2020-11-10

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/11/10/latest-news-189/
Published2020-11-10T03:33:32
Last updated2020-11-11T04:03:47
Scraped2020-12-20T20:18:10
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238361 theanalyst, replying to theanalyst, 8, #1 of 2060 🔗

First!

238362 Ovis, replying to Ovis, #3 of 2060 🔗

Baa!

238474 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to Ovis, 4, #4 of 2060 🔗

At the risk of being down-voted for being off topic (come on, consign me to Mabel Cow’s hall of shame!), what is the current position re the American election? What sources, you who know, can we consult to get behind the BBC/equivalent narrative?

238523 ▶▶▶ Jon G, replying to Ovis, -16, #5 of 2060 🔗

Biden won

238607 ▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Jon G, 4, #6 of 2060 🔗

That’s numberwang!

239395 ▶▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Jon G, 5, #7 of 2060 🔗

Bookies are not so confident. Odds on Trump being next president just dropped from 16/1 to 10/1.

239679 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Jon G, 7, #8 of 2060 🔗

Not yet he hasn’t. The votes are still being counted, and none have yet been certified.
The media might have made the announcement, and the Biden camp might have claimed victory, but the media don’t decide who’s won, and Biden might yet be defeated. He might have won. He might not. My money’s on the latter, ie the Democrats cheated, but he could end up as president if it can’t be turned around legally.

238556 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Ovis, 9, #9 of 2060 🔗

William Barr has authorised DOJ to investigate possible election fraud. Expect lots of Democrat squealing. Just for the record, Gore got 37 days to challenge Bush.

238604 ▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Bugle, 4, #10 of 2060 🔗

Ah yes, and general reporting has picked up senior official resigning in protest at being asked to do his job. Principled, apparently.

238753 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Bugle, 9, #11 of 2060 🔗

Good. They should. Electoral fraud, along with financial corruption of the type we see with the Bidens has always been part of the American political but now the stakes are too big to let it pass. Lyndsey Graham is right when he says that if they let the Dems win off the back of fraud there will never be another GOP President.

238865 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to OKUK, 15, #12 of 2060 🔗

I sit on the representative body of a particular sport at county level. During competitions we have a clear appeals process whereby if one team accuses another of cheating, it will be duly investigated. We don’t just say ‘you’re a sore loser, get over it!’ to the complainant, like the media seems to be doing with Trump.

238647 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Ovis, 11, #13 of 2060 🔗

How can it be off topic to discuss issues Toby himself discusses on the blog?

Not going to accept the judgement of self-appointed topic police on this, I’m afraid.

239045 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark, 9, #14 of 2060 🔗

Especially as the result will affect us all.

239237 ▶▶▶▶▶ Marialta, replying to Cheezilla, 15, #15 of 2060 🔗

Biden said in his speech that he wants all Americans to wear masks. As he wears one outside this is scary. As a possible ‘head of the free world’ his Covid agenda is absolutely relevant to all of us.

238724 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Ovis, 5, #16 of 2060 🔗

Newsmax seems prepared to air count or voting irregularities. Just google on Newsmax.

238739 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Ovis, 9, #17 of 2060 🔗

What sources, you who know, can we consult to get behind the BBC/equivalent narrative?

Mike Adams (naturalnews.com, brighteon.com) gives the Trump side.

Jon Rappoport (nomorefakenews.com) is consistently excellent.

The US msm is akin the bbc I’m afraid.

239001 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Ovis, 7, #18 of 2060 🔗

The election is not decided until the electors (the Electoral College) cast their votes, and that does not happen until January. By the way, the electors (strange as it sounds) are not delegates; they can cast their votes as they see fit.

I trust the above is sufficiently non-BBC enough.

239086 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #19 of 2060 🔗

I also believe the state senates can nominate and direct the electors?

I use this site as a ticker type guide to counter the BBC wokepedo narrative:

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/breaking-exclusive-system-glitch-also-uncovered-wisconsin-reversal-19032-votes-removes-lead-joe-biden/

239192 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Nessimmersion, 2, #20 of 2060 🔗

I adopt the methods of historians: the critical analysis and evaluation of primary sources in preference to received opinion.

239684 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Ovis, 2, #21 of 2060 🔗

Check out Tim Pool, Steve Turley, Steve Crowder, Glenn Beck on YouTube.

239792 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Ovis, 4, #22 of 2060 🔗

Scott Adams is pretty good on this. His case for Democrat fraud being a nailed-on certainty is this:
(a) Most Democrats believe that Trump is literally Hitler
(b) If you had a chance to remove Hitler from power, but it involved cheating or fraud, you’d do it, wouldn’t you?

It only needs a small proportion of wokesters/Democrats/Leftists to act on this noble impulse and it will have happened.

P.S. Weirdly, TDS exists in this sceptics’ forum – an oxymoron!

240379 ▶▶▶ Mark Tinker, replying to Ovis, #23 of 2060 🔗

I find Scott Adams (the Dilbert guy) very insightful. He has a daily podcast/YouTube.

238363 Judy Watson, replying to Judy Watson, #24 of 2060 🔗

third – due to pegging out the washing

238421 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Judy Watson, #25 of 2060 🔗

So you pegged out because you were reaching for the line? Confusing!

238560 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to OKUK, #26 of 2060 🔗

In the dark?

239235 ▶▶▶ Judy Watson, replying to OKUK, 4, #27 of 2060 🔗

No I have not ‘pegged it’ I was pegging out the washing. since then I have been to the bank, the beach and a couple of bars.

Cheers hic, hic

PS good life here – no anti-social distancing, can sit at the bar have a drink and a fag at the same time. Got a motorbike ‘taxi’ from the beach to my house – no helmet or face mask needed. Good ‘innit?

238364 helen, replying to helen, 23, #28 of 2060 🔗

Lawyers condemn the massive violations of law and order by Corona measures
Published on November 7, 2020 by VG. CORONA TRANSITION

In an open letter, the “Lawyers for Enlightenment” doubt the constitutionality of measures such as quarantine and compulsory masks for the entire population.
In an open letter, the German organization “Anwälte für Aufklärung” points out massive violations of the law by the politically ordered corona measures. Corona Transition publishes excerpts below. You can download the entire letter as a PDF file or have it read aloud in a video.

“We are a group of lawyers and are very concerned about our constitutional state. When we were admitted to the bar, we swore to uphold the constitutional order and conscientiously fulfill the duties of a lawyer. We therefore feel an urgent obligation to point out the gross unconstitutionality of the Corona measures and to call on politicians and the courts to reconsider the rights and values of our Basic Law.
[…]
Epidemic of national importance without sound scientific justification

Since March 2020, we have been experiencing the most massive restrictions on fundamental rights since the Federal Republic of Germany came into existence. The reason for this is the SARS-Cov2 virus, which caused the German parliament to declare an ‘epidemic of national importance’ in March 2020 with regard to the Infection Protection Act (IfSG) and to maintain this until today. However, § 5 IfSG does not contain a definition of the term ‘epidemic’ or the prerequisites for determining an ‘epidemic of national importance’. It is therefore not comprehensible, on the basis which medical and scientific data such an ‘epidemic’ was determined by the Bundestag.
[…]
In view of the enormous economic, social and medical consequences of the lockdown in spring, we consider the ‘determination of an epidemic of national importance’ to be unconstitutional due to the lack of scientific justification and consideration. In any case, the claim of an ‘epidemic’ does not result from the mortality rate in Germany, which according to the death statistics of the Federal Statistical Office from January to mid-March 2020 was comparable to the year 2019; in the weeks from February 16 to March 15, the death rate was even lower.

So it is proven that in the weeks before the lockdown no more people died than in the previous year! Even after that there was no excess mortality.

Nevertheless, since March 2020, citizens and all companies and institutions in Germany have been restricted in their basic rights in an unprecedented way by the corona regulations of all federal states. These measures are based on §§ 28, 32 IfSG. A closer look at this law and the history of medicine shows, however, that the Infection Protection Act does not provide a legal basis for such drastic restrictions on the healthy population.

The Infection Protection Act obliges the locally responsible health authorities to carefully identify, detect and monitor communicable diseases.Only then may the necessary protective measures be taken, but only in relation to sick people, those suspected of having the disease, those suspected of infection or those who have dropped out. The Infection Protection Act does not permit nationwide measures to be taken against 99.9% of the healthy population.

In particular, the Infection Protection Act does not provide for quarantine of healthy people. Only people suffering from pneumonic plague or haemorrhagic fever must be isolated. The Infection Protection Act also does not provide for an obligation to wear masks by almost the entire healthy population (99.99 percent). Nor does it provide for the closure of stores, schools, kindergartens, sports facilities or cultural institutions that do not pose a health risk.

continued…

238430 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to helen, 3, #29 of 2060 🔗

Pretty much like our Public Health Act 1984

238365 helen, 13, #30 of 2060 🔗

[…]

Unconstitutionality of the Corona measures

The Corona Ordinances issued by the state governments almost every week are unconstitutional; the second lockdown since November 2, 2020 is grossly unconstitutional and violates fundamental rights.

This is because the state governments are expressly not authorized to impose such massive restrictions on fundamental rights. The Infection Protection Act alone does not provide a sufficient legal basis for nationwide measures. Furthermore, due to the separation of powers, such far-reaching measures are generally subject to the so-called parliamentary reservation. This means that the legislator itself (i.e. the Bundestag or the state parliaments) would have to pass corresponding laws and not the governments may act on the basis of ordinances. However, the Basic Law also imposes considerable limits in this respect and prohibits the paralysis of society and the economy both nationally and regionally. For even in the event of war, which is not the case here, the Basic Law should not be suspended as fundamentally as we are experiencing for the first time, Article 115 a ff. of the Basic Law. Also the Bundestag may therefore not decide such measures! »

(20 min)

Source:

Open letter of the lawyers for clarification from 5.11.2020 – 5 November 2020

238366 NorthumbrianNomad, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 41, #31 of 2060 🔗

I’ve snapped. I’m done.

This fucking Starbucks is playing the fucking godawful braindead Christmas playlist. After all that’s happened this year, everything that has been destroyed and inflicted, we’re still supposed to tap our fucking toes to the same old bloody hackneyed saccharin crap and skip happily off to spend spend spend on stuff nobody needs or wants in the name of the Baby Bloody Jesus IN NOVEMBER. Having a wonderful Christmastime with sleigh bells ringing MelekalikiFUCK YOU.

(Also THIS IS A BUDDHIST COUNTRY. And LET IT SNOW LET IT SNOW LET IT SNOW? It’s 33ºC.)

238367 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 20, #32 of 2060 🔗

Thank God. A baby just came in and started screaming. I wish there were two of them, one on either side of me, like noise-cancelling loudspeakers.

238379 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 14, #33 of 2060 🔗

Jingle Bell Rock. The most idiotic of them all. Snowin’ and blowin’ up bushels of fun/ Now the jingle hop has begun […] Giddy-up jingle horse, pick up your feet/ Jingle around the clock/ Mix and a-mingle in the jinglin’ feet/ That’s the jingle bell rock.

John, 11:35 (King James Version)

238751 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 11, #34 of 2060 🔗

So, Bah humbug , NN ? 🙂 🙂

(We had Noddy Fucking Holder blaring out in the garden centre, days before Bonfire Night. Then they wanted a postcode before they’d sell me fireworks. SW1A 1AA as usual.).

238893 ▶▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 14, #35 of 2060 🔗

And lo, it came to pass that Noddy of the tribe of Holder came out of the land of Slade and was heard throughout the kingdom of Home Bargains and of B&M Homewares, and enquired of his disciples, ‘art thou hanging up thy stocking on the wall? For, verily, it is the time that every Santa hath a ball.’ And his disciples were loth, and there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth’ (St Asda, 12:15, Authorised Version).

239103 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 6, #36 of 2060 🔗

Now you’re giving everyone here really horrible earworms.
I’d hate to be your enemy!

238401 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 14, #37 of 2060 🔗

Said it before and I’ll keep saying it:Christmas spoils the Winter.

238370 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 7, #38 of 2060 🔗

Our City council have put up the usual Xmas street decorations in the city centre ready for the big day which commences Late Night Christmas Shopping on the last Thursday in November 🤔 .

My smaller high street shops are mostly independents and each has a permanent metal sconce at first floor level set at 45 degrees in which to place a modest 🎄 Christmas tree 🎄 with a few multicoloured lightbulbs which look a lot more Xmasy than Councils stark shiney ❄ white ones. ❄
I doubt if many will bother this year.

238375 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to karenovirus, 3, #39 of 2060 🔗

Are those metal sconces strong enough to function as gibbets?

238380 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 5, #40 of 2060 🔗

Oh yes but they used the tower of the medieval Parish Church to string up the priest in the English Civil War.

238383 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 3, #41 of 2060 🔗

Hang the Politburo from the Christmas tree! Now that really would be a festive decoration.

238675 ▶▶▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to annie, 1, #42 of 2060 🔗

Not-so-Strange Fruit??

239143 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Chris John, 2, #43 of 2060 🔗

A strange and bitter crop.

238454 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 16, #44 of 2060 🔗

Isn’t ‘let it snow’ a rather Buddhist sentiment? – if understood less as a pseudo-divine fiat and more as an acceptance of the inevitability of weather?

For the wise woman does not bewail the flakes, but digs out her special thick socks.

238659 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Alethea, 7, #45 of 2060 🔗

Agreed, although if it snowed here the entire country would grind to a halt. I was once on top of Thailand’s highest mountain in January and there was a slight touch of frost. I’m not exaggerating: coaches were lined up by the roadside and people were crowding in to photograph grass with a couple of microscopic ice crystals on it.

239707 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Alethea, 1, #46 of 2060 🔗

Very good Alethea …

238570 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 4, #47 of 2060 🔗

Haha…I was in Thailand for Christmas last year and I found that very strange indeed. The had a Winter wonderland setup with an ice grotto at Siam Paragon…it was 38 Degrees C!! My wife used to live there and she said that after a while you get used to it but for my daughter it was fascinating!!

238660 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Thomas_E, 3, #48 of 2060 🔗

It’s any excuse for a party in Thailand, which is fair enough, I suppose. They have three New Years here – Thai, Chinese and the one the Christians stole from the Romans and then moved from March to January. I suppose that must be why time here seems to go so fast…

238369 Sceptic Hank, replying to Sceptic Hank, 126, #49 of 2060 🔗

Like Toby and James Delingpole (London Calling), I have a severe case of “Boris Derangement Syndrome”.

A year ago, I thought there was something magical about him. His wit, common sense, and ambition to steer the UK into an exciting, entrepreneurial future was infectious. He was someone we could relate to. Someone normal, with a fabulous sense of humour, who could stand up to EU bullies, poke fun at convention, and generally make life more fun.

I can’t even look at him now, I never watch the news, I don’t watch any of his announcements.  Hell hath no fury as a former fan scorned.

As James Delingpole said, he truly is a ‘failed’ Prime Minister. 🙁

238373 ▶▶ Andrea Salford, replying to Sceptic Hank, 72, #50 of 2060 🔗

I hear you, can’t watch him, my blood would boil too much. Had such high hopes at the start of the year. All gone. My in-laws encouraged me to watch his Party Conference Speech ‘Old Boris is back’ they said….which I found shocking since he’s had us locked up (Manchester) since the end of July (and I’ve been an LS since the start of March). Any way I broke my promise to myself and watched it. Absolutely aghast…..all that Churchill/baffoonery that had been so appealing to Get Brexit Done was now chunnering on about wind and 2030…..like ‘Do you know what you’ve done to us the last 7 months? What happened to liberty?’
I think he’s just a dead man walking now, like a hostage sent out to read a script. So sad…..for us.

238376 ▶▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to Andrea Salford, 58, #51 of 2060 🔗

I’m starting to understand why so called Remainers saw him as a complete buffoon. Now that the veil is lifted…

238497 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Sceptic Hank, 29, #52 of 2060 🔗

Boris was always an unprincipled buffoon and he only jumped on the Brexit bandwagon as way of getting himself to the top of the greasy pole.

238565 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Rowan, 9, #53 of 2060 🔗

It’s proving to be rather greasier than he thought. Mind you, the same could be said of him.

238585 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Rowan, 13, #54 of 2060 🔗

I might be wrong here, but I think in his biography of Churchill, Johnson claims Churchill latched on to anti-appeasement as a way of getting in to power. And others, as does Rowan above, have speculated that Johnson saw Brexit as his pass in to power.

Well, he’s not principled in his private life why should we expect it in his public life?

238669 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #55 of 2060 🔗

Quite.

239285 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Derek Toyne, replying to Ned of the Hills, 5, #56 of 2060 🔗

Hello,
I believe when Churchill got re-elected in 1951 the first thing he would tell new MPs is don’t trust bankers. This is because in 1925 he was chancellor and the bankers instructed him to put the UK back on the gold standard. This led to the general strike and the UK going into recession. Churchill lost his job and went into the political wilderness until he re-surface in the thirties before WWII. I believe Boris is out of his depth when it comes to covid and would do himself and the country a great service if he consulted more widely.

239582 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Andrea Salford, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #57 of 2060 🔗

I don’t have to like the driver to get on the bus going where I want to go. Same with politics…..guess I was just naive to believe Boris now that we’re hijacked and on our way to gawd knows where.

238932 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Rowan, 3, #58 of 2060 🔗

i hope he slides down that greasy pole quickly!

240035 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Sue, 1, #59 of 2060 🔗

Oh yes please.

238930 ▶▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Sceptic Hank, 22, #60 of 2060 🔗

I always thought the ‘boris is a buffoon’ thing was just from bitter lefties who didn’t understand it was all part of the act and that underneath he was a highly intelligent, capable man (he was, after all, a King’s Scholar at Eton, won a scholarship to Oxford and has written quite a lot of indepth historical books). I still think that leftie verdict was largely motivated by snobbery and jealousy. But it’s become clear that although he may be intelligent, he seems to have little or no regard for traditional English common-law freedoms, which is highly worrying.

239152 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cranmer, 6, #61 of 2060 🔗

I always thought the buffoonery was an act to conceal his shallowness.

239788 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #62 of 2060 🔗

Being unable to mask out global monopoly cartel agenda, I can only see Boris as groomed for his part.
Within the agenda, it is impossible to lie to the outsiders, for they are unable to face the truth and must needs be fed whatever stories or noble lies operate their programming.
I have seen it openly stated that USA never interferes with anyone else’s elections because the USA is the protector of Democracy.
This signature is characteristic.
The underlying ‘truth’ may perhaps be expressed as ‘do you want to eat, or be meat?’.
H.G Wells wrote the Time Machine to this effect.
That ‘eating’ doesn’t have to be literal isn’t the point, The matrix used the metaphor of human batteries as energy supply to a machine ‘intelligence’. the level of life at which predatory domination operates is the physical identification in permanent activation of fight-flight mode – also known as the reptilian brain – and very close to the idea of ‘pscho-pathy’ – for it can use the social aspect to mask in and manipulate by.

I don’t try to weave sanity into an insane script – but if I had to imagine a basis to explain why and how the politicians are acting as they are it has to be some kind of terrorism, softened with promises of personal reward and backed by the power of a global protection racket.

This does not mean that they are not also inept, but that ineptitude is a symptom of not being in their right minds. To be sure they are not terrified of the novel virus, that statistically reveals itself more safe and effective than any vaccine – in my humble opinion. (Though studies to ascertain the truth of this will not be funded, published or allowed into open discussion).

Fear operates a ‘Hidden Hand’ of mistaken self-interest. Control is its symptom. Pride set up the conditions for the fall.

239892 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ helen, replying to Binra, 1, #63 of 2060 🔗

Very interesting analysis Binra…

I keep reading it over but I’m still not sure exactly what you mean.

Do you mean that you think that some cabal (nation or group) has the politicians of all western governments forced into a position of fear while bribing them to do their bidding. Although it appears from the outside that they are either corrupt (profiteering from covid contracts etc) or incompetent..

If I am right about your analysis then what do you think they are afraid of and how do you think this could be pulled off in practical terms?

I totally agree with you … its impossible to lie. etc.. and that it will always be conjecture ..we will never ever know the truth.

239823 ▶▶▶▶▶ Eve, replying to Cranmer, 2, #64 of 2060 🔗

He might be intellectually ‘intelligent’ but he lacks common sense and is ungrounded.

238402 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Sceptic Hank, 25, #65 of 2060 🔗

Was,is and will always be an opportunist liar.

238470 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Sceptic Hank, 14, #66 of 2060 🔗

Yep pretty much my feeling…except I suppose I retain a certain fascination as to what’s going through his mind as he steers the ship of state on to the rocks.

238506 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to OKUK, 20, #67 of 2060 🔗

Same here. Why is he doing it, and how does he cope with the knowledge that he is ruining his own children’s, relatives’ and friends’ lives, too?

238941 ▶▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Barney McGrew, 12, #68 of 2060 🔗

We tend to forget this is a global phenomenon. Why are any of them doing it?

239072 ▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Barney McGrew, 9, #69 of 2060 🔗

Perhaps they are all destined to inhabit the magic bubble after the culling is complete and the self-styled elite have the remainder of the population slaving for them until they reach 45 years of age when the DNR hammer kicks in.

238491 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Sceptic Hank, 33, #70 of 2060 🔗

How old do you have to be to know that you can never trust a politician. I voted leave, but always thought that Boris was a lying brain-dead twat. I have not been disappointed.

238516 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Rowan, 26, #71 of 2060 🔗

Sam Harris in a recent podcast seems to have only now had the revelation that many people voted for Trump not because they like him or respect him, but that he is the only thing that can stop postpone the forces of wokeness and, ultimately, communism from prevailing in their country.

238542 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Barney McGrew, 12, #72 of 2060 🔗

Trump just might fit that description, but Boris doesn’t and never will.

240003 ▶▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #73 of 2060 🔗

I never vote but if I was an American this would have been my first foray into the booth, and Trump would have been my pick. I see the other choice as ushering in the destruction of the USA…and a Trump win would have had lefties fainting in the street and a collective wailing cry would have been audible coast to coast. Darn I really wanted wokies losing their minds again!

238625 ▶▶▶ LS99, replying to Rowan, 16, #74 of 2060 🔗

I voted leave but thought he was a chancer who said what was expedient, one of those sorts who tells you what you want to hear. He has wildly exceeded even my low opinion of his character.

240037 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to LS99, #75 of 2060 🔗

Snap.

239809 ▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Rowan, 1, #76 of 2060 🔗

Boris played his part of the brexit psyop.
‘Brexit’ masked as a bid for regaining a sense of freedom and sovereignty in our own decision making but never had any such intent – but rather to draw it out to be cancelled, eradicated, or immunised against.
The intent is to undermine and destroy society as the basis for remaking a new one – with the new toolset that Boris was mouthpieced to announce on his first speech to the UN.
The narratives are sideshow to the actual rollout of regulatory instruments and structures that will make the lockdown and masking, conditional to human existence, along with removal of any checks or balances against being discarded, experimented on or enslaved.

240179 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Rowan, #77 of 2060 🔗

I always knew he was calculating and that he could equally have backed Remain if he’d thought it would get him to the top job. But on the other hand I thought – naively it seems – he truly understood the value of liberty, the chain of history and our marvellous dynamic culture. I also thought he understood that not to be optimistic is to suffer a kind of death in life. It seems I was totally wrong about him.

238624 ▶▶ Hieronimusb, replying to Sceptic Hank, 5, #78 of 2060 🔗

Boris is a paradox (same as a pair of geese but it can swim): a complete arse with no bottom.

238683 ▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to Hieronimusb, 3, #79 of 2060 🔗

I have him nailed on as a copper bottomed arse.

238762 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Hieronimusb, 4, #80 of 2060 🔗

Geese can swim. 🙂

238990 ▶▶▶▶ Hieronimusb, replying to JohnB, 1, #81 of 2060 🔗

Of course they do, just a bit of Dublin humour, but Boris.. 😉

239306 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Hieronimusb, 1, #82 of 2060 🔗

Haven’t been to Dublin for decades – apologies.

239768 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to JohnB, #83 of 2060 🔗

I’ve never been, but I am reliably informed that it’s a dump.

238717 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Sceptic Hank, 3, #84 of 2060 🔗

I can’t understand how you could ever have thought that this man was a serious politician.

239829 ▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #85 of 2060 🔗

Crisis actors get the job these days. The casting manager puts out the image that is optimal for its part to play. Image operates subliminally. An Internet of data is profiled to select the strategies by which to play the crowd. By the time we recognise the ruse – they are several steps ahead – because we think it can make sense or be understood, and they use that to play our themes back to us.

A terror tactic in dirty wars is to hide explosives and a trip to a detonator in a toy, a teddy bear or some fluffy haired funny man. Appearances can be deceits.

238923 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Sceptic Hank, 8, #86 of 2060 🔗

exactly my sentiments also – cannot watch or listen to him at all – he’s so ingratiating patronising and can just see through the bumbling baffoonery – it’s embarrassing to have him as our PM.

239669 ▶▶ PWL, replying to Sceptic Hank, #87 of 2060 🔗

Last year, you would have dismissed something like this as nonsense (as you might even would still):

A brief history of recent elections leading to the collective stupidity of 2017: a gibbering imbecility about to be repeated

239947 ▶▶ Hannahbanana, replying to Sceptic Hank, 5, #88 of 2060 🔗

What I don’t understand is how the people I know who would openly denigrate Boris, and label him as a self serving, arrogant, liar, cheater etc etc. seem to be the people who have most warmly embraced lockdown rules and regulations. I liked Boris, voted for him, but now I see him how these others did. Does this mean they have all changed their minds and decided he should be trusted after all?

240013 ▶▶ Montag Smith, replying to Sceptic Hank, 2, #89 of 2060 🔗

I never understood why people didn’t see Johnson for what he is: uncaring, dishonest, slippery, and basically full of shit. While I’m a Brexit supporter I never had any illusions that he’s a thoroughly dodgy person.

238371 nat, replying to nat, 25, #90 of 2060 🔗

Yesterday another reader posted an incoherent, rabid article by the Daily Mail about the government’s drive to tackle anti-vaxxer propaganda spread online by anyone concerned about a rushed vaccine the Russians . It makes a little more sense in the context of today’s vaccine news.

I thought it worth reposting a couple of exerpts here –
A government source told the Times: ‘GCHQ has been told to take out antivaxers online and on social media. There are ways they have used (sic) to monitor and disrupt terrorist propaganda…
As well as the new GCHQ drive, a secretive army unit specialising in information warfare is also thought to be involved in countering fake narratives about the coronavirus.
General Sir Nick Carter, the chief of the defence staff, has confirmed that the 77 Brigade is ‘helping to quash rumours about misinformation but also to counter disinformation’

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8927865/GCHQ-spies-launch-cyber-counter-attack-against-anti-vaccine-propaganda-spread-Russia.html

A very similar article appeared in The Times. These people are running the country?

238374 ▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to nat, 39, #91 of 2060 🔗

I suspect that ‘misinformation’ will be anything that contradicts the official line, even if it’s true

238399 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to nat, 25, #92 of 2060 🔗

Daily Mail commenters not buying it.
Overwhelmingly sceptical about covid/lockdown, the vaccine and that the Russians are trying to manipulate us.

238481 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to karenovirus, 17, #93 of 2060 🔗

Yes the Russian narrative really is getting very tired.

239771 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to nat, 2, #94 of 2060 🔗

That narrative always stank.

238562 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to karenovirus, 14, #95 of 2060 🔗

They sound like a broken record every time they pull out the Russia card.

Mind you even in the mid to late 19th century they also pulled the Russia card (apart from the French one) constantly especially when it came to India so there seems to be nothing new here.

238768 ▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #96 of 2060 🔗

Yes, at least they are predictable, it makes it easy to spot their manoeuvres.

239772 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to nat, 1, #97 of 2060 🔗

That’s MI6 for you!

238500 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to nat, 60, #98 of 2060 🔗

I thought this was a great quotable comment in the DM:

Imagine a virus so deadly, you need a test to see if you have it. Imagine a vaccine so safe and effective you have to threaten and force people to take it. Imagine a product so safe that the manufacturers have to be exempt from prosecution for all the harm their product will cause?

238738 ▶▶▶ JamesDrebin, replying to Basileus, 11, #99 of 2060 🔗

That’s a winner of a comment there. Sarcastic incisive contempt is the best way to communicate this madness.

238766 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to Basileus, 7, #100 of 2060 🔗

Yes I posted that same comment here yesterday.

238521 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to nat, 23, #101 of 2060 🔗

Yes indeed, the utterly corrupt UK government is now trying to foist an unneeded and hardly tested experimental vaccine on healthy people. Vaccines tend not to work on the old and the sick, so that is another no no. The government in its benign wisdom wants to limit debate on this half-arsed project by employing the Army’s 77th Brigade, which knows less about vaccines than my big toe. Behind the Pfizer vaccine you will find the usual suspect, that is the eugenicist and depopulation enthusiast, Bill Gates who has backed every Covid vaccine that’s going, so he just can’t lose. Those who will volunteer for any of these ultra dodgy Covid-19 vaccines must have a lot of empty space between their ears. You could hardly make this stuff up.

238569 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to nat, 6, #102 of 2060 🔗

Being told what to think at our own expense. No mention of the Chinese though?

239080 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to nat, 8, #103 of 2060 🔗

“These people are running the country?”

Just remove the question mark.

239164 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to nat, 3, #104 of 2060 🔗
238372 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 29, #105 of 2060 🔗

No double standards please

Top of the list for the vaccine are the elderly in care homes

This is somewhat at odds with how this group was treated in March when they were sacrificed in their thousands to save the NHS

So come on, let’s save the NHS and vaccinate all the NHS staff first

Obviously any NHS staff member who refuses to save the NHS by declining to be vaccinated would have their contract terminated

238378 ▶▶ nat, replying to Cecil B, 34, #106 of 2060 🔗

Why not start with our politicians since they are so keen on it ?

238381 ▶▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to nat, 23, #107 of 2060 🔗

They have sacrificed so much for us already. The least we can do is allow them to take it first.

238907 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Sceptic Hank, 4, #108 of 2060 🔗

Why do you think Boris jumped out to say it was still very very early days. They don’t want to take it either.

239140 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to stewart, #109 of 2060 🔗

Agree, they would never take the risk.

239151 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Sceptic Hank, 1, #110 of 2060 🔗

You go first. No, you go first. No, thank you.

238382 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to nat, 14, #111 of 2060 🔗

Catherine the Great was an advocate of variolation, the precursor to vaccination, involving inoculation with tiny quantities of actual live smallpox from a human sufferer. She invited Thomas Dimsdale, an English physician, to Russia to variolate herself, her son and 140 members of the Russian Imperial court to demonstrate the technique before advocating its use for the Russian population. Just in case things didn’t go well, she arranged that an armed convoy of carriages should stand by to get Dimsdale out of the country safely. It went well.
If (a large “if”) only a good absolute monarch could be guaranteed, enlightened absolutism would be the ideal form of government.

239912 ▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, #112 of 2060 🔗

Yes – enforce the disease under optimised conditions so as to then have immunity.
Very many of the aristocratic class or wealthy who paid for this prophylactic also paid with their lives.

Napoleon took minute doses of poison as a precautionary to boost against being poisoned. Mercury being named as one. This practice was not uncommon and the cumulative effects of neurotoxins wasn’t appreciate – or in the case of treatments for herpes/syphilis was considered the lesser evil.
While people believe in the saving toxin as the lesser evil, they will assign its symptoms to the greater evil they think they are combatting or being protected against.
If goodness were guaranteed, we would not need even an ideal government.
But then freedom would not exist and the Good would be as meaningless as a robotic compliance.

Love is key.

238410 ▶▶▶ steph, replying to nat, 10, #113 of 2060 🔗

All except the ones who voted against the second lockdown. Now that *would* be just.

238445 ▶▶▶▶ steph, replying to steph, 6, #114 of 2060 🔗

On second thoughts I retract that. Nobody should be compelled.

238489 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to nat, 6, #115 of 2060 🔗

They will be given saline.

238596 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Will, 2, #116 of 2060 🔗

Almost certainly.

239720 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Will, 1, #117 of 2060 🔗

Then it should be done by an “anti-vaxxer” who has double-checked that its not just saline first.

240266 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Lms23, #118 of 2060 🔗

Yes it should, but it won’t.

239898 ▶▶▶ Binra, replying to nat, #119 of 2060 🔗

Insofar as vaccines are ‘safe and effective’, they are vastly more so for those with robust and resilient health.

It may have been that most of those assigned to dying of ‘covid’ succumbed at end of life to complications arising from respiratory disease – COMPOUNDED by isolating, masked and inadequate or misguided treatment – that included denial of the most basic human right to the company of their family or loved ones.
About 90% of the first wave of deaths in UK / Ireland were patients deemed too frail to transport to ICU.

If vaccinating for flu in the very old has huge health benefit – beyond mere assertion and belief, how would we know?

There are those who see the vaccine as saviour, and others see it as a trojan horse that undermines immune function under the promise to boost your weakness.

The Vaccine market bubble may or may not produce anything beyond research owned by its funders in the biotech field and the means to leverage biosecurity status along with carbon footprints, and no doubt social credit for compliance.

“Why in all this time have you NOT reported anyone for breach of the rules on which our collective security depends!”

There will be no hiding place in an Internment of Things, and those who sell out on their fellow beings seek credits in hope of a privileged or mitigated system status. No one is envisioning a future apart from an attempt to escaping the past or eradicating it as if to thereby make a clean start – from WHAT exactly?

Why should destroying an evil automatically result in the Good?
Destruction cannot create anything.

238404 ▶▶ Suzyv, replying to Cecil B, 25, #120 of 2060 🔗

It was only about 10 days ago that the headlines were that the best that could be attained with a vaccine was to reduce some symptoms in some people however it would be ineffective for the elderly. And yet here we are now with a ground breaking 90% effective vaccine a matter of days later (and straight after US election). Hmm. And since when has there ever been an effective vaccine for a respiratory virus? The flu, between 15-50% at most. Sit back and watch, how long will it be before there are adverse side effects I wonder?

238520 ▶▶▶ Llamasaurus Rex, replying to Suzyv, 9, #121 of 2060 🔗

Stinks, doesn’t it? Waffle from dePiffle.

238534 ▶▶▶ Van Allen, replying to Suzyv, 8, #122 of 2060 🔗

Your first sentence sums up exactly what this vaccine achieves. The trial involved circa 50k participants, roughly half given the 2 dose vaccine and the rest placebo. Of these 94 received a positive PCR result PLUS at least one symptom. (Note the figures for just positive PCR are not forthcoming despite the fact that we are lead to believe that asymptomatics can pass it on.) Of the 94 only 9 had received the vaccine 85 a placebo. As far as I can see it has not been disclosed whether anyone died/was seriously/moderately ill so it is possible/probable that everyone had mild symptoms only. So the conclusion must be that they had reduced the chance of a mild symptom eg headache by 90% from 85 to 9.

238594 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Van Allen, 4, #123 of 2060 🔗

Assuming that the risk of infection was equal in both groups. Lots of other variables, after all.

238696 ▶▶▶▶ The Diplomat, replying to Van Allen, 5, #124 of 2060 🔗

If half of the 43,538 received the placebo and only 85 developed sysmptoms then 99.6% of those that took the placebo didn’t develop symptoms. I might take my chances with the salty water rather than the vaccine at this stage! Timing of the press release astonishing.

239277 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to The Diplomat, 2, #125 of 2060 🔗

There’s no reason to take the vaccine, it won’t work on the old and the young have no need of it.

239813 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ LS99, replying to Rowan, 1, #126 of 2060 🔗

Succinct and correct.

239065 ▶▶▶▶ right2question, replying to Van Allen, 5, #127 of 2060 🔗

does anyone know what pfizer used as placebo one of the tricks they use is to use another vaccine or one of the adjuvants such as aluminium. the man in brazil who died on another trial had received a placebo as far as i know but that was not saline, it was the meningococcal vaccine.

239275 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to right2question, 3, #128 of 2060 🔗

It will be another vaccine as you say and yes that is not a true placebo.

239783 ▶▶▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to Van Allen, 1, #129 of 2060 🔗

As long as the sheep believe it works and it brings an end to the bloody muzzles and the ghastly ‘social distancing’ it will be good enough for me.

238961 ▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Suzyv, 11, #130 of 2060 🔗

A vaccine is just a monetised version of lockdown.
If Covid goes away on its own, hey presto, the vaccine works.
If Covid doesn’t go away, oh dear, it’s mutated, and we need another vaccine.
Repeat ad infinitum.

238407 ▶▶ steph, replying to Cecil B, 26, #131 of 2060 🔗

Please no. I keep on saying my son was an ICU doctor throughout all of the first (only) wave. He worked damned hard and at the start I was terrified for him. He seems to be immune. His wife, also a doctor, was not and caught Covid-19. She took quite some time to recover and he still did not catch it from her. I don’t see why they should be punished now by being guinea pigs for this vaccine. I won’t take it, you won’t take it and neither should they.

238432 ▶▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to steph, 13, #132 of 2060 🔗

Yes I agree. It’s as nasty as the people saying civil servants and any public sector workers should be forced to have it. Some people on here as as blinded by MSM as anyone else – being a skeptic and being a public sector worker are by no means mutually exclusive!
How about we just let people choose if they want it or not? It doesn’t really matter which demographics you choose to start with because the most important thing is it will give us HERD IMMUNITY. I would suggest that the best places to start though would be areas of the country that have so far been untouched eg Cornwall as they will have the lowest levels of natural immunity in the population.

238440 ▶▶▶▶ steph, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, 19, #133 of 2060 🔗

Thank you. It must be entirely voluntary. I read enough elsewhere of people desperate to get to the head of the queue for the vaccine. All information must be presented clearly and truthfully and if they want to go ahead then let them.
Let’s face it, it could be a totally safe (in as much as any pharmaceutical intervention can be) and moderately effective vaccine. We just don’t know yet so fully informed consent is the order of the day.
I read other fora including a frequent flyer one where almost nobody sees any possible downside at all. They just want to get back up in the air. Let the make that choice.

238504 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to steph, 23, #134 of 2060 🔗

100%, Steph. Not a single wrong word in your post, so I won’t repeat any of of it.

What I will add is: most importantly, no-one’s job should depend on them having to take it, EVER.

238617 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJS123, replying to Ceriain, 7, #135 of 2060 🔗

I do worry as an NHS worker that this will be the case.

238747 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to TJS123, 3, #136 of 2060 🔗

I sincerely hope not, Teresa. 🙁

239309 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to TJS123, 3, #137 of 2060 🔗

You will have to take it as they want rid of you and your co-workers. The rest of us will also be bullied, blackmailed or mandated into baring our arms. We live in the very worst of times.

238710 ▶▶▶▶▶ DeepBlueYonder, replying to steph, 6, #138 of 2060 🔗

Yes. Surely at the centre of medical ethics is the idea of autonomy . We “respect patients’ autonomy by giving them the information needed to understand the risks and benefits of a proposed intervention , as well as the reasonable alternatives (including no intervention), so that they may make independent decisions” (Sedig, 2016).

238966 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to DeepBlueYonder, 8, #139 of 2060 🔗

They don’t necessarily have to force anyone to take the vaccine. Just as nobody is forced to use a credit card, bank account or a passport, but it makes life very difficult if you don’t have those things.

239315 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Cranmer, 4, #140 of 2060 🔗

Yes they will bully and blackmail, before they try to mandate the vaccine, which of course they eventually will.

239300 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to steph, 1, #141 of 2060 🔗

If the vaccine is totally safe then the Covid-19 plandemic will have been a monumental failure.

238441 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, 9, #142 of 2060 🔗

Some people on here as as blinded by MSM as anyone else

Yes.

Not happy about your Cornwall idea though. The virus has never really done much down here in Devon and Cornwall, perhaps because we may have some of the highest levels immunity in the population.

238512 ▶▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to TJN, 4, #143 of 2060 🔗

I actually think it spread in the West Country this time last year.

238547 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Will, 5, #144 of 2060 🔗

Yes, that’s the interesting question. A bit later around us in SW Devon – the TJN family, and friends around us, had classic covid symptoms Christmas-New Year, lasting into January.

Either the virus doesn’t like the sea/moor air or we’ve had it, or both.

238656 ▶▶▶▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to TJN, 6, #145 of 2060 🔗

Where I am, in south Devon, our ‘infection rates’ are currently twice as high as the UK average. No corresponding rise in death rates, though. Yet.

Our local director of public health was obliged, when the first person to die for four months with a covid positive test was announced, to explain that this had been a very old lady who had been receiving end-of-life care.

239087 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Miss Owl, 3, #146 of 2060 🔗

One of the university cities? That might explain the infection rates. Outside of Plymouth/Exeter/Torbay it wasn’t too bad here last time I looked – that’s on +ve pcrs.

239322 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to TJN, 2, #147 of 2060 🔗

If people are afraid of the vaccine, which they ought to be, they shouldn’t wish it on others, excluding the government of course.

238460 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, 29, #148 of 2060 🔗

I agree that trying to make this a public vs private issue is not a helpful approach, just as making it a left-right issue is not helpful.

The trouble with accepting a vaccine, even if it is safe, is that it validates the idea that covid is an exceptional event, medically speaking, leaving the door open for further rounds of madness in the future

238632 ▶▶▶▶▶ LS99, replying to Julian, 6, #149 of 2060 🔗

Spot on.

238494 ▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, 13, #150 of 2060 🔗

Yes I agree. It’s as nasty as the people saying civil servants and any public sector workers should be forced to have it. Some people on here as as blinded by MSM as anyone else – being a skeptic and being a public sector worker are by no means mutually exclusive!

Totally agree! A lot of these people are still working to keep services going; they are just doing their jobs, like lots of others are trying to do, and should never be thrown in with the “just following orders” lot.

I’m very disappointed to hear anyone say, “such and such a lot should be made to take it first”, as a punishment.

238533 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, 2, #151 of 2060 🔗

“It’s as nasty as the people saying civil servants and any public sector workers should be forced to have it.”

When you work for the system, you are the system and compliance begins at home. I am a former public servant.

238623 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJS123, replying to Ewan Duffy, 6, #152 of 2060 🔗

Please don’t assume that we are all complying. There are many ways to skin a cat.

239332 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Ewan Duffy, 1, #153 of 2060 🔗

Public servants should just say no, but most of them won’t and they will then be dead meat.

238610 ▶▶▶▶ TJS123, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, 6, #154 of 2060 🔗

Absolutely. While this page is my respite and sanity, I am disturbed that some alleged sceptics make such unevidenced generalisations about people in particular jobs. Aren’t we supposed to be the ones who are enlightened and follow the facts? The vast majority of us frontline workers are struggling to maintain our services to our patients despite the restrictions imposed from above.

239096 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to TJS123, 3, #155 of 2060 🔗

Quite right – especially the bit about us supposed to be the ones who are enlightened following the facts. I distresses me to see these pages sometimes/frequently wandering from these principles

239290 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, 3, #156 of 2060 🔗

The best place to start is not bother at all. The vaccine is clearly highly experimental, hardly tested and is not needed by 99.7% of the population. Oh I forgot to mention that it will likely be intentionally harmful.

239281 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to steph, 4, #157 of 2060 🔗

If doctors won’t take it then why on earth should the rest of us.Just say no, loudly.

238480 ▶▶ Mike, replying to Cecil B, 17, #158 of 2060 🔗

I don’t think its double standards…its the same standards. The old and infirm are once again expendable. They provide a good cohort of the population on which you can roll out mass trials and if anything negative were to happen (on a small scale at least) they can just point at the old codger and blame any side effects or even their untimely death on their existing conditions!! Genius!
Obviously this would be disastrous if granny keeled over immediately after the jab, but a couple of weeks later who’s really going to check? They didn’t really bother checking COVID deaths so they certainly aren’t going to waste time checking death by lethal injection?

238826 ▶▶ miahoneybee, replying to Cecil B, 11, #159 of 2060 🔗

I wont be having the vaccine by choice or if threatened at work but I like so many others cannot afford to lose my job. Healthcare professionals should have the choice with no penalties for refusing.

238377 nat, replying to nat, 5, #160 of 2060 🔗

Has anyone seen Klaus Schwab’s twitter account ? He of the WEF and The Great Reset.

Some choice gems:

We are currently liaising with UK government ministers. We are advising them, in the light of an unprecedented pandemic, to implement legislation to arrest & prosecute those that celebrate Christmas

The #COVID19 pandemic has gifted the global population with a great opportunity to #BuildBackBetter
“The abolition of marriage & the family is central to the fundamental transformation necessary to implement a just society.” – Karl Marx

The latest scientific research suggests that #COVID19 can be super-spread via flowers, small shrubs and certain cacti.
Don’t send flowers to granny. Don’t kill granny.

Due to mandatory social restrictions, single people are finding it more difficult than ever to meet each other. As the global population is currently not #sustainable and birth rates need to fall, this can be viewed as a very positive outcome of the #Covid_19 pandemic.

Is he serious or is he just trolling us ?

238428 ▶▶ chaos, replying to nat, 7, #161 of 2060 🔗

the underscore klaus_schwab account is the real Klaus.. the other is a satirical troll…

238535 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to chaos, 3, #162 of 2060 🔗

The one I mention has an underscore @_Klaus_Schwab but could be a satire yes. I just can’t be sure of anything anymore, when real life has become a farce… …

238584 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to nat, 2, #163 of 2060 🔗

It’s not that satirical.

238442 ▶▶ Wallykazzoo, replying to nat, 3, #164 of 2060 🔗

Yes I have , I’m pretty sure it’s a fake account , it is funny in a dark way

238586 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Wallykazzoo, 2, #165 of 2060 🔗

The funniest things are usually based on fact.

238789 ▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Rowan, 1, #166 of 2060 🔗

Yes , I think the best response to this man is to laugh at him.

238975 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to nat, 2, #167 of 2060 🔗

I’d just like to see Roger Moore blow him up along with his underground base.

238599 ▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to nat, 3, #168 of 2060 🔗

Surely killing granny is a critical step on the path to the abolition of the family…

238783 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to Andrew Fish, 1, #169 of 2060 🔗

They haven’t thought that one through have they ?

239167 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Andrew Fish, 1, #170 of 2060 🔗

Indoctrinating her grandchildren has already begun years ago.

238384 annie, replying to annie, 38, #171 of 2060 🔗

“Pfizer’s data is yet to be peer-reviewed or published in a medical journal but the drugmaker said it would do so once it has results from the entire trial.”

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8930445/Joe-Biden-pleads-Americans-wear-mask-despite-vaccine-breakthrough.html

So does peer review constitute a scientific gold standard, or doesn’t it?

Time to publish the Danish nappy study.

Pfizer study not peer reviewed (and not even complete): never mind, shove the stuff into people anyway.

Danish nappy study not peer reviewed: obviously wrong result, no proof, shove the rags on to people’s faces anyway.

Remember cold fusion? The miracle cure for all the world’s energy ills. Vanished like a snowflake in the Sahara when other scientists tried to replicate the results.

Follow The Arseholes.

238423 ▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to annie, 6, #172 of 2060 🔗

I guess it depends on if the peers receive grants from the same place?

238588 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Sceptic Hank, 2, #173 of 2060 🔗

You get the governments and the peers you pay for.

238386 rational actor, replying to rational actor, 69, #174 of 2060 🔗

Here in the US I don’t see how the advent of a vaccine will enable the batflu catastrophists of Main Street to give it a rest. If the vaccine only ameliorates symptoms, rather than conferring immunity or preventing infection, these people will never be able to accept that they can get sick and expect it to be a minor event. They will be running around in masks until the day they die. If the vaccine prevents symptoms but does not mean that you are not infected, I will spend the rest of my life hearing about how we have to ‘shield the vulnerable’ by wearing masks and yadda yadda. Batflu hysterics are so deeply implicated in this pseudo-emergency that they now have no way out except by means of a deus ex machina who tells that they have done well and may now cease to worry. But why would anyone do that, when these nutters are so manipulable?

As for Joe’s mask mandate, he can jack it up his ass. There is no evidence that masks work and he knows it. Wearing a mask outside has no public health value; it is purely a measure of your submission to authority. You assume the mouth bridle to demonstrate loyalty to the regime. I will not do it, and I am ready for what happens to me. I am old and do not have much to lose. Prison might be the making of me after I refuse to pay my fines.

238628 ▶▶ CivilianNotCovidian, replying to rational actor, 28, #175 of 2060 🔗

It is not just the fact that masks are ineffective, they are extremely dangerous. Not being able to see someone’s facial expression automatically triggers the body’s natural alert system putting us in a state of high stress. Stress is greatest killer known to man. Concealing identity around children enables child abduction. Preventing natural air flow stops bacteria from exiting the body and can lead to serious lung conditions. This is COMMON SENSE. People’s common sense instincts have been hijacked by technology.

239002 ▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 6, #176 of 2060 🔗

It also creates problems for the cult of celebrity and physical appearance. How can you sell makeup, toothpaste etc to masked people? How can you have celebrity websites, youtube videos, Love Island etc if everyone’s face is covered?

