2021-01-01

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2021/01/01/latest-news-241/
Published2021-01-01T05:19:31
Last updated2021-01-01T10:16:32
Scraped2021-01-02T10:40:40
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329760 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 13, #1 of 1197 🔗

First of the year.

329763 ▶▶ Hugh, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 18, #2 of 1197 🔗

Technically first of the new cycle 🙂

I’m glad I’m not the only one who failed to see the “racism” in your post yesterday. I don’t doubt that there are eugenicist elements involved in big pharma.

I should add that we are missing some nine million lives since 1968 *minus those who would’ve emigrated or died but plus their children). If they had been allowed to live, there would’ve been less pressure for large scale immigration (this is what happened in Ireland). This will also be China’s downfall, and their demographic crisis has lead to them importing wives from China which in the long term will likely change their culture.

I dare say some will disagree with me, but that’s how I feel, and I think it will be a sad day when we are no longer allowed to express our different opinions (and believe me, this is already happening, apparently we already have the thought crime of silent prayer).

329765 ▶▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to Hugh, 23, #3 of 1197 🔗

I did qualify my post by saying that i am most likely wrong, since it’s just my opinion. But i could never quite understand one thing… If they’re concerned about the European population getting older and reproduction rates falling below replacement… why is it that their first instinct is “let’s import people from all over the planet”? Why not understand why this is happening and try and fix it?

As far as i can tell in my ignorance on the subject, European people want to have a home and a stable source of income before they have children. And we all know what an expensive endeavor that is. Why not provide tax cuts for people have children? Wouldn’t that be a more sensible idea?

Like i said in my post yesterday: i have no proof that this is happening. I’m sure there is proof, but i don’t have it. But if this was indeed what was happening, they would be behaving exactly as they are now.

329773 ▶▶▶▶ ElizaP, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 9, #4 of 1197 🔗

Why not have tax cuts for people who DON’T have children – as we are bringing the world population down?!

329923 ▶▶▶▶▶ J4mes, replying to ElizaP, 5, #5 of 1197 🔗

Do you support mass immigration, usually from countries that have comparatively enormous populations to our own, and who are not the least bit interested in your fears of global population numbers?

330042 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to ElizaP, 4, #6 of 1197 🔗

You’ve apparently missed the whole point of the demographic time bomb. Only the shortsighted would suggest subsidising people who have chosen to spend less on the future. The voluntarily childless will no doubt still expect the services of other people’s children to ease their passage into and through the final years.

330154 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to ElizaP, 3, #7 of 1197 🔗

Absent mass immigration, there has been no population growth in this country for decades.

There is only one continent in which population growth is forecast to remain a problem. And encouraging mass migration merely provides a release valve to perpetuate that growth.

330189 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to ElizaP, 2, #8 of 1197 🔗

Because as we’re being reminded by the EU and the UN for years now, Europe’s population is going down and there’s less and less working age people, so that’s why we all need to import people from Africa and the Middle East. This is the issue we’re talking about. Sure, if you want to point out their hypocrisy, that’s fine too.

329787 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 2, #9 of 1197 🔗

Hitler was somewhat conflicted on that issue.
On the one hand he told in Mein Kamp that one reason to invade the east was to create ‘Living Space’ for the German people. This was to be occupied by the State owned offspring of selected Aryan breeders of which there were some 20,000 by 1945.
So keen were the nazis to fill the space created they took to kidnapping thousands of ‘German Looking’ Polish, Baltic and even Russian children to be shipped back to the Reich and there be Germanised (inc nazification).

Thus the whole Aryan Nation thing was to be built on a lie.

329896 ▶▶▶▶ LMS2, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 9, #10 of 1197 🔗

Hungary has implemented family and children-friendly measures and have reversed their decreasing birth rates.

329935 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 23, #11 of 1197 🔗

If they’re concerned about the European population getting older and reproduction rates falling below replacement… why is it that their first instinct is “let’s import people from all over the planet”? Why not understand why this is happening and try and fix it ?”

Or, if people are honestly concerned about overpopulation as most of the most obsessive anti-racist dogmatists seem to claim to be, you would think they’d see a stable or declining population as a good thing and work to ameliorate any problems so we can live with it.

But no, instead they push mass migration, to essentially give the population growth areas of the world a release valve so that they can continue to expand their numbers by exporting their surpluses to other places.

The reality is that antiracism is pushed for ulterior political reasons – political radicalism and cheap labour. A convergence of interests between two very different groups, the radical left and bug business, exemplified by the Blairism that now dominates all our mainstream politics and media. This has always been the case, and those who meekly accepted the supposedly noble message of antiracism are no different from the dupes who accept the coronapanic message on the basis that it is supposedly the only decent, caring option. There are many good people who support each cause, because they genuinely believe in the cover story.

Decency cynically exploited by liars is the essence of politics, and pretty much always has been.

330036 ▶▶▶▶▶ J4mes, replying to Mark, 15, #12 of 1197 🔗

Political correctness since the days of Tony Blair *coincidentally* did a great job of preparing the country for this lockdown, didn’t it? Getting us all obedient and compliant, accepting, and in many cases like we see dotted around here, people promoting our decline and replacement for the greater good of world population figures.

Then came the crash of our civilisation in the name of Covid-19. Strangely, people can’t join the dots, they can’t see that political correctness is the same as the Cult of Corona.

330319 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to J4mes, 3, #13 of 1197 🔗

Read it and weep. The Blair government was obsessed with implementing all sorts of laws:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=How+many+laws+did+Blair+enact&ia=web

330207 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to Mark, 2, #14 of 1197 🔗

My opinion is that population decline is the expected outcome of civilization. We’re moving away from our base instincts. We’re more concerned with the quality of life, not the quantity of life. If Europe is left to its own devices, sooner or later the population size will stabilize.

330355 ▶▶▶▶▶ common conservative, replying to Mark, 1, #15 of 1197 🔗

Excellent post, Mark.

329847 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Hugh, 1, #16 of 1197 🔗

Pardon my ignorance, but what is your reference to “silent prayer”?

330972 ▶▶▶▶ Hugh, replying to Bugle, #17 of 1197 🔗

outside abortion clinics. Concillors actually want to ban “protesters” (prayer vigils) from praying silently outside these places. I know about this from my Christian contacts. etc., it is a freedom of expression and it is positively disturbing. All sorts of peaceful and less peaceful protests are tolerated – if freedom means anything at all, it means the freedom to tell people what they don’t want to hear. As long as they are peaceful and keep to already existng laws, these vigils should absolutely be allowed to continue.

330564 ▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Hugh, 2, #18 of 1197 🔗

Quite.

Approximate number of terminations per annum – 190,000.

Approximate net immigration to the UK per annum – 180,000.

Go figure.

330968 ▶▶▶ Hugh, replying to Hugh, #19 of 1197 🔗

should read importing wives from the Philippines. And North Korea.

330975 ▶▶▶ Hugh, replying to Hugh, #20 of 1197 🔗

should read importing wives from the Philippines.

330271 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 2, #21 of 1197 🔗

Sorry, under the new Great Reset rules you will now be last. You’ll be last but you’ll be happy – soon as you take Dr Schwab’s Happiness Pill.

330326 ▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to OKUK, #22 of 1197 🔗

Bugblatter Beast magic potion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1ElWBA7bD4

329761 Hugh, replying to Hugh, 48, #23 of 1197 🔗

A fantastic post yesterday by Fred, I’m glad it’s been flagged up above the line. I just hope we can forgive one day, like with the Germans after ww2. My grandad fought the Nazis but his son later lived in Germany. Still, for now we must refuse to collaborate in whatever way we can. Happy new year everyone, happiness is your choice, not the government’s, whatever else they take away from you.

329846 ▶▶ Dorian_Hawkmoon, replying to Hugh, 16, #24 of 1197 🔗

I re-posted to my FB profile unattributed. Great piece. It won’t endear me to some but wtf.

329919 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Hugh, 11, #25 of 1197 🔗

Forgiveness in public life requires justice, first.

330309 ▶▶▶ Jo Starlin, replying to Mark, 2, #26 of 1197 🔗

And remorse.

330973 ▶▶▶ Hugh, replying to Mark, #27 of 1197 🔗

justice and peace, they say. I certainly hope there will be justice, but it’s gonna be a long fight.

330116 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Hugh, 4, #28 of 1197 🔗

We shall not forget or forgive.

330455 ▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to Rowan, 2, #29 of 1197 🔗

We shall overcome.

329762 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 28, #30 of 1197 🔗

I’m glad that New Zealand is giving a platform to medical experts from the other side of the argument. But i have a feeling i can’t shake that people will start boycotting the organizers for inviting “anti-vaxxers” and “conspiracy theorists”. If that is the case, the track record isn’t great. Most organizations cave under the pressure. Let’s hope this won’t be the case this time around.

329764 ▶▶ Hugh, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 3, #31 of 1197 🔗

first uptick of the year 😉

Good night Vienna

329807 ▶▶ optocarol, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 3, #32 of 1197 🔗

CovidplanB has already had a symposium with some of the same speakers. (It was very interesting.) Hence I’m not sure what you mean by “cave under the pressure”. I’m sorry I won’t be able to go but it will be on their website in due course, as is the previous one. They have been having webinars every Monday night for months now – on holiday at the moment though.

330192 ▶▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to optocarol, 1, #33 of 1197 🔗

There have been a lot of conferences on a lot of topics in a lot of different fields that have dismissed speakers based on bs complaints from the PC crowd.

329766 Cecil B, 40, #34 of 1197 🔗

It’s not Great anymore

It’s not Britain anymore

329767 Annie, replying to Annie, 149, #35 of 1197 🔗

New Year resolutions.

I will not be turned into a zombie.
I will not gibber in fear of a disease that has a 99.97% survival rate
I will not cower in a hole like a frightened rabbit.
I will not exchange living life for living death.
I will not kow-tow to a tinpot Stalinist dictator.
I will not believe government lies.
I will not be terrorised by media death porn.
I will not consider other people as squelching sacks of poison.
I will not delete my face.
I will never surrender.
I will remain human,

329828 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Annie, 23, #36 of 1197 🔗

We need less resolution more revolution

330662 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Cecil B, 2, #37 of 1197 🔗

Yes, a new year revolution has a good ring to it.

329893 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Annie, 13, #38 of 1197 🔗

Well said and we need to spread this message more.

329768 PatrickF, replying to PatrickF, 41, #39 of 1197 🔗

2021, the year to reclaim the joy, meaning and purpose of life.

329774 ▶▶ ElizaP, replying to PatrickF, 8, #40 of 1197 🔗

I do hope you’re right. I do fear that the whole year will find the only smile I have on me is the smilie badge I’ve bought to wear around – in reference to the “Smiley face” campaign starting up for those of us in “the Resistance” to change our Facebook photo to a smiley face one – so that we recognize each other online quickly.

329776 ▶▶▶ TC, replying to ElizaP, 5, #41 of 1197 🔗

I prefer to carry a Prisoner No 6 keyring and badge!

329777 ▶▶▶ maggie may, replying to ElizaP, 1, #42 of 1197 🔗

what is the name of your facebook group? something with resistance in the title?

329783 ▶▶▶▶ ElizaP, replying to maggie may, 3, #43 of 1197 🔗

This “smiley face” idea is being promulgated across the anti-Lockdown Facebook groups. Though my own one includes “Truth” in its name.

329841 ▶▶▶▶ Marialta, replying to TC, 3, #45 of 1197 🔗

Very interesting article.

One reason I balk at using the smiley face to signify resistance is that I associate it with choosing one of the numerous predetermined smiley face emoticons on WhatsApp. I only use about 4 as I have no idea what the others mean.

329848 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fiona Walker, replying to Marialta, 29, #46 of 1197 🔗

Are these the emoticons for pro-lockdown Facebook groups?

329862 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Marialta, replying to Fiona Walker, #47 of 1197 🔗

I want to know more about these

329867 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Marialta, replying to Marialta, 4, #48 of 1197 🔗

I’m thinking of starting my own anti lockdown FB group but am a novice at FB and hate the idea – but things are desperate and I would do it for the Resistance

330110 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Just Stop it Now, replying to Marialta, 6, #49 of 1197 🔗

Hi Marialta, no need to set up your own! Check out the Back to Normal FB group – also on MeWe and of course we have a website . We are a rapidly growing group of ordinary folk, peacefully delivering simple and powerfully worded leaflets to get the message out to those who get their ‘news’ from the main stream media. 200,000 leaflets have been printed, delivered or are out with our local teams to be delivered.

330200 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Marialta, replying to Just Stop it Now, #50 of 1197 🔗

Hi JSIN thanks yes I already deliver those Back to Normal cards they are great I will check out their FB group too.

330463 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to Fiona Walker, #51 of 1197 🔗

That is funny. An apt comment on this absurd scamdemic.

330489 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to Fiona Walker, #52 of 1197 🔗

I tried to copy and paste these emojis on my Facebook page but it didn’t work.

329888 ▶▶▶▶ ElizaP, replying to TC, #53 of 1197 🔗

I can’t claim credit for that idea – but that article was a useful reference point on it. Thanks.

329936 ▶▶ dhpaul, replying to PatrickF, 8, #54 of 1197 🔗

I fear that 2021 will be merely the second wasted year.
My main hope is that it will slowly dawn on people around late summer that despite having had the vaccine, the restrictions remain and that the half life they are living is as good as its going to get.

330447 ▶▶▶ Jolly Green Giant, replying to dhpaul, 5, #55 of 1197 🔗

I agree. I’m actually at the point now where I suspect that they actually WANT to keep this shit-show rolling. After all it’s done wonders for the profiles (and careers) of non-entities like Hancock, Whitty, Valance, Sturgeon and Drakeford. They won’t want to give up that sort of power in a hurry, if at all. So they’ll keep on pulling “even-more-scary-than-the-last-new-strain” new strains out of their arses ad infinitum, or coming up with other scaremongering tactics. They’ve already started backpedalling on the vaccine stopping transmission.

330669 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Jolly Green Giant, 2, #56 of 1197 🔗

They’ve already started backpedalling on the vaccine stopping transmission.

Only because that’s undeniable.

329769 PatrickF, replying to PatrickF, 8, #57 of 1197 🔗

I’d like to wish Professor Hugh Montgomery of El Alemain a particularly happy New Year.

329771 ▶▶ Annie, replying to PatrickF, 13, #58 of 1197 🔗

I’d like to set Rommel on him. Or the Desert Rats. Or both.
PS. Rommel perished in the end because he supported the Stauffenberg plot to kill Hitler and rid the world of a foul dictator. An honourable and decent man.

329781 ▶▶ Helen, replying to PatrickF, 19, #59 of 1197 🔗

Is Dr. Hugh Montgomery a Malthusian?

Montgomery has been awarded the title of London Leader by the London Sustainable Development Commission for his work in climate change and health under the auspices of Project Genie; he was also a founding member of the UK
November 9th 2020 Global Health Community Gathering to Call for Ambitious Climate & Health Action
https://climateandhealthalliance.org/member/climate-and-health/Nov 5, 2020

Political leaders, medical professionals, civil society leaders and experts on climate and health are calling for COVID-19 responses that integrate health, the economy, biodiversity and climate change, ahead of a global virtual gathering on November 9 aimed at putting health and equity at the center of ambitious climate action.

More evidence this has nothing to do with a virus ?
UK prof of Intensive Care Medicine diagnoses the health of planet Earth – his prognosis is foreboding Think of a patient in Intensive Care. It’s climate change that will “ off us” from planet Earth – on top of what we’re already doing to it – says Dr. Hugh Montgomery.
No 2400 Posted by fw, December 1, 2018
comment image ?w=547&h=169

Re the title of Montgomery’s talk, Health and Climate Change: Query of Febrile Planet – the word ‘ febrile ’ means having or showing the symptoms of a fever . But as Montgomery makes clear, planet Earth is afflicted by so much more than a mere fever. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOIf6yb7q5A
10 mins in Dr Monty

 . https://citizenactionmonitor.wordpress.com/2018/12/01/uk-prof-of-intensive-care-medicine-diagnoses-the-health-of-planet-earth-his-prognosis-is-foreboding/

329914 ▶▶▶ LMS2, replying to Helen, 2, #60 of 1197 🔗

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/amazing-earth-satellite-images-from-2019

Images from 2019.
They don’t look like that one supposedly from 2013.

329969 ▶▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to LMS2, 3, #61 of 1197 🔗

the 2013 looks like the USA superimposed onto the Moon.

329956 ▶▶▶ J4mes, replying to Helen, 7, #62 of 1197 🔗

And the BBC just happened upon this man at random…

330672 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Helen, 1, #63 of 1197 🔗

Bill Gates was telling us years ago that we needed to get rid of the people if we want to save the planet. It seems Bill’s plans are now coming to fruition.

329926 ▶▶ Teebs, replying to PatrickF, 14, #64 of 1197 🔗

“Whole families wiped out”, and the excuse-for-a-journalist at the Beeb did not bother following up to ask for details of such catastrophic tragedy?

329770 Rupert the Bear, replying to Rupert the Bear, 15, #65 of 1197 🔗

Lockdown = Remoaners Revenge?

329885 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Rupert the Bear, 9, #66 of 1197 🔗

Mr Bart and I have long thought of that given the most pro-lockdown people we’ve noticed are also remainers.

330479 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #67 of 1197 🔗

I hate to burst your bubble, but I am (was) a Remainer. Also extremely anti-lockdown. In fact, I just registered (again?) for the site since I haven’t been able to post recently and wanted to reply to you. In the months I’ve been on this site, I’ve seen plenty of other folks from the left here, many of whom I suspect are also Remainers. But I have to admit that the past year has made Brexit look like small potatoes to me. Time to get past the left/right divide unless you, too, are into the divide and conquer game.

330954 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to ConstantBees, #68 of 1197 🔗

Agreed, conservative leaver totally uninterested in Brexit even though it finally happened today.

329906 ▶▶ Dorian_Hawkmoon, replying to Rupert the Bear, 3, #69 of 1197 🔗

Yeah perhaps they will give up on lockdowns now the EU-UK thing is sorted, having failed to deliberately or unconsciously compound the crisis.
Remainer, Covidian, climate catastrophist. It comes as a disaster movie addict box set. ((I did vote remain just but have gone the other way and still think I’m a socialist and Labour isn’t anymore, in case people think I’m caricaturing from the Right)

330073 ▶▶▶ J4mes, replying to Dorian_Hawkmoon, 8, #70 of 1197 🔗

The idea of a left-wing and right-wing rubicon is itself a divide and conquer strategy. It is perfectly normal to have both ‘left-wing’ feelings as well as ‘right-wing’ feelings. It only serves those who wish to control us to identify yourself as one or the other.

330740 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to J4mes, 2, #71 of 1197 🔗

Trying to turn everything into a left vs right argument is a ploy often used by paid trolls. I see it on here occasionally, but the high number of comments makes it more difficult for the trolls. Off-Guardian with less comments suffers proportionately more troll activity.

330373 ▶▶ Andrew K, replying to Rupert the Bear, 1, #72 of 1197 🔗

So how do you explain the locakdown zealots in other countries! Wake up this covid scam has nothing to do with British pilitics it’s a global takeover by the elite.

330749 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Andrew K, 1, #73 of 1197 🔗

Yes, very true. Dwelling on Brexit serves no good purpose and it only deflects attention away from much important matters. I see this point raised on a fairly regular basis and have to wonder whether paid trolls are at work.

329772 ElizaP, replying to ElizaP, 8, #74 of 1197 🔗

Happy thought to start the day with not – the latest Mr/Ms Dark-Eyes wishing us “blood on our hands” – ie Professor Montgomery. Has anyone else thought “Yikes – shades of David Icke – they all seem to have dark eyes (ie all these doom-mongers)”? Perhaps we should have a collective name for them – “The Greys” (ie as per all those diagrams we keep saying of ?visitors/?alleged visitors from space).

329778 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to ElizaP, 2, #75 of 1197 🔗

I called them Midwich Cuckoos yesterday, but I think the Midwich Cuckoos had golden eyes. Perhaps the “dark eyes” are contact lenses.

329785 ▶▶▶ ElizaP, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 3, #76 of 1197 🔗

LOL – sounds like I’m not the only one that’s thought “There do seem to be quite a few of these characters with dark eyes – not normal ones”. Now trying to recall if any of these characters wear glasses ….thinks….off for a check of Bill Gates videos…

329854 ▶▶▶▶ Marialta, replying to ElizaP, 2, #77 of 1197 🔗

Anyone seen the outstanding but very violent series Locked Up’ set in Cruz del Sur Spanish women’s prison? In the early seasons the perfect villain is the prison doctor Sandoval. He has exquisite dark shadows round his eyes eyes and performs perverted cruelties on the inmates.

329823 ▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 1, #78 of 1197 🔗

Maybe the mRNA vaccines will get everybody pregnant?

329916 ▶▶ Dorian_Hawkmoon, replying to ElizaP, 2, #79 of 1197 🔗

Scary man.

329775 TC, replying to TC, 27, #80 of 1197 🔗

It might be nice for the New Year if our Prime Muppet quoted less Latin and learned some relevant science.
Overpromise and underdeliver? He’s a living template for the concept.
Still,we carry on and it was good to see the LS website visited by so many new visitors.
If any newcomers are reading this then a Happy New Year and above all else welcome to a most helpful site.
(They can’t all be in the 77th!).

329786 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to TC, 15, #81 of 1197 🔗

“Prime Muppet” – brilliant.

329806 ▶▶ Skippy, replying to TC, 2, #82 of 1197 🔗

The Priapic macaque has never learned anything.

329821 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to TC, 2, #83 of 1197 🔗

Prime Sinister? That’s not original – I got it from a Kiwi person.

330458 ▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to Londo Mollari, 1, #84 of 1197 🔗

Yes, Sinister Prime Minister

329941 ▶▶ jos, replying to TC, 19, #85 of 1197 🔗

I wish I’d found this site back in the dark days of spring when I was trying to tell people this wasn’t normal – after years of really bad flu years this really didn’t seem so bad and the worst figures were all from places which had very high pollution levels.. the response seemed out of all proportion. But it was an almost immediate knee-jerk reaction for people to turn on anyone who didn’t go along with the accepted narrative- as I’m sure a lot of you know it was a lonely place. The strange thing is how many people still can’t believe it’s a scamdemic even though the evidence isn’t hard to find and the main reason they can’t is that they don’t get why the government would allow the trashing of our economy- I hope that whatever else this year brings, it will reveal the answer to the ‘Why?’

330044 ▶▶▶ Wilko, replying to jos, 5, #86 of 1197 🔗

Apparently the last bad flu year in the UK was 2017 -2018…50000 excess deaths. The last two pre Covid 19 were mild, hence more elderly people around the get Covid 19 badly.

330201 ▶▶▶▶ Wolver, replying to Wilko, 3, #87 of 1197 🔗

https://www.bmj.com/content/361/bmj.k2795/rr-6

Government accused of inflating the numbers then as well. History really does repeat itself.

330341 ▶▶▶▶ Ken Gardner, replying to Wilko, 3, #88 of 1197 🔗

Yes lots of dry tinder as Ivor Cummins would put it – or low hanging fruit is another expression used…

330077 ▶▶ J4mes, replying to TC, 3, #89 of 1197 🔗

I hear he is doing lots of PR crap lately with his wife and baby to endear the population. I can’t verify this because I gladly do not have a TV licence.

329779 Laurence, replying to Laurence, 22, #90 of 1197 🔗

Happy new year.

Looking at the critical care stats for 27 December in more detail:

London occupancy rate was 87.1% in 2020 compared to 88.1% in 2017.

National occupancy was 74.7% compared to 88.1%.

Now, even taking the absolute numbers nationally, there were 3,430 beds occupied on 27.12.20 compared to 3,029 on 27.12.17. If you adjust the number for the increase in the population of over 70s (the vast majority of patients), you get 3,272 for December 27 2017. So an increase of just under 5% in 2020 – not bad for the darkest days of the ‘second wave’ of a ‘pandemic’.

Maybe the problem is with the management of the NHS, not all these selfish taxpayers getting ill and hoping to be looked after. It would be as tragic but not as pathetic if we hadn’t seen it all before in 2017/18.

329782 ▶▶ Laurence, replying to Laurence, 23, #91 of 1197 🔗

Just to add that there are an estimated 10% staff absences in the NHS, many of which will be people who have tested positive but are not sick, may not even have COVID, and then there is the ridiculous situation with the nurses referred to above.

329784 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Laurence, 30, #92 of 1197 🔗

It was interesting that one of the points Sir Desmond Swayne made was that we need an independent panel cross checking and reviewing all the facts, claims and policies on this virus hoo-haa. In theory the House of Lords and the Parliamentary Health committee should be doing this but have proved to be ineffective in this role.
That Uberfuhrer Johnson and Gruppenfuhrer Hancock have not seen the need for such a cross check and put something in place just indicates their enthusiasm to move to a totalitarian state.

329791 ▶▶▶ Laurence, replying to Steve Martindale, 13, #93 of 1197 🔗

Absolutely – just listened to him. This would not be a difficult thing to do, but having heard some of the top statisticians and corresponded with one they seem to be using statistics, as Andrew Lang says: “ as a drunken man uses lampposts—for support rather than illumination”

330590 ▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #94 of 1197 🔗

I have always thought they needed a blue team and a red team to argue their respective cases so that the decision makers would have distance and perspective, although given the quality of our leaders it probably wouldn’t have made the slightest difference.

329918 ▶▶ Janice, replying to Laurence, 6, #95 of 1197 🔗

They have also removed beds to adhere to social distancing rules. I would think this would also make it appear that there are more people in intensive care than normal.

329946 ▶▶▶ Teebs, replying to Janice, 5, #96 of 1197 🔗

Seriously? I have never been in a hospital where beds are less than a metre or 2 apart, and even further in ICU due to all the equipment!

330509 ▶▶▶▶ Janice, replying to Teebs, 1, #97 of 1197 🔗

Update from Senior Doctor LS 23rd December. Explaining new colour coding of beds and estimates 9 percent less beds due to social distancing this year compared to last.

330012 ▶▶▶ Dodderydude, replying to Janice, 6, #98 of 1197 🔗

No, that can’t possibly be true. 🙂 According to junior doctor Yousef Eltuhamy’s tweet on 28 December, to cope with his ‘overwhelmed’ IC Unit in London “We’ve squeezed patients between each other”. Yep, I’m sure you have. And I came down with the last shower.

330350 ▶▶▶ Ken Gardner, replying to Janice, 1, #99 of 1197 🔗

Yes I read that too… on the BBC website no less. So it must be true!

329925 ▶▶ Dorian_Hawkmoon, replying to Laurence, 3, #100 of 1197 🔗

I am struggling with the meaning of the ‘leaked’ to HSJ ITU occupancy of Monday which shows sudden 112/113% for London/SE in relation to these figures. The Spectator graph shows occupancy still within capacity. Confused.

329780 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 52, #101 of 1197 🔗

How lovely that Toby has featured Fred’s moving and eloquent post from yesterday.

329812 ▶▶ TJN, replying to kh1485, 14, #102 of 1197 🔗

Yes, I was thinking that too. Might send it to my MP.

I don’t know if many people recall, but back in late May he penned for this site an excellent piece on the UK’s approach to the 1957-8 Asian Flu Pandemic, and compared the reaction then with that of today.

https://lockdownsceptics.org/from-stoicism-to-hysteria-uk-pandemic-responses-a-historical-context/

He wrote anonymously back then, I think because he was still working in academia. But after he left his post he ‘came out’. Good on him – he should be proud of that piece of work. It was greatly influential on my thinking at the time – an odd time looking back, as by then it seemed the shitshow had already gone on far too long and the empirical evidence was already vastly unfavourable towards lockdowns; but which now seems early days in a struggle that has got far worse and more sinister.

One of the many failures in our response to covid is that we’ve failed to seek out and understand the lessons of history. Another form of hubris in my view, and even the sign of a fundamental rot at the heart of our culture – the assumption that we are so clever and superior today we have no need to learn lessons from other societies.

A culture that is seeking to avoid and ignore its history is one seeking to be fundamentally dishonest with itself.

329836 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to TJN, 14, #103 of 1197 🔗

Agree TJN. I was thinking of sending to my MP also but I know what the response will be. Mind you, it may prick her conscience, if she has one.

I think the trouble is also is that education has been dumbed down over many, many decades. My own (comprehensive) education was woeful. The sad thing is, I actually wanted to learn but was prevented from doing so by those who sought to destroy lessons. It was only when we had a change in circumstances and my mum was able to afford to pay for my education that I had a chance to really learn, and learn from the most gifted teachers who had a real passion for their subjects. Unfortunately, I was playing catch-up and had to cram several years of minimal learning into just a couple of years.

One of the many reasons I love this site (I usually steer well clear of social media) is that I have learned so much. Indeed, I have had a re-look at Cromwell, thanks to you! And being a lover of poetry, I have very much appreciated being introduced to new poems which have greatly helped me during the horror.

329849 ▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to kh1485, #104 of 1197 🔗

Put it in a letter and not an email?

329855 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to PastImperfect, #105 of 1197 🔗

Are letters treated differently?

329858 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to kh1485, 10, #106 of 1197 🔗

I went to a grammar school, but to tell the ruth the teaching was fairly indifferent. Most of what I’ve learnt I’ve taught myself since leaving school.

I’ve always struggled with poetry, until one day I stumbled across Emily Bronte. I’ve posted this poem on here before, but on a day of resolutions it seems so apposite I’ll post again:

Riches I hold in light esteem

And Love I laugh to scorn

And lust of Fame was but a dream

That vanished with the morn–

And if I pray, the only prayer

That moves my lips for me

Is–’Leave the heart that now I bear

And give me liberty.’

Yes, as my swift days near their goal

‘Tis all that I implore

Through life and death, a chainless soul

With courage to endure!

329965 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to TJN, 2, #107 of 1197 🔗

Update: have sent it to my MP. Who almost certainly won’t look at it as he’s too busy on his extramural legal duties. (Half a million quid a year – nice work if you can get it.)

330956 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to TJN, #108 of 1197 🔗

thank you for that link, half hour well spent.

329870 ▶▶ Stephanos, replying to kh1485, 5, #109 of 1197 🔗

I agree kh1485. Like several people below I thought of sending it to my MP with a covering note that this is the effect of the policies for which he voted.
It is an abuse of language (Dante had some harsh penalties for those who misused words) to say that all of this has been caused by the virus. It is our response to the virus that is to blame and few in authority have questioned that response, Sir Desmond Swayne prominent amongst them.
But to return to the matter of forwarding the article.
I have long wished to represent to both Archbishops something about their criminally negligent response to this crisis, but I am not sure that anything I say will make any difference whatsoever. This article however, may be very useful, especially at the beginning of what will be a terrible year.
I think that the article could be formatted better, put into paragraphs would be my suggestion, but that is a very minor criticism.

329788 danny, replying to danny, 28, #110 of 1197 🔗

A very trivial point, but Boris can’t even be bothered to use the full names of his scientific overlords now. The speech yesterday was full of references to JVT, making it all sound very collegiate and chummy, in the midst of telling people they will are now prisoners in their own homes.

329797 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to danny, 19, #111 of 1197 🔗

Indeed. Yet more dumbing down – the continuation of the “Call me Tony … ” era.

I refuse to call him “Boris” which confers on him a cuddliness that was clearly all part of the act to get him elected. This year I have called him (when being polite) by his full and proper name: Alexander Johnson.

329799 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to kh1485, 8, #112 of 1197 🔗

You’re forgetting Ppffiffel

329808 ▶▶▶▶ chaos, replying to karenovirus, 6, #113 of 1197 🔗

You are forgetting Kemal. Stanley might claim he is as much French as he is English. But he neglects to mention the Turkish side of his family. Stanley’s father Osman Kemal changed the family surname to Johnson to sound more British. Not unlike how the Royals changed their name to Windsor or Ralph Lifshitz bcame Ralph Lauren. Incidentally, Osman’s father Ali Kemal – a Turkish journalist and politician (and muslim) – was put to death in Turkey for treachery.

330493 ▶▶▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to chaos, 1, #114 of 1197 🔗

As well as many actors and actresse from the history of film. Example: Cary Grant was born Archibald Alexander Leach on January 18, 1904 in Horfield, Bristol, England, to Elsie Maria (Kingdon) and Elias James Leach, who worked in a factory. His early years in Bristol would have been an ordinary lower-middle-class childhood, except for one extraordinary event.

329805 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to kh1485, 7, #115 of 1197 🔗

I just call him Liar Johnson.

329824 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to kh1485, 17, #116 of 1197 🔗

Is and always will be Pig Dictator

330491 ▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to kh1485, #117 of 1197 🔗

You forgot the Turkish bits.

329798 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to danny, 5, #118 of 1197 🔗

I never watch or listen to bozo, he gets remarkably little airtime on R4.

329816 ▶▶ Annie, replying to danny, 2, #119 of 1197 🔗

Call me Killer. Call me Tyrant.. Call me Fascist.

329981 ▶▶ jonathan Palmer, replying to danny, 1, #120 of 1197 🔗

The other day the other medical expert referred to JVT in the press conference.creepy,Anyone remember Uncle Joe,Stalin.

330497 ▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to jonathan Palmer, 1, #121 of 1197 🔗

Creepy Joe Stalin. Now we have Creepy Joe Biden. Beijing Biden to his friends.

329789 Helen, 5, #122 of 1197 🔗

Hysterical ICU Prof Hugh Edward Montgomery at University College London (UCL) and director of the Centre for Human Health and Performance at University College London . Montgomery has been awarded the title of London Leader by the London Sustainable Development Commission for his work in climate change and health under the auspices of Project Genie; he was also a founding member of the UK Climate and Health Council.

UK Climate and Health Council ========. The Global World Health Alliance

https://climateandhealthalliance.org/about/members/The Global World Health Alliance

November 9th 2020 Global Health Community Gathering to Call for Ambitious Climate & Health Action. Nov 5, 2020 November 9th event – Race to Zero Dialogue on Climate & Health – to put health and equity at center of ambitious climate action; COVID-19 a wake up call for greater threats, such as climate change, says Dr Tedros, WHO Director General
Global, 5th November 2020:- Political leaders, medical professionals, civil society leaders and experts on climate and health are calling for COVID-19 responses that integrate health, the economy, biodiversity and climate change, ahead of a global virtual gathering on November 9 aimed at putting health and equity at the center of ambitious climate action.
The Race to Zero Dialogue on Climate & Health will bring together local, national and global leaders, health and climate experts, scientists and civil society to explore how a healthy, equitable recovery from COVID-19 can drive rapid decarbonization of the world economy, and will herald the launch of a series of ambitious initiatives to transform energy, transportation, health systems and finance to deliver a healthy, sustainable, and climate stable future. The Race To Zero Dialogue on Climate & Health marks day one of the Race To Zero November Dialogues , a series of cross-cutting events running from 9-19 November, featuring a focus topic over each 24 hour period.

Listen to Prof Climate Health Hysteria from 10 mins

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOIf6yb7q5A

329790 Helen, replying to Helen, 4, #123 of 1197 🔗

The Global World Health Alliance

And Prof Montgomery

Hugh Edward Montgomery is professor of Intensive Care Medicine at University College London (UCL) and director of the Centre for Human Health and Performance at University College London . Montgomery has been awarded the title of London Leader by the London Sustainable Development Commission for his work in climate change and health under the auspices of Project Genie; he was also a founding member of the

UK Climate and Health Council=========== The Global World Health Alliance

329795 ▶▶ Helen, replying to Helen, 5, #124 of 1197 🔗

Health and Climate Change: A Febrile Planet? 5,713 views 8 Nov 2018

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOIf6yb7q5A

Listen to Prof Montgomery from 10 mins..Climate Hysteria

329802 ▶▶▶ Helen, replying to Helen, 4, #125 of 1197 🔗

November 9th Global Health Community Gathering to Call for Ambitious Climate & Health ActionNov 5, 2020
November 9th event – Race to Zero Dialogue on Climate & Health – to put health and equity at center of ambitious climate action; COVID-19 a wake up call for greater threats, such as climate change, says Dr Tedros, WHO Director General
Global, 5th November 2020:- Political leaders, medical professionals, civil society leaders and experts on climate and health are calling for COVID-19 responses that integrate health, the economy, biodiversity and climate change, ahead of a global virtual gathering on November 9 aimed at putting health and equity at the center of ambitious climate action.
The Race to Zero Dialogue on Climate & Health will bring together local, national and global leaders, health and climate experts, scientists and civil society to explore how a healthy, equitable recovery from COVID-19 can drive rapid decarbonization of the world economy, and will herald the launch of a series of ambitious initiatives to transform energy, transportation, health systems and finance to deliver a healthy, sustainable, and climate stable future. The Race To Zero Dialogue on Climate & Health marks day one of the Race To Zero November Dialogues , a series of cross-cutting events running from 9-19 November, featuring a focus topic over each 24 hour period.
In many ways, this is a wake up call for potentially even greater threats, especially those posed by climate change”, said Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus , Director General of the World Health Organization (WHO), who will speak at the keynote opening event . “The leaders of island nations and other vulnerable countries have been very clear: the decisions we make this year will determine whether their children will still have a place they can call home. To win this race, we need everyone on board. And the health community has a key role to play.”

Among the speakers for the event’s Climate & Health Keynote Opening are Frank Bainimarama , Prime Minister of Fiji, Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus , Director General of the World Health Organization (WHO), Patricia Espinosa , Executive Secretary of the UNFCCC , H.E. Sheikh Hasina, Hon. Prime Minister of the People’s Republic of Bangladesh and Chair of Climate Vulnerable Forum , Sergio Costa , Italy’s Minister of the Environment, Teresa Ribera , Minister for the Ecological Transition, Spain, Francesco La Camera , Director-General of the International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA), Dr Richard Smith , UK Alliance on Health and Climate Change, Dr Maria Neira , Director of the Environment, Climate Change and Health Department at WHO and Sir Simon Stevens , Chief Executive Officer, NHS England. For a full speaker list for all events.

https://climateandhealthalliance.org/press-releases/global-climate-and-health-event-to-put-health-and-equity-at-center-of-ambitious-climate-action/

329958 ▶▶▶▶ TyRade, replying to Helen, #126 of 1197 🔗
  1. PJ O’Rourke, in his more testicular days – noted that ‘the Arabs invented zero, and live it every day’.
  2. Prime minister of Fiji Bainimarama… I wonder if he has a backing group?
330468 ▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to Helen, #127 of 1197 🔗

High end Change Agent.

329794 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 19, #128 of 1197 🔗

Look at this wonderful scientist talking about being silenced, due to politics. Grateful she spoke out. Could Toby interview her?

329852 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Country Mumkin, 7, #129 of 1197 🔗

This is awful. She has always had a rather modest tone in discusing her research. She seems to have been severely bullied by the medical establishment incl SAGE associates.Shame.

329940 ▶▶ Dorian_Hawkmoon, replying to Country Mumkin, 5, #130 of 1197 🔗

Gosh. I recall citing her paper some time back. She is in Glasgow I think. Sad to hear she has had the Gestapo round.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.27.20081893v3

330125 ▶▶ JanMasarykMunich, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #131 of 1197 🔗

I recall that she was recently promising some ‘good news’. Obviously, not welcome for some.

The censorship is being ratcheted up.

330499 ▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #132 of 1197 🔗

James Delingpole should interview her.

329796 karenovirus, 10, #133 of 1197 🔗

Just before midnight last night I heard a couple of solitary rockets going off but at the very stroke the night erupted with fireworks that looked quite spectacular from my third story window.
I had always assumed that the larger displays came from pub gardens.

Various displays from near and far went on for 7 or 8 minutes but at about 10 past a second wave erupted from different locations. I took these to be by people who had bought fireworks but thought they should not use them.
They died down by about 12.30 and I would guess that the spectacle was at least as big as usual.

329800 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 10, #134 of 1197 🔗

Here comes the vaccine resistant mutation ….

https://mobile.twitter.com/SusanMichie/status/1344908349666709504

2021 will be shit. Sorry for negativity, but it just will!

329804 ▶▶ Felice, replying to Country Mumkin, 3, #135 of 1197 🔗

That’s what I said to my family last night. It’s going to get worse but hopefully, we will reach the final low by the summer.

329809 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Felice, 3, #136 of 1197 🔗

Yes Felice, let’s hope peak low is summer.

I think being mentally prepared and aware is helpful. At least we know what’s coming…

329819 ▶▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Country Mumkin, 4, #137 of 1197 🔗

I’ve prepared myself mentally for it to last 10 years

329898 ▶▶▶▶▶ ElizaP, replying to Cecil B, 3, #138 of 1197 🔗

I only wish I knew exactly how long the Madness is going to last and I could compare with my own estimated remainder-of-lifespan. I’m due for an estimated 15 years to come and, if I thought the Madness was going to last another 10 years (on top of the 9 months we’ve already had) a cost/benefit analysis would indicate it’s not worth hanging on for the sake of a Normal 5 years at the end of my estimated lifespan (but having had to go through 11 years of misery before I got Normal back again). Resulting conclusion = might as well turn up at Heavens Gate a probable 15 years early.

329910 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to ElizaP, 4, #139 of 1197 🔗

My guess is that Sceptics, with their active, enquiring and independent minds, and hunger for life, will enjoy longer than the average lifespan.

329960 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to ElizaP, 1, #140 of 1197 🔗

Heaven is in tier four and closed

330503 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to ElizaP, #141 of 1197 🔗

Subvert the Subversives, said Mark Windows. Give them a taste of their own medicine.

329813 ▶▶▶ FerdIII, replying to Felice, 11, #142 of 1197 🔗

Summer when? 2025? They will just keep changing the ‘message’, keep the data fraud rolling, make up lurid Grimm fairly tales (CV mutates into a wolf etc), arrest anti-vaxxers, anti-LDowners’, criminalise dissent. The sheeple will bleat their happiness with it all. SAGE, short for Stupid, have messaged that spring 2022 at the earliest to remove LDs and face diapers. What these idiots hope to gain from a Great Reset is hard to fathom. Walking dead political-economies are hardly the engines of anything. As I told work friends, get yourself liquid, have a plan B ie to flee the dystopia to somewhere sane, like say Belarus.

329817 ▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Felice, #143 of 1197 🔗

By summer maybe, but which year?

329901 ▶▶▶▶ Felice, replying to Londo Mollari, 1, #144 of 1197 🔗

I thought that, but did not say it, as my daughter is depressed enough as it is. I just wanted her to be prepared for more sh*t over the next few months.

330501 ▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to Felice, #145 of 1197 🔗

Don’t wait for them, make them change for the good of all of us.

329814 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Country Mumkin, #146 of 1197 🔗

Michie asks a very fair question there.

329820 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to TJN, 9, #147 of 1197 🔗

It is. One for a private meeting. They’re both on Sage.

Public discussion makes people scared and enables them to see the public’s reaction; helpful if you’re a behavioural scientist.

If you were well-managing a real pandemic with the objective of keeping everyone calm and reassured; you’d keep questions like that private.

The upside is we get to see the strategy, but I’m not keen on the gaslighting if that’s what behavioural science is.

329842 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Country Mumkin, 12, #149 of 1197 🔗

That is a truly horrific document. Looks as if mandatory face masks everywhere, even outside, are on the way.

Does no one in Government, or even the Civil Service, recognise that SAGE are evil and have to be stopped?

329904 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ElizaP, replying to TJN, 2, #150 of 1197 🔗

I saw picked-out points from it in a newspaper article and how it included possible face-masking in “crowded outdoor areas”. At which point I thought – one could only call any street in the remote little town I live in now “crowded” for regular community social events totalling 2-4 days a year (held in Normal Times – but haven’t happened since Lockdown was introduced) and therefore no-one could possibly plead the streets of our town ever get crowded other than for that literally few hours per year (in Normal Times).

329907 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Felice, replying to ElizaP, 6, #151 of 1197 🔗

So many people in our town wear them outside already. They won’t complain.

329968 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to ElizaP, 4, #152 of 1197 🔗

This goes on and on on and on until, one way or another, they are stopped.

We’ll all be buried in face masks if they get their way.

329905 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Felice, replying to TJN, 2, #153 of 1197 🔗

Better make sure you’ve got your sunshine lanyard before they become unavailable.

329913 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Felice, 4, #154 of 1197 🔗

Haven’t got one one! Anyone wants to have a go at me for lack of muzzle they’ll get a sharp unequivocal response.

329924 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to TJN, 5, #155 of 1197 🔗

Even outside and they also make mention of face masks at home.

Insane.

