Last updated2020-10-18T10:17:17



193014 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 10, #1 of 1373 🔗

Lex iniusta non est lex

193031 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Tom Blackburn, 6, #2 of 1373 🔗

And, since nulla poena sine lege, f*** them.

193038 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 5, #3 of 1373 🔗

Does either maxim apply in Fascist Britain?

193572 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #4 of 1373 🔗

Primus inter pares

193685 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to OKUK, #5 of 1373 🔗

It pays to be an insomniac.

This is how I imagine Tiger Woods felt with 11 yrs between Majors. Exactly the same.

193015 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 8, #6 of 1373 🔗

Alarming Video: A reader sent this video, which he obtained form a source in the Irish police. It purports to show a group of Romanian riot police dragging passengers not wearing masks from an underground train and brutally assaulting them on the platform. Frightening stuff.

I can confirm that it is indeed Romania, in Bucharest. I don’t know the date of the video, though.

193019 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 13, #7 of 1373 🔗

‘Obtained from a source in the Irish police’ along with a note
“right lads this is the way that they want us to do it”.

Having visited Romania when it was still Communist I always like to talk to Romanians here. Several have confirmed that while nominally a democracy it remains essentially a police state run by gangster criminals instead of gangsters pretending to be Communists.

I asked one trainee Romanian Doctor why he was not training in Bucharest
“I don’t want to work in a place where patients expect me to need bribing just to give a correct diagnosis”.

193039 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 9, #8 of 1373 🔗

Rumania had a brutal dictator called Ceausescu.
They shot him.

193213 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to annie, 5, #9 of 1373 🔗

Eventually…after the USSR collapsed, which took decades and decades to happen.

193900 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan, replying to Lms23, 1, #10 of 1373 🔗

No, it was nearly two years before the Soviet Union collapsed. Also, the Soviets and him were none to fond of each other. That’s why we buttered him up with the Queen giving him an honourary knighthood.

193650 ▶▶▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to annie, 5, #11 of 1373 🔗

The same story repeats itself. You can see it with Brexit too. The dormant anger of the people is stoked up by some “well intentioned” individuals, selling them hope. And when the people rise, and make the change, it turns out that the change they made is not quite the change they were promised.
I was 1 year old when the Revolution happened, so i can’t claim i know anything about it as an eye witness. But i do know that the people were promised freedom, and they were cheated. Change did come, and it was for the better, i will not deny that. But we merely exchanged one yoke for another.
Well, at least it seems that way to me.

193385 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to karenovirus, 1, #12 of 1373 🔗

One of my Scottish cousins lives in Romania and is married to a Romanian woman.

While I have no reason to doubt that the story of people being brutalised by riot police is true, I have not heard anything else bad about the country.

I’m sure my cousin wouldn’t live there if it was a terrible place to live.

193410 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to John P, 7, #13 of 1373 🔗

Living in a corrupt authoritarian state is not necessarily terrible unless you cross the authorities or some petty authority figure, or the economy collapses. Of course, some people find themselves in that position through no fault of their own, but most people can find ways to live fine, most of the time. Keep your head down, conform, and do what you need to, to get by. Not unlike mask wearers here.

193441 ▶▶▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Mark, 5, #14 of 1373 🔗

Can confirm lived in China for 6 months without any bother whatsoever. Was well warned though not to discuss the regime in any environment.

194221 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Monty Bodkin, replying to JHuntz, 4, #15 of 1373 🔗

If you have to watch your back every second and beware of miscontrued words, it’s not really any kind of world I want to live in.

193474 ▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to John P, 14, #16 of 1373 🔗

So….. how do you explain why you live in a country that beats peaceful protestors with truncheons and punches peacfully protesting women in the stomach? I mean…. I’m sure YOU wouldn’t live in a terrible place like that??

Assuming you’re UK-based….. you do. This is happening in London.

One bad story does not tarnish an entire country, nor does the virtue of one inhabitant absolve a country, nor does the past inform the present situation.

Which is, incidentally, Global Tyranny, because we’re all going to be slaves in the Great Reset if the masses don’t pull their fingers out of their assholes and point them at these psychopathic cunts.

193484 ▶▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to TyLean, 2, #17 of 1373 🔗

Happened in Germany at the 29th August demo as well.

194224 ▶▶▶▶▶ Monty Bodkin, replying to TyLean, 1, #18 of 1373 🔗

Thanks TyLean, that about nails it.

193671 ▶▶▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to John P, 2, #19 of 1373 🔗

Romania wasn’t that bad, at least from an authoritarian point of view. There was and still is a lot of corruption, that’s true. But if you were just an average Joe, going about your day, you won’t have any trouble. The police does commit abuses, but rarely violent ones. Mostly they’re looking for a little bribe here and there. It was the social life that has always been bad, with pickpockets and homeless people everywhere.
And i know a lot of you might gasp at me pointing a finger at homeless people, but you don’t know the homeless of Romania. Whilst there are indeed a lot of unfortunate people that found themselves on the street, there are those that make a career of it. People running begging gangs of children. Washing windshields at traffic stops. I have heard of numerous cases of children being taken from the street, after living in sewers, being brought into children’s homes, given a bed, clothes, food, but still chose to run away and live on the street.
But it’s been getting a lot better. 10 years ago it was almost impossible to get on public transport without seeing a fake blind or crippled person asking for money. Can’t even tell you how many times i’ve seen one of these people crawl through the 20 or so meters of a tram, only to get up on their feet at the end and alight. All the traffic lights in the city center had armies of windshield cleaners. Lately it’s been quieter. Maybe they found some other business.

193644 ▶▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to karenovirus, 2, #20 of 1373 🔗

Unfortunately, that is the case. Nothing gets done in Romania without bribes. And as with other parts of Europe (especially the European Union itself), whilst the political class pretended to have rebuked and destroyed communism, they still very much practice it to this day. Everyone in power has a long list of crimes behind them which is used as a leash to hold them in check. And when a new election comes along, the new party promises to bring the old party to justice for their crimes, but all they do is give them a slap on the writ and fall into the same practices. Until the next election comes along, and now they’re the ones being brought to justice. They’re all taking turns in sucking the country dry.

193263 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 12, #21 of 1373 🔗

The bizarre thing is that the whole action is for “the benefit of their survival”. These maskless individuals obviously did not think it was such a terrible threat. This is in essence the absurdity of the whole situation. “The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants.” —Albert Camus

193297 ▶▶ Hill Street Bluez, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 1, #22 of 1373 🔗

Purports being the get out clause. May be going blind but at least two of those thrown to the ground seemed to be wearing masks. Surely LS can do better than this?

193378 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Hill Street Bluez, 1, #23 of 1373 🔗

…. at least two of those thrown to the ground seemed to be wearing masks
Indeed, but so what ffs?

193430 ▶▶▶▶ Hill Street Bluez, replying to Rosie, 1, #24 of 1373 🔗

Erm.. perhaps the police were throwing people from the train for reasons other than their victims not wearing masks?

193467 ▶▶▶▶▶ Hill Street Bluez, replying to Hill Street Bluez, 2, #25 of 1373 🔗

We know enough about over reaction by UK authorities to non compliant citizens without looking at dodgy footage from Romania….

193675 ▶▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to Hill Street Bluez, 2, #26 of 1373 🔗

I don’t know why those policemen were doing what they were doing. I only confirmed that it is Romania. It could be over masks, or maybe they were after something else. But if it was masks… let’s say you have your mask in your pocket, being defiant. And then you see police in riot gear storming the train. Will you not put it on and hope you weren’t seen? Not saying this is the case, but it is within the realm of possibility.

193959 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Martin, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 2, #27 of 1373 🔗

The video in Romania was not related to mask wearing. These were rival football supporters arrested following reports that they were carrying weapons.

193379 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Cristi.Neagu, #28 of 1373 🔗

As Ireland doesn’t have an underground, I’m not sure what the “Irish police” could learn from such a video. Having said that, having been through the sham police complaints process in Ireland, I’m not sure that the Irish police are capable of learning.

193677 ▶▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to Ewan Duffy, #29 of 1373 🔗

But Ireland does have a public transport network, does it not?

193016 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 12, #31 of 1373 🔗

Sunday Times headline 18th Oct.

“If it’s a tireless Wally you want, Matt Hancock is the man”.

I thought it was just us who like gratuitously insulting door matt (h/t The Guardian )

193040 ▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 10, #32 of 1373 🔗


193262 ▶▶▶ Arkansas, replying to annie, #33 of 1373 🔗

In the sense of “free of charge”, perhaps.

193017 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 17, #34 of 1373 🔗

Re Toby’s piece on Karol Sikora warning the government about lack of cancer care as early as April.
Without knowing any numbers it occured to me at the end of March that this would be the case when I heard that they had closed our major Oncology unit despite neither its staff or wards being given over to ICU.
As to his advice that the government should use the private sector they did commandeer the local Nuffield but didn’t use it.
Towards the end of lockdown they said they would use the Nightingale to deal with the cancer diagnosis and treatment backlog but have only done so in tiny numbers.

193365 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to karenovirus, 4, #35 of 1373 🔗

Nightingales are for Covid -19 propaganda purposes only and cannot deal with cancer diagnosis and treatment. The suggestion that they could is simply more outlandish propaganda.

193821 ▶▶▶ Steve, replying to Rowan, 4, #36 of 1373 🔗

As far as I know, the NHS never managed to get the necessary staff to agree to man the Nightingales. I know the father of a nurse who was asked to work at the Nightingale in Harrogate at the height of the original lockdown. She would have been expected to live in an unserviced hotel room, away from her family, and the only financial compensation would have been her travel expenses (from Wakefield) and food from the hospital canteen. Not surprisingly, she didn’t find the offer attractive.

193018 HelenaHancart, replying to HelenaHancart, 47, #37 of 1373 🔗

Blimey, I’m 4th! Morning everyone. Feeling kind of upbeat today despite earlier disagreeing (again!) with my neighbour who wants another total 6 week lockdown! Jeez, he wants me to agree with him and refuses to listen to any alternative opinion or research I’ve done. I didn’t even start the bloody argument! In fact I avoid talking about it with those who love lockdown – there’s no point, they know it all! However I did manage to get out some very choice facts backed with evidence that stalled them for a minute, and I felt I won a tiny part of the battle, not the whole battle, and certainly not the war but it’s a start. Have a good Sunday, everyone.

193021 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to HelenaHancart, 10, #38 of 1373 🔗

Good morning Helena, 🌞
try referring your neighbour to the Mail online comments, specifically ‘worst voted’ on Covid articles. They are laughable in their Lockdown mania but always hugely down voted.

193061 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to HelenaHancart, 9, #39 of 1373 🔗

Morning and well done!!! As they say “every little helps”

193502 ▶▶ Adam, replying to HelenaHancart, 5, #40 of 1373 🔗

Anyone who supports anymore illegal lockdowns are utter morons

193020 The Walrus, replying to The Walrus, 88, #41 of 1373 🔗

“When the official inquiry begins into the unending series of cock-ups by the Government and the Civil Service, this document will be a smoking gun”

While I love what Toby is doing with Lockdown Sceptics and have utmost respect for him, I don’t agree at all that this is just a series of “cock-ups”. The Government aren’t just a bunch of incompetents, they know exactly what they are doing. It’s not some sort of benign neglect but something much more sinister than that. There will be no official inquiry – that’s just fanciful wishful thinking. This is intentional repression of the population and there will be no accountability unless people wake up and start demanding it. The “incompetence” narrative really bothers me.

193026 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to The Walrus, 74, #42 of 1373 🔗

There will be some sort of enquiry but held by a tame judge following endless months bickering about terms of reference and taking about 15 years before giving outline conclusions.

The Covid might have been natural, accidental or deliberate but various interests have used it to further their agenda.
1. UK Nats. Deliberately adopting different lockdown measures just to be different.
2. The greens, delighted that the governments ludicrous quarantine measures for those returning from abroad means that most of us would not consider flying for the foreseeable future.
3. The New World Order crowd rebranding (h/t Basics) their facist fantasy as the Great Reset.
4. Big Business in all areas benefitting from the demise of their smaller rivals and challengers as a direct result of johnson’s diktats.
5. Lazy idle people who have found that working from home is just fine.

None of these groups want the Covid to end any time soon and neither do self important government advisers, medics or the press.

Feel free to add those I have forgotten.

193201 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 35, #43 of 1373 🔗

6. The anti-Alcohol crowd determined to wreck the licenced trade using lockdown to do it.
They will be after the home drinkers next.

193455 ▶▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to karenovirus, 16, #44 of 1373 🔗

Interesting that when a Labour MP posted a photo of crowds waiting to get into Tesco for booze at 10pm, the replies all said Ban booze sales. One holier than though post suggested banning alcohol altogether. Prohibition here we come.

194408 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bumble, #45 of 1373 🔗

It’s already happened in South Africa and elsewhere.

193865 ▶▶▶▶ grammarschoolman, replying to karenovirus, 5, #46 of 1373 🔗

6 = 1, as the Scottish response has reportedly been driven by ant-alcohol campaigners within the SNP, including an Indian lady who graces this very page quite a lot.

193211 ▶▶▶ Alan P, replying to karenovirus, 30, #47 of 1373 🔗

Pharmaceuticals with their shareholders in Sage, Government, Political parties. All invested in vaccines, face masks and other medical products.

193453 ▶▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to Alan P, 14, #48 of 1373 🔗

The pharmaceutical industry is the perfect replacement for military-industrial complex. Force feeding vaccines and drugs is much cleaner than starting wars.

194138 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Bumble, 3, #49 of 1373 🔗

And vaccines will be much more deadly. This is the depopulationists big moment and they’ve been working towards it for the past 100 years. They are not going to let this hard-won opportunity pass them by.

193600 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to karenovirus, 5, #50 of 1373 🔗

Bill Gates, Rockerfella, Rothschild, &Co, plus all those with vested interests in forcing some unnecessary, probably dangerous vaccines on us all.

194193 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to PastImperfect, 4, #51 of 1373 🔗

There are many others as well and we mustn’t leave out Boris Johnson.

193874 ▶▶▶ Linda B, replying to karenovirus, 10, #52 of 1373 🔗

I agree with everything you have said…. Johnson has walked into a trap he cannot get out of — The opposition must be laughing their heads off..
I will never again vote for the conservatives.. Johnson not up to the job of leading, The health secretary Matt Hancock is an embarrassment by any standards, anywhere…I might as well have a stick of Brighton Rock instead of my local MP —

193890 ▶▶▶▶ rms, replying to Linda B, 6, #53 of 1373 🔗

Doesn’t it say something about the opposition who is playing politics and seeming to not help the country get out of this?

194195 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to rms, 4, #54 of 1373 🔗

Starmer is simply part of the plot.

193047 ▶▶ Mars-in-Aries, replying to The Walrus, 34, #55 of 1373 🔗

Don’t expect in guiding malignant plan with George Soros or Bill Gates attempting to take over the world. That is for those who really have lost touch with reality.

But it is not incompetence as such either. Rather, that there is a certain naivety that various groups and bodies should behave and think as we expect they should. Take teachers for example. If you were a teacher and the Government is paying you to sit at home doing nothing, why would you expose yourself to even the smallest risk by going back to work? Ditto the other 400,000 or so civil servants in this country. Why should they incur even the smallest risk when they are being paid to stay at home? It makes no sense for them to be anything other than an enthusiastic lockdowner.

Take the SAGE committee for example. They are people who make a hansom living sitting on important committees, and the most important thing for people like these is their reputation, not the work they do on any particular committee. Their reputation would be shattered beyond repair if they under-played the risk and it was perceived that people died because the measures they recommended were not strict enough. So, they over-play the risk and recommend the toughest restrictions they can without looking stupid, in the sure and certain knowledge that their reputation will survive if they turn out to be wrong. Look at Neil Ferguson, he is obviously a past master at this and still, there he is, advising the Government.

193062 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Mars-in-Aries, 26, #56 of 1373 🔗

Rather, that there is a certain naivety that various groups and bodies should behave and think as we expect they should. Take teachers for example. If you were a teacher and the Government is paying you to sit at home doing nothing, why would you expose yourself to even the smallest risk by going back to work? Ditto the other 400,000 or so civil servants in this country. Why should they incur even the smallest risk when they are being paid to stay at home? It makes no sense for them to be anything other than an enthusiastic lockdowner.

Don’t forget as well that their pay won’t be frozen or cut unlike their hapless counterparts in the private sector. Not to mention that many of them will retire with good pension schemes. Given that they’ve been living the life of Riley especially during the last few months, why indeed would they be against lockdown?

193402 ▶▶▶▶ Judith Day, replying to Bart Simpson, 9, #57 of 1373 🔗

If one was a teacher in a ‘bog-standard comprehensive’ it would not be the health risk that would make one an enthusiastic lockdowner; it would be sheer gratitude that one did not have to go in and attempt to teach the sort of pupils that make life hell!

194144 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #58 of 1373 🔗

In time they may see the glaring error of their ways, but probably much too late to do anything about it.

193320 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Mars-in-Aries, 23, #59 of 1373 🔗

It’s not even up for debate that Bill Gates is heavily involved in all this.
5 minutes on the internet and you can establish a monetary connection with most of the main players involved in this.As for Soros a little more digging and you will find his name in a lot of the destabilising elements that have afflicted us in the last few years.
That being said I agree with your point on the teachers.Most are lazy and have loved the lockdown.I disagree on Sage.Before lockdown they were quite sensible and reasoned.Now they are the biggest lockdown fanatics.WHY?

193398 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Jonathan Palmer, -2, #60 of 1373 🔗

You think the government needs his money?

Posted last night:

I am beginning to form the opinion that if and when this horror show is all over, the UK (state) security services’ (77th Brigade) greatest achievement will have been in convincing a large number of sceptics that the lockdowns were nothing to do with the British government.

That Boris Johnson was not the country’s main protagonist and architect of Britain’s catastrophic lockdowns, but instead that he was simply an innocent victim of unseen and unknown dark forces abroad. And Bill Gates.

They must be finding all of this very amusing.

193412 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to John P, 14, #61 of 1373 🔗

You keep pushing this nonsense.I say it again for you.Johnson is guilty.Hancock is guilty.Cummins is guilty.I would like to see them all hung by the neck until dead.Is that clear enough for you.
Gates is involved in this in a big way.Ferguson,Fachi.Whitty WHO Gavvi are all connected to him.

193469 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Jonathan Palmer, -1, #62 of 1373 🔗

It is you who are pushing the nonsense!

Gates is not the person making the decisions.

I do not like Gates.

But he does not run the world. Governments are in charge. Not him.

I’ve seen a photo about of Gates with Hancock. That doesn’t prove anything other than that they met.

If you have actual evidence , for example paperwork – minutes of meetings where Gates is seen to be giving orders and government ministers are seen to be taking them, then – and only then – will I consider believing this.

193613 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to John P, 5, #63 of 1373 🔗

Bill Gates has “invested” in the media.

194200 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to PastImperfect, 2, #64 of 1373 🔗

Including the vaccine loving BBC and Guardian.

193616 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to John P, 2, #65 of 1373 🔗

Some of Mr Gates’ influence.

193648 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to John P, 6, #66 of 1373 🔗

I never said Bill Gates runs the world but you have to agree that on the balance of probabilities he is involved and you have set an impossible bar of evidence.i wasn’t present at these meetings and I doubt there were any minutes.
Look at the evidence.He is connected to all the main players.He run event 201 a pandemic modelling exercise in Oct 2019.All the responses fits his favourite hobby horses vaccine and digital identity.He is also treated as a expert on many MSM shows despite having no medical training.
I doubt we will ever have proof but in a police enquiry he would be described as a person of interest.
And I say it again this in no way takes any blame away from Johnson and his junta.

194167 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to John P, 1, #67 of 1373 🔗

You have been rather harshly marked down and likely by 77th brigade, which stalks these pages. The buck stops with Johnson though and this almighty mess is his and he should pay the highest price. Personally I have little doubt that Johnson is working to an external agenda, but that doesn’t really matter, as the UK buck stops with him and he must be brought to account for the massive and possibly irreversible damage he has needlessly inflicted upon this country. The punishments for Johnson and his cronies need to be be very severe, as this must never be allowed to happen again.

193606 ▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 4, #68 of 1373 🔗

I believe I read on this site that 32 of 34 Sage members were in some way in debt to Gill Gates.

193649 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to PastImperfect, 7, #69 of 1373 🔗

it’s a leap of faith to believe that one of the most ruthless business men in the world suddenly wants to use that wealth for the good of humanity.
This has never felt right from the start.

194206 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #70 of 1373 🔗

Well yes, but somehow the masses just can’t see it.

193361 ▶▶▶ Deirdre Trotman, replying to Mars-in-Aries, 10, #71 of 1373 🔗

G’By their friends shall he know them’
Minister for Digital, Matt Hancock addresses the all Party Parliamentary Group on the 4th Industrial Revolution alongside Professor Klaus Schwarb of the World Economic Forum, upon whom he heaps fulsome praise. 16th October, 2017. A read of the speech can be found on the Government website. And is illuminating.

193059 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to The Walrus, 24, #72 of 1373 🔗

‘The Government aren’t just a bunch of incompetents, they know exactly what they are doing.’ I might take some persuading on that one. The frightening thing is that someone knows what they are doing but I am rather of the view that our Government itself does not have a clue. I am not sure it is one disturbing group, I have worries about China’s role in all this hoo-haa.

193205 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Steve Martindale, 16, #73 of 1373 🔗

Chinas role in all this hoo-haa has been there for decades. Using their pliant population as lab rats for developing the Social Credit model which is now ready to be rolled out upon the West.

194209 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #74 of 1373 🔗

China is a player, but it is Bill Gates who heads up the globalist depopulation agenda. That’s a fact, whether or not you are persuaded of it.

193102 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to The Walrus, 16, #75 of 1373 🔗

Incompetence as such has never been an adequate explanation. I think the most parsimonious (least conspiracy theorist) view would be that the decision to lock down was ruthless tactical politics, with no credible regard for costs and benefits to the country. Thereafter this has been back-covering, not just for the Johnson regime but for much of the state as a whole, given the depth and breadth of complicity.

Incompetence won’t work as an explanation.

However, I think there is an argument to be made that the modern British state does have a serious structural problem, which has been revealed by Covid, and which the state as a whole does not want to address. The problem is that British institutions now work on a control and compliance model. Even where checks and balances formally exist, in practice they have been tamed. Actual decision making takes place among a tiny number of people, with opaque processes and no statement of criteria or priorities. In any but the most normal circumstances, decisions are going to be crap, and then complied with throughout the system.

193188 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Ovis, 14, #76 of 1373 🔗

UK Column decronstructs this forensically every week.

193222 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to David Grimbleby, 9, #77 of 1373 🔗

Common purpose

194213 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to David Grimbleby, 1, #78 of 1373 🔗

And very well at that.

193284 ▶▶▶ 2 pence, replying to Ovis, 18, #79 of 1373 🔗

“Governments do not govern,
but merely control the machinery of government,
being themselves controlled by the hidden hand.”

Benjamin Disraeli

193327 ▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to 2 pence, 4, #80 of 1373 🔗

The thing here is not whether independent autonomy actually exists – because despite the pathogen theory, terrain is the determiner of the organism and no cell is an island – but whether the hidden hand is that of masked malice set over deeper masking of self-lack set in shame, envy and drive to GET for such self, or whether a symbiotic alignment of self-interest serves both self and whole at the same time – or as synchronous.

The reaction to a malicious despot is likely to be made in its image – but masking in righteousness claimed from grievance. The abused, take on the modelling or demonstration of their abusers, not least under a blind emotion reaction to the opposite polarity, or to effect every kind of righteous or virtuous rule such that ‘it never happens again’ where the very structures carry blindly the psychic-emotional conflict they were supposed to eradicate.

Masking can be an armoured lid that sets a no-go area that is no less active for being hidden from a surface set in wish to escape the hate and hurt.

193403 ▶▶▶▶▶ David McCluskey, replying to Binra, #81 of 1373 🔗

Can I humbly suggest that you post this again as a stand-alone comment as that would ensure a wider audience.

193602 ▶▶▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to Binra, 1, #82 of 1373 🔗

I agree with David – post this again as a stand-alone comment. It’s very thoughtful and interesting. It offers ways of beginning to think more effectively about why mask-wearers are so attached to their masks and so impervious both to reason and to manifestations of non-maskers’ horror and distress.

193137 ▶▶ stewart, replying to The Walrus, 47, #83 of 1373 🔗

Those who believe there is malicious intent at play with all this crisis are overlooking an important point.

There are many, many people who think more government control is a good thing. Far from seeing it as a threat they view measures, track and trace, rules, surveillance as things that will keep them safe. They equate these things with a more civilised society because it requires individuals chipping in for the common good.

In short, people want to be “repressed” especially when they consider themselves to be under threat.

In my view governments are pretty much doing what the people want from them.

We think most people are like those of us on here and care profoundly about civil liberties and freedom of speech. They don’t. Most people care about being safe and comfortable way above anything else.

That’s why this madness will only end if there is a proper economic collapse and enough people’s safety and comfort is compromised.

193218 ▶▶▶ Alan P, replying to stewart, 42, #84 of 1373 🔗

I hate “safe”. Every time I hear that word I want to punch the person uttering that pathetic trope.

193307 ▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Alan P, 3, #85 of 1373 🔗

Yes but that would not be safe for them or for you.

The revulsion is to the lie.
There is something true in the movement to help, serve or protect life, and the deceit of pretending to a ‘paramount concern for safety’ is an outright lie.

However, those who hide behind it are hijacked by fear of threat or pain of loss to themselves and replicate the threat set in deceit as their personal safety, rather than not comply and be marked out and cancelled.

However, when PPP.gov.uk say they are going to make us safe, this has an element of truth revealed, for while we have consciousness and choice, we are risks of infection to the captive revenue stream of a branded and managed mindshare.

193264 ▶▶▶ Binra, replying to stewart, 4, #86 of 1373 🔗

There are many, many people who think that what operates their mind is thinking…. Freedom from thinking is a masking persona or identity bubble.
So yes but the underlying pattern of this substitution for thinking is fear of exposure to self-lack and inadequacy – aligned with the masking narrative that seems to have more power to hide in.

193396 ▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Binra, 2, #87 of 1373 🔗

underlying pattern of this substitution for thinking is fear of exposure to self-lack and inadequacy – aligned with the masking narrative that seems to have more power to hide in.
Thanks – very perceptive Binra

193413 ▶▶▶▶ David McCluskey, replying to Binra, 2, #88 of 1373 🔗

Well put. I had not considered that insight. Perhaps none of us truly wants freedom: we are like the long-term convict being released from prison who fears freedom because they”ll have to start to think for themselves.

193422 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to David McCluskey, 8, #89 of 1373 🔗

Loving Big brother is a popular option at the moment

193607 ▶▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to Binra, 2, #90 of 1373 🔗

Lovely lucid thinking, Binra. Super helpful. Like a cool hand on a hot forehead.

193316 ▶▶▶ PaulH, replying to stewart, 22, #91 of 1373 🔗

You have to bear in mind that this broad support is largely driven by fear propaganda from the MSM. I have been much saddened to see how effective it has been on friends who previously seemed quite sensible and independent-minded.

And when people are afraid, they cannot think logically any more. They certainly cannot make a realistic assessment of risks.

But you are right about the economy. The “fourth industrial revolution” will bring about economic misery and it is most likely this that will collapse the incipient New Order as discontent mounts.

It is important to remember that economic problems, rather than lack of freedom, were what finally did for the old USSR.

193367 ▶▶▶▶ Deirdre Trotman, replying to PaulH, 6, #92 of 1373 🔗

And Matt Hancock is a great fan of the architect thereof.

193151 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to The Walrus, 4, #93 of 1373 🔗

They have a cunning plan!

193225 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to The Walrus, 32, #94 of 1373 🔗

There’ll be no inquiry. This has all been pre-planned and everything predicted.

Spectator Australia magazine: “Dangerous elites planning ‘the Great Reset’
Davos 2021 will launch its own Green New Deal. Be afraid.

A lasting side-effect of Covid-19 is the universal growth of state power. Despite global death rates peaking last April and immunity building even without a vaccine, authoritarian leaders are clinging to their recently acquired powers. No doubt they view individual freedom as an optional extra not an inalienable right and want their new powers to become a normal part of governing. The Victorian government is legislating to that effect.

The response to Covid follows closely the approach taken by global warming activists. But as Prince Charles puts it, ‘The threat of climate-change has been more gradual (than the pandemic) — but its devastating reality for many people and their livelihoods around the world, and its ever greater potential to disrupt, surpasses even that of Covid-19’. He argues we have ‘a golden opportunity to seize something good from the crisis’.

The World Economic Forum, a Geneva-based non-profit foundation whose ranks include Prince Charles and other climate change crusaders like Al Gore and Greta Thunberg, together with the secretary general of the United Nations, the president of the European Central Bank, the secretary-general of the OECD, the managing director of the IMF, George Soros, world trade union leaders, chief executives of Big Tech and representatives of NGOs like Greenpeace and WWF, believes climate action must be top of the global agenda as we emerge from Covid-19.

The Forum’s founder and executive chair, Klaus Schwab, also believes ‘The pandemic represents a rare but narrow window of opportunity to reflect, reimagine, and reset our world’. ‘All aspects of our societies and economies must be revamped, from education, to social contracts and working conditions.’ He labels this the ‘Great Reset’.

Much of the WEF’s agenda can be found in America’s radical Left’s Green New Deal, which addresses climate change and economic inequality. It embraces the spirit of Franklin D. Roosevelt’s New Deal and the social and economic reforms which he introduced to lift the US out of the Great Depression. However, unlike the New Deal, the Great Reset and the Green New Deal share a belief that the world is being governed by fundamentally wrong assumptions and that ‘dramatic transformation is possible with a change of mindset’.

Those who scoffed at claims that climate change was a stalking horse for a new world order, should think again. That reality is now in full view

Come January 2021, Professor Schwab’s Great Reset campaign will begin in earnest. Should his ideological opponent, US President Donald Trump, not be re-elected, a major obstacle to achieving his societal and economic revamp will be gone. Schwab is determined that a return to a post-Covid business-as-usual world ‘will not happen’.

Intense pressure will be applied to parliaments everywhere to pass enabling laws and to abdicate more responsibilities to unelected bureaucrats in global institutions. Crony capitalism is anathema to genuine market economies and, giving more leverage to those who encourage it is simply fascistic. No surprise that some of the organisations behind the ‘stakeholder capitalism’ push are accused of corruption, sexual harassment, cover ups and a general abuse of power. Still, the WEF’s oligarchy derives much of its extraordinary influence and wealth from these same institutions and no one should doubt their Big Brother intentions.

Stripped of the propaganda, the Great Reset is not new. It’s another fascist experiment being pushed by controlling elitists. Economic growth and social mobility must be subordinate to the collective. Connections will be institutionalised and privilege perpetuated. History demonstrates the children of the elites will receive preferential access to higher education and elite positions. ‘Inclusion’ and ‘fairness’? Forget it. Think inequality, serfdom and misery.”

193229 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Lms23, 1, #95 of 1373 🔗

I’ve removed a couple of paragraphs because it would be too long to post. Read the original article via the link.

194223 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Lms23, 1, #96 of 1373 🔗

MPs are like the proverbial turkeys who keep voting for an early Christmas.

193298 ▶▶ PaulH, replying to The Walrus, 26, #97 of 1373 🔗

Think of these “cock-ups” as a scatter of points on a graph.

On their own they might seem random and chaotic, but taken together they show a very distinct trend that points in one direction only.

And that direction is towards a sinister globalist New Order, with a shrunken “green” economy and medical martial law. Another commentator has called it “biofascism” and he is probably not far off the mark.

I’m afraid the idea that this will all be duly cleared up at a public inquiry, just like the end of a “Scooby doo” episode, is just wishful thinking. Unless people say no and mean it, this country is heading for a very dark place.

193393 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to PaulH, 6, #98 of 1373 🔗

Think of these “cock-ups” as a scatter of points on a graph.
On their own they might seem random and chaotic, but taken together they show a very distinct trend that points in one direction only.
Thanks – well explained.

193419 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to PaulH, -2, #99 of 1373 🔗

And that direction is towards a sinister globalist New Order, with a shrunken “green” economy and medical martial law.

This looks like mostly fantasy, or at the least gross overstatement.

Clearly there is general elite support for green nonsense, which will necessarily shrink economies as it imposes extra costs, and for internationalism, which will continue the technology-driven trend towards global government. But this is not the kind of organised scheme your words imply.

194228 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to PaulH, 1, #100 of 1373 🔗

Excellent summary, The cock up theory was dead by early April and it’s hard to believe that there are still those who cling to this nonsense.

193439 ▶▶ Mark, replying to The Walrus, 1, #101 of 1373 🔗

The Government aren’t just a bunch of incompetents, they know exactly what they are doing .”

This seems to contradict everything we should have learned about big government over centuries – it is exactly that: incompetence.

It’s not that these are necessarily stupid people, as individuals or as narrowly political animals. They can be quite clever indvidually in many situations. But they are not necessarily sensible or strong, and they are functionally stupid when they get to the senior positions they are in, overwhelmed by the complexities involved, especially when their reason is overwhelmed by fear, either of the disease or of getting the blame for its consequences.

Human beings are not competent to run huge nations, and when they try to do so they become functionally incompetent. Success is generally a matter of relative success against other similar human organisations that are even worse run, throwing massive resources at problems to achieve results, with huge waste and collateral damage..

It’s not some sort of benign neglect but something much more sinister than that. There will be no official inquiry – that’s just fanciful wishful thinking .”

Of course there will be official enquiries, probably several. Just as with the Iraq War, these will be carefully set up to try to do the minimum of damage to the guilty parties (apart from any so damaged they are better used as scapegoats for the rest), with “convictions” for all kinds of lower level offences that allow the Guilty Men to evade the full responsibility for the overall catastrophe

This is not a matter of some kind of organised overarching conspiracy, though. It’s just the way people in power work to protect each other, when (as in this case) all sides of the establishment have been complicit.

193459 ▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to The Walrus, 4, #102 of 1373 🔗

Every time a Government minister appears on television I’m more convinced of their incompetence.

194243 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to DJ Dod, 2, #103 of 1373 🔗

Incompetence is a cop out. And was it just coincidence that the incompetence was repeated across virtually the whole world in lockstep. Incompetence seems to be a lot more infectious than Covid-19.

194386 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Rowan, 3, #104 of 1373 🔗

That swings it for me.If it was just our government then I would agree.Government incompetence has a long history but nearly every western government using exactly the same policies to counter an almost unimportant threat and to continue in those policies when the threat has diminished.To ignore the massive economic damage while continuing to exaggerate the threat.
If they are incompetent why are they installing a police state on the back of this at a enormous cost.
Also the shadow powers are confident enough now to show us their hand,they are not hiding it anymore.

193497 ▶▶ A leaf, replying to The Walrus, 2, #105 of 1373 🔗

Yes, yessssss !! (Fast and enthusiastic clapping)

193022 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 18, #106 of 1373 🔗

A common argument against a herd immunity approach is that it would lead to too many deaths. Such arguments are usually accompanied with rudimentary calculations based on a simple 60% of people infected multiplied by the IFR to give some large unacceptable number.

The counter argument to an immunity approach is to wait for a vaccine.

As luck would have it we have real world data from which we can see just what a vaccine strategy would look like and that is of course for the flu vaccine.

A cursory search suggests a flu vaccine has been around since at least the 1950s, it’s not important to be overly precise on the exact details here, and an estimated 500k deaths a year worldwide from flu (give or take).

So equally rudimentary calculations for 70 years of 500k deaths gives me 35M deaths since the advent of a flu vaccine. This is what a vaccine strategy looks like and there’s not even an attempt to eradicate the flu.

I forgot to mention that none of the calculations for herd immunity take into account any existing immunity that would build up anyway regardless of strategy.

193025 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Nobody2020, 18, #107 of 1373 🔗

Good points.

One of the things that really anooys me about the likes of Hancock and his ilk is that none of them want to admit/mention that the doctors have learned a lot about this virus and how to treat it (much fewer deaths now).

They also don’t want to admit that the public know what would be expected of them, and I think would respect distancing for the elderly and vulnerable for those who chose to “self shield™”

193183 ▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Ceriain, 4, #108 of 1373 🔗

much fewer deaths now

Sadly not as big an effect as you might think. ICNARC have published data now showing that 28-day critical care hospital survival has improved from 61% to 73%, most likely due to the use of dexamethasone and less aggressive ventilation practices.

193212 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to djaustin, 5, #109 of 1373 🔗

Incremental improvements over a long period would be the norm with treatments wouldn’t it? With perhaps some leaps forward from time to time. It would be lovely to cure all disease and abolish death, but it’s not realistic – time for the public mindset to get used to COVID being around and part of the mix.

That doesn’t seem like a bad improvement in such a short space of time.

193240 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Jones, replying to Julian, 2, #110 of 1373 🔗

20% for those who were critically ill already on admission.

193295 ▶▶ Binra, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #111 of 1373 🔗

Yes. Not flu death stats are also NOT autopsied/postmortem science but a very loose and subjective designation for end of life complications that are commonly associated with another infection – including respiratory disease. Stats are thus subject to being doctored or massaged so as to manage perceptions – and that is the phrase in all of this mind-control or ‘post truth’ politic set in the Big Lie.

Invested identity in trusted science, becomes a captured revenue stream or in covid’s terms, proxy community support for state terrorism.

The billions already spent on ‘vaccines’ are taxpayer debt to be leveraged on the living, but the billions being made in ‘market trading’ are not my sphere of knowledge excepting to know that the ability to run a scam on false premises that never were going to come to fruit is a known history within any ‘gold rush’ hysteria.

As for the Gated umbrella of R&D, we already have a political control operating in lockstep with a vast disparity of wealth and its leverage as indebted governments, corporations institutions and people.
Under rigged systemic controls of expansion and choking of funds, energy, regulatory protections or denials, the operation of individual self-interest can be ‘incentivised’ to operate ‘freedom’ as instructed, nudged or mandated.

The systemic and pervasive nature of the deceit is such that our first responsibility is to our own heart and mind in re-establishing a basis from which to communicate – rather than persist in the weaponisation of the form of communication, masking as virtue.

194091 ▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to Nobody2020, #112 of 1373 🔗

I think the virus has already “let rip”. Suppression measures only delay it. It will run its course whatever is done so why do they take our happiness and freedom for nothing?

193023 Ceriain, replying to Ceriain, 20, #113 of 1373 🔗

Hey Toby,

Any chance you could persuade Carl Heneghan to look at London, like he did Manchester.

London’s figures are even lower than Manchester’s (7-day Deaths (by death date) average is only 4, in a population of 9.3 million), yet our glorious mayor is still murmuring about Tier 3 and circuit breakers.

193063 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Ceriain, 14, #114 of 1373 🔗

Good idea. The funny thing about Khan is he agitates for more restrictions then later turns around and wails that they’re going to hurt hospitality. So he demands for more money.

He has been useless throughout and should resign.

193360 ▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Bart Simpson, #115 of 1373 🔗

Cancer tumours grow new blood supply networks to divert from those serving the body as a whole. ‘Useless’ is relative to whether you are invested in the tumour of conflict-driven control, or aligned in the whole as the good of all.

Burnham is playing the same role. ‘Strong cities’ or whatever fronting organisations are funded, recruited and set into operation as the result of the paranoia of predictive programming. Transfer of life support from the whole to the essential services, as if a fight-flight mentality is capable of wise or just governance, even through A.I algorithms of a realtime 5g track and trace everything surveillance and enforcement system.

Opinions as to what Khan or any other controlled asset should do are our own private entertainment or diversion. I am not defending the muppets!

193024 Judy Watson, replying to Judy Watson, 20, #116 of 1373 🔗

I noticed on the Biased Broadcasting Corporation today that the deaths for yesterday stood at 150. I could not understand why there has been such an increase. Then I read further – that anyone who had tested positive for Covid 19 in the previous 28 days before death was included in the death toll.

I wonder what the true figure is? More manipulation of data by PHE and our useless government.

193027 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Judy Watson, 9, #117 of 1373 🔗

Judy, the offical ‘results’ page here: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/deaths has the description:

Number of deaths of people who had had a positive test result for COVID-19 and died within 28 days of the first positive test. Data from the four nations are not directly comparable as methodologies and
inclusion criteria vary.

It used to look like the image below.

Spot the difference?

They don’t want us to know how people actually died.

193060 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Judy Watson, 10, #118 of 1373 🔗

Yes, and at least 1 person who died was 99.
Check the official figures.

193103 ▶▶ Charles W, replying to Judy Watson, 3, #119 of 1373 🔗

Judy, has it recently rebranded? I’ve known it as the British Brainwashing Corporation for many years now.

193029 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Tom Blackburn, 10, #121 of 1373 🔗

Poor man. I think sadly that he won’t be the last grieving father by the end of this. 🙁

Johnson, Hancock et al ; blood on their hands.

193041 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Ceriain, 12, #122 of 1373 🔗

It will be required of them, to the last drop.
I suppose they don’t realise how the evidence -solid, detailed, irrefutable -piles up against them, day by day?
No wonder they don’t want this ever to end.
But it will. And we must make absolutely sure that evidence is not destroyed. As Nazi Germany collapsed, the murderers made frantic efforts to destroy the evidence, but there was too much of it. On paper.
I think we should start printing things out.

193101 ▶▶▶▶ Basileus, replying to annie, 7, #123 of 1373 🔗

I have a large archive dating back to March. Not printed: PDF.

193125 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Basileus, 8, #124 of 1373 🔗

Good fir you, hang on to it.
Written evidence nailed even Goering in the end, and he was a slippery fat bastard …
Like … who else?

193308 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Basileus, 3, #125 of 1373 🔗

So have we. Printed. MW

193035 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Tom Blackburn, 9, #126 of 1373 🔗

Throughout lockdown Local Live (mirror group news) online have steadily dripped similar stories, sometimes two or three a day
“a man was pronounced dead at X, Police confirm that it is not regarded as suspicious”.
Never are the words Covid or suicide used ( so they won’t appear in Google searches for same) but are curiously often accompanied by ads for the Samaritans.

193053 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to Tom Blackburn, 8, #127 of 1373 🔗

That’s horrific. The almost casual dismissal of his death with the claim “phew, wasn’t a COVID-19 death. Nothing to see here” is awful.

193427 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #128 of 1373 🔗

The tweet he refers to is removed. What was it saying?

193030 NorthumbrianNomad, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 17, #129 of 1373 🔗

Jeez, the virus can spread through eye contact. Let’s all blind ourselves. Oh, wait, most people already did…

193032 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 18, #130 of 1373 🔗


Yes, have to stop that handshaking, too.

Here’s an idea…

193033 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Ceriain, 4, #131 of 1373 🔗

Excellent. I think we should start a trend. Morituri te salutant.

193042 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Ceriain, 10, #132 of 1373 🔗

Hell no, the zombies would take it seriously. Anyway, isn’t the Nazi salute more suitable?

193303 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to annie, 2, #133 of 1373 🔗

The Nazis copied it from the Italian fascists who had copied it from Ancient Rome.

193214 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Ceriain, 5, #134 of 1373 🔗

Incredible isn’t it, shaking hands is now a thing of the past. I was watching the dick head footballers yesterday, hugging and back slapping after sweating over each other and kicking each other up in the air for 90 minutes, forgetting themselves and remembering to do the disgusting fist bump. What utter bullshit.

193231 ▶▶▶▶ Alan P, replying to stefarm, 4, #135 of 1373 🔗

I watched the rugby Heineken challenge cup final. I pissed myself when a player was subbed and when he returned to the stand he put a face nappy on!

Follow the science folks!

193246 ▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Alan P, 9, #136 of 1373 🔗

Utter dog dirt ain’t it. ITV racing was ramping up the brainwashing yesterday, the disgusting pundit Matt Chapman was wearing a disgusting union jack gimp mask to interview the winning jockies, amazing to watch as they take their mask down to race and as soon as the camera is on them they are abviously under instruction to pull it up, then spend more time fiddling with it then actually talking.

At one point Chapman was speaking to camera wearing it, I’ve never seen anything so ridiculous in my life.

193049 ▶▶ Emily Tock, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 2, #137 of 1373 🔗

Aw, come on, sure they’re codding you?

193034 Angryphon of Tunbridge Wells, 20, #138 of 1373 🔗

Couldn’t help commenting on the tik toc pic.As a student Nurse back in the 80s in a Hellish asylum I discovered a patient hanging in a toilet.After my shift I got my camcorder out and busted moves whilst clapping .What a Hero I was!
Piss boiling banality.For the record I’m still Nursing and having regular assaults on my oral and nasal cavities against my better judgement so I can provide for my family.

193037 annie, replying to annie, 15, #139 of 1373 🔗

From DM comments on the disgusting GP Zoom story:

“Yep. I’ve known this . Also GPs asking unqualified staff to examine a patient to decide if they are end of life, via Zoom. The public would be shocked by what I have witnessed during Covid. It’s an absolute scandal.”


My italics.
Every time you think the coronagoons can sink no lower, they do.

193121 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to annie, 7, #140 of 1373 🔗

This has been happening throughout. One GP told a community midwife about this, saying if the person with the deceased was able to check for pulse then they would use that to certify death.

193043 JudgeMental, replying to JudgeMental, 5, #141 of 1373 🔗

Just keep it going until our face saving vaccine is rolled out. And what a bonus for the pharma industry. We now have the latest genetic vaccine biotech finally approved for human use.


some quotes from this article:

The NHS is preparing to introduce a coronavirus vaccine soon after Christmas. Trials have shown it will cut infections and save lives, Jonathan Van-Tam, the deputy chief medical officer, has privately revealed.

The government changed the law this weekend to expand the number of health professionals able to inoculate the public. The regulations will enable pharmacists, dentists, midwives and paramedics to administer jabs.

An MP who attended another briefing with Van-Tam said he was “very bullish about the third stage AstraZeneca results, which he expects between the end of this month and the end of next”. The MP said: “Van-Tam expects it to protect the elderly and vulnerable. He gave us to understand that it stopped the virus ‘shedding’ in the young. He said he would expect vaccination to start in January.”
Boris Johnson warned last week that there might never be a vaccine, but insiders say he did so because the government does not want to “overpromise and underdeliver”.

193044 ▶▶ annie, replying to JudgeMental, 3, #142 of 1373 🔗

University students will be herded into the infernal machine for sure.

193624 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JudgeMental, 3, #143 of 1373 🔗

Stops the virus shedding in the young.


193045 annie, 9, #144 of 1373 🔗

Peter Hitchens wields his cudgel yet again, with an agonising story. One of so many, alas, alas.


193046 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 91, #145 of 1373 🔗

Ladies and gentlemen, if you will, a slow handclap for the following:

  • HMG – for the continued pyschological abuse;
  • Essex County Council – “please, HMG, put us into Tier 2 so we can have loads more money to waste and ruin more small businesses”
  • Saffron Walden Business ‘Improvement’ District who, in their unending quest for self-publicity, entered into a faustian pact with the media who (hey, who knew) twisted things and made SW out to be plague-central of Uttlesford District.

And, finally, a special mention to the sanctimonious woman who yesterday decided to launch an attack (both verbal and written) on our maskless state. But, what’s this, she decided to stay, eat her food, drink her drink, before she did this. So, exactly, how bloody bothered was she? Or was she, like so many others (and yes, I’m talking about you, the snitch who went to the council to dob us in for “spreading misinformation”) relishing every opportunity to display your revolting misanthropy.

193048 ▶▶ annie, replying to kh1485, 38, #146 of 1373 🔗

Take a photo of the butch, and of all other snitch bitches. (I presume they take off their gob nappies to eat?) Record their nasty whining voices to ensure they can be recognised.
Keep the evidence until we reclaim our lives.
Then hand them over for head-shaving.

Keep it up, my heroine.You are an inspiration to us all.

194187 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to annie, 4, #147 of 1373 🔗

And after the head shaving……….

193087 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to kh1485, 17, #148 of 1373 🔗

Find out who they are and ban them. You have the right.

193051 Censored Dog, replying to Censored Dog, 16, #149 of 1373 🔗

New Zealand has recorded their first case in 3 weeks, after their election.

Now they have to beat it for a THIRD time!

193056 ▶▶ annie, replying to Censored Dog, 25, #150 of 1373 🔗

Nice of it to wait until after the election.

193132 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Censored Dog, 7, #151 of 1373 🔗


After St Jacinda’s astounding victory something to think about. A new community case in NZ.A man who went to work on a ship in a port. He used gloves and masks.NZ now say that he has been taken to isolation camp and the rigorous contact tracing is going ahead. The whole thing shows how effective the system is in NZ. What about stopping all ships entering NZ?

193052 Stuart, 4, #152 of 1373 🔗

Burnham was of course a candidate for the Labour leadership but lost to Corbyn.

Starmer was side-kick, minion and sycophant to Corbyn for some years. This, together with his membership of the Trilateral Commission, makes him an eager advocate of the Great Reset and the destruction of the economy; and a natural ally of Boris Johnson.