239266 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cranmer, 1, #177 of 2060 🔗

There’s never a shortage of enhanced boobs thrust in your face from the DM website.

239085 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 12, #178 of 2060 🔗

Countries without mask mandates even have no or smaller second waves than those with them.
People don’t handle them correctly, they make them ignore distancing rules, they touch their faces more often, and they breath in their own virus again if they are infected, thereby turning them from a lowly infected uninfectious person into an infectious one.

Masks are indeed dangerous killers.
Of people, freedom and democracy.
And Gessler’s hats, like the Hitler salute was one.

239711 ▶▶▶ ianric, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 2, #179 of 2060 🔗

An issue I have with masks is that my glasses steam up from my breath. I have the feeling sometimes the mask is still on me after I take it off.

239830 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to ianric, 1, #180 of 2060 🔗

That tells me you are exempt. And if you can’t get that you’re exempt on the grounds of mental deficiency. AG

239775 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to rational actor, 2, #181 of 2060 🔗

Have any of the people who thought Biden so wonderful changed their minds on hearing about the mask mandate?

239802 ▶▶▶ sam, replying to Rosie, 4, #182 of 2060 🔗

i wish but i think they’re too brainwashed is a cult . however so happy to have met more wonderful fellow lockdown sceptics today there must be even more of us out there than I’d realized !

238387 annie, replying to annie, 12, #183 of 2060 🔗

That zero covid movement is really going to galvanise the nation:

“National Day of Action Saturday 14 November

11.00 Online rally

14.00 Safe outdoor protests”

238613 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to annie, 6, #184 of 2060 🔗

The real unsafe factor about outdoor protests is the behaviour of the thugs in uniform. They are clearly as thick as the proverbial planks and their turn will undoubtedly come.

238927 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Rowan, 4, #185 of 2060 🔗

Don’t worry, it’s a fair bet that the thugs in uniform won’t touch the ‘zero covid’ lot. MW

238919 ▶▶ stewart, replying to annie, 5, #186 of 2060 🔗

I’d like to start a zero zero-covid advocates movement.

238389 rational actor, replying to rational actor, 31, #187 of 2060 🔗

This may seem OT but it is a response to a topic that keeps coming up in these threads, namely, the desire for a written constitution as a better protector of civil liberties. Don’t be so sure that this is true.

In the US, the land of the ultimate written constitution, this does not provide as much protection as you might think. Judicial activists take the view that laws should be interpreted in the light of modern mores, which essentially means that laws are whatever the judge says they are today, according to his view of contemporary society. This does not involve any consultation with citizens, nor does it entail any examination of how this new interpretation of the law affects the existing legal code. My state was lauded as being one of the first to legalize gay marriage, but that only happened because a judge suddenly discovered that it had been a constitutional right all along! He was swiftly voted out at the next election, because nobody else saw it that way. Similarly, it is hard to see how abortion and gay marriage are rights discovered in the Constitution. Point being, written constitutions can also be abused.

Worse yet, if you chose to convene a Constitutional Convention in the UK now, you would be fighting with wokists over what that document included. They would certainly try to incorporate legal protections for their favoured victim groups above others, and would endeavour to put in place mechanisms that they could exploit in order to hold permanent power. At this point in time, a written constitution would certainly be a travesty compared to what you have now, so it is better to work with common law. Your time and effort should be put into more important tasks such as holding public officials accountable, recapturing the education system, and reining in the police. Don’t waste your time on a fight you might well lose.

238877 ▶▶ AfterAll, replying to rational actor, 1, #188 of 2060 🔗

The USA is a mess, yes, although Switzerland’s constitution has been impressively durable; sometimes it works.

238953 ▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to rational actor, 3, #189 of 2060 🔗

Good insight – thanks.

239007 ▶▶ Cranmer, replying to rational actor, 4, #190 of 2060 🔗

This is why I am against a codified constitution for the UK – it will just enshrine in law for all time the values of the Guardian.

239263 ▶▶▶ Judy Watson, replying to Cranmer, 1, #191 of 2060 🔗

To that I can only say AAAARRRGGGHHH

238390 chaos, replying to chaos, 7, #192 of 2060 🔗

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoCYYVmDbMU&t=21s
1:32:07 Is where the magick starts on this WEF video

Yes.. that’s Rishi talking about the Great Reset…

Bashing us over the head with it yet still some ignore it..

238391 ▶▶ John Smith, replying to chaos, 14, #193 of 2060 🔗

Wilfully ignore it.

I sometimes wonder about the motivation behind the chaps who started this website and today’s leading and ever so slightly gushing article about the vaccine only strengthens my suspicion.

238394 ▶▶▶ JamesDrebin, replying to John Smith, 5, #194 of 2060 🔗

Yep, same, literally just posted my thoughts before reading your comment!

238640 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to John Smith, 8, #195 of 2060 🔗

Most people including many sceptics still seem to be in awe of Big Pharma and its vaccines. This is usually down to ignorance and years of blatant propaganda. A few hours of serious and open-minded research is usually enough to dispel many of the myths concerning vaccines. Any doubts concerning the safety and effectiveness of current vaccines will increase by an order of magnitude in respect of the rushed and hardly tested Covid-19 vaccine offerings.

238392 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to chaos, 4, #196 of 2060 🔗

Headline in the FT
“Rishi Sunak about to launch first Green Gilts”
(entirely behind paywall).

238400 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 9, #197 of 2060 🔗

A gilt is a young female pig that hasn’t yet graduated to being a sow.
Not a good investment, particularly if green.

238393 JamesDrebin, replying to JamesDrebin, 67, #198 of 2060 🔗

If one can see that lockdowns are unnecessary and suspicious in light of this statistically impotent virus, one must surely acknowledge the absolute absurdity of the push to have everyone vaccinated against it.

The fact that dissent will not be tolerated should tell you all you need to know about the necessity and safety of these lucrative treatments.

To rail against lockdowns but accept this vaccine agenda at face value is either staggering blindness, or willful intellectual dishonesty.

There are media outlets and dare I say blog sites that will purport to be sceptical, but are really just officially sanctioned pressure valves who allow scepticism within the bounds of the acceptable narrative.

Don’t be fooled.

238403 ▶▶ Sally, replying to JamesDrebin, 23, #199 of 2060 🔗

To be honest, I’m not sure that this website is particularly critical of the vaccine agenda (aside from people of those who comment below the line). Or is that exactly what you’re saying?

Unfortunately there are plenty of “skeptics” who uncritically embrace the vaccine agenda precisely because they think it will “calm everyone down”.

238406 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sally, 21, #200 of 2060 🔗

I am not sceptical about vaccines as such, though I have never taken the flu jab, but I am sceptical that a rushed untested vaccine can be declared safe.

Just an observation, yesterday I collected my repeat medication for COPD. For the first time I looked at the blurb which included a dozen ‘common side effects’ and ten ‘uncommon’ ones some of which seem quite scary and might have put me off but I have never experienced any of them.

238409 ▶▶▶▶ Sally, replying to karenovirus, 39, #201 of 2060 🔗

I’m not opposed to vaccines in general either. I think this one is unnecessary for the vast majority and most likely ineffective in those who could theoretically benefit from it. (I don’t care if they want to take it.) My greatest concerns are the possibility that there will be community support for mandatory vaccination and that vaccines will legitimise lockdowns and other authoritarian responses to epidemics.

239058 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Sally, 2, #202 of 2060 🔗

In a nutshell.

238416 ▶▶▶▶ chaos, replying to karenovirus, 1, #203 of 2060 🔗

you should try n-acetyl cysteine

238411 ▶▶▶ CivilianNotCovidian, replying to Sally, 38, #204 of 2060 🔗

This is EXACTLY what my friend says “we need the vaccine as it will calm everyone down”… how about “once they invent the gas chamber it might kill a few people but at least it will calm people down.” So irresponsible! No one is telling the truth. We have been trying to develop a vaccine for the common cold (caused by rhinoviruses and coronaviruses since the 1940s) and it is NOT POSSIBLE. Mostly, it seems, because as soon as you have a potential vaccine for one strain it becomes redundant because coronaviruses mutate too quickly. (Anyone actually watched the matrix – a great metaphor!) Look at this current drama about the Danish minks. Already the virus has mutated. “Shit, what do we do with 40 million doses of a vaccine? Let’s shove it into people anyway!” I am so frightened. The speed with which this nightmare is evolving is terrifying.

238461 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 3, #205 of 2060 🔗

Hancock on BBC R4 8am news.
‘It doesn’t matter how effective the vaccine is, if it doesn’t pass safety tests we won’t use it . . . Clinical trials might take weeks but we are in the hands of the scientists’.

238466 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 3, #206 of 2060 🔗

‘Starting off with care home residents and care workers then rolling down the age ranges’

238823 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to karenovirus, 9, #207 of 2060 🔗

Yes he would be happy to use the age care residents as guinea pigs, he has already demonstrated he has no concerns about their welfare.

238583 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to karenovirus, 3, #208 of 2060 🔗

Hancock has been called to an urgent meeting with his handlers?

238597 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bugle, 2, #209 of 2060 🔗

Just quoting what he said, seems he’s on to Talk Radio next

238635 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Bugle, 5, #210 of 2060 🔗

His investments are clearly in mass-testing rather than the vaccine, or at least they aren’t in this particular vaccine.

238531 ▶▶▶ JamesDrebin, replying to Sally, 39, #211 of 2060 🔗

Yes Sally, I did have my eye on this site a little bit (which let’s not forget acts as a funnel to the Telegraph’s content), as well as places like TalkRadio. They talked a good milquetoast “lockdowns are mad!” game all along, but now they seem to be credulous that a “little prick” (as it were!) will mean we can get back our normal lives back.

None of them seem to acknowledge the serious bait-and-switch going on here, where we have had our liberty taken away on the basis of lies, which will only be returned to us on the condition that we are coerced by our employers and bullied by our virtuous peers into having our bloodstreams monetised forevermore.

And just to be clear with any detractors, I am not anti-vaccination at all. I’ve had all the usual childhood shots, and plenty of region specific ones for travel, and have no worries about them.

But the need for any mass vaccination program for this – the seemingly weakest of all known apocalyptic diseases – stinks to high hell. We have been kidnapped by a pharma-fascist cabal, and it is increasingly clear to those who have eyes to see that we won’t be let go until we give in and take our medicine.

238540 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to JamesDrebin, 13, #212 of 2060 🔗

They wont let go if you give in and take their medicine either.

238544 ▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to JamesDrebin, 18, #213 of 2060 🔗

I have had plenty of vaccines too – no pron.

It used to be that an ‘anti-vaxxer’ was someone who was against all or many vaccinations on principle.

Now, it seems that an ‘anti-vaxxer’ is someone, who questions any vaccine at any time anywhere.

239178 ▶▶▶▶ DickieA, replying to JamesDrebin, 3, #214 of 2060 🔗

So Hancock thinks a little prick will solve the Covid nightmare? Not sure why – as he’s not done a great job so far………

239291 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JamesDrebin, 4, #215 of 2060 🔗

It isn’t about the vaccine. It’s about the “health” passport!

240163 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Cheezilla, #216 of 2060 🔗

The health passport is just a form of controlling those who are left over, once the vaccines have carried out most of their dirty work. It should be very clear by now just what the Great Reset is all about and that there won’t be a place for most of us in that brave new green world.

240026 ▶▶▶▶ Borisbullshit, replying to JamesDrebin, #217 of 2060 🔗

Perhaps welcoming a vaccine which may become mandatory will come to be seen as a similar kind of collaboration to wearing a mask outdoors.

240386 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to JamesDrebin, #218 of 2060 🔗

Don’t give in, don’t take their medicine.

239811 ▶▶▶ sam, replying to Sally, 2, #219 of 2060 🔗

i am more against vaccines in general personally, aside from polio or tetnus etc .but am definitely against this vaccine and any vaccine that is forced on people especially the idea that you can’t travel without a vaccine .is a science fiction movie now . that i did’nt buy a ticket for.

240079 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Sally, 2, #220 of 2060 🔗

Sceptics who embrace the vaccine agenda are only playing at scepticism. These not so sceptical sceptics are likely nothing more than the professional liars who make up the Army’s 77th Brigade.

238405 ▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to JamesDrebin, 15, #221 of 2060 🔗

To be fair, he did say “If it really is 90% effective, protects the weak as well as the strong, has no major side effects and turns out to be as effective against other strains – all big ifs – it may help to calm everybody down.”

All big Ifs.

238413 ▶▶▶ Sally, replying to Sceptic Hank, 43, #222 of 2060 🔗

The point is we need people to come to their senses and realise that this virus has been horrendously overblown. If this doesn’t happen, and we just get a vaccine happy ending instead, with no reckoning as to the absurdity and monstrosity of the pandemic response, lockdowns and all the rest are likely to happen again in the future. And imagine what they might do to us if a genuinely dangerous pathogen came along.

238419 ▶▶▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to Sally, 11, #223 of 2060 🔗

Wouldn’t be at all surprised that if this attempt at a vaccine happy ending fails (as previous ones have) a much nastier new pathogen will come along.

240180 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Sceptic Hank, #224 of 2060 🔗

Another nastier pathogen is exactly what Bill Gates has warned about. He calls it Pandemic 2 and he should know all about that, shouldn’t he?

240387 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Rowan, #225 of 2060 🔗

They’re working on it this very moment.

238476 ▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Sally, 22, #226 of 2060 🔗

And imagine what they might do to us if a genuinely dangerous pathogen came along.

Yes, pretty scary thought.

Never forget that video of Gates and his wife talking about ‘they won’t ignore the next one’ or words to that effect… with that evil little smirk on his face.

239017 ▶▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Sally, 5, #227 of 2060 🔗

I think ‘money shot’ might be a more accurate term than ‘happy ending’ in this case.

240185 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Cranmer, #228 of 2060 🔗

If its just about ripping us all off, for another vaccine pushers obscene super payday, then we will have gotten away very lightly.

238418 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to Sceptic Hank, 13, #229 of 2060 🔗

thin end of the trojan wedge.. one vaccine, followed by digital ID, followed by more vaccines.. and later? Sterilisations… augmentations.. experiments.. euthanasia… Logan’s Run.

238482 ▶▶▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to chaos, 8, #230 of 2060 🔗

Remember they keep failing…they will fail again.

240187 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to chaos, #231 of 2060 🔗

Don’t forget the early vaccine deaths of the old and infirm.

238563 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Sceptic Hank, 6, #232 of 2060 🔗

It has not been tested on the weak or the old. It has been hardly tested on people 55 or younger. Can they tell us the death rates from Covid-19 in both groups and of course no long term side effects have been tested for. This is just another make Bill Gates even richer scheme and of course his accomplices in governments and academia the world over will also be doing very nicely.

238645 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Sceptic Hank, 7, #233 of 2060 🔗

If the current hysteria was caused by the virus instead of the media, our deeply corrupt institutions and government. As this is not the case then any calm will not be a result of the vaccine – it will be the result of a choice somewhere to stop terrorising the people.

To calm everybody down we need a vaccine that is effective against the brainwashing not the the virus and that seems even more unlikley.

238682 ▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Sceptic Hank, 14, #234 of 2060 🔗

He could easily calm everyone down by reducing the cycles for PCR testing to a reasonable level.

239068 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to thinkaboutit, 5, #235 of 2060 🔗

They’ll do that in conjunction with vaccine rollout.
The pandemic will have ended immediately just through that, but they will credit the vacccine, of course.
Which makes me hopeful that we’ll all get a placebo anyway.
Anything else would be reckless with regard to getting key workers vaccinated first anyway.
Who would do their jobs, if the vaccine turns out to be a mass killer in a few months time!?

239352 ▶▶▶▶▶ Marialta, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #236 of 2060 🔗

Vaccine = Red Herring

This scare narrative has been so successful that politicians can easily string this vaccine invention out for another two years or more. During this time we will get used to all the restrictions – the dreaded ‘New Normal’.

With big tech clamping down on free speech, increased surveillance, destruction of the economy and the bad health effects of an underperforming NHS, how can we not become demoralised and compliant?

THE VACCINE/CARROT will continue to dangled by those whom it benefits financially until such time as other connected agendas are in place such as Green initiatives and increased reliance on state benefits.

240198 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Marialta, #237 of 2060 🔗

The vaccines will be rolled out sooner rather than later, as they are the centrepiece of the great cull, which is a prerequisite for the Great Reset.

240192 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Jay Berger, #238 of 2060 🔗

If the vaccine turns out to be a mass killer, which doesn’t seem at all unlikely, they will blame on either a new or mutated virus.

239043 ▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Sceptic Hank, 3, #239 of 2060 🔗

But he can easily “prove” that can’t he? We know the CMO and CSO are good at cherry picking data to support anything.

239298 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to thinkaboutit, 1, #240 of 2060 🔗

Do they pick it? I suspect they are handed it from the Nudge Unit, along with their script.

239271 ▶▶▶ Marialta, replying to Sceptic Hank, 5, #241 of 2060 🔗

It’s a bit rich to talk of ‘calming us down’ it was the wretched government & Sage that so successfully concocted the fear in the first place & have been stoking it ever since.

240176 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Sceptic Hank, #242 of 2060 🔗

The fact that he says “if” is meaningless, as he could hardly say anything else at this stage and we know in our bones that all those conditions will be met by hook or by crook. Being fair to vaccine pushers is akin to inviting Hannibal Lecter round for a spot of lunch. We ought to know better.

238417 ▶▶ 2 pence, replying to JamesDrebin, 1, #243 of 2060 🔗

A Shot In The Dark – Are Vaccines Really Safe?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93_nkOPoh70&ab_channel=RichardBruce

239204 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to 2 pence, 5, #244 of 2060 🔗

Safe or unsafe, it doesn’t matter. Just say no. Don’t play their game.

238875 ▶▶ TyRade, replying to JamesDrebin, 3, #245 of 2060 🔗

can I have a gazebo instead of a placebo?

239056 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to JamesDrebin, 5, #246 of 2060 🔗

94 people getting infected out of 44.000 is enough to know to question the need for the vaccines at all and to question the data on the prevalence of the virus.
Not to speak of the for decades unknowable and incalculable side effects of these rushed vaccines, their risk reward profile is horrible for anyone not at serious risk of the pathogen and disease and in particular for anyone still contemplating their reproduction and that offspring.
And my idea of a 90% efficiency would be that out of 22000 vaccinated people, only 2000 got infected, while the 22000 unvaccinated all got infected.
It is not: out of 22. 000 vaccinated and 22.000 unvaccinated people, 94 got infected and all had symptoms, but 84 of the infected were unvaccinated and 10 vaccinated.

238395 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 12, #247 of 2060 🔗

Buy Pfizer shares, short Pfizer shares, buy Pfizer shares, short Pfizer

Money to be made by the elites

The bill always added to the taxpayers tab

‘Twas on the bridge at midnight……

It’s the rich wot gets the pleasure
It’s the poor wot gets the blame
Ain’t it all the fucking same’

238529 ▶▶ Llamasaurus Rex, replying to Cecil B, 6, #248 of 2060 🔗

Cecil, you nailed it. Crony capitalists’ (aka Inner Party) boot stamping on a human face –forever”.

238396 CivilianNotCovidian, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 22, #249 of 2060 🔗

You are no longer allowed an opinion or a choice over your own body. Dissenters will be prosecuted. No vaccine, no right to life. In 100 years (if anything resembling what we know as the human being still exists and the world hasn’t been entirely filled with these hybrid homo-tech, faceless, microchipped versions of human beings, we will look back on all this and this genocide will eclipse the holocaust. Is there any hope or is it game over?!

238412 ▶▶ chaos, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 4, #250 of 2060 🔗

In 4 billion years when our simulated sun destroys our simulated earth… it will not be simulated humans looking up at the simulated protracted cataclysm unfolding in the simulated heavens…

238415 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 29, #251 of 2060 🔗

As I said a few months ago, they also want your body after you’ve died. Unless you opt out, they will harvest your organs. And as I also said a few months ago we really are in Brave New World territory.

As for the vaccine, one word: Thalidomide.

238426 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to kh1485, 32, #252 of 2060 🔗

OK, whoever down-ticked this, all I would say is, you take the vaccine. I have seen with my own eyes the devastating impact drugs have on people. This thing has been rushed out with minimal testing. And I think it should be my choice as to what happens to my body after I die.

238439 ▶▶▶ CivilianNotCovidian, replying to kh1485, 15, #253 of 2060 🔗

I have used Thalidomide more than once when trying to make people see sense. The brainwashing has gone deep – and into some of the smartest people I know. It’s so upsetting.

238456 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 9, #254 of 2060 🔗

They should show those series of episodes again from Call the Midwife to demonstrate what damage thalidomide did to many people.

240047 ▶▶ Borisbullshit, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, #255 of 2060 🔗

The terminator films suggest its game over! I used to think it was mad sci…but there again the first one came out in 1984!

238397 Jon, 11, #256 of 2060 🔗

Hello,

In regards to that George Carlin routine it was recorded in 1999 as part of a larger skit called “You are all Diseased!”. Carlin sadly died in 2008. The Youtube video you got it from was uploaded in 2011

238398 NorthumbrianNomad, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 19, #257 of 2060 🔗

The more I read about this Pfizer vaccine, the more the whole thing reminds me of the scene in Blackadder II, where Percy, trying to help Lord Blackadder make a quick fortune to avert bankruptcy, takes up alchemy and thinks he’s made gold:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvspYUhiJDM

238435 ▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 6, #258 of 2060 🔗

Pure Green!!!

238408 chaos, replying to chaos, -7, #259 of 2060 🔗

Free Speech Union?

Toby is just like TalkRadio.. I’m starting to delete my comments from here.. there is no free speech in this new normal. Delingpole has more integrity than Toby.

238434 ▶▶ Julian, replying to chaos, 2, #260 of 2060 🔗

Why are you deleting your comments? Have you been censored here?

238436 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to Julian, -6, #261 of 2060 🔗

I don’t trust the site’s motives.

238455 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to chaos, 6, #262 of 2060 🔗

By which you mean you don’t trust TY’s motives? What do you think they are and what evidence do you have for this?

238467 ▶▶▶▶▶ chaos, replying to Julian, 1, #263 of 2060 🔗

maybe I mean I don’t trust the government not to pursue online dissent at some point in the future.. feel uneasy…

238472 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to chaos, 12, #264 of 2060 🔗

It’s a possibility, and I too feel uneasy, but for now I would think pursuing public dissent is OK and preferable. There are MPs now openly dissenting – in North Korea they would not have done that, because one sign of dissent in private and they would have been for the firing squad.

Things could get very bad, and they are already pretty bad. But we’re not North Korea yet. Neither are we a completely free country, and freedom of speech has been constrained for a while now.

238509 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basileus, replying to chaos, 6, #265 of 2060 🔗

That seems a reasonable concern, but if we all adopt that attitude we are lost.

238749 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Felice, replying to chaos, 2, #266 of 2060 🔗

That crossed my mind several weeks ago.

239195 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to chaos, #267 of 2060 🔗

Go to Mark Windows ‘Windows on the World’.

238526 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to chaos, 11, #268 of 2060 🔗

chaos, don’t delete your comments just because you disagree with the site owner.

Your opinions and thoughts have meaning to US , the commenters. 🙂

240334 ▶▶ Binra, replying to chaos, #269 of 2060 🔗

It takes one to know one.
If you write into a public forum, you are wise to run what you write past your heart, such that you can stand in it.
Self censorship in the sense of checking your own thoughts, accepted currency and given witness, is simply being responsible to yourself and therefore to your communication with others.
Your freedom to give your witness, feedback or perspective is not dependent of freedom from persecution, or else you are censored by fear rather than aligned in the heart.

If you step outside your own identity/worldview, you will have to cross a line that is really within yourself and not ‘out there’ – and this will come up perhaps many times in different moments.
I suggest purifying your motives, such that IF there is any comeback, you are in your integrity to meet it. In any case life happens and if you are out of integrity you will suffer the changes through the filtering beliefs of self blame or division.
I feel whole in what I write and as such it offers support to wholeness in others – even if it does not support their current worldview.

Different people are in different places. The attempt to judge others is always a masked self-judgement. But addressing the issues, ideas and patterns that underlie behaviours, choices and outcomes is looking past the masking diversions to what the underlying fears are.
If Toby came out openly with persistent and direct critical perspective on what runs beneath, he would lose friends, contacts and networks of support. On the other hand to bang on the same old points to no avail is to become irrelevant – except to those who want a limited hangout that only looks to political sideshow.
As for whether Toby on any level intends or knowingly runs a kettle for narratives of dissent, perhaps that is his choice and his own to ask and answer.
I don’t set people up to demand they be what I need them to be, but look for shared interest and appreciations that hold for humanity rather than succumb to groupthink – which can and does occur in polarised reaction as much as in the mindset reacted to.

BTW that you can delete your comments does not mean you delete them from the record.
I hold integrity to be at the level of being – and embodied in our character or masked over in false virtues seeking reinforcement. So if you ‘lose it’ it remains there to uncover by looking AT the mask and stepping out from it – rather than letting it run AS you.
As you see masking is generated as protection and as a means to hide a fear and control agenda. If we are not ready to see, then we will not – and so must ‘see’ something else. The mind is ingenious in masking over fear, but at cost to a true awareness of our being.

238420 Bernard Carney, replying to Bernard Carney, -1, #270 of 2060 🔗

I would like topics to be separated. It makes it easier to share and reference.

239320 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bernard Carney, 1, #271 of 2060 🔗

This is a blogsite. Not a forum. Doesn’t work that way.
You can post stuff onto the forum if you want to be able to find them later.

238422 mattghg, replying to mattghg, 10, #272 of 2060 🔗

“the Government’s strategy involves setting up large scale asymptomatic testing programmes at universities”

Give me strength…!

239321 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mattghg, 1, #273 of 2060 🔗

They really need to escape now!

238424 Mark H, 3, #274 of 2060 🔗

Great talk by Tom Woods on the Cult of Covid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcm8Sc8f66o&ab_channel=misesmedia

238429 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 4, #275 of 2060 🔗

With regards to the Liverpool situation.
Informed consent is required- absolutely
Parents have to give consent- yes and no
The latter is age dependent.
Years 12 & 13 do NOT need parental consent (Mental Capacity Act confers capacity to make own decisions)
Year 11 those who are 16 do NOT need parental consent (MCA)
The remainder of Year 11 may or may not require parental consent, if they’re Gillick Competent.
Years 7-10 may or may not require parental consent, Gillick Competence
Primary school children MUST have parental consent.
Please note that when I worked in children’s A&E a child over 11 could ask for their parents NOT to be present. However a child presenting without an adult would be a safeguarding issue.
In my personal opinion parental consent should be sought for years 7-11, but definitely not years 12-13.

238446 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to p02099003, 4, #276 of 2060 🔗

Yep. Despite the bluster, he is talking shit. This is the basics for any student social worker – knowledge around Parental Responsibility. I think his HCPC number needs to be garnered personally.

238450 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to p02099003, 6, #277 of 2060 🔗

I forgot to say that the Children Act defines a child as everyone under 18 years of age.

238437 Basics, replying to Basics, 7, #278 of 2060 🔗

Andrew Johnson here gives an excellent presentation which tackles the main treasonous and otherwise events of the 2020 scam. Andrew is comprehensive and thorough in his lecture giving many good sources for further investigation.

Andrew uses official documentation clearly cited and presented to tell the story. Excellent. Lockdown Sceptics will be able to actively engage with the presentation recognising many points along the way. There is a section to lay tge foundation from Andrew’s own work at the time of previous scamdemics of 2009 Avian so called Flu.

As the title says it is doubtful if his lecture will remain online for long given the British GCHQ/77/bastards intention to remove online information that is not compatible with the insidious behaviours of Whitty, Valance, Hancock and Jackboot et al.

Download if you can. Share if you can.

https://youtu.be/nsmFTCbnMGY

238561 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Basics, 3, #279 of 2060 🔗

Andrew’s site is checktheevidence.com if it disappears.

238611 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Basics, #280 of 2060 🔗

Andrew Johnson is great!.
“The man with the shitty blue fleece”.

238777 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Basics, #281 of 2060 🔗

What is the best way to download the vid?

239384 ▶▶ Marialta, replying to Basics, 1, #282 of 2060 🔗

Thanks it was fantastic.

238453 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark H, 11, #284 of 2060 🔗

I wouldn’t trust those UK death figures much since they are testing everyone in hospital regardless of what they were admitted for and what symptoms they had. While there was possibly a plausible case for equating the spike of deaths over “average” back in the spring with covid, it is now tenuous. You really need to look at whether deaths right now in the UK are running much above average in recent decades and as far as I know the answer is they are not particularly.

238458 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Julian, 3, #285 of 2060 🔗

Agree. But the argument is being made on the reported figures. So skewer them with their own hubris

238462 ▶▶▶ Mark H, replying to Julian, 12, #286 of 2060 🔗

the point of the graph is that masks and lockdowns do not prevent deaths.

238567 ▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Mark H, 9, #287 of 2060 🔗

In fact. it looks, comparing the UK and Sweden, that lockdowns actually cause deaths.

As for masks causing deaths, I think we should keep an eye on bacterial pneumonia statistics this winter.

239347 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark H, replying to calchas, 1, #288 of 2060 🔗

Agreed! Give it to February.

239995 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to calchas, 1, #289 of 2060 🔗

I saw a 30+ year old woman on the bus yesterday. She sneezed into her full face mask then raised her left arm and wiped her mask on her sleeve. Blecch!

238443 SweetBabyCheeses, 14, #290 of 2060 🔗

What an awful pos that Steve Reddy is. How can he call himself a Director of Children’s Services when they are not what he seems to care about at all? One glance at the bloke’s Twitter feed seems to indicate he’s obsessed with this ridiculous testing pilot and coercing everyone into it. Children aren’t even affected by covid, but they are damaged by lockdown, so why isn’t he spending his time looking out for them?

It’s laughable that they seem to think they have been chosen as some kind of wonderful gift. Testing of asymptomatic people is worse than pointless and it’s just going to leave them being stuck with more “cases”. Perhaps the Council have been offered extra funding to support this omnishambles?

238444 steph, replying to steph, 14, #291 of 2060 🔗

I’ve made a couple of comments below about people suggesting, rather vindictively, who should be first in the queue for the vaccine. I joined in with saying it should be all those who voted for the second lockdown but now I retract that. Fully consenting adults only to start with please.
I’m having a really bad time mentally and can’t take much more. Last night I hadn’t a complete meltdown so I’m withdrawing to lick my wounds. Have a good day of constructive discussion people.

238448 ▶▶ steph, replying to steph, #292 of 2060 🔗

*Had* not hadn’t.

238449 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to steph, 7, #293 of 2060 🔗

You talk to people away from this site and it is all about concentration camps, mandatory vaccinations, withdrawing of healthcare. It’s inhumane yet this is the language of our leaders and people in positions of responsibility – it’s not right.

238573 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #294 of 2060 🔗

‘withdrawing of healthcare’

What bloody healthcare?

238574 ▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to calchas, 3, #295 of 2060 🔗

It’s been withdrawn already.

238452 ▶▶ Julian, replying to steph, 6, #296 of 2060 🔗

I’d rather no-one takes it because people have been brainwashed and while they are adults and responsible for their actions they are also human and as much victims as anything else

First in line should be those publicly advocating for it – politicians and scientists

238700 ▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Julian, #297 of 2060 🔗

No one should be forced to take the vaccine. But, if as suggested yesterday, there are workers who have declared themselves vulnerable and are sitting at home on full pay because of Covid is it satisfactory that they also refuse the vaccine? Debating point.

239798 ▶▶▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to thinkaboutit, #298 of 2060 🔗

No one should be able to declare themselves ‘vulnerable’ for pay purposes. It should require evidence from a GP or hospital consultant.

238447 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 20, #299 of 2060 🔗

Just had to turn off Talk Radio and put some music on, the vaccine adulation was getting too much. But i have to admit that I had not really given this vaccine business much thought until the Doctors phoned up and asked if I wanted the Flu vaccine and i said no thank you and then thought about why not?
After all I had a polio injection as a child and am pleased I did, I know people who had polio, it is horrible and the case for a polio vaccination seems pretty cast iron. I have visited Africa and had to have yellow fever injections for travel and i seem to have survived OK. I expect people like Julia HB on talk radio have had pretty much the same experience as me and so the immediate question is ‘what is the problem?
For this vaccine there seem to be 3 aspects to query the vaccination business.

  1. It is being done for political reasons, they want us to be vaccinated to bale them out of a political hole. It may even be worse than that with it all being done to make money. All with no particular medical need. Medical interventions should only be for medical reasons not for politics or economics.
  2. If you look at the medical needs for a vaccine it all looks a very thin case. Respiratory diseases are a different case to Polio, a vaccine against one respiratory virus can leave you more open to the others. If you are part of the 53.3 million in the UK who will not get serious covid you are better acquiring natural immunity than taking an artificial vaccine. Much of the current problem with Covid seems to be hospital and care home related , we need to be putting our medical nous into how to run them in a disease free way, as it is we are being asked to bale out the covid problems in the NHS by us all getting a vaccine jab.
  3. Safety; the current rush for a vaccine raises questions about safety, is the danger from covid such as to make it worth taking the risk with a vaccine that has been rushed through. Having seen the effect of Polio I am happy that as a child I took the vaccine it was well worth the risk but covid?

Many of our broadcasters will, like me, have had Polio, BCG, Yellow Fever,etc. vaccines and initially feel what is the problem.? It takes quite a bit of working through, education needed.

238457 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Steve Martindale, 13, #300 of 2060 🔗

Steve, this is not Polio. It’s not even the flu.

This is a beetle given the super steroids of media and frankly, incompetence, of institutional medicine to accurately report and measure the effect of a virus in the population, turning it into a world-eating monster.

64,000 people who died in Jan 2018 apparently don’t count.

All those grannies, loved ones, don’t count.

Why would we have a vaccine for a beetle?

238469 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to mhcp, 5, #301 of 2060 🔗

I put tweet about vaccines on the Talk Radio twitter header, did Julia HB read it who knows? but it has got 2 likes, I guess all we can do is, as Peter Hitchens advocates just keep tweeting, emailing and writing to MPs and anyone else we can think of. A bit like the old army training slogan, if you keep throwing mud at a blanket eventually some of it will stick!

238478 ▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to Steve Martindale, 8, #302 of 2060 🔗

Unlike older vaccines, these use Mrna technology (never tested before in humans) that makes the body produce its own antibodies.. Some would suggest a longer testing period …? Pfizer/BioNTech uses similar technology to Moderna.

BioNTech and Moderna are new companies that have never produced vaccines before or in fact any approved products. Pfizer has, but the vaccine uses BioNTech technology.

Here is a stock analysis of the 2 companies from September 29th before any of the announcements were made:

https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/09/29/these-2-biotech-stocks-are-winning-the-coronavirus/

238703 ▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Sceptic Hank, 3, #303 of 2060 🔗

Do we trust them? What other systems are being switched on/off while they are doing this?

238778 ▶▶▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to thinkaboutit, 3, #304 of 2060 🔗

I think the fact that both companies producing MRna vaccines (never used before in humans) have never produced any approved vaccines let alone products is questionable indeed. Where is the Precautionary Principle here?

238451 muzzle, replying to muzzle, 8, #305 of 2060 🔗

I have friends saying the vaccine will “stop people getting it”. That’s not correct, right? As it’s antibody defence, the virus can still be caught it’s just that we will be pre-loaded with the means to fight it. Have I understood that correctly?

238459 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to muzzle, 4, #306 of 2060 🔗

That’s how all vaccines work, they preset the immune system to trigger a full blown response when the real infection is detected. It doesn’t prevent infection on exposure but it does stop the associated illness. For influenza it mitigates the effects, but you can still get the flu.

238468 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to p02099003, 7, #307 of 2060 🔗

vaccines are like cycle helmets. kinda pointless.. most serious accidents to cyclists involve bodily crush injuries.. the helmet really only stops abrasion and cuts and offers minimal protection to the brain in speeds above 10mph.. and most people never land on their head when they fall.

238510 ▶▶▶ Sally, replying to p02099003, 3, #308 of 2060 🔗

Not all vaccines work that way. Some vaccines produce sterilising immunity, i.e. they stop a virus reproducing in the body. The vaccine that was used to eradicate smallpox is, I believe, an example of this.

238514 ▶▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Sally, 2, #309 of 2060 🔗

I stand corrected, thank you I wasn’t aware of that mode of operation, but it does make sense.

238463 Basics, 10, #310 of 2060 🔗

Update on the Common Law case:

“COVID-1984 UPDATE |09t-11-20
Given this morning’s announcement that BoJo will address the nation at 5 pm today, we will be waiting to see what he declares, before proceeding with the laying of the initial charges.

“On the basis that we have given the cabinet till noon today to respond to the notice we served on them last week, we will take whatever statement is made this evening as the government’s response to that missive.

“Once we all know the nature of that response, the People’s Union of Britain [PUB] and our legal team will assess whether the allegations we are making require amendment or alteration.

“However, whatever transpires this evening, the only defence any MP has is that, had they known that CV was no longer an HCID, one week before they passed the CV act, they would have voted against it.

“If Johnson has worked that out for himself, his only way out is to blame Wankock, for not declaring that to Parliament when the tyrannous act was presented, as the only solution to what has since proven to be a false flag public health emergency, founded upon entirely dishonest statements.”

https://metro.co.uk/2020/11/09/boris-johnson-to-address-nation-in-5pm-press-conference-13563004/

https://www.thefreedomcycle.com/covid/biggest-criminal-fraud-case.html

238464 flyingjohn, replying to flyingjohn, 43, #311 of 2060 🔗

90% effective, unlicensed vaccine, or my 99.59% immune system? I’ll take my chances on my immune system, thanks.

First, all politicians and all of SAGE must take it. If they don’t die, the vaccine is safe. If they do die, the country is safe.

238483 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to flyingjohn, 9, #312 of 2060 🔗

They should do like Catherine the Great who in order to demonstrate that inoculation against smallpox was safe and before rolling it out to the rest of the Russian empire had herself, her son and leading courtiers inoculated.

That’s what you call putting your money where your mouth is.

238518 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #313 of 2060 🔗

Reminds me – wasn’t it the case that Brown or Blair’s kid(s) didn’t have the MMR?

240250 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to OKUK, #314 of 2060 🔗

And neither did Bill Gates’s kids. Vaccines are for others it seems.

238864 ▶▶▶ Iansn, replying to Bart Simpson, #315 of 2060 🔗

Doris. Wancock, Shitty etc have all had it, so they don’t need to take any vaccinations.

239123 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Iansn, #316 of 2060 🔗

That’s no excuse.
Although it should be tested whether that makes a difference/endangers such person if vaccinated on top of that.
But whilst this is logical, it isn’t even discussed sofar.

240252 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Iansn, #317 of 2060 🔗

No they keep telling us that natural immunity fades fast whereas synthetic immunity through the point of a needle lasts longer. Funny it’s never worked that way before. Just another lie, from those charged with pushing the Covid Event.

239454 ▶▶ TheBigman, replying to flyingjohn, 2, #318 of 2060 🔗

In the nicest way possible, you are a fool if you believe that these people would get the vaccine.
Nothing has changed from draconian rulers we learned about in the past. Only thing that has changed is the level of propoganda has reached jedi levels.

238465 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 88, #319 of 2060 🔗

I am disappointed with how many sceptics are treating the vaccine news. I am worried that all this adulation of the vaccine will drown out those who have truly suffered from the government’s cruel, inhumane, and deeply damaging lockdown policies. Just because we get a bit of good news on the vaccine front, doesn’t mean that the suffering of those poor people automatically goes away, and it definitely doesn’t mean that it’s been worth it.

This deification of the magical, godly vaccine enforces the narrative that we are stuck with restrictions and cannot lift them ‘until a vaccine’. This is not learning to live with the disease in a sensible, balanced way. A vaccine should be a BONUS, not the endgame. If the benefits are to outweigh the harms of this vaccine – a utilitarian weighing exercise that should be carried out for any medical treatment or intervention as a matter of ethics – then it needs to be allowed to be properly tested and go through all the relevant trials. It doesn’t matter how long that takes because it needs to be done properly. I find it very interesting that all those touting ‘Stay safe! Safety first! SAFE!’ with regards to the virus are perfectly happy to roll up their sleeve for an experimental mRNA vaccine that has never been mass manufactured before.

Even if science does perform a miracle and manages to get a safe and effective vaccine out on a truncated time frame, what I don’t want to happen is for it to be widely distributed and people take it, and then for us all to ‘get back to normal’ and just forget what has happened this year. To forget about the true horrors that some people have had to endure. I appreciate that a lot of people will want to leave 2020 behind but the individuals who have caused so much undue misery and suffering this year cannot be allowed to escape punishment or accountability for that, just because there’s a magic vaccine which has the nice ‘side-effect’ of covering their arses and giving them an escape route from the enormous hole they’ve dug themselves.

It’s not Boris Johnson or Matt Hancock who are working round the clock to make the vaccine. They should take no credit for it at all. The only credit they should be taking is for destroying businesses, propagating fear, traumatising children, ruining young people’s education, letting people die for want of medical treatment, and tearing apart the social fabric.

238471 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Poppy, 39, #320 of 2060 🔗

Hear, hear!!! I think the reaction to this virus from the lockdown, anti-social distancing, muzzle wearing and now the vaccine has been cruel. If people think that the vaccine will be our way out then they’re seriously deluded.

The virus may be gone but the economic damage will be with us for years and worst of all the social and psychological damage will take decades perhaps even never to undo.

Every time I’m out and about, I see children and young people and feel sorry for them. I wonder if they and their parents are aware of the mental scars that they have and what they will be carrying inside them for the rest of their lives.

Even for some of us here we will have our own crosses to carry. I’m in my 40s and at the bare minimum, I will still have 30-40 years left on this earth. Do I really want to put up with all the crap that is coming even as the virus is in retreat?

238502 ▶▶ muzzle, replying to Poppy, 11, #321 of 2060 🔗

I agree. This is terrible timing. If we had longer to get used to the virus, I think people would have adjusted eventually but now the vaccine is here to save us, the pattern is set and this is how we will react to similar situations in future.

238507 ▶▶ annie, replying to Poppy, 38, #322 of 2060 🔗

“I find it very interesting that all those touting ‘Stay safe! Safety first! SAFE!’ with regards to the virus are perfectly happy to roll up their sleeve for an experimental mRNA vaccine that has never been mass manufactured before.”

Brilliant comment, Poppy.

238508 ▶▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to annie, 5, #323 of 2060 🔗

So true.

238511 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Poppy, 26, #324 of 2060 🔗

You don’t need to worry.The vaccine is just the start.Things are never going back to the old normal.Its going to be tied with a health/digital passport.This will be joined with Digital Currency and the trap is shut.
This whole thing has been a cover for our wonderful zero carbon future they have in store for us.

239193 ▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #325 of 2060 🔗

Absolutely bloody spot on!!

239330 ▶▶▶ TT, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 11, #326 of 2060 🔗

Wanted to comment something similar myself but am getting so tired of repeating it… couldn’t care less about a flimsy vaccine, it’s the ongoing slide into authoritarianism, the eradication of civil liberties without as much as a whimper from the populace and the silent takeover of policy in the entire bloody EU by a coterie of think tanks, unelected bureaucrats and their elitist rich ‘sponsors’ that worries me. Most worrying of all is that even a “Free Speech Union” is clearly afraid of speaking out against this, preferring instead to endlessly discuss rearguard issues and technicalities such as amounts of ‘cases”, PCR statistics, IFRs and how long lockdowns should last and what about X-Mas. There is NO resistance worth mentioning, anywhere. When will people finally realize that governments don’t intend to go back to normality, ever.

239397 ▶▶▶▶ Marialta, replying to TT, 2, #327 of 2060 🔗

Exactly what I was trying to say in my post Vaccine = Red Herring but you have put it much better:-)

240090 ▶▶▶▶ Borisbullshit, replying to TT, 2, #328 of 2060 🔗

When making the fire today I came across an article in the Mail on Sunday by the 1990s politician David Mellor who became rather famous for a highly publicised affair and a chelsea football shirt! Now I never liked Mellor and I thought the Major government was god awful but he wrote a brilliant article. Rather than getting bogged down with IFRs,PCR tests….the minutae of mathematical models of the sort Richard Pinch gets excited about, he homed in on the real issue here. That is that our parents and grandparents had vastly more backbone than current generations and would simply have learned to live with this virus and accepted any deaths as part of life. Thats what happened in 1957 and 1968 before society became too terrified to let children play out and too frightened to leave the house for a virus that has killed a mere 0.06% of the population with a median death of 82.4 years.

238513 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Poppy, 12, #329 of 2060 🔗

Quite right. Let’s assume the vaccine works 100%, what does that mean? There is a big change from the vaccines of 50 years or more. Unlike the polio and diptheria vaccines designed to prevent healthy children from falling victim to horrible diseases that kill or maim, the primary purpose of a Covid vaccine will be to allow very old people to live a few months in very poor health before they fall prey to another pathogen. But there is a great danger that by killing off established respiratory viruses, we create opportunities for novel pathogens that could affect the healthy population, as did Spanish Flu. Covid itself might have got traction because hundreds of millions of people were receiving tge fku vaccine.

239075 ▶▶▶ sam, replying to OKUK, 3, #330 of 2060 🔗

sorry if is another topic but i agree is like killing the soil with pesticides[ the monsanto /bayer way ] instead of living with nature . we need the bacteria [ have been reading a lot about healthy bacteria needed for good health]
is why we need natrual immunity get colds not try to prevent them. there’s no way i m getting an RNA vaccine is like GM poison

238543 ▶▶ FlynnQuill, replying to Poppy, 11, #331 of 2060 🔗

People need prosecuting. The government, Sage, MPs that voted for lockdowns and the BBC, et al for pushing the dangerous propaganda that has led to many deaths of people staying at home and dying due to their lies.

238552 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Poppy, 5, #332 of 2060 🔗

808,000 redundancies, unemployment 4.2%
BBC 8am news.

238652 ▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to karenovirus, 3, #333 of 2060 🔗

Is that 4.2% based on the benefit claimant count? If so I’m sure the real figure will be much higher.

238665 ▶▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 6, #334 of 2060 🔗

Replying to myself here as I can’t edit that post for some reason. Add in to the mix the number of ‘under employed’ people working reduced hours and people who have severely reduced incomes, for example, airline pilots delivering for Tesco etc and we have a recipe for disaster!

240043 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, #335 of 2060 🔗

You can multiply it by five and when the furloughs end it’s anyone’s guess.

238598 ▶▶ kf99, replying to Poppy, 6, #336 of 2060 🔗

Agreed, It will be seen forever as a vindication of the NZ style approach. “We just have to wait exactly 8 months for a vaccine to appear – everybody inside!”

238704 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Poppy, 13, #337 of 2060 🔗

The announcement of a vaccine is far from good news. It was clear from very early on that the Covid event was always about getting vaccines into as many people as possible. The real purpose of the oncoming plethora of rushed vaccines is likely to be highly sinister and only simple souls will be baring their arms.

238821 ▶▶▶ awildgoose, replying to Rowan, 6, #338 of 2060 🔗

The real purposes of the vax are population tracking and control.

240048 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to awildgoose, 1, #339 of 2060 🔗

Control and depopulation, which is what Bill Gates has been advocating for many years. This is bill’s eureka moment and he isn’t going to waste it.

240000 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Poppy, 1, #340 of 2060 🔗

Send them to the Tower of London.

240086 ▶▶ James007, replying to Poppy, 2, #341 of 2060 🔗

I completely agree with you Poppy. I can see why the government are so keen to roll out a vaccine to make people feel ‘safe’. I’m disappointed with commentators saying they think this will save Johnson’s leadership, as if lockdowns were a bit of a mis-step!
We must never forgot what has happened this year and who has been responsible. Even if the Conservatives go into the next election with a new leader, re-branded and ever more the ‘NHS’ party, we must not forget how fundamentlly they have failed, and how they betrayed important principles for their own brand and careers.

238473 JustMe, replying to JustMe, 1, #342 of 2060 🔗

Matt Hancock will be talking to JHB shortly – TalkRADIO – https://onlineradiobox.com/search?cs=uk.talk&played=1&q=talkradio&s=All%20styles

238495 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to JustMe, 6, #343 of 2060 🔗

JHB…this morning she seemed to be asserting that all electoral practices in the USA can be relied upon as honest and that all vaccines are by definition safe. Curious positions to take up after having previously demanded an evidence-based approach to pandemic management. She also seems to have swallowed the happy pill taken by all the BBC presenters giving the impression, as did Emma Barnett on Newsnight last night, that we can look forward to a full return to normality in the Spring, “thanks to the vaccine”.

238962 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to OKUK, 3, #344 of 2060 🔗

The vaccine is the only quick way out and thinking otherwise is delusional. Not because there is a problem that only a vaccine can resolve. Not either because the vaccine works – it probably doesn’t. But simply because our entire society and that of the entire world has been re-arranged in the last 8 months around the idea that there is an intolerable danger that can only be resolved by a vaccine. And there is going to be no change of course. No matter how loudly some of us scream.

