2020-10-13

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/10/13/latest-news-161/
Published2020-10-13T01:05:21
Last updated2020-10-13T09:01:16
Scraped2020-12-20T20:18:07
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183210 ColoradoGirl, replying to ColoradoGirl, 9, #1 of 2450 🔗

First!

183254 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to ColoradoGirl, 9, #2 of 2450 🔗

Barrister Francis Hoar

– Judicial Review & The Legality of Lockdown & the Media – 12th Oct 2020

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOfJv6tpiMA

185129 ▶▶▶ Linda B, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #3 of 2450 🔗

Fantastic – Sense in bucketfuls – I hope for all our sakes that Simon Dolan and Francis Hoar win… All he says about the MSM and especially the BBC is true. Laura Kunnesburg and co have indeed shown a dereliction of duty. They should not even be classified as journalists so pathetic has their questioning been.. I can no longer watch the BBC news. Sky and itv no better but BBC is government funded and have been an utter disgrace.

185561 ▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #4 of 2450 🔗

Watching this right now.

183255 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to ColoradoGirl, 13, #5 of 2450 🔗

POLICE STATE

Police attempt to serve papers on Piers Corbyn telling him not to go to Cardiff Rally 11/10/20

Police attempt to serve papers on Piers Corbyn and warn he MIGHT get arrested if he goes to Cardiff Rally 11/10/20 because it’s a Local Health Protection Area = Exclusion Zone. He’s still going and says people should go in huge numbers. Free Cardiff! #WeDoNotConsent

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP2TKHHuW9c

183514 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 7, #6 of 2450 🔗

Interesting. In China today its citizens have to get permission so I’m told to move around their own country – and it were so in the days of the Soviet Union. These are big countries mind.

184517 ▶▶▶▶ assoc, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #7 of 2450 🔗

I once saw an East German passport with tear-out vouchers needed for internal travel between the East German states.

184514 ▶▶▶ assoc, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 4, #8 of 2450 🔗

I never thought I’d say ‘go corbyn’

184123 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to ColoradoGirl, 8, #9 of 2450 🔗

Corona – figures and fakery – from Comment Central
OCTOBER 13, 2020 IN HEALTH BY SEAN WALSH

https://commentcentral.co.uk/corona-figures-and-fakery/
commentcentral corona-figures-and-fakery/

<i>This is the real form of dishonesty that this government needs to address. The fakery at the heart of it. The manipulations by Hancock and Johnson, the disgraceful violations against statistics and language, have been itemised by mathematicians such as Carl Heneghan; in epidemiology by Professor Sunetra Gupta and Dr John Lee; and “in the round” by the wonderful work done by Will Jones and Toby Young at ‘lockdown sceptics’. ……………………………..

The government’s Corona strategy was wrong at the outset, given that the “outset” was several months after C-19 was showing up in the European sewage systems. Viruses, when they are endemic (as this one has been since November) do not respect government graphs. I suspect that Mr Johnson knows this and would love to be helped out of his embarrassment.</i>

184248 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #10 of 2450 🔗

I have some rope spare …..

184192 ▶▶ Jae Coverdale, replying to ColoradoGirl, 3, #11 of 2450 🔗

The action by Essex County Council is not going well with Essex residents. The overall “case” numbers are considerably less than those in London. If the government allow Essex’s request will they then move London on to the next tier as well?

185353 ▶▶ sam, replying to ColoradoGirl, #12 of 2450 🔗

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MWZP4B86rY&feature=youtu.be

Berlin 10102020: Better Normal, not New Normal – http://www.ACU2020.org – World Doctors Alliance

185395 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to ColoradoGirl, #13 of 2450 🔗

He can make things better by following Sweden

The virus is not letting rip in Sweden because they followed the correct science and not Neil Ferguson and Piers Morgan

**************************

<i>Sweden – No Lockdowns, No Masks, No Insanity</i>

Tony Heller

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnmTDPF8Tgk

Can someone explain to me how a country of over 10 million people has less than one death per day without the miraculous power of cloth masks ?”

**************************

185406 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to ColoradoGirl, 1, #14 of 2450 🔗

Alison Pearson – Daily Telegraph
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/yes-boris-tippingpoint-trust/

To be fair to Baroness Harding, the poor woman has only been given £12.6 billion to come up with a workable NHS tracking system. With that amount, you could have paid every single elderly and vulnerable person in the UK £60,000 to shield themselves in the Bahamas and used the change to recompense students for their non-existent university experience.

183212 Gtec, 4, #15 of 2450 🔗

2nd! I really must go to sleep earlier!!!

183213 Londo Mollari, replying to Londo Mollari, 131, #16 of 2450 🔗

The following was on Facebook, with an accompanying video – from a gym owner in Liverpool who says he will not obey. Last time I looked there were 744 comments and they all seemed to be in favour of his defiance. Note to mods – I apologise for the length of the post.

Nick Capo Whitcombe
tiSponfs6olrhed
·
WE ARE STAYING OPEN TO OUR MEMBERS
Today the UK’s Government has took it upon themselves to close gyms in the North West, despite the overwhelming evidence that gyms are not a major spreaders of COVID.
We respected the last lockdown although we financially suffered and only survived because of our amazing members. However they now want us to close, with minimum financial support for 6 months. We get no rent break, bills break both personally and as a business.
We are not staying open for financial gain but more for our members mental and physical well-being. Gym’s should be supported in fighting against COVID, obesity, mental health and many other conditions and diseases. So let’s look at the facts and evidence that has lead us to this decision and what the Government should be looking at:
UKActive published this study – https://www.ukactive.com/ …/fitness-and-leisure-sector…/
• 22,000,000 (22 million) gym visits resulted in a mere 78 Covid cases
• Uk gyms showing just 0.35 cases per 100,000 visits
Then we have the latest (unpublished study) since the increase in positive tests https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-54464470
• Gyms are still only showing 1.7% percent of cases, but they want to close us and keep restaurants open which have a higher rate of 9.6% cases, which is still CRAZY LOW so these should also stay open.
Mental health – the gym helps so many people with their mental health daily.
• Male suicide is now at an all time high – https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3431
Data published by the Office for National Statistics on 1 September showed that in 2019 the suicide rate among men and boys was 16.9 deaths per 100 000, the highest since 2000 and slightly above the 2018 rate of 16.2 per 100 000. The suicide rate among women and girls was 5.3 deaths per 100 000 in 2019, up from 5.0 per 100 000 in 2018 and the highest since 2004.
Overall, 5691 suicides (4303 in men and boys) were registered in England and Wales in 2019, giving an age standardised rate of 11 deaths per 100 000 people. A total of 5420 were registered in 2018 (10.5 per 100 000).
Further supported by this https://academic.oup.com/qjmed/article/113/10/707/5857612 which discusses suicide, mental health and COVID
The Government has ignored all the above facts and evidence and even ignored the calls of the Great Barrington Declaration 7,000 scientists & medics worldwide calling for a new strategy to allow us to live our lives. https://www.independent.co.uk/ …/coronavirus-lockdown…
Joe Anderson, the Mayor of Liverpool has also today, stated he does not agree with the measures the government are enforcing on Merseyside and they did not let him have a say about HIS REGION and that the government are “more interested in what they look like, rather than the evidence”

183267 ▶▶ annie, replying to Londo Mollari, 40, #17 of 2450 🔗

I salute a brave man.

185140 ▶▶▶ Linda B, replying to annie, 2, #18 of 2450 🔗

I totally agree — Good luck to him.

183269 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Londo Mollari, 42, #19 of 2450 🔗

Robust Civil Disobedience, bring it on.

184141 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to karenovirus, 5, #20 of 2450 🔗

I don’t suppose it’s easy to find out if this kind of brave action is taken by some people in Germany, or France, or Poland, or Spain where there is a huge amount of dissent and demonstrations. (Not reported by our MSM, of course, but can be seen on Youtube.)

183291 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Londo Mollari, 48, #21 of 2450 🔗

Someone who has put an evidence base together to justify his actions, unlike the government who shut things down because of ” you know, the virus”.

183342 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to thinkaboutit, 6, #22 of 2450 🔗

Good on him. Does anyone know what action the authorities could take against him?

183419 ▶▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Charlie Blue, 15, #23 of 2450 🔗

I suppose fines and court. As his evidence is better than the government’s it would be interesting.

183502 ▶▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Charlie Blue, 14, #24 of 2450 🔗

So far as i can tell, there are two approaches – Fixed Penalty Notices (which everyone should challenge and block up the courts) and a Closure Notice. But if the Closure Notice were to be ignored the local authority would have to bring an action in a court. I don’t think that legally (a quaint notion) a local council can just turn up and physically remove people from premises.

184100 ▶▶▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Londo Mollari, 3, #25 of 2450 🔗

Let’s hope it remains a ”quaint notion”!

185327 ▶▶▶▶▶ Linda B, replying to Londo Mollari, #26 of 2450 🔗

It has taken our local authorities nearly three years to close down an illegal waste/grabhire company working without planning permission on a green belt site – and they still havent managed to get rid of them despite the company losing an appeal and the inspectorate ordering them to leave – I see their lorries working every day – The local authorities are either totally inept or lazy — I hope the gyms an other companies defy these absurd lockdown plans … Is the government deliberately trying to bankrupt its citizens??

183621 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Charlie Blue, 24, #27 of 2450 🔗

Throughout the first lockdown a garden centre/nursery remained open against orders. The Council threatened to prosecute them and the Police threatened to prosecute customers. Neither happened

183689 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to karenovirus, 2, #28 of 2450 🔗

Cool. Whereabouts, please Charlie ?

183692 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to JohnB, 5, #29 of 2450 🔗

Wrong to ask that question.

184101 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Rowan, 1, #30 of 2450 🔗

Not really. If people knew where, they might be able to give it even more support right now.

184203 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Banjones, #31 of 2450 🔗

Really.

185333 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Rowan, #32 of 2450 🔗

Why, as the council and police are already aware ?

184023 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Charlie Blue, 2, #33 of 2450 🔗

They’ll do what the Democrats did in the U.S. and take away his license to operate, or fine him into bankruptcy.

184099 ▶▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Charlie Blue, 3, #34 of 2450 🔗

Perhaps LockdownSceptics could advise him.

184255 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Charlie Blue, 5, #35 of 2450 🔗

Lose his licence to operate?
Be hounded by the EHOs?
They’ll get him one way or the other. I hope he has lots of customer support.

183347 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Londo Mollari, 16, #36 of 2450 🔗

Well done him. A calm and logical post, more power to his elbow.

183530 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to Londo Mollari, 11, #37 of 2450 🔗

Fantastic. Let’s have more.

183563 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Londo Mollari, 18, #38 of 2450 🔗

I haven’t got any money but I would chip into a bust fund for any resistors to this evil lockdown insanity. I have more than £100 quid in my pension plan, a wooden box with £1 and £2 coins in it. Anybody facing a fine for staying open is welcome to it.

184107 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Two-Six, 3, #39 of 2450 🔗
183657 ▶▶ Bob, replying to Londo Mollari, 16, #40 of 2450 🔗

Knife crime in London is 179 per 100k people. You are more likely to get stabbed in London than even catch Kung flu and that includes the bs testing numbers of people with no symptoms

183997 ▶▶ Roadrash, replying to Londo Mollari, 31, #41 of 2450 🔗

Heard of another gym owner who is refusing to close. If he does it will be for good and if he is fined and forced to close it will be for good too. He has nothing to lose.

im most concerned about the effect on young people. Unable to see their friends including boyfriend/girlfriends in each other’s houses. Take part in sports, go the gym, socialise indoors or even see their grand parents etc etc etc. It’s just a disgrace. Argue all you like about numbers but it plain morally wrong to impose this.

184111 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Roadrash, 7, #42 of 2450 🔗

Have you written to your MP to tell him/her that he/she is a spineless worm if he/she has toed the party line in this?
I’m about to write to mine who is showing grovelling subservience and not even talking a good talk.

185341 ▶▶▶▶ Linda B, replying to Banjones, 1, #43 of 2450 🔗

Yes, I wrote to my MP – I wrote twice for the first time I got back a letter that said absolutely nothing – just empty words and sentences. So I wrote again mentioning that she had not replied to any single question asked – Guess what? I got the exact same letter word for word saying exactly the same absolutely nothing – (mainly pretending she understood and was concerned about the loss of civil liberties blah blah blah- I have written a third time telling her she sent me the same pre written letter on the two other times I wrote to her. — I haven’t yet heard again. I can honestly say I am shattered at what is happening to our country as are millions of people are losing all they have ever worked for and the old folk are isolated, lonely and destroyed – and all I get back from the local conservative MP – It really does make me wonder what the MP actually cares about.

184780 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Roadrash, 8, #44 of 2450 🔗

This is the point where the local councils are going to get badly bitten. “Nothing left to lose” is the point where the local council is going to start to finally understand that if they successfully shut everything down, their revenue will be gone; not temporarily, but for good. FOR EVER.

Additionally, if someone is going to go bankrupt due to a successful forced closure by the stinking Covid Nazi, then a gym owner (who is likely to have far more muscles than the Covid Nazi) may decide to take the cost of the fines out of the hide of the Covid Nazi, and they will thoroughly deserve it.

Some of us may be docile people scared of losing a clean record, but others, truly, will have NOTHING to lose.

184079 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to Londo Mollari, 6, #45 of 2450 🔗

Well done!
(And they’re not ”cases” anyway, low though they are. Just fit and healthy people visiting a gym to remain fit.)

184182 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Londo Mollari, 3, #46 of 2450 🔗

One up vote for the gym owner and one for my all-time favourite sci-fi character!

185290 ▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #47 of 2450 🔗

The Shadows have taken control.

184781 ▶▶ Proudtobeapeasant, replying to Londo Mollari, 2, #48 of 2450 🔗

This is brilliant – so well thought out. I’m sharing it on Facebook (along with all the other anti-lockdown stuff I share. I’ve never shared much on Facebook but I do now…..) https://www.facebook.com/nick.whitcombe

185355 ▶▶ sam, replying to Londo Mollari, #49 of 2450 🔗

maybe they shoudl take legal action. THe gErman doctors alliance have the evidence to give people for their cases. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MWZP4B86rY&feature=youtu.be

Berlin 10102020: Better Normal, not New Normal – http://www.ACU2020.org – World Doctors Alliance

183216 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 28, #50 of 2450 🔗

From the round-up:
Michael Deacon, Parliamentary sketch writer for the Telegraph, says there was something unusual in Boris’s House of Commons speech yesterday – a complete absence of hope

It is this aspect that is the strangest thing. Most people seem prepared to go along with a strategy that offers no hope, and they angrily reject the optimistic strategy. We lockdown sceptics have been aware of this since March, of course, but we might have expected that everyone else would have twigged by now.

The quote from Charles Walker is excellent, but is, again, a ‘fringe’ viewpoint.

183243 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Barney McGrew, 38, #51 of 2450 🔗

6 months ago
“I have in my hand a piece of paper signed by Mr Whitty and Mr Vallence that promises to bring Health in our time…”

Phoney War on Covid.

Yesterday “I have to tell you that no such Health has been achieved and that consequently this country is now in a state of war with its own people…”

Time for bozo to do a Neville Chamberlain and just go.

183259 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 14, #52 of 2450 🔗

Unfortunately there is no Churchill waiting to step into his shoes.

183430 ▶▶▶▶ Tuppence Worth, replying to annie, 7, #53 of 2450 🔗

There is, and his name is Nigel.

183443 ▶▶▶▶▶ OpenYourEyes, replying to Tuppence Worth, 7, #54 of 2450 🔗

Or Desmond

183697 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to karenovirus, 15, #55 of 2450 🔗

Time for bozo and co to go to jail. Traitors the lot of them.

184118 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to karenovirus, 3, #56 of 2450 🔗

Brilliant! Thank you for a chuckle – which fast turned into sobs of frustration.

183521 ▶▶ Cbird, replying to Barney McGrew, 14, #57 of 2450 🔗

Just wondering – what is Kier Starmer for? Anybody?

183543 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Cbird, 12, #58 of 2450 🔗

Office and the perks that go with it.

183594 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Cbird, 7, #59 of 2450 🔗

Trilateral Commission (and himself!) MW

183702 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Cbird, 14, #60 of 2450 🔗

He is there to make sure the government’s insane policies get through Parliament without too much trouble. He’s doing this job magnificently and Boris is well pleased.

183714 ▶▶▶ pmdl, replying to Cbird, 2, #61 of 2450 🔗

Mr Trilateral Commission! if anybody thinks voting him in will change anything they really have not been paying attention

183809 ▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Cbird, 5, #62 of 2450 🔗

Kneeling

184527 ▶▶▶ Adam, replying to Cbird, 2, #63 of 2450 🔗

Establishment knob is starmer don’t trust Labour either

184114 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #64 of 2450 🔗

As I said above, I’m about to write to MP (but for all the good it does…..) and I’m also about to write to BJ – which will be ignored no doubt. But it makes ME feel better and it might waste someone’s time reading it in case they miss something they might censure me for.

184379 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Banjones, 2, #65 of 2450 🔗

It’s important to keep writing to your MP. They claim that more mockdown is what their constituents ask for.

FFS!

Don’t moan or complain. Just ask awkward questions. Ask for evidence to backup government policy.

Provide your own evidence and try to elicit a considered response.

Don’t expect a sensible reply but I think it’s good to keep prodding them. Try to write at least once a week.

184371 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #66 of 2450 🔗

It’s a long time since dePIffle wrote his own speeches.

183220 john, replying to john, 78, #67 of 2450 🔗

I think the three scale tier would be better described as “fucked”, “very fucked” , and “very, very fucked” – nothing to do with the virus, just the effect the government is having on the people…

183224 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to john, 27, #68 of 2450 🔗

Readers poll on Local Live (mirror group news)
1. Will the new Three Tier system be enough to (beat the rise in cases wotever)?
○ Yes
○ No
There is no option for
● It’s all bollocks, everyone back to normal tight away.

184136 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to karenovirus, 6, #69 of 2450 🔗

You’re absolutely right. All this is smoke and mirrors, and creating arguments among people as to degrees of lockdown, and whether rules are fair or unfair, etc.

This is all to distract us from the main point that it is, as you say, and I quote ”all bollocks”.

They’ve even had to add the flu figures to inflate the covid ones. So now, if people are admitted to hospital, no doubt they’re tested, and, if (false) positive for covid (OR flu) the increase in figures can be used to scare the gullible.

184805 ▶▶▶▶ Proudtobeapeasant, replying to Banjones, 1, #70 of 2450 🔗

Are you serious about flu figures being added to Covid ones? If so – link?

185567 ▶▶▶▶ Muzz Off, replying to Banjones, #71 of 2450 🔗

I think they’re just doing a combined report but I doubt they’d be brazen enough to combine the figures inside it

184385 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to karenovirus, 1, #72 of 2450 🔗

Wow.
There are loaded questions and have you stopped beating your wife yes or no questions!

183334 ▶▶ CGL, replying to john, 13, #73 of 2450 🔗

And we don’t ever get to “slightly fucked” or “not fucked”

183496 ▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to CGL, 6, #74 of 2450 🔗

Or a ” properly fucked but you get a kiss&cuddle at the end”

183350 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to john, 4, #75 of 2450 🔗

That’s actually much more accurate than the government’s shambolic one.

183473 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to john, 7, #76 of 2450 🔗

now Sage come out with their minutes suggesting the three tier strategy is useless

183221 GoogleAtItAgain, replying to GoogleAtItAgain, 11, #77 of 2450 🔗

Coronapanickers, Coronanists… All might replace “bedwetter”. And for those who fully collaborate and batay their fellow citizens, refer to such individuals as “Vidkun Covid-ling” or “Judas Covidiot”.

183245 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to GoogleAtItAgain, 4, #78 of 2450 🔗

Turncoats

183250 ▶▶ Hivemind, replying to GoogleAtItAgain, 6, #79 of 2450 🔗

Stasi informants, or Angela Merkel

184027 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Hivemind, 1, #80 of 2450 🔗

Covidstasi?

183433 ▶▶ Tuppence Worth, replying to GoogleAtItAgain, 9, #81 of 2450 🔗

“Coronanists”, yes, that is priceless, far better than bedwetters or stills!

183470 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Tuppence Worth, 1, #82 of 2450 🔗

Says it all to those that know 👌

183222 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 28, #83 of 2450 🔗

Much easier to lock up some poor sobs at the other end of the country than the people in your backyard, especially when those latter people can simply walk to 10 Downing Street and give you a piece of their mind.

183295 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 19, #84 of 2450 🔗

To Boris Oxford is the far north. Beyond that it’s Wildlings.

183467 ▶▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to thinkaboutit, 11, #85 of 2450 🔗

He once went to Carlisle and sat in a pub on, admittedly rather rough, Botchergate, whilst waiting for a train. He was terrified and wrote an article that clearly indicated that he believed that he had been among an alien species.

183732 ▶▶▶▶ peter, replying to Caroline Watson, 4, #86 of 2450 🔗

Botchergate was like Rio de Janeiro last weekend after all the pubs closed in Scotland. Will be mayhem this week too with the old firm game on.
Boris is right about Cumbrians, they are so retarded they vote Conservative over and over again. .

184031 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to peter, 6, #87 of 2450 🔗

The creatures outside looked from Tory to Labour, and from Labour to Tory, and from Tory to Labour again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.

184389 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Caroline Watson, 2, #88 of 2450 🔗

He’s right. However, he’s the alien.
Normal, decent people just don’t behave the way he has throughout his entire life.

184911 ▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Caroline Watson, 2, #89 of 2450 🔗

Back in the seventies I was waiting for a train in Carlisle and went into the pub near the station. The bar girl was bored and poking around. Then there was a loud bang, she went red and ran into the back room carrying the large revolver she’d found and accidentally discharged

184950 ▶▶▶▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to chris c, 1, #90 of 2450 🔗

Doesn’t surprise me. It’s a frontier town!!

183223 karenovirus, 19, #91 of 2450 🔗

Labour will abstain because they don’t want to share the guilt of further Harrying Of The North. They will not vote against because they want it to happen in the hope of rebuilding their red wall, probably correctly.

We’ve had lockins* round here for a while now and I expect they have up north too. What is now required is robust non-compliance from the good people of Liverpool.

* if you don’t know, ask your dad.

183225 Paul Mendelsohn, 3, #92 of 2450 🔗

As well as “bedwetters” perhaps we should appropriate another term to describe the mask fanatics – “covidiots?”

183226 Sally, replying to Sally, 5, #93 of 2450 🔗

Toby, are you really dispensing with the term “bedwetters” because it might alienate potential allies? If so, why are you proposing to replace it with something else that is also derogatory?

183229 ▶▶ RyanM, replying to Sally, 7, #94 of 2450 🔗

I don’t think the problem was that it is derogatory but that it refers to what could potentially be a real ailment. And “bedwetters, no offense to anyone with legitimate incontinence” seemed a bit cumbersome.

183233 ▶▶▶ Sally, replying to RyanM, 9, #95 of 2450 🔗

Toby very clearly explained on the London Calling podcast his concern that calling potential allies names was a turn-off. So substituting “Chin Wobblers” (wishy-washy as that is) or “Covid Neurotics” or another insult doesn’t make much sense.

183260 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Sally, 3, #96 of 2450 🔗

Who’s it turning off? Is chin wobble a recognised medical condition?

Thank goodness ‘zombie’ isn’t.

183604 ▶▶▶▶▶ ChrisDinBristol, replying to annie, #97 of 2450 🔗

I’m starting think that it is. . .

183622 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ChrisDinBristol, replying to ChrisDinBristol, 4, #98 of 2450 🔗

(maybe they should design a PCR test for zombie RNA, then we’d know for sure!)

184216 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to ChrisDinBristol, #99 of 2450 🔗

It would be 80%positive.

184214 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to ChrisDinBristol, #100 of 2450 🔗

There’s no doubt about it.

183605 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to annie, 1, #101 of 2450 🔗

My insult of choice to which I’ve added your ‘Dandelion’. I occasionally use ‘Nellies’. MW

183265 ▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Sally, 1, #102 of 2450 🔗

I just listened to it (after commenting). I am disappointed that he’s losing “face nappies,” though, since we don’t use that word, here, so it is even more amusing.

183296 ▶▶▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to Sally, #103 of 2450 🔗

I like White Walkers or coronaphobics.

183338 ▶▶▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to Cheshirecatslave, #104 of 2450 🔗

They’re experiencing covidiotism and are lockdun-philiacs

184210 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Sally, 2, #105 of 2450 🔗

If people are put off so easily, they’ll never be useful allies.

183600 ▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to RyanM, 6, #106 of 2450 🔗

Perhaps ‘bedshitters’ is a better term? 🙂

183633 ▶▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to James Bertram, 2, #107 of 2450 🔗

or just ‘Squitters’?

184037 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to RyanM, 1, #108 of 2450 🔗

Incontinence is not the same as wetting yourself from fright, or very young children who haven’t yet controlled their bladders.

Bedwetters refer to the latter two.

184381 ▶▶▶ paulito, replying to RyanM, 1, #109 of 2450 🔗

Is selfish ignorant wankers too in your face?

184466 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RyanM, 2, #110 of 2450 🔗

We shouldn’t be slagging off potential allies who are new to the site. That’s a really stupid and immature thing to do.

Abuse doesn’t help anybody. It’s judgemental and aggressive. Ok it might make you feel better but maybe keep your negative labels to yourself in this context.

We urgently need converts and we need to keep them on side. We must have more sympathy with those who were taken in by the propaganda but have now seen the light.
They probably feel pretty stupid anyway by the time they arrive here. We don’t need to rub it in by being smug and abusive.

184743 ▶▶▶▶ Judith Day, replying to Cheezilla, #111 of 2450 🔗

It is also unfair in the sense that there are people on the sceptical side of the argument who I would characterise as bedwetters; those that rail against the lockdowns and the wearing of masks, and then end their diatribe with “so I’m not going out anywhere and I have a weekly delivery from the supermarket”

What! You are not spiting the government by doing that! It is exactly what the government wants! You should be out shopping and non-mask wearing, not staying in and giving more money to big business.

184923 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to RyanM, 1, #112 of 2450 🔗

I actually WAS a bedwetter when I was young. I was diagnosed with “anxiety and neurosis”. Actually it was DIABETES. That was the first time I was misdiagnosed by our wonderful NHS. It was not the last.

183227 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 7, #113 of 2450 🔗

I’m sure Charlotte Kirkham is a lovely girl but the complaints outlined in her student survey are those of the true conformist.

Get out girl, live life, be a rebel. Students certainly are around here though, to their credit*, they seem to be avoiding interaction with the local population.

* from the point of view of a Second Wave fanatic.

183232 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to karenovirus, 10, #114 of 2450 🔗

She’s talking about to their SOCIAL credit – after all, students are going to have to live about fifty years of their lives as subjects of the Chinese Empire, so they need to get used to how it works.

183239 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 5, #115 of 2450 🔗

She has no idea that Social Credit is coming her way, she just doesn’t know how to enjoy life in an unsanctioned way and so will embrace Social Credit if it means the SU bar can open.

183279 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to karenovirus, 3, #116 of 2450 🔗

Hear,hear, go for it, girl, and boys and BLOODY everybody

183507 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to karenovirus, 23, #117 of 2450 🔗

Look, I said this before. If this was happening during my days in Uni, the lockdown would last about 5 minutes before the doors would be broken down and about 6 min before the first security marshal would be knocked out flat on his ass..Young people today are a bunch of softies (including 2 of nieces who are both still in Uni..and their boyfriends)

184189 ▶▶ BorisMustFall, replying to karenovirus, 3, #118 of 2450 🔗

not that easy, my daughter is also imprisoned on a university campus. the students ahve been threatened with hefty fines and expulsion if they disobay lockdown rules..

183228 RyanM, replying to RyanM, 18, #119 of 2450 🔗

I wonder when the rioting will start.

Honestly, today’s update has some pretty encouraging stuff, after the awful header…

183354 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to RyanM, 10, #120 of 2450 🔗

Coming soon.

We’re heading into the middle of October which means that furlough is ending in two weeks. Come November expect a raft of more unemployment and bankruptcies.

183478 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to RyanM, 2, #121 of 2450 🔗

not when but where

184543 ▶▶ Adam, replying to RyanM, 1, #122 of 2450 🔗

It’s not far off Johnson is going to push people too far and he will end up on his fatass after a smack on his Chin or 3 of his chins

183230 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 21, #123 of 2450 🔗

johnsons strategy is to impose unwelcome sanctions on people who don’t like him and have those sanctions implemented by by local politicians and public servants who oppose him and would love to see him fail.

Twat.

183261 ▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 12, #124 of 2450 🔗

Din’t forget that the majority of those people are Dandelions who believe that Covid will Get Them if they put their noses outside the door, or put their brains in gear. And don’t forget that there us no anti-cretinist party at present. It’s about bloody time there was, north, south and centre.

183281 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to annie, 4, #125 of 2450 🔗

No, Dandelions are tough little sods.
Pansies, perhaps?

183315 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Fingerache Philip., 12, #126 of 2450 🔗

The French word for dandelion literally means ‘piss in bed’.
‘Pissabed’ is also an English dialect word for a dandelion.

183402 ▶▶▶▶▶ Melangell, replying to annie, 8, #127 of 2450 🔗

The term dandelion is an unwarranted insult on a plant that has numerous medicinal properties and provides essential nutrition to bees! Its cheerful yellow petals turning always to the sun, its strong determined root, are far more symbolic of lockdown refuseniks than Covid phobics! Fair play for dandelions!

183452 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to annie, 1, #128 of 2450 🔗

In my area ( Worcestershire/Shropshire/Staffordshire borderlands), Poppies, not Dandelions were blamed for kids “wetting their beds”

184481 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Fingerache Philip., #129 of 2450 🔗

Do you still give laudanum to children in your area? I thought everyone’s been using phenergan since the 80s.

183625 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to annie, 1, #130 of 2450 🔗

Oh and cretins, thanks for reminding me and you are, of course, right. MW

183270 ▶▶ bucky99, replying to karenovirus, 2, #131 of 2450 🔗

Think it’s a bit much to describe it as a strategy…

183349 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to karenovirus, 2, #132 of 2450 🔗

Partly explains the smirking.

184040 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to karenovirus, 1, #133 of 2450 🔗

People who don’t like him: Right now, that’s the majority of people who voted for him. Bad mistake.

183231 NorthumbrianNomad, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 20, #134 of 2450 🔗

Just read the best, most to-the-point comment ever about this, in response to that video of teens at a prom dancing back-to-back.

I’ve said it before and it still applies. We are being punked as a species. And it is on every single person who accepts this crap.”

183235 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 17, #135 of 2450 🔗

Some very good comments in the Mail every day now, overwhelmingly sceptic and well informed.

183411 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to karenovirus, 13, #136 of 2450 🔗

But why does the news section regurgitate the government’s propaganda in its main headlines? A great start would be: always put the word ‘cases’ in quotation marks.

183487 ▶▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #137 of 2450 🔗

I actually like that-the Mail always juxtapose the govt stuff with articles with easy to read diagrams. This presentation compares favourably with the rather wordy commentary in the Telegraph.

183619 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #138 of 2450 🔗

Yes, please, Toby Young, it’s ‘cases’ not cases. Otherwise it’s buying in. MW

184483 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #139 of 2450 🔗

I’d spotted that!

184518 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Cheezilla, #140 of 2450 🔗

I get a bit irritated with it. MW

183643 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Barney McGrew, #141 of 2450 🔗

They don’t want to jeopardize future Covid advertising.

183234 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 15, #142 of 2450 🔗

Tier Three ‘pubs can only open if they act as restaurants . . . serving a substantial meal’.

“6 pints please luv and a plate of cheesy chips ta”

Reminds me of Luncheon Vouchers. These were a throwback from WW2 in which workers could be partly remunerated with food vouchers (tax free?).
Establishments that accepted these had signs reading

“Luncheon Vouchers accepted for bona fide meals only”

They were still around until the 80s when they realised that nobody knew what ‘Luncheon’ meant anymore and thought that ‘bona fide’ meant giving the dog a bone.

183238 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to karenovirus, 7, #143 of 2450 🔗

See, this shows how they fail to understand the north. In darkest Northumberland, a “substantial meal” is what we call it when a juicy tourist walks into the pub. So the government is actually PREVENTING substantial meals from travelling to the area, then punishing pubs for not serving them.

183241 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to karenovirus, 44, #144 of 2450 🔗

.

184017 ▶▶▶ DomW, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #145 of 2450 🔗

Superb! Thanks for making me laugh out loud on a (not so packed) tube train with a bunch of compliant maskees, with just the odd nose-nudger offering any resistance.

183262 ▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 8, #146 of 2450 🔗

So a substantial meal keeps you safe from Coviddesth?
Good news for those of us who like our food.

183370 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, 5, #147 of 2450 🔗

Perhaps that would weed out labeling sandwich, crisps and fruit as a substantial meal.

As someone of East Asian descent, that to me is an abomination and not a proper lunch.

184489 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #148 of 2450 🔗

That’s a death knell for school lunches then.

184895 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #149 of 2450 🔗

If I had a kid, I would never send them with merely a sandwich.

184393 ▶▶▶ paulito, replying to annie, 2, #150 of 2450 🔗

In Ireland you have to spend at least 9 euros on food in a pub or face certain death.

183332 ▶▶ Gillian, replying to karenovirus, 6, #151 of 2450 🔗

I got luncheon vouchers at my first proper job in Blythswood Square, Glasgow in 1980. Worth 15 pence a day. The sandwich bar at the corner of the square would take them against anything, newspaper, ciggies etc. Even in 1980 15 pence wouldn’t buy you a cheese roll. I used to collect them to use against a proper meal usually they went beyond their date before I had enough. Happy days,

183544 ▶▶▶ LS99, replying to Gillian, 4, #152 of 2450 🔗

LVs, like Green Shield Stamps, seem rather quaint now.

184490 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to LS99, 1, #153 of 2450 🔗

Nectar and Tesco club nowadays.

183585 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to karenovirus, 4, #154 of 2450 🔗

” ‘bona fide’ meant giving the dog a bone”-lol
How very Tony Hancock!

183711 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Two-Six, 1, #155 of 2450 🔗

About the same age too… 🙂

183236 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 9, #156 of 2450 🔗

Charles Walker MP for Prime Minister and Chief Medical Officer, might as well give him the BBC as well.

183495 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to karenovirus, 2, #157 of 2450 🔗

I though it was quite telling his interview appeared at the 12 min-not shunted to the 40 min mark.

183734 ▶▶ Jo, replying to karenovirus, 1, #158 of 2450 🔗

I have emailed him to say thank you.

185196 ▶▶ Linda B, replying to karenovirus, 1, #159 of 2450 🔗

Yay!

183237 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 8, #160 of 2450 🔗

BBC Website 12th Oct.
‘Covid reinfection: Man catches Coronovirus twice and second hit more severe.’

Won’t bore you with the details but
1st infection March
2nd infection June.

Come on BBC you can do better than that at providing scary ‘news’.

183323 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 4, #161 of 2450 🔗

Was on R2 7am news, no mention of it saying back to June.
Got it out of the file named ‘scary story for a quiet day’.

183330 ▶▶ l835, replying to karenovirus, 4, #162 of 2450 🔗

Doesn’t this say more about the mans immune system? Inability to develop antibodies???

183407 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to l835, 5, #163 of 2450 🔗

More likely one or other test was a false positive if they were so close together. I haven’t looked at the actual story.

183653 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to l835, 3, #164 of 2450 🔗

I don’t know. My point is why did they sit on it for four months before running with it today.
Was on the main R4 news as well.

183404 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to karenovirus, 2, #165 of 2450 🔗

Is this the same guy who tested positive at the airport?

183579 ▶▶ Basics, replying to karenovirus, 8, #166 of 2450 🔗

Devi has been pushing at reinfection as it is clearly an attack on natural immunity – makes a vaccine the only saviour. Firt there was one case, the 4, then 11 and now this one. All seem very dubious. Scientists need to be carefully exposing this reinfection craze they are trying to muster.

183240 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 11, #167 of 2450 🔗

Just woken up. Is the pig dictator still in charge?

183244 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cecil B, 6, #168 of 2450 🔗

Still pretending to be in charge Cecil.

183263 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, 4, #169 of 2450 🔗

Think pork scratchings, crackling, bacon sandwiches and pig’s trotters.

183546 ▶▶▶ LS99, replying to annie, 3, #170 of 2450 🔗

With some SAGE flavoured trimmings!

184494 ▶▶▶▶ Garry Mitchell, replying to LS99, 1, #171 of 2450 🔗

Any use for the squeak that’s left?

184929 ▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Garry Mitchell, 1, #172 of 2450 🔗

Can’t sell it to British Leyland any more

183339 ▶▶ Albie, replying to Cecil B, 4, #173 of 2450 🔗

No. SAGE are. Led by unelected PM Whitty.

183242 LA_Bob, replying to LA_Bob, #174 of 2450 🔗

Regarding “ Why has Google censored the Great Barrington Declaration? ”, I don’t understand. The Spiked article is dated Oct 12 (today still in the USA). When I google great barrington declaration, the first hit is the website with the declaration and signing opportunity.

There’s plenty of censorship to complain about, but this doesn’t seem to be an example of it.

183247 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to LA_Bob, 12, #175 of 2450 🔗

It was disappeared for a couple of days then miraculously found it’s way back.

183299 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to LA_Bob, 7, #176 of 2450 🔗

Important people remember Google doesn’t show same results to everyone. If you’ve visited a site repeatedly it’ll show up in your results but not, maybe, for someone who hasn’t visited it. It’s made tracking search rankings for SEO an absolute nightmare over the years. For me, it still doesn’t show, the whole first page is just news items criticising it

183333 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to LA_Bob, 2, #177 of 2450 🔗

I’m not seeing it. But I am seeing Google explaining that the site is very new and the analytics take time. There’s also the very strong possibility that the Great Barringtonians aren’t great at SEO.
Incidentally, that linked Guardian article makes the point also advanced here, that the GBD lacks the courage of its own convictions. They aren’t going to get anywhere by compromise and appeasement so they might as well declare what they actually believe.

183397 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to LA_Bob, 4, #178 of 2450 🔗

Try incognito mode (or the equivalent). It is still censored, although top hits now seem to be articles about its censorship. There is a bullshit response from Google blabbering about search rankings needing to build up, but it is lies.

183536 ▶▶▶ Basileus, replying to TheBluePill, 6, #179 of 2450 🔗

Try DuckDuckGo: they don’t steal your data.

183246 The Dark Lord, 8, #180 of 2450 🔗

ok … how about f**king bedwetters …

183248 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 28, #181 of 2450 🔗

Our local police force has 3,000 officers

From day one in March they just carried on as normal

No social distancing, no hand sanitiser, no ppe, in fact non of the corona bollocks

Guess what? No illness and no deaths

184222 ▶▶ RichT, replying to Cecil B, 5, #182 of 2450 🔗

Same with supermarkets. Where I work they sent all the vulnerable people home on extended holiday, whilst the rest of us (vast majority) got on with work as normal. What an interesting strategy huh!!!.

183249 Hivemind, 27, #183 of 2450 🔗

I agree that “bedwetters” is a bad name. For a start, you’ve got to be on top of the bed, not hiding underneath it.

183251 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 37, #184 of 2450 🔗

It is important to follow the science when dealing with the rona

So what do we know so far

It knows the time of day
It knows where you are the country
It can speak many languages including Welsh
It can distinguish between a pub and a restaurant
It knows the exact location of the England/Scottish border
It knows what a substantial meal is
It has the plans of the house of commons showing where the bars are
It knows your age
It knows your ethnic origin
It knows the location of all the shops
It has your full service history and knows if you are mask exempt or not
It can distinguish between public transport and other forms of transport
It knows if you are really mask exempt or just being bloody difficult
It knows the names of all the students in the country

But most important of all it knows where YOU live

183264 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, 13, #185 of 2450 🔗

In that case it knows that a total sceptic lives in my house and doesn’t give a s..t for it.
And has a perfectly dry bed.

183271 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Cecil B, 10, #186 of 2450 🔗

It also knows what, if any dental treatment you can receive and it probably knows your voting history and political affiliations.

It also knows your BMI and what library books you read and how many.

It also knows what programmes you watch, how you watch them and whether you have a telly licence.

183294 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to wendyk, 3, #187 of 2450 🔗

I hear this a bunch, but I’m curious. What is a telly license?

183311 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to RyanM, 5, #188 of 2450 🔗

It’s a licence you have to have in the UK in order to watch live TV. Pretty archaic. In reality a tax used to fund the BBC.

183318 ▶▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to matt, 4, #189 of 2450 🔗

So not like cable, in that it’s broadcast? But it’s voluntary? Meaning that if you don’t pay you’re essentially agreeing to not watch the thing? Why on earth would anyone pay that? It seems about like putting taxes on the honor system…

183325 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to RyanM, 4, #190 of 2450 🔗

You need to pay it on top of a cable or satellite subscription, even if you never watch the BBC, if you watch live TV at all. It’s currently a criminal offence not to pay it if you watch TV or use the BBC iPlayer (their streaming service). The government has been making noises about decriminalising it though. A bit like masks – many people pay it because they’re supposed to and they don’t want the hassle.

183327 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to matt, 7, #191 of 2450 🔗

Have to say it sounds even crazier when I read it explained like that to someone who didn’t know what it was. On the plus side, you get a discount if your TV is black and white. Because that’s still a thing.

184497 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, 1, #192 of 2450 🔗

But an ever-increasing number is refusing to pay it this year. Heh heh!

183329 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to RyanM, 3, #193 of 2450 🔗

Because until recently you could be jailed for not having one, usually the lady of the house if husband at work or single mom.
Yes, they really did go to jail.

183345 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to karenovirus, 4, #194 of 2450 🔗

That is nuts. How do they know you’re watching TV, though?

Seems that scheme couldn’t outlive the internet…

183348 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to RyanM, 6, #195 of 2450 🔗

They don’t know. They assume. If you don’t pay, they bombard you with threatening letters until you do.

183639 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to matt, 4, #196 of 2450 🔗

We’ve been getting them for years and we just ignore them. Nothing happens. MW

183574 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to RyanM, 3, #197 of 2450 🔗

For fun search ‘bbc tv detector vans’. Mind control has long been apart of the broadcasting experience.

183441 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Suze Burtenshaw, replying to RyanM, 6, #198 of 2450 🔗

Hi Ryan, you are not obliged to buy a licence but if you don’t have one, you are not allowed to watch any live programmes on any channel, also any ‘catch up’ programmes on BBC. You can, if you wish, watch any other channel’s catch up progs. We decided to go licence-free in August as you could count the number of progs we watched on live tv. It just wasn’t worth it. To date, we’ve received three letters telling us we need a licence. I am waiting eagerly for some bozo to arrive on my doorstep and try to browbeat me into submission. We abide by the diktats outlined by the BBC so we most assuredly DON’T need a licence! Bring it on, I’m thinking. 🙂

184502 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Suze Burtenshaw, 2, #199 of 2450 🔗

I didn’t renew back in May. Not a squeak from them so far. Just a thank you for letting them know and if things change blah blah

183340 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to matt, 4, #200 of 2450 🔗

Remember when we had to have a licence to listen to the radio ?
Transistor radios put paid to that because how can you be in a ‘household’ lf listening on a bus or at the beach

183346 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to karenovirus, 1, #201 of 2450 🔗

Yeah – I was just thinking about that and specifically how it was an extra level of stupid.

183353 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to matt, 2, #202 of 2450 🔗

Good-ness. Doesn’t get much more stupid than those… Though I suppose we get taxed plenty.

Well, I used to say “that crap would never fly, here,” but now I see people wearing masks in the street. We aren’t quite like what Toqueville saw on his trip, anymore.

183612 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to RyanM, 2, #203 of 2450 🔗

AH bless, it’s a liscence for your TV. We call a TV a telly here in the UK 😉

183275 ▶▶ cloud6, replying to Cecil B, 2, #204 of 2450 🔗

You missed one…..

It’s coming for you

183278 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Cecil B, 5, #205 of 2450 🔗

It knows to leave you alone when you’re bagging a few grouse with your chums. As long as the beaters are masked, all ok.

183286 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Cecil B, 2, #206 of 2450 🔗

Forgot: up here it knows whether you Listen to Nicola or whether you resort to using expletives in the privacy of your own home and refuse to obey.

It also knows how to inform the local cops of any infringements of the Rule of Six,as it can count and it can identify familial and non familial relationships.

183359 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cecil B, 6, #207 of 2450 🔗

It can judge distance (carries a tape measure)
It can judge people’s ages and medical vulnerabilities (so it knows if you are with someone who is in a ‘risk group’)
It also knows your occupation (BBC, politicians and celebs exempt from rules)

183393 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cecil B, 5, #208 of 2450 🔗

It can only move in one direction
It knows your shopping preferences
It knows your clothes size
It knows what books you read
It can count to six
It can tell time

However will it be able to tell the time once the clocks change? Will it tell the difference between GMT and UTC?

183599 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #209 of 2450 🔗

Covids operate on Eastern Standard Time, so 6 hours behind the UK, they don’t care about the clocks changing.

183513 ▶▶ alw, replying to Cecil B, 5, #210 of 2450 🔗

It knows you when you walk into restaurant.
It knows when you are sitting down.
It knows when you are going to the loo.
It knows who is a waiter and who is customer eating his meal at a table.
It knows when there is more than 6 in a queue.

https://laworfiction.com/2020/09/face-covering-some-pretend-law/

183618 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cecil B, 3, #211 of 2450 🔗

It knows your height and weight too

183252 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 22, #212 of 2450 🔗

I must concede I have been under a misapprehension. I thought that, over the past few months, the debate among the health professionals was about how dangerous Covid really is (based on the actual data about it) and whether restrictions can be lifted.

I now realise this is not the case. They are working on the same fatality rate as in Ferguson’s original model. They are only trying to calibrate the degree of restriction needed to suppress the rate of infection. If you open a school, you must close the restaurants. That kind of calibration.

Under this scenario, we stay restricted until a vaccine arrives. But, if no vaccine arrives, we still stay restricted. My guess is that this would be about ten years. Ten years would allow a population of terminally ill people to develop who have already had Covid. This would mean they can comfortably die of a different infection, but not Covid. I’m sure that will be a big relief to them.

183257 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to WhyNow, 11, #213 of 2450 🔗

Using fergusons model it will never be safe for anyone to do anything anywhere. Feed it with hobnobs and the result would be the same despite it having no relationship with reality.

183258 ▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to karenovirus, 18, #214 of 2450 🔗

I’m not sure the public really knows this. I suspect that many people, like me, thought that we would ease restrictions as we learnt it was not as bad as feared. But now we know that’s not true. Restrictions are here to stay.

183314 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to WhyNow, 19, #215 of 2450 🔗

I kept telling people this, from the start, that there was no exit strategy. And I keep telling it to them now, when the case is even more obvious. People with university degrees in STEM subjects. They either shut down completely or mumble about a vaccine.

183272 ▶▶ matt, replying to WhyNow, 25, #216 of 2450 🔗

I think this is the key problem with the GBD – but I also don’t know how you’d get around it. The “fact” that the virus is far too dangerous to be left to do its thing is just taken as a complete given and nobody questions it. All of the few sceptical voices you do hear in the media have to get in a little sentence that acknowledges the unrelenting danger. So the GBD can’t go as far as to suggest that we just drop the nonsense and get on with our lives. On the other hand, if they did that, nobody would listen to them at all.

In reality, for absolutely everybody – including the very old and co-morbid – there are many things around us that we should be at least as concerned about and probably more so. But it’s ok, because you’re allowed to die of those things as long as you don’t die of this.

183288 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to matt, 13, #217 of 2450 🔗

I thought the same when I read it. They are offering a sort of compromise, meaning they are actually hoping to be heard and have some impact.

Of course I signed. But I also think we could drop the nonsense (and we should).

183709 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to WhyNow, #218 of 2450 🔗

The vaccine wont change anything – well other then that the state will now be trying to force that upon us along with everything else.

184509 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Saved To Death, #219 of 2450 🔗

The vaccine paves the way for the real goal, the “health” passport.

183749 ▶▶ djaustin, replying to WhyNow, #220 of 2450 🔗

There will be other options in addition to a vaccine – A certain well-known patient has had passive vaccination in antibodies and is “immune” (at least until they wear off in about 3 months). Better antibodies are coming for this protection and prophylaxis trials are underway.

183253 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 4, #221 of 2450 🔗

Barrister Francis Hoar – Judicial Review & The Legality of Lockdown & the Media – 12th Oct 2020
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOfJv6tpiMA

183256 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 6, #222 of 2450 🔗

POLICE STATE

Police attempt to serve papers on Piers Corbyn telling him not to go to Cardiff Rally 11/10/20

Police attempt to serve papers on Piers Corbyn and warn he MIGHT get arrested if he goes to Cardiff Rally 11/10/20 because it’s a Local Health Protection Area = Exclusion Zone. He’s still going and says people should go in huge numbers. Free Cardiff! #WeDoNotConsent

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP2TKHHuW9c

183567 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 3, #223 of 2450 🔗

Political policing. They lose consent.

183266 Cecil B, 6, #224 of 2450 🔗

Defund the dictatorship

183268 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 38, #225 of 2450 🔗

This is ‘off message’, but if any despondent and exasperated sceptics need a diversion, go out and look at the clear sky: Mars is at its brightest, gleaming in red in the west.

Sirius is twinkling below Orion and there are no clouds here to spoil the view.

This wonderful display has raised my flagging spirits.

183282 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to wendyk, 7, #226 of 2450 🔗

Mars has indeed looked glorious over the past few nights.

183290 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Mr Dee, 4, #227 of 2450 🔗

Yes, the past few very early mornings, when it hasn’t rained , have been very special .It looks like a red lantern beckoning us all to sanity.

If only! Wishful thinking.

183303 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to wendyk, 12, #228 of 2450 🔗

Mars is the planet of war. Take strength from it.

I don’t do astrology, but I find meaning in symbolism.

183309 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to annie, 2, #229 of 2450 🔗

Good point Ann.

184512 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, 2, #230 of 2450 🔗

It’s also fire energy. It can give momentum. Let’s hope that goes to the right group and is channelled in a positive direction!