193054 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 3, #153 of 1373 🔗

Some gems from NHS ‘COMMUNICATING ABOUT RISKS TO PUBLIC HEALTH: Pointers to Good Practice’

‘……sometimes even the highest pedigree assumptions turn out to be mistaken, and there is often a need to look at non-orthodox views. The argument is not that all views should somehow be accorded equal weight. Despite the attractions of a romantic view of science, most dissident views remain just that. But that should not stop one asking what if the accepted view is mistaken.’

‘While not denying that there can be massive pressure for premature closure of debate, there is some evidence that the public is more tolerant of uncertainty honestly admitted than is often supposed. Indeed, a plethora of supposedly-certain statements may only fuel the cynical belief that anything can be “proven”. The risks of appearing closed-minded can also be great. On balance, acknowledging uncertainty often carries fewer dangers’

https://www.regulation.org.uk/library/dh_risk_comms_advice.pdf&nbsp ;

193057 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 4, #154 of 1373 🔗

Also some posted yesterday, this time with link for those interested:

‘It remains unclear to us whether the Code of Practice for Scientific Advisory Committees applies to SAGE and we seek clarification on this issue.’

‘Dame Deirdre Hine noted in the independent review of the UK response to swine flu pandemic that she had:

‘….reflected at length on whether SAGE should contain a broader range of scientific disciplines to help it tackle a future pandemic outbreak. I have concluded that SAGE had a good range of expertise, although the emphasis on modelling […] reduced the opportunity for a full contribution by other disciplines.’

‘While we do not doubt Sir Gordon Duff’s independence from Government in his role as SAGE co-chair, it is still not clear to us how independence of the swine flu SAGE as a whole was maintained, particularly as it included Government officials. It is difficult to evaluate the independence of scientific advice when the operation of SAGE is confidential.’

‘It is important that the existence of SAGE and how it can be accessed is made known during an emergency so that those with alternative, credible scientific views can contribute. Such input would need to be screened and evaluated, but that would be part of SAGE’s challenge function.’

‘We recommend that the GCSA (Government Chief Scientific Adviser) either clarify what guidelines/codes of conduct apply to SAGE or, if no existing ones apply, produce guidelines governing how SAGEs should operate. The guidelines should address independence, transparency, confidentiality and the conduct of members, the Chair and the supporting secretariat. We recommend that the guidelines be published.’


193064 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #155 of 1373 🔗

This ia a bit of a weird ‘News of the World’ type post but then it is Sunday morning; picked up a link on twitter linking Covid 19 and body building;
Not sure if there is anythjing in this or not, has anyone else heard anything about body builders being susceptible to covid 19?
A few links;




193074 ▶▶ mrjoeaverage, replying to Steve Martindale, 15, #156 of 1373 🔗

Well it is interesting, and I will maintain that a lot of everything is to do with Vitamin D.

Arguably, it started in a lab with experiments being carried out on bats. Bats are pretty much devoid of Vitamin D. Let’s see who is most affected:

Care home residents – never go out, lack of vitamin D
Hospital workers – long hours indoors, lack of vitamin D
Chronically obese people – can’t get out, lack of vitamin D
Black people – scientifically low levels of vitamin D as more difficult to absorb.
Seriously ill people – cant get out, again, so lack of vitamin D.

Now getting on to your point of bodybuilders…..well funnily enough, I know taking steroids leads to a deficiency of Vitamin D.

Coincidence or not?!

193197 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to mrjoeaverage, 5, #157 of 1373 🔗

Security guards were disproportionately affected by covids apparently, all that night working, or working in security rooms all day would mean very low Vitamin D levels too.

193220 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Two-Six, 4, #158 of 1373 🔗

Night club Security were also identified early on, same reason?

193300 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to karenovirus, #159 of 1373 🔗

They will be ok now because they are all unemployed

193098 ▶▶ JudgeMental, replying to Steve Martindale, 8, #160 of 1373 🔗

The stress of intensive exercise can increase the cortisol level which has been linked to higher risk of Covid.
But the mental stress the government is putting everyone under also does the same which will have a far worse effect.

193175 ▶▶ LS99, replying to Steve Martindale, 4, #161 of 1373 🔗

Just a hunch but I’m thinking it must be the steroids?

193193 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to LS99, 7, #162 of 1373 🔗

Yer steroids. A guy I knew from primary school who was 3 years younger than me, the weediest lillte kid ever, turned into the beefiest 5 foot tall guy I have ever seen and ran a security company (mostly event security and door guarding).

He died about two years ago suddenly.

It was the steroids he used for most of his life that killed him in the end. Very sad. He was a really nice guy.

193192 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Steve Martindale, 8, #163 of 1373 🔗

Hmm, just as Liverpool gym owners are starting to fight back.

Bollocks to keep us scared.

It’s all an illusion one big psy op after another

193701 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to stefarm, #164 of 1373 🔗

Good point!

193698 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Steve Martindale, #165 of 1373 🔗


193065 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 21, #166 of 1373 🔗

Great update Toby and Sikora should keep hammering about the scandal of cancer patients being thrown under the bus. Every time I mention people with cancer missing treatments and screenings which can lead to complications and deaths, I’m always greeted with silence from lockdownistas or if they say anything, its always along the lines of its not safe with the virus and infections still around.

I can vouch for the increase in drug use especially among the young. Over the last few months, I have seen more drugs paraphernalia littering the alleyway many people use as a shortcut and our sorry excuse for a park. Not to mention teenagers hanging around after school and generally making a nuisance out of themselves. Its really sad to see this and especially as the area I live in isn’t very good and now I don’t see it really improving over the next few years.

So if anyone still says that this is about saving lives and calling for another lockdown, I will remind them that they have blood in their hands.

193067 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 22, #167 of 1373 🔗

The collateral damage from this doesn’t appear to be impacting the lockdownistas. Whenever I engage in a discussion about this with someone who is clearly ‘in favour’ you can see them going “la la la la, not listening, not listening”. But one day, it will affect them. One day, they will need treatment for something and not get it; one day, someone they love will need treatment for something and not get it and then, maybe, they will start to listen.

I heard yesterday, from someone who works at Addenbrookes, that there are just seven ICU beds occupied right now (and she also hates the ‘clap for carers’ crap).

193068 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 13, #168 of 1373 🔗

Exactly. The odd thing is I know someone who has a recurring heart problem, has been having trouble with getting appointments for check ups and consultations and yet is pro-lockdown, pro-mask and worships the Church of the NHS. Really baffling.

Me thinks that the one thing that will wake him up now is when Sunak announces a tax raid on pensions and savings. Not to mention them losing in value.

193070 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 22, #169 of 1373 🔗

Sad though, that the only thing to wake up the slumbering masses is the financial hit that’s coming. Bizarre that they think nothing of their liberty or even their own health.

I was so bloody angry yesterday (the cumulative effects of the snark and people moaning about ridiculous things, while the country has gone to hell in a handcart – “My coffee is going cold while I wait for my sandwich”) that I wanted to storm out of my kitchen and yell “will you people just bloody wake up to what is being done to you and rise up against this …”

193076 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 5, #170 of 1373 🔗

Exactly. There’s also the massive sense of entitlement and going “me, me, me!”

I know how you feel as I’ve come across behaviour like that to the point that I had to walk away from their whining because I know that I might do or say something that I will live to regret and be hauled off before HR.

193190 ▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to kh1485, 8, #171 of 1373 🔗

Thursday’s Richie Allen show (available on u tube (for now)) had a lady guest who runs a cafe in Bournemouth, fantastic lady.

Like you has kept her business open with no covid bollocks.

Might be worth you contact her and forge some alliance and tips.

193199 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to stefarm, 1, #172 of 1373 🔗

She was good until she started on about ‘satanists’ etc.

193233 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to David Grimbleby, 6, #173 of 1373 🔗

She was right though IMO – we are being groomed

Not sure about the satanic stuff although there is a lot of symbolism in the covid bollocks – wear a mask, sanitise, stand 6 foot away, groups of 6, roll your trouser leg up, funny handshakes……

193381 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to David Grimbleby, #174 of 1373 🔗

If the image and form of life, is taken to mask in, make fantasy of and give priority and power to so as to impose upon the living – or sacrifice the living to private gratifications of a driven lust or compulsive addiction – what would you call it?

I admit the term ‘Satanic’ can mean all kinds of things to all kinds of people, but I gave a sketch of what I mean and I see it working the media in particular and the minds of people in general.
However my focus is in the spark of life and love that may be covered over and denied or mocked by fake parody of life, but remains who we truly are – even if insanity blocks the capacity to believe it.

193501 ▶▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to kh1485, 2, #175 of 1373 🔗

Oh,khl, I once had a customer complain on a busy saturday that they had eaten their cake before the coffee arrived.
I just held back from replying: Well, it was YOUR decision to start eating and not wait!

193071 ▶▶▶▶ Suzyv, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #176 of 1373 🔗

I think you are right. It seems that the argument that health is being hugely damaged by restrictive measures just washes over those who want more even if they have health problems themselves. The brainwashing has been too deep and all sense have reality has been lost. So when it hurts the pocket more, will it change the mindset?

193075 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Suzyv, 12, #177 of 1373 🔗

A lot of the lockdownistas I know are retired and sitting on top of huge savings and pensions or if young have parents who can bail them out.

I’ve long believed that they will change their tune once they’re hit in the pocket or if mum & dad can’t bail them out. I will laugh if they’ll claim that they were against lockdown from day 1 and scramble to delete their posts and masked selfies.

193080 ▶▶▶▶ Sally, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #178 of 1373 🔗

Do you think that will happen though (raid on pensions etc)? Or will the government just keep borrowing and adding to the great big credit card in the sky?

193088 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sally, 3, #179 of 1373 🔗

Sunak has never ruled them out and I remember him advocating the abolition of the triple lock, Theresa May was forced to back out of that but the days of the triple lock are numbered.

193092 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sally, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #180 of 1373 🔗

Sure, I can see that happening. I’m not so sure about tax increases, though. I definitely would like to see the lockdown zealots have reason to rue their stance, though.

193100 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sally, 4, #181 of 1373 🔗

There are other ways by which lockdownista will have reasons to rue their stance – their kids being unable to get jobs for a start.

193293 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Sally, 2, #182 of 1373 🔗

There is no way the government can pay this back.In the short term they will just print more but long term I can only see the collapse of the £

193386 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 3, #183 of 1373 🔗

Covid is the controlled demolition of the economy as was.
Insider knowledge to the fact is the ability to maximise redistribution of wealth (theft) and leverage via every and any shenanigan.

193715 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #184 of 1373 🔗

That’s the plan!

193079 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to kh1485, 8, #185 of 1373 🔗

Does that mean seven Covvies?

BTW, from our family’s experiences of Addenbrookes, they could cut down their death and infection rate quite a bit by mopping the floors and cleaning the toilets.

193085 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to annie, 10, #186 of 1373 🔗

Not sure, probably. But when you think of the area that Addenbrookes covers, that’s pretty miniscule.

Your experience sounds grim. Broomfields is the same – hideous place. I made the mistake of going in with a bunch of flowers for my mum. You’d think I’d gone in there with a flagon of Novichok the way I was virtually rugby-tackled by some mean-spirited functionary. Still, always better to be safe than sorry – don’t want killer bunches of sunflowers and sanths killing your patients do you. You don’t want something as filthy as a bunch of flowers making someone’s frightening/awful stay in a hospital a bit less horrible, oh no.

193693 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to kh1485, 1, #187 of 1373 🔗

You can get your Novichok from Porton Down.

193181 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #188 of 1373 🔗

I bet the numbers of people who overdose on Opiates or even sythetic oapiates now has gone up a lot from previous years.
Also there is a big financial hit to people everywhere, even addicts. Fentanyl is much cheaper than heroine and very easy to overdose on.

Couple that with the enforced isolation people are experiencing, the almost total removal of drug, alcohol, addiction and mental health services. This is a witches brew for vastly increased death rates from overdoses.

193584 ▶▶▶ Jo, replying to Two-Six, 3, #189 of 1373 🔗

Just heard of one, in last 15 minutes. A bloke – early 50s, who has worked sometimes for my partner, and they’ve known each other for decades. Medics went into the house and tried for an hour to revive him; helicopter hovering to take him to hospital if they succeeded. But no luck.
Also know of three local suicides in last few weeks

194039 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Two-Six, 1, #190 of 1373 🔗

Agree. I come from a third world country and if poor people needed a drug fix, all they need to do is to buy a brand of super glue called “Rugby” and use it to sniff it. It’s reported to give one the same high as cannabis.

The rise in drug use in my area is worrying and yeah, its not helped by the withdrawal of services that’s needed to tackle this problem so I can see it getting worse.

193066 Marcus, replying to Marcus, 17, #191 of 1373 🔗

Is it my imagination or are many of the mainstream media outlets (including the BBC) refusing to acknowledge the existence of yesterday’s anti-lockdown/mask protests in London?

193069 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Marcus, 11, #192 of 1373 🔗

Nope you’re not the only one who thinks that way.

193585 ▶▶▶ Jo, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #193 of 1373 🔗

Yeah, the coverage I saw live was courtesy of RT

193148 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Marcus, 10, #194 of 1373 🔗

The BBC have studiously avoided them, in general. They covered the big Berlin one a while back, and one of the more recent London ones, but the coverage was just a lot of smears and misrepresentation, referring to conspiracy theorists (without actually saying what those theories were) and QANON supporters. I wrote to Michael Wendling of the BBC Misinformation Unit to complain and he surprisingly responded – he told me that the views being propounded were erroneous and did not merit airing or debate. That tells you all you need to know about him and his unit, and possibly about the wider BBC – that he felt comfortable telling me that, in writing.

193204 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Julian, 2, #195 of 1373 🔗

Do not forget the ‘free thinkers’ reported at the Berlin protest!

193277 ▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to Marcus, 3, #196 of 1373 🔗

Watching the coverage via YT, there was no trouble, everyone was calm and the police behaved themselves. Not newsworthy then, despite thousands being there.

193072 alw, replying to alw, 28, #197 of 1373 🔗

Here on the very edge of Central London there is proof that the Tier 2 lockdown is inflicting untold damage on the pub and restaurant businesses which Rishi was trying to save with his Eat Out to Help Out. Last night went to a local restaurant where we ate last Saturday. Then it was humming, last night very quiet. Staff saying they can’t keep up with ever changing rules and now can’t take coats to hang up. Walking back home past several other establishments and pubs noticed very few people, in some people clearly weren’t from same household but who cares. A Police van full of Police parked alongside what is usually a very busy pub but last night almost dead. Why aren’t the Police concentrating on the very real crime in our borough?

193077 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to alw, 27, #198 of 1373 🔗

Our takings were markedly down yesterday (perhaps our out-of-towner customers were fearful of coming to plague-infested Essex!). I am hoping that our USP of being the only LS establishment in town will save us. I just wish all the bloody mask-zealots would go somewhere else, because their damned nastiness is really getting me down.

193117 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to kh1485, 14, #199 of 1373 🔗

Don’t let it. Just take their money.

193155 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to annie, 11, #200 of 1373 🔗

Agree – think I’d print out separate menus with a separate price list – to include a supplement for the extra stress and emotional damage caused

193083 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to alw, 19, #201 of 1373 🔗

That doesn’t surprise me. Going out to eat has also become a joyless and dystopian experience. I get the feeling that it will also harm museums, art galleries and visitor attractions – when I went to London Zoo a few weeks’ ago, it was almost deserted.

193089 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #202 of 1373 🔗

Sorry, I mean a few days’ ago!

193122 ▶▶▶ alw, replying to Bart Simpson, 11, #203 of 1373 🔗

They are already harmed, masks, no tourists, people cancelling memberships. All establishments should stand together and and say no to Government if they are to have any hope of survival.

193133 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to alw, 7, #204 of 1373 🔗

Big business and other affected organisations have been very slow to push back – it seems to consist mainly of grumbling and asking for money. More legal action needed, more pubic statements from CEOs, that clearly identify the narrative as the problem, not the virus. Sadly I expect they are either bought into it or too afraid to be seen as money-grabbing granny killers.

194063 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Julian, 1, #205 of 1373 🔗

The Culture Fund is essentially a bribe IMO. I’ve been amazed that no-one in the performing arts for a start has decided to join forces with Van Morrison to get venues to open again as normal.

194059 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to alw, 2, #206 of 1373 🔗

I agree. I despair that none of the museums and institutions have banded together to protest at these measures. They should have done it from the word go and refused to implement social distancing, masks and all the assorted insanity.

Its funny though that many museums jumped on the BLM bandwagon but have been silent on the assault on our civil liberties.

193287 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to alw, 4, #207 of 1373 🔗

The pubs are in a impossible bind.
If they obey the law they will go bust.
I think the government have just created a whole new class of sceptic

193073 alw, replying to alw, 19, #208 of 1373 🔗

The get out for Christmas.

193094 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to alw, 7, #209 of 1373 🔗

Wasn’t Jesus born on Christmas? Funeral for the Turkey maybe or the sprouts.

193173 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Sarigan, #210 of 1373 🔗


193106 ▶▶ Albie, replying to alw, 16, #211 of 1373 🔗

People should do what they want at Christmas and not even think of jokey ways around the rules. And our consciences are clear. We’re not the ones denying cancer patients urgent treatment or putting people on the dole.

193118 ▶▶▶ alw, replying to Albie, 6, #212 of 1373 🔗

Pic illustrates the ridiculousness of regulations. Everyone I know whether family or friends is going to ignore restrictions over Christmas period. Thereafter it will be impossible to enforce.

193130 ▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to alw, 4, #213 of 1373 🔗

They don’t need to enforce it en masse. They just need to break our resistance to certain key principles.

They won’t go and lock everyone up while they’re eating their turkey or salmon or whatever. But if they want to detain a random person who they deem an agitator at some other point for some arbitrary reason, they can. They can claim they suspected them of having an infection.

Or they can respond like Dan Andrews after Victorian police ran over a mentally ill man and then kicked him in the head. His response was that “there’s an easy way to avoid this – don’t protest”.

193139 ▶▶▶▶ Albie, replying to alw, 3, #214 of 1373 🔗

I know, but some people I know are actually scared of breaking the rules even if they think they are daft, which as goes without saying they are.

193078 Emily Tock, 6, #215 of 1373 🔗

Irish Times’ shameless propaganda: ‘Coronavirus: Eight further deaths and 1,276 new Covid-19 cases reported’ https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-eight-further-deaths-and-1-276-new-covid-19-cases-reported-1.4383975
Only if you actually click on and read the article, which most people don’t, do you see that ‘ One of the deaths occurred in June, two were in September and five in October. There have now been a total of 1,849 Covid-19 related deaths in Ireland’. Also, notice that the article says ‘related deaths’…

193081 Now More Than Ever, replying to Now More Than Ever, 6, #216 of 1373 🔗

Relatively balanced (!) piece by the BBC (!) about the huge mess it all is. I think Triggle would be one of us, if he were allowed to be. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54546867

193105 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Now More Than Ever, 2, #217 of 1373 🔗

Indeed, he has put out a number of relatively balanced articles. As someone else pointed out, he seems to be on a career path to reading the late night shipping forecast.

193126 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to TheBluePill, 3, #218 of 1373 🔗

I wrote to Deborah Cohen encouraging her to look into how “covid hospitalisation” and “covid death” statistics are deliberate misrepresentations. I don’t suppose she will, but it was worth a try. I don’t know how much leeway she has in deciding what to cover, at least for the BBC.

193168 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to TheBluePill, #219 of 1373 🔗

Or being the Jizz Mopper in the “This Morning” studios.

193082 snippet, replying to snippet, 6, #220 of 1373 🔗

Ofcom should make the broadcast of this graph compulsory at the beginning of every news programme:


193285 ▶▶ Tone, replying to snippet, #221 of 1373 🔗

Just a quick question, if I may: What does the NHS triage count reflect?

193376 ▶▶▶▶ Tone, replying to snippet, 1, #223 of 1373 🔗


193084 court, replying to court, 8, #224 of 1373 🔗

I’m ashamed to admit after all these months that I ordered a snood yesterday. I still won’t be doing anything different, I don’t go to shops or to the pub now they’ve been included. I just need to be able to take my young kids places at a weekend without chance of a coming over belligerent and making a scene.

The snood seems the best idea at this stage, wearing a jacket now the weather has turned means I can just pull it up for a minute to buy some tickets at the arboretum or NT site like a Wild West stick-up then straight down after.

193134 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to court, 9, #225 of 1373 🔗

A scarf is a “normal” thing to wear at this time of the year.

I went to a garden center yesterday with a scarf very loosely wrapped around my face, the masked zombies never batted an eyelid.

I can’t remember exactly what the rules say at the moment (because I really dont care about them any more) but i think if you are caring for someone who is exempt, you are also exempt.

Not sure if “caring for a baby / child” fits into this category. If this is the case, I wouldn’t bother wearing any face covering whilst I’m with my daughter.

193326 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to captainbeefheart, 2, #226 of 1373 🔗

A scarf is a “normal” thing to wear at this time of the year.

That is a much better plan

193333 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Victoria, 1, #227 of 1373 🔗

No I don’t think it is. Please see my comment. MW

193331 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to captainbeefheart, 11, #228 of 1373 🔗

I went to a garden center yesterday with a scarf very loosely wrapped around my face, the masked zombies never batted an eyelid.

We have never worn masks, scarves or ‘snoods’ (what on earth is a snood anyway?) and nobody ever bats an eyelid.

If you cover your face you are complying. You really need to understand that. If you’re scared of what people might say, print out a badge or get a lanyard. It only says you are exempt, you do not need to pretend to have a disability or illness. Just do not comply with this tyranny and model your resistance to it to help others to understand. MW

193514 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 7, #229 of 1373 🔗

I keep trying to explain to my friend that I get anxiety seeing faces covered up and therefor, no, I will not accompany you for a “relaxed” browse through the clothes shops.
She does not understand, and this is a woman who worked with people with learning disabilities all her life!

193976 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Silke David, 4, #230 of 1373 🔗

I understand you completely. Shopping is pretty much no go for me, apart from essentials. Not only is it seeing people with covered faces, but also constantly questioning the complete insanity of wearing one in the first place.

193153 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to court, 1, #231 of 1373 🔗

Sounds like a good call to me. I’m sure I would do the same if I had little ones.

193261 ▶▶ stevie, replying to court, 1, #232 of 1373 🔗

I wear a bandana when I need to.

193090 matt, replying to matt, 11, #233 of 1373 🔗

First of all,I recommend the Tom Woods video linked in the roundup. He’s very good.

BUT! Even though he doesn’t actually say anything new, he puts it all together in such a compelling way, that I’m now sitting here thinking “why are we even having this conversation?” There is no logical, scientific, philosophical or emotional argument for lockdown and the restrictions that actually takes even most of the reality into account.

193400 ▶▶ Binra, replying to matt, 3, #234 of 1373 🔗

You are living the experience of the revealing of mind control – which is not just about ‘them’ and so it is extremely dissonant to what you took or still take as your reality – while huge numbers of your fellow beings do not see it, support it or perceive it.

193093 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 34, #235 of 1373 🔗

Good morning

Ruby wedding today

Will not be celebrating as we are bit to old for being beaten up by the police

We will save our mirth and merriment for the day we get to dance on his grave

193095 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Cecil B, 6, #236 of 1373 🔗

Sincere felicitations to you and Mrs Cecil B.

193097 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Cecil B, 3, #237 of 1373 🔗

Congratulations. Hope you can do something special together today.

193099 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cecil B, 3, #238 of 1373 🔗

Congratulations to you & the Mrs!

Have fun and yes we will get to dance on his grave!

193112 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, 3, #239 of 1373 🔗

Heartiest congratulations.
We will all dance together. Steer clear of me though, I have two left feet.

193158 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to annie, 4, #240 of 1373 🔗

And you are still missing a ‘nie’ – that can’t be helping.

193337 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to CGL, 3, #241 of 1373 🔗

Yes, are you Ann or Annie? I’m never sure It probably doesn’t matter but it seems to because a lot of us feel like we know you and it’s disconcerting. Who knows how this would affect your dancing ability though…. 😉 MW

193861 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #242 of 1373 🔗

It disconcerts me as well. I just don’t know how to get my ie back!

194065 ▶▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #243 of 1373 🔗

(sounds like knee 🙂 )

193859 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to CGL, 1, #244 of 1373 🔗

No, it just ruins my quickstep.

193141 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Cecil B, 3, #245 of 1373 🔗

It will be our Golden wedding anniversary in June, 2022.
Do you think that it will be over by then?

193147 ▶▶ smileymiley, replying to Cecil B, 4, #246 of 1373 🔗

Congratulations to you both. 🥂 🍾 🎉

193165 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cecil B, 4, #247 of 1373 🔗

Good Morning. Congratulations!
Shame that pig dictator is STILL in power today but I hope you two do something nice. I suggest a walk and a flask of tea or some BOOZE and a few slices of cake or some sarnies.

193203 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Cecil B, 1, #248 of 1373 🔗

Many Congratulations to you and Mrs B!

193738 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cecil B, 1, #249 of 1373 🔗

Congratulations! I hope you’ve had a wonderful day nevertheless.

193104 captainbeefheart, replying to captainbeefheart, 21, #250 of 1373 🔗

Tory grandees ask “what is the exit strategy”

Can these people get any thicker? There isn’t one and there was never meant to be one.

“Please don’t lynch me angry mob -look I asked about an exit strategy, I’m on your side”

193110 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to captainbeefheart, 7, #251 of 1373 🔗

A strategy is the means to achieve an objective. There was an objective in March: to save the NHS, since then zilch, or is it ‘zero covid’?

193120 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Basileus, 8, #252 of 1373 🔗

I think the objective is either to keep the theatre going until there is a vaccine, or to keep it going forever.

193156 ▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Basileus, 8, #253 of 1373 🔗

There is an objective – to make it look like they saved us all, so that they don’t get punished for the tens of thousands of deaths they have caused, and destruction of our culture and way of life. They are the highest order of criminals, but they got there through stupidity and greed.

The immediate goal is to put in some measures just at the point of a natural decrease, taking credit for it. But unfortunately this keeps getting scuppered by their parallel attempts to ramp up the fear with a dodgy test that can never show improvement.

193123 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to captainbeefheart, 8, #254 of 1373 🔗

The time for these ‘Tory grandees’ to piss or get off the pot came and went a long time ago. Their continued antics are just boring. (Regardless of their public position on Covid policy, almost all the politicos now are smirking like toddlers who’ve shat themselves and think mum hasn’t noticed).

193131 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Ovis, 3, #255 of 1373 🔗

Yet they seem to be our only realistic hope – a slim one.

193136 ▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Julian, 3, #256 of 1373 🔗

Put not your faith in princes, nor in any child of man, in whom there is no salvation.

If there is any political solution, it must come from ourselves, and from forms of extra-parliamentary organisation. The existing ‘proper channels’ will achieve nothing, though it obviously important for us to be seen to be giving them a chance.

193140 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Ovis, 3, #257 of 1373 🔗

I’ve not much faith in them, just realistically think that the PM has to go for things to improve and they are the only ones who can push him. But they will need a push, from us. The route is to change public opinion to then increase pressure on politicians.

193524 ▶▶ DomW, replying to captainbeefheart, 5, #258 of 1373 🔗

It seems like there is no exit strategy, though there may be a “crisis expansion” policy which would work as follows:

Declare a crisis (covid) and invent a solution (lockdown). Put in place enforcement (fines) to encourage compliance. You know that the solution will create deeper problems (e.g. mass economic hardship/state dependency) leading to a new and bigger crisis

This crisis, being larger, obviously will need a more radical solution, with a need for harsher enforcement for the increasing numbers who reject the solution

Repeat the above until you have absolute control over the population

193107 Basileus, replying to Basileus, 12, #259 of 1373 🔗

It seems to me that we have have amassed sufficient intellectual ammunition to win the case in any open and fair forum. So surely it is time to take to the streets. As a small local group we are ready to make a start and are having leaflets printed for distribution, probably on local market days, which also provide opportunities for public speaking.

193108 ▶▶ annie, replying to Basileus, 2, #260 of 1373 🔗

I stick with my stickers.

193113 ▶▶▶ Basileus, replying to annie, 4, #261 of 1373 🔗

I am doing that too. Simple message, ‘There is no pandemic’ with locakdownsceptics.org link.

193119 ▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Basileus, 5, #262 of 1373 🔗

That might instantly make people think “denier”. Which is fine if that’s what you’re after, but if I were the reader, my interest would probably be piqued by something like “the pandemic is over”.

193406 ▶▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Tee Ell, 3, #263 of 1373 🔗

Ah but its going to come back as soon as we stop using the magic tiger horn.

But we have seen no tigers for years now?

See it works!

193686 ▶▶ Marialta, replying to Basileus, 7, #264 of 1373 🔗

We did this in Eastbourne with KBF leaflets and home made placards. One of us used a mike! it was a great success – even people with masks pulled them down to talk – we chose a busy pedestrianised part of town. I do a car boot sale every Sunday in Brighton They’re still fairly NORMAL places where I can be outside and have banter and talk about Covid risk and spread the LS word in a chatty way.

193109 Jeremy Harris, #265 of 1373 🔗

Ha ha, loved that comedy bit.

Please find Norm MacDonald’s bit at the start of all this madness:


193111 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 5, #266 of 1373 🔗

Kate Green (Shadow Education Secretary) on Sophie Ridge now failing to explain why another lockdown (aka circuit breaker) would be of any use. Gove now saying it isn’t going to happen -do we believe him?

193114 ▶▶ Julian, replying to arfurmo, 19, #267 of 1373 🔗

Lockdown never ended. When will journalists start pointing this out?

193115 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Julian, 18, #268 of 1373 🔗

Yes. If we allow people to think that this is not lockdown, they will start to think that this is normal and acceptable

193983 ▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Julian, 2, #269 of 1373 🔗

Agree – I am still locked down, ie can’t or won’t do much of what I used to do.

193124 ▶▶ Will, replying to arfurmo, 4, #270 of 1373 🔗

Politically Johnson can’t take us into a “circuit breaker”/ lockdown because it will look like he is simply copying Starmer.

193128 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Will, 15, #271 of 1373 🔗

Hmm, hasn’t stopped Bozo over much else.

193254 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Will, 2, #272 of 1373 🔗

The only thing stoping Johnson over the circuit breaker lockdown,which has been planned for weeks,is if he feels there will be too much opposition.
Normal politics doesn’t exist anymore

193138 ▶▶ Gillian, replying to arfurmo, 17, #273 of 1373 🔗

Gove famously said a few months ago on Sunday morning TV (either Marr or Ridge) that masks would definitely NOT be mandatory in shops in England. A few days later……they became mandatory.

193144 ▶▶ DocRC, replying to arfurmo, 6, #274 of 1373 🔗

Oh dear! Gove said no masks and 2 days later……

193154 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to arfurmo, 3, #275 of 1373 🔗

Isn’t he the one that said masks wouldn’t be mandatory? Nuff said.

193159 ▶▶ Suzyv, replying to arfurmo, 3, #276 of 1373 🔗

Gove also said no mandatory masks and what happened a few days later.

193753 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to arfurmo, #277 of 1373 🔗

Scary question!

193981 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to arfurmo, 1, #278 of 1373 🔗

Certainly don’t believe Gove. He was the one that said we should chose whether to wear face masks and the next day, they announced mandatory face masks.

193116 maggie may, replying to maggie may, 18, #279 of 1373 🔗

I went our small open-air market yesterday to get some fruit and veg. I said to the stallholder how nice to be outside and not expected to wear a mask as i just can’t and he said there were a lot of people like me. A lady standing nearby showed me her snood and said how wonderful it was and it didn’t let her glasses steam up. It was pretty but made of something like chiffon! I admired it but said great if it didn’t steam up her specs but that probably meant it wasn’t keeping much in the way of virus in or out either! She looked a bit taken aback. It’s all so ridiculous.

193164 ▶▶ Suzyv, replying to maggie may, 20, #280 of 1373 🔗

It’s hard to understand how people can seriously think that a snood or scarf or a bit of cloth is really protecting them from anything other than a chill from the wind. You only have to look at a virus particle size. I don’t like to be insulting but I have come to the conclusion that there are some not very bright people about and those that I thought were, I’ve changed my opinion.

193196 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Suzyv, 17, #281 of 1373 🔗

On my travels to and from protests, when using public transport I wear a snood. I know this will be unpopular with a lot on here, but I’m travelling to a protest to protest there, not fight every battle going on a train or bus along the way. I’m travelling the way I do to avoid drawing attention to myself, to ensure I reach the protest.

I’m still waiting for some smartarse in a plastic/paper mask to point out that snoods are useless. Of course they are, I know they are, it’s why I’m wearing one ffs.

But the rag s/he is wearing is useless too.

193239 ▶▶▶▶ stevie, replying to Nick Rose, #282 of 1373 🔗

I wear a bandana.

193543 ▶▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #283 of 1373 🔗

Nick, we can all only do what our energy levels dictate on any given day. I admit I always carry a scarf and an exemption card in my bag just in case. I’ve never used either but just having them on me gives me a bit more confidence to breeze into a shop. You have nothing to feel bad about and everything to be proud of by going to these protests. I think wearing something over your face in this instance is very sensible.

193127 Ethelred the Unready, 3, #284 of 1373 🔗

Je suis Samuel

193135 Julian, replying to Julian, 3, #285 of 1373 🔗

Anyone got any idea why Ian Brown has deleted all of his sceptical tweets? Seems unlikely he is worried about upsetting people. Odd. Maybe pressure from his record label.

193177 ▶▶ Albie, replying to Julian, 1, #286 of 1373 🔗

If it was from his record label then surely it would only be if a Roses reunion was on the cards. His solo career hasn’t hit any heights to be greatly affected.

193544 ▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Albie, 2, #287 of 1373 🔗

It might have happened when the twitter ‘cleansing’ of the Biden story happened. It seemed to happen at the same time.

193142 Albie, 12, #288 of 1373 🔗

Toby mentions Andy Burnham correctly identifying a change in public mood. However, once a fortnight now, Johnson holds a TV announcement to put his foot on our throats just when we see a glimmer of hope. I don’t see any change til after the Easter break next year. Even then it will be gradual, until next September when we go through it all again. Every year from here on in.

193143 jim j, replying to jim j, 2, #289 of 1373 🔗

Jeremy Farrer saying “infections a day are clearly over 50 000, over Vallance’s prediction”
They aren’t.
Vallance said that it wasn’t a prediction.

Has SAGE just mentally crumbled under pressure, like the UFO Cult did!

193157 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to jim j, 3, #290 of 1373 🔗

I wonder how many infections there were in March and April according to these new models? Because they have to be consistent don’t they?

193224 ▶▶ Crazy Times, replying to jim j, 5, #291 of 1373 🔗

I just saw his segment repeated on Sky – cancel Christmas, screaming for vaccines and more lockdowns. Looked up his history – director of Wellcome Trust and sits on the board of a multi billion dollar company. Shocked I was to discover this, shocked. I would have never guessed.

193145 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 28, #292 of 1373 🔗

I see Toby has beaten me to it regarding yesterday’s march in London! Overall a pretty good day, even if numbers were disappointingly low. I had hoped that perhaps some sort of momentum had built up by now. I do however think that there are a lot of protests in other towns and cities now, and many people are doubtless girding their loins for the rally next Saturday (London, venue tbc, midday onwards) 24th October.

As Toby’s correspondent has already mentioned, there were two marches yesterday, with one group heading off to Downing Street and the rest of us (the larger group) meandering through Oxford Street towards Trafalgar Square. There isn’t much more to add to the correspondent’s report. The police behaved themselves, though they did get a little confused when we turned into Leicester Square to hold a mini-rally there. I think they were expecting Trafalgar Square, so if the TSG was waiting for us there, they were in for a disappointment…

There were a few speakers, but given my location, I couldn’t hear what was being said, though Piers Corbyn appeared unusually animated. It was here that I split, Leicester Square being conveniently close to London Waterloo, more so than Speaker’s Corner.

I hope we can build on numbers for next week’s rally, especially compared with the 26th September. We need to show this shitshow of a government that it really is game over.

For information on events, please go to




Right, time for a quick shower, then off to Liverpool to show support there:

Clayton Square, 1pm

Busy weekend…

193149 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Nick Rose, 8, #293 of 1373 🔗

TBH I only heard of the rally on the day it was held, I cannot be alone in that knowledge.

193182 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #294 of 1373 🔗

It’s often the case sadly. The StopNewNormal site lists them all, I think.

193232 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Nick Rose, #295 of 1373 🔗

Thanks I’ll take a look.

193683 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #296 of 1373 🔗

There were 10 vans full of Territorial Support Group officers parked at St James park when I passed at 12.30. Luckily they weren’t deployed for the Oxford Street march. The treat is always present.

193146 Bella Donna, 6, #297 of 1373 🔗

Isn’t it time Bliar paid for his own security? I sincerely hope we didn’t pay for that private jet!

193150 Telpin, replying to Telpin, 10, #298 of 1373 🔗

I’m really worried about T&T giving contact details to polic. Quite apart from the serious civil liberties question – on what legal basis ? – that’s thousands of people none of whom have done ANYTHING wrong. And how will we be sure that those details are then destroyed. None of these powers will be withdrawn, particularly as now they seem to be conflating CoVid with flu 😱 . When are our NPs and civil liberties lawyers going to WAKE UP? What about the Information Commissioner? Those T&T people never consented you this!

193166 ▶▶ PhilipF, replying to Telpin, 4, #299 of 1373 🔗

Yes, it sounds like a shocking intrusion into civil liberties that seems to happen by diktat and without debate these days.
Is this the about the T&T app or the telephone tracing? I thought the app had no address details. Not that I plan to get involved with either .

193171 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to PhilipF, 1, #300 of 1373 🔗

Those contacted and told to isolate by test & trace personnel. For now.

193180 ▶▶▶▶ Telpin, replying to Charlie Blue, 2, #301 of 1373 🔗

My point is that these are people who have done nothing wrong snd not ill- and they’re in their thousands

193184 ▶▶▶▶▶ Telpin, replying to Telpin, 5, #302 of 1373 🔗

And all on the basis of dubious positive tests at best and someone else’s interpretation of ‘ contact’’.

193189 ▶▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Telpin, 1, #303 of 1373 🔗

Not disagreeing. Was responding to PhilipF

193209 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Telpin, 5, #304 of 1373 🔗

Since when did this government care about our civil liberties?

193251 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Bella Donna, 9, #305 of 1373 🔗

I can’t think of ONE thing UK governments, blue or red, have done to increase or protect our civil liberties for the past 30 years. It’s just been a one-way street, where the removal of almost all rights and freedoms have been slowly chipped away at. We have no rights now at all. Covid comes first.

193662 ▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Telpin, 2, #306 of 1373 🔗

It’s good news as it will now result in loads of people abandoning track and trace and make more people sceptical of the government .

193152 mhcp, 5, #307 of 1373 🔗

You could go to a rally and all wear stickers saying “I’ve had Covid-19”. Because then you’d be immune wouldn’t you.

193160 PhilipF, replying to PhilipF, 10, #308 of 1373 🔗

I’ve only recently started using Twitter, mostly to follow Peter Hitchens. I saw that he has 138k followers, which I thought was impressive. Yesterday, I discovered that Piers Morgan has 7.6 million. Depressing. Shows what a hold our enemies have over the narrative.

193170 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to PhilipF, 11, #309 of 1373 🔗

Shows how sad 7.6 million people are.

193172 ▶▶ Albie, replying to PhilipF, 8, #310 of 1373 🔗

A lot of Morgan’s will be Americans from his late night tv chat show days. But I agree with your overall point. Morgan is very clever. He sends himself up occasionally to create the illusion he’s not really a bad guy. When in fact he’s insidious. It’s a neat trick.

193187 ▶▶ Will, replying to PhilipF, #311 of 1373 🔗

But it is always reassuring to be on the opposite side of the argument to Moron.

193353 ▶▶ Shep, replying to PhilipF, 2, #312 of 1373 🔗

We manifest our own futures with our thoughts then actions. Everything is possible as long as you never, ever give up.

193161 DRW, replying to DRW, 4, #313 of 1373 🔗

Great to hear off Heneghan again, he had gone quiet for a while. Someone needs to scrutinise the numbers.

193299 ▶▶ RickH, replying to DRW, 5, #314 of 1373 🔗

I think Heneghan has always tried to steer a middle course that avoids shouting too loudly and frequently, whilst the CEBM keeps providing irrefutable data and analysis.

193162 calchas, 10, #315 of 1373 🔗

We can expect rising cancer motality over the next few months due to cancer screenings and operations having been deferred or cancelled

A certain percentage of these will always be there to provide positive PCR results in the 28 days before death, even if they are only false positives.

THe official Covid-19 death figures will therefore rise, prompting the NHS to further defer or cancel even more cancer screenings and operations.

Which after a few months will lead to a further rise in cancer mortality …..

With a little bit of help fom flu and pneumonia hey presto we have a self-sustaining statistical epidemic.

193169 RDawg, replying to RDawg, 26, #316 of 1373 🔗

Hello all!

It’s been a while since I posted on here. I was at the Stand Up X march yesterday. It was awesome! The adrenaline rush from shutting down Oxford Street, stopping the traffic and the gobsmacked look from masked-up onlookers was incredible. Feel proud to be part of it.

I have some videos/photos on my Twitter feed. Check out twitter.com/WeWillBeFree82 to see them.

Hope you are all keeping well!
R Dawg

193179 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to RDawg, 5, #317 of 1373 🔗


Shame there weren’t more of us. Hopefully next week…

193315 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to RDawg, 2, #318 of 1373 🔗

Love the singing

193864 ▶▶ annie, replying to RDawg, 1, #319 of 1373 🔗

Welcome back!

193174 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 68, #320 of 1373 🔗

Don’t know if anybody else has spotted this, but a nugget of pure gold…


For the Twitterless:

If you read nothing else, make sure you read the LAST paragraph…

Someone shared a clip of Dr. Scott Atlas, adviser to the White House on COVID-19, on Laura Ingraham’s show.

Oh, was it good.

It began with Ingraham asking if Atlas thought Biden would lock America down again if “cases” began to rise in January.

Atlas replied:

“Anyone who’s talking about doing another lockdown has really not been paying attention for the last seven months and is simply out of touch with average Americans…. The p rolonged lockdowns are a complete disaster. They’re a complete disaster for missed health care; they’re a complete disaster for average working families and particularly for people who are working class and lower-income people.

“People have been killed by people who want to have prolonged lockdowns. And when I say ‘killed,’ I look at the data. And that means, for instance: this week it was shown that forty-six percent of the most common types of cancers were not diagnosed during the lockdown. Those cancers didn’t disappear. They’re there. People will present with much later, more widespread disease.”

Some 650,000 Americans missed important cancer treatment, Atlas added, thanks to “the fear instilled by our so-called public health experts. You could go on and on: 40 percent of people with acute strokes.”

After mentioning the statistic that I’ve shared with you, that an astonishing 25.5 percent of people between 18 and 24 contemplated suicide in the month of June alone, Atlas concluded: “It’s just completely off the rails.”

“And it’s much worse — not for the elites who are sipping lattes working for a tech company where I live, in Silicon Valley — for people who are average, working-class Americans, they are destroyed by prolonged lockdowns.”

And then, in direct response to a question about Dr. Fauci:

“History will record the faces of the public health expertise as some of the most sinful, egregious, epic failures in the history of public policy. They have killed people with their lack of understanding and their lack of caring about not just the impact of cases of COVID-19, a virus that the overwhelming majority of people do well in. They never cared to considered the impact of the policy itself, and the policy itself has been a complete epic failure, and honestly some people say a crime against humanity — these people should be held accountable for what they did.”

193178 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Nick Rose, 8, #321 of 1373 🔗

Wow, that reads more like a comment you would expect to find here!

193185 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to PoshPanic, 8, #322 of 1373 🔗

Wish some of our politicians would stand up and say something similar…

193202 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Nick Rose, 8, #323 of 1373 🔗

Nick they are cowards looking after their own interests. The voters are just a means to getting their snouts in the taxpayers trough.

193259 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to PoshPanic, 3, #324 of 1373 🔗

Quick, send him a link to the site

193249 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Nick Rose, 5, #325 of 1373 🔗

Atlas is some character. Great stuff.

193399 ▶▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 4, #326 of 1373 🔗

I think he is marvellous.

193278 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Nick Rose, 8, #327 of 1373 🔗

I’ve retweeted that to Matt Hancock. Hope he enjoys watching.

193176 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 9, #328 of 1373 🔗

So Baroness the Dildo Harding is going to grass you up to the police

Time to ditch those phones folks

193206 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Cecil B, 6, #329 of 1373 🔗

People need to leave their phones at home. This electronic appendage which some find so addictive is a monitoring device so Big Brother can keep a close eye on you.

193207 ▶▶ Stephanos, replying to Cecil B, 10, #330 of 1373 🔗

As Allison Pearson so brilliantly said last week, Dido queen of Carnage.

193191 PoshPanic, replying to PoshPanic, 29, #331 of 1373 🔗

I had to take my mum to have her blood test last week, before going for her 6 monthly Lymphoma check up.
She was out in 5 minutes. It sounded as though the nurse was pleased to have a punter.

She just found out her check up is now cancelled and will now be conducted over the phone. This is a check up that normally involves a hands on, physical examination.

It’s now very clear to me, if it wasn’t already, that they think Covid is more important than cancer treatment.

193271 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to PoshPanic, 3, #332 of 1373 🔗

Get someone to post that fact on Hancock’s twitter feed. If you do it, it won’t be anonymous. Shame him.

193194 Jay Berger, 14, #333 of 1373 🔗

Tory Grandees Ask: “What’s the Exit Strategy?”

Well, we lockdownsceptics asked that question in March, before the idiotic lockdown, R, hammer&dance, t&t etc. ‘strstegies’ were implemented and followed.
So did Giesecke&Tegnell.

193195 2 pence, replying to 2 pence, 2, #334 of 1373 🔗

John Ioannidis – Science Hypocrisy and Lies

193216 ▶▶ CGL, replying to 2 pence, 5, #335 of 1373 🔗

Am I right in thinking he was the chap who got the IFR correct months ago but the WHO wrote it off?

193226 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to CGL, 3, #336 of 1373 🔗

Yes. He called it back in March. Also conducted a serology study in California and was rubbished.

193198 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 15, #338 of 1373 🔗

Right, I’m offski to Scouseland. See you all later.

193223 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #339 of 1373 🔗

Bon voyage.

193228 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Nick Rose, 6, #340 of 1373 🔗

Have a good day Nick. Power to the people, stick it to the man.

193257 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #341 of 1373 🔗

Calm down…calm down…

193208 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, #342 of 1373 🔗

There is no doubt but Covid deaths are increasing. As I understand it deaths from respiratory illnesses simply just do increase in the autumn and winter.

Does anyone know how the rise in Covid mortality compares with the current mortality figures for flu? Is the increase in Covid deaths about the same? steeper? or less steep?

193215 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #343 of 1373 🔗

“There is no doubt but Covid deaths are increasing.”

What is the supporting evidence for that remark.

193221 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to calchas, 4, #344 of 1373 🔗

There isn’t any, the government is doing its usual deceiving the public by merging the flu and Covid stats as one, they are so predictable it’s embarrassing!

193235 ▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #345 of 1373 🔗


Bear in mind that the definition of ‘covid death’ is ‘positive PCR + death within 28 days’ – ie the person may have died of something completely different.

In addition, don’t forget:

  1. The problems with the PCR-test, acoordong to it’s inventor it is possible to theuse the PCR to “find almost anytthing in anyone”
  2. A ‘Covid death’ can be recorded on the basis of a doctor ‘thinking that the patient died of covid’
193227 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to calchas, #346 of 1373 🔗

Sure, I’m only looking at this now:-


Specifically: Deaths within 28 days of positive test by date reported

193238 ▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Ned of the Hills, 3, #347 of 1373 🔗

So, assuming a constant rate of ‘positive results’, the normal increase in mortality as we move into winter will automaticallly provide an increase in ‘covid deaths’.

193288 ▶▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #348 of 1373 🔗

Could have died from food poisoning, heart attack, stroke, cancer etcetc . But if Covid is present, that trumps everything

193237 ▶▶ Crazy Times, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #349 of 1373 🔗
193310 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Crazy Times, 3, #350 of 1373 🔗

But remember, dying from flu is peaceful and lovely whereas dying from Covid is ghastly and awful and the worst way to go ever.

193243 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #351 of 1373 🔗

Someone posted a link on yesterday’s thread. Interesting read. Suggesting that covid could be pushing flu viruses out of the way, so to speak. https://www.theblaze.com/amp/horowitz-flu-season-coronavirus-2648227802?__twitter_impression=true

193366 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Charlie Blue, 2, #352 of 1373 🔗

Interesting – much thanks for the link. But I’m sure flu hasn’t been crowded out in the U.K. I thought the ONS had been stating deaths from flu were running higher than deaths from Covid for some time?

193256 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Ned of the Hills, 3, #353 of 1373 🔗

Everybody is dying of covid, it’s rubbish, they can put any old crap on the death certificate. Fallen down the stairs covid, heart attack hmm well he did have a sore throat last week covid, head chopped of by a terrorist hmm he was looking a bit peaky covid.

