2020-10-19

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/10/19/latest-news-167/
Published2020-10-19T01:26:08
Last updated2020-10-19T14:02:29
Scraped2020-12-20T20:18:08
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194400 Matt The Cat, 12, #1 of 1839 🔗

The Cat pounces!!

194402 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 15, #2 of 1839 🔗

Aging With Dignity.
No idea how big this group is but this appeared in my Google news feed this morning

194404 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 2, #3 of 1839 🔗

Pt 2

195767 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to karenovirus, 2, #4 of 1839 🔗

Hi L

Dr Matt Strauss says public health “was not in favour” of lockdowns at the beginning of the coronavirus pandemic, telling Dan Wootton “it was kind of outraged social media mobs that forced their hand a little bit.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcTKeEvxv0Q

194405 chaos, replying to chaos, -25, #5 of 1839 🔗

Since The Great Reset seems keen to divide and conquer whilst at the same time talking about pulling together and uniting and equalizing.. it pounced on George Floyd to push BLM.. it allowed XR protests..

I’m not saying this ‘beheading’ didn’t take place. But it sure seems possible it was contrived.. it seems convenient. Perhaps a false flag. Like the Nawal tusk. Improbable maybe. Like 911. Improbable definitely.

194407 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to chaos, 2, #6 of 1839 🔗

Assuming it did happen, while a tragedy for the victim and his family the press and politicians have wildly overreacted to the crime of a few nutters.
How many other people were murdered in France that day whose death is not worldwide news ?

20th Century: the two main causes of unnatural death, by far.
Death caused by other peoples governments ie war.
Death by your own government ie internal repression.

Solution = Ban Governments.

194462 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to karenovirus, 3, #7 of 1839 🔗

Hardly “a few nutters.” Say that to anyone who fought in Iraq.

194533 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Jones, replying to RyanM, 3, #8 of 1839 🔗

??? none of the 911 terrorists came from Iraq. They hailed from Saudi Arabia , United Arab Emirates , Lebanon , and Egypt .


196160 ▶▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Steve Jones, #9 of 1839 🔗

I believe she was referring to the beheading. I am not suggesting that the murderer came from Iraq. The reason I referenced Iraq is because people who have experience with Islamic Terrorists would get a pretty big chuckle (and not in a “ha ha” sort of way) out of the suggestion that this was just “one nutter.” Considering your own experiences w/ Islamic Terrorism (attacks, rapes, kidnappings, etc…) in the UK, I’m a bit surprised to see that minimized here.

194592 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to RyanM, 6, #10 of 1839 🔗

If you illegally invade a sovereign State, you should expect its people to respond with violence.

196154 ▶▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Ewan Duffy, #11 of 1839 🔗

Illegally? In that sense, I suppose all war is illegal… then again, so is terrorism.

194985 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to RyanM, 1, #12 of 1839 🔗

I was referring to the beheading incident only, correction ‘one nutter’.

194477 ▶▶▶ Marialta, replying to karenovirus, 12, #13 of 1839 🔗

How can you say the press have overreacted? Brendan O’Neil has repeatedly pointed out in Spiked and on Insta, that normal press response to this type of Islamist attack is to light a candle or comment on the attacker’s poor mental health.

194485 ▶▶▶▶ chaos, replying to Marialta, 1, #14 of 1839 🔗

Candles yes.. but rarely mental health is used/mentioned in France.

194523 ▶▶▶ GCarty80, replying to karenovirus, #15 of 1839 🔗

Anarchy doesn’t work because some people are naturally more willing and able to wield power over others.

194887 ▶▶▶ Jane in France, replying to karenovirus, 5, #16 of 1839 🔗

I think this happened all right. The murderer was a young Caucasian Muslim from Chechnya whose family had been granted asylum in France years ago. He was known for “crimes of delinquence” but as far as the authorities were aware, he was not an Islamic radical. No doubt we’ll learn more in the next few days.

194906 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Jane in France, 1, #17 of 1839 🔗

The Chechens have form in this kind of brutal murder:
“The 1998 abduction of foreign engineers took place when four United Kingdom-based specialists were seized by unidentified Chechen gunmen in Grozny, the capital of the unrecognized secessionist Chechen Republic of Ichkeria (ChRI). After more than two months in captivity, all four men were found brutally murdered, reportedly following a failed rescue bid. As of 2009, no one has been tried in this case.”
If I remember correctly, the men were beheaded after being starved and tortured, and their bodies dumped.

194416 ▶▶ annie, replying to chaos, 25, #18 of 1839 🔗

As the Irreverends pointed out in their Friday podcast, BLM don’t care about real black lives. People in Africa are brung plunged into dire poverty, and in some places actual starvation, as a direct and/or indirect consequence of lockdown policies. IMO, in fact, you could argue that lockdowns are racist.
While BLM shriek because an eighteenth-century philosopher once wrote an allegedly racist footnote.

194912 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to annie, 4, #19 of 1839 🔗

BLM is about undermining America and capitalism, like most far left organisations.
Much of the money raised in the name of BLM has been siphoned off to the Democrats and Biden presidential campaign.

194419 ▶▶ Masqueless, replying to chaos, 42, #20 of 1839 🔗

I couldn’t disagree more – to me the killing of Samuel Paty for teaching freedom of speech to his students and the lead-up complaints from parents for doing this in a country that heralded the enlightenment is another wake-up call for us to have a grown up discussion about how we preserve freedom of speech and avoid totalitarianism in the west. IMV it’s the biggest battle of our time. And this conspiracy theory stuff unfortunately obfuscates and waters down the real protest that we should be engaged in.

194448 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Masqueless, 6, #21 of 1839 🔗

Noble thought Stew but freedom of speech in Europe was abandoned when every single newspaper of note declined to reprint the Danish Mohammed cartoons out of fear.

194772 ▶▶▶▶ GCarty80, replying to karenovirus, #22 of 1839 🔗

What makes you so sure it was about fear of terrorists rather than just not wanting to be arseholes?

194923 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to GCarty80, 7, #23 of 1839 🔗

Why should printing cartoons that mock all sides and politicians make someone an ar**hole?? Nothing should be beyond being mocked. All totalitarians hate being mocked because it undermines their power, and Islam is no different. If people laugh at them, they can’t control people through fear.

194489 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to Masqueless, 8, #24 of 1839 🔗

Some conspiracies are true.

194926 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to chaos, 1, #25 of 1839 🔗

But not all of them.

194659 ▶▶ peter, replying to chaos, 4, #26 of 1839 🔗

People on this site can’t stomach media fakery even though it’s the driving force behind the covid hoax.

194928 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to peter, 3, #27 of 1839 🔗

Well, yes. We hate being lied to.

194406 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 28, #28 of 1839 🔗

Never mind the Bollocks

Loca live online
“A doctor says the four main hospitals are filling up, the Nightingale and community wards are being readied for Covid action again.
The GP warns of a Second Wave of Coronovirus which he compares to a Tsunami.
The wave is coming fast and we should take action so I felt the need to share a video of the Thailand Tsunami 🌊 that Killed 230,000 in 2004 which starts with them shouting

‘it’s coming again ❗

The Doctor said he only knew of one Covid death in the town”.

Yeah, ramp that fear up Doc.

194460 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to karenovirus, 14, #29 of 1839 🔗

Why do they keep bringing up the Nightingales? The one in Cardiff is already being dismantled as we speak.

194894 ▶▶▶ Jane in France, replying to Bart Simpson, 13, #30 of 1839 🔗

The one in Scotland is also being dismantled. When I pointed this out in a comment in the National, I was told that there was no such thing as a Nightingale Hospital in Scotland – it was the Louisa Jordan hospital, named after some Scottish woman. Yes, but why make a fuss over the naming of a hospital if it doesn’t have any patients? I’m afraid that’s the level of debate I’m up against when I try to bring some sense to the comment section in the National.

194999 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Jane in France, 3, #31 of 1839 🔗

Yeah have heard of that one. Its in Glasgow isn’t it? And from what I’ve heard it never had any patients at all.

195602 ▶▶▶ Coronabonus, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #32 of 1839 🔗

Although another temporary wing is being built at the Grange Hospital at a cost of £33million!

194478 ▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to karenovirus, 31, #33 of 1839 🔗

He also said that people should wear masks outside and that asthma and COPD were no excuse. Sadly, I think the reputation of the medical profession is going to be severely damaged after this, as a result of these nutters. We will be back to the old pre NHS days when people believed that it was safer to stay away from doctors and out of hospital.

194488 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Caroline Watson, 23, #34 of 1839 🔗

I would never trust a doctor after this and would refuse to see them again ever. This crisis has shown up the profession for who they truly are.

Whatever happened to “first do no harm?”

194538 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Jones, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #35 of 1839 🔗

surely it should be first: do some good FFS!

195812 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #36 of 1839 🔗

I agree, Bart. I don’t intend to voluntarily see a doctor again.

194576 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Caroline Watson, 6, #37 of 1839 🔗

The way things are being set up you will find it very hard to see a doctor and to get into hospital

194621 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 3, #38 of 1839 🔗

You can almost believe this is their purpose, to kill off as many people as they can.

194674 ▶▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Bella Donna, #39 of 1839 🔗

Georgia Guidestones?

195307 ▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Bella Donna, 6, #40 of 1839 🔗

My experience is that the NHS has always been focussed on triage. A few people get world-beating treatment but many are considered not to deserve proper diagnosis or adequate treatment.

First you have to get past the receptionist to see a GP, then if you are lucky you can get referred to a specialist, who mostly seem to know what they are doing.

A consultant where I used to live told me they were really pissed off with the local “health centre” causing msdiagnoses, missed diagnoses and late diagnoses. In the end a couple of young hospital doctors started an alternative GP practice and the difference was like chalk and cheese. He advised me to join quickly before their lists got full.

Didn’t help the people who were fobbed off with excuses, told their symptoms were psychosomatic or hypochondria, and when the cancer or heart disease was finally diagnosed it was too late. I have lots more stories like that which way outnumber the successes.

195471 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to chris c, 4, #41 of 1839 🔗

Haha getting past the receptionist can often be the most difficult stage…

195962 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to chris c, 2, #42 of 1839 🔗

Indeed, I’m one of those stories. Permanently disabled, because not only did they fob me off when I needed medical attention… they fucking poisioned me at the same time. (And yes, there’s multiple investigations going on, though I expect nothing will come of it).

Never ever ever trust the NHS protocol. As far as I’m concerned, they exist to murder as many people as they can.

I will add though, I finally have a good GP, and I’m pretty grateful for that, but he is the exception, not the rule!

196246 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to chris c, 1, #43 of 1839 🔗

That’s because they are paid by the number of patients on their books rather than what they do for you (except numerous bonus schemes like statins and vaccines)

194617 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Caroline Watson, 13, #44 of 1839 🔗

When I look back on my childhood when doctors wore white coats and stethoscopes and nurses were immaculately groomed with starched uniforms black tights and laced up shoes the hospitals were spotlessly cleaned and smelled of disinfectant and Matron ruled the wards, oh how times have changed and not for the better!

194864 ▶▶▶▶ Mutineer, replying to Bella Donna, 7, #45 of 1839 🔗

I worked for the NHS for many years and was horrified at the waste, theft (almost considered a perk of the job), corruption and fraud. You could double the funding and most would leave via the back door. I believe they had their debts cancelled so what on earth are they spending their funding now because it certainly isn’t being spent on patients. In my area the Heath Centre is firmly locked, despite it having 3 floors and plenty of room for distancing. Even getting a GP to phone you can take 2 weeks of effort. All cancer checks and blood tests cancelled. The only thing you can enter the hallowed ground to have is a flu jab (no thanks) because they are paid extra to do them.

194882 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Mutineer, 2, #46 of 1839 🔗

Many heart felt complaints here about locked surgeries and withdrawal of services. Mine continues to function, albeit no entry without appointment. Certainly not locked up. I’m wondering if this is worse in big cities, particular area of the country? Or is it when a GP practice operates from 2 or more sites and has closed one of them, maybe premises unsuitable for the onerous one- way systems they’re supposed to observe? Have people complained to the CCG, what answers are they getting?

195110 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mutineer, replying to Sylvie, 5, #47 of 1839 🔗

My GP is behind locked doors. Even getting anyone to answer the phone can take several days. Then an unqualified receptionist quizzes you on your problem and then she decides if you warrant a call back, That can take up to 2 weeks. I wrote to my MP, Sajid Javid, and he completely ignored every question I asked and just told me to ring my GP or NHS 111 and he assured me (in a very badly executed ‘cut and paste’ letter with some text missing from paragraphs) that they ‘are taking care of us’. I was so annoyed I scrawled my opinions on his letter, put it back in an envelope and wrote ‘return to sender’ on the envelope and sent it back to him.

194869 ▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #48 of 1839 🔗

Not for the better? Pure romantic nostalgia. Male life expectancy – ‘By the 1950s it had risen to about 65. Things improved more slowly in the late 20th century but by 1971 life expectancy for a man in Britain was 68. For a woman it was 72. In 2015 life expectancy was 79 for a man in the UK and 83 for a woman’.

195972 ▶▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Sylvie, 1, #49 of 1839 🔗

How life expectancy is counted matters. The rise in life expectancy is often due to reduced child mortality.

196247 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to TyLean, 1, #50 of 1839 🔗

Plus fewer deaths from war and industrial disease.

195477 ▶▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #51 of 1839 🔗

It’s hard to tell the difference between the nurses and the cleaners these days. My mum a retired nurse of 25 years despairs as to how far we have fallen from the matron days.

195876 ▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Caroline Watson, 1, #52 of 1839 🔗

I’ve believed in staying away from doctors and out of hospital for the past 10 years, since I moved to a different part of the country. I didn’t register with a new NHS doctor so haven’t had one since I moved. My dentist is private.

196227 ▶▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to Caroline Watson, 1, #53 of 1839 🔗

That’s disgusting. Does he want hospitals full of asthma and COPD patients. A friend with COPD was told at a hospital that wearing a mask was dangerous for her.

194409 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 145, #54 of 1839 🔗

From day one my local pub complied with every stupid rule that was heaped on them

The initial forced closure

Then when they reopened; one way systems, track and trace, hand gunk etc

Then in recent weeks the final humiliation of face nappies and being zapped with a thermometer on entry

The reward for all this jumping through hoops? Next Friday the dictatorship will force them to close again

This time they will not reopen

I stopped going at the face nappy stage

This week I was speaking to the landlady in the street. She told me how one of the elderly customers who lives on his own wept when he was allowed back in the pub after the first lockdown

Yes, he fucking wept, and now they are going to do it to him again

He will most probably commit suicide this time around

So where did all this compliance and obeying the law get them?

194417 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Cecil B, 96, #55 of 1839 🔗

Yes, I think this is a problem for the zealots, now. It is obvious that six months of sacrifice has clearly achieved nothing . People can now see that extending the measures further can only achieve the same thing. It’s a shame they actually had to go through the first six months before working that out, of course.

194426 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Barney McGrew, 62, #56 of 1839 🔗

Utterly totally agree.
Virtually every country in the world has imposed varying degrees of draconian lockdown measures and achieved F A and has probably make the situation far worse, even the most extreme lockdown fanatics know this.
HERD IMMUNITY IS THE ONLY WAY.

194526 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Barney McGrew, 30, #57 of 1839 🔗

The Great War was supposed to be over by Christmas.
And we all know how that turned out. Four years of carnage.
This isn’t the first (nor sadly the last) time people are led down a very bad road by their national leaders.

194682 ▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to stewart, 13, #58 of 1839 🔗

Th carnage will be much greater this time unless we find a way of taking back government from the thugs.

195547 ▶▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to stewart, 5, #59 of 1839 🔗

Can’t locate where I read this, maybe I got it wrong, but I think some group of researchers had calculated there were presently 50,000 infected persons – and the numbers are doubling every week! At that rate it will be all be over by Christmas – because we’ll all have got it!

194437 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Cecil B, 46, #60 of 1839 🔗

So where did all this compliance and obeying the law get them? – it’s got us and them nowhere as circuit breakers, tier 1,2,3 crap was on the agenda from day 1, following the rules has been pointless, very few people could see it coming and thought donning a mask would save them from the tyranny to come. Masks are a symbol of compliance and torture. Bit late now

194445 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, 63, #61 of 1839 🔗

Give way to a bully and he’ll bully you worse.
My mum told me that when I was five.

194565 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to annie, 9, #62 of 1839 🔗

Mine did too!

194446 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Cecil B, 48, #63 of 1839 🔗

I hate the people who collude with this, they are complicit with many deaths, deaths due to the restrictions.

They have blood on their hands.

The mask-wearers.

They are allowing this to happen.

194483 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cecil B, 33, #64 of 1839 🔗

Unfortunately you will still get people who think that others are selfish and if only they obeyed the rules it will be over. It hasn’t sunk into their brains that lockdowns, social distancing, masks, T&Ts and the like don’t work and cause more problems than they solve.

They don’t realise that they have blood on their hands through their slavish adherence to the rules.

They’re so far gone that I think the only way they will wake up are through the following:

  • redundancies
  • bankruptcies
  • illnesses then find that they can’t see a doctor or get treatment
  • can’t visit parents or grandparents
  • tax raids on pensions and savings
  • fall in value of savings and pensions
  • mum & dad can’t bail them out

Anything else I’ve missed?

194501 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Bart Simpson, 12, #65 of 1839 🔗

The banks close, power cuts, and starvation

194601 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cecil B, 11, #66 of 1839 🔗

Funny thing is some of the lockdownistas I know lived through the winter of discontent. Looks like they’ve forgotten that.

195327 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Bart Simpson, 9, #67 of 1839 🔗

This is far,far worse than the winter of discontent.

195765 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #68 of 1839 🔗

That is so very true. It’s not dawned on most and even some of those who comment on this site, that we are now all in a fight for very lives. The whole lockstep global Covid fiasco is about massive depopulation and anyone with a half clear head should be able to see that by now. The main culling tool will be the unlicensed, hardly tested, liability free and highly experimental vaccines and will be made compulsory, if they think they can get away with it.

194704 ▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Cecil B, 4, #69 of 1839 🔗

Starvation in an unheated quarantine camp?

195746 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Cecil B, 1, #70 of 1839 🔗

And hyperinflation.

194524 ▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Bart Simpson, 14, #71 of 1839 🔗

Being stuffed into an old folks home and never being allowed to see your relatives. By then, the penny will drop and they’ll realise it is too late.

194597 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to captainbeefheart, 5, #72 of 1839 🔗

Yep. Or in the case of what Peter Hitchens have written, a minor illness that’s not caught before its too late and the doctors can’t do anything.

194531 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Bart Simpson, 10, #73 of 1839 🔗

It will have to be some combination of those BUT not too gradually. Otherwise, people will just adapt. There has to be an element of shock to the system that triggers a revolt.

194594 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to stewart, 7, #74 of 1839 🔗

Agree. I think the end of furlough could trigger a revolt given the forecast is now that several thousands of jobs will go in the run up to Christmas.

And don’t forget too the businesses that will shut and go bankrupt.

195331 ▶▶▶ pmdl, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #75 of 1839 🔗

So true. It was like the last recession, only those personally affected understood the true hardship it caused.

194586 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Cecil B, 8, #76 of 1839 🔗

The pubs in Tier 2 areas have been given a choice.They either enforce the rules and die or they go down the route of the Liverpool gym owner.

194937 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 5, #77 of 1839 🔗

Unfortunately, they are too few in number to make a difference if they defy the lockdown rules. They’re too easy to pick off by the authorities and made examples of.

194939 ▶▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Lms23, 5, #78 of 1839 🔗

There are about 3 police cars and one meat waggon allocated to the area I live. There are way more than 3 pubs

194997 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to captainbeefheart, 4, #79 of 1839 🔗

They would only have to report them to the Council who would use it to revoke their licence.

195285 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to karenovirus, 1, #80 of 1839 🔗

True 🙁

194591 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Cecil B, 7, #81 of 1839 🔗

The English closure comes on the same day Scottish pubs are due to reunopen after two weeks of closure presently. At least it will be blatantly clear on the day they are closed in England it will be much longer than the two weeks. I wonder how many will realise the game is up their livelilhoods are gone.

194640 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Basics, 23, #82 of 1839 🔗

I believe its a deliberate attack on pubs which is seen as part of the British way of life.

194705 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Bella Donna, 16, #83 of 1839 🔗

Hard to disagree with this. Given the total lack of evidence that pubs and restaurants are driving transmission, you really do have to question the motivation.

194710 ▶▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to matt, 3, #84 of 1839 🔗

Who need evidence?

194714 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to PastImperfect, 2, #85 of 1839 🔗

Well, quite.

194954 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ dickyboy, replying to PastImperfect, 3, #86 of 1839 🔗

its commonsensical.

195000 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bella Donna, 7, #87 of 1839 🔗

As previously mentioned the anti-alcohol crowd are using lockdown to further their agenda.

195614 ▶▶▶▶▶ ianric, replying to karenovirus, 6, #88 of 1839 🔗

The dangers of lockdown is that they can be used to get rid of things people don’t like. If people are anti alcohol, lockdowns can be used to get rid of pubs. I have argued that there is an element of social engineering in lockdown measures and one aim is to isolate people from each other and prevent people interacting with each other. One way of achieving this is to destroy businesses where people socialise such as pubs. It is blatantly obvious pubs have been heavily targeted. Look at the measures imposed on pubs.

  • Forced to spend months closed in lockdowns.
  • Forced to close at 10.00 pm depriving pubs of income.
  • When initially allowed to open, pubs could only offer outdoor service which meant less income.
  • Rules were imposed on how many could go to pubs and with who.
  • Local lockdown rules which prevents people travelling to pubs outside their areas.
  • Imposing stupid rules and closing them if they don’t follow them.

One theory behind lockdown is to ensure big companies have a monopoly. If pubs go bust, supermarkets and online sellers get increased alcohol sales.

195319 ▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Bella Donna, 4, #89 of 1839 🔗

We’d previously lost a lot of village pubs. The ones that remained concentrated on food, especially local stuff, and real ale. I suspect a lot of those that remain will also close in due course.

194641 ▶▶ steve, replying to Cecil B, 21, #90 of 1839 🔗

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6202103436001

Sky news Australia

18/10/2020|9min
Sky News host Rowan Dean says people cannot be surprised when the same “authoritarian elitists” who impose lockdowns in order to reach ‘COVID normal,’ enforce the same drastic restrictions to reduce carbon dioxide.

Mr Dean pointed to the ‘Great Reset’ a supported by the IMF, the World Economic Forum, and the UN and aims to “by their own admission” use the tools of COVID suppression and adapt them to the “so-called crisis of climate change”.

“By their own admission the Great Reset aims to use all the tools of Covid suppression such as lockdowns, curfews and enforced business closures and adapt them to the so-called ‘crisis’ of climate change,”

Mr Dean said. “Remember, this isn’t me saying that we are going to switch from the COVID crisis to the climate crisis, this is them saying it, again and again and again.

194941 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to steve, 10, #91 of 1839 🔗

And every time any member of the public says this, e.g. by text or call to a radio station, they’re dismissed out of hand. Even stations like Talk Radio, who are mainly very sceptical, will not engage with this.
As you posted “this is them saying it, again and again and again.”
But we’re dismissed as conspiracy theorists.

194884 ▶▶ Neil Hartley, replying to Cecil B, 7, #92 of 1839 🔗

When did a thermometer n entry become a government rule/law? Seen hairdressers do it, dentists to, but is it a rule/law r the decision of the business?

196205 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Neil Hartley, 2, #93 of 1839 🔗

It isn’t a legal obligation, these businesses are just collaborating with the enemy.

195271 ▶▶ Linda B, replying to Cecil B, 9, #94 of 1839 🔗

Johnson and Hancock have blood on their hands – How do they live with themselves. This Poor elderly man – I imagine one of thousands —The People, business’s en masse need to just say NO we are not doing this.. Sadly after looking a them on my high st today pulling bit of rag out of their pockets and bags to put on their faces just to enter the coffee shop then take them off when they sat down – I cannot see them rebelling anytime soon….and people like this elderly gentleman will be isolated, lonely and obviously very depressed…… I am heartbroken to read about it.

195675 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Cecil B, 6, #95 of 1839 🔗

Yes indeed, some owners and managers of pubs deserve everything that’s coming to them by way of bankruptcy and redundancy. One of the biggest pubs, near home, had all its staff in face masks from the day it reopened in June after the initial disastrous lockdown. I rarely went there after that and found somewhere else a little less intimidating. With the latest mask stupidity and ten o’clock curfew I have stayed away from all of these dens of stupidity and humiliation. They all so very much deserve to go broke.

194410 TheFSG, replying to TheFSG, 18, #96 of 1839 🔗

Re ICU beds in Manchester

Even the Guardian article contains this…

A spokesperson for the NHS in Greater Manchester said: “We are monitoring the situation with our hospital admissions, overall beds and ICU beds very, very closely. It’s not unusual for 80-85% of ICU beds to be in use at this time of year and our hospitals work together if there are particular pressures in any one area, to ensure the best care for patients who need the high level of support ICU provides, both for Covid and for other reasons.”

194420 ▶▶ matt, replying to TheFSG, 26, #97 of 1839 🔗

I remember reading an article in (probably) The Spectator just as this whole nonsense was beginning to kick off, around early March. It mentioned that ICU capacity was around 4,000 and ran at about 80% in normal times. I thought to myself “that sounds about right”. If you’re running at much lower than 80%, you’re wasting resources. If I’m standard times you’re running at 90%, you have too little surge capacity.

In other words, the situation is that the hospitals are hardly any more full than they normally would be in the summer, let alone the respiratory disease season.

194422 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to TheFSG, 22, #98 of 1839 🔗

The Guardian might be waking up. They published this letter on Friday 16th Oct. despite a general anti herd immunity line.

Professor Jeremy Dale takes issue with Matt Hancocks views on herd immunity.

“It is depressing that we have a Health Secretary who does not understand let alone understand herd immunity . . .

(Goes on to explain how it works for malaria, the flu and particularly measles)

By wrongly suggesting that herd immunity is impossible for measles Matt Hancock has shot himself, and us, in the foot.
L
Prof Jeremy Dale
Glossop
Derbyshire.”

194441 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to karenovirus, 9, #99 of 1839 🔗

The guardian’s not waking up. Just allowing the odd article to counter the propaganda.

195069 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to chaos, 1, #100 of 1839 🔗

Yes, just like the free Metro rag, in which the letters page usually has about ten pro-lockdown contributions to every one against.

195181 ▶▶▶▶ LS99, replying to chaos, 1, #101 of 1839 🔗

Yes, The Guardian and all MSM – they’re gas lighting us.

194550 ▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to karenovirus, 18, #102 of 1839 🔗

The Guardian is basically turned itno a Gb version of Pravda..I used to subscribe to the Guardian, back in he halcyon days where it still had journalism. Even before this whole Plandemic it was all just oppressions, patriarchy, man are the worst, feminism, more feminism, did we write anything about feminism?, Trump is a nazi, brexiters are all scumm..so a delightful piece of shit..Now it’s even worse. For me , if it’s in the Guardian, it’s worse than fake news. Its UBER WOKE FAKE NEWS!

194713 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Thomas_E, 5, #103 of 1839 🔗

The Guardian is POISON. Avoid it.

195074 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Thomas_E, 3, #104 of 1839 🔗

Quite a good jazz critic, John Fordham – does he still contribute? Other than him it’s largely unreadable for anyone sane.

195464 ▶▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to Thomas_E, 4, #105 of 1839 🔗

Agreed. A decade ago it was my go to for news of a UK focus and now I can’t even spend few minutes on their front page. The wokness is unbearable!!

195051 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, #106 of 1839 🔗

Oops ‘does not underestimate let alone believe in’.

194425 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to TheFSG, 17, #107 of 1839 🔗

The Guardian report says that 211 of 257 critical care beds in Manchester are occupied. The population of Manchester is 2,820,000, instead of spending all his efforts trying to lever more cash for a lockdown why is the Mayor not berating the local NHS for not getting better organised? With a budget of £129 billion one would have thought that NHS England could re-deploy a few resources and establish a few more critical care facilities.
211 critical care patients represents 0.0075% of the Manchester population, if that is overwhelming the NHS then I want my £129 billion money back!

194623 ▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #108 of 1839 🔗

The whole time hundreds of billions should have gone on future proofing the NHS by permanently expanding and sorting out how to get more staff. But no, that would be sensible!

194654 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #109 of 1839 🔗

I wonder how many of the people currently occupying ICU beds would in previous times have been considered beyond intervention and would have been given palliative care only.

Is a positive test for SARS-CoV-2 now a golden ticket to an ICU bed?

194746 ▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Mabel Cow, 4, #110 of 1839 🔗

The median age for entry into a critical care bed with COVID19 is 62 . Half of all patients are in the range 51-70. 9/10 of these patients are able to live without daily assistance and only 1/10 are classed as having very severe comorbidities. That is not old compared with normal life expectancy.

https://www.icnarc.org/DataServices/Attachments/Download/8fee8e2a-d50f-eb11-912b-00505601089b

Table 1.

194787 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to djaustin, 2, #111 of 1839 🔗

That’s a comprehensive report, thanks!

INARC make the ONS look rather amateurish in comparison.

194820 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Mabel Cow, 3, #112 of 1839 🔗

Don’t believe what you hear about the ONS. They are meticulous and thorough. The methods they use and standards they adhere to are first rate. How others choose to interpret their work is another matter entirely! Always go to the source. The responsible statistician normally adds a comment on any report of note.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/

195053 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to djaustin, 2, #113 of 1839 🔗

I was referring more to their actual report output, rather than their methods. I’ve been a spreadsheet jockey for 25 years and I find their reports messy and hard to use.

195079 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Mabel Cow, 2, #114 of 1839 🔗

That’s a fair point. The datasets they use are made into XL sheets for public release and consumption. That is a pain to be honest!

194411 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 32, #115 of 1839 🔗

Congratulations to the organisers of the local protests in Croydon 🎖 and Hull
‘If it saves one victim of propaganda’

What do the Police in Hull know that the Met do not ?

194414 ▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 29, #116 of 1839 🔗

Hull doesn’t have Fetida Dick urging the police and public to persecute non-zombies.

194439 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to annie, 17, #117 of 1839 🔗

Or khan as mayor, although he is a puppet and pointless.

194464 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to karenovirus, 5, #118 of 1839 🔗

That’s because they saw what other police forces did and sensibly thought that they shouldn’t fall into the same trap.

194635 ▶▶ Jane G, replying to karenovirus, 2, #119 of 1839 🔗

Wish I had known about that – I would have joined it!

194412 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 9, #120 of 1839 🔗

California school district refusing to set grades because it’s racist.

“California rates 46th in 8th grade test scores despite having 5 of the richest 10 counties in the USA, it has 77 billionaires but 20 of the population lives below the poverty line.

60% of students entering university need remediation* (except they got rid of that word) yet it has more top universities than any nation except the US.”
(Victor Davis Hanson, Two States of California).

Failure to properly educate the next generation is not going to level this inequality.

*means they can’t read and write or do math.

194480 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to karenovirus, 1, #121 of 1839 🔗

It won’t get any better when Biden gets in .

194555 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to arfurmo, 1, #122 of 1839 🔗

If not when!

194535 ▶▶ stewart, replying to karenovirus, 7, #123 of 1839 🔗

Meanwhile the Chinese go in the opposite direction with school getting progressively harder and more demanding all the time.

I wonder which system will win out…

194413 helen, 3, #124 of 1839 🔗
194415 annie, replying to annie, 49, #125 of 1839 🔗

From the Ontario doctor referenced above:

“As a medic, my verdict is clear: mandatory government lockdowns amount to a medical recommendation of no proven benefit, of extraordinary potential harm, that do not take personal values and individual consent into account. Physicians who call for their use should hearken back to these core planks of their ethical training.”

Well said, Doctor. Except that we aren’t getting a recommendation, we are getting a mandate supported by lies, terror and multiple threats.

What’s the principal plank of a politician’s ethical training? FORGET ABOUT ETHICS, presumably.

194548 ▶▶ kf99, replying to annie, 16, #126 of 1839 🔗

Similarly if masks are classified as a medical device (why not, if they work?) how can they be administered without the consent of the ‘patient’.

194418 Londo Mollari, replying to Londo Mollari, 5, #127 of 1839 🔗

On the lead story, RT was reporting that Macron was drafting in 12,000 extra plod to enforce the covid policies.

194436 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Londo Mollari, #128 of 1839 🔗

How convenient. A terror attack to further distract and torment and disorientate. Paris gets its Reading.

194423 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 18, #129 of 1839 🔗

“Freedom of expression, freedom to teach”

This is strong in us all. We want that innate freedom. The image above shows everyone united in France; our need for freedom cannot be conquered. It cannot be squashed. It’s primal.

Hold on to that everyone. We will win!

194433 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Country Mumkin, -1, #130 of 1839 🔗

Islam can be wacky. But not all terror attacks or police killings are real or as described. The belated ‘leaked’ videos of George Flloyd show a man resisting arrest. For ages. And ages. This beheading there is again talk of those Charlie cartoons – the likes of which will be banned in the new twitter normal. For the moment though, divide and conquer. Sow the seeds of division Klaus Barbie will fix.

War is peace.
Freedom is masks and lockdown and furlough
Division/distraction is our/their strength

Watch the birdy! Look over there!

194978 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to chaos, #131 of 1839 🔗

.

194983 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to chaos, -1, #132 of 1839 🔗

The phrase ‘Je suis faux drapeau’ springs to mind.

194443 ▶▶ annie, replying to Country Mumkin, 15, #133 of 1839 🔗

Without freedom of expression, there is no teaching, only indoctrination.

194452 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to annie, 4, #134 of 1839 🔗

I think that is what I meant to say. Thanks Ann. That’s what I meant x

194424 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 8, #135 of 1839 🔗

Re: Andy Burnham’s requested commons vote on the Manchester situation fiasco; the country should hold a referendum/vote on the whole lockdown.
Not holding my breath though.

194428 ▶▶ PatrickF, replying to Fingerache Philip., 12, #136 of 1839 🔗

Then Parliament can debate our “real” intentions and stand either on a “hard”, or “soft” lockdown, while talking about it for four years plus.

194434 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to PatrickF, 18, #137 of 1839 🔗

Exactly. That’s all these bloody idiots do: talk/waffle. And that’s why none of them would last two seconds in the real commercial world.

I’m a grafter/a doer. Can’t stand meetings (that’s why I hate the BID – all they ever do is frigging waffle and have ego-boosting meetings).

Message to MPs, just get things bloody done, you idiots.

195332 ▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to kh1485, 2, #138 of 1839 🔗

And when they do things they’re the wrong things

194444 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Fingerache Philip., 10, #139 of 1839 🔗

Isn’t that how Switzerland has resisted lockdown? Direct democracy?

Once elected in the UK you have a dictatorship that cannot be touched for five years. Coups are even possible.

194453 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to chaos, #140 of 1839 🔗

Could you tell me about the situation in Switzerland?
Genuine question.
PS:What does BID stand for?

194458 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Fingerache Philip., 13, #141 of 1839 🔗

Business ‘Improvement’ District. The inverted commas are intentional.

It is basically made up of a load of ego-trippers, waffling on about nothing and charging businesses for the privilege. For this pile of nonsense, we are charged a tax levy. Last Christmas, their big idea was to have grown men dressed up as elves wandering around the town trying to drum up trade for the town’s businesses.

194479 ▶▶▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to kh1485, 6, #142 of 1839 🔗

Sounds like non jobs made up by the council to employ people who can’t hack it in the real world.

194579 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 8, #143 of 1839 🔗

Oh no, it’s made up of business owners but implemented by the local council.

Someone (a BID sceptic councillor) suggested I try to get elected to the board to infiltrate it and destroy it from within. But, with limited time off, I thought do I really want to spend my time listening to that kind of dreary, soul-sapping management-consultant-speak crap.

194732 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to kh1485, 4, #144 of 1839 🔗

The CEO of our BID worked for a big local estate agent before she moved into the BID. A young woman in her late 20’s early 30’s. I wrote to the BID then her a couple of times complaining about the mental covid rules. Pointless.
Purple Idiots

194722 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #145 of 1839 🔗

Fingerache, do you want to know about the political system in Switzerland or Corona?
I watch an independent journalist based in Switzerland, who has become quite of a hero in Germany.
Switzerland government had a meeting yday to vote about further restrictions, as +test rise, but like everywhere, no significant illness and deaths.
Still they voted to introduce more face covering wearing, so far it was public transport, now also public buildings and shops.
Assembly numbers have been reduced to 15, even outside.(curbing demos).
The regions have quite an autonomy and have varied rules depending on their numbers.

195077 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Silke David, 1, #146 of 1839 🔗

Someone here at LS said lockdown measures in Switzerland were devolved to the Cantons; some hard some soft, same result.

194614 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #147 of 1839 🔗

Can you imagine the fear porn that would hail down on us from the media and advertising. Brexit was bad enough, but this would be wall to wall imagery of death, pestilence, and Armageddon.

194429 chaos, replying to chaos, 15, #148 of 1839 🔗

I just got a flyer for a local Care Home with the message;

XXXXXXX care home in your neighbourhood
Rooms available!

I bet there is. Can someone please wake me up from this nightmare? I want to go back to 1980.

194435 ▶▶ PatrickF, replying to chaos, 13, #149 of 1839 🔗

Sorry, you can’t, because we’re living in 1984.

194695 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to PatrickF, 5, #150 of 1839 🔗

I smiled ruefully when I realised that the act of Parliament that’s being used as legal cover for this shit-show was passed in 1984.

194442 ▶▶ annie, replying to chaos, 8, #151 of 1839 🔗

Rooms available, come and die.

194449 ▶▶▶ Suze Burtenshaw, replying to annie, 9, #152 of 1839 🔗

Or even ‘come and be isolated, lonely and then die.’

194552 ▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to annie, 2, #153 of 1839 🔗

Next steap,come and die and we will turn you into Soylent Green!

194554 ▶▶ stewart, replying to chaos, 6, #154 of 1839 🔗

To be honest, you would have to be either completely heartless or completely desperate to put a relative in a care home these days.

It would be tantamount to sending them off to die in virtual solitary confinement.

194567 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to stewart, 4, #155 of 1839 🔗

Same is true of letting an old person go to hospital.. we don’t let the old die at home. Once the NHS has its claws in.. say sleepy morphine bye bye.

195336 ▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to chaos, 2, #156 of 1839 🔗

Euthanasia by starvation AKA Liverpool Care Pathway

194431 PatrickF, replying to PatrickF, 4, #157 of 1839 🔗

Crystal ball time. When will our taxes rise to pay for the Corona cock up?

194475 ▶▶ Van Allen, replying to PatrickF, 6, #158 of 1839 🔗

I wish it were as simple as a few tax rises.

194493 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to PatrickF, 4, #159 of 1839 🔗

Now and forever until the end of time.

I think we should press a button at the treasury and effectively cancel the debt by instantly paying it off. I think we could get away with that.

194624 ▶▶▶ Van Allen, replying to OKUK, 3, #160 of 1839 🔗

Alas you may be partially correct. The governments debt may well be cancelled to some extent so if you are expecting any sort of state pension In the future or have any government stocks be very afraid… and of course this is just the starting point.

195340 ▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Van Allen, #161 of 1839 🔗

Even if we get out of this it will be austerity forever

194432 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 27, #162 of 1839 🔗

The shortage of critical beds, hospital beds in general, indeed shortage of school places at the best state schools, are all prime examples on the incompetence of state provision.

A private hospital would apply the principle of marginal costing and plan for, say, 25% more beds than it estimates it really needs.

If those beds stay empty, they don’t cost the hospital anything in marginal costs, fixed costs remain the same.

Same with private schools.

That is one good reason why there is a hospital beds crisis every year in this country: poor public sector central planning.

And that is why Democratic Socialist ‘Big State’ Britain isn’t working.

If Britain does not reform and reduce the size of the public sector, economic, political and social stagnation, the root cause of the ridiculous predicament in which we now find ourselves, will continue. And this kind of stupidity will happen again and again ad infinitum…..

194447 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Tim Bidie, 11, #163 of 1839 🔗

It does indeed beggar belief that an NHS with a budget of £129 million and around 1.3 million staff is overwhelmed with 211 critical care cases in one of our major cities. As we have seen with this virus hoo-haa the Government are control freaks and want to micromanage everything but they are poor managers and fail. Clearly the situation with the NHS in Manchester suggests the current system is not delivering a good result for the money and needs reformation.

194487 ▶▶▶ Stephanos, replying to Steve Martindale, 5, #164 of 1839 🔗

I think you meant £129 BILLION.

194491 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #165 of 1839 🔗

You must mean £129 BILLION.

194564 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Tim Bidie, 4, #166 of 1839 🔗

For that, the UK would need to start electing as its leaders properly competent people as opposed to toffs with the gift of the gab and degrees in classics.

194953 ▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Tim Bidie, #167 of 1839 🔗

‘A private hospital would apply the principle of marginal costing and plan for, say, 25% more beds than it estimates it really needs’. You mean like 42 US hospitals, which are declaring bankruptcy because the reduction in elective surgery (because Covid) means their business plan no longer works? That’s so super efficient- no wonder it’s not a system the UK adopted, poor private sector planning indeed:
https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/finance/42-hospitals-closed-filed-for-bankruptcy-this-year.html

194438 2 pence, replying to 2 pence, 4, #168 of 1839 🔗

World facing new Bretton Woods moment: IMF MD Kristalina Georgieva

“We know what action must be taken right now. A durable economic recovery is only possible if we beat the pandemic. Health measures must remain a priority. I urge you to support production and distribution of effective therapies and vaccines to ensure that all countries have access,” Georgieva said.
She urged countries to continue support for workers and businesses until a durable exit from the health crisis.
“We have seen global fiscal actions of USD 12 trillion. Major central banks have expanded balance sheets by USD 7.5 trillion. These synchronised measures have prevented the destructive macro financial feedback we saw in previous crises,” she said.
“But almost all countries are still hurting, especially emerging market and developing economies. And while the global banking system entered the crisis with high capital and liquidity buffers, there is a weak tail of banks in many in emerging markets. We must take measures to prevent the build-up of financial risks over the medium term, she said.

“Beyond this, where debt is unsustainable, it should be restructured without delay. We should move towards greater debt transparency and enhanced creditor coordination. I am encouraged by G-20 discussions on a Common framework for Sovereign Debt Resolution as well as on our call for improving the architecture for sovereign debt resolution, including private sector participation, she said.
Georgieva said that to reap the full benefits of sound economic policy, they must invest more in people. That means protecting the vulnerable. It also means boosting human and physical capital to underpin growth and resilience, she argued.
“Just as the pandemic has shown that we can no longer ignore health precautions, we can no longer afford to ignore climate change…We focus on climate change because it is macrocritical, posing profound threats to growth and prosperity. It is also people-critical and planet critical, said the IMF MD.

https://www.financialexpress.com/economy/world-facing-new-bretton-woods-moment-imf-md-kristalina-georgieva/2106440/

194440 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to 2 pence, 10, #169 of 1839 🔗

Part of the problem not the solution

194542 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to 2 pence, 2, #170 of 1839 🔗

Basically saying what we all know.The Western Governments have spent so much money on Covid that it can never be paid back.
Bretton Woods is where the UK ceded control to the USA.
A new one is where the USA cedes control to China.This is the aim of the WEF as well

194585 ▶▶ stewart, replying to 2 pence, 7, #172 of 1839 🔗

What pointless drivel.

We have to stop the virus. Let’s get a vaccine.
Oh, and we need to sort out the economic impact
And the mounting debt which is becoming unsustainable.
Oh, and climate change, we need to make sure we tackle climate change.
Oh yeah, and let’s protect the vulnerable.
And invest in people.

This moron is just vomiting out the talking points and buzz words swirling around in her brain that she’s picked up from endless conferences and meetings of the global leadership cadre.

Jesus we are so screwed. To think that people like this have a platform and might have actual influence is such a sobering thought.

194650 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to stewart, 3, #173 of 1839 🔗

It’s why they are in those positions. Empty suits. They speak the lingo. Put 50p in the meter and you’re good to go.

194455 Mark, replying to Mark, 35, #174 of 1839 🔗

… too many calls by other speakers threatening to quit if you were there. They all complained about your COVID claims ”.

The crowning turd on the shitpile of modern western culture. The logical debased conclusion of cowardly fear of covid combined with leftist cancel culture – if you don’t like what someone says, try to make sure they can’t say it again, or at least, that nobody can hear it if they do. Hide your head under the pillow and the nasty thing will go away.

So called scientists brought up in cancel culture. The essence of anti-science, and of unreasoning bigotry.

194645 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Mark, 4, #175 of 1839 🔗

I’d like to know the full story behind this and who funded it. As it stands, it only sounds like part of the story.

194658 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Rosie, 1, #176 of 1839 🔗

What is it you suspect is missing?

The conference is here:

https://www.biodesign-conference.com/index.php

Organizers : The conference is organized by Stanford University, the University of Warwick, and BioDesign Research (BDR), a Science Partner Journal of The American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS).
Conveners : The joint conveners are Dr. Alfonso Jaramillo (University of Warwick, UK), Dr. Stanley L. Qi (Stanford University, USA), and Dr. Xiaohan Yang (Oak Ridge National Laboratory, USA), who are the Editors-in-Chief of BDR.

The quote in Levitt’s tweet seems pretty clear-cut:

… too many calls by other speakers threatening to quit if you were there. They all complained about your COVID claims ”.

194726 ▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Mark, 2, #177 of 1839 🔗

The sort of thing that happens in other such cases is that the organizers are leant upon, and/or have already sold out. Basically an institution accepts funding under certain terms, which include the imposition of all politically correct positions – the most obvious example being they have to promote the ‘carbon dioxide is evil’ mantra.
I guess I’m talking about the Long March Through the Institutions.
When it comes to the point, it turns out that the organizers had no genuine complaints – or only one – or from people who have already accepted funding.
There is a fairly recent relatively well-known example, but with so much going on I can’t bring it to mind.

195395 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Rosie, #178 of 1839 🔗

Yes, it’s quite possible something like that happened, or even just that the organisers wanted to veto him themselves and made up the supposed “list” of people complaining.

Doesn’t make it smell any less noxious.

195499 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Mark, 1, #179 of 1839 🔗

Seen this sort of thing before with low carb diets. People being deplatformed, unable to publish and even being prosecuted.

If you only read the MSM you will know nothing of
Annika Dhalqvist who was prosecuted in Sweden but presented ebough evidence that the government backed down (go Sweden!) Tim Noakes in South Africa who was prosecuted and found not guilty, the dieticians demanded a retrial and he was found not guilty again, Gary Fettke in Australia . . .

. . . it has gradually improved, even the big journals no longer veto publication but still I read recently of someone who was told “of course” he could have a grant for the low fat arm of his study but “if” he wanted a low carb arm he would have to finance it himself.

Lots of money in low fat diets and the necessary medications of course, but also reputation and behind it all the Seventh Day Adventists

194729 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Mark, 4, #180 of 1839 🔗

Well done on that turn of phrase!

And yes, sadly, I agree. We’re entering a new Dark Age.

194456 Eddy, replying to Eddy, 38, #181 of 1839 🔗

Don’t forget whilst MP’s are pushing for lockdownds, redundancies, suicides etc. They have just been given a nice pay rise and they will continue to collect their salaries.

194459 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Eddy, 17, #182 of 1839 🔗

This is the MPs way of telling us the public to “let them eat cake” while we’re suffering the effects of lockdown, social distancing and masks.

When this shitshow is over, this should never be allowed to happen again.

The number of MPs should be slashed – why the feck do we need 600 odd of them?

Slash their pay – minimum wage only, no expenses and absolutely no pensions when they stand down or lose their seats.

It’s supposed to be public service right? So let them put their money where their mouths are.

If they don’t like it then don’t stand. Should weed out those who are in it only for the money and networking opportunities.

194461 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #183 of 1839 🔗

We need one MP and at least one shadow(s) MP per constituency. That’s how elections and debates are won. You know this. With the same propaganda and controls (social distancing) that worked on the plebs, Boris and his Davos Klaus Barbie crew have silenced those needed debates and voices.

194469 ▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to chaos, -6, #184 of 1839 🔗

Davos Klaus Barbie crew’.

Intriguing description. Perhaps you could elaborate?

194534 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Cambridge N, 2, #185 of 1839 🔗

Klaus Barbie was a SS officer known as the butcher of Lyon

194525 ▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to chaos, -5, #186 of 1839 🔗

Oh, go on. Do tell us more about ‘Boris and his Davos Klaus Barbie crew’ . Waiting with baited breath……

194557 ▶▶▶▶▶ chaos, replying to Cambridge N, 7, #187 of 1839 🔗

By referring to K Schwab as K Barbie.. I hint at the economic carnage and butchery and dispair to come from the great reset.