183447 ▶▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #231 of 2450 🔗

I wish the little green men would hurry up and take over they couldn’t possibly be any worse than the morons who control us at the moment

183391 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to wendyk, 6, #232 of 2450 🔗

Thanks. It’s not off message at all. Taking a break from this and recharging is important. Even the simple things can be a much needed distraction.

183273 Danny, replying to Danny, 72, #233 of 2450 🔗

We are all pretty much in agreement on this forum, albeit coming from wildly different political backgrounds. The response to the virus is entirely disproportionate to the danger. But for me, the most exasperating thing is not that we are a minority. It’s not even that we have to try to live rationally amidst a sea of masks. The worst part for me is that a majority of people I speak to don’t even seem to mind. The lockdown has not impacted upon their well intentioned middle class life. They already work from home. They are already content to see family just once a year and by zoom. They have Ocado deliveries rather than queue. The kids play in the back garden and live on their phones rather than real social interaction. So because none of this directly affects them, they see the lockdown as a valiant act of self abnegation and all part of a collective “we”re all in this together” movement, and feel all noble about it. Challenge this rhetoric and we are the ones called selfish.

183274 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Danny, 17, #234 of 2450 🔗

What gets me even more, is that I know many people who HAVE been directly affected by all of this, and they still seem quite indifferent! I don’t understand, even redundancy doesn’t seem to do the trick.

183276 ▶▶▶ John Smith, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 5, #235 of 2450 🔗

A full year on the buroo will concentrate minds for sure.

183280 ▶▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to John Smith, 9, #236 of 2450 🔗

I’m not even sure it will, they seem really convinced that it’s all the deadly pandemic’s fault. Admittedly, everyone I know who has faced redundancy or reduced income probably has reasonable savings, so won’t be immediately destitute, but surely the lightbulb in their heads will light up eventually…

183284 ▶▶▶▶▶ John Smith, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 8, #237 of 2450 🔗

They’ll find out soon enough. Might be tmoro, next month or 6 months or even a year hence.

But theyre going to understand and they’re going to understand good.

183341 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to John Smith, 9, #238 of 2450 🔗

It’s true, they will. Sooner rather than later I hope as we need people to realise and get angry, it’s the only way out of this.

183422 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Marialta, replying to John Smith, 25, #239 of 2450 🔗

I was out leafleting and chatting to shoppers with my local Keep Britain Free group on Saturday. I spoke to about 14 people – even the masked ones were happy to discuss BUT the point is they just don’t read or hear anything other than MSM! They were so misinformed and ignorant of facts. This has to be the most depressing aspect of this whole farce! It’s MEDIA we must change – this will not end ever otherwise. Not even when they are destitute, this is how propaganda works

183677 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Marialta, 8, #240 of 2450 🔗

It’s crazy isn’t it. It’s so easy to find piles of data and a counter narrative on covid but just about everybody JUST WILL NOT LOOK OR LISTEN to anything that isn’t on MSM. Absolutely mental. My whole family are like that sadly.

183560 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Alan P, replying to John Smith, 3, #241 of 2450 🔗

Trouble is we’ll be paying for it as well.
I look forward to the “I told you so” moments, but will it be worth the financial and mental torture we will all have gone through?

183324 ▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 7, #242 of 2450 🔗

Negative interest rates and their savings taken by the banks or their houses being in negative equity should do it.

Ask them if they remember the financial crash in 2008, if they do that can x that by 10, it’s coming.

183356 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to stefarm, 6, #243 of 2450 🔗

Yeah I know, even if we reverse course right now it’s still inevitable. Fun.

184084 ▶▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to John Smith, 2, #244 of 2450 🔗

Now buroo isn’t a word I’ve heard in a while.

183423 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 9, #245 of 2450 🔗

They will change their tune once their savings and pensions are subjected to tax raids which Sunak has never ruled out.

And for those who crow that “working from home” is here to stay ad infinitum, they should be careful what they wish for. A lot of pensions and savings are invested in prime real estate and if the likes of the City of London go bust, the value of their pension & savings pot will be as worthless as the Deutsche Mark in Weimar Germany.

183435 ▶▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to Bart Simpson, 9, #246 of 2450 🔗

A bit of me wishes that the smug workers from home who say we can’t be too careful and should lock down just in case are made redundant and replaced by people working from home in Estonia.

183438 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Bart Simpson, 9, #247 of 2450 🔗

I’m sorry to say – and I’m not crowing, because I don’t think it’s wholly a good thing – that working from home is going to be at least massively increased forever now.

There is a certain amount of stupidity in the idea that most people should have to travel up to an hour each way to sit and stare at a computer screen, when they have a perfectly good internet connection at home (my “pipe” at home is significantly better than anything I would get in the office). The last 7 months have been a massive, enforced experiment on whether it can work and I just can’t see many companies going back to even 50% office working. Sad (very sad) to say, central London is now permanently stuffed.

183535 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to matt, 7, #248 of 2450 🔗

Whilst I agree with you to some extent, there are people who do better when they don’t work from home. I have a friend who would rather do her two hour commute rather than be stuck in her one bedroom flat.

Or what about me & Mr Bart who has had to put up with noisy neighbours and living in a not so good area?

Working from home is not for everyone, there should be a choice.

183628 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to matt, 8, #249 of 2450 🔗

I’m one of the few who still work in heavy engineering. I think the neighbours will complain if I worked from home!!

183671 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to matt, 2, #250 of 2450 🔗

You smoke a pipe?

183652 ▶▶▶▶ caalchas, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #251 of 2450 🔗

If you can work from home in Maidstone, then that same work can be done from Manila or Mumbai

184083 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to caalchas, 4, #252 of 2450 🔗

For some jobs maybe. I need people with connections across a multi-national organisation, who can communicate fluently, and have a deep understanding of our sector. This isn’t an easy skill set to acquire, and I am not sure anyone sitting at home all the time – whether in Maidstone or Manila – can do it.

I’ve been doing this a long time, and I don’t think I could sustain it – even with a good foundation to build on – for a sustained period of time. Certainly not indefinitely. No idea how anyone new could build up the knowledge base or relationships you need virtually.

183369 ▶▶ bucky99, replying to Danny, 24, #253 of 2450 🔗

I’d put myself somewhere in that ‘middle class life’ bracket, but can assure you I’m livid with the ridiculous restrictions. Which I generally tend to ignore.

183436 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Danny, 3, #254 of 2450 🔗

That certainly describes the lifestyle of the politicians, public health ‘experts’ and statistical modellers spouting off about which towns and cities require ever more stringent lockdown.

183485 ▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to Danny, 9, #255 of 2450 🔗

But working class Scousers and Geordies don’t live like that. When they reopened the pubs last time, lads were jumping off bridges into the Tyne. They were stir crazy. And the Northern working class live in the same few streets as their families. They are each other’s support network.
This attack on the North will not end well!

183277 JudgeMental, replying to JudgeMental, 13, #256 of 2450 🔗

The WHO are talking bollocks again

“THE HEAD OF the World Health Organisation has warned against allowing Covid-19 to spread in the hope of achieving so-called herd immunity, saying to do so is “unethical”

He is saying we can only only reach herd immunity with a vaccine. Completely ignoring what Sweden have achieved so far.

https://www.thejournal.ie/world-health-organisation-herd-immunity-covid-19-5231174-Oct2020/?utm_source=twitter_short

183312 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to JudgeMental, 19, #257 of 2450 🔗

The ethics of leaving tens of thousands of curable cancer patients to rot at home until they die unnecessarily in agony are of no consequence, of course.

183322 ▶▶ Schrodinger, replying to JudgeMental, 8, #258 of 2450 🔗

A vaccine is just inducing artificial herd immunity (if it occurs naturally first, so much the better), clearly they are idiots:

herd immunity
noun

  1. the resistance to the spread of a contagious disease within a population that results if a sufficiently high proportion of individuals are immune to the disease, especially through vaccination.
183468 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Schrodinger, 3, #259 of 2450 🔗

Brilliant quote!
So they don’t want lockdowns and they don’t want vaccination… ?

183558 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Schrodinger, 8, #260 of 2450 🔗

Sridhar and others have explicitly written and said natural herd immunity is bad, vaccine herd immunity is what they hope to achieve. Apparently vaccine herd immunity is safe (how the hell will they know?) while natural herd immunity is thuggishly refered to as letting it rip. Crass purile words from immature pseudo scientists and politicians.

184090 ▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Basics, 3, #261 of 2450 🔗

That can only possibly be the case if you have a 100% safe vaccine.

And if I think of my children, if I gave them a vaccine that caused them irreparable harm, I’d somehow feel a lot more unethical than if they caught a virus that caused them harm (which this one is unlikely to do anyway). Because, you know, viruses happen but vaccination is an active choice.

183381 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to JudgeMental, 1, #262 of 2450 🔗

I’d be surprised if there aren’t others at the WHO, who disagree. Hoping he’s shot himself in the foot again on this one.

183428 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to JudgeMental, 7, #263 of 2450 🔗

That guy should never be listened to. His handling of this has been shambolic and when this is all over, he should be hauled before the Hague for this.

183663 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #264 of 2450 🔗

That would be a start.

183483 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to JudgeMental, 7, #265 of 2450 🔗

I think the best answer is this

 “So, to be clear, WHO would say Sweden was unethical in maintaining access to healthcare, employment and education, at the expense of allowing herd immunity to limit mortality to the same level as countries who prevented such access?

https://twitter.com/bell00david/status/1315763389713375234

184965 ▶▶ chris c, replying to JudgeMental, 1, #266 of 2450 🔗

Comes pretty directly from an interview with Bill Gates I saw back at the start of this where he said it was important that people did not develop immunity before the vaccine arrived to save us all

183283 Mark II, replying to Mark II, 60, #267 of 2450 🔗

Have to say I agree with PM that the new rules are simpler

They’ve done away with the charades of level 1 and 2, of the earlier 5 level system, and now openly admit we have no prospect for, and that they have no intention of letting us, going back to normal.

Medium risk and extreme interventions such as the rule of 6, masks everywhere, social distancing and 10pm curfews is now the best we can have… They’re normalising this as if we should be grateful to find ourselves in a ‘tier 1’ zone, but make no mistake these are still very very extreme interventions and impositions on our lives.

I could not be angrier.

184534 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark II, 1, #268 of 2450 🔗

You’re right. The responses on my MPs fb page yesterday were mostly of the thank goodness we’re only in level two variety.

183285 paulito, replying to paulito, 37, #269 of 2450 🔗

A few words on The Mail’s story on the protests yesterday in Madrid. Firstly, although called by the right wing Vox party, it wasn’t only their supporters who took part. Secondly, the protests took place all over the country. I attended one in the northern city where I live. There was also a protest at the Royal Palace in Madrid at an event to mark Spain’s national holiday. The PM and other members of the government were greeted with boos, shouts of murderers and calls for the resignation of the entire government. I hope that people here are finally waking up.

183287 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to paulito, 4, #270 of 2450 🔗

Good to hear… What were numbers like tho?

183358 ▶▶▶ paulito, replying to Mark II, 5, #271 of 2450 🔗

Massive in Madrid and pretty good in the rest of Spain. The second video shows the arrival of the PM at the Royal palace. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-rzZyAL4ls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mVl0myB040

183363 ▶▶▶▶ paulito, replying to paulito, 2, #272 of 2450 🔗

Sorry. Linled to wrong video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEk5XBuSYqo

183375 ▶▶▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to paulito, 2, #273 of 2450 🔗

Very encouraging. Looked like a peaceful demonstration to me

184544 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to paulito, #274 of 2450 🔗

Inspiring. Thanks!

183292 ▶▶ annie, replying to paulito, 8, #275 of 2450 🔗

I hope so too.
The UK is also ruled by multiple murderers.

183431 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to paulito, 2, #276 of 2450 🔗

Well done and hope this inspires more people worldwide.

Plus this should be front page news not only in Spain but around the world.

183832 ▶▶ leggy, replying to paulito, 1, #277 of 2450 🔗

I just spoke to a colleague in Madrid. He had no idea there were protests anywhere else in the country.

184398 ▶▶▶ paulito, replying to leggy, 1, #278 of 2450 🔗

MEN ignored them.

184401 ▶▶▶▶ paulito, replying to paulito, 1, #279 of 2450 🔗

Dammed predictive text. MSM ignored them.

183289 Cheshirecatslave, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 22, #280 of 2450 🔗

I used to love reading my blog friends’ posts but nowadays they are just depressing.

A lady in America was in a right state as her niece who lives next door has a new job “something to do with health care” and she fears she’ll get covid and they’ll all die.

Another lady in Germany went to an outdoor yodelling class but concluded, “Never again, it’s far too risky.”

Another blog buddy in Spain claimed that “The uncertainty is worse than the lockdown.” (The Spanish weren’t even allowed out for walks then).

Another blog buddy said “My neighbour fixed my dishwasher and we were very careful and distanced and wore masks.”

It’s post after post like this every day or wails that someone in a shop wasn’t wearing a mask or something.

I know no one wants to get ill and one should be cautious of autumn bugs if one is vulnerable and take sensible measures, but these folk seem scared of their own shadows. They are so scared of dying they’ve forgotten how to live first. And why do they think anyone is interested in reading whether they wore masks or not?

183301 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 12, #281 of 2450 🔗

Chuck them. Get some real friends. Choose human beings this time.

183313 ▶▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to annie, 5, #282 of 2450 🔗

They were nice people before all this. I’m rarely visiting the blog now.

183379 ▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 11, #283 of 2450 🔗

It really is incredible how brainwashed some are. I rang an acquaintance in Victoria this arvo. She said she is absolutely terrified of getting this virus. I tried to reassure her that her chances of recovery if she got it were well over 90 odd per cent but she wouldn’t have it. I just felt so sad for her. Fed up with restrictions but completely accepting of it. Andrews has got them like putty in his hand.

183551 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Girl down Under, 2, #284 of 2450 🔗

It would be good to understand if there is a relationship between more savage the lockdown and fear of ‘virus’. Does one breed the other or does a brutal lockdown give people chance to see the fraud?

183763 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, 3, #285 of 2450 🔗

I’ve concluded that some people think the more severe the lockdown measures the worse Covid must be.

184568 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to karenovirus, 1, #286 of 2450 🔗

It’s a perfectly logical conclusion if you don’t have access to alternative evidence.
That’s why face nappies were mandated when the epidemic was over. It confirmed there was something “out there” to fear.

183293 CivilianNotCovidian, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 121, #287 of 2450 🔗

Yesterday I was harassed by a policeman on a train and I’m
petrified. I felt bullied and threatened. I’m traumatised. I was sitting on a train without a mask because I am exempt. A man behind me (with seats, literally between us) asked me to move because I wasn’t wearing a mask. I said I was comfortable where I was and he could move if he wanted to. He pressed me again and again so I got angry and told him to move if he wanted to but I was staying put. He said I was “shouting and spreading it” – his exact words. He walked off down the carriage. A few minutes later, FOUR police officers entered the carriage. They looked very threatening in their thick black masks. I was terrified. I’m female and not physically strong. A very tall me officer stood over me and asked why I wasn’t wearing a mask. I said I was legally exempt. He asked me why I was exempt. I told him that, legally I didn’t have to explain. He said, “But I’m asking you why.” I said I wasn’t legally obliged to tell him. He asked again, raising his voice, which still sounded very muffled behind his mask. “I am asking you WHY you are not wearing a mask.” At this point I started crying uncontrollably and reached for my lanyard and put it on. He backed off and said to the man who’d fetched him, “Sorry I can’t fine her, I’d like to but the law says if she says she’s exempt, I can’t.

I cannot use trains in my own country again. I love trains. I can no longer travel on them. I cannot rely on the protection of my police force. I fear the police. I am distraught. What has happened? How did we become this?

183297 ▶▶ annie, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 35, #288 of 2450 🔗

Oh poor you. That is absolutely horrible.
I salute your courage.
We became this because we have a population of cowardly zombies governed by murderous cretins.
Wair until they are hanged, then we’ll all hire a sceptics’ train and celebrate together.

183298 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 26, #289 of 2450 🔗

Shocking! So much for impartial policing. Is your MP worth contacting? Citizens’ Advice? Simon Dolan?

Does anyone here have access to a sceptic lawyer who can advise this lady?

183304 ▶▶ FiFiTrixabelle, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 23, #290 of 2450 🔗

I’m so sorry to read this. What an awful experience for you. No wonder you’ve been left distraught.
Not sure what to advise, aside to say you’ve got friends and supporters here. You did nothing wrong. Don’t let the bas***do get you down.

183305 ▶▶ CivilianNotCovidian, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 46, #291 of 2450 🔗

Thank you. I wanted to post this story here because I needed support. It’s the one place I’ve come to trust for common sense and civility. I’m a shy person to some extent. I’m also compassionate. I don’t like any derogatory terms for people who have been subjected to intense mind control, so all of the hatred towards them jars with me. Although I was angry with the passenger trying to make me move, I feel more sorry for him than anything. He’s been manipulated and mind controlled into believing my maskless face is a threat to his life. The terrifying experience was that a policeman – without cause – became aggressive and frightening. And expressed his desire to fine a person for not wearing a mask. That made me feel unsafe.

183317 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 32, #292 of 2450 🔗

You’re very forgiving.
I’d say the complainer was a spiteful bully and the policemen were thugs.

183897 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to annie, 11, #293 of 2450 🔗

Very hard to argue with that. This policeman needs disciplinary proceedings to be brought against him. Always make these thugs identify themselves.

184304 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to annie, 3, #294 of 2450 🔗

Insecurity takes many forms.

183321 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 28, #295 of 2450 🔗

One more suggestion for you: when you’ve recovered from this inexcusable bullying, you could try to let anger take over and investigate: was it the British Transport Police? If so, why were four of them called to intimidate a lone passenger on the train?

If you can confirm the train operator involved, the route and the journey time, you should be able to mount a formal complaint .

This would be worth your while,if you can face it.

Finally, Luke Gittos is a well known lawyer who might be able to advise you.

http://freedomlawclinic.org/get-involved-with-flc

183572 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 18, #296 of 2450 🔗

Shocking, but not surprising, sadly. Sorry this happened, CNC. I’m sure you already know this, but the law is absolutely on your side. There is no mention AT ALL in the legislation of ANYONE being able to ask for explanation or proof of exemption.

Government guidance says exactly the opposite. And that’s before we get to the Equalities Act (if there is a disability).

Police etc. can only act against people refusing. No doubt the officer wanted to push you to admit you were refusing. He was out of order trying to intimidate you, as by his own admission, there was no offence.

Definitely report him.

183754 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sam Vimes, 11, #297 of 2450 🔗

Yep, formal complaint. Write everything down while it is still clear. I hope you travel by train again when recovered, if so phone on ‘record’ is always useful.

R Tilbrook is another lawyer shown on here.

183926 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to JohnB, 6, #298 of 2450 🔗

Write to the train company and ask them what they are going to do about it.

183913 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Sam Vimes, 5, #299 of 2450 🔗

Yes indeed. Always state clearly that you are medically exempt and leave it at that, as they are not entitled to further information. They are then cornered and should be the subject of formal complaint made against them, if they pursue the matter further.

183613 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 11, #300 of 2450 🔗

We have all been subjected to the same manipulation and mind control but we are not all harassing our fellow human beings as a result. People are responsible for their own actions even when so called authorities are giving them orders and trying to make them take part in perpetrating their crimes against humanity.

183825 ▶▶▶▶ CivilianNotCovidian, replying to Saved To Death, 11, #301 of 2450 🔗

“Saved to death” (your name is genius) – that is such a profound point! Why am I enabling that passenger’s behaviour? You are absolutely right. We live in a total information meritocracy… he has the same access to all the information I researched to lead me to conclude that I am not a serious threat to anyone’s life by being exempt from wearing a face covering and going about my business. (If I thought I posed a huge risk to the lives of other people, I wouldn’t leave the house – THAT is how caring I am – yet I’m being framed as a bad person here. It makes no sense!

183834 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 3, #302 of 2450 🔗

Did you have anyway of identifying the uniformed zombie. In any event make a complaint. I assume it was British Transport Police and they need to be hauled over the coals for this act of bullying and the offending zombie be disciplined or sacked.

184795 ▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Rowan, 1, #303 of 2450 🔗

British Transport Police have “form” for this. They are evil. CNC needs to try to pluck up the courage to report this thug and take it all the way (although I will completely understand if she doesn’t feel able to do so.

183306 ▶▶ Coronamoana, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 16, #304 of 2450 🔗

That’s disgusting. I haven’t experienced any confrontation but rarely go anywhere as I dread it happening. They seem intent on turning normal human behaviour into a criminal activity. I no longer have any trust in authority. Well done for standing your ground and I’m sorry at how it has upset you. I can’t answer your last two questions. Nothing makes sense.

183307 ▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 6, #305 of 2450 🔗

That’s dreadful, I’m so sorry.

183316 ▶▶ PatrickF, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 20, #306 of 2450 🔗

That’s a disgusting experience. For the next person who challenges you, ask if they are aware of The Equality Act 2010. You are protected by it and do not have to prove your exemption. They, on the other hand maybe guilty of an act of disability discrimination.
My two pennies. You were also the victim of a hate crime.

183320 ▶▶▶ CivilianNotCovidian, replying to PatrickF, 21, #307 of 2450 🔗

I had armed myself with all this information. I thought I would quote the Equalities Act. I had practiced saying it before travelling. But when you are faced with a tall black-masked policeman, you lose all your words. I thought I might have to defend myself against ignorant members of the public but not the police!

183328 ▶▶▶▶ Llamasaurus Rex, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 4, #308 of 2450 🔗

Solidarity CNC.

183331 ▶▶▶▶ PatrickF, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 38, #309 of 2450 🔗

I had a similar confrontation with a retired Doctor in a supermarket queue last week. She asked why I wasn’t wearing a mask. I showed her my lanyard. Silence, until I said “it’s non of your business. Are you a Doctor, who can judge my health, without an examination?.”
“I’m a retired doctor.”
“Who, somehow has read my medical records!”
Silence.
“As a retired Doctor, you can tell me how many cases, deaths there are in the UK and explain the false positive rate.”
Silence.
She then queue jumped me!

183760 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to PatrickF, 7, #310 of 2450 🔗

Hopefully you (accidentally) tripped her up as she went past ?

183715 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 6, #311 of 2450 🔗

You acted very well indeed.
And you did a very good deed by posting this here.
It will open a few more eyes and provides guidance and certainty to all exempt people.
Personally and maybe even by showing a printout to the next Stasi officer trying to intimidate an exempt person.

183771 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 5, #312 of 2450 🔗

You did very well standing up for yourself and staying calm, first with the bully and then the police.
Of course you cried. Absolutely natural.
Please try to make a complaint, even it just achieves that you have done so, but it will make you feel you have taken the power back and it has been registered.

183829 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 4, #313 of 2450 🔗

Carry a printout of the laws on exemption and disability discrimination – I use the one from Law or Fiction. Even if you find yourself unable to say what you want to, you can produce the printout.

184440 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to PatrickF, 1, #314 of 2450 🔗

Your two pennies add up nicely.

183319 ▶▶ Adam, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 12, #315 of 2450 🔗

Sorry to hear this. Bit late now, but I would have advised taking his name and i.d. (which I believe they are legally obliged to give you if asked) and written a strongly worded letter to the chief constable.

183365 ▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 10, #316 of 2450 🔗

That’s just terrible. Four uniformed bullies picking on a woman like that. They should be ashamed of themselves. Their mothers would be!

183403 ▶▶ mjr, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 9, #317 of 2450 🔗

it is a pity that you did not record the conversation or at least get the number of policeman involved.. However understandable under the circumstances as the incident was obviously very traumatic

These will have been British Transport Police who have history on here (sounds very much like the Liverpool incident a few months back)

Regardless of this, you still have the details of which train you were on and therefore the BTP plod will be identifiable.

Others have provided contact info already. I would suggest that you publicise this as much as possible. Phone your MP, contact local press, BTP themselves (as plod clearly does not know the rules around exemptions or is ignoring them). Also Talk Radio

183432 ▶▶ nottingham69, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 17, #318 of 2450 🔗

Don’t worry about police the key factor is keep calm, they are looking to escalate in a mask argument, so they can act. If you keep calm and refer to the exemption guidance they can do nothing. Same if you have friends and relatives in your house and a neighbour has snitched, don’t let them in, they have no power to go in with no suspected crime.

183442 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 11, #319 of 2450 🔗

That’s horrible. I would suggest that you file a complaint against the train company and the police. The way the police spoke to you was demeaning and you would be well within your rights to say that you felt bullied and threatened.

Also write to your MP, Disability Rights UK and anti-bullying charities as well as publicise your incident on media – contact Simon Dolan and Anna Brees for a start.

I also have been bullied for not wearing a mask and I feel for you. Bullies should be called out and dealt with the full force of the law.

183500 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 8, #320 of 2450 🔗

God that makes me so feckin angry ! Bloody coward of a man? If you were a 6 ft bloke he’d have tutted maybe but said nothing plus bloody coward police.Bullying of the physically smaller person, disgusting – I would complain long and loud to my mp, the police and the train company.

183545 ▶▶ Felice, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 17, #321 of 2450 🔗

I’ve yet to be challenged for not wearing a mask, but the fear of it happening is taking its toll on my mental health. I suspect that exempt people are being forced to wear their lanyard, whether they like it or not. I took a train on Sunday, no sign of a conductor, in fact she said that if anyone needed her she could be found in a certain carriage. Now I know why she says that, so that if someone wants to complain about us maskless, they know where to find her.
We’re going to have to wear our lanyards with pride, rather than thinking of them as yellow stars. Maybe we need to think of them as being a sign of resistance.

183681 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Felice, 10, #322 of 2450 🔗

This is what I do now; having concealed it for many weeks, now that the wretched gags are worn in cars and in the open air, I wear it openly so it can be seen by all.

My take on this is that if we showed the same solidarity and defiance as the Danes did in WW2-when they all adopted the yellow star-we could break down this imposition. from below.

I now use the term Cosmetic Compliance and Confinement as it seems to me and most of us here that this is social control creep, imposed by a weakened lacklustre administration beholden to an array of Dr Strangeloves-2020’s eminences grises.

183826 ▶▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to wendyk, 9, #323 of 2450 🔗

I have worn my lanyard and badge since the start (and the 2 community officers in the train in late July didn’t like it but had to accept it and moved on when I waved it at them). Someone in Sainsburys at the weekend without a mask or badge/lanyard came up to me and asked where I had got it as he said ‘lots of people are asking me why I’m not wearing a mask’. In a less public spot I found him again and explained and pointed to the site. One more sceptic I thought good news.

183862 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Keen Cook, 2, #324 of 2450 🔗

Good for you! Another convert.

184973 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to wendyk, 3, #325 of 2450 🔗

That’s a good idea. I mostly wear them on public transport after that run in with that Karen in the underground but perhaps I should also start wearing them in the shops especially after being bullied in M&S.

In addition having the lanyard visible could inspire those who shouldn’t be wearing the muzzles to ditch them and claim exemption too.

183552 ▶▶ Shep, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 3, #326 of 2450 🔗

always video any interactions with ‘authorities ‘

183635 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 2, #327 of 2450 🔗

Put in an official complaint.

183642 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 14, #328 of 2450 🔗

This may help you next time it happens, advice for foreign students:

https://www.studyinternational.com/news/know-your-rights-what-to-do-if-youre-stopped-by-uk-police/

Am I obliged to give them information?
In the UK, the police are allowed to stop and question you at any time.
They might ask you:
What your name is
Why you are in the area
What you are doing/where you are going
However, you are not obliged to answer these questions and cannot be charged for not doing so. You can walk away or say ‘I am using my right to remain silent’, just make sure you do so in a calm and polite manner. Without further evidence to suspect criminal activity, you are free to continue your day as usual.

They can then be arseholes and arrest you but say “I want to duty solicitor” and nothing else.

Then put in a big complaint at the first opportunity.

183648 ▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 5, #329 of 2450 🔗

The way the police dress at the moment very much reminds me of the “Civil Enforcement” characters of “The Combine” in the game Half-Life.

An alternative is to learn a bit of British Sign Language. Sign that you are deaf and that he must remove his mask if he wants to communicate with you so you can lip read.

184137 ▶▶▶ Ed Turnbull, replying to The Filthy Engineer, 3, #330 of 2450 🔗

I’ve been saying since the start of this nightmare, when Dr Breen (our fat Old Etonian controller) placed us under house arrest, that we were now living in City 17. Well, I’ve polished my crowbar, and my HEV suit and gravity gun are charging…

183659 ▶▶ TJN, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 7, #331 of 2450 🔗

What a horrible experience. But I think you showed proper courage and handled it very well. You’re the only person in this story to come out of it with any credit. Times will change, and people like that will deserve to hang their heads in shame, and people like you walk tall.

Meanwhile, having gone through this you need not fear having to travel on a train again – you can be confident how to handle this now.

183675 ▶▶ Templeton, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 18, #332 of 2450 🔗

“Id like to fine her but I cant…”
Fucking disgraceful

Im so sorry you had to go through this.

183679 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 8, #333 of 2450 🔗

If he’s a BTP then he should have had a number.

Then have him up for disability discrimination.

183774 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Lucan Grey, 4, #334 of 2450 🔗

Probably malfeasance in public office.

183696 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 18, #335 of 2450 🔗

Same in Germany.
And we need medical certificates.
And those medical certificates are now often ignored by businesses.
And the police is actually trying to confiscate them, then hands them to a prosecuter who is then prosecuting the doctor!
The doctors are advised/blackmailed by the head doctors/NHS eq. heads to refrain from issuing medical certificates granting exemption.
The hippocratical oath and the doctor/patient relationship and secrecy law have been voided.

We’re living in totalitarian hygiene states.
And the mask is their Gessler’s hat/Hitler salute.

184463 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Jay Berger, #336 of 2450 🔗

The hypocritical oath now much more appropriate.

183722 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 19, #337 of 2450 🔗

What a fucking nightmare. I hate cops in masks. I hate security goons in masks, I hate to see people in masks. This is a total dystopia.

Masks are just pure evil.

183802 ▶▶ rose, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 3, #338 of 2450 🔗

We became like this this because of the press, who have brainwashed the general (mindless) public

184465 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to rose, 1, #339 of 2450 🔗

No, we became like this because of Boris Johnson.

184089 ▶▶ Ed Turnbull, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 1, #340 of 2450 🔗

This is utterly unacceptable. I hope you got their badge numbers. Make an official complaint, do not let these bastards get away with this, they should be slung out of the force and have their pension rights revoked. The laworfiction.org site has some good advice in how to proceed in these cases.

184300 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 1, #341 of 2450 🔗

BASTARDS.

185292 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, #342 of 2450 🔗

Complain to British Transport Police.

183300 Coronamoana, replying to Coronamoana, 24, #343 of 2450 🔗

I gave the Tiers of a Clown a miss last night but my 26 year old daughter messaged me around 7pm yesterday saying she was exhausted and had gone to bed because ‘Boris has come on and I thought it was time to call it a day’. I wish he’d call it a day. (Sadly, she’s waiting to hear what her redundancy package will be.)

It strikes me as strange that there is no message of hope from him and no pulling people together. Rather, the government are threatening, coercing, and bullying the public into submission, refusing to present evidence and anticipated outcomes. This is quite frankly wrong and needs to stop.

On another note, a client of mine had the sniffles last Monday and thought she had to ‘do the right thing and get a test because if I don’t do the right thing, I can’t expect others to do the right thing‘ (quite how it’s the right thing, I don’t know). She was expecting the results last Tuesday but when I spoke to her last night, they still hadn’t come through. Her children are furious as they love school and have now been off for over a week. They’ll go back just in time to break up for half term. By the way, when I spoke to her last Wednesday she was feeling better!

When will this madness end? I range from raging anger to abject despair, and seem to have developed Tourette’s Syndrome. I just crave some good news.

183310 ▶▶ annie, replying to Coronamoana, 4, #344 of 2450 🔗

You mean that if you go for a test, you and all your family are banged up before you get the results?

183408 ▶▶▶ Coronamoana, replying to annie, 2, #345 of 2450 🔗

Yes, if you have symptoms. Correct me if I’m wrong as, to be honest, despite doing lots of reading, I am slightly confused.

183413 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Coronamoana, 2, #346 of 2450 🔗

Yes. And if you don’t have symptoms, you’re not supposed to be tested, ergo, if you’ve been tested you’re supposed to self isolate.

183302 2 pence, 4, #347 of 2450 🔗

Brilliant.

“The whole thing stinks … it`s all bollox !”

https://twitter.com/ZNeveri/status/1315741255914135552

183308 PatrickF, replying to PatrickF, 11, #348 of 2450 🔗

North of England. You have a choice. Accept your lockdown, or take back your towns and cities and protest.
End the lockdown!

183429 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to PatrickF, 3, #349 of 2450 🔗

I think that they really want option 3, accept the lockdown and get paid free money to stay at home.

183326 Mike May, 1, #350 of 2450 🔗

Boris resents being in the middle of the pandemic furore and blames the former Red Wall constituencies for putting him there, hence his hardness towards the North.

183335 ConstantBees, replying to ConstantBees, 5, #351 of 2450 🔗

Listening to the latest Covid Plan B from NZ this morning. One of the speakers highlighted this article: https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/11-10-2020/we-are-not-a-nation-of-dissenters-but-a-nation-of-conformists/

While the main focus is NZ, the author also references the UK and other countries.

Interesting quote:

This year has illustrated for me that we are not a nation of dissenters, we are a nation of conformists. Margaret Thatcher once said that “when people have freedom to choose, they choose freedom”. Well, apparently not in New Zealand.

183343 ▶▶ CGL, replying to ConstantBees, 8, #352 of 2450 🔗

Or the UK either – I lost 1 fb friend overnight about a post that mentioned a Covid Marshall as a Covid Nazi. I don’t know which ‘friend’ it was, but I do know that all of the others agree with them, so I may lose some more today. Que sera sera. It is simply shocking to me that people are completely accepting of the intrusions into their lives – and how can anyone describe the idea of a Covid Marshall as anything but Gestapo like.

183336 matt, replying to matt, 3, #353 of 2450 🔗

In other news, positive test numbers remain flat per CEBM
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/tracking-uk-covid-19-cases/

183357 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to matt, 2, #354 of 2450 🔗

It looks as though the testing limit plateaued. Anecdotally, I know of 2 people who had to be tested last week and are now having to isolate, as they still haven’t received results. One of these has lost me and a few others, another days work this week.

183400 ▶▶▶ Coronamoana, replying to PoshPanic, 1, #355 of 2450 🔗

I know one who’s been waiting a week. Why?

183439 ▶▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Coronamoana, 1, #356 of 2450 🔗

The testing data is here. Not sure how accurate this really is, but it looks as though they’re at capacity.
Moonshot was always sci fi.

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/testing

183337 Steve Fuller, replying to Steve Fuller, 2, #357 of 2450 🔗

Given that the number of new cases is only about 25% of the level they predicted! This equates to almost 250,000 fewer “cases” over the course of his prediction/presentation! Not a small margin of error!

183427 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to Steve Fuller, 2, #358 of 2450 🔗

That’s a tiny margin of error, I can do way better than that

183597 ▶▶▶ Steve Fuller, replying to Recusant, 1, #359 of 2450 🔗

Look forward to it 🙂

183344 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 6, #360 of 2450 🔗

There has been a wholly excellent ‘heated debate’ on this site regarding the use of a certain word.

Could we have another one regarding the use of the words ‘infections’ and ‘cases’, but particularly cases?

There is no internationally accepted definition of these two words regarding covid 19, and, while cycle thresholds, and indeed PCR tests themselves, vary everywhere, an international definition will continue to be problematic.

Instead of ‘infections’ or ‘cases’, why not just use the word ‘(PCR test) positives’ for clarity, except where clinical diagnosis confirmed by a viral culture reference test has taken place?

183351 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Tim Bidie, 2, #361 of 2450 🔗

I concentrate a lot of my energy on Daily Mail comments and have used the “positive tests aren’t cases” info quite a bit. Thanks for the additional language “except where clinical diagnosis confirmed by viral culture reference tests has taken place”.

183461 ▶▶ annie, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #362 of 2450 🔗

Very well said.

183352 tonys, 3, #363 of 2450 🔗

Like the ‘double secret probation’ . ‘Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life Boris’.

183355 alw, replying to alw, 13, #364 of 2450 🔗

“ The authorities need to finally stop pretending that PCR testing is suitable for mass surveillance purposes…. PCR testing for mass surveillance needs to be stopped asap without further delay”. …Sabina Walker Master Applied Science (Neuroscience)”.

183360 ▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to alw, 2, #365 of 2450 🔗

Link!

183394 ▶▶▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to mjr, 1, #367 of 2450 🔗

Cheers!

183386 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to alw, 3, #368 of 2450 🔗

I agree and have written to my MP and the Parliamentary Health Committee about testing but have been fobbed off by both. How do we take any further action to challenge this testing process?

183361 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 13, #369 of 2450 🔗

I thought Boris looked fatter and unhealthier than ever at the podium yesterday. Pasty faced (needs to get out into the sun without a mask). His legs are like two huge tree trunks.

183382 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Gillian, 13, #370 of 2450 🔗

Although I find Donald Trump embarrassing and his behaviour crass nonetheless I prefer his rebound from covid to the miserable craven whimpering approach of Boris Johnson ( Wee, sleekit, cowrin, tim’rous beastie, O, what a panic’s in thy breastie!). He used to cover up his work-shy laziness with his brash confident presentations but he has lost all that and is now just a quivering jelly.

183420 ▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to Steve Martindale, 6, #371 of 2450 🔗

I have always found Trump to be a gormless creep, but his life and vitality and good sense following his dose of Covid has been a joy to watch.

183707 ▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Recusant, 2, #372 of 2450 🔗

Apart from the fact that most politicians mask their supreme ignorance in nonsensical verbiage, I’m not sure they are any less gormless than Trump.

Trump’s just clearer with his statements so it’s more obvious when he’s in error.

183399 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Gillian, 10, #373 of 2450 🔗

There was an article about him losing his hair yesterday in the mail, strands all over his shoulders – some people genuinely tried to link it to a symptom of ‘long Covid’. Nah, he’s probably just very stressed due to being out of his depth, not to mention a majority of men go bald when they get older…! Nothing to see here, move along…

183733 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Poppy, #374 of 2450 🔗

Boris has a nervous tendancy to “ruffle” his hair. I bet he is doing this all the time and is actually literally pulling his hair out. Good. Hope he give himself alloprecia.

183525 ▶▶ PatrickF, replying to Gillian, 4, #375 of 2450 🔗

An obese man telling the UK how to look after our health? That’s rich!

185006 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to PatrickF, 1, #376 of 2450 🔗

What happened to the anti-obesity campaign? Last I saw Alison Tedstone and Susan Jebb were in charge. Yes the same people who presided over the “obesity epidemic”.

Here’s a clue – farmers feed grains and skim milk to pigs to fatten them. Dieticians feed grains and skim milk to people to make them slim. You can see why it doesn’t work.

183362 THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 4, #377 of 2450 🔗

Cheers for the update Tobes. We thought retiring the ‘Bedwetters’ name was about spreading our message wider, winning people over, converting them. We cannot see any point in retiring this name in favour of one that is just as offensive and devisive.

Could we not just call them ‘Poor Sods Scared Shitless by the MSM’ (not so catchy but you get the idea!)

In other news we recorded our Vaccine episode last night then made plans for the Rugby on Saturday. Trying to stay ‘Normal’ at the ‘Real Normal’

https://therealnormalpodcast.buzzsprout.com/

183366 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 2, #378 of 2450 🔗

I call them ‘the sponges/gullibles/sheep’ because if it wasnt covid it would be something else, from the people I know, they really are a type that will soak up any old nonsense.

183367 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 6, #379 of 2450 🔗

I tend to find that some people (looking at my family and friends) are genuinely fearful. Those that get interested and look at the data tend to become sceptical. But scepticism already exists in a lot of people. I think initial fearfulness or scepticism is just an inbuilt personality trait.

183372 ▶▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to steve_w, 1, #380 of 2450 🔗

Exactly. Telling people whats going on tends to calm them down a bit.

183385 ▶▶▶▶ Mike, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 1, #381 of 2450 🔗

Only if they are receptive to it. Otherwise the blinkers go on and the fingers are placed firmly in the ears. It seems that to contemplate an alternative narrative for many people is more scary than the virus…

183384 ▶▶ mjr, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 1, #382 of 2450 🔗

I like the idea of calling them “Stills” as in they are still bedwetters.

183587 ▶▶▶ Alan P, replying to mjr, 2, #383 of 2450 🔗

Taking the “poor sods scared shitless by MSM” trope, I’d abbreviate it to “possums” with a tip to dame Edna Everidge!

A small frightened marsupial seems to describe the people formerly referred to as bedwetters.

184487 ▶▶ DomW, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, #384 of 2450 🔗

You could use an acronym. I came up with ‘vop’ recently. Stands for

Victim
Of
Propaganda

Not so far away from your suggestion, just in acronym form and I’m sure better ones exist

183364 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 7, #385 of 2450 🔗

For the first lockdown I was under the impression that SAGE hadn’t recommended it and it was a Boris panic move that just mirrored what other countries were doing.

Now it appears he is fighting back against SAGE who recommended a total lockdown on Sept 21st – https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54514387

Maybe when the second ‘ripple’ peters out then he can get some new advisors. The Vallance graph was clearly a prediction about what happens if we don’t lockdown – and we haven’t. Anything less than 50,000 ‘cases’ per day by the 15th October is proof (again if any were needed) that the modelling is way out.

183371 ▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to steve_w, #386 of 2450 🔗

It’s all to do the the Biosecurity Lot…Sage is old hat.

183389 ▶▶ matt, replying to steve_w, 1, #387 of 2450 🔗

“Maybe when the second ‘ripple’ peters out then he can get some new advisors”

Insofar as I think there currently is any kind of plan, that I think is the plan.

183395 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to matt, 2, #388 of 2450 🔗

I did think that the presentation of the Vallance graph looked like they had been pushed on stage and told to ‘put your money where your mouth is’. When it fails, it discredits SAGE

183401 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to steve_w, 4, #389 of 2450 🔗

I think that’s very possible. Problem is, Johnson has now said “we can’t just let the virus rip” so many times that it’s hard to see how he can now turn around and say “my new scientific advisors are of the opinion that we should just let the virus rip.”

Mind you, if any politician can get away with spouting one load of stupid bollocks today and then a completely opposite load of stupid bollocks tomorrow, it’s Johnson.

183405 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to matt, 3, #390 of 2450 🔗

He has to go, and be replaced by someone almost as bad who has been slightly less vocal in the bollocks, who can over a period of months drift away from the nonsense and hope no-one notices

183410 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Julian, 4, #391 of 2450 🔗

I don’t see how he can survive it. But I struggle to think of any credible successor.

183421 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Julian, 4, #392 of 2450 🔗

he has to go I think. unless he makes a mighty sweden style stand and is proved right. we really need someone who was quietly sceptical from the start

183418 ▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to matt, 2, #393 of 2450 🔗

true. but he can also say – we were promised it would rip if we dont do x,y,z and it hasn’t.

I think the second wave is just ‘tidying up’ the 20% or so that the first lockdown protected. I think this is why Sweden doesn’t have a second peak. This peak will be 1/5th of the original and will naturally fall. The third peak will be a fifth of that etc.

The second ‘surge’ seems to have plateaud. the KCL covid tracking app has gone from 20,000 infections per day to 24,000 a week later

183526 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to matt, 7, #394 of 2450 🔗

“As you know I have, erm, wibble, you know, always followed The Science, wibble, cough, erm, you know, THE Science, throughout. Wiff-woff. And, er, erm, cough cough, wibble wibble, THE Science has just changed, which you know, erm, will stop Persephone from having to return to Hades ever again, cough cough. Which means we have defeated Winter. Cough, wibble wibble. Or got it under control at least. Somewhat. Biffy bashy.

“Erm, what I mean to say is that, you know, we can switch all the traffic lights on Covid wibble wobble to GREEN, with immediate effect. We, erm, cough cough, don’t know what that means yet, but it is THE Science. And we’re following it. Wibble.”

183368 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 8, #395 of 2450 🔗

I noticed that Jonathan Van Tam introduced yet another new word into the ever-expanding Covid dictionary yesterday; that of “baked-in”. The PTB have baked-in more hospitalisations and deaths as a result of finding increased numbers of positive tests.

From the graphs which I see, even though the number of test positives has been “soaring” since August, the number of deaths doesn’t seem to have “soared” over the same period of time.

As a result of the Great British Bake-in, the government has introduced new restrictions on some parts of the country, notably the north.

Perhaps a better description of these measures would be “half-baked”

183376 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Margaret, 3, #396 of 2450 🔗

also ‘let rip’ is one they seem to get in as many times as possible, they’ve all used it.

183396 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Margaret, 2, #397 of 2450 🔗

Baked-in bollocks more like.

183459 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Poppy, 3, #398 of 2450 🔗

Baked on, like the sticky dirt you can’t get off your roasting tin.

183515 ▶▶ PatrickF, replying to Margaret, 2, #399 of 2450 🔗

Bake off, Van Damn!

183793 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Margaret, #400 of 2450 🔗

I immediately hated that expression. How stupid it is.

183373 TJN, replying to TJN, 13, #401 of 2450 🔗

Piece by the NHS doctor noted in today’s posting:

On the face of it, patients admitted since September 1st seem to be less ill, require less medical support and have a much lower death rate than those admitted in the period up to 31st of August.

One interpretation might be that the bar for covid hospital admission has been lowered, possibly dramatically, and that this explains the ‘disturbing-ominous-worrying’ rise in hospital admissions.

Any way this shower can find to manipulate the data, they’ll sink to it.

183374 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to TJN, 6, #402 of 2450 🔗

Was thinking the same. I just keep thinking about my brother. He tested positive and the first thing I said was how many cycles on PCR?

Which then lead to the fact that cycles do not appear on the test record. When they do a blood test you get lots of details even for the basic ones, yet no mention of the basic process for PCR?

It fucking stinks.

183640 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to mhcp, 2, #403 of 2450 🔗

cycles do not appear on the test record

Really?? I’d have thought that logging the number of cycles against each test result was just standard practice.

The data on covid has been a mess since the outset. With a very tiny fraction of the money this shower have spent on other measures (e.g. T&T) they could have employed people to sort this data out and standardise it. That they haven’t proves that they are uninterested in proper data.

Why oh why might that be??

As you say, it fucking stinks.

183377 ▶▶ mjr, replying to TJN, 8, #404 of 2450 🔗

or that everyone admitted to hospital for any reason is being routinely tested and those patients whose test shows a positive are being counted as covid patients regardless of the reason for admissions
so for example

daily admissions – 1000
Tests – 1000
Positive tests – 200 (whatever positive actually means!!)
“covid” admissions – 200
People ill from covid – fuck knows

183388 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to mjr, 4, #405 of 2450 🔗

Anecdotally I believe this to be the case but would love to find some official information to confirm

An FOI request to the relevant body – whoever they are?

It’s currently being used as a key piece of evidence by the govt so would be good to clarify

From here: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/about-data#england-1

“Daily and cumulative numbers of patients admitted to hospital Numbers of patients admitted to hospital with COVID-19 on or up to the reporting date.
Data are not reported by each nation every day and Scotland’s data are only published weekly. The definitions are not consistent between the four nations (see below).
England England data include people admitted to hospital who tested positive for COVID-19 in the 14 days prior to admission, and those who tested positive in hospital after admission .”

So these are not “Covid patients” at all, and the figures being used will simply reflect the proportion of false positives in the tests being used, and the general level of virus prevalance in the population, and the level of overall hospital admissions = meaningless as a measure of any notional extra burden imposed by covid patients.

Tell your friends.

183456 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to mjr, 5, #406 of 2450 🔗

In Wales, they are counted as Covid if its presence is only suspected.

183509 ▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to mjr, 2, #407 of 2450 🔗

Everybody is tested for day case & full admission ie 1 night or more (elective) For these you are tested before admission. If you test positive you will not be admitted for either. Not sure how these would be recorded, seems like a grey area! In an emergency you have to be admitted anyway and then you are tested. Some interesting facts late on yesterday’s page by swedenborg. For instance if you had tested everyone last year you would always have had x amount of Covid deaths due to the false positive factor.

183557 ▶▶ Felice, replying to TJN, 4, #408 of 2450 🔗

Don’t you remember that back in April, if you were ill, you were told to ring 111, who told you only to call an ambulance/go to hospital if your lips were blue, ie you were in a very serious state.

183694 ▶▶ Mayo, replying to TJN, 2, #409 of 2450 🔗

One interpretation might be that the bar for covid hospital admission has been lowered

Another might be that, in the NH, our immune systems are more robust thanks to more exposure to sunshine.

183885 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Mayo, 2, #410 of 2450 🔗

Yes, that may well be a factor.

Which reminds me of all those beautiful sunny weeks last spring when we were all ordered to stay inside (to ‘save lives’). I ignored it of course, and attempted to persuade everyone around me to do so. UV is good for you.

183761 ▶▶ djaustin, replying to TJN, 2, #411 of 2450 🔗

They are being managed better with six months of acquired medical knowledge. Although in the report 50% of the patients are still receiving medical care, so it’s a biased sample of those who recovered in 28 days vs. everyone up to 31/AUG/20. Probably a little early to make an absolute call, but the effect on overall survival curves is impressive.

Most striking difference is that Advanced respiratory support has fallen from 72% to 25%

183905 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to djaustin, 1, #412 of 2450 🔗

Yes, as with Mayo’s UV hypothesis, better case management may well be a factor. But if so, this should be placed in the wider perspective: we don’t need a repeat now of the panic of last spring. Better case management equals lower IFRs/CFRs, and thus further undermines the argument for stringent measures.

But whatever the explanation – lower bar on admissions/UV/better case management/less serious viral strain/increased acquired part immunity – someone in government ought to be trying to get to the bottom of it. And pound-to-a-pinch-of-shit they’re not. Because they are incompetent? Or simply don’t want to know?

183378 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 7, #413 of 2450 🔗

The latest police tactic.

“Engage, explain, encourage, and if that fails we are going to beat you within an inch of your life”

183481 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Cecil B, 3, #414 of 2450 🔗

Coerce,control,confine.

