2020-10-16

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/10/16/latest-news-164/
Published2020-10-16T02:45:21
Last updated2020-10-16T09:46:21
Scraped2020-12-20T20:18:08
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189558 Ceriain, replying to Ceriain, 27, #1 of 2158 🔗

Another Friday, another day of Government garbage.

btw. First! 😀

189570 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Ceriain, 27, #2 of 2158 🔗

Hello Lockdown Sceptics

Approximately 1500 people die a day in Britain – yesterday the recorded Covid deaths were 138
(died of any cause 28 days after a positive tests according to the Government own website)
Last 3 days 143, 137 , 138 death . For this we are killing the economy and freedom

Ivor Cummins: Terrifying stuff. Truly incredible car-crash TV on last night, on a top reputable current affairs show no less!
What in the name of God is going on here? Wtf is happening…to science itself?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPmWYFlUK54

189790 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #3 of 2158 🔗

A great video that needs sharing!

189989 ▶▶▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Bella Donna, 6, #4 of 2158 🔗

Hello Lockdown Sceptics

Full national lockdowns should ONLY be used against coronavirus as a last resort because of the ‘collateral damage’ on mental health, says WHO boss

But he said total lockdowns caused ‘collateral damage’ and should be avoided
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8846019/National-lockdowns-resort-says-boss.html

190404 ▶▶▶▶▶ Adam, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 4, #5 of 2158 🔗

Did Tedros get permission to speak from his chinese masters The Man makes Hancock competent in comparison this turd blossom Government must go

190625 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Adam, 4, #6 of 2158 🔗

Tedros is controlled by Bill Gates.

191174 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carlo, replying to Rowan, 1, #7 of 2158 🔗

And the CCP.

190176 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #8 of 2158 🔗

Agree, it’s excellent and very clear. MW

190248 ▶▶▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Bella Donna, 6, #9 of 2158 🔗

Hello Lockdown Sceptics

‘It’s a massive claim; I think the pandemic is fundamentally over
Former chief scientific advisor with Pfizer Mike Yeadon has said he believes the coronavirus pandemic is drawing to a close, despite rising cases in parts of the UK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMlfxnCJppE

Truth about the claims scaring us all to death: Soaring infections, teeming hospital wards, and terrifying death rates… but do the numbers justifying crippling new lockdowns REALLY stand up to scrutiny ?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8845533/Coronavirus-Soaring-infections-death-rates-claims-justify-lockdowns.html

190331 ▶▶▶▶▶ PAM, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 6, #10 of 2158 🔗

We desperately need to inculcate critical thinking skills to the nation’s children and young adults, I think it may be too late for (some of) the old dogs who occupy the Houses of Commons and Lords. That said, what political class would want scrutiny of their policies by a truly educated populace? Loss of control of free people, loss of narcissistic self interest, loss of the gravy train, loss of opportunities for gratuitous manipulation, loss of power? What cabal of front bench politicians would want that?

191080 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to PAM, 3, #11 of 2158 🔗

There’s a reason why certain things aren’t taught in schools. A classic one, as author Robert Kiyosaki often points out, is basic personal finance.

191664 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to PAM, #12 of 2158 🔗

The last thing a government wants is an educated population! Those who go university and choose a career in academia are usually brainwashed or Institutionalized.

190451 ▶▶▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #13 of 2158 🔗

Interview with annt

MP Chris Green, The First UK politician to resign from government over the crisis – 16th Oct 2020

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eBSwspojh4

190852 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sceptigal, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 3, #14 of 2158 🔗

I visited him two weeks ago and I like to think I convinced him! (to be fair he was most of the way there himself) maybe I should schedule a meeting with BoJo and Hancock…..

191269 ▶▶▶▶▶ sam, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #15 of 2158 🔗

maybe because he was served with notice of legal action?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9pm3Z6nFnk&feature=youtu.be

191290 ▶▶▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #16 of 2158 🔗

Hi BD

Mark Dolan: “We are killing Britain”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3oLyFQcGok

Mark Dolan: “We are killing Britain. We can’t do this forever. This virus isn’t going anywhere. Don’t be fooled by talk of a quick fix vaccine. That’s nothing more than snake oil.

191544 ▶▶▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Bella Donna, #17 of 2158 🔗

A Letter from today’s Telegraph

<i>SIR – Although I am able go to shops and restaurants, I miss being able to talk to shop attendants and waiters, and having a laugh. I am hard of hearing, so cannot make out what people are saying while they are wearing a mask.

I feel isolated and lonely, as I cannot speak to anyone.

David Hunter
Godalming, Surrey</i>

190231 ▶▶▶ PAM, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 7, #18 of 2158 🔗

There is many a dim bulb with a PhD or chair in an academy. Certainly, they are not well educated. It seems to me that this is the inevitable outcome of a failed system of education. Uneducated students from the lower levels of education lead to uneducated undergraduates, uneducated graduates, uneducated post graduates, and, ultimately uneducated professors. Seems to me that this is analogous to a very old Italian car (apologies to Italian car manufacturers) that rots from the bottom up. Hence, it seems to me, the total mess we are in.

191268 ▶▶▶ sam, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #19 of 2158 🔗

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9pm3Z6nFnk&feature=youtu.be
they work for the WEF and UN, not the people

191267 ▶▶ sam, replying to Ceriain, 1, #20 of 2158 🔗

SAGE have got everything wrong. They are working for the vaccine industry and Gates and friends at WEF
legal actions against individual MP’s starting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9pm3Z6nFnk&feature=youtu.be

189560 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 17, #21 of 2158 🔗

Local Live (mirror group news) reports total new cases for the County last week down 24% from the the previous seven days.

I thought it was supposed to be doubling. 😝

189566 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 21, #22 of 2158 🔗

‘Exponential rise’ still going strong.

“If you tell a big lie often enough people will come to believe it”.
Joseph Goebbels (speaking of the British).

191421 ▶▶ TJS123, replying to karenovirus, #23 of 2158 🔗

Patrick Vallance suggests there are “up to” 74,000 cases per day. Yahoo News reports this as “If there are 74,000 cases that would mean cases are four times higher than Government daily figures”. Well, IF cases were only 170, that would be a tenth of the cases reported in Government figures, and that’s not correct either. What’s with the scaremongering “if”?

189561 Chris John, 2, #24 of 2158 🔗

The 3rd way

189562 Eddie, replying to Eddie, 18, #25 of 2158 🔗

Very sad for you good folks in the UK – I’ll be raging mad if the lockdown switch is flicked on again where I live…compared to the first round (where I was accepting) a second go at it will really be hard to swallow knowing what I know now.

189577 ▶▶ annie, replying to Eddie, 3, #26 of 2158 🔗

Where are you, Eddie?

190653 ▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to annie, 6, #27 of 2158 🔗

Way over here in Canada, province of BC. I’m expecting we’ll get screwed again but I pay zero attention to our media so ignorance is bliss for now. All the best to you Ann!

191377 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Eddie, 1, #28 of 2158 🔗

BC is a wonderful place.
Let’s all join hands across the oceans – and continents.
Things are bad, but our spirit is unbowed.

189563 Judy Watson, replying to Judy Watson, 45, #29 of 2158 🔗

Has SAGE actually got anything right?

I have maintained all along that Sweden did the right thing. Very surprised that some Britons were so gullible to be taken in by the scaremongering crap.

189579 ▶▶ annie, replying to Judy Watson, 32, #30 of 2158 🔗

Some?Pretty well all of them. We are a nation of concrete-headed moronic cowards.
Present company excepted!

189609 ▶▶▶ Suzyv, replying to annie, 60, #31 of 2158 🔗

I have to agree. I have been speechless at the response by the vast majority. People I thought were intelligent completey neurotic and brainwashed and not doing one bit of research outside of the media to change this and it continues after all these months. I can’t mix with them any more. Even before all the research (although I started from day 1), I have never thought there was much of a risk unless already very sick and I want to shake people and say regardless, just get a grip of yourself and accept that from the minute you are born one thing is certain and that’s one day you are going to die.

189631 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Suzyv, 34, #32 of 2158 🔗

Neighbouring local authority reports first Covid death for 4 months (elderly lady) yet still people act as though we are facing medieval plague.

189796 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Suzyv, 9, #33 of 2158 🔗

But it was exactly the same during the Brexit Referendum wasn’t it?

190408 ▶▶▶▶ Adam, replying to Suzyv, 6, #34 of 2158 🔗

There is a slow waking up people need to do so faster

189654 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, 39, #35 of 2158 🔗

Sadly I agree with you. If my workplace is anything to go by, many of them simply get their news on the MSM and believe what they read. Even after all this time they haven’t done their research and social distancing and mask wearing has become a religion for them.

Despite the woes that our workplace is undergoing including the threat of compulsory redundancy (already certain to become a reality), many of them are still of the view that if only people obeyed the rules we will be OK.

I think the next few weeks, months will disavow them of that notion.

189738 ▶▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Bart Simpson, 17, #36 of 2158 🔗

My partner has been telling me for years that people don’t get their news from the MSM any longer. I said they were. Turns out I was right.

189760 ▶▶▶▶▶ D B, replying to Lili, 8, #37 of 2158 🔗

In part I think you both are – Facebook/Twitter et al is the main news source for a wide range of people I am in regular contact with.

189884 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to D B, 13, #38 of 2158 🔗

A lot of my colleagues read the BBC and some the Guardian. Facebook provides the confirmation bias that they already have.

189764 ▶▶▶▶ PaulH, replying to Bart Simpson, 14, #39 of 2158 🔗

It seems judges get all their info from the MSM too.

189955 ▶▶▶ James Marker, replying to annie, 16, #40 of 2158 🔗

Given all the SAGE and WHO propaganda relentlessly pumped out by the broadcast media (and my conspiracy theorist friends certainly have a point here) it’s not surprising that most people appear to support the lockdown.  It would help if the government did not pull any punches about the cost – millions of jobs destroyed, poorer life opportunities for young people, increased levels of poverty and all the other collateral damage. Rishi Sunak – over to you. At least The Telegraph, Sun and Daily Mail are now firmly in the lockdown sceptic camp.

190522 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to James Marker, 5, #41 of 2158 🔗

my conspiracy theorist friends …

Theorist ? Theorist ? At what point will you acknowledge the reality – troops on the streets ? cash banned ? ‘isolation’ camps ?

189612 ▶▶ John Ballard, replying to Judy Watson, 31, #42 of 2158 🔗

At least we know how the Germans in the 1930s were brainwashed

189614 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to John Ballard, 21, #43 of 2158 🔗

The Germans allowed Hitler into power to deal with a real and present problem not a phoney one.

190528 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to John Ballard, 13, #44 of 2158 🔗

(Not aimed at you, John.).

191105 ▶▶▶▶ Watt, replying to JohnB, 3, #45 of 2158 🔗

Ouch!

191456 ▶▶▶▶ petgor, replying to JohnB, 2, #46 of 2158 🔗

A worrying comment.

189795 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Judy Watson, 9, #47 of 2158 🔗

Unfortunately I wish it was only ‘some’ of us, most are braindead.

189886 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Bella Donna, 20, #48 of 2158 🔗

I don’t believe that. The problem is we are being isolated from each other, and lied to by pollsters. The mask aids the lie: most who wear it do so only out of fear, but the impression given by wearing it is of belief. Conversations I have, and others I eavesdrop, imply a much higher level of public scepticism than we are being told.

190054 ▶▶▶▶ GCarty80, replying to Ovis, 8, #49 of 2158 🔗

“Only out of fear” is too ambiguous: does it mean fear of being infected, fear of infecting others, fear of the authorities, or fear of vigilantes?

190443 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to GCarty80, 9, #50 of 2158 🔗

Fair point. Fear of ‘trouble’, not any virus

191112 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Watt, replying to Ovis, 4, #51 of 2158 🔗

Fear is a broad church…and a movable feast. Can spring on one anytime, just in a trice. Non-compliance and humour. Peaceful solution.

191379 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Ovis, 2, #52 of 2158 🔗

That’s the ones who rip the foul things off their faces the instant they leave the premises.

189921 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Judy Watson, 15, #53 of 2158 🔗

Sage is not tasked with getting anything right. It is tasked with destroying all that we might have held dear, crushing the economy and supporting the behavioural insights team with its brainwashing.

190103 ▶▶ Locked down and out, replying to Judy Watson, 19, #54 of 2158 🔗

Back in late March I was posting anti-lockdown and sceptical comments on various right-of-centre sites and getting plenty of abuse and a generally negative reaction. How times have changed. Still a mountain to climb, though, with the wider population of this country.

190282 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Locked down and out, 13, #55 of 2158 🔗

Ah yes, happy days. Abused by all and sundry. Feels like seven years ago, rather than seven months.

190424 ▶▶ Bill Grates, replying to Judy Watson, 2, #56 of 2158 🔗

Sage has/is getting it all right . But only in the terms set for it .

research the composition of the members and advisers , eg Deep Blue etc .
What do these people have to do with health ?
Why is actual medical expertise essentially excluded from any input ?

The details of the procedures that are in place and being undertaken are all laid out in the articles of the WHO international health regulations .

The people involved now are the ones who drew up the UK “Influenza pandemic preparedness plan” as required by the IHR.

When the WHO determines that a pandemic is occurring, the national IPPP kicks in ,overseen by the same WHO embedded enthusiasts that wrote the plan .
Van Tam , Valence , Ferguson etc etc . Whole careers have been spent in anticipation of this event and they are going to pursue it for all they can, and they give cover for the ulterior motives of the politicians.

Also see the UN/WHO Global Pandemic Monitoring Board , last September their report “World at risk” page 38
they require 2 system wide pandemic simulations to be carried out before 09/20.

This isn’t a conspiracy, it’s an agenda . They want to change everything about human society . The only thing still up for grabs is which political cohort gets to put their stamp on it .

for info on the ai revolution and monetising of life please visit
Wrench in the gears website . There are good explanatory vids , a bit long but very good .

190914 ▶▶ Burlington, replying to Judy Watson, 2, #57 of 2158 🔗

Abraham Lincoln said “You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.”The SAGE team just can’t accept they were wrong. They should be disbanded and replaced!

189564 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 25, #58 of 2158 🔗

When people have suffered enough then they will force the dictatorship out of power

At the moment the dictatorship can kill individuals and groups with impunity

People will fight for their freedom only when they realise that living like this is worse than dying and are prepared to lay down their lives in the cause

189578 ▶▶ Jo, replying to Cecil B, 42, #59 of 2158 🔗

Don’t think I am far off that now. It is utterly hopeless. Even the summer now seems like a Golden Age, you know, when restrictions were very slowly being lifted (but I am forgetting the north, sorry). Now it seems clear that the Pandora’s Box has been opened. The Govts have done with us what they will and it can never be right again. There truly is no going back. I actually had one of those moments yesterday, and again about an hour ago when I seriously wondered if I had actually died and gone to hell. It’s a joke I have made flippantly so many times before – and I know it’s solipsistic – but the thought really took root, at least temporarily. None of us in this country have ever known what it is like to be turned on at such a seismic level by those we vote for and pay (not that I voted for them but the others as bad). I have read the words “pure evil” on this site and I now know it is true.
If people are going to die for the cause it needs to be in an organised way, and that might be tricky to arrange!

189580 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Jo, 25, #60 of 2158 🔗

Remember that the kast thing to come out if Pandora’s box was Hope. Treasure it.

190495 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to annie, 1, #61 of 2158 🔗

While on the subject of hope, I recommend this video.

https://youtu.be/BiAeS-7vt2k

While you might find Richard’s delivery a bit grating in this video, his point is valid. He only recently started reading posts rather than simply speaking somewhat off-the-cuff. His main claim to fame is helping people recover from narcissistic relationships and complex PTSD.

189805 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Jo, 6, #62 of 2158 🔗

I’m pretty close to wanting to batter a few politicians heads in. 😠

191102 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Jo, 1, #63 of 2158 🔗

Can’t be organised online. Too many eyes…

189603 ▶▶ John Smith, replying to Cecil B, 30, #64 of 2158 🔗

Non compliance is the only way. I personally believe a general strike of “key” workers should do the trick easily.

Alternatively, all key workers phone in sick citing covid symptoms.

Play the fuckers at their own game.

189958 ▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to John Smith, 9, #65 of 2158 🔗

https://wagingnonviolence.org/2014/10/gandhi-win/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protest
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Lakey

Building critical mass is the way forward: leafleting, talking to others, writings, graffiti, posters, stickers; then individual non-compliance and the forming of activist groups; then individual and group actions – both traditional methods and creative ‘direct action’.

191146 ▶▶▶▶ Watt, replying to James Bertram, 2, #66 of 2158 🔗

Absolutely! Cellular level. Non-digital, hard copy, transferable, untraceable…well? Anyway, get the info out, and when the numbers are up and running…mass disobediance. Peaceful, of course. All the elderly, all those children..all out and about. Let’s get covid done by Xmas, eh what?

190416 ▶▶▶ Adam, replying to John Smith, 2, #67 of 2158 🔗

Remove the Tory government.org

189926 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Cecil B, 6, #68 of 2158 🔗

People had better wake up very soon and start doing something about it.

189565 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 14, #69 of 2158 🔗

From memory the Xhosa cattle killing omits an important detail. As the craze peaked the believers killed the cattle of the Sceptics and the Sceptics too.
Soz to be a downer. ☹

189687 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to karenovirus, 4, #70 of 2158 🔗

Mandela was a (posh) Xhosa. The old joke was what’s the difference between an optimist and a pessimist? The optimist is learning Zulu (Buthelezi) the pessimist is learning Xhosa.

190059 ▶▶▶ GCarty80, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 2, #71 of 2158 🔗

Was the joke you refer to one told by white South Africans during the late apartheid era, comparable to the one in late-WWII Germany about the optimists learning English and the pessimists Russian?

189568 Ceriain, 19, #72 of 2158 🔗

“SAGE is Worse Than Useless” Mike Yeadon

Don’t beat about the bush, Mike; tell us what you really think. 🙂

189569 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 11, #73 of 2158 🔗

By its own stupidity the dictatorship will soon defund itself

190261 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Cecil B, 2, #74 of 2158 🔗

However, Gates, Rockefeller, Rothschild, Soros &co will continue the funding.

We have to turn the complicit MPs or the police and military, deny labour and fill the streets with our bodies.

189571 Sir Patrick Vaccine, 4, #75 of 2158 🔗

Hello Toby’s Lockdown Sceptics

Approximately 1500 people die a day in Britain – yesterday the recorded Covid deaths were 138
(died of any cause 28 days after a positive tests according to the Government own website)
Last 3 days 143, 137 , 138 death . For this we are killing the economy and freedom

Ivor Cummins: Terrifying stuff. Truly incredible car-crash TV on last night, on a top reputable current affairs show no less!
What in the name of God is going on here? Wtf is happening…to science itself?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPmWYFlUK54

189572 JudgeMental, replying to JudgeMental, 42, #76 of 2158 🔗

The problem with the “it’s all one big cockup” theory is that the government aren’t just going on unprovable beliefs. They know exactly what they are doing and are lying about everything, the hospital admissions, the death rate, the vulnerability etc. It’s really difficult to believe that they are really this stupid.
The point in the summer when people had basically stopped dying of this virus but face masks were made mandatory would indicate another agenda was in place.
Why has there been no mention of the Great Reset by the editors on this site?

189589 ▶▶ chaos, replying to JudgeMental, 4, #77 of 2158 🔗

Perhaps he isn’t what he says he is?

189628 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to chaos, 5, #78 of 2158 🔗

To which “he” are you referring, and what does this “he” say he is?

189610 ▶▶ steph, replying to JudgeMental, 34, #79 of 2158 🔗

I still believe this is cock up, not conspiracy. I do believe we are now in a situation where major dishonesty is being enacted upon the population and that is due to backside covering. They do know they are lying, exaggerating and cherry picking data now but they don’t know how to stop, having backed themselves into a corner.
I know there will be people who say that we are not the only country doing this by any means but I think that’s just follow the herd. E.g “Oh look France is doing such and such so we’d better do it too or slightly more or be condemned as callous killers.”
Nearly all governments have panicked themselves into a zero Covid attempt and don’t know how to deal with the fact that it just can’t be achieved.
I could be very wrong of course …

189615 ▶▶▶ mrjoeaverage, replying to steph, 9, #80 of 2158 🔗

I would agree with you Steph as in a cock-up and saving face, rather than a conspiracy. If Blair was in charge, then a conspiracy may be more likely, but Johnson, Hancock et al…..I just don’t buy it, as quite simply, they lack basic intelligence.

189690 ▶▶▶▶ peter, replying to mrjoeaverage, 21, #81 of 2158 🔗

They are just actors reading a script, covid is a total hoax.
The best way to control the opposition is to lead it.

191297 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to peter, 2, #82 of 2158 🔗

Absolutely.
.

191289 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to mrjoeaverage, 4, #83 of 2158 🔗

No one in their right minds would suggest this was all being plotted by Bozo and Handjob. These two are bit players and their roles are to look dumb, so that people like you, will put it all down to incompetence and stupidity. This is much bigger than the UK and apart from a very few exceptions, it’s the same bloody nonsense the world over.

191503 ▶▶▶▶ Linda B, replying to mrjoeaverage, 4, #84 of 2158 🔗

I agree with this too. Blair evil – Johnson inept and Hancock is – well, words fail me – A health minister who does not know the difference between a virus and malaria and who says – Cancer patients might not get treatment if the covid numbers don’t come down or Don’t kill your granny — This man is a twit of the first order and must, like SAGE, be sacked. He is an embarrassment.. I voted for Boris Johnson – sadly he is not up to it ……

189623 ▶▶▶ Richard, replying to steph, 29, #85 of 2158 🔗

Whilst I can see concerning links to great rarest ideas etc am still just about ok with cock up theory – talking to someone this week who had no reason to lie and a connection into Cabinet Office – two things advised – firstly De Piffle does not like the job – it’s too much like hard work and requires detail and repetition none of which is his idea of what he thought the job would be and secondly (presumably as a result of point one) the basic project management around Covid is pretty much non existent so lurches from one thing to the next. Not sure how we dispose of him but he has to go

189651 ▶▶▶▶ steph, replying to Richard, 19, #86 of 2158 🔗

I said something similar on here yesterday but I had no inside knowledge of course. Good to get it confirmed. It seems to me that the PM thought he just had to be a figurehead whilst his team got Brexit done and then he would be lauded. Instead he has a real crisis and has no powers of critical thinking or man management to get us through this sensibly.
The Project Management question is interesting. Any Project Manager knows that you have to define success and it has to be achievable. The do nothing approach should also be considered sensibly which it clearly wasn’t here.

189688 ▶▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Richard, 22, #87 of 2158 🔗

Exactly. He screwed over Teresa May and was desperate to be PM to ‘get Brexit done’. He didn’t bank on a global pandemic royally fucking up his plans now he’s in way out of his depth and has no clue what to do. His main priority now is covering his own arse.

190421 ▶▶▶▶▶ Adam, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 2, #88 of 2158 🔗

His hands don’t reach that far

189718 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Richard, 20, #89 of 2158 🔗

Good old lazy Boris and his lack of attention to detail.Thats why the government lurches from one policy to the next.Sounds good until you realise that France,Belguim Spain Netherlands are using exactly the same methods.Are they all run by fat useless buffoons as well.

190044 ▶▶▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 5, #90 of 2158 🔗

I wrote this on BrexitFacts4EU yesterday – it adds a new perspective?
I get the impression that Johnson’s catastrophic positions on policy are heavily influenced by his father, Stanley:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wi
https://www.express.co.uk/n
– notably pro-China (5G), environment (The Great Reset?), and a globalist approach (ex-World Bank). He has written books on population control and Virus pandemics. Apparently, he will apply for French citizenship once Brexit is done.

I have to question whether Boris is working for the good of himself, or for the good of the country.
I expect he has noticed how well Mr Blair has done since being out of office.

190060 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ GCarty80, replying to James Bertram, 1, #91 of 2158 🔗

The links don’t work I’m afraid.

190160 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to GCarty80, 1, #92 of 2158 🔗
190323 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ GCarty80, replying to James Bertram, 3, #93 of 2158 🔗

Judging from his behaviour during March, I don’t think that Boris Johnson ever really wanted to lock down Britain: is it not more likely that he was somehow coerced into doing it, perhaps because the Chinese had compromised him through those family connections you refer to?

190879 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to GCarty80, 2, #94 of 2158 🔗

Rather than coercion, I was wondering whether there is family pressure to favour Chinese/Globalist/Environment policies? Inevitably that favouritism might then suggest there may be some kind of reward or pay-off for the wider family at large in the future? Johnson will not be Prime Minister for long, perhaps he doesn’t want to be, – so perhaps he is open to such persuasion?
Agreed he was panicked into Lockdown – however, what is of concern is that once the evidence came in that this was no worse than the flu, he continued with Lockdown. Why?
Many possibilities, and the above is just one more perspective.

189712 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to steph, 11, #95 of 2158 🔗

Did you know that covering up a mistake is also a conspiracy

189743 ▶▶▶▶ steph, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 6, #96 of 2158 🔗

I do agree with that view. However most read conspiracy as something even more sinister that systematic lying to cover backsides so I prefer not to use that term. I concede that technically it is a conspiracy as well.

189831 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to steph, 21, #97 of 2158 🔗

I think this goes beyond back covering.The vaccine part is not even conspiracy now,it’s government policy.Also digital/health passports.Thats policy too.You can see an embryonic police state taking shape.Scan a code wherever you go.No cash due to false reports,further source of surveillance.These are not the actions of people covering their backs.
Then look across the world and you see the response is pretty similar.This all starts to add up to something very sinister

191116 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #98 of 2158 🔗

In any crisis, or even pseudo-crisis such as the ‘Pandemic’, there are always disparate groups and individuals who will take advantage of it to drive their own agendas. Same thing happened in WW2. It doesn’t necessarily mean these groups are driving the events, just trying to manipulate them for their own ends.

189777 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 4, #99 of 2158 🔗

I believe that a conviction for Conspiracy carrys no limit on the prison sentence.

189714 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to steph, 11, #100 of 2158 🔗

Believe it Steph. The problem with the majority is they’re too trusting and do not think the government would do anything to harm us. They have, and will continue to do so.

189869 ▶▶▶ Lyra Silvertongue, replying to steph, 12, #101 of 2158 🔗

The way I see things, the govt didn’t really care too much back in Jan/Feb, and assumed that they’d be able to just babble on about hand washing and this would all blow over in a month or so. But once the media decided that this was going to be an apocalypse they HAD to respond, and in the meantime had realised that all this could be a nice little earner for all concerned – the MSM get everyone hooked on terror, billions could be doled out with no scrutiny to all their mates for tracing apps and masks and whatnot, and it provides a great distraction for the complete failure of Brexit negotiations. Tell everyone it’s ‘for the NHS’ and nobody will dare object. If Boris gets to be remembered as some Churchillian hero that’s a nice bonus, but don’t count on it.

191385 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Lyra Silvertongue, 3, #102 of 2158 🔗

He will be remembered. As the worst prime minister ever, leading (?) the worst government ever. His name will be a by-word for incompetence, stupidity and totalitarian malevolence.

Anybody else know C. S. Lewis’s The Last Battle ? Boris reminds me strongly of Shift the Ape. Wancock is more like Rishda Tarkaan. In the end, the devil-god Tash ate both of them,

189994 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to steph, 20, #103 of 2158 🔗

Who cares whether it is a conspiracy or a cock up?

It’s being on the Titanic as it is going down and arguing as to whether it crashed into the iceberg by accident or on purpose. It’s going down. It’s a disaster.

191123 ▶▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to stewart, 4, #104 of 2158 🔗

The difference is, if it’s a cock-up, the crew will throw lifebelts to you in the water. If it’s a conspiracy, they will start machine gunning you.

190390 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to steph, 5, #105 of 2158 🔗

Law of unintended consequences. The government wanted people to take notice of this new disease, so set out to scare them. That worked, but with the consequence that when some really bad news came out from Italy, people panicked. The press panicked. Panic spreads.

So the government locked down. Maybe because everyone else was doing it, maybe because Johnson and Micron are friends and had a little “chat”. But they locked down. An unintended consequence of the panic the government itself had helped in no small measure to create.

At what point does the government admit not only that it called the situation wrong, but also that it had been lying to the population. Hence the floundering around, looking for a way out, easing restrictions gradually and showing people it is now safe to come out.

But because nobody really understands the science in government (nor apparently, on the SAGE committee), the wild card, the joker in the pack, is the fresh increase in numbers who are now testing positive. And the whole panic thing starts all over again.

191106 ▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to steph, 1, #106 of 2158 🔗

I am less inclined to believe in an over-arching conspiracy now that central government seems keen on devolving Covid regulations to local government. If there really were a Bond Villain conspiracy, I hardly think they would risk delegating its execution to chain-wearing nonentities in northern town halls.

189632 ▶▶ Julian, replying to JudgeMental, 26, #107 of 2158 🔗

I doubt anyone, or many, here think this is pure cockup.

Initial blunder: Attention-seeking mad advice from scientists, combined with cowardice in the face of some risk and media, political and public pressure, and laziness from politicians and other scientists

Continued madness: Covering up the initial blunder, liking for easy power, various groups using the opportunity to push agendas, continued fear of being blamed for deaths

Are SAGE, Bill Gates, the WHO, big Pharma, big Tech, China, WEF all blameless saints who think of nothing but our own good? Of course not. Is some committee of these people sending orders to the PM – I doubt it.

I think my explanation for what has happened is entirely plausible.

As for the editors not mentioning the Great Reset, they may not buy it as a major factor or they may (IMO rightly) choose not to muddy the waters with anything that gives our enemies an easy route to attack us.

Unless the reasons mean we should change our approach to fighting the madness, they don’t matter right now. Best stick to core message.

189639 ▶▶▶ JudgeMental, replying to Julian, 13, #108 of 2158 🔗

And in a few years time when we wake up in the morning and realise that our lives have completely changed while this site is still arguing that the government is not following the science.

189659 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to JudgeMental, 20, #109 of 2158 🔗

And if we all woke up tomorrow and realised that it was in fact all a big plan put into motion by the WEF and Bill Gates, what difference would it make? If Toby’s blog tomorrow was entirely focused on exposing the Great Reset, what difference would it make? How would that change the strategy? Would it just mean that we could all sit around congratulating ourselves for being clever enough to see through it? Would it in any way change the options available to us for countering and resisting the narrative? Are the tools available to us to resist a globalist takeover any different to the tools available to resist a government that has made disastrous decisions and is stuck doubling down on its own narrative? Is it, perhaps, the case that the only difference it would make is that it would make it easier for people to dismiss this site and discredit the position it takes?

I’ve said it before – believe whatever you like, I will do the same. Surely we have enough to worry about without getting frustrated with each other and with the authors and editors of the blog for not accepting our truth? And frankly, if it irritates you so much, go and read a different blog instead. I’m sure there are plenty out there that agree with you.

189723 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to matt, 10, #110 of 2158 🔗

I think it helps if you understand the true motives of the people you are up against.
Reason and facts won’t win the day if you are up against someone with an agenda

189862 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #111 of 2158 🔗

But we’re using reason and facts on the general public. I don’t think many of us are trying to convince the PM we are right.

190193 ▶▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to matt, 7, #112 of 2158 🔗

No, you’re quite wrong about the “helplessness” which is often used to dismiss us. There is no helplessness about it. There is agorism, and many of us have been working day and night to make sure we can exist outside of the system. This is exhausting, completely “stuck in” work going fully self-sustainable, and – quite frankly – it’s a public service that we take time out at all to try to get everyone else to do the same. THAT’S humanity.

Believe what you want, indeed, but please don’t make claims that there is some sort of helpless flailing around happening behind the scenes simply because you wish to not peak behind the curtain.

Edit: My first allegiance is to my own children and securing their future. My second is to everyone else’s children. I don’t give two shits about the sheep, but their children are blameless. The more people who get the message about Agenda 21, the more children we save.

191386 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to TyLean, 1, #113 of 2158 🔗

Unfortunately, while lambs are appealing, they very quickly grow up to be sheep.

191430 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ janeinthemindfield, replying to TyLean, #114 of 2158 🔗

Where abouts are you? Would you be interested in having a like minded neighbour? I would be very interested in meeting with others to live on the land and try and save my children as well… my kids are very resistant to leaving the city and living on our own in the middle of nowhere! I have lived off grid quite a bit at various times in my life.

190565 ▶▶▶▶▶ TT, replying to matt, 3, #115 of 2158 🔗

In my humble opinion, evidence-based arguments are key here: while there are plenty of concrete facts that can be adduced to demolish the various governments’ handling of the crisis, unfortunately there is as yet only circumstancial evidence for the plot to usher in a technocratic surveillance state under the guise of ‘fighting the virus’… Until some damning written evidence of collusion surfaces, or a credible whistleblower starts spilling the beans, what can you do on that front apart from always pointing to the same old ‘writing on the wall’, over and over again? The MSM-indoctrinated flock will never allow their reality to be shattered to pieces as long as they can avoid it…

189859 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to JudgeMental, 8, #116 of 2158 🔗

We’re mainly refining arguments to use to persuade ordinary people this is all nonsense, the main and most compelling argument being that the cure is worse than the disease and that the government are making it up as they go along

189991 ▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to JudgeMental, 6, #117 of 2158 🔗

Toby’s doing just fine. He is doing sterling work in exposing the narrative.

Thanks Toby!

PS – I don’t think its cock-uo eitehr.

189993 ▶▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to calchas, #118 of 2158 🔗

cockup either.

190206 ▶▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to calchas, 7, #119 of 2158 🔗

Here, here… Toby is doing wonderful work!

189985 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Julian, 7, #120 of 2158 🔗

We have seen what a great deaal of attention hydroxyychloroquine has received as a possible medication.

Why was hydroxychloroquine made ‘prescription only’ in France on January 13th 2020, after being available over the counter for more than 60 years?

i

190174 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Julian, 3, #121 of 2158 🔗

I think perhaps some are recent converts and will therefore take longer to get there. It’s not an easy pill to swallow for sure. If everyone knew, it would stop for sure, because no one but the extraordinarily wealthy (1% of 1% of 1%) and utter morons could want that future.

189700 ▶▶ GuyRich, replying to JudgeMental, 22, #122 of 2158 🔗

How long do cock-ups, lying, ,saving face, arse covering, excuses and ignoring the data have to go on for before this becomes a conspiracy in the minds of most people?

This goes way beyond a virus at this point and while we all debate over the minutia of the virus itself such as CFR, IFR, infection (case(Positive PCR)) rates, false positives, hospitalisations, ventilator usage, where to wear retarded face nappies etc etc etc, the juggernaut of the NWO moves on, gaslighting the shit out of us.

I can only see that this is moving to a point where people become so tired, so desperate with their own situations, be it financial, psychological etc, that they will end up taking any and all Government handouts such as debt relief (and the subsequent relinquishment of private property a la UN Agenda 21/2030), UBI, vaccine, digital health passports just to ‘have a normal life’.

You have no idea how wrong I want to be about this but the trend towards the total enslavement of mankind has not been curtailed in my view. The biggest problem is that it appears that most men and women WANT their own enslavement because they don’t know that’s what it is.

I’ll leave two Aldous Huxley quotes here:

“The real hopeless victims of mental illness are to be found among those who appear to be most normal. “Many of them are normal because they are so well adjusted to our mode of existence, because their human voice has been silenced so early in their lives, that they do not even struggle or suffer or develop symptoms as the neurotic does.” They are normal not in what may be called the absolute sense of the word; they are normal only in relation to a profoundly abnormal society. Their perfect adjustment to that abnormal society is a measure of their mental sickness. These millions of abnormally normal people, living without fuss in a society to which, if they were fully human beings, they ought not to be adjusted.”

“A really efficient totalitarian state would be one in which the all-powerful executive of political bosses and their army of managers control a population of slaves who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude.”

189711 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to GuyRich, 18, #123 of 2158 🔗

Even if they find a vaccine, which is unlikely, our lives will never return to normal, they have no intention of allowing it to. People need to wake up and realise this! We’re being conned!

189720 ▶▶▶ GuyRich, replying to GuyRich, 11, #124 of 2158 🔗

And to add to that, my own despair is that I cannot see a way out of this seeming inevitability. Short of creating communities that attempt to live off the land and become totally self sufficient (which people are attempting), I am so, so far away from being able to do that that I perceive I will end up reluctantly accepting all of the impending restrictions on my freedom. I can genuinely see how people are already giving up and committing suicide.

190901 ▶▶▶▶ HoMojo, replying to GuyRich, 6, #125 of 2158 🔗

Why commit suicide? Go out and fight. At least you can take a couple of the bastards with you.

191156 ▶▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to GuyRich, 5, #126 of 2158 🔗

Be of good cheer. A certain Austrian gentleman not so long ago thought his empire would last 1000 years, and within 12 years it was in ruins. As the hymn puts it, ‘Pride of man and earthly glory…tower and temple, turn to dust’. Nothing in this mortal life is inevitable, nor lasts forever.

191432 ▶▶▶▶ janeinthemindfield, replying to GuyRich, 3, #127 of 2158 🔗

As I said to TyLean above, I think we should try and create communities which live off the land off grid. I have had some experience of this and its hard work, but possible. Much better in groups so long as people have their own space.

189751 ▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to GuyRich, 12, #128 of 2158 🔗

Guy, I totally agree with you. Although I do need to say that I don’t think it matters at the moment, what matters is that we resist and then start to fight back, not on the terms of the enemy (for that’s what they truly are) but on our terms for what is important to us. Cheers, Arnie.

189825 ▶▶▶▶ GuyRich, replying to Arnie, 30, #129 of 2158 🔗

I have resisted as much as I feel I am able to, even wasted a colossal amount of time writing to my MP several times and signing petitions. I have stuck leaflets/posters on walls and lamp posts in my local area and engaged vocally with anyone that will listen. I think most of my work colleagues think I’m crazy.

And I am yet to wear a retarded face nappy. I have worked in Pharmaceutical Manufacturing, Cleanroom Environmental Monitoring, Pharmaceutical Microbiology and Microbiology Culture Media Manufacturing, all in Quality Assurance and Quality Control roles, to know that face coverings DO NOT FU*KING WORK!!!!!!!

191388 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to GuyRich, #130 of 2158 🔗

So now we have a really, really, really efficient totalitarian state.

190042 ▶▶ claire, replying to JudgeMental, 1, #131 of 2158 🔗

I assume no mention of it so that this site doesn’t get taken down…

191274 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to JudgeMental, 1, #132 of 2158 🔗

Amazingly some people are as yet giving the government the benefit of the doubt and still going with the cockup and incompetence theory. Understandable for a week or two but it was clear by early April that the whole Coronavirus fiasco was about much more than a mystery virus. Ask Bill vaccine tsar Gates he knows what the real agenda is.

189573 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 24, #133 of 2158 🔗

From the roundup
‘Supermarket rationing did not prevent stockpiling’ which as Toby says was rather obvious at the time.
Note the scary blame words ‘panic buying’ and ‘hoarding’ have been given the Ministry of Truth treatment.

Seemed perfectly obvious at the time that if the government tells you to stay home for two weeks, possibly longer, the first thing you are going to do is get three weeks groceries in.
Added to which one third of food consumed is in restaurants, take aways, pubs hotels, canteens at work, universities and schools.
All that eating was replaced overnight by food bought from shops.

189576 ▶▶ Censored Dog, replying to karenovirus, 3, #134 of 2158 🔗

It’s still stupid and inconsiderate, though. But notice how there hasn’t been any panic buying recently, even though we are supposed to be going on another national lockdown next week

189584 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Censored Dog, 30, #135 of 2158 🔗

Nobody I know has been panic buying this time around because thankfully none of them have any intention of going along with a lockdown. The mood is changing. I live in a very upper middle class country village, normally very law abiding. They may not be very loud about it, but on the quiet they are voting with their feet and saying “enough”. Plenty of home delivery slots available, no panic.

189608 ▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to CarrieAH, 7, #136 of 2158 🔗

Same

189657 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to CarrieAH, 10, #137 of 2158 🔗

Same here. Lots of food, toilet paper and treats for Halloween too.

I think you’re right as well – people are less inclined to go along with a lockdown now especially as for many they won’t have any jobs to return to when furlough ends.

189706 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #138 of 2158 🔗

A second Lockdown will be treated very differently from the first.

189810 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bella Donna, 4, #139 of 2158 🔗

Agree. I think people will find creative ways of going about it.

189929 ▶▶▶▶ Steve, replying to CarrieAH, 2, #140 of 2158 🔗

Similar effect to last time going on at the store where I work. Lot more empty spaces on the shelves, people buying that bit more than normal, with average size of the deliveries increasing again.

189581 ▶▶ Jo, replying to karenovirus, 5, #141 of 2158 🔗

A certain optician sent an email to all its employers in the last few days telling them to stock up on food and other essentials. The employee then passed this advice on to their family.

190516 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Jo, 2, #142 of 2158 🔗

No trouble getting an online delivery slot either. Had my usual monthly delivery yesterday with all items (with a couple of substitutes) delivered. Just checked and still delivery slots available with better availability a week out, per usual.

Perhaps the supermarkets have recognised that people are fed up of dealing with the shops and we’re in a semi-permanent switch to online supermarket shopping.

189684 ▶▶ Mr Jim McGregor, replying to karenovirus, 40, #143 of 2158 🔗

But hasn’t the food industry done a fantastic job, from manufacturing to retailing? While the middle classes hide behind the couch, the workers are out there in crap jobs, cold conditions, making your ready meals, cans of soup, beans, pasta, fish fingers, baking bread, keeping the supply chain going. The delivery drivers are out there getting the stuff to the stores so you don’t need to stockpile any more. The retailers are getting the stock on the shelves, always open, ready for your custom. The food industry is the unsung hero of this whole shambles. Protect the NHS? If the food industry falters, the country will collapse within days.

189933 ▶▶▶ Steve, replying to Mr Jim McGregor, 9, #144 of 2158 🔗

And with none of us getting ill either. And considering how many pickers were in the shop at the height of covid, social distancing was impossible.

190006 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mr Jim McGregor, 1, #145 of 2158 🔗

The problem for producers was that they could not convert their distribution from commercial outlets to retail/domestic overnight.
They have now largely done so.

191166 ▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Mr Jim McGregor, 3, #146 of 2158 🔗

That is one heartening aspect of this sorry mess. When Lockdown was first announced, I wasn’t really scared of the Covids, but of the public’s reaction to it, and I genuinely expected food shortages and rioting/looting etc. The army was also superb in building the Potemkin hospitals, shame they were just for show, but at least it shows we can build that sort of thing quickly if required.

189703 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to karenovirus, 6, #147 of 2158 🔗

Supermarkets are the real winners, I wonder if they’re donating lots of money to the government.

189879 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to karenovirus, 3, #148 of 2158 🔗

From a good friend who has a senior role in supermarket distribution logistics – there wasn’t really any panic buying. If you think about the main items that ran out (1. loo roll, 2. bread, 3. milk).
They have a really high turnover in the store because everyone buys them. They’re also really bulky so have to be replenished several times a day. As soon as they don’t do that in time it looks like they’ve sold out when they haven’t.
People naturally then buy extra if they can because they’re busy working families who can’t function without these items and don’t have the opportunity to drive around all week looking for them. Cupboards of loo roll (or freezers of food staples) don’t really have any negatives because we all they’ll get used eventually.
Anyway, my point is that it’s a supply side problem in the first place that then triggers a demand problem.

189936 ▶▶▶ Steve, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, 1, #149 of 2158 🔗

There was definitely some panic buying. Some customers buying multiple crates worth of milk and bread.

190507 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to karenovirus, 2, #150 of 2158 🔗

No idea if this is connected, but I’ll mention here that on Monday our university bus service was suddenly cut from half-hourly to hourly. The timetable was also changed. No announcement, nothing on the website. I use this daily to get to my allotment and I wasn’t the only one caught unawares from what I’ve overheard.

Is this preparation for the Great Half Term Lockdown, or simply the bus company and the university realising that there are far fewer students using the bus?

191501 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to ConstantBees, #151 of 2158 🔗

Probably the latter, I drove through the local campus today, it was as deserted as during the summer vacation.

189574 RyanM, replying to RyanM, 24, #152 of 2158 🔗

The John Snow thing is additionally funny because, while he rejected the miasma theory for cholera, it is that very same nonsense that drives the push for masks.

189575 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to RyanM, 4, #153 of 2158 🔗

Very good point Ryan.
btw, very late yesterday you remarked how much of the Western USA has become Federal property. I replied that it is covered in the feature ‘Endgame’ that I had posted about an hour or so previously.
When I first saw that many years ago I thought it all rubbish but parts of it are starting to make sense (it also warned about Bill Gates 13 years ago).

189582 ▶▶ annie, replying to RyanM, 33, #154 of 2158 🔗

I thought that, way back at the beginning of the bollox, when parks were closed so that people couldn’t go there and breathe at each other.
One nineteenth-century doctor was so convinced that cholera germs were not water-borne that to refute the idea, he publicly drank a glass if water deliberately contaminated with the ‘eliminations’ of a cholera sufferer. The doctor died of cholera. His colleagues ignored the warning.
For literally millennia, up to the mid nineteenth century, medical orthodoxy remained wedded to completely false theories that resulted in almost every medical intervention making matters worse.Now the cretins are at it again.

189586 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to annie, 16, #155 of 2158 🔗

PS.

“Conventional treatment consisted of enemas, castor oil , calomel (mercurous chloride; a purgative), gastric washing, venesection (bloodletting), opium, brandy, and plugging of the anus to prevent fluid from escaping. Mortality due to cholera remained high throughout the 19th century.” (Wimipedia)

Looks like SAGE and the WHO were ar work even thrn.

189596 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 8, #156 of 2158 🔗

Don’t forget the leeches

189599 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 16, #157 of 2158 🔗

Certainly not, though I’m. told that medicinal leeches do have their uses. Unlike the ones in government.

189770 ▶▶▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to karenovirus, 7, #158 of 2158 🔗

I’m fully expecting a page on blood letting to appear on Wikipedia, backed by the WHO

190146 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to PoshPanic, 2, #159 of 2158 🔗

Some alternative practitioners approve of blood-letting. So unlikely to be WHO backed. 🙂

190577 ▶▶▶▶ TT, replying to annie, 1, #160 of 2158 🔗

I’d take opium & brandy (no need for plugging of the anus, given sufficient opium) over their crappy vaccines any day …

189890 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to RyanM, 4, #161 of 2158 🔗

The Ghost Map is a brilliant book about John Snow for anyone who’s interested in epidemiology.

189583 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 11, #162 of 2158 🔗

People will sit in their houses and starve themselves to death until the dictator tells them not to (which won’t be anytime soon)

189587 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, 18, #163 of 2158 🔗

If people are that stupid, good riddance. A welcome bit of positive Darwinism.

189997 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Cecil B, #164 of 2158 🔗

Good. Let them.

189585 chaos, 5, #165 of 2158 🔗

Connecting the Dots: The Great Reset & The Fourth Industrial Revolution
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O31AfWoBfaI

189590 Mars-in-Aries, replying to Mars-in-Aries, 9, #166 of 2158 🔗

So, SAGE should be disbanded and reconstituted. Who will reconstitute SAGE? Who will decide who the members should be? At present, the committee membership is decided by the Government Chief Scientific Adviser, Sir Patrick Vallance.

I would suggest the real problem is that there is no such thing as “the science” for the Government to follow, and we do not have the breadth and depth of expertise in the Civil Service to give the Government balanced and considered advice. What we have is one man who calls upon a group of outside ‘experts’ of his choosing, to push an argument that he considers is in the best interests of his own legacy and reputation.

Yes, SAGE should be disbanded. But the manner of its reconstitution must be a matter of careful consideration.

189594 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mars-in-Aries, 13, #167 of 2158 🔗

Aldous Huxley warned that a future dictatorship would be driven by medics and scientists, for our own good, but that’s the problem with dictatorships, they tend to be self-selecting.

189695 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Mars-in-Aries, 5, #168 of 2158 🔗

It seems the Science can be anything you want it to be, like a hooker!

190422 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #169 of 2158 🔗

If you pay it enough.

191392 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bella Donna, #170 of 2158 🔗

Science can certainly prostitute itself, very like a hooker.

190150 ▶▶ Stephanos, replying to Mars-in-Aries, #171 of 2158 🔗

Why reconstitute it? Do we need it? Why do we need it? And if it were to be agreed to be reconstituted then not one person, not one, should be allowed to the new body, if he or she were present on the old. Start with a completely new set of staff. Unlike Public Health England or whatever the group is called.

189593 JudgeMental, replying to JudgeMental, 13, #172 of 2158 🔗

PARIS (Reuters) – Police raided the homes and offices of France’s health minister, its public health director and former prime minister on Thursday as a judicial investigation into the government’s response to the coronavirus crisis deepened.”

Sounds promising!

”… which aims to establish whether those in charge at the outset of the outbreak showed a “lack of will to fight a disaster”

Sigh

189600 ▶▶ annie, replying to JudgeMental, 3, #173 of 2158 🔗

If there had been less will to ‘fight’ the ‘disaster’, there would have been no disaster.

BTW, what were the police looking for?

189677 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to annie, 2, #174 of 2158 🔗

I wondered that too? What could they have been keeping indoors that might be of use??

190140 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to annie, 1, #175 of 2158 🔗

Probably high-grade government-only drugs. 🙂

190001 ▶▶ stewart, replying to JudgeMental, 2, #176 of 2158 🔗

It just gets scarier and scarier.

This is really becoming a reign of terror.

189597 Jon G, replying to Jon G, 5, #177 of 2158 🔗

I’m highly sceptical of the government’s Covid approach and think the threat posed by the virus is overblown.

I think much of the current approach is rooted in an attempt to justify inept policy that’s in itself caused tens of thousands of early deaths.

HOWEVER… I’ve lost some faith in this website.

It keeps telling me things that turn out to be wrong, and then doesn’t acknowledge its errors.

‘Case increase isn’t reflecting increased levels of Covid, as there’s no associated hospitalisation and death’ [Hospitalisation and death increase]

‘The Spanish autumn increase in Covid peaked on September 17th’ [Still going strong]

‘The false positive rate is around 1%’ [Actual positive rate massively below 1% across the vast majority of testing for the last few months]

Reading back through a few posts there are loads of examples of incorrect predictions.

Which isn’t the end of the world; it’s still an excellent resource with a strong argument. I just think it’d be a stronger one if it was a bit more measured and acknowledged errors.

