2020-10-17

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/10/17/latest-news-165/
Published2020-10-17T08:29:59
Last updated2020-10-17T09:44:23
Scraped2020-12-20T20:18:08
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191692 PastImperfect, replying to PastImperfect, 4, #1 of 1294 🔗

Hi

191693 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to PastImperfect, 2, #2 of 1294 🔗

Hi yourself

191766 ▶▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 9, #3 of 1294 🔗

More links an letter

Matt Hancock is wrong about herd immunity
Confusion about the Covid-19 science is hampering debate — and costing lives
BY SUNETRA GUPTA
https://unherd.com/2020/10/matt-hancock-is-wrong-about-herd-immunity/
* * * * * * * * * * * *
MP Chris Green, The First UK politician to resign from government over the crisis – 16th Oct 2020
INTERVIEW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eBSwspojh4
* * * * * * * * * * * *
From Daily Telegraph Letters

Although I am able go to shops and restaurants, I miss being able to talk to shop attendants and waiters, and having a laugh. I am hard of hearing, so cannot make out what people are saying while they are wearing a mask.

I feel isolated and lonely, as I cannot speak to anyone.

Godalming, Surrey

* * * * * * * * * * * *
My wife and I live in Essex and so from today cannot receive visitors from another household.

My daughter and her family, whom we haven’t seen since February, were coming for Sunday lunch tomorrow. That has now been cancelled.

This daughter lives in Suffolk. Another lives in Hertfordshire and a son in Cambridge. None are allowed to visit us for the foreseeable future.

However, we could visit each of them. I’m afraid the logic escapes me.

Saffron Walden, Essex

*********************************
I live in a small isolated rural village in Essex with no Covid-19 cases. I am incandescent with rage.

A Doctor From
Good Easter, Essex

191892 ▶▶▶▶ Drummermanpaul, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 24, #4 of 1294 🔗

Re the letter from the person in Saffron Walden: why have they cancelled the visit? Why not just say ‘fuck this shit’ and go ahead?

191899 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Drummermanpaul, 34, #5 of 1294 🔗

My son will be visiting today just like he has done throughout the past six months. People should ignore these stupid rules.

191962 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Rowan, 25, #6 of 1294 🔗

Exactly.Its this craven acceptance of these stupid restrictions that emboldens the government to institute more.Only mass civil disobedience will end this as our entire establishment is either too cowardly or complicit

192237 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jane in France, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 11, #7 of 1294 🔗

Yesterday evening we went to the cinema. It was a film club night and the film was introduced by one of the members. By law you have to wear a mask in cinemas in France and everyone stuck to the letter of the law. Maybe they were afraid they might be ill without knowing it. Or maybe they were so grateful to be able to go to the cinema again unlike the big cities which are under curfew from nine o’clock that they don’t want to take any risks. Still, the audience was made up of people who have been going to arthouse type films together for years, and know and presumably trust each other so you might think they would have left their masks aside. Or else the person introducing the film could have taken the opportunity to say something like, “Look, we all know masks are useless outside a hospital setting so if you don’t want to wear one please don’t bother. The police aren’t going to come busting in and we won’t tell on each other, will we, ha, ha ha?” Instead of which he talked about the director and the setting and so on through a kind of duck’s beak as though this was a perfectly normal thing to do. And we all sat meekly in our masks listening to him. Mine was down around my mouth and when the lights went out I pushed it down around my chin, but that’s as far as my rebellion went, I’m ashamed to say. The film incidentally was “Dark Waters” a true story about a lawyer who took on the gigantic American chemical firm DuPont, which had been poisoning people with impunity for years, and won. I didn’t stay for the post-film discussion, but I wonder if it occurred to any of the masked viewers that the message about fighting back applies to our current situation.

192781 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Jane in France, 3, #8 of 1294 🔗

Not surprised if the message of the film went over their heads!

192294 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Drummermanpaul, 1, #9 of 1294 🔗

Because someone else, a neighbour, would possibly, probably report them to the police, and they’d face fines or some other punishment.

192712 ▶▶▶▶▶ LS99, replying to Drummermanpaul, 3, #10 of 1294 🔗

I wouldn’t give it a second thought – caring for our elderly is a higher calling than obeying government diktats.

191788 ▶▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 8, #11 of 1294 🔗

Canadian politician leaks new COVID lockdown plan and ‘Great Reset’ dictatorship – Australia is part of it

https://cairnsnews.org/2020/10/16/canadian-politician-leaks-new-covid-lockdown-plan-and-great-reset-dictatorship-australia-is-part-of-it/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

191850 ▶▶▶▶ Eddy, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 5, #12 of 1294 🔗

Yep totally agree with this. Happening right now. Totalitarian tip-toe. Those in denial will be whacked hard.

191902 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Eddy, 6, #13 of 1294 🔗

They are no longer tip-toeing. This is unwarranted and oppressive and is all being done to prime us up for the genocidal vaccines that are on the way. This is war on the people, though most are far too stupid to notice.

191873 ▶▶▶▶ alw, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #14 of 1294 🔗
192074 ▶▶▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 5, #15 of 1294 🔗

I despair, I really do. Our NSW premier dealing with corrupt scandal in her government, nothing to see here people just wear your masks, social distance blah bloody blah people whilst my boyfried sells us out to China, Scomo, Mr bloody benevolence who wont pull the states into line, what will happen when Jobkeeper finishes you idiot, millions on the street looking for jobs, killing themselves, etc.. We have the health minister carrying on about the number of cases. When you delve into the NSW health website yesterday, 1 in intensive care not on ventilator, the 67 others looking after themselves at home thank you very much. What a load of fucking crock. Deceitful, misleading rubbish, I am angry, so angry. I urge all of you to check out Michael J Matt, and his website, very Catholic, so apologies but if you want to hear some coomon sense from the USA, remnant newspaper. He is spot on. Today about Canada, oh dear.

192258 ▶▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Girl down Under, 10, #16 of 1294 🔗

I know the feeling, I am in Victoria. I have been feeling more hopeful since I joined a campaigning organisation, it has only been going a few weeks and already has 30,000 members and has been on Sky News. It really can make a difference when we come together and bombard an MP with 1000’s of calls and emails instead of just one… we had some success with Victoria’s evil Omnibus Bill, Andrews was forced to drop the worst parts to get it through. If we had 100,000 members I think we could have had it scrapped altogether – I am hopeful we will get those numbers soon. Feel free to check out the website and facebook page R eignite Democracy Australia, it is concentrating on Vic but there must be something similar in NSW as people are finally starting to wake up.

192280 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to nat, 2, #17 of 1294 🔗

Well done. We will never stop this insanity unless the people start pushing back.

192314 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #18 of 1294 🔗

Thank you ! We can fight back, and we must.

192437 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #19 of 1294 🔗

Hear hear. Saying ‘I despair’ is NO BLOODY USE AT ALL.

193005 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to nat, 1, #20 of 1294 🔗

Hi Nat thanks for the reference. I just joined up and will look for something in NSW as well. I have been emailing politicians in NSW and some in opposition in Victoria too. They don’t always get back. Sorry for the mad rant last night folks, everything just got to me. Doesn’t help when you have spent the evening with people who are so ‘passive’ about the whole thing and then bang on about my ‘selfishness’ in expressing a desire for things to return to normal.

193006 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to nat, 1, #21 of 1294 🔗

Thinking of you this morning too. Just about to jump on Sky to see what Andrews has announced.

193350 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Girl down Under, #22 of 1294 🔗

Thank you ! A little bit more freedom. I know how frustrating it is when all your friends and family believe the propaganda. I don’t know how I could have coped without finding likeminded souls online. I am glad you joined reignite, I wonder if she could put you in touch with other members in NSW ?

193416 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to nat, #23 of 1294 🔗

I was sorry there wasn’t more easing of restrictions for you Nat. Can’t believe he is still insisting on mask wearing. And no one back in offices yet, can travel 25 ks but what an odd distance. He is such a creep. So condescending and sanctimonious. I have got a couple of sceptic friends, but most are completely taken in, which is why I skulk round here on a regular basis. I don’t feel so alone. I will make contact with reignite.

192871 ▶▶▶▶▶ Monty Bodkin, replying to Girl down Under, 2, #24 of 1294 🔗

I know how angry you are. I can ‘hear’ it in your wild post. Me too. Never been so angry for so long. Day and night. Week in, week out. There are many of us but not enough and never in the same place, which is why these pages are so important. If it weren’t for knowing there are others who feel like this, it would be hard to carry on and keep sane. Good luck. Chin up. Soldier on. We are right and they are wrong. I’m sure of that. So are you..

193012 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to Monty Bodkin, #25 of 1294 🔗

Thanks Monty.

192348 ▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 13, #26 of 1294 🔗

Dr. Scott Atlas, coronavirus advisor to President Trump:

“History will record the faces of public health expertise, as some of the most sinful, egregious epic failures in the history of public policy. They have killed people, with their lack of understanding. The policy itself is a crime against humanity.”

192439 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to nat, 4, #27 of 1294 🔗

Sinful. Wicked. Diabolical.

192523 ▶▶▶▶ Hammer Onats, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #28 of 1294 🔗

This is a load of bucking bollocks. No wonder some peop,e think skeptics are mad when they reference shite like this.

191803 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to PastImperfect, 2, #29 of 1294 🔗

You’re a hi-flier!

191694 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 56, #30 of 1294 🔗

Hang in there guys

Most people are ignoring the lockdown

191707 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to HawkAnalyst, 38, #31 of 1294 🔗

There are just so many ridiculous rules that make everything so complicated this just had to be the case. The only thing that keeps bothering me is that great, people are doing what they like(herd immunity possibly building anyway, yay) but businesses are still tied to the law. And until they all say no life still looks different going out and about.

191740 ▶▶▶ PhilipF, replying to Youth_Unheard, 25, #32 of 1294 🔗

Yes, it’s all very well individuals ignoring some of the rules – unfortunately I don’t think this happens much and only in a marginal way – when the government has business in a vice. Apart from not donning a face nappy, this gives little scope in a vast area of public life to “disobey”. Businesses will never disobey.

191897 ▶▶▶▶ Drummermanpaul, replying to PhilipF, 18, #33 of 1294 🔗

I agree with you, PhilipF. The government’s clever – well, in its shrewd use of psychology to manage the population, at least. They’ve passed the buck to the people to do their dirty work. A mixture of fear (based on fake stats), fines and fomenting division (see what I did there, with the ‘3 Fs’ ..:-)) means that they can leave ‘us’ to self-police, effectively. The threat of retribution, both fiscal, legal and social (via ostracisation) does the job nicely for the. Fecking fascists (that’s another 2 ‘Fs’ …).

192802 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Drummermanpaul, 4, #34 of 1294 🔗

Exactly. Businesses and institutions are now forced to do the government’s dirty work for them.

Still baffles me why they don’t band together to resist this. If they’re fined, they should refuse to pay.

By refusing to pay, they will waste police time and clog up the courts for 10,000 years!

192519 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to PhilipF, 3, #35 of 1294 🔗

Have a party at your place.

191733 ▶▶ Basics, replying to HawkAnalyst, 44, #36 of 1294 🔗

An entirely sleepless night next door to a rampaging party tells me you are right. A head scramble, normal time I would have broken my way in an sprayed the joint with my oozie. Today I must feel haapy and grumpy all in the same cup of coffee.

‘mon the revolution!

Ps it is still going.

191783 ▶▶▶ steph, replying to Basics, 5, #37 of 1294 🔗

Rule of 6 obviously broken there. Would be good if it hadn’t kept you awake. Which of the blessed new fangled tiers is your area in, Basics?

192556 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to steph, 4, #38 of 1294 🔗

Basic rule when there is a party next door, get round there with a couple of bottles.

191859 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Basics, 3, #39 of 1294 🔗

Good.
From a fellow sufferer of “Party central(s)”

192087 ▶▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to Basics, 2, #40 of 1294 🔗

Oozie, or ouzo?

192873 ▶▶▶ Monty Bodkin, replying to Basics, #41 of 1294 🔗

What’s an “oozie”?

193568 ▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Monty Bodkin, #42 of 1294 🔗

Colloquial mis-spelling of “Uzi”, an Israeli-made submachine gun, designed by an Israeli IDF officer to avoid the sanctions of the day, famous for its’ use by the IDF.

191798 ▶▶ CGL, replying to HawkAnalyst, 7, #43 of 1294 🔗

All that does is ‘prove’ to the lockdownistas that everyone is selfish and they just get more angry though and want us to try it again, properly next time. We need them to accept it is pointless and not have a chance to say we were why it didn’t work

192440 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to CGL, 1, #44 of 1294 🔗

Kick their tight little arses.

192525 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to CGL, 3, #45 of 1294 🔗

It doesn’t matter what we do. “They”are working to an agenda and that won’t be altered by our not playing along with their silly games.

191855 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to HawkAnalyst, 1, #46 of 1294 🔗

Hope so.

191877 ▶▶ alw, replying to HawkAnalyst, 15, #47 of 1294 🔗

Unfortunately not at Primrose Hill Farmers Market today. Until last week everyone had taken their muzzles off, unfortunately today a huge increase. Geez folks you are out in fresh air.

192527 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to alw, 4, #48 of 1294 🔗

There’s nowt so stupid as people.

191696 Fiat, replying to Fiat, 26, #49 of 1294 🔗

Enjoying this week’s Spectator. Lionel Shriver on top form with, “Covid has killed off our civil liberties “

191739 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Fiat, 4, #50 of 1294 🔗

Australian Spectator appears to have more balls than UK version. But hey.. it’s still anti-lockdown. Just pretends not to see the great reset. Though has on occassion whispered about it.

191744 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to chaos, 23, #51 of 1294 🔗

The Great Reset is just a great rehash of the New World Order that Alex Jones was warning about 20 years ago. Many of the things he was saying that seemed absurd are now coming to pass.

191770 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to karenovirus, 9, #52 of 1294 🔗

Not rehash, rebrand.
Not really nit picking but I think it’s worth saying. The G Reset has not just been chopped up in some emergency fashion. Ling slow deliberately planned. It’s a rebrand in aqua and axur blues, confidence calming assuring colours. Not Nazi red and black.

191791 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, 1, #53 of 1294 🔗

Thanks for that link late yesterday. you should repost it to give it a wider viewing. I’ve rewatched Endgame twice now, quite hard going because it’s a mess, but he even got the Social Credit thing and it was nearly 20 years ago.

191792 ▶▶▶▶ peter, replying to karenovirus, 5, #54 of 1294 🔗

Jones was well ahead of the curve calling his website prisonplanet.com

191794 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to peter, -1, #55 of 1294 🔗

Yes, pity he got so shouty and ended up as a shock jock.

191806 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to karenovirus, 3, #56 of 1294 🔗

It is a pity, I used to like Alex Jones, yes a massive American but still good to listen to. He got compromised with buckets of cash.

192027 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to karenovirus, 2, #57 of 1294 🔗

So true, I could never watch him but I think he has got more serious this year and sometimes has some good information on his site.

192010 ▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to karenovirus, 2, #58 of 1294 🔗

The Georgia Guidestones are pointing out the end game.

192034 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to PastImperfect, #59 of 1294 🔗

I didn’t pay them any attention at all but I’ll have another look. I’ve got the 2.5 hour Endgame on an external hard drive but found it yesterday on one YouTube site cut into 10 bits with Greek subtitles.
The first hour is all Bilderburg, the China stuff comes about halfway.

192019 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to chaos, 5, #60 of 1294 🔗

They have an article this week on the great reset:
https://www.spectator.com.au/2020/10/dangerous-elites-planning-the-great-reset/

Also Sky News Australia did a great piece on it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeykREAlYSg

And the UK has the brilliant UK Column ! Its taken Australians awhile to wake up but we are finally forming campaigning organisations and starting to fight back in increasing numbers.

192444 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to nat, 1, #61 of 1294 🔗

Go it.
Every little helps.
You can always bring one with you,

192875 ▶▶ Monty Bodkin, replying to Fiat, 1, #63 of 1294 🔗

Lionel is always always on top form but this was her at her best

191697 Julian, replying to Julian, 6, #64 of 1294 🔗

Matters legal:

There’s another legal case here: https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/the-coronavirus-act-2020/
Seems similar to Dolan’s main JR. People may wish to donate or read the submission.

I notice the Dolan wedding case judge seemed to rule on the grounds that what the government did was justified, rather than on the grounds that the decision was the sole province of govt and not courts. I was surprised by that – I guess it leaves the door open for another court to rule differently.

192289 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Julian, #65 of 1294 🔗

Our legal system is broken. Far too many judges seem to be in the pockets of government.

191700 Ethelred the Unready, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 20, #66 of 1294 🔗

It’s finally time for the Quiet Man, best PM we never had, IDS

191708 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 11, #67 of 1294 🔗

its is only when you see the morons we have had recently do the politicians of earlier years rise in stature .
nostalgia isn’t what is used to be !!

191758 ▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 9, #68 of 1294 🔗

I agree with his lockdown rules but his welfare reforms probably killed far more than Covid. The BMJ estimated over 100,000 people.

191759 ▶▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 2, #69 of 1294 🔗

Lockdown views I mean.

191765 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 2, #70 of 1294 🔗

See the little chain symbol 🔗 to the right ? Gives you ten minutes to edit post.

191777 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to karenovirus, 1, #71 of 1294 🔗

Many thanks, I didn’t know that.

192447 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 2, #72 of 1294 🔗

That’s a link symbol. You want the little wheel, bottom right.

191769 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 14, #73 of 1294 🔗

IDS made the lives of the sick and disabled a misery. Gove wrecked the careers and health of tens of thousands of teachers. Now Wanksock and Doris are going for glory. And who do we have on the ‘opposition’ bench? A Rockerfeller lockstep great reset man. It’s a coup, that, like Toby, IDS seemingly does not see.

Treason May and Doris should teach us that there isn’t enough checks and balances on UK democracy to stop a coup. 1922 is not enough. Neither is the lords.

191822 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to chaos, 8, #74 of 1294 🔗

And Steve Baker has been ‘bought’ with a promotion to the Privy council…

191856 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to chaos, 1, #75 of 1294 🔗

Nor the judiciary or the press.

191882 ▶▶▶ R G, replying to chaos, 6, #76 of 1294 🔗

I fall under neither category but I was unemployed while he was heading the DWP. My stint on the Work Programme and experience of the welfare-to-work industry that flourished on his watch makes it hard for me to have a positive opinion of the man.

191938 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to chaos, 2, #77 of 1294 🔗

The Lords has almost abolished itself and is now useless as a check on our maniacal government.

192050 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Rowan, 1, #78 of 1294 🔗

As has the Church of England and other denominations.
Which reminds me. A Moslem friend told me last week that one of the tenets of public prayer requires that they group together closely, the 2 meter rule upheld by his Imam invalidates this in his opinion.

191942 ▶▶▶ Humanity First, replying to chaos, 1, #79 of 1294 🔗

I think the ‘blindness’ to the -overwhelmingly obvious- big picture may be selective or self-preserving…

191787 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 3, #80 of 1294 🔗

Post-Doris caretaker, but nothing more.

192012 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 5, #81 of 1294 🔗

Osborne was the guilty party re Universal Credit.

IDS resigned over cuts to it that caused unforgivable hardship to a large number of people.

Best choice to take over, in my view.

192055 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Ethelred the Unready, #82 of 1294 🔗

Putting Sir Ian in charge of the country is probably about as sensible as putting Sir Jimmy in charge of Childline.

191774 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Eddy, 4, #84 of 1294 🔗

Good to see it getting an airing but paying off everyone’s personal debt is fanciful nonsense. Where would they get the money to pay off mortgages and why would they want to ?
Perhaps to sequester your home in lieu of massive tax rises ?

191815 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to karenovirus, 2, #85 of 1294 🔗

Hyperinflation will ‘pay off’ debt and destroy savings at the same time. Can’t have one without the other.

191918 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to karenovirus, 2, #86 of 1294 🔗

That’s the magic of fiat. The difference between £1 and £100,000,000,000 is really just a few more taps of the zero key.

191810 ▶▶ jb12, replying to Eddy, 4, #87 of 1294 🔗

Smells like bullshit to me. Very specific, with things like debt cancellation making no sense.

192319 ▶▶▶ Mark H, replying to jb12, #88 of 1294 🔗

What, if anything, about any of this makes sense?

191831 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Eddy, 2, #89 of 1294 🔗

Saw this yesterday and called BS. It’s probably disinformation

191889 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to PoshPanic, 1, #90 of 1294 🔗

Well then you’ve done exactly dick for research, because it’s fucking everywhere. They’ve even published books on it!

It’s right the fuck THERE….. you need but eyes and a brain to see it.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/COVID-19-Great-Reset-Klaus-Schwab/dp/2940631123

191945 ▶▶▶▶ Eddy, replying to TyLean, #91 of 1294 🔗

Spot on right in our faces now.

191838 ▶▶ Eddy, replying to Eddy, 5, #92 of 1294 🔗

They will never lock populations down. It’s just a conspitact theory…

191885 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Eddy, #93 of 1294 🔗
192030 ▶▶▶ jb12, replying to TyLean, 3, #94 of 1294 🔗

Eh, there’s a difference between thinking there is an attempt at a societal reset and believing that this specific plan is how it will go and to what schedule.

192041 ▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to jb12, 3, #95 of 1294 🔗

It’s pretty advanced in Melbourne. Even the MSM here are starting to notice.

191896 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Eddy, 4, #96 of 1294 🔗

Okay…. let me clarify some delusion on this. IT AIN’T FOR YOU! The Great Reset might wipe out some debts (and that’s another discussion on how the money we have is created as debt), but it’s FOR THEM. We will be dragged into the one-world, digital currency accessible through microchip. Go google ‘Trust Stamp Africa’ which is a a GAVI and Mastercard venture.

Furthermore, the hyperinflation is inevitable at this point. The “money printing” going on right now is insane. 2008 kicked the can down the road, and now this is how they are really going to sort it out.

BUT FOR THEM….. Not you! Don’t be a fool and think you’ll benefit from this. You may in some small way, but just like furlough now, it isn’t worth the true cost. It’s a pittance compared to what you are going to lose.

191955 ▶▶▶ Eddy, replying to TyLean, 1, #97 of 1294 🔗

You got it. I can’t understand people on here still banging on about cases and test n trace. The HAMMER is coming down on us FAST

192044 ▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Eddy, #98 of 1294 🔗

So true.

191712 chris, replying to chris, 8, #99 of 1294 🔗

When will the cost of Rishi’s borrowing cause a banking crisis, pretty soon, I’d say. Christmas?

191750 ▶▶ DRW, replying to chris, 5, #100 of 1294 🔗

QE will put it off.

191943 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to DRW, 1, #101 of 1294 🔗

QE is borrowed money.

191752 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to chris, 11, #102 of 1294 🔗

My suspicion is that the only effect the money printing will have is to guarantee that negative interest rates are imposed across the board. That’s the only alternative when your debt is so large that you can’t even pay the interest.

The government will continue with their bread-and-circuses policy until they can no longer find a way to pay the jobless to watch Netflix.

At this point something will snap (it doesn’t matter what), and in a few short weeks London will be Harare-on-Thames .

On the bright side, at least we won’t have to push around wheelbarrows of cash.

With digital payments, the £100,000,000 it will cost us to buy a loaf of bread takes up exactly the same space as the £1 we currently pay.

191755 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Mabel Cow, 7, #103 of 1294 🔗

Hence why I am seriously considering getting into cryptocurrencies.

191761 ▶▶▶▶ chaos, replying to DRW, 6, #104 of 1294 🔗

I did that. I mined around ten coins in the early days of bitcoin. They increased a little. I though this aint going anywhere so I sold them and bought two large pizza hut pizzas. I am possibly the only person to have spent £200k on pizza. I could have bought a pizza hut franchise or a house..

191795 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to chaos, 3, #105 of 1294 🔗

Ouch, that’s got to hurt.

191893 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ chaos, replying to Two-Six, 2, #106 of 1294 🔗

I laugh about it now. But to own my own home…. sigh

192410 ▶▶▶▶▶ takeme, replying to chaos, #107 of 1294 🔗

I think you actually spent around £87,600 for those two pizzas at today’s prices. Still a lot for a takeaway!!

(one bitcoin = £8,760)

191808 ▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to DRW, 3, #108 of 1294 🔗

It would be very sensible to hold some crypto.

191863 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to leggy, 3, #109 of 1294 🔗

Hoard gold and food.

191911 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to karenovirus, 3, #110 of 1294 🔗

Add medicine, vitamins, building supplies, fuel.

192065 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to TyLean, 1, #111 of 1294 🔗

As we went into lockdown all the building and construction firms went on a binge of stockpiling materials, one reason they were still in short supply months later.

193870 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to karenovirus, #112 of 1294 🔗

Yes; gold, silver and food would be a very good idea indeed. Food for the short term, gold and silver to preserve your savings to the “other side” of the hyperinflation.

191907 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to DRW, 3, #113 of 1294 🔗

Considering the governments of the world seem to be intent of destroying all their currencies it does seem the time has come for opensource money. We don’t actually need their currencies, their banks, their financial system. It does seem for anyone who does not want to get railroaded into their digital enslavement system its the only real choice.

192066 ▶▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Saved To Death, #114 of 1294 🔗

Regarding using cash, one ends up with gazillions of small coins – and the charity boxes seem to have disappeared. Moreover, it takes a while to select the appropriate coins from the depths of ones purse. To avoid these disadvantages and remain anonymous, it should be possible to create a kind of “Cash Card” that can be purchased and replenished with cash and used in the same way as a credit/debit card – or am I reinventing the wheel?

193872 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to PastImperfect, #115 of 1294 🔗

Bad idea; this exists already, but to avoid evil money-launderers, you can’t get one of these cards unless you prove your identity. So no anonymity is permitted.

We do have an alternative of a plastic card which is anonymous. It’s called cash; i.e. plastic banknotes.

For larger sums and the longer term, there is gold and silver. No other anonymity is available, which is of course why they are trying their utmost to get rid of cash.

“Please use contactless payments rather than cash where you can”, as it says on the sheeple’s tills.

192392 ▶▶▶▶ takeme, replying to DRW, 1, #116 of 1294 🔗

People invest in cryptocurrencies – like the most well known,bitcoin – because they are the ultimate hedge against government inflated currencies like the £ and $. Governments cannot control cryptocurrencies, which is why they are hostile towards them.

191908 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Mabel Cow, 2, #117 of 1294 🔗

Haha! That’s an excellent silver lining about the wheelbarrows of cash. We won’t have to count the stuff either!

192028 ▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to TyLean, 2, #118 of 1294 🔗

Our future: A totalitarian state with all the convenience of shopping on Amazon. 🙂

192060 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mabel Cow, #119 of 1294 🔗

The beeb were reporting about the Bank of England asking banks if they were ready for negative interest rates this past week.

191713 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 5, #120 of 1294 🔗

Chris Christie confirms that he is not the sharpest cookie.
The Mask zealots themselves have spread the granny killer message, grasped and are convinced that the Mask doesn’t protect oneself from catching it.
So if he should have worn a mask, he’s either dumb, or the spreader who should have stayed at home or got his temperature taken, sorted.
If you are a ton overweight, you are very likely to get symptoms.
Restrict yourself, but you don’t have any right or case to demand the same from others.

191714 watashi, replying to watashi, 21, #122 of 1294 🔗

Morning everyone. Feeling positive here in the midlands. it`s sunny and I talked a friend out of unthinking compliance last night. A good feeling!

191913 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to watashi, 3, #123 of 1294 🔗

Well done you!

191949 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to TyLean, 6, #124 of 1294 🔗

Only another 69 million to go, but good on you.

192453 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Rowan, 2, #125 of 1294 🔗

One by one. It’s a start.
‘It’s the job as is never started that takes longest to finish’ (Ham Gamgee)

192841 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to watashi, #126 of 1294 🔗

Well done!!

We will prevail – slow and steady wins the race.

191715 bucky99, 60, #127 of 1294 🔗

From the comments on the teachers union article in the Telegraph:

“A circuit breaker is an incorrect term. When a circuit breaker operates it is because there is a fault. If you leave it for two weeks and switch it on again it will trip again, the fault is still there”.

Personally think that sums the idea up perfectly! Pointless.

191718 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 9, #128 of 1294 🔗

Don’t look to parliament or politicians to sort this out

John Major, the then cream of the crop, shagged Edwina Curry

It tells me all I need to know about these cretins

191741 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Cecil B, 7, #129 of 1294 🔗

Exactly.

(We must have all heard this one by now…)

“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it.”

-Albert Einstein

191796 ▶▶ peter, replying to Cecil B, 3, #130 of 1294 🔗

Sturgeon and Salmond were a couple in the 90s, hence her rise to the top of the SNP.

191868 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to peter, #131 of 1294 🔗

Not forgetting Jeremy and 👫 Diane

192003 ▶▶▶▶ peter, replying to karenovirus, 4, #132 of 1294 🔗

Can u imagine diane sitting on jez’s face, ‘I can’t breathe’..

191719 Old Normal, replying to Old Normal, 10, #133 of 1294 🔗

“The global population is roughly 7.8 billion people, if 10% have been infected that is 780 million cases. The global death toll currently attributed to Sars-Cov-2 infections is 1,061,539.

“That’s an infection fatality rate of roughly 0.14%. Right in line with seasonal flu and the predictions of many experts from around the world.”

Taken from Off Guardian.

The WHO confirmed recently that the global IFR is around 0.14% by stating the number of those infected (probably much higher) and the number of deaths (probably much lower in reality died FROM rather than WITH the virus).

Yet this BBC article states as fact that the IFR is around 0.5% – total nonsense.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54570373

191735 ▶▶ Marialta, replying to Old Normal, 7, #134 of 1294 🔗

Yes, I’m just reading the BBC News on my phone “Covid:how worried should we be? James Gallagher says he will “keep this really straight and simple…. He says overwhelming majority of people do recover blah blah but then that 1-3% of people who catch the virus will require hospital treatment.the IFR is 0.5% or one in every 200 people infected which is 5-25 times more deadly than seasonal flu, despite ongoing myths that Covid is just like flu.” Tbh if this is the first news people see on theIr phones this Saturday morning I think our battle is lost.

191742 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Marialta, 10, #135 of 1294 🔗

Those with Twitter should challenge him on Twitter. I have also complained about the article to the BBC as we all should.

191780 ▶▶▶▶ Old Normal, replying to Sarigan, 7, #136 of 1294 🔗

Someone has mentioned it to him on Twitter already. I just complained about the article too.

191992 ▶▶▶▶ Marialta, replying to Sarigan, 3, #137 of 1294 🔗

thanks for suggestion- my first complaint to MSM ! Won’t be the last

191829 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Marialta, 7, #138 of 1294 🔗

About 10 or so years ago there was rioting in Belfast, in an estate that is predominant Loyalist (a group of society that are strongly proud of their British heritage as opposed to simply believing that the Union is a good thing)

The rioting was about ex-parimilitaries who were still running crime rackets and the local residents were fighting back. Factions were fighting and the police were called in.

The BBC in London reported the riots as “terrorist related”

I showed it to all my friends in the office, mostly English guys, some Middle Eastern.

I asked “What do you think this is about?”

They all said: “IRA”

Loyalists are the exact opposite of the IRA and in the past have links to collusion with the Army and the Police in killing Catholics. This is widely known in Northern Ireland as is the other way: Irish police helping the IRA – in fact sometimes there’s a mix of a whole load of things.

The point is that just be leaving out “Loyalist” the narrative would continue to focus on “those bloody IRA supporters”

So I’m in no way surprised the BBC are a shower as I’ve seen it all my life.

192241 ▶▶▶▶ TT, replying to mhcp, 1, #139 of 1294 🔗

And your Middle Eastern colleagues will surely have been familiar with this kind of reporting from the same outlets about factions in their respective home countries (as in tarring shiite iran and Lebanese Hezbollah with the same ‘fundamentalist islamist’ brush as Al Qaeda and Da’esh/ISIL, as if these all share the same goals, methods and policies… conveniently omitting the fact that the latter have been most ruthlessly assaulting the former, and vice versa). At least the C-word episode has demonstrated to many in the EU and US how rigorous reporting standards by the ‘independent media’ are just as much of a myth as the whole ‘pandemic’…

191867 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Marialta, 2, #140 of 1294 🔗

Collaborators believe anything and everything they are told.
Sceptics use their common sense and question things.

191776 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Old Normal, 3, #141 of 1294 🔗

That’s atrocious, even by the corona porn new standards.

191804 ▶▶ Jon G, replying to Old Normal, 4, #142 of 1294 🔗

Exactly the same occurred to me (& prob anyone else paying attention) when the WHO said 10%.

The ‘get out’ is that maybe only 5% have had it – in which case it’s not very infectious is it?! Can’t have it both ways.

Also on Worldometers, which isn’t great but does an OK job of collating data, the proportion of currently infected people in the ‘serious or critical’ category is 1%.

We know that the majority of ‘serious or critical’ survive (reasonable to assume that there are more serious than critical), and also that known ‘currently infected’ will only be a proportion of the actual number.

Taking those two facts (I think it’s fair to say facts) into account, the IFR would be well below 0.5%, quite possibly in the 0.2% region.

With the virus spreading more evenly across the population (as opposed to the early days with disproportionate Covid in healthcare settings), a better understanding of the numbers actually infected, better drug treatments and therapies, and a possible vaccine of at least some efficacy, I think 0.2% is a fair guess as to the eventual IFR, poss erring on the high side.

That, along which which people are actually at risk (ie the elderly frail), fundamentally determines how we should be viewing this virus, and it really isn’t in a different ballpark to how we view flu.

Those numbers are extremely basic. I’m not medical or mathematical, but I can (I think) apply common sense and reason to a situation. I genuinely don’t understand how people can argue against those basic inferences.

191888 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Jon G, 2, #143 of 1294 🔗

most people should be more worried about normal flu which doesn’t confine its fatality to the elderly frail and, without it being a bad flu season, is currently killing 10 times more than the covid.

191809 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Old Normal, #144 of 1294 🔗

if 10% have been infected

If. Ryan said in answer to the question

This is a question to Dr Ryan. Last week Dr Ryan announced – it was last Monday – that 10% of the world’s population might be infected by the COVID so the first question would be how do you get to that figure. With so many people infected do you suppose the fatality rate is much lower than we thought before and similar to the flu fatality rates?

So the question is, can we still say that COVID is more worrying than the flu?

the following

I made my remarks, I believe, at an executive board meeting with our member states where what I was actually trying to communicate was that the vast majority of human beings on this planet remain susceptible to the virus. I believe what I said was that many studies had demonstrated that 10% or less of people had been infected although that was very variable with some slum areas, high-risk populations like health workers being much higher.

So I was using that 90/10 as an illustration of the fact that most people in the world were susceptible. In fact in many countries that seroprevalence is very low but again what you have to remember is some of those seroprevalance studies were done a number of months ago.

What we currently have is a lot of work going on to summarise all of the serologic studies that have been done. We also have a series of unity studies which are longitudinal studies which are studying seroprevalance around the world or the number of people who have been infected much more systematically.

So from that perspective you can say that, if you look at some of these studies, on average 10% or less; in some it’s much less and in some studies much more.

followed by a colleague

The results indicate across all of these 150 studies that, as Mike has said, the vast majority are below 10% with the exception of some high-incidence areas that are above 20/25% and some even higher.

So I have to say that the 10% figure is taken out of context.

191845 ▶▶▶ Jon G, replying to Richard Pinch, 3, #145 of 1294 🔗

Important information and very much worth posting.

Hypothetically if 5% of the global pop have had the virus then the IFR is roughly half what the BBC quoted.

Would be good to know, right?!

Bear in mind we’ve been given steadily decreasing IFR estimations for most of the year, starting at 8% (although that was heavily caveated with an acknowledgement that that was prob more like a case fatality rate), down to 4.2 (WHO I think), then 2, then 1, now 0.5.

I would categorise those estimations as being accepted at the times they were given by the mainstream scientific community.

They’re partly dropping for the factors I previously mentioned, but surely also because they were also predictions to suit a political agenda.

Remember when Trump predicted less than 1% (or something along those lines) and was absolutely pilloried for it?

191876 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Jon G, #146 of 1294 🔗

Would be good to know, right?!

It would indeed. But the notion of a single global IFR doesn’t really make much sense. We already know that the IFR is hugely dependent on age. Since the age structure of the global population is quite different from that of the UK, say, we would expect a different IFR globally. For example, we have twice the proportion in the 65 and over age bracket.

191914 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jon G, replying to Richard Pinch, #147 of 1294 🔗

Completely agree, but just as a comparison to other communicable diseases (for which I assume there’s an established universal IFR?) it might help to put it in some context.

Further to your point, the western perception of the disease as such a serious threat must in no small part be due to the proportion of our population that has higher vulnerability.

But the western response will surely cause serious harm in younger populations across the world that are never going to suffer much from the disease itself.

It’s perverse really.

192024 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #148 of 1294 🔗

Come on…..

We don’t have any idea what the IFR is.

There is no definition of ‘infection’ or ‘case’

This is what we do know, for sure:

‘In August 2020, there were 34,750 deaths registered in England, 2,060 deaths fewer than the five-year average (2015 to 2019) for August; in Wales, there were 2,379 deaths registered, 116 deaths fewer the five-year average for August.

The leading cause of death in August 2020 was dementia and Alzheimer’s disease in England (accounting for 10.9% of all deaths) and ischaemic heart disease in Wales (11.0% of all deaths); both leading causes of death were the same in July 2020.

The coronavirus (COVID-19) did not feature in the top ten leading causes of death in August 2020, in England or Wales. In England, COVID-19 was the 24th most common cause of death’

Further update in a week.

Talk then….

191960 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Old Normal, 6, #149 of 1294 🔗

Don’t watch, listen or read anything from the BBC. None of it is good for the mind.

191720 Ben Shirley, replying to Ben Shirley, 8, #150 of 1294 🔗

There was a poster yesterday who questioned some of the LS wisdom in claiming that rising cases weren’t being linked to a rise in Covid hospitalisations and deaths, when the graphs do clearly show a rise in hospitalisations and deaths. He was met with some hostility, which disappointed me as he was putting a reasonable question forth in a polite fashion, and if we are to claim the moral and intellectual high ground it is not enough to scrutinise the oppostion – we must all be willing to scrutinise ourselves. Anyhow, that’s beside the point.

Yesterday’s poster ended his post by saying that he was ardently against the lockdown, even though he acknowledges that Covid is a very real and potentially dangerous illness.

As a libertarian, that was my position back in March. I knew there’d be the usual band of crusties and oddballs out to claim it was all an elaborate ruse, and I was keen to distance myself from them. Yes, the lockdown is wrong, but Covid is still a reality and we need to address it honestly to mitigate its impact on public health.

But that was then, this is now. Over 43,000 people have now died in this country from Covid, apparently, but we know for a fact that the overwhelming majority of them were elderly and/or severely ill anyway. An American study found that only 6 per cent of Covid deaths did not have any other co-morbidities. Add to that the fact that testing is so obviously flawed, and at least 91 per cent of positives are false, and how many real Covid cases does that actually leave? The virus’s existence has never been proven because it has never been isolated. If it’s so damn prevalent, surely isolating it should be the easiest thing in the world right now. Why has no one done it?

I am questioning my own rationality, but right now it seems to make more sense to presume the virus does not exist than to assert that it obviously does. That would require the burden of proof, which cannot be fulfilled. Am I losing my mind, or did the conspiracy crew get it right up to a point?

191820 ▶▶ jojo, replying to Ben Shirley, 4, #151 of 1294 🔗

The virus’s existence has never been proven because it has never been isolated. ” –>
From the CDC page updated May 5, 2020: SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, was isolated in the laboratory and is available for research by the scientific and medical community .

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/lab/grows-virus-cell-culture.html

191919 ▶▶▶ Ben Shirley, replying to jojo, 3, #152 of 1294 🔗

Well, that’s interesting. There are a lot of people on our side insisting that Covid has never been isolated, enough of them that I had come to accept it as true without questioning. See the Illusory Truth Effect. If that claim is so easily disproven, we risk embarrassing or discrediting ourselves quite severely.

191927 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Ben Shirley, 3, #153 of 1294 🔗

I’ve been trying to point out that this claim is untrue for months now. I think that claiming the virus doesn’t exist is incredibly dangerous for our credibility. Even if it were true that the virus hasn’t been isolated (which as jojo points out, it isn’t) it would _still_ be very dangerous for our credibility. And it’s also irrelevant to the argument.

191995 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Ben Shirley, 7, #154 of 1294 🔗

Iirc, guy153 posted electron microscope pics of it months back, as matt occasionally points out here.

A lot of things are blithely asserted down here (and even above the line) which don’t stand up to examination. This is normal – these are complicated matters with highly motivated people discussing them.

Don’t rely on a fact asserted here, no matter how frequently, without checking it yourself, wherever possible. There are some commenters here whose assertions I have come to take quite seriously because they’ve proved pretty reliable (matt, guy153 and a few others), but even for them I’d check if possible before relying on it (though I didn’t for guy153’s pictures, for instance, because I don’t regard that as particularly in doubt).

Free discussion is the only defence against this problem, as you imply, and dissenters are beneficial here in this regard. djaustin, mayo and Richard Pinch often point out inconvenient facts here (and often suffer heavy down-voting in response), which can be very annoying, but is nevertheless vital.

192733 ▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Mark, 3, #155 of 1294 🔗

Thanks. I come here precisely BECAUSE I am skeptical. and always want to see all sides of an argument But ultimately I am a scientist driven to understand the epidemic. Science will out in the end and cares not for what we want to believe (sadly). I don’t worry about down-voting, I’m no politician 😉

192800 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ben Shirley, replying to djaustin, 2, #156 of 1294 🔗

Thanks Jojo, Matt, Mark and Djaustin for your replies. Like the rest of you, I’m interested in knowing the truth rather than ignoring it for the furtherance of my agenda, and I’m glad you’ve helped steer me away from dangerous misinformation (actual misinformation in this case, not whatever Facebook and Google call misinformation).

192240 ▶▶▶ ianric, replying to jojo, 2, #157 of 1294 🔗

It is correct to say the virus has been proved to exist and it can be harmful to our cause if we deny something which proves to be true. However, has there been conclusive evidence given regarding other aspects of the virus. A critical question is how coronavirus spreads. The justification given for the draconian restrictions is that coronavirus is highly infectious and if rules were not in place, coronavirus would spread. As per the link, I put in a FOI request to ask for evidence the government has on how coronavirus spreads and they were unable to answer this question. As per the recommendation of NHS England, I contacted Public Health England and I have yet to receive a reply. If coronavirus was so infectious as to justify draconian laws and there was clear evidence of this, surely the government should have no problem in providing evidence of this. The government should provide clear evidence to justify laws. For instance, drink driving laws can be justified on the basis there is clear evidence alcohol can impair senses when driving. Imagine if the government made it illegal to drive after taking a drink when there was no evidence the drink impaired senses.

https://www.keepbritainfree.com/forum/activism/how-coronavirus-spreads?origin=member_posts_page

191821 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ben Shirley, 2, #158 of 1294 🔗

Even here in Sweden hospitalisations have gone up over the last month, but NOT (as yet anyway) the number of deaths…

191830 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Carrie, 1, #159 of 1294 🔗

If the number of hospitalizatons for anything goes up at this time of year, then all that has to happen is for the positive test rate to stay the same -and hey presto you have more Covid hispitalizations.

Manipualting Statistics for Beginners Chapter 3

191823 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Ben Shirley, 1, #160 of 1294 🔗

It’s impossible to know whether or not covid hospitalisations and deaths have really increased significantly (and you’d expect some increase in the autumn/winter anyway) because we are not being told whether the supposed admissions and deaths with a positive test are actually people with or being treated for covid symptoms, or just happen to have tested positive while being treated for a broken leg or heart attack.

191827 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #161 of 1294 🔗

Hospitalized for Anything +Positive Test =

Covid Hospitalization

192020 ▶▶▶▶ Marialta, replying to calchas, 1, #162 of 1294 🔗

The term ‘hospitalisation’ needs to be unpicked! A person who presents at A/E and is discharged within 24 hrs is not counted as an admission. Even if they stay overnight on a ‘short stay Ward’ as long as they’re out within 24 hrs. People present at A/E with any number of lesser complaints and are discharged as quickly as possible to keep bed occupancy on wards as low as possible, this is standard practice. My guess is that currently those presenting at A/E with respiratory symptoms + anxiety over Covid may be being described as ‘hospitalisations’ which means virtually nothing.

191824 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Ben Shirley, 15, #163 of 1294 🔗

If Covid was as dangerous as advertised, then they wouldn’t have to manipulate the figures so egregiously as they have obviouly done.

That alone tells you a great deal.

191989 ▶▶ djaustin, replying to Ben Shirley, 2, #164 of 1294 🔗

Perfectly reasonable and rationale arguments. But I would countenance against the “can’t be isolated”. There are some lovely pictures here -viruses are large enough to image by electron microspcopy. After imaging the next step is to look at the genetic make up of the virus, and that has been done too. This virus has been shown to infect other animals, is similar to (but less deadly than) the other coronaviruses SARS-COV1 and MERS. It is a real infectious agent that causes a different disease to influenza and other respiratory pathogens.

192061 ▶▶ hat man, replying to Ben Shirley, 1, #165 of 1294 🔗

No, Ben, you’re correctly questioning a lot of other people’s rationality, that’s all.

The latest irrational move is of course to point to rising hospitalizations and deaths, without understanding or admitting that that always happens in the autumn anyway.

Any one of us could have seen that one coming months ago, but still the zealots are
getting away with it.

191724 captainbeefheart, replying to captainbeefheart, 21, #166 of 1294 🔗

IDS is probably just speaking out because he’s scared of getting lynched like the rest of them. This is the man who cheered when they got the Universal Credit stuff through (because it was him that worked on it)

This act has caused lots of misery – especially amongst us who have been forced to have our businesses shut down. Thanks to him, you can now wait up to 6 weeks to start getting a whopping £80 a week.

I personally think this is a bargain. I’ve paid over £400,000 in direct taxes on what I have earned in the last 10 years, to get £80 a week back when I really needed it is an insult.