183380 Dan Clarke, 5, #415 of 2450 🔗

The government, Sage Cartel, they all need to leave us alone for a few days, possibly more

183383 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 9, #416 of 2450 🔗

The reason why he won’t lockdown London is because every time the Met go to Brixton they get the shit kicked out of them

183577 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Cecil B, 2, #417 of 2450 🔗

I hear that in order to level the playing field, Dick is negotiating to buy some state of the art hypersonic weapons with Moscow.

183387 sky_trees, replying to sky_trees, 11, #418 of 2450 🔗

That’s a fantastic interview with Charles Walker. Love the spluttering of the interviewer (to be fair, that’s the default state of most MSM interviewers, spluttering away and not letting people finish a sentence).

Government can’t abolish death; fact is if you’re 80 or 90 you’re probably going to die in your 80s or 90s.

A lot of lockdown feels like an extension of Corbynism. Free money for everyone, but do as Mummy says, while big government outlaws death. (instituted by public sector people on huge salaries and secure pensions).

183415 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to sky_trees, 8, #419 of 2450 🔗

In fairness to Evan Davies I don’t think that he interrupted Moore, who spoke very well and made excellent points and laid out a position I support 100%. Davies was a bit mind-blown by the idea that old people die, but I think more with the tone that he couldn’t believe someone had said something that everyone knows is true but we are not supposed to say.

183455 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to sky_trees, #420 of 2450 🔗

what time was it roughly?

183398 tonys, replying to tonys, 12, #421 of 2450 🔗

This grim junta of weak politicians and crank scientivists is ever more reminiscent of the perpetrators of the French Revolutionary terror, their name in particular has chilling parallels ‘The Committee for Public Safety’

183479 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to tonys, 4, #422 of 2450 🔗

How right you are; recently I read ‘Fatal Purity’ by Ruth Scurr; a chilling account of Robespierre’s journey from lawyer to fanatical ideologue;utterly convinced by his own rigid and intolerant rectitude.

Look how he ended up!

183499 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to wendyk, 2, #423 of 2450 🔗

Look how all the architects of the Terror ended up.

183518 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #424 of 2450 🔗

Along, of course, with vast numbers of decent people!

183750 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to IanE, #425 of 2450 🔗

True.

183654 ▶▶ annie, replying to tonys, 1, #426 of 2450 🔗

The word they used was ‘salut’. More like’salvation’. Save the nation by killing your opponents and terrorising the sheeples.

183406 l835, 16, #427 of 2450 🔗

The rise in unemployment to 4.5% is NOT due to the virus. It IS entirely due to the Government’s mishandling of the situation by closing businesses who could continue to trade, and failing to adequately support those such as international travel who genuinely couldn’t, due to other countries rules.

183409 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 18, #428 of 2450 🔗

Cancer is the killer of all ages, children and babies die of it. The average age of dying with covid is 82. Its criminal when you think of the money that’s been thrown at this, while cancer research needs it, Cancer patients are denied certain drugs. The astronomical amount of money wasted is mind blowing.

183506 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #429 of 2450 🔗

$18 trillion worldwide and counting. could have done a lot with that

183412 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 9, #430 of 2450 🔗
183414 ConstantBees, 1, #432 of 2450 🔗

Continuing with the Covid Plan B webinar from yesterday, there’s a review of studies of the economic impact by an economist (sorry, couldn’t get his name from the audio). He’s reviewing studies of actual data, not models. Video should start with him being introduced so perhaps someone can catch his name. Clear, dispassionate review of the evidence.

https://youtu.be/9cad4W8FdRQ?t=1619

183416 JudgeMental, replying to JudgeMental, 6, #433 of 2450 🔗

Another vaccine trial halted. This one uses the same adenovirus method as the Oxford/AstraZeneca one that has had issues.

Johnson & Johnson has temporarily halted its Covid-19 vaccine trial because one of its participants had become sick, according to AFP.
“We have temporarily paused further dosing in all our Covid-19 vaccine candidate clinical trials, including the Phase 3 ENSEMBLE trial, due to an unexplained illness in a study participant,” the company said in a statement.
The pause means the enrollment system has been closed for the 60,000-patient clinical trial while the independent patient safety committee is convened.
J&J said that serious adverse events (SAEs), such as accidents or illnesses, are “an expected part of any clinical study, especially large studies.” Company guidelines allow them to pause a study to determine if the SAE was related to the drug in question and whether to resume study.
The US has given J&J about $1.45 billion in funding under Operation Warp Speed.

183424 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to JudgeMental, 4, #434 of 2450 🔗

They could use some old flu vaccine, no one would know and it would make most people feel a lot better.

183450 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Dan Clarke, 7, #435 of 2450 🔗

They could use distilled water, ditto.

183672 ▶▶▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to annie, #436 of 2450 🔗

Saline. Distilled water is quite unpleasant stuff in the body.

183454 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #437 of 2450 🔗

This would probably be the best thing to do, just tell everyone that the flu vaccine included covid protection it will probably be as effective as any future vaccine. The more I read about this virus the more a vaccine seems unlikely, as an upper respiratory tract infection and with the ability to mutate it sounds like it has the ability to get round any vaccine we develop. This virus needs the more innate immunity of T cells B cells vitamins etc.
We should re-direct vaccine money to the development of more effective treatments for the few people who do get serious Covid

183458 ▶▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Steve Martindale, #438 of 2450 🔗

It would be a face saving way out of the madness.

184302 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to JudgeMental, 1, #440 of 2450 🔗

Except that I would not put it past Gates not to ‘spike’ the flu vaccine with something nasty, especially the version given to kids.. He has ‘form’ for adding sterilising agents to vaccines and we know he wants to reduce the world’s population..
Of course this side effect would not show up for quite a number of years…

183522 ▶▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Steve Martindale, 7, #441 of 2450 🔗

One reason why asymptomatic people test positive is that they have been infected a few months ago and their T-cells have obliterated the infected cells scattering fragments of viral RNA into their mucus membranes, where they can sit for months completely harmless, but are picked up by the nose swab.
The video showing positive results for dog and pavement may not be random false positives in that the test did detect viral RNA that collected on the dog’s fur and on the pavement because its debris is in the environment. UV light may destroy the virus, but it doesn’t completely denature the nucleotides.

183425 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to JudgeMental, 8, #442 of 2450 🔗

Operation Warp Speed. These idiots think they’re on the flight deck of the USS Enterprise. No wonder we’re in a mess we are just one big science fiction adventure to them.

183434 ▶▶▶ Nsklent, replying to thinkaboutit, 4, #443 of 2450 🔗

That sums it up perfectly. I am sure Hancock stands in front of the mirror each day rehearsing his posture, body language, imagining he some sort of Hollywood movie hero, instead of Mr plain, boring and deceitful.

183503 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Nsklent, 4, #444 of 2450 🔗

I am convinced that Boris stood in front of the mirror to do his famous ‘serious face’.

I can do it too. There’s a difference between your face being a window on your current emotions, and self-consciously using your face to cynically attempt to convey a message, and I’m afraid Boris was doing the latter.

183571 ▶▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Nsklent, 1, #445 of 2450 🔗

Back in the sixties my Nan used to say, “If you look in the mirror too long, you will see the devil.” How right she was.

183451 ▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to thinkaboutit, 3, #446 of 2450 🔗

This stuff would fry Mr Spock’s brain. Highly illogical.

183453 ▶▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 1, #447 of 2450 🔗

🙂

183490 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 2, #448 of 2450 🔗

You’d get a raised eyebrow and a muttered: “Hmm… Interesting.”

Translation:

“You are utterly stark staring bonkers!”

183528 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #449 of 2450 🔗

Definitely. We could do with him on SAGE.

183570 ▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to thinkaboutit, #450 of 2450 🔗

I think people imagine the tests are like the tricorders used by Dr McCoy and Mr Spock.

183516 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to JudgeMental, 2, #451 of 2450 🔗

Speculation that this is another neurological event, that is, transverse myelitis:

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-johnson-johnson/jj-pauses-covid-19-vaccine-trials-due-to-unexplained-illness-in-participant-idUKKBN26Y02L

The adenovirus platform has also been mentioned elsewhere. If I understand this correctly, although three of the four most advanced vaccines use adenovirus platforms (Moderna’s is the exception), AZ/Oxford Vaccine uses chimpanzee adenovirus whereas J&J and Pfizer both use human adenovirus.

184297 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #452 of 2450 🔗

Succharit Bakhdi says that transverse myelitis is a *very* rare condition otherwise, and it must therefore be the vaccine causing it in these cases..

183531 ▶▶ Basics, replying to JudgeMental, #453 of 2450 🔗

Gates has been talking on msnbc? In past few days. As thought he was a vaccine scientist. In USA only the johnson and johnson vaccine is single hit. The rest are two or more.

183540 ▶▶ Will, replying to JudgeMental, #454 of 2450 🔗

Please can you post a link.

184292 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to JudgeMental, #456 of 2450 🔗

I’d love to know if the people they are using for trials in Africa are experiencing the same side effects… What was the name of the lovely African lady who did some videos about the trials going on over there? I’m wondering if she has done any updates…

183417 Fiat, 6, #457 of 2450 🔗

The harrying of the North

183426 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 3, #458 of 2450 🔗

This isn’t working.

‘As any fule kno’ there is a far more effective way of determining policy:

‘A good example of wisdom in groups is the Naskapi Indians’ use of caribou shoulder bones to locate game . They hold bones over a fire until they crack and then hunt in the directions to which the bones crack. The ritual is effective because the decision is not influenced by the outcomes of past hunts, which means that the stock of animals is not depleted.’

“The Collapse of Sensemaking,” Weick, Administrative Science Quarterly 1993.

183472 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Tim Bidie, 3, #459 of 2450 🔗

Vallance needs a new caribou shoulder bone

183538 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to steve_w, 2, #460 of 2450 🔗

That would be much too scientific for Vallance and Whitty.

183437 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 12, #461 of 2450 🔗

Just been listening to Julia HB on Talk radio, very good but there is only so much covid you can take and I have now switched to music but anyway someone was reported as saying we need to ‘Get on top of this virus’. The list of things we are going to do to this virus is enormous, suppress, beat, defeat etc but it is hard to get anyone to say what all these phrases mean?
To my mind there are three issues with this virus;

  1. Case numbers, which as we know are dodgy PCR test results and the huge numbers we are now seeing are asymptomatic students and so completely irrelevant.
  2. Serious hospital cases; to be fair hospital cases are rising but the NHS now seems more capable of successfully treating Covid and if they move some resources around they are unlikely be overwhelmed
  3. Deaths; as PoshPanic showed with some excellent graphics the other day we certainly had a big Covid death spike in April/early May but since then total deaths have been running steadily at around the norm. Looking at Covid death figures alone is no longer relevant as Covid seems to have become an additional cause of Respiratory Deaths which have always been a significant cause of deaths.

I think the large death spike in April May has really spooked people and we need to convince them as Karol Sikora said on Talk radio this morning, it is all very different now, this is all much more under control but the gloom team in charge of our country do not have the wit or confidence to see this and we all suffer.

183449 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Steve Martindale, 7, #462 of 2450 🔗

How do we know the deaths in April and May were Covid deaths? PCR? Or are we simply assuming it must be because that’s what the narrative says.

A few thousand extra people may have died in April and May but it coincided with the NHS becoming the National Covid Service.

to be fair hospital cases are rising

Again, I am reluctant even to concede that. It fits the government’s narrative, but I refuse to accept that the figures aren’t being manipulated in every way possible to create/fit that narrative.

183460 ▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #463 of 2450 🔗

Because all-cause mortality went through a short, sharp jump to the tune of tens of thousands over a few weeks. The effects of lockdown will take months and years to manifest. Anyone trying to claim COVID did nothing are doing their own argument a great disservice.

183464 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to jb12, 9, #464 of 2450 🔗

As I say, if you take a system that is excellent at keeping old people alive against all the odds, and then you withdraw their treatment simultaneously all at the same moment, you’ll see a ‘spike’ in deaths. It isn’t necessarily Covid that did it – that’s just the narrative.

183608 ▶▶▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Barney McGrew, #465 of 2450 🔗

A spike involving mortally ill old people only being kept alive by medical intervention, but will also stretch over 6 – 7 weeks?

183474 ▶▶▶▶ Van Allen, replying to jb12, 5, #466 of 2450 🔗

Not sure why the suicides, stroke and heart attack victims who were scared to use the nhs and other lockdown deaths will take a while to manifest?

183489 ▶▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Van Allen, 1, #467 of 2450 🔗

It will be a very long time before we get confirmed suicide figures. I believe many people suffer relatively minor heart or stroke episodes which would usually trigger treatment that reduces the chance of a fatal one further down the line.

183596 ▶▶▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Van Allen, 1, #468 of 2450 🔗

The fact that a small % of deaths were outside of the hospitals or care-homes means your point is moot. Lockdown deaths will take more than a few weeks to manifest because most of the illnesses and the effects of poverty don’t afflict a person over few weeks.

183527 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to jb12, 2, #469 of 2450 🔗

But there are explanations for covid having the drastic effects it did in April/ May. One is the scandalous WHO IFR, which came straight from the CCP politburo, of 3.4%. This, coupled with Ferguson’s ludicrous model, predicated on that IFR caused mass panic which precipitated the blind intubation of patients and, scandalously, before that, the sluicing of the hospital decks, into the care homes.

183784 ▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to jb12, 2, #470 of 2450 🔗

Not so!

In Italy when lockdown came in March several interesting things happened.

Firstly, many staff at care homes were from Romania and they decamped practically overnight leaving many care homes almost completely bereft of personnel.

The response of the authorities was to transfer many of those in care homes to hospital.

However, at the same time the schools closed leaving it very difficult for many hospital staff to make earrangements to look after their children, resulting in a shortage of hospital staff.

Remember also we are deaaling with a very elderly and vulnerable population, many of whom are dependent on round the clock care and receiving medication at particular times etc.

That’s how lockdowns can kill a lot of people quite quickly, because vulnerable people are dependent on a very finely-tuned system and can fall victim to the slightest pertubation.

183873 ▶▶▶▶▶ jb12, replying to calchas, 2, #471 of 2450 🔗

Well, i) I should have said the ‘full’ effects of lockdown will take more than a few weeks to manifest. My implication is that some of the deaths caused in that 6-7 week peak can be attributed to a cessation of care, but to act like there was no respiratory illness around that could have caused a spike in deaths is what harms the overall argument.

ii) You cannot compare the UK to Italy since they did different things. As far as I am aware, the hospitals were emptied into the care homes here, not vice-versa; yet still, over half of the deaths from the period occurred in a hospital setting.

iii) Because you have conflated the UK and Italian situations, much of your argument about shortages and child-care are largely irrelevant.

Undoubtedly, COVID is harmful only to the old and/or very sick; that the lockdown is a disproportionate response; and that the lockdown itself has directly caused a level of death that will eventually surpass anything that the current version of the virus ever will. But to say that it has been involved in almost nothing that has occurred since March is false.

184750 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to jb12, #472 of 2450 🔗

I’ve a friend who works in the ICU in the USA. She told me they did have a huge influx of very sick people who needed ventilators or developed sepsis in April and May. Then the cases greatly reduced. My friend is an honest person who tells the truth.

185028 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to jb12, #473 of 2450 🔗

I wish I could remember who it was made a great point at the beginning of this. He said covid works like an amplifier – if you’re going to die soon it makes you die sooner, if you are already ill it makes you more ill. Otherwise it just makes you cough a bit, or not even that.

183469 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Barney McGrew, #474 of 2450 🔗

For weeks 14 to 21 this year the ONS recorded 55,317 registered deaths with Covid 19 on the death certificate. The ONS record the details as listed on the Death Certificate and so it is up to the doctors as to how they decided it was Covid? I have no idea how they do this?

183477 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #475 of 2450 🔗

@jb12’s point below, though, is that this is irrelevant because the all-cause mortality shows us that it must have been Covid wot done it, because there is no explanation other than Covid. But I say there is: the simultaneous withdrawal of treatment from tens of thousands of old people who were probably going to die in the next few months anyway.

183590 ▶▶▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Barney McGrew, #476 of 2450 🔗

That actually wasn’t my point at all, but if it helps you make your own appear more compelling, then fire away.

184760 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to jb12, -1, #477 of 2450 🔗

Always a giveaway when someone has an opportunity to put the record straight, but passes it up in order to appear ‘magnanimous’.

183486 ▶▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Steve Martindale, 7, #478 of 2450 🔗

Simple. The certifying physician in the community didn’t need to know the patient or even see them to certify death providing there was someone present who recognised death. If the patient had had any of the symptoms that could be attributed to SARS-COV-2 then it would go down as covid19. If the death was unexpected and the person hadn’t been seen by a doctor in the preceding 48 hours then a covid19 cause would stop the need for autopsy.

183533 ▶▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to p02099003, 3, #479 of 2450 🔗

Any wannabe Shipmans must have thought all their Christmases had arrived at once…

183559 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Will, #480 of 2450 🔗

Yes indeed. Thank heaven that there are many care homes with conscientious staff (even if they get paid a lousy wage).

183537 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #481 of 2450 🔗

The NHS, under government orders, were discharging Covid patients into care homes and that created the spike. This was done deliberately as every country did the same. The Reset includes killing off as many elderly as possible. The current surge in hospital beds is probably due to the flu season and those who have had a recent flu jab.

183583 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #482 of 2450 🔗

I think of this as partly going along with the Covid narrative. It acknowledges that government actions caused the excess deaths, but it starts from the narrative that says Covid is really, really dangerous and infectious. I still reserve the right to be sceptical of it. I wasn’t there in the care homes; I don’t know that these people didn’t just die of a withdrawal of treatment; and if they looked like respiratory deaths, it might have been ‘just flu’. Basically, I don’t want to give an inch to the criminals who are spinning the Covid yarn.

183616 ▶▶▶ Alan P, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #483 of 2450 🔗

Yes, hospital cases rising, but what about hospital cases discharged?

Where are those missing numbers?

183638 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Alan P, 1, #484 of 2450 🔗

And they NEVER. tell us the ages of those admitted, or if the very few that die.

183658 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #485 of 2450 🔗

Everyone has short memories.The NHS refused to admit any patients from care homes after seeding them with Covid patients.Add the number of people who were too scared to go to hospital and instead died in their homes.They would account for a lot of the spike and since then you would have a steady stream of deaths from cancer patients who’s treatment was stopped.

183769 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #486 of 2450 🔗

Not a single frickin statistic can be trusted.

Most of those excess deaths were due to lockdown.

183786 ▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #487 of 2450 🔗

A few thousand extra people may have died in April and May

if by a few you mean 66 , then I agree. Sadly the incidence of cardiovascular death has not changed. Cancer mortality will rise but those deaths were far too soon for that.

184758 ▶▶▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to djaustin, #488 of 2450 🔗

I know from trustworthy source that the ICUs in the USA were running at full capacity in the spring with extra respiratory patients on ventilators. By June the numbers had fallen.

183465 ▶▶ FlynnQuill, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #489 of 2450 🔗

Evidence and common sense unfortunately do not matter one jot. We have been taken over, lock stock and barrel. Media sown up spreading lies and propaganda, most of the papers, Social media sown up deleting anything that descents from the pro covid narrative. We just can’t get the truth out. Classic authoritarian take over 101.

183475 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Steve Martindale, 6, #490 of 2450 🔗

How much of the excess deaths earlier in the year due to the somewhat weaker flu seasons of the previous two years leaving more vulnerable older people? The median being over 82 would suggest that this may be the case.

183576 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #491 of 2450 🔗

Thanks Steve for the mention on the graphs. They should be taken with a pinch of salt, as it’s really a “shit in, shit out” situation. The figures from ONS are all over the place. But overall, 2020 doesn’t so far look hugely different to many other recent years.

Having said that, it is pretty clear that the virus had an affect on the very old and sick during April/May, mostly in care homes and hospitals. We know from Italy that some of these people were killed by the stress of the situation. Also New York had a serious problem with deaths at home…
http://www.ptca.org/news/2020/0408_INCREASED_DEATHS_NYC.html

I don’t think there is one simple explanation of what happened, as nice as that would be. I’d go for perfect storm, that’s rumbling off into the distance.

184307 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Steve Martindale, #492 of 2450 🔗

I’m quite surprised Julia is still able to get government ministers to agree to be interviewed now – she has become increasingly sceptic and as a result very forensic in her ‘grilling’ of interviewees. Woe betide anyone who is not on top of their figures when she interviews them!!!

183440 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 51, #493 of 2450 🔗

This is the way forward!!

https://twitter.com/Eyecatcher_Pro/status/1315764212971515908

For those without Twitter:

Socialist_Tipster

@Eyecatcher_Pro

Bunch of gyms have come together in Liverpool and are refusing to close. They’re saying they will back each other up and will spread the cost of fines or legal action taken by police or council.

183444 ▶▶ matt, replying to Nick Rose, 23, #494 of 2450 🔗

Superb news. I hope some pubs follow the lead too.

183446 ▶▶ annie, replying to Nick Rose, 10, #495 of 2450 🔗

I hope many people will chip in.The very best of luck to them.

183476 ▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Nick Rose, 8, #496 of 2450 🔗

Hope so, shutting gyms is so incredibly stupid, when poor cardio health is the no1 reason people suffer through CCP Virus infection.

183497 ▶▶ Will, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #497 of 2450 🔗

Good for them.

183524 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #498 of 2450 🔗

Hope they set up crowdfunding. I’d happily chip in a fiver to anyone who fights it. Been supporting Simon Dolan’s efforts for ages.

183445 Caroline Watson, replying to Caroline Watson, 29, #499 of 2450 🔗

The left is splitting, between public sector, middle class lockdown obsessives and insecurely and poorly paid, working class lockdown opponents. Most Labour Party members are in the first group but the town halls of the North still contain a considerable number of the second. Lockdowns are seen, rightly, as protecting the middle class while the working class either face redundancy or carry on working as normal, hampered by bloody silly masks. And, in Liverpool, they can’t even go to the pub or the gym.

There is also a social element. The middle class lives in nuclear family bubbles, away from original families. Not visiting relatives is no big deal and, whilst their teenagers are probably screaming with frustration at their obsessively Covid-phobic parents, they are likely to have their own rooms and the technology to escape to an online world. The traditional working class in Northern towns and cities lives near extended family and there is a tradition of mutual support and socialising within the family. For a Westminster Tory government to ban that, with support from a middle class, North London -dominated Labour Party, will stoke up a massive amount of anger. This will be harnessed by the non-public sector unions, led by Len McCluskey, who will use it to bash Starmer, who is perceived as a Blairite. It will be interesting to see which way he jumps.

183463 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Caroline Watson, 12, #500 of 2450 🔗

The split was there a long time ago especially when Labour began to attract the support of the upper middle class Fabian socialists who always disguised their contempt for the poor and the working class under the veneer of social reform which almost always translates into “we know what’s good for you”

Fast forward to the 1990s the mask began to well and truly slip with the rise of Blair and his Islington & Highgate champagne socialist chums and whilst Labour are no longer in power; they still hold the reins of power in the education, culture, media and heritage sectors as well as the quangos.

And despite the defeat inflicted on them last year its clear that Labour still haven’t learned as illustrated by that photo of Starmer & whatshername above.

183484 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Bart Simpson, 15, #501 of 2450 🔗

I agree with you and as a socialist for more than 50 years, I have been ignored/ patronized, and insulted by Guardian reading middle class “socialists” over the years, in their belief that socialism is too good for the working class.
But I don’t want to listen to libertarian right wingers such as Farage, Tim Martin and others who “identify” with the working class and understand, etc,etc.
These people no more understand how ordinary people live than the “Champagne” socialists of North London

183539 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Fingerache Philip., #502 of 2450 🔗

Where do you stand on the roundhead vs. cavalier issue? I thought there was supposed to be a bond between the cavaliers and many working people. The Farage phenomenon reminds of that, I think.

183753 ▶▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Barney McGrew, #503 of 2450 🔗

Very shrewd observation.

My experience too.

183623 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #504 of 2450 🔗

Labour abandoned the working class long ago.Its just the Northern Working class didn’t realise it until the last election.There are millions of people in this country with no voice.It cannot continue

183666 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 5, #505 of 2450 🔗

It’s hardly like anyone was picking the baton up though. The closest was probably UKIP. The last election was people finally giving up on labour more than jumping to the tories.

The sad truth is, a labour party that is unelectable but an actual opposition would be preferable than a labour party that is electable and no different to the conservatives.

The HOC should be a plurality of positions, whether I agree with them all or not. Without that, we end up with a glorified echo chamber behaving exactly as it is right now.

185004 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #506 of 2450 🔗

Agree. Bigot-gate and Brexit was the catalyst for the working class to finally wake up and really see what Labour has been saying about them behind their backs for a long time.

183510 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Caroline Watson, 4, #507 of 2450 🔗

Nope – some of the middle class may THINK that lockdown protects them; actually, OF COURSE, it will be just as damaging (if not more so) for the middle class as for the working class.

183523 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to IanE, 8, #508 of 2450 🔗

Many of the middle classes are economically and financially illiterate. They will be in for a rude shock when Sunak announces tax raids on their cosy pensions and savings. Not to mention when they also tumble in value leaving them as worthless as Zimbabwe’s currency.

183674 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #509 of 2450 🔗

If bail-ins will get announced, I will allow myseful a few minutes of laughter and a toast to the morons who thought this was all a great idea. Only after that will I allow the true horror of what these bastards have done to sink in.

Schaudenfruede first.

185008 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #510 of 2450 🔗

Yep. I will not shed tears for the wealthy pensioners I know who supported lockdown then find themselves in a deep financial doo after all this.

They will reap what they sow and will have to share the pain like the rest of us.

183758 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to IanE, 3, #511 of 2450 🔗

First lockdown came for the socially precarious, but I did nothing because I thought I was safe in my comfy public sector middle-class bubble.

The lockdown came for …..

183448 Yawnyaman, replying to Yawnyaman, 32, #512 of 2450 🔗

Interesting if disturbing article in the Times by Chris Smyth, behind paywalls, but making it clear that the Government was fixated on instilling fear into the people as without that fear they did not think they could control the virus. Think and reflect on this. Do they realise that they are our elected representatives? This is the sign of a profoundly abusive relationship.

183457 ▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to Yawnyaman, 7, #513 of 2450 🔗

It’s not even about ‘controlled the virus’; it’s about Saving The NHS and, therefore, themselves from accusations that they can’t be trusted with it.

183480 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Caroline Watson, 7, #514 of 2450 🔗

The NHS is being destroyed along with everything else. It’s not about controlling the virus or saving the NHS. It’s about enslaving you and taking away everything you had.

183488 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Caroline Watson, 9, #515 of 2450 🔗

The “second wave” we are seeing and the reaction to it, is a manipulation of the statistics to create a scenario in which the government and their corrupt advisors can claim credit for “beating” the virus.

183493 ▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Will, 6, #516 of 2450 🔗

we ‘beat’ the virus in June. This is all about panic at what might happen if you have shitty modelling

183462 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 6, #517 of 2450 🔗

For those who tell you there are more hospitalisations than in March:

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/healthcare

Scroll down to the very first chart…

183491 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Nick Rose, #518 of 2450 🔗

I keep hearing the BBC say there are more people with covid in hospital now than before the lockdown. which is true. as before can be anytime before 23rd of march. but it is deliberately misleading

183511 ▶▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to steve_w, 4, #519 of 2450 🔗

Now they are testing everyone who is admitted to hospital. In March, they only tested people with symptoms and kicked all the others out, often to spread it in care homes.m

183582 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Caroline Watson, #520 of 2450 🔗

As part of the redefinition of ‘case’

183673 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to steve_w, #521 of 2450 🔗

There are more in hospital now than on March 23rd. However, as I explained to you the figure is misleading because the rate of increase is completely different.

Sceptics need to sharpen up their stats skills. I’ve been saying this for months.

183731 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mayo, #522 of 2450 🔗

Care to compare today’s number with March 25th then? You’re being very disingenuous here. Our current “second wave” has gone from roughly 800 towards the end of August to 3,665 yesterday (not including Wales, Scotland, NI, presumably their data is added later). It’s taken fifty days.

20th March is when the numbers start (1,600 UK) to 19,300 on the 8th April, which is at or near the actual peak. Also fifty days.

So as of today, we’re looking at hospitalisations that have doubled twice, roughly, in fifty days, compared with those back in March/April that, also over fifty days, doubled five and a half times.

I don’t think it is we sceptics who need to review how we look at statistics.

183775 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #523 of 2450 🔗

Nick, I think Mayo is actually making the same point you are (minus the statistical skills comment. That was the point he was making yesterday, in any case.

183778 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to matt, #524 of 2450 🔗

🤔

183866 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Nick Rose, #525 of 2450 🔗

Unless I’ve misread one or both of you, you’re both saying that the number today might be a similar number to that of 23rd March, but the rate of increase is significantly different, so next week’s number is very unlikely to be similar to the number on 30th March.

No?

183772 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to steve_w, #526 of 2450 🔗

It is. And wrong from the 25th March.

183471 Andy Thompson, 7, #527 of 2450 🔗

How about “Cowardly custards” to replace bed welters?

183482 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 20, #528 of 2450 🔗

Just listened to Jonathan Ashworth Labour Shadow Health Secretary on my daily 45 second burst of BBC R4 waiting for the kettle to boil. Oh lordy what a tool this guys is. He wants a total lockdown of the whole country and is saying the government is not following the science because the SAGE minutes have been released.

He is saying that economic factors cannot be considered because if the virus was left to spread due to any social mixing then it will kill so many people that this will cause an economic catastrophe.

For goodness sake. Labour are playing political points scoring with real harm to people’s lives. What a fucking tool this guy is.

183498 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Two-Six, 1, #529 of 2450 🔗

The best we can hope for is a split between govt an opposition. one wants a lockdown, the other doesn’t. it suits me if labour wants to go all out for a lockdown til the vaccine comes. it allows the Boris some space to go sweden

183505 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to steve_w, 6, #530 of 2450 🔗

I rather think that Boris and Sweden have been shown to live in different universes. I know which one deserves collision with a Black Hole.

183501 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Two-Six, 5, #531 of 2450 🔗

however false it may be that 510,000 geriatrics would die if we let the virus ‘rip’. it would have no significant economic aspects

183764 ▶▶ Mel, replying to Two-Six, 3, #532 of 2450 🔗

The sight of that semi-retarded gobshite telling Sunetra Gupta on Question Time in his stupid nasal whine, that “other scientists disagree, and I’m trying to save lives” when she pointed out the inconsistencies of not locking down for flu, made me a little bit sick in my mouth.

183494 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 17, #533 of 2450 🔗

Dont think there have been many winters when elderly patients in corridors hasnt been the norm in the NHS. The adulation of it is a joke. How they managed to get so many clappers should lead to an investigation into mental health.

183553 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Sarigan, #535 of 2450 🔗

National scandal and they call it a national treasure.

183512 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Dan Clarke, 7, #536 of 2450 🔗

I recall 20 years ago my mother being taken to hospital and on arriving there found her on a trolley in the the corridor because apparently there were no beds available but on complaining they miraculously found one! This is nothing new the NHS has never been as good as the political class think but then the political class are never dumped in a corridor!

185042 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Bella Donna, #537 of 2450 🔗

Where we used to live there were regular ambulance jams outside the local hospital, they couldn’t even decant their patients into the building

183593 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #538 of 2450 🔗

I thought I’d imagined the 2018 fiasco. It was all over social media and MSM, pictures of people in corridors everywhere.

183508 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 18, #539 of 2450 🔗

The government’s modus operandi is this:

Firstly send out the scientists, Twitty and Unbalanced, with lots of scary looking graphs. Tell the general public that things are going to get really, really bad. There will be an exponential growth in the number of cases by October unless we do something NOW.

Once they’ve worked their audience, along comes Boris (we’re seeing less of Handjob lately aren’t we?). He tells us that he doesn’t want to do any of this but it’s for our own good. He does a bit of tweaking of the regulations- rule of six, ten o’clock curfew etc.

Secondly, send out the Deputy CMO, Damn Vans. Promise the general public that they will have a lot more hospitalisations and deaths over which to salivate. Show more scary graphs which people won’t understand plus a few maps to demonstrate that the virus is spreading all over the place. Hope people won’t notice that the maps don’t exactly show that, but still….

Enter stage right, Boris, saying he really hates doing this to us but is going to do it anyway. He tweaks a few more rules for a part of the country but more or less leaves most of us in the same position as before.

He dangles a carrot in front of us and says he hopes that we will be able to have a normal Christmas but only if we do as we are told.

Rinse and repeat ad infinitum. A couple of weeks before Christmas, lift most of the restrictions. The whole country, after suffering from mass amnesia, joins in a chorus of “For they are jolly good fellows”

183519 ▶▶ l835, replying to Margaret, 16, #540 of 2450 🔗

The last person who told me to do something “for my own good” without explaining why was my mother, and I was 8. Boris isn’t my mum.

Go away Boris.

183520 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Margaret, 7, #541 of 2450 🔗

Spot on. But I don’t believe they will relax things for Christmas.

183532 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Charlie Blue, 6, #542 of 2450 🔗

Less chance than an illegal gathering of more than six cats in hell.

183542 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Charlie Blue, 6, #543 of 2450 🔗

Hopefully by then, we will have seen the numbers drop, as in Spain.
Handjob may well be beavering away at manipulating the testing system as he did say it would take a few weeks to sort out the testing shortage problems. That was a few weeks ago! It’s not long until the end of October. Weren’t we promised 500,000 tests a day by then?
Perhaps he will order the labs to lower the Ct cycles for the PCR test. That should lower the numbers nicely.
Oliver Dowden also mentioned Christmas the other day. I think it’s all part of the master plan.

183575 ▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Margaret, 2, #544 of 2450 🔗

The numbers probably will drop but they will claim (and perhaps even believe) that this is due to restrictions. I don’t hear any indication from ministers that they want this to end. Boris wants to beat the virus and that is impossible (he must know that). I like your optimism but those in charge know little of most people’s lives and are going all out to prove they care even less

183627 ▶▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #545 of 2450 🔗

Oh, I definitely think that they will claim that it’s all because of the measures that they have taken but I believe that they had to be seen to have done something to cause the numbers to drop, even though they were dropping anyway without the measures. You can hardly call what they are doing is anything more than a bit of “tinkering” at the edges for effect.

How else could they justify ruining the country? They are saving us all from certain death.

183592 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Charlie Blue, 4, #546 of 2450 🔗

The rule of six will be.They know they can’t carry the country with them if they ban Granny from Christmas.Who knows with all the other rubbish.I know it’s not long before economic reality intrudes on their scientific experiment.Then it gets interesting.

183691 ▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #547 of 2450 🔗

Good point. Though I don’t think they care about winning hearts and minds any more. They must realise people will ignore the rule of 6 so they will magnanimously give permission to pre-empt this

183729 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #548 of 2450 🔗

That was my point.Its not about hearts and minds.Its what they think they can get away with

183565 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Margaret, 1, #549 of 2450 🔗

family member, north east, teacher, is sceptic but following the rules because she doesn’t want to be harassed when out or by neighbours commenting or more.

183517 Bart Simpson, 13, #550 of 2450 🔗

Littlejohn’s article is spot on and should be required reading for those still asleep. Furlough is ending in two weeks and we should brace ourselves for an even bigger tsunami of job losses and bankruptcies.

Why and how people could still be impervious to what’s happening to us is baffling.

Given the government doubling down on the lunacy, I’m angry that businesses and institutions are still reluctant to fight back with the latter bought off by Sunak’s Culture Fund which I suspect will never reach its intended targets.

Why will they not realise that their cowardice and continued kowtowing to the government’s insane diktats will prove to be their undoing and that they cannot rely on handouts and bribes forever?

Winter is coming and it will be a harsh one. They ignore this at their peril.

183529 nickbowes, 16, #551 of 2450 🔗

Thank you for the write up Toby and the magnificent daily work (and comments) on this website, I don t watch the news anymore and many newspaper websites are ruined by endless ads and paywalls so this site is invaluable but fear if society carries on down this destructive path it is only a matter of time before it is pulled somehow.

I appreciate that people have come here from every political persuasion but have a common enemy. Don t “keep safe” time to get angry. Keep up the good work though.

183534 Bill h, 12, #552 of 2450 🔗

Ashworth on Talk Radio.

‘Lockdowns for many bleak years……’

Drivelling on.

The man is even worse than Handcock.

If such ‘twer possible.

183541 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 34, #553 of 2450 🔗

I will be going into Kidderminster soon sporting my large “NO LOCKDOWN. /WE WANT FREEDOM” badge.
Hopefully I will return a bit sore after people have agreed with me and slapped me on the back.
But perhaps I will return with 2 black eyes and minus a few teeth.
WISH ME LUCK.

183555 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #554 of 2450 🔗

Let us know how it goes 😉

183586 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to mattghg, 1, #555 of 2450 🔗

Will do.

184071 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to mattghg, 3, #556 of 2450 🔗

Just back from “Kiddie” and somewhat disappointed, only about 2 people seemed to notice my badge; 1 gave me an “old fashioned” ( disapproving) look; I can only think that people are that downtrodden, that they follow every increasingly bizarre rule without questioning it.
“Eyes that cannot see,Ears that cannot hear,Mouths that cannot speak and brains that cannot think”
But still, I have all my few remaining 71 year old teeth and no black eyes.

183578 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #557 of 2450 🔗

Good luck Philip. I’m trying to locate a ‘Tiger horn’ (or just a small horn of some sort) that I can sport around my neck when I go into shops—and I will use it!
For those not familiar with the Tiger horn see here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_pFoaUiZoE

It will give me immense pleasure, to tell those who ask, that it is to ward off evil spirits and ‘deadly virus’s

183644 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Harry hopkins, #558 of 2450 🔗

I’m going to carry my Ting Mong around with me. I’ll push him around Aldis in the trolley.

https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/southeast-asia/article/3105049/cambodia-coronavirus-scarecrows-deployed-farmers-ward

183650 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Harry hopkins, #559 of 2450 🔗

Brilliant video by the way. Thanks for sharing.

184081 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Harry hopkins, #560 of 2450 🔗

Many thanks, Harry, always a pleasure to hear from you.

183631 ▶▶ annie, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #561 of 2450 🔗

Good luck, Philip!

184078 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to annie, #562 of 2450 🔗

Many thanks, Ann.

183547 Elenesse, replying to Elenesse, 24, #563 of 2450 🔗

Had to unfriend someone on Facebook this morning because he posted a long status bemoaning how overrun the NHS are and how bloody wonderful they are coping in a pandemic. No mention I see of the long list of cancer patients awaiting treatment nor of the wider health implications of lockdown. This constant adulation of the NHS makes me sick. They’re not and never have been overrun, they’ve been operating below capacity for months. Meanwhile we are all paying the ultimate price for this lunacy. I think what frustrates me the most is that people accept this and worship the NHS as some sort of God which can never be held accountable.

183561 ▶▶ jb12, replying to Elenesse, 6, #564 of 2450 🔗

Ironically, most hospitals operate at close to or over capacity most of the time; the response to Covid has them as quiet as they ever have been!

183662 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to jb12, 2, #565 of 2450 🔗

Germany has had 20.000 fewer deaths sofar, just because of less hospital admissions and that effect on deadly bacterial infections caught there.
On the other hand, it has had even more deaths due to people not coming to see their doctors and getting rescued in time.
The biggest group on the table of Berlin’s Charite’s coroner are people who locked themselves in for months and were too afraid to go and see a doctor.

183820 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #566 of 2450 🔗

I liked the statistic which showed 40 “covid” deaths, but 400 due to household accidents (falling of the chair and breaking your neck whilst trying to change a lightbulb)

183581 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to Elenesse, 6, #567 of 2450 🔗

I am embarrassed and ashamed to admit that I was sucked into the Covid stuff at the beginning and yes, I did clap for them on a few occasions. I cringe now when I think back!

183611 ▶▶▶ Elenesse, replying to Janice21, 3, #568 of 2450 🔗

To be fair, so was I back in March. Back then it was a new virus and nobody knew what to expect. I think I began to be sceptical when I saw the tiktok videos and the evidence wasn’t stacking up to justify the increasing restrictions. By now, people really should wake up to what’s really going on. This has never really been about a virus but is an outright war on our basic liberties.

183637 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Janice21, 4, #569 of 2450 🔗

“And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father’s have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, and am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants. And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.”

Luke 15:17–20

183703 ▶▶▶ Jenny, replying to Janice21, 1, #570 of 2450 🔗

Janice – me too. At first it was new and I supported the initial lockdown. Started to turn when it was obvious the NHS was never close to being overwhelmed but they still seemed to be carrying on with restrictions etc.

183614 ▶▶ l835, replying to Elenesse, 2, #571 of 2450 🔗

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but were all hospital patients being tested for Covid in March? Now everyone is tested, no wonder there are more patients with Covid in hospital now!

183765 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to Elenesse, #572 of 2450 🔗

A cancer patient on the waiting list can’t be described as helping to over run the NHS, can they? I mean, they’re sitting at home dying, rather than bed blocking their local hospital.

183783 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Mark H, #573 of 2450 🔗

Exactly this. They are so determined to signal their deep virtue that they fail to see that every extra calorie they put on is putting the NHS at risk. That that second bottle of wine is a dangerous decsiison, stay in bed, wear a mask.

They’ve no idea the world they inhabit.

185026 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Elenesse, 1, #574 of 2450 🔗

I know someone who still worships the Church of the NHS despite his health problems and the troubles he’s having getting appointments for them.

Certain people are so far gone its hard to wake them up.

183548 Jules, replying to Jules, 5, #575 of 2450 🔗

It is, of course, abhorrent to liken Nicola Sturgeon, the 21st Century Scottish matriarch to the 20th century German patriarch Mr A Hitler. What ever did the dictator and leader of the National Socialists Party (NSP) do to deserve being likened to the dictator and leader of the Scottish Nationalist Party (SNP)?

183629 ▶▶ annie, replying to Jules, 2, #576 of 2450 🔗

I think the one is a reincarnation of the other. Look who’s back.
And Dan Down Below is a reincarnation of Pol Pot.

183634 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Jules, 1, #577 of 2450 🔗

Quite right. She’s more akin to Herr A. Schicklgruber.

183664 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #578 of 2450 🔗

Heil Sturgogruber.

183549 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 44, #579 of 2450 🔗

Out of the blue receive this e-mail from an acquaintance during the night:

I had the pleasure of speaking to a family of medics from Liverpool today – 2 Paramedics and 2 Nurses…… Get this, without prompting, the young son ( mid 20’s ) says “this is a a load of horse shit, its a form of control”/ I asked why, he said and confirmed along with the paramedics on the front line in Liverpool, that they are NOT seeing admissions, as suggested by the Government.

They disclosed, incoming patients who had needed medical assistance for example, for falling off their bicycle – were disclosed in hospital as Covid Patients. A broken leg on another patient again disclosed as Covid. Then the best….. a burns patient goes in – guess what – confirmed as Covid!! This is a tragic manipulation by our Government via the Heads of Department that have been deliberately instructed to write up Covid for any case they can get away with. Its a fucking disgrace John!!

This was face to face, I would find it hard to believe otherwise – but , seriously, 100% without being prompted.”

Told him to get the family to contact Toby or Simon Dolan or Gavin Phillips or Francis Hoar with their experiences.

183591 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Awkward Git, 17, #580 of 2450 🔗

Last week I went to dinner with one of the most people in a local hospital. She is one under CEO. She said exactly the same. Exactly!

It is very much a massive lie. How we expose it is key.

Have a feeling those on the front line will be doubled down on the gagging!

183603 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Awkward Git, 12, #581 of 2450 🔗

We really need these people to come out and tell the truth. From all the posts on here in the last few weeks there must be thousands of them – there must be strength in numbers – they can’t sack them all can they?

184484 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to CGL, 1, #582 of 2450 🔗

If “these people” don’t come out and tell the truth they will still be for the chopping bloc, so they have nothing whatsoever to lose. It’s long been clear that this massive Covid scam is about depopulation and massive depopulation at that. Vaccines will be main weapon used against us and have to be avoided at all costs. Those who are plotting the genocide will not stop, unless they are stopped themselves, so we are now in a fight for our very lives.

183699 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #583 of 2450 🔗

Details of who to contact for whistleblowing been passed on to the family.

Hope they make use of them.

These are who I give people fi they have similar stories:

Get them to contact this guy anonymously with his story if you can:

Gavin Phillips

gavinph@protonmail.com

https://twitter.com/photopro28?lang=en

Or Toby Young at lockdownsceptics@gmail.com

Or Simon Dolan

simon@keepbritainfree.com https://twitter.com/simondolan

Or Francis Hoar:

via his law clerks clerks@fieldcourt.co.uk

https://twitter.com/search?q=francis%20hoar&src=typed_query

or

https://twitter.com/LeahButlerSmith

183752 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #584 of 2450 🔗

we already suspected (and discussed elsewhere) that it was likely that these sort of admissions were being included as “covid” because the patients on admissions were being tested as a formality and if the test showed a positive bingo.. its a covid case.

However, do we know if this is the case for these incidents? Or are admissions just being written up as covid regardless?

183768 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #585 of 2450 🔗

This is what we call black box accounting. We are being shielded from the actual data so we can only go on the cries of covid capacity form the bosses. Only serves to seed mistrust and they wonder why people are going elsewhere for their information

183550 Miss Owl, replying to Miss Owl, 31, #586 of 2450 🔗

I love you all, and have learnt lots from many of you, but I have a plea:

Can we PLEASE stop the infighting about what to call non-sceptics. Who cares? I’m surprised Mr Young has made such an issue of it. Just call them what you want, especially here btl.

183727 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Miss Owl, 1, #587 of 2450 🔗

Well said!

I don’t use the term myself because it seems inadequate, but if others want to use it I’m not bothered.

Probably not to be recommended if we want to change people’s minds however.

183554 HelzBelz, replying to HelzBelz, 18, #588 of 2450 🔗

So Tedros Ghebreyesus, head of the WHO, says that herd immunity is not acquired naturally – only via vaccination (yesterday’s Guardian). So how does this utterly uneducated / devious, lying* piece of shit think humanity has survived over the millennia?

(*delete as preferred)

183556 ▶▶ jb12, replying to HelzBelz, 2, #589 of 2450 🔗

But this virus is different!

183564 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to jb12, 4, #590 of 2450 🔗

It is intelligent

183620 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to p02099003, #591 of 2450 🔗

Unlike anybody in government or the WHO. No wonder p they can,p’t keep up.

183645 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to HelzBelz, 2, #592 of 2450 🔗

In a way, we must be grateful for this comment.
It confirms what Profs Gatti, Montanari and RKjr’s CHD have stated since quite a while:
Herd immunity is a purely theoretical computer model concept without any medical evidence, invented by epidimiologists aka computer modelers, on behalf of the vaccine industry.
Only it, and its sofar unquestioned acceptance as a fact rather than treatment as a myth, provides the reason for vaccinating people not at serious risk of a pathogen and a disease, and the one for mandating just that.

183743 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #593 of 2450 🔗

Is herd immunity just a cull of susceptible individuals then?

Is there no basis to the idea that immunity is gained through exposure this reducing the transmission of a virus through the population?

So vaccines are completely pointless?

183562 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #594 of 2450 🔗

I like the world poltroon because it is similar to the Italian word poltrona = armchair. There must be some sort of link.

(And it bain’t be used much nowadays neither which is another good reason for using it.)

183847 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Ned of the Hills, #595 of 2450 🔗

Whey-faced nestlecock ? 🙂 Another one rarely heard these days.

183568 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 9, #596 of 2450 🔗

In Ivor Cummins video on Ireland from a day or two ago he shows that the rise in hospitalisations for each winter follows an exponential for the period between Sept and Nov. So you can often see up to a 10-fold increase in hospitalisations.

So Van-Tam is basically saying we should get worried about something that occurs every year.

The reframing of normal behaviour as exceptional is all this is about.

In other words: 2 + 2 = 5

183720 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to mhcp, 3, #597 of 2450 🔗

Any hospital complaining of capacity. Just Google that hospital for similar releases in previous years. I did it for mine (my town has the highest case rates in Europe now). I immediately found examples in January this year, 2019 winter, 2017, 2015. The list goes on

183569 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 9, #598 of 2450 🔗

ONS data just out

Deaths where the underlying cause was respiratory disease (ICD-10 J00-J99) – 901

Deaths where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate (ICD-10 U07.1 and U07.2) – 321

colds killing 3x more than covid in the latest week released. There shouldn’t be any restrictions if we were following the science

183573 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to steve_w, 1, #599 of 2450 🔗

here

184312 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to steve_w, #600 of 2450 🔗

Deaths where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate

Not the cause of death, just mentioned.

It’s so ambiguous, isn’t it?

183580 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 16, #601 of 2450 🔗

Its a NATIONAL DISGRACE that endless money is being ploughed into a disease where 82 is the average age of dying with it, when cancer patients are denied continuing treatment because they cant afford the drugs. People have lost the plot if they think this is ok.

183607 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #602 of 2450 🔗

I find it hard to fathom just how many people are blinded by this!

183747 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Janice21, 1, #603 of 2450 🔗

Money is no object when people are talking about saving themselves.

183626 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #604 of 2450 🔗

An international disgrace.
Tens of billions spent sofar on medically completely pointless testing, in the UK alone.
£50 billion per year to be spent on a likely completely pointless, inefficient and dangerous vaccine.
£100 billion per year for quick testing as per operation moonshot.
That’s more than the whole NHS budget spent on sensible stuff pre Corona- and during Corona 2/3rds of NHS spending was money thrown out of the window, at idled doctors and nurses, anyway.

Madness, and/as eventually:
Something’s gotta give.

183584 Mabel Cow, replying to Mabel Cow, 19, #605 of 2450 🔗

If you feel like losing a few Facebook friends, post these words of advice to the beleaguered people of the North.

183598 ▶▶ annie, replying to Mabel Cow, 3, #606 of 2450 🔗

Very, very good one.

183588 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 3, #607 of 2450 🔗

There is a positive way forward available to this government. Time to slice through the Gordian knot.

May I respectfully suggest that this site recommends a policy of voluntary BCG vaccination for vulnerable groups to protect against covid 19 so that the rest of the country can get back to business.

