Last updated2020-10-09T11:25:58



175480 Mabel Cow, replying to Mabel Cow, 5, #1 of 1967 🔗

Yay again!

175489 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Mabel Cow, 123, #2 of 1967 🔗

Here’s today’s summary of “What I Believe”:

  • COVID-19 is no more deadly than the flu.
  • The virus is not the disease. The PCR test is fatally flawed.
  • Masks don’t stop viruses, but they can harm the wearer.
  • Lockdown has caused more lost years of life than COVID-19.
175508 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to Mabel Cow, 48, #3 of 1967 🔗

Most of the front bench know this. As do some of the key figures in opposition. This isn’t about a virus. It’s about a reset of the economy. A somewhat marxist fake naive green reset with a digital ID and no free speech.

175512 ▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to chaos, 30, #4 of 1967 🔗

You may well be right. However, my intended audience is the great British people. The members of the front bench are a lost cause.

175525 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Mabel Cow, 17, #5 of 1967 🔗

Unfortunately many of the Great British Public are still asleep.

That said they will get a nasty wake up call beginning next month.

175581 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Mabel Cow, 4, #6 of 1967 🔗

Unfortunately, the front bench are the ones in charge and making the rules.

175639 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Lms23, 9, #7 of 1967 🔗

You reckon ? 🙂

176618 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Lms23, #8 of 1967 🔗

Or is it Bill Gates?

175521 ▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to chaos, 6, #9 of 1967 🔗

Can’t see it working in the UK, apart from the health passport to travel out of the country. Stopping free speech these days is like trying to stop the tide.

175534 ▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Dan Clarke, 40, #10 of 1967 🔗

Is it? Where is it you think you have free speech today? On Twitter, FB, Instagram, YouTube? Definite Nope.

Here where literally no-one is listening? Oh sure.

And in the physical world, freedom of association has been smashed and crushed to a pulp, which directly affects freedom of speech.

175536 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to AidanR, 12, #11 of 1967 🔗

you’re not wrong

175544 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to AidanR, 5, #12 of 1967 🔗

The listening bit is different, but still many outlets for comments. Did politicians ever listen to the people?

175569 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Dan Clarke, 6, #13 of 1967 🔗

Only when they came with overwhelming force – something that the state is better insulated against today than it ever has been in the past.

175609 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to AidanR, 17, #14 of 1967 🔗

I’m taking heart from gbdeclaration.org. They have made a clear and reasonable appeal for a sensible and proportionate approach. I’m sure it doesn’t go nearly far enough for many of us, but it’s the sort of thing I can send to my colleagues without instantly being derided.

If we can distill our beliefs down into unequivocal, falsifiable statements then we can do what the GBD has done and make a case that doesn’t involve confusing charts or arguments over FPR or IFR or whatever, a case that simply says: “This is I what I believe. What do you believe?”

No hectoring, no facts, no emotions. Just statements that people can agree with or not. A badge that the converted can wear, a ready justification when challenged for going unmasked, a simple message that even kids can understand.

175694 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Quernus, replying to Mabel Cow, 18, #15 of 1967 🔗

Totally agree, and on that basis, I shared it on my Facebook profile (I usually steer well clear of any comment about what’s going on). Even so, I still had several “friends” saying I was being cruel for suggesting herd immunity as a strategy. Some people are so far gone I don’t think they can ever come back from this….

175745 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Quernus, 13, #16 of 1967 🔗

Yes. One of my closest friends gets all her info from the Grad and the Beeb. She’s an intelligent woman with an incisive mind that normally sees straight through BS. She’s a totally lost cause.

Recent conversation:
-” I don’t want to get into it with you but you can’t deny there’s a virus”
-“I never said there wasn’t a virus, just that it’s no worse than flu”
-I don’t want to get into it with you!
Long Silence
-“But people are dying!!”
Very long silence ………………..

175863 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Quernus, 21, #17 of 1967 🔗

While reading the novel Fall , I was struck by something that one of the characters said:

“We are all mortal. We only differ by the extent to which we ignore that fact.”

This statement was the inspiration for my Everyone Dies t-shirt, a design that reflects my struggle to understand the minds of the mask wearers.

Do they think that apart from COVID-19, humans are immortal?

Or do they think that the value of a life is measured solely in the number of times a heart beats, that the day-to-day quality of such a life is irrelevant?

To those who would wear a mask, I say:

“No one gets out of here alive. Make sure your life is worth living.”

175895 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Mabel Cow, 4, #18 of 1967 🔗

If you liked that book, I strongly recommend to you the Bobiverse series by Dennis E Taylor.

Book 1 is We Are Legion (We Are Bob).

It’s about a guy who signed up for cryogenic storage, and then got hit by a car and killed.

He wakes up as a mind instantiated on a computer that is part of a Von Neumann probe (a self-replicating exploratory spacecraft).

It’s a fantastic series of books, and the audiobooks are read by Ray Porter who is superb.

175913 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to AidanR, 2, #19 of 1967 🔗

Nice, thanks. I’ve added the series to my reading list.

I’m a sucker for Neal Stephenson and I’ve read everything he has published more than once, with the sole exception of Anathem which I just couldn’t get into, for some reason.

175931 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to AidanR, #20 of 1967 🔗

Thanks. They’re on Kindle Unlimited. I’ll get them next time round!

175909 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Quernus, replying to Mabel Cow, 20, #21 of 1967 🔗

I love your designs, Mabel -and you’re right, most people have never considered death or dying and so they’re scared at this inevitable prospect. But to live a full life, we have to be at peace with the fact that it’s all temporary, and could end at any minute. What better incentive is there to make the most of each moment? And that may ultimately be what differentiates those of us who can see the truth of what’s going on, and those who can’t. We’re rather live fully than just merely existing.

176301 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Mabel Cow, 7, #22 of 1967 🔗

“No one gets out of here alive. Make sure your life is worth living.”

That belongs on a t-shirt.

176254 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Quernus, 12, #23 of 1967 🔗

Herd immunity is not a strategy as such. It’s the natural outcome of a virus running its course, which can be accelerated with an effective vaccine.

“Cruel” How is the non-cruel strategy of lockdowns working for the country as a whole, for those who died alone, for those whose cancer has gone untreated etc etc etc.

176332 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Quernus, replying to Julian, 5, #24 of 1967 🔗

It’s one of the great imponderables of this whole mess, Julian – how the true believers simply seem unable to see that more harm is being caused by prioritising covid cases over everything else.

176628 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Julian, 4, #25 of 1967 🔗

I would far sooner not have my herd immunity accelerated by a Bill Gates liability free genocidal witches brew, jokingly referred to as a vaccine. You can go first.

175912 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jon G, replying to Mabel Cow, 7, #26 of 1967 🔗

Yep, I agree. And whilst I’ll no doubt be derided for saying so, it goes just about far enough as far as I’m concerned; in that it maps out a least harm route to epidemic equilibrium/herd immunity.

176177 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Joshua, replying to Mabel Cow, 5, #27 of 1967 🔗

The State is obviously worried that the GBD is gaining traction and are using their media mouthpieces to try to discredit it. You can see this quite plainly from a recent Sky News piece where the ‘journalist’ is using the existence of fake names on the petition and because some of the signatories are ‘out there’ types such as homeopaths.


175633 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to AidanR, 4, #29 of 1967 🔗

German resistance is switching to Telegram.

175650 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #30 of 1967 🔗

I’ll take a look at their Ohm page.

175663 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jay Berger, #31 of 1967 🔗

What’s Telegram?

175667 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Carrie, 6, #32 of 1967 🔗

It’s what you get from the Queen. Yours is probably on its way 😉

175693 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to AidanR, 1, #33 of 1967 🔗

Haha, in about another half a century 😉 From William, as Prince Charles will likely have gone by then?????

175781 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Carrie, 5, #34 of 1967 🔗

I refuse to accept that the Queen won’t go on for ever.

I’m afraid I’m done with the royal family when she and Phil are no longer on the scene.

175976 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to AidanR, 7, #35 of 1967 🔗

Don’t worry, she’s immortal.

175728 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Carrie, #36 of 1967 🔗

a messaging app for your phone . bit like whatsapp , but apparently very secure

175809 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to mjr, 2, #37 of 1967 🔗

Is it available for desktop / laptop?
My phone is now strictly calls only.

175906 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Kevin 2, 2, #38 of 1967 🔗

It does work on a computer/laptop as well. I have it.

175949 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Kevin 2, 1, #39 of 1967 🔗

I’ve used it from my laptop.

177199 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Watt, replying to AidanR, #40 of 1967 🔗

Precisely put. We can not afford to wait it out though.

175708 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Dan Clarke, 7, #41 of 1967 🔗

The health passport is a big issue if you have family abroad..

176306 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Carrie, 2, #42 of 1967 🔗

The health passport is a big issue if you’re a dual citizen. I feel like I’m going to have to pick a country and never be able to see the other one again.

176600 ▶▶▶▶▶ LS99, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #43 of 1967 🔗

Didn’t someone on here say that they had been refused entry into a Toby Cavery because they didn’t have a smartphone with the T and T app? And on UK Column today, they talked about a lady who was refused a hysterectomy by the NHS for refusing to have a pre-operative nasal swab for Covid 19. These are just two examples of how things are already panning out so I think you’re incorrect to think it will just be foreign travel that requires the health pass. UKC also covered the health pass and yes, you’re correct in thinking that foreign travel will require a health passport.

175631 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to chaos, 4, #44 of 1967 🔗

First oligarchic fascism, then Marxist.
Otherwise, I agree.

176616 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to chaos, 2, #45 of 1967 🔗

And of course Keir Starmer is on board with all that. His job is to be virtually invisible and he seems to be very good at that.

175547 ▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to Mabel Cow, 11, #46 of 1967 🔗

Especially this:

“The virus is not the disease”

I am tired of hearing people conflate the two.

176449 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Mabel Cow, 15, #47 of 1967 🔗

Can I add, I believe that you can identify ‘covidiots’ because they:

Swerve off the pavement if you come within 10 feet of them
Wear masks in cars when alone
Wear masks AND those plastic welders masks
Wear masks when outside
Wear masks in shops AND have that permanent wide eyed look of utter horror
Believe everything that MSM says about the ‘mass killer’
Think thousands are dying every day, just from covid
Say ‘if it saves just one life’
Say ‘be kind’…………….

177338 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Mabel Cow, 2, #48 of 1967 🔗

Have you ever considered that the testers themselves are spreading the virus?

The are up close and personal with many people.

177339 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Mabel Cow, 3, #49 of 1967 🔗

A simple question to write to your MP – ( it’s better than doing nothing)

A couple of weeks ago Boris Johnson said a second lockdown would be a catastrophe for the British economy.

Why then is he so keen to have one?

His plan must be to bring a catastrophe to the British economy.

175484 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 2, #50 of 1967 🔗


175511 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Achilles, 2, #51 of 1967 🔗

All that glisters is not gold;
Often have you heard that told.

175549 ▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to IanE, 2, #52 of 1967 🔗

Yes. It could just be a turd rolled in glitter.

175566 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Jones, replying to The Filthy Engineer, 1, #53 of 1967 🔗

such an object is even rarer than gold.

175761 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to The Filthy Engineer, 4, #54 of 1967 🔗

That accurately describes dePiffle’s election campaign.

175485 stewart, replying to stewart, 241, #55 of 1967 🔗

When will society start caring about us?

We are constantly being beaten over the head with the mantra that we need to do our bit to protect others. Wear a mask, socially distance, follow the rules. To fail to do so, we are told, is to be selfish and uncaring about others.

But when will others start caring about us? Every day we all read a half dozen messages on here from people who are struggling badly to cope with this situation. They are heartbreaking messages of despair. And most of us sympathise instantly because they are feelings that we all share. Feelings of helplessness, frustration and distress.

That our liberty has been constrained is a fact. Some people may not mind it. But for those of us on here, it is very real and deeply distressing. For us liberty is not a frivolous luxury, it is essential to our lives, almost as important as basic sustenance.

We worry about new surveillance and control mechanisms being put in place permanently. Some people may not mind them or even welcome them. Some people may not believe these things will come to pass. But many of us on here feel real, profound dread at the prospect of these new controls on our lives and believe the danger to be imminent.

For most of us, being forced to wear a mask is not a small thing. Many people don’t mind it or even think it’s a good idea. But to those of us on here It is a potent symbol of subjugation. When we are coerced into wearing a mask, we feel assaulted. In every bone in our body, it feels like a dangerous, hideous sham and the sense of repression at having to wear one is extremely profound and real.

As sentient creatures that we are, when faced with a danger our instinct tells us either to fight or flee. Some people feel so threatened by this virus that they want to hide away from it. Most of us on here are not threatened enough by this danger to hide away, we want to face it and let our bodies take it on if necessary. And being held back and told to be fearful when every fibre in our bodies is telling us the opposite is maddening and frustrating.

Our distress, our frustration, our dread and our feeling of helplessness at the overwhelming power of the state is just as real and just as damaging to our wellbeing as the fear and worry of those who are terrified by this virus.

We are tired of being dismissed. We aren’t crazy conspiracists. We are people who once upon a time this country was proud of. People who value liberty, people who refuse to give in to fear, people who are independent and self-reliant.

When will the media start paying attention to us? When will the government start implementing measures for us? We exist also. When will society start caring about us?

175510 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to stewart, 41, #56 of 1967 🔗

Well said. If I can recommend your comment more than once I will.

I’ve always had a cynical view of humanity but the scales well and truly fell for me back in 2016. Four years later nothing has changed, in fact its become worse.

It’s like the Picture of Dorian Gray, the ugliness within is being exposed more and more as time goes by.

I know of people who will happily throw the likes of us under the bus if it suits them. And I will never trust them. Ever.

175540 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Bart Simpson, 13, #57 of 1967 🔗

Hear hear.

175626 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Bart Simpson, 29, #58 of 1967 🔗

“I’ve always had a cynical view of humanity but the scales well and truly fell for me back in 2016.”

Me too, although my sense of how wrong things were predated even 2016, with the response to the financial crisis, followed by the wars initiated by Western politicians and how they failed to deal with the waves of immigrants from the ME and elsewhere. None of it made sense. The clue was when someone pointed out that all these world leaders weren’t as stupid as we thought they must be, which inevitably led to the conclusion that what they were doing was deliberate, which led to the next question: why?

I have felt this weight on me for a long time. The suppression of free speech has also been a long time in the making, which accelerated after Trump won the election and the social media giants all said they wouldn’t allow such an election result to happen again.

I’ve seen the same sort of suppression of views over the climate change catastrophe apocalypse debate, where any dissension is ruthlessly quashed.
This is what’s happening now with CV19, where our government, with others, are refusing to be swayed from the course they’ve set, and will ignore and dismiss any evidence to the contrary. Another general election is a long way away, so they have no fear of being thrown out by the electorate, even assuming there’s any real opposition, and the real damage will be done and complete by then.

175638 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Lms23, 18, #59 of 1967 🔗

Agree with you. I work with perfectly nice people but have really vile views to the point that they’re happy to suppress free speech and not listen to alternative views.

That for me is a no-no and while I have to get on with them to get the job done. I will never seek them for help even if they were the last person on earth.

175687 ▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Bart Simpson, 11, #60 of 1967 🔗

Most normies don’t (or can’t) think things through to see where their apparently benign mainstream views lead, when it involves more than 2 steps, and requires them to question their assumptions.

175831 ▶▶▶▶ Felice, replying to Lms23, 20, #61 of 1967 🔗

I’ve been a long time man-made global warming sceptic (I have a geology degree so can see things in perspective) and there is absolutely no serious academic opposition to it. To contradict the ‘religion’ is to commit career suicide. At least covid-19 has a number of serious academics who are challenging the ‘science’ – at least, at the moment they are.

176622 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Felice, 4, #62 of 1967 🔗

It’s the same mindset, and I suspect the very same people behind the global warming/climate change agenda as are behind this CV19 narrative. I wonder how long it’ll be before people won’t be able to question the nonsense of this unpandemic.

176442 ▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #63 of 1967 🔗

2016 for me too,the vote to Leave the EU was the biggest public vote ever and the scumeratti decided to ignore it.

175514 ▶▶ Llamasaurus Rex, replying to stewart, 14, #64 of 1967 🔗

Very well articulated Stewart. Thank you…. and exactly how I feel too. Good to know there are others (a minority, but growing, one hopes) of like minds.

175535 ▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to stewart, 14, #65 of 1967 🔗

This is another post that must be included when the history of the Great Covid Scamdemic is written.

Well said!!

175562 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to stewart, 15, #66 of 1967 🔗

Bravo. If only our pathetic, cowardly leaders gave speeches this rousing.

175578 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to stewart, 9, #67 of 1967 🔗

Beautiful Stewart so utterly true.

175585 ▶▶ Louieg, replying to stewart, 21, #68 of 1967 🔗

Don’t wear a mask! Get an exemption card like I and my partner have and wear it round your neck with a NHS lanyard ( purchased off EBay). Though it’s surprising how many panoply have never heard of exemptions in the hospitality industry. Not had any problems and when I see another non mask wearer ( not often sadly but then I live in a rural area) we exchange furtive looks of triumph! Little uplifts in this mass hysteria world!

175612 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Louieg, 4, #69 of 1967 🔗

Can be printed off the Gov. UK site.

175927 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #70 of 1967 🔗

That will get you put straight on The Lost but their website does say a handmade sign will suffice.

176026 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 1, #71 of 1967 🔗

The List !

175657 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Louieg, 26, #72 of 1967 🔗

Why would I walk around with a badge on my chest that says “Hey, check me out, I’m some kind of spaz”?

I know my rights, I have a copy of the regs on the homepage of my phone and I will give anyone who challenges me both barrels from the Disability Discrimination Act.

175826 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to AidanR, 4, #73 of 1967 🔗


175934 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to AidanR, 4, #74 of 1967 🔗

Likewise but have only used it once to show my favourite convenience store owner, because nobody had advised him of the law and then sent him a copy

176320 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to AidanR, 7, #75 of 1967 🔗

“A spaz”. Classy. I wear my “spaz status” with pride, Aidan. Always have been different from the rest of the crowd. Probably accounts for why I was able to see past the propaganda, even if it took me a while.

But you go ahead and diss people who are resisting in any way they feel comfortable. I’m still waiting to see more than the occasional non-mask wearer. However, a fair number of the bus drivers smile and say hello nicely when I get on board. All non-mask wearers, of course. Probably happy to see a human being.

Now if you want to call it a yellow star, I’d go along with that.

175825 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Louieg, 12, #76 of 1967 🔗

I don’t wear a lanyard. It’s illegal to be challenged. End of!

176324 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #77 of 1967 🔗

It is, but I think it’s counterproductive to s**t on those of us who choose to wear a lanyard.

176529 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to ConstantBees, 4, #78 of 1967 🔗

I believe in freedom of choice. If you want to wear a lanyard, be my guest. If people want to wear face nappies, that should be their choice too.
Incidentally, given the original derivation of spaz, I find it an offensive word.

176814 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Louieg, #79 of 1967 🔗

I prefer the exemption badges also from Ebay.

175588 ▶▶ Trish, replying to stewart, 31, #80 of 1967 🔗

This really resonates. I’m in New Zealand, and like probably half the population I have a loved one who lives overseas. We have been essentially prevented from seeing them for 7 months now and counting. The worry of when we might be able to see them again is real and distressing, particularly if it’s for a family emergency (death, illness) because there is no lee-way in the two week mandatory isolation in managed facilities that needs to be taken into account. And on top of this, we have to pay for this – a public health measure to “protect” the rest of the population of New Zealand who are hiding away from reality. This anxiety caused by separation from family is basically ignored at best, and engenders vitriol at worst. It’s a nasty situation and one that seems to attract no concern either from our government or from “fellow” New Zealanders.

175835 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Trish, 12, #81 of 1967 🔗

I can’t see my grandkids who live in the same town!
My son hasn’t seen his own daughters for 8 weeks now.
We’re in local mockdown, the mothers are playing by the book and there’s nothing we can do.

175894 ▶▶▶▶ Trish, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #82 of 1967 🔗

That must be very hard for you 🙁

175965 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Trish, 5, #83 of 1967 🔗

One mum is police, so hard for her to break the rules. I accept what I can’t change and change whatever I can.

175607 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to stewart, 25, #84 of 1967 🔗

Very well put.

All it takes is for a parent to sue a school for their kids facial sores. Where was the risk assessment for mask wearing? Where is the liability (there is none)?

175671 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to mhcp, 16, #85 of 1967 🔗

Anyone here want to be the first to sue a school? Might a group be able to get together via UsForThem and do it that way?
Imeptigo is no joke, and is *extremely* infectious…

Though mask mouth and associated dental problems might be taken more seriously in court?

175845 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 1, #86 of 1967 🔗

Cetavlex used to clear impetigo very quickly – though they might have changed the formula since I was a kid.

175963 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Carrie, 1, #87 of 1967 🔗

Tissue salts 4 (Ferrum Phos) and 7 (Kali Sulph) is recommended for impetigo

177644 ▶▶▶▶▶ Prawn, replying to Victoria, 1, #88 of 1967 🔗

My daughter came home with impetigo this week on her face. She’s not wearing a mask anymore and hasn’t been challenged (public bus or school). It’s child abuse.

175673 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to stewart, 23, #89 of 1967 🔗

If you look at Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, you can see what the effect of this has been.

Level 1 is okay (when the supermarket shelves aren’t empty), level 2 is compromised and only satisfied under a tight definition. Levels 3, 4 & 5 have been practically abolished.

comment image

175675 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to AidanR, 6, #90 of 1967 🔗

Very interesting, shows how carefully planned this is. Thanks for posting.

175682 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Kate, 7, #91 of 1967 🔗

It’s an interesting topic and I’ve only just thought about it framed in this way, but it presents a really stark picture of what this is doing to people.

No-one who even knows the first thing about psychology can ignore this.


175686 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to AidanR, 2, #92 of 1967 🔗

Maybe we should send it to Julia H-B or post it to respected sceptics?

175689 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to AidanR, 8, #93 of 1967 🔗

I have posted a comment lower down about the destruction of culture. I could not work out why they would do this from an economic p.o.v. But I now think this really is a multipronged attack.

175733 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to AidanR, 2, #94 of 1967 🔗

I also like the slightly more nuanced approach provided by Manfred Max-Neef’s Fundamental human needs .

175685 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to AidanR, #95 of 1967 🔗

I’ve just started studying psychology and thought exactly the same thing!!!

175718 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to AidanR, 7, #96 of 1967 🔗

I’m not very fond of Maslow’s chart. He constructed this chart as an academic exercise. He may even have believed it himself. It may be useful in some senses, but it’s not been experimentally verified. It’s not an absolute truth.

The second rung of this chart, “security, safety” is particularly bad!

What really concerns me about this chart, is the language. “Need” is a word to avoid, if possible.

“need” could also be regarded as “clinging”.

It is perhaps best to think in terms of things you may require or things you may simply like. (That may be in some contexts a psychological trick you can play on yourself.)

So, for example, rather than clinging to relationships by saying “I need friends” which could cause anyone to run a mile, maybe choose instead to say “I like friends”.


It’s much less clingy. And results in much less stress.

175778 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to John P, 5, #97 of 1967 🔗

Some very good points John. Perhaps, though, it’s a useful rhetorical tool – at which point its scientific validity scarcely matters.

176326 ▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to AidanR, #98 of 1967 🔗

Agree. It’s not like the people we’re up against care about scientific validity.

175948 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to AidanR, #99 of 1967 🔗

Just about what Hitler had planned for Britain and that was being nice because he did not see us as natural enemies.

176210 ▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to AidanR, #100 of 1967 🔗

Yes yes yes. YES.

175801 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to stewart, 14, #101 of 1967 🔗

I think if you look at the frantic arse-covering the government is currently undertaking, you’ll find that we aren’t being dismissed.

I’ve never been coerced into wearing a mask. I just don’t wear one and act as if that’s perfectly normal – which it is.

I am very concerned about the situation but I REFUSE to be distressed about it, for that is the way we will lose.

Stop wallowing in victim mode and DO something, if it’s only to add to the anti-mockdown comments in the press. Go and encourage the journalists who are speaking out, because that will embolden the editors to publish more truth and less propaganda.

There’s a protest walk in London tomorrow. Stand up and be counted!

175870 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Cheezilla, 16, #102 of 1967 🔗

Please don’t presume to know what I am doing. I am very confident I do plenty. I choose not to share it for very good reasons.

I haven’t written that to wallow in self pity. I did so in anger and frustration at people’s despair which I read about on here ever day.

Having said that, I agree, we should all actually do something. But to pretend it’s easy is silly. Clearly many people on here find try and find it hard. And this site helps to re-charge and embolden.

Hopefully between us all, including your tough love approach, we can stir up protest and resistance.

175900 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to stewart, 6, #103 of 1967 🔗

Sounds like we’re all in violent agreement, which is currently my favourite kind 🙂

176006 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to stewart, 3, #104 of 1967 🔗

I presumed nothing. I merely responded to your negativity.

I would never say it’s easy – I’m not finding it at all easy myself.

But as long as there are even small things I can do, I refuse to become despondent because that way I’m a collaborator. Small things add up.

I totally understand your anger and frustration but responding negatively to people in despair isn’t exactly helpful, is it?

176158 ▶▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #105 of 1967 🔗

I don’t think that claiming the importance of liberty to so many of us is negative. I’ve simply tried to explain how important it is by drawing attention to how much damage is done to our wellbeing when it is taken away.

But if it brought you down, I’m sorry. Definitely not the intention.

176535 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to stewart, 2, #106 of 1967 🔗

Thanks me too. You didn’t bring me down but it was clear that emotions were quite raw this morning and many people were feeling despondent.

176330 ▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #107 of 1967 🔗

It’s easy to have a macho attitude about this. It’s unrealistic to expect everyone to have the same attitude. I think my unmasked face is a statement.

175968 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #108 of 1967 🔗

Great post

175994 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Victoria, 2, #109 of 1967 🔗

Thank you!

177251 ▶▶▶ Watt, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #110 of 1967 🔗

I’m in London. Is there a link, please?

177466 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #111 of 1967 🔗

I never heard about the Rally! Stay clear of the baton wielding thugs in uniform. 😉

176017 ▶▶ CGL, replying to stewart, 2, #112 of 1967 🔗

My goodness that is so powerful. Thank you for putting how I feel into such clarity

176096 ▶▶ Ed Turnbull, replying to stewart, 14, #113 of 1967 🔗

Stewart, unlike others I don’t read despondency in your comment, simply an accurate – albeit bleak – assessment of the current situation. To answer your question: society already does care about us. At least that part of society which we comprise. As for the rest – the majority – I fear the answer is “never”. Their priorities are not ours, they seem to care nothing for liberty. I doubt many of them have read Ben Franklin’s wise words about sacrificing essential liberty to purchase temporary security, but if they have I’m sure they vehemently disagree with them.

As to why, well I’ll make this observation and I welcome the thoughts of others on it. Most adults are in fact no such thing. Okay, they may have reached the age of majority, be working, paying taxes, having children, and all the other superficial markers of adulthood, but they aren’t really adults. So, why do I say that? Well, I think being an adult requires one to meet three criteria:

1) acceptance of your own mortality; and I mean real acceptance, not merely mouthing the words;
2) acceptance of the responsibility for steering your own course, making your own choices;
3) accepting the accountability for the outcomes of your choices; so, if you get it wrong you hold your hands up and exclaim “mea culpa”.

Now those are all really scary things to accept, as borne out by the fact that many seem to think if HMG keeps them wrapped in cotton wool they’ll live forever. The fact that they won’t is news they just won’t hear. As to point 2, so many want someone in authority to tell them what to do, I suspect for two reasons: one it relieves them of the burden of making decisions, and two it absolves them of their accountability if they get it wrong. Now many will claim they do accept the responsibility for making their own choices, but, in reality, they do so only in a limited way. And the vast majority still want a scapegoat to which they point if their lives go pear-shaped from their own poor choices.

In my own case I meet all three criteria, and thus consider myself an adult, but I think the majority of society fail to pass at least one of those tests outlined above. And we grown ups end up being punished by the children who vastly outnumber us.

176274 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Ed Turnbull, 4, #114 of 1967 🔗

I love your three criteria and agree with your assessment of the situation

177411 ▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Ed Turnbull, #115 of 1967 🔗

Spot on – particularly point 2.

176131 ▶▶ Nicky, replying to stewart, 1, #116 of 1967 🔗

This is such a great summary of things I would like to type it up and show it to others if you are ok with that? I don’t think it should be lost on the page transfer

176149 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Nicky, 1, #117 of 1967 🔗

Please do.

176189 ▶▶▶▶ Nicky, replying to stewart, #118 of 1967 🔗

Thank you 😀

176137 ▶▶ EllGee, replying to stewart, 3, #119 of 1967 🔗

Take an award for the post of the week. Well said indeed

176148 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to stewart, 1, #120 of 1967 🔗

Great comment Stuart. You have verbalised what so many of us are feeling. Keep up the good work my friend. Cheers, Arnie.

176161 ▶▶ Fiat, replying to stewart, #121 of 1967 🔗


176205 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to stewart, #122 of 1967 🔗

I’m with you, Stewart.

176512 ▶▶ wat tyler, replying to stewart, 5, #123 of 1967 🔗

Stewart i’m sorry to tell you but if you want your liberty and freedom then the best thing to do is get off your knees and start fighting for it .Asking the (government) very people who took it away in the first place to help you is in my view bordering on madness.I’m sorry if that sounds rude and it’s nothing personal i promise you but i find it hard to stomach the constant appeals for help on this site .Lets get things straight ,the government won’t help us nor the opposition nor the Queen or Jesus ,there aint a knight in shining armour or a loving earth mother to make things better .All there is is ourselves and we should be thankful that faced with that reality we can clearly start to find our own way out of the mess we are in .So getting things in perspective lets start fighting our way out . We need to start doing stuff amongst ourselves .Getting posters, stickers ,graffiti ,going to demo’s. It’s lonely for a lot of people on here ,so i would suggest joining a local group ,there are links in the forum or you can ask if anyone is living local and wants to meet .All you really need is one or two others to work with and you will be surprised what plans you can come up with .maybe ask a shop to put a NO MASK WE DON’T ASK poster in their window or buy some exemption cards and give them out and encourage others to go maskless . What i would say to everyone is you may not realise but every little helps and makes you feel a part of the bigger movement .So don’t despair people work together in unity .We have each other and with strong resolve we will pull through and win .

176798 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to wat tyler, #124 of 1967 🔗

Well said, Wat. Sophisticated whingeing is still whingeing. We all need to do it sometimes, but we should all be doing something positive as well.

176763 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to stewart, #125 of 1967 🔗


177146 ▶▶ Basics, replying to stewart, 1, #126 of 1967 🔗

They don’t really care about us.
It’s a good tune.

Thank you Stewart. Wonderfully strong thoughts comment.

175493 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 20, #127 of 1967 🔗

Mind Games. First we are told the young and intelligent voted to REmain. Now the young and stupid are causing Covid. Same Uni students apparently.

175499 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Dan Clarke, 9, #128 of 1967 🔗

Yet they were all correct about voting Remain we were told, and we were destroying their future. Now the narrative has changed and the young are ruining the elderly’s future by killing them!

175509 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to JohnB, 6, #129 of 1967 🔗

Amazing how anyone still believes them. Sceptics are always on the right side of history.

175513 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Dan Clarke, #130 of 1967 🔗

And of science!

175515 IanE, 6, #131 of 1967 🔗

Great Bob cartoon: so apt!

175518 Mike Collins, replying to Mike Collins, 23, #132 of 1967 🔗

If we’re depending on the Great British public to stand up to this we’re doomed. The BBC has just published a recipe for a tuna & sweet corn baked potato, take a tin of tuna and add a tin of sweet corn, mix in mayo. Add to spuds, serves 4.

We’re doomed I tell you, doomed. I’m off to retrain as the first ever Northern, 18 stone, 57 year old dance/fitness teacher, you really can’t make this stuff up.

175591 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Mike Collins, 3, #133 of 1967 🔗

I guess they’re readying people for the number of food stuffs they currently have access to, to shrink. Cos CLIMATE CHANGE! Never mind. They’ll have the insects the UN keeps trying to foist on us.

175702 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Lili, 8, #134 of 1967 🔗

It’s interesting… I could easily live solely on produce grown in the UK. I guess most people of my generation and older could do.

But the wokeys who care so deeply about the cuddly polar bears are going to have trouble sourcing UK-grown quinoa and avocado.

175871 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to AidanR, 12, #135 of 1967 🔗

Ironically, avocado farming is an environmental disaster. Almonds too.

175878 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to AidanR, 3, #136 of 1967 🔗

We try to eat local as much as possible but the main crop round here is lamb which I eat but AlanG doesn’t.

But look here: https://www.britishquinoa.co.uk/ AidanR, I suspect you will love the little video of the main bloke and it’s organic as well! 🙂

I suspect you’re right about UK avocados Maybe when it gets a bit warmer. . . . . . 😉 MW

176264 ▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #137 of 1967 🔗

It’s probably pure coincidence that those flowerheads look so much like cannabis 🙂

176138 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Smith, replying to AidanR, #138 of 1967 🔗

You can get British Quinoa. Hodmedod’s do it and other foods you don’t associate with being grown in the UK like British Baked Beans

176227 ▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Jonathan Smith, #139 of 1967 🔗

Live and learn 🙂 How much of demand do we think could be sourced locally?

176334 ▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Jonathan Smith, #140 of 1967 🔗

I’ve grown quinoa, although I found I didn’t really like the taste of it.

176566 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to ConstantBees, 1, #141 of 1967 🔗

I still don’t know how to pronounce it.

176937 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ adele, replying to Edward, #142 of 1967 🔗

This made me laugh 🤣
I called it quin-owa for ages! I think it’s pronounced keen-waa, but I still read it quin-owa 😆

175866 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lili, 4, #143 of 1967 🔗

I recently drove 500 miles to the South coast and back. No insects on my windscreen. Worrying!

176338 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Cheezilla, #144 of 1967 🔗

Yes, that phenomena’s been reported elsewhere. When I was young and drove a car, I had to clean the windscreen all the time. There are still insects on my allotment, so they’re not all gone.

176539 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to ConstantBees, #145 of 1967 🔗

I’ve not had anywhere near as many as usual in my garden this summer.

176632 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Cheezilla, #146 of 1967 🔗

I’ve noticed that.
We had a lot of different bees through the summer, and had a lot of butterflies early on, but a female wagtail decimated the butterfly population she was feeding two of her young. There were butterfly wings all over the garden…..

175719 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mike Collins, #147 of 1967 🔗

How big a tin of tuna? Would need to be big to serve 4 people…

175773 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Carrie, 3, #148 of 1967 🔗

And twice as big as that if you also have 2 cats

175857 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 2, #149 of 1967 🔗

I was thinking that. My granddaughter can eat a full tin no problem.

175519 D B, replying to D B, 6, #150 of 1967 🔗

We have all this info available to us, we daily log on and get our rage going, yet what is it actually doing? Feel like it’s groundhog day – the govts, round the world not just here (UK), making up shite as they go along.

At least back in the day they had the decency to put the Berlin Wall up overnight, we’ve literally had a year (give or take) of berating and them putting it up around us, moving us out of the way to construct this.

Nothing, nothing at all will ever be the same, even when Boris “lifts restrictions next September”

We have lost, if in the face of such overwhelming science, opinion, debate etc the virus isn’t what it was originally thought it would be these restrictions are still applied, there is no world in which our clear, rational lives can be rewarded with our basic freedoms again.

175713 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to D B, 3, #151 of 1967 🔗

I completely agree.

My take now is that I have to accept this, adapt to survive, and engineer my life in such a way as to have a meaningful existence in this new world. Plans are well underway in that respect.

175735 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to D B, 2, #152 of 1967 🔗

Cannot agree. Maybe I’m just stubborn.

175771 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #153 of 1967 🔗

There’s a psychological price to be paid for refusing to accept what is observably true, just on the basis that you don’t wish it to be true. I’d advise you to reflect on that.

176811 ▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to AidanR, 2, #154 of 1967 🔗

The 77th Brigade would be proud of the last three comments by you and D.B. People come here for a bit of hope to get through the day because they are “woke” to the seriousness of this situation. You’re entitled to your opinion but it’s not helpful IMHO.

177464 ▶▶▶▶▶ D B, replying to Lockdown Truth, #155 of 1967 🔗

haha well, you’re entitled to yours but IMHO it’s not helpful either.

177417 ▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #156 of 1967 🔗

I agree with you both. While we must continue to fight to stop this while there is still a window, we must also plan to live within, but apart from, their new order and work to bring it down from the inside.

175520 Smelly Melly, replying to Smelly Melly, 23, #157 of 1967 🔗

Just a bit of nostalgia, do you remember the AIDS virus? Well it’s still out there and killing a million people a year. Also can I take my condom off now as it’s getting very wiffy.

176281 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to Smelly Melly, 4, #158 of 1967 🔗

I’ve seen lots of parallels…
1. Not many caring about the effect on developing nations.
2. Drugs companies making huge profits.
3. Stigmatisation of victims.
4. Proof that humans will always take calculated risks to live the lifestyle they want to even if the alternative might be a deadly disease.
5. Scaremongering that you can catch it from kissing and hugging.

175522 Bart Simpson, 31, #159 of 1967 🔗

Another museum contemplating redundancies:


And the DCMS simply throwing money at the problem:



As I’ve said before and I will say it again, why is it that the museums and heritage sector happy to go a begging but not to deal with the root of the problem? Lockdown, social distancing and mandatory muzzling are the main cause of their abysmal visitor numbers and little to non existent revenue from retail, catering, events, etc. It’s nothing to do with the virus.

They should be campaigning to end all lockdown and Covid “safety” measures if they want to survive. The money from the government is not a bottomless pit and will not save them in the long run.

If they’re still too blind to see what’s going on then they deserve to go bust.

175523 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 26, #160 of 1967 🔗

Yesterday someone asked why people/press were not more sceptical. This chap might have the answer

“This is the secret of propaganda. The saturation of a group of people with ideas without them even noticing it.
Of course propaganda has a goal but the goal must be so clever and brilliantly concealed that the people who are to be influenced by it don’t notice anything.

With wise foresight however we disciplined the journalists so that at critical times we did not even need to give orders, a mere sign was enough to make clear to the press there would be no discussion.
They started to anticipate the party line.”

Joseph Goebbels.

175563 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to karenovirus, 7, #161 of 1967 🔗

There are things that were written down and known by all 50 years ago, memories of which have been quietly erased since then by the cathedral.

Most people under 40 now think they were born in the year zero.

175850 ▶▶ Marialta, replying to karenovirus, 1, #162 of 1967 🔗


176055 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Marialta, #163 of 1967 🔗

Wasn’t me it was him !

175858 ▶▶ Felice, replying to karenovirus, 6, #164 of 1967 🔗

I spent the best part of 20 years living in the Sultanate of Oman, where the press is definitely not free. There are supposed to be laws about what you can and cannot say, but they are so vaguely drawn that no-one knows quite what is OK to say and what is not. It is up to the censor to decide. As a result, the press tread a very cautious line, never taking any risks. The result is a load of very bland papers, full of gushing articles praising the wise deeds of the Sultan, and lots of pictures of smiling participants at opening ceremonies, conferences etc.
But the difference between our muzzled press and that of the Sultanate, is that many of the people know what is really going on. Gossip is a favourite occupation.

176167 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Felice, #165 of 1967 🔗

Omani press asper the latter part of my post ?

179113 ▶▶▶▶ Felice, replying to karenovirus, #166 of 1967 🔗

Absolutely. And I must admit that we too were careful as to what we said in public. The most unexpected faux pas could get you sent home on the next flight.

175879 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to karenovirus, 2, #167 of 1967 🔗

But the opposite is happening and the propaganda is starting to be questioned and exposed.

175940 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to karenovirus, 6, #168 of 1967 🔗

Hi, Have you got a source for this quote, Karenovirus? It got us looking up Goebbels quotes but we couldn’t find the full quote. Anyway, it all makes absolutely chilling reading. Basically it’s all there, everything the government is imposing on us now, faithfully followed by the Behavioural Insights Team/SPI-B and stenographed by the MSM.

I found an interesting article about his secretary who died in 2017, aged 106. She says that people think that they would have stood up to the Nazis if they’d been German in the 1930s but that actually they wouldn’t. It has also reminded us that the Nazis called themselves Socialists (!) Of course now we recognise their policies as fascist.

I think Cheezilla is right to say that questioning is going on but I am not sure if there’s nearly enough of it. It seems we just have to keep plugging on with people, support what opposition there is and, as AidanR says, make plans for how we are to survive as things get worse. MW

175992 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 8, #169 of 1967 🔗

We have the internet now, so while it works for the propagandists, it’s also easier to find counter arguments. Just look at this site!
And Talk radio. UK Column. And Vernon Coleman, Ivor Cummings, Carl Vernon. And loads more!
We can circulate info about the German lawsuit and The AI report. We can raise support for Simon Dolan and for the BGD.
We must NOT say we’re beaten just as our momentum is becoming evident!

176090 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #170 of 1967 🔗

We must NOT say we’re beaten just as our momentum is becoming evident!

Absolutely not and we’re doing the above anyway but it’s good to know the enemy’s techniques. MW

176807 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, #171 of 1967 🔗

With you there!

176068 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #172 of 1967 🔗

I’ve known for a long time that was Goebbels way of thinking, the quote is from footage of a speech in a German Documentary series called Hitlers Henchmen (eng. subs) . I’m out and about for a while but can give you more details later.

176077 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to karenovirus, 1, #173 of 1967 🔗

Thanks. MW

176345 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #174 of 1967 🔗

There’s not a lot more to add, my post is all it has on the methodology of his propaganda. The doc is mainly to do with his insecurities resulting from his deformed leg and his desperation to be liked by Hitler, even sacrificing his Czech mistress and ultimately his children.
It is quite an old doc but that has the advantage of having testimony from contemporaries.

I allegedly downloaded it from YouTube and cite as co-criminal Bill Gates and his Microsoft corporation.

176615 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to karenovirus, #175 of 1967 🔗

Thanks, I’ll look it up. MW

175941 ▶▶ Marialta, replying to karenovirus, 4, #176 of 1967 🔗

‘….Propaganda on its own cannot force its way into unwilling minds; neither can it inculcate something wholly new……. the gifted propagandist brings to boil ideas and passions already simmering in the minds of his hearers ….Where opinion is not coerced, people can be made to believe only in what they already “know”. Wise words from Eric Hoffer ‘ The True Believer

176178 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Marialta, #177 of 1967 🔗

Also Hitlers methodology, repeating back to his audience what they already believed. Anti semitism was widespread in central and eastern Europe, he didn’t need to persuade them just that he was the man to deal with it.

175527 AidanR, replying to AidanR, 25, #178 of 1967 🔗

Just had an interesting text from my GP surgery, the core of which is:

“During COVID, NHSE mandated that consent [to receive SMS messages] was implied for all patients.If you continue to consent, take no further action, if you dissent please text back DECLINE to 0790xxxxxxxxx”

So clearly GPs have had some pushback, and someone has advised them to do this.

175530 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to AidanR, 11, #179 of 1967 🔗

Plus they might have been threatened with complaints to the Information Commission for violation of GDPR rules.

175565 ▶▶ alw, replying to AidanR, 5, #180 of 1967 🔗

I declined.

175584 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to alw, 5, #181 of 1967 🔗

Reminding me of the old joke about the Latin Mistress who, when asked to conjugate, declined!

175600 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to AidanR, 13, #182 of 1967 🔗

There is no such thing as implicit consent under GDPR. It is mandated to explicitly opt-in.

175661 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Cicatriz, 2, #183 of 1967 🔗

Hey, you know that and I know that… who you gonna call?

175725 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to AidanR, 4, #184 of 1967 🔗

So if you get any other messages from the government, then they must have ignored your refusal of consent and broken GDPR rules by retaining your mobile number? So you can sue them?

175731 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Carrie, 3, #185 of 1967 🔗

I haven’t declined. Of all the things the government has done, this is the one I’m least concerned about. I don’t want to give them an excuse to not tell me about stuff I need to know, and I like 90% of the way the NHS now uses text messaging, having had extensive exposure to the NHS over the last 2 years.

What I did do was opt out of them putting my medical records on the central electronic system that gets its data sold to research companies and Google.

After all, Google already knows my phone number and where I live.

176291 ▶▶▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to AidanR, 1, #186 of 1967 🔗

Just wait. I live in a local mockdown area and I get frequent propaganda texts from the NHS reminding me of the danger and requesting I get tested.

176288 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to AidanR, 4, #187 of 1967 🔗

They’ve definitely had push back from me! I’ve emailed data_protection@dhsc.gov.uk and enquiries@nhsdigital.nhs.uk to ask them to delete the details they’ve been given by my GP without my permission. I encourage anyone who’s had emails/texts to do the same.
I’ve got an ongoing complaint with the Surgery about why they shared my details without my consent but no response so far so tempted to go to the ICO…

175529 steve, replying to steve, 9, #188 of 1967 🔗

They Peaked at 29% occupancy

National Audit Office Report Page 9

“ Between 17 March and 12 April, the number of available beds increased from 12,600 to 53,700, while the proportion of these beds occupied
by a COVID-19 patient peaked at 29%. The proportion of critical care beds occupied by COVID-19 patients in England was highest between 5 April and
14 April, at 50% or just over. The NHS additionally increased capacity through
a deal to access up to 8,000 beds in independent hospitals, and by establishing temporary Nightingale hospitals, although use of these was limited up to mid-May“


175556 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to steve, 5, #189 of 1967 🔗

Here they commandeered a local private hospital for 6 months but never used it. Built a Nightingale but never used it.
Converted 2 distinct areas of hospital to ICU but only used one.
Closed down Oncology but they did nothing with that space at all.

176314 ▶▶▶ hat man, replying to karenovirus, #190 of 1967 🔗

We need to be careful in making this argument. The lockdown zealot response I’ve heard is that there was a finite number of ICU nurses, and they were overwhelmed, even though more beds remained available. Apparently 6 nurses were supposed to be required per ICU patient. Not sure if this has been refuted, but it would be good to know one way or the other.

177311 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to hat man, #191 of 1967 🔗

Staff were rapidly retrained or recalled then sat around playing ludo.

176098 ▶▶ djaustin, replying to steve, 1, #192 of 1967 🔗

What proportion of critical care beds occupied by COVID19 patients would you consider overwhelmed? Other patients require critical care too and it is a zero sum game. Critical care bed occupancy is always very high.

176157 ▶▶▶ Bob, replying to djaustin, 4, #193 of 1967 🔗

“Critical care bed occupancy is always very high.“

Not during lock down it wasn’t. That’s the point of the report. They were basically empty. No one else was allowed in.
All care homes people were not allowed into the hospitals and anyone over 70 was basically allowed to die in their bedrooms with no access to medical care.

Someone in Manchester was arrested and prosecuted for turning up at the hospital and filming that they were empty and showing up the farce for what it is

175531 Caroline Watson, replying to Caroline Watson, 15, #194 of 1967 🔗

Many of the symptoms of ‘Long Covid’ could also be attributed to isolation, indoor urban living, depression and PTSD caused by government policies. They also seem to be particularly apparent in the sort of women who also ‘suffer’ from ‘ME’, ‘fibromyalgia’ and various other ‘syndromes’, mainly designated by strings of initials. They are the sort of women who, despite calling themselves feminists, think that if a man can’t or won’t support them to have a ridiculous number of children, for them to over protect and make as neurotic as themselves, the State should do it instead.

I think hard work, fresh air, exercise and the words, ‘it’s not actually about you’, would be the cure for most of them and would cost nothing.

175555 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Caroline Watson, -1, #195 of 1967 🔗

It’s bizarre and indicative that it’s risky for even a woman to make this criticism today. Someone will be along momentarily to accuse you of internalised misogyny.

Tangentially, I’m expecting Liverpool to be an absolute hotbed of long Covid.

175813 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to AidanR, 1, #196 of 1967 🔗

Racissssst !

176471 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to AidanR, 1, #197 of 1967 🔗

I wouldn’t say “internalised misogyny” – I had to search for the term. But the attacks on people suffering from psychological manipulation by the government and media really are not helpful. I don’t expect you or Caroline to stop, I’m just saying they’re not helpful.

176808 ▶▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to AidanR, 1, #198 of 1967 🔗

My feminism has always been about no rights without responsibilities. I have never apologised for that. If someone expects to be treated as a fully fledged adult, they have to behave like one, which means earning a living and taking responsibility for their own children.
However, I think it definitely needs to be recognised that much of ‘Long Covid’ is psychological and a result of living in this depressing, dystopian Limbo, and that many of us who probably haven’t had the virus are experiencing similar symptoms, particularly the brain fog and joint pain.

175560 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Caroline Watson, 14, #199 of 1967 🔗

One third of CFS/ME cases are vaccine injury. The injury is to the nervous system and the immune system.

This was discovered by Prof,. Gherardi and Authier in research between 1998 and 2016, at Creteuil Hospital Paris.

The toxic agent is the aluminium adjuvant which travels to the brain inside macrophages (white blood cells) and causes brain inflammation.

The aluminium adjuvant at the vaccine injection site upregulates the immune system abnormally.so that it cannot mount a normal response to infection.

This research was closed down in 2016, despite the gravity of the findings and against the protests of the researchers.