329955 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Teebs, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 4, #156 of 1197 🔗

I believe face masks have been mandatory at home in Spain for some time now. Heaven only knows how such a farce-law can be enforced.

330045 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Teebs, 1, #157 of 1197 🔗

If they are mandatory at home. Surely people must be waking up?

330161 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ robnicholson, replying to Teebs, 2, #158 of 1197 🔗

Well considering that many infections are passed in the home because of close contact for extended periods, I can see there thinking. Flawed though. In fact, “Stay at home” should be “Go outside as much as you can”

330056 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #159 of 1197 🔗

I’m concerned they will start the programme to remove people from their homes for isolation purposes. I think this document is “Pre-symptomatic” of this.

329978 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ jonathan Palmer, replying to TJN, 3, #160 of 1197 🔗

No,because Sage are doing the Governments bidding.If they wanted them to stop their pronouncements,it would be easy because they are public servants.The fact they have not shows they are saying what the government want them to.

330158 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ robnicholson, replying to TJN, 2, #161 of 1197 🔗

I am reminded of the phrase “Knows the cost of everything but the value of nothing” – have I got that right?

330173 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ mj, replying to robnicholson, #162 of 1197 🔗

“Cecil Graham: What is a cynic? Lord Darlington: A man who knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing. Cecil Graham: And a sentimentalist, my dear Darlington, is a man who sees an absurd value in everything and doesn’t know the market price of any single thing.” ― Oscar Wilde, Lady Windermere’s Fan

330649 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to robnicholson, 1, #163 of 1197 🔗

I’ve come to the conclusion that SAGE don’t know anything about anything except their self-advancement.

329900 ▶▶▶▶▶ Felice, replying to Country Mumkin, 4, #164 of 1197 🔗

That is a truly depressing document.
They’re out of control.

330474 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to Felice, #165 of 1197 🔗

Fad Gadget Plainclothes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyCyGUOkHZ0&list=PLC035709EBCD1A712&index=36
They’re out of control …

329922 ▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Country Mumkin, 8, #166 of 1197 🔗

This is ridiculous and tells me they live a different reality to mine :
“Communicating with and supporting all sectors of the population to improve their adherence to mitigation measures

• Provide positive feedback about a) the great efforts people are making to control the virus, b) the
success of these efforts in helping to reduce infection rates and c) the need to now increase these
efforts in order to sufficiently control the new variant”

How can you congratulate people for controlling the virus when, by SAGEs own golden measurement of PCR, they’ve completely failed to do that. Wasn’t this supposed to be over by now? Jesus. It’s Orwellian doublethink

330043 ▶▶▶▶▶ Freddy Boy, replying to Country Mumkin, 5, #167 of 1197 🔗

Truly depressing !! It proves that this attack on life as we know/ knew it , is going to continue !!.. Michie is a full blown Communist , the fact that she is any where near the government tells us that we are actually in a War without bullets ( yet ) !!..

330427 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to TJN, 1, #168 of 1197 🔗

Susan Takingthe* is a behavioural scientist.
Bound to be an agenda!

329970 ▶▶ Teebs, replying to Country Mumkin, 3, #169 of 1197 🔗

I have believed it for some time: 2021 will be an awful year.

It will be a year of conflict, politically, legally and perhaps even physically on the streets, as the legacy of covidmania reaps what it has sowed.

I think it is only a matter of time – weeks or months – when someone who has been vaccinated dies of the virus, and remember they are prioritising the most vulnerable and, also, just in case people forget: we are all mortal.

We will then see calls repeated to maintain and perhaps even intensify the same repressive measures, on top of and regardless of the vaccine.

At the same time, the enormous cost to lives and livelihoods of this mania will continue to bite. Both sides of the argument will become more entrenched and the space for rational thought – already vanishing – will go altogether.

The only glimmer of hope I see is the general election in Germany in August this year. If enough anti-covidmania votes are cast and a new government comes in, opposed to this madness, then the cast will be broken.

330140 ▶▶▶ JanMasarykMunich, replying to Teebs, #170 of 1197 🔗

Sorry. I don’t believe there is any chance of any decent government emerging in Germany. We have to look somewhere else for hope.

329801 chaos, replying to chaos, 25, #171 of 1197 🔗

There was something missing from the BBC firework display. Alongside the black lives matter fist and Africa turtle.. I would have liked to have seen the image of a transgender with both breasts and a penis or Gillette razor and a vagina as a tribute to our transgender she hes he shes. Perhaps the black lives matter fist could then have fisted the newly created vagina as a symbol of our sexual equality and broad-mindedness. Also the voiceover should have been done by Meghan and Harry or Gary Linekar.

329803 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to chaos, 14, #172 of 1197 🔗

If they’re so bloody bothered about the planet, then surely they should have no fireworks at all. Or are they special ‘eco’ ones.

329908 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to kh1485, 6, #173 of 1197 🔗

If you thought Covid made it clear it’s one rule for them and another for us, the climate change solutions will be so overtly elitist as to make it clear they don’t care that its known

330034 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 5, #174 of 1197 🔗

The environment is only a smokescreen for this lot. If they were seriously concerned about the planet, they would have been making noise about the masks and other PPE that are harming wildlife and making their way into the oceans.

330035 ▶▶▶ Richy_m_99, replying to kh1485, 3, #175 of 1197 🔗

I was surprised, when I visited Shanghai a couple of years ago, that firework displays were banned in the major cities because they added to already problematic air quality issues. From the culture that invented them.

329810 ▶▶ mj, replying to chaos, 3, #176 of 1197 🔗

i think that’s the plot of a new Channel 4 show this year

329811 chaos, replying to chaos, 9, #177 of 1197 🔗

Ken Livingstone continues: “The Telegraph had a picture of him (Boris) standing in front of his desk after his fifth anniversary of being mayor. My shock was that he hadn’t moved a single thing. The desk was exactly as I left it the day I walked out; he hadn’t even moved the pot I kept my pens and pencils in. Everything was the same. It just suggested to me that, while Boris blusters in, it’s the minions who are keeping things ticking over. The deputies won’t set a new agenda, that’s the mayor’s job. If the mayor won’t do it, nothing happens.”

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/04/ken-livingstone-boris-lazy-tosser-who-just-wants-be-there

329831 ▶▶ alw, replying to chaos, 2, #178 of 1197 🔗

Is this the same Ken Livingstone I see shopping in my local Waitrose, but then complaining that he is a poor pensioner. He must be receiving at least three goldplated pensions. Pass the sick bag.

329815 Basileus, 5, #179 of 1197 🔗

This French documentary summarises the whole Civid scam.

There have been 6 million views for the French version. This version has a (rather lumpy) english soundtrack.

https://www.facebook.com/MrVpage/videos/3885729271478336/

329818 FerdIII, replying to FerdIII, 26, #180 of 1197 🔗

2021 is going to be just as bad as 2020,

-Doris says ‘April’ for normality. Earliest estimate maybe Summer but that won’t happen logistically, forget Easter, forget the Summer you are well into 2022 for these morons to vaxx the sheep

-SAGE short for Stupid and some of its preening corrupt peacocks like Vallance, state Spring 2022 for diapers, LDs, regardless of the vaxx

-Stupid says they want 70% of the pop vaxx’d (the herd story) with 70% effectiveness (no idea what they mean by that) https://inews.co.uk/news/health/sage-scientist-uk-herd-immunity-covid-vaccine-programme-summer-809803 , neither is reached until 2022

-Pfizer’s 53 page report clearly states that its magic poison does not stop transmission but (data fraud) is 95% effective in reducing symptoms. So how can a Vaxx lead to ‘normality’? Where is the data that it stops a spread?

-The goalposts will continue to move in 2021. They need to manufacture more death porn and data fraud. Fake News will comply. This is a Fake News wet dream – end of the world, each and every day.

-Massive CV industry – lots of half wits making millions from CV budgets. Chancellor knickknack subsiding all firms with his magic money tree. That won’t end in 2021 either.

Not a Happy New Year.

329881 ▶▶ Hattie, replying to FerdIII, 3, #181 of 1197 🔗

Did Gates not state it would not be until the end of 2021 until the pandemic is over and we all know what amazing prediction powers this man has. What Bill says Bill gets.

330510 ▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to Hattie, #182 of 1197 🔗

Bullshit! Don’t let him get awaywith it.

329822 Alci, replying to Alci, 10, #183 of 1197 🔗

While the Joe Baron article contains some deliciously acute observations about the calibre of our current MPs, it commits a basic logical fallacy. Just because many in current useless government went to public schools & Oxbridge, doesn’t mean that everyone so educated is equally useless (ain’t that right, Toby).

In my experience of people from that background, it was the second- and third-raters with plenty of parental cash and extreme self-regard that went into politics. The brightest and best were sucked into finance and consulting (plus the professions: law and medicine).

The success of these service industries over the last twenty years has had a huge negative impact by sucking out talent from other areas: government local and national, yes, but also teaching and engineering.

We’re reaping the results of this now, in the utter idiocy and self-serving illogic of the official responses to Covid-19.

Rishi Sunak stands out as an exception, but I’ve come across hundreds like him over the years. Just not in politics. In finance – private equity, investment banks; and management consulting.

The strength of our top institutions should be a matter of pride, not shame.
It’s just a shame that the most talented avoid politics like…like the plague…

329826 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Alci, 8, #184 of 1197 🔗

Interesting post, I’m guessing from first-hand experience.

Hancock seems so dumb I can’t understand how he got into Oxford. I’m not just being wantonly insulting here. Seriously, he just doesn’t seem to have the brains to get into a decent university.

Sunak is an interesting one. But I think he’s too tainted by all this now to form part of the clean sheep we so desperately need.

Incidentally, if our finance brains are so clever why did they not see the 2008 crash coming, as Queenie almost pointed out?

329829 ▶▶▶ jb12, replying to TJN, 2, #185 of 1197 🔗

They didn’t only see it coming, they caused it.

329833 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to jb12, 2, #186 of 1197 🔗

I know. I can honestly say I saw it coming, and I was a mere engineer-scientist. And I can see the next one coming.

330511 ▶▶▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to TJN, #187 of 1197 🔗

We should have quashed this baloney in the middle of summer 2020. We didn’t.

330294 ▶▶▶▶ Sceptical Steve, replying to jb12, #188 of 1197 🔗

My former boss always emphasised that instability was our friend, as no-one makes money when markets are stable. The key to success is being a little bit quicker than everyone else to sense trouble.

329835 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to TJN, 4, #189 of 1197 🔗

I meant ‘clean sheet’ of course, but on reflection maybe ‘clean sheep’ says something deeper.

329845 ▶▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to TJN, 4, #190 of 1197 🔗

I liked it! I thought you were being witty! (That’s ‘witty’ as opposed to ‘Whitty’.)

329843 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to TJN, 6, #191 of 1197 🔗

I’ve often wondered why someone with no medical or scientific qualification (perhaps an ‘A’ level in physics), or experience in the health sector, with only PPE and economics under his belt, comes to be our Secretary of State for Health.

Surely there must have been someone worthier – or does he know where the bodies are buried?

329874 ▶▶▶▶ Hattie, replying to Banjones, 1, #192 of 1197 🔗

I sometimes wonder if it is more than a coincidence that Hancock who was once minister for media in 2018 and overtly pro the fourth industrial revolution is now, as health minister, in a position to facilitate the implementation of this.

329917 ▶▶▶▶ Alan P, replying to Banjones, 2, #193 of 1197 🔗

Doesn’t know about anti-bodies though!

330004 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Banjones, #194 of 1197 🔗

Spahn, the German Health Minister, is a banker.

330521 ▶▶▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to Silke David, #195 of 1197 🔗

Warren Spahn, an American baseball player, was a pitcher.

330622 ▶▶▶▶ Wilko, replying to Banjones, #196 of 1197 🔗

Could have been worse…Professor Hugh Montgomery for instance

330337 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to TJN, 1, #197 of 1197 🔗

That’s what I’ve always thought every time I see an actor open his mouth then what comes out is drivel. When I google said actor’s name and learn that they graduated from Oxford or Cambridge, two questions always come up in my mind:

  1. How did you get into Oxbridge and
  2. How did you pass?

As a friend pointed out not all colleges are created equal so they ended up in colleges that have lower admission standards and many of them did degrees like English or anthropology or sociology. I seriously doubt that many of them would have been good enough to end up in colleges like Balliol, Christ Church, Magdalen…..

329827 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Alci, 9, #198 of 1197 🔗

The brightest and best were sucked into finance and consulting …

Glad that this was your experience, but when I worked in the City, I encountered many who were not dissimilar to the idiots now ‘running’ the country. They rose through the ranks due to patronage and saying the right thing. I encountered many a ‘Matt Hancock’ in my time there – sadly. Their cretinous decisions rarely affected them and, as I said the other day, they would waltz out of the office to the golf course leaving the rest of us to pick up the pieces.

329832 ▶▶▶ Alci, replying to kh1485, 5, #199 of 1197 🔗

Fair. In my experience, private equity, venture capital & consulting are ruthless at weeding out the less capable. The bigger the corporate (inc the big investment banks) the closer it approaches public sector habits in promoting less capable oleaginous schmoozers over the “doers”.

329838 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Alci, #200 of 1197 🔗

Yes, I can imagine. Mine was investment banking in the pensions/charity sector.

329884 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to kh1485, 3, #201 of 1197 🔗

Always remember when the office staff and management at the factory where I worked for over 32 years being treated to a weekend “jolly” for all their “input and contributions” over the previous 12 months.
The shop floor “riff raff” were in the words of young Mr Grace told “You’re doing splendidly, carry on”.
Needless to say that the company went out of business not too long after.
PS : The staff also got an extra day off to do their Christmas shopping.

330525 ▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to kh1485, #202 of 1197 🔗

Matt Hancock: Lazy arrogant nonsense. I borrowed that from something Mark Windows just said on Social Engineers Then and Now.

329825 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 26, #203 of 1197 🔗

Drink last night with mates

One works in the local university hospital as a handyman

‘What’s it like in there’

‘ICU is rammed’

‘Yeah’

‘Well one is, the other one is empty’

‘One is empty? Why?’

‘No staff’

‘What they set up an ICU ward without any staff to operate it?’

Silence

‘So when they announce they are full, they forget to say they have another empty ICU ward?’

Silence

329853 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to Cecil B, 1, #204 of 1197 🔗

That’s why this petition should be shared more widely.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/550598

329876 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Cecil B, 4, #205 of 1197 🔗

Haha. Context is killer. My local hospital chief was being interviewed about capacity in ICU, where there are 8 beds. In the very last sentence she dropped the fact that they could double that to 16 if required.

Well do that then. Why do I need to know this? were my thoughts

329957 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 5, #206 of 1197 🔗

Impossible, they only have 1.7 million staff

330297 ▶▶ Sceptical Steve, replying to Cecil B, 1, #207 of 1197 🔗

I saw that, in the US, the hospitals are playing games with the figures, so that an ICU bed only counts towards a hospital’s capacity if it’s fully staffed. In the same way, I bet that Cecil’s hospital doesn’t count until they roster the staff to man it. At this time of year, with seasonal absenteeism peaking, I’d guess that this won’t be only ICU with the lights turned out. (Having said that, there’s still plenty of unused ICU capacity in my local hospital here in Yorkshire. As of yesterday, the trust reported that the 3 hospitals in the trust only had a total of 10 Covid patients in their ICUs. Thankfully, it appears as though a diet of Yorkshire Tea and Lard has been effective in keeping the new variant at bay!)

330839 ▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to Cecil B, #208 of 1197 🔗

Crickets.

329834 chaos, replying to chaos, 5, #209 of 1197 🔗

Lazy Johnson finds time to write an article.. allowing comments… for now..
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/12/31/still-fighting-devilish-virus-new-year-really-year-change-hope/

Is it normal for a PM to write a column behind a paywall?

329887 ▶▶ mikewaite, replying to chaos, 2, #210 of 1197 🔗

Best place for it

329911 ▶▶▶ Old Bill, replying to mikewaite, 9, #211 of 1197 🔗

Write it behind a prison wall – even better.

330530 ▶▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to Old Bill, #212 of 1197 🔗

On bog roll. For posterity.

330528 ▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to chaos, #213 of 1197 🔗

Is Boris normal?

329837 George Mc, replying to George Mc, 13, #214 of 1197 🔗

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55504450

The shape of things to come. Formerly communal activities are now spectacles arranged by hidden technicians. “Videos of a drone display” The very words “drone display” sum up the air of depressed confinement.

And how chilling this would have sounded last new year:

“However crowds of several hundred people gathered at Edinburgh Castle to see in the new year – despite warnings from police and the government to stay away. People sang and danced before eventually dispersing when several police vans and cars pulled on to the castle esplanade.”

And even the display itself had to impart the same authoritarian message:

“London’s televised display began with a poem which addressed the pandemic: “In the year of 2020 a new virus came our way; We knew what must be done and so to help we hid away.””

“We hid away”. Is that a New Year’s resolution?

And just like those shameless religion bashers who (used to) come round to pester you, our COVID guardians are not shy to rope in the children:

“Light projections lit up the sky over the O2 Arena, including the NHS logo in a heart accompanied by a child’s voice saying: “Thank you NHS heroes”.”

And there’s the nod to permitted protest BLM and Attenborough’s impending climate change genocide. After which I couldn’t stomach any more.

329857 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to George Mc, 25, #215 of 1197 🔗

Among all that nauseating guff, I’m focusing on the “NHS heroes” thing. My father was very much into “Help The Heroes”, a war veterans’ charity. I have nothing but respect for what members of the armed forces do, but I always found that “heroes” angle a bit dodgy. I don’t believe that any soldier would agree with being called a hero. They’re serving, doing their duty, doing their job and staring into the whites of the eyes of some fairly ferocious demons (and I’m not talking about “the enemy”). The recent “hero” cult (and I think it is fairly recent: the remembrance ceremonies always had a different quality and there’s a reason the Cenotaph is called the Cenotaph – it means “empty tomb” and it’s symbolic and depersonalized) has an exploitative, sentimental undercurrent. Which is precisely the ingredient that comes to the fore in the Maoist spectacle of children being made to draw rainbows and warble thanks to “NHS heroes” while their tearful parents nod and clap. It appears that the state is using the contemporary penchant for emotional diarrhoea as fuel for a new, sickly and mawkish post-nationalist identification with public institutions, especially healthcare. Healthcare and politics fuse into a new and very nasty regime.

330054 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, #216 of 1197 🔗

Well said!

330537 ▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 2, #217 of 1197 🔗

It gained momentum after the smoking ban in pubs and cafés in 2007.

329866 ▶▶ Dame Lynet, replying to George Mc, 4, #218 of 1197 🔗

‘George the poet’ apparently.
In a nation famed for superb writers, poets and thinkers going back more than a thousand years that embarrassing doggerel was the best they could muster.

Glad I didn’t bother.

330027 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Dame Lynet, 2, #219 of 1197 🔗

The dumbing down continues apace.

329871 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to George Mc, 2, #220 of 1197 🔗

“In the year of 2020 a new virus came our way; We knew what must be done and so to help we hid away.”

McGonagall is alive and well! Here, in celebration, is his

NEW YEAR’S RESOLUTION TO LEAVE DUNDEE


Welcome! thrice welcome! to the year 1893,

For it is the year I intend to leave Dundee,

Owing to the treatment I receive,

Which does my heart sadly grieve.

Every morning when I go out

The ignorant rabble they do shout

‘There goes Mad McGonagall’

In derisive shouts as loud as they can bawl,

And lifts stones and snowballs, throws them at me;

And such actions are shameful to be heard in the city of Dundee.

And I’m ashamed, kind Christians, to confess

That from the Magistrates I can get no redress.

Therefore I have made up my mind in the year of 1893

To leave the ancient City of Dundee,

Because the citizens and me cannot agree.

The reason why? — because they disrespect me,

Which makes me feel rather discontent.

Therefore to leave them I am bent;

And I will make my arrangements without delay,

And leave Dundee some early day.

330065 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 1, #221 of 1197 🔗

He certainly deserved his notoriety, didn’t he? I like the fact that he didn’t actually CARE!

329880 ▶▶ Julian, replying to George Mc, 1, #222 of 1197 🔗

Life lived vicariously

We’ve been heading that way for a long time, but it has now accelerated hugely

329890 ▶▶ Basics, replying to George Mc, 3, #223 of 1197 🔗

Utterly utterly disgusting.

329839 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 14, #224 of 1197 🔗

Today, Jacob Siegel says this:

‘…as long as everyone fails together, everyone fails upwards. Regime loyalty is the herd immunity of the ruling class, a protection against the consequences of their own failures. This is why the loss in authority that manifests in the “crisis of experts”, while real, doesn’t diminish their power. But it’s also why the regime has to become more ideological and nakedly coercive — for a kingdom of experts without reliable expertise falls back on propaganda and state power.’

https://unherd.com/2020/12/why-americas-elites-keep-on-winning/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups%5B0%5D=18743&tl_period_type=3

Yesterday, Dr Malcolm Kendrick said this:

‘This pandemic is going to be a model for all mass panicking stupidity in the future. Because to do otherwise, would be to admit that we made a pig’s ear of it this time. Far too many powerful reputations at stake to allow that.’

https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/12/30/what-is-left-to-say/

10 million unemployed in the United States, one million unemployed in the United Kingdom, 250 million returned to extreme poverty in the wider world………

There is only so long that the law of unintended consequences can be held at bay in a democracy (however flawed)

What is that faint noise to be heard on the breeze just by the hen house…….

Could it be the early squawks and flutterings of the occupants capricious returnings to the roost?

For return they undoubtedly will, quite possibly accompanied by the ravening fox of revolution.

Make no mistake, sooner or later, the autocracy on display during this weird out will have an equal and opposite reaction across the globe………

329937 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #225 of 1197 🔗

This video might give a parallel insight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyDsjHZHsGc

329840 Les Tricoteuses, replying to Les Tricoteuses, 20, #226 of 1197 🔗

Small steps I know but cancelled TV licence direct debit. Please do the same, the BBC are working for our destruction.

329850 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Les Tricoteuses, 6, #227 of 1197 🔗

Well done, I cancelled mine earlier in the year. Yesterday would have been the day that I would have handed over >£150 of my hard-earned. Felt good to know it was still in my bank account …

329895 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Les Tricoteuses, 2, #228 of 1197 🔗

I’m thinking of cancelling mine when it expires next month. My tv has the i player app pre-installed though and I can’t delete it. Is it just a case of me not watching it and the onus being on any tv licensing officials to prove otherwise?

329915 ▶▶▶ Basileus, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 1, #229 of 1197 🔗

That is my understanding.

330063 ▶▶▶ jb12, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 2, #230 of 1197 🔗

Just ignore them and don’t let them into your house.

330438 ▶▶▶ Ken Gardner, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, #231 of 1197 🔗

You simply make a declaration that you do not watch live TV or use the i-player. That’s it. They issue a confirmation to the effect that you are exempt (unless those circumstances change of course)

330546 ▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, #232 of 1197 🔗

Does it have a PVR attached to the receiver? Any hard drives?

329929 ▶▶ Alan P, replying to Les Tricoteuses, 5, #233 of 1197 🔗

But it gave me the opportunity to fill in a feedback survey. And believe me they got both barrels. It’s working to bring the system down from inside. Then I’ll cancel the fee!

330343 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Les Tricoteuses, #234 of 1197 🔗

Well done!! Defund the BBC!!!

329844 davews, 6, #235 of 1197 🔗

Happy New Year to all, let us hope we can find at least a little to cheer about. One good thing has been the complete absence of double glazing people at the door and no Jehovah’s Witnesses – not seen the couple who pitched up outside our Tesco and railway station for months.

Noticed the item about Southampton University on the main page. That was my Uni over 50 years ago. In 2011 I was there for our 40th anniversary and had a great weekend. Jokingly said that I was looking forward to the 50th reunion. I suspect that will now not take place and even if it did it would be no great celebration. I can’t imagine doing all my engineering course on line, it involved an awful lot of laboratory work. I still regard my three years there as the best three years of my life, today’s students will in years to come view them as their worst.

329851 Banjones, 4, #236 of 1197 🔗

Petition link again – useless of course, except for allowing people to know they’re not alone.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/550598

329856 iane, 4, #237 of 1197 🔗

So, finally, the New Year had dawned; and now it was time for him, HandyFace, to claim his rightful Space!

Oh yes, Bozo The Clown had invented all those simplistic slogans that had the Team fawning all over BTC, but now HandyFace had dreamt up the Final Slogan, to be placed like a rainbow over all the gates protecting the people, now to be HandyFace’s people, in their homes. Yes, this truly was it, “LOCKDOWNS SET YOU FREE!”

329859 DanClarke, 3, #238 of 1197 🔗

Johnson was seen as an ‘optimistic’ character, and put in place to ‘Do Covid’, although he may not have known it at the time, but those who were worried he would ‘Do Brexit’ had to make up the money somehow. So the optimistic ‘promises’ of weeks and months ahead, so far accepted, are now moot

329860 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 5, #239 of 1197 🔗

From Comrade Michie’s prophecy of doom

The SARS-CoV-2 virus is transmitted via direct physical contact, close range aerosols and droplets (greatest risk at less than 2m), longer range fine aerosols (which can pose a risk beyond 2m) and contaminated surfaces.

Although the above is accepted as fact, how do they know?

Is there actually any scientific evidence that proves how people are infected

329909 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Cecil B, 5, #240 of 1197 🔗

Ah, sorry, my mistake, I thought she was a human behavioural scientist, didn’t realise her expertise was virus behaviour

329861 Basics, 5, #241 of 1197 🔗

Edinburgh used for China-style drone show. Council banned traditional world famous fireworks citing gatherings outside are bad. So they put on a drone show. Who could watch it since no one allowed to gather – by their law. The drone show was not for the people of Edinburgh but for the publicity. Not publicity for the tourism industry.

Their new future needs us accepting their drones in our skies. To surveil us – supposedly to deliever to us all the things we need but don’t own and will be happy. What joy or amazement is there in watching a computer choreography program run in the sky? We must ooh and ahh and clap like seals to become accepting of the darker purposes they want to bring in.

I appreciate this sounds like a luddite talking, all those people working in delivery jobs drones will replace. My point isn’t about technological progress. It is the council’s collusion with an international agenda not of their making. To live alongside such disgusting bureaucratic thuggery undemocratically snuffing out customs is deeply repulsive. We will not forgive or forget.

As an aside Edinburgh City Council has been so brave during this pandemic that it has installed at least fifteen white flag poles to the pavements along Princes Street. The flags that are flown are Edinburgh City Council logos. Thats rights, Nazi flags were displayed in everyday life in a similar fashion. We need to be attacked by visual stimulus at every point to remind us who is in charge and our place in the gutter.

Common Purpose is rife in Edinburgh Council, the sleeper cells have awoken in 2020, they have gone beyond their authority. They are beyond Common Purpose.

329863 rose, replying to rose, 1, #242 of 1197 🔗

Where has Rosie gone?

329865 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to rose, 5, #243 of 1197 🔗

On the barge with Jim

329877 ▶▶ l835, replying to rose, 2, #244 of 1197 🔗

Hopefully still about an not detained. She’s an inspiration with her tireless leafleting.

330551 ▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to rose, #245 of 1197 🔗

She sent an email to me this morning. Maybe she’s reading Cider with Rosie by Laurie Lee?

330676 ▶▶ chris c, replying to rose, #246 of 1197 🔗

Maybe this’ll bring her back

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XehUuWLMaOY

329864 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #247 of 1197 🔗

Happy New Year to you all.

Wasn’t going to post today but received this video from the German parliament debate on the covid vaccine:

https://theresistance.video/watch?id=5fec3f8067781a1dd7ce3e5f

330018 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Awkward Git, #248 of 1197 🔗

Hello AG, this is the local parliament for Baden Wuertemberg, not the national.
Fiechtner has been a critic since the beginning and is very vocal (as one can see here).

329868 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #249 of 1197 🔗

New York City. Times Square. The Square famous for New Year celebrations was barricaded by city police and people barred from entering. No one was allowed in. Police questioned at the barricades about their oath to uphold the consitution became mealy-masked sleekit slime and did not reply – they were there to soak up the overtime only.

The lights at Times Square appeared to have a good amount of purple among them. The Rockefeller center ice rink area appeared to have purple lights being dispayed too.

329932 ▶▶ jonathan Palmer, replying to Basics, 8, #250 of 1197 🔗

Trafalgar Square was boarded up last night and part of Parliament Sq.
The London eye had a purple hue.
The uniformity of the language and response worldwide speaks of an guiding hand.

329869 Julian, replying to Julian, 10, #251 of 1197 🔗

Regarding Universities, some of them may well be more closed now, but from what people tell me they have never re-opened in any meaningful way, unlike schools.

Most teaching is online, and sports and social activities are shut down or online. Students are discouraged from visiting campus, and masks are mandatory everywhere.

The government have got a free pass on this, as on so much.

329872 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Julian, 8, #252 of 1197 🔗

Won’t be surprised if some students do decide to drop out and take their chances in paid employment or sue the universities when this is over.

The universities have not covered themselves in glory over the past few years but 2020 was just the nadir.

329882 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #253 of 1197 🔗

I wrote to the one I am connected with via family and got a fairly personal, honest reply from a senior prof there – it wasn’t the reply I wanted to hear, but I did get something back – from this I surmise that hardly anyone has complained – students and parents. People are so apathetic.

329949 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Julian, 3, #254 of 1197 🔗

That doesn’t surprise me. Mr Bart works in a university and they do try their best by their students, me thinks too its down to universities not growing a backbone and fighting back too.

330057 ▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #255 of 1197 🔗

If you think they can’t get any worse, just you wait.

330344 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to jb12, #256 of 1197 🔗

Won’t be surprised if it does and thank God I’m no longer a student or connected with universities.

329873 Ianric, replying to Ianric, 3, #257 of 1197 🔗

Do you feel that governments can get away with draconian restrictions if these restrictions don’t affect a large part of the population but if restrictions affect the majority of or the entire population governments wouldn’t get away with it and face protest? Are people who are unaffected by restrictions unsympathetic to those affected. I will take 2 scenarios and compare with lockdown. I have split my questions into two posts.

Scenario A: The government argues there is huge problem with faulty cars which could cause accidents. The government passes a law making it illegal to drive a car and cars must be sent to centres for repairs which take months. When the cars are returned there are restrictions on what days cars can be driven, how many passengers can go in cars, they can’t be driven after a certain time and there is a national speed limit which is low. This creates problems for the population who live in rural areas where there is limited public transport, amenities are not within walking distance and many have jobs where travelling to their jobs by public transport is not possible and working from home is not possible. Many businesses suffer as they are in locations not accessible by public transport and are not within walking distance for their customers. The car ban is not an issue for people who live in areas where there is good public transport and amenities are within walking distance. Some can work from home or have workplaces easily accessible by public transport. Businesses in location which are served by regular public transport which runs throughout the day and late into the night don’t suffer a lack of trade.  In addition businesses are within walking distances for many of their customers.

Scenario B: The government bans the use of cookers as there is supposedly a danger of fire risk according to the government. Cookers must be sent away for repair for months. When cookers are eventually returned, there are restrictions on what days cookers can be used, they can’t be used after a certain time, temperature settings can’t go above a certain heat, cookers can only be used for a certain length of time and there are restrictions what foods can be placed in cookers. This creates enormous hardship as there very few foods which don’t need cooking. There is a limit what can be cooked in microwaves. Unlike scenario B, the entire population is affected.

In scenario A, do you think the government could get away with it as many people are unaffected by the car ban and restrictions and those unaffected would be have no sympathy with those affected. Do you think the government couldn’t get away with scenario B as it would affect everyone?

329875 ▶▶ Ianric, replying to Ianric, 17, #258 of 1197 🔗

Under lockdown rules, many businesses have been forced to close or operate under restrictions. This has a knock on effect on other businesses. For instance, taxi firms loose trade with no pub goers.   Is it the case that despite business closures, a large proportion of the population are not affected economically as their jobs are secure working in the public sector or businesses unaffected by lockdowns are have benefited from lockdown eg online sellers and supermarkets getting increased trade due to shops closing, takeaways getting extra trade with restaurants closed, firms who sell masks, sanitisers and hand gels etc, supermarkets and online sellers getting increased alcohol sales if pubs and restaurants are closed. Retired people will not be financially affected by lockdown. Do you feel that people who are financially secure will have no sympathy towards those who have lost their jobs and will tolerate restriction such as not being able to see family and friends, not being able to travel and engage in leisure activities? Does this enable the government to get away with imposing lockdowns? If everyone suffered a financial loss due to lockdown, would lockdowns be tolerated and would be harder to impose.  Do people who are financially secure fail to see the destruction of society happening around them? My father is retired on a good pension. He criticised a gym owner who opened in defiance of lockdown rules and my mother said gyms are places where infection spreads easily. My father couldn’t understand people opening their businesses as they had to make a living.

329920 ▶▶▶ ElizaP, replying to Ianric, 16, #259 of 1197 🔗

We’re not all in the same boat of “My income is okay – so I’m alright Jack” attitudes. I’m very thankful my own income is pension – but I run a local anti-Lockdown Facebook group – because I can see how lots of other people are being badly affected by things like loss of income and I myself am not safe from effects on my own life (ie my missing social life – and I live on my own and need that social life – but everything is cancelled or not anything like the same as Normal).

329942 ▶▶▶▶ Alan P, replying to ElizaP, 15, #260 of 1197 🔗

Like you my income is a private pension and I bitterly resent and loathe all that is being done wrt the crazy, hysteria driven response to a coronavirus. Stop tarring us pensioners all with the same brush is my cry. I’ll join with you at the barricades (or tearing them down more appropriately).

329977 ▶▶▶▶ Stephanos, replying to ElizaP, 6, #261 of 1197 🔗

Thank you Eliza, I am in a similar position to you. I am now semi-retired so I do have an income, BUT, those of us who are NOT in the public sector depend for incomes on private pensions and how is that income financed? By investments in other companies and if those companies go bust where is the income then?
Also like you I have been adversely affected by all of this lockdown nonsense but nowhere near as badly as others who have lost jobs and businesses. Ianric ought not to suppose that all retired people have the attitude of ‘I’m all right, Jack’; there are many retired people on this forum; people who have actually fought for our freedoms in the past.

330028 ▶▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Stephanos, 2, #262 of 1197 🔗

Many pension funds were/are invested in shopping centres. My local has lost Debenhams, Peacocks, and Topshop occupying large spaces, Debenhams their own iconic building.

330041 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Silke David, 2, #263 of 1197 🔗

Not to mention also invested in prime real estate in the City of London, Belgravia and Mayfair. Many of them are offices and the longer this working from home malarkey drags on that will have a disastrous effect on the offices I mentioned above.

Those who are pro-lockdown will be forced to wake up when their pensions and savings lose their value due to being invested in real estate.

330496 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JanMasarykMunich, replying to Bart Simpson, #264 of 1197 🔗

On the subject of property, you might find this interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=3iK3EIXIfHU

330165 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ianric, replying to Silke David, #265 of 1197 🔗

My town had a Peacocks and a Debenhams. I understand these firms were in difficulty before lockdown so I am not sure if these firms would have gone bust anyway. When big shops go there is a huge impact. Landlords loose a lot of rent revenue when big shops go bust and it is much harder to get new tenants in large retail spaces than small retail spaces.

330151 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ianric, replying to Stephanos, 4, #266 of 1197 🔗

My apologies for given the impression that I thought all retired people were willing to support lockdown. I am sure there are many retired people who oppose lockdowns.

330163 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ xplod, replying to Ianric, 2, #267 of 1197 🔗

Yep! I’m one!

330289 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to xplod, 1, #268 of 1197 🔗

Snap.

330616 ▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to Ianric, #269 of 1197 🔗

The interdependence of the Old Normal. The New Normal will most likely eliminate this interdependence.

329991 ▶▶ Waldorf, replying to Ianric, 4, #270 of 1197 🔗

To a large extent, yes. The Third Reich for example targeted minorities. For example Jews were less than 1% of the population. The majority of Germans thought they themselves were not targets or that their interests were even being served.

329878 Gagey, replying to Gagey, 17, #271 of 1197 🔗

The ‘Only Fools & Horses’ 2020 special:
Are we as a nation actually now living in a Govt made sit-com?
I think the plot was that Peking Pete from the local Chinese managed to convince Del-Bojo & his useless sidekick Rod-Cock to pre-order & pre-pay for a container load of vaccines that are now piled up in a lock up at the back of the flats. In order to protect Uncle Albert & his mates from this strange Peckham Flu, they closed the Nags Head, the local curry house, & even Damien’s school!
Del-Bojo & Rod-Cock then realised that they’d ordered so many of these vaccines they were cluttering up the van, the lock-up, the flat, all the suitcases, etc. They were everywhere & they needed shifting a bit sharpish. It was not cushty at all! So some crafty thinking was needed as “he who dares…” and all that.

They realised that in order to get shot of all the vaccines they were gonna have to spin any yarn they could think of to get people to have them. Rod-Cock was happy to go along with the plan reassured by Del-Bojo’s words of encouragement “this time next year, we’ll be millionaires….”

Uncle Albert didn’t need to be asked twice to take the vaccine as he was very worried about this new Peckham virus, but Cassandra felt she didn’t need it, Mickey Pierce refused it, Boycey & Marlene had their doubts, Denzil was very sceptical & Trigger just didn’t understand it at all.

Del-Bojo & Rod-Cock just pressed on regardless, ignoring the fact that hardly anyone they knew down the market, in the pubs or in the flats around them was actually ill & just kept telling everyone that they needed to have this vaccine… “you know it makes sense” Del-Bojo kept repeating. They kept coming out with evermore wierd, wonderful & sometimes brilliantly funny reasons why it was vital they should. They even told them that a new virus ‘variant’ had been discovered down the back of the sofa. The ‘Robin Reliant 1.2’ it was called apparently.

Eventually though, everybody realised that there was simply no other way out & Del-Bojo & his T.I.T.s company weren’t going to ever stop banging on about it & seemingly held some strange power of the people of Peckham. They all gave in, cut their losses and all had the vaccine, administered by ex-landlord Mike who’d sadly lost his job as the Nags Head closed for good & he’d re-trained as an NHS nurse.

Del-Bojo & Rod-Cock were initially delighted & but unfortunately then realised that they had nowhere to go celebrate as Peckham was now a ghost town. They had to accept a Peckham new normal which was a bit of “lovely jubbly” & “mange tout” at the flat, sat in the lounge, & staring at the walls.

Note: Since filming was finished, Uncle Albert sadly passed away aged 83.4. He died of natural causes.

This was hopefully a one-off 2020 special & there are no plans for a 2021 version at this moment in time.

329943 ▶▶ dhid, replying to Gagey, #272 of 1197 🔗

Brilliant!

329879 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 23, #273 of 1197 🔗

When I was working, I was in the top half of the top 10% of all the people practicing my profession in the world, and had the paperwork to prove it. Never had to. However, even then, neither I, nor my colleagues in a similar position would ever have described ourselves as ‘experts’ in our trade. You just didn’t do it. It would be inviting trouble for one thing. Right now, I’d happily swing for any ‘expert’ I could get near enough to explain the error of their ways. If an ‘expert’ works for the government, he is, by definition, third rate, at best. Like members of the Nazi Party the day after the war ended, they will be impossible to find if and when this is ever over.

329897 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to James Leary #KBF, 4, #274 of 1197 🔗

I work for a company which regularly sells me as an expert. I always make the point on day 1 working with clients that there are no experts doing my job.

329902 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to James Leary #KBF, 3, #275 of 1197 🔗

I used to say that, ‘An expert is someone 100 miles from home with a briefcase’.

329930 ▶▶ dhid, replying to James Leary #KBF, 5, #276 of 1197 🔗

I often think the old joke of an “X-spurt” applies with some of these – “X” being the unknown factor and “spurt” is a drip under pressure.

Many of those wheeled out for some time now, fit that category well I think.

329883 Crystal Decanter, #278 of 1197 🔗

resource for legal avoidance of the FranKenjab

https://freedomtaker.com/

A little hyperbolic but can be easily adapted for UK purposes

329886 Fingerache Philip, replying to Fingerache Philip, 3, #279 of 1197 🔗

Any reports of the police (Gestapo) arresting people for being normal last night?

330156 ▶▶ wayno, replying to Fingerache Philip, 3, #280 of 1197 🔗

Not arrested but a friend was home alone with music on, about half 12, 8 police turned up at her door. With reports of a party. Lancashire police have been up to this point pity much non existent.

329889 Old Bill, replying to Old Bill, 1, #281 of 1197 🔗

All coming true as I predicted. As soon as Boris has his escape route planned the ‘pandemic’ will be over.

I am only guessing, but if you look at page 2947, paragraph 1823b, subsection 11, clause 6 of the Brexit agreement, I am fairly sure you will see that we no longer have an extradition agreement with France!

330575 ▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to Old Bill, #282 of 1197 🔗

Pity, we could have exiled Boris and co to France.

330905 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to bebophaircut, #283 of 1197 🔗

Is St Helena still available?

329891 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 27, #284 of 1197 🔗

Happy New Year to you Toby and very touching that you featured Fred’s comment from yesterday to open 2021.

I get the feeling that things are going to get uglier from today especially with more businesses going bust, more redundancies and with furlough ending.

We need to wake up more people to the economic, psychological and social damage that lockdowns have caused and are still causing:

329894 ▶▶ LMS2, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #285 of 1197 🔗

Chickens and roosts come to mind.

Happy New Year. 😕

330516 ▶▶ JanMasarykMunich, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #286 of 1197 🔗

Graph is fantastic. Deserves a place over the line.

329892 LMS2, replying to LMS2, 8, #287 of 1197 🔗

This article written on an American website sums up a lot of what we believe:

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/12/without_our_constitution_were_under_occupation.html

Without Our Constitution, We’re Under Occupation

“I don’t know if fed up Americans will rise up in the near future and defend their liberties against an ever more abusive and oppressive system of government, [the writer is not talking about Trump and his administration here, it the individual state governors and mayors, mainly Democrats, who have been acting like mini-tyrants, imposing draconian measures against the population, but ignoring the same measures and restrictions themselves] but I do know that 2020 has revealed vividly the post-constitutional wilderness the nation has entered. Not since the days of slavery or internment have federal and local governments attacked the natural rights and freedoms of individual Americans so concertedly as they have this past year. Arbitrary house arrests; the denial of religious freedoms; the closing of private businesses without any equitable measures of compensation; the intentional disregard for the destruction of private property while anarchists are given general grants of immunity; and the absolute refusal by governors, secretaries of state, attorneys general, and judges to provide for and ensure free and fair elections have combined to produce a lawless year in the United States.

If you believe, as all Americans should, that failure to abide by the strictures of the Constitution renders the institutions of government illegitimate, then I would argue that 2020 has crystallized an uncomfortable reality: we are now under occupation by a hostile governing force. That may seem ludicrous to some, but I see no distinction between a group of Americans seizing power and governing with complete disregard for the Constitution and an invading force of Chinese communists accomplishing the same objective. Our governing document clearly proscribes what government actors may do, and when the government as a whole discards those constraints as mere suggestions, then it delegitimizes itself….

….If we are to believe 2020’s rendering of the Constitution of the United States of America, it is the weakest guarantor of individual freedom one could imagine. It becomes inoperative during times of public illness, is highly dependent on the viewpoints of individual Americans, and goes completely silent when the American people elect a president whom the residents of D.C. cannot abide. If the Constitution’s powers are truly so feeble and supine, then there is no question that we are governed solely by the whims of men and women unconstrained by the rule of law. If the Constitution’s protections for each American’s individual rights can be suspended every time a government bureaucrat declares an emergency, then we have no protections at all. We have simply entered the “Age of Emergencies.” ”

All the freedoms and legal protections we thought we had, right across the Western countries, have been stripped away in the name of fighting a not very lethal virus.
If it had a fatality rate of 10, 15, 20%, we wouldn’t need government telling us what to do. We’d be doing it automatically. We wouldn’t need a constant campaign of fear being pumped out by the media.

329947 ▶▶ TC, replying to LMS2, 2, #288 of 1197 🔗

Wonder if some Americans are polishing up their Second Amendment rights?
That would be worrying in a country where maybe 50% of households reputedly have firearms.

329899 Major Panic, 10, #289 of 1197 🔗

Happy new year all – and it looks like we need to all write to our MPs to avert the latest pending disaster.

There is pressure to short cut our great bureaucratic systems of incompetence – volunteer retired and student nurses and docs must not be allowed anywhere near patients without first having completed a 4 week intensive training in diversity!!

