2021-01-08

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2021/01/08/latest-news-248/
Published2021-01-08T04:37:45
Last updated2021-01-09T03:51:27
Scraped2021-01-09T12:04:22
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342584 Hugh, replying to Hugh, 69, #1 of 2123 🔗

Can the government and “our” NHS please start taking advice from the Orthomolecular Medicine News Service and the Campaign for Truth in Medicine, rather than Bill Gates and his big pharma mates (and their proxies)? Then we might get somewhere! If not, why not?

Yes, money talks doesn’t it??

Ps Sir Graham Brady for PM (well who else have we got? realistically?)

342585 ▶▶ Bungle, replying to Hugh, 2, #2 of 2123 🔗

Beat me to it, you sod!

342589 ▶▶▶ Hugh, replying to Bungle, 1, #3 of 2123 🔗

Wasn’t even close this time! The competition has been quite hot recently though.

PS Someone I knew from near Sheffield, we used to call Bungle. I preferred Rainbow though (not THAT rainbow, the proper one)

342598 ▶▶▶▶ Bungle, replying to Hugh, #4 of 2123 🔗

High Hugh – I was originally called the Headingley Bugle but started putting it like this Bu(n)gle. Somehow the brackets got dropped, probably a mistake, always dropping things and bungling up!

342593 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Hugh, 16, #5 of 2123 🔗

Sir Desmond?

342594 ▶▶▶ Hugh, replying to kh1485, 25, #6 of 2123 🔗

Or Esther McVey, who I have seen in action pre-lockdown and consider her the real deal.

But Sir Graham is the one to get things done imo

342852 ▶▶▶ FlynnQuill, replying to kh1485, 6, #7 of 2123 🔗

I second that.

343034 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kh1485, 4, #8 of 2123 🔗

He seems to have the heart but I’m not sure he has the weight.

342649 ▶▶ Janette, replying to Hugh, #9 of 2123 🔗

Here here I totally agree Hugh

343014 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Hugh, 16, #10 of 2123 🔗

I don’t really care who they have as PM. LibLabCon, SNP, PC, Green, DUP or whoever is sat in that place are beyond the Pale as far as I’m concerned, with apparently sixteen honourable exceptions. Until the remainder are gone, and the existing party system is replaced by one of Direct Democracy, I refuse to consent to or co-operate with, whatever vile government exists, of whatever political colour.

343089 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Hugh, 8, #11 of 2123 🔗

Charles Walker?

343184 ▶▶▶ JASA, replying to Chicot, 13, #12 of 2123 🔗

Indeed. He has the most empathy. He is clearly very pained by the restrictions that are being imposed. His latest speech a couple of days ago was really good.

342586 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 118, #13 of 2123 🔗

The 8pm Ceaucescu silence was inspiring

I could touch it, feel it, smell it, a whispering death

‘ We woke up one morning and the guards had gone ‘ Concentration Camp survivor

10% and rising of the Met not turning up for work anymore

It’s starting to unravel and the pig dictator will not be able to ravel it again

I smell freedom

342590 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Cecil B, 45, #14 of 2123 🔗

Same here, not a peep from those in the summer who did as they were instructed and took to their doorsteps for the clapathon. Your last point? Here’s hoping.

342616 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to kh1485, 82, #15 of 2123 🔗

I’m reposting this from late night just for you kh, hope it brings some cheer.

342640 ▶▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to karenovirus, 64, #16 of 2123 🔗

The promotion of informer culture has been one of the most dispiriting aspects of this.

342653 ▶▶▶▶▶ Janette, replying to Waldorf, 11, #17 of 2123 🔗

Agreed

342661 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Waldorf, 12, #18 of 2123 🔗

And that engenders extreme mistrust.

342694 ▶▶▶▶▶ Annie, replying to Waldorf, 26, #19 of 2123 🔗

Quintessential totalitarianism.Oppression works best when the victims oppress themselves – and one another.

342697 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to Annie, 20, #20 of 2123 🔗

In German-occupied France, poison pen letters were extremely frequent. Of course there were people who denounced their neighbours to the Germans or to the French police (almost the same thing). Then the Liberation happened and people sent in denunciations of others for collaborating. It may well have been the same people writing both types of letters at different times.

342819 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Crystal Decanter, replying to Waldorf, 17, #21 of 2123 🔗

Keep a note of the lockdown zealots because they will flip when the worm turns
They must not be allowed to get a way with it
Use
Archive.today for any posts/profiles to keep a record forever

342859 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew K, replying to Crystal Decanter, 10, #22 of 2123 🔗

If this thing ever finishes and we win, I advocate we shave all the hair off the lockdown zealots

343703 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Annie, replying to Andrew K, 3, #23 of 2123 🔗

Plus scalp?

342915 ▶▶▶▶▶ Burlington, replying to Waldorf, 8, #24 of 2123 🔗

I believe that the generally adopted name for these people in WW2 was quisling . after Vidkun Quisling who founded a fascist pro Nazi party in Norway.

343548 ▶▶▶▶▶ LS99, replying to Waldorf, 16, #25 of 2123 🔗

Agreed, it has surprised me. I did think about yesterday’s piece in LS about the a person snitching on a recently widowed lady in a small village and just thought how bloody bonkers are some people that they dob in their extremely distressed and grieving neighbour for a minor breach in the rules to the callous, faceless bureaucracy that is government.

342657 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to karenovirus, 33, #26 of 2123 🔗

That’s great, thanks karenovirus. Like he says these COVID puritans are very brave behind your back. They never, ever say anything to your face. Mind you, it was ever thus. Had quite a number of snarky reviewers on TwatAdvisor who, bizarrely, weren’t quite brave enough to air their complaints in person. One such (nice to my face, nasty online – though got a rocket back for his hypocrisy) actually returned the other week. He thinks I don’t remember him, but I do!

I do think that what is required is some sort of movement to be created for small businesses to get together to provide some sort of support for each other. Trouble is here, we are the lone proponents of the lockdown sceptics’ cause.

342698 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 37, #27 of 2123 🔗

So true. That “friend” who posted about his disgust at the “covidiots” not wearing masks couldn’t even say it in my face and instead just posted his rant on Facebook.

People who virtue signal on their social media platforms and grass others to the police should be careful. They will get their comeuppance at some point especially when the day of reckoning comes.

342789 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to Bart Simpson, 14, #28 of 2123 🔗

This is the trouble, people will spill their bile online but are too cowardly to say anything to your face. I know a few like that. I now just ignore most social media. Facebook & twitter are now like poison.

342861 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to FarBeyondDrivenDevil, 8, #29 of 2123 🔗

Exactly. Facebook especially is the worst – loads of virtue signalling and enables people to say things that they wouldn’t say in person.

343223 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to Bart Simpson, 27, #30 of 2123 🔗

I doubt the whole lockdown charade would have happened if it wasn’t for the internet. If there were no zoom calls, ordering shopping online, working at home online, social media etc then I think the covid edifice would have fully crumbled by now. The internet has allowed this rubbish to carry on for this long.

343558 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to FarBeyondDrivenDevil, 2, #31 of 2123 🔗

What about the thousands of people who embraced working at home and shopping online?

343724 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to bebophaircut, 6, #32 of 2123 🔗

They’re all right Jack, thank you very much.

344024 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to bebophaircut, 9, #33 of 2123 🔗

I wasn’t having a poke at anyone who works from home/shops online. The point I was making was that the internet has allowed the whole “stay at home” thing to go on. If we didn’t have the net I doubt they’d have been able to keep people locked down for that long if they had to leave home for work, shopping etc and people didn’t have the ability to do everything online.

343881 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ ElizaP, replying to FarBeyondDrivenDevil, 4, #34 of 2123 🔗

I’ve been saying that for some time – with the last Big Virus event being 2016 (and, even in that few years to 2020, the Internet has become yet more prevalent) and that is the difference imo as to why Lockdown happened this time – but not for previous ones.

344041 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to ElizaP, 7, #35 of 2123 🔗

Its mass media in general as well as the net, the last big pandemic we had in the UK, Hong Kong flu in 1968 in which around 80k people died, my parents remember it. We only had 3 tv channels, daily newspapers and the radio. The papers usually just stated the facts and that was that. Thus it wasn’t known about that much or heavily publicized. Now with 24/7 news coverage and the media running fear porn it has sent the general public into a frenzy.

343404 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to FarBeyondDrivenDevil, 12, #36 of 2123 🔗

A couple of years ago I was falsely accused of sexual harassment in a Facebook post by a (then) friend. I wasn’t named in the post but it included the phrase “he knows who he is”. But the accusation was so out of line with what had actually happened (nothing different from previous interactions we’d had), that I didn’t realise at all that it referred to me, until an exchange of personal messages a few days later. “Unfriending” on both sides duly followed, but I also knew her mobile number and sent a message suggesting that it was worth checking the law on defamation of character. From other sources I think she deleted the FB post but there is at least one person (an associate of the accuser) who pointedly ignores me now (in real life). However there are others who I have reason to believe know of the original accusation but are still fine with me, so I’ve limited the damage. It illustrates exactly your point about people spewing bile on social media rather than having a word in private.

344052 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to Edward, 3, #37 of 2123 🔗

You shouldn’t have to put up with people like that.

342809 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Bart Simpson, 10, #38 of 2123 🔗

A brick through the window would be good for openers.

342864 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Rowan, 4, #39 of 2123 🔗

And what will follow will make them wish that they’ve never grassed on their neighbours or virtue signalled on social media.

343887 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ ElizaP, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #40 of 2123 🔗

Oh you really don’t want to be on some Facebook pages. I pity the poor admins, for instance, of the I Love Pembrokeshire Facebook page – given the number of times recently someone puts up stuff appropriate to the page (eg photos of nice countryside etc) and …bang…..up comes a Covidian (or two) wanting to know if they’ve taken those photos since Lockdown started or before…..grrrr.

342998 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to Bart Simpson, 21, #41 of 2123 🔗

I had a friend like that we’d text a few times discussing the situation so he knew my stance then last week did a full on rant on FB saying those that disagree with the government and scientists and don’t follow the rules are ignorant selfish bastards and finished it with just wear a mask you dumb f**KS
So I immediately text him and gave him a piece and told him I will be replying on his post and lo and behold he deleted it ,he text me back to apologise but I haven’t replied and won’t be either

343128 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to tonyspurs, 6, #42 of 2123 🔗

My”friend” did apologise too and I replied but I don’t really talk to him all that much anymore.

343162 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Foster, replying to tonyspurs, 30, #43 of 2123 🔗

It looks like many people on here (me included) now have fewer friends than was the case before the battle lines were drawn. Very strong feelings have been expressed that make resumption of old friendships just about impossible. I’m certainly not about to be very forgiving towards those who I regard as collaborators. So, if the tyranny ever ends, I would like to think it would be possible to organise a bit of a Sceptical ‘do.’ for all the faithful freedom lovers and determined dissenters. It would be good to meet some of the fine LS people who’ve kept the flag flying, provided rationality/data/stats/humour/hope and generally made the isolation considerably more bearable than it would otherwise have been.
Anybody got a big field?

343731 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Annie, replying to Steve Foster, 21, #44 of 2123 🔗

I have eight acres of grass and a very large shed. And a sea view. Everybody will be welcome.

342764 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to kh1485, 19, #45 of 2123 🔗

Early in lockdown Toby had a permanent and ever growing list of businesses that had reopened
I discovered two outdoor cafes from that and frequent them still.

Perhaps he could create a similar list of businesses that refused to bow to the nonsense, displayed notice of contempt for it or only adhered to the strict requirements of the law.

343068 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sceptical Steve, replying to karenovirus, 19, #46 of 2123 🔗

I had an interesting facebook exchange with the landlady of my favourite pub/microbrewery yesterday. I was ordering some takeaway food for Friday evening, and bemoaned the fact that I couldn’t add any beer to the order. She told me that she’s challenging the ruling, on the basis that she’s operating a brewery and should be able to sell her wares. We’ll have to see how that story develops…

343400 ▶▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to kh1485, 13, #47 of 2123 🔗

I have been wondering why the Federation of Small Businesses has not been more prominently active defending their members’ interests. Their small businesses have been bearing the brunt of the ‘government’ misconceived actions.

342597 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cecil B, 40, #48 of 2123 🔗

Hancock clearly in retreat saying that restrictions can be lifted once X% are vaccinated with no reference to cases or even deaths (from the main article).

342651 ▶▶▶ WasSteph, replying to karenovirus, 32, #49 of 2123 🔗

Oh please let it be so. Has he realised he’s pushed it too far and is now backing off? The ideas quoted above are really quite mild and almost could be lived with. I don’t mind a social norm of mask wearing “like the Far East” because we know that really isn’t the case there and the Great British public will drop it like a hot potato as soon as possible. Not his usual psychopathic dictatorial stance at all.

342658 ▶▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to WasSteph, 24, #50 of 2123 🔗

I am no expert on psychology but if they were smart they would row back on the stuff from time to time, merely for tactical reasons. The constant “doom, doom, doom” frightens people but eventually starts to exhaust them and creates potential scepticism – it isn’t like corpses are piling up in the street, even as the high street goes bust.

342734 ▶▶▶▶▶ Llamasaurus Rex, replying to Waldorf, 39, #51 of 2123 🔗

They may be rowing back. However, the Push/pull seesaw is a psychological manipulation tactic to keep the victim weak. I believe that’s what’s going on here, and reckon narcopath Wankok is playing us.

342921 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Llamasaurus Rex, 26, #52 of 2123 🔗

Hancock may be playing the weak-kneed Alistair Haimes, but he’s not playing me. Those who are now apparently falling for the propaganda concerning the second wave and for the worse than dodgy vaccines were never real sceptics to begin with and I have to wonder about their real motives. Perhaps calling them bedwetters, would be a fair description.

The engineered “pandemic” has been about vaccines from day one and it seems that these conjured up products will have very little do with protecting the people from any form of a respiratory illness. Their real purpose is ‘highly likely’ to be something much more sinister.

Somehow those running this “pandemic” event knew all along that there would be a second and perhaps even a third wave of Covid-19, though even a second wave would have defied all what was previously known about about wild coronavirus infections.

If thinking people aren’t yet suspicious about what’s going on, then it seems that they have been sleeping through the past nine months. These same people have effectively abdicated responsibility for the welfare of both themselves and their families and are highly complicit in the utter shit, that’s now coming for all of us.

343574 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to Rowan, 5, #53 of 2123 🔗

How did these experts know that there would be a second and third wave? Did a little birdie tell them?

343846 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Smith, replying to bebophaircut, 3, #54 of 2123 🔗

Ferguson’s computer said so.

342771 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Waldorf, 16, #55 of 2123 🔗

Giving small short term concessions is part of the N. Korea brainwashing game, it leads people to think greater concessions might be made if only they cooperated a bit more.
That’s probably a bit too subtle for hancock though.

343510 ▶▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Waldorf, 3, #56 of 2123 🔗

Trouble is that soon after they row back they turn round and become more vengeful and spout more screwy demands.

342683 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to WasSteph, 26, #57 of 2123 🔗

They wear masks in the Far East because of pollution.

342701 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bella Donna, 6, #58 of 2123 🔗

And they’re causing social issues as well.

343090 ▶▶▶▶ Sceptical Steve, replying to WasSteph, 17, #59 of 2123 🔗

When he was doing the press rounds yesterday, there was one revealing exchange in which Hancock seemed shocked to hear that his legacy would be to be remembered as one of the key proponents of the repeated lockdowns. He’d obviously laboured under the misapprehension that he would be forever revered for his role as the “the man who had delivered vaccines to the nation”. The fact that he’s so obviously and completely out of touch tells you all you need to know about our political leaders and their advisors.

343120 ▶▶▶▶▶ Caramel, replying to Sceptical Steve, 1, #60 of 2123 🔗

Have you got a link to that?

343331 ▶▶▶▶▶ Staincliffe, replying to Sceptical Steve, 4, #61 of 2123 🔗

Yes, I always think of him as Boris’s tethered goat. He’s only kept in post to be a target and take the flak.

343578 ▶▶▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to Sceptical Steve, 2, #62 of 2123 🔗

He lives in a bubble. Like most of us.

342681 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to karenovirus, 18, #63 of 2123 🔗

Yes I detected a climbdown too, perhaps he has experienced a lot of hate mail OR he knows he will be the fall guy when the truth comes out.

343630 ▶▶▶▶ sophie123, replying to Bella Donna, 9, #64 of 2123 🔗

I actually want to kill him. And I am not a psychotic murderer.
I actually knows someone who knows him (their kids go to the same school). I dont know how he hasnt stabbed him to death yet.

343904 ▶▶▶▶▶ ElizaP, replying to sophie123, 3, #65 of 2123 🔗

You could look at him for long enough to kill him? You’re one up on me there then – as I am a visual person and so couldn’t look at him for long enough to do so (ie because he’s ugly and I hate anything/anyone that is ugly and literally can’t look at them if I can help it) LOL.

344333 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ number 6, replying to ElizaP, 2, #66 of 2123 🔗

Careful there. You’re dealing with a Gorgon. Need special PPE, not available from China, perhaps Greese has som old stock? Check eBay.

342700 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to karenovirus, 14, #67 of 2123 🔗

I get the feeling he knows his days are numbered.

342794 ▶▶▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to Bart Simpson, 12, #68 of 2123 🔗

By Election in West Suffolk soon hopefully, as one of his constituents it would give me great pleasure to get him kicked out.

342866 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to FarBeyondDrivenDevil, 3, #69 of 2123 🔗

And before that, removed from the cabinet and consigned to the back benches.

342939 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Burlington, replying to Bart Simpson, 17, #70 of 2123 🔗

Better still. Taken to the International criminal court for crimes against humanity.

344061 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to Burlington, 3, #71 of 2123 🔗

The Hague is going to be a very busy place in the coming years.

343230 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to Bart Simpson, 13, #72 of 2123 🔗

I’m actually sick of Matt Hancock, he is a slimy little creep and useless as health secretary.

342602 ▶▶ Annie, replying to Cecil B, 14, #73 of 2123 🔗

Oh sweet sweet smell of roasting pork.

342607 ▶▶ Waldorf, replying to Cecil B, 26, #74 of 2123 🔗

The police statistic is interesting – they are relatively well-paid, have more powers than nearly everyone else in lockdowns and a proportion of them, the worst ones, get a kick out of all this. If nonetheless the Covid circus is starting to get to them there is hope yet.

342696 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Waldorf, 43, #75 of 2123 🔗

The police are in the main utterly imbecilic. it’s part of the entrance exam. Plus you have to take pleasure in hurting people. I despise everyone who works for the state no matter what job they do. These people are fascists who take the money i earn and spend it themselves claiming they need to force me to pay for services they are supplying. They are just the Mafia

342737 ▶▶▶▶ Llamasaurus Rex, replying to Biker, 7, #76 of 2123 🔗

This is plainer to see than ever

342797 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Biker, 6, #77 of 2123 🔗

In London during the 70s and 80s hardly any coppers were local, they were always asking people the way.
High flyers came in from the provinces for the enhanced career opportunities working for The Met and provincial failures were taken on to provide the street muscle.

342877 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to karenovirus, 2, #78 of 2123 🔗

Did you ever watch Heartbeat? That was how one of the characters exited the programme – a visiting DCI from the Met was very impressed with one of the local policeman’s work that he engineered to have him transferred the Met as a DI which he quickly accepted following the death of the doctor he was planning to propose to.

343951 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ianric, replying to karenovirus, 1, #79 of 2123 🔗

A factor as to why so many met officers were not from London was that provincial forces didn’t recruit very often whilst the met was always recruiting. A friend of mine applied for the met.

342975 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Biker, 1, #80 of 2123 🔗

Didn’t you post once that you’d worked on mine-hunters in Rosyth?

343021 ▶▶▶▶ Beowa, replying to Biker, 5, #81 of 2123 🔗

Ever since the College of Policing was set up and the oath changed

My late father in law was a force trainer and he would be utterly appalled at the way modern policing has gone – they’re scruffy.arrogant and far to handy
Very few know how to talk to people or how to de escalate confrontations
This is the perfect example

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9123839/Coronavirus-Scotland-Three-people-charged-assaulting-police.html

343710 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jez Hewitt, replying to Beowa, 8, #82 of 2123 🔗

A good mate of mine, one of the most decent, gentle, human beings I’ve known (he fuckin detested bullying of any kind), is an ex-armed copper who was part of a personal protection detail to a very high profile diplomat.

This diplomat used to frequent one of those central London old boys clubs and on one occasion he witnessed a recent ex PM getting his arse chewed out by one of the members (metaphorically, although they may very well indulge literally but he didn’t say). He was aghast that someone would speak so disrespectfully to him like that in front of everyone.

Being the professional that he was, he never disclosed what was said throughout the evening but he was certain of one thing:

“Buddy, if you think the Prime Minister and the government are running the country, you are sorely mistaken.”

343463 ▶▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to Biker, 4, #83 of 2123 🔗

I remember a case in the USA where either a serving policeman or a potential police recruit was penalised because he did too well on an intelligence test. While plainclothes detectives might have something going on upstairs many uniformed cops in my experience are not bright and might feel threatened by people who are.

343910 ▶▶▶▶▶ ElizaP, replying to Waldorf, 1, #84 of 2123 🔗

LOL – as I recall looking up the respective IQs of myself and my younger brother one time. Up came our chances re getting into the American armed forces (courtesy of Google). He is only 80 IQ and came up as = they wouldn’t take him on because they would wonder if he would literally understand orders. I then looked up my own IQ (ie 130 IQ) and they wouldnt have taken me on either (as, in my own case, = I’d understand the orders alright – and be questioning them LOL). So I guess they want the average IQ – of 100.

343041 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Waldorf, 4, #85 of 2123 🔗

Probably swinging the lead and “on the sick”. A bit like a lot of NHS staff atm.

342614 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cecil B, 10, #86 of 2123 🔗

I feel retrenchment coming up, followed by retreat and capitulation dressed up as victory, bozo the classisist will know some examples.

342642 ▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to karenovirus, 4, #87 of 2123 🔗

Crassus being torn a new arse by the Parthians?

342670 ▶▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Waldorf, 1, #88 of 2123 🔗

I like that historical example.

342945 ▶▶▶▶ Burlington, replying to Waldorf, 3, #89 of 2123 🔗

Sic semper tyranis

343057 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Waldorf, 1, #90 of 2123 🔗

Perillos and the Brazen Bull.

343473 ▶▶▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #91 of 2123 🔗

The bed of Procrustes for Boris.

343747 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Annie, replying to Waldorf, 2, #92 of 2123 🔗

Does it do too fat, as well as too short and too long?

342823 ▶▶▶ Crystal Decanter, replying to karenovirus, 6, #93 of 2123 🔗

archive.today
Keep a record of the collaborators whenever you can
They will swear blind they were on the right side

343206 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to karenovirus, 2, #94 of 2123 🔗

Jason and the Argonauts?

343590 ▶▶▶ Dorian_Hawkmoon, replying to karenovirus, 2, #95 of 2123 🔗

Pyrrhus most obviously. Quietly pushed off home after the battle of Beneventum. “If we are victorious in one more battle with the Romans, we shall be utterly ruined.”

342650 ▶▶ Janette, replying to Cecil B, 2, #96 of 2123 🔗

Let’s hope so

342669 ▶▶ Waldorf, replying to Cecil B, 13, #97 of 2123 🔗

Psychologically mistimed. Now is not last year and people are tired of this thing. They call it “war” but by 1915 the patriotic enthusiasm of 1914 had died down though mutinies had not yet started.
I wonder if it was promoted again as a trial balloon to see if they could get the performing seals act again? If so, the response was disappointing for them.

342800 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Waldorf, 7, #98 of 2123 🔗

Hence hancocks sudden backtracking.

Grant Shapps was on the Today Programme this morning, all about people having to test before coming into the country. A nice little earner at £150 a pop and with calls to make it the same internationally that will price a large proportion of people from foreign travel so they will want it firmly in place before they cave.

342835 ▶▶▶▶ mj, replying to karenovirus, 4, #99 of 2123 🔗

heard him on talk.. JHB seemed a little too chummy and gave him an easy ride

342847 ▶▶▶▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to mj, 5, #100 of 2123 🔗

Not literally I hope lol.

342990 ▶▶▶▶ JanMasarykMunich, replying to karenovirus, 9, #101 of 2123 🔗

Will devastate airline industry. That is certainly what the Greta fanatics want. But is it really what the public wants?

343749 ▶▶▶▶▶ Annie, replying to JanMasarykMunich, 3, #102 of 2123 🔗

Public wants cheap flights to cheap resorts with lots of booze and sun.
When not zombified, that is.

342779 ▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to Cecil B, 24, #103 of 2123 🔗

Was dead quiet last night, plus parents told me their village & street was silent at 8pm. I’ve noticed ITV showed a report this morning about a street clapping (some in masks) but it looks staged to me. I think people are fed up and the mood is now turning.

342804 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 5, #104 of 2123 🔗

The silence of the lambs

343016 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cecil B, 9, #105 of 2123 🔗

Like I’ve said here and elsewhere, it may be sluggish, but the tide turned some time ago. We are catching the waverers, who will always be waverers of course, but we can now expect the tide to run faster and stronger as time passes.

342587 Viv, replying to Viv, 27, #106 of 2123 🔗

No no no no no! No!
Sorry to nitpick first thing in the morning – but the marvellous painting gracing this Newsletter isn’t depicting the Charge of the Light Brigade riding into the ‘Valley of Death’ – this is the Union Brigade with their “terrible white horses” (Napoleon) who charged the French columns of D’Erlon at Waterloo and destroyed them utterly.
Sorry – it had to be said. After all, honour to whom honour is due!

342591 ▶▶ Hugh, replying to Viv, 4, #107 of 2123 🔗

Easy mistake to make though.

You know, the Guardian once mistakenly showed a picture of one of those steamy volcanic springs in Iceland in an article about some of the more polluted areas of the planet(as I remember it). The person (or should that be “peroffspring?”) later wrote a penitential piece about how wonderful Iceland is (genocide against Down’s Syndrome babies notwithstanding).

Well, goodnight!

342595 ▶▶▶ Viv, replying to Hugh, 1, #108 of 2123 🔗

G’Night, Hugh!

342604 ▶▶▶ Annie, replying to Hugh, 1, #109 of 2123 🔗

Iceland is wonderful.

343583 ▶▶▶ LaurenceEyton, replying to Hugh, 1, #110 of 2123 🔗

The misattribution of the painting was the first thing I saw about the column today and after almost having stroke (I know we live in the twilight of Western culture but really!), was going to say the same thing but you beat me to it. (Sorry, this was actually a reply to Viv but I don’t know how to delete it and put it in the right place).

342603 ▶▶ Annie, replying to Viv, 5, #111 of 2123 🔗

Heck, I didn’t know that! I love a corrective statement with my morning tea! Thank you!

342747 ▶▶▶ Viv, replying to Annie, 4, #112 of 2123 🔗

Well, the Waterloo Bicentennial was only five-and-a-bit years ago and we were given en articles galore then. Since my memory is still working better than that of the common-or-garden snowflake which only goes back to Tuesday, of course I remembered. ‘Tis one of the seminal paintings, after all.
Not that I’m accusing the owner and editors of these august pages of, ahem, suffering from memory-deficit.

342773 ▶▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to Viv, 4, #113 of 2123 🔗

I went on a tour of the Waterloo battlefield in August 2019, which seems like an eternity ago but is not even 18 months past.

343753 ▶▶▶▶▶ Annie, replying to Waldorf, #114 of 2123 🔗

It’s BC. Before Covid.
Or WN. When Normal.
Takes an effort now to remember it.

342849 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Viv, 4, #115 of 2123 🔗

This tale seems relevant now.

At last after he had left the town, he found in a little meadow on the right a small bivouac fire made by some soldiers. He stopped by it to warm himself and said to General Corbineau,
“Et bien Monsieur, we have done a fine thing.”
General Corbineau saluted him and replied,
“Sire, it is the utter ruin of France.”

Jardin Ainé; Equerry to the Emperor Napoleon

342615 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to Viv, 9, #116 of 2123 🔗

And then there was the TOTP episode that had Jocky Wilson (Darts player) as a backdrop for a song about Jackie Wilson (soul singer) by Dexys midnight runners.
Think it was called Jackie Wilson says.

342630 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Fingerache Philip, 3, #117 of 2123 🔗

Last year the early morning radio 2 presenter was doing a culture slot
‘Ooh look, a fab new lifestyle about the brilliant Denis Nielson, isn’t he fantastic! Yes it says here Dennis Nilson one of the country’s wors t . . ser..ial um kill..ers. . .’
Cut to music.

342663 ▶▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to karenovirus, 4, #118 of 2123 🔗

“Next up – John Wayne Gacy, and how some Americans fill up the empty spaces under their apartments.”

342860 ▶▶▶▶▶ mj, replying to Waldorf, 2, #119 of 2123 🔗

had to look him up .. Next week an episode of Brookside about how to level off your patio .

342845 ▶▶▶ mj, replying to Fingerache Philip, 3, #120 of 2123 🔗

Jackie Wilson said

342853 ▶▶▶▶ mj, replying to mj, 4, #121 of 2123 🔗

Jackie Wilson…. sympathy for the BBC.. So difficult to tell Jackie and Jockie apart. Imagine the woke complaints from BLM if that happened today

343320 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to mj, #122 of 2123 🔗

Thanks.

342899 ▶▶ Hamilton, replying to Viv, 5, #123 of 2123 🔗

The painting is “Scotland Forever!” by Elizabeth Thompson. It’s in Leeds Art Gallery:
‘”Scotland Forever!” is an 1881 painting by Lady Butler [Elizabeth Thompson] depicting the start of the cavalry charge of the Royal Scots Greys who charged alongside the British heavy cavalry at the Battle of Waterloo in 1815 during the Napoleonic wars.’

342901 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to Viv, 11, #124 of 2123 🔗

Yes. They won, crushing an arrogant enemy who had wasted Europe.

Why does the LS movement keep painting itself into this corner of heroic defeat? We do have a powerful ally: the truth. The regime is losing support because people do have memories, they know the story does not add up.

I know people who have been shitting themselves for a full year, who have realised that they can’t keep living like that. They’re still scared and disorientated, but their faith in the official narrative is gone. It must feel a little like being on the losing side in a war. They have made huge sacrifices and know it has all been a waste, but at least they are ready to start living normally again. The regime is no longer a saviour in many people’s eyes, it’s just an obstacle to moving on.

343252 ▶▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to Ovis, 6, #125 of 2123 🔗

Its often hard to be someone who knows the truth when the whole world seems to be wrapped up in the lies and disbelieves you but it does seem people are starting to have the blinkers removed.

343622 ▶▶▶ Dorian_Hawkmoon, replying to Ovis, 1, #126 of 2123 🔗

Hmm, well, much of Europe was despotic and he did liberate and introduce significant constitutional improvements (although clearly at high cost). Of course, he was the enemy but post his fall British and other Govts (e.g notably Russia, with long term consequences) were able to roll back and double down on repression of dissenters through early 19C. Just saying, it’s complicated…

343757 ▶▶▶▶ Annie, replying to Dorian_Hawkmoon, #127 of 2123 🔗

The Napoleonic regime in Spain was certainly far better than the awful dead hand of the Spanish Bourbons, which returned after Napoleon’s fall.
Napoleon was by no means all bad.
Unlike some I could mention.

344674 ▶▶▶▶▶ Monty Greene, replying to Annie, #128 of 2123 🔗

Despite his arrogance and egotism.he was vastly better than the ancien regime and he did curb the excesses of the Revolution. He badly miscalculated in Spain though. No matter how poorly the Bourbons ruled, the French were seen as foreign invaders and the people rallied against them. Spain was a quagmire for the French armies, who were embroiled in a tenacious guerrilla war whose atrocities were preserved in Goya’s etchings.

343043 ▶▶ Alan P, replying to Viv, 3, #129 of 2123 🔗

Not white horses but grey. The 2nd Royal North British dragoon’s aka the Scots greys. They formed part of the union brigade alongside the 1st Royal Dragoon’s and the 6th Inniskillen dragoon’s under general Ponsonby.

342592 goldensacks, replying to goldensacks, 44, #130 of 2123 🔗

Really appreciate the article “London Hospitals Really Are in Crisis”. This is the only source I trust for news like this. I still believe Lockdowns are the wrong answer but the problem is obviously serious. It’s also an indicator of the high quality of news presented here.

342605 ▶▶ Annie, replying to goldensacks, 19, #131 of 2123 🔗

It’s also a warning. If you get ill in London, for God’s sake make sure you’ve (also) got Covid, or you’re doomed.

343809 ▶▶▶ Jez Hewitt, replying to Annie, 5, #132 of 2123 🔗

Just insist on a PCR test at 40 cycles… you’ll have covid alright.

342596 Bungle, 34, #133 of 2123 🔗

Your “in-house senior doctor” supplies 7 graphs relating to ‘Covid’ with one from Zoe in the middle. Since reference to ‘Covid’ depends on nonsensical RT-PCR test, those 7 are not worth putting in this blog. The Zoe one, while more interesting, is still merely about symptoms which could be flu. Your doctor finishes with their opinion on whether lockdowns work or not. ‘Expert opinion’ is the lowest form of medical evidence and your doctor is no expert. Ivor Cummins points to 25 papers showing lockdowns do not work – this is what we should be looking at, not the opinion of some no-doubt hard pressed, stressed front line worker.

342599 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 16, #134 of 2123 🔗

On the subject of using up Pfizer stocks before their sell by date (main article).
They should put Weatherspoons in charge since Tim Martin’s Business Plan is buying up soon-to-be out of date beer in large quantities and shifting it, cheap, to the punters who want it.

342839 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to karenovirus, 5, #135 of 2123 🔗

I’m afraid that is an urban myth -see https://protzonbeer.co.uk/features/2012/09/16/beer-taxes-stop-crippling-pubs-says-w-spoon-boss-in-plea-to-government and “On his pricing policy he laughed again and, before I could pose the question, said: “You’re going to ask me about ‘short dated beer’ – well, we don’t do it.” This is the persistent rumour that Wetherspoon buy beer that’s close to its sell-by date from brewers. “The beer we sell is the freshest you can get. We buy 90 to 95% per cent of Greene King’s production of Ruddles. Beers from micros sell faster than anyone else’s and we take beer from 50% of the country’s micros.”

342842 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to karenovirus, 6, #136 of 2123 🔗

Even Tim Martin couldn’t get me jabbed although I shall be back at The Leading Light drinking his beer and eating his food as soon as possible.

342972 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 12, #137 of 2123 🔗

I’ll only be back once the muzzles have gone and I can sit at the bar if I so choose .

342600 Bungle, replying to Bungle, 48, #138 of 2123 🔗

Good writing by Toby but, Toby, comrade, don’t give them a crumb. You told Emily Maitlis you were wrong when you were not and now you’re saying what a good thing the vaccine is. We don’t need a vaccine since the kids are generating herd immunity and we certainly don’t need dodgy ones – is David Cameron involved? Keep up the good work. LS is the first thing I do in the morning!

342623 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Bungle, 28, #139 of 2123 🔗

Toby needs a slap around the chops. This new found defeatism stinks right when end is in sight. Whether it is fatigue or not, I don’t know but I don’t like it right when we are on the cusp of victory.

342626 ▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to Tom Blackburn, 8, #140 of 2123 🔗

I do think the other side is starting to feel the pressure.

342762 ▶▶▶ Bungle, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #141 of 2123 🔗

Solidarity to you mate/comrade/friend – choose the one you prefer.

342832 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #142 of 2123 🔗

Nothing except a battle lost can be half as melancholy as a battle won.

Wellington

343087 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #143 of 2123 🔗

“What is best in life?”

“To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.”

OK that’s fiction, but a lot better than Wellington’s twaddle.

343444 ▶▶▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #144 of 2123 🔗

His most memorable comment for me was describing his own troops as “the scum of the earth”. Nelson was never so crass about RN sailors, as far as I am aware.

343767 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Annie, replying to Waldorf, 2, #145 of 2123 🔗

Wellington also said that the ‘scum’ ‘made fine fellows’ in the end.

343766 ▶▶▶▶▶ Annie, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #146 of 2123 🔗

Yes let’s crush our foul zombie enemy. But if you read the descriptions of the field of Waterloo next day, you can certainly see Wellington’s point. And he had seen many, many battlefields. And he never lost a battle.

343792 ▶▶▶▶▶ Spikedee1, replying to Nick Rose, #147 of 2123 🔗

That’s Conan innit?

343044 ▶▶▶ Dodderydude, replying to Tom Blackburn, 17, #148 of 2123 🔗

When I saw the interview by Emily Maitlis I could not believe what I was seeing when Toby apologised for something which he could so easily have defended and justified with expert evidence he has been publishing on here for months. Was it a rabbit in headlights moment? That’s the problem we are up against. Just when you think lockdown sceptics have taken two steps forward in their battle something like that happens and we go back at least two steps.

I confess I didn’t read every ATL article in detail today but glanced through trying to identify the salient points being made. In some places I wondered if I’d mistakenly ventured onto a pro-lockdown site: pro-vaccine sentiments; meaningless statistics; promulgation of the idea that all the hospital admissions are directly caused by covid; no acknowledgment that any surge in hospitalisations could be, at least partially, lockdown collateral; failure to make the important distinction between cases and infections. I’m sure there are other examples but it’s very odd and doing ‘our cause’ no good whatsoever.

343676 ▶▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to Dodderydude, 4, #149 of 2123 🔗

Mr Young should have listened to dozens of Maitlis interviews to properly prepare himself for her attacks. And how to parry them.

344241 ▶▶▶▶ Kam, replying to Dodderydude, #150 of 2123 🔗

If the surge in hospital admissions can be caused (partially or otherwise) by the lockdown itself, why are admissions dramatically increasing in recent weeks when we have just entered lockdown a few days ago? Why were hospital admissions significantly declining the longer the first lockdown endured – shouldn’t it have been the other way around?

You seem very entrenched in your views and tribal. All about the “cause” as opposed to actually getting to the truth.

343077 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tom Blackburn, 6, #151 of 2123 🔗

It’s certainly no time to wobble.

343764 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bungle, 6, #152 of 2123 🔗

Yes, I was alarmed by his enthusiastic vaccine stuff.

342601 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 10, #153 of 2123 🔗

I am not sure if this is allowed to be mentioned these days but at one time there was discussion about the vulnerability of Black and Asian origin people to Covid. Is this still the case or is this not discussed anymore? Living in Devon I note that many of the local authority areas with low ‘case’ rates are areas that are probably lower in average for BAME people, although they are also more rural which may have an impact.

342609 ▶▶ Annie, replying to Steve Martindale, 8, #154 of 2123 🔗

Shock horror devastation.
Remember that the ultra-lefties simply adore Covid, their key to world domination. Darling Covvie just couldn’t be racist. It just isn’t possible for this splendid totalitarian virus to be racially selective, no sirree.

342632 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Annie, 5, #155 of 2123 🔗

I have just managed with some difficulty to pick through some Public Health England data, looking at total registered deaths since March 2020, the % of deaths with Covid mentioned on the death certificate;
People of Asian origin 29%
People of White origin 18.5%

342635 ▶▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to Steve Martindale, 4, #156 of 2123 🔗

I don’t have statistics but I know Turks and Kurds in London and they have been hit quite hard by Covid.

343283 ▶▶▶▶▶ jos, replying to Waldorf, 6, #157 of 2123 🔗

Vitamin D deficiency is higher the darker the skin

343452 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ mj, replying to jos, #158 of 2123 🔗

bloody racist vitamins

342917 ▶▶▶▶ Bungle, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #159 of 2123 🔗

but you know ‘mentioning covid’ means nothing

342684 ▶▶▶ Bill H, replying to Annie, 8, #160 of 2123 🔗

Hi Annie, honoured to address you. : )

On the Worldometers site, looking in the USA, there is data for at least some states which shows demographic breakdowns.

Black ethnic people around 50% more likely to suffer serious effects than white.

Economically disadvantaged about 50% more likely to be affected than rich.

And of course, older people, and those suffering other significant ailments, also more in the firing line. And obese players…..

Keep up your good work. Exemplary.

343635 ▶▶▶▶ frankfrankly, replying to Bill H, 1, #161 of 2123 🔗

Asian diabetes rate is 2x White folks.

342927 ▶▶▶ Bungle, replying to Annie, 7, #162 of 2123 🔗

Annie, so-called lefties and righties come together on Covid. Could I please ask you to stop slandering Socialists (for the many not the few) like myself? Thanks.

343782 ▶▶▶▶ Annie, replying to Bungle, #163 of 2123 🔗

Sorry. It’s true that extreme left and extreme right ‘ come together in situations such as this. Both are equally loathsome. But it’s generally the lefties who play the race card.
Early on in the bollox, a Grauniad journalist was heard to say ‘If Britain isn’t racist, how is it that so many Black and Asian people are dying of Covid?’

342610 ▶▶ Waldorf, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #164 of 2123 🔗

Right at the start there were assumptions in some quarters that Covid was mainly dangerous only to Chinese and not much of a danger to others (this was also accompanied by speculation that it was biological warfare directed at China). Then it hit Italy even though it is possible that was another strain.

342639 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Waldorf, 6, #165 of 2123 🔗

100s of thousands of Chinese guest workers in northern Italy but that probably accounts more for Transmission rather than ethnic bias from the virus.

343645 ▶▶▶▶ frankfrankly, replying to karenovirus, 1, #166 of 2123 🔗

Yes, in this country Chinese are close to WB; Indians next with lowest Covid rates-they have smaller families and more professional jobs (more than WB) but all Asian communities have many more community contacts-ie giving away food and eating together is very important so unsurprising all Brit. Asian rates are higher.

343670 ▶▶▶▶ Dorian_Hawkmoon, replying to karenovirus, 1, #167 of 2123 🔗

I saw the remark about Italian VitD levels being extremely low in hit area. That’s surprising unless it is an ethnic difference in immigrants. Is that the case?

343784 ▶▶▶▶▶ Annie, replying to Dorian_Hawkmoon, 2, #168 of 2123 🔗

Somebody mentioned very high levels of atmospheric pollution.

342611 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Steve Martindale, 4, #169 of 2123 🔗

I think they steered it towards obesity which is apparently more prevalent in some BAME communities.

342618 ▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to karenovirus, 9, #170 of 2123 🔗

Not however accompanied by any campaign to make people lose weight, and lockdowns make keeping the pounds off harder.

342710 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Waldorf, 5, #171 of 2123 🔗

If this was all about health; the government would have encouraged us all to eat healthily & sensibly, go out & excercise, get Vitamin D, socialise as well as resurrecting the good “catch it, bin it, kill it” adverts.

With regards to obesity being more prevalent in some BAME communities, I had a colleague who was of Pakistani origin and she admitted that she preferred East Asian & SE Asian food than Indian/Pakistani because it was healthier and much more balanced especially with the mix of meat and vegetables.

342739 ▶▶▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to Bart Simpson, 9, #172 of 2123 🔗

The powers that be have essentially been trying to f**k us up healthwise while pretending to do the opposite – cops harassing people who go on long walks and encouraging people to shop neighbours who take a walk twice a day rather than once, lockdowns, closing gyms, educational establishments, turning us into a nation of depressed couch potatoes with weight problems. Even more than before, at any rate.

342893 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Waldorf, 11, #173 of 2123 🔗

That’s what doesn’t make sense – why are tennis courts, swimming pools, gyms shut? Gym particularly are very useful at this time of the year when its cold, damp and gets dark early.

As for cops harassing people who go on long walks I can only speculate that they have managed to solve all the crime in this country. As I’ve said on Twitter, its odd that with Covid rule breakers they’re as quick as a flash but take 10,000 years when it comes to knife crime, grooming gangs, theft, assault, etc.

343651 ▶▶▶▶ frankfrankly, replying to Waldorf, 2, #174 of 2123 🔗

PHE had millions, a lot of which it delegated to local authorities but health campaigns have been ineffective. We have the second highest obesity rate (after Malta) in Europe. A country like Japan with few deaths has very few people who are obese.

342624 ▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to Steve Martindale, 18, #175 of 2123 🔗

I think the ethnic minorities are more likely to be vitamin D deficient which many believe is a factor in bad outcomes with covid

342675 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Steve Martindale, 24, #176 of 2123 🔗

They have much lower levels of vitamin D likewise the elderly in care homes who spend all their lives indoors. It is so startlingly evident to me why these two groups have been hit the hardest, I find it outrageous that it hasn’t been properly addressed.

342748 ▶▶▶ PompeyJunglist, replying to Bella Donna, 10, #177 of 2123 🔗

Obese and diabetics also more likely to be Vitamin D deficient than the general population.

342784 ▶▶ Indjack, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #178 of 2123 🔗

Hi all, I think one over looked factor is the consumption of vegetable seed oils in culinary traditions of various groups. See here…

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2020/09/sars-cov-2-loves-linoleic-acid.html?m=1

343007 ▶▶▶ Burlington, replying to Indjack, 6, #179 of 2123 🔗

Ivor Cummins book Eat Rich and Live Long is worth a read especially with regard to vegetable seed oils. Olive oil is the way to go with oils!

342938 ▶▶ Bungle, replying to Steve Martindale, 7, #180 of 2123 🔗

Steve, Ivor Cummins had 3 doctors on and one attested to 25 BAME doctors dying in 5 weeks. A message went out to have vitamin D supplements and there has not been 1 death since. Good old Ivor, eh?

343248 ▶▶ Jane G, replying to Steve Martindale, 6, #181 of 2123 🔗

I think Ivor Cummins’ recent podcast interview with retired scientists/doctors on the subject of vitamin D probably nailed this phenomenon; it seemed to satisfactorily explain how a deficiency in this vitamin/hormone was an indicator for susceptibility, and darker-skinned demographics in cold northern climes were almost inevitably unable to synthesize it naturally in our often gloomy climate. No hint of racism, but some would jump on the bandwagon.

343626 ▶▶ frankfrankly, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #182 of 2123 🔗

No secret that multigenerational households spread the virus more easily plus Asian elders’ health is poor compared to those born in this country, who mirror everyone else. Older folk who migrated unfortunately often had TB in their youth and have scarred lungs.

343659 ▶▶ Dorian_Hawkmoon, replying to Steve Martindale, #183 of 2123 🔗

You have to recognise the work exposure profile for ethnic minorities, inner city dense population distribution which coincides with higher infection rates and the comorbidity profile such as diabetes and CHD, lower VitD. All skew the stats.

343877 ▶▶ Jonathan Smith, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #184 of 2123 🔗

I read that the initial impression of BAME vulnerability was a byproduct of population demographics within the M25. As cases rose in the regions and more demographic data came in, the effect disappeared.

342606 Annie, replying to Annie, 11, #185 of 2123 🔗

The bit about using up Pfizer vaccine reminds me of the anecdote about (I think it was) Blenheim Palace. Apparently, each day’s uneaten food always used to be put outside the gates in huge bins for the benefit of the poor. It was not until the 1920s that a low-born but wealthy Duchess suggested that the savoury matter might be put in a different container from the sweet.

Likewise, end of day. Jabbing centre opens door and bins full of expired vaccine are put out for the benefit of the Great Unjabbed And one day, a lowborn jabber suggests that at least the Pfizer should be put in a different container from the AstraZeneca.

342713 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Annie, 6, #186 of 2123 🔗

That was Consuelo Vanderbilt. When she moved in following her marriage in 1895, she was horrified at the food all mixed together and put a stop to the practice instead requiring that everything should be separated and let the poor help themselves.

342608 PatrickF, replying to PatrickF, 21, #187 of 2123 🔗

Alasdair Haimes has abandoned his scepticism and his common sense and embraced fear and propoganda.

342628 ▶▶ PatrickF, replying to PatrickF, #188 of 2123 🔗

Typo: Alistair, not Alasdair.

342691 ▶▶▶ Annie, replying to PatrickF, 8, #189 of 2123 🔗

More properly should be Alas-dear.

342863 ▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to PatrickF, 12, #190 of 2123 🔗

To be honest he was never a real sceptic. I heard him on a podcast with James Delingpole ages ago. He is not even political in the most general sense. He is just a numbers man…all maths and no trousers. Hs scepticism was not borne out of the principle that it is wrong to lock up healthy people to save ill people…which for me is what it is ultimately about. Ironically I teach maths but this is not really about numbers at all its about moral principles.

343109 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Boris Bullshit, 8, #191 of 2123 🔗

For me it’s about not robbing people of their rights. These cannot be removed for any reason. Criminals temporarily lose their freedoms while paying their debt to society, but not even they lose their rights.

343265 ▶▶▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to Nick Rose, 8, #192 of 2123 🔗

I agree absolutely….in some ways we are treated worse than criminals and our crime is…..to want to work and live a normal life. Thats why I could never vote for any of these existing parties again. For me they have abused and violated my rights in a way that can never ever be forgiven.

343132 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Boris Bullshit, 9, #193 of 2123 🔗

Same. I don’t trust the numbers but, ultimately, they make no difference to my opinion. You simply don’t remove the basic human rights of the entire population as a means of disease control, in free societies. This was accepted right up until last year when most of the world decided that following the lead of a ruthless, totalitarian regime was a great idea.

343276 ▶▶▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to Chicot, 5, #194 of 2123 🔗

Exactly and that was why I was opposed to this crap not just from day 1 but from second 1 on the 23rd March 2020. All those who accepted the first lockdown on the basis that ‘we did not know much about it’ (a position I got sick of hearing Talk Radio presenters come out with) are fully complicit in this deadlock situation where they will be very reluctant to ever allow us to come out of this and also it will be their immediate response to any new virus or ‘mutant variation’ of it.

342612 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 85, #195 of 2123 🔗

The movement from being opposed to lockdown restrictions to being in favour of them strikes me as so strange that I find it difficult to believe it is the result of an impartial evaluation of evidence. Rather, attention to the evidence would be likely to move someone in the opposite direction (Julia Hartley Brewer, for example). Whatever the difficulties the NHS may have, lockdowns are clearly not the solution. At best such measures may push the problem into the future, but even then at the cost of creating many more health problems, resulting in an NHS that is even less fit for purpose.

The NHS problem is not the virus. It is a lack of capacity. This problem did not suddenly happen last year. It has been a deliberate policy choice that goes back decades. However, to stay with recent history, back in 2016 Exercise Cygnus concluded that in the event of a pandemic the NHS would be overwhelmed. The obvious policy response to that conclusion would have been to have increased NHS capacity. The government decided not to do so. Even last year, when Boris Johnson was introducing the lockdown to flatten the sombrero, the government did not use the time to enhance NHS capacity, rather it engaged in a piece of political theatre: the building of the Nightingale hospitals. And here we are, a year after the government could see the coming pandemic, and the NHS has less capacity, not more.

The current cries that the NHS is about to be overwhelmed are no more than the previous iterations of this trope. They provide emotive rhetorical cover for political decisions: decisions that are irrational, irresponsible, incompetent and counter-productive when assessed against the criterion of saving lives. Lockdowns kill.

The government’s responses to the virus have caused, are causing, and will continue to cause more harm than the virus ever could. But it is even worse that this because government policies are wilfully killing people. Whereas, nature is amoral, government policy decisions are always and necessarily moral choices. Those in favour of lockdown policies, notwithstanding the if it saves just one life rhetoric, are supporting policies to kill people, and to do so in massive numbers.

342619 ▶▶ Andrea Salford, replying to Steve Hayes, 27, #196 of 2123 🔗

So so true, these problems manifest every year. Here’s the NHS Providers briefing: The real story of winter 2018/19

https://nhsproviders.org/media/644175/the-real-story-of-winter-2018_19.pdf

They highlight that last year Brexit fighting and the General Election kept them off the front page, but the usual winter overload/crises occurred. All the warnings are there yet nothing has been done. Instead their NHS bureaucratic incompetence is to be solved by locking us up!!!

342620 ▶▶ Waldorf, replying to Steve Hayes, 14, #197 of 2123 🔗

Timidity. There has been an increasing barrage of hostility to people who question the BS, and some people will cave.

342634 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Waldorf, 33, #198 of 2123 🔗

At Boris Johnson’s press briefing yesterday, Simon Stevens was particularly vicious in his attack on people taking pictures of empty hospital corridors. He made no attempt to dispute the authenticity of the pictures. He just attacked people who have put them on the Internet as dangerous and he made a point of painting an emotive picture of a nurse who has bravely struggled through a twelve hour shift battling the dreaded virus. Posting such pictures was an insult to her.

342646 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Steve Hayes, 24, #199 of 2123 🔗

If I recall correctly, it has been stated that the 2017/18 winter was one of the worst for the NHS being “overwhelmed”. I remember that time with searing precision because it was the time my poor mum was subjected to NHS ‘care’. At no time – in the hospital she was in – did I see any evidence of stressed-out staff or the hospital overflowing with patients. In fact, most of the time, it looked quite empty.

342647 ▶▶▶▶ Andrea Salford, replying to Steve Hayes, 14, #200 of 2123 🔗

As sceptics we naturally prefer fact over fiction and emotional hyperbole. Unfortunately we have to swallow our disgust and use the same approach to get our message across – it’s not as if we need to invent or exaggerate the examples of lockdown suffering. Not that we have a MSM platform to use sadly.

342870 ▶▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to Waldorf, 3, #201 of 2123 🔗

Especially those like Hames who have no serious political philosophy whether of Left or Right.

343039 ▶▶ Burlington, replying to Steve Hayes, 9, #202 of 2123 🔗

Is it not also due to the testing regime that dictates everyone within a “ten mile” radius of a positive test case must lock themselves away for ten days? Thus heavily depleting the availability of front-line staff. They have shot themselves in the foot and are now wondering why the foot hurts so badly.