194749 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to chaos, 2, #188 of 1839 🔗

K Schwab =Klaus Barbie. A very good comparison.

195216 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to Two-Six, -3, #189 of 1839 🔗

Bonkers comparison.

195214 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to chaos, -1, #190 of 1839 🔗

Really? That’s nuts. Just because you don’t like this Schwab and the WEF, doesn’t justify your likening him to a Nazi war criminal!

194936 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cambridge N, 1, #191 of 1839 🔗

Waiting with baited breath……

That’s probably because you’re wearing mask, in your mum’s basement.

195219 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to JohnB, -1, #192 of 1839 🔗

No need to be insolent, old chum. Make an effort.

195304 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to JohnB, 2, #193 of 1839 🔗

Play the ball, not the man.

195428 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to RichardJames, #194 of 1839 🔗

CN = obvious troll.

(There’s always a third party likes to get involved. Start your own scraps ! 🙂 ).

195915 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to JohnB, #195 of 1839 🔗

@

195473 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cambridge N, #196 of 1839 🔗

Troll alert!

195916 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to Cheezilla, #197 of 1839 🔗

@

194482 ▶▶▶ Stephanos, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #198 of 1839 🔗

Four conditions ought to be met in order to be elected as an MP:

  1. Minimum age of 40. This gives life experience
  2. A prospective MP must have worked at a senior level in a for-profit private company for 10 years. This gives knowledge of the real world. Civil Service, think tanks, charities, social work are out.
  3. A prospective MP must be able to support him or herself. The only expenses would be free travel on all public transport himself and his wife (or herself and her husband), do note the terminology here and free petrol or diesel for ONE car. If someone is not able to look after his/her own finances then such a person is not fit to be in charge of the nation’s finances.
  4. A prospective MP must have served in the Armed Forces, which could include the Territorials. Since such people are going send armies into conflict, they need to know what it is like.
194495 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Stephanos, 3, #199 of 1839 🔗

That’s a good idea. I would also add for number 2 – or having set up their own business and run it sucessfully for a minimum of 10 years.

194612 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #200 of 1839 🔗

Can’t quite work out how a 40 year old could realistically have served in the armed forces and set up or been senior in a successful business for 10 years and have made enough money out of one or the other to support themselves and their family for an indefinite period of time without an income (beyond free travel).

At the very least, you’ll end up with a parliament full of people who think in essentially exactly the same way and who have absolutely ruthlessly pursued a career path and personal wealth generation through their 20s and 30s, with the sole goal of putting themselves into a position of potential power in their 40s and 50s, having had probable experience of killing people or ordering others to kill people while in their 20s.

I’m really not sure those are the kinds of people I want running the country.

194649 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 2, #201 of 1839 🔗

I think 1 & 2 are fine. I don’t agree with 4 for the reasons I’ve already set out..

As for 3, I’ve always been tempted by the idea of paying MPs the national average earned income, or the average in their constituency perhaps, plus travel expenses. Gives them the right kind of incentive and forces them to confront to some extent at least what real life is like for most of their constituents.

The plausible arguments for paying MPs more tend to be that better pay encourages better applicants, that better pay reduces incentives for corruption, and that better pay makes it easier for poorer people to be MPs I’m not really convinced by any of those arguments, and certainly I think bringing MPs down to a more human level is inherently a good thing. They are not rulers, they are representatives.

194680 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, 2, #202 of 1839 🔗

I’m all for a requirement for an MP to have a proven real world track record, yes. I know several current and former MPs (mostly second had, as it were) and the one thing they all have in common is that they’ve never done anything else worth mentioning, other than priming themselves to be MPs. This is unquestionably one of the causes of the current political context.

As for the pay issue, I’m not really sure what I think, except that most of the arguments I’ve heard, both for lower pay and for higher pay don’t really seem to stack up when put in the context either of economic reality or of human motivation and psychology.

194697 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to matt, 2, #203 of 1839 🔗

Just to add, of course, the real fundamental problem is that people are supposed to care who their representative is, what they’ve done and what they say, not just what party they belong to and how well the leader of that party performs on television. The fact is, they don’t.

194774 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, #204 of 1839 🔗

Absolutely. This brings us into another area discussed previously – the problem of political party structures.

194773 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, #205 of 1839 🔗

I don;t think MP is to be regarded as a job in this sense, in respect of ordinary human motivation to work by pay. It’s utterly different (or should be)..

194778 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to matt, #206 of 1839 🔗

There are no hard and fast rules but surely there should be some sort of minimum requirements that a person should meet before they’re eligible.

I also forgot to add that I don’t think that people with very young children (even until the kid is 16-18 years old) should be allowed to stand. A kid needs their parents and being an MP is not conducive to a stable home arrangement. Plus it seems that having very young children clouds their judgement as we’ve seen with Johnson.

194981 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Bart Simpson, #207 of 1839 🔗

‘I also forgot to add that I don’t think that people with very young children (even until the kid is 16-18 years old) should be allowed to stand.. A kid needs their parents and being an MP is not conducive to a stable home arrangement’.
What? Presumably working on an oil rig, in the armed services, as a surgeon, opera singer, or other job with irregular hours and stress isn’t either? Are you saying such jobs should never be undertaken by anyone with children under 18?

195478 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, #208 of 1839 🔗

Tobias Ellwood. Serco puppets?
Maybe not!

194603 ▶▶▶▶ concrete68, replying to Stephanos, 1, #209 of 1839 🔗

I see, sounds like a return to the honourable member for turnip on the wold. Why bother with democracy why not just direct rule by the army officers. They have served us so well in recent conflicts. A quick look at current MPs who have been in the forces tells us they are, just like the rest of us, a mixed bag. Your idea is no more than the usual : a doctor should run the department for health , a teacher should run education etc. What it would result in is a focus on protecting the interests of the professional body. Ie more tanks, ships etc if you think it would protect the lives of squaddies you haven’t been reading enough military history.

194629 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Stephanos, 1, #210 of 1839 🔗

I agree mostly, except for the armed forces requirement. While I’m not a pacifist, my view is that this country has not fought in a justified war (with the debatable exception of the first Gulf War) since the Falklands. While I accept the need to prepare for war as a precaution, we have other issues in our governance far more urgent than military experience.

If I felt that military service would reliably protect against engaging in wars of choice, as some suggest, I might be keener on the idea, but my experience is that that is not a reliable feature of military experience.

194752 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Stephanos, 3, #211 of 1839 🔗

Being an MP should be like jury service.

194942 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Stephanos, 1, #212 of 1839 🔗

1) 50.
2) -‘senior level’
3) Nope. 5 years with no income would rule out most people.
4) Nope. Too used to following orders.

194514 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #213 of 1839 🔗

We have even more parasites in the Lords! If ever this country was ripe for Revolution its now!

194519 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bella Donna, 5, #214 of 1839 🔗

Its become a retirement home for useless politicians and those who can’t win seats in the Commons. Yes, I’m looking at you Ladies Ashton and Warsi.

194990 ▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Bella Donna, #215 of 1839 🔗

Yes, no more than say 300 in Lords (enough to present a staying hand on the Commons), with compulsory retirement and withdrawal of all facilities and privileges at 75.

194716 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #216 of 1839 🔗

I was interested to learn that George Washington thought that political parties themselves were the enemy of good governance, owing to their tendency to act out of revenge and petty jealousy.

194781 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Mabel Cow, #217 of 1839 🔗

That’s why he was opposed to them and actually attempted to stop their formation when he was in office.

195470 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #218 of 1839 🔗

Trouble is, that would completely exclude fairly normal, everyday people from representing us and Parliament would be populated solely by the wealthy.
Next step, rotten boroughs.

195836 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Bart Simpson, #219 of 1839 🔗

Any MP who supports lockdowns should be put on UC and their salary given to the people of their constituency who have been thrown out of work.

194457 Eddy, replying to Eddy, 14, #220 of 1839 🔗

Dirty Gimp-Gags everywhere.

194467 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Eddy, 13, #221 of 1839 🔗

We should show more respect these snot covered rags are sacred symbols of the new cult of covidology. The great prophet Hancock came down from the mountain and pronounced we had to wear them or we will all be doomed.
The local builder pulled his out of his pocket the other day along with brick dust and saw dust, I saw one mask the other day that looked like it had previously been used to wipe down after mucking out the horses but no matter we are are showing due respect to the great God covid.

194492 ▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to Steve Martindale, 8, #222 of 1839 🔗

Yet we have evidently angered him, for he is smiting us all dead in Manchester and Liverpool. Dead, dead, I tell you! They are shovelling the bodies into the Mersey.

194543 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Alethea, 5, #223 of 1839 🔗

Ferry Cross the Mersey will be really the river Styx

194490 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to Eddy, 13, #224 of 1839 🔗

They are absolutely revolting. I don’t know how people can bear it. There is a gym in my area that makes people wear them when they’re walking around. Then put them back on their sweaty heavy-breathing faces. But the most disgusting thing is when you’re working out you’re allowed to take it off – except there’s no lockers/bags/changing rooms allowed so you either have to wear it on your sweaty arm or leave it on the floor where it absorbs god knows what from the bottoms of your shoes. Then put it on again. Makes me feel ill thinking about it and people think it’ll protect them!

194463 alw, replying to alw, 14, #226 of 1839 🔗

Huge numbers out in Paris for Je Suis Charlie, not distancing. Will be interesting to see Covid Rates in Paris in two weeks. Hopefully will put an end to Macron’s nonsense.

194473 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to alw, 6, #227 of 1839 🔗

And add to the long line of activities that blow this narrative out of the water:

VE Day celebrations
days out at the beach
BLM
XR
numerous anti-lockdown protests.
Je Suis Samuel?

194496 ▶▶ IanE, replying to alw, 4, #228 of 1839 🔗

The ONLY thing that would put an end to Macron’s nonsense is an end to Macron.

194595 ▶▶ stewart, replying to alw, 3, #229 of 1839 🔗

Real life evidence stopped factoring into public policy decisions sometime back in March.

195524 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to stewart, #230 of 1839 🔗

Didn’t I just hear someone on the BBC ckauming that the rise in “cases” NOW was the result of the beaches then? (I’m not sure, it was the BBC so I wan’t really listening, just setting my recorder for later) Honest.

194465 Ewan Duffy, 13, #231 of 1839 🔗

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/search-teams-fear-the-worst-as-fungie-remains-missing-since-last-thursday-39639511.html

On the day that Ireland will effectively be put back into lockdown in all but name, the national media are worrying about a f***ing dolphin. 🙁

If only they showed the same concern for those who have been told that they are not permitted to earn a living, or those being subjected to domestic abuse in lockdown or those who are now suicidal as a result of lockdown.

194466 GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, #232 of 1839 🔗

Quoted from the article above; 4) The CDC: ‘Our systematic review found no significant effect of face masks on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza.’

So , has it been confirmed that this virus was indeed manufactured or are they referring to another study?

194470 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, #233 of 1839 🔗

Laboratory confirmed in this context means the ‘flu virus in question has been confirmed in a lab to be the ‘flu virus.

194474 ▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Mark H, #234 of 1839 🔗

Thanks Mark.

194468 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 10, #235 of 1839 🔗

Boris needs to create another SAGE group whose remit is only to look at the deleterious effects of lockdown. One of the first papers I read back in March came from a health economist which said that a recession/depression takes 3 months of everyone’s life on average. ie 15 million life years for the UK. At the most pessimistic analysis of QALYS lost in the ‘do nothing scenario’ (500,000 x 10 years each), the loss of life due to the lockdown induced recession was always going to be higher. If they had have integrated this sort of data at the beginning we would have had a Sweden approach. SAGE member Mark Woolhouse has said as much. SAGE is obsessed with covid deaths at the expense of all else.

194600 ▶▶ stewart, replying to steve_w, 1, #236 of 1839 🔗

And Boris Johnson is all of a sudden going to be motivated to do that because…?

194727 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to stewart, 1, #237 of 1839 🔗

…because then he can use SAGE 2.0 as a way to shift the blame for his catastrophic policies onto SAGE 1.0.

He could then simply claim that he was acting in good faith and was just “badly advised”.

194471 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 3, #238 of 1839 🔗

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-suspected-covid-case-at-port-of-tauranga/VFFJZLDPN2ZM6LBWTJ675FUAIY/

About the infected port worker in NZ. Just shows the enormous difficulties to shield off from the world. Even if all the ships arriving in NZ are cordoned off, not letting crew depart, the real world cannot not be shut off. The electronics engineer  had to work on the ship(mask and gloves) and now his strain has never been found earlier in NZ. Next step stopping all ships? Impossible.
“The marine electronics engineer who tested positive for the virus on Friday had worked on both ships. The new case was announced yesterday.
Genomic sequencing showed the strain of Covid-19 had not been previously seen in New Zealand and was not linked to the recent August outbreak or any other New Zealand cases, Bloomfield said.
The Ministry of Health today said the Sofrana Surville, a ship bound for Brisbane from Auckland and Noumea, was the most likely source of infection for a port worker who tested positive for Covid-19 on Friday.
The Ken Rei, a ship off the coast of Napier with 21 crew on board, was also being looked at, director general of health Ashley Bloomfield said.”

194568 ▶▶ kf99, replying to swedenborg, 3, #239 of 1839 🔗

Amazed this hasn’t happened more. Modern shipping is based on so little time in port that visits can be hive of maintenance activity. Specialists often travel with a ship while work is carried out en route, there’s no way quarantine rules can apply as trade would grind to a halt.

194622 ▶▶ stewart, replying to swedenborg, 2, #240 of 1839 🔗

A question for a genetic scientist:

If there are different strains of Sars Cov 2, what are the special characteristics of Sars Cov 2 that distinguish it from other corona viruses. And at what point do different strains of the virus stop being Sars Cov 2 and become a whole other virus?

194770 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to stewart, 3, #241 of 1839 🔗

When “scientists” use CGI to image the new SARS2Cov virus strain under an electron microscope and see it has shorter arms and legs and a smaller toothless mouth. It might change colour from RED to BLUE as well. Much less scary.

194627 ▶▶ DRW, replying to swedenborg, #242 of 1839 🔗

Full autarky for NZ then to “beat the virus” for good.

194472 Mark, replying to Mark, 18, #243 of 1839 🔗

The scientists who threatened to pull out if Michael Levitt was allowed to participate should be ashamed of themselves.

In truth, as much as the anti-scientists who threatened to pull out, the organisers themselves should be ashamed of their own cowardice. If they had any self-respect, any respect for the most basic essence of science, they would have proudly and publicly refused to give in to such bigoted blackmail, and named and shamed those threatening to pull out.

194476 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Mark, 9, #244 of 1839 🔗

I should say that I have read Michael Levitt’s preprint Predicting the Trajectory of Any COVID19 Epidemic From the Best Straight Line and have serious disagreements with it, as you’ll see from my comments on the medrxiv page. But scientific disagreements should be pursued by open discussion rather than refusal to engage.

194481 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Richard Pinch, 8, #245 of 1839 🔗

Absolutely. Disagreement and debate is the essence of science.

But this wasn’t even a conference on covid. It’s a conference on “Biosystems Design and Synthetic Biology”. In effect, this is pure political bigotry, trying to punish someone for expressing disliked opinions in an unrelated area.

It’s not new in modern western culture – it’s been done to “racists” for decades. But this really is taking it to a new depth of illiberalism.

194544 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Mark, #246 of 1839 🔗

Yes, that’s a fair point.

194922 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark, #247 of 1839 🔗

We have no evidence there were other scientists involved, of course. Other than the organisers’ statement.

195387 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to JohnB, #248 of 1839 🔗

True, though it doesn’t change much.

194484 OKUK, 12, #249 of 1839 🔗

“Rallying in tribute” is almost an insult when your government, your profession and your media are doing their utmost to enable and to sanitise the ideology that killed you.

A further thought: Samuel would have been instantly dismissed from his post and denounced by the BBC as a “racist” if he had dared to show those cartoons in a British classroom.

194528 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to arfurmo, 6, #251 of 1839 🔗

The tone of the article was scary.
‘The Chinese people just do as the scientists tell them’
‘The Chinese people are more willing to inform on someone’
This is the future they want for us.

194630 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #252 of 1839 🔗

Future? We’re here already. We are superficially unruly, but in essence just as much a flock of sheep as the Chinese.

194780 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to stewart, 5, #253 of 1839 🔗

We are worse, at least Chinese people know how tyrannical their governments can be. In the UK we have no idea about totalitarianism, cultural revolutions, and brutal state suppression and refuse to accept our government are tyrants.

194673 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to arfurmo, 4, #254 of 1839 🔗

On a local polticial blog here in Northern Ireland I was shocked to see one person ask for quarantine hotels, electronic tags for infected and enforced isolation for all contacts of infected individuals.

Even now that kind of language shocks me.

I do think though they are the ultimate shielders. They hide behind their sofas and call for everyone else to do the same. A sick individual

194728 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #255 of 1839 🔗

You would have thought that with a history of internment that people in NI would know that it doesn’t work.

194494 Stuart, 1, #256 of 1839 🔗

Is that the fake crisis of hospital overflows we see in your photo?

No-one can deny that so many “cases” in the open air is a portent of things to come. Are there no trolleys? Are there no corridors?

194497 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 11, #257 of 1839 🔗

I just found this nice paper from Cambridge

“We find that the costs of the three-month lockdown in the UK are likely to have been high relative to benefits, so that a continuation of severe restrictions is unlikely to be warranted. There is a need to normalise how we view COVID-19 because its costs and risks are comparable to other health problems (such as cancer, heart problems, diabetes) where governments have made resource decisions for decades. Treating possible future COVID-19 deaths as if little else matters is going to lead to bad outcomes. Good decision-making does not mean paying little attention to the collateral damage that comes from responding to a worst case COVID-19 scenario.”

“We find that a movement away from blanket restrictions that bring large, lasting and widespread costs, and towards measures targeted specifically at groups most at risk is now prudent.  Such a policy should probably have been started before the end of June 2020.”

https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/C1D46F6A3118D0360CDAB7A08E94ED22/S0027950120000307a.pdf/living_with_covid19_balancing_costs_against_benefits_in_the_face_of_the_virus.pdf

194505 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to steve_w, 3, #258 of 1839 🔗

some academics beginning to redeem themselves…

195011 ▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Alethea, #259 of 1839 🔗

How do you mean ‘acadenics beginning to redeem themselves?’ I drew attention to this paper back in August when it came out, and to a predecessor paper (Occasional Paper 49) from LSE, referenced in this one’s notes. I don’t know if one referenced as forthcoming:
Stedman, M., Davies, M., Lunt, M., Verma, A., Anderson, S.G. and
Heald, A.H. (2020), ‘A phased approach to unlocking during the
COVID-19 pandemic…’
has appeared yet, will look.
But make no mistake, this sort of analysis has been available to government and its advisors as soon as it appears. It’s just that the medical autocracy currently still have the upper hand. In the usual human way of weighting fear of loss very much heavier than prospects of future gain, see Kahneman.

195726 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Richard Pinch, #261 of 1839 🔗

Yes, thanks Richard, I actually looked it up earlier and discovered it, but I’d seen a preprint in about May, so nothing much new in the final version that I could see.
Walked into town afterwards and the economic damage in this formerly prosperous town in SE commuterland is shocking, so many shops closed for good and branches of larger chains holding closing down sales.

194498 Mark, replying to Mark, 29, #262 of 1839 🔗

Archbishops’ assault on Brexit bill: Boris on collision course with UK’s five Anglican church leaders as they brand key legislation a ‘disastrous’ threat to democracy comment image
Boris Johnson was on a collision course with the Church over Brexit this evening as the UK’s five Anglican archbishops warned that controversial legislation would set a ‘disastrous precedent’ and undermine Britain’s standing in the world. The group, led by the Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby ( inset), said the Internal Market Bill would ride roughshod over the Withdrawal Agreement signed with the EU last year – and potentially put peace in Northern Ireland at risk. They added: ‘If carefully negotiated terms are not honoured and laws can be ‘legally’ broken, on what foundations does our democracy stand?’ PIctured below are letter signatories the Archbishop of Armagh, John McDowell; the Archbishop of Wales, John Davies; the Primus of the Scottish Episcopal Church, Mark Strange; and the Archbishop of York, Stephen Cottrell.
***************************************************************

So our useless, unChristian Church hierarchy isn’t fazed by legitimate protesters being baton charged in London, can’t be bothered to stand up for Church practices against coronapanic cowardice, and doesn’t make a peep about the misery imposed by coronapanic measures against the elderly and vulnerable everywhere, but gets really hot under the collar when the government tries to push through a political policy in a political area that is essentially none of their business as churchmen, that was authorised by a national referendum.

Typical.

194503 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Mark, 12, #263 of 1839 🔗

What use is the clergy? They should comfort the sick and elderly and not mess in politics!

194506 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Bella Donna, 12, #264 of 1839 🔗

How about preaching the Gospel?

194508 ▶▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 9, #265 of 1839 🔗

That’s their real job, which they always forget about.

194686 ▶▶▶▶ Fiat, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #266 of 1839 🔗

Now there’s a thought

194517 ▶▶▶ dpj, replying to Bella Donna, 14, #267 of 1839 🔗

Not at all. The thing that annoys me is their selective messing in politics. No church leader has dared to speak out against ridiculous over the top rules that have destroyed churches over last 6 months but they seem happy to speak out against this when they know they have safety in numbers and are agreeing with majority.

194690 ▶▶▶▶ Nsklent, replying to dpj, 2, #268 of 1839 🔗

My fourth email to my priest is going in today, headed, ‘When is the Church going to speak out.’ My previous 3 emails over 6 months have remained unanswered, so he can’t even argue his corner. This communication will outlay the devastation and life lost due to the barmy policies, compared to those affected by covid -reference will also be made to the church’s support of Poland back in the cold war, and the brave priests who continued their work in communust regimes.

194512 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Mark, 5, #269 of 1839 🔗

The bishops have been consulting with their Lord (Satan). Not a word about abortion, going along with the statue madness and the shutdown of churches to avoid Cv, face masks and all the bovine excrement.

194515 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Mark, 11, #270 of 1839 🔗

The CoE has been a disgrace throughout this crisis and even before. One is always led to ask “what is the point of them?”

They should do their actual job and leave politics to the politicians. As Jesus himself said “render unto Cesar what is to Cesar’s and to God what is to God.”

If they want to play politics they should resign their offices and stand for public office as plain “Mr” or “Ms” or “Mrs.” Let them seem how their stance plays out with the public.

Also time for the CoE to be disestablished and the bishops chucked out of the House of Lords.

194516 ▶▶ court, replying to Mark, 8, #271 of 1839 🔗

I’m so angry with the CofE. If they ever email me to ask why we haven’t been since they reopened they’re going to get both barrels.

194626 ▶▶▶ Stephanos, replying to court, 7, #272 of 1839 🔗

I am sorry to hear this but I have so much sympathy with you. I have only been once because I simply cannot stand all this face-nappy wearing and anti-social distancing. I have to bury myself in the Greek New Testament, Patristics and so forth.
On the subject of anti-social distancing can we please refer to it from now on, both within this forum and without as ‘anti-social distancing’ because that is what it is.

194532 ▶▶ FlynnQuill, replying to Mark, 2, #273 of 1839 🔗

Who’s interested in what these Charlatans say anyway?

194605 ▶▶ Stephanos, replying to Mark, 9, #274 of 1839 🔗

Some very good points, Mark. It is a source of immense pain to me that Church leaders can witter on about Brexit (which they clearly dislike), but say absolutely NOTHING about the misery being inflicted on ordinary people day by day.
Where was Welby (and the others) when the police started encouraging neighbours to snitch on each other? That is what they should be preaching about and denouncing because it is despicable behaviour. I have represented this to several clergymen but I have achieved nothing, only a silence which I don’t even think was embarrassed.
Are there any clergymen on here? There are plenty of Christians, but where are the clergymen?
I say clergymen because, as a grammarian, man embraces the woman.

194791 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Stephanos, 3, #275 of 1839 🔗

A church near me has replaced it’s notice board with a big covid stay safe banner, insisting on face nappies, 2 meters and sanitizer. Evil if you ask me.

194841 ▶▶▶▶ Stephanos, replying to Two-Six, 1, #276 of 1839 🔗

This is depressing.

194499 Danny, replying to Danny, 49, #277 of 1839 🔗

After yet another fun weekend of being verbally abused in a shop this weekend, this thought is foremost in my mind….
If people genuinely believe us to be living through a Black Death pandemic, what the hell are they doing going shopping and sitting in cafes?
I would be locking the doors, keeping my family safe and leaving the house once a month in the middle of the night to forage for food.
It is the upmost selfishness to imagine that we can be living through an end of day’s moment, but one that can be countered by putting on a face cloth and then carrying on life as normal. And on that note, if they believe the masks to work, then great, they are safe. Leave me be. But if they are suggesting that masks are not fully safe, well then it returns us to the question of why the hell they are sitting in a cafe?
Utter selfishness, which ironically enough is the term levelled at anyone not wearing a mask.

194502 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Danny, 21, #278 of 1839 🔗

Spot on, Danny. I see it as little more than superstition. Mask could be replaced with a rabbit’s foot, clove of garlic or magic potion.

194521 ▶▶▶ FlynnQuill, replying to Charlie Blue, 14, #279 of 1839 🔗

Dog shit smeared on the top lip, keeps coronavirus away folks, honest! If Boris mandated it, most of our supine public would do it.

194822 ▶▶▶ Marialta, replying to Charlie Blue, 2, #280 of 1839 🔗

The anthropologist in me is intrigued – we’ve not evolved that much actually

194507 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Danny, 9, #281 of 1839 🔗

Indeed and then spend time in making a big deal about somebody not following the brainwashing.

If they are that scared do not spend time whining, get in and out of the shop as quickly as possible.

194509 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Danny, 12, #282 of 1839 🔗

It is a kind of end of days moment because this hysteria is destroying our civilisation.

194536 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Danny, 20, #283 of 1839 🔗

You know how a car can make nice people behave very badly? That anonymity of being in a sealed environment (the car) and the stress of driving and sharing road space with other road users – some of whom make mistakes? So suddenly you find yourself swearing, sticking up a finger or worse? The mask perhaps has a similar effect.

194556 ▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to chaos, 13, #284 of 1839 🔗

Yes: it’s disinhibiting. That’s one reason people engaged in BDSM might choose to wear them. It frees you from being recognised as yourself, or indeed as an adult social subject. This is totally acceptable in private, as a choice, but an absolute ethical horror show when imposed by law in the public sphere.

194684 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to chaos, 8, #285 of 1839 🔗

Excellent. Indeed it does give people a license to vent their general frustration with lockdown to others. Not those that have inflicted the stress on them, no, the mother of three who has done more to combat the fear agenda than the masked ever would.

They feel all this stress, and so unaware of themselves on an emotional level they don’t know how to digest it. They vent. Then they take that smae frustration home where they vent to their partners about their run in with the umaksed. Still angry, still stressed and they’ve achieved absolutely nothing. They probably drown it in cheap vodka and cry into their pillow

194802 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to chaos, 7, #286 of 1839 🔗

I am suffering from mask Tourettes. I REALLY should NOT mix with the public for every bodies safety.

195109 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to chaos, 1, #287 of 1839 🔗

Very true. I’ve often thought that being behind a steering wheel makes a normal person impatient, an impatient person aggressive, and an aggressive person dangerous.

194546 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Danny, 10, #288 of 1839 🔗

Also similar to a bicycle helmet. A recent study found cyclists seemed to take greater risks with a helmet and so also did road users – passing closer to cyclists with a helmet on. Same study also found male drivers give pretty female cyclists more room and less to male cyclists. Yet cycle helmets offer very little protection to the user. Yet many people will chastise those cyclist who choose to be free of such limited protectio0n. Same with masks.

194581 ▶▶▶ concrete68, replying to chaos, 3, #289 of 1839 🔗

As a non helmet wearing cyclist and non mask wearer I can confirm I get regular shouts from other cyclists . A few stop and ask me why and I always say the evidence shows no effects. Just like the mask wearers they shake their heads on move on. I’m the mad one for reading and absorbing the actual research.

194745 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to concrete68, #290 of 1839 🔗

In a society of the insane, the sane man or woman is “mad”.

It’s basically Plato’s Cave, writ small.

194834 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to concrete68, #291 of 1839 🔗

Chaos, you are right. Plus, cycle helmets are only guaranteed by the makers to protect the wearer from a standing fall. I never wear a helmet but have never been shouted at, possibly because I’m so ancient. I never wear a mask either. MW

194666 ▶▶▶ FenTyger, replying to chaos, 4, #292 of 1839 🔗

Try the “The Norm Chronicles” by David Spieghalter, he suggests that instead of airbags & seatbelts we would all drive far more carefully if you put a big spike on the steering wheel instead. Or you could buy an old TVR and drive it in the wet.

194962 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to FenTyger, #293 of 1839 🔗

Ove Andersson died like that…
Still, I agree.

194577 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Danny, 10, #294 of 1839 🔗

Its basically the modern day version of a talisman. I’ve lost count of the amount of people who stuff them into their pockets and bags, put them on and take them off, constantly touch their faces. I’ve even seen people use them to wipe their glasses and even phone screens!

This goes to show that this is all theatre and as a means to control people. The “Pharisees” parade with their “cute” muzzles in public or via their antisocial media accounts to demonstrate that they’re “good” and “caring” whilst not realising that they have blood on their hands.

194587 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Danny, 7, #295 of 1839 🔗

Sorry to hear that. Besides people being brainwashed and complete sheep I also think it must depend where in the country you are actually based. I live in S London and I have never, never been challenged on this and I go to the supermarket all the time. I went to 3 different ones yesterday and noboduy even raises a eyebrow. The shop assistants don’t wear them in Sainsbury, Waitrose, Lidl…aof course like I said that could just be London .

194625 ▶▶▶ davews, replying to Thomas_E, 3, #296 of 1839 🔗

No issues just now in my local Tesco, even a few smiles. And for once I was not alone, at least one more maskless. Sadly all staff had them on, presumably mandate from above.

194676 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to davews, 5, #297 of 1839 🔗

Someone should notify the supermarket bosses and unions that they are endangering the health of their staff.

194660 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Thomas_E, 9, #298 of 1839 🔗

in scotistan at the start of the maskage I was interrogated in a supermarket petrol station, I gave as good as I got and interrogated when I strolled into a record shop. I normally just say no! Or exempt! And walk in. TBF I haven’t been out much as it’s not much fun.

Maybe it’s my demeanour and am over 6ft tall and am prepared to defend myself although it’s not easy and my heart races but I know I’m doing it for the right reasons and fuck every one of the mask wearers.

194825 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Thomas_E, 4, #299 of 1839 🔗

It’s like that in the High Peak as well – live and let live. Great posts, by the way, Danny and replies! MW

194607 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Danny, 10, #300 of 1839 🔗

From people’s behaviour it is clear that very very few are genuinely worried. They pretend to themselves they are worried so that they don’t have to face the truth that all of this is nonsense, that it has been for nothing and that we are governed by psychopaths, and they pretend to others they are worried because having to follow the rules is annoying when others are not following them, but pretending they are worried is a better argument. It’s collective madness, self-delusion, denial.

194960 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Danny, 5, #301 of 1839 🔗

Yep.
It that was a real killer virus, and Tegnell or Giesecke gave a well reasoned and evidenced recommendation to use suited N95/FFP2 masks correctly, I’d be the first to comply.
But not like this and by those tossers.

194500 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 10, #302 of 1839 🔗

Madness heaped upon madness

Buck passing heaped upon buck passing

The politicians will not make a decision about anything. They will not take responsibility for anything. In order to absolve themselves from blame they pass the buck to the scientists

The scientists do they same. They also do not want to take the blame for anything; so they come up with predictions that say if just one person sneezes then fifty million people could die instantly

The politicians say wow! the scientists say fifty million people could die, and pass the buck to local authorities

Then it becomes another exercise in buck passing and madness as to who is going to pay for all the madness. This is even though there is no money to pay for any of it

It’s just warming up

There are not enough baton wielders to club the whole population into submission

I think it’s going to get very bloody

194504 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Cecil B, 10, #303 of 1839 🔗

There is no buck passing this is planned.Seperate the populace,lock us up again,stop us communicating,all the while continue to build the police state

195979 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #304 of 1839 🔗
194510 karenovirus, 5, #305 of 1839 🔗

BBC R4 Today.
Sean Fielding of Oldham Council described proposed tier 3 lockdown measures as ‘unproven’.
Nick Robinson did not challenge that.

Later Robert Jenrik(?) Communities Minister said the situation in Manchester was serious with ICU beds between 70-85% occupied.
But we know that 85% is normal, Nick did not challenge that either.

194511 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 2, #306 of 1839 🔗
194530 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Cecil B, #307 of 1839 🔗

but with everything made in china isn’t it inevitable?

194794 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cecil B, 2, #308 of 1839 🔗

They’re letting 16/17 year olds vote ?!?

Doomed.

194513 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 2, #309 of 1839 🔗

Shocking ‘journalism’ in the land of St Jacinta. Classic fingers in ears:

https://youtu.be/Zw5a2Cc5KtI

194711 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Sarigan, 1, #310 of 1839 🔗

Horrendous.

When he says “Well the morality rate for Covid-19 is..”

She says she doesn’t want to hear it.

194518 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #311 of 1839 🔗

I know that Andy Burnham is doing his best for Manchester but he does put me in mind of a man trying to renegotiate the price of the rental of a deckchair on the Titanic.

194520 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Fingerache Philip., 15, #312 of 1839 🔗

Andy Burnham is, as ever, doing what he perceives as his best for Andy Burnham.

194529 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to IanE, 1, #313 of 1839 🔗

Career wise, I take it?

194541 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to IanE, #314 of 1839 🔗

Which includes eyebrow pruning.

194562 ▶▶ FlynnQuill, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #315 of 1839 🔗

Its all about the money, Andy Burnham doesn’t give as sh@t abou the people of Manchester. Just like the rest of the councils around the country. Sabre rattling because they have no power at present so are bough off by the government. None of the money will be used to make peoples lives better that have been ruined by this government.

194691 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to FlynnQuill, #316 of 1839 🔗

The Money will be put in their own pension pots.

195054 ▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Bella Donna, #317 of 1839 🔗

Local councils have already paid out over £11 billion to small and medium sized businesses. Why would Manchester lie down and roll over when other areas have been given extra funds?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-grant-funding-local-authority-payments-to-small-and-medium-businesses

194685 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #318 of 1839 🔗

Andy Burnham is as up to his neck in it as the rest of them. This is all just a pantomime. An orchestrated punch and judy show.

Once you realise that, you’ll notice that they are not very good actors. When they try and act out being sympathetic or compassionate, that’s when they slip up because these concepts are alien to them

194696 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to captainbeefheart, 1, #319 of 1839 🔗

As its always said politics is show business for ugly people – they’re no different to good for nothing, overpaid celebs.

194522 Fiat, replying to Fiat, 6, #320 of 1839 🔗

Hancock on the 15th October:
“ I want the time that London is in tier 2 to be as short as possible. The best way we can achieve that is by us all pulling together and following the level 2 rules. In terms of exiting from level 2, the cross-party London group set out a very clear set of criteria on the need to go up a level, including reaching 100 per 100,000 cases on average across London, which we are just about to breach. It is now working with us on what the exit might look like. I totally agree with my hon. Friend on the importance of setting that out to give people the motivation that, if we all pull together and sort this out, we will get out of these measures and people can live their normal lives a bit more.”

It’s all the peoples’ fault now.

194664 ▶▶▶ helen, replying to chaos, #322 of 1839 🔗

Very important link Chaos
Copy pasted last part of speech ..to draw more attention

Speech
The Fourth Industrial Revolution Minister for Digital, Matt Hancock, addresses the All-Party Parliamentary Group on the Fourth Industrial Revolution’s (4IR) Autumn reception
Published 16 October 2017

comment image

It’s all about preparing Britain to take advantage of these extraordinary new technologies.
Earlier this year, the ‘fourth industrial revolution’ was not a very well-known term – at least before it became a central topic at the World Economic Forum . It recently made its way into an item on BBC Breakfast television – this shows we’ve probably started to reach critical mass.
It’s a pleasure now to introduce the man who made the fourth industrial revolution a household phrase: Professor Klaus Schwab.
Published 16 October 2017

194537 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 7, #323 of 1839 🔗

Boris is throwing millions around like confetti. Got me thinking about the Reset and if you knew that your debt was going to be written off, what would I do, Spend. The Financial Reset talks about debt being written off.

194553 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Dan Clarke, #324 of 1839 🔗

They used to call it helicoptor money, just chuck it all around in the hope of stimulating the economy.

194578 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to karenovirus, 1, #325 of 1839 🔗

But this is to crash the economy.

194788 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Dan Clarke, #326 of 1839 🔗

Good point.

194539 captainbeefheart, replying to captainbeefheart, 3, #327 of 1839 🔗

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/17/police-get-access-to-people-told-of-self-isolate-by-nhs-test-and-trace

I wonder if they’ll be armed police – they could put a sniper on an opposite rooftop and blow you brains out if you step outside.

194575 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to captainbeefheart, #328 of 1839 🔗

“A police force may request information relating to positive Covid-19 tests from the NHS Test & Trace programme directly, where they are investigating a report of someone who may not be complying with the mandatory self-isolation period.”

“Investigating a report”: In reality this will likely mean that the Police are routinely passed names and addresses of all who have been required to self-isolate.
And when Operation LunarC is up and running that will be up to a million people a week.

195124 ▶▶ Edward, replying to captainbeefheart, #329 of 1839 🔗

And it would count as another covid death.

194540 leggy, 1, #330 of 1839 🔗

First there was Ferguson – then there was this:

Now this virus is just a mutation of previous COVID it’s not knew in that regard, but it’s very difficult to treat and there’s no cure as of yet. I think 90% of the population will be fine, it’s the other 10% we need to worry about.

10% IFR/CFR? Wonder what model this one is using/.

194545 nickbowes, replying to nickbowes, 11, #331 of 1839 🔗

I hope Lozza Fox`s Reclaim Party can get off the ground. A privileged actor i hear you say !!??
Well look at Reagan, reality tv host Trump, the comedian that created Five Star in Italy , Ukraine..
Anyone really, give me common sense and someone who wants to harpoon this reset bollox.

194566 ▶▶ Mark, replying to nickbowes, 5, #332 of 1839 🔗

Yep. I’ll be behind it now that he’s come out fully antilockdown.

Need an alternative to the Labour/”Conservative” political establishment, that actually represents the very significant numbers of people with traditionalist and conservative opinions in the country, who are currently unrepresented.

194582 ▶▶ kf99, replying to nickbowes, 1, #333 of 1839 🔗

I wonder if he should join forces with David Kurten rather than start yet another party.

194693 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to kf99, 1, #334 of 1839 🔗

Would be good if they can come to an agreement. How’s Kurten on lockdown?

194712 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, 2, #335 of 1839 🔗

He’s spoken at at least one of the rallies

194735 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, #336 of 1839 🔗

Good enough for me.

194593 ▶▶ Julian, replying to nickbowes, 4, #337 of 1839 🔗

SDP and UKIP also I think now openly sceptical

194642 ▶▶ stewart, replying to nickbowes, 1, #338 of 1839 🔗

He’s going to have to come up with something a bit more substantial than standing for sensible, free discourse if he wants to actually break through.

194678 ▶▶▶ Stephanos, replying to stewart, 8, #339 of 1839 🔗

What we DESPERATELY need is a party that promotes small government and low taxes.

  1. Small government means that individuals can get on with life, living it as they wish without interference from busybodies and jobsworths.
  2. Low taxes means that individuals can use their own money in their own way; collectively this means that good decisions will be taken by individuals, bad decisions reversed and/or repented and people take responsibility for themselves.
194702 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Stephanos, 1, #340 of 1839 🔗

There is a Libertarian party but it’s very much a minor operation with no notable figures.

194707 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to nickbowes, 3, #341 of 1839 🔗

I think most of the world’s population is fed up with career politicians. You rarely come across a decent one, most are on the make or take!

194867 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to nickbowes, #342 of 1839 🔗

I fully support the Reclaim party. Must see video he did with Calvin Robinson.
https://twitter.com/LozzaFox/status/1314935151789563905

194547 swedenborg, 3, #343 of 1839 🔗

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/chinese-lockdown-and-mask-model-failed-now-its-proponents-need-scapegoats

An excellent article.The only objection that this is not a true left right issue.Israel,Hungary,Poland and Czechia have had serious lockdowns.Otherwise the article is spot on.Worth a read.

194549 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 10, #344 of 1839 🔗

CommonPass ‘health passport’ being trialed this week at Heathrow:

https://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/389596/covid-health-passport-set-for-heathrow-new-york-flight-trial

What I don’t get at all is the ridiculous ‘negative test with 72 hours of travel’. Can you not catch Covid after the test and before the flight?

194551 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Sarigan, 5, #345 of 1839 🔗

Nothing to do with health.Health passport will be an international I’d system.Soon you will need it to access everyday life.Johnsons Moonshot system

194558 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 3, #346 of 1839 🔗

The true purpose of the vaccine.

194563 ▶▶▶ FenTyger, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 3, #347 of 1839 🔗

Moonshot! Have you ever known any IT system from the government actually work?

194742 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to FenTyger, 1, #348 of 1839 🔗

Nope.

194744 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #349 of 1839 🔗

And that was/is the real intention of this Covid farce!

194560 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Sarigan, 4, #350 of 1839 🔗

Its the ID they want, worldwide ID. Millions of people are on the move, look at the migrants coming over on from France on their dinghies, all with their phones, they want to know where everyone is.

194571 ▶▶ alw, replying to Sarigan, 3, #351 of 1839 🔗

Who is going to turn up at an airport 72 hours before travel and then go back again 72 hours later….this won’t fly, excuse the pun.

194653 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to alw, #352 of 1839 🔗

You don’t have to turn up. Clients travelling now had to have negative test within 72hrs of travel and upload results in order to fly.

194663 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Sarigan, #353 of 1839 🔗

Given the weird scheduling difficulties of people having to travel potentially long distances for their tests and the uncertainty around the time it can take to receive results, this makes booking a ticket risky at best.

194814 ▶▶ Marialta, replying to Sarigan, 1, #354 of 1839 🔗

Its monstrous, I posted this the other day …… it’s absolutely central to the new world that is planned for us by those “who know best” But how could we protest about this? Perhaps we should demonstrate at the airport to get some media coverage?

194837 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to Sarigan, 1, #355 of 1839 🔗

Perhaps this frustration will finally highlight the prevalence and annoyance of false positives? It would be awful to have to cancel at the last minute on the basis of a positive test result when you Are perfectly healthy.

194559 Charlie Blue, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #356 of 1839 🔗

Maybe off topic slightly, but I just heard a radio ad asking men who had had a positive test to come forward to give blood plasma. Anyone know why men’s plasma would be thought more useful for treatment than women’s?

194580 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #357 of 1839 🔗

If you did want to donate you’d have to be muzzled up.

194655 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to arfurmo, #358 of 1839 🔗

I’d also need to acquire a Y chromosome. Both unlikely.

194667 ▶▶▶ steph, replying to arfurmo, 11, #359 of 1839 🔗

I posted last week about being phoned by the Blood and Transplant service after I had cancelled an appointment. I told them it’s because I can’t wear a mask and indeed won’t. I very rapidly got a totally patronising email back with all the usual nonsense about keeping people safe and how most people preferred it and there were no exceptions.
Bearing in mind that I just cancelled quietly online and did not seek an argument but they brought one to me, I have decided that is the end of me giving my finest A+ to a private company profiting from my public spiritedness. That will remain the case no matter what they do about masks in the future

195086 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to steph, 1, #360 of 1839 🔗

My son (60 plus donations) and mask exempt because of panic attacks received the same “claptrap” reply so after almost 30 years of donations; “that’s it, no exemptions” : Well, if a patient dies because of a lack of A+ blood, I hope that the blood and transplant service are proud of themselves.

194717 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Richard Pinch, #362 of 1839 🔗

Thanks, Richard. That makes sense.

194863 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Charlie Blue, #363 of 1839 🔗

More money to be wasted – could have been a false positive test

194569 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 6, #364 of 1839 🔗

How are my fellow sceptics who are sporting their anti lockdown badges getting on?, I have still got my teeth and my eyes are still not black.
Seriously though, the majority don’t seem to even notice it and the few that do including my dentist and hygienist tend to agree with me about the lockdown whilst pushing the hygiene factor ( hand sanitizing/washing etc.)

194583 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Fingerache Philip., 8, #365 of 1839 🔗

Glad you posted this FP. Thanks for the suggestion about the badges. We are wearing them in our shop. No comments yet, but no doubt it will be grist to the mill for those accusing me of being a ‘granny killer’

194588 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to kh1485, 15, #366 of 1839 🔗

I just don’t get why people who feel that strongly about masks and stuff would choose to enter a cafe where they can see the staff are bare-faced, and then moan about it. I mean, I’m sure your cafe is excellent, but why don’t they just go somewhere else?

194590 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Julian, 1, #367 of 1839 🔗

Where is your cafe ?, would love to visit.

194615 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., #368 of 1839 🔗

Sorry; question was meant for Kh 1485.

194620 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., #369 of 1839 🔗

Sorry; question was meant for kh1485.

194606 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Julian, 11, #370 of 1839 🔗

That’s exactly what I think (like the woman who, even though seeing three of us unmasked on Saturday, stayed and then arse-ached about it later).

But you *know* this isn’t about safety. It’s about these people finally having a voice. They’re the kind of sad, miserable, unfulfilled people who suddenly have a chance to lash out at the free-thinkers among us. And boy, are they enjoying their time in the sun.

194857 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 1, #371 of 1839 🔗

They should also remember that their time in the sun won’t last forever.

The time will come when they could end up like those collaborators in France after WW2 or be sued like in Germany after the collapse of the GDR in 1990.

194596 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to kh1485, #372 of 1839 🔗

Where is your shop? Would love to visit.

194609 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Fingerache Philip., 6, #373 of 1839 🔗

The People’s Republic of Saffron Walden.

194633 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to kh1485, #374 of 1839 🔗

Putting it in Google maps now.

194748 ▶▶▶▶▶ pmdl, replying to kh1485, #375 of 1839 🔗

Id love to visit, me and the wife are total sceptics and live very close by South of Cambridge. If you dont want to post the cafe name, i think we can PM.

194850 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kenadams, replying to pmdl, #376 of 1839 🔗

I also live nearby and would happily visit. Again, PM if possible.

194698 ▶▶▶ FenTyger, replying to kh1485, 5, #377 of 1839 🔗

The only “Granny Killer” is Matt Hancock & PHE.

194743 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Fingerache Philip., 6, #378 of 1839 🔗

I’ve been wearing my Everyone Dies t-shirt whenever I go out.

I get some grins and a few side-eyes, but nobody ever engages, one way or the other.

Granted, it’s a fairly strong message, but I would have thought that somebody would say something .

194757 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #379 of 1839 🔗

Where can I get a Anti Lockdown badge?

194776 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #380 of 1839 🔗

Got mine from ebay. Just type in ‘No Lockdown’. I got three for the price of two – £2.99 with free postage.

194853 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #381 of 1839 🔗

Two-Six makes them.

194965 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #382 of 1839 🔗

I still have about 30 left.

194888 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Bella Donna, #383 of 1839 🔗

Ebay or Amazon.

196088 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Fingerache Philip., #384 of 1839 🔗

neither but you can email me at: two-six@twang.co.uk if you like

195344 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #385 of 1839 🔗

I’ve just published up a simple “ Masks are bad for your health ” badge on Redbubble.

Not a particularly strong message, but the idea was to get people to visibly show resistance. A moderate message seemed like a reasonable starting place.

That said, it’s dead easy for me to churn out different logos, so I’m happy to create badges with whatever sceptic logos people want.

The Redbubble badges are only a couple of quid each, but they’ll probably screw you on the postage. I’ll post the image files on my site so people can make their own if they like.

Perhaps I’ll dig out our old Super Badge It! from the attic.

194570 Gman, replying to Gman, 20, #386 of 1839 🔗

I am pleased to report a decent number of non-compliance this morning with the schools edict that masks must be worn on school grounds. I would say around 30% weren’t wearing masks (mainly dads) and this is even before the school has emailed everyone to remind people that there are exemptions, which they have promised to do later today.

I was also at the march on Saturday and whilst it made me feel better being surrounded by like minding people and sticking two fingers up to anti-social distancing, I cant help but feel disappointed by how disorganised things seem.

