2020-11-14

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/11/14/latest-news-193/
Published2020-11-14T03:19:37
Last updated2020-11-14T11:25:09
Scraped2020-12-20T20:18:11
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245685 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 84, #1 of 1519 🔗

2019: “What is Schrodinger’s paradox?” “Well, imagine a cat in a box and we don’t know if it’s alive or dead. It’s both at the same time.”

2020: “What is Schrodinger’s paradox?” “Well, imagine a covid test and we don’t know if it’s positive or not. It’s both at the same time.”

245720 ▶▶ Stuart, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 15, #2 of 1519 🔗

2021: The Borisian Paradox. Crashing Icarus and soaring Phoenix at one and the same time, or arse about face.

245736 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Stuart, 13, #3 of 1519 🔗

Boris Januson

245798 ▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 5, #4 of 1519 🔗

Ha! This is great mate.
BTW GANG, if you get a moment, check out our podcast about how flipping crazy all this is!
https://therealnormalpodcast.buzzsprout.com/

245901 ▶▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 5, #5 of 1519 🔗

Is that the whooping cough non-event? It’s probably never going to be as famous as ‘The Great Covid Calamity’ will one day be.

246001 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 4, #6 of 1519 🔗

The paradox is that the government thinks there is no paradox.

245686 Cheshirecatslave, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 59, #7 of 1519 🔗

Good morning everyone and here’s another day in mad corona land. I was reading the study about the trainee marines who caught it despite strict military quarantine which shows how useless all the rules are. I’m so sick of people saying it would be over if people “followed the rules and wore masks.”
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2029717
The transmission rate in this study is higher than in Liverpool. Maybe some false positives?

245695 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 114, #8 of 1519 🔗

I agree. One of my customers who, ordinarily, I really like (and she has the most adorable dog) keeps on saying that if “people just behaved themselves, then we could go back to normal” Behaved???? I’m not sure if she was having a sly dig at people like me who refuse to wear a mask (whilst, weirdly, taking advantage of the fact that my shop remains open). But this thinking is insidious and is becoming increasingly divisive.

245700 ▶▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to kh1485, 19, #9 of 1519 🔗

I could not agree more.

245704 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to kh1485, 62, #10 of 1519 🔗

My hairdresser-see below-said “I just want people to follow the rules”.

The library assistants whom I know well ,recently told me that they fully accepted lanyards and exemption badges, but resented people who visit shops bare faced and without lanyards.

This is what is so divisive,as you rightly say kh.

Rather than wishing to join the resistance, many people direct their anger at the rebels.

I can’t see this changing any time soon, at least not here.

245706 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to wendyk, 73, #11 of 1519 🔗

Same here wendyk. Compliance and mask zealotry are seemingly increasing. I am trying, in my own cack-handed way, to effect some conversions – but it’s not easy. Heard the refrain so many times “well, it doesn’t really affect me” And I reply “Oh, but it does, you are surrendering your liberty, your children’s liberty and your grandchildren’s liberty” Doesn’t always go down well but I can’t keep silent on this.

245709 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to kh1485, 20, #12 of 1519 🔗

Exactamundo kh, I try, but breeching the compliance carapace is not progressing.

245792 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to kh1485, 44, #13 of 1519 🔗

Bear in mind that people who loathe muzzles, and won’t comply, generally avoid muzzle plague pits like … well, the plague.
So the apparently high acceptance rate is skewed.

245864 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to kh1485, 29, #14 of 1519 🔗

precisely .. people say it doesn’t affect them (my brother etc) but don’t realise the implications on human rights and freedoms now and future!
are they really that thick???

246369 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Sue, 10, #15 of 1519 🔗

They are that thick, thick as a brick.

246585 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Sue, 5, #16 of 1519 🔗

Yes they are really thick, or even thicker than that.

246189 ▶▶▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to kh1485, 6, #17 of 1519 🔗

It does affect them if they are asking ” Are we allowed to do this?”

246381 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to thinkaboutit, 5, #18 of 1519 🔗

Exactly, and they do. Someone just asked if she was coming into the shop the right way. We pointed out to her that as she was coming in through the door, then er … yes she was coming in the right way …! Thankfully, she found it funny, but many don’t.

245724 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to wendyk, 21, #19 of 1519 🔗

Do people you see still ‘religiously’ cleanse themselves with hand sanitizer?
From what I see they have mostly stopped bothering.

245733 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to karenovirus, 9, #20 of 1519 🔗

A few do, but I’ve noticed that now more of us are wearing gloves, the sanitiser fetish seems to be abating somewhat.

246105 ▶▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to karenovirus, 3, #21 of 1519 🔗

A lot of people see a bottle of sanitizer and it is an automatic move to use it, they do not think about it. Why use sanitizer after purchasing your famous sausage roll?

246652 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Silke David, 2, #22 of 1519 🔗

A couple weeks ago, we were sitting in the outside area of the local cafe. A table away, a woman was waiting for her friend to bring the coffee, which took about ten minutes. During that time the woman at the table sanitised her hands on four separate occasions. No doubt, she would have done it again when they left, but we didn’t stay to find out.

246217 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fiona Walker, replying to karenovirus, 18, #23 of 1519 🔗

I don’t mind the odd sanitisation, after all I have taken several cruises and they have all had sanitizer everywhere for norovirus which is fine, a reasonable precaution and I am more worried about that than Covid. On one of the snowflake boards I enjoy trolling, the snowflake-in-chief, who is still washing her shopping and spraying door handles, has finally had a positive test after several futile attempts. She is more excited than if she had won the Lottery. Yes, for some it is definitely a fetish.

246312 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ndovu, replying to Fiona Walker, 12, #24 of 1519 🔗

Too much santising destroys your immune system – that’s my excuse anyway.

246357 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ndovu, 8, #25 of 1519 🔗

It’s not just an excuse, it’s a fact!

246355 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Fiona Walker, 3, #26 of 1519 🔗

Their only claim to fame in a sad and meaningless life.

245761 ▶▶▶▶ Llamasaurus Rex, replying to wendyk, 41, #27 of 1519 🔗

Does that library assistant also believe in yellow star and pink triangle badges or armbands? I’m so depressed by all of this zealotry. What a nightmare.

245817 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Llamasaurus Rex, 23, #28 of 1519 🔗

The thing is, they’re all worried about their children’s futures, and the adverse consequences for normal child development as the new normal takes hold: masked faces, isolation, distancing, restricted play and socialisation.

Many people are too afraid of losing their jobs as well, as the recession bites,so direct their anger elsewhere.

My impression is that they’re all fed up, but have resigned themselves to compliance,for fear of redundancy, taking on the status quo and speaking out.

This just goes to show how very effective the nudging has been.

245775 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to wendyk, 43, #29 of 1519 🔗

It’s depressing to see attitudes like that. Where has the humanity gone?

People should realise that its none of their business if people don’t wear lanyards. As I told the manager at my local M&S when I had the run in with one of her members of staff who bullied me for not wearing my lanyard, “It’s not your staff’s place to be behaving like those from a certain country in the 1930s who forced people of a certain religion to wear some sort of ID.”

246271 ▶▶▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to wendyk, 25, #30 of 1519 🔗

Rather than wishing to join the resistance, many people direct their anger at the rebels.

As i have been saying since this whole thing started, government advice is aimed at sowing division. Divide et impera. In fact, this is not something that only started happening now. Turning the people against eachother has been the survival tool of choice for governments ever since governments started being a thing.

Look at masks, for example. They didn’t tell us “wear a mask for your own safety”. Had we been told that, people would look at those not wearing masks and would think “look at that idiot, taking chances with his life; but who cares, it’s his life.” No, instead they think “look at that idiot taking chances with MY life, he’s trying to kill ME, so anything i might do to him is justified because i’m fighting for my life!” And now instead of looking at government policy, looking at what the science says, people are too busy policing eachother. The police doesn’t even need to patrol neighbourhoods cause the idiots will turn in their neighbours for having friends over.

And then there’s the lockdowns themselves. They’re not locking us down cause they want to. No, no, they’re locking us down because people haven’t been wearing masks, they haven’t been socially distancing, they haven’t listened to government advice, it’s all their fault, not ours. And the idiots get out their pitchforks without sparing a moment’s thought about whether or not government dictates should be listened to in the first place.

It’s very hard to reason with people who have been led to believe that you want to kill them and their loved ones. Dispelling this lie is the first step towards normality.

246319 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 10, #31 of 1519 🔗

The tried and trusted ‘divide and rule’; it’s working all too well.

The manipulation of the masses has succeeded beyond the wildest dreams of the nudgers and their acolytes.

Have you read ‘Alone In Berlin’ by Hans Fallada?

Highly recommended.

246382 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to wendyk, 3, #32 of 1519 🔗

Here’s a review from 4 years ago. Little did they know …..

The best book you can read about living in a totalitarian society. If you think getting out of the EU is a brilliant idea, see why the EU is a better one. It stopped this happening again.

246460 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #33 of 1519 🔗

Yes, it’s a truly memorable book; moral courage laid bare. I’ve got the original film version as well, with Hildegard Knef.

245728 ▶▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to kh1485, 63, #34 of 1519 🔗

Whenever anyone says that I always reply with “we ain’t never going back to normal ,see that mask on your face you’ll be wearing that for the rest of your life and so will your children and so will their children,and that will be your fault ” gives them something to think on

245729 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to kh1485, 56, #35 of 1519 🔗

Yes, it’s depressing.
Donated blood yesterday proudly sporting my anti lockdown badge and I don’t think anybody whatsoever even noticed and I have to admit that I haven’t seen anyone else wearing one.
We must be strong, LD2 is being ignored and dismissed and it is the “last throw of the dice” of our “present” government.
STAY STRONG, FELLOW SCEPTICS, WE WILL WIN AND HISTORY WILL VINDICATE US.

245740 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Fingerache Philip., 43, #36 of 1519 🔗

I’m also sporting an anti-lockdown badge and a ‘Stay Sane’ one which garners a few approving comments. Had two people take a photo of my modified ‘Freedom is in Peril Surrendered’ poster – I checked that they weren’t about to dob me into the Environmental Health and when they asked what that was about, I told them the whole sorry story of us being continually harassed.

I agree that LD2 is being largely ignored but our trade has been decimated by this. I suspect, looking at the weather, today will be another day to be written off. Have armed myself with some books to pass the time: The Alchemist by the piss-taker of all piss-takers, Ben Jonson and Short Breaks in Mordor by Peter Hitchens (who was right all along …).

245745 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to kh1485, 29, #37 of 1519 🔗

Keep buggering on, kh.
All the luck in the world concerning your business.
As always, thank you for your comments and replies.

245827 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to kh1485, 13, #38 of 1519 🔗

About to start on my 2nd reading of’ Catch 22′-a book for our times-since just about everyone in it is barking mad and on the make.

It’s also one of the funniest books around.

245747 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Fingerache Philip., 8, #39 of 1519 🔗

YES, YES, YES.

245776 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #40 of 1519 🔗

Hear, hear!!!!

245807 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #41 of 1519 🔗

Out of interest, did they make you wear a mask to give blood?

246082 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Carrie, 12, #42 of 1519 🔗

Yes, because they will not except blood from anyone without a face nappy even if they are mask exempt, the Jehovah’s witnesses do not ride alone.
PS: I attach no blame whatsoever to the staff at the BD sessions, I blame the brain dead management of this service.

245885 ▶▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to kh1485, 24, #43 of 1519 🔗

It’s not even logical. Hiding from viruses doesn’t make them go away; it simply delays their transmission and prolongs the epidemic. To be fair, Whitty and Valance and all the others have never made the assertion that following the ‘rules’ will make the virus go away; the official line has always been, whatever we think about it, that delaying transmission is necessary to Save The NHS. Many, many people, however, including supposedly educated ones, have swallowed the line that wearing their ghastly muzzles and avoiding their relatives will end the epidemic more quickly. It would be interesting to know how that most definitely ‘fake news’ has taken hold so firmly and what role Dominic Cummings played in that.
I agree that his departure, particularly if it results in a return to Cabinet Government and the proper functioning of Parliament, is a good thing.

246180 ▶▶▶▶ Jo, replying to Caroline Watson, 2, #44 of 1519 🔗

the hydra has many heads

246221 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Caroline Watson, 12, #45 of 1519 🔗

Fake news indeed. Many people have a simplistic and mechanistic view of cause and effect, not just for viruses. So they think, “There’s a dangerous virus about, the government are telling us to wear masks to avoid it spreading, so the more we wear masks the better it is for everyone, and those who don’t wear them are the only thing keeping the virus going.” A simple narrative but incorrect.

246186 ▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to kh1485, 7, #46 of 1519 🔗

Tell her I say, if people went back to normal, then we could go back to normal.

246398 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to thinkaboutit, 2, #47 of 1519 🔗

The Previous Normal is what got us in this mess in the first place. We have to create a New Normal that will never put us in a dire situation like this ever again. All our enemies will not just give up their ambitions, they will just try another angle to tempt us to follow their lead.

246410 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to richard riewer, #48 of 1519 🔗

Excellent point but I suspect it’s the one the Great Resetters will be pushing.

245772 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 24, #49 of 1519 🔗

A friend of mine also said the same thing which shocked me and couldn’t give a reply when I asked her then why is it cases went up when the mask mandate was introduced?

And she’s not the only one as a lot of people where we work think the same thing. I wonder if they’re now doing a U turn as this second lockdown has hurt our workplace even more and compulsory redundancies are now a reality.

245971 ▶▶ Graham3, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 1, #50 of 1519 🔗

All year I have wondered if this pox is airborne like mould or yeast spores. This might explain why the West Country has fewer *cases* because of the prevailing wind.

246085 ▶▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Graham3, 4, #51 of 1519 🔗

But we don’t have fewer ‘cases’. Our infection rate is rising, wait for it … exponentially! Against the rest of the UK, we look like a paradise, I’ll admit, but if you zoom into the C19 map ( https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/interactive-map ) you’ll see that there are areas as bad as Manchester or Bradford! And, oddly, vast areas where the data is ‘suppressed’, whatever that means.

Poor old Brixham looks like a hotbed of The Plague. Actually, you could do a really good case study on Brixham as there’s only one road in and one road out. In fairness, though, Brixham has some real social problems, many of them as a result of that one road in/one road out thing.

246227 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Miss Owl, 2, #52 of 1519 🔗

I was in Brixham a couple of years ago, visited an Indian restaurant – you probably know it if it’s the only one! The town did look a bit run down.

246414 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Edward, #53 of 1519 🔗

Brixham looked rundown decades ago. I dread to think what state it’s in now!

246439 ▶▶▶▶ Graham3, replying to Miss Owl, #54 of 1519 🔗

From the preamble suppressed are fewer than 3 a week to protect identity

246723 ▶▶▶▶ PompeyJunglist, replying to Miss Owl, 1, #55 of 1519 🔗

Isn’t Brixham where all Devon’s Bats go to mate? Unconnected I’m sure, but tickles me nonetheless.

246135 ▶▶ blunt instrument, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 6, #56 of 1519 🔗

From conversations I’ve had, I think our main enemy in this regard is the BBC. Again. I don’t watch, but I’ve discovered that it is are raising hatred against the non-conformists.

BBC worshippers are a lost cause, but even some people who defied the BBC on the matter of EU independence see no reason to distrust it on this. Patient reasoning with such people has some chance of succeeding.

246176 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 8, #57 of 1519 🔗

The ultimate compliant lockdowner – Peter Sutcliffe – tested positive for covid. Where did he catch it? No one can be more locked down than a cat a prisoner. Speaking to someone who works in the prisons, they are all PPE’ed up to the hilt, temps checked daily as they go to work, weekly tests, prisoners confined to their cells 24/7 etc etc. So if the HMP version of extreme lockdown doesn’t work then nothing will.

246324 ▶▶▶ Ndovu, replying to The Spingler, 4, #58 of 1519 🔗

I think he was treated in hospital for heart disease, so he probably caught it there.

247222 ▶▶▶ Watt, replying to The Spingler, 2, #59 of 1519 🔗

It’s a PR puff for the perpetual rolling Covid Death Train, now with a special guest on board!

246207 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 5, #60 of 1519 🔗

I think Australia and New Zealand are also good examples of that problem, if not folly.
Despite their strict quarantines etc., the virus seems to pop up now and again there, even after it has officially been eradicated.
I must admit that I always thought it’s either their approach, although I would have been much stricter but also much shorter and time-limited, or the Swedish/GBD one- the worst one is ours, the Hammer&Dance
forever one.
But the haphazard reappearance of the virus there turns this into a futile strategy, as does the current efficacy profile of the currently trialled vaccines.
Those symptom-reducing vaccines are useless for OZ/NZ/FIN&co with regard to their domestic, anyway shielded, situation, and even more so for their inbound traffic situation.
Those vaccines only make a slight difference for older Aussies and Kiwis who decide to travel abroad.
These countries must therefore either keep their strict 14 day prison camp quarantines for everyone coming (back) into the country in place- until a 100% effective infection preventing vaccine becomes abailable- or abandon their (futile) suppression strategy.

246580 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 7, #61 of 1519 🔗

Positive tests, that aren’t false, still don’t indicate an infection, unless the person has symptoms and if they have symptoms there was no point in doing the test. The upshot of this is that these cripplingly expensive tests serve no purpose whatsoever, other than to make some people very rich and also acting as a job creation scheme.

246789 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 2, #62 of 1519 🔗

There is a really good article covering the transmission vectors here:
https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=240649

245687 Londo Mollari, 1, #63 of 1519 🔗

Third!

245690 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 41, #64 of 1519 🔗

Mobile hairdresser visited yesterday; friendly, obliging, but still a member of the zealot confraternity.

I raised a few challenges to her wish for a travel ban to be implemented here:( she wants one because irresponsible folk are coming to this beleaguered small town to enjoy the sea air and a change of scene).

Me: ‘ the average age of death for a covid fatality is 82, whereas the average age of death for the UK as a whole is 81’.

Then the tier system: ‘ If the FM puts us into tier 4 I won’t be allowed to work’.

Me: ‘ Well, if she wants to destroy what’s left of the economy, that’s the way to do it. By the way, she’s earning about £150,000 p.a. and so is her husband’.

We then got onto the deaths of young cancer patients whose treatment had been suspended; my hairdresser had lost a customer this way.

Then I made the case for people needing to work, both for income and, ideally, a sense of purpose, that hopes and aspirations and education are vital for humanity and that just perhaps, if governments would stop with the heavy manners and allow us to make rational decisions based on autonomy, maturity and consideration for others, we might emerge from this mess.

The poorest and the self employed are bearing the brunt of all this, and rates of severe mental illness are soaring.

Finally, she told me that she would definitely welcome her daughter plus fiance on Christmas Day, despite the frankly stupid Rule of Six.

We parted on good terms, so perhaps there is hope that the zealotry will dissipate.

245708 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to wendyk, 22, #65 of 1519 🔗

Why is a zealot risking her life several times a day by entering other peoples houses ?

245711 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to karenovirus, 14, #66 of 1519 🔗

You have to wonder! However, since so many people rely on her now, she’s obviously adapting and rationalising .

I like her, despite her lockdown adherence and hope that I shall continue to be able to present the many objections and challenges to the dogma.

Heresy is worth promoting, despite the faithfuls’ compliant obedience.

245726 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to wendyk, 10, #67 of 1519 🔗

She would be a very worthwhile convert, my mum had a mobile hairdresser for twenty years and always enjoyed chatting with her.

245734 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to karenovirus, 6, #68 of 1519 🔗

This is what I’m hoping for

246507 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to wendyk, 2, #69 of 1519 🔗

Walter Kaufmann published a book in 1959 titled ‘The Faith of a Heretic’.

245806 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to karenovirus, 6, #70 of 1519 🔗

She likely needs the money!!!

246062 ▶▶ Mutineer, replying to wendyk, 9, #71 of 1519 🔗

My hairdresser of 13 years (a friend, also) asked me for my views on Covid-19. It was a tumbleweed moment followed by raised eyebrows. The day before the 2nd lockdown I had a call from her ‘assistant’ who cancelled my pre-Christmas appointment and could only offer me an appointment ‘late January’. I won’t be going again. I’ve never been late, never not turned up (which many do as she moans about it), always tip and always buy her a bottle for Christmas. The call came too late for me to even attempt to get an appointment anywhere else. Cancelled by my hairdresser.

246124 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Mutineer, 4, #72 of 1519 🔗

This happened to me before I found the present one.

245691 wendyk, 15, #73 of 1519 🔗

On Mrs Arleen Foster: she’ll be a worthy opponent of Sleepy Joe Biden’s verbal intrusions on the Northern Ireland Protocol.

245692 annie, replying to annie, 25, #74 of 1519 🔗

The Goon Parliament of Wales has finally got round to debating the petition to let supermarkets sell non-essential goods during the ‘firebreak’, which has now ended. Here are some gems from the debate:

‘The early signs are that the firebreak has indeed had a dampening effect’
ENTIRELY UNTRUE

‘People complaining about this policy from outside Wales, mocking Wales, indeed, whilst Boris Johnson’s Government dithered and delayed until finally compelled by unarguable science to enter a much delayed four-week lockdown that, because of the delay and the result of increasing COVID there, may well have unnecessarily cost lives in England.’
UNARGUABLE SCIENCE??!

‘Now, we know that the policy itself was actually very popular. Polling has told us that the policy of the firebreak and the policy approach, the policy framework taken by the Welsh Government, was very popular,’
WHAT POLLING?

Throughout the debate, which lasted all of 25 minutes, not a single word was said in criticism of the useless incarceration, and nobody pointed out that it
hsd had NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER in the ‘case’ figures.

Here’s the link, but I shouldn’t bother with it if I were you.

https://record.assembly.wales/Plenary/6619#A62031

245698 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to annie, 2, #75 of 1519 🔗

Let’s hear that Bucharest Rumble…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcRWiz1PhKU

(It starts at 1:27, but the whole thing is well worth enjoying. Cardiff/London/Edinburgh 2021? Let’s hope so.)

245707 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 2, #76 of 1519 🔗

Idiot thought bringing his fake scientist wife onto the balcony would help, twat.

245938 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to annie, 4, #77 of 1519 🔗

While people like this sit in our parliaments wrecking the lives of millions with no consequence to themselves there is no hope.

245694 nat, replying to nat, 60, #78 of 1519 🔗

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/sep/28/professor-floats-idea-climate-lockdown- \

As the WHO and UN begin calls for rolling lockdowns to reduce carbon emissions, the climate change narrative begins to overtake COVID as the world’s most challenging threat. Unprecedented assaults on our freedoms are occurring in lockstep around the world and we are still debating whether Dominic Cummings is responsible for the mistake of the first lockdown? That his departure may make make a third lockdown less likely? I don’t know how anyone can still think that we  somehow stumbled by mistake into this global dystopian nightmare. The sooner we acknowledge what is going on, the more chance we have of stopping it.

245699 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to nat, 70, #79 of 1519 🔗

What perplexes me is why is Lord Sumption seemingly the lone legal voice in all this. Where are all those people who were banging on about parliamentary sovereignty just a few years ago; where are the representatives from Liberty. When our basic and fundamental freedoms have been squandered where the hell are these people?

245701 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to kh1485, 40, #80 of 1519 🔗

It confirms what I’ve thought of Liberty et al for years. They aren’t interested in liberty or civil liberties, they’re only interested in the culture war against the British people. Since lockdown etc. fits neatly into their strategy in that culture war, they remain silent and just let it happen.

245703 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to kh1485, 28, #81 of 1519 🔗

Exactly. Where are all those people who fight for the human rights of refugees and the religious freedoms of minorities ? Brainwashed by the leftist green woke cult I think. It’s ok that our freedoms are being taken away because it is for our own protection. The greater good.

245718 ▶▶▶ Nicky, replying to kh1485, 18, #82 of 1519 🔗

Nice question kh. I cancelled my subs to Liberty back in June when it started to become apparent they were not interested in challenging the erosion of our freedoms but only in supporting movements such as the BLM or #me 2

245755 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to kh1485, 8, #83 of 1519 🔗

Sucking up to Bill Gates and his billions. Money talks!

245846 ▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #84 of 1519 🔗

YES.

245769 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to kh1485, 28, #85 of 1519 🔗

What bothers me is the attitude of my MP, Geoffrey Cox QC, the former Attorney General. As one of the finest legal minds in Parliament, he ought to be at the forefront of the debate on this.

Yet, after a serious of government-supporting platitudes in a letter of last June, and a statement that that he was against compulsory vaccination, I can’t get anything out of him.

I’ve written to him repeatedly, and to the constituency Conservative Association, asking that he explains on his website why he continues to vote for the Coronavirus restrictions. I explain that I’m happy to listen to different opinions, that I understand he can’t reply personally to everyone who writes to him, but that in the interests of democratic accountability he owes his constituents an explanation for his voting to curtail their liberties, and that his website would be a perfect vehicle for this.

I’d have thought that was a perfectly reasonable request. But I get nothing.

I’m coming to the conclusion that he and his ilk just don’t care.

245774 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to TJN, 6, #86 of 1519 🔗

They know they are wrong but have been bought one way or another.
If bought by a foreign entity that is Treason.

245822 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to karenovirus, 6, #87 of 1519 🔗

Cox is, as far as I can tell, a wealthy man. His political career is probably past its apogee. I’m not sure how he can be bought?

I keep coming back to the concept that it’s a combination intellectual laziness, taking the morally and intellectually easy way out, and not caring.

245845 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to TJN, 4, #88 of 1519 🔗

Knighthood, Peerage?

245890 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to karenovirus, 3, #89 of 1519 🔗

Yes, possibly – hadn’t thought of that – titles for selling your soul. But I have no evidence to say that this is going on here though.

245905 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to TJN, 7, #90 of 1519 🔗

E Hoover made it policy to have files with ‘dirt’ on everyone of influence – or make some. This was pre-internet.
Nice people don’t think or do anything that isn’t nice.
But this is another way of ‘gaining assets’.

But even so – the more you have, the more you have to lose – and this is a large part of ‘loss of voice’ in those who are too invested in the establishment to publish a view that risks their exclusion.

245928 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Binra, 3, #91 of 1519 🔗

Hunter Biden’s laptop.

246294 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Binra, 3, #92 of 1519 🔗

In general, you are never allowed anywhere near the “levers of power” unless you have some serious character flaw that makes you controllable.

245830 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to TJN, 5, #93 of 1519 🔗

That’s a perfectly reasonable request, that he at least explains it on his website. They have forgotten who they serve. And, as you say, it is evident that they really do not care.

245896 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to kh1485, 5, #94 of 1519 🔗

I’m going to press the constituency Conservative Association on this again.

A few weeks ago he put up an essay on his website, and in The Times, explaining why he was voting against the government’s Brexit Withdrawal Bill.Fair enough – I was interested to read his comments. So why not for the coronavirus restrictions, which have a much more immediate effect on his constituents?

245780 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 18, #95 of 1519 🔗

Good question. I’ve always been sceptical of Liberty especially when that Chakrabati woman was leading it. But their silence and that of Amnesty International and various human rights groups is contemptible and shows that they don’t care about our human rights especially as we don’t fit their pet narrative and won’t gratify their “messiah” complex.

245927 ▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #96 of 1519 🔗

Every leadership of every interest group or influence has been acquired.
Some of this may be via narratives they want to hear – ie – all in a good cause despite the use of deceits and collateral damage.

If The Carbon-unit demonisation is implanted in your mind, you are already on board with the contraction and repurposing of industrial society to serve a ‘carbon-economy’. Watch the documentary, ‘Banking Nature’ for a glimpse.
Sunak is deep in green guilts, is he really a muppet or is that a learned reality distortion shield?

No one wants to lose, and those with more leverage cartel to effect a global monopoly. While set against the human virus – they hang together, but as it becomes clear we are kettled or neutralised the basis for the ‘unity’ will disintegrate and the Tower of Babel will fragment – if it isn’t already even as The New World Bully harvests human fear to enact fantasy vengeance.

245856 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to kh1485, 10, #97 of 1519 🔗

What I want to know, also, is why Lord Sumption isn’t following through. Part of the British public are all too well aware of what is happening and need some proper constitutional guidance. If he says that we can legitimately ignore the rules, but in doing so we get arrested and fined, what then are we supposed to do.

It’s all too clear what the German legal profession is doing with many high profile professionals working together, but they put ours to shame. I can’t even find a way to write to Lord Sumption.

245870 ▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Rosie, 10, #98 of 1519 🔗

One way is to join a political party or campaigning organisation that has the clout to raise questions with people like Lord Sumption and get some opposition happening. It could be he is just as shocked and confused as the rest of us, wondering why am I the only one saying this ?
The Germans are really leading the way.

245937 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to nat, 4, #99 of 1519 🔗

It’s not only you, nat, there’s me as well. I’m not at all impressed by the new organisations because they seem tied up in procedural knots, and/or seem to act as exclusive clubs (or are simply disorganised). What’s needed is a flexible approach based on small teams and networks of personal contacts. If you are thinking along these lines as well do message me via my site here
https://www.beautyandthebeastlytruth.com/contact-us

246242 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Rosie, #100 of 1519 🔗

Thanks Rosie, I will send you a message.

245730 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to nat, 15, #101 of 1519 🔗

Do you think that was the plan all along nat ?
Get us used to submission out of fear of phoney corony when we would not have done so for Climate Change if Lockdown was introduced for that alone.

245756 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to karenovirus, 12, #102 of 1519 🔗

Most definitely yes.

245759 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to karenovirus, 13, #103 of 1519 🔗

I don’t know if it was planned but they have definitely been able to implement long planned changes in the name of corona.

245939 ▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to nat, 7, #104 of 1519 🔗

The intention and preparations for war can be set in motion – even behind the back of political accountability – such that when any pretext occurs – or can be ‘helped’ to occur – it becomes a trigger for completely disproportionate reaction under masking pretext that diverts from the real agenda.

246236 ▶▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Binra, 2, #105 of 1519 🔗

As with the Schlieffen Plan in World War 1.

245753 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to nat, 25, #106 of 1519 🔗

Covid was always about Climate change, that was the driving force for this scamdemic.

245764 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bella Donna, 23, #107 of 1519 🔗

It does look like it is a trojan horse to get the kind of stuff done that, had they put it to the electorate, wouldn’t have had a hope in hell of being voted for.

245781 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 15, #108 of 1519 🔗

And you can see it from the eye sores in our roads. This seems to be a part of a plan to take us all back to the Stone Age while the elites carry on as normal.

245803 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bella Donna, 11, #109 of 1519 🔗

And to get rid of Trump – remember the USA are not currently signed up to the Paris accord, but Biden is committed to signing up to it…

245952 ▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Bella Donna, 5, #110 of 1519 🔗

Climate change as narrative, was always about resetting a corrupt and insane leverage of the Economy.
Self-illusion set against reality, sacrifices the living to maintain illusion of control – which we can see has two sides – for it runs in fear that WANTS to be kept hidden, masked over and locked down – such that what control then allows us can be our ‘normal’ (all that is left of a hollow parody of life in which to adapt or cling to).

245945 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to nat, 7, #111 of 1519 🔗

Lawyers are usually pictured against a backdrop of books and yet more books. The impression I have always had was that these books represent something. Their sheer volume and weight representing something solid and immovable. But Covid seems to be telling us that they represent nothing at all. Any lawyers here? Is it the case that if the elected government simply decrees a permanent emergency, those books may as well be doorstops?

Maybe the claim is that parliament has to renew the emergency every few months with a vote, but really this just means that the power of decree is spread to a few more people of similar ilk. In between those votes, the government can be decreeing that all discussion considered “dangerous” is suppressed, printing money to bribe the public, generating propaganda and so on. The “vote” can/will be based on false information. And this supersedes all the law in those massive books.

245970 ▶▶ David Owsley, replying to nat, #112 of 1519 🔗

that link doesn’t work, maybe they moved the story. all other sites that cover it also link back to that Washington Times article. The following on has most info

https://www.climatedepot.com/2020/09/28/gates-soros-ford-foundation-funded-professor-floats-idea-of-climate-lockdown-with-bans-on-red-meat-extreme-energy-limits/

246269 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to David Owsley, #113 of 1519 🔗

Thanks for letting me know. I don’t know what happened to the link, it worked before I posted it, this one is working

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/sep/28/professor-floats-idea-climate-lockdown-bans-red-me/

245697 Emily Tock, replying to Emily Tock, 33, #114 of 1519 🔗

I just stupidly entered a twitter thread of public librarians (US) complaining about having to ‘work’ with the public. Very clear that they view all patrons as disease vectors, as less than animals spreading filth. As a former public librarian, I can safely say, “Then you DAMN well chose the wrong career.” I was in Buffalo, NY in July and the hatred with which I was treated when I checked out my books was palpable. I’m guessing none of the librarians on that thread would have had the guts to deliver books on horseback to Appalachia during the depression. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/horse-riding-librarians-were-great-depression-bookmobiles-180963786/

245705 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Emily Tock, 24, #115 of 1519 🔗

Yes, guts in very short supply right now.

Going to be using one of your founding fathers’ quotes outside my shop today:

Those who would give up essential Liberty to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

245722 ▶▶▶ Emily Tock, replying to kh1485, 9, #116 of 1519 🔗

Interesting to speculate what Franklin would make of all this … Of course, I’m here in draconian lockdown Ireland, so the public librarians here don’t have to soil themselves with my germy filth. Wondering if my local library working away at click-and-collect enjoy the mass that is broadcast on loudspeakers to the carpark they share with the local cathedral. Perhaps not, as the car park is now crowded with the elderly on walkers and canes trying to attend mass in the lovely November Irish weather. Are they, too, filthy germ vectors to public librarians?

245727 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Emily Tock, 11, #117 of 1519 🔗

Apologies, I thought you were in the U.S. (lack of sleep and reading at speed).

It’s odd that those working in the public sector are being protected from us agents of plague yet they still avail themselves of the services offered by the private sector. Continues to intrigue me that paradox.

245788 ▶▶▶▶▶ Emily Tock, replying to kh1485, 9, #118 of 1519 🔗

No worries! Another paradox is wanting non-compliance with vax and masks to warrant no access to services – I’m sure they’d have conniptions if the non-compliant refused to pay the taxes that fund those services.

I’m in Ireland for the time being, but I suspect that I will have to return to the US quite soon as I am a US citizen. I am afraid that there might be a mass expulsion of non-citizens when UBI is instituted and my contract expires. The state won’t want to provide UBI for non-citizens, I am thinking, so out of the frying pan into the fire of NY state. Actively looking for a public facing position in New England currently – I would LOVE to interact with the public in person, as I’ve been exposed to many pathogens throughout my life, and miracle of miracles, my immune system always sorted it out.

245801 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Emily Tock, 5, #119 of 1519 🔗

Is UBI being introduced in Ireland imminently? I have missed that – can you provide a link please?

245819 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Emily Tock, replying to Carrie, 7, #120 of 1519 🔗

Sorry – didn’t mean to give the impression that UBI is imminent; but it’s the only possible solution given that the economy has been decimated. Government (NEPHET) is threatening to keep pubs and restaurants closed over the holidays, even. The Irish economy will take years to recover, if ever – I don’t see any alternative to UBI, unless government plan to let the populace starve.

245981 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Emily Tock, 3, #121 of 1519 🔗

Or both AND…
It is possible that behind the New World ‘Order’ is an intent to set such inevitable and dire disorder – that we are turned upon each other while ‘insider’ insiders wait out in bunkerland to mop up and ‘save’ what remains.

I don’t think like this, but I have come to recognise that deceit is always a corruption to the core, and never a tool that can be brought out for expedience and then put away again. For that belief is the deceit that truth can be framed in the minds of others without losing our own.

The good news is that loss of awareness of truth is not actually the ‘death of God’, but a masking over under a false inheritance – taken for self-fantasy (in vain) and given priority in our heart.
Truth is Alive – and not as framed in self-serving deceits (that deliver to only masking virtue over hollow lives, that must hate to love and deny joy in maintaining the dictates of ‘care services’.

246257 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Emily Tock, 5, #122 of 1519 🔗

If UBI were introduced in Ireland, no-one would ever work again.

Before the allegations of racism are thrown in my direction, I am a natural born Irish citizen living and working in Dublin. My fellow countrymen and women have a tendency towards fecklessness and to blame the government for everything that goes wrong in life.

Personally, I prefer personal responsibility and following the Ronald Reagan maxim that the 9 most terrifying words in the English language are “I’m from the Government, and I’m here to help”, notwithstanding that I did work for the Government for 7 years.

246525 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Emily Tock, 1, #123 of 1519 🔗

UBI=Universal Basic Income. Right?

246233 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Emily Tock, 2, #124 of 1519 🔗

Emigrate to South Dakota.

246263 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Emily Tock, 4, #125 of 1519 🔗

“I am afraid that there might be a mass expulsion of non-citizens when UBI is instituted and my contract expires.”

Just come up with a good sob story as to why you should be allowed to stay – it works for every immigrant up in court fighting deportation from Ireland.

245751 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Emily Tock, 12, #126 of 1519 🔗

I no longer visit our library after being treated like some kind of biohazard.

245804 ▶▶▶▶▶ Emily Tock, replying to Bella Donna, 11, #127 of 1519 🔗

I sympathize with that completely. I’m utterly ashamed of the profession right now. I feel the same irt most of academia, as well. I am just at the final stage of my PhD and teaching contract, and am seriously regretting not going for forestry as my second career.

246519 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to kh1485, 1, #128 of 1519 🔗

Yeah, but they’re dragging us along with them.

245731 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Emily Tock, 7, #129 of 1519 🔗

Before lockdown 2 a neighbour was visited at home to be tested prior to a hospital visit.
He was treated in exactly the same way by people who chose to enter the medical profession.

245794 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Emily Tock, 7, #130 of 1519 🔗

Thanks for the article above – really interesting and yeah, shows how much many people in the bad old days had guts and many of today’s people can’t hold a candle next to them.

245702 NorthumbrianNomad, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 53, #131 of 1519 🔗

It’s extremely depressing to read the above post about the largish demonstration, and just as one is feeling slightly optimistic, to run headfirst into the words “when David Icke spoke”. We urgently need demonstrations that do not involve David Bloody Icke or his ilk. Let’s not beat about the bush: he’s a bloody nutcase and sharing a platform with him does nothing but damage to the anti-lockdown, anti-totalitarian cause. “Why not get along to a rally?” Will asks. Because even if I was in the country, I would not wish to have my views associated with that barmpot and nor should anyone else.

245710 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 21, #132 of 1519 🔗

Agree. 100%

245721 ▶▶▶ Nicky, replying to Tom Blackburn, 18, #133 of 1519 🔗

Also agree. It dilutes the message and then some

245737 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 20, #134 of 1519 🔗

Totally agree. It damages us no end.

245802 ▶▶ maggie may, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 4, #135 of 1519 🔗

He is talking about the September rally though and we all know Icke spoke there.. Not sure if he has since?? Living where i do i don’t keep up with all the rallies going on.

245820 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 8, #136 of 1519 🔗

It is. I read ever more posts claiming what is coming next, and which are further and further removed from reality. Somebody from a thinktank or government says something even remotely contentious and they stuff their favourite conspiracy in there, even if they have to drastically modify it first. As an opinion this is fine and can be debated, but they believe it; anyone else dares question it and you’re not “awake”.

This kind of stuff drives many first time visitors away.

246094 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #137 of 1519 🔗

… further and further removed from reality.

This would be you opinion, Nick. Fine. Do you believe it ? May I dare to question it ?

246146 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to JohnB, -3, #138 of 1519 🔗

Indeed it is and indeed I do and yes, of course you can.

The problem I have with conspiracy theories is that they are at best speculation, and often opinion, that have been wrapped up and presented as fact. I even understand why so many go in for them; they’re far more exciting than the dull, mundane truth. Sadly, very few adherents bother reading original material, which might lead them to a different conclusion.

If you like your conspiracy theories, I can give one accolade: I only investigate those with the best chance (in my opinion) of having more than a grain of truth in them. I’ve been 100% disappointed so far when it comes to proving a conspiracy theory right.

246301 ▶▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Nick Rose, 6, #139 of 1519 🔗

I post comments which some might think are conspiracy theories, but I only ever get the information directly from the source, eg the World Economic Forum about the Great Reset. I always provide links to the sources. So much information that is considered conspiracy is hiding in plain sight. Another example is Bill Gates and his microchips – they are all on his own website and have recently been touted for use by Victorian Premier Dan Andrews, yet some people still think that is a conspiracy theory.

246388 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to nat, 2, #140 of 1519 🔗

I’m currently investigating the WEF and Schwab. Much of what I’ve seen suggests a thinktank that has a lot of connections to politicians and conglomerates/corporations, as well as large pressure groups.

I’ve not got around the websites yet, still ploughing through the books. Not reached any definite conclusions either, other than what Schwab has written in his books (“The Fourth Industrial Revolution”, “Covid 19: The Great Reset”, “Shaping the Future of the Fourth Industrial Revolution”).

It’ll take me three or four weeks. And yes, I know any conclusion I reach will be my opinion :o)) …

246601 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #141 of 1519 🔗

You have read more of Schwab than me. I like that we all have different beliefs and perspectives and are all welcome here to share ideas.

247127 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to nat, 1, #142 of 1519 🔗

Mark Windows of Windows on the World.

246464 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #143 of 1519 🔗

Hi Nick.

Sorry, had to go out for booze, chocs, food medical necessities for this evening’s dinner party caring for a vulnerable person session. 🙂

There is an enormous parallel between explaining the covid bollox to zealots, and persuading people that major events might not be quite as presented. Intelligent, good, people do struggle to believe those in power can be so malevolent. An extension of the “The government / NHS / BBC wouldn’t lie to us.” thinking.

Which dull mundane truth can explain 3 state-of-the-art steel and concrete skyscrapers falling into their own footprints ? For the first time ever ? The original material evidence you mention included several world demolition engineers all being adamant that the buildings were ‘pulled’. These people fairly quickly either changed their minds, or became silent. Suggestions as to why on a postcard …

However, one of the ultimate conspiracy theories (specifically described by Icke and others for decades) is surely that a UK government would imprison healthy people in their own homes, ponder mandatory vaccinations, and criminalise free speech and free assembly, all allegedly due to a moderately dangerous effect virus. How are you on that one ? 🙂 🙂

246530 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to JohnB, 1, #144 of 1519 🔗
247009 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to JohnB, #145 of 1519 🔗

As I’ve mentioned to someone else on here, there was a multi-storey collapse in the 1960s after a fire, and there is this one in Brazil in 2018:
https://abcnews.go.com/International/massive-high-rise-fire-building-collapse-brazil-dead/story?id=54846500

I’m glad those who claim the WTC buildings were “pulled” never worked alongside me for demolition using explosives. Conspiracists claim “puffs of smoke”, ejected from the towers as they collapsed are evidence of controlled demolition. Trouble is, these run from high to low; controlled demolitions run low to high, or are simultaneous, like this one in Germany:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYjF9WPyZfg

It is clear from every video, that the building collapse of both WTC1 and WTC2 initiated in the aircraft impact area; any demolition charges there would have been burned away in the resulting fire and could not then be used to initiate a fire.

Distrust of government is a good thing, questioning the official narrative can do no harm. But there is a world of difference between scepticism and believing every single pet theory that comes along, just because it’s come from the mouth of someone who tells you “they are lying to you.”

247016 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, #146 of 1519 🔗

However, one of the ultimate conspiracy theories (specifically described by Icke and others for decades) is surely that a UK government would imprison healthy people in their own homes, ponder mandatory vaccinations, and criminalise free speech and free assembly, all allegedly due to a moderately dangerous effect virus.

Really? When did he mention the government locking “healthy people in their own homes”? Sounds like another straw man argument to me; the first I heard of this happening was on the 23rd March 2020, and I’m fairly certain this was the first Icke heard it, too.

Feel free to disagree, I do not claim that every conspiracy theory gets everything wrong, but the reason behind the theories is always flawed, and they get a lot more wrong than they get right. If you fire off a machine gun in the dark and hit something, it does not make you a marksman.

245844 ▶▶ Mike, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 17, #147 of 1519 🔗

I think you may have a little normalcy bias. He may say some outlandish things and I agree he maybe doesn’t always help the cause, but unfortunately its hard to deny that he actually called out a lot of what we are seeing at the moment.

I’m pretty sure for most of us we would have scoffed at anyone foretelling what would happen this year should we have heard it back in 2019?

I would suggest holding your nose and putting up with David Ice et al being involved with this movement as at this point in time as we as sceptics are viewed little differently by the masses. We gain nothing by pulling him down other than dividing our effort.

Ultimately the sheep out there need snapping out of their stupor as they choose not to look into anything they deem ‘conspiracy theory’, if we choose not to do the same are we any better?

245877 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Mike, 13, #148 of 1519 🔗

Wise advice from Mike. The awfulness of what we face. David Icke is hardly the only person with some way out opinions… how about the SNP, most of the universities, the whole of Woke, the entire government.

The demos are against lockdown and not specifically in support of the speakers. The MSM will always find one basis or another for smearing them.

246045 ▶▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Rosie, 1, #149 of 1519 🔗

The man believes that the Queen is a lizard from outer space. I have a sanity bias.

246088 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 8, #150 of 1519 🔗

That’s what people say about him, but is it true? I’ve never listened to him myself, but one of my friends has done and was surprised that he was talking sense. Someone else said he had a nervous breakdown after working for the BBC and came out with strange stuff then back then. IDK but I’m not accepting what the MSM say about people any longer.

246279 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Rosie, 1, #151 of 1519 🔗

Thank you for your sensible remark.

246098 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 6, #152 of 1519 🔗

Nah, you have a ‘only comrades I approve of are allowed to speak out against this bollocks’ bias.

As above, we need to be a broad church to stand up against the entire state and media organisations.

246253 ▶▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 2, #153 of 1519 🔗

I’ve not studied any of Icke’s writings, but he could have intended the lizard thing to be regarded as figurative rather than reality.

246569 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Edward, #154 of 1519 🔗

Of course he did. The Raelians were an amusing bunch as well.

245878 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Mike, 3, #155 of 1519 🔗

Great post

246023 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Mike, 10, #156 of 1519 🔗

If Icke is considered a nutjob, what the hell does it say about the shower getting us deeper into the ordure?. Give me Icke anytime, ignore his wild eyed stuff but he is right about a lot of issues. My only criticism is he offers no concrete practical solutions for the problems we face.

246048 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Mike, -3, #157 of 1519 🔗

Thanks for the advice, but if Icke is involved, I start warming to Hancock.

246111 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 4, #158 of 1519 🔗

You’ll have blood on your hands, then, NN. But hey, better that than stand next to a ‘LOON’ eh ?

245902 ▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, -7, #159 of 1519 🔗

He is also an anti Semite, as are many of the ‘global clique’ conspiracy theories.

245949 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Caroline Watson, 2, #160 of 1519 🔗

Certainly not all of them, Caroline. I took a very brief look at some and found more anti-British feeling than anything else. Everything blamed on us!

But what matter is the facts, and the facts are that lockdowns kill already and will kill and destroy far more to come.

246026 ▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Caroline Watson, 1, #161 of 1519 🔗

If you use the framing of the intent to DENY conscious and open discussion then you can only parrot the party line.

The mindset of control USES anything and everything to serve its purpose.
The mask of protection runs the racket.

The vast, unprecedented and disproportionate distribution of wealth and leverage (aka ‘power’) in our times is only increasing. Covid upped the billionaire club wealth share by about 1/4 to 1/3.

It is fact that vast differentials of wealth corrupt any system – and capture the system itself to rig it to run as a form of predation on those it was originally set up to protect. For governance is also a covenant.

All lobbies pursue self-interest. If that self-interest is set against the whole rather than seeking rights within the whole, it becomes ‘sin’ – or self-agenda set in enmity and opposition to living truth. Nothing good can come of this – but nor can any escape be found within its framing.

That an action brings forth an like reaction, is that bullies and deceivers evoke a similar hate and rage in others who identify a ‘sinner’ OUTSIDE themselves and seek to induce everyone else to throw the first stone.

To call forth awareness of context is not to appease the bully (driven by fear of loss of face and control), or the anti-bully (claiming moral exceptionalism).

That some who are triggered in fear and hate seek anything to take out their hate on is where a newsfeed of any legitimised hate or fear target can become a generic incitement to take it out on anyone identified by association – be that any form of external identification of race, colour or politics.

This can become the resort by cynicism to exploit the unconscious fear and hate in those who are lacking education and support of human connection, as a form of ‘populism’ that corrupts any democratic process.

It used to be understood – that you do not go there – in a similar way to M.A.D for nuclear standoff.

We (our world) have gone there in terms of the overt and deliberate weaponisation of deep fear – as if this can now be systemically controlled – but Fear runs the system!

246116 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Caroline Watson, 7, #162 of 1519 🔗

He is also an anti Semite, …

That sounds libelous to me Caroline. Got any proof ?

246249 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Caroline Watson, 9, #163 of 1519 🔗

Caroline, he is not anti-semitic. His view on it, delivered to me both in private and in a public discussion is that “We are all expressions of unlimited consciousness, having an experience that we refer to as “life” and we wear a spacesuit which we refer to as a “body”. Everyone.” That is, Jews as well. Not anti-semitic at all.

You are swallowing the MSM bullsh!t which they deploy to discredit his genuine allegations about the control grid which is slowly engulfing us all. Just like calling the readers of this site “anti-vaxxers”. It is the same sort of lie.

246579 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to RichardJames, 8, #164 of 1519 🔗

Anybody can be called an Anti-Semite. All you have to do is disagree with the some of the genocidal policies of The State of Israel towards the Palestinian territory land grabs. Now you can be called an Anti-Vaxxer if you refuse to accept a vaccine that has been fasttracked to save Planet Earth from the deadly Covid-19 virus.

