Last updated2021-01-17T11:41:46



361497 Stephen Priest, 45, #1 of 1795 🔗

30,000 Italian Restaurants Defy Lockdown Rules / Hugo talks

361499 Stephen Priest, replying to Stephen Priest, 13, #2 of 1795 🔗

Doctor – When Will The Virus End?


After 304 days of the 15 day lockdown, Democrats no longer want to destroy the economy

361557 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Stephen Priest, 11, #3 of 1795 🔗

304 days ? My main regional hospital has had 195 Covid deaths in that time, 6 in the past 7 days including one sadlidied on Friday.
Woohoi, scary.

361983 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to karenovirus, 7, #4 of 1795 🔗

Was that deaths from or with Covid?

362729 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Rowan, 1, #5 of 1795 🔗

Local Live online only ever says ‘Covid19 deaths’.

363134 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to karenovirus, 1, #6 of 1795 🔗

And of course that is a lie, as we all know.

361724 ▶▶ Aslangeo, replying to Stephen Priest, 11, #7 of 1795 🔗

Could the change of mind by the Democrats be due to Biden’s (Joe Brezhnev) election? – If you are in charge of the government then you are now responsible for the economy and the voters will blame you for the results

362337 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Aslangeo, 4, #8 of 1795 🔗

Yes, that’s it, Democrat governors were getting madder and madder in the hope of being noticed but now that Whitmer’s got the nod (Dem. vice chair) there’s no longer any point.

363287 ▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to Stephen Priest, #9 of 1795 🔗

That’s because there is nothing left.

361500 Stephen Priest, replying to Stephen Priest, 15, #10 of 1795 🔗

Pretzel Logic


The virus story becomes more ridiculous and Orwellian every day.

361517 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Stephen Priest, 36, #11 of 1795 🔗

Fascinating. As he says, to believe both of the following
A. Flu has disappeared because everyone is wearing masks
B. Covid is still rife because the public are not wearing masks enough.
Is indeed nothing less than Orwellian Doublethink.

By way of contrast I saw elsewhere
yesterday that Cambodia has had a handful of Covid cases, no deaths but is having a normal flu season.

361501 Stephen Priest, replying to Stephen Priest, 28, #12 of 1795 🔗

A Sudden Change Of Heart


Rumble The press and Democrats have suddenly decided that lockdowns are bad, now that they believe they have installed their Manchurian candidate in the Oval Office, and no longer want to wreck the economy.

361563 ▶▶ Dorian_Hawkmoon, replying to Stephen Priest, 8, #13 of 1795 🔗

Labour operating in exactly the same way.

362361 ▶▶▶ Ken Garoo, replying to Dorian_Hawkmoon, 2, #14 of 1795 🔗

I thought their leader, one Keir Starmer, was demanding more, faster, harder lockdown (cf neocons after Bsuh started his ‘War Of Terror’).

362602 ▶▶ ColoradoGirl, replying to Stephen Priest, 4, #15 of 1795 🔗

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. If they open too quickly, how will they convince people to take the jab?

362750 ▶▶ Crimson Avenger, replying to Stephen Priest, 2, #16 of 1795 🔗

They may find, and we may too, that many of the people who believe in being locked up, will not believe that it is safe to come out. I hope I am wrong, seems like the Italians have rediscovered hospitality.

361502 Anti_socialist, replying to Anti_socialist, 34, #17 of 1795 🔗

WMA Declaration of Geneva
The “Modern Hippocratic Oath”

Adopted by the 2 nd General Assembly of the World Medical Association, Geneva, Switzerland, September 1948 and amended by the 68 th WMA General Assembly, Chicago, United States, October 2017

The Physician’s Pledge

I WILL RESPECT the autonomy and dignity of my patient;

I WILL PRACTISE my profession with conscience and dignity and in accordance with good medical practice;

I WILL NOT USE my medical knowledge to violate human rights and civil liberties, even under threat;

I MAKE THESE PROMISES solemnly, freely, and upon my honour.

361503 ▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to Anti_socialist, 17, #18 of 1795 🔗

Seems the medical profession has abandoned the Hippocratic oath!

361507 ▶▶▶ Annie, replying to Anti_socialist, 13, #19 of 1795 🔗


” Many people think that doctors still swear the Hippocratic Oath. It is not compulsory but in fact many medical schools now hold a ceremony where graduating doctors do swear an updated version. The British Medical Association (BMA) drafted a new Hippocratic Oath for consideration by the World Medical Association in 1997 but it was not accepted and there is still no one single modern accepted version.”


My bold.

361598 ▶▶▶▶ kpaulsmith1463, replying to Annie, 20, #20 of 1795 🔗

Presumably, Josef Mengele ALSO swore the Hippocratic Oath, and look what a great humanitarian he turned out to be.

361777 ▶▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Annie, 18, #21 of 1795 🔗

Hypocritic oath would be more appropriate

362287 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nottheonly1, replying to Cecil B, 1, #22 of 1795 🔗

I did not read Your comment before I made mine to the same end. But it has to be obvious by now that this is so. Maybe the Cuban doctors are the only ones that abide by Hippocrates’ rules.

361989 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Annie, 9, #23 of 1795 🔗

It doesn’t matte what oath they have sworn or not sworn, doctors are still up to their armpits in the corona swamp.

362283 ▶▶▶ Nottheonly1, replying to Anti_socialist, 4, #24 of 1795 🔗

The Hippocratic oath has long been replaced by the Hypocratic oath.

361635 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Anti_socialist, 30, #25 of 1795 🔗

Unfortunately the medical profession has en masse violated the Hippocratic oath.

I can imagine that many people will never trust a medical practitioner again. Ever.

363005 ▶▶▶ Trish, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #26 of 1795 🔗

And what about the SAGE behavioural psychologists arguably breaching their Code of Ethic by promoting fear as a tool to gain compliance.

361504 Judy Watson, replying to Judy Watson, 7, #27 of 1795 🔗

Good morning to everyone in the tiers -from one in the zones. Only Thailand could come up with the idea of a red zone!! 😂 😂 😂

361505 ▶▶ Annie, replying to Judy Watson, 9, #28 of 1795 🔗

Dear, highly respectable lady, pray tell us all about life in the Red Zone.
All ours are grey.