The assumption that women with this condition are somatising demonstrates the triumph of the propaganda campaign of the last twenty years, mounted on behalf of the vaccine companies and enthusiastically promoted in the press.,

175572 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Kate, 4, #200 of 1967 🔗

Electron micrographs of these white cells show the toxic aluminium sitting inside, and further research revealed them travelling into the brain.

Aluminium is neurotoxic, when tap water was used to clean blood in kidney dialysis patients, they died from neuropathy.

175737 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Kate, #201 of 1967 🔗

I’ve read that chlorella can help detox heavy metals, though how much it can do I am not sure…

175806 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Carrie, 1, #202 of 1967 🔗

Boraz, silica, there are several detoxing agents around, I am not an expert.

176451 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to JohnB, 1, #203 of 1967 🔗

The best water for detoxing is Fiji Water (highest silica content) but very expensive. The second best is Volvic. Constant consumption of these waters leaches aluminium out of the brain and helps considerably with protection against Alzheimer’s Disease.

176954 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to RichardJames, #204 of 1967 🔗

Mwah ha ha ha ! That’s why I am so sane – always Volvic. 🙂

175586 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Kate, 13, #205 of 1967 🔗

Most people on this site are now experiencing the power of propaganda, but not focused against a small group of disabled people, but the entire population.

The reason I knew covid was shit from the start is because I have seen how propaganda was used against people with ME and also Gulf War syndrome, and I can spot the telltale signs.

175636 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Kate, 3, #206 of 1967 🔗


Here is a paper from Gherardi and Authier from 2009 (so this research is not new.)

Strange how no-one has heard of it, no action has ever been taken to protect the population, and how this vital research has been stopped.

Just hope you never get injected with this poison.

175730 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Kate, 1, #207 of 1967 🔗

Interesting… where do the other 2/3 of CFS cases come from? I’m curious as I had a friend from university who developed it in her 30s, after turning vegetarian… She’s been unhealthy ever since.

175803 ▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Carrie, 6, #208 of 1967 🔗

There has never been any biomedical research into CFS/ME as such.
Once it became a common illness in young adults and children in the eighties and early nineties, effort was entirely focused on discrediting and stigmatising this group.

The Gherardi research only began because of chance findings, and the connection with CFS?ME came later. Once the researchers made public the links between vaccination and disease, the research was terminated.

The vital thing to take from this is:-
If you become vaccine injured, you will not be able to prove it because the research funding that might allow medics to reveal a link will never be released by the government, as they are puppets of industry.

Do not take the vaccine for coronavirus.

175812 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Kate, 1, #209 of 1967 🔗

So, Carrie, if your friend has been ill for years, no-one can tell why, because no funding is given to look for real medical causes.

So no-one is to blame, and no-one can claim damages.

176113 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 2, #210 of 1967 🔗

When we were researching it in the very early days, there seemed to be a link with polio epidemics, and it was refered to as non-paralytic polio.

Judy Mikovits recently claimed to have linked it to a retrovirus (so not polio then).

Whichever, the evidence points to it being viral, which wouldn’t preclude vaccination.

176081 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Kate, 6, #211 of 1967 🔗

My ME symptoms were obviously central nervous system damage, besides the mitochondrial disfunction.

The evil Simon Wessely who, desperate to have psychology accepted as a “real” science, spent a lot of energy “proving” that ME was psychosomatic and did great harm with his CBT nonsense.

175567 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Caroline Watson, 2, #212 of 1967 🔗

There will undoubtedly be genuine cases of long term problems but the government have deliberately made diagnosis open ended because high numbers support their agenda.

176117 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to karenovirus, 2, #213 of 1967 🔗

Yes. It’s definitely a new part of the fearmongering campaign.

“I don’t know anyone who’s been ill with covid, do you?”
“No but what about this long covid …….?!”

175604 ▶▶ Bailie, replying to Caroline Watson, 13, #214 of 1967 🔗

I have suffered from CF/fibromyalgia for 20 years probably due to the Larium I took during the time I had the energy to travel/exercise. I am not a “type of woman”. I get enough of this all in your mind crap from people who have no idea of the frustration of these conditions in my daily life, so I don’t need to be subjected to it here where I come for like minded sceptics. You are insensitive and insulting.

175622 ▶▶▶ Bailie, replying to Bailie, #215 of 1967 🔗

And dispute my pseudonym I am female.

175630 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Bailie, #216 of 1967 🔗

Of that you left us in no doubt 🤣 🤣 🤣

175634 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bailie, replying to AidanR, 1, #217 of 1967 🔗


175816 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Bailie, #218 of 1967 🔗

The original post does strongly imply that you are a woman.

175988 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bailie, replying to John P, 5, #219 of 1967 🔗

It probably does but my last few postings seem to take it I was male so I thought I would clarify. It’s actually my dog’s name. First thing this morning I saw the photo/ virtue screeching of a worker on the train taken by some Pratt and plastered over the daily mail, and then come onto this site to get some same input only to be pilloried for being a fibro victim. So I’m just a tad touchy.

175990 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bailie, replying to Bailie, 1, #220 of 1967 🔗


176486 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Bailie, 3, #221 of 1967 🔗

If it’s any consolation, I get discouraged by the posturing about how “a real sceptic doesn’t use a mask exemption card.” Tiresome and sets me off when it happens, so you’re annoyance is completely understandable in my book.

175811 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Bailie, 3, #222 of 1967 🔗

Try not to take it personally.

My mother who is 78 also complains about fibromyalgia.

176480 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Bailie, 3, #223 of 1967 🔗

Ah, thank you for being direct. As a woman in her 60s, I put up with decades of doctors telling me “it’s all in your head” and I didn’t suffer from CF or anything similar. Just added to my distrust of the medical profession.

175833 ▶▶ John P, replying to Caroline Watson, 7, #224 of 1967 🔗

It’s probably not a good idea not to conflate “long covid” with other conditions that people complain about.

My mother has fibromyalgia and it causes her considerable discomfort. She is quite a feisty woman, but I wouldn’t say she is a feminist. Mother of three.

176059 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Caroline Watson, 6, #225 of 1967 🔗

I’ve had ME since the 1980s.
You might be right about some of the long covid people but some will genuinely have postviral syndrome. Please don’t start the smug Yuppie Flu accusations again because if you have the real thing, it’s no joke!

176107 ▶▶ djaustin, replying to Caroline Watson, 6, #226 of 1967 🔗

Thanks. I went from cycling 400 km a week and being a national level competitive athlete to not having ridden a bike for six months. It’s not for want of fresh air.

176466 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Caroline Watson, 2, #227 of 1967 🔗

I agree with your first sentence. I don’t believe long covid is anything other than the same syndrome that some people who get viruses suffer. The second seems a bit odd, especially since I know men who suffer from the same “strings of initials”. Not that it matters, but I am a woman, a feminist, have no children, and avoid children and their parents like the plague (sic).

175532 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 9, #228 of 1967 🔗

The discarded muzzles are becoming a health problem, ways of disposal are needed. If you put your used muzzle on a wet sponge in the window, you can grow cress on it.

175539 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Dan Clarke, 23, #229 of 1967 🔗

Funny how people who are concerned about the environment are silent on this. As they have been consistently silent about littering in the past.

Yes, David Attenborough I’m looking at you.

175548 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Bart Simpson, 14, #230 of 1967 🔗

We should campaign for a dedicated landfill site for muzzles, as if they work as well as we are told, they’ve got to be a bio hazard.

175554 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Dan Clarke, 8, #231 of 1967 🔗

I’m amazed that no bio hazard bins have been provided. Its not just those single use muzzles that I’ve seen discarded but even cloth ones.

175746 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #232 of 1967 🔗

I get that, but wouldn’t biohazard bins just ramp up the fear even more?

176112 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Carrie, 5, #233 of 1967 🔗

A pile was burned by dancing Hassidim in NY, good to see.

176473 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, 1, #234 of 1967 🔗

I think they know this is all bollocks hence why there’s none of the bio hazard bins

175577 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Bart Simpson, 11, #235 of 1967 🔗

Ah yes, David Attenborough, that well-known National Treason.

175629 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to IanE, 7, #236 of 1967 🔗

Agree, can’t stand the man

175891 ▶▶▶▶ ChrisDinBristol, replying to IanE, 6, #237 of 1967 🔗

Agreed also – cuddly National Treasure or lying misanthropic b*st*rd? I know which I’d choose – Paul Homewood has had some splendid takedowns of Attenbollox’s fibs on notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com . . . Hiighly recommended.

175599 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #238 of 1967 🔗

The grandson was on R4 yesterday toadying to Royalty.

175618 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to karenovirus, 6, #239 of 1967 🔗

And Royalty toadying to Attenborough on ITV a few days ago.

175820 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #240 of 1967 🔗

The demo in Berlin tomorrow is a Silent March.
For it to be able to go ahead, participants need to wear a face covering. At the end, they are supposed to put them into large bins, to show how much rubbish gets generated.

176493 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Silke David, #241 of 1967 🔗

That’s a good idea, actually. Silence is quite a strong statement.

175880 ▶▶▶ ChrisDinBristol, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #242 of 1967 🔗

Yup, perfectly happy to slaughter over 1/2 million sharks for the new (useless and dangerous) vaccine . . .

175929 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #243 of 1967 🔗

He has been very quiet in this period .

175574 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Dan Clarke, 7, #244 of 1967 🔗

No use – I am exempt to this insanity, and hence do not have any masks/muzzles!

175594 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Dan Clarke, 6, #245 of 1967 🔗

” I’ve got several silk masks to wear around the flat but as I don’t want them soiled by car emissions I only wear a paper one when I go out. Since it’s hardly been used I leave it on a bench for a homeless”

Daily Mash.

175819 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to karenovirus, 1, #246 of 1967 🔗

Irony, one suspects. 🙂

(Heh, originally thought this was from the Mail.)

175533 Biker, replying to Biker, 6, #247 of 1967 🔗

it’s all over now baby blue

Tyranny is here to stay

They are destroying the past and you’ll have to live in their dystopian nightmare forever

Happy days eh?

175550 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Biker, 6, #248 of 1967 🔗

There’s a very good book out there called ‘Enjoy The Decline’.

It’s admittedly somewhat nihilistic, but it’s more an appeal to the serenity prayer.

The thrust of the tome is that you should make yourself comfortable, pour a nice drink and enjoy the spectacle of the sheeple stampeding over the cliff in pursuit of ephemera, propaganda and fools gold.

175575 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Biker, 5, #249 of 1967 🔗

No it’s not. There will be way too much resistance. People are slowly waking up – it will become an avalanche.

175610 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Lili, 6, #250 of 1967 🔗

I’m afraid I don’t agree at all. Oh sure there’ll be grumbling, but what we ought to be seeing is an uprising on the scale of the miners’ strikes or the poll tax riots, and we won’t get it. I’d bet proper money on that.

176147 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to AidanR, 2, #251 of 1967 🔗

The miners and the polltax rioters hadn’t been expertly propagandised and brainwashed to the extent of losing their minds.

176498 ▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #252 of 1967 🔗

Perhaps, but the polltax rioters hadn’t all just lost their jobs and probably their homes.

176544 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to ConstantBees, #253 of 1967 🔗

True. People do have less oomph when demoralised and skint.

175653 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Biker, 5, #254 of 1967 🔗

Hi biker,

Do you think they are deliberately destroying the past by destroying our culture?

I have wondered why they are focusing on the arts so much.

I have always thought that this was an economic reset, and the destruction of the economy was to recapitalise the banks, so I could not understand why they also focused on orchestras, museums, etc.

175664 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Kate, 3, #255 of 1967 🔗

I think that’s one thread of a multi-pronged assault, yes.

175763 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Kate, 2, #256 of 1967 🔗

Probably not a reset at all. Destroying the economy to capitalise the banks is a logical fallacy. No economy, no banks, just barter subsistence.

175788 ▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to Kate, 3, #257 of 1967 🔗

The destruction of our culture has been going on for a very long time. I recalled recently a comment made by a colleague some 20 years ago now, part way through the Labour gov of Tony Blair, “The progressives and the globalists won’t be happy until we are all brown”. With subsequent mass, uncontrolled immigration, diversity and inclusion and other woke memes accelerating and gaining prominence I can’t but help think that he was right.

176718 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to The Filthy Engineer, #258 of 1967 🔗

It’s all part of the long march through the institutions….They’re nearly finished.

176048 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Kate, 7, #259 of 1967 🔗

The arts are gone. I’ve been playing and putting on gigs and clubs featuring a wide range of music and artists and never once had a penny from the arts council or whatever bullshit they call themselves. I’ve made money lost, money and broke even. I do it because i create stuff, my friends create stuff and other people create stuff and want an opportunity to play it live or display their art. They hate people like me but think nothing of giving millions to arsewipes who put on a play about clog dancing during the miners strike or some other shit that no one is interested in. They spend millions on so called art while real artists who do it all for the need to do it get nothing. Now i don’t want anything from them but i don’t want others thinking they are getting art because it’s on at a publicly funded event. It’s a disgrace. They shut down folk like me because we don’t need them and show back to them their shitty culture. Artists are always first to be censored.

176165 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Biker, 3, #260 of 1967 🔗

That’s because true artists reflect what’s really going on and TPTB can’t afford that right now.

176259 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Biker, 4, #261 of 1967 🔗

A while back Biker you listed some of the things we were prevented from doing, the nice things that made life worth living for people if not yourself.
Bell ringing, having a kick about down the park, house party, a whist drive, going Scouts, making and consuming live music in all its forms, getting pissed with friends and meeting new ones, all now forbidden.
Basically all we are permitted to do now is go to work, indeed we beg to be allowed to.

The Third Reich in the depths of its depravity killed off the old, the young and the weak before allowing the remainder to work themselves to death.
We are obviously not in that league but the thinking behind it is the same.

176150 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Kate, 1, #262 of 1967 🔗

Easy targets.

175796 ▶▶ John P, replying to Biker, 5, #263 of 1967 🔗

Now there’s a cheery thought for a chilly autumn morning.

Life’s what you make it, Biker. Even amidst the clownshow that we are currently being subjected to.

We all have our bad days, I certainly do, but fatalistic language like this doesn’t really aid the anti lockdown cause.

Roll over and let Boris tickle your tummy if you want, Biker. Give in if you want to. That’s your choice. I can’t stop you.

There’s probably never been a time nor will there even be a time when freedom from tyranny is guaranteed.

It is important always to stand up for freedom and not become a victim.

176053 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to John P, 5, #264 of 1967 🔗

If you think i’m giving in then you just don’t have got a clue. Sounds to me everything you types is how you feel. I’ve been here since day one saying i won’t do anything they say and i haven’t, never will. I will die with my boots on, don’t you worry about that

175897 ▶▶ ChrisDinBristol, replying to Biker, 6, #265 of 1967 🔗

In the long run, tyranny has always failed. The short run, however, is rarely anything other than a nightmare. It seems it is our fate to live the nightmare, but keep sowing the seeds and one day they will reap the whirlwind. Keep yer grizzled chin up, mate, we’re still here!

175538 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #266 of 1967 🔗
175545 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #267 of 1967 🔗

Two things.

1) Resistance is forming.
2) It’s already being infiltrated by the authorities.

175590 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #268 of 1967 🔗

That we all are being monitored on this site too.

175658 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Kate, 1, #269 of 1967 🔗

Has anyone else noticed their phone or computer behaving oddly since coming onto this site?

175757 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Kate, 3, #270 of 1967 🔗


175758 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Kate, 5, #271 of 1967 🔗

Nope. There’s nothing wrong with this site (well, the commenting system is a bit shit, but that’s WordPress for you).

Of course, Toby could always ask the guys who host the site (or a 3rd party) to run a security audit on it, but it would almost certainly confirm my view.

Phones and PCs change behaviour all the time and for a million different reasons, which cannot possibly be reasonably connected back to visiting here.

175768 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to AidanR, 1, #272 of 1967 🔗

I totally agree!

175765 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Kate, #273 of 1967 🔗

Lockdown sceptics need always to be able to point to evidence.

Have you any evidence for this, or are you just speculating?

175840 ▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to John P, 1, #274 of 1967 🔗

My phone and computer have been behaving oddly, yes.

As far as the computer goes, it could just be the latest bloody update from Microsoft.

175923 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Kate, #275 of 1967 🔗

Mine have been working perfectly. 🙂

However as they monitor everyone’s every word, the question is absurd.

176100 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Kate, #276 of 1967 🔗

try CCleaner

175921 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Kate, 3, #277 of 1967 🔗

It would shameful not to be on their lists. 🙂

175616 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Tom Blackburn, #278 of 1967 🔗

They stole that plotline from Spooks.

175642 ▶▶ James Bertram, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #279 of 1967 🔗

at end of article:
Last Friday, the state’s Supreme Court ruled that Mrs Whitmer did not have the legal authority to issue emergency executive orders and that that responsibility belonged to the state’s legislature.
Following the ruling, the attorney who argued the case before the top court advised citizens to “burn your masks”, which health officials say are necessary to prevent the spread of Covid-19.

175919 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tom Blackburn, -1, #280 of 1967 🔗

Err, heil Whitmer. Coming soon to a city near us ?

Molotov cocktails and a taser ? When these dudes have access to excellent firearms ? Yeah right.

176105 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to JohnB, 1, #281 of 1967 🔗

Just say no to Botox, the whole top of her head does not move, scary, that and the bright white teeth.

176725 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Tom Blackburn, #282 of 1967 🔗

Don’t post your plans on social media. Use snail mail.

175541 leggy, replying to leggy, 5, #283 of 1967 🔗

I suspect like a lot of people here, I’ve known something was up for a long time. Certainly since I saw videos of people falling dead in the street in China. Fully confirmed when I noticed that the BBC were putting horror film score over their “news” pieces.

So for me, I’ve not needed to have my mind changed. However, for all those people who have been conned by the narrative, it’s surely going to be a big leap to admit it to themselves. It’s hard to change someone’s world view and as I see it, that’s largely where our battle lies. I hate to quote a Bush, but it is a hearts and minds exercise.

So I guess my question is, who here has changed their tack on this? If you have, what was the thing that made you see clearly, brought lucidity? The psychology here is incredibly important as we all know.

175552 ▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to leggy, 9, #284 of 1967 🔗

I initially thought there might be some new virus that could be something to be concerned about (even though a source told me in January that HCQ was an effective treatment). As soon as Boris put the lockdown in place in March I knew there had to be another agenda. The so called remedy was obviously going to be orders of magnitude worse than the “disease”. The greatest mistake in history, as someone said.

175723 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to charleyfarley, 4, #285 of 1967 🔗

When as a key worker out and about seeing ambulances driving around with their sirens blazing. They may or may not have been on emergencies but there was no need to have their sirens on because I was the only other vehicle in sight.
They were doing it to create a climate of fear.

175561 ▶▶ Lili, replying to leggy, 14, #286 of 1967 🔗

Knew it was a psy-op from the start. I could barely believe so many people bought into the false narrative, but of course most people get their info from the MSM. I don’t watch TV. I DO read the papers online to keep up with what the ‘elite’ want us to know/do. I also red-pilled myself accidentally ten around 15 years ago, then went down the rabbit hole, so I’ve been mentally prepared for the biggie for a long time. I didn’t expect this to be their catalyst, though.

175624 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Lili, #287 of 1967 🔗

You know all that – I think we’re very much on the same page – and yet you still don’t think (per your response to Biker) that the game is lost and that there’ll be a meaningful and effective rebellion?


175932 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to AidanR, #288 of 1967 🔗

The cynic in me asks “Shift change ?”. 🙂

176008 ▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to JohnB, #289 of 1967 🔗

Could be 🙂

177437 ▶▶▶▶ Lili, replying to AidanR, #290 of 1967 🔗

Sounds like you’ve already given up. I will continue to fight this with every breath. I would feel too much shame just caving in and accepting what they want. I’m puzzled at your determination to sow despondency here.

176279 ▶▶▶ Templeton, replying to Lili, #291 of 1967 🔗


175739 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to leggy, 2, #292 of 1967 🔗

I heard of event 201 just after it happened and I knew The Corona Project was being launched and it was a scam and being used as The Global Reset,. However back then I thought it wouldn’t gain too much traction and that the people would see clearly it was a scam.. I am still shocked at how well the propaganda has worked.

I was also aware of how an impending global fascist dictatorship was being planned but I wondered how they would actually bring it about. Again I was shocked that they actually went for a fake global pandemic. So obvious, I thought they would never actually TRY it.

175751 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Two-Six, -1, #293 of 1967 🔗

Johnson and his wretched “consocialist” cabal may find these ideas attractive, but I do not believe that he is under orders.

This rhetoric is paranoia. I find this narrative that you are promoting quite creepy.

175928 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to John P, 1, #294 of 1967 🔗

It is alarming and frightening, JP. However it is where we are.

175936 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to JohnB, 1, #295 of 1967 🔗

Okay, I understand the concerns, but my view is that Johnson and his cabinet are in charge.

There are undoubtedly suspect figures such as Gates who have some influence. It is impossible to say exactly how much influence they have though.

And, at the end of the day, Johnson (unfortunately) is still in charge of things here. In the UK the buck still stops with the British government.

175942 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to John P, 1, #296 of 1967 🔗

Yes,the buck stops with them.

But the blame absolutely does not.

176132 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to John P, 3, #297 of 1967 🔗

Yes it’s creepy. This narrative has been creeping me out since 1998 at least. It’s real. It’s just that it’s too creepy for most people to take on board as it overturns just about everything you have been told about “how things are”.

Honestly john P, I am an expert in the world of “conspiracy stuff” I literally could study it at degree level and get a Phd. I have never believed a word I hear from official channels. It’s all lies. Johnson is not in control of anything.

175755 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to leggy, 2, #298 of 1967 🔗

Dodgy films of people ‘dropping dead’ but yet putting their arms out as they fell 😉

176088 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to leggy, 2, #299 of 1967 🔗

Spotted it early thanks to Bhakdi, Wodarg and Wittkowski. Put a little money into corona.film. Took me longer to spot what a complete tool the inverted pyramid of de Pfeffel is.

176204 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to leggy, 2, #300 of 1967 🔗

I was originally getting all my info from the beeb and the grad, so bought into the whole thing for the first couple of weeks of mockdown.
Then I started to see how totally OTT it all was. The ads on the beeb reminded me of the fake measles scare in the early 90s. It was also very obvious how irrational the advice was.

I was lucky to be pointed to Hector Drummond’s site – ironically by a grad commenter, who deserves a medal.
Also in the grad comments, I soon discovered OffG and from there arrived here.

I still skim the grad headlines because I find it’s the quickest way to see what’s in the official wind that day. There’s a very noticeable absence of room to comment there nowadays!

I got suckered into subscribing to the DT (NEVER thought I’d ever say that!) just so I can follow Toby’s links. The comments there are becoming very encouraging and the fact that the trolls are obviously sent there in force shows that the truth is sneaking out.

BTL here though has been the most valuable source of info and I’m very grateful for this resource and for everyone’s input.

PS My tv licence expired at the end of May and, needless to say, I didn’t renew!

176699 ▶▶▶ Carlo, replying to Cheezilla, #301 of 1967 🔗

The grad??

176780 ▶▶▶▶ stevie119, replying to Carlo, #302 of 1967 🔗

The guardian,

176285 ▶▶ Julian, replying to leggy, 2, #303 of 1967 🔗

I was worried to start with. I have had fairly severe hypochondriac episodes and some physical health issues that may make me vulnerable, and I worry a lot about death. All of this pushed to me try and find out more about the virus, and the more I looked into it the more I started to realise it was a huge overreaction.

175542 charleyfarley, replying to charleyfarley, 4, #304 of 1967 🔗

When will those making dire predictions about a “second wave” lose their jobs and reputations when those predictions are shown to be false? Witty for one must be drinking in the last chance saloon.

(Rhetorical question, obvs.)

176309 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to charleyfarley, #305 of 1967 🔗

🙁 it’s all just down to self-definition isn’t it. Numbers go up – it’s our fault for not following the rules closely enough. Numbers go down – it’s because we followed their rules. Numbers not showing what you want – just pick some new numbers!

175546 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 10, #306 of 1967 🔗

In some countries healthcare workers are permitted to return to work if testing positive above 35 cycles of a PCR test.


In March 2020 NHS England set the covid 19 PCR positive test cycle threshold at 40 so even a Mango Milkshake would test positive. The rest is history, still being made but not in a good way….

Page 8: https://www.england.nhs.uk/coronavirus/wp-content/uploads/sites/52/2020/03/guidance-and-sop-covid-19-virus-testing-in-nhs-laboratories-v1.pdf

We are, again, locking down millions of people, who, elsewhere would be allowed, quite correctly, to work, unmasked, in hospitals

This is not a conspiracy, it is the incompetence of ‘big state’ so brilliantly skewered by the film ‘Chernobyl’

Britain, today, is a democratic socialist ‘big state’ country by any measure that you wish to use, and now we are paying the price for that………

175551 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Tim Bidie, 3, #307 of 1967 🔗

Johnson is on record moaning about Big State many times

175553 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #308 of 1967 🔗

The proof of the pudding……..

175568 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #309 of 1967 🔗

And, if anyone is in a Big State, it is him (though he claims to have lost 26 pounds – but how many has he put on again?)!

176221 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Dan Clarke, #310 of 1967 🔗

The b*stard doth protest too much, methinks.

175944 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #311 of 1967 🔗

Thanks for that official document.

This official guidance appears to state (on Page 21) that 45 cycles are undertaken.

It also says that a positive result at or above 40 cycles , requires the following:-

“Results where: •the Ct value is ≥40 and/or•there is an abnormal assay curve and/or•the clinical context makes the positive result highly unexpected should be considered interim or held until reviewed by a laboratory clinician. Laboratories will undertake the following actions:•defer telephoning the uncertain result to the clinician looking after the patient (or telephoning it with the clear caveat of uncertainty)•re-extract the original sample and repeat the PCR in the original and new extract in duplicate•perform testing on a further respiratory sample (or samples) from the same patient•confirmwith an alternative, equivalent sensitivity assay locally or,where none is available, forward the sample to Colindale•regularlyreview theperformance of reagents, particularly control materials.The actions taken should be expedited to minimise the delay in obtaining a definitive result for the patient. Only confirmed results are expected to be notified to public health and other stakeholders.”

My bolding.

So that means only a positive at 35 or below should be automatically considered a positive. Anything at 40 or above must be followed by the double checks (as detailed above) before public health is notified.

Do we think they are actually doing this, as the guidance requires?
Is this still the current guidance?

176284 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Kevin 2, 1, #312 of 1967 🔗

Page 21 is for a non commercial test

Page 8 is for a commercially available test kit and quite clearly states a 40 cycle threshold

‘Where Ct values are below an agreed value (based on analysis of proficiency testing performance and other local testing data) with satisfactory quality control parameters, including internal control performance, the result is considered valid and should be telephoned and a report issued as a final result. Any such positive result will be recorded as ‘confirmed’ for public health reporting purposes and will be notifiable under recent legislation. Results where: • the Ct value is ≥ 40 and/or • there is an abnormal assay curve and/or • the clinical context makes the positive result highly unexpected should be considered interim or held until reviewed by a laboratory clinician.’

176296 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Kevin 2, 3, #313 of 1967 🔗

Thank you Tim and Kevin.

I’ve cobbled bits together from your posts and used them for a letter to my MP.

He’s very good at answering quickly, so we’ll see what sort of response I get.
Probably “I don’t know, would you like me to ask on your behalf? Replies take up to 8 weeks ….”

Still, hopefully it will make him think and question the narrative a tiny bit.

176312 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #314 of 1967 🔗

I wonder how many cycles it takes in order to be released from house arrest in Italy?!

176729 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Tim Bidie, #315 of 1967 🔗

Chernobyl should be compulsory viewing, under the auspices of “be careful what you wish for.”

175557 Iansn, replying to Iansn, 5, #316 of 1967 🔗

from the telegraph. ‘Professor Jane Eddleston, an intensive care consultant at Manchester Royal Infirmary, said Covid patients coming into hospitals rose from eight to 32 per day in the last five weeks and they occupy 30 per cent of critical care beds.
“This has translated through to a rise in admissions to critical care – we’ve gone from about three admissions a day at the beginning of September up to where we are now, which is just short of seven admissions a day,” she said.’ What is just short of 7? 6? Always twisting the figures for the worst possible meaning

175576 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Iansn, 2, #317 of 1967 🔗

Averaging the numbers. Higher than 6, lower than 7.

175580 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Iansn, 4, #318 of 1967 🔗

I don’t believe that are covid patients imo they are patients where they have had a + test. Crap.

175608 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Iansn, 7, #319 of 1967 🔗

At least the DM yesterday also reported alongside that, that “more than 150 trusts are now seeing one or no patients per day”, and reported that:

A vast majority of NHS trusts – 153 out of 206 – admitted an average of one or no patients per day during that period, showing that a small number of hospitals are making up almost all of the rise in patients…… The most recent point shows that 1.82 per cent of beds are taken up with people by coronavirus”

How close to the edge is the NHS? Hospitals in Blackpool are admitting up to 60% as many Covid-19 patients as they were in the spring… but more than 150 trusts are now seeing one or no patients per day

175981 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Mark, 1, #320 of 1967 🔗

An average of one or no patients is not really an average..
It might mean 0.1 of a patient for example.

One suspects that in the ‘hotspots,’ door-to-door testing is taking place, and that anyone with the slightest symptom is advised to report to hospital. And that even an outpatient hospital attendance is perhaps then recorded as a hospital admission.
Obviously, I don’t know this to be the case, but it sets me wondering…

176014 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Kevin 2, #321 of 1967 🔗

An average of one or no patients is not really an average ..”

I suspect they just didn’t want to be accused of perpetrating the stylistic offence of referring to a fraction of a person.

176044 ▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Mark, 1, #322 of 1967 🔗

Assuming they mean the average is for an individual trust over a period of days that means some have an average of 0 per day others an average of 1. The question is how do you get an average of 0? Do they have negative patients some days or are they just trying to avoid saying they haven’t had any patients for ages?

176302 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Kevin 2, #323 of 1967 🔗

My ex- DiL has had flu symptoms all week. Just got positive covid test result back. Her whole family is locked down in a small house now, poor things.

176299 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark, #324 of 1967 🔗

Great. Some balance creeping into the MSM at last!

175620 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Iansn, 4, #325 of 1967 🔗

Now that all admissions are routinely ‘tested’ for covid. All admissions e.g. pneumonia, COPD, and flu complications are now covid admissions. In fact, as many as they can get away with.

175683 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to chaos, 6, #326 of 1967 🔗

and broken legs, diy accidents , ingrowing toenail ops. anything.
So it is not just respiratory admissions. It is any admission who has shown as positive on the routine and compulsory covid test on admission is classed as a covid admission

175767 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to chaos, 2, #327 of 1967 🔗

….to build up their DNA database of the entire population, which is worth BILLIONS when sold..

176305 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to chaos, #328 of 1967 🔗

All at 45 cycles?!

175743 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Iansn, #329 of 1967 🔗

3/8 = almost half go critical care
6/32 = less than one fifth.

175837 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Iansn, 1, #330 of 1967 🔗

I saw sth on German media that 60.3 people tested positive. 0.3??

176307 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Silke David, #331 of 1967 🔗

Grant Shapps?

176298 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Iansn, #332 of 1967 🔗

How long do they stay? How many are discharged each day?
Meaningless scaremongering!

175587 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to alw, 4, #334 of 1967 🔗

It’s the OffGuardian article from a couple of days. Should be headline news everywhere.

175589 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to alw, 4, #335 of 1967 🔗

Trumpy should find that a handy weapon against twitter

175593 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to alw, 3, #336 of 1967 🔗

And that’s even with exagerrated attributions.

175697 ▶▶ leggy, replying to alw, 3, #337 of 1967 🔗

Skewered themselves really – if you create a false casedemic, naturally that then leads to a very low IFR. Even if you do also pretend that lots of people are dying from covid when it’s really another cause of death.

175749 ▶▶ James Bertram, replying to alw, 1, #338 of 1967 🔗

Thank you.
Have sent this to my useless Guildford MP with the question: ‘Why are you not questioning the government on this?’

175573 redbirdpete, replying to redbirdpete, 33, #339 of 1967 🔗

Should we not be emphasising Hancock’s stated preference for more cancer deaths as long as we ‘beat’ covid? And Sunak’s apalling attack on the whole arts and entertainment sector?

On the latter, from a friend Cath Carter on Facebook – she is a professional musician in Liverpool. :

So Rishi Sunak, our filthy rich, stuck up, horrible, arrogant piece of sh*t chancellor, who inherited his own personal fortune by marrying a billionaire, has today announced that everyone in not just the music industry, but all things arts and culture related, should now take up an ‘opportunity’ to retrain for another career because everything in the arts is not a viable industry for the future….so the tens of thousands of people who have worked in the arts all of their lives, who simply cannot work at the moment because of Government policy, are gonna be made redundant….they’ve basically thrown everything that the country prides itself on, creativity, under the bus!!
This government is now taking music out of education too so where will the next generations of musicians come from to entertain and why would anyone want to now become a musician or actor etc if there’s no platform or career to pursue…..from classical to jazz to rock and pop culture, this government are quickly draining the morale from us all, they don’t care about anyone either…
Every venue, theatre, academy will disappear because they simply don’t care……every musician, actor, artist, will no longer have a gig, a show, a gallery, to show their art that they’ve dedicated their life to….the West End alone is one of the reasons why millions of tourists go to London alone each year, without this you can say farewell to tourism too which will also means hundreds of thousands out of work too……so Mr Sunak, what do these few million people ‘retrain’ to do???
The performing arts normally pumps over £100 billion into the UK economy per year. For the government to not support the sector, and please don’t insult us with the arts package he announced a couple months ago, that was total bollocks, this will be the sad legacy of all of this…….an end to this country being classed as Great!!!!!
I would like to invite you Mr Sunak, to come to Liverpool or wherever you want, and appear in front of an audience of people that represents every sector in our industry that has been devastated by your policies…look us all in the eye and have the bollocks to admit you don’t care!!!!
Liverpool was the European Capital of Culture just twelve years ago, since then we’ve become one of the most vibrant places in the world, music and culture is in our blood, it’s in our hearts, and while those two birds fly high above our great city, we will never let this or any other horrible, filthy rich Government, break us!!!!
F.U. Mr Sunak

175598 ▶▶ steph, replying to redbirdpete, 16, #340 of 1967 🔗

As an audience member, I don’t know when I’ll ever get to see a live show of any type again and I an heartbroken. My soul is in tatters and I know that the PTB have no heart or soul.

175672 ▶▶▶ Biggles, replying to steph, 5, #341 of 1967 🔗

Exactly, I was looking forward to seeing one of my favourite guitarists at The Sage in Gateshead in January. No chance of that now.

175635 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to redbirdpete, 5, #342 of 1967 🔗

Other than a few exceptions, I would counter that the job of MP is non-viable.

175752 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to kh1485, 3, #343 of 1967 🔗

Well, the majority of them do little it seems
This emergency has really shown how incapable of independent thought or research they are.

175772 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to redbirdpete, 2, #344 of 1967 🔗

Cath should post that to the Daily Telegraph.

175810 ▶▶ kf99, replying to redbirdpete, 7, #345 of 1967 🔗

The problem is the arts’ solution seems to be ‘give us money’ rather than ‘let us open as normal’. Hope they’re all signing the Barrington Declaration for example.

176039 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to redbirdpete, 11, #346 of 1967 🔗

As an ageing artist and musician , I am outraged and off the scale with anger at this.Our arts and cultural history is one of the main reasons the world comes here, what an absolute travesty this period is.What kind of a souless future do these monsters foresee for fucks sake!

176738 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to redbirdpete, 2, #347 of 1967 🔗

Its worrying that this could be curtains for the performing arts however they’re not helping themselves by demanding more money from the state. Why are they not campaigning to end lockdown, social distancing and masks? Van Morrison is doing all those why are they not joining forces with him?

176863 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #348 of 1967 🔗

Van has always had a deeply spiritual side, despite his curmudgeonly side.

175579 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 22, #349 of 1967 🔗

I’ve just had my notion that this is the most exciting thing to happen to most people in their entire lives confirmed. Just heard someone who has just zapped the app saying “ooh, exciting, it worked” Again, I despair …

175595 ▶▶ Lili, replying to kh1485, 5, #350 of 1967 🔗

Agree. I’ve overheard a gaggle of women in the twenties/thirties sounding like they’re in a real life version of Big Brother.

175613 ▶▶▶ DomW, replying to Lili, 6, #351 of 1967 🔗

Oh the irony!

175617 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Lili, 10, #352 of 1967 🔗

As I’ve said before, what is big brother.

A load of non-entities locked in a house being given instructions.

Stand here
Wear a mask
Scan this
Have a test
Save humanity

They revel in it, yah, so exciting if we pass the test we get fed!!

176040 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to stefarm, 1, #353 of 1967 🔗

Bazalgette’s illustrious forebear solved London’s sewage problem only for him to reverse the flow.

175611 ▶▶ Suzyv, replying to kh1485, 5, #354 of 1967 🔗

They may learn the hard way! Been out for a coffee and suddenly messaged to self isolate when they are perfectly well. And of course the person they sat near to may well also be perfectly well- false positive or aysmptomatic. Wonder how quickly they will then delete the app.

175648 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Suzyv, 3, #355 of 1967 🔗

Exactly. Don’t think he’s too happy now though, because the message he received said it had clocked him in until midnight!

175680 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to kh1485, 4, #356 of 1967 🔗

Do they realise this?? Quite possible they could be at home having left the premises hours before and have to self-isolate as somebody in the pub/venue much later has a false + so they will have to stay indoors for 2 weeks based on a dodgy test and not even have been anywhere near that false +person.

175692 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to stefarm, 1, #357 of 1967 🔗

Exactly. We try to alert people but he was so damned excited to do the zapping. I think most don’t appreciate the consequences.

175742 ▶▶▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to stefarm, 5, #358 of 1967 🔗

If they’re too fucking stupid to realise this then hell slap it into them. These idiots deserve everything they get.

176339 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, #359 of 1967 🔗

Agree but the fucking plebs are ruining my life

175947 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Suzyv, #360 of 1967 🔗

Nah, it’ll get them lockdownista status points !

175750 ▶▶ muzzle, replying to kh1485, 1, #361 of 1967 🔗

Was it Homer Simpson?

175818 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to muzzle, 2, #362 of 1967 🔗

No, but ‘Boris Johnson’ was in here on Wednesday! 😉

175827 ▶▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to kh1485, 2, #363 of 1967 🔗

Anyone know Neil Ferguson’s phone number?

175779 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to kh1485, 1, #364 of 1967 🔗

Any chance it was the phoney one ?

175582 Crazy Hoarse, replying to Crazy Hoarse, 13, #365 of 1967 🔗

I worked throughout the lockdown in an office with the boss only as my co-workers were too scared to share an office. I’ve maintained my stance from the very start that I will not wear a mask in any circumstances, I’ve made that abundantly clear. I thought that compulsory masks in offices would not fly because that would finally piss off too many people and piss off too many middle class people, if they force masks on office workers too then maybe that’s the tipping point

175775 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Crazy Hoarse, 7, #366 of 1967 🔗

No the sheeple will love it.

175583 Ewan Duffy, replying to Ewan Duffy, 9, #367 of 1967 🔗


The Catholic Church in Ireland has finally snapped – they are calling for religious services to resume.

I wonder what the effect of Messrs Martin telling Mr. Martin to reopen will have (note to readers – two of the four archbishops have the surname Martin as does the Taoiseach! AFAIK none of the three men are related to each other).

175597 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to Ewan Duffy, 7, #368 of 1967 🔗

It has to be pretty serious for the spineless wet blobs that now pass for bishops in Ireland to have had enough.

175655 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Recusant, 2, #369 of 1967 🔗

7 months without abusing kids, somethings gonna give!

175954 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Ewan Duffy, #370 of 1967 🔗

Or so they claim …

175592 Mark, 41, #371 of 1967 🔗

The Lancet piece, that basically confirms that a vaccine will not end the covid problem and “ interventions that have been in use since early in the pandemic, most crucially physical distancing and hand hygiene, must continue indefinitely “, tells us that one of the world’s major problems is the public health community itself. It’s attitudes are profoundly misguided, and dangerous when allowed to influence government policy and reinforced with the manipulative powers now at government’s disposal, via a compliant media and big tech establishment, and a gullible and viciously intolerant social media.

This is reinforced by Toby’s discussion of the poisonous Devi Sridhar’s background and attitudes.

I am reminded of a couple of recent references to this problem.

Professor Dingwall (the NERVTAG member who revealed that the government made up the 2m rule because they thought “people are too stupid to understand 1m”) writes:

we have found ourselves in the hands of a scientific and medical elite with limited understanding of humanity and its needs .”

That chimes with the opinion of the doctor who wrote a letter to the Telegraph recently, quoted recently here
“SIR – The vast majority of students who graduate from medical school pursue careers that use the tenets of clinical medicine. A correct diagnosis is typically dependent on a clinical examination using all of the doctor’s senses. In other words, clinical doctors are wholly immersed in a life of risk.

A tiny minority of medical graduates pursue a career in public-health medicine. That these scientists are intelligent is without doubt, but they inhabit a world of epidemiology and theoretical modelling, which keeps risk at a distance. No wonder, then, that when the Cabinet seeks their advice about minimising death, the message is to lock down and shield until the problem goes away.

As a general surgeon, I have not encountered a single Covid-positive patient for more than four months. In this same time, my clinical activity is running at 20% of what it normally would be and the expected numbers of referrals for patients with cancer has fallen dramatically. Yet I am now working in a region that has gone back into lockdown.

The Government is following the advice of a population of doctors who are risk-averse. It is possible to protect both the economy and the vulnerable, and to resume treating more lethal diseases. However, this requires the Government to seek and follow advice beyond the world of public-health medicine. It should listen to the Royal College of Surgeons and to oncologists.

David Scott-Coombes FRCS,
Llysworney, Glamorgan”

These people are doing immense damage and need to be removed from their positions of undue authority and influence, urgently.

175601 Major Panic, 3, #372 of 1967 🔗

For a more realistic comparison between the Unbalanced non-prediction and reality we need a graph of the data had daily number of tests remained the same as the day of the unbalanced & Twatty show. This would be easy to do by applying the % positives to total tests each day to the number of tests on the day of the non-prediction graph.
(I already know the PCR test is not fit for the current purpose)

175602 Basics, replying to Basics, 20, #373 of 1967 🔗

You see, as Will writes above, I have been totally right to smell a rat anytime Devi’s name is mentioned. So if it’s okay with all I will continue adding my personal thoughts and found evidences on the subject.

The good news is Devi does not do personally well with sustain critism. She is very fragile and has little development of tolerance of others. She has twitter bots pump praise and thanks into her twitter time line.

Yesterday I posted that in 2017 Devi and Chelsea Clinton set down five key principles for the then incoming Director General of WHO. She is a dangerous infivudual in my view. Who is she – who gives her thhese roles? More importantly what is her motivation to espouse such strange and weird ‘science’

In a profiling series of question for Edinburgh University (I believe) Devi answered that her perfect dinner party guests woukd be Steve Job, Bill Gates and one other I forget now.

She has tge hallmarks of a very dangerous useful idiot – her own ego manipulated to have her trot out required lines in any given direction. She is not a clever person, so who is calling her shots, who is instructing her? Is her husband her handler? Does she have hidden connectiins and communications with people, foundations, companies which are not declared?

Just look into her eyes – they lack.

175628 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Basics, 5, #374 of 1967 🔗

Does she have a husband? Her Wiki page suggests ‘clean skin’ – so little known about her family background, specifically her parents. It is not a plausible argument that someone so young, with a 2-year pre-clinical degree from a very minor US med school would get a Rhodes Scholarship. Nor does she have the intellect of a Rhodes Scholar – and I know a few.

175643 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #375 of 1967 🔗

Apparently yes and one child. Source for this is the Edinburgh University profile I mentioned. I’ll have a look to see if I can find it again.

In the mean time, this week tedros and devi were had a twitter exchange that as some one put it was vomit vomit vomit, sicophantic praise by both.

Here now is Tedros and Gates conflating covid19 with climate change – the control of the population is their goal.

175649 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #376 of 1967 🔗

Here you go, here’s the intel on her married status.

175793 ▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Basics, 4, #377 of 1967 🔗

I bet she goes to Davos.

175603 matt, replying to matt, 29, #378 of 1967 🔗

A conversation in the pub with a friend last night has got me thinking. We have a problem with our argument.

“I know you’ve spent a lot of time looking into this, but there must be loads of evidence that disagrees with you as well.”

Now, the simple fact is, that there isn’t. Beyond the unsubstantiated rantings of people like the WHO, Fauci, Whitty and Sridhar, there is simply nothing out there that demonstrated that anything out of the ordinary is happening in health terms. Most countries in the northern hemisphere experienced a not insignificant – but also unremarkable – increase in deaths around March and April. Even more interestingly, most countries in the Southern Hemisphere have not seen a similar effect, either at the same time or in their spring/our autumn (so far). I cannot find a single piece of evidence, or a single academic study that demonstrates that the novel coronavirus is justifiably an abnormally significant public health concern. Genuine plea – if someone can point me to some, I would appreciate it.

The pro lockdown argument rests on the creed that there is an unusually deadly virus in circulation and it doesn’t need to prove it, because it’s a matter of established fact that everyone believes and so must be true.

Why is this a problem for our side of the argument?

It’s a problem, because, taking a position that the governments of the world have reacted in the way that they have, that our societies have been upturned, that our economies have been destroyed, that the population has been propagandised into a state of terror with absolutely no justification at all, is simply not credible. It’s fantastical. Anybody who says this obviously must have lost their mind. It doesn’t matter whether you think cock up or conspiracy, because to think that there has been a cock up of this magnitude is just as unlikely as any conspiracy.

A post with no conclusion, I suppose, but I thought I’d put it out there anyway.

175623 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to matt, 3, #379 of 1967 🔗

It’s fantastical.

But true nevertheless.

Anybody who says this obviously must have lost their mind.

Cos you say so ? C’mon matt, that’s just abuse.

The justification is the ‘great’ reset. Which they have been, and continue to be, quite open about.

175645 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to JohnB, 13, #380 of 1967 🔗

I think you’ve misunderstood. I’m not actually saying that we’re not right, I’m just pointing out that, to anyone who hasn’t actually paid attention to the actual data so far, the facts of the matter are so completely at odds with what’s been done, that it must be nearly impossible to believe them. I’m not saying that we’ve lost our minds, I’m saying that I suddenly realised why people must think that we have.

176942 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to matt, #381 of 1967 🔗

Fair enough. An almost exact parallel to how those of us deemed conspiracy theorists for a few decades have felt. 🙂

175681 ▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 8, #382 of 1967 🔗

Remarkable times require remarkable explanations, I suppose. Though in the end they become banal, in the “banality of evil” sense, when you recognise the emotional incontinence, functional stupidity and petty, cynical self-interest that provide the motivations for so many of the big players.

Doesn’t remove the force of your point, which is basically that people are reluctant to accept the truth because of its significant ramifications for their world view and their personal sense of security in submission to authority.

175783 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mark, 1, #383 of 1967 🔗

Banality of evil: Hancock

176007 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #384 of 1967 🔗

Leonard Cohen: Selected Poems 1956-1968

“All There Is To Know About Adolph Eichmann”









What did you expect?


Oversize incisors?

Green saliva?


176293 ▶▶ djaustin, replying to matt, #385 of 1967 🔗

I don’t think it is the “unusually deadly” part that is contentious (although morbidity has not been studied widely) – I think it is the absence of protective options beyond avoidance that is the issue. The April-May UK deaths pattern is larger than any influenza epidemic in living memory. With the extreme intervention of contact avoidance. This pattern is out of the ordinary and replicated in mortality patterns in all countries that report data. The degree to which one can balance contacts, protection, testing, education and employment is the billion pound question. The role immunity may play just pours more fuel on the fire.

“If you thought that Science was certain – well that’s just an error on your part” Richard Feynman

175605 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #386 of 1967 🔗

Muzzle Wearing Pet Peeve #94:

Two days ago I went on a guerilla visit to the National Gallery to see the Artemesia exhibition. Had no problems whatsoever despite my unmuzzled state and I noticed that the staff responded positively to me being the only bare face in the exhibition.

Great exhibition – well curated and succeeded in showing Artemesia the artist and not Artemesia the victim.

Did not get any dirty looks from the others, in fact one woman who was struggling with her muzzle saw me and discreetly pulled hers down to expose her nose. Obviously not brave enough to remove it but must have thought it was OK not to wear it properly.

What really annoyed me were these two 30 something women talking, rather, mumbling loudly throughout due to them being muzzled. Every time they were near me, I would give them a look and move a bit away to avoid listening to any of their inane mumbling.

Eventually they got the hint and left after 10 minutes.

175654 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #387 of 1967 🔗

In a mask everyone is now Chinese – talking far too loudly.

Just getting the last of the offensive jokes in before the great reset and digital ID with social credit score.

175606 Winston Smith, replying to Winston Smith, 34, #388 of 1967 🔗

Another glorious day in Airstrip One.

I’ve just dropped off Julia at hospital for her rheumatoid arthritis treatment (maskless) and then dropped her car off for a new android screen to be fitted, lovely maskless transaction with the chap.

I’m now enjoying a large caramel latte in Starbucks. No mask challenge, but my fellow citizen directed me to the QRS sign. Since I haven’t downloaded the app she had to enter my details onto the laptop. Smith, Winston, I also gave the correct numbers of my mobile, not necessarily in the right order.