I know I don’t have much of a right to criticise as this was my first rally but they really need to sort out some kind of decent portable sound system so that passers by could hear what was being said rather than just preaching to the choir. There are surely enough people including me who would be willing to donate towards this.

I also think that it is important to get normal people to speak about how they have been affected. The most uplifting part of the day for me was a guy who passionately said “I am a DJ who has lost his job, we are now living in a world where we cant dance. Well I don’t want to live in a world where I cant fucking Dance!!!” It is these kinds of real people with passion that I think will resonate with the general public more than Piers Corbyn & David Icke.

194574 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Gman, 6, #387 of 1839 🔗

Women are more compliant than men. That’s why the teaching profession loves them as cannon fodder. More than 90% of primary school teachers are female and 65% of secondary.

194786 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to chaos, 1, #388 of 1839 🔗

I didn’t mean that in a derogatory way by the way. Women are abused at work and such due to their generally somewhat less confronting attitudes.

194656 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Gman, 6, #389 of 1839 🔗

I assume this event was in London. Are the rallies scheduled for every weekend – it would be good if a real powerful one could be organised for the 11th November, contrasting the expected blatherings from the politicians on the fight for freedom and tyranny. As a one-time supporter of the royal family, the queen has failed her country miserably – any previous life service has now, imho, been totally eliminated. God help us when Charles succeeds.

194573 Basics, replying to Basics, 6, #390 of 1839 🔗

the Scottish book cooking asterisk has been there for 2 weeks at least. The weird wrong and uncalculatable % number has been a tranditional mainstay of Scottish Government reporting and SNP furst minister pulpit daily reporting. The percentage has not related to the daily number of new test figure since covud was a twinkle in a pandolin’s eye.

194608 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 3, #391 of 1839 🔗

What, you mean they are fibbing??

194670 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, 2, #392 of 1839 🔗

I think of it more as a bakery, or indeed more as a stick of rock factory where, instead of forming Blackpool, they work hard to produce a ‘fuck you’ running through all.

194584 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 10, #393 of 1839 🔗

Shouldn’t the recent ONE case of “coronavirus positive test” in NZ prove that no matter what you do a virus will spread and you cannot stop it like the Terminator?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-ship-bound-for-brisbane-likely-source-of-transmission-ashley-bloomfield/WJIDKNHMGIQ2KOEC33ISZJYEHY/

So he was in full PPE, obeyed all social distancing rules etc etc blah blah blah and he still got a positive test – but it is not confirmed he got it from a member of the ship’s crew. They still don’t know.

Why is the MSM, politicians, sceptic journalists like Toby and independent scientists shouting this out loudly at every opportunity as it proves that the policies they are following do not and will not ever work?

Last night my wife (who says she is not the brainiest person around but she keeps underestimating herself in this regard) noticed this and pointed it out.

194662 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #394 of 1839 🔗

Your wife must be ultra intelligent just to keep pace with yourself.

Sridhar has been instructional about the covid elimination fantasy approach. Could it be that her decrees become subject to the media blackout that has been placed upon msm. See Eamon Holmes in Denise Welch interview pointing this fact out. He didn’t reference where the blackout was enforced from, Ofcom or government directly.

194683 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Awkward Git, #395 of 1839 🔗

Jacinda has won the election so she should let it rip hoping everyone will have forgotten by the next one.

194751 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Awkward Git, #396 of 1839 🔗

It’s probably just confirmation bias at work.

Facts don’t produce beliefs. Beliefs filter facts.

194779 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mabel Cow, 2, #397 of 1839 🔗

It might also relate to the development of hypochondriac obsessive traits. The sort where you get a midge bite and start worrying about malaria.

194589 Arnie, replying to Arnie, 102, #398 of 1839 🔗

4.05am Sunday morning.
Hysterical phone call from my business partners 20yr old daughter. ‘Dad’s dead’. She’d been out late with her boyfriend & come home to find her Dad hanging in the hallway.

I’m totally numb. We set up in business in Jan 2019 making parts for racing motorcycle engines. £50k between us, most of our life’s savings. £350k from government & private investors. When covid came along the contracts we had one by one started being broken by the people we were supplying.

On Friday the business folded leaving 12 staff with no pay. We put everything into this, it was the product of our lifetimes experience.

My business partner was the strongest, toughest businessman that I’d ever met. I was the ‘boffin’, I had the ‘knowledge’…

I’m numb. Can’t even cry. Two of my ex-forces friends have already committed suicide this year. Both my young kids were diagnosed with depression last month.

I’m not going to do anything stupid, that’s not me but I don’t know where I’m going to find the strength to help Dave’s daughter.

So it’s personal now, actually it always was but I, like so many others, had just been trying to survive. I thought that I knew what hate meant but I’m just beginning to realise that I knew nothing about what it really meant.

194598 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Arnie, 40, #399 of 1839 🔗

Oh dear, I am so sorry to hear of your loss. Another pointless death.

Another death politicians / media / lockdown fanatics have on their hands.

Shame on them all.

194602 ▶▶▶ reason, replying to captainbeefheart, 17, #400 of 1839 🔗

Amen to that.

194599 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Arnie, 38, #401 of 1839 🔗

My condolences, be strong.

Never give up, Never give in.

Never forgive, never forget.

194610 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 13, #402 of 1839 🔗

Put your story on here – he may actually learn something but as he is a soulless psychopath with no human empathy or feelings except greed for power he won’t care but one of his staff might.

194632 ▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to Awkward Git, 33, #403 of 1839 🔗

Iraq, Afghan, nope won’t be giving up. I’d rather die fighting than sitting waiting. It’s terrifying that this covid shit is eating some really strong people. Thank folks for your sympathy, appreciate it, just fucking numb, numb! Brains not working so good atm so thanks guys. Arnie.

194604 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Arnie, 21, #404 of 1839 🔗

I’m speechless, my condolences to you and the families involved.

I truly hope there is a reckoning and those culpable get what is coming and what they deserve.

194613 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Arnie, 22, #405 of 1839 🔗

I am so sorry.
Let them all know. Shame them all. Politicians, Sage, MSM.
There aren’t words enough for the pain.

194618 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Arnie, 17, #406 of 1839 🔗

So sorry. I’m back on a low dose antidep. Don’t want to make this about me, but the only reason I am able to manage on low dose antidep is because natural supplements such as glycine, inositol, acetyl carnitine, and magnesium also help (most of the time) to stop me (for the moment) doing anything drastic. Just sharing in case others want to research these supps. Sorry about your loss. Suicide (and car accident) are main cause of death in men under 30. It then settles. And peaks again aged 50 ish. Women try ‘suicide’ more, but men succeed more. A cry for help is serious obviously regardless.

194628 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Arnie, 20, #407 of 1839 🔗

It has occured to me that what is needed is a lockdown website that shares personal letters about such e.g. suicide and old people not getting visitors from family members. A site to catalog this carnage so it isn’t forgotten and to put pressure on our Oxbridge MP’s.

194689 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to chaos, 4, #408 of 1839 🔗

I agree. I have my own website and it’s not that difficult, ‘chaos’ – this is something you could undertake yourself. You can post anonymously while you await permission.

194761 ▶▶▶▶ chaos, replying to Rosie, 4, #409 of 1839 🔗

Well.. I wangled ages ago premium unlimited hosting domain space from a certain well known hosting company for about £7. I guess I should use it for something.. I can just about get to grips with wordpress.

194771 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to chaos, 5, #410 of 1839 🔗

I’m sure there will be plenty of people to help if you go onto LS forums and ask

194777 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ chaos, replying to Rosie, 2, #411 of 1839 🔗

good idea.

194785 ▶▶▶ Marialta, replying to chaos, 19, #412 of 1839 🔗

We don’t hear much about children with disabilities like my grandson who is 4 & and can’t walk due to cerebral palsy. Many of these children are awaiting life changing spinal and orthopaedic ops which have been delayed for months & months. They can’t get their treatments by NHS or privately due to closures.Essential physiotherapy ,occupational therapy and loads of their assessments and referrals have just stopped. The parents are left to manage or offered bloody Zoom sessions – I know cos I help out

194634 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Arnie, 22, #413 of 1839 🔗

My sincere condolences. I will never forgive these people for what they are doing.

194636 ▶▶ steph, replying to Arnie, 23, #414 of 1839 🔗

Arnie, so very sorry for your loss and particularly for the pain your partner’s family is going through.
A few weeks back we emailed our MP (the Home Secretary). Amongst many points we made was the fact that we know of no deaths for Covid in our circle of friends or friends of friends / relatives, but we do know of 3 suicides. No reply of course.

194639 ▶▶ davews, replying to Arnie, 13, #415 of 1839 🔗

Oh gosh, what can I say. That is awful.

194644 ▶▶ Sara, replying to Arnie, 15, #416 of 1839 🔗

Praying for you. Praying for Dave’s daughter. Praying for sanity in this world.

194665 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Arnie, 14, #417 of 1839 🔗

Very, very sorry to hear this. My deepest condolences.

The government and lockdownistas have blood in their hands. The day of reckoning can’t come soon enough.

194668 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Arnie, 13, #418 of 1839 🔗

Absolutely horrible news for all of you, I am so very sorry. This story needs to be told more widely.

194675 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Arnie, 14, #419 of 1839 🔗

Good grief! Words are totally inadequate.

You have to stay strong for your own children That’s always our first responsibiity.

Never forget. Never forgive.

194677 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Arnie, 18, #420 of 1839 🔗

I’m so very, very sorry. How utterly wretched. I know what you mean about “hate”.

194679 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Arnie, 15, #421 of 1839 🔗

Sorry for your troubles Arnie, is there a way of flagging this up for Toby’s attention ?

194692 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Arnie, 15, #422 of 1839 🔗

So sorry Arnie. Your tears may never come, it gets to that point – but me and the others here are crying for you.

194701 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Arnie, 13, #423 of 1839 🔗

Such pointless devastation for his family and for you. I’m so very sorry for your loss. This is just too sad.

194709 ▶▶ Stephanos, replying to Arnie, 10, #424 of 1839 🔗

Like everyone here I do feel for you. Prayers and best wishes. So sorry.

194718 ▶▶ James007, replying to Arnie, 15, #425 of 1839 🔗

I’m so sorry for your loss, and I hope you have some loving and caring people around you.
What has happened is outrageous. Began this year so optimistically, how far we have fallen so quickly. I still can’t believe the level of suffering inflicted on so many, and the lack of opposition or questioning. We should never forget.
Feel for you and your family.

194723 ▶▶ Gtec, replying to Arnie, 9, #426 of 1839 🔗

I am lost for words, and wish you all condolences and strength for the future, and for your business partners family.

194731 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Arnie, 22, #427 of 1839 🔗

Words cannot express my sadness and anger I am feeling. I am so sorry to hear your devastating news and all my thoughts and prayers for all those affected. If you can be strong, your story needs to be shared far and wide and make people understand the real, painful and utterly destructive impact this is having on people, their lives and their mental wellbeing. I too am on the cusp of losing 18 years of hard work building up a business, it hurts beyond measure but pale in comparison to losing a loved one in such a way.

194739 ▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to Arnie, 6, #428 of 1839 🔗

I am so sorry for you and all those who knew and loved him. I have had looks of horror when I have said that this government are evil bastards and should hang for the all the deaths they have caused and will continue to do so.

194905 ▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Mrs issedoff, 3, #429 of 1839 🔗

A fair percentage of people I have spoke to agreed with “evil bastards who should hang” without any argument. People are getting angrier (which may be the government’s intention)

194755 ▶▶ Tim Paton, replying to Arnie, 10, #430 of 1839 🔗

Arnie this is horrendous..I am so sorry for the loss you are feeling. Certain members of the media should be publicly shamed for sad sad events like this

194836 ▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Tim Paton, 6, #431 of 1839 🔗

Shaming is not going to be enough. They deserve a very long stretch in prison at the very least.

194766 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Arnie, 11, #432 of 1839 🔗

Condolences – for what they’re worth.

This is what the lying exaggeration and flannel conceals as the true cost.

Was talking to a neighbour whom is a psychiatrist yesterday – mental health problems are rocketing.

194789 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to RickH, 5, #433 of 1839 🔗

Yes it’s appalling. A friend has a 10 year old with anxiety that makes it hard to get him out of the house. He says he thinks the waiting list for Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services is about 18 months.

194775 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Arnie, 2, #434 of 1839 🔗

This is why also I admire those that just get on with life expecting this Davos insanity to end. But obviously if business goes belly up that is hard. I can only imagine.

194801 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Arnie, 7, #435 of 1839 🔗

That is awful beyond words Arnie,please accept my sincere condolences.

194803 ▶▶ Emily Tock, replying to Arnie, 6, #436 of 1839 🔗

I am so very, very sorry for your troubles. My sincerest condolences to you and your partner’s family.

194816 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Arnie, 9, #437 of 1839 🔗

We’re so sorry, Arnie. It’s not much comfort but you have a lot of friends on here and you can be sure we’ll be telling people about this. MW and AG

194987 ▶▶ James Bertram, replying to Arnie, 4, #438 of 1839 🔗

I’ve no words for this, Arnie. Just very sorry.

195091 ▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Arnie, 3, #439 of 1839 🔗

Sheer tragedy Arnie, so sorry to hear of this. it has GOT TO STOP.

195147 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Arnie, 3, #440 of 1839 🔗

My sincere condolences to you and your friend’s family. 🙁

195546 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Arnie, 4, #441 of 1839 🔗

So sorry to hear that, I just don’t think I can find the right words to express my disgust and anger at what this Government is doing to people. Please accept my condolences to you and your partner’s family.

194611 nickbowes, replying to nickbowes, 3, #442 of 1839 🔗

Another week before school half terms begin – my 9 year old`s primary (in Durham) has been pretty positive all said and done and so far, school has been near enough “school” as i could hope for her with all this. Another school shut down will be the end of this putrid Government and hopefully they realize this.

194669 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to nickbowes, 1, #443 of 1839 🔗

6th Form College is closing for two weeks, one for half term followed by a week online learning in expectation of a two week ‘circuit break’ from johnson.

194688 ▶▶▶ nickbowes, replying to karenovirus, 4, #444 of 1839 🔗

I am glad i went to University in 1991 but despair for the young people today – hopefully they will remember all this when it comes to voting.

194759 ▶▶ RickH, replying to nickbowes, 6, #445 of 1839 🔗

Another school shut down will be the end of this putrid Government and hopefully they realize this.”

I see no evidence that this is the case, unfortunately.

People may be pissed off with the inconvenience, but I see an awful lot of willingness to put up with more and more egregious restrictions.

194832 ▶▶ Julian, replying to nickbowes, 4, #446 of 1839 🔗

Universities are still shut down – almost 100% online learning, campus access restricted, many communal areas closed, society activity severely restricted. No discount. No-one is shouting about this. The government have got away with it.

195254 ▶▶▶ Felice, replying to Julian, #447 of 1839 🔗

Agree. There was a fair amount of coverage given to the university situation at the beginning, but now, almost nothing. The government have weathered the storm, the public has lost interest and moved on to the next scandal.
It reminds me of the horrible kidnapping of the school girls in one of those African states, by boko haram. Michelle Obama’s ‘bring back our girls’ hashtag was trending everywhere, it is nowhere to be seen now, and many of the girls are still missing.

195299 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Felice, #448 of 1839 🔗

There was coverage of unis going online at the start of lockdown, though not as much as schools closing, and some coverage during the summer of them planning online only, and lots about testing and imprisonment in their halls, but it was never anything like the “will schools reopen or not” issue. If you asked a lot of people if unis were open or closed they would probably say they were open, but that’s not really true. I wrote to one and asked them why they were shut and the schools were open and their answer was “government guidelines”. I can’t seem them ever properly reopening. Having to cater for physical students is just a pain.

194616 Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #449 of 1839 🔗

The swivel eye DELVE advisor appeared on GMB tv at somepoint today or recently. The comments are well worth reading as they answer the posed question “Oh, I have a question: Is Devi stupid or does she think we are?”

https://twitter.com/Albion_Rover/status/1318085739175989248?s=20


Good Morning Britain
@GMB
· 2h
“‘The longer we put off taking the action to bring the infection under control the longer it will last.’

“Prof @devisridhar explains why she is calling for a longer and sharper national lockdown.

“She says everyday wasted discussing it means we will be in a lockdown for longer.”

40 Sec Clip of Sirdhar is breakfast raising.

194648 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #450 of 1839 🔗

There’s more from Sridhar telling us what we in Great Britain should have done.

Good Morning Britain
@GMB
·
2h
Replying to
@GMB
‘There needs to be a gameplan and a pay-off because people are sacrificing a lot.’

@devisridhar says it was a mistake to encourage people to go abroad on holiday and not ensuring they isolate on their return.

She says the country should’ve pursued a ‘Covid-free approach’.


No comment from myself – it’s not needed

194916 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Basics, 1, #451 of 1839 🔗

she was also one of the “experts” on the C4 covid debate programme last night (sunday) where she was given lots of airtime (and unchallenged) to spout the same rubbish .

194661 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, #452 of 1839 🔗

She clearly does not understand that reason the North Country has been put back under lockdown is because they were already shielding when the Covid paid its first visit in the spring.

194671 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Basics, 3, #453 of 1839 🔗

“She says everyday wasted discussing it means we will be in a lockdown for longer.”

That is only correct if the objective, stated or unstated, is to eliminate the virus completely. As I’ve said elsewhere, the rather stark trilemma we are faced with is

  1. Achieve herd immunity: that is, arrange for a sufficiently large proportion of the population to become immune to the disease so that it fails to spread when people are behaving in a normal fashion. This can be done in two ways: (A) Naturally. Wait for enough people to catch it and develop herd immunity; or (B) Artificially. Develop a vaccine that produces immunity, and in the meantime suppress the spread by restricting peoples behaviour so that it fails to spread.
  2. Suppress the spread by restricting peoples behaviour indefinitely so that it fails to spread.
  3. Eliminate the virus by restricting peoples behaviour so that it ceases to spread and dies out in the population.

None of these is scientifically preposterous, although there are scientific questions attached to all of them. Which of the scientifically plausible strategies is acceptable and comes at least cost in other directions (social, economic and health) is another matter and is partly scientific and partly political.

Prof. Sridhar believes, I think, in strategy 3. It is true that current experience suggests that this strategy can only work with a sustained, severe lockdown, and from that point of view of course it would have to start at once.

But we have not chosen that strategy.

194756 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Richard Pinch, 6, #454 of 1839 🔗

In terms of ‘we’ – you forgot a fourth one (admittedly one that overlaps with the natural herd immunity option) :

Behave as one would for any seasonal virus and get society functioning again within a normal range of caution.

Because the overall effects of this virus are well within the normal range. What isn’t normal is the massive collateral damage being chosen by policy makers.

I have yet yo see any substantive evidence that this is not so.

194764 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to RickH, 1, #455 of 1839 🔗

I think you’re right, in that option 0 is always “Do nothing”. But I don’t think that is acceptable in its starkest form, so didn’t mention it. Your suggestion, I think, is more “do nothing special except for applying suitable safeguards to those at risk” and I think that comes under 1 — it is essentially 1A, the Great Barrington option.

194762 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Richard Pinch, 3, #456 of 1839 🔗

Regarding Strategy 3, isn’t that what New Zealand are doing?

It seems utterly unfeasible to me – a non-starter. Richard Pinch as you say none of these is scientifically preposterous, can you sketch out how you would see (3) working?

194783 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Julian, #457 of 1839 🔗

Scientifically there is no reason to believe that you cannot eliminate the virus from a closed population by stringent social measures. But the devil is in the detail. To maintain your virus-free status, and in the absence of universal immunity, you have to prevent the virus from re-entering your closed system. That is clearly possible, but the question is whether you want to pay the price for it. Such as mass starvation.

By the way, I say, clearly possible, but that’s still an opinion about something which is a scientific question. One would need to know things like, whether the virus can be spread by birds, fish, floating seaweed or other things capable of reaching an island from regions where the virus is still in existence.

The modified, or New Zealand, system: let’s say 3B, is to close down almost completely but allow a small risk of virus arriving, for example, in food shipments. Again there’s a scientific question of the level of risk posed by, say, frozen meat, versus the ability of a testing system to rapidly trace and isolate those infected by incoming virus.

194807 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Richard Pinch, #458 of 1839 🔗

Ok, thanks. I think 3A may be “scientifically” possible but would kill the patient. 3B will possibly kill the patient slowly, and may only be possible for places with a very low incidence already, that are geographically isolated and can control their borders. I guess it comes back to what is “possible” vs. the costs and benefits.

195145 ▶▶▶▶▶ GCarty80, replying to Richard Pinch, #459 of 1839 🔗

Isn’t one reason why the eradication policy is more plausible for New Zealand the fact that (largely thanks to its low population density) it doesn’t depend on imported food as the UK does?

194699 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Basics, 1, #460 of 1839 🔗

“She says everyday wasted discussing it means we will be in a lockdown for longer.”
Same argument they’ve been using for global warming, that the time for debate is over.

194719 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Basics, 2, #461 of 1839 🔗

if we waste enough time, the cases will just come down of their own accord

194734 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Basics, 3, #462 of 1839 🔗

She’s on the list

194619 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #463 of 1839 🔗

Danish Face mask Study RCT Repost from yesterday night

https://pubpeer.com/publications/47865E80A829070D6D64DDB57F3A70

Even before the paper is published(or NOT published) in Aug this letter was sent to the Danish Medical association from Project Fear and Lockdownfanatics in US. They object to the study design etc and has serious concerns that this study might undermine the mask argument in a false way.Therefore they warn that it should not be published.
I can’t judge whether they are correct in criticising the design of the study and technicalities but really interesting how the mask fanatics go to this length even before it is published or not.They might be rattled.

194700 ▶▶ DeepBlueYonder, replying to swedenborg, 4, #464 of 1839 🔗

Surely if there were a problem with the research design, that would emerge in the peer review process once the article had been submitted to a journal and an editor had decided it had sufficient merit to be peer-reviewed prior to possible publication?

194737 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to DeepBlueYonder, 4, #465 of 1839 🔗

Exactly. The overwhelming desire of the Covid crazy to censor is circumstantial proof of their fear of being sussed – i.e of a balanced narrative emerging and lies being exposed.

194724 ▶▶ djaustin, replying to swedenborg, 3, #466 of 1839 🔗

The Danish study uses what is known as an “Intent To Treat (ITT)” analysis. Essentially this is the most robust method of inference. If in a clinical trial you are randomised to treatment and decide to throw it away rather than take it at all, then even if the treatment works, your action will have diluted the effect – if the treatment STILL is shown to work, then it is a robust finding.

194747 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to djaustin, 1, #467 of 1839 🔗

I think the scientific concern is that the study is under-powered, that is, there are so few participants in the study that it is unlikely to show a statistically significant result even if the effect is real. This is a legitimate concern in general, although I can’t say whether it is justified in this particular case.

In general underpowered tests that lead to conclusions that “we can’t tell” are a waste of time and not likely to be published at all. But that’s a minor concern. The writers of the letter are concerned that, should the test fail to detect a significant difference, and that result were to be published, then it might be misinterpreted not as having failed to show a different, but as having shown no difference — the evidence of absence rather than the absence of evidence. This is not unreasonable, but both proponents and opponents of various health measures have to live with misreporting by the media.

However, what is interesting is that it claims that the test is not powerful on the following basis

The sample size calculation assumes at least a 50% relative risk reduction; this is unreasonably high given that it is the product of both compliance behavior and mask protective effects.

and support the claim that this is unreasonable this by saying

The effect size would surely be smaller than that found in three observational studies collectively showing that actually wearing masks outside the healthcare setting reduced the odds of SARS infection by less than 50%

Some opponents of mask mandates might want to seize on that number. However, it is important to note that this is a study of the protection of the wearer of the mask. It isn’t about the effect of the mask in preventing spread of infection from the wearer, which is the claimed rationale for making them mandatory.

Still, what’s sauce for the goose, etc. Should the authors of this caveat have published a comment which is itself liable to misinterpretation?

194797 ▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #468 of 1839 🔗

Powering is always a risk to the sponsor in any trial. Normally you decide how big an effect would be clinically meaningful (50% is a big effect), decide how often you are prepared to miss a difference that big by chance (2/10 is the going rate, but sometimes to be conservative 1/10 or even 1/20). Then run the trial and look at the effect. Can the null hypothesis (there is no difference) be rejected at the 5% level? Big effects need few subjects, small effects are, well, small!. Look at Remdesivir effects – it needs several 1000 patients to separate placebo and active treatments. A good antiviral would only need several hundred.

Then there is the issue of clinical vs. statistical significance. I always use Brexit as the example – there was a staggeringly statistically significant difference due to the 33M sample size. The likelihood of a 4% difference in a population that large is about 1 in 10^-22! However the magnitude of the difference (4%) is not really politically significant – this was not defined prior to the experiment (poll). Unlike entry, where a politically significant difference (67-33) was obtained. Pre-definition of a politically significant or clinically margin is the cornerstone of referenda and clinical trials.

Sometimes trials fail because they are underpowered for the true effect. That doesn’t absolutely rule out an effect, it rules out a big effect.

195195 ▶▶▶▶▶ Commander Jameson, replying to djaustin, 2, #469 of 1839 🔗

I suspect the number of events in both groups in this trial will be too small to support the conclusion that masks work.

I have to say, the letter is the first time I’ve seen anyone complain that a trial is biased towards the null hypothesis! A trial in which residual and uncontrollable bias is towards the null hypothesis is a well designed trial. It’s almost as if the mask zealots have forgotten that it is their job to find evidence in favour of theiir hypothesis, not our job to find evidence against it.

195634 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Commander Jameson, #470 of 1839 🔗

Yes, science vs. The Science

195112 ▶▶ TJN, replying to swedenborg, 2, #471 of 1839 🔗

Given that putting a bit of cloth between two hamster cages and measuring the degree of covid transmission is considered sufficiently rigorous science to argue in favour of masks, one wonders just how amateurish the Danish study has to be to preclude publication.

194631 BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 8, #472 of 1839 🔗

https://youtu.be/c7f2NhJjUiw

Anti lockdown protests yesterday in Belfast. 500 or so crowd. Peaceful.

The police scenes were not good. In one incident they threw a woman to the ground and two officers sat on her.

194652 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 6, #473 of 1839 🔗

They obviously watched yesterdays Romanian police training movie.

194637 Mike Collins, replying to Mike Collins, 4, #474 of 1839 🔗

I think the conspiracy theorists have got me, I can’t help wondering if Boris is letting Burnham have his way because it’s a win-win for Boris. If it fails Boris will shrug his shoulders and say “I told you so”, alternatively if Burnham is proved right it gives Boris ammunition to fight SAGE and future tier 3 events.

I’ve witnessed business leaders do it with department managers in large corporate situations, give people enough rope to hoist themselves or be successful. Either way the CEO gets their way. Fanciful thinking I guess, but I’m clutching at straws now. Nobody (hopefully) could be as incompetent as Boris is behaving presently

194651 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Mike Collins, 1, #475 of 1839 🔗

is there an updated site with manchester ‘cases’, admissions etc? i heard it was levelling off. if they can hold out for another week…………..

194706 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Mike Collins, 4, #476 of 1839 🔗

What you describe is ruthless political manoevering – I think it’s time to retire the term ‘conspiracy theory’ – it doesn’t help.

194715 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Rosie, 3, #477 of 1839 🔗

agree. and I think in terms of the wider conspiracy theories, many people believe them because they can’t believe our politicians and civil servants can be that thick – but they really can and really are

194733 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Rosie, 6, #478 of 1839 🔗

It’s not even ‘ruthless’. In this respect (and I’m no supporter of this ‘city mayor’ concept or Burnham as an individual), Burnham is just doing a job : screwing the fat lying bastard at the centre of the web.

Manchester has no other benefits to glean from this any more than the rest of the country.

194799 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, 4, #479 of 1839 🔗

Fair point, but in an ideal world Burnham would at the same time denounce lockdowns as useless and damaging

194854 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Mike Collins, 6, #480 of 1839 🔗

Conspiracy Theories

194638 Squire Western, replying to Squire Western, 5, #481 of 1839 🔗

For we sceptics it is surely good news that Boris has bribed Andy Burnham in Manchester with £100 million to accept tier 3 status. The inevitable corollary will be that in future nowhere will accept a lockdown without a substantial payment.

194646 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Squire Western, 4, #482 of 1839 🔗

It just incentivises more LDs though, as with Essex CC.

194647 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Squire Western, 7, #483 of 1839 🔗

How much of that £100 million will filter down to those small businesses and self employed about to go bust ?

194721 ▶▶▶ Stephanos, replying to karenovirus, 3, #484 of 1839 🔗

None at all is my guess, but I think you knew that.

194871 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to karenovirus, 1, #485 of 1839 🔗

None of that will filter down to those who need it the most. It’s like the Culture and Heritage fund – bribery pure and simple.

These nincompoops should realise that the money won’t last forever.

194681 ▶▶ TyRade, replying to Squire Western, 2, #486 of 1839 🔗

‘Covid troughers’ James DElingpole might say

194725 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to TyRade, 2, #487 of 1839 🔗

Snout and both front trotters. Twas ever thus.

195113 ▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Sam Vimes, #488 of 1839 🔗

Local councils have already paid out over £11 billion to small and medium sized businesses, no reason to suppose this will not continue.

194768 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Squire Western, 2, #489 of 1839 🔗

I would take more heart from it if we were still on the gold standard.

The Bank of England can lend £100 million into existence in the blink of a transistor.

194643 Kevin 2, replying to Kevin 2, 17, #490 of 1839 🔗

About 200,000 hospitality workers in central London will lose their jobs this weekend as tier 2 coronavirus lockdown restrictions are imposed, the industry body’s chief executive has warned.
UK Hospitality chief executive Kate Nicholls said the tier 2 lockdown, which prohibits people from separate households from mixing, is a “maximum squeeze on revenue with no support”.
She said it would be better for some businesses in central London to be forced to close under tier 3 restrictions in order to access government funding
“If you go into level three you are getting support if you are closed so at least we would have something to pay the teams and a grant to cover overheads and costs,” Nicholls told the BBC.
“So for businesses in this part of the capital it would probably be better to be closed.
“The pain of tier two is that you have no government support, and that’s what we need the government to urgently address.
“Otherwise you are going to have about 200,000 people in central London losing their jobs this weekend.”
Pret a Manger has already announced today that the second wave of infection and subsequent lockdown has led to it cutting a further 400 roles in London, on top of the more than 2,000 jobs axed since the pandemic began.
Yesterday Nicholls said the London lockdown restrictions would be the “death knell” for the industry.
Meanwhile, Richard Burge, chief executive of the London Chamber of Commerce, said central London will be particularly impacted by the lockdown as people reduce public transport use.
“With no non-household mixing allowed indoors and a reduction in journeys on public transport requested, Tier 2 will hit London’s hospitality sector hard, particularly in its centre,” he said.
“There is bound to also be an impact on retail.
“Hospitality businesses are between the rock and hard place. Their trade is impacted by the restrictions, yet there’s not sufficient support available to help them to stay open.
“Many would rather be in a Tier 3 area, as at least if they were required to close by law they would be able to access grants and the more generous furlough scheme.”

https://www.cityam.com/london-lockdown-200000-hospitality-workers-to-lose-jobs-this-weekend-industry-body-warns/

It has to be intentional.

194767 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Kevin 2, 5, #491 of 1839 🔗

Cue Khan agitating for Tier 3, as early as next week I predict.

194885 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #492 of 1839 🔗

Then start wailing on Twitter that London’s economy will go under and go cap in hand to beg for more money.

194657 peter, replying to peter, 8, #493 of 1839 🔗

No wonder they unleashed the Covid Hoax to stop Trump
Confirmed: Trump Has Footage Of Hunter Biden Raping And Torturing Little Girls — Set To Release Alex Jones breaks down the bombshell developments surrounding Hunter Biden’s hard drive, which allegedly contain thousands of images and videos of sexually explicit material, including Hunter raping and torturing underage Chinese girls. President Trump is reportedly in possession of Hunter’s hard drive and is preparing to release it to the public.”
https://www.infowars.com/posts/confirmed-trump-has-footage-of-hunter-biden-raping-and-torturing-little-girls-set-to-release/

194672 ▶▶ nickbowes, replying to peter, 3, #494 of 1839 🔗

They, the cult behind “covid”, are also torturing Julian Assange because he had the audacity of releasing emails relating to John Podesta`s “fast food” preferences in 2016. .

194694 ▶▶ VickyA, replying to peter, 6, #495 of 1839 🔗

And yet when you search “Hunter Biden” on BBC news you get nothing. The DM to its credit has something, but this is a clear illustration of censorship writ large and how much of MSM is compromised.

194763 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to VickyA, 3, #496 of 1839 🔗

Try typing ‘ happy white woman ‘ into google. My point is it is beyond censoring there is a false reality being shaped around us. Not by accident.

I realise everyone knows this, sharing such clear msm attacks and abuses is powerful.

194873 ▶▶▶▶ D B, replying to Basics, 1, #497 of 1839 🔗

follow up with a happy black woman search

194896 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to D B, #498 of 1839 🔗

interesting comparison of the two groups of images …
so the implications are that a white woman is only happy with a black man.. but a black woman is only happy without a black man,.

but regardless, a clear subliminal message

195170 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to mjr, 3, #499 of 1839 🔗

Notice how many mixed race couples are on TV and in the adverts including lesbian couples?

Been increasing rapidly the last few years.

195714 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Awkward Git, #500 of 1839 🔗

We often have a competition to spot a specific ethnicity in these sorts of adverts or see if we can spot a whole family that isnt mixed. We’re not bothered – it just doesn’t seem proportionate of the population as a whole. I think the first time we noticed this skewing of reality was in the tv programmes our children watched as toddlers – 15 or 16 years ago.

194880 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Basics, #501 of 1839 🔗

Humm I see what you mean. Incredible.

194907 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to VickyA, 1, #502 of 1839 🔗

also following my communication with wikipedia about the panning of GBD entry. i note that Hunter Biden entry also doesnt allude to any of this

194703 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to peter, 8, #503 of 1839 🔗

I’m not sure that people on here are quite ready for things like this yet. If true, most people still won’t believe it.

I wonder what Prince Andrew is up to…

194769 ▶▶▶ VickyA, replying to captainbeefheart, 4, #504 of 1839 🔗

Probably not. But I have been reading about this stuff for over 10 years and if it comes out there will definitely be cognitive dissonance with most people who have been believing all the BBC tells them. Pertinent to the modus operandi is what is behind our own politicians doing what they are doing? I hope nothing as sinister…I know there has been a debate on conspiracy versus cock up here. I’d like to believe the latter although I don’t dismiss outright the more loaded view any more.

194855 ▶▶▶ Mutineer, replying to captainbeefheart, 1, #505 of 1839 🔗

Out of context but every time I see your name I want to say ‘Fast and Bulbous, Mascara Snake’. I’ll get my coat……………….

194861 ▶▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Mutineer, 4, #506 of 1839 🔗

🙂 you don’t have to get your coat.

My mate Frank once said:

“””
The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it’s profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.
“””

I feel like Acid…

194921 ▶▶ Mayo, replying to peter, -3, #507 of 1839 🔗

Even if this were true, I doubt it would cause many voters to switch. The electorate are anti-Trump rather than pro-Biden.

It sounds like a last desperate throw of the dice to me.

195177 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Mayo, 1, #508 of 1839 🔗

Still trying it on Bayo?

The Democrats arte losing big time and stealing the election, read some real independent news and now whatever you seem to be getting your daily dose of fantasy from.

Explain the attached scan.

194708 Will, 26, #509 of 1839 🔗

Another day, another cancelled appointment from the shit show NHS. Never mind clapping them, all I wish on them is a dose of the clap.

194720 RickH, replying to RickH, 20, #510 of 1839 🔗

Tens of thousands of demonstrators rallied in the Place de la Reublique “

This is a curious one when you think about it.

‘Tens of thousands’ affirm the right to free speech and demonstrate against loathsome anti-human perversions of religion. Good.

… but this is about the action of one aberrant individual from an extreme fringe.

Meanwhile – where are the same numbers protesting about the loss of a whole swathe of freedoms imposed by government – not at the fringes, but tight at the heart of society?

194730 ▶▶ StevieH, replying to RickH, 5, #511 of 1839 🔗

No doubt lots of flowers and teddies, and maybe that twat with the piano singing that deal Beatle’s dirge.

194758 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to RickH, 3, #512 of 1839 🔗

Well said! Is this BLM #2 or something?

Meanwhile, I find it strange that while Toby Young dismisses the increasingly overt globalist plan behind the inexorable growth in tyrannical measures and destruction in just about every country as a ‘conspiracy theory’ he is unwittingly or otherwise playing his part in stoking up Klaus Schwab’s aspirations:

‘He notes that in the early 2000s “the political and societal backlash against globalization relentlessly gained strength”, (57) says that “social unrest” has been widespread across the world in the past two years, citing the Gilets Jaunes in France among other movements, and invokes the “sombre scenario” that “the same could happen again”. From Klaus Schwab, Thierry Malleret, Covid-19: The Great Reset

Divide and rule – bring it on! MW

194843 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to RickH, 3, #513 of 1839 🔗

Macron would have been condemning an anti lockdown protest of the same size and sending in the riot police using batons and tear gas. Usual establishment double standards – could it be because one protest strengthens the power of the State whilst the other takes it away? This murder will obviously be used as an opportunity to introduce tougher laws against the enemies of the French state – and the definition of enemy will left vague and open to minister interpretation (people who refuse Covid vaccine?).

There were also tens of thousands on the streets on Saturday in Paris to protest for immigrant worker rights – obviously another globalist backed protest as this went completely un harassed by the police. Most will be unemployed and on benefits soon so they might as well have joined the anti lockdown protests.

194736 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 41, #514 of 1839 🔗

My latest (and last) communication with my MP:

Dear Mrs Badenoch

I shall make this a short reply, as I have neither the energy nor the desire to engage any further with you.

I very much doubt you “regret” anything, otherwise the misery/despair/horror that you people are inflicting, would move you into getting this country back on its feet.

I suggest you have a look at this website: lockdownsceptics.org to see with what disdain your trade is now held in.

I do not want a reply to this.

I remain, disgusted.

194750 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to kh1485, 2, #515 of 1839 🔗

Now held in?

194753 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to captainbeefheart, 2, #516 of 1839 🔗

Fair point. I typed it at speed and in anger.

194738 Londo Mollari, replying to Londo Mollari, 6, #517 of 1839 🔗

It is looking very much like a harsh lockdown is expected in Wales, with people expected to stay at home. Back to March.

194833 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Londo Mollari, 7, #518 of 1839 🔗

Good luck with that, Drakeford. This Welshman aint staying at home.

194840 ▶▶ l835, replying to Londo Mollari, #519 of 1839 🔗

Back to the Middle Ages if drakeford gets his way.

194740 Hoppy Uniatz, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 12, #520 of 1839 🔗

My response to Wikipedia’s annual fund-raising email.

“Dear Wikipedia, Thanks for your email and normally I’d be happy to contribute, but I’m a bit uneasy about how the Great Barrington Declaration appears. The entry appears hostile and partisan. Once this gets sorted out I’ll send my usual donation. Meanwhile thanks for all your hard work, much appreciated.”

194815 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, #521 of 1839 🔗

They are the same with stuff like 911. Blatantly an inside job. 3 steel framed skyscrapers.. straight down collapses. Two hit by planes.

194891 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to chaos, -1, #522 of 1839 🔗

My initial reaction to 911 on the morning was. I could not believe “they” would do that. I wasn’t thinking abut “The Terrorists” from “the middle East” either.

194967 ▶▶▶ TT, replying to chaos, -1, #523 of 1839 🔗

Re. 9/11, no mention either of Dubya Jr.’s brother Marvin being in charge of the company providing electronic security for the World Trade Center, Dulles International Airport and United Airlines (the company was backed by an investment firm, the Kuwait-American Corp., also linked for years to the Bush family).
Nor of Mr Larry Silverstein, who pocketed one of the most lucrative insurance payouts in known history thanks to the attacks (Silverstein changed the standard insurance policy on the buildings to include a clause covering the occurrence of a terrorist attack less than 2 months before September 11th, 2001 – Silverstein negotiated with 24 insurance companies for a maximum coverage of $3.55 billion per catastrophic occurrence. Silverstein ate at the Windows of the World restaurant on the top floors of the North Tower every morning except on September 11th… Silverstein says he had a doctor’s appointment instead. After 9/11, Silverstein put in a claim that there had been two separate attacks and he was therefore entitled to double the $3.55 billion coverage provided by the policy. After a long legal battle lasting several years, Silverstein finally won $4.55 billion
from the insurers).
The ‘pandemic’ is proving just as lucrative a racket almost 20 years on …

194831 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 5, #524 of 1839 🔗

i did that a week ago. . i actually got a reply which was basically “not out fault”
and which then said
“The Wikimedia Foundation is a nonprofit organization whose mission is to enable people around the world to collect and develop educational content under a free license or in the public domain, and to disseminate it effectively and globally. The Foundation does not endorse political candidates, or have an agenda other than our mission. The idea of a neutral point of view is one of our core principles.
Wikipedia is a global project managed by tens of thousands of volunteers from around the world. Many people do not know this, but the Wikimedia Foundation does not control or edit the content of Wikipedia. We are here primarily to provide infrastructure and support the volunteer community. They are people from virtually all walks of life, who edit and contribute everyday, and they reflect a vast number of viewpoints. There is no central editorial board; all edits are made by individual members of the Wikipedia community.
The volunteer editors appreciate hearing viewpoints about content, and value input from readers that can help improve the quality of information. If you have specific corrections or facts to offer, volunteers require citations or facts from reliable, high-quality sources to review and improve the information.
Wikipedia volunteers are strongly focused on the editorial values of non-censorship, neutrality, verifiability, and what is termed ‘no original research.’ All volunteers invested in the quality of Wikipedia are working collectively to build balanced, neutral articles that reflect a variety of perspectives on often complex, high-profile topics. Content and information can change quickly to reflect world events and new facts.”

Just looked at the entry again, It is still a hatchet job .. to the point that it has to mention that the sponsors have investments in fossil fuel companies – so spoor of the devil .

195667 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to mjr, #525 of 1839 🔗

A few years back they had a purge on low carbers, including removing Malcolm Kendrick and nearly doing the same to Tom Naughton. It is obviously edited by people with an agenda (you should read some of the dialogue) and is not only anti-low carb but pro-vegan. Knowledgeable people who tried to edit some of their pages had their edits removed and were banned from further editing.

Unbelievably I heard of someone who corrected a minor error on the page about a vintage bus. His edit was immediately removed and the wrong information replaced.

The problem is that their editors take ownershipof “their” pages and disallow anyone else’s point of view.

194845 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 4, #526 of 1839 🔗

Once this gets sorted out I’ll send my usual donation

I do not understand why anyone would ever make a contribution to Wikipedia. They have been censoring information on a massive scale. They have an army of ‘editors’ that makes changes to information that do not fit their agenda or that of their corporate sponsors.

Wikipedia is never a reliable source of information – not allowed to use them as a reference for school. university and other assignments or books, etc. It is an ok place to get some basic information and then to widen your search for the ‘real’ information.

If you have spare money please make donations to the Free Speech Union .

194741 Basics, replying to Basics, 22, #527 of 1839 🔗

Had the unfortunate pleasure of watching our taxes being spent in anger a few short days ago.

Passing along a tourist free tourist street I encounter a scene from Farenheit 451 and the brown shirts all rolled up into one with a special 2020 bow on top.

A grubby woman dressed all in black, not uniform personal choice, was standing in a waitress-blocked doorway to a café. The unmasked lady with a mat of tangled hair in black was looking down at the pavement and her shoes as she spoke on her moblie phone. The waitress stood in attendence arms folded and masked.

“You are to close immediately”, said Julie into her phone – she being the almighty council environmental officer dressed all in black by her own choice. Julie went on to explain a ‘licensed café’ cannot possibly be allowed to remain open and there was a clear risk to those inside who were sitting quietly obeying diktats and rules with the careful assistance of the waiteress.

The waitress had already told Julie that the café had carefully altered their premises to accomodate all manners of goop and distances, they were not serving alcohol and had used the Scottish Government book of oppressions exactly to arrange the new basis on which to operate.

Julie the Black had her prey, she was just now going through with the kill. Julie spoke into her phone, “I need your email address so that I can send you the paperwork, you are now to close immediately”. Julie then recounted the email address, a hotmail one, to the street. Grubby Julie broke GDPR guidelines at that moment.

That was it. Julie was gone and livelihoods too. The café to close.

Other shop keepers came out to see. I briefed them, they are a kind well used to council show-ups for arbitrary enforcements and pit of stomach harrassments. These people work despite the council hinderance. They need to band together, but with so many, many confusions finding a commonly held understanding and consequent objective has been near impossible, to this point.

194784 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Basics, 4, #528 of 1839 🔗

She could have refused to close – like gym in Liverpool.

195207 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Londo Mollari, 1, #529 of 1839 🔗

We’d have backed her.

194931 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, 2, #530 of 1839 🔗

This was always going to bring out peoples inner Hitler.

194754 PhilipF, replying to PhilipF, 28, #531 of 1839 🔗

I went off Jeremy Clarkson a bit yesterday. He wrote:

“A public information ad that nobody much paid attention to when it first appeared last year started doing the rounds last week. It suggested that girls who can no longer be ballet dancers should think about retraining for a career in cyber-technology. This made a lot of young people very angry, and I’m not sure why.
Covid-19 forced theatres to close. So it’s pointless sitting at home, banging your fists on the floor, saying, “I want to be a ballet dancer”. It’d be like mewling and puking with rage because you can’t be a town crier or a switchboard operator.

I think Clarkson’s lack of empathy shows him as a bit of a psychopath. Not being able to earn your living as a ballet dancer is nothing like not being “being a town crier”. It is not a redundant profession, rather an innocent activity that has been suddenly outlawed. I have no interest in ballet, but I have enough empathy to see that it something that is loved by many, spectators and performers. If he can’t see how devastating it must be to dream of being a dancer, to practise it for years and then be denied the chance to express yourself and earn your living from it overnight, by arbitrary government edict, then he is a cruel person.

Suddenly losing your respect for somebody is one of the many consequences of this never-ending disaster.

194765 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to PhilipF, 9, #532 of 1839 🔗

Agree. I spent much of yesterday at the Daily Telegraph trying to argue that the arts (dance, music, drama) actually matter in society – and that the extraordinary skill should be respected and the years of training honoured. Almost no support – apparently being a delivery driver is more important.

194798 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Rosie, 16, #533 of 1839 🔗

I don’t think this should even be a relevant if the arts actually matter in society or not – the government should not have the power to shut down peoples business and people should be free to pursue their interests regardless of any individuals opinion on how important it is to society.

The prosperity we knew was a result of our liberty. Take away the liberty and the prosperity will disappear also. The only way to protect our prosperity which includes the arts is to protect our liberty.

194826 ▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Saved To Death, 9, #534 of 1839 🔗

Do we even have a ‘society’ if interaction with one another is curtailed so extremely and collective activities and interests are destroyed? We just become human bodies who happen to live on the same land mass and pay taxes into the same pot (if we are allowed to make a living).

194883 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Charlie Blue, #535 of 1839 🔗

I just completely agree with this D o we even have a ‘society’ if interaction with one another is curtailed so extremely and collective activities and interests are destroyed? We just become human bodies who happen to live on the same land mass . I wrote about 2/3 of a book on this very subject – in form of conversations and part-biographies of various (non-famous) individuals. Got about 2/3 of the way through and abandoned it about a year ago.

194800 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Rosie, 5, #536 of 1839 🔗

Delivery drivers can’t be said to bring beauty into the world, in my limited experience.

194810 ▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Rosie, 13, #537 of 1839 🔗

I don’t understand this strange point of view, and I’m pretty sure that almost everyone who disagreed with you on the Telegraph enjoys the arts in one form or another. What a dull world it would be without them. I’m sure delivery drivers would get very bored driving around with no music to listen to on the radio…

I suppose we could survive with food parcels being delivered to us by men in vans, travel nowhere, sit in silence, play no music or sport and just listen to talk shows on the radio about coronavirus all day… but I wouldn’t call that living. Arts/culture/sport/travel, for me all of these things make life worth living.

194879 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 1, #538 of 1839 🔗

If Sweden can hold out and play their cards right they could become the arts capital of Europe. It’d do wonders for their economic recovery.

194824 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Rosie, 15, #539 of 1839 🔗

I know a sceptic who is having a very hard time working in the industry as all their colleagues are full on Covid zealots and support compulsory masks outdoors.