193828 ▶▶ GLT, replying to Ned of the Hills, #354 of 1373 🔗

Look up the pathologist dr Claire Craig on Twitter. She is doing a great job spotting the anomalies in the current data that means they are unlikely to be Covid deaths.

193210 GuyRich, 10, #355 of 1373 🔗

Oh no! The virus is not scaring enough people, we need something else to push more fear upon the people. What ever can we do about that? Oh, of course, the Muslim extremists have been a bit quiet this year, lets throw in a beheading in France to stoke up a bit more fear and hatred. Done.

Oh, and as far as judicial reviews go, Dolan and Cripps couldn’t even overturn the 10pm curfew so they stand no chance of forcing the government to concede over the CONvirus act.The only thing that stands any chance is going after individuals:


I hope every single one of the MPs voting for this insanity will be charged with fraud, genocide and treason. The interview with Mark Devlin is good. We need to superglue all government building doors shut!!!

193217 Will, replying to Will, 53, #356 of 1373 🔗

On the track and trace thing, let me tell you a story. In the spring of 2017 I passed out while driving. My family were in the car but, fortunately there was no crash and no one was hurt. We went to A and E etc and I did the right thing by informing the DVLA and handing in my license while I organised appointments to ascertain the reason for my black out.

When I went to see the specialist I resolved to be honest with him so he could do his job so I informed him that I was a very, very occasional smoker and I also drink more than the government alcohol recommendations.

The doctor diagnosed my black out as a clear case of something called vaso vagal syncopy which is basically low blood pressure caused by a combination of dehydration and often by sitting down after a hot shower or bath, exactly as happened to me on that day.

He recommended that there was no reason why I shouldn’t get my license back and sure enough I was allowed to start driving again. However, two months later the DVLA took my license away because “I had shown persistent misuse of alcohol.” Without even thinking about it, I had signed a disclaimer allowing my doctor to share my medical notes with the DVLA, if I hadn’t consented they wouldn’t have given me my license back.

On the basis that I had admitted to drinking more than the state mandated alcohol guidelines they banned me from driving; I was completely sober when the black out happened, I had never had any issues with alcohol, had never broken any laws yet the state took my license away and there was nothing I could do about it. To be clear, my doctor was as astonished as me that the DVLA had this power.

Anyone who uses the T and T app or, indeed, hands over their details to the state is stark raving mad.

193234 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Will, 13, #357 of 1373 🔗

This is chilling. I am really worried about this – with QR now even being implemented in shops how can we all completely avoid it forever? Click and collect or delivery is fine but what about dentists, doctors, opticians or other services that we need occasionally? There will always be a point at which it can’t be avoided won’t there? They will make sure of it.

193248 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to CGL, 7, #358 of 1373 🔗

Today’s T&T is tomorrow’s vaccine ID.

193252 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to CGL, 8, #359 of 1373 🔗

QR codes are very dangerous, all jolly good fun now when we scan them in the pub to see the menu but will be used in the future to run and ruin our lives.

And it’s not a conspiracy…..

194252 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to stefarm, 1, #360 of 1373 🔗

The biggest conspiracy is the one that tells us there are no conspiracies. Somewhat hackneyed, but true.

193241 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Will, 20, #361 of 1373 🔗

‘Misuse of alcohol’ means using it to make hand sanitizer.

193266 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Will, 4, #362 of 1373 🔗

Great post. Good to know how far they went in 2017. Imagine what they will do with your data today.

Also shows you that if you do the right thing, how badly it can affect you.

193219 Hoppy Uniatz, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 26, #363 of 1373 🔗

Went through the railway station yesterday, and this little dog went berserk with joy at seeing a real human face, jumping up, wagging its tail hard enough to make the whole dog rotate on the spot, etc. Tried hard to make a fuss of it without intimidating the (masked) owner.

193570 ▶▶ DomW, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 2, #364 of 1373 🔗

Children and animals show natural wisdom sadly lost or repressed by many (most ?) adults

193230 Basileus, 2, #365 of 1373 🔗

I have created a number of leaflets which you may like to use. You will find them here:


As always comments, particularly critical ones, are welcome.

193242 chaos, replying to chaos, 12, #366 of 1373 🔗

Destroy Their Window of Davos Opportunity
Idea #1

A hug and kiss in. Hundreds, thousands meet in towns and cities and at a prescribed time say sexy o’clock everyone kisses. Herd immunity here we cum! Doesn’t have to be frenchies but can be rather French. Pecks, Cheeks. Or you may now kiss the bride. The young may spit in each others mouths as I understand is the thing these days. Just please no petting unless you are wearing heavy winter overcoats. FACE KISS HUG.

193244 ▶▶ calchas, replying to chaos, 2, #367 of 1373 🔗

I’m in!

193265 ▶▶ DRW, replying to chaos, 2, #368 of 1373 🔗

Wasn’t there a mass hug-in event in Holland?

193245 calchas, replying to calchas, 4, #369 of 1373 🔗

Have we flattened the curve yet?

193294 ▶▶ CGL, replying to calchas, 3, #370 of 1373 🔗

Bombed it to bits but no one noticed

193247 ChrisDinBristol, 3, #371 of 1373 🔗

Watched the Robert E Woods talk last night – utterly brilliant & highly recommended. . . Maybe he should be writing Trump’s speeches!

193250 calchas, 7, #372 of 1373 🔗

It’s a pity Gilbert and Sullivan aren’t around to make comic opera out of this nonsense.

The dancing nurses fit right into that.

The subject is perfect.

I am the very model of a modern malicious virus.

193253 Victoria, 3, #373 of 1373 🔗

Please watch this new video with Dr Reiner Fuellmich : lockdowns are a crime against humanity

Their class action lawsuit to focus on 3 things 1) how dangerous is this virus? 2) reliability of PCR test 3) collateral damage

They are going to sue individuals such as Tedros from WHO and many others that lied about the pandemic, PCR etc. It will be the largest court lawsuit ever. A lot of people will try to stop us but we are a big group of people. The factual knowledge we will gain from this lawsuit will be used everywhere else in the world for further court cases. They are confident that they will win.

Dr Fuellmich is also representing 3 young German girls: criminal case against them for breaking social distancing rules and if need be will take it up to the Supreme Court. Hold the German Government responsible and make them pay for it.




193255 John Stone, 1, #374 of 1373 🔗

I cannot help thinking Lockdown Sceptics ought to avoid the “antivaxxer” terminology. Those of us who warned about the over-ambition of the global vaccine lobby – and it was never a matter of ideology – are being treated like “premature anti-Fascists”. The fact is that we are all being held in fake-narrative by the vaccine lobby in which they are going to rescues us all, and everyone ought to be more terrified than ever.

193258 Alan P, replying to Alan P, 12, #375 of 1373 🔗

Dunno why, just feeling a bit more optimistic today.

To all on here worrying about a dystopian future, if you look at history, all the facist, dictatorial, totalitarian regimes eventually fall.

They may take years, but humankind eventually triumphs.

Of course the best thing is to not let them happen in the first place!

193268 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Alan P, 16, #376 of 1373 🔗

Nazi Germany lasted 12 years and took a World war to end.Soviet Russia lasted 70 years and China is still going strong.
We must stop this before it becomes intrenched

193373 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 4, #377 of 1373 🔗

I agree we have to stop it before it is too late, I am feeling hopeful so many people are waking up, class actions around the world, doctors and scientists speaking up. It will be interesting how this whole Hunter Biden/ China blackmailing the Democrats story plays out. It potentially exposes so much corruption it is very possible it could wake up everyone to what is really going on.

193270 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Alan P, 8, #378 of 1373 🔗

Too late, the people love their slavery. They love totalitarian fascism. They love the feeling of personal empowerment being part of “It” gives them. They LOVE IT!

193281 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Two-Six, 1, #379 of 1373 🔗

Probably some just don’t want to believe it’s happening…

193289 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Two-Six, 4, #380 of 1373 🔗

And don’t forget the fear- they love that best of all

193283 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Alan P, 3, #381 of 1373 🔗

A Great Reset is a very 6th form thing to attempt. Our economic stability.. our old normal is a rag tag bunch of bits and bobs that have come together and evolved. This mad new normal is destined to fail. I’m still astonished this blatant coup has not (yet) been more widely identified as such or stopped.

193499 ▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to chaos, 1, #382 of 1373 🔗

I believe it will fail, not sure when though. I’m also worried what other dark tools the nutcases that are doing to this have up their sleeve. They’re not just going to say “Oh well, it was a fair cop, we’ll just go to prison now”

I’m just worried how many people have to die before it fails.

193820 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to chaos, #383 of 1373 🔗

The might of the official propaganda machine – aka the BBC and the MSM.

193260 calchas, 1, #384 of 1373 🔗

File under weird.

In 2013 a rapper called Dr Creep made a video called ‘Pandemic’

On line goes:

“2020 combined with coronavirus bodies stacking”


193267 chaos, replying to chaos, 4, #385 of 1373 🔗

Destroy Their Window of Davos Opportunity
Idea #2

Does Bojo really follow polls?

I suspect polls are rigged. Like the mainstream media polls herd opinion. For example, claim brexit is losing, and hopefully you win remain. Claim Build Back Biden is winning, and hopefully Trump loses. Polls can make people vote with the masses or make people despondent and stay at home. I suspect polls are rigged by governments foreign and domestic. If they are not rigged however…

Some 50,000 people a day visit this site. Get on YouGov and vote in every lockdown poll.

193274 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to chaos, 7, #386 of 1373 🔗

Yougov a private owner but a site many think is actually connected to the government.

193279 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #387 of 1373 🔗

It was started by two Conservative MP’s.

193823 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Dan Clarke, #388 of 1373 🔗

YouGov is rigged.

193291 ▶▶ Julian, replying to chaos, #389 of 1373 🔗

I would like some rich sceptic to seed fund then crowdfund the commissioning of a properly targeted poll with sensible questions to get a truer idea of attitudes. I think it would show more scepticism than we expect, and would also inform how to target the next stage of the counter-propaganda campaign that I feel is needed

193347 ▶▶ RichardJames, replying to chaos, 3, #390 of 1373 🔗

YouGov is notorious for a trendy-lefty contributing audience. I always check on the “results so far” button and I am always, always in a severe minority. YouGov is a self-selecting echo-chamber. The results are tailor-made for a left-of-centre leading story to back up a corrupt government point of view.

193364 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to RichardJames, #391 of 1373 🔗

Yougov has a database of people’s voting habits going back to at least 2017. They developed this because they found people actually forget how they voted in previous elections and this created problems when polling for upcoming elections.

Other pollsters use the Yougov database and in 2019 most of them got the election result bang on – or within 1% at least. Yougov’s MRP election survey results were eagerly awaited and proved to be pretty accurate. They managed to track voting intentions almost on a day to day basis.

My experience chimes with the current polling. Most people seem to favour tighter restrictions. If the tide is turning I haven’t noticed it.

193375 ▶▶▶▶ DeepBlueYonder, replying to Mayo, 2, #392 of 1373 🔗

To what extent is the sample of people they poll on their website representative of the population as a whole?

193496 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to DeepBlueYonder, 2, #393 of 1373 🔗

Yes, exactly. I suspect that they are not very representative at all, but that a lot of MPs think that it is.

193700 ▶▶▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to DeepBlueYonder, 2, #394 of 1373 🔗

Read what mayo wrote again and then ask yourself DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE PEOPLE FORGOT WHO THEY VOTED FOR IN THE LAST ELECTION or over brexit or the election before that or the first time they ever voted .This person comes on day after day to undermine you and sap your morale so ignore it .

193829 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to DeepBlueYonder, #395 of 1373 🔗

The first few surveys you take are to screen you. After that, the surveys you are invited to do are carefully selected. On top of that, the questions are often blatantly biased with no wriggle room to record your views accurately.

193493 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Mayo, 2, #396 of 1373 🔗

“My experience chimes with the current polling.”

But, as I’ve said to others on here your “experience” is not scientific.

Appearances can be deceptive.

My personal experience is that most people do not favour tighter restrictions.

Is my experience “right” and yours “wrong”?

It’s all academic anyway as we are all being subjected to lockdown promoting propaganda from the mainstream media and that is driving a lot of public opinion.

Many people are very confused about it all.

193272 wat tyler, replying to wat tyler, 4, #397 of 1373 🔗

Hey Toby can we please just have a smiling face on the mask exemption bit and not have to look at that hideous German advert ,also what’s with selling so called sexy Swedish masks ? .The point is we don’t want masks ,not here ,not in sweden ,in fact nowhere on the planet .

193835 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to wat tyler, 1, #398 of 1373 🔗

Good point but the mask images do reinforce how sinister is their mandate.

193273 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #399 of 1373 🔗

Having a read of this at the moment from the ONS comparing pneumonia/flu/covid-19 deaths over the years:


It includes this comment:

Analysis of COVID-19 deaths in this bulletin, includes only those deaths with an underlying cause of death of COVID-19, referred to as “due to COVID-19”.

This is different from deaths “involving COVID-19” used in other publications, which includes deaths that had COVID-19 mentioned anywhere on the death certificate, whether as underlying cause or not.

I like this bit:

Coronaviruses The World Health Organization (WHO) defines coronaviruses as “a large family of viruses that are known to cause illness ranging from the common cold to more severe diseases such as Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS) and Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS)”.

Between 2001 and 2018, there were 12 deaths in England and Wales due to a coronavirus infection, with a further 13 deaths mentioning the virus as a contributory factor on the death certificate.

So how did Ferguson et al link these numbers to the “we’re wall going to die” scenario in the modelling a they are not thats cary are they?

Some really good graphs, data and info in the report..

193839 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, #400 of 1373 🔗

Influenza and pneumonia was mentioned on more death certificates than COVID-19, however COVID-19 was the underlying cause of death in over three times as many deaths between January and August 2020.

I thought the underlying cause of death in the majority of cases was old age and co-morbidities! I can’t make sense of that statement.

193275 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 9, #401 of 1373 🔗

The DM is pushing the vaccine today. The common cold has no cure, but we spend millions on relieving the symptoms. Because covid, for most has no symptoms, they need a vaccine. To cure something you don’t know you have, you will need multiple vaccinations. What a world it would be if every industry behaved for the common good instead of greed.

193286 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Dan Clarke, 9, #402 of 1373 🔗

The vaccines aren’t for stopping covid, they might lessen symptoms at most. They are a facade for setting up mass digital ID systems.

193341 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to DRW, 3, #403 of 1373 🔗

Yes, it could be water as far as anyone knows, but it comes with the ID

193306 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Dan Clarke, 7, #404 of 1373 🔗

Dr Reiner Fuellmich explained in this interview that the reason why so many over 80s died in Bergamo (during the start of the so-called pandemic) is that in addition to them being cleared out of hospitals and chucked into care homes is that they received the flu vaccine around 2 weeks prior and that brought their immune systems down.


193344 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Victoria, 6, #405 of 1373 🔗

My mother died in 2017, 2 weeks after her flu jab. no major problems, even at 86, but gone overnight with respiratory problems. I’ve always felt there was more to it.

193395 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #406 of 1373 🔗

Great point. Many people after receiving a flu shot, get the flu and then state that they will never do it again. The vaccine package insert even list the symptoms of the flu as side effects. Why would you get a flu shot if it gives you flu symptoms? Strong immune systems fight things like they flu. However everyone has to decide for themselves.

Always read the package insert of any vaccine or prescribed drug before deciding to take it.

193723 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Victoria, 3, #407 of 1373 🔗

Has anyone in UK ever been offered by their NHS GP practice the package insert for the annual flu vaccine to read before having the jab? I’ve now had it 3 times in last 10 years (previous 2 only because of going to Far East) and I haven’t ever even been told of its existence!

193476 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #408 of 1373 🔗

My mum wont have one now – she was ill for a couple of months over 2018/19 after having it. She couldnt breathe at one point and we were on holiday. Her neighbour took her to hospital in the middle of the night. She was sure it was the flu jab that caused it and knows someone else who felt similar and almost died.

193276 chaos, replying to chaos, 31, #409 of 1373 🔗

Destroy Their Window of Davos Opportunity
Idea #3

I’ve never worn a mask in a shop. I do have fairly bad asthma and a touch of autism but even if I didn’t I still would refuse.

The worst that happens is someone asks you if you have a mask. All you need say is exempt. You are not required to say more than that. Usually I am not challenged. Often I just continue on my way and blank the challenger. I have never experienced hostility from other shoppers. Only once did an old guy give me a funny look.

Be brave. Stop wearing the mask.

193280 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to chaos, 7, #410 of 1373 🔗

Its true, I’ve written to a number of shops to gauge their reaction to non mask wearers and all of them have said its not a problem, they have their own staff who dont wear masks for various reasons.

193292 ▶▶ Templeton, replying to chaos, 14, #411 of 1373 🔗

You must be lucky Chaos, because Ive been called names, had people video me and have seen others take a lot of contiuned abuse as a result of not wearing one.
It is not easy to be brave and frankly I shit myself everytime Im on public transport now.
I feel for a lot of people who clearly dont want to wear one, but are truly frightened of repurcussions

193314 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to Templeton, 20, #412 of 1373 🔗

I’m 6ft1 with a 46 inch chest and I look a bit mad and dangerous (but I am not). And if it is my stature rather than my luck that has resulted in my experiencing no confrontations – then the confronters are very cowardly indeed.

Perhaps that’s it. I understand.

193850 ▶▶ GLT, replying to chaos, 3, #413 of 1373 🔗

I am a small-size middle aged female. I try to be polite and smiley and so far have not received any aggro for not wearing a mask. I think it is a question of confidence. It certainly helps that I believe that I am exempt and a lawyer.

194232 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to chaos, 1, #414 of 1373 🔗

If someone asks me if I have a mask I just reply with a very simple “no”. That has always ended the conversation immediately with no further explanation.

193282 swedenborg, 11, #415 of 1373 🔗


Yeadon has again published this astonishing graph from NHS from 12 th Oct showing in grey the amount of C-19 in hospital not at all giving the impression over a raging pandemic. These are obviously leaked NHS data and it is unclear how he got hold of it. He seems to get this information rarely. You would think there should a formal publication of this.Is this only a weekly publication?

193290 Victoria, 10, #416 of 1373 🔗

Deputy Chief MO telling Boris that you should not wear a face mask when you are healthy


193296 thinkaboutit, replying to thinkaboutit, 1, #417 of 1373 🔗

This is worrying, the jubilant tone of the mask zealot, plus the technology use.
How to stigmatise the disabled.

193312 ▶▶ PhilipF, replying to thinkaboutit, 4, #418 of 1373 🔗

Yes, another unpleasant development.

193334 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to thinkaboutit, 4, #419 of 1373 🔗

“Whiteley’s Garden Centre in Mirfield is using a Videcon system to control customers behaviour at the main entrance to the store”.

193351 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to thinkaboutit, 3, #420 of 1373 🔗

No mention of exemptions. Disability Discrimination Act now out of the window then? No doubt this will be enthusiastically adopted by many more outlets. MW

193728 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #421 of 1373 🔗

It is mentioned in the article, but no explanation of how we will be able to get in the shop. Not that I would go in a shop with that system anyway.

193882 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to ConstantBees, #422 of 1373 🔗

Quite right, me neither. I can only assume any organisation implementing this crap is being paid to do so. More psy-op (for a change!) MW

193357 ▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to thinkaboutit, 6, #423 of 1373 🔗

I entered Polhill garden centre in Sevenoaks yesterday who are using an even more sophisticated system. It scanned my face and immediately registered as ‘No Mask’ detected. It was quite a confusing entry and it was basically recording whether the numbers were safe to enter the store on a red / green basis. But the technology was out of place for a garden centre and seemed basically like face recogniition type software.

It was a quite sinister thing to see to go and buy some flower pots was an indication of the direction of travel. How long until we are barred unless we can scan correctly i.e. we have passed a test to gain entry. Most unpleasant but Sevenoaks is mask compliant central.

193384 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 7, #424 of 1373 🔗

Not sure if this type of surveillance is allowed unless you give permission for them to scan your face and keep your ‘face’ on their system. I would definitely not shop at such a place. Vote with your feet.

193388 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 4, #425 of 1373 🔗

The Sevenoaks people will soon wake up when their Audis, Range Rovers and Teslas are being stolen or they are mugged in Tunbridge Wells to fund some poor sod’s drug habit or to put food on the table.

193389 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 2, #426 of 1373 🔗

Soon it’ll be No Vax, No Entry.

193301 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 3, #427 of 1373 🔗


A brilliant twitter thread from Wes Pegden about the dwindling options of containing the pandemic. Highlight the difficulties of having co-operation of the public for too long time periods. In the end age targeted intervention is the least bad option.

193323 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to swedenborg, 1, #428 of 1373 🔗

Great spot. I’m sure the public would comply for extended periods of time, just as they did 1939-45, given clearly apparent danger.

The difference now is that it is clearly apparent to a growing number that there is no danger, or at least no more danger than from any other common cold coronavirus that we have been living with for some time.

The ONS August analysis sums it up for everyone who needs a reasonably brief quote to make the point:

‘In August 2020, there were 34,750 deaths registered in England, 2,060 deaths fewer than the five-year average (2015 to 2019) for August; in Wales, there were 2,379 deaths registered, 116 deaths fewer the five-year average for August.

The leading cause of death in August 2020 was dementia and Alzheimer’s disease in England (accounting for 10.9% of all deaths) and ischaemic heart disease in Wales (11.0% of all deaths); both leading causes of death were the same in July 2020.

The coronavirus (COVID-19) did not feature in the top ten leading causes of death in August 2020, in England or Wales. In England, COVID-19 was the 24th most common cause of death’


Next ONS monthly analysis (for September) due 23 Oct

193590 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to swedenborg, 1, #429 of 1373 🔗

My main concern with the age-targeted approach is that care homes would be turned into prisons, with few, if any, visits from relatives allowed, i.e. a continuation of the current situation for the indefinite future.

193302 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 41, #430 of 1373 🔗

Toby in the Spectator:

But it gets worse. On Monday, Professor Gupta appeared on BBC News to talk about the new lockdown measures in the north of England. Just before she went on air, one of the producers told her not to mention the declaration. Naturally, she ignored this instruction, but where did it come from? At the end of last month, Professor Susan Michie, a member of Sage, took to Twitter to complain that she’d been invited on to the Today programme to discuss focused protection on the understanding that the scientists behind it would be portrayed as beyond the pale, only for Professor Gupta to make a compelling, logical argument. ‘I’d got prior agreement from R4 about the framing of the item,’ she wrote. ‘I was assured that this would not be held as an even-handed debate.’ On whose authority had she been given that assurance?

Good on Gupta for ignoring that BBC producer.

But hasn’t Susan Michie just exposed R4, admitting that they agreed to fix the debate and favour one side over the other? Aren’t the BBC supposed to be impartial (I know, ha ha)?

193319 ▶▶ RickH, replying to A. Contrarian, 12, #431 of 1373 🔗

Let’s look on the (admittedly slim) bright side of this.

The story shows definitively that the SAGE narrative, as promulgated by Michie cannot stand up to proper scrutiny and debate.

Now this is only a start, given the massive lack of proper journalism – but they are definitely on the back foot in terms of their narrative (‘fairy story’)

193329 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to RickH, 2, #432 of 1373 🔗

Very true.

193335 ▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to RickH, #433 of 1373 🔗

SAGE are (were) seen as the Government’s official position and in line with OFCOM guidance ( https://www.ofcom.org.uk/tv-radio-and-on-demand/information-for-industry/guidance/broadcast-standards-and-coronavirus ) that seems to be the narrative that’s therefore accepted.

193321 ▶▶ Paul, replying to A. Contrarian, 22, #434 of 1373 🔗

My friend was on a BBC radio phone-in to speak to Sturgeon and before he went on he was told the things he must not mention,he ignored this and after he had spoken to her the producer was furious and gave him a good telling off !.

193325 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to A. Contrarian, 7, #435 of 1373 🔗

This needs sharing far and wide. Too many people still believe strongly in the impartiality of Auntie.

193345 ▶▶▶ James, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #436 of 1373 🔗

And the absolute holiness of our Leader in Edinburgh.

193391 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to James, 1, #437 of 1373 🔗

Effie Deans has compiled a little list of the doings of Nic il Stur Gon:

193542 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #438 of 1373 🔗

Why are R4 allowing Susan Michie, a member of the British Communist Party to try and set any agenda? They can invite her on as a guest, to ask her about her political beliefs, as i believe in free speech and strong sunlight on toxic views.

193965 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Lms23, 2, #439 of 1373 🔗

It is an absolute outrage that she was allowed to appear on the program under the assurance that “it would NOT be held as an even-handed debate” !

193548 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #440 of 1373 🔗

Susan Michie, Professor of Health Psychology & Director of Centre for Behaviour Change, UCL, on Twitter:

“They just don’t get it! Hard to understand how Govt can’t understand the simple maths of how a virus spreads – & will continue to spread. Or do they, & this is motivated obfuscation & divisiveness to distract from Govt dismantling of UK public sector & democracy.”

She is a professor of health psychology, not immunology, virology, or epidemiology, and is talking about “maths” regarding viral spread, not immunity, infectivity, etc. She’s no more qualified than the government ministers.

193304 2 pence, replying to 2 pence, -3, #441 of 1373 🔗

If people across the UK continue to work with the rest of the world for our health, and we continue to talk and share this vision of a healthier, stronger future, it will become our reality. Share, discuss and open the conversation. Find out more at http://www.decadeofhealth.com


193506 ▶▶ John P, replying to 2 pence, 1, #442 of 1373 🔗

It looks like a vaccine promotion site. Gates has his name to it, so it won’t receive any positive reviews here.

I’ve been reading a textbook on virology recently, published in 2005. The author writes about the various types of vaccines, but is careful always to highlight not only the advantages, but also the possible disadvantages and dangers of vaccines. They all have them.

The biggest problem with Gates is that he promotes vaccines without ever saying that they have any dangers associated with them. His lack of candour about this invites – perhaps not unreasonably – a lot of criticism and suspicion and some have come to view him as a cynical eugenicist.

I don’t see Gates are intentionally evil, just misguided, and for that reason, I do think he is potentially dangerous.

193532 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to 2 pence, #443 of 1373 🔗

I’ve noticed an advert, not paid proper attention to it.
Maybe I should get informed. I always say you need to know your enemy to fight them.

193305 microdave, replying to microdave, 5, #444 of 1373 🔗

Mr Blair is considered a private ­citizen

But Mr Blair doesn’t consider himself to be a private citizen…

193336 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to microdave, 3, #445 of 1373 🔗

He thinks he’s king of the world. Or its saviour.

193340 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to microdave, #446 of 1373 🔗

Someone needs to buy that evil tosser a one way ticket to Malaysia. Hang the bastard.

193359 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to microdave, #447 of 1373 🔗

He’s special, the number of bodyguards he needs, prove it

193536 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to microdave, #448 of 1373 🔗

Who unlocked his crypt to let him go to the U.S.?
Need stronger locks….

193309 EllGee, 18, #449 of 1373 🔗

Was at an outdoor event yesterday. 300 ticketed people rather than the normal 600+ a day that just turn up. Saw a lot of people not seen for months and without exception the talk was “enough now”. Nothing revolutionary for people who write on here but for that group it was remarkable for change of opinion since back in March/April. They wouldn’t be missing their grandchild’s birthday party, they would be going to Blackpool for the Illuminations, had a coffee with the neighbours for months now and still will be, the house will be decorated for Halloween. Just little things but it helped make for one of the best days for ages

193311 chaos, replying to chaos, 26, #450 of 1373 🔗

“Another said many of her neighbours had told her they would be at the march, but when she got to the station it was deserted.”

2020 has been an odd, awful year for me. I understand some have had it worse. I had county lines drug dealers move in next door last year. Guns, knives.. London yoof in my garden hiding from police. When I pleaded with neighbors to help. All pledged their unwavering support. Yet only two did. I know this because the police told me. Luckily we got them out (full closure order) just before lockdown otherwise I would have been stuck with them due to the covid ban on evictions. I lost my pet of 8 years. Unable to get proper vet treatment (and not wanting the madness of handing an animal over at the side door socially distanced) I tried to fix him on my own. I can’t write much more than that without crying. I feel such guilt. I had friends and family all buy into the propaganda. Having worked out something was fishy by April, I was a lonely Icke/Jones voice for months trying to get people to listen. I’ve had to go back on a low dose antidep along with glycine, inositol etc to try and keep mood stable so I don’t keep thinking of suicide.

This is why as a Thelemite I reject God yet pray and invoke all the same. These trials… too many.

All I ever wondered was how did it get this far? When all I ever wanted was a house and a car… and a family.

193470 ▶▶ John Galt, replying to chaos, 6, #451 of 1373 🔗

I think standing up for what you believe in is one of the best traits a person can have. It’s also one of the rarest traits around nowadays. Especially with the rise of social media, people just seem to follow whatever the popular view is, they don’t seem to actually consider things for themselves.

You should always be proud yourself, always remember that.

193541 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to John Galt, 3, #452 of 1373 🔗

Bodo Schiffmann, the German doctor who was one of the first to ask questions and publish videos examining the official numbers and explaining the difference between a + test and illness, celebrated like a semi-god, his reason for standing up was that he felt like he could look at himself in the mirror in the morning and say, yes, I feel good about myself, as I work to protect my children now and their future.
If you feel good about what you do, you are doing the right thing.

193551 ▶▶▶▶ John Galt, replying to Silke David, 5, #453 of 1373 🔗

He felt like he could look at himself in the mirror in the morning and say, yes, I feel good about myself

This is exactly why I could never bring myself to wear a mask. People say “oh, it’s easier” and I’m sure it is, but I’d get home and think “christ, I’ve gone against my beliefs for ease ?”

193776 ▶▶▶▶▶ watashi, replying to John Galt, 1, #454 of 1373 🔗

Exactly this. Plus we have a duty to resist.

193471 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to chaos, 1, #455 of 1373 🔗

I blame Crowley for all the madness that’s inflicted the world since the turn of the 20th century. He woke something up at Boleskine house that should never have been stirred. 😉

193528 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Mr Dee, #456 of 1373 🔗

You’ve been watching too much UK Column or specifically, David Scott.

193313 Paul, replying to Paul, 19, #457 of 1373 🔗

Our local paper here in Lincolnshire is again doing it’s weekly bit of scaremongering.
‘ Cases in the district rocket by 190 in just a few days’ ( a district that I think has around 60,000 inhabitants) and ’11 positive cases in just one school’.In my experience a lot of the older people around here take what is printed in this paper as gospel so it is disgracefully stoking their fear.
The paper always has a ‘but life is great really and aren’t people so kind’ type stories every week too,they usually go something like this ( I made the following up but it’s what the stories are like),
‘We found out that 101 year old Mrs Crumblecake hasn’t been outside since February 10th and is low on supplies.Luckily our brave boys and girls of the local fire service rose to the challenge and used their new £2 million drone to deliver some goodies to her’,this would be with a photo of a despondent looking Mrs Crumblecake peering out of her bedroom window whilst grinning fire service personnel place a family pack of toilet rolls on her doorstep using their drone.
Then there is the ‘what about the kiddies ?’ type of story,
‘Little 6 year old Joshua sent us a letter saying that he was very sad that most of the people in the world had died of a virus and he was sad that he can’t do his favourite things anymore,his football club is closed,he can’t go swimming,the park is closed,his dance club is closed and he can’t play with his friends at school but it is okay because his mummy says that he is helping to keep everyone safe.We ran this story last week and Mr Kahn of Berts Pound Shop has kindly donated a Playstation to Joshua so he can keep busy at home’,the photo of this would have a socially distanced,smiling Mr Kahn handing little Joshua his Playstation in front of his parents house that has a thankyou NHS banner and more painted rainbows than you would see in an episode of the Care Bears stuck in the windows.

193317 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 8, #458 of 1373 🔗


Our local rag had a full-page spread from the B’I’D with a lovely pink heart at the middle with lovely photos of all the business owners (save one, obvs) saying a big “thank you” to all the lovely customers for their continued support during this “difficult time” … It was cringe-making.

193328 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 5, #459 of 1373 🔗

The local papers are awful at the best of times but they are loving this Covid nonsense,god knows how many times they use ‘crisis’ and ‘safe’ in one edition.

193443 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Paul, 1, #460 of 1373 🔗

comment to all those people that read “local press”
As mentioned before, there are 150 BBC employees scattered around local papers acting as “ local democracy reporters ” who are influencing what is reported. i.e BBC propaganda This is the list of who is where they are .
So dont expect anything not on message!

193339 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Paul, 3, #461 of 1373 🔗

Our local rag is TOXIC. I stopped buying it March I will never buy it again.

193354 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Paul, 1, #462 of 1373 🔗

You should switch sides as you are really good at this propaganda lark. Isn’t it great how science fiction has become reality, and what would once have looked like satire is entirely believable.

193318 Smelly Melly, replying to Smelly Melly, 3, #463 of 1373 🔗

Just a wild guess, but when or if this madness ends and an enquiry held. Will the conclusions be “Lessons have been learnt”. Or am I being cynical?

193322 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Smelly Melly, 2, #464 of 1373 🔗

“Should have been harder and earlier” probably.

193332 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Smelly Melly, 3, #465 of 1373 🔗

I think there are certain sections (us) that will not allow this to be brushed under the carpet.

193349 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Smelly Melly, 6, #466 of 1373 🔗

No,you are under the impression that after this everything will just go back to normal.We have had a coup, it’s just people do not realise it

193530 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Smelly Melly, #467 of 1373 🔗

There won’t be an inquiry. And I’m not sure it’s going to end…

193338 Shep, replying to Shep, 16, #468 of 1373 🔗

local papers never give stats on deaths from cancers and all the other treatable problems that have been sidelined. its criminal, cynical and evil. they truly are the gutter.

193374 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Shep, 1, #469 of 1373 🔗

If the national MSM is so comprehensively useless in terms of actual ‘journalism’ as we know it, it’s hardly surprising that the local press conglomerates are just a cut-an-paste effort.

It’s been the case for a long time. Twenty years ago, I remember bollocking a journalist for coverage of a particular story. His response :

“Well – you’ve got to make a story.”

It’s always stuck with me as a comment

… and that was when the local rag at least pretended to still have ‘journalists’ rather than just short-trousered wannabe’s

193545 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Shep, 1, #470 of 1373 🔗

I still buy a physical paper every week to support the jobs. Although not from my newsagent for now as they are covid hysterical.

193342 chaos, 2, #471 of 1373 🔗

the great covid reset always makes think of this

193343 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 12, #472 of 1373 🔗

All this scaremongering of hosipitals being full. Has anybody from government, MSM, SAGE got off their fat arse and actually visited these hospitals to see for themselves.

No, they are too busy stoking their ego by appearing on TV talking shit.

193383 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to stefarm, 3, #473 of 1373 🔗

Or, have they actually ventured out to speak to their constituents?

193394 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to kh1485, #474 of 1373 🔗

Nope, I’ve written to my MP (SNP) 4 times now, apart from a generic out of office (I’m too busy, blah blah please bear with me) she hasn’t even acknowledged my emails.

193392 ▶▶ Smelly Melly, replying to stefarm, 4, #475 of 1373 🔗

I understand that the MSM reported that Blackpool hospital was full because of C19 cases. However, what they didn’t report was 8 beds in the hospital were allocated to C19 patents and they were all used. But the hospital has 760 beds and they were no where near capacity.

193405 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Smelly Melly, #476 of 1373 🔗

Yep, my understanding is each hospital has got a tiny allocation of covid beds. All bullshit and the masses are lappig it up and let’s not forget the beds are probably full of people who were already in hospital and have had a dodgy + test.

193346 Deirdre Trotman, 6, #477 of 1373 🔗

It’s hardly surprising that many young people are wearing masks. They have been shielded and protected all their young lives by the nanny state – perfect candidates for control through fear porn.

193348 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 9, #478 of 1373 🔗

Daily Mail: LORD SUMPTION: I’m yet to meet a person who plans to obey mixing ban.

193368 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #479 of 1373 🔗

The comments are quite scary.There are some very stupid people in this country.

193699 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #480 of 1373 🔗

I always start with the Best Rated comments. Usually full of sceptics. Who cares what the last random commenter said?

193382 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #481 of 1373 🔗

Sadly it’s become clear that there are many people willing to dob others in for not obeying…

193352 chaos, replying to chaos, 2, #482 of 1373 🔗

In twenty-twenty
We do not dance
We fix pandemics
with Tour de France

193356 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to chaos, #483 of 1373 🔗

I suppose masked boxing matches will be next

193355 p02099003, replying to p02099003, #484 of 1373 🔗

This interchange between myself (sceptic56) and leicester911 is interesting, but not unexpected:

193362 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to p02099003, 1, #485 of 1373 🔗

A case medically is anyone with a positive test symptoms or not! – sums it up really, take your pick 77B or general ignorance, dangerous either way!

193417 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to stefarm, 4, #486 of 1373 🔗

This comment of mine is awaiting moderation!
The test you had for chicken pox was for the antibodies, not the virus, which a test couldn’t find as it is in the nerves, which as someone working in healthcare would know, I too had that test and for hepatitis B.
This is the definition of a case from Dr Malcolm Kendrick “Previously, in the world of infectious diseases, it has been accepted that a ‘case’ represents someone with symptoms, usually severe symptoms, usually severe enough to be admitted to hospital.“
Where has Carl Heneghan been “disproved”? References please.
What about John Lee, Sunetra Gupta and others?
The RT-PCR test picks up any fragment of RNA from SARS-COV-2, it cannot determine whether the person is infected never mind being infectious. CoViD19 is the disease caused by SARS-COV-2, and like HIV/AIDS, having the virus doesn’t mean you have the disease.
Some personal information, my mother died of sepsis 14 years ago, so do not accuse me of lacking compassion. The median age of those who have died with a positive test for SARS-COV-2 is 82. What about compassion for those who were stage 1 treatable cancer who are now stage 3 or 4 untreatable cancer?

193435 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to p02099003, 2, #487 of 1373 🔗

its there now

193486 ▶▶ anon, replying to p02099003, #488 of 1373 🔗


193527 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to p02099003, 1, #489 of 1373 🔗

That website is horrendous to try and read, the page keeps jumping all over the place. Tried to read some comments and gave up.

193358 captainbeefheart, replying to captainbeefheart, 10, #490 of 1373 🔗

I think I’ve moved from the depression stage to “filled with murderous rage” stage. This is dangerous. Any there any shrinks out there that might want to share with us how one deals with these dark emotions?


193370 ▶▶ chaos, replying to captainbeefheart, 7, #491 of 1373 🔗

I admire those that just continue life mostly without masks, knowing something seems a tad off, I guess expecting all of this to at some point end without too much damage…

193483 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to captainbeefheart, 4, #492 of 1373 🔗

Attempting a serious answer, not that I’m a shrink but see if this is useful:
Murderous rage is a fundamental human/animal response (as also is terror) which then interacts with our emotions, memory and experience to create anger. Anger is a massively important driving force of energy that, used well, protects us from harm.
Work out how best to use your anger – routinely and daily – or if not ‘the best way’ just find ‘a way’. That’s a combination of:
(1) keeping informed and joining debates and encouraging other sceptics;
(2) keep things that you value continuing (friendship, family, pubs, artistic endeavours, hobbies, whatever)
(3) Pushback: talking to people, writing letters, creating and distributing leaflets, financial contributions if you can, etc.

193363 crimsonpirate, 3, #493 of 1373 🔗

having a drink in Croydon with some people and their covid alert on their phones showed medium and High risk. Given the app refers to post codes it won’t correspond to the boroughs of London. When London expanded its boundaries in the 60’s the outlying areas retained their post codes eg Enfield Middlesex.

193369 DeepBlueYonder, replying to DeepBlueYonder, 8, #494 of 1373 🔗

New Royal Statistical Society Working Group, see: https://rss.org.uk/RSS/media/File-library/News/Press%20release/Royal-Statistical-Society-to-review-lack-of-statistical-evidence-around-diagnostic-tests-24-September-2020.pdf

“The RSS Working Group on Diagnostic Tests has been created in response to concerns about a lack of basic statistical evidence on clinical and analytical performance of a number of new diagnostic tests that are available–including the polymerase chain reaction(PCR) test widely used in the UK to detect Covid-19. The experts are calling for stronger statistical standards going forward, which they seek to inform […]

“The RSS has been concerned that, during the Covid-19 outbreak, many new diagnostic tests for SARS-CoV-2 antigen or antibodies have come to market for use both in clinical practice and for surveillance without adequate provision for statistical evaluation of their clinical and analytical performance.

The working group’s key aim is to review the statistical evidence needed to assure the performance of new tests, for patients, decision-makers and regulators, with particular reference to IVDs for infectious diseases.”

The Working Group can be contacted via the RSS website – perhaps any professional statisticians here might be able to input into this work?

193377 ▶▶ RickH, replying to DeepBlueYonder, 6, #495 of 1373 🔗

That’s interesting. Given the properly restrained language, this is confirming that the PCR test is being used as a diagnostic tool without any proper validation – i.e is indeed the scam that we believe it to be.

193371 AnotherSceptic, replying to AnotherSceptic, 1, #496 of 1373 🔗

The Arseholes at Yahoo are intent to maintain the fear.


193523 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to AnotherSceptic, #497 of 1373 🔗

And there were no hidden pre-existing problems with his heart?
The number of people who have died under the age of 60 and without pre-existing conditions is tiny, just a few hundred in this country.

193372 davews, 9, #498 of 1373 🔗

Just back after our weekly church Zoom service. Some prayers about ‘this awful virus’ as expected. Afterwards the discussion drifted onto flu jabs and how some had had this at walk through community halls. ‘Practice for the real one…’. Clearly everybody there has been taken in by the media nonsense. Piped in ‘there will never be a virus’ but after the response said my excuses and left. It is clear what we are up against when it is obvious by the tie any vaccine comes the virus will have totally disappeared, but they obviously cannot see that.

193380 Dan Clarke, 6, #499 of 1373 🔗

The programmes of the BBC earned Britain a powerful reputation for credibility that proved an asset long after the war ended. George Orwell later observed: “The BBC as far as its news goes has gained enormous prestige since about 1940 … ‘I heard it on the radio’ is now almost equivalent to ‘I know it must be true.’” Propaganda is still the same today

193387 ChrisH29, replying to ChrisH29, 41, #500 of 1373 🔗

Where is the opposition? Where is the dissent? Why has not a single individual, politician, industrialist etc. taken up the mantle? There is surely an opportunity for someone now that the data is out there and unambiguous.
There needs to be a figurehead for the opposition to keep the narrative focused and pertinent. For example, now everyone is talking about the Tiers, the lockdowns or the face-masks. These are all sidelines, the real issue is the underlying Government narrative, which is that Covid is an unusually destructive and deadly disease, but that it not the case.
The latest data from NHS England & Worldometer.info demonstrate that this is just another pathogen the like of which we have dealt with for centuries without even passing comment. This data is not adjusted for the fact that the number of Covid deaths is wildly exaggerated:
1. Only 3% of “Covid” victims over 80 years of age did NOT have a pre diagnosed comorbidity.
2. 907 persons under 80 have died within 28 days of a PCR test without a pre-diagnosed comorbidity
3. 313 Of working age (under 60) have died with the same proviso.
4. More than half of all victims (>53%) were more than 80 years of age.
5. The death toll does not require a test nor a clinical diagnosis of Covid, nor the opinion of 2 separate doctors.
6. HIV/AIDS has killed more people this year than Covid
7. Four times as many people have died from smoking this year
8. Four times as many people have starved to death this year
9. Twice as many have died from alcohol this year
10. As many people have died on the road in 2020 as been attributed to Covid.
11. There are no unique symptoms on which to base a clinical diagnosis.
12. The unique definition of ‘cases’ for Covid is a positive PCR test. This is NOT the same as disease or infection. To be defined as diseased or infected for any other disease symptoms are required as well, usually, a positive test if such exists.
13. Total deaths 2019/20 are 5% FEWER than 1999/2000 adjusted for population
For the old in poor health, suffering from a serious illness it is quite likely that any new strain on their system; flu, a fall, mild food poisoning, depression etc. will prove too much and result in death. In such circumstances the cause of death would almost never be classified as flu, or mild food poisoning etc. but by the serious illness from which they suffered; cancer, ischaemic heart disease, dimentia etc.. In each of these cases, were the ‘straw’ Covid rather than flu or a cold for example, it would most certainly be on the death certificate and be included in the Government’s inflated figures. Despite this, flu deaths are currently
The majority of those “infected” with SARS CoV-2 do not develop Covid, neither are they infectious yet we are led to believe that we are all potential Typhoid Marys. This is not the case. The majority of those infected of ALL ages survive this condition with no ill effects, yet every single person who dies shortly after a positive test is categorised as a Covid death. That is unequivocally nonsense, it is absurd to suggest it , yet that is a ‘faux fact’ on which economically destructive, liberty denying policy is being based.
The real issue is not the specific imposition of absurd anti-democratic laws but the misinformation. Arguing about masks, lockdown or social distancing, all useless, achieves nothing & suits the fear mongers for they are red herrings; the battle ground should be the truth, the DATA.
If a coherent, credible figurehead could be found or step forward to lead the re-education against the fear mongering Johnson, Wancock, Wittless, Unbalanced, the BBC et al there would be a light at the end of the tunnel, until then we are descending into Dystopia with ‘useful idiots’ like Chris Green, MP in Bolton proclaiming these lockdowns to be “… over the coming years.”
There – I got it off my chest, perhaps I can stop screaming at the moon now? I might even get some sleep one day soon.

193397 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to ChrisH29, 9, #501 of 1373 🔗

Good points but facts don’t matter. Nobody cares. Sadly.

193404 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Two-Six, 9, #502 of 1373 🔗

No. The sheep just keep falling for the sPiKiNg CaSeS soundbites.

What good is the truth if nobody believes it?

193407 ▶▶ John P, replying to ChrisH29, #503 of 1373 🔗

“we are led to believe that we are all potential Typhoid Marys.”

Typhoid is a bacterial infection. It is an entirely different sort of pathogen to a virus. Viruses cannot be carried in this way.

‘useful idiots’ like Chris Green, MP in Bolton”

I’m not sure how you can classify Chris Green as a “useful idiot”? He resigned his post in protest. His comment about restrictions was disturbing, but like MP Lt Col Ellwood (of the 77th Brigade) – who commented on twitter about a “new world order” – he may just have been saying it to get attention.

(I regard Ellwood’s comment as trolling and a cynical attempt to encourage lockdown sceptic damaging conspiracy theories.)

By contrast there are a hardcore of MPs and journalists (including the one who produces this site) that are complaining as loudly as they can about the lockdowns.

Iain Duncan Smith, Graham Brady, Desmond Swayne and Charles Walker being perhaps chief among the MPs protesting. Maybe as Tories they are not your cup of tea? Not the right sort of lockdown sceptics?

And there are legal challenges being mounted.

Apart from “screaming at the moon” what are you doing?

193462 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to John P, 1, #504 of 1373 🔗

John P – please reply in a normal friendly discursive manner.You appear to make interesting points but if you want me to read what you write, then make it a pleasant experience to do so.

193481 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Rosie, 3, #505 of 1373 🔗

I’m sorry Rosie, but I am not going to self censor.

You do not police my speech.

If I feel strongly about something then I’m going to say it.

You can’t please everyone in life.

If you don’t want to read what I write then I am happy with that.

It is your choice.

193508 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to John P, 2, #506 of 1373 🔗

I’m not talking about self-censorship, I’m talking about making your meaning clear! quite the opposite. Perhaps some people will make the effort, but I’m not wading past all your cynicism and rudeness which merely hide your opinions.
It’s your choice but if you want to be read, make it readable.

193679 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Rosie, 2, #507 of 1373 🔗

I’m not sure what you mean, Rosie. I didn’t have any problems understanding what John is trying to say. I didn’t find it particularly offensive, especially in light of the personal insults I’ve seen on the site recently. John didn’t insult anyone, he just disagreed with the OP.

194246 ▶▶▶ ChrisH29, replying to John P, #508 of 1373 🔗

Did you really take issue with Typhoid Mary on the basis of typhoid being bacterial? Oh dear. You need help.

194267 ▶▶▶ ChrisH29, replying to John P, 2, #509 of 1373 🔗

Chris Green resigned in OCTOBER, having sat for months doing SFA but watch the destruction of our economy & the killing of thousands by NHS rationing, as did the entire parliamentary Conservative Party, Labour Party etc. They collectively did nothing to oppose NPIs for which there was not and still isn’t evidence of efficacy.
MPs have a primary & fundamental obligation to act in the interests of their constituents, this they have failed to even try to do. Permitting by inaction the de facto rule by diktat, the suppression of our ancient liberties is an abdication of their obligations.
To impose any restrictions on the people requires proof positive of efficacy, not the ravings of inept academics with little or no knowledge of the issues & consequences.
For Green to resign now while spreading more fear, promoting the idea of permanent imprisonment of the people by a tyrannical Government isn’t good enough.
As for Toby, I am well aware of his efforts and am extremely grateful for them along with Hitchens, InProportion2, Heneghan, Sikora, Yeadon et al, but none of that detracts from the central thesis – where is the leadership to provide a coherent, coordinated & focussed campaign oppose this abuse.

193390 David McCluskey, replying to David McCluskey, 7, #510 of 1373 🔗

Ovis , I could have written your first paragraph myself, but not as elegantly.