I’m now people watching, reflecting on the stupidity of people.

177357 ▶▶ Emily Tock, replying to Winston Smith, #389 of 1967 🔗

Was their a reaction to your ‘surname’ and ‘given’ name? If not, I despair …

175614 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 33, #390 of 1967 🔗

Health minister Nadine Dorries tweeted yesterday: “Isolating older at risk (over-60s) looks good on paper, in reality it is not achievable. Infections are brought into care homes by care workers, into private homes by those who do their shopping or others with whom they live. Into hospitals by staff. No one can live in isolation.””
Am I the only one who finds this insulting and patronising with no links to reality? On what planet are 60+ in care homes, unable to go shopping or in hospital? For goodness sake the state pension age was increased to 66 the other day. My parents in law are in their late 80’s, live by themselves with no carers and they go shopping.

175619 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to p02099003, 2, #391 of 1967 🔗

I’m with you p

175637 ▶▶ redbirdpete, replying to p02099003, 14, #392 of 1967 🔗

If ‘ no-one can live in isolation ‘ is that not a candid admission that Lockdown cannot possibly work? We need to be seizing on this sort of thing, along with Hancock and Sunack’s callousness towards people’s (non-Covid) lives and careers I mentioned earlier. .

175690 ▶▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to redbirdpete, 2, #393 of 1967 🔗

Of course it is an admission, and a statement of the utter inhumanity of their policies. The very fact that she utters such a pronouncement emphasises her cognitive dissonance.
But, it is Nadine Dorries whose brains, if they were dynamite, probably wouldn’t part her hair.

175724 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to redbirdpete, 1, #394 of 1967 🔗

I made the same point yesterday.

175644 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to p02099003, 4, #395 of 1967 🔗

I think the problem is that the politicians and authorities seem to feel they must have 100% control of everything hence we get all these lockdowns and lock-ins. What we need to do in my view is provide guidance, help and facilities to help people who need to take extra precautions, this should not and does not need to be done by legal dictat.
Most vulnerable people I know are already doing quite a good job of taking care, they mostly avoid raves and busy pubs! We could have a better and more coordinated vulnerable only shopping time, we could offer testing to vulnerable people and the people who are going to visit them. We could give guidance to enable safe family visits to older people. Our village runs a weekly coffee morning which is arranged to be totally suitable for vulnerable people, the local folk who run it do a good job of protection with a happy friendly face, no need for isolation just a bit of consideration.

175780 ▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to p02099003, #396 of 1967 🔗

I agree.

Anyway, at what point does “older at risk” morph into “older”?

175838 ▶▶ kf99, replying to p02099003, 2, #397 of 1967 🔗

The fact that millions do live in genuine isolation is a problem constantly talked about in a normal year. Not now for some reason.

175621 Stephen⁹ Williams, replying to Stephen⁹ Williams, #398 of 1967 🔗

Why is Allegra Stratton on a 12 month contract? Vested interest to make it last longer!

175774 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Stephen⁹ Williams, #399 of 1967 🔗

Ah yes. She’s married to the political editor of the Spectator, who was best man at Rishi Sunak’s wedding….

I wonder if this might mean Toby can get some inside info though?

175625 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 8, #400 of 1967 🔗

The Lancet story is very worrying, and it rhymes with what Germany’s PCR crime, lockdown destruction and mask deaths czar, fake Professor Dr. Christian Drosten (interesting/telling that Devi is just as fake academically as him), stated in his recent comment, which also confirmed his psychogical status as being a ‘mad scientist’ with a God complex: emergency measures and masks forever!
In conjunction with the SUN story, this means that we are nearing the critical point, where we either need to shore up much more physical resistance e.g. by ignoring the laws en masse, openly and deliberately (start with announcing a mask free day/week even on public transport etc. to show protest and demand that policy change) to create an inflection point towards the policies of the GBD and voluntary masking and vaccination only.
Otherwise, it will soon be too late.

175666 ▶▶ helen, replying to Jay Berger, 3, #401 of 1967 🔗

Its a race against time .. no question about it!

176561 ▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #402 of 1967 🔗

Good post .A mask free day sounds great .

175627 PastImperfect, replying to PastImperfect, 7, #403 of 1967 🔗

Trafalgar Square/Hyde Park
Oct 17 & Oct 24
Combined Groups


It seems there is an attempt to bring as many people together for the 24th Oct in particular. Also it seems that there are significantly more women than men attending these protests, so more men, tough men, are needed to make sure that the police don’t interfere.

I haven’t had time to check statements from other groups.

176327 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to PastImperfect, -3, #404 of 1967 🔗

Yes because more men, tough men has always been shown to descalate violence and aggression. I’m quite sure that the women will be safer without them.

175632 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 7, #405 of 1967 🔗

WHO (Accidentally) Confirms Covid is No More Dangerous Than Flu; Head of Health Emergencies Program “best estimates” put Infection Fatality Rate (IFR) at 0.14%


175652 ▶▶ merlin, replying to Victoria, #406 of 1967 🔗

If we then use cdc stats for pure covid deaths, then true IFR=0.14×0.06=0.008pct.

175640 PaulParanoia, 1, #407 of 1967 🔗

Great sketch on YouTube Censorship

YouTube Community Guidelines … “It’s like communism without the cold weather”. LOL


175646 chaos, replying to chaos, 9, #408 of 1967 🔗

Boris pretended to get covid for his Falklands. To rally support for his fight against the virus (i.e. to reset the economy for the WEF, his teenage posho girlfriend Carrie, no tits Greta and Turkish wife-beater dad Stanley).

Trump pretended to have it to open up the economy and resist the WEF.


175656 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to chaos, 7, #409 of 1967 🔗

I want to see Boris hang.

175659 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to Winston Smith, 3, #410 of 1967 🔗

Mussolini and co were hung for all to see from an Esso petrol station. They were already dead though.

175668 ▶▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to Winston Smith, 4, #411 of 1967 🔗

Even if you had the choice between hanging either Hancock or Boris, but not both?

Not that I would actually condone either course of action, but I do believe that they should not be beyond the reach of some form of retribution. They are culpable. For a start, the care homes situation was surely criminal negligence.

175712 ▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to TheOriginalBlackPudding, 3, #412 of 1967 🔗

Boris, he’s in charge (nominally)

176748 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Winston Smith, #413 of 1967 🔗

And Hancock….

175651 James007, replying to James007, 2, #414 of 1967 🔗

Another interesting update.
If the actual numbers and the r-rate turn out not to match predictions, we could argue that the models on which they are based are not to be relied on. (These are similar models which predicted 500K deaths in a do-nothing scenario).

If the numbers increase- we ought to argue that government policy is not achieving the stated objectives (ie get cases down) and is therefore a complete failure, and more restrictions will not work. (Normally when you want to achieve something, and what you are doing isn’t working- you don’t keep doing it more fervently)

I think either way we should also bear in mind that the measures they are using (‘cases’) are not useful anyway. We should question the assumption that getting case numbers to zero is a) necessary and b) achievable.

175665 ▶▶ chaos, replying to James007, 3, #415 of 1967 🔗

Pointless. This isn’t about r numbers or even a virus. It’s about the great reset. The science is whatever they say it is. History is written by the victors. So is the present.

175669 ▶▶ matt, replying to James007, 2, #416 of 1967 🔗

Interesting nugget that I picked up somewhere (it might have been here) but I can’t link to, because I can’t remember the source. The calculation of the R0 is largely based on computer modeling. The model contains certain assumptions: for example, if you reopen the schools, the R0 goes up by X. If you open pubs, the R0 goes up by Y. Therefore, if you’ve reopened schools and pubs, the R0 has gone from Z to Z+X+Y and that has happened regardless of any observable facts, just because the model says so.

Feel free to disregard this, because I can’t link it, but it made sense to me.

175770 ▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to matt, 1, #417 of 1967 🔗

Doesn’t the R number depend upon the number of people with pre-exisiting immunity? If say 60% of the population has immunity, the available pool of potential “victims” is the remaining 40%. If that is so don’t you need to know before you calculate R how many people have immunity, otherwise the exercise is pointless? Or is it assumed that everyone is a potential “victim” which flies in the face of what we know about immunity?

I have a feeling it’s just more smoke and mirrors. Can anyone explain this?

176310 ▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to matt, #418 of 1967 🔗

Actually the calculation of R is largely based on the slope of the epidemic curve (up or down) convolved with a statistical distribution for generation time. Historically models would try and fit a model to the data, but that is not the primary methodology now. The distriution of generation time (5 days with some tail?) leads to some uncertainty and lag from observed slope.

175660 Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #419 of 1967 🔗

There was a large gathering planned for Holyrood tomorrow. I don’t know any detailsI heard about it some days ago.

Currently Extiction have said 3 weeks of protests will target Scotland, earlier this week some extictions climbed onto the roof of holyrood unfurling a banner in an act of protest – oil or wind was their slogan – funny how that matched boris’s wind mills of the mind speech.

175662 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, #420 of 1967 🔗

Is the gathering going ahead??

175714 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, #421 of 1967 🔗

I presume nothing has changed. Surely extinction cannot be allowed to prevent other matters being raised. If you are on facebook one group was called Saving Scotland last time.

175883 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 2, #422 of 1967 🔗

I’m going to go anyway, I’ll be at the back standing next to mayo I’ll be wearing a trench coat, sunglasses and a moustache that might or might not be false

176082 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, #423 of 1967 🔗

I think that sounds wise.

175670 James Marker, replying to James Marker, 2, #424 of 1967 🔗

The assertion that there will shortly be a second wave of serious illness and fatalities of a magnitude comparable to the first wave in the spring is simply not supported by the evidence. The rise in fatalities in the last three weeks barley constitutes a ripple – it is nothing like the sharp rise we saw in late March / early April. It is patently clear that some members of SAGE must have ulterior motives in pressing for tighter lockdown measures.  Are these people motivated by professional, political or financial considerations, or some combination of all three? A good investigative journalist will no doubt find plenty of material to sift through here.

175705 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to James Marker, 2, #425 of 1967 🔗

Well here in Sweden there is *some* increase in cases, but as yet no big jump in hospitalisations…and the weather is getting colder here now..

175706 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to James Marker, 2, #426 of 1967 🔗

True, but there is a severe lack of investigative journalism looking at this fiasco.

175674 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 2, #427 of 1967 🔗

Minor correction to the article on Vitamin D and I quote “ The World owes a lot to a British doctor named John Campbell, who has been active in disseminating in his popular YouTube podcasts the good news related to vitamin D and COVID-19 for months.” John Campbell is a PhD not a physician, he is a former nurse.

175684 ▶▶ chaos, replying to p02099003, 1, #428 of 1967 🔗

I’ve consumed as much as 500,000 IU from supplements in a single day for weeks with no issues. The risk of overdosing on supplements is vastly overstated. Just like with iodine where I have gone as far as several grams for weeks. On a hot day you can generate 50,000 IU in a couple of hours on enough bare skin e.g. exposed back or front. It should be noted that UVB cannot penetrate glass so the body cannot make vitamin D behind glass.

175701 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to chaos, #429 of 1967 🔗

Terrible for the students not allowed to leave their rooms…they should maybe take supplements?

175726 ▶▶▶▶ chaos, replying to Carrie, #430 of 1967 🔗

Vitamin D is fat soluble. In colder climates we hopefully have stored what we need for the winter in our belly, butts and thighs and around our organs. We can get some vitamin D from full fat milk and butter and oily fish.. most people are likely deficient though. Interestingly when the revolution came to Iran back in the 70’s. The ladies, who had enjoyed pretty skirts and even mini skirts (google ladies Iran 1970) were forced again to cover up to protect themselves from the rapey lust of their men and to keep their god happy. MS cases rose in the years following. There is thought to be a link between vitamin D deficiency and autoimmune illnesses such as MS. A link generally between a weakened immune system and D deficiency.

175786 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to chaos, 1, #431 of 1967 🔗

If you take high dose vitamin D3 for longer periods of time, it is highly recommended that you take co-factors vitamin K2 and Magnesium with it as it helps getting the Calcium from the blood into the bones and teeth.

Your body can only make vitamin D if exposed to direct sunlight. You are correct about glass [windows]. Please note that in the UK, from October to March the sun is too low in the sky to make vitamin D.

High dose iodine is excellent for health. Most people are deficient in iodine. Great book to read is Iodine: Why you need it Why you cannot live without it by Dr David Brownstein. No, table salt oil not a good source of iodine.

175902 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to p02099003, #432 of 1967 🔗

Yes Dr Campbell is a PhD and they use the title of Dr.

Sadly medical doctors know very little about nutrients and how nutrient deficiencies result in ill health. It would really be great if medical doctors could focus on health and prevention of disease and not just disease management.

Vitamin D in the Prevention of COVID-19

175676 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 4, #433 of 1967 🔗

IATA claims only one in 27 million air passengers develop Covid in flight
The International Air Transport Association has claimed only 44 Covid cases have been transmitted during a flight – out of 1.2 billion passengers.

The figures translate to one case for every 27 million passengers, or 0.0000036%.

“The risk of a passenger contracting COVID-19 while onboard appears very low,” IATA Medical Advisor Dr David Powell said.

175699 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sarigan, #434 of 1967 🔗

They might claim that is due to masks…

175710 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sarigan, 9, #435 of 1967 🔗

How can anyone possibly know if transmission was specifically on a plane??
This location thing never made sense to me!

175905 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #436 of 1967 🔗

Me neither. I would say it is totally impossible to pin down WHERE you “got infected” with a virus. It has never been possible to pin this down, just make a guess at best.

This is interesting:

“Situated in the space above the passenger cabin (or in the belly depending on the aircraft type) sits the recirculation loop. Here, fans draw air into the system for it to be cleaned. The recirculation loop contains a series of High-Efficiency Particulate Air filters (HEPA) , 15 of them on the Boeing 787 Dreamliner.

HEPA filters on aircraft are similar to those used to keep the air clean in operating theatres. They are so efficient that they trap greater than 99.999% of microbes attempting to pass through them. This includes viruses and bacteria.
Once microbes have been captured by the filters, their survival rate is very low. This is down to the fact that they need relatively high humidity to survive — something which is kept deliberately low in the cabin.

Complete air change
According to IATA.com, on a normal commercial flight, each economy passenger will have 15 to 20 cubic feet of air when sat in economy class. Due to the fewer seats, this value will be increased in the premium cabins.
In addition to cleaning the air, every two to three minutes, the entire volume of air in the cabin is dumped overboard and into the outside air. This flow of air out of the aircraft is as important as the flow into the aircraft.”

Viral transmission on aircraft is all bollocks you are probably less likely to catch anything on a plane that you would be sitting in a restaurant. You probably got “IT” in the airport or on the taxi or the night before down the disco.

176337 ▶▶▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to Two-Six, 1, #437 of 1967 🔗

Let’s not be down on airports/taxis/discos either. The likelihood is that you caught it anywhere you had prolonged intimate contact with someone indoors. We should not seek to stigmatise this since it is contact we’re all happy to risk in order to feel human.

175677 Tking, replying to Tking, 20, #438 of 1967 🔗

What has really got to me over the last few months is the “I’m all right Jack” brigade, the people who will happily tell me that they have a bullet proof job with no worries about loss of income, and can easily work from home through another lockdown, with no thought for people like me who cant operate if that happens, the millions to be made unemployed and the people getting no medical treatment because of Corona are of no interest to them, or it does not even register, they dont care about the collaterol damage or even think about it. These are people with decent jobs which need a level of intelligence to do, what is wrong with them!

I went to a normally busy independant restaurant yesterday which was dead, most restaurants in that town were dead, some of the chains have closed permenantly. It feels like Boris has just pressed the self destruct button.

175717 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tking, 3, #439 of 1967 🔗

He’s destroying the economy and our social fabric. The least he can do is go down with the ship!

176448 ▶▶▶ Joshua, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #440 of 1967 🔗

I was in Birmingham, the more southerly bit, and the place looked like a ghost town even in mid morning. The only people busy were the roadworkers installing overly wide cycle lanes that hardly anyone will use. When I drove through there in January of this year the roads that I travelled on were filled with bustling shops and pubs, now there’s hardly anything open and few potential customers. Boris has destroyed that which we voted him in to conserve which is as you say, the economy and the social fabric.

175720 ▶▶ James Marker, replying to Tking, 7, #441 of 1967 🔗

I suspect the “I’m all right Jack” brigade will change their tune next year when they are hit with much higher taxes and poorer life opportunities. Some people don’t realise they are in a bad situation until it is too late.

175766 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Tking, 3, #442 of 1967 🔗

I don’t get how anyone thinks living like this potentially forever is right. People losing jobs, health compromised, elderly in care homes likely to never see their loved ones again. But part of it I think is that people want an easy life so it’s easier to just say “well it’ll be over in a few months” or “once the vaccine comes along it will all end” etc. And people are lazy when it comes to researching things and will just believe what they’re being told.

175805 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Tking, 9, #443 of 1967 🔗

Generally the people most pro lockdown are middle class, financially secure (they believe), with a nice house/garden, in a nice area, with a lovely family around them. They aren’t people living with abusive partners, on sink estates, in grubby, damp flats five floors up in the shittiest area of town, whose job has just disappeared.

176027 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to The Spingler, 1, #444 of 1967 🔗

If only. Many pensioners, comfy with their pensions and no need to worry about the economy. Many others on lower paid jobs or some type of Government assistance, they BELIEVE and have no clue what the word economy means.

176580 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to The Spingler, 1, #445 of 1967 🔗

I live in a not so good area and many of the crocodile tears I’ve gotten come from people you have described. Its shocking how many of them have no idea how their cheering on of lockdown has affected people who live in areas like mine or even worse!

175916 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Tking, 4, #446 of 1967 🔗

To the normies, there is NOTHING BAD IS HAPPENING AT ALL due to COVID melt-down. They don’t hear about it on the MSM or read about it in the Guardian. Everything is just fine, a little unpleasant but unless they are shopping at Waitrose, life has never been so good. They aren’t spending anything like they used to, the cash still pours in and they don’t have to travel to the office any more. It’s all good, living the dream.

They didn’t go to pubs, gigs, concerts, shows, eat out much or go anywhere on public transport apart from to Tuscany once a year.

They really don’t care about anything other than “managing their exposure”

176062 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Tking, 2, #447 of 1967 🔗

He’s pressed The Great Reset button, as instructed by his Davos/WEF/UN/WHO masters.

176575 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Tking, #448 of 1967 🔗

I know people who belong to that category – both young and old. One of them still worships the Church of the NHS despite having problems getting appointments for his health problems.

They will change their tune once they’re hit with tax raids on their pensions and savings or their values plummet leaving them as worthless as Zimbabwe’s currency. As for the young once redundancy beckons and mum and dad can’t bail them out – they will realise that all that mask wearing and social distancing didn’t help them one jot.

175678 Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #449 of 1967 🔗

Just a quick mention of an Andrew Neil point of view about Sturgeon. Not covid related other that she is the dictator of our lives.

“Responding to the inquiry, veteran broadcaster, Andrew Neil wrote on Twitter: “These revelations, if they were about a prime minister, would be potentially career destroying.

“London media would make it so. So the spotlight now falls on Scotland’s media: are they fans with laptops or a proper independent media prepared to hold Ms Sturgeon et al to account.”


175696 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Basics, 2, #450 of 1967 🔗

The media here are famous for giving Sturgeon an easy time. Not sure why as they can’t all be fans of the Dear Leader.

175824 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 1, #451 of 1967 🔗

There was a guy at the Scottish Sun who landed a few punches but he’s gone quite now. It is one of the reasons why independence is a very bad idea. A badly functioning natiinal press, ditto opposition. I fancy it’s done in masonic lodges and pre meeting meetings – the scottish political strata are not very advanced.

175886 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Basics, 2, #452 of 1967 🔗

The unification of Scotland’s police forces is another clear and present danger.

175679 Bugle, replying to Bugle, 8, #453 of 1967 🔗

Happened to be looking at some pictures of Guantanamo in the Bush era. Part of the sensory deprivation technique was… facemasks.

175695 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Bugle, 1, #454 of 1967 🔗

I might be wrong (and I was no fan of the Guantanamo situation), but iirc the justification at the time was preventing prisoners from spitting on guards.

175711 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Mark, 5, #455 of 1967 🔗

Possibly true, but that could also just be a justification for the abuse of muzzling prisoners.

After all, we have similar justifications now for facemasks – not spitting as such but droplets…facemasks bring no protection against viruses, there is no real reason for them apart from….power obtained from instilling fear.

175769 ▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Kate, 2, #456 of 1967 🔗

It gives the most obvious show of acceptance and obedience to the government, people assume the main thing is that the government advocate them as a protection.

175952 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Mark, 2, #457 of 1967 🔗

What about the blacked-out goggles and earmuffs? I was curious about the psychological impact of facing the world with impaired senses. I know it’s only a mask; nevertheless our senses work together, and deliberately blocking them (and perhaps reducing our oxygen intake) must have a dulling effect on the brain. I certainly have found it so.

176009 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Bugle, #458 of 1967 🔗

A lot of these things are basically sadistic abuse rationalised by hypervigilant supposed precautions.

176591 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bugle, 1, #459 of 1967 🔗

You see that a lot on public transport now – people muzzled up then wearing headphones and constantly on their mobiles. That was already observed in Japan for a few years’ now and many Japanese mental health experts have been raising the alarm over muzzles, headphones and mobiles leading to increased social maladjustment among the young.

We are seeing the same phenomenon here and I can imagine that will dull people’s senses and lead to neurolingustic problems in the future.

176099 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Bugle, 1, #460 of 1967 🔗

and goggles and gloves

175688 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #461 of 1967 🔗

I can’t get over the barefaced lies that are spewing from government spokesmen this morning!!
They are obviously feeling threatened and fighting back hard.

Yesterday, they were claiming that 40% of transmission is via the hospitality sector. The actual figure is 5%.

Just read Sarah Knapton’s piece that leaves no doubt the northern mockdowns have no justification.

Here’s a useful comment:

The PHE data is quite hard to find but the critical question of where people are catching the virus is answered on page 10 of the pHE report:


It shows that household transmission is the overwhelming route. Notably outdoor settings simply do not feature so it is time all outdoor restrictions were ended. Of course hospitality settings play only a very small role.

It hardly takes much thought to see that a ban on indoor household mixing in private homes could make some difference and the rule of six has a bit of justification indoors only, but that restrictions on hospitality and outdoor gatherings are pointless pain.

175756 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #462 of 1967 🔗

did they not mean that “ 40% of transmission is via the hospital sector” a simple mistake to make!!!!

175915 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mjr, #463 of 1967 🔗

No. Definitely all caused by eating out!

175829 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #464 of 1967 🔗

Masks in the home next then? Logic decrees that if you support mask wearing then the setting they have most benefit is in the home. I often make this point to pro maskers but they never engage. I’d love the government to introduce it as a rule – I think it would be breaking point for the vast majority

175691 muzzle, 7, #465 of 1967 🔗

Spoken to a couple of people recently who said they’ve been to a restaurant for the first time since lockdown. WTF? I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve been out to eat. I’ve been away doing whatever sports events I could. Been on ferries, trains, UK holiday, beaches. These are young fit people, who have been convinced that this is a massive danger to them and they should have been out making the most of summer before things got overly silly again.

175698 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 5, #466 of 1967 🔗

Some whimsical calculations.

There is a tremendous amount of mask wearing going on. I would not be surprised if more people spent more time wearing a mask than sat down eating.

Here’s a conservative estimate. Two thirds of the nation spends thirty minutes a day wearing a mask – that’s 22,000,000 hours a day taken up with wearing a mask.

How many hours of mask wearing does it take to prevent a Covid death? Many reading this site will say it doesn’t prevent a single death. But for argument’s sake let’s say it does How many hours are required?

I’m going to make two very extreme assumptions to put the best case for mask wearing:-

a) Mask wearing is 100% effective in preventing Covid deaths (even the keenest advocate of mask wearing wouldn’t make that claim.)

b) and there would have been 1,400 Covid deaths a day this year if nothing was done (based on Niall Ferguson’s prediction of 500,000 deaths this year in total.)

So, using those assumptions (and I realise this is all very questionable reasoning) preventing a single Covid death requires almost 16,000 hours of mask wearing.

That’s the best claim I would argue that can be made for mask wearing. But if mask wearing is only 1% effective then well over a million and a half hours of mask wearing is needed to prevent a single Covid death.

If I live to be a 100 (I’m now 73) without wearing a mask for half an hour a day I will be lessening the GNPMW (Gross National Product of Mask Wearing) by under one thousand hours.

I’m sure that on the basis of the above calculations that can’t be more risky to my own life and others than driving a car!

175865 ▶▶ Trish, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #467 of 1967 🔗

Carl Heneghan stated in his address to the Special Committee on Covid-19 response (Oireachtas – Irish Parliament) on 13 August, that evidence from Norway suggested that 200,000 people would have to wear a mask for a week to prevent 1 infection. Check out the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNI2ocgosgA

176559 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Trish, 1, #468 of 1967 🔗

Much thanks for that. Good to know that I’m not alone in seeking to work out a figure for the amount of mask wearing required to prevent a single Covid death.

176570 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ned of the Hills, #469 of 1967 🔗

Bless the nerds!

175700 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 1, #470 of 1967 🔗

On the radio peeps talking about comparisons with South Korea’s soopadoopa T&T, apparently they do less testing.

Do the South Koreans test people who have no symptoms?

175877 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Major Panic, 4, #471 of 1967 🔗

Test and trace is only viable if you have a small number of infections and contacts.The idea is to stop the spread of the virus so it doesn’t become widespread.In a situation like ours where the virus is endemic in the population it serves no discernible purpose

175987 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #472 of 1967 🔗

I think you maybe missing my point – the South Koreans do not seem to think the asymptomatic are infectious – (this is obviously a good thing)

175996 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Major Panic, 1, #473 of 1967 🔗

Major (humorous question with a serious point).

Have you ever had an asymptomatic cold?

You can only be asymptomatic and infectious in the short period between becoming infected and developing symptoms.

And if you never develop symptoms then:

– you are either immune (in which case I would say you were never infected in the first place)
– what you have is not a living virus

– the test result was wrong

176125 ▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to John P, 1, #474 of 1967 🔗

Nope, never knowingly had an a symptomatic cold.

And the S Korean T&T model shows they don’t believe asymptomatic peeps spread the virus – so why are we testing peeps with no symptoms?

176571 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Major Panic, 1, #475 of 1967 🔗

How else would you manufacture a casedemic?

175703 RickH, replying to RickH, 3, #476 of 1967 🔗

Health minister Nadine Dorries tweeted yesterday:….”

That’s OK then. Anything that walking talking pile of nonsense says – the reverse is true.

175716 ▶▶ RickH, replying to RickH, 1, #477 of 1967 🔗

the Government is predicting a second wave …”

… and we can relax on that front on the same basis of consistent wrongness.

175830 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to RickH, 2, #478 of 1967 🔗

Is this the same second wave they expected in two weeks a fortnight ago?

176073 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #479 of 1967 🔗

Yes – it’s extremely fleet of foot for a fixed certainty 🙂

175707 chaos, replying to chaos, 2, #480 of 1967 🔗

more groundhog day in the papers and on talkradio… covid covid covid covid covid covid…

175790 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to chaos, 2, #481 of 1967 🔗

And MPs are to get a £3,300 pay rise (see Simon Dolan’s Twitter)…

For doing what?????

175807 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, 2, #482 of 1967 🔗


177481 ▶▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Basics, #483 of 1967 🔗

Indeed. There it is again.

175864 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Carrie, 2, #484 of 1967 🔗

For doing exactly what is required of them by the powers that be

176613 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, #485 of 1967 🔗

Nothing. They should not be getting a pay rise. If anything their pay should be slashed.

175709 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 4, #486 of 1967 🔗

Need an argument, where’s Mayo?

175721 ▶▶ matt, replying to Major Panic, 1, #487 of 1967 🔗

Right on cue

175734 ▶▶ Mayo, replying to Major Panic, -7, #488 of 1967 🔗

One of these days I’ll provide a link which might (or perhaps not) interest you.

You need to learn to look at all the evidence – not just the bits you like.

175741 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mayo, 1, #489 of 1967 🔗

please do – i thought i was looking at all the evidence – please do supply a link to alternative evidence

175792 ▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Major Panic, -6, #490 of 1967 🔗

The link I refer to relates to a separate issue – i.e. climate change not Covid but the general points are the same.

Do you look at all the evidence? Critically, I mean?

  1. Did you look crticially at the Ionnadis antibody study?
  2. Did you not find some of Sunetra Gupta’s early predictions totally unconvincing?
  3. What about Michael. Levitt who is being forced to move goalposts now he realises the pandemic is still in play.
  4. And last, but not least, the wishy-washy prior immunity hand waving which no-one has managed to put a figure on. Lots of “up tos” but nothing like certainty.
175832 ▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mayo, #491 of 1967 🔗

Presumably you are assuming that none of the scientist who have signed the Gupta alternative strategy have looked at all the evidence critically.

As for climate change – the science is way beyond me – but fossil fuels are finite is a fact, that’s good enough for me to move to alternatives (provided unintended consequences are considered) – need to save the fossil fuels to keep the planes in the air – hands off my cheap holidays to the beaches and the slopes!

175933 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Major Panic, 2, #492 of 1967 🔗

We’ve had 30 years worth of fossil fuels left for at least the last 50 years, relax (and frack on).

175982 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #493 of 1967 🔗

There are no alternative fuels for passenger planes yet so save whats there for that – why not change to alternative fuels for land/sea transport, heating and cooking, etc now as it is inevitable. I am quite relaxed.
Anyone who denies air pollution from traffic in town is delusional, especially when arguing the dangers from mask wearing

175991 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Major Panic, 1, #494 of 1967 🔗

Both Boeing and Airbus have had electric planes in the air recently. I have a friend who works on the technology to embed the conductors in the carbon fibre.

I expect them to move to hydrogen from which they’ll generate electricity for flight.

176012 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to AidanR, #495 of 1967 🔗

There are also airships – slower but no need for fossils.

176016 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to JohnB, #496 of 1967 🔗

An early adopter of hydrogen-powered flight.

176036 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to AidanR, #497 of 1967 🔗

excellent stuff!

176011 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Major Panic, #498 of 1967 🔗

The pollution is from diesel, not all traffic.

176022 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to JohnB, #499 of 1967 🔗

I’m starting to think the fossil fuel zealots have the same problem as the lockdown zealots

176030 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 2, #500 of 1967 🔗

I’m not pro/against fossil fuels or alternatives, I couldn’t give a shit what powers my car (petrol/electricity/elastic band) as long as i get from where I am to where I want to go

176249 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Major Panic, #501 of 1967 🔗

Can you emapthise with those of us who do care about that? The sounds, smells, emotions, sensations, memories and agency wrapped up in motoring are fundamental to my soul & I know I’m not alone in that.

I don’t pretend it’s rational, and I can see the ‘just get me there’ logic of electric & autonomous transport, but I don’t want something soulful to be usurped by something that goes beep.

I’m looking forward to reading ‘Why we drive’ by Matthew B Crawford, having enjoyed his previous book Shop Class as Soulcraft, about the joy of actually making and mending things with your own hands.

176459 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to AidanR, #502 of 1967 🔗

absolutely I do

176069 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to JohnB, #503 of 1967 🔗

No – it’s all pollutants into the atmosphere.

… and the only positive of the shutdown of society has been to visibly illustrate the fact

176938 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to RickH, #504 of 1967 🔗

Tish. Diesel particulates are orders of magnitude nastier than anything that comes out of a petrol engine.

175989 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Major Panic, 1, #505 of 1967 🔗

Presumably you are assuming that none of the scientist who have signed the Gupta alternative strategy have looked at all the evidence critically

Some have looked at it and decided, even if they have misgivings, that on balance, the Gupta et al strategy is the right one.

I’m 60-40 in that camp myself but not because I think the pandemic is over or herd immunity is close.

176122 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Major Panic, 3, #506 of 1967 🔗

During the last ice age, the CO2 level was estimated to have fallen as low as 180ppm. Plants die at levels below 150ppm.
The low levels of CO2 are because cold water will retain more dissolved gases. When you beat up a liquid, it will release dissolved vases -think of slowly heating water and the bubbles that appear and eventually boil off.
CO2 has also been permanently sequestered by shelled organisms over millions of years into rocks, i.e. limestone, chalk, etc.
If there was another ice age, the likelihood is that so much CO2 would be dissolved into the oceans that levels would fall below the critical 150ppm.
Even without another ice age, all those sea creatures would continue to remove CO2 from the oceans to make their shells, and in a million years, the same thing would happen. At that point, all life as we know it on Earth will die. All life. All life comes from plants that take up CO2 to make sugars and release oxygen. The sugars are used to make more complex organic molecules, and organisms, and everything else. All life on Earth is carbon-based.
There might be a few bacteria that survive, but not much else.

I consider it our responsibility to release more CO2 into the atmosphere to keep life going. We shouldn’t waste it, but we shouldn’t take any notice of this climate change hysteria either.

176179 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Lms23, #507 of 1967 🔗

More CO2 might indeed protect the world from the next age.

Does CO2 produce warming – Yes it does
Is the warming ‘dangerous’ – Possibly not.

175798 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mayo, 1, #508 of 1967 🔗

I don’t think I’ve actually disagreed with you today have I? But please do link that evidence. I’d genuinely love to see it.

176029 ▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to matt, 1, #509 of 1967 🔗

If you mean the “Climate Change evidence”. Read this (mirrored at wattsupwiththat)


Scroll down to this ….

Back in December 2004 John Finn asked about “the divergence” in Myth vs. Fact Regarding the “Hockey Stick” -thread of RealClimate.org.

So 5 years before Climategate some guy was challenging Mann on his own turf about an issue of concern. At the time, Steve McIntyre was one of the few people to recognise the significance of this and while it didn’t directly influence Steve’s brilliant demolition of Mann’s hockey stick reconstruction it did help explain some puzzling issues.

Mann could be challenged because the science supporting much of his defence of the H-S did no such thing. This was true scepticism at work.

Now I’ll leave you to guess who John Finn might be.

175979 ▶▶ John P, replying to Major Panic, 3, #510 of 1967 🔗

We need people to ask questions here like mayo does.

Otherwise we haven’t a chance of challenging lockdown fanatics on what they say.

He (or she) does everyone a favour by asking tough questions.

176050 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to John P, #511 of 1967 🔗

couldn’t agree more
and as Mayo is 60/40 in favour of the Gupta strategy he/she (or John Finn) is no lockdown fanatic. he/she seems less convinced that we are as far through the ‘pandemic’ as prof Gupta’ may be

175715 Mayo, replying to Mayo, -3, #512 of 1967 🔗

The next 2 weeks will be crucial if we are to avoid further lockdowns. Cases are largely irrelevant now. What matters is the proportion of those cases that end up in hospital. The trajectory of hospital admissions is the key metric now. I think, though, we can now safely assume that we are a long way off herd immunity. Seasonality is more likely to be the reason for low cases over the summer. Ferguson definitely got this right.

Re: Vitamin D – regular supplements over winter months for the whole population could be at least as effective as a vaccine.

175722 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mayo, #513 of 1967 🔗

excellent timing…

175732 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 3, #514 of 1967 🔗

Think I might disagree with we can now safely assume that we are a long way off herd immunity” – I don’t safely assume that…

175738 ▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to Mayo, 13, #515 of 1967 🔗

This is what we predict:

Natural rise in hospital addmissions in line with this time of year.

PCR test that has loads of false positives saying the have SARS Cov 2 (even if they’re in for something else)

SARS Cov 2 hospitalisation number therfore rise.

We lockdown again for no sodding reason.

175846 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, #516 of 1967 🔗

Possibly – but it’s still too early to make a definite call on the number of hospital admissions. A few hospitals are a bit ahead of ‘expected ‘ numbers.

176589 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mayo, #517 of 1967 🔗

Which “expected” numbers? It’s October, we’re into flu season. People are highly stressed, we had a very cloudy summer where I live, many immune systems will already be down.

175740 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Mayo, 6, #518 of 1967 🔗

but only if hospital cases are a true reflection of illnesses. Unfortunately they cannot be if they continue to record every admissions as a covid case if the patient shows positive on the mandatory admission test – regardless of what they are admitted for and whether or not there are any symptoms.

175764 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to mjr, 2, #519 of 1967 🔗

Its as if the fear mongers a trying to distort the data/evidence to suit their argument

175848 ▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Major Panic, #520 of 1967 🔗

Could you give an example?

175852 ▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mayo, 1, #521 of 1967 🔗

Surely if someone presents at a&e with a broken leg, then tests positive for what ever the pcr tests for, they should not be in the covid admissions data

175860 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 1, #522 of 1967 🔗

Or somebody with a serious heart problem rocks up to hospital and needs heart treatment, and gets a positive pcr test result, should not be included in covid admissions

175938 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Major Panic, #523 of 1967 🔗

So how many times is that happening?

In any case, I’m pretty sure I’ve seen the data in a format which differentiates between those admitted with a positive test and those already in hospital who test positive.

The trend appeared to be broadly the same in both cases. “In hospital tests” were about 20% of the total.

175959 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mayo, #524 of 1967 🔗

would people who present at hospitals with symptoms and test positive not be better data for covid admissions?

175962 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, #525 of 1967 🔗

do they test for other respiratory illnesses?

175969 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Major Panic, 2, #526 of 1967 🔗

The PCR test can (if the result is valid) tell you that a piece of virus is present in the sample tested. (In human terms an arm or piece of bone.) You can say that belongs to a particular virus. (In the same way you can tell if you have a human arm or human bone).

It cannot tell you, however whether you have a whole virus. (It cannot tell you if the arm is still attached to the person it came from).

Nor can it tell you if that virus (if it is whole) is still “alive” and capable of propagating itself. (Growing).

The standard way to tell if you have live virus is to feed the sample with virus food (a cell culture) on a “plaque assay”. If what’s in the sample eats the food then it’s alive!

175998 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to John P, 2, #527 of 1967 🔗

according to the CDC the PCR test tells you there is RNA present that may not be related to ”the virus” in anyway

176063 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Major Panic, 2, #528 of 1967 🔗

Yes – listen to that extract from Kary Mullis re. PCR :


175759 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Mayo, 3, #529 of 1967 🔗

Technically vitamin D is a hormone not a vitamin. It isn’t ‘vital’ like a vitamin because it can be manufactured by the body. For something to be considered a vitamin it is vital that we consume it because it cannot be manufactured by the body. Cholesterol is also technically a hormone. In humans vitamin C is a vitamin, we being one of the few creatures that cannot make our own vitamin C. A gorilla can manufacture a few grams per day of vitamin C thus it is not vital for them to consume it. I do take a lot of vitamin D and K.. I take a lot of supplements like glycine, alanine, glutamine.. our foods do not contain what they once did.

175882 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to chaos, #530 of 1967 🔗

I wish somebody would produce a single daily pill/drink with all those – so much more convenient

175978 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Major Panic, 2, #531 of 1967 🔗

Make a smoothie.

1 Haddock
1 Grapefruit
handful of almonds
Milk to taste.

Blend, pour, enjoy.

176000 ▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to AidanR, #532 of 1967 🔗

thanks, doesn’t look very enjoyable, I’d prefer a pill or drink sachet

176002 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to AidanR, 1, #533 of 1967 🔗

You could include black tahini, to make it look satanic too. 🙂

176004 ▶▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to AidanR, #534 of 1967 🔗


176175 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to AidanR, 1, #535 of 1967 🔗

Ha this gave me a proper chuckle, good work 😀

176568 ▶▶▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to AidanR, #536 of 1967 🔗

🤮 🤮

176601 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to AidanR, #537 of 1967 🔗

A whole haddock?!

175776 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Mayo, 6, #538 of 1967 🔗

Hospital admission data must be considered within these caveats however:-

  • Are the admissions above what we would expect from the seasonality of a normal virus such as flu both in terms of number and rate of trajectory?
  • What proportion of hospital admissions are directly attributable to Covid and not, for instance, people admitted for flu who also tested positive for Coronavirus?
  • How many people are seriously ill from Covid right now?
  • How many people have been discharged so we don’t just have admissions but active cases of people sick from Covid currently in hospital?
  • Is a rise in hospital admissions for Covid commensurate with a rise or fall in hospital admissions related to other respiratory diseases?
175945 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Achilles, #539 of 1967 🔗

Pretty much agree – which is why I suggested close monitoring over the next 2 weeks.

176182 ▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Mayo, 3, #540 of 1967 🔗

I’d suggest zero monitoring. now and going forward.

Spend the £100bn saved on splitting up care homes to make them smaller, paying care home staff more, avoid cycling of staff between different homes, pay staff to stay on site or nearby when rates of illness appear to be high and provide separate areas for residents who are will.

176619 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tee Ell, 1, #541 of 1967 🔗

But that would be eminently sensible!

175797 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Mayo, 4, #542 of 1967 🔗

The trajectory of hospital admissions is the key metric now .”

As long as we take proper mind of the fact that a lot of “covid admissions” in the stats are just people admitted or in hospital for other things, who happen to test positive (using the notoriously flawed test).

I think, though, we can now safely assume that we are a long way off herd immunity.

Hardly, bearing in mind the dramatically lower numbers in London – precisely the place previously hardest hit and likely to be closer to the (seasonally raised) herd immunity threshold than elsewhere. Reported in yesterdays DM:

A vast majority of NHS trusts – 153 out of 206 – admitted an average of one or no patients per day during that period, showing that a small number of hospitals are making up almost all of the rise in patients……The most recent point shows that 1.82 per cent of beds are taken up with people by coronavirus….. Barts Health NHS Trust in East London is the only place in the southern half of the country to be included, with levels at 10 per cent of their peak.

This data only includes trusts where there were an average of five or more people admitted per day in the last week of September.

How close to the edge is the NHS? Hospitals in Blackpool are admitting up to 60% as many Covid-19 patients as they were in the spring… but more than 150 trusts are now seeing one or no patients per day

Seasonality is more likely to be the reason for low cases over the summer. Ferguson definitely got this right .”

LOL! Seasonality was always the most plausible expectation in relation to this latest addition to the coronavirus common colds, as they are all seasonal. But it’s nice to be reminded of the basic irrelevance of lockdown in ending the March/April epidemic. And also to have Ferguson’s dangerous incompetence highlighted again.

175841 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mark, 2, #543 of 1967 🔗

Apparently Stockholm has a population density of 12,500 per sq. km and london has a density of 13.5 per sq km so not much difference there.

The Swedes must be made of different stuff to us

175892 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Major Panic, 1, #544 of 1967 🔗

Stockholm also is very close to very large bodies of water and likely wind. I lived there during summer so cannot say what winters are like, but I guess their attitude to being outside as much as possible in summer, exposing your body to sunshine and general attitude to a more healthy lifestyle must make a difference. Same in Germany, I believe why numbers in Germany have been low is that they have a good work/leisure ratio, love being active and do not only eat Wurst and drink beer.

175974 ▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Major Panic, -2, #545 of 1967 🔗

There you go again – calling time on the pandemic in Sweden before we know for sure that it’s over.

Francis Balloux reckons we’ve got another 12 months before we can consider it over (see Unherd video)

176015 ▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mayo, #546 of 1967 🔗

I thought you had said previously that Stockholm may well be close to herd immunity

Had they been able to keep it out of nursing homes (and the residents could have enjoyed an additional few weeks/months of nursing home life) and out of the ‘care in the community’ environment then Stockholm would have a more reasonably acceptable outcome on the path to herd immunity.

It would also be interesting to compare how Sweden’s neighbours record nursing home deaths to Sweden

175960 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Mark, -1, #547 of 1967 🔗

Hardly, bearing in mind the dramatically lower numbers in London

London will be closer to herd immunity than the rest of the country but London isn’t the rest of the country.

I still suspect there are sizeable pockets of London which are still susceptible.

176001 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Mayo, 1, #548 of 1967 🔗

Perhaps, but if, as seems overwhelmingly likely, the far lower prevalence in London overall is because it got close to herd immunity, that’s confirming that herd immunity is well within reach.

176624 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark, #549 of 1967 🔗

The lower prevalence may well be linked to less testing. Surely, they can’t be short of tests one week, then testing every town equally the next and come up with such disproportionately high stats for the North?

176140 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Mark, #550 of 1967 🔗

And also to have Ferguson’s dangerous incompetence highlighted again.

Ferguson’s model clearly show a surge beginning in September & October. It looks like he has allowed for some seasonality.

176184 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mayo, #551 of 1967 🔗

”It looks like he has allowed for some seasonality.”

You didn’t mention that assumption a few weeks ago when you first suggested the Prof’s prediction was correct…

the other explanation is that moving his curve exactly 6 months on being a match to the season was a coincidence – or did he mention it in his report?

175808 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Mayo, 1, #552 of 1967 🔗

Blair won’t want that. Vaccine ID is his end game.

175856 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Mayo, 5, #553 of 1967 🔗

Whether we go into a lockdown is not dependent on any medical facts.It is dependent on whether the government thinks the public will put up with it or not

175869 ▶▶▶ helen, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #554 of 1967 🔗

Yes! When is the penny going to drop?

175876 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #555 of 1967 🔗

It’s true. Facts are no longer relevant because they have been around for all to see for the last 6 months and no change in direction. Bizarrely the only “fact” they seem to cling to is Fergusons model which of course not a fact at all, merely a projected scenario/s. Of course Ferguson is quite happy to imply whenever he gets the chance that his model is virtually a certainty.

175977 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Mayo, 1, #556 of 1967 🔗

How do you independently differentiate between those hospitalised with COVID (i.e. symptoms) and those in hospital for other matters who are mis-identified as COVID patients due to a false positive PCR test? The NHS/PHE will not be telling you that.

176166 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Ewan Duffy, #557 of 1967 🔗

They do. I’ll did it out.

176636 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mayo, #558 of 1967 🔗


176461 ▶▶▶ TT, replying to Ewan Duffy, 2, #559 of 1967 🔗

Just to illustrate how much of a self-fulfilling prophecy it all is: I had to visit my GP lately, and took the opportunity to comment on the increasing insanity of Covid-mania while there was still no major difference compared to a bad season of the classic flu. She conceded that point but added that nevertheless, health workers in the hospitals (she collaborates regularly with one of the major inner city hospitals here in Brussels) were all exhausted from overwork and the phone in her own cabinet didn’t stop ringing from morning to evening, etc… when I asked if this was due to truly serious cases of Covid, she replied not really, rather to “scores upon scores of pople with the sniffles or mild flu-ish symptoms who are panicking and feel the need to get tested, and/or people who tested positive and rush to hospital despite having no symptoms or nothing more severe than a cold”. So yet again, a very strange logic: ‘strict measures’ are supposedly required to avoid straining the health services to breaking point, but all these measures seem to be doing is putting useless strain on those same services (and of course diverting resources for more essential treatments). Same thing is probably going on everywhere…

176487 ▶▶▶▶ TT, replying to TT, 1, #560 of 1967 🔗

Forgot to add: my GP also confirmed she hadn’t had a single real case of Covid in her practice since the beginning of the craze early this year, and hadn’t personally learnt of one in the entire area she is active in (admittedly the ‘wealthier’, greener part of Brussels) …

176643 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to TT, #561 of 1967 🔗

They obviously don’t have our very efficient 111 system that keeps you on hold for so long that it deters all but the most determined from phoning in the first place.

176021 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Mayo, 2, #562 of 1967 🔗

I think you are correct. We have not reached herd immunity as all nations have all adopted SD and the majority lockdowns which just postpone the day of reckoning. The harder the lockdown the bigger the second wave as Spain is a good example of. A half measured late lockdown like UK probably a bit more localized second wave as the currently in Northern England most likely more immunity at least in London. Sweden will absolutely have the second wave but most likely less than the fanatic lockdown countries. Egypt, Pakistan and Haiti are three countries with bigger claim to have reached herd immunity having rapidly let the pandemic rush through unmitigated. I wouldn’t single out Fergusson as remarkable prescient as any amateur epidemiologist could figure out the autumn wave. If this was a flu pandemic, current wave would be the second wave just like Asiatic flu 1957(In fact remarkable similarities also in the IFR). Why can’t the lockdown fanatics just accept that at least it didn’t overwhelm the NHS in April? Any lockdown now would be completely useless as too late and in the end more lethal than the disease. If we had had all (incl Sweden) like in the flu pandemic guidelines and previous flu pandemics all stopped  SD in June we would have been in much better position now. Agree that Vitamin D to all seem to be a very good idea.

176049 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Mayo, 1, #563 of 1967 🔗

“The trajectory of hospital admissions is the key metric now.”

No, no, no – not unless you have definitive evidence of what agent is responsible.

Let’s call it the up-to-date version of the ‘fell under a bus syndrome’ : be careful about what is attributed to Covid – it’s often something else in disguise.

Actually – the same applies to deaths. Distinguishing Covid from other respiratory causes – let alone everything else is impossible.

176142 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to RickH, -1, #564 of 1967 🔗

No, no, no – not unless you have definitive evidence of what agent is responsible.

A statistically significant trend of those with symptoms will be a very good indicator.

176185 ▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Mayo, 2, #565 of 1967 🔗

Only if there is minimal overlap of symptoms. And of course, we know this is not the case. Next.

176094 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Mayo, #566 of 1967 🔗

Ferguson has never got any of his predictions right. Including this one.