I suggest this based on two studies:

‘Data show that BCG vaccination is safe and can protect the elderly against infections.’

https://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(20)31139-9.pdf

And

‘Results:

The BCG vaccine coverage in 1999–2002, 2004, and 2012 in five prefectures with no COVID-19 infections was significantly higher than that in five prefectures with a high prevalence of infections (Mann-Whitney U test, p <0.05). The prevalence of SARS-CoV-2 infection was significantly negatively correlated with BCG vaccine coverage in 2004 and was significantly positively correlated with age groups 20–34 and 40–54 years (Spearman’s rank correlation, p <0.01).

Conclusions:

Our findings suggest that routine infant BCG vaccination coverage in young generation had a significant impact on prevention of local COVID-19 spread in Japan.’

https://www.journalofinfection.com/article/S0163-4453(20)30547-8/fulltext

183602 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Tim Bidie, 2, #608 of 2450 🔗

I and my contemporaries had the BCG vaccination in the 1970’s, with TB being present in some communities it is still given, although not to the general population.

183617 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to p02099003, 2, #609 of 2450 🔗

Indeed. However this country has had, at the very least, 10 million (net) immigrants since then, most without any recorded vaccination history.

183610 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 4, #610 of 2450 🔗

This coronavirus is but one of over 160 common cold viruses, all equally deadly to the elderly and infirm, immunocompromised.

A specific covid 19 vaccine therefore makes no sense.

BCG vaccination can protect against a variety of different viruses, so has a great deal more utility, is proven safe, readily available, can be pressed into service immediately.

183636 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Tim Bidie, 2, #611 of 2450 🔗

Probably not profitable enough for the big players.

183660 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to DRW, 2, #612 of 2450 🔗

If Britain adopts a policy of voluntary BCG vaccination, that would be a massive shot in the arm for worldwide sales……

I know I left my coat somewhere here…….

184013 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Tim Bidie, #613 of 2450 🔗

The majority of the population over a certain age will have had the BCG vaccination already. I don’t know if it’s one given to children still.
Once upon a time, TB had been nearly eradicated from the UK, but the prevalence has increased again along with immigration from regions of the world where it’s still widespread….

183716 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #614 of 2450 🔗

If all of this were about an illness or a virus then that sounds like a good suggestion, and we could resume normal human existence

Unfortunately, …………

183740 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #615 of 2450 🔗

I think they are wanting to see a big return on the billions they have ploughed into this agenda, like trillions.

184014 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Tim Bidie, #616 of 2450 🔗

May I respectfully suggest that this site recommends a policy of voluntary BCG vaccination for vulnerable groups to protect against covid 19 so that the rest of the country can get back to business.

Absolutely not. You might be able to ‘handle’ vaccinations well, but lots of people have severe and life threatening reactions to vaccines. We are all different and our bodies react differently to stressors like vaccines, shock etc.

The UK Government has paid out about £73million to nearly 1000 children and adults, representing 1 in 8 claimants who were minimum 60% injured by a vaccine between 1979-2014** ~ Vaccines have been accepted by most governments to cause a multitude of devastating injuries, including brain damage, seizure disorders, deafness, Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS), encephalitis (inflammation of the brain) and death. ~ If you or your child suffers injury or a new health condition after vaccination please ask your GP or pharmacist to complete a Yellowcard, or go online yourself to ensure this is recorded.

http://vaccineinjury.uk

183589 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 2, #617 of 2450 🔗

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54512034 was this really covid19? Could it be another viral infection or even a bacterial infection, the positive test proves nothing.

183601 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to p02099003, 2, #618 of 2450 🔗

My thoughts exactly. It’s also very conveniently timed, too.

183676 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #619 of 2450 🔗

Especially as it all happened in April and May….

183655 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to p02099003, 1, #620 of 2450 🔗

Of course it could have been something else. My friend’s son-in-law tested positive for Covid and was ill for a month. He is a doctor and thought that he had had Covid a month or so previously but was never tested for it. He self-isolated anyway. When he was ill for a second time, he did get a positive test result, he had a high temperature and a cough. His own doctor had a phone consultation with him and gave him a course of antibiotics in case it was a chest infection. He didn’t take them. I think I would have done so, just in case. As you say, the test is meaningless.

183700 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to p02099003, 1, #621 of 2450 🔗

I was arguing with someone about reinfection recently. They said they knew somebody who’d experienced it. They were ill in June and tested negative. They were ill again this month and tested positive. That’s where their evidence ended. True story.

I am increasingly concerned about undiagnosed brain injuries in this country

183871 ▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to p02099003, #622 of 2450 🔗

Today’s latest scare tactic then?

I was ruminating over the “positive tests” being equated to “cases” the incidence of asymptomatic presentation, and the possibility of the asymptomatic people being a source of infection. In my mind I am comparing this to the vaircella-zoster virus which manifests itself as either Chicken-Pox or Shingles.

It turns out that my “gut feeling” was right: Having had Chicken-Pox many years ago it turns out that today I would test positive for the virus but as I’m not displaying any symptoms of infection I do not have to quarantine because I am not infectious.

So why are we treating positive but asymptomatic people any differently in the SARS-COV2 situation?

183595 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 8, #623 of 2450 🔗

Thinking about CivilianNotCovidian’s nasty experience, here is an extract from my local council’s website Snitching Section:

Tell the police about someone possibly breaking the COVID-19 rules If you think a business or an individual may be breaking coronavirus measures, please report them to the police directly. This includes large gatherings, socialising in people’s houses and not wearing face coverings in public places – see government restrictions .

While there is an indirect link, there is surprise, surprise, no mention of exemptions. And as we know, the headline does all the work.

183669 ▶▶ annie, replying to Sam Vimes, 6, #624 of 2450 🔗

That is vile.

183606 Paul Steward, replying to Paul Steward, 11, #625 of 2450 🔗

I feel completely hopeless again this morning and I live in the south west, God knows how people in Liverpool are feeling! It seems like we’ll never get out of this now, they intend to follow this path and intricately invade and control our lives indefinitely. I wrote a very polite letter to my MP, George Eustice, a month ago explaining my concerns and requesting a response, I haven’t even received an acknowledgement. I have though heard him on R4 squirming as he attempts to defend his pals, Boris and Matt. Normal life is gone for ever, only approved existence remains. That’s how it feels anyway.

183615 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Paul Steward, 8, #626 of 2450 🔗

I have felt this way since early summer, the initial lockdown was a novelty and was touted as being a short-term measure but, like income tax, its likely to be a semi permanent state of affairs. The fact there is no tier 0 says it all

183661 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Paul Steward, 9, #627 of 2450 🔗

Hang in there, Paul. I feel the same despite only being in a level 1 area. None of us here accept that normal life should be taken away from us. Those of us here, at least, really are in it together. I refuse to abandon hope.

183706 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Charlie Blue, 5, #628 of 2450 🔗

Good for you. Hope is our oxygen. Share it.

183738 ▶▶▶ Paul Steward, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #629 of 2450 🔗

Thanks Charlie, bit of a self pitying wallow from me there 😂 , this seems like one of the few places you can express these feelings.

183609 Telpin, 2, #630 of 2450 🔗

Has anyone done a comparison between current hospitalisation figures and those for first/ second week of October for past 5 years – or to what extent are current figures abnormal. Also are we looking at solely figures for those hospitalised with Co Vid symptoms ( as opposed to other reasons). What has happened to flu admissions? And what’s the age range – ie are we simply seeing usual increase in admission old and frail during start of winter months? And of course – what’s the threat to overall hospital capacity? It’s the job of hospitals to treat the sick after all- something people keep forgetting?

183624 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 8, #631 of 2450 🔗

One of the objections to the GBD is that the amount of population susceptible of worse outcome by C-19 is very high Some has even stated that 60% of the US population are in risk groups. This is coupled with the understanding that sheltering of susceptible people is already occurring and also of care homes. Hence, letting C-19 run through the young population would in the end only increase the death in the susceptible groups. This reasoning, coupled with acknowledging that lockdown is not working but an enormous expanding testing (with “better” tests) and a track and trace like SK Taiwan is the only way forward. This type of arguments are now making grounds in the US as lockdowns is getting more unpopular by the day. I think it is important to rebut those arguments in a sophisticated and evidence based way. The GBD is the only realistic way forward  but we should not be blind to that deaths will occur in that scenario and more so in countries which had hard lockdown.

One of the first thing to point to them is Ionnadis excellent summary of C-19

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/eci.13423

The amount of susceptible and risk groups might have been exaggerated before i.e. pure hypertension is not a risk group and that is a fair part of the population. Quotes from the article

“Besides age, socioeconomic factors, and doubling of risk in men versus women, several clinical risk factors predispose for unfavorable outcome. Substantial increases in death risk (1.5- to 5 fold) are conferred by organ transplantation, severe obesity, uncontrolled diabetes, severe chronic pulmonary obstructive disease, liver failure, kidney failure, hematological malignancy and recent cancer. There is no increased risk with hypertension or remote history of cancer and only small (<1.5-fold) with asthma, chronic heart disease, mild obesity, and cancer 1-5 years ago.”

I did not know that hypertension and not recent cancer was not high risk and the lowering risk for mild obesity ,CHD and asthma. I think that saying 60% of population is at risk of severe outcome of C-19 is an exaggeration of those arguing against GBD. They have also not factored in the clear decrease of deaths of C-19 in the second wave (or flare up of repressed first wave) with data from US and Spain that deaths are reduced even those over 80. Some things are done now given better outcome. New therapeutics are coming with possible even better benefits.

These could be good arguments against the test and track fanatics apart from the hopelessness in tack and trace in a population where C-19 is endemic but that would need another comment.

183688 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to swedenborg, 1, #632 of 2450 🔗

It would be useful if there was data available on how many people who would be deemed high risk or even moderate risk have survived. This would give a clearer picture of risk rather than comparing with only people who have died.

183690 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to swedenborg, 2, #633 of 2450 🔗

Track and trace seems to be floundering on life support already. They need a certain level of uptake. And with PCR as its underlying testing mechanism, it’s on shaky ground given False Negatives.

I honestly think the only way they get to keep us all ‘safe’ is China level super surveillance and compliance. Which is why these are dangerous people of questionable principles.

If we want in live in a free country, we have to accept the risks that come with it.

The good thing is, if we scale back T and T, the level of resource avaliable to shield the vulnerable is increased.

183983 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to swedenborg, 1, #634 of 2450 🔗

The fabled magic bullet will not be risk free if it ever arrives.

183630 Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #635 of 2450 🔗

People don’t like to hear about UN Agenda 2030 because it seems far fetched. Did people spot the Agenda 30 pin badge Boris wore when making a recent zoom speech to the UN? Picture here:

https://twitter.com/DarrenPlymouth/status/1315543986870857728?s=20

183684 ▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Basics, 4, #636 of 2450 🔗

And he (Boris) looks like a very worried man. Is he being blackmailed? Or just totally out of his depth?

183693 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to HelzBelz, 7, #637 of 2450 🔗

Both plus I think he’s in fear of his life from the big boys that are making him do it.

183725 ▶▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Awkward Git, #638 of 2450 🔗

We’re talking about a man who would be quite happy to burn a £50 in front of a homeless person, who has been sacked twice for lying. I think he’s enjoying it. The “looking nervous” is probably just him thinking to himself “I know how stupid they are, let’s see if I can get away with this bullshit”

183710 ▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to HelzBelz, 6, #639 of 2450 🔗

They’re bound to get a bit nervous, no one’s ever committed grand, grand, grand. grand, grand, grand, grand, grand, grand treason and economic genocide before.

I might start just calling this “gran” treason seeing as though we’ve stuffed all our old folk in care homes and left them to die alone. Some of them must be very confused.

184316 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, #640 of 2450 🔗

No – missed that!

183632 DRW, replying to DRW, #641 of 2450 🔗

Just been reading about the warpspeed plans:
https://seekingalpha.com/news/3621297-head-of-operation-warp-speed-sees-emergency-authorization-vaccine-request-around-thanksgiving

Apparently first approval expected next month and then a six month mass rollout next year from January to June, going from highest risk to the lowest. Very similar to the Royal Society proposals.

183975 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to DRW, #642 of 2450 🔗

Just as soon as they track and trace and isolate some dilithium crystals.

183641 zacaway, replying to zacaway, 6, #643 of 2450 🔗

This SAGE advice on face coverings outdoors. As suspected, face masks have a ‘very low impact’.

They even describe it as an ‘excessive measure’, yet the Government still tries to enforce their use.

https://twitter.com/BritainFree/status/1315922895512756226?s=20

183651 ▶▶ DRW, replying to zacaway, 1, #644 of 2450 🔗

Very telling that the advocates were on SPI-B.

183791 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to DRW, 3, #645 of 2450 🔗

They are clearly being very selective with the science that they choose to follow, which as that report suggests, will lead people to question the legitimacy of the advice. It is then not unreasonable to concluded that either the Government has some ulterior motive or is spectacularly incompetent.

Given the Government’s dogmatic attachment to their strategy – to the point of actively suppressing or discrediting dissenting scientists and information – I’m inclined to think they have an ulterior motive.

183695 ▶▶ stewart, replying to zacaway, 5, #646 of 2450 🔗

Interesting how that measures don’t have to be based on scientific evidence, but rather have to be SEEN to be based on scientific evidence.

183646 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, #647 of 2450 🔗

How worried should we be about rising hospitalisations piece…

Can I clarify? Of those that were hospitalised with Covid, were these tested on admission or after? Were they admitted because of Covid and to be treated Solely for Covid?

I’m not clear on it. Can’t find in data either.

Thank you
CM
X

183680 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Country Mumkin, 4, #648 of 2450 🔗

From here: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/about-data#england-1

“Daily and cumulative numbers of patients admitted to hospital Numbers of patients admitted to hospital with COVID-19 on or up to the reporting date.
Data are not reported by each nation every day and Scotland’s data are only published weekly. The definitions are not consistent between the four nations (see below).
England England data include people admitted to hospital who tested positive for COVID-19 in the 14 days prior to admission, and those who tested positive in hospital after admission .”

So these are not “Covid patients” at all, and the figures being used will simply reflect the proportion of false positives in the tests being used, and the general level of virus prevalence in the population, and the level of overall hospital admissions = meaningless as a measure of any notional extra burden imposed by covid patients.

Consider that ALL patients admitted to hospital for whatever reason are being tested, not just those with symptoms. In March/April, only those with symptoms were being tested. So comparisons are meaningless and mendacious.

183705 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Julian, 3, #649 of 2450 🔗

All statistics are now presented in such a way as to make the Covid threat seem as great as possible.

183746 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Julian, #650 of 2450 🔗

Ah good. Thanks Julian. As I thought.

So the analysis of hospitalisations up and down getting better or worse is a bit meaningless. Almost a distraction. By analysing it and reporting on it, we are feeding into the narrative in my mind. What do you think?

Thanks CM x

183683 ▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Country Mumkin, #651 of 2450 🔗

.

183687 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #652 of 2450 🔗

See Awkward Git’s post below, about 47 minutes ago.

183719 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Margaret, 1, #653 of 2450 🔗

And on deaths, here’s an extract from guidance on completing death certificates:

Without diagnostic proof, if appropriate and to avoid delay, medical practitioners can circle ‘2’ in the MCCD (“information from post-mortem may be available later”) or tick Box B on the reverse of the MCCD for ante-mortem investigations. For example, if before death the patient had symptoms typical of COVID-19 infection, but the test result has not been received , it would be satisfactory to give ‘COVID-19’ as the cause of death, tick Box B and then share the test result when it becomes available. In the circumstances of there being no swab, it is satisfactory to apply clinical judgement.

There’s an older document that I can’t find right now, that reading between the lines, it basically said “Bang ’em through, just put Covid. Don’t involve a coroner unless you really have to”.

183739 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #654 of 2450 🔗

They also dropped the requirements for:

  • 1 doctor who had been treating you and knew the case to sign the death certificate
  • a 2nd independent doctor to verify the cause of death and to sign the death certificate independently
  • for any doctor who is signing the death certificate to actually know the patient and their history, it could be any doctor who was picked at random anywhere in the country and asked to sign the death certificate on a verbal from where the person died – all in the S.I.
183735 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Margaret, #655 of 2450 🔗

Thanks. Can’t seem to find it but will keep looking 👍🏼

183736 ▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, #656 of 2450 🔗

Actually maybe it’s the one I replied to!

183875 ▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Country Mumkin, #657 of 2450 🔗

It was the post where AG spoke to 4 NHS workers from Liverpool calling out what is happening there.

183721 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #658 of 2450 🔗

Far less worried than we should be about all the empty beds and operating theatres

183649 Lms23, replying to Lms23, #659 of 2450 🔗

GBD direct link was there at the top of the page on Google yesterday, but gone again today.
Those algorithms have been very busy….

183670 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #661 of 2450 🔗

And try this search engine:

https://duckduckgo.com

183656 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 1, #662 of 2450 🔗

Have a close look at this updated treatment/prophylaxis scheme which seemed to have been used for VIPs and the reason for Trumps quick rebound!

From Univ of Virginia. Very easy visualized and easy to follow

https://www.evms.edu/media/evms_public/departments/internal_medicine/Marik-Covid-Protocol-Summary.pdf

183698 ▶▶ calchas, replying to swedenborg, #663 of 2450 🔗

Swedenborg,

there has been a great deaal of discussion as to whether ‘the virus’ has been isolated or not.

What do you know about this?

183708 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to calchas, 2, #664 of 2450 🔗

It depends what you mean by isolated. As I understand it:
Has the virus been seen under an electron microscope? Then the answer is no. Has the viral RNA been sequenced? maybe

183748 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to p02099003, 1, #665 of 2450 🔗

Guy153 has posted pictures here of the virus taken through an electron microscope in the past

184036 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to calchas, #666 of 2450 🔗

I rely on information from Francois Balloux that this virus has been isolated and grown in viral culture and Guy123 confirmed this. That is not contradicting that PCR tests are especially prone to problems in surveillance etc, false pos etc and very strange that viral cultures are not more done in hospital cases especially in hospitalized patient to exclude co-infection etc. Not being a virologist won’t go into discussion but Covid-19 exists but the handling of it is the main problem.

183973 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to swedenborg, #667 of 2450 🔗

Thanks swedenborg. Dr Marik’s Sepsis Protocol is well known in certain circles and is very effective in saving limbs and lives if patients are treated with it soon after getting to the hospital. Marik Sepsis Protocol Cocktail : Vitamin C, Thiamin (Vitamin B1) and Hydrocortisone. All given intravenously. https://medcraveonline.com/JACCOA/JACCOA-10-00362.pdf

The link you provided is the Marik Covid Protocol (Critical Care Covid-19 Management protocol) . This protocol is highly recommended and should be given to those people that are severely affected by Covid. This will reduce time in hospital and deaths. https://www.evms.edu/media/evms_public/departments/internal_medicine/Marik-Covid-Protocol-Summary.pdf (published again for easier reading)

Sadly the NHS do not use these protocols for either Sepsis or Covid which means that people will die unnecessary or will require expensive long term care. Interestingly the WHO has put vitamin C on its ‘verboten’ list and therefore Doctors that use this are persecuted and newspapers, social media companies and internet search engines censor articles/videos that contains this information

184069 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Victoria, 1, #668 of 2450 🔗

There is huge amount of hypocrisy. Mr Project Fear himself, Dr Fauci , has been on Vitamin D since half a year. In the prophylaxis recommendation Vit C,Vit D,zinc and Quercetin can be bought in any health shop. If these drugs were given to all long term residents and all over 70 (Melatonin might be more problematic as well as Famitidin (Pepcid) but this is sold over the counter in other countries and is an old fashioned anti gastric acid drug but perhaps these two medical drugs not useful in mass prophylaxis),what would be the cost? Peanuts compared to the 12 billion pound fiasco called track and trace.

183665 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 6, #669 of 2450 🔗

440 thousand have now signed the Great Barrington Declaration.

https://gbdeclaration.org/view-signatures/

183712 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to Nick Rose, #670 of 2450 🔗

amazing! I think it was at around 312 thousand when I signed it on Sunday

183756 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Janice21, 1, #671 of 2450 🔗

Hopefully the numbers will continue to rise. Hiding it was not a good idea, lol.

183781 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #672 of 2450 🔗

Has Barbra Streisand signed it yet?

183960 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Mr Dee, #673 of 2450 🔗

Very good, should have more thumbs up.

183668 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 14, #674 of 2450 🔗

Happy 50,000 day! Wasn’t Oct 13th the date on Dumb and Dumber’s graph when we would have so many ‘cases’? I’m just popping out to see the bodies in the streets…

183678 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #675 of 2450 🔗

Wonderful pointing-outerage. I feel a round robin of happy 50,000 to contacts coming on. I might even shed a few as I do!

183682 stefarm, 13, #676 of 2450 🔗

It’s wonderful how those in charge have divided a nation into small bubbles of 6 shrinking their world to a tiny little speck. It enables up to 6 people to completely isolate themselves from their neighbours, peers and fellow humans thus making them completely selfish and blinkered to the needs of other people and their community.

I’m not even sure anymore if it’s communism, facism or satamism. I do know it’s inhuman but we must all bow to the deity that is known as the NHS, however this god will not save us.

We can only save ourselves, brothers sisters, loved ones and fellow humans we will not be saved by those who rule us.

Eat out to help out, bollocks.

What about eyes and ears open to help out.

I don’t know, tyranny neatly packaged into a nice little deliveroo take away to be eaten watching Ant and Dec on a Saturday night.

183685 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 5, #677 of 2450 🔗

>>>>At the Downing Street press briefing yesterday, NHS National Medical Director Professor Stephen Powis said there are more coronavirus patients in hospitals now than when the UK went into lockdown in March.<<<

There’s an implication here isn’t there? Isn’t it implied things will go as they went back in March?

This is measurable.

On the 23rd March, lockdown day, there were 3,097 Covid patients in England – a week later they were 9,498.

As of yesterday there were 3,665 patients in England. So, will there be 10,000 Covid patients this time next week?

The measures announced yesterday can’t affect next week’s figures as they won’t have had time to get “baked in” – to use the new terminology.

I would aver another “graph of doom’ frightener has been enacted. We’ll know in a week’s time.

(N.B. figures for the whole of the UK on two of the dates I’ve referred to are not available on https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk but they are for England – hence my referring to England alone.)

183744 ▶▶ Mayo, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #678 of 2450 🔗

On the 23rd March, lockdown day, there were 3,097 Covid patients in England – a week later they were 9,498.
As of yesterday there were 3,665 patients in England. So, will there be 10,000 this time next week?

What you need to do is look at what was happening just before and just after March 23rd – and I suggest October 9th. Why Oct 9th? Because that’s when cases were 3090, i.e. about the same as on March 23rd.

However, on MARCH 20TH (3 days before 23rd) there were 1542 in hospital so it doubled in 3 days, On MARCH 26th (3 days after 23rd) the number in hospital was 5045 – an increase of over 60%.

On October 6th there were 2783
On October 12th there were 3665

So there was an increase of 11% to Oct 9th and an increase of 19% in the following 3 days after Oct 9th. The rate of increase is much lower in October than in March.

183757 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Mayo, #679 of 2450 🔗

Very illuminating. Thanks!

183869 ▶▶▶ bucky99, replying to Mayo, #680 of 2450 🔗

Context is important, gives a more rounded view.

I wonder though if the definition of a ‘Covid patient’ still holds true between March & Oct though – much of March would still have relied on clinical diagnosis, whereas Oct has a slightly broader brush approach thanks to PCR tests.

183892 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to bucky99, 2, #681 of 2450 🔗

I March, limited testing capacity meant that only patients presenting with probably Covid symptoms were being tested. This would mean that all of the recorded admissions at the time would have been actual Covid cases (+/- a very occasional bad ‘flu with a false positive). It’s completely different now, with every admission having a much higher chance of already having been tested in the past few days (with a much higher percentage chance of a positive being false) and every admission for anything being tested on arrival and regularly thereafter (again, with a false positive risk). I don’t think that the hospital admissions numbers are completely meaningless, in that the direction of the increase is almost certainly indicative, but I strongly suspect that the detail means next to nothing. Of the whatever-the-number is of supposed Covid patients in hospital, how many are actually being treated for Covid as opposed to being treated for something completely unrelated and discovered to have Covid. How many are outpatients/A&E admissions who happen to test positive?

With the testing, as far as I can tell, all you can see is the direction of travel, but not the actual numbers. Hospitalisations are the same. ICU may be slightly more meaningful. Ventilator beds are probably a decent indication in that these people probably have at least a respiratory disease, even if it’s not actually Covid. Excess capacity at least means something, because it gives an indication of the risk of the system failing (whatever the reasons). Covid deaths are largely meaningless because of the old “of or with” question. Total mortality is very much the only number that actually means anything at all.

183928 ▶▶▶▶▶ bucky99, replying to matt, #682 of 2450 🔗

Agreed.

Would also be sensible to use discharge rates, to help give the full picture.

183932 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to bucky99, #683 of 2450 🔗

as mentioned elsewhere on today’s comments, all admissions are getting tested and anyone showing a positive test result that is then admitted is counted as a covid admission.

As awkward git mentions in his posting anecdotal info from medics indicate this will include people admitted for broken legs, burns etc who do not show covid symptoms

And that also applies then to death recording.

So the contexts of the figures we are comparing for March and now are completely different.

And as i write this some government statistician on BBC talking about tests and hospitalisations doubling. Its all bullshit

183970 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Mayo, #684 of 2450 🔗

I was just going to look at the figures before March 23rd and compare to them to the last few days – for I was sure they would be in no way similar. But you have done the job for me – much thanks.

The comparison thus made by Prof. Powis twixt patient numbers now and patient numbers on the March 23rd was very slippery – and he will know this himself.

We are in to scare tactics territory again as with the Whitty/Valance graph of doom. All in a good cause they doubtless believe themselves – but it gives me no confidence in them.

Or do they do what they do because the have a myopic view of the problem? Mortality rates must be kept down at all costs – and one of those costs is using dubious comparisons and predictions which aren’t predictions?

183686 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #685 of 2450 🔗

Thanks to whoever posted Handiwank’s fourth industrial revolution speeches yesterday (too lazy to look back and see who it was).

Reading this I decided to change tack on who to get a treason case going so started some more research – it certainly looking like a case of treason under the “adherents” definition, just need to find out who in the UK actually investigates the crime of treason – no-one seems to know for definite.

Found this link:

http://thefourthgroup.org/events/political-entrepreneurs-call-for-a-new-politics-for-the-fourth-industrial-revolution/

Lots of the “fourth industrial revolution” stuff kicked off in 2017 but it seems this was “the first” in 2016:

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/01/the-fourth-industrial-revolution-what-it-means-and-how-to-respond/ – our old friends

Will keep digging and post when I do finally find out who to contact for an investigation.

As a start I’ve sent the link to the Amnesty care home report and the US DoJ request for information to the states with the highest care home death rates to the MPs who voted NO last month saying I hope they read this report as it vindicates their position and they hold get all their colleagues to read it and explain their position now.

183726 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Awkward Git, #686 of 2450 🔗

Traitors would not investigate themselves. “None dare call it treason etc”

183762 ▶▶ Arkansas, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #687 of 2450 🔗

WEF founder Klaus Schwab’s first book on this (‘The Fourth Industrial Revolution’) was published in January 2016; this July he published ‘Covid-19: The Great Reset’. They’re both worth a read, I think, because its vision is a bit more mental than you might initially assume from articles and essays.

183782 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Arkansas, 1, #688 of 2450 🔗

They are bit like the Agenda 21/2030 documents.

All nicely put until you read what it means, not what it apparently says.

Hidden in plain sight.

184634 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Arkansas, #689 of 2450 🔗

I scrawled , fuckin’ mad shit on just about every page!

183701 JohnMac, 7, #690 of 2450 🔗

I still think “collaborators” is better than any of that lot.

183704 swedenborg, 1, #691 of 2450 🔗

A very interesting twitterthread about C-19 mortality in Sweden explaining the specific excess deaths in demographic groups.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1314263092675706881.html

183713 HelzBelz, replying to HelzBelz, 15, #692 of 2450 🔗

James Delingpole made a great point re masks on the latest London Calling podcast – Do Not Pass Go. That is regarding people who are lockdown sceptics in every respect, but still think it’s OK to wear a mask because hey, it’s only a mask. He equated this to ‘It’s only a yellow star’.

Mass civil disobedience is what is needed. I think most of us on here do our bit, but there are just not enough of us! 🙁

183741 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to HelzBelz, 1, #693 of 2450 🔗

What’s worse is Tesco’s own brand of lanyard that they expect exempt customers to wear in store so that everyone knows they have a “hidden disability”, hidden being the key word. Or worse, a proposal I read that schools expect exempt children to wear an armband if they can’t wear a mask.

183767 ▶▶▶ jakehadlee, replying to Mark H, 1, #694 of 2450 🔗

Jesus Christ!

183841 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Mark H, 2, #695 of 2450 🔗

Heard a story where in GERMANY exempt children wear a yellow armband at one school. The 11 year old pupil is disgusted by this.

184261 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to HelzBelz, #696 of 2450 🔗

James Delingpole owes quite a lot of people an apology for being such a c*** to people in the past that he disagreed with. Now he’s on board, suddenly, everyone must believe what he says.

Go and do one James.

“Right about everything” – my arse.

183717 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 2, #697 of 2450 🔗

My new term for the official strategy is Coerce, comply, control-since those in the know seem to favour 3 word slogans.

Or, as nouns : Coercion, compliance, control.

Says it all to me .

As for ‘baked in’; reminds me of ‘fake tan’.

184325 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to wendyk, #698 of 2450 🔗

That slogan would be great on a poster!

184373 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Carrie, #699 of 2450 🔗

Thank you Carrie

183718 UK Smallholdings, #700 of 2450 🔗
183723 pmdl, 12, #701 of 2450 🔗

As a lockdown sceptic and somebody who has never worn a mask i now know how the conscientious objectors felt during the wars! I am waiting for some masked Karens to come up to me and stick a white feather on my jacket.

183724 Darryl, replying to Darryl, 11, #702 of 2450 🔗

I suspect the UK Covid vaccination program is very close as The Times has stepped up the big pharma propaganda again.

There was a comment piece by two people who no doubt stand to benefit financially pushing the idea that everyone that takes the vaccine should be ‘given’ £200 by the government. I find this quite interesting as the Conservative party doesn’t have any of their own money to bribe people with, so anyone with any common sense will see that they are being bribed using borrowed money that they or others will ‘repay’ in the future – so basically another scam.

If they had some magical cure that would prevent me getting motor neurone disease, dementia or cancer I would join the queue. But I certainly won’t be bullied by the social engineers in The Times calling me a anti-vaxxer just because I won’t be rushing to get a vaccine for something with a rounded up 100% survival rate for my age category.

Expect months of emotional manipulation, propaganda and blackmail ahead.

183745 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Darryl, 2, #703 of 2450 🔗

Wonder if that’ll be the next Dishi Rishi deal.

183773 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to DRW, 4, #704 of 2450 🔗

As it turns out the Conservatives magic money tree is bigger than Labours.

183808 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Darryl, 3, #705 of 2450 🔗

Except that it isn’t a magic money tree. We’re just stealing tomorrow’s prosperity for today.

183893 ▶▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Nick Rose, #706 of 2450 🔗

Creating endless digital currency with out producing any extra goods and services should and probably will end in disaster – I am sure someone at Downing Street will say ‘this time is different’.

183950 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Nick Rose, #707 of 2450 🔗

Yes, our grandchildren were supposed to pay the bill while we had fun spending their inheritance but it looks like it might be us this time, bastards.

183785 ▶▶ Jo, replying to Darryl, 5, #708 of 2450 🔗

Actually, relatively speaking, I quite like that idea. Anyone stupid enough to accept £200 to be a guinea pig can have it, and hopefully take the pressure off the rest of us. And we know for sure there are plenty of stupid people out there. If anyone hasn’t read Corona: False Alarm? or Mike Yeadon’s letter about the vaccine (he was furious) – then they are worth a read.

183906 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Jo, 1, #709 of 2450 🔗

I get the strong impression we won’t be allowed to return to ‘old normal’ in any case, they have decided a ‘new normal’ is required and people have fallen for it. You are correct £200 will have people queuing round the block for Dr Bill Gates vaccine – should buy us some time for any health effects to show up (if they aren’t covered up).

184330 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Darryl, #710 of 2450 🔗

That is interesting – not seen it reported anywhere else..

Problem is, a lot of people might go for it – can be a lot of money for a family, if vaccine means you can move about society freely.

One question though: how will covid wombles know who has had the vaccine? Some virtue signalling badge?

183728 stefarm, 3, #711 of 2450 🔗

It’s quite timely as I’ve just finished reading Rosemary’s baby by Ira Levin.

A story of a young woman who has satans baby, an example of mind control and gaslighting.

Maybe we should call it Boris’s baby.

183730 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #712 of 2450 🔗

Meanwhile in China

CGTN: Beijing Music Festival opens with anti-epidemic symphony.
https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-10-12/Beijing-Intl-Music-Festival-opens-with-anti-epidemic-symphony-UvGXn3sylO/index.html

183737 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #713 of 2450 🔗

They’ve really done a number on us.

183780 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Mark H, 4, #714 of 2450 🔗

The chinese people have already been through and are still subjected to the horrors that await us. Such is the nature of the universe that if we turn a blind eye to the suffering of other at the hands of a tyrannical bunch of murderers then eventually we will suffer the same.

183943 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Mark H, #715 of 2450 🔗

Yup, thought we’d have the upper hand against CCP because corruption and repression would eventually be its undoing but really not sure now.

183742 Jim, replying to Jim, 1, #716 of 2450 🔗

I have a job interview coming up next week and I don’t want to wear a mask.
I didn’t write down that I have any disabilities on my application so can anyone advise me what I can say if I’m pressed about mask wearing and whether I should have indicated I have a disability exemption?
Thank you!

183751 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Jim, 1, #717 of 2450 🔗

Just put a scarf round your face. It’s Autumn. It’s cold.

183770 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Jim, 3, #718 of 2450 🔗

From the government website:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own

Exemption cards or badges Some people may feel more comfortable showing something that says they do not have to wear a face covering. This could be in the form of an exemption card, badge or even a home-made sign.
This is a personal choice, and is not necessary in law.
If you would like to use an exemption card you can use the PDF attachments on this page.
Those who have an age, health or disability reason to not wear a face covering should not be routinely asked to provide any written evidence of this. Written evidence includes exemption cards.

I do not think they should be even asking you about mask-wearing at an interview, according to the letter of the government advice I’ve attached.

Those who have an age, health or disability reason to not wear a face covering should not be routinely asked to provide any written evidence of this.”

However, if it comes up, print out the govt exemption, to show them.

I’ve found that if I politely phone or e-mail beforehand, and explain that I cannot wear a mask, organisations are very considerate and accepting.

Good luck with the interview.

183792 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Mr Dee, #719 of 2450 🔗

They might be even more considerate if you point out that they are liable to a fine of up to £9,000 if they refuse. You won’t get the job, but at least you will have made your point. 🙂

183812 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Mabel Cow, 4, #720 of 2450 🔗

I mentioned that fine to the manager of a local opticians whose staff were refusing to allow my wife to enter without a mask. They soon fell over each other to allow her in unmasked.

183777 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Jim, 4, #721 of 2450 🔗

I have created a document to help when challenged. Available in various formats here .

183936 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Mabel Cow, #722 of 2450 🔗

Thanks, handy.

183788 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Jim, 6, #723 of 2450 🔗

Being caused severe distress by wearing a mask is not a disability but it’s a perfectly valid excuse to not wear one.

183824 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to leggy, 6, #724 of 2450 🔗

This is enough to cause me severe distress about mask-wearing:

https://www.globalresearch.ca/medical-doctor-warns-bacterial-pneumonias-rise-mask-wearing/5725848

“I’m seeing patients that have facial rashes, fungal infections, bacterial infections. Reports coming from my colleagues, all over the world, are suggesting that the bacterial pneumonias are on the rise.”

183934 ▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Mr Dee, 6, #725 of 2450 🔗
  1. These people will be admitted to hospital to treat their mask-related infection.
  2. They will catch SARS-CoV-2 whilst in hospital.
  3. Those who subsequently die will be recorded as death-with-COVID-19 .
  4. The media will call for more mask wearing to combat the rise in COVID-19 deaths.
  5. Go to step 1.
184211 ▶▶▶▶▶ peter charles, replying to Mabel Cow, #726 of 2450 🔗

spoken like a programmer

184269 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to peter charles, #727 of 2450 🔗

Busted. 🙂

183880 ▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Jim, 2, #728 of 2450 🔗

Did they ask you on your job application about having a disability? I believe they’re not allowed to, beyond asking whether you might need additional resources or whatever to do the job (a higher desk for your wheelchair, perhaps), and that would only come after they’ve offered you the job.

So no, they cannot challenge you about not wearing a mask. As a matter of courtesy, you might wear a lanyard to stave off queries … if you want the job, of course.

184130 ▶▶▶ Jim, replying to Miss Owl, #729 of 2450 🔗

Yes, they always ask about disability stuff. I just want to know a short, sharp answer in case they ask me. It’s only for a blimmin’ cleaning job, but I’d like to go prepared!

184153 ▶▶▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Jim, 1, #730 of 2450 🔗

But Jim, they’re NOT ALLOWED to ask you about disabilities. Take a look at this ACAS page:

https://archive.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=5620#:~:text=Most%20employers%20know%20that%20they,discriminated%20against%20because%20of%20disability .

Just wear your lanyard, to be courteous. If they ask, then remind them gently that you don’t have to disclose, and that your non-mask-wearingness would not affect your ability to do the job.

And ‘only’ cleaning? My dear chap, you’re a key worker! People will clap for you!

183755 Steeve, replying to Steeve, 4, #731 of 2450 🔗

My Stat of the day England & Wales ending 2nd October

All case mortality 390 higher than 5 year average

Deaths in private homes 725 higher than 5 year average

183821 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Steeve, 2, #732 of 2450 🔗

Data always needs context.

The 5-year average for a single week isn’t a very good one, particularly if the immediately preceding years have been been at the low end of the distribution of yearly mortality.

Essentially, mortality is running at unexceptional, but fairly low, levels currently.

The relative level of deaths at home is probably significant, however.

183838 ▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to RickH, #733 of 2450 🔗

Morning Rick – Sunny where you are?

183868 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Steeve, 1, #734 of 2450 🔗

Hi Steeve – South Yorkshire : the ‘fucked’ area. Thus the obsession with data!

Just been entering up today’s all-cause figures to see where the actuality is. Answer – as you will know – nowhere ‘unprecedented’.

183890 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to RickH, #735 of 2450 🔗

Thanks for all your inputs!

To be honest I did not try to look up where the actuality is – I know you are not a fan but so far running total for September is 291 below 5 year average – back of a fag packet calculation.

Big question is why are so many dying at home (not always a bad thing) ?

I suspect Fear is a big factor.

183965 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Steeve, 1, #736 of 2450 🔗

Yes – I think it’s both fear of going into hospital, and the barriers to it.

I’m a ‘frequent flier’ – I have to have regular maintenance as a day patient, so I’m used to hospitals, respect the individuals I deal with and have had, overall, excellent treatment.

But even I find the environment now uninviting, with masks everywhere etc.

183759 Leemc23, replying to Leemc23, 31, #737 of 2450 🔗

I wanted to be constructive so I have written, in 10 minutes or so, a simple guide to managing a pandemic in the U.K. I hope it helps Dorris Johnson. I can tell he has no such guide so it’s unreasonable to throw him to the lions, and for now he can go in with the tigers.

Message management: be positive and honest. Don’t doom monger and claim/speculate a 1-3% fatality rate. It will not do any good.

Initial response: encourage Social Distancing and hygiene: encourage it. Don’t mandate. Understand your limits of control. This can be really good in getting your modelling number below #1.

Modelling: understand what this is. It’s mathematically sound, but real life useless. Never make it part of your policy response. It’s a “what if” projection. Similar to “what if I stuck a red hot poker up my arse, would my eyes pop out ?”

Lockdown: never do it. It’s an irrational move. Has only ever been tried in a hard communist state. And only the most selfish of people will support it. It benefits the richer people and throws the poor to the lions. If you care. Don’t ever even suggest you will do it.

As things improve: Focus on the improvements. If the IFR is proved to be very low, now is the time to say so. And if even the worst affected groups have an 80% change at full recovery, say so. Compare it to Ebloa to give context and say “thank goodness” this is really not as bad as if can be.

Only enforce what you absolutely have to enforce. Never put in place “faith based” interventions like face coverings and then fine people who do not follow your (mostly religious) mantra. Never mandate.

If people wish to lobby you on such measures remind said people of the dangers of single use non recycled materials and that this is what face coverings mostly are and they will indirectly kill, use a teenager from Sweden to help (avoid the trap of saying Sweden’s approach is wrong but the worlds expert on climate danger is a teenager from Sweden. Someone will notice you are being selective)

Recognise you have absolutely no place ever in domestic lives of anyone. Never assume you have the power to cross into private homes in ANY circumstances. Ever. Unless immediate and clear danger awaits even the police should not enter private homes. What the population does is up to them. If they get sick. They have paid for health care to help them recover.

Re the police. Leave them out of it. They can’t turn up to house burglary so suggesting they will rock up to a tea party of 7 people is insane nonsense.

Stop publishing every bit of information possible. It does not help to do so without context. If you must publish do so with context or not at all.

Never let unelected and unaccountable people appear on media platforms with made up speculation. You would not let a faith healer go on TV to warn you of the dangers of life, recognise there is no difference.

Never ever be overly optimistic (vaccine is coming) and then be overly pessimistic (might never be one) this will unfortunately make you look foolish, unbalanced and potentially insane. And will ensure you are at best a pillock.

When the president of the US gets sick and recovers quickly (and well) use this type of an example as a huge positive for the world. It’s the best example possible that full recovery is the most likely outcome. Don’t waste this opportunity.

Never take expert advice without considering what incentives are behind the given advice. For example, never let a communist party member be your behavioural science guru. Never let left wing or right wing opinion sway your need to balance.

If you are to have an NHS make sure it’s never ever over ran. You can achieve this with focused funding, better support for long term lifestyle choices and control over the numbers of people using your system – note: never cut ICU capacity year on year for 30+ years.

And most importantly. Never panic. This will ensure u turns are very few. Leadership and courage is necessary at all times. Never be the type of leader than hides in a fridge the day before an election. Even if it’s not picked up at the time. Being a coward will shine through.

Good luck.

183766 ▶▶ annie, replying to Leemc23, 5, #738 of 2450 🔗

You’re talking sense.
But you’re talking to a brainless cowardly moron.

183779 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Leemc23, 2, #739 of 2450 🔗

I don’t suppose you fancy standing as an MP. We need more that can talk sense like this.

183795 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Leemc23, #740 of 2450 🔗

Take it the other advisers out-voted you?

183796 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to Leemc23, #741 of 2450 🔗

This is brilliant! And funny in parts. I want to send it now to everyone I know and ALL MPs!

183776 swedenborg, 4, #742 of 2450 🔗

If Sweden is a dirty word for SAGE group and Johnson why not look to Holland?
These are the excellent rules for children and teenagers, easy to understand and Personally not for the 1,5m distancing in University students but everything else sensible and easy to apply.

Goes without saying there are no masks in Dutch schools!

https://twitter.com/karol/status/1315845715755638784/photo/1

183789 JamesDrebin, replying to JamesDrebin, 6, #744 of 2450 🔗

I never paid much attention to this song in the past, but upon listening to the lyrics, I found myself LITERALLY SCREAMING along to it in the car this morning:

(“Uprising”, © MUSE, 2009)

The paranoia is in bloom

The PR transmissions will resume

They’ll try to push drugs that keep us all dumbed down

And hope that we will never see the truth around

(So come on)

Another promise, another seed

Another packaged lie to keep us trapped in greed

And all the green belts wrapped around our minds

And endless red tape to keep the truth confined

(So come on)

They will not force us

They will stop degrading us

They will not control us

We will be victorious

(So come on)

Interchanging mind control

Come let the revolution take its toll

If you could flick a switch and open your third eye

You’d see that we should never be afraid to die

(So come on)

Rise up and take the power back

It’s time the fat cats had a heart attack

You know that their time is coming to an end

We have to unify and watch our flag ascend

(So come on)

They will not force us

They will stop degrading us

They will not control us

We will be victorious

(So come on)

Of course the original target back in 2009 was likely “them greedy capitalists”, but I substituted mentions of greed for “fear”, and it pretty well became an anthem for my feelings right now.

183836 ▶▶ VickyA, replying to JamesDrebin, 1, #745 of 2450 🔗

Matthew Bellamy has always been very prophetic in my opinion. And I always thought of that song as one of pushing back against bureaucracy and control. Drones is full of good stuff too (Drill Sargent and Psycho) for COVID Marshalls for instance.

183844 ▶▶ chaos, replying to JamesDrebin, 3, #746 of 2450 🔗

I do wonder if they put anything in the water or medicines… people are incredibly thick. If you could just knock IQ down ten points on average you could still have bright bods for engineering etc but it would be enough to lessen questioning and increase compliance overall. Or maybe it’s just a consequence of the wrong people having kids. Like the scum burglar and county lines dealer shithead Barry that used to live next to me – his kid was still in nappies aged 6 and he still wet the bed. Just like the mask wearers. Bada boom tish..

184028 ▶▶▶ JamesDrebin, replying to chaos, #747 of 2450 🔗

Speaking of dumbing-down theories, I do have a totally speculative scenario in mind: I wondered whether the contents of the upcoming (largely unnecessary, implausible) C19 inoculation might just be a primer drug that actually protects against something else. Something coming that has been engineered to be FAR nastier than WuFlu.

I mean, when I think about the idea that no effective inoculation for a coronavirus could be knocked up in less than 10 years, let alone 18 months, it’s possible that it’s either going to be a simple placebo-for-profit, or something pre-designed for a very different purpose…

Remember how William the Kindly Billionaire warned us (on the topic of future pandemics) that we’d all “take notice of the next one” with a smirk?

Well, imagine the plan. If you can get all of the people who are most susceptible to propaganda and emotional control dutifully taking this miracle drug to a pandemic that clearly doesn’t exist as advertised, they will be the ones protected from and preserved through the advent of any scheduled, genuine bioholocaust.

But why would such a deed be necessary? Because a smoothly-running Great Reset requires an intelligence/scepticism filter to clear out potential problems. We can’t have any pesky free thinkers floating about! No, it is the credulous masses who are exactly the kind of controllable folk that would be ideal for the docile, tax-unit class that will be needed to fuel the reset utopia.

A horrible choice then presents itself. If the above were true, would taking the needle be the only way to survive the filter in order to mount a rebellion?

But no, I don’t personally think the above is what is actually going on, it’s just a fun thought experiment to ponder. Or to lie awake at night sweating over.

183863 ▶▶ leggy, replying to JamesDrebin, 1, #748 of 2450 🔗

Listen to Simulation Theory. It could have been written for what’s happening now.

183941 ▶▶▶ JamesDrebin, replying to leggy, #749 of 2450 🔗

Thanks, will check it out!

183790 Mrs issedoff, 2, #750 of 2450 🔗

I was thinking that if I did away with all those responsible for this evil tyranny, I would be caught and sent to prison. It nearly seems worth while because let’s face it, we are all prisoners to one degree or another under this regime. Anyone know any good hitmen?!. I will now add that this is a joke, not a funny one some might say, no less funny that what this load of evil psycopaths are doing to this country and its citizens.

183794 Janice21, replying to Janice21, 19, #751 of 2450 🔗

Took my kids to a mums and tots group yesterday morning which has just restarted last week. Made sure I had my lanyard in case the place was full of masked folk (which I was apprehensive about). Got there and apart from hand sanitiser at the entrance and noting down names and numbers (which they previously done for H & S reasons anyway), there was ZERO masks! Even the ladies bringing out the snacks and juice for kids and making teas/coffees for the parents were not wearing masks. It was a lovely escape away from Covid crap.
Then got home to an email from the kids creche (hey attend a few days a week)with new measures, one of which is to wear masks when collecting and dropping off , which is done OUTSIDE in a garden area. Nonsense. Wore my lanyard when dropping them off this morning. The staff don’t wear masks thankfully so kids aren’t subject to having to see half covered faces.
Oh and also had a fun night out with 4 friends on Saturday where we weren’t asked if we were from 2 households NOR asked for personal details for track and trace. Very little mask compliance or enforcement. I think most places are just happy to have the business. This is in Belfast.

183803 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Janice21, 1, #752 of 2450 🔗

Lovely to hear. Thanks for sharing on this sunny Autumn day!

183804 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Janice21, 5, #753 of 2450 🔗

Excellent. I think Stephen Nolan attempts to fuel the no mask hatred is back firing somewhat. There is hope.

183822 ▶▶▶ Janice21, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #754 of 2450 🔗

What a vulgar man he is!

184030 ▶▶▶ Klein, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #755 of 2450 🔗

Thats what I found too – he made a real show of himself and people didn’t like it. There were some great calls in to his radio show.

183861 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Janice21, #756 of 2450 🔗

How’s Kellys’ Cellars these days?

183797 BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 5, #757 of 2450 🔗

I posted this late last night. Worth sharing again. The BBC openly state that 95% of CV-19 deaths had flu and pneumonia also listed.

https://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/10/12/latest-news-160/#comment-183031

There is no way to tell the difference so they all go on the death cert.

183856 ▶▶ leggy, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #758 of 2450 🔗

That’s not quite what they say is it?I read it as simply that 95% of people who had both on their death certs died “from” covid. It’s a bit of a vague statistic without seeing the numbers.

183915 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to leggy, #759 of 2450 🔗

I’m equally confused. I think it means it could be any cause but with PCR King, it goes as Covid-19

183798 NorthumbrianNomad, 19, #760 of 2450 🔗

I don’t watch scheduled TV and I don’t care about celebrities, so I have never until today had occasion to notice Piers Morgan talking about the pandemic. What a pillock. What an absolutely insufferable, blubbering foghorn of idiocy. I said something about not being rude about people yesterday, but in his case, I make a gigantic, flatulent exception.