And as for your,

“The problem is that British institutions now work on a control and compliance model. Even where checks and balances formally exist, in practice they have been tamed. Actual decision making takes place among a tiny number of people, with opaque processes and no statement of criteria or priorities. In any but the most normal circumstances, decisions are going to be crap, and then complied with throughout the system.”

The first institutions to succumb were education and science. And of course the “taming” has been achieved by tight reins on funding (penalties for straying, rewards for compliance). Were, say, a free-spirited scientist brave enough to suggest pursuing a line of investigation that challenges institutional bias, their funding would dry up.

The dumbing-down agenda in education, the endless promotion of ‘team work’ (shorthand for conforming, and the extinguishing of individual spirit), the no platforming agenda of institutions, etc; in short, large scale social engineering on a more and more granular level. It is alarming. Who voted for this?

193401 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to David McCluskey, 4, #511 of 1373 🔗

Everyone who voted for socialism, for that is what it is…..

193414 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #512 of 1373 🔗

Yawn. More delusion.

No. It’s been neoliberalism – neoliberalism continuously ever since Thatcher acceded to it running riot and allowed the monster of global finance and corporatism to run out of control.

And the implementation of this shit show has been by the Tory Party. There hasn’t been anything like ‘socialism’ in charge for 40 years, and the last thing that Starmer is with his pathetic shadowing of Mr Toad is ‘socialist’ however defined.

Simple facts, no matter how much those facts contradict prejudice.

193426 ▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to RickH, 6, #513 of 1373 🔗

Neoliberalism is socialism for corporates.

See the banks and 2008.

193440 ▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to RickH, 2, #514 of 1373 🔗

Public spending increased in real terms for every year except two of the Thatcher premiership.

Post war Democratic Liberal Socialism is still Socialism, red in tooth and claw, as we see writ large across the world, today……..

193513 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to RickH, 4, #515 of 1373 🔗

The only “liberalism” is with people’s sex lives.
Free speech and all other people’s freedoms have been under slow but sustained attack since Blair, ie the salami-slice approach.
The State is now bigger than ever and all-encompassing. I’m not going to defend the Tories on this. They’ve been a continuation of Blair’s New Labour project, and couldn’t be described as conservative except by the most hopefully deluded.
We’re not under full-blown socialism yet, but we might as well be, with a bankrupted economy, and a government that’s apparently found the fabled Magic Money Tree, the police more concerned about someone’s hurt feeling than someone being robbed or assaulted, political policing, and the government treating its own citizens as the enemy.
As far as most Tory voters are concerned, Labour and Tory parties are just two cheeks of the same left-wing a*se.

193511 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to David McCluskey, 3, #516 of 1373 🔗

Thankyou for the mention, David.

You are right to flag up education as an instance of the pattern – and especially I would say Higher Education (just because there is still a belief that HE is autonomous). Universities are autonomous on paper, but controlled principally through the funding councils. The advent of OfStud just underlines what was already an established system of control and compliance. Not that OfStud is doing a great job of standing up for students right now! But that just makes the point. It’s not about students; it’s about tightening control. So we see all the good little VCs treating their own students like biological waste, clearly on the orders of central government.

As to the politics of it, look guys: both the Blue Party and the Red Party tighten the ratchet. Neither ever makes any serious attempt to reverse the ratchet. This malaise goes deeper than the Left-Right divide, at least as represented in our mainstream politics. The best political explanation I can see comes from Joseph Tainter ( The Collapse of Complex Societies – read and weep).

193408 Liz F, replying to Liz F, 8, #517 of 1373 🔗

A small thing, but I just tried to access three Telegraph articles from the links in today’s LS post, fully expecting to meet their paywall as I’m not a subscriber. So I wasn’t surprised that I couldn’t read the articles by Michael Deacon “The fight back against these miserable new tiers has already begun” (and he’s on their side) or the one by Juliet Samuel “Herd immunity could now be our least bad option”. What surprised me was that I was able to read the whole of the article by MP Neil O’Brien, “I’ve crunched the numbers and a herd immunity strategy would lead to a lot of deaths” – no paywall there. Seems a bit weird. Cue the X-files music…

193547 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Liz F, 1, #518 of 1373 🔗

The one by O’Brien is not behind the paywall. Some coronavirus articles seem to be made freely available. I’m not sure what rationale they’re using to select such articles.

193577 ▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Tenchy, 1, #519 of 1373 🔗

Brainwashing, obviously. Anything pro lockdown, pro muzzle, pro fear narrative is available to read.

193705 ▶▶▶▶ Liz F, replying to Lili, #520 of 1373 🔗

Exactly! Treat people like mushrooms: feed them sh*t and keep them in the dark.

193409 Smelly Melly, replying to Smelly Melly, 25, #521 of 1373 🔗

After WW2 people asked why did the German people allow the rise of Hitler and fascism? Now they know.

193436 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Smelly Melly, 4, #522 of 1373 🔗

A lot of parallels.Repression was a gradual process in Nazi Germany and under cover of war turned into full scale genocide

193505 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Smelly Melly, 6, #523 of 1373 🔗

As has been said elsewhere, now people know how they’d have behaved under German occupation….

193574 ▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Lms23, 6, #524 of 1373 🔗

I always thought I would be part of the resistance; now I KNOW I would be.

193552 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Smelly Melly, 6, #525 of 1373 🔗

As a native German I have been saying this since end of March.

193411 AnotherSceptic, replying to AnotherSceptic, 12, #526 of 1373 🔗

I thought that it wasn’t mandatory to wear face masks?
The police in Manchester are now fining people for not wearing one, regardless of exemption.


I hope the people who got fines don’t pay it.

193415 ▶▶ Paul, replying to AnotherSceptic, 12, #527 of 1373 🔗

‘if exempt bring proof ‘, I don’t think so,once again the Police don’t know the law.I’m also glad there is no more important crime to deal with in Manchester.

193421 ▶▶▶ alittleparty, replying to Paul, 7, #528 of 1373 🔗

Fascist pigs

193424 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Paul, 5, #529 of 1373 🔗

Can’t be enough snitched kids parties to break up.

193591 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Paul, 2, #530 of 1373 🔗

It’s important to note that a “relevant person” can issue you with a fixed penalty notice (FPN) if they don’t believe that you have a reasonable excuse for not wearing a face covering. See the “Fines and offences” section of Law or Fiction’s face covering page for details.

Consequently, you will need to have a “something” to use to convince your challenger that you are exempt. The law does not dictate what that something is, but if your challenger is not convinced, then you can be issued with a FPN. It is then your choice whether you suck it up and pay (half the cost, if within 14 days of issuance), or whether you take it to court and argue the toss there.

I keep a self-signed low mood exemption for such purposes. I have never had to use it, so I can’t testify to its effectiveness.

Remember that the general public cannot challenge you. Only a “relevant person” can challenge you. As per section 5.9 of the regulations, the current list of relevant persons is:

  • A constable.
  • A police community support officer.
  • A TfL officer working at a TfL transport hub.
  • A person designated by the Secretary of State for the purposes of enforcing “The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Wearing of Face Coverings in a Relevant Place) (England) Regulations 2020”.

If you want a convenient document to show to would-be challengers, you might consider printing out one of my discriminatory challenges documents.

Please note that I am a cow, not a lawyer.

193716 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Mabel Cow, 2, #531 of 1373 🔗

In that case, Mabel, they could say they don’t believe you regardless of what you show them. Anything is acceptable proof, because *nothing* is required. Gov guidance mentions “a home made sign”. The legislation makes no mention whatsoever of proof of exemption – it doesn’t say you do or you don’t need it. Guidance, however says you should not be challenged. I’m reading all this as “If you refuse, you are breaking the law, but if you are exempt, you are within the law.”
I should also point out that I am a fictional Watch Commander, not a lawyer 🙂

193863 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #532 of 1373 🔗

To my reading, the regulations provide a lot of wiggle room for the relevant person to say “I don’t believe you” for a broad range of reasons.

Section 7.1 says, “An authorised person may issue a fixed penalty notice to anyone that the authorised person reasonably believes (a) has committed an offence under these Regulations, and (b) is aged 18 or over.” (emphasis mine).

However, I believe that (with the possible exception of Manchester recently), the police have been told to accept any reasonable excuse without kicking off.

I believe this because the crime stats show only 28 fixed penalty notices having been issued (up to 2020-09-21) for breaches of the face covering regulations (in a retail setting; transport settings add another 61).

It could be argued that this is because the general public are 99.99999% behind the regulations, but it strikes me as more likely that the government doesn’t want the regulations challenged in court.

The more FPNs the police hand out, the more chance there is that some Awkward Git will contest their FPN loudly in court. A judgement favourable to the cause of the bare faced would certainly not support the government’s totalitarian aspirations.

193702 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Paul, 2, #533 of 1373 🔗

And what will they take as acceptable ‘proof’? Seeing as the government guidance says “even a home made sign”, a piece of cornflake box with ‘exempt’ written on would be sufficient.

193418 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to AnotherSceptic, 18, #534 of 1373 🔗

Bring proof of exemption?! WTF, are you supposed to carry your medical history around with you? Put on the mask and have a panic attack to demonstrate the effects? More fear propaganda and wrong.

193429 ▶▶▶ AnotherSceptic, replying to Sarigan, 4, #535 of 1373 🔗

The way thing’s are going now, they will probably make you carry your medical history about with you.
Also, if you read the comments on the article, someone commented about all the people looking like sheep wearing them, to which, some scared pansy replied “not as bad as the people in ICU with tubes hanging out of them”

193425 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to AnotherSceptic, 8, #536 of 1373 🔗

As a comment on Twitter said, there will be the equivalent of PPI claims for these Covid measures and behaviours of the police. Doesn’t matter if it never gets to court. You can claim against the police themselves for not following the law.

It’s a massive can of worms.

193539 ▶▶▶ Andy C, replying to mhcp, 1, #537 of 1373 🔗

For that reason, I almost hope they try it on with me. I carry (albeit on my phone) pictures of my diagnostic documents. ‘Contributions’ to the holiday I intend to take once this is over are very much welcomed.

193431 ▶▶ RickH, replying to AnotherSceptic, #538 of 1373 🔗

Might be useful to republish links to (a) the regulations and (b) the guidance for people to use.

193432 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to RickH, #539 of 1373 🔗

Also citizens’ rights when accosted by the police.

193433 ▶▶▶ AnotherSceptic, replying to RickH, #540 of 1373 🔗

True. & then forward them to the police in Manchester.

193518 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to AnotherSceptic, 2, #541 of 1373 🔗

Rather than proof of exemption people should carry a transcript of the regulation and hand it to them instead.

193520 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Achilles, #542 of 1373 🔗

Available here .

193540 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to AnotherSceptic, 2, #543 of 1373 🔗

Is there a lower form of life than the police? I can’t think of one.

193588 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Tenchy, 2, #544 of 1373 🔗

The people giving them their orders

193697 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to AnotherSceptic, 1, #545 of 1373 🔗

Comment on that story:

11 min ago
There is no medical evidence that wearing a face covering is detrimental to health under any circumstances, Just wear one


193420 2 pence, 1, #546 of 1373 🔗

It was a survey I received today. Also asked where I thought the country was on covid & also the world. It was the extra questions bit after the usual boring survey about what telly you watch.
If anyone was ever in ANY doubt about the direction the Govt is planning to go in with the vaccine, they might find this interesting. I’ve just been sent a YouGov survey (I get them fairly regularly)



193423 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 1, #547 of 1373 🔗

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54499758 diary of a physician in Bradford

193579 ▶▶ mjr, replying to p02099003, 1, #548 of 1373 🔗

“the hospital remains in its own Narnia” wtf does that mean? You can only enter via a wardrobe? Or the article is a complete piece of fiction, indeed a fairy tale,

“But there is another change. This time we are no longer heroes” you never were !!!

“Ian, a semi-retired accountant, says he doesn’t know how he caught the virus………. “We haven’t even been going round to see people, and we’ve been wearing masks whenever we went shopping”” So social distancing and wearing nappies is really effective!!!!! .

193428 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 1, #549 of 1373 🔗
193437 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 1, #550 of 1373 🔗

Figures don’t seem to warrant it:


193447 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Sarigan, 2, #551 of 1373 🔗

Despite all of the reasonableness of the Swedish response so far, it would be naive of us to think that they can resist the global pressure, which must be considerable.

Have the Swedish authorities waited 7 months to show how ‘incompetent’ they are.

193586 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to calchas, 1, #552 of 1373 🔗

They are probably under pressure from abroad but also at home – I am sure there are plenty of Swedes ready to blame the government for every death, who want to be “more” protected. They are humans, like the rest of us, with similar flaws.

Tegnell is not, publicly at least, and has never been, a “let it rip” merchant who thinks the virus is not a serious threat. He has always been very cautious, has never said it was over, and they are set to carry on with the guidance until well into next year. It was always about a sustainable flattening of the curve over a long period.

I think they have been overly cautious, but that’s easy for me to say. It’s a very conservative approach, a middle ground. In my limited experience from spending a week there, way preferable, if for no other reason than you feel the authorities regard you as an adult not a loony or a biohazard.

193473 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Sarigan, -6, #553 of 1373 🔗

Finally catching up with the rest of the world.

193583 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to DRW, 1, #554 of 1373 🔗


I read this and it’s old news – stuff that was announced a while ago. The way read it, any additional measures will almost certainly be guidance only, and additional measures/guidance is only being considered and prepared – nothing actually in place yet

It is light years away from what is happening here

193790 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Julian, #555 of 1373 🔗

I’m just concerned that Sweden will eventually cave into the LD/mask orthodoxy under international pressure.

193535 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Sarigan, #556 of 1373 🔗

But why? On 15 Oct there were no deaths and 600 “cases”:


193556 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Sarigan, #557 of 1373 🔗

Would not pay much attention to it. Seems like someone needed to fill a gap and get a headline to sell advertising.

193434 alittleparty, 8, #558 of 1373 🔗

As the frenchman Jean-Baptiste Alphonse Karr said well over a hundred years ago – plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose

The tendency for a state to gravitate towards a form of fascism is constant.

And yet ultimately servitude is always voluntary.

Sadly the masses are to always to cowed; too short sighted; too greedy; too indoctrination to withdraw their acquiescence upon which our overloads base their oppression.

Defy or die.

193438 JHuntz, replying to JHuntz, 11, #559 of 1373 🔗

That “lost children of COVID” excerpt in the main news is tragic. The damage we have done to the young in an effort to ‘protect’ the elderly is horrifying.

193444 ▶▶ alittleparty, replying to JHuntz, 11, #560 of 1373 🔗

It’s sick.

And yet the teachers’ unions are clamouring for 2 week school closures.

193446 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to alittleparty, 12, #561 of 1373 🔗

Well they’ve worked for 6 weeks solid – it’s a bit of a shock for them really

193449 ▶▶▶▶ alittleparty, replying to CGL, 7, #562 of 1373 🔗

So true! And only a 3% pay rise for navigating the plague!

My daughter’s school has been giving themselves a half day each week due to the extra Covid stress and stain that the poor teachers and administrators have been under!

193448 ▶▶ IanE, replying to JHuntz, 10, #563 of 1373 🔗

But, it has hardly been to protect the elderly, it HAS been to protect government cock-ups plus the dreadfully enfeebled NHS. This is NOT a war between generations, it IS a war between ‘government’ and us!

193578 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to IanE, 1, #564 of 1373 🔗

The demographic on this site seems to me to skew towards pensionable age

193641 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to JHuntz, 2, #565 of 1373 🔗

Correction: “The damage the government have done to the young in an effort to ‘protect’ the elderly is horrifying.” WE did not do this.

193442 alittleparty, replying to alittleparty, 5, #566 of 1373 🔗

More positively I have been playing early 1990s Levellers loudly for my and my neighbours aural pleasure (well certainly my pleasure – jury out on my neighbours enjoyment).

Rousing stuff. I particularly enjoyed “Sell Out”. Seems particularly apropos.

Lyrics with credit to Levellers:

The year was 1991, it seems that freedom is dead and gone
The power of the rich is held by few
Keep the young paralyzed, educated by your lies
Keep the old ones happy with the news
Tell the singer not to song his song
Tell the poet that she’s wrong
And in the courts you’ll win the case with lies
’cause you sold them down the river-o
Do I belong to some ancient race
I like to walk in ancient places
These are things that I can understand
I don’t believe in your modern way
Don’t care about the things you say
Your policies have failed the test of time
’cause you sold them down the river-o
Now in a land not far away,
there’s men in prison because they say
The colour of your skin is not a question
Did you rally to their side
No, you sat back and let them die
I don’t know how you get to sleep at night
’cause you sold them down the river-o

193479 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to alittleparty, 5, #567 of 1373 🔗

There’s only ONE WAY of life and that’s your own.

193445 IanE, replying to IanE, 8, #568 of 1373 🔗

Truly unbelievable:- Apparently, “University of York in Britain advised students who are self isolating because of Covid-19 to wait in their rooms for a minute if they hear a fire alarm, to minimise the risk of healthy people being infected as they flee the burning building.”

Ye gods, can this really be true???


193452 ▶▶ JudgeMental, replying to IanE, 3, #569 of 1373 🔗

What if their room is on fire. Are they still supposed to wait a minute in case they spread this deadly disease?

193457 ▶▶ John P, replying to IanE, 3, #571 of 1373 🔗

It is true, but I have heard that they have now withdrawn this “advice”.

193498 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to IanE, 4, #572 of 1373 🔗

I truly hope the students take absolutely no notice of this. Aside from the safety aspect and the potential risk of waiting too long and getting caught in a fire, if all the students wait for a minute, doesn’t that mean they all still leave at the same time??
When a fire alarm goes off, they should leave immediately. They should not wait or prefabricated. They don’t know if the danger or real or not, if there’s a fire how far it might have spread, or how much smoke there is.

If the New York Port Authority hadn’t told people that there was no danger and they should continue working in the Twin Towers, more people might have been saved.

193450 Humanity First, 3, #573 of 1373 🔗

Seems like many of Europe’s central banks were very keen to get their gold reserves up by a deadline of 2020…

“As early as 2015, I put forward the idea that the year 2020 looked to be a leading contender for a monetary system Reset.

I reached that conclusion based on a trend I had spotted in the gold repatriation timelines announced by a number of European central banks beginning in 2013.

And who better to know the inside plans for a future and much needed reset of the financial system than the world’s most powerful central banks, the unaccountable and secretive institutions where gold is at the heart of their balance sheets, and would be the natural and reserve asset anchor in any new international monetary system.

Besides, the global financial crisis that began in 2007/2008 never really ended. It was merely patched up, prolonged, and put on life support by central bank interventions in the form of unceasing quantitative easing (QE), asset buying, and artificially low interest rates.”


193451 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 6, #574 of 1373 🔗

Changed his tune a bit:


“It’s not possible to stop everybody getting it and it’s also not desirable because you want some immunity in the population”

Sir Patrick Vallance, the UK’s chief scientific adviser, says main aim is to protect vulnerable and elderly from coronavirus

193456 ▶▶ John P, replying to Sarigan, 1, #575 of 1373 🔗

March 12th.

193458 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to John P, 2, #576 of 1373 🔗

I am aware of the date.

193461 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Sarigan, 2, #577 of 1373 🔗

But not everybody here may be.

I originally thought you were thinking that this was what he was saying now.

193567 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to John P, 2, #578 of 1373 🔗

i think starting the comment with
“Changed his tune a bit ” implies some time gap between when it was said and present day

193764 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ HoMojo, replying to mjr, #579 of 1373 🔗

No that clear. I also thought it implied that he’d changed his to tune TO that not from THAT. I don’t watch the goons on TV so how would I know?

193460 Mabel Cow, 23, #580 of 1373 🔗

Here’s a picture for you to share on social media.

193463 Liam, 7, #581 of 1373 🔗

The Daily Mail (which has been a hysterical disgrace since day one) actually has a sensible editorial comment alongside Lord Sumption’s piece today. I know it’s a dreadful rag but it would be a big deal if they came round.

193464 Dame Lynet, 1, #582 of 1373 🔗

Geoff Norcott absolutely brilliant. I’m just glad he singled out NZ and not the Isle of Man – I hope nobody tells him we’ve been carting people off to jail and landing them with a criminal record for infringing the rulez.

193465 Banjones, replying to Banjones, 20, #583 of 1373 🔗

I find it utterly depressing that so many young people are muzzled-up in the open air.
Don’t they do any research to inform themselves of their ”risk”? Or do they think they’re doing it for the greater good, in case they’re ”spreaders”? Though I doubt that.
Of course, we can’t expect any public information about ”risk” or lack of it – that would mean they wouldn’t be able to control the vast majority as they are doing.

Why on earth don’t people do their own research? The general ignorance is quite breathtaking – with people STILL thinking that if they contract it, it’s a death sentence!

193475 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Banjones, 9, #584 of 1373 🔗

It’ll be peer pressure, ignorance, and non-stop propaganda backed up by force.

193495 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Lms23, 11, #585 of 1373 🔗

The young are so much more used to being brainwashed than the older generations. These days you have to be truly exceptional to be going against the propaganda in the education system – like those younger sceptics who post on here. These are our only hope for the future – not the useless, brainless, unthinking maskoids.

193576 ▶▶▶ Templeton, replying to Lms23, 1, #586 of 1373 🔗

i.e Social media.
The first true generation to grow up with it all in place from the word go.

193573 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Banjones, 1, #587 of 1373 🔗

Where I live it’s more or less 100% people in between shops who muzzle themselves on the street. As soon as you move away from the town centre, virtually no-one is masked. London seems to have more masks on the street, but some of those people may be on their way to/from public transport – round my way most people drive everywhere so that’s not a factor.

193615 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Julian, 4, #588 of 1373 🔗

There are a lot of people muzzled on the street in my part of south east London. Some are on their way to a bus or between shops, some are the terrified elderly, easily the majority are proudly walking down the street signalling their virtue. I like to audibly mutter “idiot” at them every time I walk past one. Achieves nothing, makes me feel better.

194049 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Banjones, 2, #589 of 1373 🔗

My step-daughter is 28 and has asthma, so is exempt. However, she wears a mask, so she doesn’t stand out or get trolled by her so-called ‘friends’ on FB. I find her quite typical of her generation – FB is everything and independent research would be way down her list, as it would interfere with her daily life!

193466 2 pence, replying to 2 pence, 13, #590 of 1373 🔗

New legal challenge to masks and lockdown measures has been commenced in England.

Plaintiffs include Dr Kevin Corbett, Dr Niall McCrae and Stephen Morris



193490 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to 2 pence, 1, #591 of 1373 🔗

Great news!

I wish these fundraising sites accepted PayPal. I don’t like using my credit card online.

193468 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 16, #592 of 1373 🔗

Seen in Kirklees:

comment image :large

193477 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Sarigan, 10, #593 of 1373 🔗

Good grief, is this for real?? They are actually calling people sheep to their faces.

193482 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Mabel Cow, 6, #594 of 1373 🔗

lol yer, everyday, the sheep don’t know it

193603 ▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Mabel Cow, 1, #595 of 1373 🔗

I honestly don’t know if this a genuine council poster or if it is a piss-take – that’s the world we now live in.

193487 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Sarigan, 3, #596 of 1373 🔗

That’s brilliant – maybe they’re pushing the limits to see how much they can get past them before they smell a rat

193510 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Sarigan, 2, #597 of 1373 🔗

How about two thirds of a bullock

193565 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to godowneasy, 1, #598 of 1373 🔗

A donkey?

193710 ▶▶▶▶ godowneasy, replying to ConstantBees, #599 of 1373 🔗

No thank you, I’ve already eaten.

193564 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Sarigan, #600 of 1373 🔗

although Drakeford would view this as a sex education advert ….

193608 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Sarigan, #601 of 1373 🔗

If this is real, please send to Carl Vernon. He’d love it, and probably use it on his show (baaaa).


193657 ▶▶ DomW, replying to Sarigan, 1, #602 of 1373 🔗

It’s for real. The page below has a link to the PDF download under Signs And Stickers For Businesses To Use


193472 Lms23, replying to Lms23, 5, #603 of 1373 🔗

The video of the Romanian police: could just as easily been the UK, considering their behaviour over the last six months, and their treatment of the anti-lockdown/masks protests.

Sadiq Khan owned by David Kurten.

Who gave the orders to treat the various London protests so differently…Sadiq Khan wouldn’t say.

193512 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Lms23, 1, #604 of 1373 🔗

That was a great video. Khan (unsurprisingly) was unprepared and totally out of his depth.

193478 CivilianNotCovidian, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 10, #605 of 1373 🔗

4.5 billion people boarded a flight in 2019. If you could make it LAW in the global airline industry that EVERY passenger had to buy an “easy-to-use-at-home-test” for $250 to prove they were “covid negative” before boarding a flight in 2021, how much money would you stand to make (gross turnover… and you have to assume profit margins are HUGE) in ONE YEAR? Tests! It’s not vaccines, it’s TESTS! They will normalise testing. #followthemoney
Can someone on here please tweet this exact question to Chris Green and Anna Brees as I do not have or want a Twitter account. TIA

193480 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 5, #606 of 1373 🔗

Exactly, it’s a money making exercise, transferring our money into their bank accounts.

193500 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 4, #607 of 1373 🔗

And the best bit is that troublesome individuals (like us) could easily be blacklisted and receive positive tests for the rest of our lives.

Welcome to the Soviet Union. And no, you cannot leave.

193563 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Mabel Cow, 1, #608 of 1373 🔗

Hey, the US has had no fly lists for decades (since 9/11). And you will never be told why you’re on the list or how to get off it.

As Frank Zappa once memorably said “Welcome to the United States.”

194399 ▶▶▶ Pen, replying to Mabel Cow, #609 of 1373 🔗

Good thing we are on an island only a few miles from multiple (hopefully mutually disagreeing) countries, if things get desperate improvising a raft might not be so hard in good weather. Pity the New Zealanders, much further from any countries they might escape to. Australians, incidentally, might escape in to papua new guinea, there are short island-to-island crossings up in the torres straight area which the aussies (at least historically) couldn’t police as thoroughly as elsewhere due to cultural traditions of island-island trade.

193560 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 1, #610 of 1373 🔗

While I agree that $250 per test is quite a money spinner, the impact on demand for flights would be substantial, especially considering that for us here in the UK, lots of flights cost less than £190 (the current cost of that test in GBP). Multiply that times every family member, and many people would make different decisions that don’t involve flights.

193569 ▶▶ Julian, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, #611 of 1373 🔗

Good point – average person would get one jab a year but multiple tests…

193485 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 6, #612 of 1373 🔗

In Liverpool, this is good…

193488 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #613 of 1373 🔗

Is anything on fire yet?

193515 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Nick Rose, #614 of 1373 🔗

Whats happening?

193489 TyLean, replying to TyLean, 13, #615 of 1373 🔗

Psychopaths – which are the people who have the capability of being serial killers (though few are serial killers) – have a prevalence in the population of 1%……

The world population is 7.8 Billion

There are 78 MILLION Psychopaths running amok on this planet right now. Many of these are people you know casually and of whom you probably think very highly.

Psychopaths, by virtue of their ruthless nature and lack of compassion, tend to rise very high in society.

Conspiracy? No, it’s blatantly obvious. These people are legion and need to be stopped.

193492 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to TyLean, 3, #616 of 1373 🔗

When psychopaths run the world, the world goes mad…

193494 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to TyLean, 9, #617 of 1373 🔗

People are being told to be psychopaths for the greater good, they are given easy ways to be a psychopath, they don’t have to think about it, simple things, wear a mask… It’s the cornerstone of the covid death cult. Coercion into this new global community, a transformation of humanity into individual voiceless faceless psychopaths all working to enforce the new communitarian vision of global conformity and compliance and nobody will be left alone behind.

193491 Lms23, replying to Lms23, 12, #618 of 1373 🔗

Sky News Australia: ‘The Great Reset’: World leaders to harness COVID and pursue ‘sinister’ climate agenda

Published on 11 Oct 2020
“Sky News host Rowan Dean says the next World Economic Forum in Davos has morphed from a “jet-setter climate gabfest” into a sinister “anti-democratic enterprise designed to destroy your job, steal your prosperity and rob your kids of a future”.

“It’s a hardcore leftist eco-horror show replete with quasi fascism,” he said.

Mr Dean highlighted what he described as a “disturbing trend among many of the world’s left-wing elites to increasingly conflate COVID-19 with climate change.

“Many are going so far as to suggest that all the measures applied to the coronavirus, the lockdowns, the destruction of businesses, the suppression of dissent, curfews, strong-arm police tactics, should become the ‘new normal’ for dealing with climate change.

Mr Dean said the next World Economic Forum is planning “to convince governments with the help of big businesses and big tech to bring about something deeply sinister called ‘The Great Reset’.”

“It is a program designed to strip us all of our fundamental democratic rights in favour of a new form of society as dictated by the elites”.

Mr Dean said the advertising for ‘The Great Reset’ was “just about as cliched and vomit-inducing as the most inane corporate ad can be. This promo is saying that all the very worst things in the world, from the coronavirus to bushfires to riots to pollution to poverty are somehow linked.

“Then it is claiming they can magically disappear. Literally at the push of a button and just like that, everything in the world is made right and pure again.

“The Great Reset. What could be simpler?

Mr Dean said ultimately “lunatics including Prince Charles and the United Nations and the IMF want to replicate the global response to COVID and repurpose it for climate change, to enforce zero net emissions”.”

Spectator Australia Magazine : Dangerous elites planning ‘the Great Reset’
Davos 2021 will launch its own Green New Deal. Be afraid.
“The response to Covid follows closely the approach taken by global warming activists. But as Prince Charles puts it, ‘The threat of climate-change has been more gradual (than the pandemic) — but its devastating reality for many people and their livelihoods around the world, and its ever greater potential to disrupt, surpasses even that of Covid-19’. He argues we have ‘a golden opportunity to seize something good from the crisis’.

The World Economic Forum, a Geneva-based non-profit foundation whose ranks include Prince Charles and other climate change crusaders like Al Gore and Greta Thunberg, together with the secretary general of the United Nations, the president of the European Central Bank, the secretary-general of the OECD, the managing director of the IMF, George Soros, world trade union leaders, chief executives of Big Tech and representatives of NGOs like Greenpeace and WWF, believes climate action must be top of the global agenda as we emerge from Covid-19.”

This isn’t a “conspiracy theory.” It’s hardly even a conspiracy when the participle are on camera and on record telling us what they’re doing.
Governments everywhere are following a pre-planned script. The constant lockdowns are designed to demoralize, giving people false hope before locking them up again, like marching someone on death row to the electric chair every day before taking them back to their cell again.

“Much of the WEF’s agenda can be found in America’s radical Left’s Green New Deal, which addresses climate change and economic inequality. It embraces the spirit of Franklin D. Roosevelt’s New Deal and the social and economic reforms which he introduced to lift the US out of the Great Depression. However, unlike the New Deal, the Great Reset and the Green New Deal share a belief that the world is being governed by fundamentally wrong assumptions and that ‘dramatic transformation is possible with a change of mindset’.”

193507 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Lms23, -3, #619 of 1373 🔗

Fell about laughing at the description of Davos as ‘leftist’.

193555 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to RickH, 3, #620 of 1373 🔗

Thanks for that, Rick. I did a TLDR and then went back and looked at the Davos “leftist” bit. I did need a laugh. It’s like people who say this is all part of a “green agenda”. Yeah, like all the people who are abandoning public transport for private cars make for a green agenda. The traffic where I live is even worse than ever.

193713 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to RickH, 1, #621 of 1373 🔗

Technocratic, Elitist, Globalist and Totalitarian are better descriptions. Anyone truly left wing should be equally concerned about the WEF plans – they are all about strengthening the power of elite multinational companies and billionaires.

193503 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 3, #622 of 1373 🔗

Who writes this shit?

The last person I know who offered cake ended up having her fucking head cut off


193516 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Cecil B, 4, #623 of 1373 🔗

The BBC is now indistinguishable from the news reels in Starship Troopers.

193537 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Mabel Cow, 1, #624 of 1373 🔗

i did like the bit with the children stamping on the SAGE members and the government

193598 ▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Mabel Cow, #625 of 1373 🔗

Bang on. Jesus there is a whole series of them – “Should I get the flu Jab”, “How to wear your muzzle”, “How to migrate from the potty to the big boys toilet” (maybe I made one of those up).

193531 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Adam, #627 of 1373 🔗

Jesus Christ, my eyeballs. It’s like Geocities all over again. All that’s missing is the <blink> tag.

193554 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Mabel Cow, 1, #628 of 1373 🔗

It does feel a bit 1995, doesn’t it?

193592 ▶▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to ConstantBees, #629 of 1373 🔗

I wonder if Netscape Navigator runs on Windows 10 and if the site looks in better rendered in that?

193509 Silke David, 7, #630 of 1373 🔗

Just met a friend in a coffeeshop, as no-one at the door, just walked in. no T&T, sanitising, face covering. All other customers masked, sanitising, politely waiting to be seated, some entertainment provided by people trying to open and close the door without touching the handle.
Some forgot to put their face covering after toilet visit or leaving, halfway way walking realised…stopped….oh, well, might as well continue walking now.

Overheard staff saying to our 3rd party who arrived much later no need to do T&T as first person gave her details. Pluspoint for them they knew that!

193517 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 12, #631 of 1373 🔗

I hope the attached image is readable? the words seem chillingly apposite for our times, also I find that Hermann Goring reminds me of a current politician, does anyone else see a likeness?

193622 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #632 of 1373 🔗

Goose bumps ….

193709 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #633 of 1373 🔗

I suspect every so called ‘enemy the state’ the UK has faced in my lifetime was greatly exaggerated to remove freedoms and liberties of individuals and increase state power especially the post 2000 ‘war on terror’.

Every police officer even in rural areas will use the ‘you could be a terrorist’ excuse to hassle you if given half the chance.

193519 peyrole, replying to peyrole, 37, #634 of 1373 🔗

I have read this site for some time with great interest. Since being in Thailand mid-Jan and mixing with Chinese many from Wuhan i have been very sceptical about all the coronavirus/covid-19 hype. I am currently in France where I usually live for most of the year.
I have only just ‘signed on’ as a user because I preferred to slug it out on MSM sites with the indoctrinated, rather than converse on an ‘echo chamber’ ,but recently its become dangerous. I am sure that my computer and modem have been deliberately targeted on two seperate occasions, after posting on ToL website.
Today I have commented on their lead story about vaccinates by Christmas etc. Quoting the Forbes article by Prof Haseltine of Harvard describing the ridiculously low threshold and small tested populations used by the pharmas to get emergency approvals. I also referred to the vaccine being akin to taking paracetomal and cough medicine, as it does nothing to address infections or deaths.
The volume of personal abuse received is alarming. There is no attempt to read the source document, no attempt to widen knowledge, its an attack by religious zealots.
I fear that western societies relatively small time of using logic and the real scientific method is over. We are in a new age of dogma.

193553 ▶▶ CGL, replying to peyrole, 22, #635 of 1373 🔗

Welcome. I get your echo chamber thoughts but I think a large proportion of us on here – myself included – are really grateful for the moral support we need sometimes when we are struggling with a bad day. The links, data, arguments are good too, but the sanctuary of this community is invaluable in our dark moments.

193582 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to peyrole, 15, #636 of 1373 🔗

‘We are in a new age of dogma.’ Certainly are or perhaps back to an old age of superstition and witch hunts. Woe betide anyone who challenges the cult of Covidology, all must believe and wear the sacred symbol of a bit of snotty old rag tied across your lower face. All must tremble before the ridiculous scare stories but out by the Prophet Hancock and all must believe in his magic vaccine whereby he will save us all.

193620 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to peyrole, 5, #637 of 1373 🔗

We saw that really with the eruption of PC culture about 20 years ago. In many ways Covid hysteria is an effusion of that culture, where feelings and wishes trump facts and pragmatic choice,

193743 ▶▶ helen, replying to peyrole, 1, #638 of 1373 🔗

PARADOGMA. DocU By Marijn Poels English subtitles


194249 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to peyrole, 1, #639 of 1373 🔗


193521 helen, 3, #640 of 1373 🔗

Drosten goes on the defensive (on twitter) in response to article in Multipolar

“Nobody chose this pandemic. We’re all in the same boat” he whines


The mask requirement: containment of epidemics or bodily harm in office?

The Robert Koch Institute, which is subordinate to the federal government, recommends a situational mask requirement for the general public in public spaces. According to its own admission, the authority relies on scientific studies and institutions such as the World Health Organization. But does the RKI correctly reflect the current research situation? A critical consideration. Paul Scheyer.

OliverMarten 18/10/20 MULTIPOLARhttps://multipolar-magazin.de/artikel/die-maskenpflicht

193522 Catherine Kenny, replying to Catherine Kenny, 6, #641 of 1373 🔗

Just wanted to point out that not all children who are newly home educated are a lost cause, and the motivation for embarking on this educational option is not always ‘the virus’. In many case it’s the ludicrous Covid secure measures put in place at the expense of children’s mental wellbeing, the many non-Covid related issues present in the school system, and the attraction of home educating as an alternative. Home educating can be a wonderful alternative to school if done well, regardless of the motivation. Trust me. I’m a home educator!

193610 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to Catherine Kenny, 2, #642 of 1373 🔗

My friend’s 14 year old son realized during lockdown how much time he wasted at school and asked to be home educated. She didn’t like it at first and persuaded him to return in September. But then she also realized that he would do better at home and now he is not going back after half term.

193626 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Catherine Kenny, 1, #643 of 1373 🔗

I understand this and it will work for some. I can’t do it.

193681 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Catherine Kenny, 1, #644 of 1373 🔗

I’m a home educator too, was before this, definitely would be now if I hadn’t been! Have met lots recently who have started home educating since lockdown, mostly because they’ve realised that the world doesn’t end without school and their children are much happier at home. Some because they don’t like the covid madness in schools. Hardly any because they’re actually scared of covid.

193525 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 39, #645 of 1373 🔗

Just seen an advert saying early diagnosis of cancer saves lives and the NHS is open. You’re 9 months too late you fuckers.

193533 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Achilles, 9, #646 of 1373 🔗

ah yes … the “Just” advert .. been going over a week now .
clearly they had an idea that the media were about to pick up on cancer timebomb as evidenced in this weekends papers so thought they had better do something .

193549 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Achilles, 4, #647 of 1373 🔗

I wouldn’t set foot in an NHS facility if you paid me. My dentist wants to refer me for a check for the lichen planus I’ve had for over 15 years, but there is no way I’ll go. What’s the point of getting in a 100 mile long queue for non-existent treatment. I just want the government to leave me alone.

193630 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to ConstantBees, 1, #648 of 1373 🔗

Lichen plants is an autoimmune condition. The following article has a section on how to implement an autoimmune elimination diet https://drjockers.com/sjogrens-syndrome/

193604 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Achilles, 16, #649 of 1373 🔗

Yep…those ads are annoying. Almost as annoying as those Tik Tok dance routines involving NHS staff. Another annoying thing is how many staff employed by the preachy NHS are incredibly overweight themselves.

193682 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Achilles, 2, #650 of 1373 🔗

Wonder how all those countries without an NHS managed.

193526 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 30, #651 of 1373 🔗

I’ve not put much up on here recently. Shut up at the back!

I think I’ve reached the stage where I can’t be bothered. I live on my own in a flat, and there is a routine. Shit gets cleaned, towels get washed, and windows polished. Proper meals get cooked, and I manage to entertain myself of an evening without subjecting myself to the BBC. Or Sky News. Nothing ACTUALLY is dirty, or ironing isn’t piling up but there is no enthusiasm for anything.

I’ve sat in on CBT courses in the past, and I believe I’ve got to watch myself. I’m becoming ‘conditioned’ to the today. There is no visible ‘tomorrow’ and ‘yesterday’ was just as unremarkable. ‘The HELL of the eternal now’ is what the Ministry of Truth was dedicated to, lest mistakes of the past, or future change challenges ‘The Party Line’.

They’re half way there. This state does also mean that my life has less value to me, and if it needs to put in danger’s way to stop whatever this is, then that in itself constitutes hope.

Bring it on.

193538 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to James Leary #KBF, 14, #652 of 1373 🔗

I hear you James. I’m mulling whether to go out and paint the wall. It needs another coat but there’s always tomorrow. Sigh.
The ennui of nothingness combined with the rising then dashed hopes of yo-yo lockdowns, it’s very dispiriting.
But chin up, we are with you.

193561 ▶▶ John P, replying to James Leary #KBF, 9, #653 of 1373 🔗

I used to feel like that before this shitshow started. Working from home for years and living on my own.

I would see my parents and my sisters but apart from twice yearly houseparties at my sisters house that is more or less all.

My dream of having a wife (I’m a traditionalist) and family of my own seems unlikely to become a reality at my age. But it was unlikely before all of this started.

I sympathise with what you say and often feel the same, but it is in part down to our own attitudes. Life is still what you make it to a large extent.

I often listen to youtube videos by a well known guru. I sometimes think of posting links here to his stuff in the hope that it may help others. But at the same time, I wonder if many here would “get” what he is saying.

And as I am so often “triggered” here myself and seem to get into so many arguments with fellow sceptics that I wonder if I am really in any position to be in any sense of the word “preaching”.

193597 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to John P, -1, #654 of 1373 🔗

A well known Guru? If it’s Piers Morgan, I think not.

193614 ▶▶▶ Jo, replying to John P, 6, #655 of 1373 🔗

I feel terrible a lot of the time. I don’t have much family and my friends are busy working (unlike me, my business is seasonal so a winter ahead of doing nothing). The only hope I can see is the backlash from the scientific community, which is definitely there, even if they are fought back against. There might just be a tipping point when enough people + scientists + a few politicians turn the tide. For those who read about the failed WHO attempt with swine flu in 2009, it might be possible to see this as an experiment and though it looks as if it has succeeded, we are not there yet. Not quite. We might be able to show that we cannot be completed cowed.

193640 ▶▶▶ John Galt, replying to John P, 3, #656 of 1373 🔗

Hope all is well, John.

193562 ▶▶ Lili, replying to James Leary #KBF, 1, #657 of 1373 🔗

I’m right there when you talk about getting in the way of danger. I feel the same.

193566 ▶▶ Julian, replying to James Leary #KBF, 3, #658 of 1373 🔗

Sounds like you’re on top of the basics, looking after yourself.

Exercise and fresh air are good.

Me and the Mrs will not accept that this is normal but equally we make sure we do activities we enjoy – the ones that are still open/not ruined – and spend time with people who think like us and are good for our mental health.

193593 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to James Leary #KBF, #659 of 1373 🔗

Humans are a truth-adapted species. We are highly evolved to being able to identify the truth. Our lives depend on us being able to identify the real state of play. At the same time we are highly social animals and so know to be careful not always to tell the truth.

All this makes me a little optimistic.

193860 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to James Leary #KBF, 3, #660 of 1373 🔗

Forgive me if this is not helpful – but obviously, I mention it in case it could be. I have been terribly isolated since this madness began because I don’t know anyone in person who shares my perspective even slightly. But recently I have discovered that a Tuina centre near me includes at least two practitioners who totally reject the official narrative on all this nonsense. Tuina is a traditional Chinese medical massage – great for bad backs and frozen necks, RSI and general aches and pains.
Perhaps Tuina would not be your thing at all. But it makes me wonder if other such therapeutic practices might not be hotbeds of conceptual resistance. The Tuina practitioners have absolutely refused to drink the Koolaid, perhaps in part because they are already equipped with a complex theory of wellbeing and therapeutics.
I hear your depression. Maybe give Tuina a go? Most of the practitioners are men; you’re treated fully clothed; there are no candles or whale music; it’s very down-to-earth, calm and purposeful.

193529 l835, replying to l835, 8, #661 of 1373 🔗

Just seen the leaked details of the Wakes “fire break” exactly the same as the March situation. It’s a full lockdown, whatever the spin doctors call it.

Just going outside to scream. God help them if I see one of those outdoor mask wearing clowns.

193809 ▶▶ annie, replying to l835, 2, #662 of 1373 🔗

Fuck them.

193534 HoMojo, 37, #663 of 1373 🔗

Booked a cab last night and when it turned up it had ‘no mask, no ride’ in the window, which was ironic since the driver was wearing his under his nose. I got in it anyway and he insisted I wear a mask. The thing is I know this bloke and he’s picked me up many times. A nice guy, from Argentina if I recall. Anyway, we argued and eventually I said I’m exempt because I couldn’t be arsed to order another one and he took me. During the ride I said that they don’t work anyway and he’s wearing his incorrectly and all the other anti-mask stuff I know off by heart. And he agreed with every word I said. By the time we got to my destination I’d got quite heated and said in that case why, if you agree with me, have a sign in the window saying to wear a mask or eff off, it’s offensive to people like me. His answer? ‘It’s not for you, it’s for normal people.’ Boy, did he get it from both barrels about discrimination. Felt guilty by the time I got out, but then again I can’t be the only one who’s getting edgy about this bulshit.

193546 ConstantBees, replying to ConstantBees, 7, #664 of 1373 🔗

Nice to see that the Save Liverpool Gyms crowdfunding is nearing £50,000 (on their £10,000 goal!) If you haven’t donated yet, you might want to chip in a fiver to get them over the line. https://www.gofundme.com/f/save-liverpool-gyms/

193808 ▶▶ annie, replying to ConstantBees, 1, #665 of 1373 🔗

Over the mark now. But keep on donating.
Empowerment. Just what we need.

193550 FrankiiB, 3, #666 of 1373 🔗

Dr. Reiner Fuellmich lawsuit against the PCR tests and all lockdown decisions based on them – previously shared here I think


Are there any UK lawyers starting up cases in UK about this?
Is it possible?

Expert legal knowledge needed, but maybe this is now one of the most effective routes to go down.

193557 RickH, replying to RickH, 25, #667 of 1373 🔗

Sitting in a hospital at the moment – a not unusual situation.

Evidently things here go into full panic lockdown mode at midnight.

The NHS is completely enveloped in Covid mythology – a narrative that bears no relationship to anything in terms of data that I can see.

I feel for the staff, who have been sold a particular narrative about rising ‘cases’. They are not to be blamed – the fictions are all around. I’ve gently tried to probe as to the number of actual infections – illnesses – that are around ( as opposed to PCR+ ‘cases’ – and it’s clear that such a vital distinction is not understood.

So – useless masks are the norm; useless PCR testing the same. An all-embracing fantasy of propaganda.

I’ve just refused a PCR test. Poor nurse has been told what to do and why – all pure fantasy. A breach of medical ethics – an invasive procedure that is as useful as an udder on a bull, and used as part of the myth- making.

The management tiers of the NHS needs a clear-out – whether what is imposed is through blind ignorance or wilful manipulation.

But who is going to do it in this totalitarian climate?

193580 ▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 8, #668 of 1373 🔗

The management tiers of the NHS needs a clear-out – whether what is imposed is through blind ignorance or wilful manipulation .”

Or we could do away with the NHS, since most other countries seem to provide perfectly adequate healthcare without an engorged national bureaucracy which – shock and horror – becomes captured by bureaucrats and empire builders, and manipulated by said empire builders and politicians to suit their own agendas and interests.

Whoulda thought that could happen, eh?

193605 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Mark, 7, #669 of 1373 🔗

Maybe we can split the country into two: (a) those who want the government to hold their hand, and (b) those who don’t.

The (a) group will have access to NHS care, but will be locked down in perpetuity to protect the NHS.

The (b) group will not have their freedoms curtailed, but agree not to use the NHS if they get sick.

Please put me down for the (b) group. I already have a card .

193618 ▶▶▶▶ Jo, replying to Mabel Cow, #670 of 1373 🔗

is that your website?

193619 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Jo, 1, #671 of 1373 🔗

Aye. Sorry about the web design. Bit of a shocker. I can’t be bothered fiddling with style sheets right now. 🙂

194397 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Pen, replying to Mabel Cow, #672 of 1373 🔗

No need, simple formatting that doesn’t hog my slow old processor is very welcome. Really appreciate a site which just has the content and no fancy junk to swallow the content up in.

193639 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mabel Cow, #673 of 1373 🔗

I suggested this on Twitter a few days ago. When I get home will dig it out for you

193651 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Mabel Cow, 4, #674 of 1373 🔗

I’d be in (b) as well, though it would be nice for most if they could have their contributions to the costs of running the NHS bureaucracy refunded so they can use it to pay for their own healthcare.

193825 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Mark, 1, #675 of 1373 🔗

If my National Insurance contributions are the price of my freedom, I’ll gladly pay up! 🙂

193621 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, -4, #676 of 1373 🔗

That’s just hobby-horse riding. I’ve pretty wide experience of the NHS, and these problems are nothing to do with its essential nature.

… And such hobby-horses are – as usual – an irrelevant distraction from the current issues that are the serious focus here, even if they are personal obsessions.

193652 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 6, #677 of 1373 🔗

Not an “irrelevant distraction” or a “hobby horse”, since the failure of the NHS and its use as a core justification for lockdown are at the heart of the UK experience of this coronapanic.

193642 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mark, 2, #678 of 1373 🔗

Be careful. Nobody has ever dismantled something like the NHS before. I agree that management need a good sort out, and that political meddling does no favours, but we must proceed with caution. Not all prior privatisations went well, whatever your view on those might be!