361994 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Annie, #29 of 1795 🔗

Yes, do throw a light on the subject.

361646 ▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to Judy Watson, 3, #30 of 1795 🔗

I prefer a Thai red curry.

361781 ▶▶▶ penelope pitstop, replying to Boris Bullshit, 1, #31 of 1795 🔗

I’ll go for a Thai green curry if it gives me more freedom! 🙂

361998 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to penelope pitstop, 2, #32 of 1795 🔗

And it would make Bill Gates and Klaus Schwab much happier.

362774 ▶▶ Crimson Avenger, replying to Judy Watson, #33 of 1795 🔗

They’ve got them in Washington at the moment. Don’t know what for.

361506 Laurence, replying to Laurence, 68, #34 of 1795 🔗

Some feedback to the BBC on a ‘more or less’ episode recently:

I listened to the podcast of ‘More or Less’ for 14 January and have a number of concerns, which I would be pleased if you could consider:

i)                You compare the first wave of COVID to the second wave in terms of deaths, and quote headline figures of peak announced COVID deaths of 1,325 on 29 December and peak by date of death 795 on 6 January. However, these figures should be ‘sense-checked’ by comparison to total deaths.

If you look at total deaths by week (source: ONS), the average week in April over the 5 years 2015-19 showed 10,344 deaths in England and Wales, or when adjusted for 2020 population and age around 11,100.The worst two weeks of April 2020 showed 22,351 and 21,997 respectively, an ‘excess’ death rate of around 11,000. The corresponding figures for December are 10,998 average weekly deaths for 2015-2019 (excluding Christmas week as the figures lose two days of reporting that week), 11,878 adjusted for age. The worst week of 2020/21 in December/ January showed 13,011 deaths compared to an average for that week of 11,548 (unadjusted) or 12,472 adjusted, an excess of 539. (Christmas week is difficult to analyse because of the disruption in reporting caused by bank holidays but would be in the order of 750, and the same the week after.)

So the difference in death rates between April and December 2020 is so significant (a factor of around 15) that it to call now a second wave is a category error.

The headline death figures, you quote, are so far removed from actual incremental death rates that they cannot be seen as indicative of anything but what they are – the number of people who died within 28 days after a positive result from a test that is notoriously unreliable (see inter alia the NYT article Your Coronavirus Test Is Positive. Maybe It Shouldn’t Be. – The New York Times (nytimes.com) ).

Looking at the overall impact of the pandemic on 2020 death figures, the age adjusted excess death figure is around 30-35,000, which includes all the incremental deaths from lockdown as well, so could be far fewer than even this from COVID itself, and the number of younger people (under 75) represents no more than 20% of this, or 7,000 people.

ii)               On hospitalisations you compare the flu admissions rate in 2017/18 of 3500 over 28 weeks to the COVID rate this winter of 4,000 over 3 weeks. Again, is this another categorisation error due to the inadequacy of testing ? After all, overall G&A occupancy rates are well down on previous years and critical care occupancy according to the latest available figures is 4,529 for 10 January compared to the previous worst of 3,456 in 2014/15 (but adjusting for population growth in the over 65s which represent the overwhelming majority of such patients gives 3,742). So this year is 21% higher than 2014/15 – worse but hardly indicative of a pandemic. The questions we should be asking are:

  1. Why do we only have around 4,500 critical care beds in a modern country of 60 million people (E&W) ?
  2. Why are staff stopped from coming into work on the basis of these notoriously unreliable tests, when they are in many cases not even ill ?
  3. To what extent are the criteria the same this year for putting patients into critical care ?

Again, comparing December to April, of course the hospitalisation figures are worse now as the UK notoriously sent older people back to their nursing homes to die and infect others in April – at least we are not doing that this time, but we then can’t compare the figures without taking this into account.

So if you look at total hospitalisation rates they are at worst 21% higher than previous bad years, not 10 times as high.

iii)             Finally on the cases, these figures are clearly devoid of context without a denominator, and once you take this into account they are clearly falling. The King’s College App figures are significantly more objective and not reliant on PCR testing, and demonstrate clearly that London infections have been falling since 28 December. For the government to say this is due to the lockdown is transparently incorrect.

I should be grateful if you would consider the above.

361509 ▶▶ Annie, replying to Laurence, 52, #35 of 1795 🔗

Dear Sane Person

We are unable to consider your comments, as BBC rules forbid any interaction or communication with sane persons on any subject whatsoever.

Yours faithlessly

361520 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Laurence, 20, #36 of 1795 🔗

I was very disappointed by the insipid nature of this latest More or Less programme, more a programme of accepting the official stats rather than challenging them. As you discuss above the statistic that I cannot get my head around is the deaths within 28 days of a +ve covid test figure, although it seems to be this figure that is driving the panic and hysteria. A figure that we, of course, did not have back in April.
Looking at the current NHS/Gov dashboard

  1. It states UK weekly registered deaths = 3417 presumably this is the week ending 1st Jan
  2. For the 7 days leading up to 1st Jan the total of deaths within 28 days of a +ve Covid test = 4770
  3. So by my ropey maths that means the scary, panic deaths within 28 days figure is 39.5% higher than the actual figure of registered deaths with covid on the death certificate!

I just do not understand how the powers that be can just carry on with 2 such apparently different death totals, unless I have misunderstood something (quite possible) then we are using the very inflated 28 day death figure to drive public health policy decisions?

361593 ▶▶▶ Laurence, replying to Steve Martindale, 10, #37 of 1795 🔗

Both figures are massively overstated. You need to look at excess deaths which is around 500-750 per week.

361760 ▶▶▶▶ Van Allen, replying to Laurence, 11, #38 of 1795 🔗

Which is easily explainable as deaths caused by lockdowns. Admittedly more analysis required of split between underlying causes. Some would argue that even if respiratory illnesses are higher than normal, the fact that most people are choosing to wear a dirty piece of rag across their airways, means that more respiratory illnesses and ultimately deaths are inevitable.

