2020-10-20

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/10/20/latest-news-168/
Published2020-10-20T00:17:06
Last updated2020-10-20T15:51:44
Scraped2020-12-20T20:18:08
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196248 Jon G, replying to Jon G, 11, #1 of 2184 🔗

Morning

196250 ▶▶ TT, replying to Jon G, 12, #2 of 2184 🔗

Technically, yes… another day in f***** paradise !
At least it’s quiet here.

196337 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to TT, 9, #3 of 2184 🔗

Or, as one of my suppliers remarked sardonically: “living the dream”.

196405 ▶▶▶▶ Hoppy Uniatz, replying to kh1485, 15, #4 of 2184 🔗

I had a dream last night, in which I was in a bus careering far too fast along a bendy mountain road, and when I looked, nobody was driving it. I am not making this up

196773 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 10, #5 of 2184 🔗

An insane clown with a mop of stringy blonde hair and an evil facy nappy is driving my bus.

196784 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 6, #6 of 2184 🔗

That wasn’t a dream.

197203 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 2, #7 of 2184 🔗

Every day of lockdown piles on the evil

Pro Lockdown? WAKE UP! Selfish & Ignorant…
5 reasons not to go into lockdown. 2 heartbreaking stories & 3 reality checks…

Alex Belfield – THE VOICE OF REASON

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExbzvAlzyzY

196767 ▶▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to TT, 21, #8 of 2184 🔗

Hello Toby & LDS

Watch This 💔 8 Months Of Madness 🤦‍♂️ What On 🌍 Are We Doing? 🎥
Alex Belfield – THE VOICE OF REASON
7 months alone. Is this a price worth paying?…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXakzX8Lo08

****************************
If the Test works — Why the False positives?
If the Masks work – Why the Six Feet?
If the Six Feet work – Why the Masks?
If all Three work – Why the Lockdown?
If all Four work – Why the vaccine?
If the Vaccine is Safe – Why the No Liability Clause?
If SARS-CoV-2 exists – Why has it not been isolated?

197322 ▶▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to TT, #9 of 2184 🔗

To be ignore by the BBC, th e Government

‘No sign of a second wave’ as ONS data shows normal level of deaths for the time of year
People who would normally be expected to die of flu or pneumonia may instead be dying from Covid-19

There is no sign of a second wave, experts have said, as new Office for National Statistics (ONS) figures show deaths are just 1.5 per cent above the five-year average, and tracking on a normal trajectory for this time of year.

Although coronavirus deaths rose to 438 for the week ending October 9 – an increase of 36 per cent from the previous week when it was 321 – overall deaths rose just 143 above the five-year average.

There were also 19 fewer overall deaths than the same week last year.

Experts at Oxford University say it would have to get to 1,200 more deaths above the norm before it would usually be considered ‘excess’ above the expected variation in the data.

Researchers also found there would usually be around 1,600 weekly deaths from flu and pneumonia for the same week. Deaths from coronavirus, flu and pneumonia are currently running at 1,621, suggesting there is virtually no increase in expected respiratory deaths.

read on
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/20/second-wave-not-sight-ons-figures-show-deaths-just-15-per-cent/

198290 ▶▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #10 of 2184 🔗

What Dr Mike Yeadon has been saying all along.

196249 JailDrakefordNow, replying to JailDrakefordNow, 28, #11 of 2184 🔗

Making the Scottish, Northern Irish and Welsh PEOPLE pay for lockdowns is unfair, make their devolved governments pay for it from their own salaries and savings. Once Drakeford and Sturgeon haven’t a penny left in the bank, no more enforcement.

196325 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to JailDrakefordNow, 3, #12 of 2184 🔗

I thought the Bank of England was paying for Welsh and Scottish lockdown?

196326 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 18, #13 of 2184 🔗

We’re all paying, and in more ways than one.

196328 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 8, #14 of 2184 🔗

With Gaulieters Drakeford and Sturgeon divvying out the bungs.

196800 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to karenovirus, 17, #15 of 2184 🔗

The Bank of England is happy to pay for all UK lockdowns. The UK government is looking to lock us all down again and is doing this by the piecemeal approach. Johnson and Hancock want us so mind-fucked that we will be clamouring for Bill Gates’s liability free genocidal vaccines. The government has either taken a massive payout from the globalists or it actually believes its own bullshit, either way it has to go and fast.

196330 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to JailDrakefordNow, 21, #16 of 2184 🔗

Do not underestimate how much the people are driving the lockdown. Politicians know people much better than we do, and the people of Wales, Ireland and Scotland are demanding more lockdown. Mostly for other people, admittedly, but they are still driving it. Personally I would transfer the money directly from the bank accounts of office staff working comfortably from home into those of people losing their jobs. None of this bond issuance crap, it might concentrate a few minds.

196386 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Recusant, 22, #17 of 2184 🔗

“Personally I would transfer the money directly from the bank accounts of office staff working comfortably from home into those of people losing their jobs”

Some of us WFH are opposed to lockdown!

196396 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Ewan Duffy, 13, #18 of 2184 🔗

Mr Bart being one of them – he’s getting fed up with the whole thing and one thing that’s stopping him going back to work are the insane measures in his workplace.

196556 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fiat, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #19 of 2184 🔗

Ditto

196406 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Ewan Duffy, 16, #20 of 2184 🔗

I’ve been home based since 2018. But I also used to travel for work about once a fortnight and would often meet friends in town for a drink when my afternoon diary was quiet. The unending monotony of this has been seriously getting me down for months.

196501 ▶▶▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to matt, 59, #21 of 2184 🔗

At the beginning of this Plandemic my team have been told that they all need to work from the office as we are providing a vital service to my company that cannot be done from home ( IT support). I’m their manager and was told that on the other hand I do not need to risk my health and can easily work from home and have video calls with them . It took me about 1 minute to decide against that and I stated in managers meeting that I will be working side by side in the office with my team. I will never forget the faces of my fellow managers. One of them even said, but what if you get ill and die?! I did it not because I’m a martyr but because I could have not looked these guys in the eyes when I came back (a year down the line). It was the best decision I made in the last 8 months ( besides finding this website and not wearing a mask) Getting up, dressing up an a suit and going to the actual office has kept me sane trough this situation. We got through the height of it together with no social distancing , mask or any of that bollocks.And 8 months down the line we are all still here. Every single one of them has told me that this ha been the only thing keeping them going and if I can please,please never ask them to WFH. Sorry for going on but the bottom line is that working form home can have it’s advantages but the psychologist all over the world are now warning that it has a lot more damaging things.

196634 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Thomas_E, 2, #22 of 2184 🔗

Great to hear Thomas_E, you should have called Jeremy Vine yesterday, see below.

196648 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Thomas_E, 9, #23 of 2184 🔗

Well said. I feel the same. Despite the insane measures, I told my managers that returning to site was the best thing so far that has happened to me. I have found lockdown hard not helped that I live in a not so good area with not many places to go to and where drug use and domestics have grown since this madness started.

A friend of mine has also made the same thing clear to her manager – she’s returning to site as WFH has wreaked havoc on her psychologically.

196883 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Thomas_E, 15, #24 of 2184 🔗

I’m in a similar line of work, would go back to the office but the company has an mandatory masks in the office policy (no exemptions – WFH if you don’t like it) plus all the daft distancing bollocks too. So I’m still WFH.

196902 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ ChrisW, replying to zacaway, 4, #25 of 2184 🔗

I’d been back in the office for a while, then they decided to put massive sheets of cardboard between the desks. It feels like working inside a cardboard box. That plus the masks made me think sod it, I’m going back to WFH.

197217 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Thomas_E, #26 of 2184 🔗

Well done! Glad you can keep yourself and your team sane.

196445 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Ewan Duffy, 10, #27 of 2184 🔗

They discussed that on Jeremy Vines show yesterday, about how dispiriting working from home can be, quite a few called in to confirm.

197983 ▶▶▶▶▶ ianric, replying to karenovirus, 1, #28 of 2184 🔗

I have argued previously that there is an element of social engineering in lockdowns and one part of this is to isolate people from each other and prevent interaction. There are restrictions on who we can meet, we are told to keep six fee away from other people, masks isolate people from each other, venues where people socialise such as nightclubs, sporting events, pubs, gyms, theatres and churches are forced to close or operate under restrictions and in businesses there are screens which separate staff and customers. Work is one area where people interact with each other. Working from home prevents people interacting with work colleagues which is why it has been so heavily promoted.

My concern is that if my job could be done from home, my boss can decide to outsource my job to a low wage country. We have already seen IT and call centre jobs move to India. This point was made in an anti lockdown speech on youtube.

There was a discussion on the youtube channel computing forever where it was stated one aim of lockdown is to ensure people have no life from home. Working from home rather than travelling to work is one way to achieve this.

196452 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Ewan Duffy, 23, #29 of 2184 🔗

That’s a track and trace app I could get behind – one that registers if you are for or against lockdown – if you are for it, you contribute 100 quid a month to make up for people’s lost salaries – if you don’t pay up, you are immediately counted as against lockdown.

That might change the picture a bit.

197211 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ewan Duffy, 1, #30 of 2184 🔗

Then you could lead the drive to speed up the drive for normalcy.

196391 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Recusant, -8, #31 of 2184 🔗

Perhaps Sunak should now start taxing pensions and savings. That should wipe off the smirk from some upper middle class people who are still pushing for harder lockdowns.

196524 ▶▶▶▶ steph, replying to Bart Simpson, 28, #32 of 2184 🔗

Again, what about those who have some savings but are against lockdown? I would love to have been able to work but that’s not possible at the moment. I do have modest savings. Hands off, I worked hard for those and will work hard again if allowed to! I’m not upper middle class but I’m not sure how you would distinguish my money from theirs except that they are probably better equipped to hide it

196651 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to steph, #33 of 2184 🔗

I have my savings too but I am fed up with people who preach about how we should lockdown and protect the NHS but have not been hit by the adverse effects of what they’ve been advocating.

The state at their behest has imposed a Carthaginian destruction of the economy and society. Perhaps it should go the other side so they’re taught a lesson.

197336 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #34 of 2184 🔗

I’m very low income but have savings. I’m also anti lockdown. So you’re saying that people like me should be taxed over something we oppose? I think not, especially since if my savings are taken I’ll be out on the street like so many others.

198302 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Bart Simpson, #35 of 2184 🔗

Stewart (above) has a good idea about an app on which you can register being for or against lockdowns and pay for them out of your own money! That’d sort the sheep from the goats!

197636 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to steph, 1, #36 of 2184 🔗

One thing is certain, taxes are going to go through the roof and also watch out for “bail-ins” i.e. confiscations of your personal savings. Things are set to get very much worse and there is absolutely no light on the horizon.

196909 ▶▶▶▶ dickyboy, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #37 of 2184 🔗

Nah full asset levy. Every persons total wealth assessed and bam, 10pc due. Including your house. Don’t worry, payable over 10 years. That would change the lockdown zealot’s tunes.

196994 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to dickyboy, 1, #38 of 2184 🔗

I’d imagine the lockdownistas would quickly do a U turn when Sunak announces that.

197341 ▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to dickyboy, 1, #39 of 2184 🔗

Glad I have dual citizenship. I’m already concerned about having too large a proportion of my assets here.

197096 ▶▶▶▶ microdave, replying to Bart Simpson, 18, #40 of 2184 🔗

Perhaps Sunak should now start taxing pensions and savings

And you can bog off! Not everyone in receipt of a pension (private, in my case) or with savings, is demanding more insanity. I’m 64, and have lived a pretty parsimonious existence, which is how I managed to acquire some fairly decent savings, don’t owe anybody anything, and live (for now) on that small pension. I bought a motorhome shortly before the lockdown was announced (yes, have a good laugh), with the intention of seeing a bit more of “Great” Britain while I still could. Now that plan has been pretty well f***ed, with half the country shut down – largely, the parts I would have been visiting – and enforced muzzling in museums and railways. Our industrial & rail heritage were the two main things I was hoping to see more of, but those places which haven’t folded completely are mostly requiring pre-booking, and contact details, so that Twat Handcock can try and shut me at home on a false pretext. Yes, I know I can carry an exemption card or badge, but I don’t find doing so in any way pleasant, and to have other folk “jumping” or eying me suspiciously is bad enough on occasional shopping trips, let alone when trying to have an enjoyable time. So leave my hard won money alone, thank you very much…

198308 ▶▶▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to microdave, 1, #41 of 2184 🔗

With you one hundred per cent.
As far as wearing muzzles is concerned – why not make a mockery of it by wearing something ridiculous… a posing pouch, a pair of frilly knickers, or, as I do, a see-through silk scarf under my nose.
Do NOT wear one of these Chinese paper nappies under any circumstances.
And here’s hoping you ‘re able to enjoy that travelling very soon. Good luck!

198771 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ microdave, replying to Banjones, #42 of 2184 🔗

Thanks!

Why not make a mockery of it by wearing something ridiculous

I did consider wearing my welding helmet – it’s one with auto dimming, so is more or less clear under normal lighting..

196622 ▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Recusant, 2, #43 of 2184 🔗

But people are fickle. The Committee of public Safety played to the crowd and ended up losing their heads.

196812 ▶▶▶ D B, replying to Recusant, 8, #44 of 2184 🔗

I’m “office staff working comfortably from home” I’m opposed to lockdown, I hate the rules not allowing me into the office, I don’t have any contact with anyone and I took an 80% pay cut for the pleasure, have some class.

196357 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to JailDrakefordNow, 5, #45 of 2184 🔗

Who elected their devolved governments?

Politicians are followers not leaders. They do what the people dictate.

196362 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Lucan Grey, 5, #46 of 2184 🔗

They appear to be dictating what the people do.

196366 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Lucan Grey, 20, #47 of 2184 🔗

You seem to be under the impression that Britain is a democracy. Evidence suggests…maybe not so much.

196377 ▶▶▶▶ RichT, replying to Ovis, 10, #48 of 2184 🔗

The “democracy” we live in is an illusion.

Bonzo Dog Band – No Matter Who You Vote For The Government Always Gets In

Noises on the radio, megaphones on cars
Sermons from the street of shame, know-it-alls in bars
Posters in suburbia, experts on TV
Don’t let them disturb-i-ya
They’re just the powers that be
Hey-Ho!
Don’t worry! Nobody can win! (Hey-Ho! Hey-Ho!)
No matter who you vote for, the government always gets in
Hey-Ho!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-pT-w7qFl4

196462 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Ovis, 7, #49 of 2184 🔗

I think the illusion is believing democracy always produces good outcomes.

People are deluded in thinking democracy cannot produce tyranny. But it does.

Hard as it is for us on here to accept, there is popular support for this madness.

196638 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to stewart, 6, #50 of 2184 🔗

Part of the reasoning behind New World Order/Great Reset is that democracy is an inefficient way of reaching the ‘best’ outcomes.

198360 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan, replying to stewart, #51 of 2184 🔗

Without their media manufacturing consent, they couldn’t do a damned thing. If the MSM took an anti-lockdown line, the sheep would be anti-lockdown too.

196390 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Lucan Grey, 7, #52 of 2184 🔗

Drakeford was not elected.

196387 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to JailDrakefordNow, 6, #53 of 2184 🔗

I was about to make exactly the same point. Drakeford can start by selling his precious shed. Also, isn’t it the time of year when he has to hibernate?

196564 ▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to Mr Dee, 5, #54 of 2184 🔗

Under which bridge? The pencil necked slump shouldered bed wetting pissant. I’ve lost all respect and mock those that seek to hold power over us.
It’s time to call for tumbrels on College Green

196251 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 2, #55 of 2184 🔗

Can Guardian readers understand what their own charts are telling them ?

Also in Mondays edition of hot breaking news
‘Anti-lockdown advisor appears on show that has featured holocaust deniers’.
That’s last weeks ‘story’ about Dr. Martin Kuldorff appearing on Richie Allen’s radio show. Oh well, they say Monday is a slow day for news.

196255 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 39, #56 of 2184 🔗

Meanwhile round these parts Covid new cases exponentially doubled from 414 week ending October 8 to a terrifying 223 w/e 15th Oct.
Nobody died.

196261 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to karenovirus, 16, #57 of 2184 🔗

I’m sorry for your loss. Oh, wait… what? 😉

196282 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to karenovirus, 17, #58 of 2184 🔗

Eventually the reality of these figures must filter through – not to government or the media, of course, but to the people with the pitchforks.

196464 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 5, #59 of 2184 🔗

Well, it hasn’t in over 6 months.
Still waiting.

196607 ▶▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 1, #60 of 2184 🔗

It is a ‘medieval thought form’ manifesting ..

197343 ▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to David Grimbleby, #61 of 2184 🔗

I’m put in mind of the witch dunking in Monty Python’s Holy Grail.

196395 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to karenovirus, 5, #62 of 2184 🔗

But 414 is almost double 223 – I can do maf! /sarc

For the benefit of the audience, I am an accountant and can do maths 😉

196852 ▶▶▶▶ D B, replying to Ewan Duffy, #63 of 2184 🔗

Can I generally get pensions advice from an accountant?

196252 JailDrakefordNow, replying to JailDrakefordNow, 39, #64 of 2184 🔗

This time people all acros Britain need to be properly prepared, Toby this is an early comment so maybe you’ll see it before other comments surround it, start telling people how to organise locally so they cannot be locked down again. Start showing people how to keep businesses open, by whatever means necessary. The people of Britain cannot afford to aid the suppression obsession of lunatics like Hancock, this time we need to take control for ourselves, herd immunity or bust.

196331 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to JailDrakefordNow, 3, #65 of 2184 🔗

What businesses apart from taxis pubs and restaurants selling alcohol are licenced by local authorities?

196782 ▶▶▶ Commander Jameson, replying to karenovirus, 5, #66 of 2184 🔗

All of them are subject to the whims of 101 different flavours of prodnose inspectors. In my country they come around the offices every year to do ergonomic crap. One year we have to buy everyone monitor stands, the next we have to take them away. Some people like them so we hide them when the inspector calls.

196254 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 37, #67 of 2184 🔗

Wales is to go into lockdown? That’s bad news. Very, very bad news. Because what’s going to happen is cases are going to go down because they’re already going down. And when that happens, it will be used as incontrovertible proof that lockdowns are the best and only means to stop the virus and we all go into lockdown.

196288 ▶▶ john, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 36, #68 of 2184 🔗

I think that is the root of the problems. Governments can see the cases are naturally declining and are desperate to take any action that will enable them to say that they fixed the problem…hence the desperation to force lockdowns on the North – and then get the credit later…

196416 ▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to john, 4, #69 of 2184 🔗

Correct, this is their only strategy. This is the real game of whack-a-mole.

196647 ▶▶▶ Marvin42, replying to john, 1, #70 of 2184 🔗

I think you have hit the nail on the head with that…

196428 ▶▶ S1722, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 10, #71 of 2184 🔗

That’s my fear too. Utterly chilling to think that a UK Government might lock up millions of its citizens for the opportunity to spin some PR. That really would be the stuff of Maduro and co.

196454 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to S1722, 6, #72 of 2184 🔗

It’s what they have been doing since they put Leicester into lockdown lite.

196849 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 10, #73 of 2184 🔗

Yes this makes sense. Unfortunately, it’s a win-win situation for the Govt. In that we all know the numbers are bollocks they can either claim that the ‘circuit-breaker’ worked or, if they choose, they can massively up the testing, fiddle the figures on who-died-of-what even more and then claim they need to extend the lockdown because ‘cases’ are rising again.

Either way, it has never been about a virus. These lockdowns are solely to trash the economy, see off more people with lockdown deaths and completely demoralization the rest of us.

What beats me is that so few people can read a bloody graph, therefore continue to believe this shit. MW

196884 ▶▶ porgycorgy, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 3, #74 of 2184 🔗

Yes, we’ll all agree that one. With infection rates falling, it’s the ideal time to establish lockdowns and then say they work. Extra flexibility over time scales can be gained by manipulating testing and other figures. Without them, the governments of the UK will risk being exposed as the fraudulent liars that they are. And if infections rise, regardless, they can just sy they didn’t lock down soon enough or hard enough.

196256 JailDrakefordNow, replying to JailDrakefordNow, 13, #75 of 2184 🔗

This image is going around:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EkqdkzpXEAAMkf6?format=jpg&name=900×900

Think it is quite a good description of the situation. Even if hospitals were going to be overwhelmed by covid (they never have been, they can’t be, covid is just too mild for that) it still couldn’t justify the lockdowns and business closures.

196637 ▶▶ Mark, replying to JailDrakefordNow, 14, #76 of 2184 🔗

Reminds me that people used to say approvingly: “It’s better to live one day as a lion, than a thousand years as a lamb.”

When the crunch came, it turned out most people preferred the idea of living 83 years as sheep than 81 years as free men and women.

196689 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to JailDrakefordNow, 11, #77 of 2184 🔗

this image

196707 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Victoria, 6, #78 of 2184 🔗

Too many people unfortunately prefer the life of security behind bars.

In the end they will lose that as well of course.

196257 Ceriain, replying to Ceriain, 6, #79 of 2184 🔗

I posted this in yesterday’s forum in a reply to @Basics; he was looking for some discharge info. I think it’s worth posting here again for more to see. The numbers and visuals about appointments and patient numbers (2nd link below) will stun you, possibly make you angry.

Not sure if you can find what you need by sifting through this site:

https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/data-tools-and-services/data-services/hospital-episode-statistics

While you are looking, have a look at these figures on here: Provisional Monthly Hospital Episode Statistics for Admitted Patient Care and Outpatients Dashboard

https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiNjYzNjJmNmMtMmQ0Zi00MDAyLTkzNjEtMTFhYTI2YWQ4MDFlIiwidCI6IjUwZjYwNzFmLWJiZmUtNDAxYS04ODAzLTY3Mzc0OGU2MjllMiIsImMiOjh9

The graphs and numbers for 2020 will disgust you.

196312 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Ceriain, 3, #80 of 2184 🔗

OK I admit it I have looked at both your links and am not sure what I am supposed to make of them? Can you provide any interpretation?
I tend to use the NHS dashboard
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/healthcare
This is a summary of NHS information, even then it does not give discharges. I take the simple approach of looking at the dashboard data for a given time period.

So a couple of days ago I came up with;
Looking at NHS England covid stats for the last 7 days for which records are available;
Total admissions 4613
Number of cases in hospital increased from 3225 to 4814 increase of 1589
Total deaths for last 7 days 479
(I know analysis of deaths should be around 3 weeks after admissions but there is only so much number crunching I can do!)
That leaves a discrepancy in the figures of 2545 in the absence of any other explanation this figure must be discharges i.e. 364 covid discharges per day.

I understand that admissions data can be suspected as one person can count as more than one admission if they move to a different area of the hospital. The Government are keen to focus on admissions data as it gives some big scary numbers, mind you if you then do an analysis as above, you get bigger discharge figures which does not support their scare stories.

196316 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Steve Martindale, 6, #81 of 2184 🔗

Mental picture of hospital porters frantically pushing people in wheelchairs from one area to another, while a stooge clicks one of those little counters.

‘399, 400, 401… that’s enough for today.’

196335 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #82 of 2184 🔗

The hospitalization figures are easy to pump up just by sending people in who don’t need to be there but that lie fails when they don’t die.

197179 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #83 of 2184 🔗

Hi Steve, I, too, haven’t found it easy to find overall discharge numbers for the NHS either.

However, the October 2020 COVID Publication found on this page https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-hospital-activity/ gives discharge numbers for Covid-19 patients up to the end of September, if that helps you.

The 2nd link I posted above allows the reader to see the impact of the NHS concentrating on Covid-19, e.g. massive drops in consultant appointments, ordinary hospital admissions, day case appointments, emergency admissions, etc .

I find the drops in these figures quite scary; the future effect of all those people who would have been seen, or treated, but weren’t, will be appaling.

196258 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 59, #84 of 2184 🔗

Why Does Hancock Want to Lock Up the North When Cases Are Falling?

Umm… because they are falling. What would be the point to issue a lockdown when the numbers are going up? They would still be going up and you’d look like an idiot. But instate a lock down when they’re falling, and you can claim that it was your lockdown that lowered numbers.

196264 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 10, #85 of 2184 🔗

If any of them had any sense they would use this to claim Victory in time to save Xmas but they’ve all got used to swanking around exercising their illegitimate power in thrall to numerous vested interests.

196332 ▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to karenovirus, 15, #86 of 2184 🔗

Why would they want victory? If we “defeated” a virus Hancock would go back to being a grey, unimportant little man. In his mind he is a mighty Covid warrior taking on the virus on behalf of his beloved people. Which politician wouldn’t want that?

196354 ▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Recusant, 15, #87 of 2184 🔗

“taking on the virus on behalf of his beloved people”

Correction

Taking on the people on behalf of the cabal.

196363 ▶▶▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to PastImperfect, 2, #88 of 2184 🔗

No, I think that in his head he is doing this for us, because he loves us and we need him. It wouldn’t be nearly so damaging if he was corrupt.

196747 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to Recusant, 16, #89 of 2184 🔗

I worked on FMD in 2001. There were people who were wetting themselves at the excitement of their lives, instead of being boring MAFF civil servants, going round counting farm animals. Some of them were even shown on Border TV news! Careers were made, people gave themselves ludicrously grandiose titles, such as Chef de Cabinet, and had little badges made and, once the Army became involved, started talking about ‘in peacetime’.

They love it. They’re all running around inside their own little bubble, feeding each other with the adrenalin and self importance of it all.

196262 JailDrakefordNow, replying to JailDrakefordNow, 15, #90 of 2184 🔗

This is one of the clearest warnings about the coronapanic that I’ve seen, doesn’t use any of the words which let the brainwashed label it as a “conspiracy theory”, but warns of the same threats nonetheless:
https://www.aier.org/article/will-things-ever-go-back-to-normal/
This time WE have to make it go back to normal, ourselves, somebody just show us how to start.

196505 ▶▶ LS99, replying to JailDrakefordNow, 1, #91 of 2184 🔗

Great article and Robert Higgs books look really interesting.

196617 ▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to JailDrakefordNow, 4, #92 of 2184 🔗

This should be compulsory reading for all lockdown zealots. But I’m also reminded that Income Tax was supposed to be a temporary measure to fund the Napoleonic wars and from Income Tax state intrusion into our daily lives has irrevocably increased.

197256 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JailDrakefordNow, 5, #93 of 2184 🔗

Meet your friends. Hug your family. Wear your smile with pride. Talk to people when the opportunity arises.

197863 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, #94 of 2184 🔗

That’s the way to do it.

196263 Cristi.Neagu, 25, #95 of 2184 🔗

The article continued: “Atlas’s views on how to deal with the virus have raised alarm in scientific circles. He has repeatedly cast doubt on masks and social distancing, and suggested people could gain natural self-defenses against the disease even without a vaccine through ‘herd immunity’.” Which “scientific circles”? All of them?

It’s climate change all over again. They block scientists that hold a dissenting opinion. They ridicule them and threaten anyone that would publicise their work. They completely erase them from public view. All so they can claim consensus in the scientific community.

196266 TT, replying to TT, 24, #96 of 2184 🔗

Great news here from Politburo Central (Brussels): hurrah for another lockdown !
Curfew will be in effect from midnight to 05:00am, working from home mandatory for everyone, mandatory mask regime in public transport and in all in-door public places (was already in effect since forever, May I think…). allowed to receive no more than four people at home (provided that they will be the same people for two weeks), and all cafes and restaurants in Belgium will be closed. The authorities “were forced to introduce such measures due to the worsening situation with the spread of COVID-19”, our minister explained. Over the past two weeks, “the number of new cases of COVID-19 has increased by 182 percent”. They add that we are now at 10 327 fatal cases (the count was at about 10.000 by end of August, with a large majority being 85+ and most having died in the ‘suspect’ period of Mar-May – 327 extra deaths since then, from beginning of September till now, means on average 6 or 7 deaths per day, but apparently that is all it takes to set the merry-go-round of autodestruction spinning all over again).
So much for the pity party… should go to sleep, but I dread the prospect of waking up again !

196268 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to TT, 10, #97 of 2184 🔗

I thought your government said they were going to stop using ‘case’ numbers to dictate policy.

196271 ▶▶▶ TT, replying to Ceriain, 18, #98 of 2184 🔗

As usual, they lied… (and they have been touting the 7 or 8 deaths/day lately, on a popuplation of 11.5 million, as a disaster of biblical proportions).

196273 ▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to TT, 10, #99 of 2184 🔗

Yeah, I think we know the feeling. 🙁

196304 ▶▶ annie, replying to TT, 26, #100 of 2184 🔗

Awake as a strong person determined to see the villains hanged. Don’t let them beat you. I’m in Gulag Wales and they aren’t going to beat me.

196309 ▶▶▶ maggie may, replying to annie, 15, #101 of 2184 🔗

Ann you are a shining beacon of non-conformity for everyone, every time i read your comments i feel a bit more optimistic!

196314 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to maggie may, 28, #102 of 2184 🔗

Glad to hear it.
Actually I feel fine today on my own account. It’s the businesses going bust that distress me, except the squalid little shops sporting instructions to wear your mask CORRECTLY. Now they can go bust. CORRECTLY.
On with the sticker campaign!

196336 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to maggie may, 1, #103 of 2184 🔗

🌝

196267 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #104 of 2184 🔗

Just posted this on yesterdays page, reposting here as people don’t tend to look at previous pages (well I don’t anyway).

I’m struggling to get my head around what this article means when it says 10% of people are responsible for 80% of transmission.
They try to explain it here:

Simply put, overdispersion means that a minority of infected individuals are responsible for an unexpectedly high percentage of transmission. Overdispersion is often reported as the proportion of infected individuals who cause 80% of transmission. For Sars-CoV-2, this value may be 10% or lower. So, while on average a group of 10 infected individuals might cause 25 secondary infections, just one of those originally infected might infect 20 people, while the remaining nine combine to infect only five.

So for all infections the ratio must be the same or similar in order to preserve the overall ratio. That would mean all secondary infections would follow the same pattern of transmission right? In the example above, 10% of the 25 secondary infections, lets round up to 3, would be superspreaders infecting 60 more people whilst the 22 remaining people only go on to infect 15 and so on. I know that the numbers would be based on some sort of average but if I try to visualise this happening across a population it just doesn’t seem right to me.

Anybody feel like trying to enlighten me on this?

Understanding how ‘overdispersion’ works is key to controlling Covid
As few as 10% of people are responsible for 80% of transmission – and that must shape how we tackle this virus

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/19/overdispersion-spreads-covid-transmission-virus?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

196270 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #105 of 2184 🔗

I only got a pass at ‘O’ level Stats but seem to remember that 10-80 proportion is common for many things like 10% of criminals responsible for 80% of crime or (made up but not unlikely) 10% of footballers scoring 80% of goals.

196327 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to karenovirus, 6, #106 of 2184 🔗

Pareto principle 80/20 rule .

197275 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #107 of 2184 🔗

So, in the case of covid, it’s another statistic pulled out of their arse, rather than from empirical evidence?

197457 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #108 of 2184 🔗

Not at all. There’s quite a lot of work on how social networks develop. Infections like this tend to spread person-to-person,

196329 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #109 of 2184 🔗

I think you have to take opportunity into account, a person capable of being a ‘super-spreader’ can only spread the disease if they come into contact with enough non-immune people. So that a ‘super-spreader’ has the potential but will not actually infect anyone unless they have the opportunity.
In a way it is a bit like a chain letter but it needs the chain to continue, I think that is where some of the thinking behind herd immunity comes in?

196540 ▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #110 of 2184 🔗

That’s correct, if a super spreader comes across people already immune they won’t catch it. The superspreader model is that of an ultra sociable person going out everyday and meeting lots of people who are all susceptible. And eventually enough people have had it that it’s difficult to spread it further.
Vaccination relies on conferring this immunity. So will natural spread of disease, but the lockdown wonks tell us that naturally acquired immunity wears off so the vaccination is better. I have my doubts about that.

196655 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to thinkaboutit, 2, #111 of 2184 🔗

They started going on about infected immunity wearing off soon into lockdown without suggesting why it would.

197279 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to karenovirus, 2, #112 of 2184 🔗

Locked us down in an attempt to make sure immunity couldn’t spread in the first place.

196829 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #113 of 2184 🔗

I’m yet to see any evidence that these “super spreaders” exist. Nor infection by asymptomatic individuals at all. In fact, no evidence that they are even detecting actual infectious individuals.

I think it’s all just a ruse to control us by trying to make out that you need to be fearful of everyone, and take ridiculous steps such as wearing face rags to protect others.

196880 ▶▶ D B, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #114 of 2184 🔗

Sounds like another way to say “those pesky anti-maskers are causing all covid transmission”

197116 ▶▶▶ xplod, replying to D B, 1, #115 of 2184 🔗

This link is to an obscure YouTube site in the US, but often displays little nuggets!
This one is about how up to 85% of covid infections are mask wearers! Lasts about 15 minutes, all info from the US CDC, hidden away in one of their reports.
https://youtu.be/BOovHHOgkUI

196269 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #116 of 2184 🔗

Hi all

I need to produce a leaflet for our first public display on Thursday.

I have lots of ideas but if there were three top “facts” that we would like to get across to newly doubting people what would they be?

Cases not real
Virus not as deadly as thought
False positives
Lockdowns don’t work

Etc

Etc

Please give me your top three. Ideally provide some text as well.

Thanks

LT

196272 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Lockdown Truth, 9, #117 of 2184 🔗

False positives might be a bit complicated as an introduction.

I might ask two questions
1. Do you know anybody who has died OF Covid?
2. Do you know anybody who has lost their job or been denied NHS service because of lockdown ?

196310 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 22, #118 of 2184 🔗

Be careful with the first question. Every zombie knows somebody who knows somebody whose deceased sister’s second cousin twice removed died of Covid not once, but many times.

196311 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 9, #119 of 2184 🔗

Like that lady early in lockdown who claimed 3 close relatives had died of the Covid.
Attention seeking at its worst.

196621 ▶▶▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to karenovirus, 3, #120 of 2184 🔗

Wasn’t there a woman on the tube verbaliising a maskless bloke because 6! of her relatives had died of, with, because of coroni ?

196657 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to David Grimbleby, 1, #121 of 2184 🔗

Something like that but I don’t watch telly so didn’t see it.

196398 ▶▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to annie, 3, #122 of 2184 🔗

‘and he wasn’t very old or in bad health, as far as I have heard’

196506 ▶▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to annie, 1, #123 of 2184 🔗

Wow..that’s me! How did you guess!

196455 ▶▶▶ Nsklent, replying to karenovirus, 9, #124 of 2184 🔗

Include the number of suicides and people denied healthcare-get the the damning message over that your ‘loved ones’ are at a real risk from the NHS not delivering a service through deliberate or poor organisation. The psychological impacts on children having social distancing drilled into them and mask wearing – health and psychological impacts. The analogy of more chance of being killed in a car accident than Covid, lightning if a child.
Define proportionate, then compare with the current response to a virus that doesn’t kill 99.6% of people, average age of deaths 82.4 years. Quote the usual daily deaths, 1600, so around 45,000 a month, that should put some perspective on things, and world deaths from TB, malaria, poor sanitation etc.

196667 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Nsklent, 2, #125 of 2184 🔗

That’s the sort of information you need to have to hand once Lockdown Truths leaflet (start thread) gains their interest.

450 deaths from cancer daily.
24 other things more likely to kill you this month.

That kind of stuff.

196735 ▶▶▶ Graham, replying to karenovirus, 2, #126 of 2184 🔗

I agree that the first question is not necessarily a great idea. My wife and I are strong lockdown sceptics (manic, swivel-eyed, etc., no doubt) but we do know someone who died of Covid. She was obese and diabetic. It’s a tragedy, but individual tragedies don’t change facts or logic.

196885 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to karenovirus, 2, #127 of 2184 🔗

Do you know anybody who has died OF Covid?
this is THE WORSE QUESTION EVER. Avoid it like the Rona plague.

Everybody knows somebody who has died of it. COVID victims are local legends.

Perhaps it is better to initially ask people if they are shielding and if they have known anybody who died of it. Then go all sympathetic and ask what happened. You will find that the deceased will have been old ill with loads of other stuff and nearly dead anyway in. Don’t point that out thought, they know thier story of covid death is weak in most cases.

Once that bomb is diffused then you can go onto to talk about other stuff. They have shot their load, so to speak, peaked too early. Spent. Errr Spa….no hehe

197552 ▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Two-Six, 2, #128 of 2184 🔗

I don’t know anyone. I have a suicide in the family from lockdown, but don’t know a single ACTUAL covid illness.

196274 ▶▶ TT, replying to Lockdown Truth, 8, #129 of 2184 🔗

The argument that there is no real difference with the flu always did it for me (despite all the shouting to the contrary – a quick glance at flu stats for the bad 2018 season in the UK will certainly provide useful supporting material). Why suddenly destroy society (which doesn’t even help) over something we hardly even noticed until less than a year ago?

196276 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Lockdown Truth, 20, #130 of 2184 🔗

1. If masks are so effective at capturing cv19, why are they not treated as clinical waste?

2. Why for the first 18 weeks of this pandemic were we not advised to wear masks?

3. If masks are so critical why are government not advising we wear a specific type of mask rather than anything over our faces?

196279 ▶▶▶ Judy Watson, replying to Dave #KBF, 16, #131 of 2184 🔗

Also if masks are so wonderful why cannot hospital inpatients have visitors if they are wearing masks. I have said since March that they are useless.

196376 ▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Judy Watson, 6, #132 of 2184 🔗

To which the answer is the ‘Swiss cheese’ defence – wearing a gimp gag, shunning your family and rubbing dog dirt into your gums all contribute, but you have no right to rely on any one of these measures. No no no. Each one just gives a layer of protection. Safety comes only when you do everything you are told. And then, actually, you are not safe – it’s just that you are then allowed to blame the naughty sceptics rather than yourself if you get ill.

196631 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #133 of 2184 🔗

Just received a leaflet from a local animal sanctuary. a new threat to British wildlife.. you can guess..

196668 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to David Grimbleby, #134 of 2184 🔗

Hibernating masks ?

196730 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #135 of 2184 🔗

…and keep banging on about Sweden.

A country in Western Europe with several big cities where people are just walking around normally.

If this ‘disease’ is the same thing in the UK as in Sweden, then how can that possibly be.

196278 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Lockdown Truth, 18, #136 of 2184 🔗
  1. Did you know that since the Covid-19 bollocks started 99.9356% of the UK population haven’t died?
196284 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Ceriain, 9, #137 of 2184 🔗

Edit: Did you know that since the Covid-19 bollocks started 99.9356% of the UK population haven’t died… of Covid-19?

196283 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Lockdown Truth, 12, #138 of 2184 🔗

Neurologically speaking, the brain does not process negatives. This is why telling someone “don’t worry!” doesn’t work – it just triggers the response to the word “worry”. You are also on a hiding to nothing about masks, because positions on both sides are so entrenched. So fight their doom statistics. Give recovery numbers. Tell people what the chances are that someone over 80, even with comorbidities, who catches covid will recover (85%). And maybe give the dates of the case peaks in March to show they were before lockdown.

196469 ▶▶▶ Nsklent, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 3, #139 of 2184 🔗

Or change the language to, ‘I bet you didn’t know, or did you know that 99.9% of people remained healthy, unaffected’ or similar. It’s a bit like saying, ‘I can’t tell you it will be easy,’ will focus your brain on the positive easy, rather than saying, ‘it wont be easy.’

196334 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Lockdown Truth, 9, #140 of 2184 🔗

Some recent surveys suggested that most people have no idea how many people die per week in the normal course of events and that most people hugely over-estimate how many people have died from/with covid.
At the present time, even with all the dodgy data, covid related deaths are a small proportion of total deaths
Also, people seem unaware that your likelihood of dying from covid follows the same graph of your likelihood of dying from anything so that below the age of 65 your chances of dying from covid or anything are quite low.

196341 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #141 of 2184 🔗

A while back someone quoted 7% of the population dying from the Covid, they rethought that when told that would be the whole of London.

196353 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Steve Martindale, 9, #142 of 2184 🔗

I caught someone saying the other day “well, 1,500 people normally die every week anyway.”

I had to stop them and point out that was a daily number.

196736 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #143 of 2184 🔗

Yes- start by asking people what proportion of the population they think have died from Covid.

Then, give the officail figure.

Then segue into ‘with’ versus ‘of’

197384 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Steve Martindale, #144 of 2184 🔗

Yes this was something I’d never really thought about until the covid panic started.

1600 + 1 is not that different from 1600

196358 ▶▶ DeepBlueYonder, replying to Lockdown Truth, 10, #145 of 2184 🔗

Encourage people to consider whether the response of our government is in proportion to the threat. I think this is one of our strongest arguments and does not alienate people who genuinely consider that cornavirus / Covid-19 is much more threatening to life than it actually is. We need to encourage people to think through whether the response to the virus has been in proportion to the threat.

I would focus on providing some very dry, hopefully uncontroversial data. eg.

1. The population of England and Wales in mid-2019 was 59,439,840.

2. The number of deaths registered in England and Wales each year is between 500,000 and 550,000. In 2018, for example, it was 541,589, so around 1,484 deaths every day, on average.

In that year, dementia and Alzheimer disease was the leading cause of death, accounting for 69,000 deaths.

3. The number of deaths in the England and Wales this year (between 28 December, 2019 until 2 October, 2020) where deaths “involved” Covid-19 was 52,592. (This does not mean that Covid-19 directly caused each of these deaths. But it may have contributed to it).

4. In June, 2020 the UK went into a recession. As at the end of July, 2020 the measures taken by the government to support businesses, workers and household incomes may increase the UK’s debt by £190 billion. That amount of money is more than the is spent in a whole year on health and social care (£140 billion). This additional debt will need be repaid by us, and even our children and their children.

Please ask yourself whether the government’s response to coronavirus/Covid-19 been in proportion?

[I have focused on England and Wales – apologies for that – as it is not always easy to obtain UK-wide figures].

196808 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to DeepBlueYonder, #146 of 2184 🔗

Very good. I have been planning a leaflet, too, and was wondering the same as the original question.

196528 ▶▶ RichT, replying to Lockdown Truth, 6, #147 of 2184 🔗

6 out 7 over 90’s survive. Not great of odds maybe but at 90+ you are very susceptible to most viruses and just about everything else.

196574 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Lockdown Truth, 8, #148 of 2184 🔗

Virus is equivalent to flu. (Several top scientists have said this).
Masks don’t work . Other than as symbols of compliance/subjugation.
They’re not ‘cases’, they’re positive results from a discredited testing mechanism.

196669 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to JohnB, 4, #149 of 2184 🔗

Cases = Positive PCR test ( + 80% false positive rate)

196675 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Victoria, 2, #150 of 2184 🔗

Which figure THEY use to justify not testing people returning from abroad.

196583 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #151 of 2184 🔗

I would start with the false positives, because these are what the government is basing its whole disastrous policy on.

State the fact that these false positives are lumped in with the reported ‘cases’. Dispel the common idea that ‘cases’ are hospitalisations.

Look at actual deaths from Covid (not with) across the country – it’s deaths, not cases, that are the figure to look for.

Lastly, ask why flu deaths seem to have disappeared and highlight that the government has now lumped these together (see Ivor Cummins).

The key to getting across any information is to ensure people learn the three things you want them to, so keep it very simple. I say this as someone who has worked in public engagement.

196676 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Lockdown Truth, 3, #152 of 2184 🔗

Lockdowns = businesses close forever
Covid only NHS, no treatment for you
Hospitals are empty
Jobs lost forever

196725 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #153 of 2184 🔗

repeat the cancer deaths (is it 450 a day) and then point out the thousands that have not been diagnosed or have had treatment suspended which will kill many more and that is so bad that not only did the NHS have to start TV adverts a couple of weeks ago to get people to visit the covid only NHS when they suspect a potential cancer symptom but just noticed CRUK have also had to start TV adverts which specifically tell people that the NHS IS open and your doctor will SEE you.

197385 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mjr, 1, #154 of 2184 🔗

Except that many doctors won’t!
But what’s another lie among so many?

197189 ▶▶ Coronabonus, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #155 of 2184 🔗

Virus gonna virus.

A good conversation starter? You can talk about Hope-Simpson, the Gompertz Curve, Ivor Cummins and his brilliant analysis, etc.

197546 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #156 of 2184 🔗

I would go with Lockdowns Don’t Work, because it’s easily proven to the sane, exposes the media narrative in a subtle way and doesn’t confront anyone still petrified of the virus. Question why do we care more about a covid death than a cancer death. Or better yet – why we care more about our deaths than the 100 million (I can’t recall the exact number, but it was absurd) of people who are going to starve to death because of this bullshit impacting the third world. It manipulates the moral high ground, which – of course – is all these cock wombles care about. Moral Superiority. They will flock where ever they perceive the greatest possible Smug Factor.

They are Useful Idiots…. so use them.

(Sorry for typos)

196281 NorthumbrianNomad, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 40, #157 of 2184 🔗

York University, after notifying students that it required them to burn to death rather than risk passing on an asymptomatic virus within a healthy population: “ We take the health and safety of our students and staff extremely seriously.”
I suggest that any organisation that still pumps out this revolting, meaningless, toxic soundbite should be persecuted until it dies.

196285 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 11, #158 of 2184 🔗

Somebody at York University needs a slap.
Advice at ours to isolating students specifically allows them to ignore isolation rules if they or others are in danger.

196305 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 9, #159 of 2184 🔗

Somebody there needs to go to prison for conspiracy to murder.

196313 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 12, #160 of 2184 🔗

The Americans have a good crime for that 🚔
Reckless Endangerment.

196991 ▶▶▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to annie, 3, #161 of 2184 🔗

If a fire actually happened, and a quarantined student died, it would be corporate manslaughter.

196584 ▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to karenovirus, 2, #162 of 2184 🔗

Which is what it says in government advice also, e.g.you can be maskless in am emergency situation.

196339 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 14, #163 of 2184 🔗

This may relate to the news that university students trapped in halls of residence have worked out that one way of escaping is to set off the fire alarm. Pleased to see that they have the nous to work that out, come on students everywhere set off your fire alarms, you have nothing to loose and you might get some fresh air before you are rounded up again!

196344 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #164 of 2184 🔗

Years ago the fire brigade got really annoyed with the University because every time an alarm went of at a Halls they had to send a tender and the ladder vehicle.
False alarms were much reduced by banning toasters.

196409 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 3, #165 of 2184 🔗

Perhaps all the students should collectively sue them and asset strip the university so they go bust.

I seriously doubt they care about the health & safety of their staff and students. This is arse covering nothing else.

196286 NorthumbrianNomad, 18, #166 of 2184 🔗

Politicians falling over themselves to kill their cities, and the population cheering them on and screaming at them to go further, is the cherry on the nightmare Union Jack sponge cake my psychotic Great Aunt Euphemia has been forcing into my mouth since the Scottish independence referendum. I’m losing the will to keep spitting it out. I hope I’m right and it’s laced with hemlock.

196287 john, replying to john, 25, #167 of 2184 🔗

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/19/co-author-anti-lockdowns-letter-appeared-far-right-radio-show-martin-kulldorff-great-barrington-declaration-richie-allen-show

I too used to be a Guardian reader – but not anymore – smear campaigns such as this against anyone with a different perspective are simply unacceptable…

196324 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to john, 10, #168 of 2184 🔗

Not to mention the anti-semitism and racist cartoons (Priti Patel etc…). Kept alive by ‘tax efficient’ sale of Auto Trader through Cayman Islands.

196417 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to john, 8, #169 of 2184 🔗

Same here. Used to read the Guardian but the constant sanctimonious op-ed pieces and their hypocrisy put me off.

196601 ▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Bart Simpson, 10, #170 of 2184 🔗

I was once watching a video of someone explaining why they’d left the Guardian. Son walks into room, conversation as follows
Me: (pointing to screen) “He’s explaining why he left the Guardian…”
Son: (instant response) “Because they’re all sanctimonious tw*ts?”

197002 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to thinkaboutit, 1, #171 of 2184 🔗

He’s not wrong there!

197727 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #172 of 2184 🔗

Lots of us Guardian refugees here!

196289 polistra, replying to polistra, 23, #173 of 2184 🔗

Let’s call it by an even better name. A civilization breaker. A humanity breaker. A science breaker. A universe breaker. A genocide.

Or the best name of all: Viagra for psychopathic leaders.

196297 ▶▶ ColoradoGirl, replying to polistra, 13, #174 of 2184 🔗

Economy breaker.

197729 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to ColoradoGirl, #175 of 2184 🔗

Business breaker.

197874 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to ConstantBees, #176 of 2184 🔗

Thanks for all the above ideas, I’ve made them into a poster in my car back window!

196291 ColoradoGirl, replying to ColoradoGirl, 19, #178 of 2184 🔗

At the school where I teach, we have already had two socially distanced fire drills. And yes, it takes a lot longer to evacuate. I pray common sense or instincts take over if there is ever a real fire.

196293 ▶▶ Gillian, replying to ColoradoGirl, 10, #179 of 2184 🔗

I suppose the burnt corpses recovered from the fire would at least test negative for coronavirus.

196296 ▶▶▶ ColoradoGirl, replying to Gillian, 4, #180 of 2184 🔗

There has not been a single case at my school.

196373 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Gillian, #181 of 2184 🔗

😂

197408 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Gillian, #182 of 2184 🔗

Don’t bet on it!

196302 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to ColoradoGirl, 18, #183 of 2184 🔗

A socially distanced school fire drill. We have a new reference point for “the height of absurdity”. Congratulations, ColoradoGirl, you win the internet. Unfortunately it’s a bit like that “oldest person in the world dies” headline – you know there’s another one coming along in a minute… This will, however, take some beating.

196338 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 7, #184 of 2184 🔗

After almost 72 years on this planet, I thought I’d heard it all!!!
Sheer unadulterated insanity.

196323 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to ColoradoGirl, 5, #185 of 2184 🔗

At my prep school 55+ years ago the headmaster told one of the boys to stay behind in the school during fire drill to check that everyone was on their toes at roll call. That was a different world and it certainly feels that way.

196351 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 11, #186 of 2184 🔗

The world changes and always has – but what is odd to me about the changed world of today is that everything is now being built on lies. In other words, these are pathological changes, not normal historical evolution. Such changes cannot be sustainable and must surely lead to an explosion the like of which has not been seen before, except perhaps in 1789.

196746 ▶▶▶▶ Dr Downunder, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 2, #187 of 2184 🔗

Our leaders have been bought to engineer the controlled demolition of the old world of free people in a free society. Behold the panopticon of total control.

These changes are demoralising and destabilising by design. Yuri Bezmenov’s lectures on YouTube express this very eloquently. They must be resisted not just by reasoned argument but by rhetorical appeal to beauty, heroism and virtue. If only we had not lost Sir Roger Scruton last year….

196420 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to ColoradoGirl, 2, #188 of 2184 🔗

Fire drills half the time are useless and are simply box ticking exercises. If there’s an actual fire, common sense usually takes over.

196529 ▶▶ Foxglove, replying to ColoradoGirl, 5, #189 of 2184 🔗

It took even longer at my daughter’s school as the teachers told the pupils to put on their masks before leaving the room.Some had to waste vital minutes going back to their bags to retrieve them from wherever they had been stuffed. This wasn’t a fire drill either, someone had accidentally set the alarm off but this was only found out later.

196644 ▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Foxglove, 4, #190 of 2184 🔗

That might be illegal as well as stupid. The government mask exemption guidelines state a mask exemption applies if:

“to avoid harm or injury, or the risk of harm or injury, to yourself or others ‒ including if it would negatively impact on your ability to exercise or participate in a strenuous activity”

I think running out of a burning building comes into that category.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own

The page on Education states:

“This is guidance, not mandatory activity, and any legal exemptions that apply to the wearing of face coverings in shops and on public transport also apply to this new advice.”

