2020-11-11

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/11/11/latest-news-190/
Published2020-11-11T04:35:16
Last updated2020-11-11T10:16:31
Scraped2020-12-20T20:18:10
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240432 Chris John, replying to Chris John, 1, #1 of 1790 🔗

Dayum

240557 ▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to Chris John, 3, #2 of 1790 🔗

YEAH BOI! Enjoy our latest CV19 podcast here BRUV!
https://therealnormalpodcast.buzzsprout.com/

241154 ▶▶ PWL, replying to Chris John, -1, #3 of 1790 🔗

“Was Vaccine Announcement Delayed to Help Biden Win?” Like the vaccine was a positive thing. But wait: “As I said yesterday, I give a cautious welcome to the new vaccine”. Ironically, in a story that uses “snake oil” in the title.

And now, empowered supposedly by the coin that you people give it, this site is hiring.

Astonishing.

The Oxford-AstraZeneca trial illness: one that only appears to have been caused by the vaccine?

241294 ▶▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to PWL, 2, #4 of 1790 🔗

Hello – tory Chief whip has 203 proxy vote for MPs. Democracy dead

Beyond Crucial Update on Viral Issue – and Lockdown “Science”!
11 Nov 2020
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mboEkVl9ooc

Title says it all. Please share this one as widely as possible, especially if you are interesting in saving the society of Ireland, the UK and Europe! (If not the world )
Ivor Cummins

241552 ▶▶▶▶ S1722, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #5 of 1790 🔗

I was really alarmed to read this one. This is my MP (Stuart Andrew – Deputy Chief Whip, not Chief Whip), and I wasn’t aware of the extent of his proxy votes when I wrote to him before the lockdown vote. I’ve since been fobbed off with a generic response around protecting Our Beloved NHS. Haven’t responded to him yet, but this makes it all the more important. Any suggestions are more than welcome!

But surely others need to write to their own MPs, demanding to know why they’ve delegated their votes en masse to a member of the Executive!?!

240433 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 12, #6 of 1790 🔗

I would say that the statement you posted yesterday from Barry Norris pretty much points to the likeliest scenario being that Pfizer did indeed withhold the vaccine until after the election. And i don’t buy the excuse of the board receiving the results on Thursday. How long before Thursday have those results been available?

240812 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Cristi.Neagu, -17, #7 of 1790 🔗

The point is not the irrelevance of the demise of the Tosser Trump who never had the popular vote in a split nation, anyway, and who would whine, anyway, on any fabricated grounds, anyway.

The point is that there is no way that a vaccine can be announced as ‘safe’ in this timescale, and needs to be treated with due suspicion.

240834 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 31, #8 of 1790 🔗

That’s “the point” for you, because you hate Trump both personally and politically.

But for others who don’t share that position and support a Trump win either because they prefer him to Biden generally, or because they see a Trump win as vital in the struggle against masking and coronapanicking, or just because they hate to see exactly the kind of establishment/big tech/mainstream media types who ave pushed the coronapanic on us win yet again via their massive propaganda spend and media bias, the point made by CristiNeagu is “the point”.

240971 ▶▶▶▶ Jpeg, replying to Mark, 13, #9 of 1790 🔗

I’m not a Trump supporter but based on what I know of his opposition and the immense amount of consolidated power they have, I would say beyond doubt that this was deliberate.

241020 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Mark, 30, #10 of 1790 🔗

Agree.

I was dismayed when Trump was elected in 2016.

I was dismayed when Biden was elected in 2020.

I gradually changed my mind about Trump when I recognised that he was against the US establishment and that it was an ugly, corrupt beast.

He tried to fight the Deep State and the MIC machine.

His anti-globalist, anti-woke, anti-war and anti-climate change, positions I also liked.

I’m not sure he quite had enough to kill the monster, and he made some terrible mistakes, but he gave it his best shot.

241344 ▶▶▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to John P, 3, #11 of 1790 🔗

After 8 years of Obama and Biden the democrats thought Hilly Clinton was their best answer, after 4 years of trump the majority of the US seem to think the candidate who was not as good as Clinton is now the answer.

Funny old world.

241421 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to John P, 2, #12 of 1790 🔗

Trump did make all sorts of mistake, for sure, but terrible ones? What do you mean?

241631 ▶▶▶▶▶ MutzNutz, replying to John P, -6, #13 of 1790 🔗

Yawn. Yet another Trump teen bopper. SAD!

241629 ▶▶▶▶ MutzNutz, replying to Mark, -5, #14 of 1790 🔗

Yawn. Yet another Trump teen bopper. SAD!

240839 ▶▶▶ Hieronimusb, replying to RickH, 8, #15 of 1790 🔗

The point is that there is no way that a vaccine can be announced as *effective* and ‘safe’ in this timescale, and needs to be treated with due suspicion. I strongly agree, unless of course the ‘effective’ component is jettisoned out of political necessity to promote a safe (if ineffective) remedy for their massive overreaction to a not very dangerous – for the majority – pathogen.

240898 ▶▶▶ Borisbullshit, replying to RickH, 14, #16 of 1790 🔗

‘Tosser Trump’…so much for your calls for people on here not to be political Rick. Practise what you preach for once.

241228 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to RickH, 10, #17 of 1790 🔗

Rick, do you consider it to be a coincidence that the political forces most opposed to Trump are the same political forces, which are most actively pushing all things covid.

241326 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to calchas, 4, #18 of 1790 🔗

Rick hasn’t thought about that, obviously.

242014 ▶▶▶▶▶ stevie119, replying to Rowan, #19 of 1790 🔗

Less thought – more like emotional, knee-jerk reaction.

241257 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to RickH, 4, #20 of 1790 🔗

Leaving aside what you say about Trump, you are of course correct in what you say. The vaccine is both rushed and unnecessary, a very dangerous combination.

241418 ▶▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to RickH, 5, #22 of 1790 🔗

Interesting how all anti-Trump people keep mentioning the popular vote like it matters at all… almost like you all read the same garbage produced by the same propaganda machine…

241626 ▶▶▶ Sceptical Lefty, replying to RickH, #23 of 1790 🔗

Really don’t get why some can’t see through Trump who has had no strategy to speak of. Certainly not the Great Barrington Declaration as that requires good health care and benefits for the vulnerable.

241677 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Sceptical Lefty, 1, #24 of 1790 🔗

The primary responsibility for public health is with the States and not the President. I would agree Trump could have presented a more coherent approach, but he is in a very tricky position. In the context of the USA , an attempt by the US president to implement the GBD would be a political disaster.

241987 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to RickH, 2, #25 of 1790 🔗

And you say this, KNOWING how dangerous the opposition bunch are. That’s what I call true blind ignorance.

240434 JudgeMental, replying to JudgeMental, 10, #26 of 1790 🔗

It’s Easier to Fool People Than to Convince Them That They Have Been Fooled.
Mark Twain

Did Mark Twain ever say that or have you been fooled?

240485 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to JudgeMental, 11, #27 of 1790 🔗

“It is easier to fool the people, than to convince them they have been fooled.
No man’s life, liberty, and property are safe while the legislature is in session.”

240435 NorthumbrianNomad, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 42, #28 of 1790 🔗

VACCINE ANNOUNCEMENT A SHOT IN THE HEAD FOR LIBERTY

241006 ▶▶ right2question, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 2, #29 of 1790 🔗

those that promote these sorts of ideas don’t realise that whilst they believe they are in a safe castle of power and arrogance, they are actually promoting a path that will in the end find it’s way to their door too.

240436 Nsklent, replying to Nsklent, 89, #30 of 1790 🔗

Ok, it’s good news there is an opposition group forming, ie the CRG. However, the fact they are still calling this a ‘deadly disease’, ( survival rate of 99.96% does not equate to deadly) makes me question how well informed they are. Considering the apparent lack of knowledge by MPs, if the responses recorded on the comments section is anything to go by, I wonder how well informed the members of this group are. Calling a seasonal respiratory virus deadly, the average age of death 82, and equating it to illnesses such as cancers which affect all age groups, seriously makes me doubt their competence to be any serious opposition to the government’s and SAGE propoganda machine.

240439 ▶▶ paulito, replying to Nsklent, 25, #31 of 1790 🔗

Agree. If they parrot this misinformation about how “deadly” this supposedly unprecedented virus is, doesn’t this somewhat undermine any criticism of the government’s response to it.

240730 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to paulito, 31, #32 of 1790 🔗

It is politically toxic to say that the virus is not really dangerous. Even if it’s true. This is why the world seems completely and utterly mad. Our entire society, the plans for the future – everything has been reorganised around one gigantic fraudulent idea: that the virus is really dangerous.

If we all have to pretend something that isn’t true is true, then we all go mad.

240975 ▶▶▶▶ Borisbullshit, replying to stewart, 16, #33 of 1790 🔗

Its the same with the ‘climate emergency’ fiction. Unless someone is willing to agree this nonsense they cannot be accepted in polite circles. I wonder how many people have left dinner parties before they had the main course for things like this! Human beings are a deeply flawed species…the tendency for herd behaviour and membership of the tribe is very powerful. Most people are simply too weak to stand up to it…..maybe that applies to our 50 MPs.

241627 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sceptical Lefty, replying to Borisbullshit, -16, #34 of 1790 🔗

Oh dear…you can be sceptical about lockdowns without embracing right wing fantasy about climate change denial

241789 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Borisbullshit, replying to Sceptical Lefty, 11, #35 of 1790 🔗

Oh dear you believe it all if you want but its the same forces behind it you will find.

241334 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to paulito, 5, #36 of 1790 🔗

Yes it does undermine criticism of the government and CRG sounds rather like “controlled opposition.” Now where have we heard that before.

241742 ▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to paulito, 2, #37 of 1790 🔗

Controlled opposition?

240443 ▶▶ Sally, replying to Nsklent, 35, #38 of 1790 🔗

Unfortunately, this is a problem with the Barrington Declaration as well. OK they oppose lockdowns – great. But they never challenge the assertion that this is a deadly disease, and I think this is one of the reasons they’re not making any headway.

240662 ▶▶▶ Motke, replying to Sally, #39 of 1790 🔗

But it would appear to be a deadly disease for the very elderly and those with co-morbities.

240704 ▶▶▶▶ Sally, replying to Motke, 17, #40 of 1790 🔗

Probably no more deadly for those people than Influenza A type H3N2 which is dominant in bad flu seasons. The data is clouded by the “kitchen sink” treatment given to patients early this year, including excess use of mechanical ventilation.

240735 ▶▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Sally, 18, #41 of 1790 🔗

Even if it is more deadly, which I genuinely believe it is for older people, it’s not THAT much more deadly.

So the virus is deadly. Just not THAT deadly. It’s that difference in danger that is being exaggerated and exploited to transform our entire society

241679 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to stewart, 4, #42 of 1790 🔗

The virus does kill. Yes. Sometimes. Unexpectedly. There are other factors that appear to contribute to – say – the cytokine storm. A close relative – a pathologist – lost an overweight colleague and friend earlier in the year. As he was ‘getting better’ under hospital care. Because they couldn’t do an autopsy then – they couldn’t work out what happened. But it’s not killing vast numbers of us – where are the bodies? It does make you really think about what the devil is going on and why. Many of us have our own depressing views on this.

241033 ▶▶▶▶▶ right2question, replying to Sally, 7, #43 of 1790 🔗

and that figures are still ‘with’ and ‘assumed’, thrown out of hospital, not admitted to hospital, no ressuc push, lack of appropriate treatment inc vitamin d zinc, vit c hydroxychloroquine, lack of fresh air and movement, and if tested there’s the false positive rate and the massive impact of isolation/deprivation of warm smiles hugs family visits, whole life changing for them – people should be held accountable for the inhuman neglect !!!!

241141 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ sam, replying to right2question, 5, #44 of 1790 🔗

so true . and the lack of fresh air, visits with family and friends, those are the things we need for good health and they have taken it away from us so glad there’s rebellion . we need more rebellion. so glad to find it here .

240940 ▶▶▶▶ Ed Turnbull, replying to Motke, 20, #45 of 1790 🔗

This ‘deadly disease’ narrative – for a pathogen with a better than 99% survival rate – really grinds my gums. Want to know what’s really deadly? 100% fatal in fact. Being mortal . But most people seem unwilling to accept that uncomfortable little truth. And I don’t see a vaccine for mortality coming over the horizon any time soon.

240772 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Sally, 2, #46 of 1790 🔗

Agree. Appeals to nobody. I much prefer the Belgian letter, docs4opendebate

241019 ▶▶▶ right2question, replying to Sally, 4, #47 of 1790 🔗

and this seems to be the case with all the epidemiologists that i have listened to, however much saner they are, there’s still that sort of obsession with dangerousness for instance even with tegnell in sweden

241239 ▶▶▶ Jane in France, replying to Sally, 8, #48 of 1790 🔗

The Barrington Declaration also don’t emphasise the fact that this is a treatable disease, something of which there is much more awareness among sceptics in France. Incidentally, an ICU doctor in Belgium, Dr Pascale Sacré, was sacked for talking about that very thing. Another ICU doctor in France, Dr Louis Fouché, is also speaking out, about treatment and triage, specifically, and calling it madness to sack an ICU doctor who has done nothing wrong in the middle of an epidemic. If there is a treatment for a disease then you don’t need vaccinations.

241981 ▶▶▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to Jane in France, 5, #49 of 1790 🔗

No ‘Davos attending’ government in the world has been interested in treatments, in fact they have actively banned them. That’s because, as you say, mandatory vaccinations can be legally challenged if there is an effective cure.

240444 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Nsklent, 12, #50 of 1790 🔗

Pushing for Track’n’Trace to be given over to local public health teams follows the long term plan of investing ever more power in those unlovely undemocratic bodies.
The more of them there are the more they will seek to outdo each other with the precautionary principle.

240463 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Nsklent, 18, #51 of 1790 🔗

Agreed but on the plus side at least if there is a group we can have a dialogue with them. At the moment we have to laboriously write away to individual MPs and then be fobbed off. If these people are at least prepared to slightly break ranks there is a chink in the armour, I think we need to look how to communicate with this group and start to raise our key concerns with them.

240533 ▶▶▶ Marialta, replying to Steve Martindale, 8, #52 of 1790 🔗

Good point. Let’s direct our efforts at them now. We need the strategists amongst us to come forward.

240779 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #53 of 1790 🔗

Totally agree.
Perhaps Mabel Cow might put the list on her site?

241037 ▶▶▶▶ right2question, replying to Rosie, 3, #54 of 1790 🔗

is there a way to search these comments ? and, i’d find it so much easier if there was a way that ‘action’ steps and links could be reached without scrolling through all posts.

240479 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Nsklent, 22, #55 of 1790 🔗

I didn’t read it this way since I understand ‘deadly’ to mean capable of causing death, which covid is, as are peanuts, bee stings and combine harvesters for some individuals. They have given context, differentiating it from the ‘most lethal killers’ and pointed out that other risks are even greater in the younger population.

I think acknowledging the argument of the other side in the first instance, while taking the sting out of that argument is sensible and necessary. It means that covid denier accusations that would otherwise be used to obfuscate and delay grown-up discussion are neutralised.

240931 ▶▶▶ Jo, replying to Charlie Blue, 7, #56 of 1790 🔗

I don’t ever remember wasps being referred to as deadly insects. But apparently 3% of adults and 0.8% of children are allergic to their stings. Not everyone will get stung (infected??) and not everyone will die but they are a risk of those of us who are allergic. Does it stop me going out in the summer? Of course not.

241040 ▶▶▶▶ right2question, replying to Jo, 6, #57 of 1790 🔗

yes, we don’t say what deadly flu is going around this year, are you having a flu jab against the deadly flu, ‘come get your deadly fried food here’ are you going in a deadly car,

241530 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Charlie Blue, 3, #58 of 1790 🔗

Ha ha, I heard of a farmer who tried to unblock his machine while it was still running, and baled himself.

Do we ban balers, or just stupid farmers?

I also remember someone who died from a wasp sting, which made him fall off the roof. Lots of ways to die, some more avoidable than others

240501 ▶▶ FlynnQuill, replying to Nsklent, 10, #59 of 1790 🔗

I agree also, It’s like they have to pay some kind of lip service to covid if they don’t agree with the lockdowns. It isn’t a deadly disease for 99.97% of the population, drives me insane when I hear that shite spouted!

240511 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Nsklent, 9, #60 of 1790 🔗

Some probably don’t really think it is “deadly” in the sense that most people mean, which is more deadly than similar diseases. Others might. But it’s probably conscious or subconscious lip service to the idee fixe that is so widespread. Ideally they would move beyond that, but for now the fact that this has formed and the numbers in it is a very good step for us.

240595 ▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Julian, 6, #61 of 1790 🔗

Deadly is such a tricky definition. You know what is also deadly…the flu, influenza, fucking peanuts if you are allergic. So the fact they are calling it a deadly disease is factually correct but it is also used to scare people even further.

240544 ▶▶ Edward Lear, replying to Nsklent, 41, #62 of 1790 🔗

One of the things that really troubles me is the number of people who throw around the idea (without qualification) that this virus kills “people of all ages”. Yes, it’s true – around 600 people under 65 have died (with or of?) covid since the start of the pandemic, but I strongly suspect that if you list the causes of death in that age group in that time period, covid will come very low in the rankings. And more importantly, 600 people hardly constitutes a “tsunami” of deaths! Another thing that really pisses me off is how the msm and the public commenting on some of the columns, accuse lockdown sceptics of being far right facists who want to see “survivial of the fittest” – again, an idea that seems to be gaining some traction. What never seems to get discussed is the fact that sceptics oppose the loss of life to all age groups CAUSED by lockdowns. Lives lost through cancers, suicdes, social and economic deprivation and so on – and what is more worrying – much longer term than the relatively low number of deaths (compared to other diseases) caused by covid this year. Also completely air brushed out of these conversations is the fact that we do have to die of something and when you get into your 80s (which is the age group accounting for most of the deaths (with or of covid) you are in the final years or months of your life. We somehow see this now as a failure of our own lifestyles or of medicine rather than what it is, part of life. Do people think we should try to live forever, even if for the vast majority of us, that will lead to living in care and not in the best of circumstances? I give up!

240632 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Edward Lear, 15, #63 of 1790 🔗

I’ve shown my age-stratified deaths chart to a few people and I get the impression that their brains simply reject the fact that so few young people have died “with COVID-19”.

I thought the chart would be a slam-dunk, but I get no traction with the norms. People believe what they want to believe, despite the evidence of their own eyes.

240658 ▶▶▶▶ Edward Lear, replying to Mabel Cow, 13, #64 of 1790 🔗

Yes, I meet with similar responses – along the lines of “but there’s so much we don’t know yet”…..But there is so much we DO know! I honestly think that because we’ve got mass conformity with these restrictions, it’s a way of not having to deal with the contradiction – i.e why am I doing this if what I’m being told isn’t true. Serves the bloody government well, anyway!

240677 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Mabel Cow, 13, #65 of 1790 🔗

Cognitive dissonance.

240864 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Mabel Cow, #67 of 1790 🔗

I can’t get at that page Mabel Cow? Says ‘this site can’t provide a secure connection’ – anyone know what that means? (I am on a Chromebook – that may be the problem)

241533 ▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to CGL, 1, #68 of 1790 🔗

Probably an expired certificate somewhere. With Firefox I often get warnings even including the BBC

240881 ▶▶▶▶ fiery, replying to Mabel Cow, 5, #69 of 1790 🔗

I’d also imagine that the majority of deaths in the 60 – 79 cohort are at the higher end and among people with existing co-morbidities. As someone at the lower end of the scale with no health problems whatsoever I really resent how the government data automatically identifies me as an increased risk as opposed to someone half my age who is morbidly obese.

242198 ▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Mabel Cow, #70 of 1790 🔗

How do you think those age stratified deaths would look in the absence of treatment? One reason why those 80+ have such high mortality is that they are not treated. There are no antivirals and they don’t enter the ITU. By contrast the younger do go into the ITU and an increasing fraction have been coming out. (75% vs 63% up to August). Median Age of ITU patients is 61. And only 1/19 have serious comorbidity. The naive death statistics hide considerable subtlety.

241005 ▶▶▶ DickieA, replying to Edward Lear, 6, #71 of 1790 🔗

Respond in kind. Accuse them of being selfish, racist killers by citing the U.N: “an estimate from the United Nations World Food Program indicating that pandemic lockdowns causing breaks in the food chain are expected to push 135 million people into severe hunger and starvation by the end of this year. Other harms include the difficult to measure effects of missed schooling for many children”. 135 million poor, starving people around the world severly affected by 1st world lockdowns versus the deaths of 600 UK under 65s. How kind, selfless and thoughtful of them. /sarc

241685 ▶▶▶ Aslangeo, replying to Edward Lear, 2, #72 of 1790 🔗

Pie chart of NHS England Hospital fatalities to 5th November
Key points
4 people under 20 without pre existing conditions have died
35 people aged 20 to 39 without PEC have died
283 people aged 40 to 59 without PEC have died

these departed people represent less than 1% of English hospital fatalities

When people in care homes are included then the portion for under 60’s will decrease further

I agree with Mabel Cow that there seems to be a lot of cognitive dissonance going on

241828 ▶▶▶ Borisbullshit, replying to Edward Lear, #73 of 1790 🔗

Its much better to have a good quality of life and die before you reach the care home. Who cares how long you live when you are a prisoner in an institution.

240564 ▶▶ Will, replying to Nsklent, 9, #74 of 1790 🔗

They are using that language to appeal to the centre ground. If they come out and tell people they are idiots and this disease isn’t remotely dangerous they will alienate the very people they are trying to influence; it would be akin to Remainers trying to appeal to wavering Leave voters by telling them voting Leave is stupid which, ahem, didn’t exactly work.

240654 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Nsklent, 1, #75 of 1790 🔗

We need to school them.

240961 ▶▶ Borisbullshit, replying to Nsklent, 1, #76 of 1790 🔗

Excellent post…I am afraid few MPs seem to really grasp the facts much. Either that or they feel they have to make so many concessions to the other side or otherwise they will be hosed down in slime. Its the same with ‘every death is a tragedy’ …no its not…sometimes its a mercy. It reminds me of the podcast in which James Delingpole ended up having a very bitter row with Sebastion Gorka because the former called COVID 19 a ‘non existent problem’. The irony is that these two probably agree on almost everything but it was a very angry exchange just because of 3 words.

241010 ▶▶ right2question, replying to Nsklent, 1, #77 of 1790 🔗

maybe we could be contacting them with info / links etc

241522 ▶▶ chris c, replying to Nsklent, 4, #78 of 1790 🔗

Following on from some comments days ago (I’m way behind reading as usual) I have a theory, which is mine and belongs to me.

When the Wuhan lab released the virus, their masterstroke was to also release the USER MANUAL.

Welcome to ownership of your new bioweapon, the most lethal and contagious virus ever known.

This is what SAGE and most govvernments throughout the world are working to.

It doesn’t take much observation to see that in fact it closely resembles a rather average flu, the exception being that it targets very specific groups for harm or death. Many people including increasing numbers of scientists and even doctors can see this but as it isn’t in the documentation it is ignored by our masters

240438 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 17, #79 of 1790 🔗

I just watched the 2002 film Equilibrium. Set in a post WW3 dystopia the population self-vaccinates daily with Librium which removes the emotions of hatred, rage and anger that lead to war.
It also cancels empathy and creativity so the crowds shuffle aimlessly about, nothing bad happens to them under the eye of faceless stormtroopers but nothing good either. They just exist.

Enter our heroes Christian Bale and Sean Bean as two supercops who search for ‘feelers’ (those who still have ‘feelings’ not gropers) and caches of contraband art, music, books or anything creative to destroy.

Bale outs Bean as a closet ‘feeler’ and mercifully shoots him so he does not share the fate of his own wife after being reported by their deeply creepy son,
incinerated for Sense Offence.

That’s the first ten minutes then it just gets fanciful.

240505 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to karenovirus, 2, #80 of 1790 🔗

Personally it’s one of my favourite films. The fight scenes are fab in how they’re stylised. It does get ridiculous in places but the premise is really interesting and on the whole, well-executed. I love how Bean’s character quotes Yeats’ ‘The Cloths of Heaven’ as well – one of my favourite poems.

240601 ▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Poppy, 4, #81 of 1790 🔗

Great film…a bit close to the bone at the moment.Togehter with V for Vendetta it feel it’s like a documentary.

240727 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Thomas_E, 2, #82 of 1790 🔗

A bit close to the bone indeed. A year ago I would have thought the obvious parallels ridiculous but that’s what I thought when jokingly suggesting they would let people unmask in return for the vaccine some months ago.

241029 ▶▶▶▶ Ed Turnbull, replying to Thomas_E, 2, #83 of 1790 🔗

V For Vendetta does indeed feel like a documentary – particularly the plot point of a virus being used as the pretext for an authoritarian dictatorship.

240732 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Poppy, #84 of 1790 🔗

Thanks Poppy, I don’t normally go for ninja movies but it fitted in nicely with this one.

241432 ▶▶ TT, replying to karenovirus, 3, #85 of 1790 🔗

One of the films that made a big impression on me when I saw it as a (pre-high school) kid was the SF/horror feature Invasion of the Body Snatchers , both the original 1956 version by Don Siegel and the 1978 remake by Philip Kaufman. As summarized by Wikipedia: “ The plot involves a San Francisco health inspector and his colleague who discover that humans are being replaced by alien duplicates; each is a perfect copy of the person replaced, only devoid of human emotion ”.

The most scary thing to me was that the ‘aliens’ were a kind of plant-like hive mind organism that invisibly took possession of the humans it infected. No scary creatures or bloody gore involved, the infected just turned a sickly colour and went through some changes as they disintegrated and were ‘turned’ into a perfectly similar-looking alien copy, only completely emotionless and with an empty stare. It evoked a truly paranoid atmosphere as the last remaining true humans saw their group dwindle, one after the other being infected by the hive mind. The protagonists would, for example, arrange to meet up with one of their last fellow resistance members only to find the latter speaking in a droning voice and with glazed eyes – another one down…
The dystopian finale sees the very last human wandering around amidst a – perfectly normal looking – crowd of pseudo-human drones, the only choices left being to either join them or blow one’s brains out.

Somehow many of the things that made a lasting impression on me in my youth turned out to be slightly prophetic or symbolic in view of later events in my life. I always wondered if the same would apply for this nightmare vision, which really scared the living daylights out of me when I first saw it. Today, I wonder no more.

241461 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to TT, 1, #86 of 1790 🔗

Rhinoceros by Eugene Ionesco delivers a similiar theme. The assimilation of ‘rhinoceros” analogous to fascism. Gene Wilder is the last surviving thinking human in the film version. Just say ‘ rhinocerous’ loudly if challenged by a zealot!

240440 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 3, #87 of 1790 🔗

From Toby’s text. Some might find it surprising that there is a Head of Philosophy at a 6th Form College, I certainly was when told by a Philosophy teacher at The College here that Philosophy is the single most popular A-Level subject in England and Wales.

240445 ▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 18, #88 of 1790 🔗

You should have been, because it is absolutely untrue.
Here’s one recent list of the most popular subjects:

https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/news/these-are-the-11-most-popular-a-level-subjects-in-2019

The favourite slush subject is psychology. You can do very well out of that one.

‘Philosophy’ means ‘love of wisdom’. It means engaging critically, and at the deepest level, with diverse interpretations of how the world is and ought to be, and of how human beings can strive towards mental, moral and spiritual growth. It means studying the writings of some of the greatest minds of all time. It is absolutely NOT the fodder that’s going to be offered to sheeple kiddies.

240449 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, #89 of 1790 🔗

Thank you for the clarification Annie.

240504 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to annie, 8, #90 of 1790 🔗

My girls have both studied Psychology from GCSE, and one is now doing it for A level.
Have to say, I hadn’t considered it a slush subject really, as even for GCSE they had to learn 21 case studies, 18 named theories, research methods, neuroscience, neurochemistry/biology, brain scans & brain structure.

Eldest got an 8 (A*) at GCSE (10 out of 60 in the year achieved a 7 or above – she was in the top 3), and wants to study it for a degree (eventually!). She has to learn over 60 case studies plus a lot more theory, research methods, approaches, and topics include forensic psychology. Part of the course is issues/debates, and one of the arguments is ‘Why psychology is a science’.

It is a fascinating subject, and she is passionate about that, and her English too.
I know it gets a bad rap and some think it is a humanity, but I would definitely be in the science camp. There is a lot more to it than fluff I think.

240688 ▶▶▶▶ Hieronimusb, replying to CGL, 8, #91 of 1790 🔗

There is a lot more to it than fluff I think.’

The very existence of the Behavioural Insights Team (Cabinet Office) and their use of Applied Behavioural Psychology to influence public perception and attitudes says you are quite right.

240866 ▶▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Hieronimusb, 2, #92 of 1790 🔗

I’d rather she wasn’t going to be ruining people’s lives with it to be honest!

241221 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Hieronimusb, replying to CGL, 1, #93 of 1790 🔗

I would feel the same, I expect she’s sensible and will use it constructively!

242057 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Hieronimusb, #94 of 1790 🔗

She is a regular Miss Honey (from Matilda) – absolutely loves kids, and they her, so maybe it could be put to some good use in that regard.

241183 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to CGL, 1, #95 of 1790 🔗

I know how much harm the dastardly Simon Weasely Wessely did to ME patients while he used the illness as his main tool to try convincing the establishment that psychology is a science.

240528 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to annie, 8, #96 of 1790 🔗

Philosophy is one of the hardest subjects to learn. It underpins all our systems, including science. There’s a reason why we have lots of stupidity today. Because few take the time to learn the differences and the different schools.

Do you think if for example Karl Popper was institutionally known we would have this idiocy?

240664 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to mhcp, 2, #97 of 1790 🔗

The Philosophy of Science has always been derided and starved of any funding. Largely due to the focus on ‘results’ from science. David Bohm fundamentally altered the course of our understanding of the universe by striking out of the mainstream Copenhagen Interpretation.

I love his books. On Creativity is one of the most excellent books I’ve ever read.

240669 ▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to mhcp, 3, #98 of 1790 🔗

Do we think the French have been less stupid than us in their response to this epidemic, or that their politicians and mandarins, who are all schooled in philosophy, have made less of a hash of it?

“The study of philosophy in France has a core role in secondary education. In “terminale” – the last year of high school – it is a compulsory subject for all students. Those studying humanities do eight hours of philosophy a week, while pupils studying science and technology do just two hours.

For four gruelling hours, every student in their last year of “lycée” is asked to respond in writing to one philosophical question. Examples from previous years include, “Can a scientific truth be dangerous?” and “Is it one’s own responsibility to find happiness?””

240769 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to karenovirus, 3, #99 of 1790 🔗

Can confirm that a subject named philosophy is very popular, but it’s not what you or I would recognise as philosophy. Little critical thinking, logic, analysis required, and little knowledge of history either.

240441 Meanonsunday, replying to Meanonsunday, 2, #100 of 1790 🔗

It’s very clear that Pfizer did not want to “know” results before the election because, as a publicly traded company, they would be forced to disclose them. Patients were being tested for COVID by their doctors but Pfizer was also collecting a sample to send to their own lab. At some point in October they told the lab to sit on those samples and not analyze them until the day after the election. But let’s be clear about this; all of the patients, their doctors, and Pfizer already knew from the local testing if the patient was positive. Anything else would be unethical. So this was an exercise in willful ignorance by Pfizer to delay announcing results.

240520 ▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Meanonsunday, 2, #101 of 1790 🔗

Unlike U.K. listed companies, US ones (I believe) can sit on material inside info for somewhat longer, as long as insider procedures are followed. Certainly it’s not like MAR where you have a matter of hours to release the news. So they could have known.

That said, even U.K. or European listed ones can massage the timing by deciding when to conduct the analysis.

241347 ▶▶▶ Meanonsunday, replying to Sophie123, #102 of 1790 🔗

You are right in general although in this case there were particular circumstances. Pfizer had specified data based rules for when or if they would make a public announcement. The information was of such a nature that the risk to leak and the large impact on the stock price made disclosure essential. As someone in the industry that has been through this process with many clinical trials I can say that their excuse for the timing is not credible; they chose to wait for the day after the election.

240442 Scotty87, replying to Scotty87, 51, #103 of 1790 🔗

You’d be forgiven for thinking that Pfizer had discovered the cure for cancer yesterday. “A great day for humanity” plastered across the front of even the more reliable rags like the Daily Telegraph.

Who’s going to tell them that these “vaccines” are not expected to prevent infection, only modify symptoms of those infected?
Who’s going to tell them that these “vaccines” are no substitute for a robust immune system in this case, with well over 99% of healthy under 70 year olds able to tackle Covid-19 using nothing but the natural defences we were all born with?
Who’s going to tell them that these “vaccines” have never been successfully produced for previous coronaviruses, raising huge questions about their efficacy?
Who’s going to tell them that these “vaccines” are unlicensed and yet to go through the required many years of rigorous clinical trials, raising huge questions about their safety?
Who’s going to tell them that these “vaccines” have been procured at what will undoubtedly be an eye-watering, economy crippling cost, meaning that our children and grandchildren will be paying for them for the rest of their lives?

Who’s going to tell them that these “vaccines” are nothing more than a global scam to stuff more cash into the pockets of Gates, Vallance, Hancock et al?

240447 ▶▶ annie, replying to Scotty87, 12, #104 of 1790 🔗

Those many years of required testing have been casually jettisoned.
It is, or rather was, a requirement that vaccines should do more good. than harm to the recipients. The individual recipients
That one’s gone as well.

240458 ▶▶ Danny, replying to Scotty87, 37, #105 of 1790 🔗

Well given that I actually heard on the news yesterday that this “discovery” eclipses not only the moon landing, but also the fall of the Berlin Wall, I would say nobody.
The medieval village mentality continues. After months of self flagellation and labelling people unclean, a wagon has rolled into the market place offering an elixir of life and the village has gone hysterical, bowing down to the Gods of Pfizer and offering them their willing arms.
You just know that within day sign taking the cure, people who never had Covid or felt ill, will be talking about how much better they now feel.
It is probably the most effective PR stunt in history. Talk about supply and demand. It is astonishing.

240585 ▶▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to Danny, 8, #106 of 1790 🔗

As long as the masked hordes believe it works. We know that it’s a placebo, to extricate governments from the hole into which they have dug themselves, but as long as the sheep believe in it and give up the ghastly masks.

240613 ▶▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Caroline Watson, 21, #107 of 1790 🔗

And here lies the problem. A work meeting yesterday consisted of about 20 min of people gushing on about how great it will be when we all take the vaccine so we can work in the office again. I then said well it’s not been properly tested and I for one will not take it…Complete silence, I’m afraid my days here are probably numbered as back are already up because I do not allow my team to wear masks , socially distance or any of that bollocks while we are in the office. My team of course love it and I have made all of them into sceptics , but my company is full of bed wetter ( a senior manager has not left her house since March!! She does not even go to the shops and her husband has to do everything) Gold help me!

241211 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Thomas_E, 2, #108 of 1790 🔗

Is she a genuine bedwetter, or a diva with a willing slave? (We have one in our family.)

241445 ▶▶▶▶▶ TT, replying to Thomas_E, 1, #109 of 1790 🔗

Congrats to you for being one of the brave at least! Wish we had some of your kind in my nick of the woods …

241632 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sceptical Lefty, replying to Thomas_E, -3, #110 of 1790 🔗

I am perfectly happy to have the vaccine. I’m not an anti vaxxer

241860 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Borisbullshit, replying to Sceptical Lefty, #111 of 1790 🔗

After you old boy.

241992 ▶▶▶▶▶ ianp, replying to Thomas_E, 1, #112 of 1790 🔗

The white collar medium / high level management LinkedIn luvvie monkeys are indeed the worst. Complete and utter cognitive dissonance and lack of independent thought. Utter stupidity.

I’m in that group, I mostly keep my mouth shut except for a couple of my team where we laugh about it.

It’s like being in a different plane of existence.

They are so wrong about everything, but are locked in a Covidworld mental prison that has a stranglehold over their ability to think straight, or act like an independent human being

And yet they still churn out plenty of overly complex charts on next quarters sales forecasts… Go figure.

241038 ▶▶▶ flyingjohn, replying to Danny, #113 of 1790 🔗

It’s as big a stunt as the lethal danger of Covid-19 itself.

240514 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Scotty87, 8, #114 of 1790 🔗

And the vaccines have only been tested on the healthy people who need it least.

240620 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Julian, 2, #115 of 1790 🔗

The implication being that as long as the productive workers survive the ‘vaccination’, then its ok.

241512 ▶▶▶ Suzyv, replying to Julian, #116 of 1790 🔗

Maybe because it’s going to harm/kill quite a few of the non healthy which doesn’t look too good for a trial. Slightly more easy to cover up once administration is in full swing- oh nothing to do with the vaccine it was their…

240645 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Scotty87, 12, #117 of 1790 🔗

It seems most people aren’t interested in knowing anything other than a vaccine will save them. It seems most have given up thinking for themselves and are even pleased to have anyone who does try to think and question punished and criminalised. Very, very frightening times

240852 ▶▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to wendy, 3, #118 of 1790 🔗

I have often wondered whether the regularly vaccinated have been brainwashed in some way by previous vaccines. Sounds farfetched but in this day of nanochips and bio tech anything’s possible.

240446 Laurence, replying to Laurence, 33, #119 of 1790 🔗

Why are we bothering with a vaccine in London ?

According to the GLA, there were 118 COVID deaths in London hospitals for the week to 9 November. Over 90% of COVID deaths are in hospital so that’s a maximum of 131 in total for that week. That’s around 1 in 70,000, approx 1 in 700,000 for the under 65s. That’s before taking into account that these are deaths of people that have had a positive test in the last 28 days, and we know (see NYT 29/8/20 for example) that the vast majority of tests are false positives. Let’s say half these are people that died from (as opposed to with) COVID, an exceptionally large estimate, that means 1 in 1.4million of under 65s die each week of COVID, or 1 in 50,000 if this carries on for 6 months at this level (which it won’t).

Can someone please tell me why we are wasting time and money vaccinating the under 65s in London ? Even for the older people it doesn’t make sense.

Also, whilst I am here, a question to DJAusten. Your predictions that London will ‘catch up’ with the rest of the country are still not proving to happen. NY where they had a heavy ‘first wave’ is showing very low rates of COVID deaths. How much more evidence do you need before accepting the obvious truth that there is a high level of sustained immunity in the population of these places. How many more wrong predictions are you going to make before accepting the obvious ?

240448 ▶▶ Laurence, replying to Laurence, 10, #120 of 1790 🔗

I should add to this that the vaccine makes no sense in the rest of the country either, except maybe for the very old or immunocompromised.

240451 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Laurence, 10, #121 of 1790 🔗

‘The very old or immumocomprimised’
on whom it has not been tested.

240454 ▶▶▶▶ Laurence, replying to karenovirus, 8, #122 of 1790 🔗

Agreed ? I did say maybe and that is of course subject to further testing – generally this COVID 19 is yesterday’s story – the hysterical government reaction to it and anything to do with it unfortunately isn’t !

240459 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 9, #123 of 1790 🔗

That is a terrible fact. What it it going to do to a frail 85 year old with multiple morbidities? They can have absolutely no idea.
Precautionary principle, eh?

240507 ▶▶▶▶▶ rose, replying to annie, 11, #124 of 1790 🔗

When we tell MPS that they should have the vaccine first to prove what a miracle’ it is, so we have a good sample across all ages of how safe it is we need them to also vaccinate their parents, children and grandchildren

240538 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to rose, 9, #125 of 1790 🔗

Include as well pro-lockdown slebs and journalists plus their families. That should widen the sample pool.

240611 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Bart Simpson, 11, #126 of 1790 🔗

I’m a Celebrity, get me vaccinated. Even I would watch that.

240634 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sarigan, 4, #127 of 1790 🔗

Yep and it should be the real thing not a placebo and not a fake vaccine.

240745 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sarigan, 2, #128 of 1790 🔗

Piers Morgan says he’ll take the jab on live TV.

241233 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Hieronimusb, replying to karenovirus, 1, #129 of 1790 🔗

Piers Morgan (anag Romping Arse) makes a good living out of fatuous activities like that.

241861 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Borisbullshit, replying to karenovirus, 1, #130 of 1790 🔗

Put some poison in it too as a special gift for him.

240666 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to rose, 3, #131 of 1790 🔗

What good will that do when they should be under arrest and investigation for their crimes not in a position where these evil and corrupt people can continue to cause harm to millions. We should actually want to protect the children of these scum not expose them to the very same harms their parents are trying to inflict on the rest of us.

240576 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to annie, 7, #133 of 1790 🔗

They know that giving these vaccines to the very old won’t offer them any protection and is likely highly dangerous, but this seems to be just part of the plan. The same applies to the flu vaccines, which are pushed on the old relentlessly and which rendered the recipients much more likely to be affected by Covid-19 and/or pneumonia.

240482 ▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to karenovirus, 7, #134 of 1790 🔗

How much money has been and will be spaffed by the regime on a vaccine that is totally useless except to those whom it may well harm?

Thanks, Masko the Clown. You’re a great prime minister. Up there with Churchill.

240593 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Ovis, 10, #135 of 1790 🔗

The Covid -19 vaccinations are a way of making mega money while culling the old and unproductive. Now which philanthrocapitalist would dream up an evil scheme like that, while being rich enough to bribe governments and media the world over to act as accomplices.

240565 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Laurence, 16, #136 of 1790 🔗

You have to have a functioning immune system for a vaccine to work. The very old can’t use them and those with a functioning immune system don’t need them. These vaccines are pointless and are simply a scam to make Big Pharma and Bill Gates richer at our and our children’s expense. We can be assured that politicians the world over are getting their cut for valuable services rendered.

241560 ▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Rowan, 1, #137 of 1790 🔗

Yup.

I read somewhere mainstream that “1 in 90” have covid. So where are all the fucking bodies then? I suspect protected by that immune system, the one they don’t want you to know exists

240450 ▶▶ Adamb, replying to Laurence, 3, #138 of 1790 🔗

Ah but tier 2 restrictions! Seriously though, good post.

240452 ▶▶▶ Laurence, replying to Adamb, #139 of 1790 🔗

thank you

240455 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Laurence, 3, #140 of 1790 🔗

Why? I think it’s pretty obvious, to save the pig dictator hide

240457 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, 10, #141 of 1790 🔗

True.
And because the zombies believe in the Magic Vaccine just as they believe in the Magic Mask.

240598 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Cecil B, 2, #142 of 1790 🔗

It won’t save him, but he’ll walk off with a pot of money for services well rendered.

240867 ▶▶▶▶ Hieronimusb, replying to Rowan, #143 of 1790 🔗

He should be rendered.. to get rid of the fat, then feed him to the swine.

240468 ▶▶ annie, replying to Laurence, 10, #144 of 1790 🔗

And what are they going to do if ‘infections’ and Covviedeaths drop to vanishing levels before the snake oil sorry vaccine is rolled out?

240477 ▶▶▶ Liewe, replying to annie, 11, #145 of 1790 🔗

It vanished because of unsocial distancing and masks! Now, if you’ll only take the vaccine, we can all lose the masks! Don’t be selfish now, protect me by having your vaccine

240488 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to annie, 10, #146 of 1790 🔗

I think they are very concerned that this may happen and they will not then all make shed loads of money. Hence they are ramping up the fear and rushing out a vaccine to try and ensure they do not miss this money making opportunity.
This has been a pesky quirky virus and it would be just like it to go an disappear just as they roll out a vaccine, at least i hope that is what happens.

240734 ▶▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to Steve Martindale, 6, #147 of 1790 🔗

Steve, it already has largely disappeared – ‘was over by this summer’ according to Dr Mike Yeadon. Now just a fraudulent misrepresentation of other respiratory diseases as Covid.
Great news about the lateral flow tests, somewhat buried in the lower columns of today’s articles.
‘… Turns out, the new tests are far more reliable than the shonky PCR test and the Army are much less likely to ignore the protocols stipulated by the manufacturers. And that’s good news – brilliant news – because it reveals just how few cases there actually are in Liverpool. Practically none, in fact.
The Government needs to take a look at the nation as a patient and stop treating the tests. Symptom trackers show symptoms back at baseline; accident and emergency attendances for acute respiratory infections are below normal, hospital admissions, intensive care bed use and hospital mortality figures are all normal for the time of year. The patient is better, but the treatment is toxic and it has to be stopped.’

240509 ▶▶▶ Laurence, replying to annie, 8, #148 of 1790 🔗

I think, as Steve Martindale does, that they are very concerned that this doesn’t happen which is why there is such a rush. I don’t think it’s financial, but just to pretend that their policies achieved eradication of the virus and it didn’t go away by itself.

240610 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to annie, 3, #149 of 1790 🔗

They won’t drop too low as their lies will continue to be told. The dumb masses will swallow them whole and continue rolling up their sleeves.

241014 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to annie, 3, #150 of 1790 🔗

Oh, they can spin the numbers anyway they want with the PCR tests. Most people won’t question the deaths as long as they are told they at pandemic levels.

241450 ▶▶▶▶ TT, replying to nat, 1, #151 of 1790 🔗

Exactly, it won’t disappear as long as there are respiratory illnesses they can label Covid at their leisure with a fake pseudo-test scam.

240667 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Laurence, 4, #152 of 1790 🔗

All those logical calculations are being totally discarded by NICE in pursuit of a mass vaccination programme. Why?

241466 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Laurence, #153 of 1790 🔗

Did not Mr. Pinch predict similar?

241670 ▶▶ djaustin, replying to Laurence, -1, #154 of 1790 🔗

Projections are based on no change. Prior to Tier 2 and subsequently lockdown2, admissions were doubling (from a low level) at the same pace as elsewhere. With the intervention, that will now slow and turnover. My six-week projections have been accurate since early September and continue to be so, thank you.There is still no strong evidence of an effect of immunity on the trajectory of the epidemic.

241730 ▶▶▶ Laurence, replying to djaustin, 2, #155 of 1790 🔗

You’re not seriously crediting the lockdown with reducing the infection rate ! Why did it peak (per the King’s College figures) on 3/11 before the lockdown started ?

If there is no effect of immunity:

Would you please (for about the fifth time I have asked you) explain why Sweden’s death rate reduced at around the same time as the UK, France etc (note: if it’s just the season then the lockdown was an even bigger disgrace)

Why is London suffering less than the rest of the country now ?

Why is New York doing so well now ?

On another note, why are the excess death figures about half the supposed COVID deaths.

And finally, please let me know whether you agree the vaccine is a ridiculous idea for young people (a complete waste of time and money) as the chance of anything bad happening to them from the virus is so small. And they’re going to reduce the NHS GP service so they can vaccinate people who aren’t at risk from a virus that’s nearly run it’s course.

Are they having a laugh ?

241737 ▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Laurence, 2, #156 of 1790 🔗

You ask good questions but I doubt you will get good answers

241912 ▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Laurence, -3, #157 of 1790 🔗

Tier 2 was introduced in London on Oct15 and the rate of hospital admissions has turned over and fallen since then.

Sweden has seen a doubling in COVID19 ITU admissions every 10 days since September, odd for a country with widespread immunity. It is false to state that Sweden did not social distance, it’s just that the Government left more of the responsibility to the population. But once restraints are relaxed cases, hospitalizations have risen. Data here:
https://www.icuregswe.org/en/data–results/covid-19-in-swedish-intensive-care/

London is suffering less because it has started from a much lower nadir, not because everyone has had it and there is widespread immunity. There is likely to be <20%, and this will cause a 20% reduction in growth rate relative to no immunity.

Excess deaths figures yesterday were 700 above the previous 10-year high and about 15% above the 10-year mean. Deaths will grow to about 20-25% above mean by Christmas.

I have never predicted doom and gloom, but without Tiers there was strong evidence that we would head up to April levels of admissions and deaths before Christmas. Tier restrictions will stabilise and possibly shrink the epidemic. Lockdown definitely shrinks the epidemic.

As for the vaccine. Early days, but protecting the vulnerable and most at risk is the obvious priority. There is probably not even capacity for that.

240453 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 7, #158 of 1790 🔗

Disgraceful

This site should be monitored by GCHQ and the contributors thrown in jail

Ooop!!! Failed to come up with an original idea once again

Why am I always behind the curve?

240460 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Cecil B, 6, #159 of 1790 🔗

What makes you think that it isn’t?
Maybe it will be like after the restoration of Charles 2nd when all members and supporters of the commonwealth/republic were executed, exiled or removed from important positions in society, surely not,will it?

240461 annie, 4, #160 of 1790 🔗

One to watch, folks. Email just received from the Fascist zJunta:

Dear Annie
You recently signed the petition “Ensure access to treatment and screening for all cancer patients during Covid-19”:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/552734
MPs will debate the effect of the covid-19 outbreak on breast cancer diagnosis and the future of breast cancer services this Thursday 12 November in Westminster Hall. The subject of the debate has been determined by the Backbench Business Committee.
This will be a general debate. General debates allow MPs to debate important issues, however they do not end in a vote nor can they change the law.
The debate will start at 1.30pm and last for 90 minutes.
Watch here this Thursday : https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/9c994129-192c-4239-9a1f-8e4724d4d71b

240462 annie, replying to annie, 5, #161 of 1790 🔗

Debate to be held on breast cancer: screening

MPs will debate the effect of the covid-19 outbreak on breast cancer diagnosis and the future of breast cancer services this Thursday 12 November in Westminster Hall. The subject of the debate has been determined by the Backbench Business Committee.

Full comment with links awaiting approval.

240515 ▶▶ steph, replying to annie, 9, #162 of 1790 🔗

I had a letter at the weekend inviting me to book an appointment with my GP for cervical screening. I phoned first thing on Monday. Firstly I had to listen do to a very long message about what to do if I had Covid symptoms and that I was not under any circumstances to come to the surgery (with or without symptoms) unless told to do so by a member of staff. Then it moved onto the selection choices “ press 1 for appointments” etc. So I pressed 1 to be greeted with “did you know you can register online to make appointments, just come into the surgery with your ID”. Clearly nobody in their admin team has listened through the full set of nonsense we have to listen to before we even join the queue.
10 minutes in I was, thankfully, able to make an appointment but not for this month “because we are locked down”. Hopefully my appointment for early next month will go ahead.
Does anybody know what backlog has built up for the various screening programmes? This is the first one I have been due since the madness started but I am hearing of friends’ breast screening being delayed for many months now. That’s just the well woman stuff, I’m sure there are others.

240642 ▶▶▶ Jane G, replying to steph, 3, #163 of 1790 🔗

Don’t know about a backlog but in E. Yorks I got a cervical screening appt and bowel cancer poo- stick kit in the space of a month so can’t personally complain. I did have to go through the surgery square- dance though, with face covered while lady- bits presented for attention.