183800 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 3, #762 of 2450 🔗

About Test Track and Trace

 https://twitter.com/patrick_kidd/status/1315938968492482560

It’s not just Britain that struggles with covid tracing: France has ditched its tracing app after only 500 notifications to contacts were sent out from positive tests since June. The trouble with tracing is people don’t want to use it. Even the French PM hadn’t downloaded it

https://twitter.com/BallouxFrancois/status/1315954502252613633

Track-Trace-Isolate (TTI) can work if there is trust in the authorities and generous compensations. Compliance can also be achieved through illiberal coercion and threats. If those conditions are not met, it is akin to a drunkard looking for their lost keys under a streetlight.
https://twitter.com/BallouxFrancois/status/1315833912283877377

South Korea might be a good test case whether a strategy based on ‘test & trace’ can control a sustained C-19 epidemic. The climatic conditions were not particularly conducive for SARS-Cov-2 transmission since the spring, but they are now entering their long, cold, dry winter.

(South Korea reports triple-digit rise in coronavirus cases in six days: KCDA ) Reuters

183816 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to swedenborg, 4, #763 of 2450 🔗

This is blindingly obvious for many of the measures. You need large levels of compliance. That can only be achieved by high levels of trust. That can only be achieved by treating people like adults and not trying nudge them this way and that, by fudging numbers, by changing your rules every two seconds.

Without that your only option is force. Then it’s a questions of what kind of country you live in and the leaders who hold power. It’s obvious what the answer is in Victoria Auz and NZ. China too. Here in the UK its still to be seen.

Last nights push back against full national lockdown was at least somewhat hopeful that there is a line being drawn. That while we’ve given up a lot of our freedom, we may not be willing to countenance the ultimate step.

Small but important point.

183833 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to swedenborg, 5, #764 of 2450 🔗

Track and trace can only work, if ever at the start of a epidemic,by closing off routes of infection.It is useless when a virus is endemic.
It’s very good though if you want to bring in a totalitarian system on the back of it.

183842 ▶▶▶ bucky99, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #765 of 2450 🔗

Exactly – how are they expecting it to work once a virus is endemic? 🤷‍♂️

183879 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to swedenborg, 2, #766 of 2450 🔗

Even the WHO 2019 document says it’s a waste of time.

183805 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #768 of 2450 🔗

BBC strikes again. Bastardising Pratchett now!

Terry Pratchett’s daughter Rhianna Pratchett has said that the forthcoming television adaptation of the late author’s stories about Ankh-Morpork’s City Watch “shares no DNA with my father’s Watch”

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/oct/12/bbc-the-watch-shares-no-dna-with-terry-pratchett-work-daughter-rhianna

183810 ▶▶ Gerry Mandarin, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #769 of 2450 🔗

It’s a woke fest by the sounds of it. As close to Pratchitt as Harry Potter is to Lord of the Rings

183813 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 1, #770 of 2450 🔗

Just spotted this from April.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/apr/28/terry-pratchett-novels-faithful-tv-adaptation-discworld

Looks like it really got beebed! More proof that they’re not to be trusted.

183927 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Gerry Mandarin, #771 of 2450 🔗

And wait till we see what Amazon does with the Lord of the Rings series.

183852 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #772 of 2450 🔗

Well, they haven’t consulted me!

183912 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Cheezilla, #773 of 2450 🔗

I stumbled upon a Huffington Post blog about Good Omens, whingeing about how much of the humour “punches down”. It’s only a matter of time before Gaiman and Pratchett get wokeshafted.

183939 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #774 of 2450 🔗

It shows how lacking in creativity they now are. All they seem capable of now is taking other people’s work and melding it to their political ideology. Hacks. Political Hacks.

183806 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 6, #775 of 2450 🔗

It’s estimated to 100 Billion people have died since humans have been on this Earth, give or take a few billion. Some if not all of these deaths have contributed in some way to what we have today. We have immunity to most things that would otherwise kill us thanks to all that have gone before us.

Would it be fair to say all those deaths were unacceptable in getting us here? If it were possible, should we have tried to save as many of those lives as possible because allowing immunity to develop would result in too many deaths?

So far 1M people have died from this virus. In 100 years time, even if the number was 2M, nobody is going to look back and think anything of the actual number that died. They may possibly discuss how life developed since. It’s possible that they will be in constant fear of infections that aren’t controlled synthetically.

It’s not enough to just focus on the here and now and think that saving every life is all that is important. We have to look at the implications of every action we take and the precedence we set for future generations.

In the meantime, death will still be waiting for everyone.

183917 ▶▶ Kev, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #776 of 2450 🔗

Correction, 1M people are reported to have died “with” Covid, not “from” Covid, a number we will never know.

CDC in US stated 6% of deaths were from Covid only (no other reported co-morbidities), and the figure in Italy is 1%, estimated UK figure is 2%.

Of those Covid only deaths, approximately 90% were over 70 years old.

How many of those reported deaths are supported by corroboratted autopsies is anyones guess.

183930 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Kev, 1, #777 of 2450 🔗

An absolutely crucial point.

183807 calchas, replying to calchas, 17, #778 of 2450 🔗

Further down the thread ‘jb12’ was trying to make the case that deaths resulting from lockdowns manifest only slowly over months and years. I’m reposting my answer here because I think that it is an important point.

Dr. Donal Henderson who led the smallpox eradication effort wrote this:

“Experience has shown that communities faced with epidemics or other adverse events respond best and with the least anxiety when the normal social functioning of the community is least disrupted . Strong political and public health leadership to provide reassurance and to ensure that needed medical care services are provided are critical elements. If either is seen to be less than optimal, a manageable epidemic could move toward catastrophe.”

https://www.aier.org/article/how-a-free-society-deals-with-pandemics-according-to-legendary-epidemiologist-and-smallpox-eradicator-donald-henderson/

This is precisely what haappened in March in Italy.

In Italy when lockdown came in March several interesting things happened.
Firstly, many staff at care homes were from Romania, and as borders closed they decamped practically overnight – wanting to get home, leaving many care homes almost completely bereft of personnel.

The response of the authorities was to transfer many of those in care homes to hospital (spreading infections).

However, at the same time the schools closed, leaving it very difficult for many hospital staff to make arrangements to look after their children, resulting in a shortage of hospital staff.

Remember also we are dealing with a very elderly and vulnerable population, many of whom are dependent on round the clock care and receiving medication at particular times etc. The stress of transfer and of not being able to see close relatives should not be underestimated.

That’s how lockdowns can kill a lot of people quite quickly, because vulnerable people are dependent on a very finely-tuned system and can fall victim to the slightest pertubation.

Medical science had advanced so far that in countries such as Italy – and the UK – many, many people are just on this side of the grave, or indeed have one foot already in it, that it takes little disturbance in their care, for them to fall completely into it.

This is how lockdowns can kill many people quickly.

183839 ▶▶ Rosser, replying to calchas, 2, #779 of 2450 🔗

That’s actually a very very good description of things.

183937 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Rosser, 1, #780 of 2450 🔗

Yes – and it stands up in terms of the data when you examine the role of ‘dry tinder, and look mat the two-year pattern of mortality, which allows some insight into the issue.

183811 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 9, #781 of 2450 🔗

Dr Hillary Jones:”Rule of 6 should be rule of 2″
Can things get any more stupid?

183814 ▶▶ annie, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #782 of 2450 🔗

We keep on asking that…

183815 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #783 of 2450 🔗

What does he propose for children? That they never see or play with another friend again? Or you send your 6-year-olds out on their own to meet a friend?

183845 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #784 of 2450 🔗

Gold plated pratt.

183817 ▶▶ Gerry Mandarin, replying to Fingerache Philip., #785 of 2450 🔗

Why not go for rule of a half!

183819 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to Fingerache Philip., 13, #786 of 2450 🔗

He is an absolute wanker, can not stand him or ever could. His eyes are soulless. He is a poor puppet and disgrace of a ‘Doctor’. Wasn’t he sacked years ago for his womanising? He is vile.

183823 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Janice21, 1, #787 of 2450 🔗

A bad egg

183848 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Janice21, #788 of 2450 🔗

You said it!

183828 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #789 of 2450 🔗

He has to pay for his MBE somehow

183851 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #790 of 2450 🔗

YES Rule of 1 I am a hermit but I do not like the government telling me to be a hermit.

When is the next demonstration?

183867 ▶▶ FlynnQuill, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #791 of 2450 🔗

Top TV collaborator! He is a disgrace to his profession. What happened to the oath of Do No Harm? He should be ashamed of himself.

184046 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to FlynnQuill, 2, #792 of 2450 🔗

Yes, I am hardly a “party animal” but BLOODY WELL LEAVE US ALONE.

183911 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Fingerache Philip., #793 of 2450 🔗

Why not ‘Rule of none’ then keep fining us to water Rishi’s MMT.

184007 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Fingerache Philip., #794 of 2450 🔗

Just goes to show how even educated and (presumably) intelligent people can go so far down the safety-ism logic hole that they lose all touch with reality.

183818 Tom Blackburn, 1, #795 of 2450 🔗

When is the next protest in the North West? I’m thinking a Manchester one would get the most attendees (Liverpool being Tier 3)

183827 James Marker, replying to James Marker, 17, #796 of 2450 🔗

Ivor Cummins in his excellent videos asks the question “why are they doing this”? I would suggest several forces have conspired to prolong lockdown measures. Firstly, there are those who want to preserve the myth that the NHS provides the best health service in the world. The fact is that for several years now the NHS has struggled to cope in winter. A few more Covid cases this year on top of the normal flu admissions might push some hospitals over the brink of collapse – the fear is that people might then wake up and see the NHS myth for what it is. Secondly, some members of SAGE are hell bent on a vaccine solution. That is why they have set out to smear the people behind the Great Barrington declaration. If herd immunity can be achieved naturally (and it can) then the need for a vaccine disappears. Thirdly, leftists in “the blob”, along with their political activist friends in the MSM and big tech companies have jumped on the “pandemic” as an opportunity to usher in an authoritarian nanny state through the backdoor. Essentially, these people want an ant society with themselves on the top of the hill. Sadly, it seems blundering Boris and his hapless cabinet colleagues have fallen into the trap. The upshot is that millions of people are now threatened with unemployment, many life opportunities for young people have been destroyed, fundamental liberties have been take away and we can now expect tens of thousands of extra cancer fatalities in the years to come. I believe the incompetent modelling used to justify the lockdown will eventually be recognized as the biggest scientific scandal in decades. And let’s hope all those responsible will one day be held to account.

183831 ▶▶ calchas, replying to James Marker, 2, #797 of 2450 🔗

I don’t disagree with any of that.

…but it’s not just happening in the UK you know.

183835 ▶▶ chaos, replying to James Marker, 1, #798 of 2450 🔗

DDDuuuuuuuuuurrrrrr! Great reset. Do wake up.

183853 ▶▶ Liam, replying to James Marker, 4, #799 of 2450 🔗

“…an opportunity to usher in an authoritarian nanny state through the backdoor.”

Agreed except there doesn’t seem to be anything backdoor about it in the slightest.

184124 ▶▶▶ James Marker, replying to Liam, #800 of 2450 🔗

Yes, the attempt is blatant, sure enough. What I mean by the term “backdoor” is non-democratic means.

183923 ▶▶ RickH, replying to James Marker, 1, #801 of 2450 🔗

blundering Boris and his hapless cabinet colleagues have fallen into the trap”

Sorry – but I have to fall about laughing at this counter-factual portrayal of the perpetrators as victims. It seem to be a fairly frequent meme for avoiding political reality because it doesn’t suit a prior narrative.

183830 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #802 of 2450 🔗

Essentially SAGE agree with us:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/925856/S0770_NPIs_table__pivot_.pdf…

I’m almost every intervention, they score the non-COVID impact as ‘High’. So why aren’t they going a step further and saying the costs are too high, we cannot continue with these measures?

183857 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #804 of 2450 🔗

On the mask intervention:

Wearing facemasks outside of the house could complement existing government messaging of social responsibility if communicated alongside the effectiveness of masks in protecting others who are not infected. However, there are also a number of issues, risks and potentially harmful behaviours associated with recommending or mandating use of facemasks which could reduce their effectiveness (e.g. misuse, use of ineffective homemade masks). Moreover, it is critical that recommendations are seen to be based on the science and proportionate otherwise the legitimacy of. mask wearing overall will be compromised. Given that the evidence suggests outdoor spread to be very limited this may be seen. as an excessive measure.

183908 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Sarigan, 2, #805 of 2450 🔗

the legitimacy of. mask wearing overall will be compromised.”

But as we know – it was actually compromised from the start.

183924 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to RickH, 7, #806 of 2450 🔗

I wonder who had the devilishly BRILLIANT idea of saying it had to be done for OTHER PEOPLE. Your mask doesn’t protect you, the wearer, but other people’s masks do. Hence selfishness can be re-interpreted as public-spiritedness. And that unleashes the flood of cruel hassling, bullying, snitching and fear that we are cursed with.

183984 ▶▶▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to annie, 2, #807 of 2450 🔗

99% likely to have been comrade Susan Michie.

184162 ▶▶▶▶ kf99, replying to RickH, #808 of 2450 🔗

It’s a remarkable document. Some measures have ludicrously accurate predictions of reductions in the ‘R’. But others don’t have any.

And I loved “Many in the public didn’t understand why the guidance changed on masks indoors” – why the past tense? We still don’t understand.

183837 JYC, 3, #809 of 2450 🔗

That looks like some protest in Madrid. Could we have one here, please?

183843 calchas, replying to calchas, 5, #810 of 2450 🔗

Two more ways of describing the cult members:

Branch Covidians

Corona’s Witnesses

183846 ▶▶ anon, replying to calchas, 3, #811 of 2450 🔗

corona’s witness

brilliant!

183849 ▶▶ chaos, replying to calchas, 1, #812 of 2450 🔗

what about bedsheet wetters?

183974 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to calchas, #813 of 2450 🔗

Awesome!

183850 chaos, replying to chaos, 2, #814 of 2450 🔗

Absolute thickos on talkradio again.. almost every GP included.

183855 ▶▶ CGL, replying to chaos, #815 of 2450 🔗

The last 2 callers were talking common sense?

183865 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to CGL, #816 of 2450 🔗

Maybe I should have given the second doctor longer…

183854 Suburbian, replying to Suburbian, #817 of 2450 🔗
183860 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Suburbian, 4, #818 of 2450 🔗

It is true.

183881 ▶▶▶ Suburbian, replying to Country Mumkin, #819 of 2450 🔗

Are they just in the collecting data state or are they actually able to proceed?

184208 ▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Suburbian, #820 of 2450 🔗

I think they are collecting data to support class-action lawsuits in other jurisdictions (he talks about why in the video).

Leah Butler-Smith seems to be coordinating the UK case:
https://mobile.twitter.com/LeahButlerSmith/status/1312861204772196354

I suggest contacting her if you have suffered at all from the lockdown

183954 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Suburbian, #821 of 2450 🔗

This gives more insight :

https://youtu.be/kr04gHbP5MQ

183858 Mark, replying to Mark, 6, #822 of 2450 🔗

Rarely I think has a prediction been so quickly followed by its fulfillment.

“Something tells me that rumors that Covid-19 can be caught twice will suddenly be ‘proven’ by ‘the’ scientists in a not-yet-peer-reviewed study that will be retracted just days after 3 November. Evidence of the inconvenient truth that survival brings immunity is overwhelming but if we have really learned anything from the pandemic, it is that mass media can manipulate public opinion on the thinnest premise.” ~ Robert E. Wright
(From the front page link to his article: Run Away from Covid or Get Immune? )

Sure enough:

Covid reinfection: Man gets Covid twice and second hit ‘more severe’ By James Gallagher

To what degree the Lancet report might have been peer reviewed I don’t know, but it does seem to have been rushed out and its implications grossly exaggerated for policy purposes, and therefore must be regarded as highly suspect

183894 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Mark, 2, #823 of 2450 🔗

On that subject, the BBC (who else?), have a scare story about a woman who died after a “reinfection” in the Netherlands. Of course, she was 89 and had bone marrow cancer but why let details get in the way of a good scare story?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-54520651

183916 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Chicot, 2, #824 of 2450 🔗

This is going to be a huge issue, because it’s the only real argument they have against the GBD.

183961 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Mark, 1, #825 of 2450 🔗

That and the mystical ‘long covid’.

183948 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Mark, 2, #826 of 2450 🔗

BBC news going all in on the second infection story … clearly trying to imply how serious it is and how the covid vaccination will also need subsequent boosters

Turn up the fear volume to 11

183949 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, 3, #827 of 2450 🔗

No doubt random and unusual examples of re-infection might be found for all pathogens.

But, of course – it blows out of the water the case for vaccination, as well!

184246 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to RickH, #828 of 2450 🔗

Agreed. I had chicken pox twice (once age 4 and again age 13).

183859 mattghg, replying to mattghg, 11, #829 of 2450 🔗

This has probably been shared already, but for those who haven’t seen it, Spiked magazine has an interview with Martin Kulldorff, one of the drafters of the Great Barrington Declaration:

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/10/09/lockdown-is-a-terrible-experiment/

It’s mostly stuff we already know, but I was somewhat encouraged (in a pyrrhic way) by this Q&A:

spiked: Do you think there is a danger that the current measures could become the established way of dealing with health crises?

Kulldorff: No, because it will be so clear down the road that what we did was a big mistake.

183877 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to mattghg, #830 of 2450 🔗

mmm, might take VERY long to get there.

183864 John P, replying to John P, 7, #831 of 2450 🔗

After having had a nasty altercation on here with an individual who calls himself “Biker” yesterday and another calling himself “Major Panic” the day before.

(I am assuming that these are males.)

Biker in particular made a direct accusation against me, suggesting that I was working for the government or security services and making notes on people here.

This because I got upset with another person who was saying everybody here should leave as we were being monitored.

I have said this before, but I really don’t think that the security services are going to be much interested in people here unless they are advocating terrorism.

And I’m sorry to disappoint you, but I have no connection of any kind to the security services or to the government.

I was also accused by “Major Panic” of using several names.

No, I have only ever used my real name here. The one on my birth certificate. (Unlike messrs “Biker” and ” Major Panic”. My guess is that these are not their real names.

Recently I decided to truncate my name and use my first name and the first letter of my surname as my surname is a little unusual and my business – I am self employed – is online.

One person here in the summer thought he (or is it a she, hard to tell sometimes) was being very clever by asking me if I did this sort of work for some wealthy people who drive around motor racing circuits.

I was absolutely furious, because I had never said here what I do for a living – trying to keep that side of my life entirely separate from this – and he must have been googling my name and found my website. At that time my website even had my personal address on it. I removed that as well and called the police. (They weren’t interested).

So, if you are “sad” enough, I daresay you can go stalking me if you want to. I can’t stop you.

I am a private person, but I feel strongly about all of this. I never agreed with the lockdowns. Not even at the start.

It’s hard to know how all of this may impact my business. It’s certainly been quieter of late. I have some savings, but my mortgage still needs to be paid. My future is certainly uncertain.

IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise

– Rudyard Kipling, “If” (excerpt)

183870 ▶▶ Censored Dog, replying to John P, 4, #832 of 2450 🔗

Don’t worry too much about them mate. You always got rational people to talk to.

183874 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to John P, 5, #833 of 2450 🔗

Please don’t feel driven away by other commentators, it’s often just letting off steam or related to evening ( or poss lunchtime) drinking.

183876 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to John P, 3, #834 of 2450 🔗

I’m fairly certain Biker was making a joke.

183884 ▶▶ RickH, replying to John P, 7, #835 of 2450 🔗

John – Don’t let it get out of proportion or perspective We’re all on edge with this crap – and if you’re running your own business, it’s bloody awful.

I’ve seen this sort of stuff blow up elsewhere, and it’s never good.

From a fairly detached view (being in a minority, I guess, re. take on wider issues), I would say that this site has relatively little ‘flaming’ nonsense, and, on balance, quite a lot of common agreement and useful data and evidence. That’s what is needed – a focus on the key issue.

183946 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to RickH, 1, #836 of 2450 🔗

Agree Rick. I think posters differ on core political persuasion, but are united completely in seeking to overthrow this mad lockdown lunacy.

183887 ▶▶ calchas, replying to John P, 3, #837 of 2450 🔗

John, if I had a penny for every ‘nasty altercation’ I’d had in life, then I could probably enjoy lockdown on a landed estate.

Don’t take it all so personally.

We have lots of different viewpoints and approaches here – and I see that as an advantage.

183904 ▶▶ Mark, replying to John P, 7, #838 of 2450 🔗

Thick skin.

Guidance for discussing politics (and in our modern grossly intolerant “woke” society, “politics” has a very broad scope indeed) online:

1 Post under a pseudonym unless you are really very confident you can deal with consequences irl

2 Expect to be abused, both fairly and unfairly. Recognise that nothing anyone writes about a pseudonym can have any real significance for you. Deny it if appropriate, use it to discredit the perpetrator if convenient, otherwise let it hang there and move on.

3 If you are in the mood, or it seems beneficial in terms of argumentation, engage in counter hostilities. If you aren’t, or it isn’t, don’t bother.

4 If you can’t deal with abuse without getting unduly upset, either train yourself further to do so, or stop commenting online. It’s my belief that almost anyone can train himself to have a thick skin, especially in online discussion (it can be harder irl).

As someone who has posted from the political antiwar right for decades, I’ve been (usually more or less falsely) accused of racism, sexism, homophobia, antisemitism, being a puppet/dupe for Putin/Assad/Gaddafi/Saddam/Milosevic, heartlessness and stupidity. The only ones usually worth resisting much are the political incorrectness ones that can get you banned and censored in most places (that doesn’t seem to be a big problem here).

184026 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark, 1, #839 of 2450 🔗

Expect to be abused, both fairly and unfairly.

Dickhead !

🙂

184033 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to JohnB, #840 of 2450 🔗

Fair, or unfair?

185326 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark, #841 of 2450 🔗

Oh, most unfair. 🙂 (what you posted was good stuff).

183940 ▶▶ Jenny, replying to John P, 2, #842 of 2450 🔗

Try not to let it bother you. I must admit I avoid certain threads on here.

183952 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to John P, 2, #843 of 2450 🔗

Thank you for this post John. I think we all need to be careful that this forum doesn’t descend into a hostile environment.

184015 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to John P, 1, #844 of 2450 🔗

Happens on all social media.

Try posting some of what gets says on here on farcebook or twatter and see what abuse you get even from “friends” and followers.

Trick is never to give a real name and never take anything personally.

184025 ▶▶ Graham, replying to John P, 1, #845 of 2450 🔗

Thanks for your post. I don’t agree with you on some things but I like the way you present your case. We should always pay our opponents the compliment, whether deserved or not, of assuming them to be sincere. Rudeness and abuse on a comments section are like Gresham’s Law: bad money drives out good.

184177 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to John P, #846 of 2450 🔗

Mr P – It’s obvious Biker wasn’t being serious.

Also:

I really don’t think that the security services are going to be much interested in people here unless they are advocating terroris m.”

I beg to differ. I was at the Newbury protest camps in the 90s, and the tiny peace-loving camp I lived at for three months was being monitored by members of the secret service, posing as British Telecom workers. I know this as I confronted them – why, upon my approach, would two black-clad ‘engineers’ run out of the back of a BT van in a panic (having been in there for hours without emerging), jump in the front and screech off?

The Establishment is paranoid about us, and has been for decades (and by us, I mean the population at large – not just people on this site).

184178 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, #847 of 2450 🔗

By the way, sorry you feel like that, John. Chin up, fella. You’re among friends here.

184187 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to John P, 1, #848 of 2450 🔗

I empathize with you as I only came back to the forums yesterday following a month-long break. This followed a similar run-in. It is a shame because we have so many rational and intelligent people on here, but there is a small core of people who drip hateful venom everywhere, with indiscriminate and uncalled for snipes at innocent minorities, or getting aggressive over a simple disagreement. For example recently used words like “shove it up your fanny” and the indiscriminate and incidental use of the word “faggot”. If you really want Toby to switch to the likes of Vuukle, then this is the way to achieve it.

I get that people are angry beyond words at the moment but it is a shame they cannot refrain from attacking people on their own side, especially with attempted slurs based on gender or sexuality.

Yes I know, you should expect that kind of thing on forums, and I’m sure it will be incoming momentarily, but it is incredibly disappointing when it happens in your only refuge for sane people.

183872 Awkward Git, 7, #849 of 2450 🔗

Just had an answer back from the BBC complaints team:

Thank you for contacting us regarding BBC News.

Please accept our apologies for the delay in replying. We know our correspondents appreciate a quick response and we are sorry you have had to wait on this occasion.

We note your view our coverage of the coronavirus pandemic has frequently stated that a “positive test for coronavirus equates to a case and that the person is suffering from Covid-19.”

We report on the figures as supplied and defined by the government and clearly attribute the data to their source in our coverage. We have reported on issues relating to testing and the possible infection rates elsewhere. Examples of this can be found via the
links below:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/health-52521897

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54000629

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/54270373

Finally, we would once more like to assure you that your complaint has been forwarded to senior management and your points were included on our overnight reports.

Thank you once again for getting in touch.”

So just for the hell of it sent a rebuttal, maybe someone might read it and do a bit of thinking (doubtful but I can live in hope)

“I must say that is a pretty pathetic answer – 3 links to wishy washy articles that don’t really say much at all. They certainly do not address the complaint.

It basically says in not so many words “we are just following orders” and “we are not going to question anything or rock the boat – well maybe a teeny weeny little bit”.

Why is the BBC not demanding from Government and Councils an explanation of their actions and the deliberate lies that are being stated as truth?

Bit in there quoting the FOI answer – you’ve read it before.

Then:

So basically as admitted by the DHSC the tests are “unreliable” to say the least, have no reference standard to double check the accuracy against and that have results that means nothing medically?

And yet the Government and Councils aided and abetted by MSM and organisations such as yourself still pump out the continuous propaganda that whole swathes of the population have to be put into isolation and incarceration based on these tests and results.

So why is the BBC not holding the Government to account on the deliberately misleading information and fear-porn propaganda they are churning out on an hourly basis but merrily going along with it?

Also why is this statement by CMO Whitty in the Health and Social Care Committee hearing on the 21st July 2020 not being reported and the Government held to account:

“If you look at the R, and the behaviours, quite a lot of the change that led to the R going below one occurred well before, or to some extent before, the 23rd, when the full lockdown started.”

This one comment totally undermines and destroys the whole narrative of “following the science” to justify population lockdown and proves Sweden, Tanzania, South Dakota, Taiwan and Belarus among a very few others followed the correct course and 2000 years of medical experience dealing with these types of illnesses was the correct “treatment protocol”.

This, in effect, means that “the virus” infection rate was dropping drastically BEFORE the incarceration of the population started and that the existing precautions – wash hands properly, coughing etiquette, stay at home if you feel ill – were effectively controlling the spread of “the virus”.

It also means that the peak of the infections occurred PRIOR to the population incarceration commenced and as the average time from catching “the virus” to death has been widely stated as 23 days with the peak numbers of deaths occurring approximately 10-14 days from commencement of the incarceration it means that the imprisonment of the population and destruction of the economy has had NO effect whatsoever.

Here is a link to a video I had made for me by parliamentlivetv of the relevant section of the committee hearing:

https://1drv.ms/v/s!Agv7JEO8MngCiSmT-rY5ChSI9LV-
It’s 23 MB so too big too e-mail.

You can download it yourself on their website – set the start time at 10:58:00 and end time as 11:01 – their instructions are easy to follow.

Feel free to broadcast it as much as you like or even get parliamentlivetv to send you a copy.

National Broadcaster? Independent news?

Not in my opinion and your new Director General Tim Davie has an uphill struggle on his hands to drag the reputation of the BBC out of the gutter where it has been for many years.

183878 nocheesegromit, replying to nocheesegromit, 7, #850 of 2450 🔗

To Charlotte Kirkham (if you’re reading this):
Please don’t just accept what is happening to yourself and fellow students (including myself) – encourage Keele students to protest and ensure a return to real, full normality. It is simply inhumane to deprive young people of the socialisation they need to develop into well-rounded adults, never mind the effects this is having on their mental health.

I have created a website here: https://covid19thelowdown.wordpress.com/ with plenty of facts to show just how disproportionate the lockdown policies are in relation to the threat of the virus (esp. students who are overwhelmingly young and healthy). Share it amongst your peers if you can. I’ve included some petitions to sign in addition to anything you might want to do on campus.

Please get in touch if you’d like to speak further!

183900 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to nocheesegromit, 3, #851 of 2450 🔗

Well done NCG. 🙂

Someone needs to put a bomb up their collective arses, and it will work much better coming from another student.

183882 PhilipF, replying to PhilipF, 7, #852 of 2450 🔗

James O’Brien has today been defaming the Great Barrington Declaration because of the joke signatures (I. P Freely, etc.).This is a typical guilt by association technique that he uses. Rather than confront the argument he defames it by association. I’m sure he wouldn’t do this for a petition arguing for more lockdown.
In recent times O’Brien has had occasional programme in which people who have lost their businesses and jobs have described their situation. The stories are sometimes heartbreaking and he is suitably sympathetic, but there is no recognition that all this is the inevitable consequence of the insane policies of the last 7 months in which he is more than complicit. There is never any doubt for him that the devastation unfolding was maybe not worth it.

183909 ▶▶ Bill h, replying to PhilipF, 3, #853 of 2450 🔗

O’Brian has been appalling. Will not hear of anything counter to his expressed views.

However, by mentioning the declaration, he lends it some publicity oxygen.

Which I don’t imagine is what he would want.

183914 ▶▶ Julian, replying to PhilipF, 6, #854 of 2450 🔗

guilt by association technique” A depressing trend, and the opposite of science and reason. Trump pushes HCQ so it must be bad. Trump denounces lockdowns, so they must be good, because if you denounce lockdowns then you are Trumpian. Idiotic.

183942 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to PhilipF, 7, #855 of 2450 🔗

Hasn’t occurred to him that the fake signature were deliberately added by people who support lockdown to discredit the GBD. Also don’t recall him suggesting the ant Brexit petitions which contained thousands of signatures by bots were illegitimate back in 2016.

183953 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #856 of 2450 🔗

I’m sure it has occurred to him. I wouldn’t be surprised if he even egged it on.

183944 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to PhilipF, 2, #857 of 2450 🔗

Yes i’m sure he wouldn’t use it when Mr Blair lends his support for the EU cause.

I can’t stand that sanctimonious a***hole

184024 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to PhilipF, #858 of 2450 🔗

You’re talking about someone who has never had an original thought in his life. His entire MO is to repeat the establishment line in an irritable way.

183883 Lydia, replying to Lydia, 5, #859 of 2450 🔗

Help! We’re in a tier two lockdown and just received this from school.

Dear Parents/Carers,
The Government Guidance has changed today for school students with regard to wearing face coverings. New guidelines will come into effect tomorrow: Wednesday 14th October.
This is a result of local restrictions coming into effect in Nottinghamshire.
Therefore, from tomorrow all students should wear face coverings as follows:
* When entering buildings, in corridors and communal areas e.g. reception / student services.
* When entering and queuing in catering facilities – they may remove them when seated and eating/drinking.
* Students should continue to wear masks on bus transport.
* It remains personal choice should students wish to wear masks in the classrooms or outside.
This applies to both main school students Years 7 – 11 and 16+ students.
We will inform students later today.
Procedures will also be clarified to students tomorrow in a videoed message during tutor time.
Please ensure that your child arrives at school tomorrow with a face covering

No mention of exemptions and I’m unsure of the government guidance of face coverings for school students.

183886 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Lydia, 3, #860 of 2450 🔗

We are not tier 2 and these have been the rules for weeks now. They have to wear them outside at break and lunch too. My eldest in 6th form has to turn up at the beginning of the day and sit masked for 5 hours before her first lesson of the day. I don’t even want my kids to go to school any more.

183907 ▶▶▶ Lydia, replying to CGL, 3, #861 of 2450 🔗

Its dreadful for them isn’t it. I feel that they are being punished.

183919 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to CGL, 3, #862 of 2450 🔗

I think I’d take my kids out of school if they tried that here.

183981 ▶▶▶▶ Lydia, replying to TJN, #863 of 2450 🔗

I don’t think its an option for me to do that.

184000 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Lydia, #864 of 2450 🔗

Oh dear. Wearing a mask simply cannot do a child (or an adult) any good, physically or psychologically. I’d do anything I could to fight it.

As other respondents have suggested – UsForThem may well be of help. They are likely to be the best bet right now.

I’d also give my MP an earful.

184006 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lydia, replying to TJN, #865 of 2450 🔗

My MP is useless!

184056 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Lydia, #866 of 2450 🔗

Same here, at least as far as covid is concerned. But it’s still good to give them a blasting. Makes me feel better.

183888 ▶▶ Suburbian, replying to Lydia, 2, #867 of 2450 🔗

hi, check the government guidance but I don’t think it agrees with that…only in hallways and shared spaces. Also go to usforthem.co.uk and look at their letter downloads…I think there maybe something of use

183903 ▶▶▶ Lydia, replying to Suburbian, #868 of 2450 🔗

Thank you, I will.

183889 ▶▶ bucky99, replying to Lydia, 2, #869 of 2450 🔗

I’d visit Us For Them for guidance. They also have a FB group.

183902 ▶▶▶ Lydia, replying to bucky99, 1, #870 of 2450 🔗

Will do, thanks.

183921 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to bucky99, 1, #871 of 2450 🔗

Yes, I found them good on guidance for my daughter.

183985 ▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to bucky99, 1, #872 of 2450 🔗

They have been brilliant – I would encourage everyone to take part in their ‘call to actions’ too.

184045 ▶▶▶▶ bucky99, replying to nocheesegromit, #873 of 2450 🔗

One has just appeared in my inbox, as it happens

183891 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Lydia, 6, #874 of 2450 🔗

Exemptions apply in schools just as they do everywhere else.

183898 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Dave #KBF, #875 of 2450 🔗

Try getting a teenager to go against the mob

183918 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to CGL, 3, #876 of 2450 🔗

I know exactly what you mean, I work in a school and as far as I am aware I am the only member of staff not wearing a mask.

184159 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to CGL, 2, #877 of 2450 🔗

Done it. I appealed to my stepson’s sense of vanity (mask mouth etc). He now carries his exemption card with pride, and asked for more for friends and relatives. His sister’s harder to persuade…

183901 ▶▶▶ Lydia, replying to Dave #KBF, 4, #878 of 2450 🔗

This is what annoys me as they don’t mention it. I don’t wear a mask myself and don’t want my child to wear one but its him that has to have the confidence to not wear one at school. And with school not mentioning it means that they have no idea exemptions exist!

183920 ▶▶ JohnMac, replying to Lydia, 5, #879 of 2450 🔗

I don’t understand how the exemptions might not apply to children.

I don’t get how the parents can’t just tell the school that their child is caused “severe distress” by wearing a mask. Shouldn’t that be the end of the matter? Indeed, all children could say that and none would have to wear masks. What could the school do about it? And, quite frankly, what sort of school would even want to do anything about it?

Especially since the masks cause children irreversible brain damage: http://www.bitchute.com/video/SzCVLXCDzk87/

Knowing that alone must cause severe distress.

183969 ▶▶▶ Lydia, replying to JohnMac, 1, #880 of 2450 🔗

Apparantly its mandatory that kids wear face coverings as per PHE and Gov Guidance. I explained its guidance and not law. They asked if my child was SEN as he could carry a card to say he’s exempt!

183992 ▶▶▶▶ JohnMac, replying to Lydia, 2, #881 of 2450 🔗

Amazing. So what would happen if your children and all their friends claimed to be SEN?

I have so little respect for teachers at the moment.

184002 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lydia, replying to JohnMac, 1, #882 of 2450 🔗

I was told that I need to medically prove it that he was SEN.

184022 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Lydia, #883 of 2450 🔗

People tell lies. Apologies if you hadn’t heard that before.

184021 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Lydia, #884 of 2450 🔗

You have researched exemptions properly, Lydia ?

183922 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to Lydia, #885 of 2450 🔗

Look at Us For Them website – they answer this issue in FAQs. A friend’s daughter does NOT wear them after informing the school she is exempt REMEMBER to tell the school, if asked, the Government guidance clearly states you can self exempt with No requirement to provide a Drs certificate etc – which shouldn’t be asked for.

183972 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Lydia, 6, #886 of 2450 🔗

Ask the school for a written guarantee that your child will not come to any harm from wearing a mask.

The school has a duty of care to your child and should not be exposing children to harm, either physical or psychological.

Unless they are incredibly reckless, they will refuse to provide you with such a written confirmation. At that point, you should refuse to muzzle your child because the school cannot guarantee your child’s safety.

In case you want to go down the exemption route, here’s a document that you can use to remind the school of the consequences of refusing to accept that some people may legally go bare faced.

183988 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Lydia, 3, #887 of 2450 🔗

Students! They are bloody pupils! They are not at university. What stupid regulation.

183998 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Lydia, 1, #888 of 2450 🔗

Tell them goet stick their masks up their arse and take your kids out of school.

184038 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to Lydia, 1, #889 of 2450 🔗

I worked in a school where masks were worn going around the building, rather like being mandated here. Students took them off in lessons, wore them on their heads, put them in their pockets, kept handling them etc.

184048 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Lydia, #890 of 2450 🔗

Given the harmsncaused by wearing a mask detailed below, the school staff must accept personal liability for any costs associated with medical care caused by the behavour they are mandating.
That will also demonstrate to the pupils how adults accept responsibility for their actions:
https://nypost.com/2020/08/05/mask-mouth-is-a-seriously-stinky-side-effect-of-wearing-masks/

184077 ▶▶ Foxglove, replying to Lydia, 2, #891 of 2450 🔗

My daughter is in year 9 and these have been the rules at her school since September. We are in Derbyshire. She has never worn a mask either in school or on the bus. She says she is exempt and I have given her a lanyard. She is the only one standing at the bus bay unmasked but not had any bother from the other pupils which was my main concern. Some of her class mates have started to join her and walk down to lunch without a mask.

The teachers lecture them daily about mask wearing and being responsible. It really is an awful predicament for us as parents. I hate the new regime which is on a par with a young offenders’ institution but my daughter is very sociable and missed her friends during lockdown. Being at the end of a zoom class is not the answer,

183895 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #892 of 2450 🔗

Does anyone notice something missing from this instruction?
Or do they just think we’re all cloth caps and clogs “up here”?

People should aim to reduce the number of journeys they make where possible. If they need to travel, they should walk or cycle where possible, or to plan ahead and avoid busy times and routes on public transport.

183931 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #893 of 2450 🔗

Does anyone notice something missing from this instruction?

Yes, shocking! They haven’t said anything about state-subsidised tie-up points for the string we use to lead our whippets…

183956 ▶▶▶ wayno, replying to Mark, 3, #894 of 2450 🔗

wow your posh, you got string for your whippet,

183980 ▶▶▶▶ William Hand, replying to wayno, 3, #895 of 2450 🔗

Whippets? You are lucky when I was a lad all we had were worms on a string.

184283 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to William Hand, #897 of 2450 🔗

“When I was a lad”? What sort o’Northern is that?? Surely you mean “when I were a lad,” lad. Far too much Southern creeping in here.

183933 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #898 of 2450 🔗

I noticed: Cars.

183935 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #899 of 2450 🔗

Does that mean you aren’t allowed to use “t’t pony und trap”?

183982 ▶▶▶ William Hand, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 1, #900 of 2450 🔗

Pony and’t rap ??? That’s a bit posh innit?

183896 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #901 of 2450 🔗

Latest from Heiko Schoning

https://acu2020.org/english-versions/

184062 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Country Mumkin, #902 of 2450 🔗

Thanks great link.

World Doctors Alliance – we are Doctors, Scientists and Peace activists – the fear of covid is not true. As Doctors we speak out the truth and get that to the public.

Also doctor from the UK.

183899 Bill h, 1, #903 of 2450 🔗

There is a frankly shocking piece in the OffGuardian today on the sinister Klaus Schwab and the Great Reset thinking.

Seriously worrying.

https://off-guardian.org/2020/10/12/klaus-schwab-his-great-fascist-reset/

One way or another, must be called out and resisted.

183910 Nissan Gnat, replying to Nissan Gnat, 1, #904 of 2450 🔗

It appears that yesterday’s announcement effectively automates the roll out of these tiers and the associated increased restrictions. As the cases or rather suspect positive tests rise then new areas will qualify to move up the tiers.

Any bets on what % of the country will be in the very high risk lockdown mode by end of November?

184055 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Nissan Gnat, #905 of 2450 🔗

Well, it will affect 87% of the population. That is, those that don’t live in London. Toby’s lead graphic is a good indication.

184117 ▶▶▶ D B, replying to Sam Vimes, #906 of 2450 🔗

Nah Sadist Khan wants us all to be imprisoned too.

183925 NorthumbrianNomad, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 1, #907 of 2450 🔗

Amid all the apocalyptic talk of how things will never be the same again, a glimmer of good news.
Everywhere else is getting back to normal quicker than the U.K.:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/heathrow-drops-busiest-airport-europe/

183947 ▶▶ calchas, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 16, #908 of 2450 🔗

Sorry, but ‘normality’ for me means no masks and no physical distancing.

Can you point me to a country which has had both and has now completely revoked them – apart from possibly Tanzania.

183971 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to calchas, 1, #909 of 2450 🔗

Belarus?

184156 ▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to chaos, #910 of 2450 🔗

Belarus never had them – so never revoked them

183994 ▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to calchas, 2, #911 of 2450 🔗

Not countries but I think some US states have done it. Florida? Tennessee?

184005 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to mattghg, 2, #912 of 2450 🔗

South Dakota.

184012 ▶▶▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to JohnB, 1, #913 of 2450 🔗

Did they ever have a mask mandate?

184047 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to mattghg, #914 of 2450 🔗

Florida sadly yes.
Switzerland is now also crumbling more and more.
So much for the Tell spirit.

183929 JHuntz, 2, #915 of 2450 🔗

Toby I have to say Woke Gobbledegook may be the best daily journalism I read. The name is spot on and truly defines the clown world we live in.

183938 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #916 of 2450 🔗
183945 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #917 of 2450 🔗

Hmm. Liverpool. Home of the Toxteth Riots and perhaps the part of the country that despises the Tories the most. Is it a deliberate attempt to provoke a response?

183968 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #918 of 2450 🔗

Not sure. I live in a tory bastard area and the ‘case’ figures look astonishingly low.

184003 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #919 of 2450 🔗

It’s certainly suspicious.

183962 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Nick Rose, 5, #920 of 2450 🔗

I’ve made a mixtape for them:

There She (doesn’t) Goes
No Ferry across the Mersey
You’ll always walk alone
When the Reds Go Staying In
We Shall Not We Shall Not be allowed to moved
Let’s (not) Dance
In My Liverpoool home (lockdown mix)
When I saw her standing there (in her mask)

184050 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Nick Rose, #921 of 2450 🔗

Great idea. Don’t agree about being muzzled and social distanced at the protest though.

184060 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Chicot, 1, #922 of 2450 🔗

Same here. Great in spirit, though.

184150 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Chicot, 1, #923 of 2450 🔗

I think he is saying that to stop the goons shutting him down before he starts

184174 ▶▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to stefarm, 1, #924 of 2450 🔗

I could see that about sd but not about masks. As far as I know, there is no mandate about masks being worn outside.

184152 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Chicot, #925 of 2450 🔗

Means they can’t close the protest down for ‘health reasons’, like they tried in London. Nice tactic if they can pull it off. He stated that the measures, social distancing and masks, are bollocks, so he’s 100% sceptic.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-protesters-and-police-officer-hurt-in-clashes-at-anti-lockdown-rally-in-central-london-12082468

“Police say there were “no efforts by organisers to engage with crowds and keep those assembling safe from transmitting the virus”.

184154 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #926 of 2450 🔗

Can you keep us non-Twittering folks posted about this please, Nick – Liverpool’s just a stone’s throw from me…

184249 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Mr Dee, #927 of 2450 🔗

You can still copy and past the link and the twitter thread will open. You can then refresh or search from there. However you won’t be able to comment or vote.

184257 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mr Dee, #928 of 2450 🔗

As I find it, I’ll post it 👍

183951 zacaway, replying to zacaway, 2, #929 of 2450 🔗

Anyone else picked up on this (reported by UK Column):

This will be the last COVID-19 surveillance report, as of 8 October 2020, the information in this report will be published in a combined Weekly flu and COVID-19 Surveillance Report on GOV.UK.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/923668/Weekly_COVID19_Surveillance_Report_week_40.pdf

Seems that the Covid numbers aren’t scary enough, so they are going to stop reporting on them and instead will just lump them in with flu numbers, to fuel the fear.

183957 ▶▶ leggy, replying to zacaway, 2, #930 of 2450 🔗

Yeah – such a grave threat to our existence they measure it with the flu.

183958 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to zacaway, 1, #931 of 2450 🔗

They will be able to bump it up ×10.

183963 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to zacaway, 7, #932 of 2450 🔗

As long as it is the report that is combined, not the figures, it could be to our advantage. Side-by-side comparison. But of course that would also depend on honesty and the same level of effort to test for flu as for covid-19 which, both of which are vanishingly unlikely.

183976 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Charlie Blue, 2, #933 of 2450 🔗

Good point, it’s not clear how they are going to report it.

184004 ▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to zacaway, #934 of 2450 🔗

Think it’s been confirmed elsewhere It’s not being combined. They didn’t confirm they’d be truthful though 😉

183955 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 7, #935 of 2450 🔗

12.05 R2 Jeremy Vine show started by broadcasting the whole of Charles Walker MP speech in Toby’s piece above.

183986 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to karenovirus, #936 of 2450 🔗

Is JV onside or attempting to discredit what CW has said?

183995 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Ozzie, #937 of 2450 🔗

Clearly not happy with Aris but didn’t ask about GDB

184088 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Ozzie, 2, #938 of 2450 🔗

That JV is even giving airtime to sceptical POV is a considerable improvement on the performance of almost everyone else who works for the BBC.

183991 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, #939 of 2450 🔗

Main guest was one proff Aris Katsorakis (?) epidemiologist from Oxford.
‘Scientific consensus against letting it rip is now stronger than in March’ no mention of GBD.

Caller from Liverpool felt her city was getting picked on, solution = extend tier 3 rules to the whole country. ‘Anyway I don’t go to pubs as I don’t feel comfortable some young men think life revolves around getting drunk. . . . ‘ cut of by JV.

184008 ▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to karenovirus, 3, #940 of 2450 🔗

Journalists: Do your job! Anyone who talks about “letting it rip” needs to be asked: “Why did you use that expression? Is someone briefing you? Because that’s what it sounds like.”

184091 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to karenovirus, 1, #941 of 2450 🔗

Loved the way the prof got two of the official approved phrases in: ‘consensus’ and ‘let it rip’. He almost said ‘let it rip’ a second time a bit later then corrected himself: ‘let it r– loose’.

183959 Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, 4, #942 of 2450 🔗

Just received this from my (Labour) MP, after having written to her about the renewal of the Coronavirus Act Overall a reasonable and proportionate email, although doesn’t address the hardship issues that I raised (people out of work, lack of health care for non-COVID). It contained no salutation, so I assume it is a blanket email to anyone writing about the Act.

Thank you for contacting me about the renewal of the Coronavirus Act 2020 (the Act).

As you know, the first six-month review of the Act took place on 30 September 2020 when the renewal of the temporary provisions within the Act was approved.

This legislation contains some of the most draconian powers ever seen in peacetime Britain. I worked closely with my colleagues in Parliament to scrutinise this legislation when it was introduced in March to ensure that any exercise of executive power or administrative action is measured against human rights and common-law standards. These include necessity, proportionality, rationality, fairness, and non-discrimination.

We have seen over 42,000 deaths in the UK, lives altered in ways unimaginable a year ago, and our economy facing one of the worst recessions on record. I accept the challenge that presents, and I recognise that in a pandemic any government needs extraordinary powers available. With a heavy heart, facing the highly unsatisfactory situation of an all-or-nothing motion brought before the House of Commons on 30 September, I did not vote to block its passage.

Nevertheless, I understand the concerns you raise about the lack of parliamentary scrutiny since the Act came into force, and I can assure you I am supporting calls for greater scrutiny and accountability.

With such strong powers available, the need for accountability is even more important than in ordinary times. I am therefore pleased that in response to pressure, the Government announced that, where possible, Parliament will be consulted on any future significant measures that take effect across the whole of England or the UK.

I also share the concerns that have been raised about schedule 21 of the Act, which gives public health officers, constables, and immigration officers the power to take action against potentially infectious persons. It is deeply concerning that this provision has so far been used for 141 prosecutions, all of which were found to be unlawful when reviewed. Additionally, I believe the term “potentially infectious persons” is unclear and could include anybody. I firmly believe this provision must be looked at again. The Government must also be more transparent and accountable by outlining and explaining the use of schedule 21 powers every month.

The Government must, in my view, commit to publishing a monthly review of any disproportionate impact of the Act on individuals or groups and give Parliament the time to debate and hold votes on regulatory changes.

Thank you once again for contacting me about this important issue. I assure you I will continue to hold the Government to account and ensure that this emergency legislation is kept under regular review.

Best wishes,

Anneliese

Anneliese Dodds MP
Member of Parliament for Oxford East

183989 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Ozzie, 2, #943 of 2450 🔗

Thought mine was similar. Just checked, it’s not

184108 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Ozzie, 1, #944 of 2450 🔗

What is it with these people. Don’t they get that 42k deaths with an average age of 82.4 years, sad though it is that they have died, have lived on average 1.2 years longer than current UK life expectancy (81.15 years).

183964 Edward, replying to Edward, 11, #945 of 2450 🔗

Another letter to my MP.
Dear xxxx

Once again I have to write to you, though I am still awaiting replies to my messages of 9 and 21 September.

My concern is that the Government is continuing to impose varieties of lockdown on the nation. Another six months of national misery lies ahead, leaving a trail of destruction. The previous lockdown failed to suppress the coronavirus, so there is no reason to suppose that a repeat will have any more success. Nevertheless the Government seems willing to ignore the immense collateral damage which will be done to the economy, society, and people’s mental and physical health.