343236 ▶▶▶ Sceptical Steve, replying to Burlington, 9, #203 of 2123 🔗

The CEO of the NHS hospital trust where my wife works recently outlined a change in the rules for staff self-isolation. From mid-December (presumably as the NHS finally recognised that it was going to be up shit creek in January), staff have been told that, in order to go for their proscribed period of self-isolation at home, they have to provide evidence of contact with a confirmed Covid-19 infected person, at a time when they have not been protected by the approved PPE.(Obviously, there could be competence/disciplinary implications if they admit this.) It seems to be a belated attempt to end a very popular scam for the staff…

343116 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Steve Hayes, 19, #204 of 2123 🔗

No excuses for lockdown. Not ever. Under any circumstances.

342613 danny, replying to danny, 65, #205 of 2123 🔗

A little disappointing to see the choice of articles on this site today. Both basically suggesting a major problem. We have enough of that with every single newspaper and TV channel in then country with the possible exception of talk radio thanks.
Yes Covid can kill the vulnerable, yes into can add to the strains on a winter NHS, but the whole point is, the response is utterly disproportionate and most importantly, taking more lives than it saves whilst at the same time terrorising a nation with unnecessary and cruel measures such as masks, banning families and closing schools.

342622 ▶▶ Andrea Salford, replying to danny, 26, #206 of 2123 🔗

Exactly. Prepare for the NHS to be overwhelmed by the greater demands of dealing with the lockdown victims

342629 ▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to Andrea Salford, 8, #207 of 2123 🔗

It won’t be given the same attention by the MSM. So Sceptics need to.

342718 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to danny, 17, #208 of 2123 🔗

I always thought that the NHS was stupid to go along with this. Did no one ever raised the point that if they were to be overwhelmed, it would be from those who had untreated illnesses, mental health issues, victims of domestic violence and substance abuse?

And don’t forget mask wearing that can lead to a whole host of problems – chest infections, bacterial pneumonia, dermatitis, impetigo and a raft of psychological problems.

342807 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Bart Simpson, 9, #209 of 2123 🔗

Being constantly on the edge of collapse is how the apparatchiks of NHS/Moloch maintain their funding and power.

343091 ▶▶▶ Dodderydude, replying to Bart Simpson, 12, #210 of 2123 🔗

And my own cynical view is also that, because of the fear propaganda, many people are phoning the emergency services if they have the slightest hint of a cough or shortness of breath or panic and it suits the government’s agenda to take as many of these people to hospital as possible. They are then checked over and ‘kept in for observation’ (adding to the hospitalisation numbers) just in case it is the ‘dreaded’ covid whereas a year ago, if they had even been seen in hospital, they would have been sent home and told to take a paracetamol.

343197 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Dodderydude, 10, #211 of 2123 🔗

Exactly. Whatever happened to the old days when the doctor simply says: “I can’t do anything for you. Go home, rest, take plenty of liquids, take nourishing meals and paracetamol every 4 hours?”

All sense of proportion and common sense has gone out of the window.

343298 ▶▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #212 of 2123 🔗

I think those masks are already causing dire health problems, gauging from how listless many of the local shop staff are, they have a real sicky look about them. The masks have also caused absolute foul breath in some.

344124 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to FarBeyondDrivenDevil, 1, #213 of 2123 🔗

Hence why I’m seeing more and more supermarket staff claiming exemption.

344196 ▶▶▶▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to Bart Simpson, #214 of 2123 🔗

I wish more would on both sides, its horrible to watch people suffer in the damn things.

342878 ▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to danny, 2, #215 of 2123 🔗

Agree entirely Danny.

343122 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to danny, 14, #216 of 2123 🔗

The inhumanity of lockdown. Not only a stupid policy, not only a failed policy, but also a crime against humanity. No excuse for it and no forgiveness for it, ever.

343309 ▶▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #217 of 2123 🔗

Agree Nick, totally inhumane.

343244 ▶▶ Will, replying to danny, 3, #218 of 2123 🔗

The article from the doctor is enough to tell me this is extremely serious. I was in hospital on Wednesday, for half a day and the panic was palpable. Lockdown, test and trace, face nappies has caused this shit but shit it is. We do ourselves no favours in terms of making that point, down the line, by denying that this shit, unlike anything we have actually seen so far, is real. They have cried wolf and cried wolf but now the wolf is at the door. Lockdown won’t make the situation better, only nature will do that, but I don’t think lockdown can make it any worse as long as people are going to take the snake oil, which I think they are.

342617 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 5, #219 of 2123 🔗

It is, of course, The Scots Greys, pictured at Waterloo charging in a brilliant action by The Union Brigade.

The Brigade took 50% casualties throughout that day in capturing two Eagles.

The gallant 600, at Balaclava, in the Crimea, took 40% casualties in one charge, seven Victoria Crosses, and then back home for tea on his steam yacht, Dryad, moored in Balaklava harbour, for their commander, Lord Cardigan.

342625 ▶▶ Waldorf, replying to Tim Bidie, 4, #220 of 2123 🔗

There was some probably unfounded speculation that Cardigan did not take part in the Charge at all. He certainly did not bother to look after his surviving troops after it ended.

342665 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Waldorf, 5, #221 of 2123 🔗

‘“I’ve been in a serious affair, and my brigade is almost destroyed. My opinion is that Lt General (Lord Lucan) ought to have had the moral courage to disobey the order…I led the attack…the shower of grape shot and round shot for ¾ of a mile was awful…almost every officer, but myself was either killed, or wounded, and how I escaped, being in front, and more exposed than anyone is a fearful miracle and I am most grateful to the Almighty for such an intervention of Divine Providence. I considered it certain death, but led straight and no man flinched…”

Letter to his brother-in-law, Lord Howe, three days after the battle

In his defence, he was 56 years old and a sick man at the time; had remonstrated with Lucan at the idiocy of the orders.

Neither he, nor Lucan or, certainly, Raglan, should have been in command of anything at that stage. The Cardwell reforms eventually followed on from The Crimean War.

Let us hope for something similar for the NHS after this far greater debacle

Cardigan’s splendid charger, Ronald, also survived the action. His head may still, today, gaze quizzically out at the world from its position in the hall of Deene Park, Lord Cardigan’s country house

342680 ▶▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to Tim Bidie, 4, #222 of 2123 🔗

The purchase of officers’ commissions was gradually ended after the war. It had been seen as conducive to social stability but could result in well-heeled fools commanding troops.

342690 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Waldorf, 2, #223 of 2123 🔗

The Crimean War is an interesting parallel of command incompetence similar to this present medical weird out

In this context, interesting to speculate on how membership of SAGE is obtained; not by money, certainly, but, just as certainly, by some other currency; the results a great deal more damaging than any nineteenth century military action.

Reform of the NHS is required, forthwith:

https://iea.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Niemietz-NHS-Interactive.pdf

342723 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to Tim Bidie, 3, #224 of 2123 🔗

Supposedly, these people are experts – science-led etc. If there is corruption it is of a different kind from the sale of officers’ commissions.

342820 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Waldorf, 7, #225 of 2123 🔗

The Cardigan phenomenon might well be endemic in the NHS. A well heeled middle class person has a rather middlingly- thick child. Said child goes to university to get a “Something Studies” degree then becomes an NHS “manager”. Not quite the same as buying a commission but similarly well heeled opportunism. The NHS is stuffed with admin people whose main strength is walking around with a lanyard.

342876 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ mj, replying to thinkaboutit, 2, #226 of 2123 🔗

or they become a politician.
one thing about crimea. Out of that came the best medical statistician this country has ever seen .
Here’s question for you.. in this context who was Athena? . Answers on a postcard to Neil Ferguson, Imperial College.

343134 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to thinkaboutit, 1, #227 of 2123 🔗

The entire public sector management is suspect. Like I said, it hasn’t changed much since Crimea.

342871 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Waldorf, 1, #228 of 2123 🔗

The sale of Officers commissions was not in fact corrupt, supported by the Duke of Wellington

‘The late illustrious Duke of Wellington had left a memorandum upon the subject, in which he seemed to look upon the system of purchase somewhat in the light of a political institution, and defended it on the ground that it brought into the army men of the higher classes who had a stake in the country, and were not likely to take part against its authorities or its institutions.’

https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1856/mar/04/sale-of-commissions-in-the-army

Appointments to SAGE are not financially corrupt either but certainly seem to suffer from that other unhealthy corruption: ‘cronyism’

343365 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #229 of 2123 🔗

Wellington defended it as conducive to social stability. He was a member of the Protestant Ascendancy in Ireland and that moulded his attitudes. I think Cromwell also cast a long shadow. Wellington died in 1852 – had he lived to witness the Crimean War perhaps it would have changed his attitudes.
Politics certainly played a part. I believe it was impossible to purchase naval officer rank in the same way in the Royal Navy, but naval officers had to know how to operate a ship and were not allowed to be moneyed incompetents. Moreover the RN was unlikely to march on Whitehall but the army might.

342886 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Waldorf, 1, #230 of 2123 🔗

Influence and career peddling by a back scratching in-gang

343287 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sceptical Steve, replying to Waldorf, 2, #231 of 2123 🔗

So much of the traditional discipline of scientific thought has been undermined by political or commercial pressures. As Toby mentions in his article today, so much of the evidence presented to SAGE, NERVTAG etc. has never even been subject to peer review. Even if it had, it’s obvious that the authors would ensure that the peer reviewers would all be selected from the same “Band of Brothers” which is, essentially, a good description of SAGE itself.

342778 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Annie, replying to Tim Bidie, 9, #232 of 2123 🔗

True, but the best parallel to lockdown strategy is the war in the trenches 1914-17.Big offensive after big offensive turned out a bloody failure. The reaction: the last offensive wasn’t big enough, let’s have a bigger one, the next one will be so big it will work. But it doesn’t, and men bleed, but not the men who planned the offensive.

C. S. Forester likened this to a bunch of ignorant savages trying to get a screw out of a piece of wood. They hit it harder and harder and harder, to no effect. It occurs to none of them to try unscrewing it.

342882 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Annie, 1, #233 of 2123 🔗

As somebody posted here the other day, third lockdown is like the third Battle of Ypres.

343067 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Burlington, replying to Annie, 2, #234 of 2123 🔗

Yes the phrase “Lions led by donkeys” springs to mind.

343795 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Annie, replying to Burlington, 1, #235 of 2123 🔗

Except it’s now sheep led by donkeys.

343126 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Waldorf, 1, #236 of 2123 🔗

Not much has changed, tbh

343841 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Waldorf, #237 of 2123 🔗

It was a convenient place to dump your younger sons who weren’t going to inherit your estate.

342621 PatrickF, replying to PatrickF, 4, #238 of 2123 🔗

Are GP’s surgeries being paid a flate rate per vaccine jab?
Will that incentivise them to work at weekends?

342636 ▶▶ Andrea Salford, replying to PatrickF, 3, #239 of 2123 🔗

Probably and
Did I see something about not working Sundays? Or was that just for before Christmas after Boris had promised 7 days a week for the rollout?

342638 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to PatrickF, 3, #240 of 2123 🔗

Wonder if that’s why they’ve suddenly decided to widen the age range for flu jabs …

342645 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to PatrickF, 5, #241 of 2123 🔗

Yes, £10.00 more than for the annual flu jab X2 = nearly £50.00 per vaccinee.

342654 ▶▶▶ Andrea Salford, replying to karenovirus, 5, #242 of 2123 🔗

And it seems they don’t want to share it with pharmacists. Nooooo that would be too logical.

342662 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to PatrickF, 2, #243 of 2123 🔗

I think it’s 15 pounds for every shot.

342709 ▶▶ Biker, replying to PatrickF, 8, #244 of 2123 🔗

They won’t need to work weekends because once the couple of million cowards and hypochondriacs are injected no one in their right mind is gonna take the vaseline. Then what will these cunts do i wonder?

343304 ▶▶ Sceptical Steve, replying to PatrickF, 2, #245 of 2123 🔗

Probably not, but it will certainly encourage them to vaccinate people from lower risk groups at the expense of the vulnerable, hence the stories today about the Pfizer vaccine being given to random NHS administrative staff to avoid it going to waste.

342627 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 41, #246 of 2123 🔗

So Toby, “Disgraced” President of the United States is it? Buying into the propaganda then without actually delving into the details. The illegality is still there. Maybe take some time and realise that the crowds who were in DC were there because they can see the steal. 4 states by default have enabled voter laws outside their consitutional remit. And that’s not even accounting for the other fraud practices

As he for Alastair Haines he is weak. When the facts change I change my mind. Well Alastair facts in science are something you can audit and they still come up the same. It all depends on how you measure stuff.

The problem is that nothing has changed, the data upon which this whole edifice is built is like sand. As John Lee pointed out, you don’t know if anyone labelled as Covid has Covid or if that is the major factor in their illness of death.

There’s a simple test: looking at mortality if you did not know or have heard about Covid what would you think about the deaths this winter as different? Of course you wouldn’t.

In fact if there was no response to the panic of “Covid-19” the spike in March April wouldn’t be there because you wouldn’t have reduced beds, changed care pathways and sent older people with general respiratory problems back into care homes. You may have had a hump but then the start of the flu season was weak as was 2019.

The sad fact is that people are looking around for extraordinary reasons when the real reasons are mundane and non-sexy.

But in doing so taking a wrecking ball to the economy and society

342660 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to mhcp, 14, #247 of 2123 🔗

In all probability he was got at. It seems to happen quite a lot. The Establishment send out the attack dogs and some people buckle under aggression. Such a shame.

342676 ▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to Bella Donna, 10, #248 of 2123 🔗

There was that prick Hopson yesterday on Talk Radio. He was seen off appropriately.

343311 ▶▶▶▶ Sceptical Steve, replying to Waldorf, 6, #249 of 2123 🔗

Yes, JHB gave him every encouragement to complain to Ofcom if he felt that Talk Radio’s coverage was biased or factually incorrect, but he was far too intesterest in trying to belittle her. The man is a turd.

342727 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #250 of 2123 🔗

He unfortunately isn’t a Man from Missouri. You simply ask how was that measured? Show me.

342896 ▶▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to Bella Donna, 9, #251 of 2123 🔗

Its happened in every conflict in history…some people are just weaker than others. I was subject to verbal attack the other day by 2 maskoids at the same time who did not even know each other. I know some people would have buckled under that but I did not. Its everyone’s choice.

342631 CivilianNotCovidian, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 78, #252 of 2123 🔗

Excellent post by Toby today (happy new year, everyone), missing one vital point: that the very practices of isolation (including lockdown), distancing and mask wearing severely DAMAGE the human immune system, thereby making it MORE likely that people cannot fight off seasonal viruses, the SARS-Cov-2 one in all its strains included. The human body has an excellent immune system. To function well, even in elderly and vulnerable people (in all but the medically immunosuppressed), it needs a regular work out. In other words it needs to be continually exposed to bacteria and viruses to keep it flexing its muscles, otherwise it will atrophy. When you stop people mixing – especially when you keep the young away from the old (the young expose the old to mild viruses in little loads) – you damage a normal function in their body. Maybe you even make them vaccine dependent (though I’m not a conspiracist so I’m not suggesting this is being done deliberately). I’ve never worn a mask, when lockdowns happen I go out every day and handle everything I can in supermarkets, I hug whomever will let me hug them, and I even licked the grass in Hyde Park once to prove a point to someone. Anything to expose my body to a bit of bacteria to keep my immune system in check. I breathe uninhibited at all times… another essential part of staying healthy. Masks do far more harm than good… common sense will tell you that. I go outside for as long as possible every day and breathe fresh air. Anyway. I’m going to continue doing everything I can to stay healthy and keep my immune system strong. That’s me, bravely using my best judgement and knowledge, just doing my part to PROTECT THE NHS!

342637 ▶▶ PatrickF, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 42, #253 of 2123 🔗

I agree. If I’m healthy, I don’t need to bother the NHS. I did need to bother them in April 2020 when I spent a day in hospital after a series of violent panic attacks, caused by Lockdown anxieties.

342644 ▶▶▶ CivilianNotCovidian, replying to PatrickF, 48, #254 of 2123 🔗

Very good point! The mental health crisis caused by the barbaric practice of isolating people is far more catastrophic. It’s taking perfectly healthy people out of action. I’m emotionally supporting many people suffering from severe panic attacks, some having suicidal thoughts. These were mental strong, healthy people before this war on humanity. I’ve had a lot of experience in trauma release (from a practical and academic perspective). I feel very fortunate that I understand how to deal with trauma (release it!) But most people don’t, are not being given help, and are suffering extraordinary stress. STRESS KILLS PEOPLE. Stay strong. Your community here supports you!

342813 ▶▶▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 5, #255 of 2123 🔗

Again you’ve hit the nail on the head.

343187 ▶▶▶▶ Crystal Decanter, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 3, #256 of 2123 🔗

Underrated post

342643 ▶▶ CaptainG, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 21, #257 of 2123 🔗

Lol why have lockdowns when you could just have everyone go and lick the grass 😉 great comment-
but I strongly suspect that Xi Jinping’s lockdowns are indeed carefully calibrated to inflict maximum damage to the immune systems, ensuring the pandemic is never recovered from. All measures currently favoured -lockdowns, distancing, masks- fly in the face of all accepted good medical practice and general life advice prior to March 2020. And the monomaniacal focus on lockdowns and vaccines is to the exclusion of everything that might boost the immune system, as you say. This has been refined through experiments with the Uighur I’m afraid.
keeping everyone isolated will have catastrophic and tragic health impacts even more than we have now down the line.

342652 ▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to CaptainG, 33, #258 of 2123 🔗

Nope. “Our” governments did this to us and chose to. Whatever the disputed origins of this thing are, governments outside of China could have behaved differently. It is also noticeable that if they imitate the Chinese it is only the draconian stuff they imitate. When the Chinese loosen up, they do not follow suit.

342659 ▶▶ FrankiiB, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 16, #259 of 2123 🔗

Excellent point. I am also convinced lockdowns harm the immune system and the longer they go on, the worse the damage becomes. I have tried to find evidence to support this, but most of it is vague, probably because it would take years of research post lockdown to analyse.

342787 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to FrankiiB, 8, #260 of 2123 🔗

There’s no evidence they save lives (even that mythical ‘one’) but plenty of evidence that they; increase relative mobility of the vulnerable, slow onset of herd immunity, slow the evolution of less harmful strains, increase spread by concentrating people.

342664 ▶▶ Liewe, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 23, #261 of 2123 🔗

Hear hear! Another point is that keeping people isolated will FORCE a virus to evolve to become more infectious – it has to do this to keep on spreading.

342674 ▶▶▶ CivilianNotCovidian, replying to Liewe, 36, #262 of 2123 🔗

Yes, this is exactly what Patrick Vallance said in March when I held out hope that the UK would stand alone in doing the sensible thing and accepting “herd immunity” (the original kind led by the human immune system) would ensure the virus eventually diminished in severity, as it has with all other coronaviruses. Sadly herd stupidity took hold, driven by online hysteria (“you can’t just LET PEOPLE DIE”), and we ended up ruled by mob mentality… MANY MORE will die as a result. But hindsight is 2020, right?!

342792 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 4, #263 of 2123 🔗

Terror of Piers Morgan screeching at them on telly played a major part I think. The hapless Whately was repeatedly thrown against him like the 1/5th North Staffordshire Regiment against the Hohenzollern Redoubt at Loos (with similar results).

343195 ▶▶▶ Crystal Decanter, replying to Liewe, 6, #264 of 2123 🔗

Exactly – they are forcing all the viruses to find new ways to get at us.
Coupled with the rusty immune systems of the work from home crowd and we are looking at a cataclysm

343318 ▶▶▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to Crystal Decanter, 5, #265 of 2123 🔗

People need to mingle and exchange germs to actually charge their immune systems. Social distancing is actually counter productive.

342810 ▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 16, #266 of 2123 🔗

Completely agree, we are not biologically attuned to this way of life. We have immune systems for a reason. I’m much the same as you; never wear a mask, am not over hygienic (e.g. incessant hand sanitizing) and have a job working outdoors in a dirty yard where we all mingle. My immune system is in top form and its staying that way regardless of what those twats in parliament say/do or try to push on me.

342633 PatrickF, 12, #267 of 2123 🔗

The new normal: New virus, lockdown, vaccine, repeat.

342648 JustMe, 35, #268 of 2123 🔗

The most powerful figure is that the number of people who died from COVID-19 in English hospitals in 2020 who were under 60 with no underlying health conditions was 388.

Tell this to most people and their eyes go wide.

This should be on the top of the page, every day, updated for 2021.

342655 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 28, #269 of 2123 🔗

When people are being arrested in their own homes for uploading pictures of empty hospitals, if the Establishment are willing to destroy people’s credibility and livelihoods they are capable of anything.

342714 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Bella Donna, 8, #270 of 2123 🔗

Well the “establishment” are all bought with money or child abuse, both probably. These people are child murderers wither they do it for pleasure or sell weapons they know will be dropped on innocent people they don’t give a fuck. Why would they care about the British people? Now we are one planet Britain can go fuck itself and bought and paid for child abusers in Parliament are just doing the bidding of the evil shadow government.

344089 ▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #271 of 2123 🔗

Disgusting what has happened in Scotland. Just seen it on Mahyer Tousi’s channel. Police actually turning up to a woman’s home to investigate a gathering after a neighbour snitched that they’d seen someone going in. Turns out it was the woman’s daughter who’d just been released from a hospital operation (or something along those lines) and I think she was living there but the police just came in, caused a scene and arrested the woman and I presume her partner. Horrible Nazi behaviour.

342656 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 76, #272 of 2123 🔗

I think we should spend less time talking about whether the NHS is overwhelmed or not and spend more time talking about whether lockdown should even be in the toolkit of options for dealing with this.

I don’t see lockdowns are ever justified – surely we would need a higher burden of proof than the NHS is having a wobble at least. Locking people in their homes is just not an appropriate way to manage demand in the NHS.

342667 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to steve_w, 45, #273 of 2123 🔗

Indeed. Just think how much the NHS could have been beefed up with the money that has already been spaffed on this shitshow. But then, it occurs to me that unlimited funds could be thrown at the NHS and it would still not be able to cope. Problem is it is woefully badly managed and unless it undergoes fundamental reform, it will ever be thus.

342673 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to kh1485, 24, #274 of 2123 🔗

There are lots of improvements that could probably be made to the NHS and the democratically elected government can enact them. Just because it hasn’t doesn’t mean we should all be locked in our homes. It doesn’t work on a fundamental rights basis (my rights are not contingent on the current pressure on a government service) and certainly doesn’t on a cost/benefit analysis as you allude to.

342682 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to steve_w, 21, #275 of 2123 🔗

When I said “it will ever be thus”, I meant they will continue to peddle the notion that it can’t cope no matter how much money they throw at it. I wasn’t suggesting that until they are – as they see it – sufficiently funded, lockdowns are an appropriate action – bloody hell, far from it. I am probably one of the most vociferous anti-lockdowners you could meet, and not just because, with each passing day, my business is being wilfully destroyed, but because I believe in liberty and freedom.

342685 ▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to kh1485, 2, #276 of 2123 🔗

I’m not disagreeing with you – more trying to reinforce the point!

342687 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to steve_w, 2, #277 of 2123 🔗

Apologies, been up since before cock crow and mis-read!

342693 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to kh1485, 6, #278 of 2123 🔗

🙂 I have to get up at 5am to work before homeschooling then go back to work. But I am one of the lucky ones in that my job is safe til summer. I really have no complaints.

342689 ▶▶▶ Annie, replying to kh1485, 20, #279 of 2123 🔗

Also, it faces unlimited demand. Its very successes ensure its ultimate failure.The more people it keeps alive long after Nature has called time on them, the more expensive their care becomes. And the more sophisticated drugs become, the more they cost. The NHS will NEVER be able to ‘cope’.

342702 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Annie, 13, #280 of 2123 🔗

Further, people do not look after their own health: they look to the NHS as a safety net and take no personal responsibility. Unhealthy lifestyles contribute to chronic illness but then unhealthy lifestyles have been actively promoted by bodies such as PHE and others (who, are often financed by the food industry. The 5-a-day fruit and veg thing was actually a marketing campaign based on no evidence whatsoever). These diets are anything but healthy, i.e. the demonisation of fat, promotion of high carbohydrate diets and the denial that alcohol is a major contributor to many diseases (not a popular view, but it is true). If the NHS wanted to cut disease, they could do so easily. We now have a National Disease Management Service.

342776 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Annie, 4, #281 of 2123 🔗

Having seen how NHS/Moloch keeps the elderly alive I shall be taking the Laphroaig/Swale option when the time comes. Timing and courage critical of course, let’s hope they don’t fail me.

343326 ▶▶▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to Annie, #282 of 2123 🔗

Good points!

342911 ▶▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to kh1485, 12, #283 of 2123 🔗

Yes for decades we have been told that the way to help the NHS was ever increasing sums of taxpayers money. Now thats no longer enough. Now the taxpayers have to be put under house arrest too!

343327 ▶▶▶ Sceptical Steve, replying to kh1485, 3, #284 of 2123 🔗

At a very early point in the pandemic, Rishi Sunak wrote off the historic debts of the various NHS trusts, thereby throwing away any hope that they could be used in the future as a lever to encourage reform. As a mechanism, it was hopelessly naive – any new money should surely have been ring-fenced to improve current performance?

342672 ▶▶ SallyM, replying to steve_w, 30, #285 of 2123 🔗

Exactly. This site has become way too bogged down in details about hospital admissions, cases and testing. We should be opposing lockdowns on basic principles of public health and human rights and the disruptive effects of lockdowns on societal functioning, which should be preserved to the maximum possible extent in an epidemic.

342677 ▶▶ JaneHarry, replying to steve_w, 38, #286 of 2123 🔗

EXACTLY!! if we were to send the entire population to the gas chambers on their 60th or 50th birthday, along with everyone who has a chronic or terminal condition, it would do wonders for relieving the pressure on the NHS. the ends do not justify the means. if the NHS can not cope when people get sick then this means the NHS is useless and not fit for purpose, and it’s the NHS that needs to go, not the people. this deification of the sacred NHS has to stop

342904 ▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to steve_w, 17, #287 of 2123 🔗

This is the point…I am sick of hearing about the bloody NHS as if its god. When I was a young adult you hardly ever heard about it…now its a national obsession…thats partly why we are in this mess.

343330 ▶▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to Boris Bullshit, 9, #288 of 2123 🔗

Exactly, the NHS has been Deified. The clapping, symbolic mask wearing and reciting “stay at home” diktats are just like religious rituals. Covid 19 is now a cult.

344020 ▶▶▶▶ Ken Garoo, replying to FarBeyondDrivenDevil, 3, #289 of 2123 🔗

The plan is working – how to destroy the NHS as a symbol, so it can be piratised for US-style operations?

344095 ▶▶▶▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to Ken Garoo, #290 of 2123 🔗

I think the NHS needs to be scrapped completely and replaced by a more continental style medical service which is more fair, more efficient and better run. The NHS has become the medical equivalent of British Leyland.

342666 Andrea Salford, replying to Andrea Salford, 29, #291 of 2123 🔗

‘As the now disgraced President of the United States said, the cure is worse than the disease’

Tut tut Toby, wait until Delingpole sees that.

Also not necessary or appropriate. You insult the millions of Americans that voted for him thus falling into the Maitless approach.

342704 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Andrea Salford, 38, #292 of 2123 🔗

Trump is a hero. America has been stolen from the people by the same people that brought the world the middle east wars, 9/11 and all these fake muslim terrorists. I predict a rise in war, terrorism and more lockdowns from these clowns. It’s a crazy world when Trump stood alone as the saviour of the West. I say this without any irony nor am i kidding. Anyone denying the election wasn’t stolen is either lying and being paid to say that or so fucking stupid they’re probably a socialist. We are in for a dark night of the soul under these people

342722 ▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Biker, 3, #293 of 2123 🔗

Socialism distancing, as one wit – JP Sears – recently put it.

342772 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Biker, 5, #294 of 2123 🔗

Indeed, warp speed to restart all the profitable worldwide conflicts increasing when Proconsul Harris kowtows to Emperor Xi. The peace agreements in Middle East would be enough to secure anyone else’s legacy let alone a Peace Prize or two.

343384 ▶▶▶▶ Burlington, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 5, #295 of 2123 🔗

It wont be Proconsul Harris for very long. Biden will be deemed to be unable to fulfil the office of President on medical grounds possibly dementia or he will trip over his dog and break his neck. then it will be President Harris!
This w hole presidential election farce has been pre-planned, pre-arranged and pre-paid. Welcome to the United Socialist States of America.

344687 ▶▶▶▶▶ ladynorwood, replying to Burlington, #296 of 2123 🔗

With Hilary as VP…. She finally gets what she wants (almost) and the leftards celebrate

342816 ▶▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to Biker, 7, #297 of 2123 🔗

Trump was robbed

342978 ▶▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to Biker, 5, #298 of 2123 🔗

You dont even have to be a Trump supporter to see that election as corruption on a giant scale. Toby will never see that though …he is terrified of losing his modest foot in the door of the mainstream media. James does not call him a cuck for nothing.

342993 ▶▶▶▶ Andrea Salford, replying to Boris Bullshit, 8, #299 of 2123 🔗

Toby should just have left the ‘disgraced’ out. He has enough work on his hands with Free Speech and Lockdown.

342983 ▶▶▶ Andrea Salford, replying to Biker, 6, #300 of 2123 🔗

I agree. It jarred with me to see him include that ‘disgraced’ and why use it when the statement he is referencing is 100% what this site stands for?

What has happened in USA now is terrifying, many feel as we do about Trump and the massive election fraud but you’ll never see it in the bent MSM. How do we make our voices heard?

343681 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Biker, 3, #301 of 2123 🔗

Agree, it was a stolen election.

Unless something happens in the next 2 weeks to overturn what went on yesterday then we’re all doomed.

Is this a cunning plan to get all the enemies in the open including his allies who were stabbing Trump in the back the whole time he was President so they can be arrested as they have shown themselves openly to be enemies of the people or is this the end for good and we’re all screwed?

343982 ▶▶▶▶ Richy_m_99, replying to Awkward Git, #302 of 2123 🔗

I was reading a piece the day of the Georgia reruns, with one Dem canvasser claiming that their office had signed up 125,000 new supporter, most of whom would be using absentee votes, becuase they don’t have to produce ID at polling stations. They took a lesson from Labour about postal votes and how the minority community leaders love them.for the ability to influence block voting.

342720 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Andrea Salford, 6, #303 of 2123 🔗

Disgraced only in the eyes of the mass media – the legacy mass media. If I was disgraced in their eyes, I would consider it an honour.

342755 ▶▶ Bungle, replying to Andrea Salford, 5, #304 of 2123 🔗

I’m a Socialist (for the many, not the few) and agree totally.

342976 ▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to Andrea Salford, 2, #305 of 2123 🔗

I think its going to be an even more bitter London Calling next tuesday…cant wait!

342668 FrankiiB, replying to FrankiiB, 7, #306 of 2123 🔗

How close to Herd immunity?

Looking at the governments ‘cases’ map, zoomed in to local level, you can see pockets of blue in inner London, as well as some in Birmingham. These appear to be more cosmopolitan areas, perhaps areas which had experienced more cases early on and might now be close to Herd.

I have also read that around 60% of school children may have already developed immunity. This suggests they are very close to herd and closing schools a completely useless strategy.

However, apparently we don’t do any measurements about herd, T cells etc these days, so we’ve no idea. I could be wrong. If anyone has any data on this please share your.
.

342678 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to FrankiiB, 10, #307 of 2123 🔗

I think we are at herd immunity. The progression of the virus is as you would expect for a normal seasonal winter virus that is endemic. Zoe shows 70,000 new infections per day and we would expect 400,000 infections per day of all cold/flu variants. It is just one (a major one) of the 200 or so respiratory illnesses that go round in winter and kill 40,000 extra (comparing Dec-Feb to other months) every year.

342671 Andrea Salford, replying to Andrea Salford, 61, #308 of 2123 🔗

Lockdowns are an emergency measure for a deadly pandemic. Not a tool for propping up the NHS. This isn’t a deadly pandemic or national emergency therefore lockdowns are being imposed illegally by our government.

End of.

342806 ▶▶ SallyM, replying to Andrea Salford, 23, #309 of 2123 🔗

Prior to this year there was a scientific consensus that lockdowns should never be used as a pandemic control measure. The deadliness of a pathogen is not really relevant. In fact, the more deadly the pathogen the more likely an epidemic is to die out quickly without intervention.

Lockdowns should go back into the textbook as something never to be done.

343694 ▶▶▶ ChrisW, replying to SallyM, 4, #310 of 2123 🔗

This is what worries me the most. If we don’t win the argument against lockdowns then they’ll be used again in the future.

342821 ▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to Andrea Salford, 8, #311 of 2123 🔗

The truth is our braindead politicians have simply no idea on how to run things, they are like headless chickens. None of these measures make any sense whatsoever.

343026 ▶▶▶ Andrea Salford, replying to FarBeyondDrivenDevil, 8, #312 of 2123 🔗

They only make sense in the narrative of ‘The Great Reset’ and if they don’t want us to believe in that ‘crazy tin-foil hat conspiracy’ theory then they need to stop this shit show down and fast.

343342 ▶▶▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to Andrea Salford, 10, #313 of 2123 🔗

I wouldn’t worry about any “great reset”. What appears to be happening is incapable & incompetent governments around the world are acting in groupthink with covid-19 (probably inspired by the lockdown tactics used in China) and a few nefarious chancers like those in the WEF are hoping to use the ongoing fiasco to push their own agenda. Much of it will eventually fail because of human nature and the fact humanity is too diverse be be run as a technocracy. I’m not a conspiracy theorist anyhow, just a realist.

343141 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Andrea Salford, 12, #314 of 2123 🔗

Lockdowns are not needed. Ever. In a truly deadly pandemic, there would be absolutely no need for the government to mandate people staying at home as people would do this anyway.

343150 ▶▶▶ Jo, replying to Chicot, 3, #315 of 2123 🔗

This is so true.

344118 ▶▶ Ken Garoo, replying to Andrea Salford, 1, #316 of 2123 🔗

SAGE minutes ceased referring to a pandemic probably May/June time. It has been called an epidemic consistently since then.

342679 Laurence, replying to Laurence, 74, #317 of 2123 🔗

Let’s put some reality back in this.

Firstly, I have gone through the NHS stats produced yesterday morning and, as at 3 January 2021, there were 1,074 patients in critical care in London. That compares to 741 on the same day 3 years ago, and if you adjust for the population of over 70s (who represent around 80% of deaths every year) that is equivalent to around 800 in terms of today’s population. The national figures show 3,981 this year and an equivalent 3,528 on Jan 3 2018.That’s without even looking at Jan 2015 where the equivalent national figure was 3840. And as I’m sure you’re all aware, G&A occupancy is well below its level for previous years.

So coming back to the London figures, the NHS crisis is about 274 people out of a population of 9 million, of whom an estimate of 20% (55) are under 75, and that is the reason our children can’t go to schools, we are under house arrest and normal life has been cancelled. Not to mention the horrendous toll in unemployment, mental illness, poverty and death from other causes. Taking into account the growth rate in critical care patients over the last two weeks that may go up to 1,200 at the peak, but also could be far lower as London seems to be close to or past its peak.

If this were treated as a normal illness and NHS staff were not forced to self-isolate on the basis of no symptoms and highly unreliable tests, there would be far less pressure on the NHS, but that is not even the issue. Are we seriously saying that the NHS in London is overwhelmed by under 300 people, and a total of just over 1,000 in critical care. It is beyond negligent that this should happen, and there are no words to describe the revolting and sick response by the government.

It is blindingly obvious that lockdowns don’t work, compare the graphs of Sweden to UK, Italy, France etc and the graphs of Brazil to Peru. Even the countries that applied them early (Germany, Poland etc) are now ‘catching up’ in terms of deaths per million. The argument for lockdowns is self-serving and disingenuous and people promoting it are a disgrace.

The excess deaths in England and Wales for week 51 were around 502 (on a population and age adjusted basis) and for week 52 (to December 25th) around 500-1000, difficult to say precisely for that week because of the bank holidays, and for the whole year about 30,000, 1 person in 2,000 when about 1 in 100 die every year anyway.

Let’s get real – anyone who supports a lockdown should be feeling shame this morning. The government’s response to the pandemic is revolting.

342705 ▶▶ Adamb, replying to Laurence, 10, #318 of 2123 🔗

Superb post.

342758 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Adamb, 2, #319 of 2123 🔗

Yes, thank you, time for the ‘managers’ at NHS/Moloch to fall on their swords like the chap on the doors at US Capitol.

342711 ▶▶ Alci, replying to Laurence, 28, #320 of 2123 🔗

Now that’s the sort of crisp summary I’d like to see on lockdown sceptics every morning. Thank you for digging out those stats & presenting so clearly.

I’m also viscerally anti-imprisoning healthy people because I think it goes beyond where a state can and should properly act. I agree with Jonathan Sumption that it’s illegitimate in a democracy to apply criminal law to who I meet with, what I wear, and where I go.

That’s why I had panic attacks for the first time since I was a child when the first lockdown was announced (thank goodness for a supportive husband), despite us not being financially affected. The horror of all those affected – domestic violence, small business owners, loneliness… Almost unbearable, but at least I have young children to distract me.
But I felt totally alone. Comfortable middle class people, relieved to be able to watch Netflix in place of their commute, just didn’t think like that. *I* was the immoral one.

The penny’s dropping with more people now, but still with far, far too few. It’s still weirdly acceptable to say “I approved of the first lockdown but not the later ones”. But that set the percent for how the state could act! If it’s ok to lockdown in some circumstances, trust the government to find plenty of relevant circumstances.

342765 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Alci, 11, #321 of 2123 🔗

Yes, the idea that it’s somehow OK for 130 million people to starve to death highlights the immorality. As with thermageddon the world’s poor must suffer so we can feel safe and virtuous.

342838 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 16, #322 of 2123 🔗

What’s even more immoral are the comfortable middle classes in the developing world who support lockdown even at the cost of their poor counterparts and are tone deaf to the mental health impacts of lockdowns, social distancing and enforced mask wearing. That’s the reason why I’m done with my family for awhile now – their inappropriate responses and remarks to my perfectly harmless gestures such as thanking them for Christmas presents and asking them how they’re getting hints at their having swallowed the propaganda whole and allowing for no dissent. The final insult was my brother-in-law telling me to stay at home because a friend died of Covid. While I wouldn’t take lightly someone dying at a young age, I would query whether it was actually Covid or something else.

At the risk of sounding callous, I wouldn’t shed tears for my family if they run into financial difficulties and my nieces develop psychological problems as a result of all this. They made their bed and they can lie in it.

343352 ▶▶▶▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to Bart Simpson, 14, #323 of 2123 🔗

Lockdown is a comfortable middle class policy, for those of us who actually have to go out and work (my job can’t be done at home) and live in flats with no garden etc its no fun and a violation of human rights.

344441 ▶▶ Jez Hewitt, replying to Laurence, #324 of 2123 🔗

If all stats are confirmed, this should appear as a permanent piece on the right-hand side and (with all due respect and gratitude) Laurence should be Toby’s spin doctor the next time MSM want to humble him on telly. This government is a fucking disgrace and is treating us like thick subservient cunts. My greatest fear is they, along with Starmer’s cluster-fucks, know we’ll never vote for these spineless pricks again thus under Klaus’ direction they’ll never give us the chance.

Stacey Rudin’s piece in today’s extras should be an international heads up to anyone supporting or condoning any type of lockdown. How can any of this bullshit be remotely acceptable.

342686 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 53, #325 of 2123 🔗

I still think lockdowns are wrong and always have been wrong. They don’t work in any material way and they cause more harm than good. It really is that simple.

In any other year, if the NHS was at material risk of being overwhelmed by a combination of a virulent strain of flu, cold weather, and the usual winter ailments, any calls to shut down the entire country just to stop it from being overwhelmed would have been met with understandable derision.

There is absolutely no excuse. This disease has been circulating for a year now and scientists have known for months that it is seasonal. Sir Patrick Vallance himself admitted back in March that a long spring lockdown would just delay the proper peak of the disease until winter, when everyone is already weaker and there are fewer healthcare resources – and yet that’s exactly what we did, and had summer restrictions to boot as well. The government have had ample time to prepare the NHS for what they knew was going to happen, but instead of doing that, they have just used the information to spread fear and panic. If this really is a ‘wartime’ situation, then why can’t the government make a massive mobilisation effort to scale up beds, get required medical staff out of retirement to volunteer, buy treatments in bulk so that patients can be discharged quicker? If the political will is there then surely it can be done? Surely shutting down the entire country is the nuclear option, so why is it being treated as the only option?

There is a reason why full lockdowns of entire countries have never before been used to stop the spread of the disease. They don’t save any lives and cause more harm than good. Again, it really is that simple.

342717 ▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Poppy, 7, #326 of 2123 🔗

Not really a full shutdown though what we have. Production, Construction, Haulage and big retail all fully firing. All I might add include big Conservative donors. The cynical might conclude that might be a factor in the government’s shutdown selection, or shutting them down so close to tax year end would hugely dip the tax take after April. Remember 29% is due back on last years grants. Choke of 3 months income in construction and HMRC would potentially lose much of that.

I did hear the rapist’s dad this morning indicating he would love a hit at some of the sectors the government has so kindly allowed to trade.

342719 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Poppy, 38, #327 of 2123 🔗

I am appalled at this ‘Protected the NHS’ mantra, like it was some frail elderly relative of whom not much can be expected. As I have mentioned before, if I pay a plumber £5000 to fit a new bathroom and end up having to defecate in the garden because the toilet does not work I do not say ‘oh well never mind we must protect the poor plumber, no, I will give the plumber merry hell until they get back and do the job for which they were paid! With this current crisis why are the NHS top brass not all on the carpet, being dressed down and getting final warnings for failing to do the job for which they are paid very highly?

The current NHS model is fatally flawed we cannot carry on like this, being made to suffer for a bloated organisation that seems incapable of organising an inebriated celebration in a place of alcohol production.

342815 ▶▶▶ Fiona Walker, replying to Steve Martindale, 11, #328 of 2123 🔗

Me too. If this (NHS) isn’t sorted out over the summer heads should do more than roll, they should be on spikes. No more lockdowns after this one.

343058 ▶▶▶ houdini, replying to Steve Martindale, 6, #329 of 2123 🔗

Be careful criticism of the NHS may soon lead to the police breaking your door down

342857 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Poppy, 17, #330 of 2123 🔗

“Protecting the NHS” is one of the biggest albatross around the British public’s neck. I always thought that the NHS was there to serve us not the other way round.

Trouble is the NHS is stuck in the late 1940s-early 1950s and has never kept us hence why we’re in this mess. Meanwhile we’re spoon fed propaganda about how wonderful it is and any dissent or suggestions of reform is always shut down by cries of “we will end up like America” as is the USA is the only other comparable health system (same argument is used against suggestions of reform in the BBC). If the NHS is so wonderful why haven’t other countries especially those in the Commonwealth have copied it?

When this is over, there really needs to be a root and branch reform of the NHS or perhaps put it out of its misery and let us move to a system similar to France or Germany. Let’s face it, the NHS to me seems to be practically begging to be euthanised at this point.

343048 ▶▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to Bart Simpson, 11, #331 of 2123 🔗

Absolutely right…I am sick to death of the bloody NHS.

343123 ▶▶▶ John001, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #332 of 2123 🔗

I get sick of insurance companies in other fields ripping me off and refusing to pay claims. Charlatans.

Half the world uses a variant on a government-run medical system because no-one’s found anything better (or less bad) that can cover a country’s healthcare needs on about 10-12% of GDP. One reason the UK NHS is pathetic is that it only pays 8-9% of GDP.

The German system will deny people treatment for serious conditions if they don’t have an adequate insurance record. Happened to a friend’s brother. They’ll be means-tested until their savings have mostly gone. A slightly less cruel version of the US system.

344691 ▶▶▶ ladynorwood, replying to Bart Simpson, #333 of 2123 🔗

Indeed – people seem to forget that the S in NHS stands for Service, just like the Civil Service – they work for US, WE pay THEIR wages… It is almost punishable by death (well actually it is punishable by death) to criticise the NHS, akin to saying you eat live babies. The mismanagement and abuse of the system by staff is eyewatering – I know of a nurse who books two weeks’ holiday, then does her job as “bank” staff (on three times the money), goes back to work for a couple of days, gets signed off sick for two weeks and goes on holiday…. I also have a mate who offered to supply his local NHS trust with surgical gloves at £5 a box (whilst still making a profit), the response was “no thanks, we’ll stick with our supplier at £9 a box”…

342995 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Poppy, 9, #334 of 2123 🔗

Good post. Mrs TJN and I have been having that exact conversation over breakfast.

There’s all that they could have been doing to prepare for what is happening now. But we find that the NHS has some 5k to 10k fewer beds than this time last year. Isn’t that literally criminal?

There’s loads they could be doing right now to try to get on top of this, but there’s no sign they’re doing it.

Fundamentally, once we’d got to about mid-April last year covid wasn’t a difficult problem to understand. Enough information was in. What was needed was clarity of thought and the moral courage to see it through. Both have been woefully lacking.

One difference between Mrs TJN and I is that I get very worked up about it, I chew it over constantly, whereas she can compartmentalise it.

343428 ▶▶▶ Sceptical Steve, replying to TJN, 5, #335 of 2123 🔗

It seems to be acknowledged now that the key reason reason that they’ve reduced the number of available beds is because they never planned for the hospitals to be full of sick patients. If this was line from “Yes Minister”, that would have had the audience rolling in the aisles!

344458 ▶▶▶▶ Jez Hewitt, replying to Sceptical Steve, 1, #336 of 2123 🔗

A true sceptic might suggest they’ve reduced the beds knowing full well what they’re doing.

342688 Biker, replying to Biker, 41, #337 of 2123 🔗

My right to do what i want is more important than not overwhelming the NHS. I could give two fucks about the NHS. Anyone supporting the destruction of society, our rights and all the rest of it is a direct threat to me and will be treated as such if the need be. Just saying all you fuckers supporting the tyranny might face those who’s live’s they’ve destroyed

343059 ▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to Biker, 9, #338 of 2123 🔗

Yes this is the real nub of it…utterly sick of the NHS being put before people’s jobs and businesses and general ability to enjoy their lives. It is now a form of ‘health fascism’. Every stupid Tory feels obliged to worship the NHS just in case they are pilloried by the Labour Party. They might as well just join forces,,,they really are no different.

344108 ▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to Biker, 1, #339 of 2123 🔗

No one should be willing to surrender their rights, liberties and freedoms which grandad’s generation fought so hard in WW2 to protect.

342692 Hoppy Uniatz, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 35, #340 of 2123 🔗

Waiting at the bus station yesterday. The bus came in, empty except for the driver and a small girl sitting on the bucket seat behind the driver, intent on an ipad. I got on, nobody else did, the small girl stayed in place. As the bus wended through miles of suburbia I gradually twigged.

As I got off:
Me (indicating small girl, to the bus driver):”Is that your childcare?!”
Bus driver (ruefully): “yeah.”

Evidently bus drivers don’t count as key workers.

342824 ▶▶ Fiona Walker, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 13, #341 of 2123 🔗

Interesting also that some teachers are complaining that the number of key worker children in schools has rocketed compared to spring, a good sign I think as the novelty of furlough wears off and the reality of redundancy hits home; it may also show that parental fear of the virus is dropping like a stone.

342890 ▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Fiona Walker, 11, #342 of 2123 🔗

Dog walking yesterday I met 3 neighbours on my block. Had long chats with them all. One said she and her husband had gone back to work they are so bored. On previous lockdowns they did WFH.
While working they use a dog walker who visits their home, a tiny boost to the local economy , so 3 people usefully working.
No masks at all and the only pavement dancing was us trying to stop our dogs on leads doing the maypole dance around us.
Also no clapping. We are all fed up.

342892 ▶▶ mj, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 3, #343 of 2123 🔗

that has serious implications from an insurance point of view. The child was not a fare paying passenger etc . I admire the drivers initiative but i hope he does not have an accident

342695 Alci, replying to Alci, 17, #344 of 2123 🔗

I suspect Alastair Haimes was “got” at, perhaps by those he works with or whose funds he manages. And perhaps he couldn’t resist the kudos of writing for the Spectator. From Twitter exchanges in the spring, he did not believe – based on robust data – that lockdowns worked. That said, he was always more centrist and circumspect than his promoters would have you believe – I remember being surprised by the wetness of some of his comments on the Delingpod last summer.

Speaking of the Spectator, what a hopeless disappointment that’s been. A combination of getting too close to their sources, logical data analysis not being their strong point, and a desire by management to massively grow readership by becoming more “mainstream”, has hollowed out the quality of their journalism.

In short, thank goodness for lockdown sceptics!

342703 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Alci, 11, #345 of 2123 🔗

He may have been “got at” but I suspect it’s more likely he was suffering from the pressure of being vilified by all and sundry, and with the vaccine sees an end in sight, and is justifying his change in position to himself as the data having changed.

342715 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Julian, 1, #346 of 2123 🔗

yep, he just had a wobble

342745 ▶▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to steve_w, 2, #347 of 2123 🔗

You are being kind.

343973 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to steve_w, #348 of 2123 🔗

Well he should have his wobbles in private!

342725 ▶▶▶ Alci, replying to Julian, 5, #349 of 2123 🔗

Yep, perhaps “got at” sounded too conspiracy theory. I meant something similar: your friends shrinking from you; perhaps your wife disagreeing with you; your fund management colleagues & major clients implying your views were unacceptable…
But on top of all that, to have such a high profile article in the Speccy implies someone senior/influential involved.
Anyway, wholly disappointing either way.

342728 ▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Alci, 2, #350 of 2123 🔗

he’ll kick himself. he should have stuck to his guns.

343072 ▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to Alci, 4, #351 of 2123 🔗

I doubt if Hames was got at….he was never really there…I thought he was politically clueless on the Delingpod. This is not about numbers anyway..its about moral choices.

As for the Spectator its gone…I never bought it anyway…I think I always suspected what it was really like underneath….its just pure Establishment. Look at the way Liddle caved in when things got tough.

342699 Stonecircle, replying to Stonecircle, 30, #352 of 2123 🔗

Re: Suggestions For Researchers

I live close to a major shopping area in Newcastle upon Tyne. I frequently use the large Tesco store. It probably employs 200 to 300 people aged 18 to 70. Until well into the summer the checkouts did not have plastic screens nor wear masks generally worn.

Every Tesco employee would have been exposed to the virus either from colleagues or from the public between early March and say July. Their working lives were unaffected by Lockdown rules.

I am on chatty terms with several of the people on the check outs. I know them well enough to ask if they have had Covid and how many of their Tesco colleagues have had it. I have been doing this since mid March.

By September I gathered that less than 10 had reported in sick with Covid. Some had been quite ill but none that I heard of had needed hospital treatment. One or two had reported long Covid problems.

One lady said that she was surprised that so few of her colleagues had caught Covid.

Allowing for inaccuracy in my figure one thing is quite clear. Of a hundred or more people who were repeatedly exposed to the virus the great majority were either immune to it or had the disease asymptomatically. I got the same picture when I spoke to people who work at other local stores.

I think this is a gives clear indication of the effect on society if we had continued as normal in March and not imposed a Lockdown. Dealing with Covid would have been manageable for the NHS. Most people would not have shown symptoms of the disease. For a time extra resources might have been needed to be diverted to ICU units. I have been opposed to lockdowns from the start.

One reason I know covid was going round the store in March is because I am sure that is where I caught it. Fortunately I had the Prince Charles version (I am of a similar age) not the Boris Johnson one. Go to bed immediately and sleep as much as possible is my recommendation to those who get it.

342843 ▶▶ Crimson Avenger, replying to Stonecircle, 9, #353 of 2123 🔗

I don’t know about you but I don’t buy this “asymptomatic” business. They didn’t catch it. The test they have been using is flawed and not fit for purpose. Our politicians have been led up the garden.

342862 ▶▶▶ maggie may, replying to Crimson Avenger, 5, #354 of 2123 🔗

I agree, i don’t buy it either. Are there any other diseases that are known that you can have and pass on to others but never show any signs or have symptoms of? Perhaps there are, does anyone know?

342894 ▶▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to maggie may, 11, #355 of 2123 🔗

Covid is strangely media-driven. The other great plagues in history were killing people very obviously in large numbers. Plagues, the “Spanish Flu” of 1918-20 etc. Although even reports of the latter were widely censored until WW1 was safely over.
If the MSM weren’t devoting most of their coverage to it most people would hardly know it was there.

342900 ▶▶▶▶▶ Crimson Avenger, replying to Waldorf, 8, #356 of 2123 🔗

I think the term “Hysteria” was coined for situations like this.

343437 ▶▶▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to maggie may, 2, #357 of 2123 🔗

I can’t think of any. I’ve never heard of colds and flu being spread asymptomatically, and most common cold bugs are coronaviruses.

343165 ▶▶▶ Stonecircle, replying to Crimson Avenger, 1, #358 of 2123 🔗

It is accepted that it is possible to have a viral infection asymptomatically. It was estimated that about 72% of the passengers on the cruise ship Diamond Princess had covid but had not displayed symptoms.

CT scans showed that some of these asymptomatic people had marks on their lungs called ground-glass opacity. This means, apparently, that the corona virus had caused internal damage but produced no symptoms.

I accept, of course, that the PCR test gives a significant percentage of false positive results.

The issue is how infectious are asymptomatic people? In some cases I think they must be shedding enough corona virus to transmit the disease.