One of the problems of our National Hopeless Service is that it is managed by ineptitude and stupidity – bit like our country

329903 l835, 10, #290 of 1197 🔗

I see the Ministry of Information are explaining the lack of queues at Channel ports being due to the bank holiday. Is it not the case that businesses who wish to export have simply completed the correct paperwork? In the past bank holidays were the cause of congestion due to reduced sailings and lack of staff. Well tomorrow isn’t a bank holiday, let’s see what happens, my money is on ‘nothing to see here’ They really can’t bear the prospect of brexit working can they?

Happy New Year. Hiel drakeford.

329912 BTLnewbie, replying to BTLnewbie, 21, #291 of 1197 🔗

The Robert Dingwall article (linked in the main post but originally written in September) is an eye-opener – he is a member of NERVTAG, one of the groups advising government, yet he has this to say about masks:

“Let’s recognize that face covering, as practiced, is irrelevant in most circumstances. The whole country should not be driven by the exceptional circumstances of rush hour in major cities. If most people are currently wearing face coverings, acknowledge that this is because they want to avoid trouble rather than to achieve protection.”

Useful ammo for we non-compliers and I’ll use it in the letters of complaint re Dr. Montgomery.

329928 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to BTLnewbie, 6, #292 of 1197 🔗

He has been a member of NERVTAG for months and has spoken out (in a personal capacity) against the use of masks since they were made mandatory in the summer

329989 ▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Major Panic, 1, #293 of 1197 🔗

Thanks for this, MP

330011 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to BTLnewbie, 9, #294 of 1197 🔗

He’s quite measured. Refreshing next to his colleagues and maybe leans to the GBD position without declaring it.

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/backstories/1042/

“It’s an acknowledgement that there’s an awful lot of stuff that is being done at the moment that doesn’t really make much difference, and acceptance that perhaps some of the modeling is based on convenient numbers rather than on scientific evidence.

There is not much point in making people stand two meters apart in supermarket car parks because the transmission risk is effectively zero. It’s an extrapolation from experiments done in clinical and laboratory settings; generalization for the real world is very uncertain, and not particularly credible. There’s not much point in sending police officers to break up groups in public parks in London, especially when those groups are shared households of young people or from minority ethnic groups who tend to live in larger family groups, larger family households. Now if your public health message is not based on credible evidence, then it’s not surprising if populations decline to engage with it and just see it as another project by political leaderships to impose things on the population that they wouldn’t dream of doing for themselves.”

329921 chaos, replying to chaos, 11, #295 of 1197 🔗

Awight.. I’m one of da latest adverts on Talkradio innit telling yous to hands face space aight.. my laaarndon accent was chosen cos you thick mugs more likely to listen to a commoner aaaight.. either that or I am an actor..

brass bands, boat race, suitcase.. oh my dayz booyacka take it easy be careful oi oi

329934 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to chaos, 7, #296 of 1197 🔗

It’s the Lambeth Walk, innit. Everything’s free and easy, do as you darn well pleasy, but two chevrons apart, with a hop skip and a jump into the road if you spot a maskless leper coming the other way.

329938 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 8, #297 of 1197 🔗

innit bruv

hands face drum n bass

329963 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to chaos, 3, #298 of 1197 🔗

The one I heard sounded like Jim Broadbent. Still as bloody patronising though.

329983 ▶▶ DRW, replying to chaos, 2, #299 of 1197 🔗

The one I heard in a shop was a patronising plummy woman that could have been from Blue Peter. “Henss Fayss Spayss [children]”

329993 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to DRW, 3, #300 of 1197 🔗

Perhaps they’re covering all bases – cockney, northerner and posho …

330040 ▶▶▶▶ dhid, replying to kh1485, 2, #301 of 1197 🔗

They’re all conniving wankers though!

330046 ▶▶ dhid, replying to chaos, 2, #302 of 1197 🔗

I’ve come to actually enjoy the M@cDs and KFC ads as being normal cheerful bollox in comparison – never thought that would happen……

329927 ElizaP, replying to ElizaP, 10, #303 of 1197 🔗

One positive thought for the day – of the “Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander” being an article in today’s Daily Mail retailing how we don’t know whether Her Maj or hubby Philip have had the jab or no (obviously, being in their 90s, they’d be first in the queue group). One would have thought the media would make a big thing of them having done so to encourage the rest of us into it. I take it that means they’ve not had it and won’t be doing so either. The majority of commenters are saying that it’s their own private business whether they do so. Fine – in that case it will also be my own private business whether I’ve done so or no (clue – I won’t have) and they can’t ask me for a vaccine passport unless they’d also ask Her Maj and Philip (clue – they wouldnt). Since they wouldnt ask them whether they had a vax passport or no – then they can’t ask me either. So I guess the Royals have done us a favour – as we can demand equal treatment in that respect.

329931 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to ElizaP, 3, #304 of 1197 🔗

they probably have more sense – and generally distance from the great unwashed anyway

329945 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to Major Panic, 6, #305 of 1197 🔗

Charles has also helped push her back and himself forward.. covid was the opportunity to save his natural world from us plebs. Along with other bad actors he hijacked covid.

329979 ▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to Major Panic, 4, #306 of 1197 🔗

It might be worth asking why. They are after all in the age group most endangered. She was born in 1926, for God’s sake. Could it be that the vaccine is more dangerous than the virus? It is a useful bit of grist to the skeptic mill.

329933 BecJT, replying to BecJT, 69, #307 of 1197 🔗

Hello guys, long time no speak, turns out I’ve been sliding into iron deficiency anaemia for the last few months, and my capacity to absorb infuriating news diminished accordingly. Just checking in to wish you a Happy New Year. As I keep saying, fear of dying is not living, so here’s to living in 2021!

Highlights of my year, my dad’s dementia has gone off a ski jump under lockdown, he’s 85 and was very active and sociable, and now he’s shambling, anxious, lacking in confidence and can’t keep a thought in his head from one minute to the next, sad to see. GP still refusing to see him, or treat his blatant thyroid problem, despite my best advocacy efforts.

My iron is in my boots, NHS is shut (and sh*t, I’ll never understand the hero worship) so I’m forking out the best part of a grand – I’m fortunate I have it – to get an infusion privately. Yay for caring about people!

I found love in a covid climate – four months in, he’s as sceptical as me and we’ve been quitely breaking the regulations for some time to hang out together and work our way through netflix and nice meals, going out when we can. So it’s not all bad.

I’ve been taken on by a new client so I’m now working in kids mental health and in child exploitation, what we are doing to kids will haunt me for the rest of my days. If one more person tells me, ‘if you’d cared, you’d …. ‘ I might punch them in the face! Turns out forcing loads of kids onto the internet unsupervised was really good news for groomers and predators, who knew!

Everyone I speak to privately thinks this is all bollocks, top tip, start a conversation with check out staff in the supermarket, biggest sceptics going, usually the whole till queue joins in. I keep it smiley and friendly, works every time ….

Oh and I’ve not worn a mask once, my lanyard is my invisibiilty cloak, I intend to do this whole thing maskless, I want to get to the end and say I never ever capitulated to that piece of nonsense. I won’t do things that are not logical. I’ve managed it in even in a plebotomy lab, despite the dickhead on the door who told me ‘you are exempt from wearing a mask but not a visor’ which is total tosh, didn’t wear it, nobody said anything!

Hope you are all keeping as well as you can, all the best for the New Year.

Bec
x

329944 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to BecJT, 4, #308 of 1197 🔗

Good to hear from you again, Happy New Year!

329948 ▶▶ Mark, replying to BecJT, 4, #309 of 1197 🔗

Good to hear you’re doing ok, Bec, and still fighting! Welcome home.

329951 ▶▶ TC, replying to BecJT, 2, #310 of 1197 🔗

Good for you and good luck.

329952 ▶▶ DRW, replying to BecJT, 1, #311 of 1197 🔗

You too Bec, nice to have you back.

329954 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to BecJT, 7, #312 of 1197 🔗

Lovely to see you back BecJT. Very sorry to read about your dad. Was thinking about you and the others who haven’t been here for a while yesterday (Fairinances, Gracie Knoll etc).

330006 ▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to BecJT, 1, #313 of 1197 🔗

Well done you! congrats and good luck 😁

330026 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to BecJT, 2, #314 of 1197 🔗

Hey up, Lass!

330031 ▶▶ dhid, replying to BecJT, 5, #315 of 1197 🔗

Sorry your dad has borne the brunt – my view (and experience) of the NHS is much the same as yours.

I totally agree about staff in supermarkets – I suspect many may have found themselves on here.

HNY (hopefully!)

330047 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to BecJT, 2, #316 of 1197 🔗

Great news!! Happy New Year!

330865 ▶▶ JASA, replying to BecJT, #317 of 1197 🔗

Happy New Year Bec. I was wondering where you were. I don’t write often, but been here since the very beginning. I’m sorry to read about your difficulties.

All the best. John.

330904 ▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to BecJT, #318 of 1197 🔗

Well done Bec. Tell the dickhead on the door ‘one more word out of your mouth and you, personally, not the store, not the manager, you personally will be liable to a fine of between £900 – £9000 under Section 6 of the 2010 Equalities act.’ Usually works. I wish I had need to use it more often. Must be my ‘looking for trouble’ demeanour.

329950 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 33, #319 of 1197 🔗

Happy New Year to Toby et al. who keep this wonderful blog running, and to all the commenters here. I recognise a lot of you by username now and I really feel like I am part of a community. I would have gone utterly insane were it not for you lot. After seeing how hatred and fear has warped a lot of people, this place restores my faith in humanity.

Trying not to feel too pessimistic today – seasonal affective disorder, hatred of January and lockdown where there is f all to do are a lethal combination. A lot can happen in a year after all, as we saw in 2020. KBO.

330055 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Poppy, 3, #320 of 1197 🔗

Happy New Year to you too Poppy and agree, let’s KBO in 2021!!!

329953 FrankiiB, replying to FrankiiB, 12, #321 of 1197 🔗

Kent “surge” over?

The “cases” in Kent appear sharply down yesterday. Ok, might be Christmas blip but I don’t think so, because Milton keynes and north of Thames are up.

It looks like the Kent cases, where this blip started, are now decreasing and this decrease is nothing to do with the lockdown, it is just the natural phase of any winter flu. The decrease will ripple through the south east in the same order that it rippled out in the first place.

329973 ▶▶ DRW, replying to FrankiiB, 1, #322 of 1197 🔗

Wasn’t mass prison testing involved in that?

329980 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to FrankiiB, 2, #323 of 1197 🔗

Checkout new “Kent Freedom Association” on Facebook. A place to meet other ‘local’ sceptics. I am sure there are other groups with similar objectives all over the country.

330119 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to PastImperfect, 1, #324 of 1197 🔗

That should be

 “Kent Freedom Alliance”

329984 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to FrankiiB, 10, #325 of 1197 🔗

My ludicrous, unfounded, unscientific optimistic hope is that this virus will burn itself out, historically these things do not usually go on forever. The weather is changing to high pressure, the light quality starts to get better during January. I think it is time this thing went into decline………….well it is a new year you’ve got to try and be optimistic!

329988 ▶▶▶ FrankiiB, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #326 of 1197 🔗

I suspect you are right. I haven’t traced the weather closely, but I suspect that it affects the virus more than lockdown as you say.

330181 ▶▶▶ Jo Dominich, replying to Steve Martindale, 5, #327 of 1197 🔗

There is no virus! It is a purely manufactured ideology born out of manufactured hysteria, fake news, industrial levels of propaganda and draconian censorship. However, none of this can keep the truth from emerging. The main question now on people’s lips in the Petrol Station is “Why haven’t we or anyone we know got it then if it’s this bad?”. Without any of these, it simply wouldn’t exist.

330248 ▶▶▶▶ John001, replying to Jo Dominich, 1, #328 of 1197 🔗

I’m afraid that there is a SARS CoV 2. However, it’s nowhere near as bad as SARS-1 in 2003 was or the government would be regularly issuing false reassurances, not the opposite.

There was a study of how SARS-1 spread from one person to another in flats in Amoy Gardens, Hong Kong.

329959 Les Tricoteuses, 2, #329 of 1197 🔗

If you want a little diversion today you could play a ‘where’s Wally’ type game of ‘spot the stereotype’ with the illustrations on this page.

https://www.unwomen.org/en/digital-library/multimedia/2020/2/illustration-equiterra-gender-equality-utopia

Welcome to the UN vision of the future.

329961 Basics, 3, #330 of 1197 🔗

https://youtu.be/mv1nnE0442M

For anyone who had a trip to NYC for new year planned but couldn’t make it this is what you missed.

Refuse trucks mobilised by the city to block streets. Pavements/sidewalks closed to dangerously push people into flows of traffic.

Not to given any new year cheer but worth adding to the skeptics diary, remarkable times.

329962 FrankiiB, replying to FrankiiB, 16, #331 of 1197 🔗

Professionals to strike off

My venom for the likes of professor Hugh, whoever he is, Neil Ferguson, Patrick Ballance et al is such that I hope if there is a lawyer out there who can, they will follow up every possible way of taking legal action against these people. I cannot see how professor Hugh Montgomery and Neil Ferguson can still be licenced as professionals.

330059 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to FrankiiB, 6, #332 of 1197 🔗

Montgomery at the very best should be struck off by the GMC.

Dunno about Professor Pantsdown but I suppose he can be blacklisted which means that no institution would employ him again.

330068 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #333 of 1197 🔗

I looked on the GMC website as you can put in a complaint about a doctor as a member of the public online. It was only a quick look but I wasn’t sure under what category any such complaint would fall. https://www.gmc-uk.org/concerns/raise-a-concern-about-a-doctor#public
https://www.gmc-uk.org/concerns/information-for-patients/how-we-will-deal-with-your-concerns/when-we-will-investigate

329964 BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 5, #334 of 1197 🔗

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55502014

Lockdowns don’t even lower deaths on the road.

329971 ▶▶ Mark, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 3, #335 of 1197 🔗

But obviously lots of those “road deaths” are people who had covid in them at the time of death, and so should really be counted as covid deaths. The fact that they hadn’t actually been tested shouldn’t allow the government to get away with its clear cover up of the mass slaughter they are causing by not properly responding to the covid holocaust!

/zerocovidobsessivemode

330159 ▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to Mark, 1, #336 of 1197 🔗

Have you been reading the World Socialist Website?

329976 ▶▶ DRW, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #337 of 1197 🔗

Not enough following da roolz!

329966 Mark, replying to Mark, 21, #338 of 1197 🔗

“all endured with the forebidding spectre of a no deal Brexit hanging over us “

Surely I can’t have been alone in having been “intensely relaxed” about the prospect of a no deal?

Who knows what the ultimate results of the actual deal might turn out to be – we are dealing with professional lying weasels here, in Westminster, in Brussels and in our media and analysis and comment classes, after all. At the moment, based on the general acceptance of the pro-Leave camp, it seems it might be what it appears – just about minimally acceptable as an actual escape from the European superstate project.

But concerns about a few percentage points of gdp lost turned out to be crocodile tears from, our elites, who have been happy to piss ten per cent and more of gdp up the wall for nothing, basically. The reality is that it’s never been the economics that was the important issue.

329974 ▶▶ Old Bill, replying to Mark, 16, #339 of 1197 🔗

Surely I can’t have been alone in having been “intensely relaxed” about the prospect of a no deal?

Certainly not. No deal was just another facet to project fear. I would have preferred if we went onto WTO rules the day after the vote was counted and then spent the next 4.5 years arguing over how to modify that position if at all necessary.

330014 ▶▶▶ dhid, replying to Old Bill, 3, #340 of 1197 🔗

+1

330037 ▶▶▶ coulie45, replying to Old Bill, 2, #341 of 1197 🔗

Absolutely right, but then the key members of Mrs May’s cabinet were all uber remainers.

329982 ▶▶ Stephanos, replying to Mark, 12, #342 of 1197 🔗

Mark, no you were far from alone. I am glad we have finally left but I have grave doubts about this deal since I do not trust this government at all and I suspect the dead hand of the Civil Service in all this.

329972 PastImperfect, 12, #343 of 1197 🔗

The burden of Happy New Year 2021 – unappreciated by the collaborators. (Apologies if already posted.)

329985 Basileus, replying to Basileus, 8, #344 of 1197 🔗

This is the closing part of Winston Churchill’s VE day speech.

“The injury she has inflicted on Great Britain, the United States, and other countries, and her detestable cruelties, call for justice and retribution. We must now devote all our strength and resources to the completion of our task, both at home and abroad.

“Advance, Britannia! Long live the cause of freedom! God save the King!”

329998 ▶▶ Bungle, replying to Basileus, 2, #345 of 1197 🔗

What relevance has this to anything?

330016 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Bungle, 6, #346 of 1197 🔗

Err, 10 months of ‘detestable cruelties’, maybe?

330032 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Basileus, 4, #347 of 1197 🔗

And then they voted him out

329986 Mark, replying to Mark, 20, #348 of 1197 🔗

Cummings ready to testify that Boris rejected his lockdown advice ” – Robert Peston reveals that Dominic Cummings was Downing Street’s lockdown zealot-in-chief and is willing to testify before a public inquiry that Boris ignored his advice to lock down in September

Always nice to be vindicated.

That weasel Wormtongue Cummings must surely have been a huge part of the combination of forces that drove our government off the path of Swedish-style common sense in Feb/March There should be no forgiveness for Johnson or the rest of the Guilty Men for caving in to it, but the combination of the massive elite and leftist pressure from outside the government, hysterically shouting down sensible talk about herd immunity as “eugenics”, and making juvenile rants about “putting money ahead of lives” and ” if it saves one life”, with such a hugely influential insider as Cummings manipulating advice to push panic, was clearly overwhelming.

It was the job of Johnson and the Guilty Men to resist that pressure, and to see past the hysteria and the infantile emotionalism, and they failed to do their jobs when the crunch came. But we should not forget or forgive those who created that pressure, either.

329996 ▶▶ Bungle, replying to Mark, 4, #349 of 1197 🔗

When you drag in ‘left’ and ‘right’ you dilute your argument. We are all in this together, sensible people that is!

330002 ▶▶▶ mj, replying to Bungle, 1, #350 of 1197 🔗

agree.. instead of leftist use “neo liberal ” or similar name for the people that populate the BBC, MSM, NHS management, government ,Quangos etc etc etc. we all know where they are and what they want.

330100 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to mj, #351 of 1197 🔗

Absolutely not. “Neo-liberal” is a semantically manipulative term based on the assumption within a small clique of leftists that left/right is only about economics and nominal ownership of wealth and intended to pretend that only those who share their obsession are actually “leftwing”. This is false – left/right is older, broader and much more fundamental than that basically Marxist assumption.

Peter Hitchens gave quite a good discussion of how this relates to British politics here, distinguishing between the old fashioned, simplistic Marxist types and the more modern “Eurocommunist” or “Cultural Marxist” movement (though Hitchens, I understand, dislikes the latter term). He understands it because he was part of it:

Tens of thousands of us, from the newly-expanded universities, went off into teaching, journalism, the BBC, the big charities, the law and, of course, politics. And 25-odd years later we began to pop up in positions of importance.
Crucially, my generation was deep inside what became New Labour – not old-fashioned Stalinist Communists like Johnny Torode, Evelyn Jones and that lot.
We were modern, post-1968 funky Marxists who believed in cultural and sexual revolution, in open borders and in the European Community (one of whose founders, Altiero Spinelli, was a veteran Italian Communist).
Several members of Blair’s Cabinet were active Marxists in the 1968-1990 period.

330155 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, 1, #352 of 1197 🔗

Big Yawn. Simplistic infantile rattle for the simple minded whilst Rome burns.

330160 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 1, #353 of 1197 🔗

If there’s going to be an appeal to authority here, I’ll take Peter Hitchens over you as far as understanding of British politics is concerned, thanks.

330022 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Bungle, 4, #354 of 1197 🔗

Chill out, Bungle. I’m a far right, alt-media, conspiracy theorist, anti-vaxxer (apparently). I can’t control how people label me, and I don’t care anyway.

330050 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Bungle, 8, #355 of 1197 🔗

In your opinion (and that of others, obviously). I disagree.

Left and right are just useful short-hands for broad attitude groups in human society, and particular political and social positions that arise out of them. Those like you who claim to dislike their use are rarely, in my experience, averse to their own politically partisan polemic. A fine example of that from your political side here is RickH, who constantly attacks anyone making any political point he disagrees with for “hobby horse riding”, supposedly distracting from the objective, but wastes few opportunities to mention his own (objectively ridiculous) political fantasy of the coronapanic being somehow driven by “extreme right wing” forces in the government (LOL!), who must have magically duped all the actual leftist groups and individuals in the world except himself and a few others.

It’s debatable whether this coronapanic can or should be addressed in isolation. It arose out of global politics and cultural developments which had their own reflections in the changes in this nation over the past few decades. Imo it’s rather silly to try to understand it outside of that context.

But regardless, if there is a case for sites that focus tightly on resistance to the coronapanic in all its aspects, it is clearly not the function of this site, despite the name. This is Toby Young’s personal blog, and he has never been averse to introducing other issues atl, nor has he ever required commenters btl to restrict their discussions in that way.

I give you the advice I follow myself in regard to the expression of opinions that I dislike: ignore them or engage with them. Removing or censoring them should not be an option even for consideration.

But I recognise that this is unlikely to appeal to you. Since you self-identify above as in sympathy with the pc and “woke” plague that has bedevilled and corrupted our society and politics for decades, you are clearly inclined to the other approach – censorship and firm supression of dissenting opinion.

Hopefully, since Toby is the founder of the Free Speech Union – created specifically to address the problems caused in our societies by your attitudes – and has personal experience of the vicious nastiness of those you identify with when dealing with disagreement, you will never have the kind of power to suppress dissent here that your fellow wokesters have acquired in most mainstream forums.

I will fight by your side wherever you are fighting the coronapanic in all its manifestations, but I have no illusions that, given the power to do so, you would not have people (including me if I stand up for them) censored, sacked, and quite possibly imprisoned and forcibly “reeducated”, for expressing opinions you regard as unacceptable. That’s what “woke” is all about. If that is not you, then you should not claim to support it.

330007 ▶▶ Will, replying to Mark, 13, #356 of 1197 🔗

It will be fun to tell the lockdown zealots that they are in full agreement with Cummings and Piers Moron.

329987 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 27, #357 of 1197 🔗

The government has made a terrible mistake in delaying the first Pfizer shot to 12 weeks.
Who was the absolute priority group for this experimental vaccine? Persons in long term care.
They are easily identified confined to their care homes or in hospital care. They could easily and quickly have been immunised. They most likely would have less severe allergic reaction and long term effects are a minor problem. They have the absolute highest C-19 mortality and driving the outbreaks in care homes. Everything pointed that only these should have been vaccinated from the beginning in a razor-sharp campaign as done in Israel. And with two doses.
Either the gov. squandered the available vaccine in healthy HCWs and/or wanted to promote the UK based Astra Zeneca vaccine on a population scared by the mutant variant.
The government advised by the well-known public health expert, Tony Blair, decided to postpone the Pfizer vaccine for 12 weeks and will roll out the British proudly produced  Astra Zeneca vaccine and continue the more broad based vaccine campaign including HCWs.
Astonished that so many think it must be better to have one shot for many instead of two for a few. This decision has been taken by MHRA and JCVI groups but surely has been due to political pressure. How can it be scientifically correct when the authorisation for effect of vaccine is only based on two doses? You can’t just cherry pick after 1 dose the reported 53% effect. There are many factors here. There are few in this age group in the trials. We have no idea if there is a quick decline of vaccine induced antibodies in this age group. We have no idea if that could be even worse outcome if infected. In fact, nobody knows. This is not a science-based decision.
The below complaint by a doctor receiving the first shot of the vaccine is correct. She would be right to sue her employer for this I would imagine. They are doing experimental things with something which is already is based upon an experimental basis

https://twitter.com/farrell_katrina/status/1344610377565405184

“Just received this email cancelling my 2nd dose of the Pfizer vaccine. On the basis of UK government guidance yesterday. This means that the vaccine is not being delivered as licensed. I DID NOT consent to receive an off-label drug with NO evidence of benefit with a single dose.

330033 ▶▶ Natalie Shay, replying to swedenborg, 7, #358 of 1197 🔗

The Totalitarian tip toe continues.
Why does anyone need a mRNA ‘vaccine’ which is code word for experimental drug?
Why not dose with Vit D, Vit C, Iverctimin (sic) or Hydrochloriquine (sic) if needed?
The argument has now moved to accepting the premise a vaccine is inevitable and needed.

330079 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Natalie Shay, 3, #359 of 1197 🔗

Agreed, the efficacy of Invermectin is given in some of the RCTs as 100%, there is no need for an unproven vaccine when an incredibly effective cheap therapeutic treatment and / or prophylactic exists.
https://ivmmeta.com

330237 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Natalie Shay, 3, #360 of 1197 🔗

I respectfully disagree. C-19 deaths are about 50-75 % in Long Term Care in Western Countries. The risk of death in this age group is 1000 time higher than younger. You could say this just shows that death is so rare in youngers but it is between 10-20% death in this risk category. Persons in Long Term Care has about 1-1,5 years left in their life. They have lower chance of anaphylaxis of the vaccine in this age group. If there are any longer term side effects that might affect them would have less relevance. There is a risk of unknown side effects in shorter term but this unknown risk must be balanced with the known risk of 1 chance in 5 of dying with C-19 if they get infected. All strategies of protecting the elderly in care homes, with all good intentions, will not work as this is an unstoppable respiratory virus. It is impossible to stop interacting with outside world. That doesn’t exclude using prophylactic treatment like Ivermectin etc in a two-pronged approach. Anybody outside this risk category should carefully think about long term risks of this untried vaccine versus risk of dying from C-19. The individual should not be forced to take it due to altruistic herd immunity reasons.

329990 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 27, #361 of 1197 🔗

Successful little shindig at mine last night – now nursing the hangover from hell. Happy New Year you lovely, beautiful awkward fuckers.

330003 ▶▶ mj, replying to Tom Blackburn, 7, #362 of 1197 🔗

a headache is listed as a symptom of covid. go get yourself tested you selfish b*stard !!
and happy new year to you 🙂

330013 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #363 of 1197 🔗

Wonder just how many mad partying sceptics are waking up with most of the supposed symptoms of ‘it’ this morning? 🙂

330579 ▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to Tom Blackburn, #364 of 1197 🔗

Try Jeeves’s miracle cure. Prairie Oyster.

329992 Bungle, replying to Bungle, 6, #365 of 1197 🔗

Thank Darwin 4 LS,it’s the first thing I go for when I leave my pit, apart from the coffee, of course. I am 98% with you and bless you daily but, as a Socialist (believe in the many not the few) I do wish you would stop putting in things other than lockdown. I’m not sure what ‘woke’ is but seem sure I am it and, being a Rugby League supporter, find Harry the first loveable royal ever. But these things are not being sceptical about lockdown. Can we please keep to this crusade and leave the rest to their proper place. Many thanks, you start my day with a boost to action.

330061 ▶▶ dommo, replying to Bungle, #366 of 1197 🔗

no – you need to see the wider picture – this is not about a virus or about lockdown per se

watch this:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1-0XKYAZII&feature=youtu.be

329994 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 10, #367 of 1197 🔗

Would you think Prof Montgomery 35 years ago would have complained that the reckless behaviour must be stopped and many have blood on their hands ,when the hospital wards was filled up with dying AIDS patients?

330008 ▶▶ Will, replying to swedenborg, 2, #368 of 1197 🔗

When do you think Sweden will release the 2020 mortality figures, Swedenborg?

330193 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Will, #369 of 1197 🔗

Sorry I don’t know but the SCB(National Stat.Office) is fairly rapid and always reliable. This man
https://twitter.com/HaraldofW
is the best source of such statistics.Don’t live in Sweden.

330089 ▶▶ Nobody2021, replying to swedenborg, 2, #370 of 1197 🔗

Why go back that far? Just go back to any flu season.

One thing I am pretty sure of about Prof Montgomery. I probably interact with less people than he does in any given day or week. Therefore the likelihood is that he has more blood on his hands than me.

329997 BTLnewbie, replying to BTLnewbie, 11, #371 of 1197 🔗

Prof Hugh Montgomery – again.
Relevant addresses:

  1. Chair of the Whittington Hospital Trust – Baroness Julia Neuberger, House of Lords, London SW1A 0PW – addressed as ‘Baroness Neuberger’
  2. British Medical Association – complaints@bma.org.uk
  3. BBC complaints – BBC Complaints, PO Box 1922, Darlington, DL3 0UR

I’m not as fluent or expert a complainant as Awkward Git, and doubtless my complaints will be water of a duck’s back, but they have made me feel better!

330001 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to BTLnewbie, #372 of 1197 🔗

He sounds like a right whopper. What a clown!

330039 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to BTLnewbie, 5, #373 of 1197 🔗

3 more BMA e-mails:

info.public@bma.org.uk

mediaoffice@bma.org.uk

publicaffairs@bma.org.uk

Copy them all and there is more chance of a reply.

330000 common conservative, 19, #375 of 1197 🔗

This article is a must-read:

‘Here’s a resolution worth keeping: Stop allowing abusive relationships to continue. If you have ever lived through an emotionally abusive relationship, you already know the signs.’

https://www.aier.org/article/fifteen-signs-youre-in-an-abusive-relationship-with-the-government/

Sound familiar? All the signs are there, dear friends, but our abused fellow human beings have been brainwashed by their abusers into believing they’re being ‘loved’ and ‘cared for.’ Any attempt to involve oneself and talk to our fellow human beings is met with anger, hostility and an immediate defence of the abuser. The abuser is simply ‘protective’ of them and ‘wants to keep’ them ‘safe.’

330005 TC, replying to TC, 27, #376 of 1197 🔗

The Ministry of Truth is doing a recap of the past Covid year.
What really annoys me is our friend Neil Ferguson being referred to by Hugh Pym as “a virus expert”!
Failed mathematical modeller, no life science training and possibly also an amateur hobby programmer of the famed Imperial College program.
No mention of those in his introduction or him breaking lockdown to conjoin with,an admittedly live,person.

330053 ▶▶ DanClarke, replying to TC, 1, #377 of 1197 🔗

Did you hear correctly, maybe he just said ‘a virus’

330087 ▶▶ Nobody2021, replying to TC, 5, #378 of 1197 🔗

Anybody can be an expert in theoretical modelling.

I can predict the weather. I just look out the window. Sometimes I’m right over a few days but rarely longer than a week.

Sometimes I’m only half right or slightly more right than wrong. When I’m wrong it’s because I didn’t take something into account, otherwise I’d have been right.

That is enough to make me an expert in the weather.

330314 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to TC, 1, #379 of 1197 🔗

I think he’s successful due to his excellent predictability rather than his excellent predictions.

330583 ▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to TC, #380 of 1197 🔗

Who’s Hugh Pym?

330009 NickR, replying to NickR, 65, #381 of 1197 🔗

It snowed the last night of 2020

·        8:00 am: I made a snowman
·        8:10 – A feminist passed by and asked me why I didn’t make a snow woman
·        8:15 – So, I made a snow woman
·        8:17 – My feminist neighbour then complained about the snow woman’s voluptuous chest – saying it objectified snow women everywhere
·        8:20 – The gay couple living nearby threw a hissy fit and moaned it could have been 2 snow men instead
·        8:22 – The transgender man / woman…person asked why I didn’t just make 1 snow person but with detachable parts instead
·        8:25 – The vegans at the end of the lane complained about the carrot nose, as veggies are food and are not to decorate snow figures with
·        8:26 – A Jewish woman passing said I was probably being anti-semitic – as the snow woman’s nose was rather big
· 8:28 – A black person nearby then called me a racist because my snow woman is white
· 8:31 – The middle eastern gent across the road demanded the snow woman be covered up & wear a burka
·        8:32 – The feminist neighbour complained again that the broomstick of the snow woman needed to be removed – because it depicted women in a domestic role.
·        8:33 – The council equality officer arrived and threatened me with eviction
·        8.36 – 3 Police cars then arrived in swot gear saying there had been an affray and someone had been offended
·        8:45 – TV news crew from BBC showed up
· 8:47 I was asked if I know the difference between snowmen and snow-women? I replied “Snowballs” and am now called a sexist
·        9:00 – I was on the News as a suspected terrorist, racist, anti-semitic, homophobe sensibility offender, bent on stirring up trouble during difficult weather & hard times
·        9:10 – I was asked if I have any accomplices
· 9.12 – My children were then taken by social services
·        9:29 – Far left protesters offended by everything marched down the street demanding for me to be arrested

By noon it all melted

Moral:

There is no moral to this story.

330019 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to NickR, 2, #382 of 1197 🔗

You nasty bastard offending peoples feelings

330060 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Cecil B, 1, #383 of 1197 🔗

It was pretty inclusive…

330021 ▶▶ common conservative, replying to NickR, 8, #384 of 1197 🔗

Absolutely superb! Cheers, mate, that tickled me.

330024 ▶▶ DanClarke, replying to NickR, 3, #385 of 1197 🔗

Brilliant

330030 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to NickR, 5, #386 of 1197 🔗

That made me laugh!! Thanks a lot!

330058 ▶▶ Hattie, replying to NickR, 5, #387 of 1197 🔗

Haven’t heard the snowball joke since my sister, 13 at the time, in the 1970s blurted it out over Christmas lunch. Strict Catholics and convent educated, the shock emanated around the table, and I remember the table falling silent except for the odd turkey choked splutter until my grandfather let out a roar of laughter.

330164 ▶▶ TC, replying to NickR, #388 of 1197 🔗

Superb!
Well done.

330167 ▶▶ dhid, replying to NickR, #389 of 1197 🔗

Stellar! A very much needed laugh!

330313 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to NickR, #390 of 1197 🔗

All this before your coffee.

330587 ▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to NickR, #391 of 1197 🔗

Snow is Racist!

330010 Jo, replying to Jo, 64, #392 of 1197 🔗

I was asked about 3 months ago to take part in a world-wide survey about Covid-19. Today I got a further email inviting me to answer further questions, mainly about whether I’d had symptoms of Covid, or tests etc and also a few about my “behaviours” (washing hands – yes, I always do that a lot; wearing a mask – never). At the end there was a box for some limited comments. As I had noted feeling angry, “down or depressed” etc on most days, I felt I needed to put this in context, so my additional comments were as follows, for what it’s worth:

I believe that the Govt policy is an overreaction to the threat of the virus. I believe that as this appears to be a world-wide policy, there is a likelihood that we will never regain our freedom and will be managed by any future Govt in the same manner as that of the Chinese Communist Party. I am not at all concerned about Sars-CoV-2 as a threat to my health. I know quite a few people who have had it and are OK. I know it kills some people but so does the flu, as do other respiratory illnesses. We have lived with these viruses since humans emerged and we didn’t imprison or micro-manage people; we cannot “control” a virus. So all my fears are about the Governmental response, and NOT the virus.

330017 ▶▶ Janette, replying to Jo, 4, #393 of 1197 🔗

That’s great Jo. I wonder what they will do with your response.

330029 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Janette, 8, #394 of 1197 🔗

Bin it I should imagine

330048 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Janette, 3, #395 of 1197 🔗

File it in the drawer “never to be opened”.

330095 ▶▶▶ Smelly Melly, replying to Janette, 3, #396 of 1197 🔗

Expect her doors to be kick in in middle of the night and arrested for selfish behaviour, like most on this site.

330321 ▶▶▶ Andrew K, replying to Janette, 1, #397 of 1197 🔗

Mark you down as someone to exterminate.

330387 ▶▶▶ JaneHarry, replying to Janette, #398 of 1197 🔗

keeping it on file for when they open up the gulags

330120 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Jo, 4, #399 of 1197 🔗

I had the survey too. I won’t post what I wrote in the comments.
I almost feel sorry for the person who will read it. I mainly spoke about my anxiety which I developed since spring relating to policies, I am not at all anxious about my health or others.
I happily show you my bloodied hands. I suspect I had covid in early March and passed it on to my parents. My father coughed for 1 day and I pumped my mother full of cough elixir.

330166 ▶▶ dhid, replying to Jo, 2, #400 of 1197 🔗

Trouble is the intellectually challenged who will most likely “process” these surveys, probably won’t understand your comments. They will make their “brain” hurt.

330015 jamesh, 6, #401 of 1197 🔗

Watching the New Year’s Day Concert from Vienna reminded me powerfully that this Kafkaesque “reality” is so far off-the-wall that no-one ought to feel beholden to subscribe to any of the guff that comes from “authority”.
So strange times that words actually fail.

330020 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 42, #402 of 1197 🔗

Just been watching the blue tits, wrens, great tits and robins in the snowy garden – blue tits and wrens nesting in the bird boxes – while drinking a coffee laced with copious amounts of brandy to ward off the chill.

Feeling optimistic but that could be the caffeine and alcohol high so will make an either/or prediction for this year based on nothing other than alcohol, unsubstantiated rumours, malicious gossip and wishful thinking plus 2+2=42 maths then shutting down to start preparing dinner.

Scenario 1 – the screws tighten and everything becomes more and more miserable as the new world order takes over are really begins the great reset and destruction of humanity’s masses to their ideal. War kicks off big time. All doomed. famines. Pestilence etc.

or my favourite:

Scenario 2 – Trump presents evidence to Congress about the voting fraud on Jan 6th, Congress ratify Trump as President, lots of arrests and government sanctioned assassinations worldwide, lots of trouble that soon peters out as leaders are arrested and financial backing disappears, Boris found to have taken financial kickbacks to sign the EU treaty and is arrested, treaty rescinded and WTO rules apply, EU infighting, aliens land to assist mankind to a better future, facebook et al broken up, charged with censorship and election manipulation leading to a really free internet, Hancock, Whitty Vallance SAGE et al arrested with lockdownsceptics hailed as heroes, Britain becomes 4 federal nations and a Republic style system of government over the 4 nations, WHO disbanded, medicine as a money making industry stopped and back to the old way of actually trying to cure people not keep them medicated for life but curing not a lot, UN discredited and disbanded, rebuilt in a different way, systems put in place so this past year can never happen again, after years of hardship everything becomes peaceful and full of happiness – clean energy, end of famines and crop failures, end of the “green” agenda that says CO2 and warming bad but fact based, end of dumbing down the population with crap education mobiles social media etc, voluntary population control to live within the planet’s means, end of wars, humanity goes into space with the aliens.

Either way it will be a hard year or 10, I like to think “good” will triumph in the end.

That’s it from me today – off to drink and cook.

Enjoy your day whatever you are doing and don’t let the bastards grind you down and fuck ’em if they can’t take a joke.

330052 ▶▶ dommo, replying to Awkward Git, 9, #403 of 1197 🔗

scenario 2 please!

330023 BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 6, #404 of 1197 🔗

Someone posted recommendations from SAGE on dealing with the new variant from the 26th Dec. Worth reading.

Masks feature heavily. Masks outdoors mandated, better masks recommended, masks at home recommended.

I see in Northern Ireland they’ve mandated masks for all post primary school kids now in classrooms as well.

They’ve worked so well it only seems right.

330051 ▶▶ DanClarke, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 16, #405 of 1197 🔗

What sort of warped mind wants people’s faces covered up. Its very very sick

330086 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to DanClarke, 10, #406 of 1197 🔗

It IS sick. The effect that it has on people’s behaviour is truly sinister. I find myself trying to overcompensate by smiling and chatting like someone possessed when I go shopping. (That’s probably why I’m never challenged – because they think I’m mad.)

Of course, we now know that the group now known as SAG (redundant ‘e’) is made up of the kind of people that shouldn’t be in the position of controlling our government’s policies. They shouldn’t be in the position of controlling anything , judging by their appalling record.

There is more to it than trying to keep people healthy, obviously.

330231 ▶▶▶ Fiona Walker, replying to DanClarke, 1, #407 of 1197 🔗

Even the Taliban didn’t mask the entire population (just the women, I know).

330598 ▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to DanClarke, #408 of 1197 🔗

Fetishists.

330071 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #409 of 1197 🔗

Is this the variant that Public Health England just said is no biggie?

330115 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #410 of 1197 🔗

This is quite interesting:
https://youtu.be/HczLx0bq0Hw

Welding instructor fired from his college for refusing to wear a mask under the welding mask. He makes some good points showing they contradict themselves.

330025 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 22, #411 of 1197 🔗

Don’t understand nurse Montgomery’s logic

Surely all the non mask wearers must be dead by now?

330038 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Cecil B, 12, #412 of 1197 🔗

Teachers too. There should be none left given the death traps they’ve been working in since Summer. No PPE or social distancing whatsoever from kids with blood on their hands.

330081 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 13, #413 of 1197 🔗

Not to mention all those poor souls working in supermarkets, and without muzzles for months ! Who knows how many have been falling off their perches every single week since we knew there was a ‘virus’ to be feared? Every supermarket must have had to find and train a completely new workforce every week considering the rate they were dropping dead in the aisles.

Wherever do they find people willing to put themselves in harm’s way like that?

330084 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Banjones, 12, #414 of 1197 🔗

Yes, that’s a lot of replacement staff. What’s good about my stores is the replacements look exactly like the originals, which avoids confusion in these difficult times.

330099 ▶▶▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #415 of 1197 🔗

Of course, you may be mistaken now – because they’re not identifiable in their muzzles.
(Though, I must say, in our local shops many of them are bare-faced! And it’s good to be able to stand and chat and laugh while the other zombies stand stiffly virtuous in the queue, their wild eyes darting as they try to dodge all the germs issuing forth like ectoplasm from our mouths.)

330731 ▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Sam Vimes, #416 of 1197 🔗

Hahahaha yes. I was told back at the beginning that one lady “had to self-isolate” but she wan’t tested so it could just have been a cold.

Since then no-one in the supermarket, butchers, veg shops, farm shops etc. nor any posties, delivery drivers, binmen, plumbers, builders . . .

330082 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #417 of 1197 🔗

What ever happened to poor Andrew, the ‘labour voting NQT’ who was ‘terrified of going to work – and so were the kids’ ?

330049 dommo, 5, #418 of 1197 🔗

apologies if this has already been posted, but this is well worth your attention:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1-0XKYAZII&feature=youtu.be

catherine austin fitts gives a long, detailed, and terrifying explanation…

330062 DanClarke, replying to DanClarke, 22, #419 of 1197 🔗

As this drags on, who the hell could think masks are doing anything, at the very least they appear to be making the matter worse. The psycho’s banging on about them need shutting up asap.

330072 ▶▶ l835, replying to DanClarke, 10, #420 of 1197 🔗

Their argument is thinks would be so much worse without masks. They are stupid, beyond contempt and not worth trying to educate.

330074 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to DanClarke, 12, #421 of 1197 🔗

Of course they’re making it worse. They’ve been shown to make it worse. That’s being swept under the carpet very effectively.

330078 ▶▶▶ l835, replying to Banjones, 7, #422 of 1197 🔗

Good news is it’s killing off the believers.

330744 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Banjones, #423 of 1197 🔗

I think it’s deliberate. After all “cases” rocketed when masks were introduced.

Likewise “cases” rocketed again after the flu vax, exactly as some predicted. They want to maximise numbers to bring in the next stages of the plan.

330775 ▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to Banjones, #424 of 1197 🔗

Pull the rug from underneath them.

330176 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to DanClarke, #425 of 1197 🔗

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/mandatory-masks-urged-for-schools-and-work-to-fight-covid-strain-hzjd0trgn paywall but horror suggestion of muzzles in offices . I thought schools had them already?

330772 ▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to DanClarke, #426 of 1197 🔗

There’s more than one psycho running this operation.

330064 Cecil B, #427 of 1197 🔗

Is there an Al Jezeera vaccine or did I misread that?

If there is did Al make the New Years Honours List?

330066 Fingerache Philip, replying to Fingerache Philip, 26, #428 of 1197 🔗

Daily mirror reporting (gloating) how the Gestapo shut down “illegal”raves and parties in London, Essex and Sheffield and dishing out fines and arresting people classed by one top copper as thinking that “enjoying themselves” was more important than LIVES?????
This is the police who have slavishly followed the stupid, pointless and illogical diktats issued by an inept government who seem to be hell bent on DESTROYING futures, businesses and LIVES!!!

330069 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Fingerache Philip, 5, #429 of 1197 🔗

This coppers qualifications are what exactly?

330075 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Cecil B, 5, #430 of 1197 🔗

Scant.