What do people on here think we should actually do about Covid? Nothing? Tbh I could probably go along with that, but the argument would have to be presented with an acknowledgment that doing nothing would probably result in a fair bit more Covid death. Exactly how much is debatable but it would almost certainly be less overall death than if we continue to try & suppress it.

I’m a fan of GB focused protection, but what would that actually look like? Eg would we stop people visiting care homes, which is absolutely inhumane? If not there’s no focused protection.
There’s difficult conversations to be had.

I think SAGE are a waste of time, and we should stop myopically focusing on Covid – it’s one risk among many, and an overblown one at that – but it does exist and does in my opinion does require some sort of strategy to mitigate its harm – doesn’t it?

189602 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Jon G, 4, #178 of 2158 🔗

‘The false positive rate is around 1%’ [Actual positive rate massively below 1% across the vast majority of testing for the last few months]

I believe you’re wrong there. I think what you’re doing is interpreting the ‘N per hundred thousand of the population’ figure as being the percentage of positive tests. (That would be the sensible way of doing it if the tests were random). This figure is often way below 1%.

But I think that what actually happens is that they do some testing in Bolton or wherever that returns, say, 100 positive tests. They then use that as the numerator, and the whole population of Bolton as the denominator. In fact, it is perfectly compatible with there being 1% false positives, and the government themselves found the median false positive rate to be 2.3% in June.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/895843/S0519_Impact_of_false_positives_and_negatives.pdf

Ironically, the way they do it seems to downplay the absolute incidence of the disease, but the advantage for the government is that the fixed denominator allows them to modulate the trends as they see fit by modulating the amount of testing. The government’s fear strategy is based on trends, not (supposed) absolute prevalence of the virus.

189604 ▶▶ annie, replying to Jon G, 16, #179 of 2158 🔗

Most certainly we must acknowledge errors. You are pointing them out. That is a vital contribution.
We have loads of theories on the go. Some I wholly disbelieve. But I do want them aired and debated. Tunnel vision is the sin of our enemies.
As for strategies to mitigate harm – the G, B. Declaration points the way. And you do have to balance Covid harm against lockdown harm.

189788 ▶▶▶ Jon G, replying to annie, 3, #180 of 2158 🔗

Thanks

189617 ▶▶ Sally, replying to Jon G, 10, #181 of 2158 🔗

This seems like a bit of a troll post. For example, you say that if visits to nursing homes aren’t stopped then there’s no focused protection. This is ridiculous. There are many things you can do besides stopping visitors, such as screening visitors, testing staff and separating sick residents. Then there is protection of vulnerable people living in their own homes, which is an entirely different question.

189780 ▶▶▶ Jon G, replying to Sally, 3, #182 of 2158 🔗

If you think polite questions are trolling you might be a bit of a snowflake! Maybe I should’ve phrased the GB bit more clearly – I suppose I was just saying that even that response would come at some cost, but the details of how we would deal with care homes are open to discussion, I agree.

190128 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jon G, 1, #183 of 2158 🔗

and does in my opinion does require some sort of strategy to mitigate its harm

This is more like snowflakery.

189620 ▶▶ mrjoeaverage, replying to Jon G, 18, #184 of 2158 🔗

Sorry Jon, but with the greatest of respects, I would wholeheartedly disagree with this. This website has been a saviour for me, a platform to share views with like minded individuals, and to experience the realisation that you are not alone in critical thinking. Toby has been instrumental in pushing this, and the very fact he is still asked for views in numerous media shows there is still a place for this.

Corrections are more for a newspaper, where essentially it is found that outright lying has taken places. Inaccuracies here are likely less common than that in MSM which you should remember, and it is extremely difficult to keep up with an ever fluid situation.

Stay strong, and be thankful you have a sanctuary away from biased media!

189791 ▶▶▶ Jon G, replying to mrjoeaverage, #185 of 2158 🔗

Fair enough

189625 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Jon G, 8, #186 of 2158 🔗

Well, I think the fundamental sceptic case that most here subscribe to is that the bar for the kind of interventions we have seen is set far too low.

On any rational basis, if you do a cost benefit analysis the cost side is orders of magnitude higher than the benefit, assuming of course there is any benefit to the interventions, which is highly questionable.

As for incorrect predictions or statements, that’s inevitable. But in general those predictions and statements are attempts to sell our case without having to resort to the argument that is at once the best and the hardest to sell, which is that governments cannot stop viruses (nothing can) and we have to carry on as best we can. It’s easier to sell the case that the “pandemic” is over. It may not be over in the sense that no-one will ever die of covid again, but it is probably over in the sense that the kind of spike of deaths in April and May probably won’t be repeated and we will have seasonal fluctuations in line with other respiratory conditions.

Mitigation is along the lines of protecting those who are unable to protect themselves (i.e. dementia sufferers in care homes who cannot make their own decisions) and advising people of the risks so they can make their own decisions, and making sure you have critical care capacity as best you can (without turning the NHS into a National Covid Service) and encouraging research into the best treatments (and possibly vaccines, though it’s complicated) and preventative advice.

189797 ▶▶▶ Jon G, replying to Julian, #187 of 2158 🔗

Thanks

189635 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Jon G, 33, #188 of 2158 🔗

What do people on here think we should actually do about Covid – there is nothing we can do. The virus has a 99.9% survival rate so as like all other years we get on with our lives.

In 6 months I haven’t met anyone or bumped into anyone who looks remotely on deaths door all I see are frightened depressed people.

As a responsible human being and member of society if I feel sick I stay indoors and keep my distance. I don’t need to be told to do it.

We are tying ourself up in knots working out IFR’s, false positive rates, PCR cycles and data. It’s all an illusion, mother nature is a bitch.

I’ve got more chance of being run over by a bus.

Fuck them all, ruining our lives over the flu, it killed approximately 60k people in 2018.

189694 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to stefarm, 20, #189 of 2158 🔗

I don’t think we should be doing anything other than taking responsibility for our own health. The government can advise but that’s as far as it should go. There has been no Covid in our household, nor in our extended family or friends. So as far as I am concerned this is an overhyped scaremongering agenda from our government who is deliberately harming our lives. They should be brought to book for this in Court!

190132 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to stefarm, 3, #190 of 2158 🔗

I’ve got more chance of being run over by a bus.

You’ve got more chance of being run over by a pink bus with ‘Johnson is a cunt’ on the side.

191397 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to JohnB, 2, #191 of 2158 🔗

One just went by. I dodged it.

190186 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to stefarm, 4, #192 of 2158 🔗

The only realistic endpoint is herd immunity. We know pretty much who is vulnerable and who is not. All the government needs to do is offer protection to anyone who is vulnerable (isolate care homes, have food deliveries for the elderly etc…) and leave everyone else to crack on. Note that this should not infringe on personal freedom – anyone, regardless of how vulnerable they are, should be free to make their own decisions and ignore government advice. In 2-3 months max we’d be through this thing and probably less would die in the long term than are going to die by letting this virus hang around indefinitely.

189637 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Jon G, 9, #193 of 2158 🔗

Stop taking the bait folks. This from TE and his minions at the 77th

189638 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Cecil B, 5, #194 of 2158 🔗

They have obviously run out of panties to sniff

189653 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to stefarm, 4, #195 of 2158 🔗

So that’s the real reason for face nappies!

189784 ▶▶▶ Jon G, replying to Cecil B, 2, #196 of 2158 🔗

I literally don’t know what you’re referring to!! Maybe I should, but whatever it is I assure you I’m not part of it!
I’m a lockdown sceptic and fairly regular poster on here, generally to support lockdown scepticism.
Genuine question: is there a possibility you see conspiracy in more places than it actually exists?

190137 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jon G, 1, #197 of 2158 🔗

Nah. Your post got flack for being about some virus or other.

The issues now include dictatorship, human freedom, and the way ahead.

189678 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Jon G, 2, #198 of 2158 🔗

Covid is a bigger scam than Climate change. How they must be laughing at us!

190537 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #199 of 2158 🔗

And yet how funny it is that not all of us believe that climate change is a scam. I do think that the covid reaction has been blown out of all proportion to the risk.

Like 5G, Bill Gates, etc. etc. etc., I think there are more immediately relevant things to discuss than climate change.

189698 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Jon G, 7, #200 of 2158 🔗

There are a few of us here who regularly set out what we think the government should do:

This is a short summary, without links to evidence (which I can provide) that I posted on here a couple of days ago and then sent to Sir John Redwood MP:

‘….emulate those countries who have done better both in terms of health and economic outcomes than we have, for example: Japan and Sweden.

Sweden had some problems with care home mortality, but Japan has protected their elderly and infirm.

We can do the same: frequent hand washing, high standards of hygiene, restricted access, disciplined movement/human interactions by care home workers and voluntary BCG vaccination for those healthcare workers/elderly/vulnerable who have not been so vaccinated.’

189705 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Tim Bidie, 9, #201 of 2158 🔗

And turn off the news!

189786 ▶▶▶ Jon G, replying to Tim Bidie, #202 of 2158 🔗

Thanks

189774 ▶▶ Jon G, replying to Jon G, 8, #203 of 2158 🔗

Thanks for all your replies – some food for thought.

Just to be clear (if I wasn’t in my original post), I’m absolutely a sceptic of the reaction to Covid; I think it’s hysterical and ridiculous.

I was just wondering what some of you would suggest as an alternative response (and I don’t think there necessarily needs to be agreement between you/us on the detail).

Again to be clear, I think I’d be fairly comfortable with the response consisting of not much at all.

My one concern about this site is that it’s becoming a bit of a religion and not really conducive to critical thought or debate, but most of your responses have allayed my fears in that direction.

190228 ▶▶▶ Jo, replying to Jon G, 2, #204 of 2158 🔗

I have some sympathy for you, because we were all thinking back in the summer that there would be no “second wave” and yet in many countries, including here, the hospital, ICU and death rates have been rising. I must admit my heart sinks when I look at those rising figures. BUT what I would say to you is:
1) Like other respiratory illnesses, they increase at this time of year and hospitalisations and some deaths are inevitable;
2) There are problems with the accuracy of the data – both in hospital admissions and deaths – while it is almost certainly true that there have been increases (see 1) above), many of the deaths and hospital admissions are attributed to Covid when they should not be (ie only a positive, possibly false positive test, when a person is in hospital for another condition altogether, even a brief visit to A&E – these things have all been identified by medical practitioners on this site);
and 3) there needs to be a sense of perspective – look at the graphs such as https://euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps and many others, and you will see that there is no real cause for alarm, compared to the incidence of all respiratory illnesses.
Then lastly, 4) Look at the damage these lockdowns are causing – no shortage of material here and also in certain newspapers! Look at who is being temporarily “saved” compared to those whose lives are being cut short by decades, not to mention their livelihoods and life opportunities being lost.

190301 ▶▶▶▶ Jon G, replying to Jo, 2, #205 of 2158 🔗

Thanks – that all seems eminently reasonable. My sense too is that the current increase in infection will be commensurate to seasonal flu, etc.

Eg if 100/day die for the next 3 months that’ll be 9k, which is well within the flu range. But no doubt it’ll be presented as a health catastrophe!

And we’d have to assume those deaths are from the same population that succumb to flu, so there’ll be a big overlap there, rather than simply 9k more deaths than most years.

Re the costs of the response, clearly they are and will increasingly be massive, mainly amongst the poorest. I think we’d all agree the western response could be called morally outrageous.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

190219 ▶▶ Sceptical Lefty, replying to Jon G, 1, #206 of 2158 🔗

Focused protection in the context of choice – allowing visitors to care homes if that is the wish of the individual

189598 Mark Tinker, replying to Mark Tinker, 17, #207 of 2158 🔗

Surely there is no need for green band and red band, simply signal you are a red band type by wearing a mask. If you have one on and I don’t we can stay away from each other. Occam’s razor and all that.

189605 ▶▶ Sally, replying to Mark Tinker, 6, #208 of 2158 🔗

Not everyone wants to wear a mask. Even those who wish to “shield” may be aware that a mask isn’t going to help or they just might not want to wear one.

189607 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Sally, 10, #209 of 2158 🔗

I’m convinced that most people in my part of the world don’t want the foul things, but they dread the consequences if they don’t conform. Almost nobody knows there are exemptions, and the Welsh government have made it very hard to find out.

189627 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to annie, 11, #210 of 2158 🔗

Exemptions are theoretical, not practical. Even if a shop observes the law regarding exemptions, members of the public won’t. And even if you’re legally in the right, who wants to have a public argument with a policeman or, even worse, a tinpot ‘Covid marshal’?

So the anxious person will be more anxious than ever if they don’t wear the mask. Result: people put the masks on, or they stay at home.

189672 ▶▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Barney McGrew, 26, #211 of 2158 🔗

Masks are the biggest of the daily life issues for me. I am not medically exempt, but I don’t want to wear one because of how it makes me feel. Even worse though is how it makes me feel to be in a place where everyone else is wearing them. Even if I am feeling up to not wearing one myself, the anxiety I feel being in a shop is still too great. So I don’t go at all now. I don’t go anywhere.

189683 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to CGL, 5, #212 of 2158 🔗

CGL you are close to Two-Six I think? Maybe meet up and team up? I too was really anxious but now think nothing of it. I have the answers ready if confronted but had no issues at all.

189895 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to CGL, 10, #213 of 2158 🔗

You don’t need to be “medically exempt”. If wearing a mask causes you distress you can simply declare yourself exempt.

190109 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to CGL, #214 of 2158 🔗

CGL – see LaworFiction website – Low Mood.
or a German Doctor (Griese, I think, who says lack of oxygen will cause early dementia).
You are medically exempt.

191401 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to James Bertram, #215 of 2158 🔗

Boris must have seriously lacked oxygen at some stage.

190973 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to CGL, 1, #216 of 2158 🔗

With the effects you describe, surely you are exempt. Remember, no one can demand that you disclose your medical condition.

190971 ▶▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Barney McGrew, #217 of 2158 🔗

Carry the government list of exemptions.

190970 ▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to annie, #218 of 2158 🔗

Leaflet the ignorant with list of exemptions.

189606 ▶▶ annie, replying to Mark Tinker, 2, #219 of 2158 🔗

If they choose to nappy themselves and I don’t, most certainly I want to stay away from them and vice versa!

189636 ▶▶ RyanM, replying to Mark Tinker, 7, #220 of 2158 🔗

Yeah, I get what they’re trying to do, but I strongly dislike the red band green band thing.

189767 ▶▶▶ Cbird, replying to RyanM, 3, #221 of 2158 🔗

Agree. Having looked at their website I can’t really see how red/green band is any better than the status quo

189747 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Mark Tinker, 2, #222 of 2158 🔗

It’s really that simple. When I was in Japan, pre SARS, I don’t remember seeing anyone with face masks. I think this idea that it’s a cultural thing there is a little bit of BS. It seems that since that time there’s been an increase in people wearing them, but not everyone.

189853 ▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to PoshPanic, 4, #223 of 2158 🔗

I’ve never really understood this either. There seems to be a misconception that everyone in East Asia was walking around in face masks prior to COVID. Sure, there were more of them in some parts than you would have seen in Europe, but I wouldn’t even have said it was a majority. I often wonder if people who believe this misconception have been to Asia.

190009 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 7, #224 of 2158 🔗

I keep hearing that everybody in Asia wears face masks all the time and they have done for a long time. Obviously it’s bollocks but almost everybody thinks this. It’s racism and lazy cultural stereotyping at work and it’s being pushed hard by the usual suspects.

190327 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Two-Six, #225 of 2158 🔗

Absolutely.

190464 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Two-Six, #226 of 2158 🔗

Agree that assumption isn’t true. OK there’s a minority who wear them in Japan but its nothing to do with health and everything to do with the fact that they possibly have certain mental health issues, something that’s not lost on psychologists and psychiatrists.

190626 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Two-Six, #227 of 2158 🔗

You really must ring up the journalist Tor Ching Li in Tokyo who wrote this article and tell him he is hallucinating.:
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/mask-appeal
It looks like they must have spent a lot of time faking up pictures as well!!

Note: I am not saying masks work to prevent virus transmission.
The evidence is fairly conclusive that at best they do nothing and at worst they increase viral load.
Otherwise Japan would not have a higher seasonal flu incidence than the USA or Europe:
https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/influenza-pneumonia/by-country/

191009 ▶▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Two-Six, #228 of 2158 🔗

I seem to remember them being worn in London during pea-soupers and they probably helped a little with the particulate matter.

189844 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Mark Tinker, 2, #229 of 2158 🔗

The bands were mentioned on here before and I looked at the website and wrote a scathing comment yo the owner comparing them to yellow stars. He wrote back explaining, and I wanted to reply, once I calmed down. Haven’t replied yet. I still think they are stupid. They are rubber wrist bands. With winter coming up, and people wearing coats and gloves, how are you supposed to see them? How many people will be aware what they stand for?

190123 ▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to Silke David, #230 of 2158 🔗

Perhaps the Zealots and Marshals could wear Red and Black armbands – then we will know who to avoid.

189913 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to Mark Tinker, 6, #231 of 2158 🔗

I agree that there’s no need for green bands but by suggesting that the shielders wear masks aren’t we acknowledging that they work?! I honestly believe they cause more harm than good.

I admit to not really giving it much thought before March but the shielding population already live with their situation. We know we shouldn’t expose newborns to too much before they’ve been vaccinated, we know we should stay away from the elderly if we have cold/flu. We know we should cover our mouths if we cough/sneeze and that we should wash our hands! We know we’re at higher risk of premature death if we’re obese and that type II diabetes etc aren’t good for us. People with hiv know to try to avoid co-infections. This is nothing new! I do feel really sad for people with cancer/transplants etc but covid is not the first time their Dr will have told them that they need to shield is it? Surely they and their families were already shielding to an extent all the time against flu and the myriad of other viruses/bacteria that could kill them?
The ones that are confusing it are the Covidians who have become paralysed by fear to be able to sensibly assess the risks to them. They’re the ones who need the red bands.

191395 ▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to Mark Tinker, #232 of 2158 🔗

I can’t wear a mask (not that I want to) I don’t believe in lockdowns , but I do mostly distance and limit where I go to. I believe we should all choose for ourselves, so I’d put myself in an “Amber” category!

191400 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheshirecatslave, #233 of 2158 🔗

That’s your choice and it’s absolutely fine.
Don’t forget to keep your grin with you!

189601 Michael, 1, #234 of 2158 🔗

Didn’t see this comment piece from Sherelle Jacobs referenced in the blog, but well worth a read

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/10/15/lockdown-sceptics-world-must-unite-new-manifesto/

189611 John Ballard, replying to John Ballard, 3, #235 of 2158 🔗

Great feature today, why can’t the maniacs ruining the country read this to get some perspective? You would think the senior members of the tories would realise they have shot the next election and do something to stop the buffoon and hapless.

189676 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to John Ballard, 1, #236 of 2158 🔗

The way things are panning out there won’t be any more elections.

189613 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 13, #237 of 2158 🔗

Lockdown every school holiday until the virus has disappeared, I’ve got a better idea:STAND ON YOUR HEAD FOR 30 MINUTES EVERY OTHER THURSDAY

189802 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Fingerache Philip., #238 of 2158 🔗

Haha. I always call it the ‘rain dance’ measures.

190011 ▶▶ microdave, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #239 of 2158 🔗

I’ve got a better idea:STAND ON YOUR HEAD FOR 30 MINUTES EVERY OTHER THURSDAY

I assume you made that comment in jest, but I honestly believe the majority of the population would do it, if Twat Hancock announced it as necessary to “Keep the Virus under control”…

189618 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 18, #241 of 2158 🔗

I was listening to a bit of Boris Johnson’s conference speech – the section on not going back to normal -and it struck me that the ‘agenda’ is in plain sight. When did we, as a society, decide not to return to normal? How is this an ’emergency powers’ kind of decision? The arrogance of the government is astounding! We have become so used to them telling us what do in the ’emergency’ that we are mute when they unilaterally decree the entire future direction of our society and economy.

This is in the open, now. By interpreting the virus and lockdowns in a positive, not neutral, light (as Boris was undoubtedly doing with evangelical zeal), this should surely cast doubt on the government’s entire strategy. They are not just getting us through this emergency, but have other motives, now out in the open. Why is parliament putting up with it? (A rhetorical question…)

189624 ▶▶ Jo, replying to Barney McGrew, #242 of 2158 🔗

No, we didn’t. But it looks as if the WEF did, many years ago.

189626 ▶▶ JudgeMental, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #243 of 2158 🔗

This is part of his conference speech:

But after all we have been through it isn’t enough just to go back to normal. We have lost too much. We have mourned too many.

We have been through too much frustration and hardship just to settle for the status quo ante – to think that life can go on as it was before the plague; and it will not. Because history teaches us that events of this magnitude – wars, famines, plagues; events that affect the vast bulk of humanity, as this virus has – they do not just come and go.

They are more often than not the trigger for an acceleration of social and economic change, because we human beings will not simply content ourselves with a repair job.

We see these moments as the time to learn and to improve on the world that went before.

That is why this government will build back better.

189629 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to JudgeMental, 10, #244 of 2158 🔗

Yes, a masterclass in non sequitur and false logic.

189675 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #245 of 2158 🔗

Priti Patel announced this was the New Normal back in March.

189619 Stuart, replying to Stuart, 8, #246 of 2158 🔗

With twenty-five million GP appointments not having taken place this year, according to the Telegraph, we must spare a thought for the poor dears locked in their fortress surgeries, assiduously Zooming and WhatsApping their surviving patients.

A substantial pay rise would appear to be in order, from the Government Trough.

189633 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Stuart, 22, #247 of 2158 🔗

The cowardice and duplicity of the GP’s ‘s has been staggering

We now know that they never did give a shit about patients

189729 ▶▶▶ Stephanos, replying to Cecil B, #248 of 2158 🔗

I think this varies considerably from one part of the country to another. Here, in Buckingham, we do not seem to have had any problems; well that is my strong impression. I do know that the situation is much worse elsewhere. Why this is I have no idea.

189643 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Stuart, 4, #249 of 2158 🔗

Please don’t tar all of my GP colleagues with the same brush. In the practices where I’m working they are seeing patients face to face. Also GP practice salaries are not paid from government, nurses working there are not on NHS salary scales.

189707 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to p02099003, #250 of 2158 🔗

Then if you are doing that I apologise to you.

Unfortunately you are in a minority

189621 l835, replying to l835, 3, #251 of 2158 🔗

Tip for the day. Get a haircut while you still can…

189630 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to l835, 6, #252 of 2158 🔗

Or buy some hair clippers

189667 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to l835, 2, #253 of 2158 🔗

Bought haircutting scissors over at Amazon and have been doing my own since.

Will never set foot in a hairdresser again.

189674 ▶▶▶ l835, replying to Bart Simpson, #254 of 2158 🔗

Think a buzz cut makes my ears stick out too much!!

189815 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to l835, 1, #255 of 2158 🔗

I look like a female Moe Howard but I don’t care anymore. I don’t want to legitimise this insanity so apologies to the hairdressers who will and have gone bust.

190131 ▶▶▶ Locked down and out, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #256 of 2158 🔗

Me too. Great investment.

189673 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to l835, #257 of 2158 🔗

Good point. I’ll better give her a ring today!

189867 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to l835, 3, #258 of 2158 🔗

This is a problem for me as I haven’t been since mandatory muzzles were introduced for customers. Though I don’t wear a mask anywhere else, I’m not comfortable with sitting in a barbers with a load of mask-zealots glaring at me. I’m toying with the idea of just shaving it all off as there’s not a great deal of incentive to worry about how I look at the moment.

190478 ▶▶▶ Doodle, replying to Chicot, 4, #259 of 2158 🔗

I haven’t had a hair cut since Feb and it’s now shoulder length. I’m looking more like Gandalf (sans beard) every day, not bad for a sixty something. My ‘partner’ doesn’t like it but that’s ok, I don’t like her, so it balances out.

189622 Aban, replying to Aban, 2, #260 of 2158 🔗

The most important figure is the number of covid patients in hospital (because more likely to be correct diagnosis) and how quickly this is increasing. The numbers on ventilation and hospital deaths follows the same pattern. The 7 day average. rate was doubling every 7 days around 23 September but started to fall before the new lockdown measures although no doubt this will be presented as evidence of lockdown working. Has fallen consistently since that day and is now out to doubling every 14 days. I don’t understand why no one looks at the simple maths. In March the doubling high point was every 3 days. Totally different gradient.

189634 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Aban, 3, #261 of 2158 🔗

The most important figure is the number of covid patients in hospital (because more likely to be correct diagnosis)

No! You need to see this from yesterday’s LS:
https://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/10/15/#how-many-hospital-cases-are-really-covid

Regarding hospitalisations as a reliable figure ignores, for example, the resumption of the NHS as a health service rather than when it was emptied out in March. If the absolute number of people being treated in hospital doubles, then the absolute number of apparent Covid ‘hospitalisations’ doubles (all else being equal, false positives, etc.), but it does not indicate that the prevalence of the disease has doubled. To do that would require some sort of normalisation of the calculation, not just the absolute number of ‘cases’. But details like this are lost in the mists of confusion.

189647 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Barney McGrew, 15, #262 of 2158 🔗

These Lockdowns are predicated on saving the NHS from being overwhelmed. Yesterday NHS England announced there are 4379 Covid patients in English hospitals. NHS England has a budget of £129 billion & employs over 1 million staff.

If the NHS cannot handle 4379 covid patients without being overwhelmed when it has all that money & all those staff then something is seriously wrong.
They are scaring the public with talk of the NHS being overwhelmed when the evidence is that the NHS is a long way from being overwhelmed and has the resources and staff to deal with far more covid cases, it needs to get organised and try a bit of effective management.
To the credit of the NHS they are now much better at treating Covid disease, people are getting better and being discharged, any talk of admission numbers should be matched by a reference to discharge numbers

189699 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Steve Martindale, 4, #263 of 2158 🔗

Has every one in here forgotten that Delingpole told us lockdown was pencilled in for the end of October.Everything else is manipulation of the figures to suit that agenda.

189798 ▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #264 of 2158 🔗

There were a few dates that were banded about around 2 months ago. One was certainly the 12th October, but most pointed to the mid term break for schools.

It’s scary how this is just dripped out. Definitely looks like stage management over incompetent reactionary policies as infections rise.

189755 ▶▶▶▶ Aban, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #265 of 2158 🔗

That’s why you need to look at numbers in hospital as it takes account of admissions and discharges. Despite what Barney says hospitals are not at full capacity due to social distancing measures. There is an upward trend but the point I was trying to make was that this is not exponential and the rate of rise is falling and has been falling since 23rd Sept, before any new measures were taken. Here are the 7 days averages compared to the previous average as a multiplier of that previous average. i.e. less than 1 means total cases are falling. 2 would mean cases are doubling. 31st March (worst day) 7 day average against week ago = 3.61 (i.e. more than tripling). Falls to 0.74 by 8th July, hovers around 0.77 for rest of July then begins to rise from end of July. Peaks at 1.67 on 19th September then starts to fall again, currently at 1.44.

189863 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Aban, #266 of 2158 🔗

You’re forgetting that patients are now routinely tested for Covid on entry to hospital. Plenty of the “covid patients in hospital” can be people who tested positive but are entirely asymptomatic (or even just a false positive) and who were hospitalized for a completely unrelated condition.

190519 ▶▶▶ Aban, replying to Chicot, 1, #267 of 2158 🔗

But I have also looked at those on a ventilator who clearly are not asymptomatic. Follows a similar profile.

189640 RichT, replying to RichT, 6, #268 of 2158 🔗

The Great Barrrington Declaration has been accused of being Politically motivated.

A quick look over the main signatorys of the John Snow Memorandum and I see a lot of Public Health Professors and members of SAGE.

What is a Public Health Professor ?.

An advert for a Professor in Global Public Health at University of Bath, States the areas of research include but are not restricted to poverty, inequality and health; public health, ethics and social justice; public health and social welfare; the governance and/or financing of global public health; population health and healthcare reforms; social, behavioural, commercial and structural determinants of health and disease; demography, life course and health; public health challenges in complex environments such as conflict or humanitarian settings, global public health policy analysis.

Sounds like a job for a Champagne socialist .

189644 ▶▶ RichT, replying to RichT, 1, #269 of 2158 🔗

I picked one signatory at random. Prof. Rochelle P. Walensky , Chief of the Division of Infectious Diseases, Massachusetts General Hospital, Professor of Medicine, Harvard Medical School, USA. Looking at her Twitter feed, I find a thoroughly devoted member of the church of covid. Have a look yourself. https://twitter.com/rwalensky?lang=en

189787 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to RichT, 3, #270 of 2158 🔗

Trish Greenlaugh and Devri Sidhar also authors. It’s almost worthy of going into the Woke Gobbledegook section. I loved the rebuttals in today’s LS article for everything they’ve said.

I think they’ve now only amplified the GBD even further. Sure, the JSM gives the zealots there stock pro lockdown arguments on a plate, but they are weak. Very weak. And, as reality bites on this document there will be holes a plenty.

I think the authors have essentially signed their own resignation letter. I just can’t see how they get out of the corner they’ve painted themselves into.

190025 ▶▶ microdave, replying to RichT, 1, #271 of 2158 🔗

The areas of research include but are not restricted to:

They missed out Climate Change, which is odd considering it has been blamed for many of the things listed…

189642 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 2, #272 of 2158 🔗

Hypothesis vulnerable people are not being told to shield at home is because someone may have pointed out that to do so could be seen as a Deprivation of Liberty. This could lead to a referral to the courts for every single person in that position.

189650 ▶▶ annie, replying to p02099003, 5, #273 of 2158 🔗

So the original universal incarceration was not a deprivation of liberty? You could have fooled me.

189661 ▶▶▶ steph, replying to annie, 2, #274 of 2158 🔗

I think the point is that it’s not discriminatory if we all have to to it! Easy to get round of course by just giving intelligent adults the facts and some advice and let people isolate if they wish to but we have all been infantilised by the government.

189670 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to annie, #275 of 2158 🔗

Actually it was and I think that there was a statement made recently that it was advice and not mandatory, although it came over as mandatory.

189645 mjr, replying to mjr, 21, #276 of 2158 🔗

just listening to JHB on Talk radio.
In succession she interviewed Stephen Timms (Labour) and Bernard Jenkin (conservative). c7.00 – 7.15
JHB did her usual of quoting stats to support the assertion that covid was currently a minor issue. It was scary how both MPs were metaphorically putting their fingers in their ears and going “Lalalalalala cant hear you. !!!” Timms kept repeating that infections are rising.. Jenkin kept repeating Sage are wonderful

With morons like this on both sides of the house .. we are doooomed dooomed

189649 ▶▶ annie, replying to mjr, 4, #277 of 2158 🔗

No,they just reveal themselves as morons.

189666 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to annie, 2, #278 of 2158 🔗

Only to us and those like us – ‘the others’ won’t ever hear the indomitable JHB

189652 ▶▶ JudgeMental, replying to mjr, 1, #279 of 2158 🔗

Timms came across as a bit simple. They should know by now to at least have a sheet of paper with the numbers written down and not be told them by Julia.
Jenkins, I wouldn’t classify as a moron, he was very calculated.

189656 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to mjr, 7, #280 of 2158 🔗

Yes I was listening as well and sent her a tweet to say well done, the politicians were hollow men, I think they really saw the argument she presented but had calculated that the public were still scared so they had to support the lock-down to ensure they get the votes next time round. Mrs Thatcher would have laid the lot of them flat with her handbag, eaten them for breakfast and with her scientific background led the country back to sanity.

189671 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #281 of 2158 🔗

Oh to have a Margaret Thatcher type politician once again!

189719 ▶▶▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to Bella Donna, 5, #282 of 2158 🔗

I agree and I hated her back in the day as a young trade union man ,but if nothing else she had courage and would never stand for the likes of Boris and Hancock in her cabinet this nonsense wouldn’t of even got off the ground….mind you i probably wouldn’t of agreed with her back then but would now,shows what 40 years experience does for you

189753 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #283 of 2158 🔗

>>>>(they have) calculated that the public were still scared so they (have) to support the lock-down <<<

This is a good analysis.

A three month lock-down, all this mask wearing – the public have invested a strong belief in the virus being a terrifying threat to human existence.

Accepting they could have been misled is too disturbing to contemplate.

189669 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to mjr, #284 of 2158 🔗

‘Politicians’ aren’t necessarily intelligent beings.

189693 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #285 of 2158 🔗

‘Politicians’ aren’t intelligent beings

There fixed it for you

189681 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to mjr, 5, #286 of 2158 🔗

She then had Andrew Bridgen MP on. Just the same. She trotted out all the best stats on IFR, FPR, hospitalisations. To every one he gave an answer starting “Yes, but …”

JHB was reduced to laughing at him at one point, and he sort of laughed back. It was quite telling. He knows it’s all bollocks, but he *has* to go out and defend it.

190169 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Now More Than Ever, 1, #287 of 2158 🔗

Bridgen is the dufus who thinks the Good Friday Agreement means he can get an Irish passport 🙁

189716 ▶▶ nottingham69, replying to mjr, 1, #288 of 2158 🔗

Both those individuals are inept on every subject. Other than Robert Halfen, Jenkin is as obvious a business bought patsy as any Tory MP. Most are bought by big business and they are doing very nicely out of CCP Virus.

189731 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to mjr, 3, #289 of 2158 🔗

Bernard Jenkins anecdote for anyone who cares…

In a local pub years ago and a guy walks in and announces to the pub ” I’m Bernard Jenkins, your local candidate and am here to answer your questions”.
After a brief WTF moment, everyone in the pub carries on talking. He stands at the bar for 10 minutes, without ordering a drink and then after 10 minutes sheepishly leaves.
The pub erupts into laughter.

190277 ▶▶▶ Sceptical Lefty, replying to PoshPanic, #290 of 2158 🔗

But they still voted for him!

189646 TJN, replying to TJN, 20, #291 of 2158 🔗

My first pool swim for 7 months yesterday, as it’s getting too rough for the sea.

Few trivial rules, which don’t matter much (and certainly have no effect on covid spread). Even allowed to do butterfly!

But they do take your temperature with one of those zap things which they point at your forehead. I was 36 oC – so I joked that I needed to warm up. The lady doing it said she was sure it was under-reading, and that she’d had people down at 33 oC. I said did you call an ambulance? She laughed, and said that at 33 oC you’d be dead.

So many people realise by now that this is all bollocks. What will it take for everyone to come out, leaving the whole pile of garbage to collapse?

189648 ▶▶ annie, replying to TJN, 9, #292 of 2158 🔗

Just a bit of time. Maybe quite a bit.
Have patience, have hope, spread the word, denounce the lies, never give in.

189944 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to annie, 2, #293 of 2158 🔗

As Mr Hitchens says, ‘stay angry, stay patient’.

189658 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to TJN, 1, #294 of 2158 🔗

Why bother, just write down random numbers in the normal range.

189949 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to stefarm, 2, #295 of 2158 🔗

Yes, may as well – like if your were actually running a temperature you’d feel like going swimming???

189662 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to TJN, #296 of 2158 🔗

You are lucky that you have a pool open the 3 indoor pools in our area (Torridge Devon) are still closed, just one of the many things that have been knocked on the head by lock-downs. I have been swimming outdoors at Chagford Dartmoor but that pool is now closed for the winter. I think that around the country many pools have failed to re-open, very sad.

189941 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Steve Martindale, #297 of 2158 🔗

Of three pools the TJN family used to use, only one has re-opened so far, and that one isn’t suitable for children.

189663 ▶▶ l835, replying to TJN, 1, #298 of 2158 🔗

Was asked if I’d “scanned in” at a cafe yesterday. Said yes, I hadn’t, no one checked. Everyone happy.

189954 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to l835, 1, #299 of 2158 🔗

Every little bit of rebellion, every bit of subversion, does its work and undermines the whole.

189655 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 132, #300 of 2158 🔗

Wot!!—-no mask?!

‘WHERE’S YOUR MASK?’ said an irate, masked customer to me in Booths supermarket—Ilkley a few days ago. ‘It’s none of your business’ I replied in a calm but forthright manner (whilst mentally wrestling with my ‘fight or flight’ response which had been well and truly triggered.) ‘It IS my business….you might infect me’ he responded as he inched closer with bulging eyes protruding over his black mask (why do black masks always look so much more sinister?). It later struck me that someone who was genuinely frightened of catching something would steer well clear but there’s no rhyme or reason with these fully committed brain washed types.

After seven months of mask non compliance I had mentally rehearsed my response to an ‘assault’ of this nature. ‘If you’re unhappy with my appearance just wait here….please do not move whilst I get the duty manager’. At this, his glaring stare turned to a look of confusion and doubt as he clearly did not anticipate anything like this. And as for me?….up to now, so far so good. My adrenalin had pumped and I longed to either punch him in his ugly face (in the style of Muhammad Ali) or run like hell (with my best imitation of Usain Bolt), but I managed to stick to my mental plan. I contacted the store manager through a nearby assistant and explained the situation to her. Her response was wonderful to behold. I didn’t really get a chance to explain the law, the fines for this kind of discrimination and the duty of care that shops have to ALL their customers because she knew it already. She apologised profusely to me, as did the assistant who I first contacted. ‘Where is he, I’ll go and talk to him’. By this time the masked bandit (as I shall call him) had scarpered from where I left him and was now at the fresh fish counter. ‘He’s over there, that’s him’ I gestured and longed to add ‘make sure you give him a good battering’……….but I didn’t.

Off she went, bent on a mission, and from what I could see gave him a thorough talking to. It was what happened next that surprised and, I must say, delighted me. The masked bandit comes over and says, and these are more or less his exact words, ‘I’m so sorry for my outburst before—I apologise’. And I could see by his eyes that he meant it. ‘I accept your apology but now, perhaps, you’ll be more understanding of other shoppers who might not be wearing masks’. ‘I apologise I’m sorry’ he repeated, and these were his last words as we parted company.

I know from reading this site that masks are one of the biggest bugbears that we sceptics have to deal with. They are an ongoing sign that society has changed beyond all recognition. Seeing the vast majority of people sporting these face coverings, and appearing to us as if we have been taken over by some alien species, is a challenge that none of us would have thought possible just a few months ago.
My experience over the last seven months, in supermarkets and other shops, has led me to the following conclusions. I list them here in the sincere wish that they might help those who find it just as difficult as I do in dealing with this unnatural manifestation of mindless behaviour foisted on us by a criminal government of occupation.

* All large supermarkets are now well aware of the law regarding face masks.

* The last thing they want are scenes and confrontations between customers.

* The law is on your side if you don’t wear a mask and state you are exempt (no further explanation necessary).

* If you are accosted or challenged by other customers stand your ground but control your emotions (even when you feel the blood boiling in your veins!)

* Don’t get drawn into defensive arguments and slinging insults. It may give vent to your feelings at the time but aggressive or frightened people will up the anti.

* Always get a person in authority to intervene. Don’t try to point out the law yourself or try to reason with them…their ears will be deaf to you.

* And if, as in my case, you get an apology…be magnanimous and accept it gracefully, it really will make you feel better.

If you’ve read this far…..thanks, and best of luck to all fellow mask less travellers…..we really are the good guys in all of this.

189660 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Harry hopkins, 50, #301 of 2158 🔗

Thanks for that, Harry. Really appreciate it. I stopped going in shops in July once masks became mandatory, but I still ride the bus every day. I appreciate everything that you and the other folks on this site do by going into shops maskfree and dealing with the blowback.

I suffer from PTSD and will not be able to go into shops until masks are not worn. I was attacked by someone whose face I could not see. Unless I want to suffer continual emotional flashbacks, I have to stay out of shops and minimise the time I spend around masked people. I say this, not because I want sympathy or some such, but because people like you are fighting for the freedom of people like me and everyone else who is appalled by this situation.

Thanks again.

189905 ▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to ConstantBees, 19, #302 of 2158 🔗

Hello Bees—-I’m so sorry to hear of your PTSD. This current situation is the last thing you need and I fully understand how masks are so frightening and unnerving to you. Indeed, I feel this fear myself but I must be one of the lucky ones because I can channel that fear into resistance. Bugger them is what I say and I can tell you that getting that apology in the supermarket was as sweet an outcome as I could have hoped for.
Bullying and aggressive people are the same the world over and given an opportunity, especially when egged on by those in authority (Cressida Dicks!), will seize an opportunity to behave true to type. However, I genuinely feel that these people are in a very small minority and that most who wear masks are complying because it is the easy thing to do. This is evidenced by the very fact that most who exit shops take their masks off post haste.

I do hope that you continue to get encouragement and support from sites like this. Your comment made me really appreciate that the time I spent in writing my post was extremely worthwhile—–thank you!

190346 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Harry hopkins, 11, #303 of 2158 🔗

Cressida Dick should have received a police warning for incitement. Oh wait, she IS the police – that’s the problem.

191165 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Edward, 6, #304 of 2158 🔗

It was Cressida Dick who ordered those crazed baton wielding thugs to beat up peaceful protestors in Trafalgar Square. By rights she should turn herself in, but I’m not banking on her doing the decent thing. After all she’s already gotten away with murder, so a little GBH on her CV won’t matter too much.

189668 ▶▶ l835, replying to Harry hopkins, 13, #305 of 2158 🔗

Great advice. Had prepared my arguments if confronted, but much better to call management. You are right, society has changed, I fear permanently.

189680 ▶▶ Marialta, replying to Harry hopkins, 13, #306 of 2158 🔗

Thanks for the idea of getting the manager. Shopping maskless has become a huge problem for me. Customers give me a wide birth or pull their children away when they see me! Now I know what it feels like being an outcast. Even got some dirty looks (over the masks) in the swimming pool changing room which has soured the whole experience.

191172 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Marialta, 3, #307 of 2158 🔗

Do the crazies swim with their masks on?

189682 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Harry hopkins, 14, #308 of 2158 🔗

I liked this, it is a good strategy to offer to get the manager involved since it unnerves the vigilantes.

I am getting a general impression these days that exemptions are being respected.

189686 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to jhfreedom, 10, #309 of 2158 🔗

I am getting a general impression these days that exemptions are being respected.

This is partly because shops are realising that their footfall has decreased considerably, not to mention that many shops have been shamed on social media and even MSM (ex. Asda) which have forced them to retrain staff to be knowledgeable of exemptions and respect them.

However I would like to think that shop owners and managers are also a decent bunch.

189692 ▶▶▶▶ Marialta, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #310 of 2158 🔗

Do you think we should list the names of those shops that are good on exemptions?

189819 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Marialta, 6, #311 of 2158 🔗

I think its a good idea however we might unwittingly alert the NKVD who might end up harassing them.

190385 ▶▶▶▶▶ Digital Nomad, replying to Marialta, #312 of 2158 🔗

I twice suggested this idea in August to replace the list of shops opening up but it has been studiously ignored by this website

191179 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Digital Nomad, 2, #313 of 2158 🔗

It’s hard to generalise, as it may vary from shop to shop in the same chain.

191177 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Marialta, 1, #314 of 2158 🔗

Never had a problem in the Co-op but I might just be lucky.

189685 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Harry hopkins, 6, #315 of 2158 🔗

Thanks for this. Very helpful and an excellent tip to get the manager involved.

189691 ▶▶ RichT, replying to Harry hopkins, 33, #316 of 2158 🔗

My partner witnessed a customer being harassed at a well known supplier of groceries, last night. Unfortunately it was by a member of staff, they asked the person why they had no mask, he answered he was exempt and had asthma. She then asked him where his lanyard was, he said he did not have one. The staff member then said that he really should have a lanyard. My partner questioned the member of staff as to why they were harassing this person. The member of staff replied that they really did not want to and could not care less, but had been told by mangement to challenge anyone with no mask.

I have not named the supplier of groceries, as I work there. I am most upset by this change of direction as I am exempt myself. I will find out where this order came from and present them with the disability discrimination act, reminding them they have no authority to ask people the reason why they are not wearing a mask.

189725 ▶▶ Danny, replying to Harry hopkins, 11, #317 of 2158 🔗

Well done for keeping your cool. This kind of abuse happens almost daily for me now. Never shop staff, it is the vigilante customers who just feel unable to let me pass. Sometimes I try the “no thanks” response, once or twice I have ripped into them which I know gets me nowhere but is impossible to avoid at times. But I really like your idea of batting it away to the shop in terms of responsibility, as it completely undermines their vigilante authority.

189971 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Harry hopkins, 9, #318 of 2158 🔗

Well done you. As well as Fight or Flight, the other thing that can happen is Freeze. You did none of them. Several stars to you.

190071 ▶▶ John Galt, replying to Harry hopkins, 7, #319 of 2158 🔗

That’s genius. What are these people most cowed by? Authority. Very clever indeed.

I haven’t had any issues at all yet, but shall definitely use this method if needed.

190198 ▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to John Galt, 4, #320 of 2158 🔗

I think you have a good point about authority. During my chat with the manager, I did point out that seeing as the ‘masked bandit’ was effectively guilty of ‘assault and harassment’ she could ask him to leave the store if he didn’t respond appropriately. Obviously I wasn’t party to her conversation with him but he did apologise PDQ after she left him. Very profusely I must say.

190110 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Harry hopkins, 6, #321 of 2158 🔗

Booths have a sign outside, at least the one near me, basically saying to mind your own business in a polite way.

190116 ▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Cicatriz, 7, #322 of 2158 🔗

The manager did mention that to me during her apology. I did say, in a nice way, that my branch of Sainsburys put out a tannoy announcement every so often asking customers to be tolerant of each other and that this perhaps was the ‘gold standard’.

190338 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Harry hopkins, 4, #323 of 2158 🔗

Great account. I haven’t had any confrontations but I carry around a copy of the Law or Fiction material as a prompt sheet in case I need it. Your point about getting a person in authority to intervene is a good one which I’ll bear in mind as my first inclination would probably have been to reason with the hostile customer.

190486 ▶▶▶ Felice, replying to Edward, 5, #324 of 2158 🔗

Agree with you. Appealing to higher authorities is the way to go.

A day or so back, someone posted a terrible account of being harassed by 4 train police. I’m wondering if it would be better in such instances to take the initiative, and go straight to the train guard yourself, rather than waiting for the law to come to you.

It’s people like Harry who are so helpful in providing good strategies to cope with sudden unpleasant circumstances. Thanks Harry.

191028 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Harry hopkins, 5, #325 of 2158 🔗

Great idea to involve the manager!

I saw your post just before leaving for my weekly shop at Sainsbury’s and I was all fired up to try it out.

Unfortunately, as per usual, nobody said a word about my bare face and once again my Everyone Dies t-shirt has failed to stir a response. I’m starting to wonder if the t-shirt is scaring them off.

191071 ▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Mabel Cow, 2, #326 of 2158 🔗

Whatever works for you Mabel!—don’t knock it.

191150 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #327 of 2158 🔗

Never worn a mask in shops as yet and am still waiting for the moment when a Covid true believer makes their move. I shall behave myself as you advise when that moment comes, no doubt it will. I’m kind of looking forward to it, would you believe.

191198 ▶▶▶ Kristian Short, replying to Rowan, 4, #328 of 2158 🔗

Had my moment last week in M and S.
-Where’s your mask?
-I have an exemption
-What exemption?
-That’s between me and my GP
– Don’t believe you. You’re one of them deniers yeah. I’m telling the manager.
-Fine.

I raised the issue later at checkout. Was warmly informed the manager was au fait with exemptions.

Next time I will get the manager. That’s a great move, thanks for sharing the advice.

191205 ▶▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Kristian Short, 3, #329 of 2158 🔗

‘You’re one of them deniers’ – LOL. I haven’t had that in person, but have been called that on social media for politely querying Covid hysteria. ‘One of THEM’.

191413 ▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #330 of 2158 🔗

Good for you.

189664 THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 2, #331 of 2158 🔗

A suggestion…I’d love to share Mike’s piece on Sage with my mates who are still lockdown zealots, but the whole layout ‘Lockdown Sceptics’ plastered across the top is just a massive turn off for them – they write it off out of hand. So all the hard work you’ve done compiling this excellent document (and many more) is really lost.

Can they not be presented on another, less clandestine website ‘CovidScience.org’ or something, just so they’ll read it!

In other news, our halloween special will be out this weekend.

https://therealnormalpodcast.buzzsprout.com/

189665 Bella Donna, 9, #333 of 2158 🔗

Your top article says it all really. Boris is an idiot but I think Dominic Cummings has more to do with it than we think, and Boris is such a lazy slob he’ll pass the decision making to anyone else rather than do his own reseach. He’s an empty shell.

189679 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 3, #334 of 2158 🔗

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-54562795 – cue “Thank you Nicola for making us even safer”. Bit worrying about “There has been one significant easing of the rule on face coverings, however.The first minister said couples would no longer have to wear them during wedding or civil partnership ceremonies.” Surely this means that everyone within a five radius will be infected regardless as to whether bride or groom are infectious.

191212 ▶▶ Cranmer, replying to arfurmo, #335 of 2158 🔗

Perhaps the traditional unveiling of the bride could be reversed, and when the officiant says ‘I now pronounce you man and wife’, the husband could ceremonially place a facemask over his bride to appease the gods of Covid.

189689 PompeyJunglist, 3, #336 of 2158 🔗

Share this seminal destruction of SAGE’s madness far and wide. We all have a responsibility to try and shake people out of their Covid Psychosis, articles like Yeadon’s are our tools. We can and shall prevail.

189696 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #337 of 2158 🔗

Ee it’s gettin’ a reet muddle. Tier one, tier two, tier three? and who knows what restrictions apply to which? – and they don’t seemed fixed anyway. Can this hold? I wouldn’t have thought so.

189829 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Ned of the Hills, #338 of 2158 🔗

Aye, lad. Tha never nos what tha’s ignorin’!

189697 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 11, #339 of 2158 🔗

Boris has said that he will shut down Manchester.
I say to Mancunians:”Remember Peterloo”!
Get off your knees and resist.

189726 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Fingerache Philip., 8, #340 of 2158 🔗

They want it!! Most people want ALL of this crap!!

The care home deaths, the restrictions, the masks, the shut-off healthcare system, the lost jobs.

