’s being run by a company, ROQU, run by a chap called Robert Quirke, whose main claim to fame thus far seems to have been running a rock concert in Saudi Arabia.

171735 ▶▶ leggy, replying to chaos, 4, #373 of 2225 🔗

So now we have digital IDs in the same mainstream article along with Commons Project (Rockerfeller) and the WEF – still a conspiracy theory is it?

171930 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to chaos, 1, #374 of 2225 🔗

It’s all being pushed by the WTTC – World Travel and Tourism Council – which is WEF run/infiltrated.

I’ve written to them asking them to supply their science to back-up their “new normal for travel” and justify their letter to Governments but unsurprisingly no reply.

Did write to a few heads of travel companies that “signed” the letter and the CEO of Cunard (part of Carnival who sponsored the WTTC video conference a few months ago) explaining that it was a suicide note for their industry but again, unsurprisingly, no replies.

171624 AidanR, replying to AidanR, #375 of 2225 🔗

If you’re talking about Boris’s speech, you’ve fallen for his ploy. It’s classic Trumpian distraction.

171650 ▶▶ Julian, replying to AidanR, 1, #376 of 2225 🔗

Distraction from what?

What does “Trumpian” mean in this context?

171814 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, -2, #377 of 2225 🔗

What does “Trumpian” mean”

Idiot-child babble.

172369 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Julian, 1, #378 of 2225 🔗

Say something controversial, outlandish or wrong but inconsequential.

Watch all the sheep and pedants flock around that, completely ignoring what’s actually important.

Trump does it all the time.

I think Lynton Crosby has a variant he calls ‘the dead cat stratagem’.

And thus Boris’ speech was a total and utter irrelevance… it’s very cute that he has these green aspirations, but there are very good, very well understood reasons why they are completely unachievable, especially in the timescale he has in mind.

The only important matter at hand is his government’s response to Covid, but everyone’s crapping on about his harebrained green fantasy.

173027 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to AidanR, #379 of 2225 🔗

Ah OK, understood

It’s not important, but I am not sure I would credit Trump with such guile – I think that kind of non-sequitur comes naturally to him

171633 Leemc23, replying to Leemc23, 7, #380 of 2225 🔗

When I was a kid. Trees were rare. Concrete was everywhere, fences were green mesh. Dog Shit was white and you faced a future in the factory, probably social housing and a struggle for the duration and the odd potato waffle to bring you a sense of being upwardly mobile.

Those days were better than this current situation, by a large margin.

171646 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Leemc23, 4, #381 of 2225 🔗

In those days at least you thought you could be upwardly mobile. Now we are all heading downward. All we’ve got to look forward to is turnip picking in the cold and dark.

171677 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Leemc23, 8, #382 of 2225 🔗

I remember not eating vegetables for years. I remember seeing real orange juice for the first time. I remember my town getting its first supermarket. I remember storing phone numbers in my head. I remember the bus costing 15p to get to town and a trip to the cinema costing £2 and a pint costing £1 from a salary of £200 or so per week. I remember British companies like Arcam (now owned by Samsung and made in China) and Scottish made Lyle & Scott jumpers (now made in China mostly). We now make virtually nothing. I would dearly love to use my engineering degree in manufacturing but I have pretty much given up that desire. We make nothing. And now the great reset.. now impossible to deny. Winter and Poverty is coming… say goodbye to holidays abroad. And freedom.

171682 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to chaos, 1, #383 of 2225 🔗

We make the best jet engines in the world. We have more Nobel prizes than any country except USA. Cambridge has more Nobels than any country except USA, (UK obviously), Germany and France.

171732 ▶▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #384 of 2225 🔗

Well we can’t all work making jet engines, can we? And Nobel prizes have nothing to do with the UK having no industry.

171744 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #385 of 2225 🔗

British industry was in decline pre World War 1.look around your house and your car and see if you can actually find anything that is made here by a British company

171733 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to chaos, 1, #386 of 2225 🔗

I think that it was Napoleon who said that China was a “Sleeping giant” and the world should beware “That when the giant wakes, the world will shake”
How right he was.

171918 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Leemc23, #387 of 2225 🔗

Sounds like my area but without the corrugated iron fences around the debris,

171664 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #388 of 2225 🔗

Well another quick answer from a County Council about what information and science they ahem received to justify their parts in lockdowns etc:

This information is not held by the Local Authority. We suggest that you send to Department of Health and Social Care for consideration.”

Same as the borough council so looks like they “are just following orders” as central government not supplied them anything.

I feel an answer to them coming on.

171903 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #389 of 2225 🔗

Yes, this makes sense. UK Column has done a good job in recent news updates of charting the acceleration of the re-structuring of local authorities under the cover of ‘Covid’. I looked for articles on their site and they’re all pre-Lockdown but they still look interesting in that were warning what was coming, just not that it would be under the guise of a public health ‘crisis’.

Although Brian Gerrish seems obsessed by Common Purpose influence (possibly with reason), what is going on is pretty clear: a wholesale bypassing of the democratic process by Central Government’s creation of ’emergency committees’ and ‘forums’ with links to police, military and public utility companies, giving them scarily sweeping powers.

Local councillors are fast becoming irrelevant and we’re not sure that our local ones realise it. While they have their nice safe Zoom meetings to discuss their disappearing budgets and how to keep us ‘Covid Secure’ by petty tyrannies, their looming redundancy is going straight past them. https://www.ukcolumn.org/ MW

172050 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #390 of 2225 🔗

A very pertinent and timely wake up call Miriam, it’s to be yet more concentration of power into a few giant County etc authorities, to be answerable only to Cummings’ and his gang in his NASA control room.

171667 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #391 of 2225 🔗

Just received this from an retired optometrist friend of mine:

OFNC update: Covid-19 funding for optical practices in England

6 October 2020

The OFNC issued an update on COVID-19 payments for GOS providers in England on 4 September, confirming that average GOS support would remain in place until the end of August. Since then, we have continued to negotiate with NHS England on further support for domiciliary providers, and for those fixed practices in deprived areas which rely heavily on GOS income.

NHS England has repeatedly told us it expects to issue further guidance on this and other pandemic-related issues soon – and is aware that the ongoing delay in confirming these arrangements is adding to the difficulties the sector is experiencing.

We have argued to NHS England that in these circumstances, the only fair thing to do is to make further support payments to all GOS contractors for September, in the same way as for August. We understand that NHS England is actively considering this and will confirm the position on September support payments in its forthcoming guidance.

It has been reported this week that Primary Care Support England (PCSE) has told some contractors that on NHS England’s instructions, no further support payments are to be processed this month.

We raised this with NHS England this morning as a matter of urgency, and can confirm it does not mean that NHS England has decided to stop support payments. The ongoing delay in issuing updated NHS England guidance means that any payments relating to September may have to be made retrospectively, rather than as part of the normal round of payments made in October.

This further delay and confusion is adding to the significant challenges facing the sector as a result of Covid-19. We continue to press NHS England to confirm the position on future support as a top priority, and will provide more information as soon as we can.

171758 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #392 of 2225 🔗

Can you paraphrase what that is saying? Is it saying funding for eye surgery is being held up?

171927 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #393 of 2225 🔗

What he told me is it’s payments to opticians/optometrists for NHS eye tests, glasses, frames, lenses etc.

So if you are poor, ill with diabetes etc that gives you the eye tests frequently and been getting these things under the NHS (i.e. subsidised) then the optometrists will be stopping them as NHS is not paying them.

171668 Janice21, replying to Janice21, 2, #394 of 2225 🔗

The twits on the hill to announce further restrictions tomorrow for N.I……..feeling very gloomy today about it!

171752 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Janice21, #395 of 2225 🔗

Me too. They are less than useless.

I have written to my MLA on three occasions over the last 3 months specifically asking him to find out the PCR CT being used locally, and if the FPR is being tracked. And to publish both.

I don’t expect a response but I wanted to get it to him so that he can never say he didn’t know. I provided him the medical journal evidence. My next email will state that if he doesn’t act on this stuff, he can only consider himself to be complicit and not fit for public office

172115 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #396 of 2225 🔗

You could remind them that Northern Ireland has a reputation for high standards and breakthroughs in medicine and clinical care. And that publishing of the standards used for PCR testing (cycles and FPR) would only further demonstrate such sterling excellence.

Otherwise it looks all a bit like another RHI scandal.

171670 calchas, replying to calchas, 15, #397 of 2225 🔗

I thank God I am already nearly sixty years old.

I pity the young.

171671 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to calchas, 7, #398 of 2225 🔗

Especially the children – the damage being done to them physically and psychologically will haunt them for the rest of their lives.

171700 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to calchas, 6, #399 of 2225 🔗

I’m almost 72 but we can’t lose hope.

171841 ▶▶ CGL, replying to calchas, 2, #400 of 2225 🔗

My teens are pretty depressed now.

172026 ▶▶ Emily Tock, replying to calchas, 5, #401 of 2225 🔗

I have three sons from 17 to 23. They have no hope of finding a job, buying a house, getting married, having kids. The two in uni are having trouble seeing the point of their degrees. The one still in secondary sees no point in pursuing third level and has stopped doing any kind of illustration, which I personally think he is very good at. Basically, they think there is no point to life, and I wake up every night in a cold sweat for their future.

171673 Julian, replying to Julian, 10, #402 of 2225 🔗

Long Covid

Anyone who argues that “Long Covid” is a reason for or factor in formulating public health policy needs to explain to me the following:

1) Clinical definition from some recognised source like ICD-11
2) Symptoms
3) How long is “long”
4) Is a positive PCR test required, if so what are the minimum and maximum lengths of time between test and symptoms
5) How do you exclude other possible causes for symptoms, including previous health conditions of the sufferers?
6) Statistics showing prevalence of “Long Covid” in population, and as % of those tested positive (symptomatic and not), including drop of rates over time
7) Measures of severity (e.g. does it prevent the sufferer from doing normal activities)
8) Comparison of statistics with other simmilar post-viral conditions

If whoever is chatting rubbish about “Long Covid” can’t come up with convincing answers to at least some of the above, how can they can taken seriously?

171689 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Julian, 1, #403 of 2225 🔗

3) Everyone and the kitchen sink knows ‘long’is as long as a piece of string, or if you want to get accurate about it twice the distance from the middle.

There is a NHS(?) PHE(?) Page of info out there to do with Long Covid (not 19?) Being clinically described and named. It wasn’t the most technical of pages. Sorry no link.

171709 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Julian, 5, #404 of 2225 🔗

Post-viral conditions are evident after many viral infections, as Gupta has pointed out several times. Of course, we must ignore Gupta, Heneghan et al, and listen to Devi Sridhar, who I see has put out out her reasoned response to Great Barrington Declaration, giving her slant as someone without a scientific or medical background. If (and that is a big word) Long Covid in a phenomenon, does this mean challenge trials that are about to start for both the Oxford and ICL vaccines are not only morally questionable, but also medically dangerous?

171724 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Julian, 1, #405 of 2225 🔗

9) How any of the Long Covid claims are an argument for lockdowns?

171726 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Julian, 3, #406 of 2225 🔗

I disagree. If you do that, you’re on their territory and they might even be able to create ‘evidence’ to fill in the details. They are, however, unlikely to be quite so diligent in finding the evidence that shows that it’s just the same for flu.

I notice that people round here are wise to the fact that the Covid zealots are jumping to the ‘Long Covid defence’ when even the manipulated data can’t sustain their claims. I think it should be regarded as disingenuous, unfalsifiable, anecdotally-based pseudoscience and simply not accepted in lieu of an argument.

So people with ‘Long Covid’ are feeling ‘unusually fatigued’ and other such nebulous BS. Well I am feeling unusually fatigued, too!

173109 ▶▶▶ Iansn, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #407 of 2225 🔗

council workers no doubt now that they have to return to the office instead of ‘working’ from home

171993 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Julian, #408 of 2225 🔗

There was discussion of Long Covud on More or Less this morning. Seems there is no medical definition for it as it is entirely self diagnosed and reported. ” I’m sure I had the Covid in March and now I’ve got a headache, must be that Long Covid ”

Apparently hair loss is a symptom.

171675 Basics, replying to Basics, 8, #409 of 2225 🔗

Covid19: The New Social Hygiene Regime is Illiberal and a Global Threat To Civil Liberties.

New Culture Forum
Dr Niall McCrae senior mental health lecturer at Kings College London.

Why are so mamy willing to adhere to the whims of authoritarian regime.

“Cultural Maskism”.

https://youtu.be/k69Cd60ZvDc

171723 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Basics, 2, #410 of 2225 🔗

I’ve seen how the Great Barrington Declaration is being called as right wing fanaticism by the doom mongers, written by ‘quacks’, debunked etc.

I really hope it gives confidence for more academics to speak up. Safety in numbers. I am really hopeful for what it can achieve.

171834 ▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #411 of 2225 🔗

They can’t even spell the name of one of the people they’re insulting.

171680 chaos, replying to chaos, 3, #412 of 2225 🔗

I wonder how many suicides will be counted as covid deaths.

171686 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to chaos, 3, #413 of 2225 🔗

I wonder this too. My friend committed suicide in May this year and I wonder whats on his death certificate.

171692 ▶▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to Janice21, #414 of 2225 🔗
171694 ▶▶ calchas, replying to chaos, #415 of 2225 🔗

Multiply the number of suicides by the false positive rate.

Thats the minimum number.

171793 ▶▶ RickH, replying to chaos, 2, #416 of 2225 🔗

… and not just suicides : the comparative yearly figures suggest that all sorts of causes of mortality have been attributed to Covid in 2020.

171683 BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 19, #417 of 2225 🔗

Been banned from a local social media page, led by self declared leaders of the community and lockdown fanatics. It was in response to the cheerleading for my town being placed under strict lockdown with all pubs and restaurants closed, no households mixing etc. My crime? Showing them the data for Covid in our town.

A few CV-19 numbers from the Department of Health published today.

Population: 150,000
Cases last 4 weeks: 1300
Deaths since January: 21
Age 80+ deaths: 18
Age 50+ deaths: 3
Age 50- deaths: 0

All deaths but one occurred up to end of April. No data available on co-morbidities.

Testing in the town increased by 122% from August through September.

Nobody has died since May.

Age expectancy in Northern Ireland is 78

171688 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 5, #418 of 2225 🔗

the facts are a danger to the community

171695 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 7, #419 of 2225 🔗

The last time there were curfews in Northern Ireland it was because the Ra and the Army were shooting at each other. Interesting contrast and yet the same reason: self-inflicted harm

171697 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #420 of 2225 🔗

Was it Belfast Live by any chance? They are scummy reporters on FB

171711 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Janice21, 5, #421 of 2225 🔗

No it was a local group with thousands of followers. Standard stuff but I thought a few head scratching facts might see some come round to questioning the narrative. Even just the basics of how many have died locally and the fact that 85% were over the average life expectancy was too much it seems.

171721 ▶▶▶▶ Janice21, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #422 of 2225 🔗

You never know though, you may just have planted an important seed in a lot of peoples minds so well done!

171698 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 3, #423 of 2225 🔗

Sign up with a different name. If they deny you because of your ip address just use TOR. Keep Battering On! Thumbs up.

171717 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #424 of 2225 🔗

Just what is it your suppressors are seeking to suppress? – a recurrence of the Black Death?

‘Tis a pity you’re banned from their media page because you could pose that question.

171684 Suitejb, replying to Suitejb, 10, #425 of 2225 🔗

I’m sitting in the sun outside our tiny village shop where I help out and the children have come out to play in the little school across the road. Their shouts and laughter are delightful, no masks on children or staff.
I think possibly half the children are playing on the playground in front and half on the field at the back but it’s as normal as anything can be now.

171693 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to Suitejb, #426 of 2225 🔗

Nice!

171719 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Suitejb, 4, #427 of 2225 🔗

Children playing in a playground – a joyous sound I always think.

171734 ▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #428 of 2225 🔗

It is. My place of work is next to a primary school and I can hear the sound of children playing also.

171760 ▶▶▶ DeepBlueYonder, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #429 of 2225 🔗

Yes, one of the loveliest sounds of all.

171775 ▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to DeepBlueYonder, 4, #430 of 2225 🔗

I think so too. Not some misanthropes though. Throughout lockdown the children in my village were playing together on the village green in the long May/June evenings. A gang of about a dozen, aged 4-15. Riding bikes, playing cricket. Nothing untoward. All indoors by about 9:30.

And one miserable fucker in the house bordering the green shouting and saying “you are making my life a misery” and he would call the police. His house is up for sale now. It won’t sell as he is asking way too much money but he needs to go. Miserable fucker. I hope he spends his old age alone, in a puddle of urine, eating tins of cat food.

171707 2 pence, replying to 2 pence, 4, #431 of 2225 🔗

2018
Examine the feasibility of developing a common vaccination card/passport for EU citizens (that takes into account potentially different national vaccination schedules and), that is compatible with electronic immunisation information systems and recognised for use across borders, without duplicating work at national level.
2019/2021
Feasibility study for the development of a common EU vaccination card
2022
Commission proposal for a common vaccination card/ passport for EU citizens

https://ec.europa.eu/health/sites/health/files/vaccination/docs/2019-2022_roadmap_en.pdf

171919 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to 2 pence, #432 of 2225 🔗

plus ID2020 being planned for a few years as well.

171708 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 14, #433 of 2225 🔗

I was in the bank the other day as I had to update ID data for my business. I won’t go into the stupid reason why this was triggered.

Anyway I went in and it was all fine really. Was asked if I was exempt to which I said yes.
What struck me though was that people are just grinding on, I think with the expectation that this will pass. The problem is that it’s been months now of the same stupid things. I think the hope of a return is blinkering people to the bigger picture.

That this is all idiocy. That there are examples of other places that aren’t doing anything. The narrative is now driving reality as can be seen in places like Spain and Italy.

171776 ▶▶ RickH, replying to mhcp, 4, #434 of 2225 🔗

people are just grinding on, I think with the expectation that this will pass”

I believe that you are right, and this sort of compliance and docility is just as dangerous as credulity.

I was amazed a while back when a member of my family – otherwise pretty sceptical and questioning – said that he would accept the snake-oil vaccine in order ‘to just get back to normal’.

171716 calchas, replying to calchas, 4, #435 of 2225 🔗

“It is not surprising that the ordinary person, in general, is much more easily indoctrinated than the abnormal…A person is considered ‘ordinary’ or ‘normal’ by the community simply because he accepts most of its social standards and behavioural patterns; which means, in fact, that he is susceptible to suggestion and has been persuaded to go with the majority on most ordinary or extraordinary occasions.”

William Sargant – ‘Battle for the Mind’

171769 ▶▶ RickH, replying to calchas, 3, #436 of 2225 🔗

Interesting, given Sargant’s sinister interests.

171725 Danny, replying to Danny, 26, #437 of 2225 🔗

Yet another directive sent home yesterday from my daughter’s school. We have already been warned earlier last term not to even think about going on holiday or mixing with other families outside of school, then last week I was confronted by the head for not wearing a muzzle, in the public street outside when I go to pick up. Apparently although not the law, it is “community thing where we work together” I was told.
Now the kids have a activity day this week that we have paid for, offsite. It takes place during working hours and so I have arranged to go in late that day, but for another parent to pick less up when they collect their own. Then…. a new email came home warning parents not to “mix bubbles” and that children must not be picked up by a parent whose child is from another bubble, even though they could then have a play date later that same day.
personally would of course ignore it, but the other Mum is worried and it would be unfair of me to force the issue, so we had to think again.
schools seem to be under the mistaken believe that not only do they control the children in their care, but can dictate to the parents too. As a teacher myself, I wouldn’t dream of telling an adult how to run their life and and their family choices, purely by virtue of the fact that I teach their child.

171730 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Danny, 9, #438 of 2225 🔗

These people are fools and need to be confronted.

171790 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Two-Six, 4, #439 of 2225 🔗

They definitely need to be challenged. It is hard for some parents to feel confident to do that. Hopefully those that can will do, and also those that do, will encourage and support others to feel more confidence.

171797 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Country Mumkin, 2, #440 of 2225 🔗

yes, a very good letter BTW. How horrible for you. Nightmare.
What is wrong with these people?

171808 ▶▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Two-Six, 2, #441 of 2225 🔗

Thank you Two Six.
Yes indeed, what is wrong with them. I thought they cared.

172843 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Two-Six, 1, #442 of 2225 🔗

I was once in a discussion about evil. Some well-meaning but naive person said “Should we send them love?” and the instant reply, put much better than I could have thought of in a few seconds, was: “No! Evil people need boundaries! ” (in other words, confront them every time.

171745 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Danny, 2, #443 of 2225 🔗

The only silver lining to this nonsense is the point my daughter made that children love games with complicated rules made up on the spur of the moment so they are finding it quite entertaining. The poor old parental units less so of course.

171781 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Danny, 15, #444 of 2225 🔗

It’s absolutely awful. I feel for you. I am having the same problems.

  1. Parents being told ‘it’s a good idea to wear masks to and from school to protect the vulnerable’
  2. Today at my daughter’s primary school the teacher welcoming them in had a mask on. That’s definitely not guidance.

I sent this letter in and called in (I was actually in tears on the phone) . I expect I will get deposed. Sad thing is we moved our child to a private school as her special needs required more specialist help and this school is supposed to be very good at it.

_______

Good Morning

I hope you are well today.

As you know from my call today, I’m extremely unhappy about my child being welcomed into school with an adult wearing a mask.

There is no guidance or mandating for this at all. See attached from the government guidance for primary schools.

“Indoor areas outside of the classroom” so that is NOT outdoors. I also attach a screenshot from the guidance.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-in-education/face-coverings-in-education

It also says you can “ask” staff to wear them, so they can say no.

The normalisation of mask wearing is a slippery slope anyway, but for small kids who need facial expression for communication and for those particularly with special needs, they need to feel comfortable coming to school and welcomed by the whole face.

Us For Them who are working hard to enable kids to have normal schooling have useful info on their site about masks too https://usforthem.co.uk/. Please note Us For Them are also asking for names of schools on a weekly basis that are putting in measures that are not part of guidance and asking what those measures are.

Lastly I wanted to mention something about the phrase “feel safe”. It is something many people are using now as they feel such fear, no thanks to our mainstream media and government. It is a psychological construct that infers and plays into fear. It perpetuates fear in adults and if we are not careful will instil fear in children.

Sadly there is a lot of misinformation about cases, second waves and how dangerous Covid is in much of our media. Flu kills more people than Covid and we don’t worry ourselves about that every winter. This is of course a global issue, but we do not need to let it pervade us locally, providing we don’t normalise certain behaviours.

I look forward to hearing from you.

171792 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Country Mumkin, 5, #445 of 2225 🔗

A very good letter.
Why teachers ignore the vital tool of facial expressions especially when dealing with children astounds me.

171806 ▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Silke David, 2, #446 of 2225 🔗

Thank you Silke David. I appreciate your feedback about the letter.

Yes, it astounds me too.

171842 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #447 of 2225 🔗

Good letter. Hope you get a reply and that it will also get them thinking.

172041 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 6, #448 of 2225 🔗

Had a call from deputy head.

They won’t have a masked teacher at entrance. They won’t have any teacher at all now, as apparently the kids know where they are going. So that may be fine.

They confirmed teachers are not wearing masks in school building.

Hooray!

CM
X

171906 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Danny, #449 of 2225 🔗

”Apparently although not the law, it is “community thing where we work together” I was told.”

172103 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Thomas_E, 3, #450 of 2225 🔗

Ask him does that mean he’ll pay your income tax for you? You know a community thing.

172055 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Danny, 3, #451 of 2225 🔗

Danny

Have you been in contact with Us for Them? They want to know of schools imposing these measures

Also, you are not allowed to be approached for not wearing a mask in any setting, let alone a rule like that made up by the head.

Someone shared this with me last week and I found it helpful.

https://www.laworfiction.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Face-Covering-Exemption-Notice-with-Law-Explained-24-July-2020.pdf

I am so shocked by these little hitlers telling us what we can and can’t do out of school.

CM
X

172083 ▶▶▶ Danny, replying to Country Mumkin, #452 of 2225 🔗

Hi CM.
Yes I have contacted them thanks. Was involved in an article they wrote a while back. The thing I find hard in a setting such as my daughter’s primary school, is that I have always been very involved and active there, have a good relationships with the staff, and in general believe that parents should support a school to set a good example to their own children. Whilst I am more than happy to set the door nazi to rights in Tesco who demands I wear a mask, school is a little more delicate. My daughter is thankfully under the age of 11, but I am very concerned as to what will happen if and when she turns 11 and this nonsense is still in place re masks as she will not be complying. I was thinking of a direct letter to the head of whatever secondary school she attends along the lines of…. as the legal parent/guardian of xxxx I do not give parental consent to my daughter wearing a mask for anything other than operating safety machinery in a craft lesson. This is due to serious concerns over mental health and the prevention of anxiety. Any attempt to 0ace a mask on my daughter will be treated as an assault upon her person. Thank you. Or something to that effect. Any thoughts?

172176 ▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Danny, #453 of 2225 🔗

I totally understand about school being delicate. My daughter has only just started at a new one and I’ve probably pissed them all off. I can’t believe they will want any of my skills in future because of it. I feel so sad that I had to push back, but I just felt I needed to nip it in the bud.

I’m not sure the right approach. I would write a letter to a head, but depending on the circumstances, it may not be the right thing to do. It also depends what the head is like and how approachable the staff are.

These are such unprecedented times, I tend to think pushing back in a non-confrontational way trumps everything else at the moment.

I’ve had some success on the letter writing

Got a small win today with school and they have taken the masked man away from the welcome area (the man and the mask!)

My local MP is fighting my corner to get my daughter a dentist appointment.

In all of these interactions, I try to open people up a little.

I have also started a small group near where I live and we are going to start to take proactive actions. Not sure exactly what they will be yet, but I will of course report here in the comments once it starts.

Good luck Danny. Let’s keep talking and sharing.

Best wishes
CM
x

171729 Arnie, replying to Arnie, 27, #454 of 2225 🔗

17 of the children in my seven year olds class have been diagnosed with impetigo. In my opinion this is because of enforced mask wearing.

This is not the schools doing, they don’t enforce masks and indeed do the bare minimum to comply. It’s a good school from that point of view.

The trouble is the parents are forcing the kids to wear masks to and from the school. None of the parents wear masks, and nobody social distances which is great but I’d estimate that two thirds of the kids are made to wear masks as a sign of virtue by their parents.

My child does not wear a mask. I’ve written to the school asking two questions: 1) How is it possible for the kids to be picking up viral and bacterial infections if all the governments guidelines are being followed? (I know the answer, I just want them to know that I know…)
2) Who is liable if my child becomes seriously ill? (It’s the school, the government have legally absolved themselves in the Coronavirus Act.)

My point is not to hurt or damage allies. My point is to try to keep the pressure up in the hope that the staff at the school will feel more obliged (hopefully) to push back against this nonsense.

This problem will only be reversed with people power, one person at a time.

171746 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to Arnie, 10, #455 of 2225 🔗

Someone on here mentioned cases of impetigo the other day as a result of mask wearing. Just horrible seeing kids in masks.

171764 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Janice21, 10, #456 of 2225 🔗

17 children in one class with impetigo is in my experience, unheard of prior to the shit-show.

171787 ▶▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to RickH, 8, #457 of 2225 🔗

I hadn’t heard of impetigo for thirty years since I left school. Turns out most of the other parents I speak to hadn’t either…

171789 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to RickH, 5, #458 of 2225 🔗

Yeah, wow 17 eh….Incredible. This is well worth keeping an eye on closely.

Well not too closely as you might catch it in your eyes.

171786 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Janice21, 3, #459 of 2225 🔗

I had never heard it of it until a few days ago on here.

172001 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Janice21, 4, #460 of 2225 🔗

That was me, my patient was at secondary school, and they said they wore the mask most of the day. Primary school children should not be wearing masks.

171795 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Arnie, 3, #461 of 2225 🔗

So sorry you are experiencing this. I’m experiencing the same too.. see my response below to Danny.

Great note back to the school by the way. Love those questions.

I agree… this will only be reversed with people power, one person at a time.

171802 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Arnie, 7, #462 of 2225 🔗

Last week my neighbor’s lad pulled from his pocket his facemask he wears at school. Still smells of the drink that emptied in my bag he said.. I asked when that was. Two weeks ago he said.

171832 ▶▶ Suzyv, replying to Arnie, 4, #463 of 2225 🔗

And impetigo can develop into a nasty infection. I saw a video of a German Dr saying 3 kids there had now died from wearing a mask. Perhaps this should be mentioned to the next mask zealot.

171838 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Suzyv, 3, #464 of 2225 🔗

Don’t forget those two studies, the former from a Spanish scientist and the more recent one commissioned by a German children’s charity. Both studies found numerous bacteria and fungi on different types of masks. Hence the rise of impetigo, dermatitis, pleurisy, colds and chest infections.

Only a matter of time before we get someone developing a hypoxic or hypercapia attack.

171891 ▶▶▶ RichT, replying to Suzyv, 1, #465 of 2225 🔗

I saw this as well, but could not find any evidence.

171737 Nigel Sherratt, 3, #466 of 2225 🔗

‘Trump health official meets with doctors pushing herd immunity’ A typically biased and misleading headline. The article of course hides the truth well below the fold.

‘Herd immunity is a biological fact so of course we mention it’

171742 Janice21, replying to Janice21, 28, #467 of 2225 🔗

Why oh why are people so ignorant…..the strict mask wearers who believe they may be spreading Covid from droplets coming out of their mouth…….why do they not then question why the PCR test swab has to be shoved way up your nose to penetrate your brain and so far at the back of your mouth that you gag? If droplets come easily from your mouth then why don’t they just test there easily? The stupidity and non questioning from the majority is unreal!!

171748 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Janice21, 6, #468 of 2225 🔗

Yes a simple oral swab should suffice shouldn’t it if we are that infectious

171782 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to stefarm, 6, #469 of 2225 🔗

Also why do they need to magnify what they find to mind-boggling levels to “detect” “IT”.

171816 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Two-Six, 4, #470 of 2225 🔗

I think all of us on here know the answer to that 🤣 we all know the science and have studied the data. The PCR test is what is keeping this whole charade going, this is what the sheeple need to know as they are not interested in reading bar charts and curves.

171949 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to stefarm, #471 of 2225 🔗

They can’t read or do numbers and that.

171943 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Janice21, 4, #472 of 2225 🔗

IMO most of the strict mask wearers’ reasons are nothing whatever to do with any actual beliefs they have about effectiveness and are purely psychological

Swedes have access to the same information we do but almost nobody wears a mask

If it became law, I think many would comply, some for an easy life but others would become zealots

172474 ▶▶ annie, replying to Janice21, #473 of 2225 🔗

An excellent point.

171747 James007, replying to James007, 6, #474 of 2225 🔗

Great update today. That quote from Churchill about experts is very apt.
I think Johnson believes he has become Churchill – leading the nation through a war.
An obvious difference between Churchill and Johnson: Churchill did what he did because he believed it to be right, the threat was real, the action was proportionate. Churchill was honest about the huge costs and sacrifices.
Johnson hasn’t a clue what he’s doing.

171823 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to James007, 2, #475 of 2225 🔗

And also Churchill knew where and when to delegate. Johnson has really done nothing.

171749 Arnie, replying to Arnie, 13, #476 of 2225 🔗

I’ve just written to my local MP (Con, very safe seat unfortunately) to inform him that if he worked for me that I would give him instant dismissal for gross incompetence.

I also informed him that whilst I am a law abiding citizen that I will be ignoring ALL of the coronavirus nonsense unless, using my own common sense, that I felt it should be complied with.

Awaiting a Stasi visit 4am tomorrow morning, lights camera, action…

171756 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Arnie, 6, #477 of 2225 🔗

He does work for you – his constituents.

171779 ▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to calchas, 7, #478 of 2225 🔗

Well I’ve sacked him. For what’s it’s worth. Felt good!

171750 leggy, replying to leggy, 9, #479 of 2225 🔗

Mrs leggy works in a small rural school – they’ve been approaching things as sensibly as possible, it’s far from perfect but no dystopian nightmare either. However, the staff are now all in a panic as it’s been confirmed that Ofsted are planning a visit. They are not due a visit. No prizes for guessing the reasons why.

171757 ▶▶ RickH, replying to leggy, 4, #480 of 2225 🔗

Ofsted are to education what Ferguson is to epidemiology.

171753 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 12, #481 of 2225 🔗

Listening to the car radio. Accidentally tuned into James O’Brien delivering fake news to the public…what a liar – stating it is the law that everyone has to wear a mask in a shop. Absurd and untruthful. No mention of exemptions.

Breath of fresh air when I got to Talk Radio – a beacon of scepticism in a media landscape of lockdown lunacy.

171766 ▶▶ Sophie123, replying to OKUK, 4, #482 of 2225 🔗

He is the absolute WORST

171773 ▶▶ chaos, replying to OKUK, #483 of 2225 🔗

TalkRadio is groundhog day… some enlightenment and awakening amongst lots of propaganda.

171804 ▶▶▶ nottingham69, replying to chaos, 1, #484 of 2225 🔗

Still no Vernon though, even although promises have been give. We want Vernon!

171754 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 9, #485 of 2225 🔗

“the Saudi Arabia of wind”

We all know don’t we? There’s only one ‘Saudi Arabia of wind’ blustering around at the moment and it is that obese, useless, lump of lard who spouts nothing other than copious amounts of wind as soon as he opens that lying mouth of his.

171907 ▶▶ kf99, replying to Harry hopkins, #486 of 2225 🔗

There is a point that we seem to have a lot more windy offshore areas than most countries, and if the wind is more reliable the further offshore you go that reduces the need for energy storage or backup generators.

However that assumes these ideas are actually feasible. The maintenance costs are going to be astronomical. What happened to wave power? Seems a simpler option to me.

172124 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to kf99, #487 of 2225 🔗

‘The maintenance costs are astronomical’ (re: wave power).

171755 RickH, 4, #488 of 2225 🔗

From hero to less than zero in ten months …. for one of our best-loved communicators”

Now – I’ve always thought that this site has some very good information about things.

But that description of Mr Toad was up there with the gold standard of the PCR test. Ask Max Hastings.

171759 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #489 of 2225 🔗

What do you make of this:

http://82.221.129.208/fakesyringe.mp4

171783 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #490 of 2225 🔗

So realistic! To be used by Government officials on TV to prove that they took the jab

171912 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to 2 pence, #492 of 2225 🔗

Glad someone knows something about these things work., good scam for the upper echelons to pretend to get a job and say “see I’m OK”.

171762 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 6, #493 of 2225 🔗

Impact on nature

Is it worth killing 500,000 sharks for covid-19 vaccines?

  • According to conservationists and wildlife experts, the plan to vaccinate the global population against COVID-19 will have a devastating environmental impact, as the vaccine adjuvant squalene is made from shark liver oil
  • To satisfy a global supply of squalene-containing COVID-19 vaccines, an estimated half-million sharks would have to be slaughtered. The added demand could push certain shark species to the brink of extinction
  • Shark Allies has launched a Change.org petition calling for a ban on shark-derived squalene in COVID-19 vaccines, noting sustainable botanical sources are available
  • A 2001 meta-analysis found squalene-containing seasonal influenza vaccine had a riskier safety profile than nonadjuvanted flu vaccine, and squalene-containing H1N1 vaccines distributed in Europe during the 2009 swine flu pandemic were found to cause narcolepsy
  • While evidence is scarce, some studies have highlighted the possibility of squalene inducing autoimmune problems such as arthritis and lupus when injected

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/10/07/how-many-sharks-die-for-squalene.aspx

171915 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Victoria, 1, #494 of 2225 🔗

Saw this a week or so back, it’s criminal. The men in grey suits have got a terrible image problem amongst the public, which doesn’t help the cause, though that is changing slowly.