In my previous message (21 September) I queried the Prime Minister’s mental state. I now have to express my views less sympathetically and more bluntly. Is the Government malevolent or insane, or possibly both? I consider Johnson, Hancock and Whitty to be criminals, who committed manslaughter earlier this year by recklessly ordering the discharge of Covid-infected patients from hospitals into care homes. A similar charge applies in relation to the enforced withdrawal of timely diagnosis and treatment for cancer and other potentially fatal conditions. A more general misdeed is the summary removal of basic human rights of free association and family life. I consider MPs who do not oppose these crimes to be complicit in them.

(Continued in reply below)

184035 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Edward, 2, #946 of 2450 🔗

It’s not manslaughter, call it what it is, it’s economic genocide.

184061 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Edward, 4, #947 of 2450 🔗

(Continued)
Outside the Westminster bubble which you inhabit, there are two schools of thought as to why the Government is relentlessly pursuing its damaging policies – in vulgar terms, the cock-up theory and the conspiracy theory. The former holds that the Government is incompetent and blundering, while the latter holds that it is following a path set by an anti-democratic global elite associated with the World Economic Foundation and United Nations Agenda 21. The latter theory is gaining ground as it’s becoming difficult to believe that anyone could be so incompetent. I invite you to clarify the situation by giving clear answers to the following questions.
1. Is it the Government’s intention ever to restore the whole nation to the state of relative freedom and prosperity which existed before March 2020?
2. Do you oppose compulsory vaccination in general terms and as a condition for access to public facilities and services?
(Please note, I am not opposed to vaccination where there is a proven medical benefit, but medical ethics requires the patient’s freely expressed consent to any treatment, and it is illegal to discriminate on the basis of disability.)
3. Do you oppose mass surveillance of the population by electronic and other means?
(My concern here is that mechanisms such as Track & Trace may be extended compulsorily and indefinitely to a wide range of activities.)
4. Aside from your personal views, what is your understanding of the Government’s position on the previous two questions?

Finally I would like to draw your attention to the Great Barrington Declaration ( https://gbdeclaration.org ) by a group of distinguished scientists and medical practitioners. Despite attempts by sections of the media to smear this declaration, it presents a convincing case for changes to current policies. Merely asserting that the declaration is wrong is not a valid rebuttal.

184236 ▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to Edward, #948 of 2450 🔗

An excellent letter.

184092 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Edward, 2, #949 of 2450 🔗

This is a very good letter – assume a Tory MP in a very safe seat?

184229 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #950 of 2450 🔗

Tory, a bit marginal.

183966 mjr, replying to mjr, 12, #951 of 2450 🔗

ye gods – just seen on BBC politics a labour MP .. didnt catch the name but looks like a pound shop Dawn Butler talking about “following the science” lauding how Australia and New Zealand followed the science and have “succesfully eradicated covid” ..
and these people get elected?????

183977 ▶▶ Dame Lynet, replying to mjr, 1, #952 of 2450 🔗

Wow, pound shop Dawn Butler is an exceedingly low bar!

183978 ▶▶ Mark, replying to mjr, 2, #953 of 2450 🔗

a pound shop Dawn Butler

There’s a cheaper and lower quality version!?

184019 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, 4, #954 of 2450 🔗

Hang on, tho’ – she, unlike the vast majority of Tory and Labour MPs did vote against the tide last week.

184043 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, #955 of 2450 🔗

Hadn’t noticed that, tbh. Well credit where it is due.

We are all having to reassess our opinions of people in the current bullshit extremity, I suppose.

183979 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to mjr, 8, #956 of 2450 🔗

Ha! Eradicated COVID. It eradicated itself, more like. And now they are cut off from the rest of the world, waiting for the mythic vaccine.

184010 ▶▶ leggy, replying to mjr, #957 of 2450 🔗

A bit a lot of hardcore socialists would love to be lording it in Victoria right now.

183967 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #958 of 2450 🔗

That song’ Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered’ was on the radio, reminded me of Boris Johnson, can’t think why

184001 ▶▶ Hieronimusb, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #959 of 2450 🔗

I sing to him, each Spring to him,
And worship the trousers that cling to him….

(possibly the lamest lyric of all time, could be why?)

183987 Paul, replying to Paul, 12, #960 of 2450 🔗

Living only 25 miles from Nottingham I thought I would break my ‘no msm’ rule to look at the Nottingham Post website.
If the quotes from the public in the article about lockdown are true and I know they only use the ones that fit the correct narrative,bloody hell the public are even more stupid and brainwashed than I realised,they have no idea what a ‘case’ is and they talk as if the world is about to end.They are positively begging to be locked down and punished.
I know a lot of people have been mesmerised by the fear project and are frightened but I have no sympathy for them anymore,it is them and their unquestioning obedience that is dragging us all into the abyss.

183996 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Paul, 6, #961 of 2450 🔗

just a reminder.
Nottingham post have BBC embedded “Local Democracy Reporters” There are 150 of these placed in every local newspaper
Nottingham post has 4 of them

183999 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Paul, 5, #962 of 2450 🔗

Same here in South Derbyshire but it pays to remember that only the most stupid and opinionated post on local
MSM and social media. Most people look at the comments and realise these people are too thick to engage with so it appears the threads are disproportionately filled with pro lockdown cretins.

184052 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 1, #963 of 2450 🔗

There are some excellent comments in the Mail these days, perhaps readers of local MSM regard the DM as ‘too big’ for them, probably right and just as well.

184148 ▶▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to karenovirus, #964 of 2450 🔗

I don’t know. I read the Richard Littlejohn article today and was disheartened that (at least when I read it) half the comments were virulently pro harsher lockdown.

184016 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Paul, 8, #965 of 2450 🔗

I generally exercise the same blanking of MSM sources – and for the same obvious reasons.

But, like you, I experienced it yesterday, in the form of Ch 4 News – which has a generally better record than the BBC.

But the oppression of propagandised information was overwhelming.

I keep in touch with the actual data (I sometimes wish I could just turn away more), and it is horrifying that the brainwashing falsification in the MSM is so totally divorced from the real picture. It is a different world that is being portrayed, not just slight differences in emphasis.

Just calling people “bedwetters’ – or whatever – doesn’t begin to touch the evil depths of credulity that this propaganda has forced on society. This is all-embracing fiction, aimed explicitly at scaring people out of any reason.

So I do have some sympathy – you really have to work hard and know your way around to get at the truth.

183990 AngloWelshDragon, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 13, #966 of 2450 🔗

ADVICE PLEASE: Following on from yesterday’s discussion I have just received an invitation to participate in Imperial’s Covid-19 in-Home antibody research study.

Clearly I have no wish to be tested ever if it can be avoided so do I ignore it or test something other then myself? It isn’t a swab, it’s a finger prick so I’m not going to test it on the dogs or horse but I could get a blood sample from the Sunday roast before it goes in the oven.

Alternatively I suppose I could return it with a picture of a Matt Hancock and a note saying “here is a prick for your collection”!

All suggestions welcome.

184009 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 3, #967 of 2450 🔗

Prick that dog !

184011 ▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to JohnB, 1, #968 of 2450 🔗

nooooooooo!

184018 ▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 4, #969 of 2450 🔗

The roast.

184032 ▶▶ Suze Burtenshaw, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 2, #970 of 2450 🔗

How about fake blood? It being close to Hallowe’en, there should be some in shops or online. Personally, I think your Matt ‘Moonface’ Hancock suggestion is ace!

184041 ▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 2, #971 of 2450 🔗

Bin

184057 ▶▶ Mark, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #972 of 2450 🔗

What breed of dogs, though? My experience is that labradors for instance will happily take a prick in return for food.

184140 ▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Mark, 2, #973 of 2450 🔗

A poo and three shitz (ie a miniature poodle and two Shih tzus) I’m not pricking them though. The poo escaped being boiled alive in a pressure cooker in Korea so I think he’s been through enough!

184097 ▶▶ mjr, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #974 of 2450 🔗

clearly the previous trawling exercises havent come up with the numbers. saw first of these a couple of months back. This household had another invite in today’s post so clearly another batch has just been sent.

184143 ▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to mjr, #975 of 2450 🔗

What have you done with yours?

184271 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #976 of 2450 🔗

binned it .. i realised last time that the paper wasn’t soft or absorbent enough for appropriate usage

184134 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #977 of 2450 🔗

A blood orange

184020 Nick Rose, 12, #978 of 2450 🔗

Good speech here:

https://twitter.com/normanbowes33/status/1315679123117932544

For those without Twitter:

@BorisJohnson

you stated Liverpool hospital Covid cases are at crisis point

Summary states 387 beds occupied, with 89 being Covid cases for NW region as a whole

You have some explaining to do Pinocchio

184029 Awkward Git, 5, #979 of 2450 🔗

Whooooo – on a winner today.

Simon Dolan posted the CMO Whitty statement from 21st July 2020 on his twitter.

Result.

184034 Fernando, 7, #980 of 2450 🔗

Mama mia Covid style:

We’ve been told what to do since I don’t know when
So I’ve made up my mind it must come to an end
Look at us now, will we ever learn?
I don’t know how, got to break free of this control
Put some fight back into our souls
Just one case and they all start panicking
One more case and they close down everything

Oh Chris Whitty, harbinger of doom
Graphs say we could all drop dead soon
Covid-19, mass hysteria
Do we live in North Korea?
They’re following the science
Fines to ensure compliance
Where did our sense of perspective go?
Covid-19, now we really know
That the death rate’s very very low

I’ve been angry and sad about the things that they do
I can’t count all the laws that have been hurried through
Pubs close at ten, then they shut their doors
I don’t know when this curfew’s going to end
It’s driving me round the bend
Just one case and they all start panicking
One more case and they close down everything

Ministers are ruling by decree
Thank God for sir Graham Brady
Cabinet is just a ship of fools
Boris mis-quoting the rules
There’s Gavin Williamson
And Ofqual’s algorithm
Left thousands of students stuck in limbo
Covid-19, will it end one day?
Vaccine, could be now or never
Whack a mole is just a game we play
Lockdown on and on forever

184039 Londo Mollari, replying to Londo Mollari, 5, #981 of 2450 🔗

My local GPs say they are unable to do any blood tests (except urgent ones) for the forseeable future due to “national issues.” They don’t say what they mean by urgent tests nor do they say what national issues are involved. However, I strongly suspect this is due to all test kits under construction being Covid test kits leaving a shortage of testing kits for blood for other conditions. So, tough if you need diabetic monitoring or wharfrin measuring.

184051 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Londo Mollari, 4, #982 of 2450 🔗

That sounds like complete bllx to me.

I know of at least one path lab where the workload was down by 70%, and they were having to though staff on a rotating basis because there was so little work to do.
If the GP is suggesting that the labs are overworked which is why they can’t do blood tests I’d say they’re lying or have been wilfully misinformed.

184110 ▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Lms23, #983 of 2450 🔗

The GP is citing nationwide issues. I suggested that Covid test kits may be the reason and someone has posted a link above.

184138 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Londo Mollari, #984 of 2450 🔗

Covid test kits have nothing to do with blood tests for everything else. I worked in clinical biochemistry/pathology for years. Path labs have a range of different lab, i.e. Haematology, biochemistry, microbiology, immunology. They won’t be devoted to just testing for CV19.

184063 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Londo Mollari, 4, #985 of 2450 🔗

Just being lazy, plenty of people are getting bloods done. Your GP gets paid for having you on his books, not what work he does for you.

184105 ▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to karenovirus, #986 of 2450 🔗

Some of the biggest Covid Nazis in my community are those elderly with ill health who require blood tests. There also now seems to be a shortage of flu jabs because they’ve been panicked into getting them. Maybe now some of these Covid Nazis will begin to develop some joined-up thinking. I’m not holding my breath, however.

184119 ▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to godowneasy, #988 of 2450 🔗

They make the blood test issue and the Covid test issue appear to be separate but if that is the case why are they emphasising the fact that covid tests will continue?

184155 ▶▶▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Londo Mollari, #989 of 2450 🔗

Because COVID has priority over everything else I assume?

184147 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Londo Mollari, #990 of 2450 🔗

“Hospitals across England are having to ration blood tests because of problems affecting one of the NHS’s main suppliers of the chemicals needed to analyse them.

Many hospitals have begun limiting who can have a blood test in response to a serious shortage of reagents which are used in processing them. Those with the most pressing medical need are having their test but non-urgent tests are being delayed.

Urgent talks are underway involving Roche, the firm involved, NHS England and NHS Supply Chain to try to minimise the disruption to the normal running of hospitals and resolve the issue. There were fears that the problem with the Swiss pharmaceutical company’s new warehouse could take two or three weeks to fix, but hopes are rising that that may now happen within days.”

It’s this, apparently.

Which brings to mind thoughts of eggs and baskets….

184166 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Londo Mollari, #991 of 2450 🔗

I read that it is partly as Roche has a new fully automated ware house misfunctioning, they simply cannot send out the products needed for blood tests.

184217 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Londo Mollari, #992 of 2450 🔗

That has been confirmed elsewhere. There is a shortage of materials necessary for a wide range of medical tests as the underlying material is being used to make COVID19 tests.

184042 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 6, #993 of 2450 🔗

You’ve got to hand it to them, they are always one step ahead of us in this war. The combining of Covid and flu reporting immediately undermines the data behind our usual argument that it’s no worse than flu. They will now treat Flu like Covid. The numbers will eventually be conflated. We will not just get a Covid vaccine we will have a combined Corona/Flu jab like the MMR. It will be the “winter health jab” and will be mandatory. Local lockdowns of some type will be a seasonal reality from now on.

I’m going to make one more prediction. Next year the 5 year rolling death average used to calculate excess deaths should be updated to include this years data. That will immediately reduce the excess death count for the next five years. I predict they will exclude 2020 from the 5 year average as an “exceptional year” so excess deaths are kept as high as possible.

184059 ▶▶ IsabelleG, replying to Achilles, 1, #994 of 2450 🔗

MSM is already pushing it in certain countries: https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/2018767843/near-extinction-of-influenza-in-nz-as-numbers-drop-due-to-lockdown

“What the Covid-19 response has done has largely eliminated those excess winter deaths and mortality as a whole is down around 5 percent,” he said. “So that means an extra 1500 people will survive this year who wouldn’t have.”

Baker said these measures had led to “a revolutionary change in thinking about how to deal with respiratory pathogens” and could be brought back in the event of a serious flu pandemic.

184129 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to IsabelleG, 2, #995 of 2450 🔗

So that’ll be permanent border closure, and six-monthly lockdowns every winter, then.

184086 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Achilles, 1, #996 of 2450 🔗

Yet no-one should utter the words ‘it is just like the flu’. They now combine the two?

184096 ▶▶ Jo, replying to Achilles, 1, #997 of 2450 🔗

I’ve been wanting to ask about this. I heard from this site that since 8 October flu and Covid reporting would be combined – sorry for being thick, but does this mean that we can no longer see how many Covid hospital admissions/deaths there are?

184113 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Jo, 1, #998 of 2450 🔗

nothing has changed. we could not see now many “covid” admissions or deaths we were having before that were actually due to being ill with covid rather than just having had a positive test.

All it will mean is that now anyone is hospitalised for flu it will also be counted as a covid death. Flu was never a notifiable disease and so was never shown unless the illness was flu.

As always , lies, damned lies and statistics.

184171 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Achilles, #999 of 2450 🔗

They have played a blinder haven’t they. I wonder when the decision to combine covid with everything else respiratory was taken?

184044 Jane, 5, #1000 of 2450 🔗

What an effing nightmare.
All I can see, looking at it from here, is that this whole “;pandemic response” is actually a (new?) form of collective punishment.
Gleichschaltung 2.0. Sieg heil!

184049 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 5, #1001 of 2450 🔗

https://twitter.com/FatEmperor/status/1315982229236068353

One to wake up the UK citizenry – credit to Joel Smalley for pulling this hospitalization data

– only up to Oct 1st, but reveals what’s been going on.

A super-short vid for our UK people!

184127 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1002 of 2450 🔗

a must to watch.. just confirms what we knew… PCR positives are driving everything – over a cliff i think

184245 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Nick Rose, #1003 of 2450 🔗

2 minutes to bring clarity – it’s actually criminal that the good show are not presenting this data. The role of a Government is to reassure it’s citizens, not terrify it.

184386 ▶▶ Bill h, replying to Nick Rose, #1004 of 2450 🔗

Link not working for me.

Any other source ?

184053 DRW, 10, #1005 of 2450 🔗

Great comment on Reddit:
The problem is most science today (apart from hard sciences) is not falsifiable due to so many variables so they have created a solution called “consensus” that is supposed to make up for that. Instead of making things more accurate it allows group bias, financial interests, and political pressure to morph consensus and their scientific conclusions into a illogical mess.

184054 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 7, #1006 of 2450 🔗

I have just had a quick look at my local Facebook Idiot pages. This is what we are up against. These people are evil.
********************************
If lockdown is the only way. Then do a proper full on lockdown. 2 weeks with immediate effect. No ore warning. Nothing.
Everything stops for 2 weeks and I mean everything. Not a thing is open. You cannot go out at all.
If you need food the army will deliver a food parcel. If you need medical help. Then the army will send a doctor. Nothing else out.
Otherwise. What’s the point in a soft one..

**********************

Its wonderful to see the positive cases in shitshire staying so low.

With all the additional.testing, we should be celebrating that our region only sees a tiny increase of 9 positive cases in the period

Yes, it’s an IMBY view but you can only control the controllable

The vast majority of people in the shits ville area seem to be taking responsibility for themselves and wearing masks in the stores etc. I think the same can’t be said for many other areas.

I know I come across as somewhat sceptical, and sometimes rather harsh, but it fills me with joy that the overwhelming majority of residents in Shit’s ville area are making a huge effort to kick this bug into touch

************************

But… kids and adults will be masked?? Candy can be left outside? There are ways to do it around it

***********************

“Fuckem just do it we got to get on with are lives”

Response

“not an attitude to take during these worrying times. I accept we have to get on with life, but safety has to come first”.
************************

The most relevant news you could give us is the number of people in local hospitals with Covid-19, and what plans the Shitshire NHS has in place to deal with further admittance? The other figures given today do not manifest into tangible effects until about 3 weeks later. So we expect to see a rise in hospital admissions and that info would be most important to us.

***********************

This is no longer news.There will be daily case increases.
We will have to live with this Covid-19 for years to come until when or if ever we get a vaccine.
The blame it seems is in hospitality and the public mixing with others spreading the virus
Asymptomatic people are getting away with it without blame
Isolating just symptomatic people is not enough….. We need to start testing on prisoners to speed up the vaccine process

*********************************

That is a truly disgusting comment, as long as those 40k don’t include your relatives or friends then I guess it’s fine ? Absolutely sick

1. It’s 65,000 excess deaths out of an estimated 8% of the population who’ve been infected. Do the maths. Don’t assume herd immunity.
2. A retired lawyer friend has pointed out that in her entire career she has only ever seen about 5 death certificates with only one cause of death. And that was for explosion.
3. To be blunt, death or Long Covid are longer reaching effects than losing your job unless you don’t expect to get another ever again. I’d rather lose my job than be responsible for someone dying.

*****************************

Holy fuck.

184058 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Two-Six, 3, #1007 of 2450 🔗

Despair

184064 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Two-Six, 11, #1008 of 2450 🔗

If lockdown is the only way. Then do a proper full on lockdown. 2 weeks with immediate effect. No ore warning. Nothing.
Everything stops for 2 weeks and I mean everything. Not a thing is open. You cannot go out at all.
If you need food the army will deliver a food parcel. If you need medical help. Then the army will send a doctor. Nothing else out.
Otherwise. What’s the point in a soft one..”

Yes, that would work – for two weeks. Then what? Back to square one!

184142 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tenchy, 7, #1009 of 2450 🔗

The army can deliver food parcels to 67 million people can they?

Who’s generating your electricity, cleaning up your sewage, piping in clean drinking water, producing and packing all your f*cking food and medicines for f*cks sake?

What if you need hospital treatment? Presumably they’re all closed too. How many people will die at home without? Thousands per day.

184173 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1010 of 2450 🔗

“True lockdown has not been tried!”

184223 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to DRW, #1011 of 2450 🔗

“Just one more try.”

184213 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #1012 of 2450 🔗

This is the trouble isn’t it? Governments really cannot micro-manage economies. They’re just too complex.

And it never ceases to amaze me how many people seem to think we have an Army of millions and millions, able to take over the functions of society (which is currently undertaken by 30-odd million of us) at the drop of a hat. The total number of personnel in all THREE Services is 150,000

184219 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #1013 of 2450 🔗

Not to mention the specialist knowledge necessary. I’m sure there are people in the army with skills in electrical, mechanical and civil engineering to keep some infrastructure running. Maybe a town or small city, but no way the whole country.

It’s just delusional talk from people who don’t understand that the economy is something that has evolved over 10+ thousand years, perhaps since the first use of tools or discovery of fire.

184264 ▶▶▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1014 of 2450 🔗

All you can do is despair at the lack of brain cells these people have. They must think that it is magic when ever they switch on a light, turn on the heating or run a tap. Too many people are way beyond help now, they are so convinced of the bogey man there is no way out. When ever I go out I am reminded of the film Stepford Wives, all I see are automatons going about their masked up business looking like the frigging idiots they are!. Harsh but true.

184066 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Two-Six, 4, #1015 of 2450 🔗

A retired lawyer friend has pointed out that in her entire career she has only ever seen about 5 death certificates with only one cause of death. And that was for explosion.

Sorry, but some things just tickle my (often inappropriate) sense of humour. For those who who find my sense of humour a tad cruel, you can take comfort in the fact that it’ll take weeks to get all the coffee out from my keyboard…

184116 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1016 of 2450 🔗

Lol! Was it explosion singular or plural?

184067 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Two-Six, 3, #1017 of 2450 🔗

But wait until they realise they can’t get blood tests, or they can’t have the flu jab. I don’t take the latter but the NHS has run out in my area and that is that. This is because the panic has caused a greater uptake. The lack of blood tests for things like Wharfrin is potentially catastrophic. The fools you quote are in for a rude awakening.

184068 ▶▶ IsabelleG, replying to Two-Six, 12, #1018 of 2450 🔗

Locking down everyone and everything for two weeks?! Guess that particular person doesn’t require fresh water, a functioning power and internet grid, rubbish collections or food production… These people can’t think five yards ahead…

184074 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to IsabelleG, 2, #1019 of 2450 🔗

He thinks the Army can do all that.

184085 ▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to IsabelleG, #1020 of 2450 🔗

I’d happily shut the power off to get two weeks off my current shit show of a Utility job. I do say in jest of course (sort of).

184221 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to JHuntz, 1, #1021 of 2450 🔗

Now we know who keeps the sewers moving… (joking…)

184070 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Two-Six, 2, #1022 of 2450 🔗

Jeremy Vine lets these fuckwits chat on his show but only so they can expose themselves as morons and so harm whatever point they are trying to make.

184181 ▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to karenovirus, #1023 of 2450 🔗

That’s the benefit of free speech: The idiots get to out themselves.

184072 ▶▶ Crazy Times, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1024 of 2450 🔗

They just want another government funded 2 week holiday.

184073 ▶▶ jakehadlee, replying to Two-Six, 4, #1025 of 2450 🔗

When the Covid Cult collapses in on itself and Second Wave of mass hysteria is over they are all going to wake up with a terrible, terrible hangover and have to look at what they supported, and what they did. I almost feel sorry for them.

184224 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to jakehadlee, 1, #1026 of 2450 🔗

Bloody hell, I don’t!!

184133 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Two-Six, 4, #1027 of 2450 🔗

just remember how stupid the average person is, then realise that 50 % of the population are more stupid than that average person .

184167 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Two-Six, #1028 of 2450 🔗

Poor you living with that lot.

No idea what my area is like, never looked at anything local like that. Maybe I should.

184204 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Two-Six, #1029 of 2450 🔗

I presume that these idiots think that the virus will disappear in those two weeks.

184065 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 12, #1030 of 2450 🔗

Maske macht frei!
Germany’s lockdown, mask and mandatory vaccination hardliner and zealot No1, the Bavarian MP Soeder, who could disastrously also well become its next chancellor, is calling for more mandatory mask wearing, with the ridiculous and history-laden argument that more mask wearing means more freedom.
For Germans, Jews and prosecuted dissidents everywhere, that absurd statement should ring a loud warning bell.
https://www.br.de/nachrichte/bayern/soeder-will-erweiterte-maskenpflichten-ueberall-in-deutschland,SDHv5qy
I can’t eat as much as I have to puke.

184202 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #1031 of 2450 🔗

Yes, when you reached “macht frei” I was getting a shiver or two!

184075 Banjones, replying to Banjones, 4, #1032 of 2450 🔗

I realise I may have missed it – but why isn’t it said that these ”covid hospital admissions” could be people who are primarily going to hospital WITH OTHER ILLNESSES, and that tests on admission, being done as a matter of course, result in many (often false) positives? Therefore the numbers are included on the ”covid admission” list, inflating those figures nicely.

Or have I missed something?

184132 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Banjones, #1033 of 2450 🔗

As I just commented above, yes, crucial to the whole edifice and needs urgent investigation. Not sure how we can get this started though?

184172 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Banjones, #1034 of 2450 🔗

You’ve missed nothing. It is evilly dishonest.

184076 Mark, replying to Mark, 5, #1035 of 2450 🔗

Hate speech crackdown- Message from the UK constabulary.
Officially it’s comedy. In reality, it’s better, more important, and more accurate reporting and analysis than you’ll get on the BBC or in the Times or the Guardian.

184115 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Mark, 1, #1036 of 2450 🔗

Andrew Lawrence has kept me sane and laughing for months. He deserves a medal!

184131 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Mark, 1, #1037 of 2450 🔗

Can we not have a crackdown on the misuse of the English language? ‘Hate’ is not an adjective.

When people use this type of terminology it is immediately apparent they are in Noddy land.

184144 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #1038 of 2450 🔗

And you can’t get a job “in cyber”.

184080 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 5, #1039 of 2450 🔗

https://twitter.com/ClareCraigPath/status/1315966137499291649

I would have thought A&E attendances for acute respiratory infections would be a good indicator of what’s really going on. They have been below normal levels except for two weeks in September. So the rising hospital ‘admissions’ are not presenting to A&E with breathing problems

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/925000/EDSSSBulletin2020wk40.pdf

Yes. Every patient is screened on admission regardless of what they came in for. Some will die of what they came to hospital for and will be counted as COVID deaths even if they never had a single symptom.

184098 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1040 of 2450 🔗

That should be headline of the month

184109 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1041 of 2450 🔗

I was wondering how many people have been admitted to hospital with covid symptoms only.

Stop the testing and it is all over

184126 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1042 of 2450 🔗

This is such a massive issue and a huge lie if it turns out to be significant. How can we get this investigated? Looks like one for Heneghan to me. Can’t believe he’s not already on it to be honest.

184336 ▶▶▶ kenadams, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1043 of 2450 🔗

It’s definitely true. My wife and I are going into hospital on Thursday because she is having a c-section. We’ve both just taken covid tests. I guess if I’m ‘positive’ I just won’t be allowed to be at the birth of my child (I think, although don’t quote me on that, I’m not actually sure). But, I assume they’d still take my wife in even if she was positive. Which would mean she would be a ‘covid hospital patient’. When she is safely discharged the day after the routine surgery and covid having had nothing to do with it, the media, of course, won’t pick up on the discharge of a covid patient!

184087 GPH, 1, #1044 of 2450 🔗

I’ve read that the average age for dying with/of CV19 is currently 82.4. Am I correct that this is for England and Wales? Is there a similar statistic for average comorbidities?

184093 James Leary #KBF, 6, #1045 of 2450 🔗

Yes …. well ….

184094 Victoria, 6, #1046 of 2450 🔗

Simon Dolan:

Our case [injunction] will be heard on Thursday 15 October in Court no.2 with an overspill court video-linked to the main court, which will be court no.19. Case number is: CO/3546/2020 [the appeal is on 29th October]

https://twitter.com/simondolan/status/1315699228845510657

184095 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 16, #1047 of 2450 🔗

Somebody on here was wondering yesterday why the WHO had changed its mind about lockdown. Now we learn why Nabarro was insisting that lockdowns are bad, terrible, worst policy ever:

https://twitter.com/Wesht_Lad/status/1315941436655906817

Lawyers Suing WHO for ‘Crimes Against Humanity’ Over COVID Lockdowns

Wheels fall off the bus one by one, one by one, one by one…

184121 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Nick Rose, 13, #1048 of 2450 🔗

Great information.

International lawsuit seeks damages from World Health Organization over lockdown measures

An international group of lawyers is preparing a massive lawsuit against the World Health Organization that seeks damages for populations negatively impacted by COVID-19 lockdowns, citing “crimes against humanity.”

The attorneys, led by California-based German lawyer Dr. Reiner Fuellmich , are demanding the pubic receives “full compensation for their losses” if they have been “harmed” by coronavirus lockdown measures.

Dr. Fuellmich explains the case in a lengthy video released on October 3:

“Under the rules of civil tort law, all those who have been harmed by these PCR test-induced lockdowns are entitled to receive full compensation for their losses,” Fuellmich says.

“In particular, there is a duty to compensate, i.e. a duty to pay damages for the loss of profits suffered by companies and self-employed persons as a result of the lockdown and other measures.”

Fuellmich’s team argues that PCR tests, as promoted by the WHO and numerous public health officials, are to blame for the lockdowns.

Contrary to assertions by the WHO, German virologist Christian Drosten and Lothar Wieler of the German Robert Koch-Institut (roughly equivalent to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention), PCR tests “do not give any indication of an infection with any virus, let alone an infection with SARS-CoV-2,” Fuellmich said.

“Not only are PCR tests expressly not approved for diagnostic purposes, as is correctly noted on leaflets coming with these tests, and as the inventor of the PCR test, Kary Mullis, has repeatedly emphasized,” he continued.

“Instead, they are simply incapable of diagnosing any disease.”

“Contrary to the assertions of Drosten, Wieler and the WHO, which they have been making since the proclamation of the pandemic, a positive PCR test result does not mean that an infection is present,” Fuellmich emphasized.

“If someone tests positive, it does not mean that they are infected with anything, let alone with a contagious SARS-CoV-2 virus.”

While class action lawsuits are not an option in most of the world, Fuellmich and his colleagues want to go to court in the United States or Canada, where this special type of lawsuit is a regular part of legal practice.

This class action lawsuit can then be joined by “all affected parties worldwide .”

“Through an international lawyers’ network which is growing larger by the day, the German group of attorneys provides to all of their colleagues in all other countries — free of charge — all relevant information, including expert opinions and testimonies of experts showing that the PCR tests cannot detect infections,” he announced.

https://neonnettle.com/news/12868-lawyers-suing-who-for-crimes-against-humanity-over-covid-lockdowns

184149 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Victoria, 4, #1049 of 2450 🔗

Yes, good one.
Also there’s our own Simon Dolan’s action:
https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/lockdownlegalchallenge/

184176 ▶▶ paulito, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #1050 of 2450 🔗

Could be the threat of the lawsuit or just more psychological bullying from these disgusting cretins. Story comes from Ireland first about gov rejecting “experts” advice about full national lockdown, then the WHO saying lockdown shouldn’t be the ” primary” measure for Gov to take. Finally Johnson allegedly faced down SAGE. Are we supposed to be grateful to these bastardss for not locking up the whole country. I’d like to think this represents a change of tack, but I don’t trust these people as far as I could throw them. In the case of the right dishonourable Tubs de Piffle Johnson, that would mean not all.

184186 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to paulito, 3, #1051 of 2450 🔗

‘Johnson faced down SAGE’

Trying to make Johnson into the ‘good cop’ with SAGE the ‘bad cop’

184294 ▶▶▶▶ paulito, replying to calchas, #1052 of 2450 🔗

I think so. Meanwhile Tubs and his partners in crime keep bullying and threatening us with their tiers and levels and other bullshit measures.

184357 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to calchas, #1053 of 2450 🔗

That’s my first impression too.

184196 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to paulito, 2, #1054 of 2450 🔗

They must be looking for a way out from it. They know discontent is growing and it’s only a matter of time before somebody with plenty of clout steps forward.

184227 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1055 of 2450 🔗

I don’t think they want a way out, just trying to keep the masses bought into the shit.

184102 Jules, 4, #1056 of 2450 🔗

Government scientists have a patchy record. The current UK crop are clearly from the Trofim Lysenko school of dodgy research based murder.

184104 FrankiiB, replying to FrankiiB, 6, #1057 of 2450 🔗

Next fight

Reading between the lines, Boris is totally out of his depth and pulled in different directions. Hence this fudge. But the lockdown zealots are angry and campaigning for harsher measures, including through their propaganda outlets, the BBC and the Guardian. Deaths will inevitably rise as they do for flu in winter, even if only a little, and they will use every increase in cases/ deaths to attempt to impose further restrictions, such as masks outside.

They will try to bounce Boris into tighter restrictions. Only continuing the resistance to this onslaught with enough pressure will slow him. It’s all a tug of war about power and influence now.

184146 ▶▶ petgor, replying to FrankiiB, 6, #1058 of 2450 🔗

The biggest worry is that the government will without doubt, conflate winter flu figures with Covid.

184184 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to petgor, 2, #1059 of 2450 🔗

We must watch them – and analyse – like hawks.

184106 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 20, #1060 of 2450 🔗

It used to take me an hour or so to read the comments here and check out lockdown sceptic posts and tweets elsewhere. Now it takes pretty much all day.

What a LOVELY problem to have! 🤣 🤣 🤣

184890 ▶▶ annie, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1061 of 2450 🔗

Agree.But mind you don’t overdo it. It can be addictive, and some people’s pessimism can start getting you down. Have a change of activity from time to time.
I spent an hour today improving our canter track by spraying DANDELIONS with weed-killer.In two day’s time they will all be dead.This thought gives me the utmost satisfaction.

184112 wendyk, 2, #1062 of 2450 🔗

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/10/13/we-have-to-get-out-of-this-spiral-of-authoritarianism/

Spiked: BON on the crucial matter of informed consent, which conveniently ,has been withheld from the public.

The gulf between the largely affluent lockdown apostles and the less well connected and far less well remunerated ,grows and grows, with those at the bottom denied a voice and bearing the brunt of the damage, as in the austerity years, which are now making a come back under a new name.

184120 Nick Rose, 18, #1063 of 2450 🔗

Mike Yeadon has a message for the SAGE Committee:

https://twitter.com/MichaelYeadon3/status/1315770751023284224

I do not know how these people can sleep at night. They’re lying to you. After 30y plus of getting immersed in complex data sets, I’ve never been more secure in my view.

SAGE is replete with people who surely know they’re way out of their depth.

JUST RESIGN. All of you.

184122 Schrodinger, replying to Schrodinger, 12, #1064 of 2450 🔗

Many months ago on Facebook I posted that the data, even then, did not support the Covid-19 narrative and that Covid-19 was little different to flu in severity. I received a lot of abuse and some people screamed ‘Granny killer’ (or something similar) before they unfriended themselves.

Well here you go – a recent new study of nearly 200K hospitalised patients
“Comparison of influenza type A and B with COVID‐19: A global systematic review and meta‐analysis on clinical, laboratory and radiographic findings”
75K with COVID‐19 infection, 113K with influenza type A and 9K with influenza type B analysed

Case fatality rate of hospitalised patients
* with COVID‐19: 6.5%
* influenza type A: 6%
* influenza type B: 3%

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/rmv.2179

Seems to me that case fatality rates of Covid19 patients (and bear in mind that many CV19 patients died ‘with’ Covid not ‘because of it’) are very, very similar. Then add on all the collateral deaths from the actions taken and please explain to this simple village idiot how any of this makes sense.

184128 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Schrodinger, 4, #1065 of 2450 🔗

I’m with you on the abusive insults from others. I remember the early days well, when contributors (other sites) believed you were some sort of national traitor if you dared express a sceptical view.

How times are changed.

184290 ▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1066 of 2450 🔗

I often comment on BrexitFacts4EU site. I always wrote that Lockdown was insane, and that it would kill more people than it would cure – particularly the poor of the Third World. Commendably, that site has always been dominated by sceptics such as myself (and Patrick who I see is on here today), both writers and commentators. I think that comes from our hard battles to get Brexit done, our resulting disillusion with politicians and their respect for democracy, and, with an alliance of both Left and Right on there, our strong independence of thought.

Early on, it was far more of a battle on Sir John Redwood’s site (perhaps only 20% sceptic at first) – but now it must be 90%+ sceptic; and we have pretty much won Sir John over, who, too, is even beginning to veer into ‘conspiracy’ territory – see ‘Build Back Better’ recently.

Slowly the facts are winning the day.
Keep on buggering on.

184139 ▶▶ petgor, replying to Schrodinger, 3, #1067 of 2450 🔗

If not yet arrived, I believe that we are getting close to the government enabling euthanasia by stealth.

184157 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to petgor, 4, #1068 of 2450 🔗

I don’t think they are trying to HIDE the numbers they kill, they want to INFLATE THEM!

184125 Sir Patrick Vaccine, 4, #1069 of 2450 🔗

Corona – figures and fakery – from Comment Central
OCTOBER 13, 2020 IN HEALTH BY SEAN WALSH

https://commentcentral.co.uk/corona-figures-and-fakery/

<i>This is the real form of dishonesty that this government needs to address. The fakery at the heart of it. The manipulations by Hancock and Johnson, the disgraceful violations against statistics and language, have been itemised by mathematicians such as Carl Heneghan; in epidemiology by Professor Sunetra Gupta and Dr John Lee; and “in the round” by the wonderful work done by Will Jones and Toby Young at ‘lockdown sceptics’. ……………………………..

The government’s Corona strategy was wrong at the outset, given that the “outset” was several months after C-19 was showing up in the European sewage systems. Viruses, when they are endemic (as this one has been since November) do not respect government graphs. I suspect that Mr Johnson knows this and would love to be helped out of his embarrassment.</i>

184135 nocheesegromit, replying to nocheesegromit, #1070 of 2450 🔗

Would anyone be able to help with some sources for the following? I’ve done extensive searches but am starting to lose the will to live!

  • Number of excess deaths from March-June 2020 (I am trying to compare this to the excess deaths seen over the winters of 1999/2000 and 2017/18)
  • PCR cycles being run at 45 when they should be 30 and why this is an issue

TIA

184151 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to steve_w, #1072 of 2450 🔗

It was posted on here recently that WHO recommend 45 or 50 but I haven’t verified this.

184160 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1073 of 2450 🔗

45-50! I thought that 45 was the maximum anybody would run to. At 50 cycles a pavement would test positive….Oh wait.

184164 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to nocheesegromit, 1, #1074 of 2450 🔗

I haven’t listened or read all of his on Youtube, but he has many of the answers where stats are concerned: Ivor Cummins.

And Dr Mike Yeadon wrote about the tests, I think on this site a few weeks ago.

184212 ▶▶ DeepBlueYonder, replying to nocheesegromit, 2, #1075 of 2450 🔗

I have submitted a FoI request to Public Health England, as follows:

In respect of all Pillar 1 and Pillar 2 PCR (polymerase chain reaction) testing for the coronavirus SARS-CoV2 between 1 March 2020 and 28 September 2020, could you please advise:

(i) what definition has been used to determine that a test is ‘positive’
(ii) what the range, mean, median, and modal number of amplification cycles was used as the threshold in relation to ‘positive’ PCR tests.

184232 ▶▶ RickH, replying to nocheesegromit, 2, #1076 of 2450 🔗

My hobby-horse:

Forget ‘excess deaths’. It’s a term that is like scotch mist – you can’t get hold of it in any meaningful way. It’s a convention that is meaningless and pliable.

You can, however, talk sensibly about the variation in mortality over a representative period.

I can’t do March-June without extensive recalculation – but here are the totals for Weeks 1-30 for the years 1993-2020 (read in row format, not columns)

329333 323736 327801 329325 337924 324807 331910 323478 313364 314481 314260 305482 307739 300892 295382 294797 294701 289310 285581 292597 306166 290114 322724 308825 315419 329794 309584 371150

Corrected for population (into % mortality) this is :

0.6459 0.6333 0.6393 0.6406 0.6554 0.6280 0.6391 0.6204 0.5985 0.5978 0.5945 0.5747 0.5744 0.5577 0.5431 0.5375 0.5335 0.5195 0.5084 0.5173 0.5376 0.5053 0.5622 0.5297 0.5369 0.5579 0.5208 0.6201

This is more representative than just March-June, which will highlight the sharp April spike for 2020

There’s a lot of primers on PCR testing. Here might be a start :

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/pcr-positives-what-do-they-mean/

The issue of 30 v.45 amplification cycles is simply that the ration of noise to signal (in terms of significant fragments of RNA) increases exponentially – so that you are far more likely to create a ‘positive’ that has absolutely no relevance in terms of real infection.

184158 Awkward Git, 23, #1077 of 2450 🔗

Disturbing discussion, was checking my e-mails on the mobile when the person I was talking to asked who’s that, few from them today? Secret girlfriend?

I said, no it’s people I’m sending info to on what is happening for court cases against the government, FOI answers, info for starting a treason investigation, info for starting a care home genocide and crimes against humanity trial going and so on.

Their answer? “You’ll be carted off one day and forgotten about in a cell somewhere.”.

I told them if this happens then it means I was right all along, freedom is dead and buried and we live in a totalitarian dictatorship won’t it?

They looked shocked that the UK was that close to it happening, they never thought about it before that moment.

184161 John P, replying to John P, 7, #1078 of 2450 🔗

Great piece in Spiked by Brendan O’Neill.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/10/13/we-have-to-get-out-of-this-spiral-of-authoritarianism/

Excerpt:

We voted to take back control, and yet it’s hard to remember a time when people were less in control of their lives than they are right now. This is the tragedy, and the failure, of the Boris Johnson government. It was swept to power on a wave of democratic yearning, on a people’s tiredness of life under the diktats and decrees of bureaucrats and self-styled experts. And where have we ended up? In a situation where every facet of our existences – from where we’re allowed to go to which loved ones we may hug – is governed in minute detail by long, dry decrees drawn up by the powerful and well-educated. Take back control? I’ve never felt more controlled in my life.

Brendan has been another rock throughout this madness.

Actually, what he is saying here is why I voted Remain – I was afraid that the slogan “take back control” was just a con, and it was really just a ruse for a power grab by Westminster politicians. But even I never anticipated that it would be quite as bad as this!

(I’m not a “remainiac”, however, I eventually reasoned that we should leave the EU. I’m much more Eurosceptic these days.)

184179 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to John P, 6, #1079 of 2450 🔗

I voted remain because I could see the trouble that we would be letting ourselves in for. Especially with the country being managed by these evil crooked duplicitous fools in power right now. I knew the EU and everybody else “in the world” would not just let us slip out the back door quietly without getting beaten to a pulp.

This is why we have this trynany now. The UK dictatorship has to shut down any sort of political discourse and democracy and cause chaos They need a smokescreen too to re-organise EVERYTHING. They knew The Corona Project was going to happen like many other people did. EVIDENTLY.

The “Conservative Party”-(Mi6) knew this was their window of opportunity to “Get Brexit Done. Meaning “to weave ourselves into this new WTO/UN Corporate Cabal/New world Order.

Call me a conspiracy theorist if you like. Go on.

184185 ▶▶ RickH, replying to John P, 3, #1080 of 2450 🔗

“why I voted Remain – I was afraid that the slogan “take back control” was just a con”

Of course it was, and that shaped my wider reasoning – especially when I looked at the deviousness of many of the backers of ‘Leave’ who were simply looking to make a pile of dosh out of the fallacies. For me, it was nothing to do with any starry-eyed vision of the EU’s current institutions – just a recognition of geographical reality and an aversion to sell out completely to the dominance of the US.

But that’s bye-the-bye now, with Brexit revealed as the illusional irrelevance it always was, and the curtains parting to reveal the underlying power plays that were always the issue – and, in parallel, the true dimensions of the pretend ‘democrats’ like Johnson and Starmer who have hitched a ride with lip-service to the concepts of a free society : two peas in a WEF pod.

We are now up against the real fundamental political issues, where the traditional fuzziness of ‘left’ and ‘right’ is increasingly irrelevant as the actual and real opposition of liberty (and democracy) against authoritarianism becomes dominant.

The opposition of those essential concepts manifests itself across any left/right dimension – with both dictatorial communism and wild free market domination by monopolistic global capital being absolutely antithetical to both democracy and liberty.

This should be the focus of current political discourse.

184244 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to RickH, #1081 of 2450 🔗

Very well put, Rick. We agree that ‘right’ and ‘left’ are now redundant terms. We know a lot of people think the dystopian future rapidly being unveiled is a form of communism and we can see the parallels with China and Soviet Russia but we just call it totalitarian or ‘Globo-Cap’ (WEF-style corporatism on steroids). It really is all about money, power and control. Whatever it is, it’s nothing like ‘true’ communism which is doubtless too utopian to be realistic. MW

184474 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to RickH, #1082 of 2450 🔗

We are under the dominance of the USA whether we are in the EU or not.We have just cut out the middle man. This has nothing to do with Brexit as it affects the whole world

184163 Banjones, #1083 of 2450 🔗

I am surprised that these two petitions are growing strangely slowly. I wonder why? Or am I beginning to see conspiracies everywhere?
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/331430
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/323442

and there’s also the other, following on from the nurse’s letter a couple of days ago:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/550598

We know they don’t do any good – but at least they allow us to see we’re not alone.

184165 Leemc23, replying to Leemc23, 2, #1084 of 2450 🔗
184190 ▶▶ anon, replying to Leemc23, 3, #1085 of 2450 🔗

dead eyes lying straight to your face

despicable creature

184235 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Leemc23, #1086 of 2450 🔗

Carl Vernon
Lies or CONFUSION about vitamin D

184168 DRW, replying to DRW, 6, #1087 of 2450 🔗

Just saying I don’t enjoy being on Team Pessimism here, it just feels like the more realistic
outlook. One of the reasons I’m on here is to be proven wrong- I welcome any good news and do admire the optimists. But it’s an endless cycle of some encouragement followed by greater disappointment. I don’t think the masses will ever wake up, they only think as filtered by MSM. Yes, there have been improvements, such as increasingly sceptical online comments, but we are still a minority and up against what is at least an international consensus-driven agenda. And with mass dodgy vaccination planned, time is running out.

184188 ▶▶ Kev, replying to DRW, 5, #1088 of 2450 🔗

The vaccination is not an issue to us unless they try to mandate vaccinations, then we become concerned. My suspicion is a lot of sheep may opt for a vaccination, that is their choice and the results are theirs to bear, Big Pharma will be exempted from claims against any harm.

Those arguing against herd immunity must realise that the very same arguments invalidate the case for vaccines.

184201 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Kev, 2, #1089 of 2450 🔗

It won’t be mandatory by law. But it probably will be for normal life through an ID system.

184206 ▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to DRW, #1090 of 2450 🔗

This vaccine would be subject to more analysis than any other medical measure in history.

For that reason I am sceptical that ther ever will be a vaccine.

Of course, we must be vigilant.

184209 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jo, replying to calchas, 2, #1091 of 2450 🔗

How I wish that were true!

184218 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Jo, #1092 of 2450 🔗

The thing is, that it would have to be rolled out in stages.

As soon as it became available, sceptical researches could get hold of it and literally put it under the microscope.

If a vaccine does come out, then that really is where the rubber meets the road.

184220 ▶▶▶▶ Kev, replying to DRW, 3, #1093 of 2450 🔗

I certainly hope not, but there are a number of prominent people pushing for mandatory vaccinations.

We have already seen several things this year I would have never believed possible, even though I never truly bought into the democracy claim. We only thought we lived in a democracy, now can anyone doubt we really don’t?

184464 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Kev, #1094 of 2450 🔗

It goes against too many restrictions to be mandatory but it will be impossible to maintain a normal life without it.They have told us that much

184258 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Kev, #1095 of 2450 🔗

The same arguments will just be used to justify regular booster shots so unlimited profits for vaccine manufacturers.

184395 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Kev, #1096 of 2450 🔗

I don’t think they will mandate it exactly, they will just make it a requirement do anything in future (starting with internation air travel, then public transport, work etc). Seems to be what Tobias Ellwood has in mind, hence my question to try to ferret it out of him:
https://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/10/13/latest-news-161/#comment-184365

184243 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to DRW, #1097 of 2450 🔗

I think you need to get off this page and the internet for a bit. It’s easy to feel pessimistic when it is literally in the MSM’s interest to constantly churn out bad news, day in day out. Just step outside for a bit.

184459 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to DRW, #1098 of 2450 🔗

It’s a race between the implosion of the economy or the vaccine.

184169 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 5, #1099 of 2450 🔗

I see the factcheckers are having a go at the PCR – https://factcheckni.org/articles/can-you-generate-a-positive-result-for-covid-19-from-an-rt-pcr-test/

Posted today. Have they got wind that people are doubting it? What’s the betting this page will get great Google placement?

184279 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1100 of 2450 🔗

These fact checker are self appointed sites normally bankrolled by big organisations, and they spin the facts to suit the narrative.

You are correct will be at the top of the google page.

184387 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Sarigan, #1101 of 2450 🔗

So, from reading that, how does this RT-PCR test tell that this RNA sample is specifically SARS-CoV-2, not any old RNA junk someone may have in their system?

184170 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 10, #1102 of 2450 🔗

“Getting on top of the virus”

What is meant by this?

Decreasing the amount of infections? Keeping the daily rate steady? Slowing down the rate of increase?

I do get a sense that there is still much faith in Niall Ferguson’s prediction of half a million deaths if the virus is kept under control.

For the life of me I can’t see the point of a “circuit break” – even if it caused the rate of infection to dip I’d imagine it would soon be back to the level it was before the ‘break’. What is the proffered justification?

184247 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #1103 of 2450 🔗

Good stuff. There is none. There is no science behind the “science”. There is only the epidemiologists’ version of “stick a tail on a donkey”.

184175 Ewan Duffy, replying to Ewan Duffy, 3, #1104 of 2450 🔗

Today is Budget Day in Ireland. The following statement from Leinster House (the Irish Parliament) is worrying (source RTE.ie):

“Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform Michael McGrath has begun delivering his speech to the Dáil.
He says Covid-19 has changed completely the way we live our lives.

Michael McGrath says the day will come when Covid-19 is behind us and when there is no more talk.
He says things will not go back to the way before and we are committed to making things better.”