THEY WANT IT ALL

189734 ▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to jhfreedom, 6, #341 of 2158 🔗

Agree! There will be no dissent, no mass protests, no marches, NOTHING!!! The fact that Anti Lockdown protest in London attracts 35000 people or less in a City of 9 millions is a JOKE,DISGRACE , UTTER SHAMBLES!! I tell you if Chelsea play Shrewsbury tomorrow in 1st round of Who gives a FUck Cup it will be 45 000 easy. People will take this lying down and then it will be too late.This country is fucking lost.I can’t be optimistic about this, I just can’t anymore. Every day more shit is served and the VAST majority just eat it..My emotions every single da range from utter despair to complete breakdown.I feel like crying but I’m too angry . THERE IS NO END IN SIGHT!!!

189758 ▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Thomas_E, -1, #342 of 2158 🔗

Equally, this brings me some peace. Hope is stressful. Now I am resigned to carnage until there is a vaccine.

189763 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to jhfreedom, 2, #343 of 2158 🔗

We don’t need a damned vaccine!

189771 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to jhfreedom, #344 of 2158 🔗

The vaccine is only the start

189779 ▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to jhfreedom, 2, #345 of 2158 🔗

It is easier to decide that you know what the future will hold than to live with not knowing. I prefer to live without knowing, rather than choosing an outcome for current peace of mind.

190366 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Thomas_E, 1, #346 of 2158 🔗

I don’t know how the Liverpool gyms thing will develop but I find it encouraging – people whose common interests are threatened are banding together to resist.

191229 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Edward, 1, #347 of 2158 🔗

I think it could be the ‘Rosa Parks’ moment. I am not entirely hopeful, but it is about the one good, decent act of civil disobedience from an ordinary person I have yet seen.

191223 ▶▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Thomas_E, 1, #348 of 2158 🔗

There is no end in sight – until there is one. It may take some time, but the ‘new normal’ has so many systemic problems that I think it cannot last long. A Roman emperor once said that to control people they must have ‘bread and circuses’ (ie, be kept well fed and entertained). But if you think about it, we have already lost the ‘circuses’ because people can’t freely assemble. They will put up with this for months – perhaps even years – but eventually they will crumble. It always happens with dictatorships – as the Latin motto goes: ‘Sic Semper Tyrannis’ – ‘thus always to tyrants’.

189776 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to jhfreedom, 2, #349 of 2158 🔗

Are you trying to discourage people from fighting this? Your message seems to be “we’re outnumbered, give up.”

189800 ▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to ConstantBees, 2, #350 of 2158 🔗

I don’t think we will win a fight to convert people.

The more effective drivers of an end to this are likely to be economic meltdown / inability of the government to borrow more (no sign of that in the gilt market yet) / vaccine.

These will be far more powerful and self-evident than any information campaign we wage.

191233 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to jhfreedom, #351 of 2158 🔗

Yes – and it will then all get brushed under the carpet, like Spain’s ‘pact of forgetting’ after their civil war.

189961 ▶▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to ConstantBees, 2, #352 of 2158 🔗

People go mad collectively ,and become sane individually… maybe?

189741 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Fingerache Philip., 8, #353 of 2158 🔗

There probably never was a majority in the Thirteen Colonies in favour of separating from the British Crown. We need to stay strong and win people to our cause. Full marks to Toby, Simon Dolan et al for keeping the fight going.

189783 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Londo Mollari, 8, #354 of 2158 🔗

As a anti-populist and a socialist,I never thought that I would say that I hope that Donald Trump wins next month, but arguments aside about whether he had CV or not, I think that his attitude of Lockdown scepticism and “just get on with life and the virus will burn itself out to be replaced by other viruses,etc” is the only way to defeat this ( For the majority) global madness.

190669 ▶▶▶▶ Jo, replying to Fingerache Philip., #355 of 2158 🔗

Me too

190069 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Londo Mollari, #356 of 2158 🔗

There probably never was a majority in the Thirteen Colonies in favour of separating from the British Crown.

3% of the population actively fighting was all it took.

We have a different type of struggle to deal with, but I’m certain we’re above the 3% mark.

190200 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Londo Mollari, 1, #357 of 2158 🔗

It was the same in Dublin in 1916 – there was very limited support for the Rising when it happened. However, the question is would the Free State have been established if Easter 1916 had not happened?

189701 arfurmo, 6, #358 of 2158 🔗

In the Telegraph comments to someone flagging up the lead story here ‘Utter nonsense…. as expected from this pseudoscience blog. “The more likely situation is that the susceptible population is now sufficiently depleted (now 28%) and the immune population sufficiently large that there will not be another large, national scale outbreak of COVID-19.”For which there is not a scap of evidence.
Hypothetical, wishful-thinking…..at best.’ So that’s us told

189702 Seeker, replying to Seeker, 1, #359 of 2158 🔗

Do any of you good folk have a covid risk assessment template that is written by someone on our side – i.e. not given over to total irrational covid alarmism? My company has an audit imminent and we need to box-tick to be within the law, but without being slavish to the madness….

189761 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Seeker, 1, #360 of 2158 🔗

https://hectordrummond.com/2020/07/03/sam-case-hit-them-with-a-coshh/

Hector Drummonds site is sceptic and may be worth getting on touch with as well. That articles author will no doubt help.

190471 ▶▶▶ Seeker, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #361 of 2158 🔗

Thanks very much BBRS, Hector’s site looks excellent.

189704 jhfreedom, replying to jhfreedom, 10, #362 of 2158 🔗

Good from the Ganesh in the FT today on the lack of dissent:

https://www.ft.com/content/541f1bc1-7e8d-42e2-8008-b991f9396ed6

I wonder if we (or maybe just me) are missing something here. It is not so much the government crushing us as as our fellow human beings. All those who go silent when we rant about the injustices of all this, probably support it. The polling in the UK and internationally is consistently in favour of all these measures, regardless of how chaotically and inconsistently they are implemented. The government does all this because they are being asked to by the people (and to an extent the press).

There is no mass civil disobedience, no rioting in the streets, no mass non-compliance. Because the vast majority of people STILL WANT THIS, depressing as it is to spell out. They are happy to see the human costs up-front in their faces, the dead in the care homes, the families split apart, the jobs lost, the missed diagnoses, the suicides. All acceptable to them. And it’s not just Britain, it’s nearly everywhere that takes this view.

My stark conclusion is that things will need to get a LOT worse yet for a mass change in attitude to occur, like starvation in the street etc., or we get a vaccine (never mind if it actually works), before we exit this nightmare.

189727 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to jhfreedom, 5, #363 of 2158 🔗

What we are missing is the complete absence of political leadership.

All sorts of measures, probably including the death penalty and the expulsion of Scotland, would command a majority.

Our representatives are elected to debate these measures so that all useful evidence and opinions are aired in order to arrive at a reasonable consensus.

That is not happening. Instead of leading, the government is manipulating public opinion in order to provide cover for the unpopular consequences of Brexit while waiting for governments/leaders in the U.S. and the eu to change so that it can align with the newcomers.

It is unfortunate that this crisis has arrived in the company of an inexperienced UK government wholly orientated around Brexit, a U.S. presidential election where an unholy alliance (Democratic Party/China/WHO) has combined to try to bring down the U.S. President and a weak, divided eu dominated by the electoral angst of Macron.

But the U.S.A. is a business, not a country, so, after 03 Nov the mood will change, facilitated, in 2021 by Brexit and the need for ourselves and the eu to get back to normalised trading conditions.

Reality bites first in the stomach, and the grumblings on both sides of the Atlantic (and Pacific) are already audible

189757 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Tim Bidie, #364 of 2158 🔗

Do you think it important that Trump wins?

189766 ▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #365 of 2158 🔗

Yes, but the election is Biden’s to lose….although he does look like the kind of guy who could lose it……

189809 ▶▶▶▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Tim Bidie, 2, #366 of 2158 🔗

Not so sure about that Trump is well in every marginal state. The MSM polls are nonsense, it will be close. The Biden corruption stories from the NYP have plenty to come and the suppression tactics may backfire.

189754 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to jhfreedom, 2, #367 of 2158 🔗

People still believe the government would not deliberately harm us.

189851 ▶▶ l835, replying to jhfreedom, 2, #368 of 2158 🔗

We NEED a winter lockdown. 4 weeks at least, to bring home the reality of staying in your house while it’s dark and wet outside. No where to go, no friends to see, no jobs. Only then with the masked majority wake up. At the moment it’s all a game, which the government is paying them to play.

190379 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to l835, #369 of 2158 🔗

Unfortunately most of them will be happy enough watching trash on TV and feeding their faces with junk food.

191240 ▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to l835, 1, #370 of 2158 🔗

I think a ‘Covid Secure Christmas’ might prove unpopular, which is why we will probably get a reprieve on Christmas Day (and perhaps Wee Krankie will do one for Hogmanay as well). Then everyone will be happy that ‘Boris saved Christmas’. etc.

189708 helen, #371 of 2158 🔗

Covert Human Intelligence Sources (Criminal Conduct) Bill 2019-21
https://www.facebook.com/cheektoo.chic.7/videos/844445982960882/

189709 Humanity First, replying to Humanity First, 4, #372 of 2158 🔗

Purported anonymous leak from member of Canada’s Liberal Party:

“Phase in secondary lock down restrictions on a rolling basis, starting with major metropolitan areas first and expanding outward. Expected by November 2020.

Rush the acquisition of (or construction of) isolation facilities across every province and territory. Expected by December 2020.

– Daily new cases of COVID-19 will surge beyond capacity of testing, including increases in COVID related deaths following the same growth curves. Expected by end of November 2020.

Complete and total secondary lock down (much stricter than the first and second rolling phase restrictions). Expected by end of December 2020 – early January 2021

Reform and expansion of the unemployment program to be transitioned into the universal basic income program. Expected by Q1 2021.

– Projected COVID-19 mutation and/or co-infection with secondary virus ( referred to as COVID-21 ) leading to a third wave with much higher mortality rate and higher rate of infection. Expected by February 2021.

– Daily new cases of COVID-21 hospitalizations and COVID-19 and COVID-21 related deaths will exceed medical care facilities capacity. Expected Q1 – Q2 2021.

– Enhanced lock down restrictions (referred to as Third Lock Down) will be implemented. Full travel restrictions will be imposed (including inter-province and inter-city). Expected Q2 2021.

Transitioning of individuals into the universal basic income program. Expected mid Q2 2021.

– P rojected supply chain break downs, inventory shortages, large economic instability. Expected late Q2 2021.

Deployment of military personnel into major metropolitan areas as well as all major roadways to establish travel checkpoints. Restrict travel and movement. Provide logistical support to the area. Expected by Q3 2021.

Along with that provided road map the Strategic Planning committee was asked to design an effective way of transitioning Canadians to meet a unprecedented economic endeavor. One that would change the face of Canada and forever alter the lives of Canadians.

What we were told was that in order to offset what was essentially an economic collapse on a international scale, that the federal government was going to offer Canadians a total debt relief.

This is how it works: the federal government will offer to eliminate all personal debts (mortgages, loans, credit cards, etc) which all funding will be provided to Canada by the IMF under what will become known as the World Debt Reset program .

In exchange for acceptance of this total debt forgiveness the individual would forfeit ownership of any and all property and assets forever.

The individual would also have to agree to partake in the COVID-19 and COVID-21 vaccination schedule, which would provide the individual with unrestricted travel and unrestricted living even under a full lock down (through the use of photo identification referred to as Canada’s HealthPass) .”

https://www.nexusnewsfeed.com/article/geopolitics/canadian-control-measures-just-the-tip-of-the-earth-sized-iceberg

189739 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Humanity First, 3, #373 of 2158 🔗

Ties in with school holiday lockdowns and Bill Gates smirk when he talks about the next virus.The scary thing is that this scenario is now plausible

189742 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Humanity First, 5, #374 of 2158 🔗

Problem number 1. I have zero debt.

189768 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #375 of 2158 🔗

I don’t either. Does this mean we should borrow money?

190211 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #376 of 2158 🔗

Same here – I deliberately downsized 2 years ago and own my house outright (also have a significant bank balance).

Why should I be punished for being sensible (having said that, as society has moved into an era of group punishments, I can see what I own being taken away for “the common good”).

189749 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Humanity First, 3, #377 of 2158 🔗

This is War! It seems as well as stockpiling food and medical supplies we need guns!

190055 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bella Donna, #378 of 2158 🔗

Slowly but surely people are working out why the UK and US Bills of Rights (?) were specific about the right to bear arms.

189772 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Humanity First, 1, #379 of 2158 🔗

Took a quick look at their site. I have to say it doesn’t look like a reputable source.

190688 ▶▶▶ Jo, replying to ConstantBees, 1, #380 of 2158 🔗

I would be very very glad to think it is utter rubbish!

189837 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Humanity First, #381 of 2158 🔗

Disnfo warning alert!

189710 JustMe, replying to JustMe, #382 of 2158 🔗

I’m a swabber and will / have visited people at their place of work. I ring them the day before to arrange a convenient time. We are allowed to adjust appointments by + or – one day only. I work 7 days a week and the latest anyone has requested has been 9 p.m.. I have, however, heard of swabbers telling people that they only work until 5:00 (there are no rules about this).

189721 ▶▶ mjr, replying to JustMe, 5, #383 of 2158 🔗

and the fact that your flexible approach is at odds with the experience of the person in the narrative above , and that you also say there is no consistency in approach indicates the total lack of organisation and process in this whole enterprise.

And the most amazing thing is that that person actually volunteered for the schemes and willingly agreed to be tested monthly given the upheaval in the life of his family and associates should a test result in a “positive”.

189713 Dan Clarke, 9, #384 of 2158 🔗

Sir Desmond Swayne made the concise point that Sage as, ‘Scientists’ are asked what they would do to stop Covid spreading, they would answer as scientists, stop people meeting at all. But as the PM, Johnson has the job of considering the impact. Letting people meet at work but not a home, is plain wrong.

189715 alw, replying to alw, 18, #385 of 2158 🔗

Hospitals in London are empty. Talked to a friend who is a consultant at the Royal Free in London, yes that hospital where they have closed the Paediatric A&E, says hospital very quiet. Talked to another friend whose cousin is an A&E doctor, also very quiet, meanwhile one of my nieces who is a private GP says they are picking up cancers, cardio and other serious illnesses missed by NHS GP’s and others. Mega Malfeasance comes to mind.

189744 ▶▶ FlynnQuill, replying to alw, 9, #386 of 2158 🔗

I have a relation who is a nurse at Sunderland General hospital, like a ghost town (his words). Friends at the RVI in Newcastle, very quite. But according to local councils, we are on a knife edge. I’m not sure who is worse., the government or local councils.

189778 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to FlynnQuill, 5, #387 of 2158 🔗

They are all in this together, it was all planned quite some time ago. We are but pawns in this game, disposable ones too! When we were being told the Lockdown was only for a few weeks to save the NHS and the gullible were out banging their pots and pans every week the Agenda had already been planned, I could see back then that Christmas looked like being cancelled as our Christmas Fayre was cancelled in March!! It’s time to burn those masks get your lives back and be prepared to FIGHT!

190056 ▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to alw, 3, #388 of 2158 🔗

A friend of a friend, so this is a third hand account,is a paramedic who reports that they haven’t dealt with a covid case for months. What they do report though, is an increase in attending attempted suicides, suicides, spousal abuse and child neglect. They mentioned that they are busy not because of covid but because GPs have fucked off into the long grass to hide and they find themselves dealing with calls that would normally have been handled by GPs.

190697 ▶▶ Jo, replying to alw, #389 of 2158 🔗

Sounds like a class action claim for Leigh Day solicitors (they took on the case of those young men(?) who were seriously harmed in a drugs trial about 3 years back.

189717 Hampshire Sceptic, replying to Hampshire Sceptic, 10, #390 of 2158 🔗

Sent my MP (Conservative) an email last night protesting at latest lockdowns. He has replied saying he does not believe in further lockdowns yet then goes on to say that in London boroughs should be lockdowned on a borough by borough basis. Sounds he should be appointed as a minister in Wancock’s department with logic like that!

He ends up by saying he will not reply to further e mails from me as they are “personal and unpleasant”. You bet they are as they reflect the anger and despair I feel towards this government. At least he should be in doubt about my feelings. I helped with his campaign last year but have told him I am never voting for him again and hope he loses his seat.

189737 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Hampshire Sceptic, 5, #391 of 2158 🔗

I think all MPs pay should be stopped likewise doctors and nurses hiding behind the Covid bogeyman as an excuse for not doing the job WE pay them to do. I’m afraid my emails to my MP are no longer polite even though she never responds I will continue to email her.

189817 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Bella Donna, 4, #392 of 2158 🔗

You want lockdown ended tomorrow? Furlough MPs today.

190036 ▶▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #393 of 2158 🔗

My MIL waited nearly 4 weeks to get a call from the doctor. She had gone to see a private consultant regarding a hip replacement and they found a heart murmur whilst carrying out tests. They said she would need to be referred to heart specialist and would contact her GP. The outcome of this long awaited phone call, that she would be better going private to see a heart specialist!. I can’t believe what doctors are paid while hiding away, all the while the low paid heroes are the shop workers, carers, taxi/bus drivers, the list is endless.

189792 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Hampshire Sceptic, 5, #394 of 2158 🔗

If he feels that emails from irate constituents are “personal and unpleasant” then what the feck is he doing as an MP? He’s paid to represent you as a constituent and part of the job means having to deal with the rough and the smooth.

Methinks he’s tone deaf and if really seriously believes what he said to you then he has no business sitting in those green benches. Time for him to retrain as something else because he’ll need it when he’s voted out.

189816 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #395 of 2158 🔗

Perhaps he can get a job ‘in cyber’, you know, that grammatically incorrect land of plenty.

189833 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #396 of 2158 🔗

Indeed. See if he likes it.

189818 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #397 of 2158 🔗

Oh, the poor little lamb. I mean, it’s not like we’re paying their wages (and pay rise) or anything, is it. I keep drafting e-mails to my MP and they’re far, far worse than “unpleasant”.

These people have absolutely no fecking idea of what impact their insane policies are having. Not for them the constant worry about how they are going to earn a living or the prospect of having 17 years of hard graft destroyed. Bastards. They deserve everything they are getting.

Perhaps they can all bloody re-train: as human beings.

189832 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 7, #398 of 2158 🔗

Exactly. MPs now are so removed from the concerns of ordinary people that I have every sympathy for a reader many years go who commented in a Guaridan op ed piece that he would rather have the Duke of Devonshire represent him than the current shower that inhabit Parliament now.

They don’t care that they’re destroying people’s lives and why should they? They’re still drawing on full pay, can claim expenses and have a good pension when they leave Parliament so they have no idea how we live.

Hence why I’ve long advocated that MPs’ pay should be slashed to minimum wage, claiming expenses should be banned and no pension as well when they leave. It’s supposed to be public service so there should be little to no compensation.

That will weed out those who are in it only for the money and connections. If they don’t like it, they don’t need to stand as an MP.

189861 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #399 of 2158 🔗

Wasn’t that the C18th position? So only well heeled members of the landed classes could be MPs?

189897 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bruno, 1, #400 of 2158 🔗

It was and remained the default position until the early 20th century. Disraeli was perpetually short of funds and his purchase of his country estate Hughenden was only possible with help from wealthy allies.

However even from the late 18th century there were those already in trade becoming MPs

189908 ▶▶▶ Hampshire Sceptic, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #401 of 2158 🔗

He was a new boy last December. Not yet been made a PPS so I reckon he is not rebelling as he wants to get on the ladder.

189722 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 21, #402 of 2158 🔗

I would guess that right now even with 9 months of fear porn, if given the choice, 90% of the people in this country including the Grannies would rather get back to normal and take the risk to them personally that Covid presents. If that’s the case it would mean that we are trashing society and the economy simply to cater for the fears of the 10% of chin wobblers.

190041 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Achilles, #403 of 2158 🔗

Covid has just been the excuse they’ve used. And very skillfully too. It’s an attempted reset.

189724 AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 11, #404 of 2158 🔗

Thank you Will and Toby for keeping this site going and doing such a brilliant professional job too.

The sage piece reminds me of something an old boss used to often say –

“In god we trust, everyone else needs to bring data”

Not sure if this is original to him but another similar one from Ronald Reagan was ‘

“Trust, but verify”

Hang in there fellow Lockdown Sceptics. The truth will out.

189728 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 2, #405 of 2158 🔗

The truth will out. They need to get a move on before its too late.

189730 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 9, #406 of 2158 🔗

The truth has outed. It’s made no difference, we are post truth now. We were the minute masks were made mandatory.

189735 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 5, #407 of 2158 🔗

“Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition” (allegedly heard at Pearl Harbour).

189848 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 3, #408 of 2158 🔗

Yeah, agreed. A really solid update today, that’s to the point and is a great rebuttal to the nonsense pseudo science.

189732 PaulH, replying to PaulH, 17, #409 of 2158 🔗

As always, the arguments here are good and backed by sound evidence.

Sadly, no one in authority is listening or is even remotely interested in these things. It should be obvious by now that they are set on converting the UK into a branch of the globalist New Order, using the virus as their pretext – aka “the Great Reset”. That is why we keep hearing phrases like “build back better”.

So it all boils down to this question: Do we consent?

189736 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to PaulH, 8, #410 of 2158 🔗

That’s the only question for anyone on a personal level really. Anyone with principles. Those who comply are often just looking for the safety to say no, but it requires those with principles to let them know how this ends.

189746 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to PaulH, 5, #411 of 2158 🔗

I don’t consent, no one would consent if they knew the details of the Great Reset. Prince Charlie, talks about it, does he know, he sounds as if its a wonderful thing.

189756 ▶▶▶ PaulH, replying to Dan Clarke, 6, #412 of 2158 🔗

It will be a wonderful thing for him and his WEF friends.

Already there has been a massive transfer of wealth to the richest few percent..

189765 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to PaulH, 9, #413 of 2158 🔗

Exactly. They want for others that which they wouldn’t want for themselves. Like comprehensive education: alright for us plebs but not for *them*.

I don’t consent to any of this crap.

189811 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kh1485, 7, #414 of 2158 🔗

They want for others that which they wouldn’t want for themselves.

Bang on, KH. Folk who don’t use cafes/cinemas/pubs/public transport etc. etc., and who don’t lose any income, telling the rest of us to do without. Easy.

189838 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 3, #415 of 2158 🔗

Also like the Church of the NHS. What are the odds that this lot go private for their health care as well?

189856 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to PaulH, 5, #416 of 2158 🔗

When does the “Great Reset” start? Is it when all the people calling for it stop flying around the world, share their assets with the poor and then move into smaller housing to reduce their footprint?

189907 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to PaulH, 1, #417 of 2158 🔗

What Alex Jones was saying 15 years ago, I thought he was nuts too. He was right about the Chinese Social Credit nightmare as well.

190287 ▶▶ Mark, replying to PaulH, #418 of 2158 🔗

It should be obvious by now that they are set on converting the UK into a branch of the globalist New Order

No it isn’t (a least, not in the sense that will generally be interpreted in this context) and I wish you would have the basic courtesy to choose an original handle if you are going to post here regularly, rather than duplicating one that was already in regular use weeks before you started posting here.

Yes, there are plenty of people wanting to turn the UK into part of a world culture and government, and those people exploit whatever comes along. But they generally disagree about most of the details, as between the Labour and “Conservative” Party globalist groups, for instance.

Do we consent? Well, by and large “we” have done so, so far. I didn’t consent to the Iraq War, but look what happened. The Prime Minister responsible was put back into office two years later.

189733 D B, replying to D B, 12, #419 of 2158 🔗

“bUt We’Re FoLlOwInG tHe ScIeNcE” – UK Govt.

Their ignorance won’t notice but now the JS Memo and the GB Declaration are out there with polar opposite views there is clearly not one strand of scientific opinion.

Had to deal with my girlfriend being in tears last night, she’s a Canadian national (dual UK/Can citizen) and she’s not been back for 2 years to see her mum and sisters. She has bought her flight back for Christmas, and has to do 2 weeks quarantine there when she gets back and call the govt. dept. every day – she found out that she’ll have to also do 2 weeks when she gets back here, which is just ridiculous as she’ll have been in quarantine for her entire 2 week stay in Canada!

On top of this the poor woman has been furloughed since march and her company has posted record profits this year, she’s had 2 e-mails from the company in that time, and nothing about what is going to happen to her.

She has literally lost the will to go on with this now, lays the blame solely at the government, just another example of them prioritising Covid-19 and their weird flip flopping agenda, over the lives of normal working class people. It’s so sad to see such a formerly bubbly woman have her spirit crushed out of her.

189752 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to D B, 8, #420 of 2158 🔗

Please stop calling them a government. It’s a dictatorship

189762 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Cecil B, 3, #421 of 2158 🔗

Regime or Junta have a better ring

189804 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #422 of 2158 🔗

Especially if you pronounce junta with a hard “ch” for the ‘J’.

189900 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #423 of 2158 🔗

Junta is better, a Regime can be respectably.

189769 ▶▶▶ D B, replying to Cecil B, 2, #424 of 2158 🔗

Unfortunately, I voted for them, so whilst they are democratically elected they’re a government in my eyes. But I get what you’re saying Cecil.

189904 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to D B, 1, #425 of 2158 🔗

My vote was hijacked when they used an Enabling Act to rule by decree.

189906 ▶▶▶▶▶ D B, replying to karenovirus, 2, #426 of 2158 🔗

That’s an excellent point actually!

189740 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 5, #427 of 2158 🔗

BBC main news item

  • Andy Burnham holding the government ‘over a barrel’, says Raab

Oh! the irony. This from the Foreign Secretary

Then again anywhere North of the M25 is a foreign country to the Eton set

If he is not on there already please add Raab to the list

189821 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Cecil B, 3, #428 of 2158 🔗

Being held over a barrel is the sort of thing they actually do in Guantanamo Bay, and Raab’s happy for that to happen to Julian Assange.

189745 mjr, 2, #429 of 2158 🔗

song for the day – in sympathy for our Liverpudlian comrades in double double dodgy lockdown.

From the great Ken Dodd of Knotty Ash on behalf of all scousers
“Tiers” 1965 (outsold the Beatles) an ode to Boris Johnson

Tiers for souvenirs are all you’ve left me
Memories of a love you never meant
I just can’t believe you could forget me
After all those happy hours we spent (together)
Tiers have been my only consolation
But tiers can’t mend a broken heart I must confess
Let’s forgive and forget
Turn our tiers of regret
Once more to tiers of happiness

189748 ConstantBees, replying to ConstantBees, 3, #430 of 2158 🔗
189759 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to ConstantBees, 5, #431 of 2158 🔗

I looked at this article and saw over 1100 comments. Copied the link over here and now there are zero comments. Checked on a different browser. Still zero. Odd, to say the least.

191363 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to ConstantBees, #432 of 2158 🔗

Not so. 1137 comments when closed at 12.15 pm on 15th Oct, still all visible today 16th Oct.

189750 Edna, replying to Edna, 8, #433 of 2158 🔗

What a fabulous piece from Dr. Mike Yeadon! To be shared as much as possible!

189775 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Edna, 4, #434 of 2158 🔗

Is it possible to have the excellent article standalone? Some people literally won’t read anything that comes from certain places

189827 ▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Sarigan, #436 of 2158 🔗

excellent – thanks!

189773 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 12, #437 of 2158 🔗

What’s Burnham up to?

If he thinks this is a terrible disease we need to lockdown for then he should lockdown. Is he holding out for more money? If so how many will die?

I could see his case if he was a sceptic, but he seems fully on-board covtard and just wants more cash

189789 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to steve_w, 4, #438 of 2158 🔗

That’s exactly it, Steve. Your last sentence says it all.

189793 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #439 of 2158 🔗

But then by his own standards, its worth people to die for money.

189799 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to steve_w, 7, #440 of 2158 🔗

Well, he’s also involved in covering up rape gangs in Oldham, so fairly consistent then.

189826 ▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #441 of 2158 🔗

true, and stafford nhs

189889 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #442 of 2158 🔗

Look at Essex. They ASKED to be put into tier 2. Businesses are fuming about it as it would mean restrictions but no financial support.

189951 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Silke David, #443 of 2158 🔗

Except for the council, of course.

189801 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to steve_w, 5, #444 of 2158 🔗

The last sentence is what I think is his motivation – its all about the money.

With the right price people can be bought off. Look at the culture and heritage sectors – have been silent all throughout and with the culture & heritage fund, the state is able to buy their silence further.

189836 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to steve_w, 4, #445 of 2158 🔗

Yes it is all about money and what happens to people do not really matter to them. However, it is quite funny seeing Raab not knowing how to proceed, Raab even said that he is not threatening them. Hopefully a handful of people might get the message that this coming lockdown is nonsense.

189896 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to steve_w, 1, #446 of 2158 🔗

And he wants all of us to share his pain

189781 djaustin, replying to djaustin, #447 of 2158 🔗

Error 1: Assuming that 100% of the population was susceptible to the virus and that no pre-existing immunity existed.

Error 2: The belief that the percentage of the population that has been infected can be determined by surveying what fraction of the population has antibodies.

Mike Yeadon makes the fundamental scientific flaw of stating as fact what should only be a hypothesis. The purpose of science is to construct a hypothesis and test it against data, then see whether there is sufficient information to reject the null hypothesis. The above two “Errors” are the null hypothesis. What are the testable outcomes that these hypotheses produce? – what evidence allows them to be rejected?

I have seen no prospective evidence that pre-existing T cell cross reactivity confers a lower risk of infection. I have seen no evidence that people with confirmed infection have not produced some seropositivity. Multiple hypotheses may lead to the same description of observation, but there must be testable outcomes for future states.

By changing the state of the system – leaving lockdown, opening schools, returning to office-based work, what are the testable predictions of his assertion? How does high immunity square with rising hospital admissions, and as surely as night will follow day, rising deaths in a couple of weeks time? How many deaths does his assertion predict in a month’s time? When will immunity prevent such mortality, if that was the primary reason for the previous decline from April? Is immunity really only of six months duration? How does that short duration compare with the first hypothesis?

There is no point appealing to authority (argumentum ab auctoritate), science is science – every confirmatory trial he ever ran attempted to reject the null hypothesis. And I’m also a thirty year scientist, in the same field with a background in Mathematics, Medicine, Biology and Epidemiology.

189785 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to djaustin, 3, #448 of 2158 🔗

I think Sweden largely disproves the modellers major assertions.

The second wave here is a very slowly (in comparison to March) rising ripple rather than a wave. Probably sweeping up the 20% that lockdown did shield from the first wave. Although the time trajectory of our first wave was very similar to Sweden, so lockdown can only have had a marginal effect.

189813 ▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to steve_w, 1, #449 of 2158 🔗

I am certain that behaviours now, particularly among those most vulnerable in nursing homes, has changed everywhere. Here, hospitalisations have risen since schools returned on a background of reduced contact rates elsewhere. The null hypothesis was that this is tranmitted like other respiratory pathogens and children can spread it. That appears to have some basis in fact. Unlike influenza, they do not however, appear to suffer appreciable morbidity. My favorite science quote:

“If you thought that science was certain – well that’s just an error on your part” Richard Feynman.

189820 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to djaustin, 7, #450 of 2158 🔗

It’s the flu season. Covid isn’t the only illness going about. People are still dying of other diseases, the NHS has been ignoring them since March! The government has lost all credibility since the Covid stats were found to be manipulated and probably still are.

189834 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to djaustin, 3, #451 of 2158 🔗

It’s an excellent point to demand scientific process be followed. I would tweet that to Mike and see what he says. He’s very engaging with people on such scientific fundamentals. Please, tweet him and let us know how he responds.

I am not a scientist but I would caution that we are still just looking at data such as hospitalisations in a bit of a vaccum. If, for example, mortality is currently trending well within normal ranges across the UK, what is this deadly virus doing?

It doesn’t seem to be anything exceptional. Source is Euromomo.

Why are we here? Why the lockdowns and self inflicted catastrophe for what appears to be a normal trend.

189855 ▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 7, #452 of 2158 🔗

no excess deaths across europe
flu deaths 3x higher than covid in the UK
many covids will be false positives
most covid ‘deaths’ are deaths of old age where covid may amongst other things be a contributing factor

its a nothingburger. but the lockdowns will kill millions – especially children in developing countries

189864 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to djaustin, 5, #453 of 2158 🔗

Crank up the PCR cycles you can get any result you want.

190016 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to steve_w, -2, #454 of 2158 🔗

I think Sweden largely disproves the modellers major assertions.

No it doesn’t- not yet. Sweden are a bit behind the rest of Europe. They could still get a second surge. The pause during the summer might just be down to seasonality of the virus.



190052 ▶▶▶▶ Censored Dog, replying to Mayo, 1, #455 of 2158 🔗

”JUST WAIT TWO WEEKS”

190081 ▶▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Censored Dog, 1, #456 of 2158 🔗

Due to latitude differences Sweden is a couple of weeks ahead of the UK in regard to any seasonality.

190234 ▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Mayo, 1, #457 of 2158 🔗

Sweden are light years ahead with their strategy.
A second surge of what?
Covid is virtually indistinguishible from any other coronavirus, or flu or influenza-like illness. PCR is worse than a joke. They will only get a ‘case’ increase if they up their testing, which would be a huge mistake.

190382 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Mayo, 1, #458 of 2158 🔗

You really have a thing for willing Sweden to fail. I’d get help for that obsession, unfortunately, the NHS isn’t providing treatment for anything except COVID at this moment in time.

189812 ▶▶ Pancho the Grey, replying to djaustin, 3, #459 of 2158 🔗

My reading of the article is that he has made a testable hypothesis on the basis of all his assumptions that local outbreaks would occur and that places previously heavily affected would not see a significant second wave. He makes this prediction based on death rates, which give incontrovertible evidence rather than “cases” which is subject to all sorts of uncertainty.
As with any test it takes time to work through, but at the moment it appears to be a lot more accurate than SAGE’s.

189858 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Pancho the Grey, 4, #460 of 2158 🔗

death rates are dodgy too. just because you tested +ve for something it doesn’t mean it killed you. covid deaths are deaths of old age. we dont say granny died of a cold if she passes away at 95 and had a cold. its old age

189874 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to steve_w, 6, #461 of 2158 🔗

Excess total mortality seems the only reliable indicator, it’s down across Europe.

189877 ▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 4, #462 of 2158 🔗

it is the best measure, only complicated by the excess deaths caused by lockdown

190086 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to steve_w, #463 of 2158 🔗

Exactly – and those still to be caused by the spring lockdown – ie undetected cancers and postponed treatment.

189878 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to djaustin, 4, #464 of 2158 🔗

You missed the point about making sure the data is measured with sufficient precision to test your hypothesis.

189881 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to djaustin, 4, #465 of 2158 🔗

Why then are ‘key potential impacts of cross-reactive T cell memory…. already incorporated into epidemiological models based on data of transmission dynamics’?

And have you not read the ‘stream of studies that have documented SARS-CoV-2 reactive T cells in people without exposure to the virus’?

190045 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Tim Bidie, 2, #466 of 2158 🔗

And have you not read the ‘stream of studies that have documented SARS-CoV-2 reactive T cells in people without exposure to the virus’?

But how many people? 5%, 10%, ….. 25% ? I very much doubt this group comprises any more than 10% of the population.

You can’t simply jump on a plausible hypothesis and claim that it means Covid is no longer a problem.

191555 ▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Mayo, #467 of 2158 🔗

The only good data is overall all cause mortality.

That clearly demonstrates that there is no longer any problem, has not been since tens of thousands of the elderly and infirm were kicked out of hospital at 24 hours notice in March.

So I can jump on any hypothesis that I like, but I don’t need to because the confected crisis is a load of old nonsense

190155 ▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #468 of 2158 🔗

I have read the studies. None have provided any context as to what this mean for prevention of a future infection. Nobody has prospectively followed a cohort to see whether those with such T cells have lower rates of infection than those who do not. That is my point. We are testing vaccines to test this assertion, that a vaccine may induce some protective immunity. The sample size for such a study is likely to be large. Wanting something is not the same as proving it, nor predicting the consequences.

A differential rate of return of new hospitalisations and deaths based on previous infection rates is testable. And a valid line of inquiry. How much of a reduction would one ascribe to changes in behaviour as opposed to immunity?

191556 ▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to djaustin, #469 of 2158 🔗

Nobody is dying ‘from’ covid 19: explain…..

190010 ▶▶ Mayo, replying to djaustin, #470 of 2158 🔗

I agree with this and have been trying to make the same point since March.

That said, the rate of infection is not even close to that seen in March so strict lockdowns are overkill at the moment.

Yes- there will be more hospitalisations and probably more deaths but that will also happen with flu & pneumonia over the coming months.

191558 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Mayo, #471 of 2158 🔗

No-one has any idea regarding ‘the rate of infection’ because there is no clear definition of ‘infection’ or ‘case’, no single PCR test, and no agreed cycle threshold to determine ‘infection’

190373 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to djaustin, 1, #472 of 2158 🔗

“How does high immunity square with rising hospital admissions, and as surely as night will follow day, rising deaths in a couple of weeks time?”

Hospital admissions for respiratory conditions rise at this time of year every year. Please advise how you differentiate between these respiratory conditions in an environment of ‘no questions asked if you record COVID19’ and all other respiratory illnesses that society has heretofore not locked down for.

In addition, you need to differentiate between admissions for COVID and admissions for everything else where a PCR test was administered and determined the presence of COVID – please reference how you strip out false positives from the results of the PCR test.

191334 ▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Ewan Duffy, #473 of 2158 🔗

Influenza admissions are diagnosed using PCR as well and counted separately. As is mortality. False postives are less of an issue than people would have you believe. You need the false positive rate in someone admitted demonstrating hypoxia, perhaps a cough, temperature. Not the rate in someone sampled at random.

191562 ▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to djaustin, #474 of 2158 🔗

False positives are a major issue and will remain a major issue while there is no single consistent PCR test, no universally accepted definition of ‘infection’ or ‘case’ and no agreed PCR test cycle threshold.

The only good data is overall all cause mortality and that has been plumb normal since a few weeks after they kicked all those tens of thousands of elderly and infirm patients out of hospital at 24 hours notice.

189782 Fiat, replying to Fiat, 6, #475 of 2158 🔗

Cracks appearing down under:
https://youtu.be/kGBEaYEtiys

189807 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Fiat, 4, #476 of 2158 🔗

“A sledgehammer to kill a swarm of flies” 🙂

189854 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to captainbeefheart, 2, #477 of 2158 🔗

Momma get the hammer there’s a fly on the baby’s head.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SOGwPq_KeQ

189794 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 12, #478 of 2158 🔗

Discussions between central government and local leaders over putting the region [Greater Manchester] into Tier 3 have stalled.

It’s so deadly and so urgent, that they’ve put off doing anything, while they have a chat.

189839 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Sam Vimes, #479 of 2158 🔗

Between a rock and a hard place

189893 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sam Vimes, #480 of 2158 🔗

Burnham’s solution is to have the whole country in tier 3 ie national lockdown 2.

189996 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #481 of 2158 🔗

Yes same in Wales.

Circuit breaker will be implemented October 23rd, just before the half term. Drakeford’s ambassadors have parleyed a week’s break in hostilities with the Covids until then.

190221 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #482 of 2158 🔗

Young kids can’t mix and play with friends at school. And now they can’t see them at half-term.
Totally unconscionable.

189808 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 20, #483 of 2158 🔗

The site is building in footprint.

The public mood is changing, slowly but surely.

All the evidence clearly supports the sceptical perspective.

The force is with us.

Hang in there.

189888 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Tim Bidie, 2, #484 of 2158 🔗

Mental Health practitioner ended up telling me about the Chinese Social Credit thing and how they are imposing it in Cambodia. Not pretty.

Very very Sceptic about Covid and lockdown.

189891 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Tim Bidie, 4, #485 of 2158 🔗

The zealots are really resorting to dirtier tricks by the day. For me, the Wikipedia page on the GBD, is one example of how they are stooping to new lows. I’m sure it will get worse over the next few weeks. Which makes me me think the force is with us.

190463 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to PoshPanic, #486 of 2158 🔗

The State is in a blind panic trying to bolster their evil fair tale. They are looking more and more like the lying fascist scum that they are. Soon everybody will see the emperor naked. Just a few more weeks guys. It’s shit or bust for these fools.

190028 ▶▶ HaylingDave, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #487 of 2158 🔗

Thanks, having a particularly low day today! Sorry to sound needy, but these comments have proven many times a great tonic for me. Hmmm, speaking of “tonic”, is 11:21am too early for one with a smidgen of gin?

191565 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to HaylingDave, #488 of 2158 🔗

The pubs used to open at 1030hrs on market day…..

190322 ▶▶ annie, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #489 of 2158 🔗

Tim,
We have vim.
We will hang in
Until we win.

189814 Bella Donna, 3, #490 of 2158 🔗

I’d take her seriously if she didn’t pose with her knees apart.

189822 cloud6, replying to cloud6, -7, #491 of 2158 🔗

London with a population of over 8 million is hotbed and breeding ground for Covid-19, the virus has legs and that’s lots of them. With cases increasing, London should immediately be put into tier 3 with a lockdown now, this will halt the spread of the virus. No one must visit anyone, This lockdown will continue until we have beaten the virus. Banks, Businesses and Parliament must close.
?

189843 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to cloud6, 1, #492 of 2158 🔗

Who said this?

189846 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Telpin, 2, #493 of 2158 🔗

CCP bot.

189883 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to cloud6, 1, #494 of 2158 🔗

Escaped from the Mails worst boted box

190038 ▶▶▶ cloud6, replying to karenovirus, -1, #495 of 2158 🔗

<::> Seriously, push the button in London, you will soon stop the lunatics running the asylum 🙂

190283 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to cloud6, #496 of 2158 🔗

Push what button? Which lunatics?

190034 ▶▶ stewart, replying to cloud6, 2, #497 of 2158 🔗

The virus has legs?
That’s persuasive.

190040 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to cloud6, #498 of 2158 🔗

Oh do eff off you dozy sock puppet.

190065 ▶▶▶ cloud6, replying to AngloWelshDragon, -1, #499 of 2158 🔗

Ouch, You live in London I presume.

189823 Telpin, replying to Telpin, 10, #500 of 2158 🔗

My mum ( in her eighties and living in South Wales) has gone full Rebecca Riots. Facing a full lockdown from Comrade Drakeford (aka Wales’ version of Stalin) she said to me that even if my brother had to drive along every single backroad between her and London, I and her granddaughter would be coming home for Christmas. As ‘FedUp’ put it yesterday – NOT IN MY NAME’. They should get T shirts printed.

189987 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Telpin, 4, #501 of 2158 🔗

Good for her.

We’re planning the same. Break out of Gulag Cymru (Sektor North-East), infiltrate Hotzone 2 ( Mancunian District) , extract son from his Quarantine Quarters (formerly known as halls of residence), then make the homeward dash to our secret resistance base.

Whether or not I go full-on Rebecca Rioter, I’m not sure yet. It’s a difficult decision. If I get caught wearing female attire, I’ll get extra points on my Social Credit rating for being trans-friendly, but I’ll get points docked for my blackface.

190319 ▶▶ annie, replying to Telpin, #502 of 2158 🔗

Three cheers for your mum. I drink to her. (slurp)

189824 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #503 of 2158 🔗

If you take a position where the most important thing is to “save lives”, how do you shift away from it if any move results, even if slightly, in an increase in death?

189842 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #504 of 2158 🔗

Exactly! Worse than saving lives it’s “none shall die”.

189845 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #505 of 2158 🔗

You look for scapegoats?

It’s never your plan, it’s because they didn’t believe enough. Like was pointed out in the little story of the tribe and their visions

189828 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 35, #506 of 2158 🔗

The photograph of Her Majesty, The Queen, on the front page of the Daily Telegraph, on public duties, continuing her work, without a mask, is what real leadership looks like.

And we get the message, loud and clear.

189840 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Tim Bidie, 8, #507 of 2158 🔗

At Porton Down too where the lockdownistas would probably insist on full Chernobyl (post explosion) kit.

189873 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 2, #508 of 2158 🔗

Getting the antidote to the vaccine.

189860 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Tim Bidie, 8, #509 of 2158 🔗

Caught Lorraine on GMB this morning about this. She immediately played down the no mask thing.

“she’s the queen”

Everyone else…mask up

189872 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 4, #510 of 2158 🔗

If Queenie now wore a mask would all the bank notes, coins and stamps have to be changed, that would be funny.

190048 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Tim Bidie, 5, #511 of 2158 🔗

Having lived through the blitz, I don’t suppose the virus frightens her much.
The problem is that most of that generation, who could authoritatively put all of this into proper perspective, is gone now.

What we have left is a feeble, self indulging, BEDWETTING society.

189830 karenovirus, #512 of 2158 🔗

Does President Trumps voice sound a lot different since he had the Covid?

189835 mattghg, replying to mattghg, 4, #513 of 2158 🔗

“a research-based PhD”

Is there some other kind of PhD?

(Clue: the answer is “no”).

189852 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to mattghg, 3, #514 of 2158 🔗

Thank you for your explanation and handy hint, Matt. It can be very confusing to us, sometimes.
Yours, A. Cabinet-Minister.

189841 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 11, #515 of 2158 🔗

Getting my daily dose of hilarity and frustration from the Daily Wail and seeing who to annoy in the comments I saw this article:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8845533/Coronavirus-Soaring-infections-death-rates-claims-justify-lockdowns.html

Wow, for the MSM it is a pretty hard-hitting condemnation of the official figures.

Even uses the word “censored” on one graph about the 28 day mortality.

Plus words and phrases like “Truth”, “doomsday scenario is off track” and “claim” and “reality” and “more cases due to more testing”

Some good sceptical comments knocking the trolls.

Absolutely shocking for the MSM. What is going on? Worm turned?

189865 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #516 of 2158 🔗

Finally paying attention to their highly informed sceptic commenters.

Some of the worst rated can be funny
“Second wave is all the fault of you thick northerners, first wave too tbh. Make London separate National Lockdown everywhere else NOW!”

Just got to be a wind up

190316 ▶▶ annie, replying to Awkward Git, #517 of 2158 🔗

The Mail publishes quite a lot of sceptical articles. It’s the only paper that does, although the DT has sceptical columnists (alongside those helpful articles telling you how to make a face nappy out of an old sock).

189847 Ross Hendry, 8, #518 of 2158 🔗

Blimey – well said Mike Yeadon. This is possibly the greatest public health scandal ever. SAGE should be disbanded immediately. For my money they are incompetent AND dishonest. They call themselves scientists but they are not interested in truth, only in defending their position.

189849 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 2, #519 of 2158 🔗

My area has just changed colour on the covid tracker intensity map

https://covid.joinzoe.com/data

we are at the giddy heights of 2 per 1000 – probably false positives

189902 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to steve_w, 1, #520 of 2158 🔗

Woo, make sure you wear your mask! Stay Safe!

190133 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Two-Six, 1, #521 of 2158 🔗

I don’t trust masks – too many air gaps. I’m currently experimenting with sellotaping a plastic shopping bag over my he……

190438 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to steve_w, #522 of 2158 🔗

The Rubberbandits have beaten you to it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rubberbandits

But they were like this long before COVID!

189850 stefarm, 14, #523 of 2158 🔗

It’s all a jolly jape ain’t it, all these so called academics and experts spewing out advice, science, graphs, opinions and pontificating.

The wankers have never done a day’s work in their life but they have been waiting for this, their time in the sun, their time to shine to justify their bullshit opinions and knowledge.

Most of them couldn’t find their arse with 2 hands, don’t listen to the people who really know, what’s that a Nobel prize, nah, don’t listen to them, I once won the 50m breaststroke and once nearly done the times crossword.

Fuck off and crawl back into your hole.

What’s that, me, what do I know. I know fuck all mate, but I know when someone is taking the piss out of me.

It’s all pretend. God help us if there is an actual war.

189857 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 2, #524 of 2158 🔗

Has the Simon Dolan injunction ‘struck down’ yesterday made it to any of the newspapers, radio or TV? https://twitter.com/simondolan/status/1316784461380542464

WILL/TOBY I thought it might be in today’s LS. Would appreciate if you could address it tomorrow to give it more coverage.

189986 ▶▶ Dinger, replying to Victoria, 1, #525 of 2158 🔗

Daily Mail

189870 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 3, #526 of 2158 🔗

NEW: Speaker bans the sale of alcohol in Commons bars [from this Saturday]

https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1316839672736292869

189875 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Victoria, 2, #527 of 2158 🔗

Wow. That’ll never be reversed now.

189887 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Victoria, 1, #528 of 2158 🔗

I loved that when I heard it earlier – he’ll sort them out I hope

189871 BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 3, #529 of 2158 🔗

LinkedIn. I log into mine about once every four months and look at the feed of woke professionals all making it in their field in these unprecedented times and new normal. So many posts of people in masks and even some talking about colour coordinating with their ties so the masks can be used as a pocket handkerchief too.

189880 ▶▶ chaos, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #530 of 2158 🔗

When I was a teacher I used to coordinate my watches, ties and socks… cool but poor man’s watches like Seiko and Orient Star and Vostok Europe.. that was before the job became toxic and I quit forever. Do people actually find work from LinkedIn? Is it worthwhile for a jobseeker to use? Never used it.

189976 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to chaos, 3, #531 of 2158 🔗

I’ve had three job offers soliticited through LinkedIn in the past 2 years. Turned them all down but went right up to the offer stage just to feel good about myself.

I’ve been contacted this week through it also, so will be chasing that up.

I neve post anything howvert the big 4 firm I work for has training on how to boost your LinkedIn presence and profile. It’s so sickening. I see people who I know hate their jobs putting up pictures of some generic training event with the caption “Another great session and young minds engaged. #diversity #wecandothis”

Is so vacuous

190102 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #532 of 2158 🔗

I hope that contact goes well for you

189885 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #533 of 2158 🔗

Vomit!!

190098 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #534 of 2158 🔗

Yuki junior manager at Toby Carvery wearing matching lilac mask and waistcoat. 🤮

190135 ▶▶ DRW, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #535 of 2158 🔗

Ugh, the muzzle profile pictures. At least they tell you who to ignore.

190405 ▶▶ Edward, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #536 of 2158 🔗

“Facebook for suits”, somebody once called LinkedIn.

189882 Alci, replying to Alci, 8, #538 of 2158 🔗

This made me giggle (makes a change, these days) at the idea of contacts required from beyond the grave. Tis the season, after all..!

“David Rose is looking for people who have suffered severe ill effects *or even died* as a result of treatment for cancers and other serious illnesses being delayed by Covid…If anyone is willing to talk to him, please contact him direct..”