330076 ▶▶▶ iansn, replying to Cecil B, 4, #431 of 1197 🔗

long tongue and brown nose

330104 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to iansn, 3, #432 of 1197 🔗

Remember Muttley and Dick Dastardly in Whacky races?
All together now: “You want a medal, Muttley?,Yeah,yeah,yeah,yeah, eh,eh,eh”

330088 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to Cecil B, #433 of 1197 🔗

I forget but you could check the MSM if you can bear to.

330070 Bruce Reynolds, replying to Bruce Reynolds, 34, #434 of 1197 🔗

Happy New Year sceptics.
The New Year celebrations went well last night,with more destruction of covid signage in the town center and a visit to a covid snitch just to dish out some New Year cheer..a good start to 2021..

330091 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to Bruce Reynolds, 3, #435 of 1197 🔗

Sound of broken glass?

330098 ▶▶▶ Bruce Reynolds, replying to Fingerache Philip, 5, #436 of 1197 🔗

Not on this occasion,a little more up close and personal was the order of the day…

330105 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to Bruce Reynolds, 3, #437 of 1197 🔗

Remind me Bruce, not to get on the wrong side of you.
Well done.

330144 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruce Reynolds, replying to Fingerache Philip, 3, #438 of 1197 🔗

Don’t worry your not a traitor to your country,i have nothing but respect for a fellow sceptic such as yourself…

330180 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to Bruce Reynolds, 3, #439 of 1197 🔗

Thanks for that reply, Bruce

330080 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 11, #440 of 1197 🔗

Second wave, surge, out of control, exponential, new variant, virus delay for months…. Just bring out the new guaranteed deadly Virus 2.0, weld the front doors shut and fucking have done with it will you?

330083 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #441 of 1197 🔗

Don’t forget the latest favourite, MuTaNt.

330633 ▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to DRW, #442 of 1197 🔗

Mute Ant.

330085 DanClarke, replying to DanClarke, 35, #443 of 1197 🔗

Sir Desmond Swayne for PM

330094 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to DanClarke, 4, #444 of 1197 🔗

If only!!

330112 ▶▶ John001, replying to DanClarke, 10, #445 of 1197 🔗

I wish Paul Flynn MP was still in parliament also. He helped expose the H1N1 scandal

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10396382

In the past cross-party alliances have sometimes helped defeat governments.

330174 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to John001, 1, #446 of 1197 🔗

Indeed, another who sadly is no longer with us to tell of their experiences. I regularly forward his Council Of Europe report to people who can’t believe that govts and big pharma collude regarding “pandemics”.

https://assembly.coe.int/CommitteeDocs/2010/20100604_H1N1pandemic_e.pdf

330783 ▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to John001, #447 of 1197 🔗

What about Starmer?

330092 Dorian_Hawkmoon, 6, #448 of 1197 🔗

Thought I’d share. Bit low today but onwards and upwards eh?

September 1st, 1939 by W.H. Auden

“I sit in one of the dives
On Fifty-second Street
Uncertain and afraid
As the clever hopes expire
Of a low dishonest decade:
Waves of anger and fear
Circulate over the bright
And darkened lands of the earth,
Obsessing our private lives;
The unmentionable odour of death
Offends the September night.

Accurate scholarship can
Unearth the whole offence
From Luther until now
That has driven a culture mad,
Find what occurred at Linz,
What huge imago made
A psychopathic god:
I and the public know
What all schoolchildren learn,
Those to whom evil is done
Do evil in return.
Exiled Thucydides knew
All that a speech can say
About Democracy,
And what dictators do,
The elderly rubbish they talk
To an apathetic grave;
Analysed all in his book,
The enlightenment driven away,
The habit-forming pain,
Mismanagement and grief:
We must suffer them all again.
Into this neutral air
Where blind skyscrapers use
Their full height to proclaim
The strength of Collective Man,
Each language pours its vain
Competitive excuse:
But who can live for long
In an euphoric dream;
Out of the mirror they stare,
Imperialism’s face
And the international wrong.
Faces along the bar
Cling to their average day:
The lights must never go out,
The music must always play,
All the conventions conspire
To make this fort assume
The furniture of home;
Lest we should see where we are,
Lost in a haunted wood,
Children afraid of the night
Who have never been happy or good.
The windiest militant trash
Important Persons shout
Is not so crude as our wish:
What mad Nijinsky wrote
About Diaghilev
Is true of the normal heart;
For the error bred in the bone
Of each woman and each man
Craves what it cannot have,
Not universal love
But to be loved alone.
From the conservative dark
Into the ethical life
The dense commuters come,
Repeating their morning vow;
“I will be true to the wife,
I’ll concentrate more on my work,”
And helpless governors wake
To resume their compulsory game:
Who can release them now,
Who can reach the deaf,
Who can speak for the dumb?
All I have is a voice
To undo the folded lie,
The romantic lie in the brain
Of the sensual man-in-the-street
And the lie of Authority
Whose buildings grope the sky:
There is no such thing as the State
And no one exists alone;
Hunger allows no choice
To the citizen or the police;
We must love one another or die.
Defenceless under the night
Our world in stupor lies;
Yet, dotted everywhere,
Ironic points of light
Flash out wherever the Just
Exchange their messages:
May I, composed like them
Of Eros and of dust,
Beleaguered by the same
Negation and despair,
Show an affirming flame.”

xx

330093 George Mc, replying to George Mc, 25, #449 of 1197 🔗

Just heard the BBC radio news and, sure enough, the new strain of the virus is exponentially greater than anything we’ve ever seen before. The multiplicating R vector is germinating with the bio terrestrial filters to create a convoluted spiral within the inner bifurcation. This means that sight alone may be enough to transmit the disease.

We had a hysterical report from a hyperventilating nurse that all the hospitals of the Western hemisphere are so compacted with corpses that even a fly couldn’t get in.

The newly formed YCRTUHWRNB Unit (You Can Really Trust Us Honest We’re Really Not Bullshitters) is saying that this current situation is nothing compared to what will come. The whole of Britain, which has already died, will be revived with the vax but they will all die again.

And so on and on and on and on and on…

330096 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to George Mc, 7, #450 of 1197 🔗

Even Franz Kafka couldn’t come up with a plot like that.

330111 ▶▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to Fingerache Philip, 3, #451 of 1197 🔗

I received a Franz Kafka book for Christmas from Mr Hancart. I shall be reading this, and others this January. I will be having a total news embargo over the next few weeks (apart from LS, and other sites that talk sense.) My brain’s had enough already!

330114 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to HelenaHancart, #452 of 1197 🔗

As long as you don’t turn into a cockroach.
Enjoy your reading.

330122 ▶▶▶▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to Fingerache Philip, 2, #453 of 1197 🔗

I have huge respect for cockroaches. They’re survivors!

330124 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to HelenaHancart, #454 of 1197 🔗

A cockroach for PM?
Oh silly me, we’ve got one already.

330168 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to Fingerache Philip, 1, #455 of 1197 🔗

But now you put it in the context of PM, I’m not so sure!

330786 ▶▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to HelenaHancart, #456 of 1197 🔗

Wait til you finish reading Kafka.

330148 ▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to Fingerache Philip, 4, #457 of 1197 🔗

A bit of trivia – Kafka caught the “Spanish Flu” but survived – he was in his late 30s and the disease seems to have been most fatal to people in their 20s. He was already ill with tuberculosis, also a killer disease and of longer standing, and it was TB that finally killed him.

330101 ▶▶ Too young to be old, replying to George Mc, #458 of 1197 🔗

Bird Box

330103 ▶▶ Too young to be old, replying to George Mc, 3, #459 of 1197 🔗

There is no need to worry, William and Kate can cure diseases and illnesses by smiling at people – get that train out of the siding!

330789 ▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to Too young to be old, #460 of 1197 🔗

And walking barefoot.

330108 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to George Mc, 1, #461 of 1197 🔗

So can we recognise it by the green ectoplasm that issues forth from the unmuzzled mouths of the Granny-killing Unbelievers?

330133 ▶▶ common conservative, replying to George Mc, 8, #462 of 1197 🔗

This contradicts the hysterical ‘blood on their hands’ Montgomery who says the ‘severity of illness caused by [the new strain] is no worse or better than the first one. It’s not a nastier type of the virus and its transmissibility is indeed a little bit higher…it’s not the virus. It’s people…this isn’t the virus; this is people…’

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-55479018

This despicable human being hysterically goes on to blame people, focusing on human behaviour while neglecting to speak of the transmissibility of the virus regardless of human ‘intervention.’ This is utterly deceitful and inexcusable.

330409 ▶▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to common conservative, 1, #463 of 1197 🔗

Complain to the GMC about him. He won’t be struck off, but it will inconvenience him greatly, correspondence with solicitors etc……

330097 Too young to be old, replying to Too young to be old, 10, #464 of 1197 🔗

Its a fact that those people who favour lockdowns and other draconian measures are the ones who have their full salaries, job security, and in the case of MPs, a £10,000 Covid Bonus at the start of these proceedings.

We are not in this together.

A General Election would sort out who is in it with us.

330123 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to Too young to be old, 3, #465 of 1197 🔗

Yes but would there be an anti lockdown political party?

330138 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Fingerache Philip, 6, #466 of 1197 🔗

There are already several – Reclaim, Heritage and Reform that I know of. I’ll be happy to vote for any of those three if they put up a candidate in my constituency.

Presumably eventually a party of the left will come out properly against lockdowns. Iirc some of the SDP leadership made some decent antilockdown noises early on, but I don’t know if that position was formalised or sustained.

330178 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to Mark, 1, #467 of 1197 🔗

Thanks for that information, Mark

330260 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 2, #468 of 1197 🔗

I seem to remember their leader William Clouston made some fairly strong anti-lockdown statements but their official position is a bit too accepting of the “something must be done” narrative:

https://sdp.org.uk/policies/covid-19-pandemic/

330102 godowneasy, replying to godowneasy, 17, #469 of 1197 🔗

Ireland update summary – absolutely rampant, out of control, worst case scenario, explosive impacts, extreme high risk, severe impact, highest guard, disproportionate, surge, rising sharply, difficult weeks ahead, intolerable, untenable and unconscionable situation, third wave, vaccines, happy new year.

330137 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to godowneasy, 4, #470 of 1197 🔗

Excellent summary, I would just like to add that breaking news is adding “exponential, masks, overrun, still shielding”

330141 ▶▶▶ godowneasy, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #471 of 1197 🔗

Noted thank you – I didn’t bother to link to the rte article but I found this bit hilarious “ The situation in Ireland is worse than the number of daily new cases announced since Christmas would suggest.
The computer system for notifying infectious diseases is old and was designed to report sporadic cases on a weekly basis and was not for the kind of numbers that are now being seen.  “

So their system can’t count above a couple of thousand. ! That’s really good to hear because I’m relying on total incompetence to save everyone from a fate worse than death.

330208 ▶▶ suitejb, replying to godowneasy, #472 of 1197 🔗

Someone got a thesaurus for Christmas!

330243 ▶▶ Andrew K, replying to godowneasy, #473 of 1197 🔗

Is that from the Daily Express lexicon?

330302 ▶▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Andrew K, #474 of 1197 🔗

All words were sucked out of an article on RTE….

330106 Banjones, replying to Banjones, 7, #475 of 1197 🔗

We need more front-line news. My best beloved went to the ”covid pod” at the hospital today (necessary because of medical procedure next week) and said there was one car in front, and none waiting.
It’s not surprising that woman was arrested in Gloucester. Good on her. But we need to hear more from the horses’ mouths.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/550598

330205 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Banjones, 22, #476 of 1197 🔗

My son came out of hospital on Wednesday, self discharged because they couldn’t give him his life saving medication till 6th January so what was the point of staying in hospital. I went to pick him up. Not many ambulances at the emergency entrance. Not many cars at the drop-off A&E entrance. I parked on the red lines, had a chat with a totally affable security bloke. Nobody else in sight. My son got wheeled from the other end of the hospital to me, he said all the corridors deserted, it’s like a ghost town.

Postscript: Son was promised emergency delivery of medicine yesterday (Thursday). He called the delivery company yesterday, they said the earliest they could do it would be Tuesday. He pointed out it was an emergency delivery, so they said they would courier it over Saturday. I reckon we have a less than 50% chance of getting it before next week.

At every step of the way we have met obstacles in getting this treatment, which we’ve been seeking since 24th November. Nobody is trying to stop him having the treatment but the system hasn’t worked to get it to him. The system is broken. It stops working whenever it encounters someone who is incompetent or lazy or who just doesn’t care. We have encountered all three over the last 6 weeks. He has survived in spite of the NHS not because of it.

The NHS is overwhelmed because it is run very badly by jobsworths who only care about their own career prospects and tax funded benefits.

330242 ▶▶▶ Suey, replying to thinkaboutit, 9, #477 of 1197 🔗

Have upticked you, because I want you to know that your testimony has been read and digested. I send your son – and you and your family – every good wish.

330269 ▶▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Suey, #478 of 1197 🔗

Thank you Suey.

330107 George Mc, replying to George Mc, 14, #479 of 1197 🔗

And once again I note that dialectic whereby the more time passes, the less there is to really fear but the more psychotically hyperbolic the fear wanking becomes. It ought to be hilarious but it’s soul crushingly depressing not to say SO FUCKING BORING!!!!

And the worst part is that I know people who are taking this seriously. More to the point: this excrement will be used to push through mandatory vaccines, close down more and more areas of employment, justify police state measures etc.

330118 ▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to George Mc, 19, #480 of 1197 🔗

I’m totally with you. I’m going to just shut most of it out this coming month. Had a good New Year. Had drinks outside with the neighbours at 12.00, and watched a big ‘ole firework display over yonder, on the nearby marshes! Lots of people I haven’t heard from this year, got in contact too. It’s started on a positive note and as far as I’m concerned its going to continue. I’m so over it now. I’m bored stupid of their lies, deceit, fraud and stupidity. I’m just not going allow the bullshit to affect me anymore. Sod them all to hell! Happy, hopeful New Year everyone!

330147 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to George Mc, 3, #481 of 1197 🔗

Fear wanking 😀

330109 l835, replying to l835, -4, #482 of 1197 🔗

Really looking forward to the new series of Dr Who on bbc1. But I think they are over -hyping it by showing daily trailers at breakfast, noon, six & nine plus every half hour on the radio…

330126 ▶▶ mj, replying to l835, 24, #483 of 1197 🔗

gave up on Doctor Who a few years back when it became woke propaganda .

330128 ▶▶▶ EllGee, replying to mj, -4, #484 of 1197 🔗

Have to give it a go for John Barrowman returning

330143 ▶▶▶ robnicholson, replying to mj, #485 of 1197 🔗

Yeah same here – probably might watch it on FFWD

330130 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to l835, 10, #486 of 1197 🔗

I hope you’re joking… I don’t think we should be supporting the Government’s primary propaganda machine.

https://www.defundbbc.uk/

330797 ▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to l835, #487 of 1197 🔗

Splice all the trailers together and you might get the complete show.

330113 Fingerache Philip, 27, #488 of 1197 🔗

Anything that the national press can do the loathsome Wolverhampton Express and Star can easily match: “Police called to more than 700 Covid breaches” including one party of 50″.
To those 50 and all the other party goers with “blood on their hands” all over the country: you are all heroes who will be honoured when our time comes.

330117 swedenborg, 10, #489 of 1197 🔗

An extremely good twitter read which has got a lot of attention

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1341452623526785024.html

”Initially doubling down on failed recommendations which cause enormous, grotesque collateral harms is something I expect from politicians — such is the nature of politics, the dynamics of power. But not from scientists. (And not from “my” team, to put it crudely. I was naive.)”

330121 Lockdown_Lunacy, 38, #490 of 1197 🔗

Well, nobody interrupted my ‘party’ of 13 last night. Perhaps they should have done because I probably wouldn’t have this headache now if they did…

Happy new year all.

330127 Nobody2021, replying to Nobody2021, 8, #491 of 1197 🔗

The story of Frankenstein’s Monster is an interesting one.

In an effort to discover the secret of life and death Victor Frankenstein creates a monster. What he didn’t count on was that the monster would take on a life of it’s own and not behave as he would have liked.

The parellel with where we are today is that the virus or it’s overall effect is a monster created by scientists and governments.

Imagine if the effect of this virus was the same as the flu. There would be no panic and it would be dealt with just like we have done with flu for decades.

But since it was marginally worse than the flu it was decided that they needed to turn it into a monster that people would be scared of. And they succeeded.

So now even if it’s effect on the world was brought down to flu levels or lower it would not be enough. The monster must be killed. For some reason this monster even if tamed should not be allowed to live like all the other “monsters” that we live with.

330186 ▶▶ wayno, replying to Nobody2021, #492 of 1197 🔗

i watched smallfoot kids film yesterday (with the kid incase your wondering:)) i recomend it even if you dont have kids, the story line has some wonderful parraells with this shitstorm, do as your told, dont question, the questioners are crazy outcasts (sceptics) etc.. If you have prime its free on Amazon.

330799 ▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to Nobody2021, #493 of 1197 🔗

In Mary Shelley’s book the monster learns how to speak some French. The Covid monster isn’t that smart.

330129 Helen, 2, #494 of 1197 🔗

More on Prof Montgomery

He is one of the Authors of the following report in The Lancet. Published Online December 2, 2020 https://doi.org/10.1016/ S0140-6736(20)32290-X

The 2020 report of The Lancet Countdown on health and climate change: responding to converging crises

Nick Watts, Markus Amann, Nigel Arnell, Sonja Ayeb-Karlsson, Jessica Beagley, Kristine Belesova, Maxwell Boykoff, Peter Byass, Wenjia Cai, Diarmid Campbell-Lendrum, Stuart Capstick, Jonathan Chambers, Samantha Coleman, Carole Dalin, Meaghan Daly, Niheer Dasandi,
Shouro Dasgupta, Michael Davies, Claudia Di Napoli, Paula Dominguez-Salas, Paul Drummond, Robert Dubrow, Kristie L Ebi, Matthew Eckelman, Paul Ekins, Luis E Escobar, Lucien Georgeson, Su Golder, Delia Grace, Hilary Graham, Paul Haggar, Ian Hamilton, Stella Hartinger, Jeremy Hess, Shih-Che Hsu, Nick Hughes, Slava Jankin Mikhaylov, Marcia P Jimenez, Ilan Kelman, Harry Kennard, Gregor Kiesewetter, Patrick L Kinney,
Tord Kjellstrom, Dominic Kniveton, Pete Lampard, Bruno Lemke, Yang Liu, Zhao Liu, Melissa Lott, Rachel Lowe, Jaime Martinez-Urtaza, Mark Maslin, Lucy McAllister, Alice McGushin, Celia McMichael, James Milner, Maziar Moradi-Lakeh, Karyn Morrissey, Simon Munzert, Kris A Murray, Tara Neville, Maria Nilsson, Maquins Odhiambo Sewe, Tadj Oreszczyn, Matthias Otto, Fereidoon Owfi, Olivia Pearman, David Pencheon, Ruth Quinn, Mahnaz Rabbaniha, Elizabeth Robinson, Joacim Rocklöv, Marina Romanello, Jan C Semenza, Jodi Sherman, Liuhua Shi, Marco Springmann, Meisam Tabatabaei, Jonathon Taylor, Joaquin Triñanes, Joy Shumake-Guillemot, Bryan Vu, Paul Wilkinson, Matthew Winning, Peng Gong*, Hugh Montgomery* , Anthony Costello*

Health, climate change, and COVID-19
As of Nov 9, 2020, the COVID-19 pandemic has spread to 190 countries, with more than 50 493 000 cases confirmed and more than 1 257 700 deaths recorded.

(…………………………..go to Panel 1 page 4 to read the rest)

The solution to one economic and public health crisis must not exacerbate another, and, in the long term, the response to COVID-19 and climate change will be the most successful most successful when they are closely aligned.

https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0140-6736%2820%2932290-X

330131 Jo, replying to Jo, 4, #495 of 1197 🔗

Has anyone else read this email exchange concerning the Pfizer vaccine and how it was made? I would really like someone knowledgeable about the creation of vaccines to comment as I am not certain I understand its full relevance.

https://hive.blog/worldnews/@francesleader/email-exchange-with-uk-mhra-exposing-the-genomic-sequence-of-sarscov2

330162 ▶▶ this is my username, replying to Jo, 2, #496 of 1197 🔗

That looks interesting. The CDC states that the virus has never been isolated, so they cannot have its genetic sequence.

330219 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to this is my username, 1, #497 of 1197 🔗

As does the HSE in Ireland, no isolated virus or data to show it has been done anywhere.

330211 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Jo, 1, #498 of 1197 🔗

Samuel Eckert, a Swiss based business person who has became very famous in German speaking areas as a vocal and very knowledgeable person reviewing and researching official corona data, initially on YT.
A few weeks ago he challenged Drosten to publish his data and prove the virus exits. There is a monetary “award” for Drosten.

Isolate Winter English – Samuel Eckert

330134 Caramel, 7, #499 of 1197 🔗

So in Victoria the government decided to ruin people’s new years. Amongst other changes, the limit on home gatherings was reduced from 30 to 15. So there were road sign lights announcing that gathering limits on NYE.

Department of Health and Human Services Victoria | Coronavirus update for Victoria – 31 December 2020 (dhhs.vic.gov.au)

I went to a shopping centre today and you have to leave your contact details before browsing. And QR codes everywhere.

330135 danny, replying to danny, 43, #500 of 1197 🔗

Reading the comments here today (my own included) it really struck me how we are up against a question of faith now.
Quote all the stats and data and yearly mortality rates we like, it is all met with the absolute answer of “I believe”.
Covid has become an article of faith, in the face of which, all dissent should be ignored and certainly not engaged with.
Have had so many conversations that begin amicably enough, until a point where they put up their hands, stating that they “don’t know about all that”, choosing not to engage.
Facts and stats cannot compete with “feeling and just knowing”.
Really hard to see a way to combat that.

330146 ▶▶ Mark, replying to danny, 12, #501 of 1197 🔗

Nobody wants to be outside the bounds of decency.

The government propagandists and manipulators (these are expensive top professionals in those fields, remember, paid for with your own tax payments and money borrowed against future such payments), enthusiastically aided by collaborators among the media academic and other “elites” and “influencers”, have systematically marginalised and demonised dissent in order to achieve that position. This is not new, just quicker and more intensive – it’s been done on pc issues for decades

Part of this manipulative policy has been to create complicity. Nobody wants to admit to having been fooled, either.

So conformist people now do the manipulators’ jobs for them, actively avoiding exposure to dissenting information and opinion, as much out of fear that it might be correct as of the opposite.

330198 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to danny, 11, #502 of 1197 🔗

As I have not been able to work for 3 months (hospitality) now, and have very few contacts with sheeple, I am always surprised if I come across a person who is a “believer”. I just cannot grasp that people do not bother to do their own research or are not open to discussion.
Many prefer to be like the 3 monkeys.

330145 Nobody2021, replying to Nobody2021, 6, #503 of 1197 🔗

This may come across as slightly conceited but how I judge expertise (generally) is whether I could attain that level given enough time.

There are things that I know I could never be good at but there are plenty of things that I know I could do and probably be better than some/many who may have spent years in a particular field.

There’s also an old addage that people who are confident in what they do don’t need to brag about it.

So whenever I’m confronted by an expert I will firstly try to gauge whether their area of expertise is so complicated that I could never understand it. I will then consider if given enough time I could be more expert in such a field. I will then take a stance on whether this person is indeed an expert, i.e. more expert than I could be or perhaps they are merely blowing their own trumpet to seem more expert than they actually are.

330227 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Nobody2021, 3, #504 of 1197 🔗

Indeed

And a true expert, as opposed to a bullshit artist or someone with an agenda, should be able to explain their point in layman’s terms while remaining convincing

And a truly able cabinet minister or MP or journalist should be able to question said experts and get a pretty good idea of whether they are talking nonsense or not, by asking for evidence of claims, context, comparisons, and not just take what experts say on trust

330149 Jo Dominich, replying to Jo Dominich, 14, #505 of 1197 🔗

4/4
SAGE will no doubt tell the Prime Minister and Secretary of State for Health that Tier 4 must continue for another 2-3 months and, without taking any further independent advice or giving serious consideration to the facts and the real data, will do as they say. So, another massive loss to our GDP, mass unemployment and more deaths from the NHS cancellation of Diagnostic services, life saving treatment, elective surgery and other key services.

As a citizen I have to say I am, like you, deeply and profoundly concerned about the state of my country and the future of its citizens but more importantly, the future of our young people. We have, I am afraid to say, a Cabinet, a Prime Minister and SAGE that are:

·       Totally unfit for purpose
·       Outright, unashamed, pathological liars
·       Utterly incapable of serious thought and analysis of real time data; and
·       Seem to be intent on destroying not only the country but its citizens, the employment market and businesses.

Our only hope Sir Desmond lies with MPs of great integrity like yourself and the others in the CRG group. I set out below a table of economic and social consequences of the first lockdown and the restrictions. If I have the time and can obtain some unit costs, I will put my former Management Consultants hat on and attempt to produce a rough Cost Benefit analysis for you.

Let’s hope the New Year will bring some kind of revolution by the British people and that the CRG group can increase their numbers enough to vote this out.

330245 ▶▶ Leaky, replying to Jo Dominich, 4, #506 of 1197 🔗

Thank you, Jo, for sharing your excellent letter to Sir Desmond Swayne. My own MP, Sir Christopher Chope, is also a member of CRG and I wrote a similar letter to him last week. Sadly, as you indicate in your letter, there are very few MPs on either side of the House who have sufficient integrity, or the will, to do anything about this evil regime.
We are left, therefore, with your call to action expressed in the first half of your final sentence…

330150 Jo Dominich, replying to Jo Dominich, 9, #507 of 1197 🔗

3/4
At the present time, SAGE, Sir Simon Stevens and NHS Managers are saying they are overwhelmed. They are not. Data from the Government and NHS dashboards and the ZOE App show this not to be the case, these pressures are the same every winter. That is another question, year on year the NHS complain about winter pressures yet year on year they spectacularly fail to plan for them (Strategic Planning being a totally alien concept within the NHS) or to ring-fence revenue to manage them.

I am going to be bold here and say, having studied, in-depth, much of the propaganda, fake news, manufactured hysteria and actual data and statistics I have come to the conclusion that:

·       There is no pandemic and never has been. We have a seasonal respiratory virus slightly stronger than the flu circulating from which 99.9% survive
·       There is no concerning new variant that transmits faster than the current one. WHO said it was not new, they had known about it since September and there was no evidence to suggest it transmitted any faster. The rest of the world is not concerned about it at all. It is only here in the UK
·       SAGE, The Secretary of State for Health, the Prime Minister and Sir Simon Stevens have now become addicted to power and have serious messianic tendencies. They have lost all reason in their unashamed power grab and the gross misuse of public money to further increase their own wealth and those of their friends
·       Witty, Valance and Ferguson are unfit for their jobs. They produced falsified and manipulated data and wild models predicting 4,000 deaths a day to bounce us into Lockdown 2. They did the same for what amounts to Lockdown 3 yet have not produced a single piece of bona fide data or evidence to support their contentions. You are right to request that a totally independent of Statisticians, Economists etc are given this data for clear analysis before any serious decisions are made that will cause economic devastation
·       They are also now saying that Tier 4 will not contain the spread of this new variant so that the schools will have to remain closed until February half term. Once again, not a single shred of evidence to suggest the virus is spreading at all. It is curious also that the Flu and Pneumonia have mysteriously disappeared from the Causes of Death list
·       The Universities have now gone full to online line learning. It seems to me therefore, that University lecturers should be immediately furloughed as should teachers be as they are not working their jobs currently not being required

330177 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to Jo Dominich, 8, #508 of 1197 🔗

I don’t know about ”furloughed” – they should be handed their P45s if they’ve ever refused to go in to school. That should concentrate their tiny minds. Perhaps paying them the minimum wage might be instructive in the way of the world.

330152 Helen, 1, #509 of 1197 🔗

More on Prof Montgomery
AI and Big Data

BUILDING THE HOSPITAL OF 2030

https://ap-verlag.de/clickandbuilds/WordPress/MyCMS4/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Aruba_Hospital-2030_Report.pdf

How mobile technology and IoT is shaping the future healthcare experience for patients and caregivers.

Executive summary
The hospital that you walk into in 2030 may look very different from the one you know today. With mobile technology now at the centre of how we obtain information, and the rise of connected devices that can detect vital medical information with no more than a touch, our ability to achieve a quick and precise diagnosis will be increased drastically. With the added ability to store, share and review patient information in the cloud, caregivers too will find that the ability to do their job becomes easier.
However the barriers to achieving a digitised health service are significant, and many. Regulations must be adhered to, patients consulted with, and with the addition of every connected device comes the risk of data security breach. These concerns must not be ignored, but neither can they be allowed to stand in the way of progress.
This report examines how technology is likely to transform healthcare over the next decade, looking at the changing nature of the patient experience, opportunities for clinicians and what the hospital of the future might be like. It is based on interviews with senior healthcare leaders, commissioned by Aruba, and in-depth views from two renowned experts, UCL Professor of Intensive Care Medicine Dr. Hugh Montgomery, and Digital Health Futurist Maneesh Juneja.

330153 Jo Dominich, 10, #510 of 1197 🔗

2/4
The NHS is an inverted triangle as follows:

file:///C:/Users/Margaret/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image002.png

The larger mass of area at the top is populated by tiers and tiers of managers, deputy managers (yes, everyone in the NHS has a deputy), administrators and non-productive non clinical jobs. The small area at the bottom of the triangle is the staff on the front line who deliver the actual service. Which is how the NHS always manage to grab the public debate. They have been axing front line services and acute beds for years now whilst the tiers of non-productive managers increase. The UK now has the lowest number of acute beds in the developed world. I would expect to see mass scale redundancies in the management tiers of the NHS and the revenue shifted to increasing front line services and creating more acute beds.

At the present time, SAGE, Sir Simon Stevens and NHS Managers are saying they are overwhelmed. They are not. Data from the Government and NHS dashboards and the ZOE App show this not to be the case, these pressures are the same every winter. That is another question, year on year the NHS complain about winter pressures yet year on year they spectacularly fail to plan for them (Strategic Planning being a totally alien concept within the NHS) or to ring-fence revenue to manage them.

330157 Jo Dominich, replying to Jo Dominich, 15, #511 of 1197 🔗

1/4 This is a letter I have written to Sir Desmond Swayne. I’m now starting on a complaint to the GMC re Professor Montgomery, that will take me a couple of days but I will send it to Toby when it is done.

I am writing to you to express my sincere thanks for your brilliant speech in the House of Commons on Wednesday, 30th December 2020. It seems to me that you, alongside the other MPs in the CRG are the only representatives in Parliament who have a grasp of the truth and the reality of the situation and how dangerous the advice from SAGE is as it is not in any way based on facts and data but on wild assumptions and modelling.

I was impressed that you questioned the legitimacy of Neil Ferguson being considered one of the ‘experts’ and being extensively interviewed in the media without question. This is deeply concerning given the disastrous consequences of his seriously flawed, in fact, I would go as far as to say fraudulent, modelling which has resulted in the destruction of the British economy.

Once again, thousands are being made unemployed, thousands of more businesses are being destroyed, claims to the DWP have soared and the OBR have forecast that 8m people will be unemployed by mid to late Summer of this year, all in the name of protecting the NHS, an extremely badly managed, failing organisation and has been so for years. They currently take £145bn of public money annually and deliver, in the main, an extremely poor quality, low level and often, dangerous service delivery (20,000 people per year die as a direct result of NHS medical malpractice errors). The best way the failures in the NHS can be portrayed is if you use a triangle as an analogy. So, high performing organisations focussed on quality service delivery and performance are akin to a normal triangle:


file:///C:/Users/Margaret/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image002.png

A good quality organisation would have a management structure that comprises the top, smallest area of the triangle. Managers responsible for delivering services would form a small area in the middle of the triangle and the greater mass of the triangle, the bottom part of it, are the staff that deliver the services. So, there are many more staff at the lower tier of the triangle because they are frontline facing and fewer staff at managerial levels.

330333 ▶▶ Ianric, replying to Jo Dominich, 5, #512 of 1197 🔗

These are issues I have raised before in regards to the NHS and lockdowns :-

The NHS has become a covid only service and treatment has stopped for other illnesses. As a result of this huge numbers are suffering and dying. Why do you worship an organization which has stopped providing health care? How would you feel if another public service did the same thing? For instance, the fire brigade decides to only respond to vehicle accidents and will not respond to other calls. If this policy was adopted the fire brigade would not come if your house caught fire. Would you clap for and praise the fire service? How would you feel if the private sector adapted a policy of only providing limited goods and services? For instance, all the supermarket chains adapt a policy of only selling apples in their fruit and veg section, only selling corn flakes in their cereal section and only salad cream in their condiments section.

Why should our taxes pay for the NHS when we don’t have access to it?

The justification for draconian lockdowns which has prevented people seeing family and friends, destroyed jobs and businesses is to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed but in return the NHS will not treat people for non covid conditions. How would you feel if other public services did the same? Why do you think this is acceptable? Again using the example of the fire service. To prevent the fire service being overwhelmed with having to respond to vehicle accidents, there are limits how many days a week people can drive vehicles, there is a national speed limit, we can’t drive after a certain time, there are limits how many can travel in cars. This creates hardship but in return the fire service will attend non vehicle crash incidents. Would you think this was fair?

Flu is an infectious disease which puts the NHS under strain every winter. It is not suggested the country is placed under house arrest, our civil liberties taken and businesses forced to close to prevent further infection. This policy has been adopted with covid. Can you explain the difference?

To justify draconian lockdowns you would expect the NHS and other public bodies to provide irrefutable evidence. I sent a FOI request to the NHS asking for evidence of asymptomatic transmission which they were unable to answer. How can the NHS be worshiped if they can’t provide evidence to justify lockdowns?

330574 ▶▶▶ Jo Dominich, replying to Ianric, #513 of 1197 🔗

Excellent questions and brilliant analogies. If we can get organised, we could use some of these.

330169 Charlie Blue, 5, #514 of 1197 🔗
330170 DanClarke, 9, #515 of 1197 🔗

I am of the belief that Dumb and Dumber could be told anything now and would run with it

330171 Helen, replying to Helen, 4, #516 of 1197 🔗

More on Prof Montgomery….. AI, Big Data, CommonPass, Aruba Hewlett Packard enterprise company

How mobile technology and IoT is shaping the future healthcare experience for patients and caregivers.

Executive summary
The hospital that you walk into in 2030 may look very different from the one you know today.

With mobile technology now at the centre of how we obtain information, and the rise of connected devices that can detect vital medical information with no more than a touch, our ability to achieve a quick and precise diagnosis will be increased drastically. With the added ability to store, share and review patient information in the cloud, caregivers too will find that the ability to do their job becomes easier.
However the barriers to achieving a digitised health service are significant, and many. Regulations must be adhered to, patients consulted with, and with the addition of every connected device comes the risk of data security breach. These concerns must not be ignored, but neither can they be allowed to stand in the way of progress.

This report examines how technology is likely to transform healthcare over the next decade, looking at the changing nature of the patient experience, opportunities for clinicians and what the hospital of the future might be like. It is based on interviews with senior healthcare leaders, commissioned by Aruba, and in-depth views from two renowned experts, UCL Professor of Intensive Care Medicine Dr. Hugh Montgomery , and Digital Health Futurist Maneesh Juneja.

Putting people back in the driving seat of their own health is not limited to how they monitor and treat conditions. It also relates to security of data, another area in which experts anticipate significant changes in the next decade. “A big question is who is going to hold your data,” says Dr. Hugh Montgomery, Professor of Intensive Care Medicine at University College London. “At the moment it’s me, or at least it’s my hospital. That may start changing in in that you might have access to, and even curate, your own data, and grant permissions to other doctors or nurses to see them or not. So it might be that you’ve decided that because you had a termination of pregnancy at 16, or you broke your wrist at 17, or had a mental health problem at 19, you’re going to keep that off your records. There is an increasing move towards patient-curated and patient-owned data.”

Aruba are Hewlett Packard enterprise company

https://ap-verlag.de/clickandbuilds/WordPress/MyCMS4/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Aruba_Hospital-2030_Report.pdf

330191 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Helen, 8, #517 of 1197 🔗

Strangely enough, patient-curated and patient-owned data is not a bad idea.
Nobody else gets it, except on a strict need to know basis.
They can start with me owning my vaccination status.

330400 ▶▶▶ Helen, replying to Kevin 2, #518 of 1197 🔗

Yes, perhaps Kevin

But hysterical Prof M is not just any-old ICU doctor with genuine concerns about ICUs but is also Climate Change activist who is working on concepts to connect both crisis and also big data health passes with an HP company.

330172 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 15, #519 of 1197 🔗

On Hootenanny with Jools Holland, a singer Róisín Murphy, smuggled some of her own words into a version of Bowie’s Let’s Dance. The words as I recall them were “how dare you tell me I can’t dance for the rest of my life?”

They seemed rather heartfelt words. Perhaps she had a friend or relative who had a terminal condition and just wanted to go out clubbing one more time but couldn’t because of Lockdown. Just a guess on my part.

330175 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to OKUK, 4, #520 of 1197 🔗

And did you notice that only one silly cow of all about 25 was wearing a face nappy?

330229 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Fingerache Philip, 1, #521 of 1197 🔗

Yes, I was thinking well she can’t be the trombonist.

330214 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to OKUK, #522 of 1197 🔗

She is fantastic. I heard those lyrics myself and had to go back to the original to be sure I hadn’t just been mishearing it all these years

330179 Steeve, 6, #523 of 1197 🔗

Many thanks for all the graphs, charts statistics & articles.
Many thanks to all that have written letters of all kinds
Many thanks for posts of real life encounters. They have not been a waste of time.(might feel that way)
I would say there is some kind of a split on here between 1 there is a new isolated virus and 2 those that say that it has not been Isolated. In terms of the attack on personal freedoms and democracy I do not think there is much that divides us and a lot that unites.
From time to time it might feel like somewhere to let off steam – FULLSTOP
In footballing terms those that own the narrative can change the goalposts. Therefore when the government is challenged all VAR decisions will go their way.
I would encourage everyone to carry on and not give up. Apply pressure!
My HOPE is because of CONTINUED pressure, those that own the narrative will score a blatant own goal and there will be no need for VAR.

Trust it makes some sense – Happy New Year

330182 Jo, replying to Jo, 43, #524 of 1197 🔗

A bit of a laugh – my partner just drove the road (an A road) by the river and saw a woman swerving round another woman so widely that she fell into the road and a car had to slow down in order not to hit her. And guess who helped her up off the road? The woman she had been swerving to avoid!

330185 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Jo, 19, #525 of 1197 🔗

Swervers are the true covidiots!

330225 ▶▶ Wolver, replying to Jo, 12, #526 of 1197 🔗

Seen similar situations meany times, people have completely lost the ability to balance risk. Government and msm have really done a job on them.

330270 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Wolver, 3, #527 of 1197 🔗

Seems that she just lost the ability to balance in this case

330183 Silke David, replying to Silke David, 3, #528 of 1197 🔗

Live stream demonstration Innsbruck Austria

https://youtu.be/2sqjPygMYP0

330190 ▶▶ this is my username, replying to Silke David, #529 of 1197 🔗
330184 Dodderydude, replying to Dodderydude, 17, #530 of 1197 🔗

This article in the DM today about another young, healthy ‘covid19 victim’.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9104293/Dont-sleep-wont-wake-words-Covid-stricken-father-died.html#comments

According to the article he was admitted to hospital with severe stomach pains. Was then placed on a ventilator and, not surprisingly, died. No mention of breathing problems and he appears to have been completely lucid before being ventilated. My fundamental question, which the newspaper fails to address, is why was he placed on a ventilator? Do journalists and the idiot BTL contributors even understand the medical function of ventilators and the risk from using them? Even worse, do medical staff even understand the concept of ventilators? And at what point was he tested +ve for covid? Doesn’t tell us but simply implies his stomach problems were the result of covid19.

330212 ▶▶ mj, replying to Dodderydude, 4, #531 of 1197 🔗

stomach problem due to swallowing too much bullshit?

330213 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Dodderydude, 2, #532 of 1197 🔗

There is certainly a reason why they have been using ventilators in such a way, given they’ve been known to be a dangerous last resort treatment.

One claim I saw was that it means less one to one attention from staff is required so minimises the infection risk to them. I don’t know how valid that is.

330236 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 3, #533 of 1197 🔗

ITU should be 1:1 but could be 1 nurse to 2 patients. A person who is ventilated needs more care not less.

330235 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Dodderydude, 11, #534 of 1197 🔗

No co morbidities but a medical condition beforehand, severe stomach pains. Possibly gastroenteritis, pancreatitis, gall bladder, appendicitis, peritonitis or abdominal aortic aneurysm. If he was on a ventilator then that would suggest a surgical procedure and he was post-op. Could have become SARS-CoV-2 positive in hospital. The problem is that as it has been put down as a CoViD19 death there is unlikely to be an autopsy never mind an inquest.

330244 ▶▶ Mayo, replying to Dodderydude, #535 of 1197 🔗

No mention of breathing problems and he appears to have been completely lucid before being ventilated.

Covid might still be the cause of death. Covid is NOT flu. It presents quite differently in many patients. This has been known about since March

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/04/why-don-t-some-coronavirus-patients-sense-their-alarmingly-low-oxygen-levels

Why don’t some coronavirus patients sense their alarmingly low oxygen levels?

330288 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Mayo, 2, #536 of 1197 🔗

I am aware that there are reports of patients with oxygen saturations of around 60% but were conscious and lucid. What wasn’t apparent was whether those figures were confirmed by arterial blood gases.
Oximetry reports the amount of oxygen carried in the blood as a percentage.
Under normal circumstances a healthy person who does not have COPD oxygen saturation should by >95%, if saturations fall between 90% and 95% then oxygen is administered titrated to oxygen saturations. Below 90% requires “100%” oxygen at 15 litres a minute, if long term this needs to be humidified.
For a COPD patient who depends on the hypoxic drive to breathe acceptable saturations are 88%-92%, below this oxygen has to be titrated to saturations (too much and the patient risks respiratory arrest)
It is feasible that a) the absorption/emission frequencies of oxyhaemoglobin are changed because of changes to blood by the virus, thus reducing the efficiency of the pulse oximeter.
b) the virus affected the oxygen level sensor cells
or
c) the body can actually survive with low oxygen levels for a period of time.

330296 ▶▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Mayo, 3, #537 of 1197 🔗

Might be but very unlikely. CCP Virus death is incredibly rare for an individual that age. Stomach pains for admission? I smell fake news.

330299 ▶▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to nottingham69, 5, #538 of 1197 🔗

i refer to my earlier post. I suspect surgical intervention.

330255 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Dodderydude, 8, #539 of 1197 🔗

Newspapers have always liked a human interest story, but in the current climate it’s irresponsible to publish stories like this. Either cynical attempt to sell papers, or to ramp up fear, or both

Public health decisions must be based on broad evidence, not anecdotes

330292 ▶▶▶ jonathan Palmer, replying to Julian, 6, #540 of 1197 🔗

Hard hitting emotional messaging courtesy of Sage,lest we forget.

330187 Smelly Melly, replying to Smelly Melly, 6, #541 of 1197 🔗

Talking to an almost sceptical friend last night (he still wears a mask although he thinks its bollocks). He confirmed to me about Costco, no face covering no entry and to hell with exemption cards and laws.

However, I suspect the hysteria to be ramped up in the next few months and exemption cards and discrimination laws ignored. What I’m planning is to get the most ludicrous but acceptable to the zealots face covering there is. At a restaurant the other week one of the waiters was wearing a piece of perspex that was slightly smaller that a credit card in front of his mouth. (I laughed at how ridiculous it looked and how much “protection” it offered).

My question is does anybody know where I can get such a pathetic item from?

330197 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Smelly Melly, 1, #542 of 1197 🔗

Based on your description, the bloke behind the counter in a local chinese takeaway wears one. Quirky, pointless looking little things – still, probably no more pointless than any other! I’ll ask him next time I’m in.

330203 ▶▶ PhilipF, replying to Smelly Melly, 7, #543 of 1197 🔗

I was thinking of going the other way and start wearing an “Elephant Man” style sack.

330305 ▶▶▶ Alan P, replying to PhilipF, #544 of 1197 🔗

Wonder what the reaction would be if you had a KKK hood?

330258 ▶▶ Jo Dominich, replying to Smelly Melly, 1, #546 of 1197 🔗

Make it yourself.