For the record, I’m not generally a fan of nationalisation.

193665 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #679 of 1373 🔗

Care is obviously required in any such huge undertaking, but unless you are accepting the fait accompli that we are stuck with the NHS forever because of its sheer size, I don’t see why it should not be agreed that something must change. That done, we can start to discuss what should replace it.

I agree that management need a good sort out, and that political meddling does no favours, but we must proceed with caution .

Expecting politicians to refrain from “political meddling” in a honeypot of money and power the size of the NHS is rather naive, I think, as is thinking that somehow a bureaucracy the size of the NHS will not inevitably become the servant of its own management and their personal and collective interests.

193674 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mark, #680 of 1373 🔗

Putting the NHS into trust (not into Trusts) may be a way forward. What I fear is not so much private enterprise, but the kind of dog’s dinner the Rail privatisation became. Seeing how government conducts its affairs ever since is the main reason I urge caution.

193684 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, #681 of 1373 🔗

Don’t get me wrong, if it was 1948 and I was in charge of it AND I knew what we know now, what we actually have is not how I would have done it. But I do admit that I’m talking with the benefit of hindsight

193673 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #682 of 1373 🔗

Nobody else has set up an NHS either, which is a bit of a giveaway.
( Although Singapore did set one up for a wee while, had another look at it and decided it would never work and that they wanted a 1st world system)

193676 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nessimmersion, 1, #683 of 1373 🔗

One other country, though it is something that backs your argument: the USSR

193712 ▶▶ Pancho the Grey, replying to RickH, #684 of 1373 🔗

Did you ask how the outcome of the test (in the absence of any symptoms) would affect your treatment.

193558 Steven Robinson, replying to Steven Robinson, 1, #685 of 1373 🔗

Surprised to see you criticising Tony Blair for breaking the quarantine rules, Toby. So you approve of the rules, and disapprove of anyone breaking any of the other covid rules imposed on the country, or parts of it, by diktat? You don’t think this is rather inconsistent, and a case of ‘mixed messaging’?

193627 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Steven Robinson, 12, #686 of 1373 🔗

Surely he is just pointing out the continual ‘do as I say not as I do’ rules for us but not for them. Joe public would get a potential £10k fine for that breach.

193687 ▶▶ HoMojo, replying to Steven Robinson, 4, #687 of 1373 🔗

Disapproving of a ‘privileged’ someone breaking the rules and getting away with it doesn’t mean you approve of the rules.

193692 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Steven Robinson, 6, #688 of 1373 🔗

Strange that you read it like that.

All Toby said that that we all should be treated the same and that Blair should not get special dispensation. Blair said he already had Covid and as such should not have to quarantine, Toby and others also had Covid but still need to quarantine despite that.

193737 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Steven Robinson, 4, #689 of 1373 🔗

I think he’s highlighting it because as with Cummings and Ferguson it shows they don’t take the rubbish they are spouting that seriously

193559 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 9, #690 of 1373 🔗

When I posted yesterday about our visit to the hairdresser, I mentioned that there was a very sceptical teacher in there. I forgot the best bit re: her colleague who has tested ‘positive’:

We said, where’ve you got that from then, is it from the pub where you go every night?

She said, no I got it from here (the school).

We said, well that’s bloody funny, nobody else has got it!

Meanwhile, I have just had a conversation with another of my old college mates. She is a long way from sceptical, despite pretending to be up with it all the issues. She listens to the BBC all the time, reads the Graun, wears a mask but won’t read figures because it’s ‘all crap’. I pointed out to her that we’re far from experts but we’re very keen to keep well-informed and stay away from state propaganda.

She then started trimming like mad and pretending that she doesn’t believe in the fear-porn. But she then told me that ‘numbers’ are going up in Scandinavia. I gave my standard response which is that it’s late October in northern Europe – of course they are! Also that the stupid buggers are testing like mad just like everyone else. She affected not to know about the false-positive rate of the PCR test.

(BTW, I hope the fear porn about threatened lockdowns in Sweden is just that and not fact. They must be under such pressure!)

Anyway, she was shocked when I said we had never worn a mask and would have to be forcibly made to like in Melbourne before we’d risk our health by wearing one.

This is a woman with a PhD, an Msc in maths and various other degrees. At least she doesn’t fancy the app but told me 2 other friends of ours were trying to persuade her to get it. I told her the latest news about police enforcement, data mining etc. Apparently, her equally well-qualified sister has got it and has just had a ‘lovely’ holiday in Puglia where mask-wearing is mandated absolutely everywhere. I said it sounded like shite and she hesitated and then agreed! I think I got a few points over to her but I’m not holding my breath! MW

193704 ▶▶ Pancho the Grey, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #691 of 1373 🔗

Re the lockdowns in Sweden, my understanding is that at the moment they are considering it for Uppsala because of a spike in infections. You may not know that Uppsala is a comparatively small town with a major university. Interesting that Lancaster, Keele, Loughborough and York are in a similar position with both a university and an infection spike.

193805 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Pancho the Grey, 1, #692 of 1373 🔗

Uppsala is a charming town whose university is world-renowned. It was Linnaeus’ university.
Surely there are a few intelligent people there??

193878 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to annie, 2, #693 of 1373 🔗

Does that ‘spike in infections’ mean an increase in people seriously ill in hospital or dying? It certainly doesn’t in the UK towns you mention. If it’s a university town, it suggests to me an increase in PCR-test-generated false positives . If Sweden is creating its own Test-demic, it might be as a result of pressure coming from a higher level, oh sorry, incompetence.

As we know, Ann/Annie, the highly-educated seem to be the most easy to brainwash. I think it’s a tragedy if Sweden goes down this route at this stage but I’m not altogether surprised. MW

193571 Hester, replying to Hester, 2, #694 of 1373 🔗

Does anyone know how to send detail to Toby? I have just had an interesting on line chat with Amazon where the help assistant admitted books are read for suitability hence the pulling of the Covid 19 book as mentioned in todays news items. I have the chat in my email if Toby is interested, It is very clear that Amazon are indeed censoring what can and cannot be read

193601 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Hester, #695 of 1373 🔗


But I suspect he gets a lot of emails at this address and elsewhere….

193631 ▶▶▶ Hester, replying to Mark, 1, #696 of 1373 🔗

thank you will give it a go

193575 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 6, #697 of 1373 🔗

In Toby’s update about the John Snow memorandum he uses the word Establishment toadies. I think that might apply to many of the UK signatories (with the exception of Karl Friston) but there are some from the US with more serious views that you should not just dismiss offhand. Always better to attack the manifest than the signatories. Michael Mina has signed it. He has said many sensible things about the unreliable mass testing with PCR with almost 90 % not infectious and the total waste of time in contact tracing those (70000 University students C-19 pos with 3 hospitalizations just confirm the nonsense with mass testing).Mina’s argument is to have better, more reliable test rapidly as the only way for track and trace in his opinion. Florian Krammer, another signatory, is a well-known virologist, which has published on his twitter site very sensible discussion about vaccine candidates and not over-enthusiastic. Marc Lipsitch, another signatory, has even published 2009 an article


which warns of the paradox that general disease limitation might increase the death rate in elderly, if the pathogen is more lethal to the elderly population. Another signatory is Walter Ricciardi, who early on warned that only 13 % of the elderly dying from C-19 in Italy died from the disease, the other 87% with C-19 and co-morbidities.

 The main thing in the manifest (we disregard their obvious obfuscation that it is a lethal infection ,not for the <70 and the mantra about long covid ) is that the transmission must be suppressed. They admit that lockdown is too blunt instrument but other measures. These measures seem to be used all over in Europe now with a puritanical closure of bars, curfews etc in the hope of just destroying the hospitality sector and halting spread. Finally, the phantastic track and trace system should come into place. Ironically, coming from liberal open borders PC lot, this must be coupled with quarantine and border closures like in NZ. Difficult how this would work in the UK with several million Asians many travelling to their home countries. Two weeks isolation in camps for multigenerational Bangladeshi household coming home seems difficult to implement. The Jon Snow manifest highlights that many elderlies will die in GBD scheme, as it is impossible to isolate the elderly as not all are living in care homes. Already early on in the pandemic, protection of care homes and elderly was not successful. That is a valid argument.
But the Jon Snow manifest is totally utopian and can never work. Test and trace is too late. Might have worked first week in February but zero chance of success now. CDC said that any contact tracing etc is useless when more than 1 % of the population infected in the flu pandemic scenario. The spread of the C-19 virus with hundreds of million infected makes it impossible to halt with any restrictions. Paradoxically, stopping the transmission in the whole population might even give a higher death rate in the elderly.
Using Taiwan, SK and Japan as example of testing regimes is not that relevant considering that these countries have done much less testing than many others. NZ as an example of successful stop of transmission can not be reproduced in other continents which cannot afford yearlong border closures etc.
There is no choice between these two models. Jon Snow’s is utopian and not possible to implement and would end up in in the GBD scenario, whether they like it or not.

193599 ▶▶ Mark, replying to swedenborg, 1, #698 of 1373 🔗

but there are some from the US with more serious views that you should not just dismiss offhand

The question is, why have such people signed up to what is, as you rightly say, a completely unfeasible proposal?

It’s hardly as though any suppression strategy can be claimed not to cause death and suffering on a massive scale. Is it really that these people think those deaths and suffering are “a price worth paying” because the alternative will be worse?

193637 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mark, #699 of 1373 🔗

Basically, attack the argument, not the man.

193646 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Nick Rose, #700 of 1373 🔗

Indeed, but part of trying to understand what is going on is working out why intelligent and informed people adopt obviously (to us) illogical and counterproductive stances.

The people Swedenborg refers to have not just chose to disagree with the GBD, they have made an explicit and public decision to back an alternative proposal.

193669 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mark, 1, #701 of 1373 🔗

May be no more than good old fashioned academic squabbles over pet theories. Destroy those and you’re onto a winner, lol

193840 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to swedenborg, 3, #702 of 1373 🔗

I am very appreciative of your contributions to this site, Swedenborg. Thank you.

194087 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to swedenborg, #703 of 1373 🔗

Someone who is saying PCR is not fit for purpose with 90% of people NOT infectious should be siding with Mike Yeardon in the belief that there is criminality at play.

Many schools have been completely closed due to Positive cases. Hospitals right now are saying they are under pressure, my local certainly is, but because of staff shortages from people isolating. That is leading to deaths.

To lock anyone down with such numbers is criminal. Human rights abuse at its core.

193581 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 44, #704 of 1373 🔗

Can you remember seven months ago? Can you remember that in the weeks before the March 16th announcement by Bozo that we were going to be locking down from the 23rd, life was normal? People were going to work, children were at school, the trains and tubes were full and no one was wearing a mask.

Were you hiding behind your sofa then or were you living a life that was..er…normal?

If we carried on living that normal life during the time when, according to the data, the virus was at its most infectious, when we didn’t know how best to treat it and mistakenly used ventilators, when we hadn’t even built up the extra capacity in the NHS and when masks and social distancing were somewhere in the future, why can’t we live that normal life again now?

193589 ▶▶ Alan P, replying to Margaret, 12, #705 of 1373 🔗

Because we’re all going to die from the virus unless we adopt all the crazy things we’re doing now! Please follow the science……

193594 ▶▶▶ PatrickF, replying to Alan P, 16, #706 of 1373 🔗

I was in my local park today. Man, two benches down from me in a mask. He must have thought the park was indoors.

193750 ▶▶ davews, replying to Margaret, 7, #707 of 1373 🔗

Yes, early March I had several trips up to London, documented on my personal website.
March 2nd, walk around Camden area of London, past Euston and Kings Cross, all pretty busy according to my photos. Lunch in the cafe at the British Museum, also pretty busy, then on to Methodist Central Hall for the annual Daffodil Day. Attendance somewhat down on usual but still plenty there. Meal at Carluccio’s in Waterloo, busy as usual.
March 13th, first leg of the Lea Valley walk, a bit quiet but lunch at the Ferry Boat Inn at Tottenham Hale, all perfectly normal. A few timid people with masks on on the tube but otherwise very normal and busy. Planned to do the next leg a couple of weeks later.
March 22nd, after Boris’s Friday announcements, last service at our church, a prayer meeting only due to the regs. Afterwards nice walk with my friend and his wife and promise to do the same later in the week. Then March 23rd came and we know the rest.

Westminster Central Hall is still firmly locked up, Carluccios at Waterloo still closed, British Museum you can no longer just walk through while doing the walk.

Yes, I remember vividly how we used to live…

193587 matt, replying to matt, 20, #708 of 1373 🔗

In the corner shop this morning, I overheard a snippet of some SAGE fool (didn’t catch which; don’t much care) saying that he disagrees with Gove and that a “circuit breaker” probably should happen. Just kicking things round in my head, it occurred to me that of course he does, because the only restrictions that have even internal logic are either ‘total’ or ‘none at all’. “Total” is the logical conclusion once you decide that the government should intervene and “none at all” is the traditional approach.
Bear with me.
In theory, if you didn’t allow anyone to leave their own primary dwelling at all, under any circumstance, the virus would die out within around 3 weeks, because it wouldn’t have anyone to infect and would have run its course in everyone who had been infected before you locked the doors and anyone in their own houses they had subsequently infected by the time you let them out again. In order for a lockdown to “work” it only makes sense to completely stop absolutely everybody from having any contact whatsoever with absolutely anybody not in their own household. This on the premise that we don’t know who has it and we don’t know how or how easily it’s transmitted, except that we know it must happen through person-to-person contact.
Putting aside the economic impact for a minute (and you could argue that a 3 week total stop would have been less economically damaging than the excruciating situation we’ve had all year), obviously this is hopelessly impractical. You need to make exceptions for healthcare professionals, for supply chain workers, for people who make and package the stuff that we need to have while we’re imprisoned in our homes, for public transport workers, who need to get the others from where they start from to where they need to get to – and the list goes on. Also, it became very obvious very quickly that we simply don’t have the logistical resilience for it to be possible for everyone to get all of their supplies by delivery. However, if you make any concessions to that at all, you’ve broken the effectiveness of the measures, because people are still coming into contact with one another, whether it’s in a workplace or in a supermarket, or wherever it is, therefore transmission will occur.
What’s more, any exceptions at all immediately make people question the logic. Why is it ok for me to get on a bus with strangers to go to a warehouse to work with Jim and Mike all day, but it’s not OK for me to see my grandchildren? Why is it ok for me to go to the supermarket with dozens of other people, but it’s not OK to take the kids to the play park?
As you try to “relax” things, the logic breaks down even further to the point where even a few seconds’ thought would have anyone with any intelligence above the level of a mollusc to see straight through it. Why is it ok for me to go to the pub with my wife and kids, but not to meet a friend, even though I’m sharing a room with dozens of people I don’t know? Why is that ok at 9:30pm, but not at 10:01? Why is it OK for me not to wear a mask in an office full of people, but I have to wear one in Sainsbury’s? What you’re trying to do is not, in fact, to mitigate and stop the spread of a virus, what you’re trying to do is to keep everyone believing that this is what you’re trying to do, while trying to restart as much economic activity as you can, while half of the people bleat at you that you’re not doing enough and the other half are complaining that you’re doing too much. Hopeless.
This continues – in my opinion – to be the problem the government has in trying to navigate their way out of this mess. The virus is going to do what the virus does and one of the things an endemic respiratory virus does is increase in autumn. But having made the statement that the virus can be controlled by government intervention, they’ve accepted the responsibility for intervening, so it’s nearly impossible to stop, short of admitting you were wrong in the first place. I half wonder whether the massive complexity and grim unpleasantness of the rules now are specifically intended to erode compliance. This could either be to have an excuse for the possible failure of the measures to achieve anything (it was your fault, you didn’t do as you were told), or to shift public opinion to the point where the government can abandon the interventions because no one agrees with them anymore anyway. Or both.

193596 ▶▶ Alan P, replying to matt, 13, #709 of 1373 🔗

The intelligence level of a mollusc is rather higher than the average level amongst the general population being displayed currently. And I include members of Parliament, SAGE membership and most of the masked zombies I see on a daily basis.

193623 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Alan P, 3, #710 of 1373 🔗

That’s an insult to a mollusc.

193611 ▶▶ FenTyger, replying to matt, 1, #711 of 1373 🔗

I think you have it about right. The amount of people who will succumb to it is roughly the same whatever is done. If you plot the curves over a year or two years the areas under the curve will be about the same.

193656 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to matt, 6, #712 of 1373 🔗

You’re basically re-telling the plot of the South Park episode where Cartman gets an amusement park and then realises that he can’t have it all to himself because it needs maintenance. In the end the park runs normally.

Even if everyone is isolated they will still get sick as you can give yourself flu-like symptoms from dormant viruses in your body if you get stressed by temperature changes or physical stress. There’s a whole body of study on whether we catch ailments from external viruses or we spend most of the time dealing with dormant ones we have accummulated.

Studies of astronauts show this. You can get a cold and flu in space and that’s in a very isolated environment. Same thing happens on submarines.

193668 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to matt, 4, #713 of 1373 🔗

Yes, the main problem with all of this is that the government believe that they can control a virus and have assured the petrified sheep that they can. Therefore they have to keep up the illusion no matter what rather than admit that, in fact, a handful of buffoons in Whitehall cannot control the transmission of a microscopic viral particle amongst a country of 67 million people.

The other problem of course, is that the petrified sheep believe and expect that the government can control the transmission of a microscopic viral particle amongst a country of 67 million people, so are demanding and complying with ever more authoritarian measures to keep them “safe”.

193694 ▶▶▶ Pancho the Grey, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #714 of 1373 🔗

Well, they know they can control the climate (they keep telling us that they know what to do) and now they want to dominate a virus. Smacks of megalomania if you ask me

193765 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #715 of 1373 🔗

I’m not sure they believe it, I think they’ve caught themselves in a trap where other people wanted them to try and so they had to pretend that they could.

193803 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #716 of 1373 🔗

Sheep end up safely served as shepherd’s pie.

193772 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to matt, 5, #717 of 1373 🔗

Sorry but this is a deleberate plan to permanently alter every aspect of humanity. The VIrus is being used as a catalyse for massive social change. It’s not a big mistake.
Good theory though. I hope you right and they are actually trying to “get out of it”. I don’t think they are. They want to push the agenda as far as they possibly can until something breaks and stops the train.

193777 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Two-Six, #718 of 1373 🔗

Great post

193788 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Two-Six, #719 of 1373 🔗

Fine. Or that.

193832 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to matt, 3, #720 of 1373 🔗

Yes, I agree. Lockdown could perhaps work if what it meant was literally imprisoning every person in an individual cell and leaving them there for quite some time. Anything less than that is doomed to fail. Ergo, suppressing the virus is impossible, unless you actually do support re-structuring society as a system of indefinite solitary confinement.
I think this logic is tangible in the sadism of the lockdown zealots: we are encountering a horrifying fantasy of relational destruction. Disorientingly, the fantasy reaches us in the form of politicians and members of the public who unvaryingly profess the virtue and kindness of their intentions. I suppose one historical parallel might be with certain nineteenth-century medical practices designed to ‘cure’ people of mental illness or social abnormality (eg clitoridectomy for women whose sexuality was considered unacceptable). Or mid-twentieth-century psychiatrists who tortured male homosexuals (‘aversion therapy’) in an attempt to heal their supposed sickness. ‘You have to be cruel to be kind’ is the marginally less self-ignorant expression of this position.

193595 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #721 of 1373 🔗

Think Burnham is about wanting more money?
Check this out:

193633 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #722 of 1373 🔗

He has got his own little agenda and it is not about the men and women who he should be representing

193636 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to stefarm, 3, #723 of 1373 🔗

I agree except that his agenda is not ‘little’, it’s global. MW

193660 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #724 of 1373 🔗

Yes, do not trust him. None of them want to put a stop to it or want normality

193634 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #725 of 1373 🔗

This is a real find, thank you. It makes t errifying reading and ticks all the boxes, ‘sustainability’, ‘gender equality’, the lot. They even have a Guangzhou award for ‘innovative practices’. I assume these would be Social Credit, enforced vaccines and constant testing, roadblocks, mandatory T&T, total control as currently being piloted in Guangzhou:


UK Column has been warning about this for ever. This is a big part of The Plan. Everything to be broken down into local Metropolitan areas with a local mayor running the show, bypassing local councils, with total power.

This is what Burnham is almost certainly signed up to and it goes way beyond just money. I do not understand why Toby Young thinks Burnham is standing up to the Government. He was screaming for a ‘circuit breaker’ only a week or so ago and would probably salivate at the idea of a ‘Guangzhou Award’. If only people would see what’s going on in plain sight. MW

193691 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 6, #726 of 1373 🔗

Burnham isn’t a hero or lockdown sceptic in any sense.

He is a globalist agenda mayor who simply wants more money from central government to keep the natives happy at home watching state propaganda.

193653 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #727 of 1373 🔗

Spain have always had powerful mayors, they’re very powerful. You’ve got to keep in with them.

193798 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #728 of 1373 🔗

In Latin America this morphed into the cacique – the ruthless, utterly corrupt local tyrant.

193609 captainbeefheart, replying to captainbeefheart, 17, #729 of 1373 🔗

Reasons to be cheerful:

  1. About 50% of people who have asked me “What do you think about the way the government has handled this?” agreed when I said “They all need locking up” without any argument. Some think this does not go far enough and will be happier if they were strung up.
  2. Of the other 50% (the ones that think “Go easy on Boris, he’s never had to deal with anything like this before”), I have found that once you calm their hysteria (things like “but 250,000 people have died in the UK so far”) and explain to them what is going on (hospitals virtually empty, cancer screening being shut down, children subjected to psychological torture), you can see that “oh shit, the government might be lying to me, I’m scared” look in their eyes.
  3. Although there was a stage of everyone wearing masks in our small town even outside, this is starting to become less prevalent.

By the way, none of the figures in this post are in any way scientific and I do tend to know a lot of “no bullshit” people so this might be the reason why. But I’ve found that most people I’ve not even met before seem to be in the “sceptical” camp.

193797 ▶▶ annie, replying to captainbeefheart, 5, #730 of 1373 🔗

I do talks fir tourists.
At the end of each talk, I mention what we hope to do ‘when this lunacy is over’.
Never had an audience yet that didn’t nod its agreement.

194396 ▶▶▶ Pen, replying to annie, #731 of 1373 🔗

Ever thought of being a bit more explicit than “when this lunacy is over”, maybe some stronger hints pointing them towards HOW to end the lunacy, Great Barrington, Herd Immunity…

193612 Che Strazio, 36, #732 of 1373 🔗

On Thursday my 2 and 1/2 yrs old granddaughter was pretending to be wearing a mask and asked me to make one for her.(WT*!) So on Friday my daughter, my granddaughter and I entered Asda living maskless! A security man chased us with his basket of masks and barked at us “Mask!” Having already ignored him 3 times, I replied with a stern voice: “I am lawfully exempt! You, however, are acting illegally! Equ…” As he took a couple of steps back I picked my granddaughter up and kissed her.
It was the first time my daughter walked into one of the Big Food store without a face covering and it was the first time I have ever been challenged this strongly. Afterwards there were a few people maskless, smiling at me.
Today I wrote a letter to Asda regarding my concerns of a few of its staff breaking the law and requesting a copy of the risk assessment they’ve done for the mask they are providing. I also asked if, by dispensing a medical equipment, are they not required to have a medical/pharmaceutical licence and biohazard bin for the safe disposal of used masks. I forgot to ask if the mask they provide is NICE endorsed!

On a positive note at The Range, there was no security on the door and nobody offering the symbol of the New Religion. The shop was very festive and full. Most of the staff was without face coverings at the tills (presumably the plastic screen are sufficient).

Every Little Helps against the New Religion and their followers -the Covidites! (I stole ‘Covidites’ from someone but I can’t remember whom to accredit him/her)

193625 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 9, #733 of 1373 🔗


When I read something like this, I no longer want to be part of this world.

193643 ▶▶ Mark, replying to A. Contrarian, 10, #734 of 1373 🔗

Even when affected, the animal’s symptoms hardly differ from influenzas and immune diseases .”

Exactly like humans, then.

That article is a classic example of the kind of exploitation of the panic by people with their own agendas that is perhaps the most long term destructive aspect of this. Written by someone who clearly hates dogs and would always have wanted to see repressive and inhumane measures like requiring dogs to be on leads at all times.

I have never doubted that dogs and other animals are likely to be reservoirs for this virus, as with other such viruses. My suspicion is that authorities have delayed pushing on that aspect because they know it will generate pushback. But as the coronapanic is more and more normalised and entrenched, expect measures like those proposed to be gradually wheeled out.

The frogs are happily enduring the rising water temperature.

There is a binary choice here, at base. Accept fear of this kind of disease and condemn us to a society of fear-filled health and hygiene obsession, and general inhumanity, forever, or reject it and go back to sensible tolerance of disease risks and realistic understanding of how diseases interact with human beings.

193659 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mark, 1, #735 of 1373 🔗

Indeed. There are a lot of agendas come crawling out from the woodwork, even a few I’ve never heard of!

193731 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, #736 of 1373 🔗

Sadly there are very few people pushing this line. Sumption, Hitchens. The MPs vaguely on our side seem in general to be shying away from going that “far” – though I do seem to remember reading Charles Walker had said “you can’t abolish death” which I am surprised did not generate more uproar – I wonder what the reaction would be if the PM came out with that? I suspect he’d get slaughtered, for what is simply the obvious truth.

193807 ▶▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to Julian, 2, #737 of 1373 🔗

Yes, Charles Walker said exactly that on the PM programme a week or so ago. It was then reported above the line here, with guidance as to which minute of the programme to skip to.

I think the psychosis is such that serious conceptual challenge – in this case, articulating the fact that our culture is currently in the grip of the fantasy that mortality first came into the world in March 2020 – cannot get any purchase. It’s like speaking to people who are sleepwalking, or hallucinating.

194048 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Alethea, #738 of 1373 🔗

our culture is currently in the grip of the fantasy that mortality first came into the world in March 2020″

Spot on

193736 ▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Mark, #739 of 1373 🔗

The same people who push the green agenda are also anti pet, particularly cats because of their bird and small mammal kills.

193766 ▶▶▶ StevieH, replying to Mark, #740 of 1373 🔗

If you read The Critic, you would know it’s a piss take!

193895 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to StevieH, 1, #741 of 1373 🔗

If you say so. I don’t read The Critic, so perhaps I missed the secret code signal for regular readers, but what I can say from having read this article is that, if it is indeed a “piss take” then it’s a very poorly written one, because a well written one takes the argument to increasing lengths of absurdity to make it clear what it is.

This one reads as no more of a “piss take” than the average government covid policy document or SAGE proposal.

What makes you think it is?

194010 ▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Mark, #742 of 1373 🔗

I’ve read other articles on The Critic and they haven’t seemed like piss takes to me. I don’t think it’s a humour magazine. I agree with your assessment.

Is the government now going to recommend the removal and destruction of pets?

194023 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to ConstantBees, 2, #743 of 1373 🔗

I was under the impression this issue had been resolved.

193645 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #744 of 1373 🔗

I remember around 60 years ago in the USA, there was a campaign to force pets and farm animals to wear nappies,to protect public “sensibilities”I believe it was later exposed as a hoax.

193661 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Fingerache Philip., #745 of 1373 🔗

Probably the word “nappies” that gave it away, lol

194011 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Fingerache Philip., #746 of 1373 🔗

Unless they called them “diapers”, it wasn’t the US.

193666 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #747 of 1373 🔗

My dog already socially distances from other dogs. The opposite with humans though.

193708 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #748 of 1373 🔗


193729 ▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to godowneasy, 3, #749 of 1373 🔗

No my dog doesn’t understand anti social distancing as unlike the human race she still enjoys companionship and touch.

193734 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to godowneasy, 1, #750 of 1373 🔗

Kennel / Canine cough is easily treated with high dose vitamin C – gone in a few days.

193719 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #751 of 1373 🔗

My cat mad friends this morning commented sth like that, apparently some MSM said sth that cats can spread it. I replied, cats spread far more dangerous diseases anyway. how many people get seriously ill from a cat scratch or nip each year?

193757 ▶▶ StevieH, replying to A. Contrarian, #752 of 1373 🔗

It’s a piss take, FFS!

194015 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to StevieH, #753 of 1373 🔗

What makes you think so? It’s not like it’s April Fools or anything like that.

193628 ianric, replying to ianric, 2, #754 of 1373 🔗

Has anyone here visited hospitals recently and have you found hospitals to be empty or if you haven’t visited hospitals personally have you heard from staff and visitors that hospitals are empty. A useful skeptic argument is that if we are in the middle of a pandemic why are hospitals not overrun with Covid patients.

193663 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to ianric, 1, #755 of 1373 🔗

Maelor hospital, on my doorstep, shows no indication whatsoever of being overrun. No sense of panic or emergency from anyone I know who works there. I may be wrong, of course, but don’t think I am.

193689 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #756 of 1373 🔗

The only panic I can see is that produced by the testdemic and surrounding myths.

I generally try to avoid conflict when I come into hospital – it’s pointless and not the place.

But I did get into a couple of arguments today over the invasiveness of useless PCR tests – which contravene basic medical harm/benefit principles.

Nursing staff (understandably) are totally ignorant of the science- they’ve been comprehensively brainwashed – to the extent that one tried the ‘thinking of other people’ meme – total bollocks, since any result obtained today would be totally irrelevant – and most probably misleading.

There is a wide perception that this is another ’emergency’ situation.

The brainwashing is immense in its falsification of perspective.

At this moment, I guess my main anger is at those who have created such conflict situations – not those who are also victims of the scam.

193664 ▶▶ RickH, replying to ianric, 1, #757 of 1373 🔗

Hospitals have gradually increased the number of patients catered for. There is a marked difference compared with earlier in the year.

But I can see no evidence of them running close to capacity – and it would be strange given what the actual numbers show.

193711 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to ianric, 2, #758 of 1373 🔗

I heard yesterday, posted first thing this morning, that Addenbrookes has just seven ICU beds occupied. Not sure if these are COVID cases but, still, for the area that this hospital caters for, this hardly represents being overwhelmed.

193717 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to kh1485, 1, #759 of 1373 🔗

I guess they are keeping the beds free and otherwise would have had complicated operations scheduled who then need ICU care.
So now we have highly skilled surgeons sitting twiddling their thumbs. I just hope they do not do any damage to their hands this way, at some point, we need them again.

194078 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to ianric, #760 of 1373 🔗

Speaking to a family member who is a theatre nurse yesterday she said the hospital is certainly busy but its because staff are off work, isolating.

193632 2 pence, replying to 2 pence, 7, #761 of 1373 🔗

Premiered 20 hours ago
Doctors speak out on misinformation surrounding the coronavirusA group of medical experts from around the country are speaking out against misinformation surrounding the coronavirus. The doctors gathered on the Supreme Court steps in the nation’s capitol Saturday morning to inform Americans not to be afraid of the virus.


193732 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to 2 pence, 1, #762 of 1373 🔗

I watched it. It is great.

193635 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 15, #763 of 1373 🔗

Am I correct in believing that people in the far East wear masks because of pollution in the atmosphere and not because of the collaborators belief that they “protect their grandparents, cousins and uncle Tom Cobley and all”

193647 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Fingerache Philip., 9, #764 of 1373 🔗

Originally it started against airborne pollution then in Japan morphed into good manners to try to prevent the spread of seasonal cold / flu.
See: https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/mask-appeal
( There have been some commentators on here trying to say that they never saw anyone wearing masks in japan,- I’ll let you decide how much new footage is hallucinatory if thats true)

The efficacy of Japanese wearing masks to stop viral spread can be seen here where the Japanese have a higher seasonal flu incidence than USA or Europe despite wearing masks to obsessive levels, i.e. the proof was already there that masks would increase viral spread:


193655 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nessimmersion, #765 of 1373 🔗

Suspicion anyway. At least, they DON’T stop the spread

193658 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Nessimmersion, #766 of 1373 🔗

Thank you for your informative reply.

193739 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Nessimmersion, 2, #767 of 1373 🔗

I lived in Japan for 9 years. Kids wore a mask to school out of consideration to others if they had a cough and they wanted to. (no compulsion to do so) They were not mandatory except at lunchtime when the kids acting as lunch servers (they take it in turns) all wore masks and aprons whilst serving out the portions of rice, soup, fish, veg etc.

193775 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to Nessimmersion, 1, #768 of 1373 🔗

That’s interesting! I always associated flu/pneumonia as diseases in cold wet places but all the worst places, with about 10x the deaths we have are in West & equitorial Africa. Now I know it can be wet but not so cold.
It always struck me as odd that covid did it’s worst during the warmest, dryest April I can remember.

193841 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to NickR, #769 of 1373 🔗

Transfer vectors,
Very good theory here on why Covid is the only aerosol transferred virus on the planet not affected by humidity.
Basically it assumes the primary transfer vector is contact same as Norovirus or Polio.
Of course that means all the anti social control and masks was entirely unnecessary.

194075 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Nessimmersion, #770 of 1373 🔗

And then we have flu disappear in Japan for 2020.


194257 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #771 of 1373 🔗

Not just Japan, virtually everywhere, there is only room for one virus in this town etc.

193654 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #772 of 1373 🔗


193670 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #773 of 1373 🔗

And to cover up bad hairdays (for girls) and prevent eye or inappropriate contact amongst the shy or women.. also, most colds and viruses come from China so.. well…

193746 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #774 of 1373 🔗

I was in Hong Kong in 2018, didn’t see anyone wearing a mask. But the weather was good and no pollution at the time.

193667 chaos, replying to chaos, 6, #775 of 1373 🔗

Retrospective Covid Thoughts #1

Those tik tok doctors and nurses. That was either just a well-meaning but unprofessional (and now unseemly) fad that caught on naturally and organically as fads and memes do…


The elite started the ball rolling, encouraging a few of them, knowing it would mess with our heads, first sowing solidarity then doubt and division and distaste and disorientation.

193804 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to chaos, 4, #776 of 1373 🔗

I’d go with the first one, i.e. bored and underworked staff jumping on a bandwagon that they should have kept well away from if they’d wanted to maintain the illusion of being NHS heroes instead of NHS slackers.

194152 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lms23, #777 of 1373 🔗

Maybe they weren’t allowed to speak the truth so decided to dance the truth out to the public instead.

194395 ▶▶▶▶ Pen, replying to Cheezilla, #778 of 1373 🔗

Perhaps they should have made the messages a bit more obvious, arranged themselves in to letters spelling out “covid is mild, stop panicking, take back your livelihoods”, or encoded that in the routines with some form of morse code.

193672 Janice21, replying to Janice21, 14, #779 of 1373 🔗

Met a friend for a walk in a country park this morning,saw one person out walking in the open fresh air wearing a mask and another girl was running and pulled up a neck scarf over their mouth as she ran past us. Shame I couldn’t escape the shit for even a couple of hours!!

193783 ▶▶ annie, replying to Janice21, 2, #780 of 1373 🔗

It’s those twats that are in the shit, not you.

194394 ▶▶▶ Pen, replying to annie, #781 of 1373 🔗

It’s those twats that ARE the shit.

193678 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 13, #782 of 1373 🔗

Thanks to Bellis’s Farm in Holt, North Wales (only just) for organizing the marvellous annual pumpkin pick this year. Apart from the scrooge council forcing the maize maze to shut, everything was as normal – very little different from last year. Several hundred kids, mums and dads in a huge field having Halloween fun (and only one masker spotted too).

193782 ▶▶ annie, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #783 of 1373 🔗

Great. There is still sanity among the Gogs.

193680 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 10, #784 of 1373 🔗

Seeing as there are fellow Irish people on here, the GBD reminds me a bit of Partition.

For those that don’t know, Michael Collins was the one who negotiated with Churchill to the creation of a 26-county state, leaving 6 still in the North (and from where I come from). Eamon De Valera didn’t go fearing he would be captured and so sent Collins with certain instructions, one being don’t come back without an agreement for the whole of Ireland. You have to remember that Carson and the Ulster Volunteer Force (covenant of blood) were operating in the North and their intention was to prevent the whole of Ireland from being made independent, so this was a large ask of De Valera

Now Churchill didn’t exactly negotiate: he threatened marshall law in Ireland for one. Collins being a military man and not a politician like Eamon de Valera eventually chose to get some rather than none.

So the loss of the 6 counties stuck in his throat but he chose progress under duress rather than than the philosophical and unobtainable Everything or Nothing. He could see it was a hiding to nothing.

However, the result caused a Philosophical battle in Ireland and resulted in the Irish Civil War killing over 3000 people, including my great uncles, one who fought for Collins and the other who fought for De Valera. Families were split apart only to come to terms some generations later.

My point is that there are things in the GBD which seem not feasible but they can be dealt with in context of the much larger things that do work i.e. opening up society and getting on with it.

It’s a chance worth taking.

194080 ▶▶ wat tyler, replying to mhcp, #785 of 1373 🔗

I’m not sure about relating it to partition but i’m very sad that in the north people aint up in arms .I,ve been hoping for a McCracken and the spirit of 98 .

193688 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 12, #786 of 1373 🔗

Train journey over. Car journey about to begin. Will post a report on the Liverpool protest when i get in

193695 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #787 of 1373 🔗

Looking forward to that!

193690 Dan Clarke, 5, #788 of 1373 🔗

Anyone been to The Three Bellends in Merseyside, the Pub sign is excellent

193703 NickR, replying to NickR, 4, #789 of 1373 🔗

I thought this chart was fairly illustrative of the point Ivor Cummins, Mike Yeadon & Carl Heneghen have been making that the profile of deaths is very different to in the spring.
No one is or has said that their won’t be more fatalities but that in probability the order of magnitude is likely to be more like a bad flu season.

193714 ▶▶ Mark, replying to NickR, 3, #790 of 1373 🔗

Bear in mind that as far as the numbers are concerned (and even accepting the official inflated numbers), even the BBC has effectively admitted that the original overall Covid effect was just a “bad flu season” by publishing this graph:

193721 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Mark, 3, #791 of 1373 🔗

they are all still clinging on to the 450,000 avoided deaths which was why lockdown was necessary

193724 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to steve_w, 3, #792 of 1373 🔗

Should have predicted two million and fifty thousand deaths. Then they could claim two million saved.

193778 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #793 of 1373 🔗

Or twenty million…

193873 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to annie, 4, #794 of 1373 🔗

I got rather tired of telling one group of people that 510,000 deaths was explicitly not a prediction but a Reasonable Worst Case. Now it seems I’ll be spending an equal amount of time saying the same thing to another group. Lockdown didn’t “save” 450,000 deaths, any more than taking out fire insurance “saved” your house from burning down.

193980 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #795 of 1373 🔗

Ooh, that’s a good one. “Taking out fire insurance ‘saved’ your house from burning down.” Off to find a home for that one. Thanks.

193725 ▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to steve_w, 2, #796 of 1373 🔗

Damage limitation, they could say anything really. People do when you mention anything, well, you could have had so many deaths if you had had 7 at a table, or 16 at a wedding for instance

193726 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to steve_w, 4, #797 of 1373 🔗

Still clinging to everyone being equally vulnerable as well.

193727 ▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Will, 1, #798 of 1373 🔗

nice paper which has age specific IFR


basically younger than 45 not as bad as flu, over 45 worse than flu (assuming IFR for flu is 0.1%)

193760 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to steve_w, 1, #799 of 1373 🔗

Thank you for this. I was just about to ask if anyone had something on this because a friend wanted some help trying to persuade her parents to start behaving like human beings again n

193812 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to matt, #800 of 1373 🔗

Or if you want actual death rates, look at David Speigelhalter’s Medium blog What are the risks of COVID? And what is meant by ‘the risks of COVID’?

194199 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Richard Pinch, #801 of 1373 🔗

This paper has little to say about the probability of an individual dying from C-19 now that we are so near herd immunity. Perhaps it would be possible to add that to the analysis.

193818 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to steve_w, #802 of 1373 🔗

Still a big shift in their own narrative.

193773 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to NickR, 2, #803 of 1373 🔗

The charts for the Netherlands are quite heartening: a little blip in deaths and then down again:

193780 ▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Mabel Cow, #804 of 1373 🔗

Similar casedemic?

193817 ▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Yawnyaman, 4, #805 of 1373 🔗

It’s testdemic all the way down.

For anyone to present a chart showing “number of positives” without dividing it by the number of tests is patently absurd.

And even if they did report positivity %, given that the tests are supposedly only for people who are symptomatic, the results cannot be used to make any generalisation about the population as a whole because the sample is obviously not representative.

To my mind, it’s the first rule of statistics that your sample must be representative. Otherwise, all bets are off.

The ONS’s prevalence survey does a better job (false positives not withstanding) because it (supposedly) uses a representative sample. That said, I’ve seen reports here that only “stay at homers” are being tested, so once again, the sample is biased.

The solution is so simple it makes me want to cry:

  1. Stop testing the general population.
  2. Look only at the deaths.
  3. Accept that there is a time lag between exposure and death. Tough shit.
  4. Carry out a post mortem to determine (as far as possible) the true cause of each death.
  5. Publish the results once per week using date of death not date of registration.

But of course, showing what is really happening is not politically useful, so it won’t happen.

193938 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jane in France, replying to Mabel Cow, 4, #806 of 1373 🔗

There’s a very funny French play, written in 1923, called “Knock, or The Triumph of Medicine.” Here’s a quote: “You give me a canton populated by a few thousand neutral, indeterminate individuals. My role is to determine them, to bring them into medical existence. I put them to bed, and I see what will come out of them: a tuberculosis patient, a neuropath, an arteriosclerotic, whatever we want, but somebody, damn it! someone! Nothing annoys me like this flesh and fish being that you call a healthy man.”

193706 NoMoreLockdownDoNotComply, replying to NoMoreLockdownDoNotComply, 5, #807 of 1373 🔗

Just added four fake sigs to that “John Snow” idiocy. lets see hpw the tabloids take it when Dr Kneeling Ferguson, Fakey McFakeface, and others from the Westminster and Whitehall schools of Police Brutality, and Economic carnage (rexpectively) are found my the right wing media. Look for those ginatures at abiut the time of 16:15 on Sunday 18th Oct, I’m not sure how to view the listing on that website, but no doubt someone will find and publicise these fake names.

193770 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to NoMoreLockdownDoNotComply, #808 of 1373 🔗

I wonder if their signing process filters out emails from mailinator.com .

193816 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to NoMoreLockdownDoNotComply, #809 of 1373 🔗

Ah, but the fakes will be from people who must hide their identity…

193707 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 51, #810 of 1373 🔗

Real Pandemic

Everyone knows seriously ill and/or dead people from the immediate area.

Doctor’s office and hospitals in the entire country are overcrowded

There are a lot of deaths.

Politicians and doctors do everything to calm down people.

Politician do everything to keep the economy going

Facts are sought and found in a wide range of specialist committees, and every meaningful help in need is accepted.

There are (at best) no organized profiteers

A quick end and a timely, appropriate all-clear according to clear guidelines are sought

People are afraid of dying and do everything they can to protect themselves, with politicians providing information about unnecessary overreactions

People are struggling with a humanitarian disaster.

Staged Pandemic

Cases of illness are only known from the media or from stories of others.

Short-time work and vacancies in hospitals, increased anxious patients in doctor’s office.

Constant year-over-year mortality,

Politician do everything to spread panic and to intimidate people.

Economy is deliberately stalled. Entire sectors are being destroyed.

Renowned scientists are ignored and publicly discredited in the media.

Billions in profits through collusion, deals and lobbying

Changing findings, constantly adjusted guidelines and ever new regulations prolong the pandemic.

People fear punishment, measures are enforced through social pressure, police violence and heavy fines.

People are struggling with a humanitarian disaster.

What do you think?
Real or staged pandemic?

193718 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Jay Berger, 28, #811 of 1373 🔗

Absolutely. I’ve always said that if the threat was real with a huge number of deaths and seriously ill people then the restrictions wouldn’t need to be enforced. People would recognise the seriousness of the situation and comply out of a sense of self preservation, not the fear of a hefty fine.

193722 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Jay Berger, 22, #812 of 1373 🔗

There was a moment when it being real was plausible and one could excuse some caution, since then it has been theatre, deception and collective hysteria

Ramping up the fear may well prove to be more damaging than any of the other restrictions – those can be lifted, but the fear and what it enables and makes people expect/demand will take years to subside to the point where we can live normally again

193745 ▶▶▶ ProfCliveH, replying to Julian, 8, #813 of 1373 🔗

If you know anything about abusive relationship dynamics the initial period is of the victim believing the abuser is not abusive and their intentions are not malicious. It’s the honeymoon period, if you will.

So the aim was always to garner enough fear, anxiety, paranoia and then force the trust of people in the UK to submit before the REAL intentions become apparent. When an abusive person knows they have you and you’ve practically surrendered yourselves to them it now becomes a case of undoing the dysfunctional attachment and realising what is actually happening. Eventually the reality of what is happening starts to appear after the love bombing, idealisation, romance etc.

The public, I feel, are in this process right now. The blue of the abusive relationship is starting to clear and people are scratching their heads wanting to know what the ***k has been going on.

It’s now simply a case of trying to grab as much time as you can to mitigate damage control before the next chapter involves the abuser making a run for it while trying to avoid being held responsible. And so expect distractions, more false narratives, blame shifting etc anything that gives the abuser enough road between you and them to leverage control over the situation to make sure they escape accountability.

Sad that the abuser in this example is the very government millions before this were not really aware of could do such a thing.

193978 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to ProfCliveH, 3, #814 of 1373 🔗

I suspect those of us who have been in abusive relationships may have recognised the dynamic early on.

193735 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Jay Berger, 19, #815 of 1373 🔗

Plus if it really was a once in a century pandemic then we would be far more concerned with burying the dead, having hazmat suits and any possible treatments than what time the pubs close, believing in the Magic Mask Powers and downloading shitty apps. As someone on Reddit commented, “Ebola never needed a marketing campaign.”

193953 ▶▶▶ Emily Tock, replying to DRW, 3, #816 of 1373 🔗

Don’t forget the refrigerator trucks in NYC leaking blood and decomposition fluid! I expressed doubt about THAT story on Twitter and was PILED on …

193720 Jonathan Palmer, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 29, #817 of 1373 🔗

Just seen this graffiti on an empty shop in New Bond Street on one of Londons most exclusive streets.
‘Britain’s Future’
Just about sums it up for me

193810 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #818 of 1373 🔗

I have been watching the descent of New York over the past few months on a channel where they often do walks around central Manhattan. Compared with New York, central London seems to have gotten off very lightly with the business closures – so far, perhaps landlords are simply deferring rent for longer to stave off the inevitable. New York might hit 50% vacancies by spring. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StVLokuOyQ8

194178 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Darryl, #819 of 1373 🔗

Has everyone left for Florida?

193730 ProfCliveH, replying to ProfCliveH, 2, #820 of 1373 🔗

Disgusting that the very picture for this article was no doubt an idea the establishment deliberately brought into reality through their own propoganda arms and varied apparatus to blackmail the public into assuming a helpless role that if they fought they would be hurting the poor victim ie the NHS and innocent superhero nurses and doctors on the “front lines” of the staged pandemic.

No NHS worker has done anything to fight the pandemic as its 99% political and the rest, well, the stats on survival rates and overall severity speak for themselves. The NHS simply was and still is, a pawn in the whole affair being used to play a role in something that has long since gone beyond medicine, science and evidence based policy decisions.

I’m not attacking the NHS nor its workers I just know they are pawns being exploited to play to emotionally blackmail and gaslight the British public into submitting to the tyranny that has been apparent for several months now. The NHS do a great job, but that’s their job. If there is an issue with recognition perhaps our very government should start looking after the f*cking NHS and its staff in the first place instead of blaming the British public who know how valuable the NHS is and have done since well before COVID-1984 came about

It makes me sick to think innocent workers in the NHS were used as cannon fodder to pose for feel-good emotionally charged propoganda to deliberately manipulate the people into submission by saying that if they didn’t they would be responsible for the NHS crashing down. The government are the ones responsible for failing to look after the NHS among other failing systems they are tasked with looking after. If it went down it would be THEIR fault! Not ours!!

People need to see that the NHS is being held at gunpoint while the ones forced to make a difficult decision based on natural human vulnerability and a predisposition to compromise and avoid conflict are being manipulated into believing the NHS actually have any real say and/or influence in this whole disgusting power grab and stranglehold over the lives of millions and millions of people.

193885 ▶▶ RickH, replying to ProfCliveH, 2, #821 of 1373 🔗

the whole affair being used to play a role in something that has long since gone beyond medicine, science and evidence based policy decisions.”


193733 AnotherSceptic, replying to AnotherSceptic, 19, #822 of 1373 🔗

Lol…I posted an article from the Manchester evening news website about the police now fining people for not wearing masks.

Well, I also decided to comment against the scared people among the commenters,

I replied to the comment below from a scared sheep
“ not as ridiculous as those ICU people with all those tubes dangling out”

This is what I replied
“ Oh turn it in. If you actually look beyond the mainstream media & their outrageous fear mongering reporting, you will actually see that this “virus” is no worse the the flu & the 92% of people who have died from it, had underlying health issues. Also, the world has always had viruses since time began & has never ever locked down. This is all getting beyond a joke now, life has to return to normal ASAP. If you, or people like you who are scared of the “virus” want to stay locked away inside your homes, then you do that. But for others, including me, I want to get on with my life without fear & draconian restrictions on my life & liberties.