361778 ▶▶ mj, replying to Laurence, 14, #39 of 1795 🔗

i just listened on my morning walk. i had two main concerns.
They talked about cases and whilst they did mention that this was where a test had shown a positive, they gave no context about numbers of tests and the fundamental issue of whether any of these people who had a positive test was actually ill, was asymptomatic or was a false positive, and so consequentially it was meaningless.
Same issue with deaths. Again they said that it was a death within 28 days of a positive test but again did not quantify this with whether the person was actually ill with covid, or was asymptomatic or not . So again meaningless

361958 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to mj, 4, #40 of 1795 🔗

they don’t quantify the death figure- when they show the figure on screen (BBC) it is labelled “death for any reason with a covid test within 28 days”.

362074 ▶▶▶ Binra, replying to mj, 9, #41 of 1795 🔗

Meaninglessness has become the basis and framework for almost all human endeavour – as in the attempt to escape an unreal problem causing very real problems that in turn are misinterpreted to cascade as a new world illusion that will run a while as the destruction of the old and the basis for redistribution of priority and therefore wealth and power.

Almost all of of ‘lockdownsceptics’ joins the mainstream in the chewing over of meaninglessness as if telling it it is not true will be heard and change the mindset in invested self-illusions. We can only accept truth in our own hearts – but will always find some relational exchange and synchronicity in such restored alignment because we are relational being.

Fact 1 – the method and means of the asserted discovery of Sars-Cov-2 are highly questionable and relate more to computer modelling of preselective bias than any empirically isolated and identified entity or object.

Fact 2 – no study has investigated this reconstituted ‘Platonic’ ideal of a virus as a cause of any disease.

Fact 3 – no one actually has any samples of actual Sars-Cov-2 for the purpose of such research.

Fact 4 – the PCR testing parameters developed by (the usual suspect) Dr Drostren and peer reviewed, proofed and published in under 2 days – with digital information and no actual virus sample are highly questionable and are being called for retraction by scientific peers as fraud or without foundation.

Fact 5 – The Corporate Financial sector is part and parcel of innumerable NGO ‘fronts’ and proxies of business, state and media – such as to exercise disproportionate leverages over all traditional checks and balances, such as to be able to generate the narratives by which to set regulatory structures under which to make their position safe relative to collapse of social and economic order resulting from their corruption of systems that serve to hold the conditions for life, into systems of predation upon the lives of others. This includes language and meaning. The result is meaninglessness or insanity.

Fact 5 is the context of 1-4 – and reflects the methods assigned to a parasitic hijacking ‘virus’.

The mind has the capacity to mask over and deny its own act and intention by accusing and attacking the same in others, In this way it reveals a signature to its own inner conflict. However the collective will is weighted towards externalising our own unresolved conflict and assigning blame, rather than creating the conditions for healing, undoing and correcting as a reconnection and alignment in felt presence of communication restored. It is my sense that this – as an addictive pattern – has to bottom out – for the uncovering of a true willingness for serving and supporting Life – rather than seeking or evading vengeance set in ancient patterns that can be represented as an alien will or mind set over ‘Planet Lockdown’. …
This reflection continues on:

362005 ▶▶ J4mes, replying to Laurence, 8, #42 of 1795 🔗

I dearly hope there are few sceptics that still have a TV licence. No one should complain about the [ B ]olsheviks [ B ]roadcasting [ C ]ommunism while continuing to fund their psychological warfare.

363282 ▶▶ Bartleby, replying to Laurence, #43 of 1795 🔗

Great analysis. I’ve felt similarly annoyed and vexed this evening after reading this piece in the telegraph.

Almost a third of recovered Covid patients return to hospital in five months and one in eight die (telegraph.co.uk)

From the article:
Research by Leicester University and the Office for National Statistics (ONS) found there is a devastating long-term toll on survivors of severe coronavirus, with many people developing heart problems, diabetes and chronic liver and kidney conditions.
Out of 47,780 people who were discharged from hospital in the first wave, 29.4 per cent were readmitted to hospital within 140 days, and 12.3 per cent of the total died.
The current cut-off point for recording Covid deaths is 28 days after a positive test, so it may mean thousands more people should be included in the coronavirus death statistics.


Not wishing to play the man instead of the ball, let me do a little of both.

Study author Kamlesh Khunti, professor of primary care diabetes and vascular medicine at Leicester University is said on google to be not only working in research and advisory – but he’s a Director of the Centre for Black Minority Ethnic Health as well as a Director for UK National Health Research and secured some 2.1M funding to assess the risks of covid for BAME staff.

In other words, it’s not like he’s an uninterested party to spinning news which helps him secure funding. By the way, that’s not to say such research isn’t valuable, it would just feel more transparent if it was clearly articulated that there’s a stake involved for many scientists in their public announcements.

The other thing I find astonishing in the article by the Telegraph is there is not one mention of the age or any other profile of any of the nearly 30% of people who had to go back into hospital or for the 12.3% of them who subsequently died.

Without that being mentioned, it’s hard to judge the evidence that many more thousands of people should be included in the covid death statistics.

I posted something relevant to this the other day in the forums.

80% of people over the age of 75 who die each year in England go into hospital at least once in the last year of their life. In fact, a significant proportion have at least 3 emergency admissions in the last 3 months of their life. It isn’t really a surprise that those people who needed hospital treatment for covid needed additional help within 5 months or indeed that 12.3 of them out of every 100 died relatively shortly after (within 5 months).

Unless you can show a causal correlation between covid and their future health experience, it feels the most likely explanation for this data pattern is the fact that they are
approaching the end of their lives.

I hope to find the preprint of the study to see how it breaks down it’s analysis with any kind of age or comorbidities.

We know for a fact that over 1,000 people who were already in a hospice have been diagnosed as a death from covid in the official ONS figures, which seems slightly ludicrous given that they were in a hospice already.

So forgive me if I find this study and the lack of context about the headline figures potentially misleading and alarmist.

361508 CivilianNotCovidian, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 120, #44 of 1795 🔗

Please everyone on Twitter look at the disgraceful and unlawful tweet of Simon Hoare MP and the comments below it. At least majority are condemning it. But his comment is a hate crime against people who cannot wear masks. It is also inaccurate. To back himself up suggests the exception card is made by amazon when it is the image from the government’s own web site. The most alarming comment I saw was one that claims non masked people are being called “rat lickers” – a term used for “people who licked rats during the plague in order to spread it” (as if!) We must all lodge formal complaints and ensure Simon Hoare is made to resign. It is EXACTLY the same as him writing inflammatory comments to incite violence against someone who is gay. Do you need “proof” you are gay? Do you need a doctor to “declare” you are gay? Please everyone, let’s mount a campaign to have this man removed from public office. Mask bullying and hate crime is getting out of control.