Go and do one Ian, you disgusting little toad.

191753 ▶▶ chaos, replying to captainbeefheart, 16, #167 of 1294 🔗

The tories have been kicking the sick and disabled for ten years. Labour started it, but the tories accelerated and weaponized it. Now everyone is getting a kicking. Due to social distancing etc the sick and disabled are now being left alone and not subjected to face to face Atos/Capita/etc trickery. Though most of the sick and disabled still struggle to get PIP even by phone interviews.

Finally we are mostly all now in the shit together. When the dominoes finally fall.. by this time next year a third of the country will be unemployed.

191763 ▶▶ maggie may, replying to captainbeefheart, 10, #168 of 1294 🔗

i may have this wrong but i seem to remember that IDS resigned from the government because his idea of Universal Credit, which doesn’t seem a bad one, was so messed around and altered and degraded before being introduced.

191781 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to maggie may, 1, #169 of 1294 🔗

Caligula Cocaine Gideon Osborne.

191784 ▶▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to chaos, 2, #170 of 1294 🔗

comment image &f=1&nofb=1

192070 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to maggie may, 5, #171 of 1294 🔗

agree. IDS studied the problems in depth and I was very impressed at the time with his commitment and sincerity in terms of improving the system for all. Other people messed it up and he got the blame.

191725 Stuart, 9, #172 of 1294 🔗

As the paranoia mounts, Covidites can be spotted by their wild, bloodshot, wide-open darting eyeballs and their sudden, jerky distancing movements.

The fleck and spume of their dribbling is fortunately hidden to our eyes by their masks.

When their blood oxygen falls to danger level due to the self-inhaling of their own carbon dioxide emissions unconsciousness and blessed insanity cannot be far off.

191726 chaos, replying to chaos, 13, #173 of 1294 🔗

Some thoughts:
Not all 650 MP’s are in on this great reset. Some are compliant thick bedwetters like the masses going along with the dik dats and demands. Believing ‘the science’. Besides, the coup has effectively sidelined democracy…

I suspect that even Klaus Shwab is not in on all of the details. Perhaps not even Kier or Boris. Someone high up in the elite skullfuckery pyramid knows that man-made climate change is a lie.

In other words, are Klaus, Charles. Carrie, Stanley, Wanksock Kier et al’s goals different to say The pyramid goals of those at the pyramid peak aka the likes of the Rockerfellers? The former want Shangri-la windfarms combined with digital ID dystopia. Some want compulsory vaccinations and digital currency. The peak of the pyramid is more interested in a depression, a contraction of the debt money supply… and a digital ID/cashless society. And green tech helps to contract that debt money supply by reducing consumption and creation.

Feel free to add your thoughts…

191743 ▶▶ Basics, replying to chaos, 6, #174 of 1294 🔗

Trilateral. Club of Rome. Are perhaps the aim of where Klaus Schwab wants to mingle.

What does he have on world leaders though? How is it the are cohesively joined to him in this collapsing of civilisation?

Surely must be more than money or blackmailed via video tapes of acts. What is the mechanism that is unifying them?

191839 ▶▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to Basics, 1, #175 of 1294 🔗

Quite. Conspiracy cults always split and denounce each other. People trying to use an existing situation to pursue their own aims and shaft the other lot is, of course, not conspiracy but strategy!

192900 ▶▶▶▶ Monty Bodkin, replying to Caroline Watson, #176 of 1294 🔗

Splitters. (Python’s Life of Brian ).

191793 ▶▶ RichT, replying to chaos, 3, #177 of 1294 🔗

James Corbett’s latest video on the Great Reset, points out that Klaus Scwab is not really a big player (see Basics comment). I have not watched all of the video yet as it is very long, James has been wading through all of the details on WEF website (Poor him).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeMsaN6xjAQ&t=1407s

191813 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to chaos, 2, #178 of 1294 🔗

What makes you think Klaus Schwab isn’t in on all the details ,out of interest?

191851 ▶▶ helen, replying to chaos, 2, #179 of 1294 🔗

Crisis engineered by Big Pharma greed (long in the making: 2009 swine flu; false alarm).

AI, expansion of surveillance (long in the making: WEF Gates and other High tecs).

Carbon economy / natural capital (long in the making: Al Gore, ER, Oil and coal green washers)

Mass Media buy out: thoroughly bought

Psychological warfare :retention of consumers

Whats Chinas role?

191928 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to helen, #180 of 1294 🔗

Have you read Virus Mania by Torsten Engelbrecht? Highly recommend if you haven`t.

192274 ▶▶▶▶ helen, replying to watashi, #181 of 1294 🔗

Thanks for the recommendation Watashi

191732 cloud6, 7, #182 of 1294 🔗

Cancer patients die at the rate of 451 a day, 75.2 per 100,000 (2017 figures), with the treatment, diagnosis, care NOT being given in 2020 my estimate would probably be 650 a day.

MP’s to get a £3,300 pay rise.
https://www.change.org/p/ipsa-stop-mp-pay-rise-in-april-2021

A F.A.R.T strategy should be adopted.
Fight fire with Fire
Attack
Repudiate
Tactical

(:

191734 chaos, replying to chaos, -2, #183 of 1294 🔗

Black middle-aged ladies masked in small cars. Discuss.

Come on.. discuss. Find your Inner Starkey. We all have that Inner Starkey in us, even Zuby.

191751 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to chaos, 4, #184 of 1294 🔗

A subset of all people of all colours ,ages and gender masked in all private cars. May be higher than the mean , may be lower . What difference does it make?

191841 ▶▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to arfurmo, 4, #185 of 1294 🔗

I don’t know but if they’re driving and they wear glasses, they’re bloody dangerous.

191924 ▶▶ watashi, replying to chaos, 4, #186 of 1294 🔗

anybody, regardless of race or ethnic origins masked in cars=completely nuts (or very scared and brainwashed) nuts and dangerous!

192546 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to chaos, 1, #187 of 1294 🔗

No the only people I have seen masked driving cars are white and 20 something.

192954 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Bella Donna, #188 of 1294 🔗

Not many here but mainly middle aged to elderly and predominantly male. Strange differences.

191738 djaustin, replying to djaustin, -33, #189 of 1294 🔗

“why, he asks, has more not been done to promote effective treatments, such as rolling out pre-emptive antiviral should as part of protecting high-risk groups?”

What an embarrassing statement for one clearly uninformed. Did he not pause to think that if effective antiviral treatments were available, SAGE and every other sane person would be recommending them? Sadly there are no prophylactic treatments at this stage. Only two treatments have shown positive results at all, remdesivir has a mild effect if you have it and dexamethasone will help you not die of the consequences. This is not influenza and there is no tamiflu, relenza or a vaccine. Finding such a treatment is my day job.

191746 ▶▶ chaos, replying to djaustin, 12, #190 of 1294 🔗

Your bedwetting or 77th brigade/Dominic misfits nonsense is too transparent here. Try the Mail or Telegraph. Though even there you are increasingly outnumbered.

191772 ▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to chaos, #191 of 1294 🔗

Just point me to the antiviral please. Lopinavir, which blocks the same protein in HIV was just shown to be completely and utterly of no use.

191836 ▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to chaos, 7, #192 of 1294 🔗

Comments from subcribers of the Telegraph and the Mail online comments do seem to be about 80% sceptic.

192325 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to KBuchanan, #193 of 1294 🔗

Except for the occasional article that gets love-bombed for some reason. Pet peeves like young people enjoying their lives or an unpopular celeb with some corona connection.

191773 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to djaustin, 13, #194 of 1294 🔗

Unless the members of SAGE have beneficial interests in vaccine manufacturers and/or new, expensive treatments instead of off patent pennies cost/unit medication.

How many members of SAGE have received funding from the BMGF/GAVI?

How many members of SAGE are thinking about future funding opportunities for research and how does this bias affect their decision making?

As to your claim of no prophylactic treatments, bullshit. Vitamins C, D and zinc are known to be beneficial as is HcQ in the early stages of diagnosis (and at appropriate doses). The tests carried out on the latter deliberately used dangerously high doses and at the end of infection – a scenario its supporters have never advocated.

I note you state that finding a treatment is your day job – i.e., you have a vested interest in a vaccine. Enough said.

191825 ▶▶▶ 2 pence, replying to Ewan Duffy, 5, #195 of 1294 🔗

Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread
https://virologyj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1743-422X-2-69

191934 ▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to 2 pence, -4, #196 of 1294 🔗

The concentration tested in that study in vitro (10 uM) is at least 10-30x the highest levels seen for a normal clincal dose. Yes CQ and HCQ will inhibit replication, but not at levels that are safe for humans. The paper tests no clinical hypotheses. If it worked at 0.1 uM (100x lower levels) as one would look for in a new antiviral, we would have a possible medicine.

The sad fact is that a new virus came along, there were no antivirals that that targetted this virus, most likely a mistake based on SARS-COV1 going away, and we were caught with our pharmacology pants down. Scrambling around to see if anything worked at all was the next best option. Remdesivir has a modest effect st best and is IV.

192223 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to djaustin, 1, #197 of 1294 🔗

A real beggar….and another 160+ viruses out there with similar lethality.

Good luck!

191966 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to 2 pence, 5, #198 of 1294 🔗

Great post. CHQ to be taken with Zinc – that is the way it works especially as most people are zinc deficient therefore the supplementation. Two high profile trails used excessively high levels of HCQ and omitted the Zinc – they then said HCQ does not work.

191826 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Ewan Duffy, -1, #199 of 1294 🔗

That’s illogical in two different ways. Firstly, “treatment” is not the same as “vaccine”. Secondly, the “you would say that wouldn’t you” argument is a fallacy. C.S.Lewis called it Bulverism

191880 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #200 of 1294 🔗

There will be no vaccine. Treatment is the only realistic option. As for C.S. Lewis, he was a theologian – i.e. pedlar of fairytales.

192464 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Ewan Duffy, 6, #201 of 1294 🔗

He was a professor of medieval and renaissance literature. Also a highly successful novelist and, yes, a
popular writer in Christianity, with a deep understanding of human nature.
For fairy tales I would refer you to Sage, the BBC, and HM Fascist Junta.

191909 ▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Ewan Duffy, #202 of 1294 🔗

Vaccines are not treatments and I do not work on them. The concentrations necessary for any antiviral activity of HCQ are not achievable in normal treatment doses. The in vitro levels tested are at least an order of magnitude higher than those used in the RECOVERY trial. If it was that obvious, we would have clinical trial evidence already.

191778 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to djaustin, #204 of 1294 🔗

While the treatments may be nothing more than a placebo medically, they are much more effective socially and economically. He may be stumbling but his drift is correct

191819 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to djaustin, 2, #205 of 1294 🔗

As far as I’m aware antivirals aren’t particularly effective against flu either…

191961 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to djaustin, 8, #207 of 1294 🔗

‘Optimise the immune system’, the thing that protects us on a daily basis from the onslaught of bacteria, viruses and other pathogens. There is no magic pill for that. Start with optimising vitamin D levels (supplements this time of year as the sun is too low in the sky to make vitamin D on the skin), increase oxygen to cells (improve breathing – breathing techniques), zinc, selenium, vitamin A. Wholefood diet including good quality fats, cut out processed foods, hydrogenated fats and fizzy drinks, drink quality water, sleep better, reduce stress levels.

The Government did extremely well to ensure that our immune systems were negatively affected with the initial lockdown to stay indoors, fining people for daring to spend time in the sun in their own front gardens, parents with small children told that they could not sit in parks, cancelling summer holidays to sunny Europe, stop gyms from operating, etc.

Natural anti-virals: liposomal vitamin C (absorbs better), Quercetin, Resveratrol

192661 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Victoria, #208 of 1294 🔗

Agreed! Never eat anything with a barcode.

I’m adding zinc to my next vitamin order for belt and braces.

What became of vitamin C? The Chinese had some success with high intravenous doses and AFAICR the Yanks were also using it at one stage.

Never happen here obviously, vitamins are the devil’s spawn, unlike statins of course.

192063 ▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to djaustin, -2, #209 of 1294 🔗

Fuck off 77 cunt

192221 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to djaustin, 3, #210 of 1294 🔗

You do realise that the average mortality age for this common cold coronavirus is pretty much the same as life expectancy…….everywhere…….?

191756 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 7, #211 of 1294 🔗

The claim that the responses to the coronavirus are based on science is false. The responses to the coronavirus are pseudoscience. All of them.

Even people who have not been paying close attention should have realised this when Patrick Valance yesterday told us that computer modelling are the data the government is looking at. The outcomes of computer models are no more data than Thursday is purple.

191767 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #212 of 1294 🔗

What modelling? Still ICL?

191790 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to DRW, 1, #213 of 1294 🔗

It was yesterday” Coronavirus update. Here’s the charts he used: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/927327/20201016_press_conference_slides.pdf
Here’s a video of the briefing. Valance starts at 11.22

191848 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #214 of 1294 🔗
191797 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #215 of 1294 🔗

Only Sweden is following the science.
And even that is debatable where SD is concerned.

191818 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #216 of 1294 🔗

I was only referring to this country, not the entire world. But on the global scale, Belarus seems to be doing rather well. belarus coronavirus death

191764 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 9, #218 of 1294 🔗

Matt Hancock is wrong about herd immunity
Confusion about the Covid-19 science is hampering debate — and costing lives
BY SUNETRA GUPTA
https://unherd.com/2020/10/matt-hancock-is-wrong-about-herd-immunity/
* * * * * * * * * * * *
MP Chris Green, The First UK politician to resign from government over the crisis – 16th Oct 2020
INTERVIEW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eBSwspojh4
* * * * * * * * * * * *
From Daily Telegraph Letters

Although I am able go to shops and restaurants, I miss being able to talk to shop attendants and waiters, and having a laugh. I am hard of hearing, so cannot make out what people are saying while they are wearing a mask.

I feel isolated and lonely, as I cannot speak to anyone.

Godalming, Surrey

* * * * * * * * * * * *
My wife and I live in Essex and so from today cannot receive visitors from another household.

My daughter and her family, whom we haven’t seen since February, were coming for Sunday lunch tomorrow. That has now been cancelled.

This daughter lives in Suffolk. Another lives in Hertfordshire and a son in Cambridge. None are allowed to visit us for the foreseeable future.

However, we could visit each of them. I’m afraid the logic escapes me.

Saffron Walden, Essex

*********************************
I live in a small isolated rural village in Essex with no Covid-19 cases. I am incandescent with rage.

A Doctor From
Good Easter, Essex

191959 ▶▶ johnthebridge, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #219 of 1294 🔗

That second letter says all you need to know about the sheer unadulterated lunacy currently sweeping this country.

191775 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 4, #220 of 1294 🔗

I just posted this on yesterdays but here it is again.

What a load of horseshit. This fool who wrote this is on twitter. https://twitter.com/JamesTGallagher
This picture is pure fear porn.
comment image
“It is estimated that 1% to 3% of people who catch the virus require hospital treatment.
But it is more deadly than flu”-Bollocks

“The number of people that die after catching the virus, known as the infection fatality rate, is about 0.5%. Or one death in every 200 people infected.” Bollocks

“That is five to 25 times more deadly than a seasonal flu infection, despite ongoing myths that Covid is just like flu.” TOTAL BOLLOCKS!

“Influenza kills between 0.02% and 0.1% of people who are infected.”-A bit like covids

comment image

What the fuck!

“We are not at the same level we were at the peak, when 3,000 people were being admitted to hospital with Covid each day. It is currently below 1,000.” Like a few hundred?

“The worry is rising cases could eventually overwhelm the NHS. If that happens then more people will die, from Covid and other causes, because there won’t be enough beds and doctors to go round.” ONE FOR THE KIDDIES

“Most people have not been infected with the virus. About nine in 10 of us in the UK are thought to still be vulnerable.” Monumental Bollocks!

“However, the programme works best when levels of the virus are low and the government’s own science advisers, Sage, say Test and Trace is having a “marginal impact on transmission””. Finally we have an admission for these brain-dead line-towing, sycophantic obsequious supine evil morons

191947 ▶▶ johnthebridge, replying to Two-Six, 14, #221 of 1294 🔗

The picture was used again this morning by the BBC, over a headline saying, “How worried should we be?”
I dunno BBC, you tell us exactly just how “worried” we should be!
Personally, I’m well past the time to give a fuck.

192472 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to johnthebridge, 2, #222 of 1294 🔗

The bug never worried me.
The Fascist Junta always did.
So does Josef Stalin Dripfeed, here in Wales.
Set thou an ungodly man to rule over them, and let Satan stand at his right hand.

191779 Now More Than Ever, 6, #223 of 1294 🔗

I put this up towards the end of yesterday’s thread, so not many of you may have seen it. John Humphrys breaking cover: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8849165/JOHN-HUMPHRYS-public-rising-against-response-Covids-second-wave.html

191782 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 5, #224 of 1294 🔗

“Whiteley’s Garden Centre in Mirfield is using a Videcon system to control customers behaviour at the main entrance to the store.”
Contact Details 01924 495944

Whiteleys Garden Centre
Far Common Road
Mirfield
West Yorkshire
WF14 0DQ

How about getting in contact with them to “give them some support”

191883 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Two-Six, 3, #225 of 1294 🔗

I just phoned and could not speak to a real person. I’ll try later.

192816 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Londo Mollari, #226 of 1294 🔗

wow, what were you going to say to them?

191785 HelenaHancart, replying to HelenaHancart, 30, #227 of 1294 🔗

Get this. I live just outside London. The two London boroughs nearest to my area are the least “infected” with coroni, are now in “high” Tier 2. We’re still “medium” with only 30 odd infections per 100,000. However our council leader has taken it upon himself to tell us we should all do the “right thing” and put ourselves VOLUNTARILY into Tier 2, for “the greater good,” you see, and “you would if you loved your family!” What an absolute load dog pile! There are far too many walking around town in full PPE, terrorised, and he says that based on absolutely NO scientific data whatsoever. The lunatics have truly taken over the asylum.

191812 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to HelenaHancart, 6, #228 of 1294 🔗

He needs to research the health effects of mask-induced oxygen starvation.

191833 ▶▶ Basics, replying to HelenaHancart, 5, #229 of 1294 🔗

He is advocating medical intervention. Without qualification.

192474 ▶▶ annie, replying to HelenaHancart, #231 of 1294 🔗

It’s criminal lunacy, then. Escaped from Broadmoor?

191786 Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #232 of 1294 🔗

Canadian politician leaks new COVID lockdown plan and ‘Great Reset’ dictatorship – Australia is part of it

https://cairnsnews.org/2020/10/16/canadian-politician-leaks-new-covid-lockdown-plan-and-great-reset-dictatorship-australia-is-part-of-it/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

191789 assoc, 4, #233 of 1294 🔗

A million tests a day by Christmas! If 2.3% are false positives that’s 23000 ‘cases’ per day, every day!

191799 Hoppy Uniatz, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 11, #234 of 1294 🔗

That salmon looks delicious – but for those readers looking for a budget priced Vitamin D alternative, I recommend Kedgeree, which, coincidentally, I have just made and eaten. Eggs, rice, butter, cream, haddock, plus turmeric and chili flakes to stave off the cold in this miserable weather. I believe if you chop and fry an onion in the early stages that will cover the Quercetin as well.

How about a sidebar for readers Covid-beating recipes!

192691 ▶▶ chris c, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 1, #235 of 1294 🔗

Coconut oil supposedly has antiviral properties Anyway I think it tastes good and being highly saturated works well for high temperature cooking. I fry some cashew nuts, multicoloured peppers and chillies and garlic with a few prawns and a tin of crab (or in spring a whole dressed crab from the fish van) with a small amount of basmati rice to avoid spiking my blood glucose. Or I use it to make a prawn or chicken curry with numerous spices.

Mostly I eat meat, poultry, game and fish with a wide range of vegetables including a lot of seasonal stuff. Usually I don’t catch much. In February I cut my thumb badly when I broke a wine glass. In the past it would probably have needed stitches and certainly antibiotics or at least ointment. As it was by June you couldn’t see which thumb was damaged. So I must be doing something right. A lot of fit healthy old folks round here, I’ll have what they’re having.

191801 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #236 of 1294 🔗

I can’t rememember ever seeing a speech for a newly elected NZ Prime Minister broadcast here.

What is so special about this one? A nod to the the NZ Covid strategy perhaps?

There was Build Back Better message in her speech I believe (I didn’t listen, just caught Sky News presenter mention it afterwards)

191878 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #237 of 1294 🔗

That mentally ill woman is one of Bliar’s babes.

192078 ▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Nobody2020, #238 of 1294 🔗

Fucking bitch

192183 ▶▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to Jaguarpig, 1, #239 of 1294 🔗

Still trying to get refund for holiday booked for April. Havent got response yet. Will take it up with Fair Trading,but that may not bode well.

191802 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 7, #240 of 1294 🔗

The redoutable Dr Simon Clarke has a load of guff in the Spectator today trying to persuade lockdown sceptics to mend their ways. The usual predictable arguments, no point listing them here, needless to say I wish I hadn’t read it.

But this is interesting.

It’s also become common currency to point to 2017/18 excess winter deaths of 50,000 and say that Covid is no worse than a bad flu year, but according to Public Health England, there were only about 16,000 recorded flu deaths in England over that period. Many of those excess deaths will have been caused by things like circulatory diseases.

So he claims that the excess winter deaths of 17/18 were largely not caused by flu. For some reason that winter, there was a surge of death by other causes – he doesn’t explain why (if we take the same line as we have this year, we could claim it was due to “undiagnosed” flu). But of course all the excess deaths this year are guaranteed to have been caused by covid, because what else could they have been caused by – and as we know covid cured other causes of death like circulatory diseases because the death certificates say so…

191807 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #241 of 1294 🔗

Could easily have been caused by the flu vaccine.

191805 wat tyler, 2, #242 of 1294 🔗

Just watched the Ivor Cummins new video in the round up ,as usual it’s great and easy to understand so please pass it on to everyone you know .If you want to convince people videos by Ivor ,Dr John Lee ,Sunetra Gupta or Mike Yeadon is the way forward . I believe we can convert loads over easily if we conduct ourselves in the right way so next time you’re in a discussion with someone about the lockdowns instead of ranting just calmly point them to the latest Ivor Cummins video . P S nearly forgot Carl Henaghan who i turned a friend on to recently .

191811 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 38, #243 of 1294 🔗

Anyone seen or heard about the Chris Green tweet yesterday? When discussing the inconsistencies in rules between Merseyside and Lancashire (the addition of bold is mine):

They are both in tier three and the tiering system is designed to simplify the rules so everyone will find them easier to follow over the coming years .

This has caused uproar on his feed. People begging to know what he means by “years”, was it a mistake or a typo?

I think it was a deliberate leak of government policy. If so, it needs to be reported everywhere so people start to realise what is really being planned.

191832 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to A. Contrarian, 18, #244 of 1294 🔗

After 7 months of restrictions I find it strange that anybody wouldn’t be expecting them to keep this up for years. There is no exit strategy. What do they think is suddenly going to change? But then most of the nation still has their head firmly stuck in the sand, so anything that forces them to join us in the real world has to be a good thing.

191835 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Charlie Blue, 2, #245 of 1294 🔗

Just tried to look at his twitter- account suspended?

191987 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #246 of 1294 🔗

Still there for me

192565 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Charlie Blue, 5, #247 of 1294 🔗

The exit strategy will literally be the vaccines and only the very naive will permit these genocidal brews to be injected into their bodies. These are the end times for most of us.

192699 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #248 of 1294 🔗

Quite, they have an 80 seat majority and an “opposition” that agrees with them. What motivation would they have to stop?

191849 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to A. Contrarian, 14, #249 of 1294 🔗

When this started I wrote to my MP about muzzles, he replied why was I worried about a temporary measure? Think I’ll write again.

192405 ▶▶▶ Mutineer, replying to Dan Clarke, 6, #250 of 1294 🔗

I wrote to my MP, Sajid Javid and asked him at least a dozen questions. His reply was a poorly executed ‘cut and paste’ job with the beginnings of paragraphs missing etc and he did NOT answer a single question I asked. It was all about ‘protecting us’. His reply regarding the refusal to treat cancer patients such as myself? He suggested I ‘ring my GP (remember them?) or ring NHS 111. Wow! I hadn’t thought of that! It can take 3 days to have a receptionist answer and then you’re quizzed by an unqualified person asking personal questions and they decide if you warrant a call from a GP which can take 2 weeks. The Health Centre is massive with 3 floors and plenty of room to distance and yet is firmly locked against the sick. The GP’s have locked themselves away from patients since March and it wasn’t much better prior to March when it could take 6 weeks to see a GP of your choice. One friend has waited a year for surgery and now has tested positives so her urgent surgery is postponed for over a year. She has barely left the house since March as she has significant breathing problems so cannot possibly have Covid-19 as it would kill her. We are being deliberately culled.

191854 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to A. Contrarian, 18, #251 of 1294 🔗

What did people expect ? People allow tyrants to micromanage every aspect of their existence and they think they will just relinquish this power. We allow the government to set about the systematic destruction of all business and people think this is temporary? This is just getting started there is much worse to come and the moment we accepted that our government should have this power over us it was inevitable.

This nation will never be the same again. Even if we could arrest and put on trial all involved and install a rational government that respects our liberty and works in our interests the scars from this will never heal.

192571 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Saved To Death, 3, #252 of 1294 🔗

It was MPs who gave the government these genocidal powers and MPs will have to answer for their collusion, once the government has been very severely dealt with.

191990 ▶▶ Julian, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #253 of 1294 🔗

Maybe it was to emphasise that this is not short term. He’s done us a favour. I keep banging on to people about this. It’ll get through eventually.

192577 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Julian, 1, #254 of 1294 🔗

It’s probably for the medium term. For most of us there will be no long term, if they get their way and just what’s to stop them, not spineless MPs that’s for sure.

191814 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 93, #255 of 1294 🔗

Been reading the Tesco risk assessments (I know, sad) and sent them the following reply just for the hell of it:

I have also perused your risk assessments from a professional point of view (I have to approve risk assessments as a senior manager) and there is one very large, glaring omission.

Nowhere, in any of the risk assessments I read, did it make mention of nor training for staff on the hazards of wearing a mask or face covering.

In my original correspondence I sent after speaking to staff in a Tesco store one of the HSE failings by Tesco was exactly this – staff were not made aware of any dangers associated with mask or face covering wearing, were not briefed on what signs to look for or the initial 1st aid steps to take in the eventually that a member of staff or a customer is taken ill in-store.

Tesco not made staff aware of hazards and illnesses physical and mental of prolonged mask wearing up to and including death Tesco not briefed staff on initial signs of medical difficulties when mask wearing nor 1st aid

The most common medical problems are:

  • bad breath
  • mask mouth (like meth mouth)
  • bacteria build up in mouth
  • rotting teeth
  • acne and infected spots
  • impetigo
  • pleurisy
  • skin problems
  • bacterial pneumonia – that can lead to death
  • viral pneumonia – that can lead to death
  • fungal pneumonia – that can lead to death
  • continuous cough
  • dry mouth/throat due to lack of spit and mucus – remember we are designed to breathe in through nose, out through mouth to avoid breathing in shit, filter stuff with nose hairs before it enters the body and so on
  • weakened immune system leading to more illnesses and sickness
  • colds and flu
  • viral illnesses
  • hypoxia – low oxygen levels (if you see someone who is a bit grey this is a typical symptom, not lips turning blue) – very dangerous to unborn babies so pregnant women should not wear them.
  • hypoxemia – due to breathing in an increased CO2
  • continuous and/or increasingly worse headaches
  • increased heart rate
  • increased blood pressure
  • difficulty breathing leading to panic attack
  • viral lung infections

There are also psychological problems associated with mask wearing such as:

  • serious depression
  • panic attacks
  • feeling of being hemmed in or smothered
  • loss of sense of self
  • shame
  • compliance as masks wearing is a feature of many rituals by various groups and religions

As there is very, very little anecdotal evidence supporting the wearing of masks – even the BMA admits this – and the reasons being given out by government and from NGOs do not make sense nor include any science or medical facts the question to ask is why the push for mass mask wearing?

One more point, your risk assessments are just regurgitated government and council guidelines and WHO press releases etc put into a corporate spread sheet and contain no reference to real research.

As I raised earlier there is a real lack of evidence being supplied by central Government, councils hold no evidence and the BMA admits they have no evidence so how do Tesco know their steps are adequate or sufficient when all they have referenced is non-scientific?

There is much evidence freely available by many independent researchers and specialists not attached to SAGE or Government that is increasing by the day that government is not “following the science” as they claim but making it up as they go along.

I am willing to give Tesco some of these links so that they can start their own research to confirm this along with my FOI request answers that show this is true.

191828 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Awkward Git, 36, #256 of 1294 🔗

Well done for being the biggest pain in the arse! 👍

191840 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, 22, #257 of 1294 🔗

Excellent. Perhaps Mr A Git deserves/has earned an occasional slot above the line. Outstanding work.

192484 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Basics, 5, #258 of 1294 🔗

Absolutely, yesyesyes.

191910 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Awkward Git, 14, #259 of 1294 🔗

This needs to be sent to every major employer who are forcing their staff to wear face coverings—–well done Mr Awkward!

191977 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Awkward Git, 16, #260 of 1294 🔗

Blessed be the Git, for he smiteth them with his Awkwardness.

192486 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #261 of 1294 🔗

Amen to that.
Smite them hip and thigh.

192515 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to annie, 6, #262 of 1294 🔗

And in between.

192072 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #264 of 1294 🔗

Really useful for me as a union rep with H and S responsibilities

192526 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Yawnyaman, 3, #265 of 1294 🔗

Help yourself to anything I post.

192770 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #266 of 1294 🔗

I think for you, as for me and many others, the mask always was and is ‘personal’, because you and we have first looked at the ‘science’ behind it and then recognized immediately that it was BS and what the mask therefore is really about:
signaling obedience.
The mask is solely a Gessler’s hat, like the Hitler salute was.
Nothing else.
As such, it’s become ‘personal’, and uncovering its many dangers and absurdities and facing its proponents with them is absolutely necessary for folk like us.
Many thanks for your great work, I am sharing it in German resistance circles too.

192888 ▶▶▶▶ Sodastream, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #267 of 1294 🔗

Thanks so much ! I work in the nhs and only became aware 2 days ago through a link posted on here that a risk assessment should be done in the work place. No risk assessment at out hospital so I have a great piece to work with now. Many thanks 😊

192963 ▶▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Awkward Git, #268 of 1294 🔗

Thanks!

192203 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #269 of 1294 🔗

Awkward Git aka Indefatigable Warrior!

192481 ▶▶ annie, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #270 of 1294 🔗

I will put up a statue to Awkward Git.
Our lives matter.

192528 ▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to annie, 2, #271 of 1294 🔗

Awkward Gits Matter! AGM!

191816 PoshPanic, replying to PoshPanic, 4, #272 of 1294 🔗

If the government/sage line is to totally dismiss the GBD and any herd humanity argument, then surely they must be armed with some impressive evidence? Looking at the ONS data, it’s seems clear that they aren’t remotely interested in tracking the community immunity. Otherwise, why would you have such large serology capacity, yet daily reduce tests?

191817 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to PoshPanic, 1, #273 of 1294 🔗

And PCR capacity for comparison

191984 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to PoshPanic, 5, #274 of 1294 🔗

They are not interested in finding out the truth, and never have been. They have stuck to their initial idee fixe from Day 1. To do anything else would mean having to risk facing the fact they got it wrong, which they surely know anyway, but it’s easier for them to stick their fingers in their ears and hum. They are just human beings, more than usually flawed.

191834 Humanity First, replying to Humanity First, 6, #275 of 1294 🔗

From today’s Telegraph…[emphasis added]

“The UK should impose a two week circuit breaker to “get on top” of a rapid surge in new infections, according to the Government’s testing tsar, and closing schools and universities may now be unavoidable.

Sir John Bell, Regius Professor of Medicine at the University of Oxford, said that coronavirus “numbers are actually pretty eye watering in some parts of the country”, and it will be almost impossible to bring transmission down by “biting around the edges”.”

Some quick digging on Wiki on Sir John Bell reveals some interesting info…

“…He chairs the Global Health Scientific advisory board of the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation…

…He attended the 2013 Bilderberg Group conference

…Bell has been a non-executive director of Roche since 2001…

…Bell serves on the Genentech Board in San Francisco, and formerly served on the scientific advisory board of AstraZeneca (1997–2000)…

… He was the founding director of three biotechnology companies,including Oxagen, Avidex, and Powderject and is also on the Board of Atopix.”

192036 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to Humanity First, #276 of 1294 🔗

What on earth are you suggesting? <smile>

192334 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Humanity First, #277 of 1294 🔗

…testing tsar…

FFS!

Definition of ‘tsar’: got mates in Downing Street.

191837 captainbeefheart, replying to captainbeefheart, 5, #278 of 1294 🔗

I’ve never been a member of the armed forces (army cadets doesn’t count), so I wondered if any active members who might be reading this would be happy to answer a few questions:

  1. Now that the Torture bill (“Overseas operations act”) is law and you are allowed to torture people (overseas, obviously, abroad), does this make you feel more confident about being in the British Armed Forces?
  2. What situation would it take for you to accept an order to kill British citizens?
191852 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to captainbeefheart, #279 of 1294 🔗

(sorry, I meant “subjects” not citizens)

191858 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to captainbeefheart, -7, #280 of 1294 🔗

you are allowed to torture people

Since that is not true, the answer might be shorter and pithier than you want. But it wasn’t an actual question expecting an actual answer, was it? Just a rhetorical device to suggest without explicitly asserting something which is quite false.

191864 ▶▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Richard Pinch, #281 of 1294 🔗

I just wondered how long it would be until this sort of thing starts happening in this country.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/south-africa-coronavirus-security-forces-rubber-bullets-stay-at-home-orders/

(I know they were only rubber bullets, but still – and I don’t think 20,000 police will be enough)

191872 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to captainbeefheart, #282 of 1294 🔗

We’re not there yet.

191871 ▶▶▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to John P, 1, #284 of 1294 🔗

Yes, that’s the one – the guardian should censor this not…

191890 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to John P, 2, #285 of 1294 🔗

On the contrary, his article supports my contention explicitly. It discusses the way the bill introduces a presumption against prosecution after five years (“statute of limitations”) for grave crimes including torture. In other words, torture remains illegal and it can still be prosecuted as a crime. It is simply false to claim that the result of the act is “ you are allowed to torture people”. It was and continues to be the case that you are not allowed to do so.

191895 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Richard Pinch, #286 of 1294 🔗

I got away with getting flashed by a speed camera because they didn’t try and prosecute me after six months.

I still did it though.

191900 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to captainbeefheart, 1, #287 of 1294 🔗

… and would you say that the fact there’s a time limit on the penalty justified the claim that, legally speaking, “you’re allowed to exceed the speed limit”?

191904 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #288 of 1294 🔗

There are far fewer people being killed by ‘speeding’ motorists than are currently being killed by the lockdown restrictions coming from our evil fascist government.

191906 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Richard Pinch, #289 of 1294 🔗

No, but I got away with it. Maybe introduce the same statute of limitations for murder, subversion, treason – that sort of thing.

The government can now have people tortured and then drag the investigation into themselves having someone tortured for longer than 5 years. But they’d never do anything like that will they?

191915 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to captainbeefheart, -1, #290 of 1294 🔗

So we agree the claim that “ you are allowed to torture people” was false.

191925 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Richard Pinch, #291 of 1294 🔗

OK, sorry, can we agree on:

You can torture someone if you are a member of the armed forces overseas and get away with it if no one bothers investigating it and arresting you after 5 years.

191935 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to captainbeefheart, 1, #292 of 1294 🔗

You can do anything at all and get away with it if no one bothers to investigate.

191941 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to matt, -1, #293 of 1294 🔗

And no one seems to investigate things when they’re done right in people’s faces. Like admitting to driving with bad eyesight on live TV

191869 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to captainbeefheart, 4, #294 of 1294 🔗

No, you meant citizens.

Actually, the bill is not law until it passes through the House of Lords.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/20/overseas-operations-bill-uk-government-bend-rules-torture-soldiers

I’m not really so worried about this bill. I’m far more worried about the Covert Human Intelligences Bill whereby many agents of the State are being given permission to break laws whenever they feel like it and Boris’ coming attempt to censor the internet.

191886 ▶▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to John P, #295 of 1294 🔗
191843 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 5, #296 of 1294 🔗

Sounds like, for some reason, the government can’t get rid of or dilute Sage influence. Why is that? Its a Cartel and there is usually some lever they use to get what they want. Can’t see it just being ‘groupthink’

191862 ▶▶ Eddy, replying to Dan Clarke, #297 of 1294 🔗

Look 33 degrees north.

191978 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #298 of 1294 🔗

Because they are afraid that they will be blamed for every death – the BBC and other media and all the opposition parties will slaughter them. This is of course of their own making. If they had dialled down the fear, instead of up, then the Swedish approach could easily have been sold and become mainstream.

192713 ▶▶ chris c, replying to Dan Clarke, #299 of 1294 🔗

All the money trails lead to Gates

191844 calchas, replying to calchas, 11, #300 of 1294 🔗

In all areas of modern life a great deal of ‘Standard Operating Procedure’ has accumulated over hundreds of years, and is generally very stable

So, when I notice that Standard Operating Procedure for the recording and classification of deaths, together with the rules for filling out death certificates, has changed, then I know something is up.

Combine that with the changes which have been introduced into epidemiological vocabulary – cases etc – and it is clear what is going on here.

This ‘pandemic’ can’t stand on its own two feet.

191953 ▶▶ RickH, replying to calchas, 1, #301 of 1294 🔗

Add to that the changes to the regulatory framework for new medicines, the ‘give-away’ of money on a vaccine gamble, and the waver of responsibility for manufacturers, and you have further confirmation of what is going on in terms of procedures.

… not to mention the perversion of the legislatory process to remove civil rights.

191847 Humanity First, replying to Humanity First, 12, #302 of 1294 🔗

From today’s Telegraph…[emphasis added]

“The UK should impose a two week circuit breaker to “get on top” of a rapid surge in new infections, according to the Government’s testing tsar, and closing schools and universities may now be unavoidable.

Sir John Bell, Regius Professor of Medicine at the University of Oxford, said that coronavirus “numbers are actually pretty eye watering in some parts of the country”, and it will be almost impossible to bring transmission down by “biting around the edges”.”

Some quick digging on Wiki on Sir John Bell reveals some interesting info…

“…He chairs the Global Health Scientific advisory board of the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation…

…He attended the 2013 Bilderberg Group conference…

…Bell has been a non-executive director of Roche since 2001…

…Bell serves on the Genentech Board in San Francisco, and
formerly served on the scientific advisory board of AstraZeneca (1997–2000)…

… He was the founding director of three biotechnology companies,including Oxagen, Avidex, and Powderject and is also on the Board of Atopix.”

191853 ▶▶ John P, replying to Humanity First, 2, #303 of 1294 🔗

So what? He’s not running the country. Boris Johnson is Prime Minister. He makes the decisions. Johnson is responsible for this – no-one else.

191857 ▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to John P, 7, #304 of 1294 🔗

Yes it is important to ALWAYS remember that influencers are NOT the people we elected and this is totally on PM Johnson and the Conservatives.

191939 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to John P, 6, #305 of 1294 🔗

You are right about where the buck stops. But the network of interests that inform public utterances by people hiding behind an ‘academic’ cloak need to be revealed.

191940 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to John P, 3, #306 of 1294 🔗

Johnson has leadership responsibility for sure, but that does not mean that others do not share the blame. And there’s plenty of blame to go around.

191957 ▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to John P, 4, #307 of 1294 🔗

John I don’t know why you are so obsessed with stopping at Johnson? This has been the problem for the last 100 years we have allowed politicians to cover up the guys who are truly pulling the strings.

192597 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to JHuntz, 3, #308 of 1294 🔗

BECAUSE HE IS IN FUCKING CHARGE.

191860 ▶▶ Eddy, replying to Humanity First, #309 of 1294 🔗

33

191891 ▶▶ John P, replying to Humanity First, 1, #310 of 1294 🔗

I am no fan of Bill Gates.

The problem I have with comments such as this is that they (probably unintentionally) deflect attention away from the person making the decisions in this country. Boris Johnson. Johnson is in control. No matter how stressed or clownish he may appear. He is in control of this country. No-one else.

For sure, Johnson is allowing others to advise him. Cummings and “the science” boys at SAGE and the “Joint Biosecurity Centre” being no doubt among those.

But Johnson is the one making the decisions. Never forget that.

191894 ▶▶▶ Humanity First, replying to John P, 6, #311 of 1294 🔗

Agreed. But why stop at Johnson?

Justice should encompass all.

The puppets and the puppet masters.

192594 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Humanity First, #312 of 1294 🔗

Because he is in charge . He is Prime Minister.

Not Bill bloody Gates!

191932 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to John P, 4, #313 of 1294 🔗

The buck stops with Johnson that is true but that doesn’t negate a conspiracy.Also I don’t see anyone absolving him of guilt on here

192598 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #314 of 1294 🔗

And it doesn’t prove conspiracy either.

Nobody is absolving him of guilt I said:

The problem I have with comments such as this is that they deflect attention away from the person making the decisions in this country.

191976 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to John P, 4, #315 of 1294 🔗

When our leading institutions such as Imperial College and the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine sign up via the Vaccine Centre to the absurd and dangerous goal of finding a vaccine for every single disease and administering hundreds of vaccines to infants, it is clear this is a wider problem than the PM. State funded academics, Big Pharma and egomaniacal billionaires have developed a corrupt pact that is undermining the nation’s health.

192600 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to OKUK, -1, #316 of 1294 🔗

We don’t administer the chicken pox vaccine to infants clever clogs.

192736 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to John P, 1, #317 of 1294 🔗

i think they do in the US.
its not v effective though.

192043 ▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to John P, 2, #318 of 1294 🔗

It’s like at the time after the French revolution .The aristocracy and the monarchy couldn’t blame the ordinary people who had overthrown them if they wanted to make a return so they invented conspiracy theories .It was the freemasons ,protestants ,the jews and now we have people who can’t except the conservatives have treated us like shit so it’s all the left or Bill Gate’s or the lizards . It’s time a lot of people took a long hard look in the mirror and faced some painful facts ,those running this country will step on you like they would an ant and walk away without a care in the world . I believe we will win through in the end and get back to normal but one thing will never change and thats the reality that this episode has opened up to so many ,the gulf between people and state is wider that it’s ever been and growing .

191861 zacaway, replying to zacaway, 7, #319 of 1294 🔗

Morning all. An update has been posted for one of the other Judicial Review actions (separate from Simon Dolan’s case) – The Coronavirus Act 2020 is Null and Void!

The Judicial Review was lodged yesterday and it is very substantial. This is just the legal action that we are permitted to bring against the Government in the narrow perimeters allowed. This does not cover the true extent of their criminal deception, fraud and lies!

The Detailed Statement of Grounds is now available on the Case Page it is 75 pages long, please read it all as this affects everyone including you and your family. This is true even if you live in a country outside the UK as so much of the world-wide deception and fraud originates from here.

https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/the-coronavirus-act-2020/

191866 ▶▶ DRW, replying to zacaway, #320 of 1294 🔗

Sadly the courts have proven they’re not interested.

191865 JHuntz, replying to JHuntz, 13, #321 of 1294 🔗

That democrat v republican chart is the most telling piece of the general public’s opinion so far. If there is malevolent powers seeking authoritarian rule then those on the left are the gift that keeps on giving.

191944 ▶▶ Jules, replying to JHuntz, -2, #322 of 1294 🔗

Unfortunately it is the right that does the giving.

191979 ▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Jules, 8, #323 of 1294 🔗

Jules it would appear that those on the right by and large just want to get back to normality. It is the left generally who harbour uncritical belief in the state and it’s scientific advisors. It is the left who believe in the rule of six and max two households because the government told them to. It is the left who virtue signal about a mask because the govt told them to. It is the left who reject herd immunity because the government told them to. It is the left who support circuit breakers because the government told them to.

191994 ▶▶▶▶ Jules, replying to JHuntz, 3, #324 of 1294 🔗

I agree, but things are getting desperate now. One thin that struck me this morning, How is it that this site has nothing atl about Andy Burnham standing up for his city? An odd sort of hero I know, not my metaphorical cup of tea generally, but it makes me wonder when IDS gets top billing on here. At least Burnham is acting like an elected mayor.

191954 ▶▶ Gavroche, replying to JHuntz, 19, #325 of 1294 🔗

As someone who would consider himself to be on the left, politically, I’ve found this to be one of the most disorientating aspects of this whole sorry affair. To my mind, this is the expression of a phenomenon I first noticed at the time of the Brexit debates, namely the uncritical investment of large parts of the middle class left in a version of technocratic elitism. This was evident in the Remain campaign’s argument that Brexit would necessarily mean abandoning all workers’ rights, as these were only protected thanks to the work of lawyers at the EU commission. I voted Remain but was disgusted by this notion that political rights were dependent upon the work of benevolent middle class professionals, rather than being the product of centuries of struggles by working people themselves, from the Tolpuddle Martyrs to the women at Dagenham.
In the corona debacle we have something similar, namely an uncritical belief, on the part of many left-leaning professionals, in the abilities and benevolent wisdom of a scientific technocratic elite. Part of this is about a kind of narcissistic identification, i.e. the thought that these scientists are like me – professional, middle class, reasonable, benevolent, left-leaning, virtuous. There also seems to be a kind of secularised version of penance and redemption at work here – covid is happening because we have sinned/covidiots are continuing to sin, so we must do penance, the more penance we do/the stricter the lockdown, the quicker we will redeem ourselves and it will all go away. Here the technocratic impulses of the middle class left intersect with a liking for virtue signalling to produce a particularly noxious brew. That’s my take on it all, anyway.

191985 ▶▶▶ Dame Lynet, replying to Gavroche, 4, #326 of 1294 🔗

It is an excellent take, indeed, and one that is unfortunately forever lost on those of the left to whom it applies. They are a lost cause as their fervent belief in their own rightness and virtue makes it impossible for them to be wrong.