The most we can hope for is that it is all a big pretence, that they won’t make it compulsory and that just the availability of the vaccine is considered enough to let us get on with our lives again.

But I doubt it. I suspect there will be tracing and immunity passports and regular semi-compulsory vaccinations going forward. We gave away our freedom in March and we’re not getting it back that easily.

238498 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to JustMe, 6, #345 of 2060 🔗

I was wondering what had happened to Handjob. Thought he’d been self isolating after the “leak” last week.

David Mellor has an interesting take on why no-one has been sacked from the Gang of Four in the article ”Boris subcontracted to Whitby and Vallance”

238475 FlynnQuill, replying to FlynnQuill, 58, #346 of 2060 🔗

My wife is a Pharmacist in the North East of England who works for the NHS. They were told yesterday (from the government) that the vaccine will be rolled out in December. Instructions of when and where and asking for volunteers to work seven days a week administering the vaccine. Even instructions on how and where to store the vaccine. It has to be kept at a very low temperature and most trusts won’t have the facilities to store it. The refrigerator to store the vaccine costs 35k a pop. This will come out of each surgeries budget.

My wife has been a Pharmacist for over twenty years and has a PHD in Pharmacology and is a prescribing Pharmacist, so she knows her onions. Her advice, don’t touch this vaccine with a shitty stick. Vaccines take anywhere between five and ten years to come to market, not seven months.

238487 ▶▶ alw, replying to FlynnQuill, 17, #347 of 2060 🔗

Exactly what my medic friends have said.

238601 ▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to alw, 19, #348 of 2060 🔗

Same thing one of my old services buddies said. He was in the Bio-Chem unit and then worked at Portman Down’s for years. Funny enough the security services have been told not to take the vaccine (again first hand sources)..Funny that.

238755 ▶▶▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to Thomas_E, 7, #349 of 2060 🔗

Maybe because they need to be in good health to control the herd 🙁

240230 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Sceptic Hank, #350 of 2060 🔗

And make sure the herd takes its medicine. I wonder just who will be supplying the £35K fridges.

238501 ▶▶ annie, replying to FlynnQuill, 11, #351 of 2060 🔗

I’ll take that advice.

238553 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to FlynnQuill, 18, #352 of 2060 🔗

This is critical information. How many people in the medical profession are going to be brave enough to blow the whistle? Do they realise just how much is at stake here?

The brainwashing has gone much deeper than even I expected. Judging by the reactions I have seen, plenty of sceptical people are obviously going to be taking this vaccine. I expect uptake in excess of 90%.

238761 ▶▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to Richard O, 4, #353 of 2060 🔗

They will get struck off unless they all band together, such is the power of the Medical Cabal. But it can be done.

238564 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to FlynnQuill, 1, #354 of 2060 🔗

Hancock BBC R4 8am news
‘The vaccine can be stored at less than -70 degrees in the 48 hours before use, temperatures that GPs and pharmacies are used too.’

238589 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to karenovirus, 7, #355 of 2060 🔗

temperatures that GPs and pharmacies are used too

Interesting. My surgery has a BEKO fridge freezer. I’m doomed!

238639 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to karenovirus, 7, #356 of 2060 🔗

The only place where I’ve seen anything that approaches that temperature are the liquid nitrogen used to remove skin tumours.
How long does it take to warm up to a useable temperature?
Does it have to warm up slowly in a fridge or at room temperature?
Once it is warm enough to use how long does it remain active before the RNA denatures?
Has Hancock realised what he’s saying? Does he think that -14 degrees for example is less than -70 degrees?

238713 ▶▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to p02099003, 5, #357 of 2060 🔗

A sort of vaccine Chicken Kiev. Once defrosted cannot be refrozen.

238876 ▶▶▶▶▶ Iansn, replying to thinkaboutit, 1, #358 of 2060 🔗

you can but it wont be safe, woops !

239249 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to thinkaboutit, #359 of 2060 🔗

He did say it can be less cold than -70 up to four times before use but did not elaborate.

239233 ▶▶▶▶ DickieA, replying to p02099003, 6, #360 of 2060 🔗

They could use a company such as Genus ABS that already have a logistics network using liquid nitrogen to distribute bull semen. As an added bonus, they could muddle up the vaccine with a “sample” when they inject Boris – could grow him some proper bollocks.

239246 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to p02099003, #361 of 2060 🔗

I’m sure from the context he meant ‘less cold than -70’.

238664 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to FlynnQuill, #362 of 2060 🔗

Flynn, can your wife confirm that what Hancock is saying here in karen’s post below is true?

Hancock BBC R4 8am news ‘The vaccine can be stored at less than -70 degrees in the 48 hours before use, temperatures that GPs and pharmacies are used too.’

239255 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Ceriain, 2, #363 of 2060 🔗

See above, he meant less cold than -70 degrees for the 48 hours before use.

239303 ▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to karenovirus, 1, #364 of 2060 🔗

“less cold”

Gotcha! Thanks, k. 🙂

238860 ▶▶ TyRade, replying to FlynnQuill, 4, #365 of 2060 🔗

I should have saved the ‘shitty stick’ I just sent back to the colon cancer testers, not to touch the new vaccine by. Damn!

238477 John Stone, replying to John Stone, 4, #366 of 2060 🔗

From Med Page today (I5 Nov):

Peter Hotez, MD, PhD, of Baylor College of Medicine in Houston, observed that for the next few months, producing vaccines for the American population will be problematic, so it won’t be an issue in this country for a while.

“Even as the first vaccines become more widely available they may be only partially protective to reduce severity of illness and won’t stop transmission anyway so we won’t need to pay people for that purpose,” he told MedPage Today . “So I don’t foresee a reason to pay anyone to get vaccinated against COVID-19.”

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/89512

”Won’t stop transmission anyway”. Obviously, the government briefing with its emphasis on public duty to be vaccinated implied that the vaccine inhibited transmission but Hotez says no. We need clarification.

238546 ▶▶ John Stone, replying to John Stone, #367 of 2060 🔗

Should read 5 Nov not 15

238479 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 22, #368 of 2060 🔗

First they throw the disabled under the bus and now they’re doing the same to the children.

It beggars belief that they’re targeting children for this vaccine even when repeated studies have shown that children are not liable to catch this virus and spread it to others. In their rush, they’re throwing child safety protocols out of the window.

Those who have been tasked with looking after children’s welfare such as that tosser in Liverpool have exposed themselves to be nothing other than unprincipled careerists.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not against a vaccine. However why are we rushing something that’s been not properly tested over a virus that has a 99 point something-something percent recovery rate? I’ve never had a flu jab and will rather let the Good Body take care of itself.

238892 ▶▶ Iansn, replying to Bart Simpson, #369 of 2060 🔗

Where are they targeting children, the dont even make the magic list of 10? They are targeting them for ‘compulsory’ testing that way they can take out entire families if anyone in the school bubble tests positive. If you want to be safe dont get tested if you dont feel ill.

238484 TheBluePill, replying to TheBluePill, 24, #370 of 2060 🔗

Every time I look at the BBC News website I find they have sunk to new unimaginable lows.

Covid ‘raises new psychiatric disorders risk’
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54874010

From the headline you might assume they are are referring to the Covid RESPONSE causing psychiatric disorders. No, they literally mean that the virus is causing psychiatric problems (i.e. another flavour of long covid). The level of stupidity is really hurting my brain.

What is next? Covid causes sufferers to be more likely to become unemployed?

238496 ▶▶ annie, replying to TheBluePill, 11, #371 of 2060 🔗

The fear porn merchants are scraping out the dregs from the barrel.

238519 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to TheBluePill, 4, #372 of 2060 🔗

At least the piece concludes with a sensible contribution
But Jo Daniels, from the University of Bath, said further research was needed before coming to any conclusions.”We should be aware that poorer psychological outcomes are common in those who experience physical health problems of any nature,” she said.”Being acutely or chronically unwell is simply a difficult experience.”

238661 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Charlie Blue, 7, #373 of 2060 🔗

I was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis a few years ago and I needed surgery. Was touch and go if I was to meet the white light.

I suffered insomnia from the experience of illness and hospitalisation. This continued after I left and was in recovery.

I put it down to the hospital experience over everything else. I’d never had been in hospital for anything before and sharing a ward with elderly men who were up and down, talking to themselves at night, needed constant care. I even had to help them get dressed at times because nobody was there to help them. The nurses often just ignored their calls, especially at night. I got so restless that the insomnia kicked in and stayed with me.

238536 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to TheBluePill, 7, #374 of 2060 🔗

I’m hearing the sound of the bottom of the barrel being scrapped with this.

238485 Commander Jameson, replying to Commander Jameson, 11, #375 of 2060 🔗

The timing is more likely to relate to a point where you would expect to see maximum efficacy based on how long the follow-up is.

Several of the criticisms that might immediately come to mind are actually not relevant. First, the number of events is low but the difference between groups is huge. This makes timing important as a difference of 90% cannot possibly get any larger. Second, the point that deaths are not studied as an endpoint – this isn’t feasible without an impossibly enormous trial, and isn’t a problem as if you stop infection you will also stop deaths from infection.

That fact that you would need such a huge trial to demonstrate efficacy on mortality is what kills the argument for widespread, as opposed to targeted, vaccine use. We only care about lives saved, and in the population studied this is going to be, generously, 1 in 2000 of those vaccinated (depending on what the IFR is, and estimates of that vary). The NNT in vulnerable, elderly patients will be considerably higher, if it works in those patients. The reality is likely to be lower because of pre-existing widespread exposure, at least in Europe and North America. Australia and New Zealand should be very interested in this vaccine, for most of the rest of the world the horse has bolted and it’s too late to make much difference.

Small effects should be expressed this way – it’s called number needed to treat. Relative risk (that 90% number) doesn’t tell you the full picture, whereas “up to 1 in 2000 will avoid death by covid” does.

I can’t find a “contact” button, how do I get in touch with Toby anonymously to see if he wants an anonymous analysis of this rather limited data?

238490 ▶▶▶ Commander Jameson, replying to Sarigan, 1, #377 of 2060 🔗

Thank you!

238492 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Commander Jameson, 2, #378 of 2060 🔗

Very interesting points

Look forward to seeing more

238493 ▶▶ annie, replying to Commander Jameson, 3, #379 of 2060 🔗

Please do supply one, we need it.

238499 ▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to Commander Jameson, 1, #380 of 2060 🔗

Very interesting look forward to an update

238488 alw, replying to alw, 14, #381 of 2060 🔗

Vaccine lies exposed

238642 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to alw, 4, #382 of 2060 🔗

And this

238651 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #383 of 2060 🔗

Nothing to worry about then. Bloody hell!

239338 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #384 of 2060 🔗

I still don’t get what is meant by 90% effective.

239258 ▶▶ AfterAll, replying to alw, 1, #385 of 2060 🔗

Yes, 2022 is the planned end of the Phase III trial. It has been presumed for some time that the vaccines will be released well before then. https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2020/09/23/covid-19-vaccine-protocols-reveal-that-trials-are-designed-to-succeed/#4a43de1c5247

238503 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 6, #386 of 2060 🔗

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/11/10/world/science-health-world/china-vaccine-trial-halted-brazil/

Serious event in Sinovac C–19 vaccine in Brazil

Interesting times.Now is the time for the Western vaccineproducers to start stop the spread of Russian and Chinese vaccines. Perhaps the truce between the western vaccine developers will also stop when one is in the lead in making profits. More stories to come amongst the non-Pfizer ones?

238539 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to swedenborg, 1, #387 of 2060 🔗

Serious adverse events that occur in drug trials include death, immediate risk of death, long term or serious incapacitation, and hospitalization.

238505 alw, 2, #388 of 2060 🔗

Review & critique of the Whitty/Vallance evidence to the S&TSC, 3 Nov 2020

https://politicsaired.files.wordpress.com/2020/11/201106_stsc_review.docx

238515 TheBigman, replying to TheBigman, 14, #389 of 2060 🔗

So. The vaccine is an expensive gamble to do what otherwise should and could easily be done by just letting us get out and get on with it.

The main difference is that by contracting it naturally (increasingly unlikely as its dying away) means you don’t get all the nasty chemicals along with it direct into your veins from a company that is free from litigation for any harm caused (there will be harm and people will die from the vaccine – not a solution in anyone’s eyes

238530 ▶▶ IanE, replying to TheBigman, 3, #390 of 2060 🔗

Yes, but be reasonable, lots of the ‘great and good’ will be raking in loadsamoney!

240019 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to TheBigman, #391 of 2060 🔗

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

238522 Stuart, 7, #392 of 2060 🔗

Just a little Army-administered prick and we’ll be at bovine immunity in no time even if it doesn’t exist, according to Wancock.

238524 Richard O, replying to Richard O, 31, #393 of 2060 🔗

The Royal Society is so concerned about uptake that it is calling for anti-vaxxers to be prosecuted if they spread misinformation about the dangers.

So anyone who expresses any concerns about this vaccine could be liable for criminal prosecution. Despite the fact that it is going to be distributed two years before the trial is completed. As Toby is so fond of saying, what kind of new hell is this?

238545 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Richard O, 10, #394 of 2060 🔗

It might look better if they removed the non liability clause

238571 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Dan Clarke, 10, #395 of 2060 🔗

It might also look better if the claim that a vaccine will lead to a return to normal was even remotely credible. It is the biggest lie of all.

238592 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Richard O, 11, #396 of 2060 🔗

I love that word ‘misinformation’.

Either something is true or it is not.

Censorship is spreading at a remarkable rate.

238859 ▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to calchas, #397 of 2060 🔗

It reminds all too much of this:

https://youtu.be/qW4i35SzkLE?t=162

“Contain the spread of misinformation”

238525 Pat, replying to Pat, 7, #398 of 2060 🔗

We appear to be close to herd immunity as far as the virus is concerned. Panic, however is still virulent, especially in government circles.
A vaccine would be of great use in ending the panic.

238549 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Pat, 12, #399 of 2060 🔗

It may be of use in ending the panic but what we really need is the panic to end because people realise there is no need to panic, otherwise we risk a repeat of this madness every few years

238566 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Pat, 1, #400 of 2060 🔗

Yes, “Give the masses beer and circuses”
Apologies for a very likely misquote.
Corrections welcomed.

238621 ▶▶▶ Shep, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #401 of 2060 🔗

Bread and circuses 👍 😎

238641 ▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Shep, 6, #402 of 2060 🔗

Otherwise known as ‘Bake Off’ and ‘Strictly’!

238644 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Shep, #403 of 2060 🔗

Thank you.

238795 ▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Shep, #404 of 2060 🔗

“Panem et circenses” in the original Klingon.

238850 ▶▶ TyRade, replying to Pat, #405 of 2060 🔗

aren’t we well into diminishing returns for the efficacy of pricks?

238527 p02099003, 5, #406 of 2060 🔗

Although Pfizer keeps getting mentioned there are two other companies involved BioNTech from Germany and Fosun Pharmaceuticals from China.

In September 2019, BioNTech signed an agreement with the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation to develop HIV and tuberculosis programs to identify and develop preclinical vaccine and immunotherapy candidates for the prevention of HIV and tuberculosis infections and for the long-term antiretroviral therapy-free remission of HIV diseases

238528 Eddy, replying to Eddy, 5, #407 of 2060 🔗

Its’s amazing how quickly they announced this after the US election. Shame Trump will be in power for the next 4 years. FRAUD.

238532 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Eddy, 8, #408 of 2060 🔗

Actually it would be great if Trump were to be in power for the next four years – but I guess a small typo intruded!

238538 ▶▶▶ Eddy, replying to IanE, 6, #409 of 2060 🔗

I was being sarcastic. Trump will be there hopefully.

238548 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Eddy, 17, #410 of 2060 🔗

Trump’s odds have come in from 24/1 to 11/1 in the last couple of days. Mitch McConnell, leader in the Senate, came out last night backing Trump publicly. It’s far from over.

238550 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #411 of 2060 🔗

Good to hear!

238581 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #412 of 2060 🔗

Let’s hope he can still pull through. Isn’t the final deadline 14th Dec?

238608 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #413 of 2060 🔗

Mrs TJN has been explaining the maths to me, with the different combinations of states (haven’t got time to work it out for myself). I’d say 11/1 is worth a punt.

Also Mrs TJN drew my attention to this:

https://twitter.com/APhilosophae/status/1325592112428163072

Where’s Richard Pinch when we need him?

238537 propref, replying to propref, 17, #414 of 2060 🔗

Perhaps the main purpose of the vaccine is really to give the politicians the cover they need to be able to back track on their panic in March and the mistake they made in locking down the world. I welcome its arrival for no other reason. I will not be heading to take it myself anytime soon as I am very concerned about possible side effects and the rushed nature of this vaccine

238559 ▶▶ TheBigman, replying to propref, 21, #415 of 2060 🔗

That’s the purpose of the oppression and current propoganda. People will accept anything to ‘get back to normal’ no matter how heinous the thing is.
Normal is not requiring an injection of chemicals to be allowed to go to a pub for a virus that’s fast becoming a new common cold for over 90% of those who get it.

IF YOU STAND FOR NOTHING YOU WILL FALL FOR ANYTHING!

238605 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to TheBigman, 2, #416 of 2060 🔗

Well said. Sure, it’ll keep the sheep from bleeting. But do not think this gets back to normal. It needs to resisted.

238576 ▶▶ DRW, replying to propref, 4, #417 of 2060 🔗

Exactly, they are desperate for it because it’s the only possible escape for them that validates the dEaDlY vIrUs narrative.

239051 ▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to DRW, 1, #418 of 2060 🔗

That’s the absolute best case scenario. The worst case scenario is that the vaccine is part of a global conspiracy to control humanity by gaslighting us with an endless cycle of pandemic/lockdown/vaccine/pandemic.

238541 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 18, #419 of 2060 🔗

A breakthrough for what? A ‘virus’ that has affected just over a million worldwide with serious health conditions? Surely its an over reaction,

238600 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Dan Clarke, #420 of 2060 🔗

You would like to see the NICE economic appraisal on these vaccines. It’s got to be chock full of Neill Ferguson style Modelling

239225 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #421 of 2060 🔗

That would be Neill Ferguson from the Bill Gates funded Imperial College.

238551 TheBigman, replying to TheBigman, 28, #422 of 2060 🔗

I hope everyone here remembers that the current ‘conservative’ party are no different to the Labour Party. Remember this when it comes to the next vote. They both want to destroy our way of lives and happy to allow mass poisoning, sorry ‘vaccination’ of a product that is taking less than a fifth of the usual time for safety.

DO NOT VOTE FOR THE MAIN PARTIES.

238554 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to TheBigman, 21, #423 of 2060 🔗

Agree. I will NEVER AGAIN vote for the three main parties.

And if the Greens think they will get my vote, sorry, they won’t either.

238558 ▶▶ IanE, replying to TheBigman, 3, #424 of 2060 🔗

Yep, if voting changed anything, we would never be allowed the vote. At least in the USA they had a real choice, albeit extreme exposure to voting fraud!

239227 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to TheBigman, #425 of 2060 🔗

Oh yes it’s a project of mass poisoning indeed and it’s all about depopulation. Happy times .

238555 John Stone, replying to John Stone, 3, #426 of 2060 🔗

The whole business – not of course limited to Pfizer – of releasing details of trials is highly problematic. What happens if someone wants to dump their shares? Lot of share dumping with Moderna?

238786 ▶▶ RichardJames, replying to John Stone, 3, #427 of 2060 🔗

You misunderstand the process; you are an honourable person, so you cannot get your head round how this corrupt system works.

This is a winner-takes-all game. The share price of the losers drops through the floor. The winner “saves the world” and makes riches beyond the realms of avarice, for a vaccine which will “need” to be administered every year. Ad Infinitum.

This means that the up front “investment” can be huge, because the potential profits are even bigger.

238557 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 27, #428 of 2060 🔗

Am I missing something here? The vaccine trial began in July and in the same month the MD of Pfizer said they had 40 million doses ready to supply. Don’t you wait until the outcome of the trial until you manufacture 40 million doses? Unless of course it’s a pre-existing vaccine rebranded…

238580 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Achilles, 10, #429 of 2060 🔗

Exactly, this stinks to high heaven. Somebody needs to do a detailed investigation into the manufacturing of these doses. They will be risking their life to do so.

239089 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Richard O, 4, #430 of 2060 🔗

The whole of the Covid fiasco stinks badly. It was clear from the earliest days that this event was all about the vaccines. It is now all about keeping the fear going till the frightened public is clamouring for their debilitating and depopulating vaccines. Get injected at great peril.

238582 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Achilles, 6, #431 of 2060 🔗

Are you suggesting some jiggery-pokery going on here, A? Surely not! 😉

238606 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Achilles, 2, #432 of 2060 🔗

My first thought.

238631 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Achilles, 8, #433 of 2060 🔗

40 million doses of an untrialled vaccine that the government has already bought. Sitting in a cold store in Belgium apparently.

238765 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to karenovirus, 2, #434 of 2060 🔗

Perzackly. At worst, Big Pharma just switches the purchase contract to another batch and disposes of the old ones. The majority of the profits are still retained by the company.

238845 ▶▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to karenovirus, 1, #435 of 2060 🔗

Be funny if there was a power failure where all these cold stores are…? What a waste of all those lovely vaccines…

239095 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to karenovirus, #436 of 2060 🔗

It’s been waiting there years, no doubt.

238745 ▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Achilles, 4, #437 of 2060 🔗

You forget the profits. The majority of profits will go to those “most able to supply the stocks”. The losses are only from the actual physical doses, which are trifling compared with the research costs, and in any case are a tax write-off. The vast majority of profits will go to those who have the stock ready to be supplied, and the vast majority of that stock will have been paid for by government in advance.

Remember, it’s your money, not theirs, so they don’t give a monkey’s if it is ultimately wasted.

238921 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Achilles, 1, #438 of 2060 🔗

Or a saline placebo.

239101 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #439 of 2060 🔗

Te saline placebo is only for those they don’t want dead. Most of us will get the real thing.

238568 DRW, replying to DRW, 17, #440 of 2060 🔗

Morning all. Just saying that yesterday’s news hasn’t impacted our cause at all.
The Pfizer vaccine still needs a mininum of two months more data for approval, and execs have said a mass rollout won’t be until next Spring at the earliest.
The Clown Show episode, that symphony of bollocks about train-riding bugle toots in shootouts was absolutely laughable, even the Groan struggled to take it seriously.
Both of these were trumpeted to distract from the increasing scrutiny over LD2, the inconvenient numbers and much lower compliance. We still haven’t lost yet and still have some encouraging good news.

238591 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to DRW, 7, #441 of 2060 🔗

The fact that ANY rollout is being considered for next month is shocking, and potentially the death knell for this movement assuming it is accompanied by a massive crackdown on free speech.

238835 ▶▶▶ TyRade, replying to Richard O, 2, #442 of 2060 🔗

in June the head of the FDA insisted a vaccine announcement/rollout would not be a “political decision”. At the end of this FT report

f8ecf7b5-f8d2-4726-ba3f-233b8497b91a

you’ll see a letter flagged comparing a rushed vaccine release to …thalidomide! Implying Trump would be a baby deformer if he tried this. Now, it seems, any dirty syringe with Tizer in it gets hosannahs!

238595 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to DRW, 5, #443 of 2060 🔗

Even if this ended tomorrow the collateral damage caused by their policies will be felt for years. They have locked down healthy people, infringing on personal freedoms for a start. However they have been involved in human rights abuses through DNRs in care homes.

Those responsible should be perused regardless.

This is farming the BBC News site for Northern Ireland this morning. And it make suo around 70% of today’s headlines.

“Redundancies at Highs”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54885209

“Lockdown Created Abuse Perfect Storm”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54879863

“2021 School Exams To Be Cancelled”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54882421

“£7m Further Bailout of NI Firms”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54880677

“Food Banks Busier Than Ever”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54815617

“4,000 Wait List For Disability Payments Review”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54829742

“Respite Cuts For Children”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54827331

And they still can’t help themselves :

“Extend Lockdown To Save Christmas”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54835337

Absolutely criminal

240388 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to DRW, #444 of 2060 🔗

Love your King’s English. Read Jack Kerouac’s ‘The Subterraneans’.

238572 TheBigman, replying to TheBigman, #445 of 2060 🔗

How do I contact lockdown sceptics?

238577 ▶▶ Eddy, replying to TheBigman, 4, #446 of 2060 🔗
238636 ▶▶▶ Basileus, replying to Eddy, 2, #447 of 2060 🔗

<broad smile>

238578 Aban, replying to Aban, 5, #449 of 2060 🔗

Modelling the change in 7 day average patients in English hospitals. Rate of Increase has fallen from peak of 66.8% on 19 sep to currently 20%. Rate of increase is Decreasing at 0.94% at a broadly linear rate per day. Current trajectory puts peak of 13,715 patients in English hospitals (7 day average) on 26 November, then starts falling.

238593 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Aban, 1, #450 of 2060 🔗

Interesting. Can you ‘model’ admissions and mortality as well? To me they look as is if they are levelling off”.

238579 Ceriain, replying to Ceriain, 15, #451 of 2060 🔗

I’ve long been an advocate of the theory that the majority of the elderly got taken by Covid earlier this year simply because they were, as Ivor Cummins call them, the ‘dry tinder’ left over from last years mild flu season.

Interesting that the story linked above: https://www.aier.org/article/swedens-dry-tinder-accounts-for-many-covid-19-deaths/ suggests this to be true in Sweden who, in fact, had two mild flu seasons in a row.

Where am I going with this? Well, the Covid vaccine, of course.

The wonderful thing about the Covid vaccine is that it will stop all our grandads, grandmas, and elderly parents dying from Covid, and then we can all go back to losing them TO THE FLU in their thousands next bad flu season, as normal .

Bet the Government haven’t thought of that with their wonderful vaccine.

238602 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Ceriain, 1, #452 of 2060 🔗

Last bad flu was the “aussie” flu strain in 2017. “But just think how bad flu seasons would be without flu jabs.”

238618 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to DRW, 4, #453 of 2060 🔗

“But just think how bad flu seasons would be without flu jabs.”

Yes, I know. Even normal flu seasons take the elderly in their thousands, jab or no jab; the French get hammered most years by flu.

My point was that the Covid vaccine will just return us to the status quo, as far as the elderly are concerned. People won’t die from Covid, just the flu, as they always do.

238633 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Ceriain, 3, #454 of 2060 🔗

I agree, flu will still kill, and so will covid and the 5 other seasonal ronas, vax or no vax.

238638 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to DRW, 2, #455 of 2060 🔗

Pretty much, yes.

238727 ▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Ceriain, 3, #456 of 2060 🔗

Yes, but that won’t matter; the vaccine Big Pharma will have made their profits. And the next year, and the next, and the next.

238737 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to RichardJames, 2, #457 of 2060 🔗

Yep, so true. People really don’t know when they are being played, do they?

238587 Danny, replying to Danny, 17, #458 of 2060 🔗

So a rushed vaccine with no long term results as to side effects and a 90% success rate, is less of a risk to people than venturing outside under Covid, with its 99.7% survival rate?
Truly herd mentality.

238590 ▶▶ Eddy, replying to Danny, 3, #459 of 2060 🔗

What happens to the 10% I wonder?

238627 ▶▶ Van Allen, replying to Danny, 2, #460 of 2060 🔗

And the 90% success rate refers only to the reduction in mild symptoms.

239063 ▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Danny, 1, #461 of 2060 🔗

No, you don’t understand. You already have a 99.7% survival rate. So if you take a vaccine with a 90% success rate, you get a survival rate of 189.7%. Now, what sort of lunatic would turn down the chance of that??

238603 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 9, #462 of 2060 🔗

And, as predicted, we have been dobbed in. Just received a letter from the council.

238609 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to kh1485, #463 of 2060 🔗

Saying what?

238615 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Cecil B, 31, #464 of 2060 🔗

Instructing us to not use our outside seating for takeaways. But, a customer can sit at a bench five feet away from one of our tables. Apparently, some bastard took photos. Shame on the fuckwit who did this …

238629 ▶▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to kh1485, 18, #465 of 2060 🔗

Up to you, but I would ignore it. The Council people know the game is up

The person who took the photos will be back, trust me it’s human nature

Large poster in window

To the person who sent photographs to the council

We know who the collaborators are

There will be a day of reckoning

238634 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to kh1485, 11, #466 of 2060 🔗

And the BID chairwoman just scuttled past looking very sheepish. I hate, hate, hate this country.

238650 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to kh1485, #467 of 2060 🔗

BID?

238653 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Cecil B, 7, #468 of 2060 🔗

Business ‘Improvement’ District. The inverted commas are intentional. They basically tax you on threat of prosecution and they squander the money on stupid initiatives. They don’t improve anything.

238705 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kh1485, 8, #469 of 2060 🔗

Ah, what we used to call a ‘protection racket’.

238719 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to kh1485, 3, #470 of 2060 🔗

Yes, as in “The Godfather” part II; “Just give me a little to wet my beak”. Remember what happened to him.

238646 ▶▶▶▶ DocRC, replying to kh1485, 4, #471 of 2060 🔗

Almost as if she wants to destroy your business…….

238649 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to DocRC, 5, #472 of 2060 🔗

We are not believers in the BID cult, so probably yes.

238648 ▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to kh1485, 2, #473 of 2060 🔗

Unfortunately it is in the regulations:
15(4) For the purposes of paragraph (1), except where paragraph (5) applies, references to food or drink being for consumption on premises, include a reference to consumption on an area adjacent to the premises of the restricted business or restricted service where seating is made available for its customers (whether or not by the business or the provider of the service) or which its customers habitually use for consumption of food or drink served by the business or service is to be treated as part of the premises of that business or service.

Which would imply that that bench five feet away is also part of your premises… Never understood how you are meant to sell takeaways and there being nowhere sensible to eat it. I suspect you will have to comply sadly.

238673 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to davews, 7, #474 of 2060 🔗

It’s not though, it’s in a public park. We were only doing what we were permitted to do last time. Easy for someone to shut me down when they are still earning.

238702 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kh1485, #475 of 2060 🔗

How (according to them) is using that seating an offence or contravention of guidance?

238709 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sam Vimes, 9, #476 of 2060 🔗

They’ve quoted what davews has below. And someone has been taking photos over the past week – nice. Welcome to stasi Britain everyone. Glad my poor grandfather isn’t around to see this.

238787 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to kh1485, 6, #477 of 2060 🔗

Keep an eye lifting for photographers. And take pictures back. Send to police, complaining that you believe your premises (probably among others) are being “cased” by these people, probably for criminal activities. Put copies of the pictures in your window, perhaps warning these are criminals targeting local businesses.

238817 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #478 of 2060 🔗

Thanks. I did wonder whether they broke some sort of privacy rules. Surely taking photos of someone without consent is breaking some sort of law.

238900 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to kh1485, 4, #479 of 2060 🔗

Technically no, provided they are in a public space, such as from the street, and that the photograph is not of something obscene. But you are well within your rights to challenge them.

239092 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to kh1485, 3, #480 of 2060 🔗

It would be great if you could photograph them. Which you could as it’s apublic park, it’s just having the technology to do it.

238612 ▶▶ DRW, replying to kh1485, #481 of 2060 🔗

Oh dear, I bet it was a snotty one too.

238619 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to DRW, 5, #482 of 2060 🔗

It was from the cow who nearly had me hospitalised against my wishes a few weeks ago. And, she can’t even get the name of the shop right.

238620 ▶▶▶▶ Eddy, replying to kh1485, 1, #483 of 2060 🔗

Council bitch? lots of em around.

238626 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to kh1485, 10, #484 of 2060 🔗

I am at breaking point just following the news.

You are on the front lines confronting this shit in the flesh, trying to destroy your livelihood. I have no idea where you get your strength from.

238616 ▶▶ TJN, replying to kh1485, 5, #485 of 2060 🔗

Oh dear. I guess you’re smart enough to see it off though.

It’s about time Toby made you Sceptic of the Week one week.

238723 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to TJN, #486 of 2060 🔗

Consider me a donor for a trophy when this sh1t is over. Don’t forget to contact me.

238887 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to kh1485, 1, #487 of 2060 🔗

Has she heard about the rumour about council workers salaries being dropped by 50%? The ‘rules’ might not be so attractive then

239067 ▶▶ Cranmer, replying to kh1485, 1, #488 of 2060 🔗

You probably don’t need me to say this, but check your rights should the police come knocking. Main thing is not to accept a fixed penalty notice but say you will only respond to a court summons, apparently.

238622 kf99, 3, #489 of 2060 🔗

That James Herriot quote from Toby is very interesting and topical.

The recent Channel5 All Creatures was a big hit (after being rejected by the beeb) and is having a Christmas special. There’s so little programming around it will be a massive highlight in the schedules. Anyone in the Mail or wherever going to write the obvious article “Herriot endorsed herd immunity…”

238630 davews, replying to davews, 4, #490 of 2060 🔗

Cecil B posted on Sunday about the remembrance wreathes that had been removed ‘as an infection risk’. I posted the story on one of my other forums, aiming to get it publicity, but they, including a few covidoids, are unbelieving and I am now getting nasty comments for my efforts. Has there been any updates and has it appeared anywhere in the press?

238637 ▶▶ leggy, replying to davews, 2, #491 of 2060 🔗

Same question from me. I searched for any related articles yesterday, but failed to find any.

238643 Mark, replying to Mark, 20, #492 of 2060 🔗

But let’s not be too churlish. If it really is 90% effective, protects the weak as well as the strong, has no major side effects and turns out to be as effective against other strains – all big ifs – it may help to calm everybody down.

But let’s absolutely be forthright enough to keep pointing out that, at the very best that could be said for it, this is a colossal waste of money that could and should have been spent on things that are actually useful and productive, and actually save more lives, if only the majority of the population hadn’t allowed themselves to be whipped up into a hysterical lather of fearfulness over a jumped up cold.

238741 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mark, 2, #493 of 2060 🔗

This is true. And it’s not just the lockdown zealots working themselves up into a frenzy. Our own lunatic fringe have ramped up their hysteria here as well.

238752 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #494 of 2060 🔗

You’d have to be more specific, but as a general point imo people being hysterical in small minority campaigning groups isn’t a problem in anything like the way it is when they are in positions of authority or governance. (I’m aware of the issues over credibility versus openness, etc obviously).

238773 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mark, 6, #495 of 2060 🔗

It can be a big problem for campaigning groups, when people who thought they were campaigning for one thing, suddenly find their movement campaigning for something completely different.

Using myself as an example, I’m here to end lockdowns and restoration of rights and civil liberties. Everything else is a distraction and waters down the core.

238808 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #496 of 2060 🔗

There has always been some tension here because of the question of whether this is solely a lockdown campaigning site, or is Toby’s blog.

Fundamentally, it’s the latter, and that’s how he has run it – he has never been reluctant to raise other issues above the line, nor has he instructed commenters to stick to pure lockdown scepticism. And indeed, there are many wider political issues that have had clear connections to the lockdown issue, such as the BLM thugs being given special entitlement to roam in massive intimidatory mobs while anti-lockdown protests are thuggishly suppressed, or the US presidency being contested between sides with strongly differing positions on lockdown issues.

And freedom of speech and the ability to be heard is very much an issue of direct relevance.

In the end, I think it’s better not to try to tightly constrain discussions here. However, I agree with most (though not all) of Toby’s positions, so it really isn’t a problem for me.

238654 wantok87, replying to wantok87, 4, #497 of 2060 🔗

Having read the dirth of available data as a clinician it is difficult to assess the press release.
I have major concern however to the role that Government may have in enforcing what it views as “the science”. I was directed to the alarming section of the COVID legislation. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2020/7/schedule/21/enacted It appears to indicate a draconian power given to Public Health officials et al to drag adults and children away for testing and/or vaccine? Does this override the Human Rights Legislation?
Vaccine or not we need clarification as to our individual freedom to preserve our right to determine our own medical care. Perhaps the legal minds could advise,

238676 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to wantok87, 7, #498 of 2060 🔗

Human rights have been nullified. There are no rights for the individual in the new Communitarian normal. Every individual’s “rights” are now to be contextualised within the wider community.
So masks protect others. That’s why

Law has been nullified. Common law, nullified. Its Communitarian law now.

238712 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Two-Six, #499 of 2060 🔗

Communist, not communitarian. Communitarianism is supposed to be a system where people voluntarily help others who voluntarily accept that help, to the benefit of all.

238763 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to RichardJames, 3, #500 of 2060 🔗

It’s a hybrid of Communism and Fascism. Two things we have by the bucket-load right now.

240390 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to RichardJames, #501 of 2060 🔗

Listen to Mark Windows ‘Windows on the World’. He might change your mind about that. By the way, I, too, am a Richard James.

238718 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to wantok87, 9, #502 of 2060 🔗

We now live under tyranny. The government(or rather those pulling the strings) will do whatever it/they like until physically stopped. This is a government that has openly deployed British military intelligence units against the British people. At this point it is quite clear none of our institutions are going to even try to protect us.

238771 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Saved To Death, 5, #503 of 2060 🔗

I wonder how much of British intelligence / GCHQ’s resources are really used to protect us against ‘foreign’ enemies and how much is used suppressing and controlling the natives.

I am starting to think imposing tyranny on the UK population is their main purpose when they are attacking lockdown sceptics and anyone who dares to even remotely question vaccines.

They have declared war on their fellow citizens. Really shameful.

238842 ▶▶▶▶ Jo Dominich -, replying to Darryl, 9, #504 of 2060 🔗

For what it’s worth Darryl, a little feeling is creeping in that this whole shit show is slowly but surely collapsing around them hence the desperate Press Conference yesterday. Johnson is fighting for his survival. He’s hanging on by a thread. I think we’ve seen that British Intelligence is used against the people quite often. GCHQ can access our e-mails and other things. Social media has given them greater access to people’s lives. I don’t do any social media of any kind so I try to keep my privacy as much as I can. I remember very clearly on the first week of the first Lockdown Google making an international announcement saying they would be reporting anybody who was outside of their house that contravened the regulation. It is these same tech giants FB et al who are imposing their own draconian censorship on alternative points of view. We are, effectively, not only at war with our own Government but also with big Tech.

238987 ▶▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Jo Dominich -, 2, #505 of 2060 🔗

We have pretty much been enslaved by the US big tech monopoly. I can’t see why people fuss about Chinese companies possibly spying on them when worse is being done by US companies with the approval of the UK establishment already.

240392 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Jo Dominich -, #506 of 2060 🔗

The Integrity Initiative.

238655 captainbeefheart, replying to captainbeefheart, 36, #507 of 2060 🔗

Jeremy Vine Show: “Keep vaccine refusers in lockdown”

I hope that annoying establishment ball-licking windbag cunt gets paralysed by it.

238666 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to captainbeefheart, 10, #508 of 2060 🔗

Been on the cards since day one. Much more where this came from. Soon the calls will start for anyone refusing the vaccine to have their assets frozen.

238672 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to captainbeefheart, 9, #509 of 2060 🔗

This will soon be the MSM view on this…It will be on every channel, newspaper, radio. Together with a nice health passport .

238754 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Thomas_E, 3, #510 of 2060 🔗

Yes they will undoubtably use all the usual propaganda channels (and the masses will fall for it).

Operation Mockingbird and MKUltra in use again.

240393 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to captainbeefheart, 1, #512 of 2060 🔗

I saw Captain Beefheart live at the Santa Monica Auditorium in 1966. He was on a bill with The Yardbirds with Jimmy Page.

238657 davews, 3, #513 of 2060 🔗

John Redwood on the vaccine story this morning, expect some interesting comments later.
http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2020/11/10/does-a-vaccine-offer-a-way-out/

238658 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 3, #514 of 2060 🔗

Pfizer is collaborating with a German firm BioNTech and a Chinese company Fosun. I suggest you look at the Wikipedia entry for BioNTech.
I tried to post about this earlier but it was marked awaiting approval.

238663 ▶▶ Julian, replying to p02099003, 1, #515 of 2060 🔗

Too many links possibly – I think more than 3 links means posts get flagged. It’s automatic I think.

239048 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Julian, #516 of 2060 🔗

The comment has been approved.

238674 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to p02099003, 5, #517 of 2060 🔗

“and a Chinese company Fosun”

There it is. I knew that smell of sulphur wasn’t a hallucination.

238733 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 3, #518 of 2060 🔗

Fosun who own Club Med and bought the failed Thomas Cook brand. Net assets US$102.6 billion (2019)

238679 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to p02099003, #519 of 2060 🔗

Wikipedia:

BioNTech was founded in 2008 based on research by Uğur Şahin , Christoph Huber and Özlem Türeci . It has since been supported by a scientific advisory board under the direction of Rolf M. Zinkernagel . [1]
In September 2019, BioNTech signed an agreement with the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation to develop HIV and tuberculosis programs to identify and develop preclinical vaccine and immunotherapy candidates for the prevention of HIV and tuberculosis infections and for the long-term antiretroviral therapy-free remission of HIV diseases. [2]
In June 2020, BioNTech received €250 million from Singapore’s Temasek Holdings and other investors through a private placement of mandatory convertible bonds . [3]

238687 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to p02099003, 3, #520 of 2060 🔗

BioNTech was founded in 2008 based on research by Uğur Şahin , Christoph Huber and Özlem Türeci . It has since been supported by a scientific advisory board under the direction of Rolf M. Zinkernagel . [1]
In September 2019, BioNTech signed an agreement with the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation to develop HIV and tuberculosis programs to identify and develop preclinical vaccine and immunotherapy candidates for the prevention of HIV and tuberculosis infections and for the long-term antiretroviral therapy-free remission of HIV diseases.[2]

238825 ▶▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to Basileus, 2, #521 of 2060 🔗

Well isn’t that a surprise!

238662 calchas, replying to calchas, 29, #522 of 2060 🔗

Looking for the good news in all the vaccine aduation, plus a bit of speculation

  1. It shows people are desperate to return to normal, despite what one might think from all the silly mask-wearing. They don’t want to live like this.
  2. It has speeded events up. I was expecting the vaccine to be pushed well into 2021, as may well still happen, which would have allowed more time for the social conditioning to work. Maybe that means that those behind this feel they have to hurry. Time is not on their side.
  3. I think the increasing social unrest of the last month has contributed to the last point, meaning that protest has an effect. The spread of sceptical thought on the Internet is almost certainly monitored in some way and I suspect that this is growing very quickly
  4. Should a vaccine come, and should this not lead to the end of masks and social distancing, as I indeed expect, then we can expect considerably more pushback from the population, as that would mean that all hope of a return to normal human life would have obviously gone.

As all of this goes further into the future, the consequences of all of this get more and more difficult to predict. That is to our advantage. Those behind this may have believed that they had thought o everything, but then central planners always do.

238670 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to calchas, 14, #523 of 2060 🔗

I do think they know they’re losing the public and this is the strategy for getting them back on side.

238690 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 8, #524 of 2060 🔗

Sticks aren’t working, so they’re trying to tempt them with a carrot.

239109 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to DRW, 4, #525 of 2060 🔗

A lethal carrot, at that.

239105 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 2, #526 of 2060 🔗

It is an attempt at a strategy.

238671 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to calchas, 13, #527 of 2060 🔗

Muzzle wearing benefits biopharma because of the antibiotics needed to treat all the respiratory infections they cause. So we can expect muzzle wearing to continue well into next year IMO.

239819 ▶▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to bluemoon, 1, #528 of 2060 🔗

Not if enough people just stop doing it.

238678 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to calchas, 8, #529 of 2060 🔗

The vaccine rollout was always going to start this year, this has been obvious.

When it becomes obvious that none of the regulations are ever going to be lifted, this will be a point of maximum danger for the likes of us. We are going to get the blame.

238784 ▶▶▶ Jo Dominich -, replying to Richard O, 3, #530 of 2060 🔗

Unfortunately, we are going to have to rely on our MPs in Parliament to vote any or all of this out. What’s the chance of that when there isn’t even any opposition to this corrupt Government?

239116 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Richard O, #531 of 2060 🔗

Yes indeed, and then the clamour for mandatory vaccine will get into top gear.

238689 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to calchas, 15, #532 of 2060 🔗

Not convinced of the planning tbh, everything that’s happened in the past seven months or so smacks of firefighting on the hoof. The really organised bits will have come from the Armed Forces, who are frankly the only people anything to do with government capable of firefighting and adapting on the hoof.

And when people push back, as they are doing now, it becomes an unstoppable force. Whatever else 2021 brings, it will be the end of this Covid shitshow.

That’s my positive!

238716 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Nick Rose, 6, #533 of 2060 🔗

I fear it will go out the way of the War on Terror, the mass hysteria wears off and it stops making headline news, but it never really ends, just fades. We still have 9/11 emergency measures, for instance.

238770 ▶▶▶▶ TheBigman, replying to DRW, 2, #534 of 2060 🔗

And just like these attacks. There will be more ‘mutations’ and new viruses to keep us scared and compliant.

238942 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to TheBigman, 1, #535 of 2060 🔗

They won’t even need to stage bomb blasts or report phoney arrests of people who never get prosecuted.
Just declare “New Virus!”.

239125 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to TheBigman, 1, #536 of 2060 🔗

As Bill Gates likes to say Pandemic 2 is on the way. I’ve always liked a good sequel.

238698 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to calchas, 7, #537 of 2060 🔗

Looking beyond the headlines and from actual signs coming from the real world, it appears the government are rolling out all the vaccine infrastructure, ready for press coverage.

This looks like it includes, taking over public buildings and unused theatres, employing a military task force and redeploying NHS staff.

A mass propaganda campaign, probably involving media personalities being vaccinated for things like flu etc. More condemnation of medical experts/scientists who express scepticism on a rushed vaccine.

When the vaccines aren’t approved and ready to go, Boris can then say that the advisors and vaccine companies are to blame

238792 ▶▶▶ Jo Dominich -, replying to PoshPanic, 3, #538 of 2060 🔗

Interesting point of view. I think you’ve probably got something there. BTW, NHS Staff? They’ll all go off sick!

238948 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to PoshPanic, 1, #539 of 2060 🔗

Hancock this morning R4
‘No matter how effective the vaccine is if it isn’t safe we won’t use it . . .we are in the hands of the scientists’.

239131 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to karenovirus, 2, #540 of 2060 🔗

He means Bill Gates.

238767 ▶▶ FlynnQuill, replying to calchas, 17, #541 of 2060 🔗

If we get our freedoms back, I’ll show my arse in the nearest Apple store window.

People are living in cloud cuckoo land if they think the magic vaccine is going to make things go back to normal. Governments don’t give up power easily once they have stolen them.

238782 ▶▶▶ Jo Dominich -, replying to FlynnQuill, 4, #542 of 2060 🔗

Please film it!! There is no magic vaccine. My question is if they haven’t isolated the pathogen yet, what are they developing a vaccine against?

239218 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Jo Dominich -, 1, #543 of 2060 🔗

And what is the PCR test testing for? So many obvious stupidities go unnoticed by most. Covid-19 is a huge, but sinister scam.

238881 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to calchas, 1, #544 of 2060 🔗

Nice way of looking at it, thanks for this (in a day that has been dark for me)

238955 ▶▶ dhpaul, replying to calchas, #545 of 2060 🔗

I think your point 4 is key. I have said to any who will listen, and unfortunately few of my friends want to hear it, that I believe even if a vaccine is rolled out early 2021, that masks, anti social distancing, crowd restrictions etc will still be in place well into 2022 at the earliest. I see no reason to change my view. Once you have set a precedent for these things why would you not think they are great for reducing flu and colds for ever?

239287 ▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to dhpaul, 2, #546 of 2060 🔗

Mask wearing has been fairly common in SE Asian countries for decades now. I can see that fashion spreading here easily. It’s much the same as those plastic hats people wear when cycling. They don’t really do much, but it’s become culturally accepted that that’s just what you wear when cycling.

240389 ▶▶▶▶ Borisbullshit, replying to Cranmer, 1, #547 of 2060 🔗

I never wear one of those ‘brain hats’ when cycling….its quite funny as those who do wear one dont say hello to you!

238667 PoshPanic, replying to PoshPanic, 5, #548 of 2060 🔗

Whilst the stage is being prepared for the vaccine theatre, Italian lockdowns are beginning to wobble… this ones Napoli, but plenty more from this source

https://twitter.com/RadioSavana/status/1325177268310695937

238685 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to PoshPanic, 2, #549 of 2060 🔗

Looks like a video showing 100% on street mask wearing compliance to me. Some shops are open that ‘should not be’ – while all the zombies are in masks I don’t think the powers that be are at all worried about that.