196662 ▶▶▶▶ Foxglove, replying to thinkaboutit, 5, #191 of 2184 🔗

That is exactly what my daughter said very loudly as she exited without a mask (she doesn’t actually own one) but it sums up the brainwashing that has taken place in schools.

197115 ▶▶ microdave, replying to ColoradoGirl, 3, #192 of 2184 🔗

Socially distanced fire drills

And yes, it takes a lot longer to evacuate

Have all the worlds airworthiness authorities extended the permissible time by which every passenger should be able to escape from a commercial airliner, in the event of an emergency? One wonders how many would have drowned when Sully put his Airbus down in the Hudson, if that sort of bollocks was in force…

196292 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 42, #193 of 2184 🔗

After this is all over, I hope that none of us forget what the government has inflicted on the people. In addition to criminal responsibility being assigned (after due process of law) onto individuals (so far as possible), a good outcome would be a law that no lockdown (defined as any restriction of normal freedoms) can be imposed due to a public health situation on either the whole country, or a part of the country, without a vote of at least 80% of the House of Commons. The power to impose lockdowns should be specifically removed from the devolved governments and reserved to Westminster.

196299 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Gillian, 24, #194 of 2184 🔗

That’s why neither UK or USA described it as Quarantine as that would have required both countries to proceed according to pre-arranged protocols, provide compensation and probably require oversight.

196306 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 8, #195 of 2184 🔗

That’s a very interesting comment!

196318 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to karenovirus, 6, #196 of 2184 🔗

The individual states of USA (rather than USA, not a federal lockdown) many with political motives to make Orange Man seem bad.

196308 ▶▶ annie, replying to Gillian, 7, #198 of 2184 🔗

Why should anybody have that power?

196423 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Gillian, 11, #199 of 2184 🔗

A letter was leaked yesterday in which German civil servants in Berlin asked the Senate there to urgently pass a law that indemnifies them for any actions they took duringbthe pandemic.
CYA has started, so they know they screwed it up and that what they are doing now isn’t working.

197594 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Gillian, 3, #200 of 2184 🔗

“After” all this?? That’s so cute… you actually think it’s going to end!

2020 will be fondly remembered as the good days.

196294 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 40, #201 of 2184 🔗

The dictator knows this is not for two weeks. We know it is not for two weeks. The dictator knows that we know this is not for two weeks

This is about a sadist seizing the opportunity to hurt people

If the common cold has not been eradicated in two weeks we will be punished further

Time to fight back

196307 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, 4, #202 of 2184 🔗

When does Rishi turn off the furlough hose?

196343 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to annie, 7, #203 of 2184 🔗

When does the world financial system give up its belief in the gold-plated reliability of the UK and start turning the screws whether any politician likes it or not?

196347 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 8, #204 of 2184 🔗

UK gets cheap loans because we, unlike most European countries, have not renaged on our sovereign debt for three hundred years or more. I wonder how long that reputation will last.

196434 ▶▶▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to karenovirus, 1, #205 of 2184 🔗
196422 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, 6, #206 of 2184 🔗

End of October, only 11 days to go.

196569 ▶▶▶▶ LS99, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #207 of 2184 🔗

It’s a full blue moon too!

196515 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Cecil B, 4, #208 of 2184 🔗

Well Ireland have just declared full lockdown for 6 weeks ..or maybe longer , who knows? Depends how they feel about it .. We are next , god help us!

196295 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 12, #209 of 2184 🔗

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8856835/Nicola-Sturgeon-warns-Scots-circuit-breaker-lockdown-stay-place-foreseeable-future.html

Surprise, surprise, the ‘temporary’ circuit breaker will be extended.

The Holyrood Dominatrix is on a roll now and there’s no end in sight.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/10/19/the-danger-of-scientific-dogmatism/

Worth reading.

196317 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to wendyk, 5, #210 of 2184 🔗

“She can bile her hied” has a certain LS friend been on the comments?

196321 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to karenovirus, 1, #211 of 2184 🔗

Hasn’t been on for a couple of days has he?

196348 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to CGL, 1, #212 of 2184 🔗

He was briefly on late yesterday.

196349 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to wendyk, 1, #213 of 2184 🔗

Despicable.

196518 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to wendyk, 2, #214 of 2184 🔗

Forever as this virus will never be defeated and they are about 1-2 years away from vaccine…

196697 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Thomas_E, 2, #215 of 2184 🔗

BBC R4 news 9am Tuesday.
Discussing various attempts to develop a vaccine

“The Chinese have already made one which they are using ON their population”.

Odd choice of words.

196719 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to karenovirus, 2, #216 of 2184 🔗

Probably Tibetans and Uighurs.

196744 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to karenovirus, 2, #217 of 2184 🔗

i heard that is was to be used on the army (so no choice there) and students who wanted to study overseas.
Actually, now that covid is no longer a pandemic (despite what the MSM and government think) isn’t injecting a new virus into thousands of students and then sending them all over the world to study an excellent way of spreading an updated virus (covid 20?) so the CCP can continue their plan to ruin the west?

196717 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Thomas_E, 3, #218 of 2184 🔗

If she suspends next year’s elections, claiming ‘exceptional circumstances’, we’ll never be rid of her and her cronies.

She could just stay on and on and on and on-all in the name of ‘staying safe’ and ‘shielding the vulnerable’.

My worst fears are growing.

197695 ▶▶ GorbalsGirl, replying to wendyk, 1, #219 of 2184 🔗

It was obvious that wee Krankie would never allow Scotland to be outdone by Wales or Ireland in the political purity stakes! Not when she’s still suckling on the Bank of England’s teat and waging a moral war on Scottish pubs. I guess once the Scottish economy has totally collapsed after Christmas then there’s no further damage she can inflict with her indy ambitions? A win-win for her and her nutjob cult.

197907 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to GorbalsGirl, 1, #220 of 2184 🔗

The Scottish Neverending Party.

The Saint Nicola Party

196298 karenovirus, 6, #221 of 2184 🔗

Hey Dom, remember the speech that old duffer Chamberlain made when he stitched up Czecho ? I’ve cribbed it a bit, what do you think ? 📺

“Tomorrow Parliament is going to meet and I shall be making a full statement of the events which have led up to the present anxious and critical situation.
First I would like to thank those of you who have written to tell of your gratitude for my efforts and your prayers for my success…

But they thought too soon that the danger of Covid had passed. How terrible that we should be closing pubs and trying on masks again because of a virus from a faraway country of which we know little.

I can well understand why the leaders of Manchester City Council have felt unable to accept the terms put to them but from my conversations with Mr Vallence I feel certain that this is the end of Covids territorial advance through England.

So it’s tier three for you Andy, suck it up man”

‘Ending could do with tightening up Boris.’

196300 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 4, #222 of 2184 🔗

On the GBD, I would love it to be true but surely should read thousand rather than million?

“You can find it here. Please sign it. Now over five-and-a-half-a-million signatures, compared to the John Snow Memorandum’s 4,400. Embarrassing”.

196364 ▶▶ TJS123, replying to Sarigan, 3, #223 of 2184 🔗

I’m sure I read on here that it was half a million several days ago..so it might be possible!

196372 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to TJS123, 6, #224 of 2184 🔗

It’s over half a million now.
We do NOT help our cause by publishing false statistics. Leave that game to our enemies.

197738 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Sarigan, 1, #225 of 2184 🔗

Concerned citizens

550,745

Medical & public health scientists

10,842

Medical practitioners

30,129

196301 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 4, #226 of 2184 🔗

Labour MP yesterday spouted lies about hospitals in Wales being 75% full which was double what it was last year. Really?

https://twitter.com/statsjamie/status/1318298512841449472?s=21

196371 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Sarigan, 4, #227 of 2184 🔗

People need to ask questions and not blindly accept everything they are told!

196418 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Sarigan, 3, #228 of 2184 🔗

Haven’t seen any photos of queues of ambulances outside our local hospital this year, which is the usual state of affairs in the autumn and winter.

We are also having a brand new mega hospital opening in a couple of weeks, so bed capacity will be much higher than currently reported.

196425 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Sarigan, 12, #229 of 2184 🔗

Hospitals are always full. From my 20 years of nursing including ICU, ended 2000, wards were always busy, except possibly Christmas and other major holidays. The simple logic is if they didn’t need the beds they wouldn’t maintain the capacity – why would you have 10 ICU beds if you only needed 2, why build a 500 bed hospital if you need only 200 beds. This constant bemoaning hospitals are full, is once again language manipulation, distortion and fear mongering.

196709 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Nsklent, #230 of 2184 🔗

Hospital bed numbers have been declining ever since the formation of the NHS when they stood at some 100’s of thousands.

196756 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Sarigan, 2, #231 of 2184 🔗

worth watching the interview on Talk Radio (linked in the tweet), not only is Bryant talking shite, he is the most obnoxious person and resorts to insulting and abusing the interviewer

196895 ▶▶▶ Colin Watts, replying to mjr, 1, #232 of 2184 🔗

mtr. I wrote to Mr Bryant to convey what I thought of his performance on the Dan Wootten show.. This is the reply that I received:-
‘I have read all the material on the Barrington declaration and it is deeply flawed science which virtually every major epidemiologist has dismissed as dangerous. These are the people who said the virus would wear itself out by July, who promotes all sorts of treatments which haven’t worked and who claimed we should let the virus run so we acquire herd immunity even though there is no evidence that the virus dies confer immunity for more than a month or two. They also advocate virtually imprisoning the elderly and the vulnerable forgetting that it is phenomenally difficult to stop a virus leaching out into the community.
It’s true that I was a bit taken aback by his aggression so wasn’t at my most reasonable but I do think his views are dangerous,
All the best
Chris’

197221 ▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Colin Watts, #233 of 2184 🔗

He’s just made most of that up.

197516 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Colin Watts, 1, #234 of 2184 🔗

Chris Bryant:
aka Adam Hill?

196942 ▶▶▶ ericthebluet, replying to mjr, #235 of 2184 🔗

mjr. I wrote to Mr Bryant to convey more or less the same view as you. This is the reply that I received: –
‘I have read all the material on the Barrington declaration and it is deeply flawed science which virtually every major epidemiologist has dismissed as dangerous. These are the people who said the virus would wear itself out by July, who promotes all sorts of treatments which haven’t worked and who claimed we should let the virus run so we acquire herd immunity even though there is no evidence that the virus dies confer immunity for more than a month or two. They also advocate virtually imprisoning the elderly and the vulnerable forgetting that it is phenomenally difficult to stop a virus leaching out into the community.
It’s true that I was a bit taken aback by his aggression so wasn’t at my most reasonable but I do think his views are dangerous,
All the best
Chris’

196303 annie, replying to annie, 18, #236 of 2184 🔗

Take heart, fellow Welshies. Josef Stalin Dripfeed has virtually admitted that the prison sentence is unenforceable by police or ‘environmental officers’.

For some unfathomable reason this site won’t let me post this comment with a quote (bout of electronic vomiting?), but it’s all on Wales Online. We have to do our bit to keep the Gulag going.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/fire-break-lockdown-wales-coronavirus-19126990

And we will. Oh yes. Won’t we?

Sadly, the systematic murder of businesses is not so easily circumvented.

PS.Comments on Wales Online are almost uniformly hostile. And the more hostile, the more upticks.

PPS. ONE alleged Covideath in Wales yesterday.
‘Cases’ falling.

PPPS. The mayor of Cardiff has proved himself equal to the emergency by introducing antiracist indoctrination into schools.. Same website.

196315 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to annie, 13, #237 of 2184 🔗

In the last month South Wales Police, a force of 3000+ plus officers issued ONE fixed penalty notice

The revolution is beginning

The Welsh Ceaucescu is about to feel the wrath of the people

196320 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, 16, #238 of 2184 🔗

The memory of how the Romanians dealt with Ceaucescu is one I cherish.
There are quite a few Romanians in Wales who will be able to direct us.

196541 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to annie, 4, #239 of 2184 🔗

Romanians certainly know how to deal with the vampires who are sucking our country dry.

196319 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 5, #240 of 2184 🔗

No socially distanced halloween or bonfire night for you then.

196322 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 12, #241 of 2184 🔗

Nope, but they’re supposed to be letting us out just before Remembrance Sunday so’s we can celebrate the memory of those who died for our freedom.

196433 ▶▶▶▶ Melangell, replying to annie, 6, #242 of 2184 🔗

o the irony….

196342 ▶▶ l835, replying to annie, 4, #243 of 2184 🔗

No help for the self employed unless they pay business rates. Wish the WAG had an office round here, as it would be getting a brick through its window.

196345 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to annie, 3, #244 of 2184 🔗

Thoughts with you Annie. How are businesses feeling? Are they fighting back?

196368 ▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Country Mumkin, 22, #245 of 2184 🔗

I’m in SE Wales and the impression I get from social media and talking to real people, is that there is little support for the new lockdown. People are coming to terms with the fact that we are going to have to live with the virus and that the sooner we do that and get back to normal life the better.

At the hairdressers yesterday and the lady who did my hair – single mum, three young kids who is freelance/self employed and will now get no earnings for two weeks – said at the beginning of the pandemic she was really scared. Her Uncle’s wife died of/with covid, which made her think lockdowns were necessary. But since then she’s changed her mind, she said her auntie had lots of health issues anyway and those are the people who are vulnerable not the rest of us, and now just wants everything to get back to normal. People die she said, it’s sad but we can’t stop living.

I think people are grudgingly willing to accept these two weeks BUT if restrictions continue after the two weeks which stop businesses reopening, then people will start kicking off.

The end is in sight.

196482 ▶▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to The Spingler, 7, #246 of 2184 🔗

I hope so, my youngest son, a chef, was made redundant from his job in a London restaurant. He found a new job in Pembrokeshire about 6 weeks ago and moved into a flat in Narberth, he is now unable to work due to the latest fiasco of a lockdown. His mental health has already taken a beating.

197884 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to p02099003, 1, #247 of 2184 🔗

Narberth is one of 14 Welsh locations that has never had any Covvideaths at all.
When this s..t is over, and I do mean WHEN, tell me where your son works and we will book a celebratory table.

196558 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to The Spingler, 6, #248 of 2184 🔗

Same lack of support in NE Wales, judging by the various people from all walks of life that my wife and I are talking to, and from our own relatives’ shifting perceptions, from abject terror at the start of the hysteria, to simmering resentment.

197897 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #249 of 2184 🔗

It’s pretty well impossible for a business to fight back. If the gestapo don’t get them, a Stasi snitch will.

I did come across one startling possibility.My beloved local garden centre will be staying open, they tell me, because they also sell dogfood and this is deemed to be an essential service.

So I would advise all businesses to invest in a few tins of Pedigree Chum.

196430 ▶▶ Melangell, replying to annie, 4, #250 of 2184 🔗

So glad you posted this, Annie. I stopped reading WalesOnline a few months ago because all the comments were in favour of lockdowns, masks, etc. so thought it was a lost cause. Will now head over there to add some hostile upticks!

196536 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to annie, 2, #251 of 2184 🔗

Thanks for that link, Annie. Saves me having to search for the transcript of Drakeford’s speech. When I have time later, I’ll go through it with a fine-toothed comb and do a bit of fact-checking.

197885 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mr Dee, #252 of 2184 🔗

Please do, but you could probably comb out most of the lies with a rake.

196340 bleedingfingers, replying to bleedingfingers, 20, #253 of 2184 🔗

Please see the following email I have sent to Simon Dolan, as, even though I fully support his attempt at JR, it is unlikely to succeed. But I have an alternative idea, what do you think?

Dear Simon

With the greatest respect, in hindsight, your fight with the government (which I contributed to from the start) was never going to work. They will not allow their judicial system to take them down, or exceptionally unlikely.

However, I have had a thought. You keep tweeting “The problem is the PCR test, stop getting tested” or something of that ilk.

The scared sheep won’t stop, so why not put the heads of the NHS trust hospitals facilitating the tests on notice of their actions and their culpability in assisting the government in an illegal act. Send the the details of the German solicitors Class Action lawsuit, which they will be guilty of if they continue.

Start at the top and work down the hierarchy. The heads of testing companies, the heads of police, the individual politicians. Start to scare the people that are facilitating this, once on notice they cannot hide behind the government.

Could be done with official solicitors letters, or probably just as effectively on these people’s social media accounts.
You have a small army of followers, given the legal template, would gladly serve notice on anyone they can.

I will always be indebted to you for putting your neck on the line.

Sincerely yours

196656 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to bleedingfingers, 6, #254 of 2184 🔗

Great letter.

However, there should be court challenges as eventually something will give. Simon’s team also gained a lot of information (government had to respond to their challenges in writing prior to court date) and was also ‘forced’ to change what they were doing to try and outsmart the court challenge. No legal challenges just provide the government with ammunition to go in harder and more extreme.

I agree with your PCR message that needs to get out on a daily basis and that people should stop testing

196765 ▶▶▶ bleedingfingers, replying to Victoria, #255 of 2184 🔗

Hi Victoria

Apologies, I didn’t mean to knock the achievements of all and any legal action, you are absolutely right. My thoughts were an addition, and a low cost one at that.

196346 Scotty87, replying to Scotty87, 75, #256 of 2184 🔗

Has anybody, like me, just more or less given up on reading anything scientific anymore? At first, I possessed something of a voracious appetite for anything that debunked the enthusiastically promulgated myths concerning the efficacy of muzzles, “super-spreaders” & the spiralling number of “cases” – & now I ask myself, what the hell is the point?

What the hell is the point when the government are under the hypnotic spell of SAGE, those arrogant purveyors of doom-laden hysteria? What the hell is the point when ministers from both sides of the house constantly regurgitate the same pseudoscientific nonsense that we’ve long since known is completely without friends in the world of evidence-based knowledge & understanding?

What the hell is the point when an utterly mendacious mainstream media acts as the government’s propaganda wing, churning out Goebbelsian fear-porn on a daily basis which is all too readily absorbed by a highly suggestible & naive populace?

Please don’t presume that I am proposing we throw in the towel – far from it. I’m merely highlighting the fact that the scientific battle was won long ago, and it doesn’t seem to matter one iota. Petulant, unqualified dictators like Matt Hancock are in the position to casually toss a declaration put forward by thousands of decorated academics in the refuse bin. Scientific illiterates like Kier Starmer are able to push for yet another crippling lockdown despite the abundance of available evidence suggesting they do infinitely more harm than good. Professors on the Big Pharma payroll can suggest with impunity that we should wear muzzles into next summer, all because their highly unethical, experimental vaccine won’t be ready to be thrust into the nation’s bloodstreams until then.

It’s clear to anybody with a brain that this is now a nakedly political endeavour – & this is a war I fear cannot be won with facts & data. Of course, we may slowly turn Joe Public by warning him about false positives & the dangers of prolonged mask wearing, but most of the public simply do not have the critical thinking skills to act on this information. It’s better instead to focus on things that they can see with their own eyes – the economic destruction, the rapid descent into a police state, the disruption to our childrens’ education, the awful, continued imprisonment of our care home population – all created by these maddening lockdown policies which show no sign of going away any time soon.

The progress made so far in turning public opinion has been slow, but lockdown scepticism is fast becoming the new vogue. Even elements of the media are starting to embrace it, which sticks in one’s craw given their disgraceful coverage over the last 7 months. We are winning – we just need to realise that this is no longer bad science vs good science. It’s bad people vs good people. Not everybody needs to be a well-researched sceptic in order for the tide to turn, they just need to hate the government enough to get out of their mental armchairs & fight this tyranny. Given the coming tsunami of unemployment as we head into a long bleak winter, I’d say we’re heading towards having an army of millions in the very near future.

196350 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Scotty87, 22, #257 of 2184 🔗

I feel the same. The tsunami of truthful transparent data means nothing. It is ignored and replaced by facts to support decisions the government wants to make. That is the message we need to be getting out to those who still believe all of this.

196360 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Scotty87, 22, #258 of 2184 🔗

If we must wear masks, why not masks like these? It’s the Fifth of November soon.
Holler boys, holler boys, let the bells ring…

196432 ▶▶ NY, replying to Scotty87, 20, #259 of 2184 🔗

Yes, I know where you’re coming from. All science and reason has been thrown to the wind. There is no rational argumentation when it comes to covid, there never has been. That is because what is happening here is a scam. It never was about a virus. It is a scam.

196857 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to NY, 9, #260 of 2184 🔗

Yes, those sceptics who still think the government is merely misguided must be having a hard time hanging on to that old chestnut. This government is in bed with the globalists and some of its more prominent members clearly look to have taken the globalist shilling. Nothing else gets near explaining what is really going on. The key watchwords should be vaccines and depopulation.

196439 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Scotty87, 10, #261 of 2184 🔗

Agree and you’re very spot on with this. I’ve given up on using facts and logic because it was like trying to get blood out of a stone. My mum used to say that sometimes it takes for someone to stumble and fall badly before they learn and I think we’re reaching that point.

The coming tsunami of redundancies and bankruptcies I suspect will be what will wake people up. As is tax raids and a host of personal experiences ranging from being unable to visit grandparents or a parent falling ill and unable to access medical services.

196539 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Scotty87, 13, #262 of 2184 🔗

I been felling like that for the last 2 months..Data, science, experts, graphs, facts. Nothing matters anymore. There is no point, the course of this country has been set and nothing will change it…Except maybe an armed rebellion or rioting on the scale we have never seen in this country before. But this will never happen as we are an island of spineless ,submissive, sheep. Both my grandfathers who fought in WW2 are spinning in their graves. I’m happy they are both death, this would be too much for them to bear.

196670 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Scotty87, 11, #263 of 2184 🔗

The lockdowners use emotion, not logic. It is propaganda. We should too. I don’t think we should lie, but a few emotional stories about people dying because of lockdown wouldn’t come amiss. Plus some jaunty positive facts about Covid.

196726 ▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Scotty87, 7, #264 of 2184 🔗

You’re right fighting to end the tyranny of lockdown is a much better message that arguing over statistics .There is no doubt more and more people are coming round . I think we need to start seeing ourselves as lockdown resisters instead of just sceptics . The doom mongers who would give up at the drop of an hat and those those who trust the polls are wrong ,the reckoning is coming sooner than people realise .

197837 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to wat tyler, 4, #265 of 2184 🔗

Lockdown resisters – the Resistance!

197368 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Scotty87, 5, #266 of 2184 🔗

You cannot reason with a crowd, nor with a fanatic and least of all with a crowd of fanatics.
They are all so invested in their ideas and belonging to the crowd now, that no turning back is possible, only doubling down.
They will only turn their back on the leaders, ideas and crowd after the catastrophes (hyperinflation, mass unemoyment, vaccine deaths etc.) have happened.
See Cults, the Xhosa cattle killing story and mass psychology 101 as per Gustave Lebon.

196352 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 9, #267 of 2184 🔗

What will it take for people to fight back? Businesses are being given furlough, for a while.

But what about our homes? They’re taking our businesses. Will they come for our homes? Particularly if you still have a mortgage.

What do you think?

196359 ▶▶ l835, replying to Country Mumkin, 10, #268 of 2184 🔗

How are we supposed to fight back?

Write to your MP? You just get a standard reply. They don’t care as you’ll still vote for them, as there’s no difference between the parties.

Businesses carry on? With no customers as they’re staying home and shopping on amazon. Plus heavy fines for non compliance.

Don’t wear a mask? Who cares, they just think you’re exempt.

Argue the science? Public doesn’t understand and has been completely brainwashed anyway.

Sorry to be negative, but out of ideas.

196374 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to l835, 9, #269 of 2184 🔗

Agree, it’s all very well pretending to carry on as normal and ignore the rules, impossible if the pubs, restaurants and shops are shut.

We are trying to fight with both hands tied behind our back.

196864 ▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to stefarm, #270 of 2184 🔗

The only ideas I have are

1. “Owning” The areas you live using human shields (when the time comes)
2. Serious civil unrest (again when the time comes)

Does it have to get worse before more pitch in?

What’s the tipping point? Any ideas people?

196446 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to l835, 6, #271 of 2184 🔗

I’m coming to the conclusion that perhaps we should do nothing at this stage.

As I mentioned to Scotty above, my mum once said that sometimes the best way for people to learn the hard way is when they stumble and fall badly.

Furlough is ending in 11 days’ time. Then the wave of redundancies and bankruptcies can’t be held back. People will wake up once they’re hit in the pocket and stomach.

196479 ▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to l835, 6, #272 of 2184 🔗

With regards to MPs, I think now is actually the time to write to them again. After watching the lengthy commons session for the tiered restrictions debate, I thought it clear that a good portion of them are becoming sceptical (10-20%?). MPs are mostly cowards but they now know that they are not alone if they change their views to something like the GBD.

I wrote to my MP recently and was shocked that I actually got through to him and he became one of the 6 labour MPs that defied the whip by voting against the Coronavirus Act renewal. It can be done, especially while there is momentum.

197559 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to TheBluePill, #273 of 2184 🔗

Well done! Mine seems to believe the propaganda. 🙁

197841 ▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Cheezilla, #274 of 2184 🔗

Mine is the propaganda. Tobias Ellwood. Pointless to write to him again since he’s the one advocating use of the military to distribute “the” vaccine.

197624 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to l835, #275 of 2184 🔗

Take care of you and yours…. that is all you can do. Get out of the system as much as you can.

196365 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Country Mumkin, 8, #276 of 2184 🔗

Yes, possibly if agenda 30 is the ultimate goal. Moving people to city centres in small prefabricated apartments. Working from home, food deliveries. No travel outside the boundary. No need for a car. Big corporations owning the land and assets.

Sound familiar.

196367 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to stefarm, 12, #277 of 2184 🔗

Also have to consider that furlough is ending, small and medium businesses being closed, self employed losing work. Mortgages still have to be paid.

A massive asset grab. Scary stuff. It’s a shame the docile people are not putting 2+2 together

196727 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to stefarm, 5, #278 of 2184 🔗

A way of ending the 50 year old ponzi scheme that is the UK housing market and blaming it on the Covid.

197641 ▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to stefarm, 1, #279 of 2184 🔗

Most of them have been exposed to the truth and have reqjected it as conspiracy theory even with the documents right in front of their faces. They LIKE all of this, so their belief aligns with their wishes and they reject anything against what they see as utopia.

196381 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Country Mumkin, 12, #280 of 2184 🔗

I fear that many more people will lose their homes . I don’t think people know how to fight back and I don’t really know either.

Over the years we have seen citizens in other countries suffer under repressive regimes and I expect many of us have sympathised with their plight but felt relieved because we thought we could rely, in large part, on our democratic processes and legal checks and balances. I don’t think I ever appreciated how easy it would be for our own Government to snatch away our freedoms and voices. How naive I have been.

I have written many letters, signed many petitions and shared my views with anyone who will listen. I perform my own small acts of resistance. If 90% of the population had an epiphany today and started doing likewise would it make any difference at this point? I don’t know what fighting back successfully would look like.

196867 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #281 of 2184 🔗

Agree with all this Charlie Blue.

196383 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Country Mumkin, 5, #282 of 2184 🔗

Close McDonald’s, KFC or Nando’s or a strike by deliveroo.

Only way the plebs will take notice.

196385 ▶▶▶ l835, replying to stefarm, 2, #283 of 2184 🔗

Which is exactly why they can stay open as takeaways

196496 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to l835, 3, #284 of 2184 🔗

Didn’t someone post yesterday that MC Donald’s workers do not have to self isolate if they have been in contact with someone who has had a (false)+

Ronald McDonald is not as stupid as his outfit makes out.

196543 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Country Mumkin, 3, #285 of 2184 🔗

Nothing…people will not fight back until we have 6 million unemployed and they are bread lines a mile long. And even then, nothing will happen as the people who make the policy are going to be comfortably work from their minion pound houses and pontificate about the poor plebs.

197610 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #286 of 2184 🔗

In the Great Reset, all property is forefit to the state. You should read it. It’s on Amazon.

196355 Lucan Grey, replying to Lucan Grey, 11, #287 of 2184 🔗

In terms of names for the other side

“Doomers” seems to be a favourite.

And in their mind the current uncertainty ends up being certainty of the worst case scenario – which is invulnerable to logic.

What we need to do is give them another uncertainty to worry about that is worse. Comparative persuasion.

The mistake was the furlough scheme. What it needed to be was a drop to £10 per hour.

When a Doomer is looking at their comfy job becoming a £10 per hour living wage job, then we may see a change in attitude.

196561 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Lucan Grey, 3, #288 of 2184 🔗

No the proper name for them is Everybody (but a tiny, tiny minority)..They are the 99% , they will decide, this country will never come out of lockdown, we will wear masks in 10 years time, everybody will have a Health passport or you will be a homeless person living under a bridge. This is happening and there is nothing any of us can do to stop it.The tide is not turning, soon you will have Brown Shirts-Covid Marshalls and 30s Germany will look like fucking Disneyland compared to will happen here and everywhere in the West.

196728 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Thomas_E, 3, #289 of 2184 🔗

A tad doomy ? 🙂

196761 ▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Thomas_E, 2, #290 of 2184 🔗

Then get off your knees and stand and fight .If this was in war time you would be shot for comments like that and in my opinion rightly so .

196917 ▶▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to wat tyler, #291 of 2184 🔗

In time of war this would have not happened as the people would be working towards defeating a REAL enemy not something that ahs 99,98% survalibility! a 500 kg bomb dropped from a He111 does not have ..it ash a 100% death ratting if you are anywhere near it.

196979 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Thomas_E, 2, #292 of 2184 🔗

We have a REAL enemy. They’re mostly in Westminster and Whitehall.

196356 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 1, #293 of 2184 🔗

ONLY POISONED MONKEY KIDNEY CELLS ‘GREW’ THE ‘VIRUS’

Is the virus harmless to humans?

https://drtomcowan.com/only-poisoned-monkey-kidney-cells-grew-the-virus/

196632 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Sarigan, #294 of 2184 🔗

Monkey DNA transferred to your body

197646 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sarigan, #295 of 2184 🔗

The video is extremely interesting!

196361 Josephine K, replying to Josephine K, 15, #296 of 2184 🔗

Sean Stanhope has posted an update on the Liverpool gyms situation – surprise surprise environmental health are trying to sabotage – but they’re so bright they didn’t realise their “secret ” meeting was being recorded!
Sean’s no sheeple !

196370 ▶▶ alw, replying to Josephine K, 1, #297 of 2184 🔗

Link please.

196487 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Josephine K, 7, #299 of 2184 🔗

I wish this guy all the very best. Having been on the receiving-end of an over-zealous EHO visit myself, he has my utmost sympathy.

I have one thought though. Does he have either an understanding landlord or does he own his premises? Only asking because if, as a business-owner you are breaking the law (even if the law is cretinous), you will likely be in breach of the terms of the lease and be in danger of being evicted.

196504 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Josephine K, 5, #300 of 2184 🔗

That man’s an inspiration to us all.

196666 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Josephine K, 1, #301 of 2184 🔗

Just donated and shared his page on my twitter account.

196530 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #303 of 2184 🔗
196630 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to PastImperfect, #304 of 2184 🔗

Thanks great website. Will add to my list

196625 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Bella Donna, #305 of 2184 🔗

Great article

196375 TJN, replying to TJN, 21, #306 of 2184 🔗

Listening to Drakeford yesterday announcing the Wales lockdown, I was struck by how he appeared to be relishing it all.

No genuine sense of regret – for the destroyed businesses, the personal misery, the subjugation of liberty – just over-riding gratification, personal fulfilment even, from the execution of arbitrary power.

196382 ▶▶ l835, replying to TJN, 7, #307 of 2184 🔗

Just another step in Drakefords anti-English agenda. Have a look at his policies over the years. He wants to return wales to a peasant economy, where no one strays outside their village. Oh, and he expects England to fund it.

196431 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to l835, 4, #308 of 2184 🔗

The filthy little bastard.

Annie, what a flatterer you are.

196389 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to TJN, 4, #309 of 2184 🔗

“Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely” – Lord Acton.

That said, he should be careful. When the day of reckoning arrives, the people will show no mercy.

196424 ▶▶▶ NY, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #310 of 2184 🔗

I hope so. What has been done here is unspeakable and must be treated proportionally.

196451 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to NY, 2, #311 of 2184 🔗

Agree. What he’s doing to the people of Wales is criminal and destruction on a Carthaginian scale.

196394 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to TJN, 5, #312 of 2184 🔗

I agree. Like Sturgeon, he is totally living his best life.

196410 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Now More Than Ever, 5, #313 of 2184 🔗

Yes. Just like the snitches and the Environmental Health bods, they’re absolutely bloody loving it.

196495 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to TJN, 4, #314 of 2184 🔗

They all love the power. It makes them feel like great statesman. It’s intoxicating.

196378 Tuppence Worth, replying to Tuppence Worth, 33, #315 of 2184 🔗

One thing that has been made clear to us is that the NHS is not free in any way whatsoever.

We are forced to pay (dearly) for something that most of the time we don’t need, and just when we do, the government withdraws the service.

Defund the NHS… Now!

196388 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Tuppence Worth, 24, #316 of 2184 🔗

Well said. I think a lot of people are waking up to the fact that the NHS has become the National Covid Service. And its not helped that many health practitioners have exposed themselves to be betraying the Hippocratic Oath.

Do these people not realise that they are driving a nail into their own coffins?

When this is over I will never trust any health practitioner again ever and I don’t think I’m alone in that sentiment.

196393 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 22, #317 of 2184 🔗

You’re not Bart. I had very little respect for the NHS to start with (the way they treated my poor mum and then, the backside covering when I tried to look into her death and the myriad mess-ups with my own health). I try to live as healthily as possible because I want as little to do with ‘healthcare’ as possible.

196399 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 10, #318 of 2184 🔗

Same here. I want to have as little contact with the NHS as possible, granted they were good when my father-in-law had a stroke last year. But he’s lucky compared to others such as your mum who have suffered from their incompetence and cover ups.

196403 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #319 of 2184 🔗

And the other thing is, if it’s so brilliant, why don’t other countries have the same system? I believe the Dutch health service is very good (I know when I collapsed there a few years ago, their ambulance service was very, very efficient).

196441 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to kh1485, 2, #320 of 2184 🔗

Other countries do have the system.

The NHS is single payer. All the GPs are private businesses owned by GPs. The Hospitals are private trusts. Services are purchased from them.

The idea that the NHS is different is completely false.

196456 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Lucan Grey, 4, #321 of 2184 🔗

All I can go on are my own wretched experiences. It is not fit for purpose and needs radical reform.

196590 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Lucan Grey, 8, #322 of 2184 🔗

Other countries do have the system .”

They don’t though, do they. You can always wave your hands to cover up the differences and find superficial similarities, after all all the systems are trying to find ways to solve basically the same problem, of providing state subsidised healthcare to huge populations.

But there’s a reason the NHS routinely appears close to the top in lists of the world’s biggest employers and no other healthcare system features in the top ten despite the UK being well down the list by total population nowadays.

It’s a gargantuan bureaucracy with all the problems attendant on that, and all the temptations and opportunities for meddling and abuse illustrated by its catastrophic role in our disastrous national coronapanic performance

197264 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Mark, #323 of 2184 🔗

But there’s a reason the NHS routinely appears close to the top in lists of the world’s biggest employers “

That’s because somebody doesn’t do the sums right. The NHS is a series of trusts, and they all employ their own staff.

If somebody has added them all together, that’s like adding Shell and BP together and posting “oil company employees”.

196450 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 4, #324 of 2184 🔗

Everytime I mention France or Germany, the NHS defenders all fall silent. Plus why is it none of the Commonwealth countries have copied it either?

197265 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Bart Simpson, #325 of 2184 🔗

They have though haven’t they. Australia for example.

196598 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to kh1485, 1, #326 of 2184 🔗

Great self-help book to improve your health / stay healthy.

I Wish My Doctor Had Told Me This
— Kate Chaytor-Norris —

196701 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Victoria, 2, #327 of 2184 🔗

Thanks Victoria, I’ll give it a look. The book that turned things round for me was ‘Trick and Treat’ by Barry Groves (though other hugely instructive books I’ve read were by Dr Malcolm Kendrick, Ben Goldacre and James Davies).

197353 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mutineer, replying to kh1485, 2, #328 of 2184 🔗
197817 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Victoria, #329 of 2184 🔗

And Lies My Doctor Told Me by Dr Ken Berry.

196429 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #330 of 2184 🔗

I didn’t before. Not after they put my dying father on the Liverpool Path.
I will never forgive them for that, never, never, never.

196605 ▶▶▶ VickyA, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #331 of 2184 🔗

You are not alone. Despite having a chronic illness for 30 years, I have avoided them whenever possible and not deteriorated as much as I would have with their “help”.
Also their care of my father before he died in May (not of Covid of course) was shameful. He was kept in an isolation ward for a week as everyone was treated as if they had it and when they finally got the negative test, he was moved so he could have a visitor, my sister turned up within 35 minutes of them saying he had moved to an open ward but he was already dead! This is not a way to treat people at end of life.

196673 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to VickyA, 2, #332 of 2184 🔗

That’s horrible and my sympathies are with you and your family. That’s not a way to treat someone who is ill and crucially at the end of their life.

I’ve avoided registering with a GP for years now as even trying to register is a hassle and I’ve never understood why you can’t be free to register wherever you wish and you’re restricted by a post code.

196816 ▶▶▶▶▶ VickyA, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #333 of 2184 🔗

Thanks. It’s not good to carry anger and resentment but I can’t help it. And reading the reports like the suicide of Arnie’s business partner fuels the anger.
And as for GP I only go when I have to officially to get them to sign something for me.
I have always liked the idea from traditional Chinese medicine that you only pay a physician if you keep healthy. Then our NHS would be a Health service, not a sickness one!

196412 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Tuppence Worth, 3, #334 of 2184 🔗

The problems with the NHS are the problems with society. They have precisely the same problems everywhere else in different forms. Largely because you can’t really have a medical establishment going bust in the middle of a procedure, nor can you have sufficient spare competitive capacity lying around to take up the slack.

196436 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Tuppence Worth, 1, #335 of 2184 🔗

If you have private health insurance you’re still paying for something that for most of the time you don’t need (the same with any insurance).
The NHS is not an organisation it is a means by which healthcare is paid for in advance of need.

GP and dental practices are private companies that contract their services to the NHS.

Individual hospitals (trusts) are separate organisations that provide services on the NHS as dictated by the local care commissioning groups (CCG). These trusts are run as businesses.
I don’t think the concept of the NHS is a bad idea, where it is wrong is in the piecemeal implementation with healthcare trusts that are run as businesses.

196443 ▶▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to p02099003, 1, #336 of 2184 🔗

With insurance you’re paying for an entire layer of financial bureaucracy and middlemen on top of what we currently have. As the silly US system shows.

If they go to Medicare for All over there one of the main problems will be massive unemployment amongst insurance coders, et al.

196492 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to p02099003, #337 of 2184 🔗

They aren’t exactly businesses. They receive a fixed grant which they have to use all of otherwise they don’t get the same grant next year – i.e. zero profit. A business would make a profit and then if still getting a grant, get less as now you have your profits to reinvest and use at your disgression.

You wouldn’t order thousands of boxes of gloves near the end of your financial year just to “use up the money”

196623 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to p02099003, 2, #338 of 2184 🔗

Yes stay away from the US health system – insurance very expensive, services and drugs extremely expensive etc.

Switzerland has a brilliant health care system based on health insurance. It is well run, efficient, you get the treatment you need at the right time (no waiting 18 month waiting lists and cancelled procedures / operations). Insurance is affordable and the State subsidises the premiums of the less well off, so EVERYBODY has access to good quality health care.

198269 ▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Victoria, #339 of 2184 🔗

For 10 M people, some of whom are the wealthiest in the world . Not comparable.

196688 ▶▶▶ Tuppence Worth, replying to p02099003, 2, #340 of 2184 🔗

The German system works well, if you work you pay into a common fund.

But you also buy into a private system, where the providers compete with each other to offer new and competitive services.

For instance, my daughter has been paying into the NHS for about fifteen years, she had a requirement for a rare treatment. A treatment that the NHS do not offer. However her consultant did recommend a practitioner in Germany who could do it.

£12K but what service, it made the NHS provision look like something that workers might get offered free in Cuba. No, this facility had room for three clients/patients at a time, and is fully booked for well over a year in advance.

The same treatment was available to Germans free at the point of service.

One more thing, as a commenter pointed out above… There are more ways to skin a cat than that specified by the alopathic closed shop. If that is so, people should be free to investigate how they can improve their own health, sans doctor/god.

Insurance is NOT necessarily the only alternative to the NHS model.

196379 Will, replying to Will, 18, #341 of 2184 🔗

I have kept plugging away on Facebook and am finally starting to gain some traction, especially over the issue of medical treatments etc. I really do think people are ready to start admitting that they have been conned and the collateral damage to the health system is unbearable. Whereas I think Burnham was in favour of a lockdown for the right money I think he can see that it would be completely unnecessary because the NHS in Manchester is coping perfectly well.

196427 ▶▶ annie, replying to Will, 7, #342 of 2184 🔗

Well done, Will, keep it up.
NEVER DESPAIR. NEVER GIVE IN.

196444 ▶▶ muzzle, replying to Will, 5, #343 of 2184 🔗

One of the contentious issues they are discussing is the selective use of statistics to justify the lockdown. I’m not a Burnham fan but it’s good to see someone that represents a large part of the population actually using their brain and pointing out these things.

196380 muzzle, replying to muzzle, 14, #344 of 2184 🔗

Interesting Andy Burnham is now suggesting shielding of the elderly is the solution for Manchester. Perhaps he’s siding with the GBD?

196392 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to muzzle, 8, #345 of 2184 🔗

Graham Stringer, Labour MP for one of the Manchester constituencies, was just on Talk Radio and also appeared to back “protect the vulnerable”.

196414 ▶▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Now More Than Ever, 7, #346 of 2184 🔗

Has anybody asked him why he thinks “the vulnerable” don’t have agency and can’t understand the current situation sufficiently to protect themselves.

Why does Nanny always have to tell people what to do?

196474 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Lucan Grey, 1, #347 of 2184 🔗

It’s got more to do with bullying than nannying

196508 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Lucan Grey, 2, #348 of 2184 🔗

Indeed, i rather fear that if officialdom buy into the idea of shielding they will want it to be compulsory when it should be on the basis of guidance and assistance. Imagination and consideration not compulsion but theer is little chance of that. They feel they need to be incontrol of everything.
Most vulnerable people are already doing a good job of shielding themselves it can and is being done.

196693 ▶▶▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #349 of 2184 🔗

Agreed. Shielding should be made available, not mandatory.

197023 ▶▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to Now More Than Ever, 1, #350 of 2184 🔗

He was one of the Labour MPs who voted against the Coronavirus Act. So was Rebecca Long Bailey. They mainly did it to undermine Starmer, but they are worth getting onside.

198280 ▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Caroline Watson, #351 of 2184 🔗

Much more to the point, they are also Labour members of the Commons Select Committee on Science and Technology which has been taking evidence for months from Ferguson, Heneghan, Giesecke, Dido Harding, Vallance, Whitty and all the main players. So they know what’s what. Nothing to do with Starmer.

196384 earthkiss, replying to earthkiss, 8, #352 of 2184 🔗

Why is GMB bluring out footage of the queen not wearing a mask?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNJ8tjQHFS0

More Black Mirror stuff.

196411 ▶▶ leggy, replying to earthkiss, 4, #353 of 2184 🔗

WTF? Why indeed.

196500 ▶▶▶ Nsklent, replying to leggy, 1, #354 of 2184 🔗

But the queen could have ‘worn a beautifully coordinated pink mask,’ … do they listen to what they are actually saying.

196419 ▶▶ NY, replying to earthkiss, 8, #355 of 2184 🔗

It is blasphemy against the new religion. This has much in common with face coverings in Islamic nations. The mask is a symbol of subservience.

196438 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to earthkiss, #356 of 2184 🔗

At 5.30 in.

196490 ▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to BTLnewbie, 1, #357 of 2184 🔗

Thanks – no way could I sit through all of it. Thanks for enduring the pain on others behalf

196447 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to earthkiss, 1, #358 of 2184 🔗

I just watched that. Holy Hell. Honestly. It’s gone, sanity. It’s gone.

196778 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Leemc23, #359 of 2184 🔗

Amazing!

We have truly gone through the looking-glass

196499 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to earthkiss, 1, #360 of 2184 🔗

Dear lord……

196523 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to earthkiss, 1, #361 of 2184 🔗

Is there an offence of defacing an image of the queen, like with currency?

196534 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sam Vimes, #362 of 2184 🔗

I don’t think there is. Thailand has that as an offence under lese majeste laws.

196597 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Bart Simpson, #363 of 2184 🔗

Interesting that, in trying to rubbish the precautions that were taken, Dr. Swillery says “You can still get the virus after you’ve tested negative”. Well, yeah…

196677 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sam Vimes, #364 of 2184 🔗

I find that comment odd. Bet no-one asked him “how?” if that’s the case.

196853 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Sam Vimes, #365 of 2184 🔗

I remember reading something like that a long time ago whilst at uni. Since this was pre-email, a friend of mine who was a year younger and I were communicating by post at this point, so we took to deliberately putting the stamps on the envelopes at rakish angles and drawing stuff round them to make it obvious it was deliberate. We remain, to this day, free citizens – or at least as free as anybody else is at the moment. Maybe that’s what this is really all about – collectively punishing the whole country for silly stamp placement thirty years ago.

196863 ▶▶ mjr, replying to earthkiss, 1, #366 of 2184 🔗

Just checked the original broadcast on freeview catchup. Both the videos shown (the queen and the wedding) were not blurred out so to be fair to GMB it wasn’t the show itself.

It seems the blurring is just the Youtube posting. Whether that is ITV or Youtube is a different questions.

Oh – and i hope you realise what i had to do to check this. I had to watch Doctor Hilary full screen. What an arrogant ignorant gobshite

196397 S1722, 1, #367 of 2184 🔗

Re: today’s Woke Gobbledegook section. Note that Leeds CC are pressing ahead with rewriting the statues’ plaques – presumably through the lens of critical race theory – notwithstanding that 90% wanted no change.

At the same time, LCC is going into discussions over tier 3 restrictions – and I have no faith in Judith Blake holding out in a similar way to Burnham / Leese. From what I can see, the rolling averages are falling in much the same way as the other cities listed in today’s update – but it would be useful to see how they look side by side. Anything that can support the (vocal) opposition within the Council…

196400 l835, replying to l835, 4, #368 of 2184 🔗

No wonder politicians and the MSM can’t understand ‘the science’ if they think 17 1/2 days of lockdown is two weeks. It’s two and a half.

196538 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to l835, #369 of 2184 🔗

They can’t count. And I thought it was only Diane Abbott.

196402 Lucan Grey, replying to Lucan Grey, #370 of 2184 🔗

On the False positive rate, it is the ratio of the actual infection rate to the false positive rate that gives you the accuracy. e.g. 95:5 if there is lots of infection. 3:5 if there is very little.

196408 ▶▶ matt, replying to Lucan Grey, 1, #371 of 2184 🔗

I find that the easiest way to help people understand is to draw a graph with the testing numbers going up, the false positive line following the testing numbers and the actual infection numbers as a flat line. The growing gap between the infections and the false positives makes it pretty clear

196448 ▶▶ Bill h, replying to Lucan Grey, #372 of 2184 🔗

Hello.

you might find this helpful from the Oxford CEBM.

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/covid-19-florence-nightingales-daigrams-for-deaths/

Hell of a lady that Florence !

196460 ▶▶▶ Bill h, replying to Bill h, #373 of 2184 🔗
196603 ▶▶▶▶ kenadams, replying to Bill h, #374 of 2184 🔗

Out of general interest, why do deaths go sharply down over christmas week? Is this because of reporting lags, or because people manage to mentally keep themselves alive for one last christmas with the family, and then die straight after?

196635 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to kenadams, 7, #375 of 2184 🔗

Less doctors in hospital to kill patients by their actions.

196780 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bill h, replying to kenadams, #376 of 2184 🔗

I would imagine its lags. Christamas and New Year now, everything is pretty muuch shut down, especially the Public Sector.

196467 ▶▶▶ Bill h, replying to Bill h, #377 of 2184 🔗

Bought myself a new computer yesterday – lets give it a whirl…….

196472 ▶▶▶▶ maggie may, replying to Bill h, 3, #378 of 2184 🔗

Oh dear, had you thrown something at the old one in despair?!

196404 Kevin, replying to Kevin, 3, #380 of 2184 🔗

Has anyone looked at the fact there was a wave of excess deaths (about 7000) between September and December 2019 followed by a dip in average deaths between Dec&Mar? Faisal Islam of the BBC wrote a report that this was Flu but Nhs website states Flu season is Dec-Mar in the Uk.

I find it odd that flu season could jump forward 4 months and then be immediately followed by a new virus with very similar symptoms. When you look at the flu reports very few cases are confirmed as flu but at its peak in week 48 reports just shy of 200 acute respiratory outbreaks across E&W but only confirms about 20 as Flu, so what were the rest? The corresponding week showed nearly 900 excess deaths. Could that have been Covid when no one knew it existed?

It makes me wonder because we are currently comparing hospital numbers to last year which may be usual for the preceding years but if covid was here earlier than known and has passed through the population without intervention then lockdowns and even social distancing are likely having no effect and it would also mean we are in a third wave now. However I might and probably am completely wrong but if someone were to put in a graph of excess deaths starting from January 2019 to present day it might show an interesting pattern?

Il await some feedback to tell me what I’ve overlooked

197041 ▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to Kevin, #381 of 2184 🔗

I believe that I had it in the New Year. I had spent Christmas in a part of the East Midlands where there are a lot of people of Italian descent who may have visited their families in Italy before Christmas.
It started with sickness, followed by a five day fever, fatigue and joint pain, followed by high breathing, as if the bottoms of my lungs were congested. I never had cold symptoms.
Quite a number of people from that area are convinced that they had it and the figures for Lincolnshire have remained low.

197666 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Caroline Watson, 1, #382 of 2184 🔗

Same here in a small town in Suffolk. Allegedly we had about eight cases of covid. I don’t know any of them but I know someone whose relative got it.

On the other hand I must know about thirty people who had a suspiciously covid-like infection between October and February, peaking in December when I also got it. It looks for all the world as if immunity was gained.

Mine was relatively mild but some people had it even worse than you. Someone’s son came back from skiing in France with a horrific cough and everyone else in the family went on to catch it, but with widely varying degrees of symptoms.

Someone who had it bad saw their doctor and was told it was “just a virus”. I’ve heard similar tales from other parts of the country, like the south west

Epilogue: I shook off the original infection though I continued to cough mainly at night for a while. I got a heavy dose of hay fever during the tree pollen season, which I don’t normally get. I had a second attack during the grass pollen season, which I do sometimes get but not this bad. Originally I assumed maybe the lack of air pollution had made the pollen more vicious. Now of course I realise it was long covid.

196407 NY, 8, #383 of 2184 🔗

A colossal scam. This is not being done out of concern for lives. They wouldn’t shed a tear if you die, and they know these measures aren’t saving lives. This is the big move towards global restructuring.

196413 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 1, #384 of 2184 🔗

They are introducing Loop-mediated isothermal amplification tests at Heathrow airport.