361514 ▶▶ Annie, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 31, #45 of 1795 🔗

You go down the Twittersewer, you encounter Twitter rats.I don’t know how you can bear it!

361519 ▶▶▶ CivilianNotCovidian, replying to Annie, 46, #46 of 1795 🔗

It’s awful but I have to keep up with what is going on out there as I am documenting this whole catastrophe. There is a sinister pattern growing. I have a strong sense that the lockdown pushing and mask bullying memes are originating from a source determined to destroy the country. They are being picked up and spread by virtue signallers and the brainwashed, including MPs who are desperate for popularity. Normal human beings without a specific aggressive agenda do not think up such vicious and damaging concepts on their own without a push. It’s good to see that the majority of comments are taking him down, and I think/hope the truth about masks will spread faster than any virus or viral memes.

361536 ▶▶▶▶ Annie, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 27, #47 of 1795 🔗

You’re right. I salute all the brave, decent folk who fight back. I closed my Twitter account because the stuff coming from anglophobe Welsh lockdown fanatics made me feel physically sick.

362233 ▶▶▶▶ sam club, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 6, #48 of 1795 🔗

thank you . the masks are the one thing i hate the most.i never ever have worn one outside and rarely go anywhere that says have to wear mask.adn do my best to get away wihtnot wearing one there too. it is sinister what has been going on you a re right, and welocme back form 2 week break!

362374 ▶▶▶▶▶ Woden, replying to sam club, 6, #49 of 1795 🔗

Always have positive body language and go about your business with head held high…

362614 ▶▶▶▶▶ CivilianNotCovidian, replying to sam club, 4, #50 of 1795 🔗

Stay strong, Sam. I assure you there are some really great minds doing everything they can to bring a stop to this horrible policy… be brave and never let the mask bullies upset you.

362253 ▶▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 3, #51 of 1795 🔗

The rat in Twitterati.

362327 ▶▶▶▶ Nottheonly1, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 8, #52 of 1795 🔗

I have a strong sense that the lockdown pushing and mask bullying memes are originating from a source determined to destroy the country.

Almost. The truth however is much worse. Anybody who has paid attention to global affairs and the hands that stir them up for the last twenty years alone, knows that this is the final battle to return to the ‘master and slave’ world of old. In way too many ways truly ‘biblical’ – as those ‘masters’ hide behind the “in god we trust” mantra and are therefor nothing but a Kast of Pied Pipers, easily subdueing the broader mass of populations the globe over.
The most disturbing fact in all this is the hypnosis like belief that “they wouldn’t do that to us” – while it is done to them 24/7. Obedience has its roots in religion and therefor, where there is religion, there is the greatest obedience to the god-like corporatists’ political rulers. In comparison, indigenous populations the world over had only allegiance towards Nature – the same entity that was and still is to be defeated, subdued and exploited at will by religious man. That the hyper rich billionaires who are the string pullers of this enslavement and disenfrenchisement of the many drive only use religion as a tool should be an accepted truth by now. The Pope telling people to obey the mask mandate and to get jabbed speaks volumes about the complicity of the church in all of this.

There are three options left imho: total servitude, total anarchy, or suicide. Even though I prefer anarchy over suicide, if the majority is unable to bring to an end this christo-fascist assault on humanity, suicide it will be. I’d rather be dead than wearing a brown shirt. Or get jabbed.

All the best to You.

362425 ▶▶▶▶▶ awildgoose, replying to Nottheonly1, 4, #53 of 1795 🔗

Yes, we may be living in the Book of Revelation.

Totally agree about the hypnotized as well. Very frustrating to deal with.

362624 ▶▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Nottheonly1, #54 of 1795 🔗

Close to my sentiments.

362618 ▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 1, #55 of 1795 🔗

Common Purpose??

363288 ▶▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 1, #56 of 1795 🔗

It’s possible that some of those people are being paid to do it.

361521 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 18, #57 of 1795 🔗

Rat lickers is an invented phrase, medieval people did not know plague came flea infested rats.
Anyone wanting to spread it would have licked his dog.

361534 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to karenovirus, 3, #58 of 1795 🔗

The Black Death had nothing to do with rats. It was not the bubonic plague.

361538 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Steve Hayes, 5, #59 of 1795 🔗

My point still stands

361555 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Steve Hayes, 4, #60 of 1795 🔗

Eh, I thought it was? Serious question.

361568 ▶▶▶▶▶ sophie123, replying to TJN, 7, #61 of 1795 🔗

Somebody made this point last summer, and I was surprised too, so I looked into it.
There is a very convincing theory that the Black Death was an Ebola-like haemorrhagic fever. But also some evidence that yersinia pestis DNA has been found in victims. So as far as I can tell, it’s not settled.

361640 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to sophie123, 5, #62 of 1795 🔗

OK, interesting thanks. I hadn’t heard of that – always ready for reinterpretations of history based on weight of evidence.

361956 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to TJN, #63 of 1795 🔗

There can be no “weight of evidence” from the mid fourteenth century.

362102 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Steve F, replying to John P, #64 of 1795 🔗

DNA analysis is evidence.

362105 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Steve F, #65 of 1795 🔗

I know it is. But you will need to be a little more specific. What DNA evidence?

362998 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ sophie123, replying to sophie123, #67 of 1795 🔗

By the way, I am not arguing. There are many persuasive arguments in the BMJ article. But then there is the DNA evidence.
I find it all fascinating.

also, the English sweating sickness….what the heck was that? Some theories are a hantavirus, but who can say?

One thing is for sure, coronaviruses are no Black Death.

363294 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Elisabeth, replying to sophie123, #68 of 1795 🔗

Interesting read! Thank you for sharing

362132 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to John P, 3, #69 of 1795 🔗

There can still be evidence, and you go with where it points you. If there’s no weight of evidence how can we say it’s bubonic plague?