171962 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Victoria, 1, #495 of 2225 🔗

This is my most strenuous objection to the mass vaccine madness. I already support the Manta Conservation Trust and the Vacquita CPR organisation-(the latter is a tiny porpoise on the edge of extinction,so not related to sharks,but nevertheless).

Shark and ray populations are plummeting already, thanks to over fishing, by catches and Chinese medicine demand.

Will this never stop? Sharks are to be decimated on an even greater scale, just so we can be ‘encouraged’ to accept a dodgy vaccine.

No,no and no.

171771 Arnie, replying to Arnie, 28, #496 of 2225 🔗

The way we are going to make a difference with all of this is one person at a time.

If we all make a point of trying to show just one other person that there is always two sides to an agreement and give them the chance to work it out for themselves.

An obvious start is to share this website.

I walked with a young mum today returning from dropping small person off to school. She mentioned, very cautiously, that she thought there was ‘something not right’ about what the government was doing. I was very gentle and encouraged her to think for herself, that we had all forgotten to do this. I mentioned this website & she asked me to send her some links.

It was amazing to see it suddenly dawn on her! To me she became empowered.

I’ve just had a message from her that simply said ‘Thank you” and about 10 smiley faces.

Keep Battering on folks we can win this!

171809 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Arnie, 15, #497 of 2225 🔗

Yes agree. A number of staff workers/hairdresser/taxi drivers have asked me what I think, particularly about a vaccine. I am a naturally ‘chatty’ person, and I think people tend to open up to us Geordies (I think that’s also confirmed by research in the early days of call centres). There are more sceptics out there than ‘the powers that be’ think, but people are wary about expressing their views publicly. Opinion polls are wrong, as they were on Brexit, and as I think they will be on Trump.

171870 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Arnie, 6, #498 of 2225 🔗

I’m sure that you’re right. My ‘successes’ have been through carefully laying out key facts. No miracles, but definite changes in perceptions do happen. My failures have been from getting too wound up and getting into the area of motivations, and being careless with language – e.g. using the term ‘fascism’ when a precise highlighting of actual deprivations of liberties would have been better.

I think that it’s important here – as others have said – to steer away from other hobby-horses and simply focus on the basic issues, if others are to be persuaded.

171955 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to RickH, 2, #499 of 2225 🔗

I agree but with a caveat – vaccine (my particular hobby horse). There is already a fairly large body of scepticism on that issue. In my view, if ‘we’ can thwart the vaccine initiative, much of the rest of the nonsense fails under the Great Barrington Declaration body of expert evidence.

171902 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Arnie, 2, #500 of 2225 🔗

Fully agree. I was drawn into a conversation yesterday where people were talking about trolling pro-mask groups, trying to preach and convert them. This war will be won with the middle ground, those who are scared and confused by what is going on. I firmly believe that you have to start with the PCR testing. If you can prove beyond reasonable doubt it’s a nonsense, then the whole covid case falls apart.

171772 Silke David, replying to Silke David, 12, #501 of 2225 🔗

Just saw a headline on msn Trust in journalists gone up during c crisis.
Guess who commissioned it: the newspapers!

171784 ▶▶ LS99, replying to Silke David, 3, #502 of 2225 🔗

You reach a point when you know you should really be crying but you just laugh instead.

171826 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Silke David, 2, #503 of 2225 🔗

Probably another rigged survey especially as Defund the BBC campaign has rattled their cage as is declining circulation of newspapers.

171785 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 2, #504 of 2225 🔗

https://twitter.com/plaforscience/status/1313753164806488065
This is a twitter thread explaining the “second wave” in Spain as being a product of economic incentives and political infight between Madrid region versus Central Government. Can’t vouch if this is correct in all aspects as there is a real increase in deaths. Certainly, very strange payments and rapid turnaround of hospital patients. But it doesn’t fit with a real increase in deaths unless these are also overreported. Seems to be a big mess.

171803 ▶▶ calchas, replying to swedenborg, 2, #505 of 2225 🔗

Increase in deaths.

Yes – but from what?

We need to know what usually happens in Spain at this time ofyear.

171860 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to calchas, #506 of 2225 🔗

Very much – and this is yet another ancillary problem. Public Health has been so compromised that there is now no semblance of a rational evidence base for measures taken. Policy exists almost purely in the realm of political justification.

171884 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to calchas, #507 of 2225 🔗

https://twitter.com/ClareCraigPath/status/1313790939983491084

According to Craigh you can’t see not much excess deaths in Spain compared t March.Beware the second graph in log so you don’t get scared!

172920 ▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to calchas, #508 of 2225 🔗

https://mpidr.shinyapps.io/stmortality/ select Spain, choose your gender and age range. This is official mortality data collated by the Human Mortality Database group from official government agencies (including Spain). About an extra 1000 deaths/week based on 2000-2019 reference data.

173025 ▶▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to djaustin, #509 of 2225 🔗

Yes about 1000 but much less than in March.There is also an inbaked excess mortality in Aug due to heat wave deaths in elderly.

173436 ▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to swedenborg, #510 of 2225 🔗

It’s hot in Spain every year though 😉 . The last heatwave of excess mortality in Europe was the summer of 2018. It recorded a Z-score of 6, which is well above normal variation (2) and above the level of concern (4). Data on euromomo.

171879 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to swedenborg, #511 of 2225 🔗

Very interesting. There is certainly something amiss given their steep fall in numbers. I thought they’d changed their focus on PCR ‘cases’ but this sounds just as plausible. It doesn’t look like a natural change at all.

171798 nottingham69, replying to nottingham69, 21, #512 of 2225 🔗

Just had a guy in my office, turned up muzzled. Everytime an individual turns up for the appointment, wearing a face rag I make the same statement. ” Don’t wear that on my account, you are welcome to take it off”.

Without exception so far they accept the invitation with relish. Must be pushing towards 200 now.

People don’t really want to be wearing these rags, in the main the population just goes with the herd.

171837 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to nottingham69, 3, #513 of 2225 🔗

A Waitrose delivery bloke turn up to deliver my shopping in a mask this week – For the first time ever! I remarked upon it and he said oh it’s just me I usually wear one, he then proceeded to say that his glasses keep steaming up, I said as long as they un steam before he gets back in his van. He then went and came back a minute later to deliver an item that had fallen out in the crate -this time without any mask he handed it to me! you have to laugh!!

171805 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #514 of 2225 🔗

UN paper from 1950 clearly stating the Nuremberg principles:

https://legal.un.org/ilc/texts/instruments/english/draft_articles/7_1_1950.pdf

171999 ▶▶ helen, replying to Awkward Git, #515 of 2225 🔗

As discussion about the risks to children’s health/ life becomes more urgent

A question for teachers in German schools (or anywhere), where the education authority insist masks are worn in the class room (depends upon local “case” numbers)

Would you force children in your class to drink a new drink the education authority insists they drink but that is rumoured to possibly have a 1 per million chance of being fatal to a child?

171807 annie, replying to annie, 41, #516 of 2225 🔗

Just got this off my chest. Don’t except any response, of course, but feel better for having said it.

Dr Frank Atherton
Directorate for Health Policy
Cathays Park
CF10 3NQ

Re: compulsory face masks in Wales

Dear Dr Atherton

On 14 June 2020, you advised that face masks were of little benefit in combating Coronavirus.  In accordance with this, face masks were not compulsory in Wales except  on public transport.

On 14 September 2020, face masks were made compulsory in all inside spaces in Wales, except schools and places where people were eating (although not when they were not eating).

There are two possible conclusions from this:

  1. Your opinion of face masks changed between 14 June and 14 September.
  2. Your opinion of face masks did not change, but your advice was overridden.


In the first case, I should like to know on what grounds you changed your opinion. I can nowhere find as much as a link to a statement that you had done so. I should like to see, or be referred to, the detailed and peer-reviewed scientific studies which convinced you that compulsory face masks had a beneficial effect. In particular, I should like to see the evidence that Coronavirus infection increased more rapidly in Wales than in England, where face masks had been compulsory for six weeks previous to the Welsh mandate – ample time for the difference, if any, to become apparent.

In the second case, I should like to know what evidence, or interests, caused the Welsh government to override your opinion, and how you reacted.

I should also like to see the advice that was sent to employers about risk assessments for the effects on staff of prolonged mask wearing, and also the warnings to staff about the deleterious impacts of such wearing, together with advice on the legal redress available to individuals who can prove that mask wearing has had an adverse impact on their physical and/or mental health.

Before the mandate, perhaps one in ten persons in Wales wore a mask voluntarily.  Obviously this was their own choice, made after due consideration of the risks as understood (however inaccurately) by them. Most people continued to behave normally. The mandate changed Wales at a stroke from a place where people were able to lead a reasonably normal life (albeit within the manifold constraints of ‘social distancing’) to a dreary Gehenna inhabited by miserable, shuffling, faceless zombies.  Meanwhile, ‘cases’ (the new, dishonest word for positive tests) continue to rise. There has been no demonstrable benefit from the mask mandate.

I should like to know how you reconcile this appalling and useless dehumanisation with the principle of ‘doing no harm’.

Yours sincerely…

171822 ▶▶ l835, replying to annie, 4, #517 of 2225 🔗

Perfect! Hope you get a reply, and best wishes fro the peoples republic of Denbighshire!

172094 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to annie, 1, #518 of 2225 🔗

Great stuff Annie. It’s the legal aspect and risk assessments for prolonged mask wearing that seem to be ignored that is nuts. It seems all businesses are afraid of is Covid-19 liability for not implementing measures and yet haven’t looked at if they are covered for injuries due to these measures. Plus if the councils are forcing it on businesses then they should be liable for damages.

There’s a shitshow brewing and it won’t be blown away by any raft of windfarms

171813 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 10, #519 of 2225 🔗

Having an interesting day so far. Actually got reply from Central news so just net them an answer, copied to Toby:

Their e-mail:

Dear MR XXXX,

Thank you for your email of 4th October and I am sorry to hear of the abuse you and your wife have received for not wearing a mask, it must be very upsetting. I know that not everyone is required to wear a facemask.

We have covered stories about the difficulties that wearing a mask pose for those with a hearing impairment, but you are right we haven’t featured a story about abuse faced by those with who can not wear a mask and this is something we could consider, do you live in the Central News region and would you or your wife be willing to talk about your experiences? Don’t worry if you don’t feel able, we can also discuss this with disabled groups who regularly advise us on our output and we may be able to do something with them.

As to our report, this was about people being abusive to business owners. No-one should be abusive and business owners are required to make customers/clients aware of the regulations. I know many people are scared at the moment and we should all be a little kinder and more understanding.

I appreciate you taking the time to write, and once again I am sorry that you have to suffer abuse at this most difficult time.

Kind regards,

XXXXXX

171817 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 11, #520 of 2225 🔗

My answer copied to Toby:

Ms. XXXXX,

Thank you for your reply.

My wife and I do live in the Central News area but are not comfortable appearing on a TV interview as what we have experienced is nothing compared to others such as we’ve not been threatened with being stabbed, had our businesses threatened with closure for not obeying rules because we helped a pensioner in obvious distress and allowed them to sit down and got reported to the Police for breaking the “rules”, had our spouses come home in tears and shaking from the abuse they received and so on.

We know how to handle ourselves, lots of others do not.

If you want to contact people who have had worse experiences than ours then contact Toby Young (cc’d on this e-mail) and ask him to post where to send their experiences to and put a post on the website he runs called

lockdownsceptics.org

just read some of the comments going back weeks and months to see the many examples of abuse that is ongoing on a daily basis all over the country.

You are also incorrect on one very important point:

“business owners are required to make customers/clients aware of the regulations.”

In the legislation on only 3 persons are legally allowed to question someone about not wearing a mask/face covering and these are:

  • an on-duty police officer
  • an on-duty CPSO
  • a health officer

and the only answer that the challenged person is legally obliged to answer is “I’m exempt”.

That is it.

After this the business owner and the person challenging them are liable to prosecution under disability and equalities legislation and can be fined as a business and as an individual.

I did include an explanation of the law and gave links to a legal website that explains all this very well in my original e-mail. Do you require them again?

While you are thinking of what other reports about this situation then here are a couple of points to ponder and ask “why are the MSM not reporting this?”:

I received a FOI request answer from yourselves Reference FOI-1240596 and it stated that a positive PCR test means nothing medically.

The actual quote: “SARS-CoV-2 RNA means the RNA is present in that sample at that point in time. It does not mean that the patient has the novel coronavirus (COVID-19).”

It also linked to a document that in conclusion stated that the PCR tests being used are unreliable, had high false positive rates, could not be verified against an actual confirmed case of covid-19 and had not been verified in a medical or hospital setting.

So basically as admitted by the DHSC answer Reference FOI-1240596 you are using tests that are “unreliable” to say the least, have no reference standard to double check the accuracy against and that have results that means nothing medically.

Full correspondence available.

So why are the Government (not just here but worldwide) pretending something different?

2nd point:

CMO Chris Whitty on the 21st July 2020 stated :

“If you look at the R, and the behaviours, quite a lot of the change that led to the R going below one occurred well before, or to some extent before, the 23rd, when the full lockdown started.”

Why was he not challenged on this at the time by anyone on the Committee?

Why is this statement not being reported by ANY media outlet?

This one comment totally undermines and destroys the whole narrative of “following the science” to justify population lockdown and proves Sweden, Tanzania and Belarus among a very few others followed the correct course and 2000 years of medical experience dealing with these types of illnesses was the correct “treatment protocol”.

This, in effect, means that “the virus” infection rate was dropping drastically BEFORE the incarceration of the population started and that the existing precautions – wash hands properly, coughing etiquette, stay at home if you feel ill – were effectively controlling the spread of “the virus”.

It also means that the peak of the infections occurred PRIOR to the population incarceration commenced and as the average time from catching “the virus” to death has been widely stated as 23 days with the peak numbers of deaths occurring approximately 10-14 days from commencement of the incarceration it means that the imprisonment of the population and destruction of the economy has had NO effect whatsoever.

Here is a link to a video I had made for me by parliamentlivetv of the relevant section of the committee hearing:

https://1drv.ms/v/s!Agv7JEO8MngCiSmT-rY5ChSI9LV-

It’s 23 MB so too big too e-mail.

You can download it yourself on their website – set the start time at 10:58:00 and end time as 11:01 – their instructions are easy to follow.

Again, this is a pretty damning statement and blows all arguments for lockdowns of any description apart so why is Government pretending otherwise?”

We’ll see if they request anything from Toby or the commenters on here.

171830 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #521 of 2225 🔗

Bloody marvellous, Sir. Everything needed to stop this shit show is there in one exchange. Will it make mainstream news? We all know.

Blessed be the Git, for he smiteth them with his Awkwardness.

171896 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #522 of 2225 🔗

Amen,

172204 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Awkward Git, #523 of 2225 🔗

AG, where can we find that FOI response please?

172564 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to leggy, #524 of 2225 🔗

Which one – the DHSC one about PCR tests or the one from the council about the legislation and it being done to avoid paying compensation?

Post which one in tomorrow’s comments and I’ll put a onedrive link on as I’m signing off soon and if a new page is put on at night I don’t return to yesterday’s page..

171815 chaos, replying to chaos, 4, #525 of 2225 🔗

Do you think Gates is just angry that most people torrented his software? What a frightening creature he is.

171821 ▶▶ calchas, replying to chaos, 9, #526 of 2225 🔗

“Gates was small for his age and was bullied as a child”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gates

That fear and humiliation has perhaps never been forgotten.

171861 ▶▶▶ Ross Hendry, replying to calchas, 3, #527 of 2225 🔗

Even other kids could suss that he was a obnoxious little brat.

171863 ▶▶▶▶ tallandbald, replying to Ross Hendry, 5, #528 of 2225 🔗

You spelt twat wrong.

171844 ▶▶ John P, replying to chaos, -2, #529 of 2225 🔗

If that was true he wouldn’t have spent the last 25 years being the richest man in the world.

171853 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to John P, #530 of 2225 🔗

Hell hath no limits.

171935 ▶▶▶ RichT, replying to John P, 2, #531 of 2225 🔗

Microsoft Windows was always the inferior operating system, well up to Windows 2000 anyway. Windows 3.1, 95, 98 and especially the totally broken junk ME, were horribly unstable (I got paid well to constantly reinstall them for people).
They got their act together for XP (a slightly more friendly and compatible version of 2000) finally adopting the NT core. Windows 10 works very well, but is still bloatware with an added sprinkle of spyware to boot.
How did they corner the market?, maybe affordability and lack of rivals in the Intel X86 market (Linux was really horrible to use).

171988 ▶▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to RichT, #532 of 2225 🔗

DR-DOS from Digital Research was an early rival to MSDOS and was superior. It has been likened to VHS v Betamax. Search on YouTube for some explanatory videos. Digital Research developed CP/M for 8 bit machines in the 1970’s.

172040 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to RichT, #533 of 2225 🔗

They had a licencing deal with Intel which meant that if you bought a PC you effectively had to pay for MS-DOS even if you didn’t want it. Companies found it cheaper to ship with the OEMs rather than offer a choice. That said, Escom shipped with both Win 95 and OS/2, but they were pirating it and eventually got sued out of existence.

172311 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to RichT, 1, #534 of 2225 🔗

There hasn’t been anything to beat XP IMO.

171916 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to chaos, #535 of 2225 🔗

Microsoft Windows is dreadful anyway. Once I started using MacOS I vowed never to go back.

171818 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 19, #536 of 2225 🔗

What has been very pernicious throughout the whole thing has been the attempts to maintain the fear by the media/government every time something positive or counter to the fear narrative has been raised:-

Healthy children are more or less unaffected – suddenly we get Kawasaki disease mentioned to put fear for the children back.

The vast majority of people survive – we get “Long Covid” mentioned so just because people aren’t dying it doesn’t mean it’s not serious.

Herd immunity may be building and be the real answer rather than a vaccine – we get stories of someone becoming re-infected (debunked I believe).

The number of deaths has dramatically decreased – they stop talking about daily death numbers and talk about “cases” instead.

As it is the vulnerable at risk I won’t wear a mask because my health is my choice – they say you don’t wear a mask to protect yourself but to protect others therefore you don’t get the personal choice.

171828 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Achilles, 3, #537 of 2225 🔗

Very serious. People turn Kawasaki Green with Kawasaki disease. Then they go Kwackers. Then they die. Kwacker Zed’s dead baby. Kwacker Zed’s dead.

171862 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to chaos, 2, #538 of 2225 🔗

They even claim a new Kawasaki type disease in adults is being picked up

171894 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to chaos, 3, #539 of 2225 🔗

I thought Kawasaki was a type of motor bike?

171831 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Achilles, 3, #540 of 2225 🔗

So you’ve noticed? 🙂

Actually – it’s amazing how many simply don’t see the simple fact that something stinks of rotting fish. “2+2=1?” The arithmetic of Airstrip One.

171850 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Achilles, 1, #541 of 2225 🔗

Exactly. Nothing can be allowed to lessen the fear and the need for extreme measures.

171820 AnotherSceptic, replying to AnotherSceptic, 13, #542 of 2225 🔗

Just read this snippet & Thought that I would post this, from the dictatorship that is Scotland.

“The average number of daily cases rose from 285 two weeks ago – when the ban on indoor household visiting was introduced – to 729”

So, am I wrong in thinking that the stupid rule of not being allowed to visit other households, is NOT working?

I would post the link from where that came from, but it’s a shitty biased rag website.

It’s time for Nicola to fuck off with her stupid dictatorship measures now & just let us all get back on with thing’s, like life.

171881 ▶▶ jb12, replying to AnotherSceptic, 4, #543 of 2225 🔗

‘It would have been worse without the measures’ comes the reply of the never-wrong psychopath.

171911 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to jb12, 3, #544 of 2225 🔗

Yes, you can never win these arguments. However bad it might get, and whatever madness is implemented, they can always claim that things would have been even worse if they didn’t do it. There’s a name for this type of argument, but I can’t remember it.

171825 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 22, #545 of 2225 🔗

I absolutely love this response to more fear-mongering from our MP about cases in Uttlesford and Epping rising to the highest level in Essex:

However, the hospital admissions remain low on covid cases. Plus the PCR testing has so many flaws I don’t know where to begin. How about you start doing your job and helping those in need in your community like the elderly and children. I can send you all the data if you wish to educate yourself on issues in care homes and schools! Oh and thank you for your generic email regards your party and the disproportionate coronavirus bill, nice to know you don’t care. Have a good day.

171937 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to kh1485, 5, #546 of 2225 🔗

And, gloriously, the MP is getting an absolute monstering. Good.

172484 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to kh1485, 2, #547 of 2225 🔗

Your tail seems to be up again, KH! So glad!

171827 Sarigan, 7, #548 of 2225 🔗

https://twitter.com/Mark_J_Harper/status/1313552698667606017

MPs who ask reasonable, considered questions about the Govt’s strategy should not be accused by Ministers of wanting to “let the virus rip”. We want the Govt to succeed in driving down this virus with evidence-based policies, scrutinised by Parliament, that actually work

171829 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 13, #549 of 2225 🔗

Justs net a clarifying request to the councils that said “we have no information, contact the lot in London”

“Thank you for quick reply, it was much appreciated.

I am confused though by your answer.

I received a previous FOI request answer from a local authority about a different matter and this is what it said (my highlighting):

Your request for clarification does not take into account the following:-

·       Coronavirus Act 2020

·       Health Protection (Coronavirus) Regulations 2020

·       Health Protection (Coronavirus, Business Closure) (England) Regulations 2020

·       Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel) ( England) Regulations 2020 (and amendments)

·       Health Protection (Coronavirus, Public Health Information for Passengers Travelling to England) Regulations 2020

·       Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) (England) Regulations 2020 (and, prior to that, the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020) and amendments

·       Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) (No. 3) Regulations 2020 and amendments

All of the above legislation imposes powers on various public sector organisations including Public Health England, local authorities, police, immigration officers and central government. Additionally, some of the legislation above sets out in law requirements of, or restrictions on, individuals and businesses.

The above is the various pieces of legislation that that Council are using to enforce any measures they want to enact.

In this guidance from central Government:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/containing-and-managing-local-coronavirus-covid-19-outbreaks/covid-19-contain-framework-a-guide-for-local-decision-makers

the responsibility and onus is put upon local authorities which have power to enforce environmental and public health laws plus other public bodies to initiate and enforce local restrictions up to and including restricting population movements and social interaction, closing whole business sectors and enforcing various pieces of “guidance” that has no legal force in law using the legislation mentioned above.

So are you really telling me that the council has received no justification for any lockdown or other restrictive measure, no scientific evidence either from central Government or from your own research, has no proof whatsoever that any measure that is put in place is actually justified medically or will actually work?

So are you really telling me that the council’s stance is “we are just following orders”?

This is legally called the Nuremberg Defence and is not acceptable as a defence in law.

NurembergPrinciple IV – from the UN Principles of International Law Recognized in the Charter of the Nürnberg Tribunal and in the Judgment of the Tribunal 1950:

“The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him.”

Will post any reply or answers.

171889 ▶▶ annie, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #550 of 2225 🔗

Aaaaakward Giiiiit, will you marry me?

And Oliver Cromwell shall dance at our wedding.

172016 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, #551 of 2225 🔗

Got an answer back – same a before:

Council does not hold any information regarding your request .

Please re-direct to XXXXXX County Council as previously advised

So confirms they are just following orders.

171835 l835, 2, #552 of 2225 🔗

Ear worm

Whenever I go shopping, I can’t help mis-hearing a line from Oasis’ ‘Don’t look back in anger’ … “take that THING from off your face” just goes round and round in my head…

171836 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 2, #553 of 2225 🔗

ZERO! Yes, That’s ZERO! Sweden Update | Carl Vernon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTe0k5_v0Q4

171849 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Victoria, #554 of 2225 🔗

But it’s because they are different than us/did actually lock down (DELETE AS APPLICABLE ACCORDING TO THE ARGUMENT YOU WISH TO MAKE)

171854 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Achilles, #555 of 2225 🔗

Ha. That is the most pathetic argument you hear.

Voluntary lockdown. What even is that?

171895 ▶▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #556 of 2225 🔗

There’s so much strange COVID terminology now. I can’t keep up.

171929 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 5, #557 of 2225 🔗

I’m in Sweden at the moment

A lot of them worked from home and avoided crowds and travel and many still do

Just as happened in the UK before our lockdown

I think they are overreacting and there has been harm to the economy but it was their free choice,
apart from a limited number of legally binding restrictions

The difference in the quality of life and how it feels here is immense

The key thing is that the relationship between government and the people seems broadly one of mutual respect rather than fear and loathing

And they are not waiting for a vaccine or going for zero Covid or moonshine testing

171921 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Achilles, #558 of 2225 🔗

Or is it because they all live in log cabins miles from each other? Somebody who’d never been to Sweden told me, so it must be true!

171855 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Victoria, #559 of 2225 🔗

It’s not possible to do a Sweden elsewhere immune systems everywhere else have evolved to be as useful as a gall bladder.

171899 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #560 of 2225 🔗

You have a good point – collective immunity may well have been severely damaged by this shit-show.

171839 chaos, replying to chaos, 5, #561 of 2225 🔗

Boris doesn’t do detail. Thank goodness Carrie, Bill Gates, the WEF, Goldman Sachs, et al will do the detail for him.

171994 ▶▶ Rod Jones, replying to chaos, #562 of 2225 🔗

Actually, if you look at his speech to the UN last summer, Johnson was fully on board with the whole World Economic Forum / Trilateral Commission agenda. He used all the buzz words and phrases – 4th industrial revolution etc. He is utterly committed to the institution of Technocracy. The ‘bumbling Boris’ spiel is an act.

171840 John P, replying to John P, 2, #563 of 2225 🔗

Question:

Does anyone here still think a Corbyn Government would have been worse?

171843 ▶▶ chaos, replying to John P, 3, #564 of 2225 🔗

Davos pulls the strings regardless of party. Left right.. only 17 MP’s voted against the rule of six.

171866 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to John P, 1, #565 of 2225 🔗

No I don’t anymore.

171871 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to John P, 1, #566 of 2225 🔗

Who knows but funnily enough it could have gone the other way. Because the Tories reputation is looking after the economy and not caring about people they’re happy to trash the economy to show they care. Labour on the other hand have the opposite reputation so may now have been trying their best to get the economy going to avoid the usual criticism. The problem would have been the unions not wanting to go back to work though. To be honest I don’t think it would have made the slightest difference. This situation is beyond the intellectual capabilities of any of our elected representatives to deal with properly.

171872 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to John P, 2, #567 of 2225 🔗

Its hard to tell. They would have done broadly the same but the conservatives might have either opposed or lied low.

171874 ▶▶ Mark, replying to John P, 4, #568 of 2225 🔗

Pretty indisputable, given their approach throughout has been to criticise the government for not panicking harder.

Indeed Corbyn was part of the howling mob that pushed the government away from the sane, traditional response planned in early March, which amounted to the Swedish policy. This was howled down as “social darwinism”, “putting a price on life”, and having “an acceptable level of deaths” by, supposedly, “heartless right-wingers”.

We are still trying to find a way to return to rationality in discussion of the core concept of herd immunity, as a result of that hysteria.

171922 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to John P, 1, #569 of 2225 🔗

I think it would have been no different. Labour in “opposition” had long argued for a harder lockdown so perhaps it could have been worse, we would be on par with the Democratic People’s Republic of Victoria or the Spanish Democratic Republic.

Either way we would have been screwed anyway.

171975 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to John P, 1, #570 of 2225 🔗

The question presumes that the government is in charge of the response

172139 ▶▶ bucky99, replying to John P, #571 of 2225 🔗

Yes. We’d have been in the same position (albeit without masks) even if Covid hadn’t turned up.

171847 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 17, #572 of 2225 🔗

In addition to the dreadful face nappy scenario in shops, OH and I are sick and tired of hearing the announcements on tannoy systems, proclaiming all the ways in which that particularly company is making it safe for us to shop.
The voice tends to be that of a woman, no matter what shop or supermarket it is and is always done in such a patronising tone of voice (or should that be “matronising”?)

Did Jacob Rees-Mogg get his nanny to do a “job lot” of recordings?

171924 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Margaret, 1, #573 of 2225 🔗

Agree. Everytime I go to Morrisons and hear that sort of announcement, it makes me want to slit my wrists.

172489 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bart Simpson, #574 of 2225 🔗

Slit somebody else’s. A zombie’s.

171852 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 18, #575 of 2225 🔗

https://twitter.com/ElijahSchaffer/status/1313706131659853826 “NEW YORK: Orthodox Jews burn a pile of masks in protest against the continued lockdowns in the city 2000 BC it was a burning bush, but in 2020 masks will have to suffice Amazing.How will this end?

171857 ▶▶ chaos, replying to swedenborg, 4, #576 of 2225 🔗

With new masks from China.

171878 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to swedenborg, 6, #577 of 2225 🔗

Superb work, this is the kind of action we need a lot more of.

171885 ▶▶ annie, replying to swedenborg, 4, #578 of 2225 🔗

May Yahweh reward them.

171898 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to swedenborg, 7, #579 of 2225 🔗

what a great act – and maybe on Guy Fawkes night we could make a bonfire out of masks and burn Doris and the cock – maybe chuck the goblin on there for good measure

171954 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Major Panic, 3, #580 of 2225 🔗

Spoilt for choice for the guy

171973 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to swedenborg, 3, #581 of 2225 🔗

That is real religious leadership

172081 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to swedenborg, 2, #582 of 2225 🔗

It was Yon Kippur recently. Spending all day in a synagogue on a fast relating your sins for the year probably isn’t helped with muzzles.

171859 zacaway, replying to zacaway, 8, #583 of 2225 🔗

Just to take your mind off Covid, in other news the Commons has voted to allow the state to rape and murder us with impunity:

Should the Food Standards Agency be permitted to engage in torture in order to put a stop to the sale of horse meat? Should the Gambling Commission have the authority to issue licences to its agents to commit murder with impunity?

That would be the astonishing outcome were the Covert Human Intelligence Sources (Criminal Conduct) Bill, which passed its second reading in the House of Commons yesterday, to be enacted in its current form.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-terrifying-consequences-of-the-licence-to-kill-bill

How have we got such lunatics running this country?

171908 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to zacaway, 2, #584 of 2225 🔗

Don’t worry agents of The State are KIND.

171865 nocheesegromit, replying to nocheesegromit, 11, #585 of 2225 🔗

Just seen on Guido Fawkes that my home MP voted against the rule of 6 last night. It’s taken him a very long time but he is finally doing something useful!!

171893 ▶▶ RickH, replying to nocheesegromit, 2, #586 of 2225 🔗

Overall the vote (or lack of) showed how useless parliament is as a safeguard of liberty.

I always turn to the 17thC and the Putney Debates to see what real, intelligent democratic argument is.

Of course – that initiative was also repressed and snuffed out in the end.

171867 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #587 of 2225 🔗

For my own interest, I wanted to find hospital admissions for Flu in a normal year. Have to say, I still have not found a comprehensive UK dataset (does anyone have one/a source?). However, I came across the following article in Telegraph of 3 January 2020. Salient point is that up to end December 2019 (that being part-way through the Flu season which normally peaks December to March) hospitalisations in England were 3152 vs 331 in the previous year, a very good Flu year). As of yesterday, across the UK there were 2833 patients ‘with covid’ and 496 patients ‘admitted with covid’. As we know, the aggregate numbers include many who were already in hospital for other conditions, who then tested positive. It therefore seems plausible that the supposedly escalating hospitalisations data is in keeping with normal Flu admissions.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/01/03/hospitalisations-flu-10-fold-higher-last-year-official-figures/#:~:text=The%20numbers%20hospitalised%20dropped%20slightly,last%20year%2C%20the%20figures%20show .

171905 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to PoshPanic, 1, #589 of 2225 🔗

Thanks. I’ve been through this data series, but have not seen/cannot find hospitalisation stats.

172075 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #590 of 2225 🔗

I was also looking for them, so the typical seasonal curve could be seen.

171873 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #591 of 2225 🔗

At last the musicians are waking up:

https://twitter.com/ClassicFM/status/1313509168221913088

However I think their protest would have been much more effective had they not been muzzled and not social distancing. And I think this is too little too late, many orchestras jumped on the BLM bandwagon but were silent on the assault of our civil liberties and right to make an honest living.

171959 ▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #592 of 2225 🔗

I actually wrote to them this morning, asking if they saw the disconnect between this and the fact that their actual presenters are taking taxpayers’ cash to spout the government’s drivel (as well as the endless patronising government ads). I got an auto response saying they’ll get back to me within 15 working days. I’m not holding my breath.

172031 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Miss Owl, 1, #593 of 2225 🔗

They won’t. I wrote to them back when they had that BLM post on their Arsebook page and yep, never got a reply.

Have stopped listening to them since.

172236 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #594 of 2225 🔗

On Facebollocks I have various friends (actual) and “friends” (FB only) who are musicians mostly in the jazz and improvised music scene so they get even less recognition than those in the classical scene. Anyway their online posts suggest that they are beginning to wake up but still seem to be asking Sunak for money rather than demanding the return of live music. One has taken matters into his own hands by becoming a delivery driver.

172949 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Edward, 1, #595 of 2225 🔗

Its funny how they think that the solution is to ask for more money than to follow Van Morrison’s lead to campaign for the end to social distancing, masks, etc and reopen all venues.

And they don’t seem to realise either that with more redundancies and bankruptcies – spending money going to concerts and gigs won’t be high on the list of the vast majority of people.

171875 nickbowes, replying to nickbowes, 5, #596 of 2225 🔗
171888 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to nickbowes, 5, #597 of 2225 🔗

good advice for anyone stupid enough (or forced) to download the damn thing

171876 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 7, #598 of 2225 🔗

Is this a real problem? Many concerns, think about mobile testing schemes i.e. in prisons with 100 % asymptomatic and other mass testing away from hospitals. Masks does not stop aerosol transmission into test kits.

https://twitter.com/ClareCraigPath/status/1313723950762020866

 “Who tests the testers? 3 months shedding of RNA is well established and CDC now saying airborne. Contamination by testers is likely a real problem. We need COVID RNA free chain of evidence (inc delivery men).”
“I wonder if this could be an explanation for situations like this (Spain), where 90% of the residents of an elderly persons’ care home tested positive but only 10% of those testing positive were symptomatic, which would be surprising with older adults” “Agreed that 90% asymptomatic in the elderly would be very odd. Also, 10% symptomatic due to other causes entirely believable

171880 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to swedenborg, 1, #599 of 2225 🔗

Damn, scrub everything, we’ll have to re-do all the tests to date…

171883 ▶▶ annie, replying to swedenborg, #600 of 2225 🔗

Wow! That’s a really good way to boost the terror statistics!

171882 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 12, #601 of 2225 🔗

BBC R4 Today Programme.
Liz Truss faced 2 challenges.
“There are suggestions that the harm is not being done by the terrible Pandemic but your governments response in dealing with it”

“You say ‘some people say we’ve gone too far with lockdown . . .’
3,000 leading experts worldwide are hardly ‘some people’ “.

Response inconclusive, no follow ups.

171980 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to karenovirus, 1, #602 of 2225 🔗

I think it’s part of the problem that we place emphasis on who is making the argument and not what the argument is. We end up discussing qualifications rather than addressing the pertinent points.

However, the government made that particular bed (perhaps intentionally) when repeating the mantra “follow ‘the’ science.”

171890 theanalyst, replying to theanalyst, 5, #603 of 2225 🔗

Confirmatory Re-Tests

Just noticed that NHS Western Isles do use additional tests to identify ‘false positives’ – see link to their Facebook post below. This does not however lead to a retrospective change in the volume of ‘cases’

https://www.facebook.com/NHSWesternIsles/posts/1663969400445841

Also noticed that Nottingham University Students are being ‘instructed’ to book a confirmatory test via gov.uk if their first swab test proves positive. This particular University would never advise this unless they knew Pillar 2 swab tests were unreliable…Nottingham Uni are very good with this sort of thing as they gave 13 of their own PCR machines to the government back in March.