330188 RickH, replying to RickH, 15, #547 of 1197 🔗

There is a notable absence here of analysis relating to this variant of the virus.

The whole story raises massive questions, given the timing and the fear propaganda coming out of the Boris Broadcasting Crap. Suddenly, a variant that’s been around for months has become a raging threat, with astronomically high transmission – defined by that favourite modellers’ variable – the R number.

Is there any good scientific intelligence out there? We could do with more than repetitive rants.

330222 ▶▶ mj, replying to RickH, 6, #548 of 1197 🔗

no scientific intelligence anywhere.. None in the government. None in SAGE . in fact no intelligence of any kind.
they are playing a game – crying wolf. just wait for another even worse variant to come along in due course when they want to take us to the next stage .
so the last thing they want to do is actually provide any information about the current variation .. far better to be mysterious. rather than let anyone see facts

330256 ▶▶▶ Jo Dominich, replying to mj, 4, #549 of 1197 🔗

Added to which of course, the UK is the only country in the world that is apparently experiencing this oh so terrible variant! Strange that

330266 ▶▶ guy153, replying to RickH, 9, #550 of 1197 🔗

I’ve posted about it a couple of times. The evidence that it’s more transmissible is paper-thin and all based on “according to our models it must be because transmission went up”. In the middle of winter during a lockdown everyone was ignoring…

I think some people also underestimate the strength of the “founder effect”. I did myself when we had the new variant from Spain at the start of the Autumn.

That variant seemed to get everywhere and we were told it was because we had been naughty and gone to Spain on holiday. Nobody claimed at that time it was more infectious. Since the virus was already endemic in the UK I didn’t think much of the founder effect theory and therefore thought it must be more infectious or how was it getting everywhere?

But it’s not that stable. When you have a change in R0 some variant of Covid will grow to fill the new space available and get you back to equilibrium. Because the virus is multiplying near-exponentially (at least at the start) a random head-start of about a week or so can make a big difference. Effectively this means that everybody might get the Spanish variant because a few people happened to get off a plane with it. But if they hadn’t, they would have just got some other variant instead. It’s just luck– whatever variant was in the right place at the right time.

The Spanish variant went up and went back down again. The new “English strain” hasn’t been around as long but has yet to do anything more exceptional than what that Spanish one did.

The only variant that I did think was definitely more infectious was D614G (which started early on, around a year ago) and has become dominant everywhere. But even that might just be founder effect according to Balloux’s analysis:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19818-2

What he’s basically doing is looking at the number of times a mutation arose independently. D614G arose several times and most of them went nowhere. That implies no particular fitness advantage. Another similar metric he’s using is to look at how many other neutral mutations the dominant strain is carrying with it. If nearly all D614Gs also have a bunch of other stuff it implies they just happened to all come from the same family tree.

The mutation that’s most likely to make the “English strain” more infectious is N501Y since it’s on the spike. But that mutation has already failed the Balloux test– it’s appeared many times before and done nothing.

This is the kind of thing you have to look at, as well as in vitro tests, and a plausible theory for how the mutation helps, to distinguish evolution from “founder effect”. It’s not enough to say well it just got everywhere, especially this early in its evolution.

B117 (the “English strain”) doesn’t just have N501Y, it has a bunch of other (probably neutral) mutations in ORF8 and other places. There is wild speculation that that in conjunction with N501Y makes it more infectious with no theories ventured as to why. But it’s much more likely an indication just that the B117s all came from the same place. In other words, luck/founder effect.

There has also been wild speculation about whether B117 can escape antibodies or reinfect people. We do expect SARS-CoV-2 to do this one day (the other coronaviruses do as found in a recent paper by Lucy Van Dorp) but not for a few years.

In this twitter thread immunology legend Akiko Iwasaki explains how we know it is very unlikely to be what happened here:

https://twitter.com/VirusesImmunity/status/1344391769300066305

Basically Serimmune (whose report she is explaining) looked at the genes for the epitopes (bits of the spike that antibodies stick to) and the bits that had changed on B117. There was no overlap.

I think people may have also tested the putative new strain against actual antibodies and they work fine.

The theory that it was cultured in an immunosuppressed patient treated with convalescent plasma and evolved to escape antibodies is also wild speculation. That can happen and is a risk, but it doesn’t look like it’s what happened here.

So overall my conclusion is that it might be a bit more infectious but more likely not.

330282 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to guy153, 3, #551 of 1197 🔗

Thank you. Very interesting and informative. Just what’s needed.

330327 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to guy153, 2, #552 of 1197 🔗

Thanks, guy. It seems we are in a situation where any scary rumour can be broadcast as fact with little scientific restraint.

My broad-brush instinct remains : that if there was a more dangerous version in circulation, then the reliable all-cause mortality data would show some signal. It doesn’t – and if it doesn’t have higher lethality, then why the noise?

330482 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to RickH, 1, #553 of 1197 🔗

The claim is that it’s more infectious not more virulent, but more cases would also lead to more deaths.

We will have a few more deaths but there are usually two winter peaks with a seasonal virus. One around October or so and one around now. The second winter peak is usually a bit higher than the first (but it won’t be anything dramatic like the moderately dramatic pandemic we had in March). I think that’s probably what we’re seeing here.

330342 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to guy153, 4, #554 of 1197 🔗

Thanks for such an informative post.

I am sure Ferguson et al. couldn’t give a worthwhile comment on any of this this, and don’t care that they can’t, because no one is holding them to any account.

330494 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to TJN, 3, #555 of 1197 🔗

They’re jumping to conclusions. As the Balloux analysis shows it’s easier than people think to mistake luck for evolution. Even if B117 ends up dominant everywhere that doesn’t prove it’s fitter (although it makes it more likely).

For a bit of perspective out of about 350,000 mutations so far somewhere between 0 and 2 have had an actual competitive advantage.

It will evolve to escape antibodies but it will take a few years. We’ve only quite recently reached herd immunity. During the pandemic phase there is not much pressure on it to escape antibodies because people don’t have them anyway.

330883 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to guy153, #556 of 1197 🔗

The question that will never be asked is the relationship of the mass flu vaccination and the increased transmission, irrespective of whatever variant it is. Add the cold weather, lack of sun and vitamin D and what would you expect to happen?

330194 Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, 24, #557 of 1197 🔗

Just came across this in the Daily Mail:

Professor Lawrence Young, a molecular oncologist at Warwick Medical School, today called on the Government to ‘grasp the nettle’, dump the ever-more complicated tier system and impose a third national lockdown.

‘I’ve been talking to friends and relatives in the past week and people are very confused about the rules for the different tiers, the debacle around schools,’ he told MailOnline, ‘and I think that alongside the mounting impact of infections we’re seeing it does make you wonder whether people are still following all the rules’.

‘It may be better to have a much clearer message that it’s a national lockdown rather than a hotchpotch approach of tiers that then every few days gets tweaked slightly.’

He added that rising infections indicated Britons are no longer listening to the rules on face masks, washing their hands and social distancing, because if they were the virus ‘would not be transmitting’.

‘Yesterday I went to the supermarket and saw people not wearing face masks, I always stare at them but it doesn’t make much difference. People are just not taking it seriously and I think that’s related to the mixed messages from the Government.’

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9102299/Coronavirus-UK-line-Tier-5.html

I was amused with two of his comments – the one about people not following the rules must be the reason for the increased infection rate and particularly the one about staring at people not wearing face masks.

330195 ▶▶ The Mask Exempt Covid Marshall, replying to Ozzie, 19, #558 of 1197 🔗

What an out-of-touch knob!

330199 ▶▶▶ The Mask Exempt Covid Marshall, replying to The Mask Exempt Covid Marshall, 9, #559 of 1197 🔗

These so-called ‘experts’ keep getting their way anyway, so not sure what they’re whining about.

330228 ▶▶▶▶ common conservative, replying to The Mask Exempt Covid Marshall, 9, #560 of 1197 🔗

They want full submission from every single one of us. Nothing less. Funny thing is, they’ll never achieve this.

330389 ▶▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to The Mask Exempt Covid Marshall, #561 of 1197 🔗

I’ll pay attention to a single word he says when he’s successfully stood for elected office.

330204 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Ozzie, 18, #562 of 1197 🔗

I’m pretty sick of these meidco-fettishists and their endless looking down on the rest of us.If he was to stare at me I would probably punch him,here he is,

330206 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Paul, 28, #563 of 1197 🔗

There you go – some people should wear masks after all.

330221 ▶▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to CGL, 2, #564 of 1197 🔗

LOL

330336 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to CGL, 2, #565 of 1197 🔗

Yes, wasn’t there a Not the Nine O’Clock News sketch about being ugly and having to wear a paper bag over you head?

330209 ▶▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Paul, 8, #566 of 1197 🔗

I wonder if he shaved his beard off so the mask wearing would be more effective?

330224 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 15, #567 of 1197 🔗

This man* and the one yesterday are actively condoning aggression against non mask-wearers.

*I use the term loosely!

330249 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Paul, 5, #568 of 1197 🔗

I would.

330472 ▶▶▶ ElizaP, replying to Paul, 1, #569 of 1197 🔗

Personally – I’d smile sweetly and give him the V sign and a toss of the head.

330217 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Ozzie, 18, #570 of 1197 🔗

Says the man on full pay.

330220 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Ozzie, 33, #571 of 1197 🔗

>>>> rising infections indicated Britons are no longer listening to the rules on face masks, washing their hands and social distancing, because if they were the virus ‘would not be transmitting’.<<<<

It could also indicate, of course, that the rules are futile.

330254 ▶▶▶ Jo Dominich, replying to Ned of the Hills, 10, #572 of 1197 🔗

Where does he actually get this information from? If he went out and actually looked about he would see the majority of people wearing masks, sanitising and washing their hands. It is transmitting because the manufactured hysteria is telling you it is but the data says something very different. There is not a shred of evidence he has provided to show the infections are rising. And yes, as the previous poster said, says he on full pay.

330259 ▶▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to Ned of the Hills, 9, #573 of 1197 🔗

Blaming the people is the Mantra of failed policies and failed politician’s
And of course decades of cuts and underfunding have nothing to do with the NHS winter crisis

330887 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Ned of the Hills, #574 of 1197 🔗

Sacrilege!!!

330223 ▶▶ Waldorf, replying to Ozzie, 19, #575 of 1197 🔗

“I always stare at them but it doesn’t make much difference.”
They probably thought he was a sexual pervert.

330392 ▶▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to Waldorf, 1, #576 of 1197 🔗

To be scrupulously fair, he does look like one.

330226 ▶▶ mj, replying to Ozzie, 22, #577 of 1197 🔗

as an oncologist does he not feel guilty at all about the huge numbers of people who have missed cancer checks and treatments and are dying whilst the NHS becomes covid only.

330232 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to mj, 19, #578 of 1197 🔗

No. He doesn’t. Our doctors don’t seem to have much of a conscience between them otherwise thousands woukd be speaking up about the appallingly negative health effects of the lockdown lunacy.

330279 ▶▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to OKUK, 12, #579 of 1197 🔗

I’ve been appalled that there hasn’t been a huge collective cry of rage and anguish from ordinary GPs who’ve been effectively separated from their patients – some of whom they must have known for years, and in whose wellbeing they must have felt some involvement. Some must care, surely?

Where ARE those honourable local doctors?

330293 ▶▶▶▶▶ Janette, replying to Banjones, 3, #580 of 1197 🔗

Exactly my thought too!

330566 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jo Dominich, replying to Banjones, #581 of 1197 🔗

Either gagged or are really enjoying not having to see or deal with those pesky patients!

330233 ▶▶▶ suitejb, replying to mj, 8, #582 of 1197 🔗

He won’t be aware of all that. My friends consultant (oncology) told her that they were seeing a much higher number of covid cases than earlier in the year. How does he know? Hopefully he’s got more important things to do than check up on the covid situation.

330308 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to suitejb, 2, #583 of 1197 🔗

That word : ‘cases’

330238 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Ozzie, 6, #584 of 1197 🔗

Goat Staring
comment image

330267 ▶▶▶ John001, replying to Two-Six, 5, #585 of 1197 🔗

I suspect he might be a candidate for Private Eye’s ‘High Principals’ column, with this background

https://www.abingdonhealth.com/professor-lawrence-s-young-appointed-scientific-advisor/

I’ve been disappointed in the Eye’s coverage of COVID though.MD has basically sat on the fence. The Eye usually takes a position on such issues. Other NHS GPs, like Kendrick, haven’t been slow to say that the policy is beyond stupid.

330304 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to John001, 6, #586 of 1197 🔗

The Eye has never been really radical, despite its good record on various big money stories.

It always repeated the establishment line, for instance, on the fables about Corbyn, and never did any journalism on them.

Essentially, it’s a posh boys’ rag mag that you have to read as critically as any other MSM organ.

330600 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to John001, #587 of 1197 🔗

I would give MD 5 out of 10. My subscription to Private Eye runs out after the next issue, but after many years I’m not going to renew this time. Partly because of their covid coverage but mainly because not much of it is funny now, it’s all a bit predictable.

330272 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to Ozzie, 6, #588 of 1197 🔗

What a smug, arrogant, ignorant oik.

No doubt the words ”I’m all right, Jack” could be his mantra.

”The virus would not be transmitting….” – transmitting what, exactly? What did they teach this narrow-minded t*sser at medical school?

330340 ▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Banjones, 3, #589 of 1197 🔗

He makes the virus sound like Radio Moscow.

330210 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to p02099003, 13, #591 of 1197 🔗

“If you choose not to follow the rules you are putting others at serious risk and you could face a significant fine.”. Clearly the party goers were forced there at gunpoint. People know the score -why should the Government stop people having fun?

330215 ▶▶ Paul, replying to p02099003, 16, #592 of 1197 🔗

So brave,guardians of peace and safety.It’s a relief to know that they have already eradicated all real crime so they can now use their time to crush the human spirit instead.

330218 ▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Paul, 4, #593 of 1197 🔗

But they aren’t crushing the human spirit.

330563 ▶▶▶ Jo Dominich, replying to Paul, 5, #594 of 1197 🔗

Paul, what I think is interesting, the more they suppress things like parties, illegal raves etc the more resentment they build up and the more people are going to be determined to organise them. No amount of arrests and break ups has worked so far. They are, unwittingly, creating a hotbed of resentment which will only get stronger. So much better if they allowed people to assess and manage their own risk.

330202 Fingerache Philip, replying to Fingerache Philip, 7, #595 of 1197 🔗

Piers Corbyn (you know the rest)
How much in fines (unpaid of course) has he picked up now?

330560 ▶▶ Jo Dominich, replying to Fingerache Philip, #596 of 1197 🔗

I liked the insouicant way they just walked through by some taking left, some right and some centre thereby spreading police apart. It wasn’t difficult.

330216 Londo Mollari, replying to Londo Mollari, 2, #597 of 1197 🔗

Some video of the protest in London last evening. Fuller coverage at the Subject Access Youtube channel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaxucwOLVEA&feature=emb_logo

330252 ▶▶ PW, replying to Londo Mollari, 6, #598 of 1197 🔗

No coverage whatsoever on the State Broadcasting Service, that I can see?
The London protests (and 150 arrests!!) on 28th November had reasonable coverage on the following morning but this had completely disappeared by lunchtime!!!

Spooky or what???

Peter.

330230 DanClarke, 46, #599 of 1197 🔗

The media bias makes me so angry. Headline in the DM about a man who has sadly died of Covid, my brother died last NYE 2019 of cancer, no one cares now about all the people who have died of the many other diseases, its horrendous to think all that matters is the massive money making spin that is Covid

330234 Puddleglum59, replying to Puddleglum59, 13, #600 of 1197 🔗

Hi, first time to comment on here. Have followed LS for the past month or so and the articles and comments have been helpful in helping me to make my mind up about what is going on. Think I’m getting there and appreciate all your inputs.

330414 ▶▶ Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, replying to Puddleglum59, 1, #601 of 1197 🔗

Welcome! Lots of different people, with different politics, geographical locations, etc., but we all share the understanding that something is “off” with the narrative. Glad more sceptics are joining our ranks.

330490 ▶▶ Tom in Scotland, replying to Puddleglum59, 1, #602 of 1197 🔗

Welcome and happy new year!

330526 ▶▶▶ Jo Dominich, replying to Tom in Scotland, #603 of 1197 🔗

Tom, did you get a new year of any kind in wee Krankie land?

330558 ▶▶ Jo Dominich, replying to Puddleglum59, 2, #604 of 1197 🔗

You are very welcome. It’s tough right now being in the Resistance but we will get there in the end. Now is the time to start organising Locally Active Groups to start breaking the rules such as mask wearing. The more that do it the less they can do about it.

330239 Wolver, replying to Wolver, 18, #605 of 1197 🔗

Government now waiting 12wks to administer second jabs that were s’post to be given 3 weeks later.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-55503739

The UK will give both parts of the Oxford and Pfizer vaccines 12 weeks apart, having initially planned to leave 21 days between the Pfizer jabs.

Chief medical officers said getting more people vaccinated with the first jab “is much more preferable”.

Pfizer has said it has tested the vaccine’s efficacy only when the two vaccines were given up to 21 days apart.

But the chief medical officers said the “great majority” of initial protection came from the first jab.

Now there going against the little testing the vaccine has had.

330241 ▶▶ jb12, replying to Wolver, 12, #606 of 1197 🔗

If people didn’t rely on the Thinking Box for thoughts, this in itself would end the pandemic tomorrow. But they do, so on it will go.

330247 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Wolver, 25, #607 of 1197 🔗

“Great majority” – highly scientific language. I wish I were an expert scientist like them.

How the hell can they know what proportion of protection comes from the first dose? Were there control groups in the trials that only had one dose?

Anyone with half a brain should now be able to see that the vaccine is a political tool, nothing to do with public health

330253 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Julian, 3, #608 of 1197 🔗

Precisely.

330277 ▶▶▶ Wolver, replying to Julian, 6, #609 of 1197 🔗

For me this is one of the most frustrating aspects. Numbers & percentages are banded around with no context given and language is misused to lead people to a certain conclusion. Once your eyes are open to it, you see that it is everywhere.

330522 ▶▶▶ Jo Dominich, replying to Julian, #610 of 1197 🔗

Julian, I think it was yesterday somebody on here had looked at the Pfeizer one and had obtained information from the FDA. Apart from the incredibly list of potentially deadly side effects, the information he had obtained said that the first jab’s purpose is solely to mitigate the side effects from the 2nd jab which is the main one. So, not sure what Pfeizer is saying is true. They are a regular poster on here. If I can find it I’ll re-post it.

330250 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Wolver, 9, #611 of 1197 🔗

I’m just having that debate with a Glastonbury attending friend who sent me a jabaganda pic of Michael Eavis having his shot today.

If one even believes that this jab is going to make any difference (I won’t call it a vaccine as even the manufacturers don’t claim it confers immunity – at best it’s a therapeutic), then ignoring what these same manufacturers say about how it should be given is just insanity. We delve deeper into the realm of fairies and goblins it seems. Might as well just have a placebo and be done with it.

https://theprint.in/world/pfizer-backs-two-dose-covid-vaccine-schedule-after-uk-spaces-out-shots/577508/

330261 ▶▶▶ Wolver, replying to leggy, 2, #612 of 1197 🔗

Ignoring what these same manufacturers say about how it should be given is just insanity

This is true to form though, PCR tests were always to be backed up with a clinical diagnosis.

330264 ▶▶ George L, replying to Wolver, 4, #613 of 1197 🔗

Obviously Bliar’s highly respected medical knowledge has been taken on board.. “We’ve got to ram something into the plebs before January is out”..

330290 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Wolver, #614 of 1197 🔗

preferable or profitable?

330240 NorthumbrianNomad, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 30, #615 of 1197 🔗

67 deaths in Thailand on New Year’s Eve. No wonder they’re wrestling the country towards lockdown again.

Oh, sorry, no. Those were 67 deaths in New Year traffic accidents. Ban cars! Shut the roads!

330275 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 4, #616 of 1197 🔗

Could not agree more NN.
If the government’s lockdown stance was applied to cars, all vehicles would have been outlawed months ago.

330246 tonyspurs, replying to tonyspurs, 22, #617 of 1197 🔗

NHS winter crisis 2012 -2020 all in one picture

330251 ▶▶ iane, replying to tonyspurs, 1, #618 of 1197 🔗

Plus ca change!

330265 ▶▶ mj, replying to tonyspurs, 2, #619 of 1197 🔗

the boy he cry wolf

330520 ▶▶ Jo Dominich, replying to tonyspurs, 1, #620 of 1197 🔗

Strange thing for the Guardian to print given they are establishment shills.

330257 Banjones, replying to Banjones, 8, #621 of 1197 🔗

I’ve just watched this again. There’s a lot of information here, and a lot of studies are looked at. We all know that Vitamin D is important, but these studies show just HOW important.
(The good thing is, it’s cheap, and it’s not harmful – but very very rarely… and we don’t know if that can be said of this vaccine yet .)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha2mLz-Xdpg&t=1763s

This kind of information isn’t going to given out by our own government while they’ve got money to make and control to keep. Yet it could save lives.

(Does anyone remember that vitamin D was going to be sent out to some ”vulnerable” people, a couple of months ago?)

330284 ▶▶ John001, replying to Banjones, 7, #622 of 1197 🔗

They planned to give the ‘vulnerable’ 400 IU per day.
Fauci (aged about 80, more than the normal male life expectancy) takes a reported 6,000 IU/day.
The NHS warns that more than 4,000 ‘can be dangerous’.
This is how out of date it is.

330306 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to John001, 5, #623 of 1197 🔗

It’s not just that it’s out of date, which it is, of course. But they and their minions know all about Vitamin D and what a effective treatment it is. But they want nothing to get in the way of the take-up of their vaccine. If people got to believe in the powers of a cheap vitamin then bang goes all their propaganda efforts. And their profits.

So they’ll just spread the lie that ”4,000 IU can be dangerous” and pay lip service to world studies that show that around 5,000 IU can have amazing effects with no harm, by giving out FREE 400 IU. How generous. How manipulative.

330360 ▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to John001, 2, #624 of 1197 🔗

Above 4,000 can be dangerous for certain people on certain other medications. However, for most people 4,000 would be very safe and beneficial in UK winter.

330262 George L, replying to George L, 8, #625 of 1197 🔗

When you’ve got the Rothschilds palling up with the Pope and the Paris police chief is quoting Trotsky in his new year message plus throwing outspoken professors in mental institutions.. you just know something’s going on..

https://www.europereloaded.com/the-dangerous-alliance-of-rothschilds-and-the-vatican-of-francis-video/

https://www.rt.com/news/511228-paris-police-trotsky-card/

https://www.europereloaded.com/accomplished-pharmacology-prof-thrown-in-psych-hospital-after-questioning-official-covid-narrative/

330274 ▶▶ George L, replying to George L, 8, #626 of 1197 🔗

He looks such an amiable, caring sort of character doesn’t he..

The Paris Police Chief..

330278 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to George L, #627 of 1197 🔗

Umm, no

330291 ▶▶▶ AshesThanDust, replying to George L, 3, #628 of 1197 🔗

Mon dieu!!

330667 ▶▶▶ Robin Birch, replying to George L, 1, #629 of 1197 🔗

Good grief, thought the Nazis had left Paris in 1944

330263 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 37, #630 of 1197 🔗

Local promenade near me is RAMMED. Stay at home orders being widely ignored.

330268 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to Tom Blackburn, 18, #631 of 1197 🔗

FANTASTIC.

330281 ▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to Tom Blackburn, 12, #632 of 1197 🔗

Excellent. “Blackpool rocks!”

330388 ▶▶ Janette, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #633 of 1197 🔗

That’s what we need to be doing breaking their rules.

330517 ▶▶▶ Jo Dominich, replying to Janette, 1, #634 of 1197 🔗

en masse. I think local groups could organise this. I’ll look into it here.

330462 ▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #635 of 1197 🔗

The local park is so busy, even though its freezing cold, the cafe has reopened! Only for takeaway mind, but better than nothing. And the bloke running it isn’t a covid coward either!

330589 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #636 of 1197 🔗

Out walking this afternoon on a former railway converted to a path. Lots of people including a group of about six. I thought nothing of it till back at home on the radio there was a propaganda advert about what you shouldn’t do in tier 4, such as meeting with people outside your home. Suddenly I realised, I bet these people weren’t all from the same household and were ignoring the rules, well done them! Clearly the rules haven’t yet been sufficiently hammered into me. Send me to the re-education camp.

330273 leggy, replying to leggy, 40, #637 of 1197 🔗

Having a few text messages back and forth with my friendly, very sceptical boiler engineer discussing how uncorrupted experts like Mike Yeadon are being ignored. This one made me smile, he has a way with words!

The good professors are obviously very knowledgeable, experienced, advanced like the thousands of others who signed the Great Barrington Declaration, all equally ignored or discredited.

Staggering to believe that the dummies in power being advised by the weird wizards in the sage/nervetag and other government made loon, Marxist, bonkers bureaus are at the wheel when the really qualified are locked in the loo at the back of Boris’s out of control bendy bus on a cataclysmic careering crash course to catastrophe.

Probably all chanting in unison

“Our works will be done

It’s for the greater good,,

330276 ▶▶ CGL, replying to leggy, 8, #638 of 1197 🔗

He’s wasted on boilers isn’t he!
(Hope your daughter and friend escaped without arrest from the rave btw)

330280 ▶▶▶ John001, replying to CGL, 4, #639 of 1197 🔗

If he’s anywhere near Powys, Hfds or Shrops can I have his contact details pls? I need a gas (LPG) boiler fitted this year.

330286 ▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to John001, 1, #640 of 1197 🔗

Sadly not – really hard to find a good one isn’t it, good luck!

330359 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to John001, #641 of 1197 🔗

Try Nextdoor.org for recommendations of local tradespeople.

330285 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to CGL, 9, #642 of 1197 🔗

Haha, it does seem that an affinity with oil boilers is just one of many talents!

They did get back fine and fine free thanks, but the party was busted by the bastards. Still, they saw the New Year in and enjoyed it whilst it lasted.

330457 ▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to leggy, 5, #643 of 1197 🔗

Our boiler engineers are great. One is a mega sceptic – we had a wonderful chat! The other is also sceptic but has to tread carefully because of his missus. Such a relief to have normal people doing work in the house. Gas engineers were good too, but the BT engineer, fully PPE’d, totally freaked out when he found he out had to come INTO the house to fix the line fault!

330283 Julian, replying to Julian, 32, #644 of 1197 🔗

If anyone has any good ideas about how to get a powerful anti-lockdown alliance off the ground, please share

There are various minor political parties, some sceptic MPs, various campaign groups and websites, some journalists, judges, doctors, celebrities, rich businesspeople

If efforts were co-ordinated to get our message across, with multi million pound funding, professional management and consultancy, and legal representation, we may stand some chance of making an impact

Who could make this happen?

330298 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Julian, 14, #645 of 1197 🔗

I think you’re right this is the directiin we need to be heading. I suggested last night we need a crowd funded newspaper and other media campaign on the theme of “You’ve Been Lied To” with focus on the ineffectiveness of lockdowns and masks. I think this could be a good launch platform for other measures. Maybe Lord Sumption could head up the appeal and someone with a reputable finance background could administer the fund.

It’s an important first step: getting the public to understand they’ve been lied to.

A separate fund could be established for legal challenges and for paying the fines of and providing financial compensation to those arrested while engaged in legitimate protest or research.

The political side of things is more difficult. I’d like to see something like a Committee for a Political Anti Lockdown Alliance. The Committee would bring together figures from CRG, Reform, Renew, SDP and UKIP…I hope eventually CRG would break away from the Globalist wing of the Conservative, maybe branding itself as the New Conservative Party. In any event, I would hope that anti-lockdown MPS and parties can reach some agreement on an electoral pact, to maximise the antk-lockdown vote.

330303 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to OKUK, 6, #646 of 1197 🔗

Sumption would certainly have a lot of pull, though I was thinking more of someone from business or politics. But possibly Sumption is less potentially divisive – more neutral.

I know of no way of getting in touch with him though. Perhaps via his publisher?

330318 ▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to Julian, 4, #647 of 1197 🔗

Kathy Gyngell was posing much the same question late November.
https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/a-national-alliance-against-lockdown-now-or-we-are-lost/
It might be worth dropping her a note at TCW to see if there has been any response.

Covid19 Assembly might have suggestions – definite overlap with your thinking.
https://www.covid19assembly.org/

330774 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to TheOriginalBlackPudding, #648 of 1197 🔗

Thanks

I hadn’t been aware of the Covid19 Assembly (strange, as TY is involved) and it seems like just the ticket, but they don’t seem to have done much. I don’t mean to sound churlish – they probably lack resources

Out of the Kathy Gyngell article, this was born: https://nationalalliance.org.uk/

But they don’t seem to have done much, either

“The National Alliance wholeheartedly opposes the current government restrictions and views them as an affront to our basic rights and civil liberties. Never before in the UK has a protest against Government been criminally banned. We cannot, we will not stand for this.

We will therefore provide an organisational structure and platform for those opposing lockdown and the ludicrous 3-tier system.

Please choose from the following options below to support us, be it by donation or other means.”

330287 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 46, #649 of 1197 🔗

Against the advice of the manufacturers the goverment is looking to extend the gap between first and second shots of the Pfizer vaccine beyond the maximum recommended period – by several weeks. Now why would they do that? The argument that it somehow gets more people vaccinated is plainly not right, since only the two shots together count as vaccination. I suspect that the following is the real reason:

They know that if they start giving the second shots now there are going to be some very adverse reactions. The US trials revealed the vaccine is not a “walk in the park”. Many volunteers reported being shocked and surprised at just how bad they felt after the second shot. I’m wondering whether they’ve found already with just the first shot that the very elderly and frail are being weakened. So are they fearful that lots of the very old and frail recipients are going to die and people are going to start putting two and two together, which could then hugely suppress the take-up?

This seems a much more likely reason for ignoring the vaccine manufacturer’s clear instructions.

330317 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to OKUK, 4, #650 of 1197 🔗

You could be right but surely they would have known that up front? Perhaps it’s something to do with the Oxford vaccine taking its’ place? Whatever the reason, it seems completely reckless.

330324 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to godowneasy, 4, #651 of 1197 🔗

I think they are planning for the mutant strain to mutate further and be vaccine immune. Thereby keeping us (well not us of course, everyone else..!) going that bit longer, until a new vaccine is found. “come on everyone, we’re doing so well, keep going, you can do it”….

330332 ▶▶▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Country Mumkin, 8, #652 of 1197 🔗

Yes maybe – They have already signalled a “mix and match” approach. By this time next year, anyone who has been “jabbed” could be so full of a cocktail of chemicals that they would classed as a walking biohazard and destined to be in permanent quarantine.

330328 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to OKUK, 9, #653 of 1197 🔗

Given the competence of the NHS and its associated quangos, it’s more likely that the government have realised that revaccinating exactly 4 weeks later is impossible for them. This is because they couldn’t organise a booze up in a brewery.
Better to extend the deadline and lie to say it doesn’t matter.
These people will do anything to save their own skin.

330356 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to OKUK, 10, #654 of 1197 🔗

There’s value in all these replies, but it’s pretty clear this is just another ‘drag it out’ job. Once everybody is vaccinated, many will start to ask about restrictions being lifted, and we can’t have that, can we?

330401 ▶▶ Nobody2021, replying to OKUK, 6, #655 of 1197 🔗

It’s just more of the same tactics of getting people to accept something seemingly benign and then once that’s done they ramp it up and force them to accept whatever else they really want done.

There is no way to trust somebody who thinks it’s ok to manipulate people in this way.

330295 Basics, replying to Basics, 19, #656 of 1197 🔗

Not on topic.
Despotic disregard for democracy. Both Holyrood Parliament and the City of Edinburgh Council are flying the EU flag today. The council flying it higher than the union flag.

These establishments woukd rather look like incompetents than behave in an honourable fashion. Neither EU flag flying is an oversight.

These tedious little matters matter to them otherwise they would act professionally. Both establishments have both carried out the lockdown whims of their masters with gusto.

330339 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Basics, 10, #657 of 1197 🔗

I was an ardent Remainer, now I’m a Rejoiner. However, the behaviour described here is pathetic, unprofessional, childish and generally abhorrent.

330429 ▶▶ George L, replying to Basics, 4, #658 of 1197 🔗

The sooner they cut off the money supply to that Stugeron woman the better off we’ll all be. Pull the plug and then pull up the drawbridge.. good riddance!

330300 common conservative, replying to common conservative, 9, #659 of 1197 🔗

Thought you’d seen it all? A welding instructor is sacked for refusing to wear a cloth mask *underneath his welding helmet*:

https://youtu.be/HczLx0bq0Hw

330673 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to common conservative, #660 of 1197 🔗

I heard from a civil lawyer friend this week that employment tribunals have been suspended because of covid. Northern Ireland. They’ve the avenues for justice wrapped up if true.

330301 tonyspurs, 8, #661 of 1197 🔗

Anti mask flash mobs now there’s an idea

https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2020/12/31/302543-n302543

330307 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 7, #662 of 1197 🔗

this was posted yesterday, well worth a watch if you missed it – interview with Fuellmich

https://gloria.tv/post/cyzhSpgKH1z73xtPKvWmj1AVK

330315 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to Major Panic, 1, #663 of 1197 🔗

Thank you. It’s excellent.

330430 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Major Panic, 1, #664 of 1197 🔗

Essential watching.

330310 mikewaite, replying to mikewaite, 4, #665 of 1197 🔗

I have been doing some search into the methods for calculating Ro numbers and there is a vast amount of literature on the subject as well as on the kinetics of infection transmission. Much of it is actually open access, but the mathematics involved is daunting.
However one of the papers encountered in the search discusses the apparent oscillatory nature of flu epidemics which might interest those who suspect that the successive waves , which engender catastrophic lockdowns, are a natural phenomenon and less likely to be solely caused by irresponsible social gatherings as claimed by the politicians
https://www.pnas.org/content/101/48/16915
Dynamical resonance can account for seasonality of influenza epidemics
.By dynamical resonance the authors mean that there is a natural tendency to oscillation bejhaviour with flu viruses, and if the cycle of that oscillation coincides with a seasonal cycle then the flu epidemic is greatly enhanced even when the seasonal change is almost too small to be obvious. The appearance of the second wave in temperate northern hemisphere nations just as autumn approached could be confirmation of that hypothesis – or I may be reading too much into this from just one paper. See what you think.

330335 ▶▶ RickH, replying to mikewaite, 3, #666 of 1197 🔗

Modellers’ games. Hmm!

Sorry – complicated maths is no virtue in its own right. It’s the relationship with the observed that counts.

…. and there are no general successive ‘waves’ in viral epidemics.

330353 ▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to RickH, 2, #667 of 1197 🔗

Modelling games are incredibly useful as tools to help inform, accompany or challenge our mental models. I think they’re valuable despite recent abuse personally.

330421 ▶▶▶▶ George L, replying to Tee Ell, 3, #668 of 1197 🔗

They maybe if intelligent well sourced information is fed into the model, and said model is not politically slanted. If not you end up with garbage in and garbage out..

330311 Jo Starlin, replying to Jo Starlin, 4, #669 of 1197 🔗

Birth rate crash incoming now we’ve passed the nine month milestone?

330418 ▶▶ Annie, replying to Jo Starlin, 4, #670 of 1197 🔗

Depends whether copulating through face knickers reduces the likelihood of conception.

330467 ▶▶▶ ElizaP, replying to Annie, 1, #671 of 1197 🔗

Nope – see above reply. You’d have to be pretty stupid to conceive knowing what other women have been put through with not being allowed partners with them during scans and not even allowed partners with them during birth. There have even been women forced into masks whilst giving birth. Who on earth would volunteer for that sort of ill treatment?

330585 ▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to Annie, 1, #672 of 1197 🔗

Ewwww

330464 ▶▶ ElizaP, replying to Jo Starlin, 2, #673 of 1197 🔗

This is what I’ve been expecting. Who on earth would have been daft enough to get pregnant after Lockdown started and very much so when 3 weeks had passed – and yet Lockdown was still going on. I’d certainly figured out that all children conceived prior to Lockdown must have been born by now.

330471 ▶▶▶ Jo Starlin, replying to ElizaP, 2, #674 of 1197 🔗

And the great and good will act surprised when the maternity wards are deserted.

330312 CGL, replying to CGL, 2, #675 of 1197 🔗

https://www.spectator.co.uk/writer/dr-mark-toshner

Spectator article called ‘Let’s bust some vaccine myths’
He does seem to miss the question I would like answered – ie why would you want a vaccine for something that isn’t very dangerous? (obviously if you have vulnerabilities that question doesn’t apply, but for someone like me who is rarely ill, it seems like more of a risk than not having it)

There will be a paywall, but here is an excerpt which I think may be relevant to most folk here:-
“I will make my own decision based on what is best for me and not wider societal pressure or wishes. There is a specific libertarian view that is not contiguous with the right but often overlaps with some sections. We don’t really need to address the rights or wrongs of this because in every single instance, for anybody no matter your risk group, being vaccinated is the best thing for you, on an individual level. Even at the lowest risk categories, vaccines are safer than getting Covid-19. This is blindingly obvious but needs constantly restated. All those people on twitter talking about being low risk and quoting figures like 99.9 per cent survival, nobody has died from a Covid-19 vaccine. Millions have now had one. Why take a 1 in 1,000 chance of death? Why also take the chance of being 1 in 5 of the people post-Covid who are seriously worse months down the line? Take a personal view on this if you want to, but stick to the evidence, the risk/benefit analyses you must make is very simple.”

330322 ▶▶ Schrodinger, replying to CGL, 14, #676 of 1197 🔗

He says “Currently we sit at 600,000 having received their first dose of the vaccine in the UK alone. How many problems have been reported? I put my money where my mouth was early on and there still only appears to be two immediate reactions reported in the media in people who had known allergies. Just take a moment to consider how astonishing this is. Vaccines are safe – you should not need to be forced to get one.”

Which is a an outright lie when the American CDC reports 3150 Health Impact Events (Unable to perform normal daily activities, unable to work or required care from a doctor or health professional) from the first 112,807 doses. Does the vaccine work differently in the USA to the UK?

Nor has the vaccine been tested for many things (including effects on fertility) or indeed if it even stops people catching or transmitting the virus.

Even a very recent article in the NEJM admits that the incidence of anaphylaxis associated with the Pfizer SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccine appears to be approximately 10 times as high as the incidence reported with all previous vaccines, at approximately 1 in 100,000, as compared 1 in 1,000,000.

And concludes In the world of Covid-19 and vaccines, many questions remain. What are the correlates of protective immunity after natural infection or vaccination? How long will immunity last? Will widespread immunity limit the spread of the virus in the population? Which component of the vaccine is responsible for allergic reactions? Are some vaccines less likely than others to cause IgE- and non-IgE–mediated reactions?”

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMra2035343

File under propaganda?

330419 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Schrodinger, 2, #677 of 1197 🔗

If there had been discussion about theraputics from the beginning – how we might treat symptoms effectively, etc, and the benefits of vitamin D and zinc – then perhaps more of us might be prepared to believe that a vaccine were for our own good and that our government had our well being at heart.
As it is, it’s been very clear that control was much more important than public health.

330323 ▶▶ TJN, replying to CGL, 11, #678 of 1197 🔗

Yes, read that too. Pretty mixed up unconvincing article, laced with an unpleasant tone of self-righteousness.

330331 ▶▶▶ rose, replying to TJN, 3, #679 of 1197 🔗

And haven’t at least 3 people died from the vaccine?.

330346 ▶▶▶▶ Wolver, replying to rose, 12, #680 of 1197 🔗

‘from the vaccine?’
You mean ‘ with ‘ the vaccine.

330325 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to CGL, 16, #681 of 1197 🔗

“Even at the lowest risk categories, vaccines are safer than getting Covid-19. This is blindingly obvious but needs constantly restated.”

Well that’s an amazingly confident statement given that the vaccine trials are still ongoing isn’t it?

330345 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to godowneasy, 8, #682 of 1197 🔗

You get into a world of absurdity with this sort of assertion aimed at dummies.

If the regulation of vaccines has required massively longer testing up to now, why should we believe the same authorities who now say that was all unnecessary now?

330347 ▶▶ DRW, replying to CGL, 7, #683 of 1197 🔗

If you’re that confident, why have manufacturers have been indemnified?

330357 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to DRW, 2, #684 of 1197 🔗

Does seem a dubious vote of confidence.

330380 ▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to CGL, 3, #685 of 1197 🔗

Somebody influential seems to have had a meaningful conversation with Brillo Pad of late; and the Spectator is going to the bad at a rate of knots, I’m afraid. If anybody’s thinking of taking out a subscription, don’t waste your money.

330553 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Dermot McClatchey, 2, #686 of 1197 🔗

Yes – I thought that when I looked at the comments on this article too – they used to be a mostly sceptic bunch but the comments on this one are mostly pretty poor. Think we will need to can it now.

330395 ▶▶ Nobody2021, replying to CGL, 4, #687 of 1197 🔗

Sounds like life to me. Why take a chance leaving home when you could stay living with your parents forever?

330398 ▶▶▶ Annie, replying to Nobody2021, 4, #688 of 1197 🔗

Why leave the womb when it’s so cosy inside?

330461 ▶▶▶▶ ElizaP, replying to Annie, 1, #689 of 1197 🔗

Take that right back to “Why get born in the first place?”. I often ask myself why I was daft enough to choose to get born (again) and the only answer I can give myself is “We all make mistakes – and that one was a lulu of one”.

330436 ▶▶ Dorian_Hawkmoon, replying to CGL, 8, #690 of 1197 🔗

Total pap. Straw man arguments. A Johnsoneque jolly buffer, pipe and tweeds, RP medic style from the 1950s (Harry Enfield style). “Now many people think pesticides may be harmful. Stuff and nonsense. I put Roundup on my kippers every morning and never felt better.”
I assume the Spectator get handed this stuff by 77th and well paid.

330316 bebophaircut, #691 of 1197 🔗

Tavistock Institute for Human Relations. British Psychological Association. Feed Think Tanks.

330329 ArjayD, replying to ArjayD, 29, #692 of 1197 🔗

For The Fallen, by Freddy Attenborough.

I’m sat here weeping.
What an incredibly moving piece of writing. He speaks for all of us.
We must remember we are bent not broken. They will NOT break us.
For those hanging on by a thread, we must put our collective hearts together and remember that the power of the human spirit will ALWAYS out. May God help us all in 2021. We are not alone. We have each other. More than 1.8m users of this website . . . .

330396 ▶▶ Annie, replying to ArjayD, 7, #693 of 1197 🔗

Well said, Arjay.
If God be for us, who can be against us?
Stand tall. Don’t bend or bow. They can’t break us.
We are the human spirit.

330330 mj, replying to mj, 13, #694 of 1197 🔗

here’s a job for you.

“Doctors of the World UK are looking for an organised and motivated individual to lead our covid-19 advocacy work. As the pandemic continues to disproportionately impact migrant, BAME and other marginalised communities in the UK, this role is an opportunity to coordinate a fast-paced project fighting for equal access to covid-19 vaccinations, information, testing and treatment. We are looking to appoint a suitable candidate ASAP so applications will be reviewed as received.
Work remotely: Temporarily due to COVID-19″

covid and wokeness combined. Marvellous !

330334 ▶▶ Jo Starlin, replying to mj, 4, #695 of 1197 🔗

I know someone who works for them. A refugees welcome, climate change, UBI, FBPE, Corbynista, public health fanatic and mask wearing zealot.

330351 ▶▶▶ mj, replying to Jo Starlin, 2, #696 of 1197 🔗

doesnt surprise me ….

330413 ▶▶ Annie, replying to mj, 2, #697 of 1197 🔗

Fine, the illegals can have equal access to face knickers, lockdowns, police brutality and snake oil, no prob.

330446 ▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to mj, 2, #698 of 1197 🔗

Actually someone like one of us needs to get in there, and fact find. Also, “our” candidate must have the ability to disrupt! Just saying…..

330338 Fingerache Philip, replying to Fingerache Philip, 11, #699 of 1197 🔗

Nice to see our friendly police doing their duty.
About 6 coppers wrestling a young woman to the ground last night in London because she “broke” Covid regulations.

330352 ▶▶ Maccynic, replying to Fingerache Philip, 3, #700 of 1197 🔗
330358 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to Maccynic, 1, #701 of 1197 🔗

Nuff said.

330568 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Fingerache Philip, #702 of 1197 🔗

I watched Subject Access’ video of the London gathering.
Sam missed the reason for the woman’s arrest but saw her on the ground. The police didn’t look to be rough with her.