The last line is most important one – this is the new abnormal. I’m surprised he didn’t use the term “Build back better” 🙁

184242 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Ewan Duffy, 4, #1105 of 2450 🔗

If they don’t want conspiracy theories they should stop feeding them.

The fact our own benighted Prime Minister uses the “Build Back Better” slogan along with Biden and other leading politicians around the world makes one think it must have been cooked up in Davos or somewhere similar. “Build back better” doesn’t even sound right to an ear brought up on British English.

184251 ▶▶▶ Kev, replying to OKUK, 1, #1106 of 2450 🔗

It originates from the World Economic Forum (WEF)/DAVOS Great Reset initiative which is a Green initiative driven by the Climate Alarmists, people like Klaus Schwab, Gates and Al Gore.

There is absolutely no coincidence that the term is appearing all over the world.

184513 ▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to OKUK, #1107 of 2450 🔗

“Buiwd back better-rer-rer”

184180 calchas, replying to calchas, 3, #1108 of 2450 🔗

So, another story out today about somebody who supposedly died after being ‘reinfected’.

The lockdown case is heavy on anecdote, light on data.

They are always coming out with these little human interest vignettes to keep the fear alive.

184256 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to calchas, 7, #1109 of 2450 🔗

She was 89 and had bone marrow cancer … so in the prime of life and had her whole life ahead of her.

184354 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Chicot, 2, #1110 of 2450 🔗

“It’s not the good that die young, it’s the lucky.”
Mark Twain

184183 kf99, replying to kf99, 3, #1111 of 2450 🔗

The south is not safe after all. True blue tory country!

Essex leaders to ask government for tougher tier two lockdown restrictions

184241 ▶▶ DRW, replying to kf99, #1112 of 2450 🔗

They’re bribing councils to give them another de facto national lockdown as a series of local ones. So far the plan is working.

184451 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to DRW, 1, #1113 of 2450 🔗

Is that the reason.money normally is.

184278 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to kf99, 1, #1114 of 2450 🔗

Virtue signallers?

184191 Janice21, replying to Janice21, 5, #1115 of 2450 🔗

My Mother in law is terrified of Covid 19 (watches news religiously every day). She is 68 with no serious underlying health conditions apart from high blood pressure and a history of ovarian cancer (cancer free for almost 20 years). She is not obese and a healthy fit lady.
What short, simple stats can I quote to her to make her less afraid without going into how the Government are lying, fearmongering bastards.
Thanks in advance.

184200 ▶▶ garry a, replying to Janice21, 5, #1116 of 2450 🔗

Something about the chances of covid killing her vs flu? My mum was sold on the sceptic view when I pointed out that she didn’t know anyone who knew anyone who’d died or even been hospitalised by covid.

184215 ▶▶▶ Janice21, replying to garry a, 1, #1117 of 2450 🔗

Thanks, I dont want to bombard her with too much but have already informed her of the recovery rate and average age/conditions of those who die of it.
There was a man actually local to her who died of/with it in hospital, he was elderly and I’m unsure about any U/L conditions.

184228 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Janice21, 5, #1118 of 2450 🔗

Here are a few things that I have collected from others here that you could sling at your MIL
***********
Normal death rates, not flu, but everyday deaths of all ages as I don’t think people realise that 1600 die daily which makes it around 45,000 a month. Puts the single digit scare stories now in context. The CDC figures or equivalent which show if we treated the risks of everyday life with the chance of dying from this, we would not be able to do anything in life, slipping in the bath or falling downstairs has a higher probability of death yet alone driving or riding a horse.
************
Since 1993, there have been 7 out of 27 seasons with higher mortality (i.e c. 25%). None of them needed the shut-down of society.
***************
Taken with 2018/20 (a weak ‘flu season), the mortality over two years was precisely average.
**************
Ask them to convince you there is a life threatening virus on the loose and how lockdowns

Average mortality age covid19 = 82yrs
Average mortality age worldwide =72yrs
************
Q: How many people under 39 who have died of “IT” since January? A:39
************
Give them this link (2020 ranks only 8th in last 30 years. for excess mortality in UK):
https://hectordrummond.com/2020/07/17/another-jaw-dropping-graph/
*************
Covid currently accounts for just one in a hundred of all deaths in England and Wales
*************
More people die in accidents at home than from covid now. Should we shut down B&Q???

184234 ▶▶▶ Janice21, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1119 of 2450 🔗

Wot this is great, thanks very much

184237 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Janice21, 3, #1120 of 2450 🔗

no worries! I hope it helps her combat her psychosis. I was going to use some of these factoids on a leaflet.

184240 ▶▶▶▶▶ Janice21, replying to Two-Six, #1121 of 2450 🔗

Excellent idea!

185437 ▶▶▶▶▶ Marialta, replying to Two-Six, #1122 of 2450 🔗

We tried to design something simple like this in Eastbourne last week to use at our KBF campaign in the town centre but we got bogged down in detail. We need help if you have expertise?

184250 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Janice21, 6, #1123 of 2450 🔗

I can’t link it, but there is a graph which I have on WhatsApp. Assuming this is still correct your Mother in law is 98.76% likely to make a full recovery. Given only 14% show symptoms I would further reassure her that she is probably unlikely to ever know she had it, if she did get it. And she might already have had it.

If her “good health” is correct her actual odds are 99.95% chance of having to live through this utter cluster F…

If someone offered her an 80% chance of winning the lottery would she buy a ticket ? Those are great odds. If someone said 99.95 you’d have to be delighted. Hope that helps.

184252 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Janice21, 5, #1124 of 2450 🔗

You might want to suggest vitamin D supplements to her. There’s now a lot of evidence that low vitamin D levels are associated with a worse outcome in Covid cases, though our criminal government don’t want to acknowledge it since there’s no money in it for their chums in Big Pharma.

184253 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Janice21, 4, #1125 of 2450 🔗

May I plug my website: https://covid19thelowdown.wordpress.com/ ? I’ve tried to make it as simplistic to understand as possible.

184265 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Janice21, 2, #1126 of 2450 🔗

Hi Janice—-I find one of the most persuasive people around at present is Ivor Cummins. He has a lovely Irish brogue and explains things in a straightforward and systematic way.
If you sit down with your MIL and watch this together I’m sure it will give her a different take on things. It’s had over a million and a half viewings to date. It’s forty minutes long but what’s that with a subject so important?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UvFhIFzaac

The other thing you could do is to get her to stop watching the news and reading the MSM—-that’s probably the biggest thing in itself.

184281 ▶▶▶ Janice21, replying to Harry hopkins, 2, #1127 of 2450 🔗

Thank you yes I will recommend Ivor Cummins to her. May be difficult to sit down with her as she is even slightly fearful of having my husband and I and our children in the house! Which is a real shame especially for the children.
Would be difficult to try to steer her away from the MSM as she has always watched the BBC news for as long as I have known her but I can only try!
Thank you

184296 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #1128 of 2450 🔗

He was mentioned on some MSM comment thread the other day and the next comment was that he’s “a charlatan”. Someone else pointed out that he’s an engineer rather than a scientist. But I think we need a few more engineers involved. He was good on delingpod .

184276 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Janice21, 1, #1129 of 2450 🔗

Watching the news will likely have a negative effect on her blood pressure…ie send it even higher..

184287 ▶▶▶ Janice21, replying to Carrie, 1, #1130 of 2450 🔗

Thats exactly what my husband says! She is almost obsessed by it…..messaging me how a school near her has had 2 people testing positive and its close to home etc. She is a classic example of how the MSM have terrified people.

184284 ▶▶ FenTyger, replying to Janice21, 3, #1131 of 2450 🔗

Push a pin through the TV aerial cable, make sure it shorts then cut the pin head off…… should stop her watching the BBC!
My other half is about the same in health terms and age and we are are not frightened just using common sense. But we did cancel our TV licence in August.

184291 ▶▶▶ Janice21, replying to FenTyger, 2, #1132 of 2450 🔗

ha ha!
I have fairly mild asthma and admittedly I was a little bit frightened at the very beginning but not now at all. Using common sense like you say as well. Ive told my husband we are not paying the licence next February when its up for renewal. No way.

184308 ▶▶▶▶ FenTyger, replying to Janice21, 3, #1133 of 2450 🔗

Good on you. I also have seasonal asthma triggered by cigarette smoke, diesel fumes and heavy perfumes. The place that causes me most problems is the main entrance to our local hospital that smells like an old bus station! Like you I was wheezing a coughing end of Feb and was more than a little concerned. This site is a definite help.

184554 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to FenTyger, #1134 of 2450 🔗

Thats a good idea….the pin/co-axial cable thing….Humm

184193 calchas, replying to calchas, 7, #1135 of 2450 🔗

Sarigan posted this extremely relevant comment below. It deserves reposting.

—————————————–

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/925000/EDSSSBulletin2020wk40.pdf

Yes. Every patient is screened on admission regardless of what they came in for. Some will die of what they came to hospital for and will be counted as COVID deaths even if they never had a single symptom

184194 garry a, replying to garry a, 22, #1137 of 2450 🔗

A little bit of hope up here in Lancashire. There’s a coffee shop my wife and I go to most days to break from work. Neither of us has ever worn a mask and no-one has ever commented. I track and trace using a variety of politicians names and office phone numbers. Everyone else has been depressingly compliant. Today four people came in individually. Two were mask free and two removed their masks when they saw I wasn’t wearing one. We started chatting about nothing in particular. It felt like a normal coffee shop!

184197 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to garry a, 8, #1138 of 2450 🔗

Those little moments are so nice aren’t they?!

184877 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Janice21, #1139 of 2450 🔗

I dimly remember a time when it was always like that. Perhaps I dreamed it.

184198 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to garry a, 7, #1140 of 2450 🔗

Chalk yourself up two Skeptik Stars. Well done.

184195 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 9, #1141 of 2450 🔗

“Since booking your ticket we were contacted by Wrexham Council with regards to the legislation relating to our local lockdown. We have worked closely with the council over the last few days with our mutual aim being to ensure your safety. Please note we had already carried out a thorough COVID-19 risk assessment for all activities prior to recent discussions.

The outcome has been that while PUMPKIN PICKING CAN GO AHEAD AS PLANNED we are UNABLE TO OPEN OUR SPOOKY MAIZE MAZE due to social distancing concerns.”

Bugger. I was looking forward to the thrill of getting lost in the spooky maize maze, with the added threat of catching a soul-chillingly deadly disease simply adding to the frisson of Halloween excitement.

184226 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Mr Dee, 5, #1142 of 2450 🔗

I’ve got a long list of sacrifices ( Bojo,etc) for the biggest wicker man ever.

184874 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Fingerache Philip., #1143 of 2450 🔗

Burn the lot of them in a wicke r d man made of used face nappies.

184199 Allen, replying to Allen, 9, #1144 of 2450 🔗

Everything “targets people with underlying health conditions and the elderly.”

Fascists target the healthy and the young and pretty much everyone.

We don’t need to identify who “Covid” targets we do need to identify and prosecute the fascists who are targeting all of us.

184225 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to Allen, 5, #1145 of 2450 🔗

My Great Grandmother passed away a few years ago aged 103 from Pneumonia, she was a healthy lady of her age and still lived on the family farm. I don’t recall any hype against Pneumonia. Like you say there will always be something that targets this niche of people.

184207 Caramel, 2, #1146 of 2450 🔗

Now here’s a graph.

‘It looks like the mortality in the peak covid week in the UK was no different from that of a normal week in Bulgaria or Hungary.’

https://twitter.com/duncangolicher/status/1312871915011399683

184230 Kev, replying to Kev, 4, #1147 of 2450 🔗

London beware, Sadiq Khan is pushing for tier 2 status, for the whole of London.

184299 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Kev, 2, #1148 of 2450 🔗

The Khanate will be a place of few occasions for happiness except for those who have access to the stately pleasure dome the Great Khan has decreed.

184320 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Kev, 5, #1149 of 2450 🔗

Code for ” I’ve pissed away all the money and this is my only hope for a handout”

184341 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to PoshPanic, 2, #1150 of 2450 🔗

(And Boris had already pissed most of it away)

184378 ▶▶ William Hand, replying to Kev, 1, #1151 of 2450 🔗

Plus masks outside and in the bedroom? Actually my wife likes me being the Lone Ranger in the bedroom, she says it makes her sexy!

184609 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Kev, #1152 of 2450 🔗

He’s a moron who’s just after more money.

Some stats for London:
Deaths in the last week: 22
In hospital: 361
In ICU: 65

Population: 9,340,328 (source: https://populationstat.com/united-kingdom/london )

184233 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 4, #1153 of 2450 🔗

Darren Grimes:

I must admit that I am not used to such silence from the BBC when it comes to attempt to take me to court. It does seem strange that when a former director of public prosecutions, the Home Secretary, the former Chancellor and a host of others … have spoken out about the importance of the law protecting freedom of speech and of the press, and the absurdity of the Met’s actions, that our national broadcaster should stay so silent.

https://twitter.com/darrengrimes_/status/1315972985623392257

184293 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Victoria, 2, #1154 of 2450 🔗

Perhaps the FSU should award a medal each year for Defence and Advancement of Free Speech along with a crowd-funded prize and perhaps Darren Grimes should be its first recipient.

184238 Bartleby, replying to Bartleby, 6, #1155 of 2450 🔗

6 Alternatives to Bedwetters with some effort not to be too insulting.

  • Blakeys (after Blakey from On the Buses – overly officious busy body types).
  • Wombles (seemed pleasant enough creatures from the kids tv show, but definitely prefer to live underground).
  • PAFAs (Panicked, Alarmist, Frightened & Anxious)
  • Indoor Cats (jump at anything, can’t survive outside the house).
  • Sciencologists (has all the appearance of a cult after all and really isn’t scientific).
  • Mackays (Prison warden from Porridge – Mr Mackay, because they really want to lock us down. Played by Fulton Mackay which also makes me think Fultons would be a good term to use.)
184254 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Bartleby, 3, #1156 of 2450 🔗

l like

PAFAs (Panicked, Alarmist, Frightened & Anxious)

184262 ▶▶▶ Bartleby, replying to Victoria, 4, #1157 of 2450 🔗

I think that was my favourite too. It’s factual without being overly insulting but doesn’t sound a very good group to be in does it? People wouldn’t like being labelled it and would have to justify why we shouldn’t consider them a PAFA.

184263 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Bartleby, 1, #1158 of 2450 🔗

Lockdown Lunatics.

Safety Fetishists.

Filthy Face Raggers.

184268 ▶▶ AnotherSceptic, replying to Bartleby, #1159 of 2450 🔗

What about Government Patsy’s?

184285 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to AnotherSceptic, #1160 of 2450 🔗

Virusites?

184338 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Bartleby, 6, #1161 of 2450 🔗

Oh – for fuck’s sake give it a rest.

Who cares about baby playground stuff?

184239 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1162 of 2450 🔗

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/13/uk-government-issues-new-guidance-for-coronavirus-shielders
Ministers said none of the alert levels in place would automatically trigger a warning for those who had shielded before to do so again and stay home at all times.
It follows concerns that those on the shielding list became extremely isolated during that time, with some too fearful to leave their homes for several months.

No change there then!

The government said all those who shielded previously are already helped by wider protection measures not previously in place when shielding was introduced in March, such as the rule of six and face coverings.

That’s a far cry from “No problem. Stay indoors and we’ll bring you food parcels” !!

184870 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, #1163 of 2450 🔗

So total isolation us bad for you.
Who’d have thought it?
Has anybidy told the fiends who isolate helpless elderly people in We Don’t Care Homes?

184259 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 10, #1164 of 2450 🔗

Whatever happened to Steve Baker’s backbone?

He swapped it to become a privy counsellor

https://twitter.com/simondolan/status/1315971320971243521

184270 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Victoria, 2, #1165 of 2450 🔗

Likely an oft-used strategy for silencing Tory rebels..

184277 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Victoria, #1166 of 2450 🔗

Bet May is kicking herself.

184327 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Victoria, 1, #1167 of 2450 🔗
184260 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #1168 of 2450 🔗

I suppose we should be greateful that, while claiming to espouse “The Science,” yesterday dePiffle chose to ignore it.

From The Sage Report, 21st September:

… As over 90% of the population remain susceptible not acting now to reduce cases will result in a very large epidemic with catastrophic consequences in terms of direct COVID related deaths and the ability of the health service to meet needs.

Swayne was right, They should be sacked!

184273 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #1169 of 2450 🔗

The 90% figure is a complete lie, if they mean susceptible to being infected in a way that will compromise their health to a significant degree,

184266 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 18, #1170 of 2450 🔗

Peter Hitchens says the government would be “shivering in fear” if it had received a “proper, blazing beam of scrutiny” against its coronavirus policies.

https://twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/1315608989443461121

Agree. Labour is a massive disappointment, it is not an Opposition Party, rather a roll-over party.

If you are against the lockdown do not EVER vote Labour or Conservative again. They failed the people and decimated the economy.

184288 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Victoria, 2, #1171 of 2450 🔗

Led by that well known Trilateral commission member Sir Keir Starmer

184301 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Victoria, 4, #1172 of 2450 🔗

The people who talk sense and can make a reasonable argument never go into politics. We have shallow egocentrics running this sham of a Parliament now.

184309 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Victoria, 2, #1173 of 2450 🔗

I agree.

184417 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to Victoria, 3, #1174 of 2450 🔗

Sent to Keir Starmer this morning:

I hope you don’t imagine that by sitting on the fence and failing to oppose the Government’s destructive strategy you will somehow restore the ‘Red Wall’ in the North East. No one in this household will ever vote for Labour again.

184267 Lucan Grey, replying to Lucan Grey, 15, #1175 of 2450 🔗

Hancock has just said

“Herd immunity is a flawed goal without a vaccine, even if we could get to it, which we can’t”

So he does think a vaccine is a magic potion of protection then – rather than something that accelerates herd immunity…

184272 ▶▶ Old Mum, replying to Lucan Grey, 4, #1176 of 2450 🔗

Yes, another one that should go now!

184274 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Lucan Grey, 4, #1177 of 2450 🔗

Sweden, Belarus, Tanzania

184282 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Lucan Grey, 6, #1178 of 2450 🔗

The anti-scientists have banned the entire concept of the human immune system.

184318 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to godowneasy, 4, #1179 of 2450 🔗

Yep google on the Vaccine Centre’s mission statement. Totally mad! No role at all for our immune systems evolved over literally billions of years! The Vaccine Centre is based at London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine but Imperial College are closely associated. Total lack of transparency about funding.

184303 ▶▶ AnotherSceptic, replying to Lucan Grey, 7, #1180 of 2450 🔗

Wankcock the smarmy smug wankstain that he is.

184360 ▶▶▶ William Hand, replying to AnotherSceptic, #1181 of 2450 🔗

Language!!!!

184711 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to William Hand, #1182 of 2450 🔗

english

184370 ▶▶▶ Kev, replying to AnotherSceptic, 3, #1183 of 2450 🔗

You actually rate him that highly?

184427 ▶▶▶▶ AnotherSceptic, replying to Kev, 3, #1184 of 2450 🔗

No. I just couldn’t think of more expletives when I posted that comment.

184346 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Lucan Grey, 5, #1185 of 2450 🔗

He has left himself no wiggle room – he has to go if the government is to change course

How does he define herd immunity?

What does “flawed” mean in this context?

Why can herd immunity not be reached without a vaccine?

184347 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Lucan Grey, 6, #1186 of 2450 🔗

How on earth did Homo Sapiens survive for 300,000 years?

184348 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Lucan Grey, 2, #1187 of 2450 🔗

Someone needs to ask this twerp, in a probing way, what was in the UK’s pandemic preparedness plan back in 2019. Did it involve lockdowns? Did it involve trying to achieve herd immunity? I would bet rather a lot that the answers are “no” and “yes” respectively. European countries (except for Sweden, to their credit) have gone down this mad lockdown path for no other reason than that they’ve been copying authoritarian China … and each other.

184275 Jenny, replying to Jenny, 1, #1188 of 2450 🔗

Rupert Beale really laying into Sunetra Gupta, Michael Levitt and Karol Sikora here! Not sure who he is but he isn’t exactly engaging scientifically. Quite nasty.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-scientists-at-war-a4569551.html

184305 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Jenny, 2, #1189 of 2450 🔗

Face to a name (sorry, you can’t see his face)

184313 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1190 of 2450 🔗

.

184322 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to CGL, 2, #1191 of 2450 🔗

Daren’t show his face!

184314 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Sarigan, 7, #1192 of 2450 🔗

Works for the Crick Institute which has a university partnership with Imperial College. Probably a mate of Neils.

184280 Malpractice, 10, #1193 of 2450 🔗

Excellent piece on the uselessness of masks.

Dr Lee Merritt at the recent 38th Conference of Doctors for Disasters Preparedness

https://youtu.be/KZ9Ybmrchn4

184286 Cotton, replying to Cotton, 5, #1194 of 2450 🔗

So our GP practice has said they are no longer providing care for patients unless it is “urgent”. Doubtless they are still expecting to be paid. This same practice had what amounted to a two week break back in September because one of the receptionists tested “positive” and apparently despite wearing PPE that meant everyone had to isolate. This same GP practice basically no longer provides care in person, with everything having to be routed via a website for “triage” and then given a telephone appointment as standard.

What can be done? Contact CCG? Local councillors?

184335 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Cotton, 1, #1195 of 2450 🔗

Contact the CCG or the CQC, preferably the former.

184408 ▶▶ Cotton, replying to Cotton, 1, #1196 of 2450 🔗

How can the area being “high risk” have anything to do with the provision of basic primary care services? Has anyone else in Manchester received this?

184289 PoshPanic, replying to PoshPanic, 4, #1197 of 2450 🔗

The Sun have got the reinfection bug, but at least they’re being back door sceptical, by stating the poor woman was terminally ill.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12918958/woman-first-die-reinfected-coronavirus-59-days-after-infection/

Anyone care to comment on this part?..

She tested positive for the virus and then was also given antibody tests on day four and six.

These both came back negative and on day eight, her condition got worse.

184298 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to PoshPanic, 4, #1198 of 2450 🔗

Right at the start it says she had a compromised immune system.

184306 ▶▶ Jenny, replying to PoshPanic, 4, #1199 of 2450 🔗

Looks to me as though there could have been a false positive in there. Plus, 89 with a compromised immune system….

184319 ▶▶ garry a, replying to PoshPanic, 4, #1200 of 2450 🔗

The comments are a giggle. No-one is buying it

184295 garry a, replying to garry a, 15, #1201 of 2450 🔗

Bedwetter rebrand: Coronies – a group of panicking ageing windbags who are wedded to an evidence-free belief that a virus which kills almost no-one will strike them down immediately if they fail to obey an increasingly bizarre set of unproven rituals.

184321 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to garry a, 2, #1202 of 2450 🔗

Brilliant

184326 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1203 of 2450 🔗

Might be better to do something useful, though.

184364 ▶▶▶▶ garry a, replying to RickH, #1204 of 2450 🔗

Like commenting on a post?

184331 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to AnotherSceptic, 5, #1206 of 2450 🔗

Ferrier has claimed that the infection caused her to act “out of character”.

Another symptom.

184311 captainbeefheart, replying to captainbeefheart, 15, #1207 of 2450 🔗

Reality check: Sitting around coming up with new and novel ways to insult people is going to make fuck all difference.

184355 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to captainbeefheart, 5, #1208 of 2450 🔗

I agree. It’s turning into a very unpleasantly pathetic red herring.

184359 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1209 of 2450 🔗

Quite – it’s just playing the wokistas’ favourite game.

184396 ▶▶ garry a, replying to captainbeefheart, #1210 of 2450 🔗

I think you’re wrong. Do you really think that the term ‘Covidiot’ hasn’t played any part in stopping some doubters from joining the sceptics? Clear messaging is critical. The ‘covidiot’ name has worked well – It captured the mood of a significant proportion of the population and has been played against any sceptical view since. Positioning the ‘bedwetters’ in the right way will help the cause.

184439 ▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to garry a, 1, #1211 of 2450 🔗

No, it won’t. It will make you look as childish as the people that use “covidiots” as if they’re really clever for repeating a tired, worn-out cliché

184315 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #1212 of 2450 🔗

How’s the northern power house doing. Are they paying the price for the large Chinese investment in the area, ie hoping for even more investment/controlled society.

184324 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Dan Clarke, 5, #1213 of 2450 🔗

More paying the price for years of Tory neglect and industrial destruction in favour of funny money, actually.

184358 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to RickH, 1, #1214 of 2450 🔗

Yes, because, under Bliar and Brown, the North led the world in innovation and quality of life!?

184708 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to RickH, -2, #1215 of 2450 🔗

why do you socialists think Government knows how to make money? Here you are shitting on the government for their response to this virus on one hand then you’re demanding they get involved in business with the other. Socialists like you are very silly and any time you get near power you fuck it up big style. It’s almost like you refuse to accept that what you’ve believed all your life is total pish and wish to keep making the same mistakes over and over as some kind of fucking sick pleasure

184630 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Dan Clarke, #1216 of 2450 🔗

Thanks for that. We have wondered for years what the mania for building tower blocks in Manchester was about. MW

184317 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 10, #1217 of 2450 🔗

Our elder granddaughter is a waitress in a pub.
My wife asked how she was getting on?
“The only difference is now the drunks make their appearances around 8:30 instead of 11pm to midnight.
You really have to admire the intelligence of our government.

184353 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #1218 of 2450 🔗

I was shocked that they didn’t have the wit to allow some drinking up time.
Surely it was clear to any NORMAL person that calling time and closing at the same time would throw everyone onto the streets at once.
Is it because the rulemakers only drink in “gentleman’s clubs”?

184411 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1219 of 2450 🔗

Gentlemen?????????

184323 First Minister of Bubbledom, replying to First Minister of Bubbledom, 3, #1220 of 2450 🔗

So masks work in shops and hospitality but not in cars…?
“… the virus could spread “quickly and easily” in cars, even if people wore face coverings.”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-54522374

184345 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to First Minister of Bubbledom, 1, #1221 of 2450 🔗

The worst thing is that some idiots will think that’s logical and will become traffic hazards as a result.

Is that why the tier 2 guidance says to walk or cycle everywhere?

184362 ▶▶▶ Kev, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1222 of 2450 🔗

Or roadkill

184614 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1223 of 2450 🔗

That would be the Great Green Reset in action. But quite a few Dandelions wear masks in cars round here. Even some taxi-drivers wear them. Hardly reassuring for us cyclists, all those oxygen-deprived psychos on the roads. MW

184372 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to First Minister of Bubbledom, 1, #1224 of 2450 🔗

From the report:

Last week, NHS Western Isles enlisted the help of local band Peat & Diesel to get a hand hygiene message stuck in islanders’ heads.

The tongue-in-cheek tune, and an accompanying video, have also been made to lift spirits following a Covid-19 outbreak on the isles.

The song, That’s The Way We Wash Them, has been released online.

Who do these gits think they are addressing – a bunch of bloody five years olds? It’s enough to make you puke.

184374 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to First Minister of Bubbledom, 6, #1225 of 2450 🔗

People driving with masks on are a danger. Hypoxia can lead to brain fog, dizziness and passing out, so be very careful when you see them. Wonder if their insurance companies will cover them when they have an accident with a mask on.

184620 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Victoria, #1226 of 2450 🔗

Yes, it worries me too. I wonder if we’ll ever be able to see statistics for how many RTAs are brought about by mask-wearing. As I posted above, a lot of drivers are now wearing them, many very elderly by the look of them. This can not go well. MW

184328 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 11, #1227 of 2450 🔗

Ian Collins on Talk Radio just made me spit out my coffee!

Said that Whitty looked ‘like a terrified Swan Vesta match’ yesterday. So true.

184332 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 7, #1228 of 2450 🔗

Another great comment I saw today:

NZ is now cut off from the world for years .. it’s like The Eden Project on a national scale… see you guys in 2025!!

184352 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Sarigan, 3, #1229 of 2450 🔗

Somehow I think that the rest of the world will bravely struggle through the resultant privations!

184383 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Sarigan, #1230 of 2450 🔗

Got cousins over there and they seem ok about it, they look at the madness over here and their own lives. They are living as normal, cinema’s shops, theatre’s everything. Films are being made there, after the crews isolate.

184526 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1231 of 2450 🔗

A close member of my family (mid-70s) has developed an unusual, but surprisingly heartening relationship with someone in NZ some time after the death of her husband. It has worked by each of them spending about 4 months in the other country. Bloody marvelous and inspiring.

Now??

Oh yes – NZ is a sterling example.

… of being up your own bum in isolation.

184339 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Sarigan, 3, #1232 of 2450 🔗

A swan vesta match (even a used one) would be of more use than “Witless”

184363 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Sarigan, 3, #1233 of 2450 🔗

Someone should have struck him.

184329 Eddy, replying to Eddy, 7, #1234 of 2450 🔗

The average life expectancy in the UK is 81.16 years
The average age of those who have died from coronavirus in the UK is 82.4 years.

184334 ▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to Eddy, #1235 of 2450 🔗

This is a handy fact I’ve heard a few times. What is your source?

184337 ▶▶▶ Eddy, replying to Andy Riley, 1, #1236 of 2450 🔗

Just google it.

184340 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Eddy, 3, #1237 of 2450 🔗

One thing to note, upon reaching 80 years of age, your average life expectancy is about another 9 years.

However, it’s still slightly disengeneous because we should be looking at what the average life expectancy of an 80 year old with 2.4 comorbities (and preferably cross-reference with susceptibility to Covid). If we have that number, we can much more accurately determine how many years per person are actually being lost.

184344 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Cicatriz, #1238 of 2450 🔗

It’s that sort of statistic known as ‘illusory’.

184351 ▶▶▶ Tommo, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #1239 of 2450 🔗

Ok, you’re going to have to explain that one to me. If you reach 80, then your life expectancy is 89? I’m not sure I follow.

184369 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Tommo, 1, #1240 of 2450 🔗

Average life expectancy is 81.2. That covers everyone who has died to this point, including people who died when young (or very young), which drags the average down quite a bit. Particularly men have a higher tendancy to die in their early to mid adult life. Deaths at a younger age tend to skew the average more – a bit like how CEOs or pro footballers skew average earnings.

You can then perform the same calculation but only on those people who got to 80. When you do that, you find the average life expectancy is closer to 90 because the outliers that pull average down are taken out of the equation.

This can be used to counter the point that Andrew Webb made, but it fails to take into account what the average life expectancy of an 80 year old who is seriously ill is.

184402 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Cicatriz, 3, #1241 of 2450 🔗

Sounds like the same thing as the meme that people only lived to 35 in the middle ages.

The figure in question is the life-expectancy-from-birth, and was dragged down by very high death rates for the under fives and for women giving birth and recovering thereafter.

Life-expectancy-if-you-make-it-to-adulthood would be a far more useful figure for most purposes, I would think.

184443 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Mabel Cow, #1242 of 2450 🔗

Yep, good points.

184399 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Cicatriz, 3, #1243 of 2450 🔗

importantly not just the co-morbidities but their severity. its not the average 80 year old with high blood pressure that’s dying ‘of’ covid. it’s the illest 80 year old with the highest blood pressure

184561 ▶▶▶ Sceptical Lefty, replying to Cicatriz, #1244 of 2450 🔗

Not in most of the North.

184651 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Sceptical Lefty, #1245 of 2450 🔗

Yes, and even worse in Glasgow.

184350 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Eddy, 9, #1246 of 2450 🔗

The average life expectancy in the UK is 81.16 years”

‘Protecting the NHS’ will change that.

184997 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to calchas, #1247 of 2450 🔗

I certainly don’t expect to live that long. I’m in my 60s now.

184529 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Eddy, 1, #1248 of 2450 🔗

Coronavirus must be a health supplement

184333 Mabel Cow, 6, #1249 of 2450 🔗

Further to an earlier request for information about the average age of death-with-COVID, I thought I’d create a chart showing deaths by age.

So, here are the latest ONS deaths-within-28-days-of-testing-positive-for-SARS-CoV-2 , stratified into age bands of twenty years .

Conclusion: Anyone under 40 who is frightened of COVID-19 is a b*dw*tt*r.

184342 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1250 of 2450 🔗

This is what we’re up against:

Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con) It is not surprising that more and more Members are calling for more Government support, because the Government are forcing more and more businesses, particularly in the hospitality sector, out of business. The Chief Secretary says that his priority is to help business. The best way to help businesses is to let them get on and do business. We are going bankrupt as a nation—there will not be the money to pay for the NHS or pensions. What is the Treasury doing to row back against other parts of the Government and insist that we must allow British business to operate? He did not answer the question from the Chairman of the Select Committee, my right hon. Friend the Member for Central Devon (Mel Stride)—what is the scientific evidence for pubs closing at 10 o’clock? Is he leading the fight to help Britain to stay in business?

Steve Barclay With respect, I did answer it. I pointed to the projection given by the chief medical officer and chief scientific adviser at that time, the SAGE guidance and the fact that the package of measures put in place by the Prime Minister has resulted in a lower infection risk. The CMO and others would recognise that this is a range of measures. My right hon. Friend says that the Government have gone too far and that there is no evidence for the curfew. The tenor of most of the questions one gets is that we have not moved far enough and should be taking more drastic actions. That speaks to the fact that this is a balanced judgment. One needs to look at the range of measures we are taking, and that is what I would refer him to.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2020-10-13/debates/CCD65352-6CF4-46D5-980E-214739C92481/PublicHealthRestrictionsGovernmentEconomicSupport

184349 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Cheezilla, 9, #1251 of 2450 🔗

The tenor of most of the questions one gets is that we have not moved far enough and should be taking more drastic actions. That speaks to the fact that this is a balanced judgment.” It’s not a fucking opinion poll or popularity contest. Doesn’t this wanker have a mind of his own?

184377 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #1252 of 2450 🔗

What would it take for him to say “ the projection given by the chief medical officer and chief scientific adviser at that time” turned out to be a load of crap so we are now paying less attention to those busted flushes and letting free people have a drink in a pub?

184343 chaos, 7, #1253 of 2450 🔗

Yesterday in Sweden:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvYUne7TIEQ

Even with the grenades I prefer their new normal. For the moment it seems much better than our wanker Etonian Davos new normal.

184356 Humanity First, replying to Humanity First, 18, #1254 of 2450 🔗

‘Covid 19’ is the trojan horse for mandatory vaccines. Vaccines are the trojan horse for the ‘new normal’/’Great Reset’ society/economy/humanity.

This is why facts and truth about SARS COV 2/COVID 19 (especially who was responsible for its origin and spread and its actual lethality for the general population) are simply of no interest to those determined to see this ‘project ‘ through to its conclusion (which is no less than an attack on the very soul of humanity).

When you knock down one government-sponsored COVID-related lie, ten others spring up in its place.

Meanwhile, the copious human-rights and joy-of-life destroying laws and regulations keep being rolled out according to a methodical and well-planned rhythm by an otherwise ‘incompetent’ government.

The UK seems to be the West’s poster boy for this macabre and sinister operation.

It must be shown to have been a ‘success’ in this land so it can be looked up to a model by others (all cynicism aside, our country is still genuinely admired by many across the globe).

184367 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Humanity First, 2, #1255 of 2450 🔗

Great Post. I could not have said it better.

184361 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 20, #1256 of 2450 🔗

Update from the Wild High Peak: There has been confusion because the MSM says the High Peak is in Level 2 but it turns out it’s just poor old Glossopdale, not the rest of us. Our Useless Tory Boy MP has at least twatted and FB’d this info.  We’re surrounded by Tier 2 so it doesn’t make much difference and UTB is screaming for more tests so it probably won’t be long before we join them.

It was a fabulous sunny morning as we set off for our 11-mile round bike trip to do shopping. ‘Lots of conversations with people in shops and passing by.

One shopkeeper’s daughter at UCL is now banged up because 2, yes that’s 2,.students have ‘tested positive’: ‘One Jewish lad (me neither) is really poorly’ Well, I’m sorry for him but so bloody what? How many students at a huge university go to hospital in an average week? Would we have locked them all in for 2 weeks in the Olden Days? When we argued with him he took his mask off to tell us how many people normally die daily etc so he does actually get it really.

Meanwhile his Dad has it on good authority (the Daily Mail) that if you get the flu jab it means you don’t get CV19 as badly but guess what? There’s a shortage of vaccines. When we said, come on, you’re a businessman, you know that old game don’t you, he laughed his head off!  The latest fear porn the MSM ghouls are peddling is that there’s now a deadly danger of getting flu and covid together. WTAF? But ‘Dad’ swallows it because it’s ‘in the paper’.

Then it started raining – a High Peak special- really wet, heavy rain but at least not coming sideways.

Anyway, we went in lots of shops and supermarkets. 100% zombie-compliance in the supermarkets sadly but a bit less in the small shops. No hassle from anyone at all about our maskless state and even a jolly old zombie making conversation as we loaded up our bikes. AlanG took our 7-month overdue library books back and the Ken running the library was a miserable as sin and made Alan walk out of a different door because it’s too dangerous to use the normal, very wide one.  The buses are still mostly empty; most passengers are obedient, keeping us safe.

Nearly everyone we spoke to today was in the same category. They know there’s something wrong, they are very pissed off but they are all glued to MSM and social media so they are a bit scared that ‘it’ is all around just waiting to get us. It is disconcerting chatting with so many people who are living with cognitive dissonance. No wonder they are looking stressed and I wonder how long it will be before they crack-up. They can’t understand why the Govt doesn’t tell us the truth. Oh well. . . . .

Anyway, we got absolutely p***-wet through and we had to haul our heavy shopping up the steep hill between our last call and home but do you know what? It felt great just to be alive!  We’re old but fit and we’ll keep fighting.  As ever, when we get out, whatever the weather, switch this bloody machine off and breathe some oxygen, move our limbs, we feel free. As I told the last lady I spoke to, a neighbour, they can’t patrol my head yet and she agreed.

p.s. An old, valued and normally very obedient friend rang to say she’s planning to break her lockdown shite to come and see us this week (no names, no pack-drill). Yippeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Bonne courage, mes braves! MW

184366 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 5, #1257 of 2450 🔗

We’re surrounded by Tier 2″

“They’ve got us surrounded again, the poor bastards.” Abrams.
It’s like the Bulge all over again.

184455 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #1258 of 2450 🔗

comment image ?w=1024

184763 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #1259 of 2450 🔗

They’d all be arrested and fined for singing Men of Harlech.

184365 zacaway, 6, #1260 of 2450 🔗

Just got an update from my MP, who I contacted last week, re Tobias Ellwood’s (now notorious among LS) statement in the Commons:
https://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/10/07/latest-news-156/#comment-172395

Thanks for getting back to me and for confirming.

I have now written to Tobias Ellwood to pass on your comments and to ask for his response. I will of course pass you a copy of his reply when I receive it.

Nothing to write home about, but the gears are turning. I’ll update when I get a response.

184368 AnotherSceptic, replying to AnotherSceptic, #1261 of 2450 🔗

https://mobile.twitter.com/RichardBurgon/status/1315920810083835904

This is an MP. Showing what New Zealand is like.

184375 ▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to AnotherSceptic, 1, #1262 of 2450 🔗

Quite. Says it all really.

184391 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to AnotherSceptic, 2, #1263 of 2450 🔗

There are 2 main problems I see with saying we could do what NZ did:

  1. They started from a low base. Getting there from where we are now is likely nigh on impossible without great cost
  2. It’s like saying I managed to get zero covid in my house so therefore it’s possible everywhere

There are many other reasons why it’s unlikely we’d ever get there but these are my main ones.

184410 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1264 of 2450 🔗

New Zealand stopped the spread before it got started.They face the same problem as everyone else if they ever open up again.
The only option is to wait for a vaccine;good luck with that.

184488 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #1265 of 2450 🔗

An dif they ever open up in come the virus.

184394 ▶▶ mjr, replying to AnotherSceptic, 2, #1266 of 2450 🔗

and a buffoon but also this must be the latest labour party message. There was a labour MP on BBC politics at lunchtime also extolling New Zealand and Australia

184403 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to AnotherSceptic, 2, #1267 of 2450 🔗

If you look at the WorldOMeter (even taking what is said is correct), the reason New Zealand is “covid-free” is because they appear to have their second seasonal hump in August and hence hospitalisations are almost gone.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/new-zealand/

So they are getting the same curve that we will get irrespective of what anyone does.

But I wouldn’t expect an MP to think that deeply

184424 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to AnotherSceptic, 5, #1268 of 2450 🔗

Zero fucking covid, stop testing, there you go zero covid. Done

184503 ▶▶ RickH, replying to AnotherSceptic, 1, #1269 of 2450 🔗

Burgon was never the brightest bulb in the chandelier.

This isn’t New Zealand, twat.

… and tiny island NZ has a major problem for ever waiting in the wings.

184563 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to AnotherSceptic, 1, #1270 of 2450 🔗

Interesting mix of views on the comments, quite a few lockdown-fetishists like this berk:

Delaying the inevitable until there’s a vaccine or better treatments seems pretty attractive to be honest, definitely worth missing a few holidays for

but a few sceptics get a look in:

An isolated archipelago at the edge of the world, a population of 4m. Why not look closer to home, Richard – like, say, #Sweden?

Give some hope they are not all lunatics out there.

185253 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to AnotherSceptic, #1271 of 2450 🔗

Have people seen the Wenger event held in a UK theatre yesterday? So why aren’t all theatres open???

184376 chaos, replying to chaos, 8, #1272 of 2450 🔗

1922 committee still allowing the madness to continue. As is Trilateral member and pretend opposition leader Queer Starmer. I don’t think our system has the necessary checks and balances to prevent a coup. A Davos coup. Boris’ father worked for Rockerfeller. He also fucked the au pair (and got her to wear no clothes around his family) and punched his first wife. He wants to save the whales from the plebs. Boris’ teenage girlfriend works for Rockerfeller sea org Oceana. She wants to save the puffins. She’s never met a pleb. Boris wants to save himself. And have sex. He doesn’t understand the plebs but he would have sex with one. Or two.

184382 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to chaos, 5, #1273 of 2450 🔗

Doesn’t sound very promising. Didn’t realise quite how ‘different’ the Johnson family are – naked au pairs et al.

184485 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to chaos, 2, #1274 of 2450 🔗

And Handiwanks wife is part of the aristocracy with links to Her Maj so that give shim an inflated opinion of himself.

185250 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to chaos, 1, #1275 of 2450 🔗

And Stanley Johnson once wrote a novel called ‘The Virus’, as well as a number of books about the need for depopulation…

184380 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 12, #1276 of 2450 🔗

Telegraph live feed. My emphasis:

Belfast hospitals cancel elective surgeries as Covid-19 rages

All elective surgeries have been cancelled across Belfast this week due to a rise in Covid-19 hospital admissions, a source familiar with the plans said today as the devolved government debated whether to impose new restrictions.

Northern Ireland has become one of Europe’s biggest Covid-19 hotspots in recent weeks and its health minister on Friday described the situation as getting more grave by the hour , with further constraints likely to be imposed soon.

The Belfast Health and Social Care Trust, which runs the capital city’s hospitals, cancelled operations, including cancer procedures , for the rest of the week with no timescale as to how long the measures would be in place, reports have said.

The Belfast Trust had no immediate comment on the situation , a spokesman said.

The Belfast Trust can be described using a single word: Bastards.

184400 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Tenchy, 9, #1277 of 2450 🔗

Trusts should not be allowed to cancel operations and procedures without publishing an estimate of excess deaths this is likely to cause and how many beds are currently un-occupied. They’re decision making needs to be fully exposed to critical analysis.

184496 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Achilles, 3, #1278 of 2450 🔗

Forget ‘excess’ deaths. It’s a much-abused nonsense.

There needs to be a clear look at capacity and real infection.

How the f. have hospitals coped with the usual serious nosocomial infections???

184475 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1279 of 2450 🔗

What gets me is that they have the MBC in Queen’s in the city which has one of the best medical research departments in the world. Surely local researchers should have been doing proper measurements on this thing and been able to help the MLAs.

But no. It just seems all political.

The last scandal (RHI) cost over £1B

184860 ▶▶ annie, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1280 of 2450 🔗

‘Murderers’ is a better word.Murderers of cancer sufferers.
People DIE of cancer.Old people, young people, middle-aged people, children. Anybody can get it.
Only a murdering swine would refuse to treat it when treatment is possible.

184384 Mel, replying to Mel, 24, #1281 of 2450 🔗

I am in South Yorkshire, deep in the Fucked section of the map. Just now, just to see how badly we are fucked, I’ve downloaded the spreadsheet showing deaths in hospital, and checked on our local hospital, Barnsley. There have been three deaths with covid in Barnsley hospital in the last 10 days. To find another one I have to go back to September 2nd. No deaths in August. One on the second of July.

That is 5 deaths with covid in 3 and a half months in that hospital, and I am in level 2.

HEAD. BANG. ON. DESK.

184388 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Mel, 5, #1282 of 2450 🔗

Come on folks. Let’s whip round for some Hovis and Clogs and greyhounds. The North needs our help.

184416 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to chaos, 2, #1283 of 2450 🔗

What about the whippets?

184423 ▶▶▶▶ Mel, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1284 of 2450 🔗

I’ve got a cocker spaniel, but she’d love a friend.

184473 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Mel, 2, #1285 of 2450 🔗

Our granddaughters have got a “Sproodle”, any good ?

184422 ▶▶ FlynnQuill, replying to Mel, 3, #1286 of 2450 🔗

I know, it sends you insane thinking about it. Hardly any deaths but the North is in he shite.

184467 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Mel, 6, #1287 of 2450 🔗

I can do better. I live in the area with the largest case rate in Europe. Yes. The North West of NI.

And 27 people have died here in 8 months. 4 since May, all in the last week. 75% of them over the age of 80. Co-morbidities unknown.

It serves a ward of around 260,000.

Testing has increased 400% since August levels here. 85% of cases have been found in the last 4 weeks.

I estimate around a 0.1% CFR just on the broadest application of that measurement.

We have been in level 3 for the past week and the local Stormont government are threatening to go back to full retard and close the schools, 5k travel radius etc.

The local hospital has issued a capacity notice, as it also did January precovid, in 2019 winter, in 2017, in 2015.

Insanity

184491 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Mel, 8, #1288 of 2450 🔗

…and that’s only the half of it. Most ‘Covid deaths’ everywhere are probably nothing of the sort.

… and most ‘Covid cases’ are definitely nothing of the sort – defined properly. They’re just random bits of RNA.

… and most ‘Covid hospitalizations’ are post-hoc nosocomial instances.

Apart from that, I’m sure that you can trust everything you read or hear about the plague.

185249 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mel, #1289 of 2450 🔗

Madness!

184390 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 15, #1290 of 2450 🔗

Hancock continued: “We are not the kind of country that abandons our vulnerable or just locks them up. If we let this virus continue unchecked, the loss of life would be simply too great to contemplate.”

what a twat

a) he locked up everybody including the vulnerable
b) the loss of life is low and would be even if ‘unchecked’ as it only kills those with a few months to live anyway

184409 ▶▶ Julian, replying to steve_w, 2, #1291 of 2450 🔗

(b) is and always has been true, and everyone knows it and always has, but it is now politically unsayable because of collective madness (see my post a minute ago)

184415 ▶▶ FlynnQuill, replying to steve_w, 20, #1292 of 2450 🔗

He really is a complete lying scum bag charlatan. He has already locked up the vulnerable and killed thousands in Nursing homes. What a load of shite the man speaks! To be a good liar you need a good memory, this charlatan obviously hasn’t. Hancock didn’t mind abandoning the cancer patients et al for the past seven months. How many people has this man’s policies killed? If there is any justice in the world, he will be in the dock for crimes against humanity with the rest of them. I won’t hold my breath though!

184419 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to FlynnQuill, 5, #1293 of 2450 🔗

i agree wholeheartedly. if they hadn’t sent the covids into care homes we would have got through this with barely any excess mortality and no lockdown.

I bet we end up the year with 60,000 excess deaths and they will be cancer, depression and stress etc. most covid deaths would have shuffled off this winter anyhow

184426 ▶▶▶▶ FlynnQuill, replying to steve_w, 4, #1294 of 2450 🔗

He wouldn’t care, as long as no one dies from covid. The other diseases that actually do kill lots of people can f*ck off. If you don’t have the covid card in the game of Top Trumps of diseases; kiss your arse goodbye.

185057 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to steve_w, #1295 of 2450 🔗

It wasn’t just that they sent in the covids. They also completely refused healthcare to the people in the homes.
May were originally in hospital because they needed regular monitoring and medication. They might have been covid-free but would have died of government mandated medical negligence.

184852 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to FlynnQuill, 1, #1296 of 2450 🔗

A good liar doesn’t need a good memory if the zombies he’s lying to have no memory at all. Go re-read Animal Farm.

185053 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to FlynnQuill, #1297 of 2450 🔗

Crap liar, rubbish memory.
Doesn’t matter if you have power and you’re a psychopath.

184499 ▶▶ calchas, replying to steve_w, 7, #1298 of 2450 🔗

“We are not the kind of country that abandons our vulnerable or just locks them up.”

No, we prefer to take out DNR orders en masse.

184575 ▶▶▶ Bailie, replying to calchas, 3, #1299 of 2450 🔗

A couple of weeks prior to lockddown my dad’s ( who has high functioning dementia) go phoned on a sat morning to ask if we would consider a dnr!

184586 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to steve_w, 1, #1300 of 2450 🔗

He likes to lock them up so they wither away slowly.

185049 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to steve_w, #1301 of 2450 🔗

Lamenting he loss of life is ironic coming from a cold-blooded murderer.

184392 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 6, #1302 of 2450 🔗

Listening to Parliament. Even the sensible MP’s seem to be going along to an extent with it all, being 100% sceptical doesn’t help. What does T&T actually do, is there any point to it? It all seems to lead to them making trillions from a vaccine for a virus that does nothing much to not many. Feel like I’m missing something.

184404 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Dan Clarke, 11, #1303 of 2450 🔗

Well I have thought about it a lot and I can’t think what you are missing. T&T seems pointless to me – it’s just wheeled out as an alternative to lockdowns or a vaccine that sounds impressive and gives people comfort “something is being done”.

The MPs dare not speak because they are afraid of losing their jobs and political career.