From the BBC report:
“A Lamp test is quicker than the PCR test, which is widely used in the NHS, because the sample does not need to be sent to a laboratory.
Collinson , the company behind the initiative at Heathrow, admitted that the Lamp test is “slightly less sensitive” than the PCR test.
From Collinson’s website (my emphasis)
The tests, which use the gold standard of virus detection, RT-PCR testing , are sensitive enough to detect COVID-19 particles , even when a passenger has displayed no symptoms.”

The tests are £80.00 a go.

196484 ▶▶ NickR, replying to p02099003, 6, #385 of 2184 🔗

We flew to Kefalonia (go to the North of the Island & across to Ithaca, just great but recently devastated by; financial crash, covid caused mass cancellations, hurricane in Sept that blew half the island away). They pulled, mainly women, to one side for a covid test, took about 2 mins & declared everyone fine. I read later that they’d tested about 3,000 arrivals & found no positives. Now what kind of test is that? No false positives, no real positives? Still made everyone feel better.
I managed to have a row on the flight with a young chap who called a steward over to complain about the speed with which I was eating my Maltesers, 1 Malteser every 10 mins to last the trip maskless.

196585 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to p02099003, #386 of 2184 🔗

admitted that the Lamp test is “slightly less sensitive” than the PCR test.

So more false positives that the PCR.

You pay for your ticket, get a positive result and then lose all your money. What not to like?

196415 Bugle, replying to Bugle, 9, #387 of 2184 🔗

Pity our useless MPs did not vote down the emergency powers when they had the chance.

196421 ▶▶ l835, replying to Bugle, 5, #388 of 2184 🔗

Why should they? The rules don’t apply to them.

196468 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to l835, 5, #389 of 2184 🔗

The fact they kept the bars open in parliament ought to alert people this is a scam. Fortunately the Speaker Lindsay Hoyle stopped that although I understand the Lords haven’t closed theirs!

196510 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #390 of 2184 🔗

Well, they’ve got to have somewhere to go when they drop in with the taxi waiting, in order to claim their £300.

196426 Humanity First, replying to Humanity First, -3, #391 of 2184 🔗

By 2030, there will be no natural babies born. Zero. All babies will be chosen with a specific design and program. I heard this on a video from the World Economic Forum site and I fact-checked this bizarre statement four times.”

https://sarahwestall.com/the-globalist-agenda-the-covid-plandemic-is-just-the-beginning/

196435 ▶▶ annie, replying to Humanity First, 9, #392 of 2184 🔗

Bollocks.

196461 ▶▶▶ Humanity First, replying to annie, 2, #393 of 2184 🔗

I sincerely hope it is too.

But at the same time the fact that we find a particular idea horrific or unpleasant (or inimical to our current worldview) should not be the sole criterion to judge its truth or falsehood.

For a lot of people the fact that their own government could actually lie to them is deeply unsettling and for that reason alone will dismiss any evidence to the contrary as a ‘conspiracy theory’.

196516 ▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Humanity First, 3, #394 of 2184 🔗

Good job the traditional method of making babies remains extremely popular.

196533 ▶▶▶▶▶ claire, replying to Charlie Blue, #395 of 2184 🔗

I suppose the vaccine could take care of that if they wanted….

196869 ▶▶▶▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to Charlie Blue, #396 of 2184 🔗

Of course it does. But there’s no denying that the Gov has made sex illegal for a lot of people? And has also made it a lot harder for young people to even make new relationships. We might not see it in the birth rate for a while but if this nonsense carries on for longer or gets worse I think we will do.

197062 ▶▶▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to Humanity First, -1, #397 of 2184 🔗

That was a theory in the 80s during the hysteria about AIDS. Heterosexual people and lesbians in monogamous relationships were expected to go along with the hysteria in some sort of solidarity, although their risks were minimal.
The ‘gender’ nonsense has taken over since then, in a massive Long March Through The Institutions, and this is part of that.
There are many parallels and links between the advance of the ‘gender’ bollocks and the promotion of the New Normal.

196788 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to annie, 1, #398 of 2184 🔗

Well probably Ann.

….but if somebody had suggested less than a year ago that we would be in this situation no, then the response of almost 100% of peoplewould have been:

“Bollocks”

197710 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to annie, #399 of 2184 🔗

Spend some time with some Transhumanists. Scientifically and practically it may be bollocks, but ideologically….. oh, it’s fucking real alright!

196437 Humanity First, 5, #400 of 2184 🔗

In such times, we must remain inwardly strong and not allow fear or hopelessness to make inroads into our souls – no matter how dire the situation seems to be .

196440 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 28, #401 of 2184 🔗

BBC R4 8am News

“President Trump has called his top Covid adviser Dr. Fauci a ‘disaster’ saying that ‘if I had followed his advice another 500,000 Americans would have died”

Ouch, that must have hurt!

196453 ▶▶ Danny, replying to karenovirus, 33, #402 of 2184 🔗

As pointed out by Simon Dolan last night, Donald Trump is the only world leader that has not used the Covid emergency for an executive and intrusive power grab.
Always feel compelled to preface any talk of the Trump by declaring myself not a fan, but what strange times we live in where the sanest politician at present is Donald Trump and the most zealous adherents to lockdown are the left.

196459 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Danny, 17, #403 of 2184 🔗

I’m quite fond of The Donald probably because he’s more of a business man that the two faced charlatans we call politicians and most of all because the Left hate him!

196466 ▶▶▶▶ Danny, replying to Bella Donna, 17, #404 of 2184 🔗

Yep it’s an odd one. I am very left wing myself but despair at things like the cult of Obama and the arrogance of treating Trump supporters as lesser people. Trump certainly seems motivated by ego, but then find a politician that doesn’t!

196658 ▶▶▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Danny, 12, #405 of 2184 🔗

The fact the media hate him is enough reason for me to vote for him.

196497 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Danny, 16, #406 of 2184 🔗

I’ve always been ambivalent about him because despite quite liking some of his politics, he can be let’s face it a bit of an arse sometimes. As a celeb I just disliked him on those few occasions I noticed him, as a politician he filled a gap by providing a non-career politician to fill a desperate need for one at the top of US politics, and he was prepared and able to offend and defy the people who most needed to be offended and defied.

Imo he’s by far the most American of any President or mainstream candidate since Reagan, and therefore the most suited to be POTUS.

It’s precisely because he’s not a career politician that I’m not surprised he’s been one of very few not to seize the opportunity presented by this panic to make a power grab and advance lifelong political goals.

He’s already done the world a huge favour by keeping Clinton’s grubby, murderous hands off the levers of power, and if he can do the same for the noxious Biden that alone will more than justify his existence.

But the coronapanic has made his reelection far more vital than it ever was before. Both because the Democrats, like Labour here, are full on panicker zealots, and because the panic has fully exposed the danger we face from big tech control of information, and if we have a Democrat regime now they will be allowed to solidify that control and ensure that no Republican outside the safe (from the establishment pov) mainstream will ever be able to get elected again.

196470 ▶▶ Eddy, replying to karenovirus, 1, #407 of 2184 🔗

Brilliant.

196442 Eddy, replying to Eddy, 27, #408 of 2184 🔗

Day 210 of “just flattening the curve” Good morning sane people.

196458 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Eddy, 6, #409 of 2184 🔗

Top of the morning to you. The arguments are all going our way. The media knows it, the government too. Even Andy Burnham is applying a sceptical gloss to his position.

196473 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to OKUK, 11, #410 of 2184 🔗

Isn’t amazing when you see anti-lockdown arguments in the media being treated as if they are new discoveries when they were exactly what we were saying all the way back in March?

196595 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Eddy, 3, #411 of 2184 🔗

Good morning fellow sceptic!!

Methinks the tide is turning.

196449 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #412 of 2184 🔗

One day I’ll wake up and discover this was all a horrible nightmare.

196592 ▶▶ annie, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #413 of 2184 🔗

I get that feeling too.

196457 davews, 11, #414 of 2184 🔗

I am having an ongoing discussion on another forum where although there are some leaning towards scepticism most are going along with the narrative. Following Arnie’s posts on here yesterday I commented

Regardless of your own views what I reported was a very clear instance that people’s lives have been lost by measures that are totally out of all proportion. Many businesses are going bust due to over-arching orders from above, the business has no say in the matter and the government hardly seems to care. We now have another lockdown in Wales coming up (I haven’t checked the figures yet but imagine like in Manchester they are fiddled) and many pubs and similar will close there and never reopen. London’s West End is deserted. The suicide of that gent made me almost in tears but the same thing is being repeated, often unheard, all over the country and world.Life as we know it has been destroyed and we must stop the nonsense NOW.

I have had no response yet.

196463 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 5, #415 of 2184 🔗

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-news-wales-lockdown-breaker-cases-deaths/ (paywall) but despite webpage address it is headed “Coronavirus latest news: Evidence for mask wearing ‘very weak’, Swedish expert claims”. It includes “Speaking to the BBC Radio 4 Today programme, Mr Tegnell said: “Unfortunately, the evidence between using masks in society is very weak… we don’t really have a good idea of where they should be used, (and) to what extent.”.Would have preferred “Fortunately” but I’ll live with that.

196486 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to arfurmo, 2, #416 of 2184 🔗

There is absolutely no evidence masks work in real world settings where people are constantly fiddling withe and stuffing them in pockets with used handkerchiefs. Any evidence for them relates to hospital settings and lab tests.

196512 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to arfurmo, 5, #417 of 2184 🔗

The evidence is that mask wearing does not reduce the contaminant environment, in fact it often increases it. From trials in surgery the amount of wound contamination i.e. transferring contaminants to others, either stays the same or goes up. It doesn’t go down.

So when you wear a mask to protect someone else you are actually increasing the chances of spreading. It’s counter intuitive at first glance but makes sense. You are creating a larger resevoir of contamination that will then be disseminated by various transport mechanisms. In a non-sterile environment that involves touching and folding as well as aerosols.

It involves fomites – your clothes and surfaces you touch. Not that the virus exposed will last, but that you don’t ever deposit pure virus. You deposit dust and dead skin.

In food safety, this is why you wear gloves and hair nets. To reduce transference of fluid and particles that may carry infection.

196514 ▶▶ Mike, replying to arfurmo, 9, #418 of 2184 🔗

I had a hilarious team call yesterday, where one of my colleagues indicated that he had recently come down with cold. Being the good little sheep that he is he had dutifully been wearing his mask, washing his hands and keeping his distance. He made sure to emphasise to the rest of the team that ‘it just goes to show you can still catch it even with all these precautions’. I waited for the lightbulb moment to occur, but it never did. He doubled down on the mask/washing/distancing to mumbles of agreement from the rest of the team on the call. The complete lack of self awareness and rational thought is staggering…I’ve given up trying with these people.

196580 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to arfurmo, 1, #419 of 2184 🔗

Even the BMA admitted this in writing last week.

196465 nickbowes, replying to nickbowes, 1, #420 of 2184 🔗

I normally mute the telly when the ads are on but last night i did notice (was it NHS) something about 21-30 being the decade of “health”. What is this.

196476 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to nickbowes, #421 of 2184 🔗

Yes. Heard it on the radio. A real rib tickler.

196493 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to nickbowes, 1, #422 of 2184 🔗

http://Www.decade of health.co.uk

Read all about it

196522 ▶▶ CGL, replying to nickbowes, 4, #423 of 2184 🔗

I was going to comment about this – you beat me to it! Those ads are really creepy. My ‘Propagandar’ seems to be picking up more and more traffic these days.

196544 ▶▶▶ nickbowes, replying to CGL, 1, #424 of 2184 🔗

One thing for sure -i doubt it will improve the “health” of the many.

196649 ▶▶ dhpaul, replying to nickbowes, 4, #425 of 2184 🔗

Yes, google who is behind this and it includes none other than our old trusted friend Bill Gates.

196871 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to nickbowes, #426 of 2184 🔗

Somehow I do not think they came up with this in the last few months. That has been planned since before March.

196491 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to GuyRich, 4, #428 of 2184 🔗

Very useful, thanks.

I used to follow John Harris (who unfortunately is no longer with us) around 10 years ago and this is when I first learned about common law and how it is superior to statue law (and how parliament is not allowed to change it).

This was my only reason for voting yes to Brexit (which I regretted doing, but am now glad I did) because under civil law (EU), the state is all-powerful.

Unfortunately, most of the robots in the Police don’t have a clue what the difference between common law and statute law is (which is an act of fraud on their part) – and it seems most MPs have not got a clue either.

Any UK police officer who attempts to enforce these ridiculous laws (that go against common law) should also be spending time in prison.

Take their names and numbers. When judgement day comes, they might find themselves in a spot of bother.

If it never comes, then we’re all dead anyway.

196494 ▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to captainbeefheart, 1, #429 of 2184 🔗
196545 ▶▶▶▶ GuyRich, replying to captainbeefheart, 1, #430 of 2184 🔗

Thanks, I’ll check this out. I have been watching and reading the website of Graham Moore (Daddy Dragon). He talks all things constitution, common law etc.

https://daddydragon.co.uk/

196578 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to captainbeefheart, 3, #431 of 2184 🔗

If you do end up in court defending your non-acceptance of a FPN you can sue this defence:

Nuremberg Principle IV :

“The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him.”

You have been subjected to a crime against humanity:

  • Persecution against an identifiable group – for those with an exemption from masks
  • Other inhumane acts of a similar character intentionally causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or to mental or physical health – for everyone
196589 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #432 of 2184 🔗

Nuremberg looms.
Oh yes.

196652 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to captainbeefheart, 2, #433 of 2184 🔗

UK Column has much on common law, it can be hard to follow, but worth it.

196475 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 5, #434 of 2184 🔗

I wish to complain, Toby. Alf Tupper, “tough of the track”, was a boyhood hero of mine, albeit a hero made of ink and improbable storylines…I take great offence at the suggestion the Kneeler-in-Chief, Starmer, in anyway resembles that fine exemplar of northern grit and spirit.

196659 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to OKUK, #435 of 2184 🔗

The tough of the track, powered by fish n chips!

196477 mhcp, replying to mhcp, #436 of 2184 🔗

I see on TalkRadio that Wasps may have to forfeit their place in the Rugby Premiership as players have tested positive. Because those were the rules, dear boy.

And the team that they beat, Bristol, will replace them.

Hahaha

196488 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to mhcp, 2, #437 of 2184 🔗

Oh no, don’t tell me that wasps can get coronavirus too!

196586 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Achilles, #438 of 2184 🔗

I think it’s called The Sting.

196489 ▶▶ chaos, replying to mhcp, #439 of 2184 🔗

clown world….

196478 earthkiss, replying to earthkiss, 13, #440 of 2184 🔗

Just mulling this over in my head and wanted to share…

Out shopping yesterday with my partner and decided that I would film people wearing masks, but due to the current snowflake culture I thought I’d just pretend 😉

Into Lidl we go with my phone held to my chest and started to make obvious moves that appeared as though I was filming people, all the while with a non threatening smile.

The looks were priceless ranging all the way from confusion to shame to even a masked smile from a nice girl.

Then a young man made a move to walk past me in the isle quite close and upon seeing the phone leaped back and apologized profusely. I continued to pretend to film him and told him not to worry as there wasn’t a deadly plague (Hancock Johnson’s words) and he responded in a very odd social media friendly way as if trying his best not to say anything out of line. Then I told him you don’t have to wear a mask and that he could take it off, to which he responded “Oh yes, it’s just an advisory and not law” all the while exhibiting an odd body language of leaping from one foot to the other.

Next we hit Tkmax with a young boy on the door. I had my phone ready as we neared the front of the queue. My turn and I was asked do I have a mask. I replied “No” to which he mumbled something like “you need one”. I then said I’m exempt and made sure he was aware of the potential filming, to which he suddenly winced “no problem” and exhibited the same strange body language something akin to a turtle retracting into it’s shell. Walking into the shop I just couldn’t help myself and said “The pandemic is over”. “Yeah right” came the sneering derisory reply.

Can anyone explain this bizarre behaviour?

It seems the camera easily forces introspection from weak minded individuals.

196799 ▶▶ calchas, replying to earthkiss, 2, #441 of 2184 🔗

Fascinating – if people belive their actions and words are cconsciously being recorded, then they scrutinize themselves more.

196480 chaos, #442 of 2184 🔗

Unless I am missing something.. how will they roll out The WEF Great Fuck up if not all countries are onboard with the madness e.g. Sweden? Or are they onboard in other ways? And China surely will just keep growing and growing and using coal etc to do so?

196481 alw, replying to alw, #443 of 2184 🔗

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8857617/Coronavirus-UK-Working-lunches-EXEMPT-Tier-2-Tier-3-lockdowns.html

The government clearly does not understand its own tax rules. You cannot charge working business lunches for tax purposes, either one person has to pay for the entire lunch or people have to pay individually. One person paying for a business lunch can also be viewed as a bribe.

196507 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to alw, 2, #444 of 2184 🔗

The point isn’t about people eating out on expenses, it is whether restaurants can accept custom from groups who claim they are having a business lunch/dinner. Makes no difference to the venue who is stumping up the cash .

196483 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 8, #445 of 2184 🔗

We have been on a punishment regime since March. We complied and let them beat us. Where did that get us? They beat us more

The rapist’s dad has come up with further punishments

When they don’t work he will scream at us for failing and beat us further

Who is he? He’s just a sniveling creep

Time for action.

Better to die in the cause than take anymore of this

196582 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, 2, #446 of 2184 🔗

I’m not taking any more of it.
Fact.

196485 chaos, replying to chaos, 5, #447 of 2184 🔗

For those that haven’t seen this. Those consultants paid thousands.. McKinsey, Deloitte, BCG.. all have WEF Davos pages on their websites and attend Davos. For example..

https://www.bcg.com/world-economic-forum/default

196511 ▶▶ claire, replying to chaos, 3, #448 of 2184 🔗
196531 ▶▶ matt, replying to chaos, -2, #449 of 2184 🔗

Virtually every company of any significance attends Davos. This is irrelevant guff.

196571 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to matt, #450 of 2184 🔗

and they all have WEF pages eh? You are the guff.

196616 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to chaos, 2, #451 of 2184 🔗

Some do, some don’t. These are consulting firms, they think it’s “thought leadership”.

197755 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to matt, -1, #452 of 2184 🔗

Everyone is doing it, so they can’t all be criminal scum?

Yeah, and most people believe covid is deadly and dangerous, so they can’t all be stupid!

Grow the fuck up. Stop defending ‘companies’ just because you fancy yourself one of them. They wouldn’t piss on you if you were on fire.

196498 Londo Mollari, replying to Londo Mollari, 4, #453 of 2184 🔗

Penalties for attending church in Wales. This is communism.

196503 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Londo Mollari, 10, #454 of 2184 🔗

Presumably with the church authorities just meekly accepting it as usual, because they are far too busy protesting Brexit or other political causes they personally espouse to bother dealing with actual worshippers.

196532 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Mark, 13, #455 of 2184 🔗

And Jesus said, “Where two or three are gathered in my name, that’s probably OK provided that they wear masks and stay two metres apart. And don’t sing. And don’t drink alcohol. But any more than that and I’m calling the police because honestly this virus is a killer and it scares me and what about the children and the elderly and who cares about the poor anyway?”
Gospel according to St. Justin of Canterbury and Sts. Patrick and Christopher of Cloud-Cuckoo-Land

196562 ▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Mark, 4, #456 of 2184 🔗

We know that many of the church “leaders” will go along with this. The Anglicans are worried about Brexit and the fact that the former Archbishop of York has not been elevated to the House of Lords. They say this is racist because he is a person of colour, and yet they say nothing about his negligent or wilful cover up of child abuse. This is all very reminiscent of such Old Testament writings as the Book of Jeremiah.

196579 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Londo Mollari, 3, #457 of 2184 🔗

Perhaps the dear person -of- colour Archbish could say a wee little word about the students that York University wants to roast to death?

197026 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Mark, #458 of 2184 🔗

Yes. Too busy slavishly following the Covid rules and hand wringing over Brexit and woke issues that they have betrayed their flock and Jesus’ teachings.

196509 ▶▶ Eddy, replying to Londo Mollari, #459 of 2184 🔗

At least the kids will be safe.

196521 ▶▶ l835, replying to Londo Mollari, #460 of 2184 🔗

My church closed in march and hasn’t reopened. Not through lack of space for SDing, but clerical bed wetting over being sued for not disinfecting properly.

196559 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Londo Mollari, #461 of 2184 🔗

Matt Hancock hates Jesus. Fact.

196567 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #462 of 2184 🔗

I think we’re at the stage now where he thinks he is Jesus. He believes that he has personally saved thousands of lives remember.

197018 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Achilles, #463 of 2184 🔗

He’s not the Messiah, he’s just a very naughty boy.

197360 ▶▶▶▶ TT, replying to Achilles, #464 of 2184 🔗

Wake me up when we get to the crucifixion stage (don’t want to miss that)…

196513 earthkiss, replying to earthkiss, 2, #466 of 2184 🔗

Another observation…

Why is the 2 week Welsh lockdown for the “deadly plague” only starting on Friday?

This means a lockdown over Bonfire Night weekend and we all know what Guy Fawkes attempted 😉

196572 ▶▶ annie, replying to earthkiss, 1, #467 of 2184 🔗

Hallowe’en too, of course.
Can’t have children having fun, oh dear no.

196517 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 11, #468 of 2184 🔗

Sweden’s top pandemic expert has claimed there is “very weak” evidence that mask wearing in society is effective.

Anders Tegnell, Sweden’s state epidemiologist, said it was “dangerous” to believe masks could make “huge difference” in the fight against Covid-19.

Speaking to the BBC Radio 4 Today programme, Mr Tegnell said: “Unfortunately, the evidence between using masks in society is very weak… we don’t really have a good idea of where they should be used, (and) to what extent.”

He added that despite a lot of European countries making masks mandatory they are now experiencing a surge in cases.

“I think it’s dangerous to believe that masks will make a huge difference when you have an epidemic like this one,” he said.

Sweden is also considering reducing restrictions for its elderly and shielding population, he added, and the country’s increase in cases has been “slowing down”.

196525 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Jay Berger, 5, #469 of 2184 🔗

Make that man king of the world

196557 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 2, #470 of 2184 🔗

Well with the wholesale abandonment of science and enlightenment in the rest of the world I can only see a slow descent in to savagery where we end up up as semi-sentient cattle looked after by our benevolent blonde masters, so you may get your wish eventually.

196596 ▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Achilles, #471 of 2184 🔗

The vaccine may help that scenario become reality.

196546 ▶▶ Sally, replying to Jay Berger, #472 of 2184 🔗

So the reports that they’re going to start local lockdowns were crap, like the first time that was reported?

196554 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Sally, #473 of 2184 🔗

I too would like an answer to this. From what I’ve seen the new powers are for local officials to “make recommendations” that people don’t mix or visit certain venues. Hardly local lockdown but I have been pounced on by bedwetters who have relished this “news” and I’d like to be able to ram it back down their throats with a quote from the big man himself.

196553 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Jay Berger, 3, #474 of 2184 🔗

My advice ref challenging masks is that for anywhere you go that asks you to wear a face covering use their own Risk Assessment which justifies their masks against them !

Everywhere you go, politely challenge it.

Eg. You have put a control measure in place to reduce transmission risk. But have you correctly assessed the risk posed by the control measure you have put in place ? Have you assessed the impact of loss of oxygen, mental trauma or physical risk from a face covering/ mask ?

The answer is always going to be “no” at which point the whole Risk Assessment they are using has become flawed and invalid. This applies to anywhere that has imposed masks, it cannot be evidenced based that the control in place is effective. It can be evidence based that the control can be harmful.

Of course the HSE risk assessment for Covid is wrong to begin with, but you can pull down a building by removing the bricks.

196587 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #475 of 2184 🔗

Just to upset everbody.The fastest growing company in the UK!
https://www.masksuk.com/

196519 Ewan Duffy, replying to Ewan Duffy, 7, #476 of 2184 🔗

The coup leaders in Dublin have generously allowed me, a single man living alone, to breach the 5km limit on travel to form a “support bubble” with my nearest family.

<sarc>I am so grateful to our Dear Leaders for this privilege.</sarc>

196526 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Ewan Duffy, 5, #477 of 2184 🔗

Keep us informed as to how compliant the Irish people turn out to be on this second occasion.

196762 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Ned of the Hills, 3, #478 of 2184 🔗

Seen a tweet from a gym owner in Galway saying they will not close. Hopefully they can become a real line of common defence across countries.

196520 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #479 of 2184 🔗

Manchester:Midday.
I thought “High noon” was a Western.

196547 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Fingerache Philip., #480 of 2184 🔗

I feel Burnham will fold.

196548 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Tom Blackburn, #481 of 2184 🔗

Yes,I do too.

196591 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Tom Blackburn, #482 of 2184 🔗

Some sort of financial deal and he will bend over.There are no honourable politicians.

196535 Mabel Cow, replying to Mabel Cow, 16, #483 of 2184 🔗

Here’s a badge based on today’s excess-home-deaths story.

Print it yourself or buy on Redbubble .

196555 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to Mabel Cow, 1, #484 of 2184 🔗

Love you Mabel. Will be buying. Arnie.

196566 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Arnie, #485 of 2184 🔗

Likewise.

196573 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Mabel Cow, 2, #486 of 2184 🔗

Funny. I just told Redbubble on social media to be ashamed of themselves for selling face masks for children. Child abuse, i said. But I just posted that image.

196624 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Londo Mollari, #487 of 2184 🔗

Yeah, I know. It’s pretty vile.

I initially planned an entire range of protest masks for children to wear at school, but after I let the idea sink in for a while, it made me feel sick.

As my sole concession, I created an I Do Not Consent mask for people who want to protest, but for whatever reason don’t feel that they can go bare faced.

Sadly Redbubble’s shipping costs for masks are absolutely outrageous, so I can’t in good conscience recommend buying one. If anyone knows of a more cost-effective print-on-demand service, please let me know.

196537 Leemc23, replying to Leemc23, 2, #488 of 2184 🔗

With SARS 1, MERS and SARS COV 2 in the last 20 years. And with it still likely easy to have a trip to a Far East wet market, what’s the probability of something else coming along next year that’s worse ? High. At that point every panic stricken member of society will be begging for a virus that has a 99.9% chance of not killing overall. Rather than be pleased this is nothing close to “bad” and celebrating how fortunate we are we have societies panicked into submission. It’s simply rather odd. And certainly not logical. Back in March we would have been begging to be this fortunate.

196551 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to Leemc23, 7, #489 of 2184 🔗

Ebola has a 90% death rate. Even with the best treatments available. These are real figures, dead bodies don’t lie.

Covid has a 0.04% death rate. And that’s using the governments manipulated and massively inflated figures.

Epidemic, pandemic, what? Where?

196542 Arnie, replying to Arnie, 102, #490 of 2184 🔗

Just wanted to say a big thank you for everybody’s response to the death of my business partner in Sunday. Dave’s twenty year old daughter has no other family, my seven year old said ‘can we adopt her Dad?’. She & her boyfriend will be joining our household for the foreseeable future. Together we’ll get through this.

PS. Dave’s suicide is a trigger point for me. I know it’s a bit late in the day but I have a burning anger that’s growing inside me about the contempt for and utter idiocy of what is happening to our country.

I noticed yesterday that the effect of what happened to Dave was like a stone in the pond, the waves rolling out & affecting others. I have received messages from others who have or are experiencing the same type of problem.

I think it’s fair to say that the biggest epidemic is not the covid crap but the mental health issues and inevitable suicides that are here now and growing, dare I say it, exponentially.

We will get through this, we will try to remain positive and we urge all of you to stay strong, to look after each other and continue to fight.

Thank you.

Arnie.

196549 ▶▶ Chris John, replying to Arnie, 13, #491 of 2184 🔗

Keep the fire of retribution smouldering, we can take turns violating Wanksocks rectum with a big juicy pineapple, spikes first

196581 ▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to Chris John, 26, #492 of 2184 🔗

Chris, I sometimes have to use a wheelchair, during some rather dark thoughts yesterday I tried to imagine, unsuccessfully, if given ten minutes in a locked room with Johnson or Wankcock how much of my wheelchair could be inserted into them.

I do wish upon them even a tiny amount of the pain that they have bestowed upon Dave’s daughter and my family. I pray to any god that will listen that this will happen.

Cheers, Arnie.

197445 ▶▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to Arnie, 4, #493 of 2184 🔗

As an amputee I would love the idea of kicking Wanksock so hard in the arse that he ends up being a slipper
Keep the faith

196779 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Chris John, 4, #494 of 2184 🔗

Ouch! Glad I’m on your side.

196550 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Arnie, 25, #495 of 2184 🔗

Hi Arnie, I’m glad you’re back 🙂 Please keep posting, we’ve all been thinking of you.

196560 ▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to captainbeefheart, 12, #496 of 2184 🔗

Thank you Captain. Sponsored by Kleenex at the moment. Not a good look. Got a growing fire in my belly…

196576 ▶▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Arnie, 10, #497 of 2184 🔗

I knew I should have brought shares in Kleenex, your story made me get through about a quarter of a box myself.

196599 ▶▶▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to captainbeefheart, 19, #498 of 2184 🔗

Hang in there Captain, I’m sorry to have upset you. I’m an eternal, ok nearly, optimist. Dave did 3 tours of Northern Ireland, he was a tough character. I didn’t see this coming but I can’t change it now. All I can do is try to make it right. And that starts with trying to stop anybody else feeling like we do right now. I’ve already had five emails since yesterday with similar stories. We’ve got work to do.

196563 ▶▶ annie, replying to Arnie, 22, #499 of 2184 🔗

God bless you,Arnie, for your goodness and courage, and God rest the soul of your partner.
We will not forget .

196615 ▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to annie, 14, #500 of 2184 🔗

Thank you Ann. No courage here I’m afraid. Feel very broken. Not that I matter that much, Dave’s daughter is our priority. It’s hard to think straight at the moment but I can see that this needs to be stopped. Nobody should be put in a position where suicide is the ‘best’ option. I have a fire burning in my belly now. I don’t want anybody else to feel like we feel. Not now or ever.

196650 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Arnie, 12, #501 of 2184 🔗

That fire is courage.

196602 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Arnie, 24, #502 of 2184 🔗

Arnie, what a lovely, lovely thing for your daughter to have said. I know we are all strangers on here, but I have found much strength and support from all contributors and I hope you do too.

Your post yesterday prompted me to send the final e-mail to my MP. Sadly, it wasn’t as visceral I as would have liked but I hope to god she got the message.

kh

196627 ▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to kh1485, 13, #503 of 2184 🔗

Thank you KH. I have a few choice words for our MP’s. I’ll wait until I can think a bit more clearly. You have been a stalwart through this covidfraud and I take great strength from you (& everybody on here).

We MUST not lose our humanity towards each other.

The kids are our future.

Be strong KH. Look after yourself, and ask for help if you need it. Ask me & I’ll come running that I promise.

Arnie.

196722 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Arnie, 11, #504 of 2184 🔗

Just catching up with your story Arnie. Don’t know what to say, but I think you’ll get it. I’m not active on any other forum, though I do look at a few. Is there anywhere else, where you could find truth, real facts, reasoned debate, vociferous comment yet with an open mind AND friendly support in terrible times? I doubt it. All the best to you, and to all those who fight the good fight. Together.

196759 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Arnie, 15, #505 of 2184 🔗

Like others have said on here, I will never forget your story. Ever. The suicide of your business partner is added to my list. There are now 8 suicides I have heard of in the last three month from random strangers who know somebody who has lost someone.

This is incredible as I don’t get out much and hardly ever talk to people. Just about everybody I have talked to since April, has a terrible tale to tell of lockdown carnage.

So sorry for all of you.

196771 ▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Arnie, 9, #506 of 2184 🔗

Arnie. Words seemed so inadequate – I couldn’t write yesterday. I am so appalled to hear such a tragedy and so sad to read the simply unimaginable dreadful experience that will affect you all and those all around and that you know for the rest of your life. I hope the compassion and empathy in taking in his daughter and BY will be healing for all of you – but it won’t seem like it now but you have each other in a unit. Time passes and the grief never leaves you but it changes. The very best wishes for you all for the future day by day.

196889 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Arnie, 5, #507 of 2184 🔗

Dear Arnie,
you are a good person that you are taking care of your friends’ daughter and her boyfriend. What an awful experience it must have been for them to find him.
Other people have expressed themselves better than I can, so I gave their comments a thumbs up.

196971 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Arnie, 5, #508 of 2184 🔗

To use your burning anger, Arnie, I suggest you gather people from here, a small team. They can:

  • set up a website
  • contact Sir Tom Moore (whose attitude sounds very similar to yours)
  • contact psychiatrists who are prepared to speak out (I’ve the email address for one such)
  • investigate legal action
  • gather more like-minded people
197037 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Arnie, 4, #509 of 2184 🔗

Many thanks for the update. Stay strong and your business partner’s daughter has gained a new family in you.

We will prevail in the end.

KBO.

197057 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Arnie, 7, #510 of 2184 🔗

Arnie, I’ve only just caught up on yesterday’s posts with this awful story. There’s nothing more I can say on here that hasn’t already been said, except maybe two things.

First, I guess there will be many, many people reading this story who don’t reply or post on here, but who will share the sense of burning anger already expressed here. To borrow your metaphor, stories like this will ripple out, further and deeper than we can now conceive.

Second, someone said the other day that they wear a mask out of respect for the people who have died of covid. I don’t wear a mask partly out of respect for all the people like your friend and the others who have suffered through this gigantic crime. Stories like yours simply reinforce my determination. Just got back from Morrisons, and yet again the only unmasked shopper. Stand up tall, look them in the eye: they’re the cowards; they’re the selfish ones; they’re the ones ‘who are killing people’.

This isn’t over simply when the lockdowns end. Those responsible must be brought to account, and measures put in place to ensure it can never, never happen again.

My best wishes to you and your family, and especially your friend’s daughter.

TJN

197143 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Arnie, 3, #511 of 2184 🔗

I’m so sorry to hear this Arnie.

196552 CGL, replying to CGL, 2, #512 of 2184 🔗

I’ve just had Facebook give a post the ‘false information’ treatment.

It was from OffGuardian about the WHO admitting that the IFR was lower than flu.

This did happen didnt it – has anyone got a link from anywhere less ‘controversial’?

196570 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to CGL, 5, #513 of 2184 🔗

Remind them that they have removed officially approved material. And that you will take legal action if it is not republished.

196575 ▶▶ earthkiss, replying to CGL, 1, #514 of 2184 🔗

Time to start obfuscating the urls.

OffGuardian -> [off] + [guardian] + [.com]

196606 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to earthkiss, 1, #515 of 2184 🔗

I’m not techie enough for that sort of shenanigans 🙁

196660 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to earthkiss, #516 of 2184 🔗

off hyphen guardian dot org

196671 ▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to earthkiss, #517 of 2184 🔗

I wonder if “tinyurls” are followed by facebook etc? (or do they just look at the link text without following any redirects etc)

http://www.tinyurl.com

196577 ▶▶ Ramesh, replying to CGL, 1, #518 of 2184 🔗

Try: Jamey Keaten, “WHO: 10% of world’s people may have been infected with virus,” AP, October 6, 2020, https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-archive-united-nations-54a3a5869c9ae4ee623497691e796083

196646 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Ramesh, #519 of 2184 🔗

Thank you!

196613 ▶▶ CGL, replying to CGL, #521 of 2184 🔗

I actually feel sort of proud – it’s a badge of honour now isnt it?

196618 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to CGL, #522 of 2184 🔗

Not really. Dr Mark Ryan said at a press conference on 12 October, in answer to the question

This is a question to Dr Ryan. Last week Dr Ryan announced – it was last Monday – that 10% of the world’s population might be infected by the COVID so the first question would be how do you get to that figure. With so many people infected do you suppose the fatality rate is much lower than we thought before and similar to the flu fatality rates?

So the question is, can we still say that COVID is more worrying than the flu?

the following

I made my remarks, I believe, at an executive board meeting with our member states where what I was actually trying to communicate was that the vast majority of human beings on this planet remain susceptible to the virus. I believe what I said was that many studies had demonstrated that 10% or less of people had been infected although that was very variable with some slum areas, high-risk populations like health workers being much higher.

So I was using that 90/10 as an illustration of the fact that most people in the world were susceptible. In fact in many countries that seroprevalence is very low but again what you have to remember is some of those seroprevalance studies were done a number of months ago.

What we currently have is a lot of work going on to summarise all of the serologic studies that have been done. We also have a series of unity studies which are longitudinal studies which are studying seroprevalance around the world or the number of people who have been infected much more systematically.

So from that perspective you can say that, if you look at some of these studies, on average 10% or less; in some it’s much less and in some studies much more.

followed by a colleague

The results indicate across all of these 150 studies that, as Mike has said, the vast majority are below 10% with the exception of some high-incidence areas that are above 20/25% and some even higher.

196633 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Richard Pinch, #523 of 2184 🔗

That’s what it says in the link, yes.

Didnt someone also say this week though that dr ionnidis March IFR findings had now been snuck in quietly too?

196700 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #524 of 2184 🔗

But wasn’t Ionnadis article

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/eci.13423

now published in WHO publication? He clearly has an IFR low total but also highlights the much higher IFR in elderly compared to flu.

196755 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to swedenborg, #525 of 2184 🔗

Think that was what I meant – you 2 are way beyond my primitive knowledge on this stuff.

196897 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to CGL, 1, #526 of 2184 🔗

Ryan’s comments at the press conference emphasised the range of IFR found in various studies in different settings.

Indeed, as I commented recently, the concept of a single “global” IFR doesn’t make too much sense. The concept of IFR for the UK population at large has some meaning, but even so, we know it’s hugely dependent on age, for example.

197691 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Richard Pinch, #527 of 2184 🔗

I find the concept of an IFR, especially with regard to covid-19, extremely problematic.

How do you define an infection?

(Even if we do manage to calculate and accurate fatality number, which given the mess that the death stats are in seems now most unlikely, although I will concede that had the numbers been recorded honestly it should have been possible.)

196757 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Richard Pinch, #528 of 2184 🔗

So it’s 10% but don’t focus on that, it’s 90% who haven’t been infected yet that’s the issue.

196899 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #529 of 2184 🔗

Quite so. If you’re thinking about how to protect the people who haven’t got it yet, the difference between 90% and 99% of the world’s population is not important. At the policy level, it’s “nearly everyone in the world” or “about 7 billion people”.

It reminds me of an anecdote told by John Allen Paulos, I think. He was asking a surgeon how safe an operation was. The answer went something like “It’s absolutely safe — one in a million chance of going wrong — you can be 99% confident”. Paulos said he stopped the surgeon at that point as the odds seemed to be getting worse by the minute. But as far as the surgeon was concerned, these were all synonymous — he meant, it was very safe indeed.

197696 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Richard Pinch, #530 of 2184 🔗

As Professor Ionnadis pointed out about 5 months ago in relation to New York: if 20% of New Yorkers have the antibodies, then nearly all New Yorkers have been in contact, and probably substantial contact, with someone who has the disease.

But they didn’t get it. Why???

197763 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to TJN, #531 of 2184 🔗

A good question. Various possibilities spring to mind. Given that NYC population mortality rate is about 0.25%, that’s consistent with an IFR of 0.8% and 20% infections. So, did infections level off at, say, 20% because of around 50% pre-existing immunity? Or was there significant heterogeneity? Or was the levelling off due to social restrictions?

One possible test is to recruit a large number of healthy young adult New Yorkers without antibodies for a challenge test and see whether it’s possible to infect them.

198088 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Richard Pinch, #532 of 2184 🔗

I’m going with T-cell or other immunity. Challenge test would be tricky because presumably most of the antibodies have gone by now, but the body remembers how to quickly regenerate them should the need arise. So how would we identify individuals to be tested.

My guess (no more) is that T-cell/other immunity levels may vary in the same person over time (e.g. depending on sleep/nutrition levels and general health), such that an individual may be immune one week, but susceptible a few weeks later, and vice versa.

I find it hard to think the levelling off was owing to social restrictions. At 20% infectivity the virus is out there and doing its thing, and it would be very difficult (i.e. mathematically improbable) for an individual to avoid coming into substantial contact with an infected person – which was the Professor’s point.

196790 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to CGL, 1, #533 of 2184 🔗

I think you can get around it like this: Screenshot the article, or the first part of the article, and share to FB as a photo, with the caption “link in the comments”. Then post the link as a comment.

196565 RichT, replying to RichT, 13, #534 of 2184 🔗

The hospital where my partner works has a few Corona Positive patients, all with massive comorbidities. I don’t think any have symptoms. One died recentley of a serious comorbidity, not corona, the Doctor put corona on the death certificate. This was questioned by other staff, but the Doctor still put corona on death cert. It was a bit of an eye-opener for her colleagues.

Sorry I cannot be more specific, but I must not identify in any way because of patient confidentiality and the high chance of her losing her job.

196588 ▶▶ earthkiss, replying to RichT, 5, #535 of 2184 🔗

This must be reported to MPs and Lawyers.

196594 ▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to earthkiss, 3, #536 of 2184 🔗

I personally think the time has passed when “reporting things to MPs” is going to make any difference. They know they’ve gone way too far and will now keep “doubling down” (or will invent some other “disaster” to keep us all distracted) to try and escape the long drop to the end of the rope.

Lawyers are probably 50/50 good/evil. It would be nice if there was a “Lawyers Against Lockdown” movement so we could tell who the good ones are…

196798 ▶▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to captainbeefheart, #537 of 2184 🔗
196628 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to earthkiss, 9, #538 of 2184 🔗

Don’t bother, they know and they don’t care.

Don’t wear a mask, ever, and don’t get tested.

196848 ▶▶▶ RichT, replying to earthkiss, 1, #539 of 2184 🔗

I told my partner that the medical profession is complicit in the deceit, not to make her feel bad as she already does. She would never work again if she came forward and lose the career she loves. There has to be a legal way to allow Doctors and Nurses to whistleblow, with no cosequence, surely?.

197055 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to RichT, #540 of 2184 🔗

Perhaps approach Toby Young, Simon Dolan and Anna Brees – the latter has her own YT channel which can publicise stories like this.

196760 ▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to RichT, 3, #541 of 2184 🔗

Spoke to someone outside the bank yesterday in the queue. She (a real sceptic too and thinks it is all nonsense) told me about a friends’ father recently died – nothing to do with the virus but the Dr put it on the death certificate as a matter of course. I’m assuming the restriction on releasing the body for burial/cremation is still in place – with the virus it gets released quickly? If that’s not on the Death certificate it takes weeks and weeks? Will someone here will confirm/correct me on this?

197414 ▶▶▶ Mutineer, replying to Keen Cook, 1, #542 of 2184 🔗

I’ve heard this, too. It’s particularly relevant for some faiths as they demand burial within 24 hours or so. If you don’t accept Covid-19 on the death cert it can take weeks for release of the body. It’s outrageous and I believe the deaths fro Covid-19 alone have been no higher than the many flu outbreaks we’ve already survived without even knowing about them.

196568 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 6, #543 of 2184 🔗

https://www.achgut.com/artikel/viraler_irrsinn_aufstand_der_experten

Germany has its own GBD now.
Those are no slouches, they can’t diffamate the signatories and supporters away (yet), as they include the equivalent of the head of the BMA, for example.

196684 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #544 of 2184 🔗

It is a pity there is not a translation of this manifest.Striking that the dissenters in the medical establishment was first in Germany and increasing steadily.The contrast with the “muzzled” medics in the UK is concerning especially within BMA or at influential positions within the medical establishment. Big pharma seems to control the UK medical establishment much more effectively than in Germany. Drosten is constantly attacked in Germany and his suspicious relations with Big Pharma for his PCR test.

196724 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to swedenborg, 3, #545 of 2184 🔗

There is the historical aspect also in Germany. The medical profession there is very, very watchful, and well done them.

196903 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to swedenborg, 3, #546 of 2184 🔗

German doctors were very quiet at the beginning. The professional bodies warned them off. Slowly there is a change.
The ex health minister years ago said in an interview that the Pharma lobby is so strong, politicians are in their hand.
An independent YT channel who broadcast a short video someone had sent them, including that clip, has had a strike and the video has been deleted.

196995 ▶▶▶ Adam, replying to swedenborg, 1, #547 of 2184 🔗

Towards the end of “Experts revolt against viral madness” they say:

This information can only mean that the epidemic is spreading practically unchecked in the population despite all the restrictions. A government open to advice could start here with a new briefing, a new narrative: We have to live with the epidemic, it will increase significantly in winter, let us protect and provide optimal care for our fellow citizens who are in particular danger. And one could do a simple modelling: with a double-digit prevalence, how long does a population need to achieve a respectable immunity status. This modelling could be limited to the metropolises, etc., in any case this would be a feasible way of showing the population a perspective, and an end to the crisis can be forecast.

196593 cloud6, replying to cloud6, 2, #548 of 2184 🔗

I have read that Health Secretary Matt Handcock has been (twice) caught breaking the Law/Rules? of his Governments regulations.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/10/20/matt-hancock-pictured-without-face-mask-in-back-of-chauffeur-driven-vehicle-13448656/

Where can you make an official complaint to the Police so he can be investigated and prosecuted for his crimes.

or is it one law for them and another for us.

196620 ▶▶ Basics, replying to cloud6, 2, #549 of 2184 🔗

And the vit d study that wasn’t lie to our house.

And the whole entire covid episode.

Enemy of people.

His displays answering questions at the dispatch box are disgusting. He has a manner about him as an untouchable.

196720 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to cloud6, #550 of 2184 🔗

But, but, it’s only guidance…

196737 ▶▶ muzzle, replying to cloud6, #551 of 2184 🔗

Could it be argued that it is his workplace?

196604 Chloe, replying to Chloe, 5, #552 of 2184 🔗

Working lunches of up to 30 people could be excluded from current restrictions.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8857617/Coronavirus-UK-Working-lunches-EXEMPT-Tier-2-Tier-3-lockdowns.html

So you can only catch the virus if you meet in a pub or restaurant for social reasons, but you can’t catch it if you are working?

196819 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Chloe, 1, #553 of 2184 🔗

Is this so MPs can still go out for lunch…?

197056 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Chloe, #554 of 2184 🔗

Goes to show how this virus is very clever.

196608 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 13, #555 of 2184 🔗

Have any of the sanctimonious arses calling for the vulnerable to be protected actually asked any of them if they want to be protected and end up in isolation, away for loved ones and friends, away from all social contact living in a nicely appointed prison cell to extend a not-quite life? It sounds compulsory is coming.

To me that is not living you are just not dead yet.

I’ll take my chances and die a bit younger – ditto for Mrs Awkward who is in the vulnerable group and who refuses to go along with it.

We’ve also both agreed no hospitals, no treatment, no resuscitation, no care homes and so on.. We’ll manage for ourselves as the system sucks and once in it you never get out of it.

Yesterday’s picture from outside the nursing home, they should have had their masks removed as well to make a real point.

196614 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #556 of 2184 🔗

I don’t know whether there is a national advocacy service that could/should be collating these views. I would hazard a guess that close to 100% of care home residents are thoroughly miserable.

196619 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Awkward Git, 9, #557 of 2184 🔗

This was one of my first questions to my MP months ago – did anyone ask if anyone wanted protecting???

The sole definition of life cannot be the avoidance of death. I am much more scared of not living, than I am of dying.

196721 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to CGL, 2, #558 of 2184 🔗

There are lots of them out there. They seem to think life comes with zero risk. Cradle to Uni To Job To Car To House To 2.4 Children To Grandkids To Pension To Contented Death

Anything less is a travesty. Stay safe.

196639 ▶▶ annie, replying to Awkward Git, 9, #559 of 2184 🔗

You and your wife will do just fine, AG.
So shall I. So shall we all.
We will LIVE. Not a living death, but a true life.

197433 ▶▶ Mutineer, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #560 of 2184 🔗

I am old and I have cancer. I can certainly look after myself better than the woeful NHS who discharged my age group from hospital into so called ‘care’ homes with DNAR’s on their heads. It was murder. Now they want the rest of us that are still in our own homes dead. Simple as that. I refuse to be muzzled although wear an exemption as I can’t bear the finger wagging. My biggest fear is that my husband and I could get too sick to cope and then might end up ‘culled’ by the Govt. I’d rather euthanise myself than let them kill me but that’s against the law. They can lock you away, refuse you medical care and yet you cannot kill legally yourself. Like you, we’ve decided to end it together should the worst happen.

196609 Basics, 12, #561 of 2184 🔗

Yesterday Nigel Farage added this short video to his yt channel: https://youtu.be/lYb88giF_sw

In it Farage takes about what he sees as the state of tge UK nation. Regardles covids, the first item he covers, he suggests a public turning point is coming.

Farage has been proven in the past to understand a little about Joe n Jo public.

196610 BeBopRockSteady, 1, #562 of 2184 🔗

A good sceptics piece on Hector Drummond regarding New Zealand and the lunacy of Zero Covid
https://hectordrummond.com/2020/10/16/the-new-zealand-story/

196611 TyRade, replying to TyRade, 3, #563 of 2184 🔗

Re the Leeds contentment with statuary. There’s one of a bloke on a massive horse in the middle of City Square …. The Black Prince. Quota of virtue signals long met.

196795 ▶▶ peter, replying to TyRade, 1, #564 of 2184 🔗

Have you seen the all black police vans in Leeds? The most demented virtue signalling I’ve witnessed so far, especially from the filthy pigs.

196612 wat tyler, replying to wat tyler, 6, #565 of 2184 🔗

I would imagine Starmer love’s to be compared to Alf Tupper .Tupper is one of our great working class comic book hero’s ,he’s a poor lad who becomes a great footballer and always stands up to bullies and always saves the day . Such a shame that an uncanny resemblance is all they share as at a time when we need an opposition to step up to the plate Starmer is revealed as completely cowardly and useless .

196636 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to wat tyler, 3, #566 of 2184 🔗

Alf Tupper-Tough of the track-existing on a diet of fish and chips

196794 ▶▶ wat tyler, replying to wat tyler, 1, #567 of 2184 🔗

Sorry runner not footballer i must be going mad today ,ha ha

197282 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to wat tyler, #568 of 2184 🔗

Actually, wat, if I recall correctly, Alf Tupper was a footballer for a while. He played alongside Bernard Briggs (goalie who never let a goal in) when he (Briggs) bought an old oilrig (I think it was) and made it a country and entered it into a football tournament.

I’m 59 and still remember this from my childhood; happy days indeed.

196626 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 5, #569 of 2184 🔗

On the 16th of July the Irish government announced masks would be mandatory in shops – on that day the Irish Republic had 21 cases.

From what I observed there was almost instant compliance, but it didn’t actually become law until the 10th August when there was 57 cases.

On the 18th of this month, two months on, there was 1,283 cases.

So that plolicy has worked well then!

(In fairness I believe there has been a lot more testing – hence all the cases. In August there was a Covid death every three days – this month it has so far been closer to eight. Mask wearing is clearly not a panacea.)

196640 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Ned of the Hills, 4, #570 of 2184 🔗

But, if they hadn’t worn muzzles, there would have been another 500,000 cases!!

196692 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #571 of 2184 🔗

This. It’s the policy trap that inevitably results from a lack of real evidence to support it.

196629 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 10, #572 of 2184 🔗

Strange ain’t it that the more obese and unhealthy maskateers are, they are the ones who if you come within 20 yards of them “huff and puff” and risk crossing a dual carriageway or jump into the nearest hedge to avoid us, as if us healthy maskless ones are a danger to their “lardarse” life styles.

196641 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #573 of 2184 🔗

Their bad mental health which they are riddled with is highly infectious!

196643 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #574 of 2184 🔗

The very epitome of stupidity is the mask wearing smoker.

196715 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Sam Vimes, #575 of 2184 🔗

You said it.
I wonder if coke heads do the same?