240464 paologrigio, replying to paologrigio, 26, #164 of 1790 🔗

If you’re a medic, you need to know that Covid & flu are different, so that you can treat accordingly. As members of the public, we have also been encouraged to believe they are very different but why?
Both can kill, mainly but not exclusively very elderly & those with underlying health conditions.
Both can cause lingering after effects.
Both can be spread in the same ways, & the risks minimised in the same ways.
Both could cause the hospital system to be overwhelmed .
Both pose very little risk to the vast majority.

240539 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to paologrigio, 6, #165 of 1790 🔗

Great post.

Both are respiratory illnesses and close to impossible to distinguish between them

240599 ▶▶ stewart, replying to paologrigio, 9, #166 of 1790 🔗

You cut to the heart of the matter.

Why are we all pretending that something is very dangerous when it isn’t?

I think the bottom line is that believing things that aren’t true is a feature of our species. And this feature gets exploited all the time by people to exert power on others. Sometimes it happens on a massive scale, like now.

240753 ▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to stewart, 1, #167 of 1790 🔗
240895 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to stewart, 5, #168 of 1790 🔗

I’ve just been messaging a friend who’s daughter turned 18 at the weekend.
They spent some of the day with my friend’s parents – socially distanced. No hugs for a granddaughter on such a milestone day.
The nan has COPD and various other issues. Friend won’t take any chances with her health.
Would she have behaved the same last year during the normal winter flu epidemic killing roughly the same people with the same vulnerabilities, and no-one visiting had any symptoms? I very much doubt it.
So many happy occasions stolen this year, for nothing really.

240465 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 34, #169 of 1790 🔗

Gaoling of people sceptical of the vaccine is exactly what happened to Galileo and Copernicus. I know CoViD19 is being seen as the plague, but have we, as a society, also travelled back in time?
There have been calls for climate change sceptics to be penalised as well.
Critical thought is dead.

240596 ▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to p02099003, 16, #170 of 1790 🔗

Those who state openly that mammals cannot change sex, and that women don’t have penises or men periods, are already being subjected to visits and threats by the police. They have also been sacked from jobs and removed from positions in the Girl Guides.

240605 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Caroline Watson, 12, #171 of 1790 🔗

“Those who can make you beelive absurdities can make you commit atrcities”

Voltaire

240621 ▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Caroline Watson, 4, #172 of 1790 🔗

Woman (def)- adult human female

End of discussion…Next topic please

240762 ▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Thomas_E, #173 of 1790 🔗

Humans, as well as some other organisms, can have a rare chromosomal arrangement that is contrary to their phenotypic sex; for example, XX males or XY females (androgen insensitivity syndrome).
Real life is not always that simple.

240746 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Caroline Watson, 3, #174 of 1790 🔗

Feminists are now up in arms about this issue, but I don’t recall many of them objecting when the speechcrime and thoughtcrime guns were turned against “racists” and “homophobes”.

Free speech is for all, or it’s just a matter of “free speech for opinions I don’t dislike enough to want banned”..

240785 ▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Mark, #175 of 1790 🔗

One for all and all for one, eh? Haven’t noticed too many Klansmen objecting to the ‘speechcrime guns turned against ‘ the feminists?

241078 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Sylvie, 1, #176 of 1790 🔗

Can’t say I’ve the first clue what any “Klansman” thinks about anything, tbh. Rather surprised you’re that familiar with their opinions.

But if you are correct (and assuming “Klansmen” was just your standard smear for anyone who does not fully comply with modern antiracist dogma), why would they? Having been consigned to the demonised criminal bin, the response when the mob then turns on some of its own most enthusiastic members is rather more likely to be schadenfreude at best, surely?

But regardless such frivolities, the point remains. Free speech is for all opinions (with any line drawn at the end very close to direct and immediate incitement), or it is just for opinions you don’t dislike enough to want banned.

240602 ▶▶ calchas, replying to p02099003, 10, #177 of 1790 🔗

Masking, distancing, quarantines of the healthy, penalizing dissident thought.

A Neo-Feudal Great Reset.

Welcome to the Middle Ages 2,0

Medievalism with microchips.

240740 ▶▶ Mark, replying to p02099003, 3, #178 of 1790 🔗

Speech and opinion have been criminalised in this country for years now on political correctness issues. Once you breach a principle it becomes easier and easier to find other cases where it shouldn’t apply.

240469 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 60, #179 of 1790 🔗

On the topic of vaccines I am not ” anti vaxxer ” but I am cautious about a new vaccine which has been rushed through by the politicians , the safety and effectiveness of which is still not clear. . I have asked about twenty of my medical colleagues whose opinions range from masked covid disciples to more ” moderate ” viewpoints.

Not one will have the vaccine this coming year.

240480 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to Peter Thompson, 24, #180 of 1790 🔗

I am not anti vaxxer either but I won’t be a test subject either.

240494 ▶▶ Adamb, replying to Peter Thompson, 14, #181 of 1790 🔗

That’s interesting. So the “disciples” are even more afraid of the vaccine than the virus? Or they really believe their masks and social distancing will be enough to prevent them getting it in the first place? Or are they just afraid of everything?

240524 ▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Adamb, 9, #182 of 1790 🔗

I’m going to guess they are afraid of everything,

240807 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Sophie123, 6, #183 of 1790 🔗

Its a shame they are not afraid of the government and its handlers, that would be the useful type of fear that aids their self preservation.

240510 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Peter Thompson, 23, #184 of 1790 🔗

In today’s newsletter it says that the over 65’s are keen on vaccination. Being in this group myself i think one reason for this is Polio, at my school there were children who had suffered a Polio infection, they were crippled for life we still know adults who had Polio as a child and have spent a lifetime with crippling disability. To those of us who saw the horrors of Polio at their school, the protection of the Polio vaccine was indeed a miracle.
I think it is Polio and the Polio vaccine that made me a fairly enthusiastic vaccine user, I did not think twice about getting Yellow Fever jabs etc. before trips to Africa. I expect many in my generation would take a similar line.
It is only in recent years with concerns over the flu vaccine and now a SARS-Cov2 vaccine that my vaccine faith has been undermined. It takes some reading and understanding and some big shifts of attitude for people to put aside their Polio memories and challenge this new vaccine .

240614 ▶▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to Steve Martindale, 16, #185 of 1790 🔗

I think those of us who were children in the 60s also grew up with the perception of the NHS and the Welfare State generally as benevolent forces for good, and could see the benefits of free contraception, dental treatment for children, school eye tests, the visits of nit nurses etc.
We need to go back to the days of the sort of NHS portrayed in Call the Midwife; run by doctors and matrons and putting over the message that children are a responsibility not a right and responsible family planning a duty.

241870 ▶▶▶▶ Borisbullshit, replying to Caroline Watson, #186 of 1790 🔗

Yes long gone those days of the old NHS.

240681 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Steve Martindale, 6, #187 of 1790 🔗

I am now in my mid seventies, but I never personally knew anyone who was disabled from polio or who even had the illness. Of course, we were all subjected to the propaganda of those pictures of warehouses stuffed full of people and children in iron lungs. These left a lasting impression, but that was as close as it got for me. There are very many oddities about polio itself and the illness definition was changed substantially, thus reducing the number of cases, around the same time as vaccines were introduced. The vaccines themselves have been suspect right from their beginnings and they still are, right up to the present day.

240736 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Rowan, 5, #188 of 1790 🔗

My aunt got polio from the polio jab in the 1940/50s – had one leg shorter than the other

240825 ▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to Rowan, 1, #189 of 1790 🔗

One of my cousins had polio in his youth. He has now had more years on this planet than me, although the effects still show it was not a life stopper.

241325 ▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Rowan, 1, #190 of 1790 🔗

My husband had polio in the late sixties and it was completely covered up. Apparently this happened a lot

241524 ▶▶▶▶ rose, replying to Rowan, 2, #191 of 1790 🔗

I did read once that the symptoms of arsenic poisoning are identical to polio symptoms. As the use of arsenic for crop spraying sugar ended the incidence of polio reduced. Obviously the credit for this went to the polio vaccine??

240835 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Steve Martindale, #192 of 1790 🔗

Your thoughts on SV40, Steve ?

240899 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #193 of 1790 🔗

But the government wouldn’t be giving something to us that wasn’t known to be safe would they?
Would they?????

241291 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to CGL, #194 of 1790 🔗

Fluoride?

241063 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #195 of 1790 🔗

The scare when I was in primary school was diphtheria and I had an inoculation for that. Over the past few years I have become increasingly concerned about the overall efficacy of some vaccines. Now the vast majority of people who don’t need it are being goaded into having a useless vaccine.

241581 ▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to PastImperfect, 1, #196 of 1790 🔗

Yes, back in the day polio, diptheria and smallpox were pretty bad news and a vaccine was probably a good idea.

I believe US children now have in the region of 80 vaccines. Don’t know the current figures in the UK but probably not dissimilar. Can there be a connection to the increasing numbers of autoimmune diseases?

240523 ▶▶ Mr Bee, replying to Peter Thompson, 33, #197 of 1790 🔗

My mother is a healthy active 85 year old. She has already had this year’s flu vaccine. She will not be having the new vaccine. In her words ‘I don’t believe it has been tested enough, vaccines take many years to safely develop & I don’t trust it to be safe’. She initially shielded & followed all the rules. No longer – she’s become a lot more sceptic & her latest stance is ‘I’ll just be sensible & take my chances’. I fervently hope she is representative of her generation.

240552 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Mr Bee, 6, #198 of 1790 🔗

I don’t think she is representative I’m afraid – I had a look yesterday on Gransnet to see what the oldies were thinking about the vaccine. The majority are all eager to take it, because then ‘we can get back to normal’.

240569 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Bee, replying to bluemoon, 3, #199 of 1790 🔗

That’s disappointing. Maybe my mum caught scepticism from me? I have been gently nudging her for some time.

240597 ▶▶▶▶ steph, replying to bluemoon, 3, #200 of 1790 🔗

Are the majority even on Gransnet? Most mums I know are not on Mumsnet. They are non representative groups but do like to shout in their echo chambers. Much as we do here!
Not sure how we find out what the majority really think. Most polls are also skewed with leading questions.

241598 ▶▶▶▶▶ Christine, replying to steph, 1, #201 of 1790 🔗

I’m 71. Certainly not on gransnet – ‘gran’ used like this is insulting. But If it helps the discussion I can say that most of my friends are terrified of catching and dying of covid. The daily briefings and messasges of doom have sunk into their psyche and there is nothing I can say to reassure them.

240692 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to bluemoon, 4, #202 of 1790 🔗

“Get back to normal” Oh deary deary me.

241162 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to bluemoon, #203 of 1790 🔗

As Prof. Livermore argued in his article on the mink related problems, for them, the risk reward ratio of that vaccine is OK. The problem is, for anyone below the age of 65 it is very negative, and a disaster for people still wanting to reproduce and for all children.
And that is only a problem for commercial reasons and because we swallowed the ‘herd immunity exists’ myth pill instead of questioning it, see Gatti, Montanari and RKjrs CHD on that.

241319 ▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to bluemoon, 1, #204 of 1790 🔗

My experience too. Have asked many. Church congregations seem especially compliant. Not got much time to get them asking questions, and this is a huge number of people who could instead be quietly resisting.

Suggest anyone with contacts or membership stop being polite and start educating them

240696 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Mr Bee, 4, #205 of 1790 🔗

And the government will say: No problem, you can remain locked up, sorry, shielded. Just let us now when you’re ready to come out to take the vaccine. It’s here waiting for you.

240775 ▶▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to Mr Bee, 3, #206 of 1790 🔗

I’ve an 81 year old friend who doesn’t want it.

241152 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Mr Bee, 1, #207 of 1790 🔗

That generation isn’t the problem anyway.
It’s the self-righteous ‘know it all and accept no other opinion’ millennials and GenZ, who also brainwashed quite a few of their boomer and Xer parents, who are.

240651 ▶▶ DocRC, replying to Peter Thompson, 11, #208 of 1790 🔗

Straw poll of my medical colleagues reveals the same result!

240974 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to DocRC, 1, #209 of 1790 🔗

That is very encouraging to hear.

240673 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Peter Thompson, 9, #210 of 1790 🔗

They will be threatened with their jobs. Tell them to speak up now and join groups promoting freedom of choice.

240764 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Peter Thompson, 15, #211 of 1790 🔗

I’m not an “anti-vaxxer” either. I’ve been vaccinated multiple times. My children were all vaccinated according to the advised schedule.

BUT, ironically, this entire episode has made me become more informed about vaccines and as a result I am more sceptical about them than ever.

And the fact that they will try to shove this new vaccine down our throats will make me even more sceptical.

Ironic really.

241137 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Peter Thompson, 3, #212 of 1790 🔗

The fact that criticism in this and all other Covid related areas has only been diffamated, censored or ignored, rather than engaged with, built up a huge basis of scepticism and reluctance in that personal matter of life and death already.
Everyone also knows that the vaccine development was rushed and that manufa turners have offloaded their liabilities.
That created further scepticism and reluctance.
Threatening and discriminating against people to make them take it now, is increasing that scepticism and reluctance only further.
And that is before one engages with their novelty and for decades unknowable longterm risks, resulting in their poor risk/reward ratio for children, anyone who still wants to reproduce and that potential offspring.
Logic, responsibility in case of parents and self-preservation simply dictate a pass for most people under the age of 65 for many more years.

240470 Adamb, replying to Adamb, 2, #213 of 1790 🔗

Good but somewhat depressing article by Philip Johnston in the Telegraph this morning

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/11/10/vaccines-siren-song-threatens-trap-us-even-longer-lockdown/

241305 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Adamb, 1, #214 of 1790 🔗

He writes: Normal seasonal flu kills around 5,000 people in the UK,

That’s bollox! More like at least 20,000 and it was 50,000 in 2017/18

as the clock ticks down and the infection rate remains high,
More bollox!

240472 John Stone, 8, #215 of 1790 🔗

To be clear Boris has been planning to get the “antivaxxers” off the web since August 2019. The issue not really is actually ridding the web of any vaccine criticism at all, and it has nothing to do with the Russians. Plainly the man is a vile despot, but almost no one would have understood in 2019 how critical the vaccine issue could become.

https://www.ageofautism.com/2020/02/uk-law-commissioner-threatens-criminal-action-against-vaccine-critics.html

240474 Jonathan Lawrence, 18, #216 of 1790 🔗

Please stop using the term anti-vaxxer. It is a catch all term that includes the mildly sceptical. It polarises the topic in favour of those pushing vaccines for corporate profits.

240481 Bugle, 10, #217 of 1790 🔗

Well done, DM. Now ask the public if they fancy a Covipass and ID before they can go shopping maskless.

240483 John Stone, replying to John Stone, 8, #218 of 1790 🔗

My letter BMJ on-line 27 August 2020

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3099/rr-5

Regarding the Use of the Term “Anti-Vaxxer”
Dear Editor
Thank you Karyse Day [1] for drawing attention to the problem of the bias and intimidation inherent in the term “anti-vaxxer”. The term has been around perhaps since the 19th century but has evolved a new context. Three years ago I drew attention to the remarks of Seth Berkley, director of the vaccine lobby organisation GAVI, in the Spectator proposing that “anti-vaxxers” be excluded from social media, which meant in effect not only that certain people should not be allowed on social media but that criticism of vaccines should not be allowed on a generic basis – an extremely serious matter[2].
Unfortunately, this has also been a hobby-horse of the present Prime Minister. In August last year Reuter’s recorded Boris Johnson as saying [3]:
“I’m afraid people have just been listening to that superstitious mumbo-jumbo on the internet, all that anti-vax stuff…”
On 24 September 2020 he told the UN [4]:
“There are today people who are still actually anti-science, a whole movement called ‘the anti-vaxxers’ who refuse to acknowledge the evidence that vaccinations have eradicated smallpox and who by their prejudices are actually endangering the very children they want to protect.”
By February this year the Sunday Telegraph was reporting [5]:
“Posting anti-vaccine propaganda on social media could become criminal offence, Law Commissioner says
New Law Commissioner Penney Lewis is leading wide-ranging review into whether UK’s offence and abuse laws are fit for the Social Media age…”
And once again the Prime Minister was quoted last month [6]:
“There’s all these anti-vaxxers now,” Johnson told medical workers at a doctor’s surgery in London. “They are nuts, they are nuts.”
While there are a lot of very fed up people I am extremely dubious there is a movement called “the anti-vaxxers” or that they are posting propaganda: at the very best this is a simplistic claim [7,8]. At a time when the government is supposedly trying to earn trust for a range of potential SAR-CoV-2 vaccines the continued disparagement and repression of people who raise questions about a class of products – which after all cannot be inherently safe – speaks for itself. It creates an atmosphere of prejudice and intimidation – such as described in the Cumberlege review [9] and should be seen and understood for what it is.
[1] Karyse Day, ‘Re: Cumberlege review exposes stubborn and dangerous flaws in healthcare’, 25 August 2020, https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3099/rr-3
[2] John Stone, ‘ The Shadow War on Disease: Arbitrary, Oppressive and Unaccountable Medicine’, 9 July 2017, https://www.bmj.com/content/357/bmj.j2449/rr-13
[3] ‘UK’s Johnson slams ‘mumbo-jumbo’ about vaccines after measles rates rise’, Reuter’s 19 August 2020, https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-health/uks-johnson-slams-mumb
[4] United Kingdom – Prime Minister Addresses General Debate, 74th Session (UN 24 September 2019) @ 8.30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf4YEyh7erE&app=desktop
[5] Mike Wright, ‘Posting anti-vaccine propaganda on social media could become criminal offence, Law Commissioner says’, 1 February 2020, https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/02/01/posting-anti-vaccine-propaga
[6] ‘Johnson says anti-vaxxers ‘are nuts”, Reuter’s 24 July 2020, https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-britain-vaccinatio-
[7] John Stone, ‘An appeal to authority is not the same as an appeal to knowledge’, 15 May 2019, https://www.bmj.com/content/365/bmj.l2144/rr-0
[8] John Stone, ‘Brave new World’, 17 May 2019, https://www.bmj.com/content/365/bmj.l2144/rr-5
[9] Helen Haskell, ‘Cumberlege review exposes stubborn and dangerous flaws in healthcare’
BMJ 2020; 370 doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.m3099 (Published 06 August 2020)

241312 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to John Stone, #219 of 1790 🔗

Excellent letter

240484 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 29, #220 of 1790 🔗

I’m in favour of the vaccine

In March Professor Ferguson predicted that 700 people in my village would die of covid

Thanks to the actions of the government not one single person has died of covid in my village, yet!

Two periods of house arrest, 400 statutory instruments, shutting the pubs etc have saved 700 lives

I know it’s been hard, it breaks my heart too

We need a final big push, one final huge effort to get us over the line to victory

If we all pull together this will be over by Christmas

The lives of 700 people in my village are in your hands

Thank you

240499 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Cecil B, 15, #221 of 1790 🔗

They should hold a special “thank you” event in your village and honour Prof Ferguson with the privilege of being the first to take the vaccine in a public ceremony. Anything less would just be being ungrateful

240503 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to stewart, 2, #222 of 1790 🔗

Great idea, we will get in early as I can see him getting snowed under with invitations

240519 ▶▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to Cecil B, 3, #223 of 1790 🔗

It’s only a small prick…
And the hope of millions it will be the shot in the arm for society to wake up

240842 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Chris John, #224 of 1790 🔗

It’s only a small prick…

Ferguson ?

241467 ▶▶▶ TT, replying to stewart, 1, #225 of 1790 🔗

At least when they start dropping like flies from a toxic vaccine, the plebs will finally realize what a real pandemic looks and feels like.

241852 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to stewart, #226 of 1790 🔗

Then drop him in an unmarked grave.

240676 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Cecil B, 4, #227 of 1790 🔗

In my town (150,000+) we were told by the local self appointed community leader that we needed to lock down or 4,000 people would die. 60 have died with 92% over 70 years old.

240902 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Cecil B, #228 of 1790 🔗

We just can’t take you seriously can we Cecil?

241419 ▶▶ jim, replying to Cecil B, #229 of 1790 🔗

only if you believe the prediction

240486 Schrodinger, replying to Schrodinger, 10, #230 of 1790 🔗

Whilst reading the long list of collateral damage etc.(25 million GP appointments lost etc.)

I am struck by the fact that even if you accept the current figure of around 50,000 Covid deaths (remember this is people who died with a positive text – not who died because of the virus) this is still less than the number of annual deaths in the UK from air pollution (Source European Heart Journal).

The latter being considered a perfectly acceptable collateral risk for our society to function.

https://academic.oup.com/eurhe …/article/40/20/1590/5372326

240493 ▶▶ Schrodinger, replying to Schrodinger, 3, #231 of 1790 🔗

Oops correct link to the air pollution source

https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/article/40/20/1590/5372326

240497 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Schrodinger, 4, #232 of 1790 🔗

It did not, and does not require a positive test to put covid as a cause of death on a death certificate

240489 stewart, replying to stewart, 120, #233 of 1790 🔗

Ready for Bait and Switch no.2?

Remember how back in March we were all told to stay at home not to overwhelm the NHS? And remember how it was going to be just a few weeks to flatten the curve? A few weeks in, without a hint of debate the goal suddenly became to eliminate to virus. And 8 months in, we are still locked up and trying to eliminate the virus. That was bait and switch no.1.

Well, get ready for bait and switch no.2. For 8 months we’ve supposedly been trying to suppress this virus until a vaccine is produced. And when a vaccine comes, it will take time to roll out but eventually we can get back to normal. That has been the story. Except once the vaccine is out life will not get back to normal. The reason will be somewhere along the lines that the vaccine will not be the silver bullet we were misled to believe.

Prepare for some of the following excuses/arguments:

  • The vaccine doesn’t stop infections, it just alleviates the symptoms, so we still need to keep virus suppression measures in place (social distancing, masks)
  • The vaccine has only a temporary effect, and needs to be taken annually. And because this is a particularly dangerous virus (it isn’t but, you know) we still need suppression measures and track and trace capability to make sure the population is properly monitored.
  • The vaccine isn’t as effective on the elderly as we would have hoped and we are doing this for the elderly and vulnerable so measures need to stay in place.
  • Other countries won’t have access to the vaccine, or won’t have rolled it out and so there will still need to be control measures for people coming and going from the UK, including quarantines.

In short, the vaccine is not going make anything go away. It’s just going to be an extra layer of misery.

We need to operate on the assumption that governments have stolen our civil liberties from us and have no intention whatsoever in giving them back.

240496 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to stewart, 25, #234 of 1790 🔗

Excellent summary that reflects my expectations completely, Stewart.

240498 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to stewart, 41, #235 of 1790 🔗

They might try this but I don’t think they’ll get away with it. Public anger will be far too great. A lot of people see the vaccine as their way out of this hell. People are so worn down now and will take any scrap of good news which may suggest normality is returning – hence why the vaccine was met with such enthusiasm the other day. If governments try to keep these restrictions in place AFTER the endgame, i.e. the vaccine, the public won’t stand for it and it’ll be curtains for leaders around the world.

240506 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Poppy, 48, #236 of 1790 🔗

Lockdown no.1 was also embraced with massive enthusiasm – of the panicked, frightened sort, but enthusiasm all the same.

Let me tell you why I think I’m not wrong.

The entire shit show we are currently living is based on two fundamental premises which have been widely accepted and are now very very difficult to overturn.

  1. This virus is especially dangerous and needs to be eliminated. This was the initial premise and remains the premise even after a mountain of facts prove otherwise. There is hard any political leaders in the world prepared to state the obvious – that the virus isn’t that dangerous. Anyone who claims it’s not that big a deal is written off as heartless, stupid or a conspiracist. Note how even those against all the measures don’t dare state the simple fact that this virus is not a big deal.
  2. The government has the right to dictate extreme healthcare measures on us to protect society. This was not the case before March. In March we gave away the responsibility for our health to the government and with it our freedom.

For as long as those two premises remain in place, we are never ever getting our lives back. Ever. And I don’t see either of those two premises being seriously challenged.

240532 ▶▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to stewart, 31, #237 of 1790 🔗

I definitely think (1) doesn’t hold as much water anymore. There is still a section of the public who genuinely believe that this is the most dangerous plague to ever blight humanity, but that section grows smaller by the day. Before Lockdown 2, the streets, bars, restaurants and shops were I live were almost as full as they were in normal times, especially at a weekend. The streets were pretty busy as well. It’s funny, because before Lockdown 1, shops and restaurants emptied themselves out as the public stopped attending of their own accord, but everyone knew that Lockdown 2 was coming and the difference this time was that venues were rammed the day/night before November 5th as people wanted to get their last dose of freedom before being locked up again, because the public now know that the virus isn’t as dangerous as previously thought and that going out to these venues is perfectly ‘safe’ anyway.

Even now, in Lockdown 2, town is relatively busy given that most things are closed. If the majority of the public genuinely believed that this was an especially dangerous virus, do you think so many of them would be out and about? I agree with you that no political leaders in the world are saying it but the public definitely don’t agree with them. Massive protests across Europe as well (not widely reported in the MSM).

(2) is a bit more of a problem, but more and more MPs are becoming sceptical especially with this new Covid Recovery Group which will split the Tory party and put pressure on Johnson to return some freedoms in Parliament. We can hopefully rely a bit more on them now and a third national lockdown would be met with far more rebellion.

240586 ▶▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Poppy, 15, #238 of 1790 🔗

Agreed..

My impression is that there is much more covid scepticism than we generally think on this forum.

This vaccine announcement is there, because that has been realized, and they need to keep stringing us along.

241968 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to calchas, 6, #239 of 1790 🔗

I agree. I think the polls have been skewed to try to create the impression that many people support this madness. But I don’t think common sense has abandoned us all yet.

240607 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Poppy, 23, #240 of 1790 🔗

Well said Poppy. Apart from the die hard lockdownsitas and the brainwashed, more and more people are waking up especially if their jobs and livelihood are hanging by the balance.

Attitudes are definitely shifting as well. Once you had loads of people saying how much they enjoy working from home and that they’re saving money by not commuting. Fast forward now and more and more people are admitting that their physical and mental health is going down the toilet as a result of working from home.

241185 ▶▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Poppy, 10, #241 of 1790 🔗

Excellent to read such an intelligent, well argued and civilised exchange between Stewart and Poppy. I incline more to Poppy’s slightly more optimistic view, but I do think that we’ll need to keep up the pressure to get back to normal, otherwise the restrictions will stay in place.

242118 ▶▶▶▶▶ sam, replying to Poppy, 3, #242 of 1790 🔗

after having only 2 friends and my brother agree with me for many months i just met a wonderful whole family of sceptics yesterday and today another wonderful sceptic, no way will any of them get the vaccine , are all against masks and lockdowns . i’m feeling so much better .

240905 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to stewart, 7, #243 of 1790 🔗

I was out and about from the start of lockdown 1 having self isolated the previous week and was apprehensive for the first three for four weeks.
However I was coming into contact with hospital and healthcare workers so knew after less than aa month that the worst was over and had not been as bad as feared.
If frontline workers were telling me this why weren’t they telling the government? Partly because all the management had buffered off WFH leaving them to it.

Lockdown 2. I believe most people think it socially necessary to appear worried and concerned. If you counter ‘oh dear so many people are dying’
with, for example
” no they are not, far more people are dying from normal flu, the government and newspapers are lying to you especially the BBC”
They are likely to come back with something like
‘Yes I know they are and I never watch the BBC it’s so full of rubbish do you think we’ll be in lockdown at Xmas’

Not a single person has yet asked what I think about the vaccine probably because they think themselves guilty of wrongthink.

240508 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Poppy, 21, #244 of 1790 🔗

I think the problem is that the regime will never feel comfortable giving people space to think and reflect on what’s happened. Panic and control for ever.

240513 ▶▶▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to Ovis, 6, #245 of 1790 🔗

This is my fear also.

240581 ▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Ovis, 15, #246 of 1790 🔗

Then we must take our reedom back ourselves.

Not wait for it to be given back,

240512 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Poppy, 2, #247 of 1790 🔗

What’s the ‘endgame’? Waiting five to ten years until the vaccine is approved?

240527 ▶▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to Cecil B, 16, #248 of 1790 🔗

The vaccine has been portrayed as being the ‘endgame’ and a ‘miracle’ of science and only a month away. Literally. Headline in the Telegraph this morning says that NHS being told to prepare for mass vaccination on 1 Dec this year. This is why the public think the vaccine is an acceptable ‘endgame’, because it has been produced so quickly, far quicker than an ordinary vaccine timeline, and can therefore end restrictions after only (!) 8 months of them.

However, the end of the Pfizer trial isn’t until December 2022 – as it should be, these things should take several years. If the vaccine is going to be developed and tested properly, then I would expect it to take 5-10 years as you say. In that scenario, a vaccine cannot be an endgame because we cannot lockdown for 5-10 years, no matter what anyone says, it’s just unsustainable and even the patience of the zealots will not stretch that long. A vaccine should never be an endgame in my personal opinion because introducing restrictions and lifting them only based on the vaccine contingency creates massive uncertainty. A vaccine may take years (and should take years). It is just a bonus, not the end.

However as I said, a lot of people don’t believe we’ll be waiting 5-10 years for this because it’s been ‘fast tracked’. That’s why they think it’s an acceptable endgame.

242183 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Poppy, 2, #249 of 1790 🔗

We have been told to accept an unlicensed hardly tested experimental vaccine, that they admit doesn’t work that well, in respect of an illness which needs, an unfit for purpose, test to let you know that you have it, when almost certainly you don’t at all.

People who haven’t yet smelled a great big stinking dead rodent will be complicit in their own downfall, when they voluntarily bare their arms for these dodgy vaccines. Of course, the biggest villains will still be the corrupt UK government and the vaccine overlord himself, Bill Gates.

240575 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Poppy, 7, #250 of 1790 🔗

Yes Poppy!

It is up to us.

240757 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Poppy, 16, #251 of 1790 🔗

Public anger may increase but the government are taking down any sites of opposition/dissent.
> Social media Facebook/twitter sites (group and personal) are being taken down.
> The protests are are met with extraordinary police presence and brutish behaviour and arrests by the police.
> Threatening any discussion on vaccine and suggestion of legal action of people who express an alternative opinion on the vaccine

So the ‘establishment’ are blocking any resistance or alternative discussion on their narrative. This is the most frightening aspect of all this and is what you might expect in north korea/china etc but UK??!!

240989 ▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Sue, 9, #252 of 1790 🔗

It’s not just the UK, the same thing is happening all over the world.

241081 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Sue, 8, #253 of 1790 🔗

I think the resistance in all countries does and urgently needs to react to these threats.
They need to establish their own, independent TV channels where possible (Trump), they need to migrate in droves away from Twitter, FB, youtube&co to Telegram, Parker, Bitchute&co and they need to establish uncontrollable, old-fashioned means of disseminating their Viewpoints.
In Germany, the resistance is quite successfully distributing millions of leaflets to households through a network of 40.000
Freedom Couriers.

242128 ▶▶▶▶▶ sam, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #254 of 1790 🔗

this is a great idea . talking to people one by one . the more we talk to people the more we ‘ll find out there are many more of us than we thought .
i like the trump tv idea too

241970 ▶▶▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to Sue, 3, #255 of 1790 🔗

This kind of totalitarian reaction usually comes when the public starts to see through the lies. So we are doing something right.

240805 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Poppy, 5, #256 of 1790 🔗

I wish New Zealand well but it will be interesting to see if their first wave finally arrives after the vaccine is available.

242225 ▶▶▶▶ Ben Pattinson, replying to karenovirus, #257 of 1790 🔗

From NZ, agree it will be intersting to see what happens when covid-19 finally gets here and establishes for the ‘frist wave’ (viruses only do one wave when it is actually novel). If after the vaccine this is a very good contrlol to see if wave behaves any differnetly to rest of the world this march/april.
Have to say living here in NZ now is great, and perhaps we have been saved, not from the virus but from worst maddenss of governments over reacting.

240819 ▶▶▶ Nic, replying to Poppy, 9, #258 of 1790 🔗

Agree I was at the manchester demo on sunday . People are getting seriously pissed off

241686 ▶▶▶ Ndovu, replying to Poppy, 1, #259 of 1790 🔗

There will certainly be many more mass demonstrations – of course news of those will be suppressed, so we may or may not hear of them.

240733 ▶▶ Sue, replying to stewart, 12, #261 of 1790 🔗

I fear exactly this scenario too! The vaccine will be another layer of crap to the existing crap they’ve inflicted on us. Government/parliament have no intention of ending this shitshow – they are enjoying it too much. People are too hood winked into believing the government are doing this for our benefit – yeah right!

241060 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to stewart, 3, #262 of 1790 🔗

I am a bit more optimistic.
As they will run out of money soon, and as more and more people are running out of patience already, they will have to find a way to end all restrictions.
That way is already well known, of course:
Standardize the PCR test down to a CT of 24+/-.
Thereby, Zero-Covid is achieved within a week, the vaccine can be credited for that (even if it administered as a placebo only, as it should be), the lockdowns, masks et. all can also be credited and justified, and people can begin to start of dying of the flu and old age again.

240490 Frank, 6, #263 of 1790 🔗

reading your piece on testing in Liverpool. if the numbers are close to reality, it does pose the question if we do need a vaccine, which is useless as soon as there is a mutation (like stated in Danmark

240529 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to rose, 6, #265 of 1790 🔗

Great link

How COVID-19 Vaccine Can Destroy Your Immune System

  • According to a study that examined how informed consent is given to COVID-19 vaccine trial participants, disclosure forms fail to inform volunteers that the vaccine might make them susceptible to more severe disease if they’re exposed to the virus
  • Previous coronavirus vaccine efforts — including those for SARS, MERS and RSV — have revealed a serious concern: The vaccines have a tendency to trigger antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE)
  • ADE means that rather than enhance your immunity against the infection, the vaccine actually enhances the virus’ ability to enter and infect your cells, resulting in more severe disease than had you not been vaccinated
  • Lethal Th2 immunopathology is another potential risk. A faulty T cell response can trigger allergic inflammation, and poorly functional antibodies that form immune complexes can activate the complement system, resulting in airway damage
  • There’s evidence showing the elderly — who are most vulnerable to severe COVID-19 and would need the vaccine the most — are also the most vulnerable to ADE and Th2 immunopathology

Participants in current COVID-19 vaccine trials are not being told of this risk — that by getting the vaccine they may end up with more severe COVID-19 once they’re infected with the virus.

.

Experiments have shown immunization with a variety of SARS vaccines resulted in pulmonary immunophathology once challenged with the SARS virus.

.

SARS Vaccine Worsens Infection After Challenge With SARS-CoV

240531 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Victoria, 7, #266 of 1790 🔗

Comment to this article

240561 ▶▶▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to Victoria, 4, #267 of 1790 🔗

Has anyone mentioned that link to the procurement site Simon Dolan put up?

‘The MHRA urgently seeks an Artificial Intelligence (AI) software tool to process the expected high volume of Covid-19 vaccine Adverse Drug Reaction (ADRs) and ensure that no details from the ADRs’ reaction text are missed.”

https://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:506291-2020:TEXT:EN:HTML&src=0

Very bizarre.

241030 ▶▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Sceptic Hank, #268 of 1790 🔗

Crikey !

241252 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Sceptic Hank, #269 of 1790 🔗

interesting .. this dates back a few months as tender date was september and the contract already awarded to Genpact a US company with $3.6billion t/o.
Worryingly, the justification for this contract was as below – note my highlights …. what volume do they expect above what their systems already handle
Explanation:
For reasons of extreme urgency under Regulation 32(2)(c) related to the release of a Covid-19 vaccine MHRA have accelerated the sourcing and implementation of a vaccine specific AI tool.
Strictly necessary — it is not possible to retrofit the MHRA’s legacy systems to handle the volume of ADRs that will be generated by a Covid-19 vaccine . Therefore, if the MHRA does not implement the AI tool, it will be unable to process these ADRs effectively. This will hinder its ability to rapidly identify any potential safety issues with the Covid-19 vaccine and represents a direct threat to patient life and public health.
Reasons of extreme urgency — the MHRA recognises that its planned procurement process for the SafetyConnect programme, including the AI tool, would not have concluded by vaccine launch. Leading to a inability to effectively monitor adverse reactions to a Covid-19 vaccine.
Events unforeseeable — the Covid-19 crisis is novel and developments in the search of a Covid-19 vaccine have not followed any predictable pattern so far.

241666 ▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Sceptic Hank, #270 of 1790 🔗

Oh just bung it in an Excel spreadsheet, it’ll be good

240935 ▶▶ James Bertram, replying to rose, #271 of 1790 🔗

Thank you, Rose.
Emailed it to my doctors surgery.
Used this link:
https://www.editorials360.com/2020/11/11/how-covid-19-vaccine-can-destroy-your-immune-system/

240500 alw, replying to alw, 38, #272 of 1790 🔗

None of my medic friends will have the vaccine or recommend it. Spoke to someone I know who worked for Pfizer they won’t either. All say the development of vaccine takes 5+years and needs evaluation.

240518 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to alw, 10, #273 of 1790 🔗

The trouble is before long you will need proof of vaccination to do things, it would not surprise me if they made it a condition of travel on main line trains that you had been vaccinated, they may in future only renew your passport or driving licence if you have been vaccinated, you may need to have been vaccinated to get hospital treatment. So the vaccination will be voluntary just as long as you are OK living as a hermit in a cave.

240522 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Steve Martindale, 16, #274 of 1790 🔗

I think we need to call their bluff on this type of talk. I can’t see us being locked in gulags or denied services. It would be an expensive logistical nightmare and the country is potless.

240784 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #275 of 1790 🔗

Yet here we are under house arrest and being denied services and they have not started trying to force the vaccine on us yet. When it comes to implementing our totalitarian future clearly cost is not a factor.

240713 ▶▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Steve Martindale, 8, #276 of 1790 🔗

Prom memory, does the Nuremberg Code not prohibit endorcement or coercing to accept medical interventions. Amazing how silent all the human rights lawyers are,
Off to press apples for cider – at least some distraction from all this.

240782 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #277 of 1790 🔗

yes i think this is the end-game to have your “proof” to engage in society.
It will be interesting how the ‘conscientious objectors’ whose personal choice is not to have the vaccine, and those groups who may be exempt from taking the vaccine for medical reasons maybe, or as someone here mentioned security services and others will be treated.
The propoganda will be endless that you have to have the jab for the greater good, “to save your granny” and other emotional bullshit.

240889 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #278 of 1790 🔗

We may need to have been vaccinated to stop the sky falling on our heads !

Surely doom and gloom is for the brainwashed ? We are the resistance, and need to focus on what we want, rather than the wet dreams of impotent psychopaths.

240530 ▶▶ Sophie123, replying to alw, 14, #279 of 1790 🔗

It’s going to be hard to do post approval evaluation of safety as well, if you are reserving use for the 85 years and above. You can pretty much guarantee that a large chunk of your vaccinated patients are going to be dead of something or other within the following few years. So much for long term follow up.

240629 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to alw, 9, #280 of 1790 🔗

Like is said yesterday…Some of my friends still work for the various security services and they have ALL been told NOT to take the vaccine. What the fuck does that tell you!!?? People need to wake the fuck up!

240502 Censored Dog, replying to Censored Dog, 6, #281 of 1790 🔗

Wh

240908 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Censored Dog, 2, #282 of 1790 🔗

How did you get 4 upticks? 🙂

240516 John Stone, 5, #283 of 1790 🔗

My letter in on-line BMJ yesterday – Biden’s science and the freedom to be able to discuss vaccination:

But what about the swamp? Re: A US election victory for science and public health Robert Steinbrook. 371:doi 10.1136/bmj.m4325
Dear Editor
I am grateful to Robert Steinbrook [1]. Sixty years ago President Eisenhower famously wrapped up the problem in his farewell address [2]:
“Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity….
“The prospect of domination of the nation’s scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present and is gravely to be regarded.
“Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific/ technological elite…”
The language is different from our own time, the scale of the problem [now] incomparably worse. While Donald Trump manifestly failed “to drain the swamp” I am unaware of any real present plans to eject corporate interests from government or academic circles. For instance, we only have to look at the list of corporate partners in the CDC Foundation [3].
With all the pieties I wonder what policies or intent Joe Biden (who has already been Vice-President of the United States for eight years) actually has? In every direction government has become answerable to the lobbies rather than the people.
Finally, if we get a Covid vaccine will citizens have the freedom to discuss whether it is safe or not in public, or will they just be told?
[1] Robert Steinbrook, ‘A US election victory for science and public health’,
BMJ 2020; 371 doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.m4325 (Published 10 November 2020)
[2] https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/eisenhower001.asp
[3] https://www.cdcfoundation.org/partner-list/corporations

240517 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 35, #284 of 1790 🔗

It’s worth noting that the current campaign with grass-roots Republicans in the US to recount votes in certain states, confirming legal votes and exposing irregularities (and if there, fraud) is way more important than people think.

This is full-on narrative push back. A push for accountabilty. You may not like Trump, but I suspect you like truth and common sense more.

The media is running with Biden as President Elect and are basically calling Trump supporters bad losers. Yet analysis has been done on voting patterns and vote swapping showing clear algorithmic effects. And this is not even touching on voting processes being broken or ignored.

In the end if Biden won it will come out. Truth will come out. But it’s looking like a very different picture. The truth is being suppresed and as Scott Adams has been saying, there is brain washing event going on where the media is trying to tell you black is white and you shouldn’t look. The fact that the media is NOT pushing for transparency in itself is a red flag.

Precisely what we are seeing here in the UK.

The best disinfectant is sunlight

240560 ▶▶ IanE, replying to mhcp, 5, #285 of 1790 🔗

Hmm, yes, ‘bad losers’ – after 4 years of that from the demorats, they really are experts on that!

240571 ▶▶ kf99, replying to mhcp, 2, #286 of 1790 🔗

Biden standing on that podium proclaiming “Office of the President-Elect” was bizarre. Reminds me of Sturgeon grandly calling her underlings “Scottish Health Secretary” or whatever. But you would think the US constitution would be a lot “tighter” on these things

240525 Commander Jameson, replying to Commander Jameson, 2, #287 of 1790 🔗

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04368728?term=BNT162b2&draw=2&rank=3
tells us that the Pfizer study is placebo-controlled.

It would be nice to know exactly what placebo means in this instance as it can differ. It could be a saline solution, or it could be the full vaccine formulation minus the active ingredient. The former is better if you are looking primarily for safety signals (that might be due to non-active ingredients, the latter marginally preferable if you are looking primarily at efficacy.

The logic behind using a different vaccine as control would be to intentionally induce a comparable incidence of side effects in both groups, because this gives you better blinding. This is really important when the outcome is self-reported, as the patient suspecting they did or did not get the vaccine could influence whether they report Covid symptoms or not. There are many drugs that produce classic side effects for which blinded trials are never done, because it isn’t possible to blind them.

The Astra Zeneca trial does appear to be using a saline placebo at least in the US and some countries other than Brazil: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04516746?term=azd1222&draw=2&rank=1

Having both type of control group will be useful.

240615 ▶▶ kf99, replying to Commander Jameson, #288 of 1790 🔗

Assuming volunteers are self-selecting “believers” presumably the slightest symptoms would make you subconciously distance more, go out less, etc, therefore skewing the results (if this is side effects of the real vaccine). I imagine all this is allowed for?

240739 ▶▶▶ Commander Jameson, replying to kf99, 1, #289 of 1790 🔗

As long as the believers are equally distributed in the active and placebo groups they should have the same impact on the results in both groups. Over- (or under-) reporting could potentially influence the final relative risk calculation, but is unlikely to change the conclusion as to whether there is an effect of the vaccine or not.

240774 ▶▶ djaustin, replying to Commander Jameson, 2, #290 of 1790 🔗

Anecdotal reports are that it is relatively easy to be unblinded by absence of an immune response, especially after a second dose. I think an active vaccine control was a more sensible idea. Or an adjuvent for adjuvented vaccines (which stimulate a response and is standard placebo). I’m also wary of the first in class. It’s an impressive result for sure, and proves than mRNA can induce antigen production that then produces antibody production and protection (from disease at least). How long that protection lasts will be crucial. For reference, Lipitor was the fourth statin to market 🙂 Seldom is the first the winner, but we shall see.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3108295/

240833 ▶▶▶ Commander Jameson, replying to djaustin, 3, #291 of 1790 🔗

Agree. Vaccines are not my thing but I do wonder if adjuvants, and excipients in general are studied adequately. It’s not as if we don’t care if these have any important safety effects, we should rather care about that.

Placebo design can be a nightmare with oral forms and none of it is ideal. At least you don’t taste a vaccine, and presumably wouldn’t have to bulk an excipient/adjuvant placebo for a few missing mRNA strands.

We could be taking weekly or fortnightly swabs for PCR from participants instead. Get rid of the patient-reported outcome and blinding participants is less relevant, though you could get differential drop-out and other second-order effects. Given the huge difference in groups, even the specificity issue with PCR won’t matter much.

As mRNA makes distribution substantially harder, I do wonder why they are going that route. Ooops, just answered my own question…

241558 ▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Commander Jameson, #292 of 1790 🔗

Adjuvants are typically tested alongside the vaccine candidate for efficacy with arms including adjuvant and also unadjuvanted arm(s). But also tested separately for safety.

241692 ▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Commander Jameson, #293 of 1790 🔗

Like the monoclonal antibodies, I suspect that the mRNA vaccines will be the “Proof of Concept” that morbidity, and perhaps SARS-CoV2 infection can be prevented. Then along will come conventional normal distribution chain spike protein plus adjuvent vaccines, tested against placebo/adjuvent. I’d hope they were looking at regular swabs to PREVENT infection – symptoms are a pretty blunt tool. Hospitalisations will be even rarer (about 2%), deaths rarer still (0.4%). And of course it might all wear off in three months. Drug development has a habit of coming back to bite you!

Oral placebos and blinding can be a challenge. The “concrete” over-capsule of a comparator that changes its absorption has not been unknown either.

240526 steph, replying to steph, 41, #294 of 1790 🔗

The CRG needs to be much more robust if it aims to win back the hearts and minds of those of us who have given the Conservatives party the elbow after many years of support and membership.
If any of you 50 are reading, then well done for making a start but let’s be clear that nothing less than a rapid exit strategy will cut the mustard.
Test and Trace is of no value when a virus is endemic; you are just spending billions of our money chasing “cases”, many of which are false positives. NHS must be geared up to look at symptoms and only test following those.
The fear must be dismantled – good luck with that after months of deliberately terrifying the public – and all but the most vulnerable should go back to work, school and play. Vulnerable people should not be treated like children but given the full facts and allowed to decide for themselves.
All tier levels that existed prior to national lockdown should be dropped immediately by 1 level with a clear and rapid plan to exit completely.
Masks should no longer be compulsory anywhere as we know they do not work and are bad for health.
Too ambitious? No, just what a truly Conservative government would always have done

240543 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to steph, 7, #295 of 1790 🔗

“End the monopoly on advice from government scientists”

Sounds like a positive step forward by the CRG.

Also:

With the NHS primed for mass immunisations from December 1st, rather than it helping Biden, I see it as the ladder by which the government can climb down on December 2nd when lockdown can supposedly come to an end.

240555 ▶▶▶ steph, replying to Margaret, 2, #296 of 1790 🔗

Agree with your first point. We wrote to our MP early on saying that the PM needed a smaller but wider group to advise, including economists and other disciplines.
I’m not sure I understand you’re second point. Do you infer that we should take the vaccine? I’m all for vaccines and have had many but won’t have this one until it has completed full efficacy and safety checks. I’m not particularly interested in Biden at this point.

240694 ▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to steph, 5, #297 of 1790 🔗

Absolutely not. I won’t take the vaccine. Have even refused the flu one even though I’m not anti-vaccine per se.

Sorry, Steph, I didn’t make my second point clear. I meant that come December 2nd, when the lockdown should come to an end, Bozo can say: “ Look folks, we can all get back to normal now as we have a vaccine”. It all seems a bit too convenient that the NHS are primed for Dec. 1st and lockdown ends in Dec. 2nd.

I’m not interested in Biden either. It was a reference to Toby’s piece above.

240558 ▶▶ IanE, replying to steph, 6, #298 of 1790 🔗

Personally, I won’t be wooed by even these ‘rebels’. Too often (i.e. pretty well always) we have seen politicians say what they think will gain them popularity, only to do the complete reverse as soon as they get power.

240612 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to steph, 6, #299 of 1790 🔗

Great post. Totally Agree

Test and Trace is of no value when a virus is endemic; you are just spending billions of our money chasing “cases”, many of which are false positives. NHS must be geared up to look at symptoms and only test following those.


The T&T thing should be stopped with immediate effect – it has no value and haemorrhage money

240534 CGL, replying to CGL, 15, #300 of 1790 🔗

Is it an anti-vax myth to say that it takes 5-10 years to test them properly?
Asking for a friend.

240542 ▶▶ annie, replying to CGL, 2, #301 of 1790 🔗

It depends what problems come up. One meningitis vaccine took twenty years.

https://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/vk/vaccine-development

240709 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to CGL, 3, #302 of 1790 🔗

You cannot fast track time and long term tests obviously can’t be done in weeks or months.

241578 ▶▶ Sophie123, replying to CGL, #303 of 1790 🔗

It depends. It typically takes a long time because it’s often 2 steps forward, one step back with vaccines, to find a candidate that elicits a good immune response and is safe and is durable. It’s designing the antigen that takes the time.

The big Phase 3 studies usually take 3 years or so, for a seasonal infection. Recruitment and getting enough data (infections) are the rare limiting steps. But with COVID you have a lot of people jumping up and down to sign up and it seems the incidence of symptomatic infection is high enough to do your studies at a reasonable clip. I doubted this last part, but seems I was wrong.

As well as efficacy across the target age groups, you should be looking for rarer side effects like Guillan Barré and so on. Sometimes these are not spotted until it is in post marketing surveillance. Another risk is Antibody Dependent Enhancement.

240535 THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 16, #304 of 1790 🔗

Sent a tweet thread to Prof Mills about vaccines and the law:
Hi @melindacmills
concerned to read reports of an anti vaccine paper, submitted for review and signed off by SAGE, using methods employed by the Communist Republic of China to imprison dissenters to a CV19 Vaccine.

We at TRNP fully support a new vaccine and would take it when proven in the normal channels to be safe. However, since the outbreak in Wuhan could have been isolated more effectively had doctors not been imprisoned when raising the alarm of this new disease, we find it worrying you want to emulate a nation that has an abysmal human rights track record.