The Arts have done little to help themselves they have pretty universally been in full support of so called ‘peaceful’ protests by BLM but have been completely silent on police brutality against lockdown protestors and usually strongly condemn us. Most if not all in the public eye fully support tough Melbourne style police state measures in exchange for handouts. I fully recognise the value of the industry and the skills involved but they are part of their own demise.

If they are happy (or outright supportive) for me to be beaten and sent to a state internment camp I am less than sympathetic to them being sent to the unemployment office. Really had enough of their self righteous snobbery in the media – especially the Guardian.

194844 ▶▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Darryl, 5, #540 of 1839 🔗

When people finally work out what has happened to them, that building not far from Kings Cross station will be burned down to the ground, hopefully together with the smug, self-satisfied pillocks who write their articles for them.

194858 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Darryl, 5, #541 of 1839 🔗

I know a rock music promoter who is infull denial, thinks if we all do as we are told his industry might survive. A few months ago he was convinced the vaccine was around the corner, last week he was all about how Track’n’Trace was going to save us all.

194889 ▶▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to karenovirus, 5, #542 of 1839 🔗

They told us it was a ‘new normal’ back in March and this involves social isolation, distancing and technological control. The message was clear.

The rock music promoter will probably still blindly believe the government on his death bed – Dr Bill Gates has said we won’t be going back to old normal even with the vaccine so the rock concerts of old are gone – unless people like him finally wake up.

194910 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Darryl, 2, #543 of 1839 🔗

He was aghast when I suggested one way forward was to get the kids back in the mosh pits but hey, he’s been in talks ‘with people at government level’.

194895 ▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Darryl, 3, #544 of 1839 🔗

The Arts have done little to help themselves ….
This was the basic argument I was contending with yesterday. Now I agree that most high-profile people a Woken fools, and am the first to say that people who have studied Shakespeare, drama and literature should be aware of this …..
but –
(a) idiotic opinions do not undo the undoubted skill they (most of them) possess;
(b) the vast majority of practitioners and participators do not hold those views
(c) beauty and the arts are bigger than the current set of Woken fools, and have their roots deep deep in our culture
(d) What is the purpose of life without beauty?
(e) unless one generation teaches the next the skills can be lost within a few years. A musician’s body cannot do manual labour and also play an instrument. The closing of universities seems to me to have one main objective – to prevent generations of students (a mere three year-turnover) passing on hobbies, interests, skills and societies.

194909 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Darryl, 8, #545 of 1839 🔗

Agree with you on this. I work in museums & heritage and like the arts they have done precious little to help themselves. They jump on the BLM bandwagon but are curiously silent on the assault on our civil liberties and right to earn a livelihood. If anything they seem to want more draconian measures and demand for more money from the state rather than to campaign to end lockdown, social distancing and masks so that they can recoup their lost revenue and keep their museums open.

I have reached the point now where I view them as collaborators and complicit in this ongoing horror show and will not be sorry when they go on the dole and their museums, galleries and stately homes go bust.

They will reap what they sow.

194927 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #546 of 1839 🔗

I have reached the point now where I view them as collaborators and complicit in this ongoing horror show
I agree with you on this

and will not be sorry when they go on the dole and their museums, galleries and stately homes go bust.
They will reap what they sow.
But disagree strongly on this. They might lose their job, but it is we who lose access to their expertise and into the bargain goes our culture, history and inheritance, we who lose our society and our reasons to be alive.

195036 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Rosie, 2, #547 of 1839 🔗

They might lose their job, but it is we who lose access to their expertise and into the bargain goes our culture, history and inheritance, we who lose our society and our reasons to be alive.

Agree that this will be one of the casualties of this insanity however the museums & heritage sector aren’t helping one jot with their cowardice. It seems to me that they don’t care that we the people lose our culture, history and inheritance.

If they seriously cared they would have been coming together to campaign to end this nonsense and even disobey the regulations. If they’re fined, refuse to pay and keep the courts clogged with this insanity for 10,000 years.

195027 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #548 of 1839 🔗

Ironic really.

They protest the injustices of centuries gone by whilst vehemently advocating for the modern day slavery of the muzzle and the lockdown.

What’s the difference between a mask and a slave collar?

195179 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Mabel Cow, 1, #549 of 1839 🔗

Agree. And the sad thing is I don’t think they can spot the difference even if it smacked them in the face.

195205 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mabel Cow, 1, #550 of 1839 🔗

Zombies can be deluded into wearing masks voluntarily.
I doubt if that was possible with slave collars.
Only difference.

195744 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Rosie, #551 of 1839 🔗

Sounds like the Taliban

194790 ▶▶ Julian, replying to PhilipF, 13, #552 of 1839 🔗

I kind of get Clarkson, sometimes, but here he is just being an arse. If it’s raining, there’s no point getting upset about it. Rain is inevitable. Accept it. But the destruction of the arts, for no better reason than to save the PM’s political career, is neither inevitable not can it ever be accepted.

194806 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 1, #553 of 1839 🔗

he is just being an arse”

That’s all he’s good at, surely.

194903 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Julian, 2, #554 of 1839 🔗

I kind of get Clarkson, sometimes, but here he is just being an arse.

lol, well of course he is. It’s his trademark.

194851 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to PhilipF, -1, #555 of 1839 🔗

Clarkson was always a self opinionated, narcissistic, psychopathic prat of the highest order. Have you just realised it?

194898 ▶▶ John P, replying to PhilipF, 1, #556 of 1839 🔗

lol, I wouldn’t take much notice. He’s the king of “troll”. Have you never seen him on Top Gear/ the Grand Tour? He even trolls his fellow presenters, yet they all stick together.

Most of the time he is just larking about and winding people up.

194973 ▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to John P, -1, #557 of 1839 🔗

Most of the time he is just larking about and winding people up.

You forget why Clarkson was fired from ‘Top Gear’. He was given his marching orders after he reportedly spent 20 minutes berating a producer, one OisinTymon, before physically assaulting him during a fracas over the lack of hot food after filming.

For that instance of ‘larking about’ he, and the BBC, had to pay Tymon in excess of £100,000. But that’s a cheap price to pay for a laugh isn’t it?

194760 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #558 of 1839 🔗

It is right to acknowledge doom-mongers can get it right.

Prof Graham Medley an expert on SAGE, on the Today programme on the 26th September projected:-

“the UK would see 100 deaths a day in three to four weeks based on the number of cases the country is seeing now (there were 6,874 new cases on Friday) a figure he said is doubling every 10 days.

My quote come from an online Guardian article. The Friday referred to was the 25th Sept.

On the “doubling every 10 days” – this didn’t quite happen.

But the mortality prediction was reached within three weeks – well almost. The 7 day average on the 12th Oct. was 99.1 (see:- https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/deaths )

What I find puzzling is Prof . Medley said he thought the IFR was 1% but could be as be as low as 0.8% .

Well 6,874 x 1% = 69 (approx)

So how did arrive at the “100 deaths a day” prediction? He seemed to suggest it was unstoppable given the number of cases on the 25th, September not withstanding the restrictions introduced that day.

194793 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Ned of the Hills, 3, #559 of 1839 🔗

My quote come from an online Guardian article.”

‘Nuff said.

194804 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to RickH, 1, #560 of 1839 🔗

Mortality at 99.1????? No – the moving average was around 60. (CEBM)

194904 ▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to RickH, #561 of 1839 🔗

It’s more than 60. England alone is above 60 if date of death is used.

194795 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Ned of the Hills, 4, #562 of 1839 🔗

Even at that number 100 per day would only equal a bad flu year. But still nothing like HK flu in 1968.

194848 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to chaos, 3, #563 of 1839 🔗

Exactly. All he would have had to do would be look at the normal range of deaths and pick a number. Because 2020 is nothing special.

194877 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to chaos, 1, #564 of 1839 🔗

The problem is the trend. It would be useful if people could get this.

194892 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Mayo, #565 of 1839 🔗

But the figures are based on faulty data, so any “trend” is meaningless.

194901 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to John P, #566 of 1839 🔗

What is faulty about the data?

194914 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Mayo, #567 of 1839 🔗

Well, first of all you need to be clear about what data you are referring to.

Hospital admissions? Much has been already said about how that is currently being manipulated.

PCR test results? The PCR test was never designed for the purpose for which it is now being used and does not detect live, viable virus. At best it detects viral genetic fragments.

195048 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to John P, 1, #568 of 1839 🔗

Well, first of all you need to be clear about what data you are referring to.

Deaths.

195122 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Mayo, #569 of 1839 🔗

Regarding mortality, the only reliable figures as a basis for comparison are those for overall all causes mortality:

Latest ONS analysis:

In August 2020, there were 34,750 deaths registered in England, 2,060 deaths fewer than the five-year average (2015 to 2019) for August; in Wales, there were 2,379 deaths registered, 116 deaths fewer the five-year average for August.

The leading cause of death in August 2020 was dementia and Alzheimer’s disease in England (accounting for 10.9% of all deaths) and ischaemic heart disease in Wales (11.0% of all deaths); both leading causes of death were the same in July 2020.

The coronavirus (COVID-19) did not feature in the top ten leading causes of death in August 2020, in England or Wales. In England, COVID-19 was the 24th most common cause of death’

These figures quite clearly show that the ‘pandemic’ is a panic; silly confection

September’s ONS analysis available shortly

194935 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mayo, #570 of 1839 🔗

How do you define a death from/of/with covid? Does that definition match the stats you’re using?

195057 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Julian, #571 of 1839 🔗

It doesn’t matter too much – providing the data is used consistently.

Let’s suppose 50% of deaths attributed to Covid are not actually due to Covid at all. If the reporting and recording is consistent then it won’t affect the trend.

It will affect the actual numbers but if deaths are doubling every, say, 2 weeks, it just means the current number will be reached in 2 weeks time.

195156 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Mayo, #572 of 1839 🔗

The only thing consistent about the data is its lack of consistency:

‘Analysis of COVID-19 deaths in this bulletin, includes only those deaths with an underlying cause of death of COVID-19, referred to as “due to COVID-19”. This is different from deaths “involving COVID-19” used in other publications, which includes deaths that had COVID-19 mentioned anywhere on the death certificate, whether as underlying cause or not.’

ONS

‘Coronavirus (COVID-19) deaths are those deaths registered in England and Wales in the stated week where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate. A doctor can certify the involvement of COVID-19 based on symptoms and clinical findings – a positive test result is not required.

ONS

‘Our definition of COVID-19 includes some cases where the certifying doctor suspected the death involved COVID-19 but was not certain, for example, because no test was done. Of the 46,736 deaths with an underlying cause of COVID-19, 3,763 (8.1%) were classified as “suspected” COVID-19. Including mentions, “suspected” COVID-19 was recorded on 8.4% (4,251 deaths) of all deaths involving COVID-19.’

ONS

Everyone clear?

195197 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Tim Bidie, #573 of 1839 🔗

As mud.

195236 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mayo, 1, #574 of 1839 🔗

Let’s suppose 98% of deaths attributed to covid are not actually due to covid. Does that change anything?

If you’re happy to have your country wrecked on the basis of stats that appear to have little basis in reality, that’s fine. I need better evidence. Not enough people are dying to justify this, end of.

194809 ▶▶ djaustin, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #575 of 1839 🔗

Hospital admissions are doubling every 10 days. Deaths follow admissions with a lag of a week. Predict deaths based on admissions rather than cases. Much less confounded by testing practices.

194828 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to djaustin, 3, #576 of 1839 🔗

How do you define “hospital admission” and where does your data come from?

195328 ▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Julian, #577 of 1839 🔗

The NHS report daily report who have tested positive at admission (positive in past 14 days) and those who have tested positive within 24 hours of admission. There is also a category for those who are suspected of COVID19 – (shortness of breath, temperature, cough) but not yet confirmed. These numbers are collected daily and consistently. Any changes signal a trend.

195469 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to djaustin, #578 of 1839 🔗

OK, so if as I believe is the case they test everyone admitted regardless of what for then the “covid admissions” simply reflect the total numbers of people being admitted to hospital for whatever reason, combined with the % of false positives and the general prevalence of the virus in the population. So a trend doesn’t necessarily reflect an increase in people ill with covid who need hospital treatment.

195880 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Julian, #579 of 1839 🔗

Why would there be a trend in false positives? As soon as schools opened in early September, hospital admissions took a 90 degree turn on a log scale and started climbing. They continue to do so six weeks later.

195520 ▶▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Julian, #580 of 1839 🔗
195760 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Ned of the Hills, #581 of 1839 🔗

My issue with the hospitalisation figure being quoted in the headlines is that they are testing EVERYONE – not just people with covid symptoms.

196049 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Julian, #582 of 1839 🔗

ITU admissions are tracking at a constant fraction of those COVID19 positive hospitalizations. Conincidence? Influenza admissions are not, and patients are also tested for influenza by PCR.

194852 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to djaustin, 1, #583 of 1839 🔗

You need context for the numbers. Look at years past. Are we seeing anything of note?

Remember, flu has been eradicated this year. Everywhere. Inclusing the UK

194945 ▶▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #584 of 1839 🔗

I’m afraid even when enlarged the graphs are too small for me to read. Accepting that flu is no longer present? How does one account for that? Heaven forfend it has not been brought about by all the mask wearing ! ?

195024 ▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #585 of 1839 🔗

It basically says there has been no flu reported by the ONS. Same in Ireland, no flu.

https://www.hpsc.ie/news/title-20415-en.html?fbclid=IwAR3bMA_0sb346x6kHpkUzq-JjinO8z4L9PRJlaHIWpFw_vrWo0DgPQxwWyA

Same in Australia, no flu.

97% collapse globally

194782 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 18, #586 of 1839 🔗

On BBC Breakfast this morning, the leader of one of the Greater Manchester councils, Sean Fielding of Oldham, stated that there are sixty-five people in Greater Manchester’s hospitals with coronavirus. At this point the BBC apparently lost interest.

194792 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Steve Hayes, 11, #587 of 1839 🔗

What is amazing is that this epidemiological house of cards, seven months on, is still built on such shaky foundations as the undefined terms ‘with Covid’ or ‘cases’.

When I stand back, it is astounding that we still have no reliable measure of illness actually caused by this much talked-about virus.

194805 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to RickH, 15, #588 of 1839 🔗

The Science of the Coronavirus is pseudoscience: all of it. The lockdowns, the two metre social distancing, the Rule of Six, the one metre plus, the face coverings, the ten o’clock rule, the standing face covering required but sitting not required, etc. It is all just a made up Just So story, sold by fear-mongering, moralising, science-sounding propaganda.

194821 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Steve Hayes, 5, #589 of 1839 🔗

Of course.

But it works! That’s the point, and what needs unpicking.

The only crowded cafes are where brains have gone out to lunch. Otherwise, why would even the averagely intelligent person not have clocked the disjunction between all the barmy measures imposed by government and the simple fact that they’re still saying “Woooo … there’s a terrifying virus around!”

In a rational world, you would immediately clock that they have not got anything right – even in terms of their own narrative.

Instead, the public comes back to lap up more shit soup.

194847 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Steve Hayes, 4, #591 of 1839 🔗

Pure theatre to keep up the dEaDlY pAnDeMiC narrative. If it were true we wouldn’t need stupid diktats and slogans.

194849 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #592 of 1839 🔗

What exactly was the FACE bit of the latest mantra about ?

194876 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to karenovirus, 2, #593 of 1839 🔗

Hands (wash/use hand sanitiser) Face (wear face covering) Space (observe social distancing). They really like the power of three rhetorical device. For them it is more important than the actual content of the message.

195194 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #594 of 1839 🔗

Cunts. Buggers. Fuends.

Liars. Terrorists. Fascists.

Destroyers. Killers. Smashers.
*****
Hell, it’s addictive!

195394 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #595 of 1839 🔗

Oh, same old then.

Power of three =
Ein Volk
Ein Reich
Ein Furhrer

194796 karenovirus, 11, #596 of 1839 🔗

In the convenience store a small older man asked where was my mask?
I told him ‘exempt at which he replied
“Oh you would be, why aren’t you working today ?”
I realised that he was a junior back-office worker for my employer.
Naturally I wanted to call him a ‘cheeky little c*nt’ but to avoid unpleasantness for the shopkeeper contented myself with staring down at him until he shuffled away.

194808 Mabel Cow, replying to Mabel Cow, 19, #597 of 1839 🔗

Here’s a good article published on 2020-10-16 by the American Institute for Economic Research. The article has been written by a chemistry PhD with experience in PPE.

He explains why he thinks masks are not only ineffective but also a viral transmission intermediary. He points out that masks are quite a congenial environment for SARS-CoV-2 because the mask material doesn’t break down the virus molecules.

I’m starting to think the only route to getting the general public to stop wearing masks is to convince them that wearing a mask makes it more likely that they will become infected with SARS-CoV-2.

194813 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Mabel Cow, 6, #598 of 1839 🔗

We need a badge stating “Masks are bad for your health”.

195295 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #599 of 1839 🔗

Your wish is my command. A badge with that message is now available on Redbubble .

As with all my stuff on Redbubble I’ve reduced the margin to 0% to make the items as cheap as possible.

If you have a cheaper way to produce the badges, help yourself to the image and have at it. All my designs are free to use for any purpose.

194846 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mabel Cow, 4, #600 of 1839 🔗

It’s been said that a fit young person who is unlikely to feel ill effects of Covid if they catch it might actually become unwell because of being unable to exhale Covid gunk from behind a mask.

194902 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to Mabel Cow, #601 of 1839 🔗

I do know of a few who have had the rona, or rona-like symptoms. All compliant people.

194811 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 13, #602 of 1839 🔗

There has been an awful lot of chatter about vaccination ID. Now work this out

C. O. V. I. D. = Certificate of Vaccination ID

Now do you see what I see?

194839 ▶▶ Mike, replying to Bella Donna, 6, #603 of 1839 🔗

To many want to keep the blinkers on and pretend its simply incompetence leading us to disaster…’It couldn’t possibly have been planned’…theyre in for a shock.

194890 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Mike, 1, #604 of 1839 🔗

There are elements of planning in this. There are also elements of incompetence and stupidity.

194842 ▶▶ William Hand, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #605 of 1839 🔗

Of course it has been planned. Bleedin obvious innit!

194860 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to William Hand, 1, #606 of 1839 🔗

Defo damo, planned for years and the suckers are falling for it

194865 ▶▶ 2 pence, replying to Bella Donna, -1, #607 of 1839 🔗

You forgot 19 !
Alphabetically:
1 = A rtificial.
9 = I ntelligence.

194875 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #608 of 1839 🔗

Obviously I see the plot to impose Chinese level control and digital ID but Coronaviridae is new latin, the word is well over 100 years old, corona meaning crown or circle and vidae meaning virus. Co-vid. Though glancing at the dozens of different corona viruses it might be interesting to note that cov-sars 2 (covid-19) is the only one I can see also referred to as covid. The elites like their funny numbers and games..

194829 ▶▶ RickH, replying to chaos, 4, #610 of 1839 🔗

Sop The Times has just clocked the billions being chucked on a rubbish tip? Wow! That was quick! 🙂

I mean, whenever most of us hear names like ‘Serco’ etc., we reach to feel for our wallet.

194818 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 6, #611 of 1839 🔗

Not a lot of excess death going on:

Source: https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps

194823 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Sarigan, 2, #612 of 1839 🔗

Yep. A statement of the bleedin’ obvious, isn’t it? Even taking into account the Euromomo methodology.

194957 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Sarigan, #613 of 1839 🔗

Is that for week 40 only, or year to date?

194827 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 3, #614 of 1839 🔗

Great Manchester MP admitted to hospital ‘with covid’:

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-greater-manchester-mp-yasmin-qureshi-hospitalised-with-covid-19-12108304

In a statement, she said: “Two weeks ago, I began to feel unwell. I then tested positive for COVID-19, so my family and I immediately self-isolated at home. I have not travelled to Westminster or anywhere else.

“I continued to work as best I could remotely, attending virtual meetings and doing casework, but after 10 days, I began to feel much worse and on Saturday I was admitted to the Royal Bolton Hospital with pneumonia.

194835 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Sarigan, 2, #615 of 1839 🔗

I wish her well. Obviously well on the road to recovery if she has been able to make a statement only two days after being admitted to hospital.

194838 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Sarigan, 3, #616 of 1839 🔗

You can’t test positive for Covid 19. What hope do we have when they have no clue.

194856 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Sarigan, 3, #617 of 1839 🔗

So pneumonia not covid, what bollocks.

The mind control is really ramping up.

Pish, why don’t they all fuck off and leave us alone.

194870 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to stefarm, 3, #618 of 1839 🔗

Covid can lead to pneumonia. In fact that’s what tends to happen in the more severe cases.

194874 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Mayo, 4, #619 of 1839 🔗

So can a cold which is also a coronavirus.

194881 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to mhcp, #620 of 1839 🔗

About 15% of colds are caused by coronaviruses, but most are caused by rhinoviruses.

194886 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to mhcp, 1, #621 of 1839 🔗

Or a flu.

194893 ▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Mayo, 2, #622 of 1839 🔗

Many things can cause pneumonia – maybe this is your own web page?

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/pneumonia/symptoms-causes/syc-20354204

195035 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to leggy, 1, #623 of 1839 🔗

Yes I know. It’s quite possible that it’s not Covid-related in the MP’s case but symptoms and a positive test would suggest it probably is.

No – not my clinic. Mayo is an old nickname which came about because a girlfriend’s (later wife) family came from Co. Mayo in Ireland.

194920 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mayo, #624 of 1839 🔗

Of course. With the emphasis on ‘can’.

As others have pointed out – many viral infections can lead to the bacterial infection of the lungs : pneumonia.

The problem lies in the slackness inherent in identifying the prime cause and, in particular, assuming a PCR+ test pins it down. To quote Kary Mullis :

“Somebody who’s got a particular virus generally is going to have anything that you can test for. To test for a specific virus, and suggest that the result has any special meaning is a problem in terms of interpretation”

195041 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to RickH, #625 of 1839 🔗

I get all this but the MP had symptoms – as well as a positive test. That narrows things down a bit.

195305 ▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to RickH, #626 of 1839 🔗

Pneumonia does not have to be bacterial.It’s an inflammatory response in the deep lung sacks caused by infection. Infection may be by virus, bacteria, fungus (REALLY nasty) and occasionally parasites.A diagnosis of pneumonia and a positive SARS-COV2 test, especially from the lower respiratory tract, would be concerning and is the definition of COVID19 – the disease. I hope she makes a good recovery.

195052 ▶▶▶▶ DeepBlueYonder, replying to Mayo, 1, #627 of 1839 🔗

ONS: “A death can be registered with both COVID-19 and Influenza and Pneumonia mentioned on the death certificate. Because pneumonia may [my emphasis] be a consequence of COVID-19, deaths where both were mentioned have been counted only in the COVID-19 category ” [my emphasis].

[I wonder how and by whom that judgment was made? It is surely solely a matter of the ordering of factors on the death certificate?]

This might help to explain partly why in England and Wales, deaths in weeks 1 to 40, 2020 inclusive where “influenza and pneumonia” are “mentioned” were 60,327. This is 16,756 lower than the five-year average of 77,083.

194878 ▶▶ John P, replying to Sarigan, 2, #628 of 1839 🔗

Pneumonia is a complication of SARS-CoV-2 virus infection that sometimes leads to death.

It’s also a complication of influenza virus infection which also sometimes leads to death.

It is important to distinguish between the virus (SARS-CoV-2) and the disease it causes (Covid-19).

So her pneumonia is not necessarily caused by the SARS-CoV-2 virus, but she will clearly say that it is since she had a positive PCR test.

Pneumonia is a disease not a virus.

194911 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to John P, 1, #629 of 1839 🔗

Pneumonia is also a complication of wearing a mask.

194919 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Rosie, 3, #630 of 1839 🔗

Perhaps it is. I’ve never worn one.

195185 ▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to John P, #631 of 1839 🔗

Would it not be correct to say that pneumonia is one of those Graeco Latin coinages which merely describes the symptoms, in this case “lungs containing some fluid”, just as “blepharitis” describes the symptom of “itchy eyelids”? In neither case does it tell you anything about the cause of the symptoms, nor is it necessarily much help in determining how best to treat it.

194913 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Sarigan, 3, #632 of 1839 🔗

Wearing a mask too long without changing it?
Not washing her hands both before and after touching her mask?
Putting her mask down on contaminated surfaces?

The deputy chief medical officer warned you about the dangers as long ago as March.

194830 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 13, #633 of 1839 🔗
195081 ▶▶ helen, replying to Victoria, 1, #634 of 1839 🔗

Brilliant interview… must listen

194859 helen, 1, #635 of 1839 🔗

Unmasked corruption?..

Minister of Health Herr Span

In a warehouse in Hessen millions of masks from China in limbo waiting to be payed for……..

In March 2020, the Federal Ministry of Health (Germany) decided to procure protective equipment itself: with more than 700 contracts for a total of around 6.4 billion euros . Now suppliers sit on the ordered goods and wait for their money.

194862 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #636 of 1839 🔗

Back in 2009 in The Assault on Liberty Dominic Raab wrote:

Draconian measures will always undermine liberty. But there is scant evidence they have made us safer.

I have not taken him out of context or cherry picked. The same sentiment is expressed over and over throughout the book. Whatever happened to Dominic Raab?

194866 ▶▶ John P, replying to Steve Hayes, #637 of 1839 🔗

I think he became Foreign Secretary.

194868 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #638 of 1839 🔗

They all talk a good fight. One junior minister has resigned his post, and a few backbenchers are now consistently voting against the government. That’s it.

194872 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #639 of 1839 🔗

Hospital discharge rates would be appropriate to look at. How many of the admissions are getting out? How fast is the turnaround?

194915 ▶▶ Jonny S., replying to Basics, #640 of 1839 🔗

The Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine are a good source for this type of information.

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/covid-19-uk-hospital-admissions/

194897 chaos, 3, #641 of 1839 🔗

Evil Davos Rockerfeller Cummings Misfits Thoughts #1

If I was the government I would make the flu jab a placebo this year and then blame most of the extra flu deaths on covid.

194899 James Marker, replying to James Marker, 8, #642 of 1839 🔗

There has been a lot of talk here about Klaus Schwab and the World Economic Forum’s Great Reset programme.  To what extent there exists an organized conspiracy is debatable, but it is in the interest of the WEF to promote lockdown – economic collapse will help them usher in the New World Order.  It’s my bet that many of the leading members of SAGE and the public-sector elite generally are sympathetic to the idea of a world government, though I doubt they’re taking direct orders from Schwab. To that list, you can add people like Starmer, Blair, Justin Welby, and, yes, indeed, many left-leaning Tories, including the bogeyman himself, Matt Hancock.  As for Schwab, you only need watch and listen to this man for a minute to realise he’s a nutcase. Why do so many of the “great and the good” and the “movers and shakers” support the aims of the WEF? I suspect it’s a mixture of self-interest and idealism. Of course, any world government is unlikely to be headed up by the wise but rather people like some of those mentioned – which is to say, candidates for the lunatic asylum.

194952 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to James Marker, 2, #643 of 1839 🔗

I highly recommend this latest podcast by James Corbett which explores the Great Reset in some detail:

https://www.corbettreport.com/greatreset/

194900 Mabel Cow, replying to Mabel Cow, #644 of 1839 🔗

I don’t know if this has been posted before, but unless you are keen to die in a fit of apoplexy, I suggest you don’t read it.

194951 ▶▶ Crazy Times, replying to Mabel Cow, 1, #645 of 1839 🔗

I’ve been having a bit of a look into this. What’s very strange is that if you search his name on Google, it’s basically just 12 pages of the same news stories all repeated. There doesn’t appear to really be anything other that about him. The last three results are relevant, but it looks like they are just machine generated from some social media aggregator platforms.

195060 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Crazy Times, #646 of 1839 🔗

Exactly. Thin on detail. These stories do reverbarate through AI echo chambers.

The 13 year old Muslim boy who made the news at the start of this was reported using the picture of an Irish boy who took his own life in 2017. Of course, it was never checked for validity and it went out around the world.

https://fullfact.org/online/pictures-dead-teenagers-false/

195137 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Crazy Times, #647 of 1839 🔗

cut and paste media propaganda. It’s all too tedious in their blatancy.
It’s the same as Orange Man Bad media stories. If it’s negative, it’s everywhere. If it’s positive, it’s buried.

194908 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #648 of 1839 🔗

From the Save Our Rights fb group

194932 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #649 of 1839 🔗

They don’t know and they don’t care. As clear a demonstration as you could wish for that the government DO NOT CONSIDER COVID EXCEPTIONALLY DANGEROUS because if they did and they actually wanted to do something about it this is for sure one of the most basic data items they’d be looking to gather. SAGE and the government appear to have NOTHING of practical use about the virus since it started.

195001 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Julian, 1, #650 of 1839 🔗

Actually. I hadn’t thought of it like that. Good point.

195323 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Julian, #651 of 1839 🔗

“Just days before U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson announced a nationwide lockdown to contain the coronavirus epidemic, health officials in Britain quietly lowered the official threat level for the pandemic, saying the COVID-19 virus did not meet the criteria to qualify as a “high consequence infectious disease” (HCID).”

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/mar/26/lockdown-britain-quietly-downgraded-status-virus-t/

195089 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Cheezilla, #652 of 1839 🔗

Rumbled!

195741 ▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Tim Bidie, #653 of 1839 🔗

Which merely meant that all sufferers didn’t have to be transferred to only two special hospitals in England, one in London and the other in Newcastle – think there’s a designated one for each of the devolved administrations too.

194917 NickR, replying to NickR, #654 of 1839 🔗

Spot a trend? In the absence of 3rd Tier lockdown restrictions doesn’t it look like these are plateauing or turning down.
Now I suppose it’s possible that there’s an age issue, that the rate of infection amongst students is dropping & infections amongst older people is increasing, but if that’s the case they should demonstrate it.

194929 ▶▶ RickH, replying to NickR, #655 of 1839 🔗

Spot the missing key data for a bonus point.

194933 ▶▶ NickR, replying to NickR, #656 of 1839 🔗

If anyone is interested in the data for any area let me know & I’ll post it.

195123 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to NickR, #657 of 1839 🔗

I’m struggling to see how the absolute number of positive tests in any given day is indicative of anything except the number of tests being administered.

194918 JHuntz, replying to JHuntz, 30, #658 of 1839 🔗

Jeremy Vine had me laughing this morning. Elderly woman on the phone talking about her COVID restrictions, to summarise:-

  • Wears two masks
  • Wears two sets of gloves
  • Doesn’t get on the bus if too busy
  • Gets off the bus if too many people are let on
  • Hasn’t seen her grandchildren for months (misses them)

To this the presenter and panel member unanimously called her a hero. So as of today hero’s are not Churchill / Alan Turing/ William Bader. No, hero’s are those that adopt maximum COVID zealotry and are too frightened to go see their grandchildren.

194948 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to JHuntz, 9, #659 of 1839 🔗

Calling her a hero will do her no good at all. As anyone who has had to learn how to relate to people with OCD will tell you, one thing you are absolutely not supposed to do is reassure or encourage them in their compulsions. *Sigh*.

194961 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to mattghg, 3, #660 of 1839 🔗

On Good Morning Britain, their pet doctor, stated that we all have to behave as if we have OCD.

194988 ▶▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to Steve Hayes, 7, #661 of 1839 🔗

I’m actually horrified to hear that. Can you find a link to a clip? Because I might actually complain. The whole message that communicates about mental illness is completely wrong. (Unless there’s a context which clarifies it, but I can’t see how there could be.)

195059 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to mattghg, #662 of 1839 🔗

I cannot find it. This strikes me as strange because I watched it at the time. Later I referred to it in a comment on an OffGuardian article. Another commentator asked for a reference and I had no difficulty in find it. Now it seems to have disappeared (using Google) from the Internet. This strikes me as strange because there was no apparent controversy at the time.

195519 ▶▶▶▶▶ earthkiss, replying to mattghg, #663 of 1839 🔗

Full clip for context. See 4:10. And observe Morgan quickly cut Hilary off as he spills the beans!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QT9l8-ixOQ

194996 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Steve Hayes, 4, #664 of 1839 🔗

Is that Sarah Jarvis? Another one who should be struck off for peddling propaganda and quack advice.

195061 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #665 of 1839 🔗

No. It was Hilary Jones.

195494 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ earthkiss, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #666 of 1839 🔗

There is a clip of Dr. Hilary Jones explaining unequivocally how masks are useless in protecting from a virus and are in fact on the contrary harmful to the wearer.

195021 ▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #667 of 1839 🔗

Obviously a wanker.

194949 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to JHuntz, 7, #668 of 1839 🔗

Dear god. What an awful way to ‘live’. As has been pointed out with respect to other people and their superstitious behaviour, why would you not just stay at home if you were so utterly terrified?

194971 ▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Charlie Blue, 8, #669 of 1839 🔗

See I think that is the most sinister part of all the restrictions. The govt makes the public believe that if we all follow the rules to the letter we can avoid the virus and keep cases low, whereas if cases rise well we’re not following the rules well enough. The rules aren’t ever challenged themselves it’s all our fault.

194980 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to JHuntz, 5, #670 of 1839 🔗

Should call her a nutcase

194994 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to JHuntz, 2, #671 of 1839 🔗

She must really be bonkers.

What has happened to many old people that they have been reduced to pathetic hypochondriacs?

195103 ▶▶▶ Suitejb, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #672 of 1839 🔗

Fortunately not all, many older volunteers are still out in the community carrying on as usual. I know two volunteer drivers who are busy taking elderly and vulnerable people to medical appointments. They are both over 80 and have both had treatment for cancer in the last few years. I’m not surprised as they’ve been doing this for years. And they wouldn’t see themselves as heroes.

195176 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Suitejb, 2, #673 of 1839 🔗

More power to their elbow. We need more people like that.

195129 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to JHuntz, 1, #674 of 1839 🔗

She’s not a hero. She’s a terrified idiot. Not her fault, as the public have had months being bombarded with this,but she shouldn’t be encouraged. Jeremy Vine should be ashamed, but he won’t be.

195220 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to JHuntz, 2, #675 of 1839 🔗

She a crazy old bitch that what she is..C’m on ,I’m just saying what everybody would be thinking 8 months ago in February. How quickly we forgot that people like that used to be on special shows on Channel 4 for everybody to laugh and point fingers at.

We are truly trough the looking glass now and have been for months.

194924 NickR, replying to NickR, #676 of 1839 🔗

If anyone’s interested in seeing test data for any area let me know & I’ll post it.

195015 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to NickR, 1, #677 of 1839 🔗

TS17 postcode if you could? Thanks.

195111 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to Tenchy, 1, #678 of 1839 🔗

Tenchy, here’s Stockton on Tees.

195174 ▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to NickR, #679 of 1839 🔗

Thanks Nick. So 100 positive tests per day at the moment, and the population is 200,000! I wonder how many tests there’d be for flu?

195206 ▶▶▶▶▶ NickR, replying to Tenchy, #680 of 1839 🔗

132 on the 15th! Is there still a chunk of Durham Uni in the middle of Stockton or did it close? Still, you’re a hot spot.
I’ve been to Stockton, didn’t look like the fittest population I’ve ever seen! Get out in the market place & start flogging Vit C, D & Zinc, you’ll make another fortune.

195289 ▶▶ matt, replying to NickR, #681 of 1839 🔗

Do you have a source for all this Nick? I’d like to see it broken down by London borough, but wouldn’t expect you to go through all of them. Would be curious to see Lewisham though – it’s a neighboring borough and I’ve heard several people describe it as a ‘hotspot’ (which I’m fairly sure it’s not, though it was in March/April)

195460 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to matt, #682 of 1839 🔗

Lewisham attached. The source is the government daily data. It’s released an about q 100,000 line csv file so we just bang it through a statistical package to make it penetrable.
I might do a load of London Boroughs later. It looks like inner London is following the pattern of the big northern cities & is peaking but outer boroughs still rising. I suspect the main concern is if it’s students declining but older people still rising.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk

194925 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 4, #683 of 1839 🔗

Here is one doomsayer’s prediction that hasn’t proved correct – well it wasn’t so much predicted as implied.

On the 12th of this month Prof. Jonathan Van-Tam pointed out to the nation that the number of people in hospital was then higher than it had been on the 23rd March when lockdown was introduced.

I think it was being implied we were on the same projectory. This has not happened.

23rd March:- 3,097 – a week later 9,498
11th October:- 3,451 – a week later 4,971

The peak number was on the 11th, April – 17,172.

Another prediction we will know the truth of next is by the Cambridge Medical Research Council “We predict that the number of deaths each day is likely to be between 240 and 690 on October 26.”

194944 ▶▶ Mayo, replying to Ned of the Hills, #684 of 1839 🔗

It’s possible REPORTED deaths might be above the lower end of the range but at the current rate deaths actually on Oct 26th (or 7 day average centred on that Oct 26th) would be between 150 and 200.

194947 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Mayo, #685 of 1839 🔗

Good point

194956 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Mayo, #686 of 1839 🔗

Why have you put the word “reported” in capitals? I don’t understand what you are saying here. Are you suggesting that deaths may be under-reported and if so, how?

194964 ▶▶▶▶ D B, replying to John P, 2, #687 of 1839 🔗

I think he’s suggesting they will build up a back log of death certificates and report them in one go, when the date of death would be some days prior

194974 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to D B, #688 of 1839 🔗

Okay, thank you.

195014 ▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to John P, 1, #689 of 1839 🔗

No. Reported deaths involves catching up on deaths from an earlier days. When the rate is increasing the reported total can be artificially inflated.

195017 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Ned of the Hills, #690 of 1839 🔗

Only a three-fold difference in range then. Very precise.

195183 ▶▶ annie, replying to Ned of the Hills, #691 of 1839 🔗

Between 240 and 670.
Not much wriggle room there.

194930 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 11, #692 of 1839 🔗

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-54596428

‘Many in Wales will be waiting on tenterhooks to see what he’ll say. One woman, Vicky in Monmouthshire, told BBC Radio Wales: “I kind of think, sadly, it has to happen. I just think we need a reset.”‘

Rest – there’s that word again. On the BBC. It’s filtering into the public subconscious.

194934 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #693 of 1839 🔗
194950 ▶▶ John P, replying to Mr Dee, -7, #694 of 1839 🔗

It may just be coincidence. Either way it does not have to mean anything of significance.

I thin a number of you are reading more into this than is necessary.

194979 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to John P, 9, #695 of 1839 🔗

Sorry disagree, we are under attack and are being continually bombarded with propaganda.

194998 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to John P, 5, #696 of 1839 🔗

Pointing out potential cases of the systematic “nudging” propaganda, and behavioural manipulation, to which we are certainly being subjected, is not necessarily pushing the idea of an overall conspiracy.

It is not open to dispute that our government spends our tax money on propagandising us and manipulating our behaviour – that much is openly known admitted and budgeted for.

195121 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to John P, 3, #697 of 1839 🔗

Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t. But I tend to go with the duck principle, ie if it quacks like a duck,etc…

194959 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Mr Dee, 5, #698 of 1839 🔗

When Vicky says, “I kind of think…” I believe her.

194976 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #699 of 1839 🔗

Nah, Vicky is a plant, ignore

194938 Thomas_E, 5, #700 of 1839 🔗

Not sure if anyone has posted this..But this is pure genius

https://youtu.be/ISxL-3GSKVA

194943 Crazy Times, replying to Crazy Times, 5, #701 of 1839 🔗

Wales going very hard on the lockdown.

194958 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Crazy Times, 3, #702 of 1839 🔗

I reckon it’s an experiment. Other UK governments will be watching closely to see if a hard lockdown works or not, and then adopt policy accordingly.

Wales disposable as usual.

194963 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #703 of 1839 🔗

sorry for wales but gives us a proper experiment

i imagine cases will plateau everywhere regardless of lockdown

194966 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Mr Dee, 4, #704 of 1839 🔗

Lockdowns don’t work, full stop, Mr Dee. Hard or otherwise.

Maybe other UK government will see if the Welsh can get away with it and if they consider it to be politically expedient to copy them.

194972 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to John P, #705 of 1839 🔗

You beat me to it! MW

194975 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to John P, 3, #706 of 1839 🔗

Well, we know lockdowns don’t work of course. The authorities don’t seem to realise that.

194970 ▶▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to Mr Dee, 5, #707 of 1839 🔗

Wales isn’t being used by anyone, except by the Poundshop Dictator Drakeford, who’s using the whole country to indulge his pathological narcissism.

194986 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #708 of 1839 🔗

What do you mean – “works”? How could it possibly “work”?

194991 ▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to OKUK, 1, #709 of 1839 🔗

It couldn’t and even with the evidence of that there will be loud voices claiming that it was because the lockdown wasn’t harder and longer and Dripford will be only too happy to oblige.

195002 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to OKUK, 1, #710 of 1839 🔗

From what Drakeford’s said, his barometer of success is this:

“So this is our best chance of regaining control of the virus and avoiding a much-longer – and damaging – national lockdown.”

In my opinion, doomed from the start.

It’ll never work. Why do we know this, but the Welsh government and their ‘expert advisors’ don’t?

195008 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Mr Dee, #711 of 1839 🔗

They know full well.

195009 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #712 of 1839 🔗

So, for the sake of argument, let’s pretend that a two week lockdown will work. The progress of the virus is stalled. Fewer infections than otherwise when we come out the other side.

Then what?

195019 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Jones, replying to matt, #713 of 1839 🔗

we are two weeks nearer next spring…

195028 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to matt, 1, #714 of 1839 🔗

The same firebreaks will be used in England, I suppose.

And we’ll have firebreaks continually until the vaccine arrives – because cases cannot fall using the current methods of testing.

195209 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to matt, #715 of 1839 🔗

Rinse and repeat ad nausea until they have a vaccine ready..So 1-4 years.

195241 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Jones, replying to Thomas_E, #716 of 1839 🔗

the trouble for mr drakeford is the looming election 6th may, and starting to loom very large.

195010 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Jones, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #717 of 1839 🔗

it will appear to work since it has already peaked.

194993 ▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #718 of 1839 🔗

We tried it in March I don’t know what has merited another one.

194982 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Crazy Times, 3, #719 of 1839 🔗

Cymru is closed,

Just heard that BSer Drayford
lying to the Welsh people about the NHS being about to run out of beds for Covid patients. Will the BBC Reality Check team expose that lie or do they only follow up Trump claims?

195018 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to OKUK, 1, #720 of 1839 🔗

In reality, this was inevitable from the moment that Starmer came out in favour of the “circuit breaker”. As the only Labour leader of a devolved administration, Drakeford could hardly not do it, could he?

194969 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 8, #721 of 1839 🔗

Cheezilla posted a link to the Metropolis website yesterday. This is a huge site purportedly governed by international mayors with a Smart City and ‘blending of of technology with people’ agenda. There is a massive list of sponsors and partners.

Manchester is currently the only participating UK city (funny that!) I will keep digging around in it for more information but it’s going to take days.

Metropolis offers the annual Guangzhou Award (Guangzhou is where the most extreme version of China’s ‘Social Credit’ system is being piloted. It means total surveillance based on facial recognition, public shaming (huge screens on streets showing model citizens (they get rewarded with banners etc.) and malefactors who didn’t pick up dog-poo, failed to visit their parents often enough, thought something dissident, you get the picture.)

The Chinese have already denied free movement including flights, train journeys, car ownership etc to millions of Chinese who have transgressed in some way. The whole Social Credit system, which applies in much of China, relies on an army of paid and unpaid snitchers. Meanwhile, ethnic minorities such as many Muslim Uyghurs are interned in vast ‘re-education’ camps.

https://www.metropolis.org/projects/guangzhou-award-award-cities

The Economist warned about what was going on back in 2018 in a video called C hina: facial recognition and state control https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lH2gMNrUuEY

It got past me, as did so much at the time. . . . MW

194977 ▶▶ CGL, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #722 of 1839 🔗

BBC Click programme covered the Chinese social credit scoring thing at some point in the last year (or possibly 2?). I remember when I saw it, it scared me quite a bit, but I just put it down to those weird Chinese folk and the fact that they are used to being conditioned. I thought ‘that would never work here’ . . .

194989 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #723 of 1839 🔗

It’s funny. In China this stuff is happening because the Chinese, including their rulers, do actually care about the maintenance of Chinese culture and patterns of life. Here, it’s happening for the opposite reason.

195116 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Ovis, 3, #724 of 1839 🔗

The Chinese also comply because they’re punished if they don’t, freedoms which we had until March such as travelling around are withdrawn under the social credit system. Some “disappear” and are never seen again.
China has large “re-education camps.”
That tends to keep people compliant, plus the Chinese revolution under Mao tried to eradicate its culture and history.

195180 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #725 of 1839 🔗

Well spotted MW. Chilling overview!

195810 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Cheezilla, #726 of 1839 🔗

It’s thanks to you for posting it yesterday, Cheezilla. Coupled with all the Chinese investment in Manchester and the incredible amount of building going there, this is starting to make sense. I’m sure Burnham’s current ‘grandstanding’ is part of this bigger picture as well in that they’ll all be signed up to it, including the Government, of course.

Also, I now realise that UK Column have been on to this for a while. https://www.ukcolumn.org/article/global-parliament-mayors-and-abolition-electorate and plenty more! MW

194984 Mark, replying to Mark, 27, #727 of 1839 🔗

Peter Hitchens: The UK economy is going to go over the edge
Peter Hitchens on TalkRadio. Some nice things said about Toby’s site:

Anybody who wants daily reassurance should go to Toby Young’s excellent Lockdown Sceptics website, which has an enormous amount of reference material showing what’s actually happening with things like intensive care bed occupation and the real significance of the supposed “cases” of covid which we are constantly being told are so serious. It’s there, and it’s very well done, and it’s full of links to reference material from serious people, and as a resource for somebody who’s worried I can’t recommend it highly enough. I keep up my own barrage on Twitter and on my blog and elsewhere, but the fact is that probably is the central point at which anybody needs to start if they want reassurance that they haven’t gone mad.

But also wise words imo from one of the earliest and most forthright opponents of the coronapanic:

I’ll recognise that it’s something else when there’s hard evidence that it’s something else, but all my life I’ve seen evidence over many many years of reporting from the front row of the theatre and my nose pressed against the windowpane of history, I’ve seen over and over again the enormously important roles of human stupidity in what happens in life, and I’ve always found it a perfectly adequate explanation for these things which happen. A lot of people are not very bright and …. however it is we select our politicians, I think there is a secret examination during which they have to prove that they’re stupid before they can get in, but however it is we select them, they aren’t very bright. And you can tell by the things that they say that they’re not. So that will satisfy me until there’s evidence of anything else .”

Peter Hitchens is as qualified as any human being in existence to make that judgement, imo, and fwiw I agree with his judgement. Having spent several decades observing and debating politics and world affairs myself, mostly as a dissident outsider who has watched us being lied into war after war, I see no sufficient evidence to abandon the idea that events are overall driven by incompetence, groupthink, petty self-interest, and fear, merely because colossal disasters like this coronapanic happen. There are numerous and constant conspiracies and convergences of interests, but no real sign of active, intelligent overall direction in a controlling sense.

195013 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Mark, 2, #728 of 1839 🔗

If intelligent aliens ever come to Earth to judge the future of mankind, we are well and truly french connectioned!

195075 ▶▶ Mayo, replying to Mark, -2, #729 of 1839 🔗

Peter Hitchens is as qualified as any human being in existence to make that judgement, imo, and fwiw I agree with his judgement.

PH seems quite confused about a number of issues relating to the SARS-CoV-2 virus. He has been far too ready to accept any nonsense without any critical thought providing it agrees with his fixed point of view.

CArl Heneghan provides reasonable well researched sceptical arguments. Hitchens doesn’t.

195141 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Mayo, 8, #730 of 1839 🔗

Hitchens is a journalist and Heneghan is a scientist, so we might expect a different style and depth of output from each.

As to Hitchens supposedly being a bit confused about covid, well given the amount of garbage that has been perpetrated about the virus can we honestly blame him?

As far as being ‘ quite confused about a number of issues relating to the SARS-CoV-2 virus’, how exactly does he compare with, for example, M. Hancock, A. Johnson, N. Sturgeon and M. Drakeford?

Hitchens the journalist has a good nose for sussing out when something isn’t right. He called this out very early, and the momentum of the arguments is now strongly with him.

195378 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Mayo, #731 of 1839 🔗

My reference there was really to making a judgement about the overall big perspective question of conspiracy/cockup in human affairs, and in particular the coronapanic.

194992 Eddy, replying to Eddy, 7, #732 of 1839 🔗

Firebreak lockdown. What the fcuk.

195005 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Eddy, #733 of 1839 🔗

I wonder what difference it will make – to “cases”, deaths and hospital admissions (for Wuhan lab flu)? Significant, minimal or none?

195022 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Tenchy, 4, #734 of 1839 🔗

Place your bets.