238668 Thomas_E, replying to Thomas_E, 58, #550 of 2060 🔗

Just a quick story about the madness of the general public. I have taken the train to the office this morning and I get on (mask less of course) and sit down on an empty seat by the window. On the the other side of the isle ( by the window) sat a lady with a full mask , gloves . She turns around, sees me, jumps up like she saw a ghost, you could see the fear and panic in her eyes. She points a finger at me , I smile at her..then she runs down the train and literally goes and sit by the door to the next carriage. This is what everyday life is now, a scarred , obedient population who still think that this is fucking Ebola. And now this whole vaccine thing, things are going to get a lot worse I think. Sometimes i find it hard to go on. I almost jumped under a train last Thursday but didn’t, then had a complete breakdown at home in front of my family. I have C PTSD but this was on another level..I sometimes feel we are not living any,more, we are just existing.

238684 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Thomas_E, 9, #551 of 2060 🔗

DO MOCK THE AFFLICTED.

238688 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Thomas_E, 28, #552 of 2060 🔗

Please don’t jump under a train or off a bridge or anything else like that.
This madness will pass one day. Just remember how easilly the masses were brainwashed, unbrainwashng them will be as easy as Philip Schofield and Holly saying the vaccine is great and we can all stop worrying now, “and now over to Dick Strawbridge who is planning a christmas vaccine party”

238731 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Thomas_E, 9, #553 of 2060 🔗

Be not afeard. The isle is full of noises,
Sounds and sweet airs that give delight and hurt not.

238774 ▶▶ Jo Dominich -, replying to Thomas_E, 18, #554 of 2060 🔗

There is a very big light at the end of this tunnel. Johnson’s political future is in serious jeopardy. We need to organise mass disobedience events if we could get some kind of national coordination. The timing of this vaccine nonsense was just to get Johnson off the hook and the two brothers Grimm for their lies and incompetence. Yesterday’s Press Conference was contemptible. I have quite a lot of hope. This vaccine thing will drop out of the news very quickly, it is just another propaganda campaign to divert away from the real issues. Hang on in there.

238925 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Thomas_E, 4, #555 of 2060 🔗

It’s her problem Thomas, not yours.

239302 ▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Thomas_E, 5, #556 of 2060 🔗

Be of good cheer – remember that countless Britons in ages past have been through far worse than this, and they stood firm, as will you.

240208 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Cranmer, 2, #557 of 2060 🔗

I wouldn’t underestimate the evil intent of what has been going on since March. Our government intends us real harm and is acting as agent for a globalist cabal.

240396 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Rowan, #558 of 2060 🔗

World Economic Forum. Global Action Plan.
Mark Windows, ‘Windows on the World’.

239483 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Thomas_E, 5, #559 of 2060 🔗

Take comfort in the fact that woman is so far gone that she will be miserable and fearful for the rest of her life.

238677 Will, replying to Will, 3, #560 of 2060 🔗

Who is going to indemnify this vaccine?

238686 ▶▶ Gerry Mandarin, replying to Will, 11, #561 of 2060 🔗

We will pay for any problems occurring. Vax makers immune – so not a problem for them if their product causes damage.

238691 ▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Will, 7, #562 of 2060 🔗

The government; that means, YOU!

On the other hand, the good news is that if your child is left as a vegetable by the vaccines, you’ll find it difficult to claim the money, because the government will try their utmost to stop you getting anything, so that’ll reduce theamount of money paid out…

/sarc

238706 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to RichardJames, 5, #563 of 2060 🔗

An infertile vegetable, yes.

238791 ▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to Will, 1, #564 of 2060 🔗

Err it’s new technology, never been tested before in humans…apart from our incomplete trials, plus we haven’t really made vaccines before…or in fact any other approved products….we really can’t take the risk that something may go wrong. If we did, then we could go out of business….so consumers will have to suck it up I’m afraid while we pocket the billions. 🙁

240401 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Sceptic Hank, #565 of 2060 🔗

They want you to feel scared and they are so glad that you feel so powerless. Show them that they underestimated your resolve to fight back.

240399 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Will, #567 of 2060 🔗

Take it out of Bill Gates bank account.

238680 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 15, #568 of 2060 🔗

First minister of Wales advices the people not to hand deliver Christmas cards because of the risk of spreading, blah,blah,blah,etc, and we think it’s bad in England.

238699 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Fingerache Philip., 16, #569 of 2060 🔗

NorthumbrianNomad advises the people not to listen to the First Minister of Wales because of the risk of apoplexy.

238711 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Fingerache Philip., 8, #570 of 2060 🔗

Thankfully people stopped listening to him a long time ago

238839 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Cecil B, 6, #571 of 2060 🔗

As I hope the people of England are doing with Bojo,Wankcock, 5 homes Jenrick,George Useless and bloody Whitless,Vacuous and the rest.

238868 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #572 of 2060 🔗

You pay him more attention than I do, and I’m in Wales.

238992 ▶▶▶ James Hargrave, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #573 of 2060 🔗

A man who would be out of his depth in a paddling pool.

239010 ▶▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to James Hargrave, #574 of 2060 🔗

Now then, now then!

238944 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Fingerache Philip., #575 of 2060 🔗

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

240403 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Fingerache Philip., #576 of 2060 🔗

Ah, F Off First Minister! What about Father Christmas infecting chimneys?

238681 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 7, #577 of 2060 🔗

https://mobile.twitter.com/ClareCraigPath/status/1326079790236004359

So this is why the Liverpool results aren’t being shouted from the rooftops. 0.7% infected. Of course they will spin it as “missing” infections but we all know the likely truth…

238695 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #578 of 2060 🔗

With a FPR of what 10% or more. So basically paranormal measurements. Maybe we need the Ghost Busters

238692 TheBigman, replying to TheBigman, 13, #579 of 2060 🔗

The Zero Covid campaign just reminds us all what the left (not just hard left) are all about: state control and communism. That’s the only destination of their aims.
Anyone who supports them is anti-freedom and should be ridiculed into oblivion.

I’m being polite for the purpose of this forum.

238758 ▶▶ Jo Dominich -, replying to TheBigman, 2, #580 of 2060 🔗

I think its Facism actually but probably not a lot of difference.

238772 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Jo Dominich -, 4, #581 of 2060 🔗

Well if it’s “fascism”, it’s “fascism” with the enthusiastic support of the lockdown left – both wings, Jeremy Corbyn and Kier Starmer, as well as all the institutions known to be dominated by left-wingers: media, academe, civil service, unions, globalist big money (eg Soros, Gates), etc.

238693 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 12, #582 of 2060 🔗

These countries seem to be the first European countries to bend the curve and sliding down. There will be lots of death and ICU admittance on the first part of the Bell curve slope down keeping MSM busy. But the most important point is of course the peak of infection crudely indicated by confirmed “cases” as the cases/infection will decrease from then on.
 What would happen in the slope down the Bell curve if we stopped all SD? Everybody in the medical establishment would say that the pandemic would be prolonged etc and that would be dangerous. Are they correct? In flu epidemic and even flu pandemic earlier there would be no or minimal SD and the curve would still go down despite people being susceptible. This is the pattern of respiratory virus and influenza and it is a seasonal pattern of infection. Why should C-19 be different?

238701 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to swedenborg, 4, #583 of 2060 🔗

The graphs are an encouraging shape – the same shape as all other graphs everywhere, regardless of government policy. But this is still “cases”. Hospitalizations. Deaths. RECOVERIES. These are the graphs people need to see to put things in context.

238722 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 2, #584 of 2060 🔗

Plus each country has different testing details.

238802 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 6, #585 of 2060 🔗

It’s blindingly obvious that the major driver is natural immunity, seasonality and health care capacity.

Lockdowns are a crime against humanity

238856 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #586 of 2060 🔗

They are.

238969 ▶▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #587 of 2060 🔗

So many things that are blindingly obvious are being treated as heretical. It really is a madness.

239337 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 6, #588 of 2060 🔗

I’m more and more convinced it’s like a religion, or mass hysteria. Question the prevailing mindset on social media and you get the same stuff back, constantly, about people ‘gasping for breath’, ‘collapsing distribution systems’, ‘NHS collapsing under the strain’ etc. It’s polar bears on melting icebergs all over again.

238793 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to swedenborg, 9, #589 of 2060 🔗

The RKI in Germany has a good dashboard with graphs which show the date of illness and date reported. Date reported is a week behind illness, and if people looked at this instead of just listening to the news it would all be so much easier!
These dashboards are used by a lot of countries as well as the WHO, so why is Britain using some old fashioned excell sheets and word to publish numbers?
Why is the British government so inept in handling even the basics?

238844 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Silke David, 3, #590 of 2060 🔗

why is Britain using some old fashioned excell sheets and word to publish numbers?

Because it’s cheap! Because it gives the taxpayer ‘value for money’.

238981 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Silke David, 6, #591 of 2060 🔗

Because the British are serious about the wrong things and rigour is not one of them. It was pointed out to me a long time so that Germany has a lot of rules and procedures, but if you look closely at them, they’re mostly designed to make life easier and more pleasant to live. Instead of the constant chaotic faffing, snobbery (not least inverted) and pointless belligerence that too often rule the day in Britain.

238988 ▶▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, #592 of 2060 🔗

(PS re the above, I took it quite well because I was in bed with her at the time)

And it’s “a long time ago” not “a long time so”

238899 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to swedenborg, #593 of 2060 🔗

Presumably Belgium, Czechia etc with collapsing ‘second waves’ still have ramped up levels of testing?

240116 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to karenovirus, 1, #594 of 2060 🔗

Tests per thousands 7 days average rather alike apart from hypertesting Luxemburgh

240385 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to swedenborg, #595 of 2060 🔗

Thank you

239803 ▶▶ Brian Bond, replying to swedenborg, 1, #596 of 2060 🔗

You can add at least Iceland, Ireland, Slovenia and (probably) Denmark to your collection too, and there are a number of other European countries that look to be about to follow suit. I would expect that all of Europe will be following similar paths within 1-2 weeks.

238694 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 15, #597 of 2060 🔗

On BBCR4 today, the vaccine is 93% effective!
It gets better by the hour!
++good eh?
94.5% effective by the 6:00 O’clock news I bet.

239317 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Two-Six, 1, #598 of 2060 🔗

I would love to know what ‘effective’ means.

238697 Mark, replying to Mark, 22, #599 of 2060 🔗

Bizarre excitement even from supposedly educated and intelligent people about this fundamentally just (at best) money-wasting vaccine. But let’s not pretend these people have any basis for believing what they read and think they know about it, anyway. According to the science editor of the Telegraph (and quoted by Toby above):

The Royal Society is so concerned about uptake that it is calling for anti-vaxxers to be prosecuted if they spread misinformation about the dangers .”

Given the longstanding campaign to demonise “anti-vaxxers” supposedly “for the general good”, if anyone believes scientists and medics are remotely honest in expressing their views about vaccines on the record, I’ve got a bridge to sell to them.

238708 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Mark, 4, #600 of 2060 🔗

From the same idiot that compared masks to seat belts

238720 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Mark, 6, #601 of 2060 🔗

slightly off topic- The Royal Society occupy a building that was the German embassy until WW2. Apparently there is a swastika engraved into a floor.

239229 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to crimsonpirate, 2, #602 of 2060 🔗

The Royal Society is what its name implies. Prince Charles will be a happy man.

238728 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Mark, 13, #603 of 2060 🔗

Agree Mark. Are you an anti-vaxxer if you have had all long-standing vaccines, but just think that the covid vaccine is neither necessary nor ethical and potentially dangerous until it has been shown beyond reasonable doubt to be safe – ie. gone through the normal phase III and regulatory approval cycle?

238740 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 13, #604 of 2060 🔗

think that the covid vaccine is neither necessary nor ethical and potentially dangerous until it has been shown beyond reasonable doubt to be safe”

That’s my position. If anyone calls that “anti-vaxxer” (a childish and silly term) then they mark themselves out immediately as either rude, an intellectual lighweight, dishonest, lazy, evil or some combination of the above.

238824 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Julian, 4, #605 of 2060 🔗

Beat me to it. That’s my concern with the vaccine – it’s been rushed and corners cut. All the safeguards are there for a reason! Other than that, I’m far from anti-vax.

238889 ▶▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Julian, 3, #606 of 2060 🔗

Or a follower of the Alinsky doctrine: “Pick the target, freeze it, personalise it, and polarise it.”

238743 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 8, #607 of 2060 🔗

You are now, because it suits the government, authorities and zealots to label you so, so that you are “pre-demonised” and cannot oppose them politically.

In a way, it’s an object lesson in how these labels, once created, become available tools in the authoritarian kit for repression. And once tools exist, they will be used..

It’s exactly the same as happened with the manufacture of the political correctness smear terms such as “racist”. Once the concept has been created and pushed with massive state and lobby group propaganda push, it can be (and is) used against all sorts of targets well beyond any to which the term honestly applies (such as opponents of mass immigration, and EU leavers, in the case of the “racist” smear term).

238794 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Mark, 8, #608 of 2060 🔗

Yes, I wear my badge of ‘scab’ with honour. Oxford college debate in 1984 (!) when a group of Marxists, all sons/daughters of Lloyds names, City grandees and prominent academics turned on me – a working class lass with a next-door neighbour who was a miner – and my dissenting view!

238831 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #609 of 2060 🔗

Sons and daughters of Lloyd’s names? Children of those who entered an unlimited liability contract then cried when the shit hit the fan. I know the sort, and not just in Lloyds!

239025 ▶▶▶▶ kenadams, replying to Mark, 1, #610 of 2060 🔗

It’s worse than that. It’s now used to shut down legitimate debate about political movements which themselves are horrendously racist, ie BLM.

238776 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #611 of 2060 🔗

Are you an anti-vaxxer if you have had all long-standing vaccines…

What long-standing vaccines, TT?

There never have been any other vaccines; this is the first vaccine that has ever been invented and it will save humanity.

Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia

239236 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #612 of 2060 🔗

The Covid-19 vaccines will be intentionally dangerous, that is the whole point of the Covid plandemic.

238735 ▶▶ TheBigman, replying to Mark, 16, #613 of 2060 🔗

There’s a reason why anyone who questions vaccines is berated. It goes against the many agendas being set in place.
If they truly work as advertised then why would anyone who doesn’t get one be berated, it’s a socialist mentality we suffer from in the UK.
If you want one take it, if not that’s also equally fine and shouldn’t carry any coercion.
Wasn’t the best flu vaccine in the UK only 50% ‘effective’? And recently there were more deaths because a key component in the vaccine was missing? I could be wrong.

IF YOU ARE TRYING SO HARD TO CONVINCE PEOPLE OF ANYTHING IT’S BECAUSE THERE IS SOMETHING BEING HIDDEN.

This vaccine could just be saline or some such and completely harmless, the issue is people being coerced into taking it. Like lockdown, once that power is used it will take revolution to get it back.

238744 ▶▶ Jo Dominich -, replying to Mark, 8, #614 of 2060 🔗

This is deeply disturbing. We live in what is still but the last vestiges of a democracy and we have a right to dissent, voice opinions against things and the right to demonstrations and free speech.

238750 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Jo Dominich -, 9, #615 of 2060 🔗

We are in the last days of freedom here, without question. We may also be in the last days of humanity itself. I see no light at all right now.

239259 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Richard O, 1, #616 of 2060 🔗

We are indeed living the end times and the Covid-19 vaccines are the globalist’s equivalent of going nuclear.

238879 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mark, 1, #617 of 2060 🔗

Midday Jeremy Vine show will be ‘discussing’ whether to criminalize anti-vaccination statements made online.

238929 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Mark, 1, #618 of 2060 🔗

Look at who their biggest donors are:

Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation
Wellcome Trust

No compromised at all then are they?

238707 Cecil B, 10, #619 of 2060 🔗

Any pictures of the Liverpool test centre queues today? Thought not

Numbers of people tested on day two, three?, thought not

Lets move on to the vaccine, nothing to see here

238714 crimsonpirate, replying to crimsonpirate, 5, #620 of 2060 🔗

my flatmate reckons she’s got covid- that’s the second time she’s had it this year

238721 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #621 of 2060 🔗

Good

238742 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to crimsonpirate, 2, #622 of 2060 🔗

Just lucky I guess.

238759 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to crimsonpirate, 8, #623 of 2060 🔗

Lucky girl! Is she one of those who thinks that getting it is a good thing?

I hope you’ll do the decent thing and download the app, contact T&T, and lock yourself away from society for 14 days like a good citizen. 😉

238779 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to crimsonpirate, 4, #624 of 2060 🔗

It’s a bit like man flu, isn’t it?
Have they got a funeral plan yet?

238725 Mark, replying to Mark, 45, #625 of 2060 🔗

The crucial thing to remember, if you want to understand government behaviour over these covid vaccines:

In reality, this is a vaccine protecting against political blame, not against any biological threat .

These are not primarily vaccines with a medical purpose, these are political vaccinations. It does not matter whether or not they work overall, medically, they will allow government to claim they “saved us until the vaccine came along” by locking us down. At best, they will allow supporters of lockdowns to climb down with some superficial shreds of dignity remaining, at the costs of allowing the guilty men to escape the deserved consequences of their negligence, and of establishing lockdown (falsely) as a legitimate policy response for future respiratory viruses.

238736 ▶▶ Jo Dominich -, replying to Mark, 13, #626 of 2060 🔗

I know one thing, I certainly will not taking any vaccine that changes your natural immune system. That Doctor who said all anti-vaxxers should be prosecuted. What is she on?

238760 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Jo Dominich -, 19, #627 of 2060 🔗

She is neither a scientist nor a medical doctor. She is a demographer and sociologist who has ‘ taken various PhD and related courses in molecular genetics and bioinformatics’. I am a biochemist who has taken some PhD and related courses in microeconomics and financial law. That does not make me either an economist or a lawyer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melinda_Mills

240235 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Jo Dominich -, #628 of 2060 🔗

She should be on a scaffold.

238764 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Mark, 1, #629 of 2060 🔗

yeah but no but yeah but…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoCYYVmDbMU
1:40:57

238819 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mark, 4, #630 of 2060 🔗

It’s the “ establishing lockdown (falsely) as a legitimate policy response for future respiratory viruses” part that bothers me.

238852 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Mark, 16, #631 of 2060 🔗

Supporters of lockdown are not going to climb down. They are going to insist you remain locked down until you take the vaccine and covipass to prove this. They are going to insist you are masked forever, there will always be the risk of a new virus. There will be many more vaccines to follow. Having permitted our liberties to be violated to this extent guarantees that worse will come.

238994 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Saved To Death, 8, #632 of 2060 🔗

Supporters of lockdown are not going to climb down.

Neither are we. And not being brainwashed/corrupt/fucking stupid, we shall win.

Having permitted our liberties to be violated to this extent guarantees that worse will come.

That’s one possibility. I lean towards the view that more and more people are becoming aware of the bollocks all the time, and will not fall for it again.

239115 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Saved To Death, 3, #633 of 2060 🔗

I will then lock myself in for a year and wait for their cull to start to happen naturally.
My hunch is that all those vaccinated sheep will die like flies once they are challenged with the next mutation, similar to the ferrets that took the shots.
We’ll just have to figure out how to do the mass burials, running of affairs, key work, redistribution of their assets etc. without too much riots and chaos erupting.

239550 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Saved To Death, 2, #634 of 2060 🔗

I wonder how many of them will still support the lockdown once they’re hit in the pocket and stomach and not even their lovely house in the shires or in posh parts of the city can save them?

Economic Armageddon is still to come. Sunak’s furlough scheme is consigning us to even greater amounts of debt as businesses around us collapse taking with them hundreds of jobs. And not even those who are working from home will be secure.

240247 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #635 of 2060 🔗

If you can work from home, someone, perhaps from India, could do your job at less than a third of the cost of your wage.

239276 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Mark, #636 of 2060 🔗

There is also a pecuniary element.

239359 ▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Mark, 2, #637 of 2060 🔗

If it were just that – a face saving exercise – it would not be so bad. I fear however that those who have tasted of the awesome power and wealth handed to them during lockdown will not relinquish it easily. We could be subject to a cycle of annual new pandemics, lockdowns and vaccines ad infinitum.

238726 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 57, #638 of 2060 🔗
238732 ▶▶ Liewe, replying to Sarigan, 3, #639 of 2060 🔗

Ha Ha Ha HA!!!

238812 ▶▶ Dan72, replying to Sarigan, 4, #640 of 2060 🔗

Brilliant

239307 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Sarigan, 1, #641 of 2060 🔗

Great. Funny

240259 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Sarigan, 1, #642 of 2060 🔗

Fantastic!

238730 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 12, #643 of 2060 🔗

BBC announce 314,000 more thrown on the dole

Good day to bury bad news

238757 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Cecil B, 7, #644 of 2060 🔗

For context that’s the population of a small to mid sized UK city. It’s roughly 3 times the population of Exeter

238756 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 15, #645 of 2060 🔗

Stop Press: James Herriot makes exactly the same point as Carlin in All Creatures Great and Small . He writes about a knacker’s yard, where the family recycled dead livestock into soap and glue…

There were eight young Mallocks and they had spent their lifetimes playing among tuberculous lungs and a vast spectrum of bacteria from Salmonella to Anthrax. They were the healthiest children in the district.

I just loved this from Toby’s summary for the simple reason that I have just read this very book in recent days. I ordered the complete set of Herriot’s books a few weeks ago (8 volumes for £23–E-Bay) and they are a joy to read during these mind boggling times.
The original TV series is also being broadcast on ‘Drama’ with ‘Catch up’ available.

With all this head banging nonsense driving us all crazy if you let it, we really need coping strategies to keep us sane, James Herriot and Bill Bryson are two of mine.

238780 ▶▶ nickbowes, replying to Harry hopkins, 4, #646 of 2060 🔗

I recommend the Herriot Museum in Thirsk. It is actually the site of the Practice. Wonderful place.

238810 ▶▶ Adamb, replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #647 of 2060 🔗

Great escapism indeed. I’d add PG Wodehouse and EF Benson to the list..

238952 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Adamb, 2, #648 of 2060 🔗

and Patrick O’Brian !

240262 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Adamb, 1, #649 of 2060 🔗

Jeeves Omnibus’s (or is it Omnibii?) – I have 3 – so funny! And if you saw the Fry and Laurie TV series, you can hear their voices as you read it. Brilliant

238775 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 20, #650 of 2060 🔗

Mass testing of the population in Liverpool has seen 23,170 people tested since midday on Friday, with 0.7% positive .
The 154 people who tested positive had no symptoms.

false positive?

its almost disappeared from Liverpool
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases?areaType=ltla&areaName=Liverpool

waste of time

238797 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to steve_w, 6, #651 of 2060 🔗

Great news.

238803 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to steve_w, 8, #652 of 2060 🔗

So now down to 3,723 a day

480,000 to be tested every four days.

Buy day four it’s already a shit show

At this rate It will take them 2.97 years to complete a task they said they could complete in a month

238846 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to steve_w, 5, #653 of 2060 🔗

So no one tested had symptoms, and hardly anyone tested positive anyway? Crazy! Funny how this has been widely ignored by the media after making such a huge thing of the amazing moonshot testing scheme. You can bet it would be shouted from the rooftops if 10% had tested positive…

238910 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to steve_w, 2, #654 of 2060 🔗

On a positive note, at least it’s not going to bump up English “case” numbers significantly, which was one of my concerns.

239407 ▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to A. Contrarian, #655 of 2060 🔗

I wonder if somehow they’ll try to spin into a ‘testdemic’? With big red ski-jump graphs showing the ‘huge rise in testing’ etc? Most people would fall for it!

238946 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to steve_w, #656 of 2060 🔗

Ha ha ha. Brilliant.

238781 Richard O, replying to Richard O, 17, #657 of 2060 🔗

This is where we really get to see whether the authorities have got the guts and the will to go all out for the dystopian nightmare they have been promising us.

Nearly everything they have done so far this year has been psychological warfare. We are reaching the threshold where this now has to transform into outright physical oppression.

238785 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Richard O, 2, #658 of 2060 🔗

it is media driven. i expect they are getting bored with it now. they want to go out. hence the joy at the vaccine.

238788 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to steve_w, 9, #659 of 2060 🔗

No, the vaccine is the key component that will deliver the technocratic dystopian hell.

238862 ▶▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Richard O, 7, #660 of 2060 🔗

Correct. We probably have less to fear from the vaccine itself than from the Covid-pass and social credit system that will come with it.

238790 Ceriain, replying to Ceriain, 16, #661 of 2060 🔗

I imagine a lot of people who are going to be first in the queue for the vaccine will want little badges (of honour?) like those the kids get when they’ve been good at the dentist, etc.

My wife’s family all tested positive for it; you’d have thought they’d won the lottery the way they were crowing about it. They’ll be first in the queue for the vaccine, probably.

238796 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Ceriain, 18, #662 of 2060 🔗

The more volunteers there are the longer it will take for the refusers to be processed and the greater the chance that vaccine damage will be exposed before the programme can be completed.

The early signs are the voluntary uptake is going to be massive, perhaps in excess of 90%.

238799 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Richard O, 6, #663 of 2060 🔗

if people want it and the information is available then that’s fine with me!

238807 ▶▶▶ Jo Dominich -, replying to Richard O, 2, #664 of 2060 🔗

I think they said that about the Liverpool testing trials. Ended up being a false projection.

238813 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Richard O, 2, #665 of 2060 🔗

Is that the polls saying that, Richard?

90%? Nope, don’t see it.

238816 ▶▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Ceriain, 2, #666 of 2060 🔗

90%?? Not reflected on social media.

238822 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Londo Mollari, 3, #667 of 2060 🔗

I don’t use FB or Twitter, Londo; what are they saying on there?

I’d be totally shocked if 90% people say they are up for this. More likely the 90% figure comes from a Government sponsored YouGov poll, i.e. very dodgy.

238855 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ William Hand, replying to Ceriain, 8, #668 of 2060 🔗

I am not taking it. I am 68 and never had the flu jab. Convinced I had COVID in the Devon outbreak back in February (breathlessness, fatigue, sore throat, paracetamol for a month, felt totally shite), now 100% and not stressed and happy. But hate the fucking restrictions.

238858 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Richard O, 6, #669 of 2060 🔗

Agree Richard. Let the ones who are so keen go to the front of the queue and the rest of us can sit back and watch. No doubt the MPs and their partners will be falling over each other to get in there first!

238915 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Richard O, 4, #670 of 2060 🔗

I wouldn’t deny anyone their Covid shot just as long as they don’t expect me to have one.

238940 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Richard O, #671 of 2060 🔗

Hard to believe, Richard. What are the signs, please ?

238798 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 5, #672 of 2060 🔗

no-one wears face masks at our primary school. then someone turns up today in face mask and her 4 year old in one too 🙁

238806 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to steve_w, 9, #673 of 2060 🔗

Crazy brainwashed bastards.

238871 ▶▶ leggy, replying to steve_w, 2, #674 of 2060 🔗

My son’s primary (also where Mrs leggy works) have been relaxed. Up until now. Then there was a positive “case” in reception on Friday. The headmaster sent out an email yesterday lunch time advising all parents to wear masks (he did at least acknowledge exceptions).

However, he failed to inform the staff. They had no idea what was going on when masses of masked up zombies arrived to collect their children yesterday.

239429 ▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to leggy, 1, #675 of 2060 🔗

Have you watched the ‘South Park Pandemic Special’ on Bitchute? Very funny cartoon about Covid and American school kids. Some good jokes about mask compulsion in schools etc.

238800 TyRade, replying to TyRade, 9, #676 of 2060 🔗

Funny hey, how ‘the fever’ broke almost immediately after Trump was ‘defeated’? And you thought it was only Big Media, Big Academia, Big Tech, Big Courts, Big Bureaucracy that was against Trump?!

238805 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to TyRade, 6, #677 of 2060 🔗

Trump said a few months back that he had made enemies in Big Pharma.

238848 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Londo Mollari, 5, #678 of 2060 🔗

He also said at a rally in Philadelphia (I think) that we would not be hearing so much about Covid after the election. Give it time.

238801 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 15, #679 of 2060 🔗

Turns out the guy who was SHOT DEAD BY THE POLICE in Swindon was the neighbour of sombody we know. By their account the DECEASED was a great guy, popular and well know. The street is shocked to the core.

Numb.
He had an air rifle.
FFS

238804 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 6, #680 of 2060 🔗

Where is the protest?
Taking a knee eh?
FFS

238843 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Two-Six, 4, #681 of 2060 🔗

Trouble is, we never really get to reliably know the truth about these incidents. On the one hand, why was he carrying an air rifle in the street while arguing with someone (according to early press reports)? On the other, can’t these f’ing highly trained armed officers tell the difference in threat level between an air rifle (or anything that could conceivably be mistaken for one) and a weapon that requires preventive use of deadly force? We know that the police and authorities leak outright lies to the media to try to frame public opinion.

And of course, the authorities are extremely protective of their enforcers in such situations – nobody gets punished even for incidents like executing a Brazilian on the tube, or gunning down an unarmed man with a table leg in a bag.

238866 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Mark, 7, #682 of 2060 🔗

Or, in the case where I live, tasering a blind man after mistaking his stick for a samuri sword.

238911 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cicatriz, 4, #683 of 2060 🔗

Or for invading someone’s house in the middle of the night, and shooting dead an unarmed naked man in his own bedroom.

Sussex Police, you are today’s winner !

(The case was shifted to a London court, with the judge instructing the jury to find ‘Not Guilty’. Ffs.).

238916 ▶▶▶▶ Jo Dominich -, replying to Cicatriz, #684 of 2060 🔗

OMG. Did his family take any action against the Police?

238920 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jo Dominich -, 1, #685 of 2060 🔗

James Ashley was the guy’s name. A scouser. There was family follow-up, I don’t remember the details, but DDGIYF. (DuckDuckGo is your friend. 🙂 ).

238912 ▶▶▶ Jo Dominich -, replying to Mark, 1, #686 of 2060 🔗

Got Stalin Starmer to thank for that. I would not believe the MSM on anything such as this. Truth went out of the window our society a long time ago.

239038 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, #687 of 2060 🔗

Jocko Willink, who is on YouTube a lot, is an ex Navy Seal and very critical of the poor training that US police get in dealing with potentially dangerous suspects. The Seal approach is to keep yourself out of danger as much as possible so that you are not forced to shoot people “just in case”.

239159 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, #688 of 2060 🔗

The problem with that approach (as you’ve described it, because I haven’t seen his stuff) is that in fairness to them, the police often don’t have that option. It’s their job to put themselves in harm’s way to protect the public and to fulfill the state’s duty consequent of its monopolisation of the use of force and consequent de facto criminalisation of effective self defence.

The issue tends to come down to police advocates arguing that their people face danger and have to shoot (and shoot for centre mass) on a precautionary basis, and others who argue that the police should be taking increased risks to protect the public – that’s their job and if they don;t like it they should find another one.

I understand the first argument, but I side with the second.

In fairness, though, if we were to follow that route rather than the first, which is the one we tend to follow in practice, then we have to refrain from criticising police for inaction when things go wrong.

239301 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Two-Six, 1, #689 of 2060 🔗

Why do the police shoot to kill? It is so easy to shoot to wound and disable.

239371 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Victoria, #690 of 2060 🔗

Because the risk of missing or not disabling is much higher if you don’t aim for centre mass.

Some would argue, of course, they are supposed to be facing risks, since that’s their job, but police and authoritarians don’t like that argument, for obvious reasons.

238809 Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 7, #691 of 2060 🔗

I’ve been working my way through the list of MPs who voted against the lockdown, emailing them to thank them.

So far I’ve received several replies, which is more than my own MP could manage. I received a particularly kind reply from Richard Drax, a true gent.

239254 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, #692 of 2060 🔗

I’ve had 10 replies so far. The best was from Sir Charles Walker.

239438 ▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 1, #693 of 2060 🔗

I wrote to thank Sir Desmond Swayne, on the basis that he seems to be the best known of the rebels. I got a stock reply shortly afterwards, stating that he will continue to fight the lockdowns, which was quite impressive as he’s not even my MP. My own MP took a couple of days to reply (which was admittedly not too bad as in the past he’s taken up to a month) with some cut and paste stuff about how we need the army to enforce track ‘n’ trace.

238811 calchas, replying to calchas, 10, #694 of 2060 🔗

Of topic,

The demographic situation – the age distribution of the population – is such that it is difficult to see how western countries will be able the finance the vast obligations which are coming due for pensions, health, and age care.

One really does wonder how this circle will be squared.

It is problems like this that we should be worried about, not a disease with a lethality of – at most – 0.1%

238869 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to calchas, 8, #695 of 2060 🔗

What I’ve been saying from the very beginning. Plus, keeping people apart, social distancing rubbish, and a lower standard of living are all going to cause the birth rate to plummet in western countries. Pro-environmentalists say ‘Fewer people on the planet is a good thing!’ and I suppose I would agree to a certain extent because resources aren’t infinite but what these same people choose to ignore or don’t realise is that generally, the population is only growing in poorer countries. In richer countries, it’s shrinking, while also ageing. This is a demographic ticking time bomb. I predict that we are going to see a massive overhaul of how the state looks after the elderly in the next century.

238904 ▶▶▶ Jo Dominich -, replying to Poppy, 2, #696 of 2060 🔗

I have followed some of the recent Johnson and other Government comments on a ‘Euthanasia’ Bill. I’m in my mid sixties and very healthy (no prescriptions of any kind from GPs). I guess I’ll be in that State in 20 years time if, of course, I haven’t been locked away by the Stasi for refusing the vaccine!!

239635 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Poppy, #697 of 2060 🔗

There were economists who were already predicting a ticking time bomb as early as the 1970s with regards to the pensions not keeping up with the lengthening of people’s lifespans as well as the question of quality of life. Our pensions arrangements are still stuck in the early 20th century when it was expected that people would not live beyond 65 years of age.

Francis Fukuyama in one of his recent works mused that the quality of life has not kept pace with the quantity of life so you may be on to something Poppy, there will be a massive overhaul but how that will look like will be anyone’s guess.

239331 ▶▶ silverbirch, replying to calchas, -1, #698 of 2060 🔗

calchas – isn’t that what this is all about? Murder the 60+ redistribute their assets/lose all pension and health liability, everyone else on UBI with Russian style oligarths controlling everything

238814 Aslangeo, replying to Aslangeo, 3, #699 of 2060 🔗

In case it has not been linked already – inspiring you tube video by Tom Woods – on the Covid cult – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcm8Sc8f66o

239053 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Aslangeo, 1, #700 of 2060 🔗

That’s a really good watch. Will check out his site too, might give the book a read – https://wrongaboutlockdown.com/

238815 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 4, #701 of 2060 🔗

the ‘cases’ data is clearly on a downward trend. hosptalisations plateauing and deaths I expect will this week. Then its downhill all the way.

on 2nd december will they
a) say ‘we flattened the peak, vaccine just around the corner, go and enjoy yourselves’
b) say ‘vaccine just around the corner, stay inside, its not long now’

?

238827 ▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to steve_w, 8, #702 of 2060 🔗

most people are ignoring it anyway it seems so doesn’t really matter what they say at this point, they have 0 credibility.

238830 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Anothersceptic2, 11, #703 of 2060 🔗

i’m ignoring it as much as I can but I cant go in a closed pub or restaurant!

238834 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Anothersceptic2, 14, #704 of 2060 🔗

Many may be ignoring it but retail, sports and leisure, hospitality, travel are all closed and going out of business and the people who enjoy those things cannot

So it matters greatly

238861 ▶▶▶▶ Brian ‘Monty’ Cohen, replying to Julian, 4, #705 of 2060 🔗

Sure does. As a musician I have seen my livelihood, my profession and my freedom destroyed. But apart from that everything is fine and fuckin’ dandy!

240406 ▶▶▶▶▶ Borisbullshit, replying to Brian ‘Monty’ Cohen, #706 of 2060 🔗

Feel very sorry for you.

238833 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to steve_w, 4, #707 of 2060 🔗

It has to be the former – the Tory party will not sanction the latter, and Sir Keir seemed yesterday to be wobbling in his support for the government.

238894 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #708 of 2060 🔗

Unless Starmer goes the zero covid route to try and appease idiots like Burgon, Wrong Daily and all the thick, lazy and self interested trade unionists.

238980 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 6, #709 of 2060 🔗

The numbers of Tory MPs getting ‘restless’ is rising. They must know from their colleagues (those who voted against like Walker, Drax, Swyne, et al ) that a lot of the public are not on the government’s side.

238886 ▶▶ Will, replying to steve_w, 1, #710 of 2060 🔗

I fear it will be b).

238938 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Will, 3, #711 of 2060 🔗

Exactly. They’ve bet the farm on this vaccine (£££££££) and the strategy will be the usual one employed by torturers throughout history : grant a concession in return for compliance.

It’s so obvious when this lockdown has no basis whatsoever in reality – except as a softening-up procedure.

238972 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Will, 3, #712 of 2060 🔗

Van Tam gave the impression yesterday that restrictions of some kind will continue well into the Spring. Probably they might try going back to tiers for a bit.

That said, I think it’s getting harder for them to convince people that any of this works. More and more people know that the numbers are falling; quite a few of the papers (Mail and Telegraph anyway) have been putting out stories that the numbers were falling before lockdown, and even before the tiers started.

238995 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Ceriain, 5, #713 of 2060 🔗

I agree, the furlough extension suggests that too. But they visibly are losing the masses, and pressure is building against this. Hence all the vaccine carrot waving to try and keep them on board.

239037 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to DRW, 2, #714 of 2060 🔗

But they visibly are losing the masses…

Absolutely! 🙂

238939 ▶▶ DRW, replying to steve_w, 1, #715 of 2060 🔗

My guess is A, but back to regional tiers because B.

238818 Adamb, replying to Adamb, 23, #716 of 2060 🔗

Could we get rid of that blasted green banner??

238838 ▶▶ William Hand, replying to Adamb, 7, #717 of 2060 🔗

Seconded. Really annoying on a tablet.

238840 ▶▶▶ court, replying to William Hand, 8, #718 of 2060 🔗

Third, even more annoying on a phone

238913 ▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to court, #719 of 2060 🔗

It is supposed to be controlled by a cookie; that is to say, once you manually close the banner, it is supposed to be registered as “Don’t show me this again” in the cookie and remembered. Clearly shit coding of the website.

238854 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Adamb, 1, #720 of 2060 🔗

It has a cross on the top right corner – click it and the banner goes – just tried this on a PC, not sure about other devices.

238873 ▶▶▶ Adamb, replying to Ozzie, 2, #721 of 2060 🔗

Comes back every time on a phone..

238888 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Ozzie, 4, #722 of 2060 🔗

Yes, it keeps coming back.

238945 ▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to Fingerache Philip., #723 of 2060 🔗

Yes, you have to do it every time you visit – and with the sluggishness of the site recently you have to be patient….

238882 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Adamb, 5, #724 of 2060 🔗

Yes, it’s bloody irritating.

238820 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 18, #725 of 2060 🔗

zoe KCL covid tracker

36,293 new infections today, down from the peak of 43,171 on 1st Nov

clearly bugger all to do with lockdowns and everything to do with herd immunity

238828 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to steve_w, 9, #726 of 2060 🔗

Shush – there’s a vaccine to sell, and pension funds to be topped up!

238836 ▶▶▶ William Hand, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #727 of 2060 🔗

Exactly. I have a killing to make soon with my ahem investments. Ciao.

238832 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to steve_w, 5, #729 of 2060 🔗

Perhaps there is a faint hope that by the time the vaccine is rolled out widely next year, assuming it is rolled out of course, literally no one has “covid” any more so most people won’t bother to take it.

238847 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #730 of 2060 🔗

it does seem the first wave was crushed partially by herd immunity and partially by the summer

this ‘wave’ will do whatever it does but summer is too far away. I suspect its just mopping up from the first wave and will be gone in a couple of months.

if yu take the zoe covid tracker for symptomatics and multiply up to include asymptomatics, it does seem the first wave got ‘most’

238870 ▶▶▶▶ Jo Dominich -, replying to steve_w, 5, #731 of 2060 🔗

Is it not a scientific fact that viruses do not come in ‘waves’, they come, they see, they conquer, the humans get used to it and it goes away.

238884 ▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Jo Dominich -, #732 of 2060 🔗

depends when they first come and how seasonal they are I suppose.

238891 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Jo Dominich -, #733 of 2060 🔗

That’s why there will be no 2nd wave but no doubt the NHS and Hancock will try their damndest to manufacture one.

238924 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Jo Dominich -, #734 of 2060 🔗

Precisely – and then what happens is an on-going contribution to the role of endemic seasonal viruses in the autumn.

238964 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Jo Dominich -, #735 of 2060 🔗

That’s what tends to happen, yes.

238997 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Ceriain, #736 of 2060 🔗

We’ve don’t usually try to supress them this aggressively though.

238918 ▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to steve_w, 2, #737 of 2060 🔗

Not “summer”; the Sun manufactured the Vitamin D3. The big Sun did it and ran away.

238849 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to steve_w, 2, #738 of 2060 🔗

How do they eliminate flu and cold from Covid symptoms? Seems like am exercise in measuring the wind

238857 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to mhcp, 1, #739 of 2060 🔗

It was clearly a false positive and hangover tracker in the summer.

I think they make the effort by comparing self-reported symptoms with test results.

Tim Spector also called bullshit on the graphs of doom and the 4000 a day stuff. So he seems to be ‘ploughing his own furrow’. Probably wants to be one of the ones proved right when all this is over

238851 ▶▶ leggy, replying to steve_w, 3, #740 of 2060 🔗

More to do with false positives I would say.

238829 zenrin, replying to zenrin, 9, #741 of 2060 🔗

Not sure whether anyone has previously asked this, or if not, whether anyone knows the answer: If you have the new Pfizer vaccine, and later have a PCR test, will this show as positive?

238841 ▶▶ Julian, replying to zenrin, 5, #742 of 2060 🔗

Damn good question

238880 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to zenrin, 3, #743 of 2060 🔗

I’d say yes it would show up as a positive. The test cannot differentiate between dead cells and live ones.

238906 ▶▶▶ zenrin, replying to Bella Donna, 4, #744 of 2060 🔗

Mmm, so there will be no way to differentiate between someone who actually has Covid, someone who has a false positive PCR test, and someone who has had the vaccine, especially if none of them have any symptoms.

238853 Biggles, replying to Biggles, 2, #745 of 2060 🔗

Blimey, after sending my MP an email saying I wouldn’t vote for him again as he supported Lockdown 2, I’ve just had a letter from him (dated 6 Nov). It contains the usual stuff. Although he is ‘hugely resistant to restrictions on individual liberties’ he feels that ‘further measures are now necessary’. The only bit of data that he quoted was the following

‘According to the Office of National Statistics, there were 51900 new coronavirus cases a day last week and the numbers continue to rise at an alarming rate’.

This seems to be way higher than any other figure I’ve seen, the latest from the BBC is 21350 cases yesterday. Any thoughts?

238867 ▶▶ Jo Dominich -, replying to Biggles, 3, #746 of 2060 🔗

Biggles, I don’t think the ONS said any such things. It showed that Covid had flatlined and the greater number of deaths were from flu and pneumonina.

238872 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Biggles, 7, #747 of 2060 🔗

My thought is it’s bollox.

238937 ▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Bella Donna, #748 of 2060 🔗

yes, that is now my starting position for all things corona related. I am starting to suffer from confirmation bias.

238874 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Biggles, 1, #749 of 2060 🔗

Puzzling isn’t it? Two different ways of measuring. The ONS do a massive sample from which, I think, they produce an estimate – hence the two end zeros.

The 21,350 comes from all the testing that is going on.

What is more critical is not “cases”, as the majority are asymptomatic, but hospital admissions and deaths – and they seem to be steady. Tell him that, or tell him in a week when figures on that are firmer.

238878 ▶▶ Will, replying to Biggles, #750 of 2060 🔗

That is the ONS figure for the week ending the 23rd October. The ONS figure for the week ending 30th October, five days before the lockdown started was lower.

238896 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Biggles, #751 of 2060 🔗

Alarming- a well known scientific term

238901 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Biggles, 2, #752 of 2060 🔗

ONS used to produce raw statistics; that’s why they were always admired. Now they just produce ‘estimates’ from ‘models’.

I’ve stopped believing their ‘statistics’ now.

238917 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Ceriain, 1, #753 of 2060 🔗

No – the ONS is simply passing on the false government data of ‘cases’ defined by PCR positives in order to scare the shit out of people. It’s not the ONS that is the guilty party, even if we might expect the UK Statistics Authority to demand some semantic accuracy in using the term ‘case’.

238951 ▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to RickH, 1, #754 of 2060 🔗

Yeah, sorry, Rick; you’re quite right – I did mean to add that I felt they were just doing the government’s bidding. My bad, as they say.

I’ve always admired the info from the ONS; it’s always been accurate. I know a lot of the people there (have dealt with a few of them professionally in my time) will be unhappy at being used like this.

238914 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Biggles, 2, #755 of 2060 🔗

As already pointed out, the ONS estimate should not be confused with the positive test results number.

The real issue, if your MP is hanging his support for grossly destructive and illiberal measures on that number (and assuming for the sake of argument we accept it as plausible), is does he understand its significance?

In a population of a thousand times that number, that many new cases is perfectly manageable, bearing in mind the vast majority are asymptomatic or mild cold symptoms. The only importance it could have is if you believe it forewarns of exponentially rising future numbers based on those infections. And all the evidence we have is that no such sustained rise is plausible, and those claiming it will happen have been discredited by past incorrect forecasts, and are not supported by current data.

238958 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Biggles, 2, #756 of 2060 🔗

Ask him to check this FOI:

Department of Health and Social Care Reference FOI-1240596 and it stated that a positive PCR test means nothing medically.

The actual quote: “SARS-CoV-2 RNA means the RNA is present in that sample at that point in time. It does not mean that the patient has the novel coronavirus (COVID-19).”

239196 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Biggles, #757 of 2060 🔗

Maybe he looked at WHO numbers for the world rate infections?

If “new infections” were that high, this would be over in 10 days as everyone has had it by then, and supermarkets, hospitals and lots of other businesses would be shut as there is no staff.

Goodness, if an MP is this stupid, what hope is there?

239293 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Biggles, #758 of 2060 🔗

People like us will either have to stand against these useless MPs as candidates for other parties or become cheerleaders for such opposition candidates at the next election to ensure that these MPs NEVER get voted in again. They have blood on their hands by voting for lockdowns and failing to stand up against the trio

238863 Arnie, 18, #759 of 2060 🔗

My teen child said yesterday that she thought that Boris Johnson should be sectioned.

I agreed. Boris is now a monotonal, mono message maniac.

Despite his best efforts the British people continue to live (just!).

I realise that he is a very dangerous man who is murdering our people every day but he is also totally irrelevant too.

238883 Arnie, replying to Arnie, 26, #760 of 2060 🔗

Small child’s primary school tried to enforce mask wearing inside and outside from Monday. By lunchtime the teachers had given up trying to force the kids to wear the masks. When my little one came home she told me that ALL of the teachers had stopped wearing masks, shields, etc.

A small victory but I’m sure they haven’t finished yet. We’ll see what happens over the next few days. They are in great danger of upsetting the masses if they ramp things up so maybe give ’em enough rope…

If they do ramp up little one will be removed from school & home educated. Already done that with older kid. Watch this space…

238949 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Arnie, 10, #761 of 2060 🔗

We will need to form underground normal schools soon. Future BBC headline “Police arrest 3 after dawn raid on an illegal school where children were unmasked and playing together. The children have been removed from their parents and placed in care where they are now masked all waking hours and kept away from other children at all times. The organisers have each received a 100K find and 10 year prison sentence. If you know of any underground schools in your area please call crime stoppers today – you may be eligible for a sizeable reward if the information you provide leads to arrests.”

238976 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Saved To Death, 11, #762 of 2060 🔗

I think we will have to form underground normal everything at this rate. I can’t believe the levels of dystopia right now.

238885 CGL, replying to CGL, 2, #763 of 2060 🔗

My daughter has just been sent home for being in contact with someone who has tested positive and I do not want her returning as this will just happen again. Does anyone know of any good tutors or links for homeschooling? She is in year 11, can it be done at this stage? Any thoughts anyone?

238898 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to CGL, 2, #764 of 2060 🔗

Are you on Facebook? I know, it’s awful, but I home educate my daughter (6 years old) and it’s an excellent source of information, local groups, social activities etc for your area.

239157 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to A. Contrarian, #765 of 2060 🔗

Thank you – I think if they’d been primary age, I probably would have pulled them in September (or even before). It’s just that it’s her GCSE year, and the other daughter is in her A level year, so the worst possible scenario for the family as a whole really – they are both very bright girls and destined for good things – no good things will be left for them though, which makes me desperate for them.

238957 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to CGL, 2, #766 of 2060 🔗

Lots of study books, revision aids available – Letts, Collins and CGP were the ones I bought for my kids when school was failing them.

238982 ▶▶ William Hand, replying to CGL, 1, #767 of 2060 🔗

Mumsnet?

238985 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to CGL, #768 of 2060 🔗

For goodness sake….do you all need to stay in now?
Was she contacted by the new council track n trace department?
I could teach her how to fix bikes, play the drums, build a thing out of wood and metal, fix a pc…errrr
Brew some beer. Fly a drone, model plane or a helicopter…or a glider.
Any good?