Further to this, some people who have genuine concerns over the long term safety of a new vaccine (knowing how long they usually take to develop & prove safe/effective & worry about future biological problems like pregnancy issues ) should not be thrown in the same camp as the crank ‘Anti Vaxxers’ – who we don’t support – I’ve had all my jabs!

If we look at the lockdown as being a vaccine in testing – it would never pass as we know the damage lockdown does to the healthy population. I hope that driving this vaccine through will not damage democracy in a similar way, just because you don’t want decent against it.

It’s becoming a hallmark of academics to not believe that the normal person is equiped to think for themselves, therefore requiring heavy handedness or censorship. I implore you, trust the people of this nation. Enough will take the vaccine if it’s proven safe, and will not require the use of law to silience those who won’t.

All that will do is drive reasoned debate down a dark, authoritarian alley. Something I believe we both don’t want. Good luck in your endevours to bring a safe vaccine! All the best, TRNP!

https://therealnormalpodcast.buzzsprout.com/

240536 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 37, #305 of 1790 🔗

Reading about the Royal Society’s stance on suppressing free speech and robust debate made my blood boil. My knowledge of science is only elementary level but even I a science moron knows that ideas have to be tested properly and debated rigorously in the open if its to be accepted.

These tossers sound like those in the Inquisition who want to silence heresy by persecuting those who don’t agree with the prevailing orthodoxy. If anything having “Royal” before their organisation name is such an abomination that it should be removed after this shit show is over.

If the 2008 recession has led to the public losing faith in the bankers and seeing them as parasites, 2020 will be the year when the public turn on science and scientists as well as academics. I predict that from now on, every time a scientist opens their mouth, no-one will believe them and think that they’re the stooge of Big Pharma and Big Business.

240540 ▶▶ annie, replying to Bart Simpson, 20, #306 of 1790 🔗

It was the President if the Riyal Shitshow who said, on no evidence, that everybody should be nappied.
It’s a short step from there to ‘everybody should be gagged’.

240545 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, 6, #307 of 1790 🔗

Yep. This pretty much reeks of the Great Purges even affecting scientists where those who opposed the theories of Trofim Lysenko on genetics were sacked from their posts and forbidden to do their research.

Result: the study of genetics is Russia fell behind the West for decades until the 1980s.

240606 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to annie, 6, #308 of 1790 🔗

From Nullius in verba to “Shut Up!” in 360 years. Perhaps the Archbishop could work that into his next sermon whenever that might be.

240546 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Bart Simpson, 10, #309 of 1790 🔗

People seem to forget that Nazism was based largely on eugenics. This was a very popular field of scientific enquiry in the late 19th and early 20th century promoted by many scientists.

Science and scientists are held in too high esteem.

240609 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to stewart, 3, #310 of 1790 🔗

Very popular with Fabians and their posh ilk. Planned Parenthood is the bastard offspring of that mindset. Freakonomics has interesting analysis of the effect on US crime statistics.

240616 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to stewart, 6, #311 of 1790 🔗

Exactly. I recently read an article about Winston Churchill and science where it said that while he was interested in science and held scientists in high esteem, he also warned about treating them like Gods and thinking that they had the answer to everything.

Dwight Eisenhower in his farewell address the night before he left office pretty much said the same thing.

240636 ▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to stewart, 6, #312 of 1790 🔗

Eugenics was widely taught in Oxford and Cambridge . Hitler actually got the idea from reading an English paper about it..Britain supplied 2 of the most potent weapons of Nazis. Eugenics and concentration camps

240643 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Thomas_E, 1, #313 of 1790 🔗

Houston Stewart Chamberlain who moved to Germany popularised the idea over there and his writings became influential.

240884 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Thomas_E, 1, #314 of 1790 🔗

Evidence for any of that balls?

Upon returning from Germany in 1934, where more than 5,000 people per month were being forcibly sterilized, the California eugenics leader C. M. Goethe bragged to a colleague:

You will be interested to know that your work has played a powerful part in shaping the opinions of the group of intellectuals who are behind Hitler in this epoch-making program. Everywhere I sensed that their opinions have been tremendously stimulated by American thought… I want you, my dear friend, to carry this thought with you for the rest of your life, that you have really jolted into action a great government of 60 million people.

Eugenics researcher Harry H. Laughlin often bragged that his Model Eugenic Sterilization laws had been implemented in the 1935 Nuremberg racial hygiene laws .

240608 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #315 of 1790 🔗

If you have the time and inclination, because it’s still actually a head scratcher, look up the Aether Wind and the Michelson-Morley experiment.

Here was the Royal Society fully on board with something that Maxwell had shown was unnecessary a decade or so previously. Because it played into the interest in paranormal and supernatural things.

240619 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to mhcp, #316 of 1790 🔗

Will check it it. Sounds interesting.

240537 Tania Edwards, replying to Tania Edwards, 1, #317 of 1790 🔗

I

241478 ▶▶ TT, replying to Tania Edwards, #318 of 1790 🔗

Testing the waters…?

240541 captainbeefheart, replying to captainbeefheart, 47, #319 of 1790 🔗

I heard some (more) bad news last night that someone we went to school with died on Tuesday in hospital.

He had problems with alcohol and a few other minor mental health problems. He stopped drinking years ago and was getting much better, but apparently went back on the drink a couple of weeks ago (well, there’s not much else to do is there?)

I’m not too sure exactly what happened, but he collapsed after drinking too much and ended up in hospital where apparently he “caught” C19 (aka tested positive).

He died on Tuesday.

He was 40 years old.

R.I.P

(Dear Nadine Dorries, this was another one of your constituents – you say there are no problems with mental health? You evil bitch!)

I fear I’m going to hear many more stories like this.

Every morning I wake I wish I could go back to sleep, I sometimes feel like jumping in front of a train and getting it over with. All these dark thoughts – I don’t think I’m going to be happy ever again.

240547 ▶▶ steph, replying to captainbeefheart, 16, #320 of 1790 🔗

Upticked you even though it felt disrespectful. These stories must be heard.

240550 ▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to steph, 9, #321 of 1790 🔗

I think it was actually Monday when he died. Days are a bit of a blur at the moment…

240551 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to steph, 15, #322 of 1790 🔗

Likewise. So sad and I too fear many more such stories as a consequence of lockdowns.

You will be happy again CBH. We all will.

240548 ▶▶ stewart, replying to captainbeefheart, 13, #323 of 1790 🔗

Get outdoors and stay away from any media.

240549 ▶▶ annie, replying to captainbeefheart, 18, #324 of 1790 🔗

For the sake of your poor friend, cast off the dark thoughts, be strong, and live to see him avenged on the fiends who now rule us, but whose doom is sealed.

240566 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to annie, 5, #325 of 1790 🔗

Well, I wish their doom was indeed sealed; maybe at the pearly gates, but here on Earth they will doubtless get their regular pay rises, perks and, in due course, elevation to the House of Frauds.

240553 ▶▶ chaos, replying to captainbeefheart, 24, #326 of 1790 🔗

I may lose my home soon because of this scamdemic.. please keep going.. I am trying to.. so you must.

240563 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to chaos, 9, #327 of 1790 🔗

Jesus.

Lockdown advocates are criminals playing god.

241862 ▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to chaos, 1, #328 of 1790 🔗

Sorry to hear this – before this happened, most people where two disasters away from losing our homes, now most people are just 0.3 disasters away

Thanks for everyone’s replies today by the way…

240554 ▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to captainbeefheart, 7, #329 of 1790 🔗

Numeroud friends are suffering. Honestly can recommend ‘Mood Gym’ for home CBT. It’s something we should all do – even in normal times. https://moodgym.com.au/

240556 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 2, #330 of 1790 🔗

And if that doesn’t help enough.. then a couple of spoons of inositol and glycine in a cup of tea… and a magnesium tablet or two at night..

240588 ▶▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to chaos, 3, #331 of 1790 🔗

and a dose of MCT oil laced with CBD and THC to reduce stress levels. not doped up but less highly strung. beats hitting the bottle

241111 ▶▶▶▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to Chris John, 2, #332 of 1790 🔗

CBD should be given to everyone! Love the stuff. Had a knackered shoulder for years. 2 weeks on CBD and it’s never bothered me again.

240594 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to captainbeefheart, 4, #333 of 1790 🔗

Chap walked into the sea at Harty Ferry yesterday it appears, he won’t be the last.

240622 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to captainbeefheart, 2, #334 of 1790 🔗

Im so sorry, wish there was something I could do to help you.

240623 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to captainbeefheart, 8, #335 of 1790 🔗

Very sorry to hear this. Incidents like this should be sent to Nadine Dorries because obviously she thinks that mental health issues and suicides due to lockdown don’t exist.

240631 ▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #336 of 1790 🔗

She stopped replying to me years ago. She also stopped replying to lots of friends who have wrote to her.

Like many MPs, she simply does not care.

240647 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to captainbeefheart, 6, #337 of 1790 🔗

Doesn’t surprise me. Many MPs and public figures I suspect have thin skins and this refusal to engage like that tosser from Liverpool shows that deep down they know that either their arguments are weak or they have no proof to back up their points so they hide under the cover of “we refuse to discuss this further”

240796 ▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to captainbeefheart, 1, #338 of 1790 🔗

too wrapped up in their own self importance in their westminster bubble!

240703 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to captainbeefheart, 6, #339 of 1790 🔗

“I don’t think I’m going to be happy ever again”.

That’s what they want, don’t let the evil bastards win.

240717 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to captainbeefheart, 8, #340 of 1790 🔗

Stay strong. I fell like this at least a couple of times a week and it does not help I suffer from C-PTSD. I have stopped watching the news in June and don’t follow MSM anymore. The last time I tried watching the news I lasted 5 min and then threw a phone ita the screen and shouted like a madman.

Go out, get some fresh air, read, listen to music and stay strong. You are not alone.

240990 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to captainbeefheart, 4, #341 of 1790 🔗

Sorry about your friend. There goes another one. So that’s more than 10 people I have heard mentioned on here and from talking to random strangers that have died as a result of the psy-op. People I will not forget.

240559 calchas, replying to calchas, 16, #342 of 1790 🔗

In his book Covid-19: The Great Reset, World Economic Forum globalist Klaus Schwab asserts that the world will “never” return to normal, despite him admitting that coronavirus “doesn’t pose a new existential threat.”

…….
“Namely, technocratic dictatorial rule by a tiny elite, the “green new deal,” the gradual abolition of private property, a guaranteed minimum wage that will see jobs replaced by robots, a crackdown on personal liberties and curtailing freedom of movement.

As we previously highlighted, the idea that the world will never return to normal post-COVID is being pushed by the establishment across the board.

A senior U.S. Army official said that mask wearing and social distancing will become permanent, while CNN’s international security editor Nick Paton Walsh asserted that the mandatory wearing of masks will become “permanent,” “just part of life,” and that the public would need to “come to terms with it.””

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/globalist-klaus-schwab-world-will-never-return-normal-after-covid

RESIST!

240567 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to calchas, 11, #343 of 1790 🔗

Indeed
Note that years ago they openly admitted that global warming is scientifically false but being used for political ends. But even so they managed to call people conspiracy theorists.
Calchas it’s worth repeating these quotes every day.
Instead of us getting used to masks, we need to get used to the fact that the globalist takeover is real and we must resist with everything we have.

240760 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to calchas, 2, #344 of 1790 🔗

Although he doesn’t come out and say it, Klaus Schwab, like some other globalists, clearly doesn’t like people and there will be no place for most of them in his wonderful reset world. Now how would you get several billions of people excitedly clamouring for their own termination?

241484 ▶▶▶ TT, replying to Rowan, #345 of 1790 🔗

Sorry to sound negative, but they already are !

240562 calchas, replying to calchas, #346 of 1790 🔗

The announcement may possibly have been delayed.

But , it didn’t work.

Because Trump won.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/trump-files-emergency-injunction-michigan-demands-recount-over-fraud-malfunctioning

240591 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to calchas, #347 of 1790 🔗

Orchestra just tuning up, fat lady putting on her slap, patience …

241874 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to calchas, #348 of 1790 🔗

Senator Diane Feinstein, Democrat, has been linked to this Dominion machine through a company owned by her husband. Something like that. I think that they had only been used in predominantly Democrat ridings.

240568 GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 9, #349 of 1790 🔗

The irony of SAGE signing off anything that contains the following paragraph was not lost on me this morning! Have a good day all.
“This information can be really damaging, and it’s clever how they spread it through memes and memorable things,” she said. “These groups are very skilled. They feed on fear, that little grain of truth, and they amplify it.

241877 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, #350 of 1790 🔗

Look who’s talking! The mind boggles.

240570 Basics, replying to Basics, 6, #351 of 1790 🔗

https://www.thefreedomcycle.com/covid/index.html – then seek out updates section.

“18.00 – COVID-1984 UPDATE | After the de facto government’s confirmation of the mandatory vaccination agenda yesterday, we are taking extraordinary action.
Whilst the additional charges against all those responsible will soon follow, at a certain time and place tomorrow, the initial charge in the PCP will be laid, alleging criminal fraud by non-disclosure against the secretary of state for mandatory vaxxtermination.
The single charge we are laying is by far the easiest to prove, of all the allegations we are making:
That he knowingly failed to disclose to Parliament that the lurgy [which has never been proven to exist] was reclassified as not being a High Consequence Infectious Disease [HCID], 13 days before the Coronavirus Act was enacted.
In the mind of any reasonable individual, had that information been disclosed to MP’s beforehand, it should easily have been enough for the bill to be rejected, on the ground that there was no serious public health risk to justify its enactment.
That alone should be enough to bring this criminal government down, but even if that does not transpire, we will do whatever it takes to reach that essential denouement.”

240655 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Basics, 1, #352 of 1790 🔗

Thanks good to get an update

240572 Will, 6, #353 of 1790 🔗

Is it possible to get a link to the piece about the Liverpool testing? Toby can do what he wants with his forum but I think linking today’s update to Facebook would alienate a lot of moderates but the Liverpool test piece is a brilliant piece of scientific analysis.

240574 Eddy, replying to Eddy, 12, #354 of 1790 🔗

Looks like Trump will win the official election. The media won’t be pleased at all. Poor BBC

240578 ▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to Eddy, 1, #355 of 1790 🔗

Where did you read this?

240580 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Sceptic Hank, 3, #356 of 1790 🔗

Scott Adams twitter has a good analysis. Will really cap off 2020 if it happens.

240582 ▶▶ steph, replying to Eddy, 14, #357 of 1790 🔗

Do you have a source please? I don’t like Trump but dislike Biden more. Lucky for me I’m not a voter in the US. On balance I’d like a Trump presidency because the people it would upset are my natural enemies.

240652 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Eddy, 10, #358 of 1790 🔗

Mike Pompeo certainly triggered the journos yesterday. Filing in Michigan last night:

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/trump-files-emergency-injunction-michigan-demands-recount-over-fraud-malfunctioning

If I remember correctly, the state has already said that 5000 votes cast for Trump were recorded for Biden. The same machine is used in other states. Additionally 10 other states Attorney Generals have filed an amicus brief in the Supreme Court challenge.

I cannot see Trump backing down. If he goes down, it will be after one hell of a fight. Go Trump Go!

240682 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #359 of 1790 🔗

If Trump proves fraud and wins the election the Democrats are going start the mother of all riots

240686 ▶▶▶▶ Eddy, replying to stewart, #360 of 1790 🔗

When, not if.

240872 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to stewart, 1, #361 of 1790 🔗

The riots have damaged Democrats so much that they’ve appointed Rahm Emanuel to sort out the Antifa kiddies. Poetic justice if it happens.

241891 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #362 of 1790 🔗

Rahm Emmanuel. One of Obama’s Chicago henchmen.

241889 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to stewart, #363 of 1790 🔗

So, they’re going to riot because their attempt to steal the election might end up being exposed as a nationwide exercise in fraud. Strange logic. Who needs ’em.

241898 ▶▶▶▶ Borisbullshit, replying to stewart, #364 of 1790 🔗

Send the national guard on them if they do.

240759 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #365 of 1790 🔗
240698 ▶▶ Eddy, replying to Eddy, 3, #366 of 1790 🔗

There is talk of a coup.

This is going to be a great movie.

240577 Joseph Collins, replying to Joseph Collins, 12, #367 of 1790 🔗

JeremyWarnerUK of the Telegraph says, “One of the treatments developed for countering Sars was later suspected of making recipients more prone to narcolepsy, though this may be just anti-vaxx scaremongering.”

No Jeremy there are many cases out there. Do your research. You as well Toby.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/07/why-pandemic-flu-shot-caused-narcolepsy

240583 ▶▶ Will, replying to Joseph Collins, 5, #368 of 1790 🔗

That is a brilliant piece of nudging by Warner. If he had spent four paragraphs ranting everyone would switch off, stimulate intellectual curiosity, people will look to discover things for themselves and then pass on the knowledge they have uncovered.

240590 ▶▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to Will, 4, #369 of 1790 🔗

I was thinking that too. You have to keep a distance in this debate to be taken seriously.

240618 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Sceptic Hank, 1, #370 of 1790 🔗

Which is why the Telegraph is doing such a good job.

240646 ▶▶▶ Joseph Collins, replying to Will, #371 of 1790 🔗

Good point. Perhaps that’s what he was doing given that he should really know better. I already knew about the damage cause by the vaccine hence his glib comment jumping out at me. The less curious among us will take it as truth.

240584 ▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to Joseph Collins, 2, #372 of 1790 🔗

There is insufficient research or consideration of genetic predispositions to certain conditions – which is how most adverse effects occur. Eg history of autoimmune in families etc. I’m sure that vaccine confidence would be far greater if this was considered instead of the one jab fits all approach.

240638 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Sceptic Hank, 6, #373 of 1790 🔗

You make a great point. Any person that experiences a bad reaction to a vaccine should think very carefully before taking another vaccine.

Always do your research and make an informed decision before taking a vaccine or prescribed drug.

240635 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Joseph Collins, 5, #374 of 1790 🔗

Pathetic Jeremy Warner – you either not do any research or try to whitewash the damage caused by this vaccine – narcolepsy is permanent brain damage.

Campaign for compensation

Narcolepsy campaigns for compensation for those who have developed narcolepsy as a result of Pandemrix vaccination. There are two potential routes to vaccine injury compensation. The first is the Vaccine Damage Payment scheme, a statutory scheme that provides a one-off tax-free payment of £120,000 to individuals who are severely disabled as the result of a vaccination. It is also possible to make a claim for compensation against the manufacturer of the vaccine in the civil courts.

https://www.narcolepsy.org.uk/resources/pandemrix-narcolepsy

240579 Nigel Sherratt, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #375 of 1790 🔗

Surprised the lazy subs didn’t link Pfizer’s vaccine and Viagra. Another magical ‘hokey shtick’.

240587 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 2, #376 of 1790 🔗

Come again? Could you perhaps provide more context for those of us who are ignorant of viagra-related matters?

240854 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Charlie Blue, 2, #377 of 1790 🔗

Round these parts we just stand downwind of the Pfizer lab at Sandwich and then head off for a bit of dogging.

240589 BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 11, #378 of 1790 🔗

Roller-coaster stuff today’s update.

Prof Mills is a dangerous individual. The fact that, as pointed out, she declares her support for free speech then goes on to advocate for the opposite, and still got the support of SAGE shows just how captured they are. Their focus is on mass vaccination and all is permitted to that end. Under such pretences it could be decided that your belief in anything could be deemed unsuitable, freedom of religion anyone?

I have to say that all the people have is our personal freedoms and I think that is where this battle is now heading. We are ignored in so many ways and out stake in our so called democracy has never been so diminished. We are being fed propaganda now and being threatened with jail for not acknowledging it as true. This is 1984!

“In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it. Not merely the validity of experience, but the very existence of external reality was tacitly denied by their philosophy.”

240617 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 16, #379 of 1790 🔗

On the basis of what she writes, I suggest, that like several other sociologists/behavioural scientists close to this shit show, she is a Marxist. Why is a Tory government listening to a group of Marxists? Perhaps because it has been captured, because some of the key movers and shakers are themselves Marxist, or because they are weak, lazy, incompetent liberal types who are inexperienced and divorced from the real world the majority of the population lives in? I don’t know the answer, and maybe it is a combination of several factors. One thing I am pretty clear on, however, is that Professor Mills is neither a scientist nor a medic and should therefore be ignored. She is entitled to her opinion, but no more than that.

240628 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #380 of 1790 🔗

Corporatism and Marxism do fit each other in very many ways.

https://www.voltairenet.org/IMG/pdf/Sutton_Wall_Street_and_the_bolshevik_revolution-5.pdf

240641 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to calchas, 2, #381 of 1790 🔗

Thanks for that. It is certainly my experience from the City, that some of my better known colleagues had political allegiances that supports the proposition.

240695 ▶▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #382 of 1790 🔗

You are welcome.

In the following – David Rockefeller in 1973 expressed his admiration for Maoist China.

https://www.nytimes.com/1973/08/10/archives/from-a-china-traveler.html

240738 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #383 of 1790 🔗

Intellectual laziness is enough for me. These people seem to want to make a tonne of money at the expense of everyone elses freedom, liberty, health and well-being, while claiming they are in fact the flag bearers for such ideals. That lack of critical self awareness also feeds their ego and its reinforced by those in their network who suffer the same illness.

When it suits them they can easily label someone a communist for example or Nazi. It’s all just arbitrary. As long as they can make money, enhance faux reputation and have the right labels on their LinkedIn profile, they have succeeded at life.

241507 ▶▶▶ TT, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #384 of 1790 🔗

The main ‘expert’ (epidemiologist) who has been driving the hypochondria pandemic in Belgium is a known Marxist sympathiser, the new Minister of Health & Social Affairs who is zealously implementing ‘the Science’ diktats of the former started his career as a devoted Marxist, the one hospital that was alwyas featured when the panic of ‘overlowing ICUs’ needed to be stoked is a University Hospital of the Free University of Brussels, the most leftist/marxist-inspired educational institute in the country, the head of public television has repeatedly expressed his admiration for the Chinese model and has made several official ‘study trips’ to China (funded by taxpayer money of course, don’t ask me why a public tv station needs inspiration from visits to China…), and of course national tv has been instrumental in scaring the public witness. There is not a SINGLE source of Covid hysteria in my country without links to marxist/Chinese communist elements, as even the most cursory Google (or better, DuckDuckGo) search will demonstrate.

240592 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 22, #385 of 1790 🔗

C-19 fatigue?
https://twitter.com/FrancescoLari/status/1326443489127768065 “Milan (centre of the red zone). Nobody obeys lockdown restrictions. The government has lost the public consensus, police cannot and don’t want to enforce, now people is indifferent to hospitals full and any number of deaths”

240603 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to swedenborg, 7, #386 of 1790 🔗

This is because of lies and closing down debate. Sure, some just don’t like being on the dole and not having bars open, but generally people smell a rat.

If this was a local crisis I’d be worried. Compliance seems high and opposition unseen. However, globally, this cabal of globalists simply cannot succeed

240600 Cheshire Andy, replying to Cheshire Andy, 12, #387 of 1790 🔗

Please, before making statements about possible Anti-Vaxx scaremongering in relation to a SARS treatment and narcolepsy, check your facts. Vaccine induced Narcolepsy was observed in 2009 with an H1N1 (influenza) vaccine (Pandemrix manufactured by GSK). This is very well documented with over 1300 case in Europe. For example see, https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/07/why-pandemic-flu-shot-caused-narcolepsy and https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/history/narcolepsy-flu.html .

240625 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Cheshire Andy, 6, #388 of 1790 🔗

Indeed.

Narcolepsy is permanent damage to the brain that controls sleep – you cannot fix it.

Pandemrix caused narcolepsy

The UK Health Protection Agency (now Public Health England) undertook a major study of 4- to 18-year-olds and found that around one in every 55,000 jabs led to narcolepsy .

https://www.narcolepsy.org.uk/resources/pandemrix-narcolepsy

241002 ▶▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to Victoria, 3, #389 of 1790 🔗

That’s an unacceptable percentage that should collape the ‘greater good’ argument

240604 Country Mumkin, 5, #390 of 1790 🔗

Hello all

Just been made aware that India was forced down the digital surveillance route. Here’s article

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/mar/21/no-id-no-benefits-thousands-could-lose-lifeline-india-biometric-scheme-aadhaar-card

CM x

240624 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 42, #391 of 1790 🔗

Just listening to “Today” on R4 and there was a “Questions to the experts ” bit which was no doubt at least 50% falsified with brain dead questions like : “Will my doctor have the facilities to keep the vaccine safe?”
No, of course not, you “Thicko”, he will put it in the stationary cupboard!
But what brought all this madness into sharp relief was, when one of the “experts” was asked if she could say absolutely that there were no risks involved with taking the vaccine, she replied: “Well, life is a risk, you might get run over when you go out for a coffee”
FOR GOD’S SAKE, THAT’S WHAT US SCEPTICS HAVE BEEN SAYING FOR MONTHS, KEEP THINGS IN PERSPECTIVE AND PUT AN END TO THIS HYSTERICAL OVERREACTION.
End this lockdown now and get back to normal.

240627 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #392 of 1790 🔗

Unfortunately that kind of logical awareness seems beyond most of the “experts” and media.

240721 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Fingerache Philip., 15, #393 of 1790 🔗

We’re in fucking madhouse.

240802 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #394 of 1790 🔗

They live to support a pre determined narrative. Breaks in logic don’t seem to impact them.

240626 Rosie, replying to Rosie, 20, #395 of 1790 🔗

Greetings, fellow Sceptics.

I’m going to London Bridge station, today, main entrance, shortly before eleven.

Shall promote freedom of speech with anyone who wishes to join me.

Shall observe two minutes silence and shall remember our own dead as well, Arnie, Captain BH and many others please note. We’ll remember them.

240659 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Rosie, 7, #396 of 1790 🔗

Good luck!!!

240630 AfterAll, 2, #397 of 1790 🔗

The Emergency Use Authorisation for Eli Lilly’s monoclonal antibody therapy bamlanivimab may likewise have been deliberately delayed till after the election. The US government had contracted to spend $375m on it, on 28 October. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8931735/US-FDA-grants-emergency-approval-Eli-Lillys-coronavirus-antibody-drug.html

240633 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 4, #398 of 1790 🔗

https://twitter.com/BallouxFrancois/status/1326299045304950791 “How to get your priorities straight. Nadine Dorries (UK Minister for Mental Health, Suicide Prevention and Patient Safety )”
Nadine Dorries “Just to be clear, dog groomers can remain open if C-19 secure. They are not on the list of businesses to close. Dog grooming prevents matted (painful) coats and long nails. Remaining open is an ani@al health and welfare issue”

240639 ▶▶ Julian, replying to swedenborg, 4, #399 of 1790 🔗

She’s an utter twit, or worse, and Balloux seems to be getting increasingly sceptical. I had some correspondence with UCL, where he works, and encouraged them to listen to him more.

240665 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Julian, 2, #400 of 1790 🔗

She has long been known on Guido as ‘Mad Nad’!

240697 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Julian, #401 of 1790 🔗

I presume ‘twit’ is a spelling error

240660 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to swedenborg, 10, #402 of 1790 🔗

If dog groomers are allowed to remain open because its an animal health and welfare issue then why are gyms and swimming pools closed? It can be argued that its a human health and safety issue. Or are animals more important than people?

240668 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #403 of 1790 🔗

We are the animals now. Muzzled and allowed out for an hours walk every day.

240637 flyingjohn, replying to flyingjohn, 10, #404 of 1790 🔗

Take an unlicensed and insufficiently tested vaccine with 90% (claimed) success rate or my 99.596% immune system? I’ll take my chances with my immune system, thanks.

First, all politicians and all of SAGE must take it. If they don’t die, the vaccine is safe. If they do die, the country is safe.

240716 ▶▶ stewart, replying to flyingjohn, #405 of 1790 🔗

They won’t let you make that choice.

240640 Basics, replying to Basics, 8, #406 of 1790 🔗

Tweet from Simon Dolan – it was expected an outcome would have come by the middle of last week.

“Simon Dolan #KBF
@simondolan
·
57m
Been asked many times about the outcome from the case in the Court of Appeal. Am afraid there is no news – we are currently waiting on the three Judges to deliver their verdict

As soon as I hear anything, I’ll let you know”

240657 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to Basics, 5, #407 of 1790 🔗

Dare we hope that the delay is because the ruling is exercising the judges more than they expected to be exercised?

240661 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Now More Than Ever, 2, #408 of 1790 🔗

Nah, one of the tested positive…..

240817 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Now More Than Ever, 1, #409 of 1790 🔗

No, it just delays any attempt to point out how badly ‘our’ ‘justice’ system is being run!

240644 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 2, #410 of 1790 🔗

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/masking-science-sars-cov2.html
This 10 th Nov CDC statement is now the official policy how effective masks are in the community Incredible

240663 ▶▶ Liewe, replying to swedenborg, 2, #411 of 1790 🔗

I absolutely despair, how can one ever again believe a health organization? The lack of science understanding is unbelievable.

240714 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Liewe, 3, #412 of 1790 🔗

How can one ever believe anything official again?

241077 ▶▶▶ right2question, replying to Liewe, 3, #413 of 1790 🔗

and yet people continue to believe that the vaccination push is in some way totally separate from all the unscience and misinformation. despite the vaccine agenda being like a religion or ideology and despite the manufacturers history of repeated dishonesty/court cases. massive payouts etc, nope with vaccines they are suddenly afforded an image that’s totally disconnected from the truth.

240648 PastImperfect, 11, #414 of 1790 🔗

Rancourt
https://off-guardian.org/2020/11/10/the-great-viral-debate-dr-rancourts-closing-statement/?fbclid=IwAR0dIdnXDGNkWRFUzQirYgRO9d3dEtckjabzcqd56erHAInZfRYDpBiFteE

Quote:
In the context of this debate, “herd/community immunity” refers to the business-as-usual natural coping of individuals and society constantly challenged by respiratory disease viruses, as has been the case for thousands of years. In technical terms, the concept of “herd immunity” was introduced by vaccine manufacturers as a pretext for universal vaccination programs, rather than individual personal-choice “protection”. After all, if a vaccine is effective, then it should protect the vaccinated individual. The idea is that sufficiently large vaccination coverage prevents rapid spread through a population, and reduces the likelihood that late pockets of vulnerable (not immune) individuals will be infected by the pathogen in question. Thus defined, “herd immunity” is a device to sell universal vaccination.
In my view, we have not entered a new area in which human health on the planet suddenly, after 4 billion years of animal co-evolution with viruses, depends on universal distribution of viral respiratory disease vaccines; nor have we entered a new scientific era in which the gargantuan vaccine industry has discovered how to make effective, beneficial, and safe viral respiratory disease vaccines. The industry is a wasteful cash cow, which causes much harm and deters away from real health and quality of life initiatives.
If you want to help vulnerable and oppressed populations and social classes, then stop structurally and directly attacking vulnerable and oppressed populations and social classes.

240649 Leemc23, 12, #415 of 1790 🔗

Just an observation. Our flu pandemic response model seems to be absolutely brilliant. There we are following the flu plans all year and almost mid point in November and no flu. It’s amazing.

If we could figure out something for a cronovirus that’s as effective we could implement that next year in flu season and we can then also eradicate Coronaviruses. It’s a win win.

240650 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 45, #416 of 1790 🔗

Had an unexpected call yesterday evening.

One of the lawyers who is quite deeply involved in putting the cases against the Government together called me and apologised for not picking up this info earlier but he has now and wants to start putting it out on Twitter, social media etc so I said go for it.

What they missed?

This FOI answer from months go:

I received a FOI request answer from the Department of Health and Social Care Reference FOI-1240596 and it stated that a positive PCR test means nothing medically.

The actual quote: “SARS-CoV-2 RNA means the RNA is present in that sample at that point in time. It does not mean that the patient has the novel coronavirus (COVID-19).”

Look out for it with a bit of luck.

240653 ▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #417 of 1790 🔗

I saw a few people post that on Twitter yesterday, never seen it before but it was dated from back in August so not sure why it’s seemingly only just come to light.

240672 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Anothersceptic2, 12, #418 of 1790 🔗

Maybe they have started using it already. Good.

18 August I got the FOI answer and been sending it out to everyone – the PM, MPs, Ministers, other FOIs, councils,devolved governments, first ministers, health ministers Mayors, parliamentary committees, lawyers etc since then.

This is what my follow-up FOIs are based on – please supply the science behind the decision to use PCR tests as a positive medical test and not one single answer has come back except “we have nothing”.

The FOI answer also linked to a document that in conclusion stated that the PCR tests being used are unreliable, had high false positive rates, could not be verified against an actual confirmed case of covid-19 and had not been verified in a medical or hospital setting.

https://www.healthtechnology.wales/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/EAR025-COVID19-diagnostics-report-v2.6.pdf

The Executive Summary contains classics like (my questions at the end):

  • We carried out quality assessment of the studies and judged the majority to be at risk of bias in one or more aspect of their design or conduct, which means their results may not be reliable.”

Some studies did not include methods of confirmatory/differential diagnosis to validate the test results obtained (e.g. the proportion of likely false positive and negative results). A pooled analysis estimated the sensitivity of an initial RT-PCR test result to be 89%, using results of repeated RT-PCR as the reference standard. So does this mean that there is an estimated 11% false result?

There are important gaps in the available evidence on the effectiveness of tests for the presence of SARS-CoV-2. Studies of virus testing in asymptomatic patients, or in specific populations such as healthcare workers are limited in number and there is no evidence on the validated diagnostic performance of the tests beyond their use in the hospital setting. So pretty useless then?

a true assessment of the accuracy of RT-PCR test results is very challenging, and using these RT-PCR for validation mean the same issues apply to the results of antibody tests studied in this way. so the test has lots of problems with accuracy and the antibody test cannot be used for doublechecking the results due to these inaccuracies?

240995 ▶▶▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #419 of 1790 🔗

Excellent!

240656 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Awkward Git, 10, #420 of 1790 🔗

Brilliant news. Well done AG. Keep networking with them now, return their call, set up a zome meeting etc to explain what you are doing and discuss secure storage

241153 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #421 of 1790 🔗

Save our rights UK have shared a FOI response from Dept of Health on FB which admits PCR tests are not a diagnostic tool, especially to determine if someone is ill.

240670 Basics, 10, #422 of 1790 🔗

Police Tell Protestors “Your Dead” In Liverpool Down pointing backhand index

https://twitter.com/TheArchitect009/status/1326189486276022273?s=20

If you look carefully you can see full recognition by the ‘WPC/Thug’ when she taps main thug on the arm as it to say shut up don’t tell them that.

Imagine the team’s mindset if one policeman feels it is appropriate to shout direct targeted threats to member of the public.

240671 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 14, #423 of 1790 🔗

More than 50 Tories form the Covid recovery group to question the government’s slavish kowtowing to a “selective” band of “experts and advisers”
Keep the faith, Great Oaks from little acorns grow.

240675 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Fingerache Philip., 15, #424 of 1790 🔗

Apparently another 45 in a separate WhatsApp group going to join them. Only needs around 80 letters to the 1922 Committee to trigger a no confidence vote in Doris. I still think he will be gone by Christmas – he doesn’t do fights, he runs away!

240711 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #425 of 1790 🔗

Maybe Jan 2nd when no deal is completely cemented and it’s clear he isn’t going to be able to con the EU into some sort of deal.

240829 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to stewart, 5, #426 of 1790 🔗

Once he’s gotten his miserable excuse for Brexit out the way he will be completely disposable.

240755 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #427 of 1790 🔗

I admire your confidence, TT.
Hope you’re right.

240797 ▶▶▶ alw, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #428 of 1790 🔗

Heard the missus is thinking of going!

240965 ▶▶▶▶ steph, replying to alw, 1, #429 of 1790 🔗

But he’s her puppet. That’s why we’ve got all the climate change baloney which we cannot afford. She couldn’t influence the agenda as much if she left him.

241200 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to steph, #430 of 1790 🔗

Well she won’t be able to if they force him out.

Wancock should also go.

240674 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, #431 of 1790 🔗

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wpneGEZCWBs

John Lewis Christmas Advert 2020 ALTERNATIVE – Don’t Let Me Go (WARNING EMOTIONAL)

240690 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Sarigan, 1, #432 of 1790 🔗

Feck John Lewis

He’s on the list under ‘c’

240722 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Cecil B, #433 of 1790 🔗

It isn’t JL. It is an independent video highlighting the loneliness and separation that this year will compound.

240678 Freecumbria, replying to Freecumbria, 10, #434 of 1790 🔗

I’ve been monitoring the running weekly (by date of death) running average of covid+ hospital deaths data for all regions including London from the NHS daily published death data. I miss off the last 5 days as there are deaths that have occurred but not been reported but any 7 day period ending before that should be pretty much complete.

I use the hospital data as it is relatively ‘clean’ data and testing in hospitals has gone on throughout so gives a not unreasonable comparison between now and April.

The current covid+ weekly death figure for London is about 6.9% of the London weekly maximum in April (achieved for week to 2nd November) and it increased very slowly up to that figure of 6.9% and is now levelling off. So about 1/7th as bad as the first wave.

And bear in mind those covid-19 seasonal deaths now are happening at a time that there are less non covid-19+ respiratory deaths than normal. And many of the covid+ labelled deaths are deaths labelled with covid-19 not deaths from covid-19.

The regional graphs also show the original decay of deaths for London off the April peak was sharper than other English areas (and that’s after allowing for the fact that the London first wave peak happened earlier). And the decay was incredibly smooth, even when restrictions were lifted there is no sign of them at all in the curve.

So it looks me that London has significant community immunity. And although the herd immunity threshold isn’t a single threshold that is passed, but we cycle in and out of herd immunity for seasonal reasons, it significantly limits the extent of the current seasonal ripple. What other explanation can there be for what is happening now in London?

For regions such as the North West the seasonal increase is significantly higher percentage than 6.9% of the first wave because presumably the North West was less hit in the first wave, but once that seasonal increase is over (and Zoe and ONS survey data suggests the ripple is over in the North West) presumably those regions will be in the same place as London re community immunity.

So what is the point of a say June vaccine given everything is pointing to us then having an endemic virus with a relatively low case fatality rate?

240701 ▶▶ Freecumbria, replying to Freecumbria, 2, #435 of 1790 🔗

And here’s a link to my chart

https://ibb.co/QYR1jCW

240723 ▶▶ Simon, replying to Freecumbria, 2, #436 of 1790 🔗

Haven’t they combined flu and other respiratory related deaths with Covid since the middle of October?

240742 ▶▶▶ Freecumbria, replying to Simon, #437 of 1790 🔗

That’s why I mentioned the lower recorded non-covid-19 respiratory deaths above. The chart is of ‘deaths of patients who have died in hospitals in England and had either tested positive for COVID-19 or where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate’.

Not sure how it breaks down regionally. Perhaps someone has some data showing if respiratory deaths in London overall are below normal seasonal levels?

240729 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Freecumbria, 5, #438 of 1790 🔗

So what is the point of a say June vaccine given everything is pointing to us then having an endemic virus with a relatively low case fatality rate?”

No medical point. It’s political – to cover the government’s blushes, and allow them to sell getting back to normal to the public, who otherwise may simply not believe them. Or for more sinister reasons – take your pick.

I suppose some people believe sincerely in the medical aims, but even given their huge capacity for self delusion I don’t think the people at the top do.

240679 mattghg, replying to mattghg, 1, #439 of 1790 🔗

It’s a shame the CRG have spoiled their platform by buying into the trace-‘n-trace nonsense. Oh well, hopefully they can do some good anyway.

240693 ▶▶ Julian, replying to mattghg, 3, #440 of 1790 🔗

Yes. The trouble is that even people who are tired of lockdowns feel like there is something “out there” about which something must be done, and absent a vaccine or a treatment, T&T is the usual answer. Doing nothing much is too far out there for most. That’s the final hurdle we need to get people over – and it may never happen.

240706 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 3, #441 of 1790 🔗

Doing nothing much is too far out there for most.”

It’s a part of the ‘safety’ disease – the thought that there’s always a quick and natty solution to a problem. Actually, in this case, there is – which is precisely that : wind down the hysteria, keep calm and carry on.

240724 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, 4, #442 of 1790 🔗

The safety disease has been creeping up on us for years and laid the groundwork for the current madness. It would take a miracle, but a good thing to come out of this horror would be a collective realisation that safety has its limits.

241125 ▶▶▶▶▶ right2question, replying to Julian, #443 of 1790 🔗

and it’s so interesting as it’s coming at a time when there is so much research and findings re the bome and the virome .. which is a life affirming approach rather than the war on germs/viruses/etc

240726 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 3, #444 of 1790 🔗

It’s interesting to speculate whether the opinion manipulation forces that the government deployed to manufacture fear could have been equally effective if they had been turned in the other direction – to direct people to “keep calm and carry on”, not to panic, etc. That was the wartime government approach to the 1918 flu.

On the one hand, it’s easy to believe it could have, based on the catastrophically effective job it did in this case. When massive propaganda and manipulation on that scale works it can be breath-taking, in a horribly awesome sense.

On the other hand, it can also fail spectacularly, when it tries to push against too strong a tide.

I wonder if the panic tide we saw in Feb/March operating amongst exactly the elites (media, science, political) needed to operate the propaganda machinery, would have been just too strong to resist, with so many of those involved simply refusing to work effectively. That’s certainly the feeling the government had, as witnessed by their rapid U-turn away from the Swedish-style and into the authoritarian Chicom style response.

240848 ▶▶▶▶▶ Athanasius, replying to Mark, 2, #445 of 1790 🔗

Interesting question. Ultimately, panic is more contagious than calm.

241616 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ caravaggio57, replying to Athanasius, #446 of 1790 🔗

Keep calm and ………….PANIC!!!!!!!

240680 Mabel Cow, replying to Mabel Cow, 7, #447 of 1790 🔗

Perhaps somebody should create a petition like this:

“To compel 90% of the MPs who voted Aye in division 902 to receive the Pfizer vaccine before the vaccine is released to the general public.”

240683 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Mabel Cow, 5, #448 of 1790 🔗

I think they should take 10 times the standard dose, just to prove how safe it is.

Piers Morgan can have 100x…

240702 ▶▶ vargas99, replying to Mabel Cow, 4, #449 of 1790 🔗

They should be made to sign up to ALL vaccine trials, thereby ensuring the general public are not put at risk and also to prove their commitment to public service

240728 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Mabel Cow, 6, #450 of 1790 🔗

…Neutral observers to confirm that the correct vaccine was indeed ‘injected’ into the MPs body (not a photo stunt like Sadiq Khan where the rubber protection was still on at the end of the syringe for the photo op)

241133 ▶▶ right2question, replying to Mabel Cow, #451 of 1790 🔗

no

240684 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 7, #452 of 1790 🔗

From the BBC

‘Jacqui Rammage, executive dean for the science faculty at Durham University, which has been piloting a mass testing programme, welcomed the plan.

“I think mass testing is absolutely essential because… so many people in the age group that our students are in are asymptotic carriers of the virus,” she told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme.

Ellen Brooks Pollock, an infectious diseases modeller at the University of Bristol, said the government’s new plan was “an improvement” but she warned about the restrictions of the type of rapid testing to be used on students.

She told Today that the self-administered “lateral flow” tests were not as accurate as PCR testing – the type of tests that has been used at the NHS Covid tests.

“Although a positive test is a good indicator of infection, a negative test does not guarantee that you’re not infected,” she said.

Where do they get these feckin spanners

240689 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Cecil B, 6, #453 of 1790 🔗

It’s so infuriating. Whenever I read statements like this that go unchallenged, you feel like finding them and shaking them and getting them to explain in their own words exactly how “testing” saves any lives or solves any problems.

240699 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Cecil B, 4, #454 of 1790 🔗

I think you have an excellent example of interest distorting science in those statements. Pure wishing on a star rather than science.

‘Asymptomatic carriers of the virus’. And what is that mythical beast in scientific-medical terms – as defined by rigorous analysis?

240708 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to RickH, 3, #455 of 1790 🔗

I think we should referring to science in such reverential tones. As if science was good and pure and the problem is when it isn’t done properly or it’s distorted.

Science is not a force for good. It’s just a method.

240786 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to RickH, 2, #456 of 1790 🔗

It’s absolute nonsense isn’t it. Asymptomatics as in PCR + but no symptoms? So tell me the CTs used, so tell me the FPR, so tell me the review into process contamination.

Can someone point me towards a study which explains how an asymptomatic individual is spreading a viral disease?

240903 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 4, #457 of 1790 🔗

Can someone point me towards a study which explains how an asymptomatic individual is spreading a viral disease?

No. There is no such a thing. However used with glee by the establishment to scare people and keep us locked up

240707 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Cecil B, 2, #458 of 1790 🔗

If they were arms dealers arguing for a invasion of a foreign country, for instance, you’d expect BBC types to at least raise the question of self-interest bias.

240715 ▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to Cecil B, 3, #459 of 1790 🔗

I didn’t realise it was possible to get a test that was even less reliable (ie. 0%) than the PCR test!

240744 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cecil B, 1, #460 of 1790 🔗

Are these names real? Jacqui Rammage and Ellen Brooks Pollock?
Jacqui “Vaccine” Rammage Ellen Brooks Bollocks
More like.

240751 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Cecil B, 1, #461 of 1790 🔗

Where was the mass testing when 64000 died in Jan 2018?

Oh right. That’s DIFURENt

241822 ▶▶ Dorian_Hawkmoon, replying to Cecil B, #462 of 1790 🔗

I love the ‘asymptotic’ typo. It’s actually true! Approaching but never reaching zero on a chart.

240687 Julian, replying to Julian, 5, #463 of 1790 🔗

Is there a doctor in the house? It comes to something when you trust strangers on the internet more than your own GP, but I have a question for the sceptic doctors who visit these comments.

With regard to the Pfizer vaccine, what would you advise a patient who has had acute episodes of an autoimmune disorder, but is now in (long-term) remission. My view would be not to go poking around into stimulating the immune system to go mad again, and take the risk of catching the virus.

Asking for a friend…

240705 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 9, #464 of 1790 🔗

Not a doctor myself, but curious – why would it be advisable for anyone to take the vaccine now, when all the evidence seems to support the idea that it has passed through the population and there is sufficient general immunity to prevent epidemic spread with serious consequences, so any risk of catching it, let alone suffering serious consequences, must be minimal, certainly with reasonable general precautions?

Surely the general unknown risks of an untested new vaccine alone, without considering particular personal susceptibilities such as autoimmune issues, would outweigh any risks from this latest coronavirus?

Certainly that’s my assessment atm.

240720 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 4, #465 of 1790 🔗

Oh yes I completely agree. I don’t see why anyone would take it and would prefer takeup to be very low as I cannot believe that many who take it have been properly informed of the risks. But on a sliding scale, my gut tells me someone with a history of autoimmune issues has more reason than most to steer clear.

240949 ▶▶▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to Julian, 3, #466 of 1790 🔗

Correct. I’ve seen entire families suffer vaccine injury to different degrees sometimes leading to autoimmune disease. Baffled as to why this is not taken into account, when for most other drugs predispositions are a consideration.

240795 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Mark, 1, #467 of 1790 🔗

Exactly where I am, Mark.

241047 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Will, 1, #468 of 1790 🔗

Well it does seem to be where an honest analysis of the available data would lead anyone who is reasonably informed, intelligent and experienced.

But I suppose we would say that, wouldn’t we 🙂

240752 ▶▶ JME, replying to Julian, 18, #469 of 1790 🔗

Hi Julian,
I am still a practising GP and sceptic. I am not an expert on vaccines (& am definitely not an anti- vaxxer) but I have major problems with this current vaccine: it seems to have been rushed through for political reasons. As far as I can tell it has only been tested on low risk subjects & its success is only measured as a reduction in symptoms. We have no long-term follow-up data.
To me it does not remotely seem that the benefits of having the vaccine outweigh the potential risks: I would not want to have it myself & would absolutely want to give patients all the information to allow them to make a fully informed decision (this would include articles I have saved from this website from eg Mike Yeadon & Malcolm Kendrick)- I do think patients need to know that, in a way, they would be taking part in a trial of the vaccine with unknown long-term effects.
I would agree with your view.

240793 ▶▶▶ alw, replying to JME, 8, #470 of 1790 🔗

You are saying exactly what my medic friends are saying.

240794 ▶▶ Will, replying to Julian, 6, #471 of 1790 🔗

We will see, but I cannot see anyone with an autoimmune history being permitted to take this vaccine.

240818 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Will, 2, #472 of 1790 🔗

Hmm. Indeed we will see. You’re kind of assuming that those administering the vaccine will have access to and understand every subject’s medical history. Given the widening of who is able to deliver vaccines, and the govt’s love of showboating like using the Army and 3rd party contractors to do things on a “mass” scale, I am not sure that is going to be the case.

240958 ▶▶▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to Julian, 3, #473 of 1790 🔗

I know someone with autoimmune in her family, whose brother contracted encephalitis from a vaccine, receive an exemption from vaccinations. It needs support of a doctor (in this case a private family doctor) who knows the medical history.

241117 ▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Julian, 1, #474 of 1790 🔗

It won’t be. I’ve had the flu vaccine a couple of times, never been asked about family history of auto immune conditions. Nor ever offered the information sheet. I asked for it this year and was given one, told nobody ever asks, and there’s only one sheet for a box of 30 doses.
Meanwhile, GP on last night’s news saying the Pfizer vaccine comes in big phials which once opened have to be used up within 48 hours, so they must have a steady throughput of 150 (?) cases per day. Absolutely no chance of any knowledge or discussion of patient or family history. Not that GPs show any interest in the latter anyway.

241286 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Julian, 1, #475 of 1790 🔗

… what would you advise a patient who has had acute episodes of an autoimmune disorder

Also not a doctor, but GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM ME WITH THAT NEEDLE ! springs to mind.

240691 Stuart, 11, #476 of 1790 🔗

Had Charles Mackay been able to observe 21st century Britain – scurrying, filthy-masked individuals bouncing off each other’s two-metre force field, cravenly following the now ubiquitous directional signs, fearfully scanning the command notices and obsequiously following the barked orders of shop termagants – he, Mackay, would have concluded that the proletariat, having been prodded to an advanced state of bovine herd madness, would never come to their senses one by one, or at all.

240700 Basics, replying to Basics, 8, #477 of 1790 🔗

Peer reviewed Study:

“Informed consent disclosure to vaccine trial subjects of risk of COVID‐19 vaccines worsening clinical disease”

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/ijcp.13795?casa_token=RsHP_aDNpmgAAAAA%3AAyN3EeqWoPg9Lhq2wBq1trVqIfzh_9EqZ5429q0LxnjtR9CVifLC3nlGBnGK1lKQ7OVfTzHQWEhJxtk

“Abstract
Aims of the study
Patient comprehension is a critical part of meeting medical ethics standards of informed consent in study designs. The aim of the study was to determine if sufficient literature exists to require clinicians to disclose the specific risk that COVID‐19 vaccines could worsen disease upon exposure to challenge or circulating virus.”