246320 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to Caroline Watson, 3, #165 of 1519 🔗

I have had a look at his work to see what people are on about. I didn’t see anything anti semitic – could you give me an example ?

246078 ▶▶ stewart, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 6, #166 of 1519 🔗

Sceptics need to start being practical. If someone is too controversial then its best if he steps aside. Icke’s voice isn’t essential. It seems to be hurting scepticism, so just step aside. I make no judgment on him or his views, just on how helpful it is that he be prominent in these rallies.

246087 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to stewart, 7, #167 of 1519 🔗

Website/youtube hits ? Book sales ? Personal lecture attendances ?

He seems to reach vastly more people than you (or NN). Unless you have a secret twitter following of millions you’ve kept quiet …

246107 ▶▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to JohnB, 1, #168 of 1519 🔗

I’m not interested in how many people I reach.

246126 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 3, #169 of 1519 🔗

Fair enough, but you are slagging off big-time someone who reaches millions. Doesn’t seem useful to me.

246165 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to stewart, #170 of 1519 🔗

In fairness to him, he has.

246084 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 5, #171 of 1519 🔗

Come along and have a chat with him, NN.

He’s not a ‘barmpot’ nor a ‘bloody nutcase’. You’re just repeating the msm smear line. Got out of bed the wrong side, maybe ?

(And fuck off telling me/us who I/we should have my/our views associated with. Quite the authoritarian.

246103 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to JohnB, #172 of 1519 🔗

I will gladly fuck off. Thanks for the good wishes.

246142 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 3, #173 of 1519 🔗

Despite my strong language, NN, there are no bad wishes.

Just sad to see msm slurs against Icke repeated here by so many.

(Also being told how to behave never works well.).

246218 ▶▶▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to JohnB, 5, #174 of 1519 🔗

All right, fair enough, I will engage, without rancour and without mentioning David Icke: I think that the anti lockdown, anti totalitarian tendency urgently needs a voice that is charismatic, practical and gets the indolent majority off its backside and into gear. And it needs to set a clear and simple goal: the restoration of normal life, with allowance made for protecting those who are vulnerable to the serious outcomes of the covid infection, without infringing on the freedoms of society as a whole. That’s it.

246608 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, #175 of 1519 🔗

I rarely, if ever, bring him up on this site except in a response.

Agree a voice would be good, but until he/she arises, we need to carry on with the groundwork of information, communication, protest, and unity. 🙂

246230 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to JohnB, #176 of 1519 🔗

You can add me to your side, JohnB.

246477 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to RichardJames, #177 of 1519 🔗

There should be only one side Richard – those against tyranny/diktat/oppression. Which I like to think we are all on. 🙂 Ta anyhow.

246671 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to JohnB, 1, #178 of 1519 🔗

Careful

246226 ▶▶ RichardJames, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 1, #179 of 1519 🔗

He is a good speaker, even if you don’t agee with his content. Most of what he says has at least some basis in fact. Also, given the extreme nature of what he says, you need to remember that ridicule is his greatest protection; he was saying that Ted Heath was a satanist while he was still alive, and never got sued.

246492 ▶▶▶ TT, replying to RichardJames, #180 of 1519 🔗

The main thing that bothers me about him is that he has been repeating the same stuff for ages, growing into a celebrity and making a good living from endless talks and conferences but never presenting any new facts or proofs. Surely somebdoy in his position, with the connections he has, should have been able to uncover some facts to substantiate his narrative, instead of always the same old circumstantial evidence? I appreciate the fact that his analysis is sound in many respects, but then again he has also provided the PTB with the perfect excuse to slander anyone who lends credence to such a narrative by mixing in his lizard stories (again, based on nothing but vague hearsay and extremely circumstantial evidence, I doubt he really believes it himself).I have nothing against him as such, I ony wish there was someome more authoritative around who’d be trying to dig up some solid proof of the ongoing subversion of our democratic institutions, as that is the only thing I see that could make a real difference now, given all the propaganda and mass brainwashing.

245712 Laurence, replying to Laurence, 60, #181 of 1519 🔗

Surely the farce is over now. The ‘second wave’ is negligible.

Tests in Liverpool show a 0.37% infection rate. Allowing for a false negative rate of 24%, that’s still 0.5%, so at a maximum around 1 in 200 or 335,000 in the UK as a whole have the virus (although Liverpool is meant to be the worst affected area so it could be far fewer).

So at an IFR of 0.2%, 670 people should die from COVID over the average life of the infection (say 14 days) in the whole of the UK. That’s under 50 a day dying of COVID, the remainder (350 or so out of 400) die having had a positive test in the last 28 days but NOT FROM COVID.

Probably 400 a day die having had a common cold in the last 28 days, but no-one says they die of a common cold !

The King’s College figures are coming down. Hospitals are no busier than normal for this time of year. Meanwhile people are dying at home because the government has scared them from going to hospital.

Look, the game is up. There is nowhere to hide from reality anymore. Does anyone out there really believe there is a significant ‘second wave’?

Does anyone still believe the government nonsense ?!?

245715 ▶▶ Stuart, replying to Laurence, 32, #182 of 1519 🔗

Only the gullible lumpencovidariat, about 80% of the population.

245717 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Stuart, 23, #183 of 1519 🔗

Lumpencovidariat – please accept the Annie medal for the best new coinage of the year.Brilliant!

245876 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to annie, 3, #184 of 1519 🔗

And from me;brilliant and memorable.

245996 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to annie, 4, #185 of 1519 🔗

Could get into the Devil’s dictionary if it becomes common use?

245744 ▶▶ Adamb, replying to Laurence, 4, #186 of 1519 🔗

The chart from Fraser Nelson sums it up neatly and says it all.

245748 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Laurence, 12, #187 of 1519 🔗

Viruses do not have 2nd waves.

245767 ▶▶▶ Laurence, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #188 of 1519 🔗

agreed – that’s why it’s in inverted commas

245778 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Laurence, 5, #189 of 1519 🔗

Not infections but tests and the overwhelming majority false at that.

247150 ▶▶ Richard, replying to Laurence, #190 of 1519 🔗

You said tests in Liverpool show a 0.37% infection rate. Could you kindly explain to me where this number has come from? I thought the testing they were doing was wildly inaccurate due to so many false positives? Genuine question, just trying to understand. Thanks.

247250 ▶▶▶ Laurence, replying to Richard, #191 of 1519 🔗

The BBC, reference is https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-54931723

This very much an upper bound as I have adjusted for false negatives but not false positives, so the infection rate is most likely better than this.

245713 Ewan Duffy, replying to Ewan Duffy, 30, #192 of 1519 🔗

“I can imagine Boris bringing him back to run the General Election campaign in 2024”

You think Boris will be PM in 2024?

245797 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ewan Duffy, 3, #193 of 1519 🔗

I think Toby is deluded if he seriously believes that! He also seems to be subtly promoting Rishi..

245924 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to Carrie, 6, #194 of 1519 🔗

out of the davos frying pan and into the davos fire.

245833 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Ewan Duffy, 1, #195 of 1519 🔗

Boris will clear off once the Brexit free trade deal is signed. Quite how a bare bones deal (likely outcome) can be considered a legacy. Maybe he will try to cut out a new career as the UK’s most famous ex PM like Trump will likely be doing

246077 ▶▶▶ PhilipF, replying to crimsonpirate, 2, #196 of 1519 🔗

Now that “Carrie” and the other ladies in No 10 have so much power without responsibility with him as their puppet, I don’t see them allowing him to walk so soon.

245714 Stuart, 1, #197 of 1519 🔗

The Vote Leave clearout comes too late. Rats and sinking ships.

Will Johnson’s exposed backside suffer an epiphany? Unlikely.

245716 karenovirus, 15, #198 of 1519 🔗

I’ve only just seen Douglas Murray on Sky News Australia last week expressing his concern that this might only be Covid A, what happens if China releases Covid B next year onto an already wrecked economy and demoralised population ?

In the last century Britain was wealthy and strong enough to fight and win WW1, together with our Allies.
We retained sufficient resources to do it all over again twenty years later but were then more or less bankrupt and saved from collapse only by large American loans in return for many strategic chunks of the economy and Empire.

We won’t have that luxury if Covid B arrives.

245719 2 pence, replying to 2 pence, 19, #199 of 1519 🔗

JH:
We have sped up the processes, but not – according to repeated assurances from ministers – in any way reduced the safety requirements. That I think is why whilst we know the new Pfizer vaccine works, it has not yet been declared safe.

MY:
As half the population were already immune & another 20% became immune after infection, who requires a vaccine?
If you don’t understand the foregoing please cease commenting about vaccines.

https://twitter.com/MichaelYeadon3/status/1327396239277699073

245723 ▶▶ 2 pence, replying to 2 pence, 10, #200 of 1519 🔗

Mr Hunt, when you say ‘works’ you know that the reduction is just of becoming PCR positive? No data yet on reduction in ILLNESS. Not at all the same. So pls mind your words when describing it. I’ve heard newsreaders leap to 90% reduction in illness. That’s dangerously misleading.
https://twitter.com/MichaelYeadon3/status/1327394878427443202

245732 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to 2 pence, 3, #201 of 1519 🔗

An Expert explaining the vaccine to Jeremy Vine said the 90% referred to the proportion of the population for which it would be effective, not the degree of protection it afforded an individual.

245749 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 1, #202 of 1519 🔗

So what do they mean by ‘effective’?

245771 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 2, #203 of 1519 🔗

Supposedly reduce the severity of the symptoms which, as we know, for most people are not very severe anyway.

245954 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to karenovirus, 4, #204 of 1519 🔗

It really makes a farce of mandating it for travel, events etc, if it just reduces the symptoms instead of preventing the infection.

245725 Stuart, replying to Stuart, -17, #205 of 1519 🔗

Toby’s weird panygeric to the “career psychopath” is quite touching – another Brexiteer clutching at straws.

245765 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Stuart, 4, #206 of 1519 🔗

brexit followed by a great reset.. like cheesecake followed by a dry rice cake.

245770 ▶▶ Will, replying to Stuart, 24, #207 of 1519 🔗

I am a Remainer Stuart but you constantly banging on about Brexit is really incredibly dull. The country has left the EU. If you want to bore on about Brexit please can you do it somewhere else, it is irrelevant to the issue at hand.

246591 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Will, #208 of 1519 🔗

Brexit is not irrelevant to this, or any other, issue at hand. The Brexit vote scared the @#$@# out of the Globalists. This is subversion and the present scamdemic was planned in October last year under the guidance of the Gates Foundation. Event 201. Read all about it.

245773 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Stuart, 6, #209 of 1519 🔗

Another fan of a sclerotic anti-democratic oligarchical collective, SAD! Try a bit of reading, start with Varoufakis Adults in the Room , And the Weak Suffer What They Must? and Mody EuroTragedy: A Drama in Nine Acts .

245735 Stuart, replying to Stuart, 20, #210 of 1519 🔗

No Old Labour socialist day-dreaming of state capture could have imagined the NHS becoming the National Covid Service, the Constabulary becoming the Uniformed Lockdown Enforcement and the British army the Snot Patrol.

One has to hand it to Johnners.

245752 ▶▶ annie, replying to Stuart, 32, #211 of 1519 🔗

Europe today us Stalin’s wet dream. Entire populations terrorised into complete subservience. But not even Stalin envisaged obliterating people’s faces AND FINDING THAT THEY LIKED IT.

245757 ▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to annie, 5, #212 of 1519 🔗

Spot on. A bizarre cacatopia.

245768 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to annie, 10, #213 of 1519 🔗

The purpose of Soviet propaganda was to get people to say they agreed with what they knew were obvious lies and thus contribute to breaking their spirit. Uncle Joe would be annoyed to be denied the pleasure of that stage now that people are happy and even eager to believe obvious nonsense.

245782 ▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 20, #214 of 1519 🔗

Yes, as Theodore Dalrymple put it (about political correctness):

“When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is in some small way to become evil oneself. One’s standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control.”

246633 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Stuart, #215 of 1519 🔗

Most assuredly one of the brilliant minds of his generation.

245738 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 40, #216 of 1519 🔗

To me the most disturbing item in today’s newsletter is the summary of the general public’s misconception of the true facts and situation with regard to Covid. I have sometimes said to people that the WHO say that 80% of people will only be mild/asymptomatic to SARS-Cov2 so that means 80% of people are already immune/resistant to serious covid disease, I have then been shouted down as an idiot who does not know what he is talking about and that anybody is likely to die of covid at any moment as if i was the anti-christ suddenly appearing in the middle of a church service.
I am not sure how we can counter such entrenched hysterical misconceptions? it as if people want to live in misery and gloom and refuse to listen to any news that things might not be as bad as they think. Julia HB on talk radio is similarly baffled by the continuing reports that the public are in favour of continuing lockdowns despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Has anyone complied a simple non sensational SARS-Cov2 reality check sheet that can be used to counter the ludicrous misconceptions of the general public

245754 ▶▶ annie, replying to Steve Martindale, 19, #217 of 1519 🔗

Anti-christ now presides over church services. It’s the sudden appearance of a Christian that would terrify the muzzled grovellers.

245837 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to annie, 6, #218 of 1519 🔗

I would give that an “lol” if it was an aside. Trouble is, it’s so obviously true…

245787 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Steve Martindale, 9, #219 of 1519 🔗

It is disturbing but not surprising given the incessant propaganda not just here but globally, and the lack of exposure for any dissenting voice, again not just here but globally.

People hear all this stuff and assume it is true because the alternative – that almost every media outlet, political leader (including the opposition), scientist who has TV exposure, celebrity etc etc, is either wrong or lying to them is too implausible and too much to bear.

It is in a way rather positive news because it means that if we managed to get the facts in front of enough people, often enough, in a way that was simple yet convincing, then I think many are open to changing their views and thus moving the narrative.

245990 ▶▶▶ Aslangeo, replying to Julian, 17, #220 of 1519 🔗

“People hear all this stuff and assume it is true because the alternative – that almost every media outlet, political leader (including the opposition), scientist who has TV exposure, celebrity etc etc, is either wrong or lying to them is too implausible and too much to bear”. – Not for anybody who has ever lived under a dictatorship

In the Soviet Union when I was a child we had three versions of truth

a. Prvada truth – this is what was spouted by the government controlled media – on a few muggles actually believed it but almost everyone parroted it, being afraid of the consequences of not doing so (more social than legal)

b. Semi public truth – what people would say to people they knew – provided these people were not die hard loyalists – but were still careful in what they said

c. Inner truth – you would only say to people you really trusted – a very few people

Naturally this bred a lot of cynicism – sadly my adopted home is going in the same direction

246329 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Aslangeo, 4, #221 of 1519 🔗

I have had conversations with people who have started with truth a., moved to truth b. once I have made my scepticism know quickly moving to truth c. in relief at finding a fellow disbeliever.

245790 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Steve Martindale, 19, #222 of 1519 🔗

People still have too much trust in the MSM..
They are only afraid of covid because the MSM has told them to be..

245836 ▶▶ optocarol, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #223 of 1519 🔗
245739 Danny, replying to Danny, 96, #224 of 1519 🔗

Heard the government yesterday assuring us that the vaccine yes has bypassed usual timeframes, but is definitely safe.
Love the fact that most Covid bedwetters believe normal life to be “too risky”, everything from seeing relatives, going to school, going to the cinema, right down to a walk through the park sans muzzle, yet would happily inject this “rushed” vaccine to stay safe.
I wonder how many would be happy to get on a plane if proudly told over the tannoy, “we are running a little late today, so are going to skip checking the engine”?
Bizarre.

245742 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Danny, 21, #225 of 1519 🔗

Great analogy.

245762 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Danny, 30, #226 of 1519 🔗

“Plus we’re broke so we couldn’t afford enough fuel but if we go easy on the gas we might just make it.”

246024 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 1, #227 of 1519 🔗

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju5vOF2_JOs

Bob Newhart on the Grace L Ferguson airline

245766 ▶▶ Will, replying to Danny, 46, #228 of 1519 🔗

I really don’t think there is the enthusiasm for the vaccine that the polls show. No one is really going to admit to themselves that they are questioning the speed at which the vaccine has been developed until push actually comes to stab.

Interestingly, my extremely left wing friend who believes everything he reads in the Guardian hadn’t heard about the Pfizer CEO’s share dump. I didn’t mention Vallance’s shares or Van Tam or Whitty, or Ferguson, or Imperial’s links to big Pharma but I strongly suspect the “follow the money” strategy is the most tractable route, especially amongst the virtue signallers and the yummy mummies.

But, just to be clear, the Vaccine issue is an extremely dangerous rabbit hole for Lockdown Sceptics. Our case to end lockdowns is separate to the vaccine issue, any inclination to combine the two issues plays into the zealots hands.

245841 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Will, 1, #229 of 1519 🔗

Except to ask them post-jab if they would now like to start campaigning against lockdowns and related restrictions…

245886 ▶▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to Will, 7, #230 of 1519 🔗

Try separating lefties from their money. Suddenly pacifists get very aggressive. Look at the BBC. Follow the money, indeed.

245991 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Will, 12, #231 of 1519 🔗

The vaccine issue is tricky in that it makes it easier for us to be attacked as anti-vaccine which will immediately put a lot of people off

However I think the two issues are very much connected – an emergency vaccine is not needed because this is not an emergency

246660 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Will, 1, #232 of 1519 🔗

It all depends on how the question is framed.

246800 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Will, 8, #233 of 1519 🔗

Doing away with lockdowns will count for nothing, if we are obliged or forced to be injected with one or another of Bill Gates’s toxic brews. Bill’s vaccine of the moment is being brought to us by courtesy of Pfizer and the corrupt Boris Johnson.

The Covid-19 event was always about vaccines and that was clear from early Spring.

There is absolutely no scientific, legal or moral basis for using hardly tested and highly experimental vaccines to prevent a respiratory infection, which has now all but disappeared into the seasonal background. It is obvious that the Covid-19 vaccines are being pushed very hard for purposes other than preventing a respiratory infection. None of these purposes will be benign.

246034 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Danny, 6, #234 of 1519 🔗

On UK Column they featured a post advertising a tender for AI to track the’ expected’ adverse reactions to the vaccine, who would roll up their sleeves now?

246668 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to David Grimbleby, 1, #235 of 1519 🔗

Read Jacques Ellul’s ‘The Technological Society’. The advance of technology is inexorable and unstoppable according to him and he presents a very convincing argument. Maddening. We better start insisting which technologies we like and which we have no interest in promoting.

247208 ▶▶▶ Watt, replying to David Grimbleby, #236 of 1519 🔗

‘expected high volume’ of ADRs.

246286 ▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to Danny, 14, #237 of 1519 🔗

As a retired airline pilot, can I just correct you there? A preflight check consists of kicking the tyres, and COUNTING the engines. Four is thought to be a good number.

246725 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to James Leary #KBF, 1, #238 of 1519 🔗

I’ve always got by with one!

246830 ▶▶▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to leggy, #239 of 1519 🔗

Start with one & build up!

246656 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Danny, #240 of 1519 🔗

Or de-ice the wings and fuselage, which happened in Canada somewhere 30 plus years ago.

245741 Basileus, replying to Basileus, 20, #241 of 1519 🔗

Latest from The Bernician. We will know soon.

People’s Union of Britain v Matt Hancock | Application For Arrest Warrant Approved COVID-1984 NEWSFLASH | The prosecution in People’s Union of Britain v Matt Hancock has just sent the executed form, applying for his arrest warrant, to the court of issue.
We have already got the green light from the court’s legal advisers and now we have the chief magistrates’ permission to proceed. They also sent us the form to fill out for the arrest warrant, which has now been acknowledged by the same as having been received.
However, the form won’t be processed till Monday, when it will be sent up to the crown court to be administered and then served upon Hancock, without delay, by the arresting officers, who will soon be appointed by the court.
Therefore, the case will now proceed as directed, unless the Director of Public Prosecutions [DPP] intervenes, which is unlikely because nobody will want to take the poisoned chalice.
However, even if they do, we can object on the ground that the DPP is working for the government, so they are obviously conflicted. If they refuse to back down, we will insist that the case proceeds with our legal team.
In other words, my family, friends and growing army of peace-keepers and freedom fighters, we are all about to witness the most significant events that have transpired on these shores, since Charles I lost his head.
Words simply cannot adequately express the truly humbling experience of the love, support and commitment I’ve received, from people who all tell me that my words have moved and inspired their hearts into resisting this tyranny, for the sake of our children and grandchildren.
Thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for rising to the call. Very soon, our number will be millions.
This truly is our moment to seize the opportunity to build an advanced civilisation, on the rubble of the corrupted one, which is crumbling around us by COVID-1984 design.
In other words, fuck the great reset, the fourth industrial revolution and fraudulent debt based slavery.
In that new civilisation, we will protect the unalienable birthrights of the individual from the tyranny of the collective, to become truly self-governed under the Common Law, as expressed in Magna Carta 2020, an idea whose time has come.
From now until you see the arrest live-streamed on the mainstream and alternative media worldwide, let’s make #ArrestMattHancock go viral on every platform, to the point where the People are chanting it in the streets nationwide.

245786 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basileus, 2, #242 of 1519 🔗

It sounds great if true..
Why has Toby ignored this case in the list of cases in his daily posts?

245808 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Carrie, 16, #243 of 1519 🔗

No doubt he thinks it’s dotty.
So do I.

245828 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to annie, 5, #244 of 1519 🔗

We shall see! It does sound mad, but this guy has succeeded in cases before, and would he really make such a big thing of this if it really has no chance?

246500 ▶▶▶▶▶ TT, replying to Carrie, #245 of 1519 🔗

Please be careful in assessing the impact of ‘cases’… !

245906 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to annie, 3, #246 of 1519 🔗

Me too – I will just wait and see what happens on Monday before I decide whether it’s good news or not. I’m guessing that nothing much will happen – I would love to be proved wrong, but sceptics gotta sceptic.

245948 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to CGL, 3, #247 of 1519 🔗

Yes, he is putting his whole reputation on the line here in the latest ‘news’ post.. so I’d like to believe that there is something in this.. But we have all hoped and been disappointed a number of times before!

246831 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Carrie, #248 of 1519 🔗

I’ve been following this for some time. He knows what he is doing with regards to Common Law and used it with success against Nat West. I just hope there are some honest people expediting the process he has set in motion and perhaps we might be sot of Mat.

He ahs also sent arrest warrants to every MP.

245944 ▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to annie, 1, #249 of 1519 🔗

‘Did he say anything to you about King Charles the First, child?”
“Yes, aunt.”
“Ah!” said my aunt, rubbing her nose as if she were a little vexed. “That’s his allegorical way of expressing it. He connects his illness with great disturbance and agitation, naturally, and that’s the figure, or the simile, or whatever it’s called, which he chooses to use. And why shouldn’t he, if he thinks proper!”
I said: “Certainly, aunt.”
“It’s not a business-like way of speaking,” said my aunt, “nor a worldly way. I am aware of that; and that’s the reason why I insist upon it, that there shan’t be a word about it in his Memorial.”
“Is it a Memorial about his own history that he is writing, aunt?”
“Yes, child,” said my aunt, rubbing her nose again. “He is memorialising the Lord Chancellor, or the Lord Somebody or other—one of those people, at all events, who are paid to be memorialised—about his affairs. I suppose it will go in, one of these days. He hasn’t been able to draw it up yet, without introducing… ‘(King Charles Head)
David Copperfield
Uncle Dick =the Bernician

245968 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Carrie, #250 of 1519 🔗

He included it in the early roundups.
I’m trying to find out myself, as well as other legal pushbacks.

245850 ▶▶ Gladiatrix, replying to Basileus, 3, #251 of 1519 🔗

I will believe this when I see it, and the DPP doesn’t work for the Government he works for the Crown.

245743 nickbowes, replying to nickbowes, 26, #252 of 1519 🔗

I certainly can sleep easier knowing that the nation s future is now secured and that the PM s green woke liberal girlfriend is calling the shots !

245763 ▶▶ chaos, replying to nickbowes, 22, #253 of 1519 🔗

I was the first to point this out.. before any journalist. She is aligned with Davos/WEF because she works for Oceana.. Stanley Johnson is also pulling the strings.. same WEF links. Boris is talking about getting rid of petrol cars by 2030.. just amazing.

Boris has tortured the people of this country. And killed how many?

245785 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to chaos, 17, #254 of 1519 🔗

I suspect she was carefully ‘nudged’ into Boris’s path with the agenda in mind.. Likewise Meghan Markle was placed into Harry’s path…

245810 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, 11, #255 of 1519 🔗

There has been loads of theories about how Meghan got her claws at Harry and one of them was that she was “nudged” along.

245825 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bart Simpson, 10, #256 of 1519 🔗

Yes, I read that Obama was involved there..

245840 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Carrie, 7, #257 of 1519 🔗

Defo both a plant. If biden gets in there is talk of making Obama US ambassador in UK

https://www.joe.co.uk/news/joe-biden-tipped-to-appoint-barack-obama-as-uk-ambassador-255806

245843 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to stefarm, 10, #258 of 1519 🔗

He’s also planning on making Hillary Clinton some kind of US ambassador as well….!

To find out who is in the ‘swamp’, look at all Biden’s ‘appointments’ so far…. MSM, tech guys etc…

247138 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Carrie, #259 of 1519 🔗

The Creature from the Black Lagoon.

246080 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to stefarm, #260 of 1519 🔗

Adding insult to injury.

245962 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, 3, #261 of 1519 🔗

That too. Via a private memebers’ club called Soho House.

245972 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Carrie, 9, #262 of 1519 🔗

Look at the photographs of Obama talking to Harry at the Invictus Games. You can see Prince Harry reshaping into a WokeZombie in front of your eyes. What psychological techniques are being used I would love to know.

246361 ▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Carrie, #264 of 1519 🔗

Poor Harry. He didn’t know what he was getting into.

246030 ▶▶▶ microdave, replying to chaos, 2, #265 of 1519 🔗

Boris is talking about getting rid of petrol cars by 2030.. just amazing

In today’s Mail:

BMW: ‘We’re ready for Brexit and ban on diesel and petrol cars… but 2030 will be too soon for drivers’

‘I wonder whether it is politically wise,’ he said ahead of an expected announcement by prime minister Boris Johnson on Thursday or next week

246298 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to microdave, 1, #266 of 1519 🔗

Wrecking the automotive industries following on from wrecking the airlines, Greta will be pleased.

247085 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to microdave, 1, #267 of 1519 🔗

Tell Boris to take a hike.

247089 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, #268 of 1519 🔗

If a Brexit deal is ever finalized, make sure that being rid of Boris is included in the deal. He’s a supporter of the New World Order, Climate Change, The Great Reset and anything else you can name.

247091 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, #269 of 1519 🔗

I forgot electric cars and more bicycle lanes.

245858 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to nickbowes, 14, #270 of 1519 🔗

She is a plant. Watch Day of the Jackal. It always boils down to follow the money and/or cherchez la femme. Since when does a 30 something with a degree in theatre studies (Carrie, not Meghan, even though strangely she matches this too!) hit on a man nearly twice her age, attired from charity shop rejects. But at least she has good taste in hotels!

245875 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #271 of 1519 🔗

Interesting point

245900 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Victoria, 12, #272 of 1519 🔗

Note how quickly both produced babies in order to create a permanent ‘tool’ for blackmail…

245940 ▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Carrie, 2, #273 of 1519 🔗

Assuming it is dolly chops baby

245961 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to stefarm, 3, #274 of 1519 🔗

He also seemed rather too ‘mature’ for a baby that judging by timings was premature…. Have we seen any pictures/film where the child is actually awake or moving? Or where you can see his face properly?

Could be one of those extremely lifelike fake babies they use on Call the Midwife? I have worked with them on another TV programme and they are extremely realistic – you can make them breathe and move – it’s actually rather disconcerting. But open eyes, eye contact, arm/hand reaching out and squeezing someone’s finger is much harder to fake…

245965 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, 1, #275 of 1519 🔗

And to bleed them dry when it all goes belly up.

246083 ▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Carrie, #276 of 1519 🔗

Possibly, but more likely that the baby makes the divorce bill far more expensive.

245746 helen, replying to helen, 6, #277 of 1519 🔗

‘(although, to be fair, he (DOMCUM) does think that mass testing might be a route out)’

Heres whats wrong with mass testing

1.Test method – PCR- unable to detect infective agent (Evidence: Corona Ausschuss CA)

2. Mass testing operation/procedure flawed no control being undertaken to determine operational false positive rate (Evidence :Mike Yeadon: yesterday to CA

AND

3.Clare Craigs Funnel model (??) shows no correlation between no. of cases on the one hand and number of hospital admissions / number of cases in ICU/ and number of deaths from CV19 on the other. (Evidence: Clare Craig: yesterday to CA).

Very helpful analysis from Clare as her evidence is based upon the data arising from the testing alongside NHS data which provides to my way of thinking a kind of triangulation of evidence.

If all were well in DOMCOMs world of mass testing data ought to follow a particular funnel shaped pattern and it does except for no. of CASES .

Very well worth listening to Clare describe how the UK government has shot itself in the foot with the Liverpool mass testing fiasco.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kANkpqtWLN4

Might this better explain why these lunatics have resigned?

245920 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Victoria, 1, #279 of 1519 🔗

Problem is, there seems to have been NO actual ACTION with regard to this planned court case…

At least Simon Dolan has been IN the courts…

245953 ▶▶▶▶ helen, replying to Carrie, 2, #280 of 1519 🔗

Yes Carrie thats right. They have been meticulously gathering evidence. Dr Füllmich is very experienced, knows whats at stake and they have a strategy. This team will not put a foot wrong ..just wait.. not long to go now..

247095 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to helen, #281 of 1519 🔗

Sue all of them.

245975 ▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Carrie, 1, #282 of 1519 🔗

That’s because it’s a much bigger action. Months of formal hearings, plus analysis of the different legal systems around the globe.

245935 ▶▶▶ helen, replying to Victoria, 3, #283 of 1519 🔗

Yes, Victoria.. its my opinion that the evidence given yesterday to the Corona Ausschuss Committee by Mike Yeadon and Clare Craig will bolster the evidence already gathered by the Ausschuss about the PCR Test itself.

It will IMHO now be a water tight case. The question then is will the powers that be able to suppress the news of the outcome?

Not very likely.

246097 ▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to helen, 3, #284 of 1519 🔗

What’s needed on the other side of the coin is awareness and support from ordinary people.

Keep working on them, one to one whenever you can, and all day long.

246178 ▶▶▶▶▶ helen, replying to Rosie, #285 of 1519 🔗

Yes, exactly Rosie it will can only grow from now on…Found a regional group yesterday which our small neighbourhood group are joining and met two acquaintances today who are very interested in reading our fliers explaining the counter (to MSM) narrative…
People are questioning..
You are doing great!

247098 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to helen, 1, #286 of 1519 🔗

Class action lawsuits. Serves them right.

245758 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 10, #287 of 1519 🔗

This was posted by calchas very late yesterday.
It is a summary of techniques used by North Korea to brainwash US prisoners of the North Koreans.
Parallels with our current oppression are obvious. Perhaps this study was the blueprint.

One thing is does not include was the aim if getting prisoners to agree that one little lie was in fact the truth (like what was for breakfast yesterday) hoping that this would progress to the prisoner making statements against the war and the USA itself.

245760 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 4, #288 of 1519 🔗

Parallels

H/T both images LS reader calchis

245777 jb12, replying to jb12, 7, #289 of 1519 🔗

What a load of shite the piece on ‘Dom’ is.

245784 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to jb12, 7, #290 of 1519 🔗

It seems Toby knows him rather well…..(?)

245842 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Carrie, 3, #291 of 1519 🔗

we’re all in this together

247141 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Carrie, #292 of 1519 🔗

Months ago both Toby Young and James Delingpole were hoping that Dominic Cummings would pull the rug under Boris.

245851 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to jb12, 11, #293 of 1519 🔗

There was an active discussion on here when the Barnard Castle debacle first came to light. My position then, and now remains as follows. He is no ‘genius’ – an over-used term that can rarely be attributed to even the brightest of Oxbridge – and certain people ought to know better. He not only drove to Durham on the basis of a highly dubious excuse, he had already tested his eyesight before the trip to Barnard Castle, which was for what, exactly (Craig Murray had an interesting take on that). By his own account, Mr Cummings had picked his wife and son up from the hospital before the trip to Barnard Castle, despite his wife’s conflicting account in the Spectator that he was on his death bed. The ridiculous ‘Barnard Castle Defence’ was so incredulous that it had to have been designed to take the piss. Imagine how that would have played with an ordinary member of the public who had not been able to visit a dying relative? In my view he should have been sacked on the spot. He was the architect of lockdown by most accounts, and whatever you think of that (or Brexit, for that matter), he who lives by the sword dies by the sword.

245873 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 9, #294 of 1519 🔗

I still think the fact that Glaxo Smith Kline have offices in Barnard Castle is more than a coincidence..

245892 ▶▶▶▶ nickbowes, replying to Carrie, 5, #295 of 1519 🔗

Glaxo have a vast factory in Barnard Castle.

245897 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to nickbowes, 1, #296 of 1519 🔗

Even more suspicious then?

247143 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to nickbowes, #297 of 1519 🔗

That would make a great horror movie. Dracula and Frankenstein rolled into one.

245917 ▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #298 of 1519 🔗

For me, that should have been indication enough for the general populace that this whole thing was blown way out of proportion. Instead, it became a political ‘my team vs your team’ issue and it got lost in the chatter. As long as people are still thinking in those ‘my team vs your team’ terms, they are putty in the hands of people like Cummings.

245932 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to jb12, 5, #299 of 1519 🔗

Yes, Cummings and Ferguson by deliberately flouting the so called rules should of been the wake up call for the population to smell the stinking rat.

I do sometimes wonder if it was deliberate and the catalyst to instil further fear and bring on the barrage of msm propaganda and scare mongering to put as back in our place.

They knew and know there is no danger to 90% of the population from a virus with a 99.95% survival rate.

All smoke and mirrors.

245779 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 23, #300 of 1519 🔗

https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/stoke-on-trent-news/100-year-old-woman-dies-4686816

Sad for the family BUT
The lady was 100 years old.
She was taken to hospital following a fall, where she fractured a bone.
She was too frail for an operation.
She tested positive for Covid-19 a few days after going into hospital.
She passed away, unfortunately.
Her death was put down to Covid.

If this had happened last year, it would have been put down to pneumonia and would never have made headlines.

245882 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Margaret, 8, #301 of 1519 🔗

Clearly the hospital weren’t convinced that she died from CoViD19 because it was referred to the coroner.
Also it has been stated over and over that patients are NOT triaged for ITU, clearly this lady was considered too frail for surgery and ITU admission.
As she was over 80 then old age is a valid death certificate entry.

246076 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to p02099003, 2, #302 of 1519 🔗

I had to report a death (routine) and had a good conversation with the Registrar when she realised that I wasn’t hand-wringing and in emotional torment. I told her that all the death certificates I had seen were cancer or heart disease. The Registrar commented that she went through the very old death certificates out of interest and the best one she found was “Cause of Death: Touched by God”.

245783 alw, 14, #303 of 1519 🔗

Our wonderful Covid only NHS. Truly shocking is an understatement.

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/read-this-shocking-account-and-decide-if-our-nhs-is-wonderful/

245789 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 29, #304 of 1519 🔗

The results of that Conservative Woman poll is shocking but not surprising.

I’ve lost count of how many older people I’ve encountered who ought to know better being terrified of this virus even after I asked them if they had any underlying conditions such as diabetes or obesity. The answer is always no and they still refused to believe me even after I’ve told them of the average age of people who have died, the average lifespan of people in the UK and the average global lifespan.

And if you think the young are any better no chance! Many of them are as brainwashed as the older ones and have a shocking lack of knowledge in basic science, basic statistics and basic probability.

It makes you wonder what is needed to wake these people up. Even after all the refutation of the government’s data has come out they still believe in the propaganda.

As I’ve said before I’ve given up on those who refuse to wake up and they will have only themselves to blame when they DO wake up and realise that it’s far too late.

245829 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #305 of 1519 🔗

It’s always surprised me how the thickest kid on the block, who can’t even check his shopping change, but playing pool he has a very precise inate understanding of mass, velocity, probability and chance thus making him a good player.

245881 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to karenovirus, 7, #306 of 1519 🔗

When I was at school, there were people in the D stream who couldn’t solve even the most simply arithmetic problems in the Maths classroom, but could play 501 darts matches without any apparent effort to calculate the required scores.

245883 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to karenovirus, 6, #307 of 1519 🔗

People do surprise me agree. Some of the most sane and rational people I’ve known are people who didn’t do well in school while those who lack common sense tend to have graduated with a first and have PhDs!

245994 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #308 of 1519 🔗

It is disappointing how ignorant people are given that this is such an important event that you would have thought almost everyone would want to find out for themselves what the truth was. However it is not surprising given the incessant propaganda not just here but globally, and the lack of exposure for any dissenting voice, again not just here but globally.

People hear all this stuff and assume it is true because the alternative – that almost every media outlet, political leader (including the opposition), scientist who has TV exposure, celebrity etc etc, is either wrong or lying to them is too implausible and too much to bear.

It is in a way rather positive news because it means that if we managed to get the facts in front of enough people, often enough, in a way that was simple yet convincing, then I think many are open to changing their views and thus moving the narrative.

246528 ▶▶▶ TT, replying to Julian, 1, #309 of 1519 🔗

I fear the biggest problem is they wouldn’t have the faintest clue what to do once that realisation hits, if ever it does. If media, politiics, institutions etc. are indeed all on board with the new insanity, the majority of people will be lost for an alternative to rally behind. Most wouldn’t even now where to look for news if they stopped getting it from the traditional channels.

246636 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Julian, 1, #310 of 1519 🔗

Well said and there’s also the reluctance to seek the information from alternative sources. It’s the mentality of “if it’s from the BBC/Times/Guardian/CNN, etc, etc….it must be true, they won’t lie surely?”

245791 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 9, #311 of 1519 🔗

Interesting, in case anybody has missed this:

https://tomwoods.com/the-covid-cult/?omhide=true

245868 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #312 of 1519 🔗

This is a must watch video.

If only we can get all the collaborators in one room and make them watch it for their own long term good

245904 ▶▶ LS99, replying to Nick Rose, #313 of 1519 🔗

Thanks – great watch!

245793 paologrigio, replying to paologrigio, 18, #314 of 1519 🔗

Nothing seems to be reported in the MSM about Sweden’s zero deaths on Thursday. How is that not newsworthy? (we sadly know the answer).
And anyone familiar with Jordan Peterson’s work will realise what a dark place we’re in when making vaccines mandatory for all is being openly discussed & advocated. Anyone who would stop to consider the horrors of Nazi Germany & the reasons why the Nuremberg Code is so important to mankind will get it. Sadly fear seems to be preventing critical thinking ☹️

245799 ▶▶ Julian, replying to paologrigio, 1, #315 of 1519 🔗
245818 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to paologrigio, 5, #316 of 1519 🔗

Sweden is suffering from a casedemic – as far as I know they are not actively testing asymptomatic people, but with lots of winter bugs doing the rounds (as is normal) I think they may be picking up a lot of false positives?
It may also be though, that when one person tests positive, their contacts are also tested, which would also pick up more false positives.

Weekly deaths from ‘covid’ here are higher than a few months ago, but not higher than ‘typical’ winter levels of death from flu/pneumonia..

245911 ▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Carrie, 2, #317 of 1519 🔗

How are the ICU figures going? I have a friend in Sweden who is panicking because they are apparently going up. I found a site which shows current admissions, but I can’t find any historical data to see if that is par for the course.

245936 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to jb12, 2, #318 of 1519 🔗

Tbh I haven’t looked – I think they *are* going up somewhat though.. But deaths still within normal levels for the season.

I was following a Swedish guy on Twitter who was publishing a lot of good info and stats, but he now only allows certain people to read his tweets and I do not have Twitter. He got a HUGE amount of flack when he started spouting a load of pro-Kamala Harris and pro climate change stuff, which probably explains why he changed his account settings !!!

245984 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Carrie, 1, #319 of 1519 🔗

What was his name, please, can you check that out for me?
I’m especially interested in the people who are on different sides of the fence regarding covid/climate change.
It’s super-obvious to us here that they among to one and the same thing, and I’m wanting to know about those who differ.

246068 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Rosie, #320 of 1519 🔗

Johan Hellström: https://twitter.com/jhnhellstrom

As you can see, the tweets are protected. I think he has changed the settings again – earlier today you could read the old tweets, but now you can’t see anything!

246108 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Carrie, #321 of 1519 🔗

thank you – I would have been very worried if it had been SVERIGE GRANSKAS who does an terrific interview with Reiner Fuellmich, powerful stuff: You get to learn a lot about the man himself and the background to the class action they are bringing.

https://soundcloud.com/ulf-bittner/dr-reiner-fuellmich-about-crimes-against-humanity-and-corona-fraud-2020-10-20

246101 ▶▶▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Carrie, #322 of 1519 🔗

Thanks for the info.

246099 ▶▶▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Julian, #324 of 1519 🔗

Yes, thanks. I have access to the current (and historical Covid) figures. I was wondering about prior years’ levels.

246120 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to jb12, #325 of 1519 🔗

See my reply just above with the link – all Swedes should listen to that.

246112 ▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to jb12, #326 of 1519 🔗

Tell her to listen to this, jb12. There’s a lot about the terrible fearporn that Swedes are being subjected to.

SVERIGE GRANSKAS who does an terrific interview with Reiner Fuellmich, powerful stuff: You get to learn a lot about the man himself and the background to the class action they are bringing.
https://soundcloud.com/ulf-bittner/dr-reiner-fuellmich-about-crimes-against-humanity-and-corona-fraud-2020-10-20

245795 THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 4, #327 of 1519 🔗

Morning ALL! Editing the next pod today (hungover) until that arrives, get listening to the episode earlier this week:

https://therealnormalpodcast.buzzsprout.com/ 

245796 Julian, replying to Julian, 12, #328 of 1519 🔗

From Simon Dolan: https://www.keepbritainfree.com/post/newsletters-blocked-kbf-latest-update?postId=5faf968c6eb100001788d15e

Newsletters Blocked – KBF Latest Update

Our latest email campaigns have not been delivered due to our content ‘breaching guidelines’.

245813 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, 8, #329 of 1519 🔗

Interesting. I saw that that Eventbrite in the US attempted to cancel a pro-Trump demo this weekend by emailing everyone that had signed up and telling them it had been cancelled – which was not true..

Infiltration of censorship of email by Big Tech now.. Maybe time to get a proton mail email account?

245823 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Carrie, 5, #330 of 1519 🔗

The mindset of thinking you win by shutting something down, weird

245922 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Carrie, 2, #331 of 1519 🔗

Protonmail is good; I personally use Tutanota – superb encryption.

245923 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to RichardJames, #332 of 1519 🔗

Not heard of Tutanota – is it free?

246067 ▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Carrie, #333 of 1519 🔗

The basic version is free, the paid-for version is about £10 per year. I got the paid-for version because it was the same sort of “price” as I would have given for a a donation. Very useful and you can encrypt a message with a password the first time, with subsequent messages all automatically encrypted.

246328 ▶▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Carrie, 1, #334 of 1519 🔗

Fastmail is also very good – been using it for years, allows lots of mail aliases (good for checking who sells your mail address) and heavy duty spam filters, no ads, huge storage.

245887 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Julian, #335 of 1519 🔗

ditto mine blocked also…

245800 PoshPanic, replying to PoshPanic, 13, #336 of 1519 🔗

Elon Musk is now educating his followers on PCR sensitivity. I’ve found this point very hard to get through to people. It’s almost as though everyone I know, who is still on board with all this nonsense, has had a spell cast on them and won’t accept this. What’s it going to take to break the spell?

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1327367568298897408

245812 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to PoshPanic, 16, #337 of 1519 🔗

He’s an engineer, so he does ‘Math’. He’s not everyone’s cup of tea, but he will get through to some interesting people particularly in the world of finance/investment.

245959 ▶▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #338 of 1519 🔗

Yes. It could get interesting particularly as he’s a “poster boy” to so many of the technocrats who haven’t been listening.

246000 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #339 of 1519 🔗

He seems to be a marmite personality, but yeah if he influences just a handful of other big voices, it will help spread the message that mass PCR testing is flawed and essentially propping up the whole narrative.

245815 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to PoshPanic, 3, #340 of 1519 🔗

An announcement by ‘Big Shiny’ on their brand new iPhones.

247147 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #341 of 1519 🔗

Avoid them like The Plague.

245826 ▶▶ IanE, replying to PoshPanic, 4, #342 of 1519 🔗

Yep – so much easier to fool someone than to convince them of the fact!

245805 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 4, #343 of 1519 🔗

Interesting Twitter thread demonstrating CCP may have pressured the world to go into lockdown. Worth a read… https://mobile.twitter.com/MichaelPSenger/status/1270925788389486593

245809 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Country Mumkin, 4, #344 of 1519 🔗

They did, using bots on Twitter amongst other things…

245814 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Carrie, 1, #345 of 1519 🔗

And Imperial…

245821 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Carrie, 5, #346 of 1519 🔗

CCP wasted their money, we were only too eager to run up the white flag.

245960 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Carrie, 2, #347 of 1519 🔗

Even without Twitter bots, the pressure was pretty open, directly, via the media and via the WHO

245816 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to wendyk, 2, #349 of 1519 🔗

Unacceptable

245824 ▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to wendyk, 2, #350 of 1519 🔗

That’s awful!

245838 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 2, #351 of 1519 🔗

Isn’t it just?

245863 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to wendyk, 4, #352 of 1519 🔗

Thanks Wendy.

This newsletter provides ‘some loopholes and highlight the differences between these regulations and the original lockdown. For example:

1. Businesses are allowed to sell alcohol for consumption off the premises as long as you order online, by telephone or, weirdly, by post.

2. The rules state you are allowed to see one other person for ‘open air recreation’. That does not have to mean going for run. You could meet a friend just to chat in the park. There is also an exemption which means you can bring a child under school age along too – as well as anyone who needs supervision such as someone with disabilities.

3. The official guidance is to ‘minimise time spent outside your home’. But there is no limit to the amount of time you spend out of the home as long as it is ‘for recreation’. Plus you are allowed to leave home to buy things from the shops, fulfil legal obligations, take kids to school and attend a place of worship for individual prayer – so bear that in mind if anyone asks why you are not at home.

Our legal experts believe there are some even more interesting possibilities within the framework of The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) (No. 4) Regulations 2020 for those willing to argue their case. Here are three areas open to interpretation:



1. EMPLOYING MUM AS A CLEANER

2. IMPORTANT WORK MEETINGS

3. FOOTBALL STUDY SESSION OR WINETASTING

Read the newsletter for further clarification on the last 3 points

245831 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 6, #353 of 1519 🔗

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8946667/Worst-hit-European-nations-pass-peak-second-wave.html#comments .Which means that the lockingdown countries will have so called wave 3 when they open up leading to another lockdown leading to wave 4 ……

246188 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to arfurmo, #354 of 1519 🔗

But saying the decline in the second Wave was due to harsh second lockdown

245832 peter, replying to peter, -11, #355 of 1519 🔗

The nauseous arse liking Toby dishes out to Cummins is only matched by him called that insidious phony Wolff a friend. Birds of a feather shill together

245848 ▶▶ Julian, replying to peter, 5, #356 of 1519 🔗

I have not read the piece about Cummings as I am not much interested but I am curious to know your definition of a shill and for you to provide some referenced quotations from TY as evidence

245855 ▶▶ Alexei, replying to peter, 15, #357 of 1519 🔗

You may suffer many downvotes, but it’s hard to disagree.

Cummings is the worst kind of what Nassim Taleb calls an IYI – Intellectual Yet Idiot. These people have IQs off the charts, but they’re fundamentally stupid, naive, inexperienced and unaccountable. Most have never held a meaningful private sector position.

They’re collectively in the process of destroying all that they don’t understand.

245884 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Alexei, 2, #358 of 1519 🔗
245957 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Alexei, 4, #359 of 1519 🔗

Cummings was/is probably dangerous if not kept in check – he probably has his uses and talents as long as the politicians using him are not in awe of him and use him for their own ends rather than letting him make too many of his own decisions. Sadly it seems like the PM was in awe of him, probably because he doesn’t do detail and Cummings seemed like he did.

246756 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Alexei, #360 of 1519 🔗

That the Nassim Taleb who produced lots of very intelligent stuff but last I saw had gone full on coronamoron? Or is there another one?

247071 ▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Mark, #361 of 1519 🔗

Ha! Yes I was going to say, isn’t that a case of a pot calling kettles black?

245834 PoshPanic, 12, #362 of 1519 🔗
245835 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 10, #363 of 1519 🔗

https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2020/11/13/fine-of-up-to-e6000-for-travellers-arriving-to-spain-without-a-negative-pcr-test/

Spain introducing a negative PCR test 72 hours before entering Spain. This will be required for almost all European countries.If you don’t have one on arrival,you have to take it and pay a fine as an extra.Don’t think tourist industry(what’s left will like this)

245976 ▶▶ The Mask Exempt Covid Marshall, replying to swedenborg, 5, #364 of 1519 🔗

Yes, why would a perfectly well person risk being turned away due to a false positive result?! And Spain is highly reliant on tourism. Utterly idiotic.

246070 ▶▶ Cedric the dragon, replying to swedenborg, 3, #365 of 1519 🔗

We have cancelled our proposed 3 week trip to La Gomera in the Canary Islands because of this. PCR Tests here cost £120-£150 each and if “positive”, that stops one flying. Not good value. The small businesses are losing out.

245839 ianric, replying to ianric, 3, #366 of 1519 🔗

A common skeptic argument is that lockdowns have nothing to do with a disease and there is an agenda behind lockdowns. Does anyone feel from the first lockdown in March that disease control was not the purpose of lockdown and there were other reasons why lockdown was introduced eg deliberately destroying small and medium sized businesses so that big companies like Amazon have a monopoly, social engineering etc.