342706 Will, replying to Will, 8, #359 of 2123 🔗

Fair play to Toby for publishing the piece by the London Doctor. Unfortunately, we are in a perfect storm because of the stupid decision to maintain the lockdown in the late spring/ summer. We are seeing exactly the scenario that Vallance predicted, allied to the scenario that Whitty predicted whereby any (negligible imho) suppressive effect of lockdown would be completely negated by demoralisation/ fatigue/ understandable non compliance. Neither of them factored in that a third of NHS staff would be absent because of the ridiculous test and trace system and the side effects of the vaccine. And they certainly won’t have factored in that crying wolf, with dodgy data, for months on end would exacerbate the non compliance.

The lockdown has caused this dire situation, of that there is no doubt, and any lockdown now is not going to stop the spread of the virus, although it might suppress the virus on its downward trajectory as it did, pointlessly, in the summer, thereby kicking the problem down the road, into the winter.

But, whether or not this lockdown is going to work, and I very much doubt it will, I support it out of solidarity with those decent NHS staff who are flogging their guts out. Yes there are still plenty of lazy pricks in the organisation and it needs to be completely reformed, but right now, if it helps those people on the front line to know that the country is making a massive sacrifice to support them then that is what I will do.

But no one should be under any illusion, the reason we are in this mess is because of the lockdown, Sweden shows yet again that the decision to try and stop the virus was utterly futile and has made matters worse.

342757 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Will, 10, #360 of 2123 🔗

I agree with you Will. Right from the very beginning it was made clear that the initial lockdown was to allow the NHS to gear up because lockdown would inevitably push the peak further down the road. Instead of taking the summer lull as an opportunity to build capacity, increase herd immunity and prepare people for the the inevitable winter uptick (vitamin D etc) the government created false hope then launched into an insane suppression strategy. Test and trace and false positives has resulted in huge numbers of NHS staff having to isolate unnecessarily and often repeatedly. People think we are experiencing a second or third wave but what this is now is the first wave with bells on. To mix metaphors, it’s the can the government kicked repeatedly down the road in the forlorn hope that the vaccine would ride to the rescue before the chickens came home to roost!!

343944 ▶▶▶ number 6, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 2, #361 of 2123 🔗

Yes the NHS is very sick, as is our world. They were infected by an insidious Virus that works by exploiting one of our basic Sins, that of Sloth.
And where did this Virus come from? From a certain William Henry Gates III , the same one that is now playing Doctors and Nurses.

Remember the days of DOS, Windows 3, Windows 5, Microsoft Word and then Microsoft Office, well such well intentioned tools fell into the hands of Bureaucrats, and all of a sudden Management could retreat from the “Coal Face”, “Front Line”, “The Shop Floor”, – call it what you like – to behind a wall in a comfy office divorced from reality, beavering away producing impressive Power Point Presentations, Spread Sheets with detailed data base generated predictions, all whilst the unfortunate foot soldiers have to meet deadlines both financial and production based on purely theoretical outcomes. This is bad enough in manufacturing, but in a Behemoth like a government agency or the NHS it resembles a pathogen such as Rabies.

Our NHS has been managed to meltdown while governments have squandered billions that should have been invested in Hospitals, Medical staff and equipment (think pipes that can carry sufficient Oxygen you “Might” need in an emergency). But I suppose it looks OK on the lovely Power Point Shows, and meticulous Excel spread sheets.

342768 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Will, 14, #362 of 2123 🔗

But, whether or not this lockdown is going to work, and I very much doubt it will, I support it out of solidarity with those decent NHS staff who are flogging their guts out”

I am confused. Elsewhere you’ve said trying to stop the virus is futile and makes matters worse, but you also say you support the lockdown. Doesn’t make sense to me.

You talk about non-compliance but from what I have seen that’s not the case – mask compliance is high, most people who can are working from home, almost all businesses that are forced to close have done so, and private socialising is down hugely – sure some are doing it but not many. I don’t think it is credible to say that non-compliance has made a significant difference.

The fact is that short of a complete shutdown, lockdowns are futile so supporting them is unhelpful.

Those NHS staff flogging their guts out hve signed up for that, and any difficulty they face is down to govt stupidity, incompetence, lack of planning, evil etc etc. I don’t see how supporting a lockdown helps them at all.

342769 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Will, 13, #363 of 2123 🔗

I can’t agree with you on the part about supporting it out of solidarity with some good people working hard given the damage it is causing and the futility of the policy.

Why make so many suffer for an empty gesture?

342909 ▶▶ Andrea Salford, replying to Will, 14, #364 of 2123 🔗

‘But, whether or not this lockdown is going to work, and I very much doubt it will, I support it out of solidarity with those decent NHS staff who are flogging their guts out………but right now, if it helps those people on the front line to know that the country is making a massive sacrifice to support them then that is what I will do.’

NO NO NO NO NO NO….

Sentimental hog wash! What sort of person under stress in their job would be helped by knowing the rest of the country suffering the misery of lockdown, businesses bankrupted, children denied education, suicides. Who is this selfish narcissist of whom you speak? Most NHS workers I know are sick of the lockdown effects themselves.

342936 ▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Andrea Salford, 13, #365 of 2123 🔗

Spot on. I’ve never come home after a hard day at work and thought, ‘ah, if only everybody else was having a hard time, that would make me feel so much more energised’.

342707 Julian, 26, #366 of 2123 🔗

The piece above the line about the control group and making comparisons between groups to see the impact of lockdowns (“Suggestions for researchers”) highlights what to me has been one of the most remarkable aspects of this whole nonsense – the lack of any interest from SAGE and others in finding out anything useful about the virus and how it spreads. After nearly a year, if you look at their public prouncements they come out with nothing even vaguely defnitive. Almost as if they don’t really care and they are sticking to their original script and bending the data to fit it.

342708 Adamb, replying to Adamb, 13, #367 of 2123 🔗

Outstanding update today I thought. Well done to Toby for a great piece, he must be feeling the heat at present. One point on the doctor’s update though, the figures for patients in ICU never seem to distinguish between those there for covid and those in there for other reasons that simply tested positive. Surely this is critical data that needs to be made available?

342744 ▶▶ Bungle, replying to Adamb, 5, #368 of 2123 🔗

No-one knows who has Covid. There is no reliable test!

342752 ▶▶▶ WasSteph, replying to Bungle, 6, #369 of 2123 🔗

That’s been the major issue throughout and something I was at pains to point out to Sir Desmond when I wrote to thank him. I doubt he needed me to tell him that, though. The shame is there are at least 630 other MPs too dense to realise it.

342834 ▶▶▶ Fiona Walker, replying to Bungle, 4, #370 of 2123 🔗

Stop the testing! Even in a control area. See what difference it makes to hospitalisations and deaths.

342712 l835, replying to l835, 14, #371 of 2123 🔗

Congratulations to drakeford for identifying a previously undestroyed section of the economy, kitchen showrooms. What an absolute bastard.

344028 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to l835, 3, #372 of 2123 🔗

It isn’t just the showrooms. It’s all the kitchen fabricators, the stonemasons and fitters, and the plasterers, electricians, tilers and plumbers who will be short of work.

342716 Nobody2021, replying to Nobody2021, 12, #373 of 2123 🔗

If I want to go for a drive but I don’t have enough fuel for the journey I would say the problem is that I don’t have enough fuel. I wouldn’t say that it’s because I want to go on a journey that’s made the shortage of fuel a problem and I certainly wouldn’t ban myself from driving so that it would never be a problem again.

So when the NHS is in danger of being overwhelmed due to a reduced number of beds and staff shortages it is pretty clear what the problem is.

In this case it’s not a case of simply refuelling because that would take too long and perhaps it’s a good idea to not take this particular journey but let’s not pretend that the problem is anything other than a lack of fuel.

342724 ▶▶ l835, replying to Nobody2021, 13, #374 of 2123 🔗

The problem with the NHS is the NHS. Staff, management and unions. Very similar to British Leyland, and the NCB. Look what happened to them, we still have cars to drive and our homes are heated. Watch out NHS, you’re next.

342729 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to l835, 6, #375 of 2123 🔗

We hope so and not a moment to soon.

342730 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to l835, 5, #376 of 2123 🔗

Undoubtedly but there are still some bloody good people who work in the organisation.

342733 ▶▶▶▶ FerdIII, replying to Will, 9, #377 of 2123 🔗

And like all Stalinist-Socialist organisations many bloody bad ones – some of whom produce dance videos in empty hospitals.

342934 ▶▶▶▶ Andrea Salford, replying to Will, 3, #378 of 2123 🔗

Absolutely no doubt about that, just a shame not many of them are in charge of running it. Reform of the NHS doesn’t do away with the good ones – they are propping it up – but it would give them the chance to be part of a better model apart from the current incompetent bureaucratic blob.

342738 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #380 of 2123 🔗

Not to mention the ethics of ICL coming on TV talking about the worst cases without caveats. Or that some of these models are the equivalent of saying in the next ten years it will rain on between 3 and all days of that period. (3 orders of magnitude)

342742 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #381 of 2123 🔗

There is another interesting article on this site concerning vaccine hype:

https://www.coronababble.com/post/covid-19-vaccines-is-the-hype-justified

342726 Alias Margaret, replying to Alias Margaret, 20, #382 of 2123 🔗

https://www.research.ox.ac.uk/Article/2020-07-19-the-oxford-covid-19-vaccine

After yesterday’s fiasco when taking M-I-L for her jab, I thought that I would look into the Oxford-Astra Zeneca vaccine for myself. It’s difficult for me, as a non-scientist, to understand but unlike Ferguson, I do have biology O level!

It struck me that, as this type of vaccine has been in development for years so was able to be modified once they had the genetic code for Coronavirus, it has been tested using chimpanzees. How will the animal activists feel about that?

Secondly, yesterday there was no social distancing going on between patients and staff, not just those administering the jab, in spite of the hands, face, space mantra. Forms and clipboards were passed between staff and no-one was being encouraged to sanitise their hands. They did ask some people to pull up their mask but, as I said yesterday, no-one commented about our maskless faces, nor the fact that M-I-L had a mask hanging off one ear.

I think that this is all theatre, just as the masks were introduced to make people feel safer about going shopping, vaccinations will make people feel safer about rejoining society once restrictions are lifted. I do hope that I am right.

342740 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to Alias Margaret, 5, #383 of 2123 🔗

It could be dangerous theatre too with a ‘vaccine’ which is being tested on the general public.

https://principia-scientific.com/what-vaccine-trials/

342741 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Alias Margaret, 9, #384 of 2123 🔗

There is at least one peer reviewed scientific per about the attempts to develop a SARS vaccine. It resulted in the creation of antibodies but upon exposure to the actual virus the animals all died of multiple organ failure. This led to the paper’s authors warning of any attempt to develop a vaccine for human use. I believe the phenomenon of hypersensitising a person by way of a vaccine is called “pathogenic priming.” And Covid-19 is actually SARS 2.0

Chien-Te Tseng , Elena Sbrana , Naoko Iwata-Yoshikawa , Patrick C Newman , Tania Garron , Robert L Atmar , Clarence J Peters , Robert B Couch Immunization with SARS coronavirus vaccines leads to pulmonary immunopathology on challenge with the SARS virus,” PLoS One 2012;7(4):e35421.doi: 10.1371/journal.pone.0035421. Epub 2012 Apr 20

343003 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Londo Mollari, 3, #385 of 2123 🔗

That is one scary paper

342759 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Alias Margaret, 13, #386 of 2123 🔗

All theatre, yes

Masks introduced to make people feel more like there was a deadly threat, not safer

344693 ▶▶▶ ladynorwood, replying to Julian, #387 of 2123 🔗

I read a great analogy – ME wearing a mask to keep YOU safe is like ME wearing gloves to keep YOUR hands warm

342766 ▶▶ Annie, replying to Alias Margaret, 19, #388 of 2123 🔗

Face knickers don’t make the zombies feel safer. They feel less safe, and more vinductive against those with human faces.
Which shows that they work exactly as intended.

342841 ▶▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to Annie, 11, #389 of 2123 🔗

Face masks are evil

342858 ▶▶▶ Crystal Decanter, replying to Annie, 9, #390 of 2123 🔗

It’s a slave rag
Just like the Islamic one

342989 ▶▶▶ Alias Margaret, replying to Annie, 4, #391 of 2123 🔗

Yes, Julian and Annie, I made the point months ago that you wouldn’t want to visit Johannesburg, the murder capital of the world, if you had to wear a bullet proof/stab vest for your visit.

342731 Waldorf, 1, #392 of 2123 🔗

anti-empire.com has the Overly Attached Girlfriend meme with “Do You Know Our Lord And Savior The Vaccine?”

342732 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 11, #393 of 2123 🔗

One of the most telling things about this whole debacle is that it shows up the fantasists and the realists. The fantasists are currently running the show believing in all types of devils and reading the entrails only to shout the sky is falling.

The realists are pointing out this very fact.

The missus usually has BBC on. She’s isn’t originally from the UK so to her it’s just noise.

I was actually a little taken aback with Jon Sopel reporting on the Capital Hill walkabout. He actually compared and contrasted the Antifa riots in Washington to the demonstration the other day showing they weren’t the same thing. Maybe, just maybe a little chink of the idiot armour is starting to show as the MSM are realising the monster that is awakening.

I was told the joke once that the Celts are prone to flare ups and passions but with the English, watch out. They may look calm but when they finally lose their shit you get a 100 years war.

342751 ▶▶ Waldorf, replying to mhcp, 1, #394 of 2123 🔗

I think generalisations about nations are risky though like most generalisations there is some truth to them. The English for example have sometimes presented themselves or at least thought themselves to be particularly fond of liberty. The dread contagion and all the things that go with it suggest this is not the case. Another generalisation, that they are somewhat conformist and find it hard to go beyond complaining, seems more true.

342803 ▶▶ Basics, replying to mhcp, #395 of 2123 🔗

Sopel is one of the very worst. Yt used to hold a video of him in news studio acting like god towards a guest. Even his fellow presenter was astonished with a gasp of Jon! To which sopel just doubled down.

342812 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Basics, 3, #396 of 2123 🔗

That’s why I was so surprised. The man drips so much hate for Trump he could sell it as butter

342959 ▶▶ TJN, replying to mhcp, 7, #397 of 2123 🔗

I think that last sentence is a perceptive point. History seems to show that the English are pretty laid back, will go along with things in their own quiet way, be patient patient patient, and then when they’ve had enough suddenly turn. And at that point someone has a formidable enemy. Here’s hoping.

343448 ▶▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to TJN, 6, #398 of 2123 🔗

Thats whats most likely happening, we English have got a long fuse but do eventually reach a breaking point. I now thankfully think we are close to that blow point with the third lockdown.

342735 FerdIII, replying to FerdIII, 19, #399 of 2123 🔗

Flu Vaxx’s have never stopped transmission, for some people (30% maybe), with weak immune systems they ‘may’ reduce symptoms. 60 years of data proves this. They also injure and in some cases kill.

So what happens when they finally admit the obvious that jabbing you is unlikely to do much except injure or be neutral in 70% of the pop? Will that be good enough for Hands-in-pants to end the dictatorship?

342999 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to FerdIII, 4, #400 of 2123 🔗

For sure that’s where it will end up. At every turn any real analysis is drowned out by the marketing push

342736 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 18, #401 of 2123 🔗

In the future when people suggest we fund the NHS more generously we have a great excuse not to! Demand can be managed by restrictions on the public. Surely there can be no downsides.

Maybe automate the system. In the mornings log onto the NHS dashboard – if admissions or occupied beds are below some threshhold you can go to work, if not work from home.

Your car computer can be directly linked to the NHS. Some days it just won’t start!

etc

342918 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to steve_w, 5, #402 of 2123 🔗

Don’t feed the dragon of totalitarianism.

342951 ▶▶ Crimson Avenger, replying to steve_w, 4, #403 of 2123 🔗

Please. Be careful what you wish for, even if you didn’t actually wish for it.

343294 ▶▶ JanMasarykMunich, replying to steve_w, 3, #404 of 2123 🔗

Well, there are some people who think the move to e-vehicles is all about that (control through IT), and nothing to do with saving the planet.

Not a car driver myself.

342743 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 16, #405 of 2123 🔗

The Mandy Boy is a dead cock walking

The lazy, living on past glories Spectator have given the genocidal maniac a platform

The moment he most looks forward to? “When I have the duty to declare that the Coronavirus Act is no longer required, upon medical advice. That will be a great moment: when we repeal these draconian laws.”

‘Upon medical advice’ yep, getting his retaliation in first as we say round here. Well ‘it was the medics that dun it’ won’t wash. You could have stopped them and you didn’t

Or ‘when we repeal these draconian laws’ Makes it sound like the draconian laws were nothing to do with him. Listen Butt, as we also say round here, they are your draconian laws and it will be you that pays the price

As they once sang on the football terraces round here

‘We’re coming for you, we’re coming for you
Mandy Cock, Mandy Cock
We’re coming for you’

343898 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cecil B, 3, #406 of 2123 🔗

The snivelling lying little toe rag Twatt Handycock is never going to be able to move freely in public again. The same goes for his compatriots…..

344120 ▶▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to Two-Six, #407 of 2123 🔗

Yeah he is my MP and if I saw him in the street it would take a lot of willpower not to give him the Doc Marten treatment. Loathsome little turd.

342746 Crimson Avenger, replying to Crimson Avenger, 2, #408 of 2123 🔗

We need a more accurate test to tell if the subject is infectious or not. Why spend billions trying to fight something that is not there or not a risk to others?

342753 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Crimson Avenger, 16, #409 of 2123 🔗

Because this long ceased to be about a virus. The cockup theory no longer fits and hasn’t fitted for ages. It’s a coup. A globalist coup.

342756 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Crimson Avenger, 3, #410 of 2123 🔗

You’d think, wouldn’t you? Except the “scientists” and politicians don’t seem very interested in reality

343978 ▶▶ number 6, replying to Crimson Avenger, 2, #411 of 2123 🔗

If we accept that the Virus is now endemic isn’t it obvious that testing for it in general population is going to find a lot of it! This was my first thought last summer when thinking about the likely situation we now have. Have we ever mass tested for an endemic pathogen before??

342749 The Dominie, 3, #412 of 2123 🔗

Just wanted to suggest a different painting for the top of today’s LS page, please. (This may already have been pointed out in comments earlier this morning.)

The painting showing at the moment is called “Scotland Forever” by Lady Butler, and is of the Scots Greys charging at Waterloo in 1815 – not the Charge of the Light Brigade at Balaclava in 1854.

There is a classic painting of the latter which I have found on alamy.com

Many thanks. And thanks for the vital work you do each day.

342750 chaos, replying to chaos, 28, #413 of 2123 🔗

crickle crackll..sclii..

It’s me again, from the future. Tier 9. Otherwise known as lockdown 11. We are not allowed shoe laces. Or windows. Everyone is cold. Burglaries are up. When walking or running our shoes fall off. At first they came for the laces but I did not speak up because I had velcro fasteners. All the old people have vanished. They said it was covid but Findus crispy pancakes now taste very strange. Boris has moved his new girlfriend Greta into number 10…

Crickle crackle.. spplllittttt ccc…

342763 ▶▶ Waldorf, replying to chaos, 1, #414 of 2123 🔗

Is Greta old enough? Is this not an abomination against the laws of God and man?

342770 ▶▶▶ chaos, replying to Waldorf, 7, #415 of 2123 🔗

She is now 18. Old enough for Boris.

342783 ▶▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to chaos, 2, #416 of 2123 🔗

“In Tier 12. Have begun to have sexual fantasies about Greta whose appearances on TV are increasingly frequent. This is probably a token of my complete moral collapse. Along with the cannibalism.”

342799 ▶▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to chaos, 5, #417 of 2123 🔗

Correction: too old for . . . well, let us just say, too old for many of our elite class.

344075 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to chaos, #418 of 2123 🔗

18 and presumably anorexic cos she looks about 12.

342854 ▶▶▶ Crystal Decanter, replying to Waldorf, 5, #419 of 2123 🔗

18 and flatter than day old Pepsi
so she still ticks the yew tree box for the House of Commons

344014 ▶▶ Richy_m_99, replying to chaos, #420 of 2123 🔗

They will never get rid of windows. They want to reintroduce the window tax. That way, we will all be incentivesed to remove our own windows leaving them blameless, while we are tax avoiding bastards.

342754 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 10, #421 of 2123 🔗

BBC TV

8pm next Thursday

The silence of the lambs

342760 ▶▶ Waldorf, replying to Cecil B, 11, #422 of 2123 🔗

“A neighbour reported me to the police for holding a dinner party. I ate his liver with fava beans and a nice Chianti…”

343988 ▶▶▶ number 6, replying to Waldorf, #423 of 2123 🔗

Hi, Hannibal.

342761 chaos, 11, #424 of 2123 🔗

Telegraph is all American today. Not a peep about the UK. What a strange conservative paper it is.

342767 muzzle, replying to muzzle, 23, #425 of 2123 🔗

Well, I’m now fairly sure vaccination won’t be mandatory as the inlaws have just had their first ones and the medics/GPs seem incapable of recording it properly or tracking their follow up. The idea that I might need a digital certificate of vaccination to get into a gig or a sports event in future is laughable. There’s no way they could organise something like that. You’d just have to say you’ve had it.

342795 ▶▶ Ganjan21, replying to muzzle, 3, #426 of 2123 🔗

A ray of hope!

342825 ▶▶ penelope pitstop, replying to muzzle, 6, #427 of 2123 🔗

that’s what i’m hoping for that their sheer incompetence would limit the rollout of digital-id / proof of vaxx etc. Do they issue a card or something to say they’ve had a jab?

342922 ▶▶▶ muzzle, replying to penelope pitstop, 1, #428 of 2123 🔗

Yes. There is a record card which was supposed to show the follow up date but they’ve left it blank because they’re unable to book people in now.

342850 ▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to muzzle, 6, #429 of 2123 🔗

I think if they do ever introduce digital passports to get into gigs/on holiday etc the program will be hacked apart within days and convincing counterfeit apps will spring up everywhere. People will find ways around it. I’m not worried as this government are useless, just look at the failure of the test and trace app.

342906 ▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to FarBeyondDrivenDevil, 6, #430 of 2123 🔗

I read somewhere that in German-occupied Poland during WW2, something like one ID document in every eight was fake. In occupied countries resistance groups often churned out fake documents. Not just ID but ration coupons etc. The black market was also active in that regard. In Berlin the black market started producing hammer and sickle insignia and even Stars of David in spring 1945, sensing a change of management.

342923 ▶▶▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to Waldorf, 5, #431 of 2123 🔗

Exactly people will always find ways around authority and control. I’m actually starting to feel like a member of the resistance!

343496 ▶▶▶▶ Sceptical Steve, replying to Waldorf, #432 of 2123 🔗

In the Great Escape film, Donald Pleasance and his team of skilled forgers appeared to perform miracles producing all the necessary travel papers. In reality, many of the guards had been quite happy to be bribed to provide them with original documents to copy. (By the time fo the escape, it was so blindingly obvious that something dramatic was about to happen that the camp management expressly told the senior British officers not to do anything silly. The rest, sadly, is history.)

342851 ▶▶ Crystal Decanter, replying to muzzle, 4, #433 of 2123 🔗

Plenty of fake docs will be available on the interwebs
Do not panic

342868 ▶▶ WasSteph, replying to muzzle, 4, #434 of 2123 🔗

Correct, government IT programs always fail spectacularly and expensively. That’s why for years we all had to be Prince II practitioners if we wanted project management work in either the public or private sectors. It was supposed to give a framework to avoid such cock ups. Whether it would have or not, needless to say I’ve never known a client follow it.

342943 ▶▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to WasSteph, 7, #435 of 2123 🔗

The fact they always fail so spectacularly is why I’m not bothered by all the talk about technocracies, great reset, digital ID/vax records, covid passports etc. Every one will be an expensive flop and many are just pie in the sky.

343325 ▶▶▶▶ JanMasarykMunich, replying to FarBeyondDrivenDevil, 3, #436 of 2123 🔗

Friend of mine in IT is also confident these agendas will fail for the moment because of technical/logistical reasons.

But I would not underrate the future danger. I think it is clear there are powerful forces pushing digital vax IDs, etc. and a lot of money is being thrown at developing technologies to make these realizable.

343370 ▶▶▶▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to JanMasarykMunich, 3, #437 of 2123 🔗

Well we’ll see, but I think we’ve got a reason to be optimistic. The government recently threw over £12 billion at the test and trace app and that has flopped completely. You can throw all the money you like at establishing a digital surveillance state but if people refuse to play along its a waste of time.

344053 ▶▶ Ken Garoo, replying to muzzle, #438 of 2123 🔗

Tricky to make it mandatory when the regulatory documents state it is not to be used by individuals under 16, pregnant women, individuals with immune system issues, people with allergies … It seems that the only people it suits are those who are least at risk from the virus.

342774 Tim Bidie, 14, #439 of 2123 🔗

A huge Thank You to all concerned with today’s ‘Lockdown Sceptics’. This is a really excellent edition.

I hope serious consideration is given to turning ‘Lockdown Sceptics’ into a fully blown online newspaper in due course.

Mr Young is brilliant, intrepid and immensely hardworking, a rare combination. We are so very lucky to have someone of such calibre so committed to this matter.

The splendid picture at the head of the page refers to a brilliant cavalry action during the Battle of Waterloo. The Commander that day brought in a program of reform to the British Army as a consequence of his experiences.

The caption to that picture is taken from a poem written about a later cavalry action during the Crimean War. That war was followed by further swingeing reforms to the British Army.

There is no question now but that the organisation and leadership of the NHS and its associated bureaucracy, particularly SAGE, and most particularly the SAGE membership recruitment system, is in similar need of root and branch reform, for it has been responsible for a national and international calamity, lives lost, on a scale unimaginable during either the Napoleonic or Crimean Wars.

https://iea.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Niemietz-NHS-Interactive.pdf

342775 Basileus, replying to Basileus, 5, #440 of 2123 🔗

Clap silence for carers. DM has an article and the comments are almost universally reporting no clapping.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9123391/National-landmarks-capital-light-blue-celebrate-NHS-frontline-workers.html

342788 ▶▶ Crimson Avenger, replying to Basileus, 11, #441 of 2123 🔗

Thats because the NHS has never been so useless since its inception which was somewhere around 1936. (I know it came in in 1948). My wife has now gone blind whilst waiting for a consultation in the NHS. I can’t believe how useless they are.

342796 ▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Crimson Avenger, 1, #442 of 2123 🔗

The pre-war government set up the Emergency Medical Service (EMS) to deal with the possibility of casualties from bombing.

342846 ▶▶▶ Crystal Decanter, replying to Crimson Avenger, 6, #443 of 2123 🔗

Sorry to hear that.
These criminals need to be held to account.
and they will be

343004 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Crystal Decanter, 1, #444 of 2123 🔗

they won’t, you’re deluded

344059 ▶▶▶▶ Ken Garoo, replying to Crystal Decanter, #445 of 2123 🔗

The organisation has more managers than beds.It has become a safe haven for megalomaniac, checkbox-ticking mediocrities.

342856 ▶▶▶ WasSteph, replying to Crimson Avenger, 3, #446 of 2123 🔗

That is shocking but not the only similar case. I’m so very sorry that our leaders let her and many others down so badly. I am personally ashamed for having voted Conservative. I now have no political home unless the new parties take off successfully.

344066 ▶▶▶▶ Ken Garoo, replying to WasSteph, #447 of 2123 🔗

We have effectively been a single party state since Blair was selected for leadership of New Labour. TINA at last.

343460 ▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to Basileus, 4, #448 of 2123 🔗

You have failed to partake in the great clap, that is 200 points off your social credit score

342777 jhfreedom, replying to jhfreedom, 5, #449 of 2123 🔗

This barrister, Adam Wagner, is worth following on Twitter:

Adam Wagner (@AdamWagner1) / Twitter

He dissects the difference between guidelines and laws re. the new lockdown ‘rules’.

I don’t think he is a sceptic per se, but he has already highlighted some instances of the police over-reaching, e.g. Derbyshire force at a National Trust site the other day and Chorley.

342801 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to jhfreedom, 2, #450 of 2123 🔗

Thanks. Great recommendation. Here’s a great post about genocide he has shared… https://mobile.twitter.com/AdamWagner1/status/1347094765637140481

343055 ▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #451 of 2123 🔗

Thanks for that. Good recommendation,

In Lockdown1.0 the Lancs police were flying the helicopter over Rivington area and Winter Hill on the bank holidays. I suspect they’ll be using drones this time round – I was followed by one as I was walking the streets at night (10:30pm) recently and I’m pretty sure it was police. I couldn’t see any markings in the dark, but it was a serious piece of kit, not a toy.

There are plenty of places to walk without going to the most popular spots so I’ve avoided Rivington Pike, and I’ve discovered some good walks which (oddly!) have lasted longer than the guideline 60 minutes. They can’t be everywhere, even with aerial surveillance.

One day in April I came across a police car tucked away in a country lane and thought I’d be questioned. No problem though, the WPC was interested only in her knitting! A reminder that they are human, just like us.

343152 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to TheOriginalBlackPudding, 5, #452 of 2123 🔗

She probably didn’t want any trouble. Why are they so reluctant to challenge traveller sites – because it’s work, stressful and trouble. Easier to fine middle class people speeding in their Audis.

342780 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 9, #453 of 2123 🔗

The rantings of the junta are getting more hysterical (the empty hospital video rant being a good example)

It’s taking on the feel of ‘Downfall’

342790 ▶▶ Waldorf, replying to Cecil B, 4, #454 of 2123 🔗

“Der Angriff Fergusons was ein Befehl!” (Johnson throws coloured pencils in fit of rage)

342798 ▶▶ Sceptic Al, replying to Cecil B, 3, #455 of 2123 🔗

Boris’s Downfall. 2 months old, but still hliarious!… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4bzwNH7XnM&feature=youtu.be

342781 Crimson Avenger, replying to Crimson Avenger, 1, #456 of 2123 🔗

Israel leading vaccination programmes, copy Israel, now

Change made:
Botswana, Israel (and Jerusalem), Mauritius and Seychelles will be removed from the exempt list at 4am Saturday 9 January.

342793 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Crimson Avenger, 4, #457 of 2123 🔗

Copy Israel? You mean Handycock should bomb Damascus? I mean, Bashir al Assad invented covid-19, right?

342946 ▶▶▶ Crimson Avenger, replying to Londo Mollari, 1, #458 of 2123 🔗

Israel is supposedly leading the world in its vaccination programme. They expect to be the first country to use a vax passport (internally), and then England says they have to quarantine if they come here from Saturday.

343001 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Crimson Avenger, 3, #459 of 2123 🔗

they’re behind the whole thing anyway, surely? No wait, wrong forum.

343046 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Londo Mollari, 5, #460 of 2123 🔗

Actually, the Israel model is highly appropriate – the violent suppression of the indigenous population by the elite, and expropriation of assets. The UK security services have always had close links

344088 ▶▶ Ken Garoo, replying to Crimson Avenger, #461 of 2123 🔗

They have registered the Pfizer and Russian vaccines. The plebs get the Pfizer (and die at similar rates to elsewhere) while the nobs get the Russian vaccine (allegedly).

342782 Fingerache Philip, replying to Fingerache Philip, 9, #462 of 2123 🔗

The Bozzer says that nobody will be more than 10 miles from a vaccination centre so how come our nearest one is 15 miles away?

342786 ▶▶ iane, replying to Fingerache Philip, 11, #463 of 2123 🔗

Obviously the responsibility is on you to move! You people keep letting our beloved leader down!

342814 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to iane, 4, #464 of 2123 🔗

Does anybody know where I can get some sackcloth from, I think that I can manage the ashes.

342818 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to Fingerache Philip, 2, #465 of 2123 🔗

You can’t mean Bozzer is wrong?

342826 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to Basileus, 3, #466 of 2123 🔗

No, he was obviously advised by Wankcock,Witless,Vacuous,Fungalson and many others too numerous to mention.

342785 jhfreedom, replying to jhfreedom, 6, #467 of 2123 🔗

This new wording was quietly inserted into the Gov UK coronavirus lockdown rules a couple of days after they were published:

“If you (or a person in your care) have a health condition that routinely requires you to leave home to maintain your health – including if that involves travel beyond your local area or exercising several times a day – then you can do so.”

Of course, no reference to it (or indeed several aspects of the rules) in actual legislation.

But I’m curious – what kind of health condition would require “leaving home beyond your local area or exercising several times a day”?

Anxiety? “I need to see the sea”…

342805 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to jhfreedom, 5, #468 of 2123 🔗

Maybe husbands taking a break from the nagging wife. Wives taking a break from the ranting husband?

Partners having enough of partners of all types?

342991 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to mhcp, 1, #469 of 2123 🔗

hahahaha I know the feeling…

342811 ▶▶ chaos, replying to jhfreedom, 4, #470 of 2123 🔗

You don’t need to go into detail. You just say:

‘I am going to work’
‘I am tending to someone vulnerable’
‘I am escaping abuse at home’
‘I am going for medical treatment’

Police can’t probe further. And you cannot be detained without arrest. Always have your camera running.

342817 ▶▶▶ Basileus, replying to chaos, 3, #471 of 2123 🔗

I’m manufacturing Vitamin C.

342822 ▶▶▶▶ chaos, replying to Basileus, 4, #472 of 2123 🔗

Not if you are human. Along with some birds and guinea pigs, humans are one of the few animals that do not manufacture their own vitamin C. You mean D. Like other animals we make D when exposed to sunlight.

Gorillas make several grams of vitamin C per day but sunlight isn’t required for C manufacture. Besides, at this time of year you make very little D.

342880 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basileus, replying to chaos, 2, #473 of 2123 🔗

Did I say that – typo.

342884 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basileus, replying to chaos, 3, #474 of 2123 🔗

I hadn’t occurred to me that there may be a statutory minimum level of Vitamin D manufacture. There are rules for everything these days.

342833 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to chaos, #475 of 2123 🔗

Thanks for that advice.

343547 ▶▶▶ Sceptical Steve, replying to chaos, 1, #476 of 2123 🔗

I’m surprised that they haven’t tried to introduce something similar to the French system, where you have to carry a piece of paper stating the reasons why you’re away from your home, along with the expected duration of your jaunt.

342827 ▶▶ Nobody2021, replying to jhfreedom, 2, #477 of 2123 🔗

Poor eyesight. It’s ok to go for a long drive to test your eyesight regularly.

This is a joke in case I get accused of inciting insurrection.

342887 ▶▶▶ Basileus, replying to Nobody2021, 3, #478 of 2123 🔗

But only if you go to Barnard Castle.

342920 ▶▶ Marialta, replying to jhfreedom, 4, #479 of 2123 🔗

If you or your child have a child with a disability or special needs. Some young people with autism or anxiety disorders cannot stay cooped up indoors all day. If travelling to open flat ground to enable use of an adapted trike or wheelchair for example. Actually, taking two short walks for older people with arthritis could be much better than one long one.

342987 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Marialta, 1, #480 of 2123 🔗

That’s interesting. A friend of mine and his daughter both suffer anxiety and I have been advising them on whether they can drive to the coast tomorrow for their exercise.

342791 DanClarke, replying to DanClarke, 19, #481 of 2123 🔗

Police arresting people in their own homes in the UK, for spending time together! can you believe they want this to go around the world. What audience are they hoping for?

342955 ▶▶ Bungle, replying to DanClarke, 8, #482 of 2123 🔗

I’m now in my 70s and when I gave up ice climbing 15 years ago, I took to visiting SE Asia and have a very special person there who keeps asking me when I am coming. I am sad because I can’t but I still have my short curved ice axe by my french windows and if the police do come, the first poor deluded sod will get the pick straight between the eyes!

342802 norfolksceptic, replying to norfolksceptic, 20, #483 of 2123 🔗

Morning all, there is clearly a long way to go and no doubt a lot more government inflicted pressure but I am more positive today than I was at the start of the week

A) the big tell for me is the demand for key worker places at school – last in March / April lots of parents (including me) were withdrawing their children and pretty much made the decision to close the schools almost for government. This time round the demand for key worker places is very large – appreciate there is economic necessity and people now know what they are taking on with home schooling – but whether they realise it or not we are fundamentally programmed (with tiny minority of exceptions) to protect our children and instinctively a lot of people are saying this isn’t a risk.

B) looking around where I live there is no difference in activity (if anything more) than there was in December

C) the lack of clapping and actually the fierceness of the pushback when it was proposed is a hopeful sign – but it took at couple of weeks to get going last time – so let’s see if they try and run it again next week – given how quickly the TV companies gave it air time suspect it had been planned for longer than it was public.

D) The ramping up of the fear and frequency of fat dictator on our screens – four times in five days – they are not mugs they know they are losing the narrative in terms of people’s behaviour and general view now of the levels of personal risk.

There is clearly going to be three or four weeks of NHS overwhelmed issues but after that there is nothing left to cry wolf over – how many people will buy the next “super ninja mutant scare” ?

342947 ▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to norfolksceptic, 8, #484 of 2123 🔗

The government have overplayed their hand, people have had enough with the nonsense

343037 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to FarBeyondDrivenDevil, #485 of 2123 🔗

Only at the margins – not the core.

343053 ▶▶ SimonCook, replying to norfolksceptic, 1, #486 of 2123 🔗

Good morning Norfolksceptic,

I can absolutely confirm point A is true.

My daughters Primary opened to everyone on Monday with a 73% attendance rate (as confirmed by the interim head). So approximately only 1/4 not sending their children in.

Since opening for children of keyworkers only, they initially wanted children to attend every day regardless of whether the keyworker parent was working every day or not, or had another parent WFH.

Yesterday that changed to, please can you let us know which days you actually need your child to be at school to accommodate all the requests for places we have had.

Best regards

Simon

343289 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to norfolksceptic, 1, #487 of 2123 🔗

Hopefully more people are waking up as looks like the threat of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Virus didn’t really have much effect.

342808 crimsonpirate, 1, #488 of 2123 🔗

Plenty of meat ATL today. Funnily enough I bet a Lockdown Zealot won’t bother to read something like “London hospitals really are in crisis” if it was presented to them.

342828 mj, replying to mj, 4, #489 of 2123 🔗

evening all
just a reminder from yesterday.
https://dailyexpose.co.uk/2021/01/07/children-scream-as-police-enter-home-without-permission-and-wrestle-parents-to-ground/
aren’t our police wonderful .
mind how you go

342881 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to mj, #490 of 2123 🔗

a sign of things to come maybe

342914 ▶▶ Crystal Decanter, replying to mj, #491 of 2123 🔗

My IP/Internet has been hacked several times and I just don’t know how to fix it

342935 ▶▶ Waldorf, replying to mj, #492 of 2123 🔗

Dixon of Dock Green was sometimes discussed in the 1980s as it was clear police did not particularly fit the ideal of that show (I doubt if they ever did). The Sweeney came out in the 1970s and was considered particularly graphic at the time.

344031 ▶▶▶ Richy_m_99, replying to Waldorf, #493 of 2123 🔗

Life on Mars.. “Give yourselves up, you are surrounded by armed bastards.”

343137 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to mj, #494 of 2123 🔗

I’m not sure if this is true https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9125789/Are-police-taking-Covid-crackdown-far.html seems to have the same footage but no mention of a child returning from hospital.

343166 ▶▶▶ mj, replying to arfurmo, 1, #495 of 2123 🔗

note there are two videos. a short 1.09 as per the mail site and a longer 4.45 version on the site i linked to . there is reference to a child with epilepsy

342829 chaos, replying to chaos, 3, #496 of 2123 🔗

Is the government going to start killing us off? Serious question.

342840 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to chaos, 8, #497 of 2123 🔗

The sceptics or everyone?

I think the sceptics are ripe fodder for the cull personally.

We will (sceptics) be at best a public health hazard and at worst a psychiatric in-patient. I’m not joking.

342848 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Country Mumkin, 5, #498 of 2123 🔗

Your final point is perceptive. This is what I feel. Any real kickback could potentially be used against someone in that way and that, having had experience of how the psychiatric industry works, truly terrifies me.

342865 ▶▶ Sceptic Al, replying to chaos, 1, #499 of 2123 🔗

Too many ‘thought-crimes’ under the Mental Health Act 1983, only a period of ‘care’ in a ‘Joy Camp’ (now ‘Nightingales’) will ‘cure’ sceptics. Soldiers and nurses ready, courtesy of the Ministry of Love 🙂

342867 ▶▶ Crystal Decanter, replying to chaos, 6, #500 of 2123 🔗

If they gave us safe passage to our own town where we could all live – I would take it

344137 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to chaos, #501 of 2123 🔗

They started last March. with the care home policy.

342830 Crystal Decanter, 1, #502 of 2123 🔗

archive.today
keep a record of the collaborators wherever possible
Just pop the url in the top; press go and it will save forever

342831 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 5, #503 of 2123 🔗

I have much respect for Alistair Haimes. I saw him turning on Twitter a while ago.

I feel I understand two other motives that may be related to becoming centrist.

1. Assume freedom. Without question. As soon as we talk about freedoms being taken away, we talk as if we never had them to begin with.

2. If now is the moment we are told there is a solution (and what possible other solution could there be apart from a vaccine if natural herd immunity is deemed too cruel), then as he says, after vax complete this goes away.

Finally I see something else too, although, I may be wrong in his case…

To take a strong position, one must have tools and flex to move from it. He uses data well. He says he is seeing something different now and this is changing his thoughts about an approach.

It is easy for most of us to submit to confirmation bias; we know lockdowns don’t work and we want to prove it through any means possible. But we don’t really have the means to prove it. We can just talk about how the cases/tests/hospitalisations/deaths are not captured/reported appropriately. And that is very hard. Partly because were being rational and interpretation and aka us is can differ. And party because some of this could be fraud as suspected by Yeadon and Fuellmich etc

So I actually quite like Alistair’s approach because

1. It doesn’t play war; strengthening the dominant narrative
2. It shows balance and consideration
3. It demonstrates we are waiting for said solution as promised
4. It will keep the behavioural psychologists and mass media on their toes… ha ha ha!!

So, I’m for balance. And I’m for not energising the opposition in ways that they will use against us.

This is the last lockdown. I agree with Alistair.

342897 ▶▶ Marialta, replying to Country Mumkin, 5, #504 of 2123 🔗

I’ve thought hard about this and I agree that we now need to stop banging on about the NHS and move quickly ( as 2 others have said here already) to a highly critical position on collateral damage. We need to spread all the data we can on the cost of lockdowns in both monetary and human terms.

343247 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Marialta, 1, #505 of 2123 🔗

I think everyone needs to do whatever they feel is right. However, sociologically, group-think and tribes behave in odd ways. I do feel the sceptics will be further branded as dis-information nutters and so it would be worth considering long term strategies too.

343029 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Country Mumkin, 8, #506 of 2123 🔗

becoming centrist”

This isn’t some moderate., balanced position.

Let’s tell it as it is – it’s accepting falsehood as reasonable – i.e capitulation to lies.

342836 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 6, #507 of 2123 🔗

The masses of hysteria and ignorance have demanded pointless testing when people enter/return to UK. The government have seen the opportunity and granted them their wishes. So;

lots of extra expense,

when returning from the family holiday – what happens if one of your kids has a false positive,

but don’t worry – my crystal ball tells me that you will be able to forgo the test if you have a vaccination certificate – (the opportunity mentioned earlier)

342907 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Major Panic, 3, #508 of 2123 🔗

Yep. Just another pointless business/freedom breaking measure. No benefit to public health here.

It will be popular with the public though, many of them believe you can stop an already endemic virus by closing the borders. They also believe that stopping/curtailing travel from areas with LESS covid (or maybe more accurately, fewer positive tests), can reduce rates here.

Don’t get it. But then I don’t get much of what the public thinks these days.

342974 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 8, #509 of 2123 🔗

In a world where intelligent people still believe in gods we’re totally and utterly fucked. People will believe any old shite and they will also try and shit in your mouth to shut you up. There is no hope. The only way out of this is too switch off the control grid. Ultimately the total destruction of the mobile phone and internet will free us from this Technocratic nightmare. No one wants to face it but we walked into this because we all like to sit on our arses looking at pish on a screen instead of living and now to continue with this type of life they are gonna kill those of us who just want to live our lives as we see fit. if you’re not a Libertarian at this point you are the problem

342837 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 20, #510 of 2123 🔗

The utter failure of Clap For Carers 2 is good news for us as make no mistake Boris will be very aware of what this means for where the public mood is at the moment as that’s pretty much all he cares about. I fully expect the BBC to double-down on it next week though and push the clap for all it’s worth.

342872 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to Achilles, 5, #511 of 2123 🔗

This could be a clap trap. <sorry>

342874 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Basileus, 2, #512 of 2123 🔗

Apology accepted.

342908 ▶▶▶ Crimson Avenger, replying to Basileus, 1, #513 of 2123 🔗

I doubt if anyone will notice it on top of all the other claptrap.

342966 ▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to Achilles, 3, #514 of 2123 🔗

The last clap was just mass virtue signalling, basically the two minute hate inverted and dressed up as showing obedience and love for the sacred NHS. I never took part in it, I’d rather they’d reform the damn thing, cut out the mass bureaucracy and give it the proper resources to cope with all the seasonal lurgees we get every year.

342970 ▶▶ Annie, replying to Achilles, 3, #515 of 2123 🔗

The first crap clap was during a balmy spring. This one is during a cold winter.

342844 rockoman, replying to rockoman, 14, #516 of 2123 🔗

The definition of ‘covid patient’ is a patient, in hospital for any reason, who has recently given a positive PCR result.

WE are all aware of the impact the crisis has had on the normal functioning of the NHS within the past year. There have been hundreds of thousands of missed cancer treatments and screenings.

This graph from NHS England via the BBC

comment image

This situation continued through the summer and into Autumn.

My point is that at some point hospitals are going to start getting occupied by many people whose missed cancer treatments/screenings within the past year, have led to a situation where their symptoms are such as to require urgent admission.

Perhaps that is beginning.There must now be quite a few people,in whom cancer would have beeb detected or treated in Spring and Summer, who are now suffering the negative consequences of that.

I don’t know how much of a lead time there might be, but sooner or later there must be an impact.

342928 ▶▶ RickH, replying to rockoman, 4, #517 of 2123 🔗

That ~50% drop in 2020 is horrific in its implications, even if ultimate diagnoses don’t fall in precise ration.

342855 David T, replying to David T, 25, #518 of 2123 🔗

A doctor friend who works in a hospital says ones of the reasons why the numbers of people in hospital with Covid is high is that there is a new policy meaning they have to wait 14 days to send any patient who has had Covid back to a care home from when they first test positive for Covid in the hospital. This means you have scenarios where a patient is admitted to hospital for a non Covid reason then test positive for Covid and then block a bed for 14 days even if the issue they were admitted for has been resolved and their Covid symptoms do not require hospital treatment. This adds up very quickly and is putting a lot of pressure on beds. These types of patients also require a high level of care putting extra pressure on the staff. I can see why they don’t want to send Covid positive patients back to care homes but it would be interesting to get more detail on what these numbers looked like

342883 ▶▶ Adamb, replying to David T, 9, #519 of 2123 🔗

Interesting. Increasingly it seems tha most of these ‘pressures’ are self-inflicted.

342960 ▶▶▶ alw, replying to Adamb, 4, #520 of 2123 🔗

Indeed they are. It was foolhardy to get rid of the convalescent homes where vulnerable patients were for rehab before they were discharged home. This crazy decision has resulted in the many being bed blockers. We need to bring back this sort of facility where groups of patients can be cared for and safe environments before being sent back home or to a care facility.

342885 ▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to David T, 6, #521 of 2123 🔗

It beggars belief that NHS management did not think through these foreseeable problems and put in place mitigation measures during the summer.
In the case you document, the patients are well but need to be isolated. So a solution that suggests itself is to have convalescence wards for this purpose.
And while they are in a regular ward for 14 days they are at risk from further infection.

343002 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Andy Riley, 8, #522 of 2123 🔗

I have tended to become more cynical.

Why , when the whole summer period demonstrably took pressure off the NHS with exceptionally low infections, was the opportunity not taken to prepare for a normal autumn rise?

Just incompetence – or planned myth-making about a non-existent resurgence?

343581 ▶▶▶▶ Sceptical Steve, replying to RickH, 1, #523 of 2123 🔗

Summer was a particularly happy time for those at the local NHS Trust, where my wife works. The place was largely deserted, with even some clinical staff being encouraged to WFH, to the point where many staff working at the hospital found the working conditions unnatural and stressful. My wife’s hospital didn’t get invited to contribute to the TikTok videos, but she walked into the Physiotherapy department one day and found them entirely focussed on teaching each other how to juggle!

342888 ▶▶ WasSteph, replying to David T, 8, #524 of 2123 🔗

Don’t forget they also kindly move such patients to the red zone. Thereby increasing the chances a positive test becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

342889 ▶▶ rockoman, replying to David T, 6, #525 of 2123 🔗

Yes.

I think the statistical waters are going to become increasingly muddied from now on

My post below on missed cancer treatments and screenings points out one reason why this is so.

However, there must also have been many cardiovascular events – heart attacks and strokes – during the past ten months, which because they were not optimally dealt with, will require more hospital treatment than they would have done under normal conditions.

I would also expect social isolation start to take a toll on people’s health as time goes on, leading to even more admissions.

Of course, many of these will produce a positive PCR, leading to them being classified as ‘covid patients’.

PCR and the 28 day rule (for classification as a covid patient), really are the gift that keeps on giving-

342916 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to David T, 8, #526 of 2123 🔗

Why arent they using the Nightingales for these people? That would be the obvious solution. They are not ICU and are very low maintenance. Yet another NHS cock up that is feeding the problem.

342926 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Chris Hume, 8, #527 of 2123 🔗

Whenever someone asks about the mothballed Nightingales they are told “lack of staff”. What happened to the army of retired medics who signed up to help last year? I know it’s recently been commented upon that there is a 21 page questionnarie for them to complete, which begs a further question, why was it made so difficult for them to help out …

342937 ▶▶▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to kh1485, 2, #528 of 2123 🔗

It has been suggested that student nurses and doctors could be used to either staff these or back fill.

342930 ▶▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to Chris Hume, 7, #529 of 2123 🔗

I think a better solution would be to add a convalescence ward to each hospital where space permits. This could either be some sort of prefab building where there is space in hospital grounds or reopening mothballed wards. The hospital I worked at up to 2014 regularly had one or two ward empty to keep costs down. I’d like to know how many such wards there are across the country.

342933 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Chris Hume, 9, #530 of 2123 🔗

They can’t staff the Nightingales and they never could. They were a combination of vanity project and a response to the cries of “something must be done”.

344148 ▶▶▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to Charlie Blue, #531 of 2123 🔗

Another expensive white elephant in a whole pack of expensive white elephants.

342919 ▶▶ RickH, replying to David T, 7, #532 of 2123 🔗

The use of PCR+ results is also a self-fulfilling prophecy, whereby the larger proportion are not unwell (the precise proportion is hard to establish – but it vastly magnifies apparent illness).

This is all on top of the major reduction in ward beds, and the effects on staff absence.

Truth told, PCR testing has created an uncontrollable monster (which, of course, from one perspective, was its aim).

342929 ▶▶▶ rockoman, replying to RickH, 5, #533 of 2123 🔗

.
Yes – bang on!

If they want to keep this going for years, then unfortunately that is statistically possible – without any real pandemic.

All you need is a somewhat higher death rate, provided by lockdowns and their knock-on effects, many of whom will inevitably ‘test positive’ and hey presto you have got yourself a neverending pandemic.

The only real question is:

“Do the authorities want it to end”?
.

343010 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to rockoman, 3, #534 of 2123 🔗

… and, of course, the one flaw in the plan is that the deaths have not emerged. A fact that the MSM will not expose you to.

342940 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to David T, 6, #535 of 2123 🔗

The soution seems so simple.Use LFT and new PCR test with Ct value.If you are hardpressed send them back with a neg LFT.If not use a LFT and PCR test with Ct and send them back. C-19 are only infectious up to 10 days.Why can’t they sort out this with an intelligent testing system? How can we have bedblockers with remnants of non viable virus givng meaningless PCR test?

342968 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to swedenborg, 2, #536 of 2123 🔗

100%

343012 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, 4, #537 of 2123 🔗

As you say – it seems simple. But, of course – to be cynical – it doesn’t produce the desired outcome.

No rational system would be using PCR given what is known.

343022 ▶▶ smileymiley, replying to David T, 1, #538 of 2123 🔗

That’s a very good take on it.

342869 garry a, replying to garry a, 7, #539 of 2123 🔗

Not a popular viewpoint on here I suspect, but I think Alistair Haimes is correct; the situation has changed and we should adapt.
For me, the fundamental reasons for being a lockdown skeptic were:

  1. Lockdowns don’t work.
  2. There was no exit plan.

Point 1 is still valid. But it’s pretty obvious that overwhelming evidence isn’t nudging the viewpoint of most people, who seem to be driven by some sort of emotional and perhaps irrational response. We’re flogging a dead horse with this.

Point 2 has changed. The vaccine program gives a route out. This is where we should focus our energy; trying to hold our politicians to account in terms of a lockdown rollback plan that gets us back to normal as soon as possible.

We can spend the next few months trying to show the folly of what’s already happened, with endless data that shows lockdowns don’t work or we can start to make our voices heard on setting exit dates and exit measures.

Don’t get me wrong, I firmly believe lockdowns don’t work and that covid has been monumentally mismanaged. I am someone who has not complied throughout – never worn a mask, kept my offices fully open, never tracked and traced, had birthday parties and a normal Christmas, etc. But I don’t see any value in being the person who says ‘I told you so’ a couple of years down the line. Don’t lose sight of the prize – we want our liberty restored.