Somehow people had forgotten that people die, and covid has reminded them this is in fact the case, now they are freaked out and are desperate for someone to “fix” it by eradicating covid deaths so they can go back to pretending no-one dies again.

It is collective insanity. Such outbreaks don’t happen that often on such a wide scale, but modern humans are apparently not immune to it, and global media has made it possible on a wider scale than before.

184414 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Julian, 5, #1304 of 2450 🔗

It is utter madness. People like Steve Baker, John Redwood, do make an attempt at an alternative view but on the whole they all sound like clones in Westminster now.

184476 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 3, #1305 of 2450 🔗

You forget one other factor behind the pursuit of useless T & T, Julian : it potentially generates vast revenue.

184507 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, 2, #1306 of 2450 🔗

Yes, good point – the ability to award lucrative contracts to mates is no doubt very appealing to politicians

185047 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, #1307 of 2450 🔗

Pointless?!!
T&T is the foundation of the whole ongoing fiasco, and enabling the systematic destruction of the economy and society.
It’s also making an absolute mint for Serco.

184525 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #1308 of 2450 🔗

What does T&T actually do

Primarily, it gives the illusion of control over the situation and of effective action. Something must be done, T&T is something, therefore do T&T.

184565 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #1309 of 2450 🔗

I think T&T is also training the sheep in scanning to enter public settings. Not so they can be tracked for survelliance, oh no, it’s definitely for public safety.

185040 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Dan Clarke, #1310 of 2450 🔗

Kerrrrrching is all you need to know.

184397 Lisa from Toronto, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 8, #1311 of 2450 🔗

Don’t know if this got posted earlier, but Johnson & Johnson has halted its vaccine trial due to a volunteer’s “unexplained illness.” The company didn’t say whether the participant was in the placebo group or the vaccine group. Any guesses?

“Adverse events — illnesses, accidents, etc. — even those that are serious, are an expected part of any clinical study, especially large studies,” the company said in a statement . “We’re also learning more about this participant’s illness, and it’s important to have all the facts before we share additional information.”

If they’re an expected part of any large study among the healthiest of people, imagine the carnage they’ll likely create if/when they are administered to millions. I’ll take a pass.

184407 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 3, #1312 of 2450 🔗

A report on Reuters quoting a US medic suggested it must be a ‘neurological event’ if it is in the vaccine cohort. Interestingly, like the Oxford Vaccine, the delivery platform is a fairly novel adenovirus. In the J&J case human vs chimpanzee in the Oxford Vaccine.

184413 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 5, #1313 of 2450 🔗

This is why vaccines take 5 years to develop. Nothing new.

184449 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #1314 of 2450 🔗

Gates himself as saying the J and J vaccine was the only single dose version. All others in trials requires multiple shots. It also uses the measles vector, whatever that means.

185248 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #1315 of 2450 🔗

As far as I heard, they are not using true placebos in the trials, they are testing ‘covid’ vaccines against other vaccines… so it *could* be someone in the ‘placebo’ group. Though unlikely!!!

184405 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 6, #1316 of 2450 🔗

So Craig Whittaker, Calder Valley, thinks 6 people in ICU and 12 deaths is a Major Incident. Have these people all got investments in this

184432 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #1317 of 2450 🔗

See his wiki page, read the ‘personal life’ section, then reflect on why he might be supportive of the government line!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Whittaker#Personal_life

184553 ▶▶▶ wayno, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1318 of 2450 🔗

first line say it all

184406 Victoria, 5, #1319 of 2450 🔗

What the pandemic has taught us about science

The Covid-19 pandemic has stretched the bond between the public and the scientific profession as never before. Scientists have been revealed to be neither omniscient demigods whose opinions automatically outweigh all political disagreement, nor unscrupulous fraudsters pursuing a political agenda under a cloak of impartiality.

Somewhere between the two lies the truth: Science is a flawed and all too human affair, but it can generate timeless truths, and reliable practical guidance, in a way that other approaches cannot.

…..

…..

https://judithcurry.com/2020/10/10/what-the-pandemic-has-taught-us-about-science/

184412 tinxx, replying to tinxx, 2, #1320 of 2450 🔗

If someone in Whitehall had a plan to ensure that the current Government would not last long enough to properly reform the Civil Service, a good start point would be to say… “remember how Liverpool hated Boris over the Hillsborough article and never forgave him or the Sun? Well, lets get him to impose a severe second lockdown on Liverpool – and on all of the Northern areas that came across for Brexit. Let’s then ensure that every issue of logistics, support and supply chain also fails but also make it clear that failures of PPE, testing, tracing Apps, Cancer waiting lists, etc. are absolutely nothing to do with the civil service, PHE or the NHS but are ALL the fault of the cabinet. Then let’s force them into a split with their own back benchers over a circuit breaker (that will only break the cabinet – not a circuit). Finally, let’s set them up to fail on a plan for a vaccine – that won’t arrive. That should do it…”

184470 ▶▶ RickH, replying to tinxx, 5, #1321 of 2450 🔗

Oh dee! Poor ickle cabinet members and Baby Boris – all the victims of nasty civil service mens.

Give it a rest. The wider establishment does indeed include members of the Civil Service, and other interests – like the armed forces and Brenda’s tribe.

But Big Liar narcissist BloJob and his crew is in it up to their necks.

184477 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to tinxx, 1, #1322 of 2450 🔗

And if somebody in the Cabinrt had an ounce of sense they would have been able to work all this out. Wasn’t Cummings supposed to be good at 4D chess?

185244 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to tinxx, #1323 of 2450 🔗

Wouldn’t Cummings spot such plotting going on?

184418 theanalyst, replying to theanalyst, 11, #1324 of 2450 🔗

Student Testing Continues –

As predicted, I see they have now begun ramping up the student PCR testing in the South of England, gaining overall hundreds of new PCR ‘Cases’ in previously untouched places like Bath, Bristol, Bournemouth, Portsmouth, and Southampton. As far as the South was concerned, student testing had only really penetrated into Exeter by this time early last week. I reckon this new geographic switch will about make up for the falling number of student ‘cases’ in places like Manchester, where it looks like the students have either all been tested, or are growing very fed up of being used as political cannon fodder in this way. Once they have exhausted student testing overall, I think / hope this thing will start to run out of steam.

184433 ▶▶ bucky99, replying to theanalyst, 3, #1325 of 2450 🔗

It also partly down to students from those areas being tested elsewhere but having their results recorded at their home address.

184545 ▶▶ DRW, replying to theanalyst, 2, #1326 of 2450 🔗

Testing is the main thing keeping this going, they can just keep testing somewhere else.

185034 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to theanalyst, 1, #1327 of 2450 🔗

That’s very depressing – but inevitable.
The students should just dip all their swabs in tapwater.

184420 wendyk, 2, #1328 of 2450 🔗
184421 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 7, #1329 of 2450 🔗

Now these are the kind of conspiracies I love! Forget the rest, just the best (no, I’ve not turned to the dark side):

https://twitter.com/IAmTheActualET/status/1309311458484858881

It’s been nearly four months since the completion of the Danish #COVID19 mask RCT that compared mask use/no mask use in the general population. Results still have not been released. The author of the study said they would be released in August. It’s nearly October. Where is it?

184429 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Nick Rose, 12, #1330 of 2450 🔗

If Carlsberg made Mask RCT studies, it would probably be the best Mask RCT study in the world.

184437 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #1331 of 2450 🔗

It’s been speculated here that it’s because they couldn’t get a large enough sample size of CV-19 individuals so it was worthless

185240 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nick Rose, #1332 of 2450 🔗

There’s a guy called Johan Hellström on Twitter who posts info from the Scandinavian countries – he might know…

184425 leggy, replying to leggy, 16, #1333 of 2450 🔗

I suspect they’re trying to capitalise and I’m no fan of UKIP, but interesting statement from them today:

In the continued overreaction to the coronavirus pandemic, the government has decided to forgo a historical tradition in which the private, divisible and evolving power of science was used to make life better, whilst the course of society continued to function in the customary way. Instead, science is invoked by the government as though it were some pagan god, a singular and unchallengeable force whose only shortcomings arise because the plebeian masses fail to worship this deity with enough conviction.

This attitude by the government has not only undermined the noble cause of science, but it has conflated science with faith – something which is entirely un-scientific, whilst being deeply offensive to those who realise that genuine science, genuine philosophy and genuine religious faith each have important roles to play in society.

Once the dust finally settles, future political arguments will not be between left and right, nor will they be between populists and technocrats. The political arguments of the future will be those between champions of traditional liberty and champions of authority. Authority fails both the moral test and the practical test. Liberty has been sacrificed in the name of fighting a disease and this calculation has failed even by the standards of the authoritarians themselves.

Liberty alone cannot cure a disease, but it can allow society to use apolitical science to the best of its collective ability without stifling the freedoms whose sacrifice causes only harm.

https://www.ukip.org/the-results-are-in-authoritarianism-has-failed

184428 ▶▶ calchas, replying to leggy, 2, #1334 of 2450 🔗

Excellent!

184461 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to leggy, 13, #1335 of 2450 🔗

They say Vallance and Whitty should be suspended pending a full investigation, got my vote.

184505 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #1336 of 2450 🔗

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8834319/Cabinet-hawks-Rishi-Sunak-Boris-Johnson-sideline-Matt-Hancock-lockdown.html

This is updated from this morning, implying Whitty and Vallance rushed the SAGE minutes out just after Doris spoke to undermine him. It could be the case, or it could also be that it was authorised by Handsy instead. Pass the parcel in the blame game?

184976 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1337 of 2450 🔗

If he’s the PM, can’t he just sack them?

185024 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1338 of 2450 🔗

Authorised by a scary man?
comment image

This sounds ominous:
But in a round of interviews this morning, Mr Jenrick said ministers had to strike a ‘balance’. ‘ We probably will need to go further ,’ he said. ‘But we want to design these steps jointly between ourselves and local government.’

There’s also a YouGov poll (I know, I know) that claims the highest proportion of respondents don’t feel the measures go far enough.Those smug bastards must live in the Home Counties! 1/3 of the population is prohibited from mixing with their own families.

184511 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Dan Clarke, 5, #1339 of 2450 🔗

I say suspended from a lamppost, worry about the investigation later.

184582 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #1340 of 2450 🔗

Definitely should be suspended from a high place.

184845 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #1341 of 2450 🔗

Suspended from what/ where?
Suggestions on a postcard please.

184482 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to leggy, 1, #1342 of 2450 🔗

I’m a RWNJ now

184486 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #1343 of 2450 🔗

Right wing nut job?

184493 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to CGL, 1, #1344 of 2450 🔗

Aye

184535 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to leggy, #1345 of 2450 🔗

They’re just playing catch-up with Farage:
https://www.thebrexitparty.org/
but they’re welcome to the LS party nonetheless!

184431 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, #1346 of 2450 🔗

Something rather odd at the Giro d’Italia. According to the Race Director, the Giro has carried out fifteen hundred coronavirus tests. The tests have resulted in seven positive results. This strikes me as odd because even if no one was infected with the virus, given the false positive rate, one would have expected far more positives. What can explain such numbers?

184444 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Steve Hayes, #1347 of 2450 🔗

I’ll go for simple probability Steve.

If I continually take samples – with size 1500 – from the population, then they will not all show the exact positive rate. There will be a distribution around the positive rate, with clustering.

It’s like opinion polling. If you take a sample of 1500 and you know Labour support is, say 30%,, then it is still possible for the Labour proportion to vary quite a bit in any given sample.

It is quite possible also that the false positive rate varies across different groups, situations or indeed tests, just as Labour support does aross demographic groups.

184445 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #1348 of 2450 🔗

Depends on type of test. If it’s PCR would depend how many cycles.

184450 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to leggy, #1349 of 2450 🔗

…and of course there’s that.

184453 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to leggy, 3, #1350 of 2450 🔗

Bicycles??

184454 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to Steve Hayes, 4, #1351 of 2450 🔗

No, 7 out of 1500 is about 0.5%, that’s pretty much what you would expect for false positives. The issue with false positives isn’t that there are very many of them, it’s when the rate of false positives is higher than the incidence of the thing being tested for, the noise overwhelms the signal.

Cyclists are notoriously vulnerable to infection during a grand tour race like the Giro as their immune systems are screwed. If there were any covid at all in the peloton there would be a lot more than 7 positive tests.

184460 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Recusant, #1352 of 2450 🔗

… and that.

184472 ▶▶▶ DocRC, replying to Recusant, 1, #1353 of 2450 🔗

The false positive rate has been estimated by NHS England as between 0.8 and 4% with a median of 2.3%

184469 ▶▶ DocRC, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #1354 of 2450 🔗

Certainly lower than you’d expect but without knowing the Ct they are using (the number of cycles you perform to decide if the PCR test is positive or negative) it’s difficult to say. If you use a Ct of 25 then you probably will only detect active cases i.e. people who are shedding live viruses. If like in the UK for pillar 2 tests you are going up to 40 or 42 cycles the you will get a lot of false positives because you will be amplifying viral fragments and other DNA contaminants!

185007 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Steve Hayes, #1355 of 2450 🔗

Maybe they’re only doing half the number of cycles that Serco are doing here.
Pun not intended!

184434 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #1356 of 2450 🔗

The lack of choice between liblabCon has never been as evident as it is now in Parliament. We don’t have a government, we have a Parliament. A pretty useless one with no credible opposition.

184456 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #1357 of 2450 🔗

Uh???

I think you’ve got this arse about tit.

We have a government – but no parliament !!!

184501 ▶▶▶ Jo, replying to RickH, 7, #1358 of 2450 🔗

I remember Tony Benn saying (of Tony Blair) that the electorate were not represented, but “managed”. We are being micro-managed to the nth degree under these bastards.

184577 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #1359 of 2450 🔗

Nevermind those, we are under bloody occupation.

184435 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 4, #1360 of 2450 🔗

Oh shit! “Cases” and deaths massively up today. The mad scientists will be in ecstasy.

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

184438 ▶▶ Andy C, replying to Tenchy, 5, #1361 of 2450 🔗

Except that it’s the usual Tuesday catch-up.

184448 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Andy C, 5, #1362 of 2450 🔗

We know that. Most of the mad scientists probably know it as well. The politicians and the MSM might know it, but the sheeple don’t know it.

184540 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1363 of 2450 🔗

Bloody hell, Tuesdays are dangerous!

185234 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tenchy, #1364 of 2450 🔗

They will have been ‘saving up’ earlier reported stats so as to be able to release them now and thereby justify new restrictions and lockdowns…

184436 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 14, #1365 of 2450 🔗

Michael Levitt feeling the strain :o((

https://twitter.com/MLevitt_NP2013/status/1316001095827689473

1) Ignore cases, use number of hospitalizations, deaths.

2) Beware of reported death: many ‘with’ not ‘due to’ COVID19.

3) All-cause deaths bias-free but ambiguous & badly delayed.

4) MSM is rarely right. WHO often right but timing off.

5) COVID19 is a contrast agent revealing what is wrong with society but was invisible.

6) Make errors: exploring the unknown cannot be correct. Learn from errors.

7) Use common sense. Think

(8) Stop being scared. World reported COVID19 at 1,050,000 is 7 days of natural death.

184447 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Nick Rose, 8, #1366 of 2450 🔗

Yes. Sanity.

But, as he’s said, there is an all-out war on this sort of sane rationality.

184441 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 11, #1367 of 2450 🔗

As if by magic, 143 deaths announced. Not yet seen any breakdown, but this is reported rather than date of death. Headline timed perfectly for the vote later today!

184452 ▶▶ Tammy2, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #1368 of 2450 🔗

Classic Tuesday

184712 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1370 of 2450 🔗

Which of course means nothing as it’s just a “positive test”

184458 ▶▶ Kev, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #1371 of 2450 🔗

17,234 cases (BBC words) reported today, somewhat below the 50,000 predicted today by the graph of doom

184508 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Kev, 9, #1372 of 2450 🔗

Proof that masks have saved us. God Bless you Whitty, Vallance & Hancock.

PS. Does anyone know how to turn off the sarcasm option on your keyboard?

184576 ▶▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Achilles, 2, #1373 of 2450 🔗

It’s impossible nowadays. My sarcasm meter is set to 11.

184579 ▶▶▶ wayno, replying to Kev, 1, #1374 of 2450 🔗

not by case date though eh, cant show the real data just by result day.

184468 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 20, #1375 of 2450 🔗

Sweden – 11 deaths so far this month.

No masks, no lockdowns , no mandatory anti-social distancing.

184538 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to calchas, 3, #1376 of 2450 🔗

Shame on the evil Swedes. 11 deaths too many! Lockdown. Lockdown. Lockdown! etc.

184516 ▶▶ wayno, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #1377 of 2450 🔗

id love to know where they magic the number from, just been on the NHS daily file (yesterday) for England and 15 yesterday, working back 46, 45, 34, 51, 56. I understand this is just NHS and not care homes or registered but they have never even remotely aligned.

184541 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to wayno, 2, #1378 of 2450 🔗

In The Mail article just updated, it says for NHS England, there were 87 deaths back to 6 October (61 in North). No info on the age/co-morbidities. Yesterday’s announced deaths were all with co-morbidities with the exception of 2, one of whom was 82, and the other 94!

184549 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #1379 of 2450 🔗

Don’t forget though, as of 8 October covid/flu death numbers have been combined….!

184987 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1380 of 2450 🔗

Deaths can’t have gone from 28 to 143 overnight. Unbelievable!
They’re claiming 124 for England:

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/deaths

184442 John P, replying to John P, 2, #1381 of 2450 🔗

For those worried about the possibility of mandated vaccines, there is some hope.

I have found this stated in the following book:

Principles of Molecular Virology, by Alan J Cann 4th Ed (2005)

page 196 :

To design effective vaccines, it is important to understand both the immune response to virus infection and the stages of virus replication. To be effective, vaccines must stimulate as many of the body’s defence mechanisms as possible. … To be effective it is not necessary to get 100% uptake of vaccine. “Herd immunity” results from the break in transmission of a virus that occurs when a sufficiently high proportion of a population have been vaccinated.

So there is never going to be any need for the government to force everyone to have a vaccine – even if they persist with their current policy.

It also means that those who would decline a vaccine could do so without being accused of being “granny killers” or being accused of being dangerous to others.

It also would not be necessary to insist on “immunity passports” for all, since the eradication of a virus is not predicated on 100% uptake of a vaccine. Not everyone would need to be immune to it.

Naturally, this might be resisted by Big Pharma whose profits would presumably be dependent on levels of uptake.

184462 ▶▶ Julian, replying to John P, 1, #1382 of 2450 🔗

I think the issue will come if the uptake is very low – say 50%.

184556 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Julian, #1383 of 2450 🔗

Or hopefully much much lower than that. Just say no.

184471 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to John P, 5, #1384 of 2450 🔗

Good to know but not worth a thing if THEY continue pushing the HealthPassport – facts won’t then matter.

184478 ▶▶▶ Jo, replying to Victoria, 6, #1385 of 2450 🔗

That’s the trouble. Facts and truth are irrelevant. You see how angry Mike Yeadon is getting about this and is anyone in Sage of Govt listening? No. They have their own agenda and the truth will not disrupt it one bit.

184479 ▶▶▶▶ Jo, replying to Jo, #1386 of 2450 🔗

sorry typo – should have read Govt of Sage!

184560 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Victoria, #1387 of 2450 🔗

The health passport is only an interim measure. The real plan is to shrink the population drastically. Health passports will be the least of our worries.

184480 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to John P, 13, #1388 of 2450 🔗

Had a conversation with an intelligent colleague of mine the other day and tried “testing the water” on where he sat on the Covid-spectrum by mentioning I thought the original herd immunity strategy wasn’t a bad idea, since that’s the normal way we’ve handled infectious disease in the past. He reacted as though I was a complete lunatic and that herd immunity was total nonsense. I did point out that vaccines were based on the concept of herd immunity, but he was having none of it.

Anyhow, you are absolutely correct, but I don’t expect that to change Government policy or the general population’s minds. They will totally call us granny killers for not taking the vaccine, because science is irrelevant to them now.

184495 ▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to zacaway, 3, #1389 of 2450 🔗

Your colleague sounds clever, just not very wise

184519 ▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to captainbeefheart, 5, #1390 of 2450 🔗

Too clever! Ironically he was/is an ardent Remainer and couldn’t shut up about what a liar Boris was last year. Seems to believe everything he says now.

184572 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to zacaway, 1, #1391 of 2450 🔗

It’s strange how a lot of Remainers are pro Lockdown.

184924 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Bella Donna, 1, #1392 of 2450 🔗

Not this one.

184968 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #1393 of 2450 🔗

And equally strange(?) how many of us Remainers are anti-lockdown. I was anti-Boris before, so I guess I’m consistent.

184957 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to zacaway, #1394 of 2450 🔗

That is ironic!

184546 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to zacaway, 2, #1395 of 2450 🔗

“an intelligent colleague of mine”. I really don’t think it’s down to intelligence anymore. People will believe anything they want to believe. Alternative (AKA FACTUAL) opinions are irrelevant

184958 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to T. Prince, #1396 of 2450 🔗

Depends where they get their info.

184446 Fingerache Philip., 11, #1397 of 2450 🔗

BBC Midlands today: 13:45.
5 out of the 7 West Midlands local authorities under some sort of lockdown.
Correspondent said: “If you live in one local authority area and you want to cross the street to visit a house in another area, you must abide by the lockdown rules of your area” YEH,WELL GOOD LUCK WITH THAT ONE THEN”

184492 zacaway, replying to zacaway, 16, #1398 of 2450 🔗

Three million missed out on cancer checks after coronavirus put screening on hold

This has resulted in about 350,000 people not being referred to hospital for urgent checks, Cancer Research UK said.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/cancer-checks-three-million-miss-out-coronavirus-a4568771.html

I cannot imagine how angry I would be if someone I cared about died from treatable cancer due to this Government’s policy of not treating cancer any more.

184498 ▶▶ chaos, replying to zacaway, 8, #1399 of 2450 🔗

Well statistically you will likely know someone at some point. Sorry to say. 1 in 2 men get cancer and 1 in 3 women. Prior to the WEF lockdown 40% of cancers were caught in the early stages and the remainder were caught in stage 3 (touch and go) and 4 (terminal). Most common cancer in women is breast. In men prostate. Most womern under the age of 50 have never had a breast check. That age will now rise. Most men have never had a prostate check because a suitable test has yet to be decided. There was once talk of using sniffer dogs to sniff out cancers… that was the old normal. Before Klaus and windfarms and genetcally altered microbiomes and Logan’s Run euthanasia.

184531 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to chaos, 3, #1400 of 2450 🔗

Yes, mostly likely. Even if the madness ends tomorrow, I think it’ll take years to get through the backlog.

184550 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to zacaway, 8, #1401 of 2450 🔗

For many, there will be no backlog to worry about.

They will be dead.

184548 ▶▶ RickH, replying to zacaway, 5, #1402 of 2450 🔗

NHS figures show about 31,000 fewer patients across the UK started treatment for cancer between April and July compared with the same time last year”

This is the frightening figure, given that screening per se will throw up its own ‘false positives’

184882 ▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to RickH, 1, #1403 of 2450 🔗

The BBC should be all over this.

Oh, wait . . .

184500 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 11, #1404 of 2450 🔗

Interesting article on the Health Service Journal – ‘For Healthcare Leaders’. AlanG has a free subscription. Most articles are behind a very high paywall (£249 for a basic subscription) but the occasional one gets through . Here are the edited highlights and look at that last sentence (my emphasis):

‘Exclusive NHS England at loggerheads with Test and Trace over Staff testing

The NHS in the North West will try to introduce routine asymptomatic staff testing this week. It will also be introduced in the North East and Yorkshire, but the timing for that region is unclear.

The region expects to develop an “ongoing programme of asymptomatic testing, as saliva-based testing becomes available, but this week will require mutual aid from other parts of the country”, according to an email on Monday seen by HSJ.

Staff who have face-to-face contact with patients and those in areas of highest risk will be prioritised, according to NHS England. It did not say how this will be defined. It is thought to apply to staff in NHS trusts, but not primary care.

According to the email, in the North West region alone it will equate to around 97,000 of a total 130,000 staff being eligible. NHS England anticipates 85 per cent coverage of patient facing staff, as some will refuse to consent or be unavailable, according to the email.’

It seems patients get their operations cancelled if they refuse a test but it is admitted that up to 15% of ‘patient-facing’ NHS staff will refuse/evade one.

By the way, every shopkeeper we’ve spoken to in the last few days has told us that they have no intention of downloading the T&T app. They think it’s a foregone conclusion that if you do, you’re bound to get the notification to self-isolate and none of them can afford to. Some have even argued with friends/partners working from home/furloughed who are merrily downloading it because it wouldn’t affect them to be quarantined. The other thing they’re telling us is that, for the same reason, they daren’t go out to cafes, pubs and restaurants. Another nail in the coffin of what’s left of the hospitality industry. MW

184506 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #1405 of 2450 🔗

Good bit of info! Thanks

184510 ▶▶ assoc, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #1406 of 2450 🔗

One wonders whether anyone in authority or any kind of responsible position has downloaded the NHS app. I suspect it is just for us roles

184628 ▶▶▶ assoc, replying to assoc, #1407 of 2450 🔗

I meant proles

184504 assoc, replying to assoc, 3, #1408 of 2450 🔗

Interesting graph in today’s I paper. The only conclusion I can reach is that only the 16-29 is foolish or unlucky enough to be tested. With age comes wisdom!

184515 ▶▶ DRW, replying to assoc, 6, #1409 of 2450 🔗

Some universities are imposing mass testing as a condition of attendance. Doing their bit to keep the numbers high enough.

184521 ▶▶ chaos, replying to assoc, 4, #1410 of 2450 🔗

Some schools are routinely testing (and then shutting down whole year groups). Some workplaces are strongly insisting or suggesting staff take tests. One domino brings down others. Only takes 100 or so positive “cases” to fuck a town and put it in the never-ending loop of red, yellow and not really go green. It’s brilliantly evil. Unlike Klaus, who is just evil.

184520 Adam, 7, #1411 of 2450 🔗

Enough is enough this corrupt lying Government must not be allowed to remain in office I absolutely despise Johnson and Hancock thank God I voted SDP last December and not conservative or labour

184522 Ceriain, replying to Ceriain, 1, #1412 of 2450 🔗
184927 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ceriain, #1413 of 2450 🔗

That’s brilliant!!

184523 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #1414 of 2450 🔗

Two anecdotes from Gulag Cymru today (Sector North).

1) Pub owner (stepdaughter’s friend’s relative) contacted by authorities advising them against stocking items that have a shelf life of less than two weeks. I think we can guess what’s coming to Wrexham then.

2) A young person from Wrexham county broke travel regulations to go shopping in Manchester a few days ago. Has been fined £1,000 (by Wrexham council I presume). The only way they can have been traced is through Credit Card transactions. True? Or scaremongering?

184530 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Mr Dee, 4, #1415 of 2450 🔗

Another reason to use cash or it was a snitching grass collaborator.

184537 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #1416 of 2450 🔗

Scaremongering or collaborator ref no.2

184542 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #1417 of 2450 🔗

Smart Phone.

184551 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to TyLean, 4, #1418 of 2450 🔗

Good point, which is why it’s foolish to take your phone with you everywhere! People are having to be more savvy, putting your life on an iPhone is daft. Wise up people!

184591 ▶▶▶▶ garry a, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #1419 of 2450 🔗

Just turn off location services. Or get a burner phone like a drug dealer!

184728 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to garry a, 2, #1420 of 2450 🔗

My wife and stepkids call my dear little Nokia a ‘drug dealer’ phone.

184720 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to TyLean, #1421 of 2450 🔗

Oooh, didn’t think of that – technophobe that I am. Good point.

184547 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #1422 of 2450 🔗

B’stards!

184588 ▶▶ garry a, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #1423 of 2450 🔗

I know of someone who was fined because their smartphone showed them away from home (they were supposed to be self isolating)

184916 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to garry a, #1424 of 2450 🔗

Surely they’ve signed up to T&T for that to happen?
Surely??

185230 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mr Dee, #1425 of 2450 🔗

Or by CCTV if he/she travelled by public transport?? Someone might be monitoring cameras around bus and train stations?

184524 zacaway, replying to zacaway, 8, #1426 of 2450 🔗

Encouraging analysis of polls in Spectator today:

Is Britain really a nation of lockdown-lovers?

Rather than a picture of happy obedience, focus groups reveal a mood of fatigue, frustration, and confusion. Participants, from across parts of England, say they are growing tired of restrictions. They talk about being unsure whether they can take ‘another six months of this’. Whereas in March and April it would have been close to heresy, they now talk much more openly about how they may take liberties with the rules, whether seeing friends in the pub in places that are already locked down, or sneaking that seventh person into their house for lunch.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-britain-really-a-nation-of-lockdown-lovers-

184552 ▶▶ chaos, replying to zacaway, 6, #1427 of 2450 🔗
184528 chaos, replying to chaos, 2, #1428 of 2450 🔗

Thumb me up if you didn’t know a sceptical Tanzania sent a fruit, some engine oil, and a goat sample to be tested for covid and they came back positive.

184718 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to chaos, 4, #1429 of 2450 🔗

That has been my favourite bit of Covid Trivia, even after all these months.

The goat should be awarded a medal.

184532 Mr Dee, 3, #1430 of 2450 🔗

And we have a new name for de Piffle. A very apt one, and from someone who’s showed more political nous than the entirety of the cabinet and Sage put together.

Yoghurt Head.

(I’ll let you look it up for yourselves).

184533 TyLean, replying to TyLean, 15, #1431 of 2450 🔗

Give it two months, and someone will be moaning that the new term for the Bedwetters is offensive and should be changed again. The term never really stuck with me, so I will continue to refer to them as Morons, Dumb Mother Fuckers, Pieces of Shit, and – for those I know personally – People of Better I Used to Think.

Never place a single toe on the path of political correctness. It leads to one destination, and I assure you, it ain’t fucking Disney Land.

184539 ▶▶ RickH, replying to TyLean, 5, #1432 of 2450 🔗

It’s nothing to do with political correctness. It’s to do with useless, pointless and self-indulgent ranting that doesn’t get anywhere near the root of the problem, let alone converting anybody.

184559 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to RickH, 5, #1433 of 2450 🔗

I have been posting factual articles, links and clips on fb for weeks with zero results. They will not be converted – they have invested too much now to admit they are wrong. They are utterly in the thrall of Witless and Imbalanced.

184894 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to CGL, #1434 of 2450 🔗

… which is my point. Simply shouting is just an indulgence.

184603 ▶▶▶ jb12, replying to RickH, 2, #1435 of 2450 🔗

Conversion requires honesty and reflection. Whatever you want to call the automatons that shuffle around this country, they will never have the necessary frame of mind to convert – they don’t even have the gumption to switch off the tv and have a quick look at the government’s own data, which is mostly accessible to everyone with an internet connection.

184819 ▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to RickH, #1436 of 2450 🔗

You’re totally right . Toby has done us a great service setting up the web site but it’s beyond me why any serious person in opposition to the lockdown ,would piss around asking people what name to call someone.It makes us look like children and is the politics of the playground . The BBC ,The Government and papers like the Guardian must be rubbing their hands in glee when they see this .

184580 ▶▶ Jakehadlee, replying to TyLean, 4, #1437 of 2450 🔗

You are totally missing the point. It’s not about offence or free speech it’s about diplomacy to win the fight.

You have the right, under free speech, to call your Mum a twat if you want, but don’t expect to get a hug next time you see her.

It’s about being calm and clever, not angry and dumb. No offence.

184824 ▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Jakehadlee, #1438 of 2450 🔗

Great post .

184536 chaos, replying to chaos, 5, #1439 of 2450 🔗

China could manipulate you.gov and similar polls. So could our own government or Davos. Create the polls, answer the polls and follow the polls. All under one roof.

185225 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to chaos, 1, #1440 of 2450 🔗

We keep blaming the 77th brigade, but yes, China used bots to persuade governments to lock down, so they could now just as likely be infiltrating and manipulating polls..

184555 Motke, replying to Motke, 2, #1441 of 2450 🔗

I’ve generally been a sceptic of lockdown measures but it is very hard when there seems so many conflicting bits of information and differing points of view. Suneptra Gupta seems to talk a lot of sense and she’s an Oxford Professor so I presume she must be highly qualified. And yet many other seemingly highly qualified experts take a different view to her and those behind the Great Barrington Declaration.

Hancock is quoted in the Guardian online taking a swipe at sceptics: “The Great Barrington declaration is underpinned by two central plains, and both are emphatically false. First, it says that if enough people get Covid, we will reach herd immunity. This is not true,” he said.
“Many infectious diseases never reached herd immunity like measles and malaria and flu … We should have no confidence that we would ever reach herd immunity to Covid, even if everyone caught it.
“The second central claim is that we can segregate the old and the vulnerable on our way to herd immunity … we cannot somehow fence off the elderly and the vulnerable from risk, while everyone else returns to normal,” he said.
“It’s neither conscionable nor practicable, not when so many people live in intergenerational homes where older people need carers … and when young people can suffer the facilitating impact of long Covid. Whenever we’ve seen cases among young people rise sharply, we then see cases among the over-60s rise inevitably thereafter, and we are not the kind of country that abandons our vulnerable, or just locks them up.”

Hancock seems like a twat, but is he correct? Is herd immunity and targeted protection unfeasible? Which scientific or medical expert’s view is the most valid? For humble plebs like me, it’s hard to work out who’s right and who isn’t, although I prefer Gupta and Hennegan’s take on things.

184562 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Motke, 16, #1442 of 2450 🔗

You are correct .. Hancock is a twat

184566 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Motke, 16, #1443 of 2450 🔗

I thought herd immunity is what vaccinating would be trying to achieve. Vaccination doesn’t cure the disease, it just primes your immune system so you fight it off. When a certain percentage of the population have been vaccinated it protects everyone else too, that’s herd immunity.
So if you can’t reach herd immunity when normally getting the disease how will it work with the vaccine?

184595 ▶▶▶ jb12, replying to thinkaboutit, 2, #1444 of 2450 🔗

Annual vaccinations.

184617 ▶▶▶▶ Crazy Times, replying to jb12, 3, #1445 of 2450 🔗

I actually think they are going to be pushing for bi-annual. The reports in Russian media said immunity might only last 6 months and there have been similar stories drip fed elsewhere to support this.

https://www.euronews.com/2020/05/25/covid-19-immunity-to-coronaviruses-may-only-last-just-six-months-says-new-study

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/12/immunity-to-covid-19-could-be-lost-in-months-uk-study-suggests

184622 ▶▶▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Crazy Times, 4, #1446 of 2450 🔗

Even better, twice the £.

184858 ▶▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Crazy Times, #1447 of 2450 🔗

Bill Gates pays them to say thing like that.

184856 ▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to jb12, #1448 of 2450 🔗

Check the downsides that big pharma keeps hidden.

184686 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to thinkaboutit, 1, #1449 of 2450 🔗

Correct. And the vaccines seem to be very ineffective. Not designed to prevent the disease, but to turn mild cases into even milder ones, for some.

184567 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Motke, 11, #1450 of 2450 🔗

Matt Hancock the epidemiologist? or the PPE twat?

184861 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to steve_w, 1, #1451 of 2450 🔗

Correction . Matt Hancock the epidemiologist twat and PPE twat?

184569 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Motke, 12, #1452 of 2450 🔗

I’ve had ‘long covid’ since March. I didn’t have any symptoms then and I don’t now

184666 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to steve_w, 2, #1453 of 2450 🔗

The new PPI scam? Do you have Long Covid and it wasn’t your fault? No win no fee. You could be owed thousands.

184887 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to steve_w, 1, #1454 of 2450 🔗

Ditto. Plenty of symptoms, tho’ : from feverish fantasies about a bus carrying the cabinet going over a cliff to periods of shouty rage if I happen to hear any BBC News.

184571 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Motke, 7, #1455 of 2450 🔗

Many highly qualified experts are bought and owned. Pretty much everyone on SAGE has big money sponsors.

184584 ▶▶▶ Motke, replying to DRW, 4, #1456 of 2450 🔗

Do you mean sponsored by pharmaceutical companies? So they have a vested interest in keeping people locked up until a vaccine is found? Is that the gist of it?

184599 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Motke, 1, #1457 of 2450 🔗

Not just pharmaceuticals.

184612 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Motke, 6, #1458 of 2450 🔗

And also in undermining cheap and simple prophylactic treatments such as vitamin D and hydroxychloroquine.

My question for those people who maintain that herd immunity cannot be achieved and the whole population is equally vulnerable to covid is why did the rates of infection drop so much more quickly in London, beginning five days, at least, before the lockdown on the 23rd of March? If over 80% of London’s population was still vulnerable why didn’t they continue to be infected at the same rate as all of the rest of the country?

184639 ▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Will, 5, #1459 of 2450 🔗

3 options here. Herd immunity, seasonal forces, this is just manufctured

184573 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Motke, 10, #1460 of 2450 🔗

But he’s locking us all up, including the over 60s. Why is that better?

184581 ▶▶▶ Motke, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1461 of 2450 🔗

I agree, it isn’t better.

184587 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Motke, 5, #1462 of 2450 🔗

Ask the WHO, which now says Lockdowns don’t work, as if we didn’t know already and that includes yourself.

184601 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Motke, 10, #1463 of 2450 🔗

No, he’s wrong.
As for older people isolating – that should be their OWN choice, not imposed by government.

184636 ▶▶▶ Motke, replying to Jonathan Castro, 6, #1464 of 2450 🔗

I agree, in the same way many people are allowed the choice to smoke, knowing very well how harmful it is. According to the NHS website smoking kills around 78,000 people a year in UK, which is far more than Covid-19.

184693 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Jonathan Castro, 5, #1465 of 2450 🔗

My wife and myself are in our 70’s and we will make our own choice.

184810 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1466 of 2450 🔗

Well said indeed.

184884 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to annie, #1467 of 2450 🔗

Thanks.

184624 ▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to Motke, 5, #1468 of 2450 🔗

“we are not the kind of country that abandons our vulnerable, or just locks them up”

Does he ever listen to the ess-aitch-one-tee that comes out of his own mouth?
Huge numbers of elderly have been locked up in their care homes since March, unable to see their families except through a f’ing window. (If at all.)

In March it was policy to segregate the elderly and the vulnerable, but then they called it “shielding”. People by and large worked things out for themselves, looking after family members as necessary, making compromises to protect one another. (I know of families who are still doing it to protect their most vulnerable.) It’s called “family”; it’s called “humanity”.
And now Hancock is denigrating that as “ neither conscionable nor practicable”.
Further proof, if proof were needed, that he would try to make us feel guilty, to deny us all agency, to deny OUR humanity in order to fit his autistic rules-based world.

184637 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Motke, 7, #1469 of 2450 🔗

We imprisoned the elderly and vulnerable in March. Many are still imprisoned, either voluntarily through fear, or otherwise via carehome stasi. So I don’t see how that argument holds any water.

Most people who get flu, feel crap for a few days and recover. Their immune systems are primed to cope and only those whose immune systems are under par will be affected in the first place. I’d say that proves a form of herd immunity exists for flu viruses. Those with inadequate immune systems, like many elderly, will unfortunately succumb.

I’ve read that people who’ve had a measles jab are more susceptible to getting measles, mild form or not.

We live alongside these diseases and never even notice them unless we or someone in our personal sphere is affected.

As for malaria, it’s parasitic, not viral so completely irrelevant.

I find his arguments far weaker than those of the GBD! (but I am biased)

184641 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Motke, 6, #1470 of 2450 🔗

You are less of a pleb than Hancock and the PM.

Which expert’s view is backed by evidence?

Look at Sweden.

In any case, there’s no evidence lockdowns have saved any lives and lots of evidence they have done huge damage. The burden of proof is on those who advocate unpredecented measures for a virus that has not shown itself to be of unprecedented danger.

184670 ▶▶▶ Motke, replying to Julian, 3, #1471 of 2450 🔗

Yes, I still don’t understand why more people don’t appreciate that in the majority of cases this virus is only really a problem for the very elderly and/or people with serious pre-existing problems. It seems most people who get it don’t even feel a thing!

184742 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Motke, #1472 of 2450 🔗

I suspect because most peope don’t even know anyone who’s had it, so can only go by the terrorporn on the beeb.

184696 ▶▶▶ Motke, replying to Julian, 3, #1473 of 2450 🔗

A good friend of mine is consultant doctor in large London hospital. He left a group chat in anger when I suggested back in April that might it be better to follow the Swedish model because lockdown causes so much harm. It upset me for days and ever since I’ve wondered whether I’m wrong for being so sceptical, particularly as he is far more intelligent than me (or so it seems).

184740 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Motke, 5, #1474 of 2450 🔗

Clearly not AS intelligent as you. Don’t put yourself down!

184813 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1475 of 2450 🔗

An intelligent fool. There are plenty of them about.

184827 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Motke, 3, #1476 of 2450 🔗

It’s worth bearing in mind that especially when emotional responses are involved, closeness to an issue can lead to incorrect analysis even by highly educated and intelligent people.

On this issue, medical people, especially those involved in day to day treatment of those suffering from this disease, tend to overrate the relative harm caused directly by the disease (because they are confronted with it in its harshest forms every day) and underrate relatively the costs of lockdowns, because the latter are further away from them.

It’s a bit like the profoundly stupid but very human response you often get when telling someone that the numbers prove that covid is not a big threat: “you wouldn’t say that if you’d had one of your friends/relatives die horribly of it like my aunt/cousin/milkman/window cleaner’s cat”.

184841 ▶▶▶▶▶ Motke, replying to Mark, #1477 of 2450 🔗

That’s very true

184893 ▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Motke, 1, #1478 of 2450 🔗

I don’t see why you should automatically think that he would be more intelligent than you are. I suspect that many doctors are schooled to remember diagnoses/treatments instead of actually thinking things through. Rockefeller funding of university medical departments ensures that diagnoses ensure that pharmaceuticals are used instead of what are glibly dismissed as alternative medicines.

184654 ▶▶ Henry, replying to Motke, 2, #1479 of 2450 🔗

Does Hancock not address the GBD inclusion of vaccination (when safe and effective)?

184656 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Motke, 5, #1480 of 2450 🔗

Firstly welcome. Matt Hancock’s rejection of the GBD has two points, the first incoherent, the second morally questionable. Most infectious diseases do have a level of herd immunity, though this varies. Malaria is a mosquito borne illness quite different from say flu. Vaccinations work on the basis of immunity, if this is rejected then lockdowns are an utter waste of time as the virus can never be eliminated, though it will doubtless mutate. The idea that the vulnerable cannot be locked away unless everyone else is comes across as dog in the manger totalitarianism at best, nonsense at worst, as enforced isolation is likely to be particularly cruel in their situation. This has certainly been the case.

184662 ▶▶ petgor, replying to Motke, 13, #1481 of 2450 🔗

The elderly if they are so minded and afraid, can self isolate for days, weeks months of even years if it makes them feel safe. They can wear masks and do the social distance dance to their hearts content. As for me, at 76, I want a normal life. I am going to die of something and if its Covid, then so be it.

184735 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to petgor, 1, #1482 of 2450 🔗

Hear hear!

184815 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1483 of 2450 🔗

Hear!

184873 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to petgor, 3, #1484 of 2450 🔗

Exactly. This is parallel to a moderate ‘flu season. So what’s the big deal?

Existing and just staying fearfully alive isn’t living.

Don’t use me as an excuse.

184669 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Motke, 2, #1485 of 2450 🔗

All you need to know is Hancock is a twat and therefore ignore him.

184899 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Bella Donna, #1486 of 2450 🔗

I wish we could. I wish we could ( fill in what you wish ).

184671 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Motke, 8, #1487 of 2450 🔗

Many infectious diseases never reached herd immunity like measles and malaria and flu

This statement is simply incorrect in two out of its three points. Malaria is not an infectious viral disease — it is caused by a parasite spread by mosquito bites. Flu is not a single disease: it mutates so quickly that herd immunity to one form may be reached but not provide protection against a new mutation.

Finally, let’s talk about measles. It is highly infectious (R0 at 12-18 is about 5 times that of Covid) and the herd immunity threshold is hard to reach even using vaccines: so not exactly a great example to quote in this context. However, in the year I caught measles as a child, before vaccination, the number of cases in the UK was 185,000 and the number of deaths was 39. So herd immunity was doing rather well.

So, to answer the question. Herd immunity is reached when sufficiently many people are immune for whatever reason — pre-existing immunity acquired by exposure to similar disease, acquired immunity as a result of catching and surviving the disease, or vaccination. In the absence of a vaccine, we would have to rely on pre-existing or acquired immunity. However, with an R0 around 3, that means we need about 66% immunity.

If there is no pre-existing immunity (the conservative assumption that underpinned early work) then that means we have to expose 66% of the population to the disease. Suppose it were possible to confine that to the under 55s, about the right number, then on current showing we would expect 8,000 deaths among those 40 million cases.

Of course we have already has some of those cases. if we go by the antibody tests as indicating acquired immunity, we’re not nearly there.

The biggest known unknown is the extent of pre-existing immunity. Prof Gupta believes it is much higher than had initially been assumed. If experience in other countries is anything to go by, then there is some reason to believe that there might be as much as 50% pre-existing immunity. In which case, we’re nearly there, and maybe the number of deaths required to get there would only be 1,000.

But we have to be brutal about this. It is possible to shield the vulnerable, and elderly, but it is not possible to reduce the risk to zero even in that part of the population least at risk. The Great Barrington policy will lead to deaths, hundreds if not thousands. The question, is really — what is the alternative: and what is the cost of that alternative?

184816 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #1488 of 2450 🔗

A good response, thanks (as is matt’s). Just a couple of quibbles.

However, with an R0 around 3, that means we need about 66% immunity.
If there is no pre-existing immunity (the conservative assumption that underpinned early work) then that means we have to expose 66% of the population to the disease .”

This would be the case if we were achieving herd immunity by vaccinating people effectively at random, I believe, but I think current research suggests it isn’t the case when dealing with naturally spreading infection, because individuals likely vary considerably in susceptibility to the disease and in exposure to it. Transmissions and therefore immunity are quick to rise among more active people, thereby achieving a protective level at a much lower overall prevalence.

Of course we have already has some of those cases. if we go by the antibody tests as indicating acquired immunity, we’re not nearly there.

Antibody response is not necessarily the only indicator of prevalence.

But we have to be brutal about this. It is possible to shield the vulnerable, and elderly, but it is not possible to reduce the risk to zero even in that part of the population least at risk. The Great Barrington policy will lead to deaths, hundreds if not thousands. The question, is really — what is the alternative: and what is the cost of that alternative ?”

This is true, but misleadingly worded I think. We certainly do not have to be any more “brutal” about advocating the GBD policy than we would have to be to advocate lockdown responses, which we know will cause many deaths both directly and indirectly. As you say, it is fundamentally a matter of weighing the costs of each policy against the other, and it’s my belief that that measure is not even close – the costs of lockdown (in lives, in economic costs, in social and moral harms) far exceed any possible costs that could have been inflicted by this disease, even just based on what we knew of it and could reasonably infer by early March.

184825 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Mark, 1, #1489 of 2450 🔗

Indeed, and that’s why I emphasised the word”average”. Prof. Gomes has shown the effect of different levels of transmission and different levels of susceptibility.

The brutality is not in the policy, but in the decision-making. Some people aren’t comfortable with discussing which of two policies will cause more deaths. But it’s a discussion that needs to be held.

184931 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Richard Pinch, #1490 of 2450 🔗

I wonder what the infection fatality rates are now that we have several treatments available. (If HCQ treatments for early stage infection had not been denied in March, many fewer people would have fallen so seriously ill.) Also, if the government had been active in promoting the appropriate vitamins and supplements, people’s immune systems could well have been more effective.

184680 ▶▶ matt, replying to Motke, 6, #1491 of 2450 🔗

Just on the herd immunity point, since he seems to be so pleased with himself for having thought of it.

1) herd immunity is not some imaginary thing that Gupta et al thought up. It’s a working theory that has been a pillar of disease control for decades. It’s also the theory that explains why vaccination works. To dismiss it as “emphatically false” is ludicrous. I should add that herd immunity doesn’t eliminate a virus, it just creates a natural barrier to its spread and therefore greatly suppresses its incidence.
2) the 3 diseases he mentions as examples of herd immunity being imaginary:
– measles. We are, pretty much at herd immunity with measles and have been for a long time, since even before there was a vaccine for it. That’s why it’s been a disease almost exclusively of young people forever. Occasionally an older person would catch it, who hadn’t had it as a kid and it went badly for them. The fact that this was very occasional before a vaccine was because of… herd immunity. Kids weren’t immune because they hadn’t had it yet
– malaria. Stupid, stupid, stupid comparison. Malaria isn’t transmitted from human to human, so you can never reach herd immunity. Infected mosquitos infect humans, so there’s no way of using the immunity of other humans as a shield. Coronavirus passes from human to human, so if I’m immune then you can’t catch it from me and I can’t catch it from you
– ‘flu. ‘Flu mutates quickly, much more quickly than do coronaviruses and so immunity doesn’t last. We probably reach herd immunity to the strain of ‘flu that’s going round that year every winter. And then by the time that strain has come back around, it’s changed.

What you’re dealing with in Matt Hancock is a man who has been allowed to believe he’s cleverer than he is, being advised by people who don’t want him to know what he’s talking about and not being challenged by journalists, who also wouldn’t know what they were talking about even if they were minded to challenge him.

184691 ▶▶▶ Motke, replying to matt, 1, #1492 of 2450 🔗

Thanks, that makes sense. Richard also pointed out that malaria is spread by parasites- Hancock really shouldn’t be throwing out silly and false comparisons!

184734 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Motke, #1493 of 2450 🔗

He’s a silly and false man!

184732 ▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to matt, 6, #1494 of 2450 🔗

On your second point: That would have been my exact response too. Especially to have picked Malaria as an example. Hancock is an utter fucking idiot

184700 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Motke, 5, #1495 of 2450 🔗

we are not the kind of country that abandons our vulnerable, or just locks them up

Then I wonder what COVID-19: guidance on shielding and protecting people defined on medical grounds as extremely vulnerable published by Hancock’s department on 21 March says? From the archive

You are strongly advised to stay at home at all times and avoid any face-to-face contact for a period of at least 12 weeks from the day you r