Doesn’t really matter. The dodgy figures are so easy for the authorities to fiddle, if they want to.

For the record, I reckon cases continue to go up (due to increased testing), hospital admissions go up (as natural for this time of year), deaths remain within the normal range.

Afterwards, because cases go up, despite the firebreaker, they’ll call for even stricter measures.

195173 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Tenchy, #735 of 1839 🔗

Whatever lies they intend to tell.

195020 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Eddy, 3, #736 of 1839 🔗

since we’ve had the electricians lockdown (circuit breaker) and now the firemans (firebreak lockdown) I am waiting for the joiners (hammertime lockdown). Any other suggestions we should put to the government?

195037 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to JHuntz, 6, #737 of 1839 🔗

Hammertime – literally can’t touch this

195325 ▶▶▶ PatrickF, replying to JHuntz, 1, #738 of 1839 🔗

The Titanic Lockdown, with Doris Johnson as Leonardo di Caprio.

194995 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 25, #739 of 1839 🔗

Nicola Sturgeon has just taken 10 minutes to explain how the latest cock-up in handling the stats means that the positivity rate that she clearly did not want to admit, but has been forced to, has been reduced from 17% to …… 6.7%. How embarrassing!

195004 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #740 of 1839 🔗

Well, you have to divide one number by another. And you have to pick the right numbers as well! It’s not easy, you know…

195029 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Sam Vimes, #741 of 1839 🔗

Quite! How is she going to deliver to the Devi agenda now?

195023 ▶▶ Old Normal, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #742 of 1839 🔗

She’s absolutely clueless, just like her advisers who have no relevant experience between them.

195039 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Old Normal, 1, #743 of 1839 🔗

It’s really frightening that ‘experts’ can go to government and say “Well, theres four of these and three of those, so that’s fifteen altogether”… and government believes them without question.

195043 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Old Normal, 4, #744 of 1839 🔗

A dentist and a public health professor who is neither a scientist nor a doctor. What could possibly go wrong?

195375 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #745 of 1839 🔗

Diane Abbott moonlighting again?

195003 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 12, #746 of 1839 🔗

Of course, not that anyone in a seat of power cares:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8854715/More-26-000-excess-deaths-recorded-private-homes-England-Wales-September.html

‘More than 26,000 excess deaths were recorded in private homes in England and Wales between March and September – but only 3% were caused by Covid-19, official data reveals’

195006 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #747 of 1839 🔗

Only covid deaths matter any more.

195016 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #748 of 1839 🔗

I saw somebody on Twitter try to say that people are probably choosing to die at home in a nicer environment so this is a good thing.

195026 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #749 of 1839 🔗

‘choosing’???!!!

195030 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #750 of 1839 🔗

This is why there will be no apology for the devastating costs of lockdown. There will always be a mental backwater such idiots can retreat to.

195031 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #751 of 1839 🔗

How nice it must be to be able to believe that.

195101 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Nobody2020, #752 of 1839 🔗

I take it that they were suitably disabused of that notion.

195056 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #753 of 1839 🔗

But remember that 500 thousand “could” have died according to Fergie so that’s a success. As long as real deaths are below imaginary deaths we should be happy.

195007 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 12, #754 of 1839 🔗

When a fuse blows or a circuit breaker trips and you simply replace the fuse or turn the breaker back on you end up with another blown fuse or tripped breaker unless you fix the cause.

195025 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #755 of 1839 🔗

The answer, of course, is to use chicken wire. That’ll fix the NHS!

[ Just ask SAGE, if you doubt me. ]

195169 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to IanE, 1, #756 of 1839 🔗

Piano wire will do for SAGE.

195040 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #757 of 1839 🔗

Exactly. 8 months down the line and still the only real plan they’ve got is to just stop doing anything and hope it goes away.

195012 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 2, #758 of 1839 🔗
195033 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Two-Six, 3, #759 of 1839 🔗

Ah, my tri-weekly dose of truth-serum.

195038 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Mr Dee, #760 of 1839 🔗

yes, it helps. I am almost immune to the mind virus.

195044 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Two-Six, #761 of 1839 🔗

I shall watch it later and I look forward to seeing how many “immensely dangerous stuff” s Brian has today.

195115 ▶▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to godowneasy, #762 of 1839 🔗

He even jokes about it himself ha

195191 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Two-Six, #763 of 1839 🔗

Doing the job all serious journalists should be doing – investigating the facts to find the truth so the perpetrators can be held to account. Shame the others have forgotten that that’s their purpose.

195032 Leemc23, replying to Leemc23, 5, #764 of 1839 🔗

From Essex County Council – schools.
W@nkers

“In education settings that teach those in Year 7 and above, students and adults should now wear face coverings when moving around indoors, unless the person is exempt from doing so. This requirement would apply in corridors and communal areas where social distancing is difficult to maintain. We have asked schools to review their risk assessments and to inform you of any changes they have introduced. Parents will need to provide their child with a mask and ensure they know how and when to wear it.
It is now more important than ever for young people, parents an young people, parents and families to consider their actions outside education settings…..”

195042 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Leemc23, 9, #765 of 1839 🔗
195046 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Leemc23, 17, #766 of 1839 🔗

Makes me sick.

And when you see the kids plough out of the gates at the end of the school day, there’s no masks, no social distancing, no bubbles (or whatever they’re called now).

This rule is for control, not for health.

195047 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Leemc23, 3, #767 of 1839 🔗

Ah, ECC, the nightmare council that keeps on giving …

195055 ▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to kh1485, 2, #768 of 1839 🔗

I want to write back and protest. But not sure what to say.

195058 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Leemc23, #769 of 1839 🔗

I think the second line of your post sums it up nicely!

195264 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Lms23, 2, #771 of 1839 🔗

“Wearing a mask is not without side effects. Oxygen deficiency (headache, nausea, fatigue, loss of concentration) occurs fairly quickly, an effect similar to altitude sickness. Every day we now see patients complaining of headaches, sinus problems, respiratory problems and hyperventilation due to wearing masks. In addition, the accumulated CO2 leads to a toxic acidification of the organism which affects our immunity. .. Our Labour Code (Codex 6) refers to a CO2 content (ventilation in workplaces) of 900 ppm, maximum 1200 ppm in special circumstances. After wearing a mask for one minute, this toxic limit is considerably exceeded to values that are three to four times higher than these maximum values. Anyone who wears a mask is therefore in an extreme poorly ventilated room. … ” https://docs4opendebate.be/en/open-letter/ and go and sign it as well!

Dr. Margarite Griesz-Brisson:
“Masks cause oxygen deprivation and permanent neurological damage, especially in the developing brains of children.” Dr. Margarite Griesz-Brisson MD, PhD (a Consultant Neurologist and Neurophysiologist with a special interest in neurotoxicology, environmental medicine, neuroregeneration and neuroplasticity). “I know how damaging oxygen deprivation is for the brain, cardiologists know how damaging it is for the heart, pulmonologists know how damaging it is for the lungs. Oxygen deprivation damages every single organ.”
https://www.sott.net/article/442455-German-Neurologist-Warns-Against-Wearing-Facemasks-Oxygen-Deprivation-Causes-Permanent-Neurological-Damage

The Mask and the Bump, Patrick Corbett assesses the available information
https://off-guardian.org/2020/09/29/the-mask-and-the-bump/

Ignore this so-called science, the masks don’t work, Will Jones
https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/ignore-this-so-called-science-the-masks-don’t-work/

195158 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Leemc23, 4, #772 of 1839 🔗

Depends how constructive you want to be. Or not. I’ve just e-mailed the Turtle’s Head in Cardiff. It didn’t take long to type my two word missive.

195064 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Leemc23, 6, #773 of 1839 🔗

Just sent them this quote from an answer I received form the BMA last week when I question their stance on masks and ask the council for their science and justifications:

•            We appreciate that this is an area in which there is little high-quality empirical evidence. There is, for example, a lack of randomised control trials showing that mask wearing is effective (either indoors or outdoors).

I asked 5 local councils, got this common answer:

I am advised by the relevant council team that we do not hold information and that you should contact the Department of Health and Social Care again, or Public Health England.

So I did and am waiting for the FOI answer which will be interesting.

195068 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #774 of 1839 🔗

To which a response might be ‘So please don’t issue any guidance on matters about which you know nothing’.

195190 ▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #775 of 1839 🔗

I am going to ask them for a copy of the evidence behind their policy. I can’t ask about the RA directly as they will simply refer me to the school’s RA.

195533 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Leemc23, #776 of 1839 🔗

If you are going onto the school’s property the risk assessment applies to you – their duty of care, HSE etc – so you re entitled to see it.

Get through the gate and ask for it.

195427 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Leemc23, #777 of 1839 🔗

It is now more important than ever for young people, parents an young people, parents and families to consider their actions outside education settings…..”

What the fuck has it got to do with them!

195034 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #778 of 1839 🔗

‘Deep and strict’ are the new catchwords. Watch out for them coming soon to your area.

195066 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #779 of 1839 🔗

Fire break has to be ‘strict and deep’ to be effectivePeople should not question why one thing is allowed to remain open while other things must close, Mr Drakeford said.
“Every single contribution that is made to bear down on the virus in these two weeks is important,” he said.
“Some of them may seem marginal but when you add all those little bits together then collectively they can make a difference.”
He said the fire break has to be “strict and deep” to make it as effective as possible, adding that everybody must do the right thing or “it;s other peoples lives and futures that you’ll be putting at risk”.

195087 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #780 of 1839 🔗

This latest lockdown in Wales will work to suppress the virus.
But of course, that leaves two options: if Wales opens up again, the virus will inevitably spread again; the alternative is to relationship down for the foreseeable future, ignoring the absolute destruction to the economy, society, people’s mental and physical health, and the collateral deaths.

195146 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Lms23, #781 of 1839 🔗

Anybody with any sense will just ignore it anyway.

195096 ▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Mr Dee, #782 of 1839 🔗

Haha, do not question my decision. What a wanker.

195142 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #783 of 1839 🔗

For the first time, I might have a banner at the lockdown protest in London on Saturday.

195045 Ricky R, replying to Ricky R, 3, #784 of 1839 🔗

Does this “firebreak” in Wales spell out a lockdown for the rest of us or is it just an experiment to see if it is going to have an impact? I can’t see it being implemented here without more rebellion similar to that of Manchester right now.

195067 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Ricky R, 6, #785 of 1839 🔗

It’s the ‘double-down’ technique.

When you’ve been caught out with a lie, tell a bigger one. It’s actually a technique used regularly by Mr Toad – the head trainer.

195080 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Ricky R, 9, #786 of 1839 🔗

The choice of the term firebreak is revealing. To make an effective firebreak one has to destroy what the fire would destroy before the fire reaches the area and the extent of the destruction has to be so substantial that it is impossible for the fire to jump across the razed area. So by using this term the government in Wales is acknowledging that they are intending to inflict substantial destruction. Do you think it is a Freudian slip?

195120 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Ricky R, 1, #787 of 1839 🔗

Some rebellion in Wales too. Certainly from this household.

195125 ▶▶▶ Tiberius, replying to Nick Rose, #788 of 1839 🔗

Men of Harlech become Man of Harlech, perhaps.

195134 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tiberius, #789 of 1839 🔗

Lol. Thanks, but I’m sure I’ll be far from alone.

195152 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #790 of 1839 🔗

Well I’m here too, so Men fo Harlech.

“Covoids – thousands of ’em.”

195199 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Tiberius, #791 of 1839 🔗

Person of Harlech?

195128 ▶▶▶ Ricky R, replying to Nick Rose, 6, #792 of 1839 🔗

Spread the word, mass non compliance is the way out of this. I hope you’re doing well with the news. I would be completely distraught if I lived in Wales right now.

195131 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Ricky R, 2, #793 of 1839 🔗

Will be in London on Saturday 24th. Trafalgar Square, 1pm.

195200 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #794 of 1839 🔗

I’m not sure if the organisers have absolutely confirmed that it is going to be in Trafalgar Square – they have said that they are going to announce the venue on the day…I would imagine it is going to end up being in Trafalgar though…

195306 ▶▶▶▶▶ PatrickF, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #795 of 1839 🔗

Me too. I like being with the sane.

195184 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Ricky R, #796 of 1839 🔗

It’s not an experiment. They are simply sticking to their argument. “Cases” (i.e. positive tests) predict future deaths. When “cases” go up, put measures and you stop future deaths.

That’s it. They’re not going to listen to any other argument. That is what they believe and they are not backing down from that position.

And it will go on until there is a vaccine of some sort or until the population revolts. Those are the two end game scenarios.

195333 ▶▶ matt, replying to Ricky R, #797 of 1839 🔗

I think the politics of this is going to be interesting in the next week or so.

As I said below somewhere, this was completely inevitable from the moment Starmer came out in favour of a 2 week circuit break. The only Labour leader of a devolved administration couldn’t get away with not following his party’s policy on this when he had the power. Burnham is different – as I understand it, apart from trying to extract more money, he’s also arguing for national measures, not Manchester only – so in line with party policy.

The UK government could at this point panic and cave in so that they don’t seem to be doing too little compared with the opposition. Or they could stick to their guns and hope to take some brownie points from the comparatively even worse economic destruction Drakeford caused in Wales and the (almost certainly) broadly similar results. This could also be a comfortable segue into a less SAGE-aligned policy in general.

It really depends whether Bozo and Cummings have managed to get any political nous back.

One other thing is timing. I believe Johnson is supposed to be hosting the next Bozo the Clown Show early next week. If he announces a “circuit breaker” then, it’s a huge logistical problem, because many people will already be away from home for half term (myself included). What the hell happens then, who knows?

If there’s a briefing announced for today/tomorrow, then dollars to donuts (as the Americans say) he’s announcing a lockdown. If there’s nothing till next week, I’d guess it’s much less likely.

If he does announce one and Sunak doesn’t resign, he will just have revealed himself as a gutless coward, beyond any doubt.

195049 Awkward Git, 7, #798 of 1839 🔗

Hopefully the young man with the MG BGT who was listening in to the conversation me and a sceptic farm shop lady and earlier will end up reading this site.

Hello and welcome to the world of sceptics, truth and facts if you do.

195050 John P, replying to John P, 24, #799 of 1839 🔗

Among other intellectual pursuits I have, I study the Russian language. I’ve been at it for a few years now, but have never studied it formally, and perhaps in part for that reason I am still far from fluent.

As part of my study I have subscribed to a handful of Russian youtube channels. These are all personal rather than business or school channels. Some are actual Russians teaching the language and some are more travelogues.

I was watching the latest postings from a man named Igor last night. Igor is from Chelyabinsk.

Early in September he was in the Altai region (a favorite destination for Russians) with his wife and younger son.

He couldn’t have been more relaxed and chilled. I don’t think I saw a mask for the entire half hour of the video. I think some Russians may be wearing them (elsewhere I have seen them at airports) but there were none wearing them in this one. All there was were lots of Russians holidaying in log cabins, sunshine, crystal blue lakes lakes and breathtaking mountain scenery.

Not a bloody mask in sight.

At the close of this episode Igor focused on a quiet concert being staged in a bar. Four
guitarists sat together and played for a mixed age audience. Some swayed to the music, some couples had romantic dances. The atmosphere was somehow quiet and totally relaxed and happy.

No stress, no masks, no social distancing, no signs warning of impending doom, no nothing. Just people on holiday relaxing and having a good time.

We are, and have been in the UK and elsewhere in the West pummelled. Pummelled by propaganda of political propaganda of various kinds. For years. It has been going on for so long now that we barely even know it is happening to us or can conceive of it not happening.

First we had feminist propaganda and the shaming of males for “sexism”. Then white people are shamed for “racism”.

Russia still has quite a “muscular” culture. By that I don’t mean oppressive. By that I mean men are (at least in my estimation) relatively comfortable with their masculinity and women are very comfortable with their femininity. They don’t stray onto each other’s territory as we do here.

Women have a right to play cricket if they want to. (I can feel the censorious at my shoulder already – I had better watch what I say here!) But I recall a few months ago arriving at my parents house and seeing cricket being played on the tv. I am a little short sighted and didn’t initially realise it was women’s cricket. I thought it was men playing. I couldn’t tell the difference.

Then there is the issue of race. Oh, how I envy the Russians there! There has never been any significant influx of people from other cultures and other races to Russia. Russians don’t understand our obsessions with race as they are almost all white. (As in African countries where people are all black or in China where people are all Asian.) There’s no multiculturalism in Russia or at least not nearly to the same extent.

So as you may guess I am sat here sadly wondering how I can get there. I don’t know a single Russian personally. One of the language teachers I said hello to on her website, but with her men are like bees to honey. And I’m no Casanova. (Perhaps I should say, I am no Casanov). And I think she may bat for the other side anyway.)

So back to the Hell that is modern locked down, miserable, mask-ridden, propaganda pummelled Britain.

195065 ▶▶ RickH, replying to John P, -3, #800 of 1839 🔗

Really interesting insight into maskless Russia.

But don’t get side-tracked into irrelevant hobby-horses like sex and gender and race.

195083 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to RickH, 5, #801 of 1839 🔗

Why?

It’s not exactly a “hobby-horse” when it’s driving so much of our current politics, plus the incessant brainwashing of children.

195965 ▶▶▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to Lms23, #802 of 1839 🔗

I agree. Plus being a skeptic isn’t just a hat you wear for lockdown. I am skeptical about lots of things. Including the rise in gender/identity politics. If you have a child and/or are not a misogynist then there’s reason to be concerned.

195106 ▶▶ Liam, replying to John P, 3, #803 of 1839 🔗

Being somewhat fascinated with Russia myself, I’d guess that the legacy of centuries of suffering put low fatality viral infections into perspective.

195261 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to John P, #804 of 1839 🔗

Thanks for the insights John and contrary to ricks point below I find it endearing that Eastern Europe and Russia appear to have more traditional values.

195854 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to John P, #805 of 1839 🔗

I’m someone with a strong interest in Russia as well so thanks for this. Given how much the Russians have suffered throughout history, perhaps they seem to think that a lot of problems in the West are nothing compared to what they’ve had to put up with.

195062 l835, replying to l835, 4, #806 of 1839 🔗

Lockdown in Wales includes Remembrance Sunday. Says it all…

195175 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to l835, 3, #807 of 1839 🔗

Let’s hope that triggers some resistance.

195063 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 19, #808 of 1839 🔗

11,000 shops closed for good because of lockdown.
In the words of my elder granddaughter ” Well, that went well, didn’t it?”

195073 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Fingerache Philip., 9, #809 of 1839 🔗

It is if that was your intention, and the virus was merely the excuse.

195095 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Lms23, #810 of 1839 🔗

Yes, absolutely a barrel of excuses for those who only wanted half an excuse.

195167 ▶▶▶ peter, replying to Lms23, 1, #811 of 1839 🔗

There is no new virus, it’s all a media hoax. Flu deaths are down 95% this year.

195252 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Fingerache Philip., #812 of 1839 🔗

“Was bound to happen anyway with the rise of online” or “survival of the fittest it’s just capitalism” or “they were too expensive anyway”. A good few of the zealot excuses.

195070 Kevin 2, 1, #813 of 1839 🔗

Little did this man know he would need to reskill.
I think I would go elsewhere if I needed a new garden wall though.

https://news.sky.com/story/nine-in-ten-workers-must-reskill-at-added-cost-of-16313bn-a-year-govt-warned-12108124

195071 Lms23, replying to Lms23, 10, #814 of 1839 🔗

“Scientists aren’t supposed to no-platform other scientists because they disagree with their scientific views.”

They’re not supposed to, but it’s what they’ve been doing for years on other subjects, e.g. man-made climate change, so why shouldn’t they do it for CV19?
Clearly, this virus outbreak and the unwarranted hysteria associated with it are now highly political, not driven by science.

195155 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Lms23, 4, #815 of 1839 🔗

And vaccines. Don’t forget the vaccines.

Vernon Coleman’s repeated offer to debate anyone in favour of vaccines still unaccepted.

195072 Ceriain, replying to Ceriain, 16, #816 of 1839 🔗

DT live feed 12:42 (paywall):

Mark Drakeford says that “every single person” and “every single part” of Wales must make a contribution, and that “everybody, wherever they live, must make their contribution” to the new two-week national lockdown.

“There will be a regime of course when we emerge from this on November 9,” he says. “And we will work hard in the coming days to design that regime so it builds on everything we achieve in our period.

Interesting word to use. 🙁

195099 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Ceriain, 10, #817 of 1839 🔗

The man’s a total cockhead and should crawl back down whichever drain he crawled out from.

195102 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to Ceriain, 4, #818 of 1839 🔗

Yes, but so is ‘contribution.’ The high priest of the local franchise of the Moloch cult requires everyone to ‘play their part,’ make ‘sacrifices’. The ‘contributions ‘ are purely superstitious in nature, without any possibility of rational justification.

195143 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Ceriain, 2, #819 of 1839 🔗

An old joke, but pertinent I think: November 9 which year?

195165 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cicatriz, 3, #820 of 1839 🔗

Just after Remembrance Sunday, when we do honour to those who died so that we might be free.

195233 ▶▶▶▶ Jo, replying to annie, 4, #821 of 1839 🔗

Standing on our fucking doorsteps, according to Govt. I’m going on the parade to the war memorial, I hope there will be some people to join me

195163 ▶▶ annie, replying to Ceriain, 3, #822 of 1839 🔗

It’s his favourite. Papa Josef Stalin Drakeford.

195292 ▶▶ PatrickF, replying to Ceriain, #823 of 1839 🔗

I can feel my right arm, rising at an angle of 45 degrees!

195346 ▶▶ Hairy Bob, replying to Ceriain, #824 of 1839 🔗

Would that be the sort of regime that, in the words of one John Lydon, makes you a moron?

195076 chaos, replying to chaos, 5, #825 of 1839 🔗

In today’s Telegraph:
Tomorrow, the founder and CEO of luxury travel brand Red Savannah will receive a Queen’s Award for Enterprise. Yet the award comes with conflicted feelings. The actions of the government have resulted in him having to make 30 per cent of the firm’s workforce redundant and will result in a “substantial six-figure loss” by the year’s end.

195098 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to chaos, 5, #826 of 1839 🔗

Perhaps he should boycott the award.

195078 Mabel Cow, replying to Mabel Cow, 4, #827 of 1839 🔗

On the subject of our proto-Hitler Youth, check this out . 102 sold!

Please make it stop.

195084 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Mabel Cow, 1, #828 of 1839 🔗

Maybe Nick Bostrum, James Gates, Philip K Philip were right…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkaQUZFbJjE

195104 ▶▶ l835, replying to Mabel Cow, 9, #829 of 1839 🔗

As a Scout Leader, I have been getting more and more frustrated with the way the Association has been run. It’s the home of Woke. Their whole response to Covid has been to run away and hide, and ‘engage in digital scouting’

Over the last 100+ years scouts have helped in times of crisis, looked out for the elderly etc. Not now, look after yourself is the message.

195579 ▶▶▶ Steve, replying to l835, #830 of 1839 🔗

Same here. Increasing levels of political correctness, too much emphasis on modern stuff instead of traditional scouting and a general dumbing down of things. Covid has been the last straw for me.

195227 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Mabel Cow, 4, #831 of 1839 🔗

Some sort of irony that scouts are pretty much banned from camping. What would they need a camp blanket for?

195082 nickbowes, 12, #832 of 1839 🔗

So that will result in Jelly Johnson and his hapless “Laurel and Hardy” of doom to be wheeled out next Monday eve to announce yet more economic misery to the nation based on lies and the bribes of big pharma.

195085 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 24, #833 of 1839 🔗

Wales have now been told they are soon to be on a ‘Firebreak’, not a circuit breaker, its now a firebreak.. Hope they realise that Covid will still be there when it ends, as all ‘essential’ workers will still be mixing and going out. When will someone remove these LUNATICS from our country

195088 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Dan Clarke, 12, #834 of 1839 🔗

And some of us will be ignoring it altogether.

195090 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Nick Rose, 6, #835 of 1839 🔗

I’ve ignored it all so far, but still doing my head in, what’s going on and the people who are following the idiotic ‘rules’

195094 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #836 of 1839 🔗

I followed it the first couple of weeks, then gave up on it.

195130 ▶▶▶▶▶ l835, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #837 of 1839 🔗

Likewise

195092 ▶▶▶ StevieH, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #838 of 1839 🔗

#metto

195154 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #839 of 1839 🔗

Yes.

195157 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to annie, 1, #840 of 1839 🔗

👍

195164 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to annie, 3, #841 of 1839 🔗

That’s three of us. The three musketeers.

195172 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nicky, replying to Mr Dee, 4, #842 of 1839 🔗

Make that four!

195488 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Winter, replying to Nicky, #843 of 1839 🔗

Five! I’m in Ceredigion. If a mass breakout of scrapie from sheep to humans occurs, I might get worried. Or possibly not… I am slightly cross. Actually I’m bloody incandescent.

195093 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #844 of 1839 🔗

A proper firebreak would involve people with immunity stopping the virus reaching the vulnerable.

We can argue about how long immunity may last but we can’t deny that it exists.

195100 ▶▶ Ricky R, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #845 of 1839 🔗

Another “2 week” lockdown. The public has a memory of a goldfish if they truly believe this is a two week event. I never expected this to happen again but here we are.

195108 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to Ricky R, 1, #846 of 1839 🔗

Goldfish have a good memory. They’re even capable of Machiavellian behaviour. The myth that they don’t have long memories came from a gag circa late 70’s by comedian Jasper Carrot.

195117 ▶▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to chaos, 3, #847 of 1839 🔗

Warthogs have pitifully poor memories. They actually forget what they are running away from and can stop in mid chase.

195132 ▶▶▶▶▶ chaos, replying to thinkaboutit, 1, #848 of 1839 🔗

Voters also have poor memories.

195153 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kev, replying to chaos, 4, #849 of 1839 🔗

Therefore voters are warthogs.

195287 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to chaos, 3, #850 of 1839 🔗

This one doesn’t!!!!

195296 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to CGL, 1, #851 of 1839 🔗

Agreed! A lot of people will not forget what these bastards have done.

195144 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to thinkaboutit, 1, #852 of 1839 🔗

Heh heh.

195138 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to chaos, 1, #853 of 1839 🔗

They do indeed. Something like a year for details. And they also see in Technicolor which is amazing in itself.

195198 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Ricky R, 2, #854 of 1839 🔗

I don’t think cases will drop much in 2 weeks. Probably level off like everywhere else. Then they will demand an extension because they were in the same place as when they locked down

195105 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #855 of 1839 🔗

Have they chosen the term firebreak just to make it sound like it is different for the sheer hell of it? Or do they intend to destroy swathes of the country to prevent the fire from spreading?

195118 ▶▶ Hieronimusb, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #856 of 1839 🔗

Where’s the fire and when do we get a break?!

195365 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Dan Clarke, #857 of 1839 🔗

We can only hope it makes no difference whatsoever so Boris doesn’t follow.

Unfortunately however, they will just wheel out some model claiming that deaths would have been 1000 times higher without it.

195539 ▶▶ Will, replying to Dan Clarke, #858 of 1839 🔗

And they will all still have to eat so won’t actually be locked down anyway.

195107 Melangell, replying to Melangell, 2, #859 of 1839 🔗

The Wales lockdown-by-any-other-name has been urged because intensive care beds in hospitals are supposedly nearing capacity. Anyone know how to find out the facts??

195136 ▶▶ Hieronimusb, replying to Melangell, 3, #860 of 1839 🔗

‘Fact’ (in this context) is yet another word that has been treated to gender reassignment.. it now means precisely what you want it to and they can’t nick you for it. As I understand it, hospital bed occupancy – here in Pembs at least – is on the low side for the time of year.

195140 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Melangell, 7, #861 of 1839 🔗

Aren’t intensive care beds usually close to capacity?

We’ve hearing for years how the NHS is over-stretched. Waiting lists have always been a thing.

This is just one more part of the collective psychotic episode. We now have this notion that the NHS used to cope just fine, had plenty of spare resources and only now, because of COVID, it is overstretched.

Think, people, THINK!!!!!!

195151 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Melangell, #862 of 1839 🔗

V difficult to get an honest account. Five days ago was about 326 confirmed Covid “cases” (will no doubt include lots of people in hospital for other reasons, other respiratory disease and false positives). But they won’t all be ICU cases, if ICU is full it’s probably from the negative effects of the spring lockdown. Also the Welsh government say they have plans for 5000 additional Covid beds.

195159 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Melangell, 2, #863 of 1839 🔗

Per official data there are 32 icu beds occupied by Covid patients on the 16 th, the same number as a week ago.

195541 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Melangell, 1, #864 of 1839 🔗

It is not easy to get hospital stats, clearly Toby got the ones for Manchester for todays news-sheet but even when you get them they need some interpreting. The NHS has a huge budget and a large workforce and thus in my view they should have the resources to re-deploy staff and equipment to meet these seasonal demands. We should not be getting locked down to protect the NHS the politicians should be giving the NHS some stick for not being able to cope with a reasonably moderate surge in demand.

195114 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 6, #865 of 1839 🔗

As in the immortal words of Sgt. Lincoln Osiris:

Never go Full Retard

195127 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to mhcp, 1, #866 of 1839 🔗

You can’t say that now.

These days its “Never go the full China”

195119 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 27, #867 of 1839 🔗

Just watching BBC Midlands today and there’s a report about “Covid advisers” on the streets of Coventry telling people to “here we go again” how to social distance/wear masks/wash your hands.
What sad gits would volunteer to do this?
Altogether now, Our collective answer to these “creeps”
“GO AWAY, P××S OFF AND GET A LIFE.

195126 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #868 of 1839 🔗

Good well-meaning and even intelligent people have also been taken in by all of this.

195133 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to chaos, 16, #869 of 1839 🔗

Sorry, if they have been taken in all this time they are either not intelligent or not well meaning. Or both.

195139 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to stewart, 9, #870 of 1839 🔗

Little Hitlers who would sell their grandparents for a arm band.

195239 ▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to stewart, 4, #871 of 1839 🔗

Bizarrely, I do know people who have to qualify as both intelligent and well-meaning who have been taken in. What they forget is to “Only Connect” one thing with another:
“Only connect the prose and the passion, and both will be exalted, and human love will be seen at its highest. Live in fragments no longer.”
E. M. Forster, Howards End

195265 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to stewart, 3, #872 of 1839 🔗

Agreed. “Useful idiots” in the phrase often attributed to Stalin but probably by someone else.

195301 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #873 of 1839 🔗

It might be people who have lost their jobs due to the pandemic . AND THEY ARE ANGRY!

They are angry at people who DON’T wear masks, who DON’T socially distance and who don’t follow the rules because it is because of people like this that they lost their real jobs.

(i.e. not the people they should be angry at. Lambs to the slaughter)

195135 DRW, 8, #874 of 1839 🔗

Went past my former secondary school this morning. Very heartening to see absolutely no
antisocial distancing or rule of six enforcement during break, and later on the classrooms looked fairly normal. Sadly universities are very zealous. I wish they would just close as the New Abnormal campus isn’t worth attending. Still I’ve heard that many at mine left halls after hearing about the gulags elsewhere. They’ve done the council area a favour!

195148 stewart, replying to stewart, 3, #875 of 1839 🔗

Question for a virologist:

How many viruses are typically floating around in a cubic metre of air?
Does the air I normally breath have some viruses floating around, none or millions?

195193 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to stewart, 3, #876 of 1839 🔗

grillions

195230 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to steve_w, 1, #877 of 1839 🔗

You don’t sound like a virologist..:-)

195258 ▶▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to stewart, 5, #878 of 1839 🔗

To be fair, he makes more sense than Valance and Whitty.

195149 annie, replying to annie, 23, #879 of 1839 🔗

Bugger the Welsh firebreak.
Bugger the Welsh Politburo.
Bugger the lot of them.
They can go to hell where they belong.

195162 ▶▶ Nicky, replying to annie, 4, #880 of 1839 🔗

Nothing more than political game playing. Totally unjustified. Infection rates in Powys in single digits only. So angry, so frustrated and so powerless to stop them. They are destroying our economy and lives.

195187 ▶▶▶ Melangell, replying to Nicky, #881 of 1839 🔗

Where did you find out about Powys? I’d like to find out all the counties’ covid statistics to bother my ld zealot neighbors with

195217 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Melangell, #882 of 1839 🔗

You can access the full data on Wales from Wales Online.
Alleged Covid deaths last week (whole country). – three.

195226 ▶▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to annie, 2, #883 of 1839 🔗

Where are our lawyers??????

195367 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to CGL, 2, #884 of 1839 🔗

some are challenging but all it takes is one govt lawyer to pull a sickie and the case is put back a month.

195221 ▶▶▶▶ Nicky, replying to Melangell, #885 of 1839 🔗

Our local figures and the county times. Mid Wales, Pembs and Ceredigion have the lowest rates in Wales. Local mp and mayor not in agreement with this and saying the decision is not proportionate but comrade drakeford a law unto himself now and apparently not answerable to welsh parliament any more

195182 ▶▶ CGL, replying to annie, 1, #886 of 1839 🔗

I said you’d be a little bit cross.
I wish they hadn’t made this place hell before they go.

195189 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to annie, #887 of 1839 🔗

There may be a website for that. Not work suitable though.

195218 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Ovis, #888 of 1839 🔗

We’ll have to retrain.

195231 ▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to annie, #889 of 1839 🔗

That’s hardcore.

195150 John Ballard, replying to John Ballard, 11, #890 of 1839 🔗

I see Wales have the latest politician intent on grabbing the limelight;
Check out the official Office of National statistics data….since the 7th August….to the 2nd October (new week out tomorrow). Deaths in Wales = 586 a week…..5 year average =571 a week. So for an additional 15 deaths a week….2.5% they will lockdown their economy for 2 weeks, thousands more lose their jobs and waste millions more that could be spent on something productive. When will this madness end?

195160 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to John Ballard, 7, #891 of 1839 🔗

The problem is, as I see it, is that some people know how ridiculous this all is, but are more terrified of the fact that their government might be lying to them. They’d rather believe the lies instead of facing the fact that this is the case. It’s just less painful.

195166 ▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to captainbeefheart, 8, #892 of 1839 🔗

(The Krankie woman was on BBC just now. They reported ONE death. ONE. JUST ONE in the last week)

195171 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to captainbeefheart, 4, #893 of 1839 🔗

One is one too many. Lock down the lochs!

195201 ▶▶▶▶▶ jb12, replying to OKUK, 5, #894 of 1839 🔗

Lochdown!

195277 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to jb12, 3, #895 of 1839 🔗

Lochdoon

195203 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to OKUK, 2, #896 of 1839 🔗

Don’t tell me it was Nessie?

195211 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #897 of 1839 🔗

No, but it was certainly a monster.

195308 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to annie, #898 of 1839 🔗

I think she tells whoppers, anyway.

195417 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to captainbeefheart, 2, #899 of 1839 🔗

Do you mean singular one there.

We must up our guard covid is clearly planning a night assault by parachute and with holding troops for the operstion.

There was a West Lothian care home labelled to be having an outbreak last week. 4 or 5 deaths at the one establishment an investigation under way. That amounted to one third of Scotland’s total.

195168 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to captainbeefheart, 1, #900 of 1839 🔗

Good question. I’d say if you are in a busy supermarket with little ventilation probably thousands per cubic metre but I’m not a virologist!

195196 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to captainbeefheart, 4, #901 of 1839 🔗

They are lazy and need to be spoon fed what to think, what to eat and what to watch and how to be entertained. They enjoy rolling over and having their bellies tickled.

Why think when deliveroo will deliver their dinner and Netflix can tell them what to watch.

195178 ▶▶ stewart, replying to John Ballard, 4, #902 of 1839 🔗

Never because the rationale is not that the lockdowns are because there are too many deaths now, but in order to prevent excess deaths in the future. They believe the test figures give advanced warning of that. So if they see the number of “cases” (i.e. positive tests) go up, they believe that if they implement measures, they can stop the excess deaths.

That’s the government’s entire argument.

195358 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to John Ballard, #903 of 1839 🔗

https://youtu.be/aCdaaPRuwws

Like these idiots. Walking into a shop and asking the owner if there is anything they need help with.

What do they expect from this? A shop owner to tell them a tale of an unmasked customer roaming the town centre?

Oh, they are in HIGH VIZ. MUST BE IMPORTANT

195161 BeBopRockSteady, 2, #904 of 1839 🔗
195186 Ewan Duffy, replying to Ewan Duffy, 14, #905 of 1839 🔗

The Guardian really are the gutter press – headline:”Anti-lockdown advocate appears on radio show that has featured Holocaust deniers”
smearing Dr Martin Kulldorff as a holocaust denier by implication.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/19/co-author-anti-lockdowns-letter-appeared-far-right-radio-show-martin-kulldorff-great-barrington-declaration-richie-allen-show

195188 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Ewan Duffy, 1, #906 of 1839 🔗

I bet he believes in shape-shifting lizards too

195192 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to Ewan Duffy, 5, #907 of 1839 🔗

Guardian printed on woodpulp once handled by climate denyer

195274 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Ovis, 3, #908 of 1839 🔗

Guardian started many years ago by cotton magnate and slavery advocate

195300 ▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to steve_w, 2, #909 of 1839 🔗

Guardian refused to print reports of Stalin’s purges by Malcolm Muggeridge, its Moscow correspondent in the 1930s.

195208 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Ewan Duffy, 6, #910 of 1839 🔗

David Irving, notorious holocaust denier, was interviewed on the BBC’s Hardtalk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JF4GFGMNm3g&list=PLhVR8YO4pFh2QEs6AINTp0oxaDVuRauI-&index=24

Someone should tell the Guardian

195232 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Ewan Duffy, #911 of 1839 🔗

They (the guardian) said a while ago they were going to run this, framed exactly like that. Scumbags!

195246 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Ewan Duffy, 2, #912 of 1839 🔗

I’m not denying a holocaust, but since we can all clearly see the narrative is controlled by the powers that be.. it is quite likely some or a lot of fibs were told about Hitler et al. Certainly the often qouted 6 million dead figure was a number plucked from thin air at the Nuremberg trials. Auschwitz (now a museum) in Poland has revised down the numbers dead several times. History is written by the victors. And so is the present.. and alas the future. Interestingly The Nuremberg trials split IG Farben (the operators of Auschwitz) into 3 entities in recognition of the danger the company had posed. BASF, Bayer, Hoechst, and AGFA. Hoechst eventually became Sanofi and Clariant.

195330 ▶▶▶ concrete68, replying to chaos, 1, #913 of 1839 🔗

Quibble about 6m all you like. Not sure why you would. I’m sure you have your reasons but you might not be honest about them

195465 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to concrete68, 1, #914 of 1839 🔗

As if facts mattered, eh, Concrete ?

195526 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to chaos, #915 of 1839 🔗

The most reliable figures that sort of tallied up with the Nazi books, population records and the camp documentation say 100-150 thousand and they ere mostly “administrative death”.

Start researching here:

https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/sociopol_holocaust01.htm

195878 ▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to chaos, #916 of 1839 🔗

Why write shit like that ? .Do you want us to be smeared also ? imagine if the guardian were to come across your mental rambling they would have a field day and all the rest of us would be branded alongside .What we need to do is stick to ending the lockdown and keep away from any murky side issues that others can use against us and harm the cause .

195268 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Ewan Duffy, 1, #917 of 1839 🔗

Guilt by association is an obvious fallacy but is routinely used in politics and media.

195276 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Ewan Duffy, #918 of 1839 🔗

One of the most disgusting pieces of “journalism” I’ve seen for a long while.

Incidentally, Wikipedia regards, the Guardian as a “reputable source”. They use it extensively as reference in this biased article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Barrington_Declaration

195279 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Ewan Duffy, 4, #919 of 1839 🔗

The ‘antisemitism’ slur is a favourite of the Groan – which is a perversion that will disgust people with a sense of history and morality – but that’s where the Groan festers in the spectrum of media.

There is a warped rationality in its use as a propaganda tool, since the Israeli State has always used it to head off criticism of its abhorrent behaviour. The link to the ‘House Journal of MI6’ (read ‘Cabinet Office’ and establishment network) is that Israel is seen as a major western asset/collaborator in the Middle East and is thus is supported at every turn, with ‘antisemitism’ being used as the key in the propaganda narrative.

It all fits together.

195349 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Ewan Duffy, 1, #920 of 1839 🔗

Haha. Richie Allen actually said to Martin K that this would happen. So scripted.

195202 stewart, replying to stewart, 32, #921 of 1839 🔗

I think we’ve seen enough rounds of this game to envisage what the end is.

The government’s argument is that positive tests predict the number of future deaths. If positive tests go up, they put some measures. If deaths don’t go up, the measures worked. If they continue to go up, they put more measures.

That’s the argument and they are sticking to it. Nothing is changing their minds.

This goes on until a vaccine of some sort appears or the population lose patience and revolt, hence the fierce propaganda and suppression of dissent.

That’s it. Nothing else to discuss. All the evidence that one could possible put forward to end this madness has been presented (Sweden, false negatives, the futility of the cycle of lockdown and reopening, the dodgy stats, the cherry picking) If none of that makes a dent, nothing else will.

Don’t mean to be a downer but there are two possible outcomes: vaccine or revolt.

195210 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to stewart, 29, #922 of 1839 🔗

I vote for revolt

195303 ▶▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to captainbeefheart, 5, #923 of 1839 🔗

I’m revolting, too. 🙂

195728 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to TheOriginalBlackPudding, 1, #924 of 1839 🔗

Never did like black pudding, but ready to make common cause for the greater good of Being Revolting.

195213 ▶▶ Julian, replying to stewart, 12, #925 of 1839 🔗

I think we here are in general trying to provoke revolt of a sort, by sharing information and formulating arguments that we then present to non-sceptics in various settings in the hope of persuading more people over to our side. It is working, slowly.

195225 ▶▶ FlynnQuill, replying to stewart, 11, #926 of 1839 🔗

Common sense, facts and evidence do not work. I fear only a revolt will put an end to this utter madness.

195256 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to FlynnQuill, 3, #927 of 1839 🔗

‘they’ have to re-evaluate what freedom means to them, until then they will play along

195263 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to FlynnQuill, 6, #928 of 1839 🔗

A Revolt needs the numbers (in both senses).

195463 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to FlynnQuill, #929 of 1839 🔗

Maybe. But co mmon sense, facts, and evidence do work, in that they will ensure there are enough of us setting fire to Westminster.

195280 ▶▶ peyrole, replying to stewart, 5, #930 of 1839 🔗

The vaccine that is going to rushed through FDA emergency use approval is no better then paracetamol and cough medicine, but with unknown side effects. It will get approval on the back of ridiculously low criteria and less than 100 people tested.
All governments will lie about its totally unproven immunity or ability to lessen bad effects or death. all governments will quickly move to enforcement rather than persuasion. It will form the basis of the new biotech passport requirements, ie no vaccine, no travel.
Testing will be reduced, some restrictions will be lifted. As populations will have already reached anti-body plus T-cell immunity, the number of hospitalisations and deaths will decrease. Governments will hail it a great victory and the vaccine becomes part of life for everyone from thereon.
None of the emergency laws will be repealed, surveillance will be maintained through apps and the biotech passport. Masks will still be encouraged , just in case and they are obviously a necessary way for people to protect themselves against any virus in the future. Sporadic reintroduction of the forced use will occur, to keep us knowing who is boss.

195368 ▶▶▶ jb12, replying to peyrole, #931 of 1839 🔗

Sounds about right.

195472 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to stewart, 1, #932 of 1839 🔗

It will be revolt, but most likely a quiet one – at least for now, while society is still half-functioning. As I’ve said before on here, those who refuse to comply with restrictions are unlikely to shout about it or broadcast it for fear of repercussions. People will be going about their lives with quiet resistance now and the restrictions will gradually break down as the government loses authority and control. Of course, if the govt really clamp down or things get very bad (mass job losses, food shortages, etc) then the revolt will become violent.

195204 Ewan Duffy, replying to Ewan Duffy, 10, #933 of 1839 🔗

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/1019/1172463-retail-sector-warnings/

TLDR Another 60,000 jobs losses in Ireland if non essential shops are forced to close. The following part of the article (linked above) shows the mentality of our overlords:

The minister said the Government want to make the message clear and straightforward, and he urged the media not to question or undermine what will be announced later today.

In other words, STFU and do as you are told.

195262 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Ewan Duffy, 4, #934 of 1839 🔗

“Not to question …”. How bloody Orwellian can you get?

195348 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Ewan Duffy, #935 of 1839 🔗

All in it together.

195364 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Ewan Duffy, #936 of 1839 🔗

… he urged the media not to question or undermine what will be announced later today.

I can see why you emphasised that.

OMG; that’s a frightening thing for someone to say.

195212 Eddy, replying to Eddy, 5, #937 of 1839 🔗

How close are we to mass food shortages?

195215 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Eddy, 4, #938 of 1839 🔗

January.

195222 ▶▶▶ Eddy, replying to stewart, 1, #939 of 1839 🔗

How long do pot noodles last?

195251 ▶▶▶▶ Melangell, replying to Eddy, 9, #940 of 1839 🔗

I read that as “pot poodles” – let’s hope we don’t come to that. 🙂

195286 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Melangell, #941 of 1839 🔗

LOL

195294 ▶▶▶▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to Melangell, #942 of 1839 🔗

Hot dogs?
Or Korean cuisine?
Or canines on cannabis?

195345 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Melangell, #943 of 1839 🔗

I’d rather feed bits of myself to my dog than bring myself to eat her.

195223 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to stewart, 1, #944 of 1839 🔗

Why do you think January? Not disputing, just asking

195224 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Rosie, 4, #945 of 1839 🔗

Hard Brexit. Will cause disruptions, either real, manufactured or imagined.

195228 ▶▶▶▶▶ Eddy, replying to stewart, 3, #946 of 1839 🔗

Blame Brexit? makes sense.

195240 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to stewart, 1, #947 of 1839 🔗

Brexit? Won’t make any difference to stuff coming IN.

195242 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Nick Rose, #948 of 1839 🔗

It will if the French want it to.

195243 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Eddy, replying to stewart, 4, #949 of 1839 🔗

The French can send it all over in dinghys, there will be no problems then.

195253 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Eddy, 3, #950 of 1839 🔗

There is a regular timetable of dinghies

195259 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to stefarm, 3, #951 of 1839 🔗

Buy a boatload of Camembert, get refugees free.

195298 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to Eddy, #952 of 1839 🔗

Better ensure it’s guarded by migrants, just to make sure it gets through any military live firing exercises.

195244 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to stewart, 1, #953 of 1839 🔗

They won’t be stopping stuff going OUT. That’s sales. Other way, well that’s up to them.

195293 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ peyrole, replying to stewart, 2, #954 of 1839 🔗

Lights only stayed on in UK yesterday and today because the French exported 100% of interconnector. Wind gen almost non-existent, gas, nuclear, biomass are maxed out. If this happens in midwinter its curtains for the grid, it would takes days to recover.

195391 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Rosie, 1, #955 of 1839 🔗

Somebody was on Sky News earlier saying stocks of fresh food will be depleted after Christmas and Brexit causing disruptions will affect resupply.

195235 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to Eddy, 9, #956 of 1839 🔗

Urgent government announcement: food supplies may have been contaminated with Covid, and must therefore be burnt. All food to be surrendered to the police, in exchange for a certificate of destruction.

Covid zero one step closer.

195357 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Ovis, #957 of 1839 🔗

I could totally see them telling us that we may only eat food that has been boiled or heated to greater than 100C for more than 5 minutes. Fresh fruit and veg banned – too risky.

195238 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Eddy, 1, #958 of 1839 🔗

About three hours in Wales. Maybe four.

195343 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Eddy, #959 of 1839 🔗

Been trying to put this out of my mind since someone posted it last week

http://www.iceagefarmer.com/

195522 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Eddy, #960 of 1839 🔗

Couple of months before the masses art to notice properly.

Increasing amounts of stuff not coming through the supply chain – look at the ages on the shelves of shops.

195229 annie, replying to annie, 7, #961 of 1839 🔗

Official stats for Wales today:

  • A total of 25 people were being treated on invasive ventilated beds, including in critical care, for confirmed or suspected coronavirus, according to the figures on 13 October – three fewer than the week before, although NHS Wales said it expects this figure to rise
  • Both the Cwm Taf Morgannwg and Aneurin Bevan, two of the main “hotspot” areas for infections over recent weeks, had six patients each, and another six were in Betsi Cadwaladr health board.
  • Latest figures from NHS Wales Informatics show there are five times as many patients in critical care with other conditions.
195237 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to annie, #962 of 1839 🔗

Sounds about right. Not quite enough to panic over though, surely?