192056 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Gavroche, #327 of 1294 🔗

Good analysis. You might like this one, coming from an author who, like you, self-identifies as on the left:

The People, No: A Brief History of Anti-Populism

192113 ▶▶▶ Marialta, replying to Gavroche, 2, #328 of 1294 🔗

Very astute take on it! just dug out my old copy of ’Society of the Spectacle’by Guy Debord. To quote Martin Jenkins in the Intro: ‘to ripen a person for self sacrifice he must be stripped of his individual identity and distinctiveness’. Wear a mask and you are not alone parading in a unified mass spectacle. I am cast out of the tribe as I show my face at all times.

192296 ▶▶▶ TT, replying to Gavroche, 3, #329 of 1294 🔗

Wanted to add something I noticed here in Belgium, as I’m curious to know if the same trend applied elsewhere. To give some background: many a decade ago I would have tended to define myself as ‘left-leaning’ mainly because I was appalled by the invasive interventionist policies of the US in Latin America and the Middle East, and the (c)overt support of the CIA & co. for countless ruthless dictatorships. I got progressively disgusted by all the leftist parties, however, because of their limitless hypocrisy and the countless scandals that surfaced in my country (and elsewhere) that involved the left (often exactly the kind of thing they should be fighting in theory, like bribery from arms companies, collusion with organized crime, fraud and pillage of public funds for social projects and poverty alleviation, etc.). Now I still from time to time read left-leaning websites and publications mainly for their articles or editorials on foreign affairs, as they often show less of an ‘Atlantic bias’ than those of the traditionally conservative outlets here. In the last few years, however, I started to notice that the comments on these left-leaning websites were being literally swamped with pro-China propaganda, suddenly lots of (seemingly spontaneous) remarks were appearing everywhere stating things like ‘all these injustices will be a thing of the past once China takes over’, or how the ‘Chinese workers’ paradise’ was coming and would bring justice and equality for all, and more of the same bs. This felt like a coordinated effort, as the same ideological propaganda started cropping up all over. At the same time I have noticed that China is buying up property here in Brussels like there’s no tomorrow – only in my direct area there is a huge hotel that is now Chinese, plus a huge building of the “Bank of China” that is luxuriously outfitted with marble and chandeliers and such, and otherwise gloriously empty apart from (occasionally) a lone security guard posting in front of the elevator. I find this all the more sinister now that the China-dominated WHO is issuing guidelines that are wrecking western economies and strangling democratic freedoms, eagerly lapped up and repeated by all those in charge, whether from the left or the right.

I really wonder to what extent some change in global dominance might have already taken place, i.e. if all those leaders might be pandering to Chinese wishes because they know they will shortly be the new taskmasters. Even if they’re too thick to understand a virus, surely they must have a grasp of global politics? Even incompetence can only go so far… I was wondering if others have been noticing this same trend?

192418 ▶▶▶ Mutineer, replying to Gavroche, 1, #330 of 1294 🔗

Well put. I’ve been calling it the ‘chemotherapy’ effect. Cancer patients actually queue up for chemo, wear their bald heads with pride and in support groups there’s a kind of kudos in having the most sickness. Chemo often does more harm than good and cancer treatment is corrupt and based on cash as cancer is one of the most profitable businesses in the world. Despite the dismal failure of these damaging and intensive treatments the scientists persist in developing new forms of chemo. I can see the same happening with Covid-19 as it almost seems at times that many are revelling in it. The vicious finger pointing and shaming is astonishing. Perhaps this division is intentional as the Govt is using the public to police their restrictions. If they told them to wear kiss me quick hats and red noses I am certain they would do so!

191875 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 16, #331 of 1294 🔗

https://twitter.com/AlistairHaimes/status/1317398798428114944

“Have a look at the extreme variance in ICU admission for covid by BMI, then reflect that obesity levels are 4% in Japan and South Korea, 29% in UK and 42% in USA.”

 In ICU 80% are overweight and 46% extreme obese.Easy to understand low death rates in Asia.

191884 ▶▶ Melangell, replying to swedenborg, 3, #332 of 1294 🔗

Hi Swedenborg, Wondering if you can help shed light on US Covid deaths. A friend over there recently told me that John Hopkins U announced that Covid is the 3rd leading cause of death in the US. That seems unbelievably high to me, even taking into account false positives, bloated counting, etc. I have tried to research this myself but keep drawing blanks. Do you happen to have any information?

192372 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Melangell, #333 of 1294 🔗

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm

I think this crude data from US from 2017 (above link) will give C-19 as third place (as seasonal flu that year 50000). Not exceptional for deaths in a pandemic year to come at third place. The problem is that this is not the whole truth. The excess death this year for dementia and Alzheimer will be much greater because of the lockdown and of the total excess deaths  this year at least 25% is not C-19 related but just side effects of lockdown.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.08.31.20184036v3.full.pdf

Others would even say that of 215000 certified C-19 deaths perhaps 25000 are not related to C-19 despite the death certificates. Ethical skeptic has an abundance of information on this.

 https://twitter.com/EthicalSkeptic/status/1317301787007832064/photo/1

191920 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to swedenborg, 2, #334 of 1294 🔗

I am sure there is correlation with obesity but lower obesity levels mean greater longevity (as we see in Japan) and extreme old age is itself a high risk factor (old lungs are diseased lungs), so – on the orthodox model – Japan, with no real lockdown and a lot of very old people, should be awash with Covid mortality and not be, as it is, experiencing a much lower death rate than France, Belgium, Spain etc.

192230 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to OKUK, 1, #335 of 1294 🔗

‘Our findings suggest that routine infant BCG vaccination coverage in young generation had a significant impact on prevention of local COVID-19 spread in Japan.’

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7419263/

191879 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 16, #336 of 1294 🔗

Coronavirus Fraud Scandal — The Biggest Fight Has Just Begun

Dr Reiner Fuellmich, ACU

  • The German Corona Extra-Parliamentary Inquiry Committee (Außerparlamentarischer Corona Untersuchungsausschuss), launched July 10, 2020, was founded by four trial attorneys to investigate and prosecute those responsible for implementing the economically devastating lockdowns around the world, as well as using fraudulent testing to engineer the appearance of a dangerous pandemic
  • The Corona Extra-Parliamentary Inquiry Committee will be working with an international network of lawyers to argue the most massive tort case ever — a case described as “probably the greatest crime against humanity ever committed”
  • They argue that pandemic measures were intended to sow panic so that the pharmaceutical and tech industries can generate huge profits from the sale of PCR tests, antigen and antibody tests and vaccines, and the harvesting of our genetic fingerprints
  • Lockdowns were unnecessary, and any claim to the contrary is wrong, the Inquiry Committee insists. The virus was already in retreat and infection rates were starting to decline when lockdowns were imposed; scientific evidence shows a majority of people already have built-in protection against the virus due to cross-reactive T cell immunity, and the PCR test cannot be used to identify an active infection with SARS-CoV-2 or any other virus
  • While mortality statistics during the pandemic have been within the norms of any given year, meaning the pandemic has not resulted in an excess number of deaths or a death toll higher than normal, the collateral damage from pandemic response measures is nearly incalculable

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/10/17/coronavirus-fraud-biggest-crime-against-humanity.aspx

191881 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Victoria, 8, #337 of 1294 🔗

part 2

The three questions the committee seeks to answer through judicial means are:

1. Is there a COVID-19 pandemic or is there only a polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test pandemic?
Specifically, does a positive PCR test result mean that the individual is infected with SARS-CoV-2 and has COVID-19, or does it mean absolutely nothing in connection with the COVID-19 infection?

2. Do pandemic response measures such as lockdowns, mask mandates, social distancing and quarantine regulations serve to protect the world’s population from COVID-19, or do these measures serve only to make people panic?
Are these measures intended to sow “panic in order to make people believe, without asking any questions, that their lives are in danger, so that the pharmaceutical and tech industries can generate huge profits from the sale of PCR tests, antigen and antibody tests and vaccines, as well as the harvesting of our genetic fingerprints?”

3. Is it true that the German government was massively lobbied — more so than any other country — by the chief protagonists of this COVID-19 pandemic?
According to Fuellmich, Germany “is known as a particularly disciplined country and was therefore to become a role model for the rest of the world for its strict and, of course, successful adherence” to pandemic measures.

191898 ▶▶▶ helen, replying to Victoria, #338 of 1294 🔗

Excellent posts Victoria

‘We will do this for the people’. Dr Füllmich

Money Talks Update 1 English15 Oct 2020

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kod8XTnhKGE

192082 ▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Victoria, #339 of 1294 🔗

That will be extremely interesting to watch. I think their assertions are spot on.

191887 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 23, #340 of 1294 🔗

JD Wetherspoon boss attacks COVID-19 restrictions as pub chain slumps to loss
There’s nothing like losing money to fire up business men like Tim Martin and to make them come off the fence (if they were ever on it in the first place of course).

Tim Martin, in his excoriating attack on the goverment’s whole approach to the ‘scamdemic’ sums them up with the comments:

“None of the new regulations appears to have any obvious basis in science”—-

Well,….. who would have thunk it Mr Martin!

I Posted yesterday about my visit to a local hostelry where I overheard a big, working bloke come in and tell the barman on being asked about a face covering:

‘can’t be bothered with all that shite—just show me where to sit and give me my beer!’

And he was served, of course he was, pubs are struggling to survive and the last thing they want to do is to turn away customers. And I don’t think, in the main, they are going to argue about semantics when most of their owners and staff realise just how big a ‘pile of shite’ (to use the language of our erstwhile customer) this whole business is.

I was amused by this customer yesterday. Today, I take my hat off to him. I still wouldn’t chance this kind of response, or indeed anything like it, in shops or super markets although the way things are going in our favour that day may not be that far away.

191903 ▶▶ matt, replying to Harry hopkins, 14, #341 of 1294 🔗

A conversation with the manager of my local on the day it was announced that London was moving to tier 2.

“Has HQ told you what to do?”
“Yes. I’ve just called round all my weekend bookings to ask them to confirm they live together”
“And do they?”
“Yes.” (Straight face). “I’ve got a group of 6 lads booked for the football on Saturday. Student house.” (Straight face).

191917 ▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to matt, 9, #342 of 1294 🔗

I’m reminded of that age old saying;

‘Rules are for the guidance of wise men…and the strict following of fools’

191936 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #343 of 1294 🔗

Applies doubly to nonsense such as blanket speed limits that are necessarily wrong in most places most of the time, and are there basically for the convenience of enforcement so they can punish people without having to prove they did something actually dangerous (which in the vast majority of cases they did not)..

191926 ▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Harry hopkins, 4, #344 of 1294 🔗

To be fair to Tim Martin he has had many sceptic articles in his magazine since the pubs reopened .But at the end of the day these businesses are there to make money and the more pain they face the more they will push back which can only be good for the cause .

191948 ▶▶ John P, replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #345 of 1294 🔗

Yes, I seem to recall Wetherspoons put up little resistance to the restrictions way back in the summer:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/11981586/rules-wetherspoons-customers-pubs-reopen/

191968 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Harry hopkins, 12, #346 of 1294 🔗

Time for Tim Martin, Luke Johnson and Hugh Osmond to put their money where their mouth and help Dolan, or launch some legal challenges of their own, or fund mass media campaign against the lies, or leads an industry wide campaign to push back. Unless they are doing so already, but keeping quiet about it. Easy for me to say, I am not rich and have no reputation to lose, but their world is being turned to shit just like ours.

191901 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 1, #347 of 1294 🔗

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.09.20210146v1

SARS-CoV-2 waves in Europe: A 2-stratum SEIRS model solution
Above is the article .I read the abstract which seemed very difficult to understand. Reading the whole article is in fact a bit easier. But this twitter thread below in 29 parts of the author says it more clearly. Not good news for those attacking GBD.

https://twitter.com/federicolois/status/1317297489612017664

191905 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to swedenborg, #348 of 1294 🔗

Perhaps readers of these comments will want to focus on the slogan

coronavirus parties minimize final deaths

191970 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #349 of 1294 🔗

Why?

Deaths from the minor common cold coronavirus epidemic that ended many months ago occur at the same age as normal life expectancy.

Far better to focus on the slogan: ‘One life, live it!’

192386 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #350 of 1294 🔗

I think this phrase is just to get attraction to the article in which they say that spread among younger persons will in the end reduce the deaths in the elderly. This is not really something new for C-19.In 2008 this article was published

Too Little of a Good Thing A Paradox of Moderate Infection Control

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2652751/

“For those pathogens that cause more severe disease among hosts of an older age, interventions that limit transmission can paradoxically increase the burden of disease in a population.

 The most ironic thing is that one of the authors of this article is Marc Lipsitch, one of the signatory of the Jon Snow declaration and in the anti GBD camp!

191912 wat tyler, 4, #351 of 1294 🔗

Not happy with all the left right divide on the main page .Some stupid poll concerning the American election which as usual tells us nothing about the real world and just wants to entrap people into living in boxes .For those without eyes to see Sunetra Gupta is a woman ,very left wing and is one of our greatest assets .What we need at this moment is total unity between everyone from whatever stripe of the political spectrum to come together against the lockdowns and saying men and women think differently or democrats in america are all pro lockdown is a disincentive for them to join us . I don’t want to single anyone out but someone on here last night tried to dismiss the guy from the Liverpool gym ,who faced down armed police because a tee shirt he was wearing didnt agree with what he considered the right political views ( What is there to say, only that it’s sad to mock the afflicted so i will stop now.) .If certain people could put their political leanings to one side for a moment and be honest with themselves there’s a lot to be learned from the left in terms of campaigning and political material also the direct action type anarchist protest stuff of the past may be something we should look towards should things continue as they are going. On a last note i’m incredible grateful to Toby Young for this site but the serious of it at times leaves a lot to be desired. Before people start ranting and name calling ask yourselves a serious question before attacking the left, would a left wing campaign group that was calling for real change have an advert for expensive salmon in the middle of it’s daily bulletin?. It’s time we stopped playing games and become a serious movement .

191930 ▶▶ John P, replying to Sarigan, #353 of 1294 🔗

I like the piece by Ivor Cummins.

191952 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sarigan, #354 of 1294 🔗

It’s ALL coming out now….

191921 Jules, #355 of 1294 🔗

Nazi bag… https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-54573790
What about the poor sods employed by the clubs and ancillary industry. Essential for them I expect.

191923 Mark, replying to Mark, 1, #356 of 1294 🔗

Jeremy Warner in the Telegraph makes the mistake of thinking it was China’s heavy-handed reaction that rid the country of Covid, even though, as he acknowledges, Japan also saw low impact despite a much lighter touch. In fact, five million people fled Wuhan before the lockdown – some containment. The real source of the East-West difference is much more likely to be pre-existing cross-immunity

What authoritarians always forget when they insist that at least such regimes “make the trains run on time” – basically the approach underlying the idea that Chinese repression successfully defeats viruses, is that such regimes are almost invariably highly corrupt, which generally undermines any attempt to force people to do things they don’t want to do “for the greater good”. The powerful/connected/wealthy ones just bribe or sleaze their way out of it, leaving the powerless, as always, to do what they must.

The only case for authoritarian rule is harsh necessity, when the only alternative is civil war,bloody leftist chaos or a worse dictatorship. When a society has become so “diverse” (ie divided) that it cannot reach consensus, and when the division is not sufficiently geographically based to allow secession or separation, then people will turn to authority to clamp down. That is never a good thing, but sometimes it can be necessary and better than the alternative.

191929 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Mark, 3, #357 of 1294 🔗

Perhaps the Chinese just realized what a load of nonsense it was, declared victory and went home.

191933 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to calchas, 3, #358 of 1294 🔗

Or perhaps the Chinese role – that of igniting the crisis- has now been played.

191956 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to calchas, 4, #359 of 1294 🔗

I think all of the above. I simply cannot believe that Chinese actions in Hubei have successfully suppressed the virus from China, a populous and internally connected country, a virus that has spread globally. It is utterly implausible. They have simply stopped testing or they fiddle the figures.

191986 ▶▶▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Julian, 2, #360 of 1294 🔗

Absolutely, you would have to be an idiot to think that their Wuhan lockdown (during Chinese New Year – the biggest mass migration on the planet) stopped it spreading throughout a population of 1.6bn.

192064 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to calchas, #361 of 1294 🔗

Most likely yes. Though that has no bearing on my point above.

192081 ▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, 2, #362 of 1294 🔗

Very interesting, isn’t it, that nowhere in China seems to have experienced a second wave. In this new “multiple wave” epidemic theory that now seems to be the orthodoxy, is there any explanation for why the Wuhan lockdown was so successful that it not only managed to suppress the first onslaught, but also all future waves?

192156 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 1, #363 of 1294 🔗

I think everyone now assumes the Chinese numbers are worthless.

192172 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, 1, #364 of 1294 🔗

I think that’s a fair assumption.

Though, to be just as fair, so are most numbers from most other countries.

192098 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Mark, #365 of 1294 🔗

There was a recent outbreak in China, involving 30 something asymptomatic people. 10 million were tested, with no positives found. Hmmm?

191931 Humanity First, replying to Humanity First, 50, #366 of 1294 🔗

Thought it would be worth sharing this comment from poster Rhys Jaggar on Off-Guardian:

Chris Whitty is now becoming a politician saying that ‘history will judge us well’.

I think history will judge Chris Whitty as a well-remunerated apparatchik entirely immune to the economic tsunami he has unleashed.

If I were PM, I would make sure that all the salivating ‘total lockdown’ nutcases were immediately placed on a maximum wage of £24,000 a year until they retire.

There is an enormous correlation between the alarmists and those getting full pay. There is a very low correlation between those getting economically wiped out and those promotion economic armageddon.

Whitty will be on a salary well north of £100,000 a year so is very much ‘I’m alright Jack’. He has no concept of economic hardship, no concept of his sector of employment being wiped out, no concept of choosing between bad alternatives to find the least bad one.

He is obsessed with delaying the death of the over 80s and is prepared to sacrifice the life prospects of the next three generations to achieve that pointless goal.

Quite why he thinks that will be judged well is quite astonishing.
It will only be judged well if the history writers are the same propagandising BS merchants that currrently fill the MSM. And they are all on full pay too, aren’t they?

192133 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Humanity First, 6, #367 of 1294 🔗

He has no concept of economic hardship

so true about the majority in parliament and think tanks etc

192558 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Humanity First, 2, #368 of 1294 🔗

That means the government will have to take the same pay cut. Fat chance of that.

191937 assoc, replying to assoc, 2, #369 of 1294 🔗

No doubt the question has been asked a thousand times but, why exactly is the government so keen to test everybody?

191946 ▶▶ Julian, replying to assoc, 11, #370 of 1294 🔗

It perpetuates the idea that the virus is exceptionally dangerous and makes it look the government is doing something useful. Some of them might even believe it serves a useful purpose. I know someone senior in public health who thinks it is useful – technocrats like being technocratic. If you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

191964 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 2, #371 of 1294 🔗

Boys ‘n’ Toys – partly. But also more sinister motivations in modelling information about the population.

192031 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Julian, #372 of 1294 🔗

If you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail.” Quote of the day. A good one.

192371 ▶▶▶▶ Polemon2, replying to Tenchy, #373 of 1294 🔗

In this case, a sledgehammer and.nuts comes to mind.
Some organisations have money to burn.

192492 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Tenchy, #374 of 1294 🔗

If I had a hammer, Wancock’s head would look very like a nail.

191967 ▶▶ matt, replying to assoc, 14, #375 of 1294 🔗

I think it goes like this

Back in March, someone had noticed that both Germany and Korea seemed to be “doing well” in terms of deaths. The one obvious thing that both countries seemed to have in common was large scale testing. Then some WHO-numpty or other said that the key was “test, test, test”.

So the British press got the bit between their teeth pushing the idea that testing somehow magically made the virus go away and kept banging on and on about it. So Hancock decided to make some ludicrous promise about getting testing numbers up to 100k a day. Everyone said “can’t be done” and then he just about did it. And Hancock was very smug about it. But by then, he was caught in the logic that more and more testing was the key and that people would be pleased with him if there was more and more testing, so he kept going.

“Testing” has now become a pointless talisman (yet another) and it as accepted as a given that testing is part of the solution, without any actual logic behind it.

And now we have – what? – 300k a day testing capacity and an inevitable casedemic underway, but you can’t lower the testing capacity because everybody expects it to be there and anyway, the casedemic benefits the government’s story that another lockdown is needed (to justify the first one)

Testing outside a clinical setting achieves nothing. Test and trace cannot work, whatever your testing capacity. It doesn’t improve anybody’s ability to control outbreaks. It serves only to produce numbers to be fed into models and inform increasingly bizarre policy.

192239 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to matt, 2, #376 of 1294 🔗

Dear Matt, although I left my native Germany just before they “locked down” (oh, I hate that expression) after visiting my parents, I do know they did no wide spread testing then. But they were better at tracing, as it was done by your local Health authority, not some central gov body that had to be invented first.

192243 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Silke David, #377 of 1294 🔗

Thanks David – I understand that it’s true. At the time, the only explanation I could think of for why a supposedly greater testing capacity could have had any effect on actual numbers of deaths, was that it was being used effectively in hospital to isolate the infected from the vulnerable. Since a test is not a cure, I couldn’t make any other logical link. Given the UK care home fiasco, I still think that’s probably right.

192051 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to assoc, #378 of 1294 🔗

Because they’ve given out the contracts to their friends. Serco are involved.

192178 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to assoc, 1, #379 of 1294 🔗

Because it is so dangerous you have to have a test to know you have got it even though you probably won’t have any symptoms or feel ill and they can have your DNA to keep on a database, sorry Excel spreadsheet.

191950 James Marker, replying to James Marker, 13, #380 of 1294 🔗

Did anybody hear Whitty’s lecture delivered online at Gresham College? He made a case for state intervention and interference in people’s lives in order to promote public health. If you followed his argument through to its natural conclusion, then you would ban alcohol, restrict people’s diets, force people to be vaccinated… In short, you would destroy freedom and take complete control of people’s lives. Does that sound like the Great Reset? Sure, but then what is the Great Reset if not communism under a different name.

191958 ▶▶ John P, replying to James Marker, 3, #381 of 1294 🔗

It certainly sounds like Chris Whitty. And he is advising the Prime Minister.

191963 ▶▶ RickH, replying to James Marker, 6, #382 of 1294 🔗

It’s not ‘communism’ – it’s totalitarianism. You’re indulging in the same sort of polemical redefinition as the Covid backers.

192190 ▶▶▶ James Marker, replying to RickH, #383 of 1294 🔗

Rick, sorry to come back late on this one – I have a life to live and I don’t spend all my time on this site. It is a simple historical fact that communist regimes are also totalitarian regimes.  We may disagree on who are the best guarantors of freedom, but I believe we are united at least in not wishing to become enslaved under a world government.

192015 ▶▶ Jo, replying to James Marker, 3, #384 of 1294 🔗

I have been on about this creeping medicalisation of life for decades now. Has anyone else read Illich? I didn’t agree with him 100% but not that far off.

192021 ▶▶▶ Jo, replying to Jo, 2, #385 of 1294 🔗

It’s not the whole deal, but “healthcare” is a tool and we have seen how fear about a relatively mild infectious disease can be harnessed to destroy us all. We are all being destroyed in one way or another.

192151 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Jo, #386 of 1294 🔗

Yes Illich and Sasz now seem very prescient.

192032 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to James Marker, 1, #387 of 1294 🔗

20 fags cost £15 a packet, a packet of vape coils have to have a warning on that says “This produce contains nicotine and can be highly addictive”. They are vape coils, no nicotine involved….

192046 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Two-Six, 2, #388 of 1294 🔗

There was a study done in the last few years trying to say that smokers cost the NHS more than the tax they contribute from duty. The methodology used the most tenuous links to expand the smoker’s impact. But you could then apply this to anything. Typical paper – saying much meaning nothing

Bending over backwards to not admit that yes, smokers by and large do fund their NHS treatments

192033 ▶▶ Mark, replying to James Marker, 2, #389 of 1294 🔗

Once you concede the principle that the state can intervene for people’s own supposed good (eg seatbelts), where do you hope to draw any firm line?

192085 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to James Marker, 4, #390 of 1294 🔗

Me and Mr TT watched it last night in total disbelief. Several of the comments on the Telegraph article are openly calling him insane. If you look on the internet, you will find an article he co-authored in 1992 about student alcohol consumption. I would conclude that he is anti-alcohol. Interestingly, although he has a go at Big Tobacco, he does not similarly criticise Big Pharma. There is no such thing as Big Alcohol due to the significantly less consolidated structure of the industry. Diageo and Pernod Ricard are large multinationals but account for a small percentage of global spirits consumption, and beer is essentially domestic due to the weight/value metric. In any event there are several studies from the 1990s that show that moderate consumption of alcohol (not just red wine) are beneficial to health, particularly heart disease.

His chart of life expectancy was problematic on several fronts. Of course public health has had an impact on mortality, particularly in areas such as sanitation, but if you eliminate war, famine and women dying in childbirth, the curve flattens significantly. Once you reached the age of 50 even in the Victorian era, if you were not a working class employee in an industrial setting, your chances of living to 75 were pretty good.

192105 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #391 of 1294 🔗

but if you eliminate war, famine and women dying in childbirth, the curve flattens significantly. Once you reached the age of 50 even in the Victorian era, if you were not a working class employee in an industrial setting, your chances of living to 75 were pretty good .”

And of course we are a massively more materially wealthy society than was Victorian England, due primarily to technological advances and buildup of capital. That flattens the curve in many, many ways beyond just the elimination of famine.

191951 Sarigan, 1, #392 of 1294 🔗

https://twitter.com/EthicalSkeptic/status/1317172864886448128

Now compare the TES chart on the left to the CDC chart on the right and a horrid realization becomes clear: The CDC is planning on counting all these deaths, as ONE EPIDEMIC tally: – ILI – PLI – CLI – Lockdown This is morally/ethically abhorrent.

In other words, the pandemic threshold is 5.7% for MMWR Week 41… Covid deaths alone = 1.6% Covid + ILI + PLI + Lockdown = 8.2% Therefore stay at home orders must be re-issued in all 50 states through April 2021…

191965 Voz 0db, replying to Voz 0db, 2, #393 of 1294 🔗

Isn’t DEMOCRACY wonderful?!

191974 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Voz 0db, 2, #394 of 1294 🔗

It would be great – if it’s happening where you are please tell what planet you’re on?

191969 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, #395 of 1294 🔗

Found this on youtube

Anyone know what happened next?

https://youtu.be/wWIbCtz_Xwk

192232 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Cecil B, #396 of 1294 🔗

I am sure lots of us on here remember. We are of that age.
Like I heard sth yesterday, that people in eastern Germany are more standing up to regulations, as they have managed once before to overthrow a government by peaceful protests.
But one had to remember that lots of people “fled” the country in the summer before leaving jobs suddenly, and therefor undermining an already weak economy.

191971 Sam Vimes, 5, #397 of 1294 🔗

690 deaths a day by November! So, they’re getting it down to half the usual average, are they? Excellent.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8850107/Support-nationwide-circuit-breaker-lockdown-spreads-Tory-backbenches.html

191972 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #398 of 1294 🔗

https://twitter.com/pwyowell/status/1317406658956578816

“Sweden-Netherlands will be an interesting one to watch for herd immunity theories. Similar peak in the first wave. Netherlands with a light lockdown saw a steeper decline and lower mortality through late spring and summer. NL mortality now creeping up while Sweden stays flat.
Very interesting three graphs.Especially the last one with the share of daily tests positive.
The seasonal wave now affecting both countries but NL much worse so far.Also intersting Sweden’s cases higher in summer compared to NL,the rip through the population?

191981 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, 2, #399 of 1294 🔗

Simplistic comparisons between countries will continue to be made, but it has been obvious for a considerable time that differences come from a wide spectrum of variables – not least of which is reporting methodology.

192395 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to RickH, 1, #400 of 1294 🔗

I think death comparisons are quite valuable. One can see clearly that Sweden takes longer time to come down in C-19 deaths than Netherlands(and many other lockdown countries incl. UK).So whilst down now in Sweden very interesting how much it will go up compared to the other lockdown countries now in the seasonal wave in Europe. This might give some clue which country first reached herd immunity.

192045 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to swedenborg, 10, #401 of 1294 🔗

BBC clearly concerned about Sweden’s example. Saw their news item on Sweden and Covid yesterday (BBC News TV channel). They are clearly in the process of forming their propaganda responses to the “bad” news about Sweden’s death rate possibly flatlining. The (not necessarily coherent) “line” appears to be:

1. If they are doing well it’s because the Swedes so love and trust their left wing welfare state and government that they instinctively do everything voluntarily that we have to be compelled to do. This is a typical BBC “fairy story” – no evidential comparisons given.

2. They may be doing better than France and Spain but are doing far worse than their neighbours. No discussion of what might be valid comparator nations or what are the benchmarks. If Sweden has a relatively undamaged economy and a properly functioning health service these should form part of the comparison.

3. Not all Swedish academics agree with policy and WHO hasn’t endorsed it. So what?

4. Pandemics are caused by superspreaders (there’s no real evidence for this in my view – it’s just superspreaders showing up clearly on track and test systems) and Swedes are good at identifying superspreaders.

5. It could all still go wrong (fingers crossed at the BBC).

The Swedish example really gets under the BBC’s skin because they have spent the last 75 years telling us we should be more like the Swedes.And now they are having to say we shouldn’t!

192088 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to OKUK, #402 of 1294 🔗

It’s extra spicy as Ikea are helping you recycle your furniture when you get evicted after losing your job due to Essential Lockdowns

192094 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to OKUK, 3, #403 of 1294 🔗

Watching people squirm on Sweden is at the same time enjoyable and repulsive.

Anecdotally, from the evidence of a few days in Stockholm and talking to as many locals as we could manage, the Swedes did and continue continue to work from home and avoid travelling – the city was quieter than usual, venues less busy, tables spaced out, shops less busy, fewer people in the offices and on public transport. But it was by no means dead, and mask wearing was at 1%. Plenty of venues were busy, as were shops, and there was no swerving, plenty of friends shaking hands and hugging.

People will argue the Swedes are more compliant and could be trusted to follow advice. I think that is largely nonsense. The UK population has shown itself to be pretty compliant, and many voluntarily locked themselves down before March 23rd, and continue to do so.

192099 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 4, #404 of 1294 🔗

The key point of course is that when working from home and distancing etc are voluntary, they are much more efficiently applied than when imposed by state fiat. Where it’s too costly to do it, it isn’t done. Where it can be done without undue cost it is, mostly, done. And when people change their assessments of the risk levels, they change their behaviour to suit.

192100 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Julian, 2, #405 of 1294 🔗

All this stuff about the Swedes being more compliant, sensible and trustworthy is revoltingly patronising.

192103 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to matt, 2, #406 of 1294 🔗

Unfortunately for the majority it sticks. Same with the population density rubbish. All the earlier critcism has been successfully memory-holed.

192147 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to DRW, 1, #407 of 1294 🔗

Indeed – the populated areas of Sweden, concentrated in and around a few cities in the south (similar to Scotland where nearly everyone lives in the Central Belt), have a pretty high population density. But the MSM didn’t want that fact aired.

192235 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to OKUK, #408 of 1294 🔗

Even if you compare like for like, Stockholm to London for example, the population density argument still does not fly. Its pathetic and so light in rigour that it demonstrates nothing but an exercise in confirmation bias

192129 ▶▶▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to matt, #409 of 1294 🔗

I’ve no doubt Carrie will be along to give us the view from the inside

192132 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Julian, #410 of 1294 🔗

It’s true there was big reduction in transport usage but I don’t think it was anywhere near what we had in the UK. I have not read that any public transport services were cut in Sweden. Does anyone know?

192231 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Julian, #411 of 1294 🔗

Most arguments against Sweden go something like “Voluntary lockdown… Errrrrrrrrr… Long Covid”

By the way voluntary lockdown sounds still immensely better to that we ate going through

191980 Dan Clarke, 6, #412 of 1294 🔗

Its like a roller coaster where msm and social media are driving the agenda the government want. The minority shouting to be locked down are winning!!

191982 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 10, #413 of 1294 🔗

When people have nothing left to lose, they will start to behave like people who have nothing left to lose

I wouldn’t want to be in the pig dictators shoes when that happens

192009 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cecil B, 2, #414 of 1294 🔗

‘To arms citizens, you have nothing to lose but your chains’ 🔗 🤜

192496 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, 1, #415 of 1294 🔗

Can he wear shoes over his trotters?

191991 Chestergal, replying to Chestergal, 1, #416 of 1294 🔗
192227 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Chestergal, #417 of 1294 🔗

Superb stuff. He’s the guy behind the letters issued to MPs telling them the consequences for voting through the Coronavirus Act again.

https://youtu.be/w9pm3Z6nFnk

Common Law is such an interesting one. First came across it during the sub prime crisis. Not an easy topic

191993 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 13, #418 of 1294 🔗

Just a reminder on the track record of Mr Neil Ferguson for those who may not be aware of it:

2001—Foot and mouth disease FMD—– Neil Ferguson’s computer modelling resulted in the slaughter of an estimated 12 million animals. The farming community was devastated by suicides and bankrupcies.

In 2002, Ferguson predicted that up to 50,000 people would die from variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, better known as “mad cow disease”. 178 people in the United Kingdom have died from vCJD, according to the National CJD Research & Surveillance Unit at the University of Edinburgh.

In 2005, Ferguson claimed that up to 200 million people would be killed by bird-flu or H5N1. By early 2006, the WHO had only linked 78 deaths to the virus, out of 147 reported cases.

In 2009, Ferguson and his team at Imperial College advised the government that swine flu or H1N1 would probably kill 65,000 people in the UK. In the end, swine flu claimed the lives of 457 people.

2020 saw Ferguson predict 500,000 deaths due to Covid-19 hastily reduced to 20,000 the day after.

And this is the kind of ‘adviser’ that kick started this whole business!!

192023 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Harry hopkins, 7, #419 of 1294 🔗

What really gets me is that there is never any penalty for failure in the public sphere.

If I did my job as badly as these jokers, I wouldn’t have a job. My successes are rewarded and my failures are punished. That is how it should be.

I would like to see a system of “public statements”, such that if you make a “public statement”, you are held to account for the veracity of that statement, and you are punished if it turns out that you were talking shite.

And I’m not just talking about punishing people who deliberately mislead. I’m talking about any failure for your “prediction” to come true, irrespective of whether it was duplicity or just plain incompetence. If you do not have the faith in your prediction to make it a “public statement”, you should not speak of that prediction.

With such a system in place, we could make it a law that public policy could only be based on by such statements.

Additionally, we could use this level of transparency to immediately invalidate any policy that turned out to be predicated on false statements.

With such a system in place, I would imagine that the number of fanciful sound bites that we would be subjected to would drop off quite quickly.

192084 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Harry hopkins, 5, #420 of 1294 🔗

I’m going to take Richard’s side in this for a particular point about Ferguson:

It’s not that he has made projections/predictions/whatever with orders of magnitude ranges – that comes from noisy data a lot of time.

So we shouldn’t blame him for that.

What I blame him for is that he bigs up the high end of his work in the press as if it is an actual possibilty and that has not been shown time and time again to be wrong.

The man lack humility and restraint.

Models are often WMDs and he should know better

192123 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to mhcp, 1, #421 of 1294 🔗

He doesn’t lack humility and restraint. Or rather, he does, as a side effect of being a self-publicising psychopath.

192168 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to mhcp, 3, #422 of 1294 🔗

I accept that there are many uncertainties when one attempts to predict the future.

The real question is, why does the government keep going back for more?

It reminds me of Basil Fawlty continually employing O’Reilly , despite the builder’s dismal track record.

192220 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Mabel Cow, 2, #423 of 1294 🔗

Except O’Reilly at least was cheap, but Ferguson gets paid too much.

191996 T. Prince, replying to T. Prince, 9, #424 of 1294 🔗

Just returned from two days in the Lakes. Took the ferry from Windemere to Sawrey (2 ish minute short hop). Rules; stay in car with windows shut, pay by contactless, foot passengers have to wear masks IN THE OPEN AIR. No one batted an eyelid at this absurdity..

192659 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to T. Prince, 1, #425 of 1294 🔗

Quite – it’s the absurdity that gets to me aswell. Close to where we live – very rural area – we have a tiny local shop, which because of social distancing, has limited it to one person in the shop at a time – so the owner & one customer at any one time, but they still wear masks and I see them queuing to go in with their masks on, at the ready!!! Not only that, but the owner knows pretty much every customer. The stupidity is mind-blowing.

191997 mhcp, 11, #426 of 1294 🔗

Florida who lifted restrictions 2 weeks ago are now seeing a Second Wave…of Bugger All

https://covidly.com/graph?country=United%20States&state=Florida#new

191998 Sam Vimes, 10, #427 of 1294 🔗

Any deaths?… Put em down as Covid.
Hospital admissions? … Put em down as Covid.
Tests? …Put em down as positive.

Looks like we got a pandemic, good buddy, and they’re about to put the hammer down.

191999 Jules, replying to Jules, -2, #428 of 1294 🔗

Also posted below on another’s thread..

One thin that struck me this morning, How is it that this site has nothing atl about Andy Burnham standing up for his city? An odd sort of hero I know, not my metaphorical cup of tea generally, but it makes me wonder when IDS gets top billing on here. At least Burnham is acting like an elected mayor.

192007 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Jules, 10, #429 of 1294 🔗

He just wants more money for Manchester Council as the price for screwing what’s left of local small businesses.

192013 ▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to karenovirus, 3, #430 of 1294 🔗

Sometimes, good things arise out of bad motives. We have to wait and see.

192252 ▶▶▶ Jules, replying to karenovirus, 1, #431 of 1294 🔗

So that’s acting on behalf of his residents.

192016 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Jules, 15, #432 of 1294 🔗

Burnham wants the whole country to lockdown so that pain is equally applied. He wants more money for businesses to see them through the tough period, not realising that he will protect more people and jobs by opening up the city entirely.

He isn’t standing up for Manchester. He’s making a partisan point about how mostly Tory strongholds aren’t getting the same treatment. Which from a political point of view is understandable but it is a weak move.

192049 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to mhcp, 5, #433 of 1294 🔗

He was after all, very zealous about mockdowns. Now he and other councils just want a juicy bung for their collaboration.

192038 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Jules, 4, #434 of 1294 🔗

I wouldn’t trust him. He is part of this lot

https://www.metropolis.org/

192260 ▶▶▶ Jules, replying to stefarm, #435 of 1294 🔗

I don’t trust him, he is a lefty. He might be useful nevertheless.

192073 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Jules, 4, #436 of 1294 🔗

Not many seem to realise, that if Burnham gets the cash, he wants an even bigger and better lockdown,

192097 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Jules, 3, #437 of 1294 🔗

Burnham is a bedwetter. Worse still, a bedwetter of the cynical/opportunistic type.

192122 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Jules, 5, #438 of 1294 🔗

Burham is pro lockdown but wants more money from the government – He could not give a stuff about business closing, people losing jobs etc

192256 ▶▶▶ Jules, replying to Victoria, 1, #439 of 1294 🔗

That sounds like a Conservative Central Office analysis! I don’t care who challenges the government on its mental policies, or why, as long as they are challenged.

192000 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, #440 of 1294 🔗

Can somebody add this fuck brain to the list

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54572538

192004 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cecil B, 2, #441 of 1294 🔗

The BBC managing to make rule by decree, without scrutiny or oversight, look like a good thing.

192011 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Cecil B, 2, #442 of 1294 🔗

Appalling. Hopefully, Wales’ dictator will go OTT next week with something like an actual curfew that I can go out and obviously break.

192096 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Cecil B, #443 of 1294 🔗

I’ll get Mr H to add him to ‘the list’

192001 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 1, #444 of 1294 🔗
192026 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Sarigan, 5, #445 of 1294 🔗

I’m still going to stand by my 5000 +/ 1000 dead from Covid-19 (or whatever the unique conditions are) and I believe that’s an overestimate

192039 ▶▶ matt, replying to Sarigan, #446 of 1294 🔗

I think this is unfortunate. I have a lot of respect for Yeadon and I think he has done very good work, but he’s beginning to sound unhinged. Nothing that he says isn’t demonstrably true, but I think that it’s critically important that he and the rest of the public, scientific voices stick to the same calm, measured tone as Heghan, Gupta, Battacharya and Kulldorf.

192054 ▶▶▶ JudgeMental, replying to matt, 3, #447 of 1294 🔗

It says on his twitter profile that he is living with chronic pain. That and dealing with this absolute madness is no doubt getting to him. But he has a lot of energy and is doing a great job.

192058 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to JudgeMental, 2, #448 of 1294 🔗

As I say, I have a lot of respect for him. I also understand why he’s angry – I’m not living with chronic pain and I’m also absolutely furious. But you can’t convince people by letting your anger show.

192057 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to matt, 3, #449 of 1294 🔗

True – and also great work by Mike Yeadon.

Mike Yeadon says that he knows the ‘what’ and the ‘how’ as well as some of the ‘who’.

He also mentions that he doesn’t understand the ‘why’.

I suspect that this is what is making him sound unhinged to you.

Because to answer the ‘why’ we have to enter what to most people is very strange territory indeed.

192069 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to calchas, #450 of 1294 🔗

To calchas and to RickH (because I think calchas was replying to Rick).

I agree with every word he says. I just think 1) he’s got the tone wrong – it reads too much like a stream of consciousness rant – and 2) he’s “opened the raincoat” too much in his first attempt at a communication with Green. I think he’s made himself too easy to ignore. Which is why I think it’s unfortunate – he should not be ignored and I would like to hope that he and others like him can get some senior political support. Although I’m not sure that Green qualifies as senior political anything.

192211 ▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to matt, 1, #451 of 1294 🔗

I read it the opposite. This is a man who has ‘got the tone’ perfectly in recent months. Methodically picking apart the narrative and with the creds to do so.

He has said in the thread that we did have a serious vrius in March but that now we have more data, reality does not square with the continued hysteria of the SAGE group and government.

At the heart of that he suggest evidence of criminality, including an indication of Who this is.

I honestly don’t know why you can say he is unhinged. To him, he’s just landed on the biggest hoodwink in history. But the tone is somehow wrong?

What would you expect? He is right though. Political bravery and leadership is needed now to get this moving. Time is short.

192222 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #452 of 1294 🔗

I didn’t say he is unhinged. I don’t think he’s unhinged. I think he’s very, very angry. The tone is absolutely fine for most circumstances, but too immoderate for the purpose he’s trying to achieve, which is trying to bring round a recently resigned politician.

192079 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to calchas, 2, #453 of 1294 🔗

He sounds more like someone who has to describe all the relevant bits of a complex issue before you get it. Because each point has been twisted and is now subject to groupthink or a person fooling themselves.

You see it on here when I mention that you need to measure things with the precision demanded by their hypothesis before performing any analysis and drawing conclusions. People think you just take data and analyse it.

192059 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to matt, 1, #454 of 1294 🔗

Not sure that there’s anything sounding ‘unhinged’.

192466 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to matt, #455 of 1294 🔗

I think the poor fellow is just incandecent with rage.

192002 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 7, #456 of 1294 🔗

While agreeing with IDS he is being a tad disingenuous when saying
“With London going into tier 2 it might come to be seen as lockdown by stealth”

Nothing ‘come to’ about it. Was perfectly obvious a creeping lockdown when they did Leicester . . . Aberdeen . . .outer Manchester . . . the West Midlands . . .wiered little bits of Wales. . . Glasgow. . .

“Creeping lockdown coming your way.”

192076 ▶▶ Julian, replying to karenovirus, 6, #457 of 1294 🔗

Lockdown never ended

It has been ongoing since March

192665 ▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Julian, 2, #458 of 1294 🔗

I agree – my lockdown doesn’t end until all the SIs passed since March are rescinded – I’m actually not expecting it to be in my lifetime & I’m in my 50s.

192077 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to karenovirus, 8, #459 of 1294 🔗

Leicester was the template.Ramp up testing in a area then use the results to lockdown the area again.
It was what convinced me that this is a conspiracy not a cock up
Now the spectre of full lockdown has reappeared just as we were warned a few weeks ago.
We need to fight back

192005 Censored Dog, replying to Censored Dog, 32, #460 of 1294 🔗

Saw a man out on the streets in town raving about this farce on a megaphone. I was in a massive rush so couldn’t stop but I gave a thumbs up!

192018 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Censored Dog, 8, #461 of 1294 🔗

Good for him.

192006 Dan Clarke, 8, #462 of 1294 🔗

How come our MP supporters of democracy have now turned into dictators demanding us to be put under house arrest which they call a ‘circuit breaker’ Jeremy *unt, formally known as Hunt

192008 Fingerache Philip., 14, #463 of 1294 🔗

There is a cafe in Shropshire (no names/no packdrill) and it is “themed” as “wartime 1940’s”
I would say that if any of the few remaining survivors of that time visited this establishment, they would find the “track and traçe”,hand sanitizing,form filling nonsense far more stringent than during the war,when there was a TRUE emergency.

192014 Tommo, replying to Tommo, 3, #464 of 1294 🔗

Quick question… other half went to M&S cafe and was to told to scan QR code with track and trace app. She refused. Both cafe worker and manager said it was a legal requirement to do so. Is this correct?

192017 ▶▶ wayno, replying to Tommo, 11, #465 of 1294 🔗

It’s not a legal requirement to use the app. It’s voluntary, just look at the gov guidelines.

192022 ▶▶ matt, replying to Tommo, 7, #467 of 1294 🔗

The government advice specifically states that no one should be refused service for not using the app. However, it also specifically states that hospitality venues should request track and trace details of everyone and should refuse entry to anyone who won’t give them. What this means is that every venue should have an alternative way of recording details.

192040 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Tommo, 21, #468 of 1294 🔗

Politely tell them that if they don’t have any customers they will lose their jobs

Tell them you know where they live, and when they are starving, and on the day before they get evicted you are going to stand outside their homes and eat six jam scones one after the other

Then tell them to go fuck themselves

192106 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Cecil B, 4, #469 of 1294 🔗

Considering the extent of our entitlement culture, they would probably reply, “If I lose my job, the government will pay my salary.”

The problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money to spend.

( Not quite her words , but close enough.)