189898 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Alci, 3, #539 of 2158 🔗

Ha, I’ve never been to a seance

189914 ▶▶ peter, replying to Alci, #540 of 2158 🔗

I find it rather sinister Toby is directing whistle blowers to an Mi5 asset.

189948 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to peter, 1, #541 of 2158 🔗

MI5 are in charge of internal UK crimes.

MI6 do the overseas stuff.

I was on their’s and MI6’s websites researching who to contact other than the Speaker of the House and the local Police to start a treason investigation.

On their websites it even tells you how to contact them securely and anonymously:

https://www.sis.gov.uk/share-information-securely.html

189960 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Alci, 2, #542 of 2158 🔗

I actually know a few people into Spiritualism who can help him there… (my mum-in-law for one).

190310 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #543 of 2158 🔗

Is anybody theeeeeeere?
Cough once for yes, twice for no. If the medium’s temperature rises, quarantine all present including the spirits.
All ghosts must be masked.
Ectoplasm is strictly forbidden.

189892 Richard Pinch, replying to Richard Pinch, -10, #544 of 2158 🔗

I don’t have the time or space for a full discussion of Mike Yeadon’s long post, but I’ld like to pick up on some points. He is sceptical about the role of mathematical modelling, and describes an unfortunate experience he had with a team of modellers in the past. I think his story illustrates quite well how not to do it, and explains why he has the impression he has.

He says

it was my misfortune for a few years, while still a VP of respiratory research and new drug discovery, to have no choice but to work with a group of modellers, who had been brought in by credulous senior management.

Well, that suggests that he wasn’t willing to engage with them, which was perhaps less than ideal for a VP of research. He more-or-less admits that he set them up to fail.

I spent many days with them. I would ask, “How do you know that you’ve included in your model all the important biological processes which bear on the output, the patients’ clinical condition?” No answer.

Well, of course not. That was his job, directly or indirectly. Over those many days, he does not seem to have spent any time trying to explain to that team (which he was supposed to be working with) what the important biological processes were so that they could build a model that reflected them.

“How do you know what to assume is the starting condition for each of what you assert are the key variables?” They couldn’t adequately answer that, either.

I find that rather extraordinary, too, since the obvious answer is: “That’s what we need your people to tell us”.

So I find it odd that Dr Yeadon chooses to criticise mathematical modelling on the basis of an experience where he was obvious not prepared to engage with the process at all.

189901 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #545 of 2158 🔗

I think his experience was tainted due to them being brought in by “credulous senior management”. It’s typical that generalist modellers would be brought in rather than ones who would at least know the field and what questions to ask leading to better collaboration. Managers are known to bring in new configuration and improvement systems (hello there Six Sigma) that are unnecesary and wastes of money. But look good to other managers as ‘doing something”

189925 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to mhcp, -1, #546 of 2158 🔗

Quite so, and my guess is that what we have an account of here is office politics, as seen from one side, rather than anything useful about mathematical modelling.

189940 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #547 of 2158 🔗

But it also riterates the golden rule of modelling which is Garbage In Garbage Out. In fact any IT system holds the same.

So, for me, the important part is to discuss those variables. Maybe MY did indeed provide poorly researched values for those inputs and his model was a poor fit because of that. However we don’t know that.

However in respect of CV-19 the modellers are relying on some very key inputs which most certainly are up for debate. Susceptibility of the population and overall lethality of this virus. We are so rich in data now, surely the null hypothesis of 100% and 1% IFR that Ferguson modelled on is indefensible?

If we focus on just those two inputs, we can make progress. Models can be improved and we don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater

189963 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to BeBopRockSteady, -2, #548 of 2158 🔗

My take on what he wrote is that he left the modellers to build their model in isolation and then criticised them for not incorporating the things he hadn’t given them. But perhaps I’m being unfair.

190000 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #549 of 2158 🔗

Any modeller worth his wage surely wouldn’t proceed without clear sign off on the variables to be used?

190008 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #550 of 2158 🔗

modellers often incorporate the things that are easy and ignore the things that are hard – they subconsciously justify to themselves that the hard things are second order so its ok.

190931 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #551 of 2158 🔗

I don’t think we can really tell for sure what happened in Dr Yeadon’s laboratory, based on what he has written here.

189970 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #552 of 2158 🔗

We are so rich in data now, surely the null hypothesis of 100% and 1% IFR that Ferguson modelled on is indefensible?

Indeed, and I’m not defending it as a prediction based on what we know in mid-October. I would defend it as a Reasonable Worst Case based on what was known in late February.

189998 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Richard Pinch, #553 of 2158 🔗

Obviously you can’t get worse than 100% susceptibility, and so it suprised me that they couldn’t temper that analysis based on any data they had or even previous coronaviruses. In my data job I place that in the extremist camp. It would only really be used to show a full spectrum but hardly realistic. Is MY correct to say they did not include confidence bars?

As for the 1% IFR, sure. I think given the WHO initially came out much higher they probably gave this a little more thought. However even 0.1% one way or the other would have huge ramifications. So the room for error was extremely small. Not an easy position to be in. However, if you recalibrated your IFR calc as things progressed in the UK, and against other data from European nations, the picture would have become more clear. And you could at leatst manage this errors as best as could be expected

190960 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #554 of 2158 🔗

Well, I don’t claim to know what discussions, if any were held on this point. However, simple modelling suggests that the relationship between total cases and initial susceptibility is close to linear, if you assume that the inferred R0 has to be adjusted accordingly. So if a simple model with 100% susceptibility predicts 510,000 deaths, and you assess, say, 100,000 as being the limit you can cope with then you need some reason to believe that there’s 80% pre-existing immunity, or the IFR has been over-estimated by a factor of 5, before you can afford to take the do-nothing route. Would you feel comfortable going to the PMS with that “heroic” level of guess?

191340 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #555 of 2158 🔗

One should not lose sight of the fact that data from China was relatively sparse, and that the virus shared 70% of the genetic code with SARS-COV1 – a virus with established 10% IFR. Even stepping down to 1% is in fact a considerable shift for prediction purposes. IFR has been refined, but a population-weighted mean isn’t far below 1%.

191570 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to djaustin, #556 of 2158 🔗

There is no generally accepted definition of ‘infection’ or ‘case’

There is no single PCR test in general use so no consistency in testing, no accepted PCR test cycle threshold.

The only numbers of any worth are the ONS all cause mortality figures and those have been plumb normal since a few weeks after the NHS kicked tens of thousands of the elderly and infirm out of hospital at 24 hours notice.

That is all anyone needs to know

Unless you are running a country and in need of a good crisis not to let go to waste……

190004 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #557 of 2158 🔗

we would also have needed a reasonable worst case scenario for the effect of a lockdown

191012 ▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to mhcp, 1, #558 of 2158 🔗

The Pharmacometrics group at Pfizer have a long and established track record. Maybe they gave an answer that he didn’t like or agree with. For full disclosure, I know most of them. Modelling is about capturing the essence of the system (physical, engineering, biological), overlaying a degree of parameter uncertainty and then adding statistical insight. You need all three parts. Epidemiological models are no differerent, however the non-linearities lead to exponentially different predictions. One has to make a judgement about the reasonable worst case. With hindsight, this judgement is easier.

191572 ▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to djaustin, #559 of 2158 🔗

If the data on which the assumptions are made is junk, the model is junk.

189917 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Richard Pinch, 13, #560 of 2158 🔗

Yours is a fair comment.

I have been a mathematical modeller for 25 years in a number of different fields – mainly in UK Universities but outside too. I am very aware of their limitations. The modern problem is that modelling is cheap. It costs a postdoc salary and overheads. It is far cheaper than fieldwork which is why its so tempting to do. Modellers often talk of their own models ‘telling us this’ or ‘predicting that’ but they tend not to have the deep knowledge of the subject they are studying to see its limitations. They are often better seen as limited ‘what if tools’.

I read Neil Ferguson’s first paper predicting the 510,000 deaths. It was poor for an undergraduate. I’d have asked a student to go away and a) include error bars and sensitivity analysis b) discuss at length the input assumptions (IFR etc) c) consider the deaths caused by the NPRs suggested (he only suggested nurses might not be able to work if their kids were off school). Certainly we shouldn’t have based an untested and catastrophic policy on it.

I read a paper recently that showed that each covid death lost 10 years of life. The paper was junk. It assumed the any deaths in the particular age/health condition category were the average for that category rather than the least healthy. The input to their ‘model’ was shit as was the ‘output’. But going to GPs and care homes and hospitals to find out the prior health of the covid deaths is hard and expensive, so its not done and ’10 years’ goes into folklore. It’s junk

190097 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to steve_w, 4, #561 of 2158 🔗

The modern problem is that modelling is cheap. It costs a postdoc salary and overheads. It is far cheaper than fieldwork which is why its so tempting to do.

Yes, that goes to the nub of the problem.

I think there’s another one: models are a good way of abrogating responsibility: the decision isn’t mine, it was the model’s. ‘The model told me to do it.’

190092 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Richard Pinch, 3, #562 of 2158 🔗

Thing is, Dr Yeadon’s remarks chime exactly with my own experience (on a smaller scale).

For too many modellers the model is the be-all-and-end-all, the model is reality; they don’t accept the limitations of mathematical representation, and are reluctant to – or even downright refuse – to revisit their findings in the light of empirical evidence. In short, too many of them are divorced from practical reality.

Sorry to the modeller enthusiasts on here. Only my experience, but I reached these conclusions long before I read Dr Yeadon’s remarks.

Nevertheless, Dr Yeadon makes some very grave accusations against SAGE – of competence and even honesty. It is, I think, these points that need addressing. Are these accusations fair or not? I’d read a rebuttal with interest; but I’m struggling to think how it might be constructed.

190213 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to TJN, #563 of 2158 🔗

Dr Yeadon’s remarks chime exactly with my own experience (on a smaller scale).

… and not with mine. So where does that leave us?

190325 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #564 of 2158 🔗

A difference of opinion! And maybe we are both right based on our own experiences. The truth is rarely absolutely black and white.

But rather more important than whether Dr Yeadon is unfairly prejudiced against modellers in general are his specific criticisms of SAGE.

190725 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to TJN, #565 of 2158 🔗

Indeed. And when his opinions on things I do know about are flawed, then. I am at liberty to presume that his opinions on things I don’t know about are flawed too.

191090 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #566 of 2158 🔗

Perhaps a problem with a forum like this is that it isn’t really a suitable platform for such debates – they are ephemeral, and aren’t really suitable for the development of complex points.

I reckon that if you wanted to write a rebuttal of Dr Yeadon’s paper then this site would publish it. I would certainly read it, especially any bits which countered his accusations against SAGE.

I should say I’ve never downvoted you on here, and have always read your posts with interest, even when they’ve been drawn from a different perspective than my own.

191381 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to TJN, #567 of 2158 🔗

It’s tempting, but there are a number of reasons not to. One is Brandolini’s Law. Another is that the situation isn’t symmetrical. Dr Yeadon has a definite proposition to advance, namely that SAGE has got it all wrong, and reliance on mathematical modelling is to blame. I’m not arguing the opposite definite proposition, which would be that SAGE has got it all right, thanks to mathematical modelling. I don’t think it’s as simple as that, and I certainly don’t agree with it. My position would be that SAGE has got some things right; that some of the things that it supposedly got wrong weren’t done by them at all; that modelling has been a useful tool for some things; and a lot of what is said about mathematical modelling in general and SAGE’s use of it in particular simply isn’t true. That’s already a lot more complicated and would require considerably more effort to document. And I would want to document it.

When Dr Yeadon says, for example “No one who had a biology degree and a post-doctoral qualification in immunology. ” is on SAGE, he doesn’t document it (and indeed it’s hard to document a negative). But it took him, presumably, only a minute to write. It sounds good, but it is essentially meaningless. Firstly, it’s hard to know what a “post-doctoral qualification” is supposed to mean here. We don’t have second doctoral degrees (Habilitation) in our system, and the higher doctorate are typically honorary or at least unearned. But more to the point, he doesn’t explain it — it’s an arbitrary combination, presumably crafted to allow him to make the negative. There is a member of SAGE with a first degree in biology and a PhD in immunology who is now a professor of virology. Why is that arbitrarily excluded from his consideration? I say that it is for rhetorical purposes alone: it is intended to suggest something which is not true. Similarly “There were no clinical immunologists”: but there is a clinical physician with a degree in immunology now researching vaccines. So again, why the specification so carefully crafted to make it appear that this person doesn’t count?

Finally, let me allude to the claim “They have rebuffed well-intentioned and, as it turned out, accurate advice from at least three Nobel laureate scientists, all informing them that their modelling was seriously and indeed lethally in error”. I would like to see the evidence for that, because I don’t believe it: it doesn’t sound like the sort of way that Nobel laureates work. But I can’t disprove it, because you can’t prove negative. I believe, but cannot prove, that this is an inaccurate account of something that did happen, but in a way much less congenial to his thesis.

191577 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #568 of 2158 🔗

Have you written to Dr Yeadon?

You can contact him via Linkedin

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/mike-yeadon-3818613

The discussion, on whatever subject matter you propose, would, I’m sure, be published here.

This site welcomes debate…….and, whatever our differences of opinion, my thanks for your many contributions.

191587 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Richard Pinch, #569 of 2158 🔗

I think that’s a very good post, and thank you for taking the time and trouble to write it (I’d never heard of Brandolini’s Law). I particularly appreciate the first paragraph, which perhaps may be summarised as ‘the Devil is not so black as he is painted’, which in my experience is invariably true.

Having said that, I believe that in the UK’s policy response to covid something has gone, very, very wrong. And what I’ve read and heard leads me to believe that SAGE have some very serious questions to answer (as do the politicians, and the media). But we can’t hope to resolve that here – that’s for the extensive enquiry which will doubtless follow.

Your second and third paragraphs. Dr Yeadon is clearly very angry at what he’s seen, and that comes out in his writing. The emotional and emphatic style makes it attractive and even beguiling to the lay reader (as Will Jones indirectly alludes to in this day’s blog), and yet this ought to send a warning signal to a serious reader.

Again having said that, I believe that his pointed questions about SAGE assuming 100% of the population being susceptible to the virus, and their assuming that a very small proportion of the population has thus far been infected by the virus, need answering. These are I think the two key points of his article (rather than his more personal attacks on SAGE, however justified or not they may be). For my part, I can’t see how either of these assumptions are justifiable. Caveat as always – I’m happy to be corrected on this, if anyone wishes to propose counter evidence.

A further thing on modelling. I’m not against modelling as such, just bad modelling, and modelling as a cop-out for other work. I’m going to be working outside a lot today, so will be checking the forecast as it predicts the weather hour-by-hour through the day. In my experience such forecasts can achieve a remarkable precision. And of course they are based largely on modelling – but modelling continually revised  and updated by empirical data and observations: hence why they work.

As I have just written nearby here, I do hope you see this post, as this particular comments section is presumably soon to be abandoned.

191736 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to TJN, 1, #570 of 2158 🔗

Thanks for that. I agree that there is a serious discussion to be had about whether there is pre-existing immunity and if so what and how much — these are crucial questions for formulating a sensible debate bout, for example, the desirability of a herd immunity strategy. But we need to unpick several points, which are conflated by Dr Yeadon.

  1. What was the state of knowledge about the virus in mid-February that would have informed an assessment about pre-existing immunity?
  2. What was the range of possible scientifically credible conclusions from that knowledge at that time?
  3. Did SAGE consider the question explicitly and effectively at that time?
  4. Was the decision they came to a reasonable one given the range of possible conclusions available to them at that time?
  5. Was that assessment in fact correct in the light of eight months subsequent experience?

Dr Yeadon believes two distinct things. (A) since Covid is caused by a Coronavirus, humans must have a considerable degree of pre-existing immunity to it based on their exposure to other coronaviruses; (B) any assessment that differs from (A) is scientifically invalid. He is of course entitled to an opinion on the subject, and that opinion carries weight because he has relevant expertise. But he is not entitled to conclude that any opinion that differs from his is ipso facto invalid — and that for two reasons. Firstly of course it’s rather arrogant, especially since it’s only an opinion, and this bears on the second reason, which is simply that whether humans have pre-existing immunity to SARS-Cov-2 is ultimately a matter of fact, not of opinion, and is capable of being tested scientifically — indeed, an enormous unplanned experiment on the subject is underway right now.

Dr Yeadon effectively retrofits his answers to my five questions from his (A) and (B), rather than from the evidence before us.

192068 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Richard Pinch, #571 of 2158 🔗

I agree with your 5 questions, although I would add a sixth/seventh: to what extent has SAGE revised its assumptions in the light of experience over the last eight months, and how have those revisions reflected the advancements in our knowledge of the disease?

I’d like to explore these 6/7 questions at some time, although it’s probably going to have to wait for another day and another thread (going out shortly, till late afternoon). I say ‘explore’ – I have my own preconceptions, which I admit I can’t prove, but will of course happily listen to other points of view.

Yes, Dr Yeadon’s opinions can come across as being a bit arrogant, and even didactic – a consequence in part of his evident exasperation – yet arrogance doesn’t necessary imply his views are entirely incorrect.

190449 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Richard Pinch, #572 of 2158 🔗

So you accept that if modellers are not provided with sufficient or correct inputs, then their outputs will be garbage.

All I am taking from that is ignore every single model produced by the Establishment as it is not based on real life.

190719 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Ewan Duffy, 1, #573 of 2158 🔗

That is not what I said, and it’s not quite correct. A model can give you qualitative insight into behaviours of complex systems, as I illustrated yesterday with a brief note about “circuit-breakers”. It can also give you indication of how sensitive the output is to errors in the input, and hence give you more or less confidence about the robustness of your outputs when the inputs are less than certain.

191344 ▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Ewan Duffy, #574 of 2158 🔗

Actually that’s not really how modelling works. One formulates a structure and parameters, applies fitting to data and assesses the fit. Then you look to see whether the estimated parameters are reasonable, whether outliers are predictable events, all sorts of diagnostics. Models in biology have worked this way for decades. A failure to describe data with reasonable parameters may inform of something unknown. The debate about the Epidemic models is whether immunity of changes in contacts have driven the decline since April in cases and deaths. The upsurge is challenging to explain based on immunity, behaviour is a more likely explanation (e.g., schools returned just before the uptick). This behaviour is predicted based on known contacts and assumptions about how children spread influenza.

191578 ▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to djaustin, #575 of 2158 🔗

What happens if the data that you are trying to fit the model to is junk…..with the exception of overall all cause mortality; plumb normal?

189894 chaos, replying to chaos, 10, #576 of 2158 🔗

600,000 people per year die in the UK. Prior to 2020 British people thought they were immortal.

When I was a kid, in history class, inbetween staring at Teresa Manguzi’s blossoming boobs, I wondered why people allowed ye olde kings of old to abuse them. Why Germany allowed Hitler’s supposed atrocities (I say supposed because like covid I expect details were rewritten by the victors). Why Stasi ratted on their neighbors. Why the borg ratted on their parents during the Great Cultural Revolution in China Borg land.

Most of the people wearing masks would have given up Anne Frank and informed on their parents. Most would flip those switches in the Stanford prison experiment. And duck witches in the pond.

190088 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to chaos, 5, #577 of 2158 🔗

And snitch neighbours to the Inquisition.

189899 Hill Street Bluez, replying to Hill Street Bluez, 6, #578 of 2158 🔗

First time posting here… an oasis of sanity in a mad world. Don’t agree with the use of derogatory terms such as ‘bedwetters’, ‘zombies’ or ‘sheeple’. Divide and conquer is what this speaks to. Remember the Remain campaign’s attitude to those ‘low information’ folk who backed Brexit? Masks are not muzzles but are what people wear when they’re afraid. Or when they want a quiet life in the belief this too will pass. Not all mask wearers with the programme maybe.
Sadly the madness may not pass but not wearing a mask is symbolic rather than effective. Can’t be bothered going out to the shops? Shopping unlined may save you the hassle. Stay at home and vent your anger online. My guess is this will suit the Internet billionaires who will take your money and the governments glad to see you cowering indoors. Is it not time for peaceful protest and the reclaiming of public space? If not now when?

190019 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Hill Street Bluez, 2, #579 of 2158 🔗

I’ll stop calling them bedwetters and sheeple when they stop calling us granny killers and covidiots.

190168 ▶▶▶ Hill Street Bluez, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 3, #580 of 2158 🔗

We have to be better than that… name calling is for the playground. It ain’t no game. Hearts and minds… rational argument and peaceful persuasion.. somehow

190201 ▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 2, #581 of 2158 🔗

If a person calls you names you have a right to call them back. It shows they are not willing to have reasoned discussion. But labelling a whole group of people with a name probably doesn’t help other than to let off steam. Which, sigh, we all need from time to time.

190080 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Hill Street Bluez, 2, #582 of 2158 🔗

Welcome Hill Street Bluez.
I go live shopping just as much as I used to and don’t care about the strange look since I put down to jealousy.

190306 ▶▶ annie, replying to Hill Street Bluez, #583 of 2158 🔗

When indeed?
Welcome to these pages, HSB.

189903 Richard Pinch, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #584 of 2158 🔗

A second comment on Mike Yeadon’s piece.

It is no use whatever if the modellers are earnest and brilliant if they are not top quality experts in the phenomenon being modelled.

Since that’s obviously never going to happen, it’s an unrealistically high bar. There are exactly as many brilliant mathematicians who are also top quality experts in viral immunity as there are top quality experts in viral immunity who are also brilliant mathematicians. As Dr Yeadon must know from his time in leading scientific research, it is futile to rely on finding all the expertise in multiple subjects that you need in one person. That’s why you assemble, lead and manage teams and get them to work together.

Specifically, successful projects of this nature require modellers with a sufficient working knowledge of the processes being modelled to engage with subject matters experts, and subject matter experts with a sufficient knowledge of modelling to understand what it can and cannot do for them and how to get it to do the things that they want if at all possible. Both parties need to have sufficient common ground to be able to communicate, and sufficient communications skills and intellectual breadth to communicate successfully. It’s a team sport.

Why pretend otherwise?

189919 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Richard Pinch, 3, #585 of 2158 🔗

‘That’s why you assemble, lead and manage teams and get them to work together.’

That is precisely Dr Yeadon’s point:

‘They (SAGE) have rebuffed well-intentioned and, as it turned out, accurate advice from at least three Nobel laureate scientists, all informing them that their modelling was seriously and indeed lethally in error.’

189934 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Tim Bidie, -5, #586 of 2158 🔗

No, that is not the point. Dr Yeadon criticises the modellers for making a certain assumption. If it was left to them to do so, that is a failure in the team-working. The quality of the model is a completely separate issue to the quality of the model-building process.

I didn’t address the Nobel-prize-winners issue at all, but may do so at some point.

190139 ▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #587 of 2158 🔗

To turn down the offer of help from three Nobel laureate scientists is quite clearly a refusal to harness the expertise that the modellers lacked, to build a competent team, exactly the point that Dr Yeadon is making.

190173 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Tim Bidie, #588 of 2158 🔗

To turn down the offer of help from three Nobel laureate scientists is quite clearly a refusal to build a competent team, exactly the point that Dr Yeadon is making

That’s not the point he was making. He said “They have rebuffed well-intentioned and, as it turned out, accurate advice from at least three Nobel laureate scientists, all informing them that their modelling was seriously and indeed lethally in error.” Advice is not the same as an offer of help. (If you fall overboard, my advice to you is to get back on board as soon as possible. Is that an offer of help?)

I think I would like to see evidence of who these three are, what the advice was that they offered, what the response was, and why it was accurate.

190305 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #589 of 2158 🔗

That rather depends on whether the advice is helpful or not…….

If a Nobel laureate offers advice, you would have to have a considerable conceit to consider that advice unhelpful, not to avail yourself of that advice, and not to respectfully request some more helpful advice, often known as help.

To spurn the advice of three Nobel laureates is plain hubris; bigotry.

Dr Yeadon makes any number of points and makes them extremely well.

One of those is that the modellers should have possessed expertise in the field that they were modelling.

You believe that is a tall order……which makes the spurning of advice from Nobel laureates who did possess that expertise, frankly, scandalous.

The government is running away from an independent public inquiry by prolonging this confected crisis unnecessarily….but that day will come.

190714 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Tim Bidie, #590 of 2158 🔗

If a Nobel laureate offers advice, you would have to have a considerable conceit to consider that advice unhelpful,

Oh dear. Because if you’re referring, for example, to Prof. Levitt’s preprint Predicting the Trajectory of Any COVID19 Epidemic From the Best Straight Line then I’m conceited enough to say that the mathematics is erroneous, incorrectly applied and does not fit the data. Which is not helpful.

191175 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Richard Pinch, #591 of 2158 🔗

Your words…….

You know that the data is junk

No internationally accepted definition of ‘infection’

No internationally accepted definition of ‘case’

Various different PCR tests, with no definition of useful cycle thresholds and so on

Modelling is of course fun, but without solid foundations in good data, just that, not to be taken seriously; not even occasionally useful.

191196 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Tim Bidie, #592 of 2158 🔗

I’ve explained elsewhere what the possible benefits of modelling are, even when there are uncertainties in the data. Of course I’m not saying that it can always give good answers in the absence of good data — but I am saying that it is sometimes capable of being useful, and if you choose not to accept that, then we’ll just end up going round this loop again.

But I’m surprised that you should hold your simplistic view while at the same time advocating the use of the models of the three Nobel laureates whom Dr Yeadon believes offered their help to SAGE.

191582 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Richard Pinch, #593 of 2158 🔗

I am most certainly not advocating the use of any models regarding this minor common cold coronavirus epidemic that ended several months ago

All models are wrong and none are useful when they use junk data.

I am advocating treating Nobel laureates with respect.

There is good data available: ONS overall all cause mortality:

‘In August 2020, there were 34,750 deaths registered in England, 2,060 deaths fewer than the five-year average (2015 to 2019) for August; in Wales, there were 2,379 deaths registered, 116 deaths fewer the five-year average for August.

The leading cause of death in August 2020 was dementia and Alzheimer’s disease in England (accounting for 10.9% of all deaths) and ischaemic heart disease in Wales (11.0% of all deaths); both leading causes of death were the same in July 2020.

The coronavirus (COVID-19) did not feature in the top ten leading causes of death in August 2020, in England or Wales. In England, COVID-19 was the 24th most common cause of death’

The next such analysis comes out in a week.

I look forward to having another conversation then

190347 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #594 of 2158 🔗

… criticises the modellers for making a certain assumption. If it was left to them [Ferguson] to do so, that is a failure in the team-working.

Maybe try substituting ‘Ferguson’ for ‘them’ in this passage, and we perhaps start to see what has gone wrong.

Ferguson made his own assumptions. SAGE should have at least challenged him on those assumptions. As far as I can tell, they did not – and neither did anyone in government.

(Maybe Ferguson was telling them what he already knew they wanted to hear??)

190708 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to TJN, #595 of 2158 🔗

Ferguson made his own assumptions. SAGE should have at least challenged him on those assumptions. As far as I can tell, they did not

You have evidence for this — especially evidence that contradicts the minutes of SAGE meetings in February?

191068 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #596 of 2158 🔗

Nope, but I’m happy to be corrected on this. As I understood it, Ferguson did indeed make his own assumptions. If you can point me to where SAGE challenged this I will read with interest.

As far as I know, I am unaware of the Ferguson model being seriously challenged within official circles.

191394 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to TJN, #597 of 2158 🔗

Well, you made the assertion, so I think the onus is on you to back it up with evidence rather than on me to provide evidence against it. Indeed, I don’t claim to know, but since SAGE 11 formally adopted the RWC before Ferguson issued Report 9, my guess is that as SAGE meetings discussed the data and developed its consensus position on the parameters of the virus, that Ferguson and his team would have been using those figures to develop their model. But I claim no more than that being a reasonable deduction from the evidence,

191552 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Richard Pinch, #598 of 2158 🔗

Ok, fair enough. But I did caveat my comment:

Ferguson made his own assumptions. SAGE should have at least challenged him on those assumptions. As far as I can tell, they did not – and neither did anyone in government.

My ‘as far as I can tell’ bit has some parallels to your ‘ I claim no more than that being a reasonable deduction from the evidence’.

I am aware of no evidence that SAGE has ever probed properly Ferguson’s modelling, and the manner in which they have continued to support what I believe to be his discredited analysis raises my suspicions further. That is my feeling, and I’m happy to be corrected on it with counter evidence, and I don’t claim it as a truth – hence why I so often caveat my posts with stuff like ‘as far as I can tell’.

This is one for the subsequent enquiry, which will doubtless take months and masses of evidence to reach its conclusions – effort which we can’t hope to replicate here.

Although we sometimes come at things from a different perspective, I do find your comments enlightening and usefully cautionary. Your remarks on how Ferguson should be judged on what he actually wrote concerning projected BSE deaths have led me to think about his work in a different light.

Late as it is in the life-cycle of this comments section, I don’t know whether you’ll see this post or not.

191557 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to TJN, 1, #599 of 2158 🔗

Thanks for that.

189932 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Richard Pinch, 5, #600 of 2158 🔗

While I agree with what you say Richard about it needing to be a ‘team sport’, in the real world of business, from which Dr Yeadon hails (Pfizer) the concept of ‘team sport’ rarely triumphs. When management brings in a set of outsiders, in this case modelers, it is usually with a pre-agreed agenda that seeks to impose a particular set of ideas into a process. The objective is a de facto hostile takeover, and understandably, the incumbent team will be defensive.
Where I disagree with you is in the idea that there can never be a top quality expert modelers who is also a top quality expert in the phenomena being modeled. I can name a few in key sectors, one very close to home (Mr TT), who appear regularly in ultra high value litigation and other commercial settings.

189943 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #601 of 2158 🔗

the idea that there can never be a top quality expert modelers who is also a top quality expert in the phenomena being modeled.

I accept that “never” was over-emphatic. Let me say that such people are so rare and so much in demand that it is unrealistic in any given instance to rely on being able to find them, and unreasonable to criticise others for not having found them.

I meant no disrespect to any of those few people who are capable of working at the top quality expert level in both mathematics and in some quite different discipline.

189999 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #602 of 2158 🔗

They are usually people who have PhDs in statistical techniques/modeling but who have also worked in the industry in question. They are more numerous than you may think, and are available to government departments if they care to look – the emphasis being on ‘if’!

190114 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #603 of 2158 🔗

I don”t disagree with that (and indeed the Institute I have the privilege of working with has many such people as members) but I think that Dr Yeadon was imposing an unrealistically high expectation of what this double expertise would look like — possibly for rhetorical effect.

190359 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #604 of 2158 🔗

Dr Yeadon does indeed like rhetorical effect, which is both a strength and weakness of his writing.

190303 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Richard Pinch, #605 of 2158 🔗

Where are those top-quality people? Advising the government, are they?

190377 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to annie, #606 of 2158 🔗

The ones I know are working in academia, business, industry and government.

189909 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #607 of 2158 🔗

Have received a reply from the butcher. Any suggestions of how I should reply:

Dear

I am always very disappointed to receive feedback from our customers that highlights their perceived poor service within our shops. Happily, it happens very rarely.

I would first point out that XXXXX, including our XXXXX, XXXXXX, has continued to trade throughout the pandemic. We have kept our shops open and we have served our customers to the best of our ability, taking into consideration Government guidelines at all times. We had to resort to trading from the door at one point and, more recently, our Team have been asked to wear face coverings throughout their eight to ten hour shifts. I would point out that this is very uncomfortable for them, but hopefully in the best interest of all. We have taken orders for delivery to vulnerable customers, those isolating, the elderly and many NHS workers. In short, we have done what we can to maintain a service to the local community.

It has been my own role to maintain Team morale, and to encourage the Team at times when heads have dropped a little. Out Team have been stoic in their efforts. They have shown fortitude and resilience at a time when they have had concerns about their own health, and the health of their families. I am very proud of all of the Team, and the general customer response would support my own appreciation of their endeavours.

At some point in mid-July, the Government made it mandatory for customers entering shops to wear face coverings. As you point out in your email, there are exemptions. As retailers we were asked to monitor and implement this measure. At no point has it been suggested that retailers should ‘police’ the situation. As per Government guidelines, we have implemented our own ‘Risk Assessment’ for trading in the present climate and, on inspection from Camden Council, we are doing everything asked of us.

I have discussed your complaint with our XXXX Team. Their account does not greatly differ from yours. I understand that you were asked to wear a face covering and offered a surgical, disposable covering when you made it known that you did not have your own. You then highlighted your exemption. For your information, we choose, as a Company, to serve those customers unable to wear a face covering, at the front door. This is to protect our Team.

It appears that the basis of your complaint is the stance taken by our Team when you showed limited, if any, inclination to show the card that you are supplied with, that explains your exemption. This put our Team in a very difficult position, and compromised our Company Risk Assessment.

Having considered the situation that you highlight, and have chosen to share on social media, I would suggest that it is incumbent on the general public to work with retailers and understand the stresses and guidelines that they are working with. You were simply asked to prove your exemption. While you defend your right not to, I must defend the health and wellbeing of our Team. I have spoken to the lady who spoke to you, and we will take on board your comments. It is always disappointing to lose a valued customer, but commerce is a two way street.

Yours sincerely,

etc, etc…

189916 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #608 of 2158 🔗

Not the point – legally you should not be challenged for proof, or treated differently from any other customer as it is clear discrimination.

189922 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to CGL, 2, #609 of 2158 🔗

Good point. Will add that to my reply.

189968 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to CGL, 3, #610 of 2158 🔗

CGL has it spot on. Everything is in that one sentence.

189931 ▶▶ l835, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #611 of 2158 🔗

Point out that I’m asking you to “prove” your disability, and by serving you at the door, they are seriously breaking the Disability Discrimination Act.

190066 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to l835, 2, #612 of 2158 🔗

Yes, it’s the same as not allowing in a guide dog because the doggie germs.

189935 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #613 of 2158 🔗

well done for taking it up.

Keep your reply very short. Focus on the fact that you only have to say exempt and no card required for them to police (Attach a copy of the no masks government section), then point out that this it is disability discrimination and quote the possible fines. It is shocking that they think they can serve a customer at the door and that it is not discrimination. You won’t be able to change their minds, its made up. Then Vote with your feet – not much more you can do (yes, it is not always easy to replace a particular shop)

189939 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Victoria, 2, #614 of 2158 🔗

Thanks for your advice. My plan is to send them a link to the Law or Fiction site.

I have found an online butcher and they’ve been good. They also hold the royal warrant so if its good enough for Her Majesty then its good enough for me.

190015 ▶▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #615 of 2158 🔗

I can highly recommend Kittows Quality Meats of Cornwall. They deliver nationwide and their homemade pies are awesome!

189956 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #616 of 2158 🔗

You could suggest it will go further if they do not admit it is discrimination. You have it in writing that their policy is to discriminate against exempt individuals. So I would make this clear that it can now be taken to a solicitor.

189965 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 3, #617 of 2158 🔗

Mr Bart suggested forwarding the reply to he Equalities commission and I am also considering bringing Camden council in as well to report them for discrimination

189969 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #618 of 2158 🔗

Only do this if you are willing to go the whole way

189959 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #619 of 2158 🔗

I think it may be discriminatory for them to serve you at the front door as this is a different level of service.

189972 ▶▶ Dinger, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #620 of 2158 🔗

Use the Law or Fiction toolkit and threaten to litigate for discrimination.
https://www.laworfiction.com/2020/07/face-covering-litigation-threats-and-administrative-headache/

190075 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Dinger, 1, #621 of 2158 🔗

Great advice.

Bart, attach the fist few pages of the toolkit to your correspondence. https://www.laworfiction.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Face-Covering-Exemption-Notice-with-Law-Explained-24-July-2020.pdf

190005 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #622 of 2158 🔗

Well nobody is “supplied” with an exemption card. They are available to print out but there is no obligation to carry one and no legal right to demand to see one.

190029 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 3, #623 of 2158 🔗

Exactly. The law does not mention proof of, or explanation of, exemption AT ALL. And the guidance is crystal clear – ‘Don’t’.

190013 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #624 of 2158 🔗

It is clearly DDA discrimination. If a wheelchair user couldn’t get into a shop because the door was to narrow it would be discrimination to insist they had to be served outside.

190188 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #625 of 2158 🔗

Take your custom someplace else.

190210 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #626 of 2158 🔗

If business prefer to serve people with exemptions at the door they should make that clear by a sign in the door.
I had an altercation with my usually very nice newsagent about this, and have not shopped with him since then.
I guess I should have known better, since they have been wearing face coverings since the start.
I do not like the practice of being served at the door, but at least it shows willingness and a sign avoids the need for an argument and people consequently getting upset.
It is not nice for the workers either. As someone who worked in a customer facing environment, I know how draining it is and difficult to stay polite.

190351 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Silke David, #627 of 2158 🔗

That’s a good point. I work in visitor services and agree that it’s draining it is and difficult to stay polite. We had a very popular and busy exhibition last year and that really tested my patience and ability to stay polite to the limit.

190299 ▶▶ annie, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #628 of 2158 🔗

Find a one-way street that goes away from the shop, and continue along it until you find another butcher’s.

190345 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, #629 of 2158 🔗

We have decided to permanently go with the online butcher that we have found – great products and great service.

190460 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #630 of 2158 🔗

“For your information, we choose, as a Company, to serve those customers unable to wear a face covering, at the front door.”

I am not a lawyer, but have they not just admitted disability discrimination?

190473 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Ewan Duffy, #631 of 2158 🔗

Yes they have.

189910 assoc, replying to assoc, 2, #632 of 2158 🔗

I see that the Speaker has closed down the House of Commons bars. Presumably the poor dear MPs will now have to walk over to the House of Lords bars (they probably sell better gin anyway).

189937 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to assoc, 1, #633 of 2158 🔗

ahh interesting bars at the House of Lords still open…..

190182 ▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Victoria, #634 of 2158 🔗

The average Lords day. Walk from posh house to HoL, sign in, pocket allowance, go to bar, drink and chat, go home.

189911 captainbeefheart, replying to captainbeefheart, 4, #635 of 2158 🔗

Dear The UK Police.

Stop being a bunch of fascist, mind controlled gimps and do something useful. See France…

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8843089/Police-search-home-French-health-minister-former-PM-Covid-probe.html

189938 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to captainbeefheart, 2, #636 of 2158 🔗

read further – apparently because police think these politicians did not have more severe restrictions in the beginning

189946 ▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Victoria, 1, #637 of 2158 🔗

<cries/>

189912 percy openshaw, replying to percy openshaw, 7, #638 of 2158 🔗

Can that fatuous idiot from “Countryfile” give any real instances of “discrimination” which are not the fabrications of paranoia?

189942 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to percy openshaw, 4, #639 of 2158 🔗

I don’t think some people realise that you occasionally come across some unfriendly locals in the countryside. Some people for an example seem to take an exception to walkers using public footpaths crossing their land, also some country pubs can be very cliquey (as can urban ones). Like you say much of it is just paranoia.

189947 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to percy openshaw, 4, #640 of 2158 🔗

That is why we have the new Reclaim party that openly challenges these type of idiotic statements.

Unite, don’t divide [Video with Laurence Fox and Calvin Robinson]

https://twitter.com/LozzaFox/status/1314935151789563905

189915 Darryl, replying to Darryl, 6, #641 of 2158 🔗

The Times front page is laugh out loud establishment propaganda today. It manages to both promote the Oxford vaccine and attack Russia at the same time. The story is about how the evil Russians are spreading a rumour about the Oxford vaccine turning people into monkeys – which in itself if true (I doubt it) is laughable in itself and I can’t believe anyone in the world would believe this.

The fact that The Times has dedicated a front page and so much space inside for this story shows how low standards have fallen at UK newspapers. I knew they were planning to go on a pro-vaccine propaganda campaign but surely they could do better than this? https://www.thetimes.co.uk/?region=global

190039 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Darryl, 3, #642 of 2158 🔗

Must be a joke testing if literally any shit will stick. It’s like the Happy Birthday song being exceptionally contagious.

190079 ▶▶ PaulH, replying to Darryl, #643 of 2158 🔗

“evil Russians are spreading a rumour about the Oxford vaccine turning people into monkeys…”

Well maybe that’s why they are getting immunity against injury claims.

I knew there must be some reason for this…

190225 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Darryl, 1, #644 of 2158 🔗

It is comical, for those of us who have observed the shameless propagandising about Russia indulged in by our governments, with general media complicity, over decades now.

It would be nice to think that some of the people here whose eyes have been opened to the dishonesty of outlets like the BBC, Times and Guardian by their coronapanic performance might choose to apply their new-found scepticism to past coverage of international affairs.

It’s entirely understandable that most people are not interested enough in geostrategy to bother questioning such stuff generally, which is why they have mostly gotten away with it.

190554 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Mark, #645 of 2158 🔗

I just wish they spent more time improving this country rather than having their petty geopolitical fights – the only real beneficiaries are the arms industry and military police state.

190298 ▶▶ annie, replying to Darryl, 1, #646 of 2158 🔗

Well, the monkey bit has to be correct, if you assume that they tried the Oxford vaccine on Wancock.

190543 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to annie, #647 of 2158 🔗

I might be interested in the transformative vaccine – probably more fun being a monkey than a human at the moments (as long as your not a lab one).

189918 Richard Pinch, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #648 of 2158 🔗

Yet another comment, if I may on Mike Yeadon’s posting.

First, the Imperial group decided to assume that, since SARS-CoV-2 was a new virus, “the level of prior immunity in the population was essentially zero”. In other words, “100% of the population was initially susceptible to the virus”.

I seriously doubt that they decided that purely on their own initiative, without reference either before or after the event to subject matter experts from SAGE. As the SAGE minutes show, early meetings were devoted to developing a common understanding of what was know about the then novel virus. If those assumptions were made, they were made by subject experts and given to modellers. Dr Yeadon gives as his personal view that this assumption is wrong, and that it was wrong at the time. Well, unless he can demonstrate that it must have been wrong and known to be wrong at that time, then he can only say that he disagreed with SAGE. Is it possible that he attributes this assumption to modellers rather than to his fellow experts because he does not care to admit that there is a difference of opinion among experts, one which modelling and modellers cannot be held accountable for?

I don’t claim to know the Imperial model in detail, but it’s a trivial matter to set pre-existing immunity as a parameter and investigate the dependence of model outputs to changes in that assumption. The initial assumption of zero pre-existing immunity was the correct conservative assumption for planning purposes (Reasonable Worst Case). Of course I’m not denying that these assumptions need to be revisited as data comes in. If that has not been happening, then a vital part of the communication between modeller and domain expert would been left out. That would have been the responsibility of SAGE collectively and its chair specifically — I have no detailed knowledge of whether or how that went of course.

189928 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Richard Pinch, 5, #649 of 2158 🔗

His point is more fundamental:

Application of ‘The Precautionary Principle’ without the necessary accompaniment of a cost/benefit analysis, a point made by the government’s own guidance on the precautionary principle, will end badly.

SAGE should have been aware of government guidance on ‘The Precautionary Principle’ and followed it to the letter in advising the government.

That they did not so do is a very grave dereliction of duty, incompetence, and they should be disbanded forthwith (at the very least).

189952 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Tim Bidie, 2, #650 of 2158 🔗

SAGE should have been aware of government guidance on ‘The Precautionary Principle’

Do you have a reference describing this principle as a compulsory mandate for government planning purposes?

189975 ▶▶▶▶ bucky99, replying to Richard Pinch, 5, #651 of 2158 🔗

Any government spending decision – which this is – should come with a cost/benefit analysis. It’s not their money that they are spending!!

(That they actually do or not is a separate matter)

190030 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Richard Pinch, 4, #652 of 2158 🔗

What can be said immediately is that the ‘precautionary principle’ does not entail shitting your pants every time something looks a bit worrying.

190115 ▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #653 of 2158 🔗

Use of ‘The Precautionary Principle’ is a policy decision.

‘A decision to invoke the precautionary principle to support a proposition is a policy decision’

‘The RPC will expect to see a clear rationale for invoking the principle based on robust evidence of numbers affected, severity and irreversibility of harms.’

‘…..the Green Book states that ‘The recommended approach in situations where expensive precautionary actions have been taken is to monitor continually the situation and to build in specific review points, being prepared to act quickly on the basis of better information’. (Managing Risks to the Public Appraisal Guidance, p. 32) The ILGRA guidance also notes that reviews should ‘ensure that the action taken resulted in what was intended; and check whether decisions previously reached need to be modified to take account of, for example, advances in technology, new knowledge about the risks from research, or any other information which may reduce uncertainty in the nature and likelihoods of potential consequences.’

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/858864/short_guidance_note_-_precautionary_principle.pdf January 2020

We know that the government made the decision to invoke ‘The Precautionary Principle’ because their lawyers cited it in their defence of the ‘Health Protection Regulations 2020’

‘The precautionary principle applies.’

https://static.crowdjustice.com/group_claim_document/20200612_-_Acknowledgment_of_Service_-_SoS_Health__SoS_Education_minus_form.PDF

190703 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Tim Bidie, #654 of 2158 🔗

Thanks for that. But my question was badly posed. The PP, as referred to here, supports the “do something” decision more strongly than the “do nothing” option. It doesn’t apply to the scientific advice, it applies to the stage after that advice is in.

191049 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Richard Pinch, #655 of 2158 🔗

Government policy was to apply ‘The Precautionary Principle’ (PP)

Government guidance is to include a cost benefit analysis in any application of the PP

It was therefore incumbent upon SAGE to provide that cost benefit analysis as part of their assessment. How else could the government come to a balanced decision?

But they did not and that is a serious indictment……

A competent government, of course, would have returned their work to them as incompetent and disbanded SAGE as not fit for purpose.

That will happen. This is a long game.

191183 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, #656 of 2158 🔗

And, in fairness, one person in cabinet, I understand Jesse Norman, asked about any cost benefit analysis……

Someone should have provided it…..if not SAGE, then who?

Cue scrambling for coats, elbows out, and legging it to the nearest exit…….

190468 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Richard Pinch, #657 of 2158 🔗

It is something that should not need to be said. If it does need to be said, the person you are engaging is not the sort of person you should be engaging.

190024 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Richard Pinch, 4, #658 of 2158 🔗

Bottom line (as I’ve commented above about Ferguson’s model), the SAGE advice has been subjected to the ultimate peer review : reality.

And it’s not passed at any stage.The clearest example is, of course, Vallance’s (you know, the guy with the shares) ludicrous ‘exponential growth’ model.

Now an old research hack like myself, using only a graphics capable spreadsheet, diagnosed immediately, with a high degree of probabilty, that the prognosis would turn out to be pure fantasy, that the ‘pandemic’ was in no way ‘unprecedented’ in its overall effect, and that the current course of mortality was entirely in line with the lowest level of what tends to happen during September/ October.

The Abstract of the paper I didn’t write was simple :

“Basic analysis now shows SAGE statements to be utter bollocks, and most policy measures derived from them to be mainly pointless and potentially damaging.”

190162 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to RickH, #659 of 2158 🔗

And it’s not passed at any stage.The clearest example is, of course, Vallance’s (you know, the guy with the shares) ludicrous ‘exponential growth’ model.

It wasn’t really a model, though, was it?

190204 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #660 of 2158 🔗

Any attempt to predict real life events using mathematics can legitimately be described as a model.

190354 ▶▶▶▶▶ BJJ, replying to Mark, #661 of 2158 🔗

I think “model” is too kind a word. It should be substituted with “theory” or “hypothesis”, then the inherent uncertainty would be apparent. When using the word “model” there seems to be a mathematical certainty present

190368 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Mark, #662 of 2158 🔗

Quite so. My question was whether the doubling-every-week graph was an attempt to predict real life events.

190479 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #663 of 2158 🔗

OK, fair point. Though my opinion on that is that it was an attempt to dishonestly have it both ways – to cover themselves against accusations of making an alarmist prediction while knowing full well that it would be reported in effect as prediction – as in fact it was.

190695 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Mark, #664 of 2158 🔗

That is a possible interpretation, yes.

190418 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Richard Pinch, #665 of 2158 🔗

If those assumptions were made, they were made by subject experts and given to modellers. Dr Yeadon gives as his personal view that this assumption is wrong, and that it was wrong at the time.

Richard – we’ve disagreed on this before, but I remain of the opinion that SAGE were wrong to assume 100% susceptibility, and thus support Dr Yeadon here.

At parameters R0 = 2.5 to 3, and infectious for about 5 days, the disease spreads fast, and given that each infected person is infectious before they know they have the disease, it is essentially uncontrollable (without an absolutely draconian lockdown, the likes of which we have not seen).

But by February the disease was out and about, world-wide, and couldn’t be contained. At R0 = 2.8, infectious for 5 days, 100% susceptible, 0.9% IFR, the bodies would have been piling high throughout China long before. But they weren’t. Time therefore to revisit the assumptions. R0 and 5 days had been observed; they were probably close to correct. That leaves IFR and susceptibility. It was clear that those assumptions could not be correct. Even back in February and March.

That SAGE are still – 7 months later – essentially assuming 100% susceptibility (minus the about 7% who have identifiable antibodies) is, frankly, astonishing, and points to its own story.

Incidentally, I was under the impression that Ferguson (i.e. the modeller) made his own assumptions.

190693 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to TJN, #666 of 2158 🔗

Well, while it’s a matter of opinion … but the question is whether SAGE were as justified in their opinion as you or Dr Yeadon is in theirs.

191064 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #667 of 2158 🔗

My problem with SAGE is that their stance was not a reasonable interpretation of the known facts at the time – as I’ve tried to explain in my post above. Experts should make a reasonable interpretation of facts, rather than just forward an opinion.

Subjective stuff like a personal experience of previous modelling exercises leads to opinion, but a reasonable interpretation of facts is another matter. This goes to the heart of my problem with SAGE.

189920 Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #668 of 2158 🔗

The cult of covid, a really interesting blog post about why people are unable to see the giant fraud going on.

https://consentfactory.org/2020/10/13/the-covidian-cult/

189923 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Basics, 2, #669 of 2158 🔗

Interesting article – it was also featured on the Off Guardian website. Illustrates the scale of the problem we are up against.

189957 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Darryl, 3, #670 of 2158 🔗

It also shows the fragility of their situation.

189924 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 13, #671 of 2158 🔗

Yeadon states:

SAGE’s estimate of lethality has not been revised downward since about February.

That’s just mindblowing! They’ve had 8 months of empirical evidence and not revised it once?
No wonder we’re between a rock and a hard place!

189945 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #672 of 2158 🔗

It’s because they are still following Ferguson’s model, and Doris & Co have not thought to challenge it because they remain fully invested in it for reasons we can only speculate.