176151 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Lms23, -4, #567 of 1967 🔗


~40k deaths under lockdown
Peak in early/mid April
second surge beginning in late September.

He’s doing pretty well so far.

176171 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Mayo, #568 of 1967 🔗

H ow are you defining “herd immunity” here?

175727 GrowYourOwn, 1, #569 of 1967 🔗

Not sure if this has been highlighted before but here is a FDA document, dated July 2020, about the PCR test, https://www.fda.gov/media/134922/download

Interesting points regarding false positives are on page 37 under the heading ‘Limitations’.

On page 39, under the heading ‘Performance Characteristics’ it states:

‘Since no quantified virus isolates of the 2019-nCoV are currently available, assays designed for detection of the 2019-nCoV RNA were tested with characterized stocks of in vitro transcribed full length RNA’

It appears they basically made an assumption as to what this virus is as it’s never been isolated.

Does anyone know if there is a document that proves the virus has since been isolated?

Thanks to Jon Rappoport for bringing this document to my attention, https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2020/10/08/the-smoking-gun-where-is-the-coronavirus-the-cdc-says-it-isnt-available/

Also, does anyone have the link to the UK Government’s document from earlier this year which states that Covid-19 has been downgraded from an infectious disease?

175736 swedenborg, 8, #570 of 1967 🔗

I can’t vouch how authentic the comment is as it is quoted from another forum. But any facemask bought in the US does not promise any protection due to liability issues. I think the comment rings very true and therefore I take the liberty to republish it here. I might not agree completely with him/her in the penultimate paragraph but otherwise seems correct.

“When you go buy that mask, the package explicitly states that it is not a medical device and will not protect you from pathogens. Even n95 masks.
You don’t need studies because no manufacturer is willing to risk a potential multi billion dollar lawsuit if people wear their masks, and then get infected.
There is no FDA certified mask for blocking infections from parasites, fungus, spores, bacteria, or viruses.
There will never be a certification because in order to certify the product, you would need to blast live pathogens at a person wearing the mask and test for infection. Based on medical AQL standards, if you were to say that your potential production run was 100 million masks, you would need to test the masks on at least 5 million people and prove that 99.9% of people were not infected in order to claim the mask prevents infection.
The only mask that has any kind of efficacy statement is the duckbill TB mask, and even that says it can only reduce risk and not prevent infection. It must also be fit tested and worn without having any seal leakage to be effective. Just buying one and wearing it carries ZERO GUARANTEED PROTECTION.
I design and test safety equipment for a living. We test nearly 100 pieces of equipment every week to keep our certification. Even passing every test, and beating the safety standard with huge margins, we still can’t say our product will prevent a life threatening injury. If we do, we’d lose our certification and open ourselves to lawsuits that would put us out of business.
By the way, did you know that every mask mandate was followed by an increase in overall infection rates?
That is because infections caused by rebreathing expelled bacteria, molds, and fungus that multiply in the mask have the same infection profiles as supposed Covid-19. Masks cause respiratory infections and we are now seeing that they are causing massive dental problems that can lead to serious complications.
Great job politicians.”

175744 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 23, #571 of 1967 🔗

Watch America. Watch Trump. Watch out for the coming election in the USA. Trump (as the leader of the ‘free’ world together with Scott Atlas) will get us out of this unholy mess.
Once America is freed from this ridiculous take over by the ‘Virus Zombies’ the likes of Johnson and his cohorts (and including that excuse for a Labour leader Starmer) will have to fall in line. Then, dear friends and fellow sufferers, we will be able to hold them accountable for their ‘crimes against humanity.

175762 ▶▶ Mayo, replying to Harry hopkins, -15, #572 of 1967 🔗

Unfortunately Trump won’t win.

175795 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mayo, 3, #573 of 1967 🔗

are we safely assuming again?

175804 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Mayo, 8, #574 of 1967 🔗

My money says he will.

175817 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to AidanR, 6, #575 of 1967 🔗

You’re braver than I am in putting money on it, but I fervently hope you are correct, as should any lockdown sceptic.

It’s encouraging for me that you have that confidence, though, because.you seem to generally talk sense.

175862 ▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Mark, 7, #576 of 1967 🔗

I won money on him in 2016, and on the Brexit vote. I got 33/1 on Corbyn becoming Labour leader.

I’m not saying it’s nailed-on – things are very different than they were 4 years ago, but I think Creepy Joe and RoboKamala have even less appeal to the very significant black & hispanic vote than Hilary did, and I think a lot of people who were initially shocked by Trump’s New York manner will have become inured to it.

Further, people have been rightly horrified by the BLM riots and AntiFa. Gun sales are through the roof and any talk of gun control is now more toxic than ever. Identity politics have become a real big issue too, and Trump’s stand against that will win him votes with normies who resent their learned color-blindness being thrown back in their faces.

I honestly think he’s in with a better shout than the 6/4 I got on him this time tells us.

175881 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to AidanR, 7, #577 of 1967 🔗

I couldn’t agree with you more. My best friend lives in America and supported Trump first time round. He was confident he would win then and he is even more confident about him winning this time. Unlike in the UK, the American people seem to treat the mainstream media with the contempt it deserves.

175918 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to AidanR, 1, #578 of 1967 🔗

Can’t disagree with you on the points you make in his favour, I’m just naturally pessimistic. I was pleasantly surprised by both the 2016 result and by the Brexit referendum result.

I think a lot depends on his health and how the covid plays out over the next few weeks. If, as should be expected, he continues in robust activity and it becomes increasingly hard to sustain the coronapanic agenda in the US, he must be in with a better shout. Americans like strong, positive, can-do messages.

US election odds 2020: Trump vs Biden – Who will be next president?
There may not have been a clear ‘winner’ of the only vice-presidential debate, with the possible exception of the show-stealing fly that spent two minutes on top of Mike Pence’s head at the height of the action, but Paddy Power still reacted by easing Donald Trump in the US election odds.

Trading at odds of 7/4 to remain in office before the debate, the current POTUS was 15/8 when the books opened this morning. Joe Biden has shortened from 4/9 to 2/5 in the same market.

175922 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to AidanR, -4, #579 of 1967 🔗

The weakness of the opposition is Trump’s main hope but a lot of the key states were very close in 2016 and it will only take a slight swing for the Dems to win them.

176042 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Mayo, 3, #580 of 1967 🔗

‘weakness of the opposition’

You mean the war mongering and totally corrupt party that is in hoc to the Military industrial complex and Big Pharma and whose presidential hopeful is someone who rather than be headed to the white house would be wiser to book his place in a care home…….that opposition?

176064 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Harry hopkins, 5, #581 of 1967 🔗

I am sure Biden wears bottom nappies now as well as face nappies.

176078 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Mayo, 4, #582 of 1967 🔗

I’m assuming that the repellence of the Democrats over the last four years, along with the violence and rioting coming from their allies on the far left, some of whom don’t actually support the Democrat candidates which I find rather amusing considering the lengths to which the party has gone to defend and support them, will have swayed enough voters to support Trump even if they don’t actually like him. They’ll support his policies, even if they find him personally abrasive.

That’s what I’m hoping for. Those on the real far left, the ones making all the noise, aren’t a majority. They’re a small but very vocal minority. Most voters don’t support their brand of lunacy, so it will depend on whether they’ll put their vote where their values are.

175843 ▶▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to AidanR, 3, #583 of 1967 🔗

I believe he would win hands down assuming a legitimate election. But the mail in ballots are a wildcard. Spot any potential room for problems, or duplicate votes?

176085 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Stringfellow Hawke, 3, #584 of 1967 🔗

Duplicate votes have already been going out. Some voters have claimed to have received as many as four ballot papers, include some from states they’ve never lived in.

177346 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Emily Tock, replying to Lms23, #585 of 1967 🔗

I don’t know how NY state is working with actually returned absentee ballots, but I got a link to download a pdf for my ballot, then I also received a paper ballot mailed to Ireland … And FYI, I don’t vote for either side of the monopoly, so basically I’m a pariah.

175956 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Mayo, 4, #586 of 1967 🔗

Did your handlers tell you that?

175993 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mayo, 1, #587 of 1967 🔗

Of course he will. (Have a good couple of days off ?).

176057 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Mayo, 1, #588 of 1967 🔗

Is that because the 77th have been given their orders to make sure he doesn’t?

175748 JustMe, 4, #589 of 1967 🔗

From https://twitter.com/MichaelYeadon3/status/1295638130062753792

Yardley Yeadon

3 of 3

One small study showed that people had robust T-cell responses to the first SARS & that was 2003! So what now? Well, the tests we’ve used to date have served us well. The PCR test for virus is good enough to confirm infection in someone with symptoms. Is it flu or is it covid19 was easily answered. What it’s very poor at is what is being asked of it now, in mass, community testing. We don’t know exactly what the false positive rate is, but it is widely believed to be greater that the actual, remaining prevalence of the virus! The result of continuing to use this test alone is to generate a high proportion of false positives. Note that recent so-called ’spikes’ were never accompanied or followed by people getting ill, going to hospital & dying in elevated numbers.
I truly believe most of the positives from mass testing are false ones. I don’t think the test now helps us at all & IMO it should immediately cease. A couple of closing points, which I can’t ignore, even though they’re embarrassing & some are totally tragic and scandalous. First, lockdown. I think there is no solid evidence that it played any role in slowing transmission.

175753 JustMe, 5, #590 of 1967 🔗

From https://twitter.com/MichaelYeadon3/status/1295638130062753792
Yardley Yeadon
2 of 3

The observation that only 7% have antibodies to the virus is NOT the same as saying only 7% have been infected (though our media often & wrongly assumes so). This is because the antibody system is but one of several tools our immunology has to defend us. There have been at least 2 independent papers published showing that roughly, for every one infected person who goes on to develop enough antibodies for us to easily see them, two further people develop those magic memory T-cells.
So who knows, perhaps 21% of the population have been infected. It’s my view based on a complex calculation, which may be wrong, that roughly 28% had been. But these estimates are at least in the same range, and this is about to be crucial, too. Other epidemiologists, including some who are regarded as world leading, have crunched numerous formulae. They show that, with the extent of prior immunity that we now know about, only 15-25% of the population is completely sufficient to bring the spread of the virus to a shuddering halt.
There are a couple of final scientific but sad components to this horrible understanding. We saw, early on in the pandemic, the number of daily deaths absolutely soar. We did not know then where it would stop riding. But we do now have a good explanation for the very steep rise & much slower fall. It’s that it’s been shown previously, and we appeared to have forgotten it, that the most easily infected people got infected earliest. Sounds obvious & in a way, it is. We vary hugely, not only in our responses to viruses, but also in the ease or difficulty the virus finds as it tries to invade us. The most susceptible were those already elderly and/or ill, some very ill, and so we saw very high death rates initially. Once that super-susceptible group were consumed by the virus, it began a slower march through everyone else, slowing all the time, as the % susceptible fell & fell towards the herd immunity threshold.
That is where we now are & that is why the virus is disappearing from the environment. While there are some ‘cases’ they are the hardest to infect & I think in large measure they are mostly the least vulnerable medically. That’s why deaths have almost ceased, having fallen over 99% from peak. All the numbers monitored carefully fallen like this, too: the numbers being hospitalised, numbers in hospital, number in intensive care, all way to 99% lower than peak. You might be asking, where is the 2nd peak? The truth is, that generally doesn’t happen. You don’t generally get infected by the exact same virus twice, certainly not close in time. It’d be a poor immune system which let that happen & we’d probably not have made to the 21st century if that’s how it worked. So there’s an expectation of some duration of immunity. It needs studying, but my experience suggests it you’ve memory T-cells, durability can be very long.

175760 JustMe, replying to JustMe, 9, #591 of 1967 🔗

From https://twitter.com/MichaelYeadon3/status/1295638130062753792
Yardley Yeadon
1 of 3

Blair is urging world govts to massively increase testing both in scale & frequency everyone & often. This is preposterous. Those with a good knowledge of immunology know with a high degree of certainty that the best way to return towards normality is to do just that. There are very good reasons to believe that the population of U.K. & of many heavily infected countries have arrived at the politically hated state called ‘herd immunity’. This term isn’t political but is decades old & arose from study of infectious diseases in livestock. It’s how mammals, specifically jawed vertebrates, learned to live with the thousands of viruses that infect every living organism on the planet, not just us, but even plants, fungi & bacteria.
The plain facts are that our Govt was & still is advised using a fatally flawed model. Now, if that model was correct, we would be a horrible trouble. We’re told only 7% have antibodies to the virus & the model assumes we started with 100% susceptibility, because the virus is new. So then the logic is the virus hasn’t gone away & must sooner or later return. This is the basis of all the 2nd Wave fears you hear. But the model IS fatally flawed & I will now prove it.
First, I ask you to take the first bit on trust. It’ll be backed up by others science in a moment. I’ve spent my whole professional life in biomedical research. When I see a graph that has particular characteristics, I’m certain to my core that it’s a natural phenomenon, not human made. Look at the daily covid19 deaths vs time curve for UK. That’s a Gompertz type curve & these are typical of natural, biological phenomena, seen time without number, in the thousands of scientific papers I’ve read. It’s the shape of my own research too.
So since mid-April, I’ve been looking for the underlying natural causes underlying it. Some very good researchers both practical & theoretical have been hard at work during this time. We now know without a shadow of doubt, that 30-50% of our population already had resistance, call it immunity, to this new virus, before it even arrived. How? Well, SARS-COV-2 is new, but coronaviruses are not.
There are at least four well characterised family members which are endemic & cause some of the common colds we experience, especially in winter. They all have striking sequence similarity to the new virus. The way our clever immune systems work, we have certain white cells called T-cells whose job it is to memorise a short piece of whatever virus we were infected with so the right types can multiply rapidly & protect you if you get a related infection. This has been shown in dozens of blood samples taken from donors before the new virus arrived. The paper was published in the top journal, Science, this month.
Prior to this, three other excellent groups including the top immunologists in Germany, Sweden & the USA each independently published similar findings. These papers showed this pre-immunity is geographically widespread, but it was only the Science paper that gave us the why & how. So we modify the Govts model and say at worst, 70% might have been susceptible. It’s actually even fewer, because children, especially young children, appear much harder to infect. This, too, has a recent & solidly scientific explanation.
To do you harm, viruses need to get inside your cells. To do that, they exploit as ‘grappling hooks’ receptors on the outside of those cells, in the case of the new virus, at blazing speed, scientists determined it is an enzyme called ACE2. It turns out that the levels of ACE2 are highest in adults & much lower in children, the less, the younger they are. That’s a wonderfully lucky break, and goes some way in explaining why they’ve been spared. Anyway, so now it’s at least 35% who are resistant / immune & will neither get ill nor participate in viral transmission. This is so crucial to understanding where we are. The proportion of the population that need to be resistant to an infection, in order to stop it spreading, depends on the proportion who were originally susceptible AND the reproduction number, or R. If 100% truly were susceptible, then we’d need 65% infected for that to happen. That would have resulted in very many deaths than sadly we’ve had. But if, as well are now sure, a much lower % are susceptible, it takes far fewer to catch the virus before there are too few susceptible people left & so increasingly, the virus couldn’t find the next person to infect. That is exactly what has happened.

175782 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to JustMe, 5, #592 of 1967 🔗

Blair, the evil in the shadows, destroying this country. His ‘Foundation’ connected to Gates.

175787 ▶▶ Basics, replying to JustMe, 3, #593 of 1967 🔗

Blair. The man thought of as a war criminal speaks out about testing. Okay, if he thinks it is in anyway his place to comment from his blair institute for global change or whatever it is called.
Blair speaks because the globalist puppets in governmentare failing.

So smirking bastard hancock may not feel any pressure from the population- he’ll be feeling the breath of blair on his neck. I would expect it is similar to that of a dementor.

176051 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Basics, 3, #594 of 1967 🔗

The Breath of Blair will turn you to stone. He should be muzzled permanently. A vile man. The true face of evil incarnate.

175823 ▶▶ Mark, replying to JustMe, 6, #595 of 1967 🔗

If Blair urges it, don’t do it.

Seems as good a general guide to behaviour as any one liner I’ve seen.

175859 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Mark, 2, #596 of 1967 🔗

Why does anyone still listen to that guy?

175875 ▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #597 of 1967 🔗

They are all listening to him, that’s the problem

175777 nat, replying to nat, 4, #598 of 1967 🔗

According to this CDC document about the PCR test (from July 2020) there is no isolated specimen of the virus.

On page 39, in a section titled, “Performance Characteristics,”it says:

“Since no quantified virus isolates of the 2019-nCoV are currently available, assays [diagnostic tests] designed for detection of the 2019-nCoV RNA were tested with characterized stocks of in vitro transcribed full length RNA…to mimic clinical specimen”

T he CDC goes on to say they are presenting a diagnostic PCR test to look for RNA which is presumed to come from the virus.


A similar document from January on the WHO website says the same thing. (page 35)


What to make of this ?

175789 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to nat, 2, #599 of 1967 🔗

”presumed to come from the virus” – hell of a presumption…

175814 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Major Panic, 3, #600 of 1967 🔗

Exactly. Just another nail in what should be coffin of the use of PCR testing as an indicator of Covid illness.

175893 ▶▶ John P, replying to nat, 3, #601 of 1967 🔗

Toby published something on this on the lockdown sceptics main page a couple of days ago.

The PCR test – assuming that the test has been carried out properly and the result is valid – does not test for live virus .

The PCR test confirms the presence of viral fragments. (“Arms” and “legs” – viral body parts).

The PCR test does not confirm the presence of “live” virus.

With some clever manipulation of the technique it might be possible to infer that there is a “live” viral infection, but the test cannot actually say whether what is detected is viable or not.

The standard way to test for live virus is to use a “plaque assay”.

A dish with cell culture (virus food) has a sample placed on it. If the food is “eaten”, producing “plaques” then that proves that a live virus is present in the sample.

175950 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to John P, 2, #602 of 1967 🔗

Thanks for that, I had a look. What I would like to know – if Covid has not been isolated, how does the test distinguish between it and other colds and flus?

175784 l835, replying to l835, 15, #603 of 1967 🔗

On my way to work this morning in my county (I deliberately went via the next door county to cross the border pointlessly twice) I noticed that signs had been erected by the boundary sign to say “You are entering a local lockdown area. Restrictions apply” Now the second sign was on a very minor road only ever used by locals, who (a) know where the county boundary is, and (b) know what the restrictions are. What a complete waste of money. I’m afraid I stopped and carefully put it in the hedge. Middle class direct action!

176028 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to l835, 1, #604 of 1967 🔗

go back get it and weigh it in, probably worth a tenner at least. If you get a few it all ads up! They would buy a few nice bottles of wine in Waitrose and some organic Sicilian olives.

175785 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 5, #605 of 1967 🔗

I’ve finally received a generic reply (from an aid) to one of my emails to Sir Starmer.

Here’s how I responded:

Dear Lee,

Thank you for at least replying to me.

You end by stating, “Above all, we need leadership” – I totally agree but sadly neither the PM nor Sir Starmer are able to provide such leadership. If Sir Starmer had forensically looked at the facts like a trained lawyer ought to then he’d know that we’ve been duped by this government into believing that Covid19 is a vicious threat.

I believe that history will show that the Labour Party, and Sir Starmer in particular, missed an opportunity to gain power or forcing a general election by supinely following the government’s narrative and being complicit in the scare mongering and misleading information that has been provided since March. If the Labour Party had the discernment to see what was going on and spoken against lockdowns from the start then things could well have been very different in this country, we could have been getting on with our lives normally as they are in so many other countries and places, including Wuhan, China and Sweden.

I will never, ever vote for the Labour Party (and I voted for them in the last election as I didn’t want Mr Johnson as PM) since I believe that they have not been the voice of the people or the voice of truth.

Kind regards,

175800 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Moomin, 3, #606 of 1967 🔗

You might also ask how the pay rise of £3,300 they are apparently getting can be justified!

Note that number 33 again….

175914 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Carrie, 1, #607 of 1967 🔗

If you divide 2020 by 666 you get Harris/Biden campaign text number (30330) spooky!

175874 ▶▶ John P, replying to Moomin, 2, #608 of 1967 🔗

Well, the Labour Party committed suicide last year by not fully supporting their then leader.

176043 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to John P, 3, #609 of 1967 🔗

It would have been suicide to have supported him.
The electorate don’t want full-blown socialism, but unfortunately they’ve now got it anyway.

175791 mjr, replying to mjr, 5, #610 of 1967 🔗

just started watching new version of “Brave New World” (its netflix or amazon) . it is pretty ropey.
However it is a good corollory of covid world… Mind control, no freedom control by drugs, etc etc. The brave new world also offers unlimited no strings sex available on demand. Now if Handjob was to make that available via the NHS maybe i could live with lockdown

175887 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to mjr, 2, #611 of 1967 🔗

Can’t imagine Johnson’s or Sturgeon’s post Covid world being anything other than pure misery.

I watched an old film from 1988 called ‘They Live’. I am starting to think the world really is like this after 7 months of madness – funny they also had a project completion date of 2025 (sound familiar). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sHp_WUF2tM

176020 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Darryl, 1, #612 of 1967 🔗

They Live is a classic. The alleyway fight alone.

175896 ▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to mjr, 2, #613 of 1967 🔗

The no strings sex is only on offer to the alphas; and the betas have no choice but to comply. Rather like eating a turkey you know has been starved so that it can slim down to feed only six, do you really want sex with people who have no choice but to comply?

And are you even an alpha? Posting on here would seem to indicate not. Lol.

This is a sh1t new world, and I refuse to engage.

175907 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Miss Owl, #614 of 1967 🔗

hell Suey.. you are obviously paying attention to the plot!!
I guess what you say explains BlowJo’s last few years

175904 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to mjr, #615 of 1967 🔗

No prescription needed for a handjob which would probably be more fun than your suggestion.

176365 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to mjr, #616 of 1967 🔗

Who knows, maybe that’s part of the longer term plan! I have noticed that in order to be a fully woke identity politician you have to be in favour of all kinds of sex work. And even claim that you’re discriminated against by phobics if people don’t find you attractive.

176704 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, #617 of 1967 🔗

A month or so back, UK Column had been sent some disturbing official school teaching material in which young teens were being coached about masturbation.

Next term’s Home Ec syllabus: How to make a glory hole?

175794 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #618 of 1967 🔗

Nadine Dorries. A massive cheerleader for Boris before he became Tory Party leader. Cried when he chickened out the first time around.

She was just about the first famous person to get ‘Covid’ back in March. Said it was really bad, but only stopped tweeting for a couple of days…

If she’s spouting about Covid in a way that does Boris a favour, I’d take her claims with a pinch of salt.

175842 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #619 of 1967 🔗

Dorries is and always has been completely demented.

175868 ▶▶ John P, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #620 of 1967 🔗

She probably feels guilty about giving it to Boris.

176201 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #621 of 1967 🔗

Murderously incompetent based on the most recent statement.

175799 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 6, #622 of 1967 🔗

That phrase ‘the lunatics have taken over the asylum’ has never been more apt

175815 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Dan Clarke, 14, #623 of 1967 🔗

Exactly! From Simon Dolan just now:

The average age of people who died with Covid-19 in England and Wales since it began is 82.4

The average age of people who die from all causes is 81.5

Apparently those with COVID actually live longer than those without.’

175898 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Carrie, 1, #624 of 1967 🔗

That’s very good way of putting it!

175975 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Carrie, 1, #625 of 1967 🔗

I’m going to jump in here before Richard Pinch and give the counter argument he will give that if you are 82 today you can expect to live for another 8 years so even the average age means that people are being robbed of 8 years life. However, this is just statistical sleight of hand:-

Firstly that figure has to be reduced by a number of years if you have health conditions.

Secondly, if we assume that anyone can be infected including children then the average age of death is a valid measure to assess the seriousness and impact of the disease in the population as a whole particularly in years of life lost (that’s why you would get a vastly different figure for Spanish Flu).

Thirdly even if you are in your 80s and get Coronavirus you still have over a 9 in 10 chance of surviving it, which is probably more reflective of the existing health condition and vulnerability of the person than the seriousness of the illness.

Of course this all misses the point anyway. All the information we have now supports the view that Coronavirus/Covid is unremarkable when compared to equivalent respiratory diseases both in terms of numbers dying, age/health profile of those who die and death profile over time, and therefore in no way justifies lockdown either scientifically in terms of efficacy or morally in terms of balance to the harm done.

176576 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Achilles, #626 of 1967 🔗

Thank you for the trailer, but I wasn’t going to make quite the argument you attribute to me. It is true that the average life expectancy of the average 82 year old is 8 (men) or 9 (women) years. But what the average life expectancy is of the group of 82 year olds who catch Covid, or the subgroup who die of it is, based on their health conditions, is a matter of fact that can only be determined by looking at the data. It can’t be deduced from nonsensical calculations about average life expectancy (that’s “statistical sleight of hand” if you like), nor it is a matter of mere assertion. It’s the sort of thing that requires evidence. I would refer to DHSC/ONS/GAD/HO: Direct and indirect impacts of COVID-19 on excess deaths and morbidity where a start has been made on gathering that evidence.
The average age of deaths, and number of years of life lost, or quality-adjusted years if you prefer, is indeed an important thing to think about. But you have to be prepared to make, and stand by, a rather brutal analysis. The “oh, they were going to die anyway” view is, I suggest, adopted by some peoplenot because of its statistical or factual validity but it’s because what they want to believe — it makes them feel happier about their other views.

175821 Darryl, replying to Darryl, 5, #627 of 1967 🔗

Politico have another interesting video ‘Boris Johnson: just how big a liar is he?’ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed57v4qWHNI . I think most of us on here know the answer.

175935 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Darryl, 3, #628 of 1967 🔗

Good. But actually quite a small sample of the lies that Fat Toad tells.

175961 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to RickH, 8, #629 of 1967 🔗

When I was growing up it would have been inconceivable for a womanizing adulterer with a girlfriend near half his age to become PM. 6 or 7 kids, only 4 of which were conceived in wedlock. Yet here we are. It says a lot about his maturity actually that his muse is half his age.

175983 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to chaos, 1, #630 of 1967 🔗

If the population in general had known about it, yes. Otherwise, I’m sure it happened a lot.

176052 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to chaos, 1, #631 of 1967 🔗

DLG, PM from 1916 to 1922 didn’t do so badly in those stakes! Lloyd George knew my father, my father knew Lloyd George…

176732 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to chaos, #632 of 1967 🔗

Yes. Emotional age of about 12.

176585 ▶▶ zubin, replying to Darryl, #633 of 1967 🔗

Fantastic video, best I’ve seen in the whole duration of this horrendous national debacle

175828 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 13, #635 of 1967 🔗

The links are Blair Foundation, the man in the shadows, manipulating the Blairites in the UK. The Blair Foundation closely linked to the Gates Foundation, who are linked to Climate Change Foundations, closely linked to major pharma companies. The end game is the vaccine ID to control the world population and movement.

175855 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #636 of 1967 🔗

A very dangerous man

175834 RickH, replying to RickH, 6, #637 of 1967 🔗

The item on Devi Sridhar raises fascinating questions about her rapid rise in the circles of academe.

Basically, it seems another aspect of the Oxford PPE magic circle that has given the nation so many incompetents.

175839 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to RickH, 10, #638 of 1967 🔗

She ticks enough diversity boxes to get her in the door and tops up her credits by being a lapdog of the NWO.

175967 ▶▶ Basics, replying to RickH, 2, #639 of 1967 🔗

Helen posted an extraordinary link today about the similar rocket propelled rise of a devi contemporsry Daniel Korski.

It would be very helpful to the world is a similar investigation was done an Sridhar.

176202 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to RickH, #640 of 1967 🔗

I’m surprised she is referred to as an expert. She has no expertise in biology, virology or epidemiology. Her expertise is only in “health governance”. On coronavirus, she should be listened to no more than you or I.

176734 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tee Ell, 1, #641 of 1967 🔗

She’s an expert at spouting bollox.

175836 Paul, replying to Paul, 16, #642 of 1967 🔗

Until she went off to university about a month ago my niece lived with my mum and dad,yesterday my parents received letters from NHS t and t saying my neice has tested positive at uni so they must also isolate for ten days.
My parents response,we don’t bloody think so !.

175853 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Paul, 1, #643 of 1967 🔗

Why do your parents have to self isolate if your niece doesn’t live with them?

175867 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to stefarm, 9, #644 of 1967 🔗

Yes,that’s exactly what we can’t make sense of,seems like trying to spread more fear,they’re wasting their time with my mum and dad,100 % sceptical from the beginning.

176019 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Paul, 3, #645 of 1967 🔗

seems like trying to spread more fear”

Got it in one. The top and bottom of government policy.

176736 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to stefarm, #646 of 1967 🔗

More proof they’re double counting student positive PCR results!

175844 Gavroche, replying to Gavroche, 20, #647 of 1967 🔗

Many commentators on this site have expended much energy to demonstrate, often very convincingly, the extent to which fears of an imminent second wave are either grossly exaggerated or entirely unfounded.

There is, however, another potential line of attack that this approach, although in itself vitally important, risks overlooking. The likes of Whitty and Vallance claim to have known from as early as March that there would be a second wave this winter. If they did know this, the obvious question to ask is why have they done nothing effective to ensure that this so-called second wave could be dealt with without recourse to further lockdowns and without closing the NHS to any treatments other than those for Covid. After all, they had c.6 months to do this. In other words, if we take Whitty, Vallance, et al at their word, then they would have to admit they have proved 100% incompetent and ineffective. Indeed, every time they now call for further restriction, they are implicitly admitting to that incompetence. Perhaps this is a further line of attack worth pursuing ….

175849 ▶▶ Robert Hunter, replying to Gavroche, 5, #648 of 1967 🔗

You could also argue that if they knew there would be a second wave, why delay it so it would coincide with the upcoming winter flu season when we are constantly told each year how “overwhelmed” the NHS is in normal times

175854 ▶▶ John P, replying to Gavroche, 1, #649 of 1967 🔗

“The likes of Whitty and Vallance claim to have known from as early as March that there would be a second wave this winter.”

Well, they can’t have known this.

The only way they could have known this is if they borrowed Neil Ferguson’s crystal ball. So far as I am aware that never left Imperial College …

I don’t mean to knock your comment, but the danger is that you might reinforce the idea that there is a second lockdown, when the evidence is very clear that there is not one.

176747 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to John P, #650 of 1967 🔗

Do you mean lockdown or wave?

My local area has been locked down for two months now.

Over the last 2 weeks, I’ve had 5 tradesmen come to my house on separate occasions but I’m not allowed to see my grandkids and hug my recently bereaved DiL.

175872 ▶▶ matt, replying to Gavroche, 7, #651 of 1967 🔗

In a sense, a second wave is a necessary outcome of a lockdown, if you believe that lockdowns work. The purpose of a lockdown in theory is to slow the rate at which the virus spreads through the population. You slow the transmission and so reduce the number of people infected, but the moment you relax the restrictions, the people who would have been infected without the lockdown are still going to get infected, so you get a second wave. Lockdown is a self perpetuating strategy.

176038 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to matt, #652 of 1967 🔗

Assuming lockdown achieves this…

176248 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Nick Rose, #653 of 1967 🔗

Like I say – if you believe lockdowns work.

175873 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Gavroche, 10, #654 of 1967 🔗

If they knew a second wave was coming in the autumn why did they decide to decommission the so called Nightingale hospitals? Surely the correct, responsible response to a coming second wave would have included increasing NHS capacity, not decreasing it?

175884 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #655 of 1967 🔗

It looks a bit too obvious when they would be empty.

175885 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Dan Clarke, #656 of 1967 🔗

It was the one time they realised they couldn’t have their cake and eat it. Although that could have been to do with Boris’ diet.

176005 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Gavroche, 3, #657 of 1967 🔗

Taking Whitty and Vallance ‘at their word’ is a bit like falling for one of those telephone scams.

176035 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Gavroche, 1, #658 of 1967 🔗

Well said

176740 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Gavroche, #659 of 1967 🔗

Nice one!

175847 Tommo, replying to Tommo, 16, #660 of 1967 🔗


A bit bored today (and avoiding some dull admin tasks), so I have just crunched some numbers from the ONS website.

Since there is so much noise around PCR tests, cases, hospitalisations, who has died with COVID and from COVID – it is ever more difficult to work out fact from fiction. As always, it seems the only reliable figure is the actual number of deaths from all causes.

So looking at the past 12 months – Oct 19 to Sep 20 (in England and Wales only), the death rate has increased from 0.89% of the population (five year average) to 0.99% (past 12 months).

So there has been an increase, although still unclear how much due to COVID and how much due to lockdown measures. But even if we accept (which I personally don’t) that all these extra deaths are COVID, then the facts are still indisputable. In the ‘greatest’ health threat we have ever faced, the death rate in the past 12 months in one of the worst hit countries is 0.1% higher than the five year average.

0.1% higher!

Now of course, the numbers are never presented like this in MSM. It is much more scary to say that there has been 50,000 excess deaths. Be scared! Wear a mask! Hide under your beds!


Number of deaths Oct 19-Sep 20 (England and Wales) = 588,566 / 59439840 (population size) x 100 = 0.99%

Number of deaths five year average (England and Wales) = 529,537 / 59439840 (population size) x 100 = 0.89%

Here’s my imaginary conversation with a lockdown fanatic…

Me: In this terrible, terrible healthcare emergency, how many people have died in the past 12 months?

Fanatic: 50% of the population?

Me: No, don’t be silly – that would be a proper healthcare emergency.

Fanatic: 25% of the population?

Me: No.

Fanatic: 10% of the population?

Me: No.

Fanatic: Surely 5%?

Me: No.

Fanatic: 2.5%?

Me: No.

Fanatic: 1.5%?

Me: No.

Fanatic: Maybe 1%?

Me: Yes very close. The number is 0.99%.

Fanatic: Oh, that’s not very high. How many people normally die each year?

Me: 0.89%

Fanatic: Oh, it’s not much of a healthcare emergency then is it?

Me: No.

175889 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Tommo, 7, #661 of 1967 🔗

But here is how that conversation usually ends, in real life:

Fanatic: Maybe 1%?

Me: Yes very close. The number is 0.99%.

Fanatic:  How many people normally die each year?

Me: 0.89%

Fanatic: There you are you see. All those people died because selfish uncaring people like you didn’t follow the rules properly, and because the government didn’t lock down quickly enough and hard enough. And if we hadn’t locked down, hundreds of thousands more people would have died.

[Smugly pulls mask back up and hurries off to report you for some breach of “social distancing” dictats.]

175911 ▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Mark, 7, #662 of 1967 🔗

I’m sure part of this issue is that people are now convinced mainly by the medical profession that everyone will live until they’re 100 and anyone dying at young ages shouldn’t be allowed. People are very divorced from death nowadays sadly. And it’s a fact of life!

176095 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Mark, 1, #663 of 1967 🔗

Well observed and sadly so true.

175946 ▶▶ Alan P, replying to Tommo, 2, #664 of 1967 🔗

Your population needs adjusting for a 5 year average. This will increase your 0.89% so the difference is less than you’ve calculated. So excess deaths are not as worse. Backs up your argument even more!

175955 ▶▶▶ Tommo, replying to Alan P, #665 of 1967 🔗

Agreed. I thought about adjusting for population size, but couldn’t avoid those admin tasks any longer!

175999 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tommo, 6, #666 of 1967 🔗

it seems the only reliable figure is the actual number of deaths from all causes”

You’re absolutely right. It became obvious to me back in April when I started sniffing out the fictions surrounding this virus. At that time, the main reason foocused around the absolute dog’s dinner that had been made of death registrations (Deliberately?).

It’s been clear since then that there are no reliable figures to detail actual Covid deaths, and the sources of inaccuracy have become greater.

In the end, I used a 27-year period of mortality to put things into the perspective that was notably lacking from government and the MSM. I had found that a 5-10 year period was too short, since we have been going through an unusual time of low mortality.

But the overall conclusions are the same as yours :

Overall mortality shows NO ‘unprecedented event, even taking into account the April spike — just a year of moderately high mortality. This is mitigated even further when you look at the last two seasons together, where the balancing factor of low mortality season + high mortality season shows an overll level at the quarter-century average.(All population adjusted).

Since the end of the gomperz curve of April spike, mortality has been bumping along, broadly in line with the last few years, at the bottom of the range of the 27-year mortality range.

All else, as Farr said, is ‘inference’ – or, given the current climate – utter bullshit.

176087 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to RickH, 1, #667 of 1967 🔗

“ it seems the only reliable figure is the actual number of deaths from all causes”

Reliable in what sense? I would say it’s true only if all else is equal.

If there’s a spike in deaths at the same time as a major upheaval of society, including a supposed pandemic but also the emptying of hospitals, mass unemployment, fear, the erosion of people’s hope, what does the all-causes deaths figure tell you? It certainly doesn’t tell you anything about the supposed pandemic.

176010 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Tommo, 2, #668 of 1967 🔗

I said this a while back. That even with the best intentions of buggering up the health of people by all the measures taken, the total deaths are still not beyond normal variation.
However the effects of these measures in terms of buggering the economy and then lives as a result. That’s a lot larger and yet to come. Hence how it’s being ignored.

176033 ▶▶ Jakehadlee, replying to Tommo, 5, #669 of 1967 🔗

This is the point I try to get across to lockdown supporters. Even if every single one of the 42k who died was fit and healthy and genuinely died only of Covid, it would still not be nearly enough to justify lockdowns.

It’s fewer than some flu years, and even if it doubled I still don’t think it would justify lockdowns.

The ridiculous prediction of 500,000 might have done – but even that I don’t think would have been worth the long term damage, although I’d probably understand it more.

But for a very small number of dead, most of whom would have died anyway, the over-reaction is just extraordinary.

176115 ▶▶ Andrew, replying to Tommo, #670 of 1967 🔗

Not sure about your maths, surely the % increase is .99/.89 = 11.24%

176130 ▶▶▶ Tommo, replying to Andrew, 2, #671 of 1967 🔗

Yes, that would be the % increase. But the difference between 0.99% and 0.89% is 0.1%. When looking at a very small number, a percentage increase isn’t always that useful. For example an increase from 1 person to 2 people is a massive 100% increase. But in reality it is only 1 more person.

176154 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Tommo, 1, #672 of 1967 🔗

0.99% is 0.1 *percentage points* higher than 0.89%, but is actually an increase of about 11% (roughly a ninth). Still no big deal when compared to a five year average, as you say.

175851 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 3, #673 of 1967 🔗

The major question to which sceptical politicians now require a definitive answer is ‘What cycle threshold is NHS England using to declare a covid 19 ‘positive’ result?

If the threshold is still 40 cycles, large numbers of individuals with ‘the common cold’ symptoms will be tested, found positive, presenting with covid 19 symptoms but simply have a rhinovirus infection common at this time of the year.

Is there really no-one in NHS England who can get a grip of this nonsense.

‘As any fule kno’ the cycle threshold should be set at highest 35…

‘A high CT value (e.g. > 35) as a result in E-gene RT-PCR could be due to E-gene positive control contamination of reagents.’

‘Positive SARS-CoV-2 specimens have typically high viral loads, and if CT values are high, e.g. > 35, repeated testing should be considered; specimens should be re-tested if contamination is suspected.’


175951 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #674 of 1967 🔗

That question of getting the 40-45 cycle numbers explicitly asked and answered is critical.
I cannot off hand recall the official evidence for this numbe is being used.

176109 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Basics, 2, #675 of 1967 🔗

It’s in the NHS England PCR test standard operating procedures for March

175973 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #677 of 1967 🔗

I think 35 is too high a threshold.

176375 ▶▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to RickH, 1, #678 of 1967 🔗

Maybe around this point they should be retesting their next day. At the very least they should telling the patient and their Doctor how many cycles it took as an indicator of viral load.

176767 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RickH, #679 of 1967 🔗

I agree. 30 should be plenty to see if someone’s infectious.

175890 Under The Bridge, replying to Under The Bridge, 1, #680 of 1967 🔗

Interesting point about the confirmation of vitamin D’s long-known effectiveness for boosting immunity: what are Dr Fauci’s recommendations for us?

  • Wear a mask outside of home
  • Practice physical distancing
  • Avoid crowds
  • Spend time outdoors whenever possible
  • Practice good hand hygiene
  • Stay away from bars

What does Dr Fauci do for himself? Good question! While we can rely on him to tout the symbolic usefulness of masks, as he describes it, to the most digested of public media, he chose a live Instagram interview with an actress to declare what he does for himself. As reported on MSN:

“If you’re deficient in vitamin D, that does have an impact on your susceptibility to infection. I would not mind recommending, and I do it myself, taking vitamin D supplements, The other vitamin that people take is vitamin C because it’s a good antioxidant, so if people want to take a gram or so of vitamin C, that would be fine.”

MSN then mistakenly said, “ There’s a large body of research supporting Fauci’s recommendations.”

Ah, but Dr Fauci didn’t actually recommend it, did he? He said he wouldn’t MIND recommending it for the rest of us. But he doesn’t. Aside from his recommenations of antisocial behavior and washing the boogers off our hands, when it comes to foreign substances in our bodies, he’d rather us wait for a vaccine to possibly create an inferior artificial immunity rather than see us use a natural immune booster that can improve our immunities against any number of health problems.

I also appreciate ever so deeply that His Greatness gave us permission to take vitamin C as well! I had read a lot about vitamin C’s usefulness, so I’m grateful for his permission to take it, despite the fact that I feel terribly guilty that the money that I spend on it won’t go into the pockets of his pharmaceutical friends. Perhaps I’ll make a donation to Pfizer each time I buy a bottle.

175939 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Under The Bridge, 5, #681 of 1967 🔗

I read up on the Vaccine Centre based st the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine (has strong links to the Ferguson-Edmunds gang at Imperial who are affiliated with the Centre). The Centre is quite explicit in wanting to replace natural immunuty entirely and create vaccines for each and every disease which will be administered to the whole population of the globe!! It is an insane project that will likely lead to an explosion of ill health as our immune systems degenerate as a consequence.

175964 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to OKUK, 5, #682 of 1967 🔗

Many of these academics have really sold their souls to the devil. Some seem to have unhealthy obsessions with aspects of Transhumanism and Eugenics others just write what their paymasters require. Unfortunately these people have the ear of the politicians worldwide via the UN.

176024 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to OKUK, 2, #683 of 1967 🔗

Don’t forget that there are a lot of scientists with a God complex, most pronounced in the medical sector. They only see us as a form of culture in a petri dish.

176496 ▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to OKUK, #684 of 1967 🔗

I’ve got a vague recollection that Arthur C Clarke wrote about such a thing in one of his books; the Rama series maybe? Whereby the species that he was describing had dicked about with its immune system so much through genetic engineering that it essentially became a monoculture that when the “big one” came it was wiped out because there was no diversity in its biology.

176558 ▶▶▶ Under The Bridge, replying to OKUK, #685 of 1967 🔗

Madness! And if we object to their hijacking of our bodies and choices, we’re just, as the Vaccine Confidence Project believes, falling for “post truth” lies.

175903 Darryl, replying to Darryl, 16, #686 of 1967 🔗

I wonder if Boris, Patel and Khan will set the Territorial Support Group on peaceful protestors for a fourth week in a row? Nothing like giving people a beating to keep them safe.
Meetup & March Meet Piers Corbyn at Speaker’s Corner, where free speech was until now celebrated. March for free speech, free assembly, and freedom from lockdowns and police brutality.
Speaker’s Corner, Hyde Park, London Saturday 10 October, 12pm

175971 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Darryl, 3, #687 of 1967 🔗

I’d put money on it.

175986 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to leggy, 3, #688 of 1967 🔗

There are always endless funds to waste on policing non-establishment backed causes which unite rather than divide sections of society. Noticed how the establishment backed causes have stopped protesting per government instructions?

There must have been around 50 police used to break up a peaceful Julian Assange protest of around 30 last weekend – so that must also be a non-approved cause.

176037 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Darryl, #689 of 1967 🔗

Is there music at these events or is that banned? 🙄

176097 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #690 of 1967 🔗

I think there has been music at some previous events but obviously that is now banned. Also having a sound system has been banned, megaphones seem to have been banned but have been tolerated. I would imaging speaking at Speakers Corner is technically banned – but I assume some sort of temporary permission must have been gained from the City Hall dictator.

It’s great living in a free western democracy.

175924 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #691 of 1967 🔗

Sky News report on the plot to kidnap the governer of Michigan.

Calling the plotters – Coronavirus Sceptics…

175937 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #692 of 1967 🔗

How many signals do peoole need to see that the bastards in all of this are really panicked. We are doing well.

I have decided that the plotting Guy ‘coronovirus’ Fawkes are made up intelligence entities bases on “Calling the plotters – Coronavirus Sceptics…”. Have they been found to have links to Russia yet?

175997 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #693 of 1967 🔗

I would be very sceptical of the claims being made, it ticks too many boxes for the establishment. It looks suspiciously like propaganda or a group infiltrated by agents.

The real power in the US clearly wants lockdowns to continue, mandatory vaccinations and to disarm the population. It is like a war has been declared by the elite technocrats and media on ordinary citizens.

175926 Cheezilla, 26, #694 of 1967 🔗

Visit from electrician this morning. He turned out to be a confirmed sceptic. Knows it’s a load of bs, doesn’t know anyone who’s had it, knows it’s nothing to do with a virus, but is about control. Thinks it’s about going cashless etc.
I told him about the Chinese and the “health” passports.

A very encouraging morning!

175930 Bartleby, replying to Bartleby, 58, #695 of 1967 🔗

It hit me this morning that I really miss some spontaneity in my life. Simple things like having a chat with someone you haven’t seen in a while at work because you run into them – now unless you’re actually engaged and working together and on a call, you don’t have those chance encounters and so much of that social side has just been ripped away.

And likewise with thinking, let’s head out and go for a meal or a drink. Maybe the restrictions are easier for those who are serial planners and time-schedulers?

There’s very little spontaneous contact any more. I feel like a robot or a character in a computer game with little autonomy, like a Sim, where other people are just controlling my life.

In the grand scheme of how people are suffering under the lockdown, a lack of spontaneity is really not that important, but it does strike me that so much of what made me feel human and alive, travelling, meeting people, laughing and so much more, has been taken away and I don’t see it coming back anytime quickly with the arrogant, joyless and puritanical zealots shaping our society.

175953 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Bartleby, 9, #696 of 1967 🔗

Completely agree – it’s one of the things I hate the most about what is being done to us.

175957 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Bartleby, 2, #697 of 1967 🔗

We have said this – we go to a NT park that we dont have to book for so that we can feel like we are doing something spontaneous

175958 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Bartleby, 11, #698 of 1967 🔗

In the grand scheme of how people are suffering under the lockdown, a lack of spontaneity is really not that important,”

You answer your own implicit question : it’s all vitally important if ‘Life’ is more than breathing, eating and excreting.

176065 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to RickH, 1, #699 of 1967 🔗

Too right Bono, i agree with this

176192 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Biker, #700 of 1967 🔗

Among the depressing lockdown stories this morning, I was even more depressed to read that Radio 2 listeners had voted The Joshua Tree the best album of the 1980s. Can’t stand it.

Does Fay Fife live up near you?

176197 ▶▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to TJN, 2, #701 of 1967 🔗

As Bono would say:- There’s more to loife dan dis.

176211 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Achilles, 1, #702 of 1967 🔗

I’ve never understood the appeal of U2 – John Peel was quite right about them. If I recall correctly, when they started out they sent in tapes to Peel asking to do a session, but he turned them down and never changed his opinion of them.

176067 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to RickH, 1, #703 of 1967 🔗

As South Park puts it “existencing”.

176106 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to RickH, 8, #704 of 1967 🔗

Life is now supposed to entirely be defined as the avoidance of death

176041 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Bartleby, 15, #705 of 1967 🔗

I feel like a robot or a character in a computer game with little autonomy, like a Sim, where other people are just controlling my life.

I would suggest that every single one of the Covid regulations has been specifically designed to achieve this end.

Weaken, sicken, immiserate, impoverish, separate, divide, isolate, disorient, demotivate, demoralise, dehumanise, despiritualise, degrade, humiliate, oppress, transform and ultimately kill.

176076 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Bartleby, 15, #706 of 1967 🔗

Totally agree – it’s so sad how much of what makes life worth living has been stripped away. What’s the point of ‘saving lives’ if those lives are then so bland?

I consider myself a serial planner, but I actually find the restrictions very hard to deal with as a result because I CAN’T plan anything – it’ll just be banned a week or so later. It’s horrendous, I like having things to look forward to, they give us meaning and anchoring in life so having it all ripped away is not only distressing but also disorientating; rather than a calendar punctuated by familiar rituals, I just see indefinite restrictions with no light at the end of the tunnel.

176102 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Poppy, 3, #707 of 1967 🔗

Yes Poppy – this is me to a tee! I used to plan our trips and holidays a year in advance and we have always had lots to look forward to. We are supposed to be going away to a uk cottage at half term and we can’t even look forward to that because we dont know if we will be allowed to go. I hate the lack of control we have over our own lives.

176362 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Bartleby, #708 of 1967 🔗

I moved to home working 4 years ago and that isolation is guaranteed. I haven’t made any new friends through work since and those that I did have are dwindling as they go elsewhere. It suits me as my focus is the family and I have to work harder to stay in touch with the friends.

It’s a balancing act. I don’t know if I have it rightt but it certainly gives me maximum time with the kids.