196642 2 pence, replying to 2 pence, 2, #576 of 2184 🔗

The absolute state of this Globalist buffoon openly admitting that 93% of COVID tests are false. Share this with any #MuzzleMuppets and brainwashed #Sheeple out there who believe the bullshit!

https://twitter.com/TomWho4/status/1318234159467331585

196663 ▶▶ Basics, replying to 2 pence, 2, #577 of 2184 🔗

Clicked your link, twitter tells me something went wrong – try again. This is the same message I’ve been getting trying to access Simon Dolan twitter over the past week. Other twitter no problem.

196682 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Basics, #578 of 2184 🔗

Just highlight in your box at the top and hit enter, that normally works.

196690 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Basics, 3, #579 of 2184 🔗

I’ve had this too, with Simon’s page. Takes two or three refreshes to get it to load. Used to get it with Tommy Robinson’s page as well. Surprise, surprise.

196704 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, #580 of 2184 🔗

Emptied cache recently?

197304 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to 2 pence, #581 of 2184 🔗

Toby needs to get that on the front page. You should mail that link to him.

196645 Humanity First, replying to Humanity First, #582 of 2184 🔗

Comment by ‘Thom’ on Off-Guardian:

“Britain only breaks international law when the US tells us too, whether it is Iraq, Syria or Brexit. We are like the weedy boy at school trying to prove himself to the school bully. Boris Johnson and his vassal regime are quite prepared to ruin the country and its reputation over Brexit and the coronavirus scam because that’s what their American controllers have told them to do.

The conflicting stories and agonised indecision of late are the result of the rulers being unsure how to sell these twin scams and disasters to the British people .”

196781 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Humanity First, #583 of 2184 🔗

That’s a pretty crap take.

196653 Marvin42, replying to Marvin42, 5, #584 of 2184 🔗

If it is still on in 50 years time, I wonder how CBBC’s ‘Horrible Histories’ will portray 2020!
I suspect lots of things which look really crazy with the cartoon rat on popping up on overtime with his “This is True” sign!

196705 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Marvin42, 4, #585 of 2184 🔗

If we do get out of this with our freedom in tact the whole episode will be talked about in the same vein as the Salem Witch Trials.

196846 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Marvin42, 1, #586 of 2184 🔗

Horrible Histories tend to be pretty woke in their interpretation of history (google “horrible histories controversy”) so it wouldn’t be the truth

196654 Basics, replying to Basics, 9, #587 of 2184 🔗

What is pleasing about lineker is that because of his shallow ‘influencer’ role his myriad of followers all now get to brain process the hypocracy.

True in might be like trying to unfreeze the North West passage with a kettle of hot water but it is a start. Once seen that hypocracy lodges in the brain.

Lineker supplied it all for free too, something he never does. The more ghouls like him walk about in hypocracy the better.

196664 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Basics, 8, #588 of 2184 🔗

Lineker’s problem is he is thick and ill-informed about most issues he just doesn’t have the cognitive capacity to realise that.

196699 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to JHuntz, 11, #589 of 2184 🔗

Lineker problem is from the age of 16 he has been cosseted from real life as experienced by millions of people,first as a pro footballer and now as a very well paid TV presenter.
He is also a smug prick

196860 ▶▶ Adam, replying to Basics, 4, #590 of 2184 🔗

Rather than accuse Lineker of hypocrisy, here, we could maybe welcome his unmasked shopping as showing a welcome change of mind.

He perhaps now understands that masks don’t do anything except signal compliance with emergency powers which have been messing with our lives for too long.

Misguided policies enacted under these powers have resulted widespread suffering and in the preventable deaths of thousands of people. This toll will rise.  It is important to signal that one now understands this and does not approve. Not in my name. Therefore, no mask.

So, don’t accuse Lineker of hypocrisy, perhaps.  Encourage people to follow his lead.

196915 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Basics, 3, #591 of 2184 🔗

Saw another man unmasked in the supermarket yesterday, beamed a big smile at him, he did not respond. Maybe he just forgotten his, quickly going on the way home from work for some essentials?
Btw, the young girl at the check out asked me if I had forgotten my mask as she handed me my receipt. I was gobsmacked, I am about to leave, and NOW you ask me?

197073 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Basics, #592 of 2184 🔗

Lineker lives in la-la land, cushioned by his wealth and job. I seriously doubt that he’s aware of his hypocrisy.

196661 Sam Vimes, 2, #593 of 2184 🔗

Is Burnham a ‘Man of Action’? I’m not sure, his hair looks painted on, but he definitely has ‘gripping hands’…

196665 Staincliffe, replying to Staincliffe, 21, #594 of 2184 🔗

Here’s a positive green shoot in the Guardian. Zoe Williams has a piece on lockdowns etc (government’s fault people don’t comply – obviously – it’s the Guardian after all) and there is this thoughtful comment that I’ve copied below. It has over 100 upticks and no serious dissent.

Wee162 18h ago

110

111

Have seen so much comment BTL of late equating making a choice between “citizens vs economy” as somehow a “Tory thing”. This is so hilariously misguided it’s untrue – as if the two were separable. The economy is not some concrete “thing”, rather it’s a term denoting the abstract set of systems, practices and choices that we all live in. Stop and ask yourself if you have ever complained about the death toll of austerity, and you’ll get my drift. The death toll of the worst depression for hundreds of years, which is what we are currently ushering in, will make austerity look like a picnic, and is also (IMO) going to usher in a mental health crisis the like of which we’ve never seen before. But because these deaths and deleterious effects are less easily identifiable and thus less easily quantifiable, and are also “deferred” a bit further down the line, no one seems that bothered. Rather, the Covid numbers are now literally all that matters, it appears.
It’s my honest opinion that the current strategy of endlessly deferring the inevitable passage of the virus through the population, in the vague hope that science will provide the magic bullet of a vaccine, is now at least worthy of a reassessment and reevaluation. Ity’s surely clear now that viruses gonna virus, basically. So the question remains, to my mind: what’s the objective now? What are we trying to achieve, other than delaying the inevitable?
I ask, because if you expand the question from pure epidemiology to a more holistic understanding of public health, then we are faced with a choice, admittedly a hard one, but an unavoidable choice nevertheless. An epidemiologist’s views are valuable and more than worthy of consideration, but they ultimately see the population as effectively data points on a graph, and devise strategies to alter those numbers in various directions and with various aims.
But there are more considerations than simply mere numbers: what of the futures of our school leavers and graduates? What about the absolutely catastrophic levels of unemployment that are coming inexorably down the pipe? And the associated costs of that devastation in both economic terms and in lives? What about whole sectors of both the economy and life in general that are currently being tossed aside as unviable in the New Normal?: sport, the arts, hospitality, etc, not to mention the simple joy of having your family and friends around to your house – aren’t these the very things that make working worth doing, and indeed life worth living? Are they now to be considered unavoidably (and in apparent perpetuity) casualties of a virus that, while of course highly contagious and lethal to a small percentage of people, is hardly the bubonic plague?
And before anyone steams in with the predictable and fatuous rejoinder “YoU dOn’T CarE AboUt LiVes”, of course I do. But the fact is that Covid victims are very definitely not the only lives at stake now, far from it. All I am suggesting is that, IMHO, a hard but necessary conversation is long overdue about how to go forward, which entails 1) setting out a clear objective that does not ignore the reality that this virus cannot be eradicated, and also relatedly 2) an acknowledgment that we cannot endlessly (and ultimately futilely) kick the can down the road while incurring an increasingly cataclysmic (and in the case of some sectors likely irreversible) toll on the economy, because that is what ultimately underpins civil society itself.
There’s no reason to my mind, for example, that we can’t consider a strategy that focuses our efforts on protecting/shielding the small strata of people to whom Covid presents a clear and present danger – ie the elderly and those with co-morbidities – and let everyone else get moving again before the whole show gets crashed into a tree. The adoption of some general adjustments to behaviour – eg handwashing, masks in the supermarkets and on buses, etc – are also eminently plausible, and could and should be adopted without much resistance by all but the most cabin-in-the-woods libertarian crackpots.
But you simply cannot stop human beings mixing, mingling, bustling, hugging, bumping and grinding indefinitely, so this endless oscillation between lockdown, lockdown-lite, and arbitrary restrictions that are slowly killing the economy has to stop sometime – the only question is when.
I don’t personally think it’s “callous”, “selfish”, or indeed “trolling” to be thinking about these questions, quite the opposite in fact. It’s just realistic .”

196672 ▶▶ Anthony, replying to Staincliffe, 5, #595 of 2184 🔗

Brilliant

196678 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Staincliffe, 2, #596 of 2184 🔗

I’m amazed they didn’t “moderate” this… Maybe their moderation algorithm is broken again!

196687 ▶▶▶ Anthony, replying to captainbeefheart, 3, #597 of 2184 🔗

Yes, I recently made a perfectly reasonable comment about acquired immunity – it was removed within seconds along with my ability to post any future comments.

196710 ▶▶▶▶ Staincliffe, replying to Anthony, 2, #598 of 2184 🔗

Yes, I tried to post a reply to the comment asking why Guardian journalists didn’t show a bit more intellectual curiosity and address the wider secondary aspects but it was removed.

196944 ▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Staincliffe, 3, #599 of 2184 🔗

I’m not sure not being in favour of masks, with the complete absence of convincing scientific evidence for their efficacy, makes me a “cabin-in-the-woods libertarian crackpot”.
It makes me a rational human being.

198212 ▶▶ chris c, replying to Staincliffe, 1, #600 of 2184 🔗

YOUR KILLING GRANNY!!!!!

Seriously, excellent

196674 Hieronimusb, replying to Hieronimusb, 9, #601 of 2184 🔗

It’s not a pandemic or a plandemic, it’s a hamdemic – I’ve never heard so many porkies.

196731 ▶▶ Hieronimusb, replying to Hieronimusb, 3, #602 of 2184 🔗

..or seen such dreadful acting!

196679 JHuntz, replying to JHuntz, 2, #603 of 2184 🔗

So my work colleague mentioned that he has had a COVID test today. He hasn’t been off so we were surprised and asked how he was feeling. Well he is perfectly healthy and is doing it as part of a survey. It appears we now deliver test kits that go down into your tonsils and up into your brain like some sort of ubereats service.

196685 ▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to JHuntz, 3, #604 of 2184 🔗

It’s the numbers. They need NUMBERS.

196686 ▶▶ CGL, replying to JHuntz, 1, #605 of 2184 🔗

I’ll tell you who’s mad!!

196694 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to JHuntz, 2, #606 of 2184 🔗

He is such a numpty.

196820 ▶▶ mjr, replying to JHuntz, 4, #607 of 2184 🔗

NHS/Mori have been issuing letters out for weeks now inviting people to participate in the “survey” and offering money to do it. Means testing monthly for 6 months.

I have had the letters and wiped my behind with them.

Given the false positives etc. you must be an idiot to volunteer for a test that could result in being imprisoned for two weeks

196840 ▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to mjr, 3, #608 of 2184 🔗

This is the most insane part people get tested that leads to them being locked down.

196680 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #609 of 2184 🔗

Bunter and his London Chums now have a solid gold get-out: “Other illnesses and economic damage have become a serious threat to the nation, we must now change tack…”

By not using it, they prove (as if they had to) that there is another agenda.

196698 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #610 of 2184 🔗

“… we must now change tack and impose a harsher and stricter lockdown so we can finally defeat this virus before its too late. Three weeks of total lockdown enforced by the army with permission to shoot rule breakers on sight will therefore commence on Friday. Exercise will also be sacrificed for the greater good and food rations will be delivered so there is no excuse for anyone to be outside of their home.”

196777 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Saved To Death, 2, #611 of 2184 🔗

Quite. This just in on the Sheep-O-Gram: “It’s only three weeks and if it saves one life…”

197114 ▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #612 of 2184 🔗

With 100 excess deaths per day being caused by lockdown, those three weeks will cost 2,100 deaths.

With a daily average deaths-with-SARS-CoV-2 of 28 (average over the 14 weeks to 2020-10-02), we should expect 588 deaths.

Net deaths caused by lockdown: 1,512.

Using the sheep logic of “if it saves one life”, surely they should be calling to end all lockdowns?

196967 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Saved To Death, 1, #613 of 2184 🔗

Some idiot had a letter in Metro recently suggesting that policy – and I don’t think he was being sarcastic.

198221 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Saved To Death, 1, #614 of 2184 🔗

Every time he claims he doesn’t want a second lockdown I just know one is coming.

196681 BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 5, #615 of 2184 🔗

Another Hector Drummond article. PCR Testing processes this time. A comment on there sums it up perfectly:

“So in summary, something which shouldn’t be used a test for a harmless virus for about 99% of the population, that creates false positive results in a high proportion of cases, is being used in poor conditions with untrained staff. On the back of that decisions are made to ruin people’s lives.

How bad exactly does this need to get before there are good grounds for legal action against those responsible?”

https://hectordrummond.com/2020/10/13/the-chaos-in-the-uk-sars-cov-2-testing-system/

196835 ▶▶ Alan P, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #616 of 2184 🔗

If we have tested 250-300k people everyday, then in 3 months 25 million people have been tested. That is almost 40% of UK population.

Or are people getting tested multiple times……

196924 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Alan P, #617 of 2184 🔗

I was doing that calculation yesterday as well. Of course people get tested multiple times. But it still is a very large number.
Heard an interview with someone in Australia last week, he was wondering how soon they will start testing everyone for the second and third time to keep up the numbers.

196972 ▶▶▶▶ Alan P, replying to Silke David, #618 of 2184 🔗

And the returns of positive tests which are false due to a number of different causes (statistical, poor lab conditions, over vigorous cycle testing… the list is almost endless!) is what the government et al are basing their strategy on.

196683 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 1, #619 of 2184 🔗

I know it’s preaching to the converted, but if anybody you know has any doubts, MAKE them listen to Dr Mike Yeadon’s podcast with James Delingpole (the Delingpod) when it comes out soon on wherever you listen to podcasts. A tour de force, and pitchforks stuff.

196691 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to James Leary #KBF, 1, #620 of 2184 🔗

Where can I get a pitchfork I think it’s time

196740 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #621 of 2184 🔗

You can always sharpen the tines of an ordinary garden fork.

196748 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nick Rose, #622 of 2184 🔗

Sickles, bill hooks, axes, …

Garden tools are our friends.

196695 Jo, replying to Jo, 6, #623 of 2184 🔗

The students’ plight is awful – no wonder it is claiming victims to suicide and breakdown of mental health.
And yet, if there was any sense, this would be the easiest problem in this whole fiasco to fix.
We were told a while ago that students going back to university was contributing to the rise in case numbers.
We know that people of this age are not at risk.
We know that they live pretty much in discreet areas of the university cities and towns.
The solution:
Let all students mix freely in their halls of residence or houses, and at universities.
Tutors can socially distance from the students (much of tuition is online anyway)
Local/student bars should be kept for students only
Supermarkets can allow a time each day for students only shopping (as they did for a while with older/vulnerable people).
Stop testing students
That way pretty much all of susceptible students will spread it around, get over it and be able to return home at Xmas and visit their grandparents.
If necessary, students could have a test just before their return home so families could be reassured.
But hey – they would mean the students could have fun and learn and lead a normal life, instead of suffering and being imprisoned!

196711 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Jo, 3, #624 of 2184 🔗

I’ve heard many at my university halls have left after hearing about the real gulag treatment elsewhere.

196742 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to Jo, 9, #625 of 2184 🔗

Jo, you concede far too much. There should be no restrictions on students, and certainly not segregated shopping times. Our young people are not biological waste and must not be treated as such.

Those who are worried about Covid spreading through student parties and students snogging, should be encouraged to stop gatecrashing student parties and refrain from trying to snog students. That’s all.

196813 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Ovis, #626 of 2184 🔗

Sadly, universities as institutions are massive zealots.

196938 ▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to DRW, 2, #627 of 2184 🔗

Yes, or at least they are compliant. No doubt that they have received their orders from above.

I try to avoid indoctrinating my students into lockdown scepticism, and certainly I don’t want to attract complaints! At the same time, I am quietly open about my position. I am actually seething about the way students are being treated, and I want my students to know it is not in my name and that sceptical views are at least intellectually reputable.

196978 ▶▶▶ Jo, replying to Ovis, 1, #628 of 2184 🔗

I know what you are saying (and probably most of me agrees!) – but in the spirit of “compromise” – students at university mostly only want to associate with other students and they should be able to do so – the only restrictions would be for them to keep to themselves, in any size of their cohort group at all, just to get the virus circulating and then it would be job-done. I know it’s not ideal, but it would allow students to have a proper life and it would also take into account the fear of the coronaphobes. Surely better than what is happening now?

197137 ▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Jo, 2, #629 of 2184 🔗

Students in universities are by definition adults with capacity. It is simply not acceptable to segregate them. I don’t suggest that it is a slippery slope towards other forms of segregation, but I do say that it is every bit as indefensible as other forms of segregation.

Of course there are people in the wider community who have been encouraged to see students primarily as a biological hazard. There is absolutely no benefit to compromise with the peddlars of that rhetoric, and none to be gained from appeasing it or giving it credence.

196696 DRW, replying to DRW, #630 of 2184 🔗

Sadly LD II has been inevitable since LD I and Pantsdown ensuring the required outcomes: On/off LDs and constant suppression to save “hundred thousands” of lives “until there’s a vaccine”.

196702 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to DRW, #631 of 2184 🔗

until we realise we are almost at herd immunity. sweden clearly is there or thereabouts. I expect our second ripple to peter out

196801 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to steve_w, #632 of 2184 🔗

True but not part of the big agendas at work here.

197139 ▶▶▶ Mel, replying to steve_w, #633 of 2184 🔗

London is there already.

https://coronavirus-staging.data.gov.uk/details/deaths?areaType=region&areaName=London

Just need the lockdown f*ckwits to let the North achieve it too.

196703 Lili, 16, #634 of 2184 🔗

Excellent suggestion from a comment in the Daily Mail:

The best response I’ve heard was from a woman who when questioned said very matter of fact that she was exempt due to being NHB. She wasn’t questioned further but I have since found out this stands for Normal Human Being! Brilliant!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8856975/Face-facts-coronavirus-PPE.html#comments

196706 Basics, replying to Basics, 12, #635 of 2184 🔗

Owner of CrossFit in Sale announced his gym is REOPENING from this Saturday and is urging all Melbourne gyms to do the same ‘because Andrews is lying’.

Please RT the news far and wide.

https://twitter.com/OzraeliAvi/status/1318336570521350144?s=20

196712 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Basics, 8, #636 of 2184 🔗

Excellent. Maybe influenced by our Scouse gym heroes?

196713 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Mr Dee, 4, #637 of 2184 🔗

I think that is a good shout Mr Dee.

196708 kh1485, 9, #638 of 2184 🔗

I just heard a customer say, while laughing: “it’s all just a game really”. It’s taking everything I have not to put her bloody right on that stupid statement. When are people going to damn well wake up …..

196714 Sceptic in Oxford, replying to Sceptic in Oxford, 31, #639 of 2184 🔗

I believe that everyone should be against lockdown, even if they don’t realise yet why:

·      25 million GP appointments lost ( source: Care Quality Commission )
·      3 million people backlog for cancer screening (source: Cancer Research UK)
·      350,000 patients with suspected cancer haven’t been referred ( source: Cancer Research UK )
·      986,000 women not screened for breast cancer ( source: Breast Cancer Now )
·      Nearly 2 million waiting > 18 weeks for planned surgery, such as knee and hip operations (source: NHS England)
·      111,026 patients waiting > 1 year for treatment ( source: NHS England )
·      MD and cataracts have gone untreated leaving patients at risk of sight loss
·      Waiting lists in general for the NHS are at an all-time high

Sooner or later, everyone , will be impacted by these backlogs, whether its them, their husband, wife, mother, father, sister, brother, boyfriend, girlfriend, uncle, aunt, child or grandchild who needs treatment and joins the back of these queues.

Then there’s societal/other health problems:

·      1 in 10 mental health patients has been waiting 6 months for help ( source: Royal College of Psychiatrists )
·      Number of people drinking at ‘high risk levels’ doubled since February – now 8.5 million ( source: Royal College of Psychiatrists )
·      Just over 1 in 10 of over 70,000 surveyed had suicidal thoughts or thoughts of self-harm during the first week of lockdown ( source: Samaritans )
·      calls to domestic abuse helplines surge ( source: Refuge – For Women & Children Against Violence )
·      Off-licence alcohol sales are up 24.2% with beer sales up 66% ( source: Kantar)
·      48% of UK respondents increased alcohol consumption and 54% increased drinking frequency ( source: Institute of Alcohol Studies / Global Drug Survey Special Edition )
·      750,000 jobs lost March-August (source: ONS)
·      11,120 chain store outlets closed January-June ( source: Local Data Company and PwC )
·      45% of businesses have less than six months cash reserves or none ( source: ONS)
·      673,000 fewer workers were on payroll in August compared with March 2020 ( source: ONS )
·      Record fall in GDP (21.8%) during first half of 2020, greater than France, Italy, Canada, Germany, US and Japan ( source: ONS)
·      Public borrowing of £173.7 billion in the first five months of the pandemic – more than triple all borrowing for entire previous year [£56.6 billion] ( source: ONS )
·      UK national debt at record high >£2 trillion for first time ever (source: ONS)
·      33% of adults reported high levels of anxiety (source: ONS)
·      Charities face £12.4 drop (source: Chartered Institute of Fundraising (IoF) and the Charity Finance Group (CFG))
·      Graduates less likely to find work/internships: 49% of small and medium sized businesses have cancelled internships or work experience, whilst 29% of larger firms have (source: The Sutton Trust)

And that’s just for starters: I’ve said nothing here about the small businesses, bars, restaurants, gyms etc. that will never re-open.

I converted a neighbour to being anti-lockdown when I pointed out the backlog in health issues. She said she’d never heard about it mentioned before.

The MSM has a lot to answer for. Only TalkRadio challenges this madness.

196723 ▶▶ Jo, replying to Sceptic in Oxford, 1, #640 of 2184 🔗

Drinking – 8.5 million + 1!

197539 ▶▶▶ Al T, replying to Jo, #641 of 2184 🔗

+2

196732 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Sceptic in Oxford, 1, #642 of 2184 🔗

Would those numbers, for debate purposes, be indicators of a failed state?

196733 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Sceptic in Oxford, 8, #643 of 2184 🔗

That is a fantastically succinct summary of the devastation.
Thank you for assembling it – will share the core points today.

196758 ▶▶▶ Sceptic in Oxford, replying to CGL, 5, #644 of 2184 🔗

Great. Thanks. We have to convert people who currently don’t think this will hit them. But it will. It’s just a matter of time. We need to spread the word outside of our circle so post on FB, twitter, raise a few points in the pub, at the bus stop etc. anywhere, everywhere we meet people!

196754 ▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Sceptic in Oxford, 3, #645 of 2184 🔗

Noticed ITV news last night did admit that thousands of people more than average died at home the last few months, and interviewed the family of a young woman who tragically died because her cancer treatment was withdrawn for months.

196804 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Stringfellow Hawke, 11, #646 of 2184 🔗

My sister in law is a theatre nurse and had these words for me yesterday:

“Could have cried at work Today, 3 patients with breast cancer cancelled, one of them if she doesn’t have her surgery within next 3 weeks it will become incurable, young women. Totally devastating and could tell you heap of other stories like it. Beds being given up for influx of Covid patients. Weren’t even able to give them a set date in future. All the doctors and nurses devastated and angry”

196839 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Sceptic in Oxford, 5, #647 of 2184 🔗

To the vast majority caring about others means putting on a mask. Some might be so caring as to punch an unmasked pensioner in the face. They will not care about anything else until the BBC tells them too. It would seem therefore all we can do is wait until everybody has been badly effected. Even then I doubt they will do anything more then beg the government to save them.

196941 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Sceptic in Oxford, 4, #648 of 2184 🔗

Thank you for compiling this information.

197063 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Sceptic in Oxford, 3, #649 of 2184 🔗

Great stuff. I’ve taken the liberty of posting your list here . I’m currently in the process of adding citation links.

(Please advise if you object to me having posted it and I’ll take it down.)

If anyone wants to contribute some more facts and figures, I’ll add those to the list. Please provide citation links where possible.

197239 ▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to Mabel Cow, 2, #650 of 2184 🔗

The main ones missing are the millions of children facing starvation, and adults facing destitution, and the additional deaths of malaria and tb, etcetera, in the third world – oxfam, unicef, un probably have articles.

197140 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sceptic in Oxford, 1, #651 of 2184 🔗

Excellent stats here. Will copy & paste as a handy reference.

197382 ▶▶ Salopian, replying to Sceptic in Oxford, 1, #652 of 2184 🔗

These facts should be put to Cockwomble and every other politician who boasts
‘I’ll do whatever it takes ‘
What a stark snapshot of the butchers bill paid to date.

198238 ▶▶ chris c, replying to Sceptic in Oxford, 1, #653 of 2184 🔗

Excellent stuff!

Yes Arnie’s colleague’s suicide, the woman above who went mad with OCD, the people who have died of cancer on TV are tragic but just the tip of the iceberg. Coming soon to a town/family near you

196716 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 5, #654 of 2184 🔗

https://www.lockdowntruth.org/post/proof-reading-request

About to print some leaflets for our day of filming in London on Thursday.

I went for a simple fact that has no room for interpretation and cannot be argued with: “cases” vs deaths (HMG data – not disputed deaths etc)

Please point out any silly errors.

Thanks

196734 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Lockdown Truth, #655 of 2184 🔗

Not a silly error, but maybe “HMG data” is enough?

196743 ▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #656 of 2184 🔗

No silly errors I can see – You have about the traditional definition of a case, which is the key area that needs to be hammered, I think. On this subject, a quote I like, directly from Dr Malcolm Kendrick site, I’ve found is good at getting people to potentially re-consider what they are hearing from MSM regarding cases: “A symptomless, or even mildly symptomatic positive swab is not a case. Never, in recorded history, has this been true.”

196752 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #657 of 2184 🔗

Personally, I’d like to see some citation footnotes for:

* “has found mostly people with no symptoms”
* “Three-week time lag between infections and deaths.”

I’d also put a comma between expected and even .

Nice work!

196753 ▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to Lockdown Truth, #658 of 2184 🔗

“The increase in infections…” can be read as all of the increase. Can you support that? Surely some of the increase is real?

197135 ▶▶ hat man, replying to Lockdown Truth, #659 of 2184 🔗

You need to put some figures on the vertical axis, before one of your punters takes you to task.

Also, the second sentence sounds strange.

196718 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #660 of 2184 🔗

Propaganda 101, number 33. Get ’em when they’re young.

https://company.playmobil.com/en-GB/Playmobil-mask

196741 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #661 of 2184 🔗

Jesus tap-dancing Christ.

Lego cancels police figures and Playmobil does this.

196832 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Mabel Cow, 3, #662 of 2184 🔗

Cancels police figures!

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Clown World.

Won’t Lego City be overrun with ne’er-do-wells and miscreants? At least they’ve got Lego Batman to deal with the trouble.

Plastic Lives Matter.

196751 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Mr Dee, 5, #663 of 2184 🔗

The smile is under threat. The communication there is in body postures. Without knowing the intention of these characters there could be foul play at work. Only by inferring our own understanding onto those images can we take a message. Children may rely on a smile to set the tone for the rest of their understanding.

197153 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #664 of 2184 🔗

This is child abuse.

Boycott!

196729 Basics, replying to Basics, 11, #665 of 2184 🔗

Can i just say, as one who has done their utmost to share information and lessen confusion, the propect of people waking up if frightening. As it is now people are starting to share their own findings with me some are even thanking me and sharing stories*. When the tidal wave comes I’m frightened I will be swamped!

*one such story, funeral goers chanted out the hymns -not singing see- got them a telling off from the establishment and a badge of pride in their hearts.

196886 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Basics, 1, #666 of 2184 🔗

Do as I do and keep a mental list of anyone that has ever called you a crank, a eugenicist etc. Then spend the rest of your days ramming it back down their throats. There is absolutely nothing for us to fear from this backlash.

196738 Lancastrian Oik, replying to Lancastrian Oik, 5, #667 of 2184 🔗

My hope is that after this farrago is all over one of the consequences will mean the disappearance from public life of that oleaginous “creeping Jesus”, the prod-nosed Leftie social worker who has suckled on the public teat all his adult life, Drakeford.

Along with that spiteful racist little porridge goblin from north of the border, and their respective clown schools which masquerade as “Assembly” or “Parliament”.

“No, it’s no good waving your arms around and calling us ‘racists’ anymore.

“Yes, I’m afraid we have confiscated all your properties. You caused all this damage, you see, and it has to be paid for somehow. Actions have consequences, and these are the rules- tough.

“Now go away. Your time is over. Be thankful you aren’t in the dock at the Old Bailey with Johnson and Handcock. Off you go- times have changed and the grown-ups are back in charge”.

One can but dream.

196797 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Lancastrian Oik, 5, #668 of 2184 🔗

“oleaginous “creeping Jesus”, the prod-nosed Leftie social worker who has suckled on the public teat all his adult life”

“spiteful racist little porridge goblin from north of the border”

Excellent descriptive skills.

196866 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Mark, 1, #669 of 2184 🔗

Doesn’t sound Oik’ish to me

196739 Basics, replying to Basics, 7, #670 of 2184 🔗

Oh yes, news just in.

Coronavirus
Covid: firm secures £10m to infect young volunteers to hasten vaccine
London-based hVivo to conduct so-called ‘challenge trials’ to try to achieve faster results

The volunteers lining up to take part in challenge trials

A London-based company has secured a UK government contract worth up to £10m to intentionally infect healthy young volunteers with Covid-19 to hasten the development of a vaccine.

So-called “challenge trials” have the potential to yield results more quickly than conventional vaccine field trials in which researchers must wait for participants to get infected in the real world. They can also be used to develop treatments and compare multiple vaccine candidates.

Some scientists have reservations about exposing volunteers to a virus for which there is no cure. But proponents argue that the risks of coronavirus to young, fit and healthy people are low and the benefits to society during a pandemic high.

HVivo, a subsidiary of Dublin-based pharmaceutical services company Open Orphan, announced on Tuesday that it had signed the contract with the government to develop a Covid-19 human challenge study model.

The trial will start with a “characterisation study” in January at the Royal Free hospital in London, which will attempt to establish the minimum dose of the virus required to cause a Covid infection. This characterisation study, sponsored by Imperial College London, is pending regulatory and ethical review.

Worth reading in full as Toby and Will like to say:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/20/covid-firm-secures-10m-to-infect-young-volunteers-to-hasten-vaccine?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other reading in full as Toby and Will like to say.

Not enough virus in the wild to successfully test vaccinces. Why then imperial college do we need to be vaccinated as a species?

196774 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Basics, 3, #671 of 2184 🔗

Er, isn’t this kind of thing unethical?

I guess that institutional review boards are the next beneficiaries of the government’s profligate waste of our money.

196786 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Mabel Cow, 3, #672 of 2184 🔗

Mabel, mabel, mabel! You come waltzing into the Autumn of 2020 questioning ethics! Ethics are for the birds in this age of quackery.

Clap and praise those brave heros taking a live (isolated?) viral hit for humanity. Weep for their ironfast resolve to better ‘the science’.

196893 ▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Basics, 1, #673 of 2184 🔗

Of course to us , my question appears to be hopelessly naïve.

I’m just suggesting that we might be able to use the medical ethics argument as a way to get the sheep to object. I’m up for anything that will erode the general public’s acceptance of the government’s murderous policies.

This clinical trial reminds of the patriotic war cries of years gone by.

Hey kids! Join up! Do your bit! What could go wrong?

198246 ▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Basics, #674 of 2184 🔗

They better not go near their grannies

196961 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Mabel Cow, 1, #675 of 2184 🔗

The ethics of challenge trials have been under discussion for many years, so the implication that they are somehow banned and only being allowed because review boards have been bribed is false. The ethical issues include risk of harm and informed consent. The risk of death to healthy young adults is of the order of 1 in a million, on the basis of figures from earlier this year.

197001 ▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Richard Pinch, #676 of 2184 🔗

You make a good point.

197587 ▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Mabel Cow, 1, #677 of 2184 🔗

In addition, challenge studies are normally now permitted where there is a possible rescue medication. Influenza is an exampple, but you may be surprised to learn that vivax malaria challenge studies are now conducted. For SARS-COV2 there is unease because no risk factors for severe disease in the young have been identified and there is no rescue (yet). I’m uneasy about them in this instance, personally, due to the lack of information on morbidity in the young rather than just mortality.

196775 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 6, #678 of 2184 🔗

Does this study prove that the SARS CoV 2 virus HAS been isolated? It has remained a puzzling question.

196959 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Basics, 1, #679 of 2184 🔗

Excactly.
Like all the vaccine trials so far, how can you test if it works if the persons do not come into contact with a virus? With a virus which has never actually been proven to exist?

197596 ▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Basics, 2, #680 of 2184 🔗

Yes the pathogen SARS-COV2 has been isolated genotyped, imaged and placed in a phylogeny like other viruses. It can be grown in vitro in cultured VERO E6 cells. Drugs are tested against the virus in this cell culture to see if they block replication. The isolated virus is also tested by inoculation of animals who suffer similar (or worse) disease to humans. Hamsters have very similar pathology, rhesus monkeys have a more profound and rapid disease than humans. Hence it satisfies the Koch postulates for being a real infectious agent.

196745 Crazy Times, replying to Crazy Times, 5, #681 of 2184 🔗

It’s going to be interesting to see how Bozo and the Wanksock spin it when the trend lines on the graph between Liverpool, Sheffield & Manchester all follow the same trend and Manchester hasn’t locked down. How are they going to dig themselves out of that one? I’m guessing this is why they are panicking that Burnham still hasn’t agreed to anything. Even so, it feels like unless they really fiddle the figures for Manchester, it’s going to be difficult to explain. There’s a graph on the top of the DM at the moment that is already showing this.

196803 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Crazy Times, #682 of 2184 🔗

They’ll probably switch to hospital capacity or some other measure.

196843 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to DRW, #683 of 2184 🔗

Exactly! They will shape shift. This data analysis is an annoying distraction for them.

196749 crimsonpirate, 3, #684 of 2184 🔗

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-news-wales-lockdown-breaker-cases-deaths/
Heard Anders Tegnell on Today R4 this morning. Must admit I was thought wearing masks was merely a courtesy-nothing more.

196750 Julian, replying to Julian, 7, #685 of 2184 🔗

I would like to continue a debate started yesterday with djaustin regarding hospitalisation stats.

Here’s my reasoning:

Everyone admitted is now being tested, regardless of why admitted. So if you count a “covid hospitalisation” as anyone who tests positive before or after admission, regardless of symptoms, and you say “covid hospitalisations are rising” then I think that is a misrepresentation, because the numbers will rise in line with overall numbers admitted for whatever reason, in combination with the proportion of false positives and the general prevalence of the virus in the population. The same goes for ICU admissions and deaths. In order to be meaningful you need to look at people with symptoms and put it into context (what else are they ill with?).

I feel this is a strong argument – please pick holes in it!

196763 ▶▶ matt, replying to Julian, 3, #686 of 2184 🔗

I posted a link the other day to a twitter thread, that in turn I picked up from Yeadon’s recent twitter thread, which was making essentially exactly that point, with data. The correlation is striking.

Actually, I still have the tab open

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1317009458325786624.html

196768 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Julian, 2, #687 of 2184 🔗

…not to mention that the symptoms vary.

When I was ill, I was convinced that it wasn’t a result of SARS-CoV-2 because the government told me that I needed a temperature and a persistent dry cough in order to be a plague victim. My symptoms were muscle weakness, splitting headache, and a blocked-up nose.

However, at no point in my three-week illness did I see my temperature change from its baseline, and although I coughed a little, I didn’t personally class it as persistent cough.

It was only when I lost my sense of smell and taste (about a week after my other symptoms appeared) that I began to think I had the plague.

I have never been tested for SARS-CoV-2 RNA fragments or the resulting antibodies, so I still don’t know what my illness was.

196951 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Mabel Cow, #688 of 2184 🔗

we`ve had something similar here but like you, no temp change. when did you have it?

197078 ▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to watashi, #689 of 2184 🔗

First symptoms appeared on 10 March.

Within a month I was back to rowing 40 km per week with no drop in performance, but seven months on I still can’t smell or taste properly.

I’m nearly 50.

196769 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Julian, 2, #690 of 2184 🔗

The turnaround of hospitalistion must be fast 1-2 days. The reason being the numbers goin in daily are not swelling the numbers staying in. I have searched for discharge figures and only found NHS Scot data published in July reporting May figures. The August report not published nor sebsequent reports unless i am mistaken which is possible.

196785 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Julian, 1, #691 of 2184 🔗

My understanding is that they are very wary oif revealing discharged figures as it shows up the fact that admissions data is dodgy as it would seem that 1 person can count as 2 or 3 admissions if they are moved between departments but they only ever count as 1 discharge. If I have got that correct then the admissions figures will be way out from the discharge figures and so they keep that quiet to avoid awkward questions.

196814 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Julian, 4, #692 of 2184 🔗

And look at discharge.

It’s a strong argument.

That said, I feel the govt will do what it wants despite evidence. They are shape shifters with data.

As Francis Hoare said after the Dolan case words to the effect of “we do not live in a democracy”. Recently he has “it is all lies”.

The corruption in our system has probably always been there we are just seeing it in full technicolour.

If I’m honest, I’m f-ing petrified of what’s next!

196821 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 3, #693 of 2184 🔗

The problem has always been the same. We have no way of knowing with any security who is suffering with Covid-19, let alone dying from it as the primary cause.

The whole diagnostic issue is an incredible mess which has been complicated by the use of the PCR test – particularly using outsourced agents with no rigorous standardised criteria.

We know that the chain of events in a PCR test are such that there are a whole range of sources of error. We also know that Kerry Mullis, the inventor, stated quite clearly that it should not in the first place be used as a diagnositic tool.

Testing willy-nilly – including those who are asymptomatic – just increases the margins of error.

Layer this on top of the corruption of death registrations – and we have confusion upon confusion about any data relating to ‘Covid-19’.

So in statistical terms, whatever you try to discern, we are well and truly f.ed when it comes to cutting through the fog surrounding anything involving ‘Covid-19’.

All we can do is look at overall figures in any category to see if we can discern any significant pattern.

196858 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Julian, #694 of 2184 🔗

Anybody going into hospital for any reason is tested, day cases, referral to Consultant; one chap sent by the NHS to a private eye clinic had to be tested first. NHS has its own testing station away from the one for Joe public.

197632 ▶▶ djaustin, replying to Julian, 2, #695 of 2184 🔗

One of those symptoms of COVID19 is hypoxia. the data on ventilation shows exactly the same trend as that of admissions. Whatever is driving the increased rates of admissions for people testing positive for COVID19 appears to lead to corresponding increases in utilization of ITU beds and ventilation – and oxygen therapy too. Whilst it is true that patients are being tested routinely on admission, and regardless of whether one chooses to believe the veracity of the test, there has been an epidemic of hypoxia quite dissimilar to the pneumonia seen with influenza (also diagnosed with a PCR test, but I have not seen past objections to the NHS flu testing regimes).

196764 Silke David, replying to Silke David, 7, #696 of 2184 🔗

Re the deaths at home, somehow i’d rather they died at home.
Look at the ages, we have a very old population. Is it really better to die in hospital, maybe kept alive for a few days longer hooked to machines?
I’d rather be at home with hopefully family, peaceful, than medical staff trying to reanimate a heart which has been giving up for along time and would have stopped maybe years ago were it not for medication.

196772 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Silke David, 7, #697 of 2184 🔗

I think that you’re missing the point.

A lot of us would agree with you about end of life care.

But that’s not what this is all about. The significance of the figures lies in the questions about how many people with treatable conditions died because of the shutdown of the NHS.

196791 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to RickH, 4, #698 of 2184 🔗

I particularly paid attention to the large number of over 80.
I volunteered with a transport service for people who for different reasons cannot use public transport or drive. I have seen many people have no quality of life and wait for death.
I guess my original comment is very personal.

196807 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Silke David, 2, #699 of 2184 🔗

This appears to be a case of talking at cross purposes. You were making a legitimate (and correct, imo) point about wider goals and philosophy, whereas Rick is concerned to focus this issue on the implications for short term political debate (also a fair point, in the current context).

196842 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Silke David, 3, #700 of 2184 🔗

I understood that, David – but the point is that the shutdown has affected many others – as has been in the news this week. Not just the frail and elderly.

There is accumulating evidence of people not seeking or receiving treatment, even tho’ they may have actually benefitted from it in a real sense.

196845 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to RickH, 3, #701 of 2184 🔗

The BBC gave out yesterday 20% increase in people dying at home with heart attacks. I can’t imagine anyone in that condition not wanting to be in hospital so why weren’t they ?

196870 ▶▶▶▶ Steve, replying to karenovirus, 4, #702 of 2184 🔗

Because they have been literally scared to death. They’re so afraid of the ‘virus’ that they’re not calling the ambulance until too late if at all. I recall several paramedics commenting on this problem in April or May.

196879 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Steve, 3, #703 of 2184 🔗

and as mentioned elsewhere re cancer and the adverts nhs have been running over the last couple of weeks.

Some people are so diligent in following the “save the NHS” mantra, they are not routinely getting things checked in the way they would have done before this farce.

“Oh its just a bit of indigestion” ..”its just a twinge in my arm”

And also the difficulty in getting a doctors appointment in past months.

Hence the NHS and now CRUK having to advertise that “the NHS is open” and “doctors will see you”.

Because in truth people have been dying because they think they are saving the NHS

197178 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to mjr, 2, #704 of 2184 🔗

As someone said here the other day, Stay Home. Save the NHS. Die.

198261 ▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Steve, 1, #705 of 2184 🔗

I;m not afraid of the virus, I’m afraid if the fucking NHS. I’d rather die peacefully in my own bed than have heroic measures used to resuscitate me so they can tell me they are putting me on the Liverpool Care Pathway and euthenasing me by starvation. I know this has been done.

196969 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to karenovirus, 2, #706 of 2184 🔗

Because the heart attack was preceded by symptoms ignored as they are afraid to go for treatment.
A customers friend died of a heart attack as he had ignored constant symptoms for days.

196776 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Silke David, 9, #707 of 2184 🔗

I’d rather they didn’t die at all if they received the treatment that was denied to them by the NHS shutting down to everything non Covid

196783 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #708 of 2184 🔗

No-one lives forever.

196789 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Silke David, 2, #709 of 2184 🔗

So? Given that’s a statement of the bleedin’ obvious, what exactly are you saying?

I think you’re missing the point.

196792 ▶▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to RickH, #710 of 2184 🔗

See below.

196824 ▶▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Silke David, 2, #711 of 2184 🔗

True but others hastening your death is…. called? Clue begins with m and ends with r.

197181 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to KBuchanan, 2, #712 of 2184 🔗

MinisteR?

196827 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Silke David, -1, #713 of 2184 🔗

What a heartless prick.

196766 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 16, #714 of 2184 🔗

Watch This 💔 8 Months Of Madness 🤦‍♂️ What On 🌍 Are We Doing? 🎥
Alex Belfield – THE VOICE OF REASON
7 months alone. Is this a price worth paying?…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXakzX8Lo08

****************************
f the Test works — Why the False positives?
If the Masks work – Why the Six Feet?
If the Six Feet work – Why the Masks?
If all Three work – Why the Lockdown?
If all Four work – Why the vaccine?
If the Vaccine is Safe – Why the No Liability Clause?
If SARS-CoV-2 exists – Why has it not been isolated?

196838 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #715 of 2184 🔗

Alex is go to channel daily, short and to thr point.

196930 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to karenovirus, 2, #716 of 2184 🔗

“Short and to the point” is not the same as being right.

To address these points, although it’s an exercise in Brandolini’s law.

The test “working” is not a well-defined concept. If your definition of working is zero false positive, then you would say that it did not work. Almost any test for anything ever has some rate of error, coming from the test itself and the way it’s administered. The question is, does it do what you want it to do? It so happens that I think it doesn’t as far as mass testing is concerned, but that’s another matter.

Masks/six feet/lockdown. No-one, I hope, pretends that these measures collectively or individually absolutely prevent all spread of virus ever. The question is, do they reduce transmission sufficiently to make a difference to the spread within the population, and, in particular, bring it down to less than R=1?

Vaccination or some other form of herd immunity prevent the spread of the virus by depriving it of susceptible targets to infect. (This is common ground between vaccination and Great Barrington advocates). Once herd immunity is in place, social restrictions are not needed to prevent the spread.

No vaccine is perfectly safe, and proponents of vaccination are foolish if they try to argue that. There are risks and there will be damage (hopefully very little). The state, as insurer of last resort, assumes the legal liability in place of the manufacturers in return for getting the vaccine at a regulated price.

And finally: the virus has been isolated, genetically sequenced and even micrographed.

197207 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Richard Pinch, #717 of 2184 🔗

I’m not sure how your detailed reply relates either to my response or to the video link on Sir Patrick Vaccines post.

197346 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to karenovirus, #718 of 2184 🔗

My post was addressing the seven questions beginning “If” in the first post. I understood you to be referring to these in your comment “short and to the point”.

I haven’t seen the video referred to, and not proposing to waste my time on it if it is intended to convey the message that the virus does not exist.

198369 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Richard Pinch, #719 of 2184 🔗

My response was directed to the linked video which is, short and to the point, about the reunion between two 80 year olds who have been separated by lockdown for 7 months.

196841 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #721 of 2184 🔗

He is right. I have a friend who reports into CEO of our local hospital. Same story.

The govts are doing what they want.

I think economic collapse is near.

196787 Janice21, replying to Janice21, 42, #722 of 2184 🔗

I am sick to the back teeth now of this sh*t. Driving kids to creche this morning and so much eerieness about again with yet another lockdown.
Sick of being asked for a face covering and telling people I am exempt. Sick of getting dirty looks from face nappy wearers. Sick of people who fall for it all. Sick of seeing a sea of graphs and figures.
Where can I ask for a refund for all the money I have contributed to the NHS all my working life? Not able to get my sons hearing checked unless its urgent.
My kids wont know who some of their extended family are at this rate because they are afraid to allow us in to their house or come to ours.

196945 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Janice21, 4, #723 of 2184 🔗

All of this! my daughter didn`t get to see her grandparents on her birthday yesterday as they were too afraid to come to our house..sick of it all!

197108 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Janice21, 2, #724 of 2184 🔗

Great post

196793 BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 4, #725 of 2184 🔗

Paris To Vietnam Charles de Gaulle

196806 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 6, #726 of 2184 🔗

Are the Smurfs going on holiday?

196834 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 3, #727 of 2184 🔗

I saw something similar but assumed it was a spoof.

196844 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to karenovirus, 1, #728 of 2184 🔗

Could be. Source unverified

196796 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #729 of 2184 🔗

Remind me what the latest “In 2 weeks” claim is? I think it’s 600-odd deaths by early November. What will it be next, if that doesn’t happen? Or will they just wheel out a model to show that 600 people have actually died, just like 50,000 people are actually being infected per day now even though the precious numbers show otherwise…

How many claims like this have there been? Has anyone kept track? I think it all started in July when we were 3 weeks behind the second wave in Spain. I’d love to have a list of all these claims that haven’t yet materialised…

196826 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #730 of 2184 🔗

BBC R2 News 11am today.
‘Deaths are doubling every 2 weeks, but are still far lower than at the height of the pandemic’

That proviso can be read two ways.

196851 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to karenovirus, 5, #731 of 2184 🔗

Shit! At that rate, everyone in the world will be dead in 48 weeks.

It really is the end of the world. 😀

196862 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Mabel Cow, 5, #732 of 2184 🔗

Do you know – I almost hope it is.

196836 ▶▶ DRW, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #733 of 2184 🔗

Swamped hospitals in the NW and WYorks in late July. Doris even said prepare to reactivate the Nightingales in two weeks!

196802 Hampshire Sceptic, replying to Hampshire Sceptic, 3, #734 of 2184 🔗

The article by David Mackie explaining false positives is excellent. Someone ought to make sure Matt Wancock reads it!
We are told that a large number of the people testing positive are asymptomatic. Surely most of them are false positives rather than asymptomatic. Is there any data as to how many of the supposed asymptomatic people subsequently develop symptoms? Or would publishing such information not fit in with the Project Fear strategy?

196815 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Hampshire Sceptic, 5, #735 of 2184 🔗

They already know, it’s the reason given for not testing people who return from abroad. The level of piss taking is unbelievable.

196875 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to karenovirus, 1, #736 of 2184 🔗

I thought the reason given was that most travellers would be too early in the incubation period to test positive and therefore too many ‘cases’ would be missed?

196987 ▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Charlie Blue, 2, #737 of 2184 🔗

During an interview with Sky News on 6 September, Dominic Raab said:

“The reason that we can’t introduce testing reliably at airports is because the success rate is lower than one in ten. So, as your earlier guest mentioned, actually it’s not a silver bullet. You would have to have further tests.”

197218 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mabel Cow, #738 of 2184 🔗

Thank you for that, my response was from memory only but it would have been on Radio 4, probably also Mr Raab.

196805 Recusant, replying to Recusant, 25, #739 of 2184 🔗

Good Lord, Ireland has gone completely insane. The Taoiseach freely admits that 150,000 people will be out of work within days

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/150000-to-be-out-of-work-within-days-as-a-result-of-level-5-lockdown-taoiseach-micheal-martin-says-39645434.html

Remember, Ireland are issuing bonds to pay for this in a currency for which they don’t set the interest rates, they are playing with very hot fire. They just cannot break out of the conventional mindset that death is avoidable, and that it is ok to bankrupt people in order to avoid it. It is total madness.

196809 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Recusant, 2, #740 of 2184 🔗

Going to be entirely in hoc to the EU ?

196825 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to karenovirus, 5, #741 of 2184 🔗

To Germany, in other words. Another huge bill we at least won’t be liable for. Mind you, we’ll have enough to do subsidising our own regional covid drama queens.

196810 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to Recusant, 2, #742 of 2184 🔗

Utter lunacy!

196811 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Recusant, 2, #743 of 2184 🔗

We wont be able to blame the banks this time around.

196817 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Recusant, 3, #744 of 2184 🔗

Bearing in mind the heavy dependence of the always shaky Mediterranean Eurozone on tourism – one of the major casualties of the coronapanic, one has to wonder what the state of the Euro will be, coming out of this nonsense.

A choice between massive German bailouts or general economic collapse in the south seems likely.

196822 ▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to Mark, 2, #745 of 2184 🔗

A choice between massive German bailouts or general economic collapse in the south seems likely

For the EU, that’s not a very difficult choice.

196833 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Recusant, 1, #746 of 2184 🔗

Always been tricky in the past. I suppose it depends whether the Germans collectively decide, like our “Conservative” Party, to roll over and join the magic money forest cult.

196873 ▶▶▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to Mark, 1, #747 of 2184 🔗

Has it been tricky in the past? When has Germany ever bailed anyone else out? Ireland was absolutely crucified in the banking crisis to prevent German bondholders of Anglo-Irish bank taking a haircut. And as for Greece, well…

196828 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Recusant, 4, #748 of 2184 🔗

Don’t you get it. If just one life is saved!!!

196830 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Recusant, 1, #749 of 2184 🔗

Ireland is also in the top 5 of US Treasury holdings. They own approximately 1 year’s GNP – over $340B. There’s bugger all yield but there is a massive downside if the dollar inflates. How can a country that small be in the same league as China and Japan?