Do you think the government will be as open as NHS Western Isles and publish the results of the Nottingham University confirmatory re-tests on a Facebook page? I don’t.

171904 ▶▶ RickH, replying to theanalyst, 9, #604 of 2225 🔗

The problem is that it’s not necessarily ‘confirmatory’ at all. The identification of two irrelevant RNA strands on two separate occasions at a Ct of 35 still doesn’t indicate a real viral infection.

Two/three/four turds are still shite – not a gold standard.

171901 Old Mum, replying to Old Mum, 6, #605 of 2225 🔗

Neil Oliver on Talk Radio today – so much common sense!

171944 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Old Mum, 3, #606 of 2225 🔗

Yes – that’s true. But he was still voicing the idea that this is some extraordinarily dangerous virus.

Which it isn’t by any rational analysis.

172319 ▶▶▶ Old Mum, replying to RickH, 1, #607 of 2225 🔗

I think you can tell the sceptics – making sensible arguments but with the proviso that the virus can be dangerous (albeit to a limited demographic) otherwise they could sound like they are ‘non-believers?

171956 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Old Mum, 1, #608 of 2225 🔗

I posted his last interview with Mike Graham on fb at the weekend. I could listen to him all day long – such a wise man.

171910 JHuntz, replying to JHuntz, 31, #610 of 2225 🔗

Sorry all, call me a sceptic convert but the media are right about this long COVID. I’ve been suffering from it for about the last seven months now. The symptoms being that there is absolutely nothing to do and i’m bored out of my mind!!!

171992 ▶▶ Basics, replying to JHuntz, 4, #611 of 2225 🔗

Another symptom is making very dróle comments.

172104 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Basics, 3, #612 of 2225 🔗

C-19 symptoms are hard to tell from a hangover too.

172343 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to JHuntz, 1, #613 of 2225 🔗

We’re all suffering from that! 😅 😅 👍

171914 Will, replying to Will, 5, #614 of 2225 🔗

Is it true that hospitals receive extra revenue for every covid patient that is admitted?

172014 ▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Will, 5, #615 of 2225 🔗

I suspect so. I posted the following comment on the BBC back in August (can’t remember where I got the information from). Got plenty of downticks, which is a good thing on either the BBC or the Grauniad:

Meanwhile, Australia has admitted that it gets cash from the WHO for every death attributed to C-19. A$25k per death, if reports are to be believed. Now the US has admitted much the same: Adm. Brett Giroir from the US Health and Human Services Department has conceded that there is an economic incentive for hospitals to inflate their coronavirus fatalities.

172340 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Will, 2, #616 of 2225 🔗

In America they do and I recently heard it happens here as well. Obviously there is an incentive to record Covid as the medical complaint. Open to fraud on a large scale!

171920 James Marker, replying to James Marker, 16, #617 of 2225 🔗

One of the many good things about the Great Barrington Declaration is that it gives the lie to the notion that the government is “following the science”. It is not: it is following one strand of scientific opinion. The question is why is this government kowtowing to those scientists whose policies will lead to the greatest amount of economic and collateral damage? It is truly baffling, particularly when the data recorded on the government’s own website clearly show there is no second wave in respect of serious illness and fatalities – a ripple maybe, but that is only to be expected. Boris could learn a lesson from Micheál Martin.

172003 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to James Marker, 3, #618 of 2225 🔗

Yes, I agree. It’s also great to have a short and succinct summary of the ‘anti-lockdown’ scientific view. It’s much easier to spread the message with this than it is by sharing many different interviews and articles. It’s a great starting point for a non or partial sceptic, especially as it is from very well respected people.

Many on here would probably go further in scrapping COVID measures than this declaration recommends. I probably would. But the most important part of it to me is that the measures recommended in this declaration are clearly stated to be voluntary.

171923 Coronamoana, 22, #619 of 2225 🔗

I’m just reading Animal Farm for the first time. The animals are building a windmill. Hmmm I’ve heard something about that recently. Now what was it?!

171928 Nobody2020, 7, #620 of 2225 🔗

The article on Aussies in Victoria heading to the beach made me think.

One of the arguments against herd immunity is that it would be immoral or unfair to isolate older/vulnerable people. But this is effectively what is happening in Australia, albeit with a different objective in mind.

The state of Victoria is being isolated from the rest of Australia in order to suppress the virus and stop it from spreading to the rest of Oz. But somehow this is not immoral or unfair even though Victorians are being subjected to what can only be described as punishment.

171933 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 7, #621 of 2225 🔗

One statement from this report drew my attention:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54440392

Both NHS managers and unions have warned that staff are on their knees after six months of fighting the pandemic following one of the most difficult winters in a generation.

This week NHS Providers chief executive Chris Hopson warned that staff were “exhausted” and “traumatised” by what had happened this year.

Is that just a bit of an exaggeration?

171936 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Tenchy, 10, #622 of 2225 🔗

No different than the rest of us. They should receive no special treatment.

171951 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Tenchy, 14, #623 of 2225 🔗

How can they be ‘exhausted’ and ‘traumatised’ if hospitals were never overwhelmed? I acknowledge that NHS workers see some pretty dire things on a day-to-day basis but they should know what they’re signing up for when they agree to work in the health service.

171987 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Poppy, 8, #624 of 2225 🔗

Spoke to a completely life dedicated cancer ward nurse yesterday. They are a good friend too.

Completely exhausted, worn down, sick to death, fed up by the scam of it all. Closed off into their own tiny routine of work sleep work sleep. No news watched, nothing else. A total revulsion at what has been going on. Not healthy or looking good in the longer term for my friend.

This isn’t the sort of trauma or exhaustion they are flinging money after of course. I am sure their are many similar NHS minions who are in a similar situation.

~ Yes, the Great Barrington Declaration has been sent and Dr Reiner Fuellmich Crime Against Humanity news was related.

172000 ▶▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Basics, 4, #625 of 2225 🔗

There are people in different professions that have been run off their feet over the last few months, with little rest. I get the impression that a lot of spongers and time wasters aren’t helping.

172010 ▶▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to Basics, 1, #626 of 2225 🔗

Interesting, I hadn’t thought of it that way, thanks for sharing.

171952 ▶▶ Nic, replying to Tenchy, 7, #627 of 2225 🔗

At least they still hav a job.

171960 ▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Tenchy, 6, #628 of 2225 🔗

I suspect they’re on their knees because it’s part of their latest dance routine. They’re doing less work than normal, how otherwise could they be exhausted?

171968 ▶▶ Andy C, replying to Tenchy, 2, #629 of 2225 🔗

This is what they signed up for when applying for the job. We all have busy periods in our roles.

171974 ▶▶ Liam, replying to Tenchy, 3, #630 of 2225 🔗

They’ve got a bloody nerve. Lazy, useless fat bastards.

171978 ▶▶ MizakeTheMizan, replying to Tenchy, 12, #631 of 2225 🔗

Wife is a pathologist. Daughter is a nurse. They both come home moaning about being ‘bored shitless’.

171989 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Tenchy, 4, #632 of 2225 🔗

There are a whole set of people in medical jobs who use and abuse it. They come up with all sorts of emotional trauma situations and it is supported by the NHS. In a private job they would have been fired long ago.

My wife deals with many like this in her job. Institutionalised whingers.

Also not a popular viewpoint but borne out by the data and my wife’s experience: The NHS is staffed with a large majority of women. So the whinge factor is quite high.

172062 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Tenchy, 3, #633 of 2225 🔗

Um, “ six months of fighting the pandemic following one of the most difficult winters in a generation” … are they in Australia? I was under the impression the last six months covered spring and summer, with a bit of autumn.

172102 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Tenchy, #634 of 2225 🔗

Worn their legs to stumps with all that Tik Tok dancing.

171934 PoshPanic, replying to PoshPanic, 15, #635 of 2225 🔗

I’m working on some animations at the moment and have played with the gov data from yesterday, while I’m at it. I’ve uploaded a rough visualisation here, if it’s of use to anyone..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpN-YA9NqzA

171940 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to PoshPanic, 2, #636 of 2225 🔗

Thanks. An excellent animation.

171947 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to PoshPanic, 5, #637 of 2225 🔗

Looks fantastic! Illustrates better than anything how we are in the middle of a ‘testdemic’ right now. This should be all over the front pages of the MSM.

171972 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Poppy, #638 of 2225 🔗

Thanks Poppy. I will try and get a couple more variants out later in the week

171957 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to PoshPanic, 1, #639 of 2225 🔗

It’s brilliant. Well done.

171971 ▶▶ Quernus, replying to PoshPanic, 1, #640 of 2225 🔗

Excellent representation of a casedemic in action – thank you!

172057 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to PoshPanic, #641 of 2225 🔗

Very well done , congratulations and I wish it could find its way to Chateau Sturgeon!

172067 ▶▶ ikaraki, replying to PoshPanic, #642 of 2225 🔗

Excellent work!

171941 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 17, #643 of 2225 🔗

I asked the BMA this (amongst other things) a few months go:

“I am struggling to understand why GP surgeries, dentists and hospitals are insisting on face coverings to be worn on their premises under your seeming authority or recommendation when the list of premises that remain excluded under the relevant legislation and where face coverings are not required are:

  • Premises (other than registered pharmacies) providing wholly or mainly medical or dental services , audiology services, chiropody, chiropractic, osteopathic, optometry or other medical services including services relating to mental health.

I look forward to your reply. I am positive it will be most enlightening.”

Unsurprisingly they did not answer.

As far as I know the law has not changed – still no legal requirement to wear a mask/face coverings in dentists, hospitals etc. so why are they insisting?

171981 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #644 of 2225 🔗

Seems odd for them to be exempted, as they are the only places where you might possibly suggest them out of an abundance of caution.
Laworfiction probably has the full list and says whether the law has changed since last week.

172122 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Youth_Unheard, 3, #645 of 2225 🔗

No – the above are still outwith the law along with:

  • premises providing personal care and beauty treatments (hair salons, barbers, nail salons, massage centres, tattoo and piercing parlours)
  • premises providing veterinary services
  • visitor attractions and entertainment venues (aquariums, adventure activity centres, indoor sports stadiums, funfairs, theme parks, skating rinks, bowling alleys, indoor play areas including soft-play areas)
  • storage and distribution facilities

So no need to wear a face covering in the hairdressers or nail bars as I’ve told my wife but as they keep insisting she won’t go until they do.

172114 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #646 of 2225 🔗

I ventured to a surgery once, I used a scarf, which made me anxious and I could hardly breathe. The reception was empty so I pulled it down, When I FINALLY got a receptionist to attend to me,
You need to over your face! But there is no one here! You need to pull your scarf up!
Obviously I won’t go to a surgery for years to come again.

171942 nickbowes, replying to nickbowes, 22, #647 of 2225 🔗

Johnson, Hancock, Whitty, Valance, Ferguson. These are the first five up on my imagined Nuremburg type trial at some future date . May these creeps never rest for the rest of their miserable lives, may they live each minute each hour looking over their shoulders; may they one day face justice.

171950 ▶▶ Nic, replying to nickbowes, 6, #648 of 2225 🔗

And Edmonds

171953 ▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to Nic, 11, #649 of 2225 🔗

And Sturgeon

171965 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Poppy, 4, #650 of 2225 🔗

Definitely; I’ll go in the witness box to nail her.

172388 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to wendyk, 1, #651 of 2225 🔗

I think I’d go to hell and back to nail any of them.

172834 ▶▶▶ MRG, replying to Nic, #652 of 2225 🔗

I did it nearly a month ago, so a bit dated:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3NZrq8uRHg

171986 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to nickbowes, 5, #653 of 2225 🔗

They will never face justice. The only reason the Nazis faced justice is because they lost and the winners meted it out. There will be no winners or losers here, nor any moment of victory. The best we can hope for is a return to normal but if you’re looking for justice you’ll be disappointed.

172099 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Achilles, 1, #654 of 2225 🔗

Pols losing office will be punishment enough for them.

172268 ▶▶ Edward, replying to nickbowes, 1, #655 of 2225 🔗

They will escape having to face justice. But if there is a UK public enquiry into Covid-19 and the government response, I would like to see a parallel unofficial enquiry assessing the same evidence plus any further relevant information. An unofficial enquiry obviously would have no power to get its recommendations accepted but it would still be a useful exercise to counter the official narrative.

172556 ▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to nickbowes, #656 of 2225 🔗

I could get behind that!

171945 T. Prince, replying to T. Prince, 20, #657 of 2225 🔗

Latest from Simon Dolan….

We are pleased to announce that on the 5th of October, the Judge agreed to an Interim Injunction Hearing. This is our Court hearing to try to get the latest regulations thrown out. We have been given the date of the15th of October with no further opportunity for delay from the Government.

The Government have until Friday the 9th to file evidence.

171963 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to T. Prince, 3, #658 of 2225 🔗

So, will this be ignored by the press?

171969 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to PoshPanic, 1, #659 of 2225 🔗

What do you think?

171946 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 20, #660 of 2225 🔗

KBF ;message from Simon Dolan: Judge has approved interim injunction for 15th October.

171948 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to wendyk, 2, #661 of 2225 🔗

Oops…Great minds Wendy!

171964 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to T. Prince, 1, #662 of 2225 🔗

Yes! Synchronicity!

171958 Samhurt, replying to Samhurt, 12, #663 of 2225 🔗

Never thought I’d be thinking about voting for this man, but here we are. (And Twitter really is the Party, isn’t it? Censorship makes my skin crawl).

172013 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Samhurt, 8, #664 of 2225 🔗

Trump is THE man to lead the world out of this nightmare!

172095 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Samhurt, 4, #665 of 2225 🔗

Some research on Bidens, Clintons and Obamas will make you feel much better about DJT ( faute de mieux ).

172188 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 2, #666 of 2225 🔗

Regarding Biden, I happened upon this rather interesting thread last night:
https://twitter.com/LawNuse/status/1313587866082181121
Scroll down a bit and start reading from where you see the old B/W photo of Biden and a little girl…
Knew he was dodgy, but the poster’s thoughts regarding the photo really made me think..

172136 ▶▶ jrsm, replying to Samhurt, 2, #667 of 2225 🔗

What exactly is misleading or harmful about that tweet?

171961 Alan P, replying to Alan P, #668 of 2225 🔗

Does anyone know how many of the PCR tests are done multiple times? Do people get tested more than once? If so are these included in the total I.e. double (or triple) counted?

171977 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Alan P, 3, #669 of 2225 🔗

There was a post about this yesterday: https://lockdownsceptics.org/soaring-positive-test-results-the-whole-story/

TL;DR – yes it seems that there has been some double-counting, and the government isn’t publishing the right figures that would allow us to find out how much.

171983 ▶▶▶ Alan P, replying to mattghg, 3, #670 of 2225 🔗

Thanks you Matt.

Keep our eyes peeled on this one. I can see another “revelation” further down the turnpike…..

“cheer up people said, things could be worse. So I cheered up and sure enough things got worse!”

171984 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Alan P, 3, #671 of 2225 🔗

It actually needs an enquiry it’s that important I’d say

171966 Coronamoana, replying to Coronamoana, 23, #672 of 2225 🔗

I’m usually a quiet person who doesn’t like confrontation. I’ve just questioned my supermarket delivery man on why he was wearing a mask. He said he’s not bothered about it but does it to protect others. It is not a directive from the supermarket. He said he feels it’s really important to wear them in supermarkets so you don’t sneeze on the produce (I pointed out that I never have done and never would do that!) but that when he goes to the pub he wouldn’t bother. [bangs head against wall – do people not realise that what they say makes not a blind bit of sense?]

He apologised for the continuing situation where I have to carry the crates of food to my kitchen myself. I asked him what he would do if I was a feeble old woman. He said the company directive is for them to use their discretion. If somebody needs their shopping carried in, they ask them to shut themselves in a separate room while they do that. This is slightly concerning in that it leaves elderly people vulnerable to those less honest who are looking for the opportunity to help themselves to whatever might be lying around.

I also mentioned an article I’d read this morning about the health dangers of masks and threw in something about the false positives. We then both wished each other a happy day!

I can’t be quiet anymore.

171985 ▶▶ Neil Hartley, replying to Coronamoana, 14, #673 of 2225 🔗

Your delivery man wouldn’t be “protecting me” he’d be thoroughly depressing me. Seeing people plod around in masks is thoroughly depressing.

172109 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Neil Hartley, 1, #674 of 2225 🔗

Yes and most all look thoroughly depressed, saving mankind is a tough gig.

172009 ▶▶ FlynnQuill, replying to Coronamoana, 11, #675 of 2225 🔗

A couple of weeks ago I had an Asda delivery driver turn up dressed like Darth Vader. I made a comment about him looking like Darth Vader and he just stared at me. I then said “Are Asda making you wear face masks as the normal lads that deliver don’t wear them”? He then retorted like a supine supreme better wetter that it protected him against Covid. Well, that was like a red rag to a Bull. I then pointed out that there were no peer reviewed papers that face masks protected you from any viruses and even WHO don’t recommend them. I also pointed out that there were plenty peer reviewed papers that said masks are ineffective at stopping viruses. He just looked at me like I was an idiot.

He hasn’t delivered my shopping since.

172080 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to FlynnQuill, 2, #676 of 2225 🔗

That’s the look I get when I go in somewhere and they say would you like to use the sanitiser ? and I say no thanks,they just can’t compute a different perspective.In response to the sanitiser I once asked what is it ?,’sanitiser’,I know but what is it ?,’well,er,I don’t know really’.Sums it up to me.

172209 ▶▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Paul, 1, #677 of 2225 🔗

Another possible answer if you’re feeling a bit devious ” yes please, I’d like to squirt it in your eyes. Is that okay?”

172085 ▶▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to FlynnQuill, 5, #678 of 2225 🔗

I’ve taken to entertaining myself by trying to out-bedwet them. When they hand you your delivery note with any substitutes, leap out of the way as though they’ve set fire to you; ask plaintively if they’ve sanitised the trays between customers; ask if the person doing the picking wore gloves all the time; in short, try to find ways where they HAVEN’T protected you.

And then give them a tip, in cold hard filthy DIRTY coinage. Bet you they accept it.

172185 ▶▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to Miss Owl, 1, #679 of 2225 🔗

‘plaintively’ is a lovely adverb choice

172107 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to FlynnQuill, #680 of 2225 🔗

Do you think some working for ASDA knows what peer reviewed even means?
He does not give a toss as long as he gets some money to buy his beer and go to Butlins with his family.

171967 BeBopRockSteady, 3, #681 of 2225 🔗

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(20)30287-X/fulltext?fbclid=IwAR1_lFGKHU3OWBH-TJsadrl-npKxr6Q82-j2EHnUYYyOQWNXSA1GugBgWCU

An example of the kind of study pushed to support the Long Covid arguments. I actually seen this pushed as an argument for closing schools, never mind the fact that there were no school age individuals in the study and median age of the conditions detected was 71.

Anyway, these studies always seem to suffer from the broad approach to CV-19. They can diagnose based on PCR, they can do it with a negative PCR but with CT scans, they can test positive at a later date that when they presented to hospitals and be added.

While these data gathering studies can be useful to track emergence of possible new disease pathways and related conditions, they are essentially just a finger pointing at curve in a graph and saying, that’s interesting.

Also PCR is a nonsense as we know

171991 AnotherSceptic, replying to AnotherSceptic, 4, #682 of 2225 🔗

More “long covid” shite.
Just to keep up the scaremongering.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/mum-who-coronavirus-six-months-4582633

She had it for 6 months…..

172002 ▶▶ MizakeTheMizan, replying to AnotherSceptic, 9, #683 of 2225 🔗

There’s long influenza too. It’s a thing, it happens. A minority of people get ill with viruses and suffer worse, or have long term effects.

This is no different to any other seasonal virus. The only thing that is different is the politics.

The question is why?

172070 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 1, #684 of 2225 🔗

That’s easy to answer – more sickness (real or imagined) means more opportunity to flog cures. People have been doing that since before the Middle Ages. Nothing changes.

172069 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to AnotherSceptic, 1, #685 of 2225 🔗

The “Long” type that is most common and especially in the last few years is a dry cough. Some people have them for months even after a mild cold. Don’t know why it is.

172377 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to AnotherSceptic, 1, #686 of 2225 🔗

Some people are attention seekers others hypochondriacs she’s one or the other .

171996 Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #687 of 2225 🔗

Skynews have grey haired bint slagging off The Grest Barrington Declaration.

She is quite something in her condemnation. It is a selfish manifesto.

Greenlaugh?

172005 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to Basics, 8, #688 of 2225 🔗

I’ve no idea who you are talking about, but I would be my left kidney that she has a public sector job.

172082 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Recusant, 1, #689 of 2225 🔗

Public health migh have appeared in the ticker tape. Obviously i had only a glimpse at the interview. Your kidney is safe imo.

172008 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Basics, 8, #690 of 2225 🔗

Calling legitimate and authentic concern for the health and wellbeing of millions of citizens “selfish” is just about as low as it gets. Clearly there is no limit to the depths of depravity to which someone like this can sink in order to defend their Covid monomania. It is actually frightening.

172028 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Richard O, 3, #691 of 2225 🔗

‘Calling legitimate and authentic concern for the health and wellbeing of millions of citizens “selfish” is just about as low as it gets’.

Agree – scummy behaviour and I for one am sick of couching it in terms any less harsh than that.

172044 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #692 of 2225 🔗

On the plus side, that the GBD is being acknowledged at all in MSM, and then dismissed with such base and groundless accusations, is a sign that our opposition are taking it very seriously.

172015 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Basics, 2, #693 of 2225 🔗

Yes, it was Trish Greenhalgh – she was very shouty. I think the proponents of lockdown have been lashing out since the middle of last week. Hancock to other Tory backbenchers; Ferguson and Greenhalgh to anyone who will listen; Bill Gates against the FDA. Wonder why?

172019 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 6, #694 of 2225 🔗

I should add, the favoured ‘scientists’, which includes Ferguson and Greenhalgh, appear to be a bit threatened by the obviously eminent scientists and doctors who are co-signatories to Barrington.

172038 ▶▶▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #695 of 2225 🔗

Remember that in universities there is always going to be academic jealousy and competition. Greenhalgh and Ferguson are losing ground, so they are fighting their positions.

172039 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #696 of 2225 🔗

Does this mean we are now in the second phase, where they fight us?

172047 ▶▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to Mark, 2, #697 of 2225 🔗

Wouldn’t that be the third phase? “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win” 😉

172066 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to mattghg, 1, #698 of 2225 🔗

Oh yes, forgot one!

172064 ▶▶▶ DocRC, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 7, #699 of 2225 🔗

Trish Greenhalgh is a GP. She is entitled to her opinion but is not an expert. For what it’s worth, I have just the same qualifications as she does and I have signed the Great Barrington Declaration!

172089 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to DocRC, #700 of 2225 🔗

Thanks, worth more than my MA, MICE .

172148 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to DocRC, 1, #701 of 2225 🔗

Good stuff Doc.

172155 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #702 of 2225 🔗

“Very shouty” – I sensed there was a need for her to perform so angrily. As though asked or given permission to go to next level of rage against the Declaration.

Imo Msm signs are the declaration poses a sincere threat and must be stamped on before the numbers build.

172030 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Basics, 2, #703 of 2225 🔗

She’s got impressive creds for sure

https://www.phc.ox.ac.uk/team/trish-greenhalgh

Her last two published articles were pro face masks and long covid

172032 ▶▶▶ Ozzie, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 7, #704 of 2225 🔗

Yes, but her articles on face masks didn’t contain any original research and make no reference to randomised control trials to support face mask use. In other words her articles are based on opinion rather than fact.

172170 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Ozzie, 2, #705 of 2225 🔗

Unfortunately, that’s what is passing for science these days — observational studies and opinion pieces, not peer reviewed.

172372 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #706 of 2225 🔗

There’s me saying bint too.

Particularly fine title this: ‘Face coverings for the public: Laying straw men to rest’

172042 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Basics, 4, #707 of 2225 🔗

Presumably nobody is there to point out the selfishness of locking down to protect the well off while condemning the world’s poor to starvation?

172090 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Mark, 2, #708 of 2225 🔗

And the working class in rich countries.

172145 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Mark, 1, #709 of 2225 🔗

No Mark it was sophie the presenter who was in the studio. The whole interview seemed related to another matter – I didn’t catch what.

Greanlaugh had obviously been booked by sky to talk about the other matter but producers beforehand has asked her if she would answer a question or two about the Great Barrington Declaration. She agreed, called it selfish self indulgent liberalism. Quoted a para, said that it was fringe scientists and the huge majority of Scientists are all in favour of lockdowns masks vaccines or whatever she spouted about this vast majority – no evidence given for such statements of course. With that deed done – collusion complete – ssophie moved on to the main subject.

I anticipate Richie Allen will cover as audio clip later today if he caught it.

172194 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Basics, 1, #710 of 2225 🔗

Ha. Yeah Richie will definitely be doing that.

Interesting you note she used the word ‘Fringe’. I had an argument on social media earlier today with someone who just couldn’t wait to dismiss the GBD. Saying it was all quack scientists and right wing economists behind it. They clearly are suffering from some kid of mental breakdown but I thought I’d spend some time with them, putting across a soft argument that maybe they should be taking this a little more seriously given those that have signed up to it.

172378 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #711 of 2225 🔗

They are fringe. Interesting to think the city of the fringe has economically tanked in part because of the lack of the fringe this year.

172251 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Basics, 1, #712 of 2225 🔗

A bit comical (if we disregard the cynical dishonesty) to try to pretend this list of mainstream top experts are “fringe”.

172043 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Basics, 2, #713 of 2225 🔗

She’s got impressive creds for sure

https://www.phc.ox.ac.uk/team/trish-greenhalgh

Her last two published articles were pro face masks and long covid. Interesting to note that in her Face Masks article she admits there are only observational studies to back the mask mandates, so spends the narrative trying to say that should be enough.

Such approaches are not strictly scientific according to Carl Henegen as they lack evidence of sufficient quality. Any and all public health interventions should be made only on the basis of scientific evidence, for reasons obvious to anyone

” I challenge my critics’ apparent assumption that a particular kind of systematic review should be valorised over narrative and real‐world evidence, since stories are crucial to both our scientific understanding and our moral imagination.”

https://www.phc.ox.ac.uk/publications/1108824

172097 ▶▶▶ Ozzie, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #714 of 2225 🔗

I posted this above:

Yes, but her articles on face masks didn’t contain any original research and make no reference to randomised control trials to support face mask use. In other words her articles are based on opinion rather than fact.

In scientific research, the gold standard is randomised control trials (RCT) – observational studies have lesser standing and cannot necessarily be extrapolated to a wider population.

172106 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Ozzie, 2, #715 of 2225 🔗

Indeed. One article she posts to defend her stance on droplets from speech explicitly mentions :

“We did not assess the relative roles of droplets generated during speech, droplet nuclei,2 and aerosols in the transmission of viruses.”

172118 ▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 3, #716 of 2225 🔗

Her article actually demonstrates why observational claims are dangerous:

“New covid‐19 infections fell more quickly in the Czech Republic, and only began to fall in Austria after masks were made mandatory 2 weeks later,3 though an alternative interpretation of this natural experiment is that Austrian data was confounded by changes in testing policy.29 Also noteworthy is the observation that every single country where masks or cloth face coverings have been introduced as national policy (often but not always alongside other measures), rates of transmission fell in the subsequent days.”

Czech Republic has gone back into lockdown. France, Spain examples of rising ‘cases’ with masks.

The only thing I can guess ties this kind of stuff altogether is that we are chasing shadows with PCR testing. It’s simply causing havoc as so many are assuming positive equates to infection

172130 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #717 of 2225 🔗

Great stuff Bebop. A dashed line by me and you work away to expose the kind of professional the media desparately turn to in an atempt to quash a reasoned peaceable comppasionate response to this fraud. Thank you.

172195 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #718 of 2225 🔗

As the old saying goes “Extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence”.

172086 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Basics, 1, #719 of 2225 🔗

Gupta pointed out that it is the exact opposite and that at the moment (as so often) the weak suffer what they must .

172125 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 1, #720 of 2225 🔗

It is so clearly based in compassion and empthay for others. It is a kind document. Exactly as Gupta says and intended.

172144 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Basics, 3, #721 of 2225 🔗

She’s a co-author of this article in the BMJ from April:

https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1435

They say there is basically no evidence that really says masks are effective but wear them anyway because we said so.

Their ultimate reason that is totally utter and complete unsubstantiated bollocks is :

they could have a substantial impact on transmission with a relatively small impact on social and economic life.”.

172174 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #722 of 2225 🔗

Small impact??? I haven’t been inside a store or a restaurant in months. I suspect bar and restaurant owners would say there’s been a rather massive impact on their economic lives since all the draconian mandates.

172219 ▶▶▶ Lowe, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #723 of 2225 🔗

Greenhalgh and colleagues appeal to the “precautionary principle” to argue that face masks should be worn both in the home and also outside it when meeting others.
I presume that Greenhalgh and her colleagues will continue wearing their face masks forever – for after all, there may be a new virus about which hasn’t yet been noticed, and the “precautionary principle states we should sometimes act without definitive evidence, just in case.”
Poor poor Trish. Not brushed her teeth in months. They’ll be trashed by now Trish! Not eaten. Not kissed anyone. Yet smug inside her mask knowing she could be keeping others safe.
But I do wonder what colour of face mask Trisha would advocate for new-born babies? Blue for new-born boys or pink for new-born girls? Or is that too obvious? Surely the new-born need face masks too “just in case”!

172258 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Basics, 1, #724 of 2225 🔗

Trisha Greenhalgh… I wouldn’t have expected anything less of her!

171997 Tommo, replying to Tommo, 20, #725 of 2225 🔗

Face masks – please pick holes in my logic (so I can improve my argument), or add anything else to aid my argument with face mask fanatics…

  • Some argue face masks work because they capture bigger droplets. But presumably I can only create bigger droplets if I cough or I sneeze. If I do not have a persistent cough or sneeze (i.e. not infectious), then I won’t create big droplets. Therefore I do not need to wear a mask. Even if I feel the sudden urge to cough or sneeze, I could either do so into my elbow or by pulling my top over my mouth or nose, which would act as a similar barrier to a face mask.
  • Others argue that the virus is spread by airborne transmission – i.e. talking or breathing through mouth. If this is true, then face masks are completely useless as the virus particle is so small it will go through a face mask.
  • A face mask may give you some protection if an infectious person was to cough or sneeze in your face. This would be an unpleasant experience, but likelihood of this actually happening must be very, very, very low. The exception being health care workers dealing with infectious patients, where proper face masks will be of some use.
  • A face mask may be useful in protecting others if I am genuinely ill and coughing / sneezing. But if I am genuinely ill, then most likely I will be in bed, isolating and resting, because I am ill.
  • The other main way that viruses are spread is by touch. Face masks increase how much you actually touch your face, so if not used correctly most likely increase the possibility of viral spread.

Thoughts? Counter-arguments? Anything else you would add?

172012 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Tommo, 3, #726 of 2225 🔗

Studies which show masks to be effective are carried out in controlled settings and suffer from bias. For example, those hospital workers wearing masks in a study self report if they wore them 100% during the reporting time frame (would they admit they didn’t and would they remember all instances when they didn’t?) and they may also see behaviour changes to just being part of the study such as cleaning hands more. This only increases the unreliability of the data.

It’s amazing how often this point can be labelled at the studies that support masks.

172022 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Tommo, 3, #727 of 2225 🔗

All this sounds ok.

Plenty of evidence that they don’t work is assembled on this website: nomasks.info

172036 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Ozzie, 12, #728 of 2225 🔗

Ozzie, the mask mandate had nothing to do with science. As I’ve posted here before, it was all down to international lobby groups such as masks4all.org.uk.

One of the founders of this sick and perverted ‘organisation’ is

“A digital activist using her background in digital marketing to campaign for real societal and political change”

Who the fuck is she speaking on behalf of?! If these people want to change society, then they should enter politics and get elected, instead of skulking in the shadows like the bunch of gutless cowards that they so clearly are.

172051 ▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to T. Prince, 3, #729 of 2225 🔗

I’m sure we’d all only need two guesses as to who she’s speaking on behalf of.

172091 ▶▶▶▶ Ozzie, replying to T. Prince, 4, #730 of 2225 🔗

I agree that for whatever reason this is about crowd psychology. The problem is, however, that many people think that there is “real science” behind the use of facemasks, although I have found that disabusing them of this is difficult.

172316 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Ozzie, #731 of 2225 🔗

Masks are a “COMMUNITY” thing, they are a very visable sign of compliance to the new normal COMMUNITARIAN political construct that is active now. No one will be left behind.
The total break down of our old society literally by mass psychological trauma and disruption to re-built a new society along COMMUNITARIAN lines.

Caring and sharing, being responsible for others, being kind, not causing others distress by breathing or communicating with them.

172023 ▶▶ HoMojo, replying to Tommo, 10, #732 of 2225 🔗

This was posted by a sceptic a few days ago (Bella Donna I think) ‘
As a person who went to medical school, I was shocked when I read Neil Orr’s study, published in 1981 in the Annals of the Royal College of Surgeons of England. Dr. Orr was a surgeon in the Severalls Surgical Unit in Colchester. And for six months, from March through August 1980, the surgeons and staff in that unit decided to see what would happen if they did not wear masks during surgeries. They wore no masks for six months, and compared the rate of surgical wound infections from March through August 1980 with the rate of wound infections from March through August of the previous four years. And they discovered, to their amazement, that when nobody wore masks during surgeries, the rate of wound infections was less than half what it was when everyone wore masks. Their conclusion: “It would appear that minimum contamination can best be achieved by not wearing a mask at all” and that wearing a mask during surgery “is a standard procedure that could be abandoned.”
I was so amazed that I scoured the medical literature, sure that this was a fluke and that newer studies must show the utility of masks in preventing the spread of disease. But to my surprise the medical literature for the past forty-five years has been consistent: masks are useless in preventing the spread of disease and, if anything, are unsanitary objects that themselves spread bacteria and viruses.’

172152 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to HoMojo, 4, #733 of 2225 🔗

Not a fluke, numerous studies have repeated the same conditions and behaviour and have reached the same conclusions – masks are useless at protecting anyone and can actually make the spread of bacteria and viruses worse.

172154 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to HoMojo, 3, #734 of 2225 🔗

The medical profession is very resistant to change and is loathe to abandon their outdated practices, even when there is solid evidence for them to do so. My dad was a GP and never read journal articles, so I laugh every time someone says we should listen to the doctors. And yet Dr. Denis Rancourt, a physicist and expert in environmental nanoparticles, is not considered “expert” enough because he’s not a medical doctor. In his article I’ve linked to he writes:

“I am an expert in molecular structures, reactions, and dynamics, including molecular complexation to biotic and abiotic surfaces. These processes are the basis of viral attachment, antigen attachment, molecular replication, attachment to mask fibers, particle charging, loss and growth in aerosol particles, and all such phenomena involved in viral transmission and infection, and in protection measures.”

Sounds like just the kind of expert we should listen to. He reviews all of the evidence on masking in this article. Spoiler: they don’t stop viral particles.

https://www.rcreader.com/sites/default/files/Denis-Rancourt-Face-masks-lies-damn-lies-and-public-health%3Dofficials-a-growing-body-of-evidence-August-03-2020.pdf

172373 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to HoMojo, 1, #735 of 2225 🔗

Ive posted references to this elsewhere but it doesn’t fit with the Karen mindset prevalent everywhere

172027 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Tommo, 11, #736 of 2225 🔗

I had a ‘debate’ with someone on Conservative Woman recently who said face masks must work or they ‘wouldn’t wear them in hospitals’. He couldn’t get his head around the fact that wearing a mask in Tesco surely isn’t the same as wearing them in hospital!