195272 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #963 of 1839 🔗

its just posturing by politicians. something must be done, this is something, lets do it etc

195248 ▶▶ Melangell, replying to annie, 2, #964 of 1839 🔗

Thank you so much for this info Annie – Will shout from the rooftops. [You may even hear me in Tenby 🙂 )

195302 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Melangell, #965 of 1839 🔗

I’ll be listening!

195234 annie, replying to annie, 7, #966 of 1839 🔗

More Welsh reporting:

“Wales has one of the lowest mortality rates for coronavirus during the pandemic so far, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS).
The 75.7 deaths per 100,000 people up until the end of July is lower than England and all its regions, apart from the south west and south east.
London had the highest with 143.3. At a local level Cardiff has the highest mortality rate in Wales.
Figures also show 14 communities with no Covid-19 deaths registered at all.”

And that’s the BBC!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53946092

195249 ▶▶ Melangell, replying to annie, 1, #967 of 1839 🔗

Brill – thanks!

195339 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to annie, #968 of 1839 🔗

Interesting. There is only cases stoking fear. Depressing.

Running the same scenario for my local area in Northern Ireland, which has the highest case rate per 100,000 in Europe, deaths per 100,000 is on 13.8. 90% of whom are over 70 years old. 65% over 80.

195245 Ceriain, replying to Ceriain, 10, #969 of 1839 🔗

48 people have now died after coronavirus outbreaks at Cwm Taf hospitals

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-hospital-deaths-cwm-taf-19110941

Stay away from hospitals – Protect yourself from the NHS – Save lives

195250 ▶▶ Eddy, replying to Ceriain, 6, #970 of 1839 🔗

Average age 82

195267 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Ceriain, 14, #971 of 1839 🔗

Instead of having the NHS, the government should just have morphine distribution centres and covid treatments centres.

If you have a deadly condition (other than covid), you can just get your free doses of morphine and see yourself off at home.
If you have covid, you can go to a covid treatment centre, because that’s the only illness worth treating now.
And if you are a bit ill or just not feeling not great, suck it up.

A blueprint for UK healthcare post 2020.

195275 ▶▶▶ Ed Phillips, replying to stewart, 2, #972 of 1839 🔗

Will there be a tax cut?

195290 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to stewart, 2, #973 of 1839 🔗

Ironically, it’s probably a large majority of people critically ill with covid that are already suffering from incurable/untreatable conditions that will prove fatal within months

195283 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Ceriain, 1, #974 of 1839 🔗

Isn’t this the usual died with not of Covid? How many of these people would we have expected to die of their existing health conditions in the same time period? By the way an “outbreak” is two or more cases.

https://cwmtafmorgannwg.wales/latest-information-on-novel-coronavirus-covid-19/covid-19-outbreak-cases-faqs/

195247 Eddy, replying to Eddy, 12, #975 of 1839 🔗

I can’t see Wales coming out of this brutal lockdown until March at the earliest.

195255 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Eddy, 5, #976 of 1839 🔗

Thanks, just what I wanted to hear right now.

195257 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Eddy, 10, #977 of 1839 🔗

We can’t be that far off total economic collapse.
Once that happens, all bets are off.

195266 ▶▶▶ Eddy, replying to stewart, 4, #978 of 1839 🔗

I think we have 6 months before total collapse. That’s assuming off licences remain open.

195270 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Eddy, 4, #979 of 1839 🔗

Or when the much coveted snake oil “vaccines” come out.

195466 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Eddy, 6, #980 of 1839 🔗

People will stop listening and complying if it goes on that long. A lot of people on here despair that the ‘sheep’ just keep wanting more restrictions and that they will comply, but I think what we need to remember is that those who refuse to comply are unlikely to shout about it due to the feared repercussions, and those who want more restrictions are very vocal about it because it makes them appear virtuous. It’s much easier to virtue signal than it is to speak out against the measures, it does take balls, especially on social media forums where people aren’t necessarily anonymous like Facebook and to a lesser extent Twitter. It’s easy for us to do it on here because we’re anonymous for the most part and this is also a forum dedicated to criticising restrictions.

Unfortunately the same cannot be said about the businesses who will be forced to close so they have no choice but to comply, but remember we still haven’t really felt the economic consequences of this folly yet. We’ve still only had full lockdown in the pleasant spring/summer months when it was a novelty and the government were paying for it. Now the purse strings are tightening and the cold, dark nights are drawing in. There will be consequences.

195269 Ceriain, replying to Ceriain, 10, #981 of 1839 🔗

DT Live feed 14:34 (paywall):

Seventy-six people who tested positive for coronavirus have died in hospitals , NHS England has confirmed, taking the total number of confirmed reported hospital deaths in England to 31,047.

Patients were aged between 47 and 99 years old, all of whom except one – aged 85 –  had known underlying health conditions . The deaths recorded were between October 9 and October 18.

Bold is mine.

people who tested positive for coronavirus have died “: doesn’t say what they died of
all of whom except one – aged 85 –  had known underlying health conditions “: so, 98.68% of them

195355 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Ceriain, 3, #982 of 1839 🔗

They need to start doing this for other viral infections. We need to know how many people who tested positive for rhinovirus, adenovirus, norovirus and flu have died today too. Otherwise it’s just meaningless drivel.

195273 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 19, #983 of 1839 🔗

Anyone figured out the real reason why they are doing this? Not much dissent from Parliament. Businesses either seeing their life’s work go down the pan in a matter of months. NHS who invited the media in to see their chaos in the past, now won’t let anyone in to see.

195278 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Dan Clarke, 16, #984 of 1839 🔗

Mass surveillance of everyone from cradle to grave. Covid is a Trojan horse.

195282 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Dan Clarke, 12, #985 of 1839 🔗

Tories/Krankie/Drakeford stealing billions from the public finances and giving it to their friends, family and donors in the form of contracts.

195291 ▶▶ concrete68, replying to Dan Clarke, #986 of 1839 🔗

Humans are flawed?

195317 ▶▶ Eddy, replying to Dan Clarke, #987 of 1839 🔗

he road map and aim was set out by the PMO and is as follows (note similarities to Victoria):
– Phase in secondary lock down restrictions on a rolling basis, starting with major metropolitan areas first and expanding outward. Expected by November 2020.

– Rush the acquisition of (or construction of) isolation facilities across every province and territory. Expected by December 2020.– Daily new cases of COVID-19 will surge beyond capacity of testing, including increases in COVID related deaths following the same growth curves. Expected by end of November 2020.– Complete and total secondary lock down (much stricter than the first and second rolling phase restrictions). Expected by end of December 2020 – early January 2021.– Reform and expansion of the unemployment program to be transitioned into the universal basic income program. Expected by Q1 2021.– Projected COVID-19 mutation and/or co-infection with secondary virus (referred to as COVID-21) leading to a third wave with much higher mortality rate and higher rate of infection. Expected by February 2021.– Daily new cases of COVID-21 hospitalizations and COVID-19 and COVID-21 related deaths will exceed medical care facilities capacity. Expected Q1–Q2 2021.– Enhanced lock down restrictions (referred to as Third Lock Down) will be implemented. Full travel restrictions will be imposed (including inter-province and inter-city). Expected Q2 2021.– Transitioning of individuals into the universal basic income program. Expected mid Q2 2021.– Projected supply chain break downs, inventory shortages, large economic instability. Expected late Q2 2021.
– Deployment of military personnel into major metropolitan areas as well as all major roadways to establish travel checkpoints. Restrict travel and movement. Provide logistical support to the area. Expected by Q3 2021.
The whistleblower said committee members asked who would become the owner of the forfeited property and assets in that scenario and what would happen to lenders or financial institutions. “We were simply told “the World Debt Reset program will handle all of the details.
“Several committee members also questioned what would happen to individuals if they refused to participate in the World Debt Reset program, or the HealthPass, or the vaccination schedule, and the answer we got was very troubling.
“Essentially we were told it was our duty to make sure we came up with a plan to ensure that would never happen. We were told it was in the individual’s best interest to participate.
“When several committee members pushed relentlessly to get an answer, we were told that those who refused would first live under the lock down restrictions indefinitely. And that over a short period of time as more Canadians transitioned into the debt forgiveness program, the ones who refused to participate would be deemed a public safety risk and would be relocated into isolation facilities.
“Once in those facilities they would be given two options, participate in the debt forgiveness program and be released, or stay indefinitely in the isolation facility under the classification of a serious public health risk and have all their assets seized.”
The whistleblower said the heated discussion “escalated beyond anything I’ve ever witnessed before”.
“In the end it was implied by the PMO that the whole agenda will move forward no matter who agrees with it or not, that it won’t just be Canada but in fact all nations will have similar roadmaps and agendas, that we need to take advantage of the situations before us to promote change on a grander scale for the betterment of everyone.
“The members who were opposed and ones who brought up key issues that would arise from such a thing were completely ignored. Our opinions and concerns were ignored. We were simply told to just do it. All I know is that I don’t like it and I think it’s going to place Canadians into a dark future.”

195281 chaos, replying to chaos, 7, #988 of 1839 🔗

Evil Davos Rockerfeller Cummings Misfits Thoughts #2
A scamdemic casedemic can be ‘cured’ with a placebo vaccine. And you still get to the digital ID.

195338 ▶▶ DRW, replying to chaos, 3, #989 of 1839 🔗

Problem, Reaction, Solution.

195284 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #990 of 1839 🔗

Interesting from Alex Berenson on Mark Lipsitch who attacked the idea of herd immunity. Apparently Mr Lipsitch wrote a piece in 2008 stating that “interventions that limit transmission can paradoxically increase the burden of disease.”:

https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1318176090867798016

The unrolled thread:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1318176090867798016.html

195320 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #992 of 1839 🔗

It seems the entire infrastructure and guidance around pandemic response has been flipped for Covid.

Another sign this is not about public health

195297 Darryl, replying to Darryl, 21, #993 of 1839 🔗

If politicians are using the ‘Greater Good’ argument for blanket lockdowns and requiring normal citizens to sacrifice their incomes. Isn’t it about time that state employees particularly those in the civil service take a temporary pay cut until the lockdowns are over?

There is absolutely no incentive for them not to have lockdowns. The top tier State employees with guaranteed incomes will be able to pick up cheap assets from distressed sellers in the private sector. We now live in a society with essential (usually state) and non-essential jobs (basically second class citizens).

195309 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Darryl, 2, #994 of 1839 🔗

And this is how the seeds of discontent are sewn

195352 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 3, #995 of 1839 🔗

Perhaps but the various parts of the Establishment and so called National Institutions such as the National Trust, Arts Institutions and BBC are all rabidly pro lockdown and the people at the top have nothing to lose as the institutions will always be bailed out or have guaranteed income streams.

195310 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Darryl, 5, #996 of 1839 🔗

They already have. MP’s have given themselves a -£3,300 pay cut.

195318 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to captainbeefheart, 2, #997 of 1839 🔗

I think you mean pay rise.

195321 ▶▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #998 of 1839 🔗

No, a £3,300 pay cut.

In other news, chocolate rations have INCREASED from 3 squares to 4 squares a day.

195334 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to captainbeefheart, 4, #999 of 1839 🔗

Doubleplusgood. 👍🏻

195388 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to captainbeefheart, #1000 of 1839 🔗

I’m not sure if you are joking here captain, but you are confusing the issue.

MPs have given themselves a £3,300 pay rise.

195329 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to captainbeefheart, 3, #1001 of 1839 🔗

I see what you did there. 😉

195384 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to captainbeefheart, #1002 of 1839 🔗

Pay rise!

195311 ▶▶ Eddy, replying to Darryl, 2, #1003 of 1839 🔗

Great point. Get it trending #

195315 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Darryl, #1004 of 1839 🔗

By state employees, do you have in mind Boris Johnson and the rest of the members of parliament?

195337 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Steve Hayes, 6, #1005 of 1839 🔗

I mean anyone above a certain pay grade with authority. So, yes MPs would qualify, local authority chiefs, all the employees on £100,000 plus at de facto state bodies such as Transport for London and the countless quangos. Also I would like to see all the highly paid lockdown supporting bosses at institutes such as the Tate, National Gallery, National Trust etc take a salary cut.

Also no local or national government employee on furlough above a certain pay level should be on 100% whilst the government restrict the earnings of private sector employees who will be expected to make up the pension deficits and national budget deficit through higher taxation in the future.

195925 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Darryl, #1006 of 1839 🔗

Unfortunately they won’t take a pay cut. One way to force them to is for people to vote with their feet and wallets and boycott the likes of the Tate, National Trust and National Gallery.

The National Trust are making over 1000 people redundant, what are the odds that the top management have taken a pay cut? I seriously doubt they did.

195316 ▶▶ l835, replying to Darryl, 2, #1007 of 1839 🔗

My ex works for the DWP, and has been working from home since March, saving train fares, etc. And in her words “long may it continue”

195326 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Darryl, 9, #1008 of 1839 🔗

And isn’t it nauseating the way they always say “sacrifices will have to be made by everyone” as though they will be feeling the pain also.

195342 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to kh1485, 2, #1009 of 1839 🔗

Yes, Senior Civil Service and MP pensions are guaranteed through future taxation they can’t lose. Other de facto state organisations such as Transport for London will always receive taxpayer bailouts or loan guarantees.

195383 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Darryl, #1010 of 1839 🔗

What hashtag do you want for it? #PublicSectorPayCut

195405 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to thinkaboutit, #1011 of 1839 🔗

The figure was 3360.
I believe without knowing the 60 is important to some.

If you are of a mind that 33 pops up too often for comfort then I propose 60 is a number that signifies something. Perhaps 60 can be rationally calculated via interest rates and london allowances, but to me it is an odd figure to arrive at.

195447 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, #1012 of 1839 🔗

Divisible by 12 ?

195312 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 9, #1013 of 1839 🔗

BBC R2 News 15.00 today.
Dementia at home deaths up 80% since lockdown, heart attack deaths at home up 20%.

195314 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to karenovirus, 10, #1014 of 1839 🔗

And yet, Wales is shutting down to Save our NHS

195335 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Dan Clarke, 21, #1015 of 1839 🔗

Exactly.

I wish they’d stop referring to it as “Our” NHS. It’s certainly not mine and I want none of this crap in my name.

195928 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 1, #1016 of 1839 🔗

Agree. I don’t want to be a part of this horror show.

195354 ▶▶▶ Smelly Melly, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #1017 of 1839 🔗

Don’t you mean the CHS all other conditions are unimportant.

195468 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #1018 of 1839 🔗

It’s to save the NHS from the public, who pay for it…

195324 ▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to karenovirus, 4, #1019 of 1839 🔗

Those bald statistics relate to families, to people affected by lockdown. So that’s more eyes opened to the iniquity of it all.
I remain optimistic that we will reach a tipping point where sufficient people will cry “Enough!” and the whole edifice will crash. When it comes, it will come suddenly.

195351 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to karenovirus, 1, #1020 of 1839 🔗

Not arguing with the harms of lockdown obviously.

But is this an increase in deaths compared to average, or just a change in the location? Would these normally have happened in hospital anyway, but are now at home instead?

195381 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to A. Contrarian, #1021 of 1839 🔗

The BBC did not elaborate but some conclusions are clear.

195313 VickyA, replying to VickyA, 11, #1022 of 1839 🔗

I would like to see rebellion from inside too. For fans of “Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy” to invoke the spirit of the Dentrassi. They were employed by the Vogons but worked against them whenever they could. So anyone out there working for clueless managers, politicians, journalist bosses or bureaucrats do what you can to make their life harder if you can. E.g. Signposts to information that’s publicly available but buried.
After hearing such heartbreaking stories on here and even if you think your hands are tied, there are still ways to put spanners in the works and slow them down.

195362 ▶▶ Arkansas, replying to VickyA, 5, #1023 of 1839 🔗

Common re-Purpose.

195322 AnotherSceptic, 9, #1024 of 1839 🔗

I posted this away back in April, But I would like to post it again.
It is a computer game called We Happy Few & it’s pretty much like mirroring our lives as they are now.

https://youtu.be/_jImtLDRnBU

“ Played from a first-person perspective, the game combines role-playing, survival, and light roguelike elements. Taking place within the mid-1960s, following an alternative version of World War II, players take control over one of three characters, each of whom seek to complete a personal task while escaping the fictional city of Wellington Wells – a crumbling dystopia on the verge of societal collapse, due to the overuse of a hallucinogenic drug that keeps its inhabitants blissfully unaware about the truth of their world, while leaving them easily manipulated and lacking morals.”

The citizens have to take a pill called “joy” & if they don’t take their “joy” pill, they are punished severely by the police & other brainwashed citizens.

Who would have thought a computer game released back in 2018, would be like life now?

Scary stuff.

195341 Basics, replying to Basics, 7, #1025 of 1839 🔗

One from Simon Dolan

https://twitter.com/simondolan/status/1318071769002090501?s=20

Simon Dolan #KBF
@simondolan
·
8h
They asked me to go on this ‘debate’. After I chatted with the researcher they no longer wanted me there.

I wonder why…
Quote Tweet

Channel 4
@Channel4
· 20h
“It is the virus killing the economy, not the restrictions themselves” says Prof Devi Sridhar, chair of global public health at the University of Edinburgh. #C4LockdownDebate

There is a 40sec clip of Sridhar looking sickly and saying as per the quote.

Important to record this stuff. Professional conduct is worth while recording.

195347 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Basics, 21, #1026 of 1839 🔗

“It is the virus killing the economy, not the restrictions themselves” says Prof Devi Sridhar

She is completely insane!

195353 ▶▶▶ Suzyv, replying to Ceriain, 15, #1027 of 1839 🔗

Insane and frankly quite dim.

195359 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Ceriain, 11, #1028 of 1839 🔗

She is saying it because increasingly people are realising it’s the opposite. She’s trying to maintain hers and the Establishment’s narrative, and finding it ever more difficult to do so.

195370 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Ceriain, 3, #1029 of 1839 🔗

What is she getting in return for her proclamations I wonder.

195374 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to leggy, 1, #1030 of 1839 🔗

What the leverage might be is very intriuging.

195369 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Basics, 6, #1031 of 1839 🔗

I made the mistake of watching a few minutes of that last night. One family came on who stated that they owned 11 pubs. They had permanently closed down five but he was prepared to close more, make more redundant etc. in order to save lives. I despair.

195350 So Confused, 3, #1032 of 1839 🔗

Did anyone see the article in the DT – “While the West locks down, China Parties”? Could someone tell me please who is Daniel Falush. He claims “there is one ongoing outbreak in China at the moment, in the city of Quingdao , that has been traced to imported seafood”??? Why does the DT print this nonsense?

195356 Rosie, replying to Rosie, 1, #1033 of 1839 🔗

The Great Reset. Please will someone outline for me what this is. World Economic Forum plan, that’s all I know so far. Many thanks.

195360 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Rosie, 5, #1034 of 1839 🔗

A wide-ranging series of social, economic and industrial changes to globally reduce production and consumption, increase automation and move towards more renewable/sustainable approaches. Mass redundancies will be addressed with univeral basic income (and probably social credit).

195361 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Rosie, 4, #1035 of 1839 🔗

Your guide to the Great Reset:

https://www.corbettreport.com/greatreset/

195372 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Mr Dee, #1036 of 1839 🔗

Thank you both. I’ll start listening in a minute.
Q1 In anyone’s opinion, is it basically ‘all bad’ or is it a mix of good and bad?
Q2 What is the earliest evidence that Boris signed up to this?

195377 ▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Rosie, 4, #1037 of 1839 🔗

This speech from 2017 shows that the government were already on board then.

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-4th-industrial-revolution

195386 ▶▶▶▶ dickyboy, replying to Rosie, 8, #1038 of 1839 🔗

It is excellent for the elite who will gain more power. It is absolutely catastrophic for everyone else. So, if you average all that out, the net effective is ‘everything fine’.

195392 ▶▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Rosie, 8, #1039 of 1839 🔗

Whatever you can pretty much bet that for the “little people”, the worlds workers and grafters it will NOT be good.

195397 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Rosie, 2, #1040 of 1839 🔗

As your research will inform you the term The Great Rese is a new branding applied to old ideas. The New World Order tag old and toxically associated with take your pick – Gordon Brown. This new brand is fresh and new to keep the dissenters off guard.

195436 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Rosie, #1041 of 1839 🔗

All bad, not in our interests at all since most of us will be redundant economically and socially.
Surplus to requirements.

195380 ▶▶ John P, replying to Rosie, -1, #1042 of 1839 🔗

Not everyone believes in this. I don’t and nor do Peter Hitchens and Toby Young.

When genuine evidence that governments are involved in this appears I may believe in it.

Critical thinking applies here too!

195385 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to John P, 4, #1043 of 1839 🔗

The Great Reset is a real thing being pushed by the WEF, whether it is anything to do with Covid is another question entirely.

195396 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #1044 of 1839 🔗

Sigh, oh I know. But that does not mean that what is happening now is directly connected to it, and that this is all a pretext to usher in the changes that the GR proposes.

I do not believe that covid is a scam. I think it is real and that governments panicked, completely overreacted, and now they seem unable and unwilling to give it up.

The lunatic green revolution that Boris Johnson is now engaged in was in the Tory party manifesto last year.

195406 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to John P, 1, #1045 of 1839 🔗

I, at least somewhat, agree with your points. I was just answering a direct question about what The Great Reset is.

IMO, there is a general move, albeit at a glacial pace, towards many of the concepts that The Great Reset encapsulates. My suspicion is that it’s being increasingly thrown around at places like Davos and giving it a name and a slogan is an attempt to accelerate things.

195411 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Cicatriz, #1046 of 1839 🔗

Yes, but I do not share your opinion. You believe this if you want to.

You cannot force me to believe what you are saying.

Some of you people go on and on and on about this. Unless and until there is hard evidence to support the idea that covid and lockdowns are a pretext to bring this in then I will not believe it.

It is a paranoid conspiracy theory. That is not a criticism – it is a fact.

Believing in it endangers your mental health. Apply your critical thinking skills to this too!

195419 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to John P, 2, #1047 of 1839 🔗

I’ve barely posted anything about the Great Reset.

I am not forcing you to believe anything. Seriously, what have I said that remotely suggests this?

195416 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to John P, 3, #1048 of 1839 🔗

The lunacy of the Green Revolution we definitely do agree on, and there’s an article by Boris in the Daily Telegraph ten years ago where he says he believes in it.

195425 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Rosie, 1, #1049 of 1839 🔗

Rosie, you asked a question regarding the so-called “Great Reset”, but you seem very ready to be convinced.

I do not doubt that some people consider that a “Great Reset” is a good idea.

BUT I do not – and I will not – accept without hard evidence to prove it that what has happened this year since March has anything to do with it!

195433 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to John P, 4, #1050 of 1839 🔗

These conversations would be a lot more constructive if please you will quit making assumptions about me. Speak for yourself – ask me questions – but don’t jump the gun as regards what’s in my mind or what my knowledge set already consists of.

195480 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ helen, replying to Rosie, 1, #1051 of 1839 🔗

These politicians do not have beliefs or morals just backers they need to please..

Gone are the days when these types studied PPE because they were interested in philosophy… or has it always been so?

195442 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to John P, 1, #1052 of 1839 🔗

Boris has tied his green revolution onto lockdown so it’s not in his interests to end it soon

Same as King In Waiting, Charlie the tree whisperer.

195457 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to karenovirus, #1053 of 1839 🔗

That’s my impression, but it’s hard to keep up. Have you got a link by any chance to Boris overtly connecting lockdown to Green stuff? (Charles I remember specifically – I’d like a link for that as well if you have one, thanks)

195492 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Rosie, 2, #1054 of 1839 🔗
195657 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Rosie, 1, #1055 of 1839 🔗

Hancock and Johnson are definitely talking about the green economy. They don’t connect the lockdowns specifically, but do reference the pandemic as a vehicle for re-setting the economy and they definitely see it going green. You’ll have to sift through the video, but Boris is featured in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O31AfWoBfaI&t=562s

195644 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Cicatriz, 2, #1056 of 1839 🔗

Covid is an accelerator. At a minimum it’s a great opportunity to push the agenda. There’s no controversy over whether the Great Reset is for real — it’s completely out in the open — and there’s really no controversy about whether the WEF, WHO, UN, etc. are seeing Covid as an opportunity to push the world in that direction as they have said so on many occasions since March. The Computing Forever guy on YouTube has a great video on this called Connecting the Dots: The Great Reset and the Fourth Industrial Revolution. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O31AfWoBfaI&t=562s

195399 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to John P, 3, #1057 of 1839 🔗

What does ‘not believe in it’ mean, John P? The World economic Forum website is genuine, is it not? and the World Economic Forum is pretty much the same thing as Davos, right? and that’s definitely real.

195404 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Rosie, -4, #1058 of 1839 🔗

Where did I say that WEF is fake? Where?

For goodness sakes. I do not believe that this has anything to do with the lockdowns.

Stop trying to harass me with this.

I don’t have to have the same opinions as you.

195409 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to John P, 1, #1059 of 1839 🔗

Watch today’s UK Column. The mockdown is all about compliance.

https://www.ukcolumn.org/

195426 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1060 of 1839 🔗

Yes, I agree that the lockdown,masks etc are all about compliance …. trying to work out where the Great Reset fits in.
By way of example of the questions in my mind is the debt that’s being racked up…. and the evidence from the Green agenda that they want to replace the existing currency with a carbon currency….and whether that relates to the Great Reset.
Obviously we’re not dealing here with a monolithic entity, I understand that.

195412 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to John P, 3, #1061 of 1839 🔗

I’m not trying to harass you, quite the opposite, John P. I’m trying to find out what the various opinions are and so yours, which is different to the average here, is particularly interesting to me. So that’s why I tend to direct my questions to you! But I must say here that you do not know what my opinions are and please do not make that assumption. I’m not one to form my opinions out of thin air, which is why I want to know about this Great Reset – and want to know what you mean by your words of not believing in it.

195717 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to John P, 1, #1062 of 1839 🔗

I just upticked you again.
Conspiracy theories do not help.

195467 ▶▶▶ helen, replying to John P, 3, #1063 of 1839 🔗
  • Its existence as a plan (Economic resetting, reimagining, remindsetting, snooping facist control freaky blah blah blah is all there on the WEF website.. that much is indisputable.
  • Its connection to the pandemic was theorised by some but certainly known to many others close to and in Government (TY and PH also perhaps)
  • Evidence this has been in the planning for years and that the UK Gov have been planning the 4th Ind Rev/great reset plan/ idea since at least 2017 is now also indisputable…. see leggy’s link above
195715 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to John P, 1, #1064 of 1839 🔗

I just upticked you, John.I think that stupidity, hunger for power, and sheer personal nastiness, plus fear of facing the consequences of their actions, are amply sufficient to put these twats in the grip of evil.

195430 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Rosie, 3, #1065 of 1839 🔗

Rebranding of New World Order. Democracy is replaced by oligarchy, in our own best interests natch.

Google ‘ China social credit ‘ where they have been working on it for 30-40 years, now ready to roll it out on the West.
A health care professional told me how The Chinese are implementing it in (on/to?) Cambodia, not pretty

195363 chaos, 3, #1066 of 1839 🔗

Evil Davos Rockerfeller Gates Cummings Misfits Thoughts #3
Reduce carbon emissions, by reducing consumption and travel.. and people breathing out. Population.

If I was evil I’d do that with a mandatory vaccine.

195366 Hieronimusb, replying to Hieronimusb, 18, #1067 of 1839 🔗

We don’t need a firebreak in Wales, we need a windbreak to stop all the hot air coming from Cardiff and Westminster.

195376 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Hieronimusb, 6, #1068 of 1839 🔗

We don’t need to be locked down – but Drakeford is so crazy he should be locked up

195379 ▶▶▶ Hieronimusb, replying to Londo Mollari, 3, #1069 of 1839 🔗

Are you saying that Drakeford is ducking the real issue? He’s full of t-waddle and that’s a ‘fact’!

195413 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Hieronimusb, #1070 of 1839 🔗

How long before you can vote him out ?
4 years same as us ?

195429 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to karenovirus, 2, #1071 of 1839 🔗

We didn’t even vote him in. I never heard of him before last March.

The position of FM is selected from among elected Senedd members, I believe. He has absolutely no direct authority from the people, as far as I can see.

195705 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Londo Mollari, #1072 of 1839 🔗

My current sticker reads

DON’T LOCK DOWN WALES
LICK UP DRAKEFORD.

Feel free to plagiarise.

195980 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to annie, #1073 of 1839 🔗

Sorry, should be ‘lock up’ !!!

195371 Basics, 1, #1074 of 1839 🔗

Discharge Rates. Trying to find NHS hospital discharge rates. This link to NHS Scotland data states ‘The next release of this publication will be 4 August 2020.” Yet there appears to have been no update.

https://www.isdscotland.org/Health-Topics/Health-and-Social-Community-Care/Delayed-Discharges/Previous-Publications/

For anyond interested the July report covers a period up to May. It says such things as:

‘In May 2020, the average number of beds occupied per day due to delayed discharges was 685. This is similar to April 2020 when the daily average was 676, but substantially below the average for the previous 2 years.’

Substantial being used to describe a ~60% reduction on a strongly consistent prelockdown figure.

195373 JME, replying to JME, #1075 of 1839 🔗

195389 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to JME, 6, #1076 of 1839 🔗

That sums up my mood perfectly.

195401 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Sarigan, 6, #1077 of 1839 🔗

Grey and empty?

195424 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to CGL, 4, #1078 of 1839 🔗

Grey
You are a practical, down to earth person and responsible.
You don’t like too much attention, you like to fade into the back ground.
You have a desire to protect yourself, you often feel like you are in danger.

195443 ▶▶▶ JME, replying to Sarigan, 4, #1079 of 1839 🔗

Ha! Ha! Thanks! Totally unintentional post unsurprisingly but you turned it around with that comment- cheers!

195382 Nick, replying to Nick, 8, #1080 of 1839 🔗

It’s time to stop calling people lockdown sceptics and and present them as anti-lockdown champions. Their combined expert knowledge and commitment to seeing the truth overcome the lies is justification enough. We should all push this more positive description on every social media and MSM platform.

195847 ▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Nick, 2, #1081 of 1839 🔗

Lockdown Liberators .

195390 Basics, replying to Basics, 55, #1082 of 1839 🔗

Mr Peter Hitchins referred to Lockdown Sceptics as being a central site for serious thorough information on Talkradio either today or yesterday. He has a half hour weekly slot on a Talkradio programme and suggested LS is a great resource for people to learn away from the broken mainstream news sources.

Well done all commenters, contributors and them up above for creating such a place.

Invaluable and needed.

195398 ▶▶ John P, replying to Basics, 12, #1083 of 1839 🔗

He was very complimentary, though I think his praise was mainly (and rightly) directed at Toby Young:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPLwdUcfR4g&feature=youtu.be

195434 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to John P, 5, #1084 of 1839 🔗

I think without his contributors and the input of readers and commentors spreading the word Toby’s site wouldn’t be half what it is. Pour yourself a sherry John P and realise your part in making a dusty corner of the internet live.

195452 ▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Basics, 4, #1085 of 1839 🔗

Agreed. Toby and Will read the comments. I’ve had stuff I posted picked up and commented on ‘above the line’, so has BobT and many others too.

195839 ▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Basics, #1086 of 1839 🔗

It was today on Mike Graham talk radio.Everyone can watch its on youtube .

195393 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 8, #1087 of 1839 🔗

It isn’t about health in Wales:
comment image

195400 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Sarigan, 5, #1088 of 1839 🔗

Pretty much all over third week of May really.

195403 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1090 of 1839 🔗

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m3979

The more certain someone is about covid-19, the less you should trust them

 Is this the middle ground? New article BMJ 19 th Oct

195410 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to swedenborg, 3, #1091 of 1839 🔗

I am certain that the government’s response is disproportionate.

195407 maggie may, replying to maggie may, 27, #1092 of 1839 🔗

I’ve been out in the garden digging this afternoon to try and channel the anger. First i read Arnie’s tragic story, then i hear about another man who has killed himself after his mental health visitor had begged the specialist team to see him knowing that he was at risk but they said no, not possible.

A friend of mine’s mother is seeing a consultant on Thursday for the results of a biopsy on a lump found in her breast, she is very worried anyway about Covid, doesn’t leave the house, so this as well is obviously even more frightening. Can my friend or her partner go with her mum to the appointment? No, she has to go alone.

Added to which same friend’s partner was collecting a prescription from their GP the other day. There was an elderly man who had walked to the surgery in the hope of getting an appointment as he had been unable to get through on the phone despite repeated efforts. The receptionist just sent him away and told him to keep trying. It’s inhuman, how can Hancock et al sleep at night?

195415 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to maggie may, 16, #1093 of 1839 🔗

Psychopaths have no problem sleeping.

195455 ▶▶ Paul, replying to maggie may, 5, #1094 of 1839 🔗

It’s an absolute bloody disgrace,our daughter is a hospital porter and she has often seen patients spouses,partners and carers prevented from entering the hospital with them,she is disgusted by it.On a few occasions when she has had to take the place of the security goon on the entrance door she has let people accompanying patients in.
Our friend said someone she knows had a doctors appointment last week,when he came out he went to the reception desk and asked to book a flu jab and was told he would have to telephone to book one,to the same office he was standing in.

195408 Tommo, replying to Tommo, 30, #1095 of 1839 🔗

Nice to see lockdown sceptics website isn’t the only place to read sceptical comments. BBC News website currently flooded with sceptical comments, with very large up votes. We have some way to go to gets govts to change policies, but at least big section of UK population finally waking up.

195448 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Tommo, 11, #1096 of 1839 🔗

My bf reads the BBC (not because he particularly likes it, but because he’s a stingy cheapskate and hates the other free news website, the Groan) and he noticed the sceptical comments on there today as well. Put me in a very good mood indeed – I know it’s been said a lot on here, but the tide may finally be turning for real.

195414 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 8, #1097 of 1839 🔗

Stop blaming flu virus for all deaths in Spanish flu. Most died of secondary bacterial pneumonia and no antibiotics available. That could explain the less death rate in Asiatic and Hong Kong flu pandemics which affected younger persons. Stop comparing Spanish flu with C-19 which is an almost exclusively a geriatric pandemic in terms of mortality.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/bacterial-pneumonia-caused-most-deaths-1918-influenza-pandemic

(One of the Co-authors Fauci)

195421 ▶▶ merlin, replying to swedenborg, 10, #1098 of 1839 🔗

Covid kills 82 year old with serious health issues, spanish flu was taking out 28 year olds

195418 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #1099 of 1839 🔗

Ross Clark:

…. one key factor in the decision to move Greater Mancester into the highest tier seems to have been left out of discussions so far: cases in the city are now falling and are showing signs of levelling off in the other nine boroughs that make up Greater Manchester. In the city – which has been the seat of the local epidemic, and which accounts for 20 per cent of the population of Greater Manchester – the seven day rolling average of new cases peaked on 3 October at 461. A week later it was 382 and by last Saturday, 17 October, it was 243, though that figure may be revised up. While infections in other boroughs have yet to show a sustained fall, they have either levelled off or are no longer rising exponentially.

http://i8.cmail19.com/ei/j/67/340/5A3/csimport/19graph1.132028.png
Nor do reports of overflowing hospitals stack up. On Sunday, the Observer reported what it called a leaked NHS document showing that 211 out of 257 critical care beds in Greater Manchester were occupied on Friday – 82 per cent of the total. It echoed reports from a Liverpool councillor last week which claimed that 95 per cent of intensive care beds in his city were occupied – a claim which didn’t stand up to closer examination. If 80 per cent of Greater Manchester’s critical care beds are currently occupied, this would in fact be less than last October, when Manchester University Hospitals Trust recorded that 87 per cent of its beds (94 out of 108) were occupied.
http://i9.cmail19.com/ei/j/67/340/5A3/csimport/19graph4.143319.png
Wherever the Observer figures came from, they didn’t quite match up with the picture painted by Dr Indeewar Kapila, an intensive care consultant in Manchester, on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme this morning. Speaking of intensive care beds rather than critical care beds, he said that on Friday, 90-100 out of 270 were occupied. A YouTube video released by Andy Burnham claims that as of last Tuesday, 55 ICU beds in Greater Manchester were occupied by Covid-19 patients. Kapila also described the situation as ‘very concerning’, saying he was worried what might happen over the next couple of weeks if cases translate into a rise in emergency admissions. But for the moment, hospitals in Manchester have capacity.

195431 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1100 of 1839 🔗

Thanks, Cheezy. Ross Clark doing the good work there.

How’s your DIL? ❤️

195438 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ceriain, 8, #1101 of 1839 🔗

Thanks for enquiring. Was hoping to do an update for all the wonderful people who responded last night. Still waiting to hear …..

Meanwhile, I would like to express my gratitude for all the lovely support and encouraging comments from everyone here.

I’ll let you know if there’s any more news.

195459 ▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Cheezilla, #1102 of 1839 🔗

👍🏻

195440 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, #1103 of 1839 🔗

The graphs didn’t come out here but the links work. Well worth a look.

195420 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 19, #1104 of 1839 🔗

Fighting back against the masks:

https://twitter.com/CovidDissident/status/1318004560875708418

I have put my local bakery on notice that this kind of discrimination against people who cannot wear masks will not be tolerated.

195435 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Nick Rose, 6, #1105 of 1839 🔗

well done

195513 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Victoria, 1, #1106 of 1839 🔗

Well done to Spencer, who is @CovidDissident.

195422 Achilles, 6, #1107 of 1839 🔗

Funnily enough the tier system might be helping us sceptics a little bit because regions are looking at the data a bit more critically than before because they feel hard done by. Of course it can go the other way where public figures argue to have more restrictions in their areas! I can only assume those people were dropped on their heads as babies.

195423 Ceriain, replying to Ceriain, 13, #1108 of 1839 🔗

BBC live feed

We learnt at the weekend that some people in England who have been told to self-isolate by NHS Test and Trace could have their details shared with the police.

In England there is a legal requirement to isolate after a positive test and you can be fined for not doing it.

But the developers of the NHS Covid-19 app have stressed that police will not have access to any data from the app.

The contact-tracing app – which has been downloaded more than 14 million times since it launched in September – is anonymous, so the government does not know who has been sent instructions to self-isolate.

The news from NHS Test and Trace on Sunday led to worried app users taking
to social media to say they would delete it over privacy concerns.

“the government does not know who has been sent instructions to self-isolate.”

Making the app pointless.

Only a complete idiot would phone their boss and tell them the app had told them to isolate, without any details of who they were in contact with, when the contact was, or where ; then a couple of weeks later… again, then a couple of weeks later… again.

195439 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Ceriain, 6, #1109 of 1839 🔗

Beeping brilliant.

“The news from NHS Test and Trace on Sunday led to worried app users taking
to social media to say they would delete it over privacy concerns.”

That gets the brain cells working behind the masks better than a full battalion of sceptics every could.

195441 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Ceriain, 7, #1110 of 1839 🔗

I’m confused.

The government has made a big song and dance about how the data from the app is anonymous, and then the DHSC say they will be passing information about people who are self-isolating to the police.

Er, what?

“Anonymous. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”

For those who might have missed it, here’s my Trap and Trace picture from yesterday. Paste it into your social media and lose some more friends!

195511 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Mabel Cow, #1111 of 1839 🔗

It’s not the app passing the info, Mabel. It’s T&T.

It works like this: MIL just back from Spain; email from T&T said they would phone her to check she was ‘complying’; should they get 3 no-pickups from her, then they would pass details to the cops; the cops would then come and knock on her door.

It’s got nothing to do with the app.

That’s the confusion.

195545 ▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Ceriain, #1112 of 1839 🔗

So the rozzers are only being set on those people who are self-isolating because they have been abroad to a non-travel corridor country, not those who have been notified of “contact” with someone who has tested positive for SARS-CoV-2?

195559 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Mabel Cow, #1113 of 1839 🔗

So the rozzers are only being set on those people who are self-isolating

because they have been abroad to a non-travel corridor country…

No, it applies to anyone who has been told by T&T to isolate. Not the app, though, because the app doesn’t know who you are; it doesn’t get that sort of personal info from you.

If the app tells you to isolate, you can ignore it. Essentially, the app is utterly pointless.

195582 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Ceriain, 1, #1114 of 1839 🔗

Thanks for the clarification.

My confusion stems from there not being any distinction in my head between the nuts and bolts of the app and the T&T system that sits behind it.

As a programmer myself, I just naturally assume that they would suck up every last crumb of data they could.

For example, the location of the phone whilst being charged at night basically tells you where somebody lives. It’s not a great leap from there to knowing exactly who someone is, especially if the phone is charged somewhere different during the day (e.g. at work).

195641 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mabel Cow, #1115 of 1839 🔗

They wanted to suck up every piece of data they could, which was why they pursued the NHS-X app option for as long as they could. But they failed and had to go for the Apple/Google option instead (with a skin, essentially).

I’m not sure I trust either Apple or Google not to suck up every piece of data they can – it is after all Google’s mission statement – but I probably trust them more, at least to keep other people from getting their hands on it.

195749 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to matt, #1116 of 1839 🔗

In the light of the foregoing clarifications, I’ve taken down my Trap and Trace picture because it misrepresents the situation.

Got to do my bit for honesty.

195824 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Mabel Cow, #1117 of 1839 🔗

Wasn’t telling you off, Mabel. 😉

… I just naturally assume that they would suck up every last crumb of data they could.

Oh, they are! Believe me they are! You’re right about that, and the rest. The FAQs for the app lay out what they collect.

edit: I’d leave your picture up. The T&T app is changing (evolving) all the time. You can bet some real naughties will get added, one drip at a time.

195845 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Ceriain, #1118 of 1839 🔗

I’ll leave it down for now. The text on my picture was a little weak anyway.

I’ll spawn a process in my head to think of a more brutal version.

196046 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Mabel Cow, #1119 of 1839 🔗

I’ll spawn a process in my head to think of a more brutal version.

Go for it!

195432 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 12, #1120 of 1839 🔗

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8855239/Tram-passenger-punched-man-60s-took-mask-speak-elderly-mother.html and https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8854555/Moment-thug-without-mask-throws-PUNCH-female-bus-passenger.html

Very good comment re the former “ Now we have people policing people. What right has the ordinary person got tell other people what to do or not do. Reminds me of a certain guy in Germany in the 30s who turned people onto other people.”

Re the latter , OTT reaction but why provoke it?

195451 ▶▶ Mark, replying to arfurmo, 2, #1121 of 1839 🔗

Only time thugs are actually useful….

195619 ▶▶ Graham3, replying to arfurmo, 1, #1122 of 1839 🔗

Another Stanford Experiment?

195437 flyingjohn, replying to flyingjohn, 17, #1123 of 1839 🔗

I have a very simple solution to this madness.

The public sector and the private sector must be treated in exactly the same way. If there is another national lockdown, everyone, including the whole public sector must be confined at home.

Then, either, the salaries of all public sector workers (including all politicians) to be reduced by 40%, or, all private sector wages to be paid by government at 100%. In this way, we would all be in this together, right?

If this was official policy, there would never be another lockdown.

195445 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to flyingjohn, 4, #1124 of 1839 🔗

I don’t see how that helps. Ultimately everyone should be getting 100%. Otherwise no such policy has any merit. End of. You cannot / should not implement any policy on anyone that makes them 20% worse off.

I’d love to blame someone – such as the faceless civil service, but it’s only MP’s and the Cabinet who can be blamed.

195449 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Leemc23, 9, #1125 of 1839 🔗

But the current policies make people 100% worse off.

195485 ▶▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #1126 of 1839 🔗

Exactly why the current polices should not be in place and never ever should have been put in place. I am not furious about today’s policy diktats. I am furious about what they did in March and beyond.

195454 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to flyingjohn, 8, #1127 of 1839 🔗

Furlough MPs and it’s all over.

195456 ▶▶▶ JME, replying to Sam Vimes, 6, #1128 of 1839 🔗

Furloughing is too good for them (with a few honourable exceptions): just sack them- no pay, no redundancy pay out!

195487 ▶▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to JME, 3, #1129 of 1839 🔗

Agree. This is negligence on a mass scale punishable by prison terms. That’s the minimum.

195957 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to JME, #1130 of 1839 🔗

And no pensions as well.

195483 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1131 of 1839 🔗

Wouldn’t notice the difference.

195482 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to flyingjohn, 4, #1132 of 1839 🔗

Hemp rope for the perpetrators works pretty good as well.

195591 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1133 of 1839 🔗

Hemp is too good for them.
But at least it is a natural fibre and we do not want to add to the plastic waste.

195821 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Silke David, #1134 of 1839 🔗

How about the traditional drawn, hung and quartered instead?

195484 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to flyingjohn, 3, #1135 of 1839 🔗

How about the banks get the lockdown as well and all debt/interest payments owed by small businesses get frozen until the restrictions are lifted?
The gov’t orders you to shut down and stop earning an income but the debt just piles up and eventually buries you. Yes that’s fair!

195518 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to flyingjohn, 10, #1136 of 1839 🔗

I’m a civil servant and I have been confined at home since March. I’ve been working from home and yes there are benefits to that but there are also downsides. There’s been a few comments on here recently having a go at civil servants which I find unsettling.
Johnson, Hancock, Sturgeon, Drakeford, Vallance, Witty and co are complete imbeciles, no one can deny that but there is quite a difference between MPs & senior politicians such as the aforementioned and the average civil servant.
The vast majority of civil servants, particularly at the lower grades are ordinary people who are working to pay their bills and put food on the table. I know of many who have really struggled over the past 7 months with isolation, home schooling, not being able to see friends and family etc. Granted, we do have more in the way of job security at the moment but that’s not to say that there won’t be redundancies in the future once (more) austerity measures are implemented to pay for this farce. We also pay taxes and when the tax increases come we’ll pay them too.
Civil servant or not, I wish as much as anyone else on this site that this fiasco was over and done with.

195555 ▶▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 5, #1137 of 1839 🔗

I agree with you totally on this. I dusted up with someone this morning over at Going Postal about this. Lower grade civil servants are not on high pay. I used to be one until 1990. My son now is one. If you cut his pay by 20 or 30% he would be forced to give up his job because he couldnt afford to pay his rent! It would force him home to his parents and at 30 years of age that’s not an ideal move, much though we’d love to have him home again.
26k is around the annual salary, there are a lot of lowr CS grades who don’t reach that figure. People constantly spouting bile against the “civil service” need to remember that they are not all high-up types in plush offices pulling six-figure annual sums.

195572 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 7, #1138 of 1839 🔗

The same happened when ‘they’ labeled bankers as the baddies – easy scapegoat and people still hate the bankers. It was also a sleazy propaganda project and frequently used by Ministers to keep the heat off them.

It was the investment bankers (some of their ponzi schemes nearly crippled the financial services industry) but everybody in the banking industry including the cashiers, administrators, IT people (keeping ATMs and online banking going), product people etc are labeled as ‘bankers’

195858 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Victoria, 1, #1139 of 1839 🔗

A relative of mine works in banking and gets annoyed when people think they all get massive bonuses – most of them are on a fixed salary.

195628 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 4, #1140 of 1839 🔗

Agree – same problem with labelling and lumping together accountants, lawyers, local government officers, actors … etc and assuming they are all BAD.
. It’s falling into a trap of treating people collectively instead of individually and creates division and shouting and anger where there should be calm discourse. Within a sensible society, it’s ethical values that are critical, not labels..

195695 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 3, #1141 of 1839 🔗

Thanks for the reminder.There are decent people in every profession, even – dare I say it? – a few politicians. Though probably not Welsh ones.

195697 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, #1142 of 1839 🔗

Just a small point: You don’t pay taxes. Your gross salary is tax already. You can’t tax tax. The same system is used as the private sector just to make tax reporting easier hence the reason why it’s called tax.

195444 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 37, #1143 of 1839 🔗

I love this!

A gym in Poland has rebranded itself as a church after the government ordered pools and gyms to shut because of rising infections in the country. ‘The Church of the Healthy Body’ is offering ‘religious gatherings’ for members and will be opening a store with exercise machines which visitors can ‘test’ for a fee.

195516 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #1144 of 1839 🔗

Amazing. Love all this human ingenuity that’s springing up in the face of tyranny.

195446 Nick Rose, 1, #1145 of 1839 🔗

Ivor Cumming on the case of the “cases” in Greater Manchester

https://twitter.com/FatEmperor/status/1318186324432662528

195450 StevieH, replying to StevieH, 11, #1146 of 1839 🔗

When the Chief Druid in Cardiff made the U-Turn on masks, I thought: “what did Boris promise him?”.

Now Wales is a test case for the circuit-breaker, I am thinking: “what did Boris promise him?”.

195453 ▶▶ l835, replying to StevieH, 2, #1147 of 1839 🔗

Freedom to experiment on his own people?