I just got these replies to my comment…LOL! I have never professed to being a Doctor btw…

“ Well if you read the peer-reviewed scientific literature (and most of it is non-paywalled and easy to find through pubmed) you will find
COVID-19 is caused by a virus
COVID-19 is much worse than most years’ seasonal flu but you are right that it may not be as bad as the worst flu such as the 1918 flu (which killed more people than WW1)
In the UK, a large proportion of the population are over 60 or have underlying health issues such as diabetes, obesity, asthma, high blood pressure, etc
The countries that have handled COVID-19 well are generally countries that know how to lock down because the did it previously for viruses such as Ebola, SARS, MERS etc
I personally have no objection of people choosing to get infected – as long as they don’t end up occupying ICU beds which should be occupied by cancer and cardiovascular patients”

“ This virus is no worse than the flu? Between January and August 2020, there were 48,168 deaths due to Covid-19. Only 394 were due to flu. Facts from the Office of National Statistics. Clearly it is no worse than the flu. Most people who die from the flu also have underlying health issues, but it does not kill at anything remotely like the rate that Covid-19 does. Educate yourself and stop watching schizophrenic Youtube videos”


“ They also protect the vulnerable and weak from death. You can carry a virus and transmit it without knowing it, resulting in someone else being very sick or dying. If you can reduce the chance of this by even 1% by the simple inconvenience of wearing a mask then why is it an issue to you? Narcissism and selfishness”

“ There are long term after effects from COVID. I really hope the ones not wearing masks get it and suffer badly selfish pricks”


“ “92% of people who have died from it, had underlying health issues”
So you’re saying that it’s killed 3,500 perfectly healthy people despite shutting down the country down to try and contain it? Sounds serious to me.
Also are you saying those 92% of people don’t matter? That it’s not a problem if the asthmatics and the elderly and the diabetics and the overweight die? Quite the body count for your perceived civil liberties. I hope that the right to… not wear a mask in a shop is worth it”

“ You are one of the ones who dont know any better I’m afraid ..and only thinking about yourself being able to run riot everywhere .You are probably in the age bracket that won’t get it seriously…think about people who do!”

“ You’re obviously not a doctor so your points don’t carry much weight.
ps. If you’re wondering how I know you’re not a doctor; well you quote the word “virus” and say it’s no worse than flu. Also, using made up percentages and saying we’ve “never ever locked down” as a result of a virus. Ebola, American Polio epidemic; heard of them? The Spanish flu (although not a virus) did have some quarantines but spread through the movement of WWI troops. The second wave being far more deadly the first.”

So….I have obviously upset the scared people.
It’s going to be a long battle here folks.
I am subsequently barred from commenting now…I wonder why? I have no idea…lol

193742 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to AnotherSceptic, 9, #823 of 1373 🔗

WOW, brainwashed fools. Incredible. Yes this is what we are up against. Very depressing. Still the people that comment in these places are in their own echo chamber trying to out do each other in their lockdown approval ratings and how bad they think “IT” is.

193747 ▶▶▶ AnotherSceptic, replying to Two-Six, 1, #824 of 1373 🔗

I even got my first thumbs down from on here? Oh well..Can’t please all the people all of the time.

193751 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to AnotherSceptic, 2, #825 of 1373 🔗

Yeah, I thought that was a bit odd. Don’t worry about it – I’ve had several. You get over it!

193813 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to AnotherSceptic, 2, #826 of 1373 🔗

Thumbs down are good, shows you’re making people think.

193846 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to AnotherSceptic, 2, #827 of 1373 🔗

I sometimes clicked on thumbs down by mistake, especially if I am on the phone. Cannot reverse it.

193908 ▶▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Silke David, 3, #828 of 1373 🔗

I think if you uptick it removes the downtick?

193950 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to CGL, 2, #829 of 1373 🔗


193749 ▶▶ DRW, replying to AnotherSceptic, 2, #830 of 1373 🔗

You should ask them to give an example of a previous modern LD.
And as for the appeal to authority, link the 2019 WHO refutal of “prolonged mass quarantine”.

193752 ▶▶▶ AnotherSceptic, replying to DRW, 3, #831 of 1373 🔗

True, but It’s pointless trying to make your point to them though, I even got called a prick!!
& now my subsequent comments are “awaiting moderation” Hmmmm..

The government propaganda machine appears to be working pretty effectively going by the replies I received.

193758 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to AnotherSceptic, 4, #832 of 1373 🔗

Sadly, if they’ve been taken in by the sUpEr dUpEr dEaDlY vIrUs MSM meme then they’ll just immediately reject anything contrary. My family can be like that at times.

193761 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to AnotherSceptic, 2, #833 of 1373 🔗

I too have been commenting on the GMP and mask story. As the website is run by Reach plc, one login gives access to all of their “publications” and hence ability to comment on their stories. Could this be a means by which counter arguments can be spread?

193806 ▶▶▶ AnotherSceptic, replying to p02099003, 3, #834 of 1373 🔗

I didn’t know that, however, I cannot now spread any counter arguments on their website/s….my commenting ability has since been disabled.
Censorship…it’s a bastard.

193975 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to AnotherSceptic, 2, #835 of 1373 🔗

Create a new email address. Delete the cookies related to that company from your computer. Create a new account with the new email address. Did that myself on the Daily Mail website when my first account got modded to death.

193856 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to AnotherSceptic, 4, #836 of 1373 🔗

The countries that handled COVID well are attributed to mask wearing and apparently an ‘early lockdown’. No, they had previous exposure to the SARS virus and already have some immunity as COVID 19 is not novel. This is the most obvious conclusion.

194388 ▶▶▶ Pen, replying to JHuntz, #837 of 1373 🔗

The worst hit parts of the world have been ultra-remote cities in the amazonian region, the sort of place where regular colds hardly ever reach to. Cross-immunity to earlier coronaviruses (mostly colds as sars1 never went very far) is playing a huge role here.

193881 ▶▶ RickH, replying to AnotherSceptic, 3, #838 of 1373 🔗

It’s going to be a long battle here folks.”

I fear so. The propaganda machine is immense and comprehensive, and the majority of the population just don’t have the skills or insight to counter it.

The quotations that you give are interesting in terms of the preconceptions burned into minds by the psy-ops lies perpetrated by the Goebbels Brigade of SPI-B.

It is a testament to the depth of falsehoods perpetrated by the journalistic whores that populate the media.

Sorry – I shouldn’t have used that image. Prostitution is an honest and legitimate way of earning a living. Journalism, in the modern sense, isn’t.

194174 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to RickH, 1, #839 of 1373 🔗

The trouble is that we need to make inroads to false conceptions that so many people harbour, and we don’t have much time.

194293 ▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to RickH, #840 of 1373 🔗

Prostitution is all too frequently done by terrorised women trafficked on the same terms as teenage cannabis farmers by evil gangland criminals.

194390 ▶▶▶▶ Pen, replying to Sylvie, #841 of 1373 🔗

And those gangland crooks will be able to do even more of both every time the cops decide to go out and harass ordinary shopkeepers instead of doing their real job.

193912 ▶▶ CGL, replying to AnotherSceptic, 1, #842 of 1373 🔗

These are exactly the emotional and shutting down the debate by insult sort of arguments we must come up against every day – can we go through each of them and find an unemotional response?

194391 ▶▶▶ Pen, replying to CGL, #843 of 1373 🔗

I’ve had supposed friends give me those kind of emotional arguments when I’ve tried to correct the error of their ways, I politely tried to point them towards telling statistics that prove the virus isn’t worth fearing. They shut off reasoning and reply with parroted government propaganda, and these are friends who hate this government. Don’t know how to respond without turning on “insulting mode” in my own replies, reason doesn’t work with lockdown zealots.

193998 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to AnotherSceptic, 2, #844 of 1373 🔗

Remember Dante’s Inferno? Dante and Virgil have to traverse all nine circles before getting out. And even then it’s through Satan’s nutsack.

This is what we have to endure

194392 ▶▶▶ Pen, replying to mhcp, #845 of 1373 🔗

If we have to go through Boris’s nutsack I hope we find a malignant tumour as we go past, and should we do so we won’t tell him about it. Let him suffer like all those poor people denied cancer apointments from the N”H”S due to his panic policies.

194387 ▶▶ Pen, replying to AnotherSceptic, #846 of 1373 🔗

Manchester Evening News, maybe we should all pay that site a visit together at an agree hour, all set up fake accounts in the several days beforehand and post innocous comments with them earlier on (to defeat any “first 5 comments from new posters get pre-moderated” type thing) then at the agreed time pile on to every lockdown related story and provide a second wave worth (well given how the so-called second wave is going, rather more than that) of anti-lockdown commentary. Get the fools overwhelmed, just the way that hospitals never will be or have been (by this crappy virus anyway).

193740 Eddy, replying to Eddy, 4, #847 of 1373 🔗
193811 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Eddy, 1, #848 of 1373 🔗

Nice beginning at Fflint railway station :o))

Was in London yesterday, but attended the Liverpool demo today. Looks like a good turnout yesterday

194095 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Eddy, #849 of 1373 🔗

That was a nice touch about the police – “They don’t want to come in and break this up, so don’t give them the excuse to come in.”

Glad there were no shit-stirrers there!
Manchester is watching ….

193741 Victoria, 5, #850 of 1373 🔗

‘Lockdowns are a big mistake:’ World Health Organization and other experts now ADMIT global economic shutdowns for COVID-19 are WRONG

193744 David McCluskey, replying to David McCluskey, 20, #851 of 1373 🔗

Let’s consider whether there is a more prosaic explanation as to why the Government’s Cd19 propaganda has been so successful.

The unprecedented new twist in the dark art of government propaganda: warn the masses that it’s not just that you and your loved ones might die, but that YOU will be responsible for killing them, by bringing the infection home. Brilliant! Goebbels would be weeping with envy!

Then consider the health of the UK population in respect of just ONE common disease, asthma.

Using asthma.org.uk figures :

  • 5.4 million people in the UK are currently receiving treatment for asthma: 1.1 million children (1 in 11) and 4.3 million adults (1 in 12).

At the start of restrictions (please, resist using their US jail terminology – we are not convicts!) asthma sufferers were labelled as ‘vulnerable’. Let’s assume that the average size of the household of asthma suffers is the UK average size of 2.3. Multiplied by 5.4M gives 12.4M. That’s almost 19% of the UK population. So the gov.uk propaganda immediately had that group of 12.4M of the population utterly petrified owing to just a single morbidity, around half fearing they were going to die and the remainder terrified that they might kill their loved ones. Then add the tens of millions of other suffers of the common morbidities: obesity, diabetes, dementia, etc, etc.

Do we need to look any further for the reason why the population has been so remarkably submissive? Even the Government couldn’t believe what they’d pulled off!

193779 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to David McCluskey, 9, #852 of 1373 🔗

You are absolutely right. I didn’t realised the scale of the impact until you made me think about it. I know several people who think they are likely to die from Covid because they have asthma. One was absolutely convinced he was going to die until I deprogrammed him, one of only two people I have successfully helped to escape comprehensive brain-washing.

193858 ▶▶ RickH, replying to David McCluskey, 3, #853 of 1373 🔗

Thanks for an intelligent comment about the susceptibility to propaganda, rather than just counter-bleating about how stupid people are.

No – I don’t have any easy solutions as to how to counter it – except by trying to put out alternative, rational evidence.

And that’s hard enough

But I know that just bleating isn’t going to convert anyone.

193867 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to RickH, 3, #854 of 1373 🔗

Bleating won’t convert anyone, but it serves a purpose, which is for people who are feeling put upon by life to let off some steam. I highly doubt that anyone will come here who isn’t at least already beginning to see the light.

193949 ▶▶▶▶ David McCluskey, replying to matt, 1, #855 of 1373 🔗

Yip, an echo-chamber unfortunately.

194082 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to David McCluskey, 2, #856 of 1373 🔗

I disagree. It’s also an extremely valuable source of information!

We’ve had a lot of new people join us recently and, while they might already have their eyes open, they might now be looking for confirmation of their suspicions and/or facts and figures to pass on to their friends and family.

193922 ▶▶ Jane in France, replying to David McCluskey, 5, #857 of 1373 🔗

I used to be asthmatic and it’s a scary thing. So I think I too might have been a bit less sceptical if I’d still been getting asthma. Luckily I managed to cure it by going semi paleo. There’s an excellent website here https://www.jdmoyer.com/2010/07/17/how-i-cured-my-asthma-with-one-simple-lifestyle-change/ I would say that a great many chronic illnesses could also be cured by lifestyle changes. The trouble is, the government’s advice to base meals on starchy foods and avoid saturated fats is the very worst advice they could possibly give. Poor diet leads to obesity, diabetes, depression and all sorts of things and leaves you dependent on medical care for anything that is going about.

193966 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Jane in France, 2, #858 of 1373 🔗

I still consider myself to be asthmatic, although I have very few problems with it unless I stick a piece of cloth on my face and expect to breath through it. I found that keeping my home clean made a lot of difference. I’ve gone on a low(er) carb diet and got rid of processed foods. I agree about the saturated fats. Went back to eating more meat, eggs and fish. Use butter when I cook. I’ve lost 10 kg so far and feeling 100% better these days. Even my arthritis seems to be less of a problem. But then we know that the government doesn’t know much about keeping people healthy.

194083 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jane in France, #859 of 1373 🔗

Hence the deliberate culling of expensive T2 diabetics.

193748 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #860 of 1373 🔗

So it looks like the teachers are at it again – forcing a lockdown as per March:


193784 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #861 of 1373 🔗

As someone pointed out yesterday, a circuit breaker will trip again when reset unless the underlying problem is fixed.

193945 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to arfurmo, 2, #862 of 1373 🔗

Sums up lockdown exactly

194384 ▶▶▶ Pen, replying to arfurmo, #863 of 1373 🔗

Say no to current restrictions, I ain’t staying at ohm. We have the potential to change this. Boris and Hancock will be charged, then they can share a cell.

193754 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 2, #864 of 1373 🔗

Anybody from Canada here? I’m just wondering what the isolation camps are about? It’s sounding terrifying but would like more info. Thank you.

193756 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Country Mumkin, #865 of 1373 🔗

Lisa might know.

193769 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Country Mumkin, 4, #866 of 1373 🔗

There was some coverage of this here at 8 minutes, the guy is Canadian – https://www.bitchute.com/video/YGRRMH0fzcjv/ . It is well worth watching for the Independent politician asking about the plans for detaining people in detention camps (there is no mention of people who test positive for Covid 19, these are clearly meant for political dissenters) the Canadian premier avoids answering the question and further questioning is cut off by the house speaker. The camps are being prepared and the roadmap looks a distinct possibility.

Stopping this agenda coming in is like stopping a juggernaut.

193822 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Darryl, 1, #867 of 1373 🔗

I saw that coverage elsewhere. I’m shocked and terrified. Surely this cannot be. How will they deliver this?

193875 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Country Mumkin, 5, #868 of 1373 🔗

Well, they’re called “voluntary quarantine facilities” — I’m pretty sure the government is not calling them internment camps, but I guess time will tell. They are supposedly designed for people who are unable to safely and effectively quarantine at home, like people who live in large, crowded households. The are also being proposed for people entering the country who have nowhere to self-isolate. Other cities in North America have co-opted hotel spaces for this purpose (like Toronto is set to do), so it’s not a strictly Canadian endeavour. One of our independent MPPs has raised the issue in the provincial parliament — he refers to them as internment camps — and gets laughed at, but yet no answers have been forthcoming. So it’s definitely shady and there is a serious lack of transparency, so does bear watching.

193888 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 2, #869 of 1373 🔗

Thank you very much Lisa. This has made me feel a little better.

Having discovered it, everything else felt like it paled into insignificant.

I wrote to my MP about the coronavirus bill and mentioned the isolation thing and he said the same as you.

It’s been the most worried and scared I’ve been so far, by a long chalk.

Thanks again for explaining this 🌸

193755 Darryl, replying to Darryl, 35, #870 of 1373 🔗

I was struck by the mostly sneering and condescending attitude toward the London anti-lockdown protest particularly by 2 groups – groups of mask wearing youngsters in Oxford Street and also the wealthy middle class types around Covent Garden. The media reaction of anti-vaxxers etc is entirely predictable – and just discredits their brands even further.

The youths are probably brainwashed by the state education system and social media propaganda – so they can be forgiven for not knowing better. Plus they will suffer the consequences of the ‘new normal’ for longer than I will.

I have particular contempt for the sneering middle class types who look down on those who question lockdown and the ‘new normal’ from their comfy existences – hopefully some of their jobs will be relocated to cheaper parts of the world in due course and they find themselves on Universal Basic Income.

Much was made about the introduction of Tier 2 restrictions on Friday and how the London public supported them. Every table of mask wearing snobs I saw in restaurants and pubs last night clearly had people mixing from several households – the hypocrisy is staggering.

193762 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Darryl, 12, #871 of 1373 🔗

But the rules are for other people? Didn’t you get the memo? lol

I’d left before Covent Garden, but I noticed the youths taking the piss. They have no depth of experience for perspective.

193781 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Nick Rose, 8, #872 of 1373 🔗

The youths in London are really pathetic and seem very pro establishment – they have been easy to propagandise due to their addiction to mobile phones and virtue signalling social media. Certain demographics where knife crime and violence sadly take many lives each year have particularly surprised me with their blind compliance and willingness to wear masks outdoors – they don’t realise they won’t get their old lives back.

193794 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Darryl, 3, #873 of 1373 🔗

Prefer the virtue signalling…

193796 ▶▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to Darryl, 14, #874 of 1373 🔗

My daughter said All my friends distrust the government on everything except Covid. They have been brainwashed. It is psy op and they have no life experience to understand it.

193897 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to JulieR, 5, #875 of 1373 🔗

they take it in whether it is Boris or Greta . . They have years of education that has not taught them how to think – so they dont

193898 ▶▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to JulieR, 6, #876 of 1373 🔗

Yes – this has occurred to me everyone I know who would never vote Tory is lapping it all up. I can’t imagine very many teachers would either. I voted for them and will never do so again – I do not believe a single word they utter. They cannot be trusted.

193919 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to JulieR, 1, #877 of 1373 🔗

I don’t understand why they’d distrust the government on everything else, but believe them over this.

194377 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Pen, replying to Lms23, #878 of 1373 🔗

Brainwashed via social media, via channels they have been falsely led to believe are anti-government.

193763 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Darryl, 12, #879 of 1373 🔗

It’s the proto-Hitler Youth that concerns me the most. If this nonsense goes on much longer, we’re going to have an entire cohort of mask Fascists that the government can wield as it suits them.

193768 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Mabel Cow, 11, #880 of 1373 🔗

My daughters and all their friends have no time for all this and I think the jeering youths would change their tune when they realise they can’t go into McDonald’s together

193786 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 4, #881 of 1373 🔗

I do agree that the youths might not enjoy winter as much as summer as hanging around outside in the wind and rain isn’t much fun. But many seem happy to retreat into the world of technology and appear quite happy with life as long as they continue to receive new programming and distractions.

193939 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Darryl, 2, #882 of 1373 🔗

I disagree.ive seen loads of young people ignoring the restrictions.I say the level of compliance is no different to the rest of society

193957 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #883 of 1373 🔗

Perhaps my perception is due to the groups of mask wearing youths in city centre locations – they were certainly the least compliant when we were released from lockdown in the summer – I just fear the schools brainwashing have built in higher compliance.

194378 ▶▶▶▶▶ Pen, replying to Darryl, #884 of 1373 🔗

What they’re too stupid to see, in their idiotic reatreat, is that their rights in the digital world get eroded along with those in the physical. This government sh1ts on their cyber rights via atrocties such as the snoopers charter, the less physical rights people have the more cyber rights will be squezed further.

193767 ▶▶ johnthebridge, replying to Darryl, 7, #885 of 1373 🔗

I do think that what you describe and rightly condemn is a particularly London thing. There really does seem to be a “bubble” (utterly ridiculous word) that exists in London and not in the sticks.
I refuse to wear a mask anywhere I live in Gloucestershire, and I can only say that no-one I’ve noticed seems to give a damn.

193774 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Darryl, 6, #886 of 1373 🔗

It’s true us youths are probably the most brainwashed generation, with SM the prime culprit.
Yet the local teenagers never stopped hanging out together, the sole act of noncompliance back in the Spring. Social class is probably the larger factor, given they are predominantly from the least affluent estate.

193799 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to DRW, 2, #887 of 1373 🔗

Certainly the case where I live. Pretty much nothing at all changed here.

193787 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to Darryl, 8, #888 of 1373 🔗

I made my 20 year old daughter watch Ivor Cummins September video and Crimes against humanity video. She stopped calling me a conspiracy theorist but still believes in mask wearing.
I told her that if people keep complying if would go on longer.
Once her friends and her finish uni next year and cannot find jobs maybe they will change their position.

193791 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Darryl, 11, #889 of 1373 🔗

Gen Y and Z are incapable of critical thinking.
They are shallow herd animals, woke climate change zealots and completely full of themselves.
They fully deserve what they’ll get now.
(The few exceptions command particular respect and admiration.)

193847 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #890 of 1373 🔗

The resentful simple-minded generalisations and typiifications seen here are the last thing we need to counter the propaganda.

How to lose credibility in one easy move.

193876 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to RickH, 1, #891 of 1373 🔗

The difficulty is how do we counter the propaganda deliberately targeted at that generation. They have been deliberately groomed into ‘following’ social media stars and watching the lives of others.

The fact that single tweets are often seen to be newsworthy and can cost people their jobs and social standing show how shallow society has become and I can completely understand why people would feel the pressure to conform.

193871 ▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #892 of 1373 🔗

Also many are untitled and selfish.

193933 ▶▶▶▶ David McCluskey, replying to JulieR, #893 of 1373 🔗

And definitely entitled. : )

193952 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to JulieR, 1, #894 of 1373 🔗

Calling people selfish is not a productive strategy. Personally, I’m tired of being called selfish for being opposed to lockdowns. I’m not going to call young people selfish because they are absorbed in living their own lives. That’s just more divide and conquer.

194380 ▶▶▶▶ Pen, replying to JulieR, #895 of 1373 🔗

The entitled and selfish oens are those freaks who evangelise pro-lockdown zealotry to their friends and their social media “friends”. Anyone out violating coronapanic restrictions is the opposite of selfish, they’re doing good for everyone. The only way out of this bullsh1t is building herd immunity for ourselves.

193940 ▶▶ Eddy, replying to Darryl, 1, #896 of 1373 🔗

Watch this excellent presentation on the subject. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy3tP-BW5do&feature=youtu.be

193771 James Marker, 17, #897 of 1373 🔗

Interesting interview with Tim Spector (the man who developed the symptom tracker app) published in the BMJ. Amongst other things he notes “immunity in the wider population has been underestimated… many of the people out on the streets (in London) must be immune by now”. Immunuty is the most obvious explanation for why there is no second wave. The data published on the government’s own dashboard clearly show the recent increase in fatalities is no more than a ripple and that the peak may already have been reached. And yet SAGE and the MSM continue to warn of hundreds of thousands of fatalities to come. Sadly, people continue to believe it. If they only stopped to think for one minute they would realise it’s rubbish. After all, as many people have already pointed out, there should be thousands of dead supermarket and shop workers by now – and there aren’t.

193785 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 14, #898 of 1373 🔗

Right-o, Liverpool protest (near, but not actually in, Clayton Square) today. I attended London yesterday, else would have attended yesterday’s Liverpool protest.

A fairly good turnout for a Sunday, roughly two thousand. Given the protests in Liverpool are a new thing, this isn’t too bad. The speakers weren’t too bad and were the usual mix. Some of what they have to say I agree with, some of it I don’t. The usual mix from anybody’s point of view I would say.

Even better, unlike London, the police were very low key, a refreshing change in my opinion. Passers-by were at least stopping for a listen, and most of the crowd stayed in place until after Piers Corbyn’s speech.

Strange not to see Geyzor in his top hat and tails costume… Given these are the first protests in Liverpool, then they are off to a good start.

Next large rally is in London (location to be confirmed, suspect Trafalgar Square) next Saturday, 24th October.

193831 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #899 of 1373 🔗

It was interesting that in Trafalgar Square yesterday the fountains which were turned on full to the point of deliberately getting people wet at the last 2 anti-lockdown rallies were turned off completely – what a coincidence.

The Territorial Support Group were waiting in force at St James Park for the protest yesterday if it moved onto Downing Street. The nearer you get to the Devil’s liar and New Scotland Yard the higher risk the protest becomes. Also standing listening to speakers for any period of time gives the establishment / police the opportunity to enforce social distancing and assembly rules.

193836 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Darryl, 5, #900 of 1373 🔗

It’s true to say that we aren’t welcome in Trafalgar Square. All the more reason to go. It’s lovely and dry up by the National Gallery though :o))

The police have never forgiven us for protesting outside New Scotland Yard on the 19th September. That caught ’em napping, lol. Like yesterday, when we turned into Leicester Square. They weren’t expecting that one either.

193868 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Nick Rose, 5, #901 of 1373 🔗

History shows Trafalgar Square is best avoided for non-approved causes, it’s very easy for police to instigate / stage violence and give the mainstream media their propaganda images.

Central London is so comprehensively covered with CCTV and informants I suspect the Met are aware of everything, they can even watch us traveling into Central London on the transport network surveillance cameras, I wouldn’t be surprised if they have Chinese levels of surveillance in London already, many of the cameras will undoubtably be facial recognition technology ready.

The police reaction depends on what they think they can get away with and instructions from City Hall / Downing Street.

193889 ▶▶▶▶▶ dommo, replying to Darryl, 3, #902 of 1373 🔗

i think central london protests and especially trafalgar square are a dead end. you’re on “their” home turf and “they” do crowd control for a living – we don’t. any physical protest needs to be kept mobile & fluid and not capable of being coral-ed. the most effective physical protest is if every person in every town every day defies the ludicrous rules – they would then become instantly unenforceable…

193906 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to dommo, 3, #903 of 1373 🔗

Mass disobedience of petty rules will be the only way to end the tyranny, hence the constant enforcement of the establishment narrative in the media. The social engineers working in SAGE will undoubtably be using data from social media to gauge how far they can push the public and the best way to manipulate minds. Social media is yet another control mechanism.

The Establishment knows full well that they only have to put up with protestors for a few hours and then they will go home. I still believe it is good to show token resistance with physical demonstrations.

193910 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to dommo, 1, #904 of 1373 🔗

“if every person in every town every day defies the ludicrous rules”

Unfortunately, that’s not going to happen. I wish it would. These protests are the only visible way of opposing the government, and from what I’ve observed, are growing in number.
The Met Police are a menace and under the control of Sadiq Khan, and therefore going to be used as a political weapon upon those Khan doesn’t approve of.

193915 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ dommo, replying to Lms23, #905 of 1373 🔗

maybe if you wish hard enough…

193903 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Darryl, 2, #906 of 1373 🔗

“wouldn’t be surprised if they have Chinese levels of surveillance in London”

Which is probably the one good reason for wearing a mask.

193921 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Lms23, 2, #907 of 1373 🔗

If we leave our smart phones on we know we can be tracked regardless of mask wearing. Hat, face covering and phone switched off are our only chance of any anonymity. And who wants to live like that.

194374 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Pen, replying to Darryl, #908 of 1373 🔗

Better that than live like the oppressed peoples of China.

193886 ▶▶▶ dommo, replying to Darryl, 1, #909 of 1373 🔗

they definitely weren’t turned off on 26/09 – i kept moving to get away from the wind-blown spray

194006 ▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to dommo, #910 of 1373 🔗

They were off when I got there, they magically got turned on around 12:30pm.

193901 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Darryl, 1, #911 of 1373 🔗

I assume you mean Devil’s lair, but Devil’s lair works just as well.

193914 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Lms23, 2, #912 of 1373 🔗

Yes, must read comments before posting, the liar word is also quite fitting for Downing Street.

193789 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 27, #913 of 1373 🔗

Returning home through a small village on the Worcestershire/Shropshire border right out in the countryside I saw a big “strapping” teenage lad built like the proverbial “outside toilet block” sweeping up the carpark to a small convenience store in the middle of the fields and woodland wearing a BLOODY mask.
I don’t think there was a fellow human being within 20 yards of him.

193815 ▶▶ dommo, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #914 of 1373 🔗

maybe he’s allergic to carpark dust?

193845 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to dommo, #915 of 1373 🔗


193833 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Fingerache Philip., 7, #916 of 1373 🔗

Big rugby lads aren’t generally the brightest bulbs in the Christmas tree.

193920 ▶▶ Marialta, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #917 of 1373 🔗

A few days ago on here someone on here observed that the mask is used as a talisman. That stuck in my head, so now when I don’t want feel as angry as you I try to think it’s being used like an object with magic powers warding off the evil virus- not as something scientific 🙂

193946 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Marialta, 1, #918 of 1373 🔗

I agree. I think of them as “magic masks”. They obviously have no medical value, but people seem to think of them as lucky charms. Couldn’t possibly get the virus if I wear this thing. Right.

194032 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to ConstantBees, #919 of 1373 🔗

A curate’s egg??!!

193942 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #920 of 1373 🔗

I saw a guy today with a black leather jacket and a mask. Big, tough guy, yeah. At least I had a quiet laugh. Did see more unmasked people on the bus than I have before, but more masks out on the street.

194042 ▶▶ annie, replying to Fingerache Philip., #921 of 1373 🔗

i Just kept it on from the shop, I guess. Even the tiniest, remotest shop is supposed to uphold Maskageddon.

194103 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to annie, #922 of 1373 🔗

Sunday is the only day I buy a newspaper (Sunday Telegraph). My local newsagent is a big friendly chap but a bit of a covid-fearer, usually masked and behind a plastic screen (I suppose some of that is legally required). When compulsory masks were about to come in I mentioned that they caused me anxiety and I wouldn’t be wearing one. No problem as yet, but he now has prominent new signs saying face coverings must be worn, no mention of exemptions. So I was a bit concerned about what might happen this morning, but again no problem. There is a school nearby and there’s another sign saying no more than 4 pupils in the shop at a time, so I guess his signs are aimed at the pupils, who are mostly unmasked (good!) when I see them out and about during the week.

194077 ▶▶ CapLlam, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #923 of 1373 🔗

I saw a woman out walking her dog earlier with a mask on, there was no one else around and I was on the opposite side of the road walking in the other direction

193792 helen, replying to helen, 4, #924 of 1373 🔗



Belt and Road Initiative (BRI)

  • makes a unique contribution to international cooperation and economic development
  • it is based on the stakeholder approach
  • it seeks to leverage market forces in best ways
  • it prepares best for the age of the Fourth Industrial Revolution
  • it is built on the open platform concept, and most importantly
  • this initiative is the positive narrative the world needs

Klaus Schwab
Founder and Executive Chairman, World Economic Forum

What is the BRI potential?

Today, the BRI might have the potential to prompt a profound shift in the global order towards a new multilateralism. The strategic planning and delivery of scalable infrastructure for power generation, transport, water and telecommunications will bring the much-needed economic and societal connectivity to all the countries along this new network. With this proposal, China is willing to share its immense financial and industrial resources and capabilities as well as its own experience of four decades of reform and opening-up, and, at the same time, secure its own long-term development.

193899 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to helen, 5, #925 of 1373 🔗

I’ve been watching a long video all about Klaus Schwab, and have concluded that he’s very dangerous and deluded.
He has an unachievable (I sincerely hope) Utopian vision for humanity, that will result, just as with fascism and communism has, in untold misery for the majority of the population. The road to hell and all that.
What they want to achieve with this Green revolution, global reset, etc, won’t happen, but they’re going to cause an awful lot of damage trying, as with the UK economy whilst trying to stop a virus.

193926 ▶▶▶ helen, replying to Lms23, 1, #926 of 1373 🔗

I agree with everything you write here.
I have been investigating the BRI and find that China is already financing UK offshore developments. Have many BRI contracts in Italy and Bavaria (Markus Söder Land) and Victoria (Andrews Land) are standing against sanctions against China. The UK must need someone to support projects in the peripheral areas Sturgen Land and SW since Brexit.

193937 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Lms23, 3, #927 of 1373 🔗

I agree he is a very dangerous individual and clearly has massive influence on the worlds governments and possibly more importantly multinational businesses via the World Economic Forum.

I believe they are going to sell this elitist agenda as being about providing a green future for the younger generation and how we owe it to them for the ‘sacrifices’ they have made during the ‘pandemic’. People like Klaus Schwab won’t care about the pain and suffering of those hundreds of millions who will be left jobless and in poverty on the way to achieving his globalist utopia.

At least he is 81 so might not make it to see the end of his project.

194054 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Darryl, 1, #928 of 1373 🔗

Or even the beginning of it. Mind you, he does look like he’s already plugged into the mains, so perhaps he’ll end up like Dav(r)os.

Sorry, couldn’t resist. I’ll get my jacket.

194142 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Darryl, #929 of 1373 🔗

Adrenochrome might keep him around longer..

194150 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to helen, 1, #930 of 1373 🔗

Worries me that 2 other countries that are part of the 5 eyes programme, NZ and Australia, are now controlled by China, and with Biden possibly America as well. Boris wanted Huawei involved with 5G…
How many British MPs are on the boards of Chinese companies and are being bribed to enslave the UK?

Which country unleashed the coronavirus on the world again?!

193793 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 7, #931 of 1373 🔗
193834 ▶▶ RickH, replying to arfurmo, 4, #932 of 1373 🔗

How about another possible headline :

” Relax. Deaths from/with Covid only 6% of April maximum” …..?

193795 Smileits1984, replying to Smileits1984, 26, #933 of 1373 🔗

“If policy keeps intervening at the first sight of rising cases then we will never learn if any given intervention has worked”
Prof Carl Heneghan inadvertently hits the nail on the head as to why government seems obsessed with unproven lockdowns

193800 ▶▶ matt, replying to Smileits1984, 3, #934 of 1373 🔗

I don’t think it’s inadvertent at all

193826 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to matt, #935 of 1373 🔗

After this time, it certainly stretched credibility beyond reason

193827 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to RickH, 1, #936 of 1373 🔗

No, I mean I don’t think Heghan hit the nail inadvertently

193802 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Smileits1984, #937 of 1373 🔗

They’ll just say “but precautionary principle, but downside risk”. Never mind that these are better arguments AGAINST interventions.

193801 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 13, #938 of 1373 🔗


“Government officials and health “experts” tout masks for ONE reason: it absolves them of having to answer for their deadly lockdown policies. They can blame the public and the public can in turn blame their neighbor.”

193842 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to swedenborg, 10, #939 of 1373 🔗

(Available to download in full as a pdf file)
Masks, false safety and real dangers, Part 2: Microbial challenges from masks
“Face masks have come into common use in many countries since mid-2020, for all age groups. Some aspect of this may be voluntary, but certainly much of this use is either accompanied by force, threats, subtle coercion, or a continuum of subtle to fierce societal pressures on the individual to conform to mask-wearing.
In this paper, the second in our series, we continue our examination of the potential hazards of masks, in which we now turn attention to microbial contamination from masks and mask use, changes in oral and nasal microbiota, and potential risks to the lungs and other organ systems from microbial factors. Because widespread masking is a very new society-wide experiment, the impact of this experiment, the obstruction of airways from free breathing and a typical air exchange interplay with oral microbiota is not yet known. Furthermore, the effects of such changes in the lungs and beyond are not yet known.”

It goes on to say that masks have been shown through overwhelming clinical evidence to have no effect against transmission of viral pathogens. Penetration of cloth masks by viral particles was almost 97% and of surgical masks by 44%. Even bacteria can penetrate through and multiply on masks, which become useless after two hours of continuous wearing, and after 150 minutes, more bacteria are emitted through the mask than without a mask.

193814 Voz 0db, replying to Voz 0db, 11, #940 of 1373 🔗

Cancer?!?! What’s that?

Who cares about a minor problem like “cancer” when we are being killed by the millions due to RNA “SARS-CoV-2”? Only morons do…

193819 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Voz 0db, 4, #941 of 1373 🔗

This exact same thing occurred to me earlier, I’d rather run the risk of getting the flu so people can have vital treatment

193857 ▶▶ alittleparty, replying to Voz 0db, 3, #942 of 1373 🔗


Cancer? Come on. Rona is the new babe

193824 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 15, #943 of 1373 🔗


“So New York had the most covid deaths, and the most socially and economically destructive lockdowns, and the biggest increase in non-covid deaths driven by lockdowns. Other than that, it’s been a huge success”

193830 ▶▶ DRW, replying to swedenborg, 1, #944 of 1373 🔗

So successful they’re now doing them locally!

193843 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to DRW, 4, #945 of 1373 🔗

The Orthodox Jewish community is being deliberately targeted with restrictions, and they are doing a good job standing up to the Cuomo / de Blasio dictatorship.

193855 ▶▶▶▶ alittleparty, replying to Darryl, 2, #946 of 1373 🔗

Sad to say but they have the prior experience

193911 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to alittleparty, #947 of 1373 🔗

Yet Trump is supposed to be Literally Hitler.

193837 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to swedenborg, 2, #948 of 1373 🔗

Andrew Cuomo clearly thinks he is doing a great job. He has just brought out a new book about his great leadership skills. Surprised he found time to write it whilst New York is falling apart.

193838 Ceriain, replying to Ceriain, 2, #949 of 1373 🔗

Scotland: https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-daily-data-for-scotland/

We were notified late last week of a testing capacity issue with the UK Government Lighthouse facility in Glasgow.

This has meant around 64,000 tests from across the UK, including Scotland, will be rerouted this weekend (Fri-Sun) to other testing sites in the UK and Northern Ireland, including tests from our physical testing sites, for example Regional Tests sites.

It is important to note that the majority of these tests are still well within the 24 and 48 hour timeframe for results albeit we do expect to see an increase in the level of positives on Monday and Tuesday when the results are reported.

The Scottish Government is urgently trying to establish with the UK Government what exactly is causing the delay in testing but this is mainly due to demand from out with Scotland.

We continue to reroute routine testing of care home staff through NHS
Scotland testing facilities to ensure prompt turnaround times.

More T&T cock-ups.

193854 ▶▶ AnotherSceptic, replying to Ceriain, 4, #950 of 1373 🔗

Nicola will announce 100,000 deaths just this weekend at her daily speech tomorrow then.

193879 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to AnotherSceptic, 1, #951 of 1373 🔗

Username checks out. 😉

194005 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Ceriain, 1, #952 of 1373 🔗

T&T IS a cock-up – it serves no useful purpose, and many evil purposes

194040 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Julian, 2, #953 of 1373 🔗

And even the most perfectly functioning T&T system imaginable, still wouldn’t work.

193844 NickR, replying to NickR, 18, #954 of 1373 🔗

I think Boris will be perfectly happy to see Andy Burnham & the other Northern Mayors resist further lockdown for a couple of weeks. If positive tests rise & deaths follow he can blame the Mayors for throwing ‘their people’ under the bus, if positive tests drop (which it looks like they are doing), hospitalisations & deaths tick down then he can blame Sage.
He may just have found the perfect fence to sit on for a week or so to see what happens.
If, as I suspect tests plateau then it could be the end of Sage & the GBD boys & girls get ushered in.

193851 ▶▶ merlin, replying to NickR, 4, #955 of 1373 🔗

Sunak could be thinking this way, johnson has been folding at the earliest opportunity , we will see soon enough

193852 ▶▶ AnotherSceptic, replying to NickR, 2, #956 of 1373 🔗

Indeed. but, as we all know on here…it’s cases now, not deaths.
Again though, these figures will be wrong & messed about with before being released, to make it look like they are actually increasing.

193862 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to NickR, 1, #957 of 1373 🔗

Even the BBC this evening has stated that cases are no longer rising in Manchester

193866 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to NickR, 1, #958 of 1373 🔗

I wish I could share your optimism.

193869 ▶▶ matt, replying to NickR, 2, #959 of 1373 🔗

I do think this is the plan. I also think that caving to Khan on the London lockdown was at least as much a political counter to complaints that the north was being treated unfairly as it was anything else.

We’ll see.

193916 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to matt, 1, #960 of 1373 🔗

It was a free pass.Khan gets the blame for destroying what was left of London’s economy instead of just being complicit

193979 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to NickR, #961 of 1373 🔗

If positive tests continue to drop they will just say that Tier 2 works… “It just takes time” etc etc.

194001 ▶▶ Julian, replying to NickR, 3, #962 of 1373 🔗

Never happen

If he wanted to sideline SAGE he could have done it ages ago

The PM and Hancock have burnt their bridges – they are in this shit or bust

193849 Linda B, replying to Linda B, 4, #963 of 1373 🔗

I think of our Ex PM TB as a rather vile – breaking quarantine is quite low on the list of his wrong doings

194099 ▶▶ Iansn, replying to Linda B, #964 of 1373 🔗

TB. The lower than a snakes belly war criminal lying SOB. When will he be arrested and taken to the Hague for trial

193853 swedenborg, 9, #965 of 1373 🔗

The rapidly changing views of Tom Frieden former CDC Director,now embedded in Project Fear.He is very influential in the US


15th March
“C-19 is NOT the Zombie Apocalypse. Far too many people will become severely ill, and, tragically, too many will die. We must learn more fast, protect the vulnerable, preserve health care, protect society & economy to the greatest extent possible. This, too, will pass.

17 th Oct an attack on GBD(endorsement of JonSnow Manifest)


“The idea of protecting the vulnerable without controlling the spread of Covid is a delusion. It’s a foolish idea, not scientifically supported, and would result in millions of preventable deaths globally.

I think this contra argument is brilliant

“The idea of protecting the entire population from spread of COVID, when you believe it’s impossible to protect a subset of the population, is an incoherent delusion. It’s a foolish idea, not scientifically supported, & would result in millions of preventable deaths globally.


193877 dommo, replying to dommo, 20, #966 of 1373 🔗


Hands up who thinks that nearly all current MPs have actually committed political suicide over this whole fiasco? Surely no-one in their right mind will vote for them ever again? Surely some politicians are actually going to have to emigrate to ensure their own safety?

193880 ▶▶ IanE, replying to dommo, 7, #967 of 1373 🔗

Well, yes – but only if we ever get some meaningful opposition to the establishment status quo.

193896 ▶▶▶ dommo, replying to IanE, #968 of 1373 🔗

i wonder what would happen if they held an election but no-one voted?

193924 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to dommo, #969 of 1373 🔗

This is a viable option, spoil your ballot

194019 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Two-Six, #970 of 1373 🔗

An option but not a viable one, and anyway, your next chance will be in May 2021 at the local elections. There, about 2/3 of seats should be up for grabs, as this year’s elections for about 1/3 of seats were postponed for a year. Usually, there’s a miserably low turnout, plus, many independent candidates. So it can happen even in normal times that an organised local opposition, usually about some major planning decision like numbers of new houses in a particular location, or a spending decisoin like wanting to borrow a mega sum to build new council offices, is able to get enough seats to hold the balance of power.
Think about it: if a local group opposed to the endless lockdown seesaw put up a few candidates and got on social media now, got out leafleting, maybe the Lib Dems who voted en masse against renewing the Coronavirus Act might by then also commit to it – you could win a working majority in places. Then run a ruthless campaign for the end of social distancing, repeal of all the mad T&T stuff in bars and restaurants – government could have a sizeable local revolt on its hands in no time.
But you’d need to start now, there is a lot of education to be done.

194112 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Sylvie, 2, #971 of 1373 🔗

That’s if we’ll ever vote again.

194131 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sylvie, #972 of 1373 🔗

Seriously, I wonder if they will not merely delay the elections further.. likely only requires another SI (sigh…)

Does that latest ‘immunity from crimes’ law prevent them from being prosecution if they did that?

The USA and NZ have not cancelled their elections, so why have the UK done so?

194222 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Carrie, #973 of 1373 🔗

The local municipal elections should have been held early in May, when everyone was still spooked about mingling in polling stations, campaigning, doorstepping, leafleting etc in person. Now, even though Labour isn’t opposing lockdowns, I think it would kick up a stink if elections are delayed again. And there’s no prejudice against postal voting here, it works well. So I expect to see local elections go ahead in May 2021, there’s no excuse for not doing so. Which opens up a great opportunity for local activists, because as I say, the turnout is usually less than 1/3 of the electorate and a focused local campaign can be very effective.

194007 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to dommo, 2, #974 of 1373 🔗

I’m not sure, but I think it was Peter Hitchens who suggested that at the top of the ballot there should be a “none of the below” option. I suspect it would garner a fair few votes, and really should be there as a protest option. There’s really no way to vote to reflect disgust with all the parties.

194024 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 2, #975 of 1373 🔗

I use a black marker pen to put a dot in the middle of each box and write “no suitable candidate” on the top of the ballot paper. It’s a spoiled vote and they have to count and declare them.

194129 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #976 of 1373 🔗

I wrote IDIOTS on mine last time 6 candidates worked well. It’s gonna be C&*^s next time

194233 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Two-Six, #977 of 1373 🔗

People do this, nobody cares, and it’s a total waste of your time.

194230 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Nick Rose, #978 of 1373 🔗

And then they’re ignored. Abstention only carries any kind of powerful message in a totalitarian, one party state.
Get on the ballot paper as the Anti Lockdown candidate, and you could find yourself with your best chance of winning a seat and influencing the turn of events ever.

193917 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to IanE, 2, #979 of 1373 🔗

Or if we are allowed to vote again

193918 ▶▶▶▶ dommo, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #980 of 1373 🔗

excellent point!

194242 ▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #981 of 1373 🔗

There’s no excuse for not holding them in UK as people have confidence in postal voting, and I can’t see any major party defending a further postponement.

193883 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to dommo, 6, #982 of 1373 🔗

I’d love to think so, but no; New Zealand proves this.

193891 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Ceriain, 14, #983 of 1373 🔗

The New Zealand have in effect given the ‘Toothy Tyrant’ the green light for the full Great Reset agenda of mandatory Covid vaccinations, digital health passports and digital currencies. Feel sorry for the few who tried to resist the agenda – looks like the country is lost already.

194014 ▶▶▶▶ deldor, replying to Darryl, 1, #984 of 1373 🔗

Sadly I think this is true.
I have family in NZ but can’t frankly ever see myself visiting them again with the prevailing political lunacy from the TT .
Deeply sad.

194136 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Darryl, #985 of 1373 🔗

NZ have pretty much sold out to China as well – as have Australia with the Belt and Road stuff.

Worries me especially with Boris talking about an Australia style trade deal.. Also remember that he wanted Huawei to be involved in 5G – Chinese influence again..

193894 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to dommo, 1, #986 of 1373 🔗

I can see only three exits:

1) They admit their mistakes/crimes, or they become generally known, leading to them being removed. If our politicians cared for the county and people this is what they would do.

2) They manage to find away to fool enough people into thinking that they saved us. I.e. an appropriately timed useless intervention which coincides with the PCR cycles being reduced.

3) Authoritarianism and persecution (of free-thinkers – us).

Option 1 is my preferred outcome but it is very risky because it may lead to 3. Option 3 means we are off to the gulag. Option 2 seems the least damaging course of action. However, people like us will want them to pay for their crimes, which makes it dangerous for them anyway. Unfortunately, the safest option for them is 3, which means either we act or we are totally fucked.

193904 ▶▶▶ dommo, replying to TheBluePill, #987 of 1373 🔗

Option 2 is of course in any sane world the basis for one of the biggest political scandals in modern history – just goes to show how far we’ve fallen that it would be the “least damaging”!!! to paraphrase Orwell, “we are the totally fucked”!

193909 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to dommo, 3, #988 of 1373 🔗

Arguably most of the people in the country are not in their right mind

193954 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to dommo, 1, #989 of 1373 🔗

They are too busy sitting on their fat arse at home to know what’s going on

193997 ▶▶ Julian, replying to dommo, 2, #990 of 1373 🔗

That’s rather optimistic IMO

Hopefully by the time of the next election, MANY people will indeed punish them and favour sceptical candidates, but MANY others will either be happy with what they did or have forgotten and forgiven and vote on other issue along party loyalty.

I know anti lockdown people who still defend Johnson because they like him or hate the alternatives or because of Brexit. They make me cross

194022 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Julian, 1, #991 of 1373 🔗

Me too.