Anyway, found this a bit later on…

https://www.sott.net/article/438827-A-classic-fallacious-argument-If-masks-dont-work-then-why-do-surgeons-wear-them

172056 ▶▶ James, replying to Tommo, 5, #737 of 2225 🔗

How do you convince a Christian that God does not exist or an atheist that She does? This is a faith based debate; not one based on reason. Logic is used only to confirm one’s beliefs. Most people have not moved beyond Voodoo in their understanding of cause and effect. Modern health science is nothing more than a new form of magic.

172059 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to James, #738 of 2225 🔗

God – He

172068 ▶▶▶▶ Melangell, replying to Tenchy, 2, #739 of 2225 🔗

Whoooooooosh!

172071 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to James, 2, #740 of 2225 🔗

People are welcome to believe in them, just don’t make me wear one

172058 ▶▶ Les Tricoteuses, replying to Tommo, 2, #741 of 2225 🔗

Point 3, if someone coughs in your face surely your mask would then be covered in virus?

172073 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Les Tricoteuses, 2, #742 of 2225 🔗

I always ask face shielders if they have to constantly wipe down their item what with all the infectious droplets begin caught.

172061 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Tommo, 3, #743 of 2225 🔗

You have to remember the Fallacy of Composition. It’s important because the question: “Do face masks stop droplets being transmitted?”, is a very different question to “Do face masks help reduce the spread of a virus in a population to a significant degree”. Just because face masks reduce droplets doesn’t mean they reduce viral spread. Because you aren’t measuring all the mechanisms and their coupling.

The situation for reducing droplets can be controlled and tested and in general has much less degrees of freedom as opposed to viral transmission in a population.

The flu is being transmitted irrespective of face masks which shows that any effect is not significant i.e. no different than not wearing them. There may be a small effect in there but it is being counteracted with something else. And unless you characterise this then you’re just making wild extrapolations. Which is a no-no in any other safety related industry.

There is also the aspect of harm caused by wearing them which at the moment also appears to not be as significant. But I would not be surprised if that will change.

172077 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Tommo, 4, #744 of 2225 🔗

Sneezing is not a C-19 symptom according to CDC, WHO and Boots . Helpful summary by Boots posted here a few days ago.

172079 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Tommo, 4, #745 of 2225 🔗

On one of the odd occasion when I’ve felt compelled to wear a “face covering” I felt a sneeze brewing and my instinctive reaction was to pull it down and sneeze (away from anyone else) then pop it back on. The idea of sneezing right into it seems gross.

And, no, I didn’t have covid, just some bloody fibres up my nose from said face covering.

So, any theory is complete bollocks when exposed to human nature.

172117 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Tommo, 4, #746 of 2225 🔗

The DELVE report is a good one with a study quoted oaf a masked hamster.

That is the ;level of science the Government re using to justify masks:

Looking into DELVE, which is part of the Royal Society (bankrolled by Bill Gates and Wellcome Trust):

https://rs-delve.github.io

This is their “facemasks study report”:

https://rs-delve.github.io/addenda/2020/07/07/masks-update.html

They are a data analytical group so no need for medical people, just data analysis.

Few gems from the “report/study” if you can call it that:

  • A series of controlled experiments in a hamster SARS-CoV2 transmission model and “the index animal was “masked”’ WTF?
  • the majority of SARS-CoV2 infected individuals remain asymptomatic throughout infection.
  • There are no human controlled trials on the efficacy of universal mask use in stemming SARS-CoV2 transmission.
  • However, the conclusions of this study are not supported by the presented evidence , as summarized by a number of scientists requesting a retraction by the authors.

Unfortunately they admit about the report:

and has not been subject to formal peer-review.

and

DELVE and the Royal Society accept no legal liability for decisions made based on this evidence.

And never one of authors is Royal Society’s President’s daughter.

172138 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Tommo, 3, #747 of 2225 🔗

Beyond the narrow case for or against face masks vis a vis Covid is the wider set of arguments against them.

They could contribute to oxygen deprivation and bacterial infections. They create fear and disengagement from the economy. For some they contribute to accidents. They are not free and so divert money from individuals and since everyone buys them they are like a regressive tax taking up a tiny proportion of income of the wealthy but a larger one from those on minimum wage.

172167 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Tommo, #748 of 2225 🔗

What you say is a good explanation for why masks appear to be not any impact at all.

I think I’m right in observing that in every country in which the populace has been given no option but to wear masks the infection rates have gone up.

It can only be argued, I think, that they have slowed the rate down. But maybe there is evidence that even this isn’t so.

I’ve looked at the mortality figures for Wales covering the period when masks weren’t mandatory in shops but were in England.

From the 7th August (when it can be argued perhaps mask wearing would have started to have had an impact in England) to the 14th Sept when they became mandatory in Wales – Wales had 15 Covid deaths and England had 333.

Twixt the 7th August to the 14th September in maskless Wales there were under five deaths per million while in England it was almost six.

Since Wales has been in step with England it rather looks as if it’s now doing worse than it was.

This comparison probably doesn’t prove owt – but it certainly doesn’t cause me to think should be worried about not wearing a mask.

I welcome corrections if any of my figures are in error.

172253 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tommo, #749 of 2225 🔗

Sums up my thoughts exactly.

172293 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Tommo, 1, #750 of 2225 🔗

On your second point, if the virus is airborne your exhalations will carry it out of the top or sides of the mask even if it doesn’t go through.

172318 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Tommo, 3, #751 of 2225 🔗

Say i’m not wearing a mask because i don’t want to and i don’t care what you say because you have no right to expect anything whatsoever from me. There very fact you are demanding anything makes you a direct threat to my freedom and i don’t take that lightly.

172006 tonyspurs, replying to tonyspurs, 4, #752 of 2225 🔗

Now the family GP Charlatan Dr Hilary Jones has joined in against the Great Barrington Declaration who the fuck does he think he is
https://www.google.com/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2020/10/07/dr-hilary-warns-herd-immunity-for-coronavirus-may-never-happen-we-dont-know-enough-about-it-13384079/amp/

172020 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to tonyspurs, 8, #753 of 2225 🔗

I cannot be arsed reading the article but “herd immunity may never happen”? How does he work that one out – does he expect the human race to be wiped out? What a sausage.

172025 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #754 of 2225 🔗

Eye candy for brain dead yummy mummies.

172244 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #755 of 2225 🔗

It’s weird isn’t it.

Natural immunity can’t happen with something we don’t kmow a lot about, but vaccine makers will ensure it all goes away.

172048 ▶▶ leggy, replying to tonyspurs, 2, #756 of 2225 🔗

I have a few names for him.

172105 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to tonyspurs, 3, #757 of 2225 🔗

“We don’t know enough about it” is the mantra of one of my GP friends. Must be NHS playbook.

They are shits aren’t they!

172113 ▶▶ Basics, replying to tonyspurs, 3, #758 of 2225 🔗

Doesnt matter who he thinks he is. Him being activated to come out against the declaration is enough to know the otherside have seen in it a critical danger to their goals.

Urge anyone to look closely at his eyes to identify human warmth.

172007 godowneasy, replying to godowneasy, 11, #759 of 2225 🔗

Klaus Schwab and his great fascist reset
 https://winteroak.org.uk/2020/10/05/klaus-schwab-and-his-great-fascist-reset/amp/

Wherever you are on the spectrum of “cockup” v “conspiracy” I highly recommend this article. It is a long and detailed deconstruction of Scwhab’s (WEF) Great Reset agenda. It is thoroughly disturbing but please persist to the end which has some positive notes.

Excerpt: “Schwab and his accomplices are using the Covid-19 crisis to bypass democratic accountability, to override opposition, to accelerate their agenda and to impose it on the rest of humankind against our will in what he terms a Great Reset”.

It would be impossible for senior government leadership to be unaware of at least some of this agenda. Is this agenda driving the COVID response around world or is it “merely” capitalising on the outfall? Either way, it’s not going to go away.

172045 ▶▶ leggy, replying to godowneasy, 12, #760 of 2225 🔗

Covid passports in the news today – directly linked to WEF and the Commons Project.Looks like it’s coming out into the open now. The good thing about this is that those of us postulating the link to the WEF can no longer be accused of conspiracy theory.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8814245/Worlds-Covid-passport-trialled-flights-Heathrow-week.html

172150 ▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to leggy, 5, #761 of 2225 🔗

yeah people are waking up. It’s despicable what the elite parasites are trying here.

173076 ▶▶ Old Normal, replying to godowneasy, #762 of 2225 🔗
172018 Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, 32, #763 of 2225 🔗

Just found this comment on the DM article that Toby cited above:

“National Review: ‘Elon Musk calls Ferguson an utter tool who does absurdly fake science. Jay Schnitzer, an expert in vascular biology and a former scientific director of the Sidney Kimmel Cancer Center in San Diego, tells me: I’m normally reluctant to say this about a scientist, but he dances on the edge of being a publicity-seeking charlatan’ “

Sums it up really, although you may disagree with the last sentence.

172024 ▶▶ Will, replying to Ozzie, 2, #764 of 2225 🔗

Change “dances on the edge of being” to “is” and he is spot on.

172033 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Ozzie, 1, #765 of 2225 🔗

Looks like theatre rather than sincerety to me. I’m still wondering where a car maker gets the money to put a huge amount of satellites up to be honest.

172037 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to leggy, 1, #766 of 2225 🔗

Tesla was always a side project until recently. He put his money into SpaceX, the money he got from PayPal. And almost lost all of it too before the first successful Falcon flight.

172156 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to mhcp, #767 of 2225 🔗

He’s also had a lot of bailouts. At least the guy has a bit of vision, if nothing else.

172302 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Ozzie, 1, #768 of 2225 🔗

Elon Musk is a professional bullshit artist. That’s his job to push out bullshit and distract people from the deep state that is rolling out their agenda under the cover he provides. Watch his “thing” about compressed air hover cars on youtube. Mental. His satellites, 1000’s of them blocking out the starts, literally, mental. His stupid electric cars, mental.

172029 leggy, replying to leggy, 47, #769 of 2225 🔗

Not sure if this has been posted in here before, but here’s a letter to the Cock by Mike Yeadon. Wonder if he gets a reply.

Dear Mr Hancock,

I have a degree in Biochemistry & Toxicology & a research based PhD in pharmacology. I have spent 32years working in pharmaceutical R&D, mostly in new medicines for disorders of lung & skin. I was a VP at Pfizer & CEO of a biotech I founded (Ziarco – acquired by Novartis). I’m knowledgeable about new medicine R&D.

I have read the consultation document. I’ve rarely been as shocked & upset.

All vaccines against the SARS-COV-2 virus are by definition novel. No candidate vaccine has been in development for more than a few months.

If any such vaccine is approved for use under any circumstances that are not EXPLICITLY experimental, I believe that recipients are being misled to a criminal extent.

This is because there are precisely zero human volunteers for whom there could possibly be more than a few months past-dose safety information.

My concern does not arise because I have negative views about vaccines (I don’t).

Instead, it’s the very principle that politicians seem ready to waive that new medical interventions –

at this, incomplete state of development- should not be made available to subjects on anything other than an explicitly experimental basis. That’s my concern.

And the reason for that concern is that it is not known what the safety profile will be, six months or a year or longer after dosing.

You have literally no data on this & neither does anyone else.

It isn’t that I’m saying that unacceptable adverse effects will emerge after longer intervals after dosing. No: it is that you have no idea what will happen yet, despite this, you’ll be creating the impression that you do.

Several of the vaccine candidates utilise novel technology which have not previously been used to create vaccines. There is therefore no long term safety data which can be pointed to in support of the notion that it’s reasonable to expedite development & to waive absent safety information on this occasion.

I am suspicious of the motives of those proposing expedited use in the wider human population. We now understand who is at particularly elevated risk of morbidity & mortality from acquiring this virus. Volunteers from these groups only should be provided detailed information about risk / benefit, including the sole point I make here. Only if informed consent is given should any EXPERIMENTAL vaccine be used.

I don’t trust you. You’ve not been straightforward & have behaved appallingly throughout this crisis. You’re still doing it now, misleading about infection risk from young children. Why should I believe you in relation to experimental vaccines?

Dr Michael Yeadon

172034 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to leggy, 11, #770 of 2225 🔗

In the consultation I made the point that if they push ahead with this then why can’t any other industry that deals with safety do the same. Cars, planes and trains. Experimentatl software can be applied to them too. It sets the precident.

172151 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to mhcp, 3, #771 of 2225 🔗

It’s interesting in the wake of the 737-max controversy, which showed substantial issues with regulatory compliance (such as Boeing self-certifying) and the issues that resulted, we’re so quick to throw that particular lesson away. Nothing astounds me so much as the shortness of people’s memories.

172101 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to leggy, #772 of 2225 🔗

Excellent. Where did you get it from?

172142 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to leggy, 3, #773 of 2225 🔗

I can think of 600,000 reasons why development is being expedited.

172046 kf99, replying to kf99, 17, #774 of 2225 🔗

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlWcXRk1-NE&ab_channel=talkRADIO
SDP Leader William Clouston
“Shield the vulnerable, isolate if ill, wash and distance. Nothing else.” Here’s a party we can get behind perhaps…

172063 ▶▶ Julian, replying to kf99, 3, #775 of 2225 🔗

They seem to have been late to the party but every little helps

Perhaps they or Reclaim can get some defections from among MPs

172147 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to kf99, 1, #776 of 2225 🔗

Never thought I’d agree with something the SDP ever said, strange times indeed.

172053 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 11, #777 of 2225 🔗

Simon Dolan has been given the date for an Interim Injunction Hearing on the15th of October with no further opportunity for delay from the Government.

The Government have until Friday the 9th to file evidence.

https://www.keepbritainfree.com/post/judge-orders-interim-injunction-hearing-date-of-the-15th-oct?postId=5f7d945b54488000178821be

172178 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #778 of 2225 🔗

Apparently Boris at PMQs today could not answer the question on the scientific rationale for the curfew…which is helpful for Simon’s injunction…

172208 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Carrie, 2, #779 of 2225 🔗

“Piff paff. not following rules…. poffle. Flim flam partying youngsters. Fwaah, The Science (TM).”

172379 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Cheezilla, #780 of 2225 🔗

Yes it’s great news.

172054 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 4, #781 of 2225 🔗

From the Grauniad

Brussels closes cafes and bars in new virus curbs
All bars, cafes and event halls in Brussels have been told they must shut down for at least a month as of 7am (CET) on Thursday as the Belgian capital went beyond recently tightened national restrictions in Belgium.
The minister-president of the Brussels-Capital region, Rudi Vervoort , said drinking alcohol in a public place would also be banned, sports clubs would have to close their canteens and food consumption in markets was prohibited amid a spiralling infection rate.
Restaurants will remain open for now in an attempt to keep the hospitality industry alive.
Vervoort said: “One in seven people tested in Brussels returns a positive result, the virus is everywhere in the region. There is not a single municipality in Brussels which is below the national average.”
Dr Yves Van Laethem , a spokesman for the Covid-19 crisis centre, said at a press conference where the new measures were announced that Brussels was second only to Paris in terms of the rate of infection.
The average number of new coronavirus infections was 2,466 per day between 27 September and 3 October, an increase of 57% from the previous seven-day period. He said:

We are in an acceleration phase of the virus and it is clearly continuing in all age groups and all areas. Certainly in Brussels and parts of Wallonia, the increase will continue sharply.

[In Brussels] We are currently in the top 3 in Europe : with fewer infections than Madrid, but more than Paris.

On Wednesday, Belgium’s new prime minister, Alexander De Croo , announced that Belgians would be limited to having three close contacts outside their own household.

Those who implored Canute to hold back the tide would be impressed

172131 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to arfurmo, 6, #782 of 2225 🔗

The systematic destruction of small business continues throughout the West.

172177 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to arfurmo, 1, #783 of 2225 🔗

I expect not in the European parliament bars and cafes though..

172353 ▶▶ HoMojo, replying to arfurmo, 1, #784 of 2225 🔗

Positive tests are not infections. Positive tests pick up inactive remnants of all sorts of coronaviruses. Maybe the powers that be should watch The Crimes Against Humanity video. This is just an excuse to close a country down, nothing to do with the virus. Are those sleepy heads on here still convinced this is just about incompetence? Bet you greater lockdowns are coming here to UK, without any honest evidence to justify them.

172393 ▶▶ annie, replying to arfurmo, #785 of 2225 🔗

How many dead?

173196 ▶▶ DomW, replying to arfurmo, #786 of 2225 🔗

Lockstep rears its ugly head yet again

172065 Les Tricoteuses, replying to Les Tricoteuses, 1, #787 of 2225 🔗

Serious question. Do we know who commissioned Ferguson to make his report or is he a permanent advisor.

172088 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Les Tricoteuses, #788 of 2225 🔗

I thought he resigned after breaking lock down to bonk a married woman?

172093 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Les Tricoteuses, 6, #789 of 2225 🔗

He’s like a nonce that has groomed a whole family.

172098 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Les Tricoteuses, 4, #790 of 2225 🔗

Bill gates finance this employers so expect that Bill said “go give Boris et al a scary story or else. They will go along with it as they are in my pocket anyway”

172128 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Les Tricoteuses, 4, #791 of 2225 🔗

The Blair Foundation is closely linked to the Gates Foundation, even on the website, Blair is the fox in the hen house in this country, always in the shadows for everything.

172165 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Les Tricoteuses, #792 of 2225 🔗

That is indeed apposite. Who commissioned it, and when (ICL was given a specific dataset from China)?

172072 leggy, replying to leggy, 5, #793 of 2225 🔗

This is another covid passport/WEF article. Worth reading the comments for some flavour on public opinion?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8814245/Worlds-Covid-passport-trialled-flights-Heathrow-week.html

172078 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to leggy, 4, #794 of 2225 🔗

It was always the plan. Millions of migrants on the move around the world, all with their i phones, they want to track them, plus the added bonus of tracking everyone else.

172175 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to leggy, #795 of 2225 🔗

Supposedly being trialled on some flights later this week apparently, on United Airlines and at least one other….

172201 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Carrie, #796 of 2225 🔗

Singapore I think.

172074 James H, replying to James H, 8, #797 of 2225 🔗

Exquisite put down of BBC “journo” by Prof. Gupta on the World at One. Reminiscent of Mogg at his best. Delicious.

172133 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to James H, #798 of 2225 🔗

I can haz link or transcript?

172172 ▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to mattghg, #800 of 2225 🔗

It’s on the iplayer. Today’s episode of the World at One, about 16 minutes in.

172273 ▶▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Alethea, #801 of 2225 🔗

The presenter said something like ‘so you want no further restrictions on young people…’ The idea of fewer restrictions, or none at all just didn’t compute.

172202 ▶▶ RickH, replying to James H, #802 of 2225 🔗

of ‘Mogg at his best?’

Jeez! That’s condemnation with faint praise!

172108 Basics, replying to Basics, 6, #803 of 2225 🔗

PCR testing – cycle numbers and reasons for the false positive rates.

https://www.ukcolumn.org/article/covid-19–everything-and-nothing

“COVID-19 is the respiratory disease that some patients suffer following infection with the SARS-CoV-2 virus. The question is how many?”

An new and complete well sourced article.

172387 ▶▶ George Marchaux, replying to Basics, #804 of 2225 🔗

Holy shit, that was a fascinating read. I’m staggered

172126 Hoppy Uniatz, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 9, #805 of 2225 🔗

So, if cotton masks are hygienic, why do you use damp cotton wool to grow mustard and cress?

172137 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 3, #806 of 2225 🔗

Should try that on a used mask!

172163 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, #807 of 2225 🔗

Do you need an answer to that?

172397 ▶▶ annie, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, #808 of 2225 🔗

Mustard and cress doesn’t get Covid?

172127 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 11, #809 of 2225 🔗

Just got an answer back from my FOI clarification request this morning from a Borough Council:

Borough Council does not hold any information regarding your request .

Please re-direct to XXXX County Council as previously advised

So I guess the answer to the 2 questions are:

So are you really telling me that the council has received no justification for any lockdown or other restrictive measure, no scientific evidence either from central Government or from your own research, has no proof whatsoever that any measure that is put in place is actually justified medically or will actually work?

So are you really telling me that the council’s stance is “we are just following orders”?

No Evidence or justifications available at any level of government

Yes just following orders

172160 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Awkward Git, 9, #810 of 2225 🔗

Absolutely.

I have worked for four different councils since this started in and around Covid – I’m under cover – and they all fully believe everything. I haven’t met one person who is sceptical. It is treated as an imminent threat to health as if we had a tsunami warning. I have never seen so much panic as they scramble to complete projects and surveys to keep the upper management happy who are also panicking. They all want to avoid having an “outbreak”.

Not one iota of proof but more importantly I have never heard one question about whether any of this is necessary.

172199 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #811 of 2225 🔗

… that’s true of the vast majority of the population.

It’s the way it works.

172275 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Lockdown Truth, #812 of 2225 🔗

Humm interesting…And also amazing.

172271 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Awkward Git, #813 of 2225 🔗

DING!

173191 ▶▶ DomW, replying to Awkward Git, #814 of 2225 🔗

No it’s completely different because they are “Just implementing the guidelines”

172135 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #816 of 2225 🔗

Looks like the Sustainable World is the new Industrial Revolution. Covid with its health passport is a small part of it, the big money is in the Green technology, bet they’ve all got their fingers in the pie already

172141 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Dan Clarke, 7, #817 of 2225 🔗

Except it is not sustainable – green energy despoils the planet.

https://planetofthehumans.com/

172161 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to calchas, 2, #818 of 2225 🔗

I agree, but the money making side of conventional industry was on the way out.

172158 Richard O, replying to Richard O, 4, #819 of 2225 🔗

One of the reasons the Covid cult is so destructive is that it has evolved into a coalescence of the most toxic ideologies, beliefs and practices that have been weakening our society for decades.

I have started working on a list but it is going to take some time to sort out, so will leave it at that for now.

172166 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Richard O, 1, #820 of 2225 🔗

Strange that you say this as I was thinking just this last night.

172173 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Nobody2020, 6, #821 of 2225 🔗

Health and Safety is top of my list by the way. It has gradually crept into every aspect of our lives since the 1980s. For many years it was absurd but tolerable. Now it has reached its zenith, the whole society is a living hell.

172186 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Richard O, 1, #822 of 2225 🔗

One thing I am mulling over is how we are effectively declaring that we will no longer accept the randomness of nature and instead take control of things for ourselves. Which is all well and good but taking on that responsibility necessarily means that we also take the responsibility for any negative outcomes that arise because of our actions.

172198 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #823 of 2225 🔗

This I believe will be our undoing. Directly tampering with our DNA on a mass scale (we already have been doing so indirectly through our industrial and technological practices for at least a century) is doomed to spectacular failure.

172230 ▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #824 of 2225 🔗

It’s the mechanical view of nature. See Descartes, Newton etc. Its useful and tremendously innovative, but it’s just a map. Unfortunately we have mistaken the map for the territory. Its a fundamental belief that we can create a super intellect (AI?) which will be able to gather and submit all data to analysis and act with immediate effect. Nothing would be out of reach. The future guaranteed.

172191 ▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Richard O, 1, #825 of 2225 🔗

Yes.

If an animal wishes to live safely, then it volunteers to live in a zoo – behind bars.

At least until the keeper puts it to sleep.

172221 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Richard O, 2, #826 of 2225 🔗

Indeed. That’s why I was pleased when a few months back (May?) Toby toyed with the idea of a “dangerous party” to try to roll back this kind of nonsense.

172225 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Richard O, #827 of 2225 🔗

Yes! My thoughts exactly. It’s no coincidence that BLM, cancel culture, statue toppling and wokeness etc has “surged” or “spiked” at the same time as Covid.

172229 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #828 of 2225 🔗

Those bloody hobby horses! Distraction crapping all over the place.

172159 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 9, #829 of 2225 🔗

Regarding ‘Long Covid’ – this only affects those in the public sector. Discuss?

172183 ▶▶ Will, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #830 of 2225 🔗

And doesn’t affect the self employed. As usual the left is moving the goalposts. I would be interested to hear from Swedish posters whether Long Covid exists in Sweden, I have my doubts.

172226 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Will, #831 of 2225 🔗

‘The left’????

It’s a government of the right that’s doing all this – even if there’s a lot on the left being complicit. Do catch up – the election was almost a year ago.

I think that’s a diagnosis born of a Covid fever.

Or just a message from Plane Zog.

172243 ▶▶▶▶ JYC, replying to RickH, 2, #832 of 2225 🔗

Please. This is not remotely a government with a right-of-centre approach.

172248 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to JYC, #833 of 2225 🔗

It is left of Corbyn – it is even pursuing his manifesto.

172245 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Will, #834 of 2225 🔗

Apparently it does – there is a group of people claiming to have had covid symptoms for ‘more than 10 weeks’, who are complaining that they are not being believed by doctors and are having their sick pay stopped as a result.. There was an article in a tabloid (!) here a few weeks ago.. Not sure how many people we are talking about though..

172184 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 9, #835 of 2225 🔗

I work in the public sector. There are quite a lot of us on here.

That’s not to dismiss the point that I think you are making (although there are some very cushy contracts at the most unaccountable reaches of the private sector). But let’s avoid the divide and rule traps.

172192 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Ovis, #836 of 2225 🔗

Yes – it’s dangerous ‘hobby horse manure’

172210 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Ovis, 2, #837 of 2225 🔗

Well said on ‘divide and rule’

172217 ▶▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Ovis, 2, #838 of 2225 🔗

They don’t have UNISON though or teaching unions. If the food industry had taken the too scared to do my job mentality of Schools, Councils, Universities, HMRC, Companies House and more, we might all have starved.

172231 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Ovis, 4, #839 of 2225 🔗

The facts of this are that every Long Covid ‘case’ covered in the press as I have read is a doctor, nurse, teacher or charity worker. I am aware that many on here are public sector workers in these very categories, and have completely different views to many of their colleagues. We are all united on here in our condemnation of lockdown. But let’s not forget that the ‘divide and rule traps’ have already been established between public and private sector, and these people are subdividing the public sector, then seeking to silence the dissenters, such as Gupta, who is also a public sector employee.

172581 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Ovis, 2, #840 of 2225 🔗

Yep, I’ve worked in both, and my experience the private sector ain’t all it’s cracked up to be – quite the opposite in fact. But it’s an easy media hit, which gets lots of favourable comments, to knock civil servants.

And I know someone well who works in the pubic sector: in their sphere the staff want to go back to the offices, but can’t because of the new limitations on numbers – a smallish fraction compared with the capacity before CV. The staff can’t be blamed for this, and shouldn’t be.

Over recent years in the public sector they’ve jammed as many people as they can into open-plan offices with hot-desking. Perfect germ spreading environment. But again, that isn’t the fault of the people who have to work there.

172222 ▶▶ Schrodinger, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #841 of 2225 🔗

And how exactly does ‘long Covid’ differ from old fashioned ‘long pneumonia’?

Pneumonia can be a serious illness that takes weeks or months to recover from.”

https://www.blf.org.uk/support-for-you/pneumonia/recovery

172241 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Schrodinger, 2, #842 of 2225 🔗

As Gupta has said, there are a certain number of people who have longer term symptoms after all viral diseases. My husband suffered for months after he contracted viral meningitis, and he then contracted a serious bacterial infection subsequently.

172249 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #843 of 2225 🔗

Like ME (previously known as yuppie flu)…

172264 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Schrodinger, 1, #844 of 2225 🔗

Also glandular fever is well known for having long term problems with fatigue being the main one.

172292 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to p02099003, #845 of 2225 🔗

I can attest to that, having contracted it in second week of my undergraduate degree – took months to be fully fit.

172435 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #846 of 2225 🔗

👍 👍 👍

172162 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #847 of 2225 🔗

The common argument against the Great Barrington Declaration (calling for a herd immunity approach) is that the end point may not be achievable.

What those arguing against it do not seem to accept is that immunity at any level has an effect which is cummulative and compound as it increases, i.e. the effect is exponential.

The more immunity within a population the less need there is for other measures. Somebody with immunity is more useful in stopping the spread of a virus than someone wearing a mask for example.

It doesn’t matter if the theoretical definition of Herd Immunity is not achievable. If we want to have a balanced approach to controlling this virus and want to use all the tools available then we should include immunity.

Now the argument may come down to how that immunity is acquired, i.e. either through vaccination or naturally, but either way immunity is how we get away from relying on other measures.

Note that the narrative is now chaging to Long Covid as the main reason as to why we should be continuing down the path we are on. In the last couple of days I’ve seen numerous people being interviewed on the news giving their, unbiased of course, opinions on their own condition. Interestingly, Sky News have just announced that Long Covid is now going to be a recognised condition.

172169 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #848 of 2225 🔗

It looks like ME (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) without the covid test

172179 ▶▶▶ D B, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #849 of 2225 🔗

Fibromyalgia – no scientific proof, just “pain”

172180 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #850 of 2225 🔗

Somebody with immunity is more useful in stopping the spread of a virus than someone wearing a mask for example.”

That’s what’s known as a ‘low bar’! 🙂

172190 ▶▶ Stuart Barker, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #851 of 2225 🔗

Indeed and the argument also suffers from the gross cognitive dissonance that if the end point can’t be achieved naturally then chances are it can’t be achieved with a vaccine.

Then what? Dehumanising social distancing & mask wearing, no live or community music, no grassroots sport, no live spectator sport, online university etc until the end of the human race?

172206 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Nobody2020, 8, #852 of 2225 🔗

So herd immunity is not achievable, but eradicating an endemic, global respiratory virus is?

172213 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to A. Contrarian, #853 of 2225 🔗

“Cause New Zealand!”

172234 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to A. Contrarian, #854 of 2225 🔗

Superb

172215 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Nobody2020, 9, #855 of 2225 🔗

I find the response to Long Covid enraging (and I do believe it exists for a small number of unlucky people). People have suffered long term issues following viral infections for as long as humans have existed, but post-viral syndrome from any other illness is roundly ignored, dismissed as yuppie flu and certainly not given all this time, attention and support. If you feel unwell after flu – bugger off. Come back in 6 months if you still feel bad. If you feel unwell after covid, even after just a couple of weeks – interviews on the news, dedicated support centres, every little symptom you may experience is faithfully added to the list as gospel (chin swelling anyone?), presumably even your GP will listen to your experiences with sympathy. It’s unbelievably one-sided and hypocritical.

172220 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #856 of 2225 🔗

What about Long Covid Vaccine?

172255 ▶▶ HoMojo, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #857 of 2225 🔗

Back in the day it was known as ‘post viral fatigue’ and when it affected you psychologically GPs would call it ‘post viral depression.’ Usual tactic to change the language to herald something old as new.

172260 ▶▶ DocRC, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #858 of 2225 🔗

Long Covid is another nonsensical attempt to make SARS-CoV-2 different from every other virus in history! Post-viral fatigue is a well recognised sequela of other viral infections including influenza. I’ve always told patients to think of it as a spectrum from feeling tired for a few days after a bout of flu up to long-term fatigue such as ME.

172182 Country Mumkin, 8, #859 of 2225 🔗

Afternoon everyone

I did say yesterday I’d draft a letter today to ask GPs to sign GB declaration. My suggestion is that we should all send to our local GP’s surgery.

For a few reasons I’m going to sit on that.

  1. I want to see the press trends, including responses to Dr Hilary’s divisive comment
  2. I want to see what else happens over the next few days generally
  3. I’m having a meeting with a local group of people taking action next week and want to discuss it with them

So I’ll be back with this action and news on other actions next week.

Best wishes
CM
x

172187 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, #860 of 2225 🔗

Quick question: What’s the deal with France? On BBC News it says over 40% of ICU beds are Covid sick.

172193 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Country Mumkin, 3, #861 of 2225 🔗

I have heard that it is 40% reserved for Covid.
No one actually in them, bit like NHS hospitals, beds will be unused for weeks.
Precautionary principle/if it saves one life/think of the cheeeeldren/ etc

172218 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Nessimmersion, 1, #862 of 2225 🔗

Now, now, you forgot grandma!

172203 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Country Mumkin, 2, #863 of 2225 🔗

Seen that. Depends on overall yearly trends, as many are just positive but in for other things. How is ICU capacity in comparison to 2019 and before?

Context is key and yet the BBC continue to make me do their work for them.

They were screaming Bordeaux and Marseille were at capacity three weeks ago. Has that resulted in complete meltdown yet?

https://www.trtworld.com/life/icus-in-france-s-marseille-close-to-overload-latest-updates-39731

172233 ▶▶▶ Gavroche, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #864 of 2225 🔗

Worth noting that the French government’s claims about Marseille & Bordeaux were strongly contested by some noted clinicians there, notably Professors Didier Raoult & Jean-François Toussaint. If you understand French, there are lots of youtube clips of both dismissing their own government’s claims and being met with exactly the same arguments beloved of lockdown advocates this side of the Channel.

172360 ▶▶ annie, replying to Country Mumkin, #865 of 2225 🔗

RESERVED for Covid sick.Doesn’t mean there are any Covid sick.

172189 DRW, replying to DRW, 2, #866 of 2225 🔗

I had a snotty council email last night saying “Confirmed cases rising in the area and the country, heads shoulders knees and toes sheeple!” I read that as “We really want a mockdown to impress our masters and it’ll be YOUR fault.” They’re probably just waiting for my university to start mass asymptomatic testing at 45 cycles and get the required numbers.

172196 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to DRW, 1, #867 of 2225 🔗

This is interesting. We had the same thing here. Preparing us for a national lockdown perhaps?

172205 ▶▶ MizakeTheMizan, replying to DRW, 2, #868 of 2225 🔗

We got similar email from Sheffield council at 7:00 this morning. Either you’re in the same council, or all councils are operating from the same script.

172216 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to MizakeTheMizan, #869 of 2225 🔗

I haven’t had such an email (yet) – rural Suffolk, so we will probably be the last to be incarcerated!

172246 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 2, #870 of 2225 🔗

It looks like the delays in the production of the snake-oil are necessitating a new stage in ramping up the Fear factor.

172212 ▶▶ RickH, replying to DRW, #871 of 2225 🔗

The key question is : ‘What do you mean by ‘confirmed cases’? Please be specific.

Are you referring to clinical viral illness or PCR positive results?

172224 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to RickH, #872 of 2225 🔗

No clarification funnily enough.

172242 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to DRW, #873 of 2225 🔗

Of course not – clarification and accuracy would blow the testdemic out of the water.

172197 BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 8, #874 of 2225 🔗

Sweden. Zero deaths per million 14 day rolling average Aug to Now.

172320 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #875 of 2225 🔗

I think you have mixed up Sweden with New Zealand. 0 covid deaths only possible in a country that locks down if a single case is found. 0 covid deaths impossible in a country that doesn’t have public transport muzzling. Please pay attention to the science.

172543 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to arfurmo, #876 of 2225 🔗

Ah. Understood fellow muzzler

172200 leggy, replying to leggy, #877 of 2225 🔗

Can anyone point me to any research or articles re amplification, FPR and detecting dead viral RNA please?

172211 ▶▶ RickH, replying to leggy, 1, #878 of 2225 🔗

Try :

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/pcr-positives-what-do-they-mean/

https://hectordrummond.com/2020/10/06/a-beginners-guide-to-false-positives/

For a start.

The trouble is that the question of the relationship of scraps of RNA to an actual virus is not often well examined. There are so many potential sources of error in the PCR chain.

172295 ▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #880 of 2225 🔗

Thanks very much both – I’m also looking for the statement that “if you amplify any sample enough, you can find anything” – I remember seeing it, but not where. Any ideas?

172250 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to leggy, 1, #881 of 2225 🔗

There’s a video on YouTube that explains it as well.

172214 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 22, #882 of 2225 🔗

Wife just had one of those telephone consultations with the hospital specialist.

Won’t say what hospital or department for obvious reasons.