“Results of the study
COVID‐19 vaccines designed to elicit neutralizing antibodies may sensitize vaccine recipients to more severe disease than if they were not vaccinated. Vaccines for SARS, MERS and RSV have never been approved, and the data generated in the development and testing of these vaccines suggest a serious mechanistic concern: that vaccines designed empirically using the traditional approach (consisting of the unmodified or minimally modified coronavirus viral spike to elicit neutralizing antibodies), be they composed of protein, viral vector, DNA or RNA and irrespective of delivery method, may worsen COVID‐19 disease via antibody‐dependent enhancement (ADE). This risk is sufficiently obscured in clinical trial protocols and consent forms for ongoing COVID‐19 vaccine trials tha adequate patient comprehension of this risk is unlikely to occur, obviating truly informed consent by subjects in these trials.

“Conclusions drawn from the study and clinical implications
The specific and significant COVID‐19 risk of ADE should have been and should be prominently and independently disclosed to research subjects currently in vaccine trials, as well as those being recruited for the trials and future patients after vaccine approval, in order to meet the medical ethics standard of patient comprehension for informed consent.”

240948 ▶▶ annie, replying to Basics, 4, #478 of 1790 🔗

The Royal Society has decreed that medical ethics are a criminal conspiracy. Better go and.hide.

240710 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 13, #479 of 1790 🔗

Bearing in mind I am now public enemy number one in these parts, I have put another blackboard outside the shop with that Mark Twain quote chalked up. Should give the snitches something else to photograph. No doubt I will be spoken to again for my lack of adherence to the hysteria.

More lunacy outside my deserted shop: A couple of nursery assistants with their charges – who remind me of the Peanuts characters – congregating on the bandstand all wearing high-viz tabards though, mercifully, not muzzles. They have just taped off the bandstand. Not sure if this is to keep the Peanuts kiddies in, or agents of plague out.

240719 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to kh1485, 8, #480 of 1790 🔗

Oh, and just received a letter from the Jehovah’s Witness bods proclaiming “These are thrilling times in which we live … and not because of the pandemic” Blimey, they’re getting desperate if they think they can convert me to the cause.

240741 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to kh1485, 3, #481 of 1790 🔗

Sanity brings it’s burdens

240743 ▶▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 2, #482 of 1790 🔗

Ignorance is bliss

240943 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, #483 of 1790 🔗

”Tisn’t. Ignorance lays you open to every evil the universe has to offer.

240869 ▶▶▶ davews, replying to kh1485, 2, #484 of 1790 🔗

I assume JW are not allowed to do house to house calls at the moment. A couple of them used to be regularly outside our local Tesco on a Saturday morning, actually got to know them pretty well but they never pushed their pseudo religion at me as they knew I went to the Methodist church opposite theirs. Not seen them for a long time now. presumably now banned.

240916 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to kh1485, 4, #485 of 1790 🔗

Well if nothing else the JWs can refuse the vaccine on religious grounds. A temporary convert maybe?

240941 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #486 of 1790 🔗

Great idea …

241272 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to kh1485, #487 of 1790 🔗

Sorry kh, missed your post about the BID letter yesterday.

If they got the name wrong, what about ‘Return to Sender – Address Unknown’ ? That’s assuming it wan’t a signed-for letter which your dog ate before you had a chance to read it .

240712 Josephine K, #488 of 1790 🔗

Here’s a couple more song titles …Hell to the liars by London Grammar and This kid’s not all right by Awolnation….

240718 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 4, #489 of 1790 🔗

Guidance everyone should ignore. As they should ignore all guidance by this government, which is based on dangerous & deceitful misrepresentations of facts and data (even without its regulations) is entrenching social breakdown, economic catastrophe and a public health crisis.

https://twitter.com/Francis_Hoar/status/1326182159867129857

240768 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Victoria, 1, #490 of 1790 🔗

My University angered me yet again Monday afternoon, announcing mass testing was being planned for December. Can’t fucking help themselves collaborating.

240725 calchas, replying to calchas, 24, #491 of 1790 🔗

This whole covid narrative is like a tree. It is easy to get side-tracked discussing vaccinations and ‘track and trace’ and whether lockdowns ork etc.

The truth is that these issues are merely in the upper branches of the tree. It only makes sense to discuss these issues if you accept the flawed premises. Indeed, discussion of these issues helps to cement the premises, and thus the narrative itself, in place.

The tree continues growing.

The root of this tree to which the axe must be vigorously applied is:

  1. covid is not especially dangerous.
  2. The death statistics are fabricated – ‘with’ vs ‘of’
  3. The PCR is meaningless as an indicator of disease.

I am an optimist. I think that many people perhaps the majority – know all this, at least intuitively. Otherwise, they wouldn’t have packed the caes and pubs prior to lockdown two.

The task is to make this knowledge conscious and to give it political expression, and thus overturn the fraud and return to normal life.

240754 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to calchas, 1, #492 of 1790 🔗

Yes, great post. We should fix all our attention on the ‘root of the tree’ and get the message out

240787 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Victoria, #493 of 1790 🔗

And, whilst I respect your anti vaccination views Victoria, we mustn’t let that distract us, as they hope it will, from the principle objective which is the ending of lockdown, SD, masks etc.

240894 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Will, 5, #494 of 1790 🔗

Thanks Will. Interesting that you label me anti vaccination just because I question the narrative ……

Always do your research before deciding to take a vaccine or prescribed drug, then make an informed decision whether to take it or not

240980 ▶▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Victoria, #495 of 1790 🔗

Please don’t be offended by a turn of phrase. Trust me, I know just how dangerous Vaccines can be but, on balance, I am in favour. That is not to say that I am intolerant of those who are opposed to vaccination because I think it is a far from black and white argument.

240765 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to calchas, 5, #496 of 1790 🔗

Yes, PCR test is the thing that can topple the tree along with it is not dangerous as is why it was downgraded in March.

Our landlord and a gas engineer called to see us last night. Landlord is over 60 and a lovely man and due to us being flooded in August and some troubles with our boiler they both have been round a couple of times. Never any mask nonesense no SD crap or even mention of it, just adult face to face conversations, gas engineer is full sceptic and has been working throughout.

Landlord fed up, doesn’t know anyone who has had it knows it’s crap, doesn’t watch the news, doesn’t want the big V. We both told him about the false +’ves, how it is well down the list of infectious diseases, how mortality rate is below average, 60k cases in 2018, due to benign flu year in 2019 low hanging fruit taken at start of year, how it has wiped out flu 🤔 , data flawed etc.

Lots of raised eyebrows from him and a knowing smile at the end of it.

240813 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to calchas, 9, #497 of 1790 🔗

I still cleave to these four beliefs:

  1. COVID-19 is no worse than flu.
  2. The virus is not the disease. A positive test result does not mean you are sick.
  3. Masks don’t stop viruses, but can harm you.
  4. Lockdown has caused more lost years of life than COVID-19.
240873 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Mabel Cow, 2, #498 of 1790 🔗

I’d add end the lockdown,
End to social distancing,
Royal Commission to find the guilty
Apt punishment for all found guilty in criminal court.

240731 JHuntz, replying to JHuntz, 7, #499 of 1790 🔗

So we have the scientific establishment supporting CCP suppression of speech and we have Mark Drakeford Wales FM making the following statements about Vietnam “ I have a feeling that there is a very different reaction in Wales to the non-sale of non-essential goods than there would have been in Vietnam. Because Vietnam is a society in which the government sets the rules and people stick by them. “

It seems like we need to clean out the commies all over again. How many times does this need to happen in our history?

240737 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to JHuntz, 1, #500 of 1790 🔗

No one takes any notice of the rapists dad

240937 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, #501 of 1790 🔗

No human being, that is. Zombies think (if that’s the word) he’s wonderful. Especially rabid anglophobe zombies. Talk about getting Wales a bad name!

240826 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to JHuntz, 3, #502 of 1790 🔗

To paraphrase Voltaire: The British have a fine set of politicians. Every now and again they need to shoot a few to encourage the others.

240747 nickbowes, replying to nickbowes, 1, #503 of 1790 🔗

For those who want to see all those anti Boris comments, there is no paywall at The Telegraph today !

240749 ▶▶ Mark, replying to nickbowes, #504 of 1790 🔗

Just a “loss leader”, or are they thinking about a change of policy?

240777 ▶▶▶ nickbowes, replying to Mark, #505 of 1790 🔗

tbh It is dire

240789 ▶▶ alw, replying to nickbowes, 6, #506 of 1790 🔗

They are heavily promoting the “wonder vaccine” today….therefore no paywall at the behest of the paymaster….Government.

240748 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 2, #507 of 1790 🔗

No wonder John Lewis is having financial troubles.

If you choose the free delivery option (spending over £50) then delivery will take up to 8 days .

Are they taking the Mickey in this day and age where we expect immediate delivery? Even small businesses deliver products for free in maximum 3 days

240766 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Victoria, 2, #508 of 1790 🔗

8 days!! In a time where I can order some car parts and have them show up on my driveway a couple of hours later that’s terrible!

240771 ▶▶ alw, replying to Victoria, 5, #509 of 1790 🔗

They went woke and are now suffering the consequences.

240773 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to alw, 7, #510 of 1790 🔗

Go woke, Go broke.

240800 ▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to DRW, 2, #511 of 1790 🔗

Going Woke means accepting the whole agenda and in return for a share of the £££ taken from society at large

240883 ▶▶ davews, replying to Victoria, 1, #512 of 1790 🔗

Which is why I have never embraced online food shopping. Twice weekly visits to my Tesco, each one £20-£25. I could never get through enough food to justify the free delivery and have to wait days to get it when Tesco is a five minute walk away.

240932 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to davews, 1, #513 of 1790 🔗

But it means running the horrible zombie gauntlet.
I happily pay £1.50 for click and collect. No trailing round shelves, no queues of shuffling, nappied sheeples, a nice chat with the cheerful, nappyless Tesco C&C man, and a chance to try some new places for walking the dog.

240750 Steve Jones, replying to Steve Jones, 1, #514 of 1790 🔗

If a person is a lockdowbn sceptic as well as a vaccine sceptic, does it mean they want to LET IT RIP ?

240756 ▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to Steve Jones, 5, #515 of 1790 🔗

Sadly some of those in Sage will be working full time on the wording of anything the government says purposefully to psychologically scare people. I spoke to my neighbour yesterday and told him about all of this, the lies about the testing, the lies about how deaths are recorded etc. and he knew none of it. Hopefully he’ll now go and look into what I was saying and then tell others.

241641 ▶▶▶ endthisinsanitynow, replying to Anothersceptic2, #516 of 1790 🔗

Sounds familiar… I too spoke with my neighbour yesterday, the propaganda, Gov lies, false positives… he knew none of it either, but his reaction was not positive. He just scowled at me and disagreed with everything that I’d brought to his attention. How much evidence do these people need? The brainwashing has done such an effective job that no amount of facts and figures will get in the way of these hypnotised sheep. I gave him a flyer setting out some of this info, he said he wouldn’t even read it.

240761 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Steve Jones, 3, #517 of 1790 🔗

Not necessarily, of course. but equally, there actually is a good case for letting it rip. It’s just not the people accused of it (moderate sceptics) who believe in it – then it’s just a lying straw man used by government and their scientist and media apologists and enablers.

I do (want to let it rip), but most opponents of lockdown probably don’t.

240810 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mark, #518 of 1790 🔗

Only need to look at Haiti or Brazil.

240767 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Steve Jones, 7, #519 of 1790 🔗

I’m going to own up. I want to let it rip.

241913 ▶▶▶ Borisbullshit, replying to stewart, #520 of 1790 🔗

me too

240783 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Steve Jones, 4, #521 of 1790 🔗

Let what rip?

It’s over.

240809 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to calchas, #522 of 1790 🔗

Exactly.

240811 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Steve Jones, #523 of 1790 🔗

Define “let it rip”

240856 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Julian, 1, #524 of 1790 🔗

Doing nothing and getting back to normal.No restrictions or special measures

240865 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #525 of 1790 🔗

Indeed, though “let it rip” is a somewhat loaded term. “Follow normal pandemic response measures” would be more accurate.

240763 Freecumbria, 1, #526 of 1790 🔗

Zoe app data updated for today. Downward trend continues

https://covid.joinzoe.com/data#levels-over-time

240776 NickR, replying to NickR, 8, #527 of 1790 🔗

In the same way that I find the use of the term ‘cases’ deeply troubling the term 2nd wave is both misleading & designed to be misleading. Avoid it.
Take a group swimming in the sea, they are all equally liable to get washed over by the 2nd wave, and the 3rd wave as they were the 1st wave. Not with coronavirus, get hit by the 1st wave & you’re out of the game, the wave is now just mopping up the people paddling up by the beach.

240799 ▶▶ RickH, replying to NickR, 6, #528 of 1790 🔗

Strongly agree, NickR.

Someone once said ‘Concede the language and you concede the argument.’

Firstly, there is no general propensity for viral outbreaks to have a second wave (the CEBM has examined the issue in depth). The whole notion was pursued as a propaganda tool.

Secondly, what we are now seeing isn’t at all a ‘wave’. It is totally unlike the April mortality spike, and indistinguishable from the normal, expected slow rise in infections at this time of year.

… and you’re right about the associated loose usage of ‘cases’ which similarly – if unwittingly – endorses the establishment narrative about vastly exaggerated numbers of infections.

241046 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to RickH, 2, #529 of 1790 🔗

I agree Rick. The only exception is that we don’t usually suppress outbreaks this aggressively, and the fact that MSM have been on about “second waves” since the “first” makes me suspect that the can-kicking effect was known all along. We’re getting a secondary ripple finishing off where the “first” was delayed because of natural seasonal rises. If we really were getting a second wave we’d be seeing uniform rises across the country.

And it’s no coincidence that the countries with the longest and hardest LDs are getting the worst second ripples. The worst thing is that they can keep spinning this every year with “nth wave fears” despite just being another cold.

240827 ▶▶ Motke, replying to NickR, 1, #530 of 1790 🔗

I broadly agree and have watched Mike Yeadon saying the pandemic ended back in June, and others referring to the Gompertz curve etc, but deaths do appear be rising and with over 500 daily deaths recorded yesterday, I can also see why some people would consider this a second wave. I have generally been sceptical throughout and do believe that lockdown causes far more harm than good, but the daily death figures do concern me and they are making me question my scepticism.

240851 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Motke, 5, #531 of 1790 🔗

my interpretation is that the first wave ‘got’ 2/3. the second ‘wave’ is going through the remaining 1/3. close to herd immunity and peak passed. hospitalisations levelling and deaths will peak soon

things is we can all argue about data till we go blue. nothing is worth closing society for. its not worth stripping us of our rights for either. fair enough to have some handwashing campaign or to space restaurant tables a bit further apart. that’s all proportionate. this govt response isn’t. even if this was the black death I’d argue the same. rather die on my feet than live on my knees

241921 ▶▶▶▶ Borisbullshit, replying to steve_w, #532 of 1790 🔗

Spot on …this is the real point. Its not about the data its about the principle….should healthy people’s lives be put on hold indefinitely to possibly extend the lives of those sat in god’s waiting room.

240853 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Motke, #533 of 1790 🔗

Deaths with a +PCR test result within 28 days.

240913 ▶▶▶▶ Motke, replying to stefarm, -1, #534 of 1790 🔗

Even if this recording measure is flawed though, the number keeps rising?

240859 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Motke, 9, #535 of 1790 🔗

the daily death figures do concern me and they are making me question my scepticism.

Not sure why. People die all the time. The average death rate from respiratory illnesses (Covid is a respiratory illness) this time of year is the same or less than the previous year. There is NO pandemic.

The government has shown time and time again that they are manipulating the data to suit their purposes. NEVER forget that.

Switch off the BBC and stop reading the mainstream papers, they poison your mind

240910 ▶▶▶▶ Motke, replying to Victoria, #536 of 1790 🔗

Thank you for your reply. I agree with your point about manipulating data and Carl Hennegan has evidenced this quite clearly. What is the average death rate from respiratory illnesses for this time of year?

241143 ▶▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Motke, #537 of 1790 🔗

Listen to the video.
https://pandata.org/crucial-viral-update-panda-revelations-for-the-uk-and-more/

Also click on live data and select country

241714 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Motke, replying to Victoria, #538 of 1790 🔗

Thank you

240862 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Motke, 9, #539 of 1790 🔗

Yes but every single person admitted to hospital for whatever reason, regardless of symptoms, is being tested, so the numbers reflect many things – how many people are dying generally, how prevalent the virus is, how accurate the test is.

What you need to look at is whether the number of deaths per million is significantly higher for the time of year than previous years, going back a few decades. Even in the summer spike where deaths were running well above the 5 year average, the peak was not historically way above other peaks in the last few decades.

The basic sceptic case is that covid is not an exceptional public health threat and therefore does not warrent exceptional measures (measures which are largely useless against it anyway).

240868 ▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Julian, 3, #540 of 1790 🔗

and even it if did warrant ‘exceptional measures’ then lockdown isn’t one of them. they quite predictably will cause more deaths than they save (and they save none – just defer them)

240878 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Motke, 6, #541 of 1790 🔗

Weekly deaths are rising at a normal rate for the time of year, and are currently in the lower third of the range for the past 27 years.

You can’t just look at numbers – you need to look at context. The propaganda fed through the MSM depends on people not looking in this way.

In basic terms, the notion of a ‘second wave’ is observable bollocks.

… and that’s before we get to the question of what people are dying of.

240907 ▶▶▶ tinxx, replying to Motke, 1, #542 of 1790 🔗

The ONS is pushing the deaths by day of reporting data – not the date of recorded death data. The 500 number is not representative of the actual death rate – it simply reflects when those deaths are reported. A look at the recorded death rate shows that it has already peaked and at no higher that 300 a day. They are also now showing the data as a line chart on the summary page – not a bar chart – which hides the volatility of the reporting series (as opposed to the deaths by date).

240933 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Motke, 1, #543 of 1790 🔗

… with over 500 daily deaths recorded yesterday …

Deaths
– by covid
– with covid
or
– not covid at all but we needed to up the fear
?

240970 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Motke, 1, #544 of 1790 🔗

There were a couple of excellent graphs yesterday which highlighted the difference between reporting day and actual day of death, some of “yesterday’s” deaths date from April.

241414 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to Motke, 1, #545 of 1790 🔗

Motke, you’ve fallen for the bullshit!!!! There weren’t 532 deaths yesterday. Look at the detail from yesterday’s figures shown below; https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths & you need to look here to see when those deaths actually took place, actually 164 of them took place on any one day.
The Government save up the deaths & then announce a load together, the actual death rate is declining. Don’t fall for this.

241717 ▶▶▶▶ Motke, replying to NickR, #546 of 1790 🔗

Ok thank you – point taken.

241534 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Motke, #547 of 1790 🔗

I’m a bit late to respond but will do so anyway.

On the 4th 492 deaths were reported – the highest figure since the 19th May.

But yesterday the recorded deaths for the 4th November had got to 297 – (which is lower than that for the 1st, now on 331, though the reported deaths for the 1st on that day was 162!)

Yesterday’s figure of 532 was the highest since the 12th May, was also a reported figure – not a recorded figure – meaning they occurred on any date in the previous two weeks or more.

I make the daily average reported number of deaths over the last seven days to be 360 – but I have no idea if that will be higher or lower than the recorded deaths for that period when it is finally worked out.

I think the daily average is increasing – but the increase is slowing down – which has nowt to do with the lockdown as it is occurring too soon.

My figures are coming from https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths

241571 ▶▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, #548 of 1790 🔗

While I was tapping more figures came in. So for 297 now read 308, for 331 read 343 and for 360 read 375. (If anyone is reading that is?)

241731 ▶▶▶▶ Motke, replying to Ned of the Hills, #549 of 1790 🔗

Thank you for your reply. All the figures and graphs are bit mind boggling, but I see you point about reported and recorded.

240780 nat, replying to nat, #550 of 1790 🔗

According to The Lancet, most vaccines are tested against other vaccines instead of placebos because it is considered unethical to deprive someone else of a vaccine. Consider the plight of a doctor using a placebo :

Injecting an infant, who cannot consent, with a saline solution that can do no good is not an activity that anyone would want to undertake lightly, yet this is what happens frequently in the course of paediatric vaccine trials

By replacement of the placebo with a control vaccine ensures that all participants in the trial obtain some benefit.

Some might argue that the the vaccine was not especially beneficial to the Brazilian volunteer who died after receiving the meningitis vaccine while participating in control group of the Astra Zeneca Covid -19 vaccine trial . On the contrary, his death provided conclusive evidence of the safety of the new Astra Zeneca vaccine by comparison. Consider the potential of subsequent generations of vaccines when tested against the two current front-runners for the vaccine, Moderna and Pfizer; with risks of serious injury currently at 80% and 60% respectively, further triumphs are assured.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(14)60926-0/fulltext

240790 ▶▶ A Heretic, replying to nat, #551 of 1790 🔗

“On the contrary, his death provided conclusive evidence of the safety of the new Astra Zeneca vaccine by comparison”

no it didn’t. Who’s to say the same guy wouldn’t have had a similarly adverse reaction from the covid vaccine?

240814 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to A Heretic, 1, #552 of 1790 🔗

No I don’t think it did either. I was being sarcastic, writing from the imagined perspective of unscrupulous vaccine makers, who will likely try to spin the death of a volunteer into a positive result for their vaccine.

240837 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to nat, 2, #553 of 1790 🔗

How COVID-19 Vaccine Trials Are Rigged

  • While vaccine makers insist any COVID-19 vaccine reaching the market will have undergone rigorous testing, the way trial protocols are designed suggests these vaccines will not have a significant impact on infection rates, hospitalizations or deaths
  • Shockingly, preventing infection with SARS-CoV-2 is not a criterion for success in these vaccine trials. The only criterion for a successful COVID-19 vaccine is a reduction of symptoms shared by both COVID-19 and the common cold
  • In AstraZeneca’s case, the interim analysis includes 50 vaccine recipients. The vaccine will be a success if 12 or fewer develop symptoms after exposure to SARS-CoV-2, compared to 19 in the 25-person control group
  • At least two cases of transverse myelitis (severe inflammation of the spinal cord) has been documented in AstraZeneca’s trial, and the company temporarily halted its trial in September 2020. In October, Johnson & Johnson also paused its trial due to an undisclosed “unexplained illness” in one of its participants
  • If the vaccine cannot reduce infection, hospitalization or death, then it cannot end the pandemic, which means everyone who takes the vaccine will be doing so in vain

Some COVID-19 Vaccine Trials Are Not Using Inert Placebos

In addition to all of that, some COVID-19 vaccine trials are using other vaccines as “placebo” rather than truly biologically inert substances such as saline, which effectively makes if far easier to hide any vaccine side effects. While Moderna is using a saline solution placebo, AstraZeneca is using injected meningococcal vaccine rather than a true placebo.

Another way AstraZeneca is masking potential side effects is by administering the vaccine along with certain drugs. In one of its study arms, subjects are given acetaminophen every six hours for the first 24 hours after inoculation. The pain and fever reducer could potentially mask and downplay side effects such as pain, fever, headache or general malaise.

In addition to masking side effects, it is widely recognized among literate natural medicine physicians that using acetaminophen [paracetamol] during acute viral infections is not a wise strategy as it impairs the immune response to fight the infection.

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/10/27/covid-vaccine-trials.aspx

240788 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #554 of 1790 🔗

Lies, damm lies and statistics. (Covid)
If one person is on £1,000 a week and another one is on £100 a week then the average wage is £550 a week.
True, but try telling that to the person on £100 a week.

240801 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #555 of 1790 🔗

There is a great book about how the concept of average is misused.

The End of Average – Todd Rose.

Interesting and easy to read.

240808 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to stewart, #556 of 1790 🔗

Thanks, I’ll check it out.

240816 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to stewart, 2, #557 of 1790 🔗

Average read imo

240823 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to stefarm, 1, #558 of 1790 🔗

🙂

240828 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to stefarm, 3, #559 of 1790 🔗

After all this is over, certain sceptics should go into writing comedy scripts and/or performing.
Totally serious.

240855 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #560 of 1790 🔗

Lies, damm lies and statistics”

One of the dumbest sayings in the phrase book.

Proper statistical understanding is actually the major hedge against lying and misinterpretation. It’s what the CEBM use to demolish government fabrication.

240885 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to RickH, #561 of 1790 🔗

Good point.

240936 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to RickH, 1, #562 of 1790 🔗

Proper statistical understanding

which is apparently unknown in the Vallance, Whitty, Hancock, Johnson circle.

240921 ▶▶ annie, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #563 of 1790 🔗

Then there was a very rare disease. It affected only two people: an old man of 90 and a newborn baby.
All efforts to control the disease were therefore focused on those around the average age of 45.

241045 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to annie, 1, #564 of 1790 🔗

A river has an average depth of four and a half feet between its banks.

If you are five feet six tall you should have no problem walking across – right ?

🙂

240791 Mark Aylmer, replying to Mark Aylmer, 6, #565 of 1790 🔗

Toby,

One point to look into on Jeremy Warner’s Telegraph piece. The Swine Flu vaccine did indeed cause narcolepsy in people, and was withdrawn from use. It’s not anti-Vaxxer propaganda. Around £60m in damages paid so far in the UK by the little known (hidden) Vaccine Damage Court. Tax payers money too.

240926 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark Aylmer, #566 of 1790 🔗

It’s not anti-Vaxxer propaganda.

It’s an anti-vaxxer fact then ! 🙂 Like so so many others.

240798 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 10, #567 of 1790 🔗

enforced mask wearing at my daughters primary school from this morning. I’m fuming

240804 ▶▶ stewart, replying to steve_w, 11, #568 of 1790 🔗

Ask for a written confirmation from the school that enforcing a mask on your daughter will not have any adverse physical effect. And refuse to comply if they don’t reply or don’t offer the assurance.

240838 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to stewart, 1, #569 of 1790 🔗

sorry just to confirm – parents only – many of whom just pulled up their t-shirt because they forgot or didnt read the email

I would just take my girls out of school rather than have them in a mask all day

on plus side – no masks among teachers. the head claims this is to stop parents passing it in the hope they can keep the school open. he has interpreted the rules very liberally until this morning and I’m giving him the benefit a bit

240845 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to stewart, 1, #570 of 1790 🔗

… and ask for written assurance that they take full responsibility for any deleterious effects.

240820 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to steve_w, 4, #571 of 1790 🔗

That is tragic, mask wearing has not been proven to be beneficial, or the whole of Europe would now be free of Covid, they’ve had to wear them everywhere.

240821 ▶▶ Simon Cook, replying to steve_w, 1, #572 of 1790 🔗

Good morning Steve. I would advise contacting UsForThem – very helpful (we had the same just a week ago at my daughter’s Primary). I wrote to the interim head, asking to see the Risk Assessment and have had no response. Best regards Simon

240822 ▶▶▶ Simon Cook, replying to Simon Cook, #573 of 1790 🔗

Sorry! to confirm I was referring to the parents not children.

240836 ▶▶ leggy, replying to steve_w, 1, #574 of 1790 🔗

Just ignore it. You’re exempt.

240803 davews, replying to davews, 26, #575 of 1790 🔗

Passing the fish and chip shop near us today I noticed a prominent notice on the door headed ‘face mask exemptions’. It went on to explain why some of their staff were not wearing masks – pretty uncomfortable and not to mention unhealthy in a steamy place. A full A4 page. Didn’t mention customers but I imagine they would be very welcome as well. Top marks to them.

240914 ▶▶ annie, replying to davews, 3, #576 of 1790 🔗

I wish our zombie shops would do the same!

241028 ▶▶ Freecumbria, replying to davews, #577 of 1790 🔗

Reminds me of the Jacob’s Mouse album ‘No fish shop parking’. Perhaps should be remastered as ‘No fish shop masking’

240806 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #578 of 1790 🔗

Phone call from David Greig to Mike Graham on Talk radio.
This recording should be repeated at high volume to Bojo, Whitless,Vacuous, Wankcock and all the sheep and collaborators to the end of their miserable existences.

240846 ▶▶ steph, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #579 of 1790 🔗

Can you give a synopsis please?

240871 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to steph, 4, #580 of 1790 🔗

It was on Talk radio between 10:45 and 11:00. today, probably you could find it on YouTube.
David rang Mike Graham and he said he had been under lockdown since the 23rd of March and the “authorities” would not allow him to leave his sheltered accommodation and was constantly questioned about what he was doing day to day and in his own words was “at the end of his tether”
It is heartbreaking to listen to.

240939 ▶▶▶▶ steph, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #581 of 1790 🔗

Poor man. There are probably thousands like him.
Thanks for replying.

240967 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to steph, #582 of 1790 🔗

This situation must be “hammered home” to those that I mentioned before.
Since David’s call there has been at least 2 other calls along the same lines, one lady told Mike Graham that her father who was in sheltered accommodation and just couldn’t cope with the draconian rules of the present time and sadly committed suicide.

241004 ▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #583 of 1790 🔗

It’s here, but there’s a major problem with the upload and it’s unlistenable at that point.

https://youtu.be/hXWFc6LdEPM

241017 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to leggy, #584 of 1790 🔗

I’m sure that TR will sort it.
Mike Graham said that he would send a recording of the call to Downing street.

240815 Darryl, replying to Darryl, 13, #585 of 1790 🔗

I wonder how much the people pushing for ‘anti-vaxx’ legislation receive in funding from big pharma and connected foundations?

It’s interesting how the odds are being completely stacked in favour of big pharma to the point where any questioning of their products will be impossible without having millions for legal bills. Yet another example of how China is seen as a model state by the technocratic elite.

I wonder how long it is before questioning any aspect of man made climate change or genetically modified foods is similarly criminalised? both are tools used by the social engineers to reshape society.

240832 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Darryl, 1, #586 of 1790 🔗

Big Pharma is the Tobacco Industry of the 21st century.

Of course, its products, unlike tobacco, are not entirely harmful – far from it. But the impulse to profit overwhelms the public benefit impulse.

In addition, the influence in this era of globalisation and concentrated wealth is proportionately more.

Yesterday, I cited the 2010 Council of Europe report on the Swine ‘Flu debacle. It really is a forewarning.

240919 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to RickH, 1, #587 of 1790 🔗

… its products, unlike tobacco, are not entirely harmful

Fuck off. Why are you pushing government bollocks ?

240824 Mark, replying to Mark, 21, #588 of 1790 🔗

Anti-vaxxers’ gospel of fear: Reckless, dangerous and irresponsible… Dr MICHAEL FITZPATRICK launches a savage assault on the conspiracy theorists who want us to boycott the new wonder jab comment image
DR MICHAEL FITZPATRICK: This pioneering breakthrough represents the first real chance that the disease could be conquered – far earlier than many dared to hope. Yet there is one group that, with reckless and shameful irresponsibility, is doing everything it can to thwart the best chance we have of returning to normality. It is, of course, the shrill anti-vaccination movement – better known as anti-vaxxers…

one group that, with reckless and shameful irresponsibility, is doing everything it can to thwart the best chance we have of returning to normality

This, published on the DM front page, is of course incitement to hatred and likely to lead to acts of discrimination and violence against sceptics. In that, it’s similar to a lot of what the government and establishment media have been pushing throughout this panic, with encouragement to blame unmasked and dissenting people for society’s problems and to snitch to the authorities.

I’m not an anti-vaxxer, any more than I’m a racist or a homophobe, in the senses covered by the extreme ends of the intentionally flexible meanings of those smear terms. But I don’t like censorship and persecution, and I tend to support groups that face it, especially if I sympathise with the milder ends of the opinion spectrums covered. Moderate “racism”, “homophobia” and “anti-vax” opinions are perfectly legitimate and imo probably correct.

As the campaign against dissent on vaccines ramps up, let’s just remind ourselves how smear terms work. They operate as a kind of fallacy known as “motte and bailey”. The term is demonised by reference to the most extreme, silly and nasty segments. Then the hostility and consequent repressive measures generated by that demonisation are applied to people at the moderate ends. When people complain about the harshness of the measures, the meaning goes back to the secure ground of the most extreme cases.

240830 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Mark, 1, #589 of 1790 🔗

Do you think the DM really thinks it’s a “wonder jab” or are they very subtly trolling?

240844 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to stewart, 6, #590 of 1790 🔗

Hard to say with the DM, as they seem to have been quite diverse in their coverage almost throughout (in pleasant contrast to the lockstep fear propaganda of the BBC/Guardian/Times etc).

But anti-lockdown does not necessarily mean anti-vaccine.

Having said that, publishing a piece like this by a pro-vaccine fanatic does not mean that they are going to push only that line. We have to wait and see if it is balanced in due course by more measured or opposed opinions.

240874 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Mark, 1, #591 of 1790 🔗

Don’t think you would publish it on the front page unless it was a strong editorial line.

It’s a central government co-ordinated campaign, they admitted they would go on a massive propaganda campaign so not in the slightest bit surprised.

Any sceptics would be better off avoiding the mainstream media over the next few months for their own mental health. They are deliberately going to be made very uncomfortable and fearful. The Conservatives new favourite tools always seems to be terror and intimidation.

240929 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Darryl, 2, #592 of 1790 🔗

The DM have published quite a few hysterical coronapanic pieces on their online front pages over the past few months, as well as publishing probably more sceptical pieces than any other mainstream outlet, bar possibly the Telegraph and Spectator.

But it is clear that there is a massive, organised media campaign to push the vaccine in operation today. Doubtless the Mail likes government money just as much as any other business, regardless their own private editorial views.

240950 ▶▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Darryl, #593 of 1790 🔗

Unless we are paying a million quid for the privilege as happened with the most expensive app in history.

240945 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Mark, 2, #594 of 1790 🔗

The argument I want to see is not anti vaccination just anti this vaccination with illusions to its efficacy and necessity.

240959 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Will, 2, #595 of 1790 🔗

Indeed. But you will of course find yourself, if you put that argument, demonised and censored along with the most extreme “anti-vaxxers”. The structures put in place to control dissent and justified by those (often exaggerated) extremes, will be used to suppress your position.

That’s how these things work. No need to work it out from first principles for this case, when you can just read the history of how it was done previously.

This is exactly how the “racism” smear term was demonised and the illiberal structures put in place that were then used to persecute moderates, and suppress dissent on separate but loosely related issues, such as mass immigration, or leaving the EU.

241197 ▶▶▶ John Stone, replying to stewart, 1, #596 of 1790 🔗

Well, you wouldn’t look for consistency or principle in the Mail. This is an ugly article – it is supposed to be an appeal to science but of course it is to unreason, and setting people against one another for reasons of state – a piece of Neo-Fascism.

240863 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Mark, 2, #597 of 1790 🔗

Good news – it means they know they have to overcome resistance.

240930 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to calchas, 1, #598 of 1790 🔗

That’s the spirit!

240976 ▶▶ Simon Cook, replying to Mark, 2, #599 of 1790 🔗

Good morning Mark.

I just found this also in the Mail from Oct 2019 – https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7568953/DR-MICHAEL-FITZPATRICK-campaign-against-dangerous-vaccine-misinformation.html

Of course it’s awful what happened with his son, but this reads like a crusade.

Kindest regards

Simon

241041 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Simon Cook, 2, #600 of 1790 🔗

Morning Simon.

Interesting piece of background, thanks.

It’s often the case that the most effective campaigners against liberty are those who have suffered personal tragedy. Examples abound, and it’s a combination of the emotional sympathy for their loss making it difficult to argue against them, and their tireless zeal, fuelled by bitter personal loss.

Examples are plentiful in the safety zealotry campaigns, but also in the political correctness issues – consider the case of for instance the Stephen Lawrence family, whose experience was used to push illiberal antiracism and the institutionalisation of political bias and zealotry in the police (with the dire results we now see over BLM and other politically motivated mobs).

Crusade is absolutely right.

241333 ▶▶▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to Mark, #601 of 1790 🔗

He says he opposes compulsory vaccination so he accepts people should be free to choose.

240831 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 6, #602 of 1790 🔗

Sorry if this has already been posted:

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-professor-jonathan-van-tam-uses-mum-test-to-reassure-britons-over-vaccine-safety-12129815

Not reassuring. Don’t trust any of this lot to not ‘steal your eyeballs and come back for the sockets’. The reality is, all of the elite, including the CMO and Deputy CMO, must surely count as ‘key workers’. As such, they need to be first in line for the vaccine, with their partners, parents and children.

240947 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #603 of 1790 🔗

Their children did not have any choice when they were born into the ‘care’ of psychopaths, please leave them out of it – they deserve protection as much as any other child.

Why do you think having the puppets take part in a vaccination theatre show is going to do anything to help our situation. The only acceptable outcome here is their arrest, investigation and trial.

240840 NickR, replying to NickR, 4, #604 of 1790 🔗

Just to put all this in historical context, I just lifted this chart from http://www.coviddashboard.live/health/ , for those of you keen on a bit a data take a look, it’s very good.

240861 ▶▶ Motke, replying to NickR, #605 of 1790 🔗

Please don’t slam me if I wrong, but doesn’t this graph show that aside from the Spanish Flu and some particular bad flu seasons, overall, Covid-19 mortality is much greater than typical influenza?

240880 ▶▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to Motke, 1, #606 of 1790 🔗

The line is a bit misleading as it goes across the whole graph. We had more deaths registered as covid this year than a typical flu year, but as you can see we have certainly had years where flu deaths have been ~50,000 in a single season.

240922 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Motke, 1, #607 of 1790 🔗

aside from the Spanish Flu and some particular bad flu seasons, overall, Covid-19 mortality is much greater than typical influenza ?”

That’s generally the case, if you accept the numbers currently attributed to covid19, especially as these (in the graph) are not influenza deaths, but “influenza and pneumonia”.

On the other hand, these death numbers are not adjusted either for population size or age profile, and thus tend to make past numbers look much better in relation to modern numbers.

It’s dangerous to be too cocky about pushing the “covid 19 no more dangerous than flu” line without having full numbers and analysis to back your position up, because it’s not easily defensible under pressure.

The fully nuanced point is really that the impact of covid19 is not out of line with the impact of the winter death peak in bad flu years. “No worse than flu” is a shorthand.

240973 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to Motke, #608 of 1790 🔗

A couple of points:

  1. The numbers aren’t populations adjusted
  2. Deaths were higher in the 90s & no one suggested immiserating the population and imprisoning the population
  3. The issue is one of proportion. No one is saying there wasn’t a pandemic, but there isn’t one now & the actions taken have been wholly disproportionate to the threat.
241293 ▶▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to Motke, #609 of 1790 🔗

Covid seems to have about the same death rate as the 1968 flu, which was higher than seasonal view as a new strain. We kept calm and carried on in 1968.

240841 calchas, replying to calchas, 15, #610 of 1790 🔗

A – Thesis – Masking and Distancing are stopping massive numbers of deaths.

B – Belarus has no distancing or masks.

C- Belarus is not experiencing a massive number of deaths bexond previous
flu outbreaks.

Therefore A cannot be true.

240858 ▶▶ Mark, replying to calchas, 1, #611 of 1790 🔗

That’s fine, for logical discussion.

Now try to win the same point in a political discussion. (Hint – that’s the one we here have been getting our backsides kicked on, politically, for the past six months or so. Granted we have made steady progress, but the policies pushed by the advocates of unreason are still in place.)

240879 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Mark, 5, #612 of 1790 🔗

Yes – the difference is that the fearmongers control the media. It is not that we have lost the discussion, but that they control the presentation of the discussion.

However, each day more people realize the truth than the day before.
In my opinion at some stage a critical mass of ecepticism will be reached and the public narrative will collapse overnight.

241016 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to calchas, 1, #613 of 1790 🔗

they control the presentation of the discussion

True, but it’s also the case that political debate is not logical debate – different rules apply. For instance, in a logical debate an appeal to authority is likely to be ineffective – it can be immediately dismissed as based on a fallacy. But appeal to authority is one of the most effective tactics in political debate.

241297 ▶▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Mark, 1, #614 of 1790 🔗

I claim no expertise in Philosophy, Politics or Economics, but I do know that one aspect of Philosophy is the study of logical fallacies, with a view to improving the quality of one’s arguments by avoiding such fallacies. It seems to me that many politicians take the opposite approach by deliberately using logical fallacies (such as the appeal to authority) as part of their debating tactics.

241479 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Edward, #615 of 1790 🔗

Yes, but they don’t use them just out of perversity. They use them because they win political arguments.

Logic is pure, distilled abstract reason (or as close as we can get to it, subject arguably to limitations of language and thinking), whereas political disputation is about human reasoning, using the “heuristics” that humans have evolved to improve their survivability in a dangerous world.

242202 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark Tinker, replying to Mark, #616 of 1790 🔗

Build yourself a logical fallacy bingo card and see how many of them are being used every day by the lockdown fanatics. Better still see how many have been used (in exactly the same way) by Climate Change activists over the last decade. Or for that matter Remainiacs. Same people, same tactics, same politics of emotion used to drives policies of control and rent extraction.

240843 Darryl, 9, #617 of 1790 🔗

Dr Vernon Coleman makes some interesting points in his latest video explaining how many of the big improvements in life expectancy and health have had little to do with big pharma and far more to do with improving living conditions. https://brandnewtube.com/watch/how-the-coronavirus-has-permanently-destroyed-health-care_kwZO73zRatSupLc.html

Since antibiotics and the first useful vaccines the health improvements haven’t really been that impressive considering the amount of money spent on the industry.

240847 Arnie, replying to Arnie, 37, #618 of 1790 🔗

Happy days.

Doing the school/college run here this week (we’re very rural so no buses, etc.) every day from Monday to today I have seen more & more people about.

I used to curse the massive traffic jams into town, I certainly liked it when the roads were empty but now I am finding a perverse joy in being snarled up for ages whilst everybody is going about their business.

Little person came home from school yesterday, she told the teacher that masks don’t work. She went on to explain why and was given a house point for her efforts. She’s picked up half a dozen new ‘best friends’ too because of it. (the teachers are required to wear masks not the kids)

College has gone full on mask crazy but teen has resisted. When pulled up for not wearing a mask outside (in the rain) she now uses the Discrimination Act as her defence. Most of the other teens cower away from the teachers but not this one! The teachers try to use every trick in the book, they are certainly very underhand and dirty with their tricks but the main thing they rely on is ignorance of the law and the difference between ‘guidance’ and the law.

My brother is very good at finding loopholes or unintended consequences in the law, his favourite expression is
‘it’s their law so I’m just doing what it says I’m allowed to’ or some such.

I tell the kids that the
‘rules are made for everyone else’
and
‘I don’t care what you do, just don’t get caught’ (with a few caveats of course!).

One of my favourites is:
‘deny everything, even if you’re caught doing it!’

And lastly my number one favourite,
‘If you can’t beat ’em, confuse them’

PS. When I was going out my Dad used to say ‘if you’re not in bed by ten o’clock you might as well come home…’, not sure that applies to daughters though…

240850 ▶▶ maggie may, replying to Arnie, 6, #619 of 1790 🔗

I love your family Arnie!

240966 ▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to maggie may, 1, #620 of 1790 🔗

Me too Maggie. Thank you.

240870 ▶▶ annie, replying to Arnie, 7, #621 of 1790 🔗

Congratulations to your Little Person. Well done!

240968 ▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to annie, #622 of 1790 🔗

Thanks Annie.

241214 ▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Arnie, 1, #623 of 1790 🔗

One of my dad’s favourites was, “Rules are made for the guidance of wise men and the blind obedience of fools”.

I find myself using this a lot these days for some reason.

240849 stewart, replying to stewart, 10, #624 of 1790 🔗

When the government starts promoting its vaccine programme the media will:

(a) inform the public of all the facts: the pros, the limitations, the risks, the side-effects.
(b) forcefully promote the government programme and suppress any objections to the vaccine.

Hmm, I wonder which it will be….

240860 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to stewart, 6, #625 of 1790 🔗

plenty will want it and good luck to them. I cant see anyone being forced when there aren’t enough to go round

240877 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to steve_w, 3, #626 of 1790 🔗

And just wait till large quantities have to be junked because refrigeration has failed!

240911 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to IanE, 1, #627 of 1790 🔗

Then they will just inject saline which will be every bit as effective in countering a virus that will have burnt itself out.

240906 ▶▶ Will, replying to stewart, 2, #628 of 1790 🔗

All the more reason why we mustn’t be distracted by the vaccine rabbit hole which has opened up to try and divide the Lockdown Sceptic argument. If moderates come to appreciate they are being lied to over the Covid data and the need for Lockdown, they will be more receptive to the argument that the vaccine is dangerously rushed and not actually necessary.

240857 c s, replying to c s, 10, #629 of 1790 🔗

While the recent Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine news is positive and the drug clearly works at preventing mild symptoms, the data also says something interesting about the virus itself. The trial enrolled 43,538 patients split 50/50 between drug and placebo arms which means about 22,000 people received nothing more than a placebo (unclear what the placebo was). The trial, which started dosing patients more than 5 months ago, has now seen 94 reported cases (with at least one symptom, rather than asymptomatic cases) including ~84 in the placebo arm (given the headline 90% efficacy figure). In other words, in the last 5 months just 0.38% of patients receiving nothing more than a placebo have presented with a symptom of COVID. Furthermore, the FDA say that in order to file for Emergency Use Authorisation the company should accrue at least 5 severe cases in the placebo arm which is expected to occur this month. i.e. it has taken 5 months to see 5 severe cases (0.02% of the 22,000). Am I missing something here or perhaps the virus really isn’t all that bad/prevalent and that current numbers are simply being boosted by the massive levels of testing with patients incorrectly diagnosed and/or classified as COVID simply on the basis of a “positive” PCR test designed to pick up the tiniest fragment of viral RNA.

240875 ▶▶ Zak Thelotofem, replying to c s, 4, #630 of 1790 🔗

Good point, more or less corroborated by the recent Liverpool results

240888 ▶▶ IanE, replying to c s, 2, #631 of 1790 🔗

I think that even your first sentence is dubious: these ‘results’ are preliminary and come from a heavily biased source with, as yet, no attempt at peer review. As with the US election, it is surely too early to accept the orthodox views!

240909 ▶▶▶ c s, replying to IanE, 1, #632 of 1790 🔗

I agree there is still a lot of uncertainty and I am not suggesting it is a magic bullet but I think the numbers do at least suggest some drug effect. I still won’t be taking it anyway

240917 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to c s, 2, #633 of 1790 🔗

A tiny effect which the people on whom it was trialled don’t have need of.

I doubt the vaccine will do much to stop the vulnerable from dying of it, though to know for sure you’d need to test it on them.

I don’t feel it is positive. Too rushed and will be adopted for all the wrong reasons, will cover up the fact the world has gone mad, which has done and will do far more damage than the virus.

240891 ▶▶ leggy, replying to c s, 1, #634 of 1790 🔗

I’m amazed by the numbers too. I have to admit to be confused by the fact that participants appear to have been left to contract covid of their own devices, organically if you will. I’m no scientist, but I’d have thought any such trial would have been based upon the test groups being exposed to the actual virus to measure immunity. What am I missing?

240904 ▶▶▶ c s, replying to leggy, #635 of 1790 🔗

Yes good point. Would be better to then expose all participants to the virus after dosing to measure effectiveness?

240924 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to leggy, #636 of 1790 🔗

That was the plan with the Challenge trials but I imagine they will be quietly sent to Coventry.

241104 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to leggy, #637 of 1790 🔗

Ethics. It’s an ethical conundrum to give people live virus. Provided of course they have any to give.

240920 ▶▶ Will, replying to c s, #638 of 1790 🔗

Brilliant post. Thank you.

240876 John Stone, 1, #639 of 1790 🔗

Blunt challenge to Whitty, BMJ on-line:

Re: The BMJ interview: Chris Whitty, England’s chief medical officer, on covid-19 Re: The BMJ interview: Chris Whitty, England’s chief medical officer, on covid-19 Fiona Godlee, Mun-Keat Looi. 371:doi 10.1136/bmj.m4235
Dear Editor
It is essential and urgent that the government and its advisers address the controversy over PCR testing and the risk of false positives.
Carl Heneghan and Tom Jefferson, ‘There is another way to beat coronavirus, PM – and here it is…’, Mail on Sunday 31 October 2020, https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8900897/Oxford-experts-DR-TOM-J
https://www.cebm.net/oxford-covid-19-evidence-service/
Competing interests: AgeofAutism.com, an on-line daily journa

240882 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 7, #640 of 1790 🔗

These groups are very skilled. They feed on fear, that little grain of truth, and they amplify it.

Sounds like a description of the government’s approach, as advised by the SAGE sub-committee of behavioural scientists.

240886 ▶▶ annie, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #641 of 1790 🔗

My thoughts exactly.

240890 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #642 of 1790 🔗

Yep: standard Lefty strategy.

240896 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Steve Hayes, 4, #643 of 1790 🔗

“…..that little grain of truth, and they amplify it”

You could say that’s how the PCR process works too.

240887 CGL, replying to CGL, 8, #644 of 1790 🔗

I know it had a LOT of upticks, but if anyone missed Fat Freddies Cat’s post late yesterday – do have a look if you want to feel more positive (don’t we all!). I think it will be my bed-time reading for a while.
Go to yesterdays comments and sort by Most Voted. It’s fairly near the top.
You know you want to.

240893 ▶▶ calchas, replying to CGL, 4, #645 of 1790 🔗

Yes that was great.

If anybody hasn’t read it, then I recommend looking for it

240927 ▶▶▶ steph, replying to calchas, 1, #646 of 1790 🔗

Seconded. I had vowed to stay away from the internet and failed. That one really cheered me up. More Fat Freddie’s please 😀

241306 ▶▶ Edward, replying to CGL, 1, #648 of 1790 🔗

That was the power station engineer – great post.

240892 annie, 23, #649 of 1790 🔗

The Royal Society has decreed that the Earth is flat and the sun goes round it.
Anyone arguing against this view will be imprisoned.
The Royal Society has decreed that rotten potatoes are edible if mixed with grass.
Anyone disputing this will be put in the pillory.
The Royal Society has decreed that two plus two equals five.
Anyone casting doubt on this statement will be put to death.

240897 John Stone, replying to John Stone, 5, #650 of 1790 🔗

Very unpleasant rabble rousing article by Dr Michael Fitzpatrick in the Mail stoking up hatred while pretending to appeal science:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8935677/Dr-MICHAEL-FITZPATRICK-launches-savage-assault-anti-vaxxers-want-boycott-new-jab.html

240944 ▶▶ Eddy, replying to John Stone, 4, #651 of 1790 🔗

The comments say it all.