192080 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Tommo, 9, #470 of 1294 🔗

Three ways to tackle this.

*Simply plead ignorance about an ‘app’ (as indeed around 15 million+ people in the UK can genuinely do) and volunteer to give your name and number—completely fictitious of course.

*Leave your phone at home and repeat above.

*My favourite—show them your ancient Nokia reconditioned phone and ask if this will work? When they respond with various degrees of incredulity it will result in the same as above.

I’m finding that whenever I come across ridiculous, government edicts it gives me great pleasure to be a ‘fly in the ointment’—-In the nicest possible way of course!

192089 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Tommo, 9, #471 of 1294 🔗

It is a legal requirement for them to display the QR code. It is a legal requirement for them to track your entry. It is not a legal requirement for your entry to be tracked via the code. In other words pen and paper is acceptable.

This is my understanding.

192127 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Tommo, 2, #472 of 1294 🔗

Others have already explained this very well, Tommo. I’ll just add, how can it be mandatory to use the QR code, when a lot of people won’t have a smart phone, or one that’s up to date? Or, what if they can’t use one, because of blindness, lack of fingers, learning difficulties etc., etc. This should surely be obvious to shop staff, but apparently not. You are running into disability discrimination and all sorts. What they could do is just look at the guidance…

192467 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Tommo, 2, #473 of 1294 🔗

Went to a truck stop today.

The T&T paper was empty and no-one was bothering with the QR code.

Had a chat with the staff – they said if questioned everyone ordered takeaway so no requirement for T&T.

Good to see a place actually know the legislation.

192674 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Tommo, 1, #474 of 1294 🔗

Bearing in mind all the comments on this, I would also complain to the store management and to M& S head office. The longer this goes on, my attitude is sod them, they are not providing me with the customer service I expect, so they deserve all that comes to them. I haven’t reached the excellent levels of Awkward Git, but he is certainly to be followed with gusto!

192025 GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 30, #475 of 1294 🔗

I’m pleased to see a few of my neighbours here in Glasgow sticking two fingers up to Krankie and having friends in to watch the old firm game.

192042 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 4, #476 of 1294 🔗

Good for them. I doubt that they are ‘mixed bubbles’ though!

192047 ▶▶ RickH, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 10, #477 of 1294 🔗

I think that form of quiet resistance is vital

“What ‘regulations’? Oh you mean Boris’s usually shit? We don’t take any notice of that.”

192052 ▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to RickH, 1, #478 of 1294 🔗

Been practicing that for seven months now.

192067 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #479 of 1294 🔗

We also.

But I think we have to recognize that some people in work or running a business are in a bit of a vice outside strictly private settings.

192053 ▶▶ PAM, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 2, #480 of 1294 🔗

If I recall correctly ‘Krankie’ professed to accept responsibility for her decisions, it’s on YouTube somewhere I think. If this is so, then I anticipate court cases will necessarily follow. If so, then she should pay for her own defence out of her own means and not burden the taxpayer.

192091 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 6, #481 of 1294 🔗

Everyone I know is breaking the rules for the old firm, even my manager the biggest bedwetter of all. It seems the zealots pick and choose the rules that suit them.

192029 PAM, replying to PAM, 8, #482 of 1294 🔗

The once Great Britain is suffering at the hands of an uncivil, debilitating, self interested bureaucracy captained by Boris et al., it seems to me. A good captain steers his ship away from the rocks, not toward them.

192167 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to PAM, 3, #483 of 1294 🔗

Depends if your destination is the rocks!

192035 Fingerache Philip., 11, #484 of 1294 🔗

“Make yourself a cuppa and get up to date with the latest news”
Latest patronising claptrap off a news website.
Alternatively, have a cup of coffee and completely ignore the lot along with my fellow sceptics.

192048 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #485 of 1294 🔗

Daily Mail: Support for an nationwide ‘circuit breaker’ lockdown spreads to Tory backbenches.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8850107/Support-nationwide-circuit-breaker-lockdown-spreads-Tory-backbenches.html

192071 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tom Blackburn, 8, #486 of 1294 🔗

Stupid, stupid, stupid!

Equivalent to the ‘carrot up the arse’ measure.

In fact, that could be the term for any of these useless measures that fulfil the Einstein idea of insanity : another ‘carrot up the arse’.

192112 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tom Blackburn, 5, #487 of 1294 🔗

Jeremy Hunt did not get the nod from the membership when he stood against Doris. Doris is dire, so what does that say about Hunt? Tories need a caretaker with grey hairs and cross-party respect to steady the ship after Doris has been stepped down (next few weeks in my view). Iain Duncan Smith is putting himself out there as that person, and Hunt is responding to that. Hunt’s ambition knows no bounds, but with a Chinese wife, he will go nowhere.

192119 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #488 of 1294 🔗

Interesting. I’m not sure I can see IDS getting another go though.

192130 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to matt, 2, #489 of 1294 🔗

Jeez! Is the barrel that empty? I never thought I’d feel sorry for the Tory Party. 🙂

192137 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to RickH, 2, #490 of 1294 🔗

Yeah – it is, actually. Mind you, I can’t think of anyone in any political party at the moment that I would like to see in the job. I think the strongest emotion I could conjure up for any one of them would be indifference.

192139 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to matt, 1, #491 of 1294 🔗

Actually, not the strongest – the most positive.

192155 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to matt, 4, #492 of 1294 🔗

For a defined period (say 9 months) until the next Tory conference. Rishi Dishy – or is it Dishy Rishi – needs to be trialled a bit longer as Chancellor to see if he has what it takes. Not sure who else might be in the running – perhaps Raab. For the Tories to stay in power they must know that they will need pretty much all of the next four years to turn this around. Time to move on. It’s seems as though it will be coming to a head next week/the week after.

192162 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #493 of 1294 🔗

Frankly, looking at Johnson nowadays, it wouldn’t surprise me if he just walked down the stairs and gave the keys to No. 10 back this morning. It seems clear that being PM is not turning out to be the jolly wheeze he thought it was going to be.

192121 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #494 of 1294 🔗

Hunt was in control of the NHS for something like 6 years. During that time he made no preparations for a pandemic. It is an appalling record.

192161 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to OKUK, 2, #495 of 1294 🔗

Quite – there are certainly some skeletons there. An old friend of mine, now sadly no longer with us, was not a big fan. I trust his judgment.

192479 ▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to OKUK, 1, #496 of 1294 🔗

Hunt knows which filing cabinet the Operation Cygnus report is in; he just doesn’t want the public to know.

192062 Quernus, replying to Quernus, 7, #497 of 1294 🔗

Apologies if this has been posted already, but this is a thread from Mike Yeadon’s “letter” to Chris Green, MP, on Twitter yesterday. He sounds ready to take this as far as he can go, with senior political buy-in and in consultation with senior police.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1317236300248961025.html

192093 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Quernus, 1, #498 of 1294 🔗

Hi Quernus
Having trouble keeping up / finding time. Be grateful for a summary of what this is about – if you have time 🙂
I know Mike Yeadon has done a video explaining false positives, but what else, what’s his role in the pushback movement?

192157 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Rosie, 2, #499 of 1294 🔗

Read all the twitter thread posted by Quernus. Makes it clear.

Also, read this from yesterday: https://lockdownsceptics.org/what-sage-got-wrong/

192170 ▶▶▶ Quernus, replying to Rosie, 8, #500 of 1294 🔗

I know that feeling only too well, Rosie!

Basically, in this thread, Mike Yeadon sums up his conclusions that the government has consistently overstated the extent of danger and harm caused by this pandemic, which he considers to be a criminal enterprise. You know the arguments he’s put before, and he sets them out in this thread clearly and backed up with links to evidence. He is calling upon Chris Green, MP to work with him in stopping the madness. He believes that one confession that PCR testing is wildly unreliable is needed to bring down the government’s whole strategy (something I’ve been thinking for several weeks now). I suspect this thread could well be deleted or Mike Yeadon banned from Twitter.

Grounds for calling the government to account:

  1. There have been no excess deaths since June
  2. There have been a normal level of hospitalisation rates for this time of year, but no information is given about discharge rates, which are unusually high
  3. Re the high number of cases – PCR is wholly unsuitable, huge issue with false positive rates, including from cross contamination (refers to resignation of two senior scientists from a Lighthouse Lab), and concludes that mass testing is being done badly deliberately to frighten people into believing there is a deadly and growing pandemic.
  4. Contends that nearly all “covid 19 deaths” are really “false positive covid 19 deaths” (cites Dr Clare Craig’s research).
  5. Believes that a great crime is being committed now, although doubts that it was planned.
  6. Believes we are no longer in a pandemic, but SAGE says that we are, resulting in continuing draconian measures causing great harm.

I hope that Mr Green sees this thread and acts upon it – I have sent him a link to the thread reader. This is worth sharing far and wide.

Hope this helps.

192236 ▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Quernus, #501 of 1294 🔗

Thank you, Quernus, that is definitely helpful.
Thanks to all the other replies and comments as well.
This is a bit long but on similar lines and excellent, from the US https://www.aier.org/article/the-year-of-disguises/

192111 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Quernus, 10, #502 of 1294 🔗

It think it is becoming obvious that this is a political coup.
It’s whether the masses wake up before the police state is instituted.
I thought the collapse of the economy would be the key but the regime have found a way to suspend reality while they finish building the surveillance apparatus

192128 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #503 of 1294 🔗

The hysterical headlines provide perfect cover for all sorts of shenanigans.

I doubt the general public would care at the best of times, but things like the Overseas Operations Bill can just sail through whilst the media distracts everyone with coronamania.

192270 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Mabel Cow, 1, #504 of 1294 🔗

The public probably wouldn’t care but the opposition and press would have a made a huge stink over such legislation in normal times.

192682 ▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #505 of 1294 🔗

I’m afraid the people where I live are still at the stage of ‘we have to wear masks to protect the community’ and ‘it us only temporary’. But then, I am in Scotland, so there is a lot more brainwashing here because of the SNP etc.

192125 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Quernus, 4, #506 of 1294 🔗

All the evidence that’s there’s conspiracy exists without knowing anything about PCR. But as that’s the central, technical tool, it should be “bagged as evidence” & STOPPED the very next day.

Hear hear!

192136 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Quernus, 5, #507 of 1294 🔗

From Mike Yeadon’s thread

“There’s the normal numbers being admitted. Normal in autumn is an upward trend for respiratory admissions. What they’re not telling you is that DISCHARGE rates…
@mentions
…are unusually high. People are being admitted for fear of covid19 but many get sent home a day or two later, because they’re not ill enough to be in hospital.”

192143 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #508 of 1294 🔗

Also “Two senior scientists resigned yesterday from a Lighthouse Lab:”

192149 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #509 of 1294 🔗

Also “The vast majority of COVID deaths in England since July have been mislabelled false positive deaths. Here is the proof. This chart shows the number of tests carried out in hospitals in orange and the deaths in blue. THREAD”

192159 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #510 of 1294 🔗

Also “By mid summer, daily deaths were falling steadily..
…and we were nearing the end.

We are out the end. Most of the country has too few people who remain susceptible. That’s why excess deaths stopped.

ITS JUST THAT SAGE SAYS WE’RE NOT.

And that’s the long & short if it.

I’d be happy to speak tomorrow. This has to stop.”

192174 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #511 of 1294 🔗

Also “The charge sheet against persons unknown include actions:

-leading to the AVOIDABLE deaths of tens of thousands of innocent people, aged much younger than those genuinely dying of covid19.

-nearly if not actually collapsing the economy of a mid sized nation, which will have…
@mentions
…social, mental, economic & lethal consequences for millions of people.

-causing paralysing fear into so many hearts & families.”

192179 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #512 of 1294 🔗

Also “Oh: I knew there was…
@mentions
…something else. OFCOM has in effect a particularly unpleasant set of broadcasting guidelines which were introduced on the day of lockdown in March.

“However, we remind all broadcasters of the significant potential harm that can be caused by material relating to the…
@mentions
… Coronavirus. This could include:
• Health claims related to the virus which may be harmful.
• Medical advice which may be harmful.
• Accuracy or material misleadingness in programmes in relation to the virus or public policy regarding it.
We will be prioritising…
@mentions
… our enforcement of broadcast standards in relation to the above issues”.
Link: ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/…

That guidance must be immediately withdraw & after that it will be wall to wall “Pandemic is Over” headlines. So I trust.”

Much more besides I hope you find the time and make an effort to read the thread in full.

192171 ▶▶ Alice, replying to Quernus, 6, #513 of 1294 🔗

Mike Yeadon – hero of the resistance!

192075 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #514 of 1294 🔗

Some very interesting info about vitamin D.

http://www.drdavidgrimes.com/

192131 ▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #515 of 1294 🔗

Wow, the research going into vitamin D and seriosness of disease results should be music to the Governments ears! Give everyone Vit D and open the economy (£12 per year per person to administer) SO WHY DO THEY NOT DO IT?

192145 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, #516 of 1294 🔗
192195 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 4, #517 of 1294 🔗

Great question. They don’t do it because it is cheap and would result in healthy people. The information about Vitamin D being critical for good health has been available since the last decade, however it has been censored, laughed at, ignored, etc and patients health have continued to deteriorate.

Sadly many doctors are unaware of the benefits of optimised vitamin D levels. Doctors prescribe vitamin D2, synthetic vitamin D that is much more difficult for the body to absorb. Vitamin D3 (the best version after sun exposure) is affordable for most and easy to obtain. The laboratory ranges are also much lower than that of the optimal ranges.

Optimal Vitamin D levels are critical during pregnancy and would reduce the risk of preeclampsia . —> Do GPs/midwifes ensure that all pregnant women are tested for vitamin D levels and then supplement to the optimal level (this is much higher than RDA)? NO

Vitamin D, preeclampsia and prematurity
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0266613820300802

—> Do GPs ensure that all patients with memory problems , Alzheimers , Osteoporosis are tested for vitamin D levels and then supplement to the optimal level (this is much higher than RDA)? NO

Vitamin D and Alzheimers disease
https://www.alzheimersorganization.org/vitamin-d-and-alzheimers

Great Vitamin D website
https://vitamindwiki.com

192923 ▶▶▶▶ kate lewis, replying to Victoria, #518 of 1294 🔗

We do however prescribe D3 to many patients including pregnant women and the elderly. Some of us prescribe higher doses than others depending on how well informed we are!

192083 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #519 of 1294 🔗

Daily Mail: Liverpool’s mayor Joe Anderson reveals his brother has died from coronavirus.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8850251/Liverpools-mayor-Joe-Anderson-reveals-brother-died-coronavirus.html

192092 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #520 of 1294 🔗

“Liverpool mayor Joe Anderson today announced his eldest brother Bill has sadly died a day after being admitted to intensive care with coronavirus.”

With coronavirus. Not of coronavirus.

Based on Ioannides’ IFR figures and the ONS deaths-with-COVID-on-certificate, about 30% of the UK will have been infected with SARS-CoV-2 by now. There’s a good chance that Mr Anderson’s brother could have fallen down the stairs and still died “with coronavirus”, given the absurdly high PCR cycle thresholds being employed.

192102 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Mabel Cow, 10, #521 of 1294 🔗

Either way his perspectives and decision-making will surely be shaped by his personal losses. That will not help Liverpool.

192154 ▶▶ Matt The Cat, replying to Tom Blackburn, 8, #522 of 1294 🔗

First thing that went through my mind when I read this news report was “Hey – How “convenient”!”.
Nothing’s changed in the intervening hour or so. If anything it’s reinforced my belief that they’re “all in this together”.
Hard hearted? If true, then maybe. But even so – elderly people die. Get over it.
Comes to us all. In the meantime, let us who are still living LIVE!

192375 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #523 of 1294 🔗

Lots of people die and that is sad but we cannot decimate the economy to try and save 1 person.

192090 Mark, 7, #524 of 1294 🔗

“But Van Broekhoven is unrepentant. ‘Our audience research has shown that visitors often saw the museum’s displays of human remains as a testament to other cultures being “savage”, “primitive” or “gruesome”. “

These cultures were objectively, incontestably primitive. Claiming the contrary is simply perverse, or dishonesty motivated by ideology and political gain.

As for “savage” and “gruesome”, these are inherently subjective terms, but it was clearly not unreasonable to apply them to many of the cultures and practices to which the terms were applied.

Consider (shifting context somewhat to a much less relatively primitive society) the famous response of Charles Napier to the practice of suttee in India:

Be it so. This burning of widows is your custom; prepare the funeral pile. But my nation has also a custom. When men burn women alive we hang them, and confiscate all their property. My carpenters shall therefore erect gibbets on which to hang all concerned when the widow is consumed. Let us all act according to national customs!

192095 concrete68, replying to concrete68, 6, #525 of 1294 🔗

Scientist A: there is no such thing as herd immunity and we can’t protect the vulnerable.

Scientist B: herd immunity should be our goal as with other viruses and thats how vaccines work

I would have thought that science had a clear answer on this otherwise what have we been doing for a 100 years?

192114 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to concrete68, 6, #526 of 1294 🔗

The trouble is, science and scient ists are two different things.

I think science died quite some time ago.

192124 ▶▶ JudgeMental, replying to concrete68, 1, #527 of 1294 🔗

You would think so but having watched one of Ivor Cummins excellent videos a few months ago with a scientist we are still learning how our cells and immune system works at a molecular level. And it’s both complex and amazing.

192891 ▶▶ djaustin, replying to concrete68, 1, #528 of 1294 🔗

Sadly the truth is always much more complicated, often obscure and depends on the pathogen of interest. That’s science.

Scientist C: Infection may confer immunity that wanes in a timescale that may or may not be long enough to prevent reinfection and convey limited herd immunity. That immunity may not be sterilizing and people who are “immune” may still get asymptomatic infections…

192101 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 42, #529 of 1294 🔗

I just want to say thank you again for all your prayers and kind words last night.

DiL is doing well today with BP lower than mine (!) and pre-eclampsia markers now normal. They’ll probably keep her in overnight again to be sure.
Baby is very lively and kicking, so hopefully will be able to stay safely in the womb for at least another couple of months.
Son decided the most useful thing he could do was try to get some sleep – and I’m very happy to say that he did!

Much gratitude to all involved. xx

192117 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #530 of 1294 🔗

Really good news.

192158 ▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #531 of 1294 🔗

Really happy to hear. X

192169 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #532 of 1294 🔗

Very pleased to hear this. It was on my mind as I lay awake last night, for the fourth night in a row.

192485 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #533 of 1294 🔗

Nice one!

192550 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #534 of 1294 🔗

My thoughts & prayers to you & yours Cheezilla. Regards, Arnie.

192104 TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to TheOriginalBlackPudding, 49, #535 of 1294 🔗

There seems to be a definite change of mood in the air here (Lancashire).
I went to do my regular Saturday shopping on the market this morning and the anger at our having been “Tier-3ed” was palpable.
Gone the stoic acceptance that lockdown was a necessary evil, there’s now fury that we are being told to cancel all life’s pleasures, interrupt relationships, remain within the county. The attitude was that people are going to do what they like and two fingers to the government. A lot of comments on the lines of our having to live with the virus as with any other, flu is killing 10 times more than Covid etc. The messages are breaking through and gaining traction.
And it was noticeable too that the market traders who’ve been forced to wear those stupid plastic face shields, which mist up in the cold open air (!) are ditching them. All power to their elbow and to hell with council jobsworths.

192109 ▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to TheOriginalBlackPudding, 19, #536 of 1294 🔗

Found exactly the same in the (currently tier 1 south) People have had enough. They know it’s falling apart. They know death rates. They know averages ages. They know there’s another way. This is just the start!

192541 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 8, #537 of 1294 🔗

They are beginning to suss things out and to me it seems increasingly likely that this whole Covid fiasco is nothing more than propaganda, lies and an expensively rebranded seasonal flu.

192115 ▶▶ RickH, replying to TheOriginalBlackPudding, 9, #538 of 1294 🔗

I really hope so. But don’t blame the ‘jobsworths’. Blame the Tory Party who got us here with the Buffoon’s Buffon.

192135 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to RickH, 20, #539 of 1294 🔗

Every tyranny rests on an army of jobsworths.

This goes far and above and beyond party politics.

192176 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to calchas, 2, #540 of 1294 🔗

I’m talking about the prime movers, not the ordinary functionaries carrying out the measures.

192301 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RickH, 11, #541 of 1294 🔗

I thought Starmer proved himself not fit to govern when he took the knee.
He’s showed his true colours this week and proved himself to be absolutely despicable.

Not that the other lot are any better!

We are seriously in need of a proper leader who actually has some clout, some cahones and a conscience.

192553 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to RickH, 4, #542 of 1294 🔗

Prime movers? They are Bill Gates and his globalist friends.

192549 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to calchas, 5, #543 of 1294 🔗

This is global and party politicians are just bit players. That being said, Johnson and the rest of his crazies are acting treasonably and should be dealt with accordingly.

192141 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 18, #544 of 1294 🔗

By all means blame the “Conservative” Party, but don’t make the mistake that some would like us to make, of letting the Labour Party off the hook for being even more disastrously stupid than the government.

Remember there are two potential bad outcomes here:

1 The “Conservative” Party hierarchy doesn’t suffer for what it has done

and

2 The Labour Party benefits from the situation despite having been even worse than the “Conservatives” and having played their full part in pushing things in the wrong direction.

192165 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, 7, #545 of 1294 🔗

If you note my posts, I’ve never let the Labour Party off the hook. Quite the contrary. I’ve just been a bit titivated by posts here from those of a different political persuasion who try to excuse the authors of this shit-show by trying to pretend it’s some kind of ‘left’ wing plot.

Which is plain bollocks.

For clarity : the Labour Party – like the Guardian – has been captured by the establishment interests behind all this. And those interests are certainly not ‘left wing’.

BTW – ‘whataboutery’ is always a sign of a lost argument.

192191 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 3, #546 of 1294 🔗

You’re constantly trying to let the Labour Party off the hook by insisting that anyone blaming them should only focus on the”Conservative” Party’s faults. I try to refocus blame where it belongs – on the entire established political class and both main parties.

BTW – ‘whataboutery’ is always a sign of a lost argument .

This would appear to be an assertion largely empty of meaning, relevance or credibility.

192188 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to RickH, 8, #547 of 1294 🔗

I’m not a Tory voter but there is no indication that this would have been better under a Corbyn government.
The real lack of Patriots in both parties is a big part of why we are here.

192166 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to TheOriginalBlackPudding, 7, #548 of 1294 🔗

There are times when I think this but times when I think the opposite. Been out and about driving and shopping this morning in some busy places. There are many more masked people outdoors than even a week ago, and a lot more wearing them in their cars.

192291 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Now More Than Ever, 3, #549 of 1294 🔗

I think those people who haven’t been literally scared witless, honestly think (hope?) if they “behave” it will all go away.
Most people, already worried and stressed, are going to avoid any extra hassle.
That absolutely doesn’t excuse outdoor muzzle-wearing though!

192107 James, 3, #550 of 1294 🔗
  1. I would like to highly recommend this 45-minute talk called “ The Fact-Free COVID Dystopia ” given by Tom Woods on 9th October. I think it’s very powerful, with all the arguments in one place, and anyone who’s on the fence should be persuaded by this.
  2. Regarding the Great Barrington Declaration (which I have signed), whilst it would be infinitely preferable to the current situation, I think there are some problems with it, which are well explained by Michael Accad, MD , in the following article, called “ The Great Barrington Declaration: A Few Words of Caution ”.
  3. Last but not least, a new book was published on 13th October, condemning the global pandemic response (as far as I know, the first one to do so), called “ The Price Of Panic: How The Tyranny Of Experts Turned A Pandemic Into A Catastrophe ”, written by Professors Jay Richards, William Briggs, and Douglas Axe . It’s available on Amazon .
192108 John Ballard, replying to John Ballard, 26, #551 of 1294 🔗

Merseyside Derby in the pub, really busy and all tables full. Declined to sign in to nhs track and trace. Actually very normal and nice! There is life outside of the buffoons stupidity, lots just cracking on as per normal.
Maybe the pub is the last outpost of normality???

192118 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to John Ballard, 16, #552 of 1294 🔗

Not while muzzles needed on entry, exit and toilet going

192126 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to arfurmo, 13, #553 of 1294 🔗

Agree, nothing normal about that. Walking into a pub, walking to the bar and asking a barman for a pint. Drinking pint at bar or deciding to sit at a table. That is normal.

192144 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to stefarm, 9, #554 of 1294 🔗

Good point. We mustn’t acclimatize to the unacceptable.

192152 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to stefarm, 5, #555 of 1294 🔗

I miss being able to stand/ sit at the bar and have a respectful/ informative discussion with others more than anything else.

192142 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to arfurmo, 7, #556 of 1294 🔗

Much as I hate the masks the patent absurdity of putting on a face nappy when you stand up in a pub is actually, imho, a gift for lockdown scepticism.

192163 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to John Ballard, #557 of 1294 🔗

Go for it.
From a Wolves supporter.

192328 ▶▶ John Ballard, replying to John Ballard, 2, #558 of 1294 🔗

Agree with the comments below. I have been going to this pub since 16, that’s 36 years ago. Yes I would sooner walk up to the bar and order a pint but considering I walk through the town and see the masked muppets out in the fresh air, once sat down it is like normal. It isn’t what it was, but it’s closer to what it was than most things. Shameful I know to clutch at straws, but with the buffoon and hapless running the country like 1930s Germany what do you do???

192110 Alan P, replying to Alan P, 11, #559 of 1294 🔗

I think the strategy being played out is to keep the panic and fear ramped up to the max.

why?

No proof on my suspicions, but I wonder how many members of SAGE and the government, politicians of all hues, all have vested interests in pharmaceuticals. Think how much money can be made from vaccines, treatments, continued face mask wearing etc.?

Where are the real investigative journalists in all this?

192120 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Alan P, 4, #560 of 1294 🔗

Well its already out there about other interests that Whitty and Vallance have got in pharma, also Serco, ministers or ex ministers, so many fingers in the covid pie

192140 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #561 of 1294 🔗

Precisely. Whitty, Vallance and Van Tam all have connections to Big Pharma – as do many of the ‘brown nose’ rent-an-academic types who pop up to kiss the governmental arse and justify the latest ‘carrot up the bum’.

It’s big money time in this field – the rewards that they are chasing are immense.

192283 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RickH, #562 of 1294 🔗

Serco must be coining it in. How many daily tests are we up to now?

192279 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #563 of 1294 🔗

Health Secretary Matt Hancock has said he found out from a newspaper about UK chief scientific adviser Sir Patrick Vallance’s shares in a drug company contracted to develop a coronavirus vaccine for the Government.

But the Cabinet minister denied there was a conflict of interest in Sir Patrick, who leads the Government’s expert advisory panel on vaccines, reportedly holding shares worth £600,000 in pharmaceutical giant GlaxoSmithKline (GSK).

According to The Telegraph, Sir Patrick holds a deferred bonus of 43,111 shares in the British multinational outfit from his time as president of the company.

But Mr Hancock said “any suggestion” the scientific adviser was “doing anything other than his level best to try and tackle this virus” was “wrong”.

Hahahahahahahahahaha!

192138 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Alan P, 9, #564 of 1294 🔗

Without the fear, the whole thing falls apart. Then people start asking questions. You don’t particularly need tonnes of evidence to surmise this, just a set of eyes and working synapses.

192153 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #565 of 1294 🔗

Something clearly lacking from the majority…

192275 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to DRW, 2, #566 of 1294 🔗

Watching BBC makes your brain shrink.

192273 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #567 of 1294 🔗

It’s becoming very transparent from the wrangling over Tier 3, that local governments know it’s an entirely political issue.
The sudden demise of Jabba the Android’s brother was a suspiciously useful event.

192148 ▶▶ Will, replying to Alan P, 1, #568 of 1294 🔗

I wonder how many MPs have shares in face nappy providers?

192427 ▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Will, 1, #569 of 1294 🔗

They should declare this but of course wives, girlfriends, mistresses and catamites do not.

192146 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, #570 of 1294 🔗

Any live stream of the London march?

192181 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #571 of 1294 🔗

There’s one on Youtube under Stand Up X (I believe). i just galnced at it.

192185 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Londo Mollari, #572 of 1294 🔗

Got it, thanks

192150 James, 3, #573 of 1294 🔗
  1. I would like to highly recommend this 45-minute talk called “ The Fact-Free COVID Dystopia ” given by Tom Woods on 9th October. I think it’s very powerful, with all the arguments in one place, and anyone who’s on the fence should be persuaded by this.
  2. Regarding the Great Barrington Declaration (which I have signed), whilst it would be infinitely preferable to the current situation, I think there are some problems with it, which are well explained by Michael Accad, MD , in the following article, called “ The Great Barrington Declaration: A Few Words of Caution ”.
  3. Last but not least, a new book was published on 13th October, condemning the global pandemic response (as far as I know, the first one to do so), called “ The Price Of Panic: How The Tyranny Of Experts Turned A Pandemic Into A Catastrophe ”, written by Professors Jay Richards, William Briggs, and Douglas Axe . It’s available on Amazon .
192160 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 2, #574 of 1294 🔗

What do you make of this prize bunkum from The Telegraph live feed? It seems like the Queen herself will have no say in the matter:

Could the Queen help boost trust in vaccines?

The Queen could be called on to help boost the public’s trust in a coronavirus vaccine, a Government adviser has suggested.

Vaccine misinformation expert Professor Heidi Larson said she feared that people’s concerns about vaccine safety were not being addressed, which could result in them not taking it.

It comes as scientists warned that a working Covid-19 vaccine “might not be enough” to end the pandemic unless governments and technology firms tackle coronavirus misinformation.

In an interview with The Times, Prof Larson, who leads the Vaccine Confidence Project, said the Queen could help build trust in the older generation.

“If there’s one thing I’ve seen, and I’ve been here (in the UK) for over a decade now, it’s the trust that she (the Queen) gets,” she said. “And she’s certainly in that older cohort, so I think that’s actually really, really smart.”

Prof Larson said the “big question” would be whether the Queen, who is aged 94, would get a vaccine.

“I think the palace is going to have to decide for themselves – do you want to risk a new vaccine on the Queen? Or do you want to keep her isolated? They’re going to have to weigh those risks.”

192175 ▶▶ Will, replying to Tenchy, 7, #575 of 1294 🔗

Un fucking believable.

192177 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to Tenchy, 2, #576 of 1294 🔗

We will never, ever get to hear whether she takes it or not.

192189 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Now More Than Ever, 5, #577 of 1294 🔗

She’ll probably get a placebo, staged for the headlines.

192182 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Tenchy, 6, #578 of 1294 🔗

Like her mother, the Queen chooses to rely on homeopathic medicine. The evidence would appear to be she is right to do so.

192184 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Tenchy, 4, #579 of 1294 🔗

Confirmed autoimmune disorderly side effects are not “misinformation”. Nor are they “conspiracy theories” or any other of the usual big pharma shill slurs. Get ready for more of this crap in the months to come as they close in on deploying the snake oil.

192242 ▶▶ Matt The Cat, replying to Tenchy, #580 of 1294 🔗

LOL! made me laugh. Like the vast majority of people in this country, i couldn’t care a rat’s toss if the queen lived or died! The GetAlarph’s supposition that anyone else is concerned either way merely serves to demonstrate their utter isolation when it comes to guaging “public opinion”!

192264 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, #581 of 1294 🔗

Vaccine misinformation expert Professor Heidi Larson said she feared that people’s concerns about vaccine safety were not being addressed, which could result in them not taking it.

192267 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tenchy, 2, #582 of 1294 🔗

So it’s OK to “risk” a new vaccine on the plebs, so long as the Queen is safe.

192309 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tenchy, -1, #583 of 1294 🔗

Does anyone really care about where Brenda sticks what, FFS??

192164 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, #584 of 1294 🔗

Because of cunts like this Hughes, people are now queuing outside supermarkets in South Wales

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54572538

192173 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 2, #585 of 1294 🔗

What a smug arrogant twat

192218 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cecil B, #586 of 1294 🔗

Poor us, we’ve been working so hard …..

192199 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Cecil B, 4, #587 of 1294 🔗

Jesus. So much for democracy. You see they have no intention of turning back. It’s all or nothing now tbe veil is slipping

192214 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cecil B, 1, #588 of 1294 🔗

That’s quite a belated wake-up call!!

192180 Mark, replying to Mark, 17, #589 of 1294 🔗

‘Let’s step forward together’: Jacinda Ardern delivers a rousing speech after landslide victory in New Zealand election and vows to bring Kiwis out of the coronavirus pandemic stronger than ever

  • PM Jacinda Ardern has won a landslide after New Zealand stopped spread of Covid-19 with only 25 deaths
  • Opposition leader Judith Collins has conceded defeat, saying: ‘Boy we knew it was going to be tough’
  • It remains unclear whether the Labour Party will govern alone or involve the Green Party in left-wing deal
  • Voters also cast ballots on the legalisation of euthanasia and cannabis use with results on 30 October

New Zealanders inflict another three years of this obnoxious, globalist, leftist authoritarian on themselves and on the world.

192186 ▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, 9, #590 of 1294 🔗

Most depressing news of the day so far, speaking as someone who couldn’t have named a single New Zealand PM at any point before this year.

192208 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 6, #591 of 1294 🔗

Make no mistake, it will influence politicians around the world, and not in the right direction. It shouldn’t, but it will.

192187 ▶▶ FenTyger, replying to Mark, 6, #592 of 1294 🔗

And she uses “Build back better” as well…………..

192209 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to FenTyger, 8, #593 of 1294 🔗

She’s exactly the type that will be exploiting this to push globalist, climate alarmist and generally leftist policies.

192307 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, -2, #594 of 1294 🔗

Oh, for f.’s sake give over on your political fantasies. This is too serious for playground political infantilism.

192290 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Mark, 4, #595 of 1294 🔗

Well they are certainly going to get what they voted for, good and hard.

192370 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Mark, 4, #596 of 1294 🔗

Absolutely amazed that she was voted in with a landslide. Lost my respect for NZ people. What is wrong with you all?

192193 ConstantBees, replying to ConstantBees, 6, #597 of 1294 🔗

I’ve spent my 60+ years on the left wing of the political spectrum. Now I find myself listening to YT videos from Tom Woods, an American libertarian, speaking at the Mises Institute. Happily, living with the current insanity has sharpened my critical thinking skills, but it seems a bit late in life for a lurch to the right. Still not voting for that Trump guy.

192196 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to ConstantBees, 18, #598 of 1294 🔗

If I were a US citizen I’d grit my teeth and vote for Trump.

192201 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Tenchy, 1, #599 of 1294 🔗

Same, or maybe write-in for Kristy Noem.

192212 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to DRW, 2, #600 of 1294 🔗

She may very well run in 2024

192593 ▶▶▶ TyRade, replying to Tenchy, #601 of 1294 🔗

Gritting teeth may be the best policy anyone anywhere has come up with against COVIDballs!

192198 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to ConstantBees, 11, #602 of 1294 🔗

As with all American elections, if you were determined to vote, it’s a case of least worst. And Trump is miles ahead in that regard. Biden and the Democrats are a disgraceful lot.

There are usually other candidates though you never hear of them. Libertarian Party normally run

192204 ▶▶ Mark, replying to ConstantBees, 6, #603 of 1294 🔗

Those stats about attitudes of Democrat-supporting women are pretty stark:

“Worried about catching coronavirus”: 80%

“Always wear mask in indoor settings when can’t socially distance”: 93%

“Ready to return to normal activities right now”: 3%

192305 ▶▶ RickH, replying to ConstantBees, 2, #604 of 1294 🔗

The issue is that the normal political (left-right) dimension has been usurped by the libertarian-authoritarian dimension in salience.

I think that Orwell had that tension pegged – and he never stopped being a contrarian ‘leftie’ anti-establishment truth-teller.

192459 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to ConstantBees, 3, #605 of 1294 🔗

I’m loving Tom Woods! I’ve voted both parties in Canada and have, at various times in my life, been just to the right and left of centre. This Covid nonsense has put me squarely in the libertarian camp and so people like Tom Woods are very appealing to me now. As an atheist I have no true political home as the right and libertarians do skew socially conservative and I am not. But you’ve got to pick your poison these days and I find myself keeping strange bedfellows! I have to come out on the side of freedom and liberty and probably have to grit my teeth and vote for Trump as well even though I despise the man. I’m glad I don’t have to make the decision.

192194 BeBopRockSteady, 8, #606 of 1294 🔗

Mike Yeardon writing to the Labour MP who resigned yesterday. Like the Global Doctors Alliance, he is on board now with PCR being a criminal enterprise.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1317236300248961025.html?fbclid=IwAR2116d1OrAWpkLXpWlagY96gcZk-o7BkDDOmWK5q0DBlLAt4yQ9iqYoKZU

192197 Cheezilla, 1, #607 of 1294 🔗

Divide and conquer – while blatantly taking the p*ss:

“Do you want to know why they were so desperate to do a deal with us before midnight?” said a furious Foster after the meeting. “To stop all the Scousers from coming over to watch the football on the weekend.”

…. Back on the call, No 10 had landed on a “divide and conquer” strategy: those leaders who agreed to go into tier 3 would get money to prop up shuttered businesses, while those who refused would get none.

“They were trying to play us off against each other,” said Foster. “I wasn’t happy about it,” said Mohammed Iqbal, Pendle’s Labour leader. But he relented because “I can’t have businesses in my patch getting nothing and businesses down the road in Burnley getting support.

…. At 11.26 the Department of Health and Social care (DHSC) released a statement saying that Lancashire was to go into tier 3 at midnight. The small print revealed that the Lancastrians had negotiated something of a boutique deal. There was a specific clause about car boot sales being banned and soft play centres closed. And unlike in Liverpool, Lancashire’s gyms and leisure centres would stay open.

The DHSC press release did not tell the whole story of what Lancashire had negotiated. It said the county would receive a support package worth £12m and that “the government will also establish a dedicated, ministerial-led taskforce with additional funding”.

“The end figure is actually £42m, but they don’t want to broadcast that because they think Manchester and Liverpool and everyone else will be queueing up for it too,” Iqbal said. “The £12m is for track and trace and enforcement and the £30m is for business support.”
The sticking point is how long that money needs to last and what they spend it on. “As far as I’m concerned, it’s for four weeks, but the government is saying we can spend it over six months,” said Foster.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/16/its-all-about-putting-the-blame-on-us-lancashires-reluctant-path-to-tier-3-deal

192200 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #608 of 1294 🔗

https://youtu.be/NJ1m_EpH7A0

London protests live now. It appears to be a different group than previously.

192219 ▶▶ anon, replying to Basics, 1, #609 of 1294 🔗

looks good!

192202 Londo Mollari, replying to Londo Mollari, 2, #610 of 1294 🔗

Livestream of London protest courtesy of “dictator” Putin! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ1m_EpH7A0

192207 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Londo Mollari, #611 of 1294 🔗
192205 Mark, replying to Mark, 8, #612 of 1294 🔗

Gallup: more than half of Republican men and women “ready to return to normal activities right now”.

192701 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Mark, 2, #613 of 1294 🔗

I’m a lifelong Democrat, but slowly getting ready to become a Republican. Can’t bring myself to vote for Trump though. I live in the UK btw.

192206 dhpaul, replying to dhpaul, 1, #614 of 1294 🔗

A couple of questions, apologies if answered elsewhere;

When going for a restaurant meal, I know you don’t need to wear a muzzle seated at the table, but the walking from the door to the table, and going to the toilet there, is wearing a muzzle actually law, or merely guidance?

Secondly, is use of goop (sorry hand sanitiser) on entering any premises actually law or merely guidance?

Thanks

192213 ▶▶ Julian, replying to dhpaul, 4, #615 of 1294 🔗

Muzzle is law apart from at table

Gloop is guidance

192216 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Julian, #616 of 1294 🔗

Actually, as drafted, muzzle is law, including at table.

192215 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to dhpaul, 2, #617 of 1294 🔗

Gloop is guidance I believe. Face coverings. Just note an exemption and it’s law not to be bothered any further.

192217 ▶▶ bucky99, replying to dhpaul, 3, #618 of 1294 🔗

Unbelievably, law. Although it’s not quite framed that way – essentially, you are required to wear a face covering at all times in a pub, restaurant, cafe etc, unless you’re eating or drinking. May be a few other exceptions (and certainly includes exemptions), head over to Law or Fiction to check.

Different rules apply for staff, and actually there are only a couple of circumstances where they actually do have to wear them.

And as others have mentioned, gloop is guidance.

192247 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to bucky99, 1, #619 of 1294 🔗

So if you walk in munching on a bag of pork scratchings?

192253 ▶▶▶▶ bucky99, replying to arfurmo, 2, #620 of 1294 🔗

Perfectly legal!

192477 ▶▶ Mutineer, replying to dhpaul, 3, #621 of 1294 🔗

In my local someone was ‘told off’ for not wearing a mask when they walked 2 steps to the door and yet I saw mask wearers sit down and then throw their masks onto fabric chairs that cannot be sanitised. Clever old virus that know when you’re standing. Lunacy.

192210 Jane, replying to Jane, 32, #622 of 1294 🔗

update from Brussels, just heard bars and restaurants are closing for a month! A curfew is also going to be in place. Total madness, I fear for the young people, Many must be facing a bleak and desperate time. What on earth is happening? My son is early 20s, he can’t see friends, can’t go out to bars etc, no social life and cant find a job. His risk from CV is tiny , his risk from mental health issues and the blight on his future career massive. I just don’t understand it.

192245 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Jane, 9, #623 of 1294 🔗

Hi Jane
I feel so appalled for younger people. I hope they do a second Great Barrington Declaration on exactly this type of thing. “I don’t understand it'” the problem we face is that it’s so wholly different to what we grew up with and what we always assumed we were safe from. Turns out we were not. What we face is a malign agenda. What we do in response is work as efficiently as we can to either/both (1) directly fight work against it, (2) maintain our culture and what we know to be good – and take the time out, take the restorative measures that we need as an individual in order to keep going. My problem is finding some kind of focus for my efforts. I decide what to do in a day and then get distracted from it.

192246 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Jane, 7, #624 of 1294 🔗

But if it saves the life of an obese 80 year old with kidney problems…

192251 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to arfurmo, 12, #625 of 1294 🔗

But it won’t even do that.

Lockdown is a disaster for all of us, including the 80 year old with kidney problems. What, I wonder, has been happening to the 80 year old’s kidney treatment over the last seven months?

192302 ▶▶▶▶ Telpin, replying to Ovis, 7, #626 of 1294 🔗

Entirely agree – I have to go for weekly blood tests at a major London hospital. ALL outpatient clinics were completely closed between March and late August – 5 months. The whole outpatient floor was empty and I was either the only one or one of 2 patients having a blood test. May of those clinics were for chronic conditions- cardiology, rheumatology, anti coagulation, renal. A disgrace.

192452 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Jane, 8, #627 of 1294 🔗

In the natural order of things, parents sacrifice for their children. Somehow with this Covid nonsense society has demanded that the younger generations sacrifice for the older generations. I’m middle-aged and have, from the outset, been willing to take the risk and keep living life as normal so that my children can enjoy the same rights and freedoms I have enjoyed my entire life. I have heard, anecdotally and even on this forum, that many older people are begging not only to be allowed to live their lives, but also demanding that the futures of the young not be sacrificed on their behalf. It’s topsy-turvy madness.

192224 Leemc23, replying to Leemc23, 5, #628 of 1294 🔗

The Spectator giving lead article to a pro lockdown doctor called Simon Clarke. Not helpful at all. Basically says “humanity is fooked” and Covid is dangerous. Blah blah blah.

192228 ▶▶ Jenny, replying to Leemc23, 5, #629 of 1294 🔗

At least they are giving him a voice. Obviously he is speaking out of the wrong orifice but, frankly, good on the Spectator for showing balanced journalism. I think it makes them more credible. If only MSM would give the sceptical side a hearing.

192254 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jenny, 3, #630 of 1294 🔗

Balanced? It’s not exactly as if the rest of the Spectator is anti-mockdown!

192278 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #631 of 1294 🔗

Seems to me it’s been one of the most sceptical-friendly of all the mainstream publications.

192412 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark, 3, #632 of 1294 🔗

Even the most sceptical articles talk about the pandemic and cases.
True lockdown-friendliness will eschew all of that and refer to lockdown and postive tests instead!

192344 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Leemc23, 1, #633 of 1294 🔗

Spectator no longer on my shopping list

192621 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Victoria, #634 of 1294 🔗

Did you comment on a fb speccie post earlier?

192225 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 35, #635 of 1294 🔗

Got a letter this morning rom the local Council basically threatening su to be good and do as we are told or else so fired this off:

To: Simon Tagg, Leader of Newcastle-Under-Lyme Borough Council

CC: Geoff Durham, The Mayor’s secretary
Dr Johnny McMahon, Staffordshire County Council’s member for Health, Care and Wellbeing

Sir,

I wish to thank you on behalf of the Government for your letter received this morning, 17th October 2020 reference “Urgent Covid-19 Update”.

It is a masterly piece of writing to continue the on-going campaign of fear-mongering and psychological propaganda against the population and that contains thinly veiled threats of “do as you are told or else we will punish you, for your own good of course”

In the letter you deliberately confuse a positive test with an actual person suffering from Covid-19.

This is blatantly wrong.

I received a FOI request answer from the Department of Health and Social Care Reference FOI-1240596 and it stated that a positive PCR test means nothing medically.

The actual quote: “SARS-CoV-2 RNA means the RNA is present in that sample at that point in time. It does not mean that the patient has the novel coronavirus (COVID-19).”

The full FOI request and answer is available if you wish it.

It also linked to a document that in conclusion stated that the PCR tests being used are unreliable, had high false positive rates, could not be verified against an actual confirmed case of covid-19 and had not been verified in a medical or hospital setting.

The full FOI answer is available from myself if you require it.

PCR tests are also, as admitted by their inventors, not a diagnostic tool nor a quantitive test and should not be used as such in any circumstances.

So with this in mind I sent FOI requests to both Newcastle-Under-Lyme Borough Council and Staffordshire County Council amongst others asking:

1 – based on the above statements how can a positive PCR tests be termed as a “case” medically?

2 – based on the above statements how can positive PCR tests be used as a justification for local lockdowns and other general restrictions?