He seemed a lot more open and chatty on the phone that when you meet face-to-face which led to some interesting snippets coming out such as:

  • the doctors and staff want to get back to normal ASAP but the trust not letting them on “orders from above”
  • no symptomatic covid patients been admitted for months now
  • recent weeks a few symptomatic covid patients have been coming in but probably seasonal flu but listed as covid due to the way testing is done to find cases
  • most of those testing positive are actually asymptomatic and have been admitted for somethings else

Nothing we didn’t really know anyway, it’s just a case now of getting the definitive proof which will be easier than trying to convince that 10% of avid-believers they are wrong.

172223 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #883 of 2225 🔗

These facts alone should be enough to bring down the government and have all regulations abolished with immediate effect. Instead we are headed into months (and possibly years) of total lockdown.

Do those in the NHS who are not speaking out realise just what is at stake here?

172235 ▶▶ HoMojo, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #884 of 2225 🔗

More than 10% sadly. 10% would be easy

172240 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #885 of 2225 🔗

That gels with my perceptions.

I think it’s important to recognise the way things are working top-down before blaming the troops on the ground :

the doctors and staff want to get back to normal ASAP but the trust not letting them on “orders from above” “

172259 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to RickH, 2, #886 of 2225 🔗

I heard that from her GP as well, almost the exact same phrase and he blamed “the idiots running PHE”.

172404 ▶▶ annie, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #887 of 2225 🔗

Time these lurkers spoke out.

172462 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Awkward Git, #888 of 2225 🔗
  • the doctors and staff want to get back to normal ASAP but the trust not letting them on “orders from above”

This ties in with a conversation I was having with an NHS employee yesterday. Her take on it is that the NHS in her area is being run by dim-witted middle managers being manipulated by ‘those above’ (whoever those are).

172228 HoMojo, replying to HoMojo, 4, #889 of 2225 🔗

I know this link has been posted a few times before but as I have only just watched it and consider it the single, most important piece of all the damning pieces we have seen here since April I am posting it again without any apology. It is breath-taking in its clarity and yes, in its assertion that this whole Covid19 bulshit is a massive crime against humanity. It’s 49 minutes long and I was hanging on every word. So important. If I was to urge just one thing to share amongst all the zealots and sheep out there who really think their mask wearing is somehow saving the human race it would be this. Bookmark it, use it, shove it down peoples’ throats. Please. (Surprised it’s still up on YouTube actually.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr04gHbP5MQ&list=TLPQMDcxMDIwMjDK8vBKzIvYIA&index=1

172232 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to HoMojo, 1, #890 of 2225 🔗

Anyone know if anything has happened yet with regard to this case? The video has been up for a while and I’m seeing it posted here and there, but are they anywhere near getting a date to have the case heard?

172238 ▶▶▶ HoMojo, replying to Carrie, #891 of 2225 🔗

I don’t know. I’ll have to do some digging

172237 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to HoMojo, 1, #892 of 2225 🔗

Yes, I watched it yesterday, it is worth watching in full.

172239 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 7, #893 of 2225 🔗

Is there no end to this BLOODY MADNESS?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news

Look at the main story , re Scotland, then below; “Greene King to close pubs and cut 800 jobs”.

172254 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Tenchy, 2, #894 of 2225 🔗

Plenty of news of pubs shedding jobs today IN Northern Ireland also. The wave is clearly hitting them hard now

172265 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Tenchy, 5, #895 of 2225 🔗

There is a bi-monthly CAMRA magazine London Drinker which has a section on pub closures. For future issues, I think they should replace this with a “Pubs Still Open” section. It will only be a handful of pages.

172274 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Richard O, #896 of 2225 🔗

Good little read is the London drinker, will shrink to 1 side of A5 paper

172278 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to stefarm, 1, #897 of 2225 🔗

Sad, but true. Either there will be no pubs, no drinkers or both.

172272 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Tenchy, 1, #898 of 2225 🔗

They are coming for drinkers everywhere!

Call for review of off-licence hours and alcohol limits during pandemic
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1007/1169978-covid19-coronavirus-alcohol-sales/

172290 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to godowneasy, 4, #899 of 2225 🔗

But we know that uncontrolled consumption of alcohol is a huge part of the problem “.

Put the proles under house arrest, then blame them for drinking in their own homes. If this is happening in Ireland, it will happen everywhere.

I’ve switched to 100% home delivery directly from breweries, so to get after me they will have to bring in online purchase limits. Which I have no doubt is on the roadmap.

172296 ▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Richard O, 1, #900 of 2225 🔗

Stocking up again immediately.

172317 ▶▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Richard O, #901 of 2225 🔗

You’ll be ok if you only sit down to drink and put on a mask to go to the toilet and get another bottle from the pantry.

172297 ▶▶▶ Jakehadlee, replying to godowneasy, 4, #902 of 2225 🔗

I brew my own and suddenly see an entrepreneurial opportunity

172385 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Jakehadlee, #903 of 2225 🔗

Legal to brew as much as you want for your own consumption – both beer, cider etc and for the hard stuff.

Selling it is a different matter – you will need a licence so that HMRC can take the duty unless you want to be a speakeasy.

As long as you pay the duty they don;t care how much you brew and sell.

Was the same during American probation, no limits on brewing for your own consumption but selling it was illegal which is how the speakeasy were shut down.

172247 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 3, #904 of 2225 🔗

BBC on the 6000 signature declaration https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54442386 some of the comments are interesting.

172256 ▶▶ RickH, replying to p02099003, 4, #905 of 2225 🔗

A fascinating case study in the crap reportage that is the BBC house style.

172261 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to p02099003, 3, #906 of 2225 🔗

Yes, just read it – and the comments. I do get the impression we’re at a turning point with public opinion. Needless to say, the BBC managed to dig up some naysayers, fair enough, for balance, I suppose. But how about the patronising remark at the start:

What do other experts say?

While clearly “well intentioned”, the declaration has profound ethical, logistical and scientific flaws, University of Leeds school of medicine associate professor Dr Stephen Griffin says.

The vulnerable come from all walks of life and deserve to be “treated equally”.

And “long Covid” is reported to have left even people mild infections with problems such as fatigue and joint pain for months.

University of Reading cellular biology expert Dr Simon Clarke, meanwhile, says whether herd immunity is even achievable remains unclear.

“Natural, lasting, protective immunity to the disease would be needed,” he says.

“And we don’t know how effective or long-lasting people’s post-infection immunity will be.”

Some say the most likely scenario is immunity is not long-term but future reinfections then become milder.

172291 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Tenchy, 2, #907 of 2225 🔗

So this “expert” doesn’t seem to understand that vaccines are also based on herd immunity (vaccines just artificially stimulate an immune response).

172374 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to zacaway, #908 of 2225 🔗

An effective vaccine does not provide so call herd immunity; it protects the vaccinated individual from the disease.

172470 ▶▶▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Steve Hayes, #909 of 2225 🔗

The NHS think that vaccination does provide herd immunity, the presumption being that if 90% of children are vaccinated against MMR will provide protection for those children who aren’t vaccinated. When the MMR causes autism caused the uptake to drop to 78% there was concern about an epidemic. Also this is the NHS website about vaccination https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/why-vaccination-is-safe-and-important/

172538 ▶▶▶▶▶ Gavroche, replying to Steve Hayes, #910 of 2225 🔗

Are you sure about that, Steve? The EU-sponsored website, Vaccines Today , thinks differently:

‘Herd immunity is a form of immunity that occurs when the vaccination of a significant portion of a population (or herd) provides a measure of protection for individuals who have not developed immunity.’

172341 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Tenchy, 4, #911 of 2225 🔗

While clearly “well intentioned”, the declaration has profound ethical, logistical and scientific flaws, University of Leeds school of medicine associate professor Dr Stephen Griffin says.
The vulnerable come from all walks of life and deserve to be “treated equally” .”

It really is remarkable that such fatuous nonsense can be spouted by an academic, and taken seriously.

The idea that allowing the vulnerable to choose whether and how much to protect themselves from a risk rather than locking everyone down out of fear of it is not “treating them equally” is so perverse that you have to suspect ulterior motivation, usually either emotional (fear) or ideological

172453 ▶▶▶ HaylingDave, replying to Tenchy, #912 of 2225 🔗

I think what goes missed ( on purpose, no doubt! ) when analyzing Gupta, Townsend’s, etc … GBD is that this is not a forced confinement of the most vulnerable demographic, it is the option and support to isolate if desired ! That’s important distinction in my books!

172310 ▶▶ muzzle, replying to p02099003, 2, #913 of 2225 🔗

So annoying. Pro-lockdown expert opinion is reported as the truth, when alternative views are represented it’s always with an added “so they say”.

172252 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 23, #914 of 2225 🔗

Why does nobody ever question why we didn’t need a vaccine or permanent social distancing measures for Spanish flu, Asian flu, Hong Kong flu etc? Yes, people died, but after the initial wave they became indistinguishable from “normal” flu within the population. Life did not have to undergo any permanent changes. What is the rationale for thinking this coronavirus is so special and unique?

172257 ▶▶ calchas, replying to A. Contrarian, #915 of 2225 🔗

Therefore, what do we conclude?

172262 ▶▶ MizakeTheMizan, replying to A. Contrarian, 12, #916 of 2225 🔗

You have had 10 points deducted from your social rating for asking that question.

172269 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 2, #917 of 2225 🔗

Not sure I’ve had any points left for a long time now…

172524 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 1, #918 of 2225 🔗

The social distancing score is stored on a spreadsheet and my entries have already exceeded the limit”

172266 ▶▶ RickH, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #919 of 2225 🔗

Aaaagh!

Those blatant facts are DANGEROUS and SUBVERSIVE!

(To Mr Toad and friends)

Still, they’ve got a new Act in place to allow the authorities to come round and sort you out without fear of prosecution.

172313 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #920 of 2225 🔗

I think the big difference is the ability to pretend to work from home which even 5 (?) years ago would not have been possible due to lack of IT and the Dianafication of the people which takes the view that infinite cost is worth it to save one life.

172368 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to arfurmo, #921 of 2225 🔗

But the measures kill.

172454 ▶▶ HoMojo, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #922 of 2225 🔗

None. it’s about social control

172267 Biker, replying to Biker, 47, #923 of 2225 🔗

So Sturgeon has got us sitting around unable to visit friends or go to the pub because one person has died and 319 people are in hospital who i’d wager every one of them is very old and near death regardless. We will never get these people off out backs when so little people are affected and she’s got us living like this. The government has lost any right to demand anything from me. They are insane and i’m not doing what they say. There are alternative ways of dealing with this and their steadfast refusal to even look at alternative solutions shows me that they are totally incompetent if not acting on behalf on a sinister one world government. It’s one of them. Either way they are acting well outside of anything that could be considered reasonable and as such it’s a duty to stand up to them.

172279 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Biker, 11, #924 of 2225 🔗

I think Ms Sturgeon has more or less admitted in response to a question in the Scottish Parliament that she can only keep this going for another 16 days because she is running out of money (unless of course Sunak sends more)?

172321 ▶▶▶ DocRC, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 6, #925 of 2225 🔗

The despised English (taxpayers) have deep pockets! She hopes.

172335 ▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 9, #926 of 2225 🔗

The financial suicide of the current Scottish administration makes the Darien Scheme look like a sober and judicous investment.

172354 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #927 of 2225 🔗

16 days? We’ll see how that pans out.

172403 ▶▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to Richard O, 4, #928 of 2225 🔗

Just wait ’till the Bucky Boys can’t get their Buckfast…

172283 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Biker, 4, #929 of 2225 🔗

Where’s William Wallace when you need him?

172301 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to leggy, 11, #930 of 2225 🔗

Furloughed

172327 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to leggy, 2, #931 of 2225 🔗

William Wallace is faker than the the lab flu test

172452 ▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to leggy, #932 of 2225 🔗

Self isolating.

172300 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Biker, 13, #933 of 2225 🔗

Sturgeon said: “ Ms Sturgeon said her advisers said the two main things to do was limit interaction between households in domestic settings, which had already been done, and to limit interaction between people in other settings, such as pubs.”

Pretty clear then – human interaction of all types is now banned.

172405 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Biker, 3, #934 of 2225 🔗

She needs taking down, and yes I really do mean it!

172509 ▶▶ pmdl, replying to Biker, 4, #935 of 2225 🔗

She is trying to emulate Saint Jacinda of NZ and reach her zero covid wet dream.

172276 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to stefarm, 12, #937 of 2225 🔗

No alcohol in restaurants?!

One step closer to the Puritans’ dream of prohibition.

172277 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Richard O, 10, #938 of 2225 🔗

It’s all a fucking wet dream for wee jimmie

172281 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Richard O, 8, #939 of 2225 🔗

Also, the alcohol is responsible for most of the restaurants’ profits. On top of reduced demand and reduced capacity, none of them will survive this.

172284 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Richard O, 6, #940 of 2225 🔗

And we all know how that panned out in the USA almost 100 years ago.

172298 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #941 of 2225 🔗

I think we have had the rebellious spirit crushed out of us. There will be no Al Capones coming to our rescue.

172346 ▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Richard O, 5, #942 of 2225 🔗

What rebellious spirit? Scotland is pish. My dearest wish is for Fife to be handed back to us Picts so we don’t have to have anything to do with Scotland.

172282 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to stefarm, 13, #943 of 2225 🔗

The wee Kranke has just stated that she does not want the virus to spread of its own free will

I was unaware it had a free will

172287 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Major Panic, 4, #944 of 2225 🔗

It’s the collaborators who don’t have a free will.

172468 ▶▶▶ Hypatia, replying to Major Panic, 2, #945 of 2225 🔗

But it has! It knows when your group of 6 becomes 7, it knows whether you are standing or sitting eating in a pub, it knows when you get up to go to the toilet, and if you are over 6ft 3 tall, it knows and will come to get you because it hates tall people! Very clever little beast, this virus. Or so the Government would have us believe.

Absolute idiots promoting absolute nonsense.

172285 ▶▶ Nic, replying to stefarm, 3, #946 of 2225 🔗

But just means she wont have to give then any furlough etc as they can still open very cynical

172304 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Nic, 2, #947 of 2225 🔗

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54449573

Closed completely in the Central Area. Is she from the Wee Free?

172280 Nic, replying to Nic, 20, #948 of 2225 🔗

Sturgeon had banned pubs from selling alcohol but not shut them

Very cynical it means they wont have to pay out any furlough etc.
Shes just doomed even more to the dole Q
What an evil bitch she is

172288 ▶▶ MizakeTheMizan, replying to Nic, 7, #949 of 2225 🔗

I think that the word ‘evil’ is very appropriate now.

172294 ▶▶ Evelyn, replying to Nic, 1, #950 of 2225 🔗

She has said pubs in the central belt, including Edinburgh and Glasgow have to shut for 16 days.

172394 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Nic, 2, #951 of 2225 🔗

W H A T? She is one crazy MFer!

172286 stefarm, 1, #952 of 2225 🔗

https://youtu.be/GQZN01Cqzek

We are going down like BHS

172289 calchas, replying to calchas, 8, #953 of 2225 🔗

There was a suggestion in April from the WHO that governments ban sales of booze because, they claimed, it weakens the immune system.

I stocked up the next day just in case.

172308 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to calchas, 3, #954 of 2225 🔗

Well what a surprise. WHO dictating the minutiae of health policy yet again. And what evidence do they have for this claim I wonder?

172312 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to calchas, 4, #955 of 2225 🔗

I don’t drink but can I come round your place with a crate or two?

172514 ▶▶ David, replying to calchas, #956 of 2225 🔗

Alcohol sales were banned in South Africa.

172299 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 31, #957 of 2225 🔗

Downing Street has rejected the call of the Great Barrington group of scientists for an end to lockdown measures, saying their argument rests on an ‘unproven assumption’ that it would be possible to protect the most vulnerable.

Would that be unproven like lockdowns? What is proven is the human immune system and these interventions are making sure it plays little part.

172303 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Sarigan, 14, #958 of 2225 🔗

Lockdown utterly failed to protect the most vulnerable.

172307 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Sarigan, 1, #959 of 2225 🔗

No more than we expected.

172314 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Sarigan, 5, #960 of 2225 🔗

Yes, we need his government to protect the vulnerable in care homes and hospitals, and thereby leave them for his government to then finish them off. Shameful.

172315 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Sarigan, 10, #961 of 2225 🔗

Says people who are guilty (at best) of the manslaughter of thousands of elderly who they dumped into care homes and then denied treatment to.

I can handle lying, it’s part of the human experience, but on this scale and at such ceaseless intensity?

172326 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Sarigan, 9, #962 of 2225 🔗

Downing Street has rejected the call of the Great Barrington group of scientists for an end to lockdown measures because it doesn’t fit with their evil master plan, mwahahahahaha!

Fixed that for you.

172366 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to leggy, 1, #963 of 2225 🔗

Thanks Leggy.

172339 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Sarigan, 3, #964 of 2225 🔗

Groupthink. Same as climate science. “The unproven assumption that the whole edifice is based off of hypothetical data”. We aren’t dealing with people who deal with the real world. We are dealing with LARPers.

172351 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Sarigan, 1, #965 of 2225 🔗

Democracy in action right there. Thanks downing street the arbiters of all things true and scientific.

172381 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Sarigan, 7, #966 of 2225 🔗

Boris isn’t trying to suppress a virus, he’s trying – and succeeding – to suppress a people. He’s obviously fully signed up to The Great Reset. a UK style, ChiCom social credit system (hence the ‘health passport’ and the Green Agenda. The reason for the long lockddown, the ridiculous, ever changing rules and the erosion of our freedoms is to get people so used to living this that they will be so grateful to have any small freedoms back they won’t miss the life they had before. ‘We have always been at war with Oceania’.

172539 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Lili, 1, #967 of 2225 🔗

Am convinced that he was deliberately set up to meet Carrie Symonds, and that she (like Me-again Markle) ‘trapped’ him by having a child…

172545 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Carrie, #968 of 2225 🔗

and Kushner with Trump’s daughter.

172389 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Sarigan, 2, #969 of 2225 🔗

Downing Street has rejected the call of the Great Barrington group of
scientists for an end to lockdown measures, saying their argument rests
on an ‘unproven assumption’ that it would be possible to protect the
most vulnerable.

Except, of course that that is exactly what they did for 3 to 4 months earlier in the year.

172407 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to Sarigan, 5, #970 of 2225 🔗

They have a point. I’m not sure I like the sound of protecting the vulnerable. Protecting the vulnerable is virtually indistinguishable from neglect in a care home setting. I would be much more comfortable with a declaration that said “People die, including you, especially when you’re old. Get Over it.

172728 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Sarigan, 1, #971 of 2225 🔗

Since when were unproven assumptions ever a problem for Downing Street?

These assholes are just trolling the British population now.

172744 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Sarigan, 1, #972 of 2225 🔗

All they have to do is wrap their arms around the most vulnerable. Isn’t that what they claimed at the start?

172305 nottingham69, replying to nottingham69, 14, #973 of 2225 🔗

Johnson has to find some balls and come flat out against this, including some financial sanctions. Surely the Jocks can’t just sit back and accept this.

172323 ▶▶ JYC, replying to nottingham69, 15, #974 of 2225 🔗

Speaking as a Jock who cannot believe what our country has been prepared to accept, I can’t see there being any resistance here. If you do come up to visit us, there will be new checkpoints set up at the border. You will be required to leave your backbone and any capacity to think for yourself, until you leave. They are no longer required in Scotland.

172345 ▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to JYC, 1, #975 of 2225 🔗

I can we are full of leftie virtue signallers who are indoctrinated by nanny state ideals.

172357 ▶▶▶▶ JYC, replying to JHuntz, #976 of 2225 🔗

I hope you are right.

172432 ▶▶▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to JYC, 1, #977 of 2225 🔗

sorry, my point was I can believe what we’ve accepted. I agree no resistance at all.

172324 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to nottingham69, 3, #978 of 2225 🔗

What balls.England next.Please understand they are all in it together.

172325 ▶▶ kf99, replying to nottingham69, 5, #979 of 2225 🔗

If the Holyrood opposition at the “Ikea Parliament” go along with all this I think we’re into Passport to Pimlico territory.

172392 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to nottingham69, 2, #980 of 2225 🔗

Why would he do that?

He’s part of the cabal, junior and following orders but still part of it.

This from 2007 proves it:

https://www.boris-johnson.com/2007/10/25/global-population-control/

172306 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 15, #981 of 2225 🔗

When my wife ( a “soft” sceptic) was told by her collaborator brother that it was the “mingler’s fault for “mingling” that the virus had spread, she replied “Well, what do you expect people to do?
Sit at home and look at one another all day?
We rest our case.

172423 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #982 of 2225 🔗

Yeah, and the reason the factory failed to meet its monthly output quota is because of saboteurs.

172309 Liam, 19, #983 of 2225 🔗

Krankie is a true believer. An utter maniac.

172322 Fingerache Philip., 8, #984 of 2225 🔗

Just visited my younger grand daughter’s school website and they are going to hold a “virtual” open night tomorrow!!!!
Perhaps all this will end when we all have virtual lives, oh silly me,that’s what we’ve got anyway.

172328 Richard O, replying to Richard O, 21, #985 of 2225 🔗

As a smoker, I have become accustomed to being harassed, bullied and marginalised over the last few decades. It was easy for the state to implement anti-smoking regulations because no more than 20% of the population smoke. Tyranny of the majority.

I warned many non-smoking drinkers that one day the state would come after them. Given that a majority of the population regularly consume alcohol, I always thought it would be virtually impossible to implement.

Folks, that day has arrived.

172329 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Richard O, 8, #986 of 2225 🔗

Meat is also under pressure.

172332 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to calchas, 17, #987 of 2225 🔗

Very much so.

If a life of vegan, teetotal, non-smoking poverty and isolation is what I have to look forward to, I will respectfully decline and drink myself to death. Starting tonight.

172361 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Richard O, 1, #988 of 2225 🔗

I’ll drink to that!

172560 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Richard O, 3, #989 of 2225 🔗

It does give me an idea though.

Surely now packs of face masks should be plastered with photographs of impetigo, dental neglect and people with steamed up glasses walking into lampposts?

172330 Jonathan Palmer, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 20, #990 of 2225 🔗

Paris,Belgium and now Scottish pubs/bars to shut.Also German and Dutch bars have a curfew similar to England.
Do you think all our politicians are equally incompetent or are following a script.
This is now obvious that this is a global coup.

172333 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 6, #991 of 2225 🔗

Groupthink.

172336 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to arfurmo, 5, #992 of 2225 🔗

Yes directed from Davos

172892 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #993 of 2225 🔗

why would the creator of the daleks not just exterminate us instead of this slow agonising death we’re being put through?

172376 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to arfurmo, 2, #994 of 2225 🔗

I go along with this suggestion. Seriously, it’s what’s happening.

172334 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 3, #995 of 2225 🔗

very obvious also pushing ahead with travel passports.

172493 ▶▶ pmdl, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #996 of 2225 🔗

All directed from WHO> WEF> BIS> IMF and shady foundations and think tanks. All slightly staggered to give the impression it is not co-ordinated.

172331 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 7, #997 of 2225 🔗

Telegrpah reporting that Wee Jimmie is to bring in muzzling in work place corridors and canteens. The muzzling obsession continues despite the lack of any evidence.

172337 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to arfurmo, 4, #998 of 2225 🔗

It would be easier to announce where masks are NOT required.

Which will soon be nowhere.

172342 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Richard O, 2, #999 of 2225 🔗

Salami tactics.

172348 ▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to calchas, #1000 of 2225 🔗

Sometimes a concession is made, but the general rule is ‘Two steps forward. one step back’

172370 ▶▶▶▶▶ JYC, replying to calchas, 1, #1001 of 2225 🔗

Any steps forward would be welcome at the moment. It feels like we have gone into reverse.

172427 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to calchas, 7, #1002 of 2225 🔗

Victor Klemperers diaries set how the Nazis stripped the Jews of everything one step at a time

172443 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 3, #1003 of 2225 🔗

Klemperer is essential reading, along with Solzhenitsyn.

The former made the point that as the war progressed, and defeat became inevitable, the arbitrary cruelty of Nazi regulations intensified. For instance, it became illegal for Jews to own pets. No reason, it was simply bureaucratic sadism out of control.

173145 ▶▶▶ DomW, replying to Richard O, #1004 of 2225 🔗

24/7….

172344 nowhereman, replying to nowhereman, 8, #1005 of 2225 🔗

Please spread this far and wide, especially those on social media.
Nullify non-disclosure agreements/gagging orders for NHS staff for covid-19
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/550598

Pass legislation to make null and void any non-disclosure agreements or gagging orders, irrespective of when entered into, when related to covid-19 (sars-cov-2), and to protect any staff who speak out. Apply to all current and former employees, directly or indirectly employed by the NHS.

172347 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to nowhereman, #1006 of 2225 🔗

Nice one, signed.

172359 ▶▶ HoMojo, replying to nowhereman, 1, #1007 of 2225 🔗

Not gonna happen though. Contradicts the agenda somewhat.

173144 ▶▶ DomW, replying to nowhereman, #1008 of 2225 🔗

Already signed. Thanks for posting!

172349 GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 17, #1009 of 2225 🔗

Sturgeon has also banned group exercise and contact sport. Aye, because anyone suffering from a life threatening debilitating virus is just desperate to get to their weekly Zumba class. WTF.

172355 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 19, #1010 of 2225 🔗

And yet lack of exercise is the biggest public health problem.

172380 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Steve Hayes, 5, #1011 of 2225 🔗

A while ago on one of Kidderminster’s main car parks the “authorities” actually had to create a “dedicated” lane leading to “Mcdonalds” to stop traffic jams with the normal car flow.
I honestly think that if Mcdonalds and the other junk food outlets closed down, half the population would starve to death.

172391 ▶▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1012 of 2225 🔗

It is the same in my town of residence: lunch time, dinner time and weekends, the cars are queuing on the main road, waiting to get to the car park queue and, ultimately, the drive through window.

172400 ▶▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #1013 of 2225 🔗

Starving to death counts as Covid for statistical purposes

172411 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Recusant, 4, #1014 of 2225 🔗

Is there anything that doesn’t count as Covid for statistical purposes?

172419 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #1015 of 2225 🔗

The government calls deaths caused by the lockdown measures: indirect COVID 19 deaths.

172455 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #1016 of 2225 🔗

Staying alive doesn’t count, which is why the authorities are trying to discourage it. Preferably in a way that they don’t get blamed for, as they were trying to save one life.

172352 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #1017 of 2225 🔗

The PCR test is unreliable, producing inaccurate information, and this is obvious to anyone who has bothered to pay attention. However, there is a reliable test, which would produce accurate information: viral culture. Yet the government chooses to use an unreliable, inaccurate test as its basis for public policies: policies that have caused and are causing massive harm, socially, economically, politically; policies that have and are killing people. Surely, our representatives in parliament ought to be asking the government, why?

172363 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Steve Hayes, #1018 of 2225 🔗

What’s your guess Steve as to why that is?

172413 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to calchas, 2, #1019 of 2225 🔗

A rationale for preferring the PCR test to the viral culture test might be that PCR is cheaper and quicker and can be rolled out on a mass scale relatively easily (notwithstanding how difficult Hancock seems to have found it).

As for my own guess: I suspect that partly it is the above rationale as it would appeal to the government’s advisors, in conjunction with the fact that the Cabinet is full of politicians who are apparently innumerate when it comes to statistical information and so do not understand the significance of the False Positive Rate; and the rolling out the track and trace programme meets their need to “do something!”

172439 ▶▶▶▶ HoMojo, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #1020 of 2225 🔗

FFS it’s because they want the highest numbers they can get to justify the tyrannical measures

172358 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1021 of 2225 🔗

I notice today on the government dashboard they’ve starting reporting “Deaths with COVID-19 on the death certificate”; this, of course, being a higher number than the “Deaths within 28 days of a positive test” (which is also still reported):

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

173140 ▶▶ DomW, replying to Tenchy, #1022 of 2225 🔗

Yep. Don’t need a positive Sars-COV2 PCR test to get on this list!

172362 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 4, #1023 of 2225 🔗

Ivor Cummings.

 One for the politically naive people out there – in a simplified story format to explain
People keep asking #WhyAreTheyDoingThis ?, and rightly so.
Well here’s just one reason – in a sense they have no choice, politically:

https://twitter.com/FatEmperor/status/1313850404925562885?s=09

172480 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Sarigan, #1024 of 2225 🔗

Great analysis

172364 godowneasy, replying to godowneasy, 22, #1025 of 2225 🔗

If only it was funny.

172367 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to godowneasy, 6, #1026 of 2225 🔗

Hey!! Les of your stereotypical jokes! You need cancelling.

172490 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Tenchy, #1027 of 2225 🔗

I know, right? The Englishman is likely to be on a mobility scooter, being too fat to walk anywhere.

172586 ▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to AidanR, 1, #1028 of 2225 🔗

The Irishman is likely to be outward looking and well-educated while the Scotsman gets free prescriptions paid for by the Englishman.

172365 KevinMillican, replying to KevinMillican, 7, #1029 of 2225 🔗

Can’t see the logic in closing pubs and restaurants…

172382 ▶▶ jb12, replying to KevinMillican, 7, #1030 of 2225 🔗

There isn’t any. Most of the ‘cases’ are amongst school kids and uni students anyway, and the former obviously aren’t in pubs and the latter are locked in their halls. My issue here is that people are just not seeing that if the lockdown was not aborted in the summer when the deaths and hospitalisations were at zero, what chance do any of us have as we enter respiratory illness season for the next 6 months?

172371 Ed Phillips, replying to Ed Phillips, 59, #1031 of 2225 🔗

I’m a church minister writing here under a pseudonym.

I broke down in a church yard today because the church’s door had a sign on it saying “Keep your distance.” It brought back how much all this is so destructive of all that is good and holy in this world.

My church has tried to have a light touch toward the laws and guidance but I’ve been reminded in the last few weeks that people really believe this stuff. The facemask edict has divided the church – I’ve tried to protect the exempt by explaining the law but I’ve been accused of being heartless. We’re singing but in a mumbly, compromised way. I’ve been mildly critical of the government in my prayers – and copped flack for it.

I don’t know how much longer I can carry on like this, implementing restrictions that I don’t believe in and which are harmful to the soul. I carry on because “woe is me if I do not preach Christ” and because I don’t want to abandon my flock or divide the church. But it’s hard work.

So, if you’re a Christian – pray for me and your ministers.
If you’re not then thanks for listening.

172422 ▶▶ Liam, replying to Ed Phillips, 8, #1032 of 2225 🔗

In my prayers. I refuse to attend church in the present circumstances.

172780 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Liam, 4, #1033 of 2225 🔗

Yes. The moment my church “elders” said that “the government says we can’t sing” I shouted across the Zoom meeting “THIS IS SATANIC! I won’t be coming back until this instruction is rescinded!”

No singing, indeed! We never had such a disgusting restriction in WWII.

172434 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Ed Phillips, 4, #1034 of 2225 🔗

May God bless you and guide you.

172483 ▶▶ Sara, replying to Ed Phillips, 2, #1035 of 2225 🔗

I will certainly pray. I’m longing to be able to sing praises to God again.

172502 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Ed Phillips, 9, #1036 of 2225 🔗

https://haveyenotread.com/occult-ritual-transformation-and-coronavirus/

As you are a practising Christian, I hope you find this a stimulating read. The masks have significance beyond what is usually discussed on this forum. Some of your congregation have been converted into a Satanic cult.

172540 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Richard O, 8, #1037 of 2225 🔗

Spot on.

Some good reads out there about the psychological impact of mask wearing.

Few quotes from the results I looked at (the highlighting is from the sites, not me as I can’t change them):

The entire point of occult ritual mask-wearing is to hammer home to your subconsciousness — until it becomes completely true in your daily life — the idea that things are no longer the same, and will never be the same again.”

Through the wearing of the mask, the occult ritualists have created an army of “Karens” – programmed automatons who take the ritual so seriously that they feel personally and physically threatened when you don’t. And they don’t mind telling you so. Often vigorously.”

“you, being mouth-masked, are no longer the person you used to be. You’re no longer a designated mouthpiece of God on this earth. You’re suddenly demoted and re-assigned to the position of obedient subject.  “

Symbolically, you become a serf in the new order. That’s your new role…your new identity… as represented by the wearing of mask.

The wearing of the mask is simply part of the initiation ritual used to visually and psychologically signal your consent to this new arrangement. Yes, by wearing the mask, you’re signaling your consent to accept a new and very different position in a new global order.

Instead of being a sovereign representative of the Most High God and His Word on this earth, in essence, you agree to become a willing subject — a slave — to the very enemies of God and His Christ. Masked, you’re now willingly serving the enemy’s purposes, and no longer God’s.

When you obediently put the mask over your mouth, you’re symbolically saying to the ritualists, “ I admit my words no longer have any purpose or relevance in this life. My sole purpose now is obedience to your words and commands .”

And in raising themselves to the position of your new sovereign, and muzzling you like a dog in the process , they alchemically create a new you in a new role under new rulers . That’s the alchemical transformational change involved in the ritual.\

They’re quite literally attempting to take the place of God in your life, and make you their willing subject. They’re becoming your instead-of-Christ. Your antichrist.
And by placing the mask on your face, you’re becoming their unwitting faithful servant. You’re being ritually initiated into the new order. You may not realize it.

But in occult magic, the victim doesn’t have to be knowledgeable of the meaning behind what he or she is being told to do. The performance of the ritual itself – on demand — is all that matters.”

Through the wearing of the mask, the occult ritualists have created an army of “Karens” – programmed automatons who take the ritual so seriously that they feel personally and physically threatened when you don’t. And they don’t mind telling you so. Often vigorously.

You might want to think about those dozens of online videos showing fully-masked hospital nurses and hospital workers participating in elaborately choreographed Tik-Tok dance videos, while simultaneously thousands of hapless coronavirus victims are supposedly dying cruel deaths and being stacked up like cord wood in those very same hospitals. Yes, a veritable masked dance of death , just like you see in the movies. What’s more, by adding dance to the mask-wearing, the new slaves show their willingness to entertain their captors – to become little more than flesh play-sports to them — just as the Babylonian soldiers of old tried to force the Israelite captives to entertain them with music.

All very strange but I can see the links behind the scenes on what is going on or am I getting all metaphysical in my old dotage?

172783 ▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1038 of 2225 🔗

This is absolutely accurate. It is amazingly dangerous, literally, to aquiesce in this.

172975 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Awkward Git, #1039 of 2225 🔗

The Mask is indeed just a Gessler’s hat. It has already been compared to the Hitler salute.
On top of that, it’s also medically dangerous to its wearer though.

I posted a comment that confirms what you state here:
Things shall never get back to normal, as demanded by the new Gods.
Germany’s equivalent of Devi&Ferguson has confirmed this and his God complex in an article at Die Welt today.
Emergency situation and powers forever!
https://www.welt.de/kultur/plus217317742/Christian-Drosten-Ausnahmezustand-fuer-immer.html#Comments

172503 ▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Ed Phillips, 1, #1040 of 2225 🔗

it is always tough being the different one – the one on the edge of reason. Trouble is the edge is where the reason is, just no-one seems to want to look.

172512 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Ed Phillips, 7, #1041 of 2225 🔗

Not been religious for many many years since I was thrown out of Sunday school for asking why? too many times and could not accept what I was told on faith – see always been an awkward git.

Easy answer to your predicament – stop following restrictions you do not believe in and stand up for what you believe is right even if it has a personal cost.

But the is easier said than done.

Ask yourself “what would Jesus do?”

Hold 2 separate services – one for the masked, one for sceptics even if this is short it will be appreciated.

I was in a similar predicament many years ago, had big problems at work that were major and could have led to a Deepwater Horizon/Piper Alpha scenario.

Stood my ground. Was proven correct after the company and contractor threatened me with all sorts of “punishments” and so on.

Wife told me “do what is right. I will back you even if we do risk everything we own.” We risked everything fro 2 years.