I think up to 50% of the population will be questioning this vaccine. I know no-one who will be taking it.

240987 ▶▶ Liewe, replying to John Stone, 3, #652 of 1790 🔗

The comments are enlightening. The most astonishing are those who say “No vaccine, no treatment”. Seeing as obesity is the biggest co-morbidity indicator, should we then say: “no weight loss, no treatment”? What about: “you smoke, no cancer treatment”? Or “you went for a walk, no treatment for your sprained ankle?

240900 JHuntz, replying to JHuntz, 13, #653 of 1790 🔗

Surely the plan to vaccinate NHS workers first will be met with huge resistance. Of all the fields to be sceptical of this vaccine you would think it would be NHS workers. Would this not be an instance of mass union strikes? Any better informed than me advise of how they think this will play out?

240983 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to JHuntz, 4, #654 of 1790 🔗

The staff unions will be fully paid up pro vaccine, they will have to organise solidarity themselves and quickly.

240918 William Gruff, replying to William Gruff, 12, #655 of 1790 🔗

1920 : ‘For your tomorrow we gave our today’, ‘at the going down of the sun, and in the morning, we will remember them’

2020 : Anti vaxxers should be jailed.

What did they suffer and die for?

240960 ▶▶ leggy, replying to William Gruff, 5, #656 of 1790 🔗

I’ve just watched the service at Westminster Abbey (having just got back from my local memorial – only person there) – it was like some dystopian movie. Disgusting platitudes from Wellby. Something like “we are only safe when we know that everyone is safe”.

241093 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to leggy, 3, #657 of 1790 🔗

Skiing holidays must be very unsafe then.
Welby is to religion what arsenic is to the human body.

241216 ▶▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to annie, 2, #658 of 1790 🔗

do you recall that classic detective story – perhaps Wimsey? perhaps Poirot? – in which the murderer had prepared over the course of many months, by ingesting very small amounts of arsenic himself in order to build up his tolerance of it? Then he was able to murder his victim by serving a meal which he himself ate plentifully of, able to point to this as evidence of his obvious innocence. It was discovered by testing the composition of his fingernails.
I feel certain this is in some way relevant to your view of the Archbishop.

240923 TyRade, 5, #659 of 1790 🔗

while we’re bandying quotes about, prof Mills – this one’s for you: “the continual grumbling has been sharply reduced since we have been passing death sentences on defeatists, which we have carried out and publicised.” Dr Joseph Goebbels, 12 November 1943 (clap for him tomorrow, prof Mills, 77th anniversary of his prescience)

240954 ▶▶ Julian, replying to steve_w, 1, #661 of 1790 🔗

And yet you’ll read in the papers that “cases” and “deaths” are rising

240969 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Julian, 1, #662 of 1790 🔗

and by some measures they are

small second ‘ripple’ in deaths
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

just that it is a) not abnormal b) small in comparison to normal variability in deaths c) overwhelmed by people not dying of other things

I expect, come spring, Sweden will be seen as the gold standard on how to react to a pandemic. East Asians countries aren’t comparable as they seem to have large scale immunity

240962 ▶▶ Freecumbria, replying to steve_w, 2, #663 of 1790 🔗

Thanks. Here’s Harald’s twitter post with the latest Swedish update

https://twitter.com/HaraldofW/status/1326203608032022528

240951 ▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to PoshPanic, 5, #665 of 1790 🔗

and yet none of the MSM will report this…

240984 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to PoshPanic, 1, #666 of 1790 🔗

Sell the stock whilst is is still high

241048 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to PoshPanic, 1, #667 of 1790 🔗

“His stock sale was carried out through a routine Rule 10b5-1, a predetermined trading plan that allows company staff to sell their stocks in line with insider trading laws.”

How is that a thing???

241103 ▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to JHuntz, #668 of 1790 🔗

Once an announcement is made and the public know about it, then it is okay to deal if you are a Director. These rules have been in place for Director’s (and others) inside knowledge share dealing for a very long time. If the announcement was bad news for the company and he sold prior to an announcement thus gaining an advantage, then that would be insider dealing and illegal.

240934 Zak Thelotofem, replying to Zak Thelotofem, 4, #669 of 1790 🔗

Shorter version of Ivor Cummin’s excellent Update – crammed with facts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuZ0WmC8uP0&t=13s

240981 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Zak Thelotofem, 2, #670 of 1790 🔗

Thanks. Great to listen to again.

Nick Hudson from PANDA explains the data and graphs so well. Anyone interested in data should look at this site. They have the data for all the countries. https://pandata.org click on live data

240938 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 14, #671 of 1790 🔗

I’ve been looking for some science to follow in this area but have drawn a blank

If you do have any data would you please share

1 Is there any evidence as to how lockdown scepticism is transferred for one person to another?

2 Is there a test for LS20 and if yes what is the false positive rate?

3 Is it possible to recover from LS20?

4 Is the rise of LS20 among Tory MP’s exponential?

5 Is there ‘T’ cell immunity to LS20. I only ask as Labour MP’s and Tory MP’s frequent the same building yet the former seem immune

I have created a model that suggests the pig dictator and the Handy Cock will been thrown under the bus by a Tory party desperate to survive

My model suggests a date before Christmas

240972 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Cecil B, 6, #672 of 1790 🔗

I think there was a “spike” in LS20 when the pubs and other recreational activities were allowed to re-open. I think it spreads because people talk about things to each other and point out contradictions in approved government propaganda guidelines.

They’ve started to “flatten the curve” by closing down most of these activities and using the Police and media to intimidate the symptoms of LS20 out of those infected.

Next step, close down sites like this. It is causing a dangerous spread of “mis-information”

240985 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to captainbeefheart, 2, #673 of 1790 🔗

Thanks, I will input all of this additional science into the model

Just run it again, and the date has moved to November 28th

241202 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to Cecil B, 3, #674 of 1790 🔗

Pieces of paper definitely pose a risk of transmission. There may be dangerous things written on them – facts, ideas, information, etc, all highly infectious agents of LS20. In my own research in the field, I have observed such pieces of paper being purposefully distributed at a complementary health clinic (the facts in this case pertained to the exemption clauses in the masks law). More broadly, as my colleague captainbeefheart has pointed out, any physical or virtual location facilitating the exchange of ideas risks enabling a ‘superspreader’ event.

240946 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 17, #675 of 1790 🔗

British gas advert on commercial radio stations, stating blah,blah,blah and of course: “our engineers will follow social distancing”
I’ve got news for BG and others; if anybody comes to my house and insists on S D, don’t bother, because your company will not get my custom.

240952 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Fingerache Philip., 9, #676 of 1790 🔗

No-one who has come to our house to do work or quote for stuff has seemed bothered about any of the nonsense – no distancing over and above what is normal, happy to share pens, drink tea, the few that had masks took them off immediately

240964 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #677 of 1790 🔗

Boots the chemist YouTube ad tells me only that they want to keep me and their, bemasked, staff safe before I click it off.

240991 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #678 of 1790 🔗

Its the little things, like you don’t stop to let a car with a muzzled driver in, or stop to let a muzzled pedestrian cross, its amazing how many of them want to dice with death and get themselves stuck in the middle of a busy road, they should really stick to their ‘safety’ rules and look for a proper crossing.

240994 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, #679 of 1790 🔗

(into traffic)

240999 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Dan Clarke, #680 of 1790 🔗

Like it!!

240992 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #681 of 1790 🔗

Most delivery people don’t worry. Our grocery delivery emails say that the delivery person will stand back and that we can’t take the crates inside. Neither happens with our deliveries (thankfully!)

241105 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Fingerache Philip., #682 of 1790 🔗

we had a BG engineer to fit a gas meter. He asked if he needed to wear a mask. I said no. As for SD, I don’t think he would have appreciated me peering over his shoulder as he did his work.

240955 John Galt, replying to John Galt, 10, #683 of 1790 🔗

It should be made a criminal offence to spread anti-vaxx myths and the public should report offenders, the Royal Society and British Academy have said amid concerns that baseless fears over a coronavirus vaccine will damage uptake.

A rapid review on COVID-19 Vaccine Deployment has called for people to be “inoculated” against misinformation, which can spread rapidly on social media.

You only need one very simple fact as to why you don’t want to take the vaccine – a vaccine usually takes more than 10 years to roll out, and a large part of that is testing. This has barely been tested. To add to it, I’d then follow up with a mention of thalidomide and how that wasn’t tested much or for long enough. That’s it.

comment image

241027 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to John Galt, 2, #684 of 1790 🔗

The test results from the manufacturer were accepted at face value here in the U.K. for Thalidomide and licensed it for use. In the USA they didn’t accept the results and hence it was never licensed.

240956 annie, 20, #685 of 1790 🔗

If we were being swept by pulmonary plague, which has a virtually 100% death rate, I’d rush to get the vaccine because the outcome couldn’t possibly be worse than the outcome of contracting the disease.

As things are, however…

240957 TheBigman, 22, #686 of 1790 🔗

FIRST THEY COME FOR MY NEIGHBOUR AND I DIDN’T HELP. THEN THEY CAME FOR ME…

Remember this paraphrase of the Stasi actions.

So let us recap:
A ‘new’ virus appears (now found in lungs of dead Chinese miners from 2012)
China hides it, the rest of the world doesn’t know if it is mand made or not, panic ensues.
It slowly makes it’s way West (because viruses have one direction) and we kept borders open and didn’t take any precautions.
Italy is hit people are not dying in droves. But media say they are.
The UK enters a lockdown without the people’s consent. Laws are passed banning travel and protest etc
Borders are still open.
It’s noticed that nothing special is happening and as of the 8th April the deaths were falling away.
Lockdown continues, new cycle lanes and other pre-existing agendas have now been passed without review by governments of the UK.
Lockdown eased by mid-summer. “only vaccines give us hope” then so begins the anti-choice brigade on people making their own decisions.
Deaths are switched to ‘cases’ without definition of what a case is.

Etc etc

Vaccines were always the plan. People should be worried about that. This vaccine may just be water or some such non offensive substance but like the lockdown it self it won’t stop there. Other agendas will come out because they know the public will comply out of fear, anyone who doesn’t is charged and put in the gulag, sorry, jail.

If mandatory vaccination is allowed and coerced then it could just as easily be something new. E.g obesity is attached to your social credit score, so you are in danger and for your ‘own safety’ we can only allow you to eat government sanctioned non-foods till such times we believe you are safe.
Above may seem OTT but then so would today’s situation if you were told it a year ago.

WAKE UP! RESIST THEIR AGENDAS AND RETAKE YOUR FREEDOMS BACK!

240963 John Stone, 9, #687 of 1790 🔗

If the products are transparently safe and effective they will not need to be supported by a brutal Neo-Fascist hate campaign which is fast destroying whatever reputation our country once had for tolerance.

240977 Arnie, replying to Arnie, 6, #688 of 1790 🔗

I want a badge with one word on it:

Thalidomide

240993 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Arnie, 4, #689 of 1790 🔗

Unfortunately people think we’re much cleverer now and couldn’t possibly make the same mistakes. Science has got all sorted now, they use computers and everything.

240997 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Achilles, 1, #690 of 1790 🔗

Quite.

241001 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Achilles, #691 of 1790 🔗

and are much less corrupt

241241 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Achilles, #692 of 1790 🔗

The swine flu vaccine from 2009 was a disaster and had to be withdrawn from circulation fairly quickly. It was also a fast tracked and was also for an infection that posed very little risk for normally healthy people.

240979 Eddy, replying to Eddy, 24, #693 of 1790 🔗

I AM NOT ANTI-VAX

I AM PRO-CHOICE

They don’t like that one at all.

240986 ▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to Eddy, 12, #694 of 1790 🔗

They aren’t helping themselves by trying to make it mandatory. If it’s so safe and we really need it then just making it available to anyone that wants it should be enough.

240996 ▶▶ John P, replying to Eddy, 17, #695 of 1790 🔗

I’m not anti-vax, but I’m not having any covid vaccine on a point of principle. Even if it’s perfectly safe. The virus is not especially dangerous. It sets us all up for dependency on big pharma and their vaccines. They can f off.

I’d love to have some of that snake oil that Toby mentioned above though. Sounds great. Anyone know where I can get some?

241021 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to John P, 9, #696 of 1790 🔗

It sets us all up for dependency on big pharma and their vaccines.”

This is a good point. There is a tendency to see a problem needs solving – especially if there is money involved. This isn’t such a problem – as Sweden shows. Why – given Sweden’s results – would they inoculate the entire country with something fresh off the lab bench?

241069 ▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to steve_w, 3, #697 of 1790 🔗

Yes, it is a good point when you think of all those poor folks addicted to tranquillisers and anti-depressants.

240982 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 31, #698 of 1790 🔗

I’m not anti-vaxx. I’ve had all the childhood jabs, travel jabs etc.

I just don’t want to take one that’s not been tested to make me safe from something I’m safe from anyway

241007 ▶▶ MizakeTheMizan, replying to steve_w, 12, #699 of 1790 🔗

I’m not an anti-vaxxer, and me and my family have had all our jabs. But vaccines are always a balance between risks and reducing risks. In this case the risk of the vaccine is high because it has been rushed, and the risks it is protecting from are negligible.

241015 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 6, #700 of 1790 🔗

and its ‘novel’

and we are about to reach herd immunity

I wonder what the reaction to the vaccine is in Sweden? I imagine its ‘why bother?’

241285 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to steve_w, 1, #701 of 1790 🔗

They have far less need to validate their narrative. I last heard the Public Health Board saying they weren’t planning mass rollouts.

241013 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to steve_w, 2, #702 of 1790 🔗

Seems sensible enough.

241232 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Tom Blackburn, #703 of 1790 🔗

Anything else would be crazy.

241115 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to steve_w, 1, #704 of 1790 🔗

I too have had all my vaccinations, including rabies for Indonesia (which is a lot better than getting rabies). But they’re rushing this out with no peer reviews, no idea about even medium term side effects. Until I hear from authoritative independent sources that it’s safe and effective, I won’t be trusting the government that lies to me every day even about things it understands, to reassure me about something it doesn’t.

240988 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 17, #705 of 1790 🔗

Bojo thanking the British public for following LD2.
Exactly what planet his he on?

241003 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #706 of 1790 🔗

Planet Credibility. Actually my cousin in NZ thinks we are all under house arrest, until December. She also heard we had mass graves.

241008 ▶▶▶ Eddy, replying to Dan Clarke, 5, #707 of 1790 🔗

Does NZ still exist?

241044 ▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Eddy, 3, #708 of 1790 🔗

They are trapped, basically in their island, but life goes on as normal for them, cinema’s, shows, shopping etc

241099 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Dan Clarke, 5, #709 of 1790 🔗

New Zealand has long since sailed off into its own little separate universe, the lost realm of Ardern where whatever you want to be true is true.

241000 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 11, #710 of 1790 🔗

Van-Tam to be first in the vaccine queue?

“England’s Deputy Chief Medical Officer has said if he could [but he won’t be, because he’s not in one of the priority groups], he would be at the front of the queue”.

Surely exceptions can be made for Bunter, Wancock, Van-Tam and the Chuckle Brothers? I wouldn’t object.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-54903298

241009 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Tenchy, 3, #711 of 1790 🔗

I’m sure there will be millions who will offer theirs

241230 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Dan Clarke, #712 of 1790 🔗

Jupiter would do.

241011 ▶▶ MizakeTheMizan, replying to Tenchy, 4, #713 of 1790 🔗

If he could? Of course he feckin could! In fact they have a moral duty to be first.

241022 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tenchy, 4, #714 of 1790 🔗

Yes, as they are surely the most significant ‘key workers’ given they are doing God’s work directing the little people!

241034 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Tenchy, 3, #715 of 1790 🔗

They can have mine, I’ll happily go to the back of the queue

241051 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, 2, #716 of 1790 🔗

Me too.

241397 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tenchy, #717 of 1790 🔗

This won’t go down well with the populace if that Daily Mail story is to be believed… Lots of people say they will only have it if the government have it first.

241603 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Tenchy, #718 of 1790 🔗

Let’s hope the useless House of Lords get it first.

241012 Eddy, 1, #719 of 1790 🔗

Watch out for Dr Evil and his needle..

241023 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #720 of 1790 🔗

Has there ever been a person that has tested positive for Coronavirus and not mentioned it to anyone?

241026 ▶▶ John P, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #721 of 1790 🔗

What do you think Tom?

241031 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #722 of 1790 🔗

How would we know?

241025 MizakeTheMizan, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 5, #723 of 1790 🔗

Maybe the vaccine has been in development for many years already. Maybe the vaccine came first and then the disease.

241032 ▶▶ John P, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 1, #724 of 1790 🔗

Or maybe not.

You’d need proof.

241224 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to John P, #725 of 1790 🔗

Or maybe, it was developed quite some time ago and it’s got absolutely nothing to do with protection against a coronavirus infection.

241035 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 1, #726 of 1790 🔗

maybe the vaccine is the disease and they tested it first in wuhan? 😉

241079 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to MizakeTheMizan, #727 of 1790 🔗

Yes – I’ve been wondering if this vaccine hasn’t been much longer in the making than we think we know.

241036 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #728 of 1790 🔗

GP services will be cut back well into 2021 so family doctors can immunise millions of people against coronavirus at new seven-day-a-week clinics, NHS England has said.

Health leaders warned that surgeries will not be able to offer their full range of care for patients from next month as doctors and nurses will be immersed in administering jabs at more than 1,200 mass vaccination centres across England, potentially including sports halls, conference centres and open air venues.

…. Hancock announced on Tuesday that primary care services are to be given £150m to help them hire more GPs and expand the help they give patients affected by the disease, including those suffering from “long Covid”. It is unknown how much on top of that GPs will receive for dispensing Covid jabs.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/10/gps-in-england-will-scale-back-care-to-deliver-covid-vaccines

241039 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Cheezilla, 23, #729 of 1790 🔗

The mind boggles at how so few even supposedly intelligent people can see through this farce.

The rage that is building up inside me is like nothing I have ever before felt. I will not live in the world they are creating I have already accepted that I will die trying to change it.

If I did not have children I would be quite happy to just die and leave all these fools to the fate they clearly want and deserve.

241066 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Saved To Death, 8, #730 of 1790 🔗

I don’t have children, but I have not the slightest intention of dying and leaving the world to these swine.

241074 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Saved To Death, 4, #731 of 1790 🔗

That reminds me of the quotation: ”He that hath wife and children hath given hostages to fortune, for they are impediments to great enterprises…..” But of course, that’s what these people are counting on.

241042 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Cheezilla, 13, #732 of 1790 🔗

How will they scale back something that doesn’t exist?

241096 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Cecil B, 1, #733 of 1790 🔗

Guess even phone appointments will be sacrificed for this.

241123 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to DRW, 1, #734 of 1790 🔗

Wonder if they can deliver the vaxx over the phone.

241179 ▶▶▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to annie, 3, #735 of 1790 🔗

Vaxx by fax?

241208 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to charleyfarley, 2, #736 of 1790 🔗

Well if you really can do everything by bloody Zoom…

242076 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to DRW, #737 of 1790 🔗

Actually I think vaccine by Zoom would be my preferred choice of they were mandatory!

241148 ▶▶▶ davews, replying to Cecil B, #738 of 1790 🔗

They may have to find the key to the front door of my surgery – or maybe like my flu jab they will do it in the car park.

241054 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #739 of 1790 🔗

Hire more GP? Where from?

241062 ▶▶ Jo, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #740 of 1790 🔗

Christ on crutches! Stop it now! The waste!
One very selfish thing I am going to do – I am going to NOT disseminate “misinformation” (truth) about all things vaccine, because I have got to the stage where I want lots of people to have it, so that I might be forgotten. Haven’t seen GP in over a decade and just ignored screening letters etc so I hope it will be a while before they find me.
I am sorry for the people whose livelihoods and lives are being destroyed and will continue as best I can to fight the lockdown. But for sure the vaccine, now paid for and made, will not go away and my No 1 fear is the vaccine (for my own personal historical reasons, and principles). So I am now going to keep quiet and let the others have my share. Fortunately most of my friends will resist having it anyway.

241084 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #741 of 1790 🔗

…. and people still believe that the NHS provide world class care when most of the population can’t get the treatment they need.

241147 ▶▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to Victoria, 2, #742 of 1790 🔗

I don’t and never have. In fact I get treated overseas where possible at least they get the diagnosis right.

241090 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Cheezilla, #743 of 1790 🔗

My university is already one those centres. Half the campus is a well advertised, fully NHS-signaged site, currently for testing. The execs must be getting a massive commission for their full collaboration. No prizes for guessing what it will be next, or given a recent announcement, who is being softened up for being the first in line…

241142 ▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to DRW, #744 of 1790 🔗

Do you mind my asking which university?

241270 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Alethea, #745 of 1790 🔗

It’s a minor one in the South West, uncomfortable saying which.

241159 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #746 of 1790 🔗

I thought the gov were authorising non-medical staff to administer this? That was part of the consultation. Why take GPs and practise nurses off-stream? Not that they’re particularly on-stream of course.

241393 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #747 of 1790 🔗

Do the GPs know this?

How many people will this kill due to lack of medical care?

Where are they magically hiring these additional GPs from? Were they just sitting around waiting for someone to offer them a job?

241043 Banjones, 12, #748 of 1790 🔗

It’s good to hear that Mark Harper et al are trying to make a difference. I hope they do. But reading his DT piece suggests that they’re STILL in thrall to this ridiculous ”Test and Trace” garbage.
If we all began living ”normally” – with the Terminally Terrified living as ”abnormally” as they wish – and stopped this mass testing, just treating sick people (and testing them as part of diagnoses if they must) then this virus would magically disappear from normal life.
Just in time for the Potentially Poisonous Potion to magically appear.

241050 chaos, replying to chaos, 8, #749 of 1790 🔗

I’m really struggling today.. Boris’ government and his WEF? plans have wrecked my life. I’m laying doiwn trying not to stress.

It just occured to me that the government could spend millions or billions on the vaccines and they then just sit around going to waste due to low uptake. But the vaccine makers bellies will be full regardless… I think it would be a step too far for them to make vaccines mandatory.. what you think?

241057 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to chaos, 7, #750 of 1790 🔗

The step too far was taken in march.

241061 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to chaos, 3, #751 of 1790 🔗

when this is all over we can just windfall tax the whole of pharma.

241070 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to steve_w, #752 of 1790 🔗

I agree, they’ve staked the countries finances on making it look so bad, that their developed vaccine will be taken all over the world.

241073 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to steve_w, #753 of 1790 🔗

I would see a windfall tax as becoming a party to the crime. The damages that will need to be paid will leave them bankrupt anyway. Hopefully those purchasing the assets can then put them to a good use.

241072 ▶▶ Jo, replying to chaos, 9, #754 of 1790 🔗

I can’t think rationally about the vaccine because it is my worst fear. My partner has said he will “hide” me if they mandate it, but I’m 59 and I can’t live like that. I suspect you and I have similar feelings on this one. The idea that someone who has nothing to do with you could FORCE you to have it – even if it means four of them holding you down – fills me with such dread that I really, really would rather die first.

241121 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Jo, 6, #755 of 1790 🔗

This may be one situation in which the Governments catastrophic ineptitude plays to our advantage. Do we really believe they are capable of delivering a national vaccination programme in quick order? Unlike many people here I don’t know anyone who won’t be queuing up for it, so I reckon it could take years before they need to pile on any pressure for those of us who won’t volunteer – by which time the sense of urgency will surely have been forgotten. Don’t abandon hope!

241134 ▶▶▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to Charlie Blue, 5, #756 of 1790 🔗

That’s right. The UK government’s reputation for sheer incompetence is definitely on our side.

241161 ▶▶▶▶ Jo, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #757 of 1790 🔗

Thank you. That’s what I like to hope for.

241128 ▶▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to Jo, 4, #758 of 1790 🔗

They won’t ever do that. It will be about restrictions for a while…until they all get arrested and tossed into prison

241177 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Jo, 2, #759 of 1790 🔗

They won’t force it on you. It’ll just so happen that you’ll need the ID for everything.

241086 ▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to chaos, 4, #760 of 1790 🔗

They’ve already spent eye-watering sums on vaccines – hence Pfizer having 40million jabs stockpiled and ready just for us.
Pfizer is just one of the candidates. They’ve doubtless poured millions into other companies as well to secure supplies if and when available.
So the government feel they have to push the vaccine like mad, and they have to pressurise regulatory bodies and the scientific community in order to justify their largesse to the pharmaceutical industry, to save their own political skins and to feel good about themselves as saviours of the nation.

(I’ve long said that the main problem with politicians as a caste is that they have messianic tendencies and have always to be saving us from something.)

241094 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to TheOriginalBlackPudding, 1, #761 of 1790 🔗

Will we get to know which high profile figures have shares in any of the big pharma companies that are involved?
No conflict of interest, surely!

241391 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Banjones, #762 of 1790 🔗

Well – you can start with the three top advisors.

241150 ▶▶▶ right2question, replying to TheOriginalBlackPudding, #763 of 1790 🔗

who is it that wrote about if government wants to save you run in the opposite direction very quickly runway for landing of authoritarian shit

241091 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to chaos, #764 of 1790 🔗

Read the government’s patronising reply at 10,000 signatures in the petition:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/323442
(which has been growing suspiciously slowly) and see what you make of their weasel words.

241101 ▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to chaos, 6, #765 of 1790 🔗

I just maintain the belief that they will be found out and the whole thing will just collapse like a house of cards. Boom.

241109 ▶▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to Sceptic Hank, 3, #766 of 1790 🔗

That is the hope that springs eternal.

241114 ▶▶▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to TheOriginalBlackPudding, 3, #767 of 1790 🔗

More than hope. A strong belief.

241139 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Sceptic Hank, 3, #768 of 1790 🔗

My concern is their control of the media. Being found out doesn’t mean it’ll be publicised.

241176 ▶▶▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to leggy, 7, #769 of 1790 🔗

More and more people are waking up to this agenda and looking at alternative media. I haven’t watched Sky or the BBC for months, and many of my friends haven’t either. It’s all about podcasts, utube, bitchute and alternative media that tell the truth now.

241205 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Sceptic Hank, 1, #770 of 1790 🔗

I want to believe that too- but it seems to good to be true, I’ve had enough disappointments this year.

241052 chaos, replying to chaos, 5, #771 of 1790 🔗

Anyone watching Boris at PMQ.. I caught a bit.. Boris evades questions.. he is in a mess. He is not what he was.

241058 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to chaos, 26, #772 of 1790 🔗

he was a twat before, now he’s a mass murdering twat

241089 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to steve_w, 3, #773 of 1790 🔗

A good point, well made.

241064 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to chaos, 1, #774 of 1790 🔗

Thoroughly coerced.

241065 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to chaos, 13, #775 of 1790 🔗

I think Boris was never who we thought he was. I think he is the British Hunter Biden, being blackmailed into transforming the UK into a Communist China lookalike.

241399 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Londo Mollari, #776 of 1790 🔗

Come back Eddie Maier (?). Remember that crushing of Johnson? :

“You’re a nasty piece of work, aren’t you?” – after he’d squirmed under questioning about his lying deceitfulness and lack of integrity.

241075 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to chaos, 5, #777 of 1790 🔗

He blundered and blustered ineffectively when he was guest chairman of Have I Got News For You. People laughed because they thought he was putting it on. He wasn’t

241100 ▶▶▶ Jo, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, #778 of 1790 🔗

I don’t know…. I remember hearing a prog about him (sorry it’s BBC, albeit WS)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3csytg7

The first bit of it was really quite interesting…

241087 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to chaos, 8, #779 of 1790 🔗

As I mentioned the other day he increasingly resembles Father Jack (image attached) from the Father Ted programmes. He seems completely bamboozled by his 2 mad scientists and the awful double glazing salesman who seems to have become our Health minister.

241106 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #780 of 1790 🔗

”Double glazing salesman”? Surely he’s not THAT capable.

(He’s got a PPE, you know, which Boris probably thinks stands for ”personal protective equipment” and therefore thought he was qualified for the position of Health Secretary.)

241136 ▶▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #781 of 1790 🔗

Surely there’s a clever so and so amongst us who can superimpose father jack’s head onto Boris at one of his briefings?

241097 ▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to chaos, 3, #782 of 1790 🔗

Didn’t they say some people’s IQs lower after Covid?

241135 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Sceptic Hank, 2, #783 of 1790 🔗

What?, below zero?

241174 ▶▶ kf99, replying to chaos, 3, #784 of 1790 🔗

There is a certain way of talking calmly without stumbling over your words which makes people think “good politician, great communicator”. Regardless of any actual competence. See Blair, Obama, Cameron, Sturgeon. May tried to do it without success. Bojo doesn’t even try.

241378 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to chaos, #785 of 1790 🔗

Perhaps this is the real Boris!

241395 ▶▶ RickH, replying to chaos, 1, #786 of 1790 🔗

He’s precisely what he’s always been – a heap of egocentric bullshit. It’s just that the varnish has worn off.

241053 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 24, #787 of 1790 🔗

One thing that shouldn’t have surprised but did was Sarah Montague on R4 punching the air in delight at the announcement of early stage results from a novel vaccine. Are these people so thick? Where is the sense of proportion? It’s like they actually think we are besieged by dragons and saint george has just told someone to hold his beer. It will take years to prove it isn’t worse than covid for 90% of people and the other 10% are too frail to be vaccinated. I mean – what is the bloody point?

241067 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to steve_w, 1, #788 of 1790 🔗

I thought they said it was 19th on the death list?

241068 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to steve_w, 4, #789 of 1790 🔗

“It’s like they actually think we are besieged by dragons and saint george has just told someone to hold his beer.” LOL. I love that observation. Pithy comment of the week (and there’s stiff competition on here).

241085 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Londo Mollari, 2, #790 of 1790 🔗

🙂 you didn’t love it enough to uptick me! 🙁

241178 ▶▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to steve_w, #791 of 1790 🔗

I did.

241187 ▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Londo Mollari, #792 of 1790 🔗

ooh – they’ve all come through! lovely bit of gamification – thanks!

241212 ▶▶▶ steph, replying to Londo Mollari, #793 of 1790 🔗

Hear hear

241071 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to steve_w, #794 of 1790 🔗

Stand with the English dragon against that Norman saint

241119 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 2, #795 of 1790 🔗

Wouldn’t the dragon have been Welsh? A few of them could do with slaying!

Which reminds me of the old joke asking about the difference between Prince Charles and a fairy-tale prince!
[The fairy tale prince slayed the dragon and married the princess.]

241127 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to IanE, 2, #796 of 1790 🔗

The Red dragon is Welsh and the White one is English.

241184 ▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #797 of 1790 🔗

Ah, I stand (or sit actually) more informed!

242106 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, #798 of 1790 🔗

I thought St George was Turkish ? 🙂

241080 ▶▶ George L, replying to steve_w, 1, #799 of 1790 🔗

I rather think that before people start punching the air they should take a look at the webpage linked below. Especially the dates involved and the urgent messaging..

https://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED%3ANOTICE%3A506291-2020%3ATEXT%3AEN%3AHTML&src=0&fbclid=IwAR1uYFVlq4BpcPj6vwfYkhVFIxl8mcIvyWqqh1XGS2HdvJiVp0pABIh7AQk

241284 ▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to George L, #800 of 1790 🔗

Good find

241210 ▶▶ steph, replying to steve_w, #801 of 1790 🔗

Oh I just love that St George reference. Thanks 😂

241055 Londo Mollari, replying to Londo Mollari, 1, #802 of 1790 🔗

I have laboured too grasp the PCR details. How does this new test being used by the Army differ?

241092 ▶▶ DocRC, replying to Londo Mollari, 4, #803 of 1790 🔗

it tests for some of the protein in the virus. It may actually be better than the PCR test as it probably needs a lot of virus to be in the sample to come up positive- in other words not a few bits of dead virus which is picked up by the PCR “test” at high Ct (40 cycles + as used in community PCR tests).

241124 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to Londo Mollari, #804 of 1790 🔗

Apropos of the Army being used to inflict all this upon us (not their fault, of course) our dopey MP asked the question in the Commons:
”…. this increased visibility domestically from our armed forces, is it
helping with the important task of recruitment into our armed forces?”

Would any ex-serviceman or woman like to comment?

241056 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 10, #805 of 1790 🔗

Its got to be worth a shed load of cash to those involved. Covid is 19th on the hit list of deaths with, and looking back at the winter deaths and yearly death average of 600,000 in the UK, they’ve never particularly bothered before.

241083 ▶▶ Jo, replying to Dan Clarke, 6, #806 of 1790 🔗

I think they have, but not on this scale. Given the appalling “success” rate of the flu vaccine, I have always been bemused to hear the advice rolled out about how important it is to have it. A couple of years ago there was a queue outside the local GP’s! One recent year its effectiveness was recorded as 5%. They do make a fair bit from these not very efficient vaccines.

241112 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Jo, 1, #807 of 1790 🔗

So someone with clout can push their production and raise the share price.

241059 NorthumbrianNomad, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 11, #808 of 1790 🔗

Unfortunately the national broadcasters still determine what makes the news. The US election is over, lockdown doesn’t matter any more because of the vaccine, and so on. This is why no government of any stripe is ever going to defund the BBC. I’m losing what little faith I had in the peaceful democratic process

Hello, Sarah from GCHQ. Do you think I mean it?

241082 ▶▶ Julian, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 8, #809 of 1790 🔗

Yes. This is why the sceptic side needs a massive publicity campaign to counteract what has been done. The BBC will never fall to scepticism.

241088 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 1, #810 of 1790 🔗

and no foreign interference this time either

241076 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 4, #811 of 1790 🔗

General Melchett grants Captain Darlings wish to join the front of the queue for the vaccine

https://youtu.be/NgyB6lwE8E0

241146 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Cecil B, 4, #812 of 1790 🔗

Those poor buggers were just as brainwashed in 1914 – to hate Germans, as most people here were in March – fear the virus.

It’ll be over by Christmas

Three weeks to flatten the curve.

241196 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to calchas, 2, #813 of 1790 🔗

They’ve played that card again now it’s Four weeks to Save Christmas.

241311 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to calchas, #814 of 1790 🔗

”Brainwashed to hate Germans”. I think you may need to do a bit of historical research!

241102 Swannypol, replying to Swannypol, 3, #815 of 1790 🔗

It does seem that the vaccine is about 50% more effective than vitamin d sufficiency. Remind me again why we aren’t all currently taking vit d at a cost of a few pence a day?

241195 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Swannypol, 2, #816 of 1790 🔗

I’m taking extra vitamins including Vit D every day. There is no chance I’ll be having their vaccine.

241316 ▶▶ Staincliffe, replying to Swannypol, 1, #817 of 1790 🔗

On a similar theme, as there is a real, but under-reported, faecal transmission route, why aren’t we being reminded to close the toilet lid before flushing?

241107 Silke David, replying to Silke David, 4, #818 of 1790 🔗

Partly paying attention to an interview with Tim Spector on UnHerd about his Zoe(?) APP, which is a covid app. Participants upload their well being every day and can choose out 25! symptoms to decide “if they may or not may have covid”.
And apparently this is partly gov funded.
I basically stopped listening after this as the app seems as useless and ridiculous as everything else.

241130 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Silke David, 9, #819 of 1790 🔗

I think what he does is probably the best of what’s out there. He correlates those symptoms with actual test ‘results’ to try and estimate the number of people infectious every day. He also rubbished the 4000 a day and doubling every week crap. I think it probably did peak 1 well (and broadly proves herd immunity is not far off) – but did poorly in the summer. His app shows peak was passed on 1st Nov before lockdown 2. So clearly not fiddling data to fit in with govt or SAGE

241172 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Silke David, 8, #820 of 1790 🔗

Blimey, almost as many Covid symptoms as genders.

241343 ▶▶ Will, replying to Silke David, #821 of 1790 🔗

It probably is bollocks but millions contribute to it, trust it and, crucially it is showing cases dropping!!!

241110 MutzNutz, replying to MutzNutz, 3, #823 of 1790 🔗

Does anybody here wear a mask? Come on, don’t be shy 😉

241113 ▶▶ Eddy, replying to MutzNutz, 12, #824 of 1790 🔗

Only when dogging.

241198 ▶▶▶ MutzNutz, replying to Eddy, -1, #825 of 1790 🔗

LOL

241310 ▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Eddy, #826 of 1790 🔗

Better be safe than sorry!

241324 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Eddy, #827 of 1790 🔗

lol
and
No fuckin way. Total idiocy AND ALSO very sinister. . Mask wearing has to stop NOW.

241116 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to MutzNutz, 3, #828 of 1790 🔗

Yes,I do in shops, but if I was told to wear em “out and about”, NO, I WOULD NOT!!!

241266 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #829 of 1790 🔗

I’ve never been told to wear one in a shop.

I generally presume that those who do wear them in shops agree with it.

I carry a card in case I am challenged. I have never yet been challenged.

241129 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to MutzNutz, 6, #830 of 1790 🔗

Never have, not even once. Got a lanyard, if things get tricky, which they haven’t so far.

241140 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to MutzNutz, 5, #831 of 1790 🔗

Yes, if I have to at work – but even then that’s fairly rare. I also wore one when I went for an oupatient’s appointment a couple of months back because I was so stressed anyway after waiting more than 6 months for cancer investigation that I couldn’t find the courage to face up to any challenge.

241186 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Charlie Blue, 8, #832 of 1790 🔗

Don’t apologise I wore a scarf when I went to the eye clinic, as I had been waiting for 9 months for an appointment I was not going to create a fuss. My operation, fingers crossed, will take place on 25th November and I am expected to cover my face again. This I will do as I’m desperate to have this operation. Other than that I will not be wearing a face covering.

241273 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #833 of 1790 🔗

That sounds like a “reasonable excuse” for wearing a face covering.

It’s not the same as wearing a mask though.

241144 ▶▶ Andrea Allardyce, replying to MutzNutz, 5, #834 of 1790 🔗

I don’t and I hold my head up high and smile at people.

241163 ▶▶ Mike, replying to MutzNutz, 4, #835 of 1790 🔗

Unfortunately it’s now become mandated at work. Options for bypassing the farce are limited, however I have been pushing back quite hard at the reasoning for there use, efficacy and risk assessments. We have a situation where those sat in the office dictate what those out on the shop floor should do based on what happens in the office. It is madness. What works in one place does not necessarily work everywhere.

Anyway, I’m building the case for them to hang themselves with their own rules and regulations. An example being currently that masks should be worn at all times in the office unless eating, OR unless you are working in a single occupancy office space. Surprise surprise only the big wigs work in single occupancy offices.

242098 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mike, #836 of 1790 🔗

Mandatory hand-washing and replacement whenever a mask is touched ?

241165 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to MutzNutz, 4, #837 of 1790 🔗

I have never worn one. I have asthma and the lanyard.

241166 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to MutzNutz, 2, #838 of 1790 🔗

When getting my monthly prescription from the chemist but not at other times.

241175 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to MutzNutz, 3, #839 of 1790 🔗

No we don’t.

241207 ▶▶▶ MutzNutz, replying to Bella Donna, -6, #840 of 1790 🔗

You seem very certain about other peoples behaviour using ‘WE’
How presumptuous & arrogant

241264 ▶▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to MutzNutz, 3, #841 of 1790 🔗

How do you know how many people are included in one user name? It could be a family group, taking it in turns to comment.
Arrogant and presumptuous?

241386 ▶▶▶▶▶ MutzNutz, replying to Banjones, #842 of 1790 🔗

Fair do’s
BUT it seems that more people here wear masks than I thought

241277 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to MutzNutz, 3, #843 of 1790 🔗

May be referring to herself and her spouse.

241223 ▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to MutzNutz, 4, #844 of 1790 🔗

No, I can’t breathe in one. Held a very thin silk scarf over my face a couple of times to get a lift to church and hated doing that. Tried a chiffon yashmak and felt I’d suffocate. I don’t own a mask and have no intention of so doing.

241261 ▶▶ John P, replying to MutzNutz, 2, #845 of 1790 🔗

NEVER

241299 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to MutzNutz, #846 of 1790 🔗

And how many have signed the petition?
Toby always gives the link, but here it is:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/331430

241307 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to MutzNutz, 2, #847 of 1790 🔗

I sometimes wear a mask..But not when in a shop or public transport wink, wink 🙂

241349 ▶▶ Will, replying to MutzNutz, #848 of 1790 🔗

I have no choice, for PR reasons, given where we live and what we do. I wear a beyond useless, thin snood type thing so I can breathe properly because when I wear a “proper” face mask in the hospital I get light headed. It keeps the local busybodies off my back.

241381 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to MutzNutz, #849 of 1790 🔗

In medical settings so as not to frighten anyone who may be genuinely unwell and vulnerable. Not in shops or anywhere else.

241118 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 8, #850 of 1790 🔗

Dystopian “Great Reset”: “Own Nothing and Be Happy”, Being Human in 2030

The Great Reset entails a transformation of society resulting in permanent restrictions on fundamental liberties and mass surveillance as entire sectors are sacrificed to boost the monopoly and hegemony of pharmaceuticals corporations, high-tech/big data giants, Amazon, Google, major global chains, the digital payments sector, biotech concerns, etc.

Using COVID-19 lockdowns and restrictions to push through this transformation, the great reset is being rolled out under the guise of a ‘Fourth Industrial Revolution’ in which older enterprises are to be driven to bankruptcy or absorbed into monopolies, effectively shutting down huge sections of the pre-COVID economy. Economies are being ‘restructured’ and many jobs will be carried out by AI-driven machines.

Cut through the euphemisms and it is clear that Bill Gates – and the other incredibly rich individuals behind the great reset – is an old-fashioned colonialist who supports the time-honoured dispossessive strategies of imperialism, whether this involves mining, appropriating and commodifying farmer knowledge, accelerating the transfer of research and seeds to corporations or facilitating intellectual property piracy and seed monopolies created through IP laws and seed regulations.

https://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/dystopian-great-reset-own-nothing-and-be-happy-being-human-2030

241122 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Victoria, 7, #851 of 1790 🔗

Just because some rich men would like it, doesn’t mean it will happen

241157 ▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #852 of 1790 🔗

There doesn’t seem to be much push back from anywhere though.

241173 ▶▶▶ right2question, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #853 of 1790 🔗

totally this is what i am learning to keep coming back to empowerment

241131 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Victoria, 2, #854 of 1790 🔗

Yep, short version. A caller (in tears) mentioned it on Talk Radio this morning. Mike Graham’s answer was something along the lines of “Yes, it’s terrible what this Government are doing, causing people to grasp at straws of untruth”. Right.

241155 ▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to leggy, 4, #855 of 1790 🔗

Wonder if Mike Graham quite realizes that “journalist” will largely not be required in this brave new utopia?

241359 ▶▶▶ Wallykazzoo, replying to leggy, #856 of 1790 🔗

Yep , a case of nothing to see here , move along
Surely Mr Graham will be aware of “not so great reset” sky news Australia have covered it recently.
And would be willing to at least entertain this as at least a possibility,
“Build back better everyone”

241138 ▶▶ Andrea Allardyce, replying to Victoria, 2, #857 of 1790 🔗

It’s interesting how they are talking about banning all advertising including texts of foods high in sugar and fat so even local farms selling jam or people selling cakes won’t have access to their market. Is this the beginning of them controlling what we eat I wonder?

241247 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Victoria, 4, #858 of 1790 🔗

We’ve never wanted to own stuff – always knew that stuff doesn’t make you happy We want to do stuff – that does make you happy – but we can’t do that either

241120 c s, replying to c s, 2, #859 of 1790 🔗

Is there any data to tell us how many “positive” tests they have been finding in Liverpool as a percentage of tests carried out? Also, are these tests all the new lateral flow tests rather than PCR? Would be interesting to compare with the figures seen in Pfizer trial (i.e. 0.4% of patients in placebo arm have had symptoms in the last 5 months)? Am I right in thinking the lateral flow test is less likely to report false positives as they are less sensitive to tiny fragments of viral RNA?

241164 ▶▶ leggy, replying to c s, #860 of 1790 🔗

0.7% was the figure given for Liverpool I believe.

241167 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to leggy, #861 of 1790 🔗

See post above ^

241126 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 7, #862 of 1790 🔗

Astonishingly, this new test has only found 162 positives after testing 23,170 people, which is only 0.7%. These are almost certainly all false positives. Tests rarely ever manage a false positive rate lower than this.

The Vuelta race organisers had approximately fourteen hundred tests conducted on the two rest days. Every single test was negative. How did the race organisers manage to solve the false positive problem?

241151 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Steve Hayes, 5, #863 of 1790 🔗

Lower cycle (no pun intended)

241220 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to stefarm, 1, #864 of 1790 🔗

How low would they have to go to eliminate false positives?

241149 John P, replying to John P, 18, #865 of 1790 🔗

Professor Mills and her chums at SAGE think we’re a bunch of knuckle-dragging troglodytes who are incapable of being persuaded to take our medicine by reason and evidence.

Quite. These unaccountable, unelected wretches need flinging out on their arses.

241156 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to John P, 3, #866 of 1790 🔗

well, lets see the evidence then. 5 years of longitudinal data would be a start

241235 ▶▶ Sylvie, replying to John P, 1, #867 of 1790 🔗

25% of UK deaths ‘with’ covid also had dementia. How are medics going to get informed consent? Or do care homes insist on relatives or staff (?) getting Health Powers of Attorney – which as I understand it, cannot be done where the person has already lost mental capacity?

241158 Jonny S., 17, #868 of 1790 🔗

This morning bit the bullet and sent the below email to all 39 MP’s who voted against the lockdown, usung the list of contacts supplied yesterday. Although no MP is obligate to reply unless you are a constituent of theirs I did get some personal replies with Philip Hollobone sending me this link.

https://www.cityam.com/rebel-tory-mps-launch-anti-lockdown-campaign-group/

In my opinion well worth the effort.

Dear MP
I am contacting you as an owner of a small business in the Calder Valley constituency in Yorkshire who is struggling to get through this difficult year without making redundancies.
I have a brother in London who has just made 37 of his 45 employees redundant, another brother in Bournemouth who has struggled to to run his small family business and very nearly went bust, another brother who has been on furlough since March and with an 81 year old father who said to me ” I haven’t got long left and they’ve stolen a year of my life”.

I would just like to say thankyou for voting against the second national lockdown.

People like us simply cannot continue with the situation as it is for much longer and I hope more MPs start to take your brave stance.

Regards,
Jonny.

241160 Adamb, replying to Adamb, 4, #869 of 1790 🔗

Mask hell for the foreseeable in the US:

Cloth face masks help shield the wearer from coronavirus infection and are not just to protect surrounding people, according to new guidance given by American health officials.

The guidelines from the US Centres for Disease Control (CDC) go well beyond earlier declarations that masks should be worn in consideration of others, and say they benefit the user as well.

241181 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Adamb, 4, #870 of 1790 🔗

It’ll be mandated if Biden finally gets in. Have you the seen the website he published? Note the URL: https://buildbackbetter.com/priorities/covid-19/

Implement mask mandates nationwide by working with governors and mayors and by asking the American people to do what they do best: step up in a time of crisis.

Experts agree that tens of thousands of lives can be saved if Americans wear masks. President-elect Biden will continue to call on:

Every American to wear a mask when they are around people outside their household.

Every Governor to make that mandatory in their state.

Local authorities to also make it mandatory to buttress their state orders.

If Klaus gets his way, we’ll probably all be wearing these:

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/10/engineers-face-mask-inactivate-coronavirus-covid19

241193 ▶▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to leggy, 1, #871 of 1790 🔗

I’m assuming people can just self exempt themselves though like in England?

241231 ▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Anothersceptic2, #872 of 1790 🔗

You know what they say about assumptions!

241215 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to leggy, 6, #873 of 1790 🔗

Yet in the US states that introduced mask mandates “cases” increased. If the wearing of face masks prevented transmission of the virus, the opposite would have happened. These people are apparently dataphobes.

241229 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to leggy, 1, #874 of 1790 🔗

If think they would prefer this

Its the only way to prevent dangerous antivaxer propaganda offline!

241238 ▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Saved To Death, 2, #875 of 1790 🔗

Presumably mandatory wearing of mittens too.

241318 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to leggy, #876 of 1790 🔗

That will be down to “Mittens” Romney. Yes THAT’S why they call him Mit, its short for mittens.

Yes some people KNEW corona bolocks was coming long before the rest of us did.
FACT!
😉

241289 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to leggy, #877 of 1790 🔗

If Biden can get every governor to do his bidding why couldn’t Trump ?

241168 godowneasy, replying to godowneasy, 8, #878 of 1790 🔗

Ministry of Truth – Delhi experiencing ‘third wave’ of Covid

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-54899679

Perhaps I’m seeing shadows everywhere these days, but the guy on right looks like he’s been photoshopped!

241189 ▶▶ DRW, replying to godowneasy, 2, #879 of 1790 🔗

Subtly getting the “third wave” hints out there, just as they did with “second wave” over the summer.

241169 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 8, #880 of 1790 🔗

they are struggling to find anyone with it in liverpool

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases?areaType=ltla&areaName=Liverpool

241182 ▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to steve_w, 4, #881 of 1790 🔗

yet they’re still going to waste billions trying it elsewhere? Where I live they are logging 0 deaths most days so clearly we should be open as usual.

241191 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Anothersceptic2, 3, #882 of 1790 🔗

lockdown 1 was daft – lockdown 2 takes it to another level.

241206 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to steve_w, 2, #883 of 1790 🔗

Yes but the answer will be lockdown and muzzles working absent the vaccine.

241262 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to steve_w, #884 of 1790 🔗

Bozo will find it difficult to put Liverpool back into tier 3 on 2nd December when his own actions have shown Covid is not a problem there.

241375 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to karenovirus, #885 of 1790 🔗

True – we should all be clamouring for rapid testing in our towns and cities (the zealots can do it obviously, not us) so that the govt are left with zero evidence of a pandemic by the time lockdown ends.

241170 VickyA, replying to VickyA, 21, #886 of 1790 🔗

When I was diagnosed with a chronic illness a few decades ago, it started me on a path of investigation as I wanted to understand what I and others could do about it. I found out that the NHS was useless (for me) in helping my condition, drugs prescribed had side effects so I was better off without them, and that most health care was about suppressing symptoms rather than solving the root cause of the problem. I also found out a multitude of things about how the world really works…but I digress.

Notwithstanding that, my point is how many will be having a similar experience now?How many are like us in questioning this narrative? Is there some glimmer of hope that more than a few will have started to question existing beliefs and what they are told, and that we will grow in number. Is this a Government own goal or am I just amongst fellow questioning types?

Just looking for something positive!