246152 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to ianric, 2, #367 of 1519 🔗

Yes. My lead theory from the beginning – though other global powers have their own agendas. It’s easy enough for the likes of Amazon to hand out small cuts to people prepared to do their dirty work for them.

In particular Lockdown 2 seems to me specifically to finish off small businesses and enterprizes.

Listen to this and it will fill you in with thorough research behind it:

https://soundcloud.com/ulf-bittner/dr-reiner-fuellmich-about-crimes-against-humanity-and-corona-fraud-2020-10-20 from about a month ago with Swedish interviewer.
https://youtu.be/XQYzb5_kax8 from 3 days ago, Dutch interviewer

This is mentioned in the very important paper by Sebastian Friebel at ACU2020:
https://veritasliberabitvos.info/appeal/

246735 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to ianric, 1, #368 of 1519 🔗

I just think that the health advisors around the world think the only way to control a virus is to get rid of it and they’re the ones trying to pull the strings.

They all have their blinkers on and seem incapable of accepting alternative solutions.

Some call it groupthink but I call it nonthink.

246962 ▶▶ Cranmer, replying to ianric, 2, #369 of 1519 🔗

IMO we’re in a mass hysteria situation. I don’t think anyone said ‘let’s organise a fake pandemic to kill off small businesses’ – but once it became clear this was a possible by-product, I suspect some in big business helped things along.

245849 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #371 of 1519 🔗

Keep an eye on the name Mark Malloch-Brown – he is a Brit heavily involved in all this..

245862 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Carrie, 1, #372 of 1519 🔗

Enobled by Gordon Brown, from memory, and friend of Tony Blair?

245895 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #373 of 1519 🔗

Yes. He is linked to Smartmatic (see Dominion voting system)

245910 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Carrie, 1, #374 of 1519 🔗

https://www.krugercowne.com/mark-malloch-brown/

An interesting and informative bio from the agency that handles his speaking engagements..

245852 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #375 of 1519 🔗

Ver interesting US election servers seized in Germany

245871 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Victoria, 6, #376 of 1519 🔗

Just received this from KBF:

Our latest email campaigns have not been delivered due to our content ‘breaching guidelines’. Letting people know their rights is considered wrong. Undeterred, we are publishing our latest news here and will continue to find ways of communicating with you all. We WILL continue our important work and we WILL Keep Britain Free. Please see our latest update below and please do feel free to share!

245995 ▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to kh1485, 5, #377 of 1519 🔗

I found their comment about ‘breaching guidelines’ annoyingly vague.

If they’re being censored by their email provider, they should call out the name of the company involved.

246202 ▶▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Mabel Cow, #378 of 1519 🔗

Mailchimp have taken it on themselves to have purge of alternative media email lists. Massive state censorship is underway against any non-controlled organisations.

245860 ▶▶ 2 pence, replying to Bella Donna, #379 of 1519 🔗

October 1, 2020 by archyde
The bankruptcy of the Catalan electronic voting company Scytl is approaching its outcome…
https://www.archyde.com/creditors-give-the-green-light-to-the-sale-of-scytl-to-the-irish-paragon/

245999 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #380 of 1519 🔗

Please explain what you are talking about …. it’s completely impossible to keep up and I’d appreciate a summary of what this is about.

245853 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 14, #381 of 1519 🔗

the fact that he [Dominic Cummings]’ s been defenestrated

He was not thrown out of a window. And no defenestrated is not a metaphor, as is made clear by the explicit claim that this assertion is a fact.

I suspect I will be accused of being pedantic. However, this type of misuse of language has characterised this whole episode of collective madness and resulted in such incredible harm; far more harm than the virus ever could have caused. Daily we have been subjected to people (who must know better) stating such falsehoods as the results of computer models are data; that positive test results are cases; that the virus discriminates against BAME people; that scientific evidence shows we have to do X or not do Y when they are referring to what some hand picked expert opines.

Accurate use of language isn’t a luxury, and expecting it certainly isn’t pedantry; it is an essential tool for any way out of the madness.

246004 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Steve Hayes, 5, #382 of 1519 🔗

I just completely agree. Same in all areas.

Hopefully you’ll like what I wrote on the subject of climate change, and managed to get the whole topic down to 2000 words by careful use of them. What do you think?
https://www.beautyandthebeastlytruth.com/

Have a friend too, you probably like the name of his site
http://www.language-for-clarity.de/english/en_main.html

246137 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Rosie, 4, #383 of 1519 🔗

Your Climate Change blog post is an excellent summary. Unfortunately, the Climate Change catastrophe believers simply ignore any evidence that does not suit them. I have tried to argue with such believers many times. It is an exercise in futility of Sisyphean proportions. Climate Change isn’t a science, it is pseudoscience. It does not matter what the evidence is, the carriers of this ideology just carry on claiming that they are right.
Over a decade ago I wrote a blog post examining Climate Change as pseudoscience, showing it has all the hallmarks: https://viewsandstories.blogspot.com/2017/09/climate-change-is-pseudoscience.html

Nevertheless, I do still engage in the argument. My preferred approach is to insist on specifying the hypothesis and then comparing it to the actual data. Viz: The global warming hypothesis holds that increased carbon dioxide causes the average global temperature to rise. Over the past one hundred years, carbon dioxide has constantly increased. However, the average global temperature has not. From 1920 to 1940 there was a slight warming trend. From 1940 to 1975 there was a slight cooling trend. From 1975 to 1998 there was a slight warming trend. Since when there has been no statistically significant warming. These data show that the hypothesis is flawed, as anyone who is scientifically literate knows. When I present this argument, the Climate Change believer either stops the conversation or switches to talking about pollution or cites a list of extreme weather events as if they self evidently prove global warming (apparently without knowing that there are fewer extreme weather events now than in previous decades) or the what if you’re wrong rhetoric. Evidence and logic do not work on believers; certainly not easily or quickly.

246172 ▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #384 of 1519 🔗

Agree with you. “ Evidence and logic do not work on believers; certainly not easily or quickly.”

So that’s what I was trying to do, to chip away and create doubt in a range of different areas. I’ve a hardcore climatista ‘friend’ that nothing would work on, but this blog, which I have in printed booklet form, does work well in person – and people who know it’s a pack of lies like it as well.

Totally agree – where is the nul hypothesis? or basic observation?

Anyway – I understand that Fuellmich intends to go after this as well. Hope so, and the data, rather than the scientific argument, is the way to go IMO. It’ll be all too familiar, the whole pack of lies plus fearporn, from the covid pack-of-lies plus fearporn.

I like your blog – expressed in different terms but very similar in underlying analysis.

The plan was to reactivate the campaign with street stalls, Piers Corbyn and the like, but lockdown intervened 🙁

246290 ▶▶ Graham, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #385 of 1519 🔗

You’re quite right. Simple plain accurate language is refreshing, and more so for being rare. Let’s have fewer clichés and irrelevant references too. Not every change is a sea change, sometimes an effect is just an effect, not a knock-on effect, an epicentre is not a somehow more central type of centre, and the curate’s egg now can now be disposed of as a way of describing mixed results.

246338 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Graham, 2, #386 of 1519 🔗

People who talk (and write) in cliches, think in cliches; although the word “think” is rather generous. Stitching a bunch of cliches together is often a way of avoiding thinking. Indeed, the use of metaphoric language in non-fiction contexts is generally employed as a way of covering up such lack of genuine thinking. George Orwell’s essay “Politics and the English Language” is just as pertinent today as it was when he wrote it.

246965 ▶▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Steve Hayes, #387 of 1519 🔗

Agreed. A politically nasty thing I’ve noticed lately is the (probably deliberate) confusion in the press between ‘lockdown sceptics’ and ‘covid deniers’.

245854 nat, replying to nat, 13, #388 of 1519 🔗

How creepy is this video of NZ Prime Minister talking the isolation camps there?
Also MPs in Canada discussing the same.

Calls in the UK for “antivaxxers” to be jailed made news this week, demonstrating how the definition of “health risk” can be expanded incrementally. Draconian proposals become policy, pushed to the outer limits of what is acceptable until they become normalised, and on it goes. It’s time to say NO.

https://files.catbox.moe/fbrkrx.mp4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsWK83XUHqI

245880 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to nat, 8, #389 of 1519 🔗

Scary..
I saw Tom Harwood is pushing the ‘no jab – no job’ agenda too..

245963 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Carrie, 3, #390 of 1519 🔗

Pushing as in wanting it to happen??

246053 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to CGL, 3, #391 of 1519 🔗

He thinks anyone questioning the fast roll-out of the Pfizer vaccine is an anti-vaxxer…

He also believes in Biden’s win being a mass populist vote…

246115 ▶▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Carrie, 2, #392 of 1519 🔗

Boooooo!

245978 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Carrie, #393 of 1519 🔗

New radio series ‘how to vaccinate the world’.
Starts Monday 11.30 BBC R4.

246007 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Carrie, 4, #394 of 1519 🔗

Tom Harwood? Deary me – Daily Telegraph journalist who is generally sound.

246028 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Rosie, 6, #395 of 1519 🔗

Well that’s very disappointing indeed. I quite liked him too. Another one bites the dust.

246809 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to nat, 1, #396 of 1519 🔗

UK will soon catch up … unless we can spread the word much more quickly.

We should have been saying no for a long time.

245872 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #398 of 1519 🔗

Wow! Great spot! Thanks.

245908 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #399 of 1519 🔗

Great find!

245942 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #400 of 1519 🔗

Needs to be copied before it gets pulled. For reference when the doctors start saying they didn’t know it was a scam.

245979 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to karenovirus, 2, #401 of 1519 🔗

I have copied the PDF and mirrored it on Panscepticon .

246009 ▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Mabel Cow, 1, #402 of 1519 🔗

Mabel, did you copy the letter from the police, good ones, in New South Wales?

246063 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Rosie, 3, #403 of 1519 🔗

@Rosie: I have published a copy of the NSW police open letter on Panscepticon .

246181 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Mabel Cow, #404 of 1519 🔗

That’s great – fantastic job you are doing there Mabel.
Thank you, it’s important work.

At a brainstorming meeting a few days ago, it was felt that a site that has the best of the ‘witness statements’ such as the nurse who publicly retired, a GP, a carehome worker, Arnie’s tragic story – the human witnesses rather than data tables, would be good and I mentioned your site

245946 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Tom Blackburn, 9, #405 of 1519 🔗

Just making a note of the article here, so it’s easier to find in the future.

Covid-19: politicisation, “corruption,” and suppression of science , editorial by Kamran Abbasi (executive editor), BMJ, 2020-11-13.

Excerpt:

“Science is being suppressed for political and financial gain. Covid-19 has unleashed state corruption on a grand scale, and it is harmful to public health. Politicians and industry are responsible for this opportunistic embezzlement. So too are scientists and health experts. The pandemic has revealed how the medical-political complex can be manipulated in an emergency—a time when it is even more important to safeguard science.”

246065 ▶▶ BJJ, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #406 of 1519 🔗

It doesn´t get any more main stream than this. Tide is turning.

245859 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 5, #407 of 1519 🔗

What were they arguing about at No10?

Pure speculation on my part

Whitty and Vallance come out and say the positive PCR tests are false positives. Why?

The Liverpool tests
ICU bed occupancy
The Flu numbers… we cannot have eradicated flu….fact
Total deaths for the year from all causes
There is no correlation between the PCR based ‘second wave’ and the above four.

The existence of a second wave is a PCR based myth

So what happened?

I suspect Cain and Cummins were for no deviation of policy. After all they know to admit to the above would be to admit to the biggest mistake ever by a British ‘government’

This weekend could prove interesting

245929 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Cecil B, 4, #408 of 1519 🔗

We may never know, but Whitty and Vallance have seemed pretty keen on frightening the public with what they must have known were unlikely scenarios

246013 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Cecil B, 2, #409 of 1519 🔗

We can only hope that these are the things being argued and discussed. Of course it could be of a more domestic and mundane nature.

245861 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 12, #410 of 1519 🔗

Sometimes you just wonder if things get too much and we don’t want to see it. The death of Sutcliffe and the money his incarcerated life cost the tax payer, plus the celebrities who visited him, compared to the innocent elderly the Covid NHS has deserted. The outcry is never big enough about the injustices that go on.

245865 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Dan Clarke, 10, #411 of 1519 🔗

Yes, just seen that. Absolutely disgusting. No surprise that Savile was one of his visitors. I lived in two of the towns where Sutcliffe went on his murderous sprees. His photo still chills me to the bone.

246488 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to kh1485, #412 of 1519 🔗

Many years ago, while in my teens, I went to Manchester to stay with a pen pal:( whatever happened to pen pals)?
.
While reminiscing a while back, I realised that I’d been in Manchester while Brady and Hindley were going about their evil business.

245866 Caroline Watson, replying to Caroline Watson, 12, #413 of 1519 🔗

The Protected Characteristics in the Equality Act 2010 are Sex, Race, Disability, Age, Religion and Belief, Sexual Orientation and Undergoing Gender Reassignment. There is no Protected Characteristic of ‘gender identity’, nor should there be. It is an indication of the policy capture of public institutions by Stonewall, Mermaids and others that many people now believe that ‘gender identity’ gives rights under the Equality Act. It doesn’t.
Undergoing Gender Reassignment was included to protect people from dismissal (and the Equality Act is overwhelmingly used at Employment Tribunals) for wearing the ‘wrong’ clothes or having time off for medical ‘treatment’ for ‘gender dysphoria’. Although many of us would question whether the concept of ‘gender’ should appear in legislation at all, most of us would probably be agree that people should be allowed to dress as they choose and obtain medical treatment for a psychological disorder. The Act does not, however, protect the right of an individual to pretend to be the other sex, in the workplace or elsewhere, when that involves using single sex facilities, such as lavatories and changing rooms. Cases under the Equality Act are based on the difference in treatment between the complainant and a comparator, who is someone who does not belong to the Protected Characteristic. So, if an employer required those ‘undergoing gender reassignment’ to go to the lavatory in a shed in the carpark, whilst colleagues used male and female lavatories inside the building, that would be discrimination under the Act. Requiring a biological male to use the male lavatories is not.
It is vital that Sex remains a Protected Characteristic under the Act and that both females and males have the right to single sex facilities for private functions such as going to the lavatory, changing and sleeping.

245888 ▶▶ vargas99, replying to Caroline Watson, 7, #414 of 1519 🔗

Perhaps we need to reimagine ourselves – Church of the Lockdown Sceptics perhaps?

246496 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Caroline Watson, #415 of 1519 🔗

Very well said and I am truly worried about where all this legal chicanery will lead us.

If this so called protection is taken to its limit,my fear is that child molesters will seek some kind of immunity and denounce any condemnation of their horrible habits as hate speech.

Apparently,some twitter users have taken to describing themselves as MAPs -Minor Attracted Persons.

I don’t use any form of social media so cannot confirm this, but if true, it’s all too reminiscent of the Paedophile Information Exchange and its campaigns in the 80s.

The determination to eliminate all hitherto commonly accepted social,sexual and personal boundaries will lead us into a very dark place, if allowed to proceed, alongside the creeping censorship which we now see and object too.

246557 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to Caroline Watson, 2, #416 of 1519 🔗

This is all true of course but what can we do? There’s a bloke at my office who uses the ladies loos now he’s not cut his hair in a while and starting wearing blouses. I can’t say anything for fear of being labelled unkind/transphobic. It’d be better to admit to being a Nazi these days than that.

245867 PhilipF, replying to PhilipF, 8, #417 of 1519 🔗

This guy was 90 years ahead of his time. I must say, though, that the combination of that very stylish jacket, dark glasses and all-over bandages is pretty damn cool.

245869 ▶▶ PhilipF, replying to PhilipF, 7, #418 of 1519 🔗

And this guy was 140 years ahead of his time. Not quite such a successful look.

245879 Adamb, replying to Adamb, 6, #419 of 1519 🔗

The British Heart Foundation are reporting 4,622 “excess” deaths in England between the start of the first lockdown and mid October. I’m surprised it’s not more to be honest.

245903 ▶▶ assoc, replying to Adamb, 5, #420 of 1519 🔗

Excess deaths from heart disease I assume, not all causes.
It seems very low, statistically insignificant

245941 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to assoc, 1, #421 of 1519 🔗

I don’t know what the annual total is, but I wouldn’t say nearly 5,000 in a short space of time is insignificant if you imagine the effects may carry on for a while and you add in avoidable deaths from cancer and other causes.

245919 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Adamb, 2, #422 of 1519 🔗

All “on the Covid side” apparently and nothing to do with scary witless the population at large, restricting GP access, working from home (less exercise), preventing old people from seeing their loved ones, or having a debilitating national lockdown where many will fall into bad habits.
That’s according to Twhatty. What has Sweden’s experience been on heart disease excess deaths I wonder.

245889 Nottingham69, #423 of 1519 🔗

Wolff’s books were not good. Biased hit pieces as per order.

245891 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 3, #424 of 1519 🔗

Don’t know what adverts your getting, but I have one listing the best ten plumbers in Aberdare

I didn’t know there were ten plumbers in Aberdare, and anyway who decided the rankings?

PS. It would take the best part of a day to get here from Aberdare

245899 ▶▶ Adamb, replying to Cecil B, 2, #425 of 1519 🔗

“A mask with exceptional breathability and comfort and free shipping”. Ideal target audience.

245909 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Adamb, 1, #426 of 1519 🔗

Order me a gross for the third wave

245916 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Adamb, #427 of 1519 🔗

I got similar from Amazon when ordering Mask Exempt Lanyards.

245893 CGL, replying to CGL, 5, #428 of 1519 🔗

Apologies if already posted but this is Prof Sucharit Bhakdi on Triggernometry – worth sharing with non-sceptics

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=ZnpnBYgGARE

245915 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to CGL, 1, #429 of 1519 🔗

Thank, subscribed and saved for later.

245894 nottingham69, #430 of 1519 🔗

Wolff’s books were not good. Bought and paid for hit jobs.

245898 RichardJames, 6, #431 of 1519 🔗

Brilliant quotation from The Critic article; “…but the only way to stop the Wildlings drinking themselves senseless and staggering all over the battlefield is to confine the entire country to barracks. They’ve run out of ideas, although they never really had any to begin with.”

It conjures up a truly hilarious mental image.

245907 hat man, replying to hat man, 9, #432 of 1519 🔗

Re today’s Bob cartoon – ‘Now, who wants to have a go at steering?’

WHO is already steering.

245912 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to hat man, 6, #433 of 1519 🔗

That clearly is not the case. The World Health Organisation has been constantly behind in the lockdown madness. One example is the issue of face mask wearing by the general population, The World Health Organisation only reversed its recommendation on this on 8 June 20202 as a result of political lobbying, as even the BBC reported.

245926 ▶▶▶ hat man, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #434 of 1519 🔗

WHO 24th April 2020: ‘Governments and public health authorities must begin to envision, and plan for, the subsequent stages of their response strategy, with the ultimate aim of reaching and maintaining a state of low-level or no transmission.’

https://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/health-emergencies/coronavirus-covid-19/publications-and-technical-guidance/2020/strengthening-and-adjusting-public-health-measures-throughout-the-covid-19-transition-phases.-policy-considerations-for-the-who-european-region,-24-april-2020-produced-by-whoeurope

Cue to governments to aim for elimination of the virus instead of just flattening the curve.

246187 ▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to hat man, 2, #435 of 1519 🔗

Susan Lundie, avowed communist and SAGE member, started tweeting about virus elimination, about that time iIrc.

246003 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to alw, 1, #437 of 1519 🔗

Thank you for pointing out the update.

The update didn’t indicate which platforms were blocking the newsletter – is this the usual Twitter and Facebook problem or is it more widely spread? It is truly sinister that this sort of thing is happening.

246330 ▶▶▶ dickyboy, replying to Ozzie, 1, #438 of 1519 🔗

I suspect it is bulk email provider Mailchimp.

246442 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to dickyboy, #439 of 1519 🔗

Think you are right.

Stay away from mail chimp – when they cancel you, you have no access to your own subscribers

246865 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to dickyboy, #440 of 1519 🔗

Could be. When I went to watch War Room this afternoon I got a pop-up suggesting I subscribe so I don’t miss any updates – when I clicked on it I got another pop-up saying ‘service not available’, and it mentioned that the service is run by Mailchimp.

Big Tech is trying everything to take War Room down because they are clearly not following the desired ‘narrative’…

245914 Ovis, replying to Ovis, 2, #441 of 1519 🔗

The Law Commission is working to undermine ‘fundamental British values.’ It is tempting to play them at their own game. Petition for the Law Commission to be added to the list of banned organisations.

As a bonus, they must have some assets (physical as well as pension fund, etc.) which could be confiscated and used to ameliorate -very slightly – the present financial catastrophe.

245925 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to Ovis, 3, #442 of 1519 🔗

As a more moderate alternative, campaign to defund the Law Commission, by analogy with the BLM campaign to defund the police.

245934 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Ovis, 2, #443 of 1519 🔗

What did the police ever do to British Leyland Motors to deserve that?

245921 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 1, #444 of 1519 🔗

New advert

‘How much does it cost to be cremated in Aberdare’

Didn’t tap on it so I suppose the answer is ‘Feck knows’

245930 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 6, #445 of 1519 🔗

It’s getting boring now, waiting for the pig dictators reign of terror to implode

245985 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Cecil B, 1, #446 of 1519 🔗

Can’t be long,they are infighting in the bunker.

245988 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Cecil B, 1, #447 of 1519 🔗

Aberdare should have a name change.

In the age of ‘stay safe’, nobday ‘dares’ anything.

246017 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to calchas, 3, #448 of 1519 🔗

The locals refer to it as Hardtobear

245931 dommo, replying to dommo, 18, #449 of 1519 🔗

outraged! received an e-mail from NatWest titled “Putting you first in the second wave” – FFS!!!

needless to say an instant flaming e-mail was returned threatening to take my business elsewhere if i ever receive anything like that from them again…

245951 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to dommo, 13, #450 of 1519 🔗

Jesus wept.

Why don’t companies concentrate on providing good customer service rather than lecture us about things that are not of their concern or peddling government propaganda?

245983 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Bart Simpson, 9, #451 of 1519 🔗

Good point

Probably because providing good customer service requires effort

246768 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Julian, 1, #452 of 1519 🔗

Yep. It’s too hard to do their REAL jobs but easy to stick their nose into something that has nothing to do with them.

245967 ▶▶ dhid, replying to dommo, #453 of 1519 🔗

Yes, I got one of those too – bloody ridiculous,

246019 ▶▶ dorset dumpling, replying to dommo, 3, #454 of 1519 🔗

We’ve both had them too and were equally annoyed. They closed our nearest branch 18 months ago and so now we are forced to join the hordes in the nearest big town quite a drive away. Also, it’s still virtually impossible to get through on their oldies line at any time unless you are prepared to wait for an hour or more. We have been sorely tempted to change banks (to Lloyds) but at present can’t be doing with the hassle.

245933 TyRade, 3, #455 of 1519 🔗

I’ve just rewatched the post WW1 public school drama ‘To Serve Them All My Days’ on youtube. I was reminded how much Boris is morphing into the role of Headmaster Alcock. Almost his sole preoccupation was policing ‘unnatural relationships’ between the boys.These consisted of walking too closely, conversing, laughing and otherwise enjoying a normal life (at school). Alcock urged his housemasters to produce lists of these ‘unnatural relationships’; their refusal contributed to his demise. Oh, and the main character had a string of pathetic ‘relationships’ with females, most of whom detected ‘microaggessions’ at 100 miles from the male sanctuary of the school. Two of these met premature ends. All cock.

245943 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 9, #456 of 1519 🔗

Just had to mock tell off a punter who launched into a slight variation of the Flanagan and Allen song, ‘Underneath the Arches’ – ‘Underneath the Bandstand’ where he is now sitting with his flat white and crumpets!

246041 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to kh1485, 3, #457 of 1519 🔗

And my snitch antennae is twitching: local councillor outside watching us carefully.

246264 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to kh1485, #458 of 1519 🔗

I don’t get it. You pay business rates? Does the local council benefit from those? Why would they not want you to succeed?
My local town has seen so many shops close this year. Mainly independent clothes shops, moving online, after they spent thousands on fitting out the shops. So sad.

246287 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Silke David, 1, #459 of 1519 🔗

Neither do I. As far as I am concerned they are there to serve us, but they see it the other way round. And also it is because I do not ‘believe’ and I need to be punished. Instructive that earlier in the week, my blackboard piss-takery – which some bastard photographed and sent to the council – was given as evidence that I was encouraging dissent.

245947 Hivemind, replying to Hivemind, 5, #460 of 1519 🔗

Why are we talking about ‘the quad’? ‘Gang of Four’ is much more appropriate.

245956 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Hivemind, 4, #461 of 1519 🔗

Gang of four and their Chinese running dogs

245987 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Cecil B, 3, #462 of 1519 🔗

Imperial College lackeys.

245950 AnotherSceptic, 3, #463 of 1519 🔗

I had to reply to the comment from the brainwashed & scared sheep on the Aberdeen bar story mentioned in the above section today.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/pub-tvs-removed-after-fans-23008042

245955 Basics, replying to Basics, 8, #464 of 1519 🔗

https://youtu.be/XQYzb5_kax8

Dr Reiner Fuelmich in interview three days go giving an update on proceeedings with the crimes against humanity.

245989 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Basics, 3, #465 of 1519 🔗

Listened last night, they have a case to heard in Germany soon. All too slow moving for me given the importance. There are a few movements which seem to be hopeful but have yet to pierce the armour

246192 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #466 of 1519 🔗

They are also massively campaigning on public opinion in Germany. There has to be popular support, and we need that too.

245958 peyrole, replying to peyrole, 5, #467 of 1519 🔗

”He has this weird, almost supernatural ability to bend events to his will – to prevail against the odds by sheer force of personality.” People like this are great until they are not, then they never are again.

245973 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to peyrole, 2, #468 of 1519 🔗

he was on the winning side a handful of times by luck then he launched a campaign of mass murder – remind you of anyone?

246010 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to steve_w, 3, #469 of 1519 🔗

“By luck” is dramatically overplaying that aspect, though (both for Cummings and for the “anyone” you darkly reference). It might be fundamental to all human life (as I suggested in my comment a few minutes ago), but people who achieve great things are almost never just lucky – they almost invariably, perhaps always, have great capabilities as well.

246039 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to peyrole, 5, #470 of 1519 🔗

Or did he just take the data seriously? Anyone who studies the polls knows that the British people dislike mass immigration, see nothing wrong with our culture, think PC ideology (eg ignoring obvious biologically based differences between boys and girls) , support free speech, distrust the bureaucratic and undemocratic character of the EU and can see the Far Left for who they are (communists). In other words they subscribe to
the populist agenda and are only held in check by ancestral political loyalties, First Past the Post and a pro PC globalist media that messes with their minds. telling them everything they believe is wrong.

246073 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to OKUK, 2, #471 of 1519 🔗

Many are called ‘Northerners’!

246127 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #472 of 1519 🔗

Yes I’m up for subscribing to a giant “Spirit of Sunderland” public sculpture. 🙂

246567 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to peyrole, #473 of 1519 🔗

Aka he’s a manipulative psychopath.

245966 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 2, #474 of 1519 🔗

Anybody got a link to that video conference with Lord Sumption for the oxford legal group that he did recently?
Actually found it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amDv2gk8aa0

245977 Voz 0db, replying to Voz 0db, 7, #476 of 1519 🔗

I stopped reading the first crap at this

his fearsome intelligence

The one with Elon MORON Musk is indeed funny…

comment image
Waiting for a more reliable and then saying “PCR” is the best joke of the entire OPERATION COVID.

The rest…

Well the HERD of modern moron slaves just “thinks” what they watch on TV and nowadays also on their real brain – the SMARTPHONE – and if it says those things about the average age of death, they have no motivation to suspect or engage in research.

246027 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Voz 0db, 5, #477 of 1519 🔗

He is fearsomely intelligent. He’s been consistently sceptical about lockdowns and refused to halt his Starship construction programme at any point during the pandemic. He’s warned humanity about the dangers of AI development. He’s the Edison of our day with huge achievements in software development, battery manufacture, solar power, electric vehicles and rocketry. But along comes a moron slave to question his intelligence,

246091 ▶▶▶ Voz 0db, replying to OKUK, #478 of 1519 🔗

Well… I guess we do have a lot of moron slaves!

If he “thinks” that a PCR is going to “tell him” he has “COVID”… He can be very good at playing with electric toys, but he is a complete MORON – just like you – on that FUN part!

246119 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Voz 0db, 1, #479 of 1519 🔗

He knows exactly what PCR tests do. But unlike you he also knows how to work the internet and connect with people who have been brainwashed by the media.

246856 ▶▶▶▶▶ Voz 0db, replying to OKUK, #480 of 1519 🔗

Moron Musk for President!

So in order to connect to sheeple one needs to pretend to be a moron and support the use of PCR when one knows PCR is not a test, much less a diagnostic tool?!

Uau… I now understand, even better, how They do have an EASY JOB!

245980 calchas, replying to calchas, 24, #481 of 1519 🔗

I posted this towards the end fo the last thread. I am posting again, because I think it sums up the psycho/sciopolitical aspects of the current Sate of Emergency quite well.

Just in case someone missed it.

comment image

245998 ▶▶ Julian, replying to calchas, 3, #482 of 1519 🔗

Brilliant

246002 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to calchas, 2, #483 of 1519 🔗

I reposted screenshots of this earlier today not knowing if you would be back.
Credit given to you as source natch.

246012 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to calchas, 4, #484 of 1519 🔗

And such behaviour, when conducted by a private individual, is legally coercive control, a criminal offence. However, the law, strange to relate, does not apply to organisations. I wonder why parliament saw fit to exclude organisations from criminal prosecution for coercive control?

246031 ▶▶ calchas, replying to calchas, 1, #485 of 1519 🔗

CAREFUL- that first link seems to be a BDSM site.

Do not include it on any printouts etc.

246033 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to calchas, 2, #486 of 1519 🔗
246035 ▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to calchas, 2, #487 of 1519 🔗

“The sessions included “an in-depth class on Biderman’s Principles,” the message said, referring to the chart from Mr. Biderman’s 1957 article. Versions of the same chart, often identified as “Biderman’s Chart of Coercion,” have circulated on anti-cult sites on the Web, where the methods are used to describe how cults control their members.
Dr. Robert Jay Lifton, a psychiatrist who also studied the returning prisoners of war and wrote an accompanying article in the same 1957 issue of The Bulletin of the New York Academy of Medicine, said in an interview that he was disturbed to learn that the Chinese methods had been recycled and taught at Guantánamo.”

The sessions included “an in-depth class on Biderman’s Principles,” the message said, referring to the chart from Mr. Biderman’s 1957 article. Versions of the same chart, often identified as “Biderman’s Chart of Coercion,” have circulated on anti-cult sites on the Web, where the methods are used to describe how cults control their members.
Dr. Robert Jay Lifton, a psychiatrist who also studied the returning prisoners of war and wrote an accompanying article in the same 1957 issue of The Bulletin of the New York Academy of Medicine, said in an interview that he was disturbed to learn that the Chinese methods had been recycled and taught at Guantánamo.

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/02/us/02detain.html

246046 ▶▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to calchas, 3, #488 of 1519 🔗

Bidermann’s book:

‘The Manipulation of Human Behavior’ from 1961

https://www.amazon.com/Manipulation-Human-Behavior-Albert-Biderman/dp/B0000CKY4Q

246199 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to calchas, #489 of 1519 🔗

No idea what you mean:

CAREFUL- that first link seems to be a BDSM site.
Do not include it on any printouts etc.

Please explain … when something is important then you need to make it crystal clear for those of us who aren’t familiar with the terms or the territory.

246261 ▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Rosie, #490 of 1519 🔗

I just thought it would be better to try and source it somewhere else.

BDSM is bondage, sado-masochism etc – appropriate perhaps.

That is an adult site.

The Bidermann chart is widely used for the recognition of cults

246250 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to calchas, #491 of 1519 🔗

You obviously do not know anything of the finer points of a D/S relationship. It is often proven that people practising BDSM are more sane than vanilla people, are better at communicating and are more “woke”.
They have less mental health issues because being in a BDSM relationship actually requires a lot of communication between the participants and active consent.
The chart is stating abuse, which is not comparable at all to a working BDSM relationship. Ok, yes, there is also abuse in kink, but if you are involved in a community, hopefully the community will pick up on it and help the abused person.
Please do not make statements based on what you see in MSM about kink.

246305 ▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Silke David, 1, #492 of 1519 🔗

Silke I am making no judgement. I understand and agree.

It is however probably not a good source to use, given widely-held opinions and the motives of our opponents.

Perhaps I am being over-cautious.

246100 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to calchas, 2, #493 of 1519 🔗

The aim of the N Koreans was to get captured US Servicemen to admit one little lie, such as what was for breakfast, hoping this might lead eventually to them making statements against the war and the USA.

246141 ▶▶ RickH, replying to calchas, 3, #494 of 1519 🔗

Because of it’s time and source, it’s labelled “ Communist Coercive Methods’ – but it is actually well-established coercive methods used by totalitarians of all sorts – including the US in certain settings.

246273 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to RickH, #495 of 1519 🔗

Agreed Rick – obviously in the US in 1957 it was more politically correct to concentrate on the Communist angle.

246265 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to calchas, 1, #496 of 1519 🔗

Here is a transcript of this with the comparisons to the current situation removed. We can all add our own interpretations to this as to how the current regime is applying these principals to us.

https://www.amnesty.org/download/Documents/204000/act400011975eng.pdf
Page 52 and 53

The accompanying chart, prepared by Biderman, is by no means exhaustive of coercive methods and it does not include the excessive physical abuse which many forms of
torture employ; However, it demonstrates the essential character of stress manipulation and may perhaps, by virtue of its more `benign’ content, reveal the intentions and results of torture with a precision that is almost impossible to achieve when dealing with those massive assaults in which pain and disorientation are compressed.

The victim is trapped in a situation in which thc stresses are manipulated so as constantly to frustrate this need to behave in a consistent, learned, personal behaviour pattern and in accordance with an esteemed self-image both of which are necessary for the protection of basic self-identity.

General Methods
-Effects(purposes) V ariants

1 Isolation
Deprives  victim  of all social support of his ability to
resist Complete Solitary confinement
Develops an intense concern with self          Complete isolation
Makes victim  dependent upon interrogation Semi Isolation
Group Isolation

2 Monopolization of perception Physical isolation
Fixes attention upon immediate predicaments; foster Darkness or bright light
introspection Barren Environment
Eliminates stimuli competing with those controlled Monotonous food
by captor
Frustrates all actions not consistent with compliance

3 Induced debility, Exhaustion
Weakens mental and physical ability to resist          Semi Starvation
Exploitation of wounds
Exposure
Induced illness
Sleep deprivation
Prolonged constraint
Prolonged Interrogation
Forced writing, Overexertion

4 Threats
Cultivates anxiety and despair             Threats of: Death, non return,
endless interrogation
against family
Vague threats
Mysterious changes of treatment.

5 Occasional Indulgences
Provides positive motivation for compliance
Hinders adjustment to deprivation
Occasional favours
Fluctuations of interrogators attitudes
Promises
Rewards partial compliance
Tantalising

6 Demonstrating “omnipotence”
Suggests futility of resistance Confrontation
Pretending to co-operation taken for
granted
Demonstrating complete control
over victim’s fate

7 Degradation
Makes costs of resistance appear more damaging  Personal Hygiene prevented
to self esteem than capitulation Filthy infested surroundings
Reduces prisoner to”animal level” control Demeaning punishments
Insults and taunts
Denial of privacy

8 Enforcing trivial demands
Develops habits of compliance Forced writing
Enforcement of minute rules

246267 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, #497 of 1519 🔗

Balls the formatting went a bit wrong

245982 Mark, replying to Mark, 9, #498 of 1519 🔗

Personally, I find Toby’s analysis of Cummings’ involvement in the disastrous panic of March quite plausible, though short of a full, open and hones inquiry (highly unlikely, for obvious reasons) we will never really know for certain. As with Iraq, the people involved are too powerful and too good at lying and covering their own tracks, and there is far too much at stake for too many such people) .

“He has that same attribute that people used to attribute to Steve Jobs – a reality distortion field . He has this weird, almost supernatural ability to bend events to his will – to prevail against the odds by sheer force of personality.”

This is the kind of description you come across quite often of very successful people, amounting to a basically mystical belief in their capabilities. I tend to respond by contemplating the reality that such people are fantastically successful and potent – until they are’t.

The degree to which human competence can control events is a matter of fundamental mystery. Some, like for instance the Roman emperor Augustus or the Soviet tyrant Stalin, stay on top until they die in power, others such as Hitler or Napoleon (both of whom would, until events finally turned against them, reasonably be regarded as people similar to Toby’s description of Cummings before the failure of March 2020) have triumph after triumph – until suddenly they stop having triumphs. And afterwards we construct analyses to explain in detail how their defeats were inevitable, how the odds they fell to were so much more insurmountable than those over which they triumphed in then amazing circumstances.

Myself, I like to consider (functional) luck fundamental. Obviously greater funds of the attributes that promote success – competence, intellect, courage, persistence – help, but unless you have complete knowledge (which no human ever has, in a complex world), any “judgement call” has a chance of being wrong. Functionally, that chance amounts to luck. When you are inside the system, with incomplete understanding (as we all are when complex political decisions are taken), we naturally tend to ascribe a series of successes to competence and control. But while competence plays a big role, imo it has its limits.

246015 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mark, 3, #499 of 1519 🔗

Good food for thought. Think this was a theme of War and Peace – do leaders direct events or are they swept along on a tide of events like everyone else?

246058 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Mark, 1, #500 of 1519 🔗

Mark, that is a very good post. We have discussed several things on here before, including Functional Stupidity, and of course, Mr Cummings and the incredulous ‘Barnard Castle Defence’. What you describe above is ‘Bounded Rationality’, and it underpins something called Transaction Cost Economics, for which Oliver Williamson won the Nobel prize in Economics. As I have said several times, ‘genius’ is an overused description for even clever Oxbridge students, and certain people ought to know better. Moreover, the success attributed almost unquestionably to Mr Cummings and his team in both Brexit and the Tory election victory, is deliberately underplaying the perhaps most impressive and significant politician of our generation, Nigel Farage.

246072 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #501 of 1519 🔗

Follow up Mark. The point about Steve Jobs is interesting. Some have sought to copy much of his modus operandi and attire/look. This has served to fool some supposedly very clever people. Good example – look at the supporters and cheerleaders behind Elizabeth Holmes and Theranos. Now, if you cast Professor Neil Ferguson, with his supposed amazing intellect, modeling skills, and carefully honed image (note the glasses, black polo neck on occasion, and hands in a praying mode), in the same light, one wonders who are the supporters and cheerleaders – Mr Cummings, Mr Gove?

245986 MutzNutz, replying to MutzNutz, 6, #502 of 1519 🔗

New TV cookery duo ‘The Two Slapheads’ to be announced soon

246005 ▶▶ RickH, replying to MutzNutz, 6, #503 of 1519 🔗

The humorous piece at the top of today’s edition lightened my mood. Cummings’s ‘ “ fearsome intelligence”.

I chuckled merrily at this tribute to a monomaniac who history has proved to be monumentally stupid – if ‘clever’, turning all that he touches in the real world to dross.

246016 ▶▶▶ concrete68, replying to RickH, 2, #504 of 1519 🔗

Truly has no one man overestimated his abilities to such an extent.

246029 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 3, #505 of 1519 🔗

Pretty obvious that your churlishness on Cummings is based purely on your political dislike of the causes he espoused. Of course, this is something we all do – attribute disagreement to “stupidity”. I certainly admit to finding it difficult to admit the intellect in people with such functionally “stupid” opinions about the world as Starmer and Corbyn.

Personally, I think it’s hard to deny the attribution of great intelligence to Cummings, even though I regard his involvement in the coronapanic as criminally “stupid”. But intelligence is no guarantee of correctness, and “stupidity” can coexist with monumental intellect, as has imo been demonstrated beyond reasonable dispute by the current panic. The world is far too complex for any human intellect to encompass it. Judgement calls about the world are rendered more or less reliable by levels of intellect, as well as by other related and unrelated attributes (experience, knowledge etc), but are never certain.

246037 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, 2, #506 of 1519 🔗

No – it’s not ‘churlishness’.

I don’t wish to waste too much time on such a weirdness as Cummings – and the debate about the nature of ‘intelligence’ has already been had here.

But I will stick to my perception of his profound arrogant ‘stupidity’ and, at best limited abilities, which were clearly on display from the time that he and Gove were poncing around at the DfE, making (as now) an unholy mess of things.

246043 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 1, #507 of 1519 🔗

Well in that case all that can be said is that his causes, and his personal successes, triumphed over your own pretty consistently.

246008 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to MutzNutz, 4, #508 of 1519 🔗

I think they’ve cooked up quite enough for one year thanks

246071 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to MutzNutz, 5, #509 of 1519 🔗

Didn’t they used to own the queen Vic and own a garage under the arches in Albert Square

246047 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to calchas, 2, #512 of 1519 🔗

Bill G (amongst others) planning ‘fake food’…

246056 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Carrie, 5, #513 of 1519 🔗

That man is the real virus

246011 RickH, replying to RickH, 12, #514 of 1519 🔗

The Mail reporter Rachel Sharp states that PCR tests “are considered the gold standard of COVID-19 testing”.”

Says a lot about the standard of reporting.

246014 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to RickH, 10, #515 of 1519 🔗

Not Sharp enough

246049 ▶▶ Dorian_Hawkmoon, replying to RickH, 2, #516 of 1519 🔗

Isolation and visualisation are the gold standard, principles from their basic Uni education which many virologists and immunologists seem content to throw out the window in the general science melt down. It is truly scary when medics lose their reason, ditch their knowledge and worse, tear into colleagues who point out error.

246125 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Dorian_Hawkmoon, #517 of 1519 🔗

It’s the Santa Clause. Would you impose changes on the world due to Santa? Like tiling a roof so he won’t slip off.

Science straddles both conditions with Santa there or not: it’s a philosophical exercise.

Engineering and real world sense do not

246183 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to mhcp, 2, #518 of 1519 🔗

When is Boris Johnson going to tell the children that Santa cannot visit this year due to the rules against household mixing, and how a man who visited every household in the world would be a serious vector for the transmission of the virus?

246212 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kristian Short, replying to Steve Hayes, #519 of 1519 🔗

Cancelling Santa is in keeping with Communism 3.0.

246018 Brian ‘Monty’ Cohen, replying to Brian ‘Monty’ Cohen, 10, #520 of 1519 🔗

Great comment from The Spectator:
Peter Sutcliffe spent nearly 40 years in lockdown and died of Covid.”

246122 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Brian ‘Monty’ Cohen, #521 of 1519 🔗

This is a great way of turning around the coronapanic propaganda use of Sutcliffe’s death that we saw in the past couple of days.

246179 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Brian ‘Monty’ Cohen, #522 of 1519 🔗

And apparently caught the virus in hospital.

246363 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Brian ‘Monty’ Cohen, 1, #523 of 1519 🔗

Yes

246020 Julian, replying to Julian, 4, #524 of 1519 🔗

Carrie as you are posting this morning can you give us the facts behind the headlines regarding Sweden’s “10pm alcohol sales ban”?

246044 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, 14, #525 of 1519 🔗

I’ll look into it to see if there is anything new – but a couple of things you need to know:

The sale of alcohol in Sweden is very tightly regulated ANYWAY – there is only ONE shop where you can buy it (called ‘Systembolaget’) apart from in bars/restaurants. Alcohol is not sold in supermarkets. You have to produce ID at Systembolaget and they are only open at certain times. Normally 10 am -7 pm on weekdays, 10 am – 3 pm on Saturdays and closed on Sundays…

246054 ▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to Carrie, 5, #526 of 1519 🔗

Supermarkets: well, not strong alcohol anyway. I suppose it is possible to get a buzz off 2.5% beers but it feels like it’s not worth bothering.

Off topic i guess but:

I remember in the early 80s they closed the two Systembolaget shops in the town where I lived for ‘renovations’ on Saturdays. More like social engineering, we always thought. I remember peeking through the screens on the windows: no renovations seemed to be taking place.

I also remember one of the saddest experiences I have ever had: going to a Greek restaurant without an alcohol licence.

246057 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Carrie, #527 of 1519 🔗

Yes indeed.

This is behind a paywall but you can see enough of the story to get the idea:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sweden-bans-late-night-sale-of-alcohol-as-coronavirus-cases-surge-mr93vbgfj

246131 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to chaos, #529 of 1519 🔗

Thanks

246064 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Carrie, 1, #530 of 1519 🔗

Drinks in bars are really expensive too aren’t they?

246074 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Two-Six, 1, #531 of 1519 🔗

In my recent experience of Stockholm, roughly 25% over and above London prices

246081 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Two-Six, 2, #532 of 1519 🔗

Same in all the other Skandi countries I believe – we literally didn’t buy one thing when we were dropped off on land in Norway – £12/pint ? – I down’t fink so!

246095 ▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Two-Six, #533 of 1519 🔗

I was paying between 60 and 80 Kr for a beer last week.

246021 Rowan, replying to Rowan, 28, #534 of 1519 🔗

Whilst I can believe that stupidity and ignorance are the government’s strongest points, I can’t accept that this is why we are where we are today. No one, not even members of this government of crazies are so stupid that they wouldn’t have learned to do something sensible by now, if their intentions were entirely honest. We also see the almost exact same brand of utter stupidity being replicated by most governments across the entire world, even down to the same banal slogans and buzz words. This hasn’t happened by chance and it is very clear that there is a very unpleasant global agenda at work.

246025 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Rowan, 13, #535 of 1519 🔗

“Unpleasant global agenda at work”. Always I would have thought, throughout history, probably more so now the world is more interconnected. But still, our leaders could choose to follow their own path rather than go along with it

I expect stupidity and ignorance play a part, but also vanity, the desire to stay in power at all costs, fear of public exposure, dishonesty, selfishness, arrogance, love of being the centre of attention, having people do what you tell them, fear of standing out from the herd

246040 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Julian, 6, #536 of 1519 🔗

Vanity can be viewed as a form of stupidity and yes our government has these failings in spades, with Matt Hancock being a prime example, though he is far from being alone.

Crashing the economy, doing away with hard won freedoms and decimating the NHS are not the usual method of seeking re-election, though perhaps elections will be considered obsolete in the brave new Schwabian world that is almost here.

246055 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Rowan, 5, #537 of 1519 🔗

Vanity is indeed a form of stupidity, though I suppose a lot of the time people use he word stupid to denote someone of limited intellectual capacity, who struggles to understand anything more than simple concepts or process information. In that sense of the word, I don’t think the PM and others are “stupid”, though neither are they as intelligent as one would like from leaders.

Yes, what they have done to the country wouldn’t seem like a good recipe for re-election, but in their minds they have chosen the safest route to re-election by saving lives (or pretending to) – and certainly at the start of this, it was probably the popular decision. Now less so, though I think there is still strong support for lockdowns or at least treating covid as an exceptional threat. There are few politicians globally who have more or less said it’s a nothingburer and those that have said so have been slaughtered for it by the media and sections of the public. Even in Sweden, there are those who think the government are callous granny-killers.

So while what the PM has done is very wrong, probably evil, there is a rationale behind it, politically speaking.

246130 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 3, #538 of 1519 🔗

The interconnectedness is key. It has allowed a dominance that we never experienced before the end of the cold war.

The existence of the USSR in earlier times kept the west (relatively) honest. Elites still manipulated things, but the existence of another power centre was a brake. The plebs needed to be kept on board.

In parallel, the size and reach of global capital has expanded enormously as part of this interconnected nature of things.

246038 Jakehadlee, 6, #539 of 1519 🔗

I often think assessment of intelligence in politics has a little touch of “survivor syndrome” about it.

Someone espouses seemingly unpopular policies that capture the public imagination. They could be a genius, or they could be that German octopus who kept picking World Cup winners. Along the way, how many Cummings fell by the wayside when they picked Andorra over Brexit FC?

His actions over Covid, not just in policy making but in his personal life, make me think he may have more in common with the octopus than I thought. A lucky dipper who has no spine.

246042 Schrodinger, replying to Schrodinger, 29, #540 of 1519 🔗

British Medical Journal editorial now speaking out. It’s only taken them around 7 months to catch up!

“The medical-political complex tends towards suppression of science to aggrandise and enrich those in power. And, as the powerful become more successful, richer, and further intoxicated with power, the inconvenient truths of science are suppressed. When good science is suppressed, people die.”

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4425

246051 ▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to Schrodinger, 8, #541 of 1519 🔗

I would imagine there has to be a turning point where enough people realise and then group together. When you only have 1 or 2 people speaking out they basically go unheard but once they come round to the same thinking en mass then they have a voice to speak out.

246132 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Anothersceptic2, 6, #542 of 1519 🔗

It seems many of the rules have been formulated so that it’s difficult for people actually to group together in an informal way and talk about things. Divide and rule has been very effective in the Prole Control Programme.

246059 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Schrodinger, 4, #543 of 1519 🔗

How might science be safeguarded in these exceptional times? The first step is full disclosure of competing interests from government, politicians, scientific advisers, and appointees, such as the heads of test and trace, diagnostic test procurement, and vaccine delivery. The next step is full transparency about decision making systems, processes, and knowing who is accountable for what.

Which sounds fine, certainly it would be an improvement, but what it leaves out is fundamental. The government’s claims to be basing its decisions on science should be supported by publishing references to the all the relevant empirical research, and if any of that research is hiding behind a pay wall or otherwise not readily accessible to all, the actual paper(s) should be published.