First time I’ve heard this hypothesis – I’m not saying I’m going with it just that I’ll keep a look out for it and weigh the evidence as it appears to me. It’s all we can do, and we are Sceptics after all …

361950 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to sophie123, -1, #70 of 1795 🔗

FFS it haappened in the mid fourteenth century. This is fake news!

362277 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to sophie123, #71 of 1795 🔗

Another theory suggests that the plague was caused by
space debris. Why not? We live in space.

361865 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to TJN, #72 of 1795 🔗

No. It was not bubonic plague. This is clear if one compares the contemporary accounts with what is known about bubonic plague. The assertion that it was bubonic plague was invented at the turn of the nineteenth/twentieth century and has been repeated as fact for a hundred years. Here is a brief explanation: https://pmj.bmj.com/content/81/955/315

361960 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Steve Hayes, #73 of 1795 🔗

Yes it was.

362556 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Steve Hayes, #74 of 1795 🔗

Ok thanks, just read the abstract and will look at more fully later. I’ve long wondered why so many people survived the ‘Black Death’ – say 60-70% in England. This suggests some prior immunity. I don’t know if this is more common with viral rather than bacterial diseases.

361953 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to TJN, #75 of 1795 🔗

IT WAS. Serious answer.

361609 ▶▶▶▶ Annie, replying to Steve Hayes, 6, #76 of 1795 🔗

I have read some very interesting stuff that challenges the bubonic plague idea. Time Team (I think) did a fair and reasonable programme on it that comes up quite frequently on Freeview,

361963 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Annie, 2, #77 of 1795 🔗

Yes, and Tony Robinson of Time Team and Blackadder fame also believes that Edward IV was illegitimate.

362286 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to John P, 3, #78 of 1795 🔗

In many respects, all monarchs were illegitimate.

361948 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Steve Hayes, #79 of 1795 🔗

Don’t talk crap. Yes it was!

362002 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to John P, 3, #80 of 1795 🔗

I suggest you might like to exercise some scepticism and read the reference I provided a link to, or for a more detailed account see Susan Scott and Christopher Duncan (2004) Return of the Black Death , which provides a comprehensive refutation of the claim that the Black Death was bubonic plague.

362231 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #81 of 1795 🔗

Indeed. No-one can possibly know for certain at this historical remove. The exact nature of so-called Spanish ‘Flu, a mere 100 years ago, is still the subject of debate.

362471 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Dermot McClatchey, #82 of 1795 🔗

The Black Death could not have been bubonic plague. The evidence is overwhelming.

363274 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to Steve Hayes, #83 of 1795 🔗

You’ve obviously made a considerable emotional investment in your hypothesis. I’m put in mind of what Thackeray said about Macaulay.

362145 ▶▶▶ jos, replying to karenovirus, 9, #84 of 1795 🔗

A lot of the plague and Spanish flu narratives which appeared on Facebook at the start of the scamdemic were fake and were shown to be but still got shared as if they were true – what this shows is that this was very carefully planned with all the disinformation and propaganda in place ready to circulate to the masses to mind-fuck us – and it’s worked so well that a lot of otherwise smart people are unpersuadable that the government is not acting in our best interests- even the current level of censorship of news of dissent in other countries doesn’t bother them .. it feels too late to help the unpersuadable

362346 ▶▶▶▶ Nottheonly1, replying to jos, 1, #85 of 1795 🔗

The best example has to be WikiFake. The efforts of the hyper rich psychopaths is to cut the strings to the past. Wasn’t it Marcus Garvey who said that “A people without knowledge of their past – is like a tree without roots.”?
What is going on is a depopulation program and it has been planned to the minute details. That Nature always has the last word – because homo sapiens is anything but the master of the universe – should go without further discussion.
How long until people will be able to follow H.G. Robinson’s final walk into a euthanasia center to be converted into Soylent Green?

361522 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 7, #86 of 1795 🔗

I would rather have a 4 legged rat than the 2 legged one like him and the rest of the collaborators and sheep.

362353 ▶▶▶ Nottheonly1, replying to Fingerache Philip, 1, #87 of 1795 🔗

Plus, the four legged rat is smarter and does not denounce you like the two legged cretinous version. Actually, to call these decrepit people a rat, is an insult to all rats – not only because I am a metal rat…

361532 ▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 5, #88 of 1795 🔗

hate crime

Its a slippery slope when you start playing that game.

361537 ▶▶▶ CivilianNotCovidian, replying to Anti_socialist, 12, #89 of 1795 🔗

Can you explain? Do you disagree that mask bullying can be construed as hate crime against a person with a protected characteristic? Even if the bullying is aimed at a person not wearing a mask on some other grounds, it implicitly impacts people who do not wear masks on grounds of a disability that is a protected characteristic.

361547 ▶▶▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 20, #90 of 1795 🔗

I disagree with any concept of hate speech or crime, some ones motive is irrelevant, if they’ve committed a real crime. Hate speech is another man’s free speech!

Unless some one incites violence against mask refuseniks, then they have a right to say whatever they like regardless of how intolerable we find it. That’s the cost of free speech!

I disagree with any concept, of “protected characteristics ” its not democracy if some people have greater rights than others.

361590 ▶▶▶▶▶ CivilianNotCovidian, replying to Anti_socialist, 2, #91 of 1795 🔗

So no one should be mask exempt?

361686 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 16, #92 of 1795 🔗

No one should be forced to wear a mask, but even if my opinion were the opposite, i should have the right to express my opinion.

361737 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Anti_socialist, 4, #93 of 1795 🔗

Of course. We should all have the right to free speech. I know this government doesnt think so but then they are globalist puppets who do not respect our Human or Civil Rights and for some peculiar reason think we are their serfs!

362619 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ CivilianNotCovidian, replying to Anti_socialist, #94 of 1795 🔗

Well explained. Thank you!

361689 ▶▶▶▶▶ TheBigman, replying to Anti_socialist, 1, #95 of 1795 🔗

We may have found the first thing we agree on.

361789 ▶▶▶▶▶ JanMasarykMunich, replying to Anti_socialist, 11, #96 of 1795 🔗

I am also very wary of the ‘hate speech’ laws. Nevertheless, in this case CivNotCov has my full support, and I think we should all be supporting those who are fighting on Twitter — this must be extremely exhausting, but it is vital.