Won after many arguments with high power lawyers because I had a bot of paper by a 3rd party inspector stating the contractor and their equipment “was not fit for purpose”.

5 little words. Big Impact.

Make a fact sheet up – lots of them on here that rips everything from government to shreds.

If the sheeple part of your congregation can take idiocy like masks on faith then they can take a few hard home truths as their behaviour as this is not very Christian is it?

It’s more heartless to force someone to do muzzle up for your own protection as you are scared of living and dying and not very Christian.

By standing up for those who are exempt your are a better Christian than the sheeple so stuff ’em.

172666 ▶▶▶ Sara, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1042 of 2225 🔗

You’d have to do the masked one first, because the rule followers/ terrified ones would need the church to be spotlessly clean and untouched.

172711 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1043 of 2225 🔗

Of course Jesus would be faced with a £10000 fine for not sticking to the rule of 6 (12 disciples), large crowds not social distancing (feeding the 5000, wedding in Canaan).

173590 ▶▶▶ Ajb, replying to Awkward Git, #1044 of 2225 🔗

I think it may be particularly difficult for those who genuinely believe that they have a duty to care for others because of their faith, especially when the narrative is framed as ‘my mask protects YOU’ (however wrong that might be), and the media took great delight way, way back in publicising the fact that some of the super spreading events (if that was indeed what they were) were associated with a church in South Korea and an evangelical conference in France. I can understand, though struggle with, what’s going on. And I confess, I did cover my face at a service on Sunday in a different place. I have no grounds for exemption, and I thought it would have been hypocritical of me to refuse to wear a mask elsewhere, when others are prepared to wear one when I’m preaching, because it’s what they have to do to meet together. I wish people were free to simply choose, but at the moment here, that’s not an option.
By the way, I’m sorry you were made to feel that questioning was wrong – questions are growth points, and necessary for maturity! Ministers need the people who ask the whys? And why nots? To keep them maturing too.

174026 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Ajb, #1045 of 2225 🔗

Everyone has grounds for exemption. Worth reading the legislation.

172517 ▶▶ annie, replying to Ed Phillips, 9, #1046 of 2225 🔗

You have my deepest sympathy and my prayers. I have just resolved not to attend my local church ever again, because the cowardly negativity of our bishop, archdeacon and rector has robbed the services of all meaning, and the hideous desecration of the Covid ‘precautions’ junk has ruined the noble interior of a building which is now attended only by faceless, mumbling zombies.
This must be the nadir of the Anglican church. Either it will emerge transformed, or it will not emerge at all. I have come to think that God’s plan may involve the latter.
Do you know the blog ‘All things lawful and honest’? You may find some consolation there, particularly from the valiant and clear-speaking Archdeacon of Hastings.

172534 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Ed Phillips, 4, #1047 of 2225 🔗

To thine own self be true.

God bless.

172557 ▶▶ Alan P, replying to Ed Phillips, 1, #1048 of 2225 🔗

Try a different religion? Buddhism? Or go Atheist?

172592 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Alan P, 1, #1049 of 2225 🔗

Or find a nearby mount, start giving (maskless) sermons on it? What could they do to you?

172559 ▶▶ James007, replying to Ed Phillips, 6, #1050 of 2225 🔗

Thank you for sharing this. I have a great deal of sympathy. This overbearing, authoritarian response has caused so much damage. It puts vicars in a very tough position.

I am no longer able to go to church, as my autistic son doesn’t understand why there is no singing and worshiping, no children’s group, or why he isn’t allowed to sit in the children’s area and look at the books. I really miss the diverse fellowship – simply talking to other believers and sharing encouragement and blessing. I realise now that this was my main reason for going to church, to be part of a community.

I am hugely disappointed in Justin Welby and the senior bishops for so willingly complying with restrictions which have caused so much loneliness, isolation and fear.

172572 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Ed Phillips, 3, #1051 of 2225 🔗

Given the supine submission of the Church to the state diktats, I would also encourage you ask questions of your superiors in the ecclesiastical hierarchy. Do all of them actually worship God, or something else?

My thoughts are with you. I would offer you my prayers but that would be disingenuous since I do not follow any faith. I do however have a strong interest in metaphysical inquiry.

172583 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to Ed Phillips, -4, #1052 of 2225 🔗

People also believe that a cracker turns into the body of Jesus. Religious people are credulous, I’m afraid, so I’m not surprised many – but not all – religious people have bought the COVID story.

172674 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Ed Phillips, #1053 of 2225 🔗

It is a shame that some of your members are now part of a cult. Reminds me of the witch trials in the 1600s. The cruelty and unkindness I’ve seen from some cult followers is astounding.

172710 ▶▶ Sara, replying to Ed Phillips, 4, #1054 of 2225 🔗

The point at which you broke down with sadness will, I presume, have been a moment of heartfelt prayer to God. I wept and prayed, when that video of a care-home resident talking to her son, and wanting to reach and touch him, went round on twitter last week. I take some comfort in that some of the people (not in a church setting) that are fighting the current restrictions, are Christians. I haven’t looked at the upcoming lectionary, but any gospel readings which emphasise the humanity of Jesus and the way he touched people when he healed them, may provide you with an opportunity to bring people back to connecting with each other as human beings.
I will pray for you, for wisdom and for my vicar (very different views) who believes that restraining from touching someone at this time is an expression of love, and for all others in the church, that God can touch people’s hearts and show the way forward.
God bless.

172721 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Ed Phillips, 6, #1055 of 2225 🔗

The biggest burden is on those like yourself who are not only charged with following the rules but also with enforcing them because of your position. There are many in that very awkward situation, forced to collaborate in an endeavour they don’t believe in. It is very very hard to resist when more than yourself is at stake.

And yet if as a priest you are unable to stand up for your belief, then what hope is there for anyone else?

I hope you find the strength to stick to your principles and do the right thing. It will be an inspiration to others.

172759 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Ed Phillips, 8, #1056 of 2225 🔗

I sympathise enormously. Unfortunately swathes of the population have been hypnotised by the fear campaign. I’m not a Christian but I love churches, especially cathedrals, for their welcoming shadowy places for doubters. When the Archbishop of Canterbury decreed the closure of churches it felt like the end of an era to me. There’s a lovely short story by the Danish author Johannes V. Jensen in which the forest, the sacred space for the pagan Vikings, becomes a medieval cathedral, the trunks of the trees changing to columns of stone, the canopy to the vaulted ceilings and so on. If you can’t go to church for comfort and peace, what’s the point?

I suppose that if the congregation gives the preacher grief for preaching humanity, the preacher just has to – as Churchill put it – “keep on buggering on”. One quiet person that day might have been comforted or encouraged. The loud ones may even have more doubts than they show.

172830 ▶▶ davews, replying to Ed Phillips, 6, #1057 of 2225 🔗

I find myself in a similar situation. Most of our church are addicted to the rules and anybody who disagrees is an outcast. There is talk on our Zoom services on how useful it has been to keep in touch over telephone and Zoom yet I feel unable to make my real feelings clear. Resisting telephoning my pastoral visitor to let her know how upset I am these days and that the church is doing nothing whatsoever to help people like me. The church more than anyone should be going out of their way to say how unjust these restrictions are and how many are deeply in depression, but no, it is all about keeping to the rules and killing the nasty virus. Praying for myself and will pray also for you and others in the same situation, but I find praying for other members of my own church, that I have been with for many years, very hard. Why is Jesus allowing this?

172857 ▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Ed Phillips, 1, #1058 of 2225 🔗

I’m not nor have ever been a christian but if you believe that what is going on is wrong ,then surely Christ would want you to stand up for what’s right .Better to be at peace with yourself and God than the government .Put your hand on your heart and speak truthfully to your flock and surely they will follow you .

172916 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ed Phillips, #1059 of 2225 🔗

Might there be a compromise by letting the people who want to wear masks sit on one side of the church and the unmasked on the other?? or would that just make things worse and be too ‘us v them’?

If (or rather when) the unmasked do not get sick, then maybe the mask-wearers will become less scared?

173552 ▶▶ Ajb, replying to Ed Phillips, #1060 of 2225 🔗

I confess to being really glad that I retired at the end of last year, as it would have broken my heart not to be able to do for my congregation the things I had done for 20 years. A huge part of my sadness about the whole Covid madness is to do with the churches inability to be a prophetic voice, or to speak the truth to power, instead, they seemed to shut the door and walk away at the time when they should have been offering hope and consolation. I am helping out a bit now in a congregation which pushed to reopen. Yes, they wear masks, no, we don’t sing. We are having short reflective services – don’t want people sitting too long in masks. I suspect most of the people coming are sceptical, but are prepared to put up with the denominations restrictions, because gathering together as the family of God is closer to what they need than Zoom services. At least I don’t have to wear a mask when taking the service. It’s not what I would like things to be, but at the moment, I’ll do what I can. And, yes, I’ll hold you in my prayers – I think this time is particularly hard for those of us who don’t buy into the official narrative when so many, inside and outside the churches do.

172375 p02099003, #1061 of 2225 🔗
172383 annie, replying to annie, 17, #1062 of 2225 🔗

Don’t go to sea.
Or if you do, don’t get into difficulties.
Or if you do, don’t get into difficulties near Tenby.
Member of lifeboat crew just tested positive. Entire crew quarantined, lifeboat house closed for ‘deep cleaning’, lifeboat unavailable for a week.
If you need help you’ll have to wait for the next nearest boat, always assuming that one is not locked up as well.

The RNLI. Saving lies at sea.

172409 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to annie, 2, #1063 of 2225 🔗

If you were drowning would you want to run the risk of catching Covid off your saviour?

172437 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Cicatriz, 5, #1064 of 2225 🔗

I’d rather die than catch Covid.

172546 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #1065 of 2225 🔗

I think this is a T-shirt slogan in the making!

172649 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Mr Dee, #1066 of 2225 🔗

Well, you will then.

172417 ▶▶ Basics, replying to annie, #1067 of 2225 🔗

A week now is it? I though 14 days was more the thing..

172384 Neil Hartley, replying to Neil Hartley, 2, #1068 of 2225 🔗

There’s a link to a Daily Mail article above about hospitalisations. Are they counting the numbers of people who have been admitted because of Covid-19 symptoms or, if you are admitted with a heart attack and subsequently “test positive”, are they counting that as a Covid-19 hospitalisation (which was the case in Scotland)? There’s a massive difference. Does anyone know?

172390 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Neil Hartley, 3, #1069 of 2225 🔗

Of course they are, ingrowing toenail + highly unreliable PCR test = COVID,

172396 ▶▶▶ Neil Hartley, replying to stefarm, #1070 of 2225 🔗

do you know for sure though?

172408 ▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Neil Hartley, 4, #1071 of 2225 🔗

We need to compare the pattern of hospitalizations this Autumn with that in previous years.

However, the untreated and undiaagnosed cancers (plus other illnesses) which have accumulated, will muddy the waters.

I would expect cancer mortality to begin rising appreciably quite soon due to all those postponed operations and screenings.

172424 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Neil Hartley, #1072 of 2225 🔗

Nope but I wouldn’t put it past them

172463 ▶▶▶▶ DocRC, replying to Neil Hartley, 1, #1073 of 2225 🔗

Every patient going in to hospital for whatever reason is tested (these are the pillar 1 tests). If they are +ve they are counted in the stats and included in the COVID cases even if they were admitted for a heart attack or being injured in a road traffic accident.

172469 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Neil Hartley, 1, #1074 of 2225 🔗

It was admitted in Ireland so. You can be sure it’s the same in the UK. From the horses mouth. It’s the WHO policyy they follow

https://youtu.be/4ZolPvWW8oo

172472 ▶▶▶▶ BobT, replying to Neil Hartley, #1075 of 2225 🔗
172398 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Neil Hartley, 1, #1076 of 2225 🔗

Knowing what we know about the presentation os the statistics since this episode began, I can make a very good guess on that.

172412 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Neil Hartley, #1077 of 2225 🔗

Have a look here, Nick. https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-hospital-activity/

You can download the daily spreadsheet; it’s the link called Daily Admissions 6 October 2020 .

Look at the descriptions for the 5 tables. Note the word ‘estimate’.

172465 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Neil Hartley, 2, #1078 of 2225 🔗

And how many get the virus while in hospitals?

172554 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to Neil Hartley, #1080 of 2225 🔗

Everyone who goes into hospital is tested. You go in because you had a stroke, test positive, and you’re a CV19 case statistic.

172386 p02099003, 1, #1081 of 2225 🔗
172395 zacaway, replying to zacaway, 23, #1082 of 2225 🔗

I sent this to my MP today:

Dear Vicky Foxcroft,

Thank you for taking the time to reply and outline your and the Labour party’s position. I am glad to hear that you will continue to do all you can to hold the Government to account.

I would like to bring to your attention a statement made in the Commons last week by Tobias Ellwood MP:

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2020-09-28/debates/D4275E96-C0FB-49CA-8031-E8B3F4C8B680/Covid-19#contribution-C78AA527-2CF7-484A-B251-2847C99D8EE5

In particular this sentence:

I believe that the biggest challenge will be in managing the transition period—potentially up to a year—when parts of our society have been liberated from the threat ​of covid-19 and seek to return to normality, but those who have yet to be vaccinated are still subject to social distancing rules.

It appears to me that Mr Ellwood imagines the creation of a two-tier society in which people who have been vaccinated are granted freedom to live life normally, whereas those who have not will still have to live under social restrictions. As Shadow Minister for Disabled People, I’m sure you must be aware that there are medical reasons why some people – through disability or other condition – are unsuitable to take a vaccine and that therefore if the Government were to adopt the policy that Mr Ellwood describes, this would inevitably discriminate against some disabled people on an ongoing basis.

Furthermore, despite the fact that vaccines are an amazing discovery that have saved countless lives, we still hold the principle that any medical treatment requires the consent of the patient, without coercion, as an important part of medical ethics and international human rights law:

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/consent-to-treatment/

One of the Labour Party’s proudest achievements while in Government was to introduce fundamental human rights into UK law, so I trust that you and the party will uphold these fundamental rights, and will not allow them to be easily discarded.

Would you be able to clarify if this is indeed a policy the Government is considering and the implications of it?

Kind regards,

And after the usual form reply, I received an actual reply:

Thank you for your further email.

Yes I will certainly raise this with Tobias Ellwood. Would you be happy for me to pass your comments to him?

To which I replied yes. So we’ll see…

172402 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to zacaway, 1, #1083 of 2225 🔗

Well done.

172416 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to zacaway, 8, #1084 of 2225 🔗

I wrote to him about this and he replied that I had overstepped the mark and at no point had he talked about compulsory vaccinations. But but, I replied, they are compulsory if you want a normal life!

172426 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Dan Clarke, 10, #1085 of 2225 🔗

What Ellwood describes is clearly coercion. It’s about as coercive as it gets.

172430 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #1086 of 2225 🔗

Yes, that is a slippery reply, which is why I talked about coercion and discrimination rather than compulsion.

172481 ▶▶ Basics, replying to zacaway, 2, #1087 of 2225 🔗

Brilliant Zacaway. Great.

172399 Biker, replying to Biker, 30, #1088 of 2225 🔗

Turns out Fife isn’t in Forth Valley and so we won’t be closing the pubs. Come to Fife it’s just as pish as the rest of Scotland but you can get a drink. We’ve all the usual delights here. We’ve streets full of begging junky scum, Romanian gypsies begging or whoring out their women, fat mingers in leggings so you can see their bulging vulvas as the gracelessly wobble down the street with their ugly children named Jordan or Kyle. Greggs, off course. Millions of charity shops that stink of stale sweat, pound shops and arcades. Oh and who could forget a fucking Vape shop every fifty yards. Yes come to Fife, I’d particularly recommend Kirkcaldy or Glenrothes, both fine examples of Soviet style architecture. The people there are dirt poor, toothless and buy scratch cards. The local diversity shop will stock a fine array of cheap ciders, Buckfast and cigarettes you’ve never heard of. Plus they often have a great deal on fizzy juice. Oh yes it’s lovely. I’ll not mention where i live because there are a handful of places in Fife where the scum can’t afford to live and i live there.

172410 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Biker, 4, #1089 of 2225 🔗

And Sturgeon thinks she’s a world leader!!

172442 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Dan Clarke, 15, #1090 of 2225 🔗

I went to school with girls like Sturgeon and i blame myself for the kind of women she is. You see being good looking, tall and outgoing she could only dream of me offering her the slightest attention which i would never give. I only went for the Conservative girls from nice families not your council house scum.You’ve got to watch the quiet ones is a truism that’s always correct. This set these type of woman on a path of hatred for men. Notice the kind of soy boy these types end up with. They so want to be dominated by a man but end up with some tosser who never shaves properly and ride bicycles around town. This drives them mad but they get to act aggressive so they feel powerful. I know girls from my school who even to this day blush when they see me, i wouldn’t be surprised if they faint too. My grandmother used to say that boy will be a heartbreaker when he’s grown up and when i do i’m sure i will.

172449 ▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Biker, 12, #1091 of 2225 🔗

Well, maybe you could contact the Chief Minister (or whatever she’s called) and offer to give her what she wanted all those years ago.

Do it for Scotlaand lad!

172491 ▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to calchas, 14, #1092 of 2225 🔗

Upon reflection the Lockdown isn’t that bad after all.

172639 ▶▶▶▶ Graham, replying to Biker, 1, #1093 of 2225 🔗

I sympathise, but why is riding a bicycle around town a bad thing? Just curious.

172704 ▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Graham, 1, #1094 of 2225 🔗

There is nothing wrong with riding a bicycle it’s just the kind of lycra fag with their camera strapped to their coupon i despise.

172653 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Biker, 2, #1095 of 2225 🔗

no – she is one of those ugly shorty and chubby little girls who thought she was too posh for the rest of the class and so was not included in their games at playtime so she would tell tales on them to teacher whenever she could. Consequently she was shunned and hopefully had her head pushed down the toilet.
Consequently now she is grown up and has a little bit of power she is taking the opportunity to get her own back with everyone that was nasty to her as a child .
Sort of like the film Carrie, only less believable

172418 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Biker, 4, #1096 of 2225 🔗

That’s had me and Mr TT in stitches!

172428 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Biker, 5, #1097 of 2225 🔗

this post wins the comments today hahaha

172431 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to Biker, #1098 of 2225 🔗

Please, please, please bring back It’s A Knockout, I would love to see the good people of Fife attempt it for my amusement.

172479 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Biker, 1, #1099 of 2225 🔗

At least you have Knockhill..

172401 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 6, #1100 of 2225 🔗

Here’s a prediction; the mad woman will get away with it this time – ‘Lockdown 2’. At some point, maybe fairly soon, the “cases” and death counts will reduce to what they were in July, or thereabouts; not as a result of any of these measures, of course. Then they’ll start going up again (Dec/Jan?). She’ll try for ‘Lockdown 3’, but she won’t get away with it. The sheeple will have had enough. It will have taken a long time, but they will have finally woken up to the fact that the virus is not going away, no matter what Krankie does.

172429 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1101 of 2225 🔗

Is it about a ‘virus’ or controls?

172456 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Tenchy, 4, #1102 of 2225 🔗

My bet is that Lockdown 2 will remain until well into 2021 across the UK.

172507 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Tenchy, #1103 of 2225 🔗

Unfortunately I’ve no doubt a lot of the sheepies will be thanking her for protecting them against the virus.

172523 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to arfurmo, #1104 of 2225 🔗

Shortly before they get it anyway.

172406 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 16, #1105 of 2225 🔗

I’ve just had 3 parcels delivered in about 10 minutes, 2 x Amazon couriers both muzzled, left the package on the doorstep and ran away. DPD – wearing usual shorts and a t shirt no muzzle, handed me the package ‘here you go pal – cheers’ smile and a wave.

172421 ▶▶ Ed Phillips, replying to stefarm, 3, #1106 of 2225 🔗

Yep, DPD lad was the same with me yesterday.

172550 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to stefarm, 1, #1107 of 2225 🔗

The last 2 Amazon orders I’ve had have been for age-restricted items, requiring proof of age and identity upon delivery. Neither delivery person spoke sufficient English to understand what was going on. For one of them, we had to take their device off them to input the details correctly. Both were masked up.

173036 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark H, #1108 of 2225 🔗

Machetes ? Strychnine ?

172662 ▶▶ mjr, replying to stefarm, #1109 of 2225 🔗

they are all Kev’s .. What keeps him going? his family, key workers, the NHS. i really some huge crate in the Warehouse to fall on his head . whilst all his workmates silently try and warn him through their muzzles

172420 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #1110 of 2225 🔗

Why is Scotland going anti alcohol, is it to appease her new inhabitants?

172441 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Dan Clarke, 5, #1111 of 2225 🔗

Interesting to see if there is any reaction to this? So far, many in Scotland – certainly where I live – are totally mask compliant & agree whole- heartedly with her ‘cautious approach’. But this is now stopping drinking … the Scots and not drinking?

172446 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 7, #1112 of 2225 🔗

Guess its the give an inch and they’ll take a mile thing, always knew the compliant would be our downfall. Wearing masks is the most obvious outward statement of obedience we could do.

172478 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #1113 of 2225 🔗

Yep, full compliance and obedience has been the sheeple’s downfall, naive to think it would do any good. Wearing a mask is like sticking fingers in ears and hoping it will all go away.

172448 ▶▶▶ Polemon2, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 2, #1114 of 2225 🔗

Alcohol has been an NHS target for some years but kept low key because they know how the public would react to an overt campaign.

172506 ▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Polemon2, 1, #1115 of 2225 🔗

Why not off licences and supermarkets, not that I agree, but more is bought that way than pubs

172510 ▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #1116 of 2225 🔗

And they probably have more footfall than pubs, can’t the pesky virus be caught in the supermarket??

172669 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #1117 of 2225 🔗

so buying a bottle of eldorado or buckfast from an offie and then lying in the gutter smashed is still ok as long as you are socially distanced? Rab C Nesbitt is ok then

172522 ▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 2, #1118 of 2225 🔗

Sadly I expect they will take it as all those lockdowners are simply convinced that all measures are “temporary”. Just wait for alcohol to be banned until Christmas when they can have their little treat for being good boys and girls!

172477 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #1119 of 2225 🔗

Smacks of the sort of thing the Protestants would do to piss off the Catholics.

172425 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 11, #1120 of 2225 🔗

Had car serviced today. Always used an ‘on your premises’ company. Was dreading that they would arrived muzzled. I was so wrong, complete sceptic. Hugely enjoyable chat while he worked away.

They have always been excellent value and reliable and all ex main dealership mechanics. If you live in their catchment area and need car work done, I highly recommend https://www.nationalvehicleservicing.com/

172498 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1121 of 2225 🔗

Top tip, thank you… I don’t think I’ll be gracing my local dealership anytime soon.

172433 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #1122 of 2225 🔗

Wow. On state pension, I have to budget £6 per day for my food!

The University of East Anglia initially charged the students living in its self-catered accommodation halls £252 for two weeks of supplies

Elsewhere Lancaster University has charged £17.95 a day for meal supplies for those who are in self-isolation.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/06/universities-accused-cashing-charging-self-isolating-students/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=CampaignMonitor_Editorial&utm_campaign=LNCH%20%2020201007%20%20House%20Ads%20%20SM+CID_8d2bb357bfb8e9e3ed7d323ae892e7ec

172461 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #1123 of 2225 🔗

Hopefully 75% is booze

173030 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #1124 of 2225 🔗

Meh. Weed.

172488 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1125 of 2225 🔗

Yes but crunchy nuts and pizzas and cheesy diddlydums are more expensive than fruit and veg.

172511 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, #1126 of 2225 🔗

Is this over and above what they normally pay? Are all halls self-catering now?

172525 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Cheezilla, #1127 of 2225 🔗

Rip-off! I spend about £20 a week on food as a student and a good chunk of that is snacky food I could do without. UEA in particular seems to have brought back its students to extort money out of them?!

172440 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 7, #1128 of 2225 🔗

The Impact of COVID-19 on the Global Struggle for Freedom

The COVID-19 pandemic has fueled a crisis for democracy around the world. Since the coronavirus outbreak began, the condition of democracy and human rights has grown worse in 80 countries. Governments have responded by engaging in abuses of power, silencing their critics, and weakening or shuttering important institutions, often undermining the very systems of accountability needed to protect public health.

https://freedomhouse.org/report/special-report/2020/democracy-under-lockdown

172450 ▶▶ jb12, replying to Sarigan, 3, #1129 of 2225 🔗

So the UK has ‘about the same’ level of freedom? No mention on censorship by transnational companies like YouTube and Twitter either?

172444 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #1130 of 2225 🔗

Picking up on krankies latest from the comments below. Anyone know where BYOB stands in all this?

172460 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, #1131 of 2225 🔗

Plus I guess no evidence was given for how much death would be stopped by the lunatic measure.

172632 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Basics, 1, #1132 of 2225 🔗

“If only one life is saved” it’s worth destroying the entire country.

172495 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Basics, 4, #1133 of 2225 🔗

Bash Yer Own Boabie?

I think it’s still allowed, so long as it’s not in a group.

172499 ▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to AidanR, #1134 of 2225 🔗

Best laugh I’ve had all day. Thanks for that.

Social distancing wouldn’t be a problem…

172520 ▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to AidanR, #1135 of 2225 🔗

boabie bashing in groups greater than 6 is strictly forbidden as a hotbed for viral transmission and not even the covid type!

172528 ▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to AidanR, #1136 of 2225 🔗

I thought that a circle jerk of any size was still permitted 😉

172445 mattghg, replying to mattghg, 5, #1137 of 2225 🔗

I never really liked Peter Ebdon as a snooker player, but he definitely has his head screwed on right re: the coronapanic: https://twitter.com/pdebdon

172457 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to mattghg, 3, #1138 of 2225 🔗

He was on Talk Radio recently and definitely speaks well on matters. Fair play

172459 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to mattghg, 3, #1139 of 2225 🔗

Agree, he has gone up in my estimation big time

172681 ▶▶ Basics, replying to mattghg, 1, #1140 of 2225 🔗

He has been a pioneer talking truthfully from the start. He is impressive.

172458 Lydia, replying to Lydia, 1, #1141 of 2225 🔗

Possible local lockdown from this weekend for my area – Notts

172485 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Lydia, 2, #1142 of 2225 🔗

Creeping south by the week.

172496 ▶▶▶ Lydia, replying to DRW, 1, #1143 of 2225 🔗

The comments on Nottinghamshire live page are all blaming the students!

172464 nocheesegromit, replying to nocheesegromit, 4, #1144 of 2225 🔗

I’ve seen a figure that 80k died of the Hong Kong Flu in 1968. Does anyone have the source for this? I found it in this article which quotes government stats via the PA: https://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news/2020/03/03/history-of-major-virus-outbreaks-in-the-uk-in-recent-times/

172471 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to nocheesegromit, 5, #1145 of 2225 🔗

No but I lived though it, I was 19 -20 but at the time I never even noticed
it.

172497 ▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to Fingerache Philip., 6, #1146 of 2225 🔗

Quite so. My parents are a few years older, I would have been two or three at the time and I asked them the same question last time I saw them and their reply was, “We didn’t even blink”. Keep Calm & Carry On.

172518 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to The Filthy Engineer, 1, #1147 of 2225 🔗

Absolutely.

172553 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Fingerache Philip., 8, #1148 of 2225 🔗

I was 12 and we continued to go to school, no panic buying. The European cup final was at Wembley with 100000 spectators, following on from the fa cup final with another 100000 spectators. Woodstock took place and Frank Borman displayed flu symptoms on the way to the moon.

172610 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to p02099003, 3, #1149 of 2225 🔗

I honestly think that there are some people who don’t think anything nasty should ever happen and of course everyone will live forever.

172760 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1150 of 2225 🔗

If you bring children up as snowflakes, constantly over-protected, then you get very risk-averse adults….

172590 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #1151 of 2225 🔗

24/7 ‘news’ and the internet have enabled the propagandists and social engineers to create fear and mass compliance. Don’t think this would have been possible even 30 years ago.

172601 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Darryl, #1152 of 2225 🔗

How true.

172678 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Darryl, #1153 of 2225 🔗

Both items prepared the ground and are required elements for the lockdown/dribble of constant rules/laws/guidance/bs.

172688 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1154 of 2225 🔗

i had it .as a kid. that was the year when i spent christmas in bed with flu . But nothing else unusual

172808 ▶▶▶ davews, replying to Fingerache Philip., #1155 of 2225 🔗

1968 – first year at University, having the time of my life. For others it was the summer of love. And student unrest in Paris. Remember lots of that but cannot recall anything about some sort of virus going round.

172492 ▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to nocheesegromit, 2, #1156 of 2225 🔗

The Telegraph reports £80K UK deaths: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/02/britain-handled-1968-flu-epidemic-shutdown-avoided-second-wave/

Interestingly the Lancet reports only £30K UK deaths: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31201-0/fulltext

No idea which is correct – my parents who remember it say it was £80K, also that their lives carried on as normal.

172494 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to nocheesegromit, 1, #1157 of 2225 🔗

http://inproportion2.talkigy.com/asian_flu_1970.html but 30k talked about elsewhere. From v with ?

172508 ▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to arfurmo, #1158 of 2225 🔗

Thanks, the link I posted above shows the 80k as ‘Estimated attributable excess mortality’.

172504 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to nocheesegromit, 3, #1159 of 2225 🔗
172519 ▶▶ James007, replying to nocheesegromit, 7, #1160 of 2225 🔗

In case it is of interest, there were two influenza outbreaks which are sometimes confused. One was the Hong Kong Flu in 1968 (~80k) and the other was the Asian Flu in 1957 (~33k). When you consider deaths as a percentage of the population, they were both significantly worse than COVID-19.

My mum remembers Hong Kong Flu, as my nan was very ill with it for several days. People took care with hygiene (hand washing, most carried a hankie to catch sneezes). There were no panics, as people considered it normal to get these outbreaks from time to time.

172530 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to James007, 4, #1161 of 2225 🔗

NORMAL BEHAVIOUR.

172571 ▶▶ DeepBlueYonder, replying to nocheesegromit, 2, #1162 of 2225 🔗

According to Miller and Lee (1969), all cause excess deaths in Britain was 46,408 for the period December 1967 to March 1968, inclusive.

See: https://europepmc.org/backend/ptpmcrender.fcgi?accid=PMC2130729&blobtype=pdf

172467 Al T, replying to Al T, 7, #1163 of 2225 🔗

Hope to God Boris isn’t going to drag along in Nippy’s slipstream and start closing pubs and restaurants in England.

Interesting how many people I meet these days who, when I mention I’m sceptical about lockdown visibly relax. Hopefully a sea change is coming.

172475 Richard, replying to Richard, 6, #1165 of 2225 🔗

Why is this site not concentrating on exposing the fact that the ‘Corona crisis’ – which has actually already ended in the UK and across Europe, with tiny ‘Corona death’ numbers, most of which are fake, and not caused by the Corona virus – is being used as the tool, and cover story, for the installation of an Orwellian ‘New World Order’ of total control of the populations by the State?

172562 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Richard, 2, #1166 of 2225 🔗

Probably because not everyone agrees with that interpretation.

172584 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Richard, 2, #1167 of 2225 🔗

The evidence is certainly all there in plain site – World Economic Forum ‘Great Reset’ – people are still in complete denial even though there are advertising hoardings promoting it nationwide now. Prince Charles and Sir David Attenborough are the friendly faces chosen to front the roll out in the UK for what is essentially a technocratic take over of the world.

No idea how anyone can still be in denial about digital health passports being a condition of travel it was obvious back in April and it has all but been officially confirmed today.

172616 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Darryl, #1168 of 2225 🔗

But having a certain view is not a prerequisite for posting on the site. I’m sure there are other sites where you have to have the views you two mention.

172482 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 7, #1169 of 2225 🔗

In the fifties there was also the Asian flu but people just got on with their lives.

172536 ▶▶ Jakehadlee, replying to Fingerache Philip., 8, #1170 of 2225 🔗

And the 60s when at least 1 million (2 million in today’s population terms) and possibly as many as 4.5 million died worldwide. Woodstock was held in the middle of that one and no fucks were given.

Yet this is still apparently the biggest health emergency since 1918. No, I’m not sure either.

172566 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Jakehadlee, 4, #1171 of 2225 🔗

And then there was Measles, Diphtheria,Typhoid, TB and that’s just the ones I can just think of at the moment.
IT’S CALLED LIFE (AND DEATH)

172615 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #1172 of 2225 🔗

Exactly. I was a kid in the 60s. I got measles and chicken pox. No vaccines back then. Just stayed home in bed for a few days. I’m sure some people had it much worse than I did, but for the vast majority it was just something that happened.

172618 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to ConstantBees, 4, #1173 of 2225 🔗

There was actually “Measles parties” to spread it as fast as possible and to get it over with

172754 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Fingerache Philip., #1174 of 2225 🔗

Yes. And strangely I remember no one with autism or ADHD back in the 70s…

172630 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to ConstantBees, 2, #1175 of 2225 🔗

I got Chicken pox in 1963 aged 14, lost a stone in weight and had pustules in places I didn’t know I had; I even had them on the soles of my feet.
I had 2 weeks off school and got on with life LIKE PEOPLE SHOULD DO NOW.

172998 ▶▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1176 of 2225 🔗

Approx between 1.5 – 1.6 million people have died from TB worldwide per anum, the last few years,… the CDC recently est. in the United States, 13 million living with latent TB infection. does nobody has a plan to beat the disease? is it the fault of those who are not TB-secure? why didn’t anyone aim for zero tuberculosis?? 🙂

172563 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #1177 of 2225 🔗

Now there is an Agenda

172486 Richard, replying to Richard, -13, #1178 of 2225 🔗

Why are you asking for people’s names, and their email addresses, in order to post a comment?

Why are you not displaying the posts immediately – but are passing them to a moderator?

These facts make me not trust your site an inch – and thus, I will not be helping to publicize it.

172551 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Richard, 2, #1179 of 2225 🔗

This should only happen the first time you post. Having said that, there seemed to be a bug in the forum recently which meant I had to keep putting in my user name and email address to post, but it seems to have been cleared up now.

172752 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tenchy, #1180 of 2225 🔗

I think if you do not comment for over a certain number of hours, the system logs you out…?

And yes, if there are a lot of links in it I think your post goes to moderation..

172822 ▶▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Carrie, -1, #1181 of 2225 🔗

I first posted a month or so ago and it still take ages to get my post up ,it says awaiting approval and seems to take about 20 minutes and still won’t let me use the forum ,Have no idea what’s happening and am a luddite so can’t fix . Still enjoying using it .

172668 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Richard, 1, #1182 of 2225 🔗

If there are hyperlinks -3 or 4 or more- in your post they are held and released shortly after. I assume to guard against spam bots.

172751 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Richard, 1, #1183 of 2225 🔗

It’s to make sure you are not AI or a bot.

Standard for commenting on blogs etc.

172487 AnotherSceptic, replying to AnotherSceptic, 42, #1184 of 2225 🔗

“Huge rise as 1,054 new cases of coronavirus recorded overnight in Scotland

1,054 new cases of coronavirus have been announced across Scotland in the past 24 hours – this is a huge rise in the daily figures.

Sadly one death has been recorded in the last 24 hours.

319 people are currently being treated in hospital with 28 in intensive care.”

Un-fucking believable! I am truly done in with this shit show now.
Sturgeon the little Hitler has effectively, totally & utterly fucked the hospitality industry in the central belt of Scotland.

Pubs will close at 6pm this coming Friday & be closed for a minimum of 2 weeks to “try to stop the spread” of the fucking virus.

When is there going to be an uprising against this total shit?
As mentioned on here, it’s not about “Deaths” now, it’s about “Cases”….

28 currently in intensive care with coronavirus, TWENTY EIGHT!! From a population of
5.45 million people in Scotland!!

I am really really losing the will to live now, all because of the fucking common cold/flu virus.