The police were mostly standing around in small groups, letting the crowd do its thing, so I did wonder if she’d provoked them somehow. One policeman even gave Sam an enthusiastic thumbs up and wished him HNY.

Even when the SPG arrived in formation, they herded the crowd but I didn’t spot anything thuggish.

Here’s the footage. Judge for yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqYVXhLurYs

330348 Alice, replying to Alice, 16, #703 of 1197 🔗

To Jo Dominich – thank you for writing to the GMC about Dr Montgomery. I thought he might have breached professional conduct standards, but I didn’t know to whom I could complain.

330364 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to Alice, 4, #704 of 1197 🔗

Yes, indeed. Thanks, Jo. (And thanks, Alice.)

330372 ▶▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to Banjones, 7, #705 of 1197 🔗

Please do complain to the GMC about this repulsive liar. It won’t result in his being struck off, but the more complaints, the more he will be personally-inconvenienced.

330508 ▶▶ Jo Dominich, replying to Alice, 1, #706 of 1197 🔗

I’ll send the complaint to Toby. Just got a few fine tuning bits to do. It will be too long for the blog.

330349 jonathan Palmer, replying to jonathan Palmer, 2, #707 of 1197 🔗

Are we going to start again with the death count now that we have entered a new year.They were n’t counting seasonally so I just thought we would start again.

330386 ▶▶ Annie, replying to jonathan Palmer, 3, #708 of 1197 🔗

Corpses, corpses, run with corpses,
All the way from Bethlehem!

330545 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Annie, #709 of 1197 🔗

First guffaw of the year. Thanks!

330354 tonyspurs, replying to tonyspurs, 7, #710 of 1197 🔗

The Catholic clergy are starting to push back , worth watching even if you’re not religious
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lPI3AKJoNfQ

330378 ▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to tonyspurs, 13, #711 of 1197 🔗

Took them long enough.

330361 Smelly Melly, replying to Smelly Melly, 23, #712 of 1197 🔗

Had some friends around last night, one of them informed us that last week he drove 1200 miles visiting family and friends, dropping daughter back up north east etc. He went through many different tiers and never say the pigs.

It seems the filth are applying the same tactic they apply to speed cameras. Only the odd one is switched on but you don’t know which one is on. Same with stopping travel between tiers, you don’t know where they are. Just have a story ready in the unlikely event of being stopped.

Remember politicians say we don’t live in a police state, it just feels like it.

330369 ▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to Smelly Melly, #713 of 1197 🔗

Hope it’s been noticed that we can no longer post on here on a semi-casual basis- you have to register, including a verifiable email address. This means that they know all about each and every us, on an individual basis, now, and this has to be borne in mind when posting.

330540 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Dermot McClatchey, #714 of 1197 🔗

It’s because there was a troll party here last week and the trolling was getting out of hand.
Most sites need you to be signed in before commenting.
Toby’s FSU. Don’t really see a problem.

330385 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Smelly Melly, 4, #715 of 1197 🔗

Can’t be arsed checking now, but I’m pretty sure the Tier law does not say anything about travel. It’s about ‘gathering’. The ‘advice’ is stay local, but that’s not law. So why does plod need to get involved?

330542 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sam Vimes, #716 of 1197 🔗

It doesn’t and might not be.
Filthy MSM perpetrating rumour?

330554 ▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Sam Vimes, #717 of 1197 🔗

That’s right – the law:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1611/pdfs/uksi_20201611_en.pdf
doesn’t restrict travel. The numerous exceptions to the stay at home order are in Sch 3A on page 4.

330362 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 6, #718 of 1197 🔗

Harry Enfield and Chums on Netflix is still double funny.

330376 ▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to Tom Blackburn, #719 of 1197 🔗

Are youse sayin’ our Ba’s thick?

330604 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Dermot McClatchey, #720 of 1197 🔗

Ay, Ay, Ay

This country reminds me of the old gits – abusing kids for kicks and burning cash on a fire so no-one else gets it

330363 Banjones, replying to Banjones, 2, #721 of 1197 🔗

Found this, and it looks as if it’s worth a try. And it won’t do any harm if it doesn’t work – though you won’t know if it does!

https://www.bmj.com/content/368/bmj.m1252/rr-27

330402 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Banjones, #722 of 1197 🔗

There is another report of mouthwash being of some help;
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20201224/A-common-compound-in-mouthwashes-found-to-inhibit-SARS-CoV-2-in-vitro.aspx
As you say worth a try, we found our regular mouthwash does contain this ingredient.

330411 ▶▶▶ Annie, replying to Steve Martindale, 12, #723 of 1197 🔗

If we washed Ferguson’s mouth out with soap, and then sewed his lips together, the hysteria rate would drop like a stone.

330437 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Annie, 1, #724 of 1197 🔗

🤐 🤐

330534 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Banjones, #725 of 1197 🔗

Colloidal silver would work too – and it’s gentler than peroxide.

330365 NickR, replying to NickR, 7, #726 of 1197 🔗

What’s the money we find out that ‘cases’ in London peaked on the 21st Dec, before the more restrictive measures were introduced?

330377 ▶▶ Andrew K, replying to NickR, 8, #727 of 1197 🔗

Zero chance, cases peaked in London in early March. I hazard a guess right now there’s bugger all covid anymore.

330391 ▶▶▶ George L, replying to Andrew K, 10, #728 of 1197 🔗

I’d say you are exactly right, and this continuous going over and over old ground is starting to annoy me. We are dealing with ruthless liars who are wreaking havoc with peoples lives, and looking at graphs is not going to move that on one inch.

330420 ▶▶▶▶ Dorian_Hawkmoon, replying to George L, 6, #729 of 1197 🔗

Stop testing healthy people. Stop using a PCR test except to confirm symptomatic case. Poooof. Problem goes away.

330415 ▶▶ Will, replying to NickR, 7, #730 of 1197 🔗

That is why there was such a rush so Lockdown could be enacted in time to take the credit for nature and the endemic equilibrium doing the job.

330366 Silke David, replying to Silke David, 9, #731 of 1197 🔗

Just spoke to my 80y old father in Germany, he is going to get the vaccine. He had flu and the pneumonia one, so he said he might as well have this one. Only he will be right at the end of the queue.

What annoyed me is, I told him it only reduces symptoms. He did not know that. Watches only MSM. I only hope IF he does have his appointment, they will inform him of contradictions and effectiveness.

I am not going to argue with him, especially not over the phone. They are quite taken in and I would have to start from scratch with them, or risk falling out. And my father is of the opinion he would rather stand back and let a younger person have living saving treatment. Which I support. But I am still quite eager to have that talk with him.

330371 ▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to Silke David, 7, #732 of 1197 🔗

Who knows if all those shots are compatible?

330435 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to bebophaircut, 1, #733 of 1197 🔗

Exactly! Its quite worrying how trusting some people are.

330367 Fingerache Philip, replying to Fingerache Philip, 12, #734 of 1197 🔗

First of all there was going to be 3 weeks between 1st and 2nd jabs but now it’s 12 weeks.
I know that the government make it up as they go along but this is taking the p×ss.

330374 ▶▶ Janette, replying to Fingerache Philip, 12, #735 of 1197 🔗

Why would anyone want or need a vaccine in any event when you are likely to have over a 99% chance of recovery if you do get Covid????

330384 ▶▶▶ Nobody2021, replying to Janette, 4, #736 of 1197 🔗

330399 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to Janette, 2, #737 of 1197 🔗

You got it.

330403 ▶▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to Janette, 1, #738 of 1197 🔗

I guess you could say the same about the flu jab. I think this will eventually go the same way.

330480 ▶▶▶ common conservative, replying to Janette, 1, #739 of 1197 🔗

Indeed, Janette. That is surely the million-dollar question.

330531 ▶▶▶▶ Richy_m_99, replying to common conservative, 1, #740 of 1197 🔗

Billion, surely

330550 ▶▶▶▶▶ common conservative, replying to Richy_m_99, #741 of 1197 🔗

Indeed.

330375 ▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to Fingerache Philip, 7, #742 of 1197 🔗

Prolong the Lockdown most likely.

330383 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to bebophaircut, 3, #743 of 1197 🔗

Absolutely.

330404 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to bebophaircut, 4, #744 of 1197 🔗

I’m 72 and I’m seriously thinking that I won’t live long enough to see the end of this madness.

330505 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Fingerache Philip, 11, #745 of 1197 🔗

You’re not dying on my watch, soldier. Now, stand up and fight back. With the rest of us.

330639 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #746 of 1197 🔗

YES SIR!!!!

330466 ▶▶ suitejb, replying to Fingerache Philip, 3, #747 of 1197 🔗

It’s a very cavalier approach to something supposedly so serious. Almost as if they’d worked out a manageable time frame first and gone with that!

330642 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to suitejb, 1, #748 of 1197 🔗

I will see these bastards in their graves and p×ss on em even if they are buried at sea.

330368 bebophaircut, 12, #749 of 1197 🔗

Piers Corbyn says: Stand up to nonsense.

330370 Schrodinger, replying to Schrodinger, 16, #750 of 1197 🔗

This may have been posted before

WHY is the NHS under strain REALLY?

”Across England, more than 76,200 NHS staff were absent from work on Friday – equivalent to more than 6 per cent of the total workforce. This included 25,293 nursing staff and 3,575 doctors.’…. More than a third of Friday’s total, 27,136, were off work because they were either infected with coronavirus or forced to self-isolate.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-patient-safety-nurses-nhs-staff-sick-absence-b1454999.html

330382 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Schrodinger, 15, #751 of 1197 🔗

How would they know they were infected? The BMJ says:

“No test of infection or infectiousness is currently available for routine use. As things stand, a person who tests positive with any kind of test may or may not have an active infection with live virus, and may or may not be infectious.”

330393 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Sam Vimes, 7, #752 of 1197 🔗

Can’t be repeated enough that.

330397 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #753 of 1197 🔗

Which is unfalsifiable then. Great. Salem Witch trials

330572 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to mhcp, #754 of 1197 🔗

Yep, this is 17th-century witch-hunting all over again.

330379 NorthumbrianNomad, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 9, #755 of 1197 🔗

I’ve always thought Jenny Harries was one of the more sensible advisors. Sidelined no doubt for being a woman. Here she is before Johnson went mad, talking sense about masks…

https://youtu.be/4sWjT70-es4

330390 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 9, #756 of 1197 🔗

As a measure of how she is seen by lockdown lovers, they hate her. Seen a twitter thread which tore into her as someone who delayed actions such as full masking, total lockdowns etc. They believe that there was a criminal herd immunity strategy and she is one of those responsible.

Obviously there is so much wrong with this view but it doesn’t matter to these people. The virus can be controlled by total lockdowns and that’s that.

330394 ▶▶ leggy, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 4, #757 of 1197 🔗

Sidelined for telling the truth more like. She’s even still on Boris’ Facebook page telling him the truth regarding masks. https://www.facebook.com/borisjohnson/videos/227850301597915/

330410 ▶▶ dpj, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 3, #758 of 1197 🔗

She was involved again in one of the recent press conferences and seemed to be talking a lot of sense about school situation so that’s probably her sidelined again.

330433 ▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 2, #759 of 1197 🔗

Although she toed the line, she certainly spoke common sense, especially in the beginning.

330381 THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 7, #760 of 1197 🔗

WE’RE BACK! This week we read a letter from a LS reader!

https://therealnormalpodcast.buzzsprout.com/

SEASON 2 IS HERE!

330407 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 5, #761 of 1197 🔗

We’ve got news for the collaborators: We ain’t going away.

330405 Annie, replying to Annie, 14, #762 of 1197 🔗

Another weepie. Tears are blessed when we weep against evil:

The girl on the other side of the glass is everything to the boy standing outside.
He stands there every afternoon, dreaming of touching her hand and smelling her hair, having to content himself with simply seeing her.
Frank Nothaft, 83, comes each day to the nursing home window to be near his wife Nicole. “I’d be so lost without her,” he confided.
He has come every day since May, when visitors were banned due to Covid-19. From 2 o’clock until sunset. Rain or shine. Swelter or snow. There sits Frank, even while Nicky sleeps. The couple celebrated their 60th wedding anniversary through that window. And Christmas. And now New Year’s Eve.
Nicole suffers from dementia. At 80 years old, she is at a point in life where memories have lost meaning, and familiar faces have become strangers.

https://redstate.com/tladuke/2020/12/31/true-love-2020-style-celebrating-your-60th-anniversary-through-nursing-home-glass-n302540

330416 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Annie, 3, #763 of 1197 🔗

Absolutely heartbreaking!

330492 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella Donna, #764 of 1197 🔗

Inhumane!!

330454 ▶▶ ElizaP, replying to Annie, #765 of 1197 🔗

That’s so sad. That poor couple.

330406 swedenborg, 11, #766 of 1197 🔗

There are many here stating that the virus has never been isolated and the PCR test is false. I think the best counter argument is this twitter thread from Kevin McKernan. This is a person firmly in the non lockdown team and even more importantly, one of the main persons now arguing that Drosten’s PCR test is inherently extremely unreliable and PCR shall not be misused as in mass testing.
McKernan has been involved in PCR testing for other purposes, perhaps more than any person in the world. In this below twitter thread ,he explains why Koch postulate for bacteria is not easily transferred to viruses. He also explains why it is often easier and better to use genomic sequences of the virus for testing and incl. vaccine production instead of a live virus. There are severe problems with virus cultures if you cannot find the appropriate cell lines. I think he explains rather good this problem in the thread. Remember, he is one of the main persons wanting to stop the mass PCR testing madness and is the best person to realize the weaknesses of PCR.

https://twitter.com/Kevin_McKernan/status/1344683958613782528

“OK Koch heads… bring your hurt. I’m glad you folks exist as we need people questioning everything. However, I have found the “virus doesn’t exist” arguments unconvincing. The virus isn’t the only cause of disease may have some ground. I remain open to new papers on this.

One comment on the twitter thread

“The real question is why a ‘deadly killer virus’ has little or no effect on the under 75 age group. That makes its existence a moot point.
McKernan’s answer

“This tweet says nothing about its virulence other than it’s been hard to culture in some cell lines and not in others. They could pull off the C19 media scam chasing the common cold as most of their viewers are brain dead and easily governed by fear.”

330408 THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 15, #767 of 1197 🔗

Right guys, need a hand. I’ve got a close mate who is fully behind masks.

He’s emoted onto me “No worries I don’t throw my toys out of the pram because of a little bit of cloth on my face”

I’ve never gone mad about it. I just refuse to wear one. In fact most of the people I see online are mask zealots going mad…

So what can I say to him about masks in return?

He’s a close mate but really fucking annoying on this one subject. He’s also a sceptic!

330412 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 3, #768 of 1197 🔗

By their masks, ye shall know them

330417 ▶▶ Liam, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 5, #769 of 1197 🔗

Show him this video demonstrating in three seconds how porous cloth masks are.

https://m.facebook.com/vafflecom/videos/mask-vaping/557811278201400/

330422 ▶▶ rockoman, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 10, #770 of 1197 🔗

If – it’s just a piece of cloth on your face from his point of view,

then ….

he implies that it is unimportant.

Turn that around on him and say that if it is so unimportant, then for somebody who doesn’t want to wear it, then it is just a piece of cloth that is not on the face.

330423 ▶▶ Nobody2021, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 24, #771 of 1197 🔗

For me it really is just a piece of cloth. I don’t have a problem with people wearing them.

What I have a problem with is making them mandatory.

The issue is that if you are happy for mandating things on the basis of very weak evidence then you are setting a very low bar on what you are willing to accept being forced upon you.

330424 ▶▶ Schrodinger, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 20, #772 of 1197 🔗

You could point out that if a former President of the Royal College of Surgeons says they don’t work even in the operating theatre Karen’s dirty facemask she just took out of the car ash tray probably isn’t going to either.

330459 ▶▶▶ frankfrankly, replying to Schrodinger, 1, #773 of 1197 🔗

Which newspaper is this in?

330469 ▶▶▶▶ Jo Starlin, replying to frankfrankly, 2, #774 of 1197 🔗

I think that looks like the Times typeface.

330634 ▶▶▶▶ Schrodinger, replying to frankfrankly, #775 of 1197 🔗

Telegraph 1st August 2020 I think.

330425 ▶▶ common conservative, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 1, #776 of 1197 🔗

Send him this:

https://www.aier.org/article/the-year-of-disguises/

If he’s a proper pal and respects you, he’ll read it. I read both sides, and I have not seen anything that undermines the science and argumentation in this article.

330426 ▶▶ Wolver, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 1, #777 of 1197 🔗

This site has a wealth of studies and graphs. Updated regularly to.

https://swprs.org/face-masks-evidence/

Will require some reading.

330428 ▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 9, #778 of 1197 🔗

Ah, the old “its only a mask” routine. I feel your pain. Direct him to the “Mask Exempt Lanyards” section of LS, above. Some good pieces of info on there. Direct him to the LaworFiction website which shows how you can legally exempt yourself. Or…dont bother to argue with him at all. Tell him you accept his opinion but you do NOT agree with it. Stay with your truth. Arm yourself with all the facts – I guarantee you will know more about this than he does. Ask him a few pertinent questions which will probably stump him. That’ll keep him quiet!

330452 ▶▶▶ ElizaP, replying to HelenaHancart, 7, #779 of 1197 🔗

I think they all bring that out. There’s a sick little Disney type cartoon going the round “It’s only a mask – it’s not such a big ask” and telling us all how selfish we are for not wearing one #sighs

330439 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 15, #780 of 1197 🔗

As it happens one of my exemption reasons, should i ever be asked (which i haven’t) is that I have a throat problem which probably relates to inhaling various agricultural, chemical and DIY dusts in my earlier years, I have had a throat operation its OK but very rough and i always need bags of fresh air. When in my later career I was given some Health and Safety responsibility we were checking our dust protection, it is very difficult to achieve, with some dusts you really need a full hood and a powered ventilation system. The real solution is to have systems in place to prevent dusts in the first place.
If you cannot effectively keep out damaging agricultural and seed treatment chemical dusts then one has to wonder why anyone thinks a piece of old cloth is going to stop a tiny virus particle?
They waited until the main spike had subsided and then introduced masks? very strange, does this not signal that it is more to do with psychological pressure than actual scientific disease prevention?

330442 ▶▶ common conservative, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 8, #781 of 1197 🔗

Also, if he’s a ‘sceptic’ then why doesn’t his scepticism apply to masks? Why is he so ready and willing to comply? If it’s all utter bollocks then it’s not just ‘a little bit of cloth on [his] face’, is it? He’s begging the question in favour of masks when that’s the very thing in question.

330444 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 1, #782 of 1197 🔗

It’s not our jobs to ‘convert’ people.

330476 ▶▶▶ common conservative, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #783 of 1197 🔗

It seems to me that it is our *duty* to try and convince lockdown/mask fundamentalists and passive types of their error whenever the opportunity arises.

330488 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #784 of 1197 🔗

I don’t think we should be evangelical about it and many are way beyond hope. However, if someone already shows signs of scepticism, I think it’s our duty to help them open their eyes fully.
We don’t have to preach, no need to be aggressive, just ask some questions that inspire a bit of critical thinking.

330483 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, #785 of 1197 🔗

Have you checked out the masks info section in the main blog?

330536 ▶▶ guy153, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 9, #786 of 1197 🔗

The overreaction to the pandemic has been a far bigger problem than the actual pandemic ever was or would have been and masks are a symbol of that.

If you wear one you’re kind of condoning all that. It’s also abundantly clear that the madness only ends when people stop complying with it.

The argument that a mask does no harm and may have a tiny theoretical benefit (“source control” has not been and practically speaking can’t be disproved) is something people tell themselves to feel better about the fact that they’re just complying out of weakness.

It’s also predicated on the other myth of asymptomatic spread. I don’t mind someone wearing a mask if they’re actually coughing and sneezing but it’s pretty obviously insane if you haven’t got Covid (or any other cold or flu like thing).

If someone tries to justify them with these kind of weak schience arguments ask him if he wore them before it became the law. Like back in March, say, during that pandemic we had that has been over for nearly a year now. This will hopefully help him to see why he is really wearing it and that it isn’t a good reason.

330613 ▶▶▶ Liewe, replying to guy153, 9, #787 of 1197 🔗

“the mask does no harm” argument always makes me explode! It is usually used by people that only wear it for short periods. Thousands of working people now have to wear it for 8-10 hours a day. One of my staff members is having severe asthma flares and another facial eczema. I’ve had to move them to back office duties so they can go maskless.
These are the harms no one ever talks about.

330742 ▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 2, #788 of 1197 🔗

Thanks very much for all your replies!

330431 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 16, #789 of 1197 🔗

I wonder why hospitals might be stepping up security?

https://twitter.com/PatrickBehSci/status/1344802449912197120

You know what you do when you have absolutely nothing to hide? Put up fences and hire security!

330432 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 6, #790 of 1197 🔗

Nother photo

330465 ▶▶▶ Pancho the Grey, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #791 of 1197 🔗

Well, that is one way of stopping hospitals becoming overloaded.

330487 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Nick Rose, 5, #792 of 1197 🔗

Must be the latest version of “protecting the NHS”

330569 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to DRW, #793 of 1197 🔗

and @Pancho the Grey Apparently a “pop-up” protest besieged this hospital before they erected the barricades.

330434 Tyneside Tigress 2021, 4, #794 of 1197 🔗

Happy New Year all and one.

Finally managed to reset the login to TT 2021 after a period of absence over Christmas. Seems we still have lots of work to do this year!

330440 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 7, #795 of 1197 🔗

Another quiet hospital

https://twitter.com/TomWho4/status/1344707757094670338

Croydon hospital in South London deserted. The NHS is at breaking point.

330801 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Nick Rose, #796 of 1197 🔗

Same at East Surrey on Wednesday. Ghost town.

330441 godowneasy, replying to godowneasy, 7, #797 of 1197 🔗

Sir Tom Jones is the latest aged celebrity to be jabbed – it shows there’s very little chance of explaining to anyone that THIS vaccine is different to the flu jab. He said:

“That’s one good thing about being 80, you’re first in line for the jab. It was fine, it was like getting the flu jab.”

He added : “It’s not unusual”

330448 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to godowneasy, 2, #798 of 1197 🔗

Yes, they’ll all come to see me
In the shade of that old oak tree
As they lay me ‘neath the green, green grass of home.

330453 ▶▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #799 of 1197 🔗

Sir Tom has already booked his ticket to Pontypridd “as a precaution”.

330570 ▶▶ iansn, replying to godowneasy, 2, #800 of 1197 🔗

Old Tom’s jabbed a few himself in his time 🙂

330443 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 24, #801 of 1197 🔗

Shouldn’t laugh, but this is pure comedy gold!

https://twitter.com/VolgerGoede/status/1344930883124531200

Bulgarian police uses pepper spray on protesters, and the wind blows it back into their faces, which is equal to peeing against the wind.

330450 ▶▶ ElizaP, replying to Nick Rose, 9, #802 of 1197 🔗

instant karma

330484 ▶▶ Janette, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #803 of 1197 🔗

Love it

330595 ▶▶ Crimson Avenger, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #804 of 1197 🔗

Highly symbolic.

330445 bebophaircut, replying to bebophaircut, 1, #805 of 1197 🔗

Currently listening to a Mark Windows Spreaker broadcast from almost three years ago Social engineers then and now . He mentionned Green Scene filmography techniques. Never heard of it before. Anybody familiar with it?

330449 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to bebophaircut, #806 of 1197 🔗

I think you probably mean, ‘Green Screen’. This is where you film some action against a uniform green background, you can then add a background in later processing. In earlier films, pre-digital, a blue screen was used, eg in the first Star Wars films.

330451 ▶▶ Pancho the Grey, replying to bebophaircut, 1, #807 of 1197 🔗

I think you will find it is green screen. It is used where they want to film a subject and add a background that has been filmed separately. The subject is filmed against a plain green background which enables the background to be removed electronically. The technique works fine except for doing it with Martians (or other green subjects).

330495 ▶▶ mj, replying to bebophaircut, #808 of 1197 🔗

watch the alternative queens speech from channel 4 christmas day – this shows how they did it … so you see the green screen work

330456 mr ben, replying to mr ben, 40, #809 of 1197 🔗

I help coach a youth football team in Norfolk. Organised grassroots sports are allowed to continue by current law but our club’s committee, along with several others in the area have decided to stop all matches and training. They claim to be doing this with the ‘safety’ of players, parents and coaches in mind. It is just incredible that these individuals have taken it upon themselves to take further steps than the already insane government.
Surely the mental and physical well being of the players is helped best by letting them play? Hell I need it for my sanity.
This is what we are up against. What is wrong with people?

330475 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to mr ben, 16, #810 of 1197 🔗

Kids football has been a lovely little exclave of normality in these crazy times. I understand your frustration.

330532 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to mr ben, 10, #811 of 1197 🔗

Saw that in our village during November lockdown where some overzealous dogooder attached CLOSED signs to the playground……

These people must be stopped

330747 ▶▶▶ Annie, replying to Victoria, #812 of 1197 🔗

You only had signs? All our local playgrounds were locked and bolted.

330615 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to mr ben, 1, #813 of 1197 🔗

Unfortunately as we’ve seen with this shit show; companies, institutions and organisations have the tendency to over egg the pudding or even jump the gun before the government. Your football club is another one of the examples of this over egging the pudding.

Perhaps some of the parents can band together and create a group for those who want to carry on with playing, training and practice.

330460 godowneasy, 8, #814 of 1197 🔗

Wham!’s Last Christmas has topped the UK singles chart for the first time, 36 years after it was first released.

How ironic – they should have retitled it THE Last Christmas.

330470 suitejb, replying to suitejb, 9, #815 of 1197 🔗

I see there’s a lovely photo of queueing ambulances on the BBC homepage. Wonder how old that is?

330478 ▶▶ Jo Starlin, replying to suitejb, 23, #816 of 1197 🔗

Ambulances don’t “queue” outside A&E. The crew has to take the patient in, see them admitted and do an official handover. It can take hours, I saw it at first hand a year ago with a relative who had a heart attack.
What the ambulances are doing is known as “parking.”

330473 Cheezilla, 7, #817 of 1197 🔗

I’ve killed the links so this will post easily. You’ll just have to copy and paste into your browser, or find them on theTelegram group Protest Everywhere..

UK upcoming protests – Put them in your calendar
(List updated 1st Jan – 3pm)

ATTENTION
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The events list is updated regularly, to ensure everyone views the updated version, only share the list by forwarding or copy and pasting the post below this one https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/13.0.1/svg/203c.svg
——————————————————————————-

Saturday 2nd

Edinburgh – 12:30pm – Holyrood – Guest speakers – (Saving Scotland)

Cardiff – 12pm – Welsh Assembly (Senedd), Cardiff Bay

London – 1:30pm – Speakers Corner, Hyde Park (The Peoples Lockdown: https://www.facebook.com/watch/chrispreddie/ )

Shrewsbury Quarry – 1pm – Speakers: Charlie Parker plus local guests – (SUX / Shropshire)

York – 12-2pm – St Sampsons Square, near Browns – Not a protests but a truthers information stand – weather permitting – (www.WakeUpYorkshire. com) –


Sunday – 3rd

Nottingham – 1pm – Victoria Embankment War Memorial – (SUX), (Peace Force) – Paying a visit to the BBC building

Monday – 4th

Aylesbury – 12pm – Town Centre at the big clock

London – 9am – Julian Assange results are being announced at The Old Bailey, Central Criminal Court, London, GB EC4M 7EH

12 Jan
10am – Support Amelia in Court – Uxbridge Court, The Court House, Harefield Road, UB81BQ
Be there for 9am to protest and show your support. Police brutality must stop.

————————————————————————————
Please check the governments website for current travel regulations: http://www.legislation.gov.uk
You’re responsible for your own safety so please keep ahead of current Covid guidelines

Any mistakes please contact: @sophiaroselove

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Send in anything you think is missing from the channel. Anything that you think would be good FOR EVERYONE TO SEE

Protests are exempt from Covid gathering restrictions in all 3 tiers. For tier 4 and 5 please check the governments guidance.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1374/pdfs/uksi_20201374_en.pdf

Join us: https://t.me/ProtestEverywhere
To chat about everything! https://t.me/REDandFollow
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330477 Jo Starlin, 2, #818 of 1197 🔗

Deleted

330481 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 11, #819 of 1197 🔗

Here’s the report that will close the primary schools. Anyone understand it?

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/mrc-global-infectious-disease-analysis/covid-19/report-42-sars-cov-2-variant/

There’s been loads of media coverage to get the schools closed too. Don’t think I’ll bother buying my child new trainers for PE.

I’m going to be flattened looking after my child, trying to work, helping her learn. And she’s got special needs. I seriously give up!

330485 ▶▶ Ricky1, replying to Country Mumkin, 19, #820 of 1197 🔗

What does Imperial have against the people of this country.

330549 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Ricky1, 2, #821 of 1197 🔗

Big sponsors.

330841 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Ricky1, 1, #822 of 1197 🔗

I am SO depressed about all of this. I’m not sure how I can possibly manage the education of a special needs child, keeping her looked after and entertained throughout the day, concentrating on really complicated work and that’s before the rest of the house stuff. My child needs socialisation too (as do I). This is shite!

330504 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Country Mumkin, 3, #823 of 1197 🔗

Well, they say that the new variant is more transmissible and a greater proportion of new cases of it are being seen in the under 20s than with other variants in the past. However, they don’t draw any firm conclusions why that might be the case. They acknolwedge that since schools were open during the second lockdown, but not much else was, this might be one reason why it seemed to spread more among school children.

An alternative hypothesis offered is that symtpoms are more obvious in children with the variant (propmting more people to come forward for testing), and a final one is that under 20s are genuinely more susceptible to the variant.

Does that help at all?

330538 ▶▶▶ Jo Dominich, replying to Charlie Blue, 5, #824 of 1197 🔗

WHO said, in response to Wancock’s wopping big lie about it that there was no evidence at all that it affected children.

330562 ▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Jo Dominich, 1, #825 of 1197 🔗

I’m not saying otherwise – was just trying to interpret the paper for Country Mumkin’s benefit.

330507 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Country Mumkin, 7, #826 of 1197 🔗

“While evidence has accumulated that substitutions associated with the B.1.1.7 lineage are
associated with significant changes in virus phenotype
2–4,15
, assessing the extent to which these
changes lead to meaningful differences in transmission between humans is challenging and
cannot be evaluated experimentally. ”

This is in that actual document, but in the “discussion” section several pages in that politicians won’t read as far as.

This is a trick well-known to the IPCC who write alarmist “summaries for policy makers” but then equivocate about things lot more in the actual text.

I made a couple of comments earlier about the “new strain”. The evidence that it’s actually more infectious is poor.

330527 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Country Mumkin, 4, #827 of 1197 🔗

PHE says (28/12/20):
Investigation of novel SARS-COV-2 variant.
Preliminary results from the cohort study found no statistically significant difference in hospitalisation and 28-day case fatality between cases with the variant (VOC 201212/01) and wild-type comparator cases. There was also no significant difference in the likelihood of reinfection between variant cases and the comparator group.

So what’s going on?

330541 ▶▶▶ Jo Dominich, replying to Sam Vimes, #828 of 1197 🔗

Wancock’s got a different agenda!

330486 bebophaircut, replying to bebophaircut, 3, #829 of 1197 🔗

Investigate the history of Waltham (SP?) Forest’s transformation. Mark Windows knows all about it. He lived there and finally had to leave.

330506 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to bebophaircut, 3, #830 of 1197 🔗

Correct spelling FWIW.

330498 Richard O, replying to Richard O, 67, #831 of 1197 🔗

Assuming that the virus is real, imagine a scenario where the government and MSM had done absolutely nothing in response to it.

There would have been no spike in deaths in March/April (almost exclusively caused by dumping all elderly hospital patients into care homes and then denying them treatment). Other than this, deaths this year have followed a pattern more or less identical to many previous years. There would have been no lockdowns, distancing, masks, temperature checks, hand sanitising or rushed vaccine.

In other words, it would have been business as usual, with some people complaining of having had a particularly nasty cold at some point. Nothing more.

Instead, we have one of the greatest shitshows in history that is completely destroying our civilisation, caused solely by the actions of government and MSM and the subsequent compliance of the vast majority of the population with the imposed new paradigm.

330513 ▶▶ Liam, replying to Richard O, 9, #832 of 1197 🔗

Yes. Deaths (all causes) went through the roof in April (almost entirely for the reasons you mention), were a bit high in May and since then haven’t been anything to write home about.

Edit: bit high in may not April. April was a genuine very large spike.

330652 ▶▶▶ jonathan Palmer, replying to Liam, 2, #833 of 1197 🔗

That was when the killing fields in the care homes got going.

330602 ▶▶ liztr835, replying to Richard O, 17, #834 of 1197 🔗

Totally right, I dont think most of us would have noticed, from my point of view it has seemed a mild year for illness in the circle of people I know.

However, this has been the worst year of my life, told I cant work and run my business, didnt qualify for any help. No hope for the next few months, all over a virus that most people wont even know they have. I have been made physically ill by this. It makes me worry that if we have a year where the flu vaccine does not work, will we do it all again, or if there is a particulally bad cold going around. They have let old people die, and are not protecting them, if not even a hospital can prevent it spreading which is where many get it, how they hell can we everywhere else. I know this virus has been hell for some, but unfortunately thats life, it happened to me with glandular fever, where I was ill for 1 year.

330617 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Richard O, 9, #835 of 1197 🔗

Ah, Yes, you forget one important fact that should not be over looked. If ‘the government and the MSM had done absolutely nothing in response to it’ The creation of over 50 billionaires in 2020 would not have happened!!………….follow the money!!

330500 Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, 8, #836 of 1197 🔗

I just came across this article, via another link below. Has this been posted before?

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20201215/Not-all-masks-protect-the-same-Research-suggests-no-mask-better-than-an-old-mask.aspx

Some of this is just the standard narrative (eg: “While there is a wealth of evidence that demonstrates the efficacy of wearing a face mask at reducing the community transmission of COVID-19 .”) but the article doesn’t provide the evidence.

However towards the end, the article talks about the dangers of infection due to mask airflow. Perhaps its what a number of us have already thought, that COVID transmission may actually be increased with mask wearing?

330502 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, 3, #837 of 1197 🔗

Hmmm – the author’s bio reads as follows:

Written by

Sarah Moore

After studying Psychology and then Neuroscience, Sarah quickly found her enjoyment for researching and writing research papers; turning to a passion to connect ideas with people through writing.

330512 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Ozzie, 8, #838 of 1197 🔗

Her scientific credentials are perfect to be proselytising and pontificating on masks. Why? Because the mask is a tool of psychological oppression and ritual humiliation.

330514 Londo Mollari, replying to Londo Mollari, 7, #839 of 1197 🔗

What’s the logic behind one Pfizer shot instead of the two as per the trials? Is this another cunning, evil plan, or is it another cock-up?

330518 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Londo Mollari, 13, #840 of 1197 🔗

Just dragging it out.

330523 ▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Sam Vimes, 5, #841 of 1197 🔗

Will a delayed second jab be less effective or more lethal? Will people be put off taking it?

330535 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Londo Mollari, 9, #842 of 1197 🔗

They will believe whatever they are told. The jab won’t work. It was never going to work. As long as the lockdown continues, all is good…

330552 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Sam Vimes, 11, #843 of 1197 🔗

Yes, the vaccine is the pretext for introducing the digital immunity passport concept which leads us down the track and trace for life path. I see no reason why the cycle of new strains/viruses leading to new lockdowns and new vaccines won’t be perpetuated indefinitely.

330737 ▶▶▶▶▶ Annie, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #844 of 1197 🔗

I don’t give a stuff whether it works or not, or whether you need two shots or you don’t, or whether there is a difference among brands of snake oil. If the moron majority believe in it, and all, or even some, clamour for normality after receiving it, their fascist controllers will have to stop the lying death porn and go back to normal. In which case, long live snake oil.

330548 ▶▶ Ricky1, replying to Londo Mollari, 6, #845 of 1197 🔗

Neil Clarke saying a source says no easing of restrictions till July. This is probably why.

330557 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Londo Mollari, 6, #846 of 1197 🔗

Less risk of side effects coming out en masse? I’ve heard the second dose is more potent.

330586 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Londo Mollari, 2, #847 of 1197 🔗

I thought logic had been outlawed?

330596 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Londo Mollari, 5, #848 of 1197 🔗

Making it up as they go along yet people still cling to the government’s every word. Bizarre.

330515 rockoman, replying to rockoman, 16, #849 of 1197 🔗

If anyone wants to get up to speed with masks and why they don’t work, then check out Denis Rancourt’s many articles or his videos on Bitchute.

Many RCTs (randomized, controlled trials) have been carried out, and none of them show any significant effect.

So, take away the science, and what you have left is superstition.

330519 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to rockoman, #850 of 1197 🔗

Links please

330862 ▶▶▶ Hamilton, replying to Victoria, 2, #851 of 1197 🔗

Denis Rancourt “Masks Don’t Work…”

https://www.researchgate.net/post/Whats-your-point-towards-facemask-usage-under-COVID-19

Scroll down a bit for the discussion. David Hagen’s comment, which gives a link to a drop box version of Rancourt’s paper, is about half way down the comment stream. Here’s the drop box link:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w5eojbzj13zbnyd/COVID-19_Rancourt-Masks-dont-work-review-science-re-COVID19-policy.pdf?dl=0

There’s also a discussion at WattsUpWithThat:

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/06/13/covid-censorship-at-researchgate-facts-about-face-coverings-covered-up/

All this is a bit old hat by now (old mask?).

330524 Hubes, replying to Hubes, 15, #852 of 1197 🔗

I’ve got an asymptomatic headache.

330533 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Hubes, 15, #853 of 1197 🔗

I’m an asymptomatic billionaire.

330543 ▶▶▶ common conservative, replying to Sam Vimes, 8, #854 of 1197 🔗

I’m an asymptomatic top scorer for Chelsea.

And I don’t kneel before games.

330547 ▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to Sam Vimes, 9, #855 of 1197 🔗

Haha. I’m asymptomatically asleep.

330529 wayno, replying to wayno, 1, #856 of 1197 🔗

Lockdown zealot, covididiot theme tune https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d08rlbrUOco

330677 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to wayno, 1, #857 of 1197 🔗

If there’s a question causing you to go astray
Just stuff it down inside until it goes away.

Yeah. Right!

330539 Charlie Blue, replying to Charlie Blue, 11, #858 of 1197 🔗

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/01/01/london-primary-schools-remain-closed-beginning-new-term/

“The capital’s 32 boroughs will now keep all schools closed until January 18 at the earliest after the latest U-turn from the Education Secretary.”

Total shocker. So no schools going back in England by Sunday night, do we think?

330544 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Charlie Blue, 27, #859 of 1197 🔗

Who the hell is running this country? The mad scientists of SAGE, or the bloody government?

330555 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Tenchy, 24, #860 of 1197 🔗

And what the hell will it take before people wake up and say NO, just how much more abuse can people take …

330559 ▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to kh1485, 26, #861 of 1197 🔗

DM comments so far full of people clamouring for all schools everywhere to be shut. STILL morons talking about children not being safe – I just can’t imagine how anything could penetrate material of such density.

330567 ▶▶▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to Charlie Blue, 10, #862 of 1197 🔗

It’s all those brain cells that died while they wore their masks.

330573 ▶▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Charlie Blue, 16, #863 of 1197 🔗

A couple of days ago someone told me that kids are the main spreaders of covid and they should be kept apart,I don’t think there is anyway of penetrating that kind of brainwashed mind.

330576 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Paul, 8, #864 of 1197 🔗

Dangerous imbeciles

330582 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ frankfrankly, replying to Paul, 11, #865 of 1197 🔗

Particularly since there is a study from Iceland involving 40k people (a lot in that country) proving the opposite.

330594 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Paul, 9, #866 of 1197 🔗

We really are screwed if the majority are that bad.

330607 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to DRW, 3, #867 of 1197 🔗

Yes,that’s what I was left thinking afterwards.

330597 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Paul, 5, #868 of 1197 🔗

I guess people are hearing things like this on Radio 5 Live
https://mobile.twitter.com/bbc5live/status/1345006866829463552
London hospital matron claiming she has a ward full of children with covid now.

330664 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Charlie Blue, 2, #869 of 1197 🔗

FFS!!!

330618 ▶▶▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Charlie Blue, 9, #870 of 1197 🔗

But how can we believe those figures? They could say ANYTHING and we have no way of checking if we’re being lied to.
Yes – there are some barking mad, self-absorbed dimwits out there, who live their lives on InYourFaceBook – but this is being presented as if it’s the majority of the population.
Divide and rule?

330561 ▶▶▶▶ Adamb, replying to kh1485, 7, #871 of 1197 🔗

As a Greenwich parent at least they gave us 48 hours or so of patently false hope. Can you bet on these decisions? Could do with supplementing the income.

330588 ▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 9, #872 of 1197 🔗

Talking with a friend this afternoon,who like the rest of us despairs at the public’s non-reaction to everything and she agreed that the public at large has developed a strong immunity to being able to smell bullshit and they happily,or at least obliviously,absorb every new piece of insanity with complete nonchalance.

330599 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 8, #873 of 1197 🔗

As I keep saying, wait until *they* come for the money, that’s when these idiots will wake up.

330612 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 6, #874 of 1197 🔗

Yes,that’s exactly the conclusion we came to this afternoon,I can’t believe most people can’t see that’s what’s coming at some point.

330556 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Tenchy, 5, #875 of 1197 🔗

In this case the labour council and the unions seem to be the main players.

330611 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Tenchy, 4, #876 of 1197 🔗

Well, they’re unelected – which seems to give people extra powers these days.

330571 ▶▶ theanalyst, replying to Charlie Blue, 10, #877 of 1197 🔗

The UK is now a failing state. Utterly useless government. Gates must be wetting himself.

330577 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Charlie Blue, 6, #878 of 1197 🔗

Lazy teachers really want to WFH again don’t they, there have been pushes since October.

330591 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to DRW, 10, #879 of 1197 🔗

Some teachers will be lazy – there are lazy people in all professions. But I don’t think this is coming from teachers – it’s much bigger than that. I was talking to a teacher friend earlier who is ridiculously anxious (young and no vulnerabilities) about covid, but was raging at the idea that she would have to teach remotely again. In her school, at least, they are now required to provide whatever they would have done in person over the internet in real time. She doesn’t expect many of her pupils to join in, though!

330603 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Charlie Blue, 42, #880 of 1197 🔗

I still don’t get why people are so frightened of this disease. Sure, if there were dead bodies lying in the street and supermarket staff were dropping like flies and the mortuaries and undertakers were unable to cope, yes I would get it. But none of this is happening. I suppose this is what you get when people rely solely on the virtual world rather than looking at the real world with their own eyes.

330627 ▶▶▶▶▶ jb12, replying to kh1485, 8, #881 of 1197 🔗

That is exactly it. These people are so far gone that they believe the Thinking Box over their own eyes and experience. It is scary, they are the undead.

330659 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to jb12, 4, #882 of 1197 🔗

In 1984 The Party’s final command was to reject your eyes and ears. Isn’t even a command now.

330687 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to kh1485, 6, #883 of 1197 🔗

And in the naked light I saw
Ten thousand people, maybe more
People talking without speaking
People hearing without listening
People writing songs that voices never share
No one dared
Disturb the sound of silence

People are frightened because 2020 was the year people re-discovered death. Aside from the spike in April/May deaths have been around the sort of figures you might expect, but the people have been spooked.

330727 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Annie, replying to Steve Martindale, 4, #884 of 1197 🔗

There us no death but Covid, they think.
The truth us that there is no life with Covid Fascism, only living death.

330722 ▶▶▶▶▶ Annie, replying to kh1485, 4, #885 of 1197 🔗

Got it in one. The zombies don’t live in the real world.
That wouldn’t worry me in the least if the Zombie Fascist government didn’t force the rest of us to live in the shitty pseudo-world that they have invented.

330668 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Charlie Blue, 4, #886 of 1197 🔗

And that is the tragedy, which is why the yummy mummies, whose kids are engaged at school, love this shite because it extents their little darlings advantage over the great unwashed and they don’t even have to pay for it so they can virtue signal about private education.

330580 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Charlie Blue, 10, #887 of 1197 🔗

We are certainly not winning. The psychotic elements in our society have delivered another nail into the coffin

330581 ▶▶ liztr835, replying to Charlie Blue, 16, #888 of 1197 🔗

We are treating our children like dirt, and no one seems to care. All for a mostly harmless virus. We all know they wont go back at all in January.