342875 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to garry a, 22, #540 of 2123 🔗

The problem with this is we cannot have our liberty restored if this strategy is seen as viable in the future.

We will forever have the threat of restrictions hanging over our heads as a response to respiratory viruses.

343118 ▶▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 5, #541 of 2123 🔗

This is the key point…lockdowns are now ‘on the statute book’ and they will be used as the default policy from now on to deal with viruses. To just push for the vaccines is pathetic short termism. It does not deal with the real problem…..its not just that lockdowns dont work it is that they are WRONG IN PRINCIPLE.

342879 ▶▶ Adamb, replying to garry a, 19, #542 of 2123 🔗

The issue with that is that if people believe the lockdowns were effective there will be no resistance if and when they are proposed in the future. Not that there will be anyway it seems.

342895 ▶▶▶ garry a, replying to Adamb, 8, #543 of 2123 🔗

I agree. But that’s tomorrow’s battle. Work to get our liberty restored and then in calmer times address the fact that lockdowns don’t work. It’s simply wasted effort at the moment

342942 ▶▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to garry a, 9, #544 of 2123 🔗

My argument is that any liberty bestowed on the nation, by the government, because of the vaccine, is not liberty.

342950 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to garry a, 3, #545 of 2123 🔗

And it will stop people listening when the real battle starts to highlight that it is lockdown, masks, T and T, scientists crying wolf with lies and, quite possibly, all of the above precipitating a more virulent mutation than would have happened with a GBD approach, that has caused this crisis. But this is much more of a crisis for the NHS than anything seen, outside of a few London hospitals, in March and April; that it is self inflicted is immaterial right here and right now.

342910 ▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Adamb, 9, #546 of 2123 🔗

I think you underestimate the fact that people look at what is right in front of them. When the vaccine comes and people are no longer terrified, and the MSM aren’t churning out fear and panic every day, but reporting on all the harms that ‘Covid’ (ahem), has caused, then the anti lockdown message will gain traction and will be in the ascendancy. As more comparative ‘real life’ data and analysis becomes available, and the emotion recedes, the lockdown zealots will be on the back foot sooner than they would like. The vaccine is a double edged sword for them.

342952 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Chris Hume, 2, #547 of 2123 🔗

Exactly, it is time to bide quiet now.

342962 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Chris Hume, 6, #548 of 2123 🔗

I don’t get that logic. Strip away the PCR noise and where are we at? It’s so hard to say, I think your argument is based more on a pragmatic approach to getting away from lockdowns rather than actually wanting to be convinced of the situation.

Yes, numbers may be high in hospitals. However, we need to ask if we had lateral flow for example, how many more staff would be avaliable, how many more beds, would there be more discharged at a faster rate ebecause of testing negative?

The PCR is the killer here. We are in a constant fog and we may see a light, but for me it’s not an exit, it’s a train coming straight towards us

342985 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 10, #549 of 2123 🔗

Suddenly, I’m seeing echoes of the official panic narrative.

What are the facts?

Mortality shows this to be an average autumn-winter infection season. Nothing exceptional happening.

… and yet the NHS is being treated as if there was an exceptional viral epidemic event in progress.

No there isn’t. There is an exceptional political event in progress to which the Alastair Haimes of this world decide to lend there new-found assent.

342898 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to garry a, 11, #550 of 2123 🔗

I generally agree, but we have to make sure that ‘Lockdown’ is never the solution to anything like this ever again. Unless it’s something hugely deadly like Ebola where a short sharp one might have some clear and tangible benefit.

343405 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Chris Hume, 2, #551 of 2123 🔗

No, not even for Ebola. If there was an Ebola outbreak and people were dropping dead in the streets do you think it would even be necessary for the government to tell people to stay indoors?

342903 ▶▶ RickH, replying to garry a, 11, #552 of 2123 🔗

The vaccine program gives a route out.”

Apart from the obvious dangers that have been much discussed – the under-tested snake-oil syndrome, driven by non-medical interests, there is another major danger in taking this naive stance.

We have seen totally barmy NPI measures being swallowed by the public on the basis of a false narrative. The over-use of putative vaccines in the interests of the industry then becomes the next stage in this coup. The unquestioning submission becomes endless.

I have seen enough in nine months to know that there are no limits to the cynical exploitation of the populace.

342905 ▶▶ rockoman, replying to garry a, 10, #553 of 2123 🔗

Do you really think that vaccinations offer an exit plan?

Hasn’t it already been made clear that restrictions – masks, SD – will remain?

342944 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to rockoman, 9, #554 of 2123 🔗

There will be rows aplenty within the corridors of power about who thought it was a good idea to reintroduce Seal Clapping Thursday which backfired badly.
They know public support is at its lowest, some at least will be scrabbling to escape the fuhrerbunker before the end comes.

343080 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to karenovirus, 1, #555 of 2123 🔗

It will be interesting to see if those in power will turn up the propaganda up a level and try to get the clapping started again next week or let the idea rest.

We could do with several weeks bad weather to really make the public fed up and questioning why the establishment didn’t prepare better for the winter.
Many people are selfish and only care about when job losses, depression and suicides happen to people close to them particularly if they have a comfortable life. Don’t think the population will be happy if their vaccines are delayed either.

342912 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to garry a, 11, #556 of 2123 🔗

The vaccine program will be repeated periodically. Acceptance of it is acceptance of the idiotic policy that drove it. Don’t be naive.

The truth is the truth. This has been an omnishambles from day 1 of using hypothetical models and vague data to convince you that the Devil is amongst us.

If you have tried this for any other safety critical system you would be in jail. Do not lose sight of that.

342931 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to mhcp, 13, #557 of 2123 🔗

That’s right the template is set now. If someone coughs in China from something newish we lock down until a vaccine is developed and distributed. The emergency legislation will remain on the statute books in some form under the justification of needing to act quickly in the interests of public health without the delay of democratic process. The liberties have gone. They will be able to turn them on and off as they like from now on.

342994 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Achilles, 4, #558 of 2123 🔗

… and it’s no good blaming China, even though they are laughing all the way to the bank, with an increasing GDP as they mop up.

342913 ▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to garry a, 5, #559 of 2123 🔗

garry,
See my reply to David T below. Another aspect to our way forward may be to 1) confirm that the current NHS crisis is at least in part self inflicted 2) campaign on the basis of specific reforms to NHS management with concrete solutions that could be implemented in time for next year.

Step 1 should be possible when NHS activity data sets are published in the coming weeks, supported by anecdotal evidence from insiders.
Step 2 would requires some inside knowledge and business analysis skills.

A key part of this is maintaining a constructive spirit and focusing on organisational and management solutions.

342953 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to garry a, 4, #560 of 2123 🔗

And for those that refuse the vaccine? Liberty remains I hope

342956 ▶▶ Les Tricoteuses, replying to garry a, 5, #561 of 2123 🔗

Yes the vaccine program offers a way out but at what cost. I cannot support what is basically a mass trial of a new therapy masquerading as a vaccine. It merely ameliorates the symptoms and does not confer immunity. The vast majority are being led to believe it will make them immune.

342963 ▶▶▶ Annie, replying to Les Tricoteuses, 3, #562 of 2123 🔗

Doesn’t matter a hoot what they believe, so long the Fascists think they have been successfully fooled.

342873 mikec, replying to mikec, 20, #563 of 2123 🔗

Fear not fellow sceptics, as that famous WW2 quote goes ‘ you know you’re directly over your target when the flak is at its heaviest’. The Governments attempts to scare the 15m people it needs to be vaccinated, to get itself out of the mess it’s got itself into, is already failing. Who else can they blame but the Lockdown Sceptics, I think when they lift the protesting ban they will be surprised at the numbers who turn out to reform the NHS /No more lockdown marches. Boris and his mates can feel the ides of March creeping ever closer, they know their political careers are fatally wounded and they are lashing out at those they see as the cause. We should celebrate being ‘cancelled’ and wear it as a badge of honour.

342924 ▶▶ Crystal Decanter, replying to mikec, 9, #564 of 2123 🔗

Herd Mutiny

342932 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to mikec, 10, #565 of 2123 🔗

In one way I want them to find their 15m vaccinees asap because as soon as they reach a respectable number the government can claim Victory and let us get back to normal.

On the other hand the easier it is made for them them the more likely they are to do it again so a nice nest egg for them and thei big pharma mates.

342941 ▶▶ Templeton, replying to mikec, 2, #566 of 2123 🔗

The quote gave me a little lift. Thank you

342954 ▶▶ Biker, replying to mikec, 5, #567 of 2123 🔗

you’re fucking dreaming pal. Fuck sake. This isn’t going away and is gonna get worse. To remain a free person is gonna take bottle. We are gonna have to deal with the state thugs trying to ram the vaseline up our arses and trying to lock us in our house and deny us the ability to move. Make no mistake within two years we will have armed revolutionaries fighting the state. I too sometimes get the feeling that maybe this is a losing battle for them and we’ll get back to normal but in reality our nation has been taken over by people who take their orders from fuck knows who but one thing is for sure we didn’t elect them, we elected people who sold out to them and they ain’t going back. By 2030 you won’t anything and you’ll be happy.

343344 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Biker, 1, #568 of 2123 🔗

Make no mistake within two years we will have armed revolutionaries fighting the state.”

I actually believe you are probably correct on this. They are pushing so hard that it is inevitable some will see no other way to respond.

The problems with that are threefold (at least).

First, innocents will die and many more will suffer.

Second, it will make things far worse, in many ways, before it can possibly make them better.

Third, there’s no guarantee in the real world that the right side will win such a struggle. They didn’t in, for instance, revolutionary Russia, or China. Any illusions that Brits are any longer (if they ever were) unusually moderate or liberty-inclined have been harshly and incontrovertibly dismissed by the snitches, the abusers of and apologists for power, the demonising calls for suppression and punishment of dissenters.

If the totalitarians keep pushing as they seem inclined to do, there might be no choice, or we might get it anyway. But violence is not an attractive option.

344155 ▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to mikec, 1, #569 of 2123 🔗

Usually when things start to get stupid its often a sign that the dam is breaking

342891 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 15, #570 of 2123 🔗

Morning all.

Observations from my few days in the office, I’ve only been in for a couple of hours 1st thing – 07:00 – 09:30ish.

My sceptical colleague is struggling and is fed up with traveling with the masked sheople and has let off a few tirades when at bus stops and on the bus. Also tells me every bus has all the windows open and they are freezing, every time he closes one the bus driver either insists it is opened or the driver stops the bus and opens it. Told him to stay strong.

He has managed to find a couple more of us within the office and 1 of his team as started to question things but is in fear of being bullied by her other colleagues. Told him to encourage her to question, question, question and seek out the actual facts and ignore MSM.

A few builders in the building, mostly masked albeit for show, pointless, get rid of the disgusting things, they are all young fit tradesmen.

Local testing centre empty each day I’ve driven past, although I have driven past about 09:30, hardly queuing around the block, 3 goons on the door standing around freezing and playing with their phones. Good!

Over and out for now.

342902 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to stefarm, 1, #571 of 2123 🔗

roger – have a good day!

342948 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to stefarm, 1, #572 of 2123 🔗

My local test centre now asks that you sit in your car and do the test yourself. Pro level science

342957 ▶▶▶ Annie, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #573 of 2123 🔗

Up yours, eh?

342965 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #574 of 2123 🔗

This test centre is in a local library on a busy road with no parking facilities.

Strange place to have it but no doubt the local council are being well paid for staging it.

343164 ▶▶▶▶ Crimson Avenger, replying to stefarm, #575 of 2123 🔗

Ours is in the municipal car park, which is also closed to motor traffic for the duration.

342982 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to stefarm, 4, #576 of 2123 🔗

I wonder if anyone has ever tried to explain why the mantra ”ventilate ventilate” isn’t at odds with the wearing of muzzles in the open air.

342925 Basics, replying to Basics, 4, #577 of 2123 🔗

Day time TVs very own Martin Lewis tweeted avec cool about his shiny brand new covid-distance tag. The tweet has now been deleted -slated? Here is a screen capture of the influencer’s brag he presumably no longer wants people to see.

https://twitter.com/MaizyDaizyZzzz/status/1347476425310404608?s=20

342981 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Basics, 1, #578 of 2123 🔗

That is hilarious.

343009 ▶▶ Wolver, replying to Basics, 2, #579 of 2123 🔗

If they are spending money on and implementing these things, does it mean anti social distancing is here to stay?

343038 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Wolver, -1, #580 of 2123 🔗

Obviously there’s a possible logic to what you say. Also I can remind you of Sinclair C5 and add to that the BBC are usibg tv tax to tag their 22 thousand staff. Does the BBC set the trend for anything of such nature?

I would guess these tags will record the number of ‘bumps’ to feed into management.

One thing however, whatever tge outcome of the tag it does seem quite a large gamble to adopt on the back of incompetence.

343534 ▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to Basics, #581 of 2123 🔗

The Biased Bullshitting Covidians days are numbered anyway. The bleeping SD tags is just the latest in a never ending line of idiocy (all the woke drivel etc). I’m so glad they are starting to get defunded, their coverage over the pandemic has been nothing short of alarmist.

342949 Mutineer, replying to Mutineer, 21, #582 of 2123 🔗

Debbie Hicks, the lady who was arrested in her own home for filming an empty hospital has been arrested again. The treatment she received was barbaric. It was a stark difference to the ‘kneeling’ that took place when BLM were demonstrating.

‘I’m sure you all heard I was arrested in Parliament Square yesterday.
Three of us were lined up in the freezing temperatures yesterday in the middle of parliament square for an hour with hands cuffed behind our back. We were then held for a further 2-3 hours outside Kentish Town Police Station – with the cuffs still behind our backs. When I was finally taken in (about 3:30-4pm) I was detained for about 4 hours without the offer of food or water and ignoring my overly swollen hands from the prolonged wearing of cuffs and where I couldn’t remove my jewellery.The nurse said they looked ‘fine’.
I had the shakes you get when you’ve been out in the cold too long and managed to warm up after about 4 hours.
They ignored me ringing the bell. I demanded a solicitor and complained after excuses there was a ‘computer glitch’ they sent the superintendent – who was very apologetic and agreed my hands were in a state. I finally spoke to the solicitor I had asked for at about 10:30 and he was very good and very concerned about my welfare. They let me out just before midnight without charge (it’s a non chargeable offence) pending ‘investigation.’
I was then taken care of by some amazing women that expressed and gave outmost kindness and love. I have genuinely never had this from people before and I was overwhelmed.
The other lady who was arrested is amazing and experienced the same abuse of her rights in custody and detention.
I finally got home this afternoon and have had a good sleep.
Once again, please don’t let these things scare you. They arrested us to scare others.
Boris was really scutinised about the real numbers in hospitals at a press conference today and was really on the backfoot.
Keep finding ways to open up the cracks and you must get out in huge numbers – it’s easier for them to arrest when you don’t show up.
We MUST be there for each other’

342977 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Mutineer, 15, #583 of 2123 🔗

Three of us were lined up in the freezing temperatures yesterday in the middle of parliament square for an hour with hands cuffed behind our back. We were then held for a further 2-3 hours outside Kentish Town Police Station – with the cuffs still behind our backs. When I was finally taken in (about 3:30-4pm) I was detained for about 4 hours without the offer of food or water and ignoring my overly swollen hands from the prolonged wearing of cuffs and where I couldn’t remove my jewellery.The nurse said they looked ‘fine’.
I had the shakes you get when you’ve been out in the cold too long and managed to warm up after about 4 hours.
They ignored me ringing the bell. I demanded a solicitor and complained after excuses there was a ‘computer glitch’ they sent the superintendent – who was very apologetic and agreed my hands were in a state. I finally spoke to the solicitor I had asked for at about 10:30 and he was very good and very concerned about my welfare. They let me out just before midnight without charge (it’s a non chargeable offence) pending ‘investigation.

This is of course exactly the kind of harassment and low level physical abuse routinely dished out to dissenters in authoritarian regimes (among whose numbers we must now count our own)

There is no doubt that the hypocrites in charge of applying these policies (for these kinds of things do not happen by accident, they are merely set up to be “deniable” by the perpetrators and by the authorities who permit and encourage them) will all have spent plenty of time piously denouncing such practices by enemy governments.

Contemptible, hypocritical scumbags who should be treated with contempt henceforth by any civilised person. There are clearly many of them at all levels, but short of full trials or a “reconciliation” process, we can identify for certain Cressida Dick, Priti Patel and Sadiq Khan as being prime suspects..

343047 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Mutineer, 6, #584 of 2123 🔗

The police wouldn’t dare to treat BLM protestors this way. This is the kind of inhumane treatment given to POWs. Still there are endless people defending the police saying there are lots of good officers – I don’t hear any condoning this.

Why do you seriously need to keep 2 women in handcuffs for hours out in the cold other than for an unlicensed form of punishment (fortunately it is harder for the police to give physical punishment beatings now like they used to due to camera footage). Under Khan, Patel and Dick anything seems to go.

343082 ▶▶▶ JaneHarry, replying to Darryl, 4, #585 of 2123 🔗

exposure to temperature extremes of hot or cold, or indeed being kept wet, and being made to stand or sit on narrow ledges for long periods, was on the repertoire of Stalin’s gulags – as detailed by Solzhenitsyn. sleep deprivation or being confined to tight spaces will be next, you’ll see

343155 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to JaneHarry, 2, #586 of 2123 🔗

Indeed. I suspect the Met officers are trying to get protestors to urinate themselves for some type of unofficial punishment or sadistic reasons some people particularly in high office have weird fetishes.

343105 ▶▶ Stephanos, replying to Mutineer, 2, #587 of 2123 🔗

On Monday, I attended a ‘Day of Prayer for the Pandemic and Brexit’ at our local Church. It was a rather dispiriting day with the usual stale platitudes, but in my ‘feedback’ I mentioned that someone had prayed for ‘those who had been left alone while dying’ and other things like that. And why had they been left alone? Because some feather-bedded overpaid bureaucrat had decreed it that’s why. In this country we used to applaud those Christians who stood up against cruel and unjust laws and this is what you have done so all credit to you and all contempt to those who sit back and simply mouth pious phrases.
I have never felt so much contempt for politicians and those in ‘authority’.
Off to distribute some ‘Back to Normal’ postcards shortly.

342958 captainbeefheart, replying to captainbeefheart, 4, #588 of 2123 🔗

At the end of Vernon Coleman’s videos, he usually signs off with “you are not alone, more and more people are waking up and once they are awake, they don’t go back to sleep” so it is disappointing that Alistair Haimes has ditched his scepticism.

Maybe he never fully awoke in the first place.

It would be hard for me to go back to a “the government know best after all and they have everyone’s best interest at heart, they really want to end lockdown and give us our freedoms back so we should continue to lock ourselves away until we are all vaccinated” position.

This might be because I never held that position in the first place – it always sounded a bit bonkers to me.

Maybe Vernon Coleman is wrong (he’s wrong about everything else in the known universe as we are all told). We’ll visit this site one day to find “Lockdown Sceptics 8-Jan-2031: This site is closing down because we were wrong about everything. We agree with SAGE”

342980 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to captainbeefheart, 8, #589 of 2123 🔗

“He gazed up at the enormous graph. Forty years it had taken him to learn what kind of facts were hidden beneath the models. O cruel, needless misunderstanding! O stubborn, self-willed exile from the scientific breast! Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved SAGE.”

342961 RickH, 5, #590 of 2123 🔗

I’ve just read the Alastair Haimes item in the Spectator.

Let’s not wrap things up : it is so flawed as to represent a white flag of anti-intellectualism, not a considered revision of opinion.

Suddenly, evidence-based analysis is thrown out the window with a capitulation to all the main myths from SAGE and government – based on a naive trust in a massively rushed set of vaccines.

We know that the Spectator has been got at – and here’s the result. If I was a telephone scam merchant, I’d really want this guy’s number!

342964 Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 6, #591 of 2123 🔗

So on a positive note, my daughter is back at school and the school was fairly busy this morning.

On a negative note, they plan to keep the windows open all day. Great strategy to prevent 5 year olds getting runny noses. ‘Pro level science’, as I saw posted below.

343144 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 1, #592 of 2123 🔗

I thought schools were all closed. Is that not the case?

343221 ▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Julian, #593 of 2123 🔗

They are open to children of “key workers” (I hate that term). The good news is that many more people seem to have decided that they are “key” this time around, as every class is open, albeit at reduced numbers, as opposed to everyone lumped into one or two “bubbles”.

I’d like to think it’s a good measure of rising opposition to school closures, but there’s no doubt some hypocritical “rules for thee and not for me” thinking going on too.

343608 ▶▶▶ Sceptical Steve, replying to Julian, #594 of 2123 🔗

It seemed to be business as usual at my local primary school yesterday. It wasn’t what I’d been led to expect.

342967 davews, 1, #595 of 2123 🔗

Some information about what is going on at the Excel Nightingale:
https://diamondgeezer.blogspot.com/
From Diamond Geezer, who does a daily blog of his travels, he lives in Tower Hamlets. No close up photos of the interior and it is a little unclear what is actually going on there. Interesting that has been used as a film studio during the summer months.

342969 Henry2, replying to Henry2, 5, #596 of 2123 🔗

Is the argument that witty and Vallance were right all along, or that the historical science is and that they got lampooned by the modellers and behavioural scientists into lockdown based on emotional logic and now the chickens have come home to roost?

We’ve known that this virus is on par (IFR) with a bad flu but he immune nativity of the population is larger thus hospital pressure in respiratory viral season will be higher. By simply ignoring this fact and ignoring trying to increase safely (as possible) community immunity we’ve simply exacerbated the usual winter with this new virus trying to rely on the vaccine which was always going to come too late. Relying on masks (with almost zero efficacy) and lockdowns which paradoxically increase the vulnerable mobility and put them at greater exposure to the virus in the community and nosocomially. Seems to me the result is the worst possible outcome, and as Witty and Vallance both said, something to avoid from day 1.

342997 ▶▶ Will, replying to Henry2, 5, #597 of 2123 🔗

Here is what Vallance said on March the 12th 2020:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-scientist-warns-coronavirus-lockdown-risks-more-deaths-a4386661.html

“If you completely locked down absolutely everything, probably for a period of four months or more then you would suppress this virus,” he told Sky News.

“All of the evidence from previous epidemics suggests that when you do that and then you release it, it all comes back again.
“The other part of this is to make sure that we don’t end up with a sudden peak again in the winter which is even larger which causes even more problems.

“So we want to suppress it, not get rid of it completely which you can’t do anyway, not suppress it so we get the second peak and also allow enough of us who are going to get mild illness to become immune to this to help with the whole population response which would protect everybody.”

343013 ▶▶▶ Henry2, replying to Will, 1, #598 of 2123 🔗

Thanks Will. Seems like a failed experiment happened between March 12th and now. I wonder if they’ll be uttering to themselves ‘i told you’ but scientific unorthodoxy tried to save everyone without thinking whether this was possible or even right.

343017 ▶▶▶▶ Henry2, replying to Henry2, #599 of 2123 🔗

If only we had a control population to compare with…

343143 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Will, #600 of 2123 🔗

What you’ve quoted from Vallance above makes no sense to me whatsoever

342971 Ganjan21, replying to Ganjan21, 2, #601 of 2123 🔗

It’s a bit out there but a lot of what is said here, especially in the 2nd half of the clip is true of what is happening now.

R.I.P Rik Mayall

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrHmXt1jgtw&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR12AuhsSdyn5pKpqzPveEgl42AX7h8uHQbUXhmpwwcBV4Q6Lj8Whsrqa-M

343050 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Ganjan21, 2, #602 of 2123 🔗

He knew!

342973 Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #604 of 2123 🔗

The ghoul Sridhar seems to have made an utterance on SkyNews. Partrick Heningsen points out some devi truth, others chip in with fair comment too. All in all and pleasing little twitter thread.

https://twitter.com/21WIRE/status/1347468336746143746?s=20

What the utterance was as highlighted by SkyNew was, “We’re in quite a deep pit and so we have to have a more proactive strategy” Impressive language from esteemed Devi Sridhar. Reveals what is going on in her head to describe all around us as quite a deep pit.

343036 ▶▶ Nobody2021, replying to Basics, -1, #605 of 2123 🔗

I don’t agree with Devi’s strategy of maximum suppression or zero covid (although I’m not sure if she is pushing for the latter these days). I think it’s too late for that and I get the impression she thinks that too.

I don’t think she’s evil just because she believes in a different strategy. We all probably have a similar objective of getting to the other side whilst minimising the damage and both sides have a different emphasis on what damage is more or less acceptable. Let’s not fall into the trap of painting everyone on the other side of the argument as the most extreme example.

She is right that we are in a deep pit and that is because the government have had no real strategy other than to see where the numbers take us whilst waiting for the cavalry to come save us.

In some ways I’d have preferred it if they had chosen either zero covid or the focussed protection route as then there would have been a clear objective either way. Instead what we got was a real time guess and check experiment to see what worked and what didn’t, adding bits here or taking away bits there depending on how the virus spread.

343073 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Nobody2021, 6, #606 of 2123 🔗

She’s evil because she is driving us towards a relatively more evil society (a technocratic medico-totalitarian dystopia, basically, in which all the things we formerly thought were “rights” are now privileges to be withdrawn by government at need), and she has from the start misrepresented her qualifications to say the things she has said and the advice she has given and grossly lied about the dangers she has used to rationalise her proposed “solutions”.

We are not in a particularly “deep pit” societally. We are going through a period of increased pressure on our healthcare system due to a new endemic winter respiratory virus, and a small number of people will die or suffer bad health problems in the course of it. The misrepresentation of it as a “deep pit” and an “emergency” is precisely the kind of exaggeration always used by totalitarians and power-seekers when they try to take extraordinary power for themselves or for their proposed reorganisation of society.

343183 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nobody2021, 3, #607 of 2123 🔗

We disagee. She have had her soul sucked out and in entwined totally with the fraud of it all. She is in direct sicophantic communication with genocide tedros. Here mission in academic life has been to set up the global dept at edinburgh and serve the purpose she now does. This is much much deeper that a strategy she is not qualified to preside over. The manoeverings she has made to date are to serve the grand purpose. Alcohol going missing from our social lifes is something long in the making with sridhar at times present in that attack.

344274 ▶▶▶▶ frankfrankly, replying to Basics, #608 of 2123 🔗

Not everyone with a PhD is very clever (I’ve got one).

343915 ▶▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to Nobody2021, #609 of 2123 🔗

Where is your opposition to lockdown on principle? Is it just about what ‘works’ for you?

344324 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2021, replying to Boris Bullshit, #610 of 2123 🔗

Don’t understand your questions.

344273 ▶▶ frankfrankly, replying to Basics, #611 of 2123 🔗

She makes the 1000 people did of Covid today error every time.

342979 alw, replying to alw, 5, #612 of 2123 🔗

Excellent from Conservative Woman.

Today’s talking point: How many (or few) Covid deaths near you?”

In my area six deaths from the virus since March and this is in London. It would be most helpful if Sceptics readers could post on this site the situation in the localities.

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/todays-talking-point-how-many-or-few-covid-deaths-near-you/

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/causesofdeath/articles/deathsinvolvingcovid19interactivemap/2020-06-12

342984 ▶▶ Nobody2021, replying to alw, #613 of 2123 🔗

20 in my area which I believe covers around 60k people.

342996 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Nobody2021, #614 of 2123 🔗

8 in my postcode, though I see that they only have data up to the end of November at the local level (not that I am imagining there has been a huge increase since then).

343006 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to alw, #615 of 2123 🔗

14 in my area.

343051 ▶▶ cloud6, replying to alw, 1, #616 of 2123 🔗

Cant tell yo the covid-19 deaths but can tell you (ONS data) the monthly all death stats for a City of 260,000 souls.

Mar 1
Apr 115
M -15
J -17
Ju 12
A -17
S 11
Oct -11
Nov 4

The figures are a comparison with 2019, The minus figures show a decrease in deaths. You can see in Apr that there is a big increase.

343139 ▶▶ mj, replying to alw, 1, #617 of 2123 🔗

4 in my little area. Last census showed population of around 10000, so that is 0.04%.
current UK death rate around 9.5 per 1000 that is 0.95%
or put is another way… last year we should have had 95 deaths and we had 4 “covid” deaths – so around 4% of deaths were attributed to covid.

343985 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to alw, #618 of 2123 🔗

I went back through the local paper’s obituaries just to see if anybody I know had died and I hadn’t heard about it. I went back to last January and honestly there was absolutely NOTHING out of the ordinary about the numbers of dearly departed who sadlidied.

342986 Mark, 7, #619 of 2123 🔗

Meantime, this is how “cancel culture” operates (in this case on the coronapanic) to warp and distort the very foundations of what we think we “know” in our societies – dissenters hounded and pressured via their employers and harassment even of their families to shut up and stop saying controversial things:

Unfortunately we were forced to cancel..because he was strongly advised by his university to maintain silence and not speak publicly — to step back from this issue. I learned from a source that his university was heavily assailed by many complaints. Other scientists who have signed the review criticizing the PRC [sic – PCR obviously]..test, the “Retraction Request Letter”, a critique that got worldwide attention, have also been bombarded with attacks, their relatives are being called at night, and their universities assailed. Some are at risk of losing jobs. Even former employers are being harassed .”

https://twitter.com/naomirwolf/status/1347267414652641280

342988 chaos, replying to chaos, 22, #620 of 2123 🔗

First the tory party came for the poor, but I was not poor so I did not speak up. Then they came for the unemployed, made some of them work for free, but I was not unemployed and I agree with the Daily Mail that they are all scum, so I did not speak up. Then the tory party came for the sick and disabled, made it difficult for them to get benefits, even killed some of them, but I didn’t give a shit about those fakers. Then they closed everything down but I was able to work from home so happy days. Then they closed all the pubs but I get my wine from Waitrose so again happy days. Then they came for the schools but my sharp elbows made sure Jemima and Edward got A’s for the exams they did not take. Then all the business closures started to affect my job and I couldn’t go anywhere unless I had a rushed unnecessary vaccine and my wife’s cancer was missed and I couldn’t hug my mum in the care home and finally I woke up.

343023 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to chaos, 8, #621 of 2123 🔗

They may well be the ‘evil’ party the left have been saying for years, unfortunately the other options such as Labour as equally as bad. I would like to see government massively reduced in size so they are unable to impose this type of tyranny on the population again – wishful thinking. I am sure new state roles will be found for the ‘covid marshals’ to make a nuisance of themselves.

343086 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to chaos, 2, #622 of 2123 🔗

Kier Starmer- lockdown more, lockdown sooner.

343474 ▶▶ Biker, replying to chaos, #623 of 2123 🔗

I hate to break it to you but it was the Labour party that turned on the poor. Under Thatcher you got your money no questions asked it was Blair that brought in all the bullshit and outsourced it to some corrupt people to skim off a fortune for the state. Anyway there should be welfare of any kind whatsoever.

343998 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to chaos, 3, #624 of 2123 🔗

Blair introduced The Jobseekers Allowance which brought in sanctioning of benefits for not looking for work hard enough and other minor rules breaking. This has brought misery to millions. The Tories extended it and made it even worse. Food banks everywhere. The UK has the highest child povery levels in Europe.

Both parties are evil.

342992 alw, replying to alw, 3, #625 of 2123 🔗

More excellence from Conservative Woman. The You Tube video made our day.

https://youtu.be/trnpediKoyw

343107 ▶▶ Jo, replying to alw, 1, #626 of 2123 🔗

Yes, saw a twitter item about the same subject yesterday:

The British Government has released rules for sex during the new COVID-19 lockdowns. The rules state you should wear masks during the act, avoid kissing, and avoid any face-to-face contact. They even said “your best sexual partner is yourself or someone within your household”.

Person posting this said something like: now they’re telling us we must wank or do incest!

343127 ▶▶▶ mj, replying to Jo, 2, #627 of 2123 🔗

but dont kill grandma…..
a friend of mine told me he was into flagellation, necrophilia and bestiality
I told him it was pointless – he was flogging a dead horse

343167 ▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Jo, #628 of 2123 🔗

I believe this was actually from the Terence Higgins Trust.

343923 ▶▶▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #629 of 2123 🔗

They sound a barrel of laughs!

343000 redbirdpete, replying to redbirdpete, 8, #630 of 2123 🔗

So. What happens if none of this works? So far the latest lockdown actually seems to have made things worse rather than better. It’s been in operation since Tier 4 was expanded to nearly everywhere, as Toby points out – I refuse to believe that pubs selling takeaway in the middle of winter has any effect on anything.

The vaccines will not prevent the spread. Will they prevent hospitalisations? Maybe. But they may even increase bed occupation if they – and they hopefully will – help people to survive.

The vaccine roll-out already seems to be a hopeless muddle.

I suspect an every-increasing tightening of the screws until disaster of one sort or another shatters the illusion.

343008 ▶▶ Crystal Decanter, replying to redbirdpete, 7, #631 of 2123 🔗

They will just stop reporting on it when it is convenient
Just like the kids in cages during the Obama/Biden years

343024 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to redbirdpete, 6, #632 of 2123 🔗

It’s a given that it’s not going to work

343078 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to redbirdpete, 4, #633 of 2123 🔗

If these vaccines actually DO harm certain people, then for a while the hospitals really will be ”overwhelmed” – at least till all the over 70s have been weeded out and disposed of, the the bodies shovelled into the plague pit, and the younger ones (and the hospital staff) have recovered.
Is that another chapter of the Great Reset?

343335 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to redbirdpete, #634 of 2123 🔗

Quietly stop doing PCR tests and move to lateral flow.
Problem solved and crisis over.

343005 Jo, replying to Jo, 26, #635 of 2123 🔗

Ernesto Araujo, Foreign Affairs minister, Brazil. He gets it.
“Brazil is a founding member of the UN, and hence, is committed to its basic principles: peace and security, cooperation among nations, respect for human rights, and fundamental freedoms,” Araujo told the UN.
“COVID-19 must not be taken as a pretext to advance agendas that extrapolate from the constitutional structure of the UN system,” he added.
The Brazilian minister went on to say, “Fundamental freedoms are not an ideology. Human dignity requires freedom as much as it requires health and economic opportunities.
“Those who dislike freedom always try to benefit from moments of crisis to preach the curtailing of freedom. Let’s not fall for that trap.
“Totalitarian social control is not the remedy for any crisis. Let’s not make democracy and freedom one more victim of COVID-19.”

343025 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Jo, 4, #636 of 2123 🔗

Good chap.

343042 ▶▶ rockoman, replying to Jo, 5, #637 of 2123 🔗

Researching emigration to Brazil right now,

343119 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Jo, #638 of 2123 🔗

Source?

343125 ▶▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to Jo, #640 of 2123 🔗

ta

343220 ▶▶ Old Bill, replying to Jo, 2, #641 of 2123 🔗

Excellent words.

He’ll be accidentally bumping into a covid tipped umbrella any day now.

343011 CivilianNotCovidian, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 18, #642 of 2123 🔗

REAL TIME EXPERIENCE:
Walked into local bakery. One woman inside with a young child and a baby in a pram. I adore babies, don’t see enough of them anymore. Stood in front of pram cooing at baby who smiled and smiled at me. Mother engaged pleasantly with me, telling me the baby’s name. Shop assistant finally notices my unmasked face…
SHOP ASSISTANT: Have you got a face covering?
ME: (usual weary tone): I’m legally exempt, thank you.
The baby mother speaks from behind her hideous mask.
MOTHER: I wondered whether I would be exempt whilst pregnant but I wasn’t.
ME: Yes! Yes, of course you were. You are exempt. You are always exempt if you have small children because the sight of masks is psychologically damaging to them.
HER: No it’s not!
ME: Yes it is!
HER: (pointing to baby): He’s never known any different and he’s fine!
(Penny drops in me…)
ME: Okay, of course you need to think that. I’m sorry. What I’m suggesting would mean you are harming your children. I’m not suggesting that. But they ARE psychologically damaging to children.
HER: That’s rubbish and insignificant compared with protecting these poor people in this shop.
ME: But masks have not been proven to be effective.
HER: Yes they have, you just don’t want to hear it.
ME: They have NOT!
SHOP ASSISTANT: Please don’t raise your voice to customers.
(Moral of the story: brainwashing is a highly effective strategy. Every religion relies on it and there’s no arguing facts with religious zealots as in – a man can’t physically be dead for three days then come back to life. One-on-one confrontation is not an effective strategy for dismantling it. We need more power in numbers. Spread the truth through other means.)

Note to self: beware the “innocent” remarks of mask wearers trying to catch you out.

I’m really upset by this exchange. Scared to go in the bakery again (it’s the best in town, it would be a shame to have to avoid it). But most of all in despair. What can we do? Wait until the inevitable end?!

343019 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 6, #643 of 2123 🔗

A particularly difficult situation as it might be seen as you getting between a mother and her infant.
Otherwise known as
‘You callin’ me a bad muvva! ?’ syndrome.

343028 ▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to karenovirus, 6, #644 of 2123 🔗

I actually got that once when I said to a mum she should not be smoking next to her baby. I just : Yes, that is correct. So now what ? Silence, complete shock, but like I said before I’m a 6 foot 3 former rugby player, soldier so I guess he figured the odds are not in her favor.

343031 ▶▶▶ CivilianNotCovidian, replying to karenovirus, 4, #645 of 2123 🔗

I know. I realised my mistake as the words were coming out of my mouth! Well, maybe I did make her think. Maybe she will look into it…

343466 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to karenovirus, 5, #646 of 2123 🔗

Having a baby is no more magical than doing a shit that’s why any fucking mong and their dog has kids. Most people are terrible parents. Just a bunch of fucking retards dropping more retards into the soup

343020 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 17, #647 of 2123 🔗

You go back to the bakery without a mask and continue living like you did untill now. Ignore the mass brainwashing , why would you suffer because they are all fucking insane. You put your point across, she proved she is an idiot ( fact: no pier review study in the last 13 years has proven ANY efficacy of mask in preventing infections) and you still got you iced bun.

343033 ▶▶▶ CivilianNotCovidian, replying to Thomas_E, 8, #648 of 2123 🔗

Thank you. I will. I must not give in to fear…

343069 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Thomas_E, 3, #649 of 2123 🔗

It was the WHO who made the point back in the summer (I wish I’d kept the link) that masks are ineffective except in that they remind people to obey the rules.

343084 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Banjones, 4, #650 of 2123 🔗

Face masks: WHO stands by recommendation to not wear them …
Search domain http://www.cnn.com/2020/03/30/world/coronavirus-who-masks-recommendation-trnd/index.htmlhttps://www.cnn.com/2020/03/30/world/coronavirus-who-masks-recommendation-trnd/index.html
30 Mar 2020(CNN) World Health Organization officials Monday said they still recommend people not wear face masks unless they are sick with Covid-19 or caring for someone who is sick.

343332 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Thomas_E, 3, #651 of 2123 🔗

Do what the left is very practised at doing.Throw the guilt trip back at them.
Say something like
” Well as long as you are happy with the psychological damage your child is getting and the liklihood of developing violent behaviour – as you have no ambitions for your kids it won’t matter”
The progs have been using the guilt trip for years, twist their own weapons against them

343032 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 8, #652 of 2123 🔗

You were a victim of your own kindness, generous spirit and common sense. YOU are the normal person here and never forget it. When all this is over you will have the satisfaction of being able to look in the mirror and like what you see—-unlike the vast majority it’s sad to say.

343040 ▶▶▶ CivilianNotCovidian, replying to Harry hopkins, 14, #653 of 2123 🔗

I have Jewish ancestors who were killed in the holocaust. Sometimes I’m doing this because they gave their lives to show that we must stand up – to our death beds – for what we believe is morally right. The only thing needed for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing. I see your point. It hurt (both me and the mother) but I DID something. And we must persevere. I would not have survived this madness without the constant support and sanity shown by this community on LS. Thank you!

343060 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 9, #654 of 2123 🔗

I agree with you. I have been staggered to learn, via a friend, how those he knows in the Jewish community are not standing up to this. Infact, bizarrely, they zealously try to enforce it on others and abuse them for not agreeing.

Sorry you had a miserable experience. Very, very sad that mothers with babies don’t realise what harm they are doing.

343161 ▶▶▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to kh1485, 1, #655 of 2123 🔗

Seriously? You talk of the a Jewish community as if it was a homogeneous blob. Why should the Jewish community stand up to this anymore than any other religious community? I know it is hard for us to countenance but the people on the other side also believe they are standing up for what is morally right.

343214 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 3, #656 of 2123 🔗

The point being made was that Jewish people [in general, implicitly] should be particularly sensitive to this kind of thing because of the precedent of the experience in Nazi Germany, and kh reported a friend saying that he was shocked that “those he knows” in that community are not doing so. (By the way I understand there are many in the New York Jewish community in particular who have been making exactly that point very loudly and forcefully, to their great credit).

Is this really a problematic suggestion?

Is there something wrong with suggesting that cultural, religious or indeed racial groupings have particular historical experiences (eg slavery) that will tend to colour their current attitudes? That seems basic common sense to me. It’s not denying that there will be individual differences in any such community, nor does it inherently empower those who seek to claim unwarranted supposed entitlements from such historical experiences. It’s a generalisation, which are necessary things for almost any useful conversation about the world.

343316 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Mark, 3, #657 of 2123 🔗

Thanks Mark, your response is far more elegant than mine.

343308 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 3, #658 of 2123 🔗

No I didn’t. If you had read some of the vile things they were saying about people like me, you would understand. My point is that every January we are bombarded with messages such as “this must never happen again” but something similar is happening. I am not anti-semitic.

343063 ▶▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 5, #659 of 2123 🔗

You never know – you may have sown just one little seed. I hope so. You’re very brave.

343092 ▶▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 3, #660 of 2123 🔗

One of my favourite films of all time is Stephen Spielberg’s ‘Schindlers List’ I must admit that I can’t watch it too often as, whilst inspiring in one sense, it is thoroughly depressing in another. But the message is clear: When evil is being done it takes great courage and indeed the risk of self sacrifice to be one of the ‘good men’.

After the event of course, everyone feels that they would like to have behaved like Oscar Schindler. But what matters, and only matters, is how do we behave when we ourselves are tested? How do we behave when those about us are doing wrong or are just going along with it for an easy life?

We may not be faced with having to save concentration camp victims but in our own small ways we are having to face down our fears and stand against the baying crowd. Well done to you for your actions…..Brownie points from me!

343933 ▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 1, #661 of 2123 🔗

I am finding this more and more…whats so pathetic is that people think they are well informed when all they do is watch the news.

343015 Harry hopkins, 23, #662 of 2123 🔗

My next door neighbour died in November from a brain tumour. His treatment was cancelled for three months from March of last year. This did not stop him and his wife from clapping the NHS at the time. His wife (now his widow) was NOT outside clapping last night, neither were any of our other neighbours who were enthusiastic clappers first time round. Our area was deathly quiet.
Undoubtedly the days of free pizzas, hero worship and idolisation of a service that was non existent have paled somewhat even to the most hardy of lock down zealots. And don’t forget of course the dancing nurses, supposedly at a time of national crisis!! Even stupid people aren’t stupid all of the time and the government are realising just that.

343018 nootnoot, replying to nootnoot, 34, #663 of 2123 🔗

Fantastic to see this morning around 50+ people, mostly family with younger kids all mixing and sledging in the fresh snow just on the field outside my house. No one masked, kids having great fun and parents all chatting closely.

343027 ▶▶ CivilianNotCovidian, replying to nootnoot, 10, #664 of 2123 🔗

Where is this? I want to be there! I’m so bereft of human contact, especially the smiles of children.

343142 ▶▶▶ nootnoot, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 1, #665 of 2123 🔗

Scotland.

343035 ▶▶ Janette, replying to nootnoot, 7, #666 of 2123 🔗

Excellent that’s what I like to hear.

343117 ▶▶ mj, replying to nootnoot, 2, #667 of 2123 🔗

where is this? call the police!!!!!

343148 ▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to mj, 1, #668 of 2123 🔗

Got help them if they are in Derbyshire!

343321 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 4, #669 of 2123 🔗

Won’t be long before Krankies Karens and Kapos turn up to ruin some more childrens lives after the maltreatment of a child with epilepsy they indulged in yesterday. ( Memory holed already?)

343030 Cheezilla, 5, #670 of 2123 🔗

Here’s a brilliant article by John Ward, looking into the army of engorged leaches on the back of the Citizenry that is the PHE.

https://therealslog.com/2021/01/08/public-health-england-under-the-microscope-a-massive-sprawling-mess-that-signals-a-much-bigger-problem/

343045 Hubes, 12, #671 of 2123 🔗

The new government slogan.

COVID is for life not just for Christmas.

343049 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 3, #672 of 2123 🔗

More overreach by Derbyshire police https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-55560814 . A takeaway drink is a picnic?

343062 ▶▶ DanClarke, replying to p02099003, 7, #673 of 2123 🔗

You cannot leave home for recreational or leisure purposes (such as for a picnic or a social meeting). Who are the dictators thinking up all of this, hope we see them as part of the homeless eventually.

343071 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to DanClarke, 3, #674 of 2123 🔗

You can leave your home for as long as you wish if you are a victim of domestic abuse

343074 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Cecil B, 3, #675 of 2123 🔗

I believe you can have people around if you’re selling your house.

343261 ▶▶▶▶▶ alw, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #676 of 2123 🔗

And I can have my cleaning lady round but not my family.

343114 ▶▶▶▶ Crystal Decanter, replying to Cecil B, 6, #677 of 2123 🔗

The Government is now a domestic abuser so yes – carry on

343076 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to p02099003, 10, #678 of 2123 🔗

How can any person who has lived in a democracy fail to find this utterly chilling and outrageous? I foolishly imagined that we had moved past this after the ridiculous overreaches of lockdown 1. Just reading about this makes me feel suffocated.

343094 ▶▶ Mark, replying to p02099003, 6, #679 of 2123 🔗

Give the bastards power and they will abuse it.

No sign of them out and about yesterday, fortunately.

343110 ▶▶ mj, replying to p02099003, 8, #680 of 2123 🔗

this is what the bbc say
Derbyshire Police said: “ It is up to each individual officer on a case-by-case basis to decide what is reasonable as the legislation does not proscribe a distance.”
The BBC contacted the Cabinet Office, Home Office, College of Policing and National Police Chiefs’ Council to ask for clarification over what they define as “local area” in relation to exercise. None could clarify this.
However, the College of Policing said: “In overall terms police officers across England and Wales will be using their discretion and professional judgement about whether or not someone has a reasonable excuse for travelling for exercise and being outside the place where they are living.”

so they are being judge and jury. so if the copper didnt get a shag last night and is in a bad mood then he (or she) might just think everything is unreasonable. ,.
In this case the ladies should have refused the fine. I would love to see the police try to prove that a coffee is a picnic in court

343154 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to mj, 3, #681 of 2123 🔗

“In this case the ladies should have refused the fine. I would love to see the police try to prove that a coffee is a picnic in court

Haven’t seen the wordings for any coronapanic notices but usually getting a ticket isn’t a conviction or an admission of guilt. You can still contest it and I assume if these ladies refuse to pay they will probably not even be prosecuted, let alone convicted.

343216 ▶▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to mj, 2, #682 of 2123 🔗

As I posted earlier today, just avoid the obviously popular spots, because that is where the unimaginative plods concentrate their efforts.
It’s not how we should have to live our lives, but for now settle for the gratification of beating them.

343145 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to p02099003, 6, #683 of 2123 🔗

It was -4 degrees in South Derbyshire yesterday so having a warm drink on a walk would be sensible. Surely a picnic is something you do sitting down with food and not drinking and walking.

And since when can someone be fined for breaking the spirit of a poorly defined guideline as opposed to the letter of the law?

I live between Ashby and Foremark. The two are in diffferent counties but are only a few miles apart. Surely anyone can see it’s preferable for these ladies to walk in the countryside than on the crowded pavements of a busy market town? Derbyshire police have been for years and clearly remain a contemptible outfit.

343267 ▶▶ alw, replying to p02099003, 2, #684 of 2123 🔗

From yesterday’s Sceptics.

Seen elsewhere…”Here is a lockdown ‘travel pack’ for you to print off and have with you while out and about in case an overzealous police officer or PCSO challenges you for not taking your exercise locally or for being out for too long (neither of which are offences in law):
Schedule 3A of the lockdown legislation regarding exercise:
The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (All Tiers) (England) Regulations 2020 (legislation.gov.uk)
NO wording on having to take local exercise or any time limits on that exercise.
Gov UK national lockdown ‘rules’:
National lockdown: Stay at Home – GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
Note the wording on local exercise and time limits uses the term ‘should’. That is key, because there is no legal force behind it.
College of Policing national lockdown guidance for officers (page 6):
Tier 4 The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (All Tiers) (England) Regulations 2020 (paas-s3-broker-prod-lon-6453d964-1d1a-432a-9260-5e0ba7d2fc51.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com)
NO wording on having to take local exercise or any time limits on that exercise.
Armed with these three, you can legitimately ‘take exercise’ wherever you like in England and for as long as you like. Speaking to a solicitor yesterday, we discussed whether in a court of law a jury might be convinced that it wasn’t “reasonable” to exercise far from your home but we agreed that the point was a subtle one not made clear in any of the documentation and certainly not one that a police officer was likely to raise on the spot. My advice would be to take your exercise wherever you want (in England) and for as long as you want but if a police officer challenges you, go through the above rationale politely and calmly with them. You are very unlikely to get a FPN after showing the College of Policing guidelines which the police themselves obviously take their cue from”

343052 Alias Margaret, replying to Alias Margaret, 11, #685 of 2123 🔗

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/55536762

This is the BBC (!) asking how busy actually are the hospitals in England. The article goes on to talk about the problems of comparing data with previous years because this year they have Covid rules about infection control. They also talk about the fact that patients are having to stay in hospital longer because of the need to produce a negative test result, before they are sent back to care homes, which is clogging up beds.

After reading the report from the doctor ATL, I have some questions.

  1. How many Covid positive patients in hospitals have symptoms and are actually being treated for Covid. JHB tried to find the answer from that appalling CEO the other day. Michael Gove didn’t have the answer either.
  2. Are hospitals still using PCR to “test” patients and staff? If so, we all know the problems that brings with it. I read somewhere (Mike Yeadon?) that hospitals were bringing in LFTs in January because PCR was causing too many staff to have to isolate.
  3. Last week, Hancock was telling us that the London Nightingale was being re-commissioned ready for use, why have things gone quiet about that?
  4. How many patients have recovered from Covid and been sent home? The MSM would have us believe that patients are piling up inside hospitals without anyone being discharged.
  5. Why were NHS management not better prepared for a winter respiratory virus having had all summer to organise wards and beds?
343079 ▶▶ rockoman, replying to Alias Margaret, 2, #686 of 2123 🔗

In Germany the number of intensive beds was reduced by 20% in the 5 months to the end of December.

What conclusion can be drawn from this?

Graph at link.

https://twitter.com/marcfriedrich7/status/1345809420069052416/photo/1

343097 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Alias Margaret, 3, #687 of 2123 🔗

Reading Clare Craig et al (link above) suggests that the problem, as always, is a bed management and other policy decisions problem. This is from my local paper website https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/health/one-four-hospital-patients-now-4866667 . What is not pointed out is that one hospital Glenfield is a cardio respiratory hospital for the local area, and patients from all over the east and parts of the West Midlands can be admitted into that hospital.

343054 Cecil B, 2, #688 of 2123 🔗
343056 John Ballard, replying to John Ballard, 12, #689 of 2123 🔗

A thought provoking feature. Regardless of whether your a sceptic or not the NHS has a winter crisis every year. Given that fact, knowing because of this we are having to shut the country down has anyone seen the government’s plan to sort things out ready for next winter?
Have they confirmed 20 percent more beds within 12 months 40 percent more within three years? X tens of thousands of extra frontline nurses in three years time?
Doubt we will be any better off in five or ten years as the politicians are beyond hopeless.

343121 ▶▶ Julian, replying to John Ballard, 3, #690 of 2123 🔗

Very good point

The NHS could doubtless be improved or replaced, but it or any replacement will never be perfect

You either build in surge capacity, and accept there is a cost to that, or you don’t and accept there are consequences

We cannot have our cake and eat it

In general the electorate have in recent elections chosen governments that limit public spending a little in order to keep taxes low (I know this hasn’t happened this year) so to now panic because hospitals are busy is just daft

343175 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to John Ballard, 2, #691 of 2123 🔗

I worked in A&E from 2008 to 2013. When I first started we had 350-400 patients per day coming through the doors, when on nights we actually had zero patients for a couple of hours at around 2 AM. When I finished there were close on 700 patients a day and the department was never empty. The ED had to be modified to take the extra patients and more recently a new ED was built.

343268 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress 2021, replying to p02099003, 3, #692 of 2123 🔗

I think a trend was established in the 1990s. Anyone who lived in central London at the time might recall how it became increasingly difficult to access a GP. Response – just go straight to A&E (in my case, the Chelsea & Westminster). By the time I moved out of London, this was increasingly evident elsewhere, especially outside of normal hours – consequently, several visits with young kids to A&E in Oxford. Is this now what is happening on a much wider scale – having stayed at home in the first lockdown, now that there are no GP services operating even in normal hours, are people just going straight to hospital?

343274 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tyneside Tigress 2021, 3, #693 of 2123 🔗

Yep. Last time my wife tried to get a GP doctor’s appointment, she was told 2 weeks. So loads of people will go straight to A&E.

343061 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 22, #694 of 2123 🔗

At Boris Johnson’s press briefing yesterday Simon Stevens made a point of attacking people who put pictures of empty hospital corridors on the Internet. He made no attempt to dispute the authenticity of the images, but denounced them as false and dangerous, and went on to claim they are an insult to the hard working nurse who has just finished a twelve hour shift combating the deadly virus.