194009 ▶▶ Iansn, replying to dommo, 3, #992 of 1373 🔗

wrote mine.
Mr Whitley
I read with horror today the story of a Wirral Gym owner being visited by the police to shut his gym down. These officers were there enforcing Health regulations. How often do restaurants get visited by police to enforce these regulations, it is not a criminal matter, they should be enforced after notification by Environmental health officers not Police officers fully tooled up to deal with serious crime. This is a total abuse of power by who ever authorised this and Merseyside police. You should be in touch with the Chief Constable for a complete explanation including who authorised this and why it was not passed to environmental health for enforcement as it is their primary responsibility under the health regulations, and why 7-8 tooled up officers were sent for enforcement of health regulations. What next, armed checkpoints on the border with Wales, because form the papers that were its going.
When was the last time any Birkenhead restaurant was ever visited by Police to enforce noncompliance with Health regulations, these are not laws and police should not be involved in any enforcement of Health regulations. Furthermore, asking neighbours to inform is not a policy that wears well in this region, it will lead to violence and hard to heal wounds in communities. What the government are asking is more communist east Germany than Wirral.
What are you doing in your role as my MP ensure that abuses of power are not being undertaken and why are you not active in pursuing the government over their total abuse of parliament and the people.
Where are you on any of these issues and what have you been doing for your constituents over the past 7 months to ensure that we are not subjected to the tyranny of this administration. Where are you and where has you voice been heard over the imposition on the Wirral of the tier 3 restrictions imposed in Liverpool via the Metro district. Totally absent as far as I can see.
It seems to me that you are perfectly content to ignore all of the abuses imposed on your constituents and you have been totally absent on any of the local and national issues during these unprecedented times. Your salary is safe until the next election, mine is not due to the current restrictions. When election time comes things will be different, for you and the local council.
You need to get up and start to make some impact on the things that are having a very serious impact on the community you represent.
Yours sincerely

193884 mjr, replying to mjr, 2, #993 of 1373 🔗

C4 18.00 a “debate” on covid, with Kristen Guru Murphy
After 10 minutes which included expert 1 – an epidemiologist from Imperial called Riley….and then expert 2 – that awful Sridar woman, i have given up as this is not an impartial debate.
It is purely do we lock down again indefinitely or do we just have a circuit break
couple of anti lockdown members of public and a teacher (who cannot even control her own child on tv) worth watching 15 minutes in as it shows how pathetic most teachers are.

193892 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to mjr, 4, #994 of 1373 🔗

Me too. A carefully curated ‘debate’ over the severity of the next lockdown. It literally makes it hard to breathe, this violent suppression of critique.

193902 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Alethea, #995 of 1373 🔗

interestingly it is followed by “The Greatest Showman”.. Boris again?

193913 ▶▶ John P, replying to mjr, #996 of 1373 🔗

In the interests of accuracy and at the risk of causing offence to “mjr”, I think that should be “Krishnan Guru-Murthy”. (He’s not an Irishman!)

193948 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to John P, #997 of 1373 🔗

no but he is a potato head .

193951 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to mjr, 4, #998 of 1373 🔗

Guru Murphy another shill, ignore him

193973 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to mjr, 1, #999 of 1373 🔗

People need to realise that a circuit break is another indefinite national lockdown.

194060 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to mjr, 2, #1000 of 1373 🔗

Exercise in framing. This happens all the time. No question that lockdown is needed, just who gets laid off first really.

193887 Stoic, replying to Stoic, #1001 of 1373 🔗

i have just looked at the government’s COVID dashboard: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/
Can anybody explain why the number of deaths for 18 October is recorded as 67 whilst the associated graph shows the number to be well over 100?

193934 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Stoic, 1, #1002 of 1373 🔗

The graph on this page https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/deaths shows 67 deaths. Not sure about the one on the page you link to.

193893 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 5, #1003 of 1373 🔗

All politicians and ex politicians need bodyguards, do they ever think why?

193907 ▶▶ dommo, replying to Dan Clarke, 5, #1004 of 1373 🔗

forget bodyguards – some are going to need to emigrate by the time this is all over….

193930 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to dommo, 1, #1005 of 1373 🔗

They were all heading for South America at one time.

194004 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to dommo, #1006 of 1373 🔗

We need an Historical Documentation Centre. They can run all they like.

193905 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 3, #1007 of 1373 🔗

‘Weighs heavily’ my arse

They are loving every second of it

Mr Gething’s hand’s are drenched in blood

He can often be seen walking around his home town of Penarth laughing and joking and without a care in the world

No sign of any heart, let alone a heavy one


193967 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Cecil B, 3, #1008 of 1373 🔗

Same for Wancock, he bangs on about his heavy heart whilst bouncing around the place smirking and enjoying a wine or two in the House of Commons of a night.

193984 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1009 of 1373 🔗

Yeah, ever get the feeling you’ve been had

193996 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cecil B, 6, #1010 of 1373 🔗

They can have all the lockdowns in place they want. I won’t be playing along. It’s game over as far as I’m concerned. I don’t often swear here, but fuck them.

194034 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #1011 of 1373 🔗

Agreed. I will not comply.

193923 Eddy, replying to Eddy, #1012 of 1373 🔗

What are your political leanings? surely we are not all “extreme far right” on here are we?

193928 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Eddy, 5, #1013 of 1373 🔗

from all parts of the spectrum ..

193929 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Eddy, 10, #1014 of 1373 🔗

No, there’s plenty of lefties on here. I’m a refugee from the Guardian myself. Can’t read it without screaming out loud these days.

193936 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Eddy, 6, #1015 of 1373 🔗

I don’t think I’ve came across anyone on here that is extreme far right, nor have I came across the radical left. There is a broad view of opinion.

193943 ▶▶ dommo, replying to Eddy, 1, #1016 of 1373 🔗

if we were we’d be cheering for the great reset wouldn’t we? can’t actually see how that’s anything but as extreme far right as you can get..or does it go so far right that it joins up at the far left? (like eddie izzard’s “circle of cool”)

193991 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to dommo, 5, #1017 of 1373 🔗

The “Great Reset” is allegedly Green, but strikes me as repacked authoritarian Fascism and Communism 1930’s style. Certainly weird, the instigator is probably certifiable, and if it was ever put into practice guaranteed doomed to catastrophic failure.

193995 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1018 of 1373 🔗

I think you’re quite right. The “green” packaging will make it more palatable to the masses, and they won’t know what hit them.

193961 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Eddy, 5, #1019 of 1373 🔗

Centre left/liberal here, before all this at least. Literally no idea what I might be called now.

193971 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Eddy, 4, #1020 of 1373 🔗

Centre Right, with Leftist tendencies towards social justice and elimination of poverty (worldwide, not just UK). Not always in accord with either Right or Left how to achieve certain goals.

193990 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Eddy, 4, #1021 of 1373 🔗

Think it’s a mixture. We argue about politics sometimes, which is fine though best kept to a minimum to stay united

Personally I have voted for all the major parties and some minor ones. These days, a small-c conservative – God knows what party that would align me with. None of them. I quite like the SDP other than they are a bit socialist, but I could live with that up to a point.

193992 ▶▶ Schrodinger, replying to Eddy, 3, #1022 of 1373 🔗

Fairly left leaning, atheist, anti monarchy, anti military – so probably not in my natural habitat.

193994 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Eddy, 4, #1023 of 1373 🔗

I’ve always felt politically homeless as an atheist — I’m left on social issues (as in keep the government out of my bedroom and off my body) but centre right on economics. Since Covid, my only concern has become civil liberties and so I’m more in the libertarian camp now. So still politically homeless!

194002 ▶▶▶ Telpin, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #1024 of 1373 🔗

I feel exactly the same!

194073 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #1025 of 1373 🔗

I like your style Lisa. May your home be your castle, in the words of Pitt the Elder.

194145 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to DRW, 1, #1026 of 1373 🔗

I just found out there’s a new party being formed in our province, the New Blue party. Husband and wife who are former conservatives, and I believe they are against the government’s Covid response. I hate not voting, so even if it’s for a new party that won’t win I would still rather vote than sit out. Unfortunately, public sentiment is still with the politicians but perhaps it will change as the depth of the economic fallout begins to be felt.

193999 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to Eddy, 7, #1027 of 1373 🔗

I think there is a range of political colours ( as there is amongst my sceptic friends) and long may that continue. As others have said, we need to unite behind a cause and the preservation of values far far wider that narrow political lines- humanity, compassion, the restoration of rational and accountable government, civil liberties / human rights and the preservation of our society, arts and economy. Personally, I’m not interested in people’s politics.

194028 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Eddy, 3, #1028 of 1373 🔗

I’m what would be recognized traditionally as ‘left’ of centre – which will surprise few.

But that location raises a welter of subsidiary issues that aren’t amenable to knee-jerk typification.

I think that simplistic one-dimensional political definitions have been blown out of the water by Brexit and Covid, and I get particularly impatient with bone-headed attempts to try to tie these issues into the old boxes.

As I’ve frequently said, banging on about the old political hobby-horses in the same old way is really dim in the current situation that we are facing as the totalitarian state emerges.

194175 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to RickH, 1, #1029 of 1373 🔗

I agree this whole crisis has reconfigured the political landscape .All other issues are secondary to regaining our freedom

194037 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Eddy, 1, #1030 of 1373 🔗

All political persuasions here

194041 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Eddy, 3, #1031 of 1373 🔗

This virus hoo-haa has overturned all the previous left/right stuff, even people less sceptical than me are saying how it is strange that they are now reading Spectator articles and listening to people (even President Trump) that they would not previously given house room.

194149 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #1032 of 1373 🔗

So true! I cancelled my Washington Post subscription and replaced it with The Spectator. My NYT subscription will run out this month and I will re-up only for the crossword and puzzles.

194067 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Eddy, 6, #1033 of 1373 🔗

I consider myself an open-minded, pragmatic civic libertarian. The best person to decide your life is you. In my view, the old Left-Right divide is now secondary to Liberty-Authority. We’re not on here for each other’s politics, but there is a vast range of opinion represented here.

194071 ▶▶▶ Eddy, replying to DRW, 2, #1034 of 1373 🔗

Totally agree.

194098 ▶▶ Francis, replying to Eddy, 1, #1035 of 1373 🔗

Labour/Corbyn supporter. Always thought that was a sign of rational evidence-based thinking. Sadly, seemingly not…

194307 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to Eddy, 1, #1036 of 1373 🔗

In normal life I’m a Labour-voting social-justice feminist. Nowadays I’m a member of the resistance and an ethical anarchist. I’ve gone the full Antigone.

194322 ▶▶ stevie119, replying to Eddy, 1, #1037 of 1373 🔗

I am a proper right wing horrible old bastard with no children. Saying that some of the terrible stories I read on here almost move me to tears. Maybe I`m not so horrible.

194389 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to stevie119, #1038 of 1373 🔗

If you’re here, you’re by definition not horrible! We are actually the unselfish ones who are able to see the whole picture and trying to preserve civil liberties — even for people who don’t seem to care about them.

193925 Al T, replying to Al T, 5, #1039 of 1373 🔗

Another scientist from bloody SAGE a Professor Farrer, tolling the bell and warning that we’re in for a miserable Christmas because Darkness and Decay and the Red Death holds illimitable dominion over all.

Why are these people able to brief the all too compliant press? Are they not supposed to be advisors to the Govt, whose advice should be heard and weighed by ministers?

193935 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Al T, 2, #1040 of 1373 🔗

I’m going to write to my MP saying get the science wonks under control. She usually ignores me but the wonks are undermining the backbenchers so she might listen.

193947 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to thinkaboutit, 1, #1041 of 1373 🔗

The MP’s seem to have gone Dark on their constituents, wonder what they know?

193988 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to thinkaboutit, 1, #1042 of 1373 🔗

My MP is a backbencher but gives every impression of wanting a minsterial job, so she has been 100% on message all the way

194021 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 1, #1043 of 1373 🔗

Yes – the current incentives are towards being a first-class brown-noser, rather than a great politician.

What might turn that round?

193941 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Al T, 2, #1044 of 1373 🔗

Add him to the list

193956 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Al T, #1045 of 1373 🔗

He’s been doing similar throughout, along with Edmunds and Michie and all that miserable lot.

193958 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Al T, #1046 of 1373 🔗

They’re just Doctor Frankensteins who think we exist for them to experiment on. SAGE is part of the problem and anything but the solution.

193927 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, #1047 of 1373 🔗

Anyone know what the media angle is for masks? Twitter has removed a tweet from one of Trumps team saying that masks don’t work. Why is it an issue for Twitter?

193931 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Dan Clarke, 7, #1048 of 1373 🔗

Because Jack Dorsey hates Trump .

193989 ▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to thinkaboutit, 5, #1049 of 1373 🔗

He’s another one for the cunt list it’s growing by the day.

194164 ▶▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to JHuntz, #1050 of 1373 🔗

Oh come on, cunts are useful.

194124 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to thinkaboutit, 1, #1051 of 1373 🔗

Jack has been subpoenaed now to explain himself.. https://twitter.com/SenTedCruz/status/1316783362837708800

194163 ▶▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Carrie, 1, #1052 of 1373 🔗

I hope that is broadcast, I’d love to see it.

194168 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to thinkaboutit, 1, #1053 of 1373 🔗

I hope so too! I don’t have Twitter myself but am reading and following a lot of people there who post interesting links and clips!

They will soon be trying to suppress another story that as yet has not been widely picked up by the media, of Biden seeing to it that Seal team 6 were killed in order to cover up the fact that they had *not* killed Bin Laden but his double (the real Bin Laden having been smuggled out beforehand)..

193932 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #1054 of 1373 🔗

because twitter, youtube (and google that owns them) and facebook are all politicised and like the MSM here are determining what is acceptable and what is not according to their own view.
So anything overtly covid sceptic is being taken down, or hidden, or shadowed by them. Similarly they seem to be anti Trump

193944 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to mjr, #1055 of 1373 🔗

So nothing to do with muzzles then.

193986 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Dan Clarke, #1056 of 1373 🔗

Indeed nothing

Politics, culture wars

194268 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #1057 of 1373 🔗

as i said … anything overtly covid sceptic ….. i think that includes saying muzzles dont work

194012 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to mjr, 1, #1058 of 1373 🔗

Buying off regulation?

194125 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to mjr, 1, #1059 of 1373 🔗

In other words they are interfering with and attempting to influence the outcome of the election..

193955 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #1060 of 1373 🔗

I’m guessing the answer to this is no, but…

…is there any official government line on why London and the South East have suffered so much less in the Autumn “second wave”? The “science” doesn’t believe in immunity, therefore that can’t be the reason, officially at least. So why else would London not be more or less in line with the big Northern cities? It has multiple universities so it’s full of students (and I haven’t heard anything about thousands of London students testing positive either), it’s only had the standard national restrictions all summer unlike many parts of the North, and they can’t possibly spout any Swedish-style guff about southerners being more obedient and following the rules more strictly than the unruly northerners, or the population being less dense.

So why? What do they think is happening? If they think anything much at all, of course.

193960 ▶▶ dommo, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #1061 of 1373 🔗

more to the point – why the hell have london and essex been put in tier 2???

193962 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to dommo, 3, #1062 of 1373 🔗

Because the leaders asked for it

193963 ▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to dommo, #1063 of 1373 🔗

I saw somewhere that the local bureaucrats there asked them to be!

193964 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to dommo, 1, #1064 of 1373 🔗

Because Khan, for London at least. Not sure about Essex. Some think it’s to stop the North from feeling picked on…

193974 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #1065 of 1373 🔗

Essex leader asked for it too

194029 ▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #1066 of 1373 🔗

Thought that was probably the case.

193970 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to dommo, 3, #1067 of 1373 🔗


194130 ▶▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to stefarm, 1, #1068 of 1373 🔗

Many LAs are incredibly strapped for cash so may see this as one way of sustaining heavy costs for bureaucrats organising the local response.

193968 ▶▶ matt, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1069 of 1373 🔗

Part of Khan’s complaint is that a lot of testing capacity has been moved out of London. One of the reasons he wanted to move to tier 2 was that londoners haven’t been adequately tested and so nobody knows what’s really going on (go figure). Also bear in mind that, although London probably has the largest total student population of any city in the country, it’s still absolutely dwarfed by the native population, so their testing will have no impact.

There is no official line, because there’s no acknowledgement of the situation.

So, better lock us down again anyway.

193993 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to matt, 5, #1070 of 1373 🔗

One of the reasons he want to move to tier 2 was that londoners haven’t been adequately tested and so nobody knows what’s really going on (go figure).

Problem with his argument is that the death figures don’t relect the crisis he claims London is going through. Last time there were double digit deaths in London was 10 on 26th of May and since that date there have been 47 days with zero deaths.

Khan’s making his crisis up!

194025 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Ceriain, 8, #1071 of 1373 🔗

Yep. Yes he is. Khan is just about the most unpleasant, untrustworthy politician around at the moment and, my goodness he’s chosen a tough time to go for the title.

194086 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to matt, 1, #1072 of 1373 🔗

Genghis probably wants a taxpayer bailout for debt-ridden TfL, having already threatened shutdowns. And the easiest way to get treasury bungs is for local lockdown compliance.

194090 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to DRW, 1, #1073 of 1373 🔗

Khan just wants people to look at him. Even Johnson wasn’t narcissistic enough to insist that his name should be added to every single poster. It used to be “mayor of London” now it’s “mayor of London, Saddiq Khan”

194107 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to matt, 1, #1074 of 1373 🔗

Yeah, that too.

194030 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Ceriain, 2, #1075 of 1373 🔗

Exactly – how can it be a crisis if you can’t even tell it’s happening?!

And what does he mean by adequately tested? I assume he means that random aysmptomatic people off the street aren’t being tested, not that people with symptoms or ending up in hospital aren’t able to get tests.

194036 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to matt, 1, #1076 of 1373 🔗

Hadn’t hear that part of his argument, thanks. Just goes to prove that if you stop testing, the problem goes away…

193969 ▶▶ Bill Hickling, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #1077 of 1373 🔗

My two ha’pence worth. I live in the south-east and I don’t know about you but I know a lot of people who had a Covid-type illness early in the year. I did in early March. I have also read any number of comments on-line telling a similar story. If the virus is as infectious as it is said then it would have spread quickly and effectively. Perhaps we have reached something approaching herd-immunity in the south and west despite the lockdown.

194052 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Bill Hickling, 3, #1078 of 1373 🔗

Yes I’m in the home counties and know lots of people saying the same, although I’m sure plenty of those illnesses were just normal colds and flu.

193972 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to A. Contrarian, 17, #1079 of 1373 🔗

The epidemic had already peaked in London before lockdown.Shutting down just stopped it reaching other parts of the country.What we are seeing is a suppressed first wave joined with a casedemic caused by false positives

193977 ▶▶▶ Bill h, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #1080 of 1373 🔗

Nice summary Jonathan.


193987 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #1081 of 1373 🔗

Brilliant explanation for any “second wave” anywhere. Although I prefer calling it a testdemic as severely symptomatic positives are now a minority.

194008 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to DRW, 2, #1082 of 1373 🔗

I agree. No ‘wave’ anywhere in sight. Just the usual seasonal uptick.

194053 ▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to DRW, 1, #1083 of 1373 🔗

They were always a minority.

194038 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #1084 of 1373 🔗

Yes this is what I think, but I wondered how the powers that be were explaining it when they supposedly don’t believe that herd immunity is a thing.

194158 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1085 of 1373 🔗

They long ago left scientific explanations behind.The policy is now to use dodgy testing to terrify the population into subservience.It worked so well the first time why not do it again.

194047 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #1086 of 1373 🔗

Yes, for sure London has reached HIT. But so have the big cities in the NW.
Deaths were going down everywhere by late April.
It’s all about the tests.
IMO, certain labs just tweak their positives rate to order.
The Govt simply wants London to have some freedom of movement, because it suits their own class.
Are the Oxbridge freshers getting locked down in their halls? Doubt it..
Now we have these regional deals, where skint local authorities are bribed with cash to introduce ever stricter local regimes, and it’s always the traditional working-class towns in the Midlands and the North.

193985 ▶▶ Julian, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #1087 of 1373 🔗

I strongly doubt the government or their advisors think much about this kind of stuff. I don’t think they are much interested in properly understanding what is going on – if they were they would not chop and change every 5 minutes without giving time to properly measure effects of interventions.

To the extent they think about anything, it is spinning a line to justify the next set of nonsense, but beyond that as no-one actually asks them awkward questions, why would they bother?

194045 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Julian, 1, #1088 of 1373 🔗

Suspect you’re right although why there hasn’t been a single MSM journalist asking this question is beyond me.

194000 ▶▶ RickH, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #1089 of 1373 🔗

The implications that you outline are absolutely on the money.

It is pretty obvious that the early surge in London did, indeed, create a high degree of immunity.

The conflicts within the present policy – to continue to terrify a population into subservience – are obvious.

194143 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to A. Contrarian, #1090 of 1373 🔗

It was conceded in early Summer that antibodies were far more prevalent in London than anywhere else.

194261 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to A. Contrarian, #1091 of 1373 🔗

Have they actually tested thousands of London students?

Bearing in mind that students don’t necessarily go to their local uni but travel from all over the country, it seems weird that only the “infected” ones would turn up in Northern cities!

194301 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Cheezilla, #1092 of 1373 🔗

My thoughts exactly. The deafening silence on London students, no stories of them being locked up in their halls etc, is decidedly odd.

193982 JHuntz, replying to JHuntz, 5, #1093 of 1373 🔗
194255 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JHuntz, #1094 of 1373 🔗

Spread some freedom dust!
Whoop! Whoop!

194277 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to JHuntz, #1095 of 1373 🔗

Great. Guaranteed viral.

194003 Ceriain, replying to Ceriain, 14, #1096 of 1373 🔗

I know you are all going to reply with, “ bought off with money, better job, seat at the high table in the NWO “, but there must be , I mean must be some in Government, even in the Cabinet who know this is bullshit. What’s stopping them from speaking out, resigning, etc .?

194013 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Ceriain, 8, #1097 of 1373 🔗

Fear of being the one to say the Emperor has no clothes?

Desire to keep their job, love of power. Vanity trumps honesty.

Also I think they are pretty good a self delusion.

194050 ▶▶▶ John Galt, replying to Julian, 6, #1098 of 1373 🔗

This sums it up nicely.

On a smaller level, look what happened to the Care Home assistant who spoke out after being seen at a lockdown protest. She lost her job. Now imagine a government official speaking out – he’ll lose his cushy job, his high pay and any chance at getting a job in politics in the future.

The irony of it is, if any MP spoke out and called this out for what it was, I think they’d gain such fervent support over it.

194188 ▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to John Galt, #1099 of 1373 🔗

And look what has happened to Greg Clarke, who was giving people like Dido Harding a hard time at the Commons Science and Technology Committee on 17 September. After that, his Committee was swiftly folded into the Health and Social Care Committee into CV 19, and the Chairmanship effectively transferred to its Chair, Jeremy Hunt, a man still with political ambitions…

194016 ▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Ceriain, 2, #1100 of 1373 🔗

£250k a year

194020 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Ceriain, 3, #1101 of 1373 🔗

The Government has played a blinder with its scare propaganda and all the MPs can see that at the moment their chances of re-election are best with supporting the lock-down. As Hermann Gormann put it they have convinced the majority that we are under attack and must follow the leaders or we are all doomed,

194055 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Ceriain, 1, #1102 of 1373 🔗

I suppose that those who see and are bothered by the truth (if they exist) would have to play something of a long game. Resignation gets you a headline, but then influence is lost. Equally, speaking out without certainty that others will back you up when it comes to the crunch is a grand but meaningless gesture. I doubt politicians trust each other any more than we trust them.

194062 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Ceriain, 5, #1103 of 1373 🔗

They do know it’s bullshit but they’re terrified of a surge in deaths over the winter. Realistically, winter deaths this year won’t be any higher than usual, possibly lower as many vulnerable people passed away in the spring. If deaths are at a normal or lower level then they can claim credit for saving us all. If I’m wrong and the death rate rockets, the government will face one hell of a pasting by the opposition & MSM. I think they view lockdown as a PR damage limitation exercise TBH. As far as they’re concerned it’s the lesser of two evils.
PS. My boyfriend always points out that the lesser of two evils is still evil!

194084 ▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 4, #1104 of 1373 🔗

Yep, think you’re correct. They’re jeffing cowards and have been all along.

194017 2 pence, replying to 2 pence, 7, #1105 of 1373 🔗

Around the time Twitter purged New York Post’s bombshell stories about Hunter Biden from its platform, late last week, Amazon was busy censoring any criticism against the “official” COVID-19 narrative, with the banning of at least one book from its Amazon Books store.
Political writer James Perloff’s latest book, “Covid-19 and the Agendas to Come: Red-Pilled,” was removed from Amazon on Thursday, he tweeted .

“BAD NEWS. After selling over 3,500 copies for Amazon since publication on August 20, Amazon has banned my book “COVID-19 and the Agendas to Come, Red-Pilled.” Individual orders can still be placed at…” Perloff tweeted.


194123 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to 2 pence, 2, #1106 of 1373 🔗

Amazon has also been purging kindle books exposing Obamagate and any related subjects. There is at least one guy bringing a case against them for doing this..

194018 ianric, replying to ianric, 8, #1107 of 1373 🔗

Placing the entire country under house arrest and shutting down the economy has never been done before as a response to flu outbreaks and the lockdown Nazis forget this and act as if the current response is perfectly normal. Have the draconian and extreme measures we see today ever been suggested as a response to flu pandemics. Were draconian measures introduced during the far deadlier Spanish flu outbreak and SARS in 2003.

194035 ▶▶ 2 pence, replying to ianric, 1, #1108 of 1373 🔗

I posted this a few days ago.
In 1919 the media and her controllers launched a psychological assault on the Australian population pertaining to the imminent appearance of a deadly disease that was headed for our shores, known initially as the pneumonic influenza epidemic.
The public became erratic with the media feeding the fear and the states acted not much better with all borders closed and non-essential travel ground to a halt.
Fear grasped the nation as the public demanded action. The government of course was happy to comply and sought the advice from a specialist to provide the “road-map” required to deal with this new concern. Dr. Lanza, a Rockerfeller rep was flown to Australia to head up the fight.

194102 ▶▶ DRW, replying to ianric, 3, #1109 of 1373 🔗

Similarly, the natural immunity deniers need to be asked what did end past pandemics. A numerical threshold is theoretical, but it certainly wasn’t vaccines, testing, lockdowns or mass antisocial distancing either.

194117 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to ianric, 2, #1110 of 1373 🔗

The Spanish flu was of an order of magnitude more deadly than Covid and the entire population was susceptible not just the vulnerable so it’s not really a comparable outbreak. The Asian flu of 1957 (1 million killed worldwide) and Hong Kong flu (1-4 million) are better comparisons. The world population was about half what it is today so you need to double those totals to account for population. At neither time were every man and his dog ordered to wear masks or antisocial distancing enforced. There was no mad panic or hysteria. Yet somehow the world didn’t end and people carried on more or less as normal.

194289 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Chicot, 1, #1111 of 1373 🔗

It was also 100 years ago – in very different circumstances, and details are much disputed.

194026 Sara, replying to Sara, 2, #1112 of 1373 🔗

Has anyone here been diagnosed with Covid-19? In late February I had a lurgy which was Day 1, fatigue and muscle aches, Day 2, incredible fatigue, muscle aches, difficult breathing, Day 3, incredible fatigue, muscle aches, difficult breathing (which eased after a walk in the fresh air, even though I was done in by ten minutes walking), fatigue and muscle aches tailing off over the next 5 days, occasional feeling of difficult breathing over the next four weeks. I presumed that was it.
Several people at the kid’s school have had positive covid tests in the past fortnight. My son and I have had what I would call a mild flu, but that matches a family I know who have all tested positive. My son’s symptoms were Day1 temperature, Days 2-5 mild achiness, Day 6,7 okay, Day 8 cough. My symptoms were Day1 swollen tonsil, Day 2 temperature, Day 3-5 mild achiness, Day 6 okay, Day 7-10 post-nasal drip (sorry tmi) causing cough and bad taste.
I can’t actually find a day by day list of symptoms in the press anywhere! There doesn’t actually seem to be much information out there! Is there more than one version of Covid? Is there more than one disease being picked up by the PCR test? The mild flu that we have just had, didn’t have a cough until a week in, and yet that seems to be what triggered the PCR test, for the family that I know who did get tested.

194046 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Sara, 6, #1113 of 1373 🔗

From the revelation that flu has dropped by 97% in 2020, you can be sure flu has, at the very least, been propping up Covid numbers.

The other theory, for which there is some medical evidence, that flu is being pushed out by Covid. So one winter pressure is replaced with another.

194094 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #1114 of 1373 🔗

Still got to flog those jabs though.

194116 ▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #1115 of 1373 🔗

Re. the “pushed out” theory, do you have a link I could have a read of please? I think co-infection is likely but I haven’t heard about the pushed out idea.

194106 ▶▶ Paul M, replying to Sara, 1, #1117 of 1373 🔗

Dr Micheal Yeadon @yardleyyeadon3 posted on twitter a few days ago that the pcr test is giving a positive to one of the usual common cold viruses. About a 1% return. He posted the table to back it up.

So that on top of the huge false positive rate.

194119 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Paul M, 1, #1118 of 1373 🔗

He isn’t the only one saying this – seen other doctors reporting it online as well.. Anecdotally I was working in a kitchen here in Sweden this morning and a friend said her elderly mother (who has dementia) was being tested for covid as she has various symptoms. A bit later she got a phone call to say the test was negative but that the doctor had said that the PCR tests are picking up other flu-like viruses (even though in this case it had not picked up anything)..

194027 Ceriain, 16, #1119 of 1373 🔗

DT live feed (paywall):

The latest figures showed there were 4,974 Covid-19 patients in hospital in England today, up from 3,451 a week ago – an increase of 44 per cent.

More propaganda: there are 4974 patients in hospital in England who have tested positive for Covid-19 ; they are not all being treated for Covid-19 , as has been pointed out numerous times on here by us, and by the NHS surgeon who writes above the line for Will and Toby on occasion.

194031 AllieT, replying to AllieT, 4, #1120 of 1373 🔗

Re: the cancer story, I work in a GP surgery and at the beginning of lockdown distinctly remember being told that cancer patients would continue being treated at the local private hospitals (3 where I live in a county town) So far I have yet to find out if this happened ….

194043 ▶▶ John P, replying to AllieT, 3, #1121 of 1373 🔗

My dad (77) told me his radiotherapy was delayed a month. He was treated in an NHS hospital.

I’m not sure if this was his only choice. According to my mother – and despite being a staunch Tory voter – he did not want to be treated privately.

He had the radiotherapy treatment in August over a four week period. He’s okay now, so far as we are aware, but continues to have regular hormone injections.

194058 ▶▶▶ AllieT, replying to John P, 1, #1122 of 1373 🔗

Hi John glad to hear your Dad got his treatment & is doing well. As far as I’m aware patients didn’t have to ‘go private’ the private providers were supposed to step in and provide services in a ‘Covid free’ environment. Whether this actually has happened I aim to find out!

194033 Old Normal, 1, #1123 of 1373 🔗

A new video from America’s Frontline Doctors.


194044 AnotherSceptic, replying to AnotherSceptic, 8, #1124 of 1373 🔗


Sorry for the repost here, but some of my replies to the scared masses are getting posted (earlier it said my comments were disabled)
I am currently getting pelted with fear & panic, but I am holding court.
If you want a laugh at some of the insane comments, check these out before I get properly banned.

194074 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to AnotherSceptic, 2, #1125 of 1373 🔗

Depressing comments!
Who says Amazon is killing the High Street?

I thought the Trafford Centre was closing?

194081 ▶▶▶ AnotherSceptic, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1126 of 1373 🔗

No…not Amazon, coronavirus is killing the high street…& everything else by the looks of it.
Yes, agree, they are depressing comments, but I like to try put across the Sceptics view point….despite it not getting through by the looks of it.

194111 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to AnotherSceptic, 4, #1127 of 1373 🔗

I see that Manchester Police are saying; if exempt bring proof’ which is weird as the BMA have issued advice to GPs not to get involved in this face-mask issue, I have this on a Health Centre letter which I carry with me. And so what proof is acceptable or possible? I suspect this goes a lot on stereotyping by the police. I am elderly and after 8 Months of lock-down have the demeanor of a deranged psychotic Victor Meldrew, I do wear a ‘sunshine’ lanyard and find that everyone, including police give me a gritted teeth smile and back away! and I have never been challenged. If I was instead a fit young fellow, I suspect the police would assume I was ‘trying it on’ and be more aggressive.

194235 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #1128 of 1373 🔗

If you were a fit young fellow with bulging muscles and a truculent expression, I doubt if the fuzz would try it on.

194294 ▶▶▶▶ stevie119, replying to annie, 2, #1129 of 1373 🔗

I`m a grumpy looking feller of 6 foot four. Nobody has challenged me – yet.

194051 quodcumque, replying to quodcumque, 34, #1130 of 1373 🔗

A really unpleasant facemask confrontation just now. This was an empty Shell Garage with a cashier behind perspex and a mask, and I went in unmasked, as I have many times in other shops. I’ve only been questioned twice before and on both occasions have said I’m exempt and the questioner has instantly accepted it. To be clear, my only possible exemption is the “extreme distress” excuse but I am fairly appalled that something so draconian has happened without any proper discussion and on such flimsy evidence and I’m disappointed that people seem so accepting. I don’t want to enter a world in which people can’t show their faces in public forever without doing my best to resist and I’m not convinced these things are ever going to go away. I was first told by the cashier that it was the law that I needed an exemption card, then that it was company policy. I told him that it was not the law and that I would be very surprised if Shell had such a policy as I’d not come across it elsewhere. I then offered to shop elsewhere but said I would be writing a letter. He said that I could write what I liked but the law said I needed an exemption card. This developed into a bit of a disagreement with me saying that I didn’t think it was reasonable to expect people to discuss their medical history with complete strangers and him repeating that that was the law. I took out my phone and showed a section on the .gov.uk website that says masks are not necessary. His reply was something like “Yes, well I can’t believe you’ve come in here with this attitude, trying it on. My father’s very vulnerable and it’s an airborne disease.” My reply was that I have lost a relative to this virus (which is true) and my mother would also be considered very vulnerable but I wasn’t sure this was relevant. At this point he began shouting, saying I should leave immediately or he would call the police. I said, “I haven’t insulted you, I haven’t raised my voice, I actually tried to leave but you tried to continue a conversation. You haven’t at any point asked me to leave or refused to serve me. Literally all I’ve done wrong is disagree with you and tell you I’m not required to wear a mask. I really can’t believe the police are being mentioned.” Then, as I started to walk out, he actually apologised, saying he had overreacted but a lot of people were “trying it on”. He served me and we wished each other a good evening. Definitely not worth it for 4 pints of milk.

194056 ▶▶ Eddy, replying to quodcumque, 11, #1131 of 1373 🔗

I ALWAYS fill up first. They can come out for my cash if they won’t let me in.

194061 ▶▶▶ quodcumque, replying to Eddy, 11, #1132 of 1373 🔗

I wasn’t even buying petrol. And honestly an argument was the last thing I was expecting. I thought all retailers had now accepted that this was something for the authorities to worry about.

194070 ▶▶▶▶ Eddy, replying to quodcumque, 10, #1133 of 1373 🔗

He will be made redundant soon.

194064 ▶▶ Paul, replying to quodcumque, 16, #1134 of 1373 🔗

The day is coming very soon when retailers like him will be begging for customers,masked or not,they just can’t see it.

194066 ▶▶▶ quodcumque, replying to Paul, 11, #1135 of 1373 🔗

Yes, I mostly want things to go back to normal but incidents like this almost make me wish you are right. The small positive is that in his position I’d be less likely to challenge someone else in that way again.

194105 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Paul, 1, #1136 of 1373 🔗

Begging for mercy.

194072 ▶▶ Julian, replying to quodcumque, 7, #1137 of 1373 🔗

Hats off. You acquitted yourself with distinction.

194076 ▶▶ Sodastream, replying to quodcumque, 6, #1138 of 1373 🔗

Good for you for staying calm and sorry this is what’s happening. I find it difficult and stressful I have the same exemption as yourself and it makes me dread going into places. Sounds like you managed it well…

194079 ▶▶▶ l835, replying to Sodastream, #1139 of 1373 🔗

I get the feeling that a lot of shops are now demanding proof of exemption.

194089 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to quodcumque, 15, #1140 of 1373 🔗

An awful experience for you and you have my total sympathy and you stood your ground so well done. But sometimes it is best to leave the field graciously when you come up against ignorance, fear, aggression and sheer bone headedness. To be crystal clear: You DO NOT have to justify your exemption to anyone—that is the law. If you are in a shop and you are challenged about your lack of a mask by another customer, or worse still a member of staff, after saying you are exempt go into MUTE mode. If it is a customer ask to see the manager. If it is a member of staff ask to see the manager also. In your case, if there is no higher authority, WALK OUT. No messing, no arguing, no upping the anti. You don’t have to shop there and as you yourself have found most establishments conduct themselves with decency and civility towards ALL their customers

You cannot argue with these brain washed types. They have overdosed on government propaganda and are convinced that there is a real threat lurking around every corner. As the saying goes—‘don’t argue with stupid people as they will always beat you with experience’.

I’ve been going without a mask for eight months now and I think I’ve come across all the attitudes. Sometimes it really is best just to walk away. It is they who suffer after all. They NEED your custom—-you can take it elsewhere, they lose in the end.

194096 ▶▶▶ quodcumque, replying to Harry hopkins, 6, #1141 of 1373 🔗

Thank you, all of you. Yes, it really is stressful and I’m less likely to enter a shop in the near future. My immediate wish was to leave, but with dignity. The thought of him congratulating himself on having seen off an an “anti-masker” wasn’t pleasant.

194203 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to quodcumque, 6, #1142 of 1373 🔗

No point in arguing, put your money down and walk off. If he is that worried he should stay indoors, prick

194226 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to quodcumque, 3, #1143 of 1373 🔗

I’d have walked. End of!

194812 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to quodcumque, #1144 of 1373 🔗

You did very well! Vote with your feet

194057 AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 5, #1145 of 1373 🔗

Paul Joseph Watson on top top top form


194104 ▶▶ Crazy Times, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 5, #1146 of 1373 🔗

Top comment on that video is well worth remembering.

“If the situation was hopeless, their propaganda would be unnecessary”

Stay strong brothers and sisters.

194068 JudgeMental, 11, #1147 of 1373 🔗

Ex Dragons Den Rachel Elnaugh has read Klaus Schwabs Covid-19 The Great Reset book and she makes a good point. Although the book lays out a vision of the future, nowhere in any of the chapters does it give any explanation of how we get there. She believes there is a separate implementation guide, which the worldwide governments have signed up to but is not for our eyes.


194069 Eddy, replying to Eddy, 14, #1148 of 1373 🔗

Just one MP has resigned so far in relation to the Covid hoax. How sad is that?

194110 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Eddy, 4, #1149 of 1373 🔗

Do you mean Chris Green? If so, at least Yeadon is reaching out to him (at length) via Twitter…

194140 ▶▶▶ Eddy, replying to Carrie, 1, #1150 of 1373 🔗

Yes Chris Green.

194192 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Eddy, 4, #1151 of 1373 🔗

This is crunch week. The northern MPs are furious. I expect more resignations this week, including someone senior.

194220 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #1152 of 1373 🔗

I think we’ve discussed this before, TT; we desperately need a cabinet minister to resign

194234 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Ceriain, 4, #1153 of 1373 🔗

Agree. Doris will U turn mid-week and go for circuit break lockdown, and that will trigger resignation(s). Moody’s downgraded our paper on Friday night – Treasury cannot ignore that, so logically Sunak resigns this week.

194343 ▶▶▶▶▶ Telpin, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1154 of 1373 🔗

If he’s got any political ambitions he should – if I were him I’d want to distance myself from this shit show

194085 Charlie Blue, replying to Charlie Blue, 5, #1155 of 1373 🔗


Headline looks promising, but
“Professor Jonathan Van-Tam has reportedly admitted there is little evidence that the 10pm curfew works and said he would prefer a mandatory pub closing time of 6pm.”


194093 ▶▶ jb12, replying to Charlie Blue, 8, #1156 of 1373 🔗

Van Tam is one of the worst, a reprehensible man

194197 ▶▶▶ Toby Pierides, replying to jb12, #1157 of 1373 🔗

Van Tam has huge links to big pharma…

194097 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Charlie Blue, 8, #1158 of 1373 🔗

He, like several others, appears to just want to close the economy down, and has a distinctly anti-alcohol attitude full stop.

194137 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Charlie Blue, 3, #1159 of 1373 🔗

Do all these doctors just hate people?

194160 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to thinkaboutit, 1, #1160 of 1373 🔗

I think so. Probably why they don’t actually have roles involving treating patients.

194256 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to thinkaboutit, #1161 of 1373 🔗

Maybe they’re just odd psychopaths who were bullied at school.

194170 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #1162 of 1373 🔗

No evidence. So let’s double down. You can call this nonsense months in advance

194254 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #1163 of 1373 🔗

How about a mandatory sequestration and donation to charity of all pharma shares and other benefits from the industry held by government advisors?

194285 ▶▶ stevie119, replying to Charlie Blue, 2, #1164 of 1373 🔗

What a massive cunt.

194092 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 17, #1165 of 1373 🔗


“A lead investigator on the Danish mask study – the ONLY (as far as I know) randomized trial to see if masks protect from C-19 – was asked when it would be published. His answer: “as soon as a journal is brave enough.” If you think that means the study shows masks work…”

194212 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1166 of 1373 🔗

Likely reason

194369 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1167 of 1373 🔗


Even before its publication(if it is published)it has been attacked in this letter to Danish publisher.They think that the design of the study is flawed. They think that the design might be disadvantegous for the protection of mask.So they warn that the study might be used to wrongly discredit mask.It goes without saying that the letter comes from US and they describe 3 observational studies with good result of masks. They recommend to stop publishing the study due to the purpoted defects.

194430 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to swedenborg, #1168 of 1373 🔗

Alternatively, why not allow it to be published and then subject to proper scrutiny, as science is supposed to work?

Ah, but this is covid, so things are different now …

194100 Liz F, replying to Liz F, 11, #1169 of 1373 🔗

Wasn’t it Matt Handcock who said “Don’t kill your granny”? So why is the Department for Health and Social Care (talk about a misnomer) asking care homes to take elderly Covid patients from hospitals? Words fail me.

194113 ▶▶ John Galt, replying to Liz F, 9, #1170 of 1373 🔗

They’re doing it again?

I was talking to someone about this the other week – when they did it before it was most obvious, and callous, form of bumping the numbers. You spread covid around a care home full of elderly, vulnerable people, then, oh look, you get lots of deaths with covid. It’s such an atrocity, and it’s so clear and obvious it’s on purpose.

I’ve just looked up the story on the DailyMail and two of the top comments hit the nail on the head, in different ways. The first is blunt and on the nose:

And so the culling begins again. Shameless.

The second simultaneously misses the point and also nails it completely:

Have we not learned anything? This single measure was responsible for a large portion of deaths in the first wave!

194122 ▶▶▶ Liz F, replying to John Galt, 4, #1171 of 1373 🔗

It’s just sickening, makes me wonder what universe the government is living in. Is Hancock actually human?

194227 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Liz F, 1, #1172 of 1373 🔗


194366 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to John Galt, #1173 of 1373 🔗

That’s why I said in a message (as yet unanswered) to my MP that I consider Johnson, Hancock and Whitty to be criminals, and MPs who do not oppose their crimes to be complicit in them.

194115 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Liz F, 3, #1174 of 1373 🔗

Trying to get the death numbers up again.

194101 2 pence, replying to 2 pence, 4, #1175 of 1373 🔗

White House Expert Scott Atlas Censored By Twitter
Twitter has capped off a week of censorship by silencing a top White House scientist.
OCTOBER 18, 2020 By David Marcus
Social media company Twitter finished its week of apparently politically motivated censorship on its platform by banning tweets regarding the efficacy of masks from Scott Atlas, a member of the White House scientific team battling the coronavirus.


194109 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to 2 pence, 5, #1176 of 1373 🔗

But they have no problem with Fauci (no surprise there..) whose latest positive (!) message is this: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fauci-warns-we-need-to-keep-our-eye-on-new-swine-flu-strain-in-china

Is this the ‘next one’ that Bill G has been saying that we ‘will take seriously’ ???

194237 ▶▶▶ Eddy, replying to Carrie, 1, #1177 of 1373 🔗

No the next one is another strain called covid-21 should be here in February. Seriously.

194108 NickR, replying to NickR, 6, #1178 of 1373 🔗

Autumn respiratory deaths including Covid since 2010.
Slightly higher, following a similar curve.

194114 ▶▶ TJN, replying to NickR, 3, #1179 of 1373 🔗

The 2020 slightly higher curve: presumably in previous years patients who died of other causes (heart attacks, etc.) were not PRC tested for flu or other respiratory viruses.

Adjust for how we know the figures are being fiddled, and 2020 is probably a routine year.

194128 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to TJN, 2, #1180 of 1373 🔗

Really that’s my point, even if it is slightly ahead of prior years it’s in the ballpark & following the same trajectory. Remember, there’s loads dying of God knows what in their own home so I’m pretty amazed it isn’t further ahead.

194205 ▶▶ RickH, replying to NickR, #1181 of 1373 🔗

Problem : Trying to attribute deaths to Covid on the basis of ….???

Bottom line : 2020 all-cause mortality is around the 25-year low

194236 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to NickR, 1, #1182 of 1373 🔗

Some rise after the very low 2019 flu year was inevitable but the difference is overall too low to be statistically significant

194118 swedenborg, 7, #1183 of 1373 🔗


“Spain, Surrealism Home
Madrid region has bars&restaurants opened, but city border is closed so you can’t travel. Catalonia region has bars&restaurants closed, but as all borders are open, some catalonians are traveling to Aragón for weekend and enjoying bars Result: bars&travel

 It is getting almost farcial. Johnson’s byzantine rules will overtake this

194120 quodcumque, replying to quodcumque, 33, #1184 of 1373 🔗

I think I’ll risk a second excessively long post this evening. I wrote here a few weeks ago about my experiences teaching at an independent secondary school. Teenagers are not paranoid, and they don’t understand covid rules (and unlike the rest of us, they don’t pretend to either). There’s little social distancing, masks are constantly forgotten, no fear, and no harm to anyone. Everything should be like it was in 2019 as far as they’re concerned. They have no inhibitions about saying it’s all stupid. I make a point of greeting the ones who have forgotten to wear masks especially warmly.

A receptionist screamed “Where’s your mask?” at me a few weeks ago. “I’m wearing it”, I said. She looked confused and said nothing. I was walking so fast it might have been hard to tell, but I suppose my reply was technically what is known as gaslighting. It was perhaps a two-yard walk between two outdoor areas and she was behind a layer of perspex and a visor. She apologised later, saying she thought I was a pupil. I’d hoped things would relax as the term went on, but the bossy types, who love this virus and who I’m starting to believe even wear their masks to bed, are winning out. I don’t see things getting back to normal soon. Thirty years ago we’d have called this flu and people would have got on with their lives. Now we have to pretend it’s a plague. For some, this is simply the most exciting thing that has happened in their lives and they do not intend to let it end any earlier than it needs to.

Pupils who make that same two-yard walk and merely hold the mask over their faces are screamed at much more severely than I was. It’s not enough merely to obey the rules; you have to demonstrate your belief in them. A few days ago a colleague stormed out of a room, slamming a door, after she heard me tell a boy that I wasn’t especially worried about covid but I thought we might as well do our best to follow the rules so we don’t get into trouble. He had taken the sheet I had touched instead of the one he was asked to take, and I had not properly acknowledged the enormity of the transgression. Incredibly, another colleague told me she spends so much time each day wiping things down and washing her hands that she finds there’s now very little time to teach. I realise that sounds like something I’ve made up but it really isn’t.

I patrolled a corridor when the rules were still unclear. As I encountered a group of pupils, whose tutor is, um, me:
Unmasked teacher 1: Shouldn’t they be wearing masks?
Quodcumque: I think that’s just if they’re mixing with other year groups.
Unmasked teacher 2: I thought they have to wear masks at all times, unless they’re in a lesson.
Masked deputy head: It’s fine. If they’re not mixing with other years they don’t need masks.
Later, the same deputy head sends an email saying they do actually need masks in this situation. I have moved this to a special folder called “Extremely important”, along with the one that threatens terrible consequences for anyone who jokes about covid. So far there’s just been no opportunity to do proper justice to these emails, with all the games of bingo, hangman, splat and Pictionary that I have scheduled, and I haven’t got round to reading them out. Later that day I heard teacher 1 telling a boy he was putting her life in danger. Interestingly she now seems to spend much of her day roaming the school looking for pupils who will put her life in danger so that she can scream at them.

194132 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to quodcumque, 11, #1185 of 1373 🔗

The teachers need a course in population statistics. Perhaps you could set the students the task of collecting ONS statistics and making pretty charts out of them. Like the chart that shows if you are under 60 and have no comorbidities your risk of Covid death is tiny. Post them on the walls.
Are all teachers nowadays ( yourself excepted) complete morons?

194161 ▶▶▶ quodcumque, replying to thinkaboutit, 4, #1186 of 1373 🔗

I do still think the hypochondriacs are a minority. A desire not to offend is the biggest pressure on most people and it’s impossible to have a conversation about whether we might not be overreacting without risking an explosion from the other person.

194194 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to quodcumque, 2, #1187 of 1373 🔗

… and beyond that is not just fear, hypochondria and social pressure. The power of brainwashing through propaganda can’t be underestimated – feeding totally information.

194166 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to thinkaboutit, 4, #1188 of 1373 🔗

Hmm – if I were a Maths teacher I would be setting my kids a project to surf the net looking for evidence of covid not being as harmful as the media say!