Of course such a practice would immediately destroy the claim that the government’s responses to the virus are based on the science.

246060 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Schrodinger, 25, #544 of 1519 🔗

Bet they still wouldn’t publish the Danish mask study!

246109 ▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #545 of 1519 🔗

Does anyone know if there’s any updates on what’s happening with the Danish mask study? Thanks.

246220 ▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 1, #546 of 1519 🔗

I think we can only assume that heavyweight journals won’t touch it and the authors don’t want any impact to be diluted because they self-publish. Catch 22

246061 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Schrodinger, 6, #547 of 1519 🔗

Science is being suppressed for political and financial gain, says it all. Have we got enough good people with integrity to stop the suppression?

246066 ▶▶ Professor, replying to Schrodinger, 8, #548 of 1519 🔗

The editorial in the British Medical Journal, which is one of the world’s leading medical publications, could hardly be less damning:

“Science is being suppressed for political and financial gain. Covid-19 has unleashed state corruption on a grand scale, and it is harmful to public health. Politicians and industry are responsible for this opportunistic embezzlement.”

“…research published this week by The BMJ, which finds that the government procured an antibody test that in real world tests falls well short of performance claims made by its manufacturers. Researchers from Public Health England and collaborating institutions sensibly pushed to publish their study findings before the government committed to buying a million of these tests but were blocked by the health department and the prime minister’s office. Why was it important to procure this product without due scrutiny?”

246079 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Professor, 4, #549 of 1519 🔗

Because someone was having a backhander

246106 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Professor, #550 of 1519 🔗

Because it’s great fun spending vast amounts of other people’s money.

246104 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Schrodinger, 7, #551 of 1519 🔗

A fascinating turn-around. But welcome, even if it’s taken six months. It looks as if the BMJ really has clocked that the ‘good faith’ of government and its advisors is a myth.

Of course, there is no such definitive beast as ‘ The Science’ – scientific analysis is multi-faceted.

But there is such a thing as ‘scientific method and principles’. The method is, in its mainstream form, about continually testing hypotheses against reality, and another principle is openness and ‘nothing up my sleeve’ in terms of transparency and availability of material.

Clearly, government policy has corrupted both of those standards. The basic fact of the wild public belief about Covid as a cause of death speaks volumes about the way in which government has engaged in propaganda rather than the dissemination of information.

Of course – those who have remained awake have always been aware of this – but every reformed sinner is to be welcomed …..

246114 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Schrodinger, #552 of 1519 🔗

Let’s hope their readership take note.

246358 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Nsklent, 2, #553 of 1519 🔗

It’s an editorial, it’s massive for them to do this.

246086 Voz 0db, #554 of 1519 🔗

Just a FUN off-topic since OPERATION COVID is getting boring!

comment image

246089 Cecil B, 6, #555 of 1519 🔗

Anything from the brain damaged pig dictator and Princess Nuts Nuts this morning?

Could do with a laugh

246093 Banjones, replying to Banjones, #556 of 1519 🔗
246121 ▶▶ Voz 0db, replying to Banjones, #557 of 1519 🔗

Africa is the Paradise for Bill Gates and Friends!

246310 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Banjones, -2, #558 of 1519 🔗

Shocking! How far can you stretch the truth with such an approach? The Tetanus part of the MMR is implicated in cot deaths

Hi Health Departments all over the world – suggest you focus on building immunity.

246600 ▶▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to Victoria, 2, #559 of 1519 🔗

Please can you keep your anti-vaxxx stuff to other forums dedicated to that kind of stuff. It really doesn’t help to convert people in the UK to be being lockdown skeptics when we look like we are aligned with pre-existing crazies. Concerns about the lack of testing, coercion and pointlessness around covid vaccine are a separate issue.

246096 Anothersceptic2, replying to Anothersceptic2, 3, #560 of 1519 🔗

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kANkpqtWLN4 – a must watch, Mike Yeadon again with a group of German lawyers that are building their case.

246154 ▶▶ Mayo, replying to Anothersceptic2, -15, #561 of 1519 🔗

Yeadon’s lost credibility with his insistence that the “second wave” is entirely due to False Positives.

246170 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Mayo, -4, #562 of 1519 🔗

Actually agree (unfortunately)

246174 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mayo, 7, #563 of 1519 🔗

Only with the statistically illiterate (count yourself in, if you wish).

There is no ‘second wave’ … and the basis for predicting one was pure wishing as the latest part of a nonsense narrative that had failed at every stage of analysis and prediction.

246339 ▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to RickH, -1, #564 of 1519 🔗

Only with the statistically illiterate (count yourself in, if you wish).

Just a hunch – but I suspect my qualifications in Statistics are superior to yours.

But, please do use whatever statistical expertise you possess to explain how it is that neither the ONS, DoH nor ZOE were not picking up all these false positives in June, July & August.

And when you’ve done that, explain how the same phenomenon is observed in pretty much every country across Europe.

246353 ▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Mayo, 1, #565 of 1519 🔗

Bodies everywhere is it?

246351 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Mayo, 2, #566 of 1519 🔗

I don’t think that’ll do it.

False positives via PCR are decimating staffing levels in Northern Ireland hospitals which annouced cancelling of electives again this week.

The Health Minister said last night of the local News a Covid patient will be prioritised and a cancer patient will die because of that decision.

The manufactured staff crisis is driving much of this.

246575 ▶▶▶▶ TT, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #567 of 1519 🔗

I know someone who is the head of an independent health/social services organisation here in Belgium (mainly providing assistance at home to the elderly.or disabled who can still manage to live independently), and he told me that their staff members, and those of similar organisations in the field, are now continuing to work even with a positive PCR test – unless they have real symptoms of course, that would be criminal. Rationale is simple: if they’d send everyone who tested positive home for several weeks, they wouldn’t have the staff to continue to provide care! So they know first hand how reliable PCR testing is… They even fudge the official data on the forms they’re required to fill in for personnel returning from abroad, to avoid the quarantine regulations. Otherwise they would simply bot be able to keep servicing the people who need their help. A manufactured crisis indeed – what a madhouse!

246773 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Mayo, #568 of 1519 🔗

How do you define a ‘second wave’?

For example, as opposed to an ‘endemic ripple’, or ‘delayed first wave’.

246102 Cotton, replying to Cotton, 14, #569 of 1519 🔗

This is the sort of stuff we are up against: https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4078954-Horrified-that-people-still-dont-get-it – I’ve tried posting but it’s pointless. Facts don’t matter, it’s like they can’t be computed. Whenever I go on there I’m reminded of how much in a minority we are despite all the hopeful talk on here of the tide turning. You might dismiss it given it’s mumsnet but sadly the views I’ve seen being spouted on there reflect almost to a tee the opinions of friends and colleagues.

246110 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to Cotton, 2, #570 of 1519 🔗

I have just been reading quotations from Jacques Ellul. It’s really quite amazing that these Terminally Terrified are prime examples showing the effectiveness of propaganda:
https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/266492-propagandes

246118 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Cotton, 15, #571 of 1519 🔗

They should be more worried about the psychological damage being inflicted on their children, wearing of masks, social distancing etc.

246123 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to stefarm, 2, #572 of 1519 🔗

You’d think

246133 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to stefarm, 12, #573 of 1519 🔗

Exactly. A few weeks ago we had a family in the shop. Both parents were muzzled, child (mercifully) not. The child was clearly scanning the room for a smiling face. I obliged. I felt so sorry for that child and so angry at the parents who, like our stupid rulers, are ignoring the fact that we are social animals and derive a lot from facial expressions.

246143 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to kh1485, 2, #574 of 1519 🔗

Take a look at the new Carl Vernon video…….only if you are felling brave

246163 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to stefarm, 3, #575 of 1519 🔗

FFS. I am sitting here absolutely gob-smacked. That is just hideous, beyond horrific. Subliminal message with the Delia thing afterwards?

246185 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to kh1485, 1, #576 of 1519 🔗

Yes that’s it , I’ve just posted the Delia call to arms

246231 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to kh1485, 1, #577 of 1519 🔗

I think its creators missed a trick – they should have added in another section mimicking STV’s ‘thank you Nicola’ video from May.

Lest anyone forget: https://twitter.com/ZambeziOutpost/status/1264586550215610369

246128 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Cotton, 9, #578 of 1519 🔗

I would not assume we’re in such a minority

The most vocal on Mumsnet are not necessarily the most representative

Start by asking them for their definition of what constitutes a public health emergency

246129 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Cotton, 21, #579 of 1519 🔗

I think Mumsnet is the minority. The typical poster is a middle class, white metropolitan yummy mummy living in London and the South East. Once her professional working husband loses his job, there will be much buyers remorse.

246149 ▶▶▶ Alexei, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #580 of 1519 🔗

Unfortunately, the country is governed for – and all policy tailored to the whims and fetishes of – these people.

246169 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Alexei, 8, #581 of 1519 🔗

I agree to a point. The non-Tory, Tory party, like the Labour Party, represents largely metropolitan liberal interests. Once Boris has gone, taking his yummy mummy eco-loon girlfriend with him, the Tories will move to the right – driven again by Mr Farage.

246272 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #582 of 1519 🔗

Yeah I think the same about zealots generally- a small but noisy minority.

246134 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Cotton, 4, #583 of 1519 🔗

I don’t think it is the majority view, most of the social media comments are negative towards the government and covid, they do know what is happening, even if the masks are still around, most say, they will put one on for a minutes to go in a shop but that’s it, many saying no way.

246136 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Cotton, 14, #584 of 1519 🔗

These sorts of Mum’s are the worst ones – the Karen’s. I stood alone at the school gates because of these awful people when my kids were at primary school. So glad when we left primary school behind us, and can’t wait to have secondary school behind us now – schools have been the scourge of my life since 2008. Not specific teachers, but the institution itself.

246148 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to CGL, 12, #585 of 1519 🔗

I think we are of a similar disposition. I upset the yummy mummies on the parent-teacher association at my boys primary, then the very ‘nice’ headmistress. I then moved on to upset the deputy head at senior school (but he got over it!), then a couple of the senior female teachers and their male head of department. I am following a long tradition of challenging authority/authoritarians – thanks dad!

246340 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to CGL, 4, #586 of 1519 🔗

I suggest you read Weapons of Mass Instruction. The school system is industrial by design, based on fundamental principles established in Prussia and institutionalised by Rockefeller and the like via the US state.

The UK is no different.

https://blackwells.co.uk/bookshop/product/Weapons-of-Mass-Instruction-by-John-Taylor-Gatto/9780865716698

I’ll try and push my kids towards sport and stem. History, poltitics, economics etc I’ll do myself. Those subjects are pure indoctrination

246374 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #587 of 1519 🔗

Even French A level is pure politics – was really shocked.
Although I wasn’t aware of any direct information about politicisation of education at that point – I realised myself the level of brainwashing that was going on and have spend the last 10 years (since eldest was about 7) impressing on them how important it is never to just believe anyone, and always to question everything. They are now seeing why.

246787 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to CGL, #588 of 1519 🔗

As much as I loathe my current neighbourhood one think that’s positive about it is the lack of yummy mummies. Was in Hampstead recently for my exercise and had the misfortune to be around when school was over and the next thing you know the high street was filled with hordes of yummy mummies and their tiresome offspring. Having to put up with them at work, there are times I think they should be marched to the town square and shot.

246139 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Cotton, 6, #589 of 1519 🔗

I wouldn’t take too much notice of the comments.Here is one of the gems.”my sons 31 yo friend died 3 days after contracting the virus”.Thats quicker than Ebola

246150 ▶▶ Cotton, replying to Cotton, 4, #590 of 1519 🔗

Maybe – but I can’t help but think this and similar sites are a ‘bubble’ in which we can convince ourselves that the tide is turning. Largely perhaps because the alternative is too depressing.

246801 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Cotton, #591 of 1519 🔗

If you only look at this site, that could be true. However, I am sure I am not just speaking for myself when I say that I look at a great number of sites, covering a range of different viewpoints, many of which I don’t particularly share. I even observe what the MSM is saying – when I can stand it! 🙂 MW

246160 ▶▶ steph, replying to Cotton, 3, #592 of 1519 🔗

Don’t worry about Mumsnet. They are an echo chamber as are we here! The truth will out in the end.

246799 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to steph, 1, #593 of 1519 🔗

Please beware of the term ‘echo chamber’. Unfortunately, like ‘conspiracy theorist’, it has become a way of undermining dissent. Yes, everyone on here (apart from the shills and trolls) is on the same side but there’s a surprising diversity of opinion, nonetheless MW

246173 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Cotton, 5, #594 of 1519 🔗

Sons just about given up on posting anything intelligent and factual on farce book.

Those who are sceptical or were willing to question are already convinced.

The rest only complain when something that goes against their beliefs is posted and try and get the post or author suspended so he says they on;t listen regardless of what facts and proofs he posts.

Same people are also green agenda converts.

Definitely a religion/cult now believers against unbelievers – dark ages and superstition against truth and science and enlightenment.

246195 ▶▶▶ Cotton, replying to Awkward Git, #595 of 1519 🔗

It does feel like that. The depressing thing for me is how many intelligent friends believe it. Part of me wants to have a Winston Smith moment and learn to love Big brother.

246331 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Cotton, 2, #596 of 1519 🔗

There are some parent groups on Facebook I joined for a while to gauge the mood. Left after about 2 months. The doom and gloom is awful. Every case is reported with horror and the government are under reporting deaths to make themselves look good. All kids will die and they want all schools closed. They have to suffering from psychological dysfunction. Not that soem are genuine and have lost people over these 10 months but there is no perspective, no thought below the surface level.

The most sympathy I can muster is to say that it’s understandable given the relentless onslaught of fear porn from the msm. And yet, for me, that fear in Feb/Mar was a kick in the balls to actually rationalise it and seek out alternative opinion. I wanted to believe it wasn’t a sbad as it was reported at least, because I didn’t want it to be true. I’m glad I did.

So many haven’t moved on since then.

246893 ▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Cotton, 1, #597 of 1519 🔗

Understand that mumsnot is fully reflective of the bedwetter part of society.

However, mumsnot (sic) and yougov and similar places are heavy concentrators of this type of individual. Mumsnot barred me when I attempted to advise the six known treaments for SARS-CoV-2 and said there were others available.

When I asked, they said (with no knowledge whatsoever) that my posting was “potentially dangerous” as if I was offering to dismantle a patient on screen under the supervision of mumsnot posters. The website is notorious for this, and yougov is stuffed with the same sort of opinion.

Valid opinion, I suppose, but definitely from the far end of the opinion spectrum. If you only read mumsnot, your view of the world will inevitably be warped in that direction. Just remember that they are a serious minority of the internet universe; but that said, I totally agree with and sympathise.

246113 Mark, replying to Mark, 19, #598 of 1519 🔗

The Free Speech Union has prepared a briefing doc entitled “ Ten reasons to throw out the Law Commission’s Anti-Free Speech Proposals ”.

This is a cause at least as urgent and important as fighting the coromnapanic, and probably in the longer term far more important. It is in fact resisting a change to a situation that is fundamentally inconsistent with any plausible sense of being a society characterised by freedom or by democracy (there can be no true democracy without freedom of speech, by definition). I am a member and supporter of the FSU for that reason.

But note the seriousness of the situation. What the FSU is fighting here is a gross extension of the existing unfreedom, into absurd new levels of dogmatic imposition of Official Truth ideology. but that existing unfreedom is already present. People are already harassed by the police and persecuted in their social and work lives for expressing or (supposedly) holding opinions that are regarded as verboten. This is a matter both of law and of culture.

And while we are fighting to prevent this further imposition of unfreedom, the existing unfreedom is becoming cemented in our law and our culture. The danger is that the existing situation will be accepted as some kind of “compromise”, when there should be no compromise whatsoever on political freedom of speech.

246277 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Mark, 4, #599 of 1519 🔗

I’ve noticed in my work place this year a real outpouring of statements from staff, asking others to join in a religious festival of theirs or recognise the anniversary of certain polticial leaders across the world.

Now, I am from Northern Ireland where such things are very much coloured in the experience of each individual. Every man’s terrorist and all that. But in such spirit of acceptance, diversity and respect, there would be no way certain ‘freedom’ fighters could be acknowledged in a similar light. I have reservations about Martin Mcguinness for example but where I’m from, he’s seen as much a hero in the eyes of people here. Ian Paisley Snr would have the same issues of baggage.

But no, history is back and white now apparently, and we have to let our corporate leaders tells us what we can or cannot say. Makes me want to scream as its blatant hypocrisy.

Never mind all the diversity training this year. Had an email recently from HR reps which began ‘Racism is a white problem. Where do we go from here?’

I fix computer software for a living. It’s madness.

246322 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Mark, 2, #600 of 1519 🔗

FSU is doing a very important job in challenging this. This needs to be stopped otherwise we are really doomed.

246117 percy openshaw, 22, #601 of 1519 🔗

Your section on the law commission is another reason to hope that the fall of Cummings drags Johnson after him. That a supposedly Conservative government can preside over oppressive Marxist lucubration of this kind is a damning indictment of the PM. He is an idle, faithless, cowardly, inconstant trickster, in it for himself and careless of the future.

246138 stefarm, 1, #602 of 1519 🔗

https://youtu.be/NiC679ASOyA

Let’s be having you – funny how it’s all changed now, more like all roll over and have your tummy tickled.

246140 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 7, #603 of 1519 🔗

Did anyone have the misfortune to hear the fake, and I mean FAKE report from Derby on the today programme on R4 this morning?
The reporter was saying that Derby was virtually deserted with only a couple of shops open and one of those hadn’t taken a penny all day.
This reporter then interviewed some people,( I thought the streets were deserted but never mind!); after the usual “sheep” “bleating” the same old mantra ( if people don’t social distance/ the young people aren’t following the rules/ people mingling)
the reporter did ask one bloke who told him: ” no, I’m continuing to see my friends and family and I think LD2 is pointless”,: usual reply: “but Covid is the biggest threat to mankind since the Black death, blah,blah,blah,etc” but this sceptic held his ground and would not be cowed.
Back to Derby, well if this city is deserted, it must be the only place in the country which is.
Considering that very few shops are allowed to open, in this part of the world ( West Midlands, North Worcestershire and South Shropshire), there’s lots of people about.

246262 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #604 of 1519 🔗

Someone on here reported a crappy local proprag trying to claim very early morning photos were “deserted lockdown streets”. Classic BBC fake news.

246418 ▶▶▶ davews, replying to DRW, #605 of 1519 🔗

Took the chance in a short break in the rain to go for my daily walk – to continue my policy of getting out every single day since March. Despite it being a miserable day there were still plenty of people out and I saw two groups of families on bikes. Chap in the ticket office at our local station complained he had only had two customers today, but there seemed half a dozen or so who had got off the train that had just come in so maybe not that deserted. Tesco looked packed, but it always is. What lockdown?

246549 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #606 of 1519 🔗

Previously I have avoided posting information about where I live, but I’ll now say that it’s Derby. I was in town this morning, it wasn’t busy but it wasn’t deserted by any means. The poor weather today will be a factor for the relative lack of people. I did my usual Saturday shopping which includes Sainsbury’s in the indoor shopping centre. Anywhere which sells food is open, including the likes of Poundland where food isn’t necessarily their main thing. Most takeaway food places are also open. One thing I do notice is that the buses to/from outlying towns seem to be running an almost normal service but there are typically just two or three passengers, sometimes none, so not many are travelling into the city, which isn’t so surprising as they have their local supermarkets but there’s no point in travelling into Derby since Primark etc are closed.

246144 Mayo, replying to Mayo, -14, #607 of 1519 🔗

The median age at which people think coronavirus victims have died is just 65 when the real average is 82.4 years. Average life expectancy is 81.1 years, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS).

I wish LS would stop using this statistic. It’s stupid. One of the reasons that Life Expectancy is 81.1 years of age is due to the fact that a lot of people live to the age of 82…85… 90 years of age. If the Age-standardised mortality rate increased among the over 80s then life expectancy would fall.

In the mid Victorian era life expectancy was about 45. While child mortality was the main issue, should a disease have been ignored if the median age of death was 50?

246156 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Mayo, 13, #608 of 1519 🔗

The difference between the average age of coronavirus related deaths and life expectancy is significant. It shows that the virus is having zero effect on mortality. To put this in the most simple terms: the only thing that has changed is what is written on the death certificate.

246162 ▶▶▶ Voz 0db, replying to Steve Hayes, 4, #609 of 1519 🔗

Yes… The new label for PNEUMONIA really let the sheeple in panic mode!

246254 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Steve Hayes, #610 of 1519 🔗

There are excess deaths this year (~50k). This excess occurs mainly in Spring 2020.

246306 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Mayo, #611 of 1519 🔗

Do you have a reference (I am thinking Office for National Statistics) for your claim that there have been fifty thousand excess deaths this year?

246321 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Steve Hayes, #612 of 1519 🔗

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending30october2020
Looking at the year-to-date (using the most up-to-date data we have available), the number of deaths up to 30 October 2020 was 505,834, which is 56,620 more than the five-year average.

246399 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Mayo, 1, #613 of 1519 🔗

Thank you. I do have a couple of points.

  1. Did you notice: “A death can be registered with both COVID-19 and Influenza and Pneumonia mentioned on the death certificate. Deaths where both were mentioned have been counted in both categories”. What should one make of double counting?
  2. Did you notice that all the excess deaths happened after the lockdown was introduced? and
  3. How many of these excess deaths do you think are likely to be the result of lockdown measures?
246429 ▶▶▶▶ peyrole, replying to Mayo, 1, #614 of 1519 🔗

Total all causes excess deaths is NOT covid-19 excess deaths. For instance take the last week , total all causes excess deaths is 980 , compare with non-covid excess deaths at home, 786. So all the excess deaths outside people’s own homes including covid is less than 200. This sort of statistic is repeated for all weeks, including the preak in the spring, when care homes non-covid deaths were peaking.
Furthermore take a longer view over say 20 years and adjust for opulation growth. 2020 is not extreme, in fact its not the highest, that honour is taken by bad flu years.

247068 ▶▶▶▶ Voz 0db, replying to Mayo, #615 of 1519 🔗

AKA Hunting Season… AKA Lockdowns!

comment image

And now with Winter Hunting Season we’ll have another “excess” deaths event…

246166 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Mayo, 6, #616 of 1519 🔗

I really wouldn’t bust a gut over this one – it still illustrates a basically accurate fact – that Covid deaths (as far as can be defined in the statistical shit-show) follow the normal pattern of mortality.

246175 ▶▶▶ Voz 0db, replying to RickH, 5, #617 of 1519 🔗

Just replace the label “covid” with old and good pneumonia one and there is nothing new going around!

246171 ▶▶ peyrole, replying to Mayo, 2, #618 of 1519 🔗

Yes and a lot of people ‘with’ covid-19 die at the age of 85…90; so what exactly?
The significant statistic is that if you plot the age profile of all cause deaths at all ages and overlay it with age profile of deaths recorded ‘with’ covid-19 they are almost identical until the age of about 80. Then deaths ‘with’ covid start to rise steeper, not dramatically so , but its there. There is probably a case to be made that covid-19 might be a bit more agressive to over 80s with at least one comorbidity than other common respiratory diseases. But that is it. Covid-19 does not alter the normal distribution of deaths at any other age.
So the shorthand way of saying this is in italics in your post. Its not wrong, maybe incomplete, but it does the job.
Your last sentance is illogical and has no bearing on this issue.

246304 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to peyrole, -3, #619 of 1519 🔗

The significant statistic is that if you plot the age profile of all cause deaths at all ages and overlay it with age profile of deaths recorded ‘with’ covid-19 they are almost identical until the age of about 80

I’m not sure you understand what the ‘graph’ means. It is effectively telling us that, for anyone with Covid-19, the risk of dying is approximately doubled.

i.e. for a young person a very small risk, e.g. 0.01% is 0.02%. While an 85 year old who has a 10% chance of dying this year has a 20% chance if they have Covid.

The number are made up but they illustrate the point (I hope)

246408 ▶▶▶▶ peyrole, replying to Mayo, 1, #620 of 1519 🔗

No it doesn’t , it really doesn’t.

246205 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Mayo, 6, #621 of 1519 🔗

It’s a very clear and simple stat that demonstrates how it is predominately the very old who die with a Covid tag. Something that those who are fed a daily diet of MSM fear will probably be unaware of (as the study at the top suggests).
As such, it’s a stat than we can all usefully continue to share with those who live in perpetual irrational fear.

246208 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Mayo, 12, #622 of 1519 🔗

The average age of a Covid death is 82. Stop trying to make that sound as if it’s not a massive data point in all of this. In my area of 300,000 people, 81 deaths, 96% are over 65 with 62% over 80. And those deaths have alsmot certainly been hugely misappropriated.

Not one person under 40 has died.

Why are we locking down young people? To save Granny?

246266 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to BeBopRockSteady, -3, #623 of 1519 🔗

The average age of a Covid death is 82. Stop trying to make that sound as if it’s not a massive data point in all of this.

I’m making the point that an increase of mortality in elderly people and life expectancy are not independent.

If all those over the age of 82 were suddenly wiped out, Life expectancy would fall by several years.

246281 ▶▶▶▶ Henry, replying to Mayo, 1, #624 of 1519 🔗

Funny thing is that those over the age of 82 aren’t suddenly all being wiped out by SARS-cov2. They’re statistically more susceptible thus should be offered a greater level of protection as/if required – GBD.

246416 ▶▶▶▶ peyrole, replying to Mayo, #625 of 1519 🔗

Who could disagree with simple statistics, but the is not what you are trying to infer of the covid stats. Covid is not wiping out everyone over 82, the risk of dying if covid is on your death certificate at say 90 is slightly higher than if its not. But only slighty!

246383 ▶▶▶ Mutineer, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 3, #626 of 1519 🔗

They’re doing the opposite. They are culling the elderly and cheered on by the masketeers. I am old and have cancer (now untreated) and feel one accident away from being culled. We are back to the days of our grandparents who feared that going into hospital would be their final journey.

246823 ▶▶▶▶ TT, replying to Mutineer, #627 of 1519 🔗

Sadly you’re absolutely correct. I still know absolutely noone who has died from Covid, while there has been an explosion of cancer deaths during the lockdown period (including, unfortunately, my own father). In general, over the past 10 years or so I have seen an epidemic of people dying from cancer at a relatively young age (mid-50s to mid-60s); now all of a sudden any excess deaths are conveniently swept under the rug as being due to Covid.
When my dad entered the hospital during lockdown it was assumed he would soon be discharged and proceed to revalidation at home. Instead, his health deteriorated at a very rapid pace; I can’t say for sure they deliberately intended for this to happen, but I felt distinctly uncomfortable with the atmosphere in the hospital. It was always extremely quiet and personnel seemed bored and disinterested throughout (despite the so-called emergency situation). They failed to tackle the main problem, which eventually led to terminal renal failure, whereas they did tons of scans and other useless interventions for secondary issues, all with 0 result, He also had a positive PCR test after over a month in hospital, leading to a stint in the Covid ward – they even put him on ventilation at first, which they fortunately stopped as he never showed any symptoms and it was a pure waste of time. After 2 weeks of needless seclusion, they retransferred him back to his regular ward after admitting that he was somehow not affected by Covid (despite being in a very weakened state and recovering from cancer surgery). At some point a nurse even told my mom, just before some minor surgery, that they had noted that my dad did not want to be resuscitated – this was pure fiction, as he had never even been asked that question and had certainly not issued any statement to that effect. We reacted quite angrily to that and insisted to have it corrected, but if we hadn’t learnt of it by accident, they might well have proceeded on a DNR basis. In the end he passed away, against all expectations, having been admitted for a minor issue that led to lethal organ failure after some 4-5 months in hospital care. It’s undoubtedly just one more ‘honest mistake’, but I’m still glad to see that there are others who find what is going on in the hospitals right now highly suspicious.

246219 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mayo, 10, #628 of 1519 🔗

Child mortality, more correctly infant mortality, is the reason life expectancy was 45. If you survived the first four years of life, you stood a pretty good chance of reaching your sixties or more. In graveyards everywhere, there are plenty of headstones from the 18th & 19th centuries of people living to their eighties and nineties, as well as infants less than a week old.

You do see adult ages suddenly fall off a cliff when industrialisation reached a community, however.

246284 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #629 of 1519 🔗

Nick,

I know how life expectancy is calculated and while infant mortality is the dominant variable, the over 80s also contribute to increasing life expectancy.

Get rid of those aged 82+ years of age and life expectancy drops to 75 and possibly much lower (I’ll check).

246238 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mayo, 1, #630 of 1519 🔗

It simply shows how ignorant and misinformed people are – begs the question; why are people so misinformed, there has been plenty of media coverage?

246315 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 2, #631 of 1519 🔗

Something else people seem to think is that 50,000+ have died from covid – yet the 50,000+ figure we are given daily on the news is people who have died, most from serious underlying illness, but had a positive PCR test within previous 28 days.

What does a positive PCR test, upto 45 cycles, actually tell us?

246337 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mayo, #632 of 1519 🔗

You have said in the past that you are against lockdown and your gripe in here is people’s believe that ‘herd immunity’ was close earlier in the year. Do you thing the GBD is the way forward to live with c19 or do you have other ideas?

246145 NorthumbrianNomad, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 17, #633 of 1519 🔗

So, I’ll leave this up for a while and then I’ll be gone.

I think the apparent majority who welcome lockdown are catastrophically wrong. I think the government unwittingly radicalised its own population and doesn’t know how to get out of it. I think the world has gone mad. The scientists driving the agenda are narrow little fearful people with no concept of what for most people used to make life worth living. I’d like them to be held to account for crimes against humanity. Same with the politicians. I will never vote again.

But as for the rest, the conspiracy theorists, the notion that the same politicians rightly accused of utter incompetence are somehow simultaneously flawlessly implementing a global plan masterminded by Bill Gates to reduce the human population… can you hear yourselves? Yes, you can. Yourselves is all you can hear.

Coming here is no longer serving any purpose for me and I am no longer serving a purpose here.

246151 ▶▶ steph, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 7, #634 of 1519 🔗

Please stay. Many think the same.

246153 ▶▶ BJJ, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 11, #635 of 1519 🔗

Don´t be ridiculous. You are one of the best commentators.

246157 ▶▶ Voz 0db, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 2, #636 of 1519 🔗

Be cool…
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246158 ▶▶ CGL, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 10, #637 of 1519 🔗

Please don’t go – I agree with Steph and BJJ – your posts are some of the best

246168 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 24, #638 of 1519 🔗

The conspiracy theorists, as you call them, are simply looking for a rational explanation to the madness. This desire for a rational explanation is not only understandable, it is a universal impulse. People feel the need to make sense of the world. When confronted with what appears to be completely senseless behaviour by their government, it would be surprising if they refrained from coming up with rational explanations.

246182 ▶▶▶ VickyA, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #639 of 1519 🔗

Exactly. When you have a questioning nature, and some rational thinking, you cannot believe others aren’t the same. But they are and they make decisions for all sorts of irrational reasons so hence the entertainment of “conspiracy”. We all want to know why where we are and what we can do about changing it. Same goal, different ways of looking at it.

246214 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #640 of 1519 🔗

There is always a rational explanation of events, whether based on ‘conspiracy’, on incompetence or on some mixture of the two, or something else.

The way we decide between conflicting rational explanations of the events is to look at the evidence.

We weigh the balance of the evidence and arrive at a theory (conspiracy or otherwise – incompetence theory ), which best explains the events.

This is what a criminal detective does. Nobody would say to a criminal detective trying to put a case together, that he should a priori exclude any ‘conspiracy theory’.

Every detective knows that someimes human beings come together to jointly act in their own interest and to the detriment of others.

246276 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to calchas, 3, #641 of 1519 🔗

There is always a rational explanation of events

Even a moment’s reflection should disabuse you of this belief. Human beings are capable of being rational, but they are not wholly rational. Human beings are perfectly capable of behaving irrationally and often do, and when that happens, they are equally capable of resorting to all kinds of rationalisations to pretend (especially to themselves) that their behaviour was driven by rational considerations.

246325 ▶▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Steve Hayes, #642 of 1519 🔗

Rational in terms of obeying the law of cause and effect.

Events have causes – and consequences.

You are obviously right about people.

I didn’t say people are rational – I said:

“There is always a rational explanation of events”

This does not imply that those human beings participating in those events are behaving rationally.

246376 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to calchas, 2, #643 of 1519 🔗

And there still isn’t always a rational explanation for events. Some events are accidental, some are coincidental, some are the result of unknowable causes.

246402 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Steve Hayes, #644 of 1519 🔗

Unknowable does not mean inexplicable. Unknowable just means that the human mind is incapable of grasping or arriving at the explanation.

Sure there are accidents which nobody intended – by definition. That still doesn’t mean there is no rational explanation.

Consider a car accident on a Winter morning with only one vehicle involved.

The accident still has a cause or multiple – icy conditions, tired driver, whatever.

Are you really contending that there are phenomena without a cause or causes?

If the UK – and other governments, blundered in March, and I can’t rule it completely out, then there is an explanation for that blunder.

There must then also be an explanation for the fact that they are seemingly unwilling to reverse that blunder, despite, as I listed in my comment to NN, having numerous possibilities to work on that.

246348 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Steve Hayes, #645 of 1519 🔗

“When confronted with what appears to be completely senseless behaviour by their government,”

But the behaviour isn’t necessarily senseless. On the contrary, three are several scenarios under which the beaviour makes sense, given the pursuit of certain goals. The reason this appears to be senseless to us is that we have perhaps no knowledge of the goals.

It is incumbent on us to weigh the evidence for these arguments on their own merits, rather than reject a line of reasoning because it seems to be a ‘conspiracy’.

246366 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to calchas, #646 of 1519 🔗

You quote me as saying: “When confronted with what appears to be completely senseless behaviour by their government,”
Before claiming it is not senseless. However it is senseless if one takes at face value the government’s claimed motivation, which is to save lives. Judged by that criterion it is senseless and so the government’s behaviour appears senseless.

246430 ▶▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #647 of 1519 🔗

All I am saying is, is that it is possible that the government has other goals, with which its policies are congruent.

Goals, which for whatever reason, cannot be admitted.

246461 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to calchas, 1, #648 of 1519 🔗

And if those motivations are hidden, the government’s behaviour appears senseless.

246177 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 11, #649 of 1519 🔗

As one Geordie to another (honourable if you are over the border!) in the immortal words of KC and The Sunshine Band ‘please don’t go, don’t go, don’t go away’. The reason why conspiracy theories have gained traction is because, rationally, no government could be this incompetent. As the Mail article documents today, they really have been, and continue to be, grossly incompetent:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8947595/DAVID-ROSE-42BILLION-Operation-Moonshot-test-trace-plan-actually-work.html

246196 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 9, #650 of 1519 🔗

To NorthumbrianNomad
Well, lots of people who post here don’t especially believe in what I shall call for the sake of brevity “conspiracy theories” (I don’t like the term as it is a lazy smear, but let’s all assume for a moment we know what we mean by this term). I think it is a legitimate debate to have, though I remain convinced that in presenting our case we’re best off steering clear of too much speculation as to motive, unless we think this changes our best tactics or convinces people more than other approaches.

Ignore them or engage with them.

To TynesideTigress
The reason why conspiracy theories have gained traction is because, rationally, no government could be this incompetent. “
I’m not sure that’s a strong argument – governments are often incompetent. Anyway, I don’t know where this “incompetence” straw man has really come from because most of those who maintain there isn’t a “global conspiracy” (again I use this ugly term as shorthand and make no statement one way or another about the truth in it) generally think that the government is arse-covering and politically expedient, and indeed conspiring among themselves and SAGE to maintain this panic for reasons of vanity, love of power etc etc – that’s not “incompetence” – it is evil, but it’s perfectly plausible to think they have arrived at this largely on their own, or by copying other countries, or being shallow enough to be influenced by global trends and agendas, rather than following external orders.

246213 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Julian, 7, #651 of 1519 🔗

I would argue, rarely, if ever, are governments and institutions serially incompetent. In this case pretty much every single decision has been wrong. I agree, they might be, at times, totally corrupt and evil. That of course, opens the way for all forms of capture, and those with agendas primed to exploit.

246256 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #652 of 1519 🔗

I would argue every single decision has been right from the point of view of political expediency and arse covering.

246311 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ steph, replying to Julian, 1, #653 of 1519 🔗

Except the lie can’t be maintained for ever, I hope, and then the consequences of doubling down every time are much worse.

246378 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to steph, 1, #654 of 1519 🔗

I think their arrogance will be their downfall

246275 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #655 of 1519 🔗

I was born in Morpeth so it’ll have to be “honourable”. Can I graze my cows on the Town Moor now?

Seriously, I understand and agree… it’s difficult to believe that they can be this incompetent. And I understand people look for reasons why that makes sense. But maybe people just have too high an opinion of what politicians and government are capable of. In a sense, the whole Bill Gates/reset thing is a kind of romantic idealism… they MUST be up to something great even if it’s EVIL… But they’re just useless, the same as the rest of us.

246307 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 2, #656 of 1519 🔗

So from the posh bit!

It’s when people in the media/political system tell you that somebody you were at college with is a ‘genius’, and you, and many of your contemporaries know otherwise, you have to favour incompetence over conspiracy. The reality is that the ones who ‘get to the top’ have skeletons in the cupboard. Perhaps that is the conspiracy. Arrogance and ignorance are poor bedfellows, leading to incompetence that can look like conspiracy. It’s impossible to know, however, until we can lay out chronologically, all the private emails, text messages etc of all the protagonists, from around 23/24 January, to be able to understand exactly what has happened.

246184 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 3, #657 of 1519 🔗

Totally agree with you. Hope you stay. I just skip reading the conspiracy theory posts. People are entitled to think what they like but I don’t have to agree or read it. As has been said people look for explanations for madness when usually there isn’t one. Chaos is chaos.

246201 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to The Spingler, 13, #658 of 1519 🔗

You are not listening well enough.
It is no longer a conspiracy when they tell you what they are planning .The climate change agenda has piggy backed onto this crisis.
If it wasn’t a conspiracy at the start it most definitely is now.

246211 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 12, #659 of 1519 🔗

The climate change agenda has been going on since the collapse of Communism in 1991. Drop a Green into power and they’ll turn Red quicker than a frog in a food blender. These people have got CCCP through the middle of them like a stick of rock.

246241 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #660 of 1519 🔗

I agree it’s a profoundly anti business and anti human agenda.It will certainly be unfree as well as Government interferes in every aspect of our lives.Why does that sound familiar?

246396 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #661 of 1519 🔗

On that at least we can definitely agree!!

246259 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to The Spingler, 4, #662 of 1519 🔗

Thank you. Occam’s Razor still applies. The simplest explanation is chaos.

246191 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 14, #663 of 1519 🔗

I think they are following a zero carbon plan that has been planned and signed off at UN summits.This is fact.They are also planning digital currencies.Fact.They are planning to roll out an untried and testing vaccine and tie it in with a digital passport so you can access our old normal.fact
It takes more faith to believe that the extra ordinary events that have occurred this year are due to the incompetence of various governments across the world.

246193 ▶▶ jb12, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 16, #664 of 1519 🔗

I notice you mention nothing about what most of the ‘conspiracy theorists’ on here have actually been saying (all of it now out in the open): a financial reset; increased surveillance under the guise of health passports; an increasing centralisation and censorship of information surrounding Covid, soon to be extended beyond it; and a coming conflict in regard to mandatory vaccinations and their unknown and/or deliberately harmful effects for their recipients. No-one who thinks that the world’s response is somehow orchestrated is saying that politicians are ‘utterly incompetent’, that is exactly the opposite of what they are saying (other than about the many MPs who just regurgitate the company line in the media and to their constituents).

So yeah, it is a bid sad you can’t bear to hear opinions you don’t agree with, but let’s not accuse people of only listening to themselves then.

246234 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to jb12, 4, #665 of 1519 🔗

Believe me, I listen to people spout opinions I don’t agree with all the bloody time. As for the “reset” – it’s a completely different issue. The entire global economic system is built on the extension of credit. It’s unsustainable and it does need addressing. There should have been a proper investment in renewable technologies ten years ago, not because of “climate change” but because they’re better and cleaner, and geopolitically speaking they neutralise the Middle East. So it’s unsurprising that governments are using this crisis as an opportunity to finally shift some shibboleths that should have been shifted a long time ago. Unfortunate, for the UK, that the NHS is not one of them.

246283 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 3, #666 of 1519 🔗

You share some personal characteristics with another poster John P.Its like you realise there is some truth in what the “conspiracy theorists “ have to say but rather than face it you are flouncing off.If you disagree then argue with facts rather than emotion.
It is ironic because massive cracks are appearing in the government narrative.The BMJ article is massive;calling out the Governments handling of the crisis.The fact that Cummings has gone,shows there is division at the very top.I’m more hopeful that I have been for a while.

246588 ▶▶▶▶ jb12, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 2, #667 of 1519 🔗

So you agree that influential people are using this situation to evoke societal change. What is the issue then? That ‘conspiracy theorists’ think that the lockdown is being extended to further those ends while you think everyone is just arrogant or stupid?

246194 ▶▶ peyrole, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 15, #668 of 1519 🔗

Some comments.
Firstly your point would have merit if it was only the UK government acting in this way. Its clearly global, and even governments like those in Japan and Sweden who have dealt with this differently ( better?) still make noises that satisfy the global perspective . For instance today Japan is talking of a third wave, when it clearly has not had any wave at all.
Secondly , governments don’t have to be taking instructions from a global elite for the same effect to take place. Leaders don’t want to be exposed so they take sanctuary in ‘group think’, its a lot easier to impose restrictions if everyone else is doing it.
However there is clearly a lot of money to be made from vaccines in such a situation. And there are a few already very rich and powerful people who crave to be more powerful.
There are also the opportunists, and here I include the people in the US who have used the coronavirus to ‘help’ remove the WH incumbent. They have enormous influence and are happy to wield it wherever required across the world.
So I think we have a very unfortunate coming together of weakness and incompetence at a local/national level and power-seeking at an international level which has coincided with a strong desire in the world’s most powerful nation to change its leadership.
Through this there is an undercurrent of ‘climate change/green initiatives’ which definitely prosper in the conditions ensuing from the reaction to coronavirus.
None of the above is a ‘conspiracy’ , its what is/has happened.

246251 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to peyrole, 4, #669 of 1519 🔗

Everything you say is perfectly true and valid. But as you yourself say, none of it means conspiracy. That’s my point: there is a sort of collective madness going on, in governments (which are composed of human beings) as well as the rest of the human race. I’d rather oppose it than be part of it.

246534 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 4, #670 of 1519 🔗

I just call it evil. The greatest outbreak of evil the humsn race has faced for centuries, or perhaps ever, because it is so widespread and there is so little resistance.
Resisting evil is what matters. Give up on that, and you’re helping to create hell on earth.Go on resisting 0, and you’re helping to prevent the creation of hell on earth.
That’s what it boils down to.

246576 ▶▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to annie, 2, #671 of 1519 🔗

Great Comment!

Resist!

246197 ▶▶ calchas, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 16, #672 of 1519 🔗

Sorry to see you go NN, if that’s what you want to do.

As others have said, you are a valued commenter. Why do we need to agree on everything?

I personally, like many others, am going through the process of trying to figure out what is going on. I see elements of conspiracy AND incompetence in the events of 2020.

Try as I might I cannot agree with the thesis that this is just some kind of blunder.

But I still want you here to try and persuade me that it is. It is only through the wrestling of different viepoints that we can move forward on understanding what is going on.

I don’t think any of us who recognize elements of ‘conspiracy’ in this are talking about anything being ‘flawless’, a you say. I think that they are making plenty of mistakes, from their own point of view.

If I were in government, how would I ‘get out of it’, as you put it?

I would do the following amongst other things:

  1. Quietly reduce the number of cycles used on the PCR, so that the number of ‘cases’ gradually reduces.
  2. As these reduce, make mask-wearing voluntary in all pubic places.
  3. Start presenting all statistics in a biased way, but this time biased towards the debunking of any real threat.
  4. Include more sceptical scientists in the advisory process.
  5. Quietly provide assistance to the sceptical movement in getting their case across.

The advantage of some of these – points 1 and 3 – is that we on this side already know that the public has difficulty understanding these things, so that the government could in this fashion, start to use the innumeracy and lack of scientific understanding for the process of de-escalation.

If the government wants to put an end to this, then why doesn’t it do any of these things?

Bear in mind that this isn’t happening only in the UK.

246210 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to calchas, 6, #673 of 1519 🔗

Good questions

Either they truly believe their own nonsense, or they lack the courage because there’s a nagging doubt that the doom predictions were right and they don’t want to be blamed for lots of deaths – which would (if it happened, which it won’t) be electoral suicide.

Or they are following other agendas

Or they are drunk on the extra power and attention that ruling by fear in an emergency gives you, and don’t want to get back to business as usual

246721 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, 1, #674 of 1519 🔗

And none of those possibilities is remotely comforting!

246719 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to calchas, 1, #675 of 1519 🔗

Exactly. Every time they’ve had an easy opportunity to scale back, they’ve doubled down!

246198 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 12, #676 of 1519 🔗

Yes you are, please don’t go. And not because of conspiracists, which is only part of us. By all means take a few days off if you need a break. I certainly read your posts, and I’m not here just for myself. I’m here for us (even, perhaps especially, for those I don’t agree with) and I’m here for my descendants. I trust that you are too.

246246 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #677 of 1519 🔗

Thank you. Point taken.

246397 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, #678 of 1519 🔗

👍

246200 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 13, #679 of 1519 🔗

@NN. You are probably right. But answer me this: Johnson made his recent conference speech against a logo that said “Build Back Better”, a slogan made up by the UN and used by politicians in other countries around the world e.g. Joe Biden. Why did Johnson use it?

In his speech, Johnson said:

“After all we have been through it isn’t enough just to go back to normal. ….We can’t define the mission of this government as to merely restore normality.”

Where the hell has that come from? The vast majority of citizens in this country, including those going along with the measures wholeheartedly, are under the illusion that normality is exactly what we are aiming for. Johnson could hold normality out as something to aim for. Indeed people might comply with his measures better. They would certainly feel more optimistic, and more likely to vote for him again in future. He is deliberately choosing to do the opposite of that. Why?

246215 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Barney McGrew, 10, #680 of 1519 🔗

Johnson explained what he meant by this,the green industrial revolution/new deal.There has just been a 4 day conference in the city of London discussing how the financing of this can be arranged.
By all means comfort yourself in believing this is all down to incompetence.They are planning our future in open sight now.

246228 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 9, #681 of 1519 🔗

I don’t believe it’s incompetence – hence my questions above. Try as I might, I cannot shake off the idea that ‘virtue signalling’ is not the harmless affectation people think it is.

The world’s leaders meet at Davos every year presumably for a reason. The organisation itself does not hide its aims. I strongly suspect that our global future is to live within a giant virtue signal.

246317 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #682 of 1519 🔗

Virtue signalling was never a joke.Its a manifestation of a very sinister agenda.That there is only one correct way of thinking and to believe anything else is to put yourself beyond the pale.

246229 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #683 of 1519 🔗

That’s what politicians do, JP. They believe that’s what they’re for . Just need to find politicians who don’t believe in it and vote accordingly…

246365 ▶▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Nick Rose, 5, #684 of 1519 🔗

That’s what they did in the US 11 days ago. They voted for someone who didn’t believe in the agenda.

Did you see what happened?

In fact, have you been watching the last 4 years to see how someone who doesn’t believe in the agenda is treated?

246401 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to calchas, #685 of 1519 🔗

Yes, have followed Brexit closely since the Referendum in 2016.

246209 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 11, #686 of 1519 🔗

If only people would take the time to listen to these vids – it’s not about conspiracies, it’s about facts:

Top lawyer Reiner Fuellmich and associates

https://soundcloud.com/ulf-bittner/dr-reiner-fuellmich-about-crimes-against-humanity-and-corona-fraud-2020-10-20 from about a month ago with Swedish interviewer.
https://youtu.be/XQYzb5_kax8 from 3 days ago, Dutch interviewer

246223 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Rosie, 2, #687 of 1519 🔗

good update, its not going to be a fast process, but it will hopefully have massive effect….

246225 ▶▶ Mark, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 10, #688 of 1519 🔗

Fwiw, I’d second those who would hope you don’t leave. Yours is one of the many names here that I expect to produce worthwhile material, whether or not I might agree with any particular comment of yours.

The benefits of open access and largely uncensored comments are significant. The costs are an inability to control what is written here, and a resulting attraction, for both good and ill, of those whose opinions are suppressed elsewhere. And guilt/shame by association is a strong force in human affairs.

Myself, I don’t suffer too strongly from sharing a space with people whose opinions I disagree with or disapprove of strongly, so long as I am free to ignore or engage them, and not censored when I do the latter robustly. but some find that unpleasant, and losing them is one of the costs of free discussion.

I’m very much at the cock up end of the spectrum, and apply the aforementioned approach to those at the other end on this issue – either ignore or engage as I feel is appropriate from time to time and case to case. I will say though that many of the most vociferous conspiracy advocates have occasionally produced either fascinating information or inspiring energy. That’s the flip side of the disadvantages of open discussion. It’s noisy, but productive.

246239 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 6, #689 of 1519 🔗

The ruthless suppression of HCQ is evidence enough for me of conspiracy.
This involved the WHO themselves and those running Recovery in the UK both running trials that involved giving thousands of seriously ill hospital patients doses of HCQ several times that which is known to be potentially fatal.
There are many other indicators supporting the same conclusion.
Such as all the demonstrable links between the members of SAGE and Bill Gates.
That doesn’t mean that that Hancock is necessarily a conscious conspiracist. Just an easily swayed individual, who was pre-disposed to be taken in.