175970 The Spingler, replying to The Spingler, 1, #709 of 1967 🔗

Has anyone seen the latest download figures for the NHS track and trace app?

175980 ▶▶ l835, replying to The Spingler, 2, #710 of 1967 🔗

Covid1984 app must be getting more!

176045 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to The Spingler, #711 of 1967 🔗

can’t find it now but the DM quoted figures earlier that roughly 5% identified covid contact in a hospitality setting and 70% in a home setting. Hopefully someone will be able to corroborate this.

175972 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 34, #712 of 1967 🔗

Great to read about the court case in Tulsa due to the problems caused by mask wearing. My ex daughter in law has just come out of hospital after being diagnosed with bacterial pneumonia, which can only have come from mask wearing, as she will definitely have been a zealot.

Been meeting fellow conspirators today:

  1. A visit to the hairdresser. She now has to wear a mask and visor and can’t breathe. I gave her the usual spiel-exemption cards, rubbish PCR tests etc. She said that so many of her elderly clients are terrified. She thanked me for educating her as she refuses to watch the news any more and didn’t know anything about anything, but thinks it’s all ridiculous anyway.
  2. Lady going into ASDA this morning, hadn’t got a mask so was given a paper one by the door marshall. We chatted about the uselessness of them and she actually mentioned the infections she could catch just by breathing out into her mask.
  3. In another shop, we spotted two ladies wearing lanyards but no masks. OH asked where the lanyards were from and were told e-bay. They both said they weren’t really exempt (although one had asthma, so was actually exempt) but that, in their words, they couldn’t give a shit. They said that the whole thing had been a load of rubbish.

This morning definitely put a spring in my step. There are more of us out there than we think.

176124 ▶▶ DomW, replying to Margaret, 3, #713 of 1967 🔗

Yep. On the bus yesterday I gave one of my self-printed and laminated exemption cards, which have a link to nomasks.info on the back, to someone who was only wearing his because he didnt want to pay the fine. His muzzle came off and stayed off for the rest of his journey 🙂

175995 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 6, #714 of 1967 🔗

Here’s a Freudian slip… it’s a very short clip. Well worth a watch.


176013 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Country Mumkin, 4, #715 of 1967 🔗

Yes interesting they usually use the code words ‘new normal’ or ‘Great Reset’. It’s been blindingly obvious with all the politicians worldwide virtually saying the same thing something very underhand is going on.

176034 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Darryl, 2, #716 of 1967 🔗

Gotta love the green traffic light indication of normal (masked, distanced, 6 people)

176031 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #717 of 1967 🔗

That’s a very good spot, Ceriain. Perhaps you should e mail it to Mike Graham at Talk Radio. He might use that.

176061 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Country Mumkin, #718 of 1967 🔗

Looks at the woman’s face behind him on stage.

I don’t know sign language, but I’d love to know what that other lady signed too!

176066 ▶▶ nat, replying to Country Mumkin, 2, #719 of 1967 🔗

And our homes are dangerous places ! We are not safe anywhere – we should be very afraid.

176269 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to nat, #720 of 1967 🔗

Well you know if it’s happening in Australia, the UK is only about 4-6 weeks behind the 2nd wave of moronic propaganda.

176003 Richard O, replying to Richard O, 3, #721 of 1967 🔗

These quotes from the Sun article provided by Toby above the line tell us all we need to know about the direction of travel (with my emphasis):

The NHS is gearing up for a major roll out of a Covid jab from next month – with five mass vaccination centres ready before Christmas .

An enormous amount of planning and preparation has already taken place including ensuring we have adequate provision, transport, PPE and logistical expertise.

We are working closely with the NHS and we will use the military in the planning of logistics as necessary, as they have already gone to great lengths to successfully support our operational efforts.

176047 ▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to Richard O, 2, #722 of 1967 🔗

This isn’t as ominous as it sounds. Our military have a great reputation for this sort of thing around the world. In fact I’m pleased they’re being considered, taking more weight off the NHS dancers for when the tide of stage 4/5 cancers start coming in!

176060 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 2, #723 of 1967 🔗

Take a step back though. That the military are being considered for medical intervention on a mass scale for anything, let alone a completely unnecessary (and deeply unsettling) mass vaccination plan, is in and of itself completely insane.

We must not allow this to be normalised.

176084 ▶▶▶▶ Jules, replying to Richard O, 2, #724 of 1967 🔗

The SS were ace organisers.

176103 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Jules, 2, #725 of 1967 🔗

Exactly my thinking. And the mentality behind that dreadful organisation is really not that far from the psychopaths currently running the show.

176129 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jules, replying to Richard O, 1, #726 of 1967 🔗

That Mr Himmler would have had all this sorted by now!

176120 ▶▶▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to Richard O, 3, #727 of 1967 🔗

Totally agree there! It’s is pointless. It will be virtually untested. We’ll have nothing to do with it!

176118 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Richard O, 6, #728 of 1967 🔗

Great so PPE clad nurses in Santa hats will be giving out your injectable “Xmas presents” in special “grottoes” in Tesco’s the car parks all over the country.

Ho Ho Ho

176174 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Two-Six, 1, #729 of 1967 🔗

Merry Vaxxmas!

176203 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Richard O, #730 of 1967 🔗

They can stick their vaccine but not in me!

176018 Ceriain, replying to Ceriain, 2, #731 of 1967 🔗

I’m really angry about how the government is trying to spin and misrepresent what the scientists supporting the GB Declaration are suggesting. GB Declaration scientists are not suggesting the elderly and the infirm are “locked away”, as the government are spinning; yet that is exactly what the government’s plan was in March/April.

Yesterday, I posted these two texts I received from the government earlier this year.

This is the text (which I still have on my phone) that UK Gov sent me on the 24th of March this year. (My bold)

GOV.UK ALERT CORONAVIRUS New rules in force now: you must stay at home .
More info & exemptions at gov.uk/coronavirusStay at home. Protect
the NHS. Save lives.

This is the next text (which I also still have on my phone) that UK Gov sent me on the 3rd of April this year.

NHS Coronavirus Service: As someone who is at high risk of severe illness if you catch Coronavirus, please remain at home for a minimum of 12 weeks unless a healthcare professional suggests otherwise . Support is available for you if you need it. Please complete this short form to tell us whether you need this support or not:www.gov.uk/coronavirus-extremely-vulnerable.If you cannot sign up on the website, you can call us on 0800 028 8327. Your response will help us to support those who need it most. If you have already been in touch there is no need to do so again.

Blair and Campbell would be proud of Boris, et al.

176025 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Ceriain, 4, #732 of 1967 🔗

The GB declaration is clear that the elderly should be cared-for by those who have previously been infected.


176479 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Tom Blackburn, #733 of 1967 🔗

Are you north of 60?
I am and don’t want to be ‘cared for’, nor do I need it.

176164 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Ceriain, 3, #734 of 1967 🔗

And until quite recently they were happily talking about locking them up again for the winter.

Sorry, I mean “shielding” them. Aren’t they kind.

176468 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Ceriain, 1, #735 of 1967 🔗

‘Twas always my one concern about the GBD.

That the Govt would take the shielding of the vulnerable too literally, by imposing indefinite self-isolation of anyone over 60.
And that’s the valuable point made by Lord Sumption. He would go to the pub or the theatre right now, because he values liberty and choice over imposition.


176023 TJN, replying to TJN, #736 of 1967 🔗

Techical question: can anyone give a proper definition for the term ‘aerosols’ as used when discussing spreading mechanisms for covid?

Ta in advance.

176032 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to TJN, #737 of 1967 🔗

Just think of an air freshener spray. When you use one the smell hangs in the air. When you walk into it you can smell it even after a period of time has passed.

176111 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Nobody2020, #738 of 1967 🔗

thats more about the molecular diffusion of the volatile oils and stuff isn’t it? Like a lavender fart spreading out. Gasseous diffusion.

176190 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Nobody2020, #739 of 1967 🔗

Thanks – so it’s akin to cigarette smoke hanging in the air? So when they say aerosols from masks it’s correct to imagine cigarette smoke diffusing out and filling the room?

As with ‘cases’ and ‘exponential’, I think it’s important to get these terms correct.

176253 ▶▶ James Bertram, replying to TJN, #740 of 1967 🔗

a proper definition for the term ‘aer-sols’ – Fatso and Wankcock.

176415 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to James Bertram, #741 of 1967 🔗

Hadn’t thought of it like that – obvious now you say.

176046 Jules, replying to Jules, #742 of 1967 🔗

According to the Nazi Government’s interpretation of the data, Nottingham is now the place where you are most likely to meet your doom. That would be a shame. Anyone from Nottingham who can tell me if 2-1 women to men ratio still holds there? Or was that always apocryphal?

176127 ▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Jules, 5, #743 of 1967 🔗

It was always a myth and a big proportion let themselves go to seed, so don’t come for the women and even less for the hard-left council. You will be fine coming though, both Universities have held mass fake testing regimes on compliant students, egged on by a council keen to get on the national tv. Very few of these positive tests have led to any kind of illness. Not a fact we get told. 9 pages of local rag propaganda yesterday, with all the local shire councils wanting a piece of the doom.

We are led by idiots consumed by fear, from Johnson/Whitty down to parish council. Not fit for any decision making power.

176172 ▶▶▶ Jules, replying to nottingham69, #744 of 1967 🔗

Thanks. Good luck to all in Nottingham!

176195 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to nottingham69, #745 of 1967 🔗

I think that’s the point isn’t. After Oxford hasn’t Nottingham got the largest proportion of under 30s in the country because of the universities? So it’s no surprise.

176399 ▶▶▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Achilles, #746 of 1967 🔗

That is right and the gullible sheep blame the student’s for this not the universities. Of course the Universities are both funded by Billy.

176354 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Jules, 1, #747 of 1967 🔗

Nottingham, twinned with Wuhan.

176056 Neil Hartley, replying to Neil Hartley, 4, #748 of 1967 🔗

Anyone else see David Nabarro the head Covid honcho at the WHO on Spectator TV last week. Several times he categorically stated that lockdowns do not work. Success in Taiwan, Vietnam etc was largely due to testing and tracing, social distancing, hygiene and masks (yes, he really said that last bit unfortunately).

176123 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Neil Hartley, 2, #749 of 1967 🔗

I also think that it was a pity he was not appointed as Chief of WHO instead of the puppet of China which was put in place.He was to be appointed but blocked by China.Always a sense that he was not 100% aboard the WHO bandwagon as regards lockdowns.He sometimes says sensible things but can’t diverge too far from the accepted policy

176058 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 5, #750 of 1967 🔗

Drakeford turns to Satan to save Wales from Covid hell:

“First Minister Mark Drakeford warns everyone in Wales will have to make sacrifices. … Mr Drakeford said that the sacrifices would be necessary as the number infected with coronavirus grew.”

176072 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Mr Dee, 6, #751 of 1967 🔗

Like we haven’t sacrificed enough already. Not enough for our sociopathic leadership obviously.

176070 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 27, #752 of 1967 🔗

Unbelievable that I (an old lefty who hates populism: leaving the EU,The Conservative victory last December and was in despair at Trumpism in the USA), rejoices at the news that the Trump administration is backing the Great Barrington declaration.
The world turned upside down, INDEED.

176079 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #753 of 1967 🔗

Not exactly upside-down. It’s just got so bad that even Trump can get something right when the narrative has become so divorced from reality.

176116 ▶▶▶ nottingham69, replying to RickH, 7, #754 of 1967 🔗

Trump has got plenty right. No new wars, pulling out of green fantasy accord to start.

176141 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to nottingham69, 5, #755 of 1967 🔗

Quite so: it is just his delivery style that riles Lefties. He is, after all, hardly a traditional Rightie.

176153 ▶▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to nottingham69, 4, #756 of 1967 🔗

Opposes blm/ rejects identity politics/ backs the police would be enough for me to vote him over the other mug.

176119 ▶▶ Danny, replying to Fingerache Philip., 12, #757 of 1967 🔗

Agree. Prior to the lockdown I largely filtered my daily news through the Guardian, albeit with reservations, and passionately defended the BBC as a bastion of publicly funded media. Voted for Corbyn, to remain in the EU, and whilst I have never been on board with the anti-Trump vitriol, believing his policies no worse than previous administrations, I nevertheless found him repellant. Now….. much of my news has come through The Telegraph and even the Mail, Starmer is a joke, and we have to rely on Trump for good news and sanity regarding Corona.

176183 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Danny, 9, #758 of 1967 🔗

If you go with the assumption that around 90% of what’s been said about Trump by the legacy media has been wrong, if not outright lies, you won’t be far off.

I barely go to the Telegraph, or the Mail. Both are schizophrenic on their coverage. I get most of my news from YouTube or sites like this.

I used to be a Labour supporter and a leftie, but haven’t been one for some years. I don’t like being told what to do, how to live my life, what I can and can’t say, and that authoritarian tendency has mainly come from the left. Unfortunately, right now, Boris and Co. have joined them. Trump hasn’t, which is why they hate him.

176198 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Danny, 1, #759 of 1967 🔗

Don’t despair, it sounds as if you grew up! 😉

176485 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Danny, #760 of 1967 🔗

passionately defended the BBC …

You know we’re going to stick that on your headstone, don’t you Danny ?

176349 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Fingerache Philip., #761 of 1967 🔗

If you listen back to his Davos and UN speeches now it’s like Wow.

He could be speaking directly to us on here.

176071 Neil Hartley, replying to Neil Hartley, 9, #762 of 1967 🔗

Nadine Dorries says that focused protection is not possible. Yet it was her government that seeded Covid-19 in care homes leading to the deaths of tens of thousands of old people. I would suggest that not seeding the disease in care homes would have provided ‘focused protection’.

176242 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to Neil Hartley, 1, #763 of 1967 🔗

I think she has a point. People in care homes need close up, hands on care, usually from agency workers who move around. Protecting them by not doing these things would be close to neglect. I think we should just accept that, sadly, viruses kill people and there’s not much ew can reasonably do about it.

176290 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Neil Hartley, #764 of 1967 🔗

Wasn’t it the same Government that sent out millions of shielding letters to the ‘vunerable’ asking them to isolate for 12 weeks? Someone yesterday shared the original texts received.

One solution for the care homes I thought of:

Offer significant pay rise/incentive to the care workers to either live in or stay in hotels/isolate for a period. Would cost a whole lot less than other measures in place whilst rewarding those prepared to do so.

176074 Alan P, replying to Alan P, 1, #765 of 1967 🔗

Did anyone here see an advert on itv3 about protecting pangolins?

why on earth was that aired? Never seen any hint of them before. What’s that all about?

176080 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Alan P, 3, #766 of 1967 🔗

It was probably in response to the South Park pandemic special.

176083 ▶▶▶ Alan P, replying to AidanR, 1, #767 of 1967 🔗

Oh right!

I’ll wait for the Bat one then….!

176481 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to AidanR, #768 of 1967 🔗

Hee hee. That was my first thought too. 🙂

176208 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Alan P, #769 of 1967 🔗

They care more about pangolins than humans currently being denied essential medical care and fulfilling lives.

176891 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Ewan Duffy, #770 of 1967 🔗

Whatever happened to the zoonosis theory ,out of the wet markets?

176898 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to David Grimbleby, #771 of 1967 🔗

That was earlier in the storyline. All forgotten now.

176086 chaos, replying to chaos, 1, #772 of 1967 🔗

Latest you.gov poll has conservatives ahead of labour. I know both parties are shit. But it seems to me you.gov is easily manipulated from inside and outside.

176114 ▶▶ nottingham69, replying to chaos, 6, #773 of 1967 🔗

Yougov is fake polls

176089 PompeyJunglist, replying to PompeyJunglist, 13, #774 of 1967 🔗

This is who I’m reminded of when I see people wandering around outside with masks on

176139 ▶▶ IanE, replying to PompeyJunglist, 1, #775 of 1967 🔗

Nah – that looks quite cute.

176574 ▶▶▶ TT, replying to IanE, #776 of 1967 🔗

And to be fair to Linus, note that he at least realised it was just for comfort and never expected his blanket to keep him safe from The Virus !
Plus he probably matured out of it eventually, as per the normal path of evolution…

176169 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to PompeyJunglist, 3, #777 of 1967 🔗

I remember more than 60 years ago,a neighbour’s daughter who was around 3 who used to carry a piece of cloth around with her that she called her “Shush.”
I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the “Maskateer” collaborators have “pet” names for their face nappies.

176687 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Fingerache Philip., #778 of 1967 🔗

Though I don’t really remember, I was told that I carried about a piece of blanket which I called my bawbaw. Eventually my older brother told me to throw it away, and I accepted the instruction from him whereas I might have objected if my mum had told me.

176091 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 1, #779 of 1967 🔗
176110 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to p02099003, 2, #780 of 1967 🔗

And the award for most used word in this story goes to… ‘estimates’. Crashing the economy and crushing the people, based on guesses.

176092 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 15, #781 of 1967 🔗

No one can live in isolation.

Umm… So… No one can live in isolation…. therefore we must place everyone in isolation. Do these people even think before words come out of their mouths? Who put these idiots in charge? Britain, for crying out loud, find yourself better leaders.

176128 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 3, #782 of 1967 🔗

Inversion is the key here. Invert any statement made by anyone in “authority” to find the truth of what is being said.

So the translation of the above is: “ Everyone will live in isolation “.

176395 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 2, #783 of 1967 🔗

It’s never specified in Children of Men (great film, better book) why there are no more babies anymore…but perhaps this is it! We only have about one 30year ish generation of isolation before we’d become extinct.

176093 Brian D, 6, #784 of 1967 🔗

Superb viral control going on in the photo of the child having a swab… the man is holding her bacteria/virus soaked rag over her eyes… 🤦‍♂️

176101 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 5, #785 of 1967 🔗

The latest from the BID. My question, why the hell choose a photo with the town looking completely dead:


And another point, pass a bloody bucket!

176121 ▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to kh1485, 3, #786 of 1967 🔗

And how many people does your BID employ? All at public sector salary levels, too, I expect.

We have a BID here, but it’s a sort of ‘compromise BID’. When retailers and traders first got to vote, the BID-pushers were so confident they’d get their gravy train that they had crates of champagne ready to pop. So when our returning officer read out the result, a resounding NO, their mouths dropped through the floor. Oh how we lol’d and rofl’d. So they had to finagle the second vote, and it then got through.

176136 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Miss Owl, 2, #787 of 1967 🔗

There’s a BID admin woman who spouts the usual management-speak crap (it’s like Gordon Brittas on speed). And loads of others (not sure if paid ….) who are just on an ego trip!

Pity yours got through on the second vote – my sympathies.

176145 ▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 3, #788 of 1967 🔗

I’ve added a ha-ha emoticon to the two likes just to spoil it !.
It looks like ‘we’ve made SW safe by exterminating all of the people’.

176152 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 1, #789 of 1967 🔗

Oh fab, thanks Paul. 😉

176162 ▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 1, #790 of 1967 🔗

I left them a comment aswell.

176168 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, #791 of 1967 🔗


176173 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 2, #792 of 1967 🔗

I think I’ve got a new facebook page to troll,I think I might adopt the persona of a very worried covid bedwetter,time to waste a bit of BID’s time.

176180 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Paul, 2, #793 of 1967 🔗

Yes! Currently one of my fave pastimes!

176181 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 1, #794 of 1967 🔗

Brilliant! I am just imagining the BID chairwoman’s goosed-dowager duchess look right now!

Most of the time, the comments are just sickeningly banal and asinine with loads of heart emojis, so this’ll really shock them!

176186 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 1, #795 of 1967 🔗

I hope so,they might look at my profile and see I’m from Lincolnshire but I think I’ve got some relatives in your area now who I want to visit but I’m worried the town doesn’t look safe enough.I don’t want to give them any more stupid ideas though !.

176104 chaos, replying to chaos, 8, #796 of 1967 🔗

I would be onboard with the WEF’s Great Green Reset if Greta and Carrie had bigger tits.

176126 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to chaos, #797 of 1967 🔗

I wouldn’t.

176602 ▶▶▶ TT, replying to Lms23, #798 of 1967 🔗

Not an option if they want to keep pandering to the prepubescent fantasies of the elite pervs …

176133 ▶▶ leggy, replying to chaos, #799 of 1967 🔗

That actually made me laugh out loud.

176134 ▶▶ IanE, replying to chaos, #800 of 1967 🔗

Well, I should at least hold out for a nice smile plus a winning personality plus an ounce or two of humanity – but that’s just me (holding out that is; for the rest you would have to ask the wife!).

176250 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to IanE, #801 of 1967 🔗

Femdom has its appeal but only when done by Eva Green.

176135 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to chaos, 5, #802 of 1967 🔗

Saint Greta Funberg looks like she was grown in a laboratory. No way that thing is 17 years old.

176143 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Richard O, 2, #803 of 1967 🔗

probably from the mould from a week old mask

176159 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Richard O, 2, #804 of 1967 🔗

It’s a boy masquerading as a girl.

176163 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to stefarm, 4, #805 of 1967 🔗

How dare you!

176275 ▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Richard O, #806 of 1967 🔗

Tis troo

176243 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to chaos, #807 of 1967 🔗

I wouldn’t climb over either of them to get to you.

176144 John Galt, replying to John Galt, 4, #808 of 1967 🔗

Among adults hospitalized with flu during recent flu seasons, heart disease was one of the most commonly-occurring chronic conditions—about half of adults hospitalized with flu that season had heart disease. Studies have shown that flu illness is associated with an increase of heart attacks and stroke. A 2018 study found that the risk of heart attack was 6 times higher within a week of confirmed flu infection. These findings were most pronounced for older adults and those experiencing their first heart attack. Additionally, a 2020 study that looked at more than 80,000 U.S. adults hospitalized with flu over eight flu seasons (2010-11 through 2017-18) found that sudden, serious heart complications were common and occurred in one out of every eight patients (~12% of patients).


176194 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to John Galt, 1, #809 of 1967 🔗

My mother suffered with heart problems and every winter her doctor pressured her into having a flu jab which then caused her respiratory problems and she was hospitalised as a result. Thaymt is why I will never have it!

176340 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to John Galt, #810 of 1967 🔗

Ivor Cummings did a good view pieces on heart disease, worth checking out on YouTube. He says big Pharma and medicine are working to a false model and will continue to do whilst it’s profitable. The alternative is cheap and diet related.

176146 Richard O, 6, #811 of 1967 🔗

Masks are causing illness, not preventing it.

Anyone in the NHS who can confirm whether they have seen an increase in patients presenting with bacterial pneumonia and/or facial skin infections?

176155 Samhurt, 10, #812 of 1967 🔗

Dammit, Orange Man! To the voting booth it is. Never voted for anyone or anything in my life: hate the State, hate the corporations, hate the wars, hate the lies, hate the media poodles, hate bureaucracy, hate democracy (no worse than autocracy!), hate indoctrination, hate religion (including secular ones), and am something of a grumbler when it comes to the problem of life itself, which is the problem of suffering and of subjection, of entropy, of the big cold yuck. But I do love life, despite my grumbles – and I do believe in freedom, and I want my fellow man to flourish despite my general exasperation with him and so I suppose that makes me a single-issue voter, now. Never thought I’d be in this position, but how many of us really thought the world would change so darkly so quickly? We may have had a feeling the future would be sort of Robocop-esque, sure, but to come on so strong and so soon and without a fight? Without armies in the streets, by popular suggestion alone?

Hume had something to say about all this, I’m sure… Anyway, Orange Man of the Morning, glorybe. What a time to be ‘alive.’

Apropos of not this, I will say, it’s a special thing to stumble upon someone else offline in the world of flesh who sees through the spin and the rot presently deranging our captured republics, someone who finds skepticism to be not only healthy as an ethos but attractive, too, even supremely so; in all my years as a wannabe debauchee, I’ve never been quite as thrilled by the striking-up of a fair acquaintance than under the present circumstances, where the topic is no longer about popular trifles and trivia but about Truth and Justice, Freedom and Love, Facts versus Lies, etc. Exhilarating. Beats Tinder any day.

176156 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 13, #813 of 1967 🔗

Clicked and collected today. Whilst waiting in the car park I dashed in to pick up a sandwich – new York pastrami and cheese in case you wondered. No goon on the door not that would stop me.

Queued at the fag counter to pay, fat elderly woman in front masked up breathing like darth Vader’s nan buying about 50 lottery tickets. More likely to die of a heart attack or diabetes, stood for ages behind her.

If there is a deadly virus on the loose why the fuck would anyone buy a lottery ticket?? I had a vision of her sitting on an exotic beach wearing a mask and reading a Barbara cartland novel. Made me smile.

Lady brought my shopping out.

‘feel free to take that off, get some fresh air’

She nearly did, pulled from her red face.

‘hmm, nah it’s ok, I’m so used to it now. Anyway I care for my elderly parents so need to wear one’ what the fuck!!

‘ok, you do know you will be wearing it forever’

‘meh, I don’t mind’

‘i most certainly won’t wear one’

Fucking hell.

Time for a new York pastrami and cheese sandwich and a cup of tea.

I do believe if fat slob Boris or wee jimmie stood up and said, virus is gone, no need for masks everybody is safe the sheeple would obey.

Fat slob and wee jimmie won’t of course.

176216 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to stefarm, 4, #814 of 1967 🔗

Ain’t it weird that we laugh at true events in everyday life that 9 months ago if a comedy writer took such a scenario to the tv companies,he/she would have been kicked out after being told “Come on, nobody would ever believe that!”

176241 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #815 of 1967 🔗

“Yeah but no but yeah but no but yeah but no but”
Hansard, 5 October 2020

176271 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Fingerache Philip., #816 of 1967 🔗

I know, I very often think that as witnessed whilst out on my lunchtime stroll – a man sneezing into his mask!!, I do keep expecting Jeremy beadle to jump out with a camera crew

176160 John P, replying to John P, 13, #817 of 1967 🔗

“MPs to get £3,300 pay rise”

Jesus, talk about taking the mickey! I am reminded of the old maxim popularised in the 1990s:

Why does a dog lick it’s balls?

Because it can.

I wonder how long they would continue to take the p*** if the public got to vote on MPs pay?

That would really be democracy in action!

176187 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to John P, #818 of 1967 🔗

Well, they cetainly work hard for it and deserve it. Also, masks are good and Liam Gallagher is very talented.

176170 Arnie, 38, #819 of 1967 🔗

Keep battering on people! One person at a time we are making a difference and the tides will surely turn. Somebody on here said yesterday that the people are not turning from scepticism to mask wearing but towards skepticism from mask wearing.

Respectfully take your chances to point out there there are always two sides to every argument, present facts to peope, don’t overwhelm, I often just write down this website address and suggest Ivor Cummins on YouTube.

I always mention that we all have our own minds and we are free to decide but that we must always see the other side to fully understand the problem.

We are winning! It is in our destiny. We can only lose if we allow it.

For those of us suffering, please take a break, please seek help from friends or even professionals, don’t give up it’s not in our nature and remember that the night is always the darkest just before the dawn.

My love and thoughts to you all.


176176 zacaway, replying to zacaway, 11, #820 of 1967 🔗

Not sure how many of you have seen this, but this is another judicial review coming up (separate from Dolan’s case):

Legal Challenge to the UK Govt on HealthPassports

We are launching a legal challenge against the UK government regarding the proposed introduction of the health/immunity passport system and their related technologies.

We are challenging the UK government’s relationship with technology companies. The NHS APP, Apple & Google’s Covid-19 track and trace update, VST-Enterprises Health Passport, Onfido’s Immunity Passport, are all creating a digital surveillance network – under the guise of protecting public health.

We believe that the UK Government has acted illegally and inappropriately in circumventing the law and our democracy by supporting private technology companies. They are building the infrastructure for a total surveillance network which will remain long after Covid-19 emergency is over.


Says there is one day to go, although I haven’t see a status update for a while. Might be worth a punt (I have).

176188 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to zacaway, 4, #821 of 1967 🔗

The UK Government is in the process of handing over control of our society to powerful global technology companies. They are giving away our rights, freedoms and democracy without any public consultation, due process or Parliamentary oversight. They are using the Covid-19 health emergency as an excuse to implement a new, technology based social system.

This is essentially the logical conclusion of the process of privatisation that began under Thatcher. The UK is now a state run directly by and for large global corporations. The sole purpose of the political class is to provide the fig leaf of a legal framework within which they have unlimited scope of operations. In other words, the state itself has been privatised.

176199 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Richard O, 3, #822 of 1967 🔗

Well, maybe they’ll give Serco the contract for Health Passports and they’ll balls it up royally trying to use Excel for it and that’ll save us. Perhaps a silver lining.

176191 ▶▶ leggy, replying to zacaway, 3, #823 of 1967 🔗

Good – seems my phone is quite cross with me for rolling back the Google covid updates. It reminds me about three times per day about what it wants to do – interestingly, the message refers to Google Health Services. Nice bit of doublespeak.

176233 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to zacaway, 2, #824 of 1967 🔗


176193 Fiat, replying to Fiat, 5, #825 of 1967 🔗

Will it come to this?:
All alone, or in two’s,
The ones who really love you
Walk up and down outside the wall.
Some hand in hand
And some gathered together in bands.
The bleeding hearts and artists
Make their stand.

And when they’ve given you their all
Some stagger and fall, after all it’s not easy
Banging your heart against some mad bugger’s wall.

176196 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Fiat, 5, #826 of 1967 🔗

Well, hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way…

176206 ▶▶ Martin_L, replying to Fiat, 2, #827 of 1967 🔗

Mother, should I trust the government?

176200 chaos, replying to chaos, 13, #828 of 1967 🔗

You know.. all hospital procedures now require a covid test and if you refuse they will not allow you your appointment/procedure. The government claim (for now) the vaccine will not be compulsory. It will be compulsory. They will make it so. You all need to start preparing for that moment. I’d rather die than face this new Chinese abnormal.. though I am afraid of the actual suicide process.. but.. maybe with enough alcohol, I can snuff myself like the pigeon and Kite I had no choice but to kill.

But what will you do? They will make it a choice between freedom (job/money/travel/NHS treatment… ability to meet people) and exlusion from society.

176212 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to chaos, 11, #829 of 1967 🔗

I have been pondering this question for months. Now the vaccine is coming, the matter is brought into very sharp focus.

If the exclusion from society includes the freezing of all assets, then in all probability I will die of starvation. Not a pleasant prospect, it can take weeks (Bobby Sands lasted 66 days on hunger strike).

I have no plans to commit suicide, and intend on hanging on for as long as I can to see how this all pans out. My feeling is that whatever happens it will not be as I expected.

176232 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Richard O, 4, #830 of 1967 🔗

I suspect it will be more insidious than that. First they’ll require a vaccine stamp to be allowed to travel internationally. Then you’ll need it to take public transport. Then you’ll need it to enter hospital, workplace, schools, shops etc. Much like the masks and app. They’ll just keep squeezing until there is no place left to go.

176237 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to zacaway, 6, #831 of 1967 🔗

It’ll be over before then

176267 ▶▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #832 of 1967 🔗

I hope so Nick. You often seem very much like the voice of reason to me.

176287 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #833 of 1967 🔗


The vaccine will not emerge any time soon in my view. I take my cue from Dr Scott Gottlieb, former head of FDA – it will be next autumn at the earliest in his opinion, and he is on the board of Pfizer. The Oxford vaccine is the most advanced in terms of phase III, and the FDA has demanded more information from AstraZeneca pending release from the pause in the US. Will the UK government sanction roll-out of an unlicensed vaccine still paused in the US? Extremely unlikely.

176304 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #834 of 1967 🔗

Unlikely, although the consultation from last month suggest they want the option to use an unlicensed vaccine.

What’s going on with this vaccine roll-out in November then – is that the phase III trial of the Oxford one?

176348 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to zacaway, #835 of 1967 🔗

It would be the Oxford vaccine. Yes, there is an SI ready to allow the roll-out of an unlicensed vaccine, but the consultation has not reported back yet as far as I am aware. Will Parliament and the vaccine tsar ‘allow’ the go-ahead when it is still on pause in the US? The infrastructure may well be being primed for the vaccine, but whether it gets the go-ahead is another matter. The FDA will likely report on the two cases for which it has requested more information from AZ before then – the first pause for supposedly undiagnosed MS (does anyone believe that?) and the second for an apparent case of transverse myelitis.

176420 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #836 of 1967 🔗

Thanks – interesting. Would certainly be a massive U-turn on their dearly held precautionary principle that has been used to justify many of the decisions this year, if they authorised an unlicensed vaccine that the FDA won’t authorise.

176214 ▶▶ l835, replying to chaos, 11, #837 of 1967 🔗

Hang in there. You are far from alone. At the moment most people comply because they are law abiding citizens, and afraid. Scratch the surface and they are fed up with it. Cops don’t want to enforce the laws, time is running out for the restrictions. There is a definite groundswell of people wanting to get back to normal and live with the virus.

176223 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to chaos, 1, #838 of 1967 🔗

Yes, they will coerce people into taking the vaccine whether they want it or not. Tobias Ellwood pretty much confirm this in the Commons last week:

I believe that the biggest challenge will be in managing the transition period—potentially up to a year—when parts of our society have been liberated from the threat ​of covid-19 and seek to return to normality, but those who have yet to be vaccinated are still subject to social distancing rules.


Plus the Government’s response to this petition also did not rule out mandatory vaccines:


176238 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to zacaway, 6, #839 of 1967 🔗

That’s his opinion, not a fact. This is far from done

176251 ▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #840 of 1967 🔗

True, I did ask my MP yesterday to dig into that statement and find out what he really means e.g. will they discriminate against people disabled or with medical condition that means they are unable to take a vaccine. Waiting for reply

176235 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to chaos, 8, #841 of 1967 🔗

Whoa! Remember that people using a crisis to push an agenda is not the same as having that agenda accepted. This is far from any done deal, there is not as yet a vaccine. They have not won they have not nearly won. I know we do not agree on a lot of things, but hang on in there!

176260 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to chaos, 5, #842 of 1967 🔗

Everyone I’ve spoken to including friends and family are refusing the vaccine. When I tell them what they will be restricted from doing they normally say ‘oh, they can’t do that can they??’ I think that by playing by the covid rules they think will get them dispensation and they can carry on as normal.

176276 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to stefarm, 2, #843 of 1967 🔗

I think I saw some poll not long ago suggesting only about 50% of people plan to get the vaccine if/when it is available. I wonder if people will just roll over and comply, as with the masks, but a vaccine is much more invasive, so maybe people will draw the line there.

176286 ▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to zacaway, 1, #844 of 1967 🔗

When so many people already accept loss of freedom of movement, social and cultural life and mass unemployment without a murmur they might not care about regaining those things enough to accept a vaccine. On the other hand their complete lack of critical thought and apparent tendencies to masochism suggest that whatever they say in a survey they will simply do as they are told.

176294 ▶▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Charlie Blue, 2, #845 of 1967 🔗

Very interesting point – do people value freedom highly enough to take the jab to be “granted” their freedom back again? Current behaviour would suggest people don’t actually value their freedom all that highly.

176272 ▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to chaos, 3, #846 of 1967 🔗

I’ll wait. Because plenty of those who will have had the vaccine will STILL test positive. So they’ll still have to isolate, and be locked down, and have no jobs, or any sort of life. Plus they’ll have whatever health issues come with the vaccine.

Then what? Who knows? I’ll certainly be smirking a bit.

176277 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Miss Owl, 3, #847 of 1967 🔗

This is the scenario that I see as most likely. The fact that nothing will change after being vaccinated, and in many cases things will actually deteriorate, will be very telling.

176280 ▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Richard O, 3, #848 of 1967 🔗

Yes, the cat will be out of the bag once people realise the vaccine doesn’t do anything (or even causes side-effects). I’m sure they try to suppress it with the compliance of the MSM, but it’ll eventually get out.

176292 ▶▶▶▶ chaos, replying to Richard O, 3, #849 of 1967 🔗

They’ll just adjust the test so the viruis is magically cured by the vaccine. The virus is the means to an end. The end is a digital ID, social credit score, and a faux green economy wanted by WEF, Prince Charles et al. Later other viruses will come and we will be forced to have those also. They don’t need to be effective. The past and present is whatever they say it is.

176328 ▶▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to chaos, #850 of 1967 🔗

How long before economic reality bites them in the arse though? They can’t just keep printing funny money forever.

176207 Basics, replying to Basics, 6, #851 of 1967 🔗

UK Column today worthwhile catching today imo. They give grounded thought into what is coming as we move into Autumn and beyond. An informative 50 mins with manhy discussion points. Up on youtube soon.

176219 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Basics, 7, #852 of 1967 🔗

All about how The Passport office are now in close liaison with the ONS…For the new Health Passport. Pretty scary. The Rockefeller Institute want this. This is why we have covid.

176262 ▶▶▶ 2 pence, replying to Two-Six, 2, #853 of 1967 🔗

For global travel and trade to return to pre-pandemic levels, travelers will need a secure and verifiable way to document their health status as they travel and cross borders.  Countries will need to be able to trust that a traveller’s record of a COVID PCR test or vaccination administered in another country is valid. Countries will also need the flexibility to update their health screening entry requirements as the pandemic evolves and science progresses.  Airlines, airports and other travel industry stakeholders will need the same.


176318 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Two-Six, 1, #854 of 1967 🔗

And why we have the vaccine.

176246 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 1, #855 of 1967 🔗

Planning to watch at 3pm

176209 Winter, replying to Winter, 41, #856 of 1967 🔗

Hello to my fellow travellers. I’ve been reading this blog for a few months. I’ve meant to post several times, but by the time I’ve caught up with each thread I’ve usually forgotten what it was I wanted to say…

I have flatly refused to wear a mask – and don’t own one or plan to own one. With thanks to people here who have pointed the way to the Laworfiction site, my naturally bolshy self asserts itself whenever necessary. I’m female, small and nearly 59. To some of the other posters here who feel they need to comply with mask wearing for the sake of a less confrontational life – I absolutely get it. However I have found that the timely deployment of a ‘Paddington hard stare’ and a bit of rote learning of the laworfiction exemption toolkit takes me a long way.

176226 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Winter, 5, #857 of 1967 🔗


176510 ▶▶▶ Winter, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #858 of 1967 🔗

Thank you!

176637 ▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Winter, 1, #859 of 1967 🔗

Welcome Winter. Always great to have new people on board .

176795 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Winter, #860 of 1967 🔗

Welcome here. Well done on the masks!

177307 ▶▶ Bartleby, replying to Winter, #861 of 1967 🔗

Winter is here.

176213 Ceriain, replying to Ceriain, 5, #862 of 1967 🔗

These are the most up to date Test & Trace figures (in a readable form). The testing numbers (and results) are people tested, unlike the daily gov pages which show raw tests. Original T&T data is here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-test-and-trace-england-and-coronavirus-testing-uk-statistics-24-september-to-30-september-2020

Not that we didn’t know it already, but something is seriously wrong with Pillar 2; look at those percentages compared with the tests done in NHS labs (Pillar 1).

176414 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to Ceriain, #863 of 1967 🔗

Isn’t there also the problem that once you’ve had one negative test previously at any time you’re never again able to be counted as having another negative result – Only a positive result (if there is one) would be counted.

176218 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 6, #864 of 1967 🔗

Telegraph live feed:

The Australian government has indicated it will maintain firm restrictions on international travel until a Covid-19 vaccine is available and widely distributed a move that will have a prolonged impact on many Australians.

What if there’s never a vaccine?

I really wish the MSM would put this specific question to the politicians.

176222 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Tenchy, 3, #865 of 1967 🔗

We know the answer.

176270 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Tenchy, #866 of 1967 🔗

There is no “safe word” for them to stop.

176308 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tenchy, 1, #867 of 1967 🔗

Even if there is a vaccine – what if (as seems very likely) it is only as (in)effective as the flu vaccine?

We’ve been told that any and all covid deaths are unacceptable, so even with a vaccine the restrictions will have to be maintained.

176313 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #868 of 1967 🔗

The vaccine is about money and power – not health.

176220 Basics, replying to Basics, 6, #869 of 1967 🔗

The biscuit has just been taken. Labour MP smears 84 bacteria cultures, 4 fungi and unknown viruses on her glasses. See the video clip 10secs.

Secondary biscuit available to anyone able to name and shame.


176224 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Basics, 2, #870 of 1967 🔗


176244 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Basics, 1, #871 of 1967 🔗

Might send that to my MP …

176247 ▶▶ Tiberius, replying to Basics, 3, #872 of 1967 🔗

The remarks attributed to Handy Cock by Fraser Nelson in the DT today qualify for a fair bit of sugar and chocolate. Apparently cancer patients will have to wait until covid 19 is under control.

176261 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Basics, 2, #873 of 1967 🔗

To be fair, it’s probably a much better use for the mask! 😂

176478 ▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to Basics, 3, #874 of 1967 🔗

I had one in my car which had been put there by my husband as I don’t wear one. It came in useful though when I got out and saw a big pile of bird shit on the roof.

176225 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 11, #875 of 1967 🔗

The employees of Local Authorities appear to be operating under the delusion that it is the said authorities that pay their wages

Staff are being redeployed to einstatesgroupen units in order to persecute bar, cafe and restaurant owners

The intention is to force these people out of business

The jackbooted do not have the wherewithal to realise that these are the very people who actually pay their wages through business rates etc

Local Authorities report ‘black holes ‘ in their budgets. Don’t you just love the words they use. What they really mean is that they have spent a shed full of money they didn’t have and can we please have some more

Not this time folks

When this shitstorm lands your going to be on the dole with the rest of us

176230 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Cecil B, 4, #876 of 1967 🔗

Divide and rule crap – straight into Boris’s lap.

176239 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Cecil B, 7, #877 of 1967 🔗

Exactly. No bars/restaurants/cafes = not much need for Environmental Health Officers.

176231 Stuart, 5, #878 of 1967 🔗

It’s entirely the cowed, the ill-informed and the gaslighted who spuriously volunteer for Pillar 2 “tests” and stoke the Lockdown Narrative.

176236 Richard O, replying to Richard O, 8, #879 of 1967 🔗

JP bringing much-needed light relief once again:


Oh my God, someone has a peanut allergy! Close down the economy.

For how long?

At least a year.

176283 ▶▶ matt, replying to Richard O, #880 of 1967 🔗

Great as usual

176240 swedenborg, 9, #881 of 1967 🔗

Interesting this quotation from the Lancet article in today’s update

“Some might see this characterisation as absurd, but we have seen the world over how easily physical distancing seems to have been abandoned when people are led to believe, deliberately or otherwise, that new measures replace rather than complement earlier interventions.”
Masks good example. Especially as there are not a single RCT to prove efficiency and many RCTs disproving efficiency in flu.
Otherwise the Lancet article is useful to stop selling vaccines as silver bullet. And at least they are only mentioning hand washing and social distancing is required the next years and not masks.

176245 Felice, replying to Felice, #882 of 1967 🔗

Can someone give me some up-to-date info about the infection fatality rate please? Some idiot on the Torygraph comment page has said it was 7%. That’s far too high, but I’d like some good solid facts and refs to counter the claim. Thank you if you can help.

176252 ▶▶ MaxPower, replying to Felice, 2, #883 of 1967 🔗

Between 0.3 and 0.5 IFR

176255 ▶▶▶ MaxPower, replying to MaxPower, #884 of 1967 🔗

Perhaps even as low as 0.1

176263 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to MaxPower, 2, #885 of 1967 🔗

0.1 = 7.0
0.3 = 7.0
0.5 = 7.0

Clearly the Telegraph commenter has a really solid grounding in such indisputable mathematical truths.

176265 ▶▶▶▶ chaos, replying to Richard O, #886 of 1967 🔗

Don’t forget we now have our own 50 Cent army.

176266 ▶▶▶▶ MaxPower, replying to Richard O, #887 of 1967 🔗

Hahaha!! Love it!!

176256 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Felice, 6, #888 of 1967 🔗


Try this for some rough numbers. WHO estimated that 10% of the worlds population have been infected giving a rough IFR of around 0.14%

176322 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Felice, #889 of 1967 🔗

CDC recently updated estimated infection fatality rates for COVID. Here are the updated survival rates by age group:

0-19: 99.997%
20-49: 99.98%
50-69: 99.5%
70+: 94.6%

It’s from Dr Fauci’s lot so they can’t say its fake news.

176369 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Felice, 1, #890 of 1967 🔗

My estimate is fuck all

177271 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Felice, #891 of 1967 🔗

Good summary with lots of refs here:

Studies on Covid-19 Lethality

176257 Jonny S., #892 of 1967 🔗

The IFR cannot be accurately measured, however this link describes the how to estimate it. https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/estimating-the-infection-fatality-ratio-in-england/

176258 chaos, 2, #893 of 1967 🔗

What’s amusing, is that Corbyn’s spending plans were less than that spent by Germany.. and they look like a drop in the bucket now compared to what has been spent, wasted and defrauded (half of the £24B bounce back loans were likely fraud). Here I am in 2020, on Airstrip One, with download speeds no higher than 2003…

176268 chaos, replying to chaos, 9, #894 of 1967 🔗

Are the 1922 etc really going to let Boris continue with his faux green coup?

176295 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to chaos, 2, #895 of 1967 🔗

Yes, because if the truth ever comes out they are toast

176382 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to chaos, 1, #896 of 1967 🔗

No. Once the Brexit deal is either done, or not done next Thursday, he will be getting his marching orders.

176443 ▶▶▶ Richard, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #897 of 1967 🔗

I hope you are right – another visit to the magic money forest (don’t think a single tree will suffice any longer) today. The reckoning when the butchers bill arrives is going very painful for many generations

176273 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 7, #898 of 1967 🔗

Isn’t time someone did one of those cross-contamination videos for masks? You know the ones they do showing someone handling raw chicken and the infra red light shows all the places they touched with their germ ridden hands. A simple one of those with someone using a mask in the way people do would immediately show the problems. Having said that they’d probably use it to justify gloves or double-masks or something so probably best not to.

176278 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Achilles, 1, #899 of 1967 🔗

No need.

It’s been done.


176303 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #900 of 1967 🔗

Great. see at about 8.45min

176650 ▶▶▶ HaylingDave, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #901 of 1967 🔗

Jesus, F-ing christ … how many zero-risk mask zealots could watch that video and then try to claim masks are useful in our current situation?!?! I’d love to watch them squirm!

176282 swedenborg, 1, #902 of 1967 🔗

The Barrister John McMillan’s article “In the age of Covid, the law is a thug” in today’s update is an absolute read about the utter absurdities in the Corona laws. They are impossible to “fine tune” to the pandemic. Haven’t we the same problem with SD? This “medicine” for the pandemic is impossible to give a dosage for.5,10,30,50 or 500 to assemble? 1m,1,5 m,2 m? etc etc. The only certain measure, handwashing, we have known since Semmelweis. The SD have extremely weak evidence for success not even approaching hand washing. And we are ruining our economy because of a SD dosage problem.

176289 RickH, replying to RickH, 4, #903 of 1967 🔗

Yesterday, a link to Kary Mullis talking about his PCR Test was posted.

I thought it might be useful to turn this into written form. However, the sort of speech used in this sort of discussion isn’t east to transcribe cogently, so I’ve done a sort of halfway house of quotation and precis that may be useful to get a feeling of how the inventor saw the PCR test, leaving out the specifics about HIV which, at that time was the subject under debate.

It’s a useful horse’s mouth reference to use if anyone gets arsey about ‘cases’.

The last two paragraphs, particularly, contain the kicker in terms of the use of PCR as it is currently being used by government :

“I don’t think that you can ‘misuse’ PCR. It’s the interpretation of the results that is the problem . If you do the PCR well, you can find almost anything in anybody (it’s like the Bhuddist notion that everything is contained in everything else).

PCR allows you to amplify one simple molecule up to something that you can really measure There’s just very few molecules that you don’t have at least one of in your body. Misinterpreting that fact could be thought of as a ‘misuse’ by just claiming that such a finding is ‘meaningful’.

Somebody who’s got a particular virus generally is going to have anything that you can test for. To test for a specific virus, and suggest that the result has any special meaning is a problem in terms of interpretation, rather than in the ‘misuse’ of the PCR test.

The measurement for a virus in terms of its incidence is not exact. It’s not as good as – say – our measurement of something obvious and visible like apples. But the PCR test is based on things that are invisible, and results, in that sense, are inferred.

It’s a process that’s used to make a whole lot of something out of very little. That’s simply what it is.

It doesn’t tell you that you are sick, and it doesn’t tell you that what is detected in you is going to hurt you – or anything like that.”

The video (from about 48:35) can be found at :


176371 ▶▶ John P, replying to RickH, #904 of 1967 🔗

I’ve been saying this on here all week. Even today ffs!

If it were not for Peter Hitchens’ exhortation to keep repeating yourself until people begin to notice I think I would have given up long ago!

If you want to test for “live” virus you need to do a plaque assay. That’s the third time I have said this today!

176386 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to John P, 1, #905 of 1967 🔗

As said – I posted this because it comes from the source, not from anything new.

176462 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to John P, #906 of 1967 🔗

The media tell us we’re in the midst of an unprecedented pandemic every 5 minutes. They do this because otherwise we wouldn’t notice. I see no reason to not do the same with the truth.

176297 chaos, replying to chaos, 2, #907 of 1967 🔗

Bit by bit the local lockdowns equal a national lockdown. If that happens we know even the 1922 are in on the WEF/vaccine ruse.

176323 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to chaos, #908 of 1967 🔗

I told the pheasant that has found a new home in the car park outside my block of flats about this. She was not impressed.