I am truly lost for words now.

172500 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to AnotherSceptic, 12, #1185 of 2225 🔗

319 people who have tested positive whilst already in hospital!!!

172505 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to stefarm, 14, #1186 of 2225 🔗

Of course – it’s a nosocomial virus

172608 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 7, #1187 of 2225 🔗

So close the damn hospitals to stop the spread. It’s not like we’d be much worse off than we are now.

172501 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to AnotherSceptic, 7, #1188 of 2225 🔗

On the bright side, it’s boom time for the pubs in Berwick – until Hancock scrambles to out-Sturgeon Sturgeon

172513 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to AnotherSceptic, 5, #1189 of 2225 🔗

But if you consider that 1 COVID death is equal to 100 non – COVID deaths…… No sorry it’s still a load of old shite!!

172535 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to JHuntz, 5, #1190 of 2225 🔗

100 people are giving up the ghost for every covid death. That’s no statistical stretch at all.
Come over the border. You can even help yourselves to a few sheep like in the old days. We can have a drink and put the world right, make their ears burn in Holyrood and Westminster.

172516 ▶▶ Guirme, replying to AnotherSceptic, 22, #1191 of 2225 🔗

She is a mad and evil witch completely self obsessed with her own importance and filled with a heartless, callous disregard for the welfare of other people. She is destroying jobs, physical health and mental health while consigning us all to a miserable existence. Yet again I have been in the heartbreaking situation of dealing with members of my family in tears. Does Sturgeon care? No, of course not. Surely this time the supine Scottish people will wake up to the evil that is in our midst.

172529 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Guirme, 6, #1192 of 2225 🔗

I’m sorry and I really hope people will wake up

172532 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to AnotherSceptic, 7, #1193 of 2225 🔗

WHO is backing her?

172542 ▶▶▶ DespairSquid, replying to Dan Clarke, 5, #1194 of 2225 🔗

I see what you did there… 😉

#WHOcares

172533 ▶▶ Schrodinger, replying to AnotherSceptic, 11, #1195 of 2225 🔗

Interestingly I posted this (below) on the BBC Scotland News page on FB in response to the news about closing pubs and linked to the Great Barrington Declaration. In the past I’d have been called a ‘granny killer’ or something similar. My comment currently has 30+ likes.

I do sense a watershed moment with that declaration allowing scientists and doctors who felt alone to know be able to speak out.

Meanwhile over 4000 doctors and over 3000 scientists, many of whom are very eminent, calling for an end to lockdown

“Those who are not vulnerable should immediately be allowed to resume life as normal.”
Time for the Scottish government to wake up and follow the science (not electioneering) and realise that you cannot outrun a virus (whilst decimating the economy at the same time)

https://gbdeclaration.org/

172611 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Schrodinger, 3, #1196 of 2225 🔗

I posted the same thing on the Daily Mail. 12 likes, no dislikes.

172567 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to AnotherSceptic, 2, #1197 of 2225 🔗

Cue England to follow suit in a week.

172826 ▶▶ Edward, replying to AnotherSceptic, 8, #1198 of 2225 🔗

I thought Johnson had become mentally unbalanced, but Sturgeon seems to be completely insane. What I don’t understand is, why aren’t people rioting on the streets of Edinburgh and Glasgow?

172526 Sarigan, 10, #1199 of 2225 🔗

Bhattacharya brilliant on Talk Radio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEr5T_PVhA8

One horrific stat. 1 in 4 considered suicide in the US in June.

172527 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1200 of 2225 🔗

One to sign and share:

Petition Nullify non-disclosure agreements/gagging orders for NHS staff for covid-19
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/550598

172695 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, #1201 of 2225 🔗

Signed.Good luck.

172537 Seansaighdeoir, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 4, #1202 of 2225 🔗

A wonderful advert for independence. Imagine the hordes lining up to be led into the brave new world under the dear leader…

172604 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 6, #1203 of 2225 🔗

Even the DDR never acted like Sturgeon. This has long since not been about a virus. It’s political.

172689 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 2, #1204 of 2225 🔗

She’s not a nationalist she’s a globalist.She rather suck off the Brussels teat that London’s

172544 Dan Clarke, 6, #1205 of 2225 🔗

Total S**t show. People stayed in at the start and they have continued relentlessly to treat us like c**p, no end in sight and they couldnt give a toss throw out ‘cases’ as if they matter, all to follow the plan

172547 court, replying to court, 9, #1206 of 2225 🔗

I got laughed at when I started stockpiling booze last month. I don’t put anything past these bastards nowadays.

172573 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to court, #1207 of 2225 🔗

Yes, even Wetherspoons seems to have lost the plot now: https://twitter.com/CharlieEmma85/status/1313794071694114818

Now what are they going to be searching you for? A smartphone for scanning the tracing app if you claim not to have one?
And how are they going to carry out a socially distanced search?

172685 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Carrie, 1, #1208 of 2225 🔗

How the fuck do you search people in line with social distancing controls? Go go Gadget arms?

172548 arfurmo, 6, #1209 of 2225 🔗

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8815059/Nicola-Sturgeon-set-BAN-alcohol-Scotlands-pubs-force-6pm-closing.html “heaping pressure on Boris” -sadly he does seem to follow Wee Jimmie (face nappies in pubs springs to mind)

172549 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 22, #1210 of 2225 🔗

Having been in the car listening to the radio today, I can strongly recommend Talk Radio. It seems, from the two shows I heard today (one with Mike Graham, whom I was aware of) that it is the one part of the media to not only allow proper airing of sceptic arguments but to be strongly supportive of them, in parallel to the way BBC, Sky and ITV are strongly supportive of Lockdown Lunacy. Fantastic!

My only fear is that it can’t be long before Ofcom or a globalist buy-out close down this beacon of sanity.

172552 ▶▶ CGL, replying to OKUK, #1211 of 2225 🔗

They couldn’t silence JHB!!!!

172555 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to OKUK, 17, #1212 of 2225 🔗

Yeah, there is something very odd taking place at Talk Radio they appear to be a media organisation using critical thought.

172558 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to JHuntz, 1, #1213 of 2225 🔗

Julia H-B still thinks masks are ok though…

However, she does share gems like this: https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1313872191654711298

Seeing this pair of idiots, I’m wondering if they would drown if it rained?!

172574 ▶▶▶▶ Draper233, replying to Carrie, #1214 of 2225 🔗

Let’s hope so

172809 ▶▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Carrie, 3, #1215 of 2225 🔗

Julia H-B and Mike Graham were both supportive of the government at the start but have changed loads over time .It’s amazing how Mike Graham has changed in conversation with Hitchens ,they now have to invent things to disagree about .

172800 ▶▶ wat tyler, replying to OKUK, #1216 of 2225 🔗

I would second that . As far as i know all the presenters are sceptical to some degree .Check them out on youtube as you can watch all the interviews there that you missed earlier on radio .

172561 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 8, #1217 of 2225 🔗

Long Covid clinics being set up https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54449145
WHY? GP surgeries should manage this.

172568 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to p02099003, 17, #1218 of 2225 🔗

The spectre of so-called ‘Long COVID’ is the latest weapon to be deployed against the British people. It’s aimed mainly at young people, because the scum government has got wind of the fact that a large number of them are not toeing the COVID line.

172605 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Tenchy, 11, #1219 of 2225 🔗

How can they call it ‘Long Covid’ after only a few months. It took members of my family months to recover from Whooping Cough and Legionnaires Disease, but you don’t get ‘Long’ versions of these. Sounds like another propaganda scam.

173018 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Darryl, #1220 of 2225 🔗

Sounds like … sounds like ?!?! C’mon Darryl, more coffee.

🙂

172839 ▶▶ RickH, replying to p02099003, 1, #1221 of 2225 🔗

Propaganda

173084 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to p02099003, #1222 of 2225 🔗

BBC News just said hundreds of thousands could have Long Covid.

172565 BobT, 13, #1223 of 2225 🔗

All persons admitted to hospital with a positive test within past 14 days or who have tested positive on admittance for any cause are defined as a Covid case.

According to PHE Covid surveillance, the positivity rate for Pillar1 tests is 2.5%

According to NHS, total beds occupied in England for all causes is 110,000
According to PHE dashboard there are presently 2,800 Covid cases in hospital, or 2.5%.

It looks to me like almost all the recorded Covid hospitalisations are due to the definition and not people actually sick with Covid-19.

172569 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #1224 of 2225 🔗

Why is Covid being treated different from Hong Kong Flu?

172582 ▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Dan Clarke, 6, #1225 of 2225 🔗

Why is Covid being treated any differently from any normal seasonal flu that happens every year? Oh wait – are we going to be locked down for every pesky virus that comes along?

172606 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to HelzBelz, 3, #1226 of 2225 🔗

That’s been my fear from the outset. When the idiots realize they’ve been killing grannie every year since time immemorial they’ll use it as an excuse to keep all this insanity going.

172598 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #1227 of 2225 🔗

The global political desire to have a ‘Great Reset’ and the technological developments over the past 5 decades which make it easier to propagandise and control the world population.

172658 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #1228 of 2225 🔗

Because WEF and Bill Gates weren’t around then.

172804 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #1229 of 2225 🔗

because the Civil Service couldn’t work from home in ’68

172570 theanalyst, replying to theanalyst, 5, #1230 of 2225 🔗

Student Testing (again)

Every time I look at testing and rises in cases in any detail it keeps coming back to mass testing of students driving up the overall cases in Northern England and Scotland. I know Manchester well and 2/3 of the cases in the last 5 weeks are from student areas. Looking at Glasgow City the % of positive tests went up from around 5-7% to around 20 -22% in a step change over a few days in mid September when the students returned. Are they actually falling sick? I keep thinking of those three young UK teachers stuck in Italy for the last 2 months because they can’t for the life of them get a negative PCR test. On the bright side, once all the students have been tested they will run out of new cases!

172585 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to theanalyst, 1, #1231 of 2225 🔗

There was an interesting chart shared a few days ago showing the 30 most infected wards in the country, and I recognised about 25 of them as being areas with a high student density.

Herd immunity in action!

173073 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Now More Than Ever, #1232 of 2225 🔗

Most infected or most tested?

172602 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to theanalyst, #1233 of 2225 🔗

I’m not sure they will run out of cases since the PCR test will pick up fragments from past infection! They’ll call it “long” Covid — RNA fragments that keep getting picked up from people who were never sick but will test positive indefinitely.

172746 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #1234 of 2225 🔗

the PCR test will pick up fragments from past infection”

It may not even be from ‘past infection’ – just a random fragment.

That’s how bad this hypochondriac’s paradise has become.

173070 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to theanalyst, #1235 of 2225 🔗

Are they not testing students in the unis Down South?
Surely, there shouldn’t be any big difference in numbers.

172575 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 16, #1236 of 2225 🔗

The Great Barrington Declaration is not going well for the vested interests and their lackey ‘scientists’. It is simply too difficult to discredit three professors from Harvard, Stanford and Oxford, and the number of medical practitioners and scientists who have signed will start to rise sharply to a tipping point.

It is getting quite unpleasant. Hell hath no fury like an academic scorned. On Sky today we have had a rather ‘shouty’ Trish Greenhalgh and the media-frequenter, Dr Nathalie McDermott, who seems to have a knack of appearing in all manner of charity-supported health emergencies (Liberia, Macedonia), but who now, sadly has Long Covid.

172629 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #1237 of 2225 🔗

It’s not stopping the move to a China-like society though – this is a VERY WORRYING film from Carl Vernon on the introduction of cameras in UK towns to monitor social distancing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gm0VDVcuKeM

By get this – rectangles round people to measure distance… Now where have we seen films like that before?
Yes… China..
I feel sick…..

172659 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, 2, #1238 of 2225 🔗

The globalist snp minions who run Edinburgh declared edinburgh to be a smart city just a few weeks ago. Microphones on the street for direct contact to the council they said. Upgraded cctv too.

Please consider the policing required from the stepping stone of cctv recognising two people close together. The camera sees two close people, invasion of privacy but so what? The real trick comes when those to people are penalised – thats what this cctv AI means. It will also track your routine truman-like. Smart city.

173078 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Carrie, #1239 of 2225 🔗

Drip drip drip

173111 ▶▶ Old Mum, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1240 of 2225 🔗

Also on Ian Collins show on Talk Radio today – Deepti Gurdasani was interviewed and even Ian Collins said ‘she’s not happy’! Said Prof. Sunetra Gupta and others ‘fringe scientists’ – worth a listen, sorry don’t have a link.

172576 PowerCorrupts, replying to PowerCorrupts, 7, #1241 of 2225 🔗

.Petition by eminent epidemiologists including Prof Sunetra Gupta Oxford, Prof Michael Levitt etc: ‘As infectious disease epidemiologists and public health scientists we have grave concerns about the damaging physical and mental health impacts of the prevailing COVID-19 policies, and recommend an approach we call Focused Protection.’

PLEASE SIGN:

READ THE DECLARATION https://gbdeclaration.org

172580 ▶▶ PowerCorrupts, replying to PowerCorrupts, 1, #1242 of 2225 🔗

Sorry, should have said the Petition https://gbdeclaration.org is the Barrington Covention mentioned by Tyneside Tigress

172587 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to PowerCorrupts, #1243 of 2225 🔗

Have you been able to delete the credentials box, I can’t and obviously they arent mine

172594 ▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Dan Clarke, 5, #1244 of 2225 🔗

Just click on ‘member of the public’ further down.

172717 ▶▶ annie, replying to PowerCorrupts, 2, #1245 of 2225 🔗

Close on 80,000 signatures now from the public, some 10,000 from medics.

173057 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, 2, #1246 of 2225 🔗

Now that’s what I call doubling every day!

172578 HelzBelz, replying to HelzBelz, 12, #1247 of 2225 🔗

Had to go to the office yesterday and was horrified to be issued with a muzzle by the security guard who was clearly loving his new position of power. I was told I had to wear it if walking around but OK to remove whilst at a desk. As it’s a new job, I didn’t want to be too arsey so I did try and wear it. Felt sick walking around and couldn’t breathe. Solution was to hold it off my nose and mouth and rip it off as soon as I sat down. Won’t be going back there any time soon if mandatory maskdom is to continue…

172600 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to HelzBelz, 3, #1248 of 2225 🔗

Ahhhh. Masks. They don’t work. Ask Nicola.

172607 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Leemc23, #1249 of 2225 🔗

Someone posted links here earlier today to information about masks causing permanent brain damage in children, but I can’t find it now.

Please could whoever posted it, post it again?

172619 ▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Carrie, #1250 of 2225 🔗

I’d like to see that too

172628 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Carrie, #1251 of 2225 🔗

I sent a chunk of it to John redwood as a comment to today’s diary entry, although it had nothing to do with EU borders, but at least he’ll read it

172745 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Richard O, 1, #1253 of 2225 🔗

Thank you 🙂

172622 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to HelzBelz, #1254 of 2225 🔗

Take the hole punch to it, make some breath holes

172634 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to HelzBelz, 1, #1255 of 2225 🔗

Exemption!!

172588 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 31, #1256 of 2225 🔗

When the (so called) Health Secretary says “If you don’t do as we say, we will let your friends and family die of cancer” and there is not immediate, wholesale rioting in the streets, you know we have lost.

172593 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #1257 of 2225 🔗

I don’t think enough people heard him say it. Was it on BBC or ITV news? I’m guessing not.

172597 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Sam Vimes, 10, #1258 of 2225 🔗

^^^this.

Ultimately too many people are far too apathetic. And it’s not just Covid. It’s things like society voting Blair back in in 2003 after Iraq. It’s rewarding the Tory austerity programme with a majority, it’s electing a prick toff like Johnson or Scotland electing SNP MP’s with no regard for what that really means. When all of these wankers needed a kick in the balls, their supporters rewarded them. That’s why for the next 30 years you will hear of soon to be “Lord Hancock” the same way you hear of Blair and his institutes when the prick should never have a public profile.

As individuals most people are lovely, and care, but as a society we simply don’t collectively challenge enough or think things through, too class driven and deferential.

172599 ▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Leemc23, #1259 of 2225 🔗

To be fair, wasn’t Bliar reelected in 2005 with the lowest share of the vote of any winning party? I think the people wanted him and his odious cronies out, but the FPTP system prevented it.

I don’t know which is worse – Lord Hancock or Lord Bliar!!!

172609 ▶▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to nocheesegromit, #1260 of 2225 🔗

Blair!

172614 ▶▶▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to JHuntz, #1261 of 2225 🔗

Sorry but I can’t resist the Freudian slip…!

172625 ▶▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to JHuntz, #1262 of 2225 🔗

No – right the first time

172623 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to nocheesegromit, 6, #1263 of 2225 🔗

9,552,436 Labour supporters voted in 2005 to put a dishonest war criminal, someone who had waged a war of choice without legitimate authority in flagrant defiance of the UN and resulting in hundreds of thousands (at least) of deaths, into office as PM of this country. That means, roughly (granted there would have been some new or changed voters no doubt) speaking, 90% of the 10,724,953 Labour voters in 2001 were shameless hypocrites or liars, or just warmongers.

A statistic worth bearing in mind.

172714 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, 1, #1264 of 2225 🔗

The fundamental trouble is that the alternative was no better. It was – and is – an ‘Irishman’s choice’.

172792 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 1, #1265 of 2225 🔗

They had more than two years to overthrow him as leader, or to walk out and set up another party. They didn’t because basically not enough of them were bothered enough about having a war criminal as leader to make them think they could successfully do either.

Which would be less annoying if Labour Party supporters weren’t so damned sanctimonious about being morally superior to “nasty” Tories.

172627 ▶▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to nocheesegromit, 1, #1266 of 2225 🔗

Apologies if my dates are incorrect. And yes the fptp system does not help, but one vote was a vote too many.

172667 ▶▶▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Leemc23, #1267 of 2225 🔗

Very true. I was only in Year 3 in 2005, but my dad enlisted me to put ‘Vote Labour’ stickers in his office building (he was a Labour researcher at the time) so I must accept some responsibility for my actions sadly

173011 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to nocheesegromit, #1268 of 2225 🔗

It’s all your fault !!

🙂

172730 ▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to nocheesegromit, 2, #1269 of 2225 🔗

I’d take Blair. He waged war on and murdered people in a different country. Hancock is doing the same but to his own country.

172709 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Leemc23, #1270 of 2225 🔗

Sadly, you are right, Lee. The Iraq protest was impressive – much more so than anything we have seen for Covid. But that only illustrated the docile complicity of the majority when it comes to major issues. Which is what totalitarianism feeds on.

Whilst many will take a pride in moaning about politics and politicians, they won’t get out of bed to actually do anything.

172603 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1271 of 2225 🔗

But was his comment reported in the MSM? Likely few people heard it otherwise..

172617 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Sam Vimes, #1272 of 2225 🔗

Yes it is true…

172621 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Sam Vimes, #1273 of 2225 🔗

Found it on the DM – maybe we can get it around on SM a bit.

172696 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #1274 of 2225 🔗

Perhaps not ‘lost’ : but if people can’t see how absolutely morally perverted and insane is Handoncock – then, clearly, any descent into the abyss is possible.

Then look at Erdogan’s UK twin’s ‘conference’ speech – and you realize how far down the rabbit hole politics has gone.

172589 Basics, replying to Basics, 15, #1275 of 2225 🔗

Crimes against humanity
Dr Reiner Fuelmich
50 minutes
https://youtu.be/kr04gHbP5MQ
Eng 850k Ger 550k views.

The most complete bare facts summary of what has happened across the world as Dr Fuellmich prepares for class action under Tort law. A must watch if you haven’t already.

Also on Bitchute and brandnewtube.

172612 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 2, #1276 of 2225 🔗

Anyone heard if he has got a date for the hearing yet?

172591 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #1277 of 2225 🔗

One more on dangers of wearing a mask -this time patients undergoing dialysis:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15340662/

Conclusion: Wearing an N95 mask for 4 hours during HD significantly reduced PaO2 and increased respiratory adverse effects in ESRD patients.

172729 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1278 of 2225 🔗

I’m pretty sure that if you look into it German occupational law only allows an N95 to be work for something like an hour, then you must have a 30 min break. The numbers may be wrong, but the premise is correct.

172741 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to leggy, 1, #1279 of 2225 🔗

I think it’s 75 mins work followed by a 30 min break – no work, not working without a mask – if I remember right.

172595 calchas, replying to calchas, 10, #1280 of 2225 🔗

Given the internal logic of the authorities’ arguments – ie their belief in the PCR test, which we know to be flawed, then it is difficult to see any way out way out of this. There will simply always be ‘positive cases’.

There are hardly any ‘cases’ in China. Is that because the government there decided to declare victory and go home?

172620 ▶▶ RickH, replying to calchas, 4, #1281 of 2225 🔗

Well – they’ve played a blinder in stitching up the West.

172631 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 6, #1282 of 2225 🔗

I don;t think we can honestly blame the Chinese for this. We did it to ourselves, and if they could (which I don;t believe for a second) predict in advance that we would turn out to be such pathetic panicking bedwetters as to do this to ourselves in fear of a glorified cold, then frankly they are our betters and the sooner they get it over with and take over, the easier for all concerned.

172643 ▶▶▶▶ assoc, replying to Mark, 5, #1283 of 2225 🔗

IF it is man-made then the Chinese must be kicking themselves for not releasing it years ago – they have done immense damage to their rivals without firing a shot

172650 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to assoc, 3, #1284 of 2225 🔗

It would be the equivalent of shouting “boo” and having your rival shoot himself in the leg.

172701 ▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to assoc, #1285 of 2225 🔗

Yup – the Art of War, and Cummings fell hook, line and sinker!

172676 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, 1, #1286 of 2225 🔗

You have a point – but I think they provided the initial exaggerated panic for the WHO to build on.

172679 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to RickH, 1, #1287 of 2225 🔗

P.S. I don’t ‘blame’ them. The damage is self-inflicted.

172687 ▶▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Mark, 5, #1288 of 2225 🔗

Here’s a conspiracy theory. Our surgical masks are made in Wuhan but distributed by an English company. What if the masks are impregnated with the virus or viral RNA??

172786 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to p02099003, 1, #1290 of 2225 🔗

It’s fine as a theory – but is there any evidence for it?

And why would they bother going to such lengths to smuggle in a disease whose chief distinguishing feature is that most people don’t notice they’ve got it?

172861 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to p02099003, #1291 of 2225 🔗

Believable. Somebody with a home test kit could undertake an experiment perhaps.

172697 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to RickH, 2, #1292 of 2225 🔗

Well, we know (because he told us) that Bozo believes that, when in a hole, the best thing to do is keep digging. With a genius like him in charge, how could the Chinese fail?

172708 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to calchas, 4, #1293 of 2225 🔗

The UK Government has totally misunderstood the testing regime in the Far East. It is not mass testing. Tests only start taking place where there is an identifiable local outbreak or when migrating into the country. China has long given up testing the populace at large.

173041 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to calchas, #1294 of 2225 🔗

Probably because they’re not wasting their money on tests.

173065 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Cheezilla, #1295 of 2225 🔗

Either that or they’ve been shipping any infected to quarantine under the radar

172613 PhilipF, replying to PhilipF, 11, #1296 of 2225 🔗

Strongly recommend the Daily Telegraph “Planet Normal” broadcasts with Liam Halligan and Allison Pearson.

In this one they talk to Prof Sunetra Gupta:
https://art19.com/shows/planet-normal/episodes/f69327d5-4fdf-4a26-a264-d19e7bb2c55b

She says this about the self-censorship that is occurring in academic circles regarding Covid:
“There is reluctance to put forward a line of thought that is orthogonal to the orthodoxy”

It is upsetting to hear this, but the phrase “orthogonal to the orthodoxy” is brilliant. Would make a good T-shirt slogan.

172636 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to PhilipF, #1297 of 2225 🔗

Absolutely, but what does it mean

172694 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Major Panic, 3, #1298 of 2225 🔗

In case you want to know – at right-angles to the orthodoxy.

173035 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Major Panic, #1299 of 2225 🔗

Well it should start a potentially useful conversation at least.

172624 matt, replying to matt, 15, #1300 of 2225 🔗

A word on the “focused protection” of the vulnerable in the Great Barrington Declaration (I’ve lost the thread below where this came up). People have raised concerns, understandably. I’d recommend the Unherd interview with the 3, where this specific point is put to them. They basically have 4 points:
1) This is an alternative to “protecting” absolutely everybody, which is what we’re doing at the moment, by destroying our entire society
2) It is, in effect a subset of what we’re doing at the moment (in reality, when they talk about how it could be done, it’s much, much better than what’s in place in care homes at the moment)
3) Because, in the meantime, the rest of the population would be building up immunity, they only expect that it would be necessary for at most 3 months, at which point everything would be back to normal for everyone
4) It would, in be voluntary in any case.

It’s not perfect, but a darn sight better than where we are at the moment, which is staring down the barrel of arbitrary restrictions for at least another 6 months.

172633 ▶▶ calchas, replying to matt, 6, #1301 of 2225 🔗

Six months?

The authorities are apparently relying on the number of ‘cases’ in order to determine the level of restrictions.

If the PCR is as flawed as we suspect it is, then there will always be plenty of ‘cases’

The implication is that ‘masks and social distancing will become permanent.

I see no exit from these measures, given the premises.

172646 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to calchas, 3, #1302 of 2225 🔗

Good point. The fiction of PCR ‘positives’ is a gift that will keep on giving – as unverified fantasy always will.

173026 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RickH, 1, #1303 of 2225 🔗

It’s a gift to serco that will keep on costing us too.

172637 ▶▶ RickH, replying to matt, 12, #1304 of 2225 🔗

I’d largely agree with that.

But the flaw is in not putting sufficient emphasis on the crucial issue of the change to choosing one’s own risk.

For me, this is a critical political issue. (And I’m on the traditionally described ‘left’)

We are not talking about Ebola or The Plague in terms of the ‘common good’.

172644 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 5, #1305 of 2225 🔗

And as I wrote yesterday, I’d say you are looking the gift horse in the mouth.

You won’t get anything better than this with a chance of mainstream endorsement and consideration, I don’t think. It doesn’t even mention masks, for goodness’ sake. Not even to say they should be “voluntary but encouraged” or some such bull.

172645 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to RickH, 5, #1306 of 2225 🔗

I do agree with you. However, they’re aught in the need to come across as offering a reasonable option, which can be taken up by people who have bought the narrative and won’t accept anything that comes across as “letting the virus rip”. It’s a pragmatic compromise in language and they do say that people who are vulnerable can choose.

173033 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RickH, #1307 of 2225 🔗

I agree. My first response was to reject it because it used the word should in a way that didn’t make the measures sound voluntary.
The fact that they should be voluntary is tucked on the end like an afterthought and will be easily ignored by those with an opposing agenda.
Sloppy!

172626 Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #1308 of 2225 🔗

Exams cancelled in Scotland.
By swinney wearing a purple tie.

172654 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 2, #1309 of 2225 🔗

Hmm, the colour purple again….. 🤔 🤔

172635 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 4, #1310 of 2225 🔗

Are they antisocial distancing, or don’t you have to if you’re wearing a muzzle?

172652 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Tenchy, 9, #1311 of 2225 🔗

I’m always amazed at how utterly fucking stupid pictures like this are, people walking about dressed like twats.

The masks and all the other shit does not matter, it’s pointless, torturing us has been the goal from the beginning, making us beg for the cat piss vaccine.

172663 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to stefarm, 6, #1312 of 2225 🔗

Every fucking day she has been standing on her podium giving it the biggun, why hasn’t this cunt caught it

172879 ▶▶ Adam, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1313 of 2225 🔗

At least with a mask on, we don’t have to look at her fucking face. So they do have some uses!

173022 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, #1314 of 2225 🔗

I bet they only pulled them up just bfore the lift doors opened.

172638 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 10, #1315 of 2225 🔗

Just listened to BBC R4, the fear dial is turned up to 12, cases cases cases, 79 hospital admissions today in the UK, no mention of false positives, no mention of the seriousness of the hospital admissions. The virus is out of control! We need more lockdowns, harsh ones NOW, it’s because people are wearing mask and disobeying social distancing.

We are anti-the globalisation process apparently like the far-right New Dawn party in Greece that just got busted.

Oh yes and from the Scottish health minister, “there can be no public discussion of Coronavirus policy UNTIL it is clear there will be no vaccine, THEN we can have a more open discussion”
FFS!

172736 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1316 of 2225 🔗

Well, that’s the public told then.

172829 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Two-Six, #1317 of 2225 🔗

?? At what point are we allowed to declare that there will be no vaccine? 1 year? 5 years? 20?

172909 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to A. Contrarian, #1318 of 2225 🔗

This time next year? Who knows.

172640 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 7, #1319 of 2225 🔗

GB declaration approaching 80,000 signatures

172642 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #1320 of 2225 🔗

BBC just trashed that declaration, without mentioning it either, just the go back to normal bit, in the first 2 minutes of their coverage, no its not a sensible solution said Scottish Health Minister, far too many vulnerable people will be harmed “IF WE LET RIP!”

172660 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Two-Six, 10, #1321 of 2225 🔗

I think we’ve already established that change is going to have to come from the bottom up.

172680 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #1322 of 2225 🔗

Senior doctors encouraged by others to speak out, especially if stood on a platform together (and in scrubs) would have a significant impact.

172692 ▶▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #1323 of 2225 🔗

Masked up so unrecognisable

172690 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Two-Six, 4, #1324 of 2225 🔗

Oh I think its time to let rip alright but not how they’re meaning it.

172672 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tom Blackburn, 8, #1325 of 2225 🔗

Over 85k now. It’s getting more publicity. If anyone interacts with Mr Trump on Twitter, perhaps drawing his attention to it would help?

172713 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1326 of 2225 🔗

3 hours ago a comment below refs a bbc GBD article -6000 sigs

172641 Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #1327 of 2225 🔗

.

172664 ▶▶ Pebbles, replying to Basics, #1328 of 2225 🔗

Do you have any links?

172707 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Arkansas, #1330 of 2225 🔗

Wow it’s like I am not needed. I’ll dash out somemore full stop comments soon.

And yes it was a misplaced smart city comment that caused the .
Spooky.

172647 chaos, replying to chaos, 12, #1331 of 2225 🔗

Do you remember when the tories only tortured and harmed the poor, sick and disabled? Ah the old days.

172671 ▶▶ Andy C, replying to chaos, 1, #1332 of 2225 🔗

The pre-Munchausen days? I almost yearn for them.

172648 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 23, #1333 of 2225 🔗

Is there hope at last?
BBC news actually giving air time to ordinary people who are sceptical and even one bloke saying “stop it now and let people go back to normal and get on with their lives”
Is the worm actually starting to turn?

172670 ▶▶ Andy C, replying to Fingerache Philip., 6, #1334 of 2225 🔗

I live in hope, but reality always seems to bite back.

172686 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Andy C, 2, #1335 of 2225 🔗

I think reality ” left the building” months ago.

172719 ▶▶▶▶ Andy C, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #1336 of 2225 🔗

Using the designated one-way system, too.

172737 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Andy C, 2, #1337 of 2225 🔗

Of course and wearing a mask and using hand sanitizer.

172732 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1338 of 2225 🔗

Yep this is a Narrative v Reality.

172723 ▶▶ annie, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #1339 of 2225 🔗

No worm wormier than the BBC, for sure.

172726 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1340 of 2225 🔗

BBC World at one today redeemed themselves with a GBD feature after having listened to a selective quote from Neil Ferguson on Radio London news today repeating the lie “don’t let the NHS be overwhelmed again”

172651 nocheesegromit, replying to nocheesegromit, 22, #1341 of 2225 🔗

Finished the poster I will be displaying on my university campus. Any feedback is appreciated – I’ve tried to put a focus on human rights (hence the bullet point about disabled people) and linked to the Liberty petition as well as the GB Declaration to appeal to students. I will also be posting it on the forums (thanks Mabel Cow for this suggestion).

In other news the UsforThem group has contacted me to say they will be doing a separate campaign for uni students which is excellent news.

172716 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to nocheesegromit, 1, #1342 of 2225 🔗

Nice job. Please keep us posted with how it works out. I’m particularly interested in the extent to which facts are successful in swaying opinion on campus.

172761 ▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Mabel Cow, #1343 of 2225 🔗

Hi Mabel I’m having trouble with my password so for some reason i can only message on here and not on the forum .Anyway i want to say thank you so much for the poster and i hope you don’t mind we changed the wording a bit .It now reads HE FOUGHT FOR LIBERTY . DON’T THROW IT AWAY! . well done You have done a great and inspiring job , the poster have been printed and look s great . Please if any one else has any ideas put in the forum for all to share .

172982 ▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Mabel Cow, #1344 of 2225 🔗

Will do. I’m looking to print out those little strips of paper you can rip off and keep (no idea what they’re called) to gauge support.

172896 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to nocheesegromit, 1, #1345 of 2225 🔗

TLDR

Make it snappy. Include only the starkest imagery and the most powerful rhetoric. Facts are secondary to impact, Be brutal with your editing.

If you’re really proud of your whole text, put it on a webpage, and put a QR code link to it on the poster/sticker.

173045 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to AidanR, 1, #1346 of 2225 🔗

Agree with this 100%. QR code to link to more.

The attention span of your averga punter is very low these days

173129 ▶▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #1347 of 2225 🔗

Thanks both – do you have any suggestions for what I could use in terms of rhetoric? Are any of the facts I’ve featured impactful enough, do you reckon?

I think the QR code is a nice idea but by presenting the facts I’m hoping my reach will be bigger. I feel I may be preaching to the already converted via a QR code.

172905 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to nocheesegromit, 2, #1348 of 2225 🔗

Can you also use some of Mabel Cow’s posters?
That war-time soldier one might possibly be noticed by the more militant type of student …
And being locked in, the word ‘liberty’ on it might strike a chord with your fellow students..

173133 ▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Carrie, #1349 of 2225 🔗

Not sure about soldiers – the majority of student sentiment is very much anti-imperialist/anti-war (or at least any dissenters keep very quiet). Response to ‘our forefathers wouldn’t have stood for this’ would be met with ‘Ok BoOmEr’ or ‘yes because they were fighting for the evil warmongerer Churchill’ etc.

172954 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to nocheesegromit, 1, #1350 of 2225 🔗

Well done! I also remember a good breakdown of American student cases v deaths of all the states. Think that would be worth putting up also.

172999 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to nocheesegromit, 1, #1351 of 2225 🔗

Nice one, NCG.

173136 ▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to JohnB, #1352 of 2225 🔗

Thank you!

173017 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to nocheesegromit, 1, #1353 of 2225 🔗

It’s brilliant but there a typo at the end. Surely you mean repeal the act, not repeat it?

173122 ▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Cheezilla, #1354 of 2225 🔗

Good spot, thank you!

172655 Pebbles, replying to Pebbles, 8, #1355 of 2225 🔗

Today’s blog on Job Rappoport’ website is a MUST read… stick with it until the end to get the full picture.

Then remember that if anyone had predicted that in March 2020 the world would collectively shut down its economies and lock down its population under draconian rules, committing genocide on the population in care homes, we would have laughed that person out of the pub right….? Who is laughing now???

https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2020/10/07/what-could-they-put-in-the-covid-vaccine/

172784 ▶▶ Christopher, replying to Pebbles, 1, #1356 of 2225 🔗

Been reading Jon Rappaport for a while now , He called this for the bullshit hoax it is from the very start , especially the situation in northern Italy in Feb / early March regarding the ventilators and how they were actually killing patients .
His info helped me reassure my Mrs that there is nothing to worry about , She is a type one diabetic and immune compromised so was quite troubled by this in early March.
She is now a total sceptic and want done with this madness.
Jon Rappaport has been excellent throughout the hoax , although his claiming they were going to bump off Trump with experimental drugs last week was a bit much.

172657 Basics, replying to Basics, 4, #1357 of 2225 🔗

Skynews properly covering GBD.real time spent on it. Not one on to talk in favour of course.