241201 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to VickyA, 6, #887 of 1790 🔗

I am yearning for something positive too and I really have no sense of the answer to your question. I see our friends here posting that none of their acquaintances would touch the vaccine with a barge pole, which gives me hope, yet no one I know socially, through wok, among my neighbours or in my family (other than my mum) question anything. They are either fully bought in, or are just so tired of it all and avoidant of the subject that I think they would happily set fire to themselves if they were told to.

241245 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Charlie Blue, 2, #888 of 1790 🔗

It may be that many people feel socially compelled to appear worried and concerned about the Covid and don’t want to express concern about the vaccine because they think themselves guilty of wrongthink.

Nobody has brought it up with me during many conversations over the past 24 hours. When I make it crop up by asking their opinion I end by mumbling something about it not being tested much.

241203 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to VickyA, 4, #889 of 1790 🔗

I searched Pub Med looking for the cause of gout. I found lots of research papers, but, all but one, was about addressing the symptoms. The one paper that was about the cause of gout was a study of gout in chickens. The explanation for this was that the research in gout in humans was driven by the desire of the pharmaceutical industry to sell products over and over; so they are interested in symptom relief therapies. Whereas, the funding of the research into the cause of gout in chickens was funded by agribusiness, and chickens are a multi-billion dollar industry, and they were not interested in providing their chickens with symptom relief; they wanted to know what caused the disease so they could eradicate it from their chickens.

241213 ▶▶▶ Jo, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #890 of 1790 🔗

Did they conclude anything?

241244 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Jo, 3, #891 of 1790 🔗

Yes, they found that the disease was a result of damage caused to the kidney by a prior viral infection, making the kidney less effective at regulating the amount of uric acid in the blood stream. They identified three viruses as capable of causing the disease (I cannot recall their names at the moment); two of them were avian and the other is found in both birds and humans.

241249 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #892 of 1790 🔗

Gout is a build up of uric acid levels. The following might provide some relief (not a magic bullet):
1) Proper hydration with water dilute the uric acid – keep in mind most people are dehydrated
2) vitamin C helps reduce uric acid levels
3) eliminate fructose sugar found in processed foods, smoothies etc. Look for high fructose corn syrup (also called corn syrup and other names) that is used instead of sugar (find it in cheaper products and in America in most processed products). Eating fresh fruit is ok as the fiber helps to damp the fructose effect in your body

241276 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Victoria, -1, #893 of 1790 🔗

Why are you telling me this?

241313 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Steve Hayes, #894 of 1790 🔗

It’s interesting.

241331 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Two-Six, -1, #895 of 1790 🔗

What is interesting?

241453 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #896 of 1790 🔗

If you would like to see an example of how the profit motive in Health Care directly impacts pathways, watch the Widowmaker documentary. It shows simply how surgery for heart problems, specifically stents, was preferred over low cost and less intrusive treatments.

https://youtu.be/NSPcuGjstN4

As always, there are a number of key gatekeepers, in this case specific hospitals, which provide the golden ticket for particular pathways to be seen as the standard. Capture these small cabal and you’ll own an industry.

The intention is to keep you sick enough.

How anyone can’t look at any number of investigations into these companises and still feel fully ready to present the arm of their children for a vaccine rolled out at warp speed. For all of the chat about erring on the side of caution throughout all of this crisis and now that just goes out the window.

Zombies

241209 ▶▶ kenadams, replying to VickyA, 11, #897 of 1790 🔗

It’s already made me question vaccines and global warming more than I ever did before.

I’m not anti-vax, but I can see now that it is a much more nuanced discussion. For example, why do young children have a rotavirus vax, when it isn’t that serious a disease in the first place, and the vax is quite likely to have side effects. Whereas the ‘6 in 1’ jab to cover all sorts of hugely lethal diseases probably does make a lot of sense.

And global warming – it certainly seems like global temperatures are going up and anecdotally it feels like our weather is becoming more unpredictable. But, there are several important points that all go to the heart of why the zero carbon globalist initiative is so horrible:

  1. What proportion of the warming is due to humans and CO2?;
  2. Even if a lot of it is, why can’t we adapt rather than all be forced to ruin our standards of living by being ‘zero carbon’? Or, a healthy mixture of the two?;
  3. Even if we were to trust the IPCC report, it doesn’t say we need zero carbon, but reduced carbon. And there is a huge huge difference between zero carbon and managed/reduced carbon. Basically, what we are currently trying to do with Covid vs Sweden;
  4. The people implementing the zero carbon world are massive hypocrites who themselves admit obscene amounts of carbon from their wealthy lifestyles. I really do despise them.
241322 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to kenadams, #898 of 1790 🔗

The green movement is just a big con.Governments love it because it provided cover for extortionate rates of taxation and once they have their carbon credits scheme the perfect vehicle for totalitarianism.
Covid is being used to bring this about much faster.

241373 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to kenadams, #899 of 1790 🔗

That sums up my position on climate change exactly, thanks!

241171 NickR, replying to NickR, 17, #900 of 1790 🔗

If you’re under 65 the chances of dying from Covid 19 is about 1 in 10,000, & nearly all of those fatalities were of people with comorbidities.
Just how sensible is it if you’re under 65 to submit to an under-tested vaccine?
What are the odds of an adverse impact of the vaccine, greater or less than 1 in 10,000?

241194 ▶▶ calchas, replying to NickR, 6, #901 of 1790 🔗

Yes.

If you are under 65 with no health issues, then the risk was basically zero, during the time the epidemic was on.

Now that the epidemic is over – hat tip Dr. Mike Yeason – the risk nust be zero for everybody.

If you strip out seasonal effects, then I need to be persuaded that anybody is dying of covid in the UK.

241222 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to calchas, 7, #902 of 1790 🔗

I just did the maths for people under 60.
Fewer 2,700 people under 60 had covid on their death certificates.
There are about 43m people under 60 in the UK
That means the odds of anyone under, regardless of what comorbidities, regardless of how obese you are, then you’ve had a less than a 1 in 100,000 chance of dying. What odds of a problem from the the vaccine? We have no idea!

241242 ▶▶▶▶ NickR, replying to NickR, #903 of 1790 🔗

Oooop, 6 in a 100,000

241342 ▶▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to NickR, #904 of 1790 🔗

I think swine flu was 78/100000 got narcolepsy

241346 ▶▶▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to JHuntz, #905 of 1790 🔗

Of course this is misinformation soon to be punishable by death by the ministry of truth (AKA Sage/ AKA Royal Society).

241180 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 1, #906 of 1790 🔗

New Type of Test May Better Discern Immunity to the Coronavirus
 The test detects the response of T cells to the virus — an arm of the immune system that may be just as important as antibodies to preventing reinfection.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/health/t-cell-test-coronavirus-immunity.html

241190 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Sarigan, 1, #907 of 1790 🔗

“Just as important”?!

These people have no basic understanding of immunology do they.

241199 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Sarigan, 3, #908 of 1790 🔗

Are T cells flavour of the month now??

241371 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to stefarm, #909 of 1790 🔗

They are since the miracle vaccine was shown to stimulate them, yes.

241192 ▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to Zak Thelotofem, 3, #911 of 1790 🔗

you’ll never get an answer as they don’t know.

241204 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 3, #912 of 1790 🔗

5G = Smart Cities. Smart Cities = Gates, not gated, communities.

241227 ▶▶ IanE, replying to richard riewer, 5, #913 of 1790 🔗

And for anyone who thinks Gates will protect her/him/them/it/etc I can do a very fine line in used bridges!

241217 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 16, #914 of 1790 🔗

The Danish RCT study still eludes us but there was an RCT in 2015 studying cloth masks in health settings:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25903751/

Results: The rates of all infection outcomes were highest in the cloth mask arm, with the rate of ILI statistically significantly higher in the cloth mask arm (relative risk (RR)=13.00, 95% CI 1.69 to 100.07) compared with the medical mask arm. Cloth masks also had significantly higher rates of ILI compared with the control arm. An analysis by mask use showed ILI (RR=6.64, 95% CI 1.45 to 28.65) and laboratory-confirmed virus (RR=1.72, 95% CI 1.01 to 2.94) were significantly higher in the cloth masks group compared with the medical masks group. Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%.

Conclusions: This study is the first RCT of cloth masks, and the results caution against the use of cloth masks. This is an important finding to inform occupational health and safety. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection. Further research is needed to inform the widespread use of cloth masks globally. However, as a precautionary measure, cloth masks should not be recommended for HCWs, particularly in high-risk situations, and guidelines need to be updated.

241226 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Sarigan, 5, #915 of 1790 🔗

Perfect – I’ll be sending that to my son’s headmaster who insisted parents wore them on Monday this week.

241279 ▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to leggy, #916 of 1790 🔗

Me too Leggy, same situation here. Arnie.

241338 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to leggy, 4, #917 of 1790 🔗

I did wonder whether we could take an alternative approach that increases the burden on the schools.

A “concerned parent” could argue that if the school believes that muzzling is an effective intervention, then the muzzling should be done according to the letter of the government’s advice :

“When wearing a face covering you should:

  • wash your hands thoroughly with soap and water for 20 seconds or use hand sanitiser before putting a face covering on
  • avoid wearing on your neck or forehead
  • avoid touching the part of the face covering in contact with your mouth and nose, as it could be contaminated with the virus
  • change the face covering if it becomes damp or if you’ve touched it
  • avoid taking it off and putting it back on a lot in quick succession (for example, when leaving and entering shops on a high street)”

Imagine if every time a child touched their mask, they had to dispose of it, wash their hands, and fit a new mask?

Could upping the ante in this way make face covering impossible to manage?

Or would the schools simply take it as an excuse to turn the screws even tighter?

241401 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to leggy, 2, #918 of 1790 🔗

And this quote I received from the BMA when I questioned their pro-mask stance:

We appreciate that this is an area in which there is little high-quality empirical evidence. There is, for example, a lack of randomised control trials showing that mask wearing is effective (either indoors or outdoors).

241250 ▶▶ James Bertram, replying to Sarigan, #919 of 1790 🔗

Too, will send it to my doctor’s surgery.

241321 ▶▶ James Bertram, replying to Sarigan, 3, #920 of 1790 🔗

Email sent to Doctor’s surgery:
Dear Secretaries,

I also thought this information on the efficacy of masks might be useful for your doctors:

a) There has been a recent major Danish study – the results are too controversial to be published:
https://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/10/23/

b) This is the scientific information on masks against Covid-19:
https://lockdownsceptics.org/scientific-information-on-masks-against-covid-19/

c) This is a RCT study in 2015 on masks in healthcare settings:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25903751/

I hope this is helpful.
Best wishes.

241218 calchas, replying to calchas, 7, #921 of 1790 🔗

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/russia-says-sputnik-5-covid-19-vaccine-92-effective-us-sees-record-jump-live-updates

Isn’t it funny how it was ok to criticise the Russian vaccine – even obligaory.

Criticize a western vaccine and you are an ‘anti-vaxxer’

Meanehile Russia claims its vaccine is 2 percentage points more efective than Pfizer’s.

hahahaha

So, why weren’t you an ‘anti-vaxxer’ for expressing concerns about the Russian vaccine?

241236 ▶▶ John P, replying to calchas, 3, #922 of 1790 🔗

lol, “Sputnik 5”? I still think Putin is taking the piss. Epic trolling.

241288 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to John P, #923 of 1790 🔗

Agreed!

241240 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to calchas, #924 of 1790 🔗

So this is the modern equivalent of the “Space race” then? Obviously the Russian vac will be unsafe because they ‘ve cut corners…

241259 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to godowneasy, #925 of 1790 🔗

Yes, seriously speaking, if the Russians have got a vaccine then why do we not just ask them to share it with us?

Save big pharma the trouble of developing one.

Oh, wait …

241295 ▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to John P, #926 of 1790 🔗

Exactly – shares the fixed costs, makes it cheaper. Nothing stops us doing our own tests if we think its necessary.

241225 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, #927 of 1790 🔗

https://www.spreaker.com/user/markwindows/climate-change-agents
Mark Windows will give you the lowdown on why smart cities are a dumb idea.

241234 ▶▶ IanE, replying to richard riewer, 12, #928 of 1790 🔗

Anything with ‘smart’ in the name is virtually guaranteed to be a) dumb, b) massively over-priced and c) very dangerous for our ‘civilisation’!

p.s. That includes MPs, Ministers, the PM and all government advisors.

241243 ▶▶▶ Hieronimusb, replying to IanE, 1, #929 of 1790 🔗

p.s. That includes MPs, Ministers, the PM and all government advisors.

I’d like to make them smart alright, a severe tongue lashing followed by some good old fashioned corporal punishment!

241340 ▶▶▶▶ l835, replying to Hieronimusb, #930 of 1790 🔗

You know they secretly love that!

241576 ▶▶▶▶▶ Hieronimusb, replying to l835, #931 of 1790 🔗

Hmm yes, I was forgetting that.. 😉

241358 ▶▶▶ Graham3, replying to IanE, 1, #932 of 1790 🔗

The County Council are erecting a *Smart* 2.3MW windmill here in Cornwall. Circa £3million.

241396 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to IanE, 2, #933 of 1790 🔗

and “smart” motorways which aren’t so smart for those having to wait on the lane and get killed!

241237 wendy, replying to wendy, 6, #934 of 1790 🔗

I’ve been working my way through the list of MPs who voted against the second lockdown and had some lovely replies back. The new Covid Recover Group seems very hopeful too. At least it should get other voices involved in the decision making.

241251 ▶▶ IanE, replying to wendy, 4, #935 of 1790 🔗

Much too little, much too late for me to believe that this is anything but a niche attempt for a route to power once reality finally hits the sheeple. I’d love to trust them but, having been fooled more times than I would like to admit, by our shower of politicians, I don’t!

241267 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to IanE, 2, #936 of 1790 🔗

True, but I would not take it as read that reality will hit sufficiently for the government to change course without backbench MPs threatening the PM and making scepticism mainstream. I have my reservations about some of the CRGs positions (T&T) but think we may be better off with them than without. Of course one could take the view that it’s better to have draconian restrictions imposed for months until we are at breaking point, so that when the break comes it is a clean one. It’s a shit situation either way.

241269 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to IanE, 2, #937 of 1790 🔗

It would have been of some use if they had been vocal sceptics back in March before the lockdown measures were introduced.

241296 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to IanE, 1, #938 of 1790 🔗

Agree. I wonder if they were motivated by the Michael O’Bernicia ultimatum?
COVID-1984 UPDATE |05-11-20 MOB says:
Today, the Trustees of the People’s Union of Britain s erved lawful documents upon the UK government cabinet office by hand, but armed policy enforcement officers said they were not allowed to accept any such deliveries.

So a courier was engaged and they were served again, but this time we were told that only mailed documents will be accepted by every government department and the package was returned.

We therefore dispatched the documents by Royal Mail Special Delivery and they are due to arrive tomorrow morning at the Cabinet Office in Whitehall. Electronic copies are also being sent to every member of the cabinet.

Within the notice, we demanded that the UK government does the following:

1. Publicly declare that the UK Government has no records of evidence that either the purportedly deadly virus or its cause actually exist, as per the results of numerous Freedom of Information requests to every government department [which are already in our possession].

2. Further declare that the Coronavirus Act 2020 is unlawful and the COVID-19 lockdown regulations are legally unenforceable and void ab initio.

3. Further declare that the Queen is no longer sovereign [by way of section 38 of the EU Withdrawal (Agreement) Act 2020, which purported to acknowledge Parliament as sovereign, thereby forfeiting its legitimacy under the Common Law], Parliament is therefore dissolved and British sovereignty automatically reverts to the People.

4. Further declare that Magna Carta 2020 – Declaration of Rights has re-established the Common Law and must be upheld by all government employees, from this day forth.

5. Further declare that the UK Government agrees to fully cooperate with comprehensive criminal investigations into the crimes committed against the People, as alleged in Magna Carta 2020.

They have until noon on 09/11/2020 to issue the foregoing declarations, in which case [we’ve told them] the sentences they receive for their crimes will be tempered by their unequivocal agreement to do all they can to put right their myriad of wrongdoings.

The two refusals of lawful documents the cabinet office are obliged to accept and respond to was filmed, along with the mailing of the package, and the video will be released as soon as it’s been edited.

https://www.thefreedomcycle.com/covid/biggest-criminal-fraud-case.html

241255 ▶▶ Mark, replying to captainbeefheart, 5, #940 of 1790 🔗

One thing street level plod has always been pretty good at sniffing out is who are “special” and can’t be bullied, versus those who have no top level or other protection.

241248 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 10, #941 of 1790 🔗

There’s been some really good debate going on earlier here, about the implications of the vaccine and why it doesn’t seem necessary.

So I want to redirect people’s focus. This charade isn’t about a vaccine!

Please read this: https://medium.com/@aarondavidsonn/the-health-passport-a-green-light-for-tyranny-545298e108d
All of it!

Then watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U88ZKJhztiM

THAT’s what it’s all about!

241263 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Cheezilla, #942 of 1790 🔗

I end to agree

241265 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to calchas, #943 of 1790 🔗

tend to agree

241271 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to Cheezilla, #944 of 1790 🔗

Totally agree.

241298 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #945 of 1790 🔗

Already been trialled at Heathrow airport.People need to wake up,the vaccine is the gateway drug to totalitarianism.

241303 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #946 of 1790 🔗

Plus the ID for some international travel routes (Singapore IIRC).

241392 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #947 of 1790 🔗

yes it’s coming and i find it horrifying – if this doesn’t cause a civil riot for personal freedoms i really don’t know what will.

241254 calchas, replying to calchas, 13, #948 of 1790 🔗

So, I hear you ask, when was the last time that masks and ‘social distancing’ were made mandatory.

Guantanamo Prison, prisoners were punished for physical contact with each other, amongst other things. See the picture below also.

Did they have to wear masks because their captors were concerned or their health?

What do you think?

comment image

241281 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to calchas, 3, #950 of 1790 🔗

I’ve shared this picture a couple of times. I saw someone recently on a bus wearing the silly big beats headphones, sunglasses and a mask. I immediately thought Guantanamo.

Makes me laugh that the BLM crew wear the same garb.

241283 ▶▶ wendy, replying to calchas, 2, #951 of 1790 🔗

That is a harrowing photo indeed

241408 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to calchas, 1, #952 of 1790 🔗

Guantanamo Bay was a total aberration. A sickening display of systematic inhumanity.
The things I have heard about what went on in there is the stuff of nightmares. People confined in small boxed for days on end, in the blast of air conditioners naked, lights on 24/7, strobes, continous loud music, mostly US pop tunes, Britney Spears was a favourite, psychologically disturbing backing tracks, rabbits being strangled, people being tortured.

Just horrible.

241256 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 1, #953 of 1790 🔗

Computing Forever doing a thing on compulsory vaccination on Youtube at the moment.

241274 ▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to Achilles, -1, #954 of 1790 🔗

I find his videos annoying to watch now to be honest, he just wants the advertising views.

241330 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Achilles, 3, #955 of 1790 🔗

Telegraph says France is debating it. Seems many in France are not keen on medications and vaccinations. I have been fearful of this but now I think it will be easy to hide away as so many others will be wanting vaccination and I am sure by the time they come to find those who don’t Covid will have become just another endemic virus so compulsory vaccination will be hard to justify. That is even if a vaccination is effective.

241275 chris, 2, #956 of 1790 🔗
241278 wendy, replying to wendy, 25, #957 of 1790 🔗

Yesterday was my Dads 87th birthday. My sister and I and Dads 83 year old sister sat outside the locked double glazed patio doors and the care home staff helped dad to open the presents and cards we had brought. Dad seemed to enjoy himself, tucking into his birthday treats and was pleased with the staff fussing him. And in some way it seems he has got used to this as just the way things have always been. With his vascular dementia his short term memory is almost nonexistent. It’s lovely to hear him and his sister chatting about their childhood.

The government had to change their guidelines about care home visiting during this second lockdown, I think a judge over turned them, they had originally said even window visiting would be banned. Over turning this has taken care homes back to one nominated visitor per resident, distanced, through Perspex and in PPE. Johns Campaign are asking the government to treat family as key workers, with regular testing like staff. So far they have refused. They can put so much money and energy into searching for asymptomatic cases in Liverpool but do not wish to help families and people at the end of their lives.

It is likely my Dads last birthday. My feelings go from extreme anger to extreme sadness and extreme powerlessness in the middle. Some of the back bench MPs spoke about the care home situation in their speeches prior to the vote last Wednesday and my hopes are these MPs will help with this situation.

241309 ▶▶ leggy, replying to wendy, 4, #958 of 1790 🔗

I’m so sorry wendy, it’s just inhumane.

241320 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to leggy, 6, #959 of 1790 🔗

Thank you. It’s been such a comfort being able to comment here and be amongst people who understand.

241365 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to wendy, 6, #960 of 1790 🔗

They can put so much money and energy into searching for asymptomatic cases in Liverpool but do not wish to help families and people at the end of their lives.

This is the sickening crux of it, and proof that they simply do not care enough to do something small that would make such an enormous difference to real people living in the real world. Instead they congratulate themselves for making enormous and pointless testing schemes costing the taxpayer millions whilst claiming that it would be “impossible” to protect the elderly and vulnerable.

241410 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #961 of 1790 🔗

All very political isn’t it. The people in care homes can’t shout very loudly due to their circumstances and their families don’t seem to matter. Thank you to you and RickH for your kindness.

241387 ▶▶ RickH, replying to wendy, 3, #962 of 1790 🔗

Yes. There’s no sense in this, and – apart from everything else – one despairs of the low quality of the various actors – political and ‘scientific’ who are creating this social disaster. I am coming round to thinking that a major component in all this is the gradual erosion of breadth and depth of experience in parliament. Only the most socially retarded and venal would promote situations like this.

My mother died in 2016. It was a timely death at 92 – and it could have been from a multitude of causes at that age. But I shudder to think what it would have been like at the present time, as reflected in your experience.

241416 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to wendy, 1, #963 of 1790 🔗

I think this government is f’king inhuman! I’d like to lock them up and throw away the key!

241514 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #964 of 1790 🔗

Put them in a care home – there’ll be no need to throw away the key – prevent their loved ones from visiting and allow them the very occasional glimpse of their kids through a double glazed window.

241550 ▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to bluemoon, #965 of 1790 🔗

Thank you bluemoon and Bella donna. Just knowing I am not alone is a help. I am sure I would have gone mad without Toby doing this website and without everyone here.

241280 George L, 4, #966 of 1790 🔗

All those considering vaccination should would do well to take a look at this website before doing so. The MRHA are expecting a high volume of Covid-19 Adverse Drug Reaction. Now just mention on UK Column News..

Does anybody seriously think this vaccine has just appeared by magic, or its been sitting in storage waiting its time..

Short description:
The MHRA urgently seeks an Artificial Intelligence (AI) software tool to process the expected high volume of Covid-19 vaccine Adverse Drug Reaction (ADRs) and ensure that no details from the ADRs’ reaction text are missed.

Date of conclusion of the contract:
14/09/2020

Date of dispatch of this notice:
19/10/2020

https://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED%3ANOTICE%3A506291-2020%3ATEXT%3AEN%3AHTML&src=0&fbclid=IwAR1uYFVlq4BpcPj6vwfYkhVFIxl8mcIvyWqqh1XGS2HdvJiVp0pABIh7AQk

241287 chris, 2, #967 of 1790 🔗

Sorry to repeat this is worth a second watch, history repeats itself.
https://brandnewtube.com/watch/channel-4-news-exposes-swine-flu-scandal_zCrwYe6xiUqFDEv.html

241290 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 5, #968 of 1790 🔗

Hello – tory Chief whip has 203 proxy vote for MPs. Democracy dead

Beyond Crucial Update on Viral Issue – and Lockdown “Science”!
11 Nov 2020
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mboEkVl9ooc

Title says it all. Please share this one as widely as possible, especially if you are interesting in saving the society of Ireland, the UK and Europe! (If not the world)
Ivor Cummins

241304 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #969 of 1790 🔗

Thanks, will be watching this tonight. Need to drop Ivor a few quid too.

241292 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 7, #970 of 1790 🔗

https://twitter.com/stevebrown2856/status/1326469308080381952
Many interesting graphs.Belgium had an enormous spike and quick dropdown. Tests have been reduced but test positivity also down.Also hospitalization which was high now also dropping.No indications that lockdown 2 had any effect.But could be the first European country to bend the curve.

 “Quite a staggering drop in reported cases in Belgium (national lockdown started 2nd November, so too late to be driving the change)

241725 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to swedenborg, #971 of 1790 🔗

Could be reaching herd immunity – similar trend appearing in Netherlands, possibly?

241300 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 1, #972 of 1790 🔗

Masks are brilliant! Well, this load of propagandists says so, so they must be. They’re wheeling out the old story of the hairdressers in America to support their view that (my emphasis) “[masks] can have a huge effect cutting transmission”

The Telegraph. Note: all Telegraph articles are free today.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/masks-protect-wearer-people-american-health-officials-issue/

241301 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Tenchy, 7, #973 of 1790 🔗

Someone posted this earlier – don’t seem to agree. Suggests cloth masks are worse than no mask at all.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25903751/

241713 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to leggy, 1, #974 of 1790 🔗

Masks are worse than no masks at all.

241314 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Tenchy, 4, #975 of 1790 🔗

My university loves to bang on about them being an “extra layer of protection” alongside antisocial distancing and one-way systems. And now apparently testing will allow for “better confidence”. Genuinely think we’re idiots.

241308 Mark, replying to Mark, 12, #976 of 1790 🔗

Revealed: WHO chiefs were shocked by Britain’s Covid response and alarmed the government was aiming for herd immunity and allowing Premier League matches to go ahead
While the WHO has been reluctant to publicly criticise its member states’ response to the coronavirus pandemic, leaked recordings show it was privately more critical, specifically saying it was shocked at Britain’s pandemic response. WHO emergencies chief Dr. Michael Ryan (pictured left with Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, director general of the World Health Organisation, centre, and Maria van Kerkhove, right, technical lead of WHO’s Health Emergencies program on March 9, 2020) described Britain’s pandemic strategy as ‘problematic’ after hearing the U.K.’s chief scientific officer publicly say the country was aiming for herd immunity, and was critical of the continuation of Premier League football despite other countries in Europe cancelling sporting events and mass gatherings. Still, he said, the different approaches to tackling COVID-19 globally could prove to be ‘a massive ecological study’ that would allow WHO to document what worked best. ‘It’s macabre in some ways, but it’s reality,’ he said. The reveal comes as the WHO kicks off its annual meeting this week, and as it faces criticism for not taking a stronger and more vocal role in handling the pandemic.

One of the many costs of a Trump defeat, if big tech, big media and the dominant left get their way in propagandising and manipulating opinion and the vote sufficiently to get Biden into office,.will be the loss of a chance to sustain the necessary clipping of WHO’s wings as a result of the US withdrawal, which Biden has already announced he will overturn.

It’s clear that WHO were absolutely on the panicker side in the crucial weeks in February and March during which the UK government was howled out of its intended Swedish style response, and undoubtedly provided a conduit by which Chinese authoritarianism was piped into the rest of the world.

Creating huge global institutions of this kind might have some benefits, but they come with massive costs and risks as well. Once in place, as we have seen with our own NHS, they can be hard to shift, and can wield immense pressure to warp policy.

Dangerous tools.

241348 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Mark, 7, #977 of 1790 🔗

So, WHO chiefs were shocked to hear that the UK was sticking to its pandemic preparedness plan and not being railroaded into Chinese authoritarianism… until it was.

When I think about where we could be now if Boris had stuck to his guns, listened to Michael Levitt and told Neil Ferguson where to go, I’m almost in tears. It’s a genuine tragedy.

241361 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, -3, #978 of 1790 🔗

the dominant left”

Still living in dreamland I see, Mark.

Either that, or your concepts are so far right that anything up to Genghiz Khan is counted as ‘left’!

241369 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, 1, #979 of 1790 🔗

It’s not your form of left, but it’s arguably some form of left, albeit not one that anyone here would approve of, from the left or right

It’s the dominant something, anyway, something that you and Mark and me probably share the same views on

241367 ▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Mark, #980 of 1790 🔗

Oh please. The German Bundesliga went back weeks before us. I got fond of Union Berlin. The WHO needs to wind its neck in.

241443 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Miss Owl, 2, #981 of 1790 🔗

And let’s not forget Belarus never stopped its football league.

241724 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Mark, #982 of 1790 🔗

WHO were absolutely on the panicker side”

They were working to an agenda, similar to H1N1 and other pharma money-spinners, only this time to make it permanent.

241315 Miss Owl, replying to Miss Owl, 16, #983 of 1790 🔗

Danish prime minister on ArseFace: it was a mistake to cull uninfected mink. “ It turns out afterwards that there wasn’t the necessary legal basis to put down all the mink that weren’t infected and weren’t in the zones of infection. It’s a clear mistake,” she says.

https://www.facebook.com/mettefrederiksen.dk/

Reminds me of Professor Lockdown’s foot and mouth debacle. You might not agree with wearing fur – I don’t – but this is the livelihood of many thousands of Danes.

241384 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Miss Owl, 1, #984 of 1790 🔗

Indeed.

we are so sorryyyyyy

241412 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Miss Owl, #985 of 1790 🔗

Ooops!
Let put this behind us, learn some lessons and move on shall we?

241729 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Miss Owl, #986 of 1790 🔗

Same agenda – Destroy small businesses and make everyone dependent on the state.

241317 Masqueless, replying to Masqueless, 6, #987 of 1790 🔗

Someone just showed me this video of Macron having mask troubles – funny as fuck. It’s a couple of months old but just in case it was missed on this site here it is. It sort of sums up the whole mask debate in 30 seconds for me.
Great blog by the way – a must read every day for me and some quality comments and links too.Thanks and keep up the fight for truth, it’s the only way we’ll get out of this.

241374 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Masqueless, 2, #988 of 1790 🔗

That’s superb. Macron is a bellend.

241323 leggy, replying to leggy, 11, #989 of 1790 🔗

I’m on a conference call at the moment with colleagues around the world and struggling to suppress my anger as I hear from a guy in Atlanta, Georgia. He explains to us that the reason he is late to the call, is because his teenage daughter is experiencing a covid induced breakdown and has been hospitalised as a result. Why are they doing this?

241328 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to leggy, 7, #990 of 1790 🔗

Poor girl – and her family. Not the only ones of course.
The fallout from their crimes is appalling.

241364 ▶▶ Mark, replying to leggy, 3, #991 of 1790 🔗

“covid induced breakdown

Covid-induced, or lockdown-induced?

241425 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Mark, #992 of 1790 🔗

Sad, I thought that Georgia was one of the better states.

241448 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Mark, 3, #993 of 1790 🔗

He said the former, but it’s the latter isn’t it.

Speaking with a colleague in Boston now – he’s having to home school as wearing a mask 6 hours a day is making his son ill. No exemptions in the US.

241327 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 11, #994 of 1790 🔗

Working my way through the comments to the dreadful article by Philip Johnson in this morning’s DT.

Look at these:

1) On the Daily Mail YouTube channel there is an interesting interview with someone who took part in the Pfizer vaccine trials.
Whilst no obvious lingering side effects, he had some significant immediate issues. It didn’t sound as though people should be driving themselves home after having the jab.

2) One has to question a vaccine that requires you to lie down for 15 minutes after it has been administered. That’s a first.
And how are they going to manage it if they can only do max 3 an hour per ‘couch’?

241372 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #995 of 1790 🔗

why do they have to lie down after the vaccine?? sounds odd – i’ve had many jabs and never have had to lie down …

241398 ▶▶▶ dickyboy, replying to Sue, 12, #996 of 1790 🔗

so they can put the tag on your big toe, it saves time later.

241439 ▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to dickyboy, 3, #997 of 1790 🔗

Thanks, dickyboy! My first belly laugh of the day.

That makes me think, actually. I am someone who used to laugh a lot every day. Not generally on my own (I’m not that funny), but in company. Now it’s a big event and certainly not a daily occurrence. Bastards.

241332 Smelly Melly, 12, #998 of 1790 🔗

Watching the covid fanatics bang on about how brilliant the vaccine will be, is like watching a beaten and abused dog being given a bone. The dog is happy and elated at being given some small act of kindness. However, when that bone is taken away the dog will put its tail between its legs and cower back to its place of misery.

241335 AngloWelshDragon, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 14, #999 of 1790 🔗

It would not be enough for politicians to have the jab. I’d want to see their kids have it to and the entire Royal family including their children And to be sure they were having what the public were being offered I would like the doses to be selected randomly from the warehouse by a random member of the public. And even then I still wouldn’t have the jab!

241341 ▶▶ Janice21, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 12, #1000 of 1790 🔗

Funny thing is, Trump and Boris – both overweight and Trump in the older category – had the virus and recovered. Boris even quoted saying he feels as fit as a Butchers Dog these days. So if he can beat the virus, then why the need for us healthy folk to have it?

241394 ▶▶ James Bertram, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 1, #1001 of 1790 🔗

And the corgis. All barking.

241336 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 8, #1002 of 1790 🔗

Not sure how many people here live in a Lib Dem constituency – according to duckduckgo there are only 11 in the country so presumably I’m one of not many.

I’ve finally received a reply from my Lib Dem MP, following an email sent before the lockdown vote. I thought it might be helpful to reproduce some sections here, to give an idea of the Lib Dem position on lockdowns.

There is a general obsession with test, trace and isolate, this apparently will be the magic answer to a widespread and flu-like illness that is now endemic in the community.

Until we have a vaccine, the only way to manage the virus is through a comprehensive strategy to test, trace and isolate every case of coronavirus… I simply cannot overestimate how important it is… the single most effective tool we have – but it is in disarray. I cannot be clearer – it is because the government has failed to set up an effective test, trace and isolate system that we are now facing a second lockdown.

They are, of course, with Starmer in believing that a circuit breaker back in September would have solved all our problems (and would not have been extended beyond 2 weeks), as evidenced presumably by the huge drop in Welsh cases seen following the firebreak – not sure what other “lessons from abroad” she might be referring to. The scientists are of course always right:

There was an opportunity for us to have a shorter lockdown some weeks ago but this chance was squandered. Lessons from abroad show that these shorter, timely restrictions are more effective at tacking the virus….. Had Boris Johnson decided to follow the scientists’ advice, this could have been far less damaging.

She also believes that:

…the number of people being hospitalised and tragically dying from Covid is rising at an alarming rate.

I would reply with some educational material, but I’m not sure I’ve got the stomach for it any more… What’s the point?

241360 ▶▶ Mark, replying to A. Contrarian, 6, #1003 of 1790 🔗

Trying to “manage” (meaning suppress) a disease that is now basically endemic and seasonal, at costs that are literally astronomical compared to rational assessments of the value of medical interventions – delusional.

Scoring petty political points based on petty criticisms of the government founded in pure fantasies – opportunist.

Delusional and opportunist – a very bad combination in a lawmaker or a political party.

LibDems proving again that the recent popular opinion of them as a waste of political space was, in this case, correct.

241436 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Mark, #1004 of 1790 🔗

Sums it up nicely, thanks.

241363 ▶▶ Julian, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #1005 of 1790 🔗

Hard to know what the point is, but I email my useless MP now and again to remind her someone is watching her every move and won’t forget what has been done, in the unlikely event she gets an attack of conscience

241417 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1006 of 1790 🔗

My Lib Dem woman is a total twat as well.

241435 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Two-Six, #1007 of 1790 🔗

It’s not the same one is it?

241469 ▶▶▶ Tiberius, replying to Two-Six, #1008 of 1790 🔗

She must have a well-endowed other half.

241446 ▶▶ RickH, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1009 of 1790 🔗

That shit you’ve got from your MP is spouted across the board from members. It’s as if they’ve gifted their brains to the government for psy-ops research.

241482 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1010 of 1790 🔗

The Lib Dems are a bit like the Holy Roman Empire, which as Voltaire said was neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire. In the same way, they are neither liberal nor democrats.

241747 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to A. Contrarian, #1011 of 1790 🔗

Call her out on all the gross ‘errors’.

Keep a copy to hand so that you can use it elsewhere. Perhaps LS should have stock of prepared responses – just like the SS brigade.

241339 Leemc23, 1, #1012 of 1790 🔗

A couple of weeks ago I saw a documentary on pandemics from last year which included a reference to CEPI and their vaccine work. Their approach to vaccines was considered “ground breaking” as it was using pre-fusion spike as their immunogen (their words not mine) and this is the technology behind the jab that’s coming now + Sputnik 5 I think?

CEPI claim that “The speed with which vaccines are being advanced is possible due to innovation and resources, not because any corners are being cut”.

Well that remains to be seen, but it does help a little to understand that rather than being “new” this type of vaccine has been in some stage of development for at least 3 years.

Not that this reassures me enough to take it without thinking !

241345 godowneasy, 12, #1013 of 1790 🔗

Excellent report from Iain Davis (In- This-Together) on the miracle Pfizer / BioNTech Vaccine.

https://in-this-together.com/vaccine-salvation/

A few extracts:

  • Vaccine salvation, in the form of Pfizer and BioNTech’s mRNA-based BNT162b2 (BNT) vaccine, promises to set us free from the COVID 19 horror, according to official sources .
  • There are currently no clinical trial results for BNT162b2 and trials aren’t due to complete until June 2021. It is simply the latest COVID vaccine story you are being asked to swallow without question or complaint.
  • Not only is there no evidence the new vaccine is safe for anyone, there isn’t any that it does anything useful. All anyone has is a press release from the manufacturers claiming their vaccine is fantastic. Off the back of this, the MSM and governments around the world are reporting its great success and the manufacturers’ share price is soaring.
  • If approved, which is practically guaranteed due to the deliberate removal of nearly all licensing restrictions, BNT will be the first mRNA vaccine ever to be administered to the human population.
  • FDA’s guidance for potential Emergency Use Authorization allows unlicensed medicines to be distributed in times of claimed emergency. Similarly, in the UK, proposed changes to Human Medicine Regulations, will enable the same. In both cases, pharmaceutical corporations have no liability for any harm their vaccines may cause.
  • Instead of reliable licensing framework and legal protections, we have a kind of pharmaceutical Wild West, where everyone is chasing their pot of gold. Pfizer and BioNTech have announced their intention to use this new system to sell their unlicensed vaccine without finishing their trials.

So – nothing to worry about then. Worth a read.

241350 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 11, #1014 of 1790 🔗

Very odd “information” piece on the BBC news website which is headed up “could the vaccine be compulsory ?” When you go into the peace, the question is neither asked nor answered! There are lengthy disquisitions on the vaccine. They admit that no medicine is 100% safe. Not sure I’ve ever seen that on a BBC website before. There is some rubbish about how we all take paracetamol without thinking. WelI (a) I don’t take paracetamol except very occasionally and (b) I think about it before I do.

Seems like the BBC are gaslighting us.

241355 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to OKUK, 4, #1015 of 1790 🔗

Also paracetamol has been in widespread usage for many, many years and has been taken by considerably more than 24,000 people of all ages and in all states of health…

241438 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to A. Contrarian, #1016 of 1790 🔗

Yes – that’s the point. It’s been thoroughly tested over a sufficient period of time for the side-effects and contra-indications to be known.

Come back in three years with this vaccine, after properly accredited long-term RCTs, and that will be a start to getting to the same situation.

241357 ▶▶ Julian, replying to OKUK, 11, #1017 of 1790 🔗

Seems like the BBC are gaslighting us.”

Their role in this has been among the most despicable

241464 ▶▶▶ FlynnQuill, replying to Julian, 2, #1018 of 1790 🔗

They and the rest of the MSM have blood on their hands.

241362 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to OKUK, 10, #1019 of 1790 🔗

BBC

241400 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to godowneasy, 1, #1020 of 1790 🔗

“Breaking News”? It’s old news.

241351 Tiberius, replying to Tiberius, 11, #1021 of 1790 🔗

The Government, being the sagacious beard that it is, says car washes can stay open if they are connected to the petrol station.

However the virus is so clever that it can differentiate between geographical proximity and commercial connection.

So my local constabulary and council won’t allow independent car washes to stay open even though they are situated on the filling station forecourt.

The Blobs have deemed that the virus won’t get you if Shell own your onsite car wash, but you’ll cop it bad if it’s run by local self-employed guys.

But if you want to spray your virus-laden breath all over the forecourt, that’s fine because the jet wash is open.

241389 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Tiberius, 3, #1022 of 1790 🔗

The idea of using one of those hot and steamy car-washes, where the doors shut you in, which could have had GOODNESS KNOWS HOW MANY OTHER PEOPLE IN THERE, BrEaThing AlL OveR tHe PLacE make me feel SICK WITH WORRY!!! TERRIFYING…..
Those things are a DeaTh tRap!!!!!!!!
Wibble……

241353 Janice21, replying to Janice21, 16, #1023 of 1790 🔗

Not a DUP supporter, but they are trying to block restrictions being extended, with Arlene Foster recognising that ‘ we are facing a mental health tsunami’.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54897748

241873 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Janice21, #1024 of 1790 🔗

There are 4 DUP MPs in the Sane 39, not sure how many there are in total but it’s probably a better sanity/insanity ratio than in the Conservative Party.

241354 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 13, #1025 of 1790 🔗

Assuming the rapid testing produces similar numbers of “infected” when they roll it out to other locations, the government are going to be in a bind. Either:

  1. The PCR test is overidentifying infections by a factor of at least 2. Therefore the PCR test is not fit for purpose and cases, infections and deaths have all been overestimated by a factor of at least 2. A vaccine is not needed and the epidemic is over.
  2. The rapid flow test is underestimating infections by a factor of at least 2. Therefore the rapid test is not fit for purpose and the government have spaffed millions up the wall in trying to implement a failed system. The vaccine will hit similar problems. Hancock must go.
  3. There has been a miraculous drop in infections in Liverpool since the last ONS survey estimate. This drop will of course be found in other locations when they are mass tested also. A vaccine is not needed and the epidemic is over.

There isn’t really a “good” way out of this for the government as far as I can see. Although I’m sure they will do their best to arrange one…

241356 ▶▶ Julian, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #1026 of 1790 🔗

They will have to resort to “there might be a third wave”. Or keep us locked down until the vaccine is rolled out, so they can pretend it is lockdowns that are keeping us from dying.

241428 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Julian, 2, #1027 of 1790 🔗

This worries me greatly following the Big Announcement on Monday. Now a miracle vaccine is in the pipeline we won’t be allowed to “waste all our efforts” by being given our freedoms back before it arrives.

241366 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1028 of 1790 🔗

The figures are shockingly low. I’m actually now advocating for the lemmings to cue up. The more people we can have tested the better at this rate.

241430 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to JHuntz, #1029 of 1790 🔗

I agree, I think mass testing is a huge waste of time, money and resources for this kind of virus, but if it reveals how low the prevalence of the virus really is, it can only work in our favour.

241385 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1030 of 1790 🔗

Listening to Twatt Handycock on JHB, he made a revealing slip-up. He Said “As the VIRUS rolls out”, where he meant to say “As the VACCINE rolls out”.

So he has an idea in his head that THE VIRUS is “ROLLING OUT” a bit like a new iphone or something. Corporate speak, like almost as we deploy the virus or roll it out.

241431 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Two-Six, 2, #1031 of 1790 🔗

To be fair, he can probably barely remember the difference between the two most days.

241368 Ricky R, replying to Ricky R, 15, #1032 of 1790 🔗

Unfortunately, a vaccine means nothing. The PM and all his SAGE puppetmasters have made a massive push in the last few days to shift the goalposts and to make clear that a vaccine will not change anything.

On the bright side I can’t see a high adherence for the rules once people start getting vaccinated. The lockdown has gone down like a cup of hot sick in my area. Compliance with the rules is rock bottom and the streets are just as busy as the were before Nov 5th.

241376 ▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to Ricky R, 6, #1033 of 1790 🔗

they’ve also shot themselves in the foot by reporting that it probably won’t be offered to anyone under 50 any time soon, begging the question then why the massive overreaction if there’s no reason to worry about anyone under 50

241420 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Anothersceptic2, #1034 of 1790 🔗

All the over 50’s will have to go to back to work, and the under 50’s will isolate

241423 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Anothersceptic2, 2, #1035 of 1790 🔗

And it’s “not for children” apparently (Why? Either the vaccine is super dangerous or kids aren’t at risk of illness or transmission, in which case we can end all the crazy measures inflicted on children in schools right now).

241433 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Anothersceptic2, #1036 of 1790 🔗

Yes I thought this too. Under 50s are going to start getting on with their lives the best they can and ignore all government says. People will stop listening to everything sage, Boris, Hancock etc have got to say.

241475 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Anothersceptic2, #1037 of 1790 🔗

Surely you mean shot in the arm.

241383 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Ricky R, 5, #1038 of 1790 🔗

The vaccine news was just a smokescreen to dilute the attention away form the dodgy data used for the 2nd lockdown

241405 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Ricky R, #1039 of 1790 🔗

The trouble is that if the government now tell everyone the vaccine’s no good I think they will lose even more public support given that such a big thing has been made of it

They have been successful in instilling fear and setting people against each other but I don’t think they are as clever as they believe themselves to be

241791 ▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Julian, #1040 of 1790 🔗

Almost unbelievably what they have done is create another trap for themselves by bigging up the vaccine as the answer to everyone’s prayers without knowing the facts. They ought to have known that a vaccine might turn out not to work, or not have been properly tested among all age groups, people might not want it or any one of a number of possible problems. As someone pointed out here yesterday the normal period for development is 10 – 20 years.

So if they allow the vaccine to be given, they are responsible for any adverse consequences (or would be in a just world) and if they pour cold water on it they lose what little credibility they have left.

Far from being clever they make mistake after mistake after mistake, and tell lie after lie after lie, and still the majority of MPs back them.

241406 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Ricky R, 1, #1041 of 1790 🔗

Same round here Ricky, all that rubbish on Monday was a massive distraction from LD2 generally and trying to win back the masses by carrot waving the vaccine. Which if they’re having to do that shows stick threatening isn’t working as it used to.

241426 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Ricky R, 1, #1042 of 1790 🔗

It’s the same here in the North West, people out and about, no one bothered at all. M62 yesterday was a busy as before lockdown 2 started. I never thought I would be so pleased to see the M62 full and busy. I am sure folks are continuing to have friends around. So what is the point of having closed all these businesses? Only real thing will be young people not meeting in pubs.

241377 Julian, replying to Julian, 5, #1043 of 1790 🔗

Does anyone have a full list of the MPs signed up to the Covid Recovery Group, or a link to their website or Twitter feed, if they have one?

I was very critical of Steve Baker previously and still not sure I trust him too far, but it’s an interesting example of how the PM’s hubris may be his undoing – they could have been more subtle with the dodgy data, but they so obvioulsy overreached that it sent Baker and possibly others (May?) over the edge.

241380 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Julian, 4, #1044 of 1790 🔗

very critical of Steve Baker

Amen

241442 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Julian, 1, #1045 of 1790 🔗

COVID Recovery Group on Wikipedia shows the steering committee members, but doesn’t have a list of all members.

241379 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #1046 of 1790 🔗

Another FOI back asking for the justification/science they have for a positive test being used for the incarceration of the population and closing businesses – same response:

Response
We confirm that Cheshire West and Chester Council does not hold information relating to your request. We can advise you that information may be held by Public Health England and NHS England.

241404 ▶▶ steph, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #1047 of 1790 🔗

You are a legend doing all of this on our behalf. I look forward to it coming home to roost for those “just following orders”.

241447 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #1048 of 1790 🔗

Awkward,

You are a legend in my lifetime. Not only are you ‘doing something about it’ but you are inspiring others AND showing us the way too!

I don’t always comment but I do ALWAYS read what you are up to.

Great work.

Arnie.

241382 Richard, replying to Richard, 3, #1049 of 1790 🔗

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/pfizers-ceo-dumps-60-his-stock-covid-vaccine-announcement

“Pre planned” apparently – USD 5m trousered when stock price was at 52 week high – who would have thought ?

241403 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Richard, 2, #1050 of 1790 🔗

So technically it is insider trading. You, the CEO, follow the correct channels to notify the authorities that you are going to sell stock on a particular day, then you plan this monumental announcement for exactly that same day. The stock jump up, you sell and make a tidy profit. What’s wrong with that?

241413 ▶▶ peyrole, replying to Richard, 4, #1051 of 1790 🔗

Yes just seen that. To make it legal he had to have planned it on that day, timed just after the election. So I suspect he expected a jump in price because of an ‘expected’ election result. Of course then the timing of the press release a day before pushed up the stock price to a 52 week high. As the protocol was for the release to be made after 32 infections, 2 weeks earlier, it stinks.
Conclusion, the release was withheld both because of the election but mainly because of the stock dump.
Quite why anyone would now have any confidence in the ‘vaccine’ after this relevation is a serious question.

241528 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to peyrole, #1052 of 1790 🔗

I think he had an agreement in place so when the price reached $x his shares got sold.

241388 JHuntz, replying to JHuntz, 3, #1053 of 1790 🔗

Anyone have details for sending in an FOI request to the Conservative and Labour party?

I am interested to see if there membership has dropped since March. I’m presuming this is something they can divulge.

241411 ▶▶ RickH, replying to JHuntz, #1054 of 1790 🔗

They’re not statutory bodies.

241427 ▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to RickH, 1, #1055 of 1790 🔗

Ah alright, I thought they would have been caught by it. That’s a pity.

241390 swedenborg, 7, #1056 of 1790 🔗

An article about Scott Gottlieb, former FDA director and a year after that on several C-19 related companies incl Pfizer. Commentator MSM US and one of the main persons in Project fear

https://jordanschachtel.substack.com/p/the-covid-19-hustler-scott-gottlieb

COVID-19 is the best thing that has ever happened to Scott Gottlieb’s career, and in particular, his checking account. He sits on the board of at least 3 companies that have cleared regulatory hurdles and have been granted approvals or business with the FDA, and another organization that has secured billions in funding from the U.S. taxpayer. On an almost daily basis, Gottlieb pushes the need for widespread testing of COVID-19, without mentioning the several companies he is invested in, such as Illumina, will make big bucks off of a constant COVID-19 testing regime”

241402 wendy, replying to wendy, 2, #1057 of 1790 🔗

Unherds Freddie Sayers interview with Tim Spector is very good. It’s on YouTube. He is. I hope he will be one of the people called on by the new CRG. Hard to see how herd immunity can keep being denied from why he has to say. He is balanced about vaccination also.

241491 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to DocRC, #1059 of 1790 🔗

Thanks for posting the link to it Doc. It’s a fantastic interview. Do you think Toby and the new CRG will see it. I’ll email Toby the link just in case. It’s what Mike Yeadon and Ivor Cummins and Sunetra Gupta have said all along and all been threatened and ridiculed.

perhaps we can make sure as many get to see it as possible.