189927 Basics, replying to Basics, 4, #673 of 2158 🔗

An international panel of professionals are starting a lawsuit.

https://twitter.com/EatlovePray11/status/1316778274983419904?s=20

I don’t know more to include in comment the link has a short clip of the panel speaking. Excellent points spoken.

189930 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Basics, 1, #674 of 2158 🔗

Saw this yesterday – wanted to post it on fb but not as a Twitter feed link. Not sure how to extract it.

189953 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to CGL, 2, #675 of 2158 🔗

No idea myself. – pssibly working to identify the group then search on bitchute etc for different clip.

189966 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to CGL, 3, #676 of 2158 🔗

Post the twitter link – even ion you do not have a twitter account, it is very easy to watch if you just click on the link and then click on the video.

Doctors and nurses in Netherlands taking government to court. Even newspapers articles now questioning validity of PCR test.

189974 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Victoria, 1, #677 of 2158 🔗

Yes – I’ve watched it – it ought to be dynamite. When I post a Twitter link it’s just a very boring grey box that doesn’t draw the eye, and I fear people on my friends list really won’t bother to check it out at this point. Thought it might be more in their face with a proper picture and the play button right in front of them. I will post it anyway if I can’t work it out. The tag line will be ‘Let’s Go Dutch’

189980 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to CGL, 2, #678 of 2158 🔗

Fwiw, I always try to post a written description or sample text with a link. A link by itself is not too helpful. Better a description .

189967 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Basics, 1, #679 of 2158 🔗

Could someone please tweet this link to KBF or Simon?

189977 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Victoria, #680 of 2158 🔗

Already there I believe

189978 ▶▶ helen, replying to Basics, #681 of 2158 🔗

If not here yet will be soon

https://acu2020.org/english-versions/

189950 Basics, replying to Basics, 21, #682 of 2158 🔗

Simon Dolan expressed these words on twitter. I agree 100% percent with them.

“You are in an abusive relationship with the Govt. Like all abusers they want to break you.

“The way out, is to simply refuse to comply.

“If you continue to comply, they will demand more and more. Witness the last 7 months”.

https://twitter.com/simondolan/status/1316995792767471617?s=20

189973 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 7, #683 of 2158 🔗

Yes, we are being groomed

190014 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to stefarm, 2, #684 of 2158 🔗

Exactly. And if you don’t behave, you’ll be punished even more. They are psychopaths.

190049 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, 1, #685 of 2158 🔗

This is why lockdown 2 is happening so quickly, no kickback from Leicester or anywhere else until now in Manchester but then for the wrong reasons.
Essex curling over to be whipped, tossers

190058 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to karenovirus, 1, #686 of 2158 🔗

Not in this part of Essex …

190293 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to kh1485, 1, #687 of 2158 🔗

I hope not, indeed. not.
Saffron Walden isn’t really Essex, it’s Suffolk. A tougher proposition altogether.

190145 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to karenovirus, 3, #688 of 2158 🔗

It’s actually a brilliant system of repression.Reward local authorities for lockdown measures.This then gets the local authorities begging to be locked up despite no reason for it even using the dodgy Government figures.Ie London and Essex.

190233 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, #689 of 2158 🔗

Yes, like this: https://twitter.com/mikemoorhouse/status/1316996485440045058/photo/1
(list of the elements that are part of coercive control – the government are using ALL of them)

189962 kf99, 2, #690 of 2158 🔗

1) What gives them the right to use John Snow’s name? Does he have descendants?

2) Anyone working on GBD t-shirts or badges for us to wear?

189964 Janet Bayly, 1, #691 of 2158 🔗

At last. Real science and opinion. It’s hard to stick your head above the parapet because you’re deemed cruel or a denier and shouted down by frightened people. Thankyou for some real common sense and fact. I hope someone with government weight is reading and and will put this information out. So glad you’ve done this not everyone is on Twitter where a lot of your sound thoughts have been a great reinforcement of scientific common sense.

189979 assoc, replying to assoc, 2, #692 of 2158 🔗

So English people living under tiers 2 and 3 can no longer enter Wales.
Is this legal?

189981 ▶▶ CGL, replying to assoc, 6, #693 of 2158 🔗

It’s not enforceable that’s for sure- the police have already told them that

190002 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to assoc, 5, #694 of 2158 🔗

You can enter. You have my permission as Prince of Wales. I’ve decided to usurp Charlie and imprison Drakeford and his criminal gang in Pembroke Castle, awaiting trial and exec… I mean sentencing.

The court case will be presided over Judge Annie.

190289 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #695 of 2158 🔗

The verdict and sentencing are a foregone conclusion, but we will gladly hear the evidence. And publish it.
Then we only need to build the scaffold and set the date.
All Sceptics are welcome to attend.
Anybody caught wearing a face nappy will be detained for life in the Royal Nursery.

190043 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to assoc, 1, #696 of 2158 🔗

there is no such thing as an Anglo Welsh border, just county boundaries.
Drakford could put the whole of Wales into special measures and prevent all but essential travel by anyone.

190047 ▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to karenovirus, 2, #697 of 2158 🔗

There is a word for Mark Drakeford but with people finding “bedwetter” offensive I will refrain from using it on a family website!

Love, AngloWelshDragon

190291 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #698 of 2158 🔗

Try ‘Dripfeed’.

189982 captainbeefheart, 1, #699 of 2158 🔗

Looks like we’ve lost Lancaster. 🙁

189983 RickH, replying to RickH, 5, #700 of 2158 🔗

Ferguson’s infamous March 16th model has still not been peer-reviewed”

Well – strictly true. But it’s been subjected to the most stringent peer review of all : reality.

… and the verdict??

190035 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to RickH, 5, #701 of 2158 🔗

Unfit for purpose, just like its author.

190037 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to RickH, 4, #702 of 2158 🔗

Before I discovered this site I occasionally contributed to that state mouthpiece the ‘Guardian’. With regard to Mr Ferguson this was my comment on the 10th May:

The Coronavirus lock downs have been carried out mainly on the results of the work carried out by Neil Ferguson of Imperial College London. Ferguson’s computer model initially showed that 500,000 would be dead in the Uk which was revised to 20,000 the day after. Ferguson has since lost his job as chief government adviser for flouting the lock down by meeting up with his married lover on numerous occasions which at best illustrates his hypocrisy (one rule for them and another for me!) and at worst tells us that he knows something the rest of us don’t.

Ferguson has been around a long time and his record of projecting doom and gloom —which does not transpire—is legendary. Ferguson was instrumental in the modelling of the British Government’s response to Foot and Mouth Disease (FMD) in 2001 which resulted in the slaughter of an estimated twelve million animals. The farming community was devastated by suicides and bankruptcies that irretrievably altered the landscape of British agriculture — forcing healthy smallholdings into agri-corporate mergers and empowering the EU central governance in the agricultural sector.

In 2002, Ferguson predicted that up to 50,000 people would die from variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, better known as “mad cow disease”. 178 people in the United Kingdom have died from vCJD, according to the National CJD Research & Surveillance Unit at the University of Edinburgh.

In 2005, Ferguson claimed that up to 200 million people would be killed by bird-flu or H5N1. By early 2006, the WHO had only linked 78 deaths to the virus, out of 147 reported cases.
In 2009, Ferguson and his team at Imperial College advised the government that swine flu or H1N1 would probably kill 65,000 people in the UK. In the end, swine flu claimed the lives of 457 people in the UK.
Now, in 2020, Ferguson and Imperial College have released a report which claims that half a million Britons and 2.2 million Americans may be killed by Covid–19.
The report has still not been peer-reviewed; despite this and Ferguson’s glaring record of mathematical sensationalism, the British Government has adopted the devastating socio-economic lockdown that Ferguson has proposed.

With a record as glaringly incompetent and spectacularly wrong throughout the past two decades, I would just like to pose the question—WHY?

And for those who might like to open their minds to the possibility that all is not as it seems with this virus there is a fact based site here that is very informative:
https://swprs.org/

This post, based on facts and research, got three ticks.
——————————————————————————————————————-

The following comment, in response, got twenty four ticks:

‘What a load of cack.

Cherry picking, out of context , typically science denier rubbish divorced from reality.
Further through the looking glass.’

——————————————————————————————————————-

Which just goes to show the level at which the ‘Guardian’ tolerate and indeed operate their CIF section.

Ferguson doesn’t need to get his work ‘peer reviewed’. There are plenty in power who are happy to use his complete and utter failed career to further their nefarious ends.

190251 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Harry hopkins, 2, #703 of 2158 🔗

Harry – I got banned from the Groan two years ago for posting unexceptional opinions that contradicted Viner’s party line.

They got mostly annoyed by me taking the piss out of their claims to ‘fearless journalism’ etc. in their begging letters. They really didn’t like me pointing out that the strap line ‘Our reporting can change the story’ was a hilariously ironic admission in relation to the censorship and selective reporting that was going on.

It’s not new, and a lot of readers haven’t cottoned on to how its become a propaganda sheet with just a cover of some alternative opinion.

191153 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to RickH, #704 of 2158 🔗

Ferguson’s computer model initially showed that 500,000 would be dead in the Uk which was revised to 20,000 the day after.

No, it wasn’t. You can still read the full report at https://spiral.imperial.ac.uk:8443/bitstream/10044/1/77482/14/2020-03-16-COVID19-Report-9.pdf

191101 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Harry hopkins, #705 of 2158 🔗

In 2002, Ferguson predicted that up to 50,000 people would die from variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, better known as “mad cow disease”. 178 people in the United Kingdom have died from vCJD, according to the National CJD Research & Surveillance Unit at the University of Edinburgh.

No, he didn’t. His estimate for deaths over 80 years from vCJD was between 50 (that’s fifty, not fifty thousand) and 150,000 as a 95% confidence interval, and to quote the paper

Best-fit estimates associated with 2001-2080 confidence bounds generally lie in the range 100-1,000,

It turned out to be 177 over 20 years, which is, obviously, consistent with both the wider and the narrower estimate. Of course the media reported the more exciting “up to” figure rather than “as low as 50”. I agree that an estimate covering some four orders of magnitude would in general be better expressed as “we don’t know”.
From Nature, 10 January 2002

“We cannot exclude the possibility that the epidemic is very large,” says Ferguson. He adds, however, that the worst-case situation is by far the most unlikely.

So his central estimates were 100-1000 over 80 years, and we’ve had 178 over 20 years. Sounds quite good to me.

In 2005, Ferguson claimed that up to 200 million people would be killed by bird-flu or H5N1. By early 2006, the WHO had only linked 78 deaths to the virus, out of 147 reported cases.

No he didn’t. From Nature, 08 September 2005 (my emphasis)

The epidemiologist at Imperial College London wanted to know what would happen if the avian influenza virus H5N1 mutated so that it could pass readily from human to human..

So if avian flu had become human transmissible, then … . But it didn’t and 200 million people didn’t die. Which is good, … . But it didn’t and 200 million people didn’t die. Which is good,

In 2009, Ferguson and his team at Imperial College advised the government that swine flu or H1N1 would probably kill 65,000 people in the UK. In the end, swine flu claimed the lives of 457 people in the UK.

No he didn’t. He was asked for a Reasonable Worst Case estimate. RWCs are explicitly not predictions.

Now, in 2020, Ferguson and Imperial College have released a report which claims that half a million Britons and 2.2 million Americans may be killed by Covid–19.

No he didn’t. He estimated 510,000 deaths “ In the (unlikely) absence of any control measures or spontaneous changes in individual behaviour”.

I’m a little curious as to why these false statements about Ferguson (whom I have no connexion with, and indeed have never met) are repeated so often and in such very similar wording.

190100 ▶▶ helen, replying to helen, 2, #707 of 2158 🔗

ACU 2020
The International Independent Corona Investigation Committee

Has grown out of Arzte für Ausklärung und Anwält fur Ausklärung in Germany..with Dr H Schöning and Dr W Wodarg & Dr Füllmich and Frau Fischer etc now a large an international group as well as doctors & academics but also politicians, activists etc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MWZP4B86rY&feature=emb_logo ,

Their investigation is on going today ;for example.. Taking evidence from an Austrian lawyer on….Corporate power and corruption

190276 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to helen, #708 of 2158 🔗

Thanks Helen.

Do you know when will they start their class action suit? Canada or the US?

190598 ▶▶▶▶ helen, replying to Victoria, #709 of 2158 🔗

No, sorry I don’t know. They are moving as fast as possible because they view this action as the best way shock people and overturn public support for the measures.
David Kurten from UK has joined + others. The UK resistance is so fragmented, weak and seriously under estimating the depth and breadth of this world wide crisis.

189988 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #710 of 2158 🔗

Hello Lockdown Sceptics
Full national lockdowns should ONLY be used against coronavirus as a last resort because of the ‘collateral damage’ on mental health, says WHO boss

But he said total lockdowns caused ‘collateral damage’ and should be avoided
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8846019/National-lockdowns-resort-says-boss.html

190017 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #711 of 2158 🔗

Yes. It’s again a sign of faulty logic. Fence sitting. Having your cake and eating it. Many terms of this.

In Psychology it leads to what is called a double bind. You either break through to a new understanding or you remain in psychological distress

What is a double bind?
According to Bateson, a double bind is a communication dilemma that comes from a conflict between two or more messages. So it doesn’t matter what you do, because any choice you make will be wrong. This is a situation in which communication only causes suffering and can even lead to psychological disorders.

https://exploringyourmind.com/gregory-batesons-double-bind-theory/

190061 ▶▶▶ Michael C, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #712 of 2158 🔗

Eating your cake and still having it, please!

189990 Smelly Melly, replying to Smelly Melly, 29, #713 of 2158 🔗

What a sick society the politicians, MSM and the unquestioning sheople have created. Babies and very young children are denied or have delayed corrective treatment that can be life long impacting, cancer patients going terminal due to lack of treatment, dementia patients being physically restrained just to take a swab test, armed police raiding a gym etc etc.

SHAME on the politicians, SHAME on the MSM and SHAME on the unquestioning people who have allowed this to happen.

190032 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Smelly Melly, 4, #714 of 2158 🔗

SW Academy for the deaf just closed down because of 1 suspected Covid case.

190280 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, #715 of 2158 🔗

They just don’t listen, do they?
And it wasn’t a case, was it? It was a positive test.

190494 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to annie, #716 of 2158 🔗

THEY ARE DEAF!

189992 Danny, replying to Danny, 20, #717 of 2158 🔗

I see the latest SAGE idiocy is to recommend locking down the nation every school holiday. Quite apart from the economic devastation any lockdown will bring, this will further rip apart family life. Grandparents who love spending time with the kids and going out for day trips etc as my parents do, would be utterly distraught at this.
In general, as vitally important as the economy is don’t get me wrong, it feels like nobody really even mentions the bans on households mixing any more, but this is a serious mental health concern.

189995 ▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Danny, 8, #718 of 2158 🔗

Not if you ignore the ban. I find it uplifting, so more visits.

190290 ▶▶▶ Danny, replying to nottingham69, 2, #719 of 2158 🔗

Completely agree. Along with most people on this forum, I would politely suggest where they could put their new rules. But the problem is that for example my parents, when faced with the law and the insidious threat of police (however unlikely) they and many like them will comply, out of fear. That’s what I find so upsetting, for them.

190003 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Danny, 6, #720 of 2158 🔗

We will all have to go on holiday and do the things we expect to do in the holidays in term time then, and take the kids out. They cant have it both ways.

190018 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Danny, 6, #721 of 2158 🔗

It’ll also destroy the travel, leisure and tourism industry even more than it has been already. It’s almost like someone wants that to happen. (Green) Industrial Revolution?

190027 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to leggy, 2, #722 of 2158 🔗

British Airways just been fined £20m for a data protection breach. Not particularly helpful imho.

190124 ▶▶▶ BJJ, replying to leggy, 3, #723 of 2158 🔗

The aim is to destroy everything that pleases ordinary people. We are not entitled to pleasure. Our pleasure destroys the environment it seems.

190023 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Danny, 3, #724 of 2158 🔗

Breaking down family life, all part of the Frankfurt School agenda along with organized religion and education.

190057 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to karenovirus, 9, #725 of 2158 🔗

Despite my feeling that many politicians must have been grown in a lab and transplanted directly into Westminster to remain completely untouched by real life, I cannot believe that they are incapable of understanding that the social fabric of society is being destroyed. Our version of civilisation is a work in progress and far from perfect, but it has been hard won over centuries of war and hardships. Thrown away in the blink of an eye.

190275 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #726 of 2158 🔗

they are grown in a lab. Prep school, private school, university, politics.

190129 ▶▶▶ BJJ, replying to karenovirus, #727 of 2158 🔗

Why do you say the Frankfurt School agenda?

191498 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to BJJ, #728 of 2158 🔗

If you don’t know look it up, it’s been around for 60+ years.

190093 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Danny, 1, #729 of 2158 🔗

I have three children, so the chance of my parents visiting to see them (IF we follow the rules) is already gone.

190278 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to mattghg, #730 of 2158 🔗

Well don’t follow the rules then.

190223 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Danny, #731 of 2158 🔗

I wonder if people don’t mention it anymore because they’re just not complying.

But I agree – this new SAGE proposal has gone beyond lunacy now. Really worried that we are sleepwalking into some horrendous dystopia where ‘shutting down’ becomes normalised during school holidays. Money is no object now the govt has demonstrated it has a bottomless pit of it so I wonder whether the argument ‘they can’t afford it’ really applies anymore.

190229 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Danny, #732 of 2158 🔗

Is this because ‘they’ think that in the case of most families with kids and working parents, they presume that the parents usually take the school holidays off, ie locking down then will not involve parents taking ‘extra’ time off work, because they would ‘normally’ have done that anyway?

190239 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Danny, #733 of 2158 🔗

Maximum benefit would actually be gained by locking up SAGE members for a few years.

… and the SPI-B (‘Goebbels’) crew for a few years more.

You are absolutely right about social and psychological impacts from the experimental Mengele crowd of pseudo-scientists.

Anyone coming up carelessly with these sort of measures has to be a sad misfit who needs to be kept away from policy.

190480 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Danny, 1, #734 of 2158 🔗

It would be one way of reducing holiday costs for SAGE members.

190007 Leemc23, replying to Leemc23, 1, #735 of 2158 🔗

Happened to see a documentary called “Pandemic” on Netflix last night. A 20 odd minute jolly of not deep thinking. But there was Chinese wet markets. Bats and (Dr?) Bill Gates. What is of interest is that this was a 2019 documentary and seems to have correctly pointed out the risk of a zoological (right term?) virus and Chinese wet markets. Then what was fascinating was when they touched on SARS Covid-1. And pointed out how it was spreading in apartment blocks via foul waste and aerosol spread.

Not really sure what, if any conclusion, I came to with the documentary other than they all knew the risk……

190073 ▶▶ Liam, replying to Leemc23, #736 of 2158 🔗

Apparently zoonotic is the term for this kind of virus.

190012 Lili, replying to Lili, 17, #737 of 2158 🔗

Has anyone else noticed that whenever a virus story is accompanied by a photo of a member of the the public walking outside, the person in the photo is always wearing a gag? Just more subliminal messaging. I wonder if this the reason why there are so many more people wearing them out in the fresh air?

190020 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Lili, 17, #738 of 2158 🔗

I no longer watch tennis or motor racing as their organisations force the players and drivers to wear masks even when standing in the open air speaking on camera. I don’t need to see that, not good for my state of happiness.

190091 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Lili, 2, #739 of 2158 🔗

Always. And definitely.

190154 ▶▶ l835, replying to Lili, #740 of 2158 🔗

Because they have lost the ability to think for themselves.

190171 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Lili, #741 of 2158 🔗

Cause they are fucking idiots

190267 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Lili, #742 of 2158 🔗

I watch a lot of UFC (fighting) and it always makes me laugh how people around the ring, the team staff and everyone else are all in masks. And yet the people in the ring are grappling and sweating all over each other with blood and god knows what else flying around on all sides, and between rounds staff are rubbing them with wax or massaging their legs before the next round etc. etc.

But of course lots of fights are being held in places like Saudi Arabia, so the perception of compliance will be a condition of them being allowed to continue.

190535 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Lili, 1, #743 of 2158 🔗

Yes, its brainwashing, re enforcing that people wear masks outside. They have been doing this for ages. The BBC web pages, every photo is of people in masks. I noticed our bastard council have put up big banners now with wear a face mask on them especially outside parks and other open areas.

190021 Paul M, replying to Paul M, 1, #744 of 2158 🔗

We now have another target to aim for..

“Around 47,000 Covid-19 infections are occurring each day across England, with daily deaths expected to hit 240 to 690 by 26 October, according to evidence presented to government scientists.
The Medical Research Council (MRC) biostatistics unit at Cambridge University published new predictions this week on how fast the epidemic is growing across the country.”

Let’s see if this prediction follows the same pattern as all the other gunk they’re scaring people with.

190046 ▶▶ bucky99, replying to Paul M, 2, #745 of 2158 🔗

Given their definition of a ‘Covid’ death, 240 on a single given day seems at least possible. Nearly 700 though… 🤔

190122 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to bucky99, 1, #746 of 2158 🔗

lets see if these deaths feed through to excess mortality stats.

covid deaths still negligible in comparison to flu

190226 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to steve_w, 1, #747 of 2158 🔗

And (sorry to keep repeating – but it’s an important context) – current all-cause mortality is at the bottom end of the quarter-century range. There is no exceptional infective event currently in progress by this criterion.

190271 ▶▶ annie, replying to Paul M, 1, #748 of 2158 🔗

Between 240 and 690.
Not much wriggle room there, eh?

190022 assoc, replying to assoc, #749 of 2158 🔗

This is from the worldometers site / the curve is almost identical for other western nations including France & Germany. It doesn’t look like a second wave to me but we should know in a few weeks

190112 ▶▶ BJJ, replying to assoc, 3, #750 of 2158 🔗

It´s always “in a few weeks”…

190218 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to BJJ, #751 of 2158 🔗

Indeed. Panic on the ‘Never never.’

What really pisses me is that the perpetrators continually get away with the scam, no mater how often they are proved wrong by reality.

190026 JHuntz, replying to JHuntz, 34, #752 of 2158 🔗

Sorry, but i’ve gone past bedwetters and coronaphobes straight to idiots. The remaining people in our population who believe the COVID response is proportional to the risk are idiots. No more no less I can’t dignify myself to being polite.

190031 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to JHuntz, 10, #753 of 2158 🔗

Indeed, and I have no intention of dropping my use of bedwetter or sheeple while they continue to call us covidiots, granny killers and conspiracy theorists.

190269 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 2, #754 of 2158 🔗

Bedwetters.
Disgusting bedwetters.
Disgusting, craven bedwetters.

190051 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to JHuntz, 8, #755 of 2158 🔗

Don’t think this fully captures their cruelty

190063 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Telpin, 10, #756 of 2158 🔗

They think they are kind. I have been trying to talk to a friend- a primary school teacher. She thinks that Covid Marshals should be respected for doing their job of keeping people safe from rule breakers. After all they may need the money because they may have lost their job. Too many ironies on every level – I am afraid i gave up.

190083 ▶▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to CGL, 1, #757 of 2158 🔗

Do you have Covid Marshals in your area?

190117 ▶▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to mattghg, 2, #758 of 2158 🔗

I don’t know tbh! I don’t go into town if I can help it. Is it mainly Northern territories at the moment? If so, then no we wouldn’t.

190149 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to CGL, #759 of 2158 🔗

I haven’t seen any. I know they’ve been talked about I’m not sure if they actually exist … yet.

190164 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to mattghg, #760 of 2158 🔗

The story from on here was from someone living in the north east from memory so they do exist now but not widespread (yet!) maybe.

190085 ▶▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to CGL, 6, #761 of 2158 🔗

I am sure a lot of concentration camp guards lost their jobs during the 1930s. So that’s ok then!

190136 ▶▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 1, #762 of 2158 🔗

Yep – the whole conversation was as a result of a Covid Nazi story that mentioned the holocaust. She was disgusted by it. I could have said I was disgusted by people like her but I’m not as disgusting so i didnt.

190095 ▶▶▶▶ Telpin, replying to CGL, 15, #763 of 2158 🔗

I’m really sorry but I don’t buy this ‘best intentions’ argument any more. I was woken up in the middle of the night by my daughter crying saying she didn’t think she could stand being stuck in her room on her own for the next 10 days ( she’s at uni and has just been out in self isolation confined to her room because someone ( no symptoms) in her ‘household’ has tested positive. She has no contact with him. She’s asthmatic but was finding it impossible to get a repeat prescription Inhaler because she can’t get out and her GP wasn’t returning calls. Everything is upside down. No compassion. The age of reason is dead.

190120 ▶▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Telpin, 1, #764 of 2158 🔗

My first statement was sarcastic – that wasn’t obvious I can now see. I do completely agree with you, but their minds are just not rational to us – and ours aren’t to them either. It is as if we are separate species.
I cant imagine the torture that these poor students are enduring and you parents too – it is just appalling and terrible – these words aren’t strong enough. None are.

190395 ▶▶▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Telpin, #765 of 2158 🔗

If that happens again tell her to dial 999.

190067 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to JHuntz, 7, #766 of 2158 🔗

I’m way past niceties. They are told what I think. The only time I have to modify my language somewhat is at work.

190033 AngloWelshDragon, 4, #767 of 2158 🔗

My suggestion for song of the day: “Tiers of a Clown”. Dedicated to Bojo.

190050 Telpin, replying to Telpin, 17, #768 of 2158 🔗

My daughter has been forced into self isolation – now incarcerated in her room – only allowed to use corridor shower and toilet facilities. This is just because one student in the ‘ household’ ( a group devised by the College – has no bearing on actual contact) was tested positive. He has no symptoms and neither do any of the other household members. Who knows if it’s a false positive. Someone from the college has attached a notice ‘Self Isolating’ on each of the doors. They may as well have pinned up ‘Unclean’. One fine art student had previously pinned pictures of students and these were taken down without her consent. Locking up healthy people in their rooms – what sort of country have we become??’‘

190053 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Telpin, 7, #769 of 2158 🔗

this surely has to be unlawful???

190062 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to JHuntz, 6, #770 of 2158 🔗

Yes, I’d like to know under what legal framework the uni are depriving healthy individuals of their liberty under.

190163 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Tom Blackburn, #771 of 2158 🔗

Contract law.

190070 ▶▶▶ Liam, replying to JHuntz, 10, #772 of 2158 🔗

There simply is no law anymore. Covid shalt be the whole of the law.

190134 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Liam, 5, #773 of 2158 🔗

We ceased to be under the rule of law on March 23.No sign of it returning anytime soon

190072 ▶▶▶ Telpin, replying to JHuntz, 3, #774 of 2158 🔗

I have no idea any more ( and I’m a lawyer!). We’ll see how Francis Hoar fares on October 29.

190107 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Telpin, 1, #775 of 2158 🔗

Most likely with a token hearing thrown out the same afternoon.

190217 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to DRW, 2, #776 of 2158 🔗

Well after yesterday he knows that the government will, the day before the court date, repeal the legislation the case is based on and replace it with something out, in order to try and get it dismissed on a technicality..

190214 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to JHuntz, 2, #777 of 2158 🔗

Surely must be – no fresh air, which is essential for health. How come under the national lockdown people were allowed one hour a day to exercise, but students are not??

190320 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to JHuntz, 3, #778 of 2158 🔗

These are the laws that appear to have been diluted:
1) Police and Criminal Evidence Act
2) Health and Safety – Display Screen Equipment Regulations Employers of people working from home who normally work in an office should do a risk assessment of the computer set up to ensure that employees do not suffer injury.
3) Human Rights Act
4) Mental Capacity Act
5) Discrimination Act
6) Deprivation of Liberty safeguards.
7) Children Act
8) Education act

190074 ▶▶ John Galt, replying to Telpin, 2, #779 of 2158 🔗

Can she not just come home? Or are the lessons no longer all online?

190104 ▶▶▶ Telpin, replying to John Galt, 12, #780 of 2158 🔗

Apparently not allowed. She called me in the middle of night crying as she’s asthmatic snd wasn’t able to get a repeat inhaler as the GP wasn’t answering calls and she’s not allowed out. That’s now been resolved this morning but normal medical services are ten times more difficult while they exert all their efforts on locking healthy people up. No compassion whatsoever.

190147 ▶▶▶▶ l835, replying to Telpin, 5, #781 of 2158 🔗

Go get her

190159 ▶▶▶▶ John Galt, replying to Telpin, 5, #782 of 2158 🔗

So she’s literally imprisoned? What on earth…

If she did leave and come home, did they say what would happen?

190212 ▶▶▶▶▶ Telpin, replying to John Galt, 6, #783 of 2158 🔗

They have staff on the premises – and – as I said – they’ve now all been marked out with signs on their doors. I agree that I don’t think they can stop them leaving – but the fees have already been paid so a They have little bargaining power. And my daughter reports a culture of fear NOT a of the virus but of the strong arm of authority. People seriously need to wake up to what they’re losing or have lost already. No one should dare tell me that this is worth it. I’ll spontaneously combust 🤯

190222 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Telpin, 1, #784 of 2158 🔗

Can she leave during the night and come home?

190255 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Carrie, 3, #785 of 2158 🔗

She can leave any time she likes, if anyone lays a finger on her it’s assault, and if anyone claims it’s breaking a rule they’re supporting false imprisonment. Really feel for you Telpin, must be pretty distressing.

190514 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Telpin, #786 of 2158 🔗

Jings take her out of there.

190089 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Telpin, 4, #787 of 2158 🔗

Human Rights Watch, say they are looking closely at what is going on, whatever that means

190094 ▶▶ Olive, replying to Telpin, 5, #788 of 2158 🔗

Speechless. Actually completely speechless. I am truly wondering how to get out of this country with its grotesque culture and utter loss of compassion, care or common sense.

190106 ▶▶ Dame Lynet, replying to Telpin, 6, #789 of 2158 🔗

Time for students to cut their losses and start getting refunds, this could be on and off for months. Being at home with time and space to regroup would surely be better than this and if a good number do it it may give universities pause for thought.

190178 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Telpin, 1, #790 of 2158 🔗

Feel so sorry for your daughter.

However suggest they square up with this idiotic student that had a test without displaying symptoms. It is his/her fault that the others are banished to their rooms.

 STOP GETTING A TEST

190197 ▶▶▶ Telpin, replying to Victoria, 3, #791 of 2158 🔗

The student concerned absolutely tried his best ( believe me the students are trying to avoid them like mad) but they’re being strong armed into having them by denial of services or not being permitted to play in teams unless they submit.

190238 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Telpin, 2, #792 of 2158 🔗

Sorry to hear this.

Although I’m not a student and have no kids, when I saw the story of IQ residences in Leeds securing the fire exit on a student block with a cable tie, I immediately called security on site to confirm it had been removed. If they hadn’t, I was ready to go to site and cause trouble until they sorted it. I think we all need to be willing to do the same, whether that’s making a phone call, causing bad publicity for them online, or turning up on site and acting as civilian police.

190343 ▶▶ Ryan, replying to Telpin, 5, #793 of 2158 🔗

Oh for goodness sake just ignore the nonsense.

Do what you need to do and be done with it.

Why in God’s name are you putting up with this drivel?

Go get her and if anybody gets in your way break their nose.

190417 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Telpin, 2, #794 of 2158 🔗

This is appalling. What universities are doing is cruel and it can only because not only have the swallowed the propaganda whole but because they desperately need the money. Especially in the absence of the lucrative overseas students.

They’re setting themselves up for trouble as well. What happens if harm comes to a student while self-isolating?

Time for parents to band together to protest at this nonsense. Students as well – you have nothing to lose but your chains! (with apologies to Marx & Engels)

190064 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #795 of 2158 🔗

A social experiment is a type of research done in fields like psychology or sociology to see how people behave in certain situations or how they respond to particular policies or programs. Are we still at the ‘experimental’ stage,

190068 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #796 of 2158 🔗

I think we should get an A** for resistance in the face of overwhelming opposition

190077 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to CGL, 1, #797 of 2158 🔗

Well that’s something to keep us going!

190082 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #798 of 2158 🔗

My wife is convinced this is indeed such an experiment, that will end in March. No idea why she thinks this. She was right about the October lockdowns though, which she predicted many months ago.

190526 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Mr Dee, #800 of 2158 🔗

She is right. It is an experiment. Hopefully and it has an end date, sadly I think that the end date is extending past next March as it has all gone so well so far..

190076 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #801 of 2158 🔗

Z-shield (look it up).

From muzzle to collar.

190180 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Mr Dee, #802 of 2158 🔗

Thought she was in a glass cube for a moment!

190078 Chris Hume, replying to Chris Hume, 5, #803 of 2158 🔗

A great edition today. Thank you Will.

190300 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Chris Hume, 1, #804 of 2158 🔗

Yes, it is very good. He doesn’t do the Toby piss-takes so much, but skewers the arguments on the technical stuff.

190084 Liam, replying to Liam, 5, #805 of 2158 🔗

Prediction (and I’m not talking ten gazillion cases a day by Monday and everyone dead in a week). Sooner or later a Covid Chekist will kill or seriously injure a refusenik, most likely a student, with a chokehold or other restraint.

190099 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Liam, #806 of 2158 🔗

Which is why I carry a weapon. It’s 2020. We’re not in Kansas anymore Toto.

190148 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to chaos, #807 of 2158 🔗

“Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six” is the argument, but I’m not personally convinced that we are in that situation in this country. I don’t carry a weapon routinely, and I’m a historical weapons collector so I own dozens. But the fact is that you are infinitely more likely to end up serving time for illegally carrying a weapon, or for using it illegally albeit in self defence, than you are to save your own life with it.

There are two main reasons for that. First, we live in a society that is culturally and institutionally biased against self defence, and heavily hoplophobic. Second, in reality the risks are mostly not high enough to justify it (imo, obviously, and to some extent it depends on your personal location, behaviour and choices).

So I’d say if you feel the need to carry a weapon, make it a walking stick so it is at least deniable.

190175 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Mark, #808 of 2158 🔗

And if you do carry a walking stick for this purpose, learn how to use it, with canne, eskrima or singlestick, or similar. Not that you are likely to come up against anyone similarly armed, but these practices will at least familiarise you generally with the use of the stick in combat.

190456 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Liam, #809 of 2158 🔗

It’ll probably be me, knowing my luck.

190141 ▶▶ Will, replying to arfurmo, 4, #811 of 2158 🔗

I don’t think she has any choice which is why Germany’s response has been so much more measured than the UK’s. She can only seek to persuade under the federal system and Germany’s regional leaders are considerably brighter than the UK’s.

190172 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Will, 5, #812 of 2158 🔗

Some German regional leaders and parliaments are panicking, like my home country of Schleswig-Holstein:
From next week, after the school holidays, all pupils in secondary schools have to wear face coverings all the time for at least 2 weeks.

Fines up to 1000 Euro if you have been found to supplied a wrong name in a restaurant. (How they are going to find you I doubt).
Face coverings on open air markets or busy shopping streets.

Holiday makers from areas with high positive counts are not allowed to stay. This has been overruled by courts in 2 other federal states.

In Hessen, they want to change legislation so that restaurant owners can check your ID.

Luckily there are lots of lawyers, business owners and individuals who challenge legislation in court – and sometimes win.

190262 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Silke David, #813 of 2158 🔗

Ugh.

190295 ▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Silke David, #814 of 2158 🔗

(How they are going to find you I doubt).

Find the name in payment records that doesn’t match the signing in list? If you’ve paid electronically of course.

190151 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to arfurmo, 1, #815 of 2158 🔗

Germany has federal states, who make their own legislation. regulations re C.
Berlin is such a federal state, it introduced a “sperrstunde” starting from last weekend, and it has been overturned by court. It only means they can stay open, but they cannot serve alcohol after 11pm. That is another paragraph in the regulation, which needs to be challenged with a different challenge.
Apparently the court said the statistics compiled by the RKI do not show that being in a restaurant after 11pm increases the risk of getting infected.

190202 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to arfurmo, 2, #816 of 2158 🔗

Compare and contrast with the UK courts, who merely side with the government.

The judge yesterday tried to throw out Simon’s case in the first few minutes because the government had ‘neatly’ repealed the legislation the case was based on the day before the court date (and replaced it with different legislation)..

Does anyone know how the Crimes against Humanity case is going?

190224 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Carrie, 1, #817 of 2158 🔗

I saw that. Wonder if there is a way to prepare these charges against government taking into account that they will make change legislation for whatever you charge them with. Also top ensure that lawyer cant pull out air the last minute or that witnesses are recalled for a meeting with Boris?

190252 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Victoria, 1, #818 of 2158 🔗

I think they should be able to call Hancock as a witness!

190270 ▶▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Carrie, 3, #819 of 2158 🔗

Hancock was called as a witness but then the judge excused him because Boris that morning called a meeting for that afternoon where Hancock apparently had to attend. The underhanded tactics are amazing.

190281 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Victoria, #820 of 2158 🔗

What a surprise…not!

190090 BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 6, #821 of 2158 🔗

You may have seen this advertisement taken out in the Irish Times yesterday. Well, the debunk from the head line click bait mask zealot Journal.ie has also been released.

It admits the facts presented are correct. But…ill let you vomit over the rest.

https://www.thejournal.ie/factcheck-irish-times-covid-19-ad-5234373-Oct2020/

190108 ▶▶ Liam, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 4, #822 of 2158 🔗

Journal.ie is owned by the billionaire Irish businessman Denis O’ Brien, the country’s largest media owner and perennial Davos attendee.

A quick google for “Denis O’ Brien scandal” produces a wealth of material. A class A crook, swindler and bully.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2016/jan/11/denis-obrien-under-investigation-by-irelands-criminal-assets-bureau

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47419221

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/money-trail-denis-o-brien-michael-lowry-and-the-criminal-assets-bureau-1.3283392

190436 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Liam, #823 of 2158 🔗

Didn’t know that. All roads lead to the same places.

190125 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #824 of 2158 🔗

I’ll take this one quote:

“A further claim – which suggests that if a person who has Covid-19 dies after being hit by a bus, they will be added to official statistics on coronavirus deaths – is false.

Since it was published this morning, the ad has been shared hundreds of times on Facebook by pages linked to Yellow Vests Ireland, a group which claims to be apolitical but is connected to anti-government movements.

The group, a loose network of activists that developed through Facebook groups, has helped to organise a number of protests against Covid-19 restrictions and is one of several networks using the pandemic to try to recruit members.

Counting Covid-19 deaths

One of the claims in the ad relates to how Ireland counts deaths from Covid-19.

It states (as a “fact”): “In Ireland, if a person died from a heart attack, stroke, cancer or even having been hit by a bus and if that person also tested positive for Covid-19, their death is reported as a Covid-19 death”.

The way in which Ireland counts deaths from Covid-19 has been the source of misinformation throughout the pandemic, particularly as attributing a death to the virus isn’t a straightforward process.

Attributing a death due to Covid-19 is down to the judgement of individual medical workers in different facilities, from hospitals to nursing homes and other settings.

In cases where a death occurs outside a medical setting, the local coroner is the person responsible – in which case the person’s cause of death can take months to verify.

Deaths due to Covid-19 that are announced are almost always lab confirmed; that is, the deceased has been positively identified as having Covid-19 because they have been tested.

Sometimes, “probable” and “possible” deaths from the virus are notified as well, where a death is notified in a person suspected to have died as a result of Covid-19 but who was not tested.

However, these can later be de-notified, if it has been deemed that the person did not die with Covid-19.”

That last paragraph is the debunk. They can relist the death at a later date. With no post mortem? How do the expect to do that? How many times has this actually in Ireland?

Its disgraceful. To start off by ensuring its labelled as conspiracy and then suggest that CV-19 deaths counted have subsequently been verified is nonsense. So all 2000 or so, were due directly to CV-19? They all had symptoms and deterioration of health due to the virus. No co-morbidities etc. Total and utter nonsense. How many deaths have been registered as CV-19 after this kind of further review is carried out?

To be expected though.

190161 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #825 of 2158 🔗

I always look forward to a laugh when I see the next fact checker on the Journal. This one is a classic. Basically they are saying that everything is true but that it is also false. I really don’t know why they bother. They must think their readers are stupid. Noted that they weren’t bold enough to open this piece of shite for comment. They also had the gall to ask the Irish Times if they had fact checked the ad before publishing it.

190096 Nobody2020, 6, #826 of 2158 🔗

My issue with modelling is not in the modelling itself but how it is used.

The reaction to the reasonable worst case was not so much how do we mitigate this but more what must we do to avoid this at all costs.

Ironically “doing nothing” would itself have been a form of mitigation as people were already changing their behaviour. So the RWC was never really that reasonable in the first place.

190101 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #827 of 2158 🔗

Covid is the New Religion. Its done the same thing all religions have done.

190113 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #828 of 2158 🔗

The arguments between Suppression and Immunity certainly reminds me of the ideological debate between the Catholic and Protestant churches.

190118 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Nobody2020, #829 of 2158 🔗

The Fear and Damnation have worked again

190199 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to chaos, #831 of 2158 🔗

AI systems usually “learn” based on human example. If they do the same here, their source material will be of very low quality. It could be an incredibly efficient vehicle for corruption.

190111 captainbeefheart, replying to captainbeefheart, 4, #832 of 2158 🔗

Just found this comment on the UnGuardian, not sure if it’s sarcasm…

How many more hundreds and thousands of people will have to die unnecessarily on the alter of Johnson’s Ego before he bows to the inevitable and pulls the emergency brake on the spread of coronavirus??”

190335 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to captainbeefheart, #833 of 2158 🔗

Altar*

190380 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to captainbeefheart, #834 of 2158 🔗

Was it Titania McGrath?

190119 James007, replying to James007, 11, #835 of 2158 🔗

I finally read “Animal Farm” last night for the first time. The sheep reminded me of those who bleat back the government slogans and follow all advice seemingly without any thinking whatsoever. They are given a 6-word version of the rules of animalism which they are able to remember and bleat constantly, which is later revised. Reminded me a bit of “hands, face, space”, or whatever it is or used to be!
The rest of the farm animals are not really sceptical, but do get concerned about the rulings of the secret committee of pigs, which seem to increase in their harshness, and seem to change and degrade the original philosophy, which no one can quite recall.

Squealer is the pig in charge of controlling the animals, perhaps such a character today would be a good fit as a behavioural scientist for the government, or perhaps he could appear at Johnson’s press conferences. He manipulates the animals with statistics, and linguistic games. He mainly uses fear as a method for control, his clinching argument is usually that if the animals don’t follow the advice of the pigs, they risk farmer Jones returning – and despite disagreements amongst the animals, they all agree that Jones returning would be bad.

Anyway not making any parallels, I know the book is inspired by the founding of the Russian Revolution and the USSR, and how political ideals can be polluted by power and corruption, but I did stop reading at points and think about the present day.

190142 ▶▶ RickH, replying to James007, 5, #836 of 2158 🔗

It is about Stalin’s Russia, following Orwell’s disillusionment in Spain. But it’s also about the wider issues of power.

190143 ▶▶ FlynnQuill, replying to James007, 5, #837 of 2158 🔗

Remember! All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others!

I’d have had Hancock down as Squealer.

190144 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to James007, 8, #838 of 2158 🔗

I keep thinking about the scene after the windmill collapses in the middle of the night. The animals all rush over to see that their work was for nothing, because (in reality) it was badly designed. But Squealer seizes the opportunity to blame a dissident: “You know who has done this? Snowball!” Exactly how we know that lockdowns have next to no positive impact, but “rule breakers” get blamed for their failure.

191189 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to mattghg, 1, #839 of 2158 🔗

That’s an excellent point. Uniting people in fear and distrust of a common enemy is a powerful controller. Snowball, from being a hero of the revolution, is said by Squeaker to be in league with Jones. He seems to play a similar role to the opposition leader in 1984.

Fear of Covid is real and very potent. People are more afraid of it than they ever were of other more common and more dangerous conditions. I wondered if it was a factor, that this disease is the first major epidemic in the social media age, in a society hysterical, yet materially comfortable and will dim memories of real hardship, and the fact that we all die, and our odds of another year shorten as we get to 80,90..

I think Sturgeon hopes to be seen as the saviour of her nation. Leading the people safely to her glorious independence. Down south, Johnson wants to be seen to have moved heaven and earth to protect “our” NHS.

To be honest I was afraid of Covid back in the Spring. After the text message of doom, and Johnson’s shutdown, I realised I had far bigger things to fear.

What a bloody mess.

190157 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to James007, 8, #840 of 2158 🔗

“not making any parallels”…. if you don’t know by now that we’re in the middle of a communist or fascist takeover….

190177 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to TyLean, 6, #841 of 2158 🔗

So true.All this talk of models etc is just a diversion.That made sense when you could still believe in the Governments good faith but it’s increasing irrelevant.
The police state is in its embryonic state and can be stopped now if we push back.
Parliament,the Courts,Media and most of our institutions are either complicit or useless.
That leaves ourselves

190195 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #842 of 2158 🔗

Yes, saw this and am extremely worried by the strong similarities between it and what the UK government seems to be doing: https://thecanadianreport.ca/is-this-leaked-memo-really-trudeaus-covid-plan-for-2021-you-decide/

Thoughts?

190166 ▶▶ Liam, replying to James007, 5, #843 of 2158 🔗

Still makes me cry to think of poor old Boxer the horse.

190170 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to Liam, 3, #844 of 2158 🔗

Yes. The animals see what is written on the van and try to save him. Later they are lied to by squealer and encouraged to believe that what they saw with their own eyes was wrong!

190247 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to James007, 2, #845 of 2158 🔗

And they do believe it.

190609 ▶▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to James007, #846 of 2158 🔗

These days we’d call it gaslighting.

191161 ▶▶▶▶▶ James007, replying to mattghg, #847 of 2158 🔗

Does this term derive from the gripping 1944 Thriller “gaslight”?

192650 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to James007, #848 of 2158 🔗

I believe so.

190244 ▶▶ annie, replying to James007, 4, #849 of 2158 🔗

The Russian Rev allegory is of historical interest only. The real point is the stupidity of the animals, particularly the sheep. They let the pigs get away with it.
The present bollox would not surprise Orwell in the least.

190465 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to annie, 1, #850 of 2158 🔗

Like Shakespeare, Orwell is not of an age but for all time.

190992 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to James007, 1, #851 of 2158 🔗

Read “1984” next if you haven’t already done so.

190266 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Lili, 3, #853 of 2158 🔗

No joke, to my mind the Chinese aspect of all this has been a bit sinister and dubious from the start, now they can make shed loads of money by shipping dodgy vaccine around the world, who would worry about having a jab of vaccine from the country that gave us the virus in the first place? Later on the chinese will probably sell us the drug to deal with the side effects of their dodgy vaccine!

190216 ▶▶ fran, replying to chaos, 4, #855 of 2158 🔗

Thanks for the list chaos. I recomend the first one on your list – Dave Cullen aka ‘Computing Forever’. I have just watched it for the second time. Brilliant analysis. Damning indictment of the wef and its “4th Industrial Revolution” and its ‘Great Reset’ using the ‘pandemic’ to push through policies that would otherwise never be accepted by people. Note early on in the video the mention of a meeting in Parliament in 2018 of the All Party Group on the 4th Industrial Revolution where a very enthusiastic MP introduced this wef founder Karl Schwab bloke.

The enthusiastic MP was Matt Hancock.

Also Have a look at the excerpt from Schwabs recent book ‘Covid-19 The Great Reset’ [at 27:50].

190500 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to fran, #856 of 2158 🔗

Thank you.. good stuff.

190127 RickH, replying to RickH, 11, #857 of 2158 🔗

Thanks to Mike Yeadon for his comprehensive article today.

Just one thought :

What there were in profusion – seven in total – were mathematicians.”

… is a justified criticism of the composition of SAGE.

But there is a fundamental underlying point : these modellers were essentially poor scientists .

Implicitly, Mike Yeadon does cover the the issue – it is because in using inferential statistical methods, they forgot the first chapter of the book – which tells you what to do before you do anything else.

i.e LOOK at your data – input and output. Does it stack up in terms of known reality?

It’s absolutely fundamental before you go on to make inferences.

I remember, a few months ago, having a minor argument with a Covid captive (he, unfortunately for him, didn’t know that I knew all about statistical bullshit). His claim to superior insight was ‘I use Principle Component Analysis in my job’. But whilst busy tapping the keys of his keyboard to input stuff, he obviously hadn’t stopped to read that first chapter about descriptive statistical methods.

Sounds just like SAGE modelling.

190153 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to RickH, 3, #858 of 2158 🔗

these modellers were essentially poor scientists .

They should not have been expected to act as scientists, and indeed I’m not sure that they were. They could reasonably be expected to engage constructively with scientists and understand how to work with them to produce models and outputs that were useful to science.

From Dr Yeadon’s piece

What there were in profusion – seven in total – were mathematicians. This comprised the modelling group.

Good. Who else would you expect to be building mathematical models?

It is their output that has been responsible for torturing the population for the last seven months or so.

Nonsense. The responsibility for government policy lies, as always, with government ministers.

190189 ▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Richard Pinch, 4, #859 of 2158 🔗

Fully agree that accountability ultimately lies with government ministers. For anyone who has run projects using the PRINCE2 methodology, they would use a RACI matrix do define the persons “Accountable” and “Responsible” and that’s how I see this distinction.

190194 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Richard Pinch, 3, #860 of 2158 🔗

I totally agree that it’s the politicians who should primarily be hung out to dry. They choose. They make the decisions.

But re. my remark on ‘poor scientists’ – I am using the term in its basic, root meaning. A meaning by which we can all be judged re. the handling of knowledge – evidence and its analysis.

A modeller who isn’t a ‘scientist’ in this sense should just piss off and get another job like office cleaning, with the hope that they can actually do it despite their record.

But – bottom line : the SAGE group collectively has been a know-nothing disaster.

190207 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to RickH, #861 of 2158 🔗

If you’re using the term in an unusual way, you must expect not to be well understood. I understand you now to be saying that they were bad at their job, namely mathematical modelling. I dispute that and challenge you to produce evidence.

190243 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #862 of 2158 🔗

I’d hope that someone who is good at mathematical modelling, who has influence, and who is asked to do a very important task that affects millions of people, might consider the problem they have been given “in the round” and apply common sense.