3 – based on the above statements how can positive PCR tests be used as a justification for enforced self-isolation of individuals tested “positive”?

4 – based on the above statements how can positive PCR tests be used as a justification for enforced self-isolation of those who have been in “close contact” with an individual who tested “positive”?

5 – based on the above statements how can positive PCR tests be used as a justification for closing down or fining a business when customers have been tested “positive”?

6 – please supply the official document(s) and guidance (not the legislation but the supporting documentation) that DHSC has supplied to local Councils that justify local lockdowns, business closures and isolation of segments of the population based on an unreliable test that does not mean the person is infected with anything, that has high false positive rates and no independent verification the results are correct?

7 – please supply the official document(s) and guidance that DHSC has supplied to local Councilsthat allow the PCR tests to be used as a diagnostic tool/test that is outwith it’s intended use by it’s inventors.

I received back the following answers which to the credit of both authorities was within 2 days and was honest and truthful. These answers were:

In response to your request for information, I write to advise you that Newcastle Borough Council does not hold the requested information and as such you will need to re-direct your enquiry to Staffordshire County Council

And from Staffordshire County Council:

Regarding Questions 1 – 5

I am advised by the relevant council team that we do not hold information and that you should contact the Department of Health and Social Care again, or Public Health England.

Regarding Questions 6 and 7

The relevant council team have advised that no such documents have been received or held by the council.

So neither local authority has any evidence, either from their own research or supplied by central Government to justify calling a “positive” test a “case” in medical terms and no justification for any measures they take to enforce any legislation they have powers to use other than “we were just following orders”.

The way the PCR tests are being performed for the Government is also highly controversial and seems to be, yet again, deliberately done in a way that maximises the “positives” regardless of how accurate they are thus inflating the numbers of false positives to artificial highs.

192226 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 32, #636 of 1294 🔗

Part 2:

My own research shows that the recommended number of cycles to run for the test is 30-35. The Government is running the tests at 45 cycles (confirmed from the test manufacturer’s own website and from Government guidelines on their own website) and this will, to quote a researcher “get a positive test from a banana”.

So we have the situation where a test that is inaccurate, cannot be double checked against a “gold standard” comparison, is unreliable, is not a diagnostic tool and cannot diagnose if someone is suffering from the virus or not is being run to create high numbers of false positives that are then being reported as cases which are then used to justify restrictions and legislation that have no or very little evidence that is mostly circumstantial to show that they will work.

Now you understand why I called your letter “fear-mongering and psychological propaganda “ at the beginning.

I am also glad you mention the Ryecroft Car Park testing centre in your letter. I have a question about this – I have driven past it many times in the past few weeks and rarely see anyone outside it waiting to be tested. Normally there are only staff and security guards wandering around bored.

Today it was exceptionally busy, there were a grand total of 2 people there.

So where are all these tests being carried out and where are all positive tests coming from apart from the compulsory test on entering a hospital regardless of what you are admitted for and the students at Keele University?

As the positive test for someone admitted to hospital is deliberately being misused to inflate the numbers of Covid-19 patients being admitted and treated in hospitals by reporting them in the MSM as “all these cases are admitted to hospital with Covid-19” rather than being reported as 2 separate groups – one listed as “admitted for something else, no symptoms but tested positive” and “ admitted with symptoms, tested positive” which are 2 completely different things this is again, just another ploy to deliberately ramp up the fear and boost the numbers to “scary” levels.

I will assume that Dr Johnny McMahon’s doctorate is in physical medicine and he will be able to corroborate all the facts I have included in this e-mail as a medical professional rather than you just take my word for it.

And if you do decide to answer me, please do not insult my intelligence by using the phrase “just following guidance” or some such nonsense but include facts and scientific data that actually supports your position of continuing to work with the Government to maintain the fear levels in the non-thinking, non-questioning segment of the population and assist them in destroying the economy and social cohesion of this country.

I will also assume that Dr Johnny McMahon is a member of the BMA.

I have been in correspondence with them about their stance on mask wearing for the population in general and in their truthful and honest answer to me they say:

We appreciate that this is an area in which there is little high-quality empirical evidence. There is, for example, a lack of randomised control trials showing that mask wearing is effective (either indoors or outdoors).

Basically they have no scientific evidence to support their stance other than “do it because we tell you to”.

Full e-mail correspondence is available on this if he would like to read what the BMA are saying on behalf of all their members – total, unmitigated, unsubstantiated twaddle is the only way to describe it.

This goes for central Government as well – reference the DELVE statistical analysis study that quotes “masked hamsters” as the main study Government are using to justify the policy but when studied in depth does no such thing.

Full e-mail correspondence available on all others points raised as well.

192238 ▶▶▶ Templeton, replying to Awkward Git, 17, #637 of 1294 🔗

You are trooper of the highest order AG. The “test” is the base that this whole house of cards sits upon

192285 ▶▶▶▶ Telpin, replying to Templeton, 9, #638 of 1294 🔗

You are a true warrior and relentless- as has been said by others- so glad to have you on our side! 🥇

192250 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #639 of 1294 🔗

Absolutely brilliant AG. Glad you’re on our side!

Maybe next time, while pointing out the lack of medical evidence to support any beneficial effects of wearing face nappies, note that there’s plenty of psychological proof that they’re harmful!

192293 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #640 of 1294 🔗

Well done in terms of asking the pertinent questions.

Bur as another Old Git, it makes me despair. Because we know what the answers will be, and we know that its all ‘carrot up the bum’ stuff. And we know that anyone with a basic grasp of the issues knows precisely the same.

… and it makes bugger all difference to the maintenance of the fantasy and the succession of bum carrots.

192385 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to RickH, 4, #641 of 1294 🔗

But at least we’ve annoyed “them” in some small way.

192382 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 9, #642 of 1294 🔗

Each day that passes I’m getting more and more pissed off with the idiocy, lies and bullshit and getting really belligerent.

Keeps me busy and out of the way until I go back to work.

192491 ▶▶▶ John Dawson, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #643 of 1294 🔗

Hi AG and thank you for your research. Can you post a link or two to the definite use of 45 as the multiplying (power) factor in the UK PCR tests please (maybe including the test manufacturers)?

I did try to research this a couple of weeks ago when the Spectator ran a relevant article but failed to find any corroboration. I’d like to revisit the topic.

192503 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to John Dawson, 1, #644 of 1294 🔗

It was a few days ago, certainly within the past week – I posted on here a link to the PHE PCR test evaluation analysis paperwork stuff then picked one at random, checked the manufacturer’s website and then went onto the test instructions where it states 45 cycles which I posted date next day.

I also put some links to other PCR test manufacturers and researchers that recommended 30-35 cycles along with a beginners guide to PCR testing video that was very helpful.

192586 ▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #645 of 1294 🔗

If I had my way you’d be Sir Awkward. I am so glad you are on our side! You are an inspiration, when I see your efforts it inspires me to do more & try harder. Thank you & keep up the good fight. Cheers, Arnie.

192229 ▶▶ l835, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #646 of 1294 🔗

Brilliant work!

193129 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Awkward Git, #647 of 1294 🔗

This is remarkable work on your part. You’ve prised admissions that should be hitting headlines. But of course it won’t. Well done!

I think you should re-post this again when the next page comes up. Or on Monday morn when people are more attentive – ’tis Sunday, or at least it is for me as I’m tapping.

192233 Mark, replying to Mark, 2, #648 of 1294 🔗

Covid deaths could rise to 690 per day in next two weeks as infections soar 50 per cent in a week, Cambridge model claims

  • The Medical Research Council presented Sage with the bleak forecast
  • They estimate that 47,000 people in England are contracting Covid-19 ever day
  • Ssubstantial proportion’ are asymptomatic, but warn of hundreds of deaths

OK, so this is just another model so the usual gigo assumption should be applied to their conclusions.

But how do these people rationalise the clear inconsistency between their assertion that: “the estimated growth rate for England is 0.09 per day, meaning ‘the number of infections grows by 9 per cent each day and it translates into a doubling in number in under one week'” with the broadly flat results of testing. The only way I can see that those could both be true would be if there had been a huge drop in testing numbers.

192244 ▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, 3, #649 of 1294 🔗

Doubling down, doubling down…

I think this could turn out to be a good thing. When these thousands of deaths don’t happen, there’s an excuse to discard SAGE and look to others for advice.

192248 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to matt, 6, #650 of 1294 🔗

They will just say the diktats prevented them and they “saved lives”.

192249 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to DRW, 1, #651 of 1294 🔗

Maybe. But remember that van Tam has told us that many of these deaths were already “baked in”.

192257 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to matt, 2, #652 of 1294 🔗

That will be memory-holed, as with many past inconvenient statements.

192317 ▶▶▶▶ NappyFace, replying to DRW, 3, #653 of 1294 🔗

It’s thanks to the March lockdown that 500,000 people were saved from death. And remember, no one is safe from Covid.

192347 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to DRW, 1, #654 of 1294 🔗

They already said that for the original data. That the natural curve was somehow unnatural.

192282 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to matt, 1, #655 of 1294 🔗

Good luck with that. All I see is an incredible desire to eat shit.

192335 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to matt, 3, #656 of 1294 🔗

There’s one man who could pull that volte face off: Boris.

I can hear him now “When the facts change…the British people deserve the best advisors…erred on the side of caution, now we must err on the side of revival and recovery… SAGE began to think it was spelt SAFE – there is no safety in inaction …no great pleasure to say the boffins let us down…the second wave resembled more a puddle you step over than a tsunami…carpe diem…in the words of that truly sage advisor, Winston Churchill…”

He could do it if he wanted!

192339 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to OKUK, #657 of 1294 🔗

Would that be a good idea – a narcissistic buffoon with a talent only for lying as an advocate for the truth?

192402 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RickH, #658 of 1294 🔗

Then he’d be brilliant for lying his way back out again.

192399 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to OKUK, #659 of 1294 🔗

Unfortunately, “if” is the biggest word in any language.

192262 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Mark, 4, #660 of 1294 🔗

Real world cases aren’t rising as predicted… wheel out another model.

192277 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, #661 of 1294 🔗

How the hell a fiction such as ‘cases’ (of real infection) = PCR+ results can be maintained in any genuine scientific analysis is beyond me. It’s at the level of not being able to do simple addition.

192404 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RickH, #662 of 1294 🔗

I think the scientific explanation is “bullshit propaganda”.

192287 ▶▶ Will, replying to Mark, 2, #663 of 1294 🔗

Which there hasn’t. Testing numbers keep on increasing. The ONS admission that they can’t get people to do their survey means their numbers are based on models as well. The zealots desperately need this lock down, and soon, or numbers are going to keep falling, people are going to ask how can this be happening without a lockdown and those same people are going to start adding 2 + 2 and actually getting 4…

192303 ▶▶ Mayo, replying to Mark, 1, #664 of 1294 🔗

Using specimen date on government figures, I reckon it’s about 3% a day at the moment. This is similar to the Covid symptom study data and in the same ball park as the ONS survey estimates.

However, it wasn’t far off 9% a week or so back. 47k new infections a day might be a bit high but it’s almost certainly above 30k – and might be quite a bit higher.

192407 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mayo, 1, #665 of 1294 🔗

Surely you mean 47k positive test results?

192507 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Mayo, 2, #666 of 1294 🔗

What definition of ‘infection’ are you using?

Which PCR tests have been used?

What PCR test cycle thresholds were applied?

Unless you can answer those questions, your numbers are meaningless.

192540 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Mark, #667 of 1294 🔗

I’m puzzled. Growth of 9% a day means doubling in just over 8 days, not “under one week”. Doubling in a week is 10% growth a day. In fact, the detailed table gives 7.94 days.

However, in the interests of fairness, please note the unit says

We predict that the number of deaths each day is likely to be between 240 and 690 on the 26th October

As always, when a media report says “up to” or “could be as high as”, look for the corresponding “down to”/”could be as low as”.

People here may also wish to chew on

The definition of deaths has been adapted to include all deaths that occur in individuals who have had lab-confirmed infection within 60 days from the date of their most recent positive test. This definition reflects more realistically the burden of COVID-19.

192234 Paul, replying to Paul, 26, #668 of 1294 🔗

I take our dog for a long walk in the countryside every day to escape the madness for a couple of hours but today I met a woman,on her own,muzzled up,out in the bracing fresh October air,miles out in the country,bloody hell I can’t escape from the zombies anywhere but at home now !.

192311 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Paul, #669 of 1294 🔗

Same in rural Shropshire.

192316 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Paul, 4, #670 of 1294 🔗

I’ve not seen any in the countryside (long walk in NW Derbyshire on Thursday), but there are a lot more masked outside in the towns, even when not around shops. I think it’s due to the general ramping up of fear by the authorities and media.

192421 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Paul, 7, #671 of 1294 🔗

Which just goes to prove that these maskholes are not wearing a mask to protect you. They are “selfishly” wearing a mask because they think it will protect them. And the moronic CDC head, Dr. Redfield, is on the record claiming that his mask will ultimately be more protective than a vaccine. He didn’t talk about his mask protecting others, he specifically referred to it as protecting him. There’s no way all these zombies are that concerned about other people — flies in the face of human nature — they think they’re keeping themselves safe.

192255 BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 8, #672 of 1294 🔗

Posted yesterday. Worth resharing.

We are seeing a 97% collapse in flu rates globally.

https://mobile.twitter.com/kylamb8/status/1317186379483406337

192263 ▶▶ leggy, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #673 of 1294 🔗

2 + 2 = ?

192268 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 5, #674 of 1294 🔗

So are flu cases being misdiagnosed as Covid?

192272 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Telpin, 7, #675 of 1294 🔗

Or manipulated as ‘Covid’?

192276 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Telpin, 1, #676 of 1294 🔗

This is the article linked in the feed. Worth a read. Argues that covid pushes out flu, effectively
https://www.theblaze.com/amp/horowitz-flu-season-coronavirus-2648227802?__twitter_impression=true

192391 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #677 of 1294 🔗

So, forget your flu jab. Get covid!

192284 ▶▶▶ Jo, replying to Telpin, 1, #678 of 1294 🔗

Possibly some. But I think it was on one of Ivor C’s videos that in some new viruses “nudge out” the flu. But can’t remember exactly because I’ve read and viewed so much stuff.

192533 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Telpin, #679 of 1294 🔗

I think that’s a strong contender given the loose way covid has been counted.

192269 ▶▶ RickH, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #680 of 1294 🔗

Very bothersome (in terms of explanation).

Sniff, sniff … rotting fish?

192312 ▶▶ bucky99, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #681 of 1294 🔗

So you can’t die twice, eh?

192387 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #682 of 1294 🔗

Does that mean mockdown measures work?

192548 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Cheezilla, #683 of 1294 🔗

For the flu. Who’d have known,allbthese years, millions dead and all we had to do was lockdown forever. Anyone who says this is because of lockdown measures should be asked ‘If that is true, then what’s the plan for next year? Given we already have a vaccine, and it didn’t save us from epidemics? If not lockdown forever then what? What about every life matters?’

They can’t defend it. More mental gymnastics required. It also means decades of flu scientific research was looking in the wrong place. Strange.

192559 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #684 of 1294 🔗

Also, Japan. Masks as a cultural norm. Flu numbers drop well before first mitigations which also take time to see an effect due to lags

192690 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #685 of 1294 🔗

Last year’s flu vaccine must have been a “super vaccine”.

192259 Mayo, replying to Mayo, 3, #686 of 1294 🔗

Oh brilliant.

On the same day that Hector Drummond writes a blog in which he criticises New Zealand’s Zero Covid policy, Jacinda Ardern, the champion of that policy secures what appears to be a landslide victory in the NZ elections.

Meanwhile, on the other side of the world Trump, who announces plans to embrace the Barrington Declaration, is facing the prospect of a massive defeat to a candidate who has trouble remembering his own name.

It’s not exactly going well is it?

192266 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Mayo, 9, #687 of 1294 🔗

What – proper scientific analysis – or the course of public awareness?

Certainly, the ‘carrot up the bum’ approach to public health seems to win over the gullible.

Two Mencken quotations :

“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

“Democracy is also a form of worship. It is the worship of Jackals by Jackasses.”

192300 ▶▶ Will, replying to Mayo, 5, #688 of 1294 🔗

Even by your usual standards, Mayo, that is tenuous… it is no great surprise Ahern won the NZ election, the question is where the country could be in three years time if a vaccine fails to arrive. Would you care to pass comment on the CEBM graph and where it stands in relation to Whitty and Vallance’s sketch. Rising test numbers and falling positive tests…

192411 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Will, #689 of 1294 🔗

it is no great surprise Ahern won the NZ election,

If the electorate hadn’t support the Zero Covid policy she’d have lost.

the question is where the country could be in three years time if a vaccine fails to arrive.

3 years?? So not exactly an urgent problem.

Would you care to pass comment on the CEBM graph and where it stands in relation to Whitty and Vallance’s sketch.

The Vallance ‘prediction’ was stupid.

Rising test numbers and falling positive tests…

They are not falling – not yet at least.

192310 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mayo, 4, #690 of 1294 🔗

Ah yes…Mayo. Are you here to tell us again what a work of prophecy were those Ferguson predictions and projections, or do you feel a bit of politics is a better way of undermining scepticism? Word to the wise: New Zealand is a tiny country. Its election result is of no significance especially since its Covid policy is based on unsustainable total self isolation.

192394 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to OKUK, -2, #691 of 1294 🔗

Ferguson’s prediction are looking pretty good at the moment. He predicted 500k deaths if no mitigating action were taken. He predicted around 40k if a number of restrictions, i.e. a lockdown, were enforced. He also predicted a second wave in October.

New Zealand is a tiny country. Its election result is of no significance especially

It shows the public support the zero covid policy.

since its Covid policy is based on unsustainable total self isolation.

Did you run a model to reach this conclusion or just parrot the opinion of a random blogger. NZ will do just fine.

192416 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mayo, 2, #692 of 1294 🔗

My suspicion is that his actual prediction was 40-50k deaths, full stop, but that he multiplied it by 12.5 to get an exciting number to get him exposure in the media and to persuade the government to go for full scale lockdown because he was curious to see what would happen when you actively tried to destroy a country.

192422 ▶▶▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to matt, 1, #693 of 1294 🔗

Yeah, what does ” do nothing ” even mean? When there’s a bug going around, a lot of people generally do something ie stay at home when sick, wash their hands, try and avoid people coughing.

I could do sums on the back of a fag packet, say for drinking. Let’s say every adult in the country starts binge drinking constantly ( probably not far off at the moment! ) and in a years time will have 500k dead.

192426 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Mayo, 1, #694 of 1294 🔗

Except his curves didn’t predict the shape. Even if you move the scale back to match the observed peak with no interventions, with interventions the peak would have been April and May. Additionally the “second wave” is actually peaking now.

When applied to Sweden there are also problems.

The main issue with Ferguson’s model however is that the IFR appears to high. Lower that and then values start to match. The shape doesn’t though. He has no Gompertz curve.

192480 ▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Mayo, #695 of 1294 🔗

Do you have any idea how many deaths there have actually been from covid 19 in this country, really? Does anyone?

Are you aware, for example, that the average age of mortality in the covid 19 mortality numbers for this country is almost exactly the same as life expectancy?

‘Coronavirus (COVID-19) deaths are those deaths registered in England and Wales in the stated week where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate. A doctor can certify the involvement of COVID-19 based on symptoms and clinical findings – a positive test result is not required.’

‘Our definition of COVID-19 includes some cases where the certifying doctor suspected the death involved COVID-19 but was not certain, for example, because no test was done.’

ONS

192508 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mayo, 1, #696 of 1294 🔗

He double underlined the 500,000. He highlighted it in yellow marker ink. He spoke about it time and time again. The fact that, like criminal, he also covered his tracks with a low range estimate (actually quite realistic) is irrelevant to his touting of the 500000 figure not just here but in the USA as well. And then he has the gall to break his own lockdown rules! – though he was never punished for that.

192570 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Mayo, 1, #697 of 1294 🔗

The public would support a lot of things if given the choice including birching homosexuals and the death penalty.

192343 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Mayo, 5, #698 of 1294 🔗

Trump was heading for a massive defeat last time, according to polls. Not saying he can’t lose but you can’t write him off either.
https://thefederalist.com/2020/10/14/contra-media-poll-narrative-trump-tracking-just-fine-in-electoral-college/

192425 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to DRW, #699 of 1294 🔗

Not quite true. The polls had Clinton ahead but the gap was narrowing. Clinton actually did win the popular vote but Trump played the electoral college system better.

The problem for Trump is that he won a lot of states by narrow margins in 2016. It only takes a small swing in those states to complete transform the political map.

Also Pollsters have corrected for their raw survey adjustments. Note UK pollsters got the UK election pretty much spot on – unlike 2015 & 2017.

193007 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mayo, #700 of 1294 🔗

What an amazing coincidence: in 2016, the polls all showed the margin narrowing as the election date got closer. Same thing will happen this time round proving the polls are being used for political manipulation during the campaign…it’s just they have to produce something more realistic as election day approaches, so they have to stop publishing nonsense about 14 point Biden leads.

192393 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Mayo, 1, #701 of 1294 🔗

Only in the MSM.

This is an independent view of what is happening.

https://future.fandom.com/wiki/2020_U.S_presidential_election_(Porvenir)

Then read some of this:

http://82.221.129.208/.vc3.html

192430 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Awkward Git, #702 of 1294 🔗

Not sure what I ‘m supposed to be reading. Your first link gives a prediction of a huge landslide for Biden.

The second link is…. well …. nothing really.

192446 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Mayo, 3, #703 of 1294 🔗

It states: “Blue states to be won by Biden” and the map is clouded red so what is hard to misunderstand.

All independent polls, surveys etc show Trump well ahead.

Biden did not have double figures at his last rally.

Only in the MSM and google/facebook dream world is Biden in front.

192450 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Mayo, 4, #704 of 1294 🔗

Mayo – I think you should give up on this site, you’re not making any progress bringing us round to your views on anything.

Try the BBC or something.

192568 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Mayo, 1, #705 of 1294 🔗

New Zealand just voted for collective suicide. If that is what you describe as “brilliant”…..

192261 stefarm, 2, #706 of 1294 🔗

Earlier, South African Jbe Kruger was withdrawn by the European Tour from this week’s Scottish golf Championship after testing positive for the virus.

Kruger, who is asymptomatic , was tested upon his arrival at Fairmont St Andrews on Monday as part of the pre-tournament screening process and will now remain in self-isolation for a minimum of 10 days in accordance with mandatory Public Health Scotland and NHS Fife guidelines.

No other contacts were identified as part of the track and trace process other than Kruger’s wife – and caddie – Denise, who will also be managed in accordance with Public Health guidelines.

192271 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 14, #707 of 1294 🔗

According to the Swiss Doctor, the treatments with the best current evidence base are: for prophylaxis and early treatment – Zinc, Quercetin, Bromhexine, Vitamins C & D, and Aspirin (early treatment only); for ancillary treatment – Hydroxychloroquine, High-dose vitamin D, Azithromycin and LMW heparin.

Strangely enough Professor Delores Cahill had been recommending most of these supplements from the beginning of this Plandemic. But Big Pharma in their quest for ever bigger profits aren’t interested in saving lives but in making money.

192288 ▶▶ 2 pence, replying to Bella Donna, 8, #708 of 1294 🔗

Also Dr Zelenko.
Dr. Zelenko’s outpatient treatment regimen consists of hydroxychloroquine, 200mg twice a day for five days; azithromycin, 500mg once a day for five days; and zinc sulfate, 220mg once a day for five days. “We know that hydroxychloroquine helps Zinc enter the cell,” wrote Dr. Zelenko. “We know that Zinc slows viral replication within the cell. Regarding the use of azithromycin, I postulate it prevents secondary bacterial infections. These three drugs are well known and usually well-tolerated; hence the risk to the patient is low.”
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/287850

192329 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Bella Donna, 6, #709 of 1294 🔗

I have my suspicions of magical one-size-fits-all magical ‘cures’.

But, in general, basic prophylaxis is a far more sensible route than unnecessary vaccines.

192499 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to RickH, 1, #710 of 1294 🔗

Exactly! Especially vaccines that are being rushed through without proper vetting.

192359 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #711 of 1294 🔗

Great post. So true

192882 ▶▶ djaustin, replying to Bella Donna, -1, #712 of 1294 🔗

Sadly the “best evidence base” is in vitro cell culture experiments of viral replication. Whist these are a start, they are no substitute of proper clinical trials. Unfortunately HCQ has failed in over 20 such trial now including both SOLIDARITY and RECOVERY. Heparin may have some role in hospitalised COVID patients. This may come as a shock, but inverstors in Gilead thought remdesivir was actually priced too low.

192281 Edward, replying to Edward, 8, #713 of 1294 🔗

Fourth Industrial Revolution. It occurs to me that the terminology illustrates a typically 21st century arrogance and narrow viewpoint. The first industrial revolution was essentially the advent of steam power around the mid 18th century. The second was electrical power and mass production, late 19th/early 20th. The third was automation, electronics, miniaturisation, post WW2. The fourth is supposedly the internet, artificial intelligence, everything being linked up.

In reality most of these changes happened continuously over a long period, though some specific changes did happen quickly. For example it didn’t take long for typewriters to be replaced by word processors, first on dedicated machines and then as computer software.

The notion of software release numbers 1.0, 2.0 etc. has come into other fields as a journalistic way of dramatising things. Did anybody name the first three industrial revolutions as such before the idea of the fourth became current?

What has this got to do with our current predicament? Maybe not a lot, but it’s useful to know where ideas come from to help in constructing arguments for or against them.

192292 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Edward, 4, #714 of 1294 🔗

You are right. A vaguely natural organic process of ‘progress’ previously and now it is delivered on a whim by an underground group who have plotted in the shadows to prepare for their launch date. Control would be my first suggestion why this has come about, others may have better ideas.

192297 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to Basics, 4, #715 of 1294 🔗

Yeah I agree.. which is why this great reset will fail. It isn’t organic. It’s a wrench in the spokes.

192304 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to chaos, 6, #716 of 1294 🔗

As Klaus Schwab grunted in his pig English they have cut so deep that the changes will be lasting (see that on video). But that does not mean their plan will come off. It will have violently shifted life around the globe. An aggression against peaceful people everywhere.

192726 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Basics, 1, #717 of 1294 🔗

Didn’t he say we had made cuts so deep that we won’t be able to cover our tracks?

192327 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Basics, 4, #718 of 1294 🔗

Yes. Exactly.The imposition of an eccentric ideology from a narrow capitalist class isn’t a new ‘industrial revolution’.

192333 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RickH, 5, #719 of 1294 🔗

Imposition is the key word. The other industrial revolutions were also natural evolutions. There’s nothing natural about what’s being orchestrated at the moment.

192298 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Edward, 3, #720 of 1294 🔗

Of course the phrase “industrial revolution” has been around for a very long time but I think the notion of nos. 1,2,3,4… is fairly recent and is being used to push a particular agenda, not necessarily of benefit to most of us.

192308 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Edward, 1, #721 of 1294 🔗

On a different but not entirely unrelated topic, I’m currently taking an interest in the history of land enclosure which was a process of change occurring over centuries. On the positive side it can be seen as a move away from subsistence farming leading to the prospect of better lives for many, but there were many negatives as well.

192313 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Edward, 2, #722 of 1294 🔗

Have a look at allemansraetten from err yeah it is Sweden to see how an alternative relatiinship to land may have been possible at one time. Before the enclosures act.

192321 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Edward, 2, #723 of 1294 🔗

The ‘progress’ meme is a history written by the main beneficiaries – the accumulators of capital.

As ‘vaccines’ – with their relatively minor impact – are written up as a salvation in health terms. Genuine public health improvements had far greater impact.

So … the impoverishment and servitude of millions is written up as ‘progress’ under enclosure

192361 ▶▶▶ helen, replying to Edward, #724 of 1294 🔗

I believe the topic of ‘the commons’ and especially another ‘Tragedy’ in the making may well be related
Policy paper
The government’s response to the Natural Capital Committee’s State of Natural Capital Report 2020Published 12 June 2020

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/natural-capital-committees-seventh-annual-report-government-response/the-governments-response-to-the-natural-capital-committees-state-of-natural-capital-report-2020
2.3 Environmental Net Gain
In the 25 YEP, the government committed to embedding the principle of ‘net environmental gain’ for development. Our first step was to formally consult on mandating a biodiversity net gain (BNG) requirement in the planning system, which is now being taken forward through the Environment Bill (2020). The approach to BNG includes strict adherence to a mitigation hierarchy and use of an updated biodiversity metric. The government believes that further work and engagement with industry and conservation bodies is required before establishing approaches to BNG for both marine and nationally significant infrastructure projects, which can have fundamentally different characteristics to other development types. Government will continue to work on exploring potential net gain approaches for these types of development.
The 25 YEP also committed us to expand net gain approaches to include wider natural capital benefits. We remain committed to delivering a wider environmental net gain (ENG) policy for development, building on the BNG requirements and drawing on NCC’s helpful response to our commission to provide further ENG advice. We agree with the NCC’s recommendations that offsite remediation for development impacts should be funded by developers and prioritised close to development sites.
Work on potential ENG metrics is also progressing. The emerging Eco-metric tool will enable comparison of the impacts of different development options on the supply of ecosystem services. This represents a first step towards enabling better consideration of the losses and gains in ecosystem services from development, to help deliver wider benefits for people and nature.
While it is too soon to legislate for ENG, it is important to recognise that mandatory BNG will often deliver wider environmental benefits (e.g. recreation opportunities, flood risk reduction, improved water and air quality) by contributing to the creation and enhancement natural capital assets.

192368 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Edward, 2, #725 of 1294 🔗

Enclosure is what ultimately concentrated the poor into industrial towns.

It’s hard when folks can’t find the work where they’ve been bred and born.
When I was young I allus thowt as I’d bide wit ruits and t’corn
But I’ve been forced to work in towns, so here’s my litany
From Hull and Halifax and Hell
Good Lord deliver me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BD2_WP2sec

192341 ▶▶ matt, replying to Edward, 9, #726 of 1294 🔗

Not addressing anybody’s specific plans for what a “fourth” industrial revolution might look like, but…

We do have a problem (or at least, we have a problem if you believe in the principle that productivity growth is an important factor in improving general wealth/quality of life). That problem is that all of the gains from the first and second industrial revolutions (as they’ve become known, probably arrogantly, as you say) have been taken. Industrialisation ran out of road some time ago, electricity similarly, electronics provided less of a leap forward than might have been expected and so digitisation has had hardly any impact at all – at least so far. My personal observation is that most of it is actually smoke and mirrors – yes it makes basic admin tasks faster, but it tends to push those tasks onto the to do lists of more expensive people who would be better used doing something else. The GDP growth rates we’ve seen since the financial crisis have been very low by post-industrial standards and show no sign of accelerating.

Automation and AI may well help, but they also create their own problems. Do we have the skills in the workforce to actually increase the number of people doing the jobs that can’t be automated or done by artificial intelligence? The current answer is probably no. In which case, at least short term, you’re not expecting to increase economic productivity per head of population, you’re expecting to increase economic productivity for each of a reduced number of employed people. This means in theory that the net benefit is an increase in leisure time, hand in hand with an overall increase in wealth. The problem then becomes distributing that wealth so that people who aren’t employed can enjoy their leisure time, rather than spending it in penury, without creating resentment among the people who are actually working. Universal Basic Income is touted as an answer to this and I don’t think it’s an unalloyed evil, but it’s very problematic and I suspect is politically impossible to put into place “properly”. I’m also generally opposed because I tend to think that a bigger state is a bad idea.

On balance, I think the arrogance is in assuming that what we currently know gives an answer to the question we currently have to answer

192396 ▶▶▶ helen, replying to matt, 1, #727 of 1294 🔗

By means of multinational corporations turning their emissions (externalities) from previous industrial activity into their new resource the road has been extended…

Why Most Published Research Findings Are False. John P. A. IoannidisPublished: August 30, 2005. https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pmed.0020124

The majority of climate scientists are just like the majority of immunologists

192717 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to helen, #728 of 1294 🔗

They for a “consensus”.

192619 ▶▶▶ fran, replying to matt, 1, #729 of 1294 🔗

Schwab published a book back in 2018 “The Fourth Industrial Revolution”. I haven’t read it myself but a quote from it on a recent video on utube says that he suggested that governments implement these (necessary?? urgent??) changes could be ‘helped’ if there was some sort of world emergency … such as a pandemic.

Now just in July this year he has published this book “Covid-19 The Great Reset”. Three months ago!! Wow …. never let a crisis go to waste eh! From the same video on utube here is a quote from the book …

‘In one form or another social and physical distancing measures are likely to persist after the pandemic itself subsides, justifying the decision in many companies, from different industries to accelerate automation. After a while, the enduring concerns about technological unemployment will recede as the societies emphasise the need to restructure the workplace in a way that minimises close human contact. Indeed, automation technologies are particularly well suited to a world in which human beings can’t get too close to each other or are willing to reduce their interactions. Our lingering and possibly lasting fear of being infected with a virus (covid-19 or another) will thus speed the relentless march of automation, particluarly in the fields most suscepible to automation’.

Notice the lines …. “…. restructure the workplace in a way that minimises close human contact.” and ” … automation technologies are particularly well suited to a world in which human beings can’t get too close to each other or are willing to reduce their interactions.”

the video is (still available at the moment) on utube here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O31AfWoBfaI
(it is nearly 50 mins long but I found it very well put together)

192649 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to fran, #730 of 1294 🔗

Great post – and excellent link. Thanks.

192818 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to fran, #731 of 1294 🔗

Yeah, I don’t really care about that because – while superficially sinister – Schwab is silly.

192987 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to fran, #732 of 1294 🔗

Schwab is only a name to me, but the above quote suggests he’s ignoring the fact that we humans are social animals (apart from a few who are reclusive by choice) which can’t be changed by top-down imposition of somebody’s theoretical redesign of society.

192286 Hopeful, replying to Hopeful, 16, #733 of 1294 🔗

The Davos Disciples are everywhere. Their madness is being enacted worldwide under cover of covid19. How do we stop these people? Their plans are being put into effect in our towns and cities. The mayors want more money not to help communities in lockdown but more likely to further the WEF aganda of metropolising and regionalising the entire country.
I’m trying hard to make people aware of what’s really happening because of government policy in response to covid19, and what’s behind the scamdemic. I’m the only unmasked person at the shops. I’m a proud bare-faced truther. I was a professional soft skills trainer but admit to being stumped. How does one communicate effectively with a person without a face? Some masks are so big, ugly ominous even. How does one make an assessment about the level of a person’s intellect when all facial cues are blocked by a dirty rag? How does one begin to understand the words being spoken when speech is muffled and distorted by said rag?
I won’t stop trying but the evil creeps knew what they were doing when they mandated masks.

192295 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Hopeful, 5, #734 of 1294 🔗

Small seeds are better than getting across a whole evil plan. Leave them with something to think about.

192299 Lms23, replying to Lms23, 5, #735 of 1294 🔗

https://thehill.com/opinion/energy-environment/504499-introducing-the-great-reset-world-leaders-radical-plan-to

June 25, 2020 – 11:00 AM EDT

“Introducing the ‘Great Reset,’ world leaders’ radical plan to transform the economy
For decades, progressives have attempted to use climate change to justify liberal policy changes. But their latest attempt – a new proposal called the “Great Reset” – is the most ambitious and radical plan the world has seen in more than a generation.

At a virtual meeting earlier in June hosted by the World Economic Forum, some of the planet’s most powerful business leaders, government officials and activists announced a proposal to “reset” the global economy. Instead of traditional capitalism, the high-profile group said the world should adopt more socialistic policies, such as wealth taxes, additional regulations and massive Green New Deal-like government programs.

“Every country, from the United States to China, must participate, and every industry, from oil and gas to tech, must be transformed,” wrote Klaus Schwab, the founder and executive chairman of the World Economic Forum, in an article published on WEF’s website. “In short, we need a ‘Great Reset’ of capitalism.” ”

https://cairnsnews.org/2020/10/16/canadian-politician-leaks-new-covid-lockdown-plan-and-great-reset-dictatorship-australia-is-part-of-it/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Canadian politician leaks new COVID lockdown plan and ‘Great Reset’ dictatorship – Australia is part of it

192346 ▶▶ Mike, replying to Lms23, 5, #736 of 1294 🔗

Damn it…that second link seems like its quite likely based on the way things are panning out at the moment. the fact much of the public now seem to regard ‘anti-maskers’ as a public health issue already does not bode well for us avoiding this sort of scenario.

192306 Alan P, replying to Alan P, 6, #737 of 1294 🔗

Thanks to you all who commented on my question regarding the money links to Pharmaceuticals, Mask manufacturer’s etc. earlier in the thread.

Can we get a proper journalist (or more) to start delving into this area? I’m sure that some digging around could unearth some hideous revelations which would cause the whole show to collapse. This would easily be the path that leads to the general public beginning to disbelieve the narrative that is being poured out day after day.

Thoughts?

192315 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Alan P, 6, #738 of 1294 🔗

One problem : Finding ‘proper’ (investigative) journalists. They’re a bit like hens’ teeth.

The digging has been done. The votes are in.

And the control is such that it doesn’t get into the wider public domain.

Remember – a large majority get their ‘news’ (received opinion) from a very narrow spectrum of (mainly broadcast) sources, and the Beeb news output (for instance) is strictly controlled.

192318 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RickH, 1, #739 of 1294 🔗

Surely it’s more a job for a forensic accountant?

192320 ▶▶▶ Humanity First, replying to RickH, 4, #740 of 1294 🔗

Also, the majority are unfortunately passive consumers of whatever information is fed them (i.e.mostly from MSM owned by vested interests) and also don’t want to venture too far from the safety of group-think.

192323 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #741 of 1294 🔗

Apparently loads of youtube channels were taken down last night.

Look at what’s left of this one:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6Bb86iVe_GvFjRa__lYDRpHcDyp6ejPe

192330 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #742 of 1294 🔗

It’s been leaked that a massive purge is planned for when the vaccine arrives.

192428 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to DRW, 1, #743 of 1294 🔗

Will we all live that long?

192512 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Steve Martindale, #744 of 1294 🔗

Probably not but they have to fob off some snake oil.

192435 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to DRW, 1, #745 of 1294 🔗

Got a link for that?

192461 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to PoshPanic, 2, #746 of 1294 🔗

It was a second-hand account from a google employee, posted on here.

192857 ▶▶▶▶▶ DomW, replying to DRW, #747 of 1294 🔗

I saved it onto my desktop. It is from 23rd July

Humanity First
5 seconds ago

Really hope this is not the future for any groups or individuals who challenge the government/official narrative. If the government can justify shutting the country indefinitely due to health concerns regarding its citizens, why do they come down like a ton of bricks on anyone who expresses health concerns about the lockdown itself, 5g or vaccines?

“Richie Allen

Howya friends. Little bit of news. I’ve a couple of mates who work for Google. They both must remain anonymous of course. They drip feed me bits of information from time to time. Around four years ago, one of them told me that the demonetisation of alternative news channels would become standard. He was right as I learned when my original YouTube channel, which had nearly 100,000 subscribers, was deleted for no reason, three years ago.

I heard from him this morning. He told me two things. He said that when the covid vaccine is ready, or shortly before then, Google/YouTube is planning to take down thousands of channels that have traditionally hosted open discussion around vaccine safety. They will do this he said, in tandem with Facebook and Twitter. According to him, discussions between all three have already taken place. He reckons it’ll be the biggest culling to date, of content creators and independent vloggers/commentators.

While this may be unsurprising, it is important news and I trust him implicitly. He also said that it is his belief (and I’ve said as much myself) that Russian interference claims are nothing but a smokescreen for mass censorship. They (the royal they), know damn well that the Russians are not responsible for spreading anti-vaccine information online, pro-Brexit propaganda or information about 5G.

They KNOW he said, that these initiatives are grassroots organisations, set up by genuinely concerned citizens, but that the easiest way to legislate for them and ultimately to censor them, is to blame Russia. Problem Reaction Solution. He’s right. Again I have said as much many times.

Last year, Professor Julian Petley, one of the UK’s finest journalists and teachers, told me before an interview that he was worried about me. He’d been attending journalist conferences and one or two conferences on fake news. Julian is an unswerving proponent of free speech. He said my name was coming up a lot and that there may be some movement against me or the show. When I told him that I wasn’t working for anyone and was broadcasting from a home studio rather than a radio station, he was somewhat relieved, but nonetheless told me to watch my back.

This morning, my Google mate said that The RA Show is on a shortlist of programmes to not only be removed from YouTube (which I don’t care about at all), but also to be removed from Google search results too. He said the RA show replacement channel, which has 31,000 subs, has in reality many more, but they’re not being counted. Worse still he said, the viewing numbers are fixed so that less than one in ten views are shown. The point of this he went on, is to dissuade people from watching, people apparently being more inclined to watch content that’s showing hundreds of thousands of views.

Now I couldn’t give a fiddlers about YT viewing figures or subscribers as you well know. The bulk of my audience listens live as it is a live radio show, or they grab the podcast from iTunes, Spotify, Podomatic etc. And viewing/listening numbers say nothing about the quality of a show in any case, but it’s important to note this, cos they ain’t just doing it to me.

Asked if there’s any concern among his fellow employees about what is happening, my mate said no. Or at least nobody has said anything. Maybe they are like him, worried about the prospect of losing a tech job, being labelled a troublemaker and struggling to get another one. Share this widely as your favourite Youtubers need to know that this mass cull is coming to coincide with the arrival of the covid-vaccine, so that they can back up their videos, something which they should be doing, but many don’t. Anyhow, thanks for reading. I’m on air at 5. Loads to do. Speak later.”

192336 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Cheezilla, 9, #748 of 1294 🔗

I’m still smarting from having my coronapedia.org.uk domain suspended literally ten seconds after I registered it.

And no, I haven’t been able to get a refund.

192478 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Mabel Cow, 2, #749 of 1294 🔗

That’s truly shocking.

192670 ▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #750 of 1294 🔗

I guess I should have expected it: Nominet (the domain registrar) is a UK company, so no doubt they have been bought like everyone else.

The best bit was when Nominet said they’d unblock my domain if I sent them a selfie and a copy of my passport. Presumably so they could pass it to the death squad. Welcome to El Salvador !

192365 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #751 of 1294 🔗

obviously too many people get wiser from watching these channels…..

There is always a risk of these channels to be taken down especially if they challenge the narrative. owners to keep separate copies and also to publish channels on alternative sites such as https://www.brighteon.com , https://www.bitchute.com and others

192487 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Victoria, 1, #752 of 1294 🔗

There is also Parler.

192369 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #753 of 1294 🔗

Big shit going on, proof US election fraud on-going coming out, Biden’s son’s laptop has lots of incriminating evidence and so on so it’s the next step to stop Trump.

Truly frightening.

192433 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #754 of 1294 🔗

I thought Biden’s son’s laptop incriminates Biden!

192438 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #755 of 1294 🔗

Big time.

192500 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, #756 of 1294 🔗

Gotcha – delayed brain!

192557 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Cheezilla, #757 of 1294 🔗

Allegedly it contains porn that will get you arrested in most countries.

192631 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ewan Duffy, 1, #758 of 1294 🔗

Oh it’s much worse than that!

192324 nickbowes, replying to nickbowes, 32, #759 of 1294 🔗

With any coming lockdown all civil servants , teachers esp the medical “experts” need to be put on reduced or half wages . That would focus minds. This country cannot carry on financing these parasites whilst businesses are trashed.

192342 ▶▶ RickH, replying to nickbowes, -14, #760 of 1294 🔗

Sorry – but stupid brainless comments like that are the last thing needed by a site trying to establish the true picture.

Totally counter-productive.

192555 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to RickH, 7, #761 of 1294 🔗

I disagree. If the State is going to inflict pain on the citizenry, the State and its employees must also suffer that pain. I am a former public servant – I saw sense and left.

192357 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to nickbowes, 7, #762 of 1294 🔗

I’m a civil servant. We’re not all lockdown zealouts you know and I wish all this nonsense was over just as much as anyone else on this site.

192378 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 5, #763 of 1294 🔗

Ditto

192441 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to nickbowes, 6, #764 of 1294 🔗

I don’t think the ones who are having to work harder to keep things going should be penalised, just because of the slackers and spongers.

Politicians having their payment withheld until they sort this mess out however..

192326 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 40, #765 of 1294 🔗

Mrs Tenchy works in a school. She’s just told me of this little gem. A child from one of the year groups was isolating at home because his father, an offshore worker, tested positive a couple of weeks ago. The father has to stay in a hotel for several days prior to being flown offshore and tested positive while there. As a result, not only did his family have to isolate, but so did all the other workers in his “bubble” at the hotel and the planned relocation of the team to the rig had to be cancelled. The father was tested a second time, and this was negative. However, his company would not backtrack on banning him and his colleagues from being flown offshore until he had a further test, provided by the NHS. This too came back negative. Presumably the first test was a false positive, but the knock-on effects were to force a family to self isolate unnecessarily; mother could not go to work and child couldn’t go to school. Additionally, the father’s company had to abandon a no doubt costly operation to fly workers to an oil rig, and deal with the subsequent knock-on effects thereafter. Great, these PCR tests, aren’t they?

192332 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Tenchy, 18, #766 of 1294 🔗

The root cause of this entire shit-show is the one-sided application of the “precautionary principle”.

Every single decision we make has costs, and the intelligent person tries to weigh up both sides of the equation.

Sadly, our “ruling class” thinks that it’s enough to look at one side only.

It’s like a pedestrian who avoids an oncoming bicycle by jumping in front of a bus.

192337 ▶▶▶ Jo, replying to Mabel Cow, 4, #767 of 1294 🔗

The precautionary principle didn’t prevail in 1999!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EkcEp7KWAAEuuqt?format=png&name=small

192349 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Mabel Cow, 14, #768 of 1294 🔗

Plenty pavement leapers are doing just that now.
Ive seen more than a few complete nutters step near a few tons of metal moving at 40 mph rather than come near someone else on a pavement outside.!!!