241493 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to DocRC, #1060 of 1790 🔗

excellent interview. he can go on the list with heneghan, gupta et al

his app/data makes the case of herd immunity as does he in the interview

241407 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #1061 of 1790 🔗

HA HA HA oops moments when questioned on the US election fraud:

http://82.221.129.208/oshitfuck.mp4

Apparently Trump has won North Carolina.

Chair of the Election Commission states there is election fraud going on:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQO12-MLlEA&feature=youtu.be

241424 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1062 of 1790 🔗

AHhhhh it’s ALL COMING OUT NOW

241434 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1063 of 1790 🔗

There’s a great Tucker Carlson video about this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5ki6S-WsKU

241480 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to DRW, 1, #1064 of 1790 🔗

Love Tucker Carlson, also a great rant by Alan Jones on Sky News Australia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4bkSGhaq94&t=4s

241441 ▶▶ Marialta, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1065 of 1790 🔗

Brilliant thanks for posting.

241536 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Awkward Git, #1066 of 1790 🔗

For those who like to understand the techy bits, here is a good analysis of skewing the results:
https://youtu.be/Ztu5Y5obWPk

241704 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Awkward Git, #1067 of 1790 🔗

And Alaska. Only took 6 days to report….

241409 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 6, #1068 of 1790 🔗

The proceedings of the Treasury Select Committee referred to in the Round Up section are both interesting and depressing. Professor Foster repeatedly used evidence to make the point that the lockdowns are more lethal than the virus ever could be. Professor Miles was more understated but made the same point even more tellingly by making it clear that the restrictions were not justifiable on any cost benefit analysis, no matter how much benefit of the doubt was given to the pro-lockdown position. The MPs constantly attempted to “refute” this point by preferring the outcomes of the computer models and by moralising and by impugning the motivations of anyone who is critical of the lockdowns. One of them (Labour ie, the official Opposition) even claimed that the government had proved that the lockdown saved one and a half million lives.

241429 ▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #1069 of 1790 🔗

utter nonsense, we already know that lockdowns have killed more people than the “official” covid 19 figures

241444 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Anothersceptic2, #1070 of 1790 🔗

Perhaps you might care to tell Rushanara Ali and the rest of them, but I doubt it will have any effect.

241473 ▶▶ annie, replying to Steve Hayes, #1071 of 1790 🔗

Pantsdown’s guesswork times three, eh?Do they have two spare Pantsdowns beavering away?

241701 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Steve Hayes, #1072 of 1790 🔗

I’ve seen a couple of those committees in action before, i.e. the Christmas storm and power blackouts across the country, and pay-day loans.
It’s mostly MPs grandstanding for the benefit of the cameras and news media, so they can get a soundbite reported.
They’ve already made their minds up, and aren’t really interested in fact finding.

241422 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 7, #1073 of 1790 🔗

The vaccine, when they roll it out, will be so good, countries all over the world will be gagging for it, making the pharma company and its investors very rich. The End

241452 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to Dan Clarke, #1074 of 1790 🔗

Perhaps we should all buy shares in the pharmaceutical companies? That is a half serious question because if it’s what the sheeple maybe we can take a cut? I dunno though, morals, ethics, hmm…

241456 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Arnie, #1075 of 1790 🔗

Before all of this it would have been a good investment, not so good now.

241457 ▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to Arnie, 1, #1076 of 1790 🔗

Buy shares in refrigeration units, maybe.

241756 ▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Recusant, #1077 of 1790 🔗

Or… buy shares in companies that have never made refrigeration units before, but are happy to tender for the contract and happen to be headed by someone who is friends with a senior tory.

241767 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Dan Clarke, #1078 of 1790 🔗

No. “Let’s keep this fiddle playing”

241437 Lollypop, replying to Lollypop, 1, #1079 of 1790 🔗

Question. I refuse a vaccination. I then get covid19. Do I get refused treatment by NHS for refusing vaccine?

241468 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Lollypop, 4, #1080 of 1790 🔗

No, not if you turn up at A&E. They cannot refuse to treat you. Same as if you drink a bottle of vodka, smoke 60 a day and end up being unable to breath, or weight 30 stone from eating junk for your entire life. Or, indeed, if you have managed to get the last flight out of Lagos and are already needing to be delivered of your triplets.

241470 ▶▶ annie, replying to Lollypop, 1, #1081 of 1790 🔗

According to Piers Morgan, yes you do. Disagree with him and you risk death.

241483 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Lollypop, #1082 of 1790 🔗

No they couldn’t do that. NHS still treat drug and alcohol illnesses and obesity. But given the strange political blame climate we are in I wouldn’t be surprised if this was suggested.

241440 Victoria, 1, #1083 of 1790 🔗

Great website

 Cures for Covid-19, confirmed by Medical experts
[no need to sign up, just click page and then you are in]
https://www.stopworldcontrol.com/cures/#

Download posters, flyers and memes
https://www.stopworldcontrol.com/download

241449 Zak Thelotofem, 6, #1084 of 1790 🔗

*Just released* – Beyond Crucial Update (Ivor Cummins)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mboEkVl9ooc

241451 jb12, replying to jb12, 1, #1085 of 1790 🔗

I wonder if anyone can help me. I remember there being a bit said about the government talking specifically about PCR cycles and the test’s efficacy, but I can’t find the website/document now. Does anyone have it to hand?

241488 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Anothersceptic2, #1087 of 1790 🔗

That’s a fascinating document for the way it obfuscates the question of the relationship between Ct thresholds and actual infectivity and illness,

241492 ▶▶▶▶ jb12, replying to RickH, #1088 of 1790 🔗

Yes, but it is enough for me that they have admitted that without ‘clinical context’, the test is not fit for the purpose it has been assigned.

241490 ▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Anothersceptic2, #1089 of 1790 🔗

Thank you!

241458 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 6, #1090 of 1790 🔗

American election

AG Barr Authorizes Federal Prosecutors to Pursue “Substantial Allegations” of Voting Irregularities Before 2020 Election is Certified
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/breaking-ag-barr-authorizes-federal-prosecutors-pursue-substantial-allegations-voting-irregularities-2020-election-certified/

CYBER COUP: Investigation underway – Dominion Voting Systems (with ties to high level Democrats) repeatedly glitched in favor of Biden

Texas Senator Ted Cruz is calling for a country-wide investigation into the voting machine software that glitched in Michigan. In Antrim county Michigan, election officials observed a software glitch that flipped a county that Trump led and handed it over to Biden. More than 5,000 votes were incorrectly tabulated for Joe Biden in just that one glitch. Another 47 Michigan counties used the software.

https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-10-dominion-voting-systems-glitched-in-bidens-favor.html

241476 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Victoria, #1091 of 1790 🔗

This channel has had some interesting coverage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mrng2w41prY

The media and big tech have clearly decided they fancy a change so I guess it is decided, maybe it is just rigged to some degree every election. Got to keep the population divided so they are easier to rule.

241540 ▶▶ Gladiatrix, replying to Victoria, -1, #1092 of 1790 🔗

Well yes, but the clerk’s in Michigan spotted the problem and fixed it immediately. It was actually caused by one of them misconfiguring the ballot paper, preventing the software from matching it up. The problem was human error not a software issue.

241542 ▶▶▶ Gladiatrix, replying to Gladiatrix, #1093 of 1790 🔗

Grrr, clerks not clerk’s.

241690 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Gladiatrix, 1, #1094 of 1790 🔗

Apparently, it’s not just one clerk in one county.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/breaking-exclusive-analysis-election-night-data-states-shows-millions-votes-either-switched-president-trump-biden-lost/
“BREAKING EXCLUSIVE: Analysis of Election Night Data from All States Shows MILLIONS OF VOTES Either Switched from President Trump to Biden or Were Lost — Using Dominion and Other Systems”

This is not confirmed, so may not be correct.

What is fairly obvious is that all the mistakes and glitches all seem to have gone one way…..

241459 Arnie, replying to Arnie, 49, #1095 of 1790 🔗

I’ve been out ‘essential’ Christmas shopping with teen child today. I really didn’t want to go…

Massive traffic jams, totally back to normal. 99%+ no masks outside anywhere.

Got to the shops, no door staff anywhere. Most shops only had about 75% mask compliance, it was great to see quite a number of young people going without masks.

Got talking to a manager of a large store, think it was Home Bargains or something. I asked if she was busy, she said yes same levels as last year.

I asked her about the lockdown affecting business and she said ‘Well this one isn’t a proper lockdown is it? This is what a lot of the customers are saying. That and I think everybody can smell a rat, the numbers just don’t add up. Nobody that we know has actually had the virus…’

Quite.

241465 ▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to Arnie, 19, #1096 of 1790 🔗

encouraging to hear. I did my first trip to the supermarket yesterday without a mask and was slightly hesitant but when the woman before me went in without 1 on I just followed and no-one said anything to me.

241472 ▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to Anothersceptic2, 7, #1097 of 1790 🔗

Good for you AnitherSceptic2! Every journey starts with the first step. We are all growing in our strength and knowledge to fight this insanity.
Arnie.

241573 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Anothersceptic2, 1, #1098 of 1790 🔗

Easy, isn’t it.

241675 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Anothersceptic2, 2, #1099 of 1790 🔗

Well done! Once you’ve done it, you become more confident and it becomes second nature.

Definitely I’m seeing less and less shop staff wearing them.

241474 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Arnie, 4, #1100 of 1790 🔗

Fantastic to hear.

241460 Recusant, replying to Recusant, 4, #1101 of 1790 🔗

I am glad that there is a vaccine on the horizon, that is good, but have they tested what happens if it isn’t kept at the recommended temperature of the surface of Neptune? Do you turn into the Incredible Hulk? Because I think it very likely that someone, somewhere is going to let it melt.

241526 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Recusant, 2, #1102 of 1790 🔗

A lot of sceptics seem to be feeling that way, but it’s not a feeling I can share, myself.

Granted it might mean a way out of the current miasma of lockdown self-harm, although I’d say it’s doubtful myself. but what it will do is allow a myth of victory to be created and sustained by the establishment whereby it will be generally accepted that lockdowns kept us alive until the vaccine was available, and the only valid grounds for debate will be “fast enough?”, “hard enough?” and “efficiently run?”. Questions of cost will be dismissed as “putting money ahead of lives”.

That’s all transparent nonsense of course, but not transparent enough to stop it being used by a dominant and broadly unified establishment.

And that means of course that lockdowns become a part of the standard public health toolkit, forever.

Myself, I’d rather these vaccines never manifest and lockdowns are allowed to continue until thoroughly and incontrovertibly discredited (pretty close now, were it not for the vaccine cavalry appearing on the hilltops). Short term pain for long term gain.

241682 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Recusant, #1103 of 1790 🔗

Minus 70 or 80 C freezers are not easy to come by. They are very expensive (£thousands), and usually need to be monitored to ensure the temperature is maintained. That’s not something GP surgeries will be able to afford.
They’re usually used in laboratory settings.

241771 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Lms23, #1104 of 1790 🔗

Freezers at that temperature are dangerous too, so all these staff members that will use them will have to be trained and provided with protective equipment to be able to move the vials.

I wouldn’t think they’d work on standard mains either and will eat up a fair amount of electricity.

242077 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to JohnB, #1105 of 1790 🔗

But we’ve been told that nurses, pharmacists, basically any TomDickandHarry, willbe empowered to administer the vaccine. Will they also be empowered to defrost it?
‘Hey, Tom, we’re running short, just put the next batch in the microwave.’

242078 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to JohnB, #1106 of 1790 🔗

But we’ve been told that nurses, pharmacists, basically any TomDickandHarry, will be empowered to administer the vaccine. Will they also be empowered to defrost it?
‘Hey, Tom, we’re running short, just put the next batch in the microwave.’

241462 microdave, replying to microdave, 6, #1107 of 1790 🔗

This is well worth 20 minutes of your time:

The Covid Cult ~ Thomas E. Woods, Jr

https://youtu.be/mcm8Sc8f66o

241539 ▶▶ kf99, replying to microdave, 2, #1108 of 1790 🔗

It’s superb. Possibly the greatest sceptic spokesman we have. Note this is new – 9th Nov.

241586 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to microdave, #1109 of 1790 🔗

Brilliant – you can watch at double speed if pushed for time.

241463 Peter Ranger, replying to Peter Ranger, 7, #1110 of 1790 🔗

If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels

241529 ▶▶ annie, replying to Peter Ranger, 2, #1111 of 1790 🔗

I think the shield is wearing thin in places.

241471 Roadrash, replying to Roadrash, 8, #1112 of 1790 🔗

The mass testing in Liverpool is not positive news. Covid positive test were running at just over 200 per 100k of population. These figures now push that up to 700 per 100k. So what if they are false positives. It’s doing exactly what we said it would and keeping the numbers inflated. Most of the positives are now being found in school kids. So they have their education disrupted further along with their ‘bubbles’. More teachers stay off. More working parents have to stay off to look after their kids or also self isolate. Roll this out nationally and imagine the new chaos. So sorry we need to push back against this as it is still a terrible idea.

241477 ▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to Roadrash, 4, #1113 of 1790 🔗

people will just stop getting tested though hopefully once we realise what it leads to. It’s literally criminal at this point that they are using tests that they know full well cannot be used for this purpose. I don’t understand why the media are purposefully ignoring this fact and helping the government with their agenda.

241481 ▶▶ PaulParanoia, replying to Roadrash, #1114 of 1790 🔗

ONS was saying 2,200 per 100K at the end of last week.

241485 ▶▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to PaulParanoia, 2, #1115 of 1790 🔗

case numbers have been falling consistently since the middle of October as well.

241486 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Roadrash, 1, #1116 of 1790 🔗

Are still people turning up in their droves to be tested in Liverpoool, though? My impression was that this was not the case but maybe that was wishful thinking!

I agree that it’s a terrible idea, but the impact will be less terrible if they don’t get the volunteers that they were counting on.

241498 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Roadrash, 1, #1117 of 1790 🔗
241549 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Roadrash, 1, #1118 of 1790 🔗

Are people letting their kids get tested at school?!

241487 Ceriain, replying to Ceriain, 16, #1119 of 1790 🔗

Hey all. 🙂

Not going to be about for a few days; I’m sure you’ll all miss my ‘London has herd immunity’ cries and my dull stats/graphs. Be back on Monday to start all over again, though. 😉

Anyway, a question for you all:

Obviously, the Gov, the MSM, and nutters like Mrs Mills/SAGE will continue to brand individuals and groups like us who are ‘wary’ of the Covid vaccine as anti-vaxxers (clearly not true, of course).

Noting Malcolm Kendrick’s piece, and the comments I see from the medical people who are members here, (GPs, nurses and others) regarding the vaccine, I’m just wondering if members here think that we could see mass signed letters from GP groups and other medical professionals, urging caution with regard to the vaccine (similar to those we have seen all over the world warning of the damage from lockdowns).

I’m also wondering what people think the Government’s reaction will be, should they get such lobbying. Will they dismiss the authors in the same way they have with the likes of those who wrote and signed the GBD?

I’m sure there will be many GPs out there who will not want to give this vaccine to their most vulnerable patients under any circumstances.

Keen to read your thoughts, all.

See you next week.

C 🙂

241502 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Ceriain, 8, #1120 of 1790 🔗

Ceriain, as I have said on here several times, there is an onus on senior medical staff in hospitals (doctors and nurses) to break their silence, do press conferences in their scrubs and tell it as it is. Are they really prepared to take this vaccine themselves. Suspect not. However, before their turn, some poor young minimum wage carer and their 90 year-old charge will be in line, with very little choice. Time for them to stand up in the interests of humanity and their country.

241503 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Ceriain, 6, #1121 of 1790 🔗

Will be interesting to see what the response is, but it’s worth bearing in mind that “anti-vaxx” is a hot button with most of the medical professions – it has been thoroughly demonised and has for a long time been dangerous to be associated with, career-wise and reputation-wise. Doubly so, today, of course, when jobs have been lost merely for being a lockdown sceptic.

241525 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Mark, 3, #1122 of 1790 🔗

It’s a disgusting slur. Easy to resolve, though, by all those casting aspersions – take the vaccine yourself, along with your nearest and dearest, right now, and promote your virtue for the rest of us to witness over the coming months. You will shine in Heaven!

241547 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 7, #1123 of 1790 🔗

In correspondence with an ex-acquaintance/friend from the senior echelons of public health, he referred to people who would oppose a vaccine as “those who think they know better”. These technocrats HATE IT when people question them, and sincerely believe they know better, just like Michael Wendling and his friends at the BBC. God forbid that anyone should think for themselves. So much of this nonsense has been aided and abetted by people in middling positions of power and above using it as a cover for imposing their views on the great unwashed.

241628 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Julian, 1, #1124 of 1790 🔗

This is a very good point, Julian.

Arrogance has a lot to answer for, which is why humility needs to be continuous.

241676 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Julian, 1, #1125 of 1790 🔗

Most people are not anti vaccine, but they are suspicious of a vaccine that’s been produced in record time, with a non-existent track record, using a novel method, with unknown side effects.

Plus: Why are the PTB so desperate for everyone to be vaccinated against a virus with such a high survival rate?

241595 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Ceriain, #1126 of 1790 🔗

Yes, I think they would dismiss any dissent GBD-style. It’s the only move they know how to play.

I suspect that despite the hysteria of the media yesterday, we are still a long way off from any vaccine being delivered (regardless of whether it is effective in any meaningful way). I think GPs would probably bide their time if they are feeling uneasy, rather than drawing attention to themselves by highlighting concerns that might be resolved in the coming months. I don’t imagine many would be willing to fall on their swords without a great deal more information about the vax being available to them.

241489 Ian, replying to Ian, 1, #1127 of 1790 🔗

According to The Spectator the ‘nudge unit’ are suggesting that people who test negative for Coronavirus may be given a certificate or wristband to show that they are free of the disease……….

241494 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Ian, 9, #1128 of 1790 🔗

That bunch of Goebbels disciples are the ones who need to be quarantined in isolation.

241495 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Ian, 4, #1129 of 1790 🔗

does the certificate burst into flames after a day?

241496 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Ian, 3, #1130 of 1790 🔗

Beyond ridiculous given that they could catch it a minute after they leave the testing centre

A wristband for the vaccinated though….

241497 ▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to Ian, 3, #1131 of 1790 🔗

why not go the whole hog and give them a star on their arm…

241499 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Ian, 1, #1132 of 1790 🔗

Hopefully The Spectator are condemning this, they have been pretty poor on the whole for a centre right publication. Don’t seem particularly concerned about civil rights and liberties.

241500 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Ian, 2, #1133 of 1790 🔗

And for the ones who test positive or no test something like a Star

241544 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ian, #1134 of 1790 🔗

Like the DT piece yesterday suggesting three months’ freedom passes would be a good idea…….
Episode two is definitely starting and gaining traction.

241619 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cheezilla, #1135 of 1790 🔗

I’d suggest episode 6 or 7 at least, but agree with the idea.

241570 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Ian, #1136 of 1790 🔗

Softening us all up for the health ID/passport.

241621 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to DRW, #1137 of 1790 🔗

Pre-programming certainly.

I’d suggest practising with throwing knives, rather than getting softer, mind. 🙂

241501 Ewan Duffy, 1, #1138 of 1790 🔗

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1111/1177455-covid-reinfection/

RTE peddling the 2 to 6 month immunity scare story. No reference to T cell immunity.

241504 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #1139 of 1790 🔗

I would like Johnson to tell us the truth, because it’s obviously NOT about a low mortality virus. Does he think we wouldn’t be strong enough to take it?

241513 ▶▶ annie, replying to Dan Clarke, 5, #1140 of 1790 🔗

No, he’s not strong enough to give it.

241517 ▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #1141 of 1790 🔗

unfortunately it’ll be years until the full truth is properly reported on

241521 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #1142 of 1790 🔗

If he tells the truth he loses control completely.

241532 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #1143 of 1790 🔗

Not going to happen! They are actively strategising on how to lie to us – they even have a specialist organisation that do that for them.

This includes PsyOps on how to increase the fear in the population (i.e make them wear masks), how to ostracise people if they do not follow the rules (label them i.e conspiracy theorists), how to mess with their brains (i.e if you wear a mask you are protecting grannie – I still want to understand how anyone can believe that – how would that work practically), etc.

241537 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Dan Clarke, #1144 of 1790 🔗

Most people wouldn’t be!

241505 Alethea, replying to Alethea, 19, #1145 of 1790 🔗

Who are the mask-wearers?

  1. The superstitious. A pre-modern position. In fear of death, or the devil, these people clutch their lucky charms, throw spilled salt over their shoulders and wishfully detoxify the arrival of magpies and letters with counting rhymes. The purpose of the mask is to protect the wearer from a terrible darkness, an overwhelming unknowable force of annihilation.
  2. Latterday citizens of imperial Rome. Roman religion is coterminous with the state, so that the public fulfilment of religious rites and duties instantiates the subject’s civic virtue. Actual belief in the deities to whom one signals obeisance is neither required nor affected; belief in the virtue of the state, on the other hand, and in the merit of one’s support for it, are fully authentic, even passionate. The purpose of wearing the mask is to register the wearer’s value within the polis.
  3. Repressed sado-masochists, whose fantasy of dominance and submission has rarely before been invited to play itself out in the public sphere. These people probably do not have exciting sex lives in bondage clubs etc; if they did, they might not be relishing the opportunity to articulate this desire under cover of a public health emergency surrounded by civilians who largely do not share their deep erotic gratification in the scene. The mask is a prop in a performance: a theatrical token of submission that powerfully enables sexual disinhibition.
  4. Victims of historically asymmetric patterns of social/specular attention who sense the opportunity for passive-aggressive revenge. I have come across a couple of articulations of this position in pseudo-feminist guise. ‘Why should women have to be looked at? Why should they have to wear make-up? I love my mask, because it means that nobody can see my face!’ The mask is a technology of social withdrawal, of purposeful vindictive self-withholding.
  5. ‘Children.’ These people – perhaps the majority? – wear a mask because their parents, the state, has told them to. They obey in part because they love their parents and in part because they are afraid of them. The state is infinitely more powerful than the individual subject: it can protect us and nurture us, or punish us and withhold the things we need. ‘Children’ don’t like wearing a mask, or perceive any intrinsic value in it, but they accept the injunction to comply, as they accept having to do homework or be bored on long journeys or forgive their parents’ mistakes and faults.
241523 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Alethea, #1146 of 1790 🔗

Brian Blessed on Julia Hartley Brewer was pushing https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/brian-blessed-wear-bloody-mask-coronavirus-campaign-161831955.html
JHB said it really annoyed her when people on the tube were “unface- nappied” (maybe I misheard that bit) . No mention of exemptions.

241527 ▶▶ annie, replying to Alethea, 7, #1147 of 1790 🔗

Brilliant. But in fairness, I think you need to add those who loathe the foul thing, but have to wear it or they lose their job; and those hypocrites who enjoy the feelng of superiority that ‘protecting others’ offers, together with the entitlement to bully non-conformists. Moral sadists, if you like.

241535 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to annie, 9, #1148 of 1790 🔗

I think the largest group is the compliant, who are used to doing as they are told, for an easy life/peer pressure

241541 ▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to annie, 5, #1149 of 1790 🔗

You’re right. I should have said, ‘Outside work, who are the mask-wearers?’ I completely sympathise with people whose jobs require it: I am fortunate that in my job my exemption is accepted.

241565 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Alethea, 7, #1150 of 1790 🔗

Great post. The psychology of mask wearing is something I find fascinating.

A couple of weeks ago, in the last of the really nice sunny, warm weather, there was an open-top vintage sports car out in the lanes near here, two middle aged men in it, and the driver wearing a mask: driving along 30-40 mph, open air, wearing a mask.

The only reason he’s doing that is because, for whatever reason, he likes wearing a mask.

I do think some of the mask wearers are SAS wannabes.

God I HATE masks. What does that say about me??

241589 ▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to TJN, 7, #1151 of 1790 🔗

Or as the meme I saw the other day went: I can only assume that the only reason you wear a mask when driving is to stop you licking the window.

241650 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to TJN, 2, #1152 of 1790 🔗

Perhaps he wore the mask to avoid swallowing insects….

242063 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to TJN, 1, #1153 of 1790 🔗

What does it say about you?
It says you are human.

241611 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Alethea, 2, #1154 of 1790 🔗

Very good analysis. You missed out superheroes and bank robbers though. 🙂

241667 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Alethea, 4, #1155 of 1790 🔗

Excellent analysis! There’s also the exhibitionists who like to post selfies of themselves wearing masks in “cute” patterns and fabrics because they think they look good and feel all the more virtuous in them.

241506 Darryl, replying to Darryl, 7, #1156 of 1790 🔗

Recommend listening to the latest James Delingpole interview with Laura Perrins of Conservative Women. They don’t hold back! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cABqG-BO9k8

…mother, barrister, co-editor of Conservative Woman – gives it both barrels on the subject of the lockdown and Boris Johnson’s useless regime…

241515 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Darryl, 4, #1157 of 1790 🔗

She’s very good.

241508 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #1158 of 1790 🔗

The antivaxxer label: does anyone know of anyone who is trying to make vaccinations illegal/unavailable?

241518 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Steve Hayes, 9, #1159 of 1790 🔗

It’s another propaganda term.

Admittedly, there are some on the fringe who promote the idea that all vaccinations are harmful. But I can’t say that I’ve come across many.

There are a lot of sane people, however, who argue that the Pharmaceutical industry over-promotes the significance of vaccines, and that, as with all medicines, due caution needs to be applied to new concoctions that have not been thoroughly tested.

241606 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to RickH, 1, #1160 of 1790 🔗

You seem to be in full ‘establishment are good’ mode today, Rick.

There are many sane people who will inform/educate/assist you to see that all vaccinations are harmful. (Maybe occasional cocaine use … but I digress. 🙂 ).

‘Everyone knows’ is just not a good enough reason to trust the likes of Gates/Johnson/Vallance/Whitty/etc. It’s certainly worth perusing all of Jon Rappoport’s writings on vaccines.

241854 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to RickH, #1161 of 1790 🔗

Over-prescription of antibiotics, in particular, is recognised as a problem even in mainstream medical circles.

241509 RickH, replying to RickH, 24, #1162 of 1790 🔗

The trouble with contesting all the detail is that the basic fact gets lost :

There is no evidence after 7-8 months that SARS-CoV-2 presents any significant threat beyond the normal run of viruses.

241516 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to RickH, 6, #1163 of 1790 🔗

Average age of coronavirus related deaths is over eighty. Life expectancy is under eighty. The virus is having zero effect on mortality.

241510 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 14, #1164 of 1790 🔗

Sorry if already posted. As ever, follow the money. For anyone who has knowledge of the stock market, this is highly significant:

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/pfizer-ceo-sold-stock-day-covid-19-vaccine-results-unveiled-2020-11-1029790705

Thanks to my 18 year-old son who alerted me to this over lunchtime!

241740 ▶▶ dommo, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1165 of 1790 🔗

could you spell out the implications for a dimwit (me)?

241757 ▶▶▶ Marialta, replying to dommo, #1166 of 1790 🔗

‘Insider trading’

241511 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 17, #1167 of 1790 🔗

Just been watching “Berlin 1945” on television and it put me in mind of the present situation.
Our leaders and their collaborators urging the people to “fight on” although they know that the “game is up” and their boneheaded stubbornness is causing national bankruptcy, ruined lives, suicide and untold misery.
Like the fanatical Nazis of Berlin, they believe that the majority of the people support them and are following their ridiculous rules.
Surely, apart from the fanatical followers of this discredited government, the tide is flowing stronger by the day in our direction.

241587 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #1168 of 1790 🔗

me too..
not just urging people to fight on.. shooting them if they wont. showed a man hung from a lamppost for criticising the regime – in the last few days before the russians arrived and knowing that it was all over .

241588 ▶▶ rose, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1169 of 1790 🔗

Anyone watched the film Alone in Berlin? A couple’s lone crusade against the Nazis. I recommend any comedy film instead though if already feeling down

241652 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to rose, 1, #1170 of 1790 🔗

I’ve read the book, many sad parallels with today- mainly the snitches and collaborators.

241519 Berol, #1171 of 1790 🔗

Worrying

Description of the procurement: The MHRA urgently seeks an Artificial Intelligence (AI) software tool to process the expected high volume of Covid-19 vaccine Adverse Drug Reaction (ADRs) and ensure that no details from the ADRs’ reaction text are missed.”

https://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:506291-2020:TEXT:EN:HTML&src=0

241520 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #1172 of 1790 🔗

OMG the big green flag is even worse now!

241531 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1173 of 1790 🔗

My green banner has gone, but I’ve now got two neat rows of postage stamp ads at the bottom of Toby’s post!

241545 ▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to bluemoon, 2, #1174 of 1790 🔗

Me too. I don’t particularly like the ads but they’re probably generating more funding for the site so fair enough.

241551 ▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 1, #1175 of 1790 🔗

Absolutely GWKC, and they’re easy enough to avoid.

241538 GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 7, #1176 of 1790 🔗

Woe betide anyone getting complacent after the news of the vaccine. The BBC are back in full blown fear mongering mode to keep the proles in line with a headline stating U.K. deaths are now over 50,000. If I was at all cynical I would think this is more than a coincidence.

241546 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 3, #1177 of 1790 🔗

If was a cynic i’d say that big number is actually f all when put in perspective.

241548 ▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to JHuntz, 2, #1178 of 1790 🔗

Indeed.

241559 ▶▶ Liam, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 7, #1179 of 1790 🔗

One standard month’s worth of normal deaths then.

241584 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Liam, 3, #1180 of 1790 🔗

…. or about 1/10th of the normal cumulative deaths to October. …, anyway. and a highly suspect figure

What a disaster!

241646 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to RickH, 1, #1181 of 1790 🔗

And still only about the 20th largest cause of death this year.

241607 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 2, #1182 of 1790 🔗

Some figures to give perspective;

164,901 cancer deaths in the U.K. from 2015-17 (source Cancer Research)

167,000 deaths each year in the U.K. from heart and circulatory disease (source BHF)

There are more than 100,000 strokes in the U.K. each year causing 38,000 deaths. (Source NICE)

241644 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 1, #1183 of 1790 🔗

Funny how the “News” channels never graph those though!

241543 Thomas_E, replying to Thomas_E, 71, #1184 of 1790 🔗

Went for a little shopping to Borough Market and my first stoop was the Ginger Pig butchery. I go to the counter , say hello , the reply is : Hey, you, put a mask on now! I got taken back a little and said I’m exempt. The reply is: I do not care, put a mask on like a normal person and don’t be difficult. ok, it tried to be polite and said I have medical issue. Reply was : SO do I and my wife and we still wear masks , now go and put your mask on now!! My reply was Please, fuck off you fucking piece of shit. Who do you think you are!

I then went to another butchery where I had a pleasant exchange with the 2 young men who turned out were both sceptics..

The fact that a man who’s livelihood depends on my custom think he has the right to accost me like that is the real sign of times. This will get worse before violence …Btw I would normally never shame a business but fuck Ginger Pig, avoid at all cost.

241553 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Thomas_E, 11, #1185 of 1790 🔗

nice…
no really, these fools need to get treated like this. No quarter. Idiots.

241556 ▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to Thomas_E, 20, #1186 of 1790 🔗

It’s the “like a normal person” bit that would have boiled my piss faster than nuclear fusion. They are clearly not desperate for the business. I’d have told him to fuck off too if it’s any consolation.

Is it this bunch of fucksticks? https://www.facebook.com/TheGingerPig/ leave them a bad review, you can find them on Google as well 😉

241640 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to The Filthy Engineer, 4, #1187 of 1790 🔗

Me too. Well done Thomas!
Or, as we say round here: Gerrim telled!

241837 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to The Filthy Engineer, 5, #1188 of 1790 🔗

Done. I gave a “no” to the question “would I recommend them?”. The next question was “How can we improve?”, to which I replied “Basic politeness to customers would help”.

241557 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Thomas_E, 6, #1189 of 1790 🔗

“normal person”

241563 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Thomas_E, 19, #1190 of 1790 🔗

Think you were quite calm in the circumstances.

Around my way, it sadly seems that many independent business have decided to go full mask, with aggressive signage to match. It’s only driven me to the big boys, who have made it perfectly clear that I won’t be accosted on their premises whilst also performing the almost obligatory virtue signalling. Some smaller outfits could learn a lot from them about maximising their customer base.

241569 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 12, #1191 of 1790 🔗

This is a local shop for local people, there is nothing for you here!

241846 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Two-Six, 4, #1192 of 1790 🔗

“We don’t like strangers in this town.”

241575 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 7, #1193 of 1790 🔗

So true. For the first time ever I now do most of my shopping online

241741 ▶▶▶ Marialta, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 4, #1194 of 1790 🔗

Try your corner shop/small convenience store – in my town they tend not to bother about masks.

241577 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Thomas_E, 12, #1195 of 1790 🔗

£4 for a sausage roll !! think of the money you have saved being banned from such a posey and expensive chain.

241591 ▶▶ Masqueless, replying to Thomas_E, 10, #1196 of 1790 🔗

Totally agree with your reaction – gotta stop supporting the afraid (including the chains with their tiresome corporate protect others messages) and support all those businesses who stay sensible. Takes effort I know but truth will win out.

241661 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Masqueless, 5, #1197 of 1790 🔗

The afraid seem to have a death wish and we should vote with out feet and wallets to give them their heart’s desire.

Shan’t shed any tears if and when they go bust.

241633 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Thomas_E, 7, #1198 of 1790 🔗

Your reply really cheered me up. Often, we leave heated arguments and afterwards think I wish I’d said this or that. Not the case on this occasion Thomas. Well done!

241658 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Thomas_E, 3, #1199 of 1790 🔗

Well done you. Had roughly the same incident with Meat NW5 a few weeks’ back which was a shock as they’re normally nice & welcoming but after my run in with them, its Never Again from me.

I shall take your advice and avoid Ginger Pig. Have walked past them before and I need to take out a mortgage to afford their food.

Have found an online butcher and would rather shop with them now.

241680 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Thomas_E, 3, #1200 of 1790 🔗

I’m pretty tolerant over people being brainwashed – but that’s beyond the pale. They don’t deserve to survive economically.

241743 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Thomas_E, 3, #1201 of 1790 🔗

sounds more like the fascist pig!

241554 Richard, replying to Richard, 2, #1202 of 1790 🔗

O

241555 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Richard, #1203 of 1790 🔗

Oh so eloquent?

241955 ▶▶ Doodle, replying to Richard, #1204 of 1790 🔗

O ‘ why dost my heart skip a beat
to see bozo a hanging by his feet
o’er a pit of roaring fire
I’ll happily sate my ire
to the smell of pork cracklin’ meat.

?

241561 Silke David, replying to Silke David, 6, #1205 of 1790 🔗

The Tesco advert, right at the end the cashier and customer are talking Blablala. they cannot understand each other and resolve to pointing as they are both wearing a mask.
Pure comedy!

241562 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Silke David, 9, #1206 of 1790 🔗

pure mind fuckery. Bastards.

241592 ▶▶▶ awildgoose, replying to Two-Six, 7, #1207 of 1790 🔗

The ad makers are masters of propaganda and brainwashing, so it makes perfect sense they would make an ad that attempts to use humor to brainwash people with the idea that masks are, “normal, ” and, “amusing.”

241605 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Silke David, 4, #1208 of 1790 🔗

Add Tesco to the list

241564 Liam, replying to Liam, 53, #1209 of 1790 🔗

Is anyone else finding that working men and tradesmen – plumbers, glazers, installers, roofers etc – are pretty much unanimous that this is bollocks?

241566 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Liam, 8, #1210 of 1790 🔗

YES.

241572 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Liam, 8, #1211 of 1790 🔗

Yes

241579 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Liam, 12, #1212 of 1790 🔗

It’s people who see the world through a screen, who have been taken in the most.

241635 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to calchas, 6, #1213 of 1790 🔗

‘Cos those who see the real world know we’re not tripping over dead bodies in the street.

241580 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Liam, 23, #1214 of 1790 🔗

Yes, and have been from the start. The people keeping this show on the road are public sector employees (honourable exceptions, of course), middle class metropolitan women in charities, working in media/journalism, and married to ‘important’ men, and other assorted hangers on.

241596 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Tyneside Tigress, 8, #1215 of 1790 🔗

Those who can “work from home”?

241638 ▶▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Fingerache Philip., 8, #1216 of 1790 🔗

It’s not those working from home to blame.

No one is to blame except Johnson’s Government. That’s where the Buck stops.

241687 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Leemc23, 4, #1217 of 1790 🔗

Agreed, no insult to genuine home workers but you and I know, LC23 that there are some out there who are “milking this” situation.

241655 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #1218 of 1790 🔗

They’re the ones who have large homes & gardens in Belgravia or in the shires.

Sitting on top of large savings, pensions, trust funds and inheritance from daddy & mummy.

They’re not being affected at the moment….yet!

They’ll soon change their tune when economic reality smacks them in the face.

241583 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Liam, 3, #1219 of 1790 🔗

Yes, their use to seeing through government bollocks.

241585 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Liam, 6, #1220 of 1790 🔗

Yes although I’m neither and I know it’s big hairy bollocks

241599 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Liam, 8, #1221 of 1790 🔗

Yes, all are working here. Two houses being done up where I live, they are just getting on with the work, no distancing. Lots of construction workers too.

241601 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Liam, 8, #1222 of 1790 🔗

Almost every single one I have spoken to, yes, and probably one could widen it to include a lot of other categories of worker who are out and about a lot – I was watching some fellers digging holes in the road the other day with envy – I imagine their working lives have hardly been affected by this rubbish

241615 ▶▶▶ Liam, replying to Julian, 7, #1223 of 1790 🔗

If these lads could all get together properly in the pub or at the football and talk about it this would collapse overnight.

241659 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Liam, 6, #1224 of 1790 🔗

One of many reasons why such gatherings are being prevented at all costs

241707 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Liam, 2, #1225 of 1790 🔗

Perish the thought, covering faces and ordering people to stay indoors, it’s all about the (behavioural) science

241630 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Liam, 3, #1226 of 1790 🔗

Definitely!

241634 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Liam, 6, #1227 of 1790 🔗

Yes, I wonder if part of it is that their jobs involve more risk so they just get on with it.

241636 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Liam, 5, #1228 of 1790 🔗

So far, absolutely.
Not a mask in sight.

241637 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to Liam, 9, #1229 of 1790 🔗

White van man always saves the day. They may be derided by the political elite but always talk common sense. Round my way, judging from the traffic, they are all getting on with life.

241653 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Liam, 6, #1230 of 1790 🔗

Agree with this. The guy who fixed out blinds back in April was already a sceptic and thought that the death figures were being inflated to justify the lockdown.

241694 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to Liam, 1, #1231 of 1790 🔗

Yep, 100% so far.

241696 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Liam, 1, #1232 of 1790 🔗

100% here. Sample of around 10.

241706 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to Liam, 3, #1233 of 1790 🔗

Yes. I’ve had about eight in my house, since about May.

241751 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Now More Than Ever, #1234 of 1790 🔗

Wow, that must have cost you quite a bit, in terms of food & beer ?!

241708 ▶▶ Christopher, replying to Liam, 8, #1235 of 1790 🔗

As a Tradesmen myself ( Electrician ) I can confirm that most of the other lads on various sites I have been to around London and the south east think this is all bollocks and that goes for all the trades pretty much . That said a large proportion of them did buy into the hoax early on , strangely though that didn’t stop them working throughout the mass hysteria and shut down .

241812 ▶▶ Lydia, replying to Liam, 2, #1236 of 1790 🔗

Yes! I’ve just been having this discussion with my husband about tradesmen and how many have been doing work for us since April. We started an extension in April and on one day we had every single tradesperson you could think of on our garden working, none wearing a mask.

The reason we were taking about this is because we have a new sofa being delivered by DFS tomorrow and they’ve asked if we would wear a mask and stay 2m away preferably in another room! I asked my husband what he’ll say if they ask him to wear a mask to which he replied I’ll put my balaclava on!

241865 ▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Liam, 4, #1237 of 1790 🔗

I have been working throughout this nonsense in any client’s home that wants me to attend (IT Technician). Out of all the clients I have (every single one older than 60 yrs), only one doesn’t want me to come round, and only one other actually wants me to wear a mask (which I do, just because it’s his home).

It’s foul and I can’t wait to get out of his home. I don’t wear one anywhere like shops. I take the greatest pleasure in waltzing into shops and I glare at anyone who attempts to challenge me. It does help that they can see that I won’t tolerate any physical challenge to my refusal to wear a stupid mask.

241878 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to RichardJames, 1, #1238 of 1790 🔗

I do what you do and I have lost at least 3 or 4 customers when I have had to explicitly ask them NOT to wear a mask when they bring their laptop/pc over to me to sort out for them.
Every time I just can’t believe I am asking them NOT TO WEAR A MASK. Insane.
Ah well.

241995 ▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to Liam, #1239 of 1790 🔗

Apart from one, yes. But he had a wife with cancer and was worried about passing it on.

241567 John Stone, replying to John Stone, 2, #1240 of 1790 🔗

Pfizer boss unloaded 5.6m dollars of stock on day of announcement

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/covid-19-vaccine-news/

241759 ▶▶ guy153, replying to John Stone, 1, #1241 of 1790 🔗

I heard this doesn’t count as insider trading because he set the date when he would sell the stock a month or ago. But he knew when he was going to make the announcement. Perhaps a small gamble that the vaccine would actually work but it was very unlikely not to.

241568 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 16, #1242 of 1790 🔗

In other words. there was an error in the spreadsheet:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8937851/Cambridge-University-DROPS-estimate-daily-coronavirus-cases-England-64-000.html

‘Cambridge experts behind gloomy 4,000 deaths a day projection DROP their estimate and say Covid fatalities will stay around 600 per day in next fortnight’

241594 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 10, #1243 of 1790 🔗

“Experts” in what? Lies?

241614 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 10, #1244 of 1790 🔗

Oh, well that’s all right then. It’s not as if anyone overreacted to the stupid figure they gave in the first place. No harm done. No need to even report the correction. I’m sure the BBC won’t waste its time devoting twenty minutes out of every hour wittering on about it having been wrong all the time.

241649 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #1245 of 1790 🔗

Jesus wept. And we locked down because of this?

Someone really has to carry the can for this. Tower Hill will be overflowing with people in line to be shot or hanged.

241688 ▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #1246 of 1790 🔗

I’ll bring the rope…

241786 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Arnie, #1247 of 1790 🔗

We’ll need loads.

241761 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #1248 of 1790 🔗

I think we could all have about five personal nominations and still keep growing the list.

241785 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to DRW, 1, #1249 of 1790 🔗

The list will be exponentially long….

241651 ▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1250 of 1790 🔗

How many deaths a day from respiratory disease are average in autumn?

241879 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cheshirecatslave, #1251 of 1790 🔗

450 at a guess…1500 a day on average every day shuffle of the coil

241660 ▶▶ Will, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #1252 of 1790 🔗

“Stay” around 600? They haven’t hit 350 going by date of death rather than reporting date.

241755 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Will, #1253 of 1790 🔗

Claire Craig recently posted this graph:
https://twitter.com/ClareCraigPath/status/1326560345914216448?s=09

And in the same thread someone posted a similar one for the whole of Europe.

Either people have miraculously stopped dying of anything else or we’re just calling more deaths Covid (due to more testing including quite a lot of false positives).

There are a few real Covid deaths going on but probably less than half the official number and it has already peaked.

241664 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1254 of 1790 🔗

So if justification for the lockdown was based on the over-inflated 4000, and it has now been scaled down, how come the lockdown hasn’t been suspended.

241691 ▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to Nsklent, 2, #1255 of 1790 🔗

Because this is nothing to do with a virus…

242050 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nsklent, #1256 of 1790 🔗

Because they’ve fallen back on the sum total of all (alleged) Covviedeaths, which is now (allegedly) over 50,000. Ooooh, scary.
Of course, nobody died – sorry, sadlidied – of anything except Covvie during the period in question.

241674 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #1257 of 1790 🔗

I don’t do ‘daily’ deaths – it’s too narrow a time-frame.

But this simple analyst of the data (‘expert’???) suggests that Week 50-52 will see 12-13k all-cause deaths per week. Which works out at about 1700 all-cause deaths per day.

This will be nothing above the ordinary (way to go for it to be so) – and any additional viral activity will push up that number. Forget the purely speculative ‘Covid’ numbers – they’re pure fiction.

Horse backed. It’s on record. How will it compare with a ‘Ferguson’ or the ‘Cambridge’ model?

241732 ▶▶ dommo, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1258 of 1790 🔗

they must be punished for their gross negligence!

241774 ▶▶ annie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1259 of 1790 🔗

Experts?
This was my university.
I bow my head in embarrasment.

241872 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1260 of 1790 🔗

I could have told them that about a week ago when “cases” and admissions levelled off. I bet they used some highly technical modelling wizardry to come up with the same answer.

241574 Eddy, 10, #1261 of 1790 🔗
241582 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 10, #1262 of 1790 🔗

Police v Gym Owner

Complements from DM

241600 ▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to Victoria, 7, #1263 of 1790 🔗

I don’t know why; but members of uniformed services who wander around with their hands in their pockets just look slovenly and it winds me up. I just want to shout, “get your fucking hands out of your pockets and get down and give me 20 push ups”

241612 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to The Filthy Engineer, 12, #1264 of 1790 🔗

They look pathetic. I’ve seen fancy dress policemen who were better turned out and looked more convincing. Also, the job they’re doing is shameful. If they had an ounce of decency or dignity they’d go home.

241663 ▶▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 2, #1265 of 1790 🔗

Just collected my wife from Chatham Railway Station. The ticket barriers were reduced to one only. Once you went through the only barrier you passed through an airport security type of device she described as having flashing blue lights around the inside. There was no way of avoiding it. She has never seen this before.

Standing around observing this were – wait for it – several armed police officers.

My wife was in her usual “commuter daze” and didn’t stop to ask what was going on.

Does anyone know what this could be? If it was some kind of scanner what were they detecting? Drugs? Guns? If it wasn’t a scanner, what was it? I wish I’d gone in to ask.

Perhaps she has just been vaccinated.

Sinister??

241672 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to charleyfarley, #1266 of 1790 🔗

There was something similar at a station I used to frequent, it was a metal detector for checking for knife smuggling by train.

241796 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to DRW, #1267 of 1790 🔗

Interesting. Armed police a bit OTT though for knives, but then . . .

241702 ▶▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to charleyfarley, #1268 of 1790 🔗

Yeah, they’re be looking for weapons because of Patel’s increased “terrorist” threat level.

241645 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to The Filthy Engineer, #1269 of 1790 🔗

Don’t blame the ordinary copper – they’re told what to do.

241620 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Victoria, 2, #1270 of 1790 🔗

They just love dicking around doing nothing and finding spurious grounds to press charges.

241624 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Victoria, 5, #1271 of 1790 🔗

Would be interesting if the gym has any police officers as members. Surely some police officers must have reservations about what they are doing at the moment, or are they all soulless ‘just following orders’ types?

241643 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Victoria, 4, #1272 of 1790 🔗

Well – that blows out of the water any claim of under-staffing!

241648 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Victoria, 7, #1273 of 1790 🔗

I find it bizarre that they act quickly on beleaguered businesses struggling to keep afloat but are absent when someone has been mugged or a victim of a grooming gang.

The next time they cry poverty or “cuts” we should remind them of this and say that they ain’t getting more taxpayer cash.

241749 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Victoria, 1, #1274 of 1790 🔗

Saw this on Facebook. They’re obviously finding it tough in Colchester

241590 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 30, #1275 of 1790 🔗

My FOI from the DHSC is the one being used on Francis Hoar’s Twitter:

https://twitter.com/laworfiction/status/1326247457727143940

Hey, making progress.

241593 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Awkward Git, 9, #1276 of 1790 🔗

Deserved fame at last

I’ve emailed him a couple of times with stuff and he has been responsive

He’s doing sterling work, like you

241775 ▶▶ annie, replying to Awkward Git, #1277 of 1790 🔗

Congratulations.
I hereby rename you Mr. Valiant-for-Truth.

241597 Cheezilla, 27, #1278 of 1790 🔗

Window cleaner came today.
As I paid him cash, we asked each other how we’re doing. He started talking about bubbles etc. I think I shocked him a bit when I said it’s all a scam.
Asked him if he knows anyone who’s had it. He hasn’t! We then had a very enjoyably cynical discussion about false positives wherein he talked about people receiving results when they haven’t even done the test.
Very invigorating!

241602 NickR, replying to NickR, 7, #1279 of 1790 🔗

Check out the variance between deaths by day of death & by date reported.

241642 ▶▶ RickH, replying to NickR, 5, #1280 of 1790 🔗

Thus the importance of the work done originally by the CEBM in re-mapping the data.

241647 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to NickR, 1, #1281 of 1790 🔗

It hits you straight in the face but I would hazard that 90%+ are not even aware of it.

241684 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to NickR, #1282 of 1790 🔗

Absolutely hits the nail on the head Nick, I suppose I could also say that this is the smoking gun.
Good work my friend.
Arnie.

241723 ▶▶ Aslangeo, replying to NickR, #1283 of 1790 🔗

Excellent chart unfortunately the media show and the public only get to see the top graph of reported deaths. Most folk unfortunately trust the MSM don’t want to dig into the data to find true facts

241604 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 2, #1284 of 1790 🔗

Todays figures https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8938639/Britains-Covid-19-death-toll-tops-50-000-officials-announce-595-new-victims.html

I’d be interested to know what the figures are for those really dying from Covid but as someone mentioed yesterday, that doesn’t seem possible. I guess that if you had X then Coivd may just tip you over the edge.

241608 ▶▶ kenadams, replying to arfurmo, 6, #1285 of 1790 🔗

Even putting aside the usual ‘with’ / ‘of’ points, just look at the deaths chart by date of death, not date reported. It levelled off days and days ago.

241609 ▶▶ IanE, replying to arfurmo, 3, #1286 of 1790 🔗

Quite – it is, as they say, a harvesting illness. Of course the data has been massively fiddled anyway!

241610 Tyneside Tigress, 10, #1287 of 1790 🔗

Topping 50k deaths ‘with covid’, cue return of Sky death wall. Focus on those under 55 who have died ‘with covid’ and happen to be healthcare or front-line workers. Did they have cancer, diabetes, heart problems? Very sorry for their loved ones, but this is beyond the pale.

241613 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., #1288 of 1790 🔗

Listening to Benjamin Butterworth on TR: What a tosser!!!

241617 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1289 of 1790 🔗

Of the highest order. Takes it to a whole new level.

241623 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Sarigan, #1290 of 1790 🔗

Arrogant or what?

241618 Mark, 5, #1291 of 1790 🔗

VDH draws attention to the problems in the background.