Rightly or wrongly, I think that is what politicians and the general public would expect someone like Ferguson to do. The politicians are lazy and incompetent and wicked and should have been much more questioning, but I still think that anyone on SAGE really should be trying to act in the best interests of public welfare, to the utmost of all their wide abilities, and I am not conviced they have been.

190689 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Julian, #863 of 2158 🔗

I would hope that too. In fact, I have no particular reason to believe that they have all failed to do so, as has been so confidently asserted here.

191226 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Felice, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #864 of 2158 🔗

You are obviously a very intelligent man, well versed in debating. First you pick up on mild inaccuracies in arguments, correct a bit of hyperbole, query some assertions, then, when your comments have been countered, you lob in some generalisations or sweeping statements. You nit pick and split hairs, and seem unable to see past the details.

It’s all very well for you, retired, no doubt with a gold plated pension from GCHQ, living in rural Gloucestershire (go on – pick me up on that as no doubt it is not rural Gloucestershire, but the city itself). Coming on here is probably a bit of amusement, a bit of fun. Like shooting fish in a barrel. But there are people on here, and people I know, who are facing bankruptcy thanks to lockdown policy.

191263 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Felice, replying to Felice, #865 of 2158 🔗

Debating the finer points of modelling is not a game to them.

191336 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Felice, #866 of 2158 🔗

… and it’s not a game to me either.

191332 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Felice, -2, #867 of 2158 🔗

I won’t bother much about personal comments from someone hiding behind a pseudonym. I write things that I believe to be true and do so openly under my own name. I’ll consider taking remarks like this seriously when posted by someone who can say the same.

190302 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #868 of 2158 🔗

Their formulations are so full of maybes that it makes the whole package a complete waste of time. Their disclaimers should be front and centre rather than popped on the end, instead of pretending they can reorder a whole society and avoid scrutiny with some small print. It is highly unethical quackery.

190336 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Tom Blackburn, -1, #869 of 2158 🔗

Hard to respond unless you specify who “they” are, and what “their formulations” are. A lot of people have said a lot of things …

191228 ▶▶▶▶▶ Felice, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #870 of 2158 🔗

Nit picking and hair splitting again…

191324 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Felice, -2, #871 of 2158 🔗

I appreciate that some people get quite cross when they’re asked to be clear and precise about what they’re saying.

190130 Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 16, #872 of 2158 🔗

Just booked a trip to Sweden, very much looking forward to a buffet breakfast!

190187 ▶▶ Liam, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 3, #873 of 2158 🔗

Tell us about it when you get back.

190215 ▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Liam, 9, #874 of 2158 🔗

Will do. We’re taking the kids as well, it will be nice for them to experience what I hope will be some normality after so long in this distorted reality.

Due to go on Nov 6th, but because we’re bringing the kids we’ll probably have to rearrange if they add Sweden to the quarantine list between now and then. My daughter will almost certainly tell her friends and teachers all about it when we get back, and unfortunately nowadays it seems you can’t trust people not to inform the authorities! If it was just me and the wife we would go regardless.

190245 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, #875 of 2158 🔗

Whereabouts in Sweden are you going?

190257 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Carrie, 1, #876 of 2158 🔗

As it’s term time we’ve only got the weekend, so we’ve booked a hotel right in the centre of Stockholm, close to the Vasa Theatre.

190264 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 3, #877 of 2158 🔗

Your kids might like the Vasa museum: https://www.vasamuseet.se/en
And if I remember rightly it is free for under 18s..

They might also enjoy Skansen: https://www.skansen.se/en/
Open air and lots to do, including animals to see 🙂

190292 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Carrie, #878 of 2158 🔗

Excellent, thanks. I think my daughter would really enjoy the Vasa Museum, and my 1 year old son loves fish and the ocean, so the aquarium at Skansen would be right up his street!

190461 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 1, #879 of 2158 🔗

Highlights of our visit:
Walking round the islands of Djurgarden and Skeppsholmen
NK department store (great food hall, toilets)
Pizza from Dell’Attore
Meatballs at Riche
The metro – super-clean, lovely stations, no masks

190559 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, #880 of 2158 🔗

On the subject of toilets, thinking of children and their tendency to suddenly need the loo (!) – one of the peculiarities of Sweden is that it is *not* easy to just pop into a fast food restaurant and use the facilities, like in the UK – there is always a code that you have to get from the staff and you can only do so if you actually are eating there..

The department store NK has toilets, but the vast majority of shops do not – just a heads-up, Lockdown Lunacy!

190567 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Carrie, #881 of 2158 🔗

There were some open toilets out and about that required a coin – Carrie will know which one. Worth making sure you have some change.

We got caught out – but equally it was so lovely to go into cafes with no hassle that we were quite happy to buy our visit to the loo for a cup of tea and some cake.

190482 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, #882 of 2158 🔗

Enjoy the Vasa Museum and do go to the Royal Palace as well if you have the time.

190357 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kenadams, replying to Carrie, 3, #883 of 2158 🔗

Is the Vasa museum the one with the amazingly well preserved old boat? Whichever museum that is in, definitely go. Loads better than the Mary Rose.

190484 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kenadams, 1, #884 of 2158 🔗

Yes that’s the one. They also show an excellent film that details how they were able to raise the ship from the sea.

190138 RickH, replying to RickH, 12, #885 of 2158 🔗

“Matt Hancock told MPs this was due to an “exponential” growth in infections”

One question: “Is he really that stupid. Or is he just lying?”

…Oh! – and and one other :

“What the f. is he doing in charge of health services?”

190152 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to RickH, 11, #886 of 2158 🔗

He is a dangerous individual. Highly untrustworthy and drunk on power. He’s gone rogue.

190185 ▶▶▶ Telpin, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #887 of 2158 🔗

Watch him in speeches. He talks as if in slow motion – as if his brain is trying to catch up

190237 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Telpin, 4, #888 of 2158 🔗

It fails.

190158 ▶▶ Dame Lynet, replying to RickH, 1, #889 of 2158 🔗

So many use ‘exponential’ without understanding what it really means, as they do with ‘decimate’.

190208 ▶▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to Dame Lynet, 3, #890 of 2158 🔗

Indeed. Didn’t Peston say something like “less exponential” or “slightly exponential”?
It’s a big word – it contains 11 letters and 4 whole syllables, so using it makes them look soooo very clever. They wish!

190286 ▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Dame Lynet, 1, #891 of 2158 🔗

If they said the reality – that the growth rate is exponentially reducing, since it’s a sigmoid function on the left side of the gompertz curve – maybe that wouldn’t sound so scary?

190296 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Dame Lynet, #892 of 2158 🔗

Yes, people don’t realise that if a population is decimated then 90% remain.

190190 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to RickH, 1, #893 of 2158 🔗

Door Matt as the Guardian calls him

190571 ▶▶ l835, replying to RickH, #894 of 2158 🔗

Yes he is that stupid, see his comments on vaccines for AIDS or Malaria

No he isn’t in charge of the Health Service. See any episode of ‘Yes Minister’ for an explanation of how this government works.

190156 Lucan Grey, replying to Lucan Grey, 19, #895 of 2158 🔗

if they are published or peer reviewed”

We really do need to stop playing the “published” or “peer reviewed” game. Neither of these things mean a jot in science. “Peer review” is better called “Pal review”, as everybody looking at it will be within the Groupthink.

“Pal review” has been an issue in much of the social sciences for decades and now the same propaganda tricks seem to be drifting into the life sciences.

“Replicated” is what matters – preferably by a team with precisely the opposite viewpoint targeting the result as a null hypothesis.

Without that it is Scientism, not science.

190167 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Lucan Grey, 2, #896 of 2158 🔗

Absolutely correct!

190165 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 12, #897 of 2158 🔗

“Quockerwodger”

190181 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Victoria, 3, #898 of 2158 🔗

Great word!

190179 Crazy Times, replying to Crazy Times, 53, #899 of 2158 🔗

Sturgeon suggests people cycle to a testing centre. If you’re well enough to cycle to one, you don’t need to be tested. If you aren’t well enough, you definitely shouldn’t be getting on a bike!

190183 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Crazy Times, 20, #900 of 2158 🔗

Great post!

STOP GETTING A TEST

190272 ▶▶▶ FlynnQuill, replying to Victoria, 13, #901 of 2158 🔗

I was under the impression that you could only get a test if you had symptoms? So why would somebody get a test if they didn’t have any? I think the problem again is people’s ignorance. A large majority believe that a snotty nose and sneezing are symptoms of the virus; they are not. So, we’ll basically have tens of thousands of idiots saying they have symptoms and going for a test. I have heard people in my office comment on people sneezing saying “oh you may have Covid”, boils my piss! I of course educate them.

STOP GETTING TESTED YOU IDIOTS!

190551 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to FlynnQuill, 2, #902 of 2158 🔗

In one of the Northern towns think it was Manchester, the army knocked on doors ‘asking’ people to get a test.

190764 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Victoria, 2, #903 of 2158 🔗

Brum. (Which is not Northern).

191259 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Bruno, 1, #904 of 2158 🔗

And isn’t Manchester.

190184 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Crazy Times, 4, #905 of 2158 🔗

Wear a visor to be on the safe side

190191 ▶▶ FlynnQuill, replying to Crazy Times, 5, #906 of 2158 🔗

It would be ironic if you were killed going for a test on a bike!

190196 ▶▶▶ Crazy Times, replying to FlynnQuill, 7, #907 of 2158 🔗

It would be marked straight down as another COVID death as well!

190205 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to FlynnQuill, 5, #908 of 2158 🔗

Definitely a covid death if that happens

190250 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to CGL, 4, #909 of 2158 🔗

But that would be a GENUINE covid death.

190220 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Crazy Times, 12, #910 of 2158 🔗

She should get on her fucking bike and fuck off

190381 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to Crazy Times, 4, #911 of 2158 🔗

Nicola Sturgeon is a hate crime.

190192 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #912 of 2158 🔗

While all the votes against Amendment 8 were Tory, it might be heartening to see how many Tories abstained.

https://votes.parliament.uk/Votes/Commons/Division/881?byMember=True#notrecorded

Or maybe not ….

190259 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #913 of 2158 🔗

Minor rebellion over the Covert Intelligence Travesty:

Keir Starmer ordered his MPs to abstain on the Covert Human Intelligence Sources Bill, which prevents officers from being prosecuted if they commit crimes as part of their work infiltrating criminal groups.
…. Dan Carden, the last staunch left-winger serving as a shadow minister, resigned from his post saying: “You will understand that as a Liverpool MP and trade unionist, I share the deep concerns about this legislation from across the labour movement, human rights organisations, and so many who have suffered the abuse of state power, from blacklisted workers to the Hillsborough families and survivors.”
Margaret Greenwood stepped down as shadow schools minister to oppose the legislation while five more MPs quit their roles as parliamentary private secretaries.

(Source, i)

190279 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, #914 of 2158 🔗

Good on them!

190203 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #915 of 2158 🔗

.

190258 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #916 of 2158 🔗

And look how few MPs resisted that… tells us all we need to know..

191125 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Carrie, #917 of 2158 🔗

Wow, Labour, well done. Another great effort at being the opposition.

Does anyone else think that abstentions should be abolished?

Here’s my suggestion: each MP gets (say) 3 abstentions each year. Fail to vote one way or the other more times than that and boom: you lose your seat. Simples.

It’s bad enough that we have this joke of a democracy, without our “representatives” not even damn well voting.

Abstention is just the coward’s way out. If you can’t pick a side, get out.

190227 TyLean, replying to TyLean, 12, #918 of 2158 🔗

To anyone trundling out the “there’s no point” argument to dismiss the “conspiracy theorists”….. you have done very little research to come to that conclusion! Come join just one broadcast of UK Column News, and you will see that it’s the effort of a tiny army. It’s a news programme like no other that requests every episode that the viewers get stuck in.

Please watch just one episode before you dismiss us as a futile crazed mob. https://www.youtube.com/user/ukcolumn

190242 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to TyLean, #919 of 2158 🔗

Have they quoted this on UK column? https://thecanadianreport.ca/is-this-leaked-memo-really-trudeaus-covid-plan-for-2021-you-decide/
Or anything similar?
What do UK column see as the ‘solution’ or way out of this, ie what can we actually DO to stop it?

190246 ▶▶ matt, replying to TyLean, 10, #920 of 2158 🔗

To be clear, I’m not “trundling out” a line that “there’s no point”. I’m pointing out that endlessly criticising those of us who don’t believe in the conspiracy is not helpful, is divisive and is frankly really irritating. And given that, one way or another, all of us are committed to resisting all of the crap anyway, I don’t understand why it bothers you so much that we don’t “see” what you see, given that the tools we have are the tools we have, absolutely regardless of that the motive is. I’m not saying there’s no point, I’m not saying you should change your mind, I’m saying, stop having a go at me, because I am not your enemy here.

190426 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, #921 of 2158 🔗

It’s a commonplace phenomenon of making the best the enemy of the good, imo.

190472 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Mark, #922 of 2158 🔗

(I mean “the best” from their point of view, obviously. Not “the best” from my point of view or yours. Just realised that could be interpreted in a way I did not intend it!)

190412 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to TyLean, 1, #923 of 2158 🔗

Uk Column is the ONLY televised news I watch. Brilliant research, brilliant presenters and they tell it as it is. They have a twenty year history of exposing corruption and nefarious deeds so the Covid fraud is only the latest—albeit the biggest—story they are covering.

190453 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #924 of 2158 🔗

Same here. Excellent chaps. That reminds me – new episode today. Byeeee….

190759 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Harry hopkins, #925 of 2158 🔗

Yes, they are getting angry today!!!!

190230 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 9, #926 of 2158 🔗

Jeremy Vine just wasted thirty minutes nitpicking over the niceties of moving between one tier and another.
“Well I’m in tier two Jeremy and the funeral is in tier 3 on a Wednesday when I’ve got the kids from tier 1.. ”

Nobody said it’s all bollocks, ignore it and go do what you want.

One useful nugget, you can drive through Essex provided you don’t stop.

190236 ▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 3, #927 of 2158 🔗

My best friend lives in Cambridgeshire.
Her supermarket is in Essex,

190253 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to karenovirus, 2, #928 of 2158 🔗

I live in Essex. There are parts of the county where you wouldn’t want to stop!

190288 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to PoshPanic, 2, #929 of 2158 🔗

But parts of it are surprisingly bucolic and beautiful.

190328 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Will, #930 of 2158 🔗

Absolutely. I used to live in one of them.

190387 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to karenovirus, #931 of 2158 🔗

I overheard Sheila Fogarty on LBC discuss this shite. She recommends that if you live in Tier 3 and visit anywhere else you should act as if you are in Tier 3.

How about No.

190448 ▶▶ muzzle, replying to karenovirus, #932 of 2158 🔗

When I drive through Essex, I try not to stop anyway.

190232 Eddy, replying to Eddy, 3, #933 of 2158 🔗

Looks like Lancashire has been bought. This should be a nice little earner for the mayors / council leaders etc…

190274 ▶▶ bucky99, replying to Eddy, 1, #934 of 2158 🔗

I’m not sure what you could possibly be implying there, I have no doubt at all the latest taxpayer-funded handout will be spent appropriately and wisely…

190294 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Eddy, 2, #935 of 2158 🔗

We’ve been sold down the river for a for a few extra million quid. Pathetic really.

190413 ▶▶▶ wayno, replying to Tom Blackburn, #936 of 2158 🔗

We certainly have, but if you read the councils feedback on Lancs live, looks like they were going to impose even worse if we didnt cave, and here’s a big stack of cash to shut you up. The Gyms staying open has right royally pissed the scousers off, and you cant blame them.

190337 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Eddy, #937 of 2158 🔗

Same here in Essex. They appear to have already gone on a spending spree (lots on roads for the new green normal crap!).

190542 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Eddy, #938 of 2158 🔗

£2 per head for tier 3 isn’t it?

190240 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Dinger, 5, #940 of 2158 🔗

Seems German courts are better than UK ones – maybe Simon needs to use whatever evidence the Germans used to win their case?

190308 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Carrie, 2, #941 of 2158 🔗

I think it has also to do with how the court system works in Germany.
They are specialist courts who deal with legislation.
The judge in this case agreed with the restaurants that there is no evidence that the risk of infection in restaurants is high and specially not after 11pm.
Tbh, which “normal” person who has to work at 8am the next day is still partying at 11pm?

190383 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Silke David, #942 of 2158 🔗

You are clearly not a banker

190538 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Silke David, #943 of 2158 🔗

Apparently the judgment only applies to the bars/restaurants that brought the case – others have to stay closed. I predict more court cases brought by other bars and restaurants!

190881 ▶▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Carrie, #944 of 2158 🔗

A lawyer who talked about this on Klagepaten said it was not obvious from the press release if it applies to the complaining businesses only, but assumed that other businesses can refer to the ruling and should be ok.

190249 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 7, #946 of 2158 🔗

Hello Lockdown Sceptics & toby

‘It’s a massive claim; I think the pandemic is fundamentally over
Former chief scientific advisor with Pfizer Mike Yeadon has said he believes the coronavirus pandemic is drawing to a close, despite rising cases in parts of the UK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMlfxnCJppE

Truth about the claims scaring us all to death: Soaring infections, teeming hospital wards, and terrifying death rates… but do the numbers justifying crippling new lockdowns REALLY stand up to scrutiny ?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8845533/Coronavirus-Soaring-infections-death-rates-claims-justify-lockdowns.html

190341 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #947 of 2158 🔗

The Daily Mail article is great – this is well balanced and focussed on the facts.  Hopefully help people to wake up to the reality of the virus and realise that lockdowns and restrictions are not serving anyone.

190374 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #948 of 2158 🔗

Superb stuff from JBH. No excess deaths beyond anything we’ve seen in the last 30 years.

None.

Heart disease and pneumonia deaths down significantly. Most likely as they are often found hanging about in the Covid column.

Devastating stuff.

190254 John Ballard, replying to John Ballard, 17, #949 of 2158 🔗

I have posted this in a few places, the Daily Mail site today I got 10 to 1 upticks to down….I guess the down’s were lazy people who are not old or vulnerable but would sooner stay at home anyway !!!
Makes a lot of sense to me !!!
Instead of wasting hundreds of billions trying to save perfectly healthy people who are not at risk under the age of 70, they should let the country get back up and running, while helping the vulnerable and pensioners. For the money wasted on advertising to tell us to wash our hands and paying young healthy people to wear a mask and stay home they could; Double the pension for a year, pay all pensioners heating and electric, give them a free food supermarket delivery, free tv licence etc. Same for the vulnerable for 12 months. Then IF they want to stay home they are well looked after, but I imagine many will still want to live a life and get out like my elderly parents, but they would have a choice. Then schools stay open we stop trying to scare the public for something with the same death rate as flu and everyone gets to enjoy their life again while saving the economy. 550,000 people die every year in England and Wales so far with covid has killed less than the 17-18 flu season!!!

190260 ▶▶ Crazy Times, replying to John Ballard, 12, #950 of 2158 🔗

It’s amazing to see how they can find endless pots money when they want to. Something like 3,000 pensioners die every year because they are cold. Yes, cold. They can’t afford to put the heating on and freeze to death. They couldn’t ever seem to find the money to save those lives though could they?

190297 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Crazy Times, 3, #951 of 2158 🔗

Criminals

190268 ▶▶ RickH, replying to John Ballard, 8, #952 of 2158 🔗

Thing is – in terms of the ‘vulnerable’ – of whom I am one, the incidence of Covid is so low that I’m quite capable of protecting myself, and am currently more concerned about ‘flu – a threat faced every year.

Yes – I would not want to catch either. But I’m not willing to accede to the death of normal life in order to avoid that degree of risk!

190313 ▶▶ Neil Hartley, replying to John Ballard, 3, #953 of 2158 🔗

I hate that expression “covid has killed”. Some yes, but not 50,000+. When the majority of those 50K people died, there was no way of dying of anything else once a positive test occurred. Then, in July, a 28-day window was introduced which still meant that getting hit by a bus and killed within 28 days of a positive test is counted as a covid death. What is the real number of people killed by Covid-19? Well, in England, of the 30K “covid deaths” less than 1,400 people had no co-morbidities. Of those, some may still have been hit by a bus or committed suicide. “Covid has killed” how many? A thousand otherwise healthy people?

190256 TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to TheOriginalBlackPudding, 9, #954 of 2158 🔗

Here in Lancashire, we are apparently moving to Tier 3.
I’ve no idea what Tier 3 means in practice, don’t want to know and shall live my life my way.

And government have generously bestowed 12 million quid of our money upon us. Which gives the Labour councils the opportunity to boast to the gullible how much they have screwed out of the wicked Conservatives in our interest. So a self-inflicted injury to the foot for the government, methinks,

190265 ▶▶ l835, replying to TheOriginalBlackPudding, 3, #955 of 2158 🔗

Or put it another way, the council sold out.

190307 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to l835, 1, #956 of 2158 🔗

Will go to the councillors’ benevolent fund, aka Christmas party!

190309 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to TheOriginalBlackPudding, #957 of 2158 🔗

They’ve given us £10 each. Woohoo. That’s three pints! Oh. Ohhh.

190362 ▶▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to Cicatriz, 3, #958 of 2158 🔗

Shhh! – they’ll claw the money back. Sage had based the calculation on the price of a pint in London! 🙂

190376 ▶▶ wayno, replying to TheOriginalBlackPudding, #959 of 2158 🔗

Actually according to lancs live its 42 million, they wanted 58, the gov offered 12. All the local councils are coming out say we got bullied into it, either do it and get cash or dont and we will force harsher lockdowns anyway.

190398 ▶▶▶ wayno, replying to wayno, #960 of 2158 🔗

snapshot from lancs live

190263 Cheezilla, 8, #961 of 2158 🔗

Interesting comment in the DM:

Every year from September to about April, 1 or 2 wards open up in our hospital.They are called The winter pressure wards were patients with winter related illnesses like flu and chest conditions are treated all on one ward.a nurse from each ward in the hospital usually goes up there for a month and they all hate it because they are badly run and not well equipped.It doesn’t change year in year out the only thing that has changed is the name,the winter pressure ward is now called The COVID ward.

190273 Tee Ell, replying to Tee Ell, 22, #962 of 2158 🔗

I’ve written a refutation to Michael Yeadon’s article, it’s called “What SAGE has got right”, pasted below:

190284 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Tee Ell, 3, #963 of 2158 🔗

Very good, subtle yet effective.

190314 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Tee Ell, 1, #964 of 2158 🔗

I suppose their pharma shares went up in value?

190348 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Tee Ell, 2, #965 of 2158 🔗

In my opinion SAGE has got between 0 and 3000 things right but I can’t be more specific than that.

190363 ▶▶▶ bucky99, replying to Achilles, 1, #966 of 2158 🔗

A damn sight narrower than anything coming out of SAGE!

Bunch of incompetents.

190409 ▶▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to bucky99, #967 of 2158 🔗

Self-serving, narrow-minded, arrogant incompetents.

190375 ▶▶▶ PatrickF, replying to Achilles, 1, #968 of 2158 🔗

SAGE have proved that the earth is flat.

190415 ▶▶ Jo, replying to Tee Ell, #969 of 2158 🔗

Ha Ha! That’s a plagiarism from a chapter in Corona: False Alarm? !! Under section on benefits of the lockdown! (If I remember rightly, my book is doing the rounds…)

190285 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 1, #970 of 2158 🔗
190304 ▶▶ DRW, replying to p02099003, #971 of 2158 🔗

Yet the tide is apparently turning.

190317 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to p02099003, #972 of 2158 🔗

I feel sorry for them but interested to see what happens with diverging policies between nations and regions

190332 ▶▶ annie, replying to p02099003, 1, #973 of 2158 🔗

And that will really work wonders.

190339 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to annie, 1, #974 of 2158 🔗

PS. There is a positive avalanche of sceptical comments under the BBC article.

190364 ▶▶▶▶ wayno, replying to annie, 1, #975 of 2158 🔗

It is a sea of sceptics.

190369 ▶▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to annie, 1, #976 of 2158 🔗

Just had a look, you’re right. No one believes this tosh anymore.

190445 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to thinkaboutit, 1, #977 of 2158 🔗

Even my mother-in-law, coronaphobic even before it got trendy, is now happily visiting us with kisses and hugs and a conspiratorial “Remember, I’m not actually here…”

190550 ▶▶ l835, replying to p02099003, #978 of 2158 🔗

The pre announcement softening up begins….

190311 mrjoeaverage, replying to mrjoeaverage, 11, #979 of 2158 🔗

So cross! Our child’s school in Essex has now said that in all areas of the school apart from the classroom, masks must be worn! What do we do?! I’m minded to email the headmaster and say I will hold them personally responsible should masks be found in future to be detrimental to health. Not that this will achieve anything. This is not a good day!

190315 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to mrjoeaverage, #980 of 2158 🔗

Don’t they accept the exemptions at schools?
In Germany, they are fighting them tooth and nail, despite needing to possess a medical certificate for an exemption anyway.

190324 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Jay Berger, #981 of 2158 🔗

Have you seen any videos from Klagepaten?
They had a very good, though complicated, video about advice for refusing face coverings in shops yesterday.

190329 ▶▶ CGL, replying to mrjoeaverage, #982 of 2158 🔗

I tried that – they don’t give a shit. Juat following orders.

190330 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to mrjoeaverage, 3, #983 of 2158 🔗

Tell them your children are exempt? I’d be angry too. Personally I wouldn’t get into a battle about liability, place the onus of evidence on them.

190333 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to mrjoeaverage, 7, #984 of 2158 🔗

Ask him what his risk assessment is for children who are asthmatic, claustrophobic, anxious, have sinus problems or difficulty hearing. I’m sure you could add others to the list. Does he have procedures for not making these children excluded ( disability discrimination) or feel excluded ( hurty feelings, he’s probably woke)?
Does his risk assessment include increased strep throat, flu, pneumonia, impetigo and so on?
Make him earn his mask zealotry.

190529 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to thinkaboutit, 1, #985 of 2158 🔗

Maybe mention the 3 children in Germany that have died from wearing masks?

190597 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, #986 of 2158 🔗

Don’t forget those in school kids in China as well.

190353 ▶▶ bucky99, replying to mrjoeaverage, 3, #987 of 2158 🔗

Best place to get info on what to try is likely to be UsForThem.

190432 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to mrjoeaverage, 1, #988 of 2158 🔗

Exemption surely.

190440 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, #989 of 2158 🔗

Plenty of evidence now that constant mask wearing can be dangerous. For example:

https://www.globalresearch.ca/medical-doctor-warns-bacterial-pneumonias-rise-mask-wearing/5725848

I managed to negotiate with my daughter”s primary school headteacher for my child to use child-friendly wipes in school instead of the 90% alcohol gunk the schoolkids are meant to use.

190503 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to mrjoeaverage, #990 of 2158 🔗

Your child is exempt – inform them of that and make sure your child understand why and how to manage snide remarks from staff and children

190524 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to mrjoeaverage, 1, #991 of 2158 🔗

If child is under 11 then it is against the Government guidelines

190527 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to mrjoeaverage, #992 of 2158 🔗

Can you ask to see their latest risk assessment? They should have one…they can’t just use the BBC as a source of ‘guidance’…

190658 ▶▶ stewart, replying to mrjoeaverage, #993 of 2158 🔗

Ask him to please guarantee that wearing a mask will have no negative health effect on your child. If he refuses to guarantee it, which should be the case if he isn’t a lunatic or if he doesnt reply at all send your child in with a note saying you dont authorise a mask on your child until you receive a guarantee that there will be no adverse physical effects.

190312 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 4, #994 of 2158 🔗

The Xhosa cattle killing story is very powerful and blends in nicely with CJ Hopkins latest piece on the characteristics of a Cult.
Both are perfect proof of Voltaire’s saying: “Those who can make you believe absurdities, can (and will) make you commit atrocities.”

I think sharing that story with lockdown, Mask and testing zealot friends might make an impact on some, especially on those who have started to see some of the contradictions, ineffectiveness es, disproportionate etc., more than discussing the Corona numbers and facts with them.

190321 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #995 of 2158 🔗

Also Ivor Cummings analogy of the Tiger Horn touches on the use of myth and magical science to deceive

https://youtu.be/K_pFoaUiZoE

190318 Silke David, replying to Silke David, 7, #996 of 2158 🔗

Saw on YT a stream from a testing centre in Germany, which was put up quickly to test children from a day care centre. The local Querdenken and parent group had organised a demonstration. Police present, but no hinderance for filming.
What a difference to GB!
I am considering more and more often to go back to my native Germany when this is over, as I do not want to live in this dictatorship.
I came to England as I perceived this to be a more liberal country.

190340 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Silke David, 2, #997 of 2158 🔗

A friend said to me a long time ago that Germany has a lot of rules, but in general the system of rules is designed so that life is easier, better and more civilised. Too often, the amorphous verbiage of “English freedoms” becomes an excuse to be as rude and objectionable as you want, while the lack of a proper constitution allows government to behave as badly as it wants, subject only to the distinctly self-interested scrutiny of parliament. The sentimental twaddle about the unwritten constitution is now coming home to roost,

190525 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, #998 of 2158 🔗

Sweden is very similar.

190650 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, #999 of 2158 🔗

The system of governance in our country relies very heavily on everyone being reasonable and common sense prevailing.

It leaves room for sensible application but at the same time leaves itself open to abuse.

Johnson and his people are clearly taking advantage of the system to rule in an authoritarian fashion.

190344 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Silke David, 2, #1000 of 2158 🔗

It appears it was all perception unfortunately. Now a challenge to that liberty has come along we have been found wanting.

190358 ▶▶ bucky99, replying to Silke David, 2, #1001 of 2158 🔗

We used to be…

190400 ▶▶ Jo, replying to Silke David, 1, #1002 of 2158 🔗

I wish I still had my dual nationality (which I gave up to get a British passport).

190326 DRW, #1003 of 2158 🔗

Accidentally caught the Ministry of Truth headlines on downstairs. Just the standard sPiKiNg CaSeS hysterical rubbish, don’t even remember anything but still enough to make me nauseous. No doubt they’re pushing/softening us up for national LD II.

190334 NorthumbrianNomad, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 7, #1004 of 2158 🔗

“Court overturns order to shut Berlin’s bars and restaurants from 11pm because ‘it is not apparent’ it would help fight coronavirus“
At least some countries have actual grown-up and independent judiciaries

190420 ▶▶ DRW, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, #1005 of 2158 🔗

How silly, everyone knows covid’s prime operating hours start at 10pm!

190431 ▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to DRW, 1, #1006 of 2158 🔗

Their 11pm is our 10pm. Covid understands international time zones as well as knowing the difference between queueing and siting at tables 😂

190530 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to thinkaboutit, #1007 of 2158 🔗

It really is clever, isn’t it? And yet, pants when it comes to IT. 🙂

190520 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, #1008 of 2158 🔗

Oddly the judgment only applies to the bars that brought the case – the others have to stay shut… Am guessing other bars may start cases now, knowing they have a high chance of winning!

190342 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #1009 of 2158 🔗

Brace, brace, brace. Doris is apparently giving an update in presentation at 4pm. National lockdown imminent – he normally flip-flops within 24 hours?

190349 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #1010 of 2158 🔗

It is going to be to ‘justify’ the Northern tiers apparently.

190355 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Sarigan, #1011 of 2158 🔗

Just saw it as a headline on Sky, but without any details as of yet.

190350 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1012 of 2158 🔗

Just in time for half term.

190361 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1013 of 2158 🔗

Guess that means there won’t be any toilet roll in the shops by tomorrow.

190365 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1014 of 2158 🔗

Just read about Khan promising to shut down TfL at weekend unless govt cough up £1bn. Between that and Burnham, plus increasing dissent from his own party, he might well just go full kamikaze at this point and take us all down at the same time.

190496 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1015 of 2158 🔗

Not yet – national lockdown will probably be announced in the evening like the March one was (8pm) when most people are at home in front of the TV anyway.

190352 NorthumbrianNomad, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 23, #1016 of 2158 🔗

Just want to say, to anyone on here that is feeling overwhelmed: I made a conscious decision today not to doomscroll and not to let myself read the news. Just permitted myself this brief look at this site and the Spectator, to make sure the sky hadn’t fallen in,and now I’ll go away again and enjoy my Friday night. I feel much better. We need to look after ourselves.

190360 ▶▶ CGL, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 4, #1017 of 2158 🔗

You are absolutely right of course.
I am now very much looking forward to this weekend thanks to people on this site anyway.

190378 ▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 1, #1018 of 2158 🔗

Quite right!
The sun is tentatively poking its head out here, so I’m off out for a good walk this afternoon. I’ll forget all the rubbish and let fresh air and exercise reset the mood-switch.

190393 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 3, #1019 of 2158 🔗

I did exactly the same. I can’t begin my morning any more reading the ”news”papers. This is enough for me for the next few days.
I don’t want to be screamed at and told what to think by some cheap hacks who think they know it all.

190419 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 1, #1020 of 2158 🔗

Yes, we should go seek out comedy which is nature’s healing. For a bit of both I would suggest the south park specials to anyone:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=379oevm2fho&ab_channel=SouthParkStudios

190485 ▶▶ Edward, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, #1021 of 2158 🔗

After my week’s avoidance of MSM news at the beginning of October, I’m continuing it though not so strictly. I don’t even know or care what tier my area is in!

190615 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Edward, #1022 of 2158 🔗

Heh. Misread that as don’t even know or care what tier my arse is in!

190356 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 20, #1023 of 2158 🔗

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54566566

Fortnight Covid ‘fire-break’ lockdown within days in Wales
————————

I’m so fed up of these ridiculous slogans. Fire-break/circuit-break/break wind. Who cares. Call it what it is – it’s a f***ing lockdown.

All these regional lockdowns are also going to eventually force Johnson’s hand into plunging England into one as well. I give it a week. It’ll be real crunch time during these next few weeks and I predict this second lockdown will be deeply unpopular. Buckle up, the next few weeks and months will be interesting.

190367 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to Poppy, 6, #1024 of 2158 🔗

Yes indeed, Poppy. This patronising language is getting bloody infuriating. Boris loves it – because he thinks we’re all poorly educated proles anyway.

190371 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Banjones, 4, #1025 of 2158 🔗

Most of the population are. There’s a huge lack of any critical thinking ability.

190370 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Poppy, 1, #1026 of 2158 🔗

Unfortunately, it’s going to be years. The lockstep scenario document which seems to being used as some sort of blueprint suggests it’d be 15 years before the public got the arse with authoritarianism.

190515 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to leggy, #1027 of 2158 🔗

This is Canada’s plan – worryingly the Uk seems to have started following it… https://thecanadianreport.ca/is-this-leaked-memo-really-trudeaus-covid-plan-for-2021-you-decide/

190635 ▶▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to Carrie, #1028 of 2158 🔗

I don’t automatically write off all “conspiracy theories”, but this one looks very fake. It’s too … blatant.

190386 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Poppy, 5, #1029 of 2158 🔗

Just ignore it. It’s what I’m doing already.

190406 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1030 of 2158 🔗

Seconded.

190414 ▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1031 of 2158 🔗

We can ignore it all we want but once it’s in place there is nothing we are allowed to do.

190555 ▶▶▶ bucky99, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1032 of 2158 🔗

Ditto

190389 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Poppy, 7, #1033 of 2158 🔗

They should use the correct terms…… house arrest, unlawful imprisonment, detention without trial, internment, torture, murder, genocide, crimes against humanity, waging unlawful war, child abuse, treason, etc

190392 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Poppy, 2, #1034 of 2158 🔗

We’ve hoped things will become unpopular before, yet the sheep just keep complying.

190458 ▶▶ Steve, replying to Poppy, 3, #1035 of 2158 🔗

No call it what it actually is. House arrest.

190623 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Poppy, 1, #1036 of 2158 🔗

Johnson’s problem is that he is trapped. If he goes for lockdown, he’s doing what Starmer said and once again will have dithered and left it late. And if he doesn’t he’s going to be held responsible for deaths, however few they may be. Someone will claim they could have been less.

Can’t say I’m not enjoying seeing the bastard cornered.

190372 Alice, replying to Alice, 1, #1037 of 2158 🔗

This is what it’s all about, isn’t it? Congestion charge…

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8847025/London-Tube-train-bus-staff-told-prepare-total-SHUTDOWN.html

I don’t think I’ve ever agreed with Ghengis Khan on anything, but this time I do.

190508 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Alice, #1038 of 2158 🔗

Very concerning that they are planning on stopping free travel for children and elderly, according to the article..

190534 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Alice, #1039 of 2158 🔗

How will the workers get toothier jobs? Nurses, doctors, care staff, essential IT staff keeping our banks going, builders, plumbers etc

190384 wat tyler, replying to wat tyler, 1, #1040 of 2158 🔗

Anyone who hasn’t yet read the Mike Yeadon article in full please do and pass on to everyone you know through any medium available .He puts the points across so well and explains things in very simple terms which the lay person can understand . He is by far the best communicator of the sceptic message .

190477 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to wat tyler, #1041 of 2158 🔗

Is it on any other site than this? As soon as I share anything from LS, I get conspiracy nut thrown back at me because of the site name.

190504 ▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to Tom Blackburn, #1042 of 2158 🔗

Yes, I agree that this is a problem. It might help a little to introduce it with Dr. Yeadon’s CV.

190557 ▶▶▶▶ maggie may, replying to mattghg, 1, #1043 of 2158 🔗

You can always copy and paste it into a new document and share that, including the information about Dr Yeadon

190868 ▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Tom Blackburn, #1044 of 2158 🔗

I don’t know if it’s on other site’s but as someone says below you can copy and paste . I am not a tech expert so people however you can pass it on please do . Also if you want us to win please ignore the mayo rambling below ,it’s clearly disturbed by Mr Yeadon and wants to rubbish him but has no evidence as usual .

191056 ▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to wat tyler, -1, #1045 of 2158 🔗

Also if you want us to win please ignore the mayo rambling below ,it’s clearly disturbed by Mr Yeadon and wants to rubbish him but has no evidence

It’s Yeadon who needs to provide evidence and he hasn’t provided any. That’s exactly my point. Papers which ‘suggest’ a wide range of possible prior immunity are useless.

There is clearly a large proportion of the population who remain susceptible to this virus.

191227 ▶▶▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Mayo, 1, #1046 of 2158 🔗

So says you ,he says different .He’s on twitter go and argue it out with him .It’s pointless arguing with me as iv’e laid my cards on the table long ago .I never supported the lockdown at the beginning and i wont support one now as far as i’m concerned no one has ever proved a lockdown anywhere saved a single life .The very idea that any government can treat people like children and lock them up on a whim is so deeply offensive to me that even if in some impossible way it could be proven to save life i would never go along with it, because at the end of the day you live and die free or you don’t live at all .

190657 ▶▶ Mayo, replying to wat tyler, -1, #1047 of 2158 🔗

Anyone who hasn’t yet read the Mike Yeadon article in full please do

Why? He says nothing that we don’t already know – most of it, as yet, unproven. Yeadon was calling the end of the pandemic 6 weeks ago – as were several other sceptic bloggers and tweeters.

The bottom line is that it hasn’t ended and we still have no idea what level of immunity we have in the UK.

In a nutshell, Mike Yeadon has provided absolutely nothing on which we could reliable base policy.

190388 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 10, #1048 of 2158 🔗

Many thanks to the fellow sceptics earlier who have helped with my ongoing complaint with a butcher. Based on your suggestions, here’s the reply I am planning to send, is there anything you think I should add or subtract?

Dear Mr XXXXX,

Thank you for your reply.

One thing I have found most disappointing during this crisis is that good customer service has gone out of the window in the name of “safety.” There was no need for your staff to be rude and they should not be behaving like people from certain countries in Europe during the 1930s to the 1940s who forced people of a certain religion to wear some form of ID and in more recent times from the 1950s to the 1980s demanding citizens to show their papers. The regulations clearly state businesses should not need to ask for proof of exemption and I am not obliged to show you my lanyard or wear it.

May I also remind you that the actions of your staff yesterday could be construed as a breach of the Equality Act 2010 which takes precedence over the Coronavirus Act 2020 and the statutory notices which includes the wearing of masks or face coverings. Legally a person who is exempt should not be challenged for proof, or treated differently from any other customer as it is clear discrimination.

Below I have attached an exemptions toolkit from the laworfiction.com website that sets out the actual law on face covering exemptions – which also apply to staff as well as customers if they meet the criteria for being exempt – and that succinctly and clearly explains who can challenge a person not wearing face covering, what they are legally required to answer, how the challenged person can progress the challenge to court and the fines to businesses and persons who do the challenging:

https://www.laworfiction.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Face-Covering-Exemption-Notice-with-Law-Explained-24-July-2020.pdf

Please do not use “incumbent on the general public to work with retailers and understand the stresses and guidelines that they are working with” as an excuse for your staff’s poor behaviour. I work in visitor services and have I and my colleagues used that reason as an excuse with regards to a similar complaint brought against my team you can be sure that we would be subjected to disciplinary procedures or worse handed our P45s!

Once again thank you for your reply and I look forward to your response to this.

Yours sincerely,

etc, etc…..

190401 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #1049 of 2158 🔗

Please don’t compare yourself to holocaust victims, that analogy will go nowhere. Best end the first paragraph after “rude.”

Second paragraph perfect.

Third paragraph perfect.

Last paragraph, off-topic, better removed.

You should end with the letter with the kind of response you would like. Do you want an apology? An acknowledgement that you can do about your business maskless? Let them know what they can do to make you happy.

Other than that, go get ’em!

190410 ▶▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Recusant, 3, #1050 of 2158 🔗

Agreed – leave out anything to do with 1930s and 40s – concentrate on the employees rude and disrespectful behaviour and their breach of the Equality Act. Likewise the last paragraph distracts from the point. Leaving out those words will make this succint and to the point. Otherwise the rest is spot-on.

190547 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Ozzie, 2, #1051 of 2158 🔗

Thanks to you both. Have made the changes and sent off the email

190762 ▶▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Ozzie, 1, #1052 of 2158 🔗

We should all sign the petition:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/331430
Repeal the decision to implement compulsory face coverings in English shops.

190441 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Recusant, 2, #1053 of 2158 🔗

Please don’t compare yourself to holocaust victims,”

Absolutely correct.

Not yet.

190540 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Recusant, #1054 of 2158 🔗

Great advice.

190407 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #1055 of 2158 🔗

The butcher says it is “i ncumbent on the general public to work with retailers and understand the stresses and guidelines that they are working with”. I would put to them that it is incumbent on retailers to understand the guidelines in relation to exemptions and the stresses that those who are exempt are dealing with.

190546 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #1056 of 2158 🔗

in addition i suggest you also include the link to the government page and mention the section When you do not need to wear a face covering
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own

190603 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Victoria, #1057 of 2158 🔗

I did send that in my initial email. Actually I have sent my reply and it was just dismissed.

Never mind. I will never shop there again.

190391 Allen, 10, #1058 of 2158 🔗

This is not going to stop until people make it stop. These governments know full well that “Covid” is being used as cover for crashing the economies in the Western world. There is not now and never has been a “pandemic”- that is all Kabuki theater to disguise the reality of rapid economic decline brought on by the Ponzi Schemes of financial institutions over the past few decades.

Another update from http:// euromomo.eu , another week with no excess mortality in W. Europe. The impact of Covid upon overall mortality in these nations has been non-existent for 21 straights weeks.

https://twitter.com/Humble_Analysis/status/1316925120762490881

While deaths have been at or below normal for months, “cases” have risen to record levels in Europe. Do we need to wait “two more weeks”? It’s already been 13 straight weeks of rising cases…

………

It should be evident by now that Covid is no longer the killer it once was (My Add- it never was- the policies in nursing homes was the killer) in Europe – every nation that saw a “first wave” has seen CFRs plummet to 1/20 the levels seen in the Spring.

https://twitter.com/Humble_Analysis/status/1316925701958864898

190394 Banjones, replying to Banjones, 5, #1059 of 2158 🔗

We really HAVE to stop referring to them all as ”cases”. ”Cases” is a word meant to terrify even more the already Terminally Terrified. They think ”bodies in the streets”, ”dying people in corridors” and so on.

190403 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Banjones, #1060 of 2158 🔗

I agree. What instead? Positive PCRs? Positives?

190428 ▶▶▶ Hieronimusb, replying to Mr Dee, #1061 of 2158 🔗

Unconfirmed cases.

190747 ▶▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Hieronimusb, #1062 of 2158 🔗

”Unconfirmed (and possibly false positive) tests!” (Bit of a mouthful though!)

190646 ▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #1063 of 2158 🔗

Fucking great big fat wrapping lies

190745 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Mr Dee, #1064 of 2158 🔗

Dr Lee said that ”…..the only way to identify Covid is with a lab test, positive tests have been equated with positive ”cases”….. We now know that 90 per cent or more of people have Covid asymptomatically. A positive test is clearly not a positive ”case”……”

190425 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to Banjones, #1065 of 2158 🔗

Dr John Lee’s article in the Telegraph (12 October) pointed out that ”infections” or ”positive test results” are not ”cases”
(I’d copy the paragraph here, but it seems I’m not allowed to.)

190501 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Banjones, 1, #1066 of 2158 🔗

You are right. However the Governments over the world chose this ‘Cases’ terminology for exactly that reason – to keep people terrified.

Cases = Positive PCR tests = 1) about 80% are false positives and this include asymptomatic 2) people that have a virus infection with symptoms mostly mild 3) people hospitalised – a small minority of this could die

190396 Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, 2, #1067 of 2158 🔗

Just found this comment below Ross Clark’s excellent article in the DM. The final sentence amused me. I assume that the comment is from a troll or is a weak attempt at cynicism. It had 255 downticks.

“Hiw does this paper get away with spreading such lies? Wholly irresponsible and pandering yet again to deniers and Covidiots. We must simply lock down society now and ride this thing out at home, how ever long this takes, regardless of mental well being, loneliness, the economy and jobs. I am sorry but this is fact. Stay Home Protect the Virus Save the NHS.”

190427 ▶▶ Jo, replying to Ozzie, 3, #1068 of 2158 🔗

I quite like that… protect the virus! Trouble is, irony might not reach the less than sceptical.

190459 ▶▶ Tiberius, replying to Ozzie, #1069 of 2158 🔗

That has to have been written by Hand On Cock. Although I’m surprised he didn’t also repeat that cancer patients will have to wait.

190502 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Ozzie, 3, #1070 of 2158 🔗

I think this is a sarcastic comment, surely?

190549 ▶▶ bucky99, replying to Ozzie, #1071 of 2158 🔗

Made me laugh, nice one!

190399 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1072 of 2158 🔗

Wow, our local Labour council leader seems to be sticking up for his electorate!

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/kirklees-crunch-tier-3-talks-19108852

Unfortunately, if he were to go by the (typical!) comments, we’d be in tier 3 already.

190411 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1073 of 2158 🔗

I’m in the same borough as you know. Don’t worry about a few comments (and there are only 13 on the entire article) . I think the public mood is shifting, slowly, but decisively.

190402 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 8, #1074 of 2158 🔗

Amazon Introduces The Amazon One To Pay With Your Palm
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ilkerkoksal/2020/09/29/amazon-introduces-the-amazon-one-to-pay-with-your-palm/#:~:text=Amazon%20One%20uses%20the%20palm,pay%20by%20hovering%20their%20hand .

Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name.”

190498 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #1075 of 2158 🔗

Might be fun to have a “pay with your arse” method.

190423 Paul, replying to Paul, 17, #1076 of 2158 🔗

I wonder if there will ever be an award for the business that treats it’s customers the most bizarrely ?.
My nephew had his car taken to a local independent garage for repairs,he called them yesterday to see if it was ready,yes it was,but hold your horses,there is a special system you have to abide by before you can have it back.
Firstly he had to pay by card over the phone,they will not accept cash and won’t do card payments in person at the garage.
Secondly he was told customers must not enter the garage customer reception area under any circumstances.
He was then given a pin number to access his key and receipt which would be in a special numbered box in the car park.He was told he would not being having any face to face contact with any garage staff.
When he collected his car,during opening hours,the reception had the door was locked and the blinds were all down and the workshop doors were all locked but all the staff were inside and working.
What a disgraceful way to treat customers,the biggest joke is the fact that the garage owner goes to the same pub as my uncle several nights a week and mixes with numerous different people every time.

190439 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Paul, 7, #1077 of 2158 🔗

Get a photo of him in the pub and put it on social media, alongside a list of his stupid rules.

190462 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Paul, 2, #1078 of 2158 🔗

I hope the customers in the pub rip into him for the nonsense rules. Unfortunately though, most guys in the pub know absolutely nothing out with their football team.

190491 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 5, #1079 of 2158 🔗

Bloody crazy. I am, at the moment, listening in to two women waffling on about 2 metre exclusion zones in the school they clearly work in. They have also discussed masks and how they have two – one in the car and one in their handbags so they are never without.

Is that your uncle Bert, Paul? (btw, BID zoom meeting going on as I type for businesses in Saffron Walden on how they are going to cope with this Two Tier crap, or whatever the hell it is called).

190585 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Paul, 1, #1080 of 2158 🔗

Err, change garage ?

190429 Chris Hume, replying to Chris Hume, 26, #1081 of 2158 🔗

It’s turning. Reading local social media posts in Essex and more and more people calling it out. Ewan Duffy said same in Ireland. I see and hear the same from northern England as well. The more they do, the worse it gets for them. Furlough ends this month. We are reaching the end game. Keep plugging the message. We are winning.

190444 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Chris Hume, 6, #1082 of 2158 🔗

End of furlough is the litmus test. A fully crashed economy and it’s too late.

190454 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cicatriz, 7, #1083 of 2158 🔗

And come run up to Christmas we’ll see the beginning of large scale redundancies and bankruptcies.

190490 ▶▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #1084 of 2158 🔗

Especially if the govt ‘cancels’ Christmas via restrictions and all the revenue that would normally come in during that season from shopping, events, visiting family etc just goes down the drain.

190608 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Poppy, 1, #1085 of 2158 🔗

Agree. A lot of Christmas events have already been cancelled in London such as Winter Wonderland. Some pantos and concerts will go ahead but I seriously doubt that they will draw in the punters.

190452 ▶▶ Will, replying to Chris Hume, 8, #1086 of 2158 🔗

I agree, we are getting closer and closer to the end of this nonsense. My call is Johnson will sack Hancock and SAGE on Bonfire night.

190605 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Will, #1087 of 2158 🔗

Maybe. But Mr Toad – the prime author will still be there.