176344 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to Richard O, #909 of 1967 🔗

How did you know it was a she?

176357 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to chaos, #910 of 1967 🔗

Pale brown mottled plumage, short tail.

176359 ▶▶▶▶▶ chaos, replying to Richard O, -3, #911 of 1967 🔗

Did you fuck it?

176407 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to chaos, 1, #912 of 1967 🔗

no he’s the pheasant plucker’s son!

(I’ll see myself out..)

176300 Kevin 2, replying to Kevin 2, 6, #913 of 1967 🔗

“More than 1,000 consultants from Deloitte are now working on Test and Trace, according to newly released documents that underline the scale of the government’s reliance on the private sector.
According to documents released by the Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC) under Freedom of Information rules, there are currently 1,114 consultants from the firm who are working on the scheme.
In pure headcount terms, this is about the size of a small UK government department.

The news is the latest evidence of the growing cost of Britain’s testing system, which is already budgeted at about £12bn – equivalent to the cost of four aircraft carriers.
Deloitte, which has both accounting and management consultancy arms, charges anything up to £2,360 a day for each of its consultants.”


Hard to know what to say…

176315 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Kevin 2, #914 of 1967 🔗

This is why the establishment is so hard to beat on any subject when they have clearly have a set agenda and won’t see any reason. They have endless funds to recruit the private sector to work at enslaving the masses – Serco seem to be manning a lot of the testing centres, and now we have an army of consultants.

176317 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Kevin 2, 3, #915 of 1967 🔗

More than 1,000 consultants from Deloitte are now working on Test and Trace

Doing what?

176331 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Ceriain, 1, #916 of 1967 🔗

All day? Maybe they just spent a few minutes on it, they still get included in the number, just like PCR tests.
Yes, it is a scandal how lots of companies are making money out of this.

176336 ▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Ceriain, 1, #917 of 1967 🔗

‘Working’ from home and doing sod all more than likely. I’m intrigued as to how these technology bozos are going to figure out how to ‘test and trace’ the nine million people who are functionally illiterate in the UK. Not to mention the other millions of elderly who whilst literate are effectively technophobes. And then of course there’s those like me who use an ancient Nokia phone to make and receive….er….phone calls.
But I suppose if the government raid more of their ‘money forest’ to spend on more useless consultants they may come up with something else that proves to be an unmitigated disaster.

176319 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Kevin 2, 2, #918 of 1967 🔗

Colossal waste of money.

Frankly, the four aircraft carriers would just encourage the government scumbags to get us into even bigger trouble around the world. If you take the government “QALY” valuation of £30k per life year, that represents the cost of saving 400,000 years of British life by ordinary medical treatments.

176341 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to Mark, 1, #919 of 1967 🔗

How much so far has been spent on each “covid” death? I make it about £12M per life. Average age 82 with comorbidities.

176321 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Kevin 2, 2, #920 of 1967 🔗

Q What’s the difference between an administrative clerk and a consultant?

A About £2,275 a day

176335 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Kevin 2, 1, #921 of 1967 🔗

All the most awful superficial cunts on my degree course went to work for the likes of Deloitte and Deutch Bank twenty years ago. I was jealous at the time…

176356 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to chaos, #922 of 1967 🔗

lol, I know what you mean!

176311 Ceriain, replying to Ceriain, -1, #923 of 1967 🔗

Re. my previous post about Test and Trace figures: https://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/10/09/latest-news-158/#comment-176213

Krankie’s numbers today for Scotland: 1,246 new cases of COVID-19 reported; this is 16.2% * of newly tested individuals (my bold)

176355 ▶▶ John P, replying to Ceriain, 1, #924 of 1967 🔗

You mean 1,246 positive PCR test results.

176374 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to John P, #925 of 1967 🔗

Not my words; I was quoting them, John.

176316 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 7, #926 of 1967 🔗

Thanks to Trump, America is now QUESTIONING ALL VACCINES and “herd immunity”

176329 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Victoria, #927 of 1967 🔗

Ani-vax website.

Most vaccines are just a “shot in the dark” (pun intended). The CDC and the vaccine manufacturers have no proof they work at all, and it doesn’t matter. Why? Because you cannot sue vaccine manufacturers, ever, plus, they don’t want them to work anyway. The whole goal is to infect the masses, dumb them down, give kids autism and create “clients for life. ” Get it? There’s so much more money in keeping people sick than in healing them, so there’s the rub. It’s been that way since the 1950s.

Try to keep up.

Tune your internet dial to Vaccines.news for updates on the fake Covid vaccine that doesn’t work and embeds a Bill Beelzebub Gates microchip in your body to be “activated” at a later time . Meanwhile, all the Covid-vaxxed-sheeple will be shedding Covid on each other, wondering what just happened.

176347 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Ceriain, 7, #928 of 1967 🔗

These sorts of sites give the anti lockdown movement a bad name.

I know that this sort of language appeals to some people here, but some (more than just some) scientists are sincere in their desires to find cures and vaccines for illnesses.

They’re not all bad!

My personal objection to a covid vaccine rests on the fact that it is being rushed out and heavily promoted by government and on the fact that one is almost certainly not necessary.

176381 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to John P, 1, #929 of 1967 🔗

These sorts of sites give the anti lockdown movement a bad name.”

That’s the problem.

There’s good evidence for having a critical view of vaccination as a ‘cure-all’ – and that critique is expressed in some quite reasonable sites with good analysis.

What we don’t need is an alternative form of hysteria.

176383 ▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to John P, 2, #930 of 1967 🔗

These sorts of sites give the anti lockdown movement a bad name.

Totally agree. They do more damage than good.

176396 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Victoria, #931 of 1967 🔗

Yeah Natural News is close to Alex Jones for this kind of stuff.

Of course both lush hard on their own health products to sell on the back of their scare tactics.

176325 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #932 of 1967 🔗


This is what we need to know for every hospital in the UK. Many hospital admissions “for covid” are actually not for covid at all.

176352 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to A. Contrarian, #933 of 1967 🔗

Yep, we know this. Get run over by a bus. Taken to hosp, test false postive for the rona

Die of your multiple injuries, recorded as a covid death

176373 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Cecil B, 2, #934 of 1967 🔗

Yes, but we need to know the numbers. If it’s around 50% all over the country, that’s massive. It’s not something I’ve ever seen broken down like this before but the actual numbers are crucial to know.

176388 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #935 of 1967 🔗

Locally in Northern Ireland I see the inpatient numbers jump dramatically every day. Very volatile. I have to believe its because the people turning up are doing so for other illnesses and getting tested positive for Covid-19.

176530 ▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #936 of 1967 🔗

Written by one of the ‘local democracy reporters’ so you’ll probably find it on the relevant BBC ‘regions’ page, too.

176333 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 1, #937 of 1967 🔗

Here ya go KH1485
A little picture of your MP to frame and place in your fine establishment.

176342 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Two-Six, 3, #938 of 1967 🔗

Is that a skid mark on her nappy?

176343 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, #939 of 1967 🔗

I can do one with a caption if you like, how about “oooohh” or “one person sniffle is another person’s deth knell”…

176605 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Two-Six, #940 of 1967 🔗

That’s very kind of you Two-Six, but I’m trying to encourage fellow LS into my gaff!

More snark today from someone not impressed with us being maskless. Even made a point about mentioning it on his T&T post-it – tosser. Is there going to be another Environmental Health visit I wonder.

176653 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to kh1485, 1, #941 of 1967 🔗

Ask them to supply the science that supports the alls they enforce.

Should be good for a laugh as the 3 answers I have had in 2 days all say they have none and done no research either.

176665 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Awkward Git, #942 of 1967 🔗

Exactly. In our response to the bullying visit, we asked several questions and the EHO said she didn’t have the answer and that we should check the government’s website.

As I said at the time, you couldn’t make this stuff up. Just adds to the suspicion that we were targeted because we don’t *believe*.

176364 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Two-Six, 2, #943 of 1967 🔗

We are truly fucked

176387 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Cecil B, #944 of 1967 🔗


176378 ▶▶ John P, replying to Two-Six, #945 of 1967 🔗

Who is it and what is the purpose of posting this?

176390 ▶▶▶ Brian ‘Monty’ Cohen, replying to John P, 5, #946 of 1967 🔗

Kemi Badenoch, MP for Saffron Walden, Essex. She’s been dismissive of KH’s communications with her, as previously documented on this site.

176398 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Brian ‘Monty’ Cohen, -1, #947 of 1967 🔗

Hmm thanks. I think.

lol, oh I don’t read everything that appears on here. Good grief, I’m not a fucking computer.

176405 ▶▶▶▶▶ Brian ‘Monty’ Cohen, replying to John P, 4, #948 of 1967 🔗

I’m just giving you some background and explaining the purpose behind it…

176437 ▶▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Brian ‘Monty’ Cohen, 2, #949 of 1967 🔗

Damn I always thought she was sound, her maiden speech in the house was good. Oh well another empty politician in a bloody ocean of them.tsk.

176450 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to KBuchanan, 2, #950 of 1967 🔗

Unsurprising now she’s a junior minister.

176610 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to KBuchanan, 1, #951 of 1967 🔗

I thought she was OK to start with: she secured me meetings with the NHS after my mum died unexpectedly. But after our burglary, when she visited the shop, she was incredibly officious with her assistant and quite patronising towards us, so I lost respect for her after that. Her replies to my e-mails have been similar in tone – very condesending. But then, hey, I’m just a chavvy cafe owner in her eyes!

176346 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 3, #952 of 1967 🔗

Unsolicited email to my business address today:

Say hello to Breathe Happy,

the world’s first consumer reusable face mask!

Say hello to a GDPR breach which has duly been reported.

176402 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sarigan, 3, #953 of 1967 🔗

UG…..evil advertising

176350 nickbowes, #954 of 1967 🔗

OT, just had the mispleasure of watching Rik Mayall`s final film “One by One” on youtube (someone here recommended it!), ahhh, another conspiracy theory to stop me sleeping.

176351 Mel, replying to Mel, 10, #955 of 1967 🔗

Am I reading this right? The NHS Nightingales cant be used to bolster current NHS capacity, because they were expecting unconscious, intubated patients, and dont have enough loos!!!!


176358 ▶▶ Mel, replying to Mel, 8, #956 of 1967 🔗

Desmond Swayne is my new hero by the way

176394 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Mel, 3, #957 of 1967 🔗

Like Sir Des. Good man.

176506 ▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Mel, 2, #958 of 1967 🔗

Indeed. him & Sir Charles Walker have been very good – sent them both a brief message of support recently, (even though I’m not a constituent) to say thanks for standing up; to be fair to them it can’t be easy in the HoC when you know very few people are standing with you… but if people in the corridors – & bars! – of Westminster are good at anything it is plotting evil schemes talking about what’s really best for the country… & when visible support grows, people will take notice…

176360 ▶▶ claire, replying to Mel, 2, #959 of 1967 🔗

There was a contract tender the other month for circa £500K to dismantle the Glasgow one…

176430 ▶▶▶ jb12, replying to claire, #960 of 1967 🔗

I think that was just for the appointment of a consultant, the actual cost will be far higher. Jobs for the boys, the SNP way.

176361 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Mel, 2, #961 of 1967 🔗

His post about the “rule of six” is very scathing.


176372 ▶▶▶ Mel, replying to Ceriain, 6, #962 of 1967 🔗

As it should be. the Government is doing its level best to infantilise the population and deny them agency in their own lives.

All you need to do is swap humanity, culture, community and love for (the illusion of) safety.

Rule of 6! Just like bubbles, it is magical thinking presenting itself as science.

176409 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Ceriain, 3, #963 of 1967 🔗

“I couldn’t resist pointing out that if simplicity was the yardstick, then ten would be preferable as we could count them up on our fingers.”

176617 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Ceriain, #964 of 1967 🔗

I wish I could afford to live in the New Forest, what a top bloke.

176368 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Mel, 4, #965 of 1967 🔗

Just been talking about this with MIL and FIL. The useless incompetent government have been bleating about a second wave all summer and yet here we are in October with issues like that. They’ve had all bleeping summer to prepare and the Nightingales are still unusable. WHAT HAVE THEY BEEN DOING??

176410 ▶▶ l835, replying to Mel, 4, #966 of 1967 🔗

On the same day the Cardiff clowns announced the North Wales lockdowns, they stated they were closing 9 of the 19 Welsh Nightingales. So, our NHS can cope, and we don’t need them, but we have to lockdown and protect capacity in the NHS! My 8 year old is better at strategic planning….

176460 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Mel, #967 of 1967 🔗


176353 chaos, replying to chaos, 5, #968 of 1967 🔗

I start to feel optimistic and then I listen to yet another caller on talkradio and I realise all is lost. And I also wonder.. how have these people managed to buy a home? How do they drive a car? How do they manage to tie their shoe laces? What do they think about during the day?

176367 ▶▶ Chin Up, replying to chaos, 2, #969 of 1967 🔗

Come on now, you should know how controlled those things are. 100 people could call up, 99 to say it’s ridiculous and 1 to say the measures aren’t strict enough, and who do you think they’d put on?

176377 ▶▶ Brian ‘Monty’ Cohen, replying to chaos, 11, #970 of 1967 🔗

As the greatly missed George Carlin said: “Think of how dumb the average person is, and then realise half of people are dumber than that!”

176392 ▶▶ John P, replying to chaos, 3, #971 of 1967 🔗

I start to feel optimistic and then I listen to yet another caller on talkradio and I realise all is lost

What because of some half-wit who phones a radio show. Good grief!

176406 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to John P, 3, #972 of 1967 🔗

They’re cherry picked.

176363 JohnMac, replying to JohnMac, 8, #973 of 1967 🔗

I think this is worth repeating.

Dr. Margarite Griesz-Brisson MD, PhD is a Consultant Neurologist and Neurophysiologist with a PhD in Pharmacology, with special interest in neurotoxicology, environmental medicine, neuroregeneration and neuroplasticity.

Masks damage the brain
The re-breathing of our exhaled air will without a doubt create oxygen deficiency and a flooding of carbon dioxide.

We know that the human brain is very sensitive to oxygen deprivation.

There are nerve cells for example in the hippocampus, that can’t be longer than 3 minutes without oxygen. They cannot survive.

While you’re thinking that you have got used to wearing your mask and re-breathing your own exhaled air, the degenerative processes in your brain are getting amplified as your oxygen deprivation continues.

Especially in children
The child needs the brain to learn, and the brain needs oxygen to function.

The child’s brain, or the youth’s brain, is thirsting for oxygen. Their brain is also incredibly active, as it has so much to learn.

To deprive a child’s or an adolescent’s brain of oxygen, or to restrict it in any way, is not only dangerous to their health, it is absolutely criminal.

Irreversible damage
Oxygen deficiency inhibits the development of the brain, and the damage that has taken place as a result CANNOT be reversed.


176379 ▶▶ chaos, replying to JohnMac, #974 of 1967 🔗

We actually need a certain amount of carbon dioxide hence why we are designed to breathe through our nose and not our mouths. In fact, ‘over-breathing’ through our mouths may contribute to ADHD and other health issues. We also get most of our ntric oxide from our sinuses which is important for erections and the immune system.

176455 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to chaos, 3, #975 of 1967 🔗

Correct that we need some CO2 but the article above refers to O2 deprivation and the negative impact on health

176400 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to JohnMac, 2, #976 of 1967 🔗

Inhaled air 20% oxygen, 0.04% carbon Dioxide
Exhaled air 16% oxygen, 4% Carbon Dioxide.
Exhaled air is sufficient during mouth to mouth resuscitation to maintain brain function.
Masks are not sealed rebreather systems, they let fresh air in round the sides. Also the difference in partial pressure between the outside and the inside of the mask would mean oxygen would diffuse inwards whilst carbon dioxide would diffuse outwards.
Breathing is not a passive activity, there is a significant pressure difference, particularly if mouth breathing.
I would take note of this but would need further evidence.

176454 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to p02099003, 4, #977 of 1967 🔗

I commented to your similar post yesterday. In acute situations the CO2 is ‘manageable’ but in chronic situations (wearing masks for longer than a few minutes) the lack of O2 is a major problem for the metabolic processes in the body. Hypoxia affects the brain negatively especially in children, as described above).

In addition mask wearing forces people to breath through their mouths as opposed to nose breathing that is required for good health. From a dental perspective it results in narrower facial/jaw development and compacted teeth that requires expensive orthodontic treatment when around the age of 11.

176467 ▶▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Victoria, 1, #978 of 1967 🔗

I would be more concerned about mouth infections than possible hypoxaemia/hypoxic brain injury. Also, has anyone taken arterial blood gases from someone wearing a mask for any length of time? If someone begins to gasp for air they will remove the mask. For a child symptoms of hypoxaemia would be cyanosis around the lips (young children do breath hold until they go blue).

176739 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnMac, replying to p02099003, #979 of 1967 🔗

She says one seems to get used to the mask, but the damage is still being done. It’s all in the video and in yesterday’s full transcript. She should be on the TV, talking about this.

You don’t give your qualifications. I’m actually amazed that anyone would question a consultant neurologist in their own field.

176696 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Victoria, #980 of 1967 🔗

Wearing a mask is stupid and horrible don’t get me wrong but you will have less oxygen in a plane. Probably one of the reasons you feel grotty after a long flight although the people who work on planes seem to be OK with it. They should probably be more worried about the radiation.

176423 ▶▶ James Bertram, replying to JohnMac, 4, #981 of 1967 🔗

Sent it to my useless Guildford MP with the comment that, as she was my representative who had made no attempt to oppose the government on this measure, I held her directly responsible for this crime.

176366 chaos, replying to chaos, 17, #982 of 1967 🔗

I’m not the only one who spends hours on covid every day am I? I need to cut it down. Very very dark thoughts.

176376 ▶▶ FenTyger, replying to chaos, 2, #983 of 1967 🔗

Nope, sadly I should do something else. In fact anything else!

176385 ▶▶ John P, replying to chaos, 1, #984 of 1967 🔗

Oh, I have better things to do. I have worked from home for ten years now.

It is true that productivity is lowered BTW. Just as well I work for myself.

176457 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to chaos, #985 of 1967 🔗


176899 ▶▶ helen, replying to chaos, #986 of 1967 🔗

Chaos you could reread Behold the pale horse thats my light relief from the world wide coup

176909 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to chaos, #987 of 1967 🔗

Try someat ‘ creative’ draw , paint anything that stops the endless shite of living now.I would suggest peotry apologies to Fotherington_- Thomas, but it is mostly miserable shit.

177157 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to chaos, #988 of 1967 🔗

Agreed. I spend hours trying to find some crumb of comfort that suggests that this nightmare is actually going to end soon. Sadly, it’s a fruitless task.

176370 guy153, replying to guy153, 3, #989 of 1967 🔗

Latest ONS survey published today. These are infection rates for selected regions on a log scale. A straight line on a log scale is exponential growth, and then it bends back towards the horizontal as things slow down.

These are apparently “daily” rates but they come from the ONS model– they don’t actually have data for every day. But they’re only interpolating between known data points. It’s not a “model” in the Ferguson sense (by which I mean a wild delusional fantasy).

The NW which was an area for concern does appear to be bending downwards which is good news. The NE looks a little way behind it. By next week I would hope to see this downwards bend continue for the NW and start for the NE.

Interesting to look at the SW taking off. They are coming from a starting point of somewhat higher susceptibility than the rest of the country so perhaps will see a larger autumn adjustment.

London is already starting to level off– it started its second ripple first. I am expecting the other regions to take a roughly similar time to reach their new equilibriums.

176380 ▶▶ John P, replying to guy153, 3, #990 of 1967 🔗

See what I mean?

These positive PCR test results are meaningless. The PCR test does not detect “live”, viable virus.

It detects viral genetic material. The genetic material could be from a dead virus.

176397 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to John P, 5, #991 of 1967 🔗

Absolutely : ‘PCR positives’ are NOT ‘infections’.

176645 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to RickH, #992 of 1967 🔗

PCR positives are not real world positives. In the usual ‘positive’ sense of the word.

176427 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to John P, 2, #993 of 1967 🔗


I have a suspicion that the PCR test had originally been used in this way in the context of people presenting with symptoms.

So someone would turn up with a specific set of symptoms and that would obviously indicate a fairly narrow set of possible causes.

If a PCR test was then performed on this symptomatic person and SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus viral genetic material was detected then they could, with some confidence, probably say that it was the SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus that was causing the symptoms.

HOWEVER, it is now being used on people with no symptoms at all.

That could be especially misleading, as people who are asymptomatic could have had a SARS-CoV-2 infection from which they had recovered, and still be retaining viral genetic material in their bodies.

It has been demonstrated experimentally that individuals retain genetic material from dead viruses in their bodies for 2-3 months (not weeks) after symptoms are gone.

Using the PCR test on asymptomatic, apparently healthy people could lead to many false positives.

176694 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to John P, #994 of 1967 🔗

Yes agree it’s a sensible test for people with symptoms. But in that case you want to use a fairly low cycle threshold since if it’s causing symptoms there ought to be quite a lot of it. Interesting case the other day I heard about. Three flatmates with ILI. All 3 got tests, only one positive. I wish I knew the cycle count.

176572 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to John P, #995 of 1967 🔗

Right but clearly something is going up and it’s likely to be live virus as dead virus does not replicate.

This is the ONS survey which has consistent sampling (randomly selected households) and an FPR of < 0.05%.

Do not confuse this with "Pillar 2" data which is essentially meaningless because of poor methodology especially inconsistent sampling.

SARS2 infections are going up. Nothing surprising or alarming about that.

They have now published their own summary:


176412 ▶▶ TJN, replying to guy153, 1, #996 of 1967 🔗

Data only to 1 October though? Trends will be ahead of that now.

Incidentally, the month to 1 October, down here in Devon and Cornwall there were 6 CV patients in hospitals in the two counties, 3 of whom tested +ve after being admitted for other causes.


This article is badly written. I don’t understand this quote:

For the data for September 30 across the South West, there were two new admissions made to hospital due to COVID-19, but seven diagnoses of inpatients of COVID-19.

Whatever this means, it points to the same picture.

176422 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to guy153, 3, #997 of 1967 🔗

The trouble is irrespective of the statistics (which are often highly dubious) the destination has been decided by Boris and his advisors – A National Full Lockdown – probably with military involvement. They seem to have lost their minds, the new wage guarantee to May seems to confirm this.

176431 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Darryl, 1, #998 of 1967 🔗

Extending the bribery to buy compliance, regardless of the cost. Clearly, the economy is of no consequence.

I can only infer from this that the vaccine is all they care about. That’s it. Nothing else matters.

176502 ▶▶ Eamon, replying to guy153, 1, #999 of 1967 🔗

I think the old sero-survey had the North West showing a higher rate of infection. The whole chart is just evidence of her immunity if you take population density into account (SE was low on the sero-survey from memory but is far less populated)
The North also appears to reflect the way we choose universities up here, with the party universities getting the worse dose.

176384 chaos, replying to chaos, 18, #1000 of 1967 🔗

David Attenborough. Another cunt like Charles, William and Stanley/Klaus/Boris.

176403 ▶▶ RickH, replying to chaos, -2, #1001 of 1967 🔗

You mean you don’t agree with him?

176404 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to RickH, 15, #1002 of 1967 🔗

He’s another enviromentalist spouting the man-made climate change lie. Another very rich man who wants to save the planet. No flights for you but hundreds for him…

176492 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to chaos, -3, #1003 of 1967 🔗

Oh Gawd, not the climate change hobby horse again!

Just stick to the knitting.

176408 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to chaos, 14, #1004 of 1967 🔗

He used to make very good documentaries and highlight important issues. The documentaries still look good but now have a political narrative.

Unfortunately he then chose to go full in with the Davos agenda – which basically looks like an eco New World Order with a privileged few and technologically controlled masses.

176419 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to Darryl, 8, #1005 of 1967 🔗

Flights for the rich and staycations for the masses (as long as they don’t write bad things on twitter or facebook).

176389 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #1006 of 1967 🔗


This shows the R value in Madrid. Fascinating. They have got lockdown wrong twice. The first lockdown 15th March and the peak was 4th March. The second lockdown local declared 2 nd Oct when the R already has declined under 1. 8th Oct the Gov declare local emergency situation to reinforce the local lockdown which was thrown out by courts. But the R has declined even further. The second peak seemed to have peaked in Madrid 2 nd Aug. Can anyone explain why? Masks have been worn since several months, nothing special happened in Aug. Must be some form of herd immunity has been reached to flex the curve downwards again as Madrid was hit hard in the first wave.

176428 ▶▶ TJN, replying to swedenborg, #1007 of 1967 🔗

When you look at what’s happening in the different countries it’s hard to see any correlation with climatic conditions. If our figures are getting worse here because it’s autumn, then why did Madrid peak at the height of summer?

Dodgy data may be a part explanation, but perhaps not the whole explanation.

176474 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to TJN, 1, #1008 of 1967 🔗

The climatic variable are complex – but definitely relevant. Some have suggested that humidity is a key one.

176801 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to RickH, #1009 of 1967 🔗

Yes, but if it’s humidity it’s hard to correlate what has happened in Spain with what is happening here (or not).

176515 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to TJN, 1, #1010 of 1967 🔗

You’d probably be right. Best to start with the theory that the testing data is a nonsense.

176391 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #1011 of 1967 🔗

Democrats now trying to claim that Trump is unable to fulfil his role as President.

Politics over the last few years has shown that anything goes when power is concerned.

176416 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #1012 of 1967 🔗

Every other attempt the Democrats have initiated to unseat Trump has failed, dismally. The 25th Amendment is their last chance saloon. I expect they will fail again.

176424 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Richard O, #1013 of 1967 🔗

I don’t like to take sides in these sorts of things but I can just imagine hundreds of people scrambling around looking up statute books trying to find any bit of smallprint that will aid in whatever their current obective is.

As I intimated, these people will stop at nothing to get what they want.

176433 ▶▶▶ paulito, replying to Richard O, #1014 of 1967 🔗

I hope so. If the 25th amendment applied to anyone, it’s to lunatic democrats.

176484 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Richard O, 2, #1015 of 1967 🔗

The Republicans have actually been the masters at bending elections.

It’s not that Trump is good. He’s a world-class idiot, and calling it right over Covid is just a random bit of opposition to the Democrats that’s turned out right.

It’s just that the current crop of Democrats are hopeless. Like the Labour front bench here.

176495 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to RickH, #1016 of 1967 🔗

Yes who could forget the “hanging chads” in Florida in 2000 that enabled George W. Bush’s presidency. Not that Gore would have been any better of course.

176557 ▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to RickH, #1017 of 1967 🔗

If only the Dems were just hopeless. They are right behind the NWO.
Just look at NY and California.

176440 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Nobody2020, #1018 of 1967 🔗

Bit rich considering the state of sleepy Joe.

176721 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nobody2020, #1019 of 1967 🔗

Using the 25th amendment is the Dems way of ousting Joe Biden and installing Kamala Harris once/if they win…

176393 chaos, replying to chaos, 8, #1020 of 1967 🔗

Surely with the amount of money being thrown around and lost.. a Greek style government grab on bank account savings is inevitable?

176417 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to chaos, 7, #1021 of 1967 🔗

I would suspect that complete collapse and a move to a digital (controlled) currency could be the ultimate destination. It deliberate economic vandalism, all for this –

CDC recently updated estimated infection fatality rates for COVID. Here are the updated survival rates by age group:

0-19: 99.997%
20-49: 99.98%
50-69: 99.5%
70+: 94.6%

Absolute madness.

176475 ▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Darryl, 2, #1022 of 1967 🔗

And those numbers will go up (survival rate) as all these new ‘cases’ they are finding don’t have any illness. Remember these numbers are based on deaths as a proportion of infections. Back in March/April we were only testing people who were actually ill, and that means that in fact as a proportion of people who get this it is likely to end up being not ‘just like flu’, but a really, very mild (in terms of fatality) version of flu.

176545 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Chris Hume, #1023 of 1967 🔗

The problem is they can bribe people into compliance, as they can in theory create endless money. There is no way the actions taken can be justified by the figures. Sadly, I don’t think there is any chance of a reversal from the members of the Covid cult.

176644 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to chaos, 1, #1024 of 1967 🔗

I was just thinking maybe I should just spend my savings and try and have a good time, I like Sweden, lived in Stockholm for 3 months.

176401 wendyk, 3, #1025 of 1967 🔗
176411 Ceriain, replying to Ceriain, 5, #1026 of 1967 🔗

Today’s England hospital figures are out: https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/

0-19: 0
20-39: 0
40-59: 4
60-79: 19
80+: 33

One death (80+) from 31st March; one death (80+) from 21st April.

176418 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Ceriain, #1027 of 1967 🔗

Is this from PHE?

176438 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Ceriain, 4, #1029 of 1967 🔗

And all had underlying health issues – so were in hospital for other things that would have likely led to death anyway. But, never let the facts get in the way of the story, as they say!

176413 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 20, #1030 of 1967 🔗


“Argentina was praised by the media for “putting people before profits” in their “humane covid-19 response.” Today their covid-19 cases are hitting new highs every week and deaths as a % of population are now among the highest 20 countries in the world.

The humane response was the world’s longest lockdown 200 days and mask wearing. Compare the neighbouring Uruguay with no lockdown.

176513 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to swedenborg, #1031 of 1967 🔗

Uruguay had a voluntary lockdown. Very different.

Errr…something something…Long Covid

176425 Paul, replying to Paul, 27, #1033 of 1967 🔗

A conversation overheard by my wife in a shop an hour ago,

Woman 1 ‘It’s bad you know,a person at the school has got a positive test’

Woman 2 ‘It is bad,I don’t know where it’s going,they say it’s doubling every minute’.

My wife said to me,’Bloody hell,we really are fucked,aren’t we ?’.

176429 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Paul, 10, #1034 of 1967 🔗

Fucking idiots. Roll up your sleeves and fuck off.

176435 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 6, #1035 of 1967 🔗

Paul, OT, you are wicked, but it’s very funny!

176445 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 9, #1036 of 1967 🔗

Yes,I’m going to string the BID along for as long as possible.I’m taking my inspiration from my dad,he sometimes keeps cold callers on the phone for ages relating ridiculously detailed and far-fetched fake family stories to them whilst all the time dropping little hints he might buy what they are selling.

176476 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Paul, 16, #1037 of 1967 🔗

According to my quickly fudged calculation, this means that in one hour, drum roll,

576,460,752,303,423,488 will be infected.

576 quadrillion people.

I don’t know about anyone else, but I don’t think lock down is going to help.

176503 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Cicatriz, 4, #1038 of 1967 🔗

$576 quadrillion is probably not far from the amount of money that the global mafia are planning to steal before their getaway.

176519 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Richard O, 1, #1039 of 1967 🔗

Yeah, it might be enough to underpin the global derivatives market when that pops. That’s supposedly in the quadrillions.

176518 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Cicatriz, 3, #1040 of 1967 🔗

I know,but if it saves just one life………..

176520 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Paul, 8, #1041 of 1967 🔗

“Woman 2 ‘It is bad,I don’t know where it’s going,they say it’s doubling every minute’.”

Sounds about right.

176426 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 9, #1042 of 1967 🔗


Cleaning your glasses with your mask in parliament. You couldn’t make it up!

176434 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Sarigan, 3, #1043 of 1967 🔗

Love it

176432 John Stone, replying to John Stone, 13, #1044 of 1967 🔗

Unlicensed vaccines (“Trumph” and “Ambush”) next month? My letter to BMJ Rapid: Responses:

Government proposing to roll out “Triumph” and “Ambush” vaccines next month? Re: Covid-19: Government poised to amend regulations to allow use of unlicensed vaccine Clare Dyer. 370:doi 10.1136/bmj.m3757
Dear Editor
Following Clare Dyer’s disturbing report [1] it does indeed look as if the government may be intending roll out two unlicensed Covid vaccine products as early as next month. In a BBC report last week which seemed so fanciful I was inclined to ignore it products were injudiciously codenamed by government agencies as “Triumph” and “Ambush”. The report by Michele Paduano, however, is still there and states [2]:

“Mass vaccination sites and mobile facilities are being commissioned as part of as a “fairly massive exercise”…According to the document, the two vaccines are called Ambush and Triumph…Ambush needs to be stored at -70C (-94F) and kept in hospitals due to regulations set down by the Medicines Health Regulatory Authority.“

The “Triumph“ vaccine is believed to be the Oxford Astra Zeneca product which has to be administered twice within 28 days. The refrigeration requirements for the “Ambush” vaccine fit the the profile of both the Moderna and Pfizer products [3]. A similar but less detailed report has now appeared in the Sun newspaper [4].

All three vaccines have been criticised for their effectiveness by Peter Doshi and Eric Topol in the New York Times [5] and by William Haseltine in the Washington Post [6]. Both the Oxford and Moderna vaccines are known to have unpleasant side-effects [7]. The Oxford vaccine when I last heard was still under investigation by the FDA [8].
Against which background one can only echo once again the editor’s call a few weeks ago for “Less haste, more safety”.

[1] Clare Dyer, ‘Covid-19: Government poised to amend regulations to allow use of unlicensed vaccine’, BMJ 2020; 370 doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.m3757 (Published 28 September 2020)
[2] Michele Paduano, ‘ Coronavirus: Doctors told to plan for vaccination scheme’, BBC News 2 October 2020, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-54375643
[3] Jaimy Lee, ‘ Moderna and Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine candidates require ultra-low temperatures, raising questions about storage, distribution’, MSN 31 August 2020, https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/moderna-and-pfizer-e2-80-99s-co
[4] Nick McDermott, ‘ VACCINE BOOST Covid vaccine to be rolled out by NHS from next month with tens of thousands of people to get jabs daily by Christmas’, The Sun 8 October 2020, https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12872851/covid-vaccine-nhs-jab-christmas/
[4] Jaimy Lee, ‘ Moderna and Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine candidates require ultra-low temperatures, raising questions about storage, distribution’, MSN 31 August 2020, https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/moderna-and-pfizer-e2-80-99s-co
[5] Peter Doshi &Eric Topol, ‘ These Coronavirus Trials Don’t Answer the One Question We Need to Know’, New York Times 22 September 2020, https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/22/opinion/covid-vaccine-coronavirus.html
[6] WillIam Haseltine, ‘Beware of covid-19 vaccine trials designed to succeed from the start’, Washington Post 22 September 2020, https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/09/22/beware-covid-19-vacci
[7] Hilda Bastian, ‘ Covid-19 Vaccines With ‘Minor Side Effects’ Could Still Be Pretty Bad’, Wired 21 July 2020, https://www.wired.com/story/covid-19-vaccines-with-minor-side-effects-co
[8] Daniella Genovese, ‘ FDA widens probe into AstraZeneca’s US coronavirus vaccine trial: report’, FOXBuisness 1October 2020, https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/fda-widens-safety-inquiry-astrazenec
[9] Fiona Godlee, ‘ Covid-19: Less haste, more safety’,
BMJ 2020; 370 doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.m3258 (Published 20 August 2020)

176501 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to John Stone, 1, #1045 of 1967 🔗

Did you send to BMJ? I think at the beginning it said you have. Any news? Well done 👍🏼

176505 ▶▶▶ John Stone, replying to Country Mumkin, 2, #1046 of 1967 🔗

Yes, thanks, it is published.

176527 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to John Stone, 1, #1047 of 1967 🔗

Excellent submission.

Must be the army guy Generalissimo Sir Nick Carter that went for those names.
I wonder if they have a ‘Trojan Horse’ waiting in the wings…

176436 DRW, replying to DRW, 17, #1048 of 1967 🔗

Optimism is in very short supply these days, but I agree that things are looking better in the USA. The red states are mostly over it and are even looking at gradually re-opening stadia again, and a second Trump win (more likely than not in my view) will be a massive blow to the zealots. The blue states would then face an uphill economic struggle without stimulus and/or bailouts.

176549 ▶▶ leggy, replying to DRW, 3, #1049 of 1967 🔗

I’m still holding out hope that Trump may blow the lid off this whole thing as the finale to his pre-election campaigning. Find out soon enough.

176711 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to leggy, #1050 of 1967 🔗

Trump is on the radio for THREE HOURS straight at the moment! On the Rush Limbaugh show I believe..

176439 Steeve, replying to Steeve, 4, #1051 of 1967 🔗

A lot about PCR tests today .Have they value as a pre admission test for a hospital procedure if you are asymptomatic?

176469 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Steeve, 3, #1052 of 1967 🔗


176597 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Steeve, 3, #1053 of 1967 🔗

‘Just copied this off UK-Column news One of their viewers received the letter, below, cancelling her hysterectomy op because, although she was prepared to self-isolate for 14 days beforehand, she was not prepared to take a swab test. I checked the hospital, it’s KIMS in Kent. Notice the language used – pure emotional blackmail and once again, there’s only one show in town:

‘other patients [] some of them are very vulnerable because of long-term health conditions’; ‘in the best interests of us all.’

Hitler envisioned the ideal German society as a Volksgemeinschaft , a racially unified and hierarchically organized body in which the interests of individuals would be strictly subordinate to those of the nation, or Volk . Here it is, Volksgemeinschaft in action. MW


Dear —————

I am writing following our telephone conversation on 25 September 2020 to confirm that your hysterectomy, which was listed for 6 October 2020, has now been cancelled.

During our telephone conversation as well as in your pre-assessment, you made it very clear that you do not wish to have the pre-operative Covid swab done, although you are happy with the 14 day self-isolation.

I am afraid, therefore, that we cannot proceed with your surgical procedures on the planned date. The poliy of self-isolation and also Covid testing pior to surgery is a national policy and therefore we have to follow it to the letter. The aim of the pre-operative Covid swabbing is to provide objective evidence about your Covid carrier status, thus reducing the risk of transmission to other patients as some of them are very vulnerable because of long-term health conditions.

I have removed your name from our waiting list as the current policy is unlikely to change in the foreseeable future.

If you do change your mind and accept the above policy then I would be happy to reinstate you back on the waiting list for the procedure to be performed as soon as possible. I will also send you an appointment for a cafe to face consultation in my clinic in the next six to eight weeks.

I understand the above mentioned will not be to your satisfaction. However, I hope that you will appreciate that any decisions made during the Covid pandemic time are as a result of national rules and regulations, which are in the best interests of us all. Please do not hesitate to contact my secretary if you need to discuss further.

Kind regards
Yours sincerely,
Letter electronically verified by Clinician
Dr H Habeeb FRCOG
Consultant Obstetrician & Gynaecologist

176951 ▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #1054 of 1967 🔗

Interesting – many thanks!

177009 ▶▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #1055 of 1967 🔗

I’d been wondering what would happen to anyone who refused a test.

176441 swedenborg, 3, #1056 of 1967 🔗


This twitter thread about China and C-19 a psy op operation. Many would disagree but this one has some interesting angles. Using “fleeing” scientists as dupes.

176444 Fingerache Philip., 25, #1057 of 1967 🔗

Reasons to be cheerful part 37.
Just returned from my dentist; rang bell, stepped back about 4 ft from door, ( as requested), after a few minutes l heard the sound of latches being pulled back and several locks being unlocked and a young girl appeared “blinking in the light.”
“I’ve come for my hygienist appointment” said I,”Ok,take a seat ( garden bench) I will tell the hygienist you are here” said she.
Eventually I went into the hygienist’s surgery and when I was asked “how are you?” I gathered up my courage and “came out” as a sceptic.
To my amazement, the hygienist and her assistant AGREED with me and said that they were in favour of herd immunity.
When my treatment was finished and I took my leave, I could’nt help but notice how her “industrial strength” mask had rubbed her face a deep shade of red above her nose; “how healthy, eh”
Leaving the dentist, I went to our local pharmacy to pick up a prescription; feeling “buoyed up,” when asked how I was?, I said “still sceptical,”to be met with “stony stares” from the staff.
Still: To misquote Meat loaf :” 1 out of 2 ain’t bad”

176446 Leemc23, 10, #1058 of 1967 🔗

Ivor Cummings on the James Delingpod podcast is well worth a listen this week.

176447 John P, 29, #1059 of 1967 🔗

There’s a lot of cancer in my family, my Great Uncle lost his two sons together in a car crash. My Grandmother’s first husband was killed in the war. Life doesn’t come with a minimum guarantee, and believing our political class should provide one is madness.

Though it goes without saying that if we could do this without risk to livelihood, mental health, treatments & services and our children’s future I’d be up for it. This is about the damage being done in pursuit of the impossible. – Kirstie Allsopp

I’ve quoted Kirstie Allsopp from twitter a number of times this week. I’ve been quite impressed with her. I’m not sure she’s a full-on lockdown sceptic, but she has certainly been asking some searching questions of late.

She does come from perhaps quite a privileged background, being the daughter of a baron, but people from wealthy backgrounds are still human and suffer their fair share of heartbreak and personal tragedy.

176452 Dan Clarke, 9, #1060 of 1967 🔗

The feeling is that the government are so committed/Tied to the Gates Foundation, Blair Foundation, their choice of Pharma companies, that they do not want to hear any opposing views at all.

176453 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 7, #1061 of 1967 🔗

good spectator tv this week – prof from who says – don’t lockdown – just makes poor poorer.
Also much of who’s new ‘middle way’ is bit like what was working in march before panic lockdown bollocks; wash hands, distance where practical, stay home if ill, protect the vulnerable (new bit is the irrational mask nonsence)

176472 ▶▶ smileymiley, replying to Major Panic, 2, #1062 of 1967 🔗

Yes he spoilt it all by saying everyone must wear muzzles!

176509 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 2, #1063 of 1967 🔗

FUtube will be busy uncensoring antilockdown stuff – and blocking the pro-lockdown peeps going against who guidlines

176534 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Major Panic, 1, #1064 of 1967 🔗

Over the summer, Facebook censorbots were taking down actual second hand WHO statements.

176532 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Major Panic, 2, #1065 of 1967 🔗

Any WHO policy only lasts until the next donation bill.

176456 T. Prince, replying to T. Prince, 32, #1066 of 1967 🔗

Just got back from Tesco Stretford. Heard the best put down in recent weeks. I passed two blokes having an altercation, I presume one had called the other out for wearing his mask under his nose and as he walked away, mask under nose guy said ‘don’t forget to buy your tampons you f*****g pussy’.Cue spontaneous laughter from at least six fellow shoppers!

176490 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to T. Prince, 3, #1067 of 1967 🔗

That’s a rubbish putdown, even from a mask-wearer. What is the hilarious correlation between being female and being weak? If two male idiots want to throw pointless insults at each other other through their masks then they could at least call each other d*cks/kn*bs and avoid insulting women!

176508 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, 13, #1068 of 1967 🔗

Ah come on. Men have been calling each other women as a put down since the dawn of time. It’s class 101 on insults really.

176586 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, 2, #1069 of 1967 🔗

As a matter of objective fact, women are very considerably weaker than men.

There’s some overlap, obviously, so some women are stronger than some men, but most people, indoctrinated as we are in stories of girl warriors and ideological equalityism, considerably underestimate the actual difference. One study of grip strength found that 90% of females produced less force than 95% of males. Even comparing average young men with female elite athletes from sports requiring high hand-grip forces (judo, handball were the examples given), the women on average were only at the 25th percentile of the male strength range, meaning most average men are stronger than elite female athletes, in this regard.

Which is one of the reasons why calling rival men effeminate has always been one of the most basic and commonplace of insults, even where, as in this case, the kind of weakness implied isn’t necessarily physical.

176664 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Mark, #1070 of 1967 🔗

thats why the australian womens football team (ranked 5th in the world), when they had a practice match with a local under 15s boys team got stuffed 7-0
And also why there is the fuss about the south african runner caster semenya who runs as a woman but due to a hormone imbalance has a male physique

176688 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to mjr, #1071 of 1967 🔗

Indeed. I’ve watched the England women’s team getting thrashed by a male youth side before now as well.

This is all stuff that would have been regarded as unremarkable a generation ago. What interests me are what the results will be of the modern delusional but strongly culturally pushed idea that women are, by and large, comparable to men in strength and personal combat ability. There are usually costs to be paid for mistaking ideologically based wishful thinking for reality.

176458 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 14, #1072 of 1967 🔗

A small sample but apply to the UK??

Half of COVID-19 patients in hospital in Devon and Cornwall were not admitted for the virus

176463 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Sarigan, 5, #1073 of 1967 🔗

.. and given the confusion of symptoms – how many actually had Covid, I wonder?

176464 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Sarigan, 7, #1074 of 1967 🔗

I’m tired of saying this, but once again, this is the real headline that the press should be leading with.

You know, along with the CDC stating the CFR is 0.14%.

176465 DocRC, 24, #1075 of 1967 🔗

So here we all are, standing back and watching in dismay as Boris, Lt Gruber and Co. continue to dig their hole. Back at the beginning of May, the hole was still shallow enough that they could have climbed out- the NHS had not been overwhelmed and it was clear that the epidemic was over in most parts of the UK. The virus could have circulated amongst the non-vulnerable population and we would have been pretty much over this by now- witness the situation in Sweden. I don’t know if there is a way out for them as we are stuck in the death spiral of more testing= more (asymptomatic) “cases”= more local lockdowns= economic melt-down.

Still, it’s not all bad: I am off for some R&R in Rhodes which will at least raise my morale, not to mention my vitamin-D levels for the winter!

176470 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 24, #1076 of 1967 🔗

Edinburgh Woollen Mills about to go into administration; 24,000 jobs at risk.


Meanwhile Mrs and Mr Sturgeon are earning upwards of £300,000 pa between them.

But they understand that we are in challenging times and We Must Stop The Spread, so sacrifices have to be made.

I know of a few sacrifices which I’d like to make.

Suggestions welcome.

176477 ▶▶ Paul, replying to wendyk, 10, #1077 of 1967 🔗

It’s always those that don’t have to make sacrifices that say they have to be made,a bit like those with loads of money who say ‘money isn’t everything’.

176488 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Paul, 12, #1078 of 1967 🔗

Exactamundo! There’ll be the usual patronising, frankly insulting sound bites-‘we’re all in it together’- but most of these handsomely paid criminals have no idea of what it’s like to have no money, no hope and no prospects.

And how many have run a successful business?

176482 ▶▶ DocRC, replying to wendyk, 7, #1079 of 1967 🔗

Perhaps we could pour boiling oil into the hole which the Government have dug for themselves!

176491 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to DocRC, 2, #1080 of 1967 🔗

How about high alumina cement?Boiling oil first, then, cooled, cement.

176489 ▶▶ chaos, replying to wendyk, 1, #1081 of 1967 🔗

Jaegar and Peacock, like Lyle and Pringle.. haven’t made stuff in the UK for years. Obviously I feel sorry for the shop and office staff. What a mess this country is in. We make nothing.. and now we are being forced into a fake green totalitarian track and trace prison.

176497 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to chaos, 1, #1082 of 1967 🔗

All outsourced to the PRC I suppose, but even so, look at the number of probable redundancies.

176536 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to wendyk, 2, #1083 of 1967 🔗

Edinburgh Woollen Mill is the parent company of Peacocks, Jaeger, Bonmarché & a few smaller brands.

I wondered what accounted for 24k jobs.

176547 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Dave #KBF, #1084 of 1967 🔗

Presumably all the various outlets and admin and distribution staff for the entire group.

Several news reports quote the 24,000 figure, but don’t give much more detail.

176728 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Dave #KBF, #1085 of 1967 🔗

From their Wikipedia article. I know, not the best source, but readily to hand.

EWM have 3,579 employees. Their retail empire consists of

265 Edinburgh Woollen Mill stores
479 Peacocks stores
107 Ponden Home stores
88 tourist shops and visitor centres trading under various fascias (e.g. James Pringle Weavers)
27 destination sites combining all the Group’s concepts (e.g. Masson Mill)
A number of tourist attractions, including the Scottish Deer Centre in Fife and the Scottish Wool Centre in Perthshire.

Perhaps they’re counting all the indirect job losses as well as all these employees will be skint?

176582 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to wendyk, 4, #1086 of 1967 🔗

They might be being paid £300k but they’re certainly not earning it.

176702 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to wendyk, 3, #1087 of 1967 🔗

They’re certainly not worth it – the Sturgeons that is. Neither are any politicians.

Maybe they should take a massive pay cut, no expenses claimed and no pensions either.

They’re wrecking this country’s economy and society so they should share the pain as well.

176483 chaos, replying to chaos, 2, #1088 of 1967 🔗

There’s a caller on talkradio now who sounds like Frank Sidebottom talking about how you can get the virus twice and so we must keep locked down.

176494 ▶▶ leggy, replying to chaos, #1089 of 1967 🔗


176499 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to chaos, 6, #1090 of 1967 🔗

I bet he’s great at parties

176504 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to chaos, 2, #1091 of 1967 🔗

nothings stopping him locking down against WHO guidlines – as I feel quite well I shall wash my hands and go to work in a distancy sort of way – and maskless

176507 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to chaos, 5, #1092 of 1967 🔗

As per the reports on Toby’s twitter feed as an upper respiratory tract infection you can be immune but catch the virus many times and your immune system will zap the infection every time but you will still test +ve with a test. If they ever develop a vaccine I suspect that will also be the case, immune to Covid 19 disease but still able to pick up enough virus to test +ve.
As I understand it that was the case with the guy in Hong Kong who was reported to have caught it a second time, he had no symptoms and his immune system zapped the virus but he still had enough virus in his upper respiratory tract to test +ve.