246248 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Kevin 2, 8, #690 of 1519 🔗

I always come back to the decision of the French government on January 13th 2020 to make HCQ ‘prescription only’, following 60 years, during which it had been available over the counter.

This was several weeks before HCQ became controversial. Indeed while covid was till a ‘chinese issue’, and hardly anyone had died.

246367 ▶▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to calchas, 2, #691 of 1519 🔗

I believe Dr Kendrick some time ago also touted the benefits of this, and said he was confident it would be helpful in a large % of covid-infections. He made inquiries about getting some for his Health trust & community, but was totally unable to do so.

246394 ▶▶▶▶ peyrole, replying to calchas, 3, #692 of 1519 🔗

Shortly followed by the UK government buying up all the stock in the UK.

246243 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 11, #693 of 1519 🔗

Thank you to everyone who’s urging me to stay. And to those who disagree with me, you may be right and I may be wrong. Taking a few days off is good advice and I will do that. All I will add at this point is: the purpose of all our endeavours is surely to put a stop to lockdown. I submit that it’s better to get out there and talk sense to people. And keep talking.

246368 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 1, #694 of 1519 🔗

Agreed!

Enjoy the break.

246289 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 9, #695 of 1519 🔗

I’m surprised at the size of the can of worms I’ve opened. I’m surprised so many people noticed what I was doing, to be honest. So, once again, thanks, even to those who disagree. I now have a green curry that isn’t going to cook itself and I need a break from the screen. I will come back here when the mood takes me and I feel resilient enough. Enjoy your weekends.

246292 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 5, #696 of 1519 🔗

I veer between cock-up and vague ideas of ‘conspiracy’ all the time. But for me, it’s not normally a case of ‘snapping out’ of the conspiracy frame of mind. It’s usually the opposite.

What happens is that I’m getting on with my day and I forget about Covid – as most people do: people are not dropping dead on street corners; most people don’t even know anyone who’s had it. But then I suddenly realise the absurdity of a government mandating face masks and their voters going along with it; the absurdity of people not being able to plan Christmas for fear their neighbours report them to the authorities; the absurdity of the army on the streets of Liverpool, and so on. The absurdities – and resemblances to East Germany, a place and society that actually existed – are too many to list.

And then I remember that there really have been people throughout history – odd people, strange people, charismatic people – who actually wanted to live in a dystopia. Maybe they thought it would be utopia if only people obeyed the ‘rules’, but the reality they created was poverty, bloodshed, death. Why could it not be our turn?

246323 ▶▶ Jo, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 3, #697 of 1519 🔗

Stay. Even if you have to have a short break from it. It is good that we have different views – otherwise we would have fallen victim to brainwashing/groupthink too. I’m an opinionated person, but sometimes I don’t know what to think – all I know (for as sure as I possibly can be) is that lockdowns are wrong, full stop. We all think that, but vary on other matters, which is fine and how it should be.

246341 ▶▶ annie, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 6, #698 of 1519 🔗

Please don’t go.
We are not all conspiracy theorists.We are all standing for freedom, honesty, truth, ordinary human decency, and solidarity against extreme evil.
We are weaker without you.

246347 ▶▶ Jonny S., replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 4, #699 of 1519 🔗

NorthumbrianNomad without extremes at either side then there is no sane middle ground for you to fight for. Do what you must but stay sane and stay safe.

246147 Voz 0db, 3, #700 of 1519 🔗

RULES just for the sheeple!

comment image

246159 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 12, #701 of 1519 🔗

A few weeks ago I read a prediction that something big would happen to certain “leaders” around the middle of November and that things would change.

Timing seems about right for it all to start happening.

Now will the changes be for the good or make things worse?

246839 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, #702 of 1519 🔗

Interesting. Where did you read that and can you give more details please?

246161 leggy, replying to leggy, 4, #703 of 1519 🔗

Been watching a little of the protest in Bristol. Three arrests on camera so far, one particularly brutal.

https://youtu.be/zwYFYmntB_o

246299 ▶▶ mjr, replying to leggy, 3, #704 of 1519 🔗

looks like Piers Corbyn nicked again

246164 Mark, replying to Mark, 15, #705 of 1519 🔗

The BMJ’s new recognition of the problems with suppression of information and of science, linked below by Farfrae, is fascinating, as much for what it leaves out as for what it includes.

When good science is suppressed by the medical-political complex, people die

Hard to disagree with much of what it does cover. Government secrecy in these areas is costly and profoundly wrong. While it is conceivable that secrecy could occasionally be justified, if there are genuine possibilities of panic, breach of privacy etc, we know from experience that such pretexts are invariably exaggerated and selectively applied to suit other agendas.

But the BMJ makes no reference to the huge role of the science establishment, including the BMJ itself, in suppressing coronapanic dissent, on the pretext that reporting or expressing dissenting information and opinion is “irresponsible”.

And while it interestingly criticises the US government on the basis that it supposedly “ manipulated the Food and Drug Administration to hastily approve unproved drugs such as hydroxychloroquine and remdesivir “, it pointedly fails to admit that the approval of the mass use of an experimental vaccine represents exactly the same misfeasance.

One rule for politicians and policies of which the BMJ approves, and another for those it dislikes, apparently.

246190 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Mark, 12, #706 of 1519 🔗

A bit of selective criticism for sure by the BMJ. However, some explosive stuff to be coming from them. This is as close as they can get for calling out the root and branch corruption. Name names. Enquiry now!

246206 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 4, #707 of 1519 🔗

My suspicion is that their criticism and the implicit call for action in response is (by no means coincidentally) just like the Labour Party’s – focused on scoring points against political opponents while carefully protecting their own illiberal positions and preferred policies.

246237 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 5, #708 of 1519 🔗

Enquiry now!”

That isn’t going to happen; there’s a lot more ground to be fought for before getting anywhere near such an objective.

In that context, the BMJ editorial is a major step forward.

It’s easy to want more – but achieving it is going to require step-by-step progress.

246422 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to RickH, #709 of 1519 🔗

This is what is so frustrating – why do we have to wait for everyone else to catch up – we’ve all been onto this for months (some for years) – I’m too impatient for this game, i want to play another one now

246240 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 4, #710 of 1519 🔗

TL,DR: SAGE is more bent than a 45p

246280 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to DRW, 2, #711 of 1519 🔗

Think the phrase is ‘bent as a nine bob note’ 😉

246326 ▶▶ 1stJamie, replying to Mark, 5, #712 of 1519 🔗

Perhaps the BMJ would like to publish the Danish Mask Study??

246167 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 44, #713 of 1519 🔗

Might be going a bit quieter in coming weeks as might be starting a contract that amongst other things transports specimens and samples from hospitals to labs.

Will let you know how I get on with the mask exemptions, any gossip, observations etc.

Son bought me a snood type thing that has a semi-skeleton/ skull motif that covers from the nose down so it they insist on one that’s what I’m wearing – he’s wearing something even worse when he has to in Poland and keeps getting complaints he is scaring children and says “so what? You wanted a face covering, I’ve got face covering”

Awkward Git in training.

246204 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #714 of 1519 🔗

Do drop by to say hello, AG – you’re a great inspiration to me and others !

246224 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #715 of 1519 🔗

Good luck! Thanks for all the work and info. What is a ‘snood’? I keep asking but nobody ever tells me. MW

246258 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Mark, #717 of 1519 🔗

Ta – it’s what I call a Buff (maybe that’s a brand name). I wear one round my neck on my bike in winter. Never as a ‘face covering’ though! MW

246255 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #718 of 1519 🔗

Interestingly (for me, anyway) your question prompted me to check the origin of the term. I’d always assumed it was some modern portmanteau based on combining “hood” with something else, but it seems it’s actually an old English word, and a traditional garment:

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/snood

246285 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Mark, 2, #719 of 1519 🔗

Yes, I had looked it up and couldn’t work out how a hair-covering could be a face-covering. Now I know ‘snood’ is used to describe one of those tubular scarves it makes more sense. I assume it’s an Americanism. MW

246342 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #720 of 1519 🔗

I think so.

By the way if the two of you are in the Sheffield area let me know if you fancy meeting up for a walk. My wife and I have two labradors to walk daily in the Ecclesall/Ringinglow/Redmires areas, so we are out and about regularly.

246595 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Mark, #721 of 1519 🔗

What a lovely idea! We don’t run a car but we can easily get to, say, Grindleford or Dore stations. If you give us a day and time, we’d be happy to happen to be ‘somewhere in the vicinity’ 🙂 MW

246701 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #722 of 1519 🔗

Both great places to walk from and not far from us. I’ll monitor the weather and suggest something in the next week or two. If you can make a post on the forums here or find one of mine, we can make contact by private message.

246781 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Mark, #723 of 1519 🔗

Yes, we’ll do that and we’ll look forward to it! MW

246203 Covid survival rates, replying to Covid survival rates, 1, #725 of 1519 🔗

Can anyone post a link to the UK survival rates for covid? Searching Google is like wading through a cess pit with all the Liberal sites attempting their “debunking” by misrepresenting facts. Thanks.

246346 ▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Covid survival rates, 1, #726 of 1519 🔗

Obviously it’s going to vary considerably (not unlike any illness in history!) due to a number of factors – age, lifestyle, pre-existing conditions. For a large portion of the population, survival rate is est. around 99.5-99.9%.
Prof Whitty in a lecture at Gresham College earlier this year, IFR est. overall at or below 1% (p9)
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/content.gresham.ac.uk/data/binary/3292/2020-04-30_Whitty_t.pdf

Also a WHO peer reviewed report indicates IFR for <70 likely around 0.3 (median 0.5%)

246420 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Stringfellow Hawke, #727 of 1519 🔗

I was looking for Ioannidis’s paper the other day and couldn’t find it anywhere!! Thank you.

246222 Dan Clarke, 7, #728 of 1519 🔗

Why are people amazed at the incompetence of this government. Has their been a time when Johnson wasn’t making news re his ‘schemes’ ‘plans’ and plain madness, his garden bridge, water cannons, and there’s more.

246232 Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 6, #729 of 1519 🔗

My 1 year old son likes to play with the tv remote, and it often ends up with some strange channel being on.

Yesterday, he accidentally flicked over to an Indian news channel. Their media are just as covid crazy as ours. There were scary numbers being flashed up on screen about hospital bed occupancy in New Delhi, but when I converted the numbers into percentages, there were approx 16% of non ventilator ICU beds available and 14% of ventilator ICU beds available there. Unless they always have a huge surplus, this can’t really be out of the ordinary for the region surely?

246309 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 3, #730 of 1519 🔗

Yeah, it’s not like global media are singing from the same song sheet or anything is it.

246385 ▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to leggy, 1, #731 of 1519 🔗

It was identical. If it wasn’t for the accents I could have mistaken it for Sky News.

246235 DRW, replying to DRW, 7, #732 of 1519 🔗

I was thinking this morning that I was once doing well at my previous employer and university
and there are still some things I’d like to achieve. Now both sectors have done their
absolute best to anger me I may as well give up. Not just the institutional zealotry or the usual corrupt suspects but the many who are enjoying this becasue they can ride the mainstream bandwagon to make a name for themselves. And as it gets everywhere it angers me because I just really want to get away from it. It’s like SM users who just can’t miss out on doing the latest dank meme to get those hits and subscribers. Another student I know says they just switch off whenever it’s brought up because they’re sick to their teeth of hearing about it (the likely majority opinion now). If only there was some sort of “sceptic foundation” providing quality sceptical arguments.

Plus with me struggling generally right now it’s probably getting to me more than it should.

246252 ▶▶ steph, replying to DRW, 7, #733 of 1519 🔗

Be kind to yourself. Take a break from here if it helps but know that we are here to support you if you need it. Nobody thinks straight in the early stages of grief so don’t expect yourself to be rational.
The only advice I would give is do not make any irrevocable decisions in these early days. Speak to friends and family if you can and deal with what can’t wait. Leave everything else that can.

246268 ▶▶ Julian, replying to DRW, 6, #734 of 1519 🔗

If only there was some sort of “sceptic foundation” providing quality sceptical arguments.

Not exactly, but this site, Simon Dolan and Keep Britain Free, t4recovery, Great Barrington Declaration, some doctors stuff that I cannot recall the name of (German and others), Lord Sumption, Peter Hitchens, TalkRadio, some political parties (Reform, Reclaim, SDP, Brexit), the Tory rebels, the Covid Recovery Group, some thing just launched that I forget the name of to collect evidence of coronapanic harms, Ivor Cummins. Lots of quality sceptical arguments there, and some not so good.

246335 ▶▶ annie, replying to DRW, 4, #735 of 1519 🔗

Anyone who makes a name for him/ herself on this bandwagon will soon find that that name stinks.

Brew a cuppa, then go out for a walk in a zombie-free space. Smile at all nappy-free folk. Talk to dog owners. I’ve never met a zombie dog owner yet.

You’re young and strong. Lay hold on life and it will reward you.

246743 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to annie, #736 of 1519 🔗

What a lovely last sentence.

246349 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to DRW, 1, #737 of 1519 🔗

There is still plenty for you to achieve, DRW, and so you will. We will all find a way – it won’t always be like it is now, even if things don’t evolve exactly as we might hope. You have every reason to be struggling – your feelings are yours alone and they will never be wrong or right, they just are. Anger isn’t a particularly pleasant feeling, but it can be pretty darn useful. Don’t weigh yourself down with ‘shoulds’ – they are never in our best interests. We’re with you in spirit all the way.

246708 ▶▶ Marialta, replying to DRW, #738 of 1519 🔗

May I ask what subject you’re studying and at what level
DRW?

246713 ▶▶▶ Marialta, replying to Marialta, #739 of 1519 🔗

Reading Spiked may help and Unherd writers are very good. I also recommend The Critic.

246244 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 30, #740 of 1519 🔗

Our daughter has just phoned us after 2 weeks’ silence following a visit (hugs all round, of course.) We had texted her a few times with no reply and we had started to worry. Various scenarios crossed our minds, one of which was that they had succumbed to the Black Death. Well guess what?

It seems our grandson started coughing when she got home from ours and was so bad with it she thought she’d better get him tested. Positive. Then she and her partner started coughing too, got tested and, yes, both positive. Grandson’s dad also tested positive (no symptoms) and his flatmate tested negative.

So far, so November 2021 in a ‘blended family’ in Sheffield. But the real story is how irrationally our daughter and her friends have behaved. Firstly, and hurtfully, she says she was scared to contact us because she ‘knows our views’ about testing. Now that’s bizarre: she’s in our house, hugging us, then apparently comes down with CV19 a couple of days later. She said she didn’t want to dob us in to T&T – fine! – but with Alan being on the ‘extremely vulnerable’ list, it might have been at least useful information to know that we really had (potentially) been in close proximity with an infectious person for most of a day, be it CV19 or not! After all, they were ill with something . We think she was holding her breath that we wouldn’t get sick as, of course, we’d have told her straightaway. If we didn’t get sick, it meant she was off the hook for now – talk about burying your head!!

We were at pains to reassure her that we didn’t blame her for getting tested because in her case there are work/school issues. Now, it seems, she has had awful grief from 2 friends she’d also been close to the same weekend and who she also didn’t tell and didn’t dob in to T&T because she knew they needed to keep working (neither of them have since shown signs of illness).  Now, they’re really angry with her, as is her step-daughter’s mum who is incandescent because our daughter let the child – who tested negative – go to school. Mum says her daughter has put ’60 kids in danger of dying’ etc.  All these hysterics are perfectly happy to break the ‘rules’ when it suits them but they scream and shout when anyone else breaks them. It is fairly obvious from what people say that this is typical.

So basically, not only have they been a down with some seasonal virus or other, possibly CV19, but also, they’re now in ‘the system’. She has been given hell from hysterical friends and family. To make matters worse, she cut herself off from her folks (us) who would have been supportive and sympathetic. The irony is she has been getting increasingly sceptical for weeks and is now full-on, almost like us.

What a bloody mess and we all agreed how the brainwashing is destroying all common sense and bonds between people who were previously solid and supportive of each other. It is horrible.

The good news is that they are all OK now apart from residual coughs and tiredness.  At least, if it was The Black Death, they’ve done their bit for herd immunity and they are now a poster family for how small a deal it is to ‘get IT’. MW

246270 ▶▶ Mark, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 10, #741 of 1519 🔗

brainwashing is destroying all common sense

Depressingly true. Your description of responses highlights the literal hysteria that is still prevalent, after all these months.

246278 ▶▶ RickH, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 13, #742 of 1519 🔗

60 kids in danger of dying”

The degree of ignorance is frightening.

246293 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to RickH, 3, #743 of 1519 🔗

I know. Actually the person in question is both malign and bonkers but her response is scarily typical. MW

246942 ▶▶▶▶ Winter, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #744 of 1519 🔗

It’s fear though, isn’t it. Doesn’t half seem to strip people down to their basic essence.

246343 ▶▶ Liz F, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #745 of 1519 🔗

Absolutely right about the effects of the covid brainwashing. I’m dismayed by how rude, unkind, suspicious, over-reactive and generally unpleasant people have become (LS readers excepted, of course 😉 ). Boris, you have a lot to answer for.

246431 ▶▶▶ steph, replying to Liz F, 6, #746 of 1519 🔗

How easily many have slipped into that behaviour shows the veneer of civilisation was always very thin. I will never look at people the same way again. Most are basically nasty or stupid or a fatal combination of both.

246693 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, replying to steph, 3, #747 of 1519 🔗

I feel exactly the same way Steph. If this ever ends, I know I will not look upon people the same way again. We are finalizing our move out of Toronto — moving all our things on Tuesday to the country home which is now our permanent home. We moved to a condo not even a year ago and have given up on Toronto and on communal living. We hadn’t had problems with living in a small building but I never, ever want to be at the mercy of others again if I can help it. I have come to despise my fellow human beings, particularly in the city where the virtue signalling is out of control. I don’t even like how I have changed because I now feel such intense hatred for other people where before I had a generosity of spirit. My husband and I are all about us and our kids now, and perhaps the rest of the family and close friends, but don’t give a crap about other people any longer. I don’t know how or if we can get back to treating people respectfully again. The damage to human relations may be irreparable.

246995 ▶▶▶▶▶ Borisbullshit, replying to Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, #748 of 1519 🔗

I think William Golding in ‘Lord of the Flies’ gave an account of how the veneer of civilisation is very thin. I have long been a non liker of people but this shit show has taken me much further down that road. I too,intend to move further out into the country where there are no neighbours to spy on me. I would much rather have cows and sheep for neighbours than people the way most have become. I have ditched some family and friends as I really do not want to be around people who think its ok to withdraw services from those who do not trust a vaccine or who want to destroy the arts and culture and everything that it means to be human. The craven submission to orthodoxy,the desperate desire to stay with the herd,the refusal to disbelieve the BBC and the refusal to do any independent research have led me to no longer want to be around them.

246371 ▶▶ Julian, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #749 of 1519 🔗

Families are complicated and our bastard government is not helping

I like to think I would let people know personally so they can decide what they want to do about it but would not give any information to a third party

246417 ▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #750 of 1519 🔗

I can’t understand the lack of reasoning going on in too many people’s heads. My sister is completely anti vaccine, believes that there is a cure for cancer but that big pharma make more money from cancer treatments, thinks majority of doctors are crap, the list is endless. Get this though, she HAS bought in to all this crap and says what a scary disease it is and we need to do something, i.e lockdown!. I bloody give up.

246501 ▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #751 of 1519 🔗

The government’s “divide et impera” policy at work, turning families against eachother, friends against friends, turning society into informants for the Gestapo.

246759 ▶▶ Sue, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #752 of 1519 🔗

bizarre – i understand not dobbing someone in with the T&T and they get constant phone calls and mandatory self isolation. But surely a text to say person x is positive and then they can make their own mind up as to how to handle it and precautions to take.

246785 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Sue, #753 of 1519 🔗

Yes, we agree. We talked for ages and we think she understands now where she went wrong. I think it was a genuine case of panic but, if any of us who she didn’t inform had become sick, it could all have been a real mess. MW

246260 Adam, 7, #754 of 1519 🔗

I don’t get it oust Cummings and Cain but keep Hancock Witty Vallance wtf is that about

246274 Ewan Duffy, 7, #755 of 1519 🔗

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40082294.html

87% rise in domestic violence cases reaching DPP in Ireland during the lockdown. DPP is the Irish equivalent of the CPS in the UK or a DA in the USA.

246282 chaos, replying to chaos, 11, #756 of 1519 🔗

How many of the tories are in on this faux green Great Reset? Surely.. most haven’t a clue what is happening? Petrol and diesel engines gone by 2030 really? Why is Carrie an advisor? She quit to join Oceana?!

246345 ▶▶ Alice, replying to chaos, 1, #758 of 1519 🔗

Sorry, my reply to you is “awaiting approval” – I must have done something wrong – maybe it’s the links?

I’ll try again, in case it’s not approved: Simon Dolan (on Twitter) referreed to Carrie Symmonds as “acting Prime Minister”. He also gave a link to a Daily Mail article:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6157149/Shocking-pictures-reveal-glamorous-PR-guru-Carrie-Symonds-30-starred-satanic-sex-cult.html

246362 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Alice, #759 of 1519 🔗

More than a couple of links and they are automatically flagged as needing approval

246392 ▶▶ CGL, replying to chaos, #760 of 1519 🔗

Apparently mine is in on it hook line and sinker, I’ve just found out this morning

246440 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to chaos, 1, #761 of 1519 🔗

I don’t recall Ms Carrie Symonds being on the ballot paper last December?

After years of being a Al Johnson fan, I couldn’t bring myself to vote for him or the Tories last December (I spoilt my ballot paper). This was due to his extreme unquestioning support of the broken NHS and eco Lunacy. O how I wish that I’d been wrong.

246845 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to chaos, #762 of 1519 🔗

I’ve been a bit out of the loop – is she really an advisor? Officially? Or is that our ‘take’ here now that Dom C has gone?

246288 chaos, replying to chaos, 37, #763 of 1519 🔗

I’m not the only one really struggling am I… many of you guys are too right? And you are here for all of us right? We are here to support each other? This mad scamdemic new abnormal.. world.. I am struggling.

246295 ▶▶ leggy, replying to chaos, 27, #764 of 1519 🔗

Hundreds of millions of people are struggling mentally across the globe. We have to support each other.

246296 ▶▶ Jo, replying to chaos, 14, #765 of 1519 🔗

Me too.

246297 ▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to chaos, 37, #766 of 1519 🔗

The part I’m struggling with the most is how so many people refuse to acknowledge what’s going on no matter how many facts you present them with.

246316 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Anothersceptic2, 16, #767 of 1519 🔗

Me too and it’s them keeping this ruddy shit-show on the road.

246332 ▶▶▶ steph, replying to Anothersceptic2, 18, #768 of 1519 🔗

Yes. Had a total meltdown earlier in the week. Facts bounce off these people. I’ve had discussions where my point has been taken with a sage nod of the head and then no more than five minutes later the same old garbage comes out of the same mouth. They just can’t compute and probably don’t want to. I dread to think how they will all cope when finally told they can take their masks off and breathe. I think a good proportion of them simply won’t.

246344 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to steph, 7, #769 of 1519 🔗

Programmed like Pavlovs dog

246521 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to steph, 2, #770 of 1519 🔗

In that case they can bloody well suffocate, and good riddance.

246360 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Anothersceptic2, 12, #771 of 1519 🔗

It’s easier to fool people than convince them they’ve been fooled.

246300 ▶▶ Liam, replying to chaos, 26, #772 of 1519 🔗

I hit a major low last week. Believe you me, everyone here understands.

246302 ▶▶ watashi, replying to chaos, 15, #773 of 1519 🔗

I’m with you chaos. If I can do anything to help I would like to do so.

246318 ▶▶ bobdobbs0507, replying to chaos, 14, #774 of 1519 🔗

My ‘word with myself’: You are not alone. It’s not ‘all in your head’. It’s really happening and it is taking its toll on us all. Dig deep and then dig deeper. What doesn’t kill you will make you stranger, I mean stronger 🙂

246327 ▶▶ annie, replying to chaos, 11, #775 of 1519 🔗

We are here to support one another.
Lean on us.
This will end.

246334 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to chaos, 11, #776 of 1519 🔗

I’m struggling most days, Chaos. I’m aiming to get through one day at a time, which is not my usual style. I have always had goals in mind, something to move positively towards and I feel completely at sea without that. I honestly can’t imagine what state I’d be in without everyone here, you included.

246655 ▶▶▶ Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, replying to Charlie Blue, 4, #777 of 1519 🔗

That’s one of the most insidious things about all of this — nobody can make plans for the future. And by future I mean next week or next month. There is no predictability to this life and humans need both predictability and a sense of future. If you’re not struggling during this dystopian nightmare you are not quite human. I’m thankful every day for this forum.

246364 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to chaos, 8, #778 of 1519 🔗

I’m struggling today too. I’m very up and down, some days are fine and others are awful. Today’s not a good day. 😪

246390 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 5, #779 of 1519 🔗

Weather doesn’t help does it

247013 ▶▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to CGL, 1, #780 of 1519 🔗

No, it’s so dismal. I try to get out for a walk in the daylight every day to stave off the winter blues.

246495 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 3, #781 of 1519 🔗

Am I right in thinking we have the same employer?, if so, is there anyway we can link up for a chat or messaging away from here?

246993 ▶▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to stefarm, 1, #782 of 1519 🔗

Yes we do. I’m happy to chat, do you know if there’s a DM facility on this site?

247012 ▶▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to stefarm, 1, #783 of 1519 🔗

I think I’ve cracked the DM and I’ve sent you a message. Go into the forums, click on your user name then user control panel and there’s an option below for private messages.

246372 ▶▶ DRW, replying to chaos, 3, #784 of 1519 🔗

So am I if it’s any consolation.

246377 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to chaos, 7, #785 of 1519 🔗

People have had to struggle throughout history and this is our defining one I feel. Feel emboldened that you are on the side of truth

246739 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #786 of 1519 🔗

That’s a perceptive comment.

246384 ▶▶ CGL, replying to chaos, 5, #787 of 1519 🔗

Broken down twice this week – you are definitely not alone no.

246291 leggy, replying to leggy, 8, #788 of 1519 🔗

Piers Corbyn currently being arrested again in Bristol.

246303 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to leggy, 7, #789 of 1519 🔗

Poor man. They really have it in for him. Amazing that he is coping

246314 ▶▶ Jonny S., replying to leggy, 10, #790 of 1519 🔗

Shows the incompetence of the plod. They keep spelling Morgan as Corbyn

246333 ▶▶ Mark, replying to leggy, 7, #791 of 1519 🔗

His brother should meet up with him for some lessons in how to actually oppose, and how to be actually anti-establishment.

246308 Ewan Duffy, replying to Ewan Duffy, 2, #792 of 1519 🔗

https://www.buzz.ie/news/viking-splash-tour-liquidation-399783

Another tourist business in Dublin to not reopen – company going into liquidation.

246336 ▶▶ steph, replying to Ewan Duffy, 2, #793 of 1519 🔗

Did the London one a few years ago. Lots of fun. They’ve had their issues including a sinking! Currently suspended because they have no access to a slipway which impacted them before Covid madness could have had a effect

246352 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to steph, 1, #794 of 1519 🔗

I understand from a friend of mine (who, co-incidentally passed away three weeks ago due to cancer) that there were higher safety requirements on the Dublin operation involving the fitting of extra bouyancy aids immediately before the vehicle entered the water (and removal again after leaving the water) compared to London. No sinkings in Dublin!

246350 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 7, #795 of 1519 🔗

Has anybody else spotted this?

https://twitter.com/Richard06466918/status/1327495251121106944

Beds/hospitals are busier in some areas because of isolation of so called “covid” patients who are then kept until they have “tested” negative it’s fucking up all my staff and wards

246375 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Nick Rose, 5, #796 of 1519 🔗

Manufactured staff crisis via PCR

246354 annie, 19, #797 of 1519 🔗

Just got beguiled into spending an extra tenner on face cream, thanks to the niceness of a young shop assistant who treated unmuzzled me with such simple, normal friendliness. She was nappied herself, but what else could she do if she wanted to keep her job?

The face cream promises to smooth out my wrinkles.I sometimes think it’s a pity I’m sceptical by nature, as well as wrinkly due to age.

246356 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 6, #798 of 1519 🔗

Blast from the past concerning rushed vaccines:

https://twitter.com/LotusOak2/status/1327284019424321536

President Ford planned to vaccinate 1 million people/day, started in Oct 1976. Problems emerged; deaths & cases of GBS. Panic emerged, dozens of states paused vaccinations. By December, after 94 reports of paralysis, the entire program was shut down.

246520 ▶▶ annie, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #799 of 1519 🔗

Reads like a prophecy, bear it in mind.
Our local zombies believe in the Magic Vaccine just as they believe in the Magic Mask. If course, both work: nobody hereabouts is dying of the (pUse for fanfare!) TWENTY-FOURTH most common cause of death in Wales.

Moral death by cowardice is, however, common. Is there a vaccine against acute poltroonery?

246359 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, #800 of 1519 🔗

Anyone come across this site before:

https://adapnation.io/how-is-your-local-hospital-coping/

Not on pc till later to download spreadsheet but could be some very useful stats.

246370 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Sarigan, 6, #801 of 1519 🔗

Yes, been perusing the data. The hospital staff absence numbers are very interesting in particular. For example my local hospital had zero covid patients from June – October yet had many hundreds of staff absent a good proportion due to covid. Given that most testing at that point was in healthcare settings, it’s further evidence of the casedemic to me.

246425 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to leggy, 1, #802 of 1519 🔗

Of course, a key question is whether absence is ‘due to Covid’ or a result of testing.

246706 ▶▶▶▶ Jo Dominich -, replying to RickH, #803 of 1519 🔗

Or just an excuse to scive as NHS staff are prone to doing.

246373 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Sarigan, 1, #804 of 1519 🔗

They are excellent

246380 ▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to Sarigan, 1, #805 of 1519 🔗

so that says we have still have 30,000 or so beds available, our local hospital is nowhere near at capacity.

246403 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Anothersceptic2, 1, #806 of 1519 🔗

But masses of the staff are off shielding or self-isolating, we are told. So the beds are neither here nor there if there are no staff. A ridiculous state of affairs, no doubt, but maybe a distraction from the real manufactured problem.

246389 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to Sarigan, 2, #807 of 1519 🔗

Very interesting. Look at the article about the Pfizer vaccine.

https://adapnation.io/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-pfizer-mrna-vaccine/

246473 ▶▶▶ Zak Thelotofem, replying to Basileus, #808 of 1519 🔗

Interesting. 43500 participants with 94 Covid-19 cases = rate of 0.2%

246405 ▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to Sarigan, 1, #809 of 1519 🔗

Just going through and selecting some notable hospitals and then some at random it appears the majority are under capacity and in most cases well below the average for this time of year as well.

246379 paologrigio, replying to paologrigio, 11, #810 of 1519 🔗

BBC news website headline – “Cummings exit gives chance to RESET government”. Drip drip of the propaganda

246393 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to paologrigio, 2, #811 of 1519 🔗

”Propaganda”. I’ve just been reading quotes from Jacques Ellul in Goodreads. Says it all really.
Also do watch the youtube video of Dr Mike Yeadon and Dr Fuellmich.

246395 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to paologrigio, #812 of 1519 🔗

Indeedy, They kept repeating that word on the radio last night …

246400 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to kh1485, 12, #813 of 1519 🔗

In the video I keep banging on about (above) Dr Yeadon mentions PsyOps and the sudden appearance in our language of these ”buzz phrases” and where they originate.
He’s trying hard not to be a conspiracy theorist, you can tell, but it’s beginning to be an uphill struggle for him – and for many of us!

246409 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Banjones, 6, #814 of 1519 🔗

Exactly. Felt like hurling the radio out of the window, the word was mentioned that many times.

Thanks for the link, will watch this evening when I get home.

246451 ▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Banjones, 4, #815 of 1519 🔗

Keep banging, Banjones, as I’m tired of being almost a lone voice concerning Reiner Fuellmich. His factual manner but warmhearted and powerfully motivated keeps me going from day to day, and motivates me.

He’s the real deal, and we’ve now got such a low view of our own public figures that it restores my faith in humanity.

His associates are doing presentations in every town and they have 40,000 people leafletting, compared to six people here.

We can all support his efforts by debrainwashing people, one at a time.

246436 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to paologrigio, #816 of 1519 🔗

Today’s buzz word

246386 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 46, #817 of 1519 🔗

I know my fellow sceptics must be sick and tired of listening to the report of my blood donor session yesterday but I think that this part is worth telling.
I was talking to the girl who I would say was around 25 who took my donation and I was telling her about the Asian flu of the 50’s and the Hong Kong flu of 1968.
This young girl asked me “What sort of lockdown took place then?”
When I told that there wasn’t a lockdown and life carried on as normal, she was incredulous to say the least.
It seems to me now that in the future that there will be an increasing number of people who will accept that every time that there is an outbreak of flu, there will be some sort of cessation of normal life.
Truly, truly frightening.

246406 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Fingerache Philip., 49, #818 of 1519 🔗

It seems to me now that in the future that there will be an increasing number of people who will accept that every time that there is an outbreak of flu, there will be some sort of cessation of normal life .”

This, imo, is the only logical outcome unless this present panic concludes with a true and full recognition of just how disastrously counterproductive the whole panic was.

The cultural enablers and drivers of the response – authoritarianism, hysterical intolerance of risk, sanctimonious intolerance of dissent “for the greater good”, inappropriate obsession with well funded “experts” and with modelling – are strong in all the dominant modern global cultures.

That’s one reason why just being happy to get out of the present situation, perhaps via a concocted “vaccine rescue”, while understandable, is imo short-sighted. We need to end it with utter discredit for the advocates. Or it will happen again, and soon.

246419 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Mark, 9, #819 of 1519 🔗

Brilliant appraisal, Mark.

246435 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Mark, 11, #820 of 1519 🔗

This conclusion touches on one of the things that troubles me about the current situation. Many who were sceptical of the lockdown responses from the outset have enthusiastically welcomed the coming around of high profile people who supported the lockdown in March, seeing this as a sign of progress. I understand this position. But what I find troubling is that many of such converts (probably to justify their earlier position) are very weak. They do not accept that the lockdown responses were wrong from the outset, would, entirely predictably, cause more harm than the virus ever could, and are the wrong measures for a respiratory viral infection. Their support brings with it the notion that lockdowns are appropriate if the lethality of the disease is above a certain level or if the lethality of the disease is unknown. Their support implies that the lockdown was a rational, responsible and competent policy response to the virus and therefore lockdowns remain a reasonable and appropriate policy option for the future.

246445 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Steve Hayes, 11, #821 of 1519 🔗

Yes even if we do manage to get back to real normal the precedent will still worry me. We’re only ever another pandemic away from doing this bullshit all over again.

246476 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to DRW, 3, #822 of 1519 🔗

And pandemics come around every decade or so.

246571 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #823 of 1519 🔗

What a brilliant fucking future awaits us…

246515 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Mark, 3, #824 of 1519 🔗

My view exactly, and it’s why my heart sank when the upcoming vaccine was announced, as if it does appear it will validate the whole strategy of locking down until the scientific cavalry saves us.

246411 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Fingerache Philip., 12, #825 of 1519 🔗

“What sort of lockdown took place then”

Jesus wept!

246421 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to calchas, 5, #826 of 1519 🔗

Yes,utterly depressing and frightening.

246604 ▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #827 of 1519 🔗

Only an ironic tone could have rescued the remark.

246412 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Fingerache Philip., 15, #828 of 1519 🔗

That’s an interesting insight from someone who is in the same age-group as me. We obviously both remember those earlier serious viral outbreaks, and probably have no illusions about how severe the effects can be in the worst cases. The 1957/8 pandemic is burned in my memory.

Then there are all the other more serious outbreaks in between (I reckon about two dozen) – which passed without much notice.

… and I feel that you’re right that, unless a breakthrough can be made, this brainwashing will lead to long-time conditioning.

The most disturbing fact in today’s edition is about the percentage of the population who actually believe that the most significant cause of death is Covid (when in fact it rates 19th). The induced delusion is immense – and even more so in its implications. I doubt that hallucinogenic drugs could have done a better job.

Then we have the pile of accrued evidence that shows no effect from the majority of imposed measures (note that RCT of two groups of marines) … and yet a large proportion wander around credulously believing as if hypnotised.

246441 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to RickH, 7, #829 of 1519 🔗

Yes, R H, my mother in law caught Asian flu in 56/57 as did my younger brother who was 4 or 5 at the time.
I well remember looking at my brother in bed and I thought that he was going to burn though his pillow, his body was that red.
My future mother in law described the Asian flu symptoms as “like having buckets of ice cold water continuously poured over my head” and could not eat anything for almost a week.
Strangely in both families, no other member caught it.
PS: My mother in law is still with us at age 95 and certainly makes up day in, day out, that week she went without eating anything and my brother is still “a pain in the neck” aged 68.

246463 ▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #830 of 1519 🔗

The 1957 flu also involved throwing up and for many lasted longer than a week
I had the 1968/9 flu twice, both times involved acute dizziness and I was unable even to turn over in bed. One lasted two weeks the other lasted three weeks, ended up as thin as a rake. Noone else I knew had it.

246413 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Fingerache Philip., 7, #831 of 1519 🔗

It’s inevitable. Lock downs are now drummed into the public psyche.

246480 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Fingerache Philip., 10, #832 of 1519 🔗

In my experience a lot of under 35s,but not all by any means,seem to view this year as a kind of ‘year zero’ and disregard everything that has happened before,they believe covid is the worst thing that has ever happened to mankind.When I have mentioned previous virus outbreaks and diseases such as TB and Cholera and the toll they took on the population the response I get is a blank look and the implication I am just an old fart.
From now on every little outbreak of illness,be it food poisoning,flu or absolutely anything at all,will be met with hysteria.

246584 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Paul, 2, #833 of 1519 🔗

I fear that you are right.

246683 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Paul, 4, #834 of 1519 🔗

I suddenly feel very old at nearly 48.
I try to stay away from social media and live in the real world, “luckily” I do not have any children.
I am afraid the world that I knew is finished and I cannot and do not want to adapt to this new world emerging, a world of the 3 monkeys and social media.

One of the protest leaders in Germany said it very well last week, the people on the street are the middle aged, middle class who never in their life have been on a demo before, who go out onto the street to fight for their children and grand children, who cannot be bothered and who accept this as they do not know any different.

But our generation needs to fight, as it is people in our age group who are making these decisions…..and in my opinion got it wrong 4 years ago with the Brexit vote.

246482 ▶▶ Sara, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #835 of 1519 🔗

The last time I remember a flu that really was everywhere, was in January 2000. Those people under the age of about 32 won’t remember that life was normal at the same time as headlines on the front pages of all the newspapers about the hospitals being overwhelmed.

246650 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Sara, 1, #836 of 1519 🔗

There was a flu pandemic in 2009.

246794 ▶▶▶ dommo, replying to Sara, #837 of 1519 🔗

i had that – caught it between christmas and new year. couple of days in bed and couple on the sofa – but no effing lockdown!

246513 ▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #838 of 1519 🔗

Because social media is the new Ministry of Truth. They can make people believe anything they want.

246616 ▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 4, #839 of 1519 🔗

They have also a huge interest in promoting virtual over real human contact

246518 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Fingerache Philip., 7, #840 of 1519 🔗

Does she think people were doing zoom meetings and watching Netflix and ordering Ocado in the 50s and 60s? A world without computers is unthinkable to these people.

246586 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #841 of 1519 🔗

The past is another country.

246690 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #842 of 1519 🔗
246767 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to JohnB, #843 of 1519 🔗

BRILLIANT.

246933 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #844 of 1519 🔗

Even what I would say is ‘relatively recent past’ is like another country to anyone under a certain age – saw a lovely video on the net of two boys aged about 18 trying to work out how to use a dial-up landline phone – they could not make head nor tail of it!

246524 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #845 of 1519 🔗

My parents started university in 1968 and were completely unaware that there was a pandemic going on at the time. They only know about it from reading about it years after it happened!

246590 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #846 of 1519 🔗

Absolutely, A C , my wife and myself were 20 at the end of 1968 and we had to look it up (HKF) to find out when it happened.

246640 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #847 of 1519 🔗

Crazy! Those really were the days…

246663 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #848 of 1519 🔗

“what kind of lockdown was then” made me laugh out loud immediately.
How sad. How sad that she is so stupid to not know history, have paid any attention to what is happening now and being so brainwashed that she accepts lockdowns.

It also made me think of myself at primary school age growing up in a divided Germany (born 1972) and accepting that this was normal and had always been. My parents were keen classical music fans and we had cassette tapes aimed at children telling us about the lives of famous composers. How often did I catch myself thinking, how easy it was for a young Mozart in 1752 to travel to Dresden or Leipzig without having the hassle to cross the iron curtain.
I then slapped myself and remembered that there was no iron curtain and people were relatively free to travel in the German states.

246940 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Silke David, 2, #849 of 1519 🔗

In 1995 my mother had a university student lodger who was from the former East Germany. She had learned Russian in school and came from a coastal town. She had seen people shot while trying to escape the country by sea, attempting to swim for freedom..

246675 ▶▶ Marialta, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #850 of 1519 🔗

I don’t read her reaction like this. Your comment reminds me of a conversation I had 2 years ago with my 19yr old nephew when he gets was at university. I told him I was dubious about the benefits of using the neoliberal business model for university education. He was also incredulous and asked ‘But weren’t they always businesses? ’ Paying for his education as a customer was all he knew. Later I realised that I had expected him to be able to conceptualise delivery of an education in another form unfairly. It was my age speaking. The young woman you spoke to had never encountered a pandemic so if the current global response is lockdown then it’s understandable.

I’m starting to see that we’re in danger of seeing everything through the lens of Covid scepticism. Hardly surprising as it’s all so pervasive and worrying.

246772 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Marialta, #851 of 1519 🔗

Excellent point.

246387 Banjones, replying to Banjones, 9, #852 of 1519 🔗

I’m just watching the video of Dr Mike Yeadon speaking to Dr Fuellmich. I may have found the link here. But I just wanted to say that, although it’s quite long, it is really worth watching. It is a great relief to hear two of the top people of our countries saying what we all here think. Gives a nice warm comfortable glow of vindication!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kANkpqtWLN4

246527 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to Banjones, 1, #853 of 1519 🔗

Wow. This video is solid gold. Must watch.

246391 Mark, replying to Mark, 18, #854 of 1519 🔗

Nice depiction from the excellent InProportion2 folk :

246407 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Mark, 3, #855 of 1519 🔗

Like it. Love a good 4 box!

246415 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Mark, 2, #856 of 1519 🔗

I suspect that orange circle is correct for the Libertarian/Authoritarian axis, but I suspect it is less accurate for the Conservative/Radical axis, the pro-Lockdown people are off the scale radical.

246617 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #857 of 1519 🔗

It’s true that lockdown is inherently an off the scale radical policy, since it amounts to an experimental policy of dicing with the entirety of our economy, society and culture.

On the other hand, most of the people who support it don’t really understand that, and many are misguided “Conservative” Party loyalists, some of whom are actually conservative on most issues, as well.

246641 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 1, #858 of 1519 🔗

Indeed. A lot of the problem stems from people who are instinctively law-abiding, rule-following people. When the laws and rules are reasonable, this is a positive quality. When they are based on lies, you’re better off with people who maybe have more antisocial tendencies.

The town I live in is chock full of small-c conservative people who love following rules and hate people that don’t. Mask compliance is close to 100%. At any other time, it makes for a fairly peaceful if somewhat dull existence (until they have had a beer) but right now it’s not what is needed.

246511 ▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to Mark, 2, #859 of 1519 🔗

I would say that the graph itself is wrong, as fascism and communism are clearly on the same side of the spectrum. How can anyone claim freedom lies exactly halfway between two authoritarian systems? How can you start from communism, implement more and more freedom, and as society becomes freer it becomes… more fascist? What?

246532 ▶▶▶ Luckyharry69, replying to Cristi.Neagu, #860 of 1519 🔗

Dinesh D’Sousa explains this very well.He is of the same opinion as yourself.Communism and Fascism are one of the same essentially…hence Lenin was one of the first to congratulate Mussolini when he came to power

246648 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 1, #861 of 1519 🔗

Well on one level it’s a bit of fun that illustrates some underlying truth, so it shouldn’t be over-analysed. But to respond to your particular point, I’d say you need to be careful with the terminology, as especially the term fascism has been abused to the point of meaninglessness.

Communism is clearly correctly placed – it’s the very definition of authoritarian radicalism.

Fascism Franco-style on the other hand is the very essence of conservative authoritarianism.

Radical authoritarian movements that adopt some of the clothes of the right, and vice versa, however, are more difficult to classify. Thus there are honest disagreements about where Hitler’s and Mussolini’s regimes belong. While they can be classed as right wing in some senses, there was very little meaningfully conservative about National Socialism, and Mussolini’s government probably falls somewhere in between Hitler’s and Franco’s on this scale.

246404 Liz F, 22, #862 of 1519 🔗

Blimey. This was in the comments section of the ES following the article about the lady who has defied the lockdown and kept her gym open: “ As mentioned by another reviewer, send her to the front line without PPE, maybe it will help her to reconsider her behaviour. Although I doubt it as these people tend to have an unshakable belief in their self-righteousness.” Well this person seems to know a thing or two about self-righteousness.

246424 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 41, #863 of 1519 🔗

I am disappointed to see yet another long-drawn-out spat appear on this forum about ‘conspiracy’ versus ‘cock-up’ and people threatening to take their bat home. Whether or not you subscribe to the various explanations which people point to in order to understand what is going on, using the term ‘conspiracy theorist’ is subscribing to the lazy mainstream method of stifling dissent. If we can no-platform ‘bedwetter’, can we please do the same to ‘conspiracy theorist’?

Surely dissent is what we’re supposed to be about? Or do we really assent to the hysteria engendered by government brainwashing and the draconian suppression measures of a mostly mild virus, which are currently being replicated by most countries and states on the planet with no end in sight? After all, we are all challenging the eye-wateringly expensive programmes of testing healthy people being forced on populations going against decades of public health advice? We should keep asking, why do people need a rushed and barely-tested vaccine against a coronavirus which the UK Government fully expects to cause ‘high volumes of adverse outcomes’? Why do so many governments use the terminology of the WEF to say they want to ‘Build Back Better’? Can it be simply that they like the sound of yet another handy 3-word catch-phrase?

In a long adult life of activism against injustice, I have seen time and again movements being torn apart and rendered ineffectual by factionalism. The tired old argument that so-and-so’s theories bring us all into disrepute are playing into the hands of our opponents. Just state your own views, clearly and honestly. If we let the debate be only on ‘their’ terms, we’ve already lost it. As has been said so many times but it bears repeating, keep your eyes on the prize!

I reserve judgement on whether or not there is one agenda, one organisation or one evil genius behind all this. I would prefer to use terms like ‘concatenation of interests’, ‘non-subjective intentionality or ‘convergent opportunism’ as I think that is what is really happening. Either way, locking up a largely healthy population for 8 months – and counting – while whole economies are trashed. the NHS is finally sold-off and more people are killed by the measures looks like a plan to me! if it is about incompetence or panic, it is the most spectacular example in history! And why is there no end in sight when by all statistical records, the epidemic is over?

There can be no doubt that incompetence, group-think and self-interest infest governments and may be in play, here, However, I think it is positively perverse not to do the minimum of research online and see – in plain sight – just what the likely agendas are. The UK Government makes no secret of its use of the Behavioural Insight methods it pioneered under the Cameron government to continue to terrify, confuse and divide the UK population. This started off as the Nudge Unit. and was later privatised and sold-off to other countries, including the USA, making a healthy profit for the team at the time. They are all using the same terminology in their ‘Covid’ propaganda.

Please could we all respect each others views and concentrate on what really matters i.e. working to end the insanity of lock-down. If you’re burned out (and who isn’t?) just take a break for a few days.

I refer you to Sinead Murphy’s excellent article on the subject of conspiracies, posted on this forum in October: https://lockdownsceptics.org/conspiracy-theories/ MW

246432 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 9, #864 of 1519 🔗

One person’s conspiracy theory is another person’s hypothesis waiting to be proved or disproved.

246438 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 6, #865 of 1519 🔗

Great post. There are huge organisations, that’s a fact, but they are not monolithic. Meanwhile the long term existence of extremely bad ideas, such as communism, is also a simple fact.

246470 ▶▶ Julian, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 9, #866 of 1519 🔗

I agree we should focus on what unites us

Equally I have been heartened to see how it’s possible on social media for people to express views and disagree with each other without it descending into pointless name-calling – I think the comments section of this site is a shining example of freedom of speech in action

So while I don’t want to drive people away or waste a lot of energy, I think it’s quite legitimate to debate what people think of as the reasons behind all of this

I share your dislike for the Conspiracy Theorist term, even though I used it myself earlier. It’s generally just abuse, but it’s useful shorthand for a general line of thinking that is quite legitimate. Happy to hear suggestions for a better phrase that captures that

246597 ▶▶▶ Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, replying to Julian, 4, #867 of 1519 🔗

I’ve heard conspiracy realist and conspiracy empiricist as alternatives. I do like convergent opportunism for those who don’t like the word conspiracy. I think we can all agree that something nefarious is going on globally, we merely differ on the details — with the WEF cabal on one end and cock-ups/cowardice by the world’s politicians on the other. We are all on the same side here with respect to the what of it, even if we disagree on the why and the who (yes, they’re implicated too!) of it.

246475 ▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #868 of 1519 🔗

To be honest I swing from one to the other ,I love conspiracy theories so I’m trying not to let an interest cloud my thoughts but there are more times when I think what else can it be than I think the government’s of the world are incompetent then I look at world leaders and think hmmmmm 😂

246483 ▶▶ CGL, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 7, #869 of 1519 🔗

I used those phrases – ‘concatenation of interests’ and ‘convergent opportunism’ – that Yeadon and Delingpole came up with in that interview, on a FB discussion a few weeks ago – the lady I was talking to said I sounded ‘preposterous’.