196876 ▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to mhcp, 1, #750 of 2184 🔗

Presumably it is to help US corporations who want to convert their accounting profits from Euros back to dollars, in the same way that China holds so many Treasuries because it has receives so many dollars as payment for exports.

196837 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Recusant, 10, #751 of 2184 🔗

They are doing it on purpose. There can be no other explanation. Economic collapse is round the corner. I’m positive now.

196856 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Country Mumkin, 10, #752 of 2184 🔗

It’s obvious now.It is a controlled demolition of the economy.Lockdowns social distancing,level 2/3 restrictions are just a tool to disorientate us and stop people meeting and organising
A magician keeps you looking at what he wants you to see while he completes the illusion.

196878 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #753 of 2184 🔗

It is certainly looking that way.

197099 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Country Mumkin, 2, #754 of 2184 🔗

Distressed people (and distressed businesses) will have to sell their possessions. Wonder who will gladly pick up all the bargains?

197180 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Recusant, #755 of 2184 🔗

Bonkers. What are the odds that they will go to the EU cap in hand for a bailout?

196818 porgycorgy, replying to porgycorgy, 2, #756 of 2184 🔗

That was a complicated way of explaining the false positive conundrum. My way was simple:
100 people 10 +ve 2 false +ve = 8 Covid
100 people 2 +ve. 2 false +ve. = 0 Covid
As Covid disappears, the proportion of false positives increases to 100%
Mass testing for rare Covid cases produces wildly inaccurate results
Covid can NEVER disappear.

Also
Matt Hancock’s maths go like this:
100 people 2 +ve minus 2% of 2
2 – 0.04 = 1.96 Covid
Wrong, Bad Boy Hancock!

196868 ▶▶ RichT, replying to porgycorgy, 1, #757 of 2184 🔗

That is simpler?, yet my brain still hurts.

197085 ▶▶ Edward, replying to porgycorgy, 1, #758 of 2184 🔗

That’s similar to my explanation which is as follows, using round numbers for simplicity. Suppose the false positive rate is 1%, i.e. the proportion of tests which show positive from uninfected people.. Suppose also that the false negative rate is 1%, i.e. the proportion of tests which show negative from infected people. Suppose you test 1000 people. Two scenarios:
1. High prevalence, 100 of them actually are infected. The test will correctly diagnose 99 of them but miss one. Of the 900 who actually are uninfected, the test will wrongly diagnose 9 of them as positive.
2. Low prevalence, only 10 out of the 1000 actually are infected. There’s a high probability that the test will correctly diagnose all of these infected ones. Of the 990 who actually are uninfected, the test will wrongly diagnose around 10 of them as positive.

So at high prevalence most (99 out of 108) of the indicated positives are correct, but at low prevalence half (10 out of 20) of the indicated positives are wrong.
With different numbers the details will be different but the general principles are the same.

196831 nickbowes, replying to nickbowes, 15, #759 of 2184 🔗

Would be nice to see one, JUST ONE, of these loathsome scumbags that constitute our Government resign. Do any of the nutters in the Cabinet have any sense of shame.

196865 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to nickbowes, 5, #760 of 2184 🔗

Or any of the MP’s who’s constituents are being destroyed economically and mentally.

196877 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to JHuntz, 3, #761 of 2184 🔗

That’s virtually all of them.

196872 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to nickbowes, 2, #762 of 2184 🔗

I’m having a party when Hancock goes.

196974 ▶▶ steph, replying to nickbowes, 2, #763 of 2184 🔗

Despite having resigned our membership and asked that they do not contact us anymore, we had an email from the local association yesterday – GDPR anyone? It included a letter from our MP saying that she had tried to raise that our locality had a very low instance but the Secretary of State has decided that’s it was safer to go with the Tier 2 as requested by the County Council and of course “we don’t do this lightly”.
I am so angry and torn between tearing her off a strip for ignoring the many times we have told her to bugger off and not contact us as members which we are no longer and saying if you had any integrity you would put your constituents first and resign your government position.

196847 BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 3, #764 of 2184 🔗

I have said a few times that there will always be a mental backwater to which people can retreat. As an example, for the first time ever flu has been eradicated globally. 97% year to date.

And yet…

196888 ▶▶ calchas, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 3, #765 of 2184 🔗

Flu down

Covid up.

(Flu +Covid) = constant?

Is Flu being reclassified as Covid?

If masks etc are working then:

Surely (Flu +Covid) should be way down.

If masks etc are working then:

surely all respiratory diseasess should be way down.

To avoid the reclassification problem all repiratory diseases must be considered together.

What is happening to flu in countries where no measures (Belarus) are being taken?

196904 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to calchas, 1, #766 of 2184 🔗

Sweden. No flu since week 15

196914 ▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #767 of 2184 🔗

So,if flu has disappeared in Sweden and Belarus,

then it cannot be down to mandatory measures.

However, the fall in flu in both countries can be due to reclassification of the disease as covid-19.

Which means that in other countries where flu has fallen, that that may due to reclassification of the disease – and not to mandatory measures.

197601 ▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to calchas, #768 of 2184 🔗

There are two competing theories.

Reclassification or maybe covid-19 has pushed out the flu. The same dry tinder is used up as both spread through.

It’s certainly not masks and social distancing. In Japan, the numbers dropped before their first intervention and, even though its a country versed in masks, it had flu epidemics in recent years anway. They had a softish lockdown too.

You’ll also notice they have still been keeping up testing for flu. So it’s not that they have only been looking for Covid

196905 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to calchas, #769 of 2184 🔗

Belarus

Flu was rising to week 10. Then nothing

196975 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to calchas, #770 of 2184 🔗

Is Flu being reclassified as Covid?”

I think that’s a major issue – and part of the wider one of the classification of all respiratory illness.

196952 ▶▶ stewart, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #771 of 2184 🔗

If you ask what is COVID and question whether it’s actually a thing, you get tarred as a conspiracy nutjob.

Data and facts don’t seem to help much.

196850 sjp97, #772 of 2184 🔗

Balanced proposal on why we must transition to a focused protection model for long-term progress (from the Institute of Development Studies).Their stance relates to the massive damage being done to developing nations by the lockdown approach but the article mentions the Northern hemisphere and draws comparisons. Is ‘mainstream’ opinion shifting towards a GBD position? —- https://www.ids.ac.uk/opinions/shielding-the-vulnerable-a-strategy-for-long-term-pandemic-response/

196854 RickH, replying to RickH, 6, #773 of 2184 🔗

As I avoid mainstream news channels like the plague, I have no idea of the answer.

But have Whitty and Vallance (or government sources in general) been challenged by ‘journalists’ about the absurd inaccuracy of their ‘exponential’ projection?

And what has the answer been?

196859 ▶▶ Basics, replying to RickH, 5, #774 of 2184 🔗

No

196891 ▶▶ FlynnQuill, replying to RickH, 1, #775 of 2184 🔗

Why would they, they are complicit in the whole covid bullshit narrative. Another bunch that should be in the dock if there is ever any justice for what they have done.

196913 ▶▶ matt, replying to RickH, 3, #776 of 2184 🔗

The job of a journalist is to regurgitate, not to challenge.

196964 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to matt, #777 of 2184 🔗

It shouldn’t be but it is! MW

196855 Dan Clarke, 4, #778 of 2184 🔗

Totally ignoring WHO, who downgraded covid in March and say lockdown’s dont work, we were following the ‘guidelines’ for a while there.

196861 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 7, #779 of 2184 🔗

China come out of this on top, in the NWO. Next is to find out why western governments are letting it happen, is it ‘the plan’ to rid us of democracies, which politicians hate.

196918 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Dan Clarke, #780 of 2184 🔗

The Chinese played it smarter than we did.

196946 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #781 of 2184 🔗

Governments are made up of ordinary people, with limited capabilities.

Western governments are being massively outplayed, screwing up in every way, and we are all suffering the consequences.

Dig a bit deeper and in reality governments do what the people ask from them. Western populations are flaccid and entitled and not up to the challenge of facing up to Asian powers.

While our privileged classes fret about social justice, wokeness etc, Asians are working their socks off, getting engineering degrees, killing it in maths and generally kicking ass.

197103 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #782 of 2184 🔗

Yes, isn’t it great? China’s economy is growing, ours is tanking fast – guess who will be the winner?

196874 Rowan, 16, #783 of 2184 🔗

Wales gone fully suicidal.

196881 Cecil B, 11, #784 of 2184 🔗

In the first lockdown the rabid nationalist Police and Crime Commissioner for Dyfed Powys Police went bonkers

In a thinly veiled exercise in racism he had his officers book every single English tourist they could get their hands on

The smallest force in England and Wales (with the largest territorial area) issued more tickets than any force in England and Wales

Oh how they bigged themselves up in the press, the basic narrative was we don’t want any dirty infected English here

It went down well with the local population

The rapists dad is Labour. Labour hate the Nationalists and vice versa

Today even when it is taken into account that the figures are bent there is no covid in the Dyfed Powys area

However the rapist’s dad has decided to imprison the people of Dyfed Powys from Friday anyway. The people who cheered in March and April are about to be thrown out of work without any pay

Serves them right I say

(and I comment as a Welshman)

196882 Richard O, replying to Richard O, 13, #785 of 2184 🔗

Note that the full lockdowns Wales and Ireland have already crept up to 6 weeks.

Once this is in place across the British Isles, my prediction is that, absent a popular rebellion, these lockdowns will effectively be permanent.

196933 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Richard O, 1, #786 of 2184 🔗

How very depressing

196887 captainbeefheart, replying to captainbeefheart, 14, #787 of 2184 🔗

Maybe the editors at the Guardian have finally started shitting themselves…

“No one wants a lockdown – so why are we hearing about ‘lockdown cheerleaders’?”

ANSWER: Probably because you’ve been brainwashing people to accept all sorts of ludicrous diktats for the last 7 months, you traitorous cretins!!!

“No one wants to be hung for treason – so why are so many journalists lying to the public?”

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/20/britain-pro-lockdown-lobby-blame-government-covid-19#

196943 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to captainbeefheart, 2, #788 of 2184 🔗

I know you shouldn’t, but I started reading the comments. How’s this one for a gem?

Happy to cheer on a lockdown. The levels of virus won’t drop without it. Best get covid under control and then emerge slowly.

Longer the better in my view.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/20/britain-pro-lockdown-lobby-blame-government-covid-19#comment-144649465

196950 ▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to mattghg, 2, #789 of 2184 🔗

This will probably be made a “Guardian Pick”

196956 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to mattghg, 4, #790 of 2184 🔗

Emerge slowly with your hands up to deliver yourself into the fond care of the Chinese PLA.

You have a stronger stomach than me, reading that stuff. Or you still have a sense of humour. Good for you. Mine has evaporated

196960 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to mattghg, 5, #791 of 2184 🔗

It could easily be 77th Brigade. It’s what they get paid for. MW

197025 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #792 of 2184 🔗

That was my immediate thought too.

196981 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to mattghg, 4, #793 of 2184 🔗

No doubt there is a room at the 77th chock full of low-paid public servants busily creating sock puppets to post this kind of drivel.

Presumably this is the cyber job that the government are offering Fatima the ballerina.

(Sorry MW, I just scrolled down and saw you beat me to it. :-))

197084 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Mabel Cow, 1, #794 of 2184 🔗

Don’t apologise! I hadn’t thought of poor Fatima! MW

197080 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to captainbeefheart, 4, #795 of 2184 🔗

“No one wants a lockdown”

The usual standards of Guardian self-awareness then.

196890 Ricky R, replying to Ricky R, 15, #796 of 2184 🔗

I was very much in the “this is all government incompetence” camp until September. I assumed they were looking for an exit strategy whilst politically posturing to make sure they didn’t admit lockdown was a mistake and all for nothing after Sweden was vindicated.

I find it hard to believe this is the case now as we go through the exact same hysteria we went through in March. There is a purpose behind it and I think they’re winning.

196901 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Ricky R, 9, #797 of 2184 🔗

The purpose behind it is for the politicians and their mates to keep their filthy snouts in the trough for as long as possible.

I don’t believe it needs to be any more complicated than avarice, cowardice, and vanity.

196923 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Mabel Cow, 5, #798 of 2184 🔗

And Johnson being so bloody useless. If he stood up and said NO we are not doing this, we are inviting Tegnell to advise us and we will adopt a new policy of shielding and minimal regulation, and we are sending the wretched scientist bean counters back under their stones where they belong, the shysters and opportunists in his cabinet would either have to line up behind him or resign. Instead, he fiffs and faffs and blusters and backtracks and nobody knows where they are, including the shysters and opportunists. Cue the present bonfire of the sanities.

197024 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, #799 of 2184 🔗
196925 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Ricky R, 5, #800 of 2184 🔗

I basically agree with you. It would have been relatively easy to wind the whole thing down in August and saved face if they’d wanted. Instead we had a casedemic driven by mass testing of students and schoolkids, and then the bizarre “build back better” non-sequiturs in Boris’ conference speech…

196926 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Ricky R, 1, #801 of 2184 🔗

No purpose.

Just a one track mind: Cases leads to deaths. Cases going up means deaths will go up, so have to put measures in place.

All the evidence that the approach is pointless has been set out and has failed to derail the government from this simplistic approach. They’re not changing their minds. it will carry on until a vaccine comes out and we are all forced/coerced into taking it.

That’s the whole story.

196948 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to stewart, 2, #802 of 2184 🔗

Or, which is much more likely, until a vaccine does not come out – because coronaviruses are very difficult/impossible to vaccinate against – and they slowly move the goalposts to make it seem like they thought “learning to live with the virus” was the right idea all along.
Unhappily, by then, British society, culture, sport and enterprise will all have been extinguished

197074 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Ricky R, 2, #803 of 2184 🔗

It is all about the money … for them and their crony’s

196892 porgycorgy, #804 of 2184 🔗

“Awaiting for approval” it says by my post. How odd. Please correct the English, at least.

That was a complicated way of explaining the false positive conundrum. My way was simple:
100 people 10 +ve 2 false +ve = 8 Covid
100 people 2 +ve. 2 false +ve. = 0 Covid
As Covid disappears, the proportion of false positives increases to 100%
Mass testing for rare Covid cases produces wildly inaccurate results
Covid can NEVER disappear.
Also
Matt Hancock’s maths go like this:
100 people 2 +ve minus 2% of 2
2 – 0.04 = 1.96 Covid
Wrong, Bad Boy Hancock!

196894 Basics, replying to Basics, 29, #805 of 2184 🔗

A push back thread on twitter. 600 replies and good reason being added.

It begins with this:

If I close my “non-essential” business on Wednesday, my income is reduced to zero

If I close my business on Wednesday, everyone in the public sector will be on full wages & benefits

We are not “all in this together”

And my business is essential to me, so it will remain open

https://twitter.com/MikBurrows/status/1318266523136524289?s=20

Worth visiting to see a frontline.

196911 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Basics, 8, #806 of 2184 🔗

Good for you. And “all in this together” is a sick joke

196993 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 3, #807 of 2184 🔗

THEY’RE all in it together all right.

196919 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Basics, 9, #808 of 2184 🔗

Very good.

One reply is stunning, from someone who has suddenly realised why locking down people’s business is a problem.

Great that the lightbulb has finally switched on, but goddam are people stupid…

196896 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 8, #809 of 2184 🔗

Brief but friendly visit to GP for liquid nitrogen zapping of minor skin lesion: badge displayed;everyone friendly;no one challenged me.

GP masked and wearing plastic apron but welcoming;no comment about my bare face. He offered to do a flu jab while I was there, but gave me the option to refuse,which I did.

He understood and knew of many reasons why some people don’t have the vaccine.

I was the only person there without a mask,apart from the 2 receptionists concealed behind their perspex barrier.

It seems that despite the never ending restrictions, scare mongering and widespread compliance, many doctors and nurses are now fully prepared to accept those of us who do not obey.

Autonomy and informed consent are still respected ,albeit rather quietly.

196906 ▶▶ Dame Lynet, replying to wendyk, 2, #810 of 2184 🔗

I imagine the vast majority of them would balk at daily confrontations with recalcitrant, well-informed customers calling them out on the nonsense. Much better all round to have an adult relationship such as the one you describe.

196898 Basics, 3, #811 of 2184 🔗

https://mobile.twitter.com/annaberu/status/1318256475786088449/photo/1

Rare image of rope holding Gov Covid measures together.

196900 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 10, #812 of 2184 🔗

An interesting day in the High Peak:

It started with our neighbour who we know is pretty sceptical but not a big political thinker, greeting AlanG with ‘I see Project Fear is still going well!’ It’s worth mentioning that his ICU nurse daughter recovered from a bad bout of CV19 in April so if he can do it. . . .

Mobile Library day: Apart from the satisfaction of turfing out the tiresome (but interestingly unmasked!) village Karen-in-Chief so I could stagger up the steps with about 30 books garnered from neighbours who now can’t use it because the kids like to choose the books, it was even grimmer than last time. The librarian was wearing a mask and the empty van with about 3 pitiful piles of sanitised books could make you weep. It cannot last long like this and I’m only using the service for the sake of the staff and we did manage a nice chat about books.*

Then a nice country walk to a veg shop. I have posted about the owner before; he is the ultimate ‘I’m all right Jack’ type i.e. he has had a brilliant lockdown, making a mint with deliveries. He is the most conflicted person we know. Yesterday, he greeted us, through his muzzle, with the news that ‘X has got IT and is really poorly’. When we responded with ‘Oh dear, we’d better run off and hide then’, instead of being shocked he started to come out with sceptical views. We wonder how much longer he can go on like this, he’s like a bloody weather vane! There was another unmasked shopper in there – a young woman.

Anyway, apart from a couple of obviously mentally ill swervers – a woman in a mask who walked towards us looked like she was on the verge of hysteria and the unmasked man with her looked desperately embarrassed – most people seemed reasonably relaxed and, at least, there was little evidence of al fresco muzzle-wearing.

Then, we saw two women across the street and they started walking our way. One was a woman we know who is semi-retired from a shop in another small town. AlanG started talking to her daughter and I chatted with Mum. After a few cautious opening remarks, she said, ‘You don’t think it’s some kind of reset, do you?’. Well, that was it, we walked on exchanging views and chatted for about half-an-hour. They say they rarely meet anyone who shares their views but we all agreed that opposition is growing, albeit slowly.

We need to keep on talking. Someone above posted that ‘people’ are demanding lockdowns. I honestly don’t think that this is what’s driving this at all and it never has been. It is the old idea of manufactured consent and this is what we have to fight. The only way is to support all opposition and to encourage others not to comply. We can’t relax, we really our fighting for our lives here.

*Instead of practising my viola, I’m skiving by working up a Janey Godley-type routine whereby Nicola the Nazi explains why ‘Ye cannae have a mobile library wi books ennit, deliverin’ the Corvid roond and roond the High Peak’ . Obviously we’re not in Scotland but this amuses AlanG (I think) and my Glasgow accent is improving – thanks Janey! MW

196907 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #813 of 2184 🔗

I like your use of swervers . I think I’ll start using it as an alternative to the now-proscribed b-dw-tt-rs.

196940 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Mabel Cow, #814 of 2184 🔗

Yes – my better half heard this term for the first time on Saturday – how we laughed!

196910 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #815 of 2184 🔗

I have a booked slot at 1.30 today ,to collect a DVD from our library. We aren’t allowed to turn up impromptu as this might lead to dangerous gatherings of sneaky plague spreaders.

I pity the library staff who have to enforce this nonsense and did get into a spot of bother on Saturday when I appeared without warning!

On the bright side, the extensive DVD collection has now been made available and has many excellent foreign films, which I’m taking advantage of.

Returned books and DVDs are quarantined for 48 hours ‘to stop the spread’.

Calamitous Covid relents after 48 hours and flies away,who knows where?

196920 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to wendyk, 1, #816 of 2184 🔗

Madness, finally given it up and get kindle books.

196936 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #817 of 2184 🔗

My poor sight doesn’t get on well with kindle and I do love real books. I’ve been buying second hand copies from Abe and Amazon.

196927 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to wendyk, 3, #818 of 2184 🔗

after weeks of the nonsensical click and collect in our local library we are now allowed to actually step inside to browse! imagine! no doubt there will be a whole raft of ridiculous rules though.

196931 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to watashi, 2, #819 of 2184 🔗

We’re still too dangerous! sturgeon is on a control-roll now,so I see little chance of us being allowed in any time soon!

196934 ▶▶ Karennhackedoff, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #820 of 2184 🔗

Give the bloody Karen jibe a rest fgs.

197092 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Karennhackedoff, 1, #821 of 2184 🔗

Humble apologies to you and all Karens-who-are-not-Karens – I was trying to avoid B-W 😉 MW

197008 ▶▶ RickH, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 4, #822 of 2184 🔗

opposition is growing, albeit slowly.”

I think that assessment is about right

197010 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #823 of 2184 🔗

We need to keep on talking. Someone above posted that ‘people’ are demanding lockdowns. I honestly don’t think that this is what’s driving this at all and it never has been. It is the old idea of manufactured consent and this is what we have to fight. The only way is to support all opposition and to encourage others not to comply. We can’t relax, we really our fighting for our lives here.
Agree! Thanks for the report and encouragement.

196908 Tom Blackburn, 4, #824 of 2184 🔗

Jeremy Vine has retweeted ‘What SAGE has got wrong’ article from here 🙂

https://twitter.com/theJeremyVine/status/1318500963636940803?s=20

196912 John, 2, #825 of 2184 🔗

We all need to get rid of these Governments who have simply abandoned their obligation to the citizens by implementing draconian policies and ignoring the trade-offs. All these decisions have been found to be complete lies based on Pseudo-science. There are so many papers proving that they are lying to the citizens.
Be sure to get rid of them as soon as you can.

196916 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #826 of 2184 🔗

All of this going on and they look totally unconcerned, in Parliament.

196921 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #827 of 2184 🔗

We think most of the ordinary MPs are as brainwashed as the rest of the population. They may also realise that they are powerless to do anything. MW

196932 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #828 of 2184 🔗

Mine has gone dark, saw him in Parliament lounging on his seat as usual. His job is safe, for now

196922 jhfreedom, replying to jhfreedom, -11, #829 of 2184 🔗

I am starting to properly despair now. Burnham – love him or not – is right in that we are all headed for Tier 3 anyway. This is no longer about data, since a single case now has the ability to send the authorities into a spiral.

Set aside the vaccine pros and cons and whether you will take it or not, we’d better pray that the vaccine marks the end of this nightmare otherwise…it doesn’t bear thinking about.

196929 ▶▶ earthkiss, replying to jhfreedom, 7, #830 of 2184 🔗

How dare you suggest I pray for vaccine.

196935 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to jhfreedom, 9, #831 of 2184 🔗

Compliance will bring more authoritarian demands, I fear.

196937 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to jhfreedom, 20, #832 of 2184 🔗

The vaccine will not lead to a relaxation of any regulations. It will be the gateway to the most complete totalitarian control system in all of human history.

196963 ▶▶▶ Crazy Times, replying to Richard O, 9, #833 of 2184 🔗

I really wish more people would realise this. It’s already been stated publicly that with a vaccine these measures will stay present (based on their estimations of 50% effectiveness of a vaccine) for a long time (probably never going away). It will also lead to the implementation digital passports which track and contain pretty much everything about your life and are used to deny people access to services, finance, travel, etc. It will be the Chinese model on steroids.

196939 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to jhfreedom, 4, #834 of 2184 🔗

So you’re assuming an effective vaccine is around the corner? Or that effective or not its mere existence would satisfy the aims of those in power?

196955 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Charlie Blue, -7, #835 of 2184 🔗

The latter.

Otherwise, what on earth is the objective here? I cannot believe there is a worldwide conspiracy to destroy democracy. Most government are too incompetent for that.

196977 ▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to jhfreedom, 2, #836 of 2184 🔗

THe inploding financial system is the reason for all that is happening.

This is the attempt to keep control.

I don’t think it will work, but from the standpoint of power they have to try.

196997 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to calchas, #837 of 2184 🔗

Please will you explain this a bit, calchas. The imploding financial system is the reason for all that is happening.
This is the attempt to keep control.
Why are they building up monstrous piles of debt?

197068 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Rosie, 5, #838 of 2184 🔗

Since 1971 there has not been an anchor for the monetary system, meaning that governments, corporates and individuals have been able to rack up debt with little constraint..

2008 was a shot across the bows, after which all of the above doubled down on debt creation, which however has less and less impact on the real economy.

Inability to service debt at market interest rates forced central banks to lower interest rates to negative territory across much of the world. The rest are following.

September 2019 -overnight interest rates in the US surged to 10%. In the following months the US Fed bought time by shovelling hundreds of billions into the system.

Money supply everywhere is now growing exponentially.

There are two different ways this could go, which are really the same thing – hyperinflation or a currency reform, writing down the value of all paper money in terms of real things

There is an additional problem in that the USD, which is at the epicentre of this coming crisis, is the means of payment for the overwhelming majority of global trade. In either scenario – hyperinflation or currency reform global trade will seize up and grind to a halt.

The challenge for governments in this scenario is to guarantee the flow of essential goods, such as food, fuel and medicine, as well as the maintenance of public order.

This is all happening at a time when boomers are retiring. The greatest debts of the system are to these people in the form of promised pensions and health care.

There has been no money put aside for these.They are all unfunded liabilities.

197070 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to calchas, -1, #839 of 2184 🔗

Many thanks calchas. I’ve taken a copy of that.
Any thoughts about what they will do next? Do they intend to write off the debts (along with everything else I guess) as I’ve heard said.
If they wanted to rescue the situation you describe, why are they making it worse by destroying the tax base and destroying cheap energy ?

197082 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Rosie, 1, #840 of 2184 🔗

You are welcome Rosie.

The current measure have allowed governments to install the infrastructure of emergency, accustoming the populace to a sense of abnormality, getting them used to the compliance and micromanagement, that governments assume will be necessary.

197270 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Rosie, #841 of 2184 🔗

Because the situation is beyond saving within the current paradigm.

Which is one reason spending is going through the roof. They know the system can’t be saved. They know nothing will ever be paid back – in real terms.

197244 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ dickyboy, replying to Rosie, 2, #842 of 2184 🔗

if you were about to be made bankrupt but had a credit card available with 20k of unused credit – what would you do?

196986 ▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #843 of 2184 🔗

I don’t favour the worldwide conspiracy narrative either, JH. But I do think politicians around the world are now on a runaway train fuelled by power and hubris that they have no intention of jumping off.

197053 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Charlie Blue, 4, #844 of 2184 🔗

The climate change story is assuredly a worldwide conspiracy, if by conspiracy you mean consistent action on the part of governments and big players worldwide. Knowing that there is already one such conspiracy (where the aim is to control the population) makes it reasonable to suppose that there is a substantial degree of conspiracy in the covid response, which has the same effect, to control the population.
When you look at the detail, that the same bodies support both stories using the same techniques, then I my view, then accepting the theory that there is a high degree of collusion and orchestration becomes unavoidable.
That’s what I think anyway.

197133 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #845 of 2184 🔗

It is not the governments you need worry about – it is the people behind the governments (and I include the senior ranks of the civil service in this grouping).

A Swiss bank account set aside for you can work wonders.

197237 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Ewan Duffy, 1, #846 of 2184 🔗

Only if you can get to Switzerland !

196953 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to jhfreedom, 6, #847 of 2184 🔗

This ends only when we end it.

Johnson is smirking because he thinks we never will.

196957 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Ovis, 3, #848 of 2184 🔗

Look at the polls and weep. Most people want this crap. Maybe they deserve it as a result…

196962 ▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to jhfreedom, 10, #849 of 2184 🔗

The polls are lies. Pollsters at this point know their ‘version of reality’ will not be tested at the ballot box any time soon, and they believe that people have been too effectively isolated to talk to each other. So they are just lying.

196970 ▶▶ calchas, replying to jhfreedom, 3, #850 of 2184 🔗

THe statements have already arrived that vaccines will not end it.

196976 ▶▶ John P, replying to jhfreedom, 4, #851 of 2184 🔗

“I am starting to properly despair now.”

I felt like that months ago. What took you so long?

Eventually I realised that there was nothing to be gained by adopting a defeatist attitude to this. It does not help matters.

Better to stand up to it.

197005 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to jhfreedom, 2, #852 of 2184 🔗

That kind of suggests we don’t do anything but roll over. Why should we?

196928 Steve Jones, replying to Steve Jones, 1, #853 of 2184 🔗

re: For example, if the incidence of a disease in the population is 0.1% and the test has a false positive rate of 5%, the probability that a randomly-selected individual testing positive actually has the disease is approximately one in fifty: about 2%, or a probability of 0.02.

  • Since the incidence of the virus is 0.1%, 100 of our 100,000 will have the virus.
  • Since the FPR is 5%, 5% of the 99,900 people in our sample who are not infected will test falsely positive. That makes 4995 false positive tests.
  • If we assume that the test yields no false negatives, the test of our 100,000 citizens will yield 100 true positives, 4995 false positives, and 94905 true negatives,
  • a positive test has a reliability = truepos/allposresults or
  • 100/(100+4995)= 0.019 or 1.9% likely. not 2% but close enough.

196958 ▶▶ John P, replying to Steve Jones, 3, #854 of 2184 🔗

You can assess it just by recognising the limits of the test. It detects viral genetic material and not live (infectious) virus.

It has been demonstrated experimentally that (dead) viral matter persists in the body for several months after a live infection has gone. That is to say, after the body has overcome (killed) the virus.

So the PCR test generally does not detect a live infection as the period of live infection is only a couple of weeks.

Probably around 80-90% of test results (that have accurately detected SARS-CoV-2 genetic material) could be false positives on that basis, especially when the virus has been in circulation for several months as here.

And it would be my guess that those suffering from “long covid” may have overcome the virus itself, but have been injured by the infection and the body’s fight against it. I’m not convinced by those who want to claim that the virus is still live in those cases, but I would be happy to be corrected on that point if wrong.

196988 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to John P, 2, #855 of 2184 🔗

That’s the problem, you cannot prove whether those with post SARS-COV-2 syndrome still have active virus or not. The RT-PCR test could be positive as could an antibody test, because there is a hysteresis between infection and viral clearance/antibody clearance of up to 3 months. It is possible that the post viral syndrome attributed to SARS-COV-2/Covid19 is actually a mild autoimmune response. There have been instances of type 1 diabetes developing post SARS-COV-2 infection, type 1 Diabetes is an autoimmune disease.

198309 ▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to p02099003, 1, #856 of 2184 🔗

Interesting, I wondered about that. Type 1 and other autoimmune diseases often follow flu or measles.

My money is on Long Covid, post-viral sydrome in general, ME etc. resulting from trashed mitiochondria, which take significant time and effort to replace

197127 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to John P, 1, #857 of 2184 🔗

“Probably around 80-90% of test results (that have accurately detected SARS-CoV-2 genetic material) could be false positives on that basis”

I did argue that point with my brother who claimed that it was only half of the tests that are likely to be false positive but given that we have no other means of determining the presence of the virus, it has to do. #facepalm

196947 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 14, #858 of 2184 🔗

The EHO woman is back. My heart is pounding. Why the eff do these bastards always visit at lunchtime?

196954 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to kh1485, 11, #859 of 2184 🔗

Good luck kh; we are with you.

197020 ▶▶ steph, replying to kh1485, 4, #860 of 2184 🔗

Keep strong.

197113 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to kh1485, 2, #861 of 2184 🔗

Tell her to fuck off, what they gonna do? Close you down?

197230 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to kh1485, 2, #862 of 2184 🔗

Why the eff do these bastards always visit at lunchtime?

After a free sarnie ?! 🙂

197381 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to kh1485, 3, #863 of 2184 🔗

A bit more theatre from the EHO. Visit at lunchtime – double whammy, catch us out and show the punters that this establishment is being inspected.

She said “hello” to me as though the other week hadn’t happened. I ignored her and walked away. She spoke to my business partner, again with close questioning about the T&T rubbish. We were clearly being checked up on.

She had the brass neck to ask if we needed any questions answering as though it were some bloody courtesy call. And then to put the tin lid on it: :”if there’s anything else you need, just call me” Yeah, if I ever need some toss-pot to make the unilateral decision to try to hospitalise me, I’ll know who to call”

196949 Jo, replying to Jo, 14, #864 of 2184 🔗

If this hasn’t already been posted, it is absolutely gold star. Letter cited by Dr Mike Yeadon on LinkedIn. You need to login but here is an excerpt. And it has appendices, well referenced.

It does seem that the Government’s policy endpoint is presently mass-vaccination supplemented by mass-testing until the vaccine is available. While I am not implying the pharmaceutical industry is behind a conspiracy it is nevertheless an industry which has a history of exploiting public health scares for its own profits. Following the 2009/2010 H1N1 pandemic the European Council launched an investigation into the influence of the pharmaceutical industry on the WHO and the global swine flu campaign. This was seen as a step towards improving transparency of what it called “the Golden Triangle of corruption” between the WHO, the pharmaceutical industry and academic scientists. The Parliamentary Assembly of the European Council adopted Resolution 1749 (2010) calling for more transparency and changes to the handling of future pandemics. A selection of the salient points, which are instantly recognisable and applicable to the present COVID “pandemic”, are reproduced in Appendix C. Regrettably little appears to have been learnt in the decade since this resolution was adopted.

196965 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Jo, 4, #865 of 2184 🔗

I think we all know this.
But we are in the new dark ages.
We can stand there and explain why witches don’t really exist, that your neighbour can’t actually cast spells because spells aren’t real. Like then, facts now don’t count. The truth is defined by what everyone says it is.

196973 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to stewart, #866 of 2184 🔗

We are not in any sort of new dark ages.

196980 ▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to John P, 2, #867 of 2184 🔗

What were the dark ages other than a period of economic and cultural deterioration during which scientific knowledge played little or no role? I hope this one won’t last hundreds of years, but I think the comparison is more than justified.

196992 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Charlie Blue, 6, #868 of 2184 🔗

‘The Dark Ages’ was a misnomer for a period when a traditional classical view of history didn’t fit.

This ‘dark age’ is truly dark.

197120 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to John P, 2, #869 of 2184 🔗

Yet. Your overlords just haven’t revealed that part of the plan to you.

197223 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to stewart, 1, #870 of 2184 🔗

Apparently we have witches at our KBF group …

196968 ▶▶ John P, replying to Jo, 2, #871 of 2184 🔗

Yes, I think the lack of transparency is fuelling the conspiracy theories as people (not unreasonably) are trying to fill in the gaps.

The government certainly don’t want their own incompetence to be laid bare.

At least the WHO now seems to be strongly opposed to lockdowns.

196985 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to John P, 7, #872 of 2184 🔗

Well I’d say that the age of reason is slipping away from us and a new age of superstition taking its place. The term Dark Ages means different things to different people. How to stem the tide of superstition, that’s the question, surely, rather than arguing over words.
We could debate conspiracies properly, beginning by a definition of the term, but I don’t see that as a priority. I think it is a priority to either (a) debate it properly, or (b) stop wasting time on the matter.
How, in practice, do we go about rolling back the government’s edicts, regardless of what motivates them ?

197006 ▶▶▶▶ Hieronimusb, replying to Rosie, 5, #873 of 2184 🔗

In practice there is only one solution: mass (non-violent) civil disobedience followed by a properly constituted, evidence based public inquiry. Don’t hold your breath!

197017 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Hieronimusb, 3, #874 of 2184 🔗

Are you aware of the public enquiry ongoing in Germany? It’s being done by people who in any sensible society would be pillars of the community. Instead they are excluded by the gov and media – and as angry as it’s possible to be. Their ancestors have seen it all before and they make no bones about comparing today to Germany’s 1930s.
Group called ACU2020

197157 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jo, replying to Rosie, 1, #875 of 2184 🔗

They are my biggest hope.

197170 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Hieronimusb, replying to Rosie, 1, #876 of 2184 🔗

Yes, I was at the protest in Trafalgar Sq and then Speakers Corner where Heiko Schoening (founder member) was arrested 26 September – was also there 29 August. They mean business, I hope and pray that they will force the German govt to recognise that lockdowns are catastrophically wrong, which will lead to worldwide recognition sooner or later. Meanwhile, we must keep the faith and continue to speak out.

197083 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Jo, 1, #877 of 2184 🔗

Thanks. Great information

196983 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tom Blackburn, 7, #879 of 2184 🔗

What the f.?

SAGE suddenly coming over all concerned about the (or one of) major issues in this shit-show of a response.

I think most of us here were only 6 months in advance of their thinking.

197013 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to RickH, 1, #880 of 2184 🔗

I’ve not even read it. Saw the title and thought ‘bullshit’

197029 ▶▶ merlin, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #881 of 2184 🔗

SAGE are politicians , they are just preparing their defence .

196982 John P, 3, #882 of 2184 🔗

This is very nice and has been doing the rounds on twitter this morning.

https://twitter.com/JanaHisham/status/1317391879646924800

It may make you cry (even my eyes moistened) but in a nice way.

196984 John P, replying to John P, 17, #883 of 2184 🔗

People would rather live in crippling fear than find out that they have been lied to about the threat.

How many mask-wearers are more scared of the mandate and social ostracism than the virus?

– Naomi Seibt (Germany, twitter)

196996 ▶▶ Drummerman, replying to John P, 4, #884 of 2184 🔗

Spot on, IMO. People don’t want to be ‘bad’ in the eyes of others. It’s a quantum jump to get beyond the fear of social criticism. Once you’ve made that leap it’s “full steam ahead and fuck this shit”

196999 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to Drummerman, 5, #885 of 2184 🔗

Be fair. I suspect some just fear being fined. Some have also experienced confrontations. Now I’m 6ft1 and pretty big.. so I have experienced no confrontations.. and only one bad look.. but it’s a tinderbox.. because on antideps and reeling from the stress of this year I fear what I might be a handful if pushed…

197034 ▶▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to chaos, 4, #886 of 2184 🔗

yeah 6″4 here no issues so far. I have heard a few (mostly woman) on here who have been challenged though. As is often the case bullies go for what they perceive to be the easy target.

197142 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jo, replying to JHuntz, 2, #887 of 2184 🔗

I haven’t been challenged. 168cms, female. But I deliberately don’t look at other customers in shops (probably wouldn’t in normal times) and the staff have been fine

197276 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to Jo, 7, #888 of 2184 🔗

I am repeatedly challenged, in shops and cafes. I have moved through anxiety and victimhood and have recently emerged into a position of absolute confidence and pure disdain for everyone who collaborates with the mask law.
Now, it’s like dog training. At the door to a restaurant or shop the employee challenges me. I don’t really care how polite the challenge is: as a challenge, it is an act of collaboration and an attempt to carry out an assault on me. I make eye contact and maintain it. I state: ‘I am exempt.’ The tone is crisp and I do not smile. I hold the eye contact. What happens next is the submission gesture: the challenger backs down. ‘Oh that’s fine/ I’m sorry/ oh OK.’ Having asserted dominance, I enter the restaurant and carry myself with graceful self-assurance.
I have found that wearing the lanyard can be unhelpful, to my state of mind. If I’m challenged when I’m wearing it, I am more likely to feel persecuted; genuinely sorry for myself. It’s better not to wear it: then, when I am challenged, I feel powerful and unbowed.

197202 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to JHuntz, 3, #889 of 2184 🔗

I’m one of them and it seems to be the women who are the worst. As I told Mr Bart, bet that Karen would not have challenged he had I been a 6 foot tall man built like Arnold Schwarzenegger or heaven forbid, a black person.

196998 ▶▶ Drummerman, replying to John P, 6, #890 of 2184 🔗

Agreed. But how many in practice will get fined. It’s all about instilling fear.

197004 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to John P, 3, #891 of 2184 🔗

That girl is also spot on when it comes to climate change!

197021 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to John P, 5, #892 of 2184 🔗

Naomi is correct, coming to terms with having been deliberately fooled by hmg and the media will be difficult leading to great embarrassment and, possibly anger.

197043 ▶▶ RickH, replying to John P, 5, #893 of 2184 🔗

There’s no single explanation – just a complex of overlapping attitudes.

I do get a bit impatient with the ‘they’re all stupid’ explanation (even when I come out with it myself in frustration) – because it underestimates what this brainwashing and blanket propaganda taps into.

… and yes, one of those emotional threads is that a lot of people find it really hard to believe that massive venality lies at the heart of a ‘democratic’ government.

That important social quality of Trust has been thoroughly undermined by the Goebbels Brigade of the SPI-B. They should never be forgiven, and should be publicly shamed.

197212 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to RickH, #894 of 2184 🔗

– shamed
+ shot

197069 ▶▶ earthkiss, replying to John P, #895 of 2184 🔗

Just moved up Youtube/Twitter/Google/FB “For Deletion” list.

197071 ▶▶ earthkiss, replying to John P, #896 of 2184 🔗

Just in case you didn’t know…

It’s really easy to download entire youtube playlists with youtube-dl.

Before they ramp up the purge.

196989 chaos, replying to chaos, 15, #897 of 2184 🔗

I admire those people who are able to just get on with their lives expecting this madness to end at some point. Not believing the propaganda anymore.. just getting on with it. My friend Simon is like that. Though I fear for his gas boiler business. He doesn’t. They aren’t going to get rid of gas boilers regardless of what they say now he says.

I feel I have done my bit. I have managed to get some friends and family, who were once scared witless, to even entertain the idea of the great reset. They are now as annoyed as me. Regardles, whether you believe in the great reset or fuckups.. a resistance to either/both can hopefully end this madness. I’ve had to step back a bit for a while.. I don’t know if I was the only nutter here spending 4 or 5 hours every day readingf everything corona related? I’m back on antideps… something I had managed to quit. I’m just hoping this dishonest madness ends, and some kind of decent reset is there for people.. cheaper houses.. more manufacturing… not the daft green dystopian Shangri-Lala land one proposed by Prick Charles, Stanley and Bojo the gigolo clowns, Wanksock, and Klaus Sindy Barbie and Goldschild Sacherfeller.

197000 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to chaos, 6, #898 of 2184 🔗

Part of the new green utopia is no new age boilers from 2030 I thinkiti was or maybe earlier.

Announced a few years ago.

197014 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to chaos, 4, #899 of 2184 🔗

Nicely put chaos, good luck with the meds.

197206 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to chaos, 4, #900 of 2184 🔗

You’ve more than done your bit. Taking a break sometimes is essential – no msm, no interweb, no phone – nature, food, exercise, books.

197003 chaos, replying to chaos, 1, #901 of 2184 🔗

I think Sir Queef Starmer looks more like the lovechild of Greg Davies and Max Headroom.

197007 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to chaos, 1, #902 of 2184 🔗

Stop it. I’m already feeling queasy today.

197009 karenovirus, 1, #903 of 2184 🔗

BBC R2 12.40 Jeremy Vine show discussing human trial Challenge Vaccine

‘The immunity may not last very long, we will always need new and better vaccines to protect the population”

Prof Robert Reid (Reed?).

197011 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #904 of 2184 🔗

I wonder what the top brass of the military think of the country’s rapid descent into more and more madness?
Surely our armed forces leaders cannot be as stupid as our so called government along with the pathetic opposition who are even worse.
I am thinking that our only salvation is a military coup; what do other sceptics think?

197016 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Fingerache Philip., #905 of 2184 🔗

Good point, I was wondering what the armed forces are doing about social distancing – if any thing at all. Anyone know?

197022 ▶▶▶ Crazy Times, replying to DressageRider, #906 of 2184 🔗

It doesn’t sound like our military is in the best shape at the moment
https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1318192267836928000

197046 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to DressageRider, 1, #907 of 2184 🔗

I wondered about that. One suspects they are ignoring distancing, masks, testing and carrying on as normal and that they are all pretty healthy.

197019 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #908 of 2184 🔗

Surely our armed forces leaders cannot be as stupid as our so called government”

Oh – but they can be! The establishment is the establishment.

197030 ▶▶ Hieronimusb, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #909 of 2184 🔗

Try asking Tobias Ellwood..! 🙁

197044 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to chaos, 1, #911 of 2184 🔗

👹 very naughty

197015 Crazy Times, replying to Crazy Times, 11, #912 of 2184 🔗

So Hong Kong & Italy now insist on COVID testing before boarding the plane and they are trialling this at Heathrow. £80 online if booked in advance. This is basically going to destroy air travel. If you’re travelling on a business trip, are you really going to be paying £80 more to fly, possibly be then sent back at the airport just before boarding (I assume to then isolate for 14 days if positive), wreck all your travel plans, loss of income, loss of money from hotel bookings (no insurance companies cover COVID), etc. If you test positive at the airport, how do you even get home? I’m assuming you can’t get on public transport or in a private taxi?

If you test negative, you’re still going to have to endure the misery of a long haul flight to Hong Kong wearing a mask and possibly isolation when you get there or when you return. I just can’t believe people are going to bother with this nonsense, which I’m sure is exactly what they want.

197027 ▶▶ Biggles, replying to Crazy Times, 9, #913 of 2184 🔗

Greta must be loving this.

197028 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Crazy Times, 1, #914 of 2184 🔗

I can’t even get my head round the travel thing. Like do they test you at both sides? If positive at either side presume you have to isolate for 14 days? If you are found positive and can’t travel do you even get your money back?

This has to be the death knell.

197060 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to JHuntz, 3, #915 of 2184 🔗

That’s their intention, it’s what Covid is all about.

197032 ▶▶ matt, replying to Crazy Times, 4, #916 of 2184 🔗

Business travel is just about the only thing that won’t be harmed by this. If I’m travelling for business, it’s the company’s money, not my money and the £80 is a meaningless fraction of the cost of my flight to Hong Kong anyway, so no problem.

On the other hand, my company has had a global travel ban on since February, so currently irrelevant anyway. And when it’s finally lifted, my suspicion is that clients will no longer think it’s a sensible thing for me to do to spend hours on a plane just to meet with them, so I’d guess the opportunity to travel will be much smaller.

197054 ▶▶▶ Crazy Times, replying to matt, 5, #917 of 2184 🔗

Pre COVID I travelled abroad almost every week of the year for nearly 15 years. There is no way I would travel abroad with this madness. How would a client handle the situation of me not turning up (or anyone else) who was essential? It would potentially derail £100k’s of work every time it happened. Why would I risk travelling if I was running the risk of a 2 week quarantine that would then derail my own personal or other business plans? I guess people aren’t allowed to make personal plans anymore though anyway…

Agree though, companies won’t be sending people abroad in the same way, if it at all now.

197077 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Crazy Times, 1, #918 of 2184 🔗

The vaccine has a Luciferese enzyme which emits a light which can be picked up an electronic device.

This is all drip feeding. So they have these awfully cumbersome quarantine and testing processes, industries crippled. So when they announce a vaccine which means you can scan people to allow travel – thereby opening up your travel again – I wonder if they’ll be much oppsoiton from companies.

It’ll be up to individuals to stop it. However, the price to be paid could be very high indeed, at least in the short term.

197088 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Crazy Times, 1, #919 of 2184 🔗

I’m with you – and for the last few years, my travel schedule was similar. Yet another virtual presentation yesterday that in normal times I unquestionably would have flown to the States for. It you’re right, under these circumstances it wouldn’t have been worth the risk. I would have been as likely not to have been able to turn up. Better stay at home and stare at a screen again.

197036 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Crazy Times, 4, #920 of 2184 🔗

There are fewer countries now that don’t require a test before travel that don’t. It is all a load of bollocks. The best I have heard was Shapps plan for a corridor with the US to avoid quarantine:

Self isolate for 2 weeks before travel

Genius!

My industry is fucked. Just been on one to one meetings with hoteliers around the world and the measures they are putting place are beyond crazy.

197048 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Sarigan, 5, #921 of 2184 🔗

Today’s test mandate is tomorrow’s vaccine mandate, the ID is already being rolled out.

197064 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Sarigan, 1, #922 of 2184 🔗

They are following the WEF controlled WTTC new normal guidelines.

Going along with their own industry’s suicide.

197039 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Crazy Times, 8, #923 of 2184 🔗

Yet probably pre-tested celebrities soar in on private chartered flights and quarantine in luxury spas. Australia must be raking it in off this niche market.

197061 ▶▶▶ Crazy Times, replying to DRW, 5, #924 of 2184 🔗

It will definitely be one rule for them and one rule for us, just as they always postured when banging on about climate change while hopping around the world in private jets.

197047 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Crazy Times, 6, #925 of 2184 🔗

Been saying this to colleagues in the industry for a while now, they don’t seem to understand. This testing obsession is not the way to revive air travel, and airlines ought to be putting their energy into lobbying governments to end the pointless quarantines.

I think people might bother with it to begin with, because most people still seem to believe the tests are accurate, but once the stories begin to emerge about people who aren’t ill being denied boarding and then ordered to isolate etc then it’s doomed to fail. At £80 a test it’s also a huge blow to low cost carriers, in some cases the test will cost more than the flight!

197059 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Crazy Times, 10, #926 of 2184 🔗

Of course it is deliberate, it’s linked to the Climate nutters who want travelling quashed, although for the politicians and their rich friends that won’t be a problem. No restrictions for them.

197079 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Crazy Times, 5, #927 of 2184 🔗

This is effectively the end of civilian air travel, and I consider the airlines complicit in their own demise by going along with this. I wonder how many airports will be left in the UK in a few years?

197111 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Crazy Times, 4, #928 of 2184 🔗

Always looked like the plan, starting with travel for the Sustainable Future. It incorporates quite a few money making ventures including the massive pharma industry investors.

197213 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Crazy Times, 1, #929 of 2184 🔗

This is not only killing the aviation industry but also travel and tourism as a whole. Going on holiday can be already expensive and this will add to the cost.

I’ve long held that this crisis is a heaven sent for the green movement who want a return to the bad old days when travel was only the preserve of the rich and that the rest of us should be content with Bognor Regis and Blackpool.

197397 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Crazy Times, 2, #930 of 2184 🔗

I am due to host a conference in Asia in November, there is NO QUESTION of actually being there. It is a nightmare of liabilities and difficulties both for employee and employer at this moment, plus I would probably outright refuse given that I can barely breathe through a proper mask and my mask full of stabbed holes might attract attention. I won’t travel until we have normalisation (assuming I still have a job), even if that means 2022.

197031 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #931 of 2184 🔗

Press Conference from Pfeffel 5pm

197035 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Tom Blackburn, #932 of 2184 🔗

Burnham gets Detention.

197033 Albie, replying to Albie, 1, #933 of 2184 🔗

Great. Boris addresses the nation at 5pm. What further horrors are in store?

197038 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Albie, #934 of 2184 🔗

Nòooooòoòoòoooooo

197040 ▶▶ Crazy Times, replying to Albie, 2, #935 of 2184 🔗

“Firebreak” over half term would be my guess.

197049 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Crazy Times, 2, #936 of 2184 🔗

I said yesterday – he was due to have his next briefing next week, which would be too late to announce a “firebreak” because half term would already be underway. Watch out for something early this week, I said, because it’s likely to be that.

Bugger.

197058 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Albie, 5, #937 of 2184 🔗

The Fat Controller will close down all the station. Thomas, James and their friends will lose their jobs or businesses. Poverty, heart attacks, cancer and suicides will rise exponentially.
The Fat Controller and his chums will meet in the Commons bar tonight, having closed everything else in the country and congratulate themselves on a job well done, while comparing the values of their share portfolios and Davos loyalty card points.

197093 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to thinkaboutit, 2, #938 of 2184 🔗

BASTARDS!!!!!

197105 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Albie, 1, #939 of 2184 🔗

Well – you won’t get much of a return if you bet on it being pure shit and bumbling nonsense.

197042 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 4, #940 of 2184 🔗

Quarantine to be halved by December? Just in time for our Establishment to get away for Christmas. You can read them like a book it’s a pity so many out there can’t!