330592 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to liztr835, 7, #889 of 1197 🔗

And probably not February or March either.

330629 ▶▶ mikewaite, replying to Charlie Blue, 13, #890 of 1197 🔗

It will not be all schools. At the 2nd lockdown when state primaries were closed the local private boys prep school near us was boasting of the number of face- to- face teachng hours it managed during the “universal” lockdown. Same with the Girls prep just up the road .
Private pupils will continue to forge ahead, state pupils held back .
God I hate this government/ .
I you getting the message GCHQ?.
Sit up, put away the porno mags,. adjust your clothing and get on the blower to 10 Downing St and tell them what a “tsunami” (to use Prof Montgomery’s phrase) of hatred is heading his way.

330675 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to mikewaite, 7, #891 of 1197 🔗

It isn’t the private schools fault that the offering in the majority of state schools was fucking dreadful. It needn’t have been like that, as the few state schools that could be bothered demonstrated.

330565 bebophaircut, 5, #892 of 1197 🔗

I just posted this link to Zuckerberg promising to censor undesirable comments on Facebook during last year’s Presidential election. They already took down my link to Lockdown Skeptics from a few hours ago.

https://m.facebook.com/home.php?s=1498367517&sstr=10223959323519785&stype=s&postid=10223959323519785&gfid=AQA_1hNJKAp2Fwb3vow&_rdr

330578 Londo Mollari, replying to Londo Mollari, 24, #893 of 1197 🔗

Simon Dolan retweeted a message from Gareth Icke.

“So the fella (Professor Hugh Montgomery) who said those that didn’t wear masks had blood on their hands, formed a medical supplies company called Panthair Ltd, in January 2020. Wonder if ‘medical supplies’ include PPE?”

330601 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Londo Mollari, 33, #894 of 1197 🔗

There is this:

https://twitter.com/DavidRebel20/status/1344793414148231168

After remarks about non-mask wearers, I’m exploring with my solicitor legal action against both @hugh_montgomery and @WhitHealth NHS Trust who employ him. Under the Equality Act, 2010.

330632 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Nick Rose, 7, #895 of 1197 🔗

Brilliant. I complained to the BBC, for all the good it will do.

330606 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Londo Mollari, 6, #896 of 1197 🔗

Just gotta follow the £££££££

330619 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Londo Mollari, 2, #897 of 1197 🔗

Nature of business (SIC)

  • 32500 – Manufacture of medical and dental instruments and supplies

SIC Code 32500 includes the following:

https://gbrcifra.com/?option=country&id=32500%20-%20Manufacture%20of%20medical%20and%20dental%20instruments%20and%20supplies

330584 crimsonpirate, 2, #898 of 1197 🔗
330593 leggy, replying to leggy, 3, #899 of 1197 🔗

It’s a couple of weeks old, but just spent the last hour watching this from Mike Yeadon and Pandata’s Nick Hudson – excellent content as always from these Gents. I think it’s the first time I’ve heard Mike swear!

https://www.bitchute.com/video/7cJSUIHyO7Ad/

330715 ▶▶ Janette, replying to leggy, 1, #900 of 1197 🔗

A must watch. Excellent presentation from Mike and Nick.

330605 bebophaircut, 8, #901 of 1197 🔗

I was wrong, Facebook has not yet deleted my link to Lockdown Skeptics. Goody.

330608 George Mc, replying to George Mc, 19, #902 of 1197 🔗

Do you remember when that highly moral BBC boasted that it would never permit an advert to stain its integrity? How ironic that the entire BBC has become one vast advert . For the vax, of course. Lots of talking heads demanding the vax. Outrage that the vax isn’t coming out faster than the speed of light. Despair at the absolutely certain skyrocketing death figures should the vax not reach everyone in the next hour. Hell – you wouldn’t even consider the unthinkable here would you i.e. turning down the vax? That is the ultimate blasphemy that dare not speak its name.

And in other news …oh who am I kidding there is no other news. Just variations on the Covid Danse Macabre. Like the eminently sensible and indeed only decent decision to keep schools closed. God indeed moves in mysterious ways and his mighty test tablets have whispered in sepulchral tones about plagues and pestilences coursing through the very atoms of the poor souls who didn’t even know they were damned. The media priests were utterly devastated – but then again they’d only just been handed the script and, not being paid to think or wonder, had no idea of the coming doom which everyone else could see from miles off – from last April to be precise. That’s when they saw the trailers.

But let’s end on an upbeat. It seems that the NHS staff are looking forward to “nail biting” weeks ahead. Well I suppose biting your nails will give you something to do in the empty wards.

330623 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to George Mc, 14, #903 of 1197 🔗

Of all the MSM organisations in the world that have blood on their hands, I think the BBC has to be the worst of the lot. It is now Covid Cult Central. That would be a good acronym for it actually: CCC.

330640 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Richard O, 4, #904 of 1197 🔗

It’s moderate image has been used, cynically. There are people that trust it implicitly

330609 common conservative, 10, #905 of 1197 🔗

This makes me so sad and so angry. This is utterly heartbreaking. In one story we see the best and the worst of humanity. A dear, loving, elderly couple forced apart by the diktats of an evil regime. How utterly and bitterly paradoxical. I pray that this dear couple get to hold each other again. I pray the same for countless other couples like this dear couple:

https://www.deadlinedetroit.com/articles/26995/leduff_frank_and_nicky_in_sickness_and_in_health_on_opposite_sides_of_the_glass?fbclid=IwAR10WL7XPp6-btDZiRRQdEompeCL_703GtISc6Bh4FroGD378hVoDaAY4Wc

330610 Londo Mollari, replying to Londo Mollari, 17, #906 of 1197 🔗

From journalist Neil Clarke on Twitter. “My inside source says that there will be no significant easing of restrictions until July at the earliest. Govt mentioning Easter as they need to take backbenchers with them.”

330614 ▶▶ liztr835, replying to Londo Mollari, 14, #907 of 1197 🔗

I cant work unless in Tier 3 or lower, so who will pay my bills as one of the 3 million excluded, would love to know what the goverment will say to that!

330628 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Londo Mollari, 12, #908 of 1197 🔗

Excellent insider information. We all know of course that there is never planned to be any significant easing of restrictions.

330630 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Londo Mollari, 4, #909 of 1197 🔗

guess that means no tennis at Wimbledon this year.

330683 ▶▶▶ nottingham69, replying to crimsonpirate, 6, #910 of 1197 🔗

Always the odd positive, even in these times. The BBC love Wimbledon, especially the ghastly performance enhancing TUE cheats that are the Williams sisters.

330635 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to Londo Mollari, 19, #911 of 1197 🔗

This is permanent now. We’ll just stay in varying degrees of lockdown for good, the lowest anybody will be ok this year will be 2 (for 2-3 summer months). Every winter everybody will be in tier 4, then after 1-2 years it won’t matter what tier you’re in because they’ll be nothing left to reopen.

330899 ▶▶▶ jonathan Palmer, replying to Hubes, 1, #912 of 1197 🔗

Lockdowns are here to stay.Life as we knew it is over.They are there to collapse the economy and stop people socialising and will remain to deal with the fight back that will ensue.It will then be rebuilt in a zero carbon way and our lives will be extremely different.
Read UN agenda 21/30 for a taste of what is to come.

330620 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 33, #913 of 1197 🔗

Just listened to Sir Desmond Swayne – the man speaks a lot of sense and pretty much asks the questions for us.

None of this makes sense and we are sliding more and more into insanity. This is already insane but the government seems hell bent on making everything even more insane.

330643 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #914 of 1197 🔗

All very well talking but they really need to start acting.

330621 BTLnewbie, replying to BTLnewbie, 11, #915 of 1197 🔗

I’ve not been listening to MSM on the vaccine – guess I ought to know what the line is, though, as I will be having some very difficult conversations with friends and colleagues:
1 Is the vaccine being sold as a one-off or annual event, ie are they pretending that it stops you from EVER getting SARSCov2 – if not, how long re they pretending it’s effective for?
2 The ‘95% effectiveness’ of the Pfizer one is based on the number of vaccinated who got Covid (in a very short space of time) vs the control group – are Pfizer continuing to monitor this vaccinated group to see how many get covid in the next few months and will they publish follow-up reports?

330625 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to BTLnewbie, 6, #916 of 1197 🔗

on the BBC the other day it was said that it is OK for pregnant women and women who are breastfeeding to take either of the vaccines as it was decided the benefits outweighed the risks.
There we have it for the first time since this all started- a risk/benefit analysis.

330631 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to crimsonpirate, 18, #917 of 1197 🔗

Which is the complete opposite of the advice for health professionals published on the government’s website.

The BBC is nothing more than a marketing tool for big pharma.

330636 ▶▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Richard O, 2, #918 of 1197 🔗

also it was vague and unsourced

330656 ▶▶▶ CapLlam, replying to crimsonpirate, 9, #919 of 1197 🔗

I read the new guidelines on gov site and it says to discuss it with your GP before having the vaccine.

I’m still not going to take it as I’m not putting my unborn baby at risk for something I would survive if I caught it and even when they are born later this year, again there is no evidence it wouldn’t transmit through breast feeding as no studies have been done.

330663 ▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to CapLlam, 7, #920 of 1197 🔗

If you are of childbearing age, without serious underlying conditions and not nhs/carer then I reckon your little one will be have left home and started their own family before the rollout gets around to you.

330864 ▶▶▶▶▶ CapLlam, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #921 of 1197 🔗

Yes I’m in my thirties with no underlying conditions and don’t work in the nhs / caring industry so it will be probably when my youngest has flown the nest before they get round to us.

interestingly my sister in law who works for the nhs is due to have the jab this month and is refusing to have it.

330938 ▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to crimsonpirate, #922 of 1197 🔗

There is currently no published data. Surprisingly 1/20 women of childbearing potential (18-45) are pregnant at any time. They have about a four-fold higher risk of severe covid due to immunosuppression. So the risk of covid is known. Balancing that against known risks from other vaccines, like the new RSV vaccine specifically FOR pregnant women to pass on protection to the newborn, is challenging. Reproductive toxicology studies will report soon.

330646 ▶▶ Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, replying to BTLnewbie, 16, #923 of 1197 🔗

It doesn’t stop transmission and that was never a criterion against which the vaccine was measured. The “effectiveness” pertains to symptoms — apparently symptoms are more mild. So in the case of a young, healthy person who might feel a bit unwell for 3 days, the vaccine may reduce that to 2 days. There is no data as to whether or not hospital admissions or death is reduced among the vaccine group; my guess is that the trial participants are too young and healthy for this to be measured. They have no idea how long this so-called effectiveness lasts. The 95% effectiveness is relative, not absolute, so if memory serves it translates into a 1% difference between the vaccine group and the placebo group but I don’t want to pretend I’m sure about this. And, of course, there is zero data on long-term effects of the vaccine for obvious reasons. The mRNA technology is new and, additionally, there has never been a successful corona vaccine despite decades of attempts. With minimal animal trials for these new vaccines there is no way to know if ADE (antibody dependent enhancement) will be an issue when vaccinated individual are exposed to the wild virus. This is where coronavirus vaccines have always failed in animal trials. They produce an immune response, but it’s the wrong sort, and so when exposed to the wild virus the animals ended up becoming very ill (cytokine storm). Hope that helps!

330653 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, 2, #924 of 1197 🔗

It doesn’t stop transmission and that was never a criterion against which the vaccine was measured

We don’t know if it stops transmission. It might – but the evidence isn’t there yet.

330657 ▶▶▶▶ jonathan Palmer, replying to Mayo, 7, #925 of 1197 🔗

If we don’t know then why are the government preparing to inject the whole population with an experimental potion.

330661 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to jonathan Palmer, -8, #926 of 1197 🔗

It stops people who are vaccinated getting symptoms – whether or not they actually contract the virus is not known yet.

Look, I’m not a great fan of vaccination, but it’s clear the Pfizer vaccine is very effective.

330666 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Mayo, 6, #927 of 1197 🔗

Mayo from the 77th just ignore him

330670 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Cecil B, -10, #928 of 1197 🔗

This “sceptic” site seems to harbour people with the same attitudes towards censorship as the social media giants.

Pathetic.

330674 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Mayo, 5, #929 of 1197 🔗

I am pleased to see you, Mayo, as always.

330706 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Charlie Blue, -3, #930 of 1197 🔗

Hmm – I can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not but if memory serves you are on of the more reasonable LS readers so I’ll go for ‘not’ – Cheers.

330714 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Mayo, 5, #931 of 1197 🔗

Not saracasm, Mayo! Definitely from the heart. As time goes on we are in ever more danger of lazy thinking (or no thinking) and becoming just as dogmatic as the lockdowners. Cheers!

330726 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Charlie Blue, 5, #932 of 1197 🔗

I’ve rarely seen dogmatism on this site.

330741 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to OKUK, 2, #933 of 1197 🔗

And long may that continue.

330802 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to OKUK, #934 of 1197 🔗

if there ever was any dogma on this site it would soon be run over by our karma

330748 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Charlie Blue, #935 of 1197 🔗

Thanks – I appreciate your comment.

There are times when we need people to play devil’s advocate. I think too many accepted LS beliefs are based on dodgy facts.

I still think lockdowns are the wrong policy,

330922 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to Charlie Blue, #936 of 1197 🔗

I believe sceptics should keep questioning and listening to different views so I welcome May’s posts too. I might be unusual here as I’m virus cautious but I’m fiercely anti lockdown and feel vulnerable people like myself should be free to make their own choices how to be careful and the young and healthly free to live their lives with just a few sensible Swedish type guidelines like staying at home when ill.

330691 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Mayo, 6, #937 of 1197 🔗

Please do share with us when you are ”jabbed” and how you feel, minute by minute.

330721 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mayo, 4, #938 of 1197 🔗

Social media giants don’t say “ignore Trump”. They actively censor him, as do MSM TV.

330752 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to OKUK, -3, #939 of 1197 🔗

If you had the power …….. ??

330804 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mayo, 4, #940 of 1197 🔗

I’d create legal jeopardy for social media giants interfering with people’s natural rights, as they have done recently in Poland. I’d require fee speech on publicly funded academia. I’d also defund the BBC and close it down owing to its persistent anti-free speech agitation.

330845 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to OKUK, #941 of 1197 🔗

Ok – it wasn’t you who supported the ‘ignore’ comment and, to be fair, you have engaged in reasonable debate.

330785 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ jonathan Palmer, replying to Mayo, 4, #942 of 1197 🔗

I like dissenters because it can hone your arguments and clarify thinking.

330820 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to jonathan Palmer, -2, #943 of 1197 🔗

Exactly.

330939 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to jonathan Palmer, #944 of 1197 🔗

Exactly the reason I follow this site. Always happy to engage in scientific debate.

330844 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ iansn, replying to Cecil B, #945 of 1197 🔗

he cant be its bank holiday and he is commenting, they dont pay double time for bank holidays

330680 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Mayo, 8, #946 of 1197 🔗

What about the completely unknown long term side effects?

330692 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to DRW, 1, #947 of 1197 🔗

It’s possible there will be some long term effects.

330696 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Mayo, 2, #948 of 1197 🔗

Perhaps you will allow us to share them with you once you’ve been ”done”.

330718 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Banjones, #949 of 1197 🔗

There is a tendency among zealots on both sides to interpret something in a statement which simply isn’t there.

I don’t remember saying I was going to take the vaccine. I simply said the vaccine appears to be very effective and that there might be some long term effects.

As far as I know, most SARS-CoV-2 vaccines are still undergoing Phase III trials which are not due to end until 2022.

330745 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mayo, 3, #950 of 1197 🔗

You don’t sound very keen. 🙂

330713 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Mayo, 3, #951 of 1197 🔗

Are those really justifiable against the risk of what is for most a cold? It’s not even guaranteed the Pfizer one won’t cause infertility.

330725 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to DRW, 2, #952 of 1197 🔗

while I agree the situation is far from ideal, hell will probably freeze over long before they get around to jabbing people of child-bearing age. I still maintain that this is one of the times when our Government’s ineptitude is our friend.

330739 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Charlie Blue, 3, #953 of 1197 🔗

What are you on about? It’s being offered now to all medical staff.

330733 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to DRW, 2, #954 of 1197 🔗

Precisely, if this was a real plague with serious consequences for healthy humans everyone would be queuing up.

330734 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to DRW, 2, #955 of 1197 🔗

There is no reason at all to think it might cause infertility. That stuff about syncitin-1 was complete nonsense.

Is the risk justifiable? That’s for people to decide for themselves. The risk from Covid is small but by know very well known.

The risk from the vaccine should be substantially even smaller. But it is much less well known. So if you’re into black swans with fat tails and all that Taleb type stuff avoid it.

A sensible middle ground is just not to have it for a few years. The pandemic is basically over so there is no rush. In a few years SARS2 will have mutated and they will update the vaccine. That might be a good time to review one’s decision. It will be interesting to see if they retest the updated vaccine. I don’t think they do for flu but it might be more important to do so for a coronavirus vaccine.

330735 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to DRW, -3, #956 of 1197 🔗

It’s not just a “cold”. I didn’t personally know anyone who’d had the virus until recently but have now been told about 4 or 5 cases – all under 40 years of age and they are not well at all.

I’m becoming very sceptical of the IFR that some sceptics are claiming for the UK. We’re clearly nowhere near herd immunity which suggests that the number of people that have actually contracted the virus or have prior immunity is much lower than 60% necessary to slow down the infection rate.

330779 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Mayo, 1, #957 of 1197 🔗

It can be quite nasty certainly but it is just a cold for most people. This is fact not anecdote.

https://doi.org/10.1101/2020.08.09.20171249

330793 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ jonathan Palmer, replying to guy153, 2, #958 of 1197 🔗

Confirmed by Chris Whitty months ago in one of the press conferences.

330827 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to guy153, -2, #959 of 1197 🔗

A minority in a population of 67 million is still an awful lot of people.

330809 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Mayo, 1, #960 of 1197 🔗

Whitty admitted early on that it was low risk for most. And I’d much sooner opt for the historically tried and tested GBD approach of natural immunity with protection for the vulnerable.

330821 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to DRW, -1, #961 of 1197 🔗

We know it’s low risk for most.

Flu is low risk for most.
Measles is low risk for most.

330881 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mayo, 1, #962 of 1197 🔗

What do you think happens when there is effective mass vaccination for a respiratory pathogen? Do you think the other pathogens look at the recently vacated and unguarded accommodation in old people’s lungs and say “You know what, let’s give these humans a break. They deserve it, the poor things!” Or will they say: “Yay, free lodgings! “

330852 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Mayo, #963 of 1197 🔗

To play devil’s avocado, if the government’s estimate for R is 1.1-1.3 and we are indeed toward the low end of this scale, does this not suggest we are fairly near to herd immunity? Or is the argument that lockdowns are doing enough to hold this low currently, and that it’ll go up if we unlock?

330940 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Tee Ell, #964 of 1197 🔗

We are nowhere near herd immunity. Everywhere the UK has relaxed controls, cases, then admissions have risen. Most notably in the NW, NE and SW. More recently, the appearance of the more transmissible strain in the south with tighter biding to the receptor on cells showed cases then admissions rising even in the presence of restrictions.

330866 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mayo, 2, #965 of 1197 🔗

You do know the common cold kills lots of people every year? If your immune system is shot lots of infections become life threatening.

330730 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mayo, 3, #966 of 1197 🔗

You do know Gilles Barre is a v serious disease associated with the Pfizer vaccine. I think I worked out the incidence was dome thing like 30 times the average for UK.

330746 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to OKUK, -2, #967 of 1197 🔗

I know Gilles-Barre syndrome is a serious condition but I’m not aware it is associated with the Pfizer vaccine.

Could you link to a source which gives number of those who have developed G-B following vaccination.

330816 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to OKUK, #968 of 1197 🔗

Apologies I got confused with Bells Palsy – not so serious but still a neurological condition that has a terrible impact on people’s lives. There were 8 cases across the two Pfizer/Moderna trials – a huge over representation of the disease. I think people have expressed concern about Guillain-Barre cases following overrepresentation among flu vaccine recipients. Up till now mRNA vaccines have not been allowed because of concern about inflammatory response. Inflammation of the nervous system can clearly have all sort sorts of unpleasant side effects.

330840 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to OKUK, -1, #969 of 1197 🔗

Yes – definitely a possible association between G-B and Flu. I know someone who was trying to claim damages but I don’t think he got anywhere.

330681 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Mayo, 4, #970 of 1197 🔗

Far too early to say and as the government has bottled the second shot, they seem less than confident. Vaccination was always totally the wrong way to deal with this virus and it’s roll out will be a shitshow.

330695 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to nottingham69, 1, #971 of 1197 🔗

Isn’t the govt’s reason for delaying the 2nd shot so that more people can have the first and more get “some” protection?

330686 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Mayo, 1, #972 of 1197 🔗

”…. is not known yet…”
And that’s all right, is it? ”Not known”? So let’s just jab a few thousand and then we WILL know? That should do it. Then we’ll know how ”effective” it is.

330698 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Banjones, #973 of 1197 🔗

If it prevents people getting symptoms – then it’s effective.

330712 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Annie, replying to Mayo, 7, #974 of 1197 🔗

In that case, the bug itself is effective, since the huge majority of’infections’ are asymptomatic.

330755 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Annie, -1, #975 of 1197 🔗

Not the majority. A third – maybe a few more.

330720 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Mayo, #976 of 1197 🔗

Yes exactly and more importantly it stops severe symptoms and death. The BioNTech vaccine works incredibly well and this has been proven. So does Moderna (which is basically the same) and ChAdOx1 works very well too.

People might be concerned about safety and there is no pressing reason for anyone to take a vaccine if they don’t really need it but people shouldn’t deny that they work.

330762 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Portnadler, replying to Mayo, 1, #977 of 1197 🔗

A lot depends on the role of the virus. In my view, the virus produces symptoms that allow the body to process something .

That something could be vital: for example, getting rid of cells that are no longer the right cells in cold weather, part of the continual process of homeostasis. If the vaccine interrupts or mis-times that process, the person is still vulnerable and unhealthy, albeit not experiencing the unpleasantness of an illness.

My guess is that covid is the bug that gets through: it continues a process that was constantly interrupted by successive flu vaccinations. Only this time it’s a more extreme reaction with more “work” to do and in a body that no longer works as it should do. Just like flu, it carries away those who cannot tolerate the reaction.

It might be that the vaccine will give the elderly some physical peace and quiet from illness; it might even prevent the body reacting and going into the cytokine storm. But further down the line, that person must meet other challenges for which their body is no longer primed.

My view is that covid-19 occurs in a body left defenceless from previous vaccinations: the new vaccine is the medical profession’s attempt to kick the homeostatic can further down the road. At some point it will run out of tarmac.

330795 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Portnadler, #978 of 1197 🔗

A lot depends on the role of the virus. In my view, the virus produces symptoms that allow the body to process something.

Do you mean virus or vaccine? The vaccine uses mRNA to instruct the cell to produce the viral protein which the immune system can then “neutralise”.

330880 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Portnadler, replying to Mayo, #979 of 1197 🔗

Yes, I meant the virus. As I understand it, the vaccine will do something similar to the virus but in an attenuated way. The immune system will indeed have done its job (in dealing with the vaccine) but at the wrong time and to the wrong extent.

The problem with this is that the body hasn’t done all of its work, normally expressed as a panoply of symptoms. In the case of the flu vaccine, the body has been relieved of two or three weeks of fever, pain, sweating, phlegm and coughing. The same would be true of the covid vaccine.

By the way, in saying this I am agreeing with you that the vaccine does indeed “work” i.e. that it nullifies the symptoms of the disease. If it didn’t, we wouldn’t be using it. The problem for me is that I would want the symptoms to appear to allow the body to deal with underlying ill-health. The problem for an elderly or sick person is that the expression of those symptoms might overwhelm the body and lead to death.

My solution to that is to ensure that the person’s immune system and respiratory health is tip-top, as might have been the case in my view had they had their usual colds and flu. But that isn’t where we are right now.

I think treatment is a better strategy than vaccination at this late stage but I wouldn’t want to be the person that makes that decision. Time will tell what the outcomes will be for those who are vaccinated.

330773 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mayo, 3, #980 of 1197 🔗

You do know the side effects of the vaccine include Covid symptoms? Or maybe you didn’t.

330798 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to OKUK, -2, #981 of 1197 🔗

Covid-like effects are probably due to the immune system. Again you fail to provide the numbers and severity of effects.

330833 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mayo, #982 of 1197 🔗

I’m not a librarian and can’t find a way of linking easily on this device I’m using. . You claim to be interested in the subject – google it yourself. The NHS lists headache, muscle ache, fatigue and fever – all Covid symptoms – as common side effects of the Covid vaccine. The manufacturers have stated to US media the vaccine is “not a walk in the park” (censored in UK media). Again,,google it and will see the quote is genuine.

330836 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ iansn, replying to Mayo, 3, #983 of 1197 🔗

so do you Mayo, the vaccine hasnt even been tested on a significant number. 162 is not a significant number the vaccine has not been tested to a normal degree. The numbers tested have been insignficant in the usual vaccine testing system, the time spent insignificant and the bar to measure success is significantly low. Its might stop it, it might reduce symptoms, but based on the low numbers in the trials and the speed they run at, claiming anything based on them is definitiv when it could just be a natural variation in the control group vs the vaccinated group.
Take it and shut up is not the answer.
Ive have more vaccinations than most as I have lived all of the world, but I only get the ones I have to have not the ones the fat sister in the LSTM suggests I should have. I wont be rushing for this and Im 63 and have already had the lurgy.

330942 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to iansn, #984 of 1197 🔗

The trail results are robust for the design of trial. The chance of such a split in cases by random chance is infinitesimal. Duration of protection is of course more challenging. As is just taking one dose. But the effects noted are so much greater than other vaccine trials as to have moved the game on. Almost all vaccine companies are investigating mRNA vaccines. The numbers are typical for a vaccine program (Oxford’s a bit small), duration of up to six months plus the data from their phase 1 studies for safety and antibody levels.

330689 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to Mayo, 5, #985 of 1197 🔗

It doesn’t even stop symptoms. It is suggested that the vaccine will reduce symptoms, but Pfizer guarantee nothing and take no responsibility for any negative effects, as their Disclosure Notice makes abundantly clear:

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-achieve-first-authorization-world

330697 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to DJ Dod, 2, #986 of 1197 🔗

It doesn’t even stop symptoms.

Why do you say that?

Vaccinated 8 events

Control Group 162 events

That’s highly significant.

330754 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to Mayo, 4, #987 of 1197 🔗

I say that because Pfizer don’t even claim that the benefits outweigh the risks:

 Risks and uncertainties include, among other things, the uncertainties inherent in research and development, including the ability to meet anticipated clinical endpoints, commencement and/or completion dates for clinical trials, regulatory submission dates, regulatory approval dates and/or launch dates, as well as risks associated with clinical data (including the Phase 3 data), including the possibility of unfavorable new preclinical or clinical trial data and further analyses of existing preclinical or clinical trial data; the ability to produce comparable clinical or other results, including the rate of vaccine effectiveness and safety and tolerability profile observed to date, in additional analyses of the Phase 3 trial or in larger, more diverse populations upon commercialization; the risk that clinical trial data are subject to differing interpretations and assessments, including during the peer review/publication process, in the scientific community generally, and by regulatory authorities; whether and when data from the BNT162 mRNA vaccine program will be published in scientific journal publications and, if so, when and with what modifications; whether regulatory authorities will be satisfied with the design of and results from these and any future preclinical and clinical studies; whether and when any other biologics license and/or Emergency Use Authorization applications may be filed in any jurisdictions for BNT162b2 or any other potential vaccine candidates; whether and when any applications that may be pending or filed for BNT162b2 may be approved by regulatory authorities, which will depend on myriad factors, including making a determination as to whether the vaccine candidate’s benefits outweigh its known risks and determination of the vaccine candidate’s efficacy and, if approved, whether it will be commercially successful; whether and when the U.K. temporary use authorization may be superseded by the grant of a Marketing Authorisation; decisions by regulatory authorities impacting labeling, manufacturing processes, safety and/or other matters that could affect the availability or commercial potential of a vaccine, including development of products or therapies by other companies; disruptions in the relationships between us and our collaboration partners or third-party suppliers; risks related to the availability of raw materials to manufacture a vaccine; challenges related to our vaccine candidate’s ultra-low temperature formulation and attendant storage, distribution and administration requirements, including risks related to handling after delivery by Pfizer; the risk that we may not be able to successfully develop non-frozen formulations; the risk that we may not be able to create or scale up manufacturing capacity on a timely basis or have access to logistics or supply channels commensurate with global demand for any potential approved vaccine, which would negatively impact our ability to supply the estimated numbers of doses of our vaccine candidate within the projected time periods indicated; whether and when additional supply agreements will be reached; uncertainties regarding the ability to obtain recommendations from vaccine technical committees and other public health authorities and uncertainties regarding the commercial impact of any such recommendations; uncertainties regarding the impact of COVID-19 on Pfizer’s business, operations and financial results; and competitive developments.

Caveat Emptor!

330765 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to DJ Dod, #988 of 1197 🔗

I say that because Pfizer don’t even claim that the benefits outweigh the risks:

The risks will depend on the individual.

If I was 35, fit and healthy – I probably wouldn’t bother.

Pretty much every medical procedure or treatment carries some risk. That needs to be weighed up against the risk of not having the treatment.

330791 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to Mayo, 3, #989 of 1197 🔗

I don’t think anyone would disagree with that.

However, given that the vast majority of the population are not at risk from Covid it seems like a waste of resources to be aiming to vaccinate the entire population. And also a bit of a gamble, given the lack of knowledge regarding the long-term effects. Let’s not forget that we have been in a similar situation before:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/narcolepsy-fiasco-spurs-covid-vaccine-fears-in-sweden/ar-BB1bmSyF

330838 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mayo, 2, #990 of 1197 🔗

So if we are talking about prevention, why aren’t we talking so much about Ivermectin?

330717 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mayo, 6, #991 of 1197 🔗

Except one of the frequent side effects of the vaccination is…you get Covid symptoms. Of little consequence to a young volunteer perhaps but for a very elderly and frail person?

330767 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to OKUK, -3, #992 of 1197 🔗

You need to provide links which support your point.

What is “frequent”? 1%, … 10% …. 50%.

330782 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ jonathan Palmer, replying to Mayo, 1, #993 of 1197 🔗

You just admitted we don’t know if it stops transmission.How can it be an effective vaccine.You just demolished your own argument.

330829 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to jonathan Palmer, #994 of 1197 🔗

If it prevent symptoms in 95% and severe symptoms in the other 5% then it’s effective.

330846 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mayo, 1, #995 of 1197 🔗

The trial volunteers were all basically healthy – not very elderly, very frail or suffering from serious comorbidites! You really can’t draw this conclusions you draw. My belief is that many very old and frail people (the categories that produce the vast majority of Covid fatalities) as a result of the vaccine because it will put them under too much stress. The immune response is a very energetic process.

330944 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to OKUK, #996 of 1197 🔗

Pfizer and Modena both tested in the elderly. We’ve dosed a million people with one dose. All subjects will be followed. Reported severe reactions after the first dose were 2%. And up to 8% after the second. Your fears may be allayed as the elderly may not be getting the second dose now!

330856 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ jonathan Palmer, replying to Mayo, 1, #997 of 1197 🔗

But it’s not a vaccine then.Its a preventative and an experimental one at that.

330943 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to jonathan Palmer, #998 of 1197 🔗

Vaccines aren’t tested or approved based on reduction in transmission. Such reductions are only inferred at the population level after they have been rolled out. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. If the severity of infections are reduced to asthma prismatic or even sterile protection, then one can reasonably expect reduced transmission.

330694 ▶▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Mayo, 3, #999 of 1197 🔗

And it ”might” cause unknown and unpleasant side effects. But that’s a small price to pay, is it? Especially if someone else is paying it.

330761 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, replying to Banjones, 6, #1000 of 1197 🔗

I’m totally fine with other people paying the price, but I’m not OK with a 2-tiered society where those of us who opt out are excluded from regular life.

330855 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, 1, #1001 of 1197 🔗

I’m not OK with the vaccine full stop. If you sizeably reduce the prevalence of established respiratory viruses through vaccination, you create opportunities for novel pathogens. Many scientists think that the flu vaccination progamme has created the conditions for the rise of SARS. But the next novel respiratory pathogen given opportunities by vaccination might be far more deadly – something like the Spanish flu which attacked healthy young people and killed them in their millions.

330895 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Portnadler, replying to OKUK, #1002 of 1197 🔗

Yes, that’s broadly my view too. But I agree with Mayo that the vaccine “works” and on the face of it the rewards appear to counter-balance the risks (though I personally wouldn’t accept them).

The real downside is that whatever underlying ill-health a virus might discover (and deal with) is left unaddressed.

However, that is starting to challenge the very foundations of Western medical science so one treads warily perhaps!

330914 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Portnadler, 1, #1003 of 1197 🔗

How can you say it “works” when we have had no proper trial of the very categories of people who are most likely to die from Covid: the very elderly, the obese and people with serious comorbidites.

330952 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Portnadler, replying to OKUK, #1004 of 1197 🔗

Only inasmuch as it appears in the trials to prevent the occurrence of symptoms (in certain age groups). In that sense it “works”. In every other way, it is a catastrophe in my view.

330934 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, replying to OKUK, 1, #1005 of 1197 🔗

I’m with you. I’m not OK with the vaccine either and would be classified as an anti-vaxxer, though I prefer the term vaccine aware. I’m a member of Vaccine Choice Canada and, if I had it to do over, wouldn’t vaccinate my kids. And while I’m not OK with the vaccine either, I can only fight for my own right to refuse the vaccine and try to educate/influence those close to me. My own parents will be taking it I’m sure, but I have no influence over them — my dad is a retired GP and he and I have fought over many things medical. My husband won’t take it but I fear for my kids, especially my eldest who will be a teacher in 4 months. Call me a misanthrope, but if there are enough adverse events, the guinea pigs who lined up first might force a stop to this insane mass vaccination program.

330945 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to OKUK, #1006 of 1197 🔗

That hasn’t happened with the Hib vaccine, which reduces carriage and subsequent meningitis cases incidence to basically nil.

330776 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Banjones, -2, #1007 of 1197 🔗

I never said that. You haven’t quantified the risk(s) so it’s impossible to say.

Do you drive a car ? If so is it ok for the 200 people who get killed on the road every year to pay the price?

We know what the risk from Covid is for elderly and/or vulnerable individuals. Is the risk from the vaccine higher or lower?

330701 ▶▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Mayo, 2, #1008 of 1197 🔗

apparently Porton Down are working on establishing if the vaccine stops transmission. Due to report in 2 weeks.

330806 ▶▶▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to crimsonpirate, #1009 of 1197 🔗

checked the reference. JVT said this in the Downing St briefing on the 30th. Then probably phoned Toyah….

330756 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, replying to Mayo, 3, #1010 of 1197 🔗

If it’s merely a treatment and doesn’t necessarily stop transmission, I’d prefer HCQ or Ivermectin over an untested vaccine with unknown long-term effects.

During a recent interview with NBC’s Lestor Holt, Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla said he expects the vaccine rollout to be rapid once the countries give the go-ahead.

When asked whether someone can still transmit the virus after vaccination, the Pfizer Chairman & CEO said the company was not certain about this. “I think this is something that needs to be examined. We are not certain about that right now with what we know,” he told NBC News PR’s Lester Holt in an interview on Thursday night.

330757 ▶▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Mayo, 6, #1011 of 1197 🔗

It will probably reduce transmission. How do we know this? Because asymptomatic transmission is a lie. If it stops symptoms, it stops spread. Big pharma know this but they can’t say it because it torpedoes the scam.

330947 ▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to TheBluePill, #1012 of 1197 🔗

Big pharma can only say what is legally approved on the label. The label states that symptomatic infections are reduced by 95%. That’s all they can say. They’ve paid some of the largest fines in history for previously saying things that weren’t legally approved.

330704 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, 3, #1013 of 1197 🔗

It probably does stop or at least reduce transmission. It’s just that there’s no proof it does. But this is almost impossible to prove (for the same reason that “source control” for masks is).

It is highly effective at reducing severe disease and death. I think there were 8 severe cases in the control arm and 0 in the vaccine arm.

95% efficacious means that the relative risk of symptomatic Covid was 5%. In other words if you have the vax your risk of getting Covid is 5% what it is without it. This is a very strong result.

Vaccine enhanced disease (it probably wasn’t ADE) has been the big problem historically with coronavirus vaccines. We don’t know for sure it won’t happen but on the positive side every time it has been seen before it was noticeable even in small samples of animals. Having got this far without it is very encouraging news.

I don’t know about BioNTech but Chadox1 does not reduce the risk of asymptomatic infection at all. It is 62% efficacious for symptomatic Covid and also prevents it reduces severe disease and death pretty well. But because it doesn’t stop asymptomatic infection it might still allow a bit of transmission. But probably not much.

330949 ▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to guy153, #1014 of 1197 🔗

ADE in some previous preclinical coronaviruses. You may be interested to learn that there are 57 approved chicken vaccines against coronavirus.

330850 ▶▶▶ TJS123, replying to Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, #1015 of 1197 🔗

Hi Lisa, looking at the trial data, it’s actually about 2%, the difference is between 0.5% and 2.5%, so a very very low relative risk, however they are giving the impression that it will stop 95% of people catching covid 19. What they don’t explain is that out of all the trail participants, half of which would have had the placebo, there are still 98% of the placebo half and 99.5% of those given the vaccine, who didn’t get covid…how do they explain that? Unvaccinated and still only a 2.5% chance of catching it!

330875 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to BTLnewbie, #1016 of 1197 🔗

Delighted to have started such a long discussion, and I welcome Mayo’s involvement – otherwise we become prone to groupthink.
No-one has touched on my 2nd question. Pfizer’s ‘95% effectiveness’ is based on a small number of infections in the vaccinated group, but over a very limited period. Will they continue to monitor that group?
a) for Covid and
b) for side-effects?
Or is it ‘job done’ now that they have the emergency approval, despite the absurdly limited test period. There is surely a reason why vaccines take many years to be approved.

As for the Astra vaccine, is there any published data as to how they justify the ‘full-dose then full-dose’ when the ‘half-dose then full-dose’ was so much more effective? I listened to the Q&A on vaccines on R4 this morning and the ‘experts’ were unconvincing and confused.

This feels akin to the rushed swine flu Pandemrix vaccine – quite unneccessary (as swine flu was not a major threat, despite Ferguson’s models), but with serious side-effects in youngsters throughout Europe.

Thanks all for the input – will pick up responses in the morning.

330913 ▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to BTLnewbie, #1017 of 1197 🔗

My church held a virtual New Year party and they were discussing the vaccine, they were all very eager to have it which I understand as they are mostly elderly. They were baffled when I said I was undecided and intended to do a lot of research before I consented or otherwise. The poor souls who did consent have now had the length between injections changed, which to their credit is worrying some GPS. It’s ADE that scares me as I’ve read about attempts to vaccinate cats for FIP, a disease most cat lovers wish there was a safe vaccine for.
I’m under 65 with health conditions so I guess it will be a while before they offer me any vaccine.

330937 ▶▶ djaustin, replying to BTLnewbie, #1018 of 1197 🔗

Pfizer are still monitoring for infections in those in the trial. There was a debate about whether placebo subjects should continue on placebo, but this has now been changed so they have the option of the vaccine.

Expect annual or perhaps biannnual vaccinations. Duration is unproven of course, but immunity to the other four coronaviruses wanes after about two years

330624 George Mc, 17, #1019 of 1197 🔗

Distressing breaking news. We knew that covid kills infinitely large numbers. But did you know it could wreak physical damage to buildings via its human hosts?:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-55506681

It seems that a crowd had been driven mad by covid and had broken into a church to set up a party.

“…event organisers had smashed a window to put in an extractor fan unit and wired sound equipment into the church’s fuse box.”

“It was a professional set-up, they’d hired Portaloos, they had a bar area where you had to exchange tokens… obviously it’s a mess.”

A rather odd story surely. Vandals breaking into a church after having hired portaloos? But then covid does derange people and may have odd warping effects on the passage of time.

It’s just as well our constabulary were on hand to perform the requisite exorcism although they were clearly disturbed by poltergeist activity:

“Officers were threatened and had objects thrown at them as they dispersed hundreds of people and seized equipment, the force said.”

For full details, see the documentary 28 Days Later .

330626 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 12, #1020 of 1197 🔗

Survey about the BBC, commissioned by the BBC:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/send/u61149175

Go get ’em!

330637 ▶▶ Alan P, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #1021 of 1197 🔗

Done. Nothing rated above a1….

330638 ▶▶ wayno, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #1022 of 1197 🔗

Got to bloody register though

330641 ▶▶ common conservative, replying to Nick Rose, 9, #1023 of 1197 🔗

Done. Absolutely slaughtered them, especially in the ‘comment’ boxes.

Thank you for the link.

330705 ▶▶ Annie, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1024 of 1197 🔗

Waah, enjoyed that.

330736 ▶▶ Andrew K, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #1025 of 1197 🔗

Thanks for the link. on one of the comments this is what I said

The BBC is only concerned for woke, lefty, gay, transgender BLM, cyclist and extinction rebellion type of people . None of the above fits with a white, straight, car using person.

330814 ▶▶ iansn, replying to Nick Rose, #1026 of 1197 🔗

done!

330644 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 15, #1027 of 1197 🔗

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/12/28/60s-died-roads-last-year-no-underlying-conditions-coronavirus/ paywall but includes “Almost three times as many under 60s died in road crashes last year as those without health conditions killed by coronavirus, NHS data shows.” Lockdown all motorists NOW!

330660 ▶▶ AshesThanDust, replying to arfurmo, 9, #1028 of 1197 🔗

I’ve been replying to lockdown zealot friends’ hysteria with “Well, I do hope you don’t ever get in a car, then; you could so easily kill or injure people” from the beginning. Amazing, the defensive justifications that follow.

330645 cloud6, replying to cloud6, 26, #1029 of 1197 🔗

From the Telegraph newspaper….
Mutant Covid strain tripled transmission of the virus even during November lockdown, figures show.
Proof that lockdowns are not working. The Government have dug themselves such a big hole they can’t get out of and it’s getting deeper. So the Madness and lunacy will go on until ??????

330647 ▶▶ DRW, replying to cloud6, 5, #1030 of 1197 🔗

The people actually reject it? If only…

330651 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to cloud6, 2, #1031 of 1197 🔗

In perpetuity

330654 ▶▶ RickH, replying to cloud6, 9, #1032 of 1197 🔗

Pure bollocks. There was no surge in transmission.

330648 Tom Blackburn, 1, #1033 of 1197 🔗
330650 John P, 1, #1034 of 1197 🔗

Tiers – Ken Dodd :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys1ShRxuAnY

(Boris’ only consolation … )

330655 danny, replying to danny, 13, #1035 of 1197 🔗

I see the government have caved to pressure again and closed all primaries in london, denying education to thousands of young children and locking many in isolation.
Surely by the way law is now dictated by the loudest voices, we can end lockdown tomorrow

330658 ▶▶ danny, replying to danny, 20, #1036 of 1197 🔗

(Sorry, cut off) end lockdown tomorrow by us all marching outside Downing Street tonight. Oh wait, no. We would be arrested for breach of the peace.
SPeaking as a teacher, I a mask disgusted at my profession, and how school are closed without a whisper.
Where are the pickets? The protests? Shameful.

330665 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to danny, 19, #1037 of 1197 🔗

Thatcher would be turning in her grave. How are we being held hostage by these unions and their tired old ‘safety’ rhetoric? All the old grudges are coming out again, the cynical opportunism makes me physically sick. This country has gone to shit, we have a Conservative government caving into unions, destroying personal liberty and engorging the state. When will this fucking nightmare end?

330679 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to danny, 4, #1038 of 1197 🔗

“As empty vessels make the loudest sound , so they that have the least wit are the greatest blabbers….”

330671 Liam, replying to Liam, 18, #1039 of 1197 🔗

Just watching the football, a player got a bang on the head and the physios came on to have a look at him.

Both masked, you can literally see the water vapour coming straight through, clouds of it in the cold air. Masks are completely worthless, you can literally see it.

330682 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to Liam, 15, #1040 of 1197 🔗

Of course! I am amazed that people actually say ”they make my glasses steam up….”
Duhh! How dim can people be?