239146 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Two-Six, #769 of 2060 🔗

No – we don’t have to isolate – nor is her sister in the same school sent home (?)
Even the chap who called Mr CGL (they daren’t call me any more!) sounded like he didn’t think much of it.
48 kids in the year have been sent home.

239597 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to CGL, 1, #770 of 2060 🔗

48!!!!!!
Mental…..Just mental.

239012 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to CGL, 3, #771 of 2060 🔗

We’ve just withdrawn our calf from her private school because they refused her exemption on grounds of distress.

We are looking into self-study IGCSE online schooling right now.

239147 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Mabel Cow, #772 of 2060 🔗

Really? How can they refuse?? That is an exemption isn’t it?
That’s just ridiculous. Are ALL the other parents sheeple?

Thank you though – we’ll have a look at the alternatives.
Tbh I’m not sure I’m going to be able to get away with it as I don;t think Mr CGL is 100% on board – I just know what a blow it will be for their scores on the school league tables if her results aren’t there, so it will hit them where it hurts.

239228 ▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to CGL, 5, #773 of 2060 🔗

The headmaster’s rationale was that whilst the school generally follows the government’s guidance on face covering in education, as a private school they are free to make up their own rules, and one of his rules is that each exemption has to be proved to his satisfaction.

By using the my-pub-my-rules approach, he chooses to sidestep the government’s guidance relating to exemptions (that they should be upheld and proof is not required).

And because he claims my calf’s reasons for exemptions are unfounded, he considers himself immune to accusations of discrimination .

Finally, in an almost unbelievable demonstration of idiocy, he argued against exemptions on the grounds that even asthmatic pupils were wearing face coverings.

Frankly, after three weeks of emails, I was more than happy to pull the plug.

To Hell with the lot of them.

239279 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Mabel Cow, #774 of 2060 🔗

I wonder if you could claim that due to the unilateral change in the terms that you accepted for the place at this school that you are not required to pay a full term’s notice?

239380 ▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Victoria, #775 of 2060 🔗

Hold on tightly, let go lightly.

239124 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to CGL, 2, #776 of 2060 🔗

Understand your reaction, however kids need to be around other kids. It makes them happy and more resilient. Rather use this opportunity to teach her about asking questions and evaluate data. I.e if they do temperature checks at school (on return), write down the daily measurement and after a while plot it on a graph etc.

239153 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Victoria, 4, #777 of 2060 🔗

I am so spoiling for a fight with them tbh. I couldn’t go on the premises to pick her up – good job I didn’t – there was a police car coming out through the gates when I turned up.
She is very up on everything and not in with the nonsense at all anyway – this just emphasises it for her.
She’s (quite successfully) trying to de-brainwash some other kids too! Told one boy about the test issues yesterday – opened his eyes a bit.
She’s a good girl.

238890 arfurmo, 4, #778 of 2060 🔗

Interesting anti mask comments from a qualified person . The mask bit starts at about 6 mins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEFXRnDCYkc He mentions the unpublished Danish study.

238895 RickH, replying to RickH, 5, #779 of 2060 🔗

“…v accine is “more than 90% effective in preventing COVID-19”.

Now – here’s a thought. It’s 10% ineffective at preventing Covid :

What’s the actual prevalence of Covid in the population?
What is the level of mortality solely attributable to Covid?
Even without all the massive concerns about a rushed vaccine and estimates of efficacy – how many lives might be saved by mass vaccination (given that Covid is a relatively minor cause of death)?

… and then how does that stack up against the mortality caused by shutting down the NHS?

238902 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to RickH, #780 of 2060 🔗

Actual prevalence 0.7% if you believe the Liverpool stats… 2.2% I believe ONS are currently quoting but I might be remembering that wrong. Obviously that’s the % infected at any one time, if you exclude false positives, and a different 2.2% are presumably affected in a week or two’s time.

238903 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to RickH, 4, #781 of 2060 🔗

Your questions are illegal.

238978 ▶▶▶ William Hand, replying to Richard O, #782 of 2060 🔗

Yep. Should be locked up for thinking like that. Now put your mask on.

238928 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to RickH, #783 of 2060 🔗

Rick these are sensible questions. This government doesn’t do sensible questions. We still haven’t done an analysis of COVID v non COVID deaths against the first lockdown let alone the second lockdown.

239076 ▶▶ Sylvie, replying to RickH, #784 of 2060 🔗

Lives saved for how long, and of what quality, in NICE terms (QALYs)?
Seems to me that successive cohorts of young people will acquire immunity through exposure to the wild virus, and the risk of disease and death attaches primarily to the infirm and old. Who are first in line for the vaccine, doubtless alongside the flu cocktail. Don’t suppose anyone is researching the effect of getting both vaccines at once, if you’re over 80, or are fat, and have diabetes type 2, hypertension or are BAME ? Or, I would suggest, have a genetic pre disposition to bi polar disorder, where it seems there is also a link to the body’s failure to process steroids correctly?

238905 John Galt, 7, #785 of 2060 🔗

I emailed Steve Reddy regarding the email he sent below:

https://twitter.com/UsforThemUK/status/1325739152479039490

I thought I’d wind him up, so I said “this email is apparently from you, but I’m assuming it’s fake based on the content, can you confirm whether it’s real or not?” He replied with:

Just to confirm I sent that email

Best wishes

Steve

238908 alw, replying to alw, 10, #786 of 2060 🔗

The vaccine will not be rolled out.

“It is a dangerous delusion to think we can ‘wait’ for a vaccine. There certainly won’t be a safe one soon.
Meanwhile, we are approaching community immunity in the south of England and the peak of i…”

A thread from @Francis_Hoar
https://threader.app/thread/1326123875713888257

238974 ▶▶ DRW, replying to alw, 4, #787 of 2060 🔗

Johan Geisecke said back in May that waiting for a vaccine, a properly developed one that is, is a fool’s erran. So you may as well just build up natural immunity and protect the vulnerable at minimal overall societal costs.

238909 Caroline Watson, replying to Caroline Watson, 11, #788 of 2060 🔗

The left wing ‘Zero COVID’ group is a gang of Momentum/BLM activists who are trying to use it as a lever to undermine Keir Starmer and the mainstream Labour Party. Several of them are likely to be expelled from Labour for anti semitism. The supposed health professionals involved are first and foremost union activists.

These people have no credibility with the grown ups at all.

238934 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Caroline Watson, 2, #789 of 2060 🔗

If they are trying to undermine the Blairites in charge of one of the two mainstream Blairite parties, they’re doing God’s work, even if their motives come from the other side.

As I’ve noted before, there are two disastrous outcomes from all this: first that the “Conservative” Party hierarchy responsible for the decisions will evade proper consequences, and second that the utterly undeserving and even more lockdown-hysterical Labour Party should benefit politically from it.

Hard to see how avoiding those twin disasters can be achieved, but that is the task we face, as a nation. Our problem is not a moribund and unfit for purpose political party or government, it is a moribund and unfit for purpose political class and system.

239036 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Caroline Watson, 3, #790 of 2060 🔗

It’s so see through. The only party in Northern Ireland calling for it are the People Before Profit guys. They have no technical knowledge of things and their idea to reach zero covid-19 goes something like this :

1. Test more people more often
2. Surveillance super state
3. New Zealand
4. Endless money tree
5. Workers (always needs a mention)
6. Masks
7. BLM protests > Freedom
8. Free stuff for everyone

Sign here.

238922 Arnie, replying to Arnie, 15, #791 of 2060 🔗

As many of you know I’m ex-forces and suffer severe PTSD and depression. I lost my business three weeks ago and a day later my business partner took his own life.

My mental health is not great to say the least but I have proved (so far..) that I’m a fighter.

I see a consultant psychologist every week, or at least I did until coronabollocks arrived. We’ve been doing telephone and video consultations all year which is far from ideal.

Last week she (my consultant) told me that I needed to be seen in person. She knows that I refuse to wear a mask…

I attended my appointment yesterday and somehow she had managed to get a room that had a biological filtration system, sort of air conditioning on steroids.

I really don’t know what to make of it. She’s obviously bent over backwards to treat me in person but I must admit that I’m perplexed.

Biological filtration?
No masks…

Any thoughts?

238954 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to Arnie, 6, #792 of 2060 🔗

If people want to biologically filter their room that’s their party, no need to hold it against them. I’m glad you got seen in person, that is so important. I wouldn’t read too much into it them diddling the air.

You have had to take so much crap, I’m glad you are still standing.

238956 ▶▶ Kev, replying to Arnie, 7, #793 of 2060 🔗

Arnie, so sorry to hear about your problems, one day soon, hopefully we’ll make the bastards responsible for this pay. The list of those responsible grows daily but we won’t forget and we certainly wont forgive.

Know you are not alone, keep fighting buddy.

238960 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Arnie, 6, #794 of 2060 🔗

Concentrate on the advantages of the personal face to face sessions, Arnie.

Try not to dwell too much on the surroundings.

238977 ▶▶ Jonathan Smith, replying to Arnie, 5, #795 of 2060 🔗

Sorry to hear you’ve been through the mill.

Either your consultant had to justify to someone higher up – probably an arse covering bureaucrat – her decision to see you in person or she’s not well and will find her own diagnosis in the DSM.

239019 ▶▶ Alexei, replying to Arnie, 3, #796 of 2060 🔗

Christ. There are no words sufficient to describe my disgust at what these fuckers have done to you.

Wish I could get a pint with you mate.

239040 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Arnie, #797 of 2060 🔗

You have a big, big problem. you are sane

239081 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Arnie, 8, #798 of 2060 🔗

My dentist has anti-covid air purifiers in the treatment rooms. Its a little thing like a battery fan with a blue LED on it. Apparently it is 99.9678% effective in killing the covids. It make them spin around in a vortex which make them dizzy, so they flock to the blue light which blinds them. Rendering them totally harmless.
It’s a new scientific development apparently.

239175 ▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Two-Six, #799 of 2060 🔗

My dentist uses one too. Looks just like an air- conditioning gizmo. I assumed it just filtered the air and didn’t find it threatening.

239448 ▶▶ TT, replying to Arnie, 1, #800 of 2060 🔗

In my view having mental health issues at this time is a sign that you are a real human being; it’s those that maintain a state of blissful ignorance and a fake all-is-fine-and-dandy attitude who are so far gone they are beyond help. Your ‘issues’ are a perfectly normal reaction to the prevailing insanity and criminal abuses of power going on everywhere. Just reading your statements gives me a sense of relief that I’m not wholly alone in feeling like I do, and I value your honest thoughts a million times more than all the endless bs peddled by the gaggle of ‘experts’, psychologists and commentators on the daily s***tshow.

238926 Sceptic Hank, replying to Sceptic Hank, 8, #801 of 2060 🔗

Are we missing something here?

Moncef Slaoui, the head of the US Operation Warp Speed has been telling the Wall Street Journal and the NY Times all about the ‘incredibly precise tracking systems’ that will go into the new vaccines –with the assistance of you’ll never guess – Google and Oracle.

Nothing secretive about this, it’s apparently all about monitoring people for adverse health effects, eg infrequent side effects not identified in clinical trials. This is because ‘some technologies have limited previous data on safety in humans (eg MRna).’ The term for this surveillance is ‘Pharmacovigilance’.

I may be wrong, but it looks increasingly as if vaccine recipients will be guinea pigs for this brand new technology, and be tracked electronically to boot.

238935 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Sceptic Hank, 1, #802 of 2060 🔗

Hmm. Do you have a link perchance?

238936 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Sceptic Hank, 5, #804 of 2060 🔗

The road to a technocratic hell from which there will be no escape is being laid before us.

238968 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Sceptic Hank, 3, #805 of 2060 🔗

It looks like Pharmacovigilance has been a thing for a while. It is about the monitoring of adverse reactions to drugs (which is a good thing):

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/human-regulatory/overview/pharmacovigilance-overview

239069 ▶▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to DressageRider, #806 of 2060 🔗

I’m hoping that’s all it is, especially since millions of people will be tracked…

239026 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Sceptic Hank, 1, #807 of 2060 🔗

The Last American Vagabond is a good source of info on this stuff.

Also check out Whitney Webbs independent journalism

238931 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 18, #808 of 2060 🔗

It is appalling that the msm are reporting army is ready to roll out vaccine, WHY, most people know no one who has had it, no one who has been ill, no one who has died, its like the biggest hoax and scam EVER. Johnson looks ill and Hancock is now wearing a muzzle to cover the smirk on his face.

238943 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Dan Clarke, 6, #809 of 2060 🔗

Wait until it starts then see how many die a day or 2 later like in South Korea recently when they started this year’s flu jab campaign.

See how they spin that especially a they are starting off in care homes apparently.

238950 ▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #810 of 2060 🔗

Any “excess deaths” in care homes after the jab is rolled out will just be seen as “collateral damage”.

“These people would have died soon anyway” the authorities will say.

(wonder what will be put on the death certificate “Died totally happy of something completely unrelated to the jab”)

238967 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to captainbeefheart, 5, #811 of 2060 🔗

ONS has already said that back at the beginning of August. I took this from their website then to send in an open letter to the bumbling buffoon et al:

“The coronavirus (COVID-19) has had a large impact on the number of deaths registered over the last few months and is the main reason for deaths increasing above what is expected (the five-year average). The disease has had a larger impact on those most vulnerable (for example, those who already suffer from a medical condition) and those at older ages. Some of these deaths would have likely occurred over the duration of the year but have occurred earlier because of COVID-19. These deaths occurring earlier than expected could contribute to a period of deaths below the five-year average.”

239231 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Awkward Git, #812 of 2060 🔗

Ferguson told the Science and Technology Committee something similar on 25th of March this year.

We do not know what the level of excess deaths will be in this epidemic, and by “excess deaths” I mean by the end of the year what proportion of people who died from COVID-19 would have died anyhow? It might be as much as half to two thirds of the deaths we are seeing from COVID-19 because it affects particularly people who are either at the end of their life or with prior health conditions. I think those considerations are very valid.

238973 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #813 of 2060 🔗

It’s going to be hell.
They are not only going to force the vaccine on us, but they are going to claim that it has limitations and will use that to continue to trace and isolate and mask and all the rest of it
So the vaccine will actually solve nothing, it will just be one extra layer of misery

239006 ▶▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to stewart, 3, #814 of 2060 🔗

And it fucks around with your DNA. Sounds fantastic!

Glad I had my child before having this forced upon me otherwise she might have been born with two spines and four heads

Sorry for the hyperbole 🙂

239005 ▶▶ Jo Dominich -, replying to Dan Clarke, 5, #815 of 2060 🔗

The MSM are the propaganda wing of the Government. Johnson’s reputation is shot. This is nothing more than a smokescreen and an attempt to keep the Covid narrative in the headlines. Only thing is, people are utterly fed up with it all and more and more MSM headlines such as these just adds to the Covid Fatigue that is already taking hold – at least here in Wancock’s constituency. People have a limit and the Government has, in effect, lost the goodwill of the British Public now. People are going through the motions of lockdown but making small acts of rebellion. One more lockdown will tip everyone over the edge. I hope that happens very soon before this is allowed to escalate.

239018 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #816 of 2060 🔗

Doesn’t Handjob wear a muzzle so that we can’t see his mouth moving and therefore know that he is lying?

239145 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Margaret, 3, #817 of 2060 🔗

If he’s breathing, he’s lying.

238933 Jonathan Smith, 14, #818 of 2060 🔗

Travelled into Italy on an almost empty Ryanair flight that cost me a ridiculously low £12. The mountain of paperwork I carried was nearly as heavy as my luggage: An Italian “declaration” to be filled in where I promise on pain of a hefty fine to either isolate for 14 days or be Covid tested within 48hrs of arrival. Also with me was my expensively acquired (£149) Covid-free certificate. You have to cover all bases when it comes to Italy, the authorities are very nit-picky. Added to this was a stash of the French exemption forms for the journey back through France….

Nothing but a temperature check was required at Pisa Airport. Attempts to flaunt my Covid-free in the face of authority were rebuffed.

Despite being stopped three times in a single afternoon by bored Caribinieri, I have not been asked to produce any of this paperwork, only the usual passport checks.

238947 Richard O, replying to Richard O, 9, #819 of 2060 🔗

An important legal consideration: is it possible to patent a human being?

If the mRNA vaccine technology alters our DNA, will this legally make our bodies the property of the manufacturers of the technology (in the same way that Monsanto owns the patent for GMO strains of crops)?

238984 ▶▶ Mike, replying to Richard O, 5, #820 of 2060 🔗

Highly likely. Technocratic serfdom.

239021 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Richard O, 2, #821 of 2060 🔗

It’s hardly gonna be open source. Of course the business plan will follow the GMO patenting of nature. That rabbit hole is huge. The legal ownership of particular DNA sequences is incredibly dangerous. See Vandana Shivas latest book

239035 ▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to Richard O, 2, #822 of 2060 🔗

Interesting thought. They are always looking for ways to patent nature, why not humans?

239108 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Richard O, #823 of 2060 🔗

1) no and 2) no.

238959 Arnie, replying to Arnie, 24, #824 of 2060 🔗

Eight months in.

I am still not aware of anybody I know who has had ‘covid’.

None of my friends or family are aware of any person that we can actually name who has had ‘covid’. My family is spread around the country.

We hear rumours of people who have had ‘covid’ but not a single one has turned out true.

There have been several ‘positive’ tests but nobody has had anything more than a chesty cough.

Is Boris telling the truth? Or am I just a freak who has found that narrow twisting impossible path of missing everybody who is ill with this ‘epidemic’?

238971 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Arnie, 7, #825 of 2060 🔗

Don’t think any of them are telling the truth. I had a family member who tested positive and had to quarantine, she spent the time landscaping her garden, she had no symptoms but had to have the test for her job.

238983 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to Arnie, 1, #826 of 2060 🔗

My friends sister tested positive about a month ago and had all symptoms going, fever, headache, shortness of breath etc. Was in bed for almost a week. Girl in her late 30’s but slightly obese with some minor health issues.
Thats the only person I am aware of that has tested positive.

238986 ▶▶ Jo Dominich -, replying to Arnie, 7, #827 of 2060 🔗

Arnie, I’m not aware of anyone either and I live in Sheltered Housing with mostly elderly. We are all disgustingly heatlhy here.

There is no truth just mass propaganda, hysteria and fake news. There is draconian censorship of the truth everywhere but here, on this site and at Offguardian it is getting through.

238996 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Arnie, 4, #828 of 2060 🔗

If losing your sense of taste and smell for three months means you’ve been affected by SARS-CoV-2, then perhaps I should be counted as a COVID-19 case.

But given that I’ve never been tested, never had a fever, and had little in the way of a cough, and given that sense-loss is a well-known (if uncommon) effect of respiratory illness, I cannot say with any certainty what happened to me, other than I felt like crap for a few weeks in early March.

Apart from a few sniffles when the calf went back to school, I’ve been fine ever since.

238999 ▶▶ Mike, replying to Arnie, 4, #829 of 2060 🔗

I’m aware of a fair number of people who ‘think’ they’ve had it but have nothing to prove they did or not. All I’m really seeing are a load of people who have become hypochondriacs over night and will simply put every ache, pain, sniffle and sneeze down to COVID. People have forgotten there were (and still are) other illnesses. Common sense, which for many a year has not been that common is not totally dead in the UK.

239031 ▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to Arnie, 2, #830 of 2060 🔗

I know one person, she got it badly and it took weeks to go away. But she tested negative for the antibodies!

239032 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Arnie, 2, #831 of 2060 🔗

Wife’s sister-in-law, her nephew, niece (and her 4 year old) all tested positive in Scotland. From what they tell us down here in London, just about everyone in Scotland tests postive eventually. 😉

Niece (bit of a hypochondriac) was ill; had all the symptoms – wife’s mother said it sounded like she had flu, nothing more.

Here in London, I don’t know a single soul whose had it.

239055 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Arnie, 3, #832 of 2060 🔗

I do not know anyone who has had COVID 19. But I know someone who claims he knows people who have. However, he makes things up and pretends they are facts; and he does this perfectly in line with the nonsense produced by the chattering class. It can be mildly amusing to watch as he performs his constant about turns.

239102 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Arnie, 1, #833 of 2060 🔗

I know quite a few people who have had it. For several of them it was like a bad cold, one of them was young but had pre-existing and is still poorly but that could be the pre-existing, one was very old with pre-existing and died. So yeah, I think you have “ found that narrow twisting impossible path of missing everybody”, or (far more statistically probable) you know several people who have had it without them realising.

239150 ▶▶ steph, replying to Arnie, 3, #834 of 2060 🔗

I intended to take the day off from the internet as I’m at a very low ebb and had a complete meltdown last night.
However I do have to tell you this is a real illness, it does exist and someone very close to me caught it in a hospital setting . Despite being young and incredibly fit it took her weeks to shake off. She had all of the symptoms including loss of senses of taste and smell an quite severe shortness of breath. She also had a positive test, administered correctly due to symptoms.
Yes this disease exists and can be nasty. We do ourselves no favours pretending otherwise.
However I disagree profoundly with the overreaction, the test until you find protocol rather than test upon symptoms and the wrecking of lives and economies. It has a much lower IFR than was thought in March and false positive tests are deliberately being used to skew the policy. Let’s stick to those facts and not try and deny it exists.

239234 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Arnie, 2, #835 of 2060 🔗

As it happens I know of a number of people who have tested +ve for SARS-Cov2; 5 were very mild, with just overnight fever, 1 had grotty flu effects for a while but did not require hospital and one is a relatively young guy who was one of those rarities who despite his age got it bad and was touch and go on a ventilator for a while but is reasonably recovered now.
Interestingly this is in line with WHO figures of 80% mild/asymptomatic 20% serious covid.
This just reinforces my view that the lock-down and face mask stuff is achieving nothing, we need better treatments for those who do get seriously ill and more progressive policies to protect those who are vulnerable and would like extra protection.

239282 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to Arnie, 1, #836 of 2060 🔗

I know several people in my immediate circle who have had covid (symptoms and positive test). One, a healthy woman in her thirties, was hospitalised; is now fine. Two (in their forties) had bad symptoms and are still experiencing breathing problems months later (neither needed to be hospitalised). Neighbour’s very elderly poorly sister has covid along with a lot of other end-of-life medical problems. Plus lots of students at my university have tested positive, and all have recovered as far as I have heard. I have taught several students via zoom, who were lightly unwell with covid and perfectly able to participate in teaching while in isolation; they are all back in in-person seminars now.

239517 ▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Arnie, #837 of 2060 🔗

I know of only one definite case, a friend of a friend in the next village. Aged about 80 and in poor health. Admitted to hospital and put on a ventilator, but after a couple of weeks was out and is apparently on the mend now. I’ve heard anecdotally of a couple of other cases (one a lady in her nineties who was in a care home), but that’s all.

238965 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 12, #838 of 2060 🔗

Just had some bad news, aunt of the life has died in hospital.

She’s been in there for 3 weeks (none of the family bothered telling the wife though) when she fell over, broke a hip, got that “fixed”, fell over and broke some ribs.

Strange though even with a kidney missing and a weak immune system (she was in her 80s) she never tested positive for covid so it’s not on her death certificate.

239020 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #839 of 2060 🔗

Sorry, AG; condolences to your wife. 🙁

239029 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #840 of 2060 🔗

Sincere condolences.

239066 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #841 of 2060 🔗

Many older people fall over due to dizziness as a result of prescribed medication such as diuretics etc

239190 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #842 of 2060 🔗

So sorry. Hugs to you both.

239686 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #843 of 2060 🔗

Sincere condolences to you and your wife.

238970 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 2, #844 of 2060 🔗

They’re at it again – https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/207273/covid-19-deaths-infection-fatality-ratio-about/

Claiming IFR of 1% in developed countries. Contradicts many other IFR studies – https://swprs.org/studies-on-covid-19-lethality/

238991 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 2, #845 of 2060 🔗

Full paper here and one of the authors? Mr Neil Ferguson. I shall forward to CEBM

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/mrc-gida/2020-10-29-COVID19-Report-34.pdf

239003 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Sarigan, 1, #846 of 2060 🔗

…one of the authors? Mr Neil Ferguson.

Shock! Horror! 😉

Quick look at the report: The answer to this crisis is to simply bump off the elderly. j/k

238998 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Sarigan, #847 of 2060 🔗

Jesus wept! This lot are off their trollies!

They started with an IFR of 0.9 (Ferguson’s report 9). Earlier this year they were supposedly saying it had dropped to about 0.66; now it’s back up to 1? FFS!

Edited to add: 95% prediction interval 0.78-1.79 .

239009 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Sarigan, #848 of 2060 🔗

Basically nearly all of us will get it, so 50 million are infected means 500.000 deaths. So far we haven’t reached 10% of that and the virus has picked all
the low hanging fruit.

239162 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Sarigan, 1, #849 of 2060 🔗

Is this paper peer reviewed?

This does not match the WHO recent paper. 1% IFR still would not = lockdown and misery of this scale. But it’s a Ludicrous & irresponsible paper which appears to be produced to ensure that Prof Neil is right. Shock horror. But hey if he is right it is still widely disproportionate measures.

IFR of 1% in developed countries, look at Africa you clown.

239685 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Leemc23, #850 of 2060 🔗

Read the report (a lot way over my head, obviouosly); looks like the are saying 1.15% for high income countries. This, presumably, would mean the original 500,000 death estimate would go up.

238979 Alexei, replying to Alexei, 12, #851 of 2060 🔗

Participating in a discussion called “Framework for Financing a Whole-of-Economy Transition”, here is the gurning fool Rishi Sunak, discussing “reshaping our economies to net zero” and a “positive and fair transition to net zero”:

https://youtu.be/CoCYYVmDbMU?t=5527

That convergent opportunism just keeps getting more opportunistic and convergent, LOL.

It goes without saying the economy-wrecking charlatan says “the public and private sector will be working with common purpose”.

Folks, we are fucked.

239004 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Alexei, 3, #852 of 2060 🔗

Convergent Opportunism:

Six men decide, independently of each other, to rob the bank. They all turn up at exactly the same time, recognize each other, are all massively surprised , and decide to form a team, with each man performing his own specialty.

239050 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Alexei, 4, #853 of 2060 🔗

Truly frightening.This whole crisis seems a smokescreen to usher in Zero Carbon.Like all Utopian dreams it will fail but it has and will cause horrendous damage to our civilisation,if not end it.
Those on here who still cling to the incompetence theory need to wake up.
Our leaders are meeting in plain site now and preparing the way.
Vaccine leads to Health/digital passport tied with Digital currency.This is the end of freedom as we know it.When we emerge from the wreckage of our economy the state will be the paymaster.

239059 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #854 of 2060 🔗

I would caution you about using the term “we”. What emerges from the vaccine will not be recognisable as, and genetically may not be, fully human.

239117 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Richard O, 1, #855 of 2060 🔗

Personally I don’t think the first vaccine will be that dangerous.Its more about establishing the control grid on the back of it.
I will stick to facts
Vaccine = heath passport
UBI and digital currency.
These are coming and will spell the end of freedom as we know it.
What comes in later vaccines is a matter of speculation.

238989 Mrs issedoff, replying to Mrs issedoff, 3, #856 of 2060 🔗

What the hell, GCSE and A levels cancelled for 2021!.

239008 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Mrs issedoff, 4, #857 of 2060 🔗

Absolutely disgraceful. The abject acquiescence of the teaching profession to every single attack on the youth in fear of the virus is utterly shameful

239016 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Mrs issedoff, 3, #858 of 2060 🔗

A clear indication of the direction of travel.

The authorities know with what they have planned for us that school examinations are not going to be needed.

Parents be warned: your children are probably top of the list for the DNA altering vaccine, and your consent will not be sought.

239033 ▶▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to Richard O, 2, #859 of 2060 🔗

Just re read on BBC website, apologies, it is for Wales but I’m sure England will follow!.

239100 ▶▶▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Mrs issedoff, #860 of 2060 🔗

My eldest daughter is hopping mad about it, given the inevitably cascade across the rest of the UK. She wanted the exams as she wants to go to medical school on merit.

However given my youngest was sent home for 14 days yesterday for the offence of sitting three rows across from somebody last Wednesday who tested positive over the weekend, it’s hardly surprising.

It’s the 14 day dogma that is the problem.

239122 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Mrs issedoff, 3, #861 of 2060 🔗

Education Minister Kirsty Williams: “Today I’m pleased to confirm Wales’ approach for qualifications in 2021.”

She’s pleased? I’m sure all the parents will be equally delighted… NOT! FFS!

239135 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mrs issedoff, 2, #862 of 2060 🔗

Minimal education is all that is required for the mechanicals after the reset

238993 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 11, #863 of 2060 🔗

Another threat to free speech. My view is that it should be a criminal offence to threaten free speech.

Form the Telegraph (paywall). Apologies if already posted (Toby mentioned it above).

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/11/10/spreading-anti-vaxx-myths-should-made-criminal-offence/

It should be made a criminal offence to spread anti-vaxx myths and the public should report offenders, the Royal Society and British Academy have said amid concerns that baseless fears over a coronavirus vaccine will damage uptake.

A rapid review on Covid-19 Vaccine Deployment has called for people to be “inoculated” against misinformation, which can spread rapidly on social media.

. . . .

239000 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Tenchy, 9, #864 of 2060 🔗

My view is that it should be a criminal offence to threaten free speech .”

LOL! Yes, an apt response to the illiberal left’s hypocritical and mendacious nonsense about “not tolerating intolerance”.

239011 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Tenchy, 7, #865 of 2060 🔗

Funny that the RS just happens to be yet another Gates Foundation funding recipient.

239014 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Tenchy, 5, #866 of 2060 🔗

Whoever wrote that fears around mass deployment of experimental vaccine technology with no long term studies into its safety or efficacy are “baseless” is an enemy of humanity itself. Totally demonic.

The Telegraph has gone over to the dark side.

239083 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Richard O, 5, #867 of 2060 🔗

No it hasn’t, it is reporting a statement from a couple of organisations, that is what journalism is. If it says in an editorial that people who question vaccines should be arrested that is a different matter.

239015 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Tenchy, 6, #868 of 2060 🔗

I know what truth is.

I know what lies are.

Misinformation – what is that?

Something is true or it is not.

239046 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Tenchy, 5, #869 of 2060 🔗

Can’t make it a criminal offence to question something in a free society. Are we still in a free society?

Children spend the first 10 or more years of their lives asking “Why?” Adults should have that right up till the day they die.

239132 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Tenchy, 3, #870 of 2060 🔗

Hands down, the most prolific purveyor of disinformation is our own government. I’m getting sick to death of every system being rigged in favour of their nonsense.

239013 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 13, #871 of 2060 🔗

Hello 😊

Hope you are all having a good day.

I have to say I am finding this “lockdown” hard and I have an only child of 7 who is missing her friends. Their mums don’t want to break the rules so we aren’t socialising.

There’s two parts to me finding this hard
1. Spending too much time on Twitter and getting too absorbed with it all. There’s a limit to what information you can take in and what you can do to change things.
2. Lack of face to face contact for me and my child.

Anybody got any ideas? Do you know if there’s any websites that highlight those that want to meet up with kids? Maybe by area?

I genuinely have a low mood right now, so I’m not at all concerned about my reasonable excuse to leave the house, I just need to find like-minded people to meet up with.

I’d welcome any ideas you have.

CM x

239022 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Country Mumkin, 2, #872 of 2060 🔗

Not sure what where you live is like, but our local play park was rammed last weekend, lots of people with children playing normally, enjoying the last days of sunshine.

I think it counts as exercise – not sure though (the “guidance” might have changed since I started typing this)

The town council haven’t locked up children’s play areas round here like they did last time.

239030 ▶▶▶ kenadams, replying to captainbeefheart, 3, #873 of 2060 🔗

Same here. And no-one was wearing a face mask. It almost felt normal.

239060 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to captainbeefheart, 2, #874 of 2060 🔗

Same here

240109 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to captainbeefheart, #875 of 2060 🔗

Thank you 🙂

239023 ▶▶ Johet, replying to Country Mumkin, 2, #876 of 2060 🔗

Hi CM

I’m sorry to hear things are really hard for you at the moment. I’d happily met up with you but I have no idea where you are in the country. Have you put out a request on F.B? I know from my own local group that you might get a lot of negative comments but equally there seem to be more and more people out there who are more than happy to offer support and can see the damage that this Lockdown is doing to everyone’s mental health.

240108 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Johet, #877 of 2060 🔗

Thank you 🙂 I have had a good few chats today and arranged two outings one for the weekend and one just for me next week 😊

239027 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Country Mumkin, 3, #878 of 2060 🔗

I sympathise with problem 1, some days I find myself obsessed with checking the latest developments online to the detriment of my actual life and my children’s lives.

For problem 2, maybe just try taking your daughter to the local playground. I went with my daughter to the local park over the weekend and it was very busy. She played with some new friends and bumped into some of her friends from school.

240106 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, #879 of 2060 🔗

Thanks. That’s exactly it. Spending too much time checking the latest is really shaping my reality. Not good for me. Appreciate you sharing your experience x

239028 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #880 of 2060 🔗

Exercise, walking will do, at least an hour in the brightest part of the day , every day, even if you don’t feel like it go

What part of the world are you in?

240104 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Cecil B, #881 of 2060 🔗

Thank you 🙂

239034 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #882 of 2060 🔗

Aw lots of hugs your way CM. It’s awful for the kids. I am lucky that most of my other Mum friends dont give a hoot about restrictions and are happy for us to have playdates at one anothers houses.
I had considered how good it would be if there was some way for like minded sceptics to meet locally. Sorry I don’t have any useful ideas I’m afraid but hope someone here can offer some.
I would say that it’s best to take yourself away from any type of media for a day or two, it does help your mind. I tend not to look at any media at all over the weekend and the days my kids aren’t at creche, I dont have time for it much anyway with two toddlers, but I would just take them to the park or somewhere outdoors and do arts and crafts with them. Sometimes even just escaping into a Disney movie! I found that when I am looking at SM,MSM and even on here, my mood can get quite low as my mind is absorbed in it all, which isn’t good.

240103 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Janice21, #883 of 2060 🔗

Thank you Janice. That all rings really true for me. Thanks for sharing your experience x

239044 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #884 of 2060 🔗

Hi CM. Really feel for you. I don’t have children so I can’t imagine how hard that must feel to see your daughter missing social time.

I deleted Twitter a couple of months back. I can still check out any tweet links posted here through the web browser if they look particularly interesting. I was never much of a tweeter, so perhaps it was easier for me to adjust but I haven’t missed it at all. Maybe remove the temptation for a while?

240099 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Charlie Blue, #885 of 2060 🔗

Thank you. I think losing Twitter is going to be very helpful for me 🙂

239057 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Country Mumkin, 2, #886 of 2060 🔗

Young man I spoke to yesterday said he went to the skate park on Sunday with his younger brother.
Reckons it was as busy as he’s ever seen it and with no masks in sight.

239260 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to Country Mumkin, #887 of 2060 🔗

I’m afraid I haven’t got any ideas about how to meet other people – for me that is the hardest thing about lockdown: my friends won’t break the law, so my willingness to do so is rather moot in relation to social contact.
But I do think you and your daughter could plan an expedition together – an afternoon somewhere nice, outdoors – the coast? a forest? by the river? somewhere where there are always lots of birds to watch or feed? You could take special snacks for yourselves, and make up a game or draw a picture when you get there. If you travel on public transport, just have a simple story ready, in case anyone questions you, about how you are travelling to visit your support bubble or to provide or secure childcare.
Then when you get home, you could post here about what you did together.

240097 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Alethea, #888 of 2060 🔗

Thank you 🙂

239335 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Country Mumkin, #889 of 2060 🔗

My wife and I occasionally comfort ourselves with the relief that this nonsense came to pass after our children were adult but before grandchildren. It must be much worse for those with young children like yourself.

The only suggestion I can make is to use the forums here to try to find like minded people in your area to meet up with. “Play dating” is as important an issue as adult dating imo. Usual precautions about meeting internet strangers apply, of course.

240096 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Mark, #890 of 2060 🔗

Thank you 🙂

239374 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Country Mumkin, #891 of 2060 🔗

For me, reading and running.taking the kids to parks and local forest. Get off media.

240093 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #892 of 2060 🔗

Thank you 🙂

239024 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 30, #893 of 2060 🔗

The Royal Society is so concerned about uptake that it is calling for anti-vaxxers to be prosecuted if they spread misinformation about the dangers.

This is truly shocking. The Royal Society wants the state to criminalise the right to freedom of expression. These people should rebrand themselves as the Royal Inquisitors. They are traitors to the values of the Enlightenment, and the whole history of science (broadly understood) and rights, liberty and democracy. They are a disgrace.

239054 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Steve Hayes, 7, #894 of 2060 🔗

Indeed.

WE tell you vaccines are safe. You do not have the right to transparency or more information as this will give you the opportunity to weigh up the information and make an informed decision on your own health!

WE will not do trials that compare the vaccinated against the unvaccinated

Vaccine damage or death is for the greater good

Good luck with trying to prove the disability or death is as a result of the vaccine. Even if you do, we will keep the case going for years and try and pay you as little as possible.

Vaccine manufacturiers are protected from cicvil liability if the vaccine is later found to cause harm

Improve your immune system, it protects you against viruses, bacteria and other pathogens.

Always read the vaccine / prescribed drugs leaflet for side effects and then make an informed decision whether to take it or not

239070 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Victoria, 4, #895 of 2060 🔗

The Expert who was explaining the vaccine to Jeremy Vine said words to the effect
“it might be that for younger people who generally have no symptoms could have more side effects from the vaccine than from Covid itself and so it might not be suitable for them, we just don’t know yet”

239158 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #896 of 2060 🔗

Fuk ’em. I’ll pay the fine. If I can’t afford it I’ll do the time. But still fuk’ em…

239369 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Steve Hayes, #897 of 2060 🔗

It’s discrimination and should be soundly rebuffed. Alternatively start a business opposing theirs.

239039 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 12, #898 of 2060 🔗

Maureen who runs a Latin American dance studio asked Jeremy Vine

“will you get a Certificate when you take the vaccine because we’re only going to allow people who’ve had it”.

Jesse wept.

239042 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to karenovirus, 10, #899 of 2060 🔗

Stupid cow. There will be no dancing after the Great Reset.

239468 ▶▶▶ TT, replying to Richard O, 2, #900 of 2060 🔗

Are you kidding? Daily dancing, flag-waving and clapping for the heroes of the Great Reset will be mandatory!

239049 ▶▶ DRW, replying to karenovirus, 5, #901 of 2060 🔗

What do you expect from Whine, just arsey Kens and Karens trumpeting the ‘correct’ opinion.

239064 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to karenovirus, 15, #902 of 2060 🔗

She probably doesn’t exist.The idea that those who refuse the vaccine should be excluded from normal life will be seeded into the public consciousness through phone ins etc
Anyone who doubts do your own research into health/digital passports.
Scans q codes track and trace are means to get us used to the idea .

239112 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 4, #903 of 2060 🔗

You are probably correct about the underhand tactics the government behavioural scientists use. I wouldn’t feel the slightest bit sorry for them if they had adverse reactions to a rushed vaccine after all the pain they have caused with their psychological warfare. They should all face time in prison.

239165 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 3, #904 of 2060 🔗

You might be right, it was not a live call JV just quoted ‘her’.

239114 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to karenovirus, 3, #905 of 2060 🔗

Bang goes Maureen’s business!

239641 ▶▶ Cranmer, replying to karenovirus, 3, #906 of 2060 🔗

‘Maureen who runs a Latin American dance studio’ sounds like one of those cringeworthy (and probably faked) emails that Corbyn used to read out in Parliament ‘I have an email from Doris who is concerned about bin collections’ etc.

239041 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 7, #907 of 2060 🔗

I have received a text message from a friend from college who I’ve been close to for nearly 50 years. She has 2 PhDs and several other higher degrees. She believes everything:

‘Bad news. I am afraid J [her early 30s daughter] has got coronavirus. She is poorly but not too bad at the moment, fit and young’

I have resisted the temptation to quiz my friend on the circumstances e.g. has she just tested positive? has she downloaded the app etc? And ‘coronavirus’? – that’s how well-informed she is!

If we were not continually being told that flu has been replaced by Covid (even Ivor Cummins says this) I’d assume that someone of her age being ‘poorly’ despite being ‘young and fit’ had actually got the flu which could be more serious.

I thought to myself, imagine getting a text from a friend last year with only one message i.e. that their adult child had got a cold or the flu, not even as a ‘by the way’. It’s another measure of how far we have sunk.

Coincidentally, yesterday, I had a long conversation with another friend from the same era. She is much further down the road to scepticism but still thinks it’s good that there’s going to be a ‘90% effective vaccine’ and she discounts the whistle-blowing nurse on the grounds that there have never been many ‘cases’ in the south west. I did my best with her, especially as I really smell a rat with the timing of this vaccine announcement. And it seems it’s been sitting around in warehouses for months and they’re going to foist it on the elderly??? Not to mention a simultaneous serious jacking-up of the threats to so-called anti-vaxxers. MW

239047 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 6, #908 of 2060 🔗

Which is why the voluntary uptake of the vaccine is going to be much higher than any of us on here expect.

239052 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Richard O, 3, #909 of 2060 🔗

Yes, I fear you are right. To be fair, my friend didn’t say she was keen to have it. I explained to her how we will be herded into getting it. She was shocked but she doesn’t like to ‘rock the boat’ so I think she would give in if it promised a return to ‘normal life’, which of course it won’t be. MW

239078 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #910 of 2060 🔗

It beggars belief that millions of people are about to voluntarily consent to horrors that even the darkest of dystopian writers would have struggled to conjure in their imagination.

Death, serious physical/mental injury, infertility and permanently altered DNA making them effectively post-human. All perfectly normal.

239094 ▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 6, #911 of 2060 🔗

“Rock the boat”? Is she aware that we’re on the Titanic?

239113 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Achilles, 1, #912 of 2060 🔗

Yes, she is starting to realise. She’s just not a gob-shite or natural trouble-maker like me. 🙂 MW

239071 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Richard O, 3, #913 of 2060 🔗

I think it will be very high and expect many will be complaining that they have to wait for it. A certain group of parents will no doubt be screaming for their children to be ‘protected’.

239137 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Charlie Blue, 2, #914 of 2060 🔗

It looks like they will be using the well-known scam of pumping-up demand by creating artificial shortages as is often done with flu vaccines. Certain groups will be prioritised, like the old, vulnerable and NHS staff. This guarantees that the rest will clamour for it. MW

239336 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #915 of 2060 🔗

That’s a good point. I’ve recently had a friend get a positive test for SARS-CoV-2 and he’s had a rough enough few days. High heart rate meant he went to get checked out.

He’s given me an update on things but it’s like I wouldn’t have know much if this was last year. People are so engulfed in the fear that a + PCR has them acting likes they’ve contracted Ebola.

He’s fine now, thought the doctor has already warned him the high heart rate may be Long Covid.

239779 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #916 of 2060 🔗

Now that is interesting. I had what the practice nurse diagnosed as bronchitis last December. I was really quite poorly but I got a bit better after a week or so. Then I got worse. One morning, I couldn’t breathe and couldn’t even take my asthma sprays, which was a bit scary! AlanG called 111 and an ambulance came, much to my embarrassment, to take me to hospital, which I refused. They tested everything but were only really concerned about my high heart rate. They gave me aspirin and told me to rest. I then saw the GP who prescribed antibiotics as he was worried about it turning to pneumonia.

3 weeks after me, AlanG got it. His cough was so bad he was passing out in the night; a condition our GP called Cough Syncope. For 2 weeks I could only take my asthma sprays with a nebuliser but then we both recovered. I was weaker than Alan for a further couple of weeks but we gradually got stronger and fitter, getting out for hill walks and bike-rides as much as we could.

11 months later, we still have slight residual coughs and catarrh – it’s damp in the High Peak after all – but we’re now otherwise as fit as fiddles at 67 and 71. We would not dream of whingeing about ‘long bronchitis’. ‘Long Covid’ has to be an invention – post-viral symptoms are not at all uncommon.

A lot of people round here had similar respiratory infections in December-January.and many think that it was Covid. They think that is why there’ve been hardly any ‘cases’, real or false-positive, even during March-April. We’re not sure but who knows? MW

239061 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #917 of 2060 🔗

In other news, the comrades are at it again. I think they are right to be shocked (irony alert!) as ‘many transport workers have passed away from this awful illness’.

Quick, RMT, you’d better join the Zero-Covid campaign, so you can get us locked-down forever and bring down the Tories while keeping us all super-safe:

LUL are refusing to send staff home after a workmate reports a positive Covid-19 result. This includes staff who would have been working with their colleague potentially for many hours per day and up to 8 days in a row together.

The policy flies in the face of Government guidelines that clearly state that you MUST isolate for 14 days if you have been in contact with a Covid-19 positive person and face a fine if you knowingly don’t.

Also, and most disturbing, Tube bosses have instructed staff to TURN OFF the NHS Covid-19 phone app that is being used as an essential tool in the fight against the pandemic. This is also against government guidelines and the union believes it is morally reprehensible.

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/tube-union-rmt-condemns-lul-policy-on-positive-covid-19-tests/ MW

239062 Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, #918 of 2060 🔗

Email from my Labour MP regarding my letter to her to vote against Lockdown 2.0:

Thank you for contacting me about a second national lockdown in England.

From 5 November 2020 until 2 December 2020, people in England will only be permitted to leave home for specific reasons, including: education; work; exercise and recreation outdoors; medical reasons; to shop for food and essentials; and to provide care for vulnerable people, or as a volunteer.

Essential shops will remain open and click-and-collect services will continue. Schools, colleges, universities, childcare and early years settings will also remain open. However, non-essential shops, leisure and entertainment venues and the personal care sector will be closed.
Provision for non-COVID-19-related healthcare will continue and people are being advised to use the NHS, attend appointments and collect treatments in the usual way.

Everybody is concerned about the rise in infections, hospital admissions and – tragically – the number of deaths. People in our constituency and right across the country will be anxious about what will happen in England over the coming weeks; anxious about their health and the health of their friends and family, and anxious about their jobs.

That is why three weeks ago I joined with my colleagues in calling on the UK Government to implement a short circuit-break in England, in line with the recommendations of scientific advisors.

I am disappointed that Ministers in the UK Government did not act on the recommendations of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE) back in September, only now to ask MPs to approve emergency regulations to shut England down. I am concerned that the delay in introducing restrictions will come at an economic cost and a human cost, and as a result, this lockdown will be longer than it needed to be.

I did not come into Parliament to restrict people’s freedoms, ​to prevent people meeting their friends and their loved ones, or to decide when people can and cannot leave their home or how many people may attend a funeral. I do not want Parliament to be closing businesses, gyms, bars or places of worship. Indeed, I do not want Parliament to be legislating on any of these issues, least of all after the British public have made so many enormous sacrifices already.

While these new restrictions for England are not in any way desirable or perfect, I do not believe there is any excuse for inaction or for allowing the virus to continue to spread. It is with a heavy heart, and in the national interest, that I support them.

People in our constituency and across the country will want to know that there is a plan for exiting restrictions. The UK Government has so far not set out what criteria will be used to judge whether the lockdown should be lifted in England and I hope that they will clarify this as a matter of urgency.

More widely, I believe the UK Government must use this lockdown to expand testing and fix contact tracing. This should include regular testing programmes to ensure key workers and those most at risk are using new, readily available rapid turn-around tests, including those developed by UK universities.

Scaling up community testing is vital to help protect jobs and restore confidence in businesses and the economy, and to keep workers, their families and communities safe by identifying those who may be carrying the virus without symptoms. I believe a plan to roll out strategic mass testing would give a clear, coherent roadmap for the next phase of containing the virus.

The Test and Trace system in England has been overwhelmed and concerns have repeatedly been raised about the speed at which test results are returned, the number of contacts of positive cases being reached, and the extent to which data about confirmed cases is shared with local authorities and local public health teams. The outsourcing of Test and Trace to private firms has been widely criticised by experts, including the British Medical Association. I have long argued that local public health teams and the NHS, backed by resources and national support, would be more effective at contact tracing.

Finally, I support calls for the UK Government to use the Spending Review, due on 25 November 2020, to give the NHS and social care sector in England the funding needed throughout lockdown and beyond.

Thank you once again for contacting me about this important issue. I will continue to bear in mind the points you have raised as matters relating to lockdown and restrictions are debated.

Best wishes,

Anneliese

Anneliese Dodds MP
Member of Parliament for Oxford East

239073 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Ozzie, 3, #919 of 2060 🔗

Standard Labour position

239074 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, 3, #920 of 2060 🔗

I think that this is of particular concern:

Finally, I support calls for the UK Government to use the Spending Review, due on 25 November 2020, to give the NHS and social care sector in England the funding needed throughout lockdown and beyond.

How much more money does the NHS need?

239093 ▶▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Ozzie, 1, #921 of 2060 🔗

Why don’t you ask her what she would buy with it and what that resource is currently being used for that it can’t be used for if the government buys it.