176526 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Steve Martindale, 6, #1093 of 1967 🔗

After about 500 amplification cycles…

176533 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Will, 3, #1094 of 1967 🔗

Probably, it is amazing that there still seems to be no standard for the PCR test and no quality assessment of the testing done by the private labs.

176550 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Will, 5, #1095 of 1967 🔗

Exactly. I was on a call with a molecular biologist last night who is very familiar with PCR and she said that by 48 cycles the fluorescent marker will appear on anything being tested. So basically 100% false positives if you amplify the specimen enough. With respect to anyone supposedly being infected again, it’s likely the test is merely picking up dead fragments of the virus they already cleared.

176569 ▶▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #1096 of 1967 🔗

Kary Mullis says pretty much exactly the same thing here and he invented the technique. He even got the Nobel prize in chemistry for it. 48:30 onwards.


176525 ▶▶ Will, replying to chaos, 4, #1097 of 1967 🔗

Shielding is an absolute doddle and doesn’t require anyone else to compromise their lives. I know because we did it for months. If he wants to lockdown, let him.

176500 Darryl, replying to Darryl, 11, #1098 of 1967 🔗

I see over 400 people from the arts protested outside parliament this week (no problems with the numbers here) https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-liam-gallagher-hits-out-at-government-dopes-as-musicians-protest-near-parliament-12091731 .

Disappointingly I get the impression (I may be wrong?) that they are happy / entirely supportive of the lockdown and loss of civil liberties but just not happy with how much money they have been given by the state. Very depressing to see them all outside standing 2 metres away from each other and wearing masks – it makes it look like we really are living during a deadly plague. Why could they be less half hearted and actually call out the complete nonsense going on?

176511 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Darryl, 12, #1099 of 1967 🔗

If anyone wears a mask at a protest, they are not protesting. They are at a pro-government rally. BLM and XR being prime examples.

176517 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Richard O, 6, #1100 of 1967 🔗

It just looked a complete joke – socially distancing and wearing masks. Technically the organiser (a Union?) should be fined £10,000 and the Territorial Support Group should have broken them up. Political policing.

176708 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Darryl, 2, #1101 of 1967 🔗

How did they play wind instruments wearing masks?

176583 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to Darryl, 3, #1102 of 1967 🔗

Most people who work in the arts are entirely behind this lunacy. Used to subsidy, they are public sector workers by extension.

176514 Hannahbanana, replying to Hannahbanana, 9, #1103 of 1967 🔗

The significance of vitamin D is also relevant to the prevalence of the disease and lower immunity of those who are not white but live in a northern hemisphere/not-of-ancestral-origin country. Vitamin D is produced by those with lower melanin (whiter skin) at a lower threshold, whereas darker skin demands a higher amount of sun exposure to produce vitamin D. This means that a deficiency is more likely for those with higher melanin with low sun exposure.
so there are 2 lessons:

  1. vitamin D IS significant, even more so if you are not white but live in a place with less sun.
  2. people should be screeching less about racism being the reason for increased prevalence in certain demographics. That’s not to rule out other factors like socioeconomic, living arrangements, metabolic health and comorbidity.
176523 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Hannahbanana, 9, #1104 of 1967 🔗

I always thought it was wrong when people were castigated for sunbathing during lock-down when clearly everyone should have been told to get out there and soak up those rays.

176560 ▶▶▶ Michael C, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #1105 of 1967 🔗

Arguably the worst error of the Government in the early stages of the lockdown during the finest spring in living memory. I hope those ‘plods’ photographed moving on sunbathers in the park, not to forget those councils who put tape around park benches etc., are hanging their heads in embarrassment – “only doing my job sir”.

176542 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Hannahbanana, 9, #1106 of 1967 🔗

I urge everyone to take a high quality Vitamin D3 supplement (I use a spray) and combine it with Vitamin K2 (facilitates the uptake of the Vitamin D) — they need to be taken together. And don’t just go for the RDA of 1000 units as it’s not nearly enough. I’ve had my Vitamin D levels checked in the past and they have been very low, so I take 8000 units per day. I’ve added Vitamin C, magnesium and zinc to my daily regimen as well. At a time when so much is out of our control, we can at least try to maintain our health.

176707 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 2, #1107 of 1967 🔗

I’m taking 2000 units and I thought that was a lot!

176714 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Carrie, 2, #1108 of 1967 🔗

I take 4000 units and have done so for years, well, from the autumnal equinox through the vernal equinox.

176646 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Hannahbanana, 3, #1109 of 1967 🔗

I don’t understand why they don’t just recommend it anyway since at this latitude nearly everyone is deficient over the winter.

176516 John P, replying to John P, 8, #1110 of 1967 🔗

Don’t know if this has been posted:

“The Coronavirus (Retention of Fingerprints and DNA Profiles in the Interests of National Security) (No. 2) Regulations 2020

The Secretary of State makes the following Regulations in exercise of the powers conferred by section 24(2), (4) and (8) of the Coronavirus Act 2020(1).

The Secretary of State, in accordance with section 24(3) of that Act, considers that coronavirus is having, or is likely to have, an adverse effect on the capacity of persons responsible for making national security determinations to consider whether to make, or renew, national security determinations and that it is in the interests of national security to retain the fingerprints or DNA profiles as provided for in these Regulations.”


Mmm, smell those cattle droppings!

What possible good cause can they have for doing this?

176524 ▶▶ leggy, replying to John P, 1, #1111 of 1967 🔗

Yeah, has been posted a few times but always worth reposting. Another famous Statutory Instrument.

176528 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to John P, 2, #1112 of 1967 🔗

Saw this a few weeks back courtesy of another eagle-eyed commenter on here.

A fundamental breach of data privacy slips into law under the radar in a matter of weeks.

Made at 2.54 p.m. on 10th September 2020
Laid before Parliament at 4.00 p.m. on 10th September 2020
Coming into force 1st October 2020

I wonder if the PCR test samples are finding their way into this DNA database?

176540 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Richard O, 1, #1113 of 1967 🔗

Re, the PCR samples – the question has been asked several times, but no one seems to know.

176554 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Tenchy, 7, #1114 of 1967 🔗

If a government spokesperson actually made the following statement, I would have no problems whatsoever:

The PCR tests are meaningless as a diagnostic tool for respiratory viruses. However under the new regulations they do allow us to store the DNA profile of every citizen that submits to a test. We cannot tell you the reason we are doing this because you would not believe it, but rest assured it is not in your best interests. After our brilliantly successful social engineering experiment with masks, we know that a majority of you will unquestioningly comply with all our diktats, so our testing programme will continue to be ramped up.

176541 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Richard O, 1, #1115 of 1967 🔗

Odds on.

176548 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Richard O, 1, #1116 of 1967 🔗

Never let a crisis go to waste.

176567 ▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #1117 of 1967 🔗

Especially if you’ve gone to extra special lengths to create it.

176594 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to John P, 3, #1118 of 1967 🔗

What the hell ? Why would they need to retain DNA or finger prints for a viral infection ?

176705 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Leemc23, #1119 of 1967 🔗

Fingerprints particularly are totally unjustified..

Does anyone know if other governments have enacted similar legislation?

176701 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to John P, 1, #1120 of 1967 🔗

It would be good to see how the courts would decide here, with regards to proportionality of the government’s measures (which is what Simon Dolan’s main case is all about)…

176521 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 18, #1121 of 1967 🔗

Much hand wringing on the news on how the NHS is about to be overwhelmed and so I looked at today’s NHS Engalnd stats and yes total covid 19 patients in English NHS hospitals has gone up by ……. 46 from 3044 yesterday to 3090 today. That is a 1.5% increase in one day. So clearly the NHS is totally overwhelmed and we must quickly lock down everything and put on sackcloth and ashes and whimper in our wood-sheds.

176538 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Steve Martindale, 9, #1122 of 1967 🔗

Might be time for me to break out the cloak, handcart, bell and start the “bring out your dead” lap of the village then.

176578 ▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to leggy, 1, #1123 of 1967 🔗


176587 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Steve Martindale, 5, #1124 of 1967 🔗

I had my life saved by the NHS emergency departments twice. Emergency care can be great, the post emergency care is humiliating, degrading and haunts me every day. So in my experience I think the whole is not fit for purpose and I do not get how it’s become this new religion.

176872 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Leemc23, 3, #1125 of 1967 🔗

Not at all my experience. Be careful of generalisations.

176522 Biggles, replying to Biggles, 31, #1126 of 1967 🔗

Well we have another convert. Mrs Biggles usually meets up with a group of five of her ex school friends for lunch at least once a month. Of the five, Linda was chief bedwetter and wouldn’t join in with the rest of them during the summer, but they are meeting up next Thursday and she is coming along.

More than that, Mrs B has just had a long conversation with her on the phone and she is now of the opinion that everything associated with lockdown will be worse than the effects of the virus. Considering where she was four months ago this is a big change.

176593 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to Biggles, 4, #1127 of 1967 🔗

Some promising conversations this week with colleagues who even until quite recently were card-carrying zealots and are now thoroughly pissed off and wanting an end to it. All are parents, all have had a child sent home from school to self-isolate.

176531 smileymiley, 3, #1128 of 1967 🔗

A good piece about the futility of Track and Trace


176537 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 7, #1129 of 1967 🔗

Today saw a 21% reduction in the number of “cases”. I wonder if the MSM will portray it in that way?

176546 ▶▶ Michael C, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1130 of 1967 🔗

They’ll probably switch to highlighting deaths which were around 12% higher!

176552 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Tenchy, 4, #1131 of 1967 🔗

Don’t be ridiculous 😀

176581 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1132 of 1967 🔗

Nope. They are talking about how they have doubled in a week and might be 40,000 a day now….

176640 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1133 of 1967 🔗

Probably just lost another spreadsheet or two.

Or run out of students to test…

176555 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #1135 of 1967 🔗

Edinburgh woollen mill is calling in the administrators to try to save 21,000 jobs.
How much more will it take for the collaborators to remove their blinkers (and masks)?

176563 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1136 of 1967 🔗

Government bungs will keep them all quiet.

176656 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Richard O, 1, #1137 of 1967 🔗

Yes,but bungs won’t go on forever.

176556 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #1138 of 1967 🔗

Another FOI answer back about how much scientific evidence etc central government have given local councils to justify local measures and lockdowns or how much research they have done themselves:

“Please find information provided by the relevant service team(s) below.

Regarding Questions 1 – 5

Providing explanation or opinion is not within scope of the Freedom of Information Act. The scope is limited to providing ‘recorded information’. I am advised by the relevant council team that we do not hold information and that you should contact the Department of Health and Social Care again, or Public Health England.

Regarding Questions 6 and 7

The relevant council team have advised that no such documents have been received or held by the council.”

So again – no evidence, no research, no justifications.

176565 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #1139 of 1967 🔗

They might just as well have replied with this:

Providing information is not within the scope of the Freedom of Information Act.

176579 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Richard O, 1, #1140 of 1967 🔗

They did say this but answered the question anyway which was good of them – they do not hold the information.

176588 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #1141 of 1967 🔗

It is remarkable that they have openly admitted that no rationale has been provided for any of the regulations that they are enforcing.

Your sterling efforts as ever are appreciated.

176603 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Richard O, 2, #1142 of 1967 🔗

That’s the 3rd councils admitted it in 2 days.

176698 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1143 of 1967 🔗

Can you (if you have not already) send Simon Dolan copies of your FOI requests and the answers (or not) that you get?

176759 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1144 of 1967 🔗


I would have thought that this might be grounds for Judicial Review if (which is effectively the case) constraints on human rights have been opposed on a whim, rather than a rationale.

176573 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 5, #1145 of 1967 🔗

Australians vaccine

If people “choose” not to, there needs to be an incentive/stick…


176590 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Country Mumkin, 5, #1146 of 1967 🔗

An extreme knob-head.

176634 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Country Mumkin, 3, #1147 of 1967 🔗

Truly shocking. Possibly the biggest indicator so far that we’re dealing with a far bigger agenda. If this doesn’t wake people up, nothing will.

176929 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Nick Rose, #1149 of 1967 🔗

That health minister has an unfortunate, but very apt, name.

176990 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1150 of 1967 🔗

Is this coercion? I’d say it pretty much was compulsory, just in an abusive way, to make it sound like you have a choice but don’t.

I’m not sure that will work in the Uk. I’m pretty certain people will push back on that.

176577 zacaway, replying to zacaway, 47, #1151 of 1967 🔗

I received some encouraging news from my son’s school today:

I write to advise you that a member of XXX School has been confirmed as testing positive for COVID-19.

There is no further action to take because the member of staff had not been in school in the two days prior to showing symptoms.

Please be reassured that for most people, coronavirus (COVID-19) will be a mild illness.

The school remains open and your child should continue to attend if they remain well.

There are things you can do to help reduce the risk of you and anyone you live with getting ill with COVID-19

• wash your hands with soap and water often – do this for at least 20 seconds

• use hand sanitiser gel if soap and water are not available

• wash your hands as soon as you get home

• cover your mouth and nose with a tissue or your sleeve (not your hands) when you cough or sneeze

• put used tissues in the bin immediately and wash your hands afterwards

Firstly, no bed-wetting closing down of the school when one member of staff got a positive test (and described as such, not as a “case”).

Secondly, actually stating the Covid is a mild illness! :-O

Thirdly, conspicuously absent from the list of (pretty sensible) things you can do to stop the spread of Covid is: mask-wearing!! :-O :-O

I’m quite impressed with the school’s leadership. Maybe there are more closet sceptics out there than I thought.

176584 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to zacaway, 7, #1152 of 1967 🔗

That is excellent news. All is not lost!

176612 ▶▶ Will, replying to zacaway, 6, #1153 of 1967 🔗

There are loads more sceptics out there than the media and you gov would have everyone believe.

176620 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to zacaway, 6, #1154 of 1967 🔗

Please be reassured that for most people, coronavirus (COVID-19) will be a mild illness.”

So good to see a school letter with that in there.

176631 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to zacaway, 4, #1155 of 1967 🔗

Yes that looked almost Swedish or Texan in its sensible approach.

176660 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to zacaway, 4, #1156 of 1967 🔗

This made my day!! More power to their elbow!

176676 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #1157 of 1967 🔗

Yes, wrote back to thank the head for their calm and measured response, just to let them know at least one parent is not a bed-wetter.

176758 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to zacaway, 2, #1158 of 1967 🔗

One of our schools has a similar approach thankfully.

176849 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to zacaway, 1, #1159 of 1967 🔗

Good positive news to start the weekend, cheers!

176592 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 11, #1160 of 1967 🔗

Crimes against humanity

UK Only: If you feel you have been harmed in any way, whether psychologically, emotionally, financially or otherwise, because of Covid restrictions, please email Leah Butler-Smith at: ClassActionCovidUK@protonmail.com

see link for more details


176595 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Victoria, 9, #1161 of 1967 🔗

Blimey, she could be rather busy over the next few decades. Nice work if you can get it.

176671 ▶▶ Jakehadlee, replying to Victoria, 7, #1162 of 1967 🔗

Well I’m a professional musician so yes, I’ve been harmed financially, emotionally and psychologically- I’m all over that shit

176680 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Victoria, 2, #1163 of 1967 🔗

I knew these would start coming :o)) My sympathies lie with those suing.

176689 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Victoria, 2, #1164 of 1967 🔗

That’s practically the entire country isn’t it?

176844 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Victoria, 1, #1165 of 1967 🔗

The magic money tree needs to become a forest pretty quickly!

176896 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Victoria, #1166 of 1967 🔗

Class actions don’t exist in UK, in USA they mostly enrich lawyers and pet ‘charities’.

177544 ▶▶▶ helen, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #1167 of 1967 🔗

And whats more its open to anyone ( providing the evidence of harm) from any country who wishes to join

176596 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1168 of 1967 🔗

Due to essential updates, the website and the API may be unstable or unresponsive between 5pm Friday (9 Oct) and 5am Saturday (10 Oct).

Wonder if there’ll be any draconian lockdown tweets this evening …

176608 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Cheezilla, #1169 of 1967 🔗

Which website?

176720 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Tenchy, #1170 of 1967 🔗


177100 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to leggy, #1171 of 1967 🔗

The HMG one.

176598 Basics, replying to Basics, 10, #1173 of 1967 🔗

The local rag presmearing begins:

“‘COVID hoax’ conspiracy theorists to protest in Edinburgh again on Saturday despite police warning
Police Scotland have urged the group not to go ahead with their gathering, as coronavirus cases continue to surge in the Lothians, and deaths increase.”

Edinburghlive has the story. Edinburghlive is loaded with bbc local democracy reporter embeds.

176604 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 19, #1174 of 1967 🔗

Same local rag has this

“Edinburgh bartenders to dump leftover ice outside Scottish Parliament tonight as industry ‘frozen’
The peaceful symbolic protest is set to take place this evening – with bartenders and owners from across the capital leaving their ample volumes of leftover ice outside the building”

176606 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Basics, 7, #1175 of 1967 🔗

Puerile name-calling. Reminds me of playgrounds in my childhood.

176677 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, #1176 of 1967 🔗

Are they stopping you from going?

176685 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Basics, 2, #1177 of 1967 🔗

You need to point out to them that 37 Governments came out this week as working with WEF and Commons Project. No theory.

176692 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to leggy, 2, #1178 of 1967 🔗

Gosh, was it that many????

176745 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to leggy, 1, #1180 of 1967 🔗

Thanks 🙂

176607 Mabel Cow, replying to Mabel Cow, 10, #1181 of 1967 🔗

Whilst driving past some bell-end who was cycling with a mask on, I wondered to myself whether there might be some mileage in loudly booing people who wear masks in the street.

Just an idle thought, at the end of yet another day of non-stop facepalming.

176652 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Mabel Cow, #1182 of 1967 🔗


176668 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mabel Cow, #1183 of 1967 🔗

Bleating at them is probably easier on the throat. Baaaaa….

176712 ▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to Mabel Cow, 4, #1184 of 1967 🔗

Major drama pass yesterday. Walked past two women who were together. One stopped dead when she saw us, then turned and forced herself almost, into some bushes, face turned away from us, should we infect with the LIERUS! The other walked past, sparked up a cigarette, and waited for her bedwetter mate to join her. As you see, this all about HEALTH!

176834 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Mabel Cow, 1, #1185 of 1967 🔗

I came off my bike as a kid and got concussion, after swallowing a fly. A mask might of helped in that one niche scenario.

176609 zacaway, replying to zacaway, 20, #1186 of 1967 🔗

The Sun is giving it to the Government with both barrels (by Lord Sumption):

Government may increase the death toll with unjust and insane measures, why are they doubling down on failure?

Reporting on the Great Barrington Declaration:

Instead of indiscriminate rules, we should be concentrating on protecting the vulnerable. The rest should be allowed to get on with normal life and acquire some natural immunity.

Coronavirus policy is being driven by Matt Hancock, a fanatic, and Boris Johnson, a muddled old bumbler.

The Government’s policy is founded upon a great lie — that we are all vulnerable to Covid so it is necessary to take over the lives of everyone.

Current policies have obviously failed to stop the spread of the virus. All they have done is extend the crisis.

What we are seeing now is not a second spike. It is the first spike, which the Government’s measures never tamed and which has come back to hit us. Just as their advisers told them it would, back in February and March.


176655 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to zacaway, 9, #1187 of 1967 🔗

Somebody needs to tell M’Lord that infections peaked before the original lockdown and that deaths peaked in early April. The lockdown didn’t actually suppress the virus (the Government advisors he’s referring to were Ferguson and his Merry Model who we have to thank for the ‘squashing the sombrero’ bollocks.)

This is neither the 1st nor the 2nd wave but a small rise in seasonal respiratory illnesses being spun out of all proportion by the mania for dodgy RT-PCR tests. It’s clear to everyone including the Govt (but not to the brainwashed) that the virus has done what viruses do. Our lockdown wasn’t draconian enough to suppress the virus, it was already far too late, and the only sensible thing now is to follow Prof Gupta’s advice, in the main, and accept we must have or damn near have herd immunity already. Unfortunately the Govt has its own agenda and shows no sign of doing this.

Anyway, speaking as a Grandma, I’ll assess my own risks, thank you very much, just as I always have. MW

176663 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to zacaway, 4, #1188 of 1967 🔗

Another coded message from a retired Supreme Court judge, addressed to the, er, Supreme Court. :o))

176683 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Nick Rose, #1189 of 1967 🔗

Good, next Thursday for the first hearing of Dolan’s case, I think. Unless the Government cooks up another delaying tactic.

176691 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to zacaway, #1190 of 1967 🔗

I’m wondering if that is why they pulled the vote on the curfew? If they had lost it then that would have helped Simon.

If they win against his injunction then they will double down…

176693 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to zacaway, 4, #1191 of 1967 🔗

I think the government were told to have all their files in by end of play today.

176743 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1192 of 1967 🔗


176611 John P, replying to John P, 13, #1193 of 1967 🔗

Apologies, if this has been posted already. Former BBC presenter Sue Cook interviewed by Anna Brees.


“Ex-BBC star Sue Cook, 71, accuses broadcaster of unbalanced Covid coverage and pushing too hard to shut down UK by forever ‘wheeling out’ ‘Professor Lockdown’ Neil Ferguson over other scientists.” (Daily Mail).

176621 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to John P, 6, #1194 of 1967 🔗

In the same interview she also commented on the (over) reliance on Devi Sridhar.

176623 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1195 of 1967 🔗

Yes, it’s a fascinating interview.

176682 ▶▶ leggy, replying to John P, 2, #1196 of 1967 🔗

Listened this morning, really good but slightly hesitant interview. Bottom line though – don’t trust the BBC.

176825 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to John P, #1197 of 1967 🔗

She could sway a lot of the older terrified age group.

176614 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 6, #1198 of 1967 🔗

Statistics are funny. Sometimes they can seem counterintuitive.

Take playing the lottery for example. The chance of an individual winning the jackpot in the UK National lottery are 1 in 45 million (not sure if this is up to date but the exact odds are not important here).

The chance of the jackpot being won tends to certainty over time with every subsequent draw, i.e. it’s almost certain to happen at some point. Something very unlikely is almost certain to happen.

If we relate this to our situation with this virus what it means is that the longer the virus is around the more likely somebody will catch it. By locking everyone down, as long as the virus is still circulating we are actually increasing the chances of vulnerable people catching it over time. Think of every interaction between 2 people as a lottery draw.

The quicker we get to some sort of herd immunity threshold the less likely a vulnerable individual will catch it, as long as they are protected during the time it takes to get there. In lottery terms, the more people with immunity there are the less draws can be made.

176675 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #1199 of 1967 🔗

Very good for pushing for herd immunity soonest. What a shame we wasted the summer. Should have sent students back earlier?

176778 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Nobody2020, #1200 of 1967 🔗

The chance of the jackpot being won tends to certainty over time “

Fallacy. Where did you get that from?

176950 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to RickH, #1201 of 1967 🔗

Unless the odds are zero, over an infinite number of attempts the probability will always tend to certainty.

176625 Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #1202 of 1967 🔗

I’m interested to know if anyine has pinned down the cafe vs restaurant vs bar vs pub debacle yet?

On twitter it’s clear confusion remains and SNP MSPs are revealing their total lack of understanding also.

Is there a clear definition out there yet?

176633 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Basics, 1, #1203 of 1967 🔗

Shut them all, then there will be no need to distinguish.

176868 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Basics, 1, #1204 of 1967 🔗

Maybe it’s because pubs/restaurants are the only places where you have to ‘track and trace’…….therefore that’s where the ‘cases’ will be found?

176626 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 3, #1205 of 1967 🔗

For a good explanation of why we are where we are right now; the lunacy of the testing regime:

‘The issues with PCR tests are numerous:

There can be large-scale test kit contamination as both the US and the UK (and several African countries) discovered during the early phase of the pandemic.


There can be testing site or lab contamination, which has led to…… school closures, nursing home quarantines, canceled sports events, and more.

The PCR test can react to other coronaviruses. According to lab examinations, this happens in about 1-3% of cases.

The PCR test can detect non-infectious virus fragments weeks after an active infection.

The PCR test can detect viable virus in quantities too small to be infectious

A PCR test is amplifying samples through repetitive cycles. The lower the virus concentration in the sample, the more cycles are needed to achieve a positive result. Many US labs work with 37-40 cycles while many European labs work with 30-40 cycles

….if a person gets a “positive” PCR test result at a cycle threshold of 35 or higher (as applied in most US labs and many European labs), the chance that the person is infectious is less than 3% . The chance that the person received a “false positive” result is 97% or higher.

Juliet Morrison, a virologist at the University of California, Riverside, explained to the New York Times: “Any test with a cycle threshold above 35 is too sensitive. I’m shocked that people would think that 40 could represent a positive. A more reasonable cutoff would be 30 to 35.”

…..while PCR tests at high-risk places like hospitals, nursing homes and other sensitive locations are vital and undisputed, the benefit of mass PCR testing in the general population, which is costing mid-sized countries billions, may be somewhat more debatable.’


Is there really no-one in government or in parliament who can get a grip of the senior medical advisors and confront them with these points, stop this madness?

176817 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #1206 of 1967 🔗

It’s criminal. I think it’s so widely reported now in media and medical journals that to not have a full review of PCR is now rendering out politicians complicit in fraud. With PCR all analysis of the spread of Covid is just hot air

176627 Will, replying to Will, 5, #1207 of 1967 🔗

Anyone heard a rumour that they might be pushing a vaccine before Christmas? Can’t believe it myself because I can’t see how that fits with the FDA protocols and I can’t see us licensing a vaccine before the yanks.

176639 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Richard O, 5, #1209 of 1967 🔗

Looks to me as though they are trying to get the logistics in place, in case an experimental vaccine does become available in the short term. As for a safe vaccine, I suspect it is a year or more away, and perhaps never.

176641 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Tenchy, #1210 of 1967 🔗

Judging by reports of strange, sudden deaths that are just coming in, I think there is a new pandemic about to start. Just as predicted by Dr. Gates.

176661 ▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Richard O, 1, #1211 of 1967 🔗

The Manchester one may be a suicide. We know it wouldn’t be the first because of this situation.

176684 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Richard O, 2, #1212 of 1967 🔗

I know I’m going down a real ‘rabbit hole’ here, but I’ve been reading quite a lot on the net recently about there being 2 strains of Covid, a lethal one and a less lethal one, both made in the Wuhan lab. It seems ‘the plan’ was to release the lethal one, but the vials were swapped.. Of course if the ‘right’ one had been released, then all the policies of the great reset would have been a lot easier for governments to enact, whereas now they are having to vastly exaggerate the seriousness and artificially inflate the case numbers.

This might explain Gates’ comments about people taking it seriously ‘next time’ – he would know that there already exists a more lethal version. Fauci has also said something similar.

As far as vaccines are concerned, I’m also wondering if one exists for the more lethal version, because that might explain the ‘hot mic’ comments from the US press conference where people were caught saying that ‘everyone here has been vaccinated’…

176695 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Carrie, 2, #1213 of 1967 🔗

Yes I remember that hot mic recording from the White House press briefing room. The journalists also admitted they already knew that the IFR was 0.1% to 0.3%. This was way back in April as I recall.

Being partial to speculation about alternative narratives myself, and given how much these topics can cause unnecessary disruption on here, I wonder if we should set up a separate forum to discuss these areas in greater detail with other like-minded contributors?

176741 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Richard O, #1214 of 1967 🔗

Good idea 🙂

176742 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Carrie, #1215 of 1967 🔗

I believe there is a forums area indirectly linked to this website. This might be the best place to start.

176719 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Muzz Off, replying to Carrie, 2, #1216 of 1967 🔗

This ‘mixup theory’ is the dumbest thing I’ve ever read, and I’m actually partial to conspiratorial explanations of this whole fiasco.

176737 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Muzz Off, #1217 of 1967 🔗

No one is saying it was an accidental mix-up; they write that money changed hands…

176809 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Carrie, #1218 of 1967 🔗

I’m sure I read something on reddit in the nosleep group. A short story

176697 ▶▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Richard O, 1, #1219 of 1967 🔗

And this time everyone will take notice…

176724 ▶▶▶ LS99, replying to Richard O, 2, #1220 of 1967 🔗

Didn’t The Sun say that Freddie Starr ate a hamster though or was that The Star?

176667 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Will, 1, #1221 of 1967 🔗

No, don’t worry about it – this vaccine is a bit like finding something in the back of a fridge and adding chilli sauce to it in the hope that it’s palatable.

176679 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Will, 3, #1222 of 1967 🔗

It won’t have to be licensed here though. That’s what the consultation was about. Unqualified people jabbing us with an unlicensed vaccine.

176835 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Will, 2, #1223 of 1967 🔗

can’t see how that fits with the FDA protocols”

It doesn’t – or any other protocols with a basis in reality.

Snake-oil selling.

176629 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #1224 of 1967 🔗

Manchester Evening News: University of Manchester student, 19, found dead in halls of residence.

176649 ▶▶ Will, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #1225 of 1967 🔗

Left wing academic friend of my BH posted some spurious piece of propaganda in this same organ about students in ICU. Didn’t givee Ed any numbers of course although was happy to post the numbers of the casedemic.

176651 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Tom Blackburn, 13, #1226 of 1967 🔗

That’s 5 students now, including the 4 who died in Newcastle due to drug-related complications (which are arguably indirectly linked to lockdown, because if the students had been allowed out of halls and been able to mix normally in communal areas, they would have been in far safer environments and perhaps wouldn’t have turned to dangerous drug sources). How many more people need to die needlessly before the public says ‘enough’?

176672 ▶▶▶ Telpin, replying to Poppy, 14, #1227 of 1967 🔗

My daughter, a second year student made the same point. She reported that there had been first years getting v sick with over drinking and found going out onto the roof – but in her words, when the college hadn’t organised any communal freshers events and had closed any communal spaces ( where they’d have been in more regulated, supervised surroundings) what else can you expect. These are 18 year olds for goodness sake – cooped up in their homes for over 6 months. They’d be much safer in college bars / night clubs. I fear there’ll be more avoidable drugs/ drinking accidents to come

176839 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Poppy, #1228 of 1967 🔗

To be consistent, we have to resist speculation and stick to comparative contextual evidence. Hard facts.

176658 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #1229 of 1967 🔗

Possible suicide.

176635 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #1230 of 1967 🔗

Something very odd about this news story. The way it’s written it sounds like dead bodies just appeared. Also not sure why less than 5 people makes it problematic to be specific on the number:

Coronavirus outbreak at Edinburgh’s Western General Hospital as ‘small number of patients’ reported dead

In a statement, NHS Lothian said: “Sadly, a very small number of patients, who had tested positive for the virus, have since died. Our thoughts are with their family at this sad time. We are unable to be specific about the number because the total is fewer than five.

176638 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #1231 of 1967 🔗

Pandemic 2.

176642 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Nobody2020, 8, #1232 of 1967 🔗

The operative words are highlighted here:

a very small number of patients, who had tested positive for the virus , have since died.

176647 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1233 of 1967 🔗

Quite, it sounds like they died suddenly which woudn’t really fit with images of people on ventilators.

More detail required I think but doubt we’ll get it.

177075 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, #1234 of 1967 🔗

A very small number?
I thought people were dropping like flies in hospitals everywhere ….

176648 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #1235 of 1967 🔗

Less than 5, so they are unsure if they have 4, 3, 2, 1 or zero bodies. But they certainly all tested positive for Covid, but may or may not have died from Covid. Nincompoops.

176657 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to zacaway, 3, #1236 of 1967 🔗

It might be for privacy reasons. Just trying for a less suspicious reason.

176654 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #1237 of 1967 🔗

From edinburgh live civering the same story
“As well as a small number of deaths, the oncology ward in the hospital has been closed to new admissions and discharges after six other patients were confirmed to have the virus.”

The two publications may give identical information?

176673 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Basics, 4, #1238 of 1967 🔗

Fear porn by the look of it. MW

176735 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Basics, 4, #1239 of 1967 🔗

Clearly our friends, the BBC embedded Local Democracy Reporters are now being used as a team across all the local papers and ensuring that the same story is planted in all of them

177078 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, #1240 of 1967 🔗

Those are still tiny numbers for a system that’s on the brink of being overwhelmed.

176674 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #1242 of 1967 🔗

Can’t they count up to five?

176703 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #1243 of 1967 🔗

Propaganda bollocks. Fucking hell all those people in the country who tested + will die at some point. I can picture it now, 2027 we are all here to put poor Timmy to rest, he tested + in August 2020 ashes to ashes……dust to dust…..

176755 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #1244 of 1967 🔗

well if it is patients (plural) it cannot be 1 so it must be 2 3 or 4 (or if ferguson is counting , 3,732)

But i see it doesnt actually specify what they died of. So could be anything. And we all know what a positive test can mean .

So no substance to it … seems like they are just spinning a few deaths into a covid scare story

176829 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1245 of 1967 🔗

Just read this again. I think the story is that these people were in an Oncology ward (i.e. being treated for Cancer, not Covid). They’ve been infected (and killed) while in there.

That’s the point I was trying to make above.

177083 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ceriain, #1246 of 1967 🔗

So essentially they died OF cancer but WITH covid.

176846 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1247 of 1967 🔗

Even government (NHS) numbers of deaths make the scare stories look ridiculous.

176659 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 11, #1248 of 1967 🔗

Another one bites the dust:


How many more businesses will have to go under before the government does a mea culpa?

176662 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #1249 of 1967 🔗

How many businesses have you got?

176681 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #1250 of 1967 🔗

Can’t remember the multiplier effect for retail workers. But it’s quite large. So if you lose 21,000 jobs it then affects a certain amount more.

176690 ▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #1251 of 1967 🔗

you both raise a good point – I don’t know anything about the dynamics of the numbers of businesses that pay into our tax system which fund all our lives but some years ago I heard that our SME – small to medium sized businesses (under 250 employees) in the UK employed about 8 million people which were a sizeable voting constituent. I bet these SMEs and very small SMEs are more likely to fail – how many can the UK afford to lose – does anyone know?

176790 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Keen Cook, 2, #1252 of 1967 🔗

The latest ONS figures look horrible for SMEs, although if it’s like any of there other figures, take it with a pinch of salt.

176750 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #1253 of 1967 🔗

Surely it is part of the Plan?

177071 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to PastImperfect, #1254 of 1967 🔗

I’m sure it is.
And forget about any voting in future.

176666 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 15, #1255 of 1967 🔗

Demonstration at long care home Colorado
https://pagetwo.completecolorado.com/2020/10/08/greeley-nursing-home-residents-protest-pandemic-lockdown-id-rather-die-of-covid-than-loneliness/ Greeley nursing home residents protest pandemic lockdown: “I’d rather die of COVID than loneliness” “They are members of the greatest generation,” James said. “The very generation who fought to overturn tyranny and protect our freedoms. Now these members of that generation have had their freedom taken away via a tyrannous act by unelected bureaucrats. The governor and the CDPHE should immediately work with these facilities to give them a way by which they may hug their loved ones.”

176776 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1256 of 1967 🔗

Brilliant article, thanks for posting

177066 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to swedenborg, #1257 of 1967 🔗

“I’d rather die of COVID than loneliness”
My sentiment entirely!

Malcolm Kendrick described his experience of deaths by covid.


Compared with the experience of my Dad who had Parkinson’s and Mum who had cancer, covid sounded like a very gentle way for the elderly to depart.

176670 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 14, #1258 of 1967 🔗

“Why don’t you stop at home and look after your sick daughter?” asks a reporter to her father.
“Because I have to go to work to earn money”
Was this reporter and his bosses born stupid or did they practice?

176751 ▶▶ Old Mum, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #1259 of 1967 🔗

Probing questions to the public – not so much to the politicians?

176774 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Old Mum, 3, #1260 of 1967 🔗

General public: Easy targets.
Students: As above.
Young people: As above.
Pub goers: As above.
Public officials: “This is for the greater good, We’ve all got to work together,BLAH BLAH,BLAH.

177035 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Fingerache Philip., #1261 of 1967 🔗

As a backbench MP, I am afraid I do not have access to the information you have requested.

(Response from my MP today)

177057 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Cheezilla, #1262 of 1967 🔗

If information is a prerequisite for good decision making and they don’t have it, they shouldn’t get a raise. They should revolt. Respect for trying though!

177058 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tee Ell, 1, #1263 of 1967 🔗

I was tempted to point out to him that he’s just a very well-paid mushroom but thought better of it.

176678 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 6, #1264 of 1967 🔗


One more fallen idol for mask fanatics, Czehchia, one of the earliest with mandatory mask(in fact the obscure organisation masksforall registered there).Look at the current charts and also some citations from MSM below to get a laugh.

176686 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to swedenborg, 7, #1265 of 1967 🔗

Favourite comment: “Sweden still winning”.

176744 ▶▶ DRW, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1266 of 1967 🔗

Yet the tide is apparently turning.

176700 Danny, replying to Danny, 13, #1267 of 1967 🔗

The guardian running a high profile smear piece on the Barrington declaration tonight. Claiming the list is populated by fake names and homeopathy obsessives. Could this newspaper be any more partisan?

176709 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Danny, 8, #1268 of 1967 🔗

It will be remembered when the reckoning comes.

176716 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Danny, 2, #1269 of 1967 🔗

Same tactics as they use to smear the protests. Pick out the fringe elements and use em to tarnish the movement.

176723 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Danny, 1, #1270 of 1967 🔗

Let them give, say, 20 examples or 2000 examples, of fake names.

177024 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to PastImperfect, #1271 of 1967 🔗

They do give some. I wondered if they might have been put there by the 77th.

176733 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Danny, 2, #1272 of 1967 🔗

Oh yes? Checked every name on the list have they?

176768 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Carrie, 1, #1273 of 1967 🔗

Probably a key name search, looking for anyone they’ve got dirt on.

176752 ▶▶ Will, replying to Danny, 13, #1274 of 1967 🔗

I have made contact with an old friend, the most qualified scientist I have ever known and one of the brightest people I have ever met and he has signed the GBD. Nothing more to say about it as far as I am concerned.

176757 ▶▶ Francis, replying to Danny, 3, #1275 of 1967 🔗

So all they can manage is an ad hominem attack. Pathetic but, given the supine nature of its readership, probably effective..

176760 ▶▶ NappyFace, replying to Danny, 7, #1276 of 1967 🔗

Last year I was donating to the Guardian. Now I have no other word for that rag than evil.

176842 ▶▶▶ Jakehadlee, replying to NappyFace, 2, #1277 of 1967 🔗

I hate the Guardian with a passion but I’d did like their sports coverage and used to read that. I’ve now vowed never to read another word they publish.

Thankfully they are in trouble financially. I am looking forward to them dying.

176827 ▶▶ Schrodinger, replying to Danny, 8, #1278 of 1967 🔗

My wife signed it as a retired GP and my son signed it as PhD scientist (whose work has included PCR tests); if they are not qualified to sign it I wonder who is?

176833 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Danny, 2, #1279 of 1967 🔗

There are a lot of homeopathy obsessives then. More than 18k medical practitioners and scientists, over 167k from Joe Public.

176845 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Danny, #1280 of 1967 🔗

Funded by Bill Gates

176853 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Danny, 3, #1281 of 1967 🔗

The Groan can be safely disregarded as a source of accurate information. To have sunk below the Bile and Torygraph is its only accomplishment.

176887 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Danny, #1282 of 1967 🔗

Guradian is the epicentre of homeopathic, eco nutter ‘conspiracist ideation’.

177029 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #1283 of 1967 🔗

The anti GBD piece was very dismissive of homeopaths.

176706 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 7, #1284 of 1967 🔗

Telegraph live feed:

Britons more anxious about Covid than at any time since April

Anxiety levels among Britons have reached their highest level since April as fears about a second Covid wave grow, Government data shows.

The Office for National Statistics (ONS) analysed levels of anxiety between September 30 and October 4 and found they had increased to the highest level since the peak of the pandemic.

No. I don’t believe it. But if it is true, what would be the cause, I wonder?

176710 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Tenchy, 17, #1285 of 1967 🔗

I wouldn’t be surprised. People thought they were flattening the curve for a few weeks. Turns out they’re living in a dystopia with restrictions left, right and centre with the threat of the army against them if they don’t toe the line. I’m anxious too.

176731 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tenchy, 11, #1286 of 1967 🔗

I think they are more worried about the other effects of Covid on their lives – lockdown, no treatments for any other illness apart from Covid, job losses, no social lives, dystopian measures in schools and so on..

176823 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Carrie, 2, #1287 of 1967 🔗

The only problem is they and the mindless press keep saying an effect of Covid and it gets repeated.
As we all know its because of govt action, not a minor respiratory ailment.
Part of the general pushback is we need to keep correcting the phrasing

176957 ▶▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to Carrie, 3, #1288 of 1967 🔗

I miss my church social events,seeing my GP at regular intervals, being able to see a dentist when needed, being able to properly discuss my cats’ health with my vet rather than handing them over in the car park, having visitors round who aren’t too scared to visit, trips to the cinema and concerts. No wonder people in general including me feel depressed!

176765 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Tenchy, 9, #1289 of 1967 🔗

I think half of these poor sods are still scared out of their wits. One of my colleagues all but admitted that he was afraid to leave the house because “things were getting worse”.

If Pravda ever showed a graph of CV19 deaths as a % of all-cause deaths, the general public would be able to make up their own minds about the risks. But of course all they are shown are the testdemic fear-porn hockey-stick graphs.

I despair for these people, I really do. If they just turned off the poisonous spigot of shite that is the BBC, they’d feel a whole lot better about life.

176782 ▶▶ Stephanos, replying to Tenchy, 27, #1290 of 1967 🔗

I am anxious about all this but NOT for the reasons implied.I am anxious because:

  1. I cannot see any end to all of this nonsense
  2. I am anxious about new restrictions being cooked up.
  3. I am anxious about being FORCED to have a vaccination
  4. I am anxious if I need to go to a shop
  5. I am anxious about picking up a take-away meal

I am not anxious about the virus itself or catching it, I am anxious about the government’s response to it.
Has that distinction been made? I know the answer to that already.
Every day life gets worse in this country. Every single day.

176788 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Stephanos, 1, #1291 of 1967 🔗

My thoughts too.

176843 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to DRW, 7, #1292 of 1967 🔗

Maybe your anxiety will decline if you acknowledge that this is exactly what they want. You living in fear is exactly what they want. Frightened people are easily controlled. Get deliveries, don’t shop, learn to cook really well to avoid takeaways. Refuse a vaccination.. Never submit. I have a dental appointment tomorrow. I said I won’t wear a mask, didn’t say I was exempt. They were fine about it. We have allies everywhere, just a matter of time.

176796 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Stephanos, 5, #1293 of 1967 🔗

I’m anxious for those same reasons too,I know it’s daft but I worry about going to collect a takeaway in case of a confrontation with another customer,I don’t think I can keep my anger in anymore and I don’t want my wife to get a phone call from the Police station !.

177020 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Paul, #1294 of 1967 🔗

Our thoughts about what MIGHT happen are usually much much worse than what actually DOES happen.

176838 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Stephanos, 2, #1295 of 1967 🔗

Stop fretting and stay positive.

177013 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, #1296 of 1967 🔗

That’s over 5 days. Who did they find to ask and how did they have time to analyse it?

176713 Adam, replying to Adam, 23, #1297 of 1967 🔗

Face nappies should be bloody well illegal whilst driving!! (They should be banned anyway, but hey ho.) If you have a chip on your windscreen, your car would fail its MOT, or at best get an advisory, because it obscures your vision. Yet driving with a face nappy on, that obscures your peripheral vision or steams up your glasses, that causes you to have to adjust it constantly, is ok? How many accidents does there need to be caused by a driver wearing a face nappy before it us banned!!

176726 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Adam, 9, #1298 of 1967 🔗

Oxygen deprivation cannot be helpful for maintaining alertness whilst driving.

176756 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Richard O, 7, #1299 of 1967 🔗

And what’s worse, muzzled drivers (often old) seem to be proliferating round here. Our theory is that being older they are just following orders to the letter i.e. don’t take it off and put it on again so, if they’ve got more than one call to make, on stays the muzzle. MW

176754 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Adam, 2, #1300 of 1967 🔗

How thick can some people get?

176857 ▶▶▶ Adam, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1301 of 1967 🔗

Thick enough to walk around with a nappy stuck to their faces.

176771 ▶▶ Suitejb, replying to Adam, 3, #1302 of 1967 🔗

School bus went by our house earlier, completely empty as last drop off but driver was wearing a mask!

176810 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Suitejb, 2, #1303 of 1967 🔗

AFAIK, if there is an RTA, all you have to allege is that the other driver was wearing a mask” Yes officer – the other driver appeared to slump momentarily behind the wheel, I observed him wearing a mask”
Once you can allege driving whilst impaired, your own insurance co will do the rest.

177007 ▶▶ Paulski, replying to Adam, 3, #1304 of 1967 🔗

I am a driving instructor and you wouldn’t believe the number of instructors who not just wear masks but clearly insist upon it for their students as well.

Obviously I don’t wear one and virtually all of my pupils don’t either when I tell them I don’t expect them to wear one on my behalf.

Teaching people requires clear instructions, to be fully alert and also to keep hydrated as you may be constantly talking. It seems bonkers to assess the risk trade off in any other way but i am certainly in a minority in my trade and it almost goes without saying that masks are mandated on tests. I can’t go in the waiting room while the examiner is in my car though as this is a covid risk!

177106 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Paulski, #1305 of 1967 🔗

What happens if the test candidate is exempt, Paul ?

176715 Hoppy Uniatz, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 7, #1306 of 1967 🔗

Mind you, I don’t say the Great Reset is a thing. But , I have just come across this quote in Hayek’s “The Errors of Socialism” (1988). Really it’s amazing how it preemptively dissects the vacuous Build Back Better slogan:

“So priding itself on having built its world as if it had designed it, and blaming itself for not having designed it better, humankind is now to set out to do just that. The aim of socialism is not less than to effect a complete redesigning of our traditional morals, law and language, and on this basis to stamp out the old order and the supposedly inexorable, unjustifiable conditions that prevent the institution of reason, fulfilment, true freedom and justice.”

The other title of the book is “The Fatal Conceit,” – and this I take it can mean either the deadly idea of Utopia by design, or the disastrous arrogance of the men who want to inflict it on the rest of us NPCs.

176828 ▶▶ Jakehadlee, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 3, #1307 of 1967 🔗

All the greatest miseries of human history were caused by the delusion of a “better” society and the belief that humans are anything other than what we are – vicious bloody apes. Greed, war, hatred; it’s just what we do and we will never change. So the best thing to do is to accept it and mitigate it. Try to change it and the result is always, without exception, to unleash the very worst of us. There is no utopia – there can never be, we’re not a nice species and never will be.

177104 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jakehadlee, #1308 of 1967 🔗

Are you in a band called the Vicious Bloody Apes ?

177524 ▶▶▶ helen, replying to Jakehadlee, #1309 of 1967 🔗


176864 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, -4, #1310 of 1967 🔗

Yawn.Another deflection of the fact of the right wing initiative that is Blojob.

177520 ▶▶ helen, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, #1311 of 1967 🔗

Wonderful thoughtful comment many thanks

Try… Behold the pale horse

not so poetic ….painfully blunt

176722 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 15, #1312 of 1967 🔗

Even after all this time, I don’t think this is all some global conspiracy, although I doubt myself more and more often these days. I definitely think that there is something we are not being told, most likely that the virus was an accidental leak from the Wuhan lab causing government panic at the release of an “artificial” or manmade virus with unknown effects.

I remember weeks ago, second lockdowns being rumoured for October. Specifically October 15th was the date being discussed. Today we hear that the new traffic light system will be announced on Monday, to come into effect Wednesday night, i.e. the first full day will be Thursday. Which just happens to be the 15th.

Today is definitely one of those days when I am starting to doubt…

176730 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to A. Contrarian, 8, #1313 of 1967 🔗

Hmm, I get the feeling we are being softened up for something. I wonder if we will have the propaganda turned up to 11 and empty ambulances with sirens blaring driving about………

176832 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to stefarm, 1, #1314 of 1967 🔗

That’s been nonstop down here on the south coast for months. Really annoying. Five minutes after one stops, another starts.

176998 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to ConstantBees, #1315 of 1967 🔗

Cos they’ve nothing better to do!

176746 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to A. Contrarian, 7, #1316 of 1967 🔗

Oooh, the 15th is also when Dolan’s case’s first hearing is and when a Brexit deal is supposed to be agreed. Perhaps a full-moon too…

176836 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to zacaway, 1, #1317 of 1967 🔗

Oh yes! Forgot about the case hearing on the 15th too. Curiouser and curiouser…

176926 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to zacaway, 1, #1318 of 1967 🔗

its a NEW MOON, so a dark night. Perfect for skulduggery.

177004 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to zacaway, #1319 of 1967 🔗

No. Full moon was last week.
New Moon is October 16th.
That’s the time to begin something…….

176749 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to A. Contrarian, 7, #1320 of 1967 🔗

With things moving at such breakneck speed, speculation as to the how and why is diminishing in its immediate importance. Simply resisting the changes as they are forced upon us day by day has to be our focus.

A separate forum for discussing alternative narratives for those contributors who have the time and are interested is worth exploring.

176773 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1321 of 1967 🔗

It’s like the half term extension to keep schools closed and return to full lockdown. I’d say that’s been rumoured for a month now.

176995 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to A. Contrarian, #1322 of 1967 🔗

We’ve certainly “known” one was scheduled for the middle of October.