I’m no activist – I have never been that political at all. I look at the whole spectrum of ideas on here and sometimes I am on board with certain things and sometimes not. I still want to see all of them though – it doesn’t bother or offend me that some are beyond what I would necessarily think of as rational. I have no idea what rational means any more tbh.

In discussions on here, most people are respectful and can argue their thoughts intelligently, whatever rabbit hole they happen to be excavating, or not. I tend to think that it should be a case of anything goes here, and take from it whatever you feel is right for you.

But when we are trying to win complete non-sceptics onto our side, I think it is harder to convince them, if the ‘heavy’ stuff is mentioned. They do tend to glaze over – and then they are lost, probably for ever.

246493 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to CGL, 5, #870 of 1519 🔗

That’s right. Within reason, everything should go here as it’s an open forum which promotes free speech. I can hardly see lockdown zealots bothering to look at a site called ‘Lockdown Sceptics’. . . . .MW

246718 ▶▶▶▶ Monty Bodkin, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #871 of 1519 🔗

I’ve sent LS links to a few covidians but they seem to think that even a brief look into the world of sceptics and dissenters will somehow act upon them like a gorgon’s head and impair their ability to think clearly. “If it’s not on the BBC, it’s not to be trusted,” is what many people truly believe.
I’ve also recommended LS to several people who I know are very cynical about what the mainstream media/government tell them but they don’t want to think about it too much. They are frustrated by the way restrictions have affected them but think everything will get back to normal eventually. Until then, they’ll go with the flow and just grumble a bit. I reckon this is the majority viewpoint so it’s these people we need to focus on, rather than wasting time on the committed zealots.

246509 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #872 of 1519 🔗

with Boris it’s hard to differentiate between conspiracy and cock up. The only bias to a conspiracy theory is that most govts operate in such a way to “not allow a crisis go to waste”.

246566 ▶▶ DRW, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #873 of 1519 🔗

Whatever you believe we can’t let this wedge our cause, it’s certainly not worth falling out over.

246774 ▶▶ ianric, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #874 of 1519 🔗

If those who believe in covid conspiracy theories are crackpots spouting nonsense, why do their theories about the purpose of lockdowns match exactly the effects of lockdown. David Icke has strange views but he is spot on in his theories about the purpose of lockdown. When people have a livelyhood either through a job or running a business, they are financially independant and don’t have to claim benefits from the government. Icke’s theory the purpose of lockdown is deprive people of their livelyhoods and financial independance which makes them dependant on the government. Icke feels the government will introduce a universal basic income which will be just about enough to live on. When the government controls your income and earning a living through a job or running a business is not available, the government has control over you. If you do something the government doesn’t like eg protest the government can withdraw your income. Small businesses are a particular target of lockdown because running your own successful business gives you independance in that you don’t have to claim benefits or work for someone else.

When you examine lockdowns there is a concerted effort to deprive people of their livelyhoods :-

  • Forcing businesses to close for long periods. In the first lockdown businesses had to close for three months. In lockdown 2 businesses must close for a month in England.
  • Impose regulations which make running a business difficult eg pubs have to close after 10.00 pm.
  • Frighten people there is a deadly disease out there which makes people reluctant to use businesses.
  • Restrict the services businesses can provide eg restaurants can only do takeaway.
  • Restrict who people can go out with eg rule of six.
  • Travel restrictions deprive businesses of trade eg businesses in Wales loose out if people can’t travel from England into Wales.
  • Encourage people to work from home which deprives businesses of income they receive from commuters.

We have seen a tsumanic of job losses caused by lockdowns.

If those who believe in conspiracy theories are crackpots, why do the authorities try to suppress them? Piers Corbyn has been arrested numerous times. The German doctor was arrested in London. Why do the police attack anti lockdown protests?

246834 ▶▶ wat tyler, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #875 of 1519 🔗

I am not a C T or do i think its the right way to see the situation .I personally believe to see the world in that way is completely disempowering and involves a fatalistic trapped approach ,where you see every action as preplanned and no chance of us resolving it by our own human agency . Also i think even if i did believe it’s all a master plan and a hidden hand i would keep those arguments quiet as i think it will most certainly put most people off and i want the majority to come over to our side ,so tactically i would keep it all under wraps . At the end of the day i am not interested in wasting my time arguing with others and as long as they are against lockdown i see them as comrades . I am involved with others against lockdown and i can say my view is in the minority ,this is not a problem as long as they don’t try to force their views on me and when they try which of course happens they get told for the sake of unity to keep it to themselves. I can see it as a problem if people keep bringing it up but the only way forward is to keep our own views of how all this happened as secondary to liberating ourselves from the lockdown .

246426 AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 36, #876 of 1519 🔗

Hello fellow amazing Lockdown Sceptics.

Like many of you, it’s felt like I’ve been on a crazy mad rollercoaster since March. Some days I feel positive that things are going in the right direction, and other days are just dark.

There’s one little story that has given me hope this week that I’d like to share.

Our daughter is in the final year of school and applying to Unis. The first place that she’s had an offer from is Manchester. When I asked her last night where she was favouring out of the five she’s applied to, she said ‘well I’m going to decline the Manchester offer after the way they treated students and put that fence up’.

This made me smile. Every action, has a reaction. Regardless of how much we’re told that the ‘fight against Covid’ is zero sum game, there WILL BE a reaction.

Hang in there guys. The truth will out.

246450 ▶▶ DRW, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 15, #877 of 1519 🔗

As a final year student I’d recommend doing OU. Campus universities are worthless Covidian churches deserving of nothing. It’s not even a secret at mine, half the campus is a fully NHS signaged site probably all readied for the Great Needlefest.

246481 ▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to DRW, 6, #878 of 1519 🔗

Thank you for the insight. I will pass it on. Nothing motivates me more to fight this nonsense than what its doing to your generation and your future opportunities. Hang in there, history shows that humanity rights itself but I suspect it’s going to take some time on this occasion!

246547 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 2, #879 of 1519 🔗

Thanks, the insane zealotry and general university situation makes me the most angry. I hope your daughter can get to go in saner, sensible times.

246621 ▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, #880 of 1519 🔗

Hmmm my friend did OU history and the themes were slavery slavery slavery

and she also did music … ditto

only one type of slavery, and nothing about the abolition of the transatlantic slave trade either.

Probably is the best, unless she can find a subject-specific course still run by genuine enthusiasts.

246508 ▶▶ annie, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 5, #881 of 1519 🔗

Don’t send your daughter to a concentration camp, Mr A N Other!

246539 ▶▶ GorbalsGirl, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 12, #882 of 1519 🔗

While you’re shopping around – please note that recently a lot of UK universities have also been removing women’s single sex toilets on campus, and converting them into trendy ‘gender neutral’ bogs where men can jack off listening to women pee. My friends who lecture at Glasgow uni tell me there are hardly any single-sex women’s toilets around their lecture theatres any more, and the ones that still exist have massive queues because women don’t want to use the manky mixed sex loos.

You and your daughter might want to investigate each university’s levels of contempt for women, as well as how happy they are to imprison their students.

247018 ▶▶▶ Borisbullshit, replying to GorbalsGirl, 1, #883 of 1519 🔗

I must be getting old….why on earth would someone want to listen to someone pee! Am I missing something?

246427 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 7, #884 of 1519 🔗

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The 17th-century inn, just outside Taunton, is available as a holiday rental. There are five bedrooms in an annexe, and you can celebrate Christmas in the pub where you can pull pints (draught beer is available but you provide other drinks), play darts and pub games, and cook lunch in the professional kitchen. £2,023 for four nights from 23 December for six.
Free cancellation until 24 hours prior to check-in. hostunusual.com

246592 ▶▶ Monty Bodkin, replying to Sarigan, #885 of 1519 🔗

Good idea. Puzzled and amused by the £23 appended to the two thousand though.

246428 John Stone, replying to John Stone, 2, #886 of 1519 🔗

I think the main brilliance of Cummings if any was the quality that Matthew Parris once attributed to Thatcher of “nerve”. Actually, the calls may often have been quite obvious most particularly the understanding of the Boris camp that you could not cut a deal unless you could walk away from it. The real mystery was why so many others were not prepared to say this. I found his demeanour irritating as if he wanted to make people feel guilty about him all the time, although no one should have had any reason to feel guilty about him, there was always this accusing look. The agony in the garden press conference was perhaps a case in point. Exiting, hunched miserably over a cardboard also seemed typical, even predictable – like some humiliated character in Shakespeare -although I am writing about someone I don’t really understand.

246497 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to John Stone, 2, #887 of 1519 🔗

Do people really still leave offices with their belongings in a cardboard box? Looks like a set up/photo op to me. Surely someone like Cummings could have a lackey do it while he exits through the back door.

246545 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #888 of 1519 🔗

It’s deliberate – to evoke the Lehman moment in the Financial Crisis.

246433 NickR, 3, #889 of 1519 🔗

Does Cummings leaving mean BJ us about to extend the ‘transition’ period?

246434 Salopian, replying to Salopian, 28, #890 of 1519 🔗

Police in massive force at the station and in every side street around the Civic Hall in Wolverhampton today.Stopping anyone in the street.very intimidating atmosphere and clearly a major police operation.

Some very brave protesters here indeed prepare to stand up .
Expect many arrests.
What are the government afraid of?

246443 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Salopian, 29, #891 of 1519 🔗

The truth.

246506 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #892 of 1519 🔗

You took the words off my very fingertip!

246437 Banjones, 12, #893 of 1519 🔗

In the Yeadon/Fuellmich video (my Theme For Today!) Dr F draws a comparison between the erection of the Berlin Wall and the prevention BY LAW of outbound travel from the UK. As he said, they imprisoned their own citizens too.
Plus ca change……

246444 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 9, #894 of 1519 🔗

Corbyn arrested in Bristol. Good crowd, good speech.
A lot of police!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyNBinUUTOE

Apparently police have kettled protesters in Liverpool ….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyNBinUUTOE

246446 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #895 of 1519 🔗

Same link twice – I’ve been trying and failing to find any Liverpool footage – is there any?

246453 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to leggy, #896 of 1519 🔗

Gaven’t found any. Just streaming comments in the Standup feed.

246454 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #897 of 1519 🔗

Thanks for the links. Just madness.

246498 ▶▶▶ Bill h, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 5, #898 of 1519 🔗

Was on live earlier.

Corbyn arrested by snatch squad. Did not appear to be hurt. Several other arrests. Crowds definitely over 1000.

246505 ▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Bill h, 2, #899 of 1519 🔗

Yet the local Gazette reporting 200 protesters. Oh, and a policeman assaulted apparently.

246562 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to leggy, 3, #900 of 1519 🔗

I saw a lot more than 200!

246914 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, #901 of 1519 🔗

The Grad reports 400. Better than ignoring it I guess:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/14/bristol-police-arrest-14-people-at-anti-lockdown-protest

One attendee was health worker Louise Hampton, who made headlines in August after she posted a video in which she appeared to suggest the coronavirus pandemic did not exist.

Somewhat egregious reporting if I remember her video correctly!

246551 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #902 of 1519 🔗

Bristol must be a great place to live; no crime. A crime-free city, where police are so underworked they have to mob-handedly target peaceful demonstrators, just for something to alleviate the boredom.

246715 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #903 of 1519 🔗

i went for a while to the bristol protest – was easily about a 1000 people there – and marched around the city in the rain – with quite a few cars beeping support going by! Huge numbers of police and targeted some to arrest including piers corbyn. Incredible when have a real crime none to be found but hey when a peaceful march to support our rights tthey come out the woodwork!!
Felt I had to get out from behind the keyboard and support since it was local. A really good atmosphere but shame it was raining…

246447 Cecil B, 1, #904 of 1519 🔗

Any video from Wolverhampton or any of the other demos?

246468 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Janice21, 10, #906 of 1519 🔗

Exactly. And, as this chap states, there are many up-front costs that businesses incur. It’s not just a case of turning the sign round to ‘Open’. This has been the inherent dishonesty in saying “press pause on the economy”. You don’t cease to incur costs just because you are closed.

246478 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Janice21, 7, #907 of 1519 🔗

I really think we can make a statement by sending any bill relating to Covid to #10. Although of course they screen the Mail off site it’s still powerful if they start getting 10 million credit card bills a month.

246486 ▶▶ steph, replying to Janice21, 6, #908 of 1519 🔗

They should include all the costs incurred of being “Covid secure”. All businesses put in those stupid distance markers, Perspex screens, one way arrows etc, only to be closed down again less than 4 month later. My hairdresser is on a Faceache group for hairdressers, not a one had a contact or had to isolate but somehow they are now plague spreaders.

246607 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to steph, 1, #909 of 1519 🔗

and clubs – Brownies and Cubs anyone?

246452 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 5, #911 of 1519 🔗

Ahh and none in 2020

246467 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Victoria, 1, #912 of 1519 🔗

Miracle! We saved the NHS!!

246459 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #913 of 1519 🔗

Same during the election last year.

246494 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 8, #914 of 1519 🔗

A quick google shows the NHS to have been in this situation several years in the last decade or two – and not just in winter either. Quite why no one cared back then is beyond me. If they can spaff 40 million up the wall just to test healthy people, and furlough large numbers of workers for a year or more, then why not invest in the health service in previous years when it evidently cannot cope with normal daily pressure? Is this paving the way for lockdowns every winter to save the NHS? Why doesn’t it need to be saved from flu every winter?

Who knows, quite a few lives might have been saved in the process too.

246502 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to A. Contrarian, 6, #915 of 1519 🔗

In 2016 Exercise Cygnus concluded that in the event of a pandemic, the NHS would be overwhelmed. The government decided not to increase NHS capacity. Instead, it decided to draft what in March became the Coronavirus Act 2020, which gives the government the authority to rule by ministerial decree.

246553 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Steve Hayes, 5, #916 of 1519 🔗

Really? The Coronavirus Act has been around in some form since 2016?

Also why do they need a no doubt costly exercise to tell them that the NHS would be overwhelmed in a pandemic when it is already overwhelmed WITHOUT a pandemic…

246583 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #917 of 1519 🔗

Jeremy Hunt was Secretary of Health at the time. He has asserted these facts publicly. Apparently, he is unaware of how bad they make him and the government look.

246681 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jo Dominich -, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #918 of 1519 🔗

It’s not overwhelmed but extremely badly managed. The grab the public debate by always axing frontline services. You never here of them axing managers.

246598 ▶▶▶ Marialta, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #919 of 1519 🔗

Several times images of headlines going back to 2014 have been posted on here. They all said that in winter ‘NHS nearly overwhelmed’. Bed occupancy always goes up, it IS always portrayed as needing saving. This is a perennial national story – it’s irrational how we talk about and behave towards it because it is a sacred cow.
Hymns are sung to it, it acts as a glue to stick our secular society together. Look how far sick people have been prepared to go to ‘save the NHS’ even dying at home for it during this Covid scare.

246676 ▶▶▶ Jo Dominich -, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #920 of 1519 🔗

The NHS staffs billions of money every year. The know about winter pressures every year yet fail to plan for it every year. You could give them another 40bn and they wouldn’t spend it on frontline medical services they’d create 20 tiers of management to manage it.

246854 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jo Dominich -, #921 of 1519 🔗

NHS leaders are urging Rishi Sunak to fulfil his pledge to give the service “whatever it needs” to respond to the coronavirus crisis, by boosting its budget by £4bn next year.

NHS services need the money to tackle the huge backlog of patients waiting for surgery and the sharp increase in people needing mental health care as a direct result of the pandemic.

Patients will suffer if the money for those problems does not arrive, they claim.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/nov/13/nhs-needs-extra-4bn-next-year-because-of-covid-rishi-sunak-told

246926 ▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Cheezilla, #922 of 1519 🔗

Shame they didn’t do this years ago, then we wouldn’t have a coronavirus hospital “crisis” (manufactured or not) or a huge backlog of patients waiting for surgery or needing mental health care.

246510 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 11, #923 of 1519 🔗

The fact that the NHS can or cannot cope is never a justification for locking up healthy people.I don’t think the government even have the power under the 1984 act they are using.

246623 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 5, #924 of 1519 🔗

Regarding the 1984 Act, Lord Sumption agrees with you.

246455 Banjones, replying to Banjones, 13, #925 of 1519 🔗

Back to my ‘Theme Of The Day’ – Dr Fuellmich has just made the point that there is no scientific evidence of asymptomatic spreading of the virus anywhere in the world. If this were to be accepted ( hollow laugh ) then it would mean that mass testing would be completely pointless.

246469 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Banjones, 13, #926 of 1519 🔗

The World Health Organisation said that asymptomatic transmission is “very rare” and admitted that they did not know of a single confirmed case.

246541 ▶▶▶ Marialta, replying to Steve Hayes, #927 of 1519 🔗

Tom Chivers who writes for Unherd and is on a vaccine trial himself (Oxford-AstraZeneca) asserts in his latest article ‘Yes, the vaccine is really on its way” that ‘ ….asymptomatic people can spread the disease’?
I’m looking for an answer yes or no.

246548 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #928 of 1519 🔗

That’s as rare as hen’s teeth!

246556 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Cheezilla, 1, #929 of 1519 🔗

And Rocking horse s××t.

246471 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Banjones, 9, #930 of 1519 🔗

Just watched that bit – but Claire Craig says that there are papers supporting asymptomatic spread, they just all happen to be Chinese. She speculates about whether this might originally been have been published for the purpose of internal propaganda.

246517 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Charlie Blue, #931 of 1519 🔗

How come the World Health Organisation did not know about these Chinese papers? Did she say she had read them?

246526 ▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #932 of 1519 🔗

She has done a literature review, so I imagine she has read them in order to know that they claimed to have evidence of asymptomatic spread. The other papers she looked at from around the world did not find any such evidence, she reports. Why would we assume that the WHO didn’t know about them?

246550 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Charlie Blue, #933 of 1519 🔗

Because as I mentioned earlier in the thread, the World Health Organisation said that asymptomatic transmission is “very rare” and they added that they did not know of a single confirmed case.

246564 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #934 of 1519 🔗

The lady who said that, Van Kerkoven or something. She was told to retract it very quickly. She’s now looking into a supposed Covid outbreak in Siberia.

246577 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #935 of 1519 🔗

The backtracking had nothing to do with evidence.

246565 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #936 of 1519 🔗

Sorry, yes, I should have completed my thought in my post. I do not believe that knowing something or not knowing something has very much bearing at all on the statements that WHO make – they cherry pick to suit the agenda in the moment. Just like most of the main players in this debacle.

246920 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Banjones, #937 of 1519 🔗

Ditto masks

246456 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 9, #938 of 1519 🔗

This must be the original article referred to in several press notices the other day about T cells immunity

 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.11.09.20228023v1.full.pdf
Diagnosis and Tracking of Past SARS-CoV-2 Infection in a Large Study of Vo’, Italy Through TCell Receptor Sequencing “Blood samples taken 60 days after PCR diagnosis demonstrated 97% (68/70) of the latter subjects had a positive T-cell test result, higher than an antibody serology assay (77%; 54/70 of subjects) performed on the same samples. The depth and breadth of the T-cell response was associated with disease severity, with symptomatic and hospitalized COVID-19 cases having significantly higher response than asymptomatic cases.”

246462 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #939 of 1519 🔗

This important message also in the article
“Previous experiences with the related Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS) and SARS-CoV-1 infections demonstrated that coronavirus-specific T cells have long term persistence and contribute to protection even in individuals without seroconversion (Channappanavar 2014, Zhao 2017). Recent evidence suggests that a similar pattern is present during SARS-CoV-2 infection (Gallais 2020, Thieme 2020).”

246457 Cheezilla, 4, #940 of 1519 🔗

Carl Vernon talking a lot of sense live:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVoMzN-E0j8

246458 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 25, #941 of 1519 🔗

Passenger fined £1,700 for continually refusing to wear a face nappy on buses !!, and still there are members of my own family who insist that we are not living in a police state.

246465 ▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to Fingerache Philip., 6, #942 of 1519 🔗

Did they not say they were exempt? You don’t have to provide any evidence to back up if you say you are exempt.

246474 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Anothersceptic2, #943 of 1519 🔗

As reply to S H.

246466 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #944 of 1519 🔗

Why didn’t they say: “I’m exempt”?

246472 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #945 of 1519 🔗

I wondered that.

246504 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Fingerache Philip., 8, #946 of 1519 🔗

On principle?
I would gladly help pay the fine, if it ever is paid.
Fined for acting on principle.
Fined for fsiling to observe an absurd,tyrannical, useless rule.

246544 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, 2, #947 of 1519 🔗

Principle yes.
But, according to the guidelines, everyone can be exempt on principle.

246642 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #948 of 1519 🔗

“I have a condition that prevents me from wearing a face covering: intelligence.”

246653 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mabel Cow, 1, #949 of 1519 🔗

Exactly!

246514 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #950 of 1519 🔗

The imposition of a fine before conviction is unlawful. Bill of Rights 1689.

246581 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Steve Hayes, #951 of 1519 🔗

Tell it to all the victims of speeding and parking tickets. Might be wrong, but it’s been normal, for the convenience of government. for decades now.

246596 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Mark, 2, #952 of 1519 🔗

It is not only wrong, it is illegal. The Bill of Rights has never been repealed; neither is it a dead letter. Only last year, the Supreme Court cited it in its judgement on the prorogation of parliament issue.

246603 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #953 of 1519 🔗

Haha – so they did – good one

246780 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Steve Hayes, #954 of 1519 🔗

Since the courts are upholding them regularly (I mean speeding and parking tickets, not necessarily coronapanic ones – there are real question marks over whether any of those will be upheld), the issue of legality is rather moot until you can get a case contesting one to the Supreme Court and overturn it on that basis.

246559 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #955 of 1519 🔗

There’s been several of these stories and I think most are fake news to keep people complying.

246572 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to DRW, 1, #956 of 1519 🔗

Yes, sounds like par for the course.

246582 ▶▶ cloud6, replying to Fingerache Philip., #957 of 1519 🔗

It would be interesting to test these fines out in court two ways, refuse to pay (if loads of people do it then it will screw up the system), test the fine in court (your right) but make sure the charge is 100% accurate, if it is not it will be thrown out.

Had an experience of this with a motoring offence (not guilty), when it got to the court it was thrown out because of inaccuracies.

Out of interest the police federation says……

” 89 fines were issued between 15 June and 21 September for breaches of the Face Coverings Regulations across England and Wales. “

246599 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #958 of 1519 🔗

Please may I have a link? My friend is intending to refuse a fine for walking along the road, and needs to contact others also refusing fines. One strong and courageous person.

246605 ▶▶▶ cloud6, replying to Rosie, #959 of 1519 🔗

Seriously? you can’t be

246755 ▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to cloud6, 1, #960 of 1519 🔗

why not? Standing up for freedom and whats right. Do you think he should comply? Is that not collaboration??

A friend, not me, but I’m trying to rally support.

246764 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Rosie, #961 of 1519 🔗

Sorry, can’t help, but I refer you to Basileus’s reply.

246479 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #963 of 1519 🔗

Found Liverpool stream:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wQld_hd0FA

Police have fragmented them into groups.

246522 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #964 of 1519 🔗

Less than a minute in and police brutality occurring. No surprise sadly.

246484 Darryl, replying to Darryl, 16, #965 of 1519 🔗

I would say I am amazed that van loads of Met police were searching for Piers Corbyn yesterday near Hyde Park, but nothing surprises me now.

https://brandnewtube.com/watch/piers-corbyn-of-ourmovement-stopnewnormal-reports-on-empty-military-covid-testing-centres_zuIcCyAoXV6C98w.html

Piers Corbyn of #OurMovement #StopNewNormal reports on empty military covid testing centres
The corrupt media and politicians are so desperate to stop their lies being exposed. Police state Britain.

246499 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Darryl, 8, #966 of 1519 🔗

That’s shocking!
They really are scared of him!

246485 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 3, #967 of 1519 🔗

I know they are too stupid to think of this for themselves, what if Piers Corbyn dies in custody?.

246489 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Cecil B, 2, #968 of 1519 🔗

blame it on covid

246490 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Cecil B, 5, #969 of 1519 🔗

They’ll say it’s a covid death.

246491 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Cecil B, 6, #970 of 1519 🔗

He is due to attend an event in Newport tomorrow so I think it is safe to say he will probably be kept in custody for close to 24 hours.

246594 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Cecil B, 1, #971 of 1519 🔗

Have they locked him up again?

Time for some vigils outside ?

246487 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 3, #972 of 1519 🔗

Finding the deaths attributable to the lockdown is not simple – but the following is one way of doing it.

The NHS uses quality adjusted life years (QALYs) to see if an intervention is worth undertaking. In general an intervention that costs less than £20k per QALY saved is considered cost effective.

Then if the NHS finds an extra 20k, it can save another QALY. If it loses 20k it can save 1 less QALY

Lockdown may cost 10% of UK economy (say). That’s £49 billion. Although we know the PSBR jumped £100bn in quarter 3. Lets say it costs 100billion – that’s 5 million QALYs.

246535 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to steve_w, 1, #973 of 1519 🔗

Can you point me in the direction of methodology for assessing spending money on treatments like vaccines. NICE would have to be really stretching the truth to justify the spend.

246542 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #975 of 1519 🔗

The NICE formula for an NHS treatment is that it must cost less than £20 000 per QLAY, which is the equivalent of a year of life in perfect health. https://www.nice.org.uk/Media/Default/guidance/LGB10-Briefing-20150126.pdf

246516 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to arfurmo, 4, #977 of 1519 🔗

Fuck me. Laughable. So wear a mask or carry a card in your pocket? Errrr… Card please

246554 ▶▶▶ steph, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 5, #978 of 1519 🔗

Neither. The law requires neither. Just say “I’m exempt” and refuse to accept any fine.

246937 ▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #979 of 1519 🔗

I’ve noticed some places that say ‘no admittance without mask or valid exemption’ but I think there’s a reluctance by some to do this, because they don’t want to encourage people to realise they can claim exemption. Hence the more common ‘no mask no entry’ signs, which are arguably illegal under the DDA.

246523 ▶▶ calchas, replying to arfurmo, 8, #980 of 1519 🔗

Somehow, I don’t think a willingness to question official narratives ranks near the top of ‘psychological characteristics of police officers’, do you?

246529 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to arfurmo, 6, #981 of 1519 🔗

Goons, must be lack of oxygen because they talk shit. I think the plan is to get 100% compliance from everyone!! Just to prove they have controlled the population

246531 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to arfurmo, 5, #982 of 1519 🔗

Not real police, British Transport Police

If you want to defund them don’t use the railways

246536 ▶▶ leggy, replying to arfurmo, 7, #983 of 1519 🔗

Can’t hear a word they’re saying, just some muffled noises.

246560 ▶▶ Anothersceptic2, replying to arfurmo, 2, #984 of 1519 🔗

It’s literally a test, they even say in their own video there that basically anyone can just self exempt themselves!

246634 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to arfurmo, 3, #985 of 1519 🔗

“Fines issued under Coronavirus legislation are processed by ACRO (Criminal Records Office) on behalf of police forces in England and Wales. The funds from these payments will be distributed to local authorities in line with the legislation.”

Speed cameras 2.0.

246814 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to arfurmo, #986 of 1519 🔗

Good news is it was posted 5 hours ago, 100 views, no likes, 2 dislikes.

246512 captainbeefheart, replying to captainbeefheart, 42, #987 of 1519 🔗

Wondering what to buy the kids this Christmas?

Why not try “Monopoly: Lockdown Edition”?

The chance cards are:

  • Go to jail
  • You are fined 400 Citizen Credits for visiting your Mother
  • You are fined 400 Credits for opening your shop

The community chest cards are:

  • Your local council has gone bankrupt. Pay 4000 Citizen Credits to the WEF to get them to take over running all of your local services
  • Pay an extra 8000 Citizen Credits to “Save our NHS”
  • Go to jail

comment image

246593 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to captainbeefheart, 2, #988 of 1519 🔗

Good, but the images need to feature Patel, Hanc.ock, Johnson and the rest of them.

I’d like to design the Community Chest cards …

246606 ▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Rosie, 2, #989 of 1519 🔗

Thanks for the tips…

I forgot masks on the coppers too – people might also complain if this is released as a real thing because the police are not 2 meters apart.

I suppose if it was about 20 square meters it would work.

(I should have put “Not to actual scale” on the image…)

246638 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to captainbeefheart, 7, #990 of 1519 🔗

“You came second in an online beauty contest. Collect one food parcel”.

246533 BeBopRockSteady, 3, #991 of 1519 🔗

https://youtu.be/cJcueCMIO5o

WEF & the Communist Takeover by Anomoly

246537 peyrole, replying to peyrole, 9, #992 of 1519 🔗

Just spotted this on ZH.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/government-advisers-suggest-giving-covid-free-brits-permission-wristbands
For all those saying all we want is an end to lockdowns, well here is a solution. I suggest that lockdowns are a symptom , they are not the cause of our worries. We could all ‘conform’ and a lot of ‘restrictions’ would seem to go away. Unfortunately it would be at the cost of our freedom as sentient humans.

246543 ▶▶ leggy, replying to peyrole, 11, #993 of 1519 🔗

To anyone with half a brain it’s clear that a negative test for an endemic communicable disease is worthless. You could be infected with minutes of undergoing a test. Or do your wristbands self destruct after a few days?

246570 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to leggy, 5, #994 of 1519 🔗

Yes, the wristband is bollocks, but some sort of app linked to daily testing? It would require a massive expansion of the already intrusive State surveillance, but the sheeple would be gagging for it.

246578 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Tenchy, 3, #995 of 1519 🔗

It’s already being rolled out for international travel. The “health” aspect is just the facade.

246573 ▶▶ Pancho the Grey, replying to peyrole, 5, #996 of 1519 🔗

A good opportunity for someone to knock out counterfeits.

246613 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Pancho the Grey, #997 of 1519 🔗

Which is why there will be some inbuilt technology.

246629 ▶▶▶▶ BJJ, replying to leggy, 4, #998 of 1519 🔗

As they used to say when Blair tried the biometric ID Cards. Impossible to fake except if you are a professional criminal.

246540 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 17, #999 of 1519 🔗

Bl**dy vets have all bl**dy given up again. Worse than the first lockdown! My 4-month-old puppy is ejecting brown liquid and blood from her rear end in impressive quantities and I could only find one vet within a 10-mile radius that could actually be bothered to be open. All others closed “due to Covid”!

246546 ▶▶ steph, replying to A. Contrarian, 7, #1000 of 1519 🔗

I’m guessing none of the others will get your custom when they do open again. Hope she gets better soon. Did she scavenge something?

246624 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to steph, 1, #1001 of 1519 🔗

She’ll eat anything, I caught her licking up spilt coffee yesterday and we think she ate some cat litter last night, so it’s probably something she’s eaten but the blood did make me panic. For now we just need to keep an eye on her for dehydration etc so hopefully it will settle.

246649 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1002 of 1519 🔗

All good wishes to you and your naughty puppy. Do keep us posted.

246666 ▶▶▶▶ steph, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1003 of 1519 🔗

Oh dear. We used to have a Labrador who needed to be on constant watch for the rubbish he’d eat. He got over a number of “episodes” sometimes with a probiotic gel that really seemed to work. He made it to a very old age so no permanent harm done

246742 ▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to steph, #1004 of 1519 🔗

Yes, it was another £80 at the vet today for some similar gel, some disgusting looking food and a 30-minute wait in the car park.

246771 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to steph, 1, #1005 of 1519 🔗

My dog once swallowed a sock. Regurgitated it three days later.
Has also choked trying to swallow a large dead dogfish ( my OH yanked it out of his throat at the last moment) and once ate a plastic bag full of fishing bait, which cost us £7 in hush money to a furious fisherman. Current favourite: holly berries squashed flat by passing cars.
Why I pay a fortune for his regular meals of best quality dog food, I really don’t know.

246552 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1006 of 1519 🔗

No problem in my locality, as veterinary service is more or less normal, they just don’t let you in their premises. My dog had a major operation last Tuesday and is doing very well.

246625 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Rowan, 1, #1007 of 1519 🔗

They saw fit to take the risk of letting me in to pay, but otherwise consigned to the car park.

246555 ▶▶ DRW, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #1008 of 1519 🔗

Sorry to hear that, imagine trying to sort that out over the phone. No better than GPs relishing the excuse to sit at home on full pay. Hope your puppy gets well soon.

246561 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to DRW, 2, #1009 of 1519 🔗

Veterinary practices are self employed and vets need to work to earn their usually generous crust.

246563 ▶▶ Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #1010 of 1519 🔗

I hope your puppy gets well soon and I’m equally frustrated by the vets here. Most will not let pet owners inside the premises but I was able to find a vet that is operating as normally as possible and who will respect my mask exemption. We’re not on lockdown (yet) so the vets are working, sort of, because they won’t get paid if they don’t. I’m glad you found one as bloody stools in dogs is very scary. Let us know how she’s doing.

246628 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, 1, #1011 of 1519 🔗

First lockdown was closed doors, over the summer they would let you in with a mask (no mask = no entry, pet taken in without you), now it’s back to car park privileges only…

246631 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to chaos, 1, #1013 of 1519 🔗

Thanks… but it was vast quantities of diarrhoea including drops of blood so I think this is unlikely!

246558 NickR, replying to NickR, 14, #1014 of 1519 🔗

Fascinating episode of Triggernometry with Prof Bhakdri. He says why would you want a vaccine when 80% – 90% of people are immune.
Also, how can it be proved that it reduces fatalities of people under 70 when effectively no under 70s die. No reduction can statistically be proved.

246587 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to NickR, 8, #1015 of 1519 🔗

Sadly that kind of logic doesn’t seem to work on the general population anymore. The brainwashing seems to have gone too far. The establishment clearly wants annual vaccinations and digital health passports for all adults and isn’t going to stop unless there is very significant fightback.

246568 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #1016 of 1519 🔗

Re: The Gestapo, sorry the police; I well remember years ago when the mortgage interest rate would increase more than once in a month, our next door neighbour who was a policeman said: “it doesn’t matter how high the interest rate rises, our salary increases to pay for it”

246836 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Fingerache Philip., -1, #1017 of 1519 🔗

I have said since a while, that this is really the final showdown between all the public sector employees and the rest of us.
Like it or not, the private sector itself and the public sector savings instituted did far too well macroeconomically over the last 2 decades.
In light of the still too enormous future public sector liabilities, they could see what’s coming their way over the next decades if nothing changed.
Unless they impoverished the private sector first, increasing their own relative share and absolute importance thereby.
Before eventually everything will go pear shaped, with them being the poorest again for a generation, like they were in Germany from
1945-1975.
But they couldn’t and can’t see the latter, yet.

246574 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 8, #1018 of 1519 🔗

In 2011 these Dutch doctors criticized the WHO/Big Phrma hysteric reaction to avian flu and swine flu 2009.This article in 2011 says it all. Why didn’t we follow this?

 https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/89/7/11-089086/en/?fbclid=IwAR1oVFhP1sdDQnrP6mUH5fFWMTNUHBRqtEi8NHOaG6AbyrQHGy4-xQ4uQyQ
Health is more than influenza “Worst-case thinking replaced balanced risk assessment. Worst-case thinking is motivated by the belief that the danger we face is so overwhelmingly catastrophic that we must act immediately. Rather than wait for information, we need a pre-emptive strike. “Scientific advice on resource allocation is best handled by generalists with a comprehensive view on health “ Disease experts wish to capture public attention and sway resource allocation decisions in favour of the disease of their interest. We referred previously to the principles of guidance on health by the British National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE), 2 cited as “We make independent decisions in an open, transparent way, based on the best available evidence and including input from experts and interested parties.” 8 Support from disease experts is crucial in delivering opinion, scholarly advice and evidence to a team of independent general scientists. But this team should independently propose decisions to policy-makers and be held accountable for them.”

246589 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to swedenborg, 4, #1019 of 1519 🔗

This goes to the heart of the Scamdemic/Plandemic argument. The same characters have tried it many times before, and, for example, Ferguson got away with massive destruction via the foot&mouth scandal.

As soon as I started hearing rumours of ‘corona virus’ my friends and I said to one another, What is it this time? But this time they pulled it off.

Once again listen to Reiner Fuellmich explaining it in calm analytical detail:

https://soundcloud.com/ulf-bittner/dr-reiner-fuellmich-about-crimes-against-humanity-and-corona-fraud-2020-10-20 from about a month ago with Swedish interviewer.

https://youtu.be/XQYzb5_kax8 from 3 days ago, Dutch interviewer

246602 ColoradoGirl, replying to ColoradoGirl, 10, #1020 of 1519 🔗

Colorado’s governor is losing it. From the Colorado Springs Gazette:

Another 6,439 Coloradans were diagnosed with COVID-19 — nearly double Monday’s daily total, Colorado Gov. Jared Polis announced Friday, warning state residents who continue to ignore the virus’s threat that they were playing Russian roulette with their own lives and the lives of others.

“You wouldn’t do it with a gun, and you shouldn’t do it with the virus,” he said, adding that one in 20 individuals who contract the virus will die.

He likened meeting with family members outside of one’s household for the holidays, without first quarantining for two weeks, to holding “a loaded pistol to grandma’s head.”

One out of 20? Can that be right? I am so through with the over the top rhetoric!

246610 ▶▶ Julian, replying to ColoradoGirl, 4, #1021 of 1519 🔗

Estimates of the fatality rate vary but even the most pessimistic tend to be around the 1% mark rather than 5. The WHO recently estimated the numbers who have been truly infected and based on that the IFR would be I think something like 0.1%. I think the CDC in the US think it may be around 0.3%. For people over 80 with other health conditions it might be 5% or worse, meaning that for most healthy people it is way lower

Move to South Dakota?

246618 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Julian, 3, #1022 of 1519 🔗

Move to South Dakota?

Impeach/remove/prosecute the governor ?

246728 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to JohnB, 1, #1023 of 1519 🔗

Yes very true the citizens of Colorado deserve better

246808 ▶▶▶ ColoradoGirl, replying to Julian, #1024 of 1519 🔗

Thank you all for your encouraging replies. Every day I read things in the paper and think, “That can’t be right.” It boggles my mind that the governor lies blatantly and is never challenged by the press.

246611 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to ColoradoGirl, 6, #1025 of 1519 🔗

Not right. He’s a lying piece of shit.

246614 ▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to ColoradoGirl, 3, #1026 of 1519 🔗

Ioannidis reckons the infection fatality ratio is 1 in 434 across all ages (0.23%), or 1 in 2,000 for under 70s (0.05%).

246615 ▶▶ steph, replying to ColoradoGirl, 4, #1027 of 1519 🔗

It’s nonsense on stilts of course. However people in positions of authority are getting away with monstrous lies all over the western world.

246619 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to ColoradoGirl, 3, #1028 of 1519 🔗

An infection fatality rate of five percent. No one can be that ignorant.

246883 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Steve Hayes, #1029 of 1519 🔗

Is Pantsdown doing America now?

246620 ▶▶ leggy, replying to ColoradoGirl, 3, #1030 of 1519 🔗

Errant nonsense. They should be removed from office for dereliction of duty.

246630 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to ColoradoGirl, #1031 of 1519 🔗

It hovers around 1% of official cases. But many many won’t be tested and we can assume magnitudes more will be PCR + if you tested them at any time. 1 in 20 is just lies.

246632 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to ColoradoGirl, 3, #1032 of 1519 🔗

Bringing children into this world is playing russian roulette with their lives.

246644 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nobody2020, 6, #1033 of 1519 🔗

Worse than that. Bring children into this world and they will eventually die. You murderer, you!

246677 ▶▶ jb12, replying to ColoradoGirl, 1, #1034 of 1519 🔗

One in 20 old, sick people, yeah.

246810 ▶▶ NickR, replying to ColoradoGirl, 1, #1035 of 1519 🔗

This is the government data for deaths by age & with/without pre-existing condition. If you divide the population of each age range by the deaths within the various age categories you can see the chance that someone might have died of the illness. It isn’t very likely.

246838 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to ColoradoGirl, #1036 of 1519 🔗

14.3 out of every 100,000 deaths in Colorado are from firearms so tbf its not that different…

246609 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 39, #1037 of 1519 🔗

Lock down—-what lock down?

Walking around my West Yorkshire town this afternoon you would be hard put to guess there was anything like a lock down in operation. Town was busy. Greggs was doing a roaring trade, chippys had queues outside and everywhere there was hustle and bustle.
I made a point of observing the local shops and trades people and it is so very gratifying how shops that are not strictly ‘essential’ are getting round the absurd rules that could force them out of business. Two wonderful examples of shops that are ‘closed’ but are still ‘open’ deserve a mention.

A lovely corner bookshop ran by a delightful lady is closed. However, she has jam packed her windows with books and has a notice on her door that says ‘if you see anything you want just knock and I’ll pass it to you’. Also, ‘I can order any book you want and you can collect it here’. And sure enough whilst the shop is ‘closed’ she is highly visible inside preparing orders and there were dozens of carrier bags around just waiting for collection.
I knocked and enquired about a book (and ordered) and asked her how she was doing. ‘Really well, I’m so pleased, people are so supportive’. I said that I was loathe to order from Amazon and that she could count on my custom and in return for this I received a smile from her un masked face that could have melted a polar ice cap.

Not far from the book shop is a sort of junk/antique shop. Again, closed but with his door displaying a notice saying ‘I am always here–if you want anything just knock’ and his goods were moved so that viewing is much easier from outside.

I’ve never worn a mask around my town or in any of the shops I visit and I’ve never been challenged by customers or shop staff. In fact the only time I have been challenged about my lack of face covering was in neighbouring Ilkley and subsequently I received a profound apology for that. Today, I visited Sainsburys, Weegmans (butchers) and Teales (bakers). Wherever I go I’m greeted with smiles and friendliness, I really do think that shops and their staff much prefer to deal with a human face and someone who makes an effort to be pleasant.

But when I compare the supposed lock down of today with the near total compliance of March there is no doubt that today’s lock down is a very different beast to that which occurred earlier. Whilst there is still a high degree of mask adherence in the shops and more than I would like to see in the streets, the reality of the situation is that ‘lock down 2’ is just a pale imitation of its predecessor and this gives me much encouragement for the way ahead.

As that old sage once said–‘Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the strict following of fools’. More and more people, at least in my neck of the woods, are wising up to the miscreants who are running or are at least trying to run this whole sh*t show. Fools are getting less and less.

246627 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Harry hopkins, 8, #1038 of 1519 🔗

Could not agree more, Harry, I’ve mentioned this before but a sweet shop in our small town (Cleobury Mortimer in Shropshire) “diversified” and is now selling “fruit and veg” and sweets of course.
PS:Bloody good fruit and veg as well and decent prices.

246702 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #1039 of 1519 🔗

I believe my local sweet shop is open with just sweets.
Saw them open from across the street, so maybe they had more “essentials” inside.

246761 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Silke David, 1, #1040 of 1519 🔗

If chocolate isn’t essential then nothing is.

246829 ▶▶▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to annie, #1041 of 1519 🔗

A thousand upticks. My wife says if it’s a choice between chocolate and sex. . .

246925 ▶▶▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to annie, #1042 of 1519 🔗

Especially if it’s Green and Blacks on offer at Sainsburys for two bars for three quid. Bought four today (should see me through ’till oooh, round about Monday!)

246635 ▶▶ steph, replying to Harry hopkins, 8, #1043 of 1519 🔗

How inspiring! I’m glad you have more wise men than fools in your neck of the woods.
I’m ignoring lockdown as much as possible but the things I want to do such as cinema, concert halls, restaurants are all closed. I can’t wait for a weekend in London, going to the opera or the Festival Hall but when is that going to happen?

246654 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to steph, 10, #1044 of 1519 🔗

My younger son is a film fanatic and in the past I have known him go to the Cinema twice and sometimes 3 times a week.
He has not gone for months now.
In his own words “I will not sit in a 3/4 empty cinema screen and wear a face nappy for 2 hours or more”

246659 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1045 of 1519 🔗

Do they keep checking on the nappies?

246667 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to annie, 2, #1046 of 1519 🔗

No idea, probably not, but you know some of our “public spirited ” citizens would do their duty and “shop” us sceptics.

246689 ▶▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #1047 of 1519 🔗

I know the feeling Philip. Mrs Hopkins and myself are regular cinema goers but won’t go with all these ridiculous rules governing things. However, as we all know, Coroni doesn’t attack people who are sitting down and eating therefore a determined cinema goer could simply make a bag of popcorn last the whole duration of the film! No mask needed then of course!

246698 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Harry hopkins, #1048 of 1519 🔗

Well said, Harry but what about if you don’t like popcorn?
Only joking.

246704 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1049 of 1519 🔗

I think, Philip, it would be worth the price of a bag of popcorn just to get round the mask thingy…even if it just stayed open on the seat next to yours. Of course you could always wear your lanyard in the cinema but that then begs the question: who would see it?

246724 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #1050 of 1519 🔗

You could get one that lights up. Now, THERE’s a gap in the market!

(Also a muzzle with little flashing LED lights around the edge, for Christmas. sigh….)

246729 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Banjones, 1, #1051 of 1519 🔗

I can see you have a sense of humour just like mine 🙂 Comes in handy these days.

246760 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Fingerache Philip., #1052 of 1519 🔗

Hold the bag to your nose occasionally and go nyumph, nyumph, nyumph.

246657 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to steph, 7, #1053 of 1519 🔗

It will happen and we will all meet there. Just never give up, never give in, NEVER despair.

246678 ▶▶▶▶ steph, replying to annie, 5, #1054 of 1519 🔗

Yes. We must all meet up. A big LS party, or better still several around the country.

246672 ▶▶▶ dhpaul, replying to steph, #1055 of 1519 🔗

2022? 2023?

246688 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to steph, 1, #1056 of 1519 🔗

I agree. Taken to reminiscing about concerts we’ve been to there. Roger Norrington, anyone?

246699 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to steph, 6, #1057 of 1519 🔗

It’s tragic. We’ve been watching ballet on the telly. How truly appalling it is to think of all those excellent young people, who threw their lives into their art now idling their time away, keeping up with their training ”just in case”.

246750 ▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Banjones, 3, #1058 of 1519 🔗

Yep, and told to retrain as computer operatives.
And billions being spent on track/tests for something that;s no worse than flu.

It’s heart breaking and motivates me all the time.

246922 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Rosie, 1, #1059 of 1519 🔗

I’m very sad about the huge loss to the Anglican choral tradition. Some church choirs may never come back. But I take heart in the fact that the tradition was almost completely killed off by the Puritans, and yet it came back again at the Restoration.

246637 ▶▶ annie, replying to Harry hopkins, 4, #1060 of 1519 🔗

Makes me proud to be half Yorkshire!!

246645 ▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to annie, 2, #1061 of 1519 🔗

I’m a Geordie but I love living in Yorkshire!

246686 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #1062 of 1519 🔗

I’m a Geordie married to a Yorkshireman – does that count!

246697 ▶▶▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1063 of 1519 🔗

If you’ve got kids They’ll definitely be ‘salt of the earth’ types 🙂

246696 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to Harry hopkins, 2, #1064 of 1519 🔗

Good news. And if only there weren’t this sinister ”law” against travelling out of the country, then we might rejoice. As it is…. It’s as Dr Fuellmich says ”They built the Berlin Wall to keep their people IN”.
Quite a sinister comparison really.

246727 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Harry hopkins, 2, #1065 of 1519 🔗

Don’t come to keighley, it’s depressing the number of people wearing masks in the streets and I’ve been challenged for not wearing a mask a few times, it is truly depressing, where’s the Yorkshire grit?!! I’m guessing you’re otley? Just been to Bolton abbey and it was fairly normal and not a mask in sight!

246896 ▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #1066 of 1519 🔗

I was up in London today – motor traffic in the suburbs was about normal, I’d say. I’m not sure where everyone’s going, but they’re certainly not staying at home.

246622 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 9, #1067 of 1519 🔗

Watch the videos at this link:

https://www.rt.com/usa/506725-trump-caravan-rally-dc/

#marchfortrump supporters rallying today in DC.

The MSM is not amused, but there are thousands gathering and they’re not going anywhere soon.

Off message but well worth watching; resistance US style.

246665 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to wendyk, #1068 of 1519 🔗

Live coverage at pandemic.warroom.org

246670 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Londo Mollari, #1069 of 1519 🔗

Thank you

246687 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to wendyk, #1070 of 1519 🔗

Also spoken of on Newsmax – Youtube.

246626 JHuntz, replying to JHuntz, 24, #1071 of 1519 🔗

So since the winter has kicked in my mood has absolutely plummeted. Fortunately, I have never really had issues with mental health, however the government has systematically assaulted everything I enjoy doing since March. The Scottish Winter without any entertainment is utterly miserable.

Decided to go out multiple walks today to try and lift my spirits, however there is coronabollocks everywhere. The local park has created a one way system for pedestrians at each side of the path with cyclists through the middle. Utterly insane.

I then went into town for my first time in 8 months as i wanted to see the damage that the restrictions have done and also to see if there are any protests in Scotland. Well there appears to be no resistance to the measures in Scotland with no protests that I could see. I also noted that about 10-15% of the population are wearing masks outside and there is no correlation on the types of groups wearing them. I see middle aged men/ grannies and young teenagers wearing them outside. As I suspected propaganda transcends IQs and age groups.

It’s clear the main industry under attack is the pubs. I find it absolutely baffling that tattoo parlours and barbers can be open whilst the pubs are shut. I don’t think the Scottish population are anywhere near waking up. Just walking around there is an air of complete naivety amongst the population as to what is really going on.