192354 ▶▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Nessimmersion, 10, #769 of 1294 🔗

Darwinism at its finest. 😂

192356 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nessimmersion, 4, #770 of 1294 🔗

And they’ll probably add to the false positives when they end up in A&E!

192358 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Nessimmersion, 3, #771 of 1294 🔗

All together:”PATHETIC”

192351 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mabel Cow, 2, #772 of 1294 🔗

Oh I think the precautionary principle has been successfully employed by the government as a political tool.
However, the fact that company executives have chosen to employ it with such illogical enthusiasm does tend to provoke first incredulity, then despair.

192353 ▶▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #773 of 1294 🔗

.

192560 ▶▶▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 1, #774 of 1294 🔗

Comment of the day Kitty. Couldn’t have put it better myself. Nothing further to add.

192352 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Tenchy, 7, #775 of 1294 🔗

AFAIK, helicopter costs alome is around 16K for a round trip. Then add on everyones wages.
As Homer would say – Doh!!

192366 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Tenchy, 22, #776 of 1294 🔗

I work on the rigs overseas and a lot of them are shut down and have been since March/April.

Guys and crews stuck worldwide and cannot travel home or to work.

We’re all just sitting waiting for travel restrictions to lift so we can go back to work.

Thousands laid off with no notice and so on.

But no-one with any symptoms I know of.

It’s total idiocy with winter coming and no spare capacity in the system..

192531 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #777 of 1294 🔗

Oh no, don’t say that.

Somebody here is going to use that statement to claim that shutting the rigs down is a conspiracy to give grannies hypothermia and increase the number of deaths-with-a-single-strand-of-RNA-markers-present. :-p

192561 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Mabel Cow, 9, #778 of 1294 🔗

Not that but there is only enough being produced to meet contractual obligations with no spare in the system.

Don’t believe me? Try and buy a real tanker full of real oil and not just an electronic trade and see what the availability and delivery time is.

A lot of the remedial work to keep it coming out the ground has stopped so production dropping due to that as well.

It takes quite a lot to keep production rates up at the contracted levels and this all costs lots of money which it is not worth spending at the moment (no profit, break even at bets, big losses most likely) and long-term projects not really viable with the new green utopia that keeps getting shouted about.

Look at the warning from the National Grid a few days ago due to possible power cuts due to low wind speeds and not enough “traditional” power stations online and available to take up the slack – that is the new green utopia.

Oil and gas doesn’t just go into fuel for cars/lorries/jet fuel but is the raw material for plastics, chemicals, fertiliser and a lot of other stuff you don’t think about.

192331 Bella Donna, 11, #779 of 1294 🔗

Of course this Plandemic is political, its been evident since the beginning of Lockdown. The Establishment must be having a laugh at us and who can blame them when there are so many willing to believe the Lie!

192338 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 25, #780 of 1294 🔗

Can the scum not sink any lower? The Telegraph (paywall for full story).

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/17/taxi-drivers-say-risk-attack-police-ask-snitch-passengers-breaching/

Taxi drivers have reacted with anger after a police force asked them to snitch on passengers they suspected of beaching lockdown rules.

A letter issued by West Mercia Police to an estimated 300 licensed taxi drivers in Herefordshire has called for drivers to report any incidents of people breaching the ‘rule of six’.

Questioned on the reasoning behind the letter, Chief Inspector Edd Williams from West Mercia Police said: “A letter has been shared with taxi drivers across Herefordshire following a multi-agency meeting.

“It was pointed out in the meeting that, due to their line of work, taxi drivers are likely to have information relating to significant breaches of Covid-19 regulations.

“Therefore it was jointly agreed that we would encourage professional drivers to report breaches such as large parties, mass gatherings and raves.

“This added insight enables us to be more efficient in our response and work together to take greater steps in keeping our communities as safe as possible during the pandemic and to stop the spread of the virus.”

“Multi-agency” and “insight” are on my current list of bullshit alerts.

192340 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tenchy, 14, #781 of 1294 🔗

I think the only response to that is : “So there’s room to cut police numbers even more?”

192350 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Tenchy, 13, #782 of 1294 🔗

Any taxi drivers I know wouldn’t entertain this for a second. Taxi Drivers have been hit pretty hard with these ridiculous restrictions so they’re hardly likely to make things any worse for themselves.

192367 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Tenchy, 6, #783 of 1294 🔗

Nice. Let build a nation of snitchers. Maybe taking a taxi is too dangerous….

192409 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Tenchy, 4, #784 of 1294 🔗

Put him on the list

192345 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #785 of 1294 🔗

Wait till the introduction of the equivalent of the Poor Law next year:

They have also made it their business to prosecute certain inquiries at the workhouse itself: and the result of all is, that they are forced to the conclusion that the sick poor have been most shamefully neglected; that they have been and still are devoid of the necessary articles of clothing and bedding; that they have been suffered to remain for weeks at a time in the most filthy and disgusting state; that patients have been allowed to remain for nine weeks together without change of linen or of bed clothing: that beds in which patients suffering in typhus have died, one after another, have been again and again and repeatedly used for fresh patients, without any change or attempt at purification; that the said beds were only bags of straw and shavings, for the most part laid on the floor, and that the whole swarmed with lice; that two patients suffering in infectious fever, were almost constantly put together in one bed; that it not unfrequently happened that one would be ragingly delirious, when the other way dying; and that it is a fact that a living patient has occupied the same bed with a corpse for a considerable period after death; that the patients have been for months together without properly appointed nurses to attend to them; that there has been for a considerable time none but male paupers to attend on female patients; that when the poor sick creatures were laid in the most abject and helpless state – so debilitated as to pass their dejections as they lay, they have been suffered to remain in the most befouled state possible, besmeared in their own excrement, for days together and not even washed; that the necessary stimulants ordered by the medical officer have been withheld; that when patients’ lives even depended on the free administration of wine, the fever hospital has been left without for more than forty-eight hours at a time; that death occurred amongst the patients from which such stimulant was withheld, which the medical officer attributes to this very cause; that the party whose duty it was to have provided such wine, was repeatedly applied to for it, both by the nurses at the hospital and the medical officer…

http://www.historyhome.co.uk/peel/poorlaw/huddscand.htm

192448 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Cheezilla, #786 of 1294 🔗

The Poor Law did coincide with the downturn in witch trials though.

192490 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to PoshPanic, #787 of 1294 🔗

They’d found a more effective way to deal with the “witches.”

192355 Basics, replying to Basics, 4, #788 of 1294 🔗

Scotland’s cooked books today

Summary
1,167 new cases of COVID-19 reported; this is 17.6%* of newly tested individuals

15 new reported death(s) of people who have tested positive

62 people were in intensive care yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19**

675 people were in hospital yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19**

15,089 new tests for COVID-19 that reported results

* the approach used to calculate this percentage using only newly tested individuals is under review. Further information is provided on the Data definitions and sources webpage.

**these figures are provisional, as they have not been updated for NHS Highland

https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-daily-data-for-scotland/

192514 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Basics, 2, #789 of 1294 🔗

15 new reported death(s) of people who have tested positive

I say this every day, so here goes: people who have tested positive – died with , not of .

192518 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Ceriain, 2, #790 of 1294 🔗

Yes, they have probably been in hospital for weeks.

It’s all a sham, complete con.

192616 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 1, #791 of 1294 🔗

Noticeable absence of discharged numbers!

192360 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #792 of 1294 🔗

Off topic but y’all (sorry, corn and southern friends bring out the worst of me) may be able to settle a discussion between me and Mrs Awkward at dinner just now – early I know but bought a lot of fresh corn on the cob at the market today and didn’t want to wait.

What is the preferred way to eat fresh whole corn on the cob?

I eat it like a typewriter across the rows as in the Tom and Jerry cartoons when I was a kid.

Don’t mention when we used to go scrumping as scouts and cadets through the fields please, leave with pack full to if plus other stuff like apples, fruit, rabbits (joys of being country boys who carried snares and nets) when out hiking.

Mrs Awkward eats it round the circumference then moves across a little bit and repeats.

So what way is correct – typewriter or circumference?

192362 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #793 of 1294 🔗

+1 for the Mrs Awkward technique. Left to right.

192363 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #794 of 1294 🔗

I do not eat corn on the cob, but if I did, typewriter.

192376 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #795 of 1294 🔗

typewriter … because of the butter.. it is easiest to spread an inch wide strip from end to end and then eat the corn covered by butter typewriter style before it melts and falls off.
then rotate, spread and repeat
and it’s less messy

192517 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to mjr, #796 of 1294 🔗

I butter a piece of bread, and then spin the cob on the bread when it’s lubrication time.

This approach is compatible with either eating technique.

192381 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #797 of 1294 🔗

Typewriter

192403 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #798 of 1294 🔗

Definitely typewriter. Is Mrs Awkward a gerbil?

192436 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to thinkaboutit, 6, #799 of 1294 🔗

Just asked he that – I got “the look”.

192449 ▶▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #800 of 1294 🔗

🙂

192521 ▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Awkward Git, #801 of 1294 🔗

Perhaps Mrs Awkward is just a tidy person.

I have chosen the circumferential consumption technique because it enables me to keep my cob neat all the way to the end.

192563 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Mabel Cow, #802 of 1294 🔗

She agrees.

192415 ▶▶ Dave Tee, replying to Awkward Git, #803 of 1294 🔗

Buy it in a tin is best.

192431 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Awkward Git, #804 of 1294 🔗

I’d recommend one of these & a fork.

192456 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #805 of 1294 🔗

Either way would cost me about nine hundred quid in replacement crowns… 🙁

192495 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Awkward Git, #806 of 1294 🔗

circumference for me and 3 daughters

192538 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Awkward Git, #807 of 1294 🔗

The internet is your friend and always correct https://www.mashed.com/176254/the-right-way-to-eat-corn-on-the-cob/

192364 Hoppy Uniatz, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 10, #808 of 1294 🔗

Well it looks as if the Police are quite relaxed about mask wearing. I passed a van load of them, going up Birdcage Walk today on my way to the protest event in Hyde Park, and was pleased to see all of the officers riding inside were barefaced. Thumbs up from me, Plod.

192377 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 4, #809 of 1294 🔗

Whhaaaattttttt, but there is a life threatening virus on the loose, shouldn’t they be investigating that!!!

192417 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 1, #810 of 1294 🔗

Of course, I wouldn’t expect anything less. Police in general get a really bad rap on here but they work in the real world and have a sensible grip of the situation and what the level of personal risk is.

192458 ▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, 5, #811 of 1294 🔗

did they have a sensible grip of the real world back in April?. when they put dye in a lake or a drone over that welsh town or harassed walkers and put their pictures on facebook .How about when they went around parks screaming at sun bathers or homeless people,imagine someone screaming in your face with a megaphone .How about at the last demo in London when they were cracking skulls or turning up at that guys gym the other day armed .Stop being naive they are agents of the state and not there just to give you directions when you’ve lost your way .

193848 ▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to wat tyler, #812 of 1294 🔗

…to say nothing of the foul Chief Constable of Northants threatening people with having to put up with their shopping trolleys being “inspected for non-essential items” – you utter, utter bastard plod.

I will never forget that, nor the TSG brutality on our demonstrations while giving the (much more violent) BLM demos a free pass.

Never forgive, never forget.

192424 ▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 2, #813 of 1294 🔗

Maybe you should wait till the end of the day and see if they smash a few innocent peoples heads in before giving them the thumbs up .

192504 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 2, #814 of 1294 🔗

But wait, when they get out of the vehicle the masks will be on……

192374 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 27, #816 of 1294 🔗

I feel really belligerent today and had enough so sent an e-mail to the Speaker of the House as advised by my PFCC reporting the crime of treason and crimes against humanity and requesting n investigation be started.

next step to MI5 and MI6 and alter to the Defence Staff and HM Queen.

if I disappear soon and no warning or goodbye then you will know I’m in a camp somewhere or been arkancided.

192379 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #817 of 1294 🔗

Don’t visit Canterbury!

192383 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #818 of 1294 🔗

I have to… why not?

192398 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Lockdown Truth, 3, #819 of 1294 🔗

If you absolutely must go, don’t drink the polonium tea

192432 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Lockdown Truth, 7, #820 of 1294 🔗

Is that in case I hear “who will rid me of this turbulent awkward git?”

192445 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #821 of 1294 🔗

Turbulent. Awkward. Dedicated. Brilliant!
Best I can manage is flatulent.

192460 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #822 of 1294 🔗

If the Queen gives a shit (which I doubt), please post the reply.

“Die peasant, love queenie”

192380 Al Pipp, replying to Al Pipp, 27, #823 of 1294 🔗

Can someone confirm the following-
Wearing masks = re-breathing moist air and bacteria from your own mask & mouth. So bacterial infections mean your immune system is keeping bacteria down so when you Encounter COVID the immune system has less to throw at COVID also some RNA viruses piggy back off bacterial infections to get a foothold?
Social distancing – the old story that kids brought up in “too” clean homes, when they meet everyday germs there immune systems overreact hence allergies. The rough kids sharing a bag of crisps with a pet dog, rolling around in mud and living in a dusty house – immune system primed and doesn’t overreact.

If the above is true, social distancing and isolation is tantamount to murder because if we ever mix again freely our immune systems will not be primed – I worry particularly about kids.

192384 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Al Pipp, 13, #824 of 1294 🔗

Have you noticed though, that people wearing muzzles don’t antisocial distance? So assuming the latter gives marginally better protection from catching the lab flu than the former, then face nappies are making the situation worse.

192390 ▶▶▶ Neil Hartley, replying to Tenchy, 10, #825 of 1294 🔗

That’s the Peltzman effect. Make people “feel safer” (i.e. masks) and they exhibit more risky behaviour (i.e. stop social distancing/washing hands). The change in local supermarket is evidence – much less hand sanitising now they’re “protected” by their face masks.

192482 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Neil Hartley, 1, #826 of 1294 🔗

And smearing germs from their face nappies all over the stock.

192401 ▶▶▶ Al Pipp, replying to Tenchy, 11, #827 of 1294 🔗

I do think you may be right. Humans have been living cheek by jowl for 100’s of thousands of years so we must have been able to deal with diseases before… It’s like WHO is performing a massive experiment. New Zealand has defeated COVID, so they say, but arguably they have a nation of humans with no immunity against a new coronavirus so their population could be wiped out if one person with COVID visits (they are recreating the wiping out of their people again like the Native American indians were wiped out by small pox, measles and the flu). New Zealand will have to be a prison island. Not unless they are waiting for a vaccine – and apparently coronavirus vaccines reduce symptoms only…

192413 ▶▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Al Pipp, 18, #828 of 1294 🔗

With an IFR at 0,02% I don’t think the kiwis are going to be wiped out. They will continue with the ludicrous policy of isolation now basking in the glory of zero C-19 forgetting that C-19 is not sesonal now in their coming summer,but wait until next year if they can afford this absurd policy.

192423 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to swedenborg, 11, #829 of 1294 🔗

Jacinda was reelected with over 50 percent of the vote. Crazy or what!

192469 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #830 of 1294 🔗

Let’s apply Remainer logic. What was the turnout?

192656 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to OKUK, #831 of 1294 🔗

Exaggerating majorities are Brexiteer logic, I thought?

193003 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to RickH, 1, #832 of 1294 🔗

A majority is a majority – how can you exaggerate it? You might be getting confused with margin of victory. Remainers often confuse categories.

192537 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #833 of 1294 🔗

The other 50% were those in the (now dead) foreign tourist industry who are now unemployed; circa 239,000 in a Sky News Australia report I saw a while back.

192516 ▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to Tenchy, #834 of 1294 🔗

Risk compensation. Volvo drivers had safer cars so drove more dangerously, mainly by not paying as much attention as perhaps they should. Motorcyclists of a certain age will tell you all about it…

192532 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Arnie, 2, #835 of 1294 🔗

That applied in relation to mandatory seatbelt wearing also (the suppressed Isles Report).

Injuries and deaths amongst motorists and those in cars fell when mandatory seatbelts were introduced, but there was a corresponding increase in injuries and death amongst pedestrians and cyclists, due to drivers taking less care with their driving.

193617 ▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Ewan Duffy, #836 of 1294 🔗

…and the Seatbelt-wearing law was where it all began. The thinnest edge of the wedge “for our own good”.

192397 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Al Pipp, 8, #838 of 1294 🔗

Yes it’s all true. As human beings we need human contact and exchange of germs to keep our immune systems updated. Breathing in moist bacteria into your mouth and lungs is bad for your health!

192443 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to Al Pipp, 11, #839 of 1294 🔗

This is why I couldn’t wait to get my kids back to creche, 2.5 and 1.5 year old. Having them mix with other kids at close proximity is good for them and within a week of them being back, they had runny noses….not that of course I want them to be sick but its good for their immunity!! Common colds can only build their little bodies up!

192483 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Al Pipp, 6, #840 of 1294 🔗

That’s presuming that masks and social distancing have any effect at all in any public place? I’m pretty sure masks are increasing things like strep throat etc.

192493 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Al Pipp, 4, #841 of 1294 🔗

Not sure about the bacteria making you more susceptible to Covid infection. Having a fairly mild infection with something often stops you getting another one at the same time because your innate immunity is ramped up from the first one. A severe chest infection on the other hand can make you more susceptible to another one.

And yes children are very likely better to pick up a few viruses so that they will have them less badly when they’re older. The adaptive immune system has evolved to learn and to be especially good at that in children for whom every virus is “novel” once.

192509 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to Al Pipp, 12, #842 of 1294 🔗

I’ve just had pneumonia for the third time in five years. My consultant, who refused to see me in person cos’ covid, told me in no uncertain terms to avoid wearing a mask because there is a thirteen or fourteen fold chance chance of reinfection.

I asked him about wearing a mask to protect ‘granny’ he just shrugged & said ‘no evidence’. (it was a video consultation).

192388 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 37, #843 of 1294 🔗

I’ve just seen a comment from a railway worker who said suspected suicides doubled last month. This government and its appalling advisors should be arrested for crimes against humanity.

192457 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to Bella Donna, 18, #844 of 1294 🔗

A lot of people with severe mental health issues actually need that socialising and seeing other people to help them. The fact this has been taken away from them can leave some in a very dark place. Its heartbreaking.

192494 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Bella Donna, 8, #845 of 1294 🔗

I once had to interview some first responders to railway incidents. Some were left very mentally scarred. Not a nice thing to have to do.

I personally don’t know, or know of anyone who has been even hospitalised with Covid, but I’ve heard too many stories from friends of suicides.

192604 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to PoshPanic, #846 of 1294 🔗

Yes. A lot more noticeable this week than previously.

192967 ▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to PoshPanic, #847 of 1294 🔗

I have a mate who’s a train driver who had to deal with a suicide in the path of his train. Seriously devastating.

192400 Schrodinger, replying to Schrodinger, 6, #848 of 1294 🔗

Not sure if this has been posted before but this excellent ebook ‘Covid for Idiots’ should be mandatory reading for every politician.

It is very good

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VWgE_YGq7VNQhvOv4nrcUXUHKfO9L9pJ/view

192406 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Schrodinger, 4, #849 of 1294 🔗

Not seen it before. It’s great. Thanks.

192501 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Schrodinger, #850 of 1294 🔗

Nice one, thanks!

192664 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Schrodinger, 1, #851 of 1294 🔗

Is it available in print form? I might send a copy of that to my MP. She’s already getting a copy of the Nuremberg Trials…

192676 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Schrodinger, #852 of 1294 🔗

I made a tiny URL for it: http://tiny.cc/covidforidiots

192408 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 8, #853 of 1294 🔗

https://off-guardian.org/2020/10/12/klaus-schwab-his-great-fascist-reset/

This is a lengthy but digestible analysis of the aims of Herr Schwab, the leading architect of the fourth industrial revolution and the New Normal.

For those who like science fiction, I recommend the novels of Aussie Greg Egan, who foresaw much of the new technocratic utopia which awaits us.

I read several of his books but found them too disturbing for my taste.

Meanwhile, here in Sturgeon land, the gags proliferate; they’re now worn by about 70% -in the open air and in cars.

My exemption badge is a virtual one off: a young man in a newly established bakery told me that mine was the only one he’d seen!

He was polite and friendly and served me without hesitation.

Now She Who Must Be Obeyed has extended the gagging requirements while at the same time telling us she understands: well she’s not feeling the pinch, since earning £150,000 + pa = all gain, no pain.

Since the apparent rise in cases has not been reduced by gagging, what’s the point, other than more of the control creep, so skilfully employed by the Dear Leader.

Add hubby’s earnings and bail outs from Westminster; what’s not to like?

Finally, despite receiving all this wicked British dosh, she’s seen fit to write an article for Die Welt, slagging off Brexit.

So much for solidarity.

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/europe-news/nicola-sturgeon-die-welt-article-3848398

192455 ▶▶ James Marker, replying to wendyk, 3, #854 of 1294 🔗

Schwab is a nutcase who thinks he can build a 21st Century Tower of Babel. As Will notes above, this forum attracts readers from across the political spectrum, but I think we will all stand shoulder to shoulder to fight the New World Order and protect freedom.

192471 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to James Marker, 3, #855 of 1294 🔗

Definitely! The arrogance of Schwab and co: we know best so don’t make a fuss.

192744 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to wendyk, 1, #856 of 1294 🔗

Unfortunately, this is my experience of Sturgeon Land too. General concensus is that the half-term circuit breaker is not working & we’ll be locked down properly again come November. If I counter that furlough ends at the end of October, I am looked at like an alien.

192414 Beowa, replying to Beowa, 3, #857 of 1294 🔗

Ive come across this handy little ebook which has been created by someone with care

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VWgE_YGq7VNQhvOv4nrcUXUHKfO9L9pJ/view

192420 ▶▶ Schrodinger, replying to Beowa, 1, #858 of 1294 🔗

It’s very good I just linked to it about 3 post previously but no harm done it needs sharing as widely as possible (especially in the Houses of Parliament)/

192673 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Beowa, #859 of 1294 🔗

I just made a short URL for it: http://tiny.cc/covidforidiots

It’s really got all the stats you need in one place. No attribution on it, so no idea who has compiled it. It sounds like Ivor Cummins in places, but is more blunt than Ivor usually is.

192419 Bella Donna, 12, #860 of 1294 🔗

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ1m_EpH7A0

Today’s rally in London. I particularly liked the “You can stick the NWO up your ****!

192429 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 20, #861 of 1294 🔗

Italy
First wave without masks
Second wave with masks
In every mask mandated country in Europe(Belgium, France, Italy, Spain, Portugal) you will see the same picture. The politicians would say it could be much worse but we all know that masks do not stop the virus.SD has a diminishing effect when the virus gets endemic and seasonal. Unstoppable. Throw in the towel and come to your senses, politicians.

192497 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to swedenborg, 15, #862 of 1294 🔗

And the fucking tragedy is, all people have to do is to select the “Deaths” box on Google instead of the “New cases” box (which is the default, naturally) to see the real picture .

The data’s right there, on the Google search results, for everyone to see. It’s so easy, it’s laughable. But people are so intellectually lazy they won’t even take this tiny little step.

192697 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Mabel Cow, 5, #863 of 1294 🔗

But people are so intellectually lazy they won’t even take this tiny little step.

Nail on the head, MC.
I think one of the problems, in this country anyway, is that people seem to think ‘case’ means ‘death’; it could explain the ridiculous YouGov poll figures.

192641 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, 2, #864 of 1294 🔗

Hang on, swedenborg – this isn’t a second ‘wave’ – it’s clearly a testdemic.

192893 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to RickH, #865 of 1294 🔗

It is true that the majority of tests are asymptomatic but there are in this masstesting, true cases filling up ICU in Spain,Italy and now Czechia and other countries with previous minimal problems.Call it seasonal wave magnified by masstesting but there will be increased deaths but at a lower level than the first wave.

192434 TJN, replying to TJN, 4, #866 of 1294 🔗

Been out for a bit, so haven’t seen today’s posts. Just seen this article on The Telegraph website, by Neil O’Brien, Member Of Parliament for Harborough.

It’s behind a paywall, and Toby doesn’t like full extracts, but here’s some extensive highlights (sorry Toby if it’s too much, but people need to see this). Enjoy.

It sounds tempting to get younger people back to normal. Could it be workable? I’ve been trying to crunch the numbers about what it would mean in practice.

… we’d be looking at 16 to 17 million people going through 6 months of full isolation, while we let the virus work through the rest of us.

Trying to isolate and care for all these people while the virus reached a climax would be a monumental undertaking. It’s not clear how we’d safely supply them with food as the virus spiked.

… About eight per cent of people have had the virus so far (call it 10 per cent to be generous) and on the common assumption that we’ve need to get to 60 per cent for herd immunity to work, we’d need around a further 50 per cent of the younger population to get it.

If we look at mortality rates by age and combine them with the age profile of the UK, then if half of younger people got it and only five per cent of pensioners, that would mean around 90,000 deaths.

But if isolation was not so good and 15 per cent of pensioners got it, then around 175,000 people would die of it.

But that’s still assuming that healthcare is not overwhelmed, and so all those who needed treatment for Covid could still be able to get it. It’s also assuming there are no non-coronavirus deaths caused by the NHS being overwhelmed.
Sadly, both those assumptions are unlikely.

If we take data on the proportion of those with coronavirus who end up in hospital by age group and we again assume that 50 per cent of younger people get the virus plus five to 15 per cent of pensioners, then we should expect between 860,000 and around 1.1 million hospitalisations.

… Some people talk about Sweden.  Sweden has favourable demographics to get off lightly: more people live alone than anywhere else, and the country is sparsely populated. Nonetheless, the death rate there has been ten times higher than their similar neighbours in Norway and Finland. It’s not been a success …

… Having crunched the numbers, I conclude the Declaration isn’t a viable solution. The countries that are doing best have followed completely different approaches. We should learn from them, rather than embark on a route which would see the NHS overwhelmed and would be likely to lead to hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths.

The bits I’ve missed out are just as good. Comments are disabled.

192442 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to TJN, 11, #867 of 1294 🔗

Comments are disabled.

I bet they are!!!!!

192709 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #868 of 1294 🔗

Comments allowed now. He’s getting an absolute slating. My favourites are:

Drivel from start to finish

and

Heaven help the people of Harborough

On reflection, I doubt that O’Brien actually wrote this article. I suspect it was cobbled together for him, and it’s gone under his name to give it gravitas (if that’s the right word).

192752 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to TJN, #869 of 1294 🔗

If it was for gravitas it’s seriously backfired. Reveals him as an idiot.

192758 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Cheezilla, #870 of 1294 🔗

Yes, or a stooge. Or a frustrated backbencher seeking preferment.

192451 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to TJN, 2, #871 of 1294 🔗

A similar-ish write up on the Daily Fail. People are getting hacked off!

192454 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Janice21, 1, #872 of 1294 🔗

By the same MP? Got a link?

192462 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to TJN, 1, #873 of 1294 🔗

> About eight per cent of people have had the virus so far (call it 10 per cent to be generous)

I don’t know where he gets that from. Ioannides’ IFR of 0.05% for <70s implies that 29% of England and Wales have been infected this year (up to week ending 2020-10-02).

192468 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Mabel Cow, 1, #874 of 1294 🔗

I’m guessing he’s got that from the number of people supposed to have antibodies.

192476 ▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to TJN, #875 of 1294 🔗

Then I guess he hasn’t heard about T-cell cross immunity then. 🙂

192506 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Mabel Cow, 1, #876 of 1294 🔗

Well on yesterday’s comments section djaustin, who I understand has expertise in epidemiology, posted:

I have seen no prospective evidence that pre-existing T cell cross reactivity confers a lower risk of infection. I have seen no evidence that people with confirmed infection have not produced some seropositivity.

(He didn’t actually define ‘infection’.)

So what are we, as non-specialists, to believe?

I’m sticking with the T cell theory …

192551 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to TJN, 6, #877 of 1294 🔗

Well djaustin might not have seen it but there is pretty good evidence of cross immunity (humoral as well as cytotoxic T-cell which is a point I keep trying to clarify– T-cells are part of both immune subsystems).

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.14.095414v1

You have to consider all the lines of evidence. It’s just not believable that you could have an almost completely constant 30k infections distributed at random throughout the UK all summer, as the ONS found, if you had a 93% susceptible population.

The only way infections stay at a steady level like that is if the virus is endemic, in other words that you have herd immunity.

If it had been apparently almost completely eradicated I could believe we were still 93% susceptible. But it hasn’t been. It’s been ticking over the whole time. You can’t just hold an epidemic at 93% susceptible for several months. It makes literally no sense. Your options are to “let it rip” as we did or crush it with repeated brutal lockdowns as Australia are attempting. It’s not going to just sit there.

Clearly far fewer than 93% are susceptible and the antibody tests are undercounting. This is most likely due to a combination of spectrum bias and cross immunity. There is good evidence for both of these things.

192630 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to guy153, 5, #878 of 1294 🔗

Fully agree. This is now endemic .The synchronus increase in all European countries at the same time must be the sign of this.

192696 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to swedenborg, 3, #879 of 1294 🔗

Ditto. Fully agree with guy153. Inescapable logic I would think.

192723 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to guy153, 1, #880 of 1294 🔗

Cross reactivity is not cross-immunity. That is my point. Presence of pre-existing neutralising antibodies is no bad thing – and that might be a driver for asymptomatic vs. symptomatic infections. But sterile immunity – as in a fraction of the population who just do not get the infection – has yet to be demonstrated clinically. The age patterns in the ONS survey do not favour protection of young children, who are infected with coronoaviruses multiple times per year. THey might be expected to have lower infection rates, but this does not appear to be the case. They do however, have much lower morbidity. Perhaps due to cross-reactivity, perhaps ACE2 expression levels,

192851 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to djaustin, 1, #881 of 1294 🔗

Agree that cross-reactivity is no guarantee of immunity per se although it makes it likely. It can even sometimes make matters worse although this is the exception rather than the rule.

That study I posted a link to earlier today however did find neutralising humoral cross-immunity from other HCoVs particularly in children and young people. That was the smoking gun that confirmed what the Le Bert and Grifoni studies suggested but you are right did not prove.

Agree that the cross-immunity is probably rarely sterilising but it is a very likely reason not to test positive for high levels of particular SARS2 specific antibodies many months later. And it very likely is one of the reasons why some people get the disease much worse than others. But there will surely be other factors involved as well.

192872 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to guy153, 2, #882 of 1294 🔗

I rather hope that this really is a driver at least for asymptomatic infections. Because at least there is then a control on morbidity and maybe transmission. My main objection is the speed with which people are keen to take as certain, that which is not.

It is certain that children have much lower morbidity (unlike influenza where they are knocked down and fill the hospitals). The big question is why is this the case, given the ONS infection levels?

On a technical level, presence of neutralising antibodies is important, but titer (amount) is key. The vaccine studies are all comparing the vaccine-produced antibodies to convalescent plasma levels. But even those have not been proven to be therapeutic. I HOPE they are protective!

192935 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to djaustin, 2, #883 of 1294 🔗

It’s a complicated picture. Just dumping antibodies into someone else’s body may work, but you aren’t recreating exactly the same environment as if they had had a natural infection– there will be much less T-cell activity for one thing– and this kind of treatment caused enhanced disease for SARS1 in monkeys.

The immunity you get from a natural infection is clearly pretty good as there have only been a handful of reported reinfections out of hundreds of thousands of infections. Most likely it will behave like other coronaviruses– you will get reinfected every few years or so but with less severity, until you start to get really old at which point it might kill you.

The immunity you get from the vaccine candidates is less well-known as they haven’t been tried on anything like as many people as natural infection. None of them recreate exactly the response of a natural infection, vaccines never do, and there is still an unknown risk of enhanced disease as well as of poor levels of protection.

Rather than setting too much store by the studies from Le Bert and others I think it makes more sense to look at studies that just measure spectrum bias directly like this one: https://doi.org/10.1101/2020.05.30.20111393

And I wish people would do more. We PCR tested hundreds of thousands people. It would be very easy to follow up and test large samples of the same people for antibodies to get a clearer picture of the level of undercounting. Whether the reason is T-cells, different antibodies, innate immunity, doesn’t matter for practical purposes. What we’re interested in is what conclusions can we draw about exposure level from antibody testing.

The claim that 93% of people are susceptible is as bogus as the claim we often hear on the other side that the PCR test is “meaningless”. People are just using half-truths casuistically to justify their point of view. The proper way to address that 93% claim I think is not to make overconfident assertions about T-cells, but to look at the big picture. We can see from the course of the epidemic that 93% susceptible is just not feasible. Spectrum bias, no doubt partly due to other kinds of immunity (and just different antibodies) provide plausible explanations of the apparent contradiction.

192992 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to guy153, 2, #884 of 1294 🔗

“What we’re interested in is what conclusions can we draw about exposure level from antibody testing.”

ONS are following up with antibody testing, but it is of course a process of elimination not confirmation. Lilly and Regeneron have both shown that “dumping” antibodies works as an antiviral effect, reducing viral load and lowering hospitalisations. Those antibodies came out of recovering patients, so clearly potent neutralising antibodies at high enough levels can be therapeutics. It’s not unreasonable to think that they can also be protective. Interestingly, RGN showed their antibody did little in those who had already seroconverted and started their immune response.

A previous long-term (20-year) study of the other four cornoaviruses (only N = 10 subjects) showed reinfection – as measured by a boost in antibodies – was about every 24 months. We’re 8 months in and I don’t want it again any day soon – I was pretty ill!

I’d like to see a large ONS-sized prospective study to test possible immunity in cross reactive T-cell positive subjects. The science is crying out to know this. If only to silence the detractors 😉 – or not, I really don’t know the answer either, but am happy to admit it!

193055 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to djaustin, #885 of 1294 🔗

Interesting discussion chaps.

193167 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to TJN, #886 of 1294 🔗

Thanks. As I said, I’m a scientist and by nature, therefore, a skeptic. Not a lockdown zealot per se, but trying to tease apart fact from myth.

On a positive note, these antibodies will come for therapy soon (both companies have filed in the US – one POTUS-approved!) and they will be tested for prophylaxis. Even if vaccines fail, I believe these antibodies will be shown to be protective – I call it passive vaccination. Some time away yet 2H21.

193330 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to djaustin, #887 of 1294 🔗

I would like to ask you both some questions on your posts (no medical background me, but want to understand), but don’t have time.

I think it was you who said that previous coronavirus colds are unlikely to confer immunity, as everyone’s had a coronavirus cold. Fair point. My guess is that they confer part immunity, the strength of which varies over time, depending on the individual’s general health/wellbeing at that time.

I buy into the T-cell immunity theory, as I think something like this is responsible for the low infection* rates in SE Asia – I don’t think T&T or masks had anything to do with their relatively light escape.

When I say ‘infection’, I mean actual symptoms and/or infectiousness. I guess that if the virus gets into a body, starts to replicate, but is zapped by the immune defences before it gets very far, and before any symptoms appear, it counts as an infection in strict technical terms, but not in the way the layman would view it.

Off out now, so won’t see any replies for ages.

193096 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to djaustin, 1, #888 of 1294 🔗

Yes, I know the study you’re talking about it– it was done in the Netherlands. You probably won’t be so ill the next time around 🙂

A large T-cell study is relatively harder than antibodies or PCR as they are harder tests to do. But since people are talking about spending £100bn on crazy testing projects it seems there’s plenty of budget for these things…

You don’t need it to be that large. Things were very evenly spread and we’re looking for something that’s present in about 50% or 70% of people so just a sample of a few hundred is enough to show the picture.

193163 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to guy153, #889 of 1294 🔗

I consider that study to be one of the most informative pieces of science conducted during this epidemic. There is nothing like it for a good (but unpalatable) sense of perspective. Sadly my own antibodies were too low to be used for convalescent plasma (NHS test the titer after donation) – maybe why I was so ill!

192587 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mabel Cow, 1, #890 of 1294 🔗

Selective deafness.

192574 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mabel Cow, 3, #891 of 1294 🔗

Well – if only 8% have had it – it isn’t, by definition, very infectious, is it?

192868 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to RickH, 2, #892 of 1294 🔗

But that’s the thing, it is. Another clue which is something I was looking at months ago is the relatively even geographical spread. If HIT was 60% and the average exposure was 8% you would expect to see pockets at 60% and others at about 1%. To get almost the whole country just lightly browned at between 3 and 10% would take some doing because that’s just not how viruses spread. If you pass about 5% you reach herd immunity (whatever that is) incredibly quickly. The only time things move slowly is right at the start and at the end.

The only way I can think of to achieve almost uniform 7% exposure would be to first lock everyone down completely and then post a small bottle of virus to 7% of the population selected at random with instructions to open the bottle and take a deep breath. I don’t remember this happening.

192578 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Mabel Cow, 1, #893 of 1294 🔗

510,000 deaths predicted – 42,000 currently died i.e. Ferguson’s “do nothing” model

So if 510,000 represents the whole population then 42,000 will represent a precentage (8.2 %)

He’s also saying that currently we have been doing nothing

192693 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to mhcp, #894 of 1294 🔗

Interesting, I hadn’t thought of it like that. My bet is it’s a coincidence though, and that they are going on the anti-body tests.

192473 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to TJN, #895 of 1294 🔗

To want to go with the plan set out in the Barrington Declaration, you’d have to be 100 per cent sure than none of the three better solutions under development will arrive: no vaccine, no mass rapid testing and no medical improvements that mean people who get the virus don’t die of it. But actually, it looks increasingly likely that several of these solutions will arrive next year.

I would have thought that the imminence of either or both of “mass rapid testing” and “ medical improvements that mean people who get the virus don’t die of it” would actually improve the case for GBD.

192498 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Richard Pinch, 3, #896 of 1294 🔗

I’d bet on medical improvements within a year (on top of the great strides that have already been made), and maybe ‘mass rapid testing’ (although what difference that would make I don’t know – and neither I suspect does the author), and wouldn’t bet on an effective vaccine for a very long while yet.

I would bet nothing at all on our MPs getting to grips with the basic practicalities of dealing with covid.

192520 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Richard Pinch, 3, #897 of 1294 🔗

Mass rapid testing so you can be given a false positive more efficiently?

192567 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Ewan Duffy, 2, #898 of 1294 🔗

Please don’t get the impression that I’m a supporter of “mass rapid testing”, otherwise “Project Moonshot”, because I’m not — in the sense that I do not think it can be made to work. But if it could, it would actually negate O’Brien’s argument about being impossible to protect the vulnerable effectively.

192590 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Richard Pinch, #899 of 1294 🔗

If it could ….

What a pointless point to make.

192684 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #900 of 1294 🔗

As a hypothetical it’s surely a fair enough point to make. As I understand it, RP is trying to pick out the inconsistencies in the MP’s arguments, not argue for resources to be put into mass testing.

192730 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to TJN, 2, #901 of 1294 🔗

Quite right, thanks — I’m pointing out that two of the three things O’Brien considers arguments against GBD are in fact arguments for it, and that one of them is impossible anyway.

192582 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Richard Pinch, 8, #902 of 1294 🔗

Let’s cut through the crap and argy-bargy.

This virus is just not significant enough to warrant anything other than the actions taken in the average ‘flu season (and yes, that takes into account the scotch mist of a vaccine).

192475 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to TJN, 4, #903 of 1294 🔗

As with all this stuff there are huge assumptions made and then an edifice of a complex argument made on these foundations of shifting sand. The elderly and the vulnerable are already shielding and doing it quite well and it does not mean isolation, we have a weekly village coffee morning with many vulnerable people attending, very strict precautions but happy, chatty and social. When we were allowed to visit relatives we and they took care to minimise risky contacts prior to the visit, it can and is being done.
Then it annoys me when they bring out the protect the NHS argument, £129 Billion budget and a million staff and we have to protect them? We have paid them the protection money I rather feel they need to get organised and protect us.
Then they bring out the death scares, but are they talking about extra deaths above the long term average or re-branding deaths as covid? Over the Winter 6 months 300000 to 400000 people will die, if they were being objective in their comments they would say whether they mean extra deaths or that many of the normally expected deaths will be Covid, given that everything is Covid now.
What nobody seems to say is whether they really think covid is going to go away, most unlikely in my view and so if it is herer to stay for a while how are we going to live with it? I think many people still have an illogical and irrational belief that we can achieve zero covid by our own efforts when the truth is we are as likely to do that as we are to be able to stop the tide coming in!

192502 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to TJN, #904 of 1294 🔗

There are about 12 million people aged 65 or over in the UK. But many pensioners live with younger people, and there’s 14.8 million people living in households with someone of pension age.

Presumably, then since the “14.8 million people living in households with someone of pension age” must logically include the 12 million people of pension age, that means there only about 2.8 million people who are not of pension age living with pensioners?

192575 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #905 of 1294 🔗

I think it is likely much less than this. According to the grandparent equivalent of Mumsnet, there are only 200k grandparent-grandchild families. Given the likely socio-economic status of these families (some of my schoolfriends in the working class area I hail from were grandmothers in their 30s or early 40s) I would suggest that many/most are under 65.

192667 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #906 of 1294 🔗

Probably. But on O’Brien’s figures, the number of people of working age who might conceivably need to be subject to restrictions is one sixth of what he suggests. There are 36 million people or working age and we could, I think, well afford to have 8% put under time-bounded restrictions than to having something like 100% of them under indefinite restrictions.

192632 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Richard Pinch, 6, #907 of 1294 🔗

We ‘elderly’ and ‘vulnerable’ are quite capable of looking after ourselves. And no, a lot of us don’t take sugar, don’t accede to locking up society on the pretense that it’s for ‘our good’ (fascist idea used by the dishonest), don’t want an existence as a substitute for life.

And no, we don’t want Covid, or ‘flu …. or cancer and diabetes and heart disease such as are being positively encouraged by all this shit.

But we’ll take our f.ing chances rather than accede to the massive fake concern represented by SAGE and its brown nosers.

192777 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #908 of 1294 🔗

I hadn’t thought of that – potentially interesting figures, right or wrong. One of the lessons which should surely emerge from this tragedy is that we should take much more care in looking after the elderly segment of society. And in looking after someone you can’t do much better than actually living with them, or at least spending a lot of time with them.

192505 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to TJN, 8, #909 of 1294 🔗

Has he ever asked if those he thinks are vulnerable want to be protected or want to live life to the full and take their chances of dropping dead a little bit early rather than having really miserable non-life for a few years?

I know my choice.

192596 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #910 of 1294 🔗

That would make a much more useful YouGov poll!

192513 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to TJN, 1, #911 of 1294 🔗

Reposting the serology test chart from earlier. If they really want to broadcast their knowledge of immunity, then they should make sure they’ve have a better picture of where that level is!

192572 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to PoshPanic, 3, #912 of 1294 🔗

I think there’s a problem here. Everyone has worked out that an antibody test is meaningless because antibodies don’t hang around for a long time. I know many people who “know” that they’ve “had it” including people who had a positive seroprevalence test, who’ve since tested negative for antibodies. Why bother?

192524 ▶▶ TJN, replying to TJN, 3, #913 of 1294 🔗

After reading the Right Honourable Member for Harborough’s article just now, I feel that my brain is going to blow a fuse, either that or my soul is going to die. So sorry if I don’t get back to any posts for a bit, but I’m going to have to look at something non covid.

An Intellectual Adventurer in Archaeology: Reflections on the work of Charles Thomas . (2018)

Anyone else feel that sometimes have to remind themselves of their sanity?

192599 ▶▶▶ Stephanos, replying to TJN, 1, #914 of 1294 🔗

Yes, I like to get back to my Latin, Greek and Syriac. Much more fun (well, I think it is) and then I can forget about all this nonsense.

192534 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to TJN, 8, #915 of 1294 🔗

WTAF! Where did he get his numbers from?

6 months of full isolation”

No-one suggested that!

“eight per cent of people have had the virus so far (call it 10 per cent to be generous)”

Bullshit; he doesn’t know that!

 “if half of younger people got it and only five per cent of pensioners, that would mean around 90,000 deaths”

Rubbish; made up number!

“around 175,000 people would die of it”

 Rubbish; made up number!

“we should expect between 860,000 and around 1.1 million hospitalisations”

He’s making it up as he goes along!

What a pile of shite!

192602 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ceriain, 1, #916 of 1294 🔗

He’s been to the Wankock School of Statistical Invention.

192636 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #917 of 1294 🔗

Agreed. Anyone with a brain that dysfunctional would serve humanity best by donating it for target practice.

192564 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to TJN, 3, #918 of 1294 🔗

“Trying to isolate and care for all these people while the virus reached a climax would be a monumental undertaking”

At least it works be a worthwhile undertaking, unlike the monumental waste of time that is “track and trace”. Honestly, after all the resources they’ve paid into this, and furlough, and setting else, finding an effective method to protect the vulnerable (who want to be protected) would be small potatoes.

192698 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to TJN, #919 of 1294 🔗

‘Crunching the numbers’ I note that he is assuming an IFR of perhaps 3 to 4 %. This incredibly basic error shows that he is genuine, but also a dangerous idiot.

192764 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Yawnyaman, #920 of 1294 🔗

Perhaps as regards covid parameters he’s still stuck in last March, a la the whole government.

192866 ▶▶ Sceptical Lefty, replying to TJN, #921 of 1294 🔗

I wonder which member of the modelling mafia wrote that for him?

193058 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Sceptical Lefty, #922 of 1294 🔗

Yes, I think someone (or someones) wrote it for him – there’s something odd about the prose and construction which suggests to me that it isn’t his own work, or at the very least the points were being hand-fed to him and he jotted them down, without full understanding what he was writing.

192463 TJN, replying to TJN, 26, #923 of 1294 🔗

Apologies if this has already been discussed today. IDS’s Telegraph article, as cited in today’s post, includes the following statement:

Appointments to it [SAGE] of an estimated 100 scientists and academics appear to be made by the Chief Scientific Officer [i.e. Vallance] and the Chief Medical Officer [i.e. Whitty] alone.

If true, this is astonishing, and scandalous. Can anyone comment on its veracity?

192671 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to TJN, 2, #924 of 1294 🔗

IDS is a privy councillor so would probably have this info available to him. In any case he is generally a reliable source.

192679 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to TJN, 2, #925 of 1294 🔗

List of participants of SAGE and related sub-groups: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/scientific-advisory-group-for-emergencies-sage-coronavirus-covid-19-response-membership/list-of-participants-of-sage-and-related-sub-groups
Don’t know who appoints them, but there is a lot of them.