177038 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1323 of 1967 🔗

If the second lockdown happens after we have had plenty of warning then even the most ardent cock up theorists will have to question their beliefs

176727 zacaway, replying to zacaway, 28, #1324 of 1967 🔗

Spectator update is reporting growth for August was 2.1%, well below expectations, despite the Eat Out to Help Out scheme.

Also on here:

However, June was up 9.1% and July 6.4%. Could it be that introducing mandatory masks at the end of July kiboshed the economic recovery?

176910 ▶▶ jb12, replying to zacaway, 5, #1325 of 1967 🔗

They know that masks make the sheep think it is worse than it is. It is the same reason they are talking about making people queue outside of supermarkets again.

176753 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 17, #1326 of 1967 🔗


From just published Lancet study from Cambridge Lockdown kills those with severe dementia and severe mental illness 53%-123%

“In the two cohorts, 3,073 subjects were exposed to lockdown and 4,372 subjects were unexposed; the cohorts were followed up for an average of 74 days and 78 days, respectively. After controlling for confounding by sociodemographic factors, smoking status, mental comorbidities, and physical comorbidities, dementia patients suffered an additional 53% risk of death (HR = 1.53, 95% CI = 1.02-2.31), and patients with severe mental illness suffered an additional 123% risk of death (HR = 2.23, 95% CI = 1.42-3.49). No significant additional death risks were identified from physical comorbidities”.

 Almost unbelievable. Throw this study in front of Hancock and Johnson now and stop the madness.
Lockdown is mass murder on dementia and severe mental illness

176762 ▶▶ James, replying to swedenborg, 10, #1327 of 1967 🔗

They will not stop. I don’t know why, but I know they will not stop. If they were going to stop then they would have stopped by now.

176921 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to James, #1328 of 1967 🔗

Sums it up perfectly.

177031 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to James, 2, #1329 of 1967 🔗

Why would they stop it’s all they ever dreamed of.A pliant population and media hanging on their every word.The power to make law on a whim with no opposition.They will never willingly give this up

176816 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to swedenborg, #1330 of 1967 🔗


176889 ▶▶ Mark, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1331 of 1967 🔗

But those aren’t the kinds of deaths that matter. If by causing them to die we can save the life of one equally unwell and elderly person from covid, then their deaths are a price worth paying.

176935 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1332 of 1967 🔗

They don’t care, they want vaccines, a health passport and a new normal kind carbon zero utopia. At ANY cost.

176979 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1333 of 1967 🔗

That’s how the Nasties started. Mentally ill and disabled.

176993 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to swedenborg, #1334 of 1967 🔗

What exactly does severe mental illness mean? Presumably these were also care home victims?

176761 Edward, replying to Edward, 20, #1335 of 1967 🔗

Classic FM, around 6.40pm, regular as clockwork, daily coronavirus message from the government. Currently it’s the one about being fined if you don’t self-isolate when you’re told. Followed by the equally regular shout from me, “Fuck off, scumbags!”

176769 ▶▶ Jakehadlee, replying to Edward, 9, #1336 of 1967 🔗

I swear after literally every line of the adverts – start of the with Fs and Ss and graduate to Cs and MFs by the end.


176783 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Jakehadlee, 1, #1337 of 1967 🔗

I take it that “Talk radio” doesn’t run this nauseating drivel.
Genuine question.

176786 ▶▶▶▶ Jakehadlee, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1338 of 1967 🔗

It does – that’s usually where I’m found swearing

176793 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Jakehadlee, 1, #1339 of 1967 🔗

Not your swearing!

176879 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #1340 of 1967 🔗

They aren’t going to turn down top rate government money. That’s asking too much of any commercial station.

I think it was Delingpole on the London Calling podcast he runs with Toby, who said most advertising is sold heavily discounted from book rates after tough negotiations, whereas government pays full book rate, no questions asked.

177044 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Mark, 1, #1341 of 1967 🔗

And that’s our money… we’re being robbed.

177175 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Tee Ell, #1342 of 1967 🔗

Plus ca change…

176963 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jakehadlee, #1343 of 1967 🔗

That’s not good! I didn’t realise it was in the pocket. I’ve only ever watched it on catchup.

176878 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1344 of 1967 🔗

I listen to TalkRadio segments on YouTube. That way I only get the YT ads.

176965 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ewan Duffy, #1345 of 1967 🔗

Me too.

176959 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jakehadlee, 3, #1346 of 1967 🔗

While far from angelic before, my language has deteriorated noticeably over the last 6 months!

176777 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Edward, 1, #1347 of 1967 🔗

DITTO, Along with the BBC,ITV,C4,C5 and I suppose Sky( I wouldn’t know; not interested, can’t afford it)

176779 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Edward, #1348 of 1967 🔗

Ps: I usually shout:”Tossers/Wankers”

176805 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Edward, 11, #1349 of 1967 🔗

The one that I scream at most is when they say something like ‘job losses due to COVID’. They are not due to COVID, they are from the implementation of measures and restrictions.

176819 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Sarigan, 4, #1350 of 1967 🔗

Same! “Because of the pandemic” similarly grinds my gears.

176870 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to DRW, 1, #1351 of 1967 🔗

Even RNLI going on about their first ‘socially distanced’ shout. God help us.

176880 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #1352 of 1967 🔗


176966 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #1353 of 1967 🔗


176855 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1354 of 1967 🔗

Similar to what I wrote to a steam railway organisation about their appeal for support: “Your problems are not due to a virus, they are due to the government’s insane policies and ludicrous over-reaction in a futile attempt to suppress the virus”.

176860 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Edward, #1355 of 1967 🔗
176968 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #1356 of 1967 🔗

Faure, Schubert and Chopin followed by Bach sounds good to me!

176764 Jakehadlee, replying to Jakehadlee, 29, #1357 of 1967 🔗

I cancelled my TV licence today and told them it was because of their failure over Covid reporting.

Little victories

176766 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Jakehadlee, -8, #1358 of 1967 🔗

Trouble is – it’s no victory.

176770 ▶▶▶ Jakehadlee, replying to RickH, 17, #1359 of 1967 🔗

Well it’s saved me £140 so I’m calling win.

The bigger win will need to wait, but I can feel it coming

176869 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 3, #1360 of 1967 🔗

Actually the BBC has been so damaging for half a century now that every lost licence fee payer, representing another small step towards ridding ourselves of this parasitical propaganda body, must be regarded as a triumph, if belated.

176784 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to Jakehadlee, 8, #1361 of 1967 🔗

I did the same today

176958 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Telpin, 2, #1362 of 1967 🔗


176953 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jakehadlee, 1, #1363 of 1967 🔗

Good for you!

177036 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Jakehadlee, 1, #1364 of 1967 🔗

I love some BBC output. E.g. Attenborough. But seeing the clip of Jermaine Jenas daring to dismiss Dimbleby the other day (on The One Show – utter crap), or the aggressive red text letters I receive, or Emily Maitliss failing to challenge outright fascists, or Question Time deliberately avoiding going anything beyond skin deep… nope, I can’t in good conscience fund that. And I’m a lefty!

176772 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 18, #1365 of 1967 🔗

Just had a missive from on high. We now have to wear gloves, apron, mask and visor/goggles when assessing asymptomatic patients who have not had a test as we don’t know their infection status. As people who are asymptomatic shouldn’t have a test then basically we have to put all this garb on for everyone.
The patients have to wear a mask so I cannot see the point of the visor.

The illogical nature of this is beyond the pale.

176781 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to p02099003, 4, #1366 of 1967 🔗

Trialling the new Covid Cult costume on health care workers before rolling it out to the general public.

176789 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Richard O, 1, #1367 of 1967 🔗

something like this perhaps. appropriate as you will feel such a prick wearing it

176800 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to mjr, 8, #1368 of 1967 🔗


176785 ▶▶ RickH, replying to p02099003, 4, #1369 of 1967 🔗

It raises the question of what sort of barmy numpties are running the show?

How did patent numbskulls and idiots get to such positions of responsibility???

Even the idiots in the asylum wouldn’t have created such a brainless mess.

176875 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to RickH, 5, #1370 of 1967 🔗

You speak as though they don’t know what they’re doing. Of COURSE they do! This is coldly calculated – it’s not the result of incompetence or panic.

176901 ▶▶▶▶ James, replying to Banjones, 1, #1371 of 1967 🔗

There are two kinds of sceptics. Chamberlains and Churchills. Until the Churchills significantly outnumber the Chamberlains nothing will change.

176797 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to p02099003, 1, #1372 of 1967 🔗


176803 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to p02099003, 1, #1373 of 1967 🔗

Smoke and mirrors.

176775 Telpin, replying to Telpin, 7, #1374 of 1967 🔗

Just a thought – what has happened to China’s death figures? Are we honestly expected to believe that they only suffered c £5k deaths? What is happening?

176900 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Telpin, 3, #1375 of 1967 🔗

I ask myself this question every day. Why in the hell is nobody reporting on this? It beggars belief that a country of 1.4 billion people has fewer deaths than here in Canada and that they’re back to “normal” (they’re version of normal). There’s no possible way the lockdown of one province stopped the spread to the rest of China and no reason to think it’s not still spreading. Meanwhile our premier (emperor really) just shut down indoor dining, cinemas and gyms again in the province’s “hot spots.” No normal here, that’s for sure.

177168 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #1376 of 1967 🔗

It’s China. Anyone even suspected of Covid will have been wrapped up and shipped out to God knows where. No records.

They’ve been manipulating their economic numbers for decades, they have the ministry of truth working day and night

177165 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Telpin, #1377 of 1967 🔗

China are not exactly known for their trustworthy reporting.

But that said, Japan claims only 1,602 deaths from a population of 126 million.

In comparison to Japan, the official UK death rate is 50 times higher.

176787 Leemc23, replying to Leemc23, 8, #1378 of 1967 🔗

Well people. Fresh from my MP is proof of where we are now heading. It’s a 2 week Circuit (circus) break for everyone.

This is her final paragraph.

“It is important that the Government consider all options, including the so-called ‘circuit breaker’ option, for preventing the spread of coronavirus, with the aim of saving as many lives as possible. A short, two-week stretch where households or support bubbles are prevented from interacting with one another in public or in private will severely limit the chance for groups to infect one another, while still allowing people the opportunity to go out and about within their household or support bubble. This will provide an opportunity to dramatically reduce infections. While I understand that, at present, these measures are not in place anywhere, I will continue to closely monitor this situation”

Again to draw out the key bit.

A short, two-week stretch where households or support bubbles are prevented from interacting with one another in public or in private will severely limit the chance for groups to infect one another, while still allowing people the opportunity to go out and about within their household or support bubble.

That’s where this is headed folks. Actually, I will end with “That’s All Folks”.

176794 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Leemc23, 12, #1379 of 1967 🔗

They are total idiots, putting it mildly, where are these lives they are saving, I keep looking for bodies in the street and there are none. Fools every one of them

176804 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Dan Clarke, #1380 of 1967 🔗

I have heard of just 1 and that was a colleague of a colleague of a friend of a friend.

176851 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1381 of 1967 🔗

My ex-DiL has had flu-like symptoms all week and just received a covid positive result. All her family is now locked in their small house for the duration.

176893 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Cheezilla, #1382 of 1967 🔗

Why the fuck did this half wit get tested

176940 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cecil B, #1383 of 1967 🔗

She gets tested regularly for work and has had 3 negative tests in the past.
I’d told her it was probably flu because she texted to say she felt like sh*t. The treatment is the same anyway!
But she’s the panicking hypochondriac sort, so must have sent for the test by then.

176895 ▶▶▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1384 of 1967 🔗

I know one person who died with Covid 19. Mid 50’s and a Security Guard. Not a fit lad it has to be said. But even so was a worker and had been working through. It has not altered how I see this. I still think it’s bullshit of the highest order.

Funny enough Ivor Cummings on the Delingpod podcast this week actually highlighted that Security Officers were one of the few key workers who did have a disproportionate impact of death with Covid. Unlike NHS staff, shop workers etc.

176904 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cheezilla, #1385 of 1967 🔗

Humm Flu like symptoms, very intersting, can you try to find out how she is and keep us updated? Obviously I hope she is OK but it would be interesting to know how she is with it. A cough by sneeze report.

176947 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Two-Six, #1386 of 1967 🔗

Wednesday she said she had all the symptoms of covid and had felt rough for three days. She hurt all over. Typical viral symptoms
Today she feels “rough”. Same as flu – which in a way it is.
She’s mid-30s and a PC, so pretty fit.
I told her she’d be fine if she rested, took the relevant supplements and kept her fluids up!

176806 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Leemc23, 5, #1387 of 1967 🔗

A short, two-week stretch

Very interesting choice of words there. Not period, but stretch .

176813 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Leemc23, 1, #1388 of 1967 🔗

Maybe, just maybe , they’re going to have a circuit breaker and then, in the weeks that follow, progressively reduce the number of tests that are performed.

As a result, the graphs will show a reduction in false positives cases, Doris can declare that “we’ve beaten the virus!”, and we can look forward to a socially-satisfying Christmas.

Hope springs eternal.

176906 ▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Mabel Cow, 3, #1389 of 1967 🔗

No offense, but you are verging on suffering from Stockholm syndrome if you truly believe that. They could have ended this at any point during the summer. In Scotland, we had multiple days without deaths, minimal hospitalisations and I still couldn’t go to the gym, get my teeth treated, go to work etc. etc.

177122 ▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to jb12, 1, #1390 of 1967 🔗

None taken. I’ve had a bad day and was hoping to trick myself into thinking things might get better. It didn’t work.

Hey ho, back to trying to convince the family to move to Sweden.

177032 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Mabel Cow, 1, #1391 of 1967 🔗

I want to believe you are right Mabel but I can’t see them backtracking “until there’s a vaccine”.

176824 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Leemc23, #1392 of 1967 🔗

But that’s what is proposed under the “red” zone traffic light restrictions, coming into place next week. It looks like quite a large portion of the country will be red anyway, so what’s the difference?

176847 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Leemc23, #1393 of 1967 🔗

We’ve been under that ruling for 8 weeks now and apparently “cases” have increased dramatically. More so for Bradford, at least we had a 2-week respite.

176791 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 16, #1394 of 1967 🔗

Need to verify source on this but if true, significant

comment image

176799 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Sarigan, 10, #1395 of 1967 🔗

If you can verify its accuracy and protect the source, then I hope you send it to a sceptic newspaper or Talk Radio etc. This info needs to be in the public domain.

176812 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Sarigan, #1396 of 1967 🔗

I’ve seen this somewhere before recently, wish I could remember where!

176815 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #1397 of 1967 🔗

It doesn’t matter even if it’s true though, because just you wait two weeks!

176876 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1398 of 1967 🔗

It was published by Michael Yeadon on his twitteraccount.I am not sure whether it is a leaked document.I am surprised that he has not updated it daily,if he had such internal information.As this is the only one from 5th Oct and no updates a bit of caution about the authenticity

176922 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to swedenborg, #1399 of 1967 🔗

Agreed, need to be authenticated

176854 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1400 of 1967 🔗

Looks broadly consistent with yesterday’s report in the DM that: “ The most recent point shows that 1.82 per cent of beds are taken up with people by coronaviru s

176792 Jakehadlee, replying to Jakehadlee, 22, #1401 of 1967 🔗

I was saying to a friend today that I feel we are a bit like conscientious objectors during WWI – being made to feel traitorous for opposing the national battle, when in fact we are the ones who can see the waste and the ruin and pointlessness of it all.

Hopefully we won’t have to wait as long post “war” for the narrative to come round to us.

And when it does – we should make sure those who supported the folly never forget. The message has to continue even after the nonsense ends.

176822 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Jakehadlee, 1, #1402 of 1967 🔗

There was a significant peace movement in the UK after the declaration of WW2, supported by several members of the Cabinet, during the “phoney war” period from September 1939 to April 1940. Obviously brought to an end by the German invasion of France.

176848 ▶▶ l835, replying to Jakehadlee, #1403 of 1967 🔗

And we can’t even remember the fallen with Remembrance Day services in local lockdown areas. But we can stuff ourselves stupid at Christmas as the rules will be relaxed for it. Disgusting. Proof if proof was needed that society is only interested in the self.

176883 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Jakehadlee, 1, #1404 of 1967 🔗

They shot 15 year old shell shocked boys at dawn. They don’t give a fuck, we are cannon fodder

176802 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1405 of 1967 🔗

Today’s letters to my MP.
Number 1 (Plagiarised with thanks to Tim and Kevin)

Dear Jason McCartney
In March 2020 NHS England set the covid 19 PCR positive test cycle threshold: https://www.england.nhs.uk/coronavirus/wp-content/uploads/sites/52/2020/03/guidance-and-sop-covid-19-virus-testing-in-nhs-laboratories-v1.pdf

This official guidance appears to state (on Page 21) that 45 cycles are undertaken.

It also says that a positive result at or above 40 cycles , requires the following:-
“Results where: •the Ct value is ≥40 and/or •there is an abnormal assay curve and/or •the clinical context makes the positive result highly unexpected should be considered interim or held until reviewed by a laboratory clinician. Laboratories will undertake the following actions: •defer telephoning the uncertain result to the clinician looking after the patient (or telephoning it with the clear caveat of uncertainty) •re-extract the original sample and repeat the PCR in the original and new extract in duplicate •perform testing on a further respiratory sample (or samples) from the same patient •confirmwith an alternative, equivalent sensitivity assay locally or,where none is available, forward the sample to Colindale •regularly review the performance of reagents, particularly control materials.The actions taken should be expedited to minimise the delay in obtaining a definitive result for the patient. Only confirmed results are expected to be notified to public health and other stakeholders.”
(My bolding.)

I take it that the clinical context makes the positive result highly unexpected means no clinical symptoms, ie asymptomatic.

So that means only a positive at 35 or below should be automatically considered a positive. Anything at 40 or above must be followed by the double checks (as detailed above) before public health is notified.

Given the government’s clear determination to lock down the entire North of England as soon as possible, despite overwhelming evidence that these measures don’t work, I’d be very grateful if you would answer these two questions please:

– In the madly expensive rush to test everyone and his dog, do you know if pillar 2 testing is complying with the NHS official guidance?
– Reliable evidence is fast appearing that students are currently being double-counted in both their uni and home towns. Is this being amended?

Below is a report of the problems with repeated positive tests (no doubt each counted as separate “cases”.) I’ve reproduced the abstract for your convenience.

Thank you for your work on our behalf. I watched you pose your question yesterday and was disgusted by the pat response. Thanks for trying though.
Yours sincerely

University of Louisville Journal of Respiratory Infections

BRIEF REVIEWULJRI | https://doi.org/10.18297/jri/vol4/iss1/54 1

Some patients recovered from COVID-19 but the reverse transcription polymerase chain reac-tion (RT-PCR) for SARS-CoV-2 remains persistently positive. In the evaluation of these patients it is important to define the cycle threshold (Ct) value of the RT-PCR test. This article will present a case study, address relevant findings and interpretation of the RT-PCR test, and define the use of Ct values in defining when a healthcare working may return to work. Our current ap-proach is to allow to return to work healthcare workers with persistently positive RT-PCR if the Ct values are greater than 35.


(within an hour to be fair)

Dear xxxx
Thank you for your email and sending me this information. As a backbench MP, I am afraid I do not have access to the information you have requested.

Kind regards,

176944 ▶▶ Bill h, replying to Cheezilla, #1406 of 1967 🔗


Great work.

Super job on the facts/questions.

A fine template for future activity !


177043 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bill h, #1407 of 1967 🔗

Thank you!

The credit however, is entirely due to my wonderful fellow BTLers.
I just plagiarised some posts then altered them to suit.

176818 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 11, #1408 of 1967 🔗

Today’s letters to my MP
Number 2

Dear Jason McCartney
Thank you for your very prompt reply to my previous email. What a pity you don’t have access to such important information.

Given the current tsunami of positive PCR tests, and assurances that our currently mostly empty hospitals are about to be overwhelmed like they were in spring, you might find the following information interesting. The necessary proof is on the official WHO link provided.

The World Health Organization has finally confirmed what many experts and studies have been saying for months – the coronavirus is no more deadly or dangerous than seasonal flu.

The WHO’s top brass made this announcement during a special session of the WHO’s 34-member executive board on Monday October 5th.

At the session, Dr Michael Ryan, the WHO’s Head of Emergencies revealed that they believe roughly 10% of the world has been infected with Sars-Cov-2. This is their “best estimate”, and a huge increase over the number of officially recognised cases (around 35 million).

Dr. Margaret Harris, a WHO spokeswoman, later confirmed the figure, stating it was based on the average results of all the broad seroprevalence studies done around the world.

As much as the WHO were attempting to spin this as a bad thing – Dr Ryan even said it means “the vast majority of the world remains at risk.” – it’s actually good news. And confirms, once more, that the virus is nothing like as deadly as everyone predicted.

The global population is roughly 7.8 billion people, if 10% have been infected that is 780 million cases. The global death toll currently attributed to Sars-Cov-2 infections is 1,061,539.

That’s an infection fatality rate of roughly or 0.14%. Right in line with seasonal flu and the predictions of many experts from all around the world.

0.14% is over 24 times LOWER than the WHO’s “provisional figure” of 3.4% back in March. This figure was used in the models which were used to justify lockdowns and other draconian policies.

In fact, given the over-reporting of alleged Covid deaths, the IFR is likely even lower than 0.14%, and could show Covid to be much less dangerous than flu.

I decided to find the actual video of Dr Ryan’s remarks. For some reason, although this was an important WHO meeting during an allegedly hyper-serious pandemic, the video is hard to find. The only place you are able to see it is the WHO’s own website.

Here’s a link to their website, skip to 1:01:33 of Session 1 to hear the exact quote: https://www.who.int/news-room/events/detail/2020/10/05/default-calendar/executive-board-special-session-on-the-covid19-response

Thanks again
Yours sincerely

Answer (within 7 minutes!)

Dear xxxx,
Thank you for your further thoughts, which I have noted.
Kind regards,

To be fair, he does at least attend the HofC and pose questions on behalf of his consituency.
He was probably on the train back North.
Hopefully I’ll at least have stirred a few brain cells!

176826 ▶▶ Nic, replying to Cheezilla, #1409 of 1967 🔗

Agree with what you say but the Who will probably reply with deaths are undereported.

176831 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nic, 2, #1410 of 1967 🔗

Under-reported by 779 million?

176820 annie, replying to annie, 18, #1411 of 1967 🔗

I thought Covid was short,
‘Cause they said
If you got it you were dead.
But now there are strong
Arguments for Covid being Long,
‘Cause the longer it goes on
The longer they can sustain the con.

176892 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to annie, 3, #1412 of 1967 🔗

Ann our Sceptics Poet Laureate.
Live long and prosper.

177086 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to wendyk, #1413 of 1967 🔗

I intend to!

176821 Nic, replying to Nic, 10, #1414 of 1967 🔗

At last people have started to question lockdowns, comments in the D mail ,seem to indicate most people have had enough, can the government keep this up for at least 6 months without the wheels coming off ? What do people on this forum think.

176859 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to Nic, 1, #1415 of 1967 🔗

Any suggestions as to what we might actually do about it will be immediately removed. Dissent is not allowed.

176911 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Nic, 2, #1416 of 1967 🔗

I think the aim is to turn people against each other. At the moment, the Covid-credulous are in the majority and even when a few more of them begin to realise what’s going on, there’s a long way to go. Getting to the socialist paradise is going to be very bumpy, and most of the population will be subliminally encouraged to blame the ‘Covidiots’ for the problems along the way.

176830 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 38, #1417 of 1967 🔗

Just spoken to owner of local beauty salon, whom I’ve known for many years: her colleague only has enough appointments for 2 days for the following week, so they’re having to rearrange the diary.

3 part timers are still on furlough, as business so reduced.

The owner’s husband, a self employed sound and lighting installation specialist ,has had no work for months, as all concerts, exhibitions and events have been cancelled.

Added to this, he looks after his father, who is senile and unable to be left alone for any length of time.

She is also responsible for her widowed mother, who is housebound and unable to cook, clean or shop for herself.

The final insult is that this blameless couple, who’ve always worked and built up their businesses from scratch, have now had to apply for universal credit.

This involves a monthly report on income and expenditure, regular calls from their assigned advisor, and suggestions on retraining for the future.

Since there is no work anywhere, retraining is somewhat academic. However, British Airways staff facing the chop have been advised to work in nursing homes, presumably for the minimum wage and zero hours contracts.

As our conversation closed, I mentioned the joint earnings of Mrs and Mr Sturgeon, plus the £5000 monthly payouts to the Renfrewshire MSP who hasn’t worked since February.

A silence ensued and she then said ‘ they should take a pay cut’.

So another sad tale: a hard working committed couple, both with demanding family obligations, now obliged to claim universal credit while trying to keep a decent business afloat.

I can’t find the words which truly reflect my disgust, my anger and the sheer irresponsible stupidity which has driven decent people like this into such difficulties, none deserved nor necessary.

176861 ▶▶ Tking, replying to wendyk, 9, #1418 of 1967 🔗

I really feel for them and I have heard this story multiple times, just today I heard about a perfectly good business I use, that has decided to close permenantly, they cant afford to go on, more jobs lost. What is hearbreaking is that these are good profitable well run businesses, they have done nothing wrong, it is totally out of their control. I am worried as I too run a business and it has slowed right down in the last few days with all the scaremongering. I dont qualify for any help at all, but I have savings to last a little more time, but I admit I am terrified of the future.

176884 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Tking, 8, #1419 of 1967 🔗

What a bunch of criminals these politicians are: inflated salaries, expenses, dishing out endless incoherent unnecessary punishment.

Your fear for the future is shared by many and how I wish we could stop this madness.

Shame on them all!

They should be prosecuted and obliged to pay damages.

176865 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to wendyk, 2, #1420 of 1967 🔗

Totally with you

176984 ▶▶ ianric, replying to wendyk, 2, #1421 of 1967 🔗


As the link above shows it is easy to support lockdowns if you are not affected financially. It is very sad reading the above story. The worst thing about lockdown is killing off healthy viable businesses due to stupid policies. I am certain killing off businesses is a deliberate policy.

177040 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to wendyk, 4, #1422 of 1967 🔗

Just heard of a local pub which seemed to be one of the busier ones over the summer. Great food, big sunny beer garden, have thrown in the towel. They employ quite a few, as well as being a great little music venue. It’s one of only many.

176837 ConstantBees, replying to ConstantBees, 3, #1423 of 1967 🔗
176841 ▶▶ annie, replying to ConstantBees, 6, #1424 of 1967 🔗

That’s a surprise? Who to?

176862 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to ConstantBees, 5, #1425 of 1967 🔗

So the obvious strategy has to be….more and stricter lockdowns.

176925 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Richard O, #1426 of 1967 🔗


176840 Banjones, replying to Banjones, 4, #1427 of 1967 🔗

”… they would fill quicker…” No.
But they wouldn’t actually – even if this bunch could write correct English.

As for thinking that Wittery and Unbalanced would actually welcome a ‘silver bullet’ in the form of Vitamin D – of course they wouldn’t! It’s not as if they don’t know about it. Of course they do!
This is all about control until the very lucrative vaccine appears. They don’t want us to stay well – they want us to suffer if at all possible so that we’ll be desperate for it.

176917 ▶▶ Nic, replying to Banjones, 1, #1428 of 1967 🔗

Of course the government should recommend everyone take vit D

176923 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Banjones, #1429 of 1967 🔗

Don’t forget the excessive pillar 2 testing is very lucrative too!

176850 Paul, replying to Paul, 23, #1430 of 1967 🔗

It seems fairly certain to me that the cowardly populace of my town in Lincolnshire has voluntarily started Lockdown 2.0.
I had to make an unavoidable trip to the pharmacy at lunchtime today and a trip into town at that time on a Friday has always been a nightmare.
I couldn’t believe it today,no traffic hold-ups at all,even with an ongoing major road closure in the town,very light traffic indeed.Most on – street parking bays empty,that’s a miracle on any day of the week usually.I drove straight into one of the main car parks and got a space right at the entrance,it was barely half full,usually on a Friday there’s no chance of a space after 9am.
The streets were pretty devoid of people as were the shops,cafes seemed to have no more than a couple of customers each,I’ve seen more people on the High Street when there’s been two feet of snow on the ground.The buses are nearly empty.
Out of the very few people on the streets I would say at least 50% are muzzled in the open air now.
The situation here looks absolutely dire,it feels like the final slide into the abyss to me and no doubt the stupid bastard in Downing Street is going to give us the final push next week.

176871 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Paul, 13, #1431 of 1967 🔗

We ignored the first lockdown, so will ignore this one

176915 ▶▶▶ Nic, replying to Cecil B, 2, #1432 of 1967 🔗

Me to but unfortunately businesses cant

176885 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Paul, 3, #1433 of 1967 🔗

Hiding away the first time did nothing, but they missed a really great spring, the beaches were empty and fabulous.

176888 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, #1434 of 1967 🔗

Correction, almost empty

177080 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Dan Clarke, #1435 of 1967 🔗

Well, there was me.

176852 Jo, replying to Jo, 20, #1436 of 1967 🔗

From the Residents’ Newsletter today:

Due to the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic, and the recent rise in numbers of infections both locally and nationally, we are not going to be able to hold our traditional Remembrance Sunday services and parades this year.

Shame on you, RBWM, SHAME ON YOU!
Stating the obvious, but can you imagine what would have happened if all those we usually remember at these services, (and in my case, ring the bells for) had been as lily-livered, fearful and frankly childish as this.

176919 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jo, 2, #1437 of 1967 🔗

That’s absolutely pathetic!

177077 ▶▶ annie, replying to Jo, 3, #1438 of 1967 🔗

I will not be going near any of the disgusting, feeble simulacra that will be dished out on Remembrance Sunday. (Archbishop Bedwettter Welby in his kitchen, no doubt, wearing a poppy-patterned face nappy.)

They did not die to save a nation of gibbering cowardly zombies.

Wear your face nappies with shame, you zombies.
They didn’t give their tomorrow so that you could throw away your today, you miserable crawling worms.
And you will bloody well not throw away mine.

176856 swedenborg, #1439 of 1967 🔗


Dr Birx,CDC must have gone mad as the most favourable explanation

“That’s what we saw happen in the south. People let down their guard when they were with friends and family,” Birx said. “They took off their masks. . . those becoming spreading events.”
Birx spoke following a discussion with local university and college presidents and a meeting with researchers at the Broad Institute. She said communities should mimic the kind of testing colleges are doing – testing people who are willing every seven to 10 days.

176858 Cheshirecatslave, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 41, #1440 of 1967 🔗

I was texting a friend who has cancer. She says she is most worried about her mental health. I then opened an email from an elderly friend with multiple health issues who has just signed the Great Barrington declaration. She had been talking to a retired nurse who thinks it is nonsense how the Government are reacting. I’m vulnerable myself and strongly oppose lockdown. Those they are claiming to protect want none of it.

176867 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 26, #1441 of 1967 🔗

Mental health no longer exists. Why? Because everyone has lost their minds.

The psychopaths directing our society couldn’t care less.

177064 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Richard O, 3, #1442 of 1967 🔗

Not everyone. We haven’t. And won’t.
Because we are right, and the zombies and their Fascist manipulators are wrong.
End of.

177065 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to annie, #1443 of 1967 🔗

Sadly the zombies can’t see what’s wrong anymore.

176905 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 19, #1444 of 1967 🔗

A friend committed suicide the other week. Fairly young and healthy (compared to those actually at risk from the virus). This is just one anecdote amongst a sea of others but they have blood on their hands. If I posted what I want to do to them I’d probably get a knock at the door so I’ll hold back.

176933 ▶▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to Tee Ell, 10, #1445 of 1967 🔗

Just horrible. Boris’ hands are dripping with blood.

177107 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Tee Ell, 1, #1446 of 1967 🔗

That’s about SIX suicides of young people I have heard of now. 3 from on here and three from random strangers.

176866 Cheshirecatslave, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 17, #1447 of 1967 🔗

This quote from “Macbeth” makes me think of the Government and why they won’t see sense.
I am in blood
Stepped in so far that, should I wade no more,
Returning were as tedious as go o’er.

176873 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 5, #1448 of 1967 🔗

Very good. Shakespeare expressing the sunk cost fallacy in poetic terms!

176874 ▶▶ Will, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 2, #1449 of 1967 🔗

And that has been the case since March when they cleared the decks into the care homes.

176881 ▶▶ Hoppy Uniatz, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 2, #1450 of 1967 🔗

Personally it reminds me of Capricorn One

176908 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 1, #1451 of 1967 🔗

I’ve had a few lines from Macbeth pop into my head today.
That was the story of a stitch up too.

176988 ▶▶ Coronamoana, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 3, #1452 of 1967 🔗

Bassanio, in The Merchant of Venice, wants to shoot another arrow in the direction of the first lost arrow to help him find it. Sounds like the government’s strategy.

176877 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1453 of 1967 🔗


Dr Birx,CDC must have gone mad as the most favourable explanation
“That’s what we saw happen in the south. People let down their guard when they were with friends and family,” Birx said. “They took off their masks. . . those becoming spreading events.”
Birx spoke following a discussion with local university and college presidents and a meeting with researchers at the Broad Institute. She said communities should mimic the kind of testing colleges are doing – testing people who are willing every seven to 10 days.

176890 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to swedenborg, 5, #1454 of 1967 🔗

Hold on… So people have been kissing their kids goodnight!? Sick bastards!

176886 Nic, replying to Nic, 9, #1455 of 1967 🔗

France posted over 20000 positives today yet deaths are averaging about 70 a day excellent news.

176903 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Nic, 4, #1456 of 1967 🔗

Ah! But didn’t Valance, at the ‘graph’ conference say that, because of the delay, most of these people will be dead in 2 weeks.

176912 ▶▶▶ Nic, replying to Ceriain, #1457 of 1967 🔗

Wonder ho

176894 Banjones, replying to Banjones, 14, #1458 of 1967 🔗

I find this hyperbolic expression ”letting the virus rip” simply ludicrous!
It seems increasingly likely that just about everyone has been exposed to it by now – it’ll have trouble ”ripping” through anything. Don’t these patronising plonkers realise how ridiculous they sound?

176916 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Banjones, #1459 of 1967 🔗

Yet they bang on about only 10% having been exposed.

176927 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Banjones, 5, #1460 of 1967 🔗

Not so much ‘ripping through universities’ as a load of students just sat in their rooms totally fine watching Netflix.

176897 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #1461 of 1967 🔗

Whilst searching online for an animator I happened across this drivel from earlier in the spamdemic…

Keep a sick on standby.

176907 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #1462 of 1967 🔗

And I’d just finished my dinner!
Appalling stuff.

176920 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #1463 of 1967 🔗

Woke shite.

176934 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1464 of 1967 🔗

I haven’t watched tv since June, so being re-exposed to beeb-style broadcasting was quite a severe shock to the system.

176941 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1465 of 1967 🔗

not just beeb style… actual bbc shite

176977 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #1466 of 1967 🔗

WOW that is the most toxic thing I have seen for a long time. Totally poisonous. Comments are open on that video and there aren’t many of them. BOMZ AWAY!

177161 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Two-Six, #1467 of 1967 🔗


177034 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #1468 of 1967 🔗

Falmouth university final year students. Each thought they were doing something heroic. Each unable to realise they were doing the bidding of Karl Schwab.

177156 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #1469 of 1967 🔗

I see such shite and think what will become of these people when it’s revealed to them that it was never even close to what they had been told?

They’ll surely suffer some kind of mental breakdown. Like how will the hy reconcile this? For at this stage, they really are gone. They’re never going to take on board even the slightest alternative.

I can’t wrap my head round it.

176902 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1470 of 1967 🔗

Oh dear. Discrediting tactics toward the GBD!
I wonder if some of the silly names were 77th brigade.
And why pick on homeopaths?!

An open letter that made headlines calling for a herd immunity approach to Covid-19 lists a number of apparently fake names among its expert signatories, including “Dr Johnny Bananas” and “Professor Cominic Dummings”.
The Great Barrington declaration , which was said to have been signed by more than 15,000 scientists and medical practitioners around the world, was found by Sky News to contain numerous false names, as well as those of several homeopaths.
Others listed include a resident at the “university of your mum” and another supposed specialist whose name was the first verse of the Macarena .
Sky News discovered 18 self-declared homeopaths in the list of expert names and more than 100 therapists whose expertise included massage, hypnotherapy and Mongolian khoomii singing.


The official “experts” expressing their doubts were some of the usual suspects, including Michael head and Simon Stevens.

176946 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1471 of 1967 🔗

I think Simon Stevens should keep his head down, given his managerial complicity in crimes that break the Nuremberg protocols, and may be indictable under the ECHR.

177016 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1472 of 1967 🔗

They should have put the same effort into looking at the list of so called medical experts, that put us into lockdown.

177060 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, #1473 of 1967 🔗

I’ve no time for homeopathy myself, but it’s no more useless and unfounded than their cretinous Covvietrst.

177093 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, 3, #1474 of 1967 🔗

I swear by homeopathy for certain conditions.

I used to have a serious reaction to insect bites that would make me quite ill but the remedy Ledum completely solved that.

I occasionally get bad sciatica and Rhus Tox works like magic for me.

Arnica is amazing for shocks and bruises. Highly recommended pre-op and post-trauma.

Last year I had an op which left me with a lot of missing bone. (Should really have been given a bone graft but thta’s the NHS for you!)
I took homeopathic Symphytum and the consultant was amazed that the bone had completely regenerated – I’m 67. He used the word “remarkable” several times.

176913 Basics, 1, #1475 of 1967 🔗

Uk column today. Helpful information

Also, on the ukc youtube channel david ellis report looks at troops on the streets handing out covid tests door to door.

176914 Nic, 2, #1476 of 1967 🔗

Wonder how many in ICU have flu not covid , also of the deaths this week what were ther age? Did the have an underlying illness? Nice to k now this info.

176918 James, replying to James, 31, #1477 of 1967 🔗

Two stories from today. My brother in law attended his uncle’s funeral near Glasgow. 30 present. At the start he and another uncle were the only two who refused to wear a mask. By the end all masks had been discarded. Small victory.

I just spent an hour or so with a friend who is a lawyer. He is sceptical but has had many troubles these last few months. He sees the dots but has not been joining them up. I saved him a wee bit of time and he looked a bit shocked. “What can you do? he asked rather helplessly. He knew nothing of the million or so who demonstrated in Berlin a few weeks ago. Then it started to dawn on him that actually there would be no way of stopping several hundred thousand people should they decide to
DO something. A lot of people, I suspect, feel that same sense of impotence. We the people allowed this to happen and only we the people will stop this.

176930 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to James, 3, #1478 of 1967 🔗


176924 Tony Rattray, replying to Tony Rattray, 29, #1479 of 1967 🔗


Not all the central belt of scotland is now unable to serve a pint! In fife you can still serve outdoors. So our local has put up two large marquees with heating which as we speak are packed full of people, distancing of course. In other words, two fingers from fife to the mini-holyrood ivory tower dictatorship. Where there’s a will there’s a way as life is for living. Hope they are all lockdown sceptics!

176931 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Tony Rattray, 1, #1480 of 1967 🔗

Oh I love Scotland (just wish they liked me!)

177090 ▶▶▶ JYC, replying to CGL, #1481 of 1967 🔗

Don’t be taken in by the anti-Englishness in practically everything the nationalists express a view on. Part of it is to make sure the supine media here will run with it, rather than picking the obvious holes in the SNP’s shambolic running of the country.

177022 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Tony Rattray, #1482 of 1967 🔗

Where’s that Tony? I, ahem, need somewhere to take my 4 year old over the weekend 😉

177092 ▶▶▶ Tony Rattray, replying to Nobody2020, #1483 of 1967 🔗

Dalgety bay. Recommend coastal path and views of the forth railway bridge.

177056 ▶▶ annie, replying to Tony Rattray, 2, #1484 of 1967 🔗

Three cheers for the Fife Rebels!

176928 AN other lockdown sceptic, 4, #1485 of 1967 🔗

‘We are the resistance’

Wise words from Mrs ANols this evening.

176932 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 6, #1486 of 1967 🔗

The end of free speech?

(The Telegraph, paywall):



Darren Grimes is being investigated by police on suspicion of stirring up racial hatred over an interview with the historian David Starkey that he published, it has emerged.

Mr Grimes, a conservative commentator, has been asked to attend a police station to be interviewed under caution after publishing a podcast in which Dr Starkey said slavery was not genocide because there are “so many damn blacks”.

It has been warned that the investigation, by the Metropolitan Police, will have a “chilling effect” on free speech, while Mr Grimes has described it as an “abuse of taxpayers money”.

176956 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tenchy, -10, #1487 of 1967 🔗

A good illustration of how such measures are totally useless as well as contrary to the principles of free speech.

Starkey is a sad idiot who can be left to just shoot himself in the foot )when he’s not pointing the gun at his head)

176989 ▶▶▶ Ossettian, replying to RickH, 7, #1488 of 1967 🔗

Your lefty twattery is increasingly tedious

177017 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 5, #1489 of 1967 🔗

I disagree with Starkey about a number of things, some quite fundamental, but I’m still able to recognise that he is one of our most perceptive and fearlessly honest public figures, reflected in his being one of the earliest public figures to come out aggressively against lockdown.

Certainly I can say that he makes you look like an intellectual midget, without even particularly disrespecting you. And if you’ve ever displayed a fraction of the intellectual and moral courage he has in standing against the mob and resisting conformity to the dogmas and intellectual fashions of the modern US sphere, it hasn’t been in evidence here.

177054 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to RickH, 3, #1490 of 1967 🔗

Starkey talks robust sense.

176961 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tenchy, 6, #1491 of 1967 🔗

I’ve just read that. Absolutely disgusting and suspect motivated as much by his success in clearing his name regarding the funding allegations during Brexit as hosting David Starkey. Agree completely with Toby’s analysis in the article and applaud the support for Darren through FSU.

177128 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1492 of 1967 🔗

“Dr Starkey said slavery was not genocide because there are “so many damn blacks”.”

That’s an outrageous misrepresentation of what he said…

176936 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 7, #1493 of 1967 🔗

I happened to see a clip of one the European international football games last night. Right at the start, on the command of the referee’s whistle, the pond life otherwise known as the teams, bent down on one knee. Of course, this disgusting behaviour was carried out in a COVID-stupid stadium with no spectators. I wonder if they would have got away with it had there been a crowd?

176962 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1494 of 1967 🔗

I thought they had given up on the one knee crap ages ago. I hate football.

176939 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 45, #1495 of 1967 🔗

Last bastion breached

Over the course of the last weeks (and months!) I’ve refused to wear a mask ANYWHERE.
As well as shops, pubs, restaurants, cafes, library, buses, in fact…all the usual suspects, I’ve also attended my dentist and optician.
Today I had an appointment at my medical centre. I don’t mind telling you that over the past months I’ve experienced pains and aches down the side of my face. Sometimes this would manifest in headaches and other times I would experience toothache and earache.

My dentist confirmed that I was dentally fit so that was OK. This appointment, with a senior nurse, was to check out my ears as I wondered whether or not the problem might be there.

I arrived at the medical centre car park fifteen minutes before my appointment time and sat waiting. Every person I saw, either going in or coming out was fully masked up. I confess that I felt a trifle uneasy about going in unmasked not sure as to what my reception would be. The uneasiness was caused by my trepidation over the fact that I need to stay on good terms with my medical centre (for my own health’s sake) versus my personal need to stay true to myself and my principles.

I got out of my car with five minutes to spare and began reading the Covid guff that was adorning the windows adjacent to the locked entrance door. Whilst I was doing this I became aware of a person opening the door and then calling my name…. ‘Mr Hopkins?’ ‘yes’ I replied,…’would you like to come in’?. This lady was sporting a mask and I was fully expecting the text book question—‘have you got a mask?’ But here’s the thing….it never came! I was ushered into a consulting room, invited to sit down and then, and only then, this delightful young nurse asked me if I would LIKE a mask. I had been on tenterhooks about this situation but I could see by her demeanour and bedside manner and indeed her choice of words that I would be under no pressure to don the dreaded face nappy. .’No thank you… I have an exemption’. To which she replied: ‘that’s perfectly fine Mr Hopkins, let’s have a look at your ears.’

I won’t bore you with the details of my examination except to say that with help of her illuminated microscope poking around in my ears she maintained a social distance of around three inches! In fact, her proximity to my head whilst carrying out this examination was such that I’ve never been so close to an attractive woman other than my wife since this whole Covid bollocks began. Not an unpleasant experience I can tell you.

Anyway, she pleased me no end when she said that my ears were in remarkable condition and she could see the drums clearly—‘nothing in there at all’ she concluded. It was only later that I wondered if her comment was alluding to ear wax or indeed that my brain was such that it was fast disappearing. I’m sure it was the former.

I thanked her and wished her a good weekend and departed with a skip in my step. I was pleased with this encounter on two points First , my ears were OK and second, it proved to me, yet again, that sometimes the actual event is nowhere near as bad as we might conjure up in our imaginations. I was a tad worried about my mask less face—she wasn’t bothered one iota.

But I’m left with intermittent pains down my face, headaches, toothaches and ear aches However, I’m beginning to come to the conclusion that I know what it is. Whilst I genuinely feel that I’ve negotiated the past six months on a relatively even keel (considering the major upheavals we’ve all had to face) it is probably my bodies way of telling me it’s not happy. In other words, my face aches are due to stress and anxiety due entirely to the restricted life we are being forced to adopt or in my case resisting at every opportunity I can.
On the positive side, now that I’ve got my medical centre notched on my gun so to speak, there is nowhere else that I would feel I could not enter without a mask….and I feel much better for it.

176943 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #1496 of 1967 🔗

Those will be covid symptoms soon!

176945 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Harry hopkins, 2, #1497 of 1967 🔗

A glimmer of light in the black hole of England.

176952 ▶▶ James, replying to Harry hopkins, 2, #1498 of 1967 🔗

Thank You Harry.
I was feeling bleaker and bleaker tonight. You just made my day.

176960 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Harry hopkins, 2, #1499 of 1967 🔗

Nice to hear it wasn’t totally insane.

176964 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Harry hopkins, 2, #1500 of 1967 🔗

I’m sure that the last 6+ months of insanity have produced more symptoms than Covid has done. Such is the power of anxiety over health.

176967 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Harry hopkins, 2, #1501 of 1967 🔗

Excellent. On the window guff, I passed a pub today with 8 or 9 seoarate signs plus a sandwich board telling multiples of orders/requirements. On the spot I estimated 1000 words to read.

Well done for getting through the ordeal of preparation for the cinfrontation that never came. Not an insubstantial oppression in itself.

176978 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #1502 of 1967 🔗

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176987 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #1503 of 1967 🔗

Wonderful stuff. A full suite of victories.

By the way, how could you be certain said nurse was pretty if she had her face covered?

177074 ▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Richard O, #1504 of 1967 🔗

I was her last patient and she came out of the centre when I was getting ready to drive off. Got a nice smile then from her unmasked face!

176991 ▶▶ Alice, replying to Harry hopkins, 2, #1505 of 1967 🔗

Hello, Harry,

I think we suffer from something similar – please look up TMJ disorder. It’s a problem with the big joint in the jaw, and it could be related to a bite problem, or wear-and-tear of the joint. Stress definitely makes it worse, as it can cause nocturnal teeth grinding, so you wake up with a sore jaw… Empathy from a fellow sufferer!

177001 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Alice, 2, #1506 of 1967 🔗

Bruxism – me too! Nightguard essential – especially when dentists are rarer than hens teeth (as it were).

177014 ▶▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to CGL, 1, #1507 of 1967 🔗


177023 ▶▶▶▶ Alice, replying to CGL, #1508 of 1967 🔗

Oh, I had a nightguard a few years ago – hated it, and gave it up after a while. But it did improve things a bit, so it’s worth trying.

177028 ▶▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Alice, #1509 of 1967 🔗

I lost the one I had made for me by the dentist and they wanted £300 for the next one, so I ordered some from from Amazon (Boooooo!), and it took a while, but it fits fine now. My teeth really hurt if I don’t use it. Very sexy – not!!!!

177011 ▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #1510 of 1967 🔗

Harry. Could be you are grinding your teeth when you are asleep? It means you can wake up with a cracking headache that goes off during the day. Worth asking your dentist again if you can and getting a mouth guard to wear at night. It is stress related.

177030 ▶▶▶ Alice, replying to Keen Cook, 1, #1511 of 1967 🔗

This is another health problem made worse by lockdown, isn’t it? There must be a long list of those somewhere.

177095 ▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Keen Cook, #1512 of 1967 🔗

Thanks to all for their considered thoughts. I’m pretty sure I’m not a tooth grinder and I generally wake up feeling OK. I’m pretty good at having long periods where I don’t think about the current situation and I do have engrossing hobbies and activities. Just one of those things I suppose. In the overall scheme of things I consider myself very lucky and if I can get through this with just a bit of face ache I’m pretty sure I’ll be one of the fortunate few. As we all know, some people are going through sheer hell these days so I’m pleased to count my blessings.

177053 ▶▶ annie, replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #1513 of 1967 🔗

I think my jaw is permanently gritted with anger and that does make my face ache!

177091 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #1514 of 1967 🔗

Well done on a positive experience.
Could it be jaw clenching or tooth grinding with the tension of all the Covid claptrap?

177201 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Harry hopkins, #1515 of 1967 🔗

Take a look at your feet and your posture. Headaches and neck pain is a classic symptom of referred pain from having trouble with your feet and how you walk.