Since Hate Speech laws exist, then let’s use them. Also in this case, simple laws against incitement to violence may be sufficient anyway.

Crucially, the virtue signallers must be told loud and clear that they are the ones who are hateful. I reckon deep down they know they are.

So, great work, CivNotCov.

361577 ▶▶▶▶ Dorian_Hawkmoon, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 4, #97 of 1795 🔗

I think you may have imbibed the ‘hate crime’ rhetoric and normalised it uncritically, CNC. It is the language of the activist SJW infesting our institutions.

361589 ▶▶▶▶▶ CivilianNotCovidian, replying to Dorian_Hawkmoon, 1, #98 of 1795 🔗

So no one should be mask exempt?

361610 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 6, #99 of 1795 🔗

I’m not happy with the way the Equalities Act has been used and fear that it is going to be used to shut down discussion on a wide variety of cultural issues . That being said, I think it should be weaponised to the advantage of anti-maskers.

361621 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ CivilianNotCovidian, replying to Londo Mollari, 15, #100 of 1795 🔗

Voicing your objection to an act of Parliament is totally acceptable. Holding a political view is acceptable. But, at this moment in time, the LAW does state that it is a crime to discriminate against anyone upon certain grounds. Or to incite people to do so. This MP’s language is clearly abusive and incites hatred towards groups of people (for example those suffering anxiety, claustrophobia, PTSD) on the grounds of their particular condition or situation. I think he should resign for this.

361697 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 2, #101 of 1795 🔗

You may hate the law, that doesn’t mean hate should be against the law.

If you brake the law you’re classed a criminal, fair enough. You’re trying to conflate illegal with non crime hate speech.

Its a faux pas.

362219 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ sam club, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 2, #102 of 1795 🔗

i think everyone should be mask exempt . i despise the masks and masks rule more than anyhting else. and enforced vaccine no way will i get a vaccine and the vaccine passport we must stop it

362558 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to sam club, 3, #103 of 1795 🔗

If you read the guidelines, everyone IS mask exempt. They just need to choose to be.

361595 ▶▶▶▶▶ CivilianNotCovidian, replying to Dorian_Hawkmoon, 2, #104 of 1795 🔗

I’m not shutting you both down, here, btw. I’m listening. I want to learn. But do you then disagree with the Equalities Act? Are you arguing that people exempt themselves purely on basic human rights grounds (“you cannot make me do something that causes me harm”)?

361819 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 4, #105 of 1795 🔗

I abhor bullying & harassment, i judge people by their character & actions. But you can’t prevent discrimination & prejudice with legislation, these are part of primitive human nature. To our ancestors it was the difference between life & death.

Controversially there are evolutionary & ecological explanations for inequality, i’m not saying we should remain cave men, technology has helped overcome physical constraints of the sexes.

But equality is a myth, people aren’t equally empathetic, equally greedy, equally driven to succeed, equally charitable etc. Whilst as a society we should support & protect the weakest, Socialism is only sustainable with authoritarianism! Authoritarianism always slides into totalitarian tyyranny. Dictatorship by the privileged minority at the expense of the repressed majority.

362371 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ken Garoo, replying to Anti_socialist, 3, #106 of 1795 🔗

“But you can’t prevent discrimination & prejudice with legislation”

You can’t prevent murder, robbery, etc with legislation. That is not the purpose of the legislation. It is to provide some degree of remedy for the injustice done by the defendent.

363289 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, #107 of 1795 🔗

The government’s intransigence is causing many of us harm.

362446 ▶▶▶▶ Bungle, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 5, #108 of 1795 🔗

Mask wearing can be exempted if you feel ‘severe distress’. Anyone knowing the science must feel distressed and you decide, not a doctor or expert. And the government website says you don’t need a card or disclaimer. Anyone asks you and tell them they are committing the crime of harassment if they do it a second time. If they persist, video them.

361622 ▶▶ kpaulsmith1463, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 5, #109 of 1795 🔗

Appropriate (sounding) surname though, yes?
Hoare by name.
Whore by nature.

361625 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to kpaulsmith1463, #110 of 1795 🔗

Is he descended from the Hoare bankers ?

361658 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 3, #111 of 1795 🔗

I’ve just fired off an email letting him know what I think of him.

361951 ▶▶ DeepBlueYonder, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 4, #112 of 1795 🔗

Where do you think it would be most effective to direct our complaints?


The Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards?


The Conservative Party?

The police?

(or all of them?)

362387 ▶▶ sam club, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, #113 of 1795 🔗

i cant understand twitter. tried to find the comments that are condemming it but couldn’t . is ok is time waster – twitter

362462 ▶▶ frankfrankly, replying to CivilianNotCovidian, 1, #114 of 1795 🔗

I sent him the Dr Ted Noel video exhaling billowing vape through a mask

361510 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 164, #115 of 1795 🔗

Thin ice Boris?

Saturday afternoon Otley town.

We had a tremendous snowfall on Thursday and freezing temperatures on Friday which turned the snow to thick ice. I didn’t get my usual daily walk until Saturday and the pathways were still ‘dodgy’ with melting ice and slush. I was amazed at the number of people who were out and about in and around town. Hundreds of them. Singles, couples, families, dogs. Some had walking poles, many had big boots and thick jackets and scarves. It’s a long time since I’ve seen as many folk buzzing around. Has the lock down been lifted? Did I miss something? Here’s my observations from a one hour walk.

*Busy traffic.
*Lots of laughing and chit chat.
* No Covid dancing.
*only saw FOUR masked people which as a percentage doesn’t register.
*Greggs doing a good trade with three unmasked people in when I passed.
*Corner chippy open and two unmasked folk inside getting their chips.
*In keeping with my experience of the last year, NO policemen in sight. I read all sorts of horror stories about aggressive police brutality but in my town they’ve all gone AWOL.
* Called in at my favourite bakers (Teales) mask less of course and was served by a friendly unmasked assistant.

Walked over the ‘white bridge’ (which is a footbridge) with only one ice free strip to one side. People were walking on this narrow strip and holding on to the bridge rail for safety. The dilemma here was either to walk on the ice free strip and thereby maintain your footing or veer off to the other side to maintain social distancing and risk slipping on the ice. Risk breaking a leg or risk getting Coroni? No contest! I’m pleased to say that everyone I met decided that whilst they were negotiating the bridge Coroni had disappeared!