All that money being paid for their opinions and hardly a brain among them.

The fact that Didi Harding is on there tells you how sage SAGE actually is.

192465 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 29, #926 of 1294 🔗

Son contacted by engineer from national company re gas safety check. Engineer tells him he’ll be coming with all the gloves, masks etc.
Son tells him: “To be honest, I’m pretty relaxed about all that so it’s up to you.”
Engineer heaves a sigh of relief, confesses that he’s not bothered either – and that he’s always up for a brew.

192489 ▶▶ Dave Angel Eco Warrier, replying to Cheezilla, 18, #927 of 1294 🔗

Ditto. However, the engineer we had waited until he was inside our house before de-masking. Unfortunately, he says it is not uncommon that the neighbours of relaxed customers will complain to his company if he is seen entering or leaving houses without a mask. Insidious.

192544 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Cheezilla, 14, #928 of 1294 🔗

My gas man who done my recent safety check and also come round last week is full on sceptic, lovely having a normal conversation with a human, no bullshit no silly distancing just normal human interaction.

192585 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to stefarm, 13, #929 of 1294 🔗

I’ve had six different tradesmen visit over the last couple of weeks. All interactions completely normal. They all know it’s bollox.

192761 ▶▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #930 of 1294 🔗

Agree totally & is exactly what we’ve found. Tradesmen are going in & out of people’s houses daily & coming into contact with a lot of people, so they know exactly what is going on.

192470 Awkward Git, 33, #931 of 1294 🔗

Went to a truck stop Greasy Lil’s today.

The T&T paper was empty and no-one was bothering with the QR code.

Had a chat with the staff – they said if questioned everyone ordered takeaway so no requirement for T&T.

Good to see a place actually know the legislation.

192488 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 14, #932 of 1294 🔗

Just starting for hone after a pretty ok day in London. Numbers a bit disappointing, but a good march for all that. No idea how things went in Liverpool. Full report probably tomorrow.

192579 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nick Rose, 6, #933 of 1294 🔗

Thanks for being there Nick.

I keep looking for Liverpool info but nothing so far. I’ll let you all know if anything comes through.

192584 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #934 of 1294 🔗

Yes, thankyou Nick.

192609 ▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Ovis, 6, #935 of 1294 🔗

Would there be any mileage in a virtual sign up for these protests? Of course it would be very much a poor man’s type of participation. But I am sure I’m not alone in being simply unable to get to a protest in London. I would like my name to be publicly counted in support, though. It would mean that even if only a few get to the physical protest, you can wave a list of people willing to give their names (if only that) in solidarity.

192510 steve, replying to steve, 4, #936 of 1294 🔗

Dominic Raab admitting testing is
“93%” false positives.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/aqPgQ6Q4vN4M/

192535 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to steve, 3, #937 of 1294 🔗

So did the presenter ask what were the implications for the high false positive rate in the general community testing??

192542 ▶▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #938 of 1294 🔗

I assume that’s a rhetorical question.

192511 mattghg, replying to mattghg, 13, #940 of 1294 🔗

MSM ramping up the “circuit breaker” clamour. It feels like March again, only worse.

192569 ▶▶ RickH, replying to mattghg, 4, #941 of 1294 🔗

Yes. Because the assumption is – again – that another carrot up the bum is needed . Which is the basic fallacy.

It’s this problem of a completely false narrative. Because the fact (not model, not projection) is that there is nothing much happening. Behind all the blather, mortality remains very low and other indicators are moving much as would be expected at this time of year.

Underpinning everything is the continuing situation of not knowing what is the actual role of SARS-CoV-2 in illness and death. After six months, the central issue remains muddy beyond belief.

192608 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to mattghg, 5, #942 of 1294 🔗

Yes because in March we still had hope that it would be short lived

192811 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #943 of 1294 🔗

And no muzzles.

192522 Amanda, replying to Amanda, 2, #944 of 1294 🔗

Here’s German-American lawyer, Dr. Reiner Fuellmich, outlining the scientific fraud involved in the Covid PCR test (not designed for diagnostic purposes) and the Covid crimes against humanity:

Video: “Crimes Against Humanity”: The German Corona Investigation. “The PCR Pandemic” Full Transcript https://www.globalresearch.ca/video-crimes-against-humanity-the-german-corona-investigation/5725795

Where’s the pandemic? US Death counts for 2020 (adjusted) are no different from previous years! https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/10/bill-sardi/771239-2/

Doctor from Netherlands, founder of Doctors for Truth, says covid is just a seasonal flu:
https://twitter.com/EatlovePray11/status/1316778274983419904

This virus is the cover for the ruling elite to wage economic warfare on the working people of the world. They are deliberately destroying the global economy and financial system, so the WEF/Davos crowd can usher in their Great Reset and the 4th Industrial Revolution, which is a totalitarian takeover of humanity, where all aspects of our lives will be controlled by technology.

192580 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Amanda, 3, #945 of 1294 🔗

It is undeniable that the government have embarked on a scorched earth policy regarding the economy. The £ cannot hold on much longer.
So the question is what do they have in store

192529 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #946 of 1294 🔗

I feel compelled to say this:

I noticed last weekend that Mayo generated a hugely long and pointless thread, nitpicking about Ferguson’s previous models. If I’d been new to the site, I’d probably have not bothered to come back.

Same has happened this week. Mayo pops in and voila, a long very skippable thread nitpicking about both Ferguson and poll numbers ensues.

I’m sure the responders have a jolly time but, under our present circumstances regarding being in the middle of a totalitarian takeover, it all seems very irrelevant to me.

192536 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #947 of 1294 🔗

Waste of time reading and responding to it.

192545 ▶▶ Ossettian, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #948 of 1294 🔗

Lieutenant Mayo

192552 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ossettian, 2, #949 of 1294 🔗

It had crossed my mind.

192894 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Cheezilla, #950 of 1294 🔗

Indeed. Does have that ring about it.

192668 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Ossettian, 1, #951 of 1294 🔗

Haha. Answers to the MP for Bournemouth East.

192588 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #952 of 1294 🔗

Obvious conclusion: ask people not to post egregiously false statements about Ferguson’s previous models, and confine criticism of him and his models, if you feel it necessary, to the things he actually said and did rather than the assiduous repetition of things he didn’t.

192618 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #953 of 1294 🔗

Agreed. Let’s just exclude Ferguson from mention on this site. He’s of no relevance to useful analysis of anything. Just a player of computer games.

192907 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Richard Pinch, #954 of 1294 🔗

Anyone can say “fatalities could be between 1 and 1 million”. The issue is how they present their findings. There is absolutely no doubt that Ferguson was touting nightmare scenarios and pressing the government to adopt extreme lockdown measures backed by laws ( which he then proceed to break on multiple occasions himself).

192612 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #955 of 1294 🔗

Heated debate is a good way to test hypotheses, points of view and so on.

That is why the house of commons has proved itself such an exemplar, so useful………..Oh!……….Hang on there a moment……

192796 ▶▶ matt, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #956 of 1294 🔗

I’m warming to Mayo. He’s stopped throwing peanuts and started being constructive. I have no issue with people disagreeing with me as long as I can learn something from them.

192909 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to matt, -1, #957 of 1294 🔗

Mayo’s game is simply to undermine scepticism either out of conviction or under instruction. That’s why they were celebrating Jacinda’s victory.

192892 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Cheezilla, #958 of 1294 🔗

Nit picking in a very pro Ferguson way, ignoring how Ferguson presents his data.

192530 parsnip, 4, #959 of 1294 🔗

An international group of lockdown skeptics are having a two-hour live Q&A with Dr. Bhattacharya right now. It takes only a few seconds to create an account and join in if you’d like. Live until 7 pm GMT. Please spread the word!
https://www.reddit.com/r/LockdownSkepticism/comments/jcxsb1/ask_me_anything_dr_jay_bhattacharya/

192543 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 20, #960 of 1294 🔗

Trio of lockdown sceptics encountered in the last two days:

• Estate agent
• Solicitor. “Everyone’s going to ignore it.”
• Small, indie furniture firm.

192627 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Mr Dee, 9, #961 of 1294 🔗

I wish my estate agent was. Got an e-mail yesterday, following Essex’s branding as plague central, saying that I will be required to wear a mask in my own home if I am there during viewings. They can bugger right off.

192666 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to kh1485, 4, #962 of 1294 🔗

100 per cent of estate agents round these parts that I’ve had dealings with have been lockdown sceptics (that’s only three, but still…)

Your home, your castle, your rules.

Good luck with your sale!

192547 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 9, #963 of 1294 🔗

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8850565/Covid-death-toll-rises-150-nearly-double-weeks-increase.html “another grim milestone”. So all 160 died of Covid? Of course not -but we don’t get the with/aged 92 with numerous underlying health conditions/parachute failed to open do we?

192554 ▶▶ DRW, replying to arfurmo, 4, #964 of 1294 🔗

Nor that even hospitals and care homes are mass testing now, inflating the figures to keep the fear going.

192562 ▶▶ Alan P, replying to arfurmo, 6, #965 of 1294 🔗

And deaths from flu……. now all under Covid19

192883 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Alan P, #966 of 1294 🔗

Not sure that’s true…any evidence?

192576 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to arfurmo, 12, #967 of 1294 🔗

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/deaths (reported date)

08/10/2020      77

09/10/2020      87

10/10/2020      81

11/10/2020      65

12/10/2020      50

tiers introduced and then we get…

13/10/2020      143

14/10/2020      137

15/10/2020      138

16/10/2020      136

17/10/2020      150

Nothing suspicious looking there at all. *rolls eyes*

192581 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Ceriain, 5, #968 of 1294 🔗

Didn’t they say last week that they were going to combine the flu and covid stats?

Could this be the cause?

192603 ▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to John P, 7, #969 of 1294 🔗

The ONS said flu and covid would be in the same report in future. They didn’t suggest combining numbers.

Most sceptics, however, think it’s inevitable that they will.

At the moment everyone who gets admitted to hospital is tested for Covid, so all severe flu patients will be tested. All who test positive, who then go on to die (within 28 days), will be counted as a Covid death, even if it was the flu, or pneumonia, that actually killed them.

192615 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Ceriain, 3, #970 of 1294 🔗

As said – we have no idea of the actual incidence or role of Covid as a main, distinct infectious agent.

192867 ▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Ceriain, 1, #971 of 1294 🔗

COVID19 and influenza, have different ICD10 codes (99 for influenza and 100 for COVID19). They may report the COVID19 deaths wit hother respiratory diseases, but the statistics are always kept separate for analysis.

If you are admitted with influenza and are not positive for COVID19, you will be tested for influenza. If you are positive for influenza, you’ll be an ICD10/99 statistic.

192889 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Ceriain, #972 of 1294 🔗

As I often mention, it has been reported aged people who die of respiratory disease are found to have an average of 14 pathogens in their lungs. Covid 19 is probably settling into the ecosystem now and perhaps the average has risen to 15.

192680 ▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Ceriain, 2, #973 of 1294 🔗

Sorry to ask, but that jump of nearly 100 in a day and then a very flat week looks iffy. What’s the justification on that level of increase ?

192747 ▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Leemc23, #974 of 1294 🔗

I honestly have no idea, Lee.

192808 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Leemc23, 1, #975 of 1294 🔗

It’s a lie.

192703 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to arfurmo, 4, #976 of 1294 🔗

But the other 1500 or so deaths today weren’t grim at all. There were butterflies and flowers and angels singing from on high… But Covid, no, that’s REAL death, not fake like all those others.

192566 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 14, #977 of 1294 🔗

‘The greatest want of the world is the want of men, men who will not be bought or sold; men who in their inmost souls are true and honest; men who do not fear to call sin by its right name; men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole; men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.’ – Ellen G. White.

192592 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #978 of 1294 🔗

A few women of like calibre would not come amiss.

192595 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to annie, 11, #979 of 1294 🔗

Sunetra Gupta

192628 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to annie, 4, #980 of 1294 🔗

I think the author of that statement – a woman – would be using the word “men” in the same way as the universal “he”, which does include women.

192573 Marialta, replying to Marialta, 4, #981 of 1294 🔗

The Common Pass digital health passport is to be tried out next week at Heathrow on flights to Newark in USA. Soon no pass= no travel. In the Times

192589 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Marialta, 1, #982 of 1294 🔗

You mean the WEF and Rockefella passport.

192605 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to leggy, 3, #983 of 1294 🔗

Yes the incompetence theory is starting to look just like that.A theory

192727 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #984 of 1294 🔗

I doubt anyone thinks it’s just incompetence. For those who believe it mainly ends with our cabinet, it is personal and political cowardice (initially) followed by fear of being found out, liking for easy power. I think they know they are wrong now, in their hearts – the open question is to what extent they are colluding with each other to cover up the blunder (which would be a conspiracy). I can’t believe that none of them know it’s bollocks, but the capacity for humans to delude themselves is pretty large.

192753 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Julian, #985 of 1294 🔗

The incompetence theory is that they overreacted at the start and everything since is a exercise in arse covering.That is becoming more implausible by the day.
The truth is none of us know how,but out of their own mouths and actions they are using this to push for vaccines/digital passports.that much is fact.What are their further aims that is up for debate.

192792 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Julian, #986 of 1294 🔗

Right.

192807 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Julian, #987 of 1294 🔗

It must be, for the supposedly intelligent people who run universities to treat students the way they are doing.
Has nobody in the academic world got the guts to stand up and say it’s not only bollox, but criminal bollox?

192633 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Marialta, 1, #988 of 1294 🔗

What the vaccine is really for.

192583 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 14, #989 of 1294 🔗

As I understand it, this whole debacle is based on a PCR test which is not fit for purpose, whose inventor said was not to be used for diagnosis of infection and who also said that whatever was being looked for by the test would undoubtedly be found.

Results from this test are produced by different laboratories all over the world; using different machines, different assays, employing staff of varying abilities and experience, using a wide range of Ct values and hundreds of different brands of tests, each one looking for different things and being produced by a large number of pharmaceutical firms.

The results of this test are used to lockdown countries, destroy economies, deny sick people proper treatment and countless other atrocities.

If you use weighing scales in an enterprise, they have to be calibrated regularly, as do thermometers or any other kind of equipment involving weights or measures.
When it comes to the PCR test however, there is no standard against which to compare it. For a pregnancy test, for example, the gold standard is the pregnancy itself.

The entire world has been turned upside down by a test, that according to the virologist interviewed by the German lawyers gathering evidence for the court case against Christian Drosten (who rushed out the first test to send to China), could be set up by any half decent post graduate scientist. She described it as the “bread and butter” test for any laboratory.

I’m not a scientist, but is it beyond SAGE and the chief scientist in particular, to sort out “calibrating” a test which has affected us all in such a destructive manner, so that all laboratories are singing from the same hymn sheet?

192591 ▶▶ annie, replying to Margaret, 8, #990 of 1294 🔗

If this mob conducted pregnancy tests they would come up with 80% false positives.

192610 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Margaret, 2, #991 of 1294 🔗

“I’m not a scientist”

More so in the proper sense than Whitty or Vallance.

Fiddling with apparatus or figures isn’t the definition of ‘science’ – the adherence to certain rigorous principles in the pursuit of real knowledge.

192613 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Margaret, 1, #992 of 1294 🔗

What you say about the PCR test is very true, but it is the test’s very real unreliability and total unsuitability that make it such a useful tool for our bent politicians and their yes men scientists. These utterly corrupt people are very much part of Bill Gate’s globalist plan to rid the world of what cuddly Henry Kissinger calls the useless eaters. Judging by the number of masked zombies now scurrying about, Bill’s got an extra big job on his hands, though I don’t really doubt that his unlicensed, hardly tested and totally free of all liability vaccines will be well up to this mammoth task. Dark times are going to get a lot darker.

192620 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Margaret, #993 of 1294 🔗

It has been calibrated and it’s basically a very good test. But subject to misuse like anything else.

192623 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to guy153, 1, #994 of 1294 🔗

Perhaps calibrated was the wrong word to use. Would standardised be better-same assay, same Ct number, etc or isn’t that possible?

192662 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Margaret, 1, #995 of 1294 🔗

That would be an improvement, but still wouldn’t solve the problem of knowing whether the detected RNA had any relevance to infection and disease.

192757 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Margaret, 4, #996 of 1294 🔗

A molecular biologist who has spoken to a group I belong to says that the PCR would be an OK test if testing symptomatic people and if said symptomatic people test positive at fewer than 35 amplification cycles. Basically the lower the number of cycles it takes to get the florescent marker, the more likely it is the test is a true positive. The problem is one is never told how many cycles it took to get their “positive” test. Once you’re going up to 45 amplification cycles, as appears to be the case in our province, the false positive rate goes through the roof. Plus we’re testing a ton of asymptomatic people.

192834 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 3, #997 of 1294 🔗

Yes exactly. Only any use on people with symptoms and if it’s what’s causing the symptoms they’ll probably be positive at < 25 cycles. Using 45 cycles on asymptomatic people is just taking the piss.

192939 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Margaret, #998 of 1294 🔗

Yes, although if you are using it for diagnosis, it’s more helpful to know the actual number of cycles. It doesn’t have to be a yes/no, a doctor is smart enough to draw her own conclusions.

If you are just chaotically and hysterically testing people in carparks for no apparent reason like we are then yes a sane and standard Ct would definitely help!

192640 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to guy153, 3, #999 of 1294 🔗

The test is unfit for use in diagnosis, that was the view of the late Kary Mullis, who invented the PCR process for research purposes.

192663 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Rowan, #1000 of 1294 🔗

Why a down vote? That’s a true statement. Or have I been reading ‘fake news’?

192788 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #1001 of 1294 🔗

Agree, it’s bizarre. A 1% false positive equals an exceptionally good medical test. A 2% FPR is pretty good. The problem is that the test is being used for things it wasn’t designed for. There’s a nasty mood around here lately, where if someone doesn’t agree with your prejudices, you must vote them down. I won’t buy into it.

192688 ▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Rowan, 1, #1002 of 1294 🔗

Kary Mullis did indeed say that .

192864 ▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Mabel Cow, 1, #1003 of 1294 🔗

The PCR reaction came on a long way from the days when Kary would manually add polymerase and run a heat cycle that destroyed the enzyme, so you had to add more each time. Do that 42 times and one is amplifying noise. Do it 32 times in someone with symptoms and you confirm an infection.

192840 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Rowan, 1, #1004 of 1294 🔗

I don’t care what he said. Just because you invent something doesn’t mean you get to dictate the truth about it for all time. It is a useful diagnostic test. Anyway his remarks were made in the context of HIV whose relationship to AIDS is much more indirect– HIV damages your immune system and the symptoms of AIDS arise from other pathogens and cancers. At the time the dispute was about whether HIV caused AIDS not about whether HIV caused you to test PCR positive for HIV (it does).

192601 annie, replying to annie, 20, #1005 of 1294 🔗

Sometimes one just has to laugh.
Making up my online Tesco order, I decided that Strong Drink was required.
Every item of Strong Drink was flagged as follows:

“Due to Welsh Covid-19 regulations, this product is only available in deliveries before 10pm.”

Man, are the valiant Welsh going to whack that virus or what?!

192606 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to annie, 7, #1006 of 1294 🔗

Delivering after 10 could kill the driver, silly. 😉

192625 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to annie, 8, #1007 of 1294 🔗

So we still haven’t reached peak stupidity?

192678 ▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1008 of 1294 🔗

We reached that long ago.

192718 ▶▶ Steve, replying to annie, #1009 of 1294 🔗

Glad I don’t work for Tescos. We finish at 7pm at the moment (it was 9 a few weeks ago but rarely went much past 8).

192607 John P, replying to John P, -7, #1010 of 1294 🔗

I’m putting this up here from this morning. It seems that a hardcore of people here are not particularly interested in seeing Boris Johnson and his cabal in court as they believe (without a shred of evidence) that others are really running the show.

I had this comment and below, in capitals is my response:

John I don’t know why you are so obsessed with stopping at Johnson? This has been the problem for the last 100 years we have allowed politicians to cover up the guys who are truly pulling the strings.

BECAUSE HE IS IN FUCKING CHARGE. NOBODY ELSE !

It is so frustrating having to deal with this stupidity.

Or is it deliberate? Are you really on his side and trying to deflect attention away from him so that he and his government gets off scot free?

Is that your game you lot?

192614 ▶▶ Ossettian, replying to John P, 10, #1011 of 1294 🔗

Right.

Pretty much the same policieas were put in place pretty much everywhere at pretty much the same time using pretty much the same language.

But it’s all down to Johnson.

192622 ▶▶▶ Luckyluke1976, replying to Ossettian, 11, #1012 of 1294 🔗

I think the truth is in the middle. I agree with you, left and right, dictatorships and “democracies”, developed or poor, almost everybody did the same lockdowns, used the same crap language etc. So there is a global dimension to it, undoubtedly. But there are exceptions, Sweden, Belarus, Tanzania, Brazil and a few others. In this, I agree with John P. , Boris is in charge and could have been the hero of Britain. But he chose instead to be just a stooge and thus will go down in history as the worst ever prime minister.

192626 ▶▶▶▶ Ossettian, replying to Luckyluke1976, 5, #1013 of 1294 🔗

I’m not saying he shouldn’t be blamed: I’d happily see him and the rest of the Cabinet executed.

But it’s like blaming concentration camp administrators rather than the architects of the concentration camp policy.,

192645 ▶▶▶▶▶ Luckyluke1976, replying to Ossettian, 2, #1014 of 1294 🔗

Make no mistake, the “architects’ ” time will come, sooner or later. Their occult power is far reaching, however there were people that opposed them, Bolsonaro, Tegnell, Lukashenko, Khan, Putin, Trump to an extent and others. It takes balls and determination to do that, and Boris lacks both. So before we reach the puppeteers, let’s make it very clear to the puppets that acquiescence has a price, and it might be deadly in the end.

192657 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Luckyluke1976, #1015 of 1294 🔗

That’s Khan as in Imran I trust….

192660 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Luckyluke1976, replying to Yawnyaman, 2, #1016 of 1294 🔗

I actually said it takes balls, so that automatically rules out Sadiq. But yes, Imran.

192798 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Ossettian, #1017 of 1294 🔗

I would do exactly that.
Theoretical concentration camps don’t kill anybody.
Real ones do.

192724 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Ossettian, #1018 of 1294 🔗

Ultimately – yes. It needn’t have been so.

192689 ▶▶ calchas, replying to John P, 1, #1019 of 1294 🔗

‘Boris Johnson and his cabal in court

Merkel and her cabal in court

Macron and his cabal in court

Rutte and his cabal incourt

Conte and his cabal in court
………
……….

You get the idea.

192721 ▶▶ Julian, replying to John P, 2, #1020 of 1294 🔗

Dear John P

We’re all on the same side

I doubt many/any on here would pardon Johnson

Opinions differ as to who else is giving/receiving orders – we can sort that out later (FWIW I tend to agree more with your view than others, but TBH am more focused on how best we can fight against the madness

Let’s try to stay united

192722 ▶▶ RickH, replying to John P, 1, #1021 of 1294 🔗

You’re right. There are a few posters who seek to divert attention from the obvious suspects and try to erect a ‘communist’ or ‘socialist’ plot fantasy.

But hey-ho – denial, cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias were always human traits.

192748 ▶▶ Nope, replying to John P, 4, #1022 of 1294 🔗

Christ! – when will you stop carping on about this, everyday for at least the last half a week.
It looks increasingly likely that there’s more to this than just government incompetence.
Nobody is saying the existence of conspiracy outside of just the government absolves that walking bag of rotting excrement Pfeffel and all the rest of them from responsibility for their actions, traitors get the rope, but they aren’t the only ones.
Can we move on now please!

192826 ▶▶ James, replying to John P, #1023 of 1294 🔗

I would be very pleased if Boris and his sidekicks were charged and and found to have committed treason . However, if we do not find out who is really behind this it will just happen again. I really do no not think Boris and his chums have the wit to organise all this. It all seems to have been very carefully planned.

192611 Nic, replying to Nic, 4, #1024 of 1294 🔗

How on earth is this going to end ,how many lockdowns can the economy stand before it dies

192644 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Nic, 3, #1025 of 1294 🔗

I think the circuit breaker should do it.
Some good news,a lot of venues in London operating a very lax admission policy.

192652 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #1026 of 1294 🔗

I think the circuit breaker should do it.

Sarcasm, I hope. 😉

192719 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Ceriain, 1, #1027 of 1294 🔗

Yes a heavy dose.Im watching my livelihood go down the drain as we speak

192742 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #1028 of 1294 🔗

Sorry to hear that. 🙁

192831 ▶▶▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #1029 of 1294 🔗

Sorry to hear. Dirty b$stards the lot of them.

192658 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Nic, 2, #1030 of 1294 🔗

10 REPEAT
20 LOCKDOWN
30 UNTIL economy_totally_fucked() = TRUE

192677 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to captainbeefheart, 1, #1031 of 1294 🔗

Yep – I just wonder what comes next!

192912 ▶▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to IanE, #1032 of 1294 🔗

40 MAKE_THEM_BEG

192959 ▶▶▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to captainbeefheart, #1033 of 1294 🔗

357 GET_FRIED_ALIVE_IN_THE_ELECTRIC_CHAIR

192734 ▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to captainbeefheart, 1, #1034 of 1294 🔗

You mean…the lockdowns will increase exponentially!!!

192913 ▶▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to thinkaboutit, #1035 of 1294 🔗

Big Ohh to the power of infinity minus 1

192817 ▶▶ James, replying to Nic, #1037 of 1294 🔗

The economy is already broken. It is held together by sticky tape.

192855 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Nic, 1, #1038 of 1294 🔗

The economy can carry indefinitely as we can see from the perfectly stocked shelves.

It’s our freedom loving democracy that cannot survive this.

192617 Mabel Cow, replying to Mabel Cow, 19, #1039 of 1294 🔗

Forget donor cards, we need the newly-launched DNA card :

192648 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Mabel Cow, 3, #1040 of 1294 🔗

I love it!

192624 Eddie, replying to Eddie, 6, #1041 of 1294 🔗

Media Bear killing it yet again!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3Z-_RmzxYM

I can’t believe there was actually a press conference asking residents to wear masks in their own homes…beyond comprehension even in these times!

192993 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Eddie, #1042 of 1294 🔗

California has some seriously weird folk …

192629 John P, replying to John P, -14, #1043 of 1294 🔗

If people here don’t believe that Boris Johnson is in charge of this country then what hope is there?

I’ve asked this question before. Do you think that someone else was running Nazi Germany? Do you think Hitler wasn’t really in charge there?

I don’t know, pick your historical period.

The Norman Conquest 1066. Maybe William I wasn’t really the king then?

Or how about the Battle of Bosworth? Not really won by Henry Tudor (VII)?

What about Henry VIII’s reformation? All bollocks is it?

Boris Johnson is the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. He is in charge. I shouldn’t really have to keep repeating this should I?

This morning I tried to be polite about this and appeal to your common sense. But no, you persist with your evidence free fantasies about Gates.

By the way. We don’t (apparently still don’t) routinely give children the chickenpox vaccine. There is one apparently.

“In the UK as of 2014, the vaccine is only recommended in people who are particularly vulnerable to chickenpox. This is to keep the virus in circulation thereby exposing the population to the virus at an early age, when it is less harmful, and to reduce the occurrence of shingles in those who have already had chickenpox by repeated exposure to the virus later in life.”

Source wikipedia.

Smells like herd immunity.

Billy must have cocked up there mustn’t he?

192639 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to John P, 20, #1044 of 1294 🔗

why are you misrepresenting people on here.Being part of a global conspiracy doesn’t let Johnson off the hook and I don’t see anyone saying that

192672 ▶▶ calchas, replying to John P, 5, #1045 of 1294 🔗

“Do you think Hitler wasn’t really in charge there?”

Read:

‘Conjuring Hitler’ by Giacomo Preparata

‘Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler’ by Antony Sutton

“Who Financed Hitler’ by James and Suzanne Pool

192804 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to calchas, #1046 of 1294 🔗

Thanks for those – gonna check them out. If the bloody library remains open…

192847 ▶▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Mr Dee, #1047 of 1294 🔗

You’ll have to buy them. They are old books and likely out of print by now.

192794 ▶▶ Lili, replying to John P, -1, #1049 of 1294 🔗

You again. Why don’t you pi55 off. You’re not wanted here.

192797 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Lili, 4, #1050 of 1294 🔗

Lili, please don’t be like that. Everyone’s entitled to their opinion here. If you don’t like what John said simply give him a downvote and leave it at that. John’s more than welcome here.

192850 ▶▶ djaustin, replying to John P, #1051 of 1294 🔗

Johnson owns this mess. Regardless of the advice provided, the uncertainties in the science. Advisors advise, ministers decide. There is no place for tokenism (10 pm curfews). The big questions matter – how do you keep schools open and infections down to manageable levels? How do you test the 20% most likely to be affected or spread and then protect the vulnerable?

There are two chickenpox vaccines. They are really used for a booster to prevent shingles in the elderly and are VERY effective in prevention. About 1/10 children will reach adulthood chickenpox-free. a catchup vaccine for these would be an effective policy.

192918 ▶▶ wat tyler, replying to John P, 3, #1052 of 1294 🔗

Johnson is 100% responsible .He is a cowardly and useless human being who when the chips were down caved in to the media and social media .Ever since the start of this his every u turn and decision has been a calculation of what he believes is public opinion .The problem for him now is people are much more evenly split and like the rabbit in the headlights he don’t know which side of the road to run to. Ask yourself a question if a hidden hand was guiding Johnson why has he changed course week in and week out ?. Sad to say the truth is boring ,we elected a chancer and a fantasist instead of a leader .

192956 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to John P, #1053 of 1294 🔗

You’re being silly now. We all know that Bozo is prime minister, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t working to somebody else’s agenda and as such his actions may well be treasonable. Is that simple concept just too hard for you to grasp. As for Hitler, William and Henry, they are of course, each and all, men of straw.

192634 captainbeefheart, replying to captainbeefheart, 5, #1054 of 1294 🔗

It’s great the way The Guardian isn’t allowing any comments on anything Rona-related, and their main “opinion” piece is some bollocks about veggie burgers. Then a bit more “DON’T FORGET BREXIT!” opinion pieces.

Moderators are probably having a day off (or the moderation algorithm is fucked, one of the two)

192643 ▶▶ NappyFace, replying to captainbeefheart, 10, #1055 of 1294 🔗

When they did allow comments, mine kept getting deleted.

My comments weren’t offensive or inaccurate – simply they didn’t agree with the drivel the Guardian was pushing about Covid.

I cancelled my membership as I won’t be a part of their policy of spreading lies, misery, starvation and death.

They are contributing to a humanitarian disaster, in full knowledge of what they are doing.

192647 ▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to NappyFace, 3, #1056 of 1294 🔗

Same here, they let me back in now and again and some get on there, but you really have to “behave yourself” and not say anything controversial (i.e. nothing)

192669 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to NappyFace, 7, #1057 of 1294 🔗

The Groan has been a censored establishment billboard for a number of years.

Although there’s a few good journalists, they’re just cover for the enterprise of pushing certain editorial lines that have obviously come from suspicious sources.

The days of it as an independent, sometimes contrarian, organ are long gone.

192635 NappyFace, replying to NappyFace, 24, #1058 of 1294 🔗

Very interesting quote I’ve only just come across. Seems particularly relevant:

“Political correctness is communist propaganda writ small. In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, not to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is in some small way to become evil oneself. One’s standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to.”

Theodore Dalrymple

192638 ▶▶ Jules, replying to NappyFace, 4, #1059 of 1294 🔗

Trauma through injustice.

192642 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to NappyFace, 8, #1060 of 1294 🔗

That is exactly what is being done to us through all these Covid press conferences and addresses to the nation. The lies are deliberately blatant, intended primarily to humiliate the audience. I made that point last night.

192746 ▶▶ Alice, replying to NappyFace, #1061 of 1294 🔗

“Political correctness” is just a euphemism for “neo-marxism”

192877 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to NappyFace, #1062 of 1294 🔗

I think this does rather describe equality training in the workplace. Anyone foolish enough to speak their mind in such training sessions would soon be humiliated.

192637 PompeyJunglist, replying to PompeyJunglist, 14, #1063 of 1294 🔗

Instead of learning from the Swine Flu panic of 2009, the West has repeated the same mistakes to the power of ten and trashed the World economy.

They’re never going to own that, I think we’re just watching arse covering in action. Our lives don’t matter, what’s important is they never have to admit culpability for the carnage that’s coming.

I’ve read a lot of conspiracy theories about the WEF’s ‘Great Reset’, EU health passports or sticking microchips in everyone’s mandatory vaccine. I don’t think there’s anything in them to be honest. These are just cases of global bodies with long standing aims suddenly making a lot of noise because the Covid crisis has presented them with a chance to make strides they thought would take decades to achieve. There was no conspiracy to unleash a disease and push one of these things through, just people with aims determined not to let a good crisis go to waste. Nothing new under the Sun.

192646 ▶▶ leggy, replying to PompeyJunglist, 11, #1064 of 1294 🔗

WEF have been influencing our government for years, you’ve only just noticed though. https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-4th-industrial-revolution

192702 ▶▶▶ PompeyJunglist, replying to leggy, 6, #1065 of 1294 🔗

That’s exactly the point I’m making lol.

These supranational groups, their aims and influence, have been well documented for years.

They’re trying to exploit a crisis. That’s hardly a surprise or a grand conspiracy.

192801 ▶▶▶▶ Arkansas, replying to PompeyJunglist, 9, #1066 of 1294 🔗

They’re trying to exploit a crisis. That’s hardly a surprise or a grand conspiracy.

The “conspiracy” element would be in the creating of agreements between governments, corporations and those supranational groups, rather than the goals themselves. It doesn’t much matter that the groups have been around for a long time and have put out publications laying out their vision.

If those supranational groups exploit a crisis and get governments onside (e.g. Boris and “Build Back better”) without those governments being transparent about those agreements having taken place and what the content of those agreements are, then that is the conspiracy. Not the groups and their ideas as such.

If lots of countries had entered into such unpublicised agreements, that would indeed be a “grand conspiracy”, if not exactly a “surprise” to people who had been following, say, WHO and WEF output over the years.

Similarly, vaccine companies lobbying (or otherwise influencing) governments to remove restrictions on vaccine testing, validation and licensing would and could also be a conspiracy. It wouldn’t matter whether vaccine companies had been open about wanting those changes for years previously and were now “trying to exploit a crisis”; it’s the secret agreements that matters. (This year has of course been full of secret agreements, as regards payments to companies, and indeed payments to councils and suchlike.)

192806 ▶▶▶▶▶ James, replying to Arkansas, 2, #1067 of 1294 🔗

Agreed.

192822 ▶▶▶▶▶ PompeyJunglist, replying to Arkansas, 2, #1068 of 1294 🔗

Thank you for a decent reply.

192714 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to PompeyJunglist, 9, #1069 of 1294 🔗

Whether it was caused deliberately or a natural occurrence who knows,but to deny there is a massive conspiracy now is to be very naive.
A vaccine is now government policy.
Digital/identity passports are happening this week at Heathrow.
How deaf dumb and blind do people need to be.
Also to believe this is all arse covering is a conspiracy theory in itself.

192716 ▶▶▶ PompeyJunglist, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 4, #1070 of 1294 🔗

Vaccine was policy all over Europe with swine flu too.

Instead of learning from our mistakes we’ve simply taken them to a new stratosphere.

I’m a long way from being convinced I’m watching anything more than callous self interest and arse covering.

But I’m open to changing my mind of course.

192720 ▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to PompeyJunglist, 5, #1071 of 1294 🔗

The very term ‘Conspiracy Theory’ was invented to cover up their aims. When you say this, “I’ve read a lot of conspiracy theories about the WEF’s ‘Great Reset’, EU health passports or sticking microchips in everyone’s mandatory vaccine.” what actually do you mean. Let’s separate out the items:
(1) that the Great Reset is make-believe? that’s well-documented, surely?
(2) EU health passports are make-believe? They have them in China and are being introduced here, is that not so?
(3) Chips in vaccines? Well, I don’t know, but I wouldn’t want to dismiss the possibility out of hand.

192731 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Rosie, 2, #1072 of 1294 🔗

The chip isn’t in the vaccine.First you will have a digital passport,but because there are ways around that eventually you will have a tattoo embedded in your arm which has your vaccine history and can be scanned wherever you go.
By the way Bill Gates is heavily involved in this technology

192787 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 3, #1073 of 1294 🔗

https://www.sciencealert.com/an-invisible-quantum-dot-tattoo-is-being-suggested-to-id-vaccinated-kids

Quantum dot digital tattoo. Technology is already here. Above article is from December 2019, so before the coronapanic. This is not a conspiracy theory. Scientific fact.

192849 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #1074 of 1294 🔗

It’s already in use for more innocent-seeeming purposes, like paying for stuff.

192745 ▶▶▶▶▶ PompeyJunglist, replying to Rosie, 5, #1075 of 1294 🔗

1 and 2 have been well documented for years. Like you I wouldn’t rule 3 out.

Of course the proponents of 1 and 2 are trying to exploit the crisis. It would be a surprise if they weren’t.

192725 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to PompeyJunglist, 3, #1076 of 1294 🔗

Vaccine and identity passport definitely wasn’t nor was continual lockdown.
It takes a leap of faith to believe every government was incompetent in exactly the same way.Nor was a dodgy testing regime which is being used to lockdown whole areas leading to destruction of whole swathes of our economy.

192749 ▶▶▶▶▶ PompeyJunglist, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #1077 of 1294 🔗

It’s not much of a leap of faith when it’s happened before at least once this century, cajoled by a hysterical and inept WHO.

192766 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to PompeyJunglist, 4, #1078 of 1294 🔗

Control the WHO and you control the response.The biggest donors to the WHO are Bill Gates and China.
Do you not even question Gates role in all this.He has monetary links to all the main players in this.He has been mentioned in a few speeches by our own prime minister
Also the government have had many opportunities to roll back from this and could have quite easily spun a victory out of it but instead have doubled down each time

192846 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Francis, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 4, #1079 of 1294 🔗

It’s a tiny point I know, but it was odd that Johnson pronounced the word ‘vaccine’ in the US way (stress on the second syllable) the first time he used it in the 16 October ‘address to the nation’. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDrARcYiHwk (around 5.21).

He got it right afterwards, but it does suggest he might have been in discussion on the subject of vaccines with someone who was a) from the United States and b) important enough for Johnson to mirror his/her pronunciation…

192786 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ donnydarko, replying to PompeyJunglist, -4, #1080 of 1294 🔗

SHILL

192824 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ PompeyJunglist, replying to donnydarko, #1081 of 1294 🔗

You muppet, we both want this BS to end.

192898 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to PompeyJunglist, 2, #1082 of 1294 🔗

Listen we need to all find some kind of unity where we agree we can disagree .I’m like you and am against the conspiracy stuff but the best thing to do is just ignore it because you won’t change their minds . Try to find people who you can work with and put the cause of ending lockdown first and we will move things forward .

192848 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to PompeyJunglist, #1083 of 1294 🔗

I’m open to changing my mind

Good! So watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O31AfWoBfaI

192651 Salopian, replying to Salopian, 45, #1084 of 1294 🔗

Travelling back to Shropshire from a very heartening anti lockdown march in London to fight for freedom .lots of support from the public including bus and taxi drivers
Good to see such a good mix of brave decent folk prepared to stand up against this insanity .
I urge all readers of this site to get out and get involved .

192655 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Salopian, 8, #1085 of 1294 🔗

Well done for turning out.

I was there in spirit (watched the live stream in between babysitting)

192686 ▶▶ Hoppy Uniatz, replying to Salopian, 6, #1086 of 1294 🔗

Yes that black bus driver lady was brilliant wasn’t she!

192782 ▶▶▶ Salopian, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 8, #1087 of 1294 🔗

She was :contrary to narrative of terrified workers
The fact is empty buses and trains =job losses

192654 DRW, replying to DRW, 26, #1089 of 1294 🔗

One of the most infuriating things is how the oVeRwHeLmEd NHS meme is being repeatedly spouted again, even with the reality back in Spring, vastly improved knowledge and practices, and capacity massively increased from the Nightingale facilities and skeleton services. It’s like nothing else is working so they’re just playing the national religion card again.

Also, for many years my BBC regional “News” loved the annual winter hospital flu/cold chaos. Yet the sheep won’t remember that we never Protected The NHS every year for those.

192681 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to DRW, 12, #1090 of 1294 🔗

It’s not a service for most of us anymore. My GP practice is closed to the public. You have to go on line and get an ‘e- consultation’. How will that work with older patients? Yet they’re paid the same and will no doubt play the same record how they’re overrun. More like NAS – National Avoidance Service .

192769 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Telpin, 1, #1091 of 1294 🔗

Wonder how they are coping in Germany or any other European country without an NHS to save.

192845 ▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Telpin, 4, #1092 of 1294 🔗

NHS = No Health Service

192683 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to DRW, 15, #1093 of 1294 🔗

Even if they were overwhelmed currently, there would be no excuse since they’ve had all summer to prepare. Apparently they did have plans in place, but the govt told them not to bother because the world-beating track and trace system would sort it all out and prevent a second wave.

Not sure they are bothering with the Nightingales any more. Some are being dismantled. The remaining ones can only be used for sedated and intubated patients (and there aren’t many of those) because no one bothered to equip them with enough toilets.

But it’s all the public’s fault for being human and alive so back into lockdown we go.

192675 StevieH, replying to StevieH, 10, #1095 of 1294 🔗

The Mayor of Liverpool’s elder brother has sadly passed away “from Covid”. We are not told how old he was, or if he had any co-morbidities. We are, however, enjoined to watch some Covid video porn to see how bad it is.

192687 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to StevieH, 1, #1096 of 1294 🔗

Haven’t watched any videos, but DM reported he was 70.

192828 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Charlie Blue, 3, #1097 of 1294 🔗

Was he as fat as his brother?

193000 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1098 of 1294 🔗

The question had to be asked! Given all photos have been censored, the answer must be “yes and the rest”. We are constantly told we are in a national emergency and yet the government doesn’t make clear obesity is a serious risk and does not tell the obese to shield.

192692 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to StevieH, 3, #1099 of 1294 🔗

He was 70, apparently. Looking at a photo in The Mail, he does not look well – suggest he had cancer?

192739 ▶▶▶ Alice, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #1100 of 1294 🔗

Any honest journalist would have added this piece of information…

Sad to see that someone’s death is used as a propaganda weapon.

192741 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1101 of 1294 🔗

I think it was another brother – Bill – who has just died.

192751 ▶▶▶▶ Alice, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1102 of 1294 🔗

I’m sorry, I thought it was the same person.

192755 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to Alice, #1103 of 1294 🔗

Sorry my fault!

192759 ▶▶ RickH, replying to StevieH, 3, #1104 of 1294 🔗

Pure, classic propaganda.

Now … how about some real insight into those thousands deliberately deprived of treatment?

This is why I can never forgive Starmer. He should be piling into this unnecessary destruction of the wider NHS.

Continually.

192793 ▶▶ annie, replying to StevieH, 4, #1105 of 1294 🔗

I’m not sad about it. Why should I be?

192694 bucky99, replying to bucky99, 6, #1106 of 1294 🔗

And now the police are getting the details of all those who are told to self isolate through track & trace. Yay!

Anyone fancy a test???

192700 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to bucky99, #1107 of 1294 🔗

Where’s it reported, Bucky?

192705 ▶▶▶ bucky99, replying to Charlie Blue, #1108 of 1294 🔗

Sky news.

192706 ▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to bucky99, 1, #1109 of 1294 🔗

Thanks!

192708 ▶▶▶▶ bucky99, replying to bucky99, 1, #1110 of 1294 🔗

Headline

192776 ▶▶▶▶▶ theanalyst, replying to bucky99, 5, #1111 of 1294 🔗

Thanks – this just prompted me to delete the app again after the last pub visit…..but to give them credit the pubs around here seem to have stopped checking as they know it all bollo%ks and no matter how hard they try Alexander Johnson will try and shut them down anyway.

192711 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to bucky99, 2, #1113 of 1294 🔗

The police have been told not to download it!!

192715 ▶▶▶ bucky99, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #1114 of 1294 🔗

This is to police those told to self isolate. All kinds of wrong.

192729 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to bucky99, 7, #1115 of 1294 🔗

Already happening.

MIL just back from Spain; lives in Scotland.

Email from Krankie’s Nazi Party Scots Gov informs her that T&T will call to check she is self-isolating. If they fail to get an answer after 3 calls, they will pass the details to police who will then knock at her door.

192738 ▶▶▶ bucky99, replying to Ceriain, 4, #1116 of 1294 🔗

“I was tucked up in bed, too ill to get to the door, guv!”

192743 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Ceriain, 3, #1117 of 1294 🔗

I’m sure the police will be delighted to be tied up on wild goose chases.

192768 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to RickH, 2, #1118 of 1294 🔗

I’m sure a bit of aversion therapy will do them good.
Need to organise a buch of people to trigger the Stazi alarm, arange a police visit to the person too ill to get to the phone ” wot me? officer”
Enough of them and Plod will effectively give up.

192836 ▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Ceriain, 1, #1119 of 1294 🔗

Somebody emailed her and called her a Nazi – he was arrested.

192876 ▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Londo Mollari, 1, #1120 of 1294 🔗

I know; I’m really worried now that I typed that. 😉

192999 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Ceriain, 2, #1121 of 1294 🔗

Given the SNP welcomes both nationalists and socialists I think you have the perfect ready-made legal defence.

192789 ▶▶ annie, replying to bucky99, 3, #1122 of 1294 🔗

And when I remember that two years ago, a local paper was forbidden to publish the names of child prizewinners from the local school because it allegedly contravened the data protection act…

192827 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to bucky99, 3, #1123 of 1294 🔗

Hopefully, Whitty will be right (for once):

Adding to this, the Health Service Journal (HSJ) reported on Saturday that the office of England’s chief medical officer Chris Whitty was now concerned that police access to data could deter people from getting tested altogether.”