246685 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to JHuntz, 4, #1072 of 1519 🔗

Stick with us, kid. Then you’ll see you’re not alone.

246948 ▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Banjones, #1073 of 1519 🔗

Thanks Banjones. I’ll get through this just a rough spell.

246710 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to JHuntz, 4, #1074 of 1519 🔗

Yes, I would agree that compliance in Scotland is high and there’s no political push back from the opposition parties either. I haven’t been in to the town (Glasgow city centre) since July and even back then it was a miserable experience with masks everywhere.
If there’s anyone else on here in Glasgow or within a reasonable distance then back in September I posted in the meet fellow sceptics forum but there wasn’t much response. I’m still happy to go for coffee or for a walk with anyone who needs to get out of the house for a while and would welcome a chat with a fellow sceptic.

246730 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 3, #1075 of 1519 🔗

I hope you get some interest. If I saw anyone asking for company for a walk in my neck of the woods, I’d respond. Fortunately for me, I have a sister-in-law who is as rabid a lockdown-sceptic as I am!

(Little things, I know – but I’m heartened to see that spellchecker still picks up ”lockdown” as an unrecognised word.)

246762 ▶▶▶ FiFiTrixabelle, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 1, #1076 of 1519 🔗

Hi GiftWrap! I’m across in Fife, so a bit of a distance from you, but just wanted to say ‘thanks’ and extend the invite in this neck of the woods too, to anyone on here who would like a meet up. Compliance to the nonsense is high up here, but I do sense there are more of us than we realise.

246775 ▶▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, 4, #1077 of 1519 🔗

👋 It’s good to know there is a few of us sceptics north of the border, I just don’t see the same pushback as our English friends are witnessing. It’s rumoured that Glasgow and the west are for the tier 4 naughty step this week so I’m hoping that will elicit some rumblings of discontent.

246793 ▶▶▶▶▶ GorbalsGirl, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 4, #1078 of 1519 🔗

Ooh, I’m in Glasgow too – and I’m shocked on a daily basis by how many idiots I see round the city centre parading their ridiculous face masks in the open air. Do you know that mural on the Clutha pub wall of Charles Rennie Mackintosh? I was ranting and raving to my partner all day when someone vandalised the mural by pinning a giant plastic facemask to Mackintosh’s face!! My partner is a big sceptic too. If you organise a meetup again give me a shout, I’d be happy to join in for a rant about all this madness. Ideally in a pub, but fat chance of that anytime this year! 🙁

246947 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to GorbalsGirl, #1079 of 1519 🔗

I’m in Glasgow also. Be good to try get a Scottish meet up if possible!

246985 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to JHuntz, #1080 of 1519 🔗

That’s great. I’ll post again on the Glasgow thread of the meet fellow sceptics forum so we’re not annoying everyone else. Hopefully we can get something arranged soon.

246984 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to GorbalsGirl, 1, #1081 of 1519 🔗

That’s shocking that the mural was defaced (no pun intended!) I hope it’s since been unmasked again.
I’ll post again on the Glasgow thread of the meet fellow sceptics forum to save annoying everyone else. Hopefully we can get something arranged soon.

246843 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, 1, #1082 of 1519 🔗

Me too, I’m in Edinburgh

246826 ▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to JHuntz, 2, #1083 of 1519 🔗

They want to destroy the licensing trade. Think of all the land used for growing grain for lager and hops for beer – needed for biofuels.

246639 Jaguarpig, -2, #1084 of 1519 🔗

Cumtwat should be executed

246643 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 6, #1085 of 1519 🔗

“Most important drug study published on Covid-19 to date? In an Egyptian randomized trial (n=600), ivermectin massively outperforms hydroxychloroquine + standard of care on all clinical outcomes and lab biomarkers in mild and severe patients

 https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-100956/v1
Efficacy and Safety of Ivermectin for Treatment and prophylaxis of COVID-19 Pandemic “Addition of Ivermectin to standard care is very effective drug for treatment of COVID-19 patients with significant reduction in mortality compared to Hydroxychloroquine plus standard treatment only. Early use of Ivermectin is very useful for controlling COVID 19 infections, prophylaxis and improving cytokines storm” And look below the latest deaths in Egypt versus cases

246646 leggy, replying to leggy, 1, #1087 of 1519 🔗

Everyone needs a little black dress at Christmas right?

246658 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to leggy, #1088 of 1519 🔗

Whatever turns your crank!

246662 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #1089 of 1519 🔗

Crank is the word.

246664 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to leggy, 2, #1090 of 1519 🔗

I normally dig the femme fatale look, but this is just silly.

246673 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to leggy, 4, #1091 of 1519 🔗

Creepy

246682 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to leggy, 12, #1092 of 1519 🔗

More normalisation of face nappies. Have you seen the number of adverts on TV now featuring bemasked people?

246692 ▶▶▶ William Hand, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1093 of 1519 🔗

I never noticed the nappy! 🙂

246714 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1094 of 1519 🔗

I don’t watch TV much, so thankfully I have been saved that distress.

246733 ▶▶ Chris John, replying to leggy, #1095 of 1519 🔗

Where you’ll Caitlin tuck her frank n beans?

246797 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to leggy, 1, #1096 of 1519 🔗

We used to just call these polo necks – but we did fold the collar down!

246647 Londo Mollari, replying to Londo Mollari, 4, #1097 of 1519 🔗

Anti-lockdown protest in Bristol. Piers Corbyn arrested. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13196960/anti-lockdown-protests-police-bristol/

246661 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to Londo Mollari, 2, #1098 of 1519 🔗

Comments are quite mixed. There is an opportunity to contribute.

246716 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Basileus, 4, #1099 of 1519 🔗

The Sun comments are usually populated by ‘give them a beating types’ for any protest. I suspect many are paid trolls / AI, attempting to shape public perception. They usually go for the your killing a nurse / granny emotional type comments.

246748 ▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Darryl, 1, #1100 of 1519 🔗

You’d think paid trolls/AI would be a bit better with spelling and grammar.

246802 ▶▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to leggy, #1101 of 1519 🔗

I am not so sure, they are paid to put out disinformation and low level insults and threats to target a certain audience.

It is up to people higher up the command chain to put out the more sophisticated propaganda – for example the Mainstream Media and Downing Street.

246887 ▶▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Darryl, 2, #1102 of 1519 🔗

Don’t forget the emotive ‘I hope you end up gasping for breath on a ventilator, then you might take this seriously’ type comments.

246757 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Basileus, 1, #1103 of 1519 🔗

This is the level of knowledge we’re dealing with in the comments there – Japan?!

And you know that lockdowns dont work? Did it not work in New Zealand? Japan? Korea? Singapore? So then why are they getting back to normal being able to go back to sporting events etc.

Let me guess, you cannot answer.

246703 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Londo Mollari, 17, #1104 of 1519 🔗

They are crushing down hard on the demos in Germany today, in Frankfurt and Bonn.
The people there demonstrate for abiding the constitution.
And the police is using water cannons against them.
And the politicians want them to be obserbed by the Verfassungsschutz.
Tells one all one needs to know.

A new Ermaechtigungsgesetz is planned to be voted upon on 18.11..
A huge demo was planned in Berlin against it that day.
The Bundestag has just now changed the date for passing that law forward to 16.11..

We live in dictatorships again.
And they are NOT benevolent at all.

246717 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Jay Berger, 4, #1105 of 1519 🔗

I sincerely hope that as it’s within living memory to live under an extreme dictatorship in Germany that it may also be the catalyst for the push back.

246732 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to leggy, 3, #1106 of 1519 🔗

People always believe it ‘will be different this time’ but societies seem to have a bad habit of repeating history. So many countries who dispose dictatorships often go back to them, look at Rodrigo Duterte in the Philippines, a real nasty piece of work.

246740 ▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to leggy, 4, #1107 of 1519 🔗

That’s motivating the medics and legal professionals, quite explicitly.

The conforming masses who think mother merkel is protecting them is the worry.

246792 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jay Berger, #1108 of 1519 🔗

But this isn’t an international conspiracy?

246903 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jay Berger, #1109 of 1519 🔗

Ermaechtigungsgesetz?

246791 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Londo Mollari, #1110 of 1519 🔗

Well at least they reported it but the account is abysmally biased.
The comments are downright scary.

246669 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 10, #1111 of 1519 🔗

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13196960/anti-lockdown-protests-police-bristol/

Piers Corbyn has been nabbed again, this time in Bristol. A brave bloke, unfairly treated.

When will Johnson and co start to listen ?

246711 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to wendyk, 32, #1112 of 1519 🔗

Piers Corbyn has more character, decency and bravery than the whole of the house of commons put together. In fact, I can’t think of another person in the public domain who I admire the more.

246738 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Harry hopkins, 8, #1113 of 1519 🔗

and interestingly, considering some of the conversations today, Piers is a scientist and seriously intelligent. You can read some of his serious stuff here:

https://www.beautyandthebeastlytruth.com/booklets

I especially like this:

The mainstream media peddle the claim that 97% of (climate) scientists believe in man-made Global-Warming and that, therefore, there is no debate to be had on the subject. This is false and irrelevant. To get the 97% figure, they basically counted people who had mentioned Climate-Change in an abstract or heading of a scientific paper. Dr Legates* has reviewed the work and shows that, in fact, only 0.3% of the papers claim that ‘man had caused most post-1950 warming’.

Nonetheless, science isn’t about consensus, it is about facts; and no Global-Warming Inquisition is going to prevent me exposing their nonsensical theories . So here goes ….

246712 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to wendyk, 11, #1114 of 1519 🔗

They won’t listen they will only become more authoritarian. Remember western governments (and liberals) criticising Belarus for harsh policing of protests a few short months ago.

We have certainly found something the elite don’t like us to protest against – loss of personal freedoms in our own country.

246745 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Darryl, 4, #1115 of 1519 🔗

And Hong Kong.

246806 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to leggy, 1, #1116 of 1519 🔗

Absolutely, they criticise the authoritarian Chinese model only to introduce it here. Social Credits, Universal Income and Digital Health IDs are a given for 2021.

246956 ▶▶ Iansn, replying to wendyk, 1, #1117 of 1519 🔗

Where are MPs on this, remember CND how many f the current Labour party were super active on that? Compare that with the current crop of career criminals sorry politicians and you can see they couldn’t give a flying one about anything apart for themselves.

246674 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 19, #1118 of 1519 🔗

“Allowed” in to a shop today and on entering, told to use hand sanitizer (ignored her) and keep 2 metres apart (in the words of our teenage granddaughters, like:Yeh!!!)
As far as I could see everybody else ignored her as well.

246783 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1119 of 1519 🔗

I guess she was “doing her job” and, if it wasn’t aggressive or persistent, there are less inocuous ways to earn a living – call centre cold calling for instance.

It’s a bit like all the annoying junk mail that’s delivered with the post. Chuck it straight in the recycling and ignore it.

246819 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Cheezilla, #1120 of 1519 🔗

No, she was absolutely just doing her job as you say.

246882 ▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1121 of 1519 🔗

I was up in London today, visiting my ‘bubble’. Traffic on the arterial roads was more or less normal for a Saturday in November, I’d say. I don’t think many are observing this lockdown.

246679 Rosie, replying to Rosie, 21, #1122 of 1519 🔗

Well, there was a big big discussion today and one of our regulars was wanting to leave. It was all about is there/isn’t there a conspiracy, and what does conspiracy mean anyway? A ‘hidden agenda’ to which the gov is conforming but not revealing, would seem to be the answer. So that was a useful outcome.

Another thing about this discussion that brings serious hope to my heart, is the length and sincerity of it, and the fact that it addressed the issues and not the individuals.

For so many decades we have endured Political Correctness, where any dissenting view is met with abuse and ad homs, and no discussion around facts. Today the facts were aired, definitions of words discussed, and the intellectual starvation we have endured for so long was somewhat assuaged. We need much much more over the years to come.

Best of all, the member (hi) who was wanting to leave realised he/she just needed a break and will be back in a few days. Wanted to bump what Nomad said, because I want to say thank you to Nomad and all the others who took part. This is just the best outcome:

NorthumbrianNomad
Thank you to everyone who’s urging me to stay. And to those who disagree with me, you may be right and I may be wrong. Taking a few days off is good advice and I will do that.

All I will add at this point is: the purpose of all our endeavours is surely to put a stop to lockdown. I submit that it’s better to get out there and talk sense to people. And keep talking.

Couldn’t agree more with your conclusion, Nomad !

246912 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Rosie, #1123 of 1519 🔗

Great post, Rosie. Best wishes to NN also. I’m thinking of having a few days “off” myself next week.

246680 Banjones, replying to Banjones, 8, #1124 of 1519 🔗

I don’t know if a link has already been given for this, but I thought it was worth passing on. Here’s a real lockdown sceptic professional:
https://www.zoeharcombe.com/2020/11/sage-conflicts-of-interest/

246700 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Banjones, 4, #1125 of 1519 🔗

Zoe Harcombe rocks!!

246754 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, #1126 of 1519 🔗

Wow, does she ever!

246835 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Banjones, #1127 of 1519 🔗

Nice piece.

246951 ▶▶ Iansn, replying to Banjones, #1128 of 1519 🔗

What the fuck does a professor of extragalactic astronomy do on SAGE, predict the future or read the Tarot? FFS!!!

246684 calchas, replying to calchas, 19, #1129 of 1519 🔗

Huge enthusiastic pro-Trump rally in DC.

No masks.

No anti-social distancing.

246707 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 6, #1131 of 1519 🔗

His fan base now seems to be bigger, even more enthusiastic and loyal to him than before the election.
This won’t end well in the USA.

246736 ▶▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Jay Berger, 12, #1132 of 1519 🔗

They shouldn’t cheat then, should they?
If the dastardly Dems were squeaky clean then they’d welcome any scrutiny or investigation, and if they cared about the well being of their country.
But they’re not, and they don’t. So they won’t.

246878 ▶▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Jay Berger, #1133 of 1519 🔗

If Trump does step down, I actually think he’d be able to achieve more in a media role or think tank/pressure group type way. As President, the media made it impossible for anything he said to be published without being twisted in some way, but if he was working ‘behind the scenes’ he would not have that disadvantage. Certain central-European ‘philanthropists’ have been using similar methods for a long time.

246900 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to calchas, 2, #1134 of 1519 🔗

Also, where are the mass deaths as a result of all his rallies over the last few weeks before the election?! Weren’t the MSM branding them as super-spreader events?

246694 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1135 of 1519 🔗

Latest fear/shock tactics on MSM: Another 50,000,000 cases and another 750,000 deaths: SO ?

246722 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #1136 of 1519 🔗

If they’re real cases (i.e. ill people), that’s a CFR of 1.5%. Nothing to write home about with respect to respiratory illnesses.

246734 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #1137 of 1519 🔗

I don’t watch the figures – they’re quite ridiculous. They could pluck any number out of their greasy hat to suit the narrative. How do we know that hundreds of thousands of people are daft enough to be tested voluntarily?

I’m sure they must be using the same software as they have in the US – you know, the stuff that switches figures from one column to another at the flick of a finger…. and gives JUST the result you’re looking for. How very convenient.

246751 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Banjones, #1138 of 1519 🔗

Think of a number and multiply it!

246709 NickR, replying to NickR, 8, #1139 of 1519 🔗

Deaths & hospitalisations since 25th Oct.
At least 20% of patients coming from within the hospital.

246770 ▶▶ RickH, replying to NickR, 7, #1140 of 1519 🔗

… which is totally consistent with what has been known since the April wave : this is, to a great extent, a nosocomial disease.

246720 NickR, 8, #1141 of 1519 🔗

Here’s the government positive tests by specimen date from the government website: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases
Hands up those who think it was out of control pre-lockdown.

246726 BeBopRockSteady, 4, #1142 of 1519 🔗

87% rise in domestic violence in Ireland due to Lockdown. The article says its due to the pandemic.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40082294.html

246731 NickR, replying to NickR, 12, #1143 of 1519 🔗

The Government on the site:
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases
report the rolling 7 day average for positive tests, this takes out the variances from varying numbers of testing.
This data is not hidden, again, how can a case ever have been made for a 2nd lockdown?

246737 ▶▶ Julian, replying to NickR, 11, #1144 of 1519 🔗

The case for lockdown was never “made” in any real sense. Whitty and Vallance presented a couple of preposterous slides and waffled about the NHS being overwhelmed and MPs duly panicked. There has been almost no questioning in the MSMor from the opposition of the case for restrictions, from Day 1.

246763 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 7, #1145 of 1519 🔗

The under-cover agents of the narrative are, of course, the totally incompetent, servile, non-investigative journalist clique.

246758 ▶▶ RickH, replying to NickR, 3, #1146 of 1519 🔗

So – PCR throws up a fairly constant rate of positives – mostly false.

246741 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #1147 of 1519 🔗

This is a typical example of what purports as scientific thinking today. Stephen Reicher, Zero Covid worshiper, posted this “report card” for Sweden branding it a failure. Note the use of choice quotes as “proof”, even the latest “We have lost control” is included as if one person saying it makes it so:

Sweden’s ‘herd immunity’: a report card. In March they promised herd immunity in April. In April they promised May. In May, June In July they said there would be no second wave. Current infection rates: Norway, 100 per million. Sweden 350 per million. Verdict? Failed.

https://twitter.com/ReicherStephen/status/1327560574406959106

246744 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #1148 of 1519 🔗

But let’s take a look at how Sweden compares to the component parts of the UK (I’ve left Northern Ireland out, sorry if you’re from there). Bearing in mind that the claim will be that Wales and Scotland have taken correct measures. Firstly cases:

246747 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #1149 of 1519 🔗

And then deaths. If these people were truly objective then why would they cherry pick data just to provide a false argument?:

246752 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #1150 of 1519 🔗

Again … attribution of mortality on the basis of the PCR Scary Fairy. Nothing to do with real Covid.

246812 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to RickH, 1, #1151 of 1519 🔗

Notice how Sweden’s cases were higher than the UK throughout the summer with no corresponding link to deaths, yet suddenly cases rise and they’re supposed to panic?

246897 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1152 of 1519 🔗

A point to note is that all the countries on that graph except Sweden have some level of mask mandate….

If masks worked, then Sweden should have the highest rate of deaths..

246749 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #1153 of 1519 🔗

Again – forget anything described as ‘cases’ (PCR fiction).

246746 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #1154 of 1519 🔗

As always at the bottom of these myths : the fictional Scary Fairy of PCR results.

246796 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #1155 of 1519 🔗

Did Sweden promise herd immunity? I doubt it. Tegnell has always been ultra cautious in everything he has said. It’s a straw man argument.

246753 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 49, #1156 of 1519 🔗

I’ve been thinking about the fear factor and the lack of understanding in general.

I think one of the main drivers of fear for mainstream devotees is that they believe every death ‘with’ covid is a horrific one, fighting for breath and drowning in air. Sadly of course that may be the case for an unfortunate few but most will be from other causes as usual but with a +ve PCR test.

Death is a fact of life. I have seen death from cancer, stroke, heart attack and drowning. I have lost a close friend to a terror attack and one in a plane crash. Where has rationality and reason gone? Every death is sad but I am sure all are not on ventilators in icu or in agony as is being portrayed.

MSM really is the virus.

246779 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Sarigan, 24, #1157 of 1519 🔗

I’ve said from the very start of all this nonsense that the GOVERNMENT is the virus and the MEDIA is the spreader.

246782 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Sarigan, 42, #1158 of 1519 🔗

There is an issue of language – the subject of discussion earlier today (sorry, cannot remember which posters). The term ‘tragedy’ assigned to every death. It was simply not a tragedy when my 101 year old great aunt died a few years ago – she had been in a care home for a number of years with creeping dementia, and was in a vegetative state for at least the last two years of her life. Had she been taken by the flu or covid earlier it would have brought much relief to her family and carers (she was extremely abusive). Tragedy is the appropriate term, however, for a 50-year old who could be saved by treatment for a heart attack or an early cancer diagnosis, or indeed, a young adult in despair who is driven to suicide for want of a job, companionship or such.

246828 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #1159 of 1519 🔗

Precisely.

246858 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1160 of 1519 🔗

A policy of increasing tragedies to try to postpone deaths a bit.

246847 ▶▶ Jo, replying to Sarigan, 7, #1161 of 1519 🔗

Local ex-GP who was doing 1 day a week in local hospital got to see some people dying of Covid, back in April, and was very upset. (GP’s aren’t usually there at the end of life). When I asked how many people died/in ICU she couldn’t say, but got very emotional. At a later date, when she was still practising her zealotry, my partner agreed how awful it was to see people dying and went on to describe his surviving the tsunami on Phi Phi island in 2004, with dead bodies floating past him. She went rather quiet.

246934 ▶▶▶ Iansn, replying to Jo, 2, #1162 of 1519 🔗

god knows what would happen to the NHS if we ever experienced anything like a Tsunami. whole towns – gone, stadiums full of people gone in the twinkling of an eye. They claim 1 million died of COVID so far, 1/4 of a million died in hours in 2002, and through history iy has happened again and again. COVID is nothing in the grand scheme of things, we will have it with us forever, so we need to get used to it pronto and make realistic plans.

246943 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Iansn, 3, #1163 of 1519 🔗

You’d never be allowed within 5 miles of a beach again.

246852 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Sarigan, 4, #1164 of 1519 🔗

Indeed. One of my relatives died 14 years ago with hospital-acquired flu but they were already very sick and unlikely to leave anyway. Death is inevitable, and sometimes it’s just someone’s time. Of course their main condition went on the death certificate because nobody cared about daily flu death numbers back then so no need to be generous with them.

246891 ▶▶ David McCluskey, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1165 of 1519 🔗

No, the reason the terrorising worked so well was that the propaganda had moved to an unprecedented level: not just that you and your loved ones might die but that YOU will be the cause of their death. The UK population is unhealthy by every OECD metric be it asthma, diabetes, obesity, etc. Take just one of these diseases, asthma. Apparently there are 5.6million sufferers in the UK. Times that by the average household of 2.3, and you have almost 13million of the population dreading that they could be responsible for ‘murdering’ their loved one if they don’t follow the Cd-19 ‘precautions’ to the letter. Then add in the millions affected by the other serious conditions that afflict the population.

246946 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to David McCluskey, 1, #1166 of 1519 🔗

Funnily enough, I am the person with asthma in my family. I am a lockdown sceptic and they are all lockdown zealots.

246765 leggy, replying to leggy, 50, #1167 of 1519 🔗

Worth a try in argument?

246778 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to leggy, 4, #1168 of 1519 🔗

Brilliant! LOL. Thanks, needed that 🙂

One for a poster?

246888 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Rosie, 1, #1169 of 1519 🔗
246766 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 4, #1170 of 1519 🔗

Will Cain and Cummings spill the beans?

246784 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Cecil B, 1, #1171 of 1519 🔗

Spoiler alert !!!!

No!

246885 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cecil B, #1172 of 1519 🔗

Cain?

246902 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Carrie, 1, #1173 of 1519 🔗

Lee Cain – one of the PM’s other close advisors, also recently quit/fired

247082 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cecil B, #1174 of 1519 🔗

Almost guaranteed. I have heard steel on whetstone for a wee while now. Johnson is toast (metaphorically perforated).

246769 Stuart, replying to Stuart, 1, #1175 of 1519 🔗

Has Johnners channeled Charles Mackay and come to his senses one by one or is he still mad in herds?

246873 ▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Stuart, #1176 of 1519 🔗

Somebody ought to update Mackay’s superb book. There should be chapters about Trump Derangement Syndrome, Princess Diana grief, and Covid.

246776 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #1177 of 1519 🔗

During my jaunt around my ‘unlocked’ town today I happened to notice ‘Ramsdens’ open for business with doors wide open and window display on full view. Now Ramsdens is a pawnbroker and I wasn’t sure if pawnbrokers were classified as essential services so I went in and asked. ‘oh yes, we’re that alright, we offer a selection of services to the public… especially in times like this’ replied the cashier. He was a nice enough bloke but, on reflection, I should have realised that any business that would benefit from the misfortune of others would be classed as ‘essential’. In times of hardship pawnbrokers always do well. I suppose it’s a milder form of disaster capitalism and whilst distasteful as it may be it does perform a service to those who may be on their uppers. Still, whilst in total support and sympathy generally for small businesses who are trying to make ends meet, I find my feelings towards Pawnbrokers to be somewhat ambivalent to say the least.

246822 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Harry hopkins, 15, #1178 of 1519 🔗

There was me thinking ‘Fish and Chips’ 🙂

246849 ▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to RickH, 3, #1179 of 1519 🔗

Me too ! Must show my liking for unhealthy food. I once used a pawnshop when running out of funds as a student. It was January 1979 (the winter of discontent) and I pawned a gold bracelet which I had got from my parents the previous year for my 21st. Obviously I didn’t tell them and redeemed it when I got a part-time job in the spring. They never did find out and I still feel ashamed. The pawnshop was called Hempseed’s at St George’s Cross in Glasgow, I was very naive and thought that you presented the item to the pawn-man and he told you what it was worth and how much they would lend on it. Instead the grumpy guy barked at me me asking how much did I want to borrow against the item and he would then tell me if he would risk that amount of loan. The interest rate to redeem was extortionate, something like 25% back then.

246894 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Gillian, 1, #1180 of 1519 🔗

Never having used a pawnbroker, until reading your post I also thought they operated in the way you previously thought!

246777 Steeve, replying to Steeve, 4, #1181 of 1519 🔗

I have just read 2 letters from my MP (Labour) – The general impression I get is that Labour think that the Government is following the right strategy but Labour would be doing it in a more cost effective, timely and efficient way.

246825 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Steeve, 5, #1182 of 1519 🔗

The largely Blairite PLP is an echo chamber for the Tories, with a bit of whinging at the margins. Opposition doesn’t enter the frame.

246857 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 1, #1183 of 1519 🔗

So are “you” lot (the non-Blairite left) going to make the same mistake again and think that if you can just get a non-Blairite leader elected the party will be worth supporting again, or are you going to finally ditch them and start anew?

[And yes, I would address something similar to a “Conservative” Party supporter as well. Labour and “Conservative” Parties – unfit for any useful purpose.]

246928 ▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Mark, #1184 of 1519 🔗

I think that’s been the case for a long time now. Modern politics isn’t fit for purpose, democracy has been dead for some time. They’re right that a reset is needed, it’s just the tiller is steered such that it will not be an improvement for the vast majority.

246850 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to John P, 1, #1186 of 1519 🔗

Face Nappy Fascists

246861 ▶▶ Draper233, replying to John P, 3, #1187 of 1519 🔗

What heroes!

Mob-handed to manhandle and arrest a 73-year-old man.

Shameless scum

246788 common conservative, replying to common conservative, 31, #1188 of 1519 🔗

Why are we even talking about Carrie Symonds? I’m fed up with hearing about this nonentity and her ‘opinions.’ Good grief. We shouldn’t even know her name let alone her bloody politics. She ought to be under manners and keep her mouth shut, but Johnson’s too much of a wimp to keep her in line.

246795 ▶▶ Che Strazio, replying to common conservative, 3, #1189 of 1519 🔗

Just tuned in… but at a guess Oceana might be of interest :/

246804 ▶▶ Mark, replying to common conservative, 18, #1190 of 1519 🔗

Why are we even talking about Carrie Symonds ?”

Because although you are correct that we “should not” have to know her name or her politics, it seems clear she has significant influence on how we are ruled.

She has power without responsibility, as Baldwin put it: “ the prerogative of the harlot throughout the ages “.

246841 ▶▶▶ common conservative, replying to Mark, 8, #1191 of 1519 🔗

Indeed. It is utterly depressing. I know we get the politicians we deserve, but do we have to get their moronic girlfriends/wives also!

246874 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to common conservative, 1, #1192 of 1519 🔗

I suppose football wag’s aren’t fashionable anymore fucking woke wag’s now

246811 ▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to common conservative, 1, #1193 of 1519 🔗

Bloody right! Spot on!

246881 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to common conservative, 5, #1194 of 1519 🔗

She’s a manipulative woman – just like Me-again Markle..

246790 NickR, replying to NickR, 5, #1195 of 1519 🔗

This chart shows the proportion of hospital admissions who presented at hospital with a prior test v those who were already an in-patient when they were diagnosed/tested.
The idea that people are milling about in the community, get infected, go get a test, get a positive result, get ill, go to hospital is rarely the case. 85% of hospital admissions some how get to hospital without having a test. How does that happen?

246805 ▶▶ calchas, replying to NickR, 11, #1196 of 1519 🔗

Call me cynical, but I wuld say they go into hospital with a broken leg, heart attack or whatever, amd eventually test ‘positive’.

If you need to test ten times to get a positive, then so be it.

Oh, and if that person dies within 28 days of a positive test, then it is of course a ‘covid death’

246817 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to calchas, #1197 of 1519 🔗

No argument with that.

246837 ▶▶▶ Jo, replying to calchas, 3, #1198 of 1519 🔗

That’s what happened to Peter Sutcliffe.

246918 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to calchas, 2, #1199 of 1519 🔗

I would love, love, love for someone to test everyone entering hospital and dying within 28 days for the common cold – rhinovirus for example. Then let’s have a daily count of admissions “with” rhinovirus, hospital bed occupancy by people “with” rhinovirus, deaths within 28 days of a positive test for rhinovirus etc, and see how it compares to covid…

246820 ▶▶ RickH, replying to NickR, 2, #1200 of 1519 🔗

It’s all part of what is essentially the PCR scam – a pincer movement. Hospital ‘cases’ are obvious (many 2-3 in 1 jobs, I guess). The other part is people who, because of he fear factor, have gone and got a test because they felt ill.

Whatever – you end up with Covid.

It’s a self-reinforcing process.

246798 calchas, replying to calchas, 3, #1201 of 1519 🔗

From commenter; ‘Homericninjas’ at ZH:

“In Illinois now, everyone quarantined/told they were in “proximity” to a positive are now counted in the positive total. So the one positive in a workplace/restaurant with say 50 contacts would now be 51 positives”

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/us-tops-170k-new-covid-cases-first-time-11-million-mark-nears-live-updates?commentId=c10af544-e91a-43b6-97ee-d4708c2fcbc5

246803 ▶▶ leggy, replying to calchas, 7, #1202 of 1519 🔗

I don’t know why they don’t just say everyone is positive and be done with it.

246807 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to leggy, 4, #1203 of 1519 🔗

Well, yes, that would be the end of it.

The way this is going, everybofy is going to know ten people at least who tested positive and never experienced any symtoms.

One wonders, what would happen if everybody had tested positive.

246816 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to leggy, #1204 of 1519 🔗

I think that’s what they have wanted all along.

246913 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to leggy, 1, #1205 of 1519 🔗

It would be cheaper at least. But we might run into issues if everyone in the world had to self-isolate simultaneously for the same 2 weeks. Still, if it saves just one life, do whatever it takes etc etc.

246979 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1206 of 1519 🔗

That would have been a proper two week lockdown and maybe they’d now have no excuse to continue the charade.
If we’d all tested positive, presumably herd immunity would be assured.

246821 ▶▶ Julian, replying to calchas, 1, #1207 of 1519 🔗

The notion that after the election, assuming a Trump defeat, the virus would simply disappear from the narrative never seemed remotely plausible to me. Sadly I seem to have been right.

246824 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Julian, #1208 of 1519 🔗

Biden isn’t in the White House yet and he will want to claim credit for nature beating the virus the same as politicians elsewhere.

246884 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Will, #1209 of 1519 🔗

I doubt it, but I hope to be proved wrong

246967 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Will, #1210 of 1519 🔗

Yep, I only ever predicted Feb – a few weeks after the Inauguration. Assuming it is Biden.

246833 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to calchas, #1211 of 1519 🔗

Laughable. Pure manipulated fraud

246981 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #1212 of 1519 🔗

Pure blatant fraud!

246863 ▶▶ Cranmer, replying to calchas, #1213 of 1519 🔗

Ah, interesting. I wondered if something like that was going to happen. I did think there would be some sort of ‘potentially infected’ category introduced in order to continue the Big Scary Graphs.

246977 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to calchas, #1214 of 1519 🔗

Oh my!!

246815 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 28, #1215 of 1519 🔗

Found Tobys gushing about Dom a little unpleasant but then I’m uncomfortable with the influence these non elected advisors have over policy that affects people’s lives. It is as it ever was though. Having said that, a reminder that lockdown causes thousands of cancer deaths, destroys people’s lives and businesses, criminalizes our youth for wanting to live, prevents human contact for dying people, traumatises our children, pushes people in to poverty and severely damages mental health sometimes resulting in suicide.

So to make it clear. If you are in a position of political influence and have argued for lockdown for any other reason than that you genuinely believe it is for the benefit of public health then you are nothing less than a murderer and deserve to burn in hell.

246832 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Achilles, 7, #1216 of 1519 🔗

Jail time. Has to be the only thing that will restore faith once we win this

246915 ▶▶▶ William Gruff, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #1217 of 1519 🔗

Piano wire noose from a lamp post in Parliament Square.

246880 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Achilles, 4, #1218 of 1519 🔗
246919 ▶▶▶ Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, replying to Carrie, 2, #1219 of 1519 🔗

Yup, I heard about North Dakota. We are well and truly f*cked. Today is one of those days where I’m thinking this mask absurdity will never go away. All I can hope for is that one day it becomes voluntary again instead of mandatory.

246917 ▶▶ Marialta, replying to Achilles, 9, #1220 of 1519 🔗

You’re right. But that analysis alone is not going to tell us why masks have rapidly become a cultural expression, or why people are so afraid. This is the real conundrum. Why are people in many nations with different cultures so ready to stay indoors, muzzle up and do what they are told?

Well, none of this marketing would succeed if a majority of the populations were unwilling. They have proved more than willing, some sections even clamouring for more!

We have to look more at the forces which shape our contemporary existence. This pandemic propaganda is happening in 2020 in a specific social and cultural framework. Many commentators here are older and they express sentiments from their upbringing in the 50’s and 60s when life was different.

I’m sure the list of contributing factors is long….. but for starters:

  1. Increased belief in medical experts (and by default the pharmaceutical industry)
  2. Loss of belief in personal agency.
  3. Health & Safety mentality /risk averse society
  4. Living a highly mediated existence. As Matthew Crawford writes in The World Beyond Your Head ‘Human experience has become a highly engineered and therefore manipulable thing’.
  5. A largely screen-based existence in lockdown makes a captive audience for the messaging
  6. Lack of contact between generations to hear how previous illnesses dealt with.
  7. Fear of death and illness
  8. Acceptance of surveillance
  9. Consumerist society in which younger generation equate freedom as making multiple choices from a drop down menu
247044 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Marialta, #1221 of 1519 🔗

I don’t even think it’s an age and education thing. For some reason, most of the population is weirdly compliant. I suspect it’s to do with what a Guardian article dubbed ‘our shared reality’:

These protests aren’t just a symptom of public frustration. They represent a deliberate break with our shared reality

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/04/coronavirus-conspiracy-theorists-far-right-protests

What is this author saying? He clearly thinks that it’s important for everyone to agree to a ‘reality’ even if it isn’t real. I wonder if most of society probably believes this but doesn’t know how (or why) to articulate it, while our 15% or so don’t even know that we see things differently.

To me, it’s obvious that there can only be one reality. I may not recognise it or understand it, and I may mis-identify an alternative as reality, but if someone else sees the real one then I don’t fear them, or hate them. I probably want to know about what they know so I can correct my mistake.

85% of people don’t think this way. They feel hostility to anyone that challenges the group’s way of thinking. The actual content of the ideas is not important.

I don’t think we will ever be able to persuade the other side to change its mind about this and vice versa.

247054 ▶▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #1222 of 1519 🔗

I think a lot of people just want old-style ideological certainty. After all, that’s what most of humanity had for most of human history. The concept of making up one’s own mind based on a rational assessment of the available evidence is too frightening for most. Orwell explores this in his essay ‘Inside the Whale’ where he argues that most people are happy to commit intellectual suicide by signing up to ready made systems of thought (be that Roman Catholicism or Communism) because it is just easier and more comfortable for them. Nowadays being a ‘Covid Believer’ is just another version of that.

247057 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Barney McGrew, #1223 of 1519 🔗

He clearly thinks that it’s important for everyone to agree to a ‘reality’ even if it isn’t real.

Sounds like he’s been on a Common Purpose course!

247062 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Barney McGrew, #1224 of 1519 🔗

It’s a natural terror of the unknown, in the form of the virus in this instance. There are only two options for reaction: acceptance or denial. Perhaps paradoxically, those of us who are questioning why we have restrictions are those who have accepted the unknown.

(On the bright side, this means we will win, as acceptance always comes eventually.)

247048 ▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Marialta, 6, #1225 of 1519 🔗

Much of it is simply because of the internet. Lockdowns would not have been possible 20 or even 10 years ago, because work and social communications would not have been sufficient. The internet also means that hysterical, emotive news (via Twitter, etc) can spread around the globe in seconds, thus fuelling the fire.

247059 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cranmer, #1226 of 1519 🔗

Sadly, hysterical and emotive “news” doesn’t just come from one side. We’ve got our share of that too!

247007 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Achilles, #1227 of 1519 🔗

Toby gushed about dePIffle several weeks ago. Sometimes I think he’s not a very good judge of character ……

247056 ▶▶▶ Borisbullshit, replying to Cheezilla, #1228 of 1519 🔗

Unfortunately so did james Delingpole who I like but he has since disowned them. Interestingly I listened last night to a ‘Delingpod’ recorded a couple of years ago with old big beast Norman Tebbitt. Now whether you agree with Tebbitt or not it was hard to avoid the conclusion that the current generation of politicians just do not compare. I am not being political here…I also admire former politicians like Tony Benn and Denis Healey. What was embarrassing though was that they were both eulogising over Pritt Patel! I think she is a ghastly politician with a very unpleasant authoritarian streak.

246818 Cotton, replying to Cotton, 8, #1229 of 1519 🔗

https://mobile.twitter.com/rentstrikeUoM/status/1327010665886781440?s=08 – the more the police do this the better – people need to stop seeing them as anything other than the paramilitary wing of our scumbag government

246827 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Cotton, #1230 of 1519 🔗

RIP Gaffs

246848 ▶▶ Draper233, replying to Cotton, #1231 of 1519 🔗

For any students reading, listen to Mudhoney’s “Hate The Police” to get yourself psyched up

246864 ▶▶▶ Mabel Cow, replying to Draper233, #1232 of 1519 🔗

I recommend Riot by the Dead Kennedys.

246924 ▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Mabel Cow, 1, #1233 of 1519 🔗

Not forgetting Beastie Boys and fighting for your party rights.

247011 ▶▶▶▶▶ Templeton, replying to leggy, #1234 of 1519 🔗

“Sabotage”
I could riot to that all day.

246927 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Mabel Cow, #1235 of 1519 🔗

Good Choice.
Mighty and Superior-Conflict

246931 ▶▶▶▶ Draper233, replying to Mabel Cow, #1236 of 1519 🔗

Yep, or White Riot by The Clash of course

246840 NickR, replying to NickR, 1, #1237 of 1519 🔗

Before people get too concerned about Swedes pegging out in the street it maybe that the doomsters are overdoing it a bit.
In Sweden 0.8 of a person per million per day of the population die with a positive test.
In the other Scandinavian countries its 0.2-0.5 of a person per million per day.

246855 ▶▶ RickH, replying to NickR, 2, #1238 of 1519 🔗

Back on the PCR treadmill of duff data.

246842 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 4, #1239 of 1519 🔗

https://t.me/THOMASBERTHOLD_OFFICIAL/57
German World Champion and longtime lockdownsceptic Thomas
Berthold (the only footballer with an IB for 25 years…) calling for coming to Berlin on 18.11. to demonstrate against the new Ermaechtigungsgesetz!

246870 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #1240 of 1519 🔗

We have Matt Le Tissier, Peter Ebdon, Will Carling

246980 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #1241 of 1519 🔗

So the Bundestag moved the vote forward to the 16th.
Demo’s today have been heavily hindered, in Frankfurt/M they used water – don’t know the word in english now.
In Berlin they brought people who are exempt (in Germany you have to carry an attest with you) to an area enclosed by police vehicles to confirm their details. They took a photo of each person, who had to hold a piece of paper with their number in front of them!
A man interviewed refused to hold it, he said he refuses to be treated like a person in a KZ. So the police officer held it.
Berlin police is always very keen. But apparently they were polite.

247042 ▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Silke David, #1242 of 1519 🔗

Do you mean ‘water cannons’? A very powerful hose that riot police use to disperse crowds.

246844 NickR, replying to NickR, 5, #1243 of 1519 🔗

BBC main headline reads “Cummings exit gives chance to reset government”.
Oh my God, was Dominic the only one keeping us from the reset?

246859 ▶▶ Cranmer, replying to NickR, 5, #1244 of 1519 🔗

There’s a scene in, I think ‘Vanity Fair’ by Thackeray. The moment the death of King William IV is announced, there is a mad scramble as people in public life jostle for the coming round of new preferments, sinecures etc under Victoria. I imagine something similar is happening with the apotheosis of Joseph Biden, Emperor of the New World Order.

246889 ▶▶▶ steph, replying to Cranmer, 1, #1245 of 1519 🔗

Not Vanity Fair. That took place around the time of Waterloo and later years. I’m not a literature expert but that is just about my favourite book.

246906 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to NickR, 5, #1246 of 1519 🔗

I think “reset” is just the latest trendy social media word that everyone wants to use. It probably doesn’t actually mean anything significant.

247039 ▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to A. Contrarian, #1247 of 1519 🔗

Good point. Buzz words tend to spread round the corporate and media worlds like wildfire, mainly because of the lack of originality and critical thinking in press offices. It’ s not necessarily a sign of a global conspiracy.

247182 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Cranmer, 1, #1248 of 1519 🔗

It’s only a buzz word because it has been promoted incessantly since the first lockdown.A revolution in the way we live stands behind it.
You are right it’s not a conspiracy because they are operating in plain site.Only last week there was a virtual conference sponsored by the City of London who’s main theme was how to finance the transformation into a zero carbon economy.

246910 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to NickR, 2, #1249 of 1519 🔗

New buzzword.
Drip, drip, drip.

246846 Steeve, 19, #1250 of 1519 🔗

Posted Yesterday by calchas – Thought it worth posting again.

comment image

246851 AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 1, #1251 of 1519 🔗

I’ve just replied to the below survey. More communist diktats on the way! No thanks.

TELL THE CLIMATE ASSEMBLY WHAT YOUR GROUP THINKS ABOUT THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS

https://www.ukparliamentweek.org/en/blog/tell-the-climate-assembly-what-your-group-thinks-about-their-recommendations/

246862 ▶▶ RickH, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 1, #1252 of 1519 🔗

Right wing neoliberal Tory police state = ‘Communism’ 🙂

You have to laugh at the mental contortions.

Roll up! Roll up! Invent your own dictionary!

246868 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, 3, #1253 of 1519 🔗

They are right wing neoliberal Tory Communists!

246986 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, #1254 of 1519 🔗

“Right wing” “Tory” communists, perhaps.

(“Neoliberal” is a nonsense concept anyway – just a term of abuse made up by unreconstructed socialists for anyone who joined the general recognition after the 1970s that direct state control was disastrous (ie pretty much anyone of any relevance).

247014 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, #1255 of 1519 🔗

Well – the post-Thatcher unregulated Hayek-worshipping dispensation hasn’t exactly been a roaring success by any standards – and leads ineluctably to the present crisis of the out-of control domination of global monopoly capital, the WEF etc. etc.

Your ilk had their chance – and have failed spectacularly over 40 long years of delusion, myth and corruption.

… aka ‘neoliberalism’.

246905 ▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to RickH, #1256 of 1519 🔗

Interesting ….

246982 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 3, #1257 of 1519 🔗

You have to laugh at the mental contortions.

Definitely. The ones involving claiming as “right wing” so-called “Conservatives” who actually worship the NHS, allow ongoing mass immigration, support political correctness enforcement and are happy for their police chiefs and other authority figures to “take the knee” to leftist mobs, as well as using unlimited government spending.

247003 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, #1258 of 1519 🔗

I know reality upsets you, Mark – but that is – demonstrably – the reality. The fact you’ve got smacked in the chops by your own side doesn’t alter the fact. Anyone who thinks the Tories are anything but the neoliberal ‘right’ is living in a delusional world of solopsistic definition.

You can’t define everything you don’t like as ‘left’ of centre.

247034 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to RickH, 2, #1259 of 1519 🔗

I think people get a bit confused and think that the Tories are the party of small state, minimal government interference and free market trade. No mainstream party exists to promote such views. The nearest we ever had to that was the old Liberal party, and that died in the funeral pyre of the First World War. Rather ironically, ‘liberal’ is now used to describe people who are generally rather illiberal.

247172 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Cranmer, #1260 of 1519 🔗

The Conservative filled exactly that role, faute de mieux, for most of the C20th, if only because they were opposed (after the demise of the Liberals as an effective force) to the state socialism represented by the Labour Party. It was not their sole purpose, but they were what there was, as far as representation of those concerns went.

Nowadays, indeed, no party fills that role.

247060 ▶▶▶▶▶ Borisbullshit, replying to RickH, 2, #1261 of 1519 🔗

I am not a neo liberal Rick but come off it matey…the present Tories,and most previous ones are little different from Labour governments….they all support a nationalised NHS,comprehensive schols,welfarism,mass immigration,ballooning government borrowingetc etc. I dont remember reading about any of that in Hayek or Von Mises.

247154 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Borisbullshit, #1262 of 1519 🔗

Because of course they recognise that that is what the electorate want.

247175 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, #1263 of 1519 🔗

I define leftist goals as being left wing. They are either goals that have always been objectives of the radical left going back to the C19th/early C20th, or modern ideologically based goals involving radical change to society

Your problem is that you are seemingly incapable of getting beyond the late 1970s/early 1980s socialist obsession with economics and direct state control, presumably because you were traumatised by that defeat – pretty much the only major defeat the left suffered through the long 20th.

246904 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 2, #1264 of 1519 🔗

Climate Assembly UK brought 108 people from across the UK, aged16 and above. Together they were representative of the wider UK population in terms of age, gender, ethnicity, educational level how thick they were. They met were indoctrinated over six weekends

246853 Basileus, replying to Basileus, 22, #1265 of 1519 🔗

My apologies if this has already been posted, but this editorial in the BMJ is an absolute stonker.

He is focusing on the corruption of science associated with Covid and it seems to me that this may be a much easier argument to win than discussions about false positives and excess deaths. Particularly since the media seem to think that the publishing of the first interim analysis of the Pfizer vaccination data means that it will make 90% of people immune.

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4425

Covid-19: politicisation, “corruption,” and suppression of science

246899 ▶▶ Iansn, replying to Basileus, 6, #1266 of 1519 🔗

wow thats an excellent article, thanks Basileus. It should be on the front of every newspaper tomorrow and a subject for Panorama, Peston and newsnight for a month. Fuckers Its a plain as the nose on your face that this bucnh of chancers the quad and their hangers on have an eye on the main chance. Stuff like this will send the fuckers to jail I hope

246921 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Basileus, 4, #1267 of 1519 🔗

Never apologise for a repost, not everyone can see every comment and pieces like this need to be spread far and wide!

246959 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to leggy, #1268 of 1519 🔗

I normally exclude a load of my ‘friends’ when posting covid stuff but this one went to everyone!

246939 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to Basileus, #1269 of 1519 🔗

Thanks for the post!

246949 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Basileus, #1270 of 1519 🔗

Read it today and better late than never. Should be circulated more widely.

246971 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #1271 of 1519 🔗

It’s been posted several times on the Merseyside Police page!

246973 ▶▶ Iansn, replying to Basileus, 3, #1272 of 1519 🔗

I just sent this to my MP.

Dear Mr Whitley,
I enclose a link to an article in the BMJ(British Medical Journal), that analyses the current state of play between politicians, scientists and big Pharma. It points out many opportunities for corruption, scientific and financial, that exist and are currently actively being exploited by MP’s, big pharma, the banks and their hangers on. When will anyone on either side of parliament start to see through this ‘pandemic’ and realise its more of a ‘moneydemic’ now. Peoples lives are being lost because of inaction and lack of questioning by MP’s of the narrative of the government and the ‘science’ it is following.
MP’s will be going to jail for this and the sooner some one starts banging on about this in parliament the better. Every single one of you in Parliament are as much use as a chocolate teapot at the moment. You are all useless and will be unemployed after the next election.

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4425

Please study this closely and pass it on to anyone you think may need enlightening.

Regards

246996 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Iansn, 2, #1273 of 1519 🔗

You should have left it just for the BMJ editorial to speak for itself.

247006 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Iansn, 1, #1274 of 1519 🔗

That’s excellent – except for one thing. What makes you think there’s going to a ”next election”? The way things are going it would be surprising if they allowed us the chance of getting rid of them. Despots don’t usually give up power so easily.

246860 BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 5, #1275 of 1519 🔗

A good idea.

246961 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #1276 of 1519 🔗

There was a moron slave earlier on disputing his intelligence! This shows how astute he is . He’s basically laying down a marker for the Biden administration and friends: don’t try coming after me or my projects, or you’ll regret it, That was also the message behind the PCR test tweet I believe.

246866 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #1277 of 1519 🔗

Interesting this is just making the press! It’s been GP policy for a few weeks. Wouldn’t it be nice if we were offered a straight choice between vit D and a rushed vax?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/14/covid-uk-government-requests-guidance-on-vitamin-d-use

Vitamin D has moved a step closer to being used as a potential way to prevent and treat coronavirus after Matt Hancock asked government health advisers to produce new guidelines on its use.

The health secretary told the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (Nice) and Public Health England to create guidelines for the use of the “sunshine” nutrient two weeks ago, before it was reported that the government was planning to give four months worth of vitamin D supplements to more than 2 million vulnerable and elderly people, following the lead of Scotland.