195458 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #1148 of 1839 🔗

For those worried Sweden was considering a lockdown:

https://twitter.com/jblovatt/status/1318199662680133632

Contrary to media reports, Sweden has not said that it is contemplating ‘lockdowns’, but rather last week Tegnell said that the Public Health Agency would manage the spread of infection with effective measures, and that it was having a ‘dialogue’ with regional authorities.

195461 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Nick Rose, 5, #1149 of 1839 🔗

The papers love to do this but if you read the detail the measures are just being prepared, not definitely brought in, and will mainly be advice/guidance/recommendation rather than law

195462 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1150 of 1839 🔗

Michael O’Bernicia has considerable experience fighting mortgage fraud in the UK.
He has gained considerable support from the legal profession.
One firm of Barristers told him this is the most significant criminal prosecution that has ever been pursued.
https://www.henrymakow.com/2020/10/mak-devlin-covid-fraud.html

UK Column suggest one of the most useful things we can do right now is to learn Common Law.

Course starts here:
A Dissident’s Guide to the Constitution: Episode 1
 https://www.ukcolumn.org/article/dissidents-guide-constitution-episode-1

195504 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1151 of 1839 🔗

The Mark Devlin interview with Michael is worth a listen.

Michael spoke amazing confidently about what is a very technical subject, I can understand why he is taken seriously.

In the interview he was waiting to find out if a barrister who had offered to support his case would get the support of the partners in her chambers.

Michael O’Bernicia YT Channel

195474 ianric, replying to ianric, 4, #1152 of 1839 🔗

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DlrqTeWGuRXg&ved=2ahUKEwjn3fqi_sDsAhV1QEEAHWuhDvcQFjAAegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw3s0mwKA8Io97YfE3QpfhOi

In the video above it has been reported that people who didn’t get tested are reported as testing positive. Have you come across instances of this. If this is true, this begs the question if we are in the middle of a deadly pandemic, why would the government need to resort to dishonestly inflating positive test numbers from people who were not tested.

195544 ▶▶ Suitejb, replying to ianric, 4, #1153 of 1839 🔗

I’ve heard of this too. A friend of my daughters went for a test, got bored waiting and left without having a test, a couple of days later got a text saying he’d tested positive!

195550 ▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to ianric, 5, #1154 of 1839 🔗

This has been noted previously.
It’s probably just another schoolboy programming error in that that they aren’t handling the NULL case.
In other words, it is assumed that as a test has been booked it must have been carried out, and that as it doesn’t have a negative result it reports it as positive. Just more utter, mind-numbing incompetence.

195475 Basileus, replying to Basileus, 20, #1155 of 1839 🔗

I came across the following notice on a school classroom door. (my comments in italics ):

Take off your mask outside the classroom.

Use hand sanitiser or wash hands before removing mask and again after removing it. Impossible in practice. Would take ages if actually done.

Do not touch the front of the face covering or any part that has been in contact with your mouth or nose. These are children – you must be kidding.

Place all cloth face coverings in a plastic bag after removal. No, they just stuff it in their pocket.

Place single use face coverings in the bin. Or discard at roadside, more likely.

Even the folk who write this rot can’t possibly take it seriously.

195592 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Basileus, 5, #1156 of 1839 🔗

They’ve covered their backsides by writing it down. It spreads fear and/or annoyance but they don’t care about that.

195476 Crazy Times, replying to Crazy Times, 8, #1157 of 1839 🔗

Fear monger in chief is up in the HoC. Vaccine, protect the NHS, vaccine, protect the NHS, vaccine… FFS change the bloody record.

195481 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Crazy Times, 4, #1158 of 1839 🔗

Reading scripted Lies, again

195498 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #1159 of 1839 🔗

As you said, ‘ scripted ‘.

He doesn’t understand a single word of what’s he’s reading; that’s why he just makes up stuff when a member asks something ‘off-script’ – Vitamin D being a perfect example.

195479 Cecil B, 16, #1160 of 1839 🔗

It’s a cult

Only the leader is allowed to make the rules

Anyone who questions the leader is an enemy of all the cult and is a threat to the cult members

The rules become more bizarre as time goes on

Members will sacrifice everything that they have including their children if the leader says it must be so

Unfortunately most cults end in the extermination of the adherents

Having been out today and seen the masked half wits I’m not going to lose any sleep over their demise

195515 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to chris, 1, #1162 of 1839 🔗

Yes. Well done: the British spirit is still alive.

195578 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Basileus, 1, #1163 of 1839 🔗

Sure is : the ‘spirit’ that waves a white flag and joins the lemming rush on command. Or wants to be part of that command.

Sorry – but the resistance was always a minority interest. Ask the French – or any other populace that were actually put to the test.

195489 Ceriain, 4, #1164 of 1839 🔗

Interesting! Welsh deaths by date of death missing from Gov.uk figures. (see image)

195493 Cheezilla, 1, #1166 of 1839 🔗

Interesting!

Scott Morrison declared the pandemic before the WHO…

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-23/david-speers-coronavirus-border-closures-australia/12581912

195495 John P, replying to John P, 15, #1167 of 1839 🔗

Toby Young has labelled today’s edition as a “free speech special” and, as founder of the Free

Speech Union (FSU) it is something very close to his heart.

I believe, though I have yet to join the FSU, that this is one of the most important issue in Britain and the West today.

Free speech is part of the constitution of the United States. However, while many people in the UK pay lip service to it, it’s status is less certain and its parameters less clearly defined here in the UK.

Free speech is about making public your views and opinions. And as we are all of us people with different personal backgrounds and personal histories, we are all likely to have at least some subtle differences in our views and opinions.

No two people are exactly the same and no two people’s opinions are exactly the same.

Sometimes here people disagree. That doesn’t make either party right necessarily. Sometimes it’s not clear cut.

It is important sometimes just to respect the views of others and accept that you have a difference of opinion. Sometimes you just have to listen and say, “I am sorry, but I disagree.” and leave it at that.

What right do any of us have to force our views onto other people?

Just because someone has a different opinion about something that doesn’t make them bad or stupid or unreasonable. I feel I am being mobbed over the “Great Reset” theory for not believing that the lockdown is connected to it.

I feel that the so-called “Great Reset” theory is being actively promoted and pushed here by some. I don’t like the sound of it , but I do not believe that the lockdown fiasco was a pretext to usher it in.

I do not believe that “there is something else going on here”. I find that idea to be very creepy. And I am getting very very tired of seeing it repeated here.

Toby Young is not pushing it. Commenters are.

That is my opinion. I’m not going to change it for you. And I don’t care if I’m the only person on this site who does not believe that “there is something else going on here”.

You just have to accept sometimes that people disagree with you.

195500 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to John P, 9, #1168 of 1839 🔗

Exactly, I may not agree with much of what you say John P but I will respect your right to say it.

The discussions might even be enjoyable, or at least entertaining.

For the record – I think the Great Reset/New green utopia is real (too many coincidences down the years) but feel free to try and change my mind.

195562 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #1169 of 1839 🔗

As long a sI can try and change your mind that is.

it works both ways freedom of speech.

195590 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #1170 of 1839 🔗

It’s obvious to me that The Corona Project is a total scam. I am OK about if you don’t think it is. Fair enough. You are wrong. I don’t understand why you don’t think The Great Reset is relevant to the The Corona Project. It’s totally beyond me why hardly anybody thinks it’s relevant.
(that comment was for John P’s post)

195701 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Two-Six, 3, #1171 of 1839 🔗

I don’t care what crazy or strange ideas or theories people have, I enjoy reading them all even if I may not agree with them or think they are too crazy even for me.

I may even like them and start to believe in them for a while – bit like an electric monk in Dirk Gently’s Holistic Detective Agency.

All part of life’s rich tapestry.

Stops me getting bored.

195512 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to John P, 3, #1172 of 1839 🔗

John I absolutely welcome your opinion and appreciate that for you the buck stops with Boris as the leader of the Country (a fair position to hold). Personally though, after 7 months of draconian measures throughout the Western World based on pseudo science that defy all logic and completely ignore the consequential issues I am inclined towards in part the Great Reset conspiracy.

Recently, I was actually compelled towards the argument in this comments section of multiple lobby groups (risk averse scientists/ Climate change fanatics/ globalist reset agendas/ anti alcohol etc.) creating the perfect storm. I think I sit in this camp now.

195521 ▶▶ Julian, replying to John P, 9, #1173 of 1839 🔗

Free speech for me is by far the most important issue once we’ve got the coronapanic out of the way, and they are linked in many ways.

I think it’s fine for people to push whatever theory they want, I just think we need to bear in mind the audience and how best to present our case to non-sceptics

I tend to think the “great reset” stuff is not the main driver, just one of many unwelcome dark forces on the bandwagon, but I try not to get too het up about it – all of my anger is more or less used up on the PM and rest of the psychos

195542 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Julian, 5, #1174 of 1839 🔗

The Great Reset probably isn’t the main driver, Julian, (I’m part-way through listening to a podcast on the subject) but climate change has been bludgeoning its way through truth and freedom and education and our institutions for about 40 years. That’s a huge monster of an agenda, and somehow or another these things are partially connected together….together with Cultural Marxism.
I agree with you that the responsibility for lockdown lies fully upon Boris Johnson, while also recognizing that the undermining of western civilisation, by a variety of methods, has been going on since before he was born.
Question: does anyone know when Prince Charles got on board with this?

195528 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to John P, 5, #1175 of 1839 🔗

Well said John. A spectrum of opinion is invaluable and polite discussion and debate are what we should aim for.

195530 ▶▶ RickH, replying to John P, 7, #1176 of 1839 🔗

John – I think that you may be taking things too personally, although I agree with the points you are making about ‘free’ speech.

I also have reservations about getting side-tracked into discussions about linking every personal hobby-horse into this narrative – from climate change to BLM. There is a lot going on, and we will all have our explanations and perspectives. It is complex, and I reckon there are different layers and different motivations – from dim gullibility and incompetence to the influence of big money and the exercise of power.

But I think the focus has to be on ‘the knitting’ here : the distortion of facts and evidence, and the absurdity of the policies forced upon the population. Other aspects tend to water down the central task of establishing the distortion and dishonesty.

The exception to that caveat issue of free speech and censorship in relation to that narrative, which issue is part and parcel of the distortion. But it needs to be focused on the context of the Covid issue rather than getting side-tracked into ranting about petty ‘wokeness’.

195872 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RickH, 1, #1177 of 1839 🔗

Yes, I see the gobbledegook thing as a bit of an irrelevant addition to the column.

195531 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to John P, 3, #1178 of 1839 🔗

John – free speech means that in both directions. I need to be free to think what I think (without you telling me what I think) and to say what I want to say (without you telling me that I said stuff I absolutely did not say).
I’d appreciate your confirmation that you allow other people what you ask for yourself.

195543 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to John P, 4, #1179 of 1839 🔗

It is important sometimes just to respect the views of others and accept that you have a difference of opinion. Sometimes you just have to listen and say, “I am sorry, but I disagree.” and leave it at that.

The problem is though, that you don’t just leave it that. There are many posts I choose not to comment on as I disagree. You may state you disagree but keep on coming back to it and that is what raises heckles I believe.

I completely accept that you disagree with certain lines of thinking. I do not agree with many. There is no reason for it to cause you angst and I do not believe you are being mobbed. A better policy may be to ignore any GR posts.

If you state your position and reiterate it, you have to be prepared for pushback from those that disagree.

195557 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to John P, 1, #1180 of 1839 🔗

I agree with you. Made a giant pigs ear of it. That’s my opinion.

195599 ▶▶ Jenny, replying to John P, 5, #1181 of 1839 🔗

John – you are not the only person here who does not believe there is something else going on. I tend to avoid threads which talk about more sinister motives, the great reset etc. I accept I could be wrong but I tend to think stupidity, incompetence and a refusal to admit a mistake are more likely reasons for this debacle than something more malign. More than happy for others to express a different view and also more than happy to accept that they could, ultimately, be right. But you are not alone.

195623 ▶▶ James Marker, replying to John P, 4, #1182 of 1839 🔗

John, I sympathize with what you say. This site draws readers from across the political spectrum, so disagreements are bound to arise. Personally, I’m not a leftist, but I will concede that those who talk about the Great Reset have a point. The picture is complicated, though, and my reading of the situation is that there are many overlapping forces/conspiracies at work. Many of the people in the medical establishment are hostile to conservatism and will seize on any opportunity to usher in a nanny state – that is a major driver in my view.  Other people will disagree that, but whatever the political differences,  I think we can all go along with the suggestion above that the distortion of facts and evidence, and the absurdity of the policies forced upon the population, should be the main focus.

195773 ▶▶ wat tyler, replying to John P, 1, #1183 of 1839 🔗

Hi John you are right everyone is entitled to their own opinion and we need to learn to live and let live . I personally have no interest in the great reset either but i don’t understand why you want to keep debating it with them. If people want to believe it or any other stuff then just let them and engage with the people you find you have stuff in common with, because ultimately if you argue with others you have to except disagreement and take it on the chin .At the end of the day arguing over what caused all this instead of finding ways to fight our way out is time wasting,counterproductive and just what those in power want .

195777 ▶▶ matt, replying to John P, 4, #1184 of 1839 🔗

John, a few points to make. And I want to make it clear that I mean none of this as a personal attack. Please accept it as gentle constructive criticism rather than anything else.

Firstly, I have the impression you don’t really read comments here, or at least you don’t associate posts with the names of the commenters. Many here do not buy into the “Great Reset” as the story behind what’s happening – just as we didn’t buy into the Bill Gates-as-Bond-villain story before it. Several of us, me included, have argued against it several times on the daily page. To see yourself as the lone voice in the wilderness suggests to me that you’re not reading what’s going on.

Secondly, I don’t think you actually read the posts you’re replying to. You had a pretty much inexplicable go at Poppy below on this page, when she’d said nothing objectionable she responded, you ignored her. I’ve also several times seen you pick up on a few words in someone’s post and respond sharply and ignoring the context or pedantically pick on something mid-phrased in a post without taking into account the post as a whole. People do not like this and sometimes people will respond badly to it. In addition, you seem to take things personally when they don’t read to me as intended to be personal.

My impression is that you’re clever, well-informed, well-meaning and passionately invested in the anti-lockdown cause. More power to your elbow. But people here are contributing thoughts, analysis, opinions and assessment of the emerging science and I would urge you to read what they say and then think about what they’ve said before jumping in to criticise.

And, as has been said elsewhere in a reply to this thread, sometimes there are going to be threads on topics you don’t agree with. You can get stuck in if you want, but my experience tells me it’s a fools errand and you’re better to ignore and move on.

195813 ▶▶ wat tyler, replying to John P, 1, #1185 of 1839 🔗

Hey John as my comment seem to take about half an hour waiting approval i will add another .Just looked down the others comments and it would seem you’re not alone and there are lots who agree with you so come on ,chin up .

195861 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to John P, 1, #1186 of 1839 🔗

I don’t feel anyone’s views are being forced on me here. I’m free to make up my own mind.

What I love about this forum is the fact that there is discussion, for without it there is less chance of evaluating your own beliefs in the light of other viewpoints and information you may not have been privy to.

I like the way people are willing to support their arguments with links and proof. Without the informed discussion, this would just be an echo chamber instead of a mine of useful information.

The current ruthless censorship of anti-lockdown articles in social media, means that the pro-lockdown information becomes nothing short of dogma.

A clear sign of open democracy and free exchange of information is when people say “Oh, I hadn’t thought of it that way.”

195496 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 11, #1187 of 1839 🔗

Hi Wendy,

Thank you for signing our open letter.

Our letter has now been distributed worldwide and is already circulating in many languages.

Unfortunately, the link to our open letter on Facebook has been blocked in many countries or marked as fake news by fact checkers. We do not believe that a letter signed by more than 600 doctors and 2000 health professionals should be censored. We have the right to express our professional opinion and to be heard.

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Docs4openbate

I’ve just received this from the Belgian doctors’ group.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/covid-19-kills-but-so-does-lockdown

And here is a fiery denunciation of the lockdown lunacy by Professor Sikora.

So, two examples of medical professionals’ struggle to make their voices heard.

195587 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to wendyk, #1188 of 1839 🔗

This, from Sikora’s article is puzzling:

Heart attacks and strokes have dramatically reduced in number over the last six months. The only way this could have happened is that people have chosen to stay at home rather than seek medical care.

I’m sure how it reads is not what he intended to say?!

195598 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1189 of 1839 🔗

I wondered as well; I think he means that recorded hospital admissions have fallen sharply, as those afflicted suffered in their homes, too afraid to call for GP or ambulance.

The wording is ambiguous though.

195762 ▶▶▶ FenTyger, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1190 of 1839 🔗

I think it’s missing the word “reported”.

195834 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to FenTyger, 1, #1191 of 1839 🔗

I think it’s missing a few words. What’s written on their death certificates?

Or have they not died after all? Maybe not seeing cardio consultants isn’t such a bad thing.

I know the medics came extremely close to killing my DH with their excessive drug cocktail. He lived 12 months longer than predicted when I took him off the meds and treated him myself with diet and supplements.

195497 chris, replying to chris, 7, #1192 of 1839 🔗

Sean Stanhope, is being targeted by corrupt council officials in Liverpool. This has nothing to do with Public Health now it is a blatant Government crackdown on dissenters.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/save-liverpool-gyms/update/26126522/gallery/0?viewupdates=1&rcid=r01-160312182141-68d6b8692ed64519&utm_medium=email&utm_source=customer&utm_campaign=p_email%2B1137-update-supporters-v5b

195535 ▶▶ Chestergal, replying to chris, 3, #1193 of 1839 🔗

Hi Chris. It’s Wirral council not Liverpool.

195799 ▶▶▶ Polemon2, replying to Chestergal, 2, #1194 of 1839 🔗

Wirral Council have plenty to be embarrassed about without creating their own problems

195865 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to chris, 1, #1195 of 1839 🔗

And he’s ditched the ‘Bernie’ t-shirt too ! 🙂

195501 Mark, replying to Mark, 1, #1196 of 1839 🔗

Roses the unfriendly Bakers, of Sheffield:

OUR HISTORY
First established in 1940 by James Rose, we are still owned and run by the same family.

CONTACT INFO
HEAD OFFICE
J.W Rose (Bakers) Ltd
17 Atlas Way
Atlas North
Sheffield
S4 7QQ

EMAIL US
info@roses-the-bakers.com

CALL US
0114 243 4160

COMPANY INFO
Company Reg Number: 01303996
VAT Number: 308471757

195502 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Mark, 4, #1197 of 1839 🔗

No mask no service

195506 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Mark, 8, #1198 of 1839 🔗

Illegal surely?

195514 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to wendyk, 6, #1199 of 1839 🔗

All too common these days.

195510 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Mark, 9, #1200 of 1839 🔗

soon to be No Business?

195523 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Dan Clarke, 15, #1201 of 1839 🔗

Used to be my regular, but we’ve just ordered a breadmaker as a result of this, so won’t be going there again. In fairness they did serve me without a mask and I pointed out that their sign is likely illegal but they just said “orders from head office”. So that’s another business I won;t be frequenting any more.

195627 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lyra Silvertongue, replying to Mark, 6, #1202 of 1839 🔗

You won’t regret the breadmaker, and with luck it’ll be a gateway drug to hand baking further down the line. Either way you’ll wonder why you put up with commercial crap for so long.

195689 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Lyra Silvertongue, 5, #1203 of 1839 🔗

We had a breadmaker back in the 1990s when the children were young, and it was great, but somehow never got around to replacing it after a house fire. Looking forward to seeing how much the engineering has advanced in 20-odd years, tbh.

At the moment, one less shop to go into is a result in itself. Shopping was always a tedious chore as far as I’m concerned, but with all the masked morons and the stupid rules it has become positively unpleasant in the New Normal.

196129 ▶▶▶▶▶ DomW, replying to Mark, #1204 of 1839 🔗

Following orders which break the law…

Another one to put on the Nuremberg list 🙂

195969 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Mark, 1, #1205 of 1839 🔗

Boycott!!

Looks like another one with a death wish.

195503 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 20, #1206 of 1839 🔗

Wow! Just got off the phone with someone more furious about lockdowns than me!

I directed her to this site.

The more you tighten your grip, Drakeford, the more voters will slip through your fingers.”

195831 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #1207 of 1839 🔗

Whither will they slip? For whom can they vote?

195505 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 20, #1208 of 1839 🔗

Hancock really looks like he was born to be health secretary for Covid, the lies and the drama drip out of him, like he’s been lying all his life, waiting for this time. The enthusiasm from a man who is causing the deaths of thousands of cancer, heart disease, dementia, patients, is a sight

195529 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Dan Clarke, 11, #1209 of 1839 🔗

As my mother, who worked with the elderly would say, very unpleasant old people were once very unpleasant young people. Similarly, those who are less than truthful in older age were likely less than truthful in younger age. There will be skeletons in his cupboard.

195832 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1210 of 1839 🔗

There might also be living beings in his cupboard …

195558 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Dan Clarke, 6, #1211 of 1839 🔗

He married into the aristocracy and his wife’s family has links to serving the Queen so he’s got a jumped up sense of his own self-importance.

195653 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #1212 of 1839 🔗

Hmm, cunt is more descriptive

195604 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #1213 of 1839 🔗

Shameless Shuttlecock

195859 ▶▶ peter, replying to Dan Clarke, #1214 of 1839 🔗

One can only assume he was anally raped every day by the alphas at Oxford and this is his revenge.

196119 ▶▶ DomW, replying to Dan Clarke, #1215 of 1839 🔗

There is clearly something very wrong with him.

195507 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 41, #1216 of 1839 🔗

From Save Our Rights UK fb group:

I just got challenged at the school gate for not wearing a mask. Apparently from today it’s the rules.
 I said “nope! I don’t wear one and I won’t be doing. I’m not psychologically damaging my child any further. She’ll be coming out with her mummy greeting her with a big smile and a hug.”
“Are you exempt?”
“You know as well as I do that there’s no real medical exemption certificate, because it’s not the law.”
“But are you exempt?”
“No, but if you want me to bring a lanyard I’ll show you that when I pick her up later, if it makes you feel better?”
“No, no, no, that’s fine. If you tell me you’re exempt, that’s enough.”
I rolled my eyes and opened my arms in a “whatever” kind of pose, and said
“Okay. I’m exempt!”
“Okay, that’s fine, thank you!”
Bearing in mind that the school is quite a well to do, typical village school. Every parent was masked, but me. A lady behind me heard me and pulled her mask off, and said “maybe I should grow a pair like you. I don’t agree with it in the open air.”

195660 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #1217 of 1839 🔗

Are these people counting all the ‘exemptions’??

Serious question.

195938 ▶▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to stefarm, 2, #1218 of 1839 🔗

Another serious question…can you be exempt from a law that doesn’t actually exist?! As far as I’m aware there’s no Legal requirement to wear masks on the school run is there?

195964 ▶▶ Suburbian, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1219 of 1839 🔗

I raised this to my local authority as there is no government guidance to wear masks outdoors. After a few weeks back and forth the head teacher grudgingly sent a message saying that they were optional. We are in tory heartland here so I’m sure the LA pushed back on the teacher. But highly suggest putting up the fight…

195508 calchas, replying to calchas, 10, #1220 of 1839 🔗

My prediction for when a correct analysis comes to be done:

Total mortality – deaths caused by lockdown – deaths caused by use of ventilators

= normal mortality.

195536 ▶▶ JudgeMental, replying to calchas, 6, #1221 of 1839 🔗

I agree. This year will be a bit higher because they caused so many more deaths by shutting down the NHS. In Sweden this year is predicted to be normal. You wouldn’t know there was a “deadly pandemic“ by looking at the charts https://softwaredevelopmentperestroika.wordpress.com/

195538 ▶▶ Van Allen, replying to calchas, 7, #1222 of 1839 🔗

I agree. The thing is lockdown are not designed to save lives only push deaths into the future. There is no evidence that they have saved a single life. On the other hand, the restrictions have already caused the loss of many lives both directly and indirectly including those caused by missed treatments and suicides. The future is even more bleak from the missed diagnoses, the mental health problems caused and the upcoming financial collapse. So worrying how Hancock seems to relish his part.

195552 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Van Allen, 3, #1223 of 1839 🔗

The only way that I can see that lockdowns save lives is
1) Postpone deaths until an effective vaccine is found – v high risk
2) Postpone deaths until an effective treatment is found – v high risk
3) Smooth deaths to save lives of non-covid patients denied treatment because hospitals are overwhelmed
4) Postpone deaths until a super effective track and trace enables you to suppress the virus

(1) and (2) might be worth a shot if you’re dealing with an extraordinarily dangerous disease, which we’re not
(3) lockdowns as executed have had the opposite effect – by keeping sick people who might be helped away from hospital, they have increased deaths
(4) isn’t realistic once the virus is out there

I’ve not seen anyone who has been able to argue against the above properly

195571 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 4, #1224 of 1839 🔗

Julian – I doubt that you can ‘see’ any way that lockdown saves lives now that the votes are in.

The concept is pure bullshit, and observably so.

195724 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to RickH, 4, #1225 of 1839 🔗

i think Julian is putting forward a hypothesis of how lockdowns can work and is then destroying it .

195757 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to mjr, 2, #1226 of 1839 🔗

Indeed. What baffles me is why it didn’t occur to more people, sooner. To be fair to Ferguson, he pretty much said we’d need them ad infinitum, but no-one was paying attention. I kept telling friends and acquaintances it would be forever and they shut down and mumbled.

Madness is frightening close up.

It’s conceivable that a virus so deadly that some kind of lockdown would be appropriate (worth a shot at least) might arrive one day, but this isn’t it, and IMO was not even “it” if you believed Ferguson’s prediction.

195820 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, 1, #1227 of 1839 🔗

Giesecke warned us that it’s very easy to lockdown and very difficult to unlock again.

195568 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Van Allen, 6, #1228 of 1839 🔗

I had arrived at the conclusion that Starmer was a fake a while ago, so, finding absolutely no credible candidate, this was the first Labour leadership election in which I didn’t vote.

But, after his slavish kow-towing to pressure from the Israel Lobby in order to curry establishment favour and throwing colleagues under the bus, he has surpassed himself in allowing Mr Toad and Co. to get away with allowing the fatalities from inept policies over a moderate virus. 350,000 delayed cancer examinations? Massive rise deaths from heart attacks at home? Increase in prostate cancer deaths?

… and all he preaches is more of the same.

195688 ▶▶▶ muzzle, replying to Van Allen, 2, #1229 of 1839 🔗

I can say with some certainty that we are all going to die.

195509 Quernus, replying to Quernus, 20, #1230 of 1839 🔗

Latest update from the Liverpool gym owner who is crowd-funding to stay open against the Tier 3 lockdown. He has a recording of an Environmental Health meeting this morning in which they basically confirmed they were out to sabotage his efforts to keep the gym open.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=150&v=4zXoa8nemqc&feature=emb_logo

195527 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Quernus, 7, #1231 of 1839 🔗

Good for him.

195534 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Quernus, 7, #1232 of 1839 🔗
195556 ▶▶ maggie may, replying to Quernus, 6, #1233 of 1839 🔗

Oh great, someone has put this up already, I was about to! totally shocking what’s going on for this guy, so glad for him that he has lots of strong support because it must be a complete nightmare.

195829 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Quernus, 2, #1234 of 1839 🔗

The names of the Environmental Health Officers involved are now a matter or record. Can’t be bad.

195517 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 20, #1235 of 1839 🔗

Matt Hancock, a disgrace to humanity

195595 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Dan Clarke, 7, #1236 of 1839 🔗

Are you going for most voted?

195683 ▶▶ annie, replying to Dan Clarke, 9, #1237 of 1839 🔗

He’d be a disgrace to amoebas.

195525 calchas, replying to calchas, 16, #1238 of 1839 🔗

Ironically one way to bring this nonsense to an end would be to take it entirely seriously and to pretend that there is a serious epidemic taking place.

If all people were to stay at home, refuse to send their children to school, refuse to use public transport, refuse to enter shops, restaurants or any place where they would actually meet people then:

End of the economy and of the resources to support Event Covid in 5, 4. 3, …

Ironically the authorities rely on us not entirely acting according to pronouncements.

195549 ▶▶ Bea, replying to calchas, 4, #1239 of 1839 🔗

Hi calchas. I’ve been thinking along these lines too eg starting a hysterical local campaign for the council to provide hazardous waste bins for the toxic, discarded masks terrorising our roads and parks.

195680 ▶▶ annie, replying to calchas, 1, #1240 of 1839 🔗

You’ve described exactly what Josef Stalin Dripfeed is forcing the Welsh people to do.
Bad idea.

195537 Cecil B, 5, #1241 of 1839 🔗

I can see where Drakefords’s rapist son gets his attitudes towards other people

195540 Mabel Cow, replying to Mabel Cow, 21, #1242 of 1839 🔗

St John Ambulance now suggests the most effective way to provide CPR is to attempt to suffocate the patient ( see step 2 ) during the process.

Thanks to UK Column News for this gem.

195551 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Mabel Cow, 4, #1243 of 1839 🔗

Yes – absolutelty f.ing loopy.

195553 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Mabel Cow, 7, #1244 of 1839 🔗

The first aid training providers were ordered by HSE and PHE to recommend this months ago.

I was on a 1st aid refresher in June and it was being taught then – against the wishes of the instructor and training school but they had “orders”.

When asked if we would follow these instructions or risk covid to say your mates the answer was “covid is a lot of shot, we’ll do it the old way”.

195554 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Mabel Cow, 6, #1245 of 1839 🔗

Amazing. They should be shut down – that is murder

196001 ▶▶▶ Ken Turner, replying to Victoria, #1246 of 1839 🔗

Compression only CPR has been documented for a couple of years – was introduced as people appeared reluctant to do full CPR – compression only was deemed useful in the first few minutes.
The Resuscitation Council do go for evidence based medicine – the evidence isn’t only from the UK as there are periodic international conferences every few years to review the processes in the light of new evidence presented – a lot of countries have an equivalent to the council to produce local standards and perhaps look at research (e.g. a few years ago they were looking at the effect of adrenaline in CPR – there was some question as to whether this added anything to the process and they looked to evidence from arrests to investigate further.

195561 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Mabel Cow, 4, #1247 of 1839 🔗

Insane innit….

195569 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Mabel Cow, #1248 of 1839 🔗

Interestingly, WebMD says that CPR outside of hospital only has a 12% survival rate.

I couldn’t verify the 12% because the paper being cited is pay-to-play and doesn’t mention the source of the 12% figure in the free-to-read summary.

195716 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Mabel Cow, 3, #1249 of 1839 🔗

12% is a little high, it’s closer to 5% with CPR only. It increases with early defibrillation, in a shockable rhythm.

196004 ▶▶▶▶ Ken Turner, replying to p02099003, #1250 of 1839 🔗

Resuscitation Council FAQ page says rate is less than 10% outside hospital. If the “chain of survival” works, apparently can be over 50% – but the interesting figure I couldn’t find this evening is how many survive to leave hospital

195593 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Mabel Cow, #1251 of 1839 🔗

I saw that earlier – just mad!!! And murderous.

195804 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mabel Cow, 3, #1252 of 1839 🔗

Son suggested they just use a pillow.

195809 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1253 of 1839 🔗

Son suggested they just use a pillow.

I shouldn’t, but I’m LMAO! Brilliant!

195975 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, #1254 of 1839 🔗

Othello managed fine with one.

195922 ▶▶ Ken Turner, replying to Mabel Cow, #1255 of 1839 🔗

Advice is from the Resuscitation Council who set standards for CPR – both for the public and for health care professionals https://www.resus.org.uk/watch

195974 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Ken Turner, #1256 of 1839 🔗

‘Resuscitation’ Council, like Ministry of Love?

195548 Smelly Melly, 4, #1257 of 1839 🔗

If slaves to the rules are hero’s, then sceptics must be super duper hero’s.

195560 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 16, #1258 of 1839 🔗

My niece has just emailed with the latest piece of restaurant -related craziness : pepper pots must be requested by diners as their presence on tables is deemed to be too risky.

Corona- cruets! Who’d have guessed!

195570 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to wendyk, 18, #1259 of 1839 🔗

Well pepper is a ticking time bomb isn’t it? Just one sneeze and all grannies within a 100 metre radius will die.

195581 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Achilles, 6, #1260 of 1839 🔗

Pepperocide!

Piper nigrum will shortly be added to the list of Controlled Substances and advice on usage for vulnerable groups will be provided.

195597 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to wendyk, 4, #1261 of 1839 🔗

nigrum? It will be wokely banned!

195702 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1262 of 1839 🔗

should be “pepper of colour”

195664 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to wendyk, 4, #1263 of 1839 🔗

But salt shakers are fine?

195796 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Poppy, 3, #1264 of 1839 🔗

White supremacy!

195679 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to wendyk, 6, #1265 of 1839 🔗

Too many people have cap-sicumbed to this dreadful afflication already.

195823 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #1266 of 1839 🔗

<< passes coat >>

195563 Polemon2, replying to Polemon2, 11, #1267 of 1839 🔗

An appeal to all posting screenshots of graphs and statistics.
PLEASE include weblinks of where the data comes from. Anyone can draw a graph or tabulate numbers.

195755 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Polemon2, #1268 of 1839 🔗

Not sure Matt Hancock could!

195564 TheBluePill, replying to TheBluePill, 24, #1269 of 1839 🔗

From the BBC:

“Twitter has removed a tweet by one of President Donald Trump’s aides, which falsely claimed that masks do not protect against coronavirus. The company said that Scott Atlas’s post – which read: “Masks work? NO.” – violated its policies on coronavirus misinformation”

This is totally out of hand now. This article text is a lie in itself by declaring that it is false to say that muzzles are useless. This propaganda has clearly been ramped up another gear. They have no shame telling flat-out lies as they have got away with it with complete impunity so far.

195566 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to TheBluePill, 10, #1270 of 1839 🔗

I think I’m going to have to send my first ever complaint to the BBC complaints shredder department.

195588 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to TheBluePill, 1, #1271 of 1839 🔗

I think that complaints office must look a bit like the Carlsberg one – not for the same reason obviously.

195758 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to TheBluePill, 3, #1272 of 1839 🔗

Go and complain in person. The Complaints Shredder Department is right next to the Memory Hole Unit. You can’t miss it. Just look out for the gold-plated Jimmy Savile statute then go a little further on past the Emily Maitlis make up warehouse. It’s under a big sign saying:”WE GOT IT ABOUT RIGHT”.

195586 ▶▶ RickH, replying to TheBluePill, 5, #1273 of 1839 🔗

Agreed – we are now into the area of egregious lying rather than simple bias and distortion.

195565 Emily Tock, replying to Emily Tock, 2, #1274 of 1839 🔗

Progress in Irelan. Someone posted this on a daily dose of Irish Times fear porn: https://covid19ireland.squarespace.com/

195606 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Emily Tock, #1275 of 1839 🔗

Info looks good. Front page not good. Took a while to locate the articles!

195567 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 9, #1276 of 1839 🔗

From one of those strange websites I find now and again which mooching with a VPN on (today browsing from Japan), private browsing on, all security settings on, tracking and history off as they don’t appear otherwise:

“sources say serious moves behind the scenes are aiming to replace key world leaders in November.

The sources say in each case the replacement may take the form of a new body double reading a new script or may involve an entirely different public figure.

XXX sources say:

“There is a growing consensus the British Prime Minister has failed and must go. We had a comment last night from someone we listen to very carefully.”

Let’s see what happens in a few weeks shall we and see if the narrative changes.

195625 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #1277 of 1839 🔗

I would love to see the search terms to find that! Loving your work but pity anyone who has to be Boris’s body double.

195698 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Sarigan, 4, #1278 of 1839 🔗

winnie the pooh replaces Xi Jinping
Dobbie the house elf replaces Putin
and Fozzy Bear replaces Johnson

195966 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to mjr, #1279 of 1839 🔗

We’d only notice because the second version is so much nicer and brighter than the first.

195884 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Sarigan, #1280 of 1839 🔗

Reminds me of the film Dave. Will Carrie notice the switch?

195648 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1281 of 1839 🔗

I Was Wiffle Wuffle Waffle Boris’s Bish Bash Bosh Double Wouble Trouble

Think I’ll give that film a miss.

195722 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1282 of 1839 🔗

So while Johnson has made a mess, we might get someone who is a real dictator?

195819 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #1283 of 1839 🔗

I can handle it if he is honest and says “I’m doing it because I’m a bigger, harder, tougher, crazier, nastier bastard then you, fight me if you don’t like it” but this bullshit “to save granny and for your own good”?

Not a chance.

195573 maggie may, replying to maggie may, 14, #1284 of 1839 🔗

Just to say had a bit of a ‘discussion’ with my neighbour this afternoon, telling her about the suicides i wrote about earlier.
She: Well a lot of people are dying from Covid and i’m really worried about long Covid too.
Me: Do you know anyone who has long Covid?
She: No, but i’ve heard stories (from the BBC i expect), someone who lost her sense of smell and taste, and another who lost the hearing in one ear and sight in one eye. Doctors say they’re irreversible.
Me: Well, medical advances being what they are, they may be able to fix it in a 5 or 10 years time.
She: 10 years seem long to me.
Me: Well suicide is even longer…
She didn’t say any more. I shouldn’t be surprised, she’s a Guardian reader i think. But i will have to be more diplomatic, they’re a nice couple and i don’t want to fall out with them!

195584 ▶▶ CGL, replying to maggie may, 15, #1285 of 1839 🔗

It is unbelievable isn’t it – you’d think that the fact that somebody has felt so hopeless about this that they have even considered taking their life over it would shake them up a bit. But they don’t seem to care. And yet we are the selfish ones aren’t we.
We are in the side of humanity – they aren’t thinking about the world beyond their garden fence.
I hope she thinks long and hard about what you have said.

195608 ▶▶▶ maggie may, replying to CGL, 19, #1286 of 1839 🔗

The bit about us being the selfish and callous really gets me. I often wonder how much time the people who say that have ever spent with very elderly people. I looked after both my parents, my dad for his last 6 months, my mum for her last few years (both in their late 80s)

My dad was longing to die, he absolutely hated being such a shadow of his former self. Mum had dementia and didn’t always recognise me, she had no quality of life at all.

Before the lockdown i was visiting 2 local care homes on a regular basis as a volunteer for a local charity (we sang with the residents). There were some who could have a conversation with you and chatted happily but many who had dementia, were physically incapable, had little quality of life. How many of us would really be content living like that and would prefer to be carried off by something like Covid?

195639 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to maggie may, 2, #1287 of 1839 🔗

I’ve thought that a lot recently.
I hope I don’t put my family through that!

195677 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to maggie may, 6, #1288 of 1839 🔗

I’ve learned that trying to engage these people in reasoned discussion is counterproductive and you will almost always be debating from a position of reduced power. However, fighting fire with fire and calling zealots unethical, murderous, callous scumbags will serve to pique their interest in what you have to say.

195621 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to maggie may, 8, #1289 of 1839 🔗

No more niceties this is too important

Next time you see her say ‘I’ve thought carefully about what you said and will you please go fuck yourself’

195912 ▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to Cecil B, #1290 of 1839 🔗

I love you, Cecil B

195687 ▶▶ Julian, replying to maggie may, 8, #1291 of 1839 🔗

OK, so she wants unprecedented destruction of normal life, indefinitely, because of some anecdotes about “long covid” that are meaningless without a definition of what it means, how prevalent it is and how it compares to other post-viral issues?

“A lot of people are dying from covid” Depends what you mean by “a lot”. But by any rational definition that would justify turning life upside down, it’s not “a lot”.

195707 ▶▶▶ Proudtobeapeasant, replying to Julian, 6, #1292 of 1839 🔗

My daughter’s friend, a nurse, has long covid, and I do feel sorry for her, but like you I think to myself – how does it compare to other post-viral issues? You never hear about that. I also know that she is overweight….

195694 ▶▶ Proudtobeapeasant, replying to maggie may, 2, #1293 of 1839 🔗

I too had a discussion with my neighbour last night, on returning from a walk. I had spoken to him a couple of months ago or so and had come away feeling angry, but like you not wanting to fall out with him. His opinion then seemed to be that people were getting sloppy about social distancing etc., and complained that there were no longer one way systems in shops (not all the shops had/have them anyway). But last night I got the impression that he was fed up with lockdown and he said “there’s bound to be another strain” – meaning of corona virus, just like there is of flu.

195791 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, #1294 of 1839 🔗

Obviously the cogs are at least turning re the rushed vaccine.

195574 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 8, #1295 of 1839 🔗

You just cannot disregard T-cells immunity and believe that low serological levels indicate the absolute maximum spread of infection like SAGE’s 7 % of UK population.Many which have lost antibodies were only mildly infected and could they not be immune?

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.15.341958v1?rss=1%22
Early induction of SARS-CoV-2 specific T cells associates with rapid viral clearance and mild disease in COVID-19 patients
 “We observed that while rapid induction and quantity of humoral responses were associated with increased disease severity, an early induction of SARS-CoV-2 specific T cells was present in patients with mild disease and accelerated viral clearance. These findings provide further support for a protective role of SARS-CoV-2 specific T cells over antibodies during SARS-CoV-2 infection with important implications in vaccine design and immune-monitoring.

195577 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to swedenborg, 7, #1296 of 1839 🔗

Rapid clearance means the window of infectiousness would be smaller. People staying at home when ill would probably be enough to prevent them passing it on.

I wonder why we’ve never done that before in the past…

195699 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1297 of 1839 🔗

Most viral infections are handled by the T cells, very rarely are antibodies created. Most viral infections are asymptomatic and people don’t realise they have had a viral infection.

195822 ▶▶ guy153, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1298 of 1839 🔗

The 7% is certainly an undercount for various reasons. But all of the patients in this particular study would have tested positive for antibodies.

What is interesting is that there is a very similar pattern to SARS1: too many antibodies too soon seems to be a problem. This has important consequences for vaccine design. SARS1 vaccines “enhanced” the disease by predisposing monkeys (they never got as far as trying it on humans) to this pattern of lots of antibodies too soon. This is why vaccines that also stimulate a strong T-cell response are hoped to be better.

Most of the T-cells they found were CD4+. The job of these T-cells is mostly not to kill infected cells directly (those are more the CD8+ ones) but to help the body produce antibodies, especially highly targeted antibodies. But they have other side-effects in terms of cytokines and signalling that are possibly more important.

Figure 2B is a good illustration of what seems to have happened. The guy who died made loads of antibodies early, and there was nothing apparently wrong with them– they were able to neutralize the virus. The other patients who had severe disease also had high antibody levels.

Although none of the monkeys they tried various different SARS2 vaccines on had enhanced disease, I still find this study quite concerning from the point of view of vaccines, as it shows that SARS2 is behaving in a similar way.

196140 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to guy153, #1299 of 1839 🔗

Correction: I said they would have all tested positive for antibodies. Actually there was one of them who didn’t seem to have any (he got better).

195575 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #1300 of 1839 🔗

A short film on Sweden. One very important message coming out of this is that there is more than one way to protect people:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qNfowAlwrY&feature=youtu.be

195665 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #1301 of 1839 🔗

It’s obvious that the Swedish people weren’t subjected to 24-hour fear-porn!

195753 ▶▶▶ Marialta, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1302 of 1839 🔗

I’m confused-

On the one hand in Sweden everyone has ID cards and it leads the way in biosecurity – e.g. in 2015 they introduced biometric microchips to enable collection of train fares.

On the other they have the common sense approach of Anders Tegnell to deal with this Covid situation. Many here are concerned that we’re heading for a new global order in which our lives will be controlled by our immunity status (eg the Health passports being trialled this week) ….. so how does this square with Sweden’s light approach to the current pandemic?

195783 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Marialta, 3, #1303 of 1839 🔗

Maybe if the Swedes are already microchipped, there was no pressure to do the draconian stuff that’s designed to create compliance in the other countries.

195807 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Marialta, 1, #1304 of 1839 🔗

Swedish Constitution says that the Health boss cannot be overruled by the politicians. They were lucky they had an honourable competent man in that post. 🙂

195846 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to JohnB, 1, #1305 of 1839 🔗

Plus their laws only allow localised quarantines.

195576 JHuntz, replying to JHuntz, 1, #1306 of 1839 🔗

I often hear that Asian Countries have done better because of effective track and trace systems and strict mask wearing and whilst I am inclined not to agree I am struggling to find an argument to support my position.

One thing I thought I recalled reading was the idea that COVID was never actually novel and Asian countries may have had prior immunity due to the SARS virus. However, when I search google and duckduckgo I can’t find any evidence. Am I making this up or can anyone provide a source?

Are there any other more obvious arguments to be made against this narrative?

195583 ▶▶ jb12, replying to JHuntz, 1, #1307 of 1839 🔗

I don’t mean to be too critical. but if you can’t evidence of something, doesn’t that suggest that you shouldn’t be proposing it? I would say that deciding on a conclusion and making the evidence fit is exactly what most sceptics would accuse the government and its advisers of doing.

195594 ▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to jb12, 2, #1308 of 1839 🔗

You are absolutely right. I guess what i’m saying is without counter evidence the case can be made that track and trace and mask wearing is the answer to dealing with viruses.

195609 ▶▶▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to JHuntz, 3, #1309 of 1839 🔗

That assumes correlation is causation.

Why is Belgium so different from Germany? Both are rule followers, yet vastly different outcomes.

Peru had the strictest lockdown in the world, masks, the lot. Total disaster.

Chance has rather more to do with it than many wish to admit.

195616 ▶▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to JHuntz, 2, #1310 of 1839 🔗

So many variables that make any specific measure or containment attempt comparison fairly meaningless. Some factors other than masks and T&T could be. Humidity, population density, death statistic recording measurement, case recording, age of population, strain of Virus, social distancing adherence, previous exposure to SARS, vaccination for other illnesses, Vitamin D. All of those actually are more likely to have had an impact than face nappies or track and trace.

Europe is fairly small, is the most densely populated part of the planet and has zero central disease control methodology.

That’s why it was always going to be impossible to control this thing across the continent. Look at U.K. we can’t even control the regions of England.

195646 ▶▶▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Leemc23, #1311 of 1839 🔗

Thanks, that’s a lot of factors I hadn’t necessarily considered.

195703 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to JHuntz, 7, #1312 of 1839 🔗

Er no. Are you having us on? How would masks protect you? I was out and about shopping virtually every day during the height of the Covid outbreak. Not once did anyone sneeze
in my sight or hearing in the store. And never saw people doing open mouthed coughing.

Masks could only have s marginal protective effect but they encouraging finger to face contact and they are injurious to health in themselves.

Track and trace only works well where you have established civil defence networks, a homogenous population speaking one language, s culture of obedience to the state and no illegal migrants.

195805 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to JHuntz, #1313 of 1839 🔗

I don’t think that’s the case at all. If someone is proposing a novel, untried intervention with obvious economic, health and societal costs (mass testing using a dubious test, wearing masks) – interventions NOT recommended previously by the WHO – then the burden of proof is on them to show that they are on balance helpful.

195613 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to jb12, 2, #1314 of 1839 🔗

I don’t think there’s any study that has given an answer, or even looked into it. I’ve seen all sorts of theories, credible in varying degrees, none provable. The only evidence based answer at the moment is “don’t know.” I doubt we’ll ever really know.

195645 ▶▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to matt, 1, #1315 of 1839 🔗

I think you could well be right that we will never know it’s just frustrating when the media (without conclusive evidence) pushes a certain agenda as the only answer.

195681 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to JHuntz, 2, #1316 of 1839 🔗

Yes. Because it suits their agenda and no one can properly gainsay it.

195585 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to JHuntz, 3, #1317 of 1839 🔗

If they were never going to be hit hard by the virus then of course T&T would appear to work well for them.

There’s a similar argument regarding lockdowns. If only 1 person in a country was infected and you locked down the whole country then you could claim that lockdown was the reason for controlling the virus. Or you could have just isolated that one individual without a lockdown. The result is the same although the cost is very different.

195603 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to JHuntz, 3, #1318 of 1839 🔗

Perhaps asian countries have done well because quite a few of them are communist dictatorships.

Is that where people in the UK want to go?

195649 ▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Lucan Grey, #1319 of 1839 🔗

To be fair the likes of South Korea and Japan look alright these days…

195788 ▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to JHuntz, 1, #1320 of 1839 🔗

Japan is an interesting one. As I understand it they cannot enforce any lockdowns there as it’s against the constitution.

195612 ▶▶ JudgeMental, replying to JHuntz, 3, #1321 of 1839 🔗

I believe it must be existing immunity or genetics. I’m in Thailand and we had over a million Chinese tourists in January to March while Covid was happening in China. They didn’t lock down until late March and there wasn’t widespread mask usage until then. I’m pretty sure I caught the Rona in January.