As I was returning home I saw a lady on her own approaching me from the opposite direction. We both smiled as we approached one another. ‘Lovely day for a walk’ I said and this initiated a pleasant chat centred on feeding the birds in the cold weather. She told me that she had seen a Bullfinch in her garden that morning and I mentioned the long tailed tits and the nuthatch that were coming into my garden due to my array of nut and seed feeders. ‘Yes’, she said ‘the natural world just goes on about its business whilst governments and people go mad’. I agreed most heartedly and made a mental note that I had just encountered a ‘sceptic’.

If Boris is trying to scare the beejeezers out of folk then he is most assuredly failing in my home town. In fact, it seems that the harder and more extreme his doom and gloom pronouncements become the more people are ignoring them.

You must try harder Boris. Like many a person walking on thin ice….if you’re not careful you’ll be falling through!

361513 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Harry hopkins, 36, #116 of 1795 🔗

Wonderful report though the people out and about would be self selecting Covid doubters while lockdown zealots will be hiding behind the curtains, except for one M Hancock.

361691 ▶▶▶ WasSteph, replying to karenovirus, 12, #117 of 1795 🔗

True of course but Harry does seem to have encountered a fair number of them which is a very pleasing sign.

362419 ▶▶▶ Fiona Walker, replying to karenovirus, 3, #118 of 1795 🔗

Good, let them hide if it makes them happy.

362703 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to karenovirus, 5, #119 of 1795 🔗

Of course the Covid thickos are still shielding, but that’s not the point. It is great that so many people are ignoring the endless nonsense that pours out of Johnson and his corrupt government.

361515 ▶▶ Annie, replying to Harry hopkins, 38, #120 of 1795 🔗

Three cheers for Otley!

361551 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Harry hopkins, 18, #121 of 1795 🔗

Sturgeonia would benefit from an Otley lesson!

361612 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to wendyk, 22, #122 of 1795 🔗

As would the People’s Republic of North West Essex. I wish this outbreak of common sense would drift further south!

361680 ▶▶▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to kh1485, 9, #123 of 1795 🔗

Yes I dont see much sign of that in shropshire….still mainly masked zombies outside there. I went in a bakers which allows two in but the masked young woman waiting outside would not come into the shop as I was unmasked. Still swervers outside too.

363291 ▶▶▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to Boris Bullshit, #124 of 1795 🔗

When I was one and twenty I heard a wise man say …

361793 ▶▶▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to kh1485, 8, #125 of 1795 🔗

I wish such an outbreak of common sense would happen in Newmarket also, still far too many zombie maskers and swervers here.

361560 ▶▶ Scotty87, replying to Harry hopkins, 27, #126 of 1795 🔗

What a wonderful complement your post was to my morning coffee. Glad to see that there are pockets of resistance springing up everywhere!

361639 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Harry hopkins, 18, #127 of 1795 🔗

Great report. Shows that the cracks are getting wider and the more this spreads, the more the government’s days are numbered.

361644 ▶▶ Janette, replying to Harry hopkins, 16, #128 of 1795 🔗

Excellent news. This gives me hope people are waking up.

361710 ▶▶ alw, replying to Harry hopkins, 10, #129 of 1795 🔗

You have brightened my day. Thank you.

362160 ▶▶ jos, replying to Harry hopkins, -8, #130 of 1795 🔗

I would so love this to be true but have started doubting all posts that when I like them jump by 9 points – I’ve noticed this happens a lot on this site and I’ve taken to only trusting the comments that jump by 1 – the problem is what is there to doubt in your post except that you seem to be advocating something which will probably be banned soon – talking to people on the street 🤦‍♀️

362203 ▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to jos, 19, #131 of 1795 🔗

I don’t really understand your reply Jos.

Edward Curtin has recently written a piece for ‘Off Guardian’ which he prefaced with the words:

‘We now live in a screen world where written words and logic are beside the point. Facts don’t matter. Personal physical experience doesn’t matter. Clear thinking doesn’t matter. Hysterical reactions are what matter. Manipulated emotions are what matter’.

From my point of view my post was based on my ‘Personal physical experience’ which to me is what counts. Make of it what you will.

362590 ▶▶▶▶ jos, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #132 of 1795 🔗

I don’t have any objections to your post – I just don’t get why the system of upticks on this site are heavily weighted in favour of certain posts (x10 in some cases) – just check if you don’t believe me and if anyone else has noticed this and has an explanation for it I’d love to know.

362289 ▶▶▶ Jez Hewitt, replying to jos, 16, #133 of 1795 🔗

jos- they jump because when you place your vote or up/down tick it refreshes the page resulting in the new total of all ticks since you last refreshed. Nothing sinister or any manipulation.

362596 ▶▶▶▶ jos, replying to Jez Hewitt, #134 of 1795 🔗

But it refreshes every time I press any of them and some are just 1 – why wouldn’t it refresh each time?

362687 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to jos, 1, #135 of 1795 🔗

I think that an individual’s display of the like/unlike scores is only updated when he/she goes to register a vote. Pretty sure it is simply a postponed update.

363292 ▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to jos, #136 of 1795 🔗

I think that the post counter needs more RAM.

362312 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Harry hopkins, 4, #137 of 1795 🔗

Sadly the High Peak escaped both Otley’s snow and its outbreak of sanity…
Swerving and cringing away can still be encountered here as we found yesterday.
The snow can melt away within hours or days but some of these people will stay terrified forever.

362366 ▶▶ Nottheonly1, replying to Harry hopkins, 7, #138 of 1795 🔗

He is conferring with Merkel on a daily basis. The more it becomes clear that lockdowns only work to worsen the overall situation – the more drastic, draconian and prolongued the lockdowns will be. It is fascism by any other name.

362395 ▶▶ Bungle, replying to Harry hopkins, 5, #139 of 1795 🔗

Which town M8? I was watching long-tailed tits myself in a tree with a treecreeper on the trunk. Ilkley.

362399 ▶▶ Bungle, replying to Harry hopkins, 5, #140 of 1795 🔗

Sorry M8,missed the Otley at the beginning – both on the River Wharfe. Meinen Gottellgriever.