190619 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Chris Hume, 2, #1088 of 2158 🔗

Had a high level Zoom call yesterday with heads of travel in the UK and they advised that councils and travel companies been told to prepare for vaccine rollout in November!

190655 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sarigan, #1089 of 2158 🔗

I read that somewhere else too, but can’t remember where…

190430 James Marker, replying to James Marker, 9, #1090 of 2158 🔗

Good to see a number of newspapers heaping scorn on Hancock today. I would be tempted to call this utter clown a crypto socialist, or even a WEF fifth columnist, were it not for the fact that he now barely disguises the fact he is much closer to Labour than the Conservatives. Really, Starmer has no need for his Shadow Health Secretary.

190435 ▶▶ concrete68, replying to James Marker, 1, #1091 of 2158 🔗

Delusional. Everything bad = must be socialist. Good things = true conservatism.

190582 ▶▶▶ James Marker, replying to concrete68, 2, #1092 of 2158 🔗

Just to be clear:  I’m no cheerleader for the Conservative Party, but true conservatives do value personal freedom whereas many socialists don’t. In socialist societies, people tend to become enslaved to the state – as in the NHS is not there to save the people but the people are there to save the NHS.

190497 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to James Marker, 1, #1093 of 2158 🔗

Can we ‘help’ this process along a little, by posting pictures of Hancock with Klaus Schwab and/or others associated with the WEF and mentioning the great reset? Might wake a few people up; hopefully at least some people will google ‘global reset’…

190616 ▶▶ RickH, replying to James Marker, #1094 of 2158 🔗

Oh dear. Such wishing.

No. Whatever Starmer, or ‘socialism’ is (crypto or not) Hancock is a right wing Tory.

By definition.

Get over it.

190629 ▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to RickH, #1095 of 2158 🔗

He’s a thick cunt who needs killing

190803 ▶▶▶ James Marker, replying to RickH, 1, #1096 of 2158 🔗

Rick, believe me, a right-wing Tory would not go around with an NHS badge pinned to his lapel or show deference to the HuffPost.

190433 Basics, replying to Basics, 11, #1097 of 2158 🔗

Whodda thunk it.

‘Unclear’ whether Edinburgh bars and restaurants will reopen after two weeks, says Nicola Sturgeon.

Unclear if the politicians have the balls to cull the hospitality sector back to the stone age.

190434 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Basics, 8, #1098 of 2158 🔗

The breweries should sue.

190467 ▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to thinkaboutit, 1, #1099 of 2158 🔗

Everyone losing their job or business should sue.

190541 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 4, #1100 of 2158 🔗

Fuck her I say, someone has to have the balls to open a pub, no gimp masks bullshit distancing or T&T, music the lot. Pack the place out, make a fortune. If the old bill turn up so be it, everyone stands together.

190544 ▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to stefarm, 3, #1101 of 2158 🔗

Not literally obviously metaphorically

190892 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to stefarm, #1102 of 2158 🔗

This year’s been bad enough as it is!

190666 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to stefarm, 5, #1103 of 2158 🔗

Exactly. What are they going to do, arrest everyone? The whole hospitality industry should rise up against this (the industry that accounts for just 2-3% of infections).

190450 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Basics, 5, #1104 of 2158 🔗

I think that’s the plan – a wholesale Carthaginian destruction of the hospitality sector which will set them back to the Stone Age.

Museums & heritage will be next.

190499 ▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #1105 of 2158 🔗

Apparently Museums and heritage are all waycist and white supremacist anyway. Coincidentally they have been attacked from other directions so I suppose we don’t miss them when they are gone?

190628 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to KBuchanan, 1, #1106 of 2158 🔗

Indeed. They’re being destroyed by BLM and such however lockdowns, social distancing and masks will be the final nail in the coffin.

190457 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Basics, 2, #1107 of 2158 🔗

She’s an utter disgrace. Anything you can do Boris I can do better.

190470 ▶▶ jb12, replying to Basics, #1108 of 2158 🔗

It was obvious that this would be the case, I just don’t know why people can’t see they take in drips and drabs rather than all at once. The end goal is the same either way.

190692 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Basics, #1109 of 2158 🔗

So. Bloody. Obvious.

190437 Crazy Times, replying to Crazy Times, 8, #1110 of 2158 🔗

Probably already posted, but in case not, this is a brilliant, direct and public takedown of Sadiq Khan about the recent protests.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvZtgGHAs8o

190455 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Crazy Times, 3, #1111 of 2158 🔗

That is brilliant. Please all watch and share.

190599 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Crazy Times, #1112 of 2158 🔗

Yes. Highly revealing. And pathetic even at he level of basic political jousting.

190614 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Crazy Times, #1113 of 2158 🔗

So good to watch. He also reminds me of Rowan Atkinson for some reason.

190877 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Sarigan, #1114 of 2158 🔗

It reminded me of the Officer Savage sketch!

https://youtu.be/BO8EpfyCG2Y

190442 chaos, replying to chaos, 2, #1115 of 2158 🔗

Holy shit.. the man that introduced the diversity Bond villain and rubber fetisher Klaus Shwab (WEF Great Reset) to Treason Maybe and Chuck Boris was…. Matt Wanksock!!! Way back in 2017…

190489 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to chaos, #1116 of 2158 🔗

Yes, and Nicole Junkermann too..

190446 DRW, replying to DRW, 3, #1117 of 2158 🔗

Daniel Kahneman, Covid-19 and the Cascade of Fear: https://mitzner.substack.com/p/daniel-kahneman-covid-19-and-the
Uses concepts from behavioural economist Daniel Kahneman to explain the perpetual hysteria.

190505 ▶▶ Mark, replying to DRW, 1, #1118 of 2158 🔗

Good stuff, thanks. A better fit than the “moral panic” I tend to use.

190447 leggy, replying to leggy, 30, #1119 of 2158 🔗

At work, we have a go-live this weekend. The technical part just started with a Teams meeting attended by persons from the UK (me), Germany, Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, Slovakia, Poland, France and maybe a few others I missed. As I joined the call, they were discussing all of the new restrictions coming in, borders being closed again all over Europe and the huge rise in “cases”.

I saw my chance and pointed out that a positive test is not necessarily a case. It’s potentially an infection (I didn’t ever start on false positives), but it most certainly does not mean that the figure includes only persons who are ill and displaying symptoms. I explained that this is (or used to be!) a basic premise of epidemiology.

It was telling that the only person who knew what I was talking about was the attendee from Sweden! Everyone else (including my own colleagues) hadn’t a clue. I hope I sowed a seed at least.

190466 ▶▶ Mark, replying to leggy, 15, #1120 of 2158 🔗

It’s frankly disturbing (or should be) that a group of presumably reasonably bright and informed people needs this basic fact pointed out to them. But that’s the reality we live in – most people are willing to just accept what they are spoon-fed by authority and the mainstream media, even on something as huge as this, without curiosity or investigation.

A similar phenomenon fuels ignorant gullibility over foreign policy, and in particular allowed the establishment to get away with the Iraq War and other wars of choice.

190483 ▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Mark, 9, #1121 of 2158 🔗

Exactly Mark. I recall being almost alone amongst my close friends in calling out the Iraq war and the WMD BS. One of those was brave enough afterwards to admit he was wrong and that my scepticism was well judged. I am pleased to say he is very much on our side now.

190518 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Chris Hume, 5, #1122 of 2158 🔗

I get the impression there is quite a lot of crossover between original Iraq War sceptics and lockdown sceptics. Partly perhaps because both were driven by an inclination to investigate for oneself when drastic actions are proposed.

190573 ▶▶▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Mark, #1123 of 2158 🔗

I must say I was totally bought into the Iraq nonsense, although in my defence I was a young kid who didn’t know anything about anything at the time.
Also, the Iraq war if I am correct would have been pre internet or at it’s infancy? Therefore, there wasn’t the option to research alternative sources, whereas nowadays I have no idea why people only listen to the MSM.

190586 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to JHuntz, 2, #1124 of 2158 🔗

One major difference with the Iraq parallel was that Sadam was a genuine danger – even tho’ we (or some of us) knew that waging war was devious bullshit as a solution.

The difference now is that Covid is no unusual threat, but the measures are devastating.

190645 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to RickH, 2, #1125 of 2158 🔗

I don’t think Saddam was any threat to the west myself.

190945 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 1, #1126 of 2158 🔗

Claiming “Saddam was a genuine danger” is a direct equivalent to coronapanickers today declaring that “covid19 is a deadly disease, because look at all these people it has killed”.

Saddam was no threat whatsoever to this country, or to the US, in 2003, and no more dangerous even to Iraqis than were Blair and Bush, who killed hundreds of thousands and handed the county over to civil war, repression, torture and Iranian domination. Granted, it already had torture and repression, but that’s really no excuse.

190940 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to JHuntz, #1127 of 2158 🔗

Being a young kid at the time is a pretty good defence.

As to internet resources, they were very well developed by the time of the 2003 Iraq War. Even at the time of the attack on Yugoslavia (1998-9) there was plenty of info available on the web.

190716 ▶▶▶▶▶ Simon Cook, replying to Mark, 3, #1128 of 2158 🔗

Hi Mark,

It might also be remembered that a Swede (Hans Blix) also got that one right too.

Best regards

Simon

190948 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Simon Cook, #1129 of 2158 🔗

True dat!

190487 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mark, #1130 of 2158 🔗

Like yesterday’s judge in Dolan’s case, who seemed to base his judgement on what he had seen on the ‘news’…

190510 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Carrie, 1, #1131 of 2158 🔗

See the post immediately below (if you are ordered by “newest”) from DRW, and the idea that this is all driven by an “availability cascade”, based on the “availability heuristic” – the human mental shortcut that makes people exaggerate familiar things.

190560 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark, #1132 of 2158 🔗

‘below’ ?

‘earlier’ or ‘later’ is maybe more helpful. 🙂

190566 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to JohnB, #1133 of 2158 🔗

Tbh I take the view that at worst it’s 50/50 anyway..

190539 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Mark, 1, #1134 of 2158 🔗

Quite – all IT professionals or C level executives on that call. Incidentally, it’s a large business process automation project, digitalisation, electronic workflow, home working compatible, Schwab would be proud!

190570 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to leggy, 2, #1135 of 2158 🔗

All people with the basic intellectual horsepower and skills to find or themselves and grasp the truth, if they were to bother to look, then.

190592 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Mark, 2, #1136 of 2158 🔗

Like the students interviewed on Jeremy Vine today. One from Cambridge, one Nottingham, about the proposed “voluntary” self isolation 2 weeks before xmas “so they do not bring the virus home to granny”.
Why never grandpa? Because we know women live longer?

Absolutely clueless what is going on, just complained how it is supposed to work , as their term ends earlier than the proposed period between 8th – 22nd Dec.

190690 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Silke David, 2, #1137 of 2158 🔗

I’ve said it before, but smelly hairy old grandpa doesn’t tug on the heartstrings like a sweet old granny.

190469 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to leggy, 8, #1138 of 2158 🔗

Well done. I occasionally use such online meetings to question the narrative. I avoid doing it too often in order to prevent them thinking that i am too obsessed! It is amazing how many people just absorb the MSM and assume that everything that is being done is ‘obviously’ for the best. I have managed to convert two so far. I find those in our Australian office (Perth) are the most difficult to reason with.

190532 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Chris Hume, 2, #1139 of 2158 🔗

Indeed, it was a large audience a lot of whom I only know in passing so I didn’t go in too hard on them. Stick to the basics.

190578 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to leggy, 1, #1140 of 2158 🔗

100% right on ‘stick to the basics’ – and keep it light.

190711 ▶▶ Simon Cook, replying to leggy, 2, #1141 of 2158 🔗

Good afternoon leggy,

I find the recent news about Cristiano Ronaldo quite useful in this regard. There are photos of him at a team meal looking happy as Larry (after the 0-0 match with France earlier this week), then another one taken of him smiling on his balcony the next day after testing positive and being quarantined.

People were actually on social media posting that they hoped he gets well soon, fearing for his life etc.. if you look at the photos you see a man the picture of health. In fact even on my best, younger days I doubt I looked as healthy as he does presently!

Best regards

Simon

190801 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to leggy, 1, #1142 of 2158 🔗

Oh, great stuff! Dr John Lee, Telegraph 12 October, describes the difference perfectly. There is a huge rise in testing (they tell us, though we don’t get to see the heaving queues) so they’ll find huge numbers of positives (often false) – but we’re being manipulated and coerced by the use of these figures.As soon as the Terminally Terrified see the word ”cases” they think ”bodies in the streets, dying people in corridors, stretcher cases everywhere”….. We’ve got to counter this.

190474 Caramel, 1, #1143 of 2158 🔗

Good presentation about the models in New Zealand from Covid Plan B.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azb3wynr9uo&t=661s

190475 Mr Dee, 2, #1144 of 2158 🔗

https://www.thelastamericanvagabond.com/who-official-speaks-out-against-lockdowns-covid-vaccine-trials-sham-designed-to-succeed/

If you do not want to listen to the whole two hours, please listen to Ryan Cristian’s call to arms in the last 5-10 minutes. It’s very uplifting.

190476 snippet, replying to snippet, 4, #1145 of 2158 🔗

Note the similarities between Mike Yeadon’s (MY) pie chart and Karl Friston’s (KF) model:

Friston’s model presumes that 33% of the population has been exposed to the virus. From the data, he has made inferences about immunity. “Of those that have been exposed, 82% appeared to be susceptible to infection; however, 40% of these may never produce antibodies. This means that if you split effective population immunity into seropositive and seronegative proportions [ie with and without antibodies], we should have about 8% seropositive immunity and about 23% seronegative immunity (presumably mediated by T-cell immunity). In total, this means over 30% of the population could be effectively immune.”

https://unherd.com/2020/10/the-case-for-a-circuit-breaker/

* Infected: 32% (MY) vs 33% (KF)
* Prior immunity: 30% (MY) vs 23% (KF)
* Children < 10 years: actually 12% from ONS projection
* Susceptible: 28% vs 32% (calculated)

KF reckons 2500 deaths in the second ripple:

“to put things in perspective, the number of lives saved from SARS-CoV-2 [from a national lockdown] is about twice the number of people dying from road traffic accidents in a year — and less than half the number dying from seasonal influenza.”

190576 ▶▶ RickH, replying to snippet, 1, #1146 of 2158 🔗

Yes – I’ve just noticed that piece.

I think Friston has moderated his estimate of actual population immunity. I also reckon that his ‘saved mortality’ estimate assumes all other things equal – e.g that nothing else would carry off the ‘dry tinder’.

Given that, and reading between the lines, you come to the conclusion that there really is nothing to panic about in comparison with the normal run of things.

190481 chaos, replying to chaos, 3, #1147 of 2158 🔗

Does Toby really think we are still in a cockup? Computer says no. Computer wonders why ‘Lockdown Sceptics’.

190552 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to chaos, #1148 of 2158 🔗

I know he has backed himself into a corner with his cock up theory not even Boris could be that stupid

190563 ▶▶ Julian, replying to chaos, 2, #1149 of 2158 🔗

Computer wonders why ‘Lockdown Sceptics’.”

I am afraid that’s too subtle for me.

190488 Londo Mollari, replying to Londo Mollari, 2, #1150 of 2158 🔗

Wales’s First Minister Dripford has said he is looking at a short sharp period of restrictions which mean we have to stay at home for two weeks. So far as I can tell, Covid-related hospitalisations are increasing but deaths have actually dropped.

190569 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Londo Mollari, 1, #1151 of 2158 🔗

The last but one Ivor Cummins video is good in illustrating that what is currently happening is just normal for the time of year.

https://youtu.be/gJq8MBgYJ4Q

190492 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 17, #1152 of 2158 🔗

At our local Morrisons for a quick shop.

Staff enjoy seeing and talking to a free-faced customer.

Will moan and complain about the mask wearing edict with almost no prompting.

Got in a few comments about BMA saying no evidence, “in close contact” is not “must wear a mask at all times”, should be defined in risks assessment, have you seen this, look on laworfiction or lockdownsceptics.org for yourselves so they aid they would as they are royally pissed off. Not one of them had seen or heard of a risk assessment sow ere going to ask as this broke health and safety law – ha ha ha.

Even customers especially older ones chatted to me an date wife almost normally – I could see in their faces above the mask them working up the courage to go without them.

Embarrassed one guy as he was directly behind me and in this position I cannot see nor hear him but he did say something to me. Got a bit pissed off as I ignored him until the wife got my attention and got me to turn round and said “he can’t hear you from that position”. Once I turned round and showed him the “take off your mask as I can’t understand you” badge he got very flustered, apologised, said he didn’t think it was a real excuse but was now convinced etc etc.

Also the paper Daily Fail caught my eye – headline was “Epidemic of Madness” which was surprising. Maybe worm has really turned.

All in all a good morning.

191348 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Awkward Git, #1153 of 2158 🔗

Love your ‘normal day’ updates.

190506 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 9, #1154 of 2158 🔗

https://twitter.com/WheresYourMask/with_replies

This is some Black-Mirror level monstrosity. A Twitter account taking photos of people without masks, without their consent on public transport and publicly shaming them with name and time of train.

No words.

190513 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Poppy, #1155 of 2158 🔗

“Caution: This account is temporarily restricted
You’re seeing this warning because there has been some unusual activity from this account. Do you still want to view it?”

Odd.

190553 ▶▶ D B, replying to Poppy, 1, #1156 of 2158 🔗

Shame scrolled through hoping I would be on there – if someone is caught taking a picture of me I’ll have their phone off them and thrown on the line.

190572 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Poppy, 1, #1157 of 2158 🔗

Hopefully someone has deemed it illegal? Does it breach GDPR? I’m guessing the idea is that people put names to the photos which surely breaches people’s privacy?
Can we ask Francis Hoar?

190587 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Carrie, #1158 of 2158 🔗

It breaches Twitter’s T&C at the very least.

190637 ▶▶▶ Jo, replying to Carrie, #1159 of 2158 🔗

Anyone can legally take pictures or videos of you in a public place, unfortunately

190649 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jo, 1, #1160 of 2158 🔗

Yes, but doxxing (putting names to photos) is surely not permissible?

190857 ▶▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Jo, #1161 of 2158 🔗

Technically this doesn’t include places like the underground, shops, libraries etc. but nobody gives a shit

190584 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Poppy, #1162 of 2158 🔗

Hold on a minute, wasn’t there a justification Twitter used for suppressing certain allegations about Biden recently?

190595 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Poppy, #1163 of 2158 🔗

Account appears to have been shut down fortunately.

190617 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Poppy, 4, #1164 of 2158 🔗

Sounds like a job for Jules Winnfield .

(Although their actions would perhaps more likely constitute an act of disability discrimination under section 119 (Remedies) of the Equality Act 2010, for which you can be ordered to pay compensation of between £900 and £9,000 , rather than a violation under section 112.)

190652 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mabel Cow, 2, #1165 of 2158 🔗

Good poster!

190859 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Mabel Cow, 2, #1166 of 2158 🔗

” Where’s your lanyard?”
“In my pocket. It’s the one that says Bad Muthafucka”

190897 ▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to PoshPanic, #1167 of 2158 🔗

Nice one!

190662 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to Poppy, #1168 of 2158 🔗

Only has 3 followers. Good.

190509 leggy, replying to leggy, 3, #1169 of 2158 🔗

Can I ask a silly question? Maybe someone knows the answer.

The flu vaccine changes every year as apparently, the strain of flu changes every year.

So how to they know what the next strain of flu is going to be in order to be able to prepare a vaccine for it?

190511 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to leggy, 3, #1170 of 2158 🔗

From what I know, they normally take data from the southern hemisphere and vice-versa to predict which strains will be most prevalent in that hemisphere’s winter.

190523 ▶▶ matt, replying to leggy, 4, #1171 of 2158 🔗

They guess. Sometimes they get it right, sometimes they get it wrong. It’s a bit more complicated than that, but it’s not far off.

190594 ▶▶▶ johnthebridge, replying to matt, 2, #1172 of 2158 🔗

About right.
Last year, I asked the practice nurse at my GPs surgery the same question. She shrugged and said, “It’s a guess.”

190531 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to leggy, 3, #1173 of 2158 🔗

Ouji board

190533 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to leggy, 2, #1174 of 2158 🔗

They don’t. As far as I know PHE/WHO guesses what it will be from the strains that have been circulating in the last one or two flu seasons, then advises on vaccine preps based on the prediction. They get it wrong occasionally (2018):

https://metro.co.uk/2018/01/05/flu-jab-targeting-wrong-strain-health-officials-reveal-7205455/#:~:text=A%20flu%20jab%20which%20has,flu%20which%20is%20currently%20circulating .

190562 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to leggy, 2, #1175 of 2158 🔗

The WHO puts their recommendations here and the manufacturers follow it:

https://www.who.int/influenza/vaccines/virus/recommendations/2020-21_north/en/

190606 ▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to leggy, 2, #1176 of 2158 🔗

Its bollox just a money making exercise

190841 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to leggy, 1, #1177 of 2158 🔗

The ECDC issued this at the start of last season..

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/influenza-situation-assessment-18-December-2019.pdf

During the previous recent A(H3N2) dominated seasons, influenza-associated excess winter mortality among the elderly has been increased. During the 2014–2015 and 2016– 2017 influenza A(H3N2) dominated seasons, with poor vaccine match, influenza-associated mortality among people aged 65 years and above was 147.41 and 129.90 per 100 000 population over the age of 64, respectively [10]

191060 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to leggy, #1178 of 2158 🔗

WHO guesses.

191323 ▶▶ Lili, replying to leggy, #1179 of 2158 🔗

They use previous years’ flu strains in each current year’s vaccine. Apparently the vaccine that they had in China and Italy (Lombardy) last year had four different strains and the vector was of canine origin. The cytokine storms we kept hearing about back in March/April are the results of an over stimulated immune system that can’t cope with the workload of four strains. This is one reason why specific demographics that had the vax died.

190512 Squire Western, replying to Squire Western, 5, #1180 of 2158 🔗

I see that Andy Burnham appears to have won his battle with Boris and Greater Manchester is not going into tier 3. This will now be very interesting. We will all have the opportunity to observe whether the stricter measures in Liverpool and Lancashire actually produce a better outcome than the looser ones in Greater Manchester. My hunch is that there will be very little difference in terms of hospitalisations/deaths, thereby proving the lockdowns to be ineffective as a method of disease control.

190536 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Squire Western, 5, #1181 of 2158 🔗

The Scousers will go out on the piss in Manchester.

190558 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Squire Western, 1, #1182 of 2158 🔗

But that evidence will be ignored as usual by the zealots holding the political and social high ground.

190561 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Squire Western, 1, #1183 of 2158 🔗

The thing is, you would have a hell of a difficulty pinning any differences down to political variables.

190564 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Squire Western, #1184 of 2158 🔗

I suspect the denouement will come before there is enough time to gather data to compare. I don’t see how BoJo can let this go. The precedent of folding in the face of local pressure is too dangerous from his perspective, so he will perhaps either have to bribe (with Rishi’s help) or impose his will (not sure what that would look like in practice), or third option – go for national restrictions claiming that Burnham & co have forced his hand and should be held responsible.

190581 ▶▶▶ l835, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #1185 of 2158 🔗

Last option. Blame someone else.

190679 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #1186 of 2158 🔗

I don’t know, most places are begging to be locked up further so perhaps he can let this one go.

190677 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Squire Western, 1, #1187 of 2158 🔗

If Manchester even have one more case or death than anywhere else that will be used to prove that lockdowns work.

190687 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #1188 of 2158 🔗

If there aren’t enough ‘cases’ they will manufacture them.

190517 Splotchy, replying to Splotchy, 5, #1189 of 2158 🔗

I wouldn’t take any notice of Trish Greenhalgh (Snow memo). Right at the beginning of this covid brouhaha she was advocating wearing a pantyliner over the face and creating her own masks out of the same. This was the absence of any RCT showing benefit.

Sadly, she has the ear of the policymakers who likewise ignore the evidence on home made masks. These are truly odd times in that evidence is ignored and baseless whims indulged. However, applying a pantyliner to the face is new madness – Ignore.

190568 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Splotchy, #1190 of 2158 🔗

Has the government now totally stopped listening to Carl Heneghan?

190590 ▶▶▶ bucky99, replying to Carrie, 1, #1191 of 2158 🔗

“now”?

190624 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to bucky99, #1192 of 2158 🔗

Well, stopped even calling him in then?

190604 ▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to Carrie, 3, #1193 of 2158 🔗

It looks like they only pretended to listen to him in the first place. Unless anyone has any evidence otherwise?

190800 ▶▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to mattghg, #1194 of 2158 🔗

It could be this. I haven’t seen any attempts at rubbishing the CEBM work, though I bet a few have tried. If Trump tweets any of their data however..

190672 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Carrie, #1195 of 2158 🔗

Seems like it. Very depressing, I had a lot of hope in him. After that meeting with No. 10 he said we would see more of a move towards the Swedish approach but if anything the opposite has happened. He’s been pretty quiet lately so either given up or been told to shut up perhaps!

190685 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1196 of 2158 🔗

I thought right away that the meeting with Heneghan et al was to find out what their approach was – so it could be ignored, and probably rubbished in the press. These bastards won’t stop unless they are killed.

190580 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Splotchy, 1, #1197 of 2158 🔗

The irony is that she stated that we don’t need to wait for proof that masks work in order to make them mandatory, or words to that effect.

190620 ▶▶ Caramel, replying to Splotchy, 2, #1198 of 2158 🔗

Just looked her up. She seems like a wet dream for The Guardian.

190521 Squire Western, 7, #1199 of 2158 🔗

Brilliant article by Dr Mark Yeadon.

190545 paulito, 25, #1200 of 2158 🔗

Shocking video of a protest in Barcelona against the closure of bars and restaurants. Just some of the cries from the protestors: “They’ve ruined us” “they’re starving us to death” “we’ve got nothing to eat” “we’re at the point of having to shoplift in supermarkets” “We’re dying of hunger you bastards” and “we want to work”. These are the results of the criminal actions of the people who claim to represent us. Vile scum who should never be forgiven for what they have done and what they continue to do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5MPJ_Kd0uk

190548 Mabel Cow, replying to Mabel Cow, 9, #1201 of 2158 🔗

I thought this might be usefu l as a copy-paste image for social media posting. M y muse has deserted me today, so t he wording is a bit ham-fisted. Any advice gratefully received.

Sean’s fundraiser is proving quite popular (it’s at £47,049 right now), and the prevent gyms closing due to a spike in Covid 19 cases petition is up to 336,786 signatures.

190602 ▶▶ Stephanos, replying to Mabel Cow, 4, #1202 of 2158 🔗

I have just signed the petition. I don’t visit gyms personally but this is not just about gyms; it is about ALL of our interests. I used to visit the Bodleian Library in Oxford twice per week for study purposes but it is now so tiresome with all these idiotic, stupid, inane and off-putting rules that I don’t go any more.

190766 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Stephanos, #1203 of 2158 🔗

I know how you feel. I’ve been boycotting the British Library precisely for that reason but now I have to break my boycott for work reasons.

Seeing what I have to go to has made me lose the will to live.

190765 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to Mabel Cow, #1204 of 2158 🔗

SIGNED! And so glad to see how quickly it’s growing!

(But I do wish they hadn’t used the word ”cases” or even ”spike”. They’re Newspeak words and we really shouldn’t parrot them.)

190556 RickH, replying to RickH, #1205 of 2158 🔗

Interesting article in ‘Unherd’ re. Karl Friston’s latest analysis.

He’s signed the Jon Snow thingymebob – which surprised me. But you can’t deny his intellect (which you can do for many of the SAGE types).

The views are actually quite subtle and worth reading. Not at all Covid fanatic stuff, although I think even he trips over the basic problem of modelling the course of a disease in terms of the inclusion of all relevant variables. I reckon that he’s on safer ground re. his previous analysis of the factors affecting the incidence of Covid-19.

However – worth a read :

https://unherd.com/2020/10/the-case-for-a-circuit-breaker/

190574 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to RickH, 3, #1206 of 2158 🔗

I’m curious how one can utilise immunity in modelling but also sign a memo effectively saying it can’t be utilised.

190648 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Nobody2020, #1207 of 2158 🔗

Easy, set immunity to zero

191058 ▶▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #1208 of 2158 🔗

And then divide the number of cases by immunity to obtain the real number of cases.

190654 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Nobody2020, #1209 of 2158 🔗

Yes – I couldn’t quite work it out.

190575 Limabeanstar-, replying to Limabeanstar-, 6, #1210 of 2158 🔗

If you stop using Google as your search engine and try DuckDuckGo then the Great Barrington Declaration comes up first.

190728 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Limabeanstar-, #1211 of 2158 🔗

Good tip. I won’t be donating to Wikipedia again.

190579 JHuntz, replying to JHuntz, 4, #1212 of 2158 🔗

So it appears if I had worn the same rag over my face (any rag) and recycled it between my car and my pocket I would then not be a granny killer and I would become an acceptable member of society.

190583 ▶▶ chaos, replying to JHuntz, 4, #1213 of 2158 🔗

That’s the spirit!

190589 ▶▶ bucky99, replying to JHuntz, 3, #1214 of 2158 🔗

And likely a rather poorly member of society.

190593 ▶▶ JME, replying to JHuntz, 1, #1215 of 2158 🔗

You would also have contributed to the obvious beneficial effect that wearing them is having on the number of positive tests- it would be so much worse if we didn’t all wear them!

190588 Gman, replying to Gman, 79, #1216 of 2158 🔗

I think I have finally been broken. Please excuse the language but I have had it up to here with these fucking morons leading this country.

This afternoon comes through an email from my youngest sons primary school that masks must be worn on school grounds at all times (no mention of exemptions.) I mean what the actual fuck!!

Turn up mask free to witness every other parent shuffling into the playground with masks – that is fucking bad enough but then I see the teachers stood outside with the kids and they are all wearing masks too (even though they release the kids from the classes 20 meters from the parents.)

The thing that kills me is that around 20% of the kids (age 4-7) are now muzzled once they reach their parents. This is just on day 1 of it being implemented a coupe of hours ago. My 5 year old is then upset that he doesn’t have a mask and his friends have one – oh and daddy you need to wear one too.

I ask him why and he says otherwise we will die of coronavirus. What are we doing to our children for the love of god!!

This is the final straw – when does the revolution start as I for one cannot live in this dystopian nightmare for months/years to come.

190591 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Gman, 18, #1217 of 2158 🔗

What are they going to do? Not give your kids back if you don’t comply? Don’t wear a mask. Just say exempt if a bedwetting stasi cunt asks. Don’t get into a conversation.

190613 ▶▶▶ Gman, replying to chaos, 18, #1218 of 2158 🔗

Dont worry I wont comply and wear a mask – the difficulty is that due to the high compliance I will stand out as some kind of trouble maker and just watch as the offers for play dates disappear. The brainwashing has been so complete that I will be considered a selfish prick.

190622 ▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Gman, 12, #1219 of 2158 🔗

Play dates have not disappeared for us.

Other parents do not seem to consider me a selfish prick. And I’m not the only non-masko. Chin up (and naked).

190632 ▶▶▶▶▶ Gman, replying to Ovis, 7, #1220 of 2158 🔗

thanks Ovis that is reassuring.

190639 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Gman, 29, #1221 of 2158 🔗

Apologies, writing in a rush, as I have to dash. I’m the only parent who is unmasked picking up/dropping off my 4-year-old. I don’t give a fuck. My duty as a human being is all that counts. And if other parents hold this against me for years to come, too fucking bad.

I’ve been on to UsForThem about this – the headmasters have no legal basis upon which to insist on muzzle wearing. I’ll post later if I remember.

And if anyone on here is offended by my language, well I’m really not that sorry. When this garbage starts to affect children or the very old and vulnerable, I glimpse red.

Oh, and in my experience a fair few other parents will quietly wish that they weren’t wearing a muzzle, but they don’t want to step out of line.

190644 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to TJN, 4, #1222 of 2158 🔗

Didn’t Country Mumkin on here fight a similar battle with a school a couple of weeks ago? She may still have a copy of the letters she wrote…

191053 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Carrie, 2, #1223 of 2158 🔗

Yes, we had a very similar discussion back then, bits of which I’ve reposted here.

190647 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to TJN, 11, #1224 of 2158 🔗

Just found a copy of my post on here a week or two ago on this:

Regarding the instruction/request by some schools for parents to wear masks when dropping off and picking up their chidren from school.

I wrote to UsForThem about this, and they replied that ‘this is a worrying trend and we’re seeing it in a number of schools around the country’. They confirmed that there is no legal basis for this requirement, which is thus only a request, and enclosed the Public Health England briefing to headmasters answering the following question:

Due to [sic] a lack of adherence to repeated requests for people to keep their distance whilst dropping off and picking up their children, we have asked adults to wear masks on school property. Would we be within our rights to refuse admission to the playground if someone refuses to wear a mask?

PHE answer (my emphasis ):

The government has set out some venues where face coverings are required by law, such as on public transport. School guidance states that head teachers have the right to request visitors wear face coverings when in indoor areas such as corridors where social distancing is more difficult. Government guidance also states that some people are exempt from wearing face coverings, such as those who cannot put on, wear or remove a face covering because of a physical or mental illness or impairment, or disability.
Thus, although you may wish to encourage people to wear face coverings whilst in the school playground, it cannot be legally enforced. In addition we recommend that schools continue to promote social distancing amongst parents at drop off/pick up times in their communication with parents and also by reviewing the plans they have in place, such as one-way systems at entry/exit points and signage.

So it is clear: there is no legal obligation to wear masks when dropping children off at school, and the headmasters know this.

190651 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to TJN, 12, #1225 of 2158 🔗

You’re right – and Gman is also right : it isn’t the legal position, it’s the social dysfunction that is the issue.

190661 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Gman, replying to RickH, 14, #1226 of 2158 🔗

Rick – exactly right – couldn’t give two shits about getting in “trouble” with the school – would never wear a mask especially in front of my kids. It is what it is doing to the psychology of very young children that is making me so angry.

190601 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to Gman, 22, #1227 of 2158 🔗

This came in at my daughter’s school weeks ago, reinforced with an aggressive email asking that any parent with an exemption should notify the school (register!).

I have consistently ignored it, as have a few others. There has been no direct aggro. Those of us who still have faces smile at each other.

I tell my daughter that what she is being told about the Covid is bonkers. For example, I explained to her in the school queue that you cannot spread viruses by singing, and the the school’s rule against singing is bonkers (she likes the word ‘bonkers’ and repeats it loudly).

Maybe it will get worse. Maybe it ends with special Covid social workers taking our children away. But right now there is actually nothing these people can do if you just defy them.

190627 ▶▶▶ Gman, replying to Ovis, 7, #1228 of 2158 🔗

It doesn’t help that the teacher spend the day telling them how all adults have to wear masks when out and even showed a picture of her out shopping in a mask to the class.

190641 ▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Gman, 4, #1229 of 2158 🔗

Sounds like your spore pics will have answered that, Gman.

And Bucky99 has some great talking points I shall use with my daughter in a few minutes time.

190607 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Gman, 1, #1230 of 2158 🔗

I, for one think it is ‘only’ temporary.

Hang in there!

190710 ▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to calchas, 5, #1231 of 2158 🔗

What’s only temporary? The mask thing, global economic genocide or both?

191220 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to calchas, 2, #1232 of 2158 🔗

Little point in being overoptimistic, the bastards really are out to get us. They aren’t going away until they’ve got us all.

191237 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to calchas, 3, #1233 of 2158 🔗

Little point in being overoptimistic, as the bastards really are out to get us. They aren’t going away until they’ve got us all.

190611 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Gman, 16, #1234 of 2158 🔗

If the Queen doesn’t wear a mask outside – or inside for that matter – why should anyone else. Who do the teachers think they are?

190612 ▶▶ bucky99, replying to Gman, 14, #1235 of 2158 🔗

For under 11s the Gov guidance is explicit that they shouldn’t wear masks in school. Refuse under any circumstance, I’d say.

Also, kids tend to have a pretty good sense of right & wrong, so set out some simple reasons why masks are bad.
– they can make you sick
– all the baddies wear them
– if you can’t breathe well, you’re brain won’t work so well, makes it harder to learn
Etc.

190618 ▶▶▶ Gman, replying to bucky99, 10, #1236 of 2158 🔗

Thanks, i have done this just now and shown some pictures of fungal spores – think i may have gone too far as he now wants to call his friends and tell them not to wear masks !!

190621 ▶▶▶▶ bucky99, replying to Gman, 10, #1237 of 2158 🔗

Sounds like he’s got the right idea!

190636 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Gman, 9, #1238 of 2158 🔗

Pictures of rampant impetigo are suitably ‘icky’ to turn kids off wearing masks!

190717 ▶▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Gman, 5, #1239 of 2158 🔗

My opinion is that teacher needs to be reprimanded. I don’t know the law/legal grounds, but is there any mandate for teachers to be doing this kind of “lesson” in class? Is it part of the curriculum?

190729 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Gman, 2, #1240 of 2158 🔗

Great job I’d say!!

191224 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Gman, 1, #1241 of 2158 🔗

That is not going too far, you should be proud of him as no doubt you are.

190634 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Gman, 10, #1242 of 2158 🔗

Under 11s are exempt. Full stop.

190638 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Gman, 5, #1243 of 2158 🔗

The end of furlough and the coming economic Armageddon can’t come soon enough.

Unfortunately that’s the one certainty to wake up those who are still asleep.

190642 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Gman, 16, #1244 of 2158 🔗

As has been frequently said – this is child abuse, and any teaching professional coming out with this sort of crap should be shamed as they would be for any other form of child abuse.

190683 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to RickH, 4, #1245 of 2158 🔗

All you have to say its child abuse. Let them argue that!

190738 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #1246 of 2158 🔗

They don’t argue it – they just say they’re just following the guidelines and they cant go against Gov advice. My point was that if they are guidelines they can be interpreted any way you want. Trouble it seems is that there are more parents wanting more masks than there are sensible people. Maybe the parents need to go to school more than their kids do.

191051 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to RickH, 3, #1247 of 2158 🔗

Raise a safeguarding concern with the school about the member(s) of staff, advising them that you will escalate it to the local authorities specifically social services and OFSTED.( the latter is a somewhat empty threat as OFSTED is like standing adjacent to Matt Hancock I.e. next to useless)

190656 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Gman, 18, #1248 of 2158 🔗

I just received a similar edict from my calf’s school, stating that they will be implementing a “circuit breaker” after half term.

I tell you what, it was all I could do to stop myself from having a stroke, especially considering that I pay for her to attend this school.

Calf and I will be having a chat when she gets home today. I will be recommending that she not attend until the edict is lifted, but she’s free to make up her own mind. Our country might be a dictatorship, but I’ll be damned if my house will become one. If she wants to eat this shit, she can. I’d be gutted, but that’s what it means to let people choose. Mind you, if she chooses the muzzle then she can fucking walk to school. I won’t be aiding and abetting.

In the meantime, I emailed the school asking them for a statement on their policy regarding mask exemption. I’m eagerly awaiting their response.

190701 ▶▶▶ Gman, replying to Mabel Cow, 3, #1249 of 2158 🔗

Thanks Mabel you have put a smile on my face for the first time today 🙂

190673 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Gman, 4, #1250 of 2158 🔗

Just tell me where’s the nearest barricade?

190700 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Gman, 2, #1251 of 2158 🔗

just another thing for the teaching blob to indoctrinate the children about . such a pity their purpose changed from education to indoctrination some years ago.

191085 ▶▶ Sodastream, replying to Gman, 6, #1252 of 2158 🔗

Hi Gman
I really hear what you’re saying about this at your youngest sons school. It makes me so angry too. I cannot believe they didn’t mention exemptions.
I work in the nhs and a colleague said a patient had no mask on as he said he was exempt and she was incredulous that anyone could be exempt. I told colleague it’s the law. If healthcare staff don’t know then I’m not surprised teachers don’t. Everyone it seems is mask mad…
Every week I think things cannot get any worse but they do and I’m just waiting for my youngest 2 children’s primary to do something like this. It cannot be right for young children to witness this, it has to be damaging! Never mind the parents putting masks on their children it makes me feel sick.

My eldest is at secondary and we were emailed yesterday to say mask have to be worn within corridors but not classrooms and that has nearly finished me off, I knew it was a matter of time but even so it horrified me.
I have emailed school and said my child will be unable to participate in the wearing of a mask due to a health exemption (distress caused by putting in a mask but I didn’t specify this as per the law). No reply and he breaks up today for 2 week half term.
I expect when he goes back they’ll make a big deal of it.. I won’t give in. I think it’s disgusting to consider a child to wear a mask. Over my dead body.
I’m losing sleep losing weight as few so angry about the whole thing…
Keep us posted as to what you do
Regards

191252 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Gman, 2, #1253 of 2158 🔗

Present them with a disclaimer to sign saying that they will accept full liability for any negative mental or physical effects if they want to enforce this, then watch them capitulate. Do this in as friendly a fashion as you can. Stay calm but insist that they sign it if they want your son to wear one. Try to get other parents on board and give them a disclaimer for the school to sign too. Good luck and keep us all posted.

191255 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Gman, 1, #1254 of 2158 🔗

Give the school a disclaimer to sign saying that they will accept full liability for any negative mental or physical effects if they want to enforce this, then watch them capitulate. Do this in as friendly a fashion as you can. Stay calm but insist that they sign it if they want your son to wear one. Try to get other parents on board and give them a disclaimer for the school to sign too. Good luck and keep us all posted.

190596 Gladiatrix, replying to Gladiatrix, 1, #1255 of 2158 🔗

I have emailed this article to the Cabinet Secretary and asked him to put it in front of the PM urgently. It’s the only thing I can think of.

190631 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Gladiatrix, #1256 of 2158 🔗

Which article? The whole of today’s post?

190600 chaos, replying to chaos, 1, #1257 of 2158 🔗

Black people masked in a car. Discuss.

190659 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to chaos, 1, #1258 of 2158 🔗

That’s RACIST!!!!!!!!

191251 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to chaos, #1259 of 2158 🔗

i am really not ‘woke’ in any way. I am a white bloke from Essex. Why are you making a point about masked people in a car and referencing their skin colour? There are many idiots wearing masks in all sorts of situations including cars (I think that wearing a mask in any situation is ludicrous) and most of them are white. Please don’t bring real (not pretend wokey stuff) racism here. there are many citizens of all ethnic backgrounds who support our cause. Let’s keep it that way.

190610 Bill Bedford, replying to Bill Bedford, 1, #1260 of 2158 🔗

Can someone check the numbers of influenza deaths in Japan last year (winter 18/19). My understanding is that they had a bigger than usual flu’ epidemic and if a large number of people died then it would explain why so few people have died this year with covid-19.

190664 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Bill Bedford, 1, #1261 of 2158 🔗

Flu has essentially disappeared from New Zealand. Now I know that is good news in general, but come on.

190670 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 3, #1262 of 2158 🔗

Until next year (or whenever they finally let people in and out again) when they have a horrific flu year because no one has any immunity to the most recent strains…

191023 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Bill Bedford, #1263 of 2158 🔗

This may be of interest:
“Normally, the protein made from the IFITM3 gene interferes with how the influenza virus enters cells, though precisely how is not yet understood. (We know that this same gene is used by animals, as mice genetically modified to lack the gene are more susceptible to flu infection.) And people who have a non-functional version of this gene simply lack this component of our immune defence against the virus. In 2012, the non-functional form of this gene was found to be especially common in people hospitalised by an influenza infection. Those in intensive care were seventeen times more likely to have the defective gene. Variations of this gene are also particularly common in Japanese and Chinese people. Because of this, Japanese and Chinese people may be at higher risk for developing severe illness from flu, but this remains to be tested directly.”

The Beautiful Cure: The New Science of Human Health by Daniel M Davis

190630 Darryl, 2, #1264 of 2158 🔗

Just watched an interview with MP Chris Green who has resigned from government. Sad to see him go as he does actually understand the wider issue affecting ordinary people unlike most MPs. Shame he twice completely avoided the question on whether the ‘Great Reset’ agenda is being pursued, I think from this we can safely assume – yes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eBSwspojh4

190633 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #1265 of 2158 🔗

A funny take on the insane times we live in:

https://twitter.com/GeoffNorcott/status/1317074221017726977

190684 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #1266 of 2158 🔗

always funny.. unfortunately he rarely gets a BBC gig. Guess why!!

190715 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to mjr, 1, #1267 of 2158 🔗

Doesn’t surprise me. He made a docu for the BBC that essentially skewered the upper middle classes – didn’t go down well with the BBC apparatchiks.

190640 l835, replying to l835, 4, #1268 of 2158 🔗

Wales

Have been locked down for two weeks now. Drakeford says restrictions will last for at least another week, during which time he will announce another two week “fire break” (completely different to a circuit break of course, because that’s English and won’t work) which would “mean a short, sharp shock to all our lives” so that’s five weeks all together.

That will be fun.

But at least it will “get us as far as Christmas” albeit with a new, new set of rules for Wales.

Can we trust him? Will I take any notice? Do I care… ?

190665 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to l835, 2, #1269 of 2158 🔗

So when they release you from imprisonment they’ll claim infections are rising then you’ll be locked down again, rinse and repeat ad infinitum.

190702 ▶▶▶ l835, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #1270 of 2158 🔗

Used to enjoy watching ‘Groundhog Day’ now we’re living it.

190668 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to l835, 1, #1271 of 2158 🔗

Two circuit breaks in a row. What a surprise. It’s only 2 weeks… etc etc etc.

190678 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to l835, 1, #1272 of 2158 🔗

Next its a wind break

190643 2 pence, replying to 2 pence, 3, #1273 of 2158 🔗

And it didn’t take long. WTF .

COVID-21: Lethal Virus
The climate change has released an ancient rabies virus trapped in the Antarctica ice. A female scientist tries to get to the laboratory to create a cure to save the world, protected by an eccentric and two members of the special forces.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11246434/

191033 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to 2 pence, #1274 of 2158 🔗

Hmmm compare with Canada’s plans for the next year or so: https://thecanadianreport.ca/is-this-leaked-memo-really-trudeaus-covid-plan-for-2021-you-decide/
‘Projected COVID-19 mutation and/or co-infection with secondary virus (referred to as COVID-21) leading to a third wave with much higher mortality rate and higher rate of infection. Expected by February 2021.
– Daily new cases of COVID-21 hospitalizations and COVID-19 and COVID-21 related deaths will exceed medical care facilities capacity. Expected Q1 – Q2 2021.’

190660 BeBopRockSteady, 1, #1275 of 2158 🔗

From a friend in entertainment. The New Normal

190663 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 5, #1276 of 2158 🔗

Unpandemonium new website.

Something isn’t right.

You know it.

I know it.

https://www.tamperproof.earth/home

Some thought provoking comments and blog articles.

191247 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Sarigan, #1277 of 2158 🔗

I’m now on their mailing list.

190667 A. Contrarian, 6, #1278 of 2158 🔗

Re. the immunity issue. The story seems to be that SARS-CoV-2 is the only virus known to man to which we gain no useful immunity.

But we need to lock down again because only 10% have antibodies so 90% are still susceptible. If more had been exposed we would be ok because immunity would be higher.

But they’ve just told us that we don’t gain any immunity so how does that make any sense?

Rhetorical question of course.

190671 Mayo, replying to Mayo, -1, #1279 of 2158 🔗

Ouch! ONS Covid numbers don’t look good.

Although, the most recent survey data includes a period which shows a sharp uptick in government data which might – just might – be levelling off. Next few days will tell.

190676 ▶▶ Sara, replying to Mayo, 3, #1280 of 2158 🔗

Are they including flu/pneumonia from 8th October?

190698 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Sara, 4, #1281 of 2158 🔗

They are taking all causes of death for the last 50 years and including them all in today’s covid figures.

190959 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Sara, 1, #1282 of 2158 🔗

You be mad to think they won’t try.

Person goes into hospital with flu; gets tested for covid, as is now normal for all admissions; test comes back ‘positive’ (after 45 cycles); person dies of flu within 28 days of test (note: NOT of covid); person is included in covid death stats .

Why am I saying this? It’s because that is what they are doing with every single person who dies within 28 days of being tested, regardless of REAL cause of death.

190681 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Mayo, 6, #1283 of 2158 🔗

“Don’t look good”. I think we need to bear in mind that viruses are often seasonal, and that they do infect people and sometimes do them great harm.

All the evidence indicates that government attempts to “stop” viruses simply don’t work, so we have to broadly speaking live with viruses, mitigate where feasible, and look for treatments and vaccines with the proper caution.

There doesn’t appear to be anything exceptional about this virus, so why is the reaction to it exceptional?

191039 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Julian, -2, #1284 of 2158 🔗

The virus might not be “exceptional” but it is able to infect a much larger number of people than the viruses we normally encounter.

190682 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Mayo, 3, #1285 of 2158 🔗

Only bad if you believe in Covid

191040 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Dan Clarke, -3, #1286 of 2158 🔗

Oh dear.

191120 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mayo, #1287 of 2158 🔗

Christ.

190674 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 6, #1288 of 2158 🔗

Johnson on at 4 pm to tell us that lockdown’s are about saving lives, when the last one didn’t, plus the WHO have told him they don’t. The lies still flowing.

190686 ▶▶ Marvin42, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #1289 of 2158 🔗

Thanks for the warning – just in time. Off for a long walk, sans-iPhone, at 4pm. That will do me much more good.

190691 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Dan Clarke, 6, #1290 of 2158 🔗

bla bla bla

Fantastic NHS
bla bla bla
deadly virus
bla bla bla
Fantastic NHS
bla bla bla
deadly virus
bla bla bla

190730 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to calchas, 6, #1291 of 2158 🔗

HANDS FACE TITS ARSE WILLY

190704 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Dan Clarke, 5, #1292 of 2158 🔗

Why is the tosser on TV again ? It’s only been a few days.

Implement tier system and assess in two three weeks the impact. NOPE. Introduce Monday and and ramp up your capital city on Thursday. 72 hours !

Why not introduce it on Monday. Hence why is Bunter back on the box within the week. Really sick of him now

190712 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #1293 of 2158 🔗

But according to him we’re not in lockdown of course. Just tiers and restrictions and measures and whatever.

The thought of him spouting off again this afternoon really is the depressing sour cherry on top of the mouldy stale old cake of life in the 2020 dystopian hell.

Sorry, having a bad day in a sea of bad days (weeks, months…).