197050 ▶▶ Hieronimusb, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #941 of 2184 🔗

Who wrote the book – Stephen King?!

197110 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Hieronimusb, 1, #942 of 2184 🔗

Re: Stephen King.
The way most of the country is behaving you would think that CV was like “Captain Tripps” from The Stand.
Apologies to Stephen King fans if I got it wrong.
It’s been a long long time since I read it.

197166 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #943 of 2184 🔗

Is the virus going to change its infectious properties in time for Christmas then? How do they know this?

197045 Al T, replying to Al T, 14, #944 of 2184 🔗

Oh God, just seen that Johnson is going to be ‘speaking to the nation’s at 17:00 this evening accompanied by Jonathan van lockdown and one of Dr Doom’s acolytes.

What joyous new restrictions await us….

197052 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to Al T, 8, #945 of 2184 🔗

Probably wanting to follow that twit in Wales and the witch up in Scotland.

197095 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Al T, 4, #946 of 2184 🔗

We will just do what we always do.
Ignore the pratt and all those around him.

197134 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Al T, #947 of 2184 🔗

Is it not just to announce what’s going on in Manchester?

197159 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Al T, 1, #948 of 2184 🔗

Oh God. Circuit breaker here we come.

197163 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, #949 of 2184 🔗

Actually didn’t they say the Clown Show would be on every week from now on anyway?

197182 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Al T, 3, #950 of 2184 🔗

… Johnson is going to be ‘speaking to the nation’s at 17:00 this evening …

Who the flying fuck is going to watch that ?

I have some pins available for people to stick in their eyes, far less painful. 🙂

197051 janeinthemindfield, replying to janeinthemindfield, 40, #951 of 2184 🔗

Dear fellow sceptics, I have been reading this site for several months now for some solace and consolation that I am not alone in finding the govt response so destructive and disproportionate. I have made the occasional comment, but often I am usually offline late at night, just seeking some comfort. Life is extremely difficult for me because I have a severely disabled child and I am on my own.

I have now found myself to be utterly terrified of what may be coming. It is so very clear that the destructive lockdowns and closing of the NHS to severely ill non covid patients as well as the incarceration of students and the elderly, the imposition of population wide masks and the willful misrepresentation of the statistics is extremely sinister. I do not believe that anyone who could get into government could really be so stupid when it is blindingly obvious that these actions are severely destructive and utterly disproportionate… (to repeat myself)

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON???

Does anyone have any ideas as to where to go to get away from this terrifying madness?

Is anywhere safe? Is it worth trying to escape?

I know I sound nuts… I feel like I am completely trapped in a terrifying nightmare with no escape…

I am jumping around like a headless chicken! Am I overreacting? Can anyone offer any comfort here? Just looking at history, the implications of what is going on are absolutely terrifying (to use that word again)!!

I really hope someone has some reassurance

197065 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to janeinthemindfield, 10, #952 of 2184 🔗

Dear Jane
Thanks for speaking out. Please comment more and join in these discussions more.
I’ve written a diary/story about my emotions, even though my personal situation is not as bad as yours, I relate especially to the fear that you speak of.
We have few choices but my choice is to fight back as best I can …. and I only wish we could organise ourselves better, and we need to work on that together. Rosie x

197066 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to janeinthemindfield, 10, #953 of 2184 🔗

The reassurance is that you are not alone. Yes, there are agendas beyond your control but you alone make the choice. Hold your head high and keep positive. There are two ways this ends. With the dystopia you fear or with those that have quite clearly overplayed their hand in pursuit of other agendas in jail. I truly believe that will happen, for it is tbe only way that truth is not extinguished.

You, like me, are often hoping it will just change. That a crucial piece of evidence will just put it to bed. That’s a bad way to think of it. It’s the same as the fearful just hoping a vaccine will allow them to come out of their homes again.

Instead, I just put my trust in truth. You’ll need to dig deep but know that you are living in history and will win this battle.

197067 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to janeinthemindfield, 10, #954 of 2184 🔗

Hi there. You aren’t nuts at all, I feel varying degrees of negative emotions on this all the time. Especially as a mother concerned about what sort of world our children are growing up in. You are not alone.
I am not sure about the Great reset stuff, I haven’t even really looked into it much, I just follow common sense which leads me to believe this is all a pile of steaming shite we are being fed. I do smell a rat of sorts though.
I have also considered where we could run away to in the world away from this!
I’ve a history of poor mental health so I have to try my best not to allow this all to overwhelm me.
Take a screen break for a few hours in nature with your son and some time out and away from all the madness, if possible, will help your state of mind.
Also, compared to where we were back in March, a LOT more people are increasingly becoming sceptical so there HAS to be some hope.

197167 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Janice21, #955 of 2184 🔗

… this is all a pile of steaming shite we are being fed. I do smell a rat of sorts though.

Rat shite ?! 🙂

197072 ▶▶ Hieronimusb, replying to janeinthemindfield, 16, #956 of 2184 🔗

You are experiencing a normal, sane response to a catastrophe which is beyond your (our) control. If possible, decouple yourself from the hysterical assaults on our liberty and concentrate on the small things in everyday life which bring joy and gratitude, no matter how trifling they may appear to be by comparison. Many share your desperation. Read Max Ehrmann, keep your light burning.

199035 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Hieronimusb, #957 of 2184 🔗

Thank you for your wonderful comment, Hieronimusb

197076 ▶▶ CGL, replying to janeinthemindfield, 5, #958 of 2184 🔗

Someone like Ann may have some comfort or optimism for you – she’s good at that, as are others here – we do need them.

I think we all feel this way on here to a lesser or greater extent. Terrified is a word I often use now. It is overwhelming sometimes, when it dawns on you again that you are not in control of any element of your life, and you can do nothing to make it feel happy or good, you cant look forward to anything and you are just waiting to be told how much more of your life is going to be stolen from you – like today now hearing that the fat bloke is coming to ruin our evening and more than likely our half terms (and another holiday down the pan for our family). The only comfort I can give is that I completely understand how you feel.

197086 ▶▶ Quernus, replying to janeinthemindfield, 7, #959 of 2184 🔗

I totally understand where you’re coming from. But remember to trust your own experience of what’s happening – my everyday life is filled with beautiful things, I say hello to everyone I meet, masked or not, and so much of what I read here, and on the wider internet, doesn’t actually translate to my own experience. So whenever you feel overwhelmed, just look outside your window and acknowledge your own personal reality of what’s happening. Everything else is just a story that we’re being told, that our own minds seize upon, which can often make things seem much worth than they really are. Sending you hugs. Kirsten.

197087 ▶▶ RickH, replying to janeinthemindfield, 12, #960 of 2184 🔗

Jane – Reassurance only in the sense that you are not on your own in terms of your feelings, and I think most of us here will feel for you in your extra responsibilities as a mother and carer.

You don’t sound nuts at all. You sound entirely sane. Anyone who finds this current situation sinister and a corruption of all that we value is sane . The mad are those cheerfully donning masks and hiding themselves away at the command of Nurse Ratched.

Is there anywhere to escape to? To be realistic – not really in the geographical sense. The escape is finding people of a like mind and building bubbles of resistance rather than isolation.

We – partner and I – have gone through periods that have been pretty low, even given the fact that in objective terms, our circumstances are better than a hell of a lot. But – as you’ve indicated – its not just material circumstances that are the thing. It’s the destruction of society beyond the belief of even those of us with a pretty sceptical bent. Your disgust at this process is – to say it again – a mark of intelligence and sanity. Not the opposite.

Hold on and keep tuned in to those who see it for what it is.

197098 ▶▶ alittleparty, replying to janeinthemindfield, 1, #961 of 2184 🔗

Stockholm or Minsk are my two current top suggestions.

A nice holiday is always a good idea if it is feasible.

197128 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to alittleparty, 2, #962 of 2184 🔗

We just wanted to go to Dorset!! Even that isn’t likely. There will be hell to pay if that’s what 5pm is about.

197107 ▶▶ Liam, replying to janeinthemindfield, 4, #963 of 2184 🔗

You are not overreacting. I just carry on hoping through bloody-minded stubbornness. Others have their own methods of finding comfort. Sending you love and best wishes to your child.

197130 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to janeinthemindfield, 4, #964 of 2184 🔗

Hi Jane – welcome!

Are you aware of the UsforThem campaign group? They’re a friendly bunch and would be able to provide advice and support regarding your child (especially if they’re in school as they’re campaigning for schools to return to full normality).

197242 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to janeinthemindfield, 5, #965 of 2184 🔗

Please remember you are not alone. There are little things you can do and as others have pointed out, hold your head high and keep buggering on.

The truth will win, its only a matter of time.

197507 ▶▶ annie, replying to janeinthemindfield, 1, #966 of 2184 🔗

Can’t reassure, but can say ‘You are not alone.’
Don’t be terrified.
Be brave.
Tell ’em to sod off.
Walk tall.
Don’t wear a face nappy.
Smile at people.
Be thankful you aren’t about to be hanged, gassed, or shot.
Get angry, thinking about what you’d like to do to the fiends who are oppressing us.
Refuse to be crushed.

197534 ▶▶▶ Al Pipp, replying to annie, -1, #967 of 2184 🔗

I think martial law will be the next step & thereafter being shot, hanged or gassed will follow. People over 50 are just useless eaters …politicians hate elections … It is coming

197075 Caroline Watson, replying to Caroline Watson, 5, #968 of 2184 🔗

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/oct/20/sage-experts-warn-of-impact-of-covid-policies-on-young-generation-z-harm-pandemic-coronavirus?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

The Guardian reporting Sage conclusions on the impact of lockdown on the young. The number one solution given is the Universal Basic Handout.

197090 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Caroline Watson, 15, #969 of 2184 🔗

Universal Basic Income is a trojan horse for total control. Create complete dependency on the state for your miserable subsistence handout, with all the strings attached. A very bad idea indeed.

197091 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Caroline Watson, 8, #970 of 2184 🔗

Oh FFS.

This won’t be paid for with tax revenues, it’ll be paid for by money creation – a flat tax robbery of anyone holding £s. And then they will have full and total control over the wage floor.

Loads of my (intelligent, well meaning) friends think this is a sensible answer. “Because in a few years all the work will be done by robots… so it’s necessary!” Fuckin eejits… take from the magic money tree without giving back and you doom society to a life of manipulated subservience. Scary.

197119 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Tee Ell, 7, #971 of 2184 🔗

Spot on.

It will be a direct transfer of my savings into the pockets of the unproductive.

I guess that’s my fault for trying to do the right thing and plan for my own future.

197125 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Mabel Cow, 6, #972 of 2184 🔗

I have savings with NS&I that I am certain will get raided, and possibly stolen outright, to pay for UBI.

197327 ▶▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Richard O, 1, #973 of 2184 🔗

Take some amount that you are comfortable with and go and buy gold sovereigns – anonymously if possible.

A little silver is not amiss.

197101 ▶▶ Liam, replying to Caroline Watson, 10, #974 of 2184 🔗

And sod any feeling of achievement, fulfillment or development. Sod a sense of purpose or ambition. Sod forming romances with work colleagues. Sod having any kind of recreation outside your own home. Just a credit handout to spend on food deliveries and Netflix. Alone.

197138 ▶▶▶ janeinthemindfield, replying to Liam, 7, #975 of 2184 🔗

I have been feeling completely trapped and truly in despair over the last few days over the barren emptiness and lack of any opportunities or outlets that lockdowns have left us.

197144 ▶▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to janeinthemindfield, 4, #976 of 2184 🔗

It’s horrendous i’m also at a crossroads in life where I have grown apart from my current friends, however I have no access to clubs/ societies to meet new ones. Thank god for family.

197231 ▶▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to janeinthemindfield, 5, #977 of 2184 🔗

Hang in there, Jane. I know it’s awful. So much has been banned, cancelled or changed beyond recognition by the imperative to ‘stay safe.’
I know how things should be and I will never give up waiting for normality to return. Lots of us here have that loyalty: you’re not entirely alone.

197498 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to janeinthemindfield, 2, #978 of 2184 🔗

Stop grizzling.
There are ways through, and ways round, and ways over.
Start by going to the nearest green place and seeing how many different plants you can identify.
Watch birds.
Walk a dog.
Walk yourself.
Take an interest in street architecture.
Something,anything, but NOT grizzling.

199842 ▶▶▶▶▶ janeinthemindfield, replying to annie, #979 of 2184 🔗

I am very trapped by caring for my severely disabled doubly incontinent, challenging, throwing and shrieking for hours nearly 17 years old child! I often care 18 hour days for days on end. I am exhausted with the forced labour, no matter how much pain I am in.

I would love to have the peace, time and strength to do the things you suggest! I love reading and playing the guitar when I get a moment!

197150 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Caroline Watson, #980 of 2184 🔗

And there was an article on the BBC Wales website about the UBH too.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54574155

197238 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Caroline Watson, 2, #982 of 2184 🔗

Why is it that the solution bandied about is always something like a handout? Why has never been anything like putting incentives for people to set up businesses and go from there?

197267 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Caroline Watson, 1, #983 of 2184 🔗

Massive turnout needed this Saturday in “Central London” for the “We Have the power event”

Organised by Save our Rights UK

Sign up with UniteForFreedom.uk

Supported by

Stop New Normal – Save Lives
Event202
StandUpX
Earth United

197081 NorthumbrianNomad, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 15, #984 of 2184 🔗

Thank you, coronavirus, for introducing me to a genuinely new experience. Being proud of the politicians of my region.

“North East leaders will tell Government to ‘sod off’ if they try to impose Tier 3 restrictions, says council boss”

197094 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 5, #985 of 2184 🔗

To be overridden by a new national lockdown to be imposed this evening at 5.00pm no doubt.

197100 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Richard O, 2, #986 of 2184 🔗

No doubt. But let’s see how obedient everyone is this time.

197117 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 4, #987 of 2184 🔗

The penalties for breaking the regulations will be stiffer this time round, so I expect near total compliance.

197156 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Richard O, #988 of 2184 🔗

There will be many ways to ‘break’ the regs – shopping, exercise, work, caring for vulnerable people, etc.

Don’t be unnecessarily doomy, Rich. 🙂

197261 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Richard O, 1, #989 of 2184 🔗

A risky strategy for the Rulespaffer. He may end up making more martyrs than he intends.

197132 ▶▶▶▶ janeinthemindfield, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 1, #990 of 2184 🔗

Well, hopefully not, but difficult to keep schools and workplaces open if govt closes them

197109 ▶▶ FlynnQuill, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 6, #991 of 2184 🔗

I’ll believe that when I see it! They’ll just be bought off. They couldn’t give a shite about us in the North East. A few weeks ago the Sunderland council leader was spouting that we are on a knife edge. I have it on good authority at the time that there was no one in Sunderland general hospital being treated for covid. They are all the same.

197152 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 2, #992 of 2184 🔗

I think the North East holding off on this one is SO important. If the govt can lock areas down when cases are level or falling, as in Manchester, and ICU etc at average levels then we are done for.

Also, if they don’t lock down and cases continue to fall, it’s a big piece of evidence against any lockdown imposed in panic. However if these areas cave in and cases continue to fall, it will be held up as evidence that local lockdowns work.

197089 John P, replying to John P, 9, #993 of 2184 🔗

Good journalism may be on life support at the Guardian, but here lockdown sceptic Simon Jenkins demonstrates that there may yet be life in the ageing bones:

“Judges are fighting back against Boris Johnson – and they’re right”

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/19/judges-boris-johnson-supreme-court-justice-lord-kerr?CMP=share_btn_tw

Excerpts:

“The departing and longest-serving supreme court justice, Lord Kerr, has condemned the prime minister’s persistent abuse of the judiciary as “unbridled power” and a “slippery slope to dictatorship.”

“Lord Kerr does not come across as a ferocious “lefty human rights activist lawyer”, as described by the prime minister and home secretary Priti Patel. His 11 years on the bench have been comparatively quiescent. Now he is joining his colleagues Lord Neuberger and Lord Sumption in warning variously against the government’s internal markets bill and its coronavirus lockdown regulations.”

197102 ▶▶ RickH, replying to John P, 3, #994 of 2184 🔗

I am always scathing about the Grauniad – but yes, in amongst the servile propaganda, there does appear the odd decent bit of writing.

197129 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to John P, 2, #995 of 2184 🔗

A couple of sceptical pieces in the G today

197148 ▶▶ Edward, replying to John P, 4, #996 of 2184 🔗

Simon Jenkins has always seemed a good guy to me. He has awareness and understanding of people outside the London bubble which most of the Guardian/BBC bunch lack.

197281 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to John P, 1, #997 of 2184 🔗

The job of a judge is to interpret the laws passed by parliament, and not a lot else.

It is parliament’s job to rein in government, not the judiciary. Not unless the government blatantly tries to do something parliament has not authorised.

Active judiciary is a disease we have imported from the EU. And one that needs chasing out more urgently than Covid.

The ballot box passes judgement on politicians, not the judiciary.

197097 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 9, #998 of 2184 🔗

Looking at the Daily Wail while listening to the X22 independent report – they’ve got round the youtube censorship at least temporarily – and it’s good to see all the anti-government comments on nearly every article.

I get the feeling that Government is losing control so trying to double down but the more they do the more obvious it becomes that it is now nothing to do with a virus.

Even Toby must be thinking of changing his mind on the incompetence theory by now.

197106 ▶▶ John P, replying to Awkward Git, -5, #999 of 2184 🔗

Well I’m not, changing my mind on it and I have up to now always agreed with Toby’s position.

I said this yesterday in a more detailed comment – you have to accept sometimes that people have different opinions and will not always agree with you.

Boris Johnson is in charge of the UK and any distraction from his responsibility for this fiasco only serves to give him strength.

Is that what you want?

197118 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to John P, 7, #1000 of 2184 🔗

You are quite wrong. The Great Reset is alas fact. Impossible, silly, to deny. Even Goldman Sachs has whole pages on its site dedicated to The Great Reset. However, it matters not whether people believe in incompetence or The WEF DAVOS Great Fuckup.. numbers opposing this madness increase in both camps. Both will help end this madness.

197131 ▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to John P, 3, #1001 of 2184 🔗

John you are like a broken down record with this one.

197155 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to John P, 5, #1002 of 2184 🔗

I respect yours sense of conviction on this, not denying you that.

Didn’t deny it yesterday either.

But all this incompetence? In positions of power? Doing exactly the same idiocy? Time after time? Regardless of what data, numbers, science is saying? Worldwide? That just happens to match what has been talked about by NGOs in there event past? And so on with the coincidences over and over and over.

How did these incompetents get into and infest these positions in such numbers?

Because the rest of us were too busy working and living our lives best we could to do it ourselves?

Wish I was as grossly incompetent as these people seem to be, I’d be a multi-millionaire by now if I was.

Johnson reports to HM the Queen, he is not ultimately “in charge” as she has the power to veto anything that he wants to do if she wanted to. The person who can control or stop a thing is the one is in charge. The PM is just her representative.

It is just “tradition” that she won’t (not law, simplistically put it started with Queen Victoria as she couldn’t be bothered with all the hassle of ruling a country) but at some point she will have to nail her colours to the mast and either stop this idiocy by saying “you lot of incompetents out, now” or do nothing and be complicit in the destruction of this country’s economy and civil society.

Either way will cause ruptions and probably end the monarchy as it exists now but sometimes traditions get done away.

The only way she will “save face and honour” is the first option.

197186 ▶▶▶▶ chaos, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #1004 of 2184 🔗

Telegraph has an article about the power couples in westminster.. truly frightening. No wonder we are in trouble. Too many morons, too many Etonian PPE morons running the country… journalists, conflicts of interest.. the kind of conflicts that would not have been acceptable just 40 years ago.

197123 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #1005 of 2184 🔗

There is such an abundance of information pointing to an agenda that is not intended to return any of the freedoms that have been taken. We have to act and convince at least a large minority of the population that their lives will otherwise belong to a vindictive totalitarian/fascist state.

197104 Nobby, replying to Nobby, 1, #1006 of 2184 🔗

Any chance Lockdown Sceptics could organise a debate between a few sceptics and some mask loving lockdown fanatics? I just want to understand what goes on in their heads.

197488 ▶▶ annie, replying to Nobby, #1007 of 2184 🔗

It’s only worth it if you like knocking your head against a brick wall.

197112 earthkiss, 8, #1008 of 2184 🔗

Andrew Gwynne on TalkRadio just said the government are overplaying the hospital stats…

ICU occupancy around the same as last year.

Stepping Hill 8 out of 12 ICU beds with covid
Manchester Royal 20 out of 200 ICU with covid

Far from overflowing.

197121 janeinthemindfield, replying to janeinthemindfield, 17, #1009 of 2184 🔗

I am so grateful for your replies! I would love to comment more, but my child is so demanding and challenging. I am keen to fight back as I think the whole thing is insane and have thought so since the very beginning of this madness. I would love to meet with some fellow sceptics, but dont know how to find you all. I am also a bit worried about discussing anything online.

My fears include terrifying fantasies of roadblocks, with the army going down the road with genocidal vaccines, possible peppered with rfid chips and those who refuse being carted off to quarantine camps for the rest of time, whilst the neighbours look down their noses judgementally…

Although part of me things these sound like the ravings of insanity, the other part thinks, well, in my wildest dreams I would not have believed that things could get as awful as they are now, so anything could happen!!

Its also obviously true that technology is incredibly sophisticated and god knows what they have in store?? I have not heard of any technology that has been invented that has not been used

Our human rights, free speech and the rule of law seem to have been swept away at speed and with barely any resistance. Genocidal maniacs are rife. History does not provide a source of comfort.

It has been important to me not to indulge in ‘conspiracy’ theories as I agree with lots of posters on here that focussing on weird unprovable speculation alienates people including me.

However, the things that are actually happening and the implications and consequences of them are terrifying in themselves and its quite clear that the vaccine will be all but mandatory and that they have the law already to quarantine people indefinitely.

I just want to protect my children and all our children from this nightmare. I want them to know what a beautiful world is possible… I have been crying over the last few days about the loss of our freedom and our beloved, creative, sophisticated, liberal civilisation that has just been crushed… I am picking up fistfuls of the fragments and trying to press them into the bleak hands of the future, hoping they will believe that a free world is not a fantasy, it was real…

Waa, I am having a very bad day today

197136 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to janeinthemindfield, 9, #1010 of 2184 🔗

our beloved, creative, sophisticated, liberal civilisation that has just been crushed

The last 7 months have exposed that this was a myth. The degradation of our culture and society to the point where 2020 was possible did not begin overnight. Much of this has been coming for decades.

197187 ▶▶▶ janeinthemindfield, replying to Richard O, 4, #1011 of 2184 🔗

Obviously our society was also deeply flawed in innumerable ways, but I feel sharply the sudden loss of so many aspects of our society that made life worth living. Even though, in my difficult situation, I struggled to access them, I was comforted by the thought that these cultural jewels would become accesible to my son as he got older.

There is a brilliant book by Ben Wilson called ‘What Price Liberty’ exploring the history of liberty in the UK and the serious erosion of liberties over the last couple of decades…

I have also been shocked by the erosion of any critical or creative thinking in education that I have become aware of through my son’s experience of education over the last 10 years. I have tried to supplement the gap myself which has been a very inadequate substitute!

What I am referring to that we have just lost are amongst may other things, the freedom to start all kinds of businesses, the incredible theatre, comedy, arts and music industry that has been crushed in short order. The freedom to travel, sports etc etc, so many aspects of society that I don’t even know about. I cannot begin to fathom the loss…

197220 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to janeinthemindfield, 8, #1012 of 2184 🔗

I did not expect the attack on every aspect of cultural life that enriches us to be as savage and destructive as it has been, but it makes perfect sense given the way we have been drifting. None of these changes are temporary either, which as yet the majority seem to be blissfully unaware of. The term “new normal” does exactly what it says on the tin.

197251 ▶▶▶▶▶ janeinthemindfield, replying to Richard O, 3, #1013 of 2184 🔗

I am fantasising about and hoping to find ways to salvage the remnants of cultural life by e.g. getting groups of musicians together in the shed in the garden, having wild, dressing up ‘sophisticated’ dinner parties, book clubs, debates, poetry readings on the patio etc. Pretend festivals etc. Not done any of it yet as the shed is yet to be constructed and all my neighbours are pro lockdown Guardian readers who think the IFR is 3% and terrified. I am so al!ienated! Probably all this would feel terribly constrained by a sense of subversiveness anyway… undermining creativity and freedom of thought.

Pitiful I know!

198062 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ richmond, replying to janeinthemindfield, 1, #1014 of 2184 🔗

What we imagine comes partly from dystopian novels and films, and they have to have a bad ending, otherwise they wouldn’t have the same impact. Reality may be different.

197147 ▶▶ CGL, replying to janeinthemindfield, 11, #1015 of 2184 🔗

Oh yes – crying for all that has been lost. You have expressed it to a tee. I hope you can find someone you can speak to face to face who understands you – that definitely helps. But we all definitely hear you on here. X

197661 ▶▶ watashi, replying to janeinthemindfield, 2, #1016 of 2184 🔗

You’ve articulated very beautifully what I too feel. Hope you have a better day tomorrow.

197122 nocheesegromit, replying to nocheesegromit, 2, #1017 of 2184 🔗

Reposting this from last night as it took a while to get through moderation.

I have written an email response to my MP in light of my (many) complaints about all the BS. She is a healthcare worker so I have laid it on pretty heavy.

Hello [poor parliamentary assistant],
Thank you for your reply. I have some comments I would like to express to Rachael in reply to this email if you could pass them on.

Firstly, I note that your email states, “it is now clear that we are seeing a steep rise in cases over the last few weeks.” As an MP and as former healthcare worker, Rachael will no doubt be aware that the ‘cases’ being referred to in the daily statistics are, in fact, the number of positive PCR tests. As Eurosurveillance states, these tests are unable to distinguish between infectious and non-infectious virus particles. Furthermore, Carl Henegan, Director at the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine at the University of Oxford, states that a positive PCR test does not equal having COVID-19 itself. Therefore, it is inaccurate to label these as COVID cases.

Putting aside these issues, though the number of positive tests have increased in the last few months, the number of tests being carried out daily is much higher than in March and April. As this BBC article states, ‘cases’ were estimated to be around 100,000 a day during this time, much higher than what we are currently seeing. Furthermore, the number of positive PCR tests we are seeing in mid-October fall well short of Chris Witty and Patrick Vallance’s projection of 50,000 ‘cases’ a day.

Secondly, on the topic of face masks, your email states, “on balance Rachael does feel that the economic cost of wearing a face mask on a temporary basis is outweighed by the preventative benefit to public health in terms of reduced transmission of the virus.” Again as a former healthcare worker, Rachael will no doubt be aware of the lack of evidence surrounding face masks in preventing and reducing transmission of viruses. For instance, in June 2020 the World Health Organisation stated that mask-wearing by healthy people was not supported by scientific evidence . Studies from the British Medical Journal and the Canadian Agency for Drugs and Technology have demonstrated that cloth masks may increase the risk of infection and that surgical masks are ineffective in protecting the wearer from infection respectively. This corresponds with a statement by Dr. Jenny Harries in March 2020 that face masks can increase the risk of infection.

Furthermore, the Government’s decision to make mask-wearing compulsory in many enclosed spaces has had an adverse effect on many people in the country who are unable to wear a face covering (like myself). For instance, a shocking survey by Disability Rights UK states that 55% respondents unable to wear face coverings feared being the victim of a hate crime . I am disappointed to see Labour – the party which has continually championed disabled people’s rights, in the face of much hardship since 2010 – not challenge a policy which discriminates against many disabled people, people with mental illnesses (like myself), those on the autistic spectrum, and many other groups.
Moreover, the email states that, “Nearly all European countries concur in this respect, and the threat to civil liberties of having to wear a face covering is, she feels, proportionate to the mitigation of risk to the general population of the spread of COVID-19.” I notice the word ‘nearly’ has been used, likely in response to Sweden and their lack of mask mandates since March. May I highlight how Sweden’s virus ‘curve’ is practically identical to that seen of other European countries, including the UK, Italy, France, and Spain, despite this and a lack of lockdowns?

Additionally, I am curious that Rachael seemingly thinks the risks of COVID-19 are high to the general population, a point which is returned to later in the email. The World Health Organisation has recently published research which states the median Infection Fatality Ratio for healthy under 70s is 0.05%. Also, as a former healthcare worker, Rachael will no doubt be aware of the almost 50,000 excess deaths in winter 2017/18 in England and Wales , higher than the UK death toll to date of those dying within 28 days of a positive COVID-19 test. May I ask, then, if Rachael thinks we should have worn face coverings and instigated other lockdown measures in 2017/18 and other winters with high death tolls considering the flu has a similar risk to the general population?

(To be continued…)

197364 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to nocheesegromit, 2, #1018 of 2184 🔗

Part 2:
Another point which attracted my attention is, “Although there was a “tailing-off” of cases of COVID-19 as a result of the original lockdown measures, the statistics do now appear to show that we are on the verge of a second wave of the pandemic”. Again, I would like to draw Rachael’s attention to Carl Henegan at the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine, who states that the evidence of such a second wave is non-existent .

Again, I would appreciate these points being passed on to Rachael for her consideration. Clearly, the Government’s response to the virus is grossly disproportionate in light of the evidence presented.

Yours faithfully,
nocheesegromit

197124 yohodi, replying to yohodi, 2, #1019 of 2184 🔗

This maybe something it maybe nothing ..who knows?..
Event 201 18th October 2019..The Peirre hotel- New York
About the Event 201 exerciseEvent 201 was a 3.5-hour pandemic tabletop exercise that simulated a series of dramatic, scenario-based facilitated discussions, confronting difficult, true-to-life dilemmas associated with response to a hypothetical, but scientifically plausible, pandemic. 15 global business, government, and public health leaders were players in the simulation exercise that highlighted unresolved real-world policy and economic issues that could be solved with sufficient political will, financial investment, and attention now and in the future.
The Johns Hopkins Centre for Health Security, World Economic Forum, and Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation jointly propose these recommendations .

The Event 201 scenario
Event 201 simulates an outbreak of a novel zoonotic coronavirus transmitted from bats to pigs to people that eventually becomes efficiently transmissible from person to person, leading to a severe pandemic. The pathogen and the disease it causes are modeled largely on SARS, but it is more transmissible in the community setting by people with mild symptoms.
The disease starts in pig farms in Brazil, quietly and slowly at first, but then it starts to spread more rapidly in healthcare settings. When it starts to spread efficiently from person to person in the low-income, densely packed neighborhoods of some of the megacities in South America, the epidemic explodes. It is first exported by air travel to Portugal, the United States, and China and then to many other countries. Although at first some countries are able to control it, it continues to spread and be reintroduced, and eventually no country can maintain control.

There is no possibility of a vaccine being available in the first year. There is a fictional antiviral drug that can help the sick but not significantly limit spread of the disease.
Since the whole human population is susceptible, during the initial months of the pandemic, the cumulative number of cases increases exponentially, doubling every week. And as the cases and deaths accumulate, the economic and societal consequences become increasingly severe.
The scenario ends at the 18-month point, with 65 million deaths. The pandemic is beginning to slow due to the decreasing number of susceptible people. The pandemic will continue at some rate until there is an effective vaccine or until 80-90 % of the global population has been exposed. From that point on, it is likely to be an endemic childhood disease.

197160 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to yohodi, 4, #1020 of 2184 🔗

Yeah, this has been discussed. The organizers have even felt the need to put out a statement “clarifying” that it wasn’t a prediction.

https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/news/center-news/2020-01-24-Statement-of-Clarification-Event201.html

Like you say, who knows what the truth is?

197126 Crazy Times, 1, #1021 of 2184 🔗

DoJ starting big anti trust case against Google.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/justice-department-to-file-long-awaited-antitrust-suit-against-google-11603195203

Interesting they announced it today after this was published late last night

https://twitter.com/Project_Veritas/status/1318331575852011520

197141 TyRade, replying to TyRade, 16, #1022 of 2184 🔗

what’s to save? Hold that clap back, if you can, for the NHS (PUBH). Share my pain, since the National Hoax Service won’t.
Developed what I Google-diagnosed was (even worse)prostate enlargement in last three days. Toilet every 30 minutes to pass a thimble, painfully, day and night. Ring my local GP surgery. Actually ring 20 times and was cut off three times. All to beg even to speak phonetically with a GP. (Face to face – Ie real – consultations abolished for COVIDballs.)
Surly receptionist says I’ve been ‘deducted’, struck off register of patients since Oct 1st. ‘Huh?’ says I (or words to that effect; being registered there over 30 years). And,Ms Surly continues, since I don’t exist for them I cannot e put through to a doctor.
15minutes later The Surly Blob (I remember her from pre bonkers times) confirms they had screwed up and thought I’d moved away. No apology. Why, since this cock up is clearly par for the NHS (PBUH) course? Bolbsurl then asks what my call is about. (Surly and prurient.) I start into my tale of multiple pi$$ing contests then just ask to discuss all this with a doctor…ya know, someone qualified.
Well, BLobbysurliness continues, the number I have for you is not the one you are using now, so which one should the doctor use? I suggested …the correct one, not the one her administrative genius had invented.
Finally the SurliBlobby gatekeeper deigns to offer me a call this afternoon. I thanked her for her understanding, efficiency and wit. Not.
Spirits lifted I sit awaiting said call. Instead I get a ‘do not reply’ text from a NHS (PBUH)robot telling me to follow a link to confirm the phone number I just spent 20 minutes establishing with Her SUrliBlobbiness. I have a humble Nokia and cannot follow the link.
I almost pi$$ed my pants laughing. But that’s where I came in!

197158 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to TyRade, 8, #1023 of 2184 🔗

National Hoax Service is a welcome addition to the list of new names for the primary institution of the state religious cult.

197248 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Richard O, 2, #1024 of 2184 🔗

The dancing seems to have been real.

197226 ▶▶ janeinthemindfield, replying to TyRade, 6, #1025 of 2184 🔗

My heart goes out to you. Please dont give up. I have had similar experiences with them over the summer for my disabled child, but got there in the end. Also, there may be alternative remedies that can help in the meantime even if they are not a cure, they might help with symptoms. Please keep trying to get through. Let us know how you get on.

197391 ▶▶ davews, replying to TyRade, 4, #1026 of 2184 🔗

Keep at it TyRade. When I was diagnosed with your issues four years ago it was ‘urgent’ with a whole nightmare of appointments in the 3 weeks to diagnosis. You should not be kept waiting. If it is a serious case of urine retention that is an A&E job. Hope you get a satisfactory result.

197145 swedenborg, 7, #1027 of 2184 🔗

https://twitter.com/DontKneele/status/1318242617658888192/photo/1
 Interesting news report from Prague. Almost half of the hospitalized patients with C-19 are asymptomatic. They are elderly patients now without symptoms but no place outside hospital that would accept them. Bedblockers. Must be happening also in UK?

197146 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 8, #1028 of 2184 🔗

They talk about Tiers as if its normal and then call other people conspiracy theorists.

197193 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #1029 of 2184 🔗

Exactly. The government is currently engaged in a scheme so wacky (suppressing a virus) that it could’ve been cooked up in Willy Wonka’s factory.

197648 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Dan Clarke, #1030 of 2184 🔗

Indeed. They’re all complete nutters

197149 AnotherSceptic, replying to AnotherSceptic, 7, #1031 of 2184 🔗

Old Wanker!
Harassing people for “not wearing masks”

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/whats-on/shopping/man-speaks-out-after-kicking-4622311

Seriously, if you read the story, he appears to hassle women & children outside the shop, then goes on to say that it’s the young people who are not following the rules.

What gives this cunt the right to do that? I am seriously surprised that he hasn’t been knocked out before now.

197165 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to AnotherSceptic, 6, #1032 of 2184 🔗

Is it just me that finds it hilarious. In 7 months we have the pensioner gestapo harassing folk for not wearing a mask (something he would never have worn at any point in his life without severe mocking). I guess if I didn’t laugh i’d cry.

197151 DRW, replying to DRW, 5, #1033 of 2184 🔗

So that’s it then, English-wide tier 3 lockdown over half-term. Again more theatrics, if they were that worried why leave it until next week?

197154 ▶▶ Eddy, replying to DRW, 8, #1034 of 2184 🔗

Planned all along by the cult, I’m amazed anyone is surprised.

197168 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Eddy, #1035 of 2184 🔗

Ever since Pantsdown got the required policy: On/off LDs “until there’s a vaccine” because sAvInG lIvEs.

197191 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to DRW, 3, #1036 of 2184 🔗

This policy was already decided and publicly declared in an MIT article on 17th March:

https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/03/17/905264/coronavirus-pandemic-social-distancing-18-months/

We’ll adapt to and accept such measures, much as we’ve adapted to increasingly stringent airport security screenings in the wake of terrorist attacks. The intrusive surveillance will be considered a small price to pay for the basic freedom to be with other people.

197198 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Richard O, 5, #1037 of 2184 🔗

Yet this is all somehow incompetence.

197340 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Richard O, 1, #1038 of 2184 🔗

This is whe we have all this corona thearter because they want to make life so miserable that we will do anything they want. This is a powerful quote. This is so mendacious and EVIL beyond belief.

197173 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to DRW, 5, #1039 of 2184 🔗

Exactly. To be extended indefinitely with manipulated statistics of course.

197174 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to DRW, #1040 of 2184 🔗

Where have you seen that? From my understanding the press conference is about Manchester.

197183 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to nocheesegromit, 2, #1041 of 2184 🔗

Scotland, NI, Wales and RoI have already announced LD II, what makes you think Doris won’t given his track record?

197195 ▶▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to DRW, 1, #1042 of 2184 🔗

Oh it’s certainly not out of the question, but that’s not what he will be announcing tonight as far as I can tell.

197260 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to nocheesegromit, 2, #1043 of 2184 🔗

Well we’ll see but I’m not at all optimistic.

197188 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to DRW, 3, #1044 of 2184 🔗

Is the sombrero squashed yet?

197252 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #1045 of 2184 🔗

It deflated itself back in March/April. Now it’s a camel hump or now must just be beaten or something.

197272 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to DRW, 2, #1046 of 2184 🔗

It’s a gerbil’s todger

197162 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #1047 of 2184 🔗

Behave, little people of Wales, or we’ll take your toys away from you.

Welsh ministers say they cannot rule out imposing another firebreak lockdown early in 2021 if Covid-19 starts spreading quickly again at Christmas.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-54614002

197190 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #1048 of 2184 🔗

So they’ll be let out for what, a month?!

197171 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 18, #1049 of 2184 🔗

Went for a McDonalds breakfast this morning (yes I know, I know, but judge not lest ye be judged yourself)

All the staff were face nappied

The staff were insisting on face nappies for customers (refused) and track and trace (held up my old analog phone with no sim in it to the QR code and said ‘beep’)

Anyway watched the staff go about this nonsense with great zeal

It had not dawned on these morons that they were getting sacked Friday without any future pay or support

Don’t know, perhaps they are dull enough to think it’s only going to be two weeks

They were applying rules to avoid getting closed down, even though they were getting closed down anyway

Anyway, you can’t put an old head on young shoulders.

They will have to learn the hard way

197177 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Cecil B, 6, #1050 of 2184 🔗

They won’t be having any children.

197184 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Cecil B, 5, #1051 of 2184 🔗

I’ve always felt with Maccies staff that they need starting out with the basics. Start a little fire and hold their hand over it. “That is hot”. Right, next lesson – hand out in a bucket of ice. “That is cold”.

And build from there.

197234 ▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Tom Blackburn, 9, #1052 of 2184 🔗

At least they are working. I brought up my children not to sneer at people who work in fast food. At least they get up every day, put on the uniform and turn up every day to serve patronising arseholes with a smile!

197253 ▶▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 5, #1053 of 2184 🔗

I’m not sneering about the job that they do, I’m sneering at their stupidity and adherence to the cult

197269 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 2, #1054 of 2184 🔗

It was meant to be a light-hearted comment on my experiences of being served by people who can’t differentiate coke from fanta. But that is ruined now, well done.

197172 PAM, 1, #1055 of 2184 🔗

More madness from the malignant narcissistic lovers of power it seems to me. Of course, I could be wrong…..

197175 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 8, #1056 of 2184 🔗

Two things I’ve learned from this shitshow. I didn’t know I lipread. I never, ever, thought I could even begin to understand why a person would commit suicide. Not me, not yet, but Christ they have a lot to answer for. I yearn for them to reinstate capital punishment. It’s the only thing that might stop them doing it again.

197210 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to James Leary #KBF, -1, #1057 of 2184 🔗

You want ‘them’ to reinstate capital punishment, to stop ‘them’?

197176 flyingjohn, replying to flyingjohn, 11, #1058 of 2184 🔗

We are all skeptics here. The evidence that this is a scam and not about public health is becoming clear to more and more people daily. We all know that it is a scaremongering mind control operation to subdue us.

So, I want to ask everyone these questions. How are we going to stop it? How much longer are we going to roll over and allow this? What are we prepared to actually DO?

197197 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to flyingjohn, 4, #1059 of 2184 🔗

Yes. Good question.
Have we all taken off the masks? I have started not wearing the lanyard. If there were lots of us going unexplainedly bare-faced, it might make an impact in the public sphere. But it would depend on there being lots of us doing it all at once.

197201 ▶▶▶ earthkiss, replying to Alethea, 1, #1060 of 2184 🔗

This is my point ^

197634 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Alethea, 1, #1061 of 2184 🔗

I never put one on.

197199 ▶▶ earthkiss, replying to flyingjohn, 2, #1062 of 2184 🔗

I would be happy to contribute an answer to that if there was freedom of speech, but I suspect this site is being monitored now and any excuse related to terrorism would be used to shut it down.

197214 ▶▶ earthkiss, replying to flyingjohn, 15, #1063 of 2184 🔗

Today I plan on going out in full Hazmat gear…

Industrial face mask.
Decorating suit.
Wellington Boots.
Welding Gloves.
Any other paraphernalia I can think of to supplement the ridiculous image.

Then to the embarrassement of my partner, phone in filming position, shouting a people that they are not doing enough to protect me!

197227 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to earthkiss, 3, #1064 of 2184 🔗

Let us know the results!

197243 ▶▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to earthkiss, 2, #1065 of 2184 🔗

Haha brilliant 🤣 post some video 😁

197320 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to earthkiss, 6, #1066 of 2184 🔗

please do this! Please put the film up somewhere. I was wanting to do this for ages. How about making a little special trolley with a large garden pump sprayer with a “Cillit Bang” label on it. You can then spray everything to make sure it’s safe.

197638 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to earthkiss, 1, #1067 of 2184 🔗

hilarious. let us know how you get on!

197222 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to flyingjohn, 6, #1068 of 2184 🔗

Do you think nobody had asked or answered this question in 7 months? There are plenty of people doing small things from not masking to defying lockdown. You need to face reality: we may all be sceptics here but the vast majority are either benefiting from the government policy in some way or totally in thrall to the so called experts and scared to death.

Basically if there was anything more we could do I’m sure someone would have suggested it by now and we’d be doing it.

So indulge me, what are you doing to stop it and what do you propose to do to put us into a majority position because until we are, this polling obsessed shower ain’t listening.

197338 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 3, #1069 of 2184 🔗

I think there is a lot more we could do if we could link up into small teams each of which focuses on one particular aspect. I find that most of my time just gets frittered away but with a small focuses team, and especially if someone were collating those teams, I could do far better.

197246 ▶▶ calchas, replying to flyingjohn, 3, #1070 of 2184 🔗

Meetups – see the forum – is perhaps the start.

Within the law of course.

197185 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 6, #1071 of 2184 🔗

This SAGE thing, boohooing about the devastating effects of lockdown and claiming the govt didn’t listen to their warnings… what???? How do they get away with this?? THEY WANT US TO LOCK DOWN YET AGAIN!

197235 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1072 of 2184 🔗

It must be fun for them to know that there will be no repercussions for such jaw-dropping duplicity. Laughing at the dumb population for swallowing it deeper and deeper, every day.

197192 p02099003, 1, #1073 of 2184 🔗

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRu6Mgb49Uk further analysis from Ivor Cummins, especially since the Republic of Ireland are going into a 6 week lockdown in the next few days.

197194 flyingjohn, replying to flyingjohn, 17, #1074 of 2184 🔗

I have a very simple solution to this madness.

The public sector and the private sector must be treated in exactly the same way. If there is another national lockdown, everyone, including the whole public sector must be confined at home.

Then, either, the salaries of all public sector workers (including all politicians) to be reduced by 40%, or, all private sector wages to be paid by government at 100%. In this way, we would all be in this together, right?

If this was official policy, there would never be another lockdown.

197204 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to flyingjohn, 5, #1075 of 2184 🔗

I’d also stick in “If you start a war, or are pro-war, then you have to serve on the front line of that conflict until it is over”

197665 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to captainbeefheart, 1, #1076 of 2184 🔗

The government declared war on the public last March. Most of the population are just too zombified to notice. This is not about a virus, but is all about control, vaccines and massive depopulation.

197209 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to flyingjohn, 5, #1077 of 2184 🔗

Completely agree, the public sector and de facto state companies feel little pain from lockdown and don’t have to worry about their pensions. Plus MP’s who are often millionaires get to pick up distressed assets cheaply – there should be restrictions on MP’s purchasing distressed assets due to the actions they have taken.

197259 ▶▶ Al Pipp, replying to flyingjohn, 1, #1078 of 2184 🔗

Well said! We have too many public sector funded employees and pensioners.

Another solution is the razed earth one = that a hard lock down will result in mass redundancies including public sectot

197273 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Al Pipp, 3, #1079 of 2184 🔗

Sounds like 77th Brigade sowing division.

197266 ▶▶ RickH, replying to flyingjohn, 3, #1080 of 2184 🔗

A few here falling straight into the government trap of divisive resentfulness.

Stupid.

197296 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to RickH, 1, #1081 of 2184 🔗

Agree that the Establishment loves a divided population, hence I am very suspicious of the Church cross incident at the weekend. Also there is a large BLM protest in central London today policed by a couple of unmasked community support officers (Khans work no doubt) – no Territorial Support Group for them.

But why do those in the public sector never seem to care when ‘non essential’ jobs (according to the civil service) are axed.

197299 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to flyingjohn, 3, #1082 of 2184 🔗

That should have been in place from the outset, starting with teachers. Any public sector employee refusing to go back to work without a legitimate health reason should have been sacked, as Charlie Mullins suggested for his workforce. When it comes to paying for this mess, all public sector pensions that pay out above the average national wage need to be capped, and the surplus used to offset some of the national debt.

197196 Dan Clarke, 5, #1083 of 2184 🔗

https://worlddoctorsalliance.com First Do No Harm, yet they are harming people every day.

197200 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #1084 of 2184 🔗

the evil of lockdown must end

Pro Lockdown? WAKE UP! Selfish & Ignorant…
5 reasons not to go into lockdown. 2 heartbreaking stories & 3 reality checks…

Alex Belfield – THE VOICE OF REASON

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExbzvAlzyzY

197263 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #1085 of 2184 🔗

Video now removed for some reason

197290 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Darryl, #1086 of 2184 🔗

He does that sometimes

197339 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Darryl, 2, #1087 of 2184 🔗

Jesus theres a pandemic of disappearing YT videos. Hmmmm.

197205 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 7, #1088 of 2184 🔗

Just heard what Chris Bryant did on the Dan Wooton show yesterday. What a complete and utter bastard. He’s moved up several rungs on ‘ze liszt’.

https://youtu.be/to8SzKdMtiE

197224 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to James Leary #KBF, 13, #1089 of 2184 🔗

He’s shown himself up to be an ignorant, very unpleasant man.

197241 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Telpin, 6, #1090 of 2184 🔗

How did a London property speculator pass himself off as a socialist and get elected for the Rhondda?

197316 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to James Leary #KBF, 3, #1091 of 2184 🔗

I listened to that and was amazed. Eminent scientists are described as “crackpots” and the presenter called a “nutcase” and “dangerous” for daring to have a different point of view. Bryant is a complete fuckwit.

197215 Sylvie, replying to Sylvie, 4, #1092 of 2184 🔗

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000nl7r
Just heard Dame Helena Morrissey on BBC World at One, at 27 minutes in. Thought I was listening to a rather more media practised Sunetra Gupta for a minute!
HM is a Conservative member of the House of Lords and sounded a valuable note of scepticism. I was surprised to hear it on BBC, interviewer let her have her say. Could be a useful voice of influence.

197280 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sylvie, #1093 of 2184 🔗

Check her out on Twitter, she has been a sceptic for a while now.

197310 ▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #1094 of 2184 🔗

Thanks, will do (I don’t do Twitter myself). She’s quite a phenomenon – 9 children and £1M bonuses from her job! Husband sounds a pearl beyond price.

197216 Awkward Git, 23, #1095 of 2184 🔗

Having fun annoying idiots on the Daily Fail article about the guy on the Easyjet flight.

For some reason got lots of thumbs down for putting on the BMA quote about there being no evidence that masks don’t work.

One person even says all the evidence they need is that it stops my breath reaching them so it’s obvious they work.

For some reason they won’t answer what is causing all the bacterial lung infections, coughs, colds and flu though or answer how does breathing in your won bacteria laden lowered oxygen CO2 enriched breath keep you healthy?

All good fun.

Trolls and 77th out in force in the comments.

197219 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 18, #1096 of 2184 🔗

Interesting conversation with the 2 assistants at our library: when I called at the allotted time to collect the DVD, they told me that the library now stocks exemption lanyards.

They were very interested in my experiences to date: had I suffered any abuse? No, I’ve been fortunate so far and displaying the badge sees off any would be aggressors.

The lady who served me told me that she can no longer tolerate masks for any length of time,and has now resorted to wearing the plastic space helmet,which allows air to circulate more effectively.

(Since the visors allow for this, it begs the question-what is the point?)

I have great sympathy for these folk;when I suggested that they should wear lanyards and stage a protest they said it wouldn’t work for them.

My guess is that local councils have enforced the gagging rules so effectively,aided by the spectre of mass unemployment, that most staff feel that that they have no option but to comply.

They both looked resigned but pleased to be in relatively secure employment.

This will be a very hard nut to crack: the sympathy and understanding are there, but worries about employment and income are constraining many would be allies.

Propaganda has shown how effectively it controls people’s lives.

197225 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to wendyk, 8, #1097 of 2184 🔗

I think you’re right about councils and gagging orders which is similar to the NHS hence why doctors and nurses and afraid to speak out.

However council workers should not be complacent. If they think they’re secure, wait until 2021-2 as redundancy will catch up with them

197232 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #1098 of 2184 🔗

Quite right Bart; the storm clouds are gathering.

197268 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to wendyk, 5, #1099 of 2184 🔗

The civil service, councils and public sector bodies always have a delayed reaction.

197250 ▶▶ RickH, replying to wendyk, 6, #1100 of 2184 🔗

what is the point?”

… purely subservience/compliance markers. Proof positive.

197228 nickbowes, replying to nickbowes, 5, #1101 of 2184 🔗

Best to avoid the Fat Clown and the Two Ronnie`s of Doom if i want to enjoy a good nights sleep tonight. Will catch up on it all here tomorrow – but the scumbags are coming out a week earlier than usual and that can only be more bad and stressful news.

197277 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to nickbowes, 3, #1102 of 2184 🔗

Oh crumbs, are Gloomy and Gloomier going to be there too?
I’m hibernating till midnight.