330690 ▶▶▶ Annie, replying to Banjones, 10, #1041 of 1197 🔗

How dim?
Infinitely.

330702 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Annie, 7, #1042 of 1197 🔗

And SO MANY of them! I honestly never realised how many

330711 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Liam, 4, #1043 of 1197 🔗

Just to put the dampeners on it, so to speak (and I’m viciously anti-mask), but what we have here is water vapour, effectively a gas, passing through the mask and immediately condensing in the cold air. Gases will pass through virtually any filter. We can’t really use this as an example of where masks don’t work.

330723 ▶▶▶ Les Tricoteuses, replying to Tenchy, 8, #1044 of 1197 🔗

No, water vapour is made up of very small droplets each of which can contain any virus.

330678 jhfreedom, replying to jhfreedom, 15, #1045 of 1197 🔗

The extension of the vaccine ‘gap’ is interesting – does it mean we are closer to total pandemic and mass infection? Surely a sign of government desperation. It is unethical and Pfizer themselves warned it might not work. I think I would welcome it though. Total chaos and NHS collapse and then perhaps the daylight will shine through and we can rebuild…

330684 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to jhfreedom, 10, #1046 of 1197 🔗

Your comment is one of the more encouraging ones of the day. I think the elite have evil plans but their cleverness is overrated.

330688 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Londo Mollari, 7, #1047 of 1197 🔗

The elite are evil, but I’m unconvinced that they can plan anything. They can’t even work out which way up to hold toilet paper.

330868 ▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Nick Rose, #1048 of 1197 🔗

I totally agree. Ideological. Arrogant. Obnoxious.

I’ve worked in a corporate. Those at the top are clueless!

330863 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Londo Mollari, #1049 of 1197 🔗

The elite are very ideological. And arrogant. Whilst they probably have the worst planned for this year, they’ve got to try not to make a complete mess up…

I saw reports that children’s wards in London were full. I think that should be easily verified.

Harder to verify the Covid wards (it’s just regular admittance – mainly – with +ve PCR vs -ve PCR), but I’m sure doable.

Reports I’ve got are operational

1. Wards are “closed” when someone displays symptoms or tests positive ( either of which might be Covid)
2. Staff of sick
3. Unmanageable in hospital because of closed wards (see 1)
4. Few genuine Covid cases
5. Getting better at dealing wi to Covid cases

So it does all feel worse, but I reckon we can unravel this a bit more.

Here’s ideas….

Start befriending good/friendly small-scale (not famous or obnoxious) scientists / medics on Twitter.

Find friends that are medics or work in hospitals

Train to be an auxiliary nurse

Get a job in a hospital, even if it’s in a costa coffee…

X x

330953 ▶▶▶▶ DomW, replying to Country Mumkin, #1050 of 1197 🔗

I’ve become friendly with a hospital pharmacist who tells me the bulletins from on high describing the situation to staff bears little resemblance to the reality of the patients they are treating.

Also, that Remdesivir is being scrapped at the hospital once current stocks are used up because it hasn’t prevented a single death

330693 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to jhfreedom, 2, #1051 of 1197 🔗

Can you explain a bit more about what you mean by that jh? Probably naively, I thought that the Govt had realised that their piss-poor planning meant that they were incapable of simulataneously providing the second jab alongside continuously rolling out the first (far too complicated for them) so they were just aiming for the highest possible number of people jabbed, rather than worrying about efficacy…

What is total pandemic? Is that different to endemic? Sorry for my ignorance!

330707 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Charlie Blue, 11, #1052 of 1197 🔗

Probably the burgundy (while I can afford it) talking. The extension of the vaccine interval allows for more first jabs at the expense of doing the second jab in the timeframe the manufacturer (Pfizer) recommended. One doctor I spoke to this afternoon said it was unethical and raised issues of consent. Patients agree to vaccines on the basis that they are being applied per the recommended instructions. Hence this is desperation by the government. The infection is out of control and I suspect lockdowns make no difference now, we are heading towards a situation where everyone has it. The short-cutting of the vaccine dose gap, along with Tier 4 extension almost across England is surely a sign that they realise this. And in turn, it gives me hope. If everyone ends up with it then the war is over and the government has lost. It might be the exit strategy we are all looking for, albeit at the cost of some excess deaths among the elderly and sick and parts of the NHS overstretched.

330716 ▶▶▶▶ Alice, replying to jhfreedom, 5, #1053 of 1197 🔗

When everyone has it, does it mean herd immunity?

330810 ▶▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Alice, #1054 of 1197 🔗

Yes. Sweden never got to that point, would have incurred too much death. Now we are heading that way not out of choice.

330732 ▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to jhfreedom, 6, #1055 of 1197 🔗

Thanks! Yes, I see what you mean. I think both our theories work alongside one another – no real benefit to be had from completing the full vaccination programme, but in the mean time they can crow about meaningless numbers of jabees and pretend they are pulling off a great achievement.

Definitley unethical. I was chatting to my 86yo neighbour earlier. She has received her summons and will be going for the first jab next week. She wasn’t too happy that she would wait longer for the second and can’t understandy why, but had concluded that something was better than nothing.

330800 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Charlie Blue, 4, #1056 of 1197 🔗

I think the real worry over the “mUtAnT” is that it will naturally immunise everyone before a vaccine.

330728 ▶▶ this is my username, replying to jhfreedom, #1057 of 1197 🔗

Not if this is what they are planning to build: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTWZO_DBMYo

330685 Tyneside Tigress 2021, replying to Tyneside Tigress 2021, 23, #1058 of 1197 🔗

This man knows a thing or two about what has been going on behind the scenes on NERVTAG/SAGE. Professor Dingwall – a rare voice of reason:

Trying to lock down until Covid is eradicated would be dangerous folly (telegraph.co.uk)

‘Politicians, not scientists, now need to rule on how and when a vaccinated nation can live normally with the virus’

He points out some of the statistics ‘Well before the end of Phase 1 – sometime hopefully in late March or April – vaccinated people will have little more risk of serious illness or death than a healthy 16 to 60-year-old. Since the beginning of the pandemic, there have been fewer than 400 deaths in that group’.

330699 ▶▶ theanalyst, replying to Tyneside Tigress 2021, 7, #1059 of 1197 🔗

A very good read. Nice post.

330709 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress 2021, replying to theanalyst, 7, #1060 of 1197 🔗

When he is interviewed on TV he always comes across as a thoughtful and decent man, just saying it as it is – unlike some of his fellow NERVTAG/SAGE members who so clearly have an agenda (political and financial).

330719 ▶▶▶▶ dpj, replying to Tyneside Tigress 2021, 7, #1061 of 1197 🔗

There was an investigation recently which found 12 out of 20 regulars at SAGE meetings had ties with big pharma. I’m assuming he was one of the 8 others?

330703 ▶▶ John001, replying to Tyneside Tigress 2021, 7, #1062 of 1197 🔗

There’d probably be <20 deaths in that group if they’d taken vitamin D and eaten healthily. A lot of Brits seem to have undiagnosed pre-diabetes or high blood pressure.

The low Japanese death toll amazes me …. only 3,500 have died in a country of 126 million and 25% of the population are pensioners.

330710 ▶▶▶ liztr835, replying to John001, 2, #1063 of 1197 🔗

I assume with Japan, it is due to their very low levels of obesity and healthier diet.

330805 ▶▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to liztr835, 3, #1064 of 1197 🔗

Yes, a big factor I suspect. Also – they generally take good care of their older generation. Watch any travel programme, & when people want advice on culture, or skills (eg. martial arts) the older generation are generally taken care of well, & appreciated as masters with much wisdom to impart. Contrast this over here with how our Gov & NHS generally treat people over a certain age, certainly not the same ethos. Turn on the TV the only real attention for the over 55’s or 60s is adverts for funerals & telling you to release money from your house..

330819 ▶▶▶▶ rockoman, replying to liztr835, 2, #1065 of 1197 🔗

Or, maybe they just didn’t push tens of thousands of hospital patients into care homes – with no notice.

330738 ▶▶▶ Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, replying to John001, 16, #1066 of 1197 🔗

Perhaps they are being more judicious about what they put on death certificates. This is merely speculation on my part, but every country’s numbers would be lower (perhaps not that low relative to the population) if they weren’t labeling deaths in hospice with Covid, auto accidents, drug overdoses, etc. That would be yet another way our governments could “end” the pandemic — slow down testing, reduce the cycle threshold on the PCR test to 25, and stop counting deaths with Covid as deaths from Covid.

330869 ▶▶▶ Andrew K, replying to John001, 2, #1067 of 1197 🔗

Most were probably exposed to SAR V1 in 2003

330708 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Tyneside Tigress 2021, 7, #1068 of 1197 🔗

Perhaps some on Sage have have woken up to the fact that the pig dictator has rigged this so it is they who are going to take the rap

330859 ▶▶▶ theanalyst, replying to Cecil B, 1, #1069 of 1197 🔗

Yes – My MP sent me a web link to Sage evidence and said that was why they were doing what they were doing. He was basically saying blame Sage.

330790 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Tyneside Tigress 2021, #1070 of 1197 🔗

That he is on NERVTAG gives me some hope. I just hope his views can be listened to.

330867 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to Tyneside Tigress 2021, 5, #1071 of 1197 🔗

‘A vaccinated nation.’ Hmmm…Fuck off.

No, I will not get a shot in the arm just to save political face for Bojo and Starmer.

330700 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 6, #1072 of 1197 🔗

The Rapists Dads lad was given 8 years 8 months in the slammer

On his arrival in prison he would have been informed of his ERD (earliest release date)

He served 2 years 3 months

His fathers non rapist prisoners have no such rights

Even when they are on their best behaviour they get to the end of their sentence and get banged up again and again for no reason

330760 ▶▶ Annie, replying to Cecil B, 4, #1073 of 1197 🔗

True. That’s why I am on my very worst behaviour in the Dungford slammer.I’ve nothing to lose.

330788 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Cecil B, 2, #1074 of 1197 🔗

Prisoners get visiting rights, or used to

In Sweden they get to shag their visitors

330724 this is my username, replying to this is my username, 15, #1075 of 1197 🔗

Interesting – seems I can’t get my comments posted on the DM. Same issue as before – the commenters are suddenly pro lockdown/closing borders. Previously they would have supported people who had broken lockdown or travelled for a walk, as I’ve seen in there just now. But no, now the commenters are suggesting locking up anyone who doesn’t obey – I suspect 77th brigade involvement. Why, for example, did the DM moderate comments on an article about people having New Years parties? I posted a few comments – none of them appeared. Just now, I posted on an article without moderated comments – still nothing appearing. The DM has an agenda!

330743 ▶▶ this is my username, replying to this is my username, 18, #1076 of 1197 🔗

Oh, a couple of them got through – that’s good!

“People are simply not going to comply with the government’s lies any more. We all know by now that we’ve been lied to for months and that the only way out is to stop complying – stop wearing your bacteria-ridden masks. Lockdowns DON’T WORK! They are destroying the country.”

330784 ▶▶ Julian, replying to this is my username, 2, #1077 of 1197 🔗

Maybe it depends on who is on moderation duty

330729 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 8, #1078 of 1197 🔗

Weather looking pretty good for tomorrow. Cold and bright where I’m looking at.

330758 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1079 of 1197 🔗

Have fun.

330750 BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 29, #1080 of 1197 🔗

German Scientist on their equivalent of SAGE resigns his position. He cites the Dorsten Review paper sent to Eurosurveillance. He notes that Science is being adversely influenced by 3rd party funders and political motives.

From the University of Mainz where I also believe Prof Bhakdi works.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1345092221327040512.html

330858 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 3, #1081 of 1197 🔗

Do you have a BBC News link for that? 😉

330889 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Ovis, 3, #1082 of 1197 🔗

Contact Marianna Spring. She’s normally on the ball and sets me right when I stray into such dark waters

330896 ▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #1083 of 1197 🔗

Oh, but she’s gorgeous. I just don’t dare. I’m sure I’d just make myself look stupid even in an email. I’m sweating all over just thinking about her, it, not that I mean she’s an it. Oh no, I’m cracking up.

330924 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #1084 of 1197 🔗

It’s quite simple. There are, Marianna tells us, “legitimate concerns” and “conspiracy theories”. What could be easier to understand? One or the other – nothing in between. Of course you can’t expect her to know which is which. She has to talk to her boss Mike Wendling (ex Far Left Village Voice) and he has to have a chat with his pal at the Guardian. Then they can decide what is a conspiracy theory is and what isn’t.

330751 Nick Rose, 10, #1085 of 1197 🔗

Right, let’s make the most of the holiday. Going incognito, see you all Sunday (and maybe some of you tomorrow). 3…2…1…

330753 theanalyst, 11, #1086 of 1197 🔗

Looking at the increases in regional positivity of tests over the last couple of weeks or so in the UK, especially in the SE and London, I’ve three thoughts potentially worthy of consideration.

  • Experienced backstreet lab staff might be taking Xmas holidays to count their financial bonuses and relax, so their juniors are making mistakes and this is leading to an increase in so called cases. The effect of this is potentially huge on 27th December, when Pillar 2 positivity went through the roof.
  • Backstreet labs might also not have planned for the increased demand in testing in days leading up to Xmas. This could mean more pressures on junior staff, who happily work all the hours god sends to earn triple or double overtime. Standards can go out of the window as management are away on holiday. Its all about turnaround.
  • There may be (I’m no expert) many previously undiscovered relatives of SAR-Cov-2 (if it even exists) which cause minor sniffles and colds etc which are being detected by the notorious PCR test. The spikes in the SE do look a lot like the spikes when students returned – ‘Fresher flu’. Tens of Thousands of Students had positive PRC tests in Sept/Oct but none died, as far as I am aware. Students then appeared to gain immunity quite rapidly, and the Lateral flow antigen tests cleared them all to go home. Fresher flu is very real and was something which sat between a cold and the flu – not worthy of prior research….hence my suspicions about previously undiscovered relatives.

Just my private thoughts.

330759 wendy, replying to wendy, 21, #1087 of 1197 🔗

Made the mistake of look at the BBC. I really despise their article reporting on a London hospital not being able to provide critical care. Even if it were true that a London hospital were struggling why wouldn’t other hospitals help out, why would a country like ours throwing money around at COVID not throw money at this? How could a government allow this to happen? I am sure it is propaganda.

But what I hate most about a headline like this is that it will put people off from seeking care if they need it. They will not wish to be a burden on the NHS or they will fear infection in a COVID crowded hospital, they will feel there is no room for their needs. It makes my blood boil.

I worked for the NHS between 1979 and 2016 and I finished because protecting the patients I saw from the crush of the NHS began to take too much out of me personally. I know that many of my former colleagues, friends and family feel the same about protecting the patient from the huge impersonal sausage machine that the NHS can be. NHS employees are supposed to serve the public not blame them. For me the NHS has come out of this very poorly. It needs serious reform.

330766 ▶▶ Annie, replying to wendy, 8, #1088 of 1197 🔗

It needs blowing up and maybe, but by no means certainly, rebuilding.

330792 ▶▶ Dorian_Hawkmoon, replying to wendy, 8, #1089 of 1197 🔗

Management has become systemically insane through commissioner-provider perverse incentives.

330812 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Dorian_Hawkmoon, 3, #1090 of 1197 🔗

Targets and through put in preference to patient need are more important and that is wrong and damaging.

330796 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to wendy, 3, #1091 of 1197 🔗

Clare Gerada of Royal College of General Practitioners tweeted this: Would be good if barriers to using staff across different hospitals could be removed.Can take weeks to employ doctors across different geographical areas.Cant emergency legislation be introduced across #nhs ? ⁦ That would help.

330763 Cheshirecatslave, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 3, #1092 of 1197 🔗

I had tea with a friend who works in a care home today. She was telling me about their staffing problems. She said the rules had changed and anyone with no symptoms has to isolate when previously they were offered a second test. I wonder if it’s the same for nurses and other medical staff?
She also said one of her friends had covid in March and a positive antibody test but now has tested positive again! She thinks it must be a false positive.

330777 ▶▶ Dorian_Hawkmoon, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 12, #1093 of 1197 🔗

I’m afraid they believe you can keep getting it forever unless you get a jab which makes your immune system stop you getting it whereas virus exposure and Ab response wouldn’t have stopped you getting it again cos Ab titres decline over time. This is in complete defiance of Immunology 101. Go figure. They are deranged.

330764 Annie, 14, #1094 of 1197 🔗

‘Stopping humans from being human will not stop the virus from being a virus!’

https://www.aier.org/article/the-year-of-disguises/

330768 Julian, replying to Julian, 12, #1095 of 1197 🔗

Something that has not really been covered enough IMO is reproduction

Established couples may have been attempting to reproduce more as there’s been little else to do

But I would think that the number of new couples formed since March must be pretty low compared to the average.

With no prospect of normal socialising being legal any time soon, it’s another way in which the current madness is unsustainable

330770 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Julian, 6, #1096 of 1197 🔗

Planning a family now really is the height of insanity.

330780 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Richard O, 8, #1097 of 1197 🔗

I can see why you say that, on the other hand I feel it’s a sacred duty, especially for anyone who will be a decent, sceptic parent and who has the emotional and economic resources to do a good job

330787 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Julian, 2, #1098 of 1197 🔗

You are right, I am looking at it from my narrow perspective (having never had any intention to have kids). What could be more human than raising a child well? Without this, we are finished once and for all.

330794 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Julian, 6, #1099 of 1197 🔗

Personally, bringing children into this world would just be cruel.

330823 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to DRW, 6, #1100 of 1197 🔗

Again I can understand this and my (adult) kids are suffering right now because of this madness

But they are alive, and awake, and have hopefully had decent parents

And hopefully you would make a good parent too

330808 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Julian, 6, #1101 of 1197 🔗

My kids certainly don’t thank me for making them the odd ones out for having their own minds. They are very much in the minority and aren’t liked for it. They have to be as silent as I have to be, and that is harder when you are younger and still at school. They can’t stand out, it just makes things too difficult for them.

330824 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to CGL, 11, #1102 of 1197 🔗

It’s very hard for all of us and harder for the young probably

But better to be awake than asleep in life

330920 ▶▶▶▶▶ wayno, replying to CGL, 2, #1103 of 1197 🔗

My 7 year old clearly has picked up on me and mum. She blurted out yesterday that masks are stupid and don’t do anything. We are also lucky that here school has a sceptic head.

330932 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, replying to wayno, 3, #1104 of 1197 🔗

Priceless! Good for your daughter. My 13-year-old nephew was here over new year’s and has become quite the sceptic. I gave him tons of reinforcement for his critical thinking.

330771 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Julian, 1, #1105 of 1197 🔗

Two teenage births in my extended family – one on my side and the other on my wife’s side.

330811 ▶▶ Jo Starlin, replying to Julian, 2, #1106 of 1197 🔗

I’ve been saying this for months. The birth rate will collapse within six weeks.

330769 Londo Mollari, replying to Londo Mollari, 6, #1107 of 1197 🔗

Hundreds of Israelis reportedly infected with Covid-19 after receiving the Pfizer jab. https://www.rt.com/news/511332-israel-vaccination-coronavirus-pfizer/

330803 ▶▶ Janette, replying to Londo Mollari, 1, #1108 of 1197 🔗

Very interesting!

330807 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Janette, -1, #1109 of 1197 🔗

Not really. Israel have vaccinated huge number of the population very quickly. There is a good chance that a few hundred of them will have been infected either just before or just after vaccination. The vaccine takes 8-10 days to provide immunity.

330815 ▶▶▶▶ rockoman, replying to Mayo, 2, #1110 of 1197 🔗

Does it provide immunity?

330837 ▶▶▶▶▶ Suey, replying to rockoman, 5, #1111 of 1197 🔗

I think the correct answer to that is “Lol”.

330817 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Mayo, 2, #1112 of 1197 🔗

It says nothing about when these people got infected, could have been after the 8 to 10 days?

However, you go ahead there and read it whatever way you wish.

330828 ▶▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Mayo, #1113 of 1197 🔗

And have you been ”done” yet?

330892 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Banjones, #1114 of 1197 🔗

Ain’t no one gonna make Mayo have the jab!

330871 ▶▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Mayo, 1, #1115 of 1197 🔗

If that is the case, why the second jab?

330903 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mayo, #1116 of 1197 🔗

I’d say there’s a very good chance of them catching Covid after they’ve had the vaccine, especially if elderly. It’s the energetics that are important. You’re asking the body to go into threat mode after the vaccine, which requires a lot of energy, but my hunch would be that could lower your ability to deal with the real pathogen if you encounter it in those first few hours . I hold the view, not always popular here, that the virus is pretty much on the air in all communal indoor spaces like supermarkets, restaurants,pubs and churches.

330818 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Londo Mollari, 3, #1117 of 1197 🔗

“Since vaccinations kicked off on December 20, at least four people in Israel died shortly after getting the jab, Kan public broadcaster reported. However, the Health Ministry said that three fatalities were unrelated to the vaccine, with the fourth case of an 88-year-old man with preexisting conditions currently being investigated.”

This will be written quite a lot in the coming months I think.

330835 ▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #1118 of 1197 🔗

What would be the normally expected rate of death amongst this population, if none had been vaccinated?

330842 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Tee Ell, 2, #1119 of 1197 🔗

4 people, nothing to see here

330857 ▶▶▶ Andrew K, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #1120 of 1197 🔗

Granny Killers

330778 iansn, 6, #1121 of 1197 🔗

As NN mentioned more bad news from Thailand Day 3: 67 deaths, 642 injuries yes thats not the covid stats thats the road deaths for one day. Matt Hancock would ban driving!

330781 Les Tricoteuses, replying to Les Tricoteuses, 5, #1122 of 1197 🔗

Not being very data savvy can someone please explain what I’m looking at here

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/notifiable-diseases-weekly-reports-for-2020

I downloaded the latest week(52) and in table 2 it lists covid on page 14 of the pdf.
Is covid a notifiable disease? And how come the figure for the whole of England is 85!! Am I missing something here?

330813 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Les Tricoteuses, 4, #1123 of 1197 🔗

PANDAArticles-The-PHE-data-that-goes-against-the-narrative.pdf (pandata.org)

Its explained very well in a concise way here.

Basically, you’d expect it to be down because normal functioning left the NHS in 2020, however is another huge flag for PCR driven pseudo epidemic this winter

330825 ▶▶▶ Les Tricoteuses, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 4, #1124 of 1197 🔗

Ok, so if I understand correctly there were only 85 new cases of covid with symptoms last week and all the others are false positives and ‘asymptomatic’
Having trouble processing this.

330847 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Les Tricoteuses, 4, #1125 of 1197 🔗

No – you need to give plenty of room for the complete fallout from the normal way the NHS would address NOIDs. So it’s no doubt a higher figure than the 85. But you can get some insight from the trend of NOIDs registered. The trend matched the peak of PCR cases in March but now PCR has gone stratospheric, NOIDs rose and peaked.

Its small samples but raises important questions.

The NOIDs rise and fall this Winter reflects the ZOE app as well. So these trackers of Covid are telling us a different story than the official government narrative.

330854 ▶▶▶▶▶ Les Tricoteuses, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 3, #1126 of 1197 🔗

Yes, reread article. I see what you mean but it’s pretty damning of PCR reliability.

330861 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Les Tricoteuses, 6, #1127 of 1197 🔗

PCR is so destructive that it should lead to jail for those that know better but have let this continue. that’s my feeling.

Mike Yeadon tweeting on the impact of false positives tonight
https://twitter.com/MichaelYeadon3/status/1345035786731851776

330873 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Les Tricoteuses, 2, #1128 of 1197 🔗

It’s more damning of the government!

330831 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #1129 of 1197 🔗

Snap!

330849 ▶▶▶▶ Les Tricoteuses, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1130 of 1197 🔗

Thanks to you and BeBop for the link

330830 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Les Tricoteuses, 6, #1131 of 1197 🔗

Yes it’s notifiable.
I asked that question last week. It doesn’t seem to make sense that the PCR positives aren’t notifiable – though it’s probably as well they aren’t!

Here’s what a couple of helpful people sent me:
The PHE data that goes against the narrative – Hunting down symptomatic COVID-19 https://www.pandata.org/papers/

Bottom line, if there are no symptoms, there’s no disease, therefore it doesn’t need to be notified.

330822 James Gittings, replying to James Gittings, 8, #1132 of 1197 🔗

Guys, let’s not sit back and hope for the best. Let’s make the best happen. We must be pragmatic though.
Here is a template for writing to your MP about replacing PCR tests with antigen. I hope this will mean restrictions will ease as positives won’t be overinflated.
I hope you had a nice Christmas. I am writing to adamantly state that the PCR test is not an adequate method in dealing with COVID-19. The inventor of the PCR test, the late Nobel Prize winner for chemistry Dr. Kary Mullis admitted that the test is not designed to diagnose an active virus, but create copies of genetic material [1] .
A September 2020 study published by the Infectious Diseases Society of America revealed when COVID-19 positive samples from PCR tests with threshold cycles greater than 25 as the virus isn’t detected in culture based tests (used as a reference method for detecting infectiousness). When the cycle threshold was 35, less than 3% of positive cases were positive in a culture based test [2] . For this reason, a Portuguese Appeals Court in November 2020 ruled that quarantines based on PCR tests were unlawful. They ruled that “when a threshold of 35 cycles or higher is used (as is the rule in Europe and the US)…the probability the result is a false positive is 97% [3] . Tesla CEO Elon Musk also had four PCR tests for COVID-19. Two came back positive, the other two negative.
Given these facts, it’s possible someone who underwent a PCR test is wrongly in quarantine and thus losing business hours and social contact. It’s also possible that someone who also received a PCR test is out in the open due to a negative result when they are actually infectious and should be in quarantine.
One possible test the government could use to replace the PCR test is antigen testing. One study published in October 2020 more positive COVID-19 cases from antigen tests were confirmed by culture tests than positive cases from PCR tests. The positive predictive value for antigen tests was 90%, for PCR tests that figure was just 73%. [4] Antigen tests also deliver results more efficiently than PCR tests.
It would be wonderful if you would propose to the government, a parliamentary vote on phasing out PCR tests and replacing them with antigen tests. Besides more accurate results, there will be more respect towards the government from the public, as they will become convinced that any government decision in response to antigen based positive cases are more logical.
Yours sincerely,

[1] Kary Mullis explains why his PCR test is not a diagnostic test
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXm9kAhNj-4
[2] Correlation Between 3790 Quantitative Polymerase Chain Reaction–Positives Samples and Positive Cell Cultures, Including 1941 Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 Isolates
https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa1491/5912603
[3] English translation of the ruling here. https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=pt&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dgsi.pt%2Fjtrl.nsf%2F33182fc732316039802565fa00497eec%2F79d6ba338dcbe5e28025861f003e7b30
[4] Antigen-based testing but not real-time PCR correlates with SARS-CoV-2 virus culture
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.02.20205708v1

330860 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to James Gittings, #1133 of 1197 🔗

This paper outlining the design of the RT-PCR test protocol in January, authored by Prof. Dorsten and said to used for the design of 70% of RT-PCR tests used for SARS-CoV-2, has been challenged by host of independent scientists so that it be considered for retraction, see here . A quick glance at the credentials of those who have signed this makes it clear to anyone that this issue is not the concern of some conspiracy group or fanatics. It exemplifies the seriousness of this issue as it will have huge ramifications if it is successful.

Second, the PCR issue was raised by a court in Portugal recently in reaction to its validity in proving the requirement to quarantine four German tourists. The judges found it unreliable for such a purpose, see here . The translated judgement itself can also be seen here . There are similar court cases in Germany, Italy, Switzerland and Netherlands currently ongoing.

PCR Testing Sensitivity

Your Coronavirus Test Is Positive. Maybe It Shouldn’t Be. – The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Coronavirus cases are mounting but deaths remain stable. Why? | The Spectator

COVID cases in England aren’t rising: here’s why – The Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine (cebm.net)

330870 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to James Gittings, 2, #1134 of 1197 🔗

Good letter. Thanks for sharing.

330826 fjsp, 3, #1135 of 1197 🔗

Been thinking for a while that the song for the year must be Band on the Run by Wings
Consider the first few stanzas
Stuck inside these four walls
Sent inside forever
Never seeing no one
Nice again like you, mama
You, mama
You
If I ever get out of here
Thought of giving it all away
To a registered charity
All I need is a pint a day
If I ever get outta here
(If we ever get outta here)

330832 Edward, replying to Edward, 34, #1136 of 1197 🔗

I’ve just been tidying my emails. Lots of Christmas and New Year messages from arts and entertainment organisations, all looking forward to things getting better in 2021. When are they going to wake up and realise that things won’t get better unless they start fighting for it – and possibly not even then?

330843 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Edward, 23, #1137 of 1197 🔗

I’ve lost patience with people saying “let’s hope for better in 2021”

I ask them why they think things will be better and what they are doing to make it so

330848 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Julian, 4, #1138 of 1197 🔗

Excellent idea, I’ll do the same – most of them have a feedback option on their website even if the emails are sent from an address which doesn’t take replies.

330925 ▶▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Edward, 1, #1139 of 1197 🔗

Good idea. Writing to MPs is all well and good, but I suspect real pushback has got to come from business, & particularly the arts, esp. theatres. “If not now, when?” [JFK]

330926 ▶▶▶▶▶ jonathan Palmer, replying to Stringfellow Hawke, 2, #1140 of 1197 🔗

This has been the strangest thing in all of this.The acquiesce of so many businesses and people in their own demise.

330877 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Edward, 10, #1141 of 1197 🔗

If 2021 follows the same trajectory as 2020, none of these arts or entertainment organisations will exist by 2022.

330834 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 4, #1142 of 1197 🔗

We are not in London although I’m sure primary schools outside of London will not open. That’ll be announced tomorrow or the day after I would think.

How long do you think they’ll stay shut for?

330851 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Country Mumkin, 3, #1143 of 1197 🔗

April at least

330874 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 3, #1144 of 1197 🔗

It’s so depressing!

330876 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Country Mumkin, 3, #1145 of 1197 🔗

You could say that about everything.

330891 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #1146 of 1197 🔗

At that point, schools would open with great fanfare, but let’s not pretend that any learning would happen at the fag end of the academic year, after a whole term away. If they go back as late as April (which is very likely), the return will be a purely cosmetic exercise.

330897 ▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Ovis, 3, #1147 of 1197 🔗

I think April is optimistic too… school shutdown is where it hits me hard. Much much more than anything else.

330916 ▶▶▶▶▶ Adamb, replying to Country Mumkin, 3, #1148 of 1197 🔗

Same here. I suppose we are lucky that my wife is a full time mum, but now faced with the prospect of a rather wild 4 year old and a 6 year old to “teach”, and a 9 month old to take care of, with everything closed and no friends or family to be seen, while I’m at the office every day, I wish we were both “key” bloody workers.

330946 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ wayno, replying to Adamb, #1149 of 1197 🔗

I feel your pain

330853 BeBopRockSteady, 3, #1150 of 1197 🔗

Japan’s Unit 731.
https://youtu.be/AFEgz8NNmVA

Not a pretty watch but a strong reminder of how wrong things can go

330872 Tyneside Tigress 2021, 14, #1151 of 1197 🔗

The strategy is the same as in March 2020. Deadly virus/variant spotted in a sample of dubious provenance. Specially-commissioned mathematical modeling by SPI-M that predicts hospitalisations and deaths of an order of magnitude above what could constitute a ‘reasonable worst case’ scenario. Teaching unions ready to go with the shutting schools narrative. Government of scientifically illiterate, incompetent, spineless minor talents panics and shuts the private sector down. Bingo. Marxists win again!

330878 BeBopRockSteady, 4, #1152 of 1197 🔗

Scottish test positivity numbers in an unnatural jump, all in line across the regions.

https://twitter.com/AlixJoan1/status/1344598580321988608

Yeah

330879 jonathan Palmer, replying to jonathan Palmer, 2, #1153 of 1197 🔗

Spi B have recommended masks in all secondary school classrooms,work settings and busy shopping streets according to the DailyMail,as a means of stopping transmission.
Schools and shops are closed and most people are working from home.
How much effect do they think that will have?

330882 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to jonathan Palmer, 7, #1154 of 1197 🔗

Busy shopping streets indeed, the next step on the road to making masks mandatory everywhere, forever. This will be accomplished by the end of this year.

330906 ▶▶▶ danny, replying to Richard O, 10, #1155 of 1197 🔗

By the time this has continued to next year, a child born in March 2020 will be close to 2 years old, and will assume that masks on grown ups is normal.
Let alone the ideology that every person might kill them, or of course the reverse and that the power over life and death lies with the child.
That is quite the psychological legacy for a whole new generation to begin life with.

330884 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to jonathan Palmer, 6, #1156 of 1197 🔗

As a way of turning the screw on us (those of us who still have jobs), as a way of enforcing yet more Sadean humiliation on a demoralised and almost dehumanised population? Very effective.

Rona? Rona? Who the fuck is Rona? This was never about the Rona. That is now utterly transparent.

330890 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Ovis, 2, #1157 of 1197 🔗

Sadean humiliation ” is entirely appropriate and an excellent summation of what is being done to us.

330900 ▶▶▶ jonathan Palmer, replying to Ovis, 3, #1158 of 1197 🔗

Spi B are behavioural scientists not doctors

330885 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to jonathan Palmer, 4, #1159 of 1197 🔗

You’ll also notice they discuss the encouragement of wearing masks at home.

330907 ▶▶▶ jonathan Palmer, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 5, #1160 of 1197 🔗

This is psychological war on the population by a government of occupation.

330886 danny, 8, #1161 of 1197 🔗

One possible strategy in terms of schools would be to picket the gates. Lots of media buzz always around concerned parents.
A second idea would be to demand risk assessments from all schools and LEAs on both a) the likelihood of Covid risk, and b) the risk assessment they have (of course) carried out to ensure that all children are safe and at no risk mentally or physically at home, during usual planned school hours, when they have a duty of care towards each child.

330888 DThom, replying to DThom, 14, #1162 of 1197 🔗

From BJ in the DT
Further job losses because of the “bitter economic consequences of being forced to fight Covid with lockdowns”
Who has forced our elected government to pursue lockdowns?
What a ship of fools!

330898 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to DThom, 3, #1163 of 1197 🔗

There may be an element of truth in this statement. For whatever reasons – primarily driven by his weakness as a leader from whichever angle you approach this – Johnson has indeed been “ forced to fight Covid with lockdowns “. At least he now openly admits that there are bitter economic consequences, something that was heresy to the Cult throughout 2020.

330893 bebophaircut, replying to bebophaircut, 2, #1164 of 1197 🔗

This is the 21st Century’s Battle of Britain:

Show Boris what true leadership is about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj61vXY8gbc

330909 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to bebophaircut, 3, #1165 of 1197 🔗

It’s the Battle of Britain for sure, but this time the Germans took over our airfields nine months ago and are using the RAF planes to bomb and strafe our towns and villages. Apparently it’s for our own good to eliminate the Bolshevik virus, so, mustn’t grumble.

330911 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to OKUK, 2, #1166 of 1197 🔗

And we invited them to occupy those airfields, clapping them as they marched in.

330894 Freddy Boy, 4, #1167 of 1197 🔗

Feel like Shugie Mcfee 😉 did in the “Great Escape” as he surveyed the wire !.. It was that 8- page document from SAGE , posted today that did it ! If that gets implemented we are F- – k-d !!..

330901 BTLnewbie, replying to BTLnewbie, 3, #1168 of 1197 🔗

Sorry, posted this as a belated answer to myself, so it gets lost down the thread – not for nothing am I called “BTLNewbie”!

Delighted to have started such a long discussion, and I welcome Mayo’s involvement – otherwise we become prone to groupthink.
No-one has touched on my 2nd question. Pfizer’s ‘95% effectiveness’ is based on a small number of infections in the vaccinated group, but over a very limited period. Will they continue to monitor that group?
a) for Covid and
b) for side-effects?
Or is it ‘job done’ now that they have the emergency approval, despite the absurdly limited test period. There is surely a reason why vaccines take many years to be approved.
As for the Astra vaccine, is there any published data as to how they justify the ‘full-dose then full-dose’ when the ‘half-dose then full-dose’ was so much more effective? I listened to the Q&A on vaccines on R4 this morning and the ‘experts’ were unconvincing and confused.
This feels akin to the rushed swine flu Pandemrix vaccine – quite unneccessary (as swine flu was not a major threat, despite Ferguson’s models), but with serious side-effects in youngsters throughout Europe.
Thanks all for the input – will pick up responses in the morning.

330915 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to BTLnewbie, 6, #1169 of 1197 🔗

On your second question: you probably know that the people who got 1/2 dose + full dose did so as the result of an error. The group that got this dosing was neither (a) large enough nor (b) appropriately constituted for any meaningful conclusions to be drawn from it – re: (b), there was noone over 55 in this group, for example. The real scandal was Oxford/AZ attempting to spin their jab as “up to 90% effective” based on this junk data.

330928 ▶▶ Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, replying to BTLnewbie, 3, #1170 of 1197 🔗

A letter to the editor in the BMJ in November. This sums up what I was getting at in the thread below about effectiveness in absolute vs. relative terms.

Dear Editor

Pfizer’s vaccine “may be more than 90% effective.” (Mahase, BMJ 2020;371:m4347, November 9) Specific data are not given but it is easy enough to approximate the numbers involved, based on the 94 cases in a trial that has enrolled about 40,000 subjects: 8 cases in a vaccine group of 20,000 and 86 cases in a placebo group of 20,000. This yields a Covid-19 attack rate of 0.0004 in the vaccine group and 0.0043 in the placebo group. Relative risk (RR) for vaccination = 0.093, which translates into a “vaccine effectiveness” of 90.7% [100(1-0.093)]. This sounds impressive, but the absolute risk reduction for an individual is only about 0.4% (0.0043-0.0004=0.0039). The Number Needed To Vaccinate (NNTV) = 256 (1/0.0039), which means that to prevent just 1 Covid-19 case 256 individuals must get the vaccine; the other 255 individuals derive no benefit, but are subject to vaccine adverse effects, whatever they may be and whenever we learn about them……We’ve already heard that an early effect of the vaccine is “like a hangover or the flu.” Will vaccinees who are later exposed to coronaviruses have more severe illness as a result of antibody-dependent enhancement of infection (ADEI), a known hazard of coronavirus vaccines? Is there squalene in the Pfizer vaccine? If so, will vaccinees be subject to autoimmune diseases, like Gulf War Syndrome and narcolepsy that have been associated with the adjuvant?

We already know that current Covid-19 vaccine trials are unlikely to show a reduction in severe illness or deaths. (Doshi, BMJ 2020;371:m4037, October 21) Will they be like seasonal influenza vaccines, which have not proved to be lifesavers, and may even have increased overall mortality in the elderly? (Anderson et al, Ann Intern Med 2020;172:445) We need a lot more time and a lot more data, especially in view of massive uncertainties about Covid-19 case definitions and statistics.

ALLAN S. CUNNINGHAM 13 November 2020

330902 danny, replying to danny, 16, #1171 of 1197 🔗

The next lockdown enthusiast I meet I will suggest they get a 5mph limiter fitted to their car.
Impossible to kill anyone at that speed. Pure selfishness to risk lives just so that they can get where they want to go quickly. We’re all in this together.

330908 ▶▶ Ossettian, replying to danny, 10, #1172 of 1197 🔗

You could easily kill a stray tortoise at 5 mph.

The only safe car is a stationary car.

330912 ▶▶▶ danny, replying to Ossettian, 7, #1173 of 1197 🔗

You could buy one of those fisher price steering wheels that go on the back seat, and all sit in the car making (silent and socially distant) brum brum car noises.

330917 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Ossettian, 7, #1174 of 1197 🔗

Really? With the engine on, pumping out all those noxious gases? Hardly! We need the equivalent of a mask. Every car should be stationary, have the engine switched off AND be fitted with a full body car cover. Then we will be safe. Of course there will be some exempt categories e.g. billionaires, journalists, and NHS staff.

330910 bebophaircut, replying to bebophaircut, 2, #1175 of 1197 🔗

Bill The Neurotic Psychotic Nerd Gates

330918 ▶▶ Dorian_Hawkmoon, replying to bebophaircut, 1, #1176 of 1197 🔗

I have the same Myers-Briggs psychological profile. Scary. But why aren’t I rich? 🤔

330919 godowneasy, 7, #1178 of 1197 🔗

Mange tout mes amis

330921 Dorian_Hawkmoon, replying to Dorian_Hawkmoon, 8, #1179 of 1197 🔗

Very old friend: “It is a sobering thought that, at the moment, in the UK alone, several plane loads of people are perishing each day.” WTF am I sposed to say. It’s demoralising.

330923 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Dorian_Hawkmoon, 13, #1180 of 1197 🔗

What, like every other day of every year since records began? What a fucking pillock.

330935 ▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Richard O, 3, #1181 of 1197 🔗

In April twice as many planes were falling out of the sky. But it’s a dreadful analogy.

330936 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to djaustin, 3, #1182 of 1197 🔗

Yes, because the government shot them down (all elderly hospital patients dumped into care homes and denied treatment more or less constitutes the April spike in deaths).

330931 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to Dorian_Hawkmoon, 5, #1183 of 1197 🔗

“About the same as this time last year my friend”

330951 ▶▶ Nobody2021, replying to Dorian_Hawkmoon, 3, #1184 of 1197 🔗

1500 people die on average every day. That’s many plane loads.

But they’re not all dying in plane crashes.

If it bothers them so much ask what ways of dying are more acceptable to them. Then ask if people were dying from those acceptable causes in the same numbers would that be ok?

I’ll wager many will be reluctant to answer such a question because they don’t like to face reality.

330960 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Dorian_Hawkmoon, #1185 of 1197 🔗

1,500 people die in Britain every day.

330962 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Dorian_Hawkmoon, #1186 of 1197 🔗

Please reassure your sobered friend with this table, from PHE, detailing influenza deaths by age group in the winters of 2014 to 2018, and the graph in the next post, showing weekly deaths for the same period with the effect of influenza added in red. The expected daily figure falls as low as roughly the capacity of the small Airbus A220 during the summer months. The excess influenza deaths usually peak at about 2,500 per week, or 350 per day, which equates to a full Airbus A350-900. This doesn’t, of course, take into account deaths from other causes accelerated by secondary influenza, or, as we now call it, “deaths with influenza”.

330963 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, #1187 of 1197 🔗

The graph…

330927 Cheshirecatslave, 13, #1188 of 1197 🔗

In previous pandemics, those who suffered had caught the virus in question and been ill or died, or were grieving for lost loved ones. In this pandemic, everyone is suffering as well as those unfortunate people, even if they never encountered the virus. Lockdowns break the “Do no harm” rule. Who knows how many will die as result?

330930 bebophaircut, replying to bebophaircut, 5, #1189 of 1197 🔗

We have to put immense pressure on the World Health Organization to revise their definition of a pandemic. Governments would not have gotten away with this scamdemic without the rules having been changed to kowtow to the pharmaceutical industry and public health organizations around the world.

330933 ▶▶ rockoman, replying to bebophaircut, 10, #1190 of 1197 🔗

What?

The WHO are in on the whole thing.

A colossal waste of time.

Do you really think that the WHO are somehow neutral or that the revised definition was an innocent mistake?

330941 bebophaircut, replying to bebophaircut, 1, #1191 of 1197 🔗

Is it true that most S.A.G.E. members are behavioural scientists? If so, it explains a lot.

330959 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to bebophaircut, #1192 of 1197 🔗

Nudge artists more like.

330948 Cheshirecatslave, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 2, #1193 of 1197 🔗

Just reading some of the sad stories of young healthy people who followed the rules dying of the virus. Dreadfully sad, but shows how useless the rules are and nothing the Government has done has slowed the virus. Why don’t they at least try suggesting people take vitamin D and Zinc? Surely anything that does no harm but might help prevent tragedy should be tried?

330950 ▶▶ rockoman, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 3, #1194 of 1197 🔗

Which virus would that be?

How was the presence of this virus established?

..and where did you read these….these ‘stories’?

330955 bebophaircut, 1, #1195 of 1197 🔗

Gaia, Mother Nature, back to the garden blah blah blah. The 4th Industrial Revolution and their Smart Cities will have no resemblance to this pretentious claptrap.

330957 bebophaircut, replying to bebophaircut, 1, #1196 of 1197 🔗

Have you ever wondered where the IMF the World Bank the Central Banks the United Nations the WHO get there money? Who is funding them. We are!

330958 ▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to bebophaircut, #1197 of 1197 🔗

oops. their money.

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