Why are they so afraid?

343065 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Steve Hayes, 15, #695 of 2123 🔗

Because their lies are being found out and it’s all falling apart

‘Downfall’

343066 ▶▶ DanClarke, replying to Steve Hayes, 14, #696 of 2123 🔗

To stop the truth from coming out, stamp on it before it actually does.

343085 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress 2021, replying to Steve Hayes, 11, #697 of 2123 🔗

Simple way to deal with this. Authorise a small team of reputable and fair-minded journalists (Julia H-B, Majid Nawaz etc) to visit simultaneously a sample of hospitals across the country, accompanied by a senior consultant and nurse for a 12-hour shift. Access to all wards, including ICU. At the moment all we have are a handful of citizen journalist reporters who have managed to sneak into the more obvious parts of a few hospitals on the one hand, and the orchestrated and heavily controlled access from the MSM on the other (BBC). I think both are likely to be misleading.

343093 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Tyneside Tigress 2021, 7, #698 of 2123 🔗

I was just in hospital myself, for three days and two hours. I saw for myself what it was like. I wrote a post on my observations: https://viewsandstories.blogspot.com/2021/01/admitted-to-hospital-in-time-of.html

343147 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress 2021, replying to Steve Hayes, 4, #699 of 2123 🔗

Thanks for that Steve. A very informative post. My husband had a minor procedure in early December, and the local general hospital was deserted. Others have said the same elsewhere in the country. I don’t doubt the report from the doctor on today’s paper, but I wonder whether hospitals in NE and SE London are the exception rather than the rule.

343177 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Tyneside Tigress 2021, 3, #700 of 2123 🔗

The official narrative has it that the NHS is stretched and in imminent danger of being overwhelmed, but lots of official data do not square with that. For example, respiratory illnesses requiring hospital admissions are normal. Yet, if the NHS is about to be overwhelmed by COVID there would be far more respiratory illness hospitalisations than normal.

343201 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress 2021, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #701 of 2123 🔗

Agree. The other misinformation that particularly jarred was the nurses and doctors crying at the number of young people (30s and 40s) dying in one of the London hospitals in a report the other day (BBC I think). Yet, the dashboard has never shown more than 4 in this age-range per day across the whole of the English hospital estate, and even then, marrying that with breakdowns of with/without underlying health conditions in the last few weeks, I can only remember two at most in this age range.

343215 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #702 of 2123 🔗

But if the number of beds have been reduced for distancing/ infection control (if only) and lots of staff are off work (for whatever reason) then they may well struggle to care for patients in some hospitals. Respiratory admissions may be normal, but it seems that the capacity to respond to them is not – due to failures of planning and preparation.

343340 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #703 of 2123 🔗

Somehow I don’t recall Hancock, et al, telling us that they had so mismanaged the NHS that is in imminent danger of being overwhelmed so all of us have to stay at home so as to minimise its workload. I must have slept through that press briefing.

343113 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Tyneside Tigress 2021, 1, #704 of 2123 🔗

Good plan but won’t be allowed to happen as they are not interested in objective reality

343178 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, #705 of 2123 🔗

If they were interested in objective reality they wouldn’t be so actively trying to shut down dissent and debate. And of course, as we here all know, it’s their explicit stated policy to promote fear in order to increase compliance.

https://www.coronababble.com/post/the-ethics-of-using-covert-strategies-a-letter-to-the-british-psychological-society-ii

343064 Andrea Salford, 13, #706 of 2123 🔗

Quick theory

Remember the school bully, got you in a headlock and will only let you go when you apologise (for something you haven’t done).

Is that where we are with Toby being allowed on MSM on the understanding he apologise and admit sceptics were wrong (even though we know we’re not) the narrative can remain the ‘government did the right thing’ as they roll back and we’ll be able to come out of lockdown? (In simple terms I know)

343070 Nobody2021, replying to Nobody2021, 21, #707 of 2123 🔗

Imagine if all the money stolen from the public purse had been spent on actually protecting the people who needed it and on the NHS to deal with anybody missed.

I think the outcome could/would have been a lot better than where we are now.

343100 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Nobody2021, 6, #708 of 2123 🔗

This could have beeen said in June. Since this virus is not that dangerous and you cannot shut an economy down everytime a virus appears – the only logical conclusion is they intended to crash the economy.

343173 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to chaos, 5, #709 of 2123 🔗

I don’t agree. An alternative conclusion is that lots of powerful people have been functionally very stupid (ie they choose to believe things other than the truth because it suits them politically and personally, or they pretend to believe those things because they will gain personally and politically and don’t care about the consequences for others, or their reason is simply overwhelmed by fear).

Those seem more plausible to me than a conspiracy to intentionally crash the economy being sufficiently powerful,and competent to drive all that we have seen.

Ymmv of course.

343196 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark, 1, #710 of 2123 🔗

You’re too nice Mark. 🙂 The economic ‘alterations’ are clearly part of the plan.

343301 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to JohnB, #711 of 2123 🔗

Clearly, we disagree on this point.

343108 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Nobody2021, 2, #712 of 2123 🔗

An extremely powerful argument and one that I use when I can on lockdowners – they never have an answer to it

343075 Smelly Melly, replying to Smelly Melly, 12, #713 of 2123 🔗

Just returned from the local butchers. I suspect he’s on the sceptic side but has to comply with the rules as he’s a butcher and wants to keep his shop open. Anyway, to comply with the “rules” he wears a Perspex face mask (not a visor), which I noted was thick with condensation. The condensation was so thick, beads of moisture were forming and running down the mask.

The beads appeared to be forming into droplets and although I didn’t observe anything, I suspect these droplets could fall from his mask onto meat, the counter etc.

My question is how hygienic is that in “normal” times let alone in these scary killer virus times.

343095 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Smelly Melly, 3, #714 of 2123 🔗

Well.. condensation is water.. distilled water actually.. deionised.. how hygenic? Are you sure it is condensation? Perspex is a good insulator unlike glass or metal.. therefore tends not to get cold enough for water vapour to condense on. If vapour from his breath.. then I’d say it was more of a concern.

343156 ▶▶▶ Smelly Melly, replying to chaos, 2, #715 of 2123 🔗

Definitely from his breath, as I say it was like a face mask but made out of Perspex, very close to his mouth.

343111 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Smelly Melly, 11, #716 of 2123 🔗

If it saves just one lamb chop

343191 ▶▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to Cecil B, 4, #717 of 2123 🔗

A reminder of an age of such innocence: Shari Lewis and her Lamb Chop, when a sock puppet meant just that.

343207 ▶▶▶▶ Andrea Salford, replying to TheOriginalBlackPudding, #718 of 2123 🔗

Aw, happy times.

343211 ▶▶▶▶▶ Andrea Salford, replying to Andrea Salford, 1, #719 of 2123 🔗

Days of black pudding too and tripe and cabbage and ribs at my nana’s.

343302 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Andrea Salford, #720 of 2123 🔗

Tripe -yuk , I still gag at remembering the smell of it cooking

343498 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to Andrea Salford, #721 of 2123 🔗

I associate it with my nan too. Plenty of salt, pepper and vinegar in the honeycombs, an apology for a salad alongside it, on a summer evening.
(That’s much better than tripes a la mode de Caen, which tends to be glutinous, though is not unpalatable.)

Black puddings and Lancashire hotpot on winter evenings, too.

344489 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Andrea Salford, #722 of 2123 🔗

Or the early stages of the dumbing down of society ? 🙂

344116 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Smelly Melly, 2, #723 of 2123 🔗

How one EARTH can a bastard VISOR protect anybody from any kind of viral pathogen. Insane.

344183 ▶▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to Two-Six, 1, #724 of 2123 🔗

They won’t, nor will the face nappies. Its been scientifically proven masks do not work at stopping viruses and are actually making things worse including covid spread. Unfortunately the politicians can’t get that fact in their tiny heads.

343081 RickH, replying to RickH, 9, #725 of 2123 🔗

I note this typically apologetic statement in the first item (above) :

we’re not claiming that SARS-CoV-2 is less deadly than the average bout of seasonal flu for the entire population”

Well – actually – depending on the ‘average’ definition – the numbers are now in for 2020.

And the majority of the year (i.e. excluding the actual epidemic in April) has shown rather low mortality compared with the run of ‘flu seasons. And even including that genuine infectious episode, the year has not produced unprecedented levels of mortality overall.

The autumn has – despite SAGE’s best efforts – been remarkably average (the Chuckle Brothers overestimated deaths by 150%)

343174 ▶▶ richmond, replying to RickH, 3, #726 of 2123 🔗

Lower mortality (excluding April/May) presumably because the emptying of hospitals into care homes in March led to tens of thousands of deaths (from all sorts of causes, mostly not covid), many of which would otherwise have been spead out throughout the rest of the year.

343279 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to richmond, 4, #727 of 2123 🔗

No. This is ‘all-cause’ mortality. Simply weekly reflection of total weekly deaths anywhere – the only reliable data available.

That’s the point. This year was not wildly exceptional in any sense., and the autumn period was boringly normal.

343450 ▶▶▶▶ richmond, replying to RickH, 1, #728 of 2123 🔗

No, you didn’t understand my post. Of course it’s all-cause deaths. The original post said that Jan-Mar and Jun-Dec combined were slightly lower than normal. Well, they would be, because of the Apr-May spike that brought forward deaths that would have happened later in the year. The overall total was normal and would have been normal anyway, without the lockdown.

343083 mattghg, replying to mattghg, 10, #729 of 2123 🔗

Freedom, we say, is not a word that many would associate with him. People associate him with lockdown. “No,” he replies, “they associate me with the vaccine.” Do they really? “Yes.”

Is there anyone in the world more self-deluded than Handoncock?

343182 ▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to mattghg, 5, #730 of 2123 🔗

So, if the vaccination programme goes bottom over bosom in any way, he has set himself up very nicely to shoulder the blame.

343381 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to mattghg, 2, #731 of 2123 🔗

Well, just a little prick. I can see the resemblance.

343453 ▶▶ Biker, replying to mattghg, 1, #732 of 2123 🔗

The leader of the Labour party has been traditionally the dumbest fucker they could find at the time in the country but i’ll give you Handcock is giving him a run for his money. I say him because the labour party and socialist in general despise woman and would never ever ever have a woman leader

343088 Chicot, replying to Chicot, 18, #733 of 2123 🔗

I read the ludicrous Paul Mason New Statesman piece that Toby linked to above. There was too much bs to fully mention but one sentence caught my eye:

“Elderly scientists questioned the severity and the certainty of climate change”

What on earth does the age of the scientists have to do with anything? Is he suggesting that because they are “elderly” they are stupid??

343098 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to Chicot, 10, #734 of 2123 🔗

Probably.
The over 70’s are portrayed as stooped and using walking sticks in the Covid vaccination “adds”

343102 ▶▶▶ Nobody2021, replying to Fingerache Philip, 3, #735 of 2123 🔗

They’re also the most in need of protection because it’s our duty to treat them as invalids.

343151 ▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Fingerache Philip, 8, #736 of 2123 🔗

I can’t keep up with the propaganda line that they’re trying to push about the over 70s.

One minute I’m supposed to believe that over 70s are all terribly frail, but lovely and extremely valued members of society who need to be locked up to be saved.

Then I’m supposed to believe that over 70s are so stupid and behind the times that they aren’t really worth saving at all.

Need some clarification from the Dear Leader on this one so I think correctly.

343315 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 2, #737 of 2123 🔗

Yes, what happened to “70 is the new 50 and 60 is the new 40” patronising claptrap?

343364 ▶▶▶▶ Fiona Walker, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 1, #738 of 2123 🔗

Remember the Brexit vote? We were all supposed to hate the oldies as they all voted “leave” and destroyed the futures of all young people who couldn’t do Erasmus and stuff. They had had their fun and the remainers were quite publicly wishing them dead. OK Boomer? What changed?

343379 ▶▶▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Fiona Walker, 1, #739 of 2123 🔗

One Remainer said he hoped all the old brexiteers would die of flu. I wonder if that tweet is still there?

343407 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to Fiona Walker, 3, #740 of 2123 🔗

I am 72 and voted remain but I am a proud sceptic and I can recognise bs, lies and manipulated statistics better than most 30 somethings.

343099 ▶▶ Gerry Mandarin, replying to Chicot, 4, #741 of 2123 🔗

That they have more wisdom

343101 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Chicot, 5, #742 of 2123 🔗

That’s a very patronising statement considering that the so-called elderly scientists have more experience, wisdom and less susceptible to BS.

343104 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to Chicot, 3, #743 of 2123 🔗

Whitless looks about 200 if it comes to that!

343106 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Chicot, 3, #744 of 2123 🔗

He’s no spring chicken himself.

343115 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Chicot, 5, #745 of 2123 🔗

The relevant point is no so much that they are elderly, as they not in need of the approval of anyone being no longer concerned by such things as promotions and research grants.

343129 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Chicot, 6, #746 of 2123 🔗

The particular dominance of the contempt for age (and consequent wisdom) in our society is mostly the result of three factors I think.

First, we live in an era of rapid technological change. Alongside that, the triumph of radicalism through the late C19th and C20th, which is inherently a young person’s position and which benefits from the discrediting of established wisdom, and finally the particular circumstance of the disastrous wars of the early C20th quickly followed by the “baby boom” era that gave massive economic and cultural power to a generation inclined to listen to and propagandised by those radicals. Mason of course has always been a self-confessed hard left radical.

Contempt for age and wisdom has been systematically pushed in our culture for more than a century.

343160 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Mark, 2, #747 of 2123 🔗

Interesting concept of rapid technological change, I would suggest that these “elderly” scientists have lived through significant technological changes.

343299 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to p02099003, 1, #748 of 2123 🔗

It wasn’t directed at any individuals, just the implications for society as a whole.

343163 ▶▶ richmond, replying to Chicot, 10, #749 of 2123 🔗

“Extremely experienced, impartial scientists. Impartial because they have retired and no longer need grant money”

343836 ▶▶▶ Felice, replying to richmond, 1, #750 of 2123 🔗

No, the purge of academics who did not push the man made global warming theorey started in the late 1990s, I think, when you could not get a grant unless climate change was in the title. Hence established academics got pushed out if they were not true believers, and all subsequent jobs would be taken by younger academics who have been indoctrinated.

343096 Nobody2021, replying to Nobody2021, 35, #751 of 2123 🔗

I remember a conversation I overheard as a student between a male and a female at a restaurant we were all in. I was slightly drunk so my recollection is a bit hazy.

The male was complaining about women who lead men on and how they shouldn’t be going back home with a man if they didn’t intend to put out. There was a lot of back and forth between them before I decided to stick my oar in. I simply asked, what if she changes her mind? There was no answer and I do believe I earned some brownie points with the female but that’s a different story.

The point I want to make here is that the idea of freedom of choice is not just the freedom to choose to do something. It is also the freedom to change your mind.

Those who think that mandating facemasks, lockdowns, vaccines or whatever don’t realise that once it’s law there’s no option to change your mind. If it’s voluntary you are still free to wear a mask but you are also free to not wear one, if you choose to wear one you can change your mind and not wear one. If you choose not to wear one you can change your mind and choose to wear one. That is the essence of what freedom is.

343112 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Nobody2021, 20, #752 of 2123 🔗

Absolutely. and this is the essence of what is wrong (actually evil) about those who advocate lockdown, and other coercive measures such as compulsory mask wearing, whatever the levels of sickness in the community.

It is fundamentally a denial of the entire basis of liberty and of democracy – it says that people as a whole are too stupid to be trusted to make their own decisions. So why do we pretend to trust them with the vote in the first place?

343103 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 4, #753 of 2123 🔗

They have told so many lies they can’t even remember them

343138 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Cecil B, 2, #754 of 2123 🔗

Need a good memory to be a good liar

343130 Caramel, replying to Caramel, #755 of 2123 🔗

Sometimes I forget when the BLM protests were because it seems so long ago.

343188 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Caramel, #756 of 2123 🔗

Haha. Every 4 years. Like Maybugs

343131 Jody, replying to Jody, 59, #757 of 2123 🔗

I lost my rag with a bedwetter friend on Facebook Messenger last night, and sent him this, which I composed in a red mist of fury…

At some point in the future, the following questions will be asked of us:

How could you have surrendered a generation of children to a life without education?

How could you have forced masks onto everybody’s faces (including children), when all the available research told you that they had no useful effect whatsoever?

How could you have consigned vulnerable people to a life without vital social contact?

How could you have prevented old people from seeing their loved ones in the final days of their lives?

How could you have closed churches and places of worship, when this is unprecedented in British history?

How could you have made seeing members of your own family an offence?

How could you have encouraged people to report on their own neighbours?

How could you have locked-up university students in their accommodation?

How could you have abolished the right to demonstrate?

How could you have allowed social media companies the right to censor opposing points of view?

How could you have borrowed and printed so much public money, that our masked and education-less children will be burdened with debt for decades to come?

How could you have destroyed the jobs and businesses of so many people who have to work hard for a living?

How could you have condemned thousands of people to premature deaths, due to cancelled hospital appointments and operations?

And finally, and perhaps most importantly, how could you have unleashed a poorly-understood and under-tested vaccine upon millions of people?

How could you have done all of this, for a virus that has killed, at the very most, 0.1% of the population? And with an average age of mortality of 82?

HOW COULD YOU HAVE DONE THIS?

343135 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Jody, 9, #758 of 2123 🔗

HOW COULD YOU HAVE DONE THIS?

Fear.

343149 ▶▶▶ richmond, replying to Mark, 9, #759 of 2123 🔗

The three British values: credulity, cowardice and compliance.

“However did they win?” (Fawlty Towers, The Germans)

343684 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to richmond, 1, #760 of 2123 🔗

Let’s hope we don’t have to do anything similar again, eh? We are not the nation we were.

343170 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Mark, 1, #761 of 2123 🔗

Apathy.

343291 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to kh1485, 2, #762 of 2123 🔗

Fear and apathy.

344481 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark, #763 of 2123 🔗

But mostly fear.

343146 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Jody, 1, #764 of 2123 🔗

Brilliant.

343153 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Jody, 3, #765 of 2123 🔗

Do you think the answer will be: If it saved one life, it was worth it?

343171 ▶▶▶ Jody, replying to Steve Hayes, 7, #766 of 2123 🔗

Yes, that’s what they’ll say, ignoring the millions whose lives have been blighted or destroyed by the measures that have been taken.

343179 ▶▶▶▶ rockoman, replying to Jody, 3, #767 of 2123 🔗

Of course. On a net basis it has already cost lives – see the slaughter in the care homes.

Most of the people whose lives will be shortened by the first lockdown have yet to die – many many cancer victims for example, whose screenings or treatments were postponed or cancelled.

343280 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Jody, 2, #768 of 2123 🔗

I wonder if your friend is familiar with the psychology/ethics thought experiment about the trolley bus, where one has to decide between killing one person to save lives of others or not?

343329 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jody, replying to Steve Hayes, 8, #769 of 2123 🔗

Well, you make a good point, but, as I’m sure you know from your own experience, it’s impossible to engage in any kind of rational debate with a majority of people.
Let me just give an example of how delusional things have become: I have a Bulgarian friend who lives here in France. She came around in a state of hysteria a week or so ago, saying that she’d been telephoned and told that a very close family friend of hers in Bulgaria (a man in his sixties, in rather poor general health) was severely ill and propped-up in bed at home, having collapsed onto the floor, whilst paying a visit to the toilet.
Apparently, the ambulance people over there wouldn’t come around to attend to this man, because they said it was likely to be Covid-19, and they didn’t want to put healthcare staff at risk.
The first thing I said was, “Why does everybody automatically think he’s suffering from Covid-19? He’s an older man with a number of health conditions, and I can think of several other things that might have caused him to collapse onto the floor.”
But no, this poor old geezer spent 24 hours propped-up in bed, drifting in and out of consciousness, while all around him fussed about in face masks, doing their best to treat him for the symptoms of Covid-19, until a friend of the family, who is a retired nurse, came around and immediately said, “He’s had a stroke”.
She was able to see the signs straight away, and so, eventually, an ambulance came to take him to the hospital.
I’m pleased to say that this gentleman is making a recovery, but this episode is just another example of how deranged everybody’s thinking has become; it’s as if no other disease exists except for Covid-19.

343371 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Jody, 5, #770 of 2123 🔗

I told a local that my son was hospitalised before Christmas. His first question was “Was it Covid?” When I said no he completely lost interest. Only covid deaths matter.
(Son now recovering).

343378 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jody, replying to thinkaboutit, 5, #771 of 2123 🔗

I’m pleased your son is getting better.
Yes, it’s as if suffering from Covid is somehow superior to having any other kind of ailment. It’s utterly bizarre.

343533 ▶▶▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #772 of 2123 🔗

It also reminds me of the infamous Milgram experiment.

343169 ▶▶ rockoman, replying to Jody, 2, #773 of 2123 🔗

Excellent questions.

This society is finished.

343176 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Jody, 3, #774 of 2123 🔗

If the question is how could you accomplish this, we have all seen how. If the question is how can you be an ethical human being and do all this, the answer is you can’t.

343186 ▶▶▶ Jody, replying to Achilles, 3, #775 of 2123 🔗

Well, that’s the thing; my friend believes he is ethically superior to me, because he supports the measures described above. Oh, and by the way, he freelances for the BBC…!

343185 ▶▶ rockoman, replying to Jody, 10, #776 of 2123 🔗

Ask your friend what she thinks the implications of this are:

comment image

343193 ▶▶▶ Jody, replying to rockoman, 4, #777 of 2123 🔗

That is a truly terrifying piece of data. Thanks for posting; I’m going to use that.

343408 ▶▶▶▶ SimonCook, replying to Jody, #778 of 2123 🔗

Agreed it really is Jody. What’s even better, that with both the NHS & BBC logos featuring even the most zealous of zealots should believe it

343226 ▶▶ Janette, replying to Jody, 1, #779 of 2123 🔗

This definitely needs answers and an investigation!

343232 ▶▶▶ Jody, replying to Janette, 7, #780 of 2123 🔗

I actually fantasise about the day when Hancock, Whitty, Vallance et al are dragged-up from the cells, clad in prison uniform, and forced to testify before a tribunal, which has an extensive range of sentencing powers…

343238 ▶▶ Stephanos, replying to Jody, 3, #781 of 2123 🔗

‘Red mist of fury’? Seems quite calm and reasonable to me.

343278 ▶▶▶ Jody, replying to Stephanos, 1, #782 of 2123 🔗

Thank you!

343654 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Jody, #783 of 2123 🔗

Wonderful comment. I shall copy it for future use.

343133 jhfreedom, replying to jhfreedom, 14, #784 of 2123 🔗

Coronavirus: Women on exercise trip ‘surrounded by police’ – BBC News

Urgh, Derbyshire’s finest going over the top yet again.

I have written to the force via their online portal to complain.

To re-iterate: the College of Policing guidelines AND the legislation do NOT stipulate ‘local’ for exercise.

343159 ▶▶ muzzle, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #785 of 2123 🔗

Is that right? We can exercise anywhere?

343198 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to muzzle, 6, #786 of 2123 🔗

Yes, 100%.

But be prepared to deal with ignorant police who don’t know the difference between a guideline and a law. Print out the legislation, the College of Policing guidelines and the GOV UK guidelines and be polite in case challenged!

343213 ▶▶▶▶ EllGee, replying to jhfreedom, #787 of 2123 🔗

College of Police guidelines is 30 pages, I’ve looked

343200 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to muzzle, 2, #789 of 2123 🔗

Oh and stay within England. Assume you live here. It gets more complicated if you cross borders.

343208 ▶▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #790 of 2123 🔗

More importantly stay safe

343219 ▶▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Hubes, #791 of 2123 🔗

Yep. This isn’t even a sceptic v. zealot thing. You can ‘stay safe’ just by following the law. You go for outdoor exercise with your household or one other person then you come straight home. Even zealots can be happy with that.

343240 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to jhfreedom, 3, #792 of 2123 🔗

I put stay safe as a sarcastic comment it’s a pointless thing to say to anybody at any time. Completely meaningless. Same as take care, drive carefully and all the other crap people say.

343275 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Hubes, 3, #793 of 2123 🔗

Yes sorry, didn’t know where you were coming from.

And yet it is absurd. You’re more likely to die of 22 other causes than Covid.

343295 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Hubes, 3, #794 of 2123 🔗

Changing it to Stay Sane may be more relevant with all the Branch Covidians about.

344474 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Hubes, #795 of 2123 🔗

… drive carefully and all the other crap people say.

You didn’t have an offspring write off 5 cars before he was 21, did you ? 🙂

343180 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #796 of 2123 🔗

Looks a bit like a ‘photo opportunity’. Mint tea counts as a picnic ? Nah.

343282 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to jhfreedom, 2, #797 of 2123 🔗

For those interested, I got an informal legal opinion on it just now:

“I think this was heavy handed and I would like to challenge the notice. But I would not advise to challenge the notice because appreciable chance of losing and that would turn a fixed penalty into a declarable criminal conviction and record.

The problem is that a good arguable interpretation is that the exercise exception is conditional on being reasonably necessary and that is open to interpretation. The police force press statement is carefully worded on legal advice. There is a discretion and it will depend on all the circumstances.”

The ladies in question probably didn’t help themselves by being speechless rather than knowing the law and saying what their excuse was and holding ‘luxury’ coffee cups and looking rather glam. I think it’s about ‘looking the part’ for exercise and having your reasonable excuse to hand immediately.

This is what things have come to…

343392 ▶▶▶ PCNoMore, replying to jhfreedom, 4, #798 of 2123 🔗

I think I’d politely decline the penalty notice & opt for a summons. There’s a world of difference between a PC who hasn’t read the legislation properly & is relying on what he’s been told by others and a CPS lawyer reviewing the matter. The latter is probably not going to make an arse of themselves by trying to argue in court that government guidance is legislation for the purpose of prosecuting someone (however much the Daily Mail may think it is).

Don’t underestimate the pressure that some junior and middle ranking Police supervisors will put on their staff to dish out notices to show how “on message” they are (it doesn’t matter to them that the CPS will ditch the them like a shit sandwich a couple of weeks down the road). Being “on message” is how you get evidence for your next promotion panel.

343907 ▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to PCNoMore, #799 of 2123 🔗

Would that it were so simple. Magistrates tend to favour police accounts and if something goes wrong on your day in court you could end up with a criminal conviction. Is it worth going for summons with risk of career-ending criminal record just to overturn a £200 FPN? I see it that it’s worth risking travelling for exercise for a £200 FPN that I will accept as that risk. Chances are you won’t even encounter an officer.

343136 Jo, replying to Jo, 20, #800 of 2123 🔗

Wikipedia/dictionary addition for 2021. (I wish)

The Covidians. A widespread Cult predicated on the delusional belief that a virus which is endemic in an entire population can be controlled; postulated by a neo-communist/totalitarian Establishment, maintained by a Police State and perpetuated by the mainstream media which has become the Propaganda Arm of the State. Cult members worship at the alter of bad science and the NHS, and Dissenters are considered as Heretics.

343158 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jo, 5, #801 of 2123 🔗

Excellent – stick it on there !

343205 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Jo, #802 of 2123 🔗

Actually, it’s a neoliberal free market/totalitarian establishment.

343446 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to RickH, 2, #803 of 2123 🔗

lol, free market, where? where is the free market bro? What we’ve got is statists like you shoving they tiny dicks into any fucking hole they think they can extort money from. You won’t see it off course you’re fucking retarded

343462 ▶▶ Crystal Decanter, replying to Jo, 1, #804 of 2123 🔗

Neo-liberalism has nothing to do with free markets
It is a Corporatist ideology

343140 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 3, #805 of 2123 🔗
343250 ▶▶ alw, replying to arfurmo, 4, #806 of 2123 🔗

Yes a friend in Brisbane WhatsApp’d me about this. Previously a staunch supporter of Lockdown now at last beginning to question the whole strategy. Hopefully we are slowly getting there.

343157 Fingerache Philip, replying to Fingerache Philip, 5, #807 of 2123 🔗

“Hilarious” Jones is losing patience with the “rule breakers” with “blood on their hands”.
As I am now in danger of throwing something though our window, I will leave my FS’s to comment.

343168 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Fingerache Philip, 9, #808 of 2123 🔗

All the real blood is on the hands of the zealots. Any blood on our hands is purely hypothetical.

343181 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Fingerache Philip, 5, #809 of 2123 🔗

The boy is an idiot.

Of course, by his criteria we should never have fought WWII. It would have saved lives not to have done, even if a few went to the gas chambers.

343210 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to RickH, -1, #810 of 2123 🔗

The problem with that argument is that we didn’t know about the “gas chambers” at the start of WWII.

I’m not saying that Britain should not have gone to war with Germany but many of the arguments which are now put forward for doing so aren’t really valid,

343224 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mayo, 4, #811 of 2123 🔗

It’s not an ‘argument’. It’s an illustration, raising the question of whether ‘saving lives’ is the sole worthwhile goal in any enterprise.

343286 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to RickH, #812 of 2123 🔗

I wasn’t having a go. Just pointing out, in a roundabout way, that those who opposed war did so on what they knew at the time.

343243 ▶▶▶▶ ChrisDinBristol, replying to Mayo, 5, #813 of 2123 🔗

Ah yes, but many were aware that the Nazis were totalitarians whose expansionism threatened the freedoms of all, whose regime was backed up by ruthless and relentless propaganda, who persecuted anyone who disagreed with them, who used popular science (eugenics) to justify their philosophy, who were quite happy to turn its people against eachother and encouraged them to turn neighbours in for ‘non-compliance’, and were creating an atmosphere of oppression that could not be allowed to prevail if we were to conserve our very way of life. . .

. . . Nothing at all like today, then.

PS. My Dad flew in the BoB to fight this oppression against all odds. I could not live with myself if I did not at least attempt to do the same.

343516 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to ChrisDinBristol, #814 of 2123 🔗

Amazing as I was reading your comment the comparison to this government was shocking.

343254 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Mayo, 4, #815 of 2123 🔗

The “gas chambers” did not exist at the start of WWII.

343172 Mayo, replying to Mayo, 3, #816 of 2123 🔗

To be fair, not a bad summary

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/55536762

343203 ▶▶ davews, replying to Mayo, 7, #817 of 2123 🔗

Except for that photo being identical to what I posted earlier at https://diamondgeezer.blogspot.com/
Those ambulances are on a training exercise and the Excel is not currently admitting patients. .Pity they couldn’t have found a hospital with a real line of ambulances waiting!

343245 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to davews, 5, #818 of 2123 🔗

Pity they couldn’t have found a hospital with a real line of ambulances waiting!”

maybe there isn’t one

343189 Jo, replying to Jo, 11, #819 of 2123 🔗

The most powerful figure is that the number of people who died from COVID-19 in English hospitals in 2020 who were under 60 with no underlying health conditions was 388.

I have been thinking about this for a while. I know of two people (aged 39 and 40) who were fit non-smokers who died of heart attacks with NO previous history of problems. Also some older people. My friend could think of three such people he’d known off the top of his head.
So I do wonder whether these people might have actually had an undiagnosed underlying condition rendering them more susceptible to serious Covid-19.

343194 ▶▶ Mike, replying to Jo, 3, #820 of 2123 🔗

Highly likely.

343218 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Jo, 2, #821 of 2123 🔗

Probably. There is an assumption that younger people cannot have undetected underlying conditions. For example adolescent children suddenly becoming unwell and dying because of cardiac problems.

343337 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to p02099003, 2, #822 of 2123 🔗

My cousins son dropped dead with a heart attack aged 10 on sports day. No warning whatsoever, bless him.

343233 ▶▶ Ganjan21, replying to Jo, 5, #823 of 2123 🔗

I know of young one guy in his teens who died of a heart attack at school playing rugby. Very fit and very healthy you would think. A childhood friend of mine passed away soon after his 30th birthday with heart failure and had no pre-existing medical conditions.
Unfortunately we will never know what of that figure had unknown problems.

343249 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Ganjan21, 4, #824 of 2123 🔗

Yes, some people just die, quite young, for no reason that could have been predicted.

It’s rare, but not that rare. Not unheard of. I don’t know the figures, but I would have thought probably in the range of 388 in a normal year.

343242 ▶▶ JaneHarry, replying to Jo, 6, #825 of 2123 🔗

almost certainly they did. recently I have even started to wonder if ‘covid denial’ is in fact as stupid as it sounds. such is my distrust and hatred of the lying establishment now that to be frank it wouldn’t surprise me if there was really no such disease at all – in the sense of no one clinical syndrome linked to one particular viral pathogen. they have really done no more than spin a narrative from the usual array of pathogens and diseases and deaths, and 2020 was in fact no different from any previous year. The only data which matters, the overall death rates and the demographics of the dying, don’t exactly contradict this theory

343273 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Jo, 3, #826 of 2123 🔗

Not only that but the over use of medication in Western countries could be a serious contender to explain why we have a more susceptible population, among other things.

343410 ▶▶▶ Jo Dominich, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #827 of 2123 🔗

I am in no doubt at all that the willy nilly prescriptions issued on huge scales will definitely have a considerable impact.

343440 ▶▶ Crystal Decanter, replying to Jo, #828 of 2123 🔗

A friend of mine died of influenza at age 29 in 1998
Autopsy did not find any co-morbs
Chalked up as one of the outliers

343190 richmond, replying to richmond, 9, #829 of 2123 🔗

What I am not reading in any of these accounts of overrun hospitals is whether they are treating the covid patients with Ivermectin. Or perhaps they don’t need to because, although the patients have tested positive, they are really in hospital for entirely different reasons?

343204 ▶▶ Ganjan21, replying to richmond, 3, #830 of 2123 🔗

I wondered this too, when clinically it’s been proven to make a massive difference to recovering from Covid……if not possibly life saving?

343269 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Ganjan21, #831 of 2123 🔗

It needs to be taken as a prophylactic so as soon as you get symptoms and even just as a precautionary treatment for extremely vulnerable without symptoms at times of risk. Such as winter.

343362 ▶▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 3, #832 of 2123 🔗

I think Ivermectin, unlike Hcq, is effective at all stages of the disease. It’s even been show to have a positive effect on those suffering from the dreaded “Long Covid”.

343264 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to richmond, 1, #833 of 2123 🔗

They most certainly are not using Ivermectin. HCQ will never be used. Dexamethasone, Oxygen, pain relief, treating symptoms

343192 aiden, replying to aiden, 20, #834 of 2123 🔗

One thing that I’ve not seen anyone comment on, and that I believe could potentially end up in the greatest lockdown induced loss of life of all, is the massive open goal this precedent advertises in flashing neon to the adversaries of the West.

There is evidence that this particular coronavirus is an artificial combination of components from related coronaviruses found in the wild and catalogued by virologists. If indeed it is man made, then although the likelihood is that it’s release was a mistake; by pursuing this policy of lockdown, and handing the keys of the world economy to the Chinese, to my mind we’re almost guaranteeing that release of further pathogens (say maybe an engineered Rhinovirus) be actively considered by the Chinese – since it’s been proven to be such an effective weapon against and exploit of our western democracy and the culture of common law, the magna carta, etc.

343225 ▶▶ JaneHarry, replying to aiden, 15, #835 of 2123 🔗

yes if nothing else it’s shown that the west are nations of pussies, they will wet their pants at the prospect of catching a cold, gullible, prone to hysterics, easily manipulated and controlled – they will not pose a serious problem for more serious and motivated actors

343234 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to JaneHarry, 8, #836 of 2123 🔗

I would put it slightly differently.

The course of this crisis has shown that Western political regimes are concerned about saving face and maintaining power from day to day, and have no concern for the best interests of their countries.

That makes them very malleable.

Compare with China, where the state simply declared victory and stopped being silly.

343263 ▶▶▶▶ ChrisDinBristol, replying to Ovis, 2, #837 of 2123 🔗

Yes! also.

343260 ▶▶▶ ChrisDinBristol, replying to JaneHarry, #838 of 2123 🔗

Yes!

343258 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to aiden, 5, #839 of 2123 🔗

Stop testing asymptomatic people. They couldn’t follow this policy unless asymptomatic spread was bullshit. Which it is.

343199 John P, replying to John P, 22, #840 of 2123 🔗

Quoting Toby :

“I was disappointed to read the Spectator article Alistair Haimes about his departure from our ranks. The brilliant data analyst has been a valuable ally and I hope he will return to the fold in due course.

His argument boils down to this: “When the facts change, I change my mind.” But what facts have changed?”

Yes, it’s extremely disappointing, but I’d be less inclined to the flattery. He’s clearly not that bright if he’s swayed by the latest government arguments.

Haimes will no doubt be sticking his Conservative Party membership card back together as I type.

I don’t believe what we are being told by this government. The Behavioural Insights Team (BIT) on SAGE are cleverly manipulating people to conform to their wishes.

Haimes has clearly fallen for the propaganda this time, as – I note – have many members of parliament.

343229 ▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to John P, 3, #841 of 2123 🔗

What an arse licking piece has LS been got at.

343255 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Jaguarpig, 3, #842 of 2123 🔗

Toby no doubt treds a fine line. There is going to be a breakdown in all traditional networks for people as we are forced to pick a side. Got at how exactly?

343271 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Jaguarpig, 7, #843 of 2123 🔗

I think that Toby has done a very good job over the past ten months of keeping one foot in the mainstream camp, but without ever agreeing with mainstream opinion.

I really question whether Haimes was ever a true sceptic. Like Ferguson, he has no training in biological science. Haimes only really understands graphs and mathematical models.

Without an understanding of biology and of how viruses work your knowledge will always be incomplete and your conclusions flawed.

343202 l835, replying to l835, 5, #844 of 2123 🔗

drakeford about to address the nation. He can’t do the 5pm one like Boris, as his mam says it’s teatime, and 8pm is past his bed time.

343217 ▶▶ Crystal Decanter, replying to l835, 1, #845 of 2123 🔗

Will be a very RapEacious speech i’m sure

343209 ChrisDinBristol, replying to ChrisDinBristol, 14, #846 of 2123 🔗

Only part way through the comments today, but has anyone noticed another factor in the winter ailments/hospital loading argument . . .

. . . It’s bloody cold . . .

It is well known that winter severity is a large factor in winter ailments & deaths (last year, by contrast, was rather mild). There was a small but noticeable spike in August during the ‘heat wave’ (didn’t see much of it here in Bris, but it happened, apparently). The same is true for cold snaps & bad weather (but more so, by a factor of 3-6). It has also been very misty & constantly cloudy (which would increase pollution).

Should these factors not be taken into account also?

343228 ▶▶ Ganjan21, replying to ChrisDinBristol, 6, #847 of 2123 🔗

You would think! No one dare have a cold or flu or chest infection these days.

343231 ▶▶ Crystal Decanter, replying to ChrisDinBristol, 6, #848 of 2123 🔗

Search “More than just a cold OC43”
All the human coronaviruses can kill/hospitalize the already sick
Nothing new 2021

343257 ▶▶▶ ChrisDinBristol, replying to Crystal Decanter, 2, #849 of 2123 🔗

Indeed. Something I wasn’t aware of before this sh*tsh*w kicked off.

343235 ▶▶ Portnadler, replying to ChrisDinBristol, #850 of 2123 🔗

I was going to post this morning and ask if anyone was tracking hospital admissions against temperatures but you have beaten me to it! Unfortunately we will probably get more of the nonsense about the virus being spread indoors more in the winter, as if the cold had nothing to do with it.

343237 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to ChrisDinBristol, 5, #851 of 2123 🔗

Very true, this is what Ivor Cummins has been saying since the summer. The last really cold winter was 2017-2018 that was almost as bad as 1962-1963. The following winters were less severe and less vulnerable people died.This left a significant number of people vulnerable to any virus. Also the cold temperature is known to increase the death rate amongst the vulnerable. If a person is admitted with hypothermia and tests positive then that is a covid admission.

343212 rockoman, 1, #852 of 2123 🔗

delete

343227 wendy, replying to wendy, 15, #853 of 2123 🔗

It’s a disgrace and a systemic, managerial and political failure that any hospital should become overwhelmed. Winter pressures are always there and could have been creatively planned for years ago. The health service will have to be reviewed and Johnson and his government should be ashamed to have found themselves in this situation. ( I’ll leave aside from this post the terrible messaging and fear mongering going on ).

I worked for the health service for over 30 years and after years of trying to protect the patients I worked with from the health service’s inflexibility I left finding the personal toll became too much as I was getting older.

There were so many suggestions I made which were always deemed impossible and one of the easiest was to work less hours and take more time off during the summer months when even in my area of mental health demand was lower. I would have preferred this way of working and would have readily worked more and longer hours during the winter. No this one simple thing was not workable. Why?

I am not the only person in my health service working circle who left or is planning to leave because of inflexibility. I know the issues are much more complex than my simple example here but I can never agree that Lockdowns are the right way to do things.

I was not a manager of people or systems so perhaps others commenting here who were/are have more to say on this. Would be good to hear others views.

343246 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to wendy, 3, #854 of 2123 🔗

The illusion of control. The technocrats believe just acting will solve Covid, greater effort, more tightening of screws. We are going to learn a very very harsh lesson. It creates a deep unease in me.

343241 ▶▶ Ganjan21, replying to Chicot, 3, #856 of 2123 🔗

I saw that yesterday. There is no end to the absurdity.

343256 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to Chicot, 11, #857 of 2123 🔗

Maybe Boris can demonstrate in one of his 8:00pm performances.

He might as well.

343300 ▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to Ovis, 1, #858 of 2123 🔗

So much for the missionary position.
In the David Lodge novel Nice Work Robyn and her lover avoid penetrative sex, partly because of AIDS, although it was not seen as much of a threat to heterosexuals in 1986, the time the novel was set.

343477 ▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Waldorf, #859 of 2123 🔗

Ooooh, I like a pervy novel.

343343 ▶▶▶ redbirdpete, replying to Ovis, 2, #860 of 2123 🔗

aagghh – my eyes , my poor eyes

343382 ▶▶▶ Jo Dominich, replying to Ovis, 1, #861 of 2123 🔗

Please uuggh the imagery is too much. Was just enjoying an Eton mess!!!

343393 ▶▶▶ Old Bill, replying to Ovis, 3, #862 of 2123 🔗

Sex with BJ requires a paper bag as well as a mask.

343425 ▶▶▶ Jody, replying to Ovis, 2, #863 of 2123 🔗

Ha ha!!!! Boris is just the man for that particular job.

343374 ▶▶ Jo Dominich, replying to Chicot, 1, #864 of 2123 🔗

Speerless! ! Govt now interfering with people’s intimate relations!

343251 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 27, #865 of 2123 🔗

The pseudo lockdown. What we have outside China is a pseudo lockdown. China has only used lockdown locally and can never have a true national lockdown. That would be impossible. Everyone else, outside China, use the national pseudo lockdown which is useless and increase transmission and destroy the economy and public health.

Let us go through a true lockdown, Chinese style. It means cordoning off effectively a region, town or block. Also in China even that not 100% effective, when they start doing this. Wuhan inhabitants fled, and as seen in Bejing airport recently, we saw some climbing over the fences. But when closed, it is really closed. You mobilise outside resources running the cities, blocks or whatever is lock downed. Nobody leaves their home. Food delivered by the outside mobilised force. Would it be effective? Theoretically, you have an immobilised population really locked up. They can only spread in the household locked up. I will not go into the possible outside spread from the feeing from Hubei inside China. Personally, I think they recognized the deaths were like a flu. How come they have not vaccinated their whole population now and instead, selling their vaccine to Indonesia and the rest of the third world?

Italy. The inventor of the national pseudo lockdown.

Important to look back at Italy. They had a regional explosive outbreak and then started cordon off cities, smaller region at first. They had paramilitary forces really preventing people leaving and in the affected areas quite harsh restrictions but never come close to the totalitarian Chinese one. Cases increased and panic in the central government. In a ruthless state, the obvious solution for the stretched hospitals in Bergamo etc would be to fly in Sardinia and Sicilian doctors, nurses to the affected, still small, locked down areas. This is very difficult to execute in a non-war situation. And in Italy. They say that in hell the Italians are organizing it. The Conte government considered regional Lombardian lockdown. His government leaked like hell and thousands fled Lombardy. Conte panicked and against medical advice declared a national Italian lockdown, the pseudo lockdown which were imported everywhere.

China exported a virus all over the world but this did not contain RNA. The lockdown concept, which mutated in Italy to the disastrous pseudo lockdown now affecting the whole world.

 The pseudo lockdown will allow 25% of population (mostly middle, working class) to do their essential duty for the benefit of the richest. The whole pseudo lockdown has been the biggest assault on the middle and working classes ever. The stock exchange almost highest despite collapse in the real economy. The oligarchs in social media, Amazon have increased further their enormous wealth. And the irony of it all. The biggest cheerleaders for the pseudo lockdown, giving the rope to hang the middle and working classes, is the new pseudo left.

343434 ▶▶ Crystal Decanter, replying to swedenborg, -1, #866 of 2123 🔗

Opportunism + greed pure and simple
No need for conspiracies

343471 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to swedenborg, 3, #867 of 2123 🔗

A superb account, I think. Thank you, Swedenborg.

Do you ever rest? Your work for this site is unflagging.

343962 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Alethea, 1, #868 of 2123 🔗

Yes, you’re a hero swedenborg.

343253 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 15, #869 of 2123 🔗

as the now disgraced President of the United States said, the cure is worse than the disease.

TOBY, why the use of ‘disgraced’? That is typically how the media censor and smear people

343262 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Victoria, 5, #870 of 2123 🔗

I note how Russia and Belarus are commenting on the evident fraud in the US elections and state the US electoral system is not up.to modern democratic standards.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/russia-unironically-chastises-us-not-modern-democratic-standards ?

343259 Basileus, replying to Basileus, 4, #871 of 2123 🔗

Ivermectin reduces the risk of death from COVID-19 – a rapid review and meta-analysis in support of the recommendation of the Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/348230894_Ivermectin_reduces_the_risk_of_death_from_COVID-19_-a_rapid_review_and_meta-analysis_in_support_of_the_recommendation_of_the_Front_Line_COVID-19_Critical_Care_Alliance/link/5ff41e0745851553a01de435/download

‘The FLCCC has called upon national and international health care agencies to devote the necessary resources to checking and confirming this groundbreaking evidence. Given the urgency of the situation, I undertook this rapid systematic review and meta-analysis of studies included in the FLCCC paper to validate the FLCCC’s conclusions.’

343363 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Basileus, 1, #872 of 2123 🔗

These findings have only now hit the headlines because vaccines have been approved. If they’d done so before, and they’d shown results, vaccines would have had a much tougher approval process.

Thats my take. They went all in with vaccines as was always the plan, everything else was secondary

343266 mj, replying to mj, 16, #873 of 2123 🔗

Police are looking for a man who injected an old lady with a dangerous vaccine and charged £160.

maybe it is this dodgy looking guy who has a history of getting old people injected with dodgy vaccines

343389 ▶▶ Old Bill, replying to mj, 2, #874 of 2123 🔗

He looks guilty to me. Even worse is that he charges a hell of a lot more than £160 and you have to pay even if you don’t take his snake oil.

343270 Mayo, replying to Mayo, -6, #875 of 2123 🔗

I like Clare Craig. She has a keen analytical mind and makes some good points but I wish she’d back off the False Positive argument. She is technically correct but it’s largely irrelevant. If the bottom line numbers feel real to people then it doesn’t matter how many tests are wrong.

I knew no-one who had Covid in the Spring or Summer – at least not personally but in the past few weeks that’s changed significantly. Friends, acquaintances and close family members are among several people I know who have developed Covid symptoms recently AND tested positive.

The government says 1 in 50 have Covid. That’s a figure I can believe because it’s well within my range of experience. The same goes for a lot of people.

The government figures match my own experiences. Mike Yeadon and to a lesser extent, Clare Craig claim Covid is over and the 50k positive tests per day are mostly False Positives.

343281 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Mayo, 10, #876 of 2123 🔗

Ivor Cummins released a podcast yesterday in which PHEs own published figures show that even in ideal lab conditions 25% of results are false positives.
https://mobile.twitter.com/FatEmperor/status/1347283636345851913

343481 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Nessimmersion, 4, #877 of 2123 🔗

Thank goodness for Ivor Cummins a voice of common sense in this madness. The fact this government prefers to listen to Neil Ferguson should send up red flags.

343592 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Nessimmersion, -2, #878 of 2123 🔗

But it’s irrelevant.

The number of cases is increasing. Testing doesn’t pick up all the cases.

Bottom Line: The government estimate 2% of population have Covid.

I agree – so do others because that is exactly what we are experiencing.

343616 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mayo, 1, #879 of 2123 🔗

Yes but are “cases” a useful measure of anything as currently constituted, given that it seems like a poor predictor of death and serious illness

343963 ▶▶▶▶ Bill H, replying to Mayo, 1, #880 of 2123 🔗

That’s good news surely.

The ‘virus’ is in ‘let ‘er rip’ mode.

Once that sucker has made its acquaintance with every immune system in the country, it is over from a medical perspective.

Doubtless the noise and reverb will continue for a while beyond.

…..

344113 ▶▶▶ Richy_m_99, replying to Nessimmersion, #881 of 2123 🔗

The danger is, or course, that when being admitted to hospital for whatever reason, you are tested, frequently. It only takes one false positive and you are in a ward with other genuine covid sufferers. For many, that is potentially a life threatening scenario, especially for the aged.

I fear more for my mother’s safety from her ending up in hospital for any number of manageable conditions that she has, than I have ever been about her catching covid-19 in day to day life.

343290 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Mayo, 7, #882 of 2123 🔗

Agree. False positives are of greater concern when there is low prevalence. As it is undoubtedly ‘on the rise’ false positives become less relevant.

The core argument should remain – lockdowns don’t work (I think this is being realised now) / they are harmful.

343307 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Tom Blackburn, 13, #883 of 2123 🔗

I don’t agree that “it is on the rise” Tom.

Seasonal respiratory viruses arise every year in winter. I think that what we are seeing now is probably simply the flu, dressed up as a new (and super scary!) variant.

343430 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to John P, 1, #884 of 2123 🔗

I think that is is and that view isnt based on official figures or TV – both of which I avoid – just my own experiences of people I know.

I didn’t really think it was debateable with the Rona displacing flu – It is winter after all.

343303 ▶▶ John P, replying to Mayo, 9, #885 of 2123 🔗

“… close family members are among several people I know who have developed Covid symptoms recently AND tested positive.”

But this still doesn’t mean that they have it though. They could have the flu. The symptoms are essentially the same and respiratory illnesses come around every year.

The PCR test is so unreliable that it should not be used in my opinion. It has it’s place, but at the moment the government is using it as a convenient propaganda tool.

The government’s view is “the more the merrier”, the more positive tests that arise the more likley the people are to obey their dictats. Little wonder they are unwilling to abandon PCR for more reliable tests!

343383 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to John P, 5, #886 of 2123 🔗

The problem is that Covid symptoms and testing positive can also be the common cold.

343620 ▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Nessimmersion, -2, #887 of 2123 🔗

Trust me – the people I know are familiar with the common cold. This is nit the common cold.

A 35 year old doesn’t spend 10 days in bed with the common cold. A 38 year old isn’t admitted to hospital for oxygen because of the common cold.

343743 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Mayo, 2, #888 of 2123 🔗

Trust me, they do:

‘More than just a common cold: Endemic coronaviruses OC43, HKU1, NL63, and 229E associated with severe acute respiratory infection and fatality cases among healthy adults’
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jmv.26362#:~:text=Highlights,and%20death%20in%20healthy%20adults .

Lorry driver training is a big help, though…..particularly in Kent.

‘Update on Kent lorry situation: 15,526 #Coronavirus tests now carried out. Just 36 positive results…..’ Grant Shapps 26 Dec

343412 ▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to John P, 4, #889 of 2123 🔗

Pretty much anything is a ‘Covid’ symptom these days. Headaches, sore throats, nausea, diarrhoea, cough, temperature..It’s a joke.

343612 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to John P, -3, #890 of 2123 🔗

But this still doesn’t mean that they have it though.

It means there is a strong probability that they have it. While we have has flu outbreaks in the past I’ve never known it affect so many people.

The people I refer to are generally fit and healthy and very rarely suffer from respiratory viruses.. It seems a strange coincidence that they should all succumb to the flu this year when flu prevalence is pretty low.

You’re desperately clutching at straws.

343755 ▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Mayo, 1, #891 of 2123 🔗

If the Lateral Flow Test says they don’t have it, then they don’t have it.

Influenza like illnesses are being picked up by the PCR test but not by the Lateral Flow Test.

This is not an argument that is going anywhere until the Drosten paper has been properly reviewed.

343310 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Mayo, 8, #892 of 2123 🔗

If the bottom line numbers feel real to people then it doesn’t matter how many tests are wrong.

I have been wondering about why we differ. I now see. You have adopted the postmodern relativist epistemology, preferring feeling or narrative over evidence and reason.

343313 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Steve Hayes, 8, #893 of 2123 🔗

Agreed. This is not a strong argument by Mayo.

343636 ▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to John P, -1, #894 of 2123 🔗

Read my reply.

343633 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Steve Hayes, -1, #895 of 2123 🔗

I use both data and my own experience.

If I note that data is telling me that around 1 in 3 will develop cancer at some point in their lives I accept that figure because that is consistent to what I observe in the 2000 or so people that I know.

343317 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mayo, 2, #896 of 2123 🔗

Clare Craig said there are more accurate tests available, its a shame these are not being used for confirmation, but apparently PCR is the ‘gold standard’

343493 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Major Panic, #897 of 2123 🔗

Someone in our government is obviously heavily involved in pushing these tests. Even if they receive a £ for every test used that amounts to a lot of money.