239288 ▶▶▶ Polemon2, replying to Ozzie, #922 of 2060 🔗

The NHS could spend the whole UK budget and still find that it needed more.

239261 ▶▶ Ricky R, replying to Ozzie, 1, #923 of 2060 🔗

Had the exact same email word for word from my MP Alan Whitehead. Pisstake.

239628 ▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Ozzie, #924 of 2060 🔗

That’s pretty much what my (Tory) MP sent me as well.

239077 Awkward Git, 3, #925 of 2060 🔗

Here’s The Royal Society’s contacts:

https://royalsociety.org/about-us/contact-us/

Fill your boots, have fun.

239079 petgor, replying to petgor, 3, #926 of 2060 🔗

I need an annual glaucoma test from my optician. I have an exemption. Despite my stated reason behind my exemption, I have been refused a test. A friend with a similar exemption was refused service in a cafe.

Is this unusual or are others experiencing the same attitude?

239110 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to petgor, 1, #927 of 2060 🔗

Do you mean for masks? If so they are breaching the Equality Act 2010 and could be fined

239127 ▶▶▶ petgor, replying to Ozzie, 3, #928 of 2060 🔗

Because I am so angry my post was incomplete. I wasn’t wearing a mask. The guidelines are clear but people and businesses are making up their own rules.

239161 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to petgor, 2, #929 of 2060 🔗

That’s exactly what they are doing. Have a look here:

https://www.laworfiction.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Face-Covering-Exemption-Notice-with-Law-Explained-24-July-2020.pdf

You can then go on to look at the actual legislation etc., if you like.

239111 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to petgor, 6, #930 of 2060 🔗

My optician asked about mask, but accepted I was exempt. I have some sympathy with them because it’s fairly close contact, but they are on shaky ground legally, if they refuse you service, as much discussed here.
Apart from your exemption, last time I looked opticians premises are also exempt from the definition of a place where masks must be worn, although staff still have to wear them.

239149 ▶▶▶ Alice, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #931 of 2060 🔗

They claim that exemptions don’t apply because it’s a healthcare setting (the actual eyesight test room, not necessarily the shop). I had to endure the tests with a mask on – rare experience for me, and very unpleasant. The ophthalmologist even asked me if I wanted a break halfway through the test, so alarmed was she by my discomfort. It was all for nothing – I was told new lenses wouldn’t be much use, and was referred for cataract assessment. Some time next year, I hope…

239179 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Alice, #932 of 2060 🔗

Interesting, masks in healthcare settings is guidance, but this is law (Exemptions from definition of ‘shop’):

7. Premises (other than registered pharmacies) providing wholly or mainly medical or dental services, audiology services, chiropody, chiropractic, osteopathic, optometry or other medical services including services relating to mental health.

As petgor says, they’re making it up.

239118 ▶▶ Kev, replying to petgor, 4, #933 of 2060 🔗

You and your friend are being discriminated against, as per the 2010 Equality Act. Others on here may know more details.

239133 ▶▶ calchas, replying to petgor, 2, #934 of 2060 🔗

Is it possible that wearing a mask could impact the IOP reading?

Further, many scientists have linked glaucoma with a reduced oxygen supply for the optic nerve.

Has anyone done any research on mask-wearing and glaucoma?

Probably not.

239160 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to petgor, 1, #935 of 2060 🔗

It is precisely the same as refusing you service for having a guide dog or wheelchair.

239184 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to karenovirus, #936 of 2060 🔗

Nail/Head thing, KoV.

239199 ▶▶ davews, replying to petgor, #937 of 2060 🔗

Do you mean the field of view test? I had my normal eye test in August, no mask but exemption lanyard, and no problems, not even any questions. But although they did all the usual checks they did not do the glaucoma field view one. It may be that they have stopped doing that because of infection issues? This was Specsavers.

239257 ▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to petgor, 2, #938 of 2060 🔗

Your optician is, to be blunt, full of shit. I had an eye test back in September that included a glaucoma pressure test due to familial glaucoma. Mask wearing was mentioned when I phoned for an appointment. Told them I was exempt. No further dramas and eye test completed successfully. I noted on here a while back that independents seem to be more pragmatic than the chains because they don’t have to follow corporate edicts.

239082 Hieronimusb, replying to Hieronimusb, 5, #939 of 2060 🔗

If Julia Hartley Brewer
Swam in a sewer
She would come out
Smelling of roses

(after EJ Thribb, 17)

239220 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Hieronimusb, #940 of 2060 🔗

Actually the great EJ Thribb normally writes free verse without rhymes.

239248 ▶▶▶ Hieronimusb, replying to Edward, #941 of 2060 🔗

Poetic licence – or have they too been withdrawn?!

240410 ▶▶ Borisbullshit, replying to Hieronimusb, #942 of 2060 🔗

She can be very irritating.

239312 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Awkward Git, #944 of 2060 🔗

It wouldn’t be the craziest thing I’ve ever heard that turned out to be true.

239088 Darryl, replying to Darryl, 8, #945 of 2060 🔗

It’s disturbing that the 13 people chosen for Biden’s Coronavirus Task Force have connections with the CIA, Gate Foundation, National Security Council and Counter terrorism experts. Listening to this (from 56 minutes) makes me realise how delusional people are if they think they are going to take a vaccine and be allowed to go back to normal.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/WM6CrFULXeI6/ WARP SPEED ILLUSION, LACKING BIOETHICS & CDC QUARANTINE CAMPS

239120 ▶▶ nickbowes, replying to Darryl, 3, #946 of 2060 🔗

The populations of the world are far greater than a few v rich people in dark rooms. They need to remember what happened to Mussolini.

239325 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to nickbowes, #947 of 2060 🔗

The world is a very different place. I am not convinced people could fight back against a technocrat / dictator in a technologically advanced western country. Control of the narrative is so tight held via the controlled media / secret services and the military weapons which would be deployed by the police / army to defend the dictators are pretty terrifying.

239090 RickH, replying to RickH, 22, #948 of 2060 🔗

The Royal Society is so concerned about uptake that it is calling for anti-vaxxers to be prosecuted if they spread misinformation about the dangers.”

It looks as if the Royal Society has demolished its credibility in one statement.

The society’s motto is “ Nullius in verba “.

How far it has fallen

239104 ▶▶ TJN, replying to RickH, 9, #949 of 2060 🔗

Indeed. ‘Nothing on authority’. ‘Question everything you’re told’.

It appears to me that every institution is failing right now.

239106 ▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 4, #950 of 2060 🔗

Heh! Excellent “gotcha”.

239154 ▶▶ Kev, replying to RickH, 4, #951 of 2060 🔗

Royal Society lost all its credibility over its unquestioning support for “Climate Change” Question everything except obvious frauds should be their motto, my Latin is not good enough to know what that would translate to.

239185 ▶▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Kev, 1, #952 of 2060 🔗

Probably

An nescis, mi fili, quantilla prudentia mundus regatur?

239222 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Lucan Grey, #953 of 2060 🔗

Well I’m impressed …

239217 ▶▶ Edward, replying to RickH, #954 of 2060 🔗

If I was a Fellow of the Royal Society (chance would be a fine thing) I would hand back my FRS.

239219 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to RickH, 1, #955 of 2060 🔗

It’s credibility went months ago, when their leader supported masking. You were around back then Rick, please keep up. 🙂

239091 nickbowes, replying to nickbowes, 7, #956 of 2060 🔗

In Wales they are not allowing A Level or GCSE exams for 2021. Hope English students careers are not going to be ruined by this type of idiotic policy.

239097 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to nickbowes, 1, #957 of 2060 🔗

Why are they doing that, have they said?

239107 ▶▶▶ nickbowes, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #958 of 2060 🔗

Its on the BBC website now, disgraceful, i expect the fat clown will follow.

239119 ▶▶▶▶ Ozzie, replying to nickbowes, 5, #959 of 2060 🔗

Please no! Students need exams and the target to work for. There is no reason students can’t sit these exams.

239126 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Ozzie, 7, #960 of 2060 🔗

I expect exams and targets will be redundant in the planned future.

239183 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to DRW, 2, #961 of 2060 🔗

How will the ascertain whether or not someone is smart enough to fix their windmills or design their solar powered tanks?

239209 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 2, #962 of 2060 🔗

AI will do that.

239136 ▶▶▶▶▶ nickbowes, replying to Ozzie, 5, #963 of 2060 🔗

There will be a time when the people simply ignore “state” schooling/programming and revert back to a community education as the only way to get some sort of “normal” education . .

239129 ▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to nickbowes, 3, #964 of 2060 🔗

Inevitable

239148 ▶▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Achilles, 4, #965 of 2060 🔗

My friend’s y11 son is serving a 2 week self isolation sentence with the rest of his year after 1 positive test in the group. as long as this nonsense continues having formal exams is pointless.

239180 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #966 of 2060 🔗

My youngest daughter was hit with the same yesterday. The contact was last Wednesday.

239206 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Foxglove, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #967 of 2060 🔗

My daughter is off ‘well’ too. Someone on the bus had a positive PCR. So many kids are off school there is no way any exam system could be fair, given that the private schools seem to be carrying on as normal. Why would you deliberately cause your child to miss school for two weeks when you are paying at least £500 for those two weeks. You just give them a paracetamol and keep your head down.

239242 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, replying to Foxglove, 2, #968 of 2060 🔗

My nephew had a slight runny nose last week. The teachers were fine about it, but his fellow students ostracized him and wouldn’t come near him so my brother had to keep him home from school even though he was perfectly well. This is what we’ve done to children. What a nasty, germaphobic generation we’ve got coming up.

239264 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Foxglove, 1, #969 of 2060 🔗

I assume all the children are made to wear masks on the bus – so if by their argument this protects you, why do they need to isolate. More illogical responses to their own argument/propoganda.

239177 ▶▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #970 of 2060 🔗

Wales have cancelled exams and replaced them with teacher’s assessments for this season.

239098 ▶▶ DRW, replying to nickbowes, 5, #971 of 2060 🔗

Their futures were already ruined.

239484 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to DRW, #972 of 2060 🔗

They have no future.

239121 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to nickbowes, 4, #973 of 2060 🔗

Schools will not be safe places to send children anyway.

239134 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to nickbowes, 2, #974 of 2060 🔗

Idiocracy – a comedy, not a documentary…

DavidC

239319 ▶▶ leggy, replying to nickbowes, 1, #975 of 2060 🔗

Our resident 17 year old (England) has already been told his grades will be assessed, no exams.

239099 Ozzie, 2, #976 of 2060 🔗

I was pleased to be reminded of this (article above, on the vaccine) – perhaps it should be a LS motto of sorts:

“As Charles Mackay said in Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds, “Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.””

239128 chris, replying to chris, 6, #977 of 2060 🔗

Apparently Pfizer boss has virtue signalled that the company would not take Gov money to develop a CV vaccine because bureaucracy would have slowed the development. One obviously informed commentator responded:

“The Pfizer rep is somewhat economical when saying they didn’t take government money.

They have presold the vaccine to governments and have set their own exam they need to pass to make the sale. In the words of an editorial in the British Medical Journal – the trials are “ designed to answer the easiest question in the least amount of time, not the most clinically relevant questions”.

We all know that this operation was always, first and foremost, to trigger a pandemic on diluted WHO criteria and then trigger secret contingent vaccine purchase contracts. So now we know that the vaccines will probably be safe but largely ineffective.

239138 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to chris, 2, #978 of 2060 🔗

I thought Whitty and Valance were GSK not Pfizer? They’ll be fucking fuming.

239141 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to steve_w, 1, #979 of 2060 🔗

They’ll probably recommend herd immunity tomorrow.

239245 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to steve_w, #980 of 2060 🔗

Vallance is GSK, Whitty WHO.

239267 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to DRW, #981 of 2060 🔗

Couldn’t be any worse – Big Pharma and the Manchurian candidate.

239142 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to chris, 2, #982 of 2060 🔗

I missed have missed something. How do we know that the vaccines will be safe?

239171 ▶▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Steve Hayes, #983 of 2060 🔗

Over 20,000 people have had it and there have been no material issues with it – according to the trial.

239191 ▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Lucan Grey, #984 of 2060 🔗

‘so far’

239201 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to steve_w, #985 of 2060 🔗

How far does it need to go – particularly given how many willing volunteers will be queuing up to take this new anti-anxiety medicine?

239344 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Lucan Grey, #986 of 2060 🔗

They can queue up as much as they like but they won’t be getting it any time soon unless they’re in the flu vaccine bracket, I.e.old, infirm or work in healthcare. Or choose to pay.

239212 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Lucan Grey, 2, #987 of 2060 🔗

So you have seen the data, which included full medical details on all the participants, and stated all health outcomes, including all cause mortality, and the study was conducted for more than a decade?

239230 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #988 of 2060 🔗

Exactly. No vaccine is safe for everyone — just read the package insert of any of them. It’s just a correlation, but since increasing the number of childhood vaccines to something like 72 since the mid-1980s, we have the most unhealthy population of children. I’m sure the crap that passes for food isn’t helpful either. Short of dropping dead minutes after being vaccinated, the manufacturers and medical profession pushing vaccines will do everything possible to not admit the vaccine had anything to do with the death or injury.

239525 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, #989 of 2060 🔗

Excellent comment.

239295 ▶▶▶ chris, replying to Steve Hayes, #990 of 2060 🔗

I don’t know if they will be safe. But if the drug companies want to make easy money selling vaccines for a comparatively harmless virus. It makes sense to prioritse safety over effectiveness. That’s how flu jabs work, safe rather than effective That way the drug companies can appear as good guys and in a year or so repeat the scam. If you look up PANDEMRIX you will see that the drug companies got it wrong in 2009 (Swine flu) when they tried this scam last time.

239170 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to chris, 1, #991 of 2060 🔗

“Vendor financing” as it is known in the trade.

239197 ▶▶ Hieronimusb, replying to chris, 5, #992 of 2060 🔗

How dare you, these vaccines will contain at least 2 compounds previously unknown to science: tap water and sodium chloride.. Let’s face it, with 70-80% of those exposed being asymptomatic and a 99.6% survival rate, they really don’t have to try very hard.

239203 ▶▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Hieronimusb, #993 of 2060 🔗

85 symptomatic cases in 22,167 individuals with placebo. A symptomatic infection rate of 0.4%

239215 ▶▶▶▶ Hieronimusb, replying to Lucan Grey, 1, #994 of 2060 🔗

Seduce me sideways, it’s worse than we thought, and they probably had to hold those poor buggers’ heads in a bucket of it all day to get that many!

239207 ▶▶▶ MsStroppster, replying to Hieronimusb, 2, #995 of 2060 🔗

Yes I think it’s saline too… never heard of any vaccine or drug with zero side effects and I worked for AZ for 20 years in Clinical IS, drug safety and clinical trials.

239130 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 16, #996 of 2060 🔗

I am venturing outside. Wish me luck fellow sceps….
Of into psy-op looney la la land once more!

239221 ▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to Two-Six, 2, #997 of 2060 🔗

I dedicate this Old Skool Club Choon to the maskers out there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbcG2TI4GBk

Just back from a trip to the garage to get a tyre replaced and also been for my walk in rural Englandshire and report the following:

Compliance amongst a sample of two zombies is high. At the garage I can see that the reception desk and all the mechanics are not wearing masks and are not social-distancing. Great thinks I, an oasis of sanity. Not so, access to the reception desk is barred so someone comes to the reception door to greet me and on the way put a mask on. No need to put that on my account says I. There was what I took be a little nervous laugh but no attempt to take the mask off.

The walk: Older person approaching me in the opposite direction on narrow country lane and as they get within 4 m of me pulls a bloody scarf up over their face. Again, no need to bother says I. They did say something in reply but I time my walk and I had some baingin’ choons going so I didn’t bother to stop. I did think that I should have said something like, “You’ll need to keep that scarf up for the rest of your walk to avoid you walking into my exhaled aerosols”.

239316 ▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to Two-Six, 2, #998 of 2060 🔗

Good luck and stay safe….hold on, don’t crucify me, not from Convid but any masketeers you come across on your journey.

239328 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Two-Six, 2, #999 of 2060 🔗

Don’t forget your tin foil beany

239139 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 27, #1000 of 2060 🔗

Has anyone had their tax rebate yet for not receiving NHS treatment and home-schooling their own kids? Nah, didn’t think so.

239168 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Achilles, #1001 of 2060 🔗

Those furloughed have, as have those who haven’t bought things and paid VAT.

You pay tax because of *prior* government spending that has already happened. That makes your income higher than it otherwise would have been.

239144 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 52, #1002 of 2060 🔗

I’m at a virtual conference and the UK minister for data is talking.

He wonders how covid-19 response would have happened if we weren’t in a data driven world.

We wouldn’t have fucking noticed it you mong!

239181 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to steve_w, 8, #1003 of 2060 🔗

So true. This is the Internet pandemic. If it had happened in 1990 we wouldn’t even have known there was a pandemic going on.

239186 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Now More Than Ever, 1, #1004 of 2060 🔗

I still only know 3 people that tested +ve. 1 had flu symptoms, the others no symptoms. as for anyone dying – never heard of anyone – dont know anyone who knows anyone

239189 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to steve_w, 5, #1005 of 2060 🔗

interesting – online questions to minister. asked if we could have suicides etc on the govt coronavirus dashboard. he said it was an ‘interesting question that I cant answer today – but will take it up further’

239155 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 8, #1006 of 2060 🔗

Come on folks, the end game is in sight, we know it’s through herd immunity as do the “authorities” but if they want to peddle the lies that it was through wearing face nappies and social distancing ( Christ,how I bloody hate that stupid expression) and the sheep and collaborators believe them, well that’s their problem.
We know the truth and history will vindicate us.
If the hardline sheep and collaborators social distance( see previous paragraph) and wear face nappies to the end of their miserable “existences” and end up as “laughing stocks”, serves em right.
As it says in the International: “So comrades, come rally and the last fight, let us face”.
PS: I know that the International is the communist anthem but like I’ve said before, this is not left versus right and remain versus leave; us sceptics want our lives back and a return to normality.

239163 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #1007 of 2060 🔗

its almost over – herd immunity achieved

https://covid.joinzoe.com/data

239172 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to steve_w, 3, #1008 of 2060 🔗

YES,YES,YES.

239176 ▶▶ Kev, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #1009 of 2060 🔗

Apparently this Pfizer vaccine will trigger T-Cell production, but this must be different T-cells to what we would produce naturally (herd immunity) because as we are told it doesn’t work that way.

Do they really think we are all stupid?

239188 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Kev, 2, #1010 of 2060 🔗

I suppose their argument would be that the risk is too great to the medically vulnerable to let things run their course.

But yes, they do really think we are all stupid and many people are certainly ignorant and too lazy to think for themselves.

239194 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Kev, 1, #1011 of 2060 🔗

Actually Kev, they do.
But we know better.

239202 ▶▶▶ JudgeMental, replying to Kev, 1, #1012 of 2060 🔗

And your natural immunity will probably be more complete as your immune system is dealing with the whole virus. With the mRNA vaccines your body is only learning to recognise a small part of the viral genome.

239213 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Kev, 5, #1013 of 2060 🔗

Do they really think we are all stupid?

They don’t think that, nor do they need to.

The past 8 months have shown us that they only need to brainwash a certain percentage to achieve their goals. They don’t care that much about the (more intelligent ? 🙂 ) rest of us.

239187 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1014 of 2060 🔗

We are nearing herd immunity and the masses are getting tired of this, it does feel as though the cracks are widening. But we are up against big forces here.

239216 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to DRW, 1, #1015 of 2060 🔗

Yes,but we have to keep up the pressure on the ever increasing “waverers”

239156 Stephanos, 15, #1016 of 2060 🔗

On Sunday, someone, I think it was Cecil B, posted a true horror story about an event at his local war memorial, involving Environmental Health Officers in full PPE and an accompanying police escort.
I have no reason to doubt this story, I can’t imagine Cecil B would make this up.
Anyway, yesterday morning my wife was passing the war memorial at our church and noticed that someone, apparently from the Royal British Legion, was collecting all the wreaths. Note that this was YESTERDAY and armistice day is tomorrow.
I have contacted the Royal British Legion to ask about this, as it is my memory that these wreaths are left for days, even weeks, before before collected.
They are going to contact me about this and I mentioned Cecil B’s experience to them.
I will post their reply here.

239166 fran, 3, #1017 of 2060 🔗

While our NHS is trying to avoid treating too many patients NOW, just in case there might be a rush of covid patients; it is working very hard, planning how our health will be ‘improved’ in the future …. by changing what we eat …. to stop climate change …. here:
http://www.ukhealthalliance.org/all-consuming/

239169 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 10, #1018 of 2060 🔗

Posted on SORUK:

1.2 million people have had covid in the uk,population 69 million
I’m no Einstein but thats less than 2%
People are celebrating a possible, barely tested,vaccine with a 90% chance of stopping you getting the virus but at the risk of adverse reaction and at a cost of billions
So 98% chance of avoiding the virus without the vaccine and 90% chance with the vaccine
AM I MISSING SOMETHING?

239173 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Cheezilla, #1019 of 2060 🔗

far far more than 1.2 million

there were estimated over 2 million symptomatic cases (between age 20 and 69) on the peak day alone

239262 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to steve_w, #1020 of 2060 🔗

Yep. We’re definitely in tge 10s of millions now, probably fast approaching 40-50 million.

239272 ▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to OKUK, 2, #1021 of 2060 🔗

KCL tracker have removed their first wave graph, but if you integrate under the curve, divide by length of symptoms (say 10 days), multiple by 4 to get total cases (rather than symptomatic). you get about 3/4 of the population have been infected. this ties in nicely with the 2nd wave being about 3 times smaller than the first. i expect excess deaths back to normal by the end of this month. lockdown lifted and that should really be the end of it – bar the investigations and hangings

240082 ▶▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to steve_w, #1022 of 2060 🔗

They will find a way to keep the lockdowns coming. There are multiple permutations of the the restrictions and the models can be tweaked to ensure that the proles become totally dependent upon the state.

239391 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to steve_w, #1023 of 2060 🔗

The problem is that the incidence of (real) Covid is just not known.

That buggers any calculation.

239515 ▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to RickH, #1024 of 2060 🔗

just looking at the curves I can say we are almost at herd immunity

239214 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1025 of 2060 🔗

There’s no evidence it stops you getting the virus. It stops you exhibiting symptoms.

90% of the 0.4% of 22,167 people that would otherwise have had symptoms no longer have symptoms. That’s all the vaccine is claiming.

All very straightforward when you do the maths right.

239341 ▶▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Lucan Grey, 1, #1026 of 2060 🔗

So it could, theoretically, make things worse? There will be more infected people without symptoms out and about?

239174 Zak Thelotofem, replying to Zak Thelotofem, 8, #1027 of 2060 🔗

All together now;

“We’ll drink a drink, a drink
To Boris the Pink, the Pink, the Pink
The saviour of the human race
For he subsidised medicinal compound
Most efficacious in every case”!

Hang on a minute, did anyone else notice that Boris was straight out of the blocks at the Update with, ‘the anti-vax argument holds no water’ and ‘in having a vaccination you’re not just protecting yourself, your’re protecting anybody who could get infected by you’. Once again, subtle pressure on us to comply or we will be behaving selfishly.
A safe, effective vaccine will be good news but surely we are entitled to question the provenance and safety of any substance we and our families are being told to have injected in us (especially from an organisation that has already not been entirely upfront with the nation).

239208 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Zak Thelotofem, #1028 of 2060 🔗

‘in having a vaccination you’re not just protecting yourself, your’re protecting anybody who could get infected by you’.

The trouble is that the vaccine trial doesn’t show that. It shows that symptoms are reduced. However if the theory is that the spread is asymptomatic, then the vaccine may not do anything to change the level of spread.

239232 ▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Lucan Grey, 13, #1029 of 2060 🔗

It is unethical to require people to undergo medical procedures to provide benefits to other people. that was one of the fundamental principles the world accepted following on from the crimes of Josef Mengele. One might as well tell people they should give up their cars to protect people they may one day run over. this is the thinking which may one day see us imprisoning people on the basis of crimes they might one day commit.

239278 ▶▶▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 2, #1030 of 2060 🔗

“…may one day see us imprisoning people on the basis of crimes they might one day commit”

Yes! I thought. It’s Minority Report. So Tom Cruise can save us! Until I found this … https://www.scientologynews.org/press-releases/nashville-scientologists-say-prevention-is-the-way-to-contain-the-coronavirus.html

Those hazard suits! Just to hand out leaflets.

So no saviour in the form of Mr Cruise. Shame.

239210 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Zak Thelotofem, 1, #1031 of 2060 🔗

Boris the Pink seems apt, to link with Starmer the Red and Corbyn the Infrared.

Time we had some actual blue shades in our establishments again.

239182 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #1032 of 2060 🔗

There is a speech by Prof. Montanari held outside in an Italian city this year, where he explains that he knew that mankind would be in trouble, when a doctor friend of him told him about ‘herd immunity’ being real and a fact, without knowing much about it.
Because he knew that this ‘herd immunity’ is not based upon any medical evidence, but just a theoretical computer model invented by computer modelers, aka epidimiologists, to justify the vaccination of not just the people at serious risk of a pathogen and disease, but of everyone.
If we want to prevent this from happening, we must first understand thaf, and stop the sofar unquestioned acceptance of this theoretical concept as being a reality and fact: it is neither.
It can become a consequence of the various natural immunities developing over time, but it cannot be actively pursued or a percentage threshold for it being obtained be determined.
The regional discrepancies alone make that impossible, Sweden is a good, current example for that.
When Hancock&co question it, they only question letting natural immunities develop by facing the pathogen to get it, not its existence.
Gatti, Montanari and RKjrs CHD question the existence of herd immunity, but very much advocate the GBD approach of facing the pathogen to let natural immunities develop and vaccinate only those at risk of it, once a truly safe and efficient vaccine was available for them.

239198 ▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to Jay Berger, 3, #1033 of 2060 🔗

London clearly has herd immunity, no amount of number fiddling by those in charge can disprove that.

239238 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Anothersceptic2, 1, #1035 of 2060 🔗

I’ve been posting exactly this for weeks. 🙂

https://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/10/21/latest-news-169/#comment-200107

Actually, A, so have you; I found posts where you’ve been saying it, too.

Great minds…

239200 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #1036 of 2060 🔗

‘herd immunity’ is not based upon any medical evidence, but just a theoretical computer model invented by computer modelers, aka epidimiologists, to justify the vaccination

This assertion makes no sense. A vaccine confers immunity on the vaccinated individual. That individual is immune, regardless of how many other people have been vaccinated or have not been vaccinated. Vaccines are not a public health measure; they are a clinical measure.

239205 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #1037 of 2060 🔗

Rather bizarre straw man-ery. Herd immunity in its broadest sense is not really open to question – it’s just common sense. To deny it you have to doubt the whole notion of infectious diseases and immunity.

I think these are the equivalents on the other side of the coronapanic zealots denying the concept of herd immunity because it gets in the way of what they want to see for ideological or other ulterior motives.

239223 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Mark, #1038 of 2060 🔗

there seems to have been a redesignation of what herd-immunity means. they claim it means we are all immune and so the virus disappears but this was never what it meant

I assume that in a couple of months covid-19 will just be coronavirus number 5. deadly in a few old people (like the other coronaviruses) – a bit of a cold for everyone else. no long term immunity. why would your immune system bother for something so mild?

239253 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to steve_w, 2, #1039 of 2060 🔗

Yes, that’s the straw man I was referring to.

I assume that in a couple of months covid-19 will just be coronavirus number 5. deadly in a few old people (like the other coronaviruses) – a bit of a cold for everyone else

That’s pretty much what I’ve been expecting, for several months now, with increasing confidence.

I wish I could say the same for any belief I might have in our rulers and the panickers pushing them not seriously messing up our lives forever…

239265 ▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Mark, #1040 of 2060 🔗

I have every confidence the truth will out. plenty of stupid ideas from the past are rightly mocked nowadays. lockdown is just another one. won’t be the last either.

239274 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to steve_w, 1, #1041 of 2060 🔗

History is written by the winners though.

239283 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to DRW, -1, #1042 of 2060 🔗

Actually, it is written by historians.

239292 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Steve Hayes, #1043 of 2060 🔗

and covid deaths are time limited. the horrors of lockdown will be coming for a generation. it can only go our way

239523 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to steve_w, 1, #1044 of 2060 🔗

When future historians look back on this, they will see no evidence of a serious public health problem; and a collective madness that resulted in an unprecedented act of self harm in the name of the non-problem. It will generate controversies that will keep Phd students busy for many decades.

239318 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Steve Hayes, -1, #1045 of 2060 🔗

Who well into my lifetime have largely been white, male, Western academics, comfortably embedded in their own society. The Whig view of History.

239514 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Sylvie, 1, #1046 of 2060 🔗

You seem to be unaware of the many Indian, Chinese, Vietnamese and other historians, not to mention all the women historians. And I have absolutely no idea why you have tagged on: “The Whig view of History” which is an approach much deprecated by historians as ahistorical.

239284 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to DRW, 1, #1047 of 2060 🔗

and I’m sure we will win. there was plenty of mass manipulation of data to scare us into complying. lots of big companies keeping quiet for fear of being labelled granny killers. when the mood changes to this was overblown and lockdowns cause more harm than good – the private prosecutions will start flying. I think they will want to prove malfeasance rather than honest mistake as better route to compan

239441 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to steve_w, #1048 of 2060 🔗

I admire your optimism and recognise recent good news, but we are up against big forces.

239296 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Mark, #1049 of 2060 🔗

I think he is probably taking aim at the SIR modelling done by epidemiologists. Not the general concept.

239385 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Jay Berger, #1050 of 2060 🔗

If humans hadn’t had an immune system we would have been wiped out by now.

239211 calchas, replying to calchas, 12, #1051 of 2060 🔗

“A new polio outbreak in Sudan has been linked to the oral polio vaccine that uses a weakened form of the virus.
News of the outbreak comes a week after the World Health Organization (WHO) announced that wild polio had been eradicated in Africa.
The WHO linked the cases to a strain of the virus that had been noted circulating in Chad last year and warned that the risk of spread to other parts of the Horn of Africa was high.
In a statement on the new cases, the WHO said two children in Sudan, one from South Darfur state and the other from Gadarif state, close to the border with Ethiopia and Eritrea, were paralysed in March and April. Both had been recently vaccinated against polio.”

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/sep/02/vaccine-derived-polio-spreads-in-africa-after-defeat-of-wild-virus

This is a vaccine that went through a process of testing and certification that lasted years.

239273 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to calchas, #1052 of 2060 🔗

The limits of live virus polio vaccines have been known for years. It is no longer used in most of the rest of the world.

Using that example is the same as saying “well they weren’t wearing a mask, so that’s why they caught the virus”.

What stops the use of OPV and IPV in tandem is one of cost alone. See.

https://www.virology.ws/2015/09/10/why-do-we-still-use-sabin-poliovirus-vaccine/

239224 calchas, replying to calchas, 8, #1053 of 2060 🔗

THe vaccine manufacturer will be indemnified against all possible costs from vaccine injury, while pocketing the profits from sales.

Surely, since they have guaranteed customers and guaranteed prices producing guaranteed profits, it should be possible for the vaccine manufacturer to buy liability insurance on the free market for the vaccine.

This would give us a much better idea of risk, because in this sitaution the insurer would have a commercial interest in assessing the risk as accurately as possible.

239256 ▶▶ Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, replying to calchas, 6, #1054 of 2060 🔗

Not going to happen. They know any vaccine will injure a certain percentage of the population which is why they were indemnified back in 1986 (in the US). Read any vaccine package insert for the list of potential side effects. But it gets even better for them — after vaccines trigger chronic illnesses like autoimmune disorders, they have customers for life needing their medications. It’s the ultimate win-win.

239414 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, 1, #1055 of 2060 🔗

Agreed Lisa,

Still theoretically it must be a priceable risk.

The important point for me is that no commercial insurer is willing to accept those liabilities.

239286 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to calchas, 1, #1056 of 2060 🔗

They are indemnified yes. But you can sue the tax payer. So you’ll all be paying for this whether you take the shot or not

239239 mhcp, 9, #1057 of 2060 🔗

There’s a rule of life that says often the solution of your continued problems is to do the exact opposite.

I guess the solution to chasing a phantom epidemic is to stop chasing it and wasting all your money on it.

Should we call Boris, Ahab now?

And you know what happened to the ship in the end.

239240 Leemc23, replying to Leemc23, 5, #1058 of 2060 🔗

Is Mike Yeadon formally of Pfizer ? Has he commented ?

239243 ▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to Leemc23, 1, #1059 of 2060 🔗

He’s very active on his twitter account, seems to post multiple times a day.

239241 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #1060 of 2060 🔗

Chronicle Live: Matt Hancock runs away from Good Morning Britain reporter as he continues to boycott show.
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/tv/matt-hancock-chased-gmb-reporter-19252842

239251 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #1061 of 2060 🔗

i thought Hancock was a total tosser with no judgement whatsoever . I am now proved wrong . Avoiding GMB shows good judgement

239244 nickbowes, replying to nickbowes, 5, #1062 of 2060 🔗

I see they are rolling out mass testing (you guessed it again, it`s that certain magic number) over 66 new areas (in England) – just ignore the idiots and that uber-prick Hancock will die tragically soon.

239247 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to nickbowes, 4, #1063 of 2060 🔗

Given the barnstorming success in Liverpool it only makes sense!

239250 ▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to nickbowes, 6, #1064 of 2060 🔗

I wouldn’t go for a test ever.

239252 Kev, replying to Kev, 8, #1065 of 2060 🔗

NHS ready to give vaccine from 1 December – Hancock

Would he be so cavalier with an untested vaccine if everyone presented him personally with an affidavit for unlimited liabilty?

239270 ▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to Kev, 8, #1066 of 2060 🔗

They quietly changed law a few months ago to remove any liability. They gave the public about a week to object against it.

239334 ▶▶▶ Kev, replying to Anothersceptic2, #1067 of 2060 🔗

I know, I’m not talking about the Big Pharma companies, I mean to Hancock personally. If I was forced against my will to be vaccinated he would be held personally responsible for any damage caused, including death.

He’s would be made to account for the vaccines safety.

He could never agree to it, he would not be able to lawfully refute it, otherwise he’s declaring it is potentially unsafe.

239376 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Anothersceptic2, 3, #1068 of 2060 🔗

Yes. You need to be pretty dozy not to make the connections between :

  • revisions to drug testing framework
  • pre-payment for imagined vaccines
  • waver of liability for vaccine manufacturers
  • politicians and government advisors with connections to the pharmaceutical industry.

What? It’s all above board?

If you say so….. now, I’ve got this Nigerian friend who needs £5000 to allow him to get hold of about £2m. You can have a share if you lend him £500 ….

239289 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Kev, 2, #1069 of 2060 🔗

There will be plenty of volunteers, so you don’t need to worry.

One volunteer is worth ten pressed men.

239340 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Kev, 3, #1070 of 2060 🔗

I can be “ready” for a Mars trip by next week, doesn’t mean it’s actually happening.

239268 Mutineer, replying to Mutineer, 27, #1071 of 2060 🔗

A word of warning about Pfizer. Many years ago I was asked to go on a trial of a Pfizer drug being done by my pain specialist. The drug made me very ill and also gave me hallucinations. My pain specialist upped the dose. I started projectile vomiting and became so terribly nauseous that I had to be admitted to hospital. My pain specialist flatly refused to believe it was the drug and put massive pressure on me to stay on the trial as it would ‘mess up the findings’. I saw a gastroenterologist who said that my illness was NOT gastroenteritis as the pain consultant suggested. I was in hospital on a drip for nearly 2 weeks and stopped the drug. I recovered. Even then, the pain consultant (obviously paid by Pfizer) told me to stay on the drug as ‘it suited me so well’, I refused and no doubt none of my side effects were put down to the drug and I was probably counted as a ‘drop out’ from the trial. Amazingly, only about 1 in 7 GP’s ever reports a drug side effect. If you would even consider taking a vaccine I suggest you look at the violations paid out by pharma companies and they don’t even include vaccine damage as the Govt (us, the taxpayer) pay those for them. They pay out billions in violations for fraud, off label sales, environmental issues etc and because their profits are massive, it’s just small change to them. I would go further and say the pharma companies are behind this massive takeover of our liberty and freedom. We are just here to make money for them from the cradle to the grave. I would have to be dragged out of my house and held down to have one of their ‘targeted’ vaccines.

239299 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Mutineer, 12, #1072 of 2060 🔗

I’m very sorry, but not surprised, to read this. I think the majority of people don’t take side-effects seriously. They believe that the stuff in the tiny print listed on the inserts in packs of pills won’t apply to them (that’s if they read them at all). Sadly, they do and, as you point out, with devastating effects.

Many years ago I had injections for allergies. Completely mucked my health up – unfortunately, I did not make the connection until years later. And my mother took myriad drugs that completely decimated her health (even the paramedic who I spoke to after her death was staggered to be told what combinations of drugs she was on).

I will not be taking up the offer of their wretched vaccine.

239329 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Mutineer, 5, #1073 of 2060 🔗

Repost of yesterday’s violation tracker link for Pfizer .

239401 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Victoria, 4, #1075 of 2060 🔗

I wonder if articles like this will be scrubbed from the internet (another service Serco offer) now we are going to become enemies of the state if we dare to question big pharma or anyone working in the medical profession.

239377 ▶▶ MsStroppster, replying to Mutineer, 4, #1076 of 2060 🔗

Quote on p58 of this ebook from worlddoctorsalliance.com:

https://online.anyflip.com/inblw/ufbs/mobile/index.html

“Vaccines are unavoidably unsafe” – US Supreme Court, March 2011

239418 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to MsStroppster, 1, #1077 of 2060 🔗

That is a very good ebook – first time I have seen it. I just need to persuade a few people to look at it!

239689 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Mutineer, #1078 of 2060 🔗

well put. I’m sorry you went through that and had a corrupt Dr to boot. Did you report it yourself through the ‘yellow card scheme’? https://yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/

239269 mjr, 3, #1079 of 2060 🔗

just listened to The Now Show from last Friday. Unusually for BBC comedy they actually had a comedian on who is not the usual unfunny lefty Johnny Smugface type.
Geoff Norcott. excellent sceptic piece (starting at 19.45 so you can avoid the rest)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000p0tn

239280 Dylan Jones, replying to Dylan Jones, 6, #1080 of 2060 🔗

So its very successful in reducing symptoms but doesn’t stop contagion. Does it reduce asymptoms? How would we know?
When they say “effective” I suspect they mean effective in generating antibodies.
Only problem – all these antibodies will then proceed to direct the immune system to attack all the human cells that have expressed covid antigens due to genetic alteration.
Cytokine storm ensues.
For those are over 90, with terminal cancer, clogged up coronary arteries, and already dead, the virus is absolutely lethal.
So, lets vaccinate all the children and ensure autoimmune disease as the next plague.

239294 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Dylan Jones, 3, #1081 of 2060 🔗

I wonder if they have tested it on people with a history of autoimmune disorder to make sure it is safe for them

239305 ▶▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Julian, #1082 of 2060 🔗

Those people tend not to take vaccines. Hence why we need to get to herd immunity – to protect them with a shield from the herd.

239465 ▶▶▶▶ Dylan Jones, replying to Lucan Grey, 3, #1083 of 2060 🔗

We need herd immunity from herd mentality.

239311 ▶▶▶ vargas99, replying to Julian, 2, #1084 of 2060 🔗

No they haven’t, immunosuppressed patients were /are specifically excluded form the trial

239399 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to vargas99, 1, #1085 of 2060 🔗

I’m not an expert but generally people with autoimmune disorders have OVERactive immune systems, not suppressed ones. Those who have an active condition are usually on immunosuppressant medication though.

239419 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, replying to Julian, 2, #1086 of 2060 🔗

Exactly. They’re on meds to suppress an overactive immune system, hence they are less able to mount an effective immune response to viruses and the like. They would absolutely be excluded from any vaccine trial and would likely be given a pass on taking any new vaccine.

239452 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, 2, #1087 of 2060 🔗

MS, Diabetes and Rheumatoid Arthritis are three very common autoimmune disorders.

Given how many elderly people suffer from Diabetes and/or RA, I imagine a lot of GPs would be loathe to give this vaccine to a lot of their patients, as it could kill them.

239502 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ peyrole, replying to Ceriain, 2, #1088 of 2060 🔗

Yes the very people most at risk from covid. The UK government is planning to give the ‘at risk’ group the vaccine first. It will probably result in greater numbers of deaths than the virus.

239564 ▶▶▶▶▶ helen, replying to Julian, #1089 of 2060 🔗

Yes, and recommend to come off IS meds temporarily if they catch an infection.

239473 ▶▶▶ Dylan Jones, replying to Julian, 1, #1090 of 2060 🔗

I wonder how many people will develop autoimmune disorder from having it tested on them.

239683 ▶▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Dylan Jones, 1, #1091 of 2060 🔗

my thoughts exactly

239297 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Dylan Jones, 2, #1092 of 2060 🔗

It’s effective at reducing symptoms in 90% of the 0.4% of people who would otherwise have symptoms. And that’s it.

239313 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Dylan Jones, #1093 of 2060 🔗

Lethal for those already dead … that’s a new one.

239475 ▶▶▶ Dylan Jones, replying to mattghg, #1094 of 2060 🔗

It’s an old one.

239314 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Dylan Jones, 1, #1095 of 2060 🔗

“already dead”

I don’t think the already dead need worry about taking the vaccine. 😉

Only kidding, I knew what you meant. 🙂

239366 ▶▶▶ Kev, replying to Ceriain, 8, #1096 of 2060 🔗

The ‘already dead’ are eligible to vote in a US election apparently.

239453 ▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Kev, 1, #1097 of 2060 🔗

Good point! 😉

239480 ▶▶▶▶ Dylan Jones, replying to Kev, 2, #1098 of 2060 🔗

They are also eligible to be prematurely nominated President as well apparently.

239304 Stuart, 1, #1099 of 2060 🔗

Crashout or Covid or both the writing is on the wall and it spells out sauve qui peut.

And no, it’s not women and children first.

239308 JudgeMental, replying to JudgeMental, 3, #1100 of 2060 🔗

I find these new genetic vaccines quite fascinating. Not that I want to take one, but the technology is impressive. Does anyone know how this new Pfizer one gets into your cells. I understand the Oxford one as it uses an Adenovirus as the delivery method. All I can find about the Pfizer one is the mRNA is enclosed in a lipid nanoparticle membrane. How does this then get into the cells, I thought they have some kind of protection?

239324 ▶▶ IanE, replying to JudgeMental, 4, #1101 of 2060 🔗

Quite – I seriously wonder what crud, genetic or otherwise, that will also be delivered.

239346 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to JudgeMental, 2, #1102 of 2060 🔗

This may be a new patented delivery mechanism, but they use the same tricks as viruses. Essentially these vaccines are synthetic viruses at least as far as the unlocking system is concerned.

Self-amplifying mRNA can be derived from the engineered genomes of Sindbis virus, Semliki Forest virus, Kunjin virus, among others

comment image

See https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2019.00594/full

239310 richard riewer, 1, #1103 of 2060 🔗

Listen to Mark Windows ‘Your Indoctrinationa and Education, then continue with Indoctrination as Education, Extra. Learning by rote and repetition. Like Public Health university courses.

239323 Jonny S., replying to Jonny S., 23, #1104 of 2060 🔗

Just been out walking the dog and well fellow Scepticers I feel lucky to be back safe in front of the fire. Up ahead a lady was struggling with her dog. As I got close she asked me if I knew how best to attach a harness onto her little pug. No I said but I’ll hold her for you if you like. We then spent a few minutes in close contact as she rearranged the dog’s restraint. When happy with the fit she thanked me and walked off. As we waved our goodbyes I breathed a sigh of relief that I had survived this bout of perfectly ordinary human contact.
Walking back home my mind wandered to what ordinary dangers may await me tomorrow.
A chance meeting with the milkman perhapse. Meeting the neighbour on the doorstep, or god forbid walking past the bustop as the door of the bus opens and a solitary commuter alights.
Don’t worry dear reader, if I do survive any perfectly ordinary ocurrences you will be the first to know.

Jonny.

239381 ▶▶ Al T, replying to Jonny S., 15, #1105 of 2060 🔗

I had a similar close call. Maskless in the supermarket, I was approached by a maskless elderly lady who asked me to get a bottle down from a high shelf because ‘you’re nice and tall darling ‘.

Having taken my life in my hands by doing so, we exchanged brief pleasantries while people with masks made a great show of looking daggers at us and going round us in an exaggerated sweep of distance.

FFS!

239394 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Smith, replying to Al T, #1106 of 2060 🔗

They’ll come in with the pitchforks next…

239326 Jonathan Smith, replying to Jonathan Smith, 6, #1107 of 2060 🔗

When you open up a box of drugs, or doses of vaccine, there is a leaflet which details the desired effects and the unwanted effects. The unwanted effects often run into many tens of possibilities and will be ranked according to their frequency and seriousness. I’ve never come across a compound where this section is blank…. The mainstream media are assuring us that the Pfizer vaccine efficacy and safety and are not being challenged on this very obvious point.

239351 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Jonathan Smith, 3, #1108 of 2060 🔗

A bit like the Lockdown medicine. Absolutely no contra-indications, evidently. Magic!

239353 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Jonathan Smith, 2, #1109 of 2060 🔗

While stressing that I do not want the vaccine and that I do not understand how long-term safety could possibly be presumed at this point, I would argue the presence of side-effects would not mean that any vaccine or medication was not considered to be ‘safe’. Perhaps we need to be mindful of the risk of falling into the trap that paralyses so many lockdownistas – nothing in life is 100% safe?

239392 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Smith, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #1110 of 2060 🔗

Yes I agree with you. Everything on a risk/benefit analysis … otherwise things like chemo wouldn’t get off the ground.

My question was more why do journalists even those ignorant of the science seem not to give even the mildest pushback from their base of common knowledge? The overwhelmingly dominant narrative is unidirectional.

239327 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 12, #1111 of 2060 🔗

One of the things I find troubling about the responses to the coronavirus is the way the elite keep messing with the meanings of words. The change of the meaning of the word case is an obvious example. I see the present messing with the meaning of the word vaccine is even more troubling. A vaccine provides the vaccinated individual with immunity. This immunity exists regardless of how many other people are vaccinated or not. Vaccination is a clinical treatment; it is not a public health measure. Yet the elite are busily messing with the word vaccine, pretending it is a public health measure and that it works, not by making the individual immune, but via the population being vaccinated, and it is therefore a moral duty for the individual to be vaccinated to protect everyone else.

As Humpty Dumpty told Alice, when words mean whatever someone wants their motive is power and control.

239333 ▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #1112 of 2060 🔗

some people will be immune already.

239343 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Anothersceptic2, #1113 of 2060 🔗

Yes. And everyone knows this because it would be impossible to create a vaccine if it were not so.

239354 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #1114 of 2060 🔗

It’s the essence of propaganda messaging.

239356 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #1115 of 2060 🔗

Doubleplus ungood isn’t it.

239486 ▶▶ peyrole, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #1116 of 2060 🔗

A vaccine stimulates the immune system to create anti-bodies. The hype is that covid vaccines create a stronger immune system response than say T-cell memory. So if enough people get the anti-bodies at the same time you can reach that term that until then we are not allowed to utter….herd immunity. Hence the requirement for enough people to be vaccinated to create this situation.
And as someone else already calculated across the UK this might save about 168 lives compared to letting the virus go its natural way across the population and everyone got natural immunity. But as you say, they don’t get to ‘play God’ under that scenario.

239609 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Steve Hayes, #1117 of 2060 🔗

It isn’t the elite that’s messing with semantics, it’s the Behavioural Insights Team. The elite just read from the script.

239339 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 17, #1118 of 2060 🔗

Off-topic but a friend in the US has said that it has just been announced Trump has won Pennsylvania.

Waiting confirmation independently though.

239350 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1119 of 2060 🔗

Interesting, I had heard he’s already gotten a Supreme Court intervention.

239368 ▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to Awkward Git, #1120 of 2060 🔗

how many votes is that state worth?

239379 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Smith, replying to Anothersceptic2, 1, #1121 of 2060 🔗

20 Electoral College Votes

239382 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Anothersceptic2, 3, #1122 of 2060 🔗

20, I believe. As Shakespeare wrote (was it 12th night?), “Come kiss me now, sweet and twenty, Youth’s a stuff does not endure.”

239375 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1123 of 2060 🔗

Oh boy, oh boy, that would REALLY make the BBC’s day! [Not: but it WOULD really make mine!!]

239398 ▶▶ JudgeMental, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #1124 of 2060 🔗

Heard the same thing from my wife who follows a Japanese source who is supposed to have a good track record. No idea how reliable this is.

239670 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to JudgeMental, #1125 of 2060 🔗

okusan wa nihonjin desu ka? sono Japanese source no link oshiete kuremasen ka?