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-police-granted-access-to-details-of-people-told-to-self-isolate-by-test-and-trace-12106988

192833 ▶▶▶ bucky99, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #1124 of 1294 🔗

If only people had the sense…

192695 James Bertram, 1, #1125 of 1294 🔗

Thought some of you might enjoy this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaBWLsZ-bfI&list=PLJiBoXYJ0Jzmw8Ny_NNAEgDY61ThD8JVh&index=7

Steppenwolf, one of my first LPs – still as good as ever.

192704 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 6, #1126 of 1294 🔗

Another country with politicians in charge of an effective response in the first wave,Hungary and Victor Orban. They are all the same.Johnson, Macron, Merkel, Orban, Nethanyanou. Generals losing the war with Mother Nature with only costs and no benefits. Test ,Track and trace how do you do that with thousands of cases and 10 times more infected for each case?

192735 ▶▶ TJN, replying to swedenborg, 7, #1127 of 1294 🔗

losing the war with Mother Nature with only costs and no benefits

Great way of putting it.

192750 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, 6, #1128 of 1294 🔗

Not so much ‘losing a war’ as boxing with shadows.

It’s so f.ing ridiculous as to be beyond satire.

192784 ▶▶ matt, replying to swedenborg, 5, #1129 of 1294 🔗

“Test ,Track and trace how do you do that with thousands of cases and 10 times more infected for each case?”

You don’t, of course. It’s a nonsense

192821 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, 2, #1130 of 1294 🔗

Ah but kerrrrrrching!!

192799 ▶▶ Nic, replying to swedenborg, #1131 of 1294 🔗

And millions that dont officially exist

192843 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to swedenborg, 3, #1132 of 1294 🔗

The Slovak PM has just announced that they plan to test the entire population in a couple of weeks – in a single day!!! And then do it again a week later! He hasn’t decided yet if it is going to be mandatory (perhaps it isn’t legal). They have sourced enough 20 minute tests for the entire population.

Such a stupid idea – the number of false positives will be immense. Also, what are they going to do if someone gets a positive? Get the bus home? I don’t think so, it’ll be off to the gulag. And if there is actually any real virus going around, isn’t this the perfect way to spread it?

https://www.tvnoviny.sk/koronavirus/2010519_matovic-chce-pretestovat-cele-slovensko-prve-statisice-ludi-pridu-na-rad-na-dusicky (Slovak)

192865 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to TheBluePill, 3, #1133 of 1294 🔗

Slovakia’s own project moonshit.

192885 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to TheBluePill, 4, #1134 of 1294 🔗

And we thought that the only common sense in Europe was in eastern Europe

192707 Dan Clarke, 16, #1135 of 1294 🔗

450 people died today from Cancer, the DM is making a meal, however sad for the family, of the councillers brother who apparently died from Covid or Coronavirus as it calls it now. It is all sickening how the propaganda goes on and on.

192728 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 6, #1136 of 1294 🔗
192763 ▶▶ theanalyst, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1137 of 1294 🔗

Good stuff! Thanks again swedenborg.

192778 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1138 of 1294 🔗

Brilliant; thanks you.

192737 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 28, #1139 of 1294 🔗

The Wild High Peak on Saturday afternoon: Drizzly and cold. A bit of outdoor nappy-wearing but rather less than usual. No swerving, nearly everyone on our 2.5-mile walk to the shops and back was very friendly. Nice discussion with maskless shop-worker in Coop. 3 other customers,all muzzled. One woman was drifting round outside in a Princess Leia frock and a horrible black mask. We muttered ‘what’s she come as?’ to each other and I confess I did call out ‘Get some oxygen’ to a couple of outdoor zombies.

Then we heard singing. Singing! To our amazement, a pub was hosting a live band. They were singing Runaway very slowly (!) But singing. We should have gone in to check how on earth they were managing to do this but we were in a rush. We’ll check again next week.

Rushed to the hairdresser. The woman in front of us had no mask. She’s a teacher at the local school and a full-on sceptic, like the hairdresser who wears a visor, reluctantly. The teacher said a colleague had tested positive at the school and is staying off. We asked if she was ill; she said she thinks she’s ‘pretending to be’ i.e. describing what sound like mild cold symptoms to the scorn of her colleagues. We all agreed the ‘situation’ is sending us all loopy and we all admitted to drinking more than we used to.

AlanG said he’d just seen a young boy aged about 8 or 9 running down our road in a big mask. We all agreed it’s child abuse and the parents are probably mentally ill.

Hair all done, the next customer was a young woman. No mask.

Passed by a cafe to book in for breakfast in a few days, in sh’Allah . We reminded the owner we’re mask-exempt and his response was to laugh and say ‘No problem there.’ Meanwhile 2 millennials were scanning the app and dutifully muzzling-up just to order their food at a chilly outside table. We’ve just read on Health Service Journal that those notified by the app will be contacted regularly to make sure they self-isolate. So much for ‘anonymous’! Their information will also be handed to the cops if there’s a suspicion that they are not doing so. The NHS has been required to share all our health data with anyone ‘official’ who asks for it since the beginning of the ’emergency powers’. (Data Protection is no more.)

So good luck you thick, moronic, obedient, compliant, millennial twats and enjoy your enforced holiday, courtesy of the regime. MW

192914 ▶▶ Edward, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #1140 of 1294 🔗

Could be a coincidence, but I’ve been getting occasional junk phone calls on my mobile since honestly giving my phone number for T&T at a venue a couple of weeks ago. (I don’t have the app and have no intention of ever getting it.)

192971 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Edward, #1141 of 1294 🔗

We’ve heard that T&T data is being sold on (surprise, surprise); people have reported on this on earlier threads. MW

192740 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 7, #1142 of 1294 🔗

I suspect there is a divide here between those who have worked in the public sector and those who have not.

For those who have worked in the public sector, the incompetence and the manipulation will resonate

192756 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tim Bidie, 6, #1143 of 1294 🔗

Me and Mr TT have worked in both. Both of us were dumbfounded by what constitutes a day’s work. Of course, there are many exceptions and some very hard-working people in the public sector just as there are useless lazy types in the private sector. Yes, there is a private sector chumocracy visible in this crisis – Dido Harding to name but one – but the public sector we experienced is awash with nepotism, incompetence and what constitutes low-level everyday corruption.

192762 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 7, #1144 of 1294 🔗

Same here. And the uniformity of the bullshit and weasel words in local authorities and NHS trusts, whichever political party dominates locally, makes it very easy for me to believe that ‘leaders’ across the world are very likely to be simply copying each others homework.

192771 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Tim Bidie, 6, #1145 of 1294 🔗

Mr Bart and I have worked in the public sector – it was an appalling experience. Don’t get me wrong, we did encounter wonderful and hard working people but the staggering amount of waste, incompetence and rigidity was shocking.

192779 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tim Bidie, #1146 of 1294 🔗

I’ve worked in both, and the only divide is between resentful axe-grinders, and those in touch with reality.

I can’t be arsed with it – although grinding the axe does tend to create a litmus test of whether views have substance or not.

The idea of profound differences between workers in the two sectors is usually just a projection of personal problems.

192791 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to RickH, 3, #1147 of 1294 🔗

I certainly don’t believe there is a profound difference between individual workers, but there will often be a difference in culture and frames of reference. Behaviour and decisions that will drive a private enterprise into the ground do not have the same implications in the public sector.

192785 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Tim Bidie, #1148 of 1294 🔗

Hear hear. In addition to having worked in the public sector, both my Dad and my maternal grandfather were career civil servants. I am well versed in their ways and methods.

192820 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Tim Bidie, #1149 of 1294 🔗

I worked in it the past year and I enjoyed it until March, although I was regularly annoyed by strange practices, obvious groupthink, and the generally very slow pace of things. One team only actually worked one week a month!
After that it just became very painful, especially with all the zealotry and propaganda. Don’t feel like going into it tonight. I have many feelings but I think it’s mainly chronic disappointment.

192842 ▶▶▶ Alan P, replying to DRW, #1150 of 1294 🔗

Worked in public, private and charity sectors. You can’t compare as each company, department, etc all have their own cultures and peccadilloes.

Too lazy to tar all public sector with a single brush.

192861 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Alan P, #1151 of 1294 🔗

Indeed, I suspect there would be quite a different tune from places with less LD ‘winner’ types. Not that these are all zealots, but it’s the most typical demographic.

192760 Nessimmersion, replying to Nessimmersion, 5, #1152 of 1294 🔗

Masks,
I’d encourage anyone interested in problems caused by mask wearing to look at the link below:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/344661022_Masks_false_safety_and_real_dangers_Part_2_Microbial_challenges_from_masks

192783 ▶▶ annie, replying to Nessimmersion, 7, #1153 of 1294 🔗

Quote:

“Compiling statistical and scientific evidence from these subjects alone should help equip any individual with adequate information on risks and benefits when choosing whether to wear a mask.”

Choosing?

192809 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, 9, #1154 of 1294 🔗

I’ve chosen not to!

192975 ▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to annie, 5, #1155 of 1294 🔗

Yes! I choose every day not to wear a mask. I also choose every day to ignore and defy the law. I do not consent. I do not comply. Increasingly, other people’s default respect for the law strikes me as laughably quaint, an old-time custom akin to water-divining or throwing salt over one’s shoulder for luck.

192765 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 6, #1156 of 1294 🔗

OK I know that for good reason many on this site feel that this whole pantomime has moved beyond statistics but nonetheless stats are fired at us and I feel we need to keep some idea of what is actually going on. And so to my curmugeonly grumpy old man rant; we are now regularly given scare figures on hospital admissions with no data on hospital discharges! Hospitals are not the Hotel California people can and do get well and go home.

Looking at NHS England covid stats for the last 7 days for which records are available;
Total admissions 4613
Number of cases in hospital increased from 3225 to 4814 increase of 1589
Total deaths for last 7 days 479
(I know analysis of deaths should be around 3 weeks after admissions but there is only so much number crunching I can do!)
That leaves a discrepancy in the figures of 2545 in the absence of any other explanation this figure must be discharges i.e. 364 covid discharges per day.

This seems to typify the undenible propoganda war being waged in support of the lock-down pantomime, lurid reports of hospital admissions with no indication of counterbalancing discharges.

192815 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Steve Martindale, #1157 of 1294 🔗

many on this site feel that this whole pantomime has moved beyond statistics”

Data is the core of the whole argument. Without it, there’s sweet f.a.

192890 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RickH, 2, #1158 of 1294 🔗

Can the use of Build Back Better be described as data? It’s certainly a dead giveaway.
You can play with data, ie numbers, to your heart’s content but, other than the casedemic, the PsyOp is mostly verbal.

192946 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to RickH, 2, #1159 of 1294 🔗

You’ve only got to watch Bozo blustering through one of his far too announcements and you will know for certain that he is a lying piece of shit. Data is useful, but is not always necessary.

192838 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Steve Martindale, 5, #1160 of 1294 🔗

On the basis of that, net Covid hospital admissions are currently growing at about 4.5 per day per million population, or 135 per month per million population. Hardly a nightmare scenario.

The propaganda use of figures is appalling. Whatever is rising, be it cases, admissions or deaths gets headlined. When they’re flatlining or falling, they introduce some other scare factor: a new frightening projection, long Covid, experience abroad which will be ours soon etc

192767 Cheezilla, 1, #1161 of 1294 🔗

This was posted earlier but it’s so good I’m bumping it. You can always speed up playback.

Connecting the Dots:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O31AfWoBfaI

192772 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 5, #1162 of 1294 🔗

Hmmmm…….:

‘The 2007 version of the Code of Practice for Scientific Advisory Committees includes the following guidelines of relevance to our inquiry.

  • Scientific advisory committees should operate from a presumption of openness. The proceedings of the committee should be as open as is compatible with the requirements of confidentiality. The committee should maintain high levels of transparency during routine business.
  • To ensure openness and transparency scientific advisory committees should seek to keep the public and stakeholders informed as they develop advice.
  • The secretariat should ensure that the proceedings of the scientific advisory committee are properly documented so that there is a clear audit trail showing how the committee reached its decisions.’

‘We wished to establish whether a SAGE was required to adhere to the Code of Practice for Scientific Advisory Committees. We therefore asked Professor David Harper, Chief Scientist for the Department of Health (DH), whether any codes of practice specified how SAGE should act and he responded:

…there are codes of practice produced. Well, there are guidelines, principles and a code of practice which in fact has just been refreshed […] These codes of practice and guidelines go back some way. I think the guidelines that have just been refreshed were published in 2007, and they are guidelines and codes of practice that are there to allow the framework to be created to preserve the independence of advice, which is very important given some of the changes that we are seeing currently in terms of our advisory non-departmental public bodies. So there are codes of practice and there is guidance there.

142. When asked a similar question, the GCSA also failed to provide the clarity we sought.

It remains unclear to us whether the Code of Practice for Scientific Advisory Committees applies to SAGE and we seek clarification on this issue.

The Department of Health’s Communicating about risks to public health: pointers to good practice makes the following point:

A common pattern of failure is of able decision-makers (and their advisers) becoming fixed on a particular set of assumptions. In the case of scientific assumptions, clues as to which assumptions to vary can be found by looking critically at the “pedigree” of key evidence—how it was generated and by whom. But sometimes even the highest pedigree assumptions turn out to be mistaken, and there is often a need to look at non-orthodox views. The argument is not that all views should somehow be accorded equal weight. Despite the attractions of a romantic view of science, most dissident views remain just that. But that should not stop one asking “what if the accepted view is mistaken?”

‘Dame Deirdre Hine noted in the independent review of the UK response to swine flu pandemic that she had: ‘reflected at length on whether SAGE should contain a broader range of scientific disciplines to help it tackle a future pandemic outbreak. I have concluded that SAGE had a good range of expertise, although the emphasis on modelling […] reduced the opportunity for a full contribution by other disciplines.’

‘it is still not clear to us how independence of the swine flu SAGE as a whole was maintained, particularly as it included Government officials. It is difficult to evaluate the independence of scientific advice when the operation of SAGE is confidential.’

when asked about the impact of SAGE’s advice, Sir Gordon Duff told us: I’m not entirely sure that there was ever a time when the scientific advice was rejected.’

We recommend that the GCSA either clarify what guidelines/codes of conduct apply to SAGE or, if no existing ones apply, produce guidelines governing how SAGEs should operate. The guidelines should address independence, transparency, confidentiality and the conduct of members, the Chair and the supporting secretariat. We recommend that the guidelines be published.’

Have the SAGE codes of conduct guidelines been published?

192819 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tim Bidie, #1163 of 1294 🔗

Interesting.

I don’t think that it’s easy to come up with an indisputable framework for advisory appointments. There are so many balances to consider.

But what’s for sure is that it doesn’t exist at the moment

192919 ▶▶ Bill h, replying to Tim Bidie, #1164 of 1294 🔗

Good find.

192944 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Tim Bidie, #1165 of 1294 🔗

Link?

193050 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #1166 of 1294 🔗

Apologies:

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmselect/cmsctech/498/49809.htm

Top tip:

Cut a short key section from the unlinked passage and paste into google search, hit enter and the relevant article will appear, as I have just done in this case

192773 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 19, #1167 of 1294 🔗

Mrs Tenchy and Miss Tenchy are watching that Strictly bollocks on the BBC. I’m sitting in another room, but I can hear it. Apart from the usual nauseating self-congratulation that is the hallmark of the BBC, and an almost continuous stream of guff telling us that this is the best programme of all time the world have ever known, ever; apart from all that – the programme seems to be not so much about dancing, but more about Wuhan lab flu and how they’ve dealt with it. There’s much talk of “bubbles” and testing and all the other shite. The BBC at its best!

192795 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Tenchy, 7, #1168 of 1294 🔗

Just can’t resist scoring propaganda points can they.

192823 ▶▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to DRW, 4, #1169 of 1294 🔗

Nope. Not safe from Corona-ganda even on Radio 3. When they do have live music especially with an audience the term “socially distanced” crops up every other sentence. Annoying, to say the least. But at least the music is (generally) worth listening to.

192805 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tenchy, 5, #1170 of 1294 🔗

Yes. I’m having much the same gritted teeth, keep-the-peace experience.

And, yes, I noticed all the Covid posturing.

I might see the programme in a different light if one of the victims mentioned the fact that its all total bollocks.

192812 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1171 of 1294 🔗

Relaxing to the Now 70s music channel blissfully unaware of Strictly!

192830 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1172 of 1294 🔗

Strictly Dumb Dancing

192941 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1173 of 1294 🔗

Had to switch off. I usually love Strictly but I can’t bear all the 2m shite and the constant reassurance that it’s “Covid safe”. Was it “flu safe” in all previous years then?

192950 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1174 of 1294 🔗

Professor (Mrs) Beefheart and Miss Beefheart watch that too sometimes (little Miss doesn’t get a choice though). I always make sure that when I get a chance, Miss Beefheart gets to listen to a bit of ACDC or something, just to balance things out.

192774 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 12, #1175 of 1294 🔗

Went to Epping Forest today -almost normal spoiled by a few wearing muzzles in the fresh air.

FFS!!!!

192780 ▶▶ annie, replying to Bart Simpson, 16, #1176 of 1294 🔗

Their loss, the stupid twats.

192803 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to annie, 6, #1177 of 1294 🔗

lol, twats.

192829 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 10, #1178 of 1294 🔗

Me and Mrs 2-6 went out for a walk “up the woods” and a few ales with a couple of other sceptics today.

We didn’t break the rule of six mind you, all five of us. We didn’t see one face napppy, Plenty of people out and about, one or two swervers. A very nice way to spend the day!

192854 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Two-Six, 7, #1179 of 1294 🔗

‘Twas a most enjoyable afternoon with superb company and beautiful surroundings

192880 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Sarigan, 4, #1180 of 1294 🔗

Yes it was – best afternoon I’ve had in months. Lovely to meet you all.

192858 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Two-Six, 3, #1181 of 1294 🔗

Looks like an enjoyable day for you and the missus. Well done!

192881 ▶▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Two-Six, 3, #1182 of 1294 🔗

I didn’t spot the lack of nappies! You’re right though – not a one!

192887 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to CGL, 2, #1183 of 1294 🔗

Proves the absence of face nappies is unremarkably normal.

192915 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to CGL, 2, #1184 of 1294 🔗

It was lovely to meet you and Mr CGL. Talking to sane people is so refreshing and makes me believe all hope is not lost xx

192910 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Two-Six, 7, #1185 of 1294 🔗

Those who swerve
Lack nerve.
Those in a nappy
Can’t be happy.
They all make the sceptic
Feel dyspeptic.
But who cares?
The misery’s theirs.

192968 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to annie, 2, #1186 of 1294 🔗

Filthy face rags give you eye bags, spots and rashes, ugly skin tags. It’s also bad for you, to breathe in all that CO2.

192960 ▶▶▶▶▶ Stephanos, replying to Two-Six, #1187 of 1294 🔗

Though I cannot fault the sentiment in any way at all, this SHOULD have been written ‘Mrs. 2-6 and I went …’. One does NOT say, ‘Me went for a walk…’.

192856 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, 2, #1188 of 1294 🔗

Exactly. They’re just breathing in their own CO2!

192775 Old Normal, 4, #1189 of 1294 🔗

A nice video by Carl Vernon looking at the BBC article I shared earlier. Journalism is beyond saving.

https://youtu.be/jMLvVk8ulpo

192790 l835, replying to l835, 7, #1190 of 1294 🔗

Where’s the Advertising Standards Agency when you need them?! Just sat through another nauseating round of the ‘Hands, Face, Space’ adverts. The ASA should act as we know the actors are really thinking

“Hands. I wash my hand because I’m not sure what you’ve touched with your virus ridden fingers

Face. I wear a face covering because I know you have Covid, and I don’t want you breathing on me

Space. I’m socially distancing because I don’t trust you. Keep away and don’t infect me”

192832 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to l835, 9, #1191 of 1294 🔗

I thought Peter Hitchens had complained because of the untruthfulness of the muzzle stopping the virus

192998 ▶▶ Brian D, replying to l835, #1192 of 1294 🔗

I sent a short complaint to ASA regards the radio ad…no reply of course. Would be good if we all complained…

192810 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 6, #1193 of 1294 🔗

https://jordanschachtel.substack.com/p/comprehensive-study-faucis-standard?r=6a3x3&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&utm_source=twitter Comprehensive study: Fauci’s ‘standard of care’ COVID-19 treatment doesn’t work Fauci’s agency helped develop and fund the failed treatment

192837 ▶▶ DRW, replying to swedenborg, 3, #1194 of 1294 🔗

And yet Falsei rubbishes HCQ despite writing in 2005 that chloroquine could treat SARS:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16115318/

192976 ▶▶ djaustin, replying to swedenborg, #1195 of 1294 🔗

Remdesivir is barely antiviral against SARS-COV2 at the concentrations achievable over five days. It appears to have a modest anti-viral effect if given early – a challengs as it is IV only, but has no effect on more severe patients (Lancet Chinese study and now SOLIDARITY WHO study). To be honest, after they screened clinically available anti-virals, it was the best bet in town (but still a long shot). But it must be given early to have an effect. It did not have much of an effect on Ebola – a virus it was screened to suppress – most likely because it takes time to build up in cells, and with Ebola, there isn’t a lot of time.

192814 Al T, replying to Al T, 28, #1196 of 1294 🔗

Went to a game of non league football this afternoon. One of the few vaguely normal things no longer proscribed.

Crowd restricted to 400, but how liberating it felt to see people just interacting like humans are supposed to. Also refreshing to see so many ‘older’ people out and about, enjoying a drink and a game of football, chatting with friends, refusing to be cowed into sitting in the cupboard under the stairs pickled in hand sanitiser.

192825 ▶▶ annie, replying to Al T, 7, #1197 of 1294 🔗

Love your final description.

192862 ▶▶ Evoluon, replying to Al T, 6, #1198 of 1294 🔗

Did the same. First game since March Delightfully normal. Bit more of a queue to get in and at the bar, due to rather shambolic lip service to Covid rules but that almost felt part of the charm. Also my team won in an exciting cup game

192874 ▶▶▶ Biggles, replying to Evoluon, #1199 of 1294 🔗

Enjoy it while you can. I support a team in NLN and their game today was postponed as an opposition player had tested positive. This could be the never ending season.

192878 ▶▶ tonys, replying to Al T, #1200 of 1294 🔗

Did the same a few weeks ago, Marske v Brighouse, it was the most normal I have felt for a long time (nithering northerly wind though)

192905 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to tonys, #1201 of 1294 🔗

I hope Brighouse won. Fond memories of visiting there when I was a lad.

192901 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Al T, #1202 of 1294 🔗

I’ve been checking the websites of small football clubs in my area with a view to doing the same. Nothing near enough for me today, but maybe next Saturday.

192942 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Al T, 1, #1203 of 1294 🔗

I hope you spread the sceptic feels far and wide at such an event.

192835 Londo Mollari, replying to Londo Mollari, 2, #1204 of 1294 🔗

I have heard that South Wales police today stopped a bus travelling from Rhondda Cynon Taf into Merthyr and made those not travelling for essential reasons to get off and catch the bus home.

192860 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Londo Mollari, 8, #1205 of 1294 🔗

If I’d have been on that bus, I’d have been the Welsh Rosa Parks.

192869 ▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to Londo Mollari, 11, #1206 of 1294 🔗

I have family in South Wales, and they tell me the police are being a right royal pain in the arse with their (over)zealous enforcement of cross-boundary journeys.
Apparently yesterday they were sitting at a roundabout on the Cardiff/Penarth boundary and turning people around. So the good people of Vale were not allowed to enter Cardiff to do their shopping or whatever, and vice versa.
Obviously the police are short of something useful to do.

(I sometimes wonder whether I’ll ever get to see my grandchildren again because of that poundshop dictator Drakeford and his lickspittle lackeys. But I’m determined I shall, and when I’m determined….)

192903 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to TheOriginalBlackPudding, 1, #1207 of 1294 🔗

Nothing here in north east wales, under the same regime. I’ve been crossing the borders more or less every other day with no sign of any enforcement.

192908 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to TheOriginalBlackPudding, 2, #1208 of 1294 🔗

A pound fir Dripfeed?
Worst bargain ever.
Pigs wouldn’t eat him from a swill bucket.

192925 ▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to TheOriginalBlackPudding, #1209 of 1294 🔗

But what can they do if you refuse to turn around? Issue a FPN?

192965 ▶▶▶ Old Mum, replying to TheOriginalBlackPudding, 2, #1210 of 1294 🔗

My daughter, granddaughter and son-in-law came to me on the South coast, from Penarth,on Thurs evening, no problems – due to go back home tomorrow – if in doubt, ‘family support’ is the reason. 🙂

192922 ▶▶ Will, replying to Londo Mollari, 3, #1211 of 1294 🔗

“But man, proud man,
Drest in a little brief authority,
Most ignorant of what he’s most assur’d;
His glassy essence, like an angry ape,
Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven,
As make the angels weep.“

“Most ignorant of what he’s most assur’d” is this whole nonsense in a line. Shakespeare does it again.

192958 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Will, 1, #1212 of 1294 🔗

Shakespeare never checked his privilege and wrote plays that were racist, misogynistic, ageist, eurocentric, militaristic, nationalistic, non disability-aware and anti-democratic. So clearly he has nothing important to tell us about the human condition.

192961 ▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Will, #1213 of 1294 🔗

Isn’t that the line that got a TV news presenter dismissed?

192839 calchas, replying to calchas, 17, #1214 of 1294 🔗

The post-1945 era in the West, and all that we associate with it, ended in March 2020.

192911 ▶▶ NappyFace, replying to calchas, 1, #1215 of 1294 🔗

I would describe it more as the post Cold War era which ended, but agree with the sentiment.

192844 Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #1216 of 1294 🔗
192870 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, #1217 of 1294 🔗

Vernon Coleman doesn’t seem to have posted anything for several weeks. Anyone know if he’s ok?

192884 ▶▶▶ 2 pence, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1218 of 1294 🔗

That was yesterday.
16 Oct 2020

192904 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to 2 pence, #1219 of 1294 🔗

Oops thanks! Hadn’t spotted the date.
I thought it was the earlier one of the same name!

192924 ▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Cheezilla, #1220 of 1294 🔗

He’s on Brandnewtube – where they don’t censor.

192940 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Cheezilla, #1221 of 1294 🔗

He has taken a break from Richie Allen’s slot too.

The man deserves a break, he’s been an absolute stalwart

192852 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 6, #1222 of 1294 🔗
192859 ▶▶ bucky99, replying to Tenchy, #1223 of 1294 🔗

💯

192938 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1224 of 1294 🔗

Share far and wide. That’s next level

192853 David McCluskey, replying to David McCluskey, 24, #1225 of 1294 🔗

Awkward Git , thank you for all your hard work. I have researched some of these issues myself, particularly the very concerning one of false positives re the RT-PCR test. It has to be assumed that sage et al must know all this, so the conclusion one is left with is that the complete shebang has been and still is exclusively politically driven, thus facts will change nothing.

The first lot of restrictions in March happened because Johnson lost his nerve when he suddenly realised, shit I might get blamed for the collapse of the NHS, a behemoth that comes well ahead of even the monarch in the public’s affections. The collapse of the sainted NHS would spell disaster for any Government so saving it is a political imperative, and thus it was a no-brainer that Johnson must give it top priority.

Wind forward to late summer when a growing number of people has become restive and less submissive. They started to suspect that (especially with the example of Sweden in our face) the Government has wrecked the economy, caused thousands of avoidable deaths of people with serious illnesses, ruined the education system, imprisoned the population, etc for no reason. So, time for the next politically driven strategy. Johnson sees a chance to snatch glory from the jaws of certain political disaster (and perhaps he and his cohorts having to defend themselves in a court of law!), and if he plays hid cards right he might even end the year covered in glory having both done Brexit and saved us from a pretend ‘second wave’. Therefore, turn up the terror dial to maximum, bang on about a ‘second wave’, ignore facts, then make it look as though Government’s timely action saved the nation.

But surely Johnson, Cummings, et al wouldn’t stoop to that level? They undoubtedly would!

192952 ▶▶ Fed up, replying to David McCluskey, 6, #1226 of 1294 🔗

Hats off to Awkward Git.

193086 ▶▶ Will, replying to David McCluskey, 1, #1227 of 1294 🔗

That is almost exactly my reading of what is going on. David McCluskey.

192879 Bill h, replying to Bill h, 29, #1228 of 1294 🔗

Down the Pub in London.

Amazing the bubbles and relationships forged 🙂

Probably be busted shortly, but for now, sense predominates.

Good stuff.

192917 ▶▶ Braveheart, replying to Bill h, 13, #1229 of 1294 🔗

Totally agree, my friend. I was down the pub earlier myself and it was really heartening to see how much credence people are putting in to the tier-based lockdown shite. I.E. very little at all.

Let’s keep on keeping on and let’s make it clear that we want freedom – not needless restrictions of slavery tarted up as health-related restrictions.

People are smarter than that and our governments should be afraid of this resistance!

193004 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Bill h, #1230 of 1294 🔗

If they enforce the new restrictions the pubs go bust.Nothing to lose if they ignore them

192886 Ceriain, 14, #1231 of 1294 🔗

Something a bit more lighthearted to cheer the gang.

The App ! Here is a review from Mr Moist on Google Play:

1 star

Installed this app to keep my loved ones safe. Grandmas house got broken into and had her shepherd’s pie stolen…. Worst app ever

Gave me a giggle. 🙂

192896 Lisa from Toronto, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 17, #1232 of 1294 🔗

From Dr. Mercola’s site today: Where did the flu go? WHO stats show influenza almost non-existent

“Globally, influenza activity remained at lower levels than expected for this time of the year, though increased detections were reported in some countries,” according to a WHO influenza summary. “In the southern hemisphere, the influenza season remained low or below baseline. Despite continued or even increased testing for influenza in some countries in the southern hemisphere, very few influenza detections were reported.”

So where did the flu go? The CDC attributed the apparent “disappearance” of flu numbers during the COVID pandemic to “widespread adoption of community mitigation measures to reduce transmission of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19.” Specifically in the U.S., samples submitted that turned out to be positive for influenza cases during this time period dropped by 98% compared to other seasons.

Here’s what scares me — the CDC is chalking up the “disappearance” of flu to widespread adoption of community mitigation measures. If they can spin the flu disappearance as being due to anti-social distancing and mask wearing, I fear these “mitigation measures” will never go away, particularly if the imagined “second wave” of Covid never materializes. I hate to think I should hope that the flu comes back in a huge way this winter, but the thought of wearing masks forever makes me sick to my stomach. This does comport with a fear I’ve had for a long time that the sheeple will start to view flu in the same way as Covid and try to do everything to get to zero flu.

192899 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 12, #1233 of 1294 🔗

Let’s not forget all the post-9/11 “emergency” measures are still here twenty years later.

192920 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to DRW, 4, #1234 of 1294 🔗

Thinking of the USA, I’m just watching this https://twitter.com/OANN/status/1317520715755646976 if no one has posted about it yet – USA doctors a few hours ago, calling out the myth of masks working….

192978 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to DRW, #1235 of 1294 🔗

It gets worse. The architects of that are behind the bio security agenda. Just take some time and look at Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld (especially). Gilead. Etc.

192906 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 7, #1236 of 1294 🔗

One of the worries for winter was that Hospitals would be overwhelmed due to both Flu and Coronavirus. If flu is effectively gone then that changes the risk profile for winter.

Regarding prolonging social distancing and mask wearing I can only see bad things coming from it with long term effects unlikely to manifest until well into the future. At best it will create more problems due to unintended consequences that we will be required to fix somehow.

192926 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #1237 of 1294 🔗

Flu will probably return, ONS data shows flu deaths are still at 5Y average.

192936 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to DRW, 1, #1238 of 1294 🔗

UK? How do you explain the global trend?

192947 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 3, #1239 of 1294 🔗

That Covid deaths are actually flu deaths and Covid is practically non-existent?

192948 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #1240 of 1294 🔗

Yes it’s been supressed, but not eradicated and can still seasonally circulate at a reduced level. Plus a lot of flu is probably being reported as covid, not helped by unreliable testing.

192977 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to DRW, 3, #1241 of 1294 🔗

I suppose it also depends on how they are measuring death-by-flu.

As far as I understand it, flu has traditionally not been mentioned on the death certificate in the UK because it is not a notifiable disease.

This is of course in stark contrast to having died within a month of having looked sideways at a fragment of SARS-CoV-2, for which your are automatically a victim of COVID-19.

192986 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Mabel Cow, 1, #1242 of 1294 🔗

If you die in hospital of influenza, it will be recorded as such. Most likely with a positive PCR test for influenza too.

192996 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Mabel Cow, #1243 of 1294 🔗

Then how do we know 30,000 died of flu in the UK in 2018?

Dont forget this is the WHO official flu numbers. Do you think they’ve just given up on that whole data collection enterprise on flu overnight?

The actual levels of testing for flu hasn’t decreased. So what are you saying? Look at the testing numbers for Northern Europe. Pretty stable. See the pic attached.

This stuff is now being removed from twitter by the way so theadreader version is avakibel here

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1317186379483406337.html

192980 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to DRW, #1244 of 1294 🔗

Sure. Even that light acknowledgement of the data means we are operating in a seriously foggy mess.

Unless it’s some thing more sinister. But it doesn’t need to be. If flu is being counted as Covid then what is PCR?

192931 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Nobody2020, 6, #1245 of 1294 🔗

It’s a direct hypotehesis for why excess deaths are normal.

I can’t now understand how a lockdown zealot can look at that data collapse and still hold their ground. Honestly, I’ve been going over this in the last 24 hours and I’m unable to know how they can still tell themselves it’s because of masks, or hand washing, or whatever. 97% is just unimaginable from a data perspective, from a medical perspective, from a historical perspective.

Madness squared

193011 ▶▶▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #1246 of 1294 🔗

If flu really is now it is most likely because there are no social events to catch it at. I’d rather be free to choose if I want to go to things.

192932 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 5, #1247 of 1294 🔗

I worry about this too, but I don’t think it will happen. After all most people think that flu doesn’t kill people and besides, we’ve got a vaccine for flu, and everyone knows vaccines are magic and make a disease disappear completely.

192937 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #1248 of 1294 🔗

Also how does this work if ten times as many people have been dying of flu than of covid, over the summer at least?

And I’ve had at least two colds since September so we’re definitely not managing to eradicate colds…

192949 ▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1249 of 1294 🔗

I have a cold

192953 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Lockdown Truth, 5, #1250 of 1294 🔗

If only you’d used the Magic Powers Of The Masks!

193008 ▶▶▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to Lockdown Truth, #1251 of 1294 🔗

I hope a few Covid marshals will soon be visiting your area to make sure you’re not out and about there LT

192957 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1252 of 1294 🔗

I’m afraid people just got wise to the fact that flu kills tens of thousands every year and the sheeple are self-flagellating for all the grannies they may have inadvertently killed over all these years. And the ineffectiveness of the flu vaccine is getting lots of press these days as well. They’ll want to aim for zero death from any respiratory illness! I truly think they don’t give a rat’s ass about any death that isn’t a result of something communicable because they couldn’t have prevented it. Now that we’re apparently responsible for each other’s health, we must pull out all the stops to prevent anything that spreads. Cancer be damned, suicides be damned, heart disease be damned…

192984 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to A. Contrarian, #1253 of 1294 🔗

That’s nonsense. When flu kills 30,000 in the UK (2018) surely those families alone know.

Who exactly doesn’t know that flu kills?

192951 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #1254 of 1294 🔗

Could be there is a Darwinian struggle going on in old people’s lungs and Covid19 is currently winning out against the flu virus.

192974 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #1255 of 1294 🔗

The more likely explanation is that a lot of Covid was attributed before a flu test and even with a flu test any deaths arising are still labelled Covid. We saw this with the ONS figures.

You don’t always test for flu anyway so saying more testing is done is relative. Remember flu is often underdiagnosed.

192988 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to mhcp, #1256 of 1294 🔗

I totally accept that argument.

But 97% global drop in flu?

192990 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #1257 of 1294 🔗

The WHO drove the guidelines for attributing Covid. Remember Italy?

192994 ▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to mhcp, #1258 of 1294 🔗

Again. I know this. They have a system to say Covid is a sniffle.

So are the WHO saying flu =covid? So get on with it?

No. They are not. That would end this. It would be unbelievable to suggest that is what the official position is. So what is going on? I am at loss to grasp it.

192897 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1259 of 1294 🔗

More NHS app chaos:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/17/nhs-covid-19-app-users-sent-incorrect-risk-level-change-alerts-england-wales

Jeremy Place, an information security specialist, told Sky News that as many as 4 million people could have been sent incorrect updates by what he described as “a fat-finger error”.
This probably happened when a blank file was accidentally sent to phones instead of an alert-level update, he said. Any phone receiving the empty file would have reverted to the old system, triggering a message saying “the risk level in your area has changed”.

192928 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1260 of 1294 🔗

Right. End this now. Track and trace is systemic virus in itself

192930 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1261 of 1294 🔗

World-beating tech eh!

192902 Cheezilla, 13, #1262 of 1294 🔗

Liverpool tomorrow.

Clayton Square 1pm opp Central Station

192916 John P, replying to John P, 28, #1263 of 1294 🔗

Great piece in the Spectator by Lionel Shriver:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/covid-has-killed-off-our-civil-liberties

“We’ve granted government the right to regulate whether we can see our parents, whom we may invite into our homes, and how physically close we may approach another human being outside our household. We’ve accepted wearing dehumanising, fear-inducing face coverings in public without demanding proof of their efficacy. With Covid-19, there’s no aspect of our lives that we’ve not granted our betters total control over.”

Underline mine. She gets it.

192927 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to John P, 1, #1264 of 1294 🔗

That could be a line straight out of a WWII journal.

192973 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to John P, 3, #1265 of 1294 🔗

I don’t know which “we” he is referring to, but I don’t recall being asked for my permission.

The government simply misused an act that was passed when I was a child to entirely side-step the Parliamentary process.

192921 captainbeefheart, 4, #1266 of 1294 🔗

NORTHENERS: “I want to work hard and be rewarded”
BOPRIS: “Excellent!”

How’s that working out?

192929 Basics, 11, #1267 of 1294 🔗

Doctors Speak Out About Misinformation Surrounding The Coronavirus.

https://youtu.be/6HLcg9n-WPs

3 hours ago on the steps of the supreme court – quite a big thing.

192933 Andrew, replying to Andrew, 6, #1268 of 1294 🔗

Piers Morgan is claiming that the BAME population would need to be shielded if we went down the GBD route. Today I read that the ONS say that any disparity among the races is down to socio-economic reasons and not genetic.

192943 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Andrew, 5, #1269 of 1294 🔗

Piers’l; probably start saying that “we should lock all the coloured folk away so we can protect them” soon.

The bloke lost the plot probably about 357 years ago.

192955 ▶▶▶ Ossettian, replying to captainbeefheart, 1, #1270 of 1294 🔗

It’s folk of colour, racist.

(Or at least it was last week)

192945 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Andrew, 10, #1271 of 1294 🔗

Ignore him, never has anything useful to say

192972 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Andrew, #1272 of 1294 🔗

Did the ONS say that? Can I get a link? It’s just that it was a specific argument I made at the start of all this with a close friend.

192983 ▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #1273 of 1294 🔗

From a June analysis – there may be an updated one.

“ONS analysis continues to show that people from a Black ethnic background are at a greater risk of death involving COVID-19 than all other ethnic groups. The risk for black males has been more than three times higher than white males and nearly two and a half times higher for black females than white. Adjusting for socio-economic factors and geographical location partly explains the increased risk, but there remains twice the risk for Black males and around one and a half times for black females. Significant differences also remain for Bangladeshi, Pakistani and Indian men. The ONS will continue to research this unexplained increased risk of death, examining the impact of other health conditions.”

Sauce

193010 ▶▶▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to djaustin, #1274 of 1294 🔗

They are maybe short of vitamin D.

192991 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Andrew, 1, #1275 of 1294 🔗

The age distribution of deaths is almost exactly as normal. It is impossible for there to be any special risks, except in proportion to the normal risk of death.

193091 ▶▶ Will, replying to Andrew, #1276 of 1294 🔗

It is always so reassuring to be on the opposite side of an argument to Piers Moron.

192934 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 12, #1277 of 1294 🔗

Yes, I think the worm is turning. Slowly at the moment, but it’s turning. From the Telegraph (paywall):

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/10/17/tory-grandees-demand-covid-exit-strategy-boris-johnson/

Tory grandees are demanding that Boris Johnson urgently sets out an exit strategy from “a constant cycle of lockdowns”, as an influential expert on public opinion warned the Prime Minister risked appearing “blasé” about the lives of ordinary people.
Senior Conservatives expressed growing anger at the Government’s handling of the Covid-19 pandemic, amid mounting concern that swathes of the country are heading for further restrictions this week.
On Saturday, Julian Jessop, an independent economist, said that another lockdown could result in a fresh hit to GDP of at least 5 per cent.
Lord Lamont, the former Chancellor, warned that repeatedly imposing draconian restrictions and then lifting them is “deeply damaging to business and is not really a strategy”.
Sir Graham Brady, Chairman of the 1922 committee of Tory backbenchers, whose Altrincham and Sale West constituency in Manchester faces being placed in the highest tier of restrictions, said constant lockdowns or “circuit breakers” to suppress the virus would be “pointless”.
“If further restrictions on people’s lives are proposed, the Government has to set a clear end date and a strategy for returning life to normal,” Sir Graham said.
. . . . .

A Government spokesman said: “We are taking a balanced approach to tackle the virus locally. We keep all measures under review and we don’t want restrictions to be in place any longer than is necessary, but where the virus is spreading, we must take targeted action in order to save lives, protect the NHS, keep children at school and shelter the economy.”

“Shelter the economy”! Is that doublespeak for “trash the economy”?

192964 ▶▶ Crazy Times, replying to Tenchy, 9, #1278 of 1294 🔗

It certainly is, however, my real fear now is that the government position is so entrenched, their next move is going to be coming after us and websites like this, if you don’t think this could happen, look how quickly things have descended in 7 months already. They are running out of moves to play…

192970 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Crazy Times, 6, #1279 of 1294 🔗

Yes. Takes that thought and know that you are onto the right thinking. What next? Because if they turn back now, Hancock ends up in jail. Do you think then, in that case, that turning back is an option?

193002 ▶▶▶▶ Crazy Times, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #1280 of 1294 🔗

I don’t know. We definitely live in “Crazy Times”! What happens between now and Christmas will probably define society for the next 50 years or so is my best guess.

192962 Mr Dee, #1281 of 1294 🔗

http://Www.iceagefarmer.com

I was drawn to this site by the latest vernon coleman video.

192966 Crazy Times, replying to Crazy Times, 5, #1282 of 1294 🔗

DM reporting that official commons investigation found MPs were drinking in commons bar past 10pm last weekend. Wanksock hasn’t managed to answer the question as to whether he was he present yet (he’s only been asked 30 times so far…)

192969 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Crazy Times, 6, #1283 of 1294 🔗

Arrogant fucker. I’ll be having a drink myself when he is dislodged.

192979 Crazy Times, 6, #1284 of 1294 🔗

“I don’t believe I’d ever do a mandated vaccine,” the president told Fox’s Stuart Varney. “I just don’t think I would do that, where you have to have it, because there are some people who feel very strong about that whole situation,” Trump said.

https://www.twitter.com/TrumpWarRoom/status/1316754740177498112

192981 Caramel, replying to Caramel, 6, #1285 of 1294 🔗

Victoria recorded 1 case yesterday and 2 cases today. The strategy is ‘working’. I don’t see it as a victory, I see it as result of the worst strategy in the world.

193001 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Caramel, 4, #1286 of 1294 🔗

Temporary “victory.” As soon as measures are relaxed the virus is going to do what the virus is going to do. New Zealand declared victory and now the Zero Covid queen is going to isolate the country for a good long time, and then when they emerge they’ll still be susceptible. Hollow victory.

192982 Lockdown Truth, 3, #1287 of 1294 🔗

Hi

We’re building a great online management system to help us bypass the mainstream and social media and get the facts out to the public.

But we need someone who can build a front-end with a great UI/UX.

Is there anyone here who could do that? If so, please get in touch via the website: http://www.covid19assembly.org

Thanks

192985 John P, replying to John P, -4, #1288 of 1294 🔗

I am beginning to form the opinion that if and when this horror show is all over, the UK (state) security services’ (77th Brigade) greatest achievement will have been in convincing a large number of sceptics that the lockdowns were nothing to do with Boris Johnson and the British government.

That Boris Johnson was not the country’s main protagonist and the architect of Britain’s catastrophic lockdowns, but instead that he was simply an innocent bystander, a victim of unseen and unknown dark forces abroad. (And Bill Gates, of course).

They must be finding all of this very amusing.

192989 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to John P, 4, #1289 of 1294 🔗

Nor a victim, not an innocent bystander. We can all agree on this as you well know.

192995 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to John P, 4, #1290 of 1294 🔗

Change the record…and the CD…and the download.

192997 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to John P, 4, #1291 of 1294 🔗

Ffs are you still pushing that rubbish

193009 OKUK, 3, #1292 of 1294 🔗

Things I learnt today:

1. The rate of hospital discharge is a lot higher in what passes for the second wave compared with the first. The lying MSM are not telling us about this because it doesn’t fit with the nightmare scenario narrative.

2. Lieutenant Mayo is due a promotion to Colonel in view of his determination to press forward despite insuperable enemy forces on the sceptical side.

3. This is a good place to discuss, in relation to Covid, the intersections between incompetence, conspiracy, chance events, honest endeavour, commercial interest, politics, science (genuine and bogus), corrupt coalitions and malign influence.

193013 Telpin, 2, #1293 of 1294 🔗

If flu is apparently on the wane since Summer ( as WHO claims) then how is it that we’re all being urged to get the flu jab? I was personally called by my GP surgery and I’m not in any risk category. Suspect they’ve bought a huge batch and need to get rid of it to be paid?

193036 JulieR, 1, #1294 of 1294 🔗

https://youtu.be/mJq_lCcMPnI
Excellent interview with German lawyer Reiner Fuelmich who is preparing to sue the creator of PCR tests and a few others.
He is also defending students violating social distancing rules.

Users

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