197229 Thomas_E, replying to Thomas_E, 1, #1103 of 2184 🔗

Another great one. Starts Grimm but ends up on hopeful note:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?edufilter=NULL&v=lKCTkLJbtT4

197335 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Thomas_E, 4, #1104 of 2184 🔗

As dark as things may seem, I believe that we’ve been given a gift – those of us who can see at least. It’s an ability to see the truth, and there has never been a greater privilege to be on the side of all that is good, righteous and beautiful in this life, all that is meaningful. We get the opportunity to stand against the darkest, most powerful, insidious, Satanic and psychotic evil that humanity has ever faced.

197471 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Richard O, 2, #1105 of 2184 🔗

That is noble. And true.

Evil must be resisted. And don’t forget that its final victory is only assured if the good despair.

197233 tonyspurs, replying to tonyspurs, 4, #1106 of 2184 🔗

Watch this and not feel angry and sad ,every lockdown zealot should be forced to watch this video there needs to be a prison sentence for those forcing this cruelty
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExbzvAlzyzY

197245 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to tonyspurs, 1, #1107 of 2184 🔗

Good video. Agree, but they just don’t care, particularly those in the media and at the top of society. Completely criminal what they are doing – sadistic.

197255 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to tonyspurs, 3, #1108 of 2184 🔗

Video seem to have been removed now so must have upset someone.

197333 ▶▶ CGL, replying to tonyspurs, 1, #1109 of 2184 🔗

Removed

197410 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to tonyspurs, #1110 of 2184 🔗

What was it ?

197240 Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 18, #1111 of 2184 🔗

Well thanks to an incredibly small ‘recovery’, I am due to return to my ‘pre covid dark age’ line of work next month.

I have handed my notice in at the warehouse where I’ve had a temp job for the last 7 months, and am very much looking forward to getting back to doing a job that I love. There is no long term certainty at all, but my company says it does not intend to make redundancies in my department in the short term.

If Johnson announces a ‘circuit breaker’ or ‘firebreak’ or whatever infantile name he wants to give it this evening then I’m almost certainly royally screwed. My firm will no doubt start to seriously consider imminent redundancies in the UK and I’ll have no temp job to go to! Excellent timing, cheers Bozo.

197274 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 10, #1112 of 2184 🔗

If Johnson announces a ‘circuit breaker’ or ‘firebreak’ or whatever infantile name he wants to give it this evening then I’m almost certainly royally screwed. My firm will no doubt start to seriously consider imminent redundancies in the UK and I’ll have no temp job to go to! Excellent timing, cheers Bozo.

Agree. This will accelerate compulsory redundancies in my workplace, if they’re not planning it already.

197247 mattghg, replying to mattghg, 8, #1113 of 2184 🔗

https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1317875526997102594

A lead investigator on the Danish mask study – the ONLY (as far as I know) randomized trial to see if masks protect from #COVID – was asked when it would be published.

His answer: “as soon as a journal is brave enough.”

If you think that means the study shows masks work…

197249 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to mattghg, 6, #1114 of 2184 🔗

Yep, I think the study confirms they don’t work.

197315 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to mattghg, 1, #1115 of 2184 🔗

He should try the New York Post, they seem to have cojones. Though maybe they’re a bit busy till 4th November.

197319 ▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to thinkaboutit, #1116 of 2184 🔗

It has to be an academic journal. Peer review and all that.

197466 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to mattghg, #1117 of 2184 🔗

I wonder if an abstract could be posted here…?

197592 ▶▶▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to annie, #1118 of 2184 🔗

It’s been suggested but not all the authors are on board with the idea.

I have confirmed the authenticity of the email with him directly. I asked about an unreviewed preprint since it’s been delayed so long, but he says not everyone on the team agrees that makes sense.

https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1317875939238420480

197254 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 18, #1119 of 2184 🔗

Jesus wept.

Had the misfortune of seeing a post from someone on Arsebook – going to the theatre fully muzzled up and on both sides of seats with perspex screens.

WTF???

I had to resist the urge to tell her to boycott in order to stop this nonsense. The likes of theatres and shops will keep pushing on for this sort of abomination because there are enough people who are desperate for their theatre and shopping fix to put up with this!

197284 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #1120 of 2184 🔗

Yes – this is the danger in a lot of fields.

In order to survive, there is compliance with all sorts of absurdity.

The aim is clear – an old, old trick for getting subservience : demand the insane and then retreat just a bit. That’s the way ‘new normals’ get embedded.

197288 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to RickH, 2, #1121 of 2184 🔗

Yes. boycott all such places.

197371 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to RickH, #1122 of 2184 🔗

Or even over-egging the pudding and going above and beyond the regulations which don’t make sense but they take their insanity to another level.

197350 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #1123 of 2184 🔗

“Going to the theatre” indeed!

197531 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Sam Vimes, #1124 of 2184 🔗

sounds like a right pantomime

197257 Silke David, 6, #1125 of 2184 🔗

Scott Atlas being interviewed for UnHerd.
Nice to hear someone state the bollocks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpn3JxXqnp4

197258 maggie may, replying to maggie may, 4, #1126 of 2184 🔗

Interesting comments below about the travel and the airlines. I read a paper a while back about what being carbon neutral by 2050 actually meant in the light of what we know about technology today.

One point they made was that given the development of electric planes at present, there would hardly be an airline industry in 2050. In fact we should by 2030 have closed down all the airports in the country other than London, Gatwick and Edinburgh. So this is a good start.

197300 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to maggie may, 5, #1127 of 2184 🔗

Electric planes don’t work. It’s the power to weight issue. Impossible to overcome right now. Very short flight times or huge batteries and no space inside. That’s the trade of.

197390 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Two-Six, #1128 of 2184 🔗

Mentour Pilot has an interesting video about the Celera 500L .

It’s a redesign of the standard aircraft shape that makes it much more efficient than a standard plane (reduced drag, basically).

Currently it uses a diesel engine that supposedly returns 18-25 mpg (US). They are looking into all-electric and hybrid power plants.

Granted, it’s only a tiny little thing with a six-passenger capacity, but the low cost of running it might shift the economics of air travel a little. (Apparently it’s not possible to scale it up much larger without throwing away the improvements in laminar flow.)

198283 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Mabel Cow, #1129 of 2184 🔗

I really like Mentor pilot i used to watch all his videos. He is now fairly perplexed and up poop creek without a paddle isn’t he? I stopped watching him soon after the covid meltdown.

I know you can get aircraft that look like gliders that are very efficient but the power to weight issue is still very important and cannot be overcome as yet. Perhaps hydrogen fuel cells generating electricity might work but the power levels needed to make a plane work as they do are huge. Only fuel oil has the energy density to do provide this.

197262 janeinthemindfield, replying to janeinthemindfield, 14, #1130 of 2184 🔗

Posted this in a reply to Richard O, but wonder if anyone else wants to do this kind of stuff?

I am fantasising about and hoping to find ways to salvage the remnants of cultural life by e.g. getting groups of musicians together in the shed in the garden, having wild, dressing up ‘sophisticated’ dinner parties, book clubs, debates, poetry readings on the patio etc. Pretend festivals etc. Not done any of it yet as the shed is yet to be constructed and all my neighbours are pro lockdown Guardian readers who think the IFR is 3% and terrified. I am so al!ienated! Probably all this would feel terribly constrained by a sense of subversiveness anyway… undermining creativity and freedom of thought.

Pitiful I know!

197298 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to janeinthemindfield, 9, #1131 of 2184 🔗

This is the only way we’re going to get out of this – i.e. by building little networks from the bottom up with our neighbours and local communities – whether it’s music, gardening, books, exchange of goods and services, anything that brings people together in an ad-hoc way without having to ask permission from our masters. It’s the only chance we have to retain our humanity and we need to start now. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

198111 ▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to godowneasy, #1132 of 2184 🔗

I agree we should reject their system wholeheartedly .What is the point of going to pubs and restaurants ,galleries ,cinema if we are going to be treated like children .We need to withdraw are money from them so that if they want to survive it’s up to them to put pressure on the government . Bringing back and building a community of resistance is the answer and was the answer even before covid .

197305 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to janeinthemindfield, 6, #1133 of 2184 🔗

I was thinking starting a band called “The Brainwashed Slaves”.

You’d never know who any of the musicians were because they’d be wearing masks all the time and would be dressed in full-on PPE equipment.

This would start as a cover band (covering songs like “Don’t Stand So Close To Me” by the Police etc) but would move on re-enforce full on government propoganda.

We might even get onto Eurovision…

197321 ▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to captainbeefheart, 6, #1134 of 2184 🔗

I love this I think subversively mocking the rules can be the best weapon.

197312 ▶▶ Stephanos, replying to janeinthemindfield, 2, #1135 of 2184 🔗

This may not be your ‘thing’ but I run four Greek and Latin groups over zoom. 1 Advanced Greek, 1 Intermediate Greek, 1 Beginners’ Greek, 1 Advanced Latin.
Everyone has now got used to the technology and although it is at a distance, it does work. If anybody else wants to get involved with this please fill in the enquiry form at http://www.eroumen.co.uk .
We used to meet in church halls and places like that but that is no longer practicable due to obsessive cleaning, anti-social distancing and face-nappies.

197337 ▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Stephanos, #1136 of 2184 🔗

I’ve sent a message through the website, would love to have a crack at Greek!

197415 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Stephanos, #1137 of 2184 🔗

If there’s a beginner’s Latin, that’s something I’m interested in.

197451 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #1138 of 2184 🔗

Amo, amas, amat – I don’t suppose they start with that nowadays! 🙂

197512 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Edward, #1139 of 2184 🔗

I have no idea. I would have wanted to learn Latin or any European language but was forced to learn Chinese – and completely useless too as it was all rote learning and nothing practical.

197459 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Stephanos, 1, #1140 of 2184 🔗

Do you have room in a Greek group for somebody who followed the JACT course a long time ago and is willing to work hard to catch up?
I’ve just dropped out of my Weksh class because I can see no further point in learning the language of a nation of crawling zombies. (Welsh-speaking LS heroes excepted!).

197324 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to janeinthemindfield, #1141 of 2184 🔗

Well done, Jane, I totally agree. It’s a combination of fighting back – and of retaining/growing the things in life that really matter & our humanity

197523 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to janeinthemindfield, #1142 of 2184 🔗

as long as it’s described as a working lunch you should be OK

197629 ▶▶ watashi, replying to janeinthemindfield, #1143 of 2184 🔗

sounds great, if you’re anywhere near me, I’d be up for it.

197271 PastImperfect, 15, #1144 of 2184 🔗

Massive turnout needed this Saturday in “Central London” for the “We Have the power event”
Organised by Save our Rights UK

Sign up with UniteForFreedom.uk

Supported by
Stop New Normal – Save Lives
Event202
StandUpX
Earth United

197278 Thomas_E, replying to Thomas_E, 63, #1145 of 2184 🔗

Just spoke to a friend of mine. He has 3 children aged 6,4 and 1.5. His wife was always on the anxious side and was suffering with post natal depression after the birth of their youngest girl. She has been getting more and more paranoid since March and anxious about the Covid situation and was glued to MSSM media day and night. She than started to clean the house on daily basis, wiping everything manically. This slowly escalated to a point where she would use 5 bottles of bleach a day ,basically trying to disinfect the house about 9 hours every day. She has been hospitalized after she tried to bathe their youngest in bleach , just to be sure. Luckily her mother in law saw this and tried stopping her. She than attacked her with a kitchen knife while screaming she wants to make sure her children are safe. She has been hospitalized for the last 3 months and she is getting worse and worse every day. Doctors estimate a long term isolation for her own protection . My friend is now by himself with 3 young children and completely lost. He blames the MSM for this as they scared her wife literally to the point where should would rather harm her own children than risk them getting the virus. Damm the, damm then lot of them. Not sure if it exists,but I hope they all bun in hell to what they did to this country and to my friend. I can’t cry no more about this, sadness has been replaced by rage and anger.

197285 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Thomas_E, 13, #1146 of 2184 🔗

I am so sorry to hear that. it is awful.

197291 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Thomas_E, 29, #1147 of 2184 🔗

Our cousin got sectioned back in June. She had a good job that kept her on the level then she went crackers during lockdown. She was in a psychiatric hospitla for 3 months. Thankfully she is OK now.

Yes what they have done to people is incredible, the damage is monstrous.

197292 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to Thomas_E, 13, #1148 of 2184 🔗

Yes the MSM are just as bad as the bastards in government for propelling fear beyond control!

197306 ▶▶▶ steph, replying to Janice21, 10, #1149 of 2184 🔗

Government are totally to blame as the power lies with them. However, MSM really pushed a weak executive into overreacting at the start and they lapped it all up. Good for clicks, and no cost to them in their lovely homes on full pay.

197356 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to steph, 8, #1150 of 2184 🔗

In a real pandemic, governments and the media try to calm people.

197357 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Jay Berger, 8, #1151 of 2184 🔗

Exactly, you wouldn’t need a marketing campaign. People would react without stupid diktats and slogans.

197395 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jo, replying to Jay Berger, 8, #1152 of 2184 🔗

If it had been Ebola, there would have been no need for a lockdown because we would have stayed at home. If, after 7 months, there had been an unusually serious disease, there would have been no need for a lockdown because we would have stayed at home.

197297 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Thomas_E, 15, #1153 of 2184 🔗

It may be an extreme and gut-wrenching example – but then think of all the lesser manifestations of anxiety and depression and other mental issues that are occurring at the moment.

It’s possibly the major cost of all this – beyond even the obvious health issues. Will we ever know the full extent of the effects of the Goebbels and Mengele Brigade’s actions?

197307 ▶▶ janeinthemindfield, replying to Thomas_E, 9, #1154 of 2184 🔗

This is so awful. Does your friend have any help? His poor wife. He must be going out of his mind and the poor kids. My heart goes out to him and his family. We must all do everything we can to help each other in this awful situation. God. Words fail me.

197313 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Thomas_E, 18, #1155 of 2184 🔗

This is so sad, and I feel awfully sorry for your friend.

Tragically, I think this type of thing is much more widespread that even we think. I recently travelled on Eurostar from Paris to London and some guy across the aisle literally spent the entire 2.5 hour journey scrubbing everything around him with wipes and sprays. It was focussed, insessant and relentless. I felt a bit guilty as we stayed unmuzzled by making a bottle of wine last the journey. Another one was wearing a respirator, totally frozen in fear clenching his knuckles together. When someone spoke to him because she was double-booked into the same seat, he was in absolute terror and had to instigate a full decontamination afterwards. He wore a respirator mask religiously and actually passed a straw through the bottom of it to allow himself to drink bottled water, without removing the muzzle.

Politicians and the media need to pay heavily for this grevious assault. I do not resent the victims of this, they were simply more susceptible to the propaganda. They will need our support for years to come.

197354 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to TheBluePill, 6, #1156 of 2184 🔗

Trauma induced mass psychosis

197380 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to TheBluePill, 7, #1157 of 2184 🔗

Millions of people are now full-on sufferers of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, and will be for the rest of their lives.

197326 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Thomas_E, 4, #1158 of 2184 🔗

Shocking and criminal. Those responsible must be held to account.

Can anyone help him to look after his children?

https://www.mind.org.uk/

Mind might be able to offer some support.

197369 ▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to wendyk, 11, #1159 of 2184 🔗

Hello, luckily his parent are not to old and they have moved in and are helping him going thought this. He also has his sister now living with them (guess it helps that you live in S London about 2 miles away from them) She is an NHS practitioner and from what she told me she is a quiet sceptic (NHS has ZERO tolerance foe any other opinions) and thinks this whole thing is bollocks. He is struggling but has support but how many thousands of other are out there alone, no job, no prospects, no hope that just decide to end it all. My neighbor works for the Met ( anti terror department or something) and he said that suicides just in London have gone up almost 100% in the last couple of months. BTW, I know it’s bollocks but according to him most of the MET thinks this is all bullshit.

197406 ▶▶ annie, replying to Thomas_E, 6, #1160 of 2184 🔗

Don’t worry, hell reserves its hottest fires for these fiends.

197426 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Thomas_E, 3, #1161 of 2184 🔗

Very sad to hear this and it makes me even angrier at the likes of the government, MSM and lockdownistas.

They have blood in their hands.

197283 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 6, #1162 of 2184 🔗

There is a false belief that T&T is an essential part of driving prevalance down.

Test and Trace will not help bring the prevalance of a virus down once it’s so widespread that you can’t T&T fast enough.

Test and Trace can help keep the prevalance at a low level if you are lucky enough to be in that position. It is only useful as a control measure in that regard.

197289 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #1163 of 2184 🔗

Yes – it’s another one to put on the rubbish heap of ‘useless myths’.

That’s why it was never recommended in any strategy document, except in very specific, limited circumstances.

197295 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to RickH, 2, #1164 of 2184 🔗

It just irks me when I see “experts”, and non experts, claiming that T&T is essential because some countries have an effective system. They are countries where the virus never really took hold so T&T was effective in helping them maintain a low level of prevalance.

197352 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Nobody2020, #1165 of 2184 🔗

As Peter Hitchens likes to put it, the virus is frightened of being tested for

197308 ▶▶ DRW, replying to PastImperfect, 1, #1167 of 2184 🔗

If we have an actual second wave, then why do they need to be deliberately infected?

197598 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to PastImperfect, #1168 of 2184 🔗

Do you think the pharma companies would do human challenge trials for an Ebola vaccine? Just asking. Not quite as much at stake when infecting people with a “deadly” virus that 99.6% survive without much intervention. Having said that, these coronavirus vaccines have never made it to market precisely because they cause the very cytokine storm that kills people. So these human challenge trials could prove very interesting.

197287 Sylvie, replying to Sylvie, 13, #1169 of 2184 🔗

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000nl7r
Dame Helena Morrissey, successful fund manager, in H o Lords, interviewed at 27 minutes. Asked ‘surely the economy is protected if virus under control, which can only be done by tight restrictions?’ She answers ‘ I don’t know what they’re talking about, how can you say it’s protected if you’re shutting down great swathes of it’! Then goes full Great Barrington Declaration, cure worse than disease, can’t keep repeating same solution and expecting it to work , ‘thats the definition of insanity’, facts, figures, keeps asking for evidence behind SAGE and Johnson’s decisions – thought I was listening to Sunetra Gupta at first.

197479 ▶▶ ChrisW, replying to Sylvie, #1170 of 2184 🔗

Helena Morrissey is great. She was on James Delingpole’s podcast a few months ago.

197293 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 10, #1171 of 2184 🔗

They clearly didn’t like the preprint mask study from Saturday’s update:

Stop Press : A new preprint study by Dr Colleen Huber and colleagues reviews the evidence on masks and finds “mask use is not correlated with lower death rates nor with lower positive PCR tests” and that due to risks of contamination the “use of face masks will contribute to far more morbidity and mortality than has occurred due to COVID-19”. Worth a read .

Vamooshed.

197361 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1172 of 2184 🔗

Does anyone have a working backup link?

197370 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Tee Ell, 1, #1173 of 2184 🔗

Trying to find one but no joy yet. Gone from wayback too.

197392 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 3, #1174 of 2184 🔗

I have emailed the author and asked if she would send me copies of both the papers.

197855 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Sarigan, #1175 of 2184 🔗

Nice work!

197673 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Sarigan, #1176 of 2184 🔗
197679 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, #1177 of 2184 🔗

Just request date full text, easy enough to do.

used lockdownsceptics.org as the organisation an I’m an independent researcher.

197294 Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #1178 of 2184 🔗

Sonia Poulton and David Scott in conversation about what’s going on in Svotland. Prohibition, Sridhar and much more besides. Can be listened to as radio while you work.

https://brandnewtube.com/watch/the-raw-report-03-replay_cNFM31baiGx1RwS.html

The video titles are lengthy and unneeded in my grumpy opinion – easy to skip.

197413 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Basics, #1179 of 2184 🔗

Meanwhile home brew companies are experiencing record sales and garages all over the country are being quietly refurbished. 🤔

197301 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 18, #1180 of 2184 🔗

The Year of Disguises by Roger Koops

Roger W. Koops holds a Ph.D. in Chemistry from the University of California, Riverside as well as Master and Bachelor degrees from Western Washington University. He worked in the Pharmaceutical and Biotechnology Industry for over 25 years.

https://www.aier.org/article/the-year-of-disguises/

Here are some important points to consider:

  1. People who have experienced this virus do NOT need to wear face coverings, period.
  2. In the open environment, no one should be wearing face coverings. This is the one place where we can get an assist from nature to help reduce the virus molecules. Considering that less than 5% of transmissions have been associated with open environments (and identifiable activities not random encounters), the risk is truly small.
  3. A face covering may be useful when visiting an at-risk elderly person or in a controlled health care setting such as a hospital or nursing home. But, I think that these should be dispensed by trained personnel and should be focused on using Surgical masks wherever possible. The protection is not so much from viruses but face coverings may be more effective in preventing the spread of bacteria and fungi.
  4. Children should not be wearing face coverings. We all need constant interaction with our environments and that is especially true for children. This is how their immune system develops. They are the lowest of the low risk groups. Let them be kids and let them develop their immune systems..
  5. The “Mask Mandate” idea is a truly ridiculous, knee-jerk reaction and needs to be withdrawn and thrown in the waste bin of disastrous policy, along with lockdowns and school closures. You can vote for a person without blindly supporting all of their proposals!
  6. There may be other health risks associated with continued use of face coverings. While this is anecdotal, I have many physician acquaintances and they are all reporting increases in conditions that may be associated with face coverings, such as facial skin infections, nose/throat and sinus infections, even anxiety conditions. An area of concern is the change in breathing patterns that can be directly associated with face coverings. I train regularly. The only time that I wear a face covering is to gain entrance to the public gymnasium where I train (because it is required). The mask is discarded immediately when I start training, as most other people also do. The staff members do not make a fuss because they understand the dangers of doing exertion with a face covering.
  7. We also do not know enough about the possible consequences of forcing whole populations to adopt face coverings for extended periods. There may be both health and social consequences that we cannot consider at this time. Humans have developed as creatures whereby we interact with our environment. Our whole upper respiratory tract has developed immense defensive systems because of that. I am worried personally about “unnatural selection.” This is when human actions force a direction of evolution that would not otherwise occur. Often, the result is not good. But that is a whole different subject that needs to be considered.
197311 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #1181 of 2184 🔗

Point 7 is something I had never considered before. We humans truly are idiotic beyond compare.

197323 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to JHuntz, 1, #1182 of 2184 🔗

Speak for yourself! 🙂

197376 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to JHuntz, 3, #1183 of 2184 🔗

Not this human, thank you very much. I’m still breathing.

197314 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Mr Dee, #1184 of 2184 🔗

That’s a brilliant article.

197423 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #1185 of 2184 🔗
197302 Humanity First, 3, #1186 of 2184 🔗

Totalitarian Control IS COMING!! 2020
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz5UcJ4pigU

197303 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 5, #1187 of 2184 🔗

This could be a clever line of attack:

Watch “Dr. Hilary Jones – “Good Morning Britain” – an expert you should pay attention to” on YouTube
Lure them in with their heroes and hit them with the truth

197328 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Sarigan, 7, #1188 of 2184 🔗

I’ve sent GMB this e-mail.

If he does attempt to answer it and anyone watches the show (I don’t) then please post what he says.

“I am assuming that Dr Hilary Jones is a member of the British Medical Association.

If he is it would be good if he can explain their stance on masks and face coverings in light of what they put in an e-mail to me on this subject.

The quote is:

“We appreciate that this is an area in which there is little high-quality empirical evidence. There is, for example, a lack of randomised control trials showing that mask wearing is effective (either indoors or outdoors).”

So if the BMA does not have any scientific evidnece to back-up their stance but is relying on “because we said so” who does?

The e-mail correspondence is available if he wants to read it.”

197437 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1189 of 2184 🔗

Interesting thing to note from seeing Jennie Harries there. Mrs C. mentioned to me the other day that we don’t see as much of her thesedays. Got me wondering if she’s kept out of the limelight because she refuses to agree ‘the new truth’. Others may know differently.

197510 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Ceriain, 2, #1190 of 2184 🔗

I was thinking the same about Harries the other day. Ever since they brought in masks she’s gone quiet – after telling us all plainly that they don’t work back in March.

She always struck me as the most sensible of the lot, although that’s not necessarily saying much.

197309 Darryl, replying to Darryl, 11, #1191 of 2184 🔗

Another big Black Lives Matter protest today. Mask free Community Support Officers seem to be on duty – what a surprise no Territorial Support Group treatment for them. Political policing continues in London. https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/10/20/exclusive-video-police-stand-and-watch-blm-protest-in-london-while-cracking-down-on-anti-lockdown-protests/

197345 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Darryl, 11, #1192 of 2184 🔗

Sigh.

If we could link masks to slavery then this whole thing would be finished tomorrow.

Governments the world over would bow to the woke agenda and call a halt on the spot.

197347 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Mabel Cow, 2, #1193 of 2184 🔗

THIS!!!

197363 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Mabel Cow, 1, #1194 of 2184 🔗

AMEN!!!

197367 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mabel Cow, 1, #1195 of 2184 🔗

.

197389 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to JohnB, 2, #1196 of 2184 🔗

Communists? Nope : Tories. Common or garden Tories.

197453 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to RickH, #1197 of 2184 🔗

I didn’t read the words, Rick. Mabel wanted a slavery/mask thing, that’s all.

Protesting too much ? 🙂

197580 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to JohnB, 1, #1198 of 2184 🔗

Yes, masks have already been linked to slavery and nobody seems to have taken notice besides us sceptics. As we well know, the zealots are expert cherry pickers.

197427 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Mabel Cow, #1199 of 2184 🔗

.

198080 ▶▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Nessimmersion, #1200 of 2184 🔗

With the caption .FACE MASKS THE NEW SLAVERY .Could be a good poster or sticker .

197318 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 8, #1201 of 2184 🔗

‘No sign of a second wave’ as ONS data shows normal level of deaths for the time of year
People who would normally be expected to die of flu or pneumonia may instead be dying from Covid-19

T here is no sign of a second wave, experts have said, as new Office for National Statistics (ONS) figures show deaths are just 1.5 per cent above the five-year average, and tracking on a normal trajectory for this time of year.

Although coronavirus deaths rose to 438 for the week ending October 9 – an increase of 36 per cent from the previous week when it was 321 – overall deaths rose just 143 above the five-year average.

There were also 19 fewer overall deaths than the same week last year.

Experts at Oxford University say it would have to get to 1,200 more deaths above the norm before it would usually be considered ‘excess’ above the expected variation in the data.

Researchers also found there would usually be around 1,600 weekly deaths from flu and pneumonia for the same week. Deaths from coronavirus, flu and pneumonia are currently running at 1,621, suggesting there is virtually no increase in expected respiratory deaths.

read on
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/20/second-wave-not-sight-ons-figures-show-deaths-just-15-per-cent/

197358 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 6, #1202 of 2184 🔗

Forget (sorry to keep saying this) the term ‘excess deaths’ – it’s a meaningless term. The only disagreement I have with the sterling CEBM is their continued usage of it.

So – lets look at the historical context as a baseline :

  1. In terms of the last five years, the current mortality levels are indistinguishable (for all practical purposes) from the general levels and general trends (given the lag in the publication of ONS data).
  2. An important additional factor is that we have seen historically low levels of mortality in the last ten years or so. Conclusion : current mortality is at historically low levels.
  3. If we take a wider timespan (27 years), current mortality is close to the minimum for the period.
  4. Cumulative mortality for the current year (i.e taking into account the spike in April) is trending below, and away from the maximum for the period.

In other words, cutting things short, assessing the wider picture, taking all things into consideration, and forgetting the lack of supporting evidence for measures taken:

What’s all this lockdown/circuit breaker bollocks all about? Because it certainly isn’t about any perceptible problem.

197460 ▶▶▶ jb12, replying to RickH, 1, #1203 of 2184 🔗

I think it still has its use, if only to show that this catastrophic virus has led to a year that is no worse than the last 5. However, most people just use it as shorthand for good, bad, or average.

197503 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #1204 of 2184 🔗

They’ve had to qualify it with a ‘no sign yet ‘ of course…

197325 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #1205 of 2184 🔗

So, who are you?

More propaganda. (US I think.)

197330 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Mr Dee, 12, #1206 of 2184 🔗

Seriously, where is this? So it’s normal to cover your face for no reason just because you’re told to! I don’t think so mate!

197349 ▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to Moomin, 1, #1207 of 2184 🔗

I believe that was in Canada somewhere, possibly Ontario

197569 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Eddie, 2, #1208 of 2184 🔗

Unfortunately, it wouldn’t surprise me if it was in Ontario. Trust that I would tear that down if I saw it anywhere public. Problem is, I don’t go many places any longer because of insanity like that. I’d lose my shit for sure!

197424 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Mr Dee, 4, #1209 of 2184 🔗

Oh yes – we dont f’ing care.
We’re so f’ing selfish. I swear I will punch anyone who ever says that to me.

197593 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Mr Dee, #1210 of 2184 🔗

All the statements in this poster apply to the picture on the top left….other than the one actually on the top left.

197329 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 13, #1211 of 2184 🔗

Just found out that a friend of mine who’s in the travel industry and has been on furlough since March, which ends at the end of the month, has been told to make ends meet he’ll have to sell his house or get help from family! Really feel for him, his job is not ‘transferable’ and he’s worked hard and for years to get to where he is/was. It’s all been pulled apart by this obsession with cruel lockdowns, I feel sick in the stomach just hearing it from his wife, so goodness knows how he must feel. Sadly there will be much more of this. A neighbour is furloughed, going Nov/Dec without pay with a promise of being back at work in the New Year, somehow I sadly doubt that. This situation is truly awful.

197362 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Moomin, 4, #1212 of 2184 🔗

Start sharpening those pitchforks

197375 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to stewart, 1, #1213 of 2184 🔗

Way ahead of you.

197442 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to stewart, 1, #1214 of 2184 🔗

Winter is coming.

197331 T. Prince, replying to T. Prince, 9, #1215 of 2184 🔗

‘No sign of a second wave’ as ONS data shows normal level of deaths for the time of year
People who would normally be expected to die of flu or pneumonia may instead be dying from Covid-19
There is no sign of a second wave, experts have said, as new Office for National Statistics (ONS) figures show deaths are just 1.5 per cent above the five-year average, and tracking on a normal trajectory for this time of year.
Although coronavirus deaths rose to 438 for the week ending October 9 – an increase of 36 per cent from the previous week when it was 321 – overall deaths rose just 143 above the five-year average.
There were also 19 fewer overall deaths than the same week last year.
Experts at Oxford University say it would have to get to 1,200 more deaths above the norm before it would usually be considered ‘excess’ above the expected variation in the data.
Researchers also found there would usually be around 1,600 weekly deaths from flu and pneumonia for the same week. Deaths from coronavirus, flu and pneumonia are currently running at 1,621, suggesting there is virtually no increase in expected respiratory death s.
read on
https://www.telegraph.co.uk

197449 ▶▶ jb12, replying to T. Prince, 2, #1216 of 2184 🔗

That should really be the end of that, but it won’t; we are far beyond statistics now, and into the realm of ‘government says so’.

197609 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to jb12, 1, #1217 of 2184 🔗

Time to say no. No one should wear a mask or take notice of the “rules” on scial gatherings. This all has to stop now.

197497 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to T. Prince, #1218 of 2184 🔗

Could you post the full link to this story please? It only redirects me to the main DT page and I can’t see it on there.

197500 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, #1219 of 2184 🔗

Just seen Sir Patrick’s posted it below!

197332 Hieronimusb, replying to Hieronimusb, 7, #1221 of 2184 🔗

Drakeford has welched on the Welsh. If I could, I would subject him to the Pembrokeshire Punishment: staked out for 8 hours naked over a barrel with the 13 rams in my paddock (they’re just about played in at this time of year).. suffice to say he wouldn’t be walking anytime soon and may, just possibly, never speak again. Hmm, think I’ll go for a walk myself and get some fresh air!

197334 ▶▶ dickyboy, replying to Hieronimusb, 3, #1222 of 2184 🔗

I suspect that he would rather enjoy the experience.

197344 ▶▶▶ Hieronimusb, replying to dickyboy, 1, #1223 of 2184 🔗

I’d be prepared to sit by him and tickle his feet and armpits with a feather – do you think that might push him over the edge?

197365 ▶▶ Steve Jones, replying to Hieronimusb, 1, #1224 of 2184 🔗

you are mixed up; that is the Flintshire punishment. The Pembrokeshire Punishment involves horses.

197443 ▶▶▶ Hieronimusb, replying to Steve Jones, 2, #1225 of 2184 🔗

Yes, you’re right, but I had to rein in my imagination.

197454 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Steve Jones, #1226 of 2184 🔗

😂 😂 😂

197366 ▶▶ annie, replying to Hieronimusb, 1, #1227 of 2184 🔗

Your suggested punishment sounds very mild to me.
I’m Prmbrikeshire too. I have a horse. I can easily borrow three more…

197393 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to annie, 1, #1228 of 2184 🔗

How about he meets the fate of Dafydd ap Gruffydd, brother of the Last (true) Prince of Wales:

“Dafydd was taken, under guard, to Shrewsbury, where he was later hung, drawn, and quartered. He was dragged through the streets of Shrewsbury attached to a horse’s tail then hanged alive, revived, then disembowelled and his entrails burned before him, his body cut into four quarters “for plotting the king’s death”.

197464 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #1229 of 2184 🔗

That’s sounds great! I’ve a couple of hundred people on my list that merit that type of punishment.

197440 ▶▶▶ Hieronimusb, replying to annie, 1, #1230 of 2184 🔗

I could use a thistle instead of the feather? I’m a pacifist really, but thinking seriously about converting..

197616 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Hieronimusb, #1231 of 2184 🔗

Why are you still thinking about it?

197342 T. Prince, replying to T. Prince, 4, #1232 of 2184 🔗

This in Spectator update..

“Some 438 deaths involved Covid-19 in the week to 9 October in England and Wales, accounting for 4.4% of all deaths. The figure marks an increase of 117 deaths on the previous week….”

Mmm, could this ‘increase’ be because since 8th October, Public Health England stopped reporting covid and flu deaths separately?

197355 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to T. Prince, 3, #1233 of 2184 🔗

Unless they’re going to test for flu in the same way they test for SARS-CoV-2, they should be recorded together in my view. But the label should be “generic viral infection with possible bacterial infections too” not “coronavirus”.

It’s perfectly possible that some of the people that died had flu too, and if we were serious about reality then co-infections would be of interest.

I don’t hold out much hope that they’ll be doing this though.

197401 ▶▶ jb12, replying to T. Prince, 2, #1234 of 2184 🔗

I think I have seen you say this about PHE before, but it isn’t true. The report is combined, the counts (for whatever they are worth) are not.

197780 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to jb12, #1235 of 2184 🔗

I stand corrected. Numbers are kept separate in a ‘combined report’ but statements like this don’t help…

The overall number of acute respiratory infection incidents reported to PHE Health Protection Teams increased from 885 in the previous week to 1140 in week 41 in England. SARS-CoV-2 was detected in the majority of these incidents.
https://www.gov.uk/governme

197348 John P, replying to John P, 15, #1236 of 2184 🔗

#mancexit

I’ve just read on twitter that Greater Manchester is leaving the UK without a deal.

Does anyone know if Greater Manchester is going to remain a part of the Commonwealth or if it is going to become a republic?

197359 ▶▶ DRW, replying to John P, #1237 of 2184 🔗

All must hail Dear Leader Burnham.

197394 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to DRW, 1, #1238 of 2184 🔗

Sigh, it seems the poster was wrong. I’ve just read that the bastard caved.

Burnham caves & Grt Manchester enters Tier 3 for £22 million.

197351 Eddy, replying to Eddy, 3, #1239 of 2184 🔗

The highest tier of Covid restrictions is expected to be imposed on Greater Manchester after talks over financial support broke down.
BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg said local leaders had asked for £65m but would now get less than £60m. An average footballers transfer fee to cover 3 million people?

197416 ▶▶ John P, replying to Eddy, #1240 of 2184 🔗

Where is the reliable news on this Andrew? Elsewhere I have read that Burnham caved for £22 million?

197372 Eddy, replying to Eddy, 4, #1241 of 2184 🔗

Prime Minister Boris Johnson is set to hold a press conference and tell more lies to the nation at 17:00 BST.
That press conference will be followed by more bullshit in the House of Commons from Health Secretary Matt Hancock at 19:00.

197412 ▶▶ John P, replying to Eddy, 5, #1242 of 2184 🔗

Thanks for the heads up. I will ensure I am elsewhere.

197472 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to John P, 2, #1243 of 2184 🔗

Me too -can’t bear to watch Bojo, Handjog, Witty or Van Morrison

197504 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Eddy, #1244 of 2184 🔗

Bozo the Clown at 5, Handjob at 7, is not going to be good news.

197527 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to Eddy, #1245 of 2184 🔗

Rulespaffer spaffing.

I shall ignore; I shall change nothing in my own life. What else can I do?

197373 Mel, replying to Mel, 5, #1246 of 2184 🔗

All this, and yet London seems to have reached herd immunity without anyone noticing….

https://coronavirus-staging.data.gov.uk/details/deaths?areaType=region&areaName=London

197478 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Mel, 1, #1247 of 2184 🔗

The problem is they will say it never “surged” because of Khan’s Tier 2 lockdown.

197501 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Mel, 1, #1248 of 2184 🔗

I noticed, Mel; if you look up my posts on previous LS updates, you’ll see I’ve been ranting against Khan’s ever changing demands for weeks now. I’ve posted quite a few rants against the little shit with figures showing next to nothing happening in London.

197374 Rosie, replying to Rosie, 21, #1249 of 2184 🔗

Especially for Janeinthemindfield – and the people who replied to her. I succeeded in taking a week’s holiday recently and here are my thoughts about it. Hope it helps.

A letter from a holiday in North Devon Part 1

Every year we holiday in the same place in North Devon, near the sea. For those who don’t know the area, North Devon is in the South-West of England, facing the Atlantic Ocean, and is relatively unspoiled. Inland there are wild upland areas of moorland, bogs, a few sheep, and hedgerows of beech trees, their shape distorted by the gales; while the coastline is bleak and rocky with high cliffs interrupted by beautiful sandy beaches, popular with families and with surfers. In the narrow valleys are small villages with stone-built houses, cottage gardens and ancient rugged churches, rich in history and with many pubs serving the clean-tasting local ales made with Exmoor water, and traditional cream teas in the afternoon.

We almost didn’t go, not wanting happy memories to be overlain by images of notices ordering us to keep apart from others, or of people, familiar faces from previous visits, covered over, miserable, expressionless. In the end, utterly desperate for a break, feeling as though I had aged by ten years in fewer months, we did go but not until it was October.

On the drive down we visited the usual friends. I could scarcely wait to see Mary, a friend who I already knew to be as horrified as I am by what has happened this year: the non-stop lies and propaganda about a cold/flu illness which, though nasty, kills few – rules and regulations issued with no democratic oversight, and for reasons that are unclear – the horrifying effects of separation, isolation and distancing on individual lives – the loss of community events, clubs & societies, and of music, singing, dancing, shops, businesses, livelihoods – and above all the fear, the constant gnawing fear, of what they will do next.

Ordinarily compliant and law-abiding, Mary had astonished herself by ignoring the distancing rules from the very beginning. One of my abiding images from the year is of the smirk on Boris Johnson’s face when he told the nation that we should not visit our parents on Mothering Sunday. The data was already clear and he knew, just as much as readers here knew, that this was an unnecessary and cruel instruction. Careful and calm, kind and considerate, Mary changed none of her routines but continued to take her elderly and disabled mother out for her weekly drive and to offer her friends a hug of welcome. But things changed nonetheless: she began to fear every passing police-car, and fears being shopped to the authorities, merely for hugging her friends and family. As we left, we all said goodbye – a permanent, ‘forever’ goodbye, just in case.

We also met Zara, who was heavily pregnant …. and wearing a thick mask. I was so shocked that instead of greeting her I just blurted out, “Surely you must be exempt!” In reply she said, “It makes me feel safe, and that’s all that matters, that I feel safe.” Thinking to myself that to be calm and unstressed while pregnant is indeed important, I asked first if I could talk to her about it and then mentioned the colonies of bacteria and fungi that masks harbour, and refrained from mentioning the disturbance to the oxygen/carbon dioxide balance. (Having since seen the link below from Dr. Margarite Griesz-Brisson, I wish I had). She did in fact take the thing off, but how long for I’ve no idea. She then told me that her midwives had told her to always wear her mask – an untested medical intervention on the unborn child that is surely immoral and against every research protocol.

Before leaving home I had had a small hope that people living by the sea, in immediate proximity to the elements, might have a bit more sense than ‘townies’. We humans can no more control this virus than we can the tide, the wind and the waves, or the temperature for that matter – that is to say, we can make a marginal, fractional difference, with much work and under limited circumstances, but no more than that.

Suffice to say, my hope was not fulfilled. After unpacking on our first evening, we drove down to the coast road, and there they were, outside in their muzzles – despite howling gale, crashing waves, driving rain, pitch black, and near-deserted roads. The situation did not improve, and we soon found that the only place that was safe from the insanity was right down on the beach, among the surfers and dog walkers. I did not in fact notice a single dog walker wearing a mask, presumably being well aware of muzzles being appropriate, occasionally, to a dog and not to humans.

197378 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Rosie, 16, #1250 of 2184 🔗

A letter from a holiday in North Devon Part 2

As others have noticed, women were a lot more covered than men. Having spent my childhood to background re-echoes of ‘burn your bra’ and ‘emancipation for women’, to calls for freedom of expression, the right to be heard, and recognition of artistic achievements, such voluntary submission to repression of communication seems bizarre in the extreme.

But what really distresses me is the sight of families with young children – the children unable to properly hear or to see their parents – still worse, many children also with their faces covered over. In trying to articulate this abomination I find myself lost for words. Just where are the teachers, child development specialists, speech therapists and the like? Why is there not an overwhelming chorus of condemnation?

Thankfully, having a lifelong phobia of masks, I am myself exempt. Credit where it’s due: the holiday park where we stayed never questioned me, and they have made an effort to minimise the number of signs and warnings. Every year I speak to the management about the need for more thorough cleaning and ask for our caravan to be re-cleaned before we settle in, but no need this year – except at the indoor pool – where the authorities have banned the use of the showers and the changing rooms, with the result that nobody showers before entering the pool and outdoor mud and dirt was trampled around the poolside. Idiotic.

Pushback: every little helps. Obviously, if I’m to talk properly to anyone, I have to ask them to remove their mask. It seems that in many places staff are allowed (or are willing) to do so. The weird thing is, having done so, most people start to behave in a normal fashion, actually move closer to speak to me, and chatter and laugh as they used to do.

I find my own personality changing: whereas I used to be a listener, and say little of my own opinions but be interested in other people’s, I now find myself stating my own views loudly, trying as best I can to sound confident/robust, not whiny or challenging, but as though standing sturdily on firm ground. While waiting around outside in the rain to enter a nice warm and almost empty building, I said something about this being a load of nonsense and another woman was so happy I did so! She completely agreed but had been feeling entirely on her own (her friends having succumbed to the panic) and told me that in Cornwall there have been many demonstrations. She’d not heard of Lockdown Sceptics (she has now)! We had a normal warm and friendly chat, just as we would have had a year ago, and said goodbye with a hug.

That’s the thing I always say to people when given the chance – that nothing has materially changed. A year ago we had a range of cold/flu viruses and what was needed was for better general cleanliness, thorough hand-washing, greater care not to cough or sneeze over other people – and – open the windows and let in the fresh air! (Our much-derided Victorian forebears knew that which is why they built schools and churches with high ceilings to allow plenty of air for everyone.) This year we still have a range of cold/flu viruses, and there was no need to go from one extreme to the other. As a de-brainwashing strategy, and to re-establish common sense, it seems to have some effect and pre-empts many of the counter arguments along the lines of not taking it seriously enough.

At times, my anger seeps out – but I think that’s ok. This situation was not of my making and anger is the appropriate response; controlled and useful anger, that is to say. As Richmal Crompton said many years ago in one of her Just William stories, “We all have a duty to fight against tyranny” – and so we should in any practical way we can. Submission is wrong.

197383 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Rosie, 14, #1251 of 2184 🔗

A letter from a holiday in North Devon Part 3

Needing to buy a few gifts, I went into a RNLI shop (RNLI = the Royal National Lifeboat Institute). Their motto is “With courage, nothing is impossible” and it features on their range of bags and mugs and other items. A few miles along the road is Lynmouth, scene of a famous deed of heroism in 1899, when the local people hauled the lifeboat overland, over the top of Countisbury Hill, which is high and very steep on both sides, and on for 13 miles in order to launch the boat from Porlock from where they could rescue the 18-man crew of a large ship driven onto the rocks. No modern rainwear, no tractors to help haul the boat, no engine on the lifeboat (they had to row), no self-righting boats, and no life-jackets worthy of the term.

As I picked up a mug emblazoned with this ‘courage’ quotation, considering whether to buy it, I became aware of a muffled voice speaking from some distance away and saying something about masks. After several repetitions I asked, “Are you speaking to me?” I was in no mood to be polite. The disembodied voice wanted to know why I wasn’t wearing a mask. “Because I’m exempt of course, otherwise I’d be wearing it.” “Well, I don’t know” he replied. “Look,” I said, “we all know that this is a load of bollox so why don’t you just leave people alone?” There was no reply as he meekly returned to his counter, and neither did either of the other customers say anything. When I went to pay, aside from the fact that I won’t/can’t look at the face of a faceless person, we had a perfectly ordinary and friendly interaction (despite some surprise in his voice!) as I enquired about whether he takes cash and had change for a twenty pound note. I was reminded again of the strong psychological advantage of being the person whose face is free.

By the way, the sense of irony was too strong and I didn’t buy the mug, settling instead for an anodyne underwater scene.

On the other hand, the local boat club had the right idea. The sign on the door, in place of the usual “Covid-19 restrictions … do this … don’t do that … ” this sign witnessed to the plain truth: “Because of government restrictions on socialising we are not allowed to admit …. ”

On the positive side, I now give a cheery and confident greeting to anyone I encounter who isn’t masked and, ignoring occasional strange looks, I generally get a warm and chatty response – in these days people just want an ordinary friendly conversation, even if it is with a complete stranger.

While I was away I deliberately avoided all contact with the news, but a friend did tell me about the Great Barrington Declaration. What a relief, that medics across the globe were speaking out! My takeaway feeling from our holiday was as follows: a shared hope and belief that by next year’s holiday season, everything will be alright and back to normal….

However, the journey home was marred by sight of a proliferation of wind turbines – bird mincers, bat destroyers, and net consumers of energy – another appalling agenda being foisted upon this nation and accelerated ever faster by Boris Johnson. The following day, within an hour of looking at the news headlines and reports, reality had come back to roost…. the British government and media are still banging the same old drum – more fear, more panic, still trying to make out that positive test results are significant, more restrictions, more lockdowns, Christmas still cancelled, music still cancelled, professional musicians and ballet dancers told to retrain, pubs, shops, small businesses and jobs disappearing, and other stuff (ie – important things in life) cancelled right through to the middle of next year. ‘Build back better’ they say, seemingly to a world devoid of culture, beauty, friendship, fun, jobs or any meaning in life.

197388 ▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Rosie, 12, #1252 of 2184 🔗

A letter from a holiday in North Devon Part 4

I had spent a lot of time on holiday (mostly in the rain) standing on the edge of the sea and watching the waves rushing in, draining out, and churning up the sand. Signs at the top of the beach warn of the fast moving currents (often termed “rip tides”) that can carry the unwary out to sea. Those who go along with lockdown and who dismiss all warnings of danger as “Conspiracy Theory” are like a person floating on an airbed, blissfully relaxed and yet being carried far out to sea. Meanwhile we ‘sceptics’ are like those standing in the edge of the water trying to keep our footing as waves and currents swirl dangerously around us…. and as the tide of anti-human authoritarian control continues to creep in.

When I think about what this country used to stand for – competence, efficiency, creativity and invention, individuality, high standards, free debate and the search for objective truth, honesty, minimal levels of corruption, and freedom within rational limits and natural justice; a nation that essentially governed itself via shared values and mutual respect and had no need either of rules or rulers …
… and then think about what we have now, seemingly arbitrary rules made without concern for cost, suffering or consequences – I am again lost for words to describe how I feel. It cannot be real, and yet it is and every day I wake up and remember that I have to face another full day of it.

So now that I’ve returned home to the same old story that we’ve heard non-stop from January, how do I avoid falling into the same desperation that led me to need a holiday so very badly? Somehow I need to focus my efforts, not uselessly thrash around in disorder – do something, and contribute, but not feel alone under the whole crushing burden.

Perhaps I need to quit revisiting how it happened and quit fretting about ‘why’ and quit thinking, for example, about Jacob Rees-Mogg, that apparent upholder of parliamentary procedure, who, I had thought, stands for what is right, whom I used to admire and trust.

Instead think ‘what’. What can I do and how long each day can I spend doing it? And what else do I need to do to keep myself strong and healthy and able to keep going?

I wish it need not have happened in my time,” said Frodo.
“So do I,” said Gandalf, “and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring

197396 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Rosie, 6, #1253 of 2184 🔗

A letter from a holiday in North Devon Links & references

Dystopian 2020, Roger Koops
2020 is a year of disguises. Some examples include computer models/modelers disguised as “science/scientists,” Tyrants/Dictators/Totalitarians disguised as “elected officials,” propaganda machines disguised as “news sources,” brainwashing disguised as “information,” censorship disguised as “public health safeguard,” panic and fear disguised as “social responsibility.”
https://www.aier.org/article/the-year-of-disguises/

On the matter of a pregnant woman wearing a facemask:

“Wearing a mask is not without side effects. Oxygen deficiency (headache, nausea, fatigue, loss of concentration) occurs fairly quickly, an effect similar to altitude sickness. Every day we now see patients complaining of headaches, sinus problems, respiratory problems and hyperventilation due to wearing masks. In addition, the accumulated CO2 leads to a toxic acidification of the organism which affects our immunity. .. Our Labour Code (Codex 6) refers to a CO2 content (ventilation in workplaces) of 900 ppm, maximum 1200 ppm in special circumstances. After wearing a mask for one minute, this toxic limit is considerably exceeded to values that are three to four times higher than these maximum values. Anyone who wears a mask is therefore in an extreme poorly ventilated room. … ” https://docs4opendebate.be/en/open-letter/

Dr. Margarite Griesz-Brisson:
“Masks cause oxygen deprivation and permanent neurological damage, especially in the developing brains of children.” Dr. Margarite Griesz-Brisson MD, PhD (a Consultant Neurologist and Neurophysiologist with a special interest in neurotoxicology, environmental medicine, neuroregeneration and neuroplasticity). “I know how damaging oxygen deprivation is for the brain, cardiologists know how damaging it is for the heart, pulmonologists know how damaging it is for the lungs. Oxygen deprivation damages every single organ.”
https://www.sott.net/article/442455-German-Neurologist-Warns-Against-Wearing-Facemasks-Oxygen-Deprivation-Causes-Permanent-Neurological-Damage

The Mask and the Bump, Patrick Corbett assesses the available information
https://off-guardian.org/2020/09/29/the-mask-and-the-bump/

Ignore this so-called science, the masks don’t work, Will Jones
https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/ignore-this-so-called-science-the-masks-don’t-work/

Cruelty to women and babies (in France)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-8834045/Women-France-felt-like-suffocating-forced-wear-face-masks-childbirth.html

The famous Lynmouth/Porlock rescue:
https://rnli.org/about-us/our-history/timeline/1899-launch-from-porlock-weir &nbsp ;

Dr Mike Yeadon explains false positives
video https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=787786448454826

Flu/cold vaccines:
“Survey studies on influenza vaccinations show that in 10 years we have only succeeded three times in developing a vaccine with an efficiency rate of more than 50%. Vaccinating our elderly appears to be inefficient. Over 75 years of age, the efficacy is almost non-existent.
Due to the continuous natural mutation of viruses, as we also see every year in the case of the influenza virus, a vaccine is at most a temporary solution, which requires new vaccines each time afterwards. An untested vaccine, which is implemented by emergency procedure and for which the manufacturers have already obtained legal immunity from possible harm, raises serious questions. We do not wish to use our patients as guinea pigs.
On a global scale, 700 000 cases of damage or death are expected as a result of the vaccine.
If 95% of people experience Covid-19 virtually symptom-free, the risk of exposure to an untested vaccine is irresponsible.” https://docs4opendebate.be/en/open-letter/

On the trend to compulsory vaccination,
“And Dr Preston warned that vaccine hesitancy seemed to be a growing problem that had become embroiled in anti-mask, anti-lockdown ideologies. If cohorts of people refuse to have the vaccine, do we leave them to fend for themselves or have mandatory vaccination for children to go to schools, or for staff in care homes? There are lots of difficult questions.”
Defence Select Committee Chairman Tobias Ellwood proposed vaccine passports in the Commons this week, worryingly suggesting the idea is gaining ground. Ellwood outlined that life will return to normal for those who get the vaccine, whereas those who don’t will still be “subject to social distancing rules”.
https://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/10/02/latest-news-151/

Wind turbines:
https://stopthesethings.com/

Face masks make you stupid, Why face masks are a form of dehumanisation, Patrick Fagan
https://thecritic.co.uk/face-masks-make-you-stupid/

197399 ▶▶▶▶▶ William Hand, replying to Rosie, 5, #1254 of 2184 🔗

Thanks for your letters. I live on Dartmoor in south Devon and it is a bit of an oasis. Very little COVID bullshit. Stay true to yourself, that way there is no stress just anger which can be chanelled.