190726 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #1294 of 2158 🔗

Bishy boffle (shakey fist point like Cameron) waffle pause wiffle pause toffle tiffle pause (shakey fist point like Cameron) Horatio Latin wiffle pause oh when the saints piffle pause go marching pause in waffle toffle pause (shakey fist point like Cameron)…

There you go. Saved you the trouble.

190675 petgor, #1295 of 2158 🔗

Masks. This is worth a look. Whilst it only confirms my view on their inefficiency, it makes sense:

https://youtu.be/NxwRNmqo1mg

190680 calchas, replying to calchas, 10, #1296 of 2158 🔗

In April of 1856, a fifteen-year-old girl named Nongqawuse heard a voice telling her that the Xhosa must kill all their cattle, stop cultivating their fields, and destroy their stores of grain and food. The voice insisted that the Xhosa must also get rid of their hoes, cooking pots, and every utensil necessary for the maintenance of life. Once these things were accomplished, a new day would magically dawn. Everything necessary for life would spring spontaneously from the earth. The dead would be resurrected. The blind would see and the old would have their youth restored. New food and livestock would appear in abundance, spontaneously sprouting from the earth. The British would be swept into the sea, and the Xhosa would be restored to their former glory. What was promised was nothing less than the establishment of paradise on earth.”

Greta Thunberg via the World Economic forum

190705 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to calchas, 5, #1297 of 2158 🔗

She killed a lot fewer cattle than Ferguson 300,000 to his 6,000,000

190718 ▶▶ chaos, replying to calchas, 1, #1298 of 2158 🔗

How old is she now? 17? Keep her away from Doris.

190858 ▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to chaos, 1, #1299 of 2158 🔗

Oh come on she looks like a goblin.

191027 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to calchas, #1300 of 2158 🔗

That girl is most definitely at least one sandwich short of a picnic!!!

Why *only* the British that would be swept into the sea?

If the old are to have their youth restored, and the dead to be resurrected, why are we worried about old people dying????

190694 stefarm, 3, #1301 of 2158 🔗

Hmm, Andy Burnham is a member of this lot*, not a conspiracy you say…..

https://www.metropolis.org/

*Thank you UK Column

190696 Thumb, replying to Thumb, 10, #1302 of 2158 🔗

I’ve been a bit bored. I’m not a great believer in the Covid data and it occurred to me that the “excess deaths” figure might not take into account population growth and ageing. So I did a bit of research and found some interesting information.

The UK population has been rising steadily. The latest figure for the population I could find is 67,886,011, which is 1,089,211 higher than the 2019 figure. It appears that the proportion of the UK population that is over 65, the age group most affected by Covid, has been increasing at a rate of 0.12% per year. As far as I can tell, it stands at 18.54% of the population, or 12,586,066.

Now, the 5 year average mortality rate for this age group from 2015-19 has been 3.76% (I’m going to round to 2DP for this ramble, but I used several more places in my calculations). However, in 2019 it was unusually low, the lowest it has been in fact for the last 10 years at 3.62%. This means that 16,778 fewer oldies died in 2019 than might reasonably be expected.

The ONS death rate data is only up to week 40, and for the 12 months leading up to week 40 in 2019, there were even fewer deaths in this age group: 23,622 fewer by my calculations.

Not wanting to sound callous, but that would appear to mean that almost 24,000 old folks were still alive who would have died in an average year.

Based on an increasing and ageing population, if 2020 were an average year, we might expect to have seen 473,208 deaths in this age group. If we add on those who unexpectedly survived 2019, that total rises to 496,870.

From week 41 in 2019 to week 40 in 2020, 501,049 people in this age category have died. That’s 4,189 more than might reasonably be expected which, to my mind, is a fairer calculation of the excess deaths in this age group.

There have been 43,293 within 28 days of a positive test, or 57,690 deaths where Covid is mentioned on the death certificate. The figure I’ve found for the proportion of Covid deaths that are amongst the over 65 age group is 88%. That means that using the former measure 38,097 deaths and by the latter measure 44,675 deaths have been counted as Covid deaths in the 65+ age group. As the latter figure is the ONS figure, and that’s the source of most of my other data, that’s the one I’m going to stick with.

So, we have 44,675 deaths ascribed to Covid by the ONS, but the figure may actually be 4,189. If that’s the case, then the number of Covid deaths in this age group is exaggerated by a multiplier of more than 10. The 4,189 figure is small enough to be a statistical blip and might suggest that nobody in the 65+ age group has died as a direct result of Covid.

My logic may be completely wrong, my numbers sourced from the wrong places or my calculations may be flawed. If so, post a comment to let me know. I’d also be interested in seeing someone do this analysis properly to see what they conclude.

190742 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Thumb, 6, #1303 of 2158 🔗

““excess deaths” figure might not take into account population growth and ageing.

Two things :

  1. Forget ‘excess deaths’. It’s a misleading term, despite its common usage. Better to use explicit historical comparisons – modes/means/ranges.
  2. Valid analysis always takes into account population and proportions derived from it. You can always suss duff data by its lack of context in both population and historical terms. That’s how it was easy to know that the Beeb was pumping out crap.

The other thing worth mentioning is that figures for ‘Covid’ deaths are so unreliable, it’s best to stick with ‘all-cause’ mortality. The ONS has to take the death registrations as a given – and we know about those as ‘true records’!

Even without looking specifically at the higher mortality for the 65+ age-group, you are absolutely right about the ‘dry tinder’ effect of the greater level survival in the ‘weak’ infection season of 2018-19. And in fact, the last few years have seen a period of historically low mortality, which has come home to roost in nearly 2020.

The effect is so pronounced that, if you average out total mortality over the two seasons, it is almost exactly the average for the past quarter of a century. Some ‘unprecedented’ event!

So – you are not wrong at all in your essential conclusions. There has been little of remark happening (except the infectious spike in April) in the longer term – and despite the narrative, there is bugger all happening now in terms of unusual infection and mortality. It’s all entirely in line with the usual pattern.

190885 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to RickH, 1, #1304 of 2158 🔗

Here’s a chart covering the last 30 years that shows the historically low mortality rate that Rick H mentions above.

191006 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Thumb, #1305 of 2158 🔗

Ivor Cummins pointed this out for Ireland/UK a few months ago, can’t remember which particular video

190699 AngloWelshDragon, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 9, #1306 of 2158 🔗

Earlier on the thread somewhere I read a discussion about people perhaps becoming less hostile to non-mask wearers. I think if exemptions are getting more acceptance it may be simply because there is perhaps some recognition that those of us who have stayed mask free, and have run the gauntlet of public hostility for the best part of 3 months, must have a legitimate reason. After all, many of the people judging us will have not wanted to wear a mask but will have caved in the face of social pressure. They will look at us and not realise that we are strong in our convictions but assume we must have a very serious medical problem for it to have been worth making such a stand. Ergo: I won’t challenge him/her because they are clearly legitimately exempt and secondly must have cojones the size of space hoppers!

190707 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 8, #1307 of 2158 🔗

Today was the first time I have been out in public since 3 October. It’s ASTONISHING how many more masks are being worn in the street.

190713 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Leemc23, 3, #1308 of 2158 🔗

Let the PATHETIC sad gits wear em, we are better than that

190720 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1309 of 2158 🔗

Thinking of them all just as ‘pathetic sad gits’ might make you feel better – but it’s a flea bit on an elephant’s arse.

190722 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 5, #1310 of 2158 🔗

I think the maskers are getting pissed off that us non-maskers are still alive. They have backed the wrong horse. Their oxygen deprived brains can’t work it out.

190789 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 2, #1311 of 2158 🔗

It starts off as virtue signaling. Then they realise how awful wearing one is. They then have a problem with admitting their mistake

190706 calchas, replying to calchas, 3, #1312 of 2158 🔗

I wonder if Public Health England will tell us today how many people died ‘with’ verrucas in the last 24 hours.

It will be interesting to see how far the figure has risen since yesterday.

190709 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to calchas, 2, #1313 of 2158 🔗

Hiccups can be very dangerous.

190926 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to calchas, #1314 of 2158 🔗

Approximately 20 people die in the UK every year as a result of falling out of bed. Think we should all be made to sleep on the floor instead!

190946 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to calchas, 1, #1315 of 2158 🔗

Many people choke to death in the UK each year. I think we should outlaw solid food. £1000 fine for serving, selling or cooking or eating anything other than thin soup.

191128 ▶▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to Two-Six, #1316 of 2158 🔗

Kim-Jong Nik has given us permission to eat gruel.

190721 helen, 2, #1317 of 2158 🔗

MONEY TALKS UPDATE 1 in English Dr Rainer Füllmich 15/10/202

WHO declares

  • “Covid no more dangerous than flu”
  • “Poor people mostly affected by lockdown”
  • “Doubling of world poverty by next year”

The Barrington Declaration

PCR test Pandemic only

Massive abuse of power by corporations not new … we will get this job done for the people

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kod8XTnhKGE

190723 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 3, #1318 of 2158 🔗

When you hear about rising deaths and exponential rises, remember that we always get an exponential rise between Sept to Nov (sometimes a factor of 10 over the period).

So it has to be exceptionally higher over that.

Boris saying more people will be in ICU than in March.

Fuck sake.

191020 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to mhcp, #1319 of 2158 🔗

That is not happening in Sweden as yet…

190724 Steve Hayes, 7, #1320 of 2158 🔗

I really do find the level of gullibility of the population depressing. Government ministers have constantly told us that they are following the science, but when asked what the scientific evidence is for any measure, they offer a Just So story. It does not matter what the measure is. Take the two metre social distancing rule. What’s the evidence? Even Public Health England’s experts can only answer: “the precautionary principle”, as if the assertion “it might be” constituted science. When asked for the scientific evidence for the ten o’clock rule, the answer is people might be less likely to observe social distancing as the night wears on and they drink more. This isn’t science: it is nothing more than making up a story that sounds plausible. The government are not following scientific evidence for their alleged anti-virus measures. The word science is nothing more than a rhetorical device, intended to hide the fact that the rules are absurd. But the so called experts are politicised. Remember how Public Health England advised the people of Salisbury to conduct a decontamination for the world’s most deadly nerve agent: throw your clothes in your washing machine and use a baby wipe for any hard objects. They really do think we are all stupid and gullible and will believe any nonsense. Unfortunately, their propaganda seems to work with the majority of people.

190727 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 3, #1321 of 2158 🔗

twat Boris up

going on about vaccines

190732 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to steve_w, #1322 of 2158 🔗

rapid tests for asymptomatics over the winter. they have bought millions

190736 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to steve_w, #1323 of 2158 🔗

for testing university students!

190743 ▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to steve_w, #1324 of 2158 🔗

he says the tests are potentially dangerous so they have to be carefully trialled.

190749 ▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to steve_w, 1, #1325 of 2158 🔗

vallance the pharmacy bloke up now

190731 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 3, #1326 of 2158 🔗

Manchester could be the route out of this. Boris just said that ICU at 40% of peak in April (lies I am sure). Cases all time high but due to lag, the hospitalizations and deaths will undoubtedly follow. As Manchester are not complying right now, if those do not happen in 2 – 3 weeks, argument over?

190752 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1327 of 2158 🔗

The argument has been over since close to Day 1. But I guess every further blunder pushes a few more over to our side.

190791 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Julian, #1328 of 2158 🔗

For you and me the argument is over. What will it take for the chin wobblers to see?

190733 chaos, 2, #1329 of 2158 🔗

Boris on at 4pm? Not acceptable. I only want to listen to Prime Minister Wanksock.

190734 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 6, #1330 of 2158 🔗

Boris now admitted we have pissed money away on useless tests based on the asymptomatic assumption.

Get this man out

191019 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to mhcp, #1331 of 2158 🔗

Can’t believe that for once I am hoping that a case brought by Jolyon Maugham succeeds!

190735 Dan Clarke, 5, #1332 of 2158 🔗

Johnson, the NWO Agent

190737 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 3, #1333 of 2158 🔗

Just picked our grandson up from school in a tier 1 area. In his bag was a folder:

”Only open this folder in the case of a further Covid lockdown”

Oh dear!

190740 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Margaret, 1, #1334 of 2158 🔗

Wonder how much it cost?

190741 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Margaret, 1, #1335 of 2158 🔗

Did it say “DO NOT PANIC” on it?

190746 ▶▶ l835, replying to Margaret, 1, #1336 of 2158 🔗

Will you have to eat it after reading?!

190750 ▶▶ ChrisW, replying to Margaret, 1, #1337 of 2158 🔗

“This message will self destruct”

190755 ▶▶ Badgerman, replying to Margaret, 3, #1338 of 2158 🔗

Go on. Open it anyway.

190769 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Badgerman, 3, #1339 of 2158 🔗

I did, it just said ‘Boo’

190886 ▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Cecil B, #1340 of 2158 🔗

It is all about visiting the zoo. Suspect there won’t be any left to visit after this.

190739 Dan Clarke, 3, #1341 of 2158 🔗

We should be thinking of banning peanuts, they are everywhere, and dangerous

190744 Ovis, 1, #1342 of 2158 🔗

Under the stress of being confronted by a superior and irresistible technology, the Xhosa developed feelings of inadequacy and inferiority.’

If this was the precondition of the Xhosa Cattle Killing, what ‘superior and irresistible’ force has generated the ‘feelings of inadequacy and inferiority’ that have infected the minds of our leaders?

Is this another chapter of the ‘revolt of the elites,’ from a caste that felt after 2016 that it was losing its grip? Or are we looking at something else entirely, such that the Xhosa comparison is unhelpful in explaining our current predicament?

190748 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 6, #1343 of 2158 🔗

Those who regularly write to MPs may find this amusing:

MSP emails constituent ‘tweak my usual response’ in gaffe
https://news.stv.tv/politics/msp-emails-constituent-tweak-my-usual-response-in-gaffe

The constituent had contacted a number of Glasgow MSPs, including Tory Adam Tomkins, about limits on wedding guest numbers as a result of the pandemic.

In his letter, the man explained he is due to get married soon and that he works in hospitality management, saying he has seen the “devastating effect” the cap on guests is having on the sector.

Tomkins replied, in a message intended for internal use: “You can tweak my usual Covid response to fit this one, I think.”

190779 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1344 of 2158 🔗

Sums them all up perfectly

190751 calchas, replying to calchas, 1, #1345 of 2158 🔗

Apparently the wikipedia entry for ‘Spanish Flu’ was edited in December 2019 order to revise down considerably the severity of that pandemic.

….. and therefore more comparable to any new pandemic.

190760 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to calchas, 2, #1346 of 2158 🔗

thought of everything

190753 Dan Clarke, 3, #1347 of 2158 🔗

The scientists have yakked on the same since this began, hardly ever watch them and can’t believe they’re using the same graphs and lines today

190754 captainbeefheart, replying to captainbeefheart, 2, #1348 of 2158 🔗

Latest guidelines:

In case of Sonic Attack on your district, follow these rules…

  • If you are making love, it is imperative to bring all bodies to orgasm simultaneously
  • Do not waste time blocking your ears
  • Do not waste time seeking a soundproof shelter
  • Try to get as far away from the sonic source as possible, but do not panic
  • Use your wheels, it is what they are for
  • Small babies may be placed inside the special cocoons, which should be left if possible, in a shelter
  • Do not attempt to use your own limbs
  • If no wheels are available, metal, not organic, limbs should be employed whenever practical…
  • Remember, in the case of Sonic Attack, Survival does mean every man for himself
  • Statistically more people survive if they think only of themselves
  • Do not attempt to rescue friends, relatives, or loved ones.
  • You have only a few seconds to escape
  • Use those seconds sensibly or you will inevitably die
  • Do not panic
  • Think only of yourselves

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwRvWpsiM2w

190787 ▶▶ CGL, replying to captainbeefheart, 2, #1349 of 2158 🔗

No one will have to worry about taking time to block their ears – they’ve all got their fingers permanently in them anyway, unless they are hypnotised watching the weekly fear porn show.

190907 ▶▶ FenTyger, replying to captainbeefheart, 1, #1350 of 2158 🔗

Hawkwind! De Montfort 1987, the reason my hearings not as good as it should be.

190936 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to FenTyger, 1, #1351 of 2158 🔗

I saw Hawkwind at Oxford Playhouse in 1987 , one of the first gigs with lazers and absolutely no health and safety at all, totally mindblowing and really quite blinding…

190976 ▶▶▶▶ stevie119, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1352 of 2158 🔗

Superb band – seen `em a few times and still got my 1988 tour T shirt!

191155 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to stevie119, 1, #1353 of 2158 🔗

One of my favourite tunes. Hurry on a sundown-Hawkwind
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vobAKWK-hWc

We did a sing along at my mates funeral to this tune and Queens Bohemian Rapsody. Actually it was pretty funny with the head-banging bit. 150 people doing the headbanging thing like in Wayne’s World.

190756 mattghg, 9, #1354 of 2158 🔗

Martin Kulldorff, one of the drafters of the Great Barrington Declaration, said this in an interview with Spiked magazine:

Most countries in Europe had a pandemic-preparedness plan which did not recommend lockdowns, but instead proposed a risk-based strategy to protect those at high risk, which is actually the same as the focused protection we put forward in the Great Barrington Declaration.

Have any of these plans been released (or leaked)? Because if what Prof. Kulldorff says is right then it blows this entire ‘rebuttal’ out of the water.

190757 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 7, #1355 of 2158 🔗

Vallance quoting modellers figures as if they are reality. Also showing R without reference to how R varied in March.

Making up shit in their own bubble

190778 ▶▶ CGL, replying to mhcp, 3, #1356 of 2158 🔗

I will never understand how anyone can believe an R number – how the hell can the calculation of that EVER be scrutinised or checked. Its purely subjective as far as I can make out and they can say it is whatever they want to say it is.

190861 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to CGL, 1, #1357 of 2158 🔗

It’s a statistical outcome. You take the number of daily cases over a period of time and the rate of expansion or contraction provides the R number. This does of course mean that the number of cases reported each day has to be both valid and reliable: and the PCR test is neither.

190869 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #1358 of 2158 🔗

Thanks – it all seems a bit arbitrary to me. And as you say – if the PCR test results are a factor then it should be completely ignored anyway.

190758 Steve Hayes, 3, #1359 of 2158 🔗

PM’s coronavirus update: Valance, our chief scientific advisor, has just told the world that modelling outcomes are data.

190761 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 4, #1360 of 2158 🔗

Is the bumbling fuck of a dictator on the TV?

190763 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Cecil B, 4, #1361 of 2158 🔗

On tv and still lying.

190773 ▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Cecil B, 4, #1362 of 2158 🔗

Die you fat bumbling tosser cunt

191415 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to Cecil B, #1363 of 2158 🔗

May I just say, Cecil B, how much you make me laugh. Sometimes, just walking along the road, on my own, no mask, surrounded by masked morons, I think about your comments and gurgle with bitter glee. I’m still laughing about last week’s ‘Does the cunt dictator have something to say? Best not listen.’

190767 Leemc23, replying to Leemc23, 11, #1364 of 2158 🔗

Well, just turned it off. Estimates. Modelling, Blah Blah fucking Blah. A multimillionaire telling the plebs how we are all going to kill the old. Can they model the numbers for the Euro millions for me ? Can they model if Sagittarius is in with Taurus and result in me getting a bad back next Wednesday?

One point to note. Boris intends to charge business for the tests. Not that this is about the money !!!

C U * T S

What is the point of this press conference? No serious what is the point. Leave people the fuck alone it’s Friday. For the love of god. Leave people ALONE !!!!!!!!

190771 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Leemc23, 6, #1365 of 2158 🔗

Ooh look its creeping up from those terrible nasty kids again. Let’s make sure they get keep getting the blame when their grannies die.

190777 ▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to CGL, 8, #1366 of 2158 🔗

Yep. Blame the kids. Not the shit show that’s the NHS or the Government. Last year Liverpool had 59 ICU beds. This year, 8 months after the pandemic started it has 61. That alone tells you what the Government really think. Pricks. I am so angry.

190822 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Leemc23, 1, #1367 of 2158 🔗

I like this game . . .

No – i bet I’m way angrier than you!

190899 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to CGL, 1, #1368 of 2158 🔗

I have 2 teenage granddaughters and I don’t think for 1 second they are going to BLOODY KILL ME.

190799 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Leemc23, 3, #1369 of 2158 🔗

Well, just turned it off.

Same here. You know when you’re listening to something and you just know it’s bullshit? This is what I’m experiencing here.

190768 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 4, #1370 of 2158 🔗

15 – 44 what kind of fucking age bracket is that??

190785 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1371 of 2158 🔗

Like his “range” estimate between 21,000 and 47,000 (or close). I noted how GSk’s Patrick Vallance made sure that the estimates got as close in range as possible to him and his mate Whitty’s 50,000 a day modelled number.

190915 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to Sarigan, #1372 of 2158 🔗

Well I agree but it’s also the massive age bracket for whom covid poses an infinitesimally small risk! Then there’s 0-14 years for whom the risk really is zero!

190770 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 13, #1373 of 2158 🔗

Valance lying – saying lots of younger people ending up in hospital because of covid. The data is the people who test +ve while in hospital (because they have ingrowing toe-nails or whatever)

190775 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to steve_w, 5, #1374 of 2158 🔗

Its absolutely shameful but they know they can say anything they like because most people are utterly credible and any expert who contradicts them will be rubbished by the MSM.

190805 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 5, #1375 of 2158 🔗

No, it’s not because they expect to be believed. If they wanted to be believed they could lie more credibly than this. They are taking the piss. This is an exercise in them proving to us that they have absolute power and we are weak. It doesn’t matter that we know they are lying: that’s the key message they want us to take away.

190815 ▶▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Ovis, 1, #1376 of 2158 🔗

Now that is a truly frightening thought….

190788 ▶▶ Kev, replying to steve_w, 5, #1377 of 2158 🔗

The Bastard isn’t saying how unbelievably inaccurate his graph of doom turned out to be

190793 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Kev, 1, #1378 of 2158 🔗

funny how he didn’t drag that out again and funny how the press never asked him about it

190856 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to steve_w, 2, #1379 of 2158 🔗

The serial lying and deception of Mr Toad is one predictable thing.

The complicity of the journo propagandists is the more serious issue.

190865 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to RickH, 3, #1380 of 2158 🔗

Just an afterthought that underlines that point :

If the media was performing its proper role, the politicians, no matter how crap, how dishonest, how devious could never have got to this stage of stuffing the public.

Those creeps in the press conferences are the worse infection IMNSHO.

190870 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kev, replying to RickH, 1, #1381 of 2158 🔗

Worse than any virus, they are scum.

190888 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to RickH, #1382 of 2158 🔗

they are worse. they were begging for another lockdown. their jobs are safe they are virtue signalling. lets see what the twats say when the worldwide poverty death stats start coming in

190798 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to steve_w, 2, #1383 of 2158 🔗

Has he mentioned the IFR of 0.05% yet ?

190809 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to steve_w, #1384 of 2158 🔗

He might be referring to attempted suicides

190840 ▶▶ RickH, replying to steve_w, 3, #1385 of 2158 🔗

Vallance has lots of boodle tied up in the vaccine industry, and he doesn’t even understand the term ‘exponential’.

As a fact – hospital admissions aren’t even at the level of those at the back end of March, and quite normal for time of year. Even the fake ‘cases’ are way below the infamous projection- and levelling off.

‘Nuff said.

190772 mhcp, 5, #1386 of 2158 🔗

Calling the standard flu rise a slower rise of the epidemic is fraud. Saying that it is slower because of the Measures is the Tiger Horn.

Never thought I’d see this.

190774 Mel, replying to Mel, 6, #1387 of 2158 🔗

“While the number has gone up, it has not risen to a rate of 3 – which would be expected without any mitigating measures – due to the restrictions which are in place.”

Oh really – I suppose you can prove its cos of the restrictions can you?

190782 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Mel, 13, #1388 of 2158 🔗

Everyone is dead in Sweden now. And Japan.

190848 ▶▶▶ Mel, replying to captainbeefheart, 6, #1389 of 2158 🔗

And London appears to have reached effective herd immunity without anyone noticing – certainly not the Mayor or SAGE

https://coronavirus-staging.data.gov.uk/details/deaths?areaType=region&areaName=London

We’re a bit behind here in the North because you locked us down all summer, Boris, you stupid twat.

190921 ▶▶▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to Mel, 2, #1390 of 2158 🔗

And now we are going to be even further behind. Levelled but not ‘up’.

190916 ▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to captainbeefheart, 1, #1391 of 2158 🔗

And all the check out staff at Tesco, ohhh no, they made even more profit and didn’t have to pay their business rates

190776 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 2, #1392 of 2158 🔗

Boris said

“the virus thrives on human contact – and we have to break that”

190781 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to steve_w, 2, #1393 of 2158 🔗

Wow!

190783 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to steve_w, 21, #1394 of 2158 🔗

People thrive on human contact too – and the government has certainly broken millions of us.

190796 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to steve_w, 4, #1395 of 2158 🔗

Can’t believe he said that.

190909 ▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Achilles, 3, #1396 of 2158 🔗

This cunt really needs killing

190827 ▶▶ RickH, replying to steve_w, 9, #1397 of 2158 🔗

Only a psychopath and narcissist could come out with that!

Put your diktats where the sun don’t shine, Mr Toad. Sane people should take absolutely no heed.

190780 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, #1398 of 2158 🔗

Boris spluttering about our sex lives and how we will manage in different tiers. lol

190784 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #1399 of 2158 🔗

WTF?

190790 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 1, #1400 of 2158 🔗

yes, viewer question about seeing his GF in a different tier.

190797 ▶▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Dan Clarke, 13, #1401 of 2158 🔗

Well at least he’s been able to “ask an expert”? Bojo probably has a girlfriend in every tier!

190814 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Charlie Blue, 5, #1403 of 2158 🔗

The only appropriate thing to say is “F. Off”

What an egregiously stupid bastard.

190802 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #1404 of 2158 🔗

… as you say …

190794 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Dan Clarke, 8, #1405 of 2158 🔗

Well, Boris never let the restrictions of marriage affect his sex life. So he’s well placed to give advice…..

190816 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Leemc23, 1, #1406 of 2158 🔗

No no no no – lalalalalala – not listening

190927 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Dan Clarke, #1407 of 2158 🔗

i understand he gets tied up by a different dominatrix every night

190786 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 11, #1408 of 2158 🔗

Last known photograph of SAGE committee, June 2021

190823 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to steve_w, 5, #1409 of 2158 🔗

Problem is, Steve, they believe they are invulnerable, and right now they seem to be right.

As I said below, that’s the real message of this blatant lying. They could lie so much better if they wished to be believed. They are deliberately taking the piss. The real message is that they are so powerful it doesn’t matter what we think.

190829 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Ovis, 2, #1410 of 2158 🔗

there have been dissenting voices even in SAGE – Mark Woolhouse for example – the clever ones are seeing the effects of lockdown (worldwide). the rest are just trapped in groupthink

190906 ▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to steve_w, #1411 of 2158 🔗

That should happen

190935 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Jaguarpig, #1412 of 2158 🔗

Sooner than June ’21

190792 AngloWelshDragon, 5, #1413 of 2158 🔗

You know to expect a massive deposit of bullshit when Boris begins a sentence with “I must level with you…”

190804 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 7, #1414 of 2158 🔗

Sam Coates from Sky is my most hated of the day

190808 ▶▶ c s, replying to Sarigan, #1415 of 2158 🔗

just made my blood boil as well

190810 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Sarigan, 7, #1416 of 2158 🔗

bubble faced cunt

190811 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Sarigan, 4, #1417 of 2158 🔗

More draconian??? Ffs!!!

190853 ▶▶▶ PatrickF, replying to CGL, 1, #1418 of 2158 🔗

Time for a population cull, Boris? That’s where your “science” is taking us: fewer people, fewer cases.

190933 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to PatrickF, 1, #1419 of 2158 🔗

Certainly need a cull of the mainstream media.

190820 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1420 of 2158 🔗

Boris:

We stand ready to apply them as soon as is necessary.

190806 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 7, #1421 of 2158 🔗

twat journo begging/demanding a harsh countrywide lockdown

190818 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to steve_w, 6, #1422 of 2158 🔗

Immature and selfish. Anyone who champions lockdowns is happy to kill everyone else but themselves. That’s the raw truth.

190819 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to steve_w, 1, #1423 of 2158 🔗

That’s our defenders of democracy in action folks.

190821 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Achilles, 1, #1424 of 2158 🔗

dreadful isn’t it

190807 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 11, #1425 of 2158 🔗

How can anyone believe any of this, and I include non-sceptics?

190875 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Achilles, 4, #1426 of 2158 🔗

Still too many believe. but fewer believe.. there are folks I know who were bedwetters just weeks ago who are now reading about the great reset…

190930 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Achilles, 2, #1427 of 2158 🔗

Efficient propaganda program coupled with the dumbest population on the planet; present company excepted.

Don’t forget, these are the people who laugh at BBC comedies.

191035 ▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Ceriain, #1428 of 2158 🔗

Too dumb to even know they are.

190812 Leemc23, replying to Leemc23, 25, #1429 of 2158 🔗

Has GSK’s “Sir” Patrick Vallance said about the good news of 0.05% IFR for the under 70’s yet ?

Has Boris “creep out and cheat on your wife” Johnson accepted that WHO have even said Lockdowns are not a good thing ?

Has Christmas been cancelled in October ?

What’s the fucking point in this ?

Sorry for the swearing, anger boiling up.

190828 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Leemc23, 8, #1430 of 2158 🔗

Sometimes we need to vent Lee. You’re among friends here.

191007 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Leemc23, 1, #1431 of 2158 🔗

Every time I hear of GSK I’m reminded of the video I saw quoting a whistleblower from there who said the covid vaccine will contain sterilising agents and that that ‘side effect’ will not show up for 7 years, when there will be a huge explosion in infertility…

191010 ▶▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to Carrie, #1432 of 2158 🔗

Eek. Do you have a link to that video?

191050 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sceptic Hank, 1, #1433 of 2158 🔗

It was on the govote youtube channel several months ago… I saw it again somewhere on Twitter last night as it had been picked up in America..

Bill G has ‘form’ when it comes to vaccines that sterilise people – he was using them years ago in Africa – so this would not surprise me. It would also explain why he wants to vaccinate kids even though they rarely get Covid 19 at all..

191052 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sceptic Hank, 1, #1434 of 2158 🔗
190813 Kev, replying to Kev, 17, #1435 of 2158 🔗

The offocial figures just released suggest around 2,500 less “cases” than yesterday, and 2 less deaths, yeah thats what I would call exponential.

The only thing exponential is the level of utter bullshit

190825 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Kev, 11, #1436 of 2158 🔗

What ? You mean that we did not get 50,000 cases today like Whitless and Bedsheet said. We did you know. ONS have given a modelled range. It could be anything between this figure and infinity and beyond. And everyone over the age of 7 has just died because you were not wearing a mask over your foot.

190902 ▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Leemc23, #1437 of 2158 🔗

Lol

190843 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Kev, 6, #1438 of 2158 🔗

Their “prediction” was for the 13th. Today’s figures are for the 15th so we should be at about 65,000 cases!

190817 Lockdown Truth, 2, #1439 of 2158 🔗

https://www.covid19assembly.org/filming

Hi. Does anyone want to take part in a film shoot in London next week? We want volunteers to hand out leaflets while we interview members of the public.

We would also film you talking to a couple of people too. You won’t be made to man a stand on your own or anything. It’ll be easy!

We’re looking looking at Thursday or Friday whichever suits you.

Please get in touch by filling in the form on the page linked above.

Thanks!

190824 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 2, #1440 of 2158 🔗

PHE woman saying we will solve this by ramping up testing

190830 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to steve_w, 7, #1441 of 2158 🔗

Boris just actually smirked at the suggestion of school holiday circuit breakers

190835 ▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Sarigan, 10, #1442 of 2158 🔗

Half term. He’s lucky that he does not even know how many kids he has let alone trying to cover their child care needs over half term.

190832 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to steve_w, 5, #1443 of 2158 🔗

If she had any ability she would not be working for PHE. She would have a proper job. If she is one of the “upper class elite” in Civil Service, who works for the system rather than the money she is not well placed to say anything that affects the 99% of the country who can’t rely of Daddy’s country estate. In short either way, she should shut up and jog on.

190833 ▶▶ Liam, replying to steve_w, 4, #1444 of 2158 🔗

They have more faith in testing than a saint has in Christ.

190839 ▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Liam, 6, #1445 of 2158 🔗

The saint would these days be socially distanced from Christ. Who in turn would probably be self isolating.

191410 ▶▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to Leemc23, #1446 of 2158 🔗

my favourite joke of the day

190862 ▶▶ Julian, replying to steve_w, 3, #1447 of 2158 🔗

Yes, the virus that is afraid of being tested for, as Peter Hitchens likes to say

190826 stewart, 17, #1448 of 2158 🔗

We have devolved back into a medieval, superstitious society.

And we are being ruled by despots and prophets whose primary concern is their own status and power.

190831 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 7, #1449 of 2158 🔗

These speeches were written back in March. Fergusons model posited restrictions two thirds of the time for 2 years. That’s what they’re doing. They’ve never changed and never will.

190834 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Achilles, 3, #1450 of 2158 🔗

Yep. Still not even acknowledged that the IFR is much much much less than the “model”.

190836 Jo, replying to Jo, 11, #1451 of 2158 🔗

“And in Wales due to a lack of a robust independent media there is panic buying rather than defiance. They said there were a lot of sheep in Wales well they’re all queuing now outside Asda.”

Anna Brees’ twitter

190855 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Jo, 5, #1452 of 2158 🔗

It’s because Drakeford has said he wants everyone to stay at home for several weeks. Well, f*** Drakeford. We are not all sheep, but there are too many.

190923 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Londo Mollari, 4, #1453 of 2158 🔗

And many of us aren’t staying at home. The Turtle’s Head can do one.

190963 ▶▶▶▶ StevieH, replying to Nick Rose, #1454 of 2158 🔗

#Metoo in Neath Port Talbot

190837 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 4, #1455 of 2158 🔗

sweden

190845 ▶▶ calchas, replying to steve_w, 2, #1456 of 2158 🔗

… and then they come back and say something like “But in Sweden there’s only like seventeen people living on about 20 trillion square miles of land.

190851 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to calchas, 13, #1457 of 2158 🔗

one day Valance will mix up his powerpoints and accidentally show a graph of the value of his pharmaceutical share portfolio

190981 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to steve_w, 1, #1458 of 2158 🔗

Or a picture of him shagging the au pair

190977 ▶▶ leggy, replying to steve_w, #1459 of 2158 🔗

One of four places we’re allowed to visit without a quarantine now right?

190838 PatrickF, 4, #1460 of 2158 🔗

Fck fck fck fck fck! We can get it through the cracks in the pavement!!
Masks for our feet?
Beff Rigby, explain!!

190842 Ceriain, 13, #1461 of 2158 🔗

I noted, before I turned it off, that he was essentially telling the people of Greater Manchester that people will die because of Manchester politicians; it’s not our fault your granny will die, it’s theirs .

Bastard!

190844 Darryl, replying to Darryl, 5, #1462 of 2158 🔗

Sadly can’t see the masses ever being too worried about their rights and liberties being taken away. One thing they are usually concerned about is their finances. This video explains the consequences of a digital currency very well – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uX7VpTqXJhY
People should be very concerned about what is coming next.

190850 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Darryl, 9, #1463 of 2158 🔗

I think a lot of the desperate noise is a vain attempt to extend Furlough for a lot longer. With two weeks to go until it comes tumbling down I can see why many will be desperate to extend it, 80% is better than universal credit (which he was quick to mention today by the way).

Ironic thing is they never needed to do any of this.

190864 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Leemc23, 7, #1464 of 2158 🔗

Extending furlough for another 6 months is probably a dead cert. The financial system as we know it is pretty much finished – the amount of digital money created world world over the past few years especially the last few months is literally of the scale.

Once we more to the inevitably digital currency, it will be yet another control mechanism for the establishment in place. Truly dystopian once you understand the consequences.

190983 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Leemc23, 1, #1465 of 2158 🔗

Which is why they are perpetuating all the nonsense. Never in the history of the world have TPTB spent so much of everyone else’s money to create an illusion of “victory” over a non existent “enemy”.

190846 Leemc23, replying to Leemc23, 11, #1466 of 2158 🔗

Hey. The country is heading home to try to get through a weekend, let’s do a 4pm presser and rabbit on about fictional testing. Modelling, restrictions and ensure that those who are suicidal kill themselves over the weekend.

A 4pm Friday press conference! Beyond contempt

190925 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Leemc23, 3, #1467 of 2158 🔗

Indeed. Even the timing of these bollocks theatricals, are all part of the ‘behavioural science’ they’re beating people with.

190847 mhcp, 2, #1468 of 2158 🔗

I’ll be looking forward to those modelling groups letting the press know that these are just models and in no way do they represent data that drives policy. That’s all up to the politicians

190849 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 10, #1469 of 2158 🔗

They have all got Covid Syndrome which is very similar to Stockholm Syndrome, a psychological response, which occurs when hostages bond with their Covid Cartel. This psychological connection develops over the course of the days, weeks, months,

190871 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #1470 of 2158 🔗

Exponentially?

190854 Jonny S., replying to Jonny S., 3, #1471 of 2158 🔗

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/cases
Can’t post the graph but needless to say very different from Vallances models

190860 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Jonny S., 3, #1472 of 2158 🔗

Also worth bearing in mind that testing has increased – last couple of days they’ve done around 300,000 tests

190882 ▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Julian, 4, #1473 of 2158 🔗

300,000 tests. 20,000 cases. 330,000 people tested Do Not Have Covid. That’s GREAT GREAT NEWS. let’s go on TV for no apparent reason and depress everyone…..

190863 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Jonny S., 1, #1474 of 2158 🔗

here

190937 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to steve_w, #1475 of 2158 🔗

Nice graph, Steve; what are you using?

191149 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Ceriain, 1, #1476 of 2158 🔗

That’s CEBM. Updated daily.

191241 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to matt, #1477 of 2158 🔗

Ta much, matt. 🙂

190996 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Jonny S., #1478 of 2158 🔗

Note the flattening out of the positive tests per specimen date. Oct 2 to 4 very similar to 9 to 11, assuming no further spreadsheet problems.

190866 AnotherSceptic, 14, #1479 of 2158 🔗

Sky’s Sam Coates.

He suggests “that daily case numbers of 40,000-50,000 a day surely justify more “draconian” action and asks whether the UK is ignoring the lessons of the first wave in not now considering some sort of circuit break, as is being contemplated in Wales.

The PM says “urgent action” is being taken with the highest prevalence and there are “areas of the country that need to do more”.

He says he believes the package of local and national measures can bring the R number back down below 1, without the need for a blanket lockdown which will close schools and businesses.

“That is the trade off. It is incredibly difficult and we think the local approach is the best one for now.”

However, he says he will not rule out the introduction of much tougher measures if needed.

And Vallance says, from an epidemiological point of view, the stronger and quicker the action, the better.“

What dirty dirty bastards.

190867 Al T, replying to Al T, 18, #1480 of 2158 🔗

Christ almighty, I’m shouting at the bloody tv. How the hell is there no challenge to this bullshit?

Why are Sky ‘reporters ‘ calling for more draconian measures? What has happened to challenge and balance and perspective in this country?

There will be a Witchfinder General appointed next.

190894 ▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Al T, 1, #1481 of 2158 🔗

Mathew Hopkins would do a better job

190904 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Jaguarpig, #1482 of 2158 🔗

Already in Parliament, we have a Matthew H…

190928 ▶▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Nick Rose, #1483 of 2158 🔗

I would set the real one on the house.

190911 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Al T, 3, #1484 of 2158 🔗

The balance is in comments from msm, the DM today Boris Brings Back the Sex ban, and the comments are hilarious. Doesnt end the situation but does show what people think

190986 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Al T, #1485 of 2158 🔗

Are sceptical reporters banned from these shindigs, or do papers only send lockdown maniacs?

191048 ▶▶▶ Al T, replying to Yawnyaman, 2, #1486 of 2158 🔗

That’s what I wondered. It’s just an echo chamber for Dr Doom and Professor Gloom.

Why is no ‘journalist’ standing up and saying that several respected Virologists and Epidemiologists are challenging their figures and the actions that arise from them?

It’s like they are all employed by ‘The Völkischer Beobachter’ or ‘Pravda’!

190872 AnotherSceptic, 11, #1487 of 2158 🔗

This is all being manipulated to make Whitty & Valances “graph of doom” predictions look like it is coming true, rather than making them look like the arseholes that they actually are.

190873 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 4, #1488 of 2158 🔗

Can someone please have a word with Matt Hancock – this is what happens when you let it rip.

https://twitter.com/nmrqip/status/1317058705658175488?s=09

190889 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Sarigan, 3, #1489 of 2158 🔗

Done

190900 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Sarigan, 3, #1490 of 2158 🔗

The only way you’ll get a word into Hancock’s thick skull is if you use a hammer and chisel. Enjoy your meet up :o))

190874 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1491 of 2158 🔗

Manchester – why is there even a conversation about this https://twitter.com/Anshul__K/status/1317124151203737602?s=09

190878 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 6, #1492 of 2158 🔗

I am signing off for the night. Too angry. Looking forward to meeting up with Two-Six and CGL tomorrow.

190890 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Sarigan, 4, #1493 of 2158 🔗

Yes I need to give it a rest too! See you then then!!!

190876 pmdl, replying to pmdl, 14, #1494 of 2158 🔗

I got one of those letters from ONS about coming to your house doing a survey and testing you. Read it, laughed and put in the bin. £50 pound payout to take part, which im sure would be tempting for a lot of people. Cash for cases, absolute scandal and fraud of the highest order.

190893 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to pmdl, 3, #1495 of 2158 🔗

Mrs Tenchy got one from the NHS and IPSOS-Mori. They’d send you a test to do yourself, and no payment! Straight in the bin.

190918 ▶▶ Smelly Melly, replying to pmdl, 2, #1496 of 2158 🔗

Is this a one off payment of £50 or is it £50 per test? If per test I’d sign up, pocket £50 and ignore any results.

190972 ▶▶▶ pmdl, replying to Smelly Melly, #1497 of 2158 🔗

Its £50 for you participating for the 1st time, and if i recall correctly £25 there after, if you re apply or they contact you again.

191002 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Smelly Melly, 1, #1498 of 2158 🔗

Swab a different vegetable each week, easy money although highly likely to see you having to self isolate.

190920 ▶▶ Lili, replying to pmdl, 2, #1499 of 2158 🔗

We got one of those. Straight in the bin. Then we got a follow up begging request. Straight in the bin – again!

190969 ▶▶▶ pmdl, replying to Lili, #1500 of 2158 🔗

I didnt get a follow up letter Lili, ill keep an eye out for it and use it to wipe my arse!

191022 ▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to pmdl, #1501 of 2158 🔗

… and then send it back to them.

191162 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Tenchy, #1502 of 2158 🔗

A young couple I know signed up for this. The swabber comes to you to do it. Second time swabber rings to arrange, they’re going out to visit family, tell him they’ll be home after 5 pm. He says he doesn’t work after 5 pm, will ring next day to re arrange. They never heard from him again. How is this a random sample survey if this is happening? coincidentally I noticed a swabber here earlier today saying they are able to make appointments up to 9 pm?
Told them to complain to ONS.

190880 Gman, replying to Gman, 2, #1503 of 2158 🔗

Does anyone know if there will be another protest tomorrow in Trafalgar square and if so what time it starts – am sure I saw something a week or two ago about a protest on the 17th Oct but when I google it I just get page after page of black lives matter protest info.

190884 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Gman, 3, #1504 of 2158 🔗

It appears so – go to events. https://www.standupx.info/

190887 ▶▶▶ Gman, replying to Londo Mollari, 1, #1505 of 2158 🔗

Great thanks.

190898 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Gman, 2, #1506 of 2158 🔗

Not at Trafalgar Square. March starting from Speakers’ Corner, Hyde Park at 1pm.

190999 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #1507 of 2158 🔗

Sadly gone very low key on the events. I have a feeling that the only chance we have of seeing 100,000 plus on the streets of London this year will be a Met police / City Hall / Celebrity endorsed protest against the US election result if it doesn’t go to plan.

Londoners on the whole don’t care about tyranny in their own country.

190883 TheBluePill, replying to TheBluePill, 28, #1508 of 2158 🔗

Just walked into a room with BBC news on the TV. Fuck me they are going full on propaganda. Firstly one of their health correspondents helpfully explained the R number…

“If your R rate is 1.5 and you have 10 infected people, they will go on to infect 15 others”. Yep, fine so far… “And then those infected people will each go on to infect another 15 people”. What? Hang on a bit, did you fail GCSE maths? Maybe I misheard, because I can’t believe a health correspondent can be so utterly stupid.

Next article, did Sweden get it right? They through up a few bar charts for total deaths in different countries and kept emphasizing the poor comparison to their neighbours. Surprise surprise there was no chart showing the complete lack of deaths in the second wave.

Next a discussion about their surprise that 40% of hospital admissions are for under 60s, which apparently shows that it is getting serious for younger people. Nope, I don’t think so BBC. What it actually shows is that at least 40% of people reported as being admitted with Covid are actually there for other reasons and have incidentally had a positive test.

Next, a little chat between the health correspondent and the newsreader trying to reassure each other that long Covid was really serious, especially in young people and we will be “talking about it for years”.

BBC One now detuned from that TV.

190895 ▶▶ FenTyger, replying to TheBluePill, 14, #1509 of 2158 🔗

Defund them, you know it makes sense!

190905 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to TheBluePill, 13, #1510 of 2158 🔗

And this is why the Government has u-turned on decriminalising the licence fee; payment for a job well done. 🙁

191003 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Ceriain, 1, #1511 of 2158 🔗

The government can’t even be bothered to be subtle about it.

190984 ▶▶ DRW, replying to TheBluePill, 3, #1512 of 2158 🔗

And yet so many still think that lying excuse for “News” is somehow trustworthy and impartial.

190891 Leemc23, replying to Leemc23, 14, #1513 of 2158 🔗

From the Spectator

“ The NHS had been preparing for a second wave with ‘Seacole Centres’ devoted to Covid convalescents. This was deemed unnecessary given the expectation that test-and-trace would would work and – it was argued – would flatten any second wave. So funding for more Seacole Centres was refused by the Treasury, and billions funnelled to Dido Harding’s outfit instead. When that failed, the NHS ended up being used as the backstop. So what’s happening now was not in the original plan”

How come Mr NHS Hancock has not resigned ? Dildo Harding too ?

190903 ▶▶ Liam, replying to Leemc23, 5, #1514 of 2158 🔗

Hospitals named after a hotel keeper who never did one minute of nursing in her life. Makes as much sense as anything else right now.

190912 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Liam, 3, #1515 of 2158 🔗

She was better than Florence Nightingale who has had an easy ride by history.

Florence killed more soldiers in the hospital afterwards from the charge of the light brigade than the Russians did.

190917 ▶▶▶▶ Liam, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1516 of 2158 🔗

Seacole was an interesting and likeable character, but she never went near a hospital in her life.

190919 ▶▶▶▶▶ Liam, replying to Liam, 2, #1517 of 2158 🔗

Anyway I don’t really want to go down this road while fanatics are burning down our way of life so I’ll say no more.

190934 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Liam, 1, #1518 of 2158 🔗

You may enjoy a book called Hell Riders if you like historical books about military idiocy.

Our military leadership and the way they treat the troops doesn’t seem to ahem changed much in 200 years.

190939 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Liam, replying to Awkward Git, #1519 of 2158 🔗

Sounds good ta, will look it up. On Max Hastings’ “Catastrophe: Europe 1914” at the mo.

191192 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Liam, #1520 of 2158 🔗

Then there’s Saul David’s ‘ Churchill’s Sacrifice of the 51st Highland Division’. Austere granite monument sombrely overlooks St Valery en Caux.

190922 ▶▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Awkward Git, #1521 of 2158 🔗

Another who wins writes the history

190908 Smelly Melly, replying to Smelly Melly, 16, #1523 of 2158 🔗

Meanwhile back in Sweden, South Korea, Japan, Belarus and all other countries that either didn’t have lock down or are now back to normal and the people are dying on the streets. Errrr sorry they are just back to normal.

190929 ▶▶ Liam, replying to Smelly Melly, 9, #1524 of 2158 🔗

Well let’s be fair, Japan has limited the number of people who can attend live events.

To 5000….

190910 Liam, replying to Liam, 28, #1525 of 2158 🔗

Well, call me Mr Angry if you like, but I say again, I want to see people hanged for this.

190913 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Liam, 7, #1526 of 2158 🔗

Get in the queue!

190924 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Lili, 5, #1527 of 2158 🔗

Or a very, very large audience…

191467 ▶▶ FlynnQuill, replying to Liam, #1528 of 2158 🔗

Hanging is too good for the bastards. How’s about hung drawn and quartered. We can then put their heads on traitors gate.

190932 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 58, #1529 of 2158 🔗

I’m not a regular pub goer but I had to laugh this afternoon. Mrs Hopkins does her shopping whilst I get my haircut from a lovely young Iranian bloke who gives me his life story about fleeing from his country (he’s Kurdish) and loves life in Leeds. He even supports Leeds united—which I thought was exchanging one miserable existence for another but of course I didn’t say that. He was so pleasant and easy going that I gave him a big tip which just shows how upbeat I was feeling.

I then went to my favourite Otley pub for just one pint (Timothy Taylor Landlord if you must know) and was greeted by the new landlord who has only just taken over the place. Gave him my name (Hopkins of course) and my mobile no. (composed of memorable dates of my life to date) and he asked me to sit down while he fetched my drink. We had a lovely chat during which his mask gradually slipped further down his face until it barely covered his chin. Our conversation was interspersed by people coming in sporting various face coverings ranging from a dirty crud stained yellow to a sparkling diamante effect (worn by a lady I should emphasise in case you were wondering).

But the biggest laugh for me was a large, over weight bloke who came in, totally unmasked, and said ‘Pint of bitter please’ to which the young bar man replied ‘have you got a mask?’. The reply was music to my ears. After all my painstaking efforts to plot the right approach for any given situation this chap said with a puff and a huff ‘can’t be bothered with all that shite—just show me where to sit and give me my beer!’ And he was served and attended to.

Horses for courses of course and we all negotiate these crazy hurdles we are faced with as best we can, I don’t think that ‘can’t be bothered with all that shite’ will secure a place in my mask resisting armoury—-but I