343322 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Mayo, 4, #898 of 2123 🔗

If the bottom line numbers feel real to people then it doesn’t matter how many tests are wrong.”

Of course it matters. The proportion of PCR+ results that represent actual viral infection is a crucial metric.

For what it’s worth in the subjective perception stakes, the government figures don’t reflect my personal experience. Nor do mortality figures to this point.

Of course, I could be wrong, but I tend to be multiple times more accurate than SAGE and its wild overstated predictions.

343644 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to RickH, -1, #899 of 2123 🔗

Of course it matters. The proportion of PCR+ results that represent actual viral infection is a crucial metric.

Ok – knock 25% off all the government numbers – then what?

The tests are detecting a trend. This is confirmed by ZOE & ONS data.

343323 ▶▶ Andrew K, replying to Mayo, 13, #900 of 2123 🔗

MAYO with every post you sound more and more like a government employee

343655 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Andrew K, -1, #901 of 2123 🔗

And you sound as though you are out of your depth.

My background is in maths & statistics. PCR tests were detecting only ~0.03% positive cases in the summer.

Why are they detecting 20,…30…40 times that rate now?

343850 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew K, replying to Mayo, 1, #902 of 2123 🔗

Feckoff back to your 77th bridage

344012 ▶▶▶▶ Bill H, replying to Mayo, 2, #903 of 2123 🔗

Lot more tests. Knackered techs, couldn’t give a toss ?

Lab or delivery system contamination ?

Cycle threshold change?

Trust you have looked at the protocols around how to do these tests ‘properly ‘. And then compared to reports of what is actually happening ? As you know, the map is not the territory.

Oh and there’s a lot of colds and flu about at this time of year .( checks data on overwhelmed NHS every previous January). The PCR will likely pick up this factoid.

Then we have the possibility of straight out lies. Perish the thought.

Not waving but drowning in mayhem.

344123 ▶▶▶▶ Richy_m_99, replying to Mayo, #904 of 2123 🔗

Oh God, are you Neil Ferguson in disguise.

When PHE come out and say in their own report on the accuracy of PCR testing, that the maximum ct number that can find any strands of Covid RNA that can be consifered infectious is 31, why the fuck are they still using ct tests well beyound that and still calling them positive cases?

343357 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Mayo, 9, #905 of 2123 🔗

False Positives and PCR fraud are underlying this on a massive scale. Absolute number in some hospitals are important to keep balanced, but capacity issues are also being hit by the very measures being overwhelmed by the PCR noise. Staff off, beds under supply, longer stays until PCR negative.

We know nothing. The fog is so PCR thick what can we do. The PHE paper on the new strain itself showed that even under perfect conditions the PCR is returning 25% false positives.

So it’s still an issue and if we actually admitted it, we can largely deal with these winter pressures

343427 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to Mayo, 3, #906 of 2123 🔗

Hi Mayo, my experience is the mirror image of yours. In-laws had it in the Spring (test confirmed, one in hospital needing oxygen). My sister who works for the NHS had symptoms and was appreciably ill, but tested much too late so who knows. I also was in bed with a chest infection over Easter. No test, but I had probably had exposure to the rona given my line of work.

I now know absolutely nobody with the least hint of rona-like symptoms. So, if we are accepting personal anecdote, the rona is gone.

For the record, even when feeling quite sorry for myself in bed doing a bit of a George Floyd act, I did not resile from my conviction regarding lockdown. Palpably, lockdown had not prevented me getting infected (with something, whether or not the rona). Had it succeeded in doing so the situation would have been even worse, because it would only have postponed the inevitable till the weather was worse.

343672 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Ovis, -1, #907 of 2123 🔗

I now know absolutely nobody with the least hint of rona-like symptoms. So, if we are accepting personal anecdote, the rona is gone.

No. The virus is spreading in different regions. This is the reason I knew we were nowhere near herd immunity as Yeadon claims. I knew we had barely any exposure to the virus before summer. We are getting it now.

Palpably, lockdown had not prevented me getting infected (with something, whether or not the rona).

I am not in favour of lockdown. Eventually the penny might eventually drop for LS readers.

343762 ▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Mayo, 1, #908 of 2123 🔗

The penny dropped for most of us nearly a year ago. The rest of you will catch up eventually.

‘Update on Kent lorry situation: 15,526 #Coronavirus tests now carried out. Just 36 positive results….’ Grant Shapps 26 Dec

343826 ▶▶ djaustin, replying to Mayo, -1, #909 of 2123 🔗

People are admitted to hospitals based on symptoms not test results. Something the likes of Craig (a pathologist no less) and Mike “epidemic largely over in October” Yeadon seem to ignore. Testing is only providing confirmation of the obvious – infections are rising.

343272 peter charles, replying to peter charles, 13, #910 of 2123 🔗

I sent on this letter posted on lockdownsceptics yesterday:
I have a couple of questions in respect of the government’s vaccination
program/ongoing lockdown strategy (and its tragic impact) that I would
be grateful if you could supply answers to.

Preamble: It has been scientifically established that COVID-19 is a low
risk pathogen to most (group A), to such an extent that the majority
who are infected suffer no symptoms, and that even for those who do
suffer symptoms, they are generally mild/akin to flu.

It has also been scientifically established however that for a minority
of primarily very elderly or unwell people (group B), COVID-19 presents
a high risk pathogen that often proves fatal.

Question one: In the UK, group B consists of c.2.5M people, to which
end why should some 30M or more people be vaccinated once the said 2.5M
people have been?

Shelving questions of cost, necessity and disruption, it is important
that people who don’t need vaccinations don’t have them as it enables
their immune systems to develop a natural resistance to the pathogen in
question, a resistance that may save them when its next variant
inevitably besets them (such immunity preventing pandemics).

Moreover according to the ONS in the week to December 3rd alone 800,000
people in the UK were infected with COVID-19. Mindful of the fact that
70-90% of those infected with Covid show no symptoms, this would
indicate that, even allowing for the well who got tested and whose
infection was thus detected, some 4M+ of the UK population was infected
in a given week, such that, allowing for the fact that the virus has
been alive in our society now for an annum, surely it is only a matter
of weeks before 30M people have either established a natural immunity
to COVID-19 by dint of infection, or were always immune to it by way of
past exposure to coronaviruses (last week 341,946 people were recorded
by the ONS as having been infected, meaning, a la the same metric, a
further 3M+ people were effectively immunised in just that seven day
period).

Question two: In light of the fact that all of group B who wish it will
be vaccinated by c. January 14th at the going rate, and that those not
in this group have little to fear from COVID-19, and that tens of
millions of people must already have had COVID-19 (or are immune to it
by virtue of exposure to past corona viruses), why is it necessary to
perpetuate lockdown measures beyond this date, measures that are both
economically, socially and literally murderous? (Please see ref. below
re the lockdown death toll).

This is not an idle question. As you are no doubt aware Bristol
University, for one, has forecast that Parliament’s response to
COVID-19 (as of early November, 2020) will ultimately kill 560,000 UK
citizens, a figure more than twice that of the worst case Covid-death
scenario of 250,000.

Similarly the ONS predicted earlier in 2020 year that Lockdowns and
anti-Covid measures will kill 200,000 UK citizens of all ages in the
medium to long term, due to missed medical diagnoses, missed
treatments, loss of jobs, loss of tax revenue etcetera.

In line with these dire estimations, the 2020 death statistics (as
tallied by the Institute and Faculty of Actuaries) indicate that of the
71,200 excess deaths recorded since the pandemic commenced, 46,721 of
these must be attributed to lockdown measures – a rate of over 1000
people a week – which is nearly double the remaining 24,479 people who,
according to the Institute, died during the same period due to COVID-19
(NB though 73,512 people died in 2020 with COVID-19, 66% of these would
have died of other pathologies in 2020 anyway, as was freely admitted
by Professor Neil Fergusson before the House of Commons Science and
Technology Committee on March 25th, and thus would not figure in the
71,200 excess death figure for that year).

To conclude, setting aside human rights, civil liberties, Magna Carta
and other, now apparently trivial issues (which two million British
servicemen laid down their lives for), it can be safely taken that the
unjust impositions placed upon the UK public, as well as ruining lives,
livelihoods and the economy, are killing a thousand among our number a
week at least, and thus must be lifted as a matter of urgency (and
certainly not left in force until Easter, like some devilish Lent).

343277 ▶▶ peter charles, replying to peter charles, 5, #911 of 2123 🔗

and got this reply from Fabian Hamilton today:
I’m afraid I disagree entirely with the premise and content of the letter you have forwarded. Whilst the restrictions have had a huge impact on people’s lives and livelihoods, they have been absolutely necessary to protect people from this dreadful virus.

With over 1,000 daily deaths now reported several times this week, the situation is extremely serious and getting worse. These are not just numbers, but people with families, friends and loved ones who will be utterly devastated by their loss. The fact is that it took the Government too long to bring in restrictions on several occasions and this has undoubtedly cost lives.

This virus is nothing like the flu. Death rates and hospitalisations have spiralled out of control in a way that has never been seen in a regular, seasonal flu season.

Vaccinations are absolutely vital for the entire adult population in order to stop the spread of this deadly virus and protect those who may not be able to be vaccinated. It’s quite clear that, while this virus does disproportionally affect the elderly, it can lead to the deaths of many people under the age of 65 with no underlying health conditions. Just last week, we saw the tragic incident of an 8 year old girl losing her life to COVID-19.

The science, as well as extensive clinical trials, show that every vaccine that has been approved by the MHRA meets all safety requirements and produces a robust immune response with very minimal side effects, if any. There is no reason not to get the vaccine if you are able to do so.

I don’t recognise the so-called ‘fact’ you quote regarding asymptomatic infections, which only account for up to one-third of infections. According to the ONS infection survey, herd immunity is nowhere close to being achieved, with only a very small fraction of the population currently having antibodies to protect themselves from this virus.

As we can see by the spiralling hospitalisations and deaths, the virus is out of control. The vaccine is the light at the end of the tunnel and refusing to be vaccinated or spreading misinformation about it will only prolong this crisis.

I do not accept your bogus claim that lockdown has killed more than it has saved. On the contrary, restrictions have saved countless lives and I will continue to listen to those brave workers on the frontline – in our hospitals and care homes – fighting the virus, rather than to the conspiracy theories and lazy tropes contained in this letter.

As soon as it is safe to do so, I will support lifting restrictions, but only when it is recommended by the science.

343293 ▶▶▶ Andrea Salford, replying to peter charles, 21, #912 of 2123 🔗

Sanctimonious uneducated virtue signalling, shroud waving, dangerous hogwash. Every point he makes is ripe for ripping apart. It’s just blanket SAGE propaganda that completely ignores the facts. Not once does he address the data.

343296 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress 2021, replying to peter charles, 8, #913 of 2123 🔗

You might want to reply to him, even though they ignore data and evidence, the 8 year-old girl had multiple underlying health conditions (suspect leukemia). The numbers of under 60s in England, without significant underlying health conditions is less than 400 – within the range of the 600 who die every year from SADS.

343297 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to peter charles, 13, #914 of 2123 🔗

I used to know Fabian Hamilton (it was decades ago). He was a smug, self-righteous, arrogant ignoramus even then. He is even worse now.

343305 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Steve Hayes, 7, #915 of 2123 🔗

I don’t know him from Adam. But that summary seems accurate.

343339 ▶▶▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #916 of 2123 🔗

Agree entirely, Steve. I know the bar is set high and the competition is stiff, but Hamilton (his Parliamentary constituency is nearly adjacent to mine) is possibly the most up-himself twat in the House of Commons. As we scousers say, if he were a bar of chocolate, he’d eat himself. In fact I could imagine him doing exactly that if his back was a bit more flexible. A repulsive individual.

343306 ▶▶▶ ChrisDinBristol, replying to peter charles, 7, #917 of 2123 🔗

What a f**king liar. And a closed-minded, ignorant pillock who clearly has no idea what ‘the science’ is (hint – it doesn’t exist, though ‘science’ does, and is being willfully misused). This is why I’ve not bothered writing to my (Labour) MP – the reply would make me even angrier than I was before writing it.

Strangely, the same thing happened when I rang my doctor. I meekly suggested that I was worried about what the Government was doing – he then launched into a detailed description about how bad it was, how children got it, how we should have locked down sooner etc. This took more than 15 minutes out of a 22-minute consultation, and left me a great deal angrier (and more worried) than I was before I mentioned it. I’ve not been in contact with him since, though I might want to.

Tw*t! Why are these people so brainless (whyohwhy)?

343345 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to peter charles, 4, #918 of 2123 🔗

Has anyone told him that 1,600 people die each day in the UK, on average?

DavidC

343347 ▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to peter charles, 4, #919 of 2123 🔗

“Recommended by the science”.

Who are the science and where can I find their recommendations?

343348 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to peter charles, 3, #920 of 2123 🔗

Herd immunity will suddenly be achieved when there’s an axe through his door. To paraphrase Mike Tyson: “Everyone thinks they’re right until they get punched in the face”

343350 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to peter charles, 7, #921 of 2123 🔗

Stopped reading at 1000 daily deaths. He’s lying

343464 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to peter charles, 1, #922 of 2123 🔗

They think by adding awful, terrible, lethal, deadly to the word virus it makes it real. 😂 😂

343631 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to peter charles, 1, #923 of 2123 🔗

This virus is nothing like the flu. Death rates and hospitalisations have spiralled out of control in a way that has never been seen in a regular, seasonal flu season.

What! He can’t remember the flu season of a couple of years back?
He can’t remember the Labour Party screaming every winter that the NHS is on its knees because of ‘the out of control’ flu!

the science”

What a knob!

343284 ▶▶ RickH, replying to peter charles, 15, #924 of 2123 🔗

for a minority of primarily very elderly or unwell people (group B), COVID-19 presents
a high risk pathogen that often proves fatal.”

No. Even for this group, the risk of fatality is still fairly low.

343288 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to RickH, 5, #925 of 2123 🔗

… and (again) – just forget the term ‘excess deaths’. It’s bollockspeak.

343341 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to RickH, 4, #926 of 2123 🔗

Everything is fatal if you live long enough.

343312 ▶▶ Andrea Salford, replying to peter charles, 19, #927 of 2123 🔗

I wrote a thank you to the 18 that voted against the lockdown and received this message back from Andrew Rosindell MP, hopefully reading this will lift your spirits – there is hope. Maybe we could ask him to have a word and educate Mr Hamilton.

Dear Andrea
Thank you for getting in touch and for your kind words about my recent opposition to the latest Government national lockdown measures.
I believe that with these latest measures the government will be condemning the British people to bankruptcy, mass unemployment and an explosion of non-COVID related health issues that will be neglected during this lockdown.
This new lockdown will also signify the biggest loss of our freedom and liberties in my lifetime, as people are prevented from going about their daily lives.
I therefore could not support the introduction of stricter measures, and I had to speak out and vote against it in the House of Commons. I will continue to do everything else I can to raise my concerns with the Government and persuade them to adopt a different strategy.
Thank you once again for getting in touch and for your kind message.
With every good wish.

Yours sincerely

Andrew Rosindell MP

343366 ▶▶▶ Janette, replying to Andrea Salford, 3, #928 of 2123 🔗

An MP with common sense. That is a reassuring letter.

343760 ▶▶▶ Jody, replying to Andrea Salford, #929 of 2123 🔗

An MP who actually gets it; that’s really cheered me up! Well done for writing, Andrea!

343285 JASA, 7, #930 of 2123 🔗

This explains this nicely.

https://rumble.com/vcesav-brave-reporter-goes-off-script-on-air.html

Quality not the best though.

343292 Biggles, replying to Biggles, 43, #931 of 2123 🔗

Heard a story yesterday that shows the current state of the NHS.

Mrs B met up with a friend she hasn’t seen for months and she told her about her son who works in London. He had been suffering from abdominal pains and contacted his doctor. There was no face to face consultation of course, it was done over the phone. The doctor told him it was irritable bowel syndrome and that it would improve given time.

When it didn’t get any better he spoke to his doctor again who still thought it was IBS. He decided to get in touch with his Mum and she said he should ring 111. It was a good thing he did. The woman he spoke to immediately arranged for an ambulance and within hours of arriving in hospital he was having emergency surgery to have his appendix removed as it was about to burst. If it had it could have killed him.

So just another example of the situation that Boris and co have created.

343314 ▶▶ neilhartley, replying to Biggles, 22, #932 of 2123 🔗

I’m sorry but GPs and the NHS were that incompetent well before Covid.

343319 ▶▶▶ Biggles, replying to neilhartley, 12, #933 of 2123 🔗

And made worse by having to do consultations over the phone.

343353 ▶▶▶▶ Jo Dominich, replying to Biggles, 12, #934 of 2123 🔗

They don’t have to though. They choose to

343351 ▶▶▶ Jo Dominich, replying to neilhartley, 5, #935 of 2123 🔗

Absolutely

343376 ▶▶▶ Jo, replying to neilhartley, 9, #936 of 2123 🔗

Yes, my friend had her appendix rupture in 2003. Turned away by A&E and ignored by GP. It took 5 days to get admitted and a miracle she lived. Hospital and GP were sued and paid out six figure sum in compensation.

343433 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Jo, 3, #937 of 2123 🔗

I was once diagnosed as having trapped wind a few days later I was having emergency surgery for an ectopic pregnancy.

343346 ▶▶ Janette, replying to Biggles, 3, #938 of 2123 🔗

Absolutely shocking.

343349 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Biggles, 11, #939 of 2123 🔗

My son was treated so badly I contacted a medical negligence lawyer about it. She said we have good grounds to sue but covid complicates it.
Me: You mean they’ll use it as an excuse?
Lawyer: Theyll use it as a justification.

Thats why I’m not a lawyer. I call it an excuse, they use words like justification.

And neilhartley is right, it was a crap system before covid. Hope your son makes a full recovery.
Edit to say Mrs B’s friend’s son.

343369 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Biggles, 3, #940 of 2123 🔗

I guess until they invent touch telephones abdominal pain should really be seen face to face by a doctor.
He should report the lack of care.

343377 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Silke David, 8, #941 of 2123 🔗

Wah! Wonder of the world.

Why will none of the clapping morons ever accept that the system in most other 1st world countries from Norway to Australia, Germany Netherlands, Austria Switzerland, Japan, Singapore etc etc etc is far better than the 2nd world crapulence we have.

343476 ▶▶▶▶ jonathan Palmer, replying to Nessimmersion, 1, #942 of 2123 🔗

The envy of the world propaganda has seeped so far into the consciousness of the British people I can never see it changing.

343649 ▶▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to jonathan Palmer, 3, #943 of 2123 🔗

The WHO says we have the 18th best healthcare system in the world.

“That good?” I thought to myself…

World-beating zzzz

343423 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Biggles, 4, #944 of 2123 🔗

The NHS are operating in the Ivan Drago style of health care with their motto “if he dies, he dies”

343324 Bruce Reynolds, replying to Bruce Reynolds, 81, #945 of 2123 🔗

Great blast this morning, been to the local hospital with my 86 year old mother appointment 10.00am eye problem, I have my WW2 gas mask over head for max protection old dear is a little hard of hearing so between myself and her communication with staff almost impossible,a thirty minute appointment turns into over two hours..I milked new strain for all it was worth refusing to take mask off.. one doctor was so concerned as to my mental state he begged me to get professional help assuring me new strain was nothing to worry about.. couple of nurses were pissing there pants with laughter obviously had me rumbled..old dear could not understand what all the fuss was about, Fucking hilarious…

343336 ▶▶ Ganjan21, replying to Bruce Reynolds, 10, #946 of 2123 🔗

LOL! Best thing I have read all day!

343354 ▶▶ Gill, replying to Bruce Reynolds, 10, #947 of 2123 🔗

Brilliant, as ever!

343361 ▶▶▶ Bruce Reynolds, replying to Gill, 15, #948 of 2123 🔗

I must say I could hardly breathe in that mask, eye holes steamed up how the Fuck civilians during the 1940s could wear them for long periods I will never know…

343396 ▶▶▶▶ Gtec, replying to Bruce Reynolds, 11, #949 of 2123 🔗

They didn’t; many women, like my mother, took out the mask and put in cosmetics after the initial scare.

343432 ▶▶▶▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to Gtec, 7, #950 of 2123 🔗

That’s exactly what my grandparents told me. Basically, they were never used- as gasmasks, I mean.

344293 ▶▶▶▶ number 6, replying to Bruce Reynolds, 4, #951 of 2123 🔗

Got a slightly newer one, NATO issue? Also got 1950’s Geiger Counter. Mulled over going for a walk with these plus, naturally, a Hi Viz!!!

343359 ▶▶ Smelly Melly, replying to Bruce Reynolds, 9, #952 of 2123 🔗

Keep up the good work.

343360 ▶▶ Crystal Decanter, replying to Bruce Reynolds, 18, #953 of 2123 🔗

Going to the dentist in full gas mask next week
Can’t wait

343368 ▶▶▶ Bruce Reynolds, replying to Crystal Decanter, 11, #954 of 2123 🔗

I’m going to Sheffield dental school next Friday so you and me both will give them something to remember…

343373 ▶▶ Ambwozere, replying to Bruce Reynolds, 7, #955 of 2123 🔗

This is just wonderful, I’m going to spend the rest of my giggling quietly to myself, totally made my day.

343388 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Bruce Reynolds, 16, #956 of 2123 🔗

hahahaha I bet it was total chaos. I still want to walk the high street in a hazmat suit one day and see how many people DON’T bat an eyelid…

343459 ▶▶ Just about sane, replying to Bruce Reynolds, 10, #957 of 2123 🔗

Belter absolute Belter. I take my hat off to you and I also thank you for bringing tears of laughter to my already happy day.

343634 ▶▶▶ Bruce Reynolds, replying to Just about sane, 6, #958 of 2123 🔗

My pleasure, bloody hard work though breathing in that mask need lungs like bellows..

343470 ▶▶ jonathan Palmer, replying to Bruce Reynolds, 10, #959 of 2123 🔗

If it ever becomes too hard to dodge the mask mandate then that will be my mask of choice

343729 ▶▶ penelope pitstop, replying to Bruce Reynolds, 4, #960 of 2123 🔗

great stuff – you should take a video to share with us – sounds a good laugh, wish i had a gas mask! I was thinking of going to supermarket completely embalmed and with a mask and snorkel -would certainly attract some attention! 🙂

343925 ▶▶ Simon, replying to Bruce Reynolds, 6, #961 of 2123 🔗

HAHAHAHAHA

I laughed out loud.

This is the way to defeat the nonsence. Laughter and ridicule. Brilliant.

343328 TyRade, replying to TyRade, 16, #962 of 2123 🔗

Since my swearing has improved to almost professional standard while in solitary, I thought I’d try to take it to the next level by rewatching the ‘Gorbals Goebbels’, ‘Pol Potty Mouth’ Malcolm Tucker in ‘The Thick of It’ on Netflix. When you run out of cliches for the decayed Leviathan of the NHS, and its apologists, maybe try these Tuckerisms:

  • about as useful as a marzipan dildo
  • you’re just sticking one tit moment on top of another tit moment. That wouldn’t ha[pen in real life.
  • ever travel head first at a hundred miles an hour through a tunnel of pig shit?
  • who was it did you media training? Myra Hindley?
  • I’ve got a to-do list here that’s longer than a f&cking Leonard Cohen song.
  • time to f&ck the i’s and fist the t’s
  • you look like you’ve shit a Lego garage.
  • you’re a f&cking omnishambles. You’re like that coffee machine, you know, ‘from bean to cup, you f&ck up.
  • a face like Dot Cotton licking piss off a nettle
343375 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to TyRade, #963 of 2123 🔗

Superb.

343416 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to TyRade, 3, #964 of 2123 🔗

When I need your advice I’ll give the special signal, which is me being sectioned under the fucking mental health act.

343418 ▶▶ Biker, replying to TyRade, 3, #965 of 2123 🔗

i never fancied that show, just another BBC bullshit show stuffed full of pedo’s and woke bullshit and the totally unfunny Armni Dildo who wrote it gives me the total creeps. You just can’t trust anyone or anything touched by the BBC.

343333 Schrodinger, 5, #966 of 2123 🔗

High level of non-covid deaths may reflect health system pressures

“As hospitalisations have increased substantially over past weeks, and look set to continue, this could have a profoundly negative impact upon common causes of death such as heart disease, stroke, cancer, and dementia in the short and longer term. The trend of excess deaths in the community has continued throughout the pandemic, which is again of real concern and speaks to the ongoing indirect impacts of the pandemic on mortality”

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n44

343334 scuzzaman, replying to scuzzaman, 33, #967 of 2123 🔗

One of the most unpleasant aspects of this crisis is that it has brought out an ugly, authoritarian streak in so many people, particularly those in positions of authority.

Positions of authority attract authoritarians, precisely because these positions allow them to indulge their innate desire to tell other people what to do, how to live, and etc.

Indeed, the opportunity to express these authoritarian tendencies provides a massive incentive for people in positions of authority to manufacture crises and there’s a very long history of them doing exactly that.

I have no idea if there really is a virus behind all this nonsense, and nor do I much care. What I do know is that what is happening is nonsense. There is no medical crisis at work here, but there IS a civic crisis. There’s a global power grab invading the body politic and there’s a disturbingly weak immune system response to it.

I thank God for the white corpuscles like lockdown sceptics and I consider myself a mere helper cell.

343355 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to scuzzaman, 9, #968 of 2123 🔗

I am just old enough to remember certain people who relished petty power in WW2. We called them ‘Little Hitlers’.

343394 ▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to PastImperfect, 1, #969 of 2123 🔗

There was that TV series On The Buses in the 1970s and one character actually had a rather significant moustache.

343569 ▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to scuzzaman, 5, #970 of 2123 🔗

My position is steadfast, even if is the worst pandemic since the plague, no one has or should expect to have the right to take my freedom for their safety .

It is morally reprehensible for any government to assume such power & their mitigation measures violate international human rights, the nuremburg code & medical ethics.

I DO NOT CONSENT!

If frightened people wish to hide from a virus that’s their prerogative but they mustn’t be facilitated by authoritarians to force or coerce others to do the same. I’ve heard it said health is a human right that over rules all other rights, this can not conceivably be so, because no one can guarantee good health, freedom can & should be. Government power over individual human rights must have limitations in a free democratic society.

343579 ▶▶▶ Jody, replying to Anti_socialist, 1, #971 of 2123 🔗

Well said!

343338 PastImperfect, replying to PastImperfect, 8, #972 of 2123 🔗

I went to pick up our medicines today. Our medical centre shares carpark with a school and I was surprised to see it so busy as I thought the schools were not opening.

The explanation was that the sheeple were hurrying along to get their not-a-vaccination jabs. I managed to tuck a leaflet behind a cable where we queue.

343367 ▶▶ bucky99, replying to PastImperfect, 5, #973 of 2123 🔗

Pleased to say fully half of my son’s year are still in school.

343380 ▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to bucky99, 2, #974 of 2123 🔗

Decent turnout at my daughter’s school this morning too on the first day of “reopening”.

343415 ▶▶▶▶ bucky99, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, #975 of 2123 🔗

Splendid – good to hear!

343356 Basics, replying to Basics, 4, #976 of 2123 🔗

Propaganda sheet and vaccine marketing booklet sent out to all scottish homes branded in scottish government logos signed by Fiona McQueen Chief Nursing Officer, Gregor Smith Interim Chief Medical Officer, Jason Leitch, Nat Clinical Dir.

‘All our lives turned upside down by COVID-19 (their caps)’, starts the first sentence… and so it continues.
‘Since December the NHS Scotland vaccine programme has given us much needed hope’.
‘NHS Scothland will only use a vaccines if it meets the required standards of safety and effectiveness’, The sheet contiunes MHRA has to do all checks to ensure standards are met – says nothing about those regulation standards having been bypassed due to emergency.
Blah blah ‘light at the end of the tunnel but not a quick fix’.
‘Even with a vaccine, Scotland will face some restrictions for the foreseeable future, so we need to continue to stick to the rules for a while longer and follow the FACTS.’ No explanation why we need to follow *the rules*. FACTS is not sign posted to so here it simply reads as upper cast facts. Is the use of ‘for a while longer’, good English? It feels a little Americaised to me.

Rough, fast summary of pamphlet, question and answer format to control thinking by asking only questions they want to answer.

Most at risk are over 50s yes fifty.
UK Government ‘has agreed’ to provide all vaccines for niklaland.
Are C19 vaccines safe? -the pamplet screamingly does not answer yes. It weasel words around and references MHRA as above – implication of responsibility lies with MHRA yet NHS Scot ‘will only use a vaccine if it meets required standards of safety and effectiveness’.

‘How do the vaccines work?
The C19 vaccines do not cause C19. They build your immunity to the virus, so your body will fight it off more easily if it affects you. This can reduce your risk of developing C19 or, if you do get C19, it can make the symptoms milder. The vaccine is also suitable for people with disorders of the immune system. The caccines’ effectiveness will continue to be monitored as the vaccines are rolled out.’

Bored now so may relate the remaining 6 pages later. SARS CoV 2 is not mentioned throughout. COVID-19 is.

Finally, the Fever After Vaccine section says it’s ‘quite common’ to develop a ‘fever’ for 48 hours after ‘a’ vaccination.

The booklet is tat, to think this is the lifeline properly terrified people have awaited is quite sad. It is a paltry marketing booklet geared to get those needles through skin. Surely it would be responsible to explain how important it is to report any ill effects post vaccination.

‘WE do not know whether having the vaccine stops you spreading the virus to others so it’s important we all continue to follow… blah’.

343409 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Basics, 3, #977 of 2123 🔗

depending on the type of paper they’ve used it might make good roach material

343426 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Biker, 2, #978 of 2123 🔗

👍🏻

343358 LS99, replying to LS99, 28, #979 of 2123 🔗

Saw this today, a quote by Martin Luther King Jr

‘Cowardice asks the question ‘Is it safe?’. Expediency asks the question ‘Is it politic?’. Vanity asks the question ‘Is it popular?’. But conscience asks the question ‘Is it right?’ And there comes a time when you must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular, but you must take it because your conscience tells you that it is right.’



343398 ▶▶ caravaggio57, replying to LS99, 2, #980 of 2123 🔗

Wise guy. Pity that his philosophy is so out of fashion these days.

343530 ▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to LS99, 1, #981 of 2123 🔗

Or as Martin Luther is supposed to have said (though almost certainly didn’t): “Here I stand. I can do no other.”

343546 ▶▶▶ Basileus, replying to TheOriginalBlackPudding, #982 of 2123 🔗

I believe he is quoted as adding, ‘God help me’.

343372 tony rattray, replying to tony rattray, 17, #983 of 2123 🔗

A Defence of Lockdown Sceptics

Thanks again Toby! An excellent summary of why I remain a lockdown sceptic based upon rational thought. As ferguson clearly gave away in his recent interview with the times, there was always a second more plausible path we could have taken and its still up to the lockdown supporters to evidence via data (not emotion) that the draconian path was the right one based upon good old cost versus benefit analysis.

Hancock et al are deluded if they think history will judge them well. Its called euphoria in the heat of the moment. The worst of it (ie impact of lockdown), otherwise called the butterfly effect, is yet to come….

In the meantime, london calling!, stop nhs staff quarantining who are able to work, use the nightingale hospitals as intended with the support of former healthcare professionals and remove the extra pointless spacing in covid wards. Its called contingency planning for an organisation with a spend of £200 billion.

343386 ▶▶ SimonCook, replying to tony rattray, 5, #984 of 2123 🔗

Good afternoon Tony,

Be fair now, I mean they’ve only had since October 2016 to plan for this…

Report of UK’s pandemic preparedness leaves questions unanswered, says doctor
An NHS doctor who launched legal action in the High Court to force the Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC) to publish a 2016 report into an exercise wargaming a future pandemic has dropped the case after the report was finally published on the department’s website.

The report on Exercise Cygnus, the simulation of a fictitious influenza pandemic, warned that “the UK’s preparedness and response, in terms of its plans, policies, and capability, is currently not sufficient to cope with the extreme demands of a severe pandemic that will have a nationwide impact across all sectors.

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4499

Obviously, I agree with you 100%.

Kindest regards

Simon

343390 ▶▶▶ tony rattray, replying to SimonCook, #985 of 2123 🔗

Thank you!

343528 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to tony rattray, 4, #986 of 2123 🔗

I think part of the problem is that a lot of people confuse covid sceptic with lockdown sceptic. So now that more people are getting covid, because it’s winter, they think that means that the lockdown sceptics were wrong. Personally I believe that covid is real, I believe it can be very nasty for certain people, and I believe that some hospitals are very busy like they often are in Jan (but made far worse by the cut in beds and lack of staff due to social distancing/isolating). But I DO NOT think that lockdown is the best way to deal with this problem, especially at this late stage in the game.

343540 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #987 of 2123 🔗

a lot of people confuse covid sceptic with lockdown sceptic ” There is some overlap, but in general this is a smear from our enemies who know their arguments are weak

343829 ▶▶▶▶ tony rattray, replying to Julian, #988 of 2123 🔗

Indeed.

343385 BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 5, #989 of 2123 🔗

While Trump seems done, the fraud issue simply won’t go away. Biden will have a dark cloud hanging over him as long as they refuse to actually look at such practices. If this was a video from the UK elections, I wonder how it would be handled

https://mobile.twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/1347262405299097604

343397 ▶▶ Bruce Reynolds, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 7, #990 of 2123 🔗

Trump will be back 75 million Americans voted for him, no way you can keep this man down for long…

343494 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress 2021, replying to Bruce Reynolds, 1, #991 of 2123 🔗

I also think, despite the rhetoric from the MSM, few, if any of those 75m will have changed their minds. In fact, the more they push and seek to silence, the more resolute will be the support. They ought to be careful what they wish for.

343758 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Tyneside Tigress 2021, -1, #992 of 2123 🔗

Many have indeed changed their minds. Trump has promised them many drops, they’ve never happened. He encouraged their patriotism to come to the fore and he was nowhere to be seen when it mattered to them. He’s a sideshow now for the real issue of fraud

343519 ▶▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to Bruce Reynolds, -1, #993 of 2123 🔗

The establishment will annihilate trump & anyone connected or supporting him, the second he leaves the white house, he over played his hand the other day & they’ll be ruthless in destroying him for it, i’m afraid the marmite president is finished.

There’s standing between them & us now, the next 4 years will be brutal.

343413 ▶▶ Basics, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #994 of 2123 🔗
343504 ▶▶ Crystal Decanter, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #995 of 2123 🔗

The party out of power tend to sweep the mid terms
The Republicans are snakes though

343387 PWL, 2, #996 of 2123 🔗

See how controlled opposition works? Quibble about NHS occupancy rates, push message of importance of saving the control grid that the NHS represents, and reaffirm idea of Covid-19 as voracious plague. This opposition will all peel off back to the official line, taking you with it. This is its job to do.

Soon: Organising around home schooling could be first step to setting up real common law jurisdictions. Plus “Let my people go!” The lesson of Exodus is to make a country ungovernable for the ruling class.
Action To End The Interminable Unlawful Lockdown

343391 Fingerache Philip, 1, #997 of 2123 🔗

Wolverhampton Express and Star boasts that 14,000 care home residents and staff will be vaccinated by the end of January in Staffordshire and the black country; Christ! that’s less than 500 a day.
I don’t think that’s anything to boast about.

343395 alw, replying to alw, 3, #998 of 2123 🔗

So Khant declaring major incident in London. In London today people still out and about and bodies not piling up in streets. I despair.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/major-incident-london-covid-hospitals-overwhelmed-sadiq-khan-b759404.html

343417 ▶▶ Adamb, replying to alw, 1, #999 of 2123 🔗

Pushing for face masks outdoors again I see

343421 ▶▶▶ alw, replying to Adamb, 3, #1000 of 2123 🔗

Just carry your lanyard.

343424 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Adamb, 1, #1001 of 2123 🔗

Creepy Joe has asked for 100 days of masks, is it coming here?

343754 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to stefarm, #1002 of 2123 🔗

Read teh SAGE minutes from the 26th. It’s masks outside, more insistence on certain types of masks and some recommendations for masks at home

343399 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 9, #1003 of 2123 🔗

https://www.ukcolumn.org/ukcolumn-news/uk-column-news-6th-january-2021

Shocking disclosure that the NHS are withholding data blaming Covid as their excuse!! Doctors are now being forced to sign non disclosures. Oh so nothing so nothing sinister going on then?

343419 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Bella Donna, 4, #1004 of 2123 🔗

Forced to sign and also coerced to sign. Gagging contacts cost NHS 2 million at least. https://youtu.be/YSUKt4ROcNc

Lying by omission to you and I.

343401 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 3, #1005 of 2123 🔗

Zoe app shows the total UK new daily infections has fallen for the first time in this seasonal wave. I expect this is the first day of the long fall of infections. As expected for a seasonal virus.

yesterday new infections 69958
today new infections 69231

343406 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to steve_w, 2, #1006 of 2123 🔗

Zoe always far smoother than the junk govt PCR tests

343411 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to steve_w, 2, #1007 of 2123 🔗

new daily infections (symptomatic)

343429 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to steve_w, 1, #1008 of 2123 🔗

and peak infected in society will come on 16th Jan (give or take)

https://covid.joinzoe.com/data

and

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveypilot/8january2021

but far lower than in the first season at 2% rather than the previous 5%

343484 ▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to steve_w, 1, #1009 of 2123 🔗

infected in society to be half of peak by the end of january

343521 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to steve_w, 2, #1010 of 2123 🔗

Obviously, just in time for them to say that lockdown worked.

343585 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1011 of 2123 🔗

yes, and as before the maths will prove them wrong. The lockdowns have caused no noticeable change in R and R for this season actually peaked on the 18th Dec – just due to natural factors I’m sure

343566 ▶▶ Mayo, replying to steve_w, 1, #1012 of 2123 🔗

Yep – Just to clarify the number currently infected will keep increasing for a while – albeit at a slower rate. This is because the number infected is still above the number recovering. This will continue for another for a further week or so before recovered cases exceed newly infected cases and Total cases will decline (we hope).

343582 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Mayo, #1013 of 2123 🔗

yes, for about 8 to 10 days. The Zoe App only graphs currently infected (and just gives a number for new infections which I record).

343714 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Mayo, #1014 of 2123 🔗

Thanks, but does that apply to lorry drivers in Kent?

343701 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to steve_w, #1015 of 2123 🔗

Cases in Northern Ireland peaked around the 29th, dropping like a stone since. Fastest decline we’ve seen. If cases rising is exponential what is a drop at similar pace? Is there a word for that?

343402 FrankiiB, replying to FrankiiB, 12, #1016 of 2123 🔗

Nazi thugs at it again

I mean Derbyshire police
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-55560814

I hope these women do not pay any fine and if they need any expenses for court I would gladly contribute.

I have read the regulations and the guidance. They are not the same document and police have no right to start behaving like this.

343420 ▶▶ nottingham69, replying to FrankiiB, 5, #1017 of 2123 🔗

Police too thick to read the law. Problem with these fixed penalties, they can be handed out with impunity. No comeback when they are wrong.

343531 ▶▶▶ Basileus, replying to nottingham69, 2, #1018 of 2123 🔗

But you have the right to refuse to accept. The police have no powers to issue punishment without a court case. My understanding, I am not a lawyer.

343557 ▶▶ Dan L, replying to FrankiiB, 3, #1019 of 2123 🔗

Awful. I know in practice it is unlikely happen to me but what’s the best approach when faced with this? My current plan is to first try to discuss it and state that the regulation on exercise is guidance not law. It does feel like in this particular case you wouldn’t have much luck as the police appear to have gone out specifically to catch people breaking the regulations so are unlikely to be dissuaded by a rational discussion. So if that fails and the cops attempt to issue a fixed penalty notice I plan to simply refuse to accept it. An option if I was feeling brave would be to refuse to give my name and address presumably that would mean an arrest but it would take mean they would be unable to hassle any other members of the public while they are dealing with it. What have others done who have faced this type of situation?

343647 ▶▶▶ Dan L, replying to Dan L, 2, #1020 of 2123 🔗

A bit of googling about rejecting a fixed penalty notice found me this

https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q213.htm

It can go to court and you may pay a bit more if found guilty which you won’t in this case surely since no law would have been broken. Seems like a fairly low risk thing to reject so I think I’m safe not to worry about it in the unlikely event I get in this situation. (NB I’ve no legal expertise). I could be wrong but it seems like you are worse off if you accept it and then refuse to pay since you then would be charged with not paying the fine rather than the original “offence”.

343687 ▶▶▶ FrankiiB, replying to Dan L, 2, #1021 of 2123 🔗

My feeling is that if in this situation, you should refuse. It could mean taking the paper and sending it off saying that it has been issued in error (stating regulation). The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) are likely to consider that it should be dropped and not go to court. I feel the police are doing this knowing that is the case, as they think bully boy tactics will deter others from the stress of going through this. Indeed it will, but if I got one I would still refuse and prefer to go to court knowing I was in the right.

343666 ▶▶ Burlington, replying to FrankiiB, 5, #1022 of 2123 🔗

A cup of Starbucks mint tea a fekin picnic?? I’d say those coppers were a packed lunch short of a picnic.
Just remember folks: One in three coppers is just as stupid as the other two!

343403 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 2, #1023 of 2123 🔗

Is it currently legal to jump on an available flight to fly to a country that allows us entry?

343414 ▶▶ Adamb, replying to Major Panic, #1024 of 2123 🔗

Just mentally add 200 quid to the cost of your ticket

343422 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Major Panic, #1025 of 2123 🔗

I went away twice last year and both times it was a doddle. Don’t believe what you read about being turned away at the border etc – complete nonsense. Check the entry requirements of the country you want to go to (their instructions not the UK.gov interpretation of them) and you’ll be fine.

343445 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Tom Blackburn, #1026 of 2123 🔗

Thanks, I was asking about the rules at this moment in time from our gov to travel abroad, I understand about quarantine/test on rtn etc

343441 ▶▶ Ganjan21, replying to Major Panic, 1, #1027 of 2123 🔗

Yes, but it is illegal to visit your friends and family.

343535 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Major Panic, #1028 of 2123 🔗

Good question

Wondering the same thing myself

I don’t recall anything specific in any of the SIs about foriegn travel, but in order to get to the airport you’d need to be outside your home, so you would need to have a reasonable excuse for that

343431 Just about sane, replying to Just about sane, 9, #1029 of 2123 🔗

Once upon a time I was worried about a virus and my husband being infected and dying. He had a heart attack at 40 years old. Now I’m no longer in afraid of my husband being infected with a virus. I am now living in fear of the police entering our home forcebly because a neighbour reported my daughter staying overnight. He would defend me as I would be the one doing the shouting with anger at the invasion, which would in all likely hood cause him to have another heart attack.

This is the world of nightmares and it happened in Scotland on Wednesday evening.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9123839/Coronavirus-Scotland-Three-people-charged-assaulting-police.html

This is the scariest part that is quoted in the Mail.

“Police officers are legally allowed to enter Britons’ homes if ‘that person reasonably suspects that an offence under regulation 5(1) is taking place on the premises,’ according to legislation.

Leaving the house in Scotland is now illegal after the country was thrown back into lockdown.

The hardline crackdown, announced by Nicola Sturgeon, includes the legally enforceable stay-at-home rule. “

343461 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Just about sane, 4, #1030 of 2123 🔗

Reasonably – their intelligence via the member of public report will be reviewed, was the report credible? Based on what we all saw it was incorrect. Why then did police act on that grassed tip off and not others?

Police Scotland have stated it was a member of the public that gave the police the suspicion.

Aberdeenshire does not have a record to envy regarding straight, honest policing.

343508 ▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to Just about sane, 8, #1031 of 2123 🔗

I wrote to my MP Ian Blackford, previously regards concerns with police over reach & violence. That I was more concerned about being assaulted by out of control police than criminals and that I felt I couldn’t support or co-operate (snitch to) with police if this doesn’t stop

His reply was, “I am sorry that you feel the way you do”.

Last night I emailed him again asserting my distress over recent police conduct including highlighting the case you mention & several others over the past 48hrs. Again his reply.

“I neither agree with your interpretation or conclusions.” (he rarely replies in context to any correspondence sent.)

Unfortunately in my frustration I sent a rather satirical email back.

Its pretty obvious the SNP don’t believe (all) humans should have rights or be treated with dignity, i’m just thankful Humza Yousaf’s hate (free speech) crime bill hasn’t gone through yet, otherwise I presume the police would be round breaking the door down tasering me & throwing me in the gulag for 7 years for thinking differently & daring to question an elected official of the socialist nationalist party. That said when has the law ever stopped the state abusing its citizens!

That crime a side, exactly what is your job description? Only representing those constituents you agree with?

Assuming you think Scotland’s a fantastic utopia & everyone is having a wonderful time? Because the SNP & our dear leader comrade Sturgeon are doing such a fantastic job destroying our economy, society, Country & any trust in its institutions. I know you have much experience in this area so perhaps you can offer me advice on how to go about independence & freedom from SNP’s police state.

I don’t expect a reply. Maybe a visit from the police.

343515 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Anti_socialist, 3, #1032 of 2123 🔗

I applaud you for your effort, Blackford is pure fucking cringe.

343435 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 8, #1033 of 2123 🔗

Lockdown going well, isn’t it?

343485 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #1034 of 2123 🔗

In what way ….?

343573 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to Ozzie, 1, #1035 of 2123 🔗

No ways.

343436 Tinxx, 1, #1036 of 2123 🔗

Just to be a pedant, the charge into the valley of death was by the Light Brigade during the Crimean War – your illustration at the top of today’s piece is Lady Butler’s painting of the Scots Grays (aka the Heavy Brigade) at the battle of Waterloo…

343438 Cranmer, replying to Cranmer, 9, #1037 of 2123 🔗

Field report – London

Today I cycled around central and north London and the City for a couple of hours around lunchtime.

General atmosphere was quiet, similar to an early Sunday morning before things open.

Lots of buses driving around empty. Very few taxi cabs. West end mostly seemed to be people out for their daily exercise. The City seemed to be mostly contractors – lots of building work and road works going on.

Rather worringly there was a sign in Moorgate saying ‘road layout changed for social distancing’.

More evidence than usual of homelessness – saw several tents on the Embankment.

Not much evidence of permanently closed shops/businesses. I only saw one shop that actually had a sign saying they had closed down. Of course it’s hard to tell when nearly all shops are closed and many have probably taken stock out of the window to more secure locations.

Police presence – minimal. Three PCs on point duty outside the Bank of England. Saw a car and a van on patrol; one van in north London was stopped and constables were talking to a woman in a visor. On the Embankment, I saw one policeman holding a clipboard wave down a van on the way into Parliament Square. No evidence of any checkpoints or anything like that. No police on the beat, even in areas where one normally sees them.

Outdoor mask compliance – depressingly high: I estimate around 25%, including several cyclists and even a jogger! However quite a few people were wearing ‘chin diapers’ so their compliance was presumably just for form’s sake.

Anyway, overall it was rather depressing. I don’t think I’ll be going back any time soon. I suspect this is the lowest London has been since the Blitz and back then at least there was an air of defiance instead of resignation.

343447 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Cranmer, 8, #1038 of 2123 🔗

And back then we were all on the same side. Not anymore

343449 ▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Cecil B, 1, #1039 of 2123 🔗

Not quite – until the Germans broke their pact with the Soviets in 1941, quite a few people on the British left opposed the war.

343454 ▶▶▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to Cranmer, 3, #1040 of 2123 🔗

And I doubt we’ll ever know the extent to which significant parts of the Establishment were prepared to come to an accommodation with Hitler.

343465 ▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Cranmer, 1, #1041 of 2123 🔗

The Communist Resistance in France only got going after the invasion of Russia.

343469 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Cranmer, 3, #1042 of 2123 🔗

So is being homeless a valid exemption for not staying at home then? Wondering if I should rough up an old coat and stop shaving…

343487 ▶▶▶ iane, replying to zacaway, 2, #1043 of 2123 🔗

Hmm – pretty tricky to stay at home if homeless!

343497 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Cranmer, 1, #1044 of 2123 🔗

Have I missed something? Outdoor mask compliance? Has there been a change in the law guidance, directives ???

343529 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Ozzie, 1, #1045 of 2123 🔗

Not yet, just people either virtue signalling or adopting a comfort blanket.

343455 ▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to Caramel, 3, #1047 of 2123 🔗

And he’s quite right to do so- but not in the way he thinks he is.

343457 ▶▶ ChrisDinBristol, replying to Caramel, 9, #1048 of 2123 🔗

Yup, junk-pseudo-anti-science, in defiance of actual data (which IS science, if properly validated); endless virtue-signalling; persecution of contrary opinion as ‘dangerous’; circular reasoning; ad-hominem attacks; herd insanity; ‘cancel culture’ wrecking lives and careers; science by ‘concensus’; ruinous and counter-productive solutions to overstated (or non-existant in the case of HCCC) problems; insistence on ‘crisis’ and ’emergency’; all backed up by relentless propaganda and outright lies by MSM and the techno-elite.

He’s right, it’s the same thing.

343468 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Caramel, 2, #1049 of 2123 🔗

Got to step up the conflation if they are going to get there by 2030.

343483 ▶▶ iane, replying to Caramel, 4, #1050 of 2123 🔗

Yep – both entirely based on ridiculously simplistic computer models!

343490 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Caramel, 7, #1051 of 2123 🔗

I would literally do anything to shut that man up at this stage.

343499 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #1052 of 2123 🔗

Do it then, I’ll hold your coat.

343492 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Caramel, 7, #1053 of 2123 🔗

Called this months ago: climate science is the gateway drug to this idiocy.

Just remember his model for CJD is the same as saying in the next 10 years there will be between 3 and 3000 days of rain

343523 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to mhcp, 3, #1054 of 2123 🔗

I’m still fairly certain that some sort of modelled climate catastrophe is the leverage being used to coerce many officials worldwide into implementing and enforcing this travesty.

343559 ▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Caramel, 2, #1055 of 2123 🔗

That cunt needs killing

343564 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Caramel, #1056 of 2123 🔗

How does he find time to do any of his “science” when he’s so busy courting the media at every opportunity?

343732 ▶▶ Crystal Decanter, replying to Caramel, #1057 of 2123 🔗

Some of us still remember “Climategate”

344167 ▶▶ Richy_m_99, replying to Caramel, #1058 of 2123 🔗

Anyone know how much Neil Furguson receives in his role as Acting Director of the Secretariat, running the Vaccine Impact Modelling Consortium? I presume that it is paid position.

Strikes me as a huge conflict of interest if he is.

343442 Cecil B, 14, #1059 of 2123 🔗

Lovely day yesterday. Asymptomatic sun was shining

Met a few asymptomatic mates. We went to an asymptomatic pub for lunch. Asymptomatic Thai curry (seeing as you ask)

Four of five asymptomatic pints of real ale

Met an asymptomatic cop on the way home, he issued me with an asymptomatic fixed penalty ticket. Paid it straight away over my asymptomatic internet using my asymptomatic credit card

Struck down with asymptomatic covid in the evening, went and had an asymptomatic PCR test, came back positive

Proof the system works

343488 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to arfurmo, 3, #1061 of 2123 🔗

This makes no sense to me. I thought at least 5000% of the public supported the latest lockdown, so who are all these people supposedly ignoring the restrictions?

343692 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to A. Contrarian, #1062 of 2123 🔗

For lockdown read ‘furlogh’. People don’t love the restrictions but not working.

343495 ▶▶ Basics, replying to arfurmo, #1063 of 2123 🔗

Grant shapps is giving his medical expertise an airing along with his words might & may be. Grant seems to say the mutant eats their billion pound vaccines for breakfast, then asks for more.

Apparently shapps has said new variant isn’t beaten by vaccine. Which is wiffle, but in the news.

343514 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Basics, #1064 of 2123 🔗

Apparently this morning he was on Talk Radio saying that he would be fighting for our freedoms if they weren’t restored post vaccination of the vulnerable?!

I also saw something stating that both the UK and South African variants would definitely be covered by the vaccine, which seems to contradict your post?

343451 Liewe, 20, #1065 of 2123 🔗

Ha Ha Ha!! Saw two clients today who had respective workplaces closed down because someone had Covid. EVERYONE in those two businesses tested positive. Somehow they never question how they were all “infected” despite their masks, screens, asocial distancing and sanitizers.

A PCR test is a miraculous thing

343456 Cranmer, replying to Cranmer, 13, #1066 of 2123 🔗

At last, a small bit of good news: Clap for Carers: The Return has been a flop.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9122031/NHS-workers-criticise-return-Clap-Carers.html

343517 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Cranmer, 4, #1067 of 2123 🔗

Excellent news! I was listening out for it on my street yesterday evening, not a peep from anyone. Not even any mention on the local Arsebook community page (which was full of rightous clapping morons in the Spring).

343524 ▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to zacaway, 5, #1068 of 2123 🔗

I was interested to discover that the originator of the idea comes from the Netherlands. The idea is kind of un-British, when you think about it. Not that it did not have Brits enthusiastically following it.

343539 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Waldorf, 1, #1069 of 2123 🔗

Alien, as most of this lockdown (typed with an America drawl) is.

343458 TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 9, #1070 of 2123 🔗

The little dictator witch here in Scotland has said at her daily live dictatorship speech this,

“they are considering further restricting non-essential click and collect services, such as takeaways” so basically, we won’t be allowed to eat soon.

& the dictator’s dentist mate has said

“Mr Leitch assured Scots that the NHS has capacity and hasn’t run out of beds but said that many health baords are now operating at a “very high level” of occupancy”

Oh well, that’s alright then, the NHS is not overwhelmed but it might get overwhelmed with starving people…

I am genuinely getting very very angry at this the more & more that it goes on & gets more out of hand.