197407 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to William Hand, #1255 of 2184 🔗

Thank you. Good advice. Dartmoor is my favourite place in the world.

198485 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Rosie, 1, #1256 of 2184 🔗

Lovely post(s) Rosie, thanks. North Devon is indeed a special place.

And greetings, to you and Willhhand, from SW Dartmoor.

It is possible to detach from covid bullshit here, although close to 100% muzzles in shops.

197444 ▶▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Rosie, 1, #1257 of 2184 🔗

Beautifully written, I am glad you managed to get a break.

As a native German I had to laugh at your opinion that this country is efficient. I mean, the last few months just prove it, don’t they…

197494 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Silke David, #1258 of 2184 🔗

Thank you Silke
No, we used to have a reputation for efficiency, not remotely deserved now!
Do you follow the ACU2020 hearings?

197469 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Rosie, 4, #1259 of 2184 🔗

Thanks for this and glad that you managed to get a break.

The bit about the pregnant woman and the midwife’s advice is appalling. The midwife should be reported to the Nursing & Midwifery council for wrong advice (if that’s even possible).

197487 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #1260 of 2184 🔗

Thank you Bart.
She was clear that it was ‘all’ the midwives – I know, it’s headshaking – and look at the links, the women in France.

197984 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #1261 of 2184 🔗

It could be seen as “fitness to practice” which could be raised on the NMC website.

197470 ▶▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Rosie, 3, #1262 of 2184 🔗

Well written – I’m glad you had a break despite the abnormality. A comment on speech therapists if I may. Mrs leggy works in a primary school and recently reported to me that the visiting therapist is conducting all of her 1-2-1 sessions with the children whilst wearing a mask. The problems therein are clearly obvious. It’s strange as no-one else at the school wears them and there is no diktat regarding parents wearing them either.

197484 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to leggy, 2, #1263 of 2184 🔗

Thank you. It’s the first thing for months that I’ve been able to write. Was going strong before masking came in and that knocked me sideways.
Speech therapy masked…. unbelievable …. contradiction in terms.

197515 ▶▶▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Rosie, 1, #1264 of 2184 🔗

Rosie, thanks so much for this so well written and a brilliant read. I admire your insistence that others take their mask off to speak to you, it’s a minimum requirement of healthy human interaction that I have tolerated for too long. I also loved you retort to being exempt and I agree that the free faced have a psychological advantage. It’s a load of bollocks and most of the rule followers know this.

197526 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to JHuntz, 2, #1265 of 2184 🔗

I’m so glad you enjoyed it, J. Writing is my #1 hobby and I’m happy to help anyone here with something important.
Agree that we need to insist on human interactions, and I’m pleased you approved of my borderline-rude retort !

197595 ▶▶▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Rosie, 1, #1266 of 2184 🔗

So beautifully written!, I felt like I was there in Devon too. Thank you. I also like to give anyone I meet who isn’t masked a cheery and confident greeting, sometimes even complimenting their face or saying something like ‘it’s good to see a human face’ and like you I usually get a warm and chatty response. I feel like there must be a lot of people out there with sceptical views who just don’t know that there are others who share their views.

197657 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to watashi, 1, #1267 of 2184 🔗

Thank you Watashi. I think most of us need a holiday so I’m pleased you felt you were there too, that’s great.
I feel like there must be a lot of people out there with sceptical views who just don’t know that there are others who share their views.
Oh, definitely, and we need to open that up as much as we can.

198133 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Rosie, 1, #1268 of 2184 🔗

Gandalf was right. It’s no use grizzling because we are in this mess. It’s no use burying our heads. It’s no use squawking ‘I despair, I despair.’ (Remember Denethor?)
You do what Frodo and Sam did. You defy evil. You take on a task that seems hopeless, and you go on until you’ve given everything you’ve got and more. You have no guarantee of success or even survival, but you BLOODY WELL DO IT ANYWAY BECAUSE IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

197425 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Rosie, 5, #1269 of 2184 🔗

However, the journey home was marred by sight of a proliferation of wind turbines – bird mincers, bat destroyers, and net consumers of energy – another appalling agenda being foisted upon this nation and accelerated ever faster by Boris Johnson.

Wind turbines, my pet hate. Few of them in my county, at least thus far, but going to Scotland in 2018 for a cousins’ wedding brought the depressing sight of acre upon acre of lowland hills carpeted in the things.

197480 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to John P, #1270 of 2184 🔗

More things we agree upon, JohnP 😉
Read more about it, if you wish 🙂 https://www.beautyandthebeastlytruth.com/

197420 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Rosie, 3, #1271 of 2184 🔗

Child abuse (no ifs or buts)

197489 ▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1272 of 2184 🔗

I agree – most of this new abnormal is

197403 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to Rosie, 10, #1273 of 2184 🔗

Shame on those midwives telling your friend to wear a mask at all times!! Lack of oxygen to her baby as well as her own brain! Absolutely shocking!!!!!!!!

197411 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Janice21, #1274 of 2184 🔗

I’ve posted some links but they are awaiting approval.

197652 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Rosie, #1275 of 2184 🔗

Being a bit picky but doesn’t North Devon face the Celtic Sea? The North Atlantic officially starts past Land’s End somewhere.

197377 nocheesegromit, replying to nocheesegromit, 26, #1276 of 2184 🔗

Just sticking my head out to say I go to the University of York (they of negligent fire practices). The guidance has now been changed but the university are saying the information sent out was ‘incorrect’ according to an SU member. I have made the point to the SU that a) why the fuck was it even drafted if they knew it was incorrect, and b) it is obvious to a 2 year old that fire presents a much higher risk of death to students than COVID-19. Whoever drafted that policy should never be allowed to work in fire risk assessments ever again!

197499 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to nocheesegromit, 1, #1277 of 2184 🔗

Hear, hear!! I seriously doubt that this was in error, more like they were rumbled.

197379 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 10, #1278 of 2184 🔗

As it looked likely we are close to another illegal Lockdown I thought I’d get my haircut sooner rather than later. My hairdresser tells me they had booked a holiday in Herefordshire, since then Wales has locked down!! She’s not happy! She also told me that she’s been picking up a lot of work because other mobile hairdressers are afraid of contracting the virus!! Their loss is her gain! 😊

197386 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #1279 of 2184 🔗

I need to find one of her near me.

197422 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #1280 of 2184 🔗

And hair loss is her game!
Sorry . . .

197432 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to CGL, 3, #1281 of 2184 🔗

Ha ha! What also cheered me up when she apologised that she hadn’t brought her mask and asked if I minded!! Bless her I was overjoyed she hadn’t brought the damned thing!

197493 ▶▶ Locked down and out, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #1282 of 2184 🔗

But what’s the problem in terms of booking a holiday in Herefordshire. It’s in England. Or am I missing something here?

197692 ▶▶▶ maggie may, replying to Locked down and out, #1283 of 2184 🔗

Maybe she’s in Wales?

197387 swedenborg, 15, #1284 of 2184 🔗

https://www.covibes.org/public/Argentina
 Argentina must be the worst example of lockdown. The country has now had lockdown for 7 months and as can be seen on the link, implemented almost when they had no cases. They have now passed 1 million marks and deaths per capita higher than Sweden. The lockdown did not stop the virus from spreading. And even worse for mask fanatics. Mandatory mask mandate early on did not stop transmission. This is a seasonal virus and peaks in their “winter” irrespective of lockdown, SD and masks. It is unstoppable.

197398 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 49, #1285 of 2184 🔗

Reasons to be cheerful 111.
Just had our boiler serviced by “maskless” Nick and noticing my anti lockdown badge asked where he could get one.
He told me he had just turned down a big job because the woman had insisted that he and his mate wear masks all the time while in her house.
“NAH”,said Nick, I’m not prepared to do that, whatever the cost.
We could do with a lot more “Nicks”

197400 ▶▶ John P, replying to Fingerache Philip., 10, #1286 of 2184 🔗

Good man.

197402 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Fingerache Philip., 9, #1287 of 2184 🔗

We need 80% Nicks, not the current 20%.

197409 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to jhfreedom, 2, #1288 of 2184 🔗

I’m sure that 20% will increase.

197435 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #1289 of 2184 🔗

We will. I’ve done it myself. And I’ve taken none of Sunak’s funny money either.

197446 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to John P, 2, #1290 of 2184 🔗

GOOD FOR YOU, JOHN.

197455 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1291 of 2184 🔗

Thanks Philip.

197462 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to John P, #1292 of 2184 🔗

Pleasure.

197418 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #1293 of 2184 🔗

Where can I get an anti lockdown badge?

197448 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Janice21, 2, #1294 of 2184 🔗

Amazon, Ebay and I believe some “independents”

197473 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Janice21, 3, #1295 of 2184 🔗

Two-Six still has some I believe

197678 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Janice21, 2, #1296 of 2184 🔗

I’ve posted a couple of badges on my site and Redbubble.

Let me know if you have a preferred slogan and I’ll publish it.

197495 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1297 of 2184 🔗

Well done him!!

197404 John Stone, #1298 of 2184 🔗

From a very senior scientist. Peter & Ginger Breggin ‘Fauci’s COVID-19 treachery’

https://breggin.com/coronavirus/COVID-19-the-blog-TREACHERY-WITH-ANTHONY-FAUCI.pdf

197405 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #1299 of 2184 🔗

Simon Dolan Update
Sir Lindsay Hoyle has applied to intervene in our case against the Govt lockdown.

Hoyle, the Speaker of the House of Commons says he will intervene in the case on 29th Oct because it raises issues of ‘constitutional importance’

Full update
https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/lockdownlegalchallenge/

197417 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Basics, #1300 of 2184 🔗

Intervene? What stop it happening?

197419 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to Basics, #1301 of 2184 🔗

??? Positive or negative intervention?

197428 ▶▶▶ Crazy Times, replying to Telpin, 2, #1302 of 2184 🔗

Got to be positive if he’s using the words “constitutional importance”. Hoyle has always come across as a good man IMO, certainly a marked improvement from the shit bag that ran the commons before.

197436 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Crazy Times, 2, #1303 of 2184 🔗

Damned with (very) faint praise!

197441 ▶▶▶▶▶ Crazy Times, replying to IanE, #1304 of 2184 🔗

Though looking at his actual voting record, I’m now not so sure. It’s a very mixed bag to say the least.
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10295/lindsay_hoyle/chorley/votes

197583 ▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Crazy Times, 3, #1305 of 2184 🔗

Given Hoyle’s intervention to prevent the 1922 amendment from being read, I’m not hopeful.

My reading is that Hoyle is going to try to sink Dolan’s case because it infringes Parliamentary privilege.

197429 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Basics, 3, #1306 of 2184 🔗

Big Brother Watch are intervening too as a ‘party of interest’.

197421 nickbowes, replying to nickbowes, 3, #1307 of 2184 🔗

From Simon Dolan`s twitter feed:- good news, possibly:

Sir Lindsay Hoyle has applied to intervene in our case against the Govt lockdown.

Hoyle, the Speaker of the House of Commons says he will intervene in the case on 29th Oct because it raises issues of ‘constitutional importance’

197430 ▶▶ IanE, replying to nickbowes, 1, #1308 of 2184 🔗

And you think an MP will be on our side???

197439 ▶▶▶ nickbowes, replying to IanE, 2, #1309 of 2184 🔗

Probably not tbh.

197450 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to IanE, #1310 of 2184 🔗

Well there are 50-100 lockdown sceptic MPs and it rather depends perhaps on what Hoyle has in mind.

I think we ought to wait and see.

197521 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to nickbowes, 3, #1311 of 2184 🔗

Full update:

Speaker intervenes in Simon Dolan’s legal fight against lockdown

Lindsay Hoyle declares the case is of ‘constitutional importance’

October 20, 2020

Sir Lindsay Hoyle has applied to intervene in a legal fight brought by Simon Dolan and Cripps Barn Group against the Government’s lockdown restrictions.

Hoyle, the Speaker of the House of Commons says he will intervene in the case because it raises issues of ‘constitutional importance’.

Businessman Simon Dolan and leading wedding venue operator Cripps are challenging the restrictions on wedding receptions which are devastating the hospitality industry and seeking a judicial review. They argue that the Rule of Six, the 10pm curfew and the limit on wedding receptions to 15 people were introduced illegally and without proper scrutiny by parliament.

The claimants say the Government misused legislation to bring in the new regulations. They say the Government introduced the new measures through the Public Health (Control of Infectious Disease) Act 1984 by certifying the legislation as ‘urgent’. That loophole allowed Ministers to make the laws effective immediately without prior approval in parliament.

However, the through his legal counsel, the Speaker has expressed concern that when the court examines this aspect of the claim it could breach Parliamentary privilege which is enshrined in Article 9 of the Bill of Rights 1689. The Speaker’s Counsel has stated that, if that happened, it would “amount to an attack on the ability of each House of Parliament to determine when and how to exercise its functions in scrutinising legislation, subject to the time limits imposed by statutory provisions.”

The Speaker’s intervention in the case comes at the same time as UK civil liberties campaign group Big Brother Watch has applied to intervene in the separate judicial review case brought by Mr Dolan which is due to be heard by the Court of Appeal next week.

Last Thursday lawyers acting for Simon Dolan and Cripps went to the High Court to seek an injunction against the Government’s latest restrictions on the grounds that they had been made unlawfully without prior Parliamentary approval. Mr Justice Swift denied the application for an injunction at the Royal Courts of Justice at an all-day hearing.

However, Simon Dolan and Cripps are continuing with the case and are applying for a judicial review into the lockdown restrictions which prevent proper weddings from taking place.

Simon Dolan said: “It is ironic that the Speaker now getting involved in this case. The whole reason we are fighting the Government in court is because Parliament was not given a chance to scrutinise the latest lockdown restrictions. Hoyle even stated himself that was unacceptable. Yet his intervention is all about the narrow issue of protecting Parliamentary privilege, rather than promoting the proper scrutiny of important legisalation. But his intervention shows how important our legal fight is and how seriously it is being taken. The Government could have decided to have the laws looked at and approved if it wished. It hasn’t tried to do so – deliberately – because it does not want Parliament involved. Hiding behind the notion that its lockdown laws are too “urgent” to be subject to scrutiny by Parliament is wrong.

“The decision by Mr Justice Swift last week was disappointing. I do not think he looked closely enough at the specific data about where infections are being passed on. He was happy to rely on what he had seen in ‘the news’. But that is not a detailed examination of the evidence. Coronavirus is not being spread in hospitality situations. The wedding sector is being unfairly destroyed by nonsensical laws which were imposed without proper debate or scrutiny in parliament.

“We will continue our legal fight against the restrictions on weddings. We are seeking a judicial review into those measures and how they were brought in. This comes on top of our other judicial review into the wider lockdown measures. We are also asking the Court of Appeal to rule on whether the initial lockdown measures were brought in ‘ultra vires’ – outside the scope of the law they relied on in the Public Health Act.

“Since we started the legal fight against the Government’s lockdown in May people have been increasingly supportive of our arguments. It is now widely accepted that the harm from lockdown is greater than the risk to public health from COVID-19. The answer to coronavirus is not a circuit breaker or a three-tier system. It is to let people get on with their lives and their livelihoods.”

Not quite good news. Necessarily.

197524 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #1312 of 2184 🔗

Love the way he quotes the Bill of Rights. There a few things we the people could quote from the Bill of Rights to Parliament, starting with the Right to Bear Arms.

197535 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1313 of 2184 🔗

And this:
The pretended power of suspending the laws and dispensing with laws by regal authority without consent of Parliament is illegal.

197538 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1314 of 2184 🔗

And this:
Excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed.

197541 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1315 of 2184 🔗

Just sayin’.

197934 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nick Rose, #1316 of 2184 🔗

Absolutely ! 🙂

(Unless one is of the Roman persuasion, of course.).

197557 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1317 of 2184 🔗

He said himself they were abusing their positions (or words to that effect – he was proper cross anyway, and doesn’t seem the sort to get easily rattled)

197431 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 12, #1318 of 2184 🔗

I have jut been on the phone for the last few hours talking to people who run camp sites in Devon. Very interesting. First person, a lady in her mid 60’s a farmers wife. I know her hubby is a proper sceptic and he has already earned his badge. She was realistic and wanted to take my details but assured me they would not go anywhere but in her little red book. She was open minded but tended to err on the side of covid caution. We had a good chat about it all and she thought the track n track thing was particularly mental.

The second lady in her 60’s probably another farmer’s wife, hadn’t opened her site all year because she had vulnerable people around her and her little camp site. Anyhow We had a very nice chat. Strange as even although she understood cases didn’t mean illness or even deaths. She was particularly worried about how “things are just going up and up and up” and that “we are back to where we were in March now” She wanted to hold onto the scary idea of cases. The you have a 99.7% change of NOT dying from it went down well and I could hear the relief BUT it didn’t seem to matter. She knows it political but didn’t want to think about it. On masks she says asian people wear them all the time don’t they and that its protect others from your droplets.

All anti mask info was taken on-board and rejected. Strange again. Such a cognitive rift.

Third call, talked to a young sounding farmer guy, his boss has a vulnerable wife and is totally paranoid and makes him wear a mask and gloves “in the shed”. He and his wife are sceptical. Interesting he was pretty cagey with me initially then as soon as he discovered I was a Covid Sceptic the barn doors flew open lol.

I hope we can meet up and have a beer!

Interesting to do the phone calls thing and actually perhaps a good way to un-brainwash people. Call them up on the pretence of something or other but use it to drop some anti MSM psych-bombs on them. Could this be a campaign method? Call 10 people, try to get them to call 10 people etc…hummm

197467 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Two-Six, #1319 of 2184 🔗

Agree. Take any and every opportunity – and make opportunities as well.
Similar experience with people being very worried to speak their mind until they know your opinions.

197481 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Two-Six, 2, #1320 of 2184 🔗

Good stuff – are you just randomly calling camp sites, or are you after a holiday? 🙂

197522 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to leggy, 6, #1321 of 2184 🔗

Lol, I do like talking to camp site people but I am actually trying to find one to stay at.

197434 Bill h, replying to Bill h, 11, #1322 of 2184 🔗

Im posting this chart from CEBM Oxford again, because I think it packs an enormous punch in disabusing anyone sensible, that we are in the middle of an epidemic.
comment image

197576 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Bill h, 2, #1323 of 2184 🔗

This is good. But too many people on here are missing the government’s argument. The government is claiming that it is getting AHEAD of the curve and that their testing data shows that a surge is imminent.

I’m not saying they are right, but you cannot disprove their argument by showing the current death rate.

Graphs, charts and data showing current hospitalisations and deaths completely miss the point.

And that is what is so dangerous and insidious about the government’s position – it is literally impossible to prove them wrong. They can’t prove they are right, but we can’t prove they are wrong. So it becomes a shouting match, which, of course, they are going to win hands down.

The only thing that “saves” us is economic collapse. Sadly.

197654 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to stewart, 1, #1324 of 2184 🔗

If overall all cause mortality is plumb normal for the time of year consistently, as it has been since the end of May, then, quite clearly government tomfoolery has made no health impact whatsoever.

And if the Amnesty International Report shows, as it does:

Several care home managers told Amnesty that they had no COVID-19 in their homes until after they received patients discharged from hospital. The manager of a care home in Yorkshire said:

“Because of what we’d witnessed in Spain and Italy, we stopped visitors on 28 February and got PPE. We had no cases until 28 March when a resident was discharged from hospital with COVID.”

These and other decisions taken by the Government led to violations of human rights of older people in care homes during the pandemic – notably their right to life, their right to health and their right to non-discrimination.’

Then the increase in overall all cause mortality March-May is mainly, if not entirely, due to government incompetence.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2020/10/uk-older-people-in-care-homes-abandoned-to-die-amid-government-failures-during-covid-19-pandemic/

Rumbled! Bang to rights!

197578 ▶▶ DespairSquid, replying to Bill h, #1325 of 2184 🔗

Great chart.

Also interesting to see the impact of holidays on registrations – Easter, Christmas and Bank Holidays. I didn’t think it would be so noticeable!

197438 John Stone, 7, #1326 of 2184 🔗

The Queen, personal autonomy and Coronavirus vaccines. Following is my letter in to BMJ RAPID Responses regarding new GMC ethical guidelines on consent etc.:

Re: New guidance from the GMC: what constitutes meaningful dialogue? Vaccines are a matter of individual autonomy too Re: New guidance from the GMC: what constitutes meaningful dialogue? Daniel Sokol. 371:doi 10.1136/bmj.m3933
Dear Editor
I welcome the new guidelines [1,2]. I have viewed with concern the idea floated in The Times by Heidi Larson of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine that the Queen could be called on to boost trust in coronavirus vaccine [3]. Would such a promotional exercise really be an appropriate place to start in accepting any of the new products, either for her or for us?
Surely it is imperative that any individual choices are made on the basis of fully informed consent and not collective or political pressure, and this tolerance of individual autonomy is recognised for all vaccines. The recent Cumberlege review has recognised in principle where such pressures could lead [4] and it is hard to see why vaccines should be exempt. Nor should anyone be labelled an “anti-vaxxer”, least of all by the Prime Minister, because they do not jump into line [5].
[1] Daniel Sokol, ‘ New guidance from the GMC: what constitutes meaningful dialogue?, BMJ 2020; 371 doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.m3933 (Published 12 October 2020)
[2] ‘Decision making and consent’, GMC 30 September 2020, https://www.gmc-uk.org/ethical-guidance/ethical-guidance-for-doctors/dec
[3] Rhys Blakely, ‘ Queen could be called on to boost trust in coronavirus vaccine’, The Times 17 October 2020,
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/queen-could-be-called-on-to-boost-tru
[4] Helen Haskell, ‘ Cumberlege review exposes stubborn and dangerous flaws in healthcare’, BMJ 2020; 370 doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.m3099 (Published 06 August 2020)
[5] John Stone, ‘Regarding the Use of the Term “Anti-Vaxxer”’, 27 August 2020, https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3099/rr-5
Competing interests: AgeofAutism.com, an on-line daily journal, concerns itself with the potential environmental sources for the proliferation of autism, neurological impairment, immune dysfunction and chronic disease. I receive no payment as UK Editor
20 October 2020
John Stone
UK Editor
AgeofAutism.com
London N22
@JohnStone32

197447 JHuntz, replying to JHuntz, 7, #1327 of 2184 🔗

comment image

Schools open – everything shut / schools closed – limited freedom. This new normal is a whole lot of fun.

197456 ▶▶ Crazy Times, replying to JHuntz, 5, #1328 of 2184 🔗

Police patrolling the border to enforce it apparently, no hard border they kept saying for a few years?

197463 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Crazy Times, 2, #1329 of 2184 🔗

Is that to keep the Republic’s people in, or the Province’s people in?

197474 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to JHuntz, 2, #1330 of 2184 🔗

Can the northerners send their kids to school in the south then slope off to the shops?

197660 ▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to thinkaboutit, #1331 of 2184 🔗

Haha i like the idea of that. Border smuggling your kids to school!

197553 ▶▶ stewart, replying to JHuntz, 3, #1332 of 2184 🔗

That is actually hysterically funny.
It really does show how completely full of shit these governments and officials are.

197452 nickbowes, 2, #1333 of 2184 🔗

Despite fears that he was “got at” recently it seems that the legend monkey king Ian Brown is back to his best full blown anti-lockdown rantings on twitter today.

197458 Cheezilla, 16, #1334 of 2184 🔗

Letter to my MP today: Part 1

Dear Jason McCartney
I understand that Kirklees is now under threat of even more ridiculously draconian measures, aka Tier 3.
A picture tells a thousand words. So, please consider what this graph is telling us about Manchester.
comment image
The data from weekly and monthly mandated Secondary Uses Service (SUS) repository for healthcare data in England show a dramatic reduction for respiratory condition admissions compared with what we would normally expect at this time of year.
I don’t have the numbers but I’m sure the situation in Nottingham is similar, yet it’s also under threat. Here’s a story to contemplate:

My son was rushed to hospital with a suspected bleed on the brain, he is 21 but never been in hospital before and has aspergers. The hospital didn’t want to let me in, I demanded they did, lots of managers got involved and doctors. I said “you are not going to stop me from seeing my son”. Me and my husband got to see him and I went back the next day and saw him on the ward.

For the record queens medical centre Nottingham on a Saturday night 3 patients waiting. And 3 being treated, doctors standing around chatting or looking at computer screens. All this hype that they are run off their feet is lies. I walked around the hospital and it was like a ghost town. Even the security guard didn’t want to get involved in my discussions. I asked them “what are you hiding”

One nurse tried to put me off seeing my son on the ward the next day by saying “we have Covid on the ward” I said “what do you mean? You have a patient with Covid on the ward with my son?”. “No no what I meant was it’s everywhere Covid is”.. I replied “well yes I think we are aware of that but that’s not what you said”. I said why aren’t Covid patients treated on a separate ward like the QE in Bham? Her reply “because we don’t have enough patients to warrant opening a ward up just for covid”. I rest my case I said.

Daily deaths in Wales are in low single digits and cases are falling. Daily deaths from Covid peaked at 11 on October 7th and haven’t climbed above single digits since. So why the draconian measures there?
On the other hand, you might be aware that the suicide rate is rocketing – and wait till furlough ends, we ain’t seen nothin’ yet! However, as those figures are published annually, they can be kept hidden till Spring.
People are dying from the withdrawal of medical care by the National Covid-only Service. Prof David Spiegelhalter, Chairman of the Winton Centre for Risk and Evidence Communication at the University of Cambridge, said: “Usually around 300 people die each day in their homes in England and Wales. The latest ONS analysis confirms that even after the peak of the epidemic this has stayed at around 400 a day and shows no sign of declining. That’s one third extra, very few of which are from Covid.”
Manchester has been locked down for months and has obviously been another victim of a casedemic. Get tested: Get locked down!

197461 Cheezilla, 13, #1335 of 2184 🔗

Part 2

We are blatantly being lied to while our social fabric and our local economies are being torn asunder with absolutely no evidence of any positive effects. WHY?
North has been set against South. Cities now against cities. Wales and Scotland against England. So much for the United Kingdom!
The government covid dashboard has just been rejigged yet again to make the numbers even more opaque. So my question is why do the figures have to be manipulated to make it look as if we’re in the midst of a deadly pandemic when simply looking around and talking to people reveals there is no empirical evidence of that. Even if there was a genuine threat back in April. That has long gone, the most vulnerable effectively having been culled by government policy.
In a recent article in the Telegraph, Carl Heneghan (Professor at Nuffield Dept. of Primary Care Health Sciences, University of Oxford), Barry Thomas (Senior Reporting, Analytics and Insights Manager at NHS England and NHS Improvement) and Dr Tom Jefferson (Senior Associate Tutor, University of Oxford) concluded:

“The selective use of data is hindering policymaking. The data is all too often presented in the worst light, which informs no one. We do not understand the reason for this. But without the context of what usually happens – for instance, admissions are half what they normally should be – it is easy to jump to the wrong conclusions.

The Prime Minister said the situation in Manchester is worsening with every passing day. However, cases have decreased for nine days in a row. And yet Manchester is heading into its third month of restrictions: Matt Hancock announced local restrictions as of July 31.

…. The current reporting of data is confusing, incomplete and missing vital components.”

Thank you very much for yet again showing up at the House and trying on our behalf. However, it was very clear from Matt Weaselwords’ demeanour that it’s all just water off a duck’s back. So I repeat: Why are they doing this?
Yours sincerely
xxxx

197465 Mayo, replying to Mayo, -29, #1336 of 2184 🔗

We’ve devoted a lot of attention to the false positive rate of the PCR test on this site – and even though we haven’t run anything new on it recently don’t assume we think the problem has gone away

It should have gone away. We know that False Positives are not a major issue. It’s time Toby dropped this argument. It suggests that sceptics are behind the curve.

197477 ▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to Mayo, 12, #1337 of 2184 🔗

Mayo,
To help those of us who don’t have the time or energy to follow the intricacies of these arguments – could you give a reference or two to support “False Positives are not a major issue”
Thanks

197492 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Andy Riley, 4, #1338 of 2184 🔗

Seconded.

197502 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Andy Riley, -10, #1339 of 2184 🔗

The ONS survey.

Throughout much of the summer the ONS was picking up 0.03% and 0.04% positive cases. This provides a ceiling for the FP rate. If the rate was nearer 1% they’d have picked up 20 times as many cases.

Even now the Positive test rate is only 0.62%. The test performs far better than is generally assumed. It doesn’t. of course, tell us how infectious some one is or how ill they are but that’s a separate matter.

197514 ▶▶▶▶ DeepBlueYonder, replying to Mayo, 7, #1340 of 2184 🔗

So the test does not enable to us determine “how infectious someone is” and that is “not a major issue”?

197818 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to DeepBlueYonder, -3, #1341 of 2184 🔗

I said it was a “separate matter”. But that’s ok 6 people upvoted your in ability to read.

197826 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Mayo, 1, #1342 of 2184 🔗

I agree with your sentiment, but I think you’ve failed to account for the context of the tests. We would need to understand why Tier 1 are showing rates like 2.2 – 3.3% a couple of weeks back while Tier 2 were showing 7% etc. Only when you correct for that can you get an idea of the real operational specificity.

Out of interest, what do you think the real range for operational specificity is? And do you think the type of test, setting, lab, assay used, cycle threshold used etc. would need accounting for to get a real hold on it?

197520 ▶▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Mayo, 11, #1343 of 2184 🔗

Isn’t the inability of the PCR test to distinguish one’s infectiousness or lack thereof the very essence of the false positive debate?

197823 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to jb12, -2, #1344 of 2184 🔗

It detects the presence of the virus. That’s it. A False Positive means a test indicates the virus is present when it isn’t.

The point is more people have the virus NOW than they had in the summer. Quite a few more as it happens.

197829 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Mayo, 1, #1345 of 2184 🔗

Does that suggest it’s seasonal and endemic?

Are you aware of studies that assess the potential for PCR tests to show positive when fragments of RNA from other coronaviruses are present (I’m asking because I’m not and because I’m genuinely interested, rather than as a challenge).

197549 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Mayo, 3, #1346 of 2184 🔗

Would you be able to provide the actual number of tests that were being conducted per day in the summer and the number of resulting positive cases?

I’m a bit sceptical about that 0.03/0.04% figure.

197726 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to stewart, 1, #1347 of 2184 🔗

You should be.

Test and Trace testing numbers up to 30th September (data is weekly, not daily). I’ve collated the data in a more readable spreadsheet (image below).

Data comes from Table 1 from the spreadsheet at this link NHS Test and Trace statistics 28 May to 30 September 2020 data tables on this page here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-test-and-trace-england-and-coronavirus-testing-uk-statistics-24-september-to-30-september-2020
Percentages, especially Pillar 2, are interesting.

197848 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Ceriain, -4, #1348 of 2184 🔗

ONS survey is a random sample and has nothing to do with track & trace.

ONS does not differentiate between those with symptoms and those without.

197832 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to stewart, -4, #1349 of 2184 🔗

You’ll find all weekly spreadsheets at this link.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/datasets/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveydata/2020

There are several tables so you’ll need to find the one which is appropriate.

I’m not sure why you would be sceptical.

197627 ▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Mayo, 4, #1350 of 2184 🔗

‘It doesn’t. of course, tell us how infectious some one is or how ill they are…’

So what’s the point, given that overall all cause mortality is plumb normal, has been since the end of May?

197854 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Tim Bidie, -3, #1351 of 2184 🔗

We can detect what the trend is – and consider the consequences if it continues. e.g. how many hospital admissions would result from a 1000 new positive cases.

197628 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Mayo, 2, #1352 of 2184 🔗

Please can you explain why the percentage of pillar 2 positive tests is three times higher than pillar 1?

197743 ▶▶▶▶▶ DeepBlueYonder, replying to Will, 1, #1353 of 2184 🔗

I wonder if a large number of asymptomatic persons are being tested under Pillar 2, particularly students? I have recently submitted at FOI request to Newcastle City Council, as follows:

“The University of Northumbria have reported that:

‘As of Friday 2 October, we can confirm that we are aware of 770 Northumbria University students who have tested positive for Covid-19 of whom 78 are symptomatic.”

These related to the period 17 September and 1 October at Northumbria’s Newcastle campuses. See: https://www.northumbria.ac.uk/covid19/latest-information/

Generally, the government instructs that only symptomatic persons should be tested:

‘You can only get a free NHS test if at least one of the following applies:

  • you have a high temperature
  • you have a new, continuous cough
  • you’ve lost your sense of smell or taste or it’s changed
  • you’ve been asked to by a local council
  • you’re taking part in a government pilot project’

See: https://www.gov.uk/get-coronavirus-test

Under this Freedom of Information request I would be grateful if you could provide information on the following questions:

(i) Did these 770 tests fall under the scope of “free NHS tests”?

(ii) Were the 692 asymptomatic students tested because they “had been asked to” by Newcastle City Council?

(iii) If so, what was the rationale for testing such very large numbers of asymptomatic persons

(iv) the estimated number of “false positive” tests out of the 770 tests undertaken

197861 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Will, -5, #1354 of 2184 🔗

I haven’t looked but I guess it’s because pillar 2 are targeted (those with symptoms & their contacts) while pillar 1 are routine precautionary tests.

198227 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bill h, replying to Mayo, 1, #1355 of 2184 🔗

The reverse is true Old Bean.

So Sorry

197506 ▶▶ DeepBlueYonder, replying to Mayo, 5, #1356 of 2184 🔗

Could you point to, say, half a dozen peer-reviewed journal articles, published in highly-rated journals, which support the contention that, for the UK, “False Positives are not a major issue.” If not half a dozen, what about just one?

197533 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to DeepBlueYonder, -2, #1357 of 2184 🔗

I was interested to come across a paper Weekly COVID-19 testing with household quarantine and contact tracing is feasible and would probably end the epidemic by Peto et al. in Royal Society Open Science . The paper itself gives little weight to the false positive issue, simply advocating “ a repeat test on the same day to identify false positive tests”
However, it cites previous literature

This was not evaluated in the models of non-pharmaceutical interventions that informed UK Government policy because universal testing was thought to be unfeasible. One modelling team dismissed the idea [ 3 ] and did not include either regular testing or household quarantine in their model [ 4 ]. Another [ 5 ] modelled partially effective quarantine in 50% of households beginning when symptoms appear.

Reference [5], incidentally, if the famous Report 9. However, [3] states

the views put forward by Professor Peto are not shared either by myself nor by a number of other expert scientists working on COVID-19 at LSHTM. There are both practical and scientific flaws in the strategy proposed.

It seems fair to say that “the science” on mass testing is not yet settled.

197867 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to DeepBlueYonder, -3, #1358 of 2184 🔗

See above.

197550 ▶▶ peyrole, replying to Mayo, 4, #1359 of 2184 🔗

You are incorrect. The ONS survey and Pillar 2 use very different testing methods. If ONS overall IFR is at 0.62% and we take 0.8 FPR the Pillar 2 positives are still about 50% false. There is of course great doubt of the validity of ONS surveu numbers and the FPR could be 2.3%, which would increase the false positives.
Are you saying that Yeadon, J Ferguson etc have got this wrong, because I don’t think they have.

197619 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Mayo, 5, #1360 of 2184 🔗

Not seeing the wood for the trees.

In your world: loads of positive tests equals a problem

In my world: overall all cause mortality plumb normal since end of May equals no problem

Our impression is that most data for all countries is in agreement with our interpretation, namely, PCR positives do not correlate to deaths in the future and are therefore meaningless, on their own, to interpret the spread of the virus in terms of potential deaths.’

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/pcr-positives-what-do-they-mean/

198052 ▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Mayo, 1, #1361 of 2184 🔗

No you’ve devoted a lot of time to it .Just like you devoted time the other day to tell us about the New Zealand election and how Trump was going to lose in America .I can’t make out what is the most malignant force on here you or the doom mongers who constantly tell us to give up .All i know is that when push comes to shove and things get heavy your not the sort one would want by their side .

198082 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Mayo, 1, #1362 of 2184 🔗

https://www.clinicalmicrobiologyandinfection.com/article/S1198-743X(20)30614-5/fulltext
“Nucleic acid amplification testing for SARS-CoV-2 is highly specific. Nevertheless, when prevalence is low a significant proportion of initially positive results fail to confirm and confirmatory testing substantially reduces false positive detections. Omitting additional testing in samples with higher prior detection probabilities focuses testing where clinically impactful and minimises delay
 In this world-renowned lab Addenbrookes in low sero prevalence situation almost half of the tests were false positive. And that is a low pressured situation. Pillar 2, a privatized outsourced mass testing is prone to even worse from the risk of contaminating specimen and second rate lab doing the test and umpteen risk of something going wrong in the whole chain. When real cases are going up as of now, less problem with false positive but pillar 2 should be scrapped and only clinical testing should be done apart from intelligent planned sentinel testing.

198193 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Mayo, 1, #1363 of 2184 🔗

It hasn’t gone away. What on earth makes you think it has?
They are still using 40/45 cycles. They are not doing confirmatory repeat tests of high cycle positives.
More testing, more false positives, more daily scare stats.
Just wait until Moonshot…

197468 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #1364 of 2184 🔗

MPs response. I despair!

Dear xxxx,

Thank you for your email and giving me your views, which I have noted.
They are considering Tier 3 for our area due to a growing number of cases, covid-19 hospitalisations and covid-19 deaths. Already this is impacting on other services which will lead to more non-covid deaths. I do not support us going into Tier 3 at this point but if our local figures continue to grow at the rate they are it will become inevitable.

Kind regards,

Jason

197508 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1365 of 2184 🔗

Sounds like a generic C&P response. Send him what is meant by ‘cases’, hospitalisations, and deaths, and how services have been affected since March!!!

198296 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to nocheesegromit, #1366 of 2184 🔗

I did that last week!

197544 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #1367 of 2184 🔗

That is actually an astonishing email.

He is openly declaring that he acknowledges lockdown measures will lead to deaths.
So in essence, this elected politician has decided it is within his power to sacrifice one group of people in order to PRESUMABLY save another group of people.

These people have gone completely and utterly mad and have completely lost touch with the world.

198300 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to stewart, #1368 of 2184 🔗

Note he says “they” are considering. I’m pretty sure he’s against it.

197586 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1369 of 2184 🔗

I think it’s the fact that the NHS are only very,very grudgingly dealing with anything but covid that is impacting on other services and causing non-covid deaths.Another MP who is a complete prat.At least you got a reply,still waiting for my MP,he is about as much use as a eunuch at an orgy though so I suppose I shouldn’t be too surprised.

197617 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Paul, #1370 of 2184 🔗

Find, let Westminster keep the eunuch and we’ll have the orgy.

197475 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #1371 of 2184 🔗

Speaker intervenes in Simon Dolan’s legal fight against lockdown
Lindsay Hoyle declares the case is of ‘constitutional importance’

https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/lockdownlegalchallenge/?utm_source=sendinblue&utm_campaign=Update24092078onJointheLegalChallengetotheUKGovtLockdownOctober202020&utm_medium=email

197485 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #1372 of 2184 🔗

From what I understood from Dolan’s post, it’s not going to be a helpful intervention – he is wanting to protect parliamentary privilege (because they have been so great….)

197496 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, 3, #1373 of 2184 🔗

…. his intervention is all about the narrow issue of protecting Parliamentary privilege, rather than promoting the proper scrutiny of important legisalation. But his intervention shows how important our legal fight is and how seriously it is being taken. The Government could have decided to have the laws looked at and approved if it wished. It hasn’t tried to do so – deliberately – because it does not want Parliament involved.

197476 nocheesegromit, replying to nocheesegromit, #1374 of 2184 🔗

Andy Burnham giving a press conference at 4pm, Doris at 5. ??????

197482 ▶▶ Crazy Times, replying to nocheesegromit, 1, #1375 of 2184 🔗

He’s been reading Sadiq Khan’s playbook

197483 pmdl, replying to pmdl, 8, #1376 of 2184 🔗

As many here pointed out, with cases trending down they can be easily used to justify the lockdown as triumph. But that is not all, they could easily stop recording people in hospital with other cuases who did a positive PCR as a Covid hospital admission. And also just wind down testing to a huge degree and hey presto, no more casedemic. Lockdowns work, welcome to the new Chinese style population control grid, the new normal.

197486 ▶▶ John Smith, replying to pmdl, 13, #1377 of 2184 🔗

This is here to stay.

It will be ended only after direct opposition from the people.

197490 ▶▶▶ pmdl, replying to John Smith, 6, #1378 of 2184 🔗

I agree they have crossed the Rubicon this time

197547 ▶▶ DRW, replying to pmdl, 3, #1379 of 2184 🔗

“Health passports” already being rolled out, first for test history and then for vaccines. Of course the “vaccines” themselves will be no better than nasal spray but a perfect facade for establishing digital IDs.

197491 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 35, #1380 of 2184 🔗

We all know Khan is nuts, but this is something else entirely:

The Mayor of London has called for the 10pm curfew in the city to be scrapped to help restaurants deal with Tier 2 coronavirus restrictions.

IT WAS YOU THAT BEGGED TO BE PUT INTO TIER 2 YOU COMPLETE AND UTTER NUMPTY!

197548 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to A. Contrarian, 10, #1381 of 2184 🔗

Believe it or not there are many people who still hold Khan in god like status in London. If they don’t vote him out next year the city deserves to go into terminal decline.

David Kurten would be a far better Mayor as would just about every other person standing.

197668 ▶▶▶ Templeton, replying to Darryl, 1, #1382 of 2184 🔗

If im not mistaken, people should have had the chance to vote him out this year.

197554 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to A. Contrarian, 10, #1383 of 2184 🔗

You said it best. He’s the reason why London is a ghost town.

Unfortunately there are enough deluded sheep in the capital who will still vote for him.

They will deserve everything they get especially as London’s economy plummets further ala Wile E Coyote falling off a cliff.

198137 ▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Bart Simpson, #1384 of 2184 🔗

Khan is a left wing, virtue signalling Bammie. Why would the average Londoner NOT vote for him?

197613 ▶▶ annie, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1385 of 2184 🔗

Sure he doesn’t want all pubs etc. closed permanently, as Josef Stalin Dripfeed is doing in Wales?

197649 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #1386 of 2184 🔗

London is finished, except as an empty vessel for international money laundering. All other life and culture has been deleted.

197830 ▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to Richard O, 2, #1387 of 2184 🔗

And Premier League football with the various stadiums…er…sound stages for live game broadcasts

197505 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 5, #1388 of 2184 🔗

At 5pm is the dictator going to surrender and say everything back to pre March normality?

197511 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Cecil B, 2, #1389 of 2184 🔗

I live in hope

197513 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Cecil B, 12, #1390 of 2184 🔗

Cecil, wake up. You were sleep talking nonsense again. The Pig Dictator is still there.

197536 ▶▶ Eddy, replying to Cecil B, 3, #1391 of 2184 🔗

He is going to say Manchester is killing the rest of the country.

197537 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Eddy, 2, #1392 of 2184 🔗

And probably everywhere to go to at least Tier 2.

197509 nickbowes, replying to nickbowes, 23, #1393 of 2184 🔗

The Minister of Death, Mengele Hancock wants to roll out testing in schools now. Numbers up – we want more positive cases says the most hated man in Britain !

197517 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to nickbowes, 14, #1394 of 2184 🔗

What a fu*king c*nt!!!

197518 ▶▶ Kev, replying to nickbowes, 8, #1395 of 2184 🔗

He has more than a passing resemblence to Heinrich Himmler

197545 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Kev, 4, #1396 of 2184 🔗

Before or after he swallowed the cyanide capsule?

197611 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1397 of 2184 🔗

Before, just now.
After, soon.
Roll on.

197532 ▶▶ stewart, replying to nickbowes, 7, #1398 of 2184 🔗

It’s like a Blitzkrieg of stupidity

197543 ▶▶ Suzyv, replying to nickbowes, 4, #1399 of 2184 🔗

I realise it isn’t practical for all with work (if you are lucky enough to still be working) but for those who can, time for parents to protect their children’s welfare and boycott sending to school. No to the masks, no to the harmful measures for the young who are not at any risk (can’t hug, can’t sing, can’t face someone outside of a bubble, no touching- can they smile!?), no to freezing the poor kids to death with windows open in Autumn and a most definite no to (false) testing.

197519 Ceriain, replying to Ceriain, 34, #1400 of 2184 🔗

BBC breaking news:

Swedish border force admits it is currently being overwhelmed by the number of packed dinghies arriving on its shores with the occupants seeking asylum…

..from England.

197525 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to Ceriain, 9, #1401 of 2184 🔗

Meanwhile the MSM don’t report much on how 7500 illegal immigrants have entered the UK this year.

197530 ▶▶▶ Eddy, replying to Janice21, 4, #1402 of 2184 🔗

I wonder if they have been tested to boost numbers?

197540 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Janice21, 9, #1403 of 2184 🔗

You mean the ones who pass from France, a safe countries, having first carefully destroyed their documentation?

197667 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Ceriain, #1404 of 2184 🔗

I have felt tempted

197573 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1406 of 2184 🔗

With cases dropping, seems a strange tactic to any rational, sane and normal person:

https://public.tableau.com/profile/phs.covid.19#!/vizhome/COVID-19DailyDashboard_15960160643010/Overview

197584 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Sarigan, 3, #1407 of 2184 🔗

Anything to do with lockdown is a strange tactic to any rational and sane person.

197600 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1408 of 2184 🔗

Must be a lot of insane, irrational and not normal people around then.

My OH has been on the fence but just showed her the Scottish data. She actually gets it now I think.

197784 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to A. Contrarian, #1409 of 2184 🔗

Even if you were of a nervous disposition and any mention of cases had you rattled, with the constant change in measures, you’d have to just say enough is enough

197542 Ceriain, 1, #1410 of 2184 🔗
197551 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, #1411 of 2184 🔗

Anyone know Andy Burnham’s email address?

Seems to be tricky to find online.

197556 Eddy, replying to Eddy, 16, #1413 of 2184 🔗

Well done Manchester. Proud of you. Now let’s get this hoax EXPOSED.

197563 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Eddy, #1414 of 2184 🔗

What’s happened?

197581 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Eddy, 4, #1416 of 2184 🔗

He’s not a sceptic in a way I’d love to see from the political leadership (even a mayor), but I’ll back Burnham on this. We DO need proper parliamentary scrutiny and we DO need to look long and hard at what’s going on. Well, we sceptics don’t, but we definitely need more rebellions.

197571 ▶▶▶ Eddy, replying to nocheesegromit, 4, #1417 of 2184 🔗

Told Gov to fuck off

197579 ▶▶ dickyboy, replying to Eddy, 2, #1418 of 2184 🔗

it might be a start. he’s only quibbling about the money though.

197585 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to dickyboy, 4, #1419 of 2184 🔗

I think that’s fine for now. He sounds focused on the fact lockdown means poverty without support.

They need to hold out from the sceptics point of view as they can be the control case where cases go down, NHS curve is flat and no need for Tier 3.

Thats where its important

197589 ▶▶▶▶ dickyboy, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 3, #1420 of 2184 🔗

yes it could be a start.

197558 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 29, #1421 of 2184 🔗

Do my fellow sceptics think like I do, that if all restrictions were lifted (we wish) and we could all go back to normal that there would be thousands of “hard core” collaborators who would continue to wear their face nappies and social distance for years to come in adoration and respect of the “good old days”?

197561 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Fingerache Philip., 21, #1422 of 2184 🔗

Yes I do,I said as much to my wife yesterday,some people will never feel ‘safe’ without a mask ever again and will treat other humans as infected forever.

197562 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Paul, 8, #1423 of 2184 🔗

Their problem!

197564 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Fingerache Philip., 10, #1424 of 2184 🔗

Yes, but they would become the minority in a short space of time and we can enjoy watching how miserable they are.

197565 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Fingerache Philip., 25, #1425 of 2184 🔗

I believe so.

I can well imagine a situation like Asia where muzzles are a common sight on the street.

Never mind, at least you’ll know who the dickheads are without having to talk to them to find out.

197575 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Mabel Cow, 2, #1426 of 2184 🔗

Well said.

197663 ▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Mabel Cow, 2, #1427 of 2184 🔗

A bit like sleeve or tribal tattoos then.

197566 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #1428 of 2184 🔗

Yep. 100%. The brainwashing runs deep.

197567 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1429 of 2184 🔗

I can see that happening but they will be a minority and seen as “cranks”

197574 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #1430 of 2184 🔗

They are cranks.

197572 ▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to Fingerache Philip., 8, #1431 of 2184 🔗

Until the mask related respiratory problems and impetigo kick in. Or maybe they would suffer in silence – a pleasant thought!

197777 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Andy Riley, 4, #1432 of 2184 🔗

Spoke to a friend today who had a cold a couple of weeks ago and is now stuck with a load of gunky phlegm.
He said he wondered if it was because of wearing a facemask because he doesn’t wash it, just stuffs it back in his pocket.
I suggested that, as he clearly has a bacterial chest infection and the best way to get one of those is by wearing a face nappy, he was probably correct!

197577 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Fingerache Philip., 12, #1433 of 2184 🔗

More than thousands, but I am not overly bothered about that.

The much much more worrying prospect is that many organisations, here and internationally, will continue the nonsense.

A few things I can foresee:

Insurance companies not paying out/demanding extra safety checks
Universities continuing to be much more online than not
QR codes in many venues
Companies demanding health checks, tests, vaccinations
Masks on public transport
Masks in airports and on planes
Health checks, tests, vaccinations mandatory for air travel
Health checks, tests, vaccinations mandatory for education
Health checks, tests, vaccinations mandatory for health care

197588 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Julian, 5, #1434 of 2184 🔗

Indeed. Its a small window now before it becomes systemic. Big things need to happen soon to put the breaks on