239402 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #1126 of 2060 🔗

Hallelujah!

239420 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1127 of 2060 🔗

The odds are continuing to tick in for Trump from this morning. Any further update?

239583 ▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1128 of 2060 🔗

Judicial Watch is always worth a look. Here’s some interesting snippets:
“On Election Day, President Trump had the votes to win the presidency. These vote totals were changed because of unprecedented and extraordinary counting after Election Day.
The state legislatures of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Arizona have independent constitutional authority to resolve presidential election disputes…”
https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-releases/statement-presidential-election/

239634 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, #1130 of 2060 🔗

Will try and find out a but more.

239832 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1131 of 2060 🔗

I would love it to be true but I suspect what this is that some media outlet was supposed to have declared that it was still being contested when previously they had declared it for Biden. This was incorrect as the station in question never called it for Biden in the first place. Trump winning now would be even better than him winning on election day (week?) as it would dismay everyone who hates him but can’t even explain why (they’ve been brainwashed by the media).

239342 nickbowes, replying to nickbowes, #1132 of 2060 🔗

The prospect of Reform UK gets more delicious every day esp with articles like this one:-

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/10/covid-lockdown-nigel-farage-
brexit-national-panic

239355 ▶▶ IanE, replying to nickbowes, 3, #1133 of 2060 🔗

A bit got lost from the link: not difficult to type in, but to save a bit of work, here it is –

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/10/covid-lockdown-nigel-farage-brexit-national-panic

{Mind you, it is typical GroanAid stuff.}

239361 ▶▶▶ nickbowes, replying to IanE, 1, #1134 of 2060 🔗

Thanks Ian

239386 ▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to IanE, 1, #1135 of 2060 🔗

Every European country’s pandemic preparedness plan has been “comprehensively debunked”, apparently.

239488 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Victoria, 4, #1137 of 2060 🔗

Whether you like Nigel, or not, the way he rattles the Guardian writers’ cage is awesome. 😉

239345 Jonathan Smith, replying to Jonathan Smith, 8, #1138 of 2060 🔗

Anyone remember the Tamiflu debacle?… millions of doses ordered up and administered… turned out to be a crock…

239360 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Jonathan Smith, 3, #1139 of 2060 🔗

Carl Heneghan was the man then too: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-26954482 .

239482 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to mattghg, 3, #1140 of 2060 🔗

Funny the difference actual evidence makes, isn’t it? Heneghan and Jefferson work with facts; that’s what really makes them worth listening to.

“The system that exists for producing evidence on drugs is so flawed and open to misuse that the public has been misled.”

Deja vu, anyone?

The Department of Health, which took the lead for the UK, said Britain was recognised as “ one of the best prepared countries in the world for a potential flu pandemic ” and “our stockpile of antivirals is a key part of this.”

FFS! Really?

239348 Gladiatrix, replying to Gladiatrix, 2, #1141 of 2060 🔗

Does anyone know what has become of Simon Dolan’s appeal? Has he even been given a judgement date?

239349 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Gladiatrix, 3, #1142 of 2060 🔗

No – I was expecting judgement by now too, thought it was due last week.

239357 godowneasy, replying to godowneasy, 18, #1143 of 2060 🔗

Have I woken in an alternative reality? Hancock just said of the vaccine:

” if it was approved, the NHS had been told to be ready from 1 December to “inject hope into millions of arms this winter”.

Maybe MPs should be first in line or just stick it up their arses.

239362 ▶▶ IanE, replying to godowneasy, 6, #1144 of 2060 🔗

More likely, “inject harms into millions of woke this winter”.

239365 ▶▶ DRW, replying to godowneasy, 6, #1145 of 2060 🔗

Hope? Just proves it’s mainly a placebo.

239433 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to godowneasy, 3, #1146 of 2060 🔗

You misheard he said dope not hope

239358 Eddy, replying to Eddy, 8, #1147 of 2060 🔗

It is very uncommon for people to experience life-changing side effects from vaccines.

It is even more uncommon for healthy people to die of the covaids

239665 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Eddy, -1, #1148 of 2060 🔗

I disagree with that. Toxic vaccines cause mild vaccine injuries, serious vaccine injuries and sometimes death. Have you not noticed autism? allergies? etc etc
have you read widely on the topic? thought critically? hopefully you haven’t just been brainwashed into believing the mainstream big pHARMa narrative?

239363 Janice21, replying to Janice21, 4, #1149 of 2060 🔗

Do you think all the mask rubbish will be done away with once this vaccine is rolled out to those wishing to take it?

239372 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Janice21, 5, #1150 of 2060 🔗

It should do, because, of course, anybody worried about “symptoms” from catching it can just go and get their dose.

239388 ▶▶▶ Janice21, replying to Lucan Grey, 6, #1151 of 2060 🔗

I hope so. If that will be the case, then bring on the vaccine ASAP so those dirty face things can be gone forever!

239387 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Janice21, 10, #1152 of 2060 🔗

Of course not. The masks are a crucial compliance tool

239408 ▶▶▶ Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 7, #1153 of 2060 🔗

And if masks can stop even one person from catching the common cold, shouldn’t we wear them forever???

239413 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Janice21, 9, #1154 of 2060 🔗

Nope

239421 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Janice21, 12, #1155 of 2060 🔗

I fear not. The only hope I have for the end of masking is irrefutable evidence that they’re actually harmful, which even our leaders can’t ignore. I’m clinging onto the hope that the Danish mask study RCT might be that evidence, if it ever sees the light of day…

239432 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to mattghg, 1, #1156 of 2060 🔗

Looks like we will all have been vaccinated before that study even gets released.

239443 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Janice21, #1157 of 2060 🔗
239364 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 32, #1158 of 2060 🔗

The estimated primary completion date for the Pfizer vaccine is Jun 13 2021, and estimated study completion date is Dec 11 2022, more than 2 years away. And yet Matt Hancock says that it’s ready to be injected in a matter of weeks?

 Something doesn’t add up here. Either they’re lying and yesterday’s announcement was political posturing, or the British public are about to participate in a deeply unethical Stage 3 trial en masse.

239367 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Poppy, 5, #1159 of 2060 🔗

Only the idiots, though: there’s always a silver lining if you look hard enough!

239424 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Poppy, 1, #1160 of 2060 🔗

It seems likely that at least this vaccine will be made available before the end of the trial. It would be very interesting (if not crucial) to know what assessments are still to be made before that end date. It might be around the longevity of the protection (I use the term generously) afforded by the vaccine, in which case they wouldn’t worry about rolling it out in the short term.

239426 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Poppy, 7, #1161 of 2060 🔗

My theory is it’s not a new vaccine. How else can they develop it within months of a new virus being identified and have 40 million doses ready by July before the trial has barely started? That’s mass production within 6 months of the virus hitting Europe. I think it’s just a slightly reworked flu vaccine.

239435 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Poppy, 8, #1162 of 2060 🔗

The vaccine is what knits the whole shit-show together. There are so many fingers in the Pharmaceutical Industry pie and also up to their necks in perpetrating the dodgy data scam.

You’d have to be thick not to make a connection.

239370 Jonathan Smith, 3, #1163 of 2060 🔗
239378 Eddy, replying to Eddy, 7, #1164 of 2060 🔗

Latest propaganda:

Those who do not take the jabadabadoo are very selfish people.

239383 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to Eddy, 4, #1165 of 2060 🔗

Indeed. I was only on faceache for about a minute last night after seeing all the nonsense about that.

239389 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Eddy, 3, #1166 of 2060 🔗

Surely the reverse; after all, it would only be themselves put at risk!

239405 ▶▶ Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, replying to Eddy, 8, #1167 of 2060 🔗

Yeah, we’re the same sociopaths that won’t wear a mask. I’m a proud member of the club.

239412 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Eddy, 6, #1168 of 2060 🔗

Its interesting to look at the government department they call the Nudge Unit, and the methods they use to ‘persuade’ the gullible

239390 BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #1169 of 2060 🔗
239396 ▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #1170 of 2060 🔗

kinda sounds similar to the travel cards they try and flog you when you get travel money

239449 ▶▶ leggy, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #1171 of 2060 🔗

Well, Ajay S. Banga, President and Chief Executive Officer, Mastercard, USA does attend Davos.

239581 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #1172 of 2060 🔗

Have you read the privacy notice?

239393 Chicot, replying to Chicot, 15, #1173 of 2060 🔗

If this vaccine would be an end to this wretched business then I would wholeheartedly welcome it. Let the stupid, gullible masses act as guinea pigs and take it, let everyone go back to normal and we can all forget we ever heard of “Covid”. Sadly, we know that will not be the case. They have already primed us to accept that the protection offered by the vaccine will be temporary and that we will need regular “boosters”. This will inevitably lead to health passports where people who are not “up to date” will be forbidden from much of normal life. This is no solution at all but another step towards a hideous dystopian future.

239403 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Chicot, 6, #1174 of 2060 🔗

If it does not confer immunity, it is not a vaccine. A vaccine confers immunity upon the vaccinated individual.

239404 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Chicot, 2, #1175 of 2060 🔗

Not unlike the flu jab which people queue up for every year. The ID sounds as if it will be used for travel etc.

239417 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Chicot, 6, #1176 of 2060 🔗

Not only that, but they’ll never give up on face coverings ever.

239532 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Chicot, 5, #1177 of 2060 🔗

Unfortunately I think this vaccine will become pseudo compulsory e.g. it will become a condition of continuing residency at a care home that you are vaccinated, schools and universities may may make it a condition that all students are vaccinated, it might even become a condition of carriage on main line trains that you have been vaccinated. It will become hard to operate in main stream society if you are not vaccinated.

239406 Jonathan Smith, replying to Jonathan Smith, 22, #1178 of 2060 🔗

BBC/ITN/Sky reporting the possible/maybe/might be vaccine as the “first good news” of the pandemic. Pity they forgot to mention that a) most of those infected are symptom free b) a small proportion have mild symptoms but go on as before c) a very small number get severely ill and d) a small number of that small number die e) the kids are safest of all… That all seems like good news to me.

239410 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Jonathan Smith, 3, #1179 of 2060 🔗

Yes, following the script they were handed this week for the very obvious vaccine narrative…

239416 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Jonathan Smith, 3, #1180 of 2060 🔗

For some reason they’re only interested in good news if it’s specifically the result of human technology. It appears to be us against nature.

239409 Alan P, replying to Alan P, 6, #1181 of 2060 🔗

I’d like to ask people’s opinions on why it seems that most medically qualified voices of dissent and scepticism are all from retired doctors and clinicians. I’ve yet to hear any alternative comments about all the COVID measures from any of those currently employed in hospitals or related medical type industry.

Does that mean that no one is allowed to proffer any opinion that contradicts the mainstream narrative?

239411 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Alan P, 5, #1182 of 2060 🔗

Mortgages, pensions, etc

239423 ▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to Alan P, 9, #1183 of 2060 🔗

Some people such as Mike Yeadon have stated that doctor friends have been threatened with being struck off if they go public about the lies.

239437 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Anothersceptic2, #1184 of 2060 🔗

Do they know where the threats originate?

239451 ▶▶▶▶ DocRC, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #1185 of 2060 🔗

I don’t think they can be “struck off” (by the GMC) but they can lose their jobs or be subject to suspension and investigation by the management

239458 ▶▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to DocRC, 2, #1186 of 2060 🔗

I recall one hospital consultant who was suspended by the GMC early on because he questioned the narrative – can’t recall his name.

239504 ▶▶▶ kenadams, replying to Anothersceptic2, 4, #1187 of 2060 🔗

This isn’t a good enough excuse anymore. If thousands of cancer doctors all got together and released a joint statement, there’s no way they could be stopped or reprimanded. And it is their moral duty to do so, rather than watch thousands of cancer patients die due to lockdown.

239427 ▶▶ DocRC, replying to Alan P, 14, #1189 of 2060 🔗

Although I no longer work in General Practice, I still work in sports medicine. All the other Doctors I work with who are still in NHS jobs are sceptical to some degree. They are no doubt worried that if they put their heads above the parapet they could get shot. There are some current GPs on here who post sceptical comments; GPs are self employed and contract their services to the NHS whereas hospital Doctors are NHS employees and can get in to trouble if they don’t toe the line.

239450 ▶▶ peyrole, replying to Alan P, 3, #1190 of 2060 🔗

There have been NDAs going around.

239540 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Alan P, 8, #1191 of 2060 🔗

Malcolm Kendrick is still a practising GP. Dissenting GPs who are partners or owners of their practice have nothing to fear. If someone is employed then they are less likely to dissent despite whistleblower protection as there’s a suspicion that they won’t be protected.

239415 garry a, replying to garry a, 12, #1192 of 2060 🔗

Am I interpreting the vaccine results correctly: Circa 43,000 people exposed to the virus, 50% with vaccine, 50% with placebo. Of those with the placebo circa 0.4% went on to develop any symptoms. Doesn’t this speak to the nonsense of this – you expose 21,500 people to a killer virus with no more than a placebo and 99.4% didn’t even get a sniffle.

239431 ▶▶ Alan P, replying to garry a, 7, #1193 of 2060 🔗

Good point! Only thing I’d add is that the trials are all under 55 years old. Would it be the same on 60, 70, 80 year olds?

239447 ▶▶▶ peyrole, replying to Alan P, 1, #1194 of 2060 🔗

We also don’t know if all those infected weren’t from the same village in Brazil, there just is no info to really assess this.

239477 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Alan P, 1, #1195 of 2060 🔗

Considering that under 55s do not need the vaccine except for extreme edge cases, why test on those and not that the over 60s? In fact, considering that age is merely a correlation and its actually certain health conditions that make people susceptible why not trial on those?

This looks half-arsed and as usual the media display astonishing levels of disinterest.

239434 ▶▶ Kev, replying to garry a, 4, #1196 of 2060 🔗

Ah but was this before or after the 10PM curfew?

239436 ▶▶ DocRC, replying to garry a, 6, #1197 of 2060 🔗

The problem is there is so little SARS-CoV-2 around that very few of the vaccine or placebo group will have been exposed to it! They didn’t expose all the participants in the trial to live virus as this would be unethical. It would, however make sense if the figures show that the vaccine is effective to do a further trial where they expose the vaccinated people to the live virus.

239790 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to DocRC, #1198 of 2060 🔗

I thought they were doing challenge trials with this terribly dangerous virus.

239530 ▶▶ William Hand, replying to garry a, 1, #1199 of 2060 🔗

They weren’t all exposed to the virus. It was not a challenge trial.

239593 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Victoria, #1201 of 2060 🔗

One ‘Med’ student has replied to say mortality is much more like 6% so it would save 2.5M lives – give me strength.

239428 Darryl, replying to Darryl, 5, #1202 of 2060 🔗

I know the French people have been completely subdued by the government and their Covid propaganda this year. But, will they stand for this? from the Telegraph –

France should cancel Christmas and New Year to avoid third wave says Paris hospital chief

239560 ▶▶ annie, replying to Darryl, 3, #1203 of 2060 🔗

Could prove awkward if they decide not to have a new year.
But there are precedents.In 1792, the Revolutionary government abolished the past altogether and started afresh with Year 1 of the Republic.This time, they can start with Year 1 of the Covid Tyranny.

239430 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 16, #1204 of 2060 🔗

It’s OK everyone. Nadine Dorries MP, says there is absolutely no problem re mental health and suicide.

https://mobile.twitter.com/simondolan/status/1325845200716042242

239440 ▶▶ Dame Lynet, replying to Victoria, 5, #1205 of 2060 🔗

But we can ignore the tsunami of irresponsible narrative around the virus. Ok, Nadine.

239444 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Victoria, 5, #1206 of 2060 🔗

Doris really is a platinum-plated idiot. But consistently so.

239456 ▶▶ Tiberius, replying to Victoria, 3, #1207 of 2060 🔗

Dorries has been taking lessons in heartlessness from Handcock.

239457 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Victoria, 8, #1208 of 2060 🔗

Why won’t they release the figures then? All we’ve seen is a tweet from London Ambulance Service about an exponential rise in suicide attendances (yeah, I can play propaganda too).

239507 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to leggy, 2, #1209 of 2060 🔗

Here and via SORUKfb, I’ve heard a more first-hand accounts of suicides than of people ill with covid.

239551 ▶▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1210 of 2060 🔗

Emma Kenny (from This Morning, & others) has highlighted that at least 9 young students have been found dead in their dorms in recent weeks. I’m guessing that’s 9 more than generally happens within just weeks of the start of term!

239462 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Victoria, 7, #1211 of 2060 🔗

Dorries is a vile bitch.I have been told first hand by a consultant Psychiatrist that there is,in his words,’a huge mountain of mental health issues’ due to the lockdowns etc.

239476 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Paul, 5, #1212 of 2060 🔗

It’s also ridiculous to imagine that everyone suffering will present to the NHS – or that they will have icicle’s chance of getting through to a GP even if they wanted to.

239469 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Victoria, 5, #1213 of 2060 🔗

I hate my MP so much…

It is so bad, I even had to vote Labour in the last election. I was surprised that a younger version of myself (Iraq War era) didn’t travel forward in time and kill me before I did this.

I still feel dirty, but I would have probably committed suicide by now if I had actually voted for the daft cow.

239538 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Victoria, 6, #1214 of 2060 🔗

Nadine can try to explain this to a cousin of mine who got sectioned for 3 months due to lockdown.
Nadine Dorreys is one immensely stupid woman. Very ignorant, very arrogant, her arrogance coverers up her intellectual ineptitude.
A staggering stupid thing for her to say. Hopefully she will get flamed for this.

239606 ▶▶ vargas99, replying to Victoria, 4, #1215 of 2060 🔗

My wife is a psychotherapist in private practice – never been busier. She also tells me that the waiting time for a CAMHS (children and adolescent mental health service) assessment is around a year!

239613 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to Victoria, 4, #1216 of 2060 🔗

Thank goodness for that! I’ll just go to my business partners grave & tell him. Perhaps this lovely lady would like to spend ten minutes in a locked room with me and Dave’s daughter?…

240415 ▶▶▶ Borisbullshit, replying to Arnie, #1217 of 2060 🔗

I am sure she would not come out in a good state!

239672 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Victoria, #1218 of 2060 🔗

That really beggars belief.

239729 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Victoria, 1, #1219 of 2060 🔗

Vile woman. She’s been on Twitter with some embarrassingly “Let them eat cake” type tweets.

Let’s hope they return to haunt her.

239439 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 5, #1220 of 2060 🔗

Does anyone know any doctors who dont speak out because they have mortgages etc and would lose their jobs, BUT would speak out if they thought that what was happening was dangerous ie FIRST DO NO HARM

239445 ▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #1221 of 2060 🔗

I think whistleblowing rules can be ignored if you know a crime is being committed.

239495 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #1222 of 2060 🔗

Being first/second on the list for the experimental vaccine might push some over the edge.

239442 calchas, replying to calchas, 20, #1223 of 2060 🔗

We have all heard about those who say: “well, anybody who refuses to take the vaccine, should have to pay their own costs if they get covid”, etc etc.

This works both ways.The answer is;

“Well, if you take the vaccine, are you ready to bear all the costs of vaccine injury should that occur”

If they say that the government will pick up the cost of that, whether true or not, the your answer is that that is socializing the costs of vaccine injury ie getting everyone else to share the costs of their ree decision.

The only honest answer you continue is to take out private insurance against the risk of vaccine injury. You say:

“Surely, if the risk of vaccine injury is so low, then the insurance against that risk must be cheaply available”

Of course it isn’t and that tells you all you want to know.

239461 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to calchas, 7, #1224 of 2060 🔗

I have had the sum total of a single 5 minute consultation with a GP since I was in my early teens (25 years). Can I have a big tax rebate?

That argument is stupid – I cycle a lot (well did until lockdown) this improves my health (can I have a rebate) or I could get hit by a truck and require extensive medicaul attention for the rest of my life should I survive (do I need to pay for this).

This kind of thinking is normalising the ideas behind social credit. Upon noting that someone is going to the pub several times a week and drinking more than 20 units of alcohol, registered via our cashless society, that person then has to pay additional surcharges for future medical interventions.

You bought chocolate. You drove, rather than walked, to the shop. You’re daily step average is only 5000. You have the central heating set too high/too long.

People seemingly want this…

239481 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Cicatriz, 4, #1225 of 2060 🔗

You are missing my point.

Firstly, I am merely making the rhetorical argument to someone who thinks a vaccine-sceptic should pay for the costs of contracting covid by asking that vaccine enthusiast if he is ready to pay the cosst of vaccine injury. In this case it is he who has introduced that level of granularity into the conversation.

Secondly, and more importantly, if an insurance company, which earns its money by means of the accurate assessment of risk, is not willing to insure that risk for me at a reasonable price, then how can a government expect me, who will bear the bodily consequences. to take the damned thing.

239493 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to calchas, 1, #1226 of 2060 🔗

Yes, I got that point, but I’m thinking this is the thin end of a wedge whereby people’s behaviour when not considered medically appropriate will cause them additional costs.

My observation is that people don’t seem to care about this. Government are already offloading responsibility of this “crisis” to the public from their gross mismanagment and the public are seemingly happy to blame people for not following dictats of the same incompetents.

AFAICT government couldn’t care less about shifting burden of risk on to the citizen.

239489 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #1227 of 2060 🔗

….and taxes are not insurance.

I have health insurance – I live outside the UK. The company offers various levels of cover, comprised of a number of modules where I can pick and choose.

That way I only pay for what I want.

Much better.

239501 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Cicatriz, #1228 of 2060 🔗

I do get a reduction in my premium if various factors are in certain ranges – BMI, cholesterol, blood sugar etc. Tested once a year.

In other words the outcomes are examined, not my behaviour as such.

239505 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to calchas, #1229 of 2060 🔗

Measuring outcomes makes much more sense than behaviour.

239526 ▶▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Cicatriz, 3, #1230 of 2060 🔗

I would rather eat lots of cholcolate, drink loads of booze and stay healthy than live on veggies, go jogging and get ill.

239537 ▶▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Cicatriz, 2, #1231 of 2060 🔗

Seriously, I understand the point you are making that this sort of thing could be thin end of the wedge for social credit, and I agree that we must be careful. Life is nothing without the freedom to live how you want to live, which is why we are both here on this blog.

My point in the original comment was to answer the vaccine enthusiast. I couls equally well say to him that we don’t penalize other people for various risks they take upon themselves, so why this?

239446 TJN, replying to TJN, 10, #1232 of 2060 🔗

Toby’s got £100 on Kamala Harris becoming the next President, at 460/1.

https://twitter.com/toadmeister/status/1326153453484249088

Tempted to put a quid on myself (tight aren’t I).

Makes no sense anyone offering odds like that – unless they are expecting Trump to stay in the White House this time around.

239455 ▶▶ Gerry Mandarin, replying to TJN, #1233 of 2060 🔗

check the rules, it is a possible bet.to sweeten xmas.

239466 ▶▶▶ Gerry Mandarin, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 1, #1234 of 2060 🔗

It is the person who wins a majority of EC Votes, or through process if tied.Faithless electors therefore have no bearing. Betfair may well settle this market in next few days. I’d avoid at odds less than 100,000-1

239460 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to TJN, 1, #1235 of 2060 🔗

It’s a good bet at that money EXCEPT technically Trump is the current president. The next one is likely to be Biden from what we are lead to believe.

239467 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to crimsonpirate, 3, #1236 of 2060 🔗

The point is that some (me included) doubt that Biden will make it to inauguration given his apparent mental and physical condition, so Harris would then step into the role.

239498 ▶▶▶▶ Gerry Mandarin, replying to Charlie Blue, #1237 of 2060 🔗

The rules say whoever wins the EC. Not who is inaugurated.

239503 ▶▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 1, #1238 of 2060 🔗

Apologies to crimsonpirate. My mistake. So they’ll have to shuffle off Biden PDQ then?

239553 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 1, #1239 of 2060 🔗

And the Electoral College doesn’t vote until January.

239470 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to crimsonpirate, #1240 of 2060 🔗

from his tweet Toby seems to be aware of this. In that case maybe the odds are too short

239899 ▶▶ Gtec, replying to TJN, #1241 of 2060 🔗

Possibility creepy Joe won’t make it to the inauguration, but even if does, he’ll have ‘resigned’ within six months, for Pam (my name for Harris).

If creepy does makes it to the inauguration, will they prop him up as the Russians did Brezhnev during the May and Revolution Day parades in Red Square?

From what I could see, he wasn’t too steady on his feet, and couldn’t read anything properly off a huge teleprompt at an empty car park rally during the campaign. Still, it could actually be anyone behind these hugh masks they all wear!

Either way, he won’t be President for long.

239459 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 14, #1242 of 2060 🔗

Well well well, as advised on one of the FOI answers I contacted the NHS.

Just received an answer back which states:

“NHS England does not hold information in relation to your request.”

So if the NHS does not have scientific evidence or any justifications for using positive PCR tests for all this legislation then who does?

They did add this:

The policy for COVID19 testing is provided by the Department for Health and Social Care (DHSC), as such you may wish to contact them. Their website is:

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department-of-health-and-social-care

Further information may be held by Public Health England (PHE), if you wish to contact PHE their website is:

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/public-health-england

But as I’ve already quoted the DHSC FOI in the request I know they have nothing.

Round and round and round.

Just like the old (1975) Aerosmith song – Round and Round.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEXoSyNRRhM

239471 ▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #1243 of 2060 🔗

Just all adds to the evidence when it eventually goes to court.

239596 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1244 of 2060 🔗

Get on to the Information Commissioner. The NHS simply must have e mails relating to PCR testing evidence. Perhaps your request was too narrow? E mails are always the easiest info to target.

239705 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to OKUK, #1245 of 2060 🔗

Here is the FOI in full:

https://1drv.ms/b/s!Agv7JEO8MngCiWbEqGTrkGWfYyay

Pretty open and conclusive.

239463 Eddy, replying to Eddy, 18, #1246 of 2060 🔗

Dear Mr Trump

I didn’t mean to kiss Mr Biden’s arse before he was elected. I know it was premature and I am a right fecking tool.

It was a genuine mistake. Honestly it was. Please can I still have some trade?

Please forgive me.

Regards

Boris (the dickhead)

239500 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Eddy, -4, #1247 of 2060 🔗

P.S. I know – I’m an idiot, since I previously was licking your arse. Please forgive, because I recognised a fellow narcissistic idiot in you. Sorry about the betrayal.

239519 ▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to RickH, -2, #1248 of 2060 🔗

Ps. I’ll let your grab Pussy by the Carrie

239464 Schrodinger, replying to Schrodinger, 14, #1249 of 2060 🔗

If this has been posted before apologies (as it’s hard to read everything here)

But this article was prophetically written in the BMJ in 2017 pointing out the risks of Vallance and Whitty moving from big Pharma to public positions in that there were massive conflicts of interest and as the article says. Astonishing to see how the dangers were apparent to someone then.

“The lowering of regulatory and HTA standards is in full swing and its main driver is the pharmaceutical industry. The general rhetoric of rushing drugs and devices through to needy patients willing to accept substantial risk rests on very thin evidence of benefit and unclear public support.

“Improving the quality of evidence is desperately needed as shown by the scores of examples of clinical trials that have been abandoned or distorted that have come to light in the last decade. Pandemic planning also requires some rethinking as the millions of pounds spent on a dubious with equally dubious fixes has shown. The close space of time of these “revolving doors” makes me wonder whether the government has objectively and properly overseen the decision making which has led to such important public positions being filled by senior industry figures. Can one walk away from leading industry, or rubbing shoulders with it, and perform an important public health function with impartiality? HM Government seems to think so, but if you are unsure (as I am) you may be given pause for thought.”

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2017/12/06/tom-jefferson-the-uk-turns-to-witty-vallance-and-van-tam-for-leadership-revolving-doors

239472 ▶▶ Alan P, replying to Schrodinger, 5, #1250 of 2060 🔗

Wow! Not seen this before. That really is the smoking gun.

239478 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Alan P, 1, #1251 of 2060 🔗

The three (un)wise monkeys!

239541 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1252 of 2060 🔗

Two of them, anyway.

239485 ▶▶ Simon Cook, replying to Schrodinger, #1253 of 2060 🔗

Thank you for posting Farfrae. Might it be possible to ensure Mike Yeadon, Peter Hitchens, Ivor Cummins etc… are aware.

239487 ▶▶▶ Schrodinger, replying to Simon Cook, #1254 of 2060 🔗

I don’t do Twitter etc. but if anyone can share with them please do.

239492 ▶▶▶▶ Simon Cook, replying to Schrodinger, 4, #1255 of 2060 🔗

I’d be happy to do so Farfrae. I have also just realised that the Tom Jefferson who write the article is the very same who works with Carl Heneghan @ CEBM

239494 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Schrodinger, 4, #1256 of 2060 🔗

Yes – it’s a seminal article, not least because it was written way before this shit-show blew up, even though it was informed by the Swine Flu’ debacle which had all the same markers.

Note the author – Tom Jefferson, who is Carl Heneghan’s close colleague at the Truth-Unto-Power organisation – the CEBM.

Opinions worth umpteen times more than those of Whitty, Vallance and Van Tam combined.

The other paper that should be read in conjunction with it is the 2010 Council of Europe Social, Health and Family Affairs Committee Report on the Swine Flu’ fake pandemic. It’s very relevant. Unfortunately, I haven’t got a URL, even tho’ I’ve downloaded a copy. Again – the importance is that it pre-dates the current stuff.

239513 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Schrodinger, 1, #1257 of 2060 🔗

Different Whitty I believe. Rest are the clowns we know though

239568 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to Schrodinger, #1258 of 2060 🔗

Excellent post, thank you.

239474 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 13, #1259 of 2060 🔗

It’s starting!!
From the DT live:

People who self-isolate after testing positive should be given a “freedom pass” enabling them to do whatever they want for three months, MPs have been told.
Sir John Bell, Regius Chair of Medicine at the University of Oxford, said the current contact tracing system was “massively ineffective” and would be “much improved” by quarantining people with a positive test result and symptoms.
He told the Science and Technology committee chair Greg Clark: “My view is you test people, if they have got a positive result you ask them to quarantine for two weeks, and ensure they quarantine for two weeks, and if they behave themselves you give them a freedom pass for three months.
“You say ‘you have had the disease, you can go and do anything you want for three months – it is fine’,” he added.
“If they test negative you can then have a couple of days freedom because you know that they are not infected. If they are a contact you test them every other day but leave them to go about their business in the real world, so there are advantages to everybody from this.
“The negatives do better, the positives do better and people will want to be tested because it’s an opportunity to get back to normal life.”
Asked if people with symptoms who got a negative result should isolate anyway, he said the “data was very clear” this was unnecessary.
“95 per cent of people with symptoms do not have this disease – most people with these symptoms are hypochondriacs,” he explained. “If you use symptoms as the only way of identifying people you will be locking down a lot of people who shouldn’t be locked down.”
Speaking to the Commons this afternoon Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, suggested he would consider such a move.

239490 ▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to Cheezilla, 10, #1260 of 2060 🔗

Sorry, I don’t need a bit of paper to tell me that I’m free to go about my business!

239491 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Cheezilla, 14, #1261 of 2060 🔗

He is either breathtakingly arrogant or completely autistic given some of those remarks. He is, however, a man who has various non-exec positions with Big Pharma and Gates Foundation.

239496 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #1262 of 2060 🔗

Wow. So each one of us has the potential to earn a whole three months of some degraded version of freedom during our lifespan. Where do I sign up?

239497 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #1263 of 2060 🔗

if they behave themselves

WTAF!

 Speaking to the Commons this afternoon Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, suggested he would consider such a move.

Yeah, I’ll bet he fucking would!

239506 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #1264 of 2060 🔗

95 per cent of people with symptoms do not have this disease

“95 per cent of people with symptoms do not have this disease”

Fixed that for him.

239508 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #1265 of 2060 🔗

“95 per cent of people with symptoms do not have this disease – most people with these symptoms are hypochondriacs’,
Yes,because there isn’t any other illness on the planet now is there ?,if you haven’t got covid you can’t possibly have something else,like flu or pneumonia can you ?.
What an arrogant prick,he will go far in this country.

239512 ▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Paul, 2, #1266 of 2060 🔗

Isn’t he saying the opposite of what you are suggesting he is?

239576 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1267 of 2060 🔗

Hancock needs to go. Quick. That he sits there and listens to such evil suggestions, nodding, makes him so dangerous. These people care not one bit about your health and wellbeing. Democracy is dying.

239675 ▶▶ DocRC, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #1268 of 2060 🔗

John Bell was in my year at medical school. He seemed quite sensible in those days…….

239479 Freecumbria, 6, #1269 of 2060 🔗

Right Said Fred – We’re All Criminals (Trailer)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV30DmrIquM

Any suggested lines for the rest of the song? Based on personal experience. I’ll start with

‘Had some tea at my 90 year old neighbour’s house
We’re all criminals’

239499 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 4, #1270 of 2060 🔗

Trial of Chinese vaccine in Brazil has been suspended following a death.

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/chinas-sinovac-vaccine-trial-suspended-030737039.html

239509 ▶▶ jb12, replying to Margaret, 1, #1271 of 2060 🔗

So China have greater moral fibre than those conducting the Oxford trial.

239511 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Margaret, 3, #1272 of 2060 🔗

So going by the “if it same one life” it’s worth it logic. Can the opposite be argued “if it kills one life” it’s not worth it logic.

239510 Julian, replying to Julian, 15, #1273 of 2060 🔗

Initial conversations with a few people today regarding the vaccine – people are relieved because they think they will be able to stop thinking about the whole thing and move on. Even relative sceptics welcome it, knowing it is political, because they think all of this will be over. They may nor may not be right; time will tell. But none of them seemed too worried about the danger that the bar has been set so low that this crap can easily happen again.

239518 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 12, #1274 of 2060 🔗

So few people actually understand that it is all but over anyway. As Yeadon correctly observed, it’s only not over because SAGE and the government refuse to admit that it’s over.

And “over” by the fake vaccine route just means it’s likely we will have to do it all over again, having learned nothing, the next time.

239520 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 8, #1275 of 2060 🔗

That experience reflects mine – and I think that it is a vital driver that people have been driven to the point where, to put it crudely, they will suck up any old shit in the hope of getting back to normal.

As you say, even relative sceptics express this ‘let’s get it over with’ attitude.

Nice work for all those that helped invest our billions in vaccine production and will make a fast – or slower – buck from it, directly or indirectly.

(Oh hello, Professor Vallance)

239554 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to RickH, 5, #1276 of 2060 🔗

I was interested to hear Vallance is apparently a far-left socialist (obviously the champagne type). Always amazed the further left politically someone is these days the more tyrannical people seem to be. I honestly thought some of them would be defending citizens human rights and civil liberties – but not a single one.

239572 ▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Darryl, 5, #1277 of 2060 🔗

I think the left-right thing has less and less relevance.

Authoritarian or anti-authoriarian?

Coporate/governmental vs small is beautiful, human scale for human beings.

There are more salient.

239896 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to calchas, 1, #1278 of 2060 🔗

Human vs inhuman!

239577 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Darryl, 1, #1279 of 2060 🔗

Interesting. Yes I could see him in the Politburo.

239584 ▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Darryl, 7, #1280 of 2060 🔗

in my experience, many wealthy people become left-wing because it gives their privilege a ‘cloak of invisibility’. they may or may not believe it but it makes them not feel so bad

239699 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Darryl, 1, #1281 of 2060 🔗

I recall reading he was “removed” by the new big boss at the request of the shareholders due to his poor performance as chief researcher.

239522 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Julian, 8, #1282 of 2060 🔗

It comes down to mindset.If you believe in Government incompetence and arse covering then the vaccine is the way out.It gives the government the way out of this mess.
If you believe there is something darker then the vaccine is only the beginning.Who really believes that if you refuse the vaccine you will face no sanctions.

239535 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #1283 of 2060 🔗

I still favour the former explanation, though I am less convinced than I once was. However, I don’t think that the first iteration of any vaccine will be the end. In the interests of arse covering I believe that they will want to keep us all under tight control for as long as posisble to avoid the possibilty of any scrutiny.

239546 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 3, #1284 of 2060 🔗

I believe in government cowardice and arse covering, and that it is POSSIBLE that the vaccine will lead them to say we can move on. This is my hope, but it is far from certain, if for no other reason than I think some of them have grown to like the attention and power that ruling by fear in a constant state of emergency allows.

If it is a “way out”, it is not the one I would want to see taken. I would rather we carried on for another few months until such time as the majority realise the whole thing has been a big mistake and will be “immunised” against the next overblown “pandemic”. But of course a few months may equally turn into a few years.

239567 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #1285 of 2060 🔗

I have no doubt we will be punished for defying government orders – they are hardly a liberal bunch in parliament.

The Europeans will have it much worse – can’t see any easy escape from the vaccine in some countries, the EU is fully behind it and its court is hardly independent.

239524 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Julian, 10, #1286 of 2060 🔗

When the vaccine has been rolled out do you think the Coronavirus act will be repealed? No chance. The act or some version will be continually renewed in the interests of public health and safety. They may relax some of the regulations now and then but only temporarily, those essential liberties are lost forever.

239542 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Achilles, #1287 of 2060 🔗

A propotion of it has no sunset clause anyway.

239547 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Cicatriz, #1288 of 2060 🔗

Which part?

239765 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Julian, #1289 of 2060 🔗

It was on the UK Column back in March, I can’t remember the specifics, sorry. Unfortunately my memory only functions properly back to a few days now. I put it down to a lack of stimulus.

239561 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Achilles, 3, #1290 of 2060 🔗

It doesn’t need to be repealed as it will lapse, though it’s possible it will get renewed – but in a way that’s less relevant than whether or not the public at large realise they’ve been had. If they don’t it will be easy to bring it in again.

What might stay around for longer is masks on public transport and in shops, by order of the respective businesses rather than government, more distancing again coming from risk-averse health and safety people, masks on planes, tests before travelling abroad, and general health paranoia permeating society, more online stuff, online universities.

239639 ▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Julian, 2, #1291 of 2060 🔗

True. We have to hope that at some point a simple desire for people to get back to “normal” will reject the fear and safetyism. That’s if they can still remember what normal was.

239527 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Julian, 5, #1292 of 2060 🔗

Even if we do manage to end this next year, I would still be worried about the precedent. We’ll always have the threat of the next pandemic hanging over us because we could be going through this all over again. The Coronavirus act, as with all the post-9/11 Counter-Terrorism legislation, will remain on the statue books.

239539 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to DRW, 3, #1293 of 2060 🔗

Every October to protect the NHS as a minimum.

239543 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to DRW, #1294 of 2060 🔗

Pandemics are virtually routine. One can expect one every decade or so.

239571 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Steve Hayes, #1295 of 2060 🔗

They appear to be becoming more frequent in the 21st century.

239549 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to DRW, 1, #1296 of 2060 🔗

Yes, would prefer the whole to be exposed for the nonsense it is

239590 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Julian, 1, #1297 of 2060 🔗

Unfortunately I’m not sure the masses will ever fully wake up.

239555 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Julian, 12, #1298 of 2060 🔗

Sadly NOT.

This will be the start of:
1) the electronic health ID, where you will no longer be able to take decisions about your own health
2) compulsory vaccinations for everything they deem fit with annual boosters. People will develop health issues (and possibly die) from all the adjuvants that bypasses the body’s normal protection against foreign invaders.

Wake up people. Getting the vaccination will not stop the Government interfering in our lives and curtailing our rights and liberties. The only way to stop this is to stop the nonsense.

239610 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Victoria, 7, #1299 of 2060 🔗

Governments never willingly give up power.They have already told us what they want to do.Health/digital passport is the next step.EU central bank and Bank of England already discussing digital currencies openly.
Is it a leap of faith th believe furlough morphing into UBI.
The economic crash will make these ideas a reality and usher in the zero carbon economy which they have already signed up for.
The vaccine rather than the end is the beginning of this new system.

239574 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Julian, 4, #1300 of 2060 🔗

when its over we need it to be so over that it won’t happen again. we’ve got this every fucking winter for flu if you let them. devi sridhar will have a zero flu policy.

239968 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to steve_w, 1, #1301 of 2060 🔗

We need a zero Devious Sridhar policy.

239521 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 29, #1303 of 2060 🔗

Just been talking to my neighbour who’s a self employed cleaner and asked her if she had managed to keep all her present jobs.
Yes and I’ve got another 2 jobs on top of those I’ve already got.
Sounds like LD2 is going well then don’t it? (Lock yourself away, only go out if absolutely necessary, etc.)
MOST OF THE POPULATION HAS GIVEN THE GOVERNMENT AND THE SO CALLED OPPOSITION AND ALL THE REST, THE COLLECTIVE TWO FINGERS.

239534 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Fingerache Philip., 7, #1304 of 2060 🔗

That is about the best thing to come out of LD2, proof they are losing the masses.

239565 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #1305 of 2060 🔗

I certainly hope so, but I’m not sure it’s clear cut. Perhaps it’s just the people I live near and know, but I think the latest attempted deprivation of our liberties has sent many others in the other direction. My neighbours who carried on fairly normally (apart from not seeing their grandchildren) last lockdown have now cancelled their cleaner (though to their credit they will still pay her) and are getting a younger friend to deliver their groceries. Other friends are crowing about how things are really becoming so dangerous now and ramping up their fear messages and virtue signalling. I am still desperately sad that hardly anyone turned up to my local war memorial on Sunday (usually well-attended). I really do need to meet some different people if we ever come out the other end!

239608 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Charlie Blue, 11, #1306 of 2060 🔗

My mother, in her 80s said there were 50 of them on the green in her village on Sunday in spite of the best efforts of the vicar, who is actually called Twitty, to stop them.

239624 ▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Will, 5, #1307 of 2060 🔗

Oh that’s very good to hear!

239712 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #1308 of 2060 🔗

ANYONE can come to your house if you’re paying them to work. That’s been the case all along You’re just not allowed to see our own family.

239528 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 11, #1309 of 2060 🔗

https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/coronavirus/all-gps-to-get-twice-weekly-covid-tests-starting-next-week/?utm_source=pulse%20breaking&utm_medium=newsletter Why if they’re asymptomatic? If it’s positive then that’s one GP down, if it’s a large practice then probably more will have to isolate. Talk about running primary care into the ground. Will urgent care centres be expected to pick up the slack?

239531 ▶▶ Julian, replying to p02099003, 9, #1310 of 2060 🔗

It increases the chances of the NHS being overwhelmed, which strengthens the case for lockdowns.

239533 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to p02099003, 4, #1311 of 2060 🔗

Exactly. Stop testing people without symptoms

239544 ▶▶ DRW, replying to p02099003, 2, #1312 of 2060 🔗

Great for them, excuse for even more time at home on full pay.

239548 ▶▶ Sceptic, replying to p02099003, 1, #1313 of 2060 🔗

New test is less sensitive and all positives have to be reconfirmed with PCR testing. That at least is acknowledging that false positives are a big issue. At least if you get 2 positives in means you almost certainly had the virus recently. Not a reason to isolate necessarily though…

239600 ▶▶ Will, replying to p02099003, 3, #1314 of 2060 🔗

I assume they will be testing the GPs at home because few of them are actually at work.

239710 ▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Will, 2, #1315 of 2060 🔗

ur lay off . I ve been working f2f from day 1

239893 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Peter Thompson, #1316 of 2060 🔗

That’s wonderful for your patients. Unfortunately, many of your colleagues aren’t as conscientious as you.

239704 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to p02099003, 1, #1317 of 2060 🔗

What about those GPs who’ve been hiding at home throughout?

239719 ▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to p02099003, 1, #1318 of 2060 🔗

interesting . I did see the Brigadier last night explaing these new lateral flow tests . They seem great fun !

https://twitter.com/Darren_Dutton/status/1325918440255840256

239828 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Peter Thompson, 1, #1319 of 2060 🔗

That’s brilliant! Get him on Ideal World with Peter Simon; he likes a guy in uniform, I’m told.

He’d obviously been handed it 2 minutes before going on air; literally no idea what’s he’s doing there. 🙂

239867 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to p02099003, 2, #1320 of 2060 🔗

It’s madness of course. But not unexpected.
It’s what Moonshot is all about, surely..
Every section of society to be mass repeat tested (except Police), leading to critical personnel shortages.

239529 Sceptic, replying to Sceptic, #1321 of 2060 🔗

I’m a fan of this website and appreciate the more balanced view it provides. However, there are a couple of recent claims which are misleading. For example:

https://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/11/04/latest-news-183/#a-plea-to-mps-from-mike-yeadon-dont-vote-for-lockdown

In the above link, it is claimed that the pandemic is over and this 2nd wave is purely a result of increased testing and false positives. This is somewhat supported by the fact that deaths from respiratory illnesses are lower now than in the same period over the last 5 years. However, even the article from today acknowledges that in the North West cases are clearly on the up and even that the North West is seeing the same kind of wave that London saw initially. So which is it? I appreciate the above article was looking more at the nation as a whole, but it’s a very strong claim to say that everything now is a result of false positives (though they definitely are a major issue). I think it’s clearly incorrect?

Another claim of the last few weeks was that China grounded internal flights out of Wuhan, but not to the rest of the world. This is a claim Donald Trump made and it has since been discredited here:

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/05/trumps-flawed-china-travel-conspiracy/

Seems you have to keep your sceptical mindset even on this website.

239659 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Sceptic, 8, #1322 of 2060 🔗

“Cases” are on the up based on a dodgy PCR testing regime. In addition, many of the symptoms of COVID19 are similar to other respiratory illnesses and as such, the easy route for the medical “profession” is to declare anything that might by COVID on a symptoms basis as such even if it is any one of the other respiratory illness that do the rounds at this time of year. Lockdown sceptics 101.

239858 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Sceptic, 4, #1323 of 2060 🔗

If you have a sceptical mindset, I suggest you should extend that to ‘fact-checking’ sites.
Always look for their sources of funding and any affiliations they might have.
This one takes funding from Facebook.
Are cases in the NW on the up?
Or is it simply PCR ‘positives’?
Do we implicitly trust the labs and the testing stations?
I don’t…
That ‘international flights out of Hubei’ issue is mired in claim and counter-claim.
It’s difficult to uncover the objective truth.
My own hypothesis is that this was intentionally seeded around the world.
Which can’t easily be proved or disproved.

239536 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 19, #1324 of 2060 🔗

We want real joy back in our lives, not the fake joy of watching BBC presenters (and their mates elsewhere) pretending that the vaccine is wonderful news that will bring us back to normality jn thd Spring.

239578 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to OKUK, 15, #1325 of 2060 🔗

There was a tv report from Bridgnorth in Shropshire today and the reporter was genuinely surprised that the town was full of people and traffic.
He really should get out more.

239638 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Fingerache Philip., 13, #1326 of 2060 🔗

They’re a different bloody species. About ten years ago all the reporters changed into clones with frantic and deeply implausible facial expressions. All the males have high squeaky voices and all the females have abnormally strong jaws. They’re all in a permanent state of outrage or panic, even when posted to a roundabout in Rutland at 3 a.m. on the off chance that a hurricane might strike. There’s nothing more ridiculous in the whole wide world. Stop watching the news and just read it instead.

239654 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 6, #1327 of 2060 🔗

I watched a lot more news since lockdown and you are right.Instead of just reporting all the reporters are emoting and acting.It makes it unwatchable

239645 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1328 of 2060 🔗

Wife says it was on lunchtime news but can’t remember off it was BBC or ITV.

Says he was a real idiot and had no clue.

240417 ▶▶▶ Borisbullshit, replying to Fingerache Philip., #1329 of 2060 🔗

I have given up going to Bridgnorth…it became mask and swerver city!

239545 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #1330 of 2060 🔗

Did we know about this?

The Coronavirus (Retention of Fingerprints and DNA Profiles in the Interests of National Security) (No. 2) Regulations 2020

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/973/made?view=plain&fbclid=IwAR1n1wjKYAnXnZeEEAJdjNkRZ9eKaeaiV5GANqYc2ClLGgUYc_OGu-AVAPI

239552 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1331 of 2060 🔗

Yep

239556 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 16, #1332 of 2060 🔗

I’ve just received a text from the Blood donor service with a message talking to me as if I was a 5 year old.
I started giving blood in 1974 and this donation will be my 89th.
Patronising gits.
I will still go though because a fellow sceptic might need an “armfull” of A positive.

239559 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #1333 of 2060 🔗

Please designate it ‘sceptic only’. Toby can arrange a promo code. 🙂

239566 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to calchas, 2, #1334 of 2060 🔗

Good idea.

239579 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #1335 of 2060 🔗

It surely wouldn’t mix well with Sheeple blood.
Don’t go round with an empty arm.

239586 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to annie, 3, #1336 of 2060 🔗

You’re not old enough to remember Tony Hancock, surely.

239591 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1337 of 2060 🔗

I most certainly am!
But we have a book of the scripts and that has to be the very best.

239592 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1338 of 2060 🔗

I listened to the repeats – late 60s.