Oh & as an aside, the dictator’s police force have also said this,

Chief Constable Iain Livingston says the policing presence will be “maximised” as officers continue to clamp down on those flouting the rules,

Almost 550 people have been arrested, with officers intervening at “over 350 different premises”.

The details were announced as Chief Constable Livingstone confirmed police presence would be “maximised” in communities and on roads in order to deter those who might be thinking of breaking the rules.

I really don’t know what to say or think about this anymore, the vast majority of the sheep here just buy into all of this.

343475 ▶▶ Cranmer, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 8, #1071 of 2123 🔗

All the stuff about increased policing is, IMO, a bluff. Unless and until they announce an increase in police recruitment or the setting up of some sort of emergency police auxiliary service (like the War Reserve Constabulary in WW2) I don’t see that they can do much more as they just don’t have the manpower. The much vaunted ‘Covid Wardens’ don’t seem to have come to much either.

343479 ▶▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to Cranmer, 6, #1072 of 2123 🔗

Exactly. Calculated bluff and propaganda. We are many, they are few.

343501 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Cranmer, 6, #1073 of 2123 🔗

They want the people to police each other.

343536 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, 3, #1074 of 2123 🔗

Exactly but more, the need people to police each other.

343478 ▶▶ tony rattray, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 4, #1075 of 2123 🔗

Because wee krankie gives a speech every day, she needs to fill the time!

Summary – So the nhs is doing what it is paid to do over winter? Don’t cry! Well I never. Otherwise, I’m enjoying the attention and power trip on the path to a brave new scotland. Oh dear.

343486 ▶▶ ChrisDinBristol, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 6, #1076 of 2123 🔗

JEEZ! Just saw the footage of Police breaking into a family’s house in Aberdeen on UK Column. This really is what we’re coming to, as I’m sure we have all feared from the start.

http://www.ukcolumn.org

Apparently several members of said family might be prosecuted for assaulting the Police (with Der FuehrerSturge’s backing, of course). I understand that their young daughter, who had just returned from hospital and was laying on the floor while the Police continued to harrass the family in their living room, won’t be charged.

It’ll be all over the BBC, of course.

343489 ▶▶▶ TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, replying to ChrisDinBristol, 1, #1077 of 2123 🔗

Aye, I seen that this morning also, I meant to post about that aswell.
Shocking indeed.

343551 ▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to ChrisDinBristol, 1, #1078 of 2123 🔗

Mr 12 bores are ready

343503 ▶▶ Biker, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 6, #1079 of 2123 🔗

it’s busy outside, plenty folk not giving two fucks what bullshit Sturgeon says never mind some twat who thinks he’s a cop.

343511 ▶▶▶ TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, replying to Biker, 4, #1080 of 2123 🔗

It just gets me that the vast majority of sheep here seem to be lapping this shit up, I had a look at The wee dictator’s Twitter page & omg, it is the biggest arse sucking thing I’ve ever seen. Very very few are actually saying what a load of fucking shit this actually is, the vast majority are licking the wee dictator’s arsehole.

343553 ▶▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 1, #1081 of 2123 🔗

Licking her arse hole yuk

343562 ▶▶▶▶▶ TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, replying to Jaguarpig, #1082 of 2123 🔗

😂 😂 😂 figure of speech, but I agree with you, that is a gross thought 🤮 🤮 🤮

343518 ▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 2, #1083 of 2123 🔗

Non-essential is hard to define, as Duckegg Drakeford found in Wales. It’s always relative to the purchaser and the occasion.
So I suspect it’s more bluff and bluster from Comrade Krankiwitch.

343467 Llamasaurus Rex, replying to Llamasaurus Rex, 13, #1084 of 2123 🔗

We hear a lot about over zealous cops at the moment. I saw that the Met (In the DM a day ago) is issuing fines to non-maskurbators on first contact (on TFL), and putting the onus on the recipient to provide an exemption certificate within a narrow time window. Sounds like fake news. certainly sounds against the provisions put in place etc. Anybody got more details?

Also, I understand that if a cop approaches you, it’s within your right to ask whether it’s a consensual conversation (as opposed to an investigatory stop(?) or arrest). If so, you have the right to walk away, refuse to give details etc. In such a case, I’d be polite and maybe ask “am i free to leave” (not even sure about that, i might just say “ok, thanks, have.a nice day”, then walk).

can anyone here with knowledge help describe the parameters, rules? I’d be very grateful (most of what i see on the web is US-based, or out of date).

My expected scenario is a cop approaching me when I’m out walking my dog a few miles from home. I live in the middle of the countryside, no lights, very muddy…and like to go to the local town to walk with street lighting sometimes. Also keeps the dog socialised. Not that any of that should matter. I would like to know my ground, and having something sober and correct in mind may help me from telling them to go fuck themselves and stop behaving like the North Korean police-state scumbags they emulate.

343480 ▶▶ Crystal Decanter, replying to Llamasaurus Rex, 12, #1085 of 2123 🔗

I just pretend to be a dribbling mong and they leave me alone
You’d be surprised how well it works
Go full Rain Man

343500 ▶▶▶ Llamasaurus Rex, replying to Crystal Decanter, 9, #1086 of 2123 🔗

Great tactic. I just can’t pull it off. I’m too handsome and intelligent looking 👊🏻 🤪 👍🏻 🦙

343512 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Crystal Decanter, 5, #1087 of 2123 🔗

This is my plan, not a good actor but could easily be overtaken by a terrible panic attack causing me to hyperventilate to the point of passing out. Muttering to oneself is always a good tactic too.

343520 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #1088 of 2123 🔗

Beware, you don’t want them carting you off in an ambulance. I actually did hyperventilate during the beligerent Environmental Health Officer visit of last year. The cow thought she would teach me a lesson (or was covering her capacious arse, or both) by calling me an ambulance against mine, my business partner’s and my customers’ wishes.

343685 ▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to kh1485, 1, #1089 of 2123 🔗

Good point! I’ll tone it down a bit.

343549 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Crystal Decanter, 1, #1090 of 2123 🔗

You don’t want them to think you’re Boris though do you?

343491 ▶▶ Llamasaurus Rex, replying to Llamasaurus Rex, #1091 of 2123 🔗

PS Not sure that’s the right link to DM…I can’t find the original article.

343502 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Llamasaurus Rex, 4, #1092 of 2123 🔗

Sounds like a bit of the Freeman on the Land bullshit. The cops can and will do what the fuck they like to you. What you do with them is give your name and then if they want you to answer questions then you get a lawyer. Never say a word without a lawyers advice.

343509 ▶▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to Biker, 4, #1093 of 2123 🔗

You’re under no obligation even to give your name. If you’re willing to spend a couple of nights in a cell and are able to resist a bit of Bullycop 101 routine, all you have to say is “No comment”- as the recent case of a South Wales publican who the filth didn’t realise was a former CID officer showed. But most won’t do what he did.

343787 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Dermot McClatchey, #1094 of 2123 🔗

They have twenty-four hours unless they can get a Magistrate to extend. Get arrested on a Saturday afternoon and they can’t get a Magistrate before Monday. So they can hold you until Sunday afternoon.

343532 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Llamasaurus Rex, 5, #1095 of 2123 🔗

The police can ask questions of anyone

The is no legal obligation to answer a question or remain with the officer unless

1 Driving a motor vehicle you are obliged to give your name address and date of birth

2 If the officer has reasonable grounds to suspect you have committed an offence and you refuse to give your name and address they have a power to arrest you

3 You must give your name and address if the officer has reasonable grounds to suspect that you are committing an offence of anti social behaviour within the meaning of the Crime and Disorder Act

4 On licensed premises you are required to give your name and address if asked, if you refuse you commit an offence then 2 kicks in

5 All the covid laws have a power of arrest

There is not such thing as ‘detaining’ someone. You have a right to go about your lawful business without hinderance. The only way they can stop you is to arrest you

A word of caution however. It is not unknown for officers to fabricate the circumstances of any stop and subsequent arrest.

It is then your word against theirs, and a court is unlikely to believe you

Important therefore to record every encounter from the start

343542 ▶▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to Cecil B, 1, #1096 of 2123 🔗

Screen-capture, read, learn, print a copy off.

343721 ▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Cecil B, #1097 of 2123 🔗

I thought that PCSOs had the right to detain someone for up to 30 minutes until a police constable can be called to make an arrest.

343568 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Llamasaurus Rex, 3, #1098 of 2123 🔗

The guidelines have not changed – no requirement to provide an exemption certificate / reason. Sadly some officers pretend not to know the guidelines and then try to bait people into responding, if challenged afterwards then their media statement will be carefully worded.

If a person gets challenged, stay calm, do not provide answers – shoot yourself in the foot, if possible record the conversation and if it go as far as a penalty notice do not accept it.

343777 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Victoria, 2, #1099 of 2123 🔗

A friend of mine speaks several languages fluently. When he was arrested at a Poll Tax protest he pretended to only speak French. The police had to find a French speaker to interpret.

When the interpreter arrived, he pretended he could only speak Dutch (which the local yokel police assumed was German) and when that interpreter arrived, he had switched to Portuguese.

They let him go.

343763 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Llamasaurus Rex, #1100 of 2123 🔗

Some of these may be produced by a nudge unit. Some may be training videos. Some may be genuine. All of them may be genuine.

But I won’t be trusting anybody in any position of “authority”. It’s the wisest and safest course of action right now.

343472 Maccrobbo, replying to Maccrobbo, 1, #1101 of 2123 🔗
343541 ▶▶ quodcumque, replying to Maccrobbo, 3, #1102 of 2123 🔗

Beat me to it! What on earth is “classed as a picnic” supposed to mean? Is there any legal justification for this? The tone taken by the BBC seems almost supportive of the suggestion that exercise is now illegal if performed with a coffee and nobody should ever be allowed to exercise except within a few feet of their door.

343565 ▶▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to quodcumque, 3, #1103 of 2123 🔗

The whole thing- both the the behaviour of the filth and the BBC reporting of it- is a co-ordinated pour-encourager-les-autres exercise. I’ve been out and about quite a bit on hospital visits for me and for members of the family in the last few days. One cop-car driving purposefully (not on recce), no pigs on the ground at all.

343588 ▶▶▶▶ quodcumque, replying to Dermot McClatchey, 3, #1104 of 2123 🔗

Would really encourage anyone living in Derbyshire to write to the Police and Crime Commissioner. The contact form is here and requires an address.

343717 ▶▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Dermot McClatchey, #1105 of 2123 🔗

Yes, it’s ridiculous staged propaganda of the type Pravda would be proud of. See my earlier post – in a two hour bike ride around Westminster and the City of London today I saw a total of six police constables.

343690 ▶▶▶ Annie, replying to quodcumque, 1, #1106 of 2123 🔗

Don’t forget that a couple if days into the first incarceration, Loathsome Wankok threatened to take away our ‘privilege’ of going outside for half an hour a day.

343482 Polemon2, 3, #1107 of 2123 🔗

Good analysis of NHS vs public. David Starkey-The Critic – June 2020

https://thecritic.co.uk/issues/june-2020/the-nhs-is-the-new-church-militant-and-triumphant/

343506 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 17, #1108 of 2123 🔗

I’m illegally staying with the parents in Dorset at the moment, although it will be less illegal to drive home than it was to drive down, since there are no Tier boundaries to cross any more.

They live in a small town nearish the coast. There is a constant stream of traffic passing along the main road for most of the day. Where are all these people going? I’m genuinely curious. The only venue options are the supermarket or the pharmacy, how many times per day does a sensible lockdown-supporting person need to visit one of those?

All dog walkers here behave normally as per usual. But the crazies seem crazier than they do back home, if that’s possible. Lots of masks in the open air in the middle of the deserted heath, refusal to pass others on a path that is 3m wide, etc.

Only one person on the road came out to clap last night, looked like a right twat.

343525 ▶▶ Julian, replying to A. Contrarian, 7, #1109 of 2123 🔗

I’m not a dog person but it’s always nice to see the many dog walkers out, maskless and often chatting to one another

343679 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Julian, 2, #1110 of 2123 🔗

Not sure I’ve ever met a petrified dog walker yet. Good job as my puppy wants to say hello to everyone…

343545 ▶▶ leggy, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #1111 of 2123 🔗

Maybe next week the lone clapper should be showered with rotten fruit and veg.

I’ve just been out to the Post Office and indulged myself in a portion of chips on the way back. Only a 6 mile round trip, but passed dozens and dozens of other cars. It’s nothing like lockdown 1.

343658 ▶▶ Annie, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1112 of 2123 🔗

Being a dog owner hereabouts seems to be a pretty good guarantee of sanity. Though I except some poor zombie-owned pooches are being confined to the house, and sanitised three times a day.

343682 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Annie, #1113 of 2123 🔗

Yes – doggy lockdown is a thing, I’m sure.

343788 ▶▶ bucky99, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1114 of 2123 🔗

It was never illegal to cross Tier boundaries, only restrictions were on who you could meet up with once you’d done so.

343507 captainbeefheart, replying to captainbeefheart, 9, #1115 of 2123 🔗

“Comedy” sketch

Scene: It’s May 1943. Members of the RAF 617 division assemble to hear of a new mission they will be ordered to shortly carry out called “Operation Chastise”

COMMANDER: Right, listen up. A clever bloke called Barnes Wallis has developed a way for us to take out hydroelectric dams in Nazi occupied territory by using a new weapon called a “bouncing bomb”. We need you to fly to the dams armed with the bomb and drop it at exactly the right distance and height in order to hit the dams. They are heavily defended with anti-aircraft weapons.

BOMBER-PILOT-1: With all due respect Sir, doesn’t this sound a bit dangerous? It sounds very risky, people might die.

COMMANDER: Fair point. I’ll call Churchill and suggest we unconditionally surrender. Jenkins!

JENKINS: Yes Sir

COMMANDER: Assemble a crew and start building concentration camps

JENKINS: Yes Sir!

COMMANDER: Harris, start rounding up Jewish people, socialists or pretty much anyone else Hitler doesn’t like

HARRIS: But my wife is Jewish Sir

COMMANDER: THAT IS AN ORDER HARRIS! If just one life can be saved by us not bombing these dams, then so be it!

COMMANDER: I think Hitler will like our dog, I hear he likes animals, send it to him as a gift.

343527 ▶▶ mj, replying to captainbeefheart, 7, #1116 of 2123 🔗

the aircrews would have been arrested by Derbyshire police for an unnecessary pleasure flight over Ladybower reservoir whilst practicing

343513 mhcp, #1117 of 2123 🔗

One aspect that I was thinking is that the spike we had in deaths due to policy changes and NHS rearrangement caused a herding effect on deaths. But from the early flu of 2019/2020 and the weaker season between 2018/2019 those people appear to have got two more quality years hopefully with family and friends seeing them.

Those that are elderly and are still alive don’t appear to be getting that.

343522 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 7, #1118 of 2123 🔗

Is there any chance that London is seeing a vaxidemic? Dr John Lee ws suggesting those vs instead would trigger positive tests for Covid.

If London was first out of the starting blocks on the vaccine and the vaccine is making people ill as the manufacturers admit then might be the case.

Does anyone have the regional figures for numbers of vaccinations. ?

343570 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to OKUK, 1, #1119 of 2123 🔗

Government has promised to start a rolling tracker for the public.

343593 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to OKUK, #1120 of 2123 🔗

Don’t know about a vaxdemic, but London’s PCR testing went through the roof first week of December.

343596 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Ceriain, 1, #1121 of 2123 🔗

Subsequently ‘cases’ did too. Seek and ye shall find!

In this case, a ‘casedemic’!

343526 Basics, replying to Basics, 9, #1122 of 2123 🔗

Tip of the hat to Russia for not invading UK at a time when they clearly could and would be most welcome. Goes to show not all enemies of the British Government (and the toy regional ones) are what we are told they are.

Recalling the moment in late Spring or early Summer when a Russian ship was ‘escorted’ past our green and pleasant land.

So, thanks very much Russia for not invading.

343538 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Basics, 6, #1123 of 2123 🔗

Don’t be too hasty, B; we’ve got another week till that happens. As I posted last night:

Newsnight Special: 16th January 2031
Emily Maitlis is interviewing Brigadier Woolfson Hardman-Blighty (retired) about his new bestseller Russia Invades, 2021, on the 10th anniversary of the sudden invasion of the UK by Putin’s Russia.

EM: “It’s a fascinating story, Brigadier. Tell me, where was the army?”
Brigadier: “Delivering Covid vaccines to old folks homes and testing schoolkids, m’dear.”

😉

343543 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Ceriain, 2, #1124 of 2123 🔗

My hat correctly straightened i walk sharply away.

343572 ▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Basics, 1, #1125 of 2123 🔗

Interesting that I’m not the only person considering Putin invading a possiblity. 🙂

343537 Ganjan21, replying to Ganjan21, 17, #1126 of 2123 🔗

Finding all the police stuff interesting. Apparently the police have new ‘powers’ as of midnight last night here in N Ireland.
I am friendly with another Mum who I met in my eldests pre-natal classes. We meet up from time to time for play dates. She is in the police (the recruitment end of things) and her husband is a policeman on the ground. He had to go and break up university student parties back in September, she said he hated it. There were no arrests or ugliness, just had to break up the parties after neighbours complained.
Before Christmas even though you were only allowed to see whoever was in your bubble indoors, she asked a couple of us Mums round to her house for a playdate with th elittle ones and coffee for us, saying she wasnt worried about Covid. Only for one other Mum chin wobbling about it, it never happened.
She asked me and another Mum to meet up in a playpark tomorrow with the kids, so essentially, breaking the ‘rules’. She has made a few sceptical comments before and said she would rather her almost 3 year old get some social time with other children before anything.
Anyway, meeting her tomorrow afternoon. Yes, meeting a policewoman mother who will happily bend rules. I am tempted to pick her brain on a few matters.

343554 ▶▶ Crystal Decanter, replying to Ganjan21, 2, #1127 of 2123 🔗

Subterfuge is fun

343576 ▶▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to Crystal Decanter, #1128 of 2123 🔗

But always take precautions!

343567 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Ganjan21, 1, #1129 of 2123 🔗

Have a carer for my kid and she is a policeman’s wife. They are keeping things right but nothing over the top. Very relaxed about the whole thing. He’s had heart issues in tbe past too. NI as well.

343610 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Ganjan21, #1130 of 2123 🔗

here in N Ireland.”

… and, of course, the thing about NI is that absolutely nothing is happening in terms of abnormal mortality. No area on the planet could scarcely be more uneventful.

343544 Binra, 1, #1131 of 2123 🔗

I feel to zoom out from details and state that ‘narrative leverage’ is being given priority of attention, intention, funding and invested identity.
On one level this is as simple as ‘Simon Says’ and does so as a lockstepped authoritarianism masking as public concern. The lockstepping is the result of the setting up of drills under the aegis of a consortium of interests over many decades. The regulatory structures that are set in place were ostensibly for effective emergencies, with considerable funding from private public partnerships that constitute the capture of the public sector to financial and corporate entities and elitist private networks of active social engineering. The PR of such regulatory mission creep has been orchestrated via the use of the Media and key opinion leaders, to set up narratives that are similar to those of Banksters selling repackaged toxic debt in the guise of complex financial instruments posing as appreciable assets. This use of a manipulative narrative deceit is pervasive and endemic to corporate and captive political leverages as a captive revenue stream of a managed human ‘system’ or ‘stock’.

The pretext of a deadly virus threat is more of a novel than a real threat, but by leveraging fear and panic to preempt a grounded and considered response, a split off ‘dissociative’ identity is generated as an effectively hypnotised identity or personality disorder that has made the fear and threat real BY its emotionally invested reaction to some level of a complex narrative that is actively self-concealing and evasive of any real process of evaluation or communication.

While greed (itself an addictive disorder) can be seen as the never satiated drive for more and more control. this is associated with the most flagrant plunder and waste of resources, while the driving force for any addictive and manipulative lie is the underlying disconnection, lack and compulsive overriding of relational honesty to both get ‘fixed’ and to protect the complex of presentations and narratives by which to maintain a face or credibility, authority and social acceptability. It is this complex that can be represented as a corrupted system across such a wide and pervasive economic and social spectrum as to invoke ‘too big to fail’ in allowing almost ANY of its lack of true substance to be revealed – for the risk of exposing a ‘house of cards’ that can only ‘survive’ by being kept secret or under official narratives that are part of a ‘control state’ of always increasing denial of rights, responsibility and freedom for an opaque and authoritative ‘security state’ under global of ‘transhuman’ jurisdiction.

This post continues to completion at
https://willingness-to-listen.blogspot.com/2021/01/what-was-largely-hidden-is-now-open.html

343550 DanClarke, replying to DanClarke, 8, #1132 of 2123 🔗

Why do we never get results of hospital discharged. I was told a lot of the numbers are from certain hospitals and due to people panicking, going to hospital, being ‘admitted’ for a few hours, or an overnight then being discharged. Time has come when we need institutions for the HYSTERICS, and the rest of us can continue with our lives.

343560 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to DanClarke, 3, #1133 of 2123 🔗

Being admitted with or without a PCR test? It’s a complete shambles, a large chunk of which is self fulfilling

343563 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to DanClarke, #1134 of 2123 🔗

We do, Dan. Those numbers are in a document that is released monthly, and can be found here:
https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-hospital-activity/

The latest iteration is the December version; look for the link called: December 2020 COVID Publication (XLSX, 10.8MB)

The January summary (should cover up to the first few days of 2021) is due out on January 14.

343599 ▶▶▶ DanClarke, replying to Ceriain, #1135 of 2123 🔗

Thanks

343552 Ceriain, replying to Ceriain, 18, #1136 of 2123 🔗

So when the over 80’s continue to die after being vaccinated, as they will, what are they going to say killed them?

Definitely NOT the vaccine!
Can’t be Covid; they’ve been vaccinated!

Don’t tell me… they’ll say the flu is back; or worse…

Poor thing died of old age!

343587 ▶▶ jb12, replying to Ceriain, 1, #1137 of 2123 🔗

New strain morphing to ‘climate change’, lockdown forever.

343673 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Ceriain, 5, #1138 of 2123 🔗

Didn’t you know? Old people die all the time, it’s totally normal. They’ve had a great run if they get to 80+, we can’t live forever etc etc.

UNLESS COVID GETS THEM IN WHICH CASE THEIR LIVES HAVE BEEN CUT TRAGICALLY SHORT AND WE SHOULD BANKRUPT THE COUNTRY TO SAVE THEM!!!

343683 ▶▶▶ Annie, replying to A. Contrarian, 7, #1139 of 2123 🔗

It’s the difference between ‘die’ and ‘sadlidie’.
I would define a lockdown sceptic as a person who wants to live before they die.

343689 ▶▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Annie, 3, #1140 of 2123 🔗

People don’t die from Covid, they ‘tragically die’ or ‘sadly die’. It must be some higher form of death, like apotheosis or something.

343700 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1141 of 2123 🔗

UNLESS COVID GETS THEM IN WHICH CASE THEIR LIVES HAVE BEEN CUT
TRAGICALLY SHORT AND WE SHOULD BANKRUPT THE COUNTRY TO SAVE THEM!!!

Yup! Sounds about right.

343586 ▶▶ jb12, replying to PastImperfect, #1143 of 2123 🔗

I watched that earlier and wasted almost 17 mins waiting for the, what turned out to be clickbait, headline to happen.

343556 Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #1144 of 2123 🔗

Stop getting it 100% right. Carl Vernon.
https://youtu.be/0x2yZCt5HR8

343619 ▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to Basics, #1145 of 2123 🔗

If Carl Vernon is 100% then what is the government percentage? Zero.

343628 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Basics, 1, #1146 of 2123 🔗

fantastic

343561 Silke David, 6, #1147 of 2123 🔗

My weekly local newspaper is just full of covid-hysteria today.
Two articles about different schools testing almost 100% of staff and pupils. One school, looking after vulnerable students, had “over 99% consent from the parents”. Firstly, what is over 99%? 99.1? How can a person be 0.1?
A local football club calling bored youths who vandalised buildings “covidiots”. Yes, vandalism is not the solution to being forced off school, but I think their anger should be towards the officials who close schools.

343571 Cecil B, 36, #1148 of 2123 🔗

Notice displayed on the local bus stop

To whom it may concern

When East Germany fell all the Stasi records were thrown out in the street where they were blown around on the wind and available for all to read

The records included all the names and addresses of the informants and who they had informed on

Please Stay Safe

343575 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 23, #1149 of 2123 🔗

Calling all Lockdown zealots. Just pause for one second and look around you. Look at the world you’ve encouraged to create. You are cretins.

343646 ▶▶ Annie, replying to Achilles, 3, #1150 of 2123 🔗

Zombies can’t see. anything that isn’t on a TV or computer screen.

343577 tony rattray, 2, #1151 of 2123 🔗

MAJOR INCIDENT LONDON! COVID IS NOW OUT OF CONTROL! DON’T TELL THE FRENCH!

Dad’s Army: DON’T PANIC (supercut) – YouTube

343580 Ken Garoo, 3, #1152 of 2123 🔗

First, the health service is under severe stress and unless we can reduce virus transmission over the next few weeks it’s at serious risk of being overwhelmed. That wasn’t true when the second national lockdown was imposed in November, he says, but it is today.

The NHS is always ‘overwhelmed’ at this time of year. It is a consequence of accountants/management maximising bed occupancy. If all beds are always occupied, there is no spare capacity when needed. The issue is also complicated by staff shortages, not aided by threats relating to ‘staying on message’.

Second, we now have two approved Covid vaccines, with more to follow, so any new restrictions will be short-lived.

The terget criteron for a ‘successful’ vaccine is slight reduction of some symptoms in mild cases of the disease. Their efficacy is based on unverified manafacturers data. The mRNA variants have never been used on humans before so there is zero knowledge of long term complications.

Third, there is a new variant of SARS-CoV-2 which is around 50% more transmissible than the pre-existing variants.

SARS-CoV-19 is a rapidly mutating RNA virus. It will gradually selectively adapt to co-existing with the host, becoming yet another seasonal respiratory disease, like that other coronavirus, the common cold. Figures from NERVTAG suggest this new variant (known since September) was associated with 4 out of 1000 deaths. The number of other variants is unknown 10? 100? 1000? 10000?

343584 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 13, #1153 of 2123 🔗

There is NO LAW against travelling to exercise.

Police have NO POWER to enforce guidance.

Policing “acting in the spirit of lockdown” is NOT A THING.

https://twitter.com/libertyhq/status/1347520075985793026

343643 ▶▶ Annie, replying to Victoria, 2, #1154 of 2123 🔗

Working towards the Führer. Führer says he doesn’t like Jews, you kill six million of them.

343864 ▶▶ Wilko, replying to Victoria, #1155 of 2123 🔗

So this is why we train and pay our Police Service ? Have they reverted to a Police Force? Who the fuck decided to assign these officers to this ridiculous task ? I’d like
to think the officers involved were as embarrassed as fuck.

343589 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 25, #1156 of 2123 🔗

Was delivering to a GP/pharmacy today.

Finished and was walking out with the staff holding the door open.

Obviously well to do, smart dressed, middle class 40ish sanctimonious wanker with a supercillious expression on his face waiting in the queue to go in says “Where’s your mask?” in a loud voice.

I turned round and said “See my exemption though it’s none of your fucking business”.

He looked down, apologised (I think, couldn’t hear him as I’m mostly deaf) and looked away.

Rest of the sheeple in the queue shut up, looked down. One guy came to the van to say he wasn’t the one who confronted me and thought I had answered him directly, he got short shrift and was told to fuck off when he threatened to punch my lights out. He scarpered when I went to open the door.

Staff looked delighted that someone had stood up.

Highlights of the week:

  1. Telling the people I’m delivering to that these are the good test kits (LFT) and they don’t give as many false positives and give a lot lower real positives than the PCR tests being used to ramp up the numbers whenever they want a new scary number.
  2. Telling them when they are happy to receive the test kit they won’t be smiling when the swab is pushed into their brains later.
  3. Having a real good chat with an older female pharmacist who was a total sceptic. neither of us could figure out why, if the virus is that deadly we can catch it from sneezing or being near people, do they have to stick a swab to your brain to get a trace of it. Surely sneezing into a rag would give enough of a sample?
  4. Saw a maximum of 6 cars at one drive through test centre but otherwise they have all been empty.
  5. GPs almost totally empty – no queues for the flu jab, no queues for the covid jab,

All in all a fun(ish) week.

343601 ▶▶ rockoman, replying to Awkward Git, 9, #1157 of 2123 🔗

“Rest of the sheeple in the queue shut up, looked down.”

Shutting up and looking down is what sheeple do.

It defines them.

343642 ▶▶ Annie, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1158 of 2123 🔗

Take Bozo with you next week.

343653 ▶▶ Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1159 of 2123 🔗

Per point #3, we had Dr. Larry Palevsy (sceptic pediatrician in the US) as a guest for one of our Vaccine Choice Canada meetings and he made the same point. Swabs have always been taken from just inside the nose — never a swab that goes that far inside the nose. He doesn’t understand the need for this super invasive swab either.

343686 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, 3, #1160 of 2123 🔗

Yes. I’ve not believed this from the beginning. As said – it makes no sense at all except in terms of a submission ritual.

I’ve refused several PCR nose swabs on this basis of unnecessary invasiveness (I do have a genuine problem with the extreme sensitivity of my nose, anyway). ‘Take a normal swab and use a <20-25 Ct and I won’t object’ is my position – it might yield some broadly reliable result.

I try not to get into confrontation – it’s not the poor buggers tasked with taking swabs who are to blame. It’s those who devised a meaningless ritual.

343591 Victoria, 5, #1161 of 2123 🔗

re Covid / Vaccine only NHS

1.Pam Julian
NO! Why should I when my young grandson needs a second liver transplant, his scan has been cancelled for the second time, he can’t have his blood tested at the moment, and the children’s ward is now for Covid patients!

https://twitter.com/PamJulian8/status/1347471965129498624

2.NZambra

Was due an ultrasound next week (been waiting since November). Just been informed it’s cancelled, no new date set, and if I have concerns I should contact my GP.

NHS = No Healthcare Supplied.

https://twitter.com/NZambra43/status/1347525469516820486

343594 Fingerache Philip, replying to Fingerache Philip, 27, #1162 of 2123 🔗

2 years ago my wife and myself had really bad flu and we both lost half a stone and it took about 4 months to finally get over it.
I am sure that if it happened now, we would both be in hospital which would be and is, totally unnecessary.
I am sure that hundreds if not thousands of people,are in that situation now, when they could stop at home and self medicate and that would be that, instead of the whole country/world running around like headless chickens.

343597 ▶▶ rockoman, replying to Fingerache Philip, 16, #1163 of 2123 🔗

Oh I see Philip, you both had ‘Long Flu’ did you?

In future, you will be able to demand that your area be locked down for six months.

343627 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to rockoman, 1, #1164 of 2123 🔗

Don’t give them ideas!

343688 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to rockoman, 2, #1165 of 2123 🔗

In future, you will be able to demand that your area be locked down for six months.

Not as funny as you think. Handjob has already suggested such a plan for the future for all seasonal diseases, believe it, or not.

343614 ▶▶ M_Aurelius_knew, replying to Fingerache Philip, 1, #1166 of 2123 🔗

Jaroslav Hasek knew, in his book “The Good Soldier Svejk” … the German general said it, albeit about the Czechs at the time, but it now applies to the whole world …

“Das ganze Tschechishe Folk ist ein Simulantbande”… “The whole Czech nation is filled with those pretending to be ill.”

343621 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Fingerache Philip, 14, #1167 of 2123 🔗

Agree, a few years ago I had either a really bad cold or mild flu that meant I couldn’t get out of bed for a few days (very rare for me) and took me 3-4 weeks to recover.

If those being tested are really sick they wouldn’t be able to queue for a test or have the energy to queue. I’m still not convinced all those in hospital with ‘it’ are true, everybody admitted is having a PCR test which as we know is not accurate and they will keep testing until it registers +.

From the outside looking in this whole farce is a fantastic example of controlling a population, fear, masks, asymptomatic infection and a test that can be used to find as many +’ves as required.

Masks continue the illusion of disease. A superb marketing tool with the added benefit of making people sick!!!

This is a war against a silent (alleged) killer.

If people used a bit of common sense and humanity it is a whole different scenario.

343632 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to stefarm, #1168 of 2123 🔗

I and all of us WISH!

343726 ▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to stefarm, 1, #1169 of 2123 🔗

For all we know, covid has been around before and this latest version of it is more virulent. For all we know, covid was identified years ago as a potential bio-weapon and, after years of testing, was found to produce just enough havoc that it decided that it was time to unleash its power on the world population.

343637 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Fingerache Philip, 7, #1170 of 2123 🔗

Such severe cases do happen with a variety of viruses every year. Some years, the intensity is worse than in others. I’ve had two bad ‘flu viruses in my lifetime, and wouldn’t wish such on anyone. But I haven’t spent every subsequent infection season committing social suicide as a preventative measure.

343675 ▶▶ Crystal Decanter, replying to Fingerache Philip, 5, #1171 of 2123 🔗

Glandular fever have repercussions 6 months – 2 years
most people get a swollen throat for a few days
Never heard it called “ long glandula r” before

343715 ▶▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to Crystal Decanter, 1, #1172 of 2123 🔗

long glandular – is that longer than, say, 7″?

344121 ▶▶ Marialta, replying to Fingerache Philip, 1, #1173 of 2123 🔗

Shame you couldn’t attend one of the 40 clinics which are being set up now for Long Covid Sufferers

343604 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Tyneside Tigress 2021, 10, #1175 of 2123 🔗

Still don’t want or need the vaccine!

343720 ▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to Poppy, 1, #1176 of 2123 🔗

Stay the course.

343618 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Tyneside Tigress 2021, 3, #1177 of 2123 🔗

Mmm why would anyone believe this article?

343598 Marg, replying to Marg, 4, #1178 of 2123 🔗

In Israel they seem to be getting the vaccine rolled out quickly, there has been a few deaths, they haven’t confirmed if there is any connection to the vaccine. They have also given quite a high number who have tested positive afterwards. We don’t get any information in UK, but the case numbers seem to have soared after the roll out of the vaccine in December. Just saying – makes you wonder if this is why they are expecting NHS to be overwhelmed

343615 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Marg, 2, #1179 of 2123 🔗

Positive tests skyrocketed in Portugal a few months ago I recall after they started the winter flu jab campaign.

Cause and effect?

Or just a coincidence?

343624 ▶▶▶ Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #1180 of 2123 🔗

I’ve stopped believing in coincidences. There is evidence that the flu vaccine increases susceptibility to other respiratory infections and speculation that the particular flu vaccine given to the elderly in Italy in 2019 had something to do with their high mortality rate.

343707 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Marg, #1181 of 2123 🔗

daily cases have rocketed in Israel as well
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/

343922 ▶▶ Suzyv, replying to Marg, #1182 of 2123 🔗

Actually when Dr John Lee was interviewed by JHB about 3 days ago he said he expects the no of positive results to go u as the vaccine is rolled out. He didn’t expand in the short interview I watched. I don’t know whether he meant they will ramp up the testing even more (as he had been talking earlier about all the false positives) or whether if there’s something in the vaccine.. I suspect the former. I have also heard something about cases and deaths higher in areas where the flu jab has been rolled out… This was supposedly the case in Nrth Italy. People are definitely getting pestered more to have a flu jab. And yet they say flu has virtually disappeared…

343600 M_Aurelius_knew, 10, #1183 of 2123 🔗

Stay strong, Toby. Sadly the majority prefer notions of “safety” and “protection” over freedom. They only understand emotions, and have not the patience nor character to comprehend reason…

343602 Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, 15, #1184 of 2123 🔗

Just seen this on the Daily Mail:

And a poll reveals more people are planning to take the Covid vaccine, up to 85 per cent from 78 per cent last month.

So the scare mongering of the mutant virus has done wonders – more compliance and support in lockdown, police exercising their “new powers”, schools closed. It is a wonder that Johnson managed to pull the scare stunt again after it became known about widely from lockdown 1 – people have short memories.

343603 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Ozzie, 26, #1185 of 2123 🔗

Well if more people voluntarily take the vaccine then there will be less pressure on those who don’t want it… let the sheep line up first.

343640 ▶▶▶ Jane G, replying to Poppy, 14, #1186 of 2123 🔗

Quite. I’m perfectly relaxed about the masked wonders taking it, if that’s what they want. I’m finding I’m getting sociopathic, the more people jump out of my way or display wuss-like tendencies. Hopefully the health tzars will leave me and mine alone if they get enough sheep into the dip.

343661 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Jane G, 6, #1187 of 2123 🔗

Yes, but this is the nightmare precedent for how future new viruses/mutations of existing viruses will be handled

Evil people everywhere will know that if they get control of the narrative they can manufacture fear and therefore control

343752 ▶▶▶▶ JaneHarry, replying to Jane G, 2, #1188 of 2123 🔗

never fear, they’ll come for you eventually. they’ll come for us all.

343678 ▶▶▶ Annie, replying to Poppy, 1, #1189 of 2123 🔗

Indeed. They are our experimental animals.

343611 ▶▶ rockoman, replying to Ozzie, 5, #1190 of 2123 🔗

No reason to believe it.

The job of published opinion polls is to form opinion, not reflect it.

Information is valuable.

Decison makers have access to their own private polls, which they need to be accurate, because they want to know what opinion actually is.

That stuff is far too sensitive to be made generally available.

343668 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to rockoman, 4, #1191 of 2123 🔗

The job of published opinion polls is to form opinion, not reflect it.

Great comment. 👍🏻

343613 ▶▶ DanClarke, replying to Ozzie, 3, #1192 of 2123 🔗

The DM is a lot of the problem, they write irresponsible articles, not realising they are included in this promotion of evil

343663 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to DanClarke, 5, #1193 of 2123 🔗

Oh I think they realise

343723 ▶▶▶ Crystal Decanter, replying to DanClarke, #1194 of 2123 🔗

You mean “ Hitler – greatest living German
That Daily Mail

343669 ▶▶ Crystal Decanter, replying to Ozzie, 3, #1195 of 2123 🔗

Sceptics don’t take polls
25% of the covidians still won’t have the frankenjab
ha ha

343674 ▶▶ John Galt, replying to Ozzie, 4, #1196 of 2123 🔗

A YouGov poll, no doubt.

These polls are specifically targeted at people who they know will vote for the agenda they’re pushing. If you signed up for a poll and said “I will never get the vaccine”, you’ll never be emailed to take another poll related to Coronavirus. If you signed up for a poll and said “I will gladly get the vaccine and these lockdown measures don’t go far enough”, you’ll be bombarded to take part.

Don’t get demoralised by this propaganda. They don’t reflect reality. I’d say take off 30 to 40 per cent and you’ll get the real numbers.

343736 ▶▶ Maverick, replying to Ozzie, #1197 of 2123 🔗

It seems to me people are either mindless zombies, unable to think for themselves or free thinking, liberty loving, independent minded, sceptics. Very few fall in the middle.

343605 bebophaircut, 4, #1198 of 2123 🔗

The New Urban Agenda, Habitat 3, presented by the United Nations around 2 and a half years ago. Sustainable Urbanization. 2018 to 2021. Their goal, end extreme poverty. Fail!

343606 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1199 of 2123 🔗

Ah, The Charge of the Light brigade.

Captured the Russian guns (which most people don’t know) so it was a success against all odds and incompetent leadership.

Unfortunately they couldn’t hold them as the heavy brigade turned back thinking they were all dead.

More soldiers died in hospital later than in the actual charge partly caused by how Florence Nightingale was such a crap nurse.

Really good book called Hell Riders about it by Terry Brighton.

Strange coincidence, apparently there were 666 (the 600 came from the poem written later by Tennyson as it sounded better) cavalrymen confirmed as charging the Russian guns.

343625 ▶▶ Alan P, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1200 of 2123 🔗

No! The charge of the Scots Greys at Waterloo 1815. Painting by Lady Butler. See earlier comments.

343671 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Alan P, #1201 of 2123 🔗

AG was probably referring to the caption.

343699 ▶▶▶▶ Alan P, replying to Mark, #1202 of 2123 🔗

Ah! Didn’t see that. Still the Crimean war was a monumental ballsup so I can see the correlation to what’s going on now.

343629 ▶▶ Jonny S., replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1203 of 2123 🔗

Don’t know what that’s all about but very interesting non the less. Cheers.

343607 DanClarke, replying to DanClarke, 6, #1204 of 2123 🔗

Do they care how many die after the vaccine, is this the plan, will they cover that up too. People are just going blindly into a dangerous situation, like sheep to the slaughter.

343617 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to DanClarke, 4, #1205 of 2123 🔗

Nope, never had. A vaccine death is normally for the greater good – very sad though if it is your family member

343656 ▶▶ penelope pitstop, replying to DanClarke, 6, #1206 of 2123 🔗

any deaths arising from the vaxx will be covered up you can be sure of that!

343664 ▶▶ Crystal Decanter, replying to DanClarke, 5, #1207 of 2123 🔗

Vaxx deaths will be “ Covid related
same as suicides
cancers
heart disease
strokes

343704 ▶▶▶ l835, replying to Crystal Decanter, 4, #1208 of 2123 🔗

There won’t be any vaccine related deaths….

343698 ▶▶ Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, replying to DanClarke, 4, #1209 of 2123 🔗

Yes, like the 56-year-old OB from Miami who died from the vaccine. Pfizer is “looking into it” but does not believe this perfectly healthy doctor’s death was related to the vaccine. His wife believes otherwise. At least this story has been attracting attention.

343796 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to DanClarke, 1, #1210 of 2123 🔗

If someone dies, for whatever reasons, within 28 days of a positive test it is a Covid death. If a healthy person dies 1 or 2 days after being vaccinated it’s nothing more than a “coincidence”.

343609 SurreyAlan, replying to SurreyAlan, 1, #1211 of 2123 🔗

Re supermarket workers, pre masks I used to ask how many were off sick every time I visited, hardly anyone was the reply. As a regular at local Waitrose I know many of the staff, none of them. Dont bother with the vaccine get a job at a supermarket.
PS don’t go for a walk in Derbyshire with a coffee, they call that a picnic and will fine you £200 as it’s not exercise (BBC so must be true). Await reply from my MP about where it says this in legislation or indeed about staying local as it seems police just fine people with no basis in law, Napoleonic law has landed.

343896 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to SurreyAlan, #1212 of 2123 🔗

You can quote the law all you like but if you choose your day in court and something goes wrong (magistrates often side with the police) then you can end up with a career-ruining criminal conviction. It’s not as simple as the “this officer didn’t apply the legislation properly”, they have a lot of discretion on the ground.

343623 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 8, #1213 of 2123 🔗

I thought it was first parody and fake. Is this really true?

 https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1347190962473345026


“BBC staff will be tested for the coronavirus twice a week, under new plans laid out in a memo today. They will also be given “Social Distance Proximity Devices” at the entrance, which you wear around your neck and apparently beep when you’re within 2m of each other.”

343639 ▶▶ rockoman, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1214 of 2123 🔗

Unfortunately, …

343641 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, 11, #1215 of 2123 🔗

I fear BBC journalists have a far more deadly infection than Corona virus – and its cultivated rather than treated.

343648 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1216 of 2123 🔗

W1A made reality …

343662 ▶▶ Crystal Decanter, replying to swedenborg, 4, #1217 of 2123 🔗

Shame they can’t test them for Paedophilia

343746 ▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Crystal Decanter, 6, #1218 of 2123 🔗

If they get too close to a child, an alarm sounds which plays the theme tune to Jim’ll Fix It.

343847 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Crystal Decanter, #1219 of 2123 🔗

It’s part of the application form. They ask do you fuck kids if they say yes they are hired if they say no they ask do you mind if others fuck kids if they say no they’re hired if they say yes they don’t get the job

343665 ▶▶ Annie, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1220 of 2123 🔗

Surely they mean bleat, not beep?

343677 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1221 of 2123 🔗

If I was working there I’d be offski

343691 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to swedenborg, 3, #1222 of 2123 🔗

The next obvious question is which company manufactures the device and which one of Matt Hancocks family is on the board.

343709 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1223 of 2123 🔗

rather than a beep, how about an electric shock

343638 Awkward Git, 4, #1224 of 2123 🔗
343657 John Galt, replying to John Galt, 23, #1226 of 2123 🔗

I’m so, so tired of this imbecilic “oh my god the NHS is overwhelmed!” argument. And to see a daily update saying “GUYS, GUYS, THIS IS REALLY, ACTUALLY, TOTALLY BAD NOW!” is just nauseating.

THE NHS IS AWFUL AND HAS BEEN AWFUL FOR MY ENTIRE LIFETIME!

EVERY YEAR IT IS OVERWHELMED!

THE NHS BED CAPACITY HAS DECREASED BY NEARLY 260,000 BEDS IN THE YEARS THAT THE POPULATION HAS GONE UP BY OVER 11 MILLION!

THE NHS REQUEST THAT THEIR STAFF TAKE 2 COVID TESTS A WEEK HENCE WHY THOUSANDS OF THEIR STAFF WHO AREN’T EVEN ILL ARE NOW OFF WORK!

I haven’t been on the site itself for a while, and I hadn’t read the daily updates for quite a while before that, but the daily update even entertaining this complete nonsense is making me feel ill.

UK Population 1974: 56.23 million
UK NHS Beds 1974: 400,000
UK Population 2020: 67.88 million
UK NHS Beds 2019/2020: 141,000
Source – NHS hospital bed numbers: past, present, future from kingsfund.org.uk.

And now for my regularly posted “the NHS is overwhelmed every single year at least twice a year (solely using the word ‘overwhelmed’)” image:

comment image

343697 ▶▶ Mayo, replying to John Galt, -4, #1227 of 2123 🔗

Hospital beds were reduced for good reason. Whether or not the cuts went too far is a matter for debate.

Modern surgical procedures and technology means that patients recover much quicker. The longer the hospital confinement the greater the chance of developing hospital-acquired infections. Staffing huge wards of patients diverted cash from improved treatments.

Lots of other reasons but this covers a few.

343713 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mayo, 9, #1228 of 2123 🔗

well they certainly need to re think the winter respiratory disease problem

343934 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mayo, 2, #1229 of 2123 🔗

Hospital beds were reduced for good reason.”

You are confused in your contrary eagerness to justify.

There were/are good reasons for a reduction in hospital beds – partly for the reasons that you mention, and a strategic shift in the location of care.

However, the reductions were not driven by this. There was no considered strategy. Cutting resource was the prime objective, pre-empting any compensating measures as profit was sucked out – primarily through PFI.

Comparisons with other systems exposes the prime driving force. It wasn’t medical.

One of the major motivations behind the current hysteria is as a political arse-covering exercise to pretend that something unforeseeable is happening.

It isn’t.

343660 danny, replying to danny, 28, #1230 of 2123 🔗

Have you noticed how anyone you speak to always has an anecdotal story about people they know who had the Rona. Always goes something like this “Well I know 17 people from work who had Corona. Bob from up the road had it really bad.”
A little polite digging reveals the fact that 17 idiots tested positive but were ill in no way at all. And as to Bob who had it really bad? Did he need hospital? Always the answer is the same. “Well, nearly.”
So no. Rewind a year and call it the flu and nobody in their right mind would suggest that two awful weeks in bed with a fever and aches and pains was great. They wouldn’t suggest that flu could be deadly for the very sick or very old or even in a few cases somebody else. But neither would they claim to have almost died.

343667 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to danny, 14, #1231 of 2123 🔗

Really this whole thing can just be characterised as a huge rebrand of normal viral illness.

343741 ▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Achilles, 7, #1232 of 2123 🔗

That’s been obvious since October and what is worrying is that it can now be used to justify permanent lockdowns and social distancing.

343680 ▶▶ rockoman, replying to danny, 7, #1233 of 2123 🔗

Yes – exactly.

You can come with whatever data you choose, and they come back at you with an ancedote – of their cousin’s hairdresser’s mother-in-law or what have you, and they think that their anecdote is as good as data covering a whole population.

343696 ▶▶▶ alw, replying to rockoman, 3, #1234 of 2123 🔗

Or the wheel tappers mate’s apprentice.

343742 ▶▶▶▶ JaneHarry, replying to alw, 3, #1235 of 2123 🔗

or not the pheasant plucker but the pheasant plucker’s son

343695 ▶▶ alw, replying to danny, 4, #1236 of 2123 🔗

State induced hysteria

343737 ▶▶ Cranmer, replying to danny, 7, #1237 of 2123 🔗

They also have anecdotal stories of friends/relatives working in the NHS who are ‘overwhelmed’ etc. Yet the NHS is always ‘overwhelmed’ and ‘close to collapse’ every winter.

343839 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Cranmer, 5, #1238 of 2123 🔗

Sick of seeing crying ICU staff. I always think get another fucking job involving puppies or flower arranging but if you’re so much of a cry baby what the fuck are you doing working in a place where ill and dying people are. They all think they are so great but they look like something from a Hammer House of Horrors to me.

343859 ▶▶▶ Dodderydude, replying to Cranmer, 5, #1239 of 2123 🔗

And, let’s face it, many in the NHS don’t know the meaning of ‘overwhelmed’. It means doing a full day’s work instead of sitting around chatting and stuffing your face with cream cakes [or making TikTok videos]. This may appear harsh but it is based on my own observations when my elderly mother was in hospital for eight weeks (would have been one week if she hadn’t contracted several successive nosocomial infections).

343814 ▶▶ liztr835, replying to danny, 1, #1240 of 2123 🔗

The most common made up stories where I live, are a young fit healthy runner/rugby player, cyclist etc, died at my local hospital with no pre-existing conditions after being ill only a few days, then there is the one about the young slim healthy mum who died never ill a day in her life, of course they dont know them personally, but a friend of a friends friends cousins uncles friend on facebook told them, so it must be true.

Most people I meet who had it, were asymptomatic, or were mildly ill for 3 days, I have met 2 people who were floored by it like the flu, but are now fine, just like I was when I had the flu a few years ago.

343835 ▶▶ Biker, replying to danny, 5, #1241 of 2123 🔗

I’ve started telling anyone who says shit like that i don’t give a fuck.I don’t give a fuck who’s died, who’s in hospital, none of it. All i care about is how i’m doing and since we’re living under a tyrannical government aided and abetted by the likes of whomever it is i’m talking to that they are a threat to everyone. They have no right to expect the wholesale shut down of everything, no right at all and if they think they have then i’m afraid we shall no longer be friends and you are now my enemy. They don’t like that but i also add when the shit comes down and they’re coming for me i’ll be coming for them in retaliation. If they want to keep me down they’re gonna need some fucking balls to do it. off course the state can and will just shoot us protestors to death but you know you do what you can.

343842 ▶▶ Dodderydude, replying to danny, #1242 of 2123 🔗

I just had an interesting conversation with a fellow customer in my local post office. There was a chap in front of us taking ages so we had a good chance to discuss what is going on. I wouldn’t say she was a lockdown sceptic but she was open-minded. She told me two things of particular interest. Someone she knows is doing an MSc in something medical and is classed as a frontline medic but she has said that she would not take the vaccine. And the sister of the woman I was chatting to is a nurse at Warrington General Hospital and has confirmed that they are very busy at the moment….but she is frustrated because it is largely people taking themselves to hospital with flu symptoms because they think they will die if they don’t seek emergency medical treatment. The nurse has said to her sister that these people should just stay home and treat it as a normal flu or cold.

343940 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Dodderydude, 2, #1243 of 2123 🔗

Certainly, there is a ramping up of hysterical/hypochondriac demand.

343921 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to danny, 2, #1244 of 2123 🔗

Similar with long covid. You can guess which ones in the office will claim to have been suffering from long-covid by remembering their constant sickness absences prior to last year. All the usual suspects. Almost always female too – so much for man-flu.

343693 DanClarke, replying to DanClarke, 21, #1245 of 2123 🔗

Down at the coast today, lots of people around, children’s playground open, coffee vans doing a roaring trade, hardly a mask in sight.

343706 ▶▶ Alan P, replying to DanClarke, 5, #1246 of 2123 🔗

Here in south west masks being worn outdoors, though hard to distinguish as many are just wearing scarves across face as normal in winter. I’ve tended to give them the benefit of the doubt. See what happens when temperatures rise later this week.

343722 ▶▶▶ DanClarke, replying to Alan P, 2, #1247 of 2123 🔗

The problem of breathing in their own carbon dioxide should be explained so at least they are informed.

343702 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 4, #1248 of 2123 🔗

Dr. Mercola Defamed by Digital ‘Anti-Hate’ Group

  • Mercola.com has been labeled a national security threat by British and American intelligence agencies that are collaborating to eliminate “anti-vaccine propaganda” from public discussion using sophisticated cyberwarfare tools
  • Imran Ahmed, chief executive of the Centre for Countering Digital Hate (CCDH), has made statements implying that people who question the safety and necessity of a COVID-19 vaccine might be prone to violent extremism — a defamatory statement that has no basis in reality
  • In a December 22, 2020, Twitter post, the CCDH states that “Anti-vaxxers have been meeting secretly to plan how to stop the COVID vaccine.” According to The Washington Post, the CCDH report quotes “leaked audio” from this supposedly “secret” meeting
  • However, audio was not “leaked,” as it came from presentations given at the Fifth International Public Conference on Vaccination, held online October 16 through 18, 2020 that was in no way “private” or held in secret. It was open to the public just like the previous four conferences on vaccination that NVIC has sponsored beginning in 1997
  • Censorship is anathema to a democratically run, free and open society. While there may not be a benefit to allowing misinformation to be disseminated, the risks of censoring are simply too grave to be justifiable

‘Anti-Hate’ Group Defames Vaccine Safety Advocates
Vaccine Concerns Are Growing Rapidly
‘Anti-Vaxx Playbook’
Zero Solid Counterarguments Made
CCDH Promotes Draconian Censorship
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2021/01/08/ccdh-dr-mercola-censorship.aspx

———-
Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.: Int’l. Message for Freedom and Hope https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpMWDCX1yMI&feature=youtu.be

343817 ▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to Victoria, #1249 of 2123 🔗

Why would anti-vaxxers bother organising, the authorities are doing their job for them, the more they try to censor & silence debate the more suspicious people become of the vaccine narrative.