195654 ▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to JudgeMental, 2, #1322 of 1839 🔗

I didn’t realise that 1 million Chinese tourists had entered Thailand during coviid as every article on Thailand waxes lyrical about their hard lockdown and their care for the elderly. What is it like on the ground in Thailand considering they seem to have wrecked the tourist economy?

195696 ▶▶▶▶ JudgeMental, replying to JHuntz, 2, #1323 of 1839 🔗

The lockdown wasn’t really hard. Apart from when they banned alcohol sales for a month. That was hard for some people! The tourist scene here is really suffering hard. They were depending on travel to open up by the end of the year but that looks very unlikely now. I expect China will buy a lot of the hotels that go bankrupt. Bars and restaurants that only catered to the westerners will mostly disappear.

195704 ▶▶▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to JudgeMental, 2, #1324 of 1839 🔗

That’s a shame. It must be hard on the locals who relied on tourism.

195618 ▶▶ RickH, replying to JHuntz, 3, #1325 of 1839 🔗

It’s fairly certain that population age profile, humidity + strength of previous infection season (inverse) are important variables. Imposed superficial measures aren’t.

195626 ▶▶ NickR, replying to JHuntz, 3, #1326 of 1839 🔗

Someone posted this link yesterday, https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/influenza-pneumonia/by-country/ which shows that Japan, amongst other Asian countries have higher Flu/pneumonia rates than the UK, but that doesn’t tell you much, you need a time series data set. That said, it’s very interesting for all sorts of other things.
One of the issues about getting acceptance of cross immunisation is that it means you have to accept the T cell theory, & the SAGE brigade don’t like that. The Mike Yeadon piece, was it on the 16th? covered this stuff a bit.

195658 ▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to NickR, 2, #1327 of 1839 🔗

I might look back and read that Mike Yeadon piece again. Thanks!

195670 ▶▶▶▶ Proudtobeapeasant, replying to JHuntz, 4, #1328 of 1839 🔗

I read that and despite being someone who was hopeless at science of any kind at school I could understand it!

195798 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to NickR, 1, #1329 of 1839 🔗

Apparently there’s a genetic predisposition in people from Japan that makes them more susceptible to influenza viruses.
”Normally, the protein made from the IFITM3 gene interferes with how the influenza virus enters cells, though precisely how is not yet understood. (We know that this same gene is used by animals, as mice genetically modified to lack the gene are more susceptible to flu infection.) And people who have a non-functional version of this gene simply lack this component of our immune defence against the virus. In 2012, the non-functional form of this gene was found to be especially common in people hospitalised by an influenza infection. Those in intensive care were seventeen times more likely to have the defective gene. Variations of this gene are also particularly common in Japanese and Chinese people. Because of this, Japanese and Chinese people may be at higher risk for developing severe illness from flu, but this remains to be tested directly.”

— The Beautiful Cure: The New Science of Human Health by Daniel M Davis

195631 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to JHuntz, 3, #1330 of 1839 🔗

Even though they are said to do effective Test Track they are doing overall very few tests. In the league of testing per million, Taiwan 182 Vietnam 163 Thailand 159 Japan 152 SK 122. They are not doing mass testing of population. They might not actively search for infection? Could many cases be hidden in their flu statistics? Japan with very few tests, still has almost 40 % seropositive in Tokyo. It is possible of widespread of C-19 but if not connected to much deaths or grave morbidity might be undetected (perhaps by choice in touristic Thailand and Vietnam?)

195638 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1331 of 1839 🔗

Prior immunity due to SARS-CoV1?

195779 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1332 of 1839 🔗

If they’re not doing mass testing, they’re not creating an epidemic of false positives and herd immunity will be developing very nicely.

195672 ▶▶ guy153, replying to JHuntz, 5, #1333 of 1839 🔗

One thing we do know about Japan is plenty of people test positive for antibodies. So they had the epidemic the same as everywhere else in spite of their long tradition of occasionally wearing masks and not hugging each other much. Why did so few of them die? The first place I would look is at how they are counting the deaths. Then at how they managed their care homes and hospitals.

There may indeed also be an element of greater immunity because of SARS1 but I don’t know of any actual evidence for this.

195676 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to guy153, 4, #1334 of 1839 🔗

Less obesity among elders

195678 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to JHuntz, 4, #1335 of 1839 🔗

If masks worked, China and Japan wouldn’t have flu. But they do and China is the source of many flu viruses.

None of the major Asian countries had a full
national lockdown – so it’s clear their success has nothing to do with lockdowns, either.

Cross immunity seems highly plausible and I recall seeing references to it here – scientific papers being cited and so on.

Another factor might be that people in East Asia seem less prone to obesity.

195986 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to OKUK, #1336 of 1839 🔗

The likes of Japan and Hong Kong don’t have multi-generational households either due to lack of space and expensive housing.

195682 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to JHuntz, 6, #1337 of 1839 🔗

Most Asians I work withs ay they wear masks for pollution reasons when in the city, not for stopping viruses etc.

195580 NickR, replying to NickR, #1338 of 1839 🔗

Positive Tests in 4 inner London Boroughs. They’re looking very much like the Northern University cities, looking like they’re plateauing.

195624 ▶▶ RickH, replying to NickR, 5, #1339 of 1839 🔗

… and again, on stage …. THE TESTDEMIC!!!

195589 Cheezilla, #1340 of 1839 🔗

.

195596 Cheezilla, 17, #1341 of 1839 🔗

Philosophical

195600 Steve, replying to Steve, 11, #1342 of 1839 🔗

Just remember, Boris said no national lockdown. Instead we have local lockdowns, which now all seem to be headed to teir 3, so in effect we have a national lockdown. Just don’t call it that, ok?

195630 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Steve, 4, #1343 of 1839 🔗

… and people will continue lapping up the Boris sick without complaint.

195601 Lucan Grey, replying to Lucan Grey, 3, #1344 of 1839 🔗

Nope, still can’t see the excess deaths in the UK

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/#z-scores-by-country

195607 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Lucan Grey, 8, #1345 of 1839 🔗

Just wait….two more weeks….

195611 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Two-Six, 10, #1346 of 1839 🔗

Two more weeks until we have to wait two more weeks?

195615 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Sarigan, 3, #1347 of 1839 🔗

Yes, and after that the waiting will nearly be over. But not quite.

195617 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Lucan Grey, 9, #1348 of 1839 🔗

Hidden Covid – the silent sibling of Long Covid

195643 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Lucan Grey, 1, #1349 of 1839 🔗

Malcolm Kendrick discussed the Euromomo numbers in his chat with Zac Cox. He said because it uses nothing but raw death figures, you don’t need anything else to tell you that the epidemic was completely over by weeks 19/20 of 2020. Interview is long, but very informative.

https://brandnewtube.com/watch/dr-zac-uncensored-with-dr-malcolm-kendrick-live_W2EGf2HuoMorJVI.html

195663 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Lucan Grey, 1, #1350 of 1839 🔗

Forget the ‘excess’ bit – it’s nonsense – an elastic ruler.

… simply, there is no unusual level of deaths in the UK

195605 NickR, replying to NickR, 6, #1351 of 1839 🔗

When you look a at ‘all respiratory deaths by week for the last 10 years & put them alongside the current year’s total they’re pretty similar. But, bear in mind that most of the Covid deaths this year are ‘with covid’ rather than ‘off covid’ so it’s a significant over-representation of deaths this year.

195936 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to NickR, #1352 of 1839 🔗

I am constantly brought back to the flu numbers as well. They are nowhere to be seen, almost repleced like for like by Covid, with all the issues we have with PCR and co-morbidities in counting that number.

As this rumbles on I begin to question my own sanity. Am I missing something here? Surely the Covid narrative is destroyed by this?

195610 Mabel Cow, 4, #1353 of 1839 🔗

Probably already been posted, but here’s Boris rapping about his COVID strategy.

195620 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1354 of 1839 🔗

This caught my eye. It’s from a letter someone shared BTL on Malcolm Kendrick’s blog.

I must admit, I hadn’t put all the cardivascular symptoms together before but it neatly explains the covid mortality demographic:

Based around the vascular disease (which causes the respiratory symptoms) and is the only explanation for the death demographics (elderly, vascular co-morbities, lack of O2 transmission in the alveolar, COVID toe, loss of senses of taste and smell etc.etc.)

195815 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Cheezilla, #1355 of 1839 🔗

‘Compared to individuals with normal weight, obese individuals reported a consistently higher frequency of upper and lower RTIs (Respiratory Tract Infections)’

https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-018-5172-8

20 Feb 2018

‘It suggest that obesity contributes to clinical manifestations and may influence the progression and prognosis of COVID-19 and it is considered as a potential risk factor of the prognosis of COVID-19.’

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41366-020-00677-2

13 Sept 2020

A clear reason for significantly lower covid 19 mortality in Japan, Vietnam etc

195622 Steve Jones, 4, #1356 of 1839 🔗

In the crisis, the government and many MPs have shown such poor judgement that were I on trial and one of them were on the jury, I’d give up all hope.

195629 BobT, replying to BobT, 17, #1357 of 1839 🔗

Looking at Euromomo country data for excess deaths (down the page at this link)
https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps it is noticeable that 12 out of twenty European countries show no sign of any excess deaths for the whole year, 3 others show a small peak in April leaving France, Spain, Italy, UK and Belgium showing a significant peak in excess deaths in April/May.

So why do 15 countries show little or no excess deaths while just 5 do? All of them had some form of lockdown or other NPI’s but only France, Spain, Italy, UK and Belgium either lacked capacity or ordered their hospitals to discharge many sick patients home or into care homes.

In the UK ~60,000 (half of all) patients were discharged mid March and the normal NHS occupancy of ~110,000 did not recover until August.

The evidence is now coming in about what happened to these discharged patients. Amnesty International have done a damning report on the care home failures, The ONS have admitted that 40% of the deaths at the April peak were non Covid related and now the data shows that many more persons than usual died at home this year. This together could explain the whole number of excess deaths.

The curve was not flattened it was peaked by discharging these patients and because of the further restrictions to the availability of health care for others. The evidence now shows that the lives of many have been lost or shortened unnecessarily not from Covid-19 but due to poor management of the NHS capacity.

195650 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to BobT, 5, #1358 of 1839 🔗

And that very peak is being used to justify the current idiocy.

195651 ▶▶ RickH, replying to BobT, 1, #1359 of 1839 🔗

It’s pretty certain that the variation between countries has little to do with government interventions, and that all other things are not equal.

Folly to guess.

195671 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to RickH, 6, #1360 of 1839 🔗

I think that it’s true to say that there was no government intervention that reduced mortality, but I think BobT’s point bears thinking about and I’m increasingly inclined to it. Did the government interventions – what they did to prepare for an expected peak – actually contribute to a peak itself. The fact that most countries of a similar latitude didn’t experience the same makes the question worth looking into, at least.

195787 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to matt, 2, #1361 of 1839 🔗

Very much looks that way

195789 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #1362 of 1839 🔗

It does, doesn’t it?

195862 ▶▶▶▶▶ hat man, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #1363 of 1839 🔗

Could this be resent with a link to the source of the NHS bed information?

It looks very convincing, I must say.

195923 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ BobT, replying to hat man, 2, #1364 of 1839 🔗
196102 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to BobT, #1365 of 1839 🔗

Did you manage to get the attention of Carl Heneghan? He has a team at CEBM, so worth trying them at the group level.

195655 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to BobT, 1, #1366 of 1839 🔗

Hi, Bob. 🙂

I mention Malcolm Kendrick’s interview on BrandNewTube with Zac Cox where he discusses Euromomo figures; he also points this anomaly out. https://brandnewtube.com/watch/dr-zac-uncensored-with-dr-malcolm-kendrick-live_W2EGf2HuoMorJVI.html

195712 ▶▶ Tony Rattray, replying to BobT, 2, #1368 of 1839 🔗

Excellent analysis and summary. My thoughts also. Toby please note.

195633 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 11, #1369 of 1839 🔗

Dan Wootten just asked Chris Bryant (Labour Mp for Rhondda) what the ICU capacity was that justified fire whatever. He answered 75%. Asked what it was same time last year, he spluttered and said about 50% of that!!!

Well worth a watch back. Absolute tool.

195636 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1370 of 1839 🔗

Wow – beyond heated!!

195738 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1371 of 1839 🔗

Where did he conjure those ridiculous numbers from? And as for the name-calling!!!!!!!

Jaw dropping stuff!

195640 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1372 of 1839 🔗

Lies

195642 ▶▶ tinxx, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1373 of 1839 🔗

If someone has the correct numbers for Rhonda last year to hand, please send to Dan!

195721 ▶▶▶ Jo, replying to tinxx, #1374 of 1839 🔗

Haven’t checked it out properly yet, but it might be on this site – worth a look
https://coronavstats.co.uk/wales

195748 ▶▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to Sarigan, #1376 of 1839 🔗

Oof. What a disgrace Bryant is.

195781 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1377 of 1839 🔗

He called 26,000 excess people dying at home a tedious argument. Every life matters people

195778 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Sarigan, 3, #1378 of 1839 🔗

Wow, that needs to be advertised far and wide. Bryant, who I recall trained as a priest – has well and truly lost the plot. He did not engage with the argument at all, and let himself and his constituents down – he should resign after that outburst.

195837 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1379 of 1839 🔗

… he spluttered and said about 50% of that!!!

I have no words.

195635 AnotherSceptic, 1, #1380 of 1839 🔗

Apologies if this has already been posted, but if it’s not…
Meanwhile in Scotland…

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/police-scotland-can-access-test-22871031

195637 Voz 0db, 2, #1381 of 1839 🔗

I guess Mythical RNA “SARS-CoV-2” doesn’t have the power to infect animals demonstrating pro-terrorism!

195647 Angryphon of Tunbridge Wells, replying to Angryphon of Tunbridge Wells, 19, #1382 of 1839 🔗

If the essential wearing of masks is soo effective why are they not classified as toxic hazardous waste?They blow around the streets dropped casually at work.These rags of doom.The Revolution will be brief and dynamic.Time to educate and agitate.

195666 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Angryphon of Tunbridge Wells, 7, #1383 of 1839 🔗

These rags of doom

I feel a book coming on.

195906 ▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to Ceriain, 3, #1384 of 1839 🔗

grapes of wrath, rags of doom, masks of madness

195652 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 16, #1385 of 1839 🔗

Are the leaders of our 4 nations trying to outdo each other in stupidity?

195656 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Fingerache Philip., 9, #1386 of 1839 🔗

Shall we expand it to most world politicians?

195659 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Awkward Git, 4, #1387 of 1839 🔗

YES!!!!!!!!!!

195918 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1388 of 1839 🔗

Yes, please don’t leave us out! Our politicians seem hellbent on destroying Toronto, the economic engine of Canada.

195661 ▶▶ annie, replying to Fingerache Philip., 6, #1389 of 1839 🔗

Dripfeed an easy winner.
Wins on malice as well. Worst enemy to the Welsh people since King Edward I.

195776 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Fingerache Philip., #1390 of 1839 🔗

If only we could just make Jacinta Ahern the President of the World

195826 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1391 of 1839 🔗

Yes.

195662 Will, replying to Will, 21, #1392 of 1839 🔗

Further to my daughter’s cancelled appointment today, the GP was on the phone within 20 minutes. I did have a bit of a vent, including telling her that it is not our job to protect the NHS but the NHS’ job to protect us, especially five year olds who are spending a day a week being poisoned. The paediatrician who referred us was very quick in his response as well but I am almost certain he is a lockdown sceptic. I am going to broach the subject with my BH but I am hardening in my opinion that we should sue these fuckers.

195772 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Will, 6, #1393 of 1839 🔗

I honestly believe that unless politicians and civil servants go to jail over this we will have lost the battle. The future we are headed to does not feel like one I can stomach.

195952 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #1394 of 1839 🔗

And the Frankensteins on the SAGE committee. There’s more science in a chemistry set.

195994 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #1395 of 1839 🔗

Agree. We should find a way to ensure that something like this should never happen again.

195668 Laura Suckling, replying to Laura Suckling, 29, #1396 of 1839 🔗

Things that have enraged me recently (they are legion).

Virtual

Virtual parties
Virtual any kind of celebration – Birthday, Halloween, Guy Faux, Church service, Christmas
Virtual meetings
Virtual Yoga (FFS!)
Virtual visits to loved ones

So basically, we need to lead a virtual life. That is not a life, it is an existence lived through a screen.

This has been mentioned before but: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Machine_Stops .
This was published in 1909.

There must be a psychology governing body that realises the harm in having little or no contact with other human beings. I have yet to hear any outrage from any such body (if one exists). Remember, solitary confinement is considered a punishment, for what are we being punished?

Health – Life

There is more to health and life than the avoidance of death
There are many illnesses in addition to Covid 19
Sometimes the extension of life is less beneficial than a shorter one with some quality
There are many factors that shorten life including destitution

Back to the psychology, I am concerned that the wearing the masks is dehumanising allowing a vile virtual signalling and the stigmatising of others. There are plenty of instances in history to look back and learn from regarding the above.

‘The Greater Good’ – protecting others

And here we go: I wear a mask to protect others, I cease to socialise to protect the vulnerable, I will ruin my business for ‘safety’ – ad infinitum.

Track and Trace – or perhaps the precursor to social credit (anything is possible)

Well, that didn’t take long did it. Someone in their late 60s rang talk radio today saying that upon returning to the UK (and self isolating) his wife got a couple of calls from an unknown number. She did not answer (as she did not know who they were from). Subsequently, she received a call from the police asking why she didn’t answer the calls.

Nothing sinister about this at all.

There was a episode of Black Mirror (can’t remember what series) about social credit. The writer of that series has declined to write any more episodes as previous episodes have started to become real life. That should give us an indication as to what is currently happening.

I apologise for the over long post.

195700 ▶▶ Jo, replying to Laura Suckling, 6, #1397 of 1839 🔗

I heard that – and just to make it clear, the police actually came round to their house. Presenter then made a joke to caller about “checking the garden and shed for police”

195720 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Laura Suckling, 4, #1398 of 1839 🔗

Excellent post. Don’t apologise.

195732 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Laura Suckling, 7, #1399 of 1839 🔗

Don’t apologise, Laura. You’re right about it all.

My last confrontation was over the ‘informed consent’ basic issue re. PCR testing in a hospital (I don’t consent to invasive procedures that have no basis in science).

My next may well be a controlled explosion over the hypocrisy of people who wear a mask and a poppy.

… so no, don’t apologise for having your intelligence assaulted.

195793 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Laura Suckling, 2, #1400 of 1839 🔗

Don’t apologise.

Frightening and worrying how people get used to a life that isn’t really much of a life.

Has focused my mind on spending personal time as far as possible with people who “get it” and ignoring the rest

195905 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to Laura Suckling, 2, #1401 of 1839 🔗

I agree with you, Laura. Of late, the virtualisation of everything makes me think about a situation in which we’re never allowed to eat. We can talk about food, look at images of food, think about food, long for food, but never actually have a meal. There are some things that are irreducible needs; simulacra can’t cut it.

195958 ▶▶ HoMojo, replying to Laura Suckling, 2, #1402 of 1839 🔗

Actually solitary confinement is regarded as torture

196050 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Laura Suckling, 1, #1403 of 1839 🔗

The lack of physical contact with others is a basic human need. Not being able to clap someone on the shoulder, or even offer a comforting touch on the arm, shake hands, hug someone, high five someone – all these are a necessary part of human relationships that have basically disappeared in the last 7 months.. Elbow bumps are NOT the same thing..

195674 Motke, replying to Motke, 34, #1405 of 1839 🔗

I just received this text message:

In a surprising announcement expected within 24 hours in Wales, the government will require that our children must be thrown in front of buses. The measure makes it a crime not to throw your children in front of a bus full of elderly passengers if there is a chance that the bus might crash. It is argued that throwing children in front of buses full of OAPs might conceivably slow the bus down slightly and possibly result in slightly fewer elderly people dying. The government expects the measure to be self policing. However anyone witnessing someone who refuses to throw their child in front of a bus is encouraged to report such acts of wanton irresponsibility to the police.

195684 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to Motke, 9, #1406 of 1839 🔗

Hail Moloch!

195685 ▶▶ Will, replying to Motke, 11, #1407 of 1839 🔗

That is exactly what they are doing to my poor daughter. Fucking wankers.

195709 ▶▶ Will, replying to Motke, 4, #1408 of 1839 🔗

That has to be at the top of tomorrow’s update.

195735 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Motke, 2, #1409 of 1839 🔗

the only lie at this stage is the word ‘surprising’

195740 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Motke, 3, #1410 of 1839 🔗

And they were mocking Trump for his bleach gaffe….

195686 Stuart, replying to Stuart, 11, #1411 of 1839 🔗

The new Dripfeed Protocols indicate that where Wales leads England will surely follow.

Meanwhile, the Chinese are falling about laughing. But not in Cardiff.

195693 ▶▶ Jo, replying to Stuart, 10, #1412 of 1839 🔗

“I fully agree, I live and work in mid Wales and welcome this mini lockdown especially with half-term coming up and people arriving from who knows where potentially bringing CV-19 to areas with no or low infections!

I’ll never get the logic of waiting for more cases, more hospital admissions and more deaths before taking action against a virus where cases grow exponentially. Yes, it may seem unfair but how many of your constituents would you allow to die before actually taking action?

So true! Maybe if we had an extended lockdown in March/April/May, then we wouldn’t be in this situation…

Well said.”

These are the idiots we are dealing with…

195708 ▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to Jo, 10, #1413 of 1839 🔗

We’ve got absolutely no hope. Most of the public are morons.

195733 ▶▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Hubes, 4, #1414 of 1839 🔗

My current position is all are morons until i’m shocked to find out otherwise.

195723 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Jo, 3, #1415 of 1839 🔗

Emotional nonsense. Losing patience with such arguments now. Having to just walk away before I say or do something I regret

195768 ▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Jo, 2, #1416 of 1839 🔗

I suspect he / she would be a lot less “pro” had they realised that on their poorest day they are likely to be more wealthy than their future days. Like so many businesses who have failed to challenge, they deserve what’s coming.

195743 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Stuart, 1, #1417 of 1839 🔗

They took us for a ride.
But even they couldn’t fathom that we are still falling for it.

195691 Hubes, replying to Hubes, 13, #1418 of 1839 🔗

In London, it is illegal for a person (knowingly) with the plague to flag down a taxi or try and ride on a bus. The law prohibits any person who knows that they have a notifiable disease (including the plague) from entering any form of public conveyance (taxi) without first telling the driver of the conveyance.

Think that’s it for the plague. No masks or social distancing, have as many people as you want round your house. Stay in the pub after 10 and just tell the taxi driver you have it when you get in the taxi.

I miss the plague. The good old days.

195713 ▶▶ MizakeTheMizan, replying to Hubes, 3, #1419 of 1839 🔗

It’s a good reason not to ever get tested.

195718 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Hubes, 10, #1420 of 1839 🔗

I used to run a very successful body collection business during the plague. Business has completely dried up since Covid began.

195949 ▶▶▶ HoMojo, replying to Sarigan, #1421 of 1839 🔗

As far as I recall you didn’t need to be tested to see if you got the plague, it was kind of evident

195692 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 13, #1422 of 1839 🔗

A mask works in the same way as a condom with a hole in it.

It may hold back the virus or some sperm for a while but if one gets through and you end up infected or with a baby then it’s not really worked at all.

195725 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Nobody2020, 7, #1423 of 1839 🔗

but if one baby is prevented its worth it!!! Just one!!!!

195942 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nobody2020, #1424 of 1839 🔗

Don’t all condoms have a hole?

195706 Jenny, replying to Jenny, 50, #1425 of 1839 🔗

Bad day today. After trying to patiently explain things to him I have finally accepted that semi-romantic interest is actually a member of the ovine community. So that’s that. At least I have my son who (along with his best friend who I will confess is probably the ringleader) is in trouble (again) at school for stealing a couple of someone’s disposable masks (they are optional outside class – boys boarding prep so age 13 at most – but a few do wear them) and putting them on the skeleton in the lab and the bust of Beethoven in the music room. When hauled before the headmaster son’s friend apparently said that the skeleton had told him he wanted to wear the mask to protect others. That kid has some nerve!

195710 ▶▶ Liam, replying to Jenny, 9, #1426 of 1839 🔗

My sympathies. I abruptly terminated a stuttering romance last week for the same reasons.

195711 ▶▶ matt, replying to Jenny, 6, #1427 of 1839 🔗

Brilliant

195719 ▶▶ Will, replying to Jenny, 10, #1428 of 1839 🔗

Brilliant, we live and work in a boarding school and I will be telling that story to everyone.

195731 ▶▶▶ Jenny, replying to Will, 13, #1429 of 1839 🔗

In all fairness to the school they are doing as little as they can get away with and I have been really impressed. I suspect the headmaster is a closet sceptic but I do understand they need insurance so can’t stick two fingers up at it all. We have had extensive emails reminding us these are young boys and perfection cannot be expected.

195940 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Jenny, 1, #1430 of 1839 🔗

Just sounds normal to me. We knew before everybody went back that there would be pranks involving masks. What else would you expect?

195730 ▶▶ matt, replying to Jenny, 6, #1431 of 1839 🔗

“Hedmarster sas we must ware marsks “becoz of coronavirus” chiz chiz.

195736 ▶▶▶ Jenny, replying to matt, 3, #1432 of 1839 🔗

It is pretty much that kind of skool but, as I say elsewhere, they have been as good as they can be!

195737 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jenny, 7, #1433 of 1839 🔗

Son like that = good day !

195752 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Jenny, 4, #1434 of 1839 🔗

Like his style.

195771 ▶▶ deldor, replying to Jenny, 5, #1435 of 1839 🔗

Lol!

Skeleton needs to understand it didn’t do him/her a lot of good it would seem……

195785 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Jenny, 5, #1436 of 1839 🔗

Sorry to hear about romantic interest but probably for the best. I can’t imagine what these last months would have been like had my Mrs been pro lockdown.

Hats off to your son and his friends.

195871 ▶▶ annie, replying to Jenny, 3, #1437 of 1839 🔗

Lad should get a medal.

195946 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to Jenny, 1, #1438 of 1839 🔗

This sort of gentle hi-jinx being cause for seeing the Headteacher is exactly why these Tory posh boy politicians think that these rules are suitable for schools. In the average comprehensive it is enough for the teachers to check that pupils are in clean/warm clothes, have a pen with them and that not too many assaults happen that day. Masks and social distancing are so far down the list of priorities to be invisible.

195727 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 6, #1439 of 1839 🔗

In Parliament, between sessions they dont they have deep clean, like they do in little cafe’s where they swab away at the table and chairs in between diners, they just pause to let people in and out and not pass too close in the doorway. Different rules

195792 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Dan Clarke, 5, #1440 of 1839 🔗

And in mcdonalds, if an employee has to isolate, other employees don’t have to and are told not to talk about it to friends, family or the public…

195802 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #1441 of 1839 🔗

Wow

195937 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #1442 of 1839 🔗

I wonder how many other companies have this quiet policy?

195729 Julian, replying to Julian, 6, #1443 of 1839 🔗

Ian Brown is backing tweeting scepticism, no mention of why previous tweets disappeared

195742 ▶▶ Liam, replying to Julian, 12, #1444 of 1839 🔗

Twitter is evil. They can close down the accounts of a leading American newspaper or the press secretary of the elected US president in five seconds, while shrugging about Jihadi decapitation porn. It’s a criminal organisation, utterly wicked.

195747 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Liam, 2, #1445 of 1839 🔗

Indeed. It didn’t seem likely that Brown had suddenly turned but I am heartened to see it confirmed.

195734 John P, replying to John P, 12, #1446 of 1839 🔗

Great piece in the Conservative Woman on Boris by Andrew Cadman:

Are we paying the price of Johnson’s Churchill complex?
https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/are-we-paying-the-price-of-johnsons-churchill-complex/

Excerpt:

“What if, deep down, Boris sees the hideous economic and cultural ruin we are now undergoing as a similar sacrifice that he, The Great Man, must make in a titanic struggle against a merciless, implacable killer?

Just like Blair deluded himself concerning the threat of Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction that he, The Great Man, must confront at all costs, Boris and perhaps many other world leaders have allowed themselves to be convinced that Covid-19 represents an existential threat when it is nothing of the kind.”

195745 ▶▶ Julian, replying to John P, 8, #1447 of 1839 🔗

I think simple vanity and ego play a huge part in a lot of very bad political choices

195935 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to John P, #1448 of 1839 🔗

Churchill complex? Superiority complex more like.

195953 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to John P, #1449 of 1839 🔗

Hubris

195739 annie, replying to annie, 2, #1450 of 1839 🔗

Hear ye all ye Welshies!
You can vote on Dripfeed’s gulag!
And there is a space for free comment.
Go it.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/mark-drakeford-police-enforcement-rules-19128824

195750 ▶▶ annie, replying to annie, 5, #1451 of 1839 🔗

PS. A zombie comments on the Welsh gulag. Inadvertently hits the nail on the head as concerns the timing.My bold:

“Whilst I think this is a good idea and sets an example for England, Scotland and Ireland, there will always be the minority who think the rules don’t apply to them. I don’t see how we can prevent people coming over from high infection areas in England such as Liverpool and the North West…so it’ll probably all be for nothing. But at least we’ve still got the furlough scheme until the end of the month – smart move to do it now.”

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/mark-drakeford-police-enforcement-rules-19128824#comments-section

Yes, when Rishi turns off the free money hose, complete shutdown ain’t going to look so clever, is it, Dripfeed?

195784 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to annie, 1, #1452 of 1839 🔗

And drakeford is begging Westminster for more money. The gall of it.

The timing coincides with the beginning of half term so high school kids only have one week disruption.

The senedd has negotiated a peace treaty with the covid race until the firebreak starts.

195754 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to annie, 7, #1453 of 1839 🔗

My mum was born in Caerphilly and my childhood summers were spent in Dinas Cross so I hope I qualify.

My brief reasoning:

There is no evidence that lockdowns or ‘fire-breaks’ will halt the spread of the virus at all. There is evidence however, that masks increase spread and that lockdowns will cause more excess deaths than the ‘virus’.

The impact of lockdowns on the economy, excess deaths, mental health, delayed treatments and life is not proportionate to the risk. The NHS has had 6 months to prepare for the so called 2nd wave, where has the money and the time been spent?

195927 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to annie, 1, #1454 of 1839 🔗

When faced with the question whether there would be more police on streets as well as regular border checks with England, where a national lockdown is yet to be announced, Mr Drakeford pleaded with the people of Wales.

In his pointed response, he said: “Can I say to all the people who are listening and to the people that you will know, that if we have to rely on the police and enforcement agencies to make a success of this period we will not succeed.

Ha ha: two word answer, Turtle’s Head. Second word “off”.

195931 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, #1455 of 1839 🔗

PS Voted “No” and told them that lockdowns don’t work.

195751 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 27, #1456 of 1839 🔗

Chatting to people out and about today it seems that the “sacrifice yourselves to save the NHS” theme is now played out.

The mounting deaths from suicide, cancer, hearts problems, granny dying alone in care homes, not seeing granny and so on now is now not believed and is what is turning he tide from “doing our bit” to “we’ve been lied to” as the national religion has let them down.

More people becoming ware of the NHS and care home staff speaking out a they have 1st and experience of the consequences of the population incarceration.

And no-one has any faith in the politicians and think that most of what they see on MSM is bullshit and the precautions are now totally nonsensical even for the average man in the street.

Except for the terminally scared (normally in the 60-70 age bracket, reasonably successful in life) and the compliant young.

Lot less mask in the street wearing, lot less driving one with mask on observed, a lot more accepting of the free-faced in shops etc and most shop staff totally sceptical.

75% of people wearing masks have them pulled down below the nose so worthless as a precaution.

Normal question they ask is “if I was safe 6 months ago when everyone was dying why am I in danger now?” which is when I point them towards this site, law fiction etc.

195919 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1457 of 1839 🔗

Normal question they ask is “if I was safe 6 months ago when everyone was dying why am I in danger now?”

Which is what we were saying in July…

196037 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1458 of 1839 🔗

I note that Peter Hitchens was singing Toby’s and this site’s praises on Talk Radio today 🙂

196176 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1459 of 1839 🔗

“if I was safe 6 months ago when everyone was dying why am I in danger now?”

A massively pertinent question. And remember – even then – most people during that mortality spike had to think hard to come up with people who had a severe illness that was pretty definitely Covid.

They really are now taking the population for utter, gullible mugs.

Unfortunately, many are intent on proving them right.

195756 Jo, replying to Jo, 12, #1460 of 1839 🔗

On the whole, not such a bad day.
Started badly, heard the news about Wales , then dozed off and dreamt that whole UK was in lockdown (yeah, I know, most of it is) – had to do reality check.
But then had long conference by the river with boaters – got 6 deep sceptics and we are thinking of starting the resistance! (Probably in jest, but at least we are a group locally of one mind). Then later today, spoke to my previously pro-LD friend who admitted that she is no longer listening to any news and is ignoring the tiers and just going to do what she likes. Doesn’t sound like much, but a little bit of progress

195774 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Jo, 6, #1461 of 1839 🔗

Hopefully the fire break, or whatever bullshit name they’ve given it, will spark more discontent in Wales.

195914 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #1462 of 1839 🔗

Don’t think I can get any more discontented. Am still going to London on Saturday.

195759 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1463 of 1839 🔗

here is how to request FOI from the Welsh Assembly;

https://senedd.wales/en/abthome/about_us-commission_assembly_administration/abt-foi/Pages/abt-Freedom_of_Info.aspx

I’m going to send them what I asked the local councils and DHSC round here last week just to have some fun.

195803 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1464 of 1839 🔗

Sent it in plus to drakeford, the welsh CMO and the scottish lot PH Scotland just for the share the shit factor.

Any answers and I’ll post it.

Now signing off, supper – nice selection of mature chess and a reasonable port.

195853 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1465 of 1839 🔗

You eat chess?
You are an Awkward Git!
Gitmate,

195977 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1466 of 1839 🔗

Rook pie ?

196035 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to JohnB, #1467 of 1839 🔗

Talking of rooks, did anyone else notice that Rudy Guiliani has a chess set with the twin towers as rooks?!

195761 Darryl, replying to Darryl, 3, #1468 of 1839 🔗

Just came across a 2 minute video from 20th March – looks like this guy was several months ahead of most of us with the ‘Reset’ idea. Not quite sure what made him think of using this method. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQaHuDi5ckI&feature=youtu.be

195890 ▶▶ HoMojo, replying to Darryl, #1469 of 1839 🔗

Bit of a stretch since it ignores the O (not nought) so why didn’t they call it Cvid? Numerology would also say that 19 is 10 therefore one which symbolises new beginnings but personally, while I accept that the agendas are not what they seem, this seems to me to be simplistic

195763 Leemc23, replying to Leemc23, 9, #1470 of 1839 🔗

If lockdown in Wales was so desperately needed, why Thursday and not now? That’s 72 hours of risk they are happy to manage. Idiotic in the extreme.

No ones ever claiming “United Kingdom” ever again in my view. Their gesture is political bullshit and frankly if £1 of my tax is used to support this folly it is £1 too much.

195911 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Leemc23, 1, #1471 of 1839 🔗

Friday…

195764 annie, replying to annie, 4, #1472 of 1839 🔗

mmmmm

195790 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to annie, 6, #1473 of 1839 🔗

Doughnut? Malted Milk? Wine? Just got kissed by a prince?

Need to know, Ann. 😉

195795 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Ceriain, 2, #1474 of 1839 🔗

I’m guessing “so spittingly furious, can’t decide which little gem of vitriol to drop next”

195850 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to matt, 2, #1475 of 1839 🔗

Concentrated sulphuric acid, yeah. Has many uses.

195848 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Ceriain, 3, #1476 of 1839 🔗

Actually a frantic attempt to post a clip from Wakes online in which Dripfeed more or less admits that the gulag rules will be unenforceable.

195855 ▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to annie, 5, #1477 of 1839 🔗

Wakes online

Freudian slip? God, I’m on a roll here. 😉

195926 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Ceriain, #1478 of 1839 🔗

Malted milk??

195766 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 9, #1480 of 1839 🔗

Hello LDS

Dr Matt Strauss says public health “was not in favour” of lockdowns at the beginning of the coronavirus pandemic, telling Dan Wootton “it was kind of outraged social media mobs that forced their hand a little bit.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcTKeEvxv0Q

195775 ▶▶ Will, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 5, #1481 of 1839 🔗

And Macron’s threat to shut the border and the idiot Ferguson.

195817 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 6, #1482 of 1839 🔗

I just can’t believe that. Maybe if lockdown had only lasted 3 or 4 weeks and now we were back to normal it would make sense. But they’ve just kept on and on with it. Is he saying they are now in favour (and on the basis of what evidence), or would they rather continue to trash the country to keep the idiots on social media quiet?

195769 John P, replying to John P, 43, #1483 of 1839 🔗

“In the past we sent young men to their deaths to fight old men’s wars, now we just shut them away and tell them they can’t see their friends or receive a proper education. In both cases we’ve destroyed their economic future, there won’t be jobs for them after this.”

– Kirstie Allsopp (twitter)

I think Kirstie Allsopp is probably my favorite media personality. On twitter she is always calm, classy, compassionate, and common-sense in her views and outlook. She knows how to defend her corner as well, when necessary.

195800 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to John P, 4, #1484 of 1839 🔗

At least when you survived the war there was a shortage of labour and you had your pick of the ladies…

195828 ▶▶ DRW, replying to John P, 3, #1485 of 1839 🔗

Indeed. It says how just successfully brainwashed most of us youngsters are when most are celebrating the destruction of our collective future.

195770 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 26, #1486 of 1839 🔗

I must say this seasons The Apprentice is the best one yet.

The usual bunch of trumped up know-it-alls with either zero sense or life experience trying to prove that they can cut the mustard.

The pandemic task stands out in particular. Johnson whilst leading the task somehow managed to get himself infected. There’s the usual canvassing of opinions that are then totally ignored and Hancock leading the sub team has monumentally cocked up the Test and Trace.

Whoever was put in charge of costing clearly forgot their calculator or misplaced a decimal point somewhere along the lines. The overall objective was to minimise the costs to life and the economy but somehow they’ve managed to maximise both.

The current lot put all past contestants to shame. Can’t wait for the boardroom where I suspect Lord Sugar will fire more than one of them.

195786 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Nobody2020, 7, #1487 of 1839 🔗

Nice bit of satire. Dido to win it, I think.

195794 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Nobody2020, 8, #1488 of 1839 🔗

Always thought Ambush and Triumph sounded like Apprentice team names.
“Your task is to sell as many vaccines as you can.”

195852 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to DRW, 3, #1489 of 1839 🔗

Brilliant!

195842 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #1490 of 1839 🔗

oh very GOOD

195955 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #1491 of 1839 🔗

This would make brilliant twitter thread with appropriate hashtags in there !

195780 Ceriain, replying to Ceriain, 22, #1492 of 1839 🔗

Being in the vulnerable group, I normally get a flu jab sometime in the first two weeks of October at my GP’s surgery. This year they are doing them en masse at the local church hall; i.e. queue up outside in the cold (and rain); please wear a mask.

We’ve been told that we must have sleeves rolled up, so things can be done quickly; a security ‘marshal’ (with a clipboard and hi-vis jacket) will check identity details at the door, and anyone not wearing a mask has to provide documented proof of why they are exempt (yes, my own surgery asking me to prove why I’m exempt!).

I missed the first day I was ‘qualified’ to book for (I actually never booked), and now my phone is being hammered with text messages and automated phone messages (2/3 of each every day); some from the surgery, some from a company I’ve never heard of ( sponsored by another company I’ve also never heard of).

In the past, if I missed the first day of flu jabs, I got a nice friendly call from the nurse, or receptionist, asking if I was okay and could they book me in for the next day. This year, I’m getting the above. When I call to make an appointment (and to stop the automated crap) it’s constantly engaged. *sigh*

My surgery is one of those currently locked up like Fort Knox. This year the yearly blood tests I should have in March have been cancelled by them 3 times; it’s now October.

Just had to get that off my chest

195806 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Ceriain, 14, #1493 of 1839 🔗

You do NOT have to explain your exemption, the law is on your side. I am getting a flu jab in a few weeks time and the receptionist tried that on with me when arranging my appointment. I simply said ‘I have an exemption—it’s all in my records’ to which she answered that’s fine Mr Hopkins I’ll make a note of that.
I also had an ear examination at my local medical centre lately and simply said on arrival ‘I have an exemption’. The nurse was all sweetness and light and it wasn’t a problem at all.

They have a blanket approach to everybody but just stick to your guns and you’ll be OK.

195851 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #1494 of 1839 🔗

You do NOT have to explain your exemption…

Yeah, I know, Harry. That’s the point I was making. 🙂

195808 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Ceriain, 10, #1495 of 1839 🔗

Imagine if they put that much effort into their normal appointments system…

195782 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 66, #1496 of 1839 🔗

Did some shopping in my small town of Otley today. No mask and no hassle, indeed the butchers I went in were friendliness itself and I smiled and chatted to the elderly gent who served me. Nice bloke, I’ve known him for years. Asked him about his hip replacement that he’d had done pre covid—he wasn’t wearing a mask either.

On my way home I passed a stranger chatting to an elderly lady in a car park and I overheard the words ‘It’s all a fraud—I don’t know what’s going on!’. My antennae are primed for friendly voices and expressions of scepticism, so In the process of passing I gave them the thumbs up and said that yes it really was a scamdemic and that pretty soon the government would have to face the consequences of their actions.

Well that was it, I couldn’t stop these two from talking after that. Both middle aged and full of anger and condemnation of Johnson and his fellow gangsters. After about ten minutes or so another lady appeared, quite elderly and somewhat infirm, who obviously knew the other two. She began berating the situation and said that enough was enough ‘And do you know, I’ve had pneumonia twice in recent years and recovered both times, Illness is a fact of life and you’ve just got to deal with it’.

So there we were, the three of us, me and two people who I’ve never met before in my life standing NORMAL distances apart and having a great sceptic conversation. After my shopping and my chat I returned home full of optimism that the tide is really turning.

195797 ▶▶ Liam, replying to Harry hopkins, 18, #1497 of 1839 🔗

One step at a time. We must, must take every chance to talk to people. Well done.

195825 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Harry hopkins, 10, #1498 of 1839 🔗

Really nice to hear that Harry. I can’t face talking to any stranger these days.

195833 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Harry hopkins, 6, #1499 of 1839 🔗

Phew.

195838 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to Harry hopkins, 5, #1500 of 1839 🔗

glad tidings!

195840 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #1501 of 1839 🔗

Weegmans, Middlemiss or Wilkinson? I’ll go for Middlemiss

195857 ▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to arfurmo, 6, #1502 of 1839 🔗

I refuse to answer on the grounds that I might incriminate myself 🙂 Suffice to say that the butcher in question claims to make the best sausage rolls in Yorkshire! (but then again every Yorkshire butcher claims that so it might not be too good a clue).

195870 ▶▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #1503 of 1839 🔗

In happier times I would go for a Weegmans hot pork sandwich and then eat it in Billy Hills before an afternoons drinking with a mate from Burley. Weegmans pork pies best in Yorkshire but Middlemiss do a lamb pie which is very rare. Ah for those days.

195801 Leemc23, replying to Leemc23, 17, #1504 of 1839 🔗

It’s a compelling notion that the reason for the European mess is not at all based on inept science, but faith in inept Technology.

There seems to have been a view that the problems can be solved by technology break throughs in Vaccines for virus (wrong) that Track and Trace would work (wrong) that Social Media was a benign influence (wrong)

In regards to the vaccine I think politicians did assume that tech was so much more advanced than it is, which would have given us a risk free vaccine in months. They were so badly wrong, but explains a little why autumn seems to be such a shock for everyone.

Track and Trace is no different to any other Gov big tech project of the past. Sales people go in low, go in early and promise big things that can’t ever be delivered. The project over runs, costs more and more money and has such significant limitations that the “lessons learned” wash up indicates it was never the right choice in the first place. And they wonder how did it cost 4 times more ?

Social media is the vacuum chamber of the dim and immature and should never have become part of mainstream management of society, it really is a case of not listening to these people more than you need to, not always listening to them no matter what.

195818 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Leemc23, 8, #1505 of 1839 🔗

Also it’s been said before that Pratt Wankcock is obsessed with tech, probably because of vested interests.

195868 ▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to DRW, 3, #1506 of 1839 🔗

Adds to the theory I guess. Shame his tech does not stretch into having a watch that tells the correct time

195904 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Leemc23, 4, #1507 of 1839 🔗

Technocrats and people easily convinced that all problems can be solved, a big part of this disaster

195939 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Leemc23, 9, #1508 of 1839 🔗

Programmer here.

In my opinion, one of the fundamental problems with the tech industry is the weakness of programming languages.

The languages and the data representations we use are so rudimentary that most of the complexity and nuance of the real world has to be thrown away in order for it to “fit” into the programming model.

The result of this is spectacularly naïve systems that shoehorn human existence into the brain-dead representations available to programmers. Instead of augmenting our lives, these systems simplify them to the point of absurdity.

Just look at Facebook or Instagram. They reduce life to nothing more than chasing the dopamine rush of being liked or the adrenaline dump of being slighted. But what should we expect from technocrats like Zuckerberg, who themselves appear to be barely human?

This stunted technology is like Newspeak . It reduces everything, no matter how complicated, to a small number of animalistic grunts. It’s no wonder that our children can’t think critically.

Bah. I need some sleep.

196065 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mabel Cow, 3, #1509 of 1839 🔗

I think that needs to be developed. It’s interesting.

196128 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Leemc23, #1510 of 1839 🔗

Scientistm as its root.

195811 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 16, #1511 of 1839 🔗

Had the Royal British Legion poppy bloke in today. He asked if we would still like to have the collection box this year. I replied “Of course” and looked at him in a way that suggested, why wouldn’t we? He said that with all the “restrictions” we might not want to. Again, despair …

195830 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to kh1485, 15, #1512 of 1839 🔗

I wonder if anyone is selling blue poppies in remembrance of those killed by lockdown.

195917 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Mabel Cow, 5, #1513 of 1839 🔗

We had an ‘art installation’ in a local park for all the Covid victims a couple of months ago. When one of my friends posted an article on it, I said very sad but I hope they do the same thing for the covid restriction related cancer/heart attack/stroke/sepsis/suicide etc deaths. Bloody virtue signallers.

196018 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mabel Cow, 3, #1514 of 1839 🔗

I suggest the Michaelmas Daisy (Aster) in memory of all Lockdown Victims.

195814 Liam, replying to Liam, 24, #1515 of 1839 🔗

I just rewatched the “Red Star” episode of the incomparable “World at War” series. During the howling, unspeakable agony of the Leningrad siege, with 4,000 people dying every day under shellfire, starving in the freezing darkness, not one public venue closed. Not one.

195879 ▶▶ John P, replying to Liam, 2, #1516 of 1839 🔗

Yes, I posted that to Craig Murray’s site last year when Putin was snubbed by Poland on the 70th anniversary of the beginning of the war in Europe. One of the best documentary series’ ever made.

Link still up:

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x68qudk

195886 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to John P, 1, #1517 of 1839 🔗

80th (can’t add up)

195924 ▶▶▶ Liam, replying to John P, 2, #1518 of 1839 🔗

Incredible television. To be fair the Poles had their own awful suffering at the hands of the Soviets as well as the Germans.

195898 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Liam, 6, #1519 of 1839 🔗

Leningrad throughout the siege:

Theatre, opera, churches, performances all continued.

Britain throughout the blitz:

Theatre, opera, churches, performances all continued.

195921 ▶▶▶ Liam, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #1520 of 1839 🔗

Wonderful article about the astounding, majestic, heartbreaking courage and defiance of Leningrad under siege.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/shostakovich-leningrad-and-the-greatest-story-ever-played

196062 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Liam, #1521 of 1839 🔗

I’m in two minds about the Russian defence in WW2. On the one hand, it was magnificent and the rest of us would have been lost without it. On the other hand: for what?

195956 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to Liam, 4, #1522 of 1839 🔗

The Leningrad Philharmonic premiered Shostakovich’s 7th Symphony even though most of the musicians were starving. We cancelled the Proms for the whole summer (when the virus was at its weakest) in case we got a bit chesty. Sometimes I think we don’t deserve nice things.

196153 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Recusant, #1523 of 1839 🔗

Yes. And I bet we will be seeing the massive irony/insult next month of the usual fashionista poppy-wearing combined with a mask.

195816 godowneasy, replying to godowneasy, 10, #1524 of 1839