172702 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, #1358 of 2225 🔗

Skynews now have interviewees on about GBD.

Twice in the hour they are covering it.

172725 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #1359 of 2225 🔗

Sky news Livepool mayor? Councillor? Joe Anderson- Aparthied is not the way forward re GBD.

He will rue that comment when he oversees the segregation coming with his beloved fantasy vaccine currently being cynically tested of poor black south africans.

172768 ▶▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Basics, 5, #1360 of 2225 🔗

Such a moronic argument – “We can’t lock up the elderly”. So instead we basically lock up everyone indefinitely. If we protected the vulnerable and let everyone else go about their business we could probably reach herd immunity in a month or two. We do the vulnerable no favours by letting this virus hang around thus increasing their chances of catching it. In any event, the GBD made it clear that no one would be forced to shelter if they did not wish to do so, just that they would be given the necessary support if that is what they wanted.

172889 ▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Chicot, 3, #1361 of 2225 🔗

“We can’t lock up the elderly” is literally true though.

Every ‘elderly’ I’ve talked to will not be told by some jumped up snotgoblin what they can or can’t do. They’ve got a far better sense of proportion and order of priorities than the vast majority of people younger than them, in my experience.

It’s deeply unfortunate for Graham Brady that he’s my mother’s MP.

173038 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Chicot, 2, #1362 of 2225 🔗

Can’t we?
At various times during the bollox, some group of Fascist tossers advised locking up all those aged over 50 or, in one case, 45.

172712 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Basics, 8, #1363 of 2225 🔗

BBC covered it as well on World at One. Interviewed Sunetra Gupta. She’s getting better in her media appearances.

172733 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to crimsonpirate, 2, #1364 of 2225 🔗

The paper reviews at 11.30 will condemn it -their talking heads are in place precisely to snuff out and shape public opinions. Carol Maloney may talk a little sense if she is on. Otherwise they will savage it as best they can. Just wait.

They really are worried by it. Sky presenter making biased comment to end the segment – that stuff comes through the ear piece from the sinister spooks in the gallery.

172788 ▶▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Basics, #1365 of 2225 🔗

I haven’t seen sky for a while. Do they still have that screen graphic with the moving virus particles?

172661 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 5, #1366 of 2225 🔗

So why dont the ‘experts’ realise that ‘cases’ relate to increased testing, but not to increased, among the general population, illness.

172740 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #1367 of 2225 🔗

A question re tests the UK: do you only get a + or – result for PCR and antibody tests?

I’m curious because in Sweden there is also a 3rd possibility, an unclear result, where they cannot give a definite answer because it is a borderline result. There seem to be quite a lot of these, looking at the weekly test results published – in some regions they are in the hundreds…

173008 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #1368 of 2225 🔗

I’m sure they’re very well aware of it!

172673 Pebbles, replying to Pebbles, 5, #1369 of 2225 🔗

I’d further recommend watching this video with Kary Mullins and read the Off Guardian article – inventor of the PCR Test. How he came to realize it is not a diagnostic tool at all… Eye opening contributions by people diagnosed with HIV through PCR and what that actually means… if he only he were alive today to speak his brilliant mind in person:
https://off-guardian.org/2020/10/05/pcr-inventor-it-doesnt-tell-you-that-you-are-sick/

172677 ▶▶ Pebbles, replying to Pebbles, #1370 of 2225 🔗

*Mullis sorry

172715 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Pebbles, 1, #1371 of 2225 🔗

Dr John Lee on Talk Radio *now* talking about tests!!

172675 calchas, replying to calchas, 9, #1372 of 2225 🔗

How can any government possibly admit that its measures over the last few months have been misguided?

The systematic intervention in normal human social life has been so profound and has had such negative consquences, and has been so thoroughly implemented by all societal institutions, that to admit a mistake would be put the legitimacy of all institutions in question.

There is no way back.

172683 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to calchas, 5, #1373 of 2225 🔗

The only way back is the Pakistan route, to say that you would like to have continued but the people insisted that you had to stop. Infections collapsed almost immediately afterwards

172691 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Yawnyaman, 4, #1374 of 2225 🔗

So, masking stops and social distancing stops.

…and then nothing bad happens.

Implying catstrophic mistakes.

172776 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to calchas, 3, #1375 of 2225 🔗

This is my analysis too. But we must be a witness to truth, fight the lie if only in our own lives. For this reason I believe that not wearing the damned mask is an important act of witness, from those who are able to make it. I don’t know much more that we can do, isolated. Sign things I suppose. But mainly just tell the truth when we can, and refrain from lying even when it would seem expedient to toe the line.

172925 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to calchas, 3, #1376 of 2225 🔗

If you have any hope left, continue to get the message out. There will be times when chinks appear and those you told will think back to your message. They’ll remember you had warned of this chink, and many more to come. That’s how it unravels for most. Only 10% of the ‘story’ needs to be made real and the rest is considered a possibility.

I believe there is much that can be won in this but we will have to pick a side.

172682 chaos, replying to chaos, 29, #1377 of 2225 🔗

Today I went for a walk. I went to the supermarket for the first time in weeks. You’re going the wrong way barked a fat lady. Where’s your mask? I gave the nazi salute and said exempt. Morrisons. One way system. Exhausting.

Later on my walk, I happened upon a pigeon. It had been attacked by something. Still alive.. I saw the fine bones in its wings. And another large wound in its body. The leaves around it were splattered with its blood. I stroked it for a while. Comforted it. I wanted someone to tell me what to do. I didn’t have my phone on me but I know the RSPCA just take a hammer or boot to such carnage anyway. An old lady with a mask came up the road. An old lady I thought. She’ll know what to do. Old, wise. Are you moving she said. No, there’s a hurt bird said I. She turned and walked the other way. I guess she wanted to avoid the possibility of catching the worst illness that has ever existed: Covid. Two young girls walked past, walking home from school. They laughed at the bird. I took the bird into the woodland nearby. I stroked him. And realizing there was no recovery from his injuries, I suffocated him. Took two minutes or so. I could see his bones and tendons. There was no recovery possible. I carried on walking.. shaken.. a white van tore up the hill and struck a young red kite that had landed in the road. A busy road. Cars went one way and the other. The red kite in the middle where the central markings are. Blood and guts. It was still moving. INo one stopped. When there was a break in traffic I scopped the large bird up and went to the side of the road. Some of the blood and bits were left in the middle of the road. I could see small bones and big bones. And massive damage. And for the second time ever in my life I helped a creature on its way. I want someone to do that to me. I don’t want to live in Bill Gates’ and Boris Johnsons’ and Carrie Symonds’ and the WEF’s new naive and insane and greedy abnormal. I want to be hit by a moron in a van and I want a hand over my nose and mouth to send me on my way.

172698 ▶▶ Pebbles, replying to chaos, 15, #1378 of 2225 🔗

People have become Zombies. Everyone is struggling. Hence more important than ever for the compassionate to stick around! So stay with us. Sign the petitions. Write to your MP. Question the vaccine. Come to LS website. Know there are many feeling like you. No one can give up now.. that’s what they want. I won’t hand it to them.

172700 ▶▶ annie, replying to chaos, 8, #1379 of 2225 🔗

Din’t you sometimes just hate people?

172750 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to annie, 3, #1380 of 2225 🔗

Most of the time.

172703 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to chaos, 7, #1381 of 2225 🔗

Very moving. Acts of mercy and compassion well above and beyond social expectations, especially given our current descent into hell.

Sadly I agree with your death wish as well. I will gladly take a bullet in the head, but I suspect that the process will much more chaotic, drawn out and agonising than that.

172720 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to chaos, 8, #1382 of 2225 🔗

That’s a very traumatic day for you. Poor you. My sympathies. It makes for harrowing reading. I killed a pidgeon once after it had been horribly mauled. Shot it with an air rifle, I had to shoot it 4 times in the head before it died. It was very very traumatic for me. I know I couldn’t do it again easily.

Try to stay sane in the mental world, you aren’t the only one that feels like you are going crazy. Keep fighting.

Very compassionate of you to help those birds. The reason you feel so upset is BECAUSE you have compassion and empathy. Don’t forget that.

172722 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to chaos, 4, #1383 of 2225 🔗

Please don’t despair.

172731 ▶▶ Gtec, replying to chaos, 7, #1384 of 2225 🔗

The pigeon had probably been attacked by the red kite; they like the heads apparently. Glad you did what you knew you had to do for those birds. Don’t let the circumstances get you down, you did the right thing.

172738 ▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to chaos, 5, #1385 of 2225 🔗

When the history of the Great Covid Scamdemic comes to be written this post should be included.

172774 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to chaos, 6, #1386 of 2225 🔗

Feel for you especially if you’ve never had to do it before.

This is when the saying “sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind” kicks in.

This sounds cruel but with nothing else available is the most humane way to deal with a pigeon or other bird is to wring it’s neck with one sudden, quick pull and turn of the neck just below the head.

Instant, painless, no suffering, no panic or stress to the bird.

Pity we can’t do it humans but those you mentioned and those who walked away from you today deserve a slow lingering death for their inhumanity.

172789 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to chaos, 6, #1387 of 2225 🔗

Twice today you did the best you could to prevent creatures from experiencing pointless suffering. You were brave and compassionate.
It sounds like a terrible day for you. Intensely painful and traumatic.
Wherever you are, there are people like us near you, even though you may not be able to identify them. Next time you are in a cafe, look for the woman in the corner having a second coffee with her cake and reading the LRB: it’s me.
I hope you can get some sleep tonight and that you will feel less wounded in the morning.

172818 ▶▶ Melangell, replying to chaos, 3, #1388 of 2225 🔗

I found your post very moving, Chaos. Can only imagine how you felt….I found a dead blackbird in my driveway this morning. A beautiful red necklace of its guts spilling out from where it had been run over by a delivery van. One less pure voice in the valley now…

172823 ▶▶ chaos, replying to chaos, 2, #1389 of 2225 🔗

It’s really freaked me out.

172917 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to chaos, 1, #1390 of 2225 🔗

Wonderful

172987 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to chaos, 1, #1391 of 2225 🔗

We’ll be fine as long as we maintain our humanity. Thank you for this beautiful example of yours.

172990 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to chaos, 1, #1392 of 2225 🔗

Very sad, Chaos. Maybe you live in a town, but humanely dispatching creatures, when necessary, always makes right-thinking people a bit down.
You did the right thing !

However, suffocating ? Air rifle ? A hammer is quicker. But wringing their necks is best for birds. Rabbits, a chop on the back of the neck. I’ve never had to dispatch a fox or a badger. Back to the hammer, or an axe if available, I guess.

173002 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JohnB, #1393 of 2225 🔗

I had to kill a blackbird hatchling earlier this year. It had fallen out of the nest and no way would it survive. I bashed its head with a stone. I’ve never killed anything bigger than an insect before – and I try to avoid doing that. It was quite disturbing but nature is very cruel and I was just speeding things up.

I often ask: What’s the life purpose of a mouse?
Answer: To be food for something else.

173277 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cheezilla, #1394 of 2225 🔗

I reckon the mouse would say, “To make more mice !”.

172693 Will, replying to Will, 12, #1395 of 2225 🔗

Could Labour be about to come out as anti lockdown? Burnham can clearly see it is a nonsense to close down a city because a rake of healthy students have tested positive for a virus but they don’t have any symptoms. It would completely outmanoeuvre Johnson and overnight the BBC and the Guardian would become lockdown sceptics to support their political party. Starmer seemed a lot more sceptical today. Maybe it could be a gambit to force the Tory sceptics into the open and expose the fissures at the heart of the government…

172705 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Will, 5, #1396 of 2225 🔗

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54451367 . You’re right. Starmer has specifically asked for the evidence for the 10PM curfew.

172764 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Will, #1397 of 2225 🔗

I hope !!

172815 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Will, 1, #1398 of 2225 🔗

Just the other day, wasn’t Starmer saying he’d support the government no matter what they did (including, presumably, execution at dawn by firing squad of anyone with a positive test)?

I guess like any politician, he will do whatever he thinks might gain him some popularity.

172816 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1399 of 2225 🔗

Also, this would fry my brother’s brain – he loves Starmer but approves of lockdown – he’d have a difficult decision to make!

172974 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1400 of 2225 🔗

Lulled dePIffle into a false sense of security, while waiting for his moment to strike?

173126 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Cheezilla, #1401 of 2225 🔗

I’d love to think so… we’ll see.

172972 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Will, #1402 of 2225 🔗

Hopefully Starmer has been waiting for dePIffle to be in a weak position before he withdrew his “support” and started asking tricky questions.

Burnham is only interested in himself and in getting more handouts and will happily throw his constituents to the wolves.

172993 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Will, 1, #1403 of 2225 🔗

Even if Labour went sceptic it still wouldn’t excuse their previous full support, save for the T&T obsession, for the past six months. But I welcome it if it gets rid of the Clown Show quicker.

172699 crimsonpirate, 6, #1404 of 2225 🔗

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxK56magHxE
Remembrance Sunday 1919 – no social distancing, no masks.

172706 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 18, #1405 of 2225 🔗

Did many people see one of the last veterans of D Day ( I think his name is Harry Billinge) being shown the train that bears his name on television?
What spoke volumes was that while all those around him including his helpers/carers were wearing masks,Harry was not wearing one.
I leave my fellow sceptics to come to their obvious (I think) conclusions.

172891 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1406 of 2225 🔗

no mask? he’ll be dead by the weekend

172900 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to mjr, 4, #1407 of 2225 🔗

Talking of veterans, is Captain Tom still doing laps of his garden, and does he regret giving all that money to the NHS, given that it will *only* treat him if he gets Covid…? (and maybe not even then, due to age discrimination..)

173032 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Carrie, 1, #1408 of 2225 🔗

Captain Tom was a well- meaning idiot, an ideal focus for the adulation of morons.

172967 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mjr, 1, #1409 of 2225 🔗

Have you forgotten that he’ll be protected by all the other masks?

172718 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 10, #1410 of 2225 🔗

The UK gave 71m to China in Aid. Its not just Covid where the government has completely and utterly lost the plot.

172727 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #1411 of 2225 🔗

Whaaaat?????

172895 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Alice, #1413 of 2225 🔗

Horrendous..

172766 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Carrie, 2, #1414 of 2225 🔗

International Aid has always been inherently a moral outrage (coerced “charity” is not charity but theft).

Its only credible defence has been that it’s basically money used to bribe other countries to do things that are supposedly in our national interest. Presumably that’s what this is about. Personally I’d rather do away with it completely. If people want to give money to the needy whether here or in other countries they should do so voluntarily.

172964 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Dan Clarke, #1415 of 2225 🔗

Aid money is never for aid. It always comes with strings attached.

172724 Fingerache Philip., 6, #1416 of 2225 🔗

Turkeys being put on diets and socially distancing Santas.
Please somebody help me.

172734 John P, replying to John P, 6, #1417 of 2225 🔗

It’s okay folks! Now that our Consocialist Party leader, Boris Fartpants is bringing us windpower we are all saved from the that nasty horny virus. You can even unlock your grandmothers!

And now that our dear leader is likening us to Saudi Arabia, will our security services – newly freed from all those terribly inconvenient laws that the rest of us have to abide by – be saving us from all those nasty journalists that don’t like him!

Jamal Khashoggi style!

And will we see Queen Elizabeth beheaded in Trafalgar Square as the great prophet Peter Hitchens has foretold…?

172742 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to John P, 2, #1418 of 2225 🔗

Interestingly the Queen has not been seen for ages – only ‘Prince Charles’, who looks somewhat different these days…

172748 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Carrie, #1419 of 2225 🔗

Yes I have seen some analysis of his recent appearances which are strange to say the least.

172770 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Richard O, #1420 of 2225 🔗

Is it him? Saw this Twitter feed last night showing the quality of prosthetics that can be made now : https://twitter.com/ProRenFX/status/968863872550670338

172841 ▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Carrie, #1421 of 2225 🔗

The Queen has a god driven obligation to at least attempt to influence Government. That she has simply disappeared is not to her credit. I don’t think they will do an episode of the Crown where she says “Philip, one is pissing off out of this”

172959 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Leemc23, #1422 of 2225 🔗

Didn’t she make a fatuous speech fairly recently?

173029 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Carrie, #1423 of 2225 🔗

You’re not going down the ‘Charles has been replaced by a double’ route are you Carrie?

172758 ▶▶ Mark, replying to John P, 1, #1424 of 2225 🔗

Consocialist Party

Nice coinage. Sums it up nicely.

172958 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to John P, #1425 of 2225 🔗

Face nappies replaced by burqas – for everyone?

172735 jim j, replying to jim j, 8, #1426 of 2225 🔗

Sky News – Joe Anderson Mayor of Liverpool , and Dr Gabriela Gomes, signatory of Barrington –
He didn’t understand a single word she was saying. An insight into what must happen when scientists brief politicians.
Worse still, the political answer, to everything, is to kick the problem down the road. If offered choice of one death tomorrow, or likely 3 in 6 months time these weak parasites will always choose the latter.
Self interested, too stupid, weak people.

172767 ▶▶ Basics, replying to jim j, 2, #1427 of 2225 🔗

He spoke of aparthied – he isnt even aware his beloved hope of a AZ oxford vaccine is being tested on the poorest people in South Africa, I believe those men and women coukd talk to Mr Joe about aparthied.

Don’t forget Joe Anderson of Liverpool when they put in the vaccine no vaccine segregated society.

172813 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to jim j, 2, #1428 of 2225 🔗

It’s like that famous test they give kids. You can have one sweet now, or two sweets in five minutes. The kids always go for the option of instant gratification.

172840 ▶▶▶ Arkansas, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #1429 of 2225 🔗

That is perhaps because, correctly, the kids don’t trust the strange adults who placed them in a strange and contrived situation, a situation which is obviously a disingenuous setup of some sort.

The analogy should be reversed, then:

We are the “kids” who are suffering under a contrived situation, brought about and perpetuated by strange and disingenuous “adults”.

Why are we waiting for our “two sweets in five minutes time”, a hope we surely now have little reason to expect will be fulfilled by the strangers, when we should be grabbing our “one sweet now”?

172848 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to jim j, 1, #1430 of 2225 🔗

My husband said exactly the same as we watched the Sky interview. She was very good. He is as thick as mince.

172935 ▶▶▶ jim j, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1431 of 2225 🔗

As thick as a crane drivers sandwich.
(That’s an Australian one, I don’t know any crane drivers!)

172739 chris, #1432 of 2225 🔗

I’ve already stocked up, hic, on wine kits

172747 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1433 of 2225 🔗

Latest “buzz expression”: Covid compliance”
Could be a group (didn’t call them bands then) from the Sixties.

172749 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #1434 of 2225 🔗

Covid and the Compliers would also work.

172753 Mark, replying to Mark, 12, #1435 of 2225 🔗

The idiots who represent us:

Neil O’Brien, “Conservative” Party MP for Harborough

I read the Great Barrington declaration and it calls for us to go for a “herd immunity” strategy and to just let people get the virus, to let it rip effectively, and try and screen older people from it. That doesn’t work of course, because older people interact with everybody else and you can’t have a world in which they are just hermetically sealed off from a society where it’s being allowed to let rip. I think that people who are advocates of herd immunity strategy, fine to argue for that but you’ve got to be clear and honest with people about the hundreds of thousands of deaths that that would entail to get there.

Speaking today on the World at One on Radio 4 (around 25m) .

So this genius thinks that it’s impossible to protect old people reasonably well, but we can somehow magically protect everyone from getting the virus and “suppress” it, and damn the costs of doing so. And of course he thinks that the result of following the same kinds of measures as in Sweden, less a bit of working from home perhaps, would be “hundreds of thousands of deaths”, in spite of the fact that nowhere in the world has that happened, even in countries where the leaders basically refused to believe in covid as a threat.

Mind you, the same buffoon had just finished claiming that cases in Leicester only went down because of its lockdown – presumably he believes the fact that a similar decline in cases has happened literally everywhere in the northern latitudes, whether locked down or not, is pure coincidence.

What kind of bullheaded refusal to confront reality does it require, to believe the things O’Brien evidently believes? Small wonder we are in such a mess, with lawmakers of this calibre!

172763 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Mark, 8, #1436 of 2225 🔗

Looked him up on Wiki. Another one with a degree in PPE, and who has never had a ‘proper’ job!

172772 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #1437 of 2225 🔗

Sorry, what is PPE?

172781 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to stefarm, 7, #1438 of 2225 🔗

Politics, Philosophy and Economics, fills roughly the same role (pseudo-education for relative thickos) for toffs at Oxford as Sociology does for ordinary folk, but with better social connections.

172794 ▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Mark, 2, #1439 of 2225 🔗

AHH, fuck all then

173058 ▶▶▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Mark, 1, #1440 of 2225 🔗

Degree for rich thickies.

172775 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #1441 of 2225 🔗

An embarrassment to the people of Harborough. But they can take comfort from the fact that they are far from alone in having a disastrous numpty representing them…

172773 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Mark, 7, #1442 of 2225 🔗

“let it rip” is clearly in the script they’re all reading from. Monsters.

172814 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to mattghg, 2, #1443 of 2225 🔗

Yes, it certainly is. Mark Harper, former Tory chief whip, warned Helen Whately yesterday about this language in the ‘Rule of 6’ debate in HoC. It will come back to haunt them when it will be, rightly in my view, attached to the government’s strategy on cancer. Pretty sure Starmer will not let that one go.

172876 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to mattghg, 1, #1444 of 2225 🔗

Will be interesting to see if any of the government lawyers use the phrase ‘let it rip’ as a defence in court, at Simon Dolan’s injunction hearing next week…

172919 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #1445 of 2225 🔗

I’m sure Simon has a list of the slogans and catchphrases.

172796 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Mark, 7, #1446 of 2225 🔗

Yes, I heard that at lunchtime. When will I learn that shouting and swearing at the radio, especially when the children are around, is useless?

When I hear MPs like him I really do despair for the future of Parliament. Seriously, how can it go on?

But replace it with what? Any way you look at it, we need a Parliament. But something’s got to change.

173198 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to TJN, 1, #1447 of 2225 🔗

New parties needed. The real trouble is, we also need an entire new social and cultural elite We seem to have broken ours.

173430 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Mark, #1448 of 2225 🔗

Maybe a new MP candidate selection procedure, with responsibility handed to the local associations, would achieve something.

172807 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Mark, 7, #1449 of 2225 🔗

It’s like the circular non-argument that it would be inhumane to “segregate” society by temporarily isolating the vulnerable, so therefore we all need to be isolated, whether vulnerable or not, for an indefinite amount of time. Much more fair if we’re all suffering together forever…

173019 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1450 of 2225 🔗

It’s a classic double bind. It ofte. indicates the presence of a mental illness. The next logical step would be to actually let them decide their own risk but support them to be protected of that is their wish.

172885 ▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, 3, #1451 of 2225 🔗

I was about to start by saying “it’s exceptionally stupid” and then I topped myself, because I realised that, no, this is now just run-of-the-mill, everyday stupidity among our ruling ‘elite’.

I think there are two basic problems here (3, if you include spineless idiots, toeing the party line):

Firstly, too many people are still stuck on the idea that we don’t know who is and who is not vulnerable. This was somewhat true in March, but is almost laughable now. My semi-informed guess would be that around 3 quarters of the shielding list probably didn’t need to be. We know the age brackets, we know the complications and the co-morbitities and we’re in a position to be much more precise about who should and who should not be offered protection.

Secondly, he’s still clearly marooned on the Ferguson predictions and isn’t listening to what anyone else might be saying. Hundreds of thousands of deaths is necessarily not a result of the strategy the declaration is proposing (and nor, by the way is endless age-based apartheid). He’s read the document, but he’s read it slantwise and hasn’t bothered to look at it properly.

All 3 of the scientists are getting better media exposure and more of an opportunity to present their case. Momentum is being gained. Minds will start to change.

172984 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to matt, 3, #1452 of 2225 🔗

Para one – should read “stopped myself”. Hopefully it’s clear to all that I didn’t end it all just before writing that post.

173202 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, #1453 of 2225 🔗

Actually the sentence as written kind of made sense, as topping oneself is not an entirely unreasonable response to the situation you (accurately) described….

172755 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #1454 of 2225 🔗

I daresay if Scotland had followed the Swedish approach earlier in the year then we’d be in a better place right now.

I don’t agree with people who say the UK couldn’t have done it and then contradict themselves by proposing regional/local measures to try and deal with the problem.

172837 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #1455 of 2225 🔗

Comparing Sweden to Scotland actually makes a lot of sense in terms of size and population. And that’s where Mr Sturgeon should be directed when making comparisons. Anyway. Did he not say they were “Covid free” when they introduced face nappies ?

172860 ▶▶▶ Mark H, replying to Leemc23, 1, #1456 of 2225 🔗

I ran a spreadsheet for weeks comparing Scotland to Sweden. Very comparable countries. Even though Sweden has twice the population, it was always doing better in terms of case fatalities and deaths per 100,000.

172756 Basics, replying to Basics, 8, #1457 of 2225 🔗

Local rag reports:

Utterly devastating’ – Edinburgh hospitality industry responds to ‘death sentence’ pub shut down
Nicola Sturgeon said that cafes, restaurants, bars and pubs will have to close down from 16 days on Friday at 7pm, in a move which has been described as a ‘death sentence’ by the industry

Mr Stewart [Sneaky Petes] told Edinburgh Live: “The unfair and ill thought out music ban still needs to be addressed and the next layer of restrictions that came in with the 10pm curfew were a real blow.

“Now, total closure clearly means total loss of income from venues that are just trying to do whatever they can to stay afloat.

“Today’s shut-down of Scottish pubs is a devastating blow”
Nick MacKenzie, CEO of Greene King, which has 240 pubs in Scotland and 2500 employees – including Edinburgh’s The World’s End pub on the Royal Mile, and the Oxford Bar in New Town, announced today that he would be cutting hundreds of jobs and shutting down pubs in response to the tighter restrictions.

He said: “Today’s shut-down of Scottish pubs is a devastating blow for the thousands of people who work in the industry.

“We understand that decisive action needs to be taken to reduce the spread of COVID-19.

“We have invested millions of pounds in ensuring that our pubs are safe and only had six Test and Protect requests from NHS Scotland in total across our 125 managed pubs since we reopened on 15 July, having served millions of customers.

“Throwing a dingy boat with a puncture.”
The business owner told Edinburgh live that the restrictions were “utterly devastating” to the industry and said that funding at this point is like “throwing a dingy boat with a puncture.”

She said: “The spotlight has been on us as an industry since we were able to open in July.

“We have had more measures, hurdles and changes in COVID-related recommendations than any other industry making it logistically impossible to run an already extremely financially damaged business effectively.

“However we have soldiered on and done our best with the cards we have been dealt, complying and adapting as and when instructed.

“Scotland has had the toughest measures of any other country with the music ban destroying the small amount of atmosphere we were able to safely create, causing further damage to an industry who are as a whole, going above and beyond in ensuring compliance and safety.

“The ripple effect of these restrictions is something that have been overlooked time and time again.

“DJ’s, door staff, entertainers and floor sales staff have been cast aside

As fears mount over the future of the sector in Edinburgh and the central belt, Stephen Montgomery, spokesperson for the Scottish Hospitality Group called the new measures a “death sentence.”

He said: “The First Minister has effectively signed a death sentence for many businesses across the Scottish hospitality industry, while the real problem is socialising at home.

For the complete article go to https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/utterly-devastating-edinburgh-hospitality-industry-19067893

172777 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #1458 of 2225 🔗

Sky news have a little package of edinburgh. Noticable how gloomy people look in the streets.

Followed by studio talk from beth rigby with the london eye illuminated in purple behind her. It was a greenscreened shot so deliberately chosen.

172825 ▶▶▶ Arkansas, replying to Basics, #1459 of 2225 🔗

So, what’s your concept on the “purple + iconic symbol” thing?

172833 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Arkansas, 2, #1460 of 2225 🔗

Common Purpose Purple, the colour of Communitarianism. They ALL wear purple. Purple ties, purple scarves, purple hats, purple hankerchiefs and now purple face-nappies. The London eye is the all seeing eye of The City Of London, a separate state.

172866 ▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Two-Six, 3, #1461 of 2225 🔗

My old man has a purple nose, don’t worry he’s not one of them new world order clowns he just drinks rather a lot of Port and Gin

172873 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1462 of 2225 🔗

I’m annoyed – purple is my favourite colour 🙁

173162 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Arkansas, #1463 of 2225 🔗

No concept. It just pops up.

172922 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Basics, #1464 of 2225 🔗

Wasn’t that UKIP’s colour?

172779 ▶▶ jb12, replying to Basics, 11, #1465 of 2225 🔗

I sympathize, but why don’t they all just tell her to fuck off and stay open regardless.

172798 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to jb12, 6, #1466 of 2225 🔗

Totally agree. They are going out of business either way, so why not grow a pair and stay open? If enough of them did it, the state would have a very hard time keeping things under control.

But this is 2020, and the entire world is in the grip of a death cult, so it won’t happen.

172928 ▶▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Richard O, #1467 of 2225 🔗

Well only a few days ago I read a report on this site of a town in Wales that had about ten closure orders (upwards of 14 days) from the council. I don’t think these businesses can disobey or they just get shut. All routes lead to closure!

173044 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Richard O, #1468 of 2225 🔗

Exactly, no restrictions, everyone getting pished

Exactly, just like in the war films or westerns surrounded by the enemy, if I’m going down I’m going out fighting and taking a few people with me

173164 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to jb12, #1469 of 2225 🔗

Yes. This.
Exactly. Nothing to add. Spot on.

172787 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Basics, 2, #1470 of 2225 🔗

Not Scotland but remember Whitty said pubs might have to close when schools open so it will definitely happen to England. The stats don’t matter, there’s no reassessment of approach or nuance based on new evidence. They’re just ploughing on with the original plans formulated from Ferguson’s original model. We are crediting them with way too much intelligence to analyse and consider all the real data we’ve had since then.

172791 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Achilles, 6, #1471 of 2225 🔗

White also said on the 21st July 2020:

“If you look at the R, and the behaviours, quite a lot of the change that led to the R going below one occurred well before, or to some extent before, the 23rd, when the full lockdown started.”

But that’s been deliberately forgotten.

172797 ▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1472 of 2225 🔗

Still amazed that never got a reaction. That statement alone meant Ferguson’s model was no longer applicable.

172835 ▶▶▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Achilles, 1, #1473 of 2225 🔗

I wrote to my MP (Useless Tory in a safe seat) about that. It was ignored.

172845 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to Leemc23, 1, #1474 of 2225 🔗

Same!

172832 ▶▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #1475 of 2225 🔗

So true. It’s easily forgotten. But should never be forgotten. The socialists have been after pubs since they reopened. I’d like to pretend that the tax + vat won’t be missed too. But they will and Whitless and Mr Nick Sturgeon will still get paid. They will have “every sympathy” for your loss.

172867 ▶▶▶ James, replying to Achilles, 4, #1476 of 2225 🔗

I will say it again and again until I am blue
in the face:
They know exactly what they are doing, why they are doing it and what the consequences will be. For reasons I have not yet fathomed they are trying to systematically destroy our society. Presumably so they can construct a new one out of the ruins of the old?

172912 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to James, 1, #1477 of 2225 🔗

That’s exactly what dePiffe was saying in his speech.

By the way, in case you missed today’s UK Column broadcast, they do an excellent forensic job on the language of his speech and that of Sunak:

https://www.ukcolumn.org/

172901 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, #1478 of 2225 🔗

I’m lost for words at the petty vindictiveness of that mandate.

172757 Lisa from Toronto, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 13, #1479 of 2225 🔗

OMG, just when you think it couldn’t get any crazier! This from California:

The California governor’s office wants people who dine in restaurants to put their masks back on their faces “ in between bites .” The recommendation appears to contradict advice from the World Health Organization, which warns mask wearers to avoid touching their masks as much as possible, and to wash their hands before and after touching it — hardly practical to do at a dining table between mouthfuls.

The tweet on the subject issued by the office of Gov. Gavin Newsom on Saturday also seemed to contradict itself. An accompanying graphic instructs diners to “minimize the number of times you take your mask off.” An illustration shows a diner wearing her mask while perusing a menu, maskless while taking a bite, and then wearing the mask again with an empty plate.

The unusual and confusing suggestion to take the mask on and off repeatedly throughout a meal attracted mockery online. “It’s confirmed, I live in the dumbest state,” one Twitter user responded.

172771 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 4, #1480 of 2225 🔗

California once again leading the way in nanny state regulations. I never forgave them for being the first place in the world to ban smoking in bars in 1994.

I would pay money to watch a video recording of compliant Californians eating a meal:

Prepare morsel
Wash hands
Remove mask
Eat morsel
Wash hands
Put mask back on
Rinse and repeat

172785 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 2, #1481 of 2225 🔗

Any chance Newsom has shares in a company that manufactures these beauties?

172877 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Richard O, 1, #1482 of 2225 🔗

Perfect.

172890 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Richard O, #1483 of 2225 🔗

Quite likely..

172799 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 2, #1484 of 2225 🔗

Gavin Newsom has been nuts right from day one.

172802 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 4, #1485 of 2225 🔗

I have no doubt that the people making up these rules would have been witch burners in olden days.

172894 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nobody2020, #1486 of 2225 🔗

They’d have been the ones writing the book!
The burners were just enjoying following orders.

172988 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1487 of 2225 🔗

Same mentality yes.

172820 ▶▶ Adam, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #1488 of 2225 🔗

Might have been bullshit, but I read somewhere that there are counties in Florida that have mandated masks in your own home. As I say, can’t be sure it was true, but it really would not surprise me.

172836 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Adam, 1, #1489 of 2225 🔗

Not bullshit. Broward County in Florida did so back in July.

172846 ▶▶▶▶ Adam, replying to Richard O, 1, #1490 of 2225 🔗

😲 . Can see it happening here!

172850 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #1491 of 2225 🔗

The California governor’s office wants people who dine in restaurants to put their masks back on their faces “ in between bites .””

That’s got to be a spoof! Surely….

172871 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Mark, 1, #1492 of 2225 🔗

Office of the Governor of California

@CAgovernor

Going out to eat with members of your household this weekend? Don’t forget to keep your mask on in between bites.

Do your part to keep those around you healthy. #SlowtheSpread

http:// covid19.ca.gov

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eja21TjXkAI0ilF?format=jpg&name=900×900

6:00 PM · Oct 3, 2020·Sprout Social

172870 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #1493 of 2225 🔗

Madness! But here the Beeb has now tweeted this – looks like restaurant closures are on the way: https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1313910705180028928

Par for the course to put out information in the evening…

173028 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Carrie, #1494 of 2225 🔗

The replies make for heartwarming reading!

172765 DRW, replying to DRW, 25, #1495 of 2225 🔗

Went for a rare walk around town this afternoon. Depressing to see increasing maskage,
now 100% indoors, and about 75% outdoors. There’s even 100% non-mandated compliance from those just waiting at bus stops now.

Looks like the shopping area now has its own hi-vis-jacketed marshall, although he was far more interested in his phone than shouting at people for not following the marked one way system. Shops all on board with the no mask, no service rubbish but also advertising 50%+ off, can’t have it both ways you fools. Speaking of masks, I noticed a sign saying “Be like the Mayor’s Bear and Wear Your Masks.” What are we, fucking four year olds? Plus a lot more holy water (sanitiser) fountains.

The train station is getting use again, although still only 50% less than March. Most passengers are the college students back in again, they looked quite happy considering all the crap they must have to put up with all the time.

One solitary act of non-compliance was an unmuzzled young woman on a bus, sitting
the forbidden back seats too. She was looking out the windows seemingly saddened but smiled after I gave her a thumbs up. I’d have loved to have actually spoken to congratulate
her defiance.

172918 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to DRW, 2, #1496 of 2225 🔗

That’s the one beauty of the mask policy. I can immediately i