I used to be fine with vaccines until the liberal left started calling people anti-vaxxers & trying to force it. Now I wonder what their hiding, fact is if get your vaccine your safe (their emphasis not mine) so why worry if others dont want it.

343827 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Victoria, 1, #1250 of 2123 🔗

Just change the word vaccine to vaseline it slips thru the censorship much easier

343705 danny, replying to danny, 3, #1251 of 2123 🔗

Really interesting read a year or so back called (I think) When Paris went dark.
basically looking at the moment almost overnight when the country switched from French run to occupied. What I’m getting at is the police. Some of them quit. Some embraced the nazi ideology. But others including a senior officer faced a dilemma. He had spent his life in his view protecting the city, arresting criminals and following the law. That law changed, but the very next morning there was still crime, life went on, and so the issue was whether he continued under new paymasters in an increasingly repellent regime, or whether he quits. I do feel that a great many of the police must hate what they have become. Yes, for some it is dream come true. But for many, all they ever wanted to do was help people, and let’s be honest, if a guy with a knife is around and we all run the other way, it is the police that run towards the danger.

343756 ▶▶ Smelly Melly, replying to danny, 8, #1252 of 2123 🔗

The police will probably turn away and turn a blind eye. The police have been politicised, just look at how our brave boys and girls in blue behaved towards the industrialised rape of girls in our cities. Now they have to be culturally aware before taking action, so in your scenario the police would only react depending if it was culturally aware and if it was an easy nick.

Don’t cover up for them.

343805 ▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to danny, #1253 of 2123 🔗

Nothing wrong with running away, as long as you can run faster than the person next to you, its a good strategy.

343708 alw, replying to alw, 3, #1254 of 2123 🔗

The true picture

343740 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to alw, 2, #1255 of 2123 🔗

He’s right. There’s also no proof of the 1 in 30 crap; it’s just yet another estimate based on yet another model.

343711 bebophaircut, 4, #1256 of 2123 🔗

Termites produce more CO2 than combined human activity. Funny!

https://www.iceagenow.info/termites-produce-co2-year-living-combined/

The public has been led to believe that increased carbon dioxide from human activities is causing a greenhouse effect that is heating the planet. But carbon dioxide comprises only 0.035% of our atmosphere and is a very weak greenhouse gas.

http://iloveco2.com/termites-emit-ten-times-more-co2-than/

343712 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 3, #1257 of 2123 🔗

Brand New Anti-Vac Whopper, Almost Laughable
Zero Solid Counterarguments Made

Reading through the CCDH’s report, I’m struck by the irony that none of the so-called “anti-vaxx arguments” are actually met by solid pro-vaccine counterarguments or data.

CCDH does not negate or even debate the accuracy of any of them. It just brushes them aside as misinformation and lies without providing any proof whatsoever. In fact, the report summarizes our concerns so well that I’d encourage everyone to read it.

At the end of the report, they do list a number of strategies that pro-vaccine advocates should use to counter anti-vaccine messages, but again, nowhere do they recommend leaning on published science.

Instead, it’s all about shaming people who question vaccines as “conspiracy theorists,” promoting harrowing stories of people who got sick with COVID-19 and “shouting about getting vaccinated.”

“Recipients of the vaccine should post about getting it — such a campaign could create authentic social proof and work against the anti-vaxxers’ aim of creating doubt around the safety of vaccines. ‘I’ve had the vaccine’ Twibbons and Instagram filters could also help achieve this,” CCDH writes.

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2021/01/08/ccdh-dr-mercola-censorship.aspx

343719 ▶▶ DanClarke, replying to Victoria, #1258 of 2123 🔗

If they have to sell it that much …….

343745 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Victoria, #1259 of 2123 🔗

Er, perhaps that’s because there aren’t any solid counter arguments? Hence why they feel the need to trot out the conspiracy theorist slur.

343983 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Victoria, #1260 of 2123 🔗

If there were counter arguments they wouldn’t be dicking about creating public profiles for the likes of marianna/claire spring and her little band of disinformationistas.

343716 DanClarke, replying to DanClarke, 8, #1261 of 2123 🔗

Makes one wonder where the elderly who have other serious conditions get their covid from. I remember when MRSA was raging in hospitals, now my 96 year old uncle who had some health problems at the weekend was told by his gp that he didnt want him to go into hospital as he was too vulnerable and would get a nurse to come out to him, he was safer at home.

344102 ▶▶ Marialta, replying to DanClarke, #1263 of 2123 🔗

To be fair it has been a policy for years to try to avoid unnecessary hospital admission for elderly frail patients. They do not do well in the hospital environment. Mobility declines and muscle wastage occurs very quickly, leads to difficulty being discharged. If if he can remain at home and receive community care it’s so much safer.

343718 bebophaircut, 4, #1264 of 2123 🔗
343725 DanClarke, replying to DanClarke, 34, #1265 of 2123 🔗

The thing is, I have no problems with vaccines, if people want to take them, it’s their choice, same with masks, the problem is with the coercion.

344170 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to DanClarke, 2, #1266 of 2123 🔗

the problem is with the coercion

I think that’s the case with most of us here, Dan.

343727 Ceriain, replying to Ceriain, 6, #1267 of 2123 🔗

The story of the angry Welsh nurse who caught Covid after being vaccinated has been rewitten.

It used to look like this: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:xS0k41fRO_YJ:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-wales-55579028+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

Headline was: Covid: Nurse ‘angry’ over positive test despite vaccination

It now looks like this: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55579028

Headline is now: ‘Care needed’ after getting Covid vaccine

343739 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Ceriain, 5, #1268 of 2123 🔗

Ministry of Truth at work.

343750 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Ceriain, 2, #1269 of 2123 🔗

“Cases” skyrocketing since vaccine rollout Dec 8th. “Cases” skyrocketing inline with increased tests. Is it too early to say vaccines won’t stop PCR pos?

343780 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Ceriain, 1, #1270 of 2123 🔗

No mention of her family “dropping like flies” either. Worst form of so called journalism.

343786 ▶▶ rockoman, replying to Ceriain, 2, #1271 of 2123 🔗

So, it’s not a vaccine then.

343728 Mark, replying to Mark, 23, #1272 of 2123 🔗

The country lockdowners and their apologists and sympathisers have created.

A country so scared that ordinary folk hide in their homes from a supposedly deadly disease.

A country so nasty and fearful that neighbours snitch on each other to the authorities, whether out of cowardice, busybodying self-aggrandisement, or falsely, with malice.

A country with authoritarian bullies in uniform for police, who take such nonsense seriously and believe (rightly or wrongly) that they are empowered to smash down doors to force their way into people’s homes to investigate for reported petty breaches of literally stupid rules.

Police break man’s front door in due to “suspicion of social gathering” – They were wrong! (Video)

Are you pleased, Alistair Hames? This is what you are supporting, and it’s no use saying you “don’t support this kind of stuff”. What the heck do you expect thugs empowered with totalitarian laws and boosted by hysterical fear propaganda to do? What did you think “lockdown” means, ffs!? Did you expect them not to enforce it?

343744 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Mark, 8, #1273 of 2123 🔗

What I’m still not clear on is, are the police now empowered to smash into people’s houses on suspicion of this kind of pettiest of petty offenses, or are they not?

I had assumed not, but some of them clearly think they are. Have they been manipulated to do that without lawful right to do so in order to create a few scare stories to frighten people? Are these just some overexcited idiots in uniform who are exceeding their powers because of stuff they’ve read in the newspapers or seen on the BBC? Or has the law actually been changed this dramatically?

343765 ▶▶▶ bucky99, replying to Mark, 1, #1274 of 2123 🔗

It hasn’t been changed in England, at least.

Not so sure about north of the border

343791 ▶▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to Mark, #1275 of 2123 🔗

The police could always enter a property if they have evidence an active crime is taking place, as far as i’m aware

343815 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Anti_socialist, 1, #1276 of 2123 🔗

My understanding was that was only for specific categories of crimes authorised by law, not for any petty breach of any regulation.

Eg [from 2018]:

In general the police do not have the right to enter a person’s house or other private premises without their permission.
However, they can enter without a warrant:

  • when in close pursuit of someone the police believe has committed, or attempted to commit, a serious crime, or
  • to sort out a disturbance, or
  • if they hear cries for help or of distress, or
  • to enforce an arrest warrant, or
  • if invited in freely by the occupant, or
  • under various statutes which give the police powers of entry (not necessarily by force) into a number of different kinds of premises

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/your-rights-refusing-entry-police-14248283

344010 ▶▶▶▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to Mark, #1277 of 2123 🔗

Hmm

when in close pursuit of someone the police believe has committed, or attempted to commit, a serious crime, or

Thanks for info, i knew it was something like that, however the sad fact is police abuse & misinterpret the law on a daily basis, eg terrorism act etc. so i don’t think any magistrate would uphold any compliant during a pandemic. Even if they did what’s likely to happen to any offender?

We’ve moved a long way from the principles of magna carter & common law. Police simply don’t have respect for the law anymore.

344190 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Anti_socialist, #1278 of 2123 🔗

Well these things have always been a little theoretical. If you are someone who lacks physical or popular or elite protection then the police know they can get away with a lot with you.

343730 TheClone, replying to TheClone, 4, #1279 of 2123 🔗

What might be the exit strategy out of this mess? Any ideas, please?

343751 ▶▶ Julian, replying to TheClone, 5, #1280 of 2123 🔗

I wish I knew so I could plan accordingly

At best, mixed messages from govt and SAGE – govt slightly more hopeful than SAGE

The difference between the best (some kind of normal life by Easter) and worst (decades of this madness) case scenarios is vast but either seem equally plausible, or anything in between

Keep fighting and look after yourself

343783 ▶▶ rockoman, replying to TheClone, 6, #1281 of 2123 🔗

Economic collapse plunging vast numbers of people into poverty and desperation will probably do the trick.

343799 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to TheClone, 1, #1282 of 2123 🔗

The Cayman Islands?

343870 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to TheClone, #1283 of 2123 🔗

They can declare it over when we are past the very normal winter pressure on the NHS. ie a few weeks.

But they could have declared it over last May and spent 6 moths preparing for what one would expect to be an under pressure winter NHS

344078 ▶▶ Old Bill, replying to TheClone, #1284 of 2123 🔗

Giant asteroid in the Yucatan penninsula?

343733 Julian, replying to Julian, 9, #1285 of 2123 🔗

Worth a look:

https://harteam.org/

HART is a group of highly qualified UK doctors, scientists, economists and psychologists who use a strong and broad multidisciplinary evidence base to challenge the Government’s policies on tackling COVID-19.
We aim to provide a credible second opinion to politicians and the wider public.
We represent a broad range of disciplines with a wide range of individual evidence-based expert views.
Over time, as new evidence becomes available, our positions may adapt and change. We believe this is how science should work.
If you wish to be considered for Associate Membership of HART please complete our form attaching a copy of your CV.
Applications are open to all scientists , physicians , clinical psychologists , professional economists & lawyers and all other PhDs will be considered.
You can also be a general supporter if you are a member of the public for a £2 one off fee.”

Not much detail on the website yet but you can donate (sadly suggests there’s no billionaire behind them) and interestingly when you get a Paypal receipt it’s from something called “Yeadon campaign”.

https://twitter.com/harteam_org

343996 ▶▶ SimonCook, replying to Julian, #1286 of 2123 🔗

Good evening Julian,

I think that they are linked to PCR Claims in some way (a lot of overlap) and maybe even PANDA the South African based group.

Definitely one to watch!

Best regards

Simon

343734 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 10, #1287 of 2123 🔗

Khan demands muzzles outside https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9126255/Mayor-Sadiq-Khan-declares-major-incident-London.html -how long before Bojo “with great regret” gives way?

343738 ▶▶ l835, replying to arfurmo, 12, #1288 of 2123 🔗

He’s got to say no first, so he can do his usual u turn!

343781 ▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to arfurmo, 1, #1289 of 2123 🔗

But no ones allowed outside.

343862 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Anti_socialist, 1, #1290 of 2123 🔗

Shhs -he’ll want them indoors next

343735 l835, 5, #1291 of 2123 🔗

Shit, the patronising and generally awful dr Sarah Jarvis is in talk radio in a bit. Retune now!

343748 alw, 20, #1292 of 2123 🔗

A game for the weekend

343759 Ricky1, replying to Ricky1, 23, #1293 of 2123 🔗

If Boris and Co dont have some kind of ulterior motive they’ve really dug themselves into a corner because they’ve set a precedent that we need to shut down the country every time the NHS is under pressure which is unfortunately every winter. By turning the NHS into a religion to get people to comply they’ve made it so sacred that the whole country has to stop working every winter. This was the predictable consequence so I find it hard to believe it was unintentional.

343771 ▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to Ricky1, 6, #1294 of 2123 🔗

Sadly the MSM wont hold them to account over it.

If government were held to account their failure to provide appropriate health capacity creating a national scandal & would lead to resignations & new governance, instead we pay for their maladministration with our own house arrest.

They’ve had 10 months to fix this instead they’ve reduced capacity with mitigation measures.

343773 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to Ricky1, 6, #1295 of 2123 🔗

Perhaps they don’t care, because it’s not actually about a virus and the well being of our people. Their own survival and comfort is far more important to them.

344097 ▶▶▶ Elisabeth, replying to Banjones, 1, #1296 of 2123 🔗

Depending on how much the globalist filth paid them

343776 ▶▶ rockoman, replying to Ricky1, 1, #1297 of 2123 🔗

Indeed.

What’s the cost of lockown versus the cost of increasing the number of NHS beds by say – 25% in order to deal with occasionally greater pressure.

343801 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to rockoman, 3, #1298 of 2123 🔗

The NHS occasionally being very busy was not a big problem for society, provided we could avoid giving in to panic.

Now that it is clear we are no longer a country with sufficient maturity or moral fortitude to do that, it makes sense to waste more money every year providing a comfort buffer in that way..

343927 ▶▶▶ jonathan Palmer, replying to rockoman, 2, #1299 of 2123 🔗

NHS roughly £130billion a year.
Last time I looked the government had spent 3 times that already

343794 ▶▶ Dave Angel Eco Warrier, replying to Ricky1, 5, #1300 of 2123 🔗

Correct. The NHS and any SAGE type body will call for lockdowns or restrictions EVERY winter now. The die has been cast.

343798 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Dave Angel Eco Warrier, 2, #1301 of 2123 🔗

Ferguson clearly already thinks he has won and that is now the new normal:

“Nowadays, it is orthodoxy that lockdown was right. In the next pandemic, we won’t hesitate to use it.”

https://anti-empire.com/neil-ferguson-china-changed-what-was-possible/

343811 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Mark, 5, #1302 of 2123 🔗

I think he is going to end up being severely disabused of that notion. It is a measure of his arrogance that he thinks this battle is over, it isn’t even close.

343834 ▶▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Will, 3, #1303 of 2123 🔗

Apart from anything else, a few scientists have questioned whether or not lockdown might have caused the virus to mutate to become more contagious.

343890 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Will, 2, #1304 of 2123 🔗

We know that most SAG people are not kosher scientists. If we want to know more, we have to look further. Thank goodness for people like Dr Mike Y and the Great Barrington, even though the PTB are trying to rubbish it.

Remember: “You know you’re over the target when you start catching flak”

343832 ▶▶ Dorian_Hawkmoon, replying to Ricky1, 2, #1305 of 2123 🔗

Could we not spend all the money pissed away on increasing NHS capacity to cope with Winter. Or am I missing something? Someone told be they are booked for elective orthopaedic surgery next week. How does that square with 10 days to save the NHS or whatever? How bout limiting elective surgery for a month around Christmas routinely? Flexing staff on a planned basis. Where’s the planning except lurching from crisis to crisis, year after year, Tory and Labour. All predictable.

343930 ▶▶▶ jonathan Palmer, replying to Dorian_Hawkmoon, #1306 of 2123 🔗

If it was about a virus that is what a sensible government would do.

344070 ▶▶ Marialta, replying to Ricky1, 1, #1307 of 2123 🔗

What gets me is that whereas these modellers continually predict the spread of the virus why could they not have predicted the effect on the NHS of the increasing testing,tracking and making people self isolate? I hear that one critical care nurse is now having to look after 3 patients instead of one. This is bad news for anyone including us if we get admitted.

343761 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 11, #1308 of 2123 🔗

This is from UK based Evidence based investigation just published.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/348230894_Ivermectin_reduces_the_risk_of_death_from_COVID-19_-a_rapid_review_and_meta-analysis_in_support_of_the_recommendation_of_the_Front_Line_COVID-19_Critical_Care_Alliance

“This review and meta-analysis confirms that ivermectin substantially reduces the risk of a
person dying from COVID-19 by probably somewhere in the region of 65% to 92%. The only uncertainty in the evidence relates to the precise extent of the reduction, not in the
effectiveness of ivermectin itself. Similarly, when ivermectin is used as prophylaxis among
health care workers and contacts, it is clear that ivermectin substantially reduces COVID-19 infections, probably somewhere in the region of 88% (82% to 92%).”

343824 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to swedenborg, #1309 of 2123 🔗

I’m struggling to say “better late than never”, but can’t help think how different it would have been if this had been completed in May.

343869 ▶▶▶ ituex, replying to PoshPanic, 1, #1310 of 2123 🔗

There was a study in Australia in the spring saying exactly this. Ivermectin is cheap, safe, off patent and easily available. Should have been used from months ago instead of waiting for vaccine.

343880 ▶▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to ituex, 5, #1311 of 2123 🔗

Interesting the expression “blood on the hands” used for LD sceptics.Perhaps appropriate for others incl Fauci,UK establishment which from the beginning dismissed all cheap drugs on the market with suspected effect on C-19. Instead of a approach,vaccine AND possible cheap drugs available AND possible new experimental drugs. They chose mainly vaccine route and actively stopped the second route.Blood on their hands

343928 ▶▶▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1312 of 2123 🔗

Instead of trying to prove their critics wrong ( because they can’t ), they turn to baseless accusations.

343945 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to PoshPanic, #1313 of 2123 🔗

It’s to divide society into a ‘good’ group and a ‘bad’ group. When a member of the ‘bad’ group gets told off for not wearing a mask, members of the ‘good’ group feel justified in standing around hissing their disapproval. When HMG finally gets competent enough to march the ‘bad’ group off to camps, the ‘good’ group will spit on us as we go by.

343970 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1314 of 2123 🔗

Exactly right. Dr. Zelenko, of the Zelenko protocol, calls the American Medical Association the American Murder Association for blocking the use of HCQ and Ivermectin and, therefore, killing tens of thousands of people who could have been saved. These vultures are the psychopaths with blood on their hands, not us.

344326 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to swedenborg, #1315 of 2123 🔗

No excuse for not getting all those nurses back to work then!

343768 JamesM, replying to JamesM, 16, #1316 of 2123 🔗

Like others who posted earlier today, I’m also pleased to report that not a single person in our street turned out to clap for the NHS last night. This is very different from what happened in the spring, and I take it to be a sign that people at large are fed with the restrictions and the diminution in the quality of life. I expect the MSM will now try even harder to turn the UK into North Korea.

343793 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to JamesM, 3, #1317 of 2123 🔗

Any Clapper would be a Collaborator. Tell them that and that they actively condone people dying due to not getting medical care from the Covid/Vaccine only NHS

344069 ▶▶ Old Bill, replying to JamesM, 2, #1318 of 2123 🔗

Same in my street. Then again in the early hours of the morning I broke into their houses and stole all their spoons.

343769 Banjones, replying to Banjones, 11, #1319 of 2123 🔗

I’ve just read that Grant Shapps has said the vaccines won’t be much use because of mutation of the virus.

Is this the same Grant Shapps that didn’t have much success in the Real World and has no medical or scientific qualifications whatsoever (just an HND in business) and is now Transport Secretary? Oh, THAT Mr Shapps!

If this were someone like Dr Mike Yeadon (not many like him though) or Professor Gupta saying it, then perhaps we could listen with concern and interest. As it is we’ve got Hancock (again no scientific qualification or experience). And Johnson with his Classics degree. And then there’s the vaccine czar who’s got fingers in the Yougov pie and we’re told that most people (according to Yougov surveys) are FOR this lockdown and FOR this vaccine and FOR all the other punishments. Oh, of course, between them they are the fount of all knowledge!

How ever could we doubt it?

343775 ▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to Banjones, 8, #1320 of 2123 🔗

How are they “vaccines” ? They don’t prevent infection !

344076 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Anti_socialist, 1, #1321 of 2123 🔗

How is it a pandemic without being a pandemic or any other number of word meanings changed. Vaccines should innoculate shouldn’t they. MHRA has okayed these tube of medical treatment based on manufacturer data that the chemicals and materials they inject causes a reduction of symptoms.

Look it up if you’re a lurker reading this. It’s a snake oil scam.

343785 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Banjones, 4, #1322 of 2123 🔗

Why is a minister of transport even discussing this – well off his radar surely!

344323 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ozzie, #1323 of 2123 🔗

Everylone else has gone home for the weekend?

343807 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Banjones, 4, #1324 of 2123 🔗

If he has really said that then unless he has gone off narrative we know where we stand – there’s no end to this

343770 Dave Angel Eco Warrier, replying to Dave Angel Eco Warrier, 13, #1325 of 2123 🔗

Is anyone questioning why the U.K.’s figures are way out of kilter with the rest of Europe? There has to be something very fishy going on.

343774 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress 2021, replying to Dave Angel Eco Warrier, 11, #1326 of 2123 🔗

There has been huge amounts of testing, and quite a lot of backfill again today in the deaths figure.

343797 ▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Tyneside Tigress 2021, 2, #1327 of 2123 🔗

The problem with that, is that when the numbers are rising like they are, the backfill will be less than the numbers unreported yet. Only when the numbers (in total) start to decline, do the backfill numbers usually start to exceed the numbers unreported.

343831 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Tyneside Tigress 2021, 1, #1328 of 2123 🔗

I know keep a record of “cases” reported each day. Today they added another 8 who took their test on the 22nd December! (That’s the date I started recording).

Which sideboard did these test results fall behind and how did they find them?

343803 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Dave Angel Eco Warrier, #1329 of 2123 🔗

What figures?

343871 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to Dave Angel Eco Warrier, 3, #1330 of 2123 🔗

Not just Europe. We are being represented as The Plague Pit of the World. I’ve just heard from my Canadian friend, who expresses dismay and concern and sympathy with our desperate plight! (I’ve tried to put her right and will continue to drip feed). They think they’re desperate too, with only a few deaths or hospital admissions in their prairie towns. They’ve been primed with the woke agenda though, so I’m not surprised. Only surprised and dismayed by our well-educated and thoughtful friends who’ve actually fallen for their own political agenda.

343964 ▶▶ jos, replying to Dave Angel Eco Warrier, 5, #1331 of 2123 🔗

My very elderly mother has just had a second stroke and, without giving her a covid test, they put covid positive on her notes ‘just in case’ the excuse being that any visiting nurse will have to wear full PPE – so that’s how they’re doing it – she has no symptoms of it at all

344318 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to jos, 1, #1332 of 2123 🔗

That’s disgraceful!

343800 ▶▶ Wolver, replying to rockoman, 8, #1334 of 2123 🔗

Time to start counting “deaths within 28 days of a covid vaccine”

344101 ▶▶▶ Elisabeth, replying to Wolver, 1, #1335 of 2123 🔗

All of a sudden all those “underlying health conditions” will be hauled out. Old age too!

343778 Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, 14, #1336 of 2123 🔗

Not sure if this has already been posted, via Simon Dolan’s Twitter:

There have been 2 reports of snowballs being thrown last night between 11 & 11:30pm. This is obviously not a justifiable reason to be out of your house, this behaviour is likely to result in a £200 Fixed Penalty Notice for breaking the lockdown rules.

Safe Neighbourhood Team for Broseley and Wenlock – therefore not the police, but some jumped up local that thinks this makes them sound important!

343819 ▶▶ mj, replying to Ozzie, 3, #1337 of 2123 🔗

surely throwing snowballs is exercise

343833 ▶▶▶ Basileus, replying to mj, 4, #1338 of 2123 🔗

I understand there is a range limit in the new regulations, according to a reliable police spokesman.

343840 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Ozzie, 10, #1339 of 2123 🔗

The longer this goes on, the more people reveal their ugly authoritarian side. Sometimes I’m more frightened by what’s happening to civil society than the laws per se.

343861 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to mattghg, 1, #1340 of 2123 🔗

Meanwhile, in Sweden…

344105 ▶▶ Elisabeth, replying to Ozzie, 1, #1341 of 2123 🔗

Sooo… everyone find the disgusting snitches and douse them with snowballs. Better yet, head first into the snow with them!

344311 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ozzie, #1342 of 2123 🔗

Apart from the valid exercise aspect, surely people throwing snowballs keep more than 2m apart?

343779 Chris Hume, replying to Chris Hume, #1343 of 2123 🔗

What is going on with these numbers? They seem to be going off the chart. I wasn’t surprised before the vote as they always manipulate those at that time in some way, but this just seems astonishing. It cant be just ‘delayed reporting’ as that evens itself out. Is this actually real? It has to be at least in part, they can misattribute deaths, but they cant manipulate actual total deaths. What are those numbers like compared to normal, does anybody know?

343802 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Chris Hume, #1344 of 2123 🔗

What numbers?

343806 ▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Julian, #1345 of 2123 🔗

1,400 deaths reported today, second highest ever.

343812 ▶▶▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Chris Hume, 9, #1346 of 2123 🔗

Reported over December – when lots of people were using up Holiday.

The dates of death go back to December 15th – and all of this is updated instantly on the government’s website on their “by date of death” graph.

The actual report should be “bureaucrats get slower at getting their reports in”

343924 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Lucan Grey, 1, #1347 of 2123 🔗

Working from home… making tea… making toast… dog on lap… take dog for walk…

343813 ▶▶▶▶ Dodderydude, replying to Chris Hume, 3, #1348 of 2123 🔗

This graph was posted BTL on here a couple of days ago. It shows how what is being reported is a distortion of the truth. Unless there has literally been a dramatic change in the past couple of days, the highest daily tally to date in December is roughly 600 deaths in one day.

https://twitter.com/UKCovid19Stats/status/1346896341469900802

343828 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Chris Hume, 6, #1349 of 2123 🔗

So the average deaths per day is now all Covid?

343838 ▶▶▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to mhcp, 2, #1350 of 2123 🔗

At least we’ve seen the cure of all other causes!

343935 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Chris Hume, 2, #1351 of 2123 🔗

You seem to be determined to be misled by government statistics. The only figure that really counts will be the total death count for the year as a whole, as this will be difficult to fake, though I wouldn’t put it past them to try.

344160 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Chris Hume, #1352 of 2123 🔗

Daily reported deaths are neither here nor there. Just knicker-wetting material.

343804 ▶▶ Jo Starlin, replying to Chris Hume, #1353 of 2123 🔗

Looking at the ONS monthly death figures, the latest full month’s figures are for November. Northern Ireland and Scotland totals are kept separately, but adding them up I came up with 51,532 total UK deaths in November 2019 and 57,873 for the same month in 2020. Be at least a couple of weeks before the December stats are out.

343816 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Chris Hume, 10, #1354 of 2123 🔗

These number very much disagree with Zoe numbers and Zoe are what I would regard as the most accurate.

New daily infections in society peaked yesterday – total infectious will peak in 5-10 days

I expect what you have is lots of covid going round the hospitals and lots of false positives. especially when you test dying patients over and over again. You might wave a swab in a hospital and get a positive result.

Evidence from last few weeks is that these are definitely dying ‘with’ covid and not ‘of’ because overall all cause mortality is within a normal winter range.

343822 ▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to steve_w, 2, #1355 of 2123 🔗

That is exactly why we need to see the ‘total deaths’ number and see how that compares to what we would normally see at this time of year. With Christmas distortions, lags, seasonality etc. Only then can we get a proper idea of what is actually going on.

343851 ▶▶▶▶ Jo Starlin, replying to Chris Hume, #1356 of 2123 🔗

Agreed. The only month which supported these sorts of figures being down to people dying “of” Covid was last April. There has been nothing hugely anomalous about monthly death totals since, though obviously this might change.

344305 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jo Starlin, #1357 of 2123 🔗

A lot of people died last April because they were denied medical treatment, no matter what they were suffering from.

343867 ▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Chris Hume, 1, #1358 of 2123 🔗

yes. of course an alternative explanation is that the new mutant strain is much more infectious (higher PCR testing, more in hospital ‘with’ covid, more deaths ‘with’ covid) but less dangerous (Zoe shows symptomatic cases so would be lower)

so a very infectious new strain that was harmless would cause all numbers related to PCR testing to go through the roof but not the ZOE data which is what we have seen

343952 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Chris Hume, 2, #1359 of 2123 🔗

The total death number will come and is hard to fake, but don’t put it past them to try. Those running the Covid event are desperate to keep up the hysteria until we are all vaccinated, after which nothing much will matter.

344165 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to steve_w, #1360 of 2123 🔗

all cause mortality is within a normal winter range.”

That’s the key, unassailable fact. Everything else is noise.

343858 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Chris Hume, 3, #1361 of 2123 🔗

How are 68000 testing positive? They can’t all be going to lock ins, raves etc.

343868 ▶▶▶ Jo Starlin, replying to arfurmo, 1, #1362 of 2123 🔗

Viruses gonna virus.

344340 ▶▶▶ The Mask Exempt Covid Marshall, replying to arfurmo, #1363 of 2123 🔗

Moreover, who are the prats getting tested? How dim do they have to be to not realise this is what the government wants…?

343789 JohnWarwick, 2, #1364 of 2123 🔗

“Into the valley of death rode the 600”
Except that reference was in relation to the Light Brigade at the battle of Balaclava and the picture is of the Scots Greys part of the Heavy Brigade at Waterloo!

343808 stoptheworld, replying to stoptheworld, 26, #1365 of 2123 🔗

Table I have made up of UK all-cause death rates from 1950 to 2020. The figures for 2020 are now all up to date for the full year using official government data from England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

343820 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to stoptheworld, 8, #1366 of 2123 🔗

Great data stoptheworld. Thanks.

343837 ▶▶ Andrew K, replying to stoptheworld, 2, #1367 of 2123 🔗

Thanks for this. What happened after 2003 when death numbers visibly dropped? Is that when they introduced flu vaccines?

343848 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Andrew K, 4, #1368 of 2123 🔗

Possibly connected

Or general improved health

The fluctuations are not huge

We’ve gone back to 2003 levels, some of which is probably due to lockdowns

343876 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Julian, 1, #1369 of 2123 🔗

It has all happened with lockdowns, face nappies etc. Let’s see he the numbers in the UK compare to Sweden…

343892 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jo Starlin, replying to Will, 1, #1370 of 2123 🔗

Total deaths in Sweden were 91,773 up to December 18th, up on last year but not extraordinary and still below 2018. They’ll climb to about 95,000 in the final reckoning. I believe Ferguson’s model suggested 60,000 extra deaths in Sweden? There’ll end up being about 3,000.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/525353/sweden-number-of-deaths/

344154 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Will, #1371 of 2123 🔗

Sweden’s long-term mortality closely echoes that of the UK.

344151 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Andrew K, 1, #1372 of 2123 🔗

Interesting question. But when you map it graphically, there is a notably cyclic pattern (a sine wave) – which becomes more pronounced if you look at the pattern of aggregated two-year data, which takes into account the interaction between years, as in the ‘dry tinder’ phenomenon.

I would not be surprised to see a return to higher mortality – a continuation of the trend-line.

… and all the useless NPIs will have no relevance at all in affecting any trend.

343856 ▶▶ peyrole, replying to stoptheworld, 5, #1373 of 2123 🔗

As well a growth in population, the ageing of the population also has to be adjusted for. I think with this there is hardly any difference to long term trend.

343954 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to stoptheworld, 2, #1374 of 2123 🔗

Excellent!! Thanks for this. I’ve shamelessly stolen it for future use! Utterly shamelessly.

343969 ▶▶▶ stoptheworld, replying to Nick Rose, 5, #1375 of 2123 🔗

No Problem Nick, I did a quick graph too if that’s of any use

344049 ▶▶▶▶ John Galt, replying to stoptheworld, 1, #1376 of 2123 🔗

This is really great. The graph in particular is striking in how mundane it makes this year look.

344030 ▶▶ Old Bill, replying to stoptheworld, 3, #1377 of 2123 🔗

AT LAST! Somebody who understands how to present data.

Some of the crap data presentations we have had to endure on this site have been so unbearable that even I, as an absolute fanatic, couldn’t bring myself to read.

Your table should not only be on the front page of tomorrow’s LDS, it should be on the front page of the Gruniad and the BBC news as well, though I have no doubt it will not appear in any of those places.

I would award you a gold star, but in a few weeks time you will probably have to wear it on your arm every time you go out, so I will refrain.

Congratulation anyway.

344103 ▶▶ tony rattray, replying to stoptheworld, #1378 of 2123 🔗

I will donate £1 to the archewell foundation (lovely) for any of you who can spot the once in a life time health crisis and the difference with sweden who got it all wrong! But don’t tell the bbc, itv, channel 4, uk governments, nhs and the majority of cretins who now inhabit this island, as it will ruin the “shitshow” of 2020. Also don’t worry, it’s just about your freedom and liberty and what the next decade is going to be like. Calm down!

344106 ▶▶ RickH, replying to stoptheworld, #1379 of 2123 🔗

Yes – when you do this, you immediately blow the idea that 2020 was ‘unprecedented’ out of the water.

… how many journalists have highlighted these figures? A sad commentary.

We have just had a run of atypically low mortality.

343818 ▶▶ TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, replying to Tyneside Tigress 2021, 4, #1381 of 2123 🔗

Probably not unfortunately, it’s a rule for them & a different rule for us.
Wankers.

343821 ▶▶ alw, replying to Tyneside Tigress 2021, 4, #1382 of 2123 🔗

More Rogan Tosh from the DM.

344033 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to alw, 2, #1383 of 2123 🔗

Jonathan van naan

344050 ▶▶▶▶ Annie, replying to stefarm, #1384 of 2123 🔗

He us very ill-bread.

343823 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Tyneside Tigress 2021, 1, #1385 of 2123 🔗

Third of a litre of Diet Coke, very healthy!

343916 ▶▶ jonathan Palmer, replying to Tyneside Tigress 2021, 1, #1386 of 2123 🔗

Nothing story.It was from before lockdown.I would love for that sanctimonious prick to be caught breaking rules and god forbid anything should happen to his mum after she has the ‘vaccine’

343825 Andrew K, #1387 of 2123 🔗

Population of the UK – Ignore. Delele

343830 Ceriain, replying to Ceriain, 8, #1388 of 2123 🔗

Today’s 1325 reported deaths* (i.e. the propaganda figure the MSM will use).

Here’s when the deaths* actually occured. These are the deaths* by date of death* figures.

First column is date; second column is what was on the Gov site yesterday; third column is what was on the Gov site today; fourth column is what was added today. Hope that makes sense.

There are a few ‘minor’ adjustments on earlier days, but these are the main changes.

*As always, deaths are those within 28 days of a postive PCR test; there is no guarantee any of these people died OF Covid.

343908 ▶▶ Jonny S., replying to Ceriain, 1, #1389 of 2123 🔗

Cheers. Been trying to explain this to the missus. This’ll help.

344138 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Jonny S., 2, #1390 of 2123 🔗

Show her the 2 graphs from here, J; shows the difference between the reported figure and day of death* figure.

*Not necessarily from Covid; just died within 28 days of a postive PCR test.

344166 ▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Ceriain, 1, #1391 of 2123 🔗
343843 Ceriain, replying to Ceriain, 9, #1392 of 2123 🔗

Site’s slowed to a crawl for me; everything else loading as fast as normal.

Anyone else?

343844 ▶▶ Jo Starlin, replying to Ceriain, 2, #1393 of 2123 🔗

Slow on my phone.

343852 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Jo Starlin, 1, #1394 of 2123 🔗

Thanks, Jo; not just me then.

343845 ▶▶ First Minister of Bubbledom, replying to Ceriain, 6, #1395 of 2123 🔗

Me too, keep getting a 502 bad gateway notice loading

343849 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to First Minister of Bubbledom, 1, #1396 of 2123 🔗

Thanks, not just me then.

343853 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to First Minister of Bubbledom, #1397 of 2123 🔗

Same here.

343857 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to First Minister of Bubbledom, #1398 of 2123 🔗

Snap.

343914 ▶▶▶ Alice, replying to First Minister of Bubbledom, #1399 of 2123 🔗

Yes, I got that too, but I tried again, and it’s fine.

343854 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to Ceriain, 1, #1400 of 2123 🔗

Yes.

343855 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to Ceriain, 2, #1401 of 2123 🔗

Does seem sluggish, had gateway problem this morning.

343899 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Ceriain, 8, #1402 of 2123 🔗

It would indeed be very surprising, if Toby’s excellent site was not being interfered by traitors acting on behalf of Big Pharma and mega rich psychopaths, pretending to be philanthropists.

343911 ▶▶▶ awildgoose, replying to Rowan, 5, #1403 of 2123 🔗

77B, GCHQ, NSA, CIA, etc. have plenty of tricks available besides mere paid trolls.

343860 Fingerache Philip, 15, #1404 of 2123 🔗

Notice how the emotional blackmail is being ramped up?
BLOOD ON YOUR HANDS, ETC.

343863 ElizaP, 7, #1405 of 2123 🔗

Whew! Mad it into the comments section some hours late. I clicked on a link for an article and got a very odd page and not into it/unavailable. Saw a different link further on down re that article and clicked that too and nothing. At which my Internet connection went off and I couldnt get a single thing on the Internet. Spent hours battling to even get through to my provider and then battling again and I wonder if that link mucked up my router (which provider traced it back to – as having gone haywire). Back to normal at last – and wondering re the link….Shades of doomey music and wondering if someone mucked up this website and it mucked up my computer……

343865 number 6, replying to number 6, 15, #1406 of 2123 🔗

A very sad day, R.I.P to Lockdown Sceptics.

Toby’s last paragraph in todays “Last Supper Editorial” is:-

One of the most unpleasant aspects of this crisis is that it has brought out an ugly, authoritarian streak in so many people, particularly those in positions of authority. Before March of last year, I believed that totalitarianism could never take root in British soil because we are such a Rabelaisian, freedom-loving people, fiercely proud of our independence. Now, I’m not so sure.

This took me back some 35 Years, to a conversation I had with a very close Friend, now deceased. He was a keen follower of War drama and politics, not surprising as he was a refuge from WW2 Poland having entered the UK around 1944/5 aged 20. In his native Poland he had experience not only of the Nazi occupation, but also the impact of Stalin’s Soviet Union. He became a UK citizen and did National Service before qualifying as a Joiner and Cabinet maker. In spite of his traumatic war time experience in his home country of Poland he had no animosity to the German or Russian ‘foot’ soldiers, in fact I think the conversation I now remember was whilst we were ‘Analysing’ the German TV serial “Das Boot”. The conversation drifted to Democracy and Freedom when he sadly stated that his experience in late 1940’s Britain – (actually Wales) – was that there were plenty of likely candidates amongst us who would have been glad to be collaborators and join the SS if Hitler had invaded. So yes Toby’s last few words ring true, sadly.

343885 ▶▶ Julian, replying to number 6, 6, #1407 of 2123 🔗

RIP? We’re not dead yet!

343918 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to number 6, 3, #1408 of 2123 🔗

I’m not dead, and I’m not going on the cart!

344046 ▶▶ Annie, replying to number 6, 1, #1409 of 2123 🔗

The ultrazombies I have met would have been denouncing Jews and cheering as they were loaded on to trains bound for Auschwitz.

344082 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to number 6, 2, #1410 of 2123 🔗

Well we did have Moseley’s ‘Brownshirts”(?) goose stepping around in the 1930s. (Not sure whether both those ‘r’s are appropriate.)

343866 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #1411 of 2123 🔗

This is not scaremongering and this data from 1 st Jan from CDC.Unclear how many vaccinations maybe 4 millions.

This is clearly more dangerous than flu vaccine. But there are defined risk groups for severe C-19 outcome which this risk seems worth taking on an individual basis. For others outside the risk groups will depend on your attitude. If you believe in masks and 7% died in the UK of C-19 and you are a healthy 30 year, you have your own informed choice. Very difficult to see this as a mandatory vaccine, they haven’t even started the second dose.

 https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1347582146819596290

11 deaths following Covid-19 vaccine administration have now been reported to th e CDC as well as 38 life threatening responses, five cases of permanent disability, and more than 1,000 ER visits or hospitalizations.

343873 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to swedenborg, 7, #1412 of 2123 🔗

The vaccine may well be a bigger risk than coronavirus for all of us, as nobody has a clue about the medium or long term risks. Why anyone, in any risk group, would take this shot in dark is beyond stupidity.

343879 ▶▶▶ Janette, replying to Rowan, 4, #1413 of 2123 🔗

Agreed

343872 captainbeefheart, replying to captainbeefheart, 26, #1414 of 2123 🔗

I’ve been exercising the right that was generously granted to us by the government to go out and meet one other person for as long as we like in an outdoor public space.

The local playing park is one of the few places in town with a bench, so I usually meet a friend there. Beer is usually purchased from the nearby Co-op. I never thought at the age of 42 I’d be reduced to being a naughty teenager again.

Sometimes, other people may be passing (walking dogs etc) and stay for a chat. Criminal I know, but it has happened.

Over the past week or so, we’ve been getting more harassment from our local police force. Even a council car stops in the car park next to the park and sits spying on us.

One night last week, we had two police visits. “We get a lot of reports of anti-social behaviour around here, have you seen any kids hanging around?” that sort of thing. Sometimes they just park there to “remind us we should be at home” probably.

We stand our ground and often get remarks like “it is very cold out here” etc.

Next time I get that remark, I might tell the officer that if they are concerned about people being cold, then they might want to go round to the house I saw the other day on the high street that had all their windows open. I won’t say anything too sarcastic because once you rattle these people, they will make it their mission to screw your life up.

So far, they’ve behaved themselves. They are just becoming more intimidating. Maybe I should start filming them…

343884 ▶▶ bucky99, replying to captainbeefheart, 3, #1415 of 2123 🔗

Yep, never thought it’d come to walking around the park with a can & a hip flask… and yet here we are!

343901 ▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to bucky99, 5, #1416 of 2123 🔗

Those chemical hand warmer things are a godsend…

343874 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 10, #1417 of 2123 🔗

peak deaths is 5th jan in normal years. I bet its the same this year

343931 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to steve_w, 1, #1418 of 2123 🔗

Well, the funeral place opposite me was out at 2am, 10am, 15.30.
Daytime ones could of course be bodies which were stored at local hospital, which had quite a large number of deaths since xmas, after our local area was very low numbers until mid december.

343875 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 15, #1419 of 2123 🔗

So this “Major Incident” declared in London. Is that like the “Major Incident” when people went to Bournemouth Beach? Political posturing, nothing more.

343886 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Achilles, 6, #1420 of 2123 🔗

There was a major incident in Essex before Christmas too. I speculated it was due to lack of sunbeds.

343900 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Achilles, 7, #1421 of 2123 🔗

There is an anti-lockdown protest in London tomorrow. Might have something to do with it.

343902 ▶▶ jonathan Palmer, replying to Achilles, 5, #1422 of 2123 🔗

More posturing from the Mayor.Also his call for face coverings in public spaces.
Why doesn’t he just concentrate on stopping violent knife crime and Transport for London

343913 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Achilles, 3, #1423 of 2123 🔗

The only major incident was people shitting in the park and at the side of the road in some cases. Apart from that it was great

343878 Londo Mollari, replying to Londo Mollari, 15, #1424 of 2123 🔗
  1. Police are treated as key workers for school purposes, so no child minding problems.
  2. But it seems that police absence is on the rise.
  3. And yet PCR tests not carried out on police ? somebody, please confirm.

If these three statements are true then this does imply -as others have observed – that maybe police morale is falling. Despite the thuggish elements, many signed up for nobler reasons.

343891 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to Londo Mollari, 6, #1425 of 2123 🔗

After working together in close proximity for ten months, they know there’s nothing in it.

343909 ▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Bugle, 1, #1426 of 2123 🔗

But are they being made to undergo tests?

343919 ▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Londo Mollari, 4, #1427 of 2123 🔗

Only if they have symptoms but not on a regular basis. This from a police officer friend

343882 PatrickF, replying to PatrickF, 4, #1428 of 2123 🔗

What are the figures for our old friend Flu? Competing with Covid and the Mutant Ninja?

343946 ▶▶ Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, replying to PatrickF, 9, #1429 of 2123 🔗

Aren’t you paying attention? The flu has been eradicated because of muzzling, anti-social distancing and lockdowns. Nobody can answer why the same measures don’t seem to be working for Covid, but the “logic” is that we should continue these measures every winter because, you know, “the science.”

344016 ▶▶▶ PatrickF, replying to Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, 1, #1430 of 2123 🔗

I thought that was the case! Isn’t “science” wonderful.

343883 Bugle, replying to Bugle, 5, #1431 of 2123 🔗

Hi all,

Just tried to get onto this site through my address bar/firefox and got a blank page with “502 Bad Gateway” nginx. So I got here via duckduckgo instead. Is there any significance to this?

343888 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to Bugle, 2, #1432 of 2123 🔗

No idea but you are not the only one having problems.

343894 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Steeve, #1433 of 2123 🔗

Thanks.

343893 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Bugle, 6, #1434 of 2123 🔗

It’s getting slow for me too. It’s probably just the government using our money to DDOS this site so we can’t read it. All for our own good of course.

343895 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to captainbeefheart, #1435 of 2123 🔗

Of course.

343889 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 24, #1436 of 2123 🔗

Just had acknowledgement from NMC about Laura Duffel, they have added my complaint to the others they have received. I complained as a member of the public rather than as a registered nurse, I don’t know whether it would have made a difference or not.

343903 ▶▶ Alice, replying to p02099003, 3, #1437 of 2123 🔗

Thank you!

343897 l835, replying to l835, 11, #1438 of 2123 🔗

Despite falling “covid numbers” (down from 1:50 to 1:70) drakeford wants to make us queue to get into supermarkets (in the snow?) and follow one way systems, then queue again at the checkout.

He’s making the most of this before vaccines spoil his fun.

344125 ▶▶ Elisabeth, replying to l835, 3, #1439 of 2123 🔗

I’ve seen the arrows and the stand here spots and I blissfully ignore them. Right along with any mask mandates

343905 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 8, #1440 of 2123 🔗

I guess this may already have been posted, but I make no apologies for highlighting the egregious episode again:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-55560814

How do you describe the plod “officers” involved in this outrage?

“Malevolent thick bastards” is my take on it, but feel free to suggest alternatives.

343917 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Tenchy, 8, #1441 of 2123 🔗

School bullies who grew up to realise they could be paid for their sick fantasies. Not as bad as the thugs who burst into the house with the sick child in Aberdeen, however.

344080 ▶▶ Sim18, replying to Tenchy, 5, #1442 of 2123 🔗

It’s a bit of a toss up between malevolent and thick.

The BBC quotes Derbyshire Police as saying:

“”Driving to a location – where exercise could easily have been taken closer to a person’s home – is clearly not in the spirit of the national effort to reduce our travel, reduce the possible spread of the disease and reduce the number of deaths.
“Each officer will use their professional judgement on a case-by-case basis, however, people should expect to be challenged and understand the clear reasons why they may be asked about their movements given the critical situation the NHS currently finds itself in.”

That a police spokesperson could say something so astonishingly stupid is worrying.
They seem to think you can be arrested for breaking the spirit of the law rather than the law itself

343906 BarnsleyBoy, replying to BarnsleyBoy, 1, #1443 of 2123 🔗

a poem posted on the local village FB group, for your delectation:
Not surprised it’s anonymous – who would want to own up to such shite:

They said the world was closed today
So I went to have a look,
I found it with the shutters down
And the phone was off the hook.
So I stood there for a little while
But no one was around,
Then silence came and startled me
With the most alarming sound.
I asked him where the others were,
And why the streets were bare,
He whispered ‘Life had ran away
While death was playing there’
‘Oh no’ I said ‘It can’t be true
For life is not afraid’
‘But no one ever goes’ he said
‘Where death has ever played.’
I understood and walked away
As Hope was standing there
With Courage in her afterglow
And the sunlight in her hair.
She said ‘Go home to those you love
This is no place to be,
For if we walk these streets today
Then no one shall be free’.
She threw her light to lead the way
And showed me where to go,
The very road that life had gone
Where the future flowers grow.
Then death showed me another way
But I didn’t want to look,
So I stumbled home in time for tea
And I read another book.
It was called The World is Closed Today
And the streets we shouldn’t roam,
The first line said ‘Just please be safe’
And the ending – ‘Stay at Home’
Author unknown
Stay safe. Keep others safe.

343961 ▶▶ leggy, replying to BarnsleyBoy, 4, #1444 of 2123 🔗

That’s put me off my dinner.

344039 ▶▶ Annie, replying to BarnsleyBoy, 1, #1445 of 2123 🔗

I should like to think this was ironic rather than moronic.

344260 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Annie, #1446 of 2123 🔗

Definitely moronic!

344056 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to BarnsleyBoy, 1, #1447 of 2123 🔗

These people really do think they are in a war don’t they?

343912 Chris Hume, replying to Chris Hume, 41, #1448 of 2123 🔗

Well here is one for the zealots to think about. London, Kent and Essex went into tier 4 in December, so pubs, restaurants gyms etc were closed, then schools went on holiday and then Christmas was cancelled and now it’s ‘full lockdown’ There was practically zero difference between tier 4 and full lockdown by the way (pubs could sell takeaway alcohol and schools were ‘open’, but as I say were on holiday so effectively closed. What has happened? Cases have ‘surged’, hospitals have become ‘overrun’, deaths are ‘catastrophic’.
Wait a minute, so the correlation is actually that closing schools, gyms and pubs leads to the spike! Making people spend time indoors is maybe not the best idea is it? Particularly as the people who are likely to need to go to hospital are already very old and/or sick so are indoors anyway. Forcing more people indoors with them is probably the stupidest idea I can think of. Lockdowns, do not only, not work, they make things worse for seasonal respiratory infections. Utter madness.

343941 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Chris Hume, 13, #1449 of 2123 🔗

How can people not arrive at this, but instead blame all us selfish bastards? It’s completely nonsensical. There’s been nowhere open to go and create crowds!

343920 Scotty87, replying to Scotty87, 41, #1450 of 2123 🔗

Well it’s all so entirely predictable, isn’t it? The hysteria has been cranked up to eleven now that the lockdown zealots actually have some winter deaths to crow on about. Those idyllic summer days where we sceptics could laugh in the face of the casedemic by simply quoting the miniscule number of (regrettable) Covid casualties are long gone.

You’d be forgiven for thinking that due to the emergence of this mutant variant, we are now in the midst of The Great Plague – wall to wall shrieking from the complicit mainstream media, formerly sensible commentators like Haimes losing his marbles, police storming people’s homes without warrants “because of Covid.”

Yes, lockdown scepticism has taken a battering over the last couple of weeks, what with CRG MPs revealing themselves to be paper tigers, Big Tech ramping up the censorship and prominent dissenters facing an avalanche of abuse from the rabid Covidian cultists. Peter Hitchens called it perfectly. So where do we stand?

Well I’m not about to perform a volte-face anytime soon. There is no level of threat to the NHS that could ever force me to support the most sickening, inhumane theft of life and liberty as we have seen during these lockdowns. There is a reason the likes of the WHO never recommended them in 2019 BC (Before Covid) – the good science always showed that the policy of shutting down society to combat a flu-like virus was a catastrophic one that offered completely negligible benefit at a horrendous cost to people’s lives. We are living that nightmare now.

I cannot imagine for a second that people like Haimes (he isn’t the enemy here but I’m using him as an example) have been exposed to the true horrors of lockdown – I cannot imagine his family has been touched by destitution, depression, addiction, domestic abuse, destroyed educations, untreated cancers, death from other preventable illnesses and suicide. Fortunately neither have I – but I read the accounts of those who have, and my heart weeps for them.

How the rest of society can think this is an acceptable trade-off for a disease that 99.9% of healthy under 70’s survive, I will never understand.

343942 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Scotty87, 3, #1451 of 2123 🔗

“T he lockdown zealots actually have some winter deaths to crow on about. Those idyllic summer days where we sceptics could laugh in the face of the casedemic by simply quoting the miniscule number of (regrettable) Covid casualties are long gone.”

Well, there are “winter deaths” every winter – but do we know how many are in any meaningful way covid-related? And while it’s true that covid casualties were miniscule in the summer, do we really know how much more than “miniscule” they are now?

343953 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 9, #1452 of 2123 🔗

‘Covid’ deaths are a fictional entity. They are unrecorded in any systematic way.

Thus we have to fall back on overall mortality showing a signal of something unusual.

… which it stubbornly refuses to do, with the figures reflecting average levels for the time if year.

343959 ▶▶▶▶ Scotty87, replying to RickH, 2, #1453 of 2123 🔗

Nailed it.