194189 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Carrie, 2, #1189 of 1373 🔗

Great project for basic A-level Statistics : give them some raw historical ONS data and a few questions.

194139 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to quodcumque, 7, #1190 of 1373 🔗

We live in La La land now. Way too much power has been given to neurotic hypochondriacs.

194172 ▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Two-Six, 3, #1191 of 1373 🔗

Yes. We can no longer say ” pull yourself together “.
How would these people have got through 1940?

194179 ▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to thinkaboutit, 3, #1192 of 1373 🔗

Quite possibly they would have fared relatively well because they wouldn’t have been brainwashed into believing their own family and friends were a mortal danger.

194141 ▶▶ matt, replying to quodcumque, 13, #1193 of 1373 🔗

“she now seems to spend much of her day roaming the school looking for pupils who will put her life in danger so that she can scream at them”

Wanted to repeat it because it gave me a genuine laugh.

194180 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to quodcumque, 6, #1194 of 1373 🔗

Incredibly, another colleague told me she spends so much time each day wiping things down and washing her hands that she finds there’s now very little time to teach.

She needs slapping, and sacked, in that order.

Later that day I heard teacher 1 telling a boy he was putting her life in danger. Interestingly she now seems to spend much of her day roaming the school looking for pupils who will put her life in danger so that she can scream at them.

See above. 😉

194225 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Ceriain, 8, #1195 of 1373 🔗

She wears her mask in bed.
If she didn’t she’d be dead.
There’s nothing in her head
Except panic, fear and dread.
If she popped her clogs tomorrow
There’d be precious little sorrow.

194288 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to quodcumque, #1196 of 1373 🔗

A very welcome second act, Quodcumque. I particularly like the bland plonking malice of ‘I have moved this to a special folder called “Extremely important” ‘.

Unless this barking hysterical version of the world is dismantled quick smart, please do post again as your term progresses further. You’re lucky: you’re unlikely to lose all your pupils overnight. I teach in a university dept and my union is screaming for lockdown.

194335 ▶▶▶ quodcumque, replying to Alethea, #1197 of 1373 🔗

Thanks Alethea. Yes I’m hearing the same from others I know who teach in universities. Independent school teachers at least realise their jobs aren’t secure if they remain closed. Many academics seem now to have the option to eliminate all personal interaction with students, which if we’re honest is what some have wanted all along.

194385 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to quodcumque, #1198 of 1373 🔗

Excellent post Q. It’s great to hear the young ‘uns don’t give a damn for the most part

194401 ▶▶ ColoradoGirl, replying to quodcumque, #1199 of 1373 🔗

I loved this post! I am a seventh grade teacher in a charter school in the states. Like you, I had hoped that things would relax after several weeks. Last week, we started our first week of full classes (they can only come three days per week.) I and my fellow middle school recess monitors thought it would be the end to social distancing on the playground. Unfortunately, no. We received an email stating that kids would only be allowed to remove masks if they were six feet apart and SITTING. It boggles the mind.

194126 matt, replying to matt, 3, #1200 of 1373 🔗

I’m not sure whether this has been posted before – sorry if it has. Part of this was quoted on the Yeadon thread to Chris Green from the other day. It’s fascinating


194173 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to matt, 1, #1201 of 1373 🔗

Great stuff. Definitely worth a read even for those of us who read the Twitter thread.

194308 ▶▶ David McCluskey, replying to matt, #1202 of 1373 🔗

Thanks, most interesting and in line with my own investigation BUT as I noted in my earlier post today, facts are now irrelevant. What the Government are about is wholly a political ploy intended to snatch ‘victory’ from defeat. They know there’s not going to be a second wave but are manufacturing one so that they will appear to have saved the country. By so doing, Johnson and his cronies hope that they will deflect the wrath of the electorate when the masses finally realise what a diabolical mess his Government has created.

194127 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 22, #1203 of 1373 🔗

Sorry but I’m asking for your help and prayers yet again.

DiL’s BP is such that there’s a serious threat she might have to have the baby 11 weeks premature.

Can’t imagine what it must be like for her and my son who aren’t allowed to be together at this time because of “covid rules”

194134 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Cheezilla, 12, #1204 of 1373 🔗

Sending all my positive thoughts and prayers for your family xxx

194135 ▶▶ matt, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #1205 of 1373 🔗

My thoughts and prayers with you all, Cheez.

194147 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #1206 of 1373 🔗

I’m so sorry. This is barbarism. Thoughts with all of you.

194154 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #1207 of 1373 🔗

So very sorry Cheezilla. Sending you all my thoughts and prayers.

194181 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #1208 of 1373 🔗

No excuse. No ifs or buts. A patent, perverted monstrosity. I feel for you and your family.

Makes my tussle with PCR testing small beer.

194207 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #1209 of 1373 🔗

Babies born that early can survive and thrive. Keep hope.

194214 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1210 of 1373 🔗

Will pray, all the best for your DiL and family

194278 ▶▶ stevie119, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1211 of 1373 🔗

I don`t do praying but my thoughts are with them, and you.

194279 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1212 of 1373 🔗

thinking my best thoughts towards you all

194304 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1213 of 1373 🔗

In my thoughts very much, Chee Zilla.

194351 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1214 of 1373 🔗

Sending you all my support and best wishes. My daughter was born 12 weeks early ( and is now a healthy 19 year old) but I do remember what a worrying and stressful time it was. Xx

194364 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1215 of 1373 🔗

My son born 7 weeks early 30 years ago; now a strapping six-footer.

Your son and DIL in my thoughts, Cheezy. xx

194383 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1216 of 1373 🔗

I will add my best wishes. I had 2 preemies, but at 5 and 6 weeks early. I hope they are able to get her BP under control and can hold off on delivering the baby. I also hope your son is able to be there for his wife. I’d raise holy hell; it’s absolutely unconscionable.

194133 Kevin 2, 4, #1217 of 1373 🔗

Catch Scott Atlas giving the US Public Health cabal both barrels on Del Bigtree’s weekly Highwire.
He doesn’t hold back… (“Crimes against humanity..”)


Atlas at about 28.30.

Also Johnson and Johnson unexplained trial hold at about 12.00

Nabarro statement at 25.00.

CDC data showing no stat sig benefit from masks at 47.00!
And CDC saying at no time have they suggested masks protect the wearer!
Then Robert Redfield (Director of CDC) saying that his mask protects himself more than a vaccine (at the same as holding up his mask with fingers all over the inside of the mask!

Whole show is a must if you have the time.

194146 David McCluskey, replying to David McCluskey, 8, #1218 of 1373 🔗

In addition to trying to understand why so many people have been panicked by gov.uk propaganda (see my earlier contribution today at around 16:30) I have been attempting to fathom the wearing of masks outdoors and I got a clue just the other day. My wife told me that our window-cleaner wears a mask everywhere. He’s probably in his 40s and as far as I know enjoys good health. At any rate he didn’t justify his ultra caution on the grounds of being vulnerable.

He told my wife his reasoning for staying masked walking down the street is that as he can smell the vapour from someone using e-cigarettes then the Sar-CoV-2 virus must also be able to enter his airways if infected persons are in the vicinity.

Sounds plausible? Yes, but misguided. I have a background in engineering but I am not an expert on our olfactory system or the dimensions of a virus so a quick search on the internet informed me that we can sense molecules that are around 1 nanometre in diameter; and that a single Sars-Cov-2 virus is approximately 50–200 nanometres in diameter.

Virus being exhaled are attached to water droplets whereas the molecules we smell from someone vaping are in gas form. Furthermore, the pull of gravity dominates the direction of travel of water droplets but gas molecules are essentially in continuous motion in all directions. So in broad terms I would expect to smell vaping odours in the street at least 10 to a 100 times more readily than to breath in someone’s virus-infected water droplets. So a reasonable conclusion from this is that being able to smell vaping is not a sensible reason to wear a mask outside to reduce the risk of catching a virus.

But how many of the ‘nutty’ outdoors mask wearers use the sort of misplaced logic of our window cleaner. We need an education campaign.

194153 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to David McCluskey, 3, #1219 of 1373 🔗

You should see my vape clouds.

194155 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to David McCluskey, 3, #1220 of 1373 🔗

I’d be amazed if he couldn’t still smell the vape with mask on.

194156 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #1221 of 1373 🔗

sure he could and vape goes right through a mask and out the sides

194171 ▶▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Two-Six, 11, #1222 of 1373 🔗

Simple solution, change your window cleaner

Fatima the ballet dancer is looking for something to do

194184 ▶▶▶ David McCluskey, replying to Charlie Blue, #1223 of 1373 🔗

For brevity I didn’t make that point but of course you’re right. The window cleaner knows it as well but he’s obviously not worried about vaping fumes. He’s using being able to smell vaping in the street (whether he, the window cleaner, is masked or unmasked), as proof that virus-laden droplets in the street air could be entering his body.

194169 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to David McCluskey, 2, #1224 of 1373 🔗

An education campaign means teaching physics to people with half your IQ or 1/4 of your motivation. Probably pointless.

194182 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to David McCluskey, #1225 of 1373 🔗

Someone ought to point out the proven disinfectant power of oxygen and UV light.

194185 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to David McCluskey, 5, #1226 of 1373 🔗

Applying a gimp gag to your airways will not stop you catching or spreading the rona, though it may increase the likelihood of both, and it is likely to cause other known health problems (fungal face rot, respiratory infections, mask mouth, to name but three). Beyond that simple point, I would not recommend getting drawn into the theology of whether the little covids are free flying or attached to droplets (probably both). By the time you’ve finished, you’ve conceded that masks are useful in some circumstances (actually very unlikely), and your interlocutor has banked the concession while scrabbling for more talking points to push you further.

Maybe better to remind them of the original stated reason for mandatory masking: to create confidence among the public so they would flood back into shops and save the high street. When that didn’t happen (retail footfall dropped signifantly), the original justification was memory holed. We know our rulers want us masked, but they have given no credible reason why, and none that is likely to coincide with their real motive (which, given the situation in the Summer, was probably just to keep up the panic).

194215 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Ovis, 1, #1227 of 1373 🔗

Would you employ a windowcleaner with fungal face rot?I wouldn’t.

194306 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, 1, #1228 of 1373 🔗

Surely no problem as long as he isn’t licking the windows clean?

194276 ▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to Ovis, 2, #1229 of 1373 🔗

‘the theology of whether the little covids are flying free’: quotation of the day, I’d say

194298 ▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Alethea, 1, #1230 of 1373 🔗

You are very kind. Have a like 🙂

194381 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to David McCluskey, 1, #1231 of 1373 🔗

I have a sneaking suspicion that this whole viral spread phenomenon is down to flatulence. Wouldn’t that be just awesome? Farting spreads Covid!! Mask yo’ ass!!!

194968 ▶▶▶ David McCluskey, replying to Eddie, #1232 of 1373 🔗

And having to prove you’re wearing one on entry to premises …..!

194148 crimsonpirate, replying to crimsonpirate, #1233 of 1373 🔗

explain in plain terms otherwise we will ignore

194157 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to crimsonpirate, 5, #1234 of 1373 🔗

Quite right, cm.

Prof Farrar said an Office for National Statistics (ONS) survey, which he described as the “best data in the country at the moment”, showed that 27,000 people were getting infected each day in England as of 10 October, but he said, given a time lag, it would actually be more than 50,000 by now.

Making it up as they go along to fit their propaganda.

194177 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Ceriain, 17, #1235 of 1373 🔗

I keep waiting for the general public to say:

So let me get this straight: tens of thousands of people are getting infected every single day, and yet almost nobody is dying, and those who are dying are really old and pretty knackered anyway. Sounds like most of us are immune. Let’s go back to work.”

I guess I’m going to be waiting for a little while longer.

194204 ▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Mabel Cow, 3, #1236 of 1373 🔗

Problem is, Mabel, the only people saying that is us, i.e. the un general public. 🙁

194186 ▶▶▶ Pancho the Grey, replying to Ceriain, 2, #1237 of 1373 🔗

They are using the Whittyomics exponent to calculate.

194201 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Pancho the Grey, 4, #1238 of 1373 🔗


194266 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Ceriain, 1, #1239 of 1373 🔗

How convenient that it’s exactly 50,000. Exactly the same number “predicted” by Whitty. What a coincidence.

194321 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Ceriain, 1, #1240 of 1373 🔗

So the best data is so unreliable that the figure needs to be doubled so as to get a reliable estimate?

194159 ▶▶ John Galt, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #1241 of 1373 🔗

It’s just never ending priming. Telling us things before they happen so that people aren’t so shocked when it does happen. Look how early they started doing it:


(No clue why the URL says about mass testing. The headline is from back in February with a warning about shutting down “ENTIRE towns” if coronavirus hits the UK.)

194240 ▶▶▶ Arkansas, replying to John Galt, #1242 of 1373 🔗

No clue why the URL says about mass testing

Quite telling in itself.

194162 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #1243 of 1373 🔗

Funnily enough exactly the same as Canada’s plan (local lockdowns then vaccines early next year)

194218 ▶▶ l835, replying to crimsonpirate, #1244 of 1373 🔗

The only “tough” thing about this Christmas, is that’s what my reply will be to anyone telling me I can’t see my family.

194151 DRW, replying to DRW, 11, #1245 of 1373 🔗

Saw this on Reddit:

comment image

194165 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to DRW, 2, #1246 of 1373 🔗

That was The Flaming Lips concert from several years ago I believe

194216 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Sarigan, #1247 of 1373 🔗

Oh OK, it’s just there was something similar on a recent Carl Vernon video. And the basic point still stands.

194176 NY, replying to NY, 14, #1248 of 1373 🔗

That German ad with the woman giving the finger to “anti-maskers”. You’re wearing a mask. The claim is that this mask offers you solid protection against Covid-19. Then why on earth should you care what other people decide to do? You’re protected. You’re wearing the mask. Leave others alone.

194196 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to NY, 6, #1249 of 1373 🔗

Actually, thinking about it…

194183 Kevin 2, replying to Kevin 2, 7, #1250 of 1373 🔗

Amazingly good investigative work by the Daily Mail on Hunter Biden.
I think we all knew about Burisma and the Ukraine, but more slime here about his dealings with a Kazakhstan oligarch, and a business link with John Kerry’s daughter.
Anything that leads to a US health lobby headed by Scott Atlas and not Fauci serves everyone’s cause. Yes, that means I’m rooting for Trump.


194239 ▶▶ Crazy Times, replying to Kevin 2, 3, #1251 of 1373 🔗

Expect a lot more to come out every single day on this up until the election, Steve Bannon is driving the schedule and release of everything, so I fully expect it to build in intensity every single day to an almighty crescendo.


194297 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Kevin 2, 3, #1252 of 1373 🔗

I used to despise the Mail but it suddenly keeps sneaking up in my estimation!

194310 ▶▶▶ Crazy Times, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1253 of 1373 🔗

It’s generally trash for sure, but they are about the only outlet left that actually still employs some real journalists who like to break a real story.

194190 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1254 of 1373 🔗

The vaccine is on its way, folks! Hip, Hip … Hooray? The Telegraph (paywall):


Forty million coronavirus vaccines could be heading to the UK in the next two and a half months, it has emerged, after US multinational pharmaceutical corporation Pfizer revealed it had started the manufacturing process.

The pharmaceutical giant, which already has “hundreds of thousands” of doses ready at its Belgian production plant, is committed to delivering 100 million in 2020, of which 40 per cent are earmarked for Britain.

The two-dose vaccine could potentially enable 20 million British patients to be inoculated before the New Year.

‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘

Traditional vaccines work by injecting a deactivated or weakened form of the pathogen into the body in order to train it to recognise and defeat the active virus.

However, Both the Oxford and Pfizer vaccines seek to introduce into the body a genetic sequence that prompts human cells to churn out parts of the Sars-Cov-2 virus [what could possibly go wrong], so the body can learn to deal with it that way.

However, see the comments (not behind the paywall).

One helpful commenter posted these links. I especially recommend the Nature article from 2005 ….




194211 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1255 of 1373 🔗

Thanks, Tenchy; I’ll pass, mate. 😉

194219 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Tenchy, #1256 of 1373 🔗

You first, Doris and co!

194241 ▶▶ assoc, replying to Tenchy, 6, #1257 of 1373 🔗

Apparently it is going to be given to health professionals first. I’ll bet they queue up to be given an untested vaccine.

194250 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to assoc, 1, #1258 of 1373 🔗

Two of my family work in the local NHS hospital. They’ve said they won’t take any vax but they’ll surely be under immense pressure

194251 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 6, #1259 of 1373 🔗

Haven’t the Dutch found 87,000 nurses who won’t take it? We need more vocal NHS employees to be brave and speak up. They can’t sack all of them.

194372 ▶▶▶▶▶ Pen, replying to CGL, #1260 of 1373 🔗

More importantly than standing against a vaccine (which might maybe help, if help were needed for this mild virus), they should be speaking out against lockdowns (which have never helped anyone, but killed more than covid, already and produce effects which will keep killing long after covid is forgotten)

194283 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, #1261 of 1373 🔗

Some cracking suggestions for Adam HIll.

194191 captainbeefheart, replying to captainbeefheart, 6, #1262 of 1373 🔗


I’ve seen the light now. All of you GBD lot are just “bad scientists”.

I’ll now go and don a mask and never see my parents ever again.

194202 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to captainbeefheart, 17, #1263 of 1373 🔗

Me too. I want to live in a sterile bubble, never meet friends or family again. Communicate only on line and have no social life. I will wither away like a pale maggot, enjoying nothing ever again in case I get a virus that I have a 99.8% chance of surviving.

194208 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Laura Suckling, 8, #1264 of 1373 🔗

A pale maggot? You mean, like a Grauniad reader?

194210 ▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to annie, 1, #1265 of 1373 🔗


194371 ▶▶▶▶ Pen, replying to annie, #1266 of 1373 🔗

Agree with your despisal of them, even though I used to be one before they went pro-lockdown.

194231 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to captainbeefheart, 15, #1267 of 1373 🔗

Hi Trish,

Thanks for your article that rubbishes any way of anyone ever getting the stab at being human again.

I see that you are a professor of primary care health sciences at Oxford University.

Can you please list the advantages to primary care of:

* Shutting down the entire NHS and making it become the Covid 19 fear mongering service?
* Ignoring 300,000 people who may now die of cancer because you’re happy to let the government commit economic genocide
* Psychologically torturing children by imposing bonkers rules on them (You must wear masks that won’t be effective against a virus that is 1000x smaller than a human hair, forcing them not to see their granny because it will kill them, stopping people from socialising and shutting down national and international travel)


– Another prole

194259 ▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to captainbeefheart, 2, #1268 of 1373 🔗

She may be a brilliant scientists (if you agree with her 100% that is), but what an awful human being.

194274 ▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to captainbeefheart, 2, #1269 of 1373 🔗

Trish Greenhalgh 10:26 PM (41 minutes ago)
comment image comment image
to me
comment image

Auto reply because I’m overwhelmed with messages!

If you’re emailing me about your long covid, I am so sorry I can’t get into correspondence with individuals about this but am trying to help with my research and policy influence . I hope you feel better soon.

[Message clipped]

194238 ▶▶ RickH, replying to captainbeefheart, 5, #1270 of 1373 🔗

If anyone doubts the current role of the Groan as an establishment propaganda sheet – here’s the proof : ‘House Journal of MI6’.

194248 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to captainbeefheart, 4, #1271 of 1373 🔗

So they are talking about shadowy funders of the GBD. That could almost be conspiracy theory territory.

Of course, when the funders of pro lockdown institutions (ICL, Wellcome Trust etc) are questioned, its just tin foil.


194272 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to captainbeefheart, 2, #1272 of 1373 🔗

Je suis un bad scientist.

194572 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to OKUK, #1273 of 1373 🔗

Moi aussi.

194561 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to captainbeefheart, #1274 of 1373 🔗

The guardian now opening hell’s gates. You can only expect to get utter infantile garbage from a rag that grabs funding from Gates then grovels for people to donate their fast disappearing wherewithal to keep it churning out propaganda to hasten the complete demise of the country and the world.

194198 guy153, replying to guy153, 10, #1275 of 1373 🔗

Some entertainingly bad science I came across on Twitter:

“Multi-organ impairment in low-risk individuals with long COVID”

Sounds bad right? They studied 201 individuals with presumed long Covid and found 70% of them had mild organ impairment (in various different organs).

In other words these were people who were initially selected on the basis of: they had probably had Covid, and they had been feeling like crap for the last few months.

The control group they forgot to add to the study is another 201 people who had also been feeling awful for months but hadn’t had Covid.

We also don’t know what the state of any of their organs were before they had Covid.

I believe “long covid” exists but have still seen no evidence to reject the null hypothesis that it’s no different to what you might get with any severe viral infection.

194217 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to guy153, 11, #1276 of 1373 🔗

AFAIK, all viruses leave a small % of survivors feeling like crap.
Previous names for it include ME, yuppie flu etc.
I am puzzled though why no one was previously upset about the known effects of Long Flu.

194229 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Nessimmersion, 6, #1277 of 1373 🔗

Indeed. It’s amazing how various things previously ignored have suddenly gained a focus when it suits.

194262 ▶▶▶ Andy C, replying to Nessimmersion, 8, #1278 of 1373 🔗

That’s right. I had a bout of pneumonia last year and it left me physically weak. I couldn’t walk properly for at least 3 months after and I had to use a walking stick until I could build up my strength again. With that said, unlike these ‘long COVID’ attention-seekers, I worked through it without complaining and expecting the world to stop for me.

194271 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Andy C, 1, #1279 of 1373 🔗


All illnesses take their toll. A virus basically attacks or tries to attack every cell in the body, so it’s not surprising it can take weeks or even months to recover. Sometimes damage is permanent. IIRC flu can cause long term rheumotoid conditions including of the heart ie cardiac disease.

We should expect similar with Covid.

194292 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Andy C, 8, #1280 of 1373 🔗

You know, I was close to the end in 2017 when I was diagnosed with Ulcerative Colitis. Lost a lot of weight quickly and had to have my large intestine removed. So now I have permanent stoma and life is good. God bless the NHS.

During that time I never once posted on social media about my experience, most people I now work with and exercise with (football, running) have no clue I have a stoma bag.

Since Covid has come along I see people I know posting endless updates of their experiences after testing positive. Most no more interesting than high temperatures and feeling tired a lot.

Everytime I think back to 2017 and feel sick.

194300 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 5, #1281 of 1373 🔗

Quite. The media, for propaganda reasons, are focusing on mildly unpleasant symptoms while ignoring people denied surgery for really painful conditions like ulcerative colitis.

Glad to hear you are doing well now. 🙂

194269 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Nessimmersion, 7, #1282 of 1373 🔗

Long Flu would be difficult for the people who control WHO to pronounce.

194324 ▶▶▶▶ AnotherSceptic, replying to OKUK, #1283 of 1373 🔗

Wong Foo…

194244 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to guy153, #1284 of 1373 🔗

A previous report I saw indicted that 80% of the reports of long covid were female, if that is genuinely the case then it begs out for some medical investigation and the development of some alleviating treatments.

194260 ▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #1285 of 1373 🔗

There is a very long history of the medical profession denying, obfuscating and gaslighting women about problems mainly suffered by them: period pains, ( most young girls used to get the ‘take more exercise, try not to focus obsessively, dear, think about something else, you don’t really like being female, do you?’ talk, until along came the pill and hey presto,there was a cure for the crippling pains), endometriosis, miscarriage, ME, and a host of other, often auto immune conditions for which they had no answers.

194275 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #1286 of 1373 🔗

I think chronic fatigue/ME type illness is more common in females anyway.

194333 ▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to A. Contrarian, #1287 of 1373 🔗

Yes. Because female immune system is more reactive. We have same hormones but in different proportions to men, so our bodies work differently.

194245 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to guy153, 5, #1288 of 1373 🔗

I saw a study referred to on the BBC site which supported Long Covid arguments. The study was a survey of people from a Long Covid Facebook support group.

Jesus wept

194302 ▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 3, #1289 of 1373 🔗

Long Covid Facebook group. FFS, these people want putting down.

194253 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to guy153, 3, #1290 of 1373 🔗

Yes, exceedingly bad.
If this study group had acute SARS-CoV-2 infection, why were only 18% hospitalised?
Who clinically assessed them as having acute Covid?
How do they know if the ‘mild organ impairment’ wasn’t there before the Covid infection?
In any group of individuals with a median age of 44, some will have pre-existing mild organ impairment!
If they did suffer from acute Covid, what treatments did they receive?
They noted a correlation between hospitalisation and organ impairment…
Remdesivir is known to cause liver and kidney toxicity…
Perhaps if these subjects had had HCQ available to them, they wouldn’t have experienced ‘acute’ Covid in the first place.
Two authors from Perspectum who sponsored the study, and one received funding from AZN.

194258 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to guy153, 1, #1291 of 1373 🔗

If you randomly selected 201 people off the street, I wonder what proportion would show similar? And what does “mild” impairment mean anyway…

194270 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1292 of 1373 🔗

That would be worth doing as well. 201 people who are fine, 201 with long covid, and 201 with long non-covid.

194265 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to guy153, 3, #1293 of 1373 🔗

Long Covid is just post viral syndrome by another name. It’s not bogus but for the vast majority of people it passes after a few months.

194247 DThom, replying to DThom, 6, #1294 of 1373 🔗

I heard that some stores have installed cctv that closes the doors on customers without masks.
How the hell could this work?
Surely just wait and enter with another customer!

194263 ▶▶ Eddy, replying to DThom, 6, #1295 of 1373 🔗

Walk in backwards.

194264 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to DThom, 3, #1296 of 1373 🔗

Or hook up your mask with your finger as you enter and then take it off once you’re in…

Re shops I came across one that requires the maskless to wait outside in the cold and rain to be served. Clearly illegal discrimination against people with disabilities. Response of our virtue signalling media to such outrageous discrimination? Nothing.

194281 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to DThom, 1, #1297 of 1373 🔗

It wouldn’t surprise me. There’s an unhealthy obsession with surveillance and spy cameras in this country.

194290 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1298 of 1373 🔗

Yep – we think CCTV makes us better people. Really? A culture of rectitude would probably have better results. King Alfred called it right first time round.

194299 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to DThom, 2, #1299 of 1373 🔗

A garden centre near me (mentioned on the comments yesterday) has installed a machine that scans your face on entry and detects if you are not wearing a mask. According to the manager: “this is what our customers want”.

194319 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Now More Than Ever, #1300 of 1373 🔗

They’re welcome to it!!

194339 ▶▶ Danny, replying to DThom, 1, #1301 of 1373 🔗

Or just carry a shopping bag or even your coat and covet your face as you enter. No law that says you have to appear on some random CCTV screen.

194344 ▶▶▶ Danny, replying to Danny, 1, #1302 of 1373 🔗

Sorry, auto correct. Should be cover your face. To covet your own face would be a little narcissistic!

194361 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Danny, #1303 of 1373 🔗

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s face, nor his ox’s or ass’s face.

194273 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 17, #1304 of 1373 🔗

First it was about protecting the NHS and flattening the curve and saving lives.

Next, it was all about R. It must never go above 1! Meaningless and made up though it is.

But cases! Look at all these cases! Test everyone, I mean everyone, right away!

And now… we’ll use real world cases and deaths again if they get high enough. But at the moment they’re not, so we’ll just tell you that there are tens of thousands more cases out there than we know about. Honestly! The computer told us so. Tomorrow we might decide that there are millions infected which means that it’s doubling every 5 minutes and 100,000 will be dying every day by November. You can’t prove that won’t happen, so…


194284 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #1305 of 1373 🔗

Very accurate precis of government statements!

194286 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #1306 of 1373 🔗

Spot on, especially the R bollocks.

194358 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to A. Contrarian, #1307 of 1373 🔗

Christina Pagel was on Sky News last night practically hysterical that we must lock down now because deaths were already baked into the figures. In other words, these people are effectively already dead.

Even if she is right, which I don’t think she is, she just came across as a real life Chicken Licken and not somebody I would consider as particularly rational. I certainly wouldn’t cross her palm with silver if she came up to me in the street asking if I want to buy some lucky heather.

194280 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 9, #1308 of 1373 🔗

Things are moving our way…the Mail on Sunday is clearly getting cold feet about perpetual lockdown lunacy and is looking for an exit strategy. Sir Graham Brady is doing good work pressing for that exit strategy as chair of the 1922 Committee.

Whereas in March the Lockdown lunatics could play on people’s fears freely because we only had limited info on the virus, now that is no longer possible. Essentially this resolves down to v low death numbers (on whatever drfinition) and the Lockdown Lunatics are struggling to explain why they are so low.

194295 ▶▶ RickH, replying to OKUK, 3, #1309 of 1373 🔗

You massively underestimate how much people actually believe the made-up figures.

194313 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to RickH, 10, #1310 of 1373 🔗

These things build and then the dam breaks.

It really doesn’t matter how much people “believe” the figures once politicians, commentators, celebs and all the rest break cover and start saying we need to stop the Lockdown Lunacy.

Support for the lunacy will crumble in days once people are given permission to disbelieve it.

This isn’t a war situation where surrenduring to the enemy means an uncertain future for the masses. Here, stopping the “war” means 95% of the population can return to happy normality.

194315 ▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to RickH, 4, #1311 of 1373 🔗

I heard that 250,000 people are dying every day and the rate DOUBLES every 30 seconds

194317 ▶▶▶▶ AnotherSceptic, replying to captainbeefheart, 3, #1312 of 1373 🔗

Nah…I heard from someone on the street that it’s actually 950,000 dying everyday in the UK & that the rate is QUADRUPLING every second…

We are all doomed…..lol.

194320 ▶▶▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to AnotherSceptic, 3, #1313 of 1373 🔗

I might wear two masks tomorrow then if that’s what’s happening

194329 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ AnotherSceptic, replying to captainbeefheart, #1314 of 1373 🔗


194323 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to captainbeefheart, 4, #1315 of 1373 🔗

Death is “baked in” from the moment we’re born.

194336 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to captainbeefheart, 3, #1316 of 1373 🔗

Shame on you! The actual figure is 250,001. But you didn’t care about that one life did you…?

194282 bucky99, 18, #1317 of 1373 🔗

Well. Things are picking up. Despite the lovely Tier 2 nonsense, most of my mates are now sceptics. Maybe abiding by the daft laws, but all are against them.

Few drinks this evening at our local pub, and pretty much every law was ignored. And most folk correctly describing why the laws are nonsense.

We’ll win this one 👍

194287 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1318 of 1373 🔗

BBC, The Papers, reviewing one paper – can’t remember which – with headlines stating that hospital (ICU) beds in Manchester are “almost full”. Presumably this is based on official government data. No pressure on Burnham then.

194291 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Tenchy, 4, #1319 of 1373 🔗

We have confirmation from the Guardinot…


Must be true.

Is there anyone bored in Manchester who lives near the hospital that could have a wonder round to see how packed it is? I bet you can’t even get a parking space.

194296 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to captainbeefheart, 2, #1320 of 1373 🔗

You can say a hospital is ‘full’ in a few ways.

194330 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 4, #1321 of 1373 🔗

Yep. Like Christmas. “I’m full”. Before you tuck into the Christmas pud, the cheese board and a box of chocolates.

194327 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to captainbeefheart, 2, #1322 of 1373 🔗

I read in a BTL comment this morning (DT I think) that the beds definitely aren’t full.

194328 ▶▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #1323 of 1373 🔗

No but they nearly are – if R doubles again in the next 3 seconds, everyone in the country will die.

194314 ▶▶ annie, replying to Tenchy, 5, #1324 of 1373 🔗

It depends how fat each occupant is. A thin one might leave a bit of room.

194325 ▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to annie, 3, #1325 of 1373 🔗

🙂 Hope I don’t get covid, I probably count as 4 cases

194318 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1326 of 1373 🔗

I read somewhere the other day, Twitter I believe, that full can mean the alloted beds specifically for COVID are nearly all taken up but there’s still capacity for other things.

I’m sure Mike Yeadon also posted a chart showing COVID beds made up a tiny proportion of bed usage in hospitals.

194326 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1327 of 1373 🔗

If the government wants to confess that despite 10 months’ notice it still can’t cope with the number of Covid patients that’s for them to say and for us as an electorate to decide what we think of them at the next available opportunity. Bye bye Boris.

194332 ▶▶ Crazy Times, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1328 of 1373 🔗

The cognitive dissonance is astounding. Pick a year, any year, where this was much different.


194450 ▶▶ bucky99, replying to Tenchy, #1329 of 1373 🔗

As if by magic…

194303 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 3, #1330 of 1373 🔗

Good news, bad news today …

I was told that our local C of E church had its first choir practice since March today ! 🙂

Masks were compulsory. 🙁

194305 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to JohnB, 2, #1331 of 1373 🔗
194331 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to captainbeefheart, 3, #1332 of 1373 🔗

“Blessed are the maskwearers…”

Forgive the blasphemy.

194309 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JohnB, 1, #1333 of 1373 🔗

Lovely communal singing in Liverpool today!

194316 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Cheezilla, #1334 of 1373 🔗

F the Reds and F the Blues?

194312 ▶▶ bucky99, replying to JohnB, #1335 of 1373 🔗

Ffs. How is that possible?

194311 annie, 2, #1336 of 1373 🔗

I think this has been signalled before, but worth a reminder:

Series of ‘Irreverend’ podcasts by The Reverend Thomas Pelham and The Reverend Doctor J.A. Franklin ( beware other podcasters using similar name), discussing lockdown etc. from a Christian viewpoint. Worth a listen even if you’re not a Christian. The latest one is a devastating critique of lockdown policy in both a national and an international perspective. Starts a bit vague and chatty, but soon picks up.

194337 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #1338 of 1373 🔗

Well, if Sir Tom is saying it, it must be right.

194338 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #1339 of 1373 🔗

I feel sorry for that poor old sod. All he wanted to do was help and then became a poster boy of government propaganda. Cue loads of articles saying “Captain Tom (sorry, I mean sir – personally I wouldn’t want that title given some of the other people they’ve given it to) May Have Raised £357 billion-squllion-trillion for the NHS, but he’s not a scientists, so should be ignored”

194382 ▶▶▶ StevieH, replying to captainbeefheart, #1340 of 1373 🔗

I believe his daughter and son-in-law creamed a lot of that off the top through the “charity” the cash was laundered through.

194340 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #1341 of 1373 🔗

Sir Tom? After that he needs to be ennobled! 🙂

194352 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #1342 of 1373 🔗

The argument against targetted protection is that it would be unethical and immoral yet here we are with people like Sir Tom telling us it’s already that way.

194360 ▶▶ Gillian, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 3, #1343 of 1373 🔗

I wonder if Piers Morgan will have Sir Tom on GMB this week to argue the anti-lockdown case with Dr Hilary. Dr Hilary daren’t give National Hero Tom the nasty treatment meted out to poor Piers Corbyn. If The Doctor is horrible to poor Sir Tom, that would really be the turning point for the Nation towards our cause.

194370 ▶▶ Pen, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 3, #1344 of 1373 🔗

Wonder if there would be a way to contact Tom and encourage him to publically support the Great Barrington declaration.

194341 Ceriain, replying to Ceriain, 2, #1345 of 1373 🔗

SAGE document in September: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/925854/S0769_Summary_of_effectiveness_and_harms_of_NPIs.pdf

A “circuit-breaker”, in which a package of stringent non-pharmaceutical interventions is reintroduced for 2-3 weeks should act to reduce R below 1. Over a fortnight’s “break”, two weeks of growth could be
exchanged for two weeks of decay in transmission, assuming good adherence to measures, and no additional increase in contacts before or after the break. If this were as strict and well-adhered to as the restrictions in late May, this could put the epidemic back by approximately 28 days or more. The amount of “time gained” is highly dependent on how quickly the epidemic is growing – the faster the growth or stricter the measures introduced, the more time gained.

If regulations and behaviour then returned to pre-circuit break levels, there would be a return to exponential growth, but from a significantly lower level than would have been the case without the break. The deleterious impact would be maximised if they coincided with school holidays. Multiple
circuit-breaks might be necessary to maintain low levels of incidence.

By which time most of Britain would be eating their neighbours

194350 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Ceriain, 3, #1346 of 1373 🔗

Unfuckingbelievable. All they are telling us is what we already knew: this is a highly infectious virus…but on top of that they want us to cower before it and destroy our economy, our health service, our education system and our culture. Are they doing all that in China? Of course not!

194398 ▶▶▶ Nsklent, replying to OKUK, 2, #1347 of 1373 🔗

If it is highly infectious, why was it downgraded as a HCID in March prior to lockdown, and remains in that status. Pity some journslist has never thrown that little morsel into the discussion.

194342 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1348 of 1373 🔗

Get em while stocks last!

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comment image ?v=1601637922

194346 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Two-Six, 9, #1350 of 1373 🔗

They died for this ! FFS!

194354 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Ceriain, 6, #1351 of 1373 🔗

Absolutely sick and disgusting when you think about the gas attacks in WW1.

If you are sceptically minded, take a look at the British Legion’s s accounts online – you won’t have a clue where all the many millions go (apart from feathering the nests of Legion employees).

194368 ▶▶▶ Pen, replying to Ceriain, 2, #1352 of 1373 🔗

Might be nice to, instead of a mask, have a poppy bearing the label (instead of a leaf): “they died for liberty, we risk this cough to honour their memory”

194353 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1353 of 1373 🔗
194355 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to captainbeefheart, 1, #1354 of 1373 🔗

That’s about it, really.

194357 ▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to captainbeefheart, 12, #1355 of 1373 🔗
194347 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, #1356 of 1373 🔗

I’m sure most have by now seen the Swiss Cheese Defence image attached.

To me this is little more than an elaborate way to boost a weak argument. Think of a salesman trying to sell you something with a fault. They’ll add many layers of “goodness” hoping you won’t notice the fault. After all if it was a car and it still drove well then what’s a little fault when everything else works, it’s still a car right?

194367 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, #1357 of 1373 🔗

Forgot to say, immunity woud replace every layer if it could be shown to be effective. The more people with immunity the less layers you would need.

194348 Telpin, replying to Telpin, #1358 of 1373 🔗

Sorry to ask such an obvious question but I want to send some university emails to Toby and his co editors and explain their context but there doesn’t seem to be an email address for content . Does anyone know what it is.? Thanks

194359 ▶▶▶ Telpin, replying to Ceriain, 1, #1360 of 1373 🔗

Thank you!

194365 ▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Telpin, #1361 of 1373 🔗

You’re welcome. 🙂

194362 Hugh, replying to Hugh, #1362 of 1373 🔗

That’s Altrincham and Sale West in Cheshire, not Altringham and Sale West in Manchester.
Sorry, couldn’t resist it! Still my pick for PM if BJ goes. Not going to happen though….

194376 ▶▶ Crazy Times, replying to Hugh, 1, #1363 of 1373 🔗

Brady certainly seems to be a good man. No obvious globalist ties. He’d be a good man to lead our country.

194363 swedenborg, 1, #1364 of 1373 🔗


Mund-Nasen-Schutz in der Öffentlichkeit: Keine Hinweise für eine Wirksamkeit
Masken nicht Evidence-based

This a very long article going through published evidence. The publication was 18th Aug on line pdf available but unfortunately in German. Analyse ECDC,CDC and WHO guidelines. Highly critical of RKI(German CDC)recommending face masks for the public as there is no evidence it works.

194373 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1365 of 1373 🔗


“Puzzled. People, who judge it unethical to contemplate herd immunity from natural infection, argue it’s uncertain how long immunity lasts. But natural immunity is probably better than vaccine immunity. If natural immunity doesn’t last, then vaccines won’t work either. What then?”
That is a strong argument. Can anyone tell me of a vaccine more effective that a natural immunity?

194393 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1366 of 1373 🔗

There is no vaccine that is superior to natural immunity. Doctors and scientists know this, so they are either experiencing collective amnesia or are beholden to/have investments in big pharma. I vote for the latter explanation.

194421 ▶▶ Sophie123, replying to swedenborg, #1367 of 1373 🔗

shingrix. 95pct reduction in shingles vs one in three lifetime chance if you’ve previously had chicken pox.

194454 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1368 of 1373 🔗

“If natural immunity doesn’t last, then vaccines won’t work either. What then?”
That’s the beauty of vaccines. It’s the gift you have to keep on giving and receiving.
Just like the flu shot..

194375 Crazy Times, 1, #1369 of 1373 🔗

Just watched that Geoff Norcott video, tears are streaming down my face! Bloody brilliant!

194379 Sylvie, replying to Sylvie, 8, #1370 of 1373 🔗

This may seem harsh to those who have yet to experience it. But those who have cared for elderly parents until their deaths will recognise that for many over-80s with dementia, who make up 25% of Covid deaths so far, death is a blessed release. Here are 2 comments in response to a Guardian article by a man who styled himself ‘The reluctant carer,’ although he sounded like a lovely chap. (January 2019):
‘My mother is 92, has Alzheimer’s, acute vascular dementia and is doubly incontinent. Until 8 months ago she was still living at home and I pretty much did everything for her. She did have a care package, but with the best will in the world the carers can only do so much. Finally she went into hospital (again) and they decided she needed “end of life care” in a nursing home . The hospital told us she had less than three weeks to live, that was eight months ago, she’s still hanging on, a vegetable, and I hope to God she doesn’t know how she is. -Jim

‘I feel for you. One of my parents died recently from advanced Alzheimer’s. They proved to be physically resilient despite next to no food or drink, hanging on for longer than thought possible, but with next to no comprehension, speech or any engagement, as well as all the related physical difficulties you describe. The end was peaceful, and (quite frankly) welcome. It was a relief and a release.’
We ought to be letting them die in peace in familiar surroundings, not taking them to hospital to end their days among all the noise and commotion, hooked up to oxygen lines , woken at 6am, and bothered at all hours to be washed, fed, vital signs checked and all the rest of the institutional routine.

194427 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Sylvie, 6, #1371 of 1373 🔗

A touching and thoughtful post. As a society I believe we ought to think about these things a lot more deeply, instead of pushing them aside as we do.

Covid has highlighted our wilful myopia.

It is my understanding, based on what I’ve seen around me, that the covid loneliness has exacerbated the onset of dementias. As a society we’ve pretended we’ve been protecting the elderly: I think we’ve been extremely cruel to them.

What has been presented as virtue is, I believe, in large part cowardice on behalf of middle-aged people. What makes it worse, I think, is that in some respects that fear of covid is in some ways justified: many people who should be in the prime of life are in fact extremely unhealthy owing to life style choices, and thus vulnerable to covid complications.

Not sue you’ll see this post now.

194940 ▶▶ David McCluskey, replying to Sylvie, 2, #1372 of 1373 🔗

Agree 100% particularly your final paragraph to which could be also having to endure the inhumane restrictions being applied in hospitals as a result of the current debacle. My brother’s partner died in hospital on Saturday after a stay of 17 days. If he had not forced them to avoid interfering, his partner’s last days would have been of just 2 loved ones (i.e. the ‘nominated visitors, a status that was not transferable), masked at all times. But he stood up to them and made it plain that he would remove his mask and kiss his dying partner on each arrival and departure, and when a life-long friend wanted to visit to say final a goodbye, she was forbidden to enter the room until my brother emphatically stated that the friend was going to go to the bedside. Human dignity trumps the risk of catching a virus; NHS staff who inflexibly apply the rules are clearly in the wrong job. We need to remember this when the omnishambles is over.

194955 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to David McCluskey, #1373 of 1373 🔗

Our duty as human beings far, far outweighs any obligation to adhere to arbitrary rules.

There is much to be thought about when this omnishambles is over.


256 users made 1,363 comments today.

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41HoMojo370, 4
40PoshPanic8, 29, 3
40IanE15, 10, 8, 7
40Albie1216, 3, 1, 8
40MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG3, 1, 11, 3, 3, 0, 9, 2, 3, 5
40David McCluskey0, 2, 7, 20, 1, 0, 0, 8, 0, 0, 2
39Cheezilla3, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 2, 0, 0, 0, 2, 22, 0, 1, 3, 0, 0, 2, 1
36Che Strazio36
36GiftWrappedKittyCat28, 5, 3
36Ovis16, 8, 3, 3, 5, 1
36BeBopRockSteady1, 5, 0, 0, 0, 2, 0, 6, 1, 1, 4, 8, 5, 2, 1
35dommo3, 0, 1, 2, 20, 0, 0, 0, 5, 1, 3
34Tom Blackburn10, 0, 5, 7, 3, 9
34Rowan4, 3, 4, 4, 1, 2, 1, 2, 2, 1, 1, 1, 2, 4, 1, 1
33mjr1, 2, 1, 2, 0, 1, 9, 5, 2, 0, 0, 5, 4, 1
32Smelly Melly3, 4, 25
32Basileus27, 7, 12, 4
32Silke David72, 2, 7, 0, 3, 1, 6, 0, 1, 1, 2
31NickR1, 4, 18, 6, 2
30James Leary #KBF30
30Bumble16, 14
30John Galt6, 5, 3, 6, 9, 1
30Telpin3, 10, 2, 5, 1, 7, 0, 1, 0, 1
29Suzyv6, 3, 20
27TyLean14, 13
27NorthumbrianNomad6, 17, 4
27JudgeMental115, 8, 3
27JulieR2, 2, 14, 8, 1
26Hoppy Uniatz26
26Nobody202018, 0, 4, 2, 2, 0, 0
25Tyneside Tigress1, 4, 4, 8, 8
25Nessimmersion1, 2, 1, 9, 0, 1, 11
25stefarm5, 1, 0, 4, 1, 4, 1, 3, 6
24John P1, -2, -1, 2, 2, 1, 0, 3, 3, 1, 2, 9, 0, 3
23Liz F8, 0, 11, 4
23Charlie Blue1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 0, 5, 1, 3, 1, 5, 3
22Deirdre Trotman610, 6
22Crazy Times15, 1, 5, 3, 3, 3, 1
22TheBluePill2, 8, 1, 1, 0, 0, 9, 1
22Alethea1, 2, 3, 3, 3, 2, 4, 1, 0, 1, 2
21Binra4, 3, 4, 1, 0, 0, 3, 3, 3
21Carrie0, 1, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1, 4, 5, 4, 1
20Angryphon of Tunbridge Wells20
20Judy Watson20
20Gillian17, 3
19arfurmo5, 2, 5, 7
19Cristi.Neagu8, 5, 2, 2, 2, 0
19Lisa from Toronto5, 2, 2, 4, 1, 2, 0, 1, 2
18maggie may18
18Laura Suckling17, 1
18Shep2, 16
18bucky99180, 0
18PhilipF4, 10, 4
17James Marker17
17David Grimbleby14, 1, 2
17Mr Dee1, 0, 2, 1, 13
17stefarm4, 12, 0, 0, 1
17Kevin 241, 1, 7, 3, 1
17PastImperfect5, 5, 2, 4, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0
16Censored Dog16
16Rosie1, 2, 6, 4, 1, 2
15Harry hopkins15
15Templeton14, 1
14Linda B10, 4
14p020990037, 0, 4, 1, 2
14Tim Bidie3, 4, 1, 4, 2
14Lili4, 2, 1, 6, 1, 0
12Sylvie3, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 8
11Voz 0db11
11guy15310, 1
11Marialta7, 4
11Emily Tock62, 3
11Jo3, 2, 6, 0
10DeepBlueYonder2, 8
10ianric2, 8
10ProfCliveH8, 2
10Now More Than Ever6, 1, 1, 2
9Judith Day9
9Andy C1, 8
9Jane in France4, 5
9Tee Ell4, 5
9AN other lockdown sceptic0, 4, 5
9helen31, 4, 1
9Ruth Sharpe4, 2, 1, 2
9TJN0, 3, 6, 0
8Mark H8
8DomW5, 2, 1
8l8358, 0, 0
8Sam Vimes2, 2, 1, 3
8wat tyler2, 2, 4, 0
6Catherine Kenny6
6Adam5, 1
6snippet6, 0
6stevie1191, 2, 2, 1
6Tenchy1, 2, 0, 1, 1, 1
5Al T5
5AllieT4, 1
5Monty Bodkin4, 1
5Nsklent3, 2
5RichardJames3, 2
5Sally2, 3
5Country Mumkin2, 1, 2
5Pen0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 3, 2
4Awkward Git4
4Bill Hickling4
4DJ Dod4
4Girl down Under4
4Richard Pinch4, 0
4steve_w3, 1
4godowneasy2, 0, 2
4Hill Street Bluez1, 1, 2
4Pancho the Grey0, 1, 1, 2
4Yawnyaman0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 1
3Charles W3
3Ethelred the Unready3
3Humanity First3
3GLT0, 3
3Hester2, 1
3Iansn0, 3
3watashi1, 2
2A leaf2
2Bill h2
2jim j2
2Richard Martin2
2Steve Jones2
2Danny1, 1
2Ned of the Hills0, 0, 2
1Dame Lynet1
1John Stone1
1Londo Mollari1
1Old Normal1
1Paul M1
1Steven Robinson1
1Eddie0, 1
1stevie1, 0
1Tone0, 1
0Jeremy Harris0
0Tee Ell0
0Toby Pierides0
0Arkansas0, 0
0Ewan Duffy0, 0
0Edward0, 0, 0
0StevieH0, 0, 0