In a statement, a spokesperson for Nice, which sets NHS clinical guidelines, told the Guardian: “Nice and PHE received a formal request to produce recommendations on vitamin D for prevention and treatment of Covid from the secretary of state for health and social care, Matt Hancock, on October 29.”

The move comes after the government began considering giving vitamin D supplements to elderly people and those who are shielding as the UK enters winter. There is growing concern that many people may have poorer vitamin D levels than usual as a result of staying indoors for longer periods during the pandemic.

246872 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1278 of 1519 🔗

Must have spotted it at the same time. Victoria on here also mentioned the combined use of Vit K- also mentioned in this article

246907 ▶▶▶ Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #1279 of 1519 🔗

And I would add that almost everyone needs far more Vitamin D than the suggested 1,000 iu per day. I’ve had my levels checked in the past and I’ve been woefully low so I take 8,000 iu per day along with Vitamin K2 in the winter.

246968 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, 1, #1280 of 1519 🔗

I take 8,000 IU too.

246890 ▶▶ Iansn, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1281 of 1519 🔗

Started taking multi vitamins as soon as they started thinking about lockdown 1. Got my flu tabs and paracetamol as well. Never needed the paracetamol, but the vits have been used daily. If a lot of people are smart enough to have started doing that back then why has it taken Wancock NHS and PHE etc this long to work it out? And why and Witless and Unbalanced all over this too? Thats what they are paid to do, advise as the are very fond of repeating. Total bunch of waste of time dickheads all of them.If you cant get tablets eat lots of butter thats full of vit D too.

246898 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Iansn, 7, #1282 of 1519 🔗

Yes SAGE for a group of supposed geniuses who’ve had all year to look into the most terrible pandemic for 100 years seem to know fuck all about anything, all they they do is waffle

246970 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, 3, #1283 of 1519 🔗

They know all about how to pull off PyOps though!

246932 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1284 of 1519 🔗

A bit slow on the uptake aren’t they? Some prominent doctors and we on this site have been banging on about this for months now!

246978 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #1285 of 1519 🔗

It’s cheap. The pharma companies don’t like ”cheap” and they have so much clout (money?) that the good news doesn’t get disseminated.

247035 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1286 of 1519 🔗

.

246867 crimsonpirate, replying to crimsonpirate, 4, #1287 of 1519 🔗
246871 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to crimsonpirate, 6, #1288 of 1519 🔗

Both good and bad – how long before they try to restrict its sale in health food shops and try to make it a controlled (and expensive) ‘drug’????? And sell it packed with ‘anti’-nutrients?

246876 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Carrie, 4, #1289 of 1519 🔗

last week when I went into Sainsburys I checked the vitamins display and the shelf containing Vitamin D was completely empty.

246877 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 3, #1290 of 1519 🔗

They’re more likely to make the effective dose supplements illegal because they’re “dangerous”. That means they become expensive as you have to take them by the handful.

246875 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to crimsonpirate, 10, #1291 of 1519 🔗

Yes. It’s about time! Also good to see that they’re talking about vitamin K.
It would help if they at least fed the carehome residents plenty of eggs and real butter instead of low cholesterol crap.

246895 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to crimsonpirate, 5, #1292 of 1519 🔗

Why are they always 6 months behind?

At least at this rate, by May next year Hancock might be starting to mumble about lockdowns not being as great as he thought, and announcing that they can actually be quite damaging.

246916 ▶▶ calchas, replying to crimsonpirate, 11, #1293 of 1519 🔗

I mentioned in March in a DT comment, that it looked like Vitamin D would be a help.

My comment was censored.

246869 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #1294 of 1519 🔗

Ch4 Dispatches on Monday night. I’m still convinced the original pandemic programme is etched into the UK population’s collective psyche.

246955 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Tom Blackburn, #1295 of 1519 🔗

C4 only get about a million viewers tops,

246966 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to OKUK, 2, #1296 of 1519 🔗

Didn’t see the original and don’t have a tv licence any more, so no danger of adding to the number next week.

246879 Rosie, replying to Rosie, 25, #1297 of 1519 🔗

Well, that’s another of the good ones gone. My next door neighbour, only 56.

Not a direct victim of lockdown, but of the neglect of order in this nation. Been stabbed and beaten up by criminal elements, not prioritized for treatment, given one problem after another in this so-called advanced and civilized nation.

246886 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Rosie, 2, #1298 of 1519 🔗

That’s terrible! Are you ok?

246892 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1299 of 1519 🔗

Not at the moment

246911 ▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Rosie, 19, #1300 of 1519 🔗

Rosie, now is the time to mention that you are such a positive voice in our discussions here.Your human warmth comes through between the typed lines.I always look forward to your comments.

My Best Wishes to you after this awful deed

246930 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to calchas, 42, #1301 of 1519 🔗

and there’s something I want to say, to say it now.

The police that came round were lovely, but they were stressed out of their skulls. I’m one of those that always takes the opportunity to greet and to thank people be they binmen, street cleaners or policemen – and I’ve never seen anything like this. Ultra stressed.

I did what I could.

I offered them tea, I tried to reassure them, to talk to them as the nice people that all of these particular individuals are. By the time they left talking to me they were back to how they should be, decent people feeling good about doing an important but difficult job.

So my plea to everyone here is to join me in trying to stop the rot, stop the hatred, and stop the breakdown between public and police. We’ve been privileged in Britain and in all the former parts of the empire, places based on the Common Law – and we need to strain every effort to keep what remains, and rebuild it, and resist the constant generation of hatred that comes from our foul and disgusting rulers.

If you want, if you really want a police state – then carry on as you are, feeding the hatred.

Or if you want something better, then call out the people who are directing this, the gov and the BBC and the ones at the top.

246936 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Rosie, 6, #1302 of 1519 🔗

A fine post.

246957 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Rosie, 11, #1303 of 1519 🔗

Well said!

It was good to see the comments on the Merseyside Police page were
mostly reminding them of their oaths and their commitment to protect the public.

I watched a fair bit of the livestreams from Bristol and Liverpool today. I saw the police very efficiently managing the crowd but I saw none of the brutality that is associated with Cressida Shit’s TSG thugs.

Divide and rule is the government’s game!

Most police are ordinary decent human beings who like helping people. We must not let the tinpot Hitlers spoil it for us and them.
Carl Vernon spoke very wisely about this very thing today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVoMzN-E0j8

Recommend watching at a higher speed.

246974 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Foxglove, replying to Rosie, 6, #1304 of 1519 🔗

You are an inspiration Rosie, my sister and I were discussing one of your posts earlier today. Sorry for your loss.

246976 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to Rosie, 7, #1305 of 1519 🔗

Rosie,
You’ve had a shocker today for which I send my sympathy.
Your reaction, though, full of warmth and love for your fellows speaks volumes about you: you are a star that shines brightly. If I could come and give you a (maskless!) hug I would, but under the circumstances it will have to be a virtual one.

246989 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Rosie, 5, #1306 of 1519 🔗

Thoughtful, Rosie.

As Cheezilla says – blame where blame belongs. The ordinary police are in an impossible situation because of the perversion that is happening further up the tree.

Another feature of the inexcusability of all this.

247020 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Al T, replying to Rosie, 5, #1307 of 1519 🔗

Well said. The majority of rank and file officers will have no wish to become an Einsatzgruppen of Covid compliance.

I believe we are winning the argument one day at a time. Most of the pro lockdown comments on social media are now reduced to anodyne crap along the lines of ‘you try working in a Covid ward’ or ‘our NHS shouldn’t treat you’.

That said, Piers Morgan on Twitter boils my piss faster than nuclear fusion.

247027 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ sam, replying to Rosie, 2, #1308 of 1519 🔗

so wonderful rosie, and that you reminded us of this. not to have hatred and anger. policemen are like soldiers they are doing difficult dangerous jobs to protect people and it is very unfair the abuse they receive . thank you

246944 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Rosie, 4, #1309 of 1519 🔗

I hope we can be of help.
Do you have any Bach Rescue Remedy? You must be feeling a mass of emotions.

246901 ▶▶ Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, replying to Rosie, 13, #1310 of 1519 🔗

I’m so sorry. This is atrocious and people are seemingly blind to any deaths that are not Covid deaths. I know you are fighting hard Rosie, and though it’s too late for your neighbour you will probably help to save other lives.

246909 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, 10, #1311 of 1519 🔗

Thanks Lisa and Cheezilla … and every one here in this amazing community.

I’ll take a deep breath and carry on just as you say Lisa.

and DRW thank you
and calchas thank you also

246908 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Rosie, 3, #1312 of 1519 🔗

Really sad news. Yet we’re supposed to all “love the NHS”.

246929 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Rosie, 3, #1313 of 1519 🔗

Very sorry to hear this and a victim of this country’s myopic obsession with Covid.

My sincere condolences to you.

246953 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to Rosie, 3, #1314 of 1519 🔗

So sorry to hear this Rosie.

246972 ▶▶ Dorian_Hawkmoon, replying to Rosie, 7, #1315 of 1519 🔗

Yes @Rosie, you are right to keep on with basic human courtesies. It is often responded to with relief. People are desperate for normal social contact. There is still a sizable minority who are horrible, the woman at the local Post Office parcel pick up counter who slammed the window in my face when she saw with horror I didn’t have a mask, screamed at me to stand outside then shoved parcel out, slammed window again, for one. Conversely, doing some community weeds clearing today, almost everyone said hi or stopped for a chat. I smile and put my best foot forward. People rwspond and I hope we are making the world a better place in small ways because we smiled and rwcognised a fellow suffering human being. How can these people at the top think squashing this is justified. Where is their humanity? I am glad my parents aren’t here to see this phobocracy.

246990 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Dorian_Hawkmoon, 3, #1316 of 1519 🔗

The PO lady wasn’t horrible, just terrified because of effective brainwashing.
Just show people your human smiley face as often as you can.

247046 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #1317 of 1519 🔗

Sirry, but some people are. just. plain. horrible.
And, as always and everywhere, totalitarianism brings out the very worst in corrupted minds.

247053 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, 1, #1318 of 1519 🔗

I agree that some people are horrible. The Cabinet is full of them!

247015 ▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Dorian_Hawkmoon, 3, #1319 of 1519 🔗

‘Phobocracy’ – excellent term!

246992 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to Rosie, 3, #1320 of 1519 🔗

I’m so sorry to hear this, Rosie. A terrible thing.
It is hard for you to be a witness to it.
I think that part of what this site is for – at least, the comments – is to be a place where we come to recognise each other as witnesses to an ethical catastrophe.

246997 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Rosie, 3, #1321 of 1519 🔗

Condolences to you. Thanks Rosie. Warrior

247030 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Rosie, 1, #1322 of 1519 🔗

Saddened to hear this :o((

246923 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #1323 of 1519 🔗

Golden opportunity!

Merseyside Police. Comments welcome:

https://www.facebook.com/merseypolice/

246935 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Cheezilla, 9, #1324 of 1519 🔗

Call it out, the ones at the top – not the bobbies on the beat.

Politely because it will be a lowly person who has to deal with the comments.

246941 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Rosie, 9, #1325 of 1519 🔗

The comments are awesome. We are not alone guys. Do not despair!

246954 ▶▶▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1326 of 1519 🔗

Hardly a single supportive comment!

246960 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Now More Than Ever, 8, #1327 of 1519 🔗

No but the comments are mostly intelligent, pointing out our legal rights and reminding the police who they are supposed to serve.

247107 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to Cheezilla, #1328 of 1519 🔗

Yes, I meant there was hardly a single comment in support of the police!

247094 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1329 of 1519 🔗

Some excellent comments. This one resonated with me:

Always makes me laugh that it’s the mask wearing sheep getting ill and rushing off to get tested yet people who just live their lives as normal and never worn a mask or used hand sanitizer healthy as fuck

246950 ▶▶▶ Ossettian, replying to Rosie, 11, #1330 of 1519 🔗

“not the bobbies on the beat”

There haven’t been “bobbies on the beat” for decades.

In my village is a former police house, built when the population was less than 1,000. That’s when we were properly policed, by tall indigenous men.

246964 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ossettian, 5, #1331 of 1519 🔗

That’s when we lived in communities.

We also had local doctors who knew all their patients. There were no first schools with 1000 pupils – which is an absolute travesty.

Communities were deliberately smashed by Thatcher and many have lived in impersonal urban jungles ever since.

247038 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1332 of 1519 🔗

The process was started long before Thatcher in the 60’s and accelerated after she left.
If anything, she stopped the trend for a while

247047 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nessimmersion, 1, #1333 of 1519 🔗

She and her cohorts deliberately created the sink estates and the dog-eat-dog yuppie culture.

247005 ▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Ossettian, #1334 of 1519 🔗

Tall indigenous men the likes of whom allowed Peter Sutcliffe to roam free from 1975 – 1981. Give me a few more short minority ethnic policewomen to actually listen to victims and deal with the misogynistic violence which blights society.

247069 ▶▶▶▶▶ Borisbullshit, replying to Sylvie, 1, #1335 of 1519 🔗

Thats not the role of the police…you are confusing them with social workers. The role of the police is to uphold the law. Who cares about their sex and race…the issue is are they any good at their job?

247178 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Borisbullshit, #1336 of 1519 🔗

Ossetian cares about their sex and race, not me. I merely contradicted that being a tall white male necessarily made you ‘any good at your job’. And may be a disadvantage when it comes to spotting misdemeanours by other white males – which when it comes to murder certainly isn’t the role of social workers!

247157 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Sylvie, #1337 of 1519 🔗

Short women are not very good at making arrests.It sounds like you want the police to be social workers.

247066 ▶▶▶▶ Borisbullshit, replying to Ossettian, 2, #1338 of 1519 🔗

‘Bobbies on the beat’ is one of those absurd phrases that politicians use when they are after votes. I haven’t seen real beat policing for 50 years….at best now they walk around in two’s (in so far as they get out of their warm cars at all) chatting and oblivious to what is going on around them. They are mostly a waste of space and that has been the case for decades. 25 years ago when I lived in inner city Manchester I woke up to find 4 young thugs sat in my car….I called the police and when they turned up …..the following day…… all they could talk about was that they had seen Andy Cole (then an Man Utd footballer) driving on the parkway. They could not care less…I would have got more joy calling a taxi.

246945 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Cheezilla, 10, #1339 of 1519 🔗

Comments worth screenshotting before deletion – there’s an awful lot of disgust at the behaviour of the police on there. I hope the worm is turning.

247070 ▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to leggy, 3, #1340 of 1519 🔗

I think it can be hard to tell the national mood from comments on an individual facebook/twitter page. Often a link to an obscure site is posted somewhere, and the supporters flood it with comments in their interest. I think the national mood is better gauged by reading the comments below the articles on national news sites.

246958 ▶▶ Jakehadlee, replying to Cheezilla, #1342 of 1519 🔗

Maybe send them some visual evidence?

246963 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1343 of 1519 🔗

Surveillance State Enabler required, good perks and pension.

246952 AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 8, #1344 of 1519 🔗

What is “The Great Reset”? With James Delingpole

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugRnjpXEwTo

246969 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 12, #1345 of 1519 🔗

Very good, like he says it isn’t a conspiracy as everything is published and openly spoken about. The great reset is happening now in the background, don’t know how any one can still deny it ‘build back better’ etc. Resist it now whilst we still can.

246975 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Darryl, 5, #1346 of 1519 🔗

Mahyar Tousi has just spoken about this too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R99fXxOqnfI

247063 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Banjones, 4, #1347 of 1519 🔗

I saw that, it’s quite positive that Mahyar is speaking about it as it gets wider exposure. Like Jeff Taylor he tends to play things quite safe, might prompt some more people to do some research. Need more people to see the sinister control freak Klaus Schwab.

246983 DRW, replying to DRW, 2, #1348 of 1519 🔗

I’ve been having one of those days when you fear it will never end, especially now we’re properly losing the USA.

246994 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to DRW, 19, #1349 of 1519 🔗

Read the BMJ article. It really does list a number of ways in which the tide is turning :

> PCR not fit for purpose
> Shady government dealings in their pandemic fire sale (Court Case set for January led by Moynahan, Caroline Lucas MP)
> Conflicts of interest at the highest levels within the pandemic operations, including SAGE
> Ignoring or even gagging of alternative opinion in the medical profession
> vaccine dangers

Send that to your MP and tell them to wake the fuck up.

247019 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #1350 of 1519 🔗

There is indeed good news but on a bad day you can just imagine this shit going on for years. And not being lucky enough to have a non-useless MP I’ve just gotten the usual boiler plate rubbish.

247145 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to DRW, 2, #1351 of 1519 🔗

We have had many of these underlying issues just bubble up as the corrupt see Covid as their opportunity for domination and £££. They’ve been lurking, taking little pieces of your liberty here and there, skimming from the top. Soft corruption. Now, they’ve overplayed their hand. They’ve come out into the open thinking this was it, their time to impose their wet dream on the rest of us.

Yet, they’ve overplayed their hand. They thought we wouldn’t be watching. This may take years and there will be pushback on a grand scale. But the people and truth wins the day. I truly believe this ends with Hancock in jail. That’s how deep I think this corruption and illegal use of state power goes.

Denmark protests against the debate on mandatory vaccination.

https://twitter.com/riseupmelbourne/status/1327416927996706816

247162 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #1352 of 1519 🔗

Even if we are winning the thought of it going on for years is still so depressing.

247000 ▶▶ Cranmer, replying to DRW, 12, #1353 of 1519 🔗

I know what you mean. But Trump isn’t going away, even if he leaves the White House. I think he will probably be able to achieve just as much if not more from outside, in the same way Farage has done.

247024 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Cranmer, 10, #1354 of 1519 🔗

Well said indeed. But it ain’t over till it’s over. And it ain’t over. There’s still a lot more counting and investigation to be done – that’s not accomplished overnight. If nothing else it will expose a rotten system, and that’s good. But personally, I think he’s still in with a chance. And I’ve no doubt he (and his party) was robbed.

247045 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Banjones, 1, #1355 of 1519 🔗

Seen the speech by Jon Voight? It is powerful…

247135 ▶▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Carrie, #1356 of 1519 🔗

Angelina’s dad?
Is there a link?

247017 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to DRW, 3, #1357 of 1519 🔗

Keep going – it is like a roller coaster! You hit the bottom but then something or someone gives you new momentum!

247073 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Steeve, 1, #1358 of 1519 🔗

I do get good days when we get a positive development.

246987 Steeve, replying to Steeve, 9, #1359 of 1519 🔗

Why do so many shops have notices saying “No Mask No Entry”?

246988 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Steeve, 9, #1360 of 1519 🔗

It’s a classic “we won’t punish them, we will punish you” scenario.

246991 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Steeve, 20, #1361 of 1519 🔗

Because they’re dicks with no knowledge of the law.

247084 ▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 6, #1362 of 1519 🔗

Also, so we know what shops to boycott.

247129 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 3, #1363 of 1519 🔗

Yep. Still need a hairdresser after binning mine – getting a bit unkempt now.
Principles don’t make for good grooming these days.

247165 ▶▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 1, #1364 of 1519 🔗

Good point, but if you can, make them aware of why you will be boycotting. When cold hard cash is at stake, people may be more willing to question MSM narratives..

246998 ▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Steeve, 14, #1365 of 1519 🔗

Some shops have ‘no entry without mask or valid exemption’. But I suspect some don’t want the concept of ‘valid exemption’ being widely known about.

246999 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to Steeve, 7, #1366 of 1519 🔗

Because the image of a person with a face has become a representation of death. Like every superstitious gesture, act and token, at bottom, the notices are attempts to ward off mortality.

247033 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Alethea, 11, #1367 of 1519 🔗

Which is strange, because what faces are usually covered?
Dead faces.
I think it’s life they are scared of.

247170 ▶▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to annie, 1, #1368 of 1519 🔗

When you say that, do you mean life as opposed to death – so, life in the sense of, for example, having to make choices and take responsibility and face facts and know oneself? Or do you mean life in the sense of mortal being, life as a state bound up with the reality of death?

247002 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Steeve, 11, #1369 of 1519 🔗

Becasue they want to go bust?

247008 ▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1370 of 1519 🔗

If only! Local bakers doing pretty well on what looks like almost 100% mask compliance.

247043 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Steeve, #1371 of 1519 🔗

Only because people still have to eat..

247099 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Steeve, 1, #1372 of 1519 🔗

An absolute Master Baker

247004 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to Steeve, #1373 of 1519 🔗

One place had a sign “ It is the law to wear a mask

247065 ▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Steeve, 1, #1374 of 1519 🔗

Another of those ‘the law is what I think it is’ notices. Just like it was ‘the law’ that we were only ‘allowed one hour of exercise per day’ in Lockdown 1.

247064 ▶▶ Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, replying to Steeve, #1375 of 1519 🔗

Almost all of the shops here have the same notice. I don’t go into shops for the most part, but I did notice that the government buildings and our liquor stores (government run) do post the entire by-law which covers exemptions. However, the liquor store will get around the exemption by offering curb side pickup and delivery options. That’s how the grocery stores get around it as well; where it gets dicey is for goods and services where there is no alternative. I haven’t faced it yet, but I’m sure I will.

247001 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1376 of 1519 🔗

Watching the livestream from Bristol today, I noticed a policeman being wound up by an articulate and persistent protester. A police colleague came up to him and obviously said something in his ear because he immediately put his shoulders down and collected himself.

I don’t think they wanted trouble any more than most of the protesters. Their job was to arrest Corbyn and that seemed to be about it – from what I saw.

Similarly in Liverpool, the police very effectively split the main body of the protesters into smaller groups and just stood their ground as the groups had no option but to disperse. Effective and very non-thuggish from what I saw.

Unlike some of the comments – and I’m glad those trolls were safely at home and not inciting riots on the street!

247022 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #1377 of 1519 🔗

That said, the directions the police work under are still a flagrant breach of civil rights. Never forget that.

247037 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RickH, 2, #1378 of 1519 🔗

Oh I would never excuse their directors!

247010 James, replying to James, 25, #1379 of 1519 🔗

Hi Everyone,

I have been on a phone holiday for a few days.

I have been catching up with today’s posts and notice a recurring theme:

David Icke and the fear of being seen as weird.

I haven’t met Mr Icke but I have read a lot of stuff he writes and was impressed by a speech he gave at Hyde Park a few weeks ago. I venture the opinion that he has narcissistic injuries which make him easy to mock.
However, that does not invalidate what he says. And he has emerged as a meaningful prophet of our current trials. We British are unusually frightened of ‘weirdness’. We are terrified of being seen to be different. In times like these that is a major impediment to critical thinking and it is being used against us I believe. We live in weird times. Take the 5G conspiracy theories. No one wants to be seen as one of them nutters. And yet- do any of us really know what the effects of prolonged exposure to high potency electro magnetic fields are on animal life . I suspect none of us do. But nonetheless we rush to condemn those who, possibly irrationally, are afraid of such unlicensed experiments. The fact is we do not know what effects exposure to
3 , 4 and 5 G fields have on our health in the long term. The Luddites were not wrong. They were just trampled by the religion of technological progress.

Likewise, with those tarred as ‘Anti Vaxxers’. I am not anti vaccination but I do have an inherent distrust of any technology the effects of which have not been thoroughly evaluated. Science and progress have become excuses for lazy, greedy thinking. We need to start being much more sceptical- about everything. Something has gone terribly wrong and those of us who have noticed need to learn to be much more open minded.

247026 ▶▶ Bella, replying to James, 13, #1380 of 1519 🔗

Can I just make a gentle request: that we stop using the expression ‘terrified’ when we are not that at all. I am not ‘terrified’ of Covid, NWO, the fucking Illuminati (whoever they are), death, the Old Bill or a bad write-up in The Guardian. Certainly not of ‘being seen to be different.’ Idle mis-use of language distorts reality. Terrified suggests helplessness, no power, victim and the lack of resourcefulness to fight back. Don’t be ‘terrified’, get angry…and hit back.

247036 ▶▶▶ Bill h, replying to Bella, 3, #1381 of 1519 🔗

Well said Bella.

Don’t get mad – get even.

247050 ▶▶▶ James, replying to Bella, 1, #1382 of 1519 🔗

Please forgive the hyperbole. Please substitute : very wary of . The point remains the same. We do not , on the whole, want to be seen as being different from our fellows. We need to dare to be different.

247067 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to James, 2, #1383 of 1519 🔗

Thanks. I just think that the low vibration of fear takes way our power. Get angry, hit back….but there is nothing to be fearful of. We are all going to die ffs.

247123 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to James, #1384 of 1519 🔗

We dont need to dare really – we kinda are different

247021 Bill h, replying to Bill h, 2, #1385 of 1519 🔗

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54932843

Nick Triggle article. I get the impression he may have been spoken to, but is dropping a few hints on the scam.

Comments are open, Tallyho !

247028 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bill h, 5, #1386 of 1519 🔗

England’s deputy chief medical officer Prof Jonathan Van-Tam was unequivocal this week when he said he didn’t see the vaccine “making any difference” this winter.

Then what’s the point in rushing it out now???

247031 ▶▶▶ Bill h, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1387 of 1519 🔗

Cmon Cheeze – there’s money to be made, and time is money.

First vaccine off the rank gets first call on the pot of gold…..

247032 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bill h, 1, #1388 of 1519 🔗

Twice!

247130 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Bill h, 1, #1389 of 1519 🔗

Please take out the bits where he is dropping hints for me? Too much focus on cases in the first 5 paragraphs put me off. Completely flawed analysis

247023 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1390 of 1519 🔗

Police arrested people in Hull today. No other info.

One photo of Wolverhampton but no info. Hopefully there will be some reports tomorrow.

247173 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1391 of 1519 🔗

Custody Sergeants are busy today.

247025 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 11, #1392 of 1519 🔗

AMERICASTOFF

Tonight on the podcast we ask:

Is Joe Biden frightened of going to prison?

What are the UKMSM not telling you?

Why aren’t the BBC able to find a single instance of election fraud?

So is Biden really frightened of going to prison and is that what all the election chicanery is about. C’m on man, he’s one hell of a corrupt son of a bitch – along with his male offspring and his brother!! The only way he could keep himself and the family out of prison was to fix the election which was clearly heading for a Trump landslide.

So what are the UK MSM not telling you? It’s a long long list, so we’ve narrowed it down:

1. The Trump team are amassing a huge amount of evidence of election fraud. Check the interview of Sidney Powell by Lou Dobbs on Fox/You Tube.

2. Trump has already won a clear and important victory in a PA court re setting aside of illegally accepted mail-in ballots.

3. The state legislatures have control of state elections for the Presidency. Four Republican-controlled legislatures in the swing states are in the process of ordering audits and recounts. Contrary to the impression given by the MSM, Trump does not need to take every claim to court.

4. The Democrats are desperately trying to block recounts and audits through court action.

5. Dominion, the computerised voting system company subject to so many allegations started life as parted owned by Venezuela with Hugo Chavez controlling a 28% share! The voting system appears to have been designed to allow cheating, not to prevent it. A lot of evidence of Dominion malpractice has already been uncovered.

6. Democrats have complained in the past about
voting irregularities when Dominion was involved in elections.

And why is the BBC so useless? They have at least four senior reporters in the USA: Jon Sopel, Anthony Zurcher , Katty Kay and Nick Bryant. The four of them spend most of their time writing personally enriching books or tweeting on their personal accounts, seeing no need to justify their giant salaries by actually doing journalism. They are supported by a huge team of staffers and of course the BBC sends over people like the Scottish romantic poet Jim Naughtie and Overpaid Emily. The BBC has been only too happy to look into examples of alleged electoral fraud in places like Poland, Belarus, Zimbabwe, Ukraine and Thailand to name a few, But despite all the allegations the. huge BBC team have not looked for any examples of such fraud in the USA. Their position seems to be “it can’t happen here so it hasn’t”.

247041 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to OKUK, 1, #1393 of 1519 🔗

The MSM speak with one voice, following a script: https://twitter.com/RealJamesWoods/status/1327684156340326402

247161 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Carrie, #1394 of 1519 🔗

Scary…why can’t the CIA vary the script?

247171 ▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to OKUK, #1395 of 1519 🔗

Because they don’t need to work any harder han the couch people who watch it.

247191 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to calchas, #1396 of 1519 🔗

Lol!

247049 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to OKUK, 4, #1397 of 1519 🔗

I disagree that the Democrats cheated in the election just for Biden’s benefit. They’ve been doing everything to stop Trump since before the 2016 election. There was an article musing about impeaching him in April 2016.
It’s about power, pure and simple. They see the presidency, Senate and House as theirs by right, and will do anything for power and anything to keep it.

247052 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Lms23, -9, #1398 of 1519 🔗

and the Republicans just do squeaky clean corruption, I suppose?

… and besides which, what the f. has the Trump fan club got to do with Covid and Lockdown?

247061 ▶▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to RickH, 7, #1399 of 1519 🔗

There does seem to be a divide on the issue of Covid, with Biden generally portrayed as a ‘believer’ and Trump a ‘denier’ . I realise this is a gross over-simplification, but I do think there is a connection between which one is in the White House and the overall global response to the ‘pandemic’. Of course, it’s not strictly ‘on topic’, but it is a related issue.

247081 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Cranmer, 3, #1400 of 1519 🔗

Absolutely there’s a very strong correlation. The Dems are now using lockdowns to deliberately close down society, and create a diversionary crisis that they sense will help smooth Biden’s path and also set him up for an easy win victory in the early Spring when the war against the virus is declared won.

247149 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Cranmer, 4, #1401 of 1519 🔗

There does seem to be a divide on the issue of Covid, with Biden generally portrayed as a ‘believer’ and Trump a ‘denier’ .”

That specific point has been made to Rick H on numerous occasions (several times by me, for certain), but he continues to post the same nonsense in response to references here to Trump that are not properly abusive, as far as he is concerned.

A classic case of Trump Derangement, it appears.

247078 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to RickH, #1402 of 1519 🔗

Historically the Democrats have been much more involved in direct fraud. The Republicans used to be the party of money and tend to buy elections.

247151 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to OKUK, 1, #1403 of 1519 🔗

The problem now is that the Dems have the money advantage now as well (both Clinton and Biden massively outspent Trump), as well as the voluntary and active support of most of the mass media and big tech.

All the anti-Democrat forces have on their side is the truth (relatively speaking). It was just barely enough in 2016, but seemingly the media and big tech bias and resulting one sided torrent of propaganda will likely prove too much this time.

247183 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mark, 2, #1404 of 1519 🔗

Yes, as well as direct fraud, Trump faced people like Bloomberg deploying the traditional “buy the ekection” strategy of old against him, using his vast fortune to swamp TV channels with anti Trump attack ads.

Even so, I sense Trump won the honest election by a landslide. You can rationalise anything, but I’m swayed by:

– The opinion polls were out by a huge margin…except in these late counting states where the voting process came under Democrat governors.

– That the manual count was suddenly suspended in the swing states controlled by Dem governors as soon as it became apparent Trump was running away with the election.

– That there was the sudden emergence overnight of huge numbers of Biden votes, it seems from machine voting.

– That Trump did so well in Ohio but so badly in PA and Michigan. Especially when you consider the huge enthusiasm for the Trump rallies and Biden’s lacklustre performance.

247210 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to OKUK, 1, #1405 of 1519 🔗

Not going to say you’re wrong, I simply don’t know.

It is clear that Trump increased his vote over 2016, in the face of all that bought and voluntary propaganda, and there can be little doubt that a significant part of the Democrat vote was people persuaded to vote by the constant lies told about Trump, and suppression of criticism of the Biden gang. Propaganda works, as we have had amply demonstrated again by the coronapanic.

Of course, propaganda and bias are legal and it’s up to Americans to deal with the problems they face. We have our own similar problems, but we have no Trump figure at the head of of our establishment pseudo-“right” party. Just another soft lefty establishment type.

247096 ▶▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to RickH, 8, #1406 of 1519 🔗

Biden is in favour of lockdown and a national mask mandate. Trump is against lockdowns and in favour of opening up to save the economy. That right there makes it to do with Covid and lockdown.

247104 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Chicot, #1407 of 1519 🔗

I responded before reading your comment so I make a similar point,

247102 ▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to RickH, 7, #1408 of 1519 🔗

The US election is not totally unrelated to Covid. Trump seemed set on a Covid policy that embraced the Barrington Declaration. That might have prompted other countries to consider a similar path.

Currently all major countries are using the sledgehammer approach with little variation.

247115 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mayo, 1, #1409 of 1519 🔗

I don’t think China, Japan or Indonesia have any lockdowns.

247111 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to RickH, 2, #1410 of 1519 🔗

If anything, even if there is a whiff of rat here, what does that tell you about the massive bias and shutdown operation by the media? It’s been incredible. You cannot believe them for a second. They are not even engaging in the build up of a court case one single bit. That’s just doubling down. One thing about trump is he called Fake News from day 1, and he’s done a great job in maintaining support despite the power battle he’s engaged in with them

247125 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 6, #1411 of 1519 🔗

We have to note BBC, Sky News and ITV all joined the American media in suppressing the various proofs of Biden’s corruption and other crimes. That shows what they are capable of and we see similar suppression of the truth in relation to Covid in the UK.

247076 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Lms23, 3, #1412 of 1519 🔗

Agreed. They ask Trump supporters to accept the validity of a Biden Presidency when there was a Democrat plot every day to prevent Trump taking up the Presidency and then to remove him. They’re still at it now – chief conspirator John Brennan was the other day urging the Cabinet to remove him from office.

247087 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to OKUK, 1, #1413 of 1519 🔗

They went on for years about Trump supposedly winning with completely unproven Russian collusion/hacking but no doubt Biden will have won squeaky clean.

247133 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to DRW, 1, #1414 of 1519 🔗

And they came up with nothing that would stand up. The UK media’s complete lack of interest that the allegations were all based on a dossier provided by a BRITISH Intelligence Officer speaks volumes! Er that’s what we call foreign interference in an American election.

247160 ▶▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to OKUK, 1, #1415 of 1519 🔗

Yes, the same John Brennan who flat out lied to a Senate Committee & spied on them when they were looking at his Agency’s role in torture programs. What a guy!
He did make cryptic reference that Trump knows things that could ‘bring down America’ – of course Brennan will not tell anyone exactly what he meant, but people are having fun speculating. JFK??

247190 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Stringfellow Hawke, #1416 of 1519 🔗

The same John Brennan who tells us he voted Communist in his twenties. The same John Brennan whom a colleague says converted to Islam when he married a Muslim woman in Saudi Arabia ( logical since Sharia does not allow a non-Muslim man to marry a Muslim wonan). The same John Brennan who has never issued any clarification on this but who was sworn into office as CIA Director under Obama with his hand on the Constitution not the Bible.

247051 ▶▶ RickH, replying to OKUK, -7, #1417 of 1519 🔗

“[Biden’s] one hell of a corrupt son of a bitch”

… so , given that Trump is an even bigger one of that ilk [and lost the popular vote last time)… what’s the choice?

247103 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to RickH, 7, #1418 of 1519 🔗

The anti-Trump fanatics, Dems and media, have been trying to nail Trump for four years…they have found nothing like that Biden family corruption – or indeed the very credible allegation by a female staffer of a serious assault on her by Biden or the Creepy Joe video at the welcoming of the new Senator families. The MSM, Sopel, Zurcher, Jay and Bryant from our srate-funded BBC all cover for Biden.

I’m not saying you have to like Trump but not liking him does not justify him being removed through electoral fraud. Whether real massive fraud took place we shall see. As the days have gone by I have become more convinced that it did.

247112 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to RickH, 4, #1419 of 1519 🔗

In case you didnt get the ironic SOB reference, Rick, I was referencing Biden’s videoed boasting about how he got a Ukrainian prosecutor removed from office, using a US government billion dollar loan as leverage. Of course the prosecutor just happened to be investigating corruption in Hunter Biden’s company.

247153 ▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to RickH, 2, #1420 of 1519 🔗

RickH – Hillary’s margin of victory in the 2016 popular vote totals can be accounted for by 5 New York counties
(Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan, Westchester & The Bronx), and 1 California county (Los Angeles). Hence the reason for the Electoral College, so the people get a President of the United States, not New York & California.

247080 ▶▶ DRW, replying to OKUK, 1, #1421 of 1519 🔗

It’s saddened me today thinking that some of the last relatively sane areas of the western world will soon fall. No doubt the BBC will be celebrating.

247105 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to OKUK, #1422 of 1519 🔗

On the Dominian system, check out this New York Times vid showing how it’s hacked.

https://populist.press/nyt-flashback-demonstrates-why-voting-machines-are-bad/

247139 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #1423 of 1519 🔗

Sorry BeBop, the NYT is suffering from Selective Alzheimer’s and cannot remember anything it did or said more than two months ago.

247029 SailorJerry, -4, #1424 of 1519 🔗

He’s a fucking Tory, what on Earth are you thinking? Scum, utter scum. An Egomaniac, sociopath and a loyalist. 🤦‍♂️

247040 CGL, replying to CGL, 3, #1425 of 1519 🔗

Our adversaries – https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=148413636993386&id=111076047393812

The sheeple flock here apparently. They think we’re the nuts ones

247058 ▶▶ Cranmer, replying to CGL, 5, #1426 of 1519 🔗

A 2-second reading of the comments on there suggest most can’t understand the difference between lockdown scepticism and covid ‘denial’. #Wibble indeed, that’s probably about the level of their argument.

247092 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Cranmer, 3, #1427 of 1519 🔗

I’ve been wibbeled on a close the schools Facebook group. Think I was pointing out that Sweden gave a message of hope and we should be rooting for their approach. I have left now, such people are lost.

247077 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to CGL, 3, #1428 of 1519 🔗

Reply with #wobble (of the bottom lip variety)

247079 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Sarigan, #1429 of 1519 🔗

Haha!

247312 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Sarigan, #1430 of 1519 🔗

comment image

Jay’s lip quiver from Inbetweener

247086 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to CGL, 4, #1431 of 1519 🔗

Morons who believe every word that the government says.

247090 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 3, #1432 of 1519 🔗

You’d be surprised. I’ve followed a few #closeschools groups and the the like. Wall to wal fear. They think the government have underestimated the Covid carnage out there.

247119 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #1433 of 1519 🔗

What – when they have at the very least double counted every exaggerated statistic they have presented??

247167 ▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to CGL, 1, #1434 of 1519 🔗

Yes. It’s like a mirror to lockdown sceptics. They also think the BBC are complicit in tbe under reporting and should be defunded. I kid you not. Look at BRUTUS schools.

https://mobile.twitter.com/parents_utd

They work extremely hard to present the view that all kids are infection sources and teachers will die because the government just cares about the economy or something. They want all schools to close, online learning, full lockdowns until a vaccine and long covid kids.

Check out this if you dare.

https://youtu.be/RiIambG8vs0

247188 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 7, #1435 of 1519 🔗

I think I may give that one a miss if you don’t mind – if others feel their heads won’t explode then go ahead! My kids are going insane with stress currently – one is having to isolate 2 weeks before mock GCSE’S that will give her her predicted grades. In tears again tonight with worry. Other one a very bright top A level student who now doesn’t want to go to uni next year and is even talking about dropping out altogether now. She had been utterly enthralled and over-excited about uni up to March. All that promise is disappearing fast – along with her hopes for a bright future. How I hate these bastards for doing that to my beautiful intelligent daughters.

247224 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to CGL, 3, #1436 of 1519 🔗

Probably for the best, our University is an empty shell, first year students confined to their rooms. Police harassing students in shared houses to make sure they have no visitors.
Won’t change any time soon.

247117 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #1437 of 1519 🔗

I do find it incomprehensible that anyone could now believe a single word they say

247136 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to CGL, 2, #1438 of 1519 🔗

Oh but Boris can speak classical Greek codswallop.

247113 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to CGL, 2, #1439 of 1519 🔗

#Wibble? More like #Drivel

247055 The Mask Exempt Covid Marshall, replying to The Mask Exempt Covid Marshall, 6, #1440 of 1519 🔗

If Dennis Skinner was still an MP, I wonder what he might have made of lockdown?

247072 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to The Mask Exempt Covid Marshall, -1, #1441 of 1519 🔗

I don’t know – there was that photo of him coming out of his mistress’s house with his face masked – very Fergusonesque.

247110 ▶▶ calchas, replying to The Mask Exempt Covid Marshall, 1, #1442 of 1519 🔗

Or Tony Benn?

247168 ▶▶ leggy, replying to The Mask Exempt Covid Marshall, 1, #1443 of 1519 🔗

I would imagine him to be furious. As would Tony Benn if he was still here. I’d thank and pity them for it at the same time.

247074 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 28, #1444 of 1519 🔗

Policeman’s help PART 2

So a scenario here. A person goes shopping at Tesco not wearing a mask. This person has an invisible undisclosed disability. The store staff detain this person or this person is detained by police officers. The person legitimately asks ‘am I being detained?’ If the answer is ‘yes’ then stand firm. If ‘no’ then politely continue on with the shopping.
For a ‘yes’ detention, the police officer(s), none of whom are wearing hats, some having hands in pockets (discipline offences), then question said person as to why they’re not wearing a mask. Person states ‘I am exempt’. This should be ‘game over’.
However, the Police officer asks for reasons for exemption – instant discrimination under the Equality Act 2010 (court case on this basis alone against the numbered officer and potentially the Chief Constable also!)
Person refuses to provide details.
Police Officer(s) threaten arrest.
Person asks for what offence?
Police Officer(s) fails to clarify (this is a requirement under law to know the offence before or after the caution is stated)
Police Officer then states a fine will be issued.
Person declines to give details or says he is Mickey Mouse and he lives in Hollywood
Police Officer arrests person under Section 24 of PACE Act 1984 (for an offence?!)
Person requests to order a taxi to travel to the police station for personal reasons.
Request denied, person placed in police vehicle (Codes of Practice broken against person’s taxi request)
On arrival at the Custody Centre, person confirms their right to a copy of the Codes of Practice, free legal advice and a phone call.
Person immediately lodges complaint request with the Duty Inspector on the circumstances of the arrest, drawing attention to unlawful imprisonment and Police discipline regulations.
Person, with legal advice, drafts a Statement under Caution to this effect for the consequent taped interview
Person reads this out and refuses to answer any subsequent questions (lawful right)
Person refuses to accept any fine(s) pleading ‘not guilty’ (clogging up the Court system which is at breaking point now anyway!)
After release, person immediately submits an online tribunal/court application for discrimination under the Equality Act 2010, counter suing the Police for unlawful arrest, unlawful imprisonment and breaches against the Codes of Practice.
I hope that this is useful

247106 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1445 of 1519 🔗

Very good!

247114 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1446 of 1519 🔗

That’s brilliant Cheezilla! Thank you.

On Aron Freeman’s (the Bristolian tattoist who keeps being hassled) video earlier he was suggesting that the arresting officers have a re-read of their oath.
Would anyone be able to post the wording of that oath here too so we can see which are the relevant parts we need to be aware of?

247124 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to CGL, 1, #1447 of 1519 🔗

Thanks. I found it in the comments on the Merseyside Police page!

247131 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1448 of 1519 🔗

Here’s the oath:

I, … of … do solemnly and sincerely declare and affirm that I will well and truly serve the Queen in the office of constable, with fairness, integrity, diligence and impartiality, upholding fundamental human rights and according equal respect to all people; and that I will, to the best of my power, cause the peace to be kept and preserved and prevent all offences against people and property; and that while I continue to hold the said office I will to the best of my skill and knowledge discharge all the duties thereof faithfully according to law.

247184 ▶▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Cheezilla, #1449 of 1519 🔗

Fantastic – now to commit it to memory 🙂
Thank you very much.

247144 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #1450 of 1519 🔗

The whole legal side of this hoo-haa is now looking very threadbare. I think this needs a statement from the Attorney General to be given to Parliament, it is ironic that the leader of the opposition is a lawyer but is so keen on lock downs that he is unlikely to challenge the legal side of all this.
They might get away with the fact that when this started it was an urgent emergency situation but as things are now I do not see how they can continue to use the Public Health act to impose lock-downs?
I think we should all write to our MPs to challenge them on the legal basis of all this and to suggest to them that as a matter of legal principle they should object to any further attempts to bring in Statutory Instruments based on the Public Health Act.

247075 Cheezilla, 18, #1451 of 1519 🔗

Policeman’s help PART 1

Copied and pasted
From a former police officer. Thank you. Knowing the law and your rights.

As a former Police Officer, I am becoming increasingly concerned at seeing incidents where the public are being arrested at will UNLAWFULLY
These are guidelines ONLY as from Government dictats, or Statutory Instruments, under the Public Health Act (Control of Diseases) Act 1984.
According to Lord Sumption, the Civil Contingencies Act of 2004 would be a much more appropriate piece of legislation.
So, why isn’t this used instead? Because it would require an Act of Parliament and would provide stringent provisions for Parliamentary scrutiny.
What about the powers of arrest being seen to be abused so often?
Firstly, these are NOT for arrestable offences. These are strictly for crimes of assault, theft, which are summary or indictable offences.
Section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986 (harassment, alarm or distress) seems to be used the most often used, but this requires a warning to be issued.
The key points here are for ‘a person of reasonable firmness present at the scene to fear for his personal safety’. So, quite open to interpretation and debatable in a Court of Law!
What about the conduct of Police Officers themselves?
They must be appropriately dressed for a start. The wearing of headgear is ‘compulsory under Police Regulations’ whilst performing public duties.
Seeing the propensity for TSG officers and the like to resort to unreasonable violence, brings up the prospect for citizens’ arrest powers under Section 24(a) of PACE Act 1984. Here it states where ‘a person can legally arrest anyone who is in the act of committing an indictable offence or whom the person has reasonable grounds to suspect is committing an indictable offence’. For example GBH/wounding (causing blood to flow) where a Police Officer has wounded a member of the public which a person of reasonable firmness would find fearful.
Furthermore, you have to believe that ‘at the time of the arrest it is not reasonably practicable for a Police Officer to perform the arrest’. So, if a Police Officer were committing this offence, foreseeably you have the power to affect an arrest on a rogue Police Officer thereby compelling other Police Officers to act on this.
Section 3 of the Criminal Law Act 1967 provides everyone with the provision to use ‘reasonable force’.
Where a Police Officer is NOT in the ‘lawful execution of his/her duty’ there are legal protections for you to resist arrest (assault/resist/obstruct Police under the Police Act 1996).
Section 25 of PACE Act 1984 provides for the scenario where ‘a constable has reasonable grounds for suspecting that any offence which is not an arrestable offence has been committed or attempted, or is being committed or attempted, he may arrest the relevant person if it appears to him that service of a summons is impracticable or inappropriate because any of the general arrest conditions is satisfied’. The key words here are OFFENCE. The government’s statutory instruments under the Public Health Act are NOT offences. They have been very liberal with ‘mandatory’, ‘must’ etc. These are not enforceable under law.
Finally, the issues of fines are under Fixed Penalty Notice regulations; these were established for ‘relatively minor regulatory offences’. Again that word OFFENCE. It would be very difficult to persuade a Court of Law that £1,000s of fines under the Public Health Act are legitimate (funnily enough, CPS have dropped lots of such cases!).

247083 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #1452 of 1519 🔗

Rebellion growing in Tory camp – Damian Green and Tom Tugendhat quoted:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/11/14/boris-johnson-facing-growing-lockdown-revolt-among-tory-mps/

‘Boris Johnson facing growing lockdown revolt among Tory MPsThe Covid Recovery Group, launched to fight the imposition of a third national lockdown, now has around 70 lawmakers as members’

I think there is another informal group of 45 on a WhatsApp group, but not sure if there is now an overlap.

247088 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 9, #1453 of 1519 🔗

Tom Tugendtwat who wants coerced vaccinations???

247097 ▶▶▶ Bill h, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1454 of 1519 🔗

More Gaslighting ?

Should see some clarity emerge over the coming week.

247109 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Nick Rose, 8, #1455 of 1519 🔗

As long as they are all first in the queue, with their partners, parents, kids, and I can then observe the side effects over a timeframe of about 6 months at a minimum, I ‘might’ risk it. However, it is likely to have disappeared by then, rendering any vaccine a complete waste of time and resources.

247122 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #1456 of 1519 🔗

Don’t you think they’ll just put areas into tier 3, which is pretty similar to the current full mockdown anyway?

I suspect this third mockdown debate is a load of smoked red herrings.

247128 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1457 of 1519 🔗

I think so, though I expect they’ll create tier 4 in the next couple of weeks.

247146 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Charlie Blue, #1458 of 1519 🔗

Yes I expect it will be back to regional tiers in December as a token “concession”.

247137 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #1459 of 1519 🔗

I think the mood is changing now towards mental health and the economy. They know people are not observing lockdown, so what’s the point in keeping any restrictions at all. The data does not support it, and they are much better informed than they were a couple of weeks ago.

247163 ▶▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #1460 of 1519 🔗

Certainly the panic of March seems to have gone. There’s lots of huffing and puffing about ‘covid security’ and ‘controlling the virus’ but it seems more and more to be lip service to social conformity with the general public. Yes we have some psychopaths in positions of authority but even they can’t impose things on the general public unless the general public wants them.

247179 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #1461 of 1519 🔗

Trouble is they’ve created a monster in the self-righteous, self-preserving, virtuous maskzealot lockdownistas – what do they say to quell their hysterical rantings?

247093 Mabel Cow, replying to Mabel Cow, 14, #1462 of 1519 🔗

Panscepticon now has a links library .

The link library is a single page that lists every link from every comment that scored 10 or more likes. The links are grouped by URL and ranked by descending popularity.

Much to my surprise, my website has appeared in first place. It’s not a fix, honest guv. 😀

Next on my list is to segregate the library by resource type. This will make the list easier to use because it will create separate lists for documents, images, and videos.

It’s a bit of a rush job, so let me know if you spot any bugs. Any suggestions for improvements will be gratefully received.