Victor Davis Hanson | Why are Trump supporters disillusioned?
How long is managed “democracy” sustainable on this fundamentally dishonest, elitist and technocratic basis?

241622 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #1292 of 1790 🔗

Look at this!

… speaking as CEO of a data tech company, I tell your the data extruded from you while you are on ‘lockdown’, tested and traced, is unbelievably valuable. Your working from home data is valuable, your kids being isolated online data are valuable, it’s a hack. Big tech companies with friends in govt (and perhaps in alignment w a non Allied superpower) have used med crisis to hack society and drive it all online via ‘lockdowns’. The data they are mining is so vastly valuable. Killing the last ‘analog’ spaces..bookstores, town halls, schools, bars, restaurants, protest, and driving all that activity that used to take place in non digital spaces, online, is hugely valuable.

‘Contact tracing’ which was rightly rejected as a civil rights violation during the height of the HIV epidemic…creates hugely valuable networks of relationship maps that typically only licensed private investigators and law enforcement have access to, worth about $1200 a month per customer to even see these networks. ….

https://twitter.com/naomirwolf/status/1322657874791690243

241639 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1293 of 1790 🔗

I’m shocked. Surely not! It’s all for the good of our communal health.

241709 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1294 of 1790 🔗

Indeed. That is why this 2nd lockdown is so effective in killing the remaining small businesses. Nothing to do with our health.

‘Data’ is the new ‘oil’

241625 James Marker, replying to James Marker, 17, #1295 of 1790 🔗

Many of the people trumpeting the arrival of the Pfizer vaccine previously cast doubt on the possibility of herd immunity being established naturally. I can’t help thinking there’s something fishy going on here. But in any case, I very much doubt this vaccine will prove 90% effective in practice. It must be stored under very carefully controlled conditions and from experience I would seriously doubt that many surgeries have the procedural rigour to ensure those conditions are not compromised. What happens if they are? Does the vaccine rapidly become ineffective? Does it become dangerous? I haven’t read anything on this so far. Does Professor Melinda Mills want people to be prosecuted or even imprisoned for raising these kinds of doubts. Such a law would set an extremely dangerous precedent. It would then be a short step to the government outlawing any dissenting voice.

241657 ▶▶ Julian, replying to James Marker, 5, #1296 of 1790 🔗

It has only been tested on younger, healthy people – the people who are not really affected by the virus. It’s not clear to what extent it reduces how infectious people are. 90% effective seems like a meaningless phrase.

241734 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Julian, 2, #1297 of 1790 🔗

It would have been pretty surprising if it hadn’t basically worked. We know it gives you antibodies and T-cells. The bigger unknowns are the rate of adverse reactions and the possibility of disease enhancement both of which need a much larger sample.

241765 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to guy153, 2, #1298 of 1790 🔗

Guy, do you have any thoughts on the fact that the reporting cut-off point was 7 days after the second dose (although the CEO, interviewed on CNBC said it would be extended to 14 imminently)? I recall you saying on here some months ago that there might be an issue with some of the two-dose vaccines w.r.t. a potential cytokine storm after the second dose?

242096 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1299 of 1790 🔗

I don’t remember saying that. My view (but this is just speculation of course) is that there is more risk some time like several months after the first (or second) dose when the effect of the vaccine is fading.

At this point you would be in the grey area where you would actually get infected by the virus and the deeper layers of immune system intelligence would be exercised to deal with it. More subtle details of the differences between a natural and an artificial infection might become important at this point especially as severe Covid is associated with immune system dysfunction.

If you’ve just had a vaccine in a trial you have lots of neutralizing antibodies still floating around and so you barely get infected at all. Having said that, the SARS1 vaccines that enhanced all did it pretty obviously right after vaccination in the monkeys. But maybe that’s just because SARS1 is more severe so everything is kind of scaled up, and we will see the same effect with SARS2.

I think the vaccine will probably be fine, but the risks of the disease are also low, so it’s a finely balanced decision that everyone should be free to make for themselves.

241798 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to guy153, 2, #1300 of 1790 🔗

It may have worked in some limited technical sense, but what is its medical/public health purpose? What will it achieve and who will it benefit? That’s not at all clear to me, in fact as it stands I can’t see what use it is. A vaccine that was safe to use on the vulnerable, and worked, would be useful, or a vaccine that stops people being infectious. But we don’t currently know either of these things, do we?

242099 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Julian, #1301 of 1790 🔗

Not yet, although it increases the probabilities a bit for both of those things.

241972 ▶▶▶ Sally, replying to Julian, #1302 of 1790 🔗

They’re not assessing whether it prevents onward transmission of the virus. That and more explained here:
https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4037

241793 ▶▶ Pancho the Grey, replying to James Marker, #1303 of 1790 🔗

They will not have conducted any trials using a vaccine that has not been stored in anything other than ideal conditions.

241654 alw, replying to alw, 9, #1304 of 1790 🔗

This seems to have gone under the Radar. Disgraceful especially when one hears that there will be fewer GP appointments next year because of GP’s giving vaccinations. Money should be spent on those who are ill, detecting cancers etc, not on the well. I live in the Socialist paradise that is Camden and will be refusing.
Handcock must go.

https://www.itv.com/news/london/2020-11-10/which-areas-of-london-and-the-home-counties-will-receive-mass-covid-testing-support

241722 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to alw, 6, #1305 of 1790 🔗

Covid-only NHS. Who is still clapping?

241656 Leemc23, replying to Leemc23, 31, #1306 of 1790 🔗

While I appreciate they won’t all of been in the past day or two but nearly 600 today seems a massive massive leap – the media will be all over that like flies on ice cream.

Second…. a question. The Fat Controller was huffing and puffing his way through his weekly flirt with his mate Kier earlier when he said something along the lines of the vaccine not getting the U.K. out of the woods.

So what the actual f*ck will ? Seriously. 1) virus is not as bad as feared (GREAT) 2) does not affect, much, working age people (GREAT) 3) Does not affect kids at all (GREAT). 4) Hospitals are not over run at all (GREAT) 5) Vaccine on the way(GREAT) 6) No second wave (GREAT)

So all the good news and we are still not out of the woods ? What’s it going to take Boris to end this ? It’s been a fucking year since this virus was gobbed out of a Bat. Even Spanish flu only lasted 3 seasons. We have been through 4 ! WHATS IT GOING TO TAKE ???????????

241748 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Leemc23, 7, #1307 of 1790 🔗

Sorry – have to challenge No. 5. A successful vaccine will simply dislodge Covid from old people’s lungs and create opportunities for yet more novel pathogens in the vacated ecological niche. If we are really unlucky, one of those might have the ability to make young and healthy people really sick (as did the Spanish Flu).

Also, what is the vaccine’s primary purpose? It ain’t the polio vaccine, protecting healthy children from a cruel disease! Its main aim woukd appear to be to give very old and sick people a few more months of living with poor health before they succumb to something else, quite possibly something far worse, like septicaemia. You might liken it to a death march where the elderly and frail are not allowed to drift off into the arms of morpheus but are beaten with sticks till they get to their feet and resume their futile progress.

241772 ▶▶ Henry, replying to Leemc23, 1, #1308 of 1790 🔗

We’re on a zero-covid policy. Whatever it takes to achieve that, above points are futile.

241801 ▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Henry, 1, #1309 of 1790 🔗

Then we need to cull all mammal life on Earth as the Virus exists in animals and people etc. We will have to end with a depressed person and a lemming. Both of whom can hold hands like Thelma and Louise at the end of days.

241662 Old Bill, 12, #1310 of 1790 🔗

Sorry, but the vaccine will not work – no vaccine will work.

Why?

Easy to answer.

The vaccine is designed to protect only one person – you can probably guess who. The trouble with that is, there is no vaccine against ignorance, there is no vaccine against cowardice, there is no vaccine against criminality, there is no vaccine against pathological lying, there is no vaccine against psychopathy, there is no vaccine against megalomania.

So if it wont work for him, what use will it be to me?

241665 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #1311 of 1790 🔗

Want a laugh?

Look at who OFCOM claim are their recommended truthful fact checkers;

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/research-and-data/media-literacy-research/coronavirus-resources

241689 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #1312 of 1790 🔗

It’s like putting Jimmy Saville in charge of a youth centre

241697 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1313 of 1790 🔗

How come Lockdown Sceptics doesn’t appear in the Factchecking and Debunking section?

241711 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Awkward Git, #1314 of 1790 🔗

Laugh? CNN made me cry. But then WHO made me laugh again – they’ve contradicted themselves on everything: masks bad then good, lockdowns work and don’t work, it’s not a pandemic and it is, it’s very dangerous and it’s not , as their Chinese masters demand.

241668 Voz 0db, 13, #1315 of 1790 🔗

A surprising number of Britons would be wiling to take the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine provided politicians take it first .

The only problem with this approach is that it is almost impossible for us to know if what is in the vial is indeed the same mRNA s h i t they will then give to the rest of the herd!

241669 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 6, #1316 of 1790 🔗

The strange tale of the missing covid cases

As with most covid propaganda it’s intention is to engender fear and compliance, whilst promoting an underlying political agenda

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54903578

The story outlines the horrendous sanctions that await covid rule breakers should they visit Wales

Two similar stories have appeared in recent weeks

Who wrote these stories? Was it a journalist or was it a police propaganda department?

They all relate to Dyfed Powys Police and the total number of court cases is 30

DPP is the smallest police force in England and Wales; yet they issued more covid fixed penalty notices than any force in England and Wales

Did you notice that all the alleged perpetrators are English?

By May DPP had issued over a thousand tickets. Neighboring South Wales Police which is four times larger than DPP had issued just over one hundred

By October the total number of tickets issued by DPP stood at 1,731 (SWP issued one in October)

You are 87 times more likely to get a ticket from DPP than some other forces

Who are the recipients of these tickets?. Yes you guessed it, the English

60% of tickets in Wales remain unpaid, that’s pro rata 1,038 for DPP

If the ticket is not paid within 28 days of it’s issue the process for issuing a summons kicks in

So where are these missing 1,008 cases?

The profile of the fines issued in the 30 cases that reached court are very similar. This suggests to me that the cases were heard in the absence of the defendants. (If they appeared in court or answered the paperwork their income would be taken into account when sentencing)

I suspect the majority of the court cases relate to people who gave false names and addresses to the police and never answered any of the paperwork

Perhaps the Plaid Cymru Police and Crime Commissioner for DPP has an explanation

241816 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, 1, #1317 of 1790 🔗

Ugly, overt anglophobia lies behind this disgusting persecution. Dungford is in it up to his scrawny tortoise neck.

241671 Paul, replying to Paul, 6, #1318 of 1790 🔗

I’ve received a reply from my MP,two weeks after I wrote to him,as usual it doesn’t address the points I made,especially those regarding mental health,probably a standard copy and paste sent to everyone,

Thank you for contacting me about the package of tougher measures to tackle the spread of coronavirus, which were set out by the Prime Minister on 31 October.

In March, we all pulled together in a spirit of national sacrifice and community. Acting together, for the benefit of all, we ensured the NHS was protected and thousands of lives were saved. Unfortunately, the evidence shows that the virus has recently started to spread again in an exponential way and that is why the Prime Minister has acted.

While the virus is more widespread in the North West, it is doubling faster in the South East, and fastest in the Midlands. On present trends hospitals in the South West would run out of current capacity by the end of November. Other regions would follow soon after. I have been informed that if we do not take these measures, we would exceed the first wave peak at around 20 November, exceed currently available hospital beds by around 23 November and exceed surge capacity and capacity freed up from postponing some hospital services – which we do not want to do given the impact on vital care – by around 4 December. The legislation is time limited, but as the current situation has shown, we must be guided by the facts.

I am assured that the advice is that this four-week period will make a significant difference to progress the control of the virus. When this new lockdown period ends, I believe that the tiered framework already in place will continue to enable the Government and local authorities to work together to target regional outbreaks.

It is clear the economic effects of fighting COVID-19 last longer for businesses than the duration of any given restrictions, and we need to go further with our support. I welcome that the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme has been extended until March in response to new national restrictions, and to give people and businesses across the whole United Kingdom the certainty they need over what will be a difficult winter.

Measures must continue to be proportionate to the risk the virus poses, and the impact on the economy, livelihoods and personal freedoms cannot be too great. I will bear in mind the views you have raised and continue to ensure the people of Grantham, Stamford, Bourne and local villages are represented when these matters are debated in the House.

Thank you again for taking the time to contact me.

With best wishes,

Gareth

Gareth Davies MP
Member of Parliament
Grantham and Stamford
+44 (0)207 2194931
House of Commons, Palace of Westminster, London, SW1A 0AA

241678 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Paul, 6, #1319 of 1790 🔗

Blimey these useless MP (95%) responses are painful to read. Just the usual newspeak (eXpOnEnTiAl) is enough to bamboozle these space-wastes into line.

241683 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to DRW, 5, #1320 of 1790 🔗

Yes – very painful. They amount to confessions of personal ignorance, indolence, incompetence, and idiocy.

241715 ▶▶▶▶ dommo, replying to OKUK, 2, #1321 of 1790 🔗

admissions of gross negligence – so not entirely without value…

241700 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Paul, 1, #1322 of 1790 🔗

“I have been informed”. So what value is he adding? Does he not have a mind of his own?

241739 ▶▶ Al T, replying to Paul, 3, #1323 of 1790 🔗

Similar experience. Mine failed to address the constituency specific points I raised. In fact what I received had been cut and pasted from her Twitter feed.

Apart from the usual guff about cases rising exponentially, it contained this particular gem of hyperbole: ‘we have to remember that one person’s mild cough can be another’s death knell’. As she also mentioned that she was ‘..voting to save lives and protect the NHS’, I knew at that point that I would never vote for her again.

In fact, I’m ashamed I ever voted for someone with so little to add and such apparent insouciance of the deleterious effects on her constituents of being moved overnight from Tier 1 to Lockdown

The Conservative Party would be dead to me were it not for the friendly personalised reply I received from the office of Sir Graham Brady. That and the likelihood that Starmer’s Labour Party would almost certainly be card carrying lockdown enthusiasts and mask advocates.

241779 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Al T, 1, #1324 of 1790 🔗

Yes. My local (Tory) MP is rubbish. At least I didn’t vote for him!

241783 ▶▶▶▶ Jo, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1325 of 1790 🔗

My MP, Theresa May, abstained. I am working on her. Sent a total of 5 letters now. Hope to have a response to most recent two. Will let people know if she moves to the CRG.

241792 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Jo, 3, #1326 of 1790 🔗

Theresa May made a very good speech before the lockdown vote. I think she will be more open to listening than many MPs.

241800 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Jo, 4, #1327 of 1790 🔗

Jo, I think you, and any other constituents you know, should persevere with Mrs May. I think she will be much madder now than she was prior to Boris walking out on her mid-speech in such a disgraceful manner. Remember, she commissioned the report on Primodos which brought Carl Heneghan and his team to a wider public focus. I didn’t like her response to Brexit or the decision to call an unnecessary election, but I think she is a patriot, and her speech might have swayed some of the older guard in the Tory benches.

241894 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jo, #1328 of 1790 🔗

Good for you. That speech of hers rocked!

241788 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1329 of 1790 🔗

Snap.

241795 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1330 of 1790 🔗

Snap!

Our Tory Boy’s ‘replies’ never answer our questions. We’ve had 3 responses from him and two mass-produced letters pushed through the letterbox. All of them drivel, all cut-and-pasted straight from the Cabinet Office’s lying briefings.

We are just writing to him again about this TED business and the Pfizer bosses selling £millions of shares yesterday. We do not expect anything back but he can bloody know what we think!

We voted for the sitting Labour MP because she seemed honest and she was definitely hard-working. She was a Brexit casualty. We are not and never have been party-political and we vote for the most honest and able candidate or, if there’s nobody like that, we spoil our papers by writing ‘none of the above’.

Good as she was, her responses to any questioning of the fear-porn round here have been lamentable and it’s obvious she would have done every bit as badly as Tory Boy. I could say a lot more here about Labour which would get me down-voted until the Resurrection so I will refrain. MW

241897 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #1331 of 1790 🔗

Me too. Our old Labour MP worked very hard for her constituents but this year would probably have been squashed by the Starmer stasi, as seems to have happened to all of them.

241777 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Paul, 1, #1332 of 1790 🔗

Please make sure you thank those who are actively on our side!
Got this from Andrew Rosindell today:

Thank you for getting in touch and for your kind words about my recent vote against the latest Government restrictions.
I believe that with these latest measures the government will be condemning the British people to bankruptcy, mass unemployment and an explosion of non-COVID related health issues that will be neglected during this lockdown.
This new lockdown will also signify the biggest loss of our freedom and liberties in my lifetime, as people are prevented from going about their daily lives.
I therefore could not support the introduction of stricter measures and voted against it in the House of Commons last week. I will continue to do everything else I can to raise my concerns with the Government and persuade them to adopt a different strategy.
Thank you once again for getting in touch and for your kind message.
With every good wish.
Yours sincerely

241813 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Cheezilla, #1333 of 1790 🔗

I got the same. I think it’s fair enough for him to send the same reply to people who have sent him essentially the same message. As he’s not my MP I wouldn’t expect a uniquely personalised reply.

241899 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Edward, #1334 of 1790 🔗

Me too. I sent him a copied and pasted one and he’s much busier then I am!
At least he took the trouble to write the original message.

241782 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Paul, 2, #1335 of 1790 🔗

Jeez…are they still copying and pasting? Because that reply sounds a like mostly cut and paste from a template.

They should really be ashamed at what they write.

241824 ▶▶ The Mask Exempt Covid Marshall, replying to Paul, 1, #1336 of 1790 🔗

Acting together, for the benefit of all, we ensured the NHS was protected and thousands of lives were saved

Hahaha. What a prat.

241673 Voz 0db, replying to Voz 0db, 11, #1337 of 1790 🔗

Hancock Grilled by Julia Hartley Brewer

Didn’t saw ANY grilling! And wasted until +-8 minutes…

Since when does a massive “testing” campaign serves to “identify the people with the disease?!

PCR DOES NOT detect disease , and PCR IN NOT A TEST!

241693 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Voz 0db, 2, #1338 of 1790 🔗

JHB and handcock are best buddies

241698 ▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to stefarm, -2, #1339 of 1790 🔗

Shill bitch

241752 ▶▶ Christopher, replying to Voz 0db, 5, #1340 of 1790 🔗

Listened to the said ” grilling ” on Richie Allen today , she gave him a very easy ride and was clearly very chummy with him and as Richie said when commenting on this sham of an interview ” she will be at the same party as Handcock when this is done with “.
Looks like she’s just another establishment Shill

242035 ▶▶▶ Voz 0db, replying to Christopher, #1341 of 1790 🔗

I just wonder why they wrote that tittle to frame that scam vid!

241681 PoshPanic, 2, #1342 of 1790 🔗

Track suggestion for today, that sums up what the whole vaccine propaganda is really all about..It’s all about the Benjamins Baby!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhfM4WmMeRA

241695 Charles Babbage, replying to Charles Babbage, 6, #1343 of 1790 🔗

Anxiety is high today. I had my first ‘run in’ today.
I work FOR a school and while moving around the corridors of the school, the headteacher collared me because I am the only member of ‘staff’ who doesn’t wear a mask (1 out of 100’s). I wear a lanyard with an exemption on it and the headteacher was relatively ok with it but my fear is they will talk to my manager and start to cause issue by the fact I don’t wear one…

241815 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Charles Babbage, 4, #1344 of 1790 🔗

Hello Novid30

Please try not to worry. I know it is hard.

Your employer cannot and should not put any pressure on you. It is discriminatory. The law on this is set out on a website called

Law or Fiction

There’s also a toolkit there about liability

Hope it helps

CM x

241699 Cecil B, 7, #1345 of 1790 🔗

Environmental Health Officers seemed to be on a mission to close every business they could get their hands on

What goes round

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-54897296

241703 PastImperfect, replying to PastImperfect, 38, #1346 of 1790 🔗

Sorry, I don’t have the link: Dr Mike Yeadon, ex-head of Pfizer and whistle-blower.
Response to the UK GOV vaccine consultation:
Dear Mr Hancock,
I have a degree in biochemistry and toxicology and a research based PhD in pharmacology. I have spent 32 years working in pharmaceutical research and development, mostly in new medicines for disorders of the lungs and skin. I was a vice president at Pfizer and CEO of a biotechnology company I founded (Ziarco – acquired by Novartis). I’m knowledgeable about new medicine research and development.
I have read the consultation document. I’ve rarely been as shocked and upset.
All vaccines against the SARS-COV-2 virus are by definition novel. No candidate vaccine has been in development for more than a few months.
If any such vaccine is approved for use under any circumstances that are not EXPLICITLY experimental, I believe that recipients are being misled to a criminal extent.
This is because there are precisely zero human volunteers for whom there could possibly be more than a few months past-dose safety information.
My concern does not arise because I have negative views about vaccines (I don’t).
Instead, it’s the very principle that politicians seem ready to waive that new medical interventions at this, incomplete state of development should not be made available to subjects on anything other than an explicitly experimental basis. That’s my concern.
And the reason for that concern is that it is not known what the safety profile will be, six months or a year or longer after dosing.
You have literally no data on this and neither does anyone else.
It isn’t that I’m saying that unacceptable adverse effects will emerge after longer intervals after dosing. No: it is that you have no idea what will happen yet, despite this, you’ll be creating the impression that you do.
Several of the vaccine candidates utilise novel technology which have not previously been used to create vaccines. There is therefore no long term safety data which can be pointed to in support of the notion that it’s reasonable to expedite development and to waive absent safety information on this occasion.
I am suspicious of the motives of those proposing expedited use in the wider human population. We now understand who is at particularly elevated risk of morbidity and mortality from acquiring this virus. Volunteers from these groups only should be provided detailed information about risk / benefit, including the sole point I make here. Only if informed consent is given should any EXPERIMENTAL vaccine be used.
I don’t trust you. You’ve not been straightforward and have behaved appallingly throughout this crisis. You’re still doing it now, misleading about infection risk from young children. Why should I believe you in relation to experimental vaccines?

241710 ▶▶ Voz 0db, replying to PastImperfect, 6, #1347 of 1790 🔗

The scoundrels and terrorists in government DO NOT CARE about your HEALTH!
The scoundrels and terrorists in government DO NOT CARE if you die!

The scoundrels and terrorists in government WILL PROTECT the BIG PHARMA so that no lawsuits are allowed in case of serious side-effects or death!

The scoundrels and terrorists in government are just working and obeying the ORDERS of the Secular Ruling Families & Billionaires!

241733 ▶▶ Julian, replying to PastImperfect, 2, #1348 of 1790 🔗

That’s a great letter

241776 ▶▶ Pancho the Grey, replying to PastImperfect, 1, #1349 of 1790 🔗

From what I can find it was penned in late September, which makes it even more prescient.

241820 ▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Pancho the Grey, #1350 of 1790 🔗

Probably, a lot of people here also responded before the closing date of 21 Sept.

241705 Voz 0db, #1351 of 1790 🔗

Just send a nice e-mail to that “professor” asking/supporting to jail slaves that don’t want to be artificially INFECTED!

melinda.mills@sociology.ox.ac.uk

241712 Arnie, replying to Arnie, 66, #1352 of 1790 🔗

I have severe PTSD and have a mental health nurse visit every week. He turned up today as usual and announced that he quit today. He’s been coming to me for 15 years.

He said that he couldn’t contain his disgust with the ‘Covid fraud’ (his words) any more. He said that he’d rather stack shelves than work for the NHS ever again.

He also confirmed that the suicide rate here on the South Coast UK had gone ‘over 200% up’ compared to last year.

He seems to be quite broken by the conflict of looking after all the victims of this enormous fraud whilst having to toe the company line (lies).

I wished him luck & offered for him to call me if he ever needed help. What has this country come to? Just what the actual fuk?..

241718 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Arnie, 12, #1353 of 1790 🔗

It doesn’t get any more criminal. I’m beginning think that Ferguson has a sideline in climate change modelling and has conned the world’s leaders into thinking the globe will be uninhabitable in 50 years if we don’t dramatically change our way of life and reduce our population. So they are. Seems odd, but it’s the best theory I have right now.

241728 ▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to leggy, 8, #1354 of 1790 🔗

I think this is the beginning of a giant cull to be honest. Here in the UK I think they only want to ‘trim the fat’ ie get rid of the vulnerable, the old, the mentally ill, etc. Oh and reduce the birth rate to negative. God help you if you live in a poor country though…

241735 ▶▶▶▶ Eddy, replying to Arnie, 7, #1355 of 1790 🔗

We do.

241781 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to leggy, 4, #1356 of 1790 🔗

Please get your facts right. The Great Saint Greta told us over a year ago, climate change will destroy the world within 5 years – so, less than 4 years to go now.

241807 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to OKUK, 3, #1357 of 1790 🔗

Didn’t David Attenborough tell us something similar about 10 years ago? Can’t remember the details but I think he expected doomsday round about now.

241819 ▶▶▶▶ Al T, replying to OKUK, 4, #1358 of 1790 🔗

Made worse by all the discarded, non biodegradable masks chucked everywhere.

What an interesting dilemma for mask advocates

241810 ▶▶ annie, replying to Arnie, 6, #1359 of 1790 🔗

You offered help to your mental health nurse?
Well done you.But what a world They gave made, in which this has to happen.

241863 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Arnie, 3, #1360 of 1790 🔗

Do you think he would be prepared to speak out to Toby or one of the more sceptical papers now that he’s no longer under the NHS’s thumb?

242175 ▶▶▶ stevie119, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 1, #1361 of 1790 🔗

An excellent idea.

241716 Darryl, 6, #1362 of 1790 🔗

I am always amazed that the mainstream media and big tech blatantly censor anything that goes against the global government narrative and most people seemingly don’t notice for example the University of Newcastle professor interview suddenly cut off on BBC the other day – who gives the order in the presenters ear that it is forbidden information? not always convinced it is the producer.

Twitter are also busy censoring material even when completely factual. Maybe the public like a 1984 type society. https://www.bitchute.com/video/xZQlEBJeU7n1/

241719 Arnie, replying to Arnie, 3, #1363 of 1790 🔗

I want a badge made:

Remember Thalidomide?

Mabel, can you help me please?

241744 ▶▶ Jo, replying to Arnie, #1364 of 1790 🔗

You will be arrested for sure if you wear that!

241766 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jo, 3, #1365 of 1790 🔗

We should stick them over those bloody rainbows!

241778 ▶▶▶▶ Jo, replying to Cheezilla, #1366 of 1790 🔗

Yip!

241886 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Arnie, 1, #1367 of 1790 🔗
241720 Voz 0db, -7, #1368 of 1790 🔗

Mass Testing by the Army Turns Out to be a Good Thing

Well… WHO is the absolute moron that wrote that piece of shite?!

241721 Mabel Cow, 3, #1369 of 1790 🔗

In case it’s of any interest, here’s a link to the full text of Neustadt and Fineberg’s 1978 book The Swine Flu Affair – Decision-making on a slippery disease . There’s also a PDF version (167 pages).

The 1976 swine flu outbreak was an earlier attempt at vaccinating an entire country. It didn’t work out very well.

See also: A Brief History of the Flu Vaccine .

241726 DJ Dod, replying to DJ Dod, 6, #1370 of 1790 🔗

The Berlin Ärztekammer (medical association) is urging patients to denounce ‘Covid denying’ doctors for offences such as not enforcing the wearing of masks in waiting rooms. Apparently several practices have already been reported to the state prosecutor for ‘putting patients in danger’.

Looks like it’s Galileo versus the Inquisition all over again:

https://www.rbb24.de/politik/thema/2020/coronavirus/beitraege_neu/2020/11/berlin-corona-aerzte-zweifel-aerztekammer-jonitz-interview.html

241736 ▶▶ Jo, replying to DJ Dod, 1, #1371 of 1790 🔗

Gott im Himmel!

241727 Eddy, replying to Eddy, 11, #1372 of 1790 🔗

I don’t know if being awake does this but I can’t stop laughing at the news. Surely they know that they are delivering covid propaganda 24/7. They must know, I can’t accept the fact that they are so stupid.

241746 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Eddy, 6, #1373 of 1790 🔗

Unfortunately, a lot of their viewers are extremely stupid.

241753 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Eddy, 3, #1374 of 1790 🔗

Top prize goes to Sky (Fake)News’ “PANDEMIC” logo of blood red and virus-shaped stain.

241738 Jo, replying to Jo, 4, #1375 of 1790 🔗

For Trump supporters:
https://www.coreysdigs.com/u-s/world-holds-its-breath-over-election-shenanigans/

I met this journalist a few weeks ago – he has some very interesting ideas.

241764 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Jo, 2, #1376 of 1790 🔗

Another great Alan Jones video for those interested in this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfW_lTD8k-E

241784 ▶▶ Eddy, replying to Jo, #1377 of 1790 🔗

Excellent read.

241745 OrangeAlternative.org, replying to OrangeAlternative.org, 14, #1378 of 1790 🔗

INFORMATION FOR TRAVELLERS WISHING TO VISIT SWEDEN

Dear Resident,

You may not have heard much information about the situation in Sweden recently.

By March new infections with this terrible virus were increasing rapidly. When Imperial College modelling was used to predict the pandemic’s trajectory in Sweden a peak of 20,000 patients were forecast by early May – with an ICU requirement around 40 times the actual capacity.

Unfortunately this nightmare scenario came to pass.

ICUs and then whole hospitals were overwhelmed. When a lockdown was finally enforced it was too little, too late. Swedes resorted to violence to secure medical supplies for their loved ones provoking a wave of looting of other essential items. Flatpack barricades sprang up in cities as rival neighbourhoods fought tooth and nail for what little was left.

It was around this time that we took the decision to airlift our staff from the embassy. As a result we have very little information about the current situation. The reports we have from the few refugees who managed to make it across the border suggest that only a handful of Swedes are left.

Given the harshness of the Scandinavian winter their chances of survival are slim.

Farewell Sweden #ThankYouForTheMusic

241754 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to OrangeAlternative.org, 2, #1379 of 1790 🔗

ha ha

241758 ▶▶ calchas, replying to OrangeAlternative.org, #1380 of 1790 🔗

‘The Winner Takes It All’ for Sweden

It’s ‘Waterloo’ or the rest of Western Europe

241790 ▶▶ The Mask Exempt Covid Marshall, replying to OrangeAlternative.org, 4, #1381 of 1790 🔗

Having just returned from Sweden, I can confirm the above is true. You could hardly move around Gamla Stan for corpses littering the streets! If only they’d listened to Nerd Ferguson and locked down!

241797 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to OrangeAlternative.org, 8, #1382 of 1790 🔗

CNN have indicated they are enforcing a news blackout on Sweden in order to spare viewers the horrific scenes which include young people sitting together at tables with no masks on. A CNN spokesperson said: “We know our audience and they would not wish to be exposed to such images. ,The BBC have denied they are imposing a similar blackout: “Sweden just doesn’t figure very high in our news priorities at the moment. We feel we’ve got it about right. If things were to change, if there were a sudden surge in Covid cases in Sweden then we would cover the story.”

241750 AnotherSceptic, replying to AnotherSceptic, 5, #1383 of 1790 🔗

The dentist has spoken….from the shitty local rag that is Edinburgh Live..

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/jason-leitch-covid-cases-high-19261081

Wanker.

241762 ▶▶ Arkansas, replying to AnotherSceptic, 5, #1384 of 1790 🔗

I suspect that this man will not have an enjoyable life to look forward to after all this is done. Or he’s going to have to be so all-in that nobody ever gets out, basically.

241768 ▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Arkansas, 5, #1385 of 1790 🔗

Yip. He’s another religious fanatic and is opposed to alcohol. No surprise there then.

241773 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to AnotherSceptic, 2, #1386 of 1790 🔗

Wanker. Wait until all the students at Scottish universities get tested to see if they can go home for the Xmas holidays. Prick will be over the moon to report the number of false+ positives

241787 ▶▶ The Mask Exempt Covid Marshall, replying to AnotherSceptic, 3, #1387 of 1790 🔗

Just ignore the weirdo!

241760 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 5, #1388 of 1790 🔗

Tom Paine:
 “…the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated.”

241892 ▶▶ CGL, replying to JohnB, #1389 of 1790 🔗

How I yearn for freedom.

242036 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to CGL, 1, #1390 of 1790 🔗

You’ll have it. Stay strong.
Think how much more fortunate you are in your frustration than the gibbering terrified zombies who don’t know how to be free, or to think, or to live.

241763 Zak Thelotofem, replying to Zak Thelotofem, 4, #1391 of 1790 🔗

No apologies for re-posting this, didn’t know whether to laugh or cry during the last 5 minutes.

*Just released today* – Beyond Crucial Update (Ivor Cummins)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mboEkVl9ooc

241809 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Zak Thelotofem, #1392 of 1790 🔗

What was there to laugh at?

241864 ▶▶▶ Zak Thelotofem, replying to CGL, #1393 of 1790 🔗

Sorry, badly worded. I thought it vindicated the sceptical side of things, angry would have been a better adjective.

241882 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Zak Thelotofem, 1, #1394 of 1790 🔗

No need to apologise 🙂
I am just getting more and more terrified at the moment. The frustration is literally driving me to insanity.

241988 ▶▶▶▶▶ Zak Thelotofem, replying to CGL, 2, #1395 of 1790 🔗

Please stay strong, we are on the right side. I’m sure like me you are trying your best to secure a good future for our family and friends.

242054 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to CGL, 1, #1396 of 1790 🔗

Don’t get scared – get mad!

241769 FenTyger, 2, #1397 of 1790 🔗

In the light of the latest appointment debacle at No10 perhaps this should be today’s song from Elvis Costello.

Once upon a time, I had a little money.
Government burglars took it long
before I could mail it to you.
Still, you are the only one.
Now I can’t let it slip away.
So if the man with the ticker tape,
he tries to take it,
well this is what I’m gonna say.

Blame it on Cain.
Don’t blame it on me

In memory of a fantastic night at the Roundhouse many years ago.

241780 ConstantBees, 2, #1398 of 1790 🔗

Those of you from the left might find this interesting. It’s an American movement, but relevant to those of us on the left in the UK who now feel politically homeless. I haven’t looked through the whole site, but it appears that there is a bit of kickback there.

https://www.walkawaycampaign.com/

241794 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 6, #1399 of 1790 🔗

Well, well, well. How interesting was that interview with Julia HB?!

Matt Hancock appears to have had media training from Bill Gates. I hear PLENTY of influence. Now, I’ve only heard it once and I’ll listen again, but here are a few things I notice

* Matt pronounces vaccine just like Bill does. Accent on the end of the word.
* Matt is VERY agreeable and saying “yes” (where’s defensive headmaster patriarchal tyrant gone to?)
* Matt laughs along and makes a question at the end sound superficial, weakening the power in it
* Matt talks about staying with the programme (I’m sure from memory he said latter word). That is an Americanism.

Sadly though, he outright lied about the data. So that must also be part of the PR training.

And I do NOT buy any of this “new Matt”!

CM
X

241808 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #1400 of 1790 🔗

Staying with the “program”.

241831 ▶▶ 2 pence, replying to Country Mumkin, 2, #1401 of 1790 🔗

Sadly though, he outright lied about the data

They’ve `read the same book.
https://www.gatesnotes.com/Books/How-to-Lie-with-Statistics

241856 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to 2 pence, 1, #1402 of 1790 🔗

Brilliant!

241849 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Country Mumkin, 3, #1403 of 1790 🔗

He’s wetting his pants with excitement to think that he might be the health secretary who presided over the development of the Great Vaccine and solved the world’s worst health crisis in all of history.

242033 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1404 of 1790 🔗

He has engineered the worst outbreak of pure evil Britain has ever seen in the whole if its history.

242261 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Country Mumkin, #1405 of 1790 🔗

Or his gloss, I’ll get my coat.

241799 Edward, replying to Edward, 4, #1406 of 1790 🔗

Government advert on Classic FM:
“Coronavirus blah blah, stay at home, only go out for essential blah blah blah, work from home blah blah…”
These morons actually think that if they spring the same garbage on us as before, we’ll automatically react in the same way as before, despite all the knowledge we’ve gained since then.

241804 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Edward, 4, #1407 of 1790 🔗

Be fair, some behavioural scientist is on £100k for advising on that! It’s a real industry now.

242092 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to OKUK, #1408 of 1790 🔗

Yes, very sadly, those who were badly affected first time round are getting their earlier programming reinforced.

241843 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Edward, 2, #1409 of 1790 🔗

I can’t listen to Classic FM anymore for that very reason.

242028 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1410 of 1790 🔗

It’s ok if you turn the sound right down as soon as the music stops.

241802 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 15, #1411 of 1790 🔗

Pfizer CEO sold 2/3rds of his stocks on the day of the vaccine announcement.
Me thinks, he doesn’t share the media’s optimism.

241806 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Jay Berger, 3, #1412 of 1790 🔗

Before or after? Any link?

241830 ▶▶▶▶ theanalyst, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #1414 of 1790 🔗

Wow. Just wow.

241893 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to OKUK, #1415 of 1790 🔗

After.

241838 ▶▶ theanalyst, replying to Jay Berger, 3, #1416 of 1790 🔗

This guy Albert Bourla is a right selfish tool of a CEO.

He joined Pfizer in 1993 having qualified as a vet and slowly crawled into the CEO position and is now $5.6 million quid richer thanks to the Covid19 financial scam. He is in love with Covid19. He spent almost 27 boring years in the same company. He saw his big opportunity and cashed in whilst the going was good.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Bourla

242260 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to theanalyst, #1417 of 1790 🔗

$5.6 million is ‘walking around money’ for the likes of M. Bourla.

241952 ▶▶ bucky99, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #1418 of 1790 🔗

Although it appears this was arranged over a year ago, based on the share price hitting a given value:

“ Both disposals had already been arranged under 10b5-1 trading plan that allows for scheduled sales at a predetermined time or price.”

“ Mr Bourla authorised his sale for a set price in August and Ms Susman in November 2019, according to Bloomberg, meaning that no issue of possible insider trading arises.”

From the Telegraph, quoting Bloomberg.

242027 ▶▶▶ Draper233, replying to bucky99, 1, #1419 of 1790 🔗

The odd aspect to this, is that on the face of it Big Pharma look set to rake it in as a result of the hysteria over Covid, possibly for a very long time to come.

So why would the CEO adopt a plan in August to sell such a high number of shares at a relatively modest predetermined price? (still slightly lower than the highest price over the last 52 weeks).

That is certainly not the actions of a man who is confident that Pfizer’s share price will soar after vaccinations are rolled out.

241803 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #1420 of 1790 🔗

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-11/if-we-re-not-careful-a-vaccine-might-help-covid-19-spread?srnd=premium-europe

No chance for more freedom even with the vaccine.
Us naughties could get careless and still infect another.
Why TF are we doing this at all then?!

241826 ▶▶ theanalyst, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #1421 of 1790 🔗

Quite depressing but at least they are coming back to the fact that those who have already had it (like Boris the Evil Dictator, Handcock, and myself……plus about 20 million or so others in the UK) are special already….and I quote…

It’s a matter of timing. If everyone in the world is vaccinated, or has developed antibodies through exposure to the disease, there will be no problem.

241841 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #1422 of 1790 🔗

Oh for goodness sake, what’s the bloody answer then?

241925 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1423 of 1790 🔗

GBD&co.
Learn to live with it.
As we do with the flu and should have done from the start.

242055 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to A. Contrarian, #1424 of 1790 🔗

Oh for goodness sake, what’s the bloody answer then?

Hang the politicians ?

241950 ▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #1425 of 1790 🔗

I don’t see why we can’t get T cell immunity tests instead – which would normally provide lifetime immunity or for at least 10 years.

242041 ▶▶ Draper233, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #1426 of 1790 🔗

Yep exactly, as this site revealed a while ago, the main objective for the vaccine is only to reduce minor symptoms.

Transmission and its effectiveness on serious symptoms are secondary concerns.

In effect, it could just be like injecting lemsip.

241805 Biggles, replying to Biggles, 4, #1427 of 1790 🔗

About 6 months ago I had a letter from Ipsos MORI/Imperial College asking if I wanted to take part in the largest COVID-19 testing research study in England. It was torn up and put in the bin.

My daughter has just had a letter from them requesting her permission for my 13-year-old granddaughter to be tested as part of the same study. Apparently her name was chosen completely at random (aren’t they always). My immediate reaction was one of incredulity as I couldn’t believe that they would want a test result from a girl of 13.

Am I overreacting to this? Has anyone else heard of a girl or boy of similar age being asked to undergo a test for this study?

241817 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Biggles, 4, #1428 of 1790 🔗

My friend and her 7 yr old were asked months back. She was fine about it but they didn’t get around to doing it.

241833 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Biggles, 4, #1429 of 1790 🔗

Got it last week for my 12 year old. Needless to say I won’t be giving any data to Imperial as I can’t trust their impartiality.

241839 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Biggles, 3, #1430 of 1790 🔗

My 6-year-old was asked last week…

242024 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to A. Contrarian, #1431 of 1790 🔗

Wow. They really are coming for our children now!

241858 ▶▶ Biggles, replying to Biggles, 3, #1432 of 1790 🔗

Thanks for the replies. I’m confidant my daughter will be putting this letter in the bin as I did.

241971 ▶▶ Sodastream, replying to Biggles, 1, #1433 of 1790 🔗

Received a letter the same for my 8 yr old today!! They can stick the letter where the sun doesn’t shine!!

241811 Charlie Blue, replying to Charlie Blue, 4, #1434 of 1790 🔗

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/11/11/mass-testing-students-will-not-legally-enforceable-government/

Department for Education has since confirmed that the tests will not be mandatory and that there will not be any new laws to force students to be tested.

The “pre-end-of-term testing”, for those who wish to take part, will take place between November 30 and December 6, according to a timeline prepared by NHS Test and Trace.

Small mercies?

241818 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Charlie Blue, 3, #1435 of 1790 🔗

Coinciding with MPs debate on extending lockdown/introduction of Tier 4!

242021 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Charlie Blue, #1436 of 1790 🔗

Let’s hope the students have learned not to go near it this time!

242048 ▶▶ Draper233, replying to Charlie Blue, #1437 of 1790 🔗

But what are the consequences for refusing the test?

Anybody testing negative is “allowed” home (so nice of them), but those testing positive have to remain on campus.

If those refusing the test are placed in the latter category then it is, effectively, mandatory.

242053 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Draper233, #1438 of 1790 🔗

Anyone who doesn’t go home if they want to, deserves to remain on campus.

242105 ▶▶▶▶ Draper233, replying to JohnB, #1439 of 1790 🔗

Agree, although I assume they will incur a fine as a result.

241814 Ewan Duffy, replying to Ewan Duffy, 3, #1440 of 1790 🔗

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/11/the-covid-19-blunders-drive-home-a-harsh-truth-we-live-in-a-failed-state

I know it is Larry Elliott but how did this one slip through the net at the Grauniad?

241821 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Ewan Duffy, 4, #1441 of 1790 🔗

Nah, it’s just a diatribe against the government and is obviously coming from the side of blaming the govt for not locking us down quick enough, hard enough, long enough, tight enough… Also obsessed with test and trace being the magic solution.

241825 annie, 14, #1442 of 1790 🔗

Solemn warning from the Beeb, about Covid ‘misinformation’:

It’s the stuff that gets us fearful, angry, anxious, or joyful that tends to really go viral.
“Fear is one of the biggest drivers that allows misinformation to thrive,” says Claire Wardle of First Draft , an organisation that helps journalists tackle online misinformation.
Urgent calls for action are designed to ramp up anxiety – so be careful.

Can you believe their bloody cheek? Somebody give the Beeb a mirror, for God’s sake.

241827 AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 2, #1443 of 1790 🔗

How many petty bureaucrats and police does it take to check that a gym is actually closed?

Real life zombies….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceRvjPGnpZs

241848 ▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 3, #1444 of 1790 🔗

Those 2 women surely can’t have walked out of their thinking what they are doing is right. “I’m just doing my job” is never an excuse when you know what you’re doing is wrong.

242019 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, #1445 of 1790 🔗

Paul is just awesome. So articulate!

242045 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, #1446 of 1790 🔗

Watching this video, it occurred to me how useful to the enforcers are their masks. Their faces should be known to those they harass, and to those they live amongst.

242073 ▶▶ Draper233, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, #1447 of 1790 🔗

Take ya stupid fucking masks off and communicate properly.

Braindead and brainwashed bureaucrats.

242089 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Draper233, #1448 of 1790 🔗

I suppose the ‘I need to lip-read’ line would work.

241829 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1449 of 1790 🔗

Can anyone point me towards any other countries “abroad”, in the words of my MP, which locked down early and strictly for a short time (ideally 2 weeks, since she thinks that a 2-week UK circuit breaker in September would have worked) and have since more or less eradicated covid and are now living in blissful freedom?

I think she’s making it up and will write and tell her so, but just want to be sure I’m not missing anything. The “failed” Welsh firebreak will be a good one to start her off with…

241840 ▶▶ annie, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #1450 of 1790 🔗

I bet she means NZ. They are back to normal there – so long as their luck holds, and so long as nobody is allowed in or out, ever again.

241853 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to annie, 1, #1451 of 1790 🔗

Yes I did wonder if that’s what she meant (sample size of one is very poor of course). If so, she’s even thicker than I thought. And besides they locked down for more than 2 weeks didn’t they? Not to mention the well-discussed differences in population size and location.

241960 ▶▶▶▶ Sally, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1452 of 1790 🔗

Yes, it was more than 2 weeks, and Auckland had a second lockdown when cases reappeared. They had a couple more community cases in the last week, too.

241869 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to annie, 1, #1453 of 1790 🔗

Which is a touch tricky when you import half your food…

241906 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to annie, 3, #1454 of 1790 🔗

Or so long as they put down the PCR test. Solving this ‘crisis’ really is as simple as that.

241946 ▶▶▶ James, replying to annie, 1, #1455 of 1790 🔗

Ever, ever again!

241842 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #1456 of 1790 🔗

No such country. Holland, which was initially liberal, is now going mad with useless restrictions. Ok, they had low numbers, and they are now rising, BUT they have started to test more and are doing only 1 cycle instead of 3 earlier this year.

241900 ▶▶ NickR, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #1457 of 1790 🔗

This chart demonstrates that the Welsh firebreak did nothing.

241923 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to NickR, 1, #1458 of 1790 🔗

As Catweazle would say:
Nothing works.

242025 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to NickR, #1459 of 1790 🔗

You’d expect a time lag before the benefits, if any, started to show.
Stress on the ‘if’.

242086 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to NickR, #1460 of 1790 🔗

… as expected on the basis of all known data!

241911 ▶▶ Sceptic Hank, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #1461 of 1790 🔗

Australia. Life in most of the country has gone back to normal but nobody is allowed to leave (except for end of life exemptions) and it’s almost impossible to return due to caps on airline arrivals, hence there are up to 100,000 Australians currently stranded overseas – many homeless, in debt, with expired visas.

242046 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sceptic Hank, #1462 of 1790 🔗

That should create a very healthy level of opposition, once they all do get home.

241920 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1463 of 1790 🔗

Tanzania.
And Nicaragua achieved the same without any lockdowns, nor masks.

241832 annie, replying to annie, 6, #1464 of 1790 🔗

Grauniad tells the truth for once:

“Britain has government by diktat and bullshit.”

Link as in Ewan Duffy’s earlier post – for which my thsnks.

241859 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to annie, 3, #1465 of 1790 🔗

9 months late but it’s a start.The more people who wake up to the coup we are experiencing the better.

242011 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, 2, #1466 of 1790 🔗

Yes. I’ve noticed some less compliant reposting in the Graun recently. This is a corker:

Given the above, the government’s expensive spin doctors should be asked how best to cover up the cronyism, the chiselling, the incompetence and the drift towards a police state. Britain has government by diktat and bullshit.

242020 ▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Cheezilla, #1467 of 1790 🔗

Nothing sceptical has percolated through to its leader columns:
‘A second problem, as perverse as it might seem, could be vaccine rejection. More work is needed to counter the general anti-vaccine sentiment that has been on the rise in many places. Other people will have reasonable concerns about this specific one, given how recently and quickly it has been developed. Clear, comprehensive and easily understandable public information is the best response: making clear the benefits, dispelling myths and reassuring individuals as to safety. ‘
If only the Guardian would take its own medicine.

241834 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 18, #1468 of 1790 🔗

Latest from the Valley of Death a.k.a. The High Peak

We had a very atmospheric hill-walk to the shops. The hills were black and brooding – very appropriate we thought!

100% zombie-collaboration in the stores, barring the occasional bare-face with lanyard and us (we no longer wear them). Hardly any in the street though and no hassle but it was truly depressing and I let slip a couple of comments. We also noticed that swerving is back in fashion.

We then visited an independent food shop. The owner is cracking up. He has bought a plastic ‘NO MASK NO ENTRY’ sign to greet you at the door. When I queried it on the grounds that some people, like us, are exempt, he told me he’d had someone in who won’t wear a mask and ‘gave him grief’. I pointed out that people don’t have to explain and then he went off on one: I got the full ‘people are dying – my mate’s Dad has just died of Covid, we have to wear masks to protect people’, etc. etc. I kept my cool and invited him to keep some perspective. I told him that we know several people who have died in the last year and, sad as it is, we really do have to accept this, just like we all used to. Not to mention that around 1700 people die every day in the UK. My clinching argument was that an elderly friend has just been diagnosed with lung cancer (it’s true) and what did he give her chances in the current covid-obsessed NHS?

He calmed down then, took his nappy off and was happy to tell us that excess mortality is nothing special but then, ‘There’s 30 ‘cases’ round here and some of them are really poorly.’ Sure there are, we believe that, honestly. He wandered off and his elderly Dad who was wearing an instrument of torture we’ve not seen before: a horrible plastic thing which was clamped to his mouth, took over our purchases. He told Alan in an undertone that the ‘mate’s Dad’ was about 80, obese and with serious health issues and that he hadn’t died ‘of Covid’ anyway.

We concluded that, since Sonny Boy has been working flat-out since March, making a mint from deliveries and greatly expanding his shop, he is probably completely exhausted and can’t think straight. It worries us though that this man sees many people every day and is spreading panic and fear to his customers, not to mention picking fights with non-mask wearers unnecessarily. Interestingly, Dad and the other 2 staff were, as ever, really friendly to us and we wonder if they enjoy our attitude as it could be a counter-weight to the Dandelion-in-Chief.

If we can do it tactfully, we’ll try and suggest he gets a break next time we go. MW

242081 ▶▶ RickH, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #1469 of 1790 🔗

I kept my cool”

This is the difficult bit – but absolutely right.

242346 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #1470 of 1790 🔗

A very interesting post.