‘That’s an armful’

239604 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #1339 of 2060 🔗

‘Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you. Did she die in vain?”

239616 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Cecil B, 1, #1340 of 2060 🔗

Enough, enough!!!

239626 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1341 of 2060 🔗

I can reassure you all that it is not raining in Bangkok.

239647 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 9, #1342 of 2060 🔗

Seriously though, when Hancock was on TV and radio: if you had a cold, you had a cold and if you had the flu, you had the flu; there wasn’t mass panic and life didn’t shut down.

239658 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #1343 of 2060 🔗

Something has gone catastrophically, perhaps irrevocably wrong with how people view life.

239702 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 2, #1344 of 2060 🔗

And death.

239693 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #1345 of 2060 🔗

Back in the 60s, when most people didn’t have home telephones, during a flu epidemic, you’d just take yourself off to bed for a couple of days. No way would you trek out looking for a phone box. Your boss would assume you had flu and they’d see you when you were better.

239714 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Cheezilla, 5, #1346 of 2060 🔗

I remember in the early 60’s when I was 14, I had a rash on my upper chest and throat over a weekend and on the Monday, I went to the doctors who had a look at me and said “oh, you probably had the German Measles, shrugged his shoulders and said “send the next patient in”

239649 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #1347 of 2060 🔗

My father had The Radio Ham and The Blood Donor on LP. My very early formative years were spent standing beside the gramophone binge listening to Hancock, Eartha Kitt, Tom Lehrer … and Val Doonican. Nobody has perfect taste.

239652 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to NorthumbrianNomad, #1348 of 2060 🔗

Billy Cotton band show?

239673 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1349 of 2060 🔗

I believe I only heard that on the 1972 LP he had commemorating 50 years of the BBC. That was a good listen, it had Chamberlain, John Snagge, somebody dying in a fire in The Archers, Much-Binding-in-the-Marsh, The Goons.

239696 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1350 of 2060 🔗

Wyekey wyekye.

Memories of my Grandma’s on Saturdays!

239588 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to annie, 4, #1351 of 2060 🔗

PS. They tell me that ABSceptical is a very rare blood group.

239602 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to annie, 1, #1352 of 2060 🔗

Very good, Annie.
I wonder if the sheep and collaborators have a sense of humour?

239601 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to annie, 2, #1353 of 2060 🔗

Reminds me of muggles and mudbloods.

239657 ▶▶ steph, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1354 of 2060 🔗

I’m sure you know that a mask must be worn throughout and they are not allowing exceptions?

239668 ▶▶▶ Andrea Salford, replying to steph, 3, #1355 of 2060 🔗

Peter Hitchens did a very good piece on this. He turned up, starkly refused to wear a mask and went instead across the border to Wales where they don’t insist in masks for blood donors.

239692 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Andrea Salford, 1, #1356 of 2060 🔗

I believe that it’s the same in Wales now.

239682 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to steph, #1357 of 2060 🔗

Yes.

239557 calchas, replying to calchas, 6, #1358 of 2060 🔗

German politican Lauterbach is saying today, that after a vaccine is introduced we will have to keep distancing and masks at least one year, before even thinking of stopping.

239562 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to calchas, 7, #1359 of 2060 🔗

I won’t.

239570 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to calchas, 5, #1360 of 2060 🔗

‘crises’ like this is what smokes out the nutters

239622 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to calchas, 6, #1361 of 2060 🔗

I’m afraid we’ve been warned of this already.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(20)30151-8/fulltext

interventions that have been in use since early in the pandemic, most crucially physical distancing and hand hygiene, must continue indefinitely … It is time to forcefully impress on people that basic measures to limit the transmission of SARS-CoV-2 are here to stay. This is the new normal

239694 ▶▶ dhpaul, replying to calchas, 1, #1362 of 2060 🔗

Why would that surprise anyone who thinks

239558 RickH, replying to RickH, 31, #1363 of 2060 🔗

With all the recent focus on the vaccine, the primary question is fading into the background, namely :

“What is all the fuss about concerning this not-very-remarkable virus with low mortality and few consequences for the population under 65? And why is a vaccine needed?”

239569 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to RickH, 9, #1364 of 2060 🔗

the ‘I cant see what the fuss is about’ is the general reaction of people who I speak to. including a couple of NHS staff one of whom had it

239631 ▶▶ watashi, replying to RickH, 4, #1365 of 2060 🔗

exactly

239563 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 19, #1366 of 2060 🔗

quick help with something

1 – SAGE recommended we lock down
2 – SAGE didn’t do a cost benefit of locking down
3 – whitty and valance said it wasn’t SAGE’s responsibility to look at costs of lockdown
4 – they recommended a lock down without doing a cost benefit analysis whilst admitting that looking at the other side of the equation was nothing to do with them

have I missed something? shouldn’t they be in prison?

239585 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to steve_w, 8, #1367 of 2060 🔗

I certainly would like to see Whitty and Valance in the dock and it beggars belief that they have kept their jobs. But SAGE considers the questions that are put to them by Government. I believe the buck stops with Bozo and co – they should have been asking these questions of SAGE and if that group could not cope with the workload (despite the huge numbers of people involved) then others should have been tasked with the research and analysis.

239599 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Charlie Blue, 2, #1368 of 2060 🔗

does SAGE have an official remit? I assumed they would be expected to cover effects of lockdown too. they aren’t a covid task force

239618 ▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to steve_w, 4, #1369 of 2060 🔗

No, they long pre-dated covid. Just the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies. Their remit is to provide scientific and technical advice to the Government to support decision making. Various sub-groups exist – there is not one with a remit for looking at wider harms so it just hasn’t been part of the picture.

239648 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Charlie Blue, 4, #1370 of 2060 🔗

It’s a bit like saying if your car develops a fault it’s best to put it with the mechanic for a month so he can take it apart and rebuild it from scratch, even if the car is essential to work and family. Never kind the cost and inconvenience or the impact on your income and those you love! Of course we all know that the very act of rebuilding the car will in reality guarantee more faults.

239747 ▶▶▶▶ kf99, replying to steve_w, 3, #1371 of 2060 🔗

Someone mentioned earlier that SAGE covers all emergencies (nuclear attack etc downwards). Not just medical ones. Arguable whether they should even be involved in covid at all. Not sure MSM understands this.

239587 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to steve_w, 6, #1372 of 2060 🔗

This only ends well with jail time. Otherwise they have won and your ass is theirs

239605 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to steve_w, 5, #1373 of 2060 🔗

I see it that their job is to make recommendations to the government, based on medical evidence. They recommended a measure, that has no scientific basis, locking up the healthy. Why did they think this was an option?

239620 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to steve_w, 4, #1374 of 2060 🔗
239621 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to steve_w, 7, #1375 of 2060 🔗

Yes, but while claiming to have no responsibility for analysing the effects of the lockdown, they were adamant – to the point of fanatic insistence – that all lockdown deaths to date were “on the Covid side” of the balance sheet. So maybe a psychiatric institution rather than prison would be more appropriate.

239573 annie, replying to annie, 12, #1376 of 2060 🔗

Our local Covviemorons were in full blether this morning.
Wonderful new miracle vaccine, aren’t these scientists clever, we’ll all have it and go back to normal, those who get it won’t die of Covid, bleat bleat bleat.

I wonder what they will die of.

239580 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to annie, 6, #1377 of 2060 🔗

Brain rot?

239594 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to annie, 7, #1378 of 2060 🔗

Ignorance

239642 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to annie, 7, #1379 of 2060 🔗

The vaccine.

239757 ▶▶ helen, replying to annie, 1, #1380 of 2060 🔗

foot and mouth

239575 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 19, #1381 of 2060 🔗

Today we can discuss the vaccine that Boris sprung on us last night as a smokescreen so that we no longer discuss the wrong data that they used to implement lockdown2.

TOMORROW back to discussing and challenging the government data lies and the leaked document as proof etc. Also to challenge the validity of these tests and challenge the waste of money on testing people without symptoms.

239598 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Victoria, 9, #1382 of 2060 🔗

Yes, yesterday’s announcements were a huge distraction.

239627 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to DRW, 4, #1383 of 2060 🔗

Oh yes of course, I think almost everyone on here and sceptics generally would agree

239589 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 15, #1384 of 2060 🔗

I can end this in 14 days

1 Every one switch off your mobile phone and leave it at home
2, If it is a requirement of your employment to be treated then go sick for 14days
3 Do not contact a hospital or GP for 14days
4 Do not get tested for 14days

239612 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Cecil B, 17, #1385 of 2060 🔗

I can end this tomorrow. Stop testing healthy people. Reduce the PCR cycles to 30, or scrap it altogether.

239595 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, #1386 of 2060 🔗

Two-Six,

Got an answer back from the council meeting yesterday:

The Terms of Reference for the LOEB state: “the Board will not answer public questions – these will continue to be answered by the HWBB, Executive or Council as relevant”.

The following provides more information on submitting public questions: https://info.westberks.gov.uk/meetingquestion.&nbsp ;

Alternatively, if you don’t want to wait to submit this as a public question, then we can send a private response in the usual timescales.

239636 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Awkward Git, #1387 of 2060 🔗

Hummm I got the same thing..
What does it even mean?
Mandip, that’s the Brainwashing woman.

239661 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1388 of 2060 🔗

Shall I send my favourite FOI to stir some shit?

Or you want the letter I sent to my councillors?

240366 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Awkward Git, #1389 of 2060 🔗

Yer go on then. It’s encouraging to see these people are just ordinary local low-level fools. Not evil Machiavellian dark actors.

239603 Bumble, replying to Bumble, 10, #1390 of 2060 🔗

Looking at today’s unemployment figures there are 600k fewer foreign born workers in employment than 12 months ago. For quite some time I have been wondering whether this jobs armageddon is intentional from the government and Cummings. Lots of hard hit sectors have significant eu workers eg hotels. If they drive significant low paid eu migrants out then after January they can’t come back because of points. They could then force desperate uk workers to do those jobs. Would they be so awful ?

239625 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Bumble, 4, #1391 of 2060 🔗

I wouldn’t put it past them to be awful, but I am not sure the approach would work as a lot of the workers would probably already have settled status.

239662 ▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to Julian, 1, #1392 of 2060 🔗

Well I think 600k is about 20%, based on 3m eu workers so it’s not all but still a sizeable chunk and even if settled, would you hang about on universal credit or head home ?

239703 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Julian, 1, #1393 of 2060 🔗

Settled status won’t mean anything if they can’t get any jobs and the last resort will be that they will have to return to their home countries to move in back with their families and try to get jobs there.

239607 Liz F, replying to Liz F, 4, #1394 of 2060 🔗

The UK has already ordered 40 million doses of Covid vaccine, enough to vaccinate up to 20 million guinea-pigs.

239614 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to Liz F, 7, #1395 of 2060 🔗

I’m sure they won’t have any trouble getting 20m volunteers. All the b**wetters will be queueing up.

239617 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Liz F, 5, #1396 of 2060 🔗

Will my hamster be eligible?

239632 ▶▶▶ Liz F, replying to Cecil B, 10, #1397 of 2060 🔗

He might just be eligible by a whisker…

239676 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Liz F, 2, #1398 of 2060 🔗

Groan.

239726 ▶▶▶▶▶ Liz F, replying to Fingerache Philip., #1399 of 2060 🔗

Sorry 😉

239619 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Liz F, 4, #1400 of 2060 🔗

What about humans? Are guinea pigs the new mink? Why are we doing this to innocent rodents? (Sorry, I’m taking refuge in humour.)

239629 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 3, #1401 of 2060 🔗

The rats are obviously in charge now and are trying it out on us first.

I don’t blame you for taking refuge in that port NN.

239651 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 1, #1402 of 2060 🔗

No Stoats are the new Mink

239870 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, 1, #1403 of 2060 🔗

Not so, they are stotally different.

239687 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Liz F, #1404 of 2060 🔗

Could lead to a guinea pig shortage…

239708 ▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to OKUK, 4, #1405 of 2060 🔗

There are 650 available in Westminster.
And the 800+ coffin dodgers who have failed to hold them to account to be used for smoking and cosmetics testing (all in the name of science)

239611 calchas, replying to calchas, 8, #1406 of 2060 🔗

“Joining the hosts of This Week in Virology in July, Fauci directly responded to a question about COVID-19 testing, specifically how patients with positive tests might determine whether or not they are actually infectious and need to quarantine.

“What is now sort of evolving into a bit of a standard,” Fauci said, is that “ if you get a cycle threshold of 35 or more … the chances of it being replication-confident are minuscule.”

“It’s very frustrating for the patients as well as for the physicians,” he continued, when “somebody comes in, and they repeat their PCR, and it’s like [a] 37 cycle threshold, but you almost never can culture virus from a 37 threshold cycle.”

So, I think if somebody does come in with 37, 38, even 36, you got to say, you know, it’s just dead nucleotides, period.”

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/fauci-admitted-truth-about-covid-19-tests-july-and-has-misled-public

239674 ▶▶ 2 pence, replying to calchas, 6, #1407 of 2060 🔗

See in India.
They use standard FLU like cycles of 20 to 25.

We shifted from one private lab to another with the agreement that Ct value will be mentioned. The treatment is based on it,” said Dr Jagadish Hiremath, CEO, Ace Suhas Hospital. “If the value is between 20 and 25, home isolation can be advised, but the patient must be monitored through online consultations. Hospital admission is a must in cases where the value is less than 20. This is particularly necessary for patients who are aged 50 or more and have comorbidity.”

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bengaluru/covid-19-test-reports-must-also-state-ct-value-doctors/articleshow/77956302.cms

239877 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to 2 pence, 2, #1408 of 2060 🔗

Very sensible!

239615 calchas, replying to calchas, 12, #1409 of 2060 🔗

Just imagine if they declared a vaccine and nobody turned up.

239653 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to calchas, #1410 of 2060 🔗

Dream on!

239709 ▶▶ FenTyger, replying to calchas, 1, #1411 of 2060 🔗

We could all sing a verse of “Alice’s Restaurant” and leave.

239623 Will, replying to Will, 6, #1412 of 2060 🔗

Does anyone think it is deliberate that the Reich ministry of Public Enlightenment and Propaganda, formerly known as the BBC, keep banging on about the vaccine not being suitable for children?

239637 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Will, 1, #1413 of 2060 🔗

What’s the reason given, Will (not that this could in any way be a bad thing)?

239640 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Will, 1, #1414 of 2060 🔗

Yes – if they keep banging on about

239630 Arnie, replying to Arnie, 28, #1415 of 2060 🔗

Just been into town with the family. Really busy. Virtually no masks. Lots of people moaning about having to wear masks in the shops but all the door staff have gone. Very heartening to see.
Arnie.

239656 ▶▶ PWL, replying to Arnie, 13, #1416 of 2060 🔗

So, I take it that people wore masks in the shops? I can see the future. Lots of people moaning about having to get on the cattle trucks.

I’ve never worn a face covering in a shop. I’m not getting a vaccine. I’m not going to a concentration camp. If people do the first, they’ll do it all.

 On the contrary, as well as refusing to comply in the first stages of tyranny so as to actively work to prevent the later ones, it is my will that the criminals who perpetrated the coronahoax will face a reckoning. And so it shall happen.

A list of FBEL’s Covid-19 articles – and brief comments regarding continuation of coronahoax

239677 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to PWL, 4, #1417 of 2060 🔗

I want to believe they will. But let’s not forget all the War on Terror protagonists escaped fairly easily.

239874 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to PWL, 1, #1418 of 2060 🔗

Today, on Sunday 1st November, most people who are against lockdown think, and are being asked to believe†, that if they appeal to their MP, then the House of Commons will vote against what sounds like a fait accompli announced by Boris Johnson yesterday; to wit, the commencement of a new period of escalated lockdown in England. At this site, it is understood that it is an exception to the rule that UK Government doesn’t get its way in these regards, and MPs – corrupt officials – are like cat litter to it: shovelled in and swept away just as easily. The author really only has one thing to say about this: a free people doesn’t need to beg for birth rights: they just act in them. If a people are asking for rights to be upheld by an instrument of artifice for an elite’s control, then they shouldn’t expect rights.

239643 Ewan Duffy, 14, #1419 of 2060 🔗

Just back from a retail excursion to both B&Q and Lidl – happy to report that I wasn’t challenged over my lack of a face nappy but disappointed that I appeared to be the only person in both stores not wearing one.

I also took the opportunity to buy a pair of runners in Lidl as they have chosen to ignore the (Irish) government’s request to mixed retailers to not sell items like clothes/hardware.

239644 PWL, replying to PWL, 13, #1420 of 2060 🔗

The case against any Covid-19 vaccine is that it is superfluous. The p fizer trials confirm the superfluousness. The 90% efficacy figure is from a mere 94 test subjects. The other 43,406 trial subjects didn’t get sick (innate health is the intended victim of allopathic medicine).

UK Government’s pointless Covid-19 vaccine; the ultimate in vaccination for the sake of being vaccinated

239680 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to PWL, 3, #1421 of 2060 🔗

On a cost-benefit basis, it’s probably not worth giving everyone the vaccine, just those who were eligible for the flu vaccine previously.

What I want to know is how long will the ‘masks and metres’ nonsense go on for after they start innoculating people. You can imagine the obsessive caution. They should just repeal all restrictions the week the innoculations start.

239796 ▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to jhfreedom, 2, #1422 of 2060 🔗

Yep that won’t happen

239879 ▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Jaguarpig, 1, #1423 of 2060 🔗

And Scotland will have a different ‘exit route’ to England just to be different etc. etc.

zzzz

239646 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 39, #1424 of 2060 🔗

The one thing I will take away from the past 7months is the revelation that people in their mid eighties die

I had absolutely no idea

239650 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Cecil B, 5, #1425 of 2060 🔗

A lot of people suffered from that particular knowledge deficit

239655 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Cecil B, 11, #1426 of 2060 🔗

Are vou sure Cecil.

I thought the first recorded case ever of death in human history was in Wuhan on January 16th.

239681 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Cecil B, 9, #1427 of 2060 🔗

Yes but thanks to the marvellous Covid vaccine they will now be able to live on for a few months more in poor health and die of something much better like septicaemia or cancer. We are living in a golden age of health!

239698 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Cecil B, 5, #1428 of 2060 🔗

Death is a technical fault for which big tech and big pharma will work out a fix. We will all ultimately be Davros at best or a Dalek at worse.

239740 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Leemc23, 9, #1429 of 2060 🔗

No thanks, I’m going out disgraceful hopefully at speed on my motorbike or something equally pointless and stupid.

Who wants to live forever?

239935 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #1430 of 2060 🔗

Man, man, anybody who has seen the inside of a care home where dementia sufferers are stashed will know that there are fates far, far worse than death.And that was true before the current gangs of sadistic torturers moved in on them.

240260 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1431 of 2060 🔗

If you don’t want to live forever you could always get the new vaccine.

240294 ▶▶▶ Kev, replying to Leemc23, 1, #1432 of 2060 🔗

Don’t you mean Soros

239663 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 6, #1433 of 2060 🔗

Funny how cases are now supposedly falling. And that this is linked to immunity. It could be linked to reduced Ct levels on PCR tests.

Purely manufactured either by incompetence or given the nod

239789 ▶▶ leggy, replying to mhcp, #1434 of 2060 🔗

According to Handjob in the commons today, they’re still rising across the country.

239863 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to leggy, 1, #1435 of 2060 🔗

And he always tells the opposite of the truth, so……

239664 NorthumbrianNomad, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 2, #1436 of 2060 🔗

This advertising banner has just appeared at the top of this page, for me. Isn’t the internet wonderful.

239800 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, #1437 of 2060 🔗

There are ads on this site? Really?

I never knew that.

239831 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Ceriain, 3, #1438 of 2060 🔗

No ads on this site – all depends on what you use

240050 ▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Victoria, #1439 of 2060 🔗

I didn’t think there were; at least, I’ve never seen one. 😉

239827 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 3, #1440 of 2060 🔗

Time for a new internet home page – use DuckDuckGo. Much more reliable than others , also no adverts

239666 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 21, #1441 of 2060 🔗

Wife on the telephone talking to her cousin about the auntie who died – her cousin had not been told either and now they are having a good old gossip.

I’m earwigging.

Her cousin, who works and lives on a farm, was claiming a few weeks ago that “covid was rife everywhere” and wouldn’t listen.

Now I can hear the wife on about me, my FOIs, quoting facts, figures etc and her cousin is on the turn.

Mrs Awkward getting a bad as me.

239690 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Awkward Git, 16, #1442 of 2060 🔗

No AG. Mrs Awkward is getting as GOOD as you!

239722 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #1443 of 2060 🔗

Awww you sound like such a sweet couple!

239667 Mibi, 3, #1444 of 2060 🔗
239671 jhfreedom, replying to jhfreedom, 10, #1445 of 2060 🔗

Here is the current wording from a recent House of Commons Library Briefing Paper on contesting Fixed Penalty Notices for breaching coronavirus legislation:

“Those issued with an FPN can choose to not pay the associated fine if they do not accept guilt. Those who do not pay the fine may face criminal proceedings related to their alleged offence. Those convicted at court of a coronavirus offence are punished by way of a fine which offenders must pay. According to police data almost as many FPNs have not been paid has have been. As at 22 September 9,428 FPNs had been paid and 9,413 have not been paid. Cases involving unpaid FPNs are considered for prosecution.”

I’d be interested to know if there is any information on how the contested FPNs are being dealt with and what the prosecution rates were? If prosecutions are collapsing then enforcement would become almost impossible. Or is the information being kept from us?

239718 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to jhfreedom, 8, #1446 of 2060 🔗

Many police forces are offering ‘cautions’ to people who don’t pay

That way the cases disappear into a black hole

There have been no criminal prosecutions (except possibly a handful in Dyfed Powys who went bonkers at the start and issued thousands of tickets)

The police are issuing very few tickets these days, they are sick of it

239733 ▶▶▶ Iansn, replying to Cecil B, 2, #1447 of 2060 🔗

A caution can be offered for a criminal offence for penalties that may range from a fine to imprisonment, any FPN’s issued under Health regulations carry a fine, there is no further punishment stated in the regulations. The maximum fine can be applied if contesting. A caution stays on your record and must be disclosed, a FPN for COVID regulations is no worse than a parking fine, you wouldnt accept a caution in place of a fine for parking offences, so why would this be even considered in place of your day in court. The worst possible outcome being a fine?

239754 ▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Iansn, 2, #1448 of 2060 🔗

An FPN can also show up on an enhanced DBS check, e.g. if applying to work with vulnerable adults etc. but even then only at the discretion of the force receiving the application. And it’s certainly not a criminal record.

What I’m curious about is how the courts are dealing with the non-payers. Early on I heard that the courts were throwing a lot of these out. But maybe that’s changed.

239762 ▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Iansn, 2, #1449 of 2060 🔗

From the National Police Chiefs website:

“If an FPN is contested or not complied with within the 28 day payment period, the case becomes a matter for HM Courts and Tribunals Service following a force level review”

Clear as mud…

239926 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to jhfreedom, #1450 of 2060 🔗

Presumably it means that the fuzz debate what level of force they can inflict on you to make you pay up before the courts get involved.

239734 ▶▶▶ Snake Oil Pussy, replying to Cecil B, 4, #1451 of 2060 🔗

A “caution” is a real punishment. Unlike a FPN, it goes on your DBS record and stops you getting a job.

239678 Londo Mollari, replying to Londo Mollari, 8, #1452 of 2060 🔗

This is a tender request from the Medical and Healthcare Regulatory Agency (MHRA) for a software tool:

The MHRA urgently seeks an Artificial Intelligence (AI) software tool to process the expected high volume of Covid-19 vaccine Adverse Drug Reaction (ADRs) and ensure that no details from the ADRs’ reaction text are missed.

https://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:506291-2020:TEXT:EN:HTML&src=0

239717 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Londo Mollari, 3, #1453 of 2060 🔗

Wow! as Sopel might tweet. It looks genuine…

So ADRs (e.g. “Mr. Johnson complained of brain fog, inability to focus on the matter in hand and bejng obsessed by increasingly fantastical notions) will be forwarded by GPs and hospitals, for analysis by a no doubt malfunctioning AI system. Surely there must be an off the shelf system available?

239784 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Londo Mollari, 2, #1454 of 2060 🔗

It’s the award, not the tender. But yeah, another couple of million down the toilet. Obviously expecting some trade.

239797 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Londo Mollari, 4, #1455 of 2060 🔗

“Hi, I’me Emma. Are you calling to register an adverse reasction to your recent COVID Vaccination? Say YES after the tone or say I need medical assistance immediately”.

Beeeeepppp.

239822 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Londo Mollari, 4, #1456 of 2060 🔗

So you pump the population full of a vaccine that is not tested properly for side effects that could include permanent disability or death. Then you get some software to log all the side effects these guinea pigs are displaying. Then you do a graph and tell the public is is a success. What Can Possibly Go Wrong?

239851 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Londo Mollari, #1457 of 2060 🔗

WOW!!!

239928 ▶▶ annie, replying to Londo Mollari, #1458 of 2060 🔗

I’d call that a smoking gun.

239688 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 11, #1459 of 2060 🔗

“PCR is not a test but a D/RNA copying machine” DrThomas Binder.

If only our MPs realised this.

239770 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Margaret, 7, #1460 of 2060 🔗

It’s a technique, not a test.

239691 James Marker, replying to James Marker, 15, #1461 of 2060 🔗

Interesting that the Pfizer vaccine has been tested mostly on healthy adults, under the age of 55. What is the betting the efficacy of this vaccine drops significantly below 90% when given to the elderly? Interesting also that the reported side effects are fatigue, headache and chills. Those are exactly the symptoms I experienced when I contracted Covid-19 over a month ago. Why would healthy people choose to be vaccinated against a disease that causes no more discomfort than the reported side effects of the vaccine? It’s not clear to me how the long-term safety of an mRNA vaccine can be established in such a short trial. People have legitimate concerns about safety and reports that certain sections of the establishment want to criminalize the sharing of “anti-vaccination myths” is deeply disturbing.

239732 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to James Marker, 8, #1462 of 2060 🔗

Did Toby question why people should be vaccinated against such a mild condition? I did try to read the report above, not entirely successfully, and didn’t spot this obvious question being called – versus the profits various people make from it

239954 ▶▶ Marialta, replying to James Marker, 2, #1463 of 2060 🔗

I read a while back that there was a shortage of elderly people willing to volunteer – funny how this has been ignored in the latest news. It’s a marvel how this is being spun as a solution. Once again I say it’s no better than Lemsip.

239695 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 25, #1464 of 2060 🔗

My exercise today took me to the City of London.

Unlike back in March, the City is less of a ghost town than it was. Schools were open and ditto certain offices, however, its still not the same as it was before this madness took over.

The cycle lanes were a total eyesore and it was funny to see even cyclists ignoring them. Wonder what will happen to them if we ever get back to the old normal.

One thing that’s for sure is that unless we go back to the old normal, I can see the City collapsing and taking the rest of the country down with them. Is this what people really want?

239700 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Bart Simpson, 9, #1465 of 2060 🔗

If it saves just one life it is worth it, apparently.

239715 ▶▶▶ Iansn, replying to captainbeefheart, 12, #1466 of 2060 🔗

All life is precious, certain colours more so except the old, Brexit voters the people who dont wear masks or believe in vaccination their lives aren’t worth a shit according to a lot of people on Facebook apparently

239746 ▶▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Iansn, 8, #1467 of 2060 🔗

You can live as long as you agree with me and everything I say. That pretty much covers where the human race has got to.

239741 ▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to captainbeefheart, 9, #1468 of 2060 🔗

“While one person is vulnerable we are all vulnerable”. That’s the official line. What absolute tosh.

239818 ▶▶▶▶ Alice, replying to Leemc23, 5, #1469 of 2060 🔗

This is the ideology of collectivism.

239884 ▶▶▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Alice, 2, #1470 of 2060 🔗

yes collective misery for all.

239944 ▶▶▶▶ Marialta, replying to Leemc23, 4, #1471 of 2060 🔗

I despise this overuse of the word vulnerable. What does it actually mean?

In a recent podcast Frank Furedi (sociology Professor at Canterbury) said how, until the 1980s,‘vulnerable’ was only used to refer to bridges etc. It says a lot about how fragile we have become.

239880 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to captainbeefheart, 2, #1472 of 2060 🔗

They won’t be saying that once their pensions and savings, many of them tied to prime real estate in the City becomes as worthless as Zimbabwean dollars.

239697 John P, 43, #1473 of 2060 🔗

“The Prime Minister said on Monday that official guidance will shortly be issued on how universities should manage the mass movement of students at the end of term in a way that does not risk spreading the virus around the country.”

This bloody man’s a nutter. He wants locking up before he can do any more damage to this country.

I’m fucking sick of it.

239701 Angryphon of Tunbridge Wells, replying to Angryphon of Tunbridge Wells, 9, #1474 of 2060 🔗

Currently working in Care Home all residents despite their condition have end of life drugs prescribed and ready to go….literally.

239716 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Angryphon of Tunbridge Wells, 6, #1475 of 2060 🔗

So does that mean they will not even he seen by a GP if they become unwell in any way? Who decides when those drugs start to be dispensed? Sorry if that should be obvious, but I just can’t get my head around this

239721 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Charlie Blue, 4, #1476 of 2060 🔗

Who decides? Harold Shipman

239738 ▶▶▶ Angryphon of Tunbridge Wells, replying to Charlie Blue, 5, #1477 of 2060 🔗

Blank check from GP as a Registered Nurse it’s my discretion depending upon the possible interpretation of clinical condition.Kill the person kill the virus? Familv get usual script.

239767 ▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Angryphon of Tunbridge Wells, #1478 of 2060 🔗

What do we mean here by end of life drugs? Painkillers or poisons?

239773 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to leggy, 2, #1479 of 2060 🔗

Lots of Morpine

239756 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Charlie Blue, #1480 of 2060 🔗

So if your interpretation is that covid is not the problem can you offer other treatment, e.g. antibiotics? I’m trying to understand what this means.

239724 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Angryphon of Tunbridge Wells, 3, #1481 of 2060 🔗

Who have you told? Not entirely sure what sort of information Toby is still interested in but hopefully he’ll want to hear this.

239706 John P, replying to John P, 8, #1482 of 2060 🔗

“Cummings Clashes With Whitty”
or the Devil meets Satan.

239736 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to John P, #1483 of 2060 🔗

Where’s that from?

239739 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to OKUK, 1, #1484 of 2060 🔗

above the line

239743 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to OKUK, #1485 of 2060 🔗

It’s a headline on today’s update.

239713 Leemc23, replying to Leemc23, 23, #1486 of 2060 🔗

Started my working day with a MS Teams meeting. 7 out of the next 8 hours were on other MS teams meetings. The other hour involved a walk to school and the chemist. I counted 12 occasions there and back when other people jumped into the road to avoid me passing within 2 meters (although often it was nowhere near that distance). I am amazed people are not being killed by f@cling cars the way they jump off the kerb into the road without ever looking.

The chemist was fun. Mask land and sick people. Every one seemed to be buying lemsip or paracetamol. Poor chemist and his staff ragged up all day every day, they must think this is a nonsense too right ?

But honestly the jumping in the road has wound me up today. It’s so daft. I am sure that Social Distancing was never actually meant to mean this….

239725 ▶▶ Biggles, replying to Leemc23, 6, #1487 of 2060 🔗

Had a similar experience this afternoon walking into town. Passed two couples heading in the opposite direction who were walking down the middle of the road. First time I’ve seen that since the first lockdown.

239752 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Biggles, 3, #1488 of 2060 🔗

This is a very common thing round my way; mostly African women. Not sure if it’s a security thing (back home they get dragged into alleys, or something), but it’s been a thing here in London for a long time, long before Covid.

239940 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Ceriain, 1, #1489 of 2060 🔗

There was a Guardian article about this practice – the author reckoned that it is common practice among those in poorer areas (in other words, those who the Guardian regard as oppressed). His thinking was that by walking down the centre of the road, forcing cars to slow down, they are exercising the one bit of power they have.

Funnily enough, I moved to an area 3 years ago that is in the early stages of gentrification (spotted the opportunity for a cheaper house!). One of the first things I noticed was this practice of walking on the road and not the footpath.

239727 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Leemc23, 12, #1490 of 2060 🔗

Whatever happened to the notion that you had to be within 2 metres of an infected person for 15 minutes to have a reasonable chance of catching it from them? I think the 2 metres got talked up to 10 and the 15 minutes got talked down to half a second.

239737 ▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Edward, 9, #1491 of 2060 🔗

I know. It’s people being so dumb. We had similar bull at work when it was “one way stair cases” as they were not over 2 meters wide ! How quickly do you pass people on the stairs ? Goodness it’s exhausting how dumb it all is.

As for using Teams all day every day. I personally hate it and never want to work from home full time ever again. This is bollocks.

239755 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Leemc23, 3, #1492 of 2060 🔗

Same, my last job was full time WFH after March and I never want to do that ever again. Online university is similaly bad but campus is now basically zealotry hell.

239753 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Edward, 3, #1493 of 2060 🔗

How many people actually know about the 15 minutes?
I cannot remember that being part of their famous slogans.

239778 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Silke David, 2, #1494 of 2060 🔗

I don’t think the 15 minutes was in government guidance, but it was suggested as a reasonable estimate by some people, applying to normal behaviour – if someone coughed or sneezed all over you the time factor didn’t apply.

239793 ▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Silke David, 5, #1495 of 2060 🔗

It’s what the app uses. It measures how long you’ve been in contact with someone at a distance of less than 2 metres. If you hit the 15 minute mark, you get a notification to self-isolate, which you can freely ignore as they have no idea who you are. 😉

239766 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Edward, 4, #1496 of 2060 🔗

Indeed. It kills the idea of masking in shops. No one spends 15 minutes near anyone else while wandering around Sainsbury’s even if there’s a queue at the tills

239777 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to kf99, 7, #1497 of 2060 🔗

Do you remember the good old days, when people went into supermarkets and, apart from a bit of polite distancing, just acted normally? That was at the height of the infection!

239936 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to RickH, 2, #1498 of 2060 🔗

God how I miss those days, when I could just go supermarket normally, without a cunting mask, during lockdown 1. Were beyond hope when I’m fondling remembering the first lockdown 🤣

239964 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, replying to Mark II, 1, #1499 of 2060 🔗

OMG, you’re right! At the so-called height of things I was out and about, in shops, never wearing a mask, and still chatting with strangers. Ahhhh, the good old days.

239855 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Edward, 1, #1500 of 2060 🔗

All through the summer, the pig dictator was saying the 6-foot rule would be scrapped. Never happened. What short memories sheeples have. Two metres good, metres plus muzzles BETTER, baah baah..

239742 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Leemc23, 3, #1501 of 2060 🔗

I’ve had this several times; my daughter (student) says it happens all the time “they step off the pavement and walk round parked cars to avoid me, Dad. It’s like a little dance they do.”.

I got someone unmasked who did this to me the other day, very strange.

239774 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Leemc23, 3, #1502 of 2060 🔗

If the silly buggers want to jump into the road – that’s their right. Just don’t expect me to deviate from my track other than I would normally do.

239776 ▶▶ John P, replying to Leemc23, 2, #1503 of 2060 🔗

You’d think people would know better after all this time.

239723 Voz 0db, replying to Voz 0db, 1, #1504 of 2060 🔗

Is the Pfizer Vaccine a Breakthrough?

Of course it is… It will artificially infected many millions, if not billions of uman animals. Some might develop serious side effects others might die, BUT THAT’S LIFE!

It will also end the massive waste of resources still going on with the chemical reaction PCR…

A wonderful FUTURE will emerge with this miraculous vaccine.

239731 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Voz 0db, 4, #1505 of 2060 🔗

You’re a bit of a fun-sucker, a mood-hoover, aren’t you, Voz?

239824 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to OKUK, 2, #1506 of 2060 🔗

.

240157 ▶▶▶▶ Voz 0db, replying to Cheezilla, #1507 of 2060 🔗

It that the magic cure for CUVID?!

240156 ▶▶▶ Voz 0db, replying to OKUK, #1508 of 2060 🔗

Uman existence is fun!

239728 Ceriain, replying to Ceriain, 5, #1509 of 2060 🔗

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54882091

Mr Hancock said children would not be vaccinated.

Check the video; his tie is a mess. I wouldn’t advise watching the video; it’s all bullshit. 😉

DT live feed is saying:

Additionally, children would not be required to have the vaccine and it would remain voluntary for adults.

I can’t find where he actually says either of these things though; did anyone actually see the whole debate?

239735 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Ceriain, 6, #1510 of 2060 🔗

He said, quite explicitly, in HoC earlier ‘this is a vaccine for adults’. I did not watch the whole debate, so the matter of it being voluntary must have been in response to a later question.

239744 ▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 7, #1511 of 2060 🔗

Would this be voluntary, but if you don’t have it, you won’t be able to buy things, sell things, work, own property, travel, vote……

239761 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to captainbeefheart, 9, #1512 of 2060 🔗

Of course, they will try every trick in the book. The Pfizer vaccine looks like it will be pretty difficult to distribute, let alone administer. That is assuming the UK gets the contracted vaccine – it’s manufactured in Belgium, so what happens if there is no Brexit deal? The second vaccine on the list – Oxford Vaccine/AstraZeneca – has already had two pauses for ‘unrelated’ neurological conditions, and the other two front-runners are much further back. By the time there is a vaccine to roll out, pretty much everyone would have had the disease, so what’s the point?

239769 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #1513 of 2060 🔗

Depends if they can manufacture a “scary third wave” to try to sell it.

239786 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to DRW, #1514 of 2060 🔗

Shhhh!

239810 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1515 of 2060 🔗

Means to an end…..

240001 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1516 of 2060 🔗

Yes, agree with last sentence. Virus is doing its own thing. I bet is disappears just as vaccine is ‘ready’. Can’t see brexit being an issue. Government just over rides any paperwork to import from belgium

240073 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Bumble, #1517 of 2060 🔗

It doesn’t disappear completely but becomes endemic. That happened around May. That was it.

239780 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #1518 of 2060 🔗

Thanks, TT. I couldn’t bring myself to watch all of it, or the twat Tories congratulating him on doing a great job. Yeugh!

239815 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Ceriain, 3, #1519 of 2060 🔗

With the exception – again – of Sir Desmond. Handsy reminds me so much of C in Spectre. He eventually met his match in Ralph Fiennes, and a bitter end. I don’t think we have long to wait, and when he goes, there will be a loud cheer.

239996 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Ceriain, #1520 of 2060 🔗

So why all this utter bollox in schools then, if children aren’t at risk?

240021 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to A. Contrarian, #1521 of 2060 🔗

Might pass it on and kill granny!

239730 Voz 0db, #1522 of 2060 🔗

How Will Students Get Home For Christmas?

Make sure that before the massive PCR [waste] ALL those “students” are vaccinated against Influenza…

239745 Smelly Melly, replying to Smelly Melly, 19, #1523 of 2060 🔗

Played about 30 seconds of Matt Hancock’s interview on Talk Radio, before I switched him off. The patronising little twat came across as if he was addressing 3 year olds. How I hate the Conservatives and I use to be a loyal voter.

240020 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Smelly Melly, 1, #1524 of 2060 🔗

Pity we can’t literally switch him off.

239748 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 8, #1525 of 2060 🔗
239814 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #1526 of 2060 🔗

Thank TT. So they are all on the take.

We will be the only ones losing our jobs, losing our businesses, decimated pensions and then pay the massive tax hikes that are on the way

239749 Rosie, replying to Rosie, #1527 of 2060 🔗

Since I am ‘very bad’ at technology, please will someone explain this to me. I did try it but nothing happened. What do I use control F on ???

Cheezilla
I posted a list with emails today. Use control F to find me and then the list.

239759 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Rosie, #1528 of 2060 🔗

The control (CTRL) plus the F key brings up a text search option (find) in a Window (works in many applications too). You can search for your own user name here for example.

239794 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to leggy, 1, #1529 of 2060 🔗

Oh wow! That’s clever ….. thanks everyone 🙂

239805 ▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Rosie, 2, #1530 of 2060 🔗

Bear in mind that the Ctrl+F thingy will only find text that has actually been loaded into your browser.

The comments on this site and loaded in chunks, so unless you repeatedly jump to the bottom of the page until no more comments load, your browser will not contain all of the day’s comments, and so Ctrl+F might not find the thing you are looking for.

Part of the reason I created Panscepticon was to address this problem.

Panscepticon news pages load all comments in one go, so Ctrl+F will always have access to all of the comments without you having to jump to the bottom of the page to make them load.

The caveat is, Panscepticon is only updated every few hours. So if you’re looking for text that was posted five minutes ago, you won’t find it. You can find out when a particular page was last updated by checking the “Scraped” timestamp at the top of each news page.

Please note that the search box on Pansception is still a waste of space. I don’t seem to be able to get DuckDuckGo to index the site, so search results always come up empty. I’m looking into creating a master index page, sort of like the index at the back of a book, so at least you can use the Ctrl+F trick to find stuff there. However, it will likely only be a word index, so searches for phrases will still fail.

I did consider creating one monster page with all comments on it, but that would be 27 MiB in size and would have 250,000 comments. Performance would suck.

239820 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Mabel Cow, #1531 of 2060 🔗

Wow we have some clever people on this site
I suppose Toby can’t be persuaded to advertise this thing you created?
Thank you very much for that Mabel

239846 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Rosie, 7, #1532 of 2060 🔗

I may suggest that to him once I have pimped it up with some more features.

For example, I’m going to add a page that shows every hyperlink ever posted, arranged according to the number of likes the parent post received. This should give us a useful “hot links” index.

I also intend to create comment digests by author, so there would be (say) a page dedicated to “The words of Awkward Git”. This arrangement would be useful for finding stuff that you remember another user saying, but can’t remember on which day they said it.

239932 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Mabel Cow, #1533 of 2060 🔗

These features would be extremely useful I must say!

240271 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mabel Cow, #1534 of 2060 🔗

Awesome MC. Thanks so much for an amazing resource.

239763 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Rosie, #1535 of 2060 🔗

It was for yesterday’s BTL to find the list of MPs who voted no. I asked Toby to include it in the newsletter so your problem is solved today.

For future reference, control F will bring up a little box at bottom left. Type in what you’re looking for and use the up and down vs to navigate.

239883 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Cheezilla, #1536 of 2060 🔗

Next question – I just copied the list of MPs addresses and dumped it into my send box – is there a quick way to take out all the names and spaces? have I got to go through and edit out all 39 names?

240274 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Rosie, #1537 of 2060 🔗

I did each one separately. Clicked on their address, pasted in my email, added in their name. Done. Took abou 30 minutes to do them all.

239764 ▶▶ John P, replying to Rosie, #1538 of 2060 🔗

As leggy says. The “Ctrl” key is the bottom bottom leftmost key on a keyboard. Press it and F at the same time.

239787 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Rosie, 1, #1539 of 2060 🔗

whilst on this page, press control key and f key at same time.. this is search function. you will see a little pop up to type the search …i.e cheezilla.. and then they will all be highlighted and you can click on next (i.e the down arrow in the pop up until you find the correct post

239812 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Rosie, 4, #1540 of 2060 🔗

Not to be confused with the CTRL-F on Matt Hancock’s keyboard which stands for Control & Fear.

239849 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Rosie, 2, #1541 of 2060 🔗

You can search for terms and phrases within the comments section. Pressing CTRL and F brings up a search box and it links to all times that term has been found:

239750 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 15, #1542 of 2060 🔗

Walk to park today coincided with school exodus time. Depressing to see how many schoolkids were sporting masks on their way home. Several parents too.

Park was much more normal, though one couple did walk in the mud so they could distance from me. Idiots!

Very scary sight of an oldish couple sporting not only really thick plastic visors but also goggles!!!! Behind all the perspex, I think they looked oriental. Weird anyway!

239751 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Cheezilla, #1543 of 2060 🔗

Ah the very person – what’s all this control f thing?

239791 ▶▶▶ LS99, replying to Rosie, #1544 of 2060 🔗

Control F doesn’t do anything to my computer – I’ve got a MacBook?

239795 ▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to LS99, #1545 of 2060 🔗

more explanations a few comments down, LS99

239760 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #1546 of 2060 🔗

Makes you wonder if it will be goggles next because masks weren’t enough. Plus ear plugs just to make sure.

239782 ▶▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to DRW, 9, #1547 of 2060 🔗

If you’re bunging up all the entry possibilities, why stop there?

239806 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to James Leary #KBF, 1, #1548 of 2060 🔗

[Smile]

239929 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to James Leary #KBF, 2, #1549 of 2060 🔗

Two pairs of underwear to be worn going forward to stop flatulence spreading COVID!

239951 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, replying to Ewan Duffy, 3, #1550 of 2060 🔗

That’s coming next for sure. Our top public health officer is now recommending 3-layer masks. Gotta make sure we well and truly suffocate.

240040 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, 1, #1551 of 2060 🔗

Corona marshalls will be authorised to check that you are complying. /sarc

240065 ▶▶▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Ewan Duffy, 2, #1552 of 2060 🔗

All persons must wear clean underwear at all times. To enforce this, underwear must be worn on the outside.

(Copyright Woody Allen).

239781 ▶▶ theanalyst, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #1553 of 2060 🔗

We live outside a Secondary School and I am pleased to report less than 5% wearing masks on the way out of School. Most kids are obviously oblivious to this nonsense and happy chatting in large groups in the sunshine. Phew!

At the other side of the spectrum its the parents at the Infant School down at the other end of the street who are the worst. They look like they would happily sleep in their masks. Yuk!

239785 ▶▶ Suzyv, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #1554 of 2060 🔗

That’s comes as no surprise. I was at an airport 2 weeks ago. Lost of people with mask below nose, on chin then suddenly a group in masks, plastic visors and full hazmat suit. When I looked more closely all Chinese.

240267 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Suzyv, #1555 of 2060 🔗

Scary!

239758 Cecil B, 1, #1556 of 2060 🔗
239799 John P, replying to John P, 26, #1557 of 2060 🔗

Visited a post office cum newsagent today. Not good. Shop was crowded and all – excepting myself – were masked up. At one point the woman on the till for the newsagent part told a bloke to queue the other side. I was then confronted by this masked dick who wanted me to also move.

I could have hit the shit, “I heard what she said – you don’t work here!” I was so mad. Being asked (told) to move by someone I despise. Presumably the masked wanker considered me beneath him.

Walking back to my car I mused that the worst aspect of the mask wearing is that it symbolises trust, trust in this wretched government, Johnson, Whitty, van Tam and the rest of the dishonest cabal.

I’m not usually in such a foul mood, but I had found out earlier that my local print shop was needlessly shut to customers. “I can’t” was his plaintive reply when I asked him to print something for me. “It’s okay, it’s not your fault,” I assured him, but there was an air of wimpish complicity in his voice. Pathetic.

239866 ▶▶ annie, replying to John P, 10, #1558 of 2060 🔗

The nappy doesn’t symbolise trust, it symbolises feckin’ stupid.

240060 ▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to John P, 4, #1559 of 2060 🔗

Wearing a mask makes you complicit in a lie, or lies. A collaborator, or accomplice, if you like to the crimes committed by the government.

239801 Rosie, replying to Rosie, 10, #1560 of 2060 🔗

OK – vaccinations again ….

What’s going on behind the scenes. As far as I can see neither Julia H-B nor Toby/Will here (above the line) are sounding alarm bells. Am I misreading what they say? Am I being unduly sceptical? Or is there something exceeding sinister about these vaccines?

A friend of mine has been listening to JHB and is inclined to the ‘it’s not too bad’ side of the fence while I am on the ‘this is the worst thing evva’ side of things.

Is my friend complacent or am I panicking unnecessarily?

239804 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Rosie, 6, #1561 of 2060 🔗

Don’t let your guard down

239807 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Victoria, #1562 of 2060 🔗

What would I say to my friend then? He’s a full-on sceptic with most things.

239808 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Rosie, 6, #1563 of 2060 🔗

I think it’s simply that everyone’s so exhausted and brought down by it all that any indication that we can get back to normal even if it’s by vaccine seems like good news. I feel a bit like that too but I will never take the vaccine.

239817 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Achilles, 3, #1564 of 2060 🔗

… I agree Achilles, the exhaustion and buffeting and demoralisation is entirely deliberate, and one specific purpose seems to be vaccination. The sense of being pushed into it is one of my reasons for being hyper suspicious, even without looking into any of the detail.

Is this Pfizer vaccine an RNA one?

239816 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Rosie, 3, #1565 of 2060 🔗

What’s with the two doses? Conditioning us to accept regular vaccinations? Making sure we don’t run away with the idea that this is ‘it’? I reckon so.

But what’s worse: an annual vaccination or having to test yourself every single day for the rest of your life? Or surprise visits from soldiers on the doorstep probing your nasal/brain barrier?

239825 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #1566 of 2060 🔗

I don’t want any of them. If those are the choices then clearly the vaccination is extremely bad as well.

Btw – do all the tests probe the nasal/brain barrier? If so what’s all