362430 ▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Bungle, 6, #141 of 1795 🔗

Hi Bungle…We’ve now got Otters in the Wharfe just outside of town. Passed by a decent crowd a week or so ago all staring and oohing and aahhing and they were otter watching. Never seen them myself but with my daily walks it’s only a matter of time, We’ve also got salmon and sea trout running the river even to the extent where we have two specially constructed fish passes where they can negotiate the weir.
Even in Lock down hell there’s always something to brighten the spirits 🙂

362414 ▶▶ Fiona Walker, replying to Harry hopkins, 6, #142 of 1795 🔗

Pretty similar story further down the Wharfe here in Wetherby, must be something in the water. Everyone is walking around with takeaway coffee, drinking it by the river, in the town square etc. It’s the only entertainment to be honest but people are giving it a go.

362540 ▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #143 of 1795 🔗

Great oop north. Lewes is like the Marie Celeste. They’re all hiding below decks reading their Guardians. Or Observers.

362565 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #144 of 1795 🔗

WTG Otley!!

362599 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Harry hopkins, 2, #145 of 1795 🔗

The people of Otley do seem to like getting out and about. I remember when the Tour de France started in Yorkshire a few years ago and the crowds in the town were absolutely heaving when the cyclists came – I doubt many (apart from my dad who dragged us along to the event!) were particular cycling fans!

362757 ▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to nocheesegromit, 1, #146 of 1795 🔗

I was one of them and I’m not a cycling fan!

363290 ▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #147 of 1795 🔗

Boris should go for a skate on the Thames.

361512 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 69, #148 of 1795 🔗


Despite being retired, this is what I’ve found to be one of the most distressing consequences of the madness foisted on us by affluent, securely placed movers and shakers: the sheer wanton devastation wreaked on the lives of the young, who bear one of the heaviest burdens.

Many youngsters were already facing significant challenges before lockdowns materialised: mickey mouse degree courses, lack of decent secure employment opportunities, student loans, social media distortions and propaganda, porn creep resulting in normalisation of violent and coercive sexual demands, lack of apprenticeships lack of affordable housing.

I get really upset about this, as I watch future generations’ hopes and prospects sacrificed on the altar of the Safety Cult.

361516 ▶▶ Annie, replying to wendyk, 37, #149 of 1795 🔗

When I was young, somewhere back in the Neolithic, young people were expected to be headstrong, rebellious and insubordinate. I was considered weird at university because I preferred peaceful study to going on demos.

Times have changed.

361528 ▶▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to Annie, 12, #150 of 1795 🔗

I disagree I actually think the opposite is true, since the 50s young people have lost respect for the experience of its older generation.

Part of the problem is because youth has been over indulged with privilege & wealth & perhaps to much freedom to dismiss or over rule traditional cultural values.

362023 ▶▶▶▶ Jo Dominich, replying to Anti_socialist, 9, #151 of 1795 🔗

Not sure I agree actually. I don’t think young people have lost any respect for the older generation. What I think they are fighting against is what I call the demonisation of youth and young people. Headlines in the MSM have referred to them as ‘scum’, ‘yobs’ and other such attributions. The education system has you labelled very early on. If a Teacher doesn’t like you, that’s it. You will never, whatever you do that is good or any achievements gained, you will never escape the label education has given you (Jimmy Boyle has written quite lucidly about this). There are many parents out there that are actually quite contemptuous of their children, many children are subjected to what I would call emotional abuse in that everything they do is wrong. Just look around you every day I see parent’s really shouting at their children in the street (even when they aren’t doing anything at all), in supermarkets and out and about. It’s not just once a day or once a week, it is a bigger problem than you think if you look around you.

I think our young people are actually more moral and more sensible than some of their adult counterparts. They are being slowly demonised and now this assault on their education has shown how little regard our society has for them. They are expendable yobs as far as the MSM are concerned. They are not valued as members of society (I appreciate of course there are many many brilliant parents here and out there that truly value their children).

I can tell you from a long career in working with children and families that the level of emotional abuse, neglect, physical abuse is getting worse every year and it is the children and young people that bear the worst of the consequences. People would be shocked at how children and young people are treated and it is a big problem, not a small one. For me, emotional abuse is devastating and leaves the longest lasting scars because it gets deep into the psyche.

362116 ▶▶▶▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to Jo Dominich, 2, #152 of 1795 🔗

You’re comparing the last 70 years with historical cultures, its like comparing apples & oranges.

You sound perhaps a little bias but I suspect there is something in what you say about the present.

My point being as you’ve highlighted there’s a growing division between generations there’s prejudices on both sides. Pre 1900s the younger generation accepted they had to earn respect of their elders & willingly gave respect to the experience of their elders, age was actually a hierarchy & youth had to go through a right of passage.

It’s a different world today young peoples expectations are higher in many respects things are to easily obtained with little effort. That’s not to say life is better now, modern living comes with a lot of stress & anxiety. Historically people didn’t have the luxury of worrying about their identity.

362163 ▶▶▶▶▶ jos, replying to Jo Dominich, 1, #153 of 1795 🔗

Online abuse of the young is becoming even more prevalent and not coincidental in what is going on imo

362384 ▶▶▶▶▶ Woden, replying to Jo Dominich, 1, #154 of 1795 🔗

I see a lot of scepticism in the young, and they will challenge the globalist reset bollox in innovative and outside the box ideas.. remember the 60’s?

362577 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Woden, 1, #155 of 1795 🔗

They UK young didn’t have tv in the 60s. No squealy infanticising series like “Friends”. They hung about outside and talked to each other.

363299 ▶▶▶▶▶ Elisabeth, replying to Jo Dominich, #156 of 1795 🔗

That isn’t a new thing. I grew up with all sorts of emotional abuse and I’m over 50, and my husband was neglected and beaten frequently

361619 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Annie, 4, #157 of 1795 🔗

I had it easy, the previous generation of teenagers had done my revolting for me and I was able to wallow in the privilege of youth with ease.

362137 ▶▶▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to karenovirus, 2, #158 of 1795 🔗

Eric Hobsbawm wrote (“Age of Extremes: The Short Twentieth Century”) that the generation gap between the children of the 1960s and their parents had little if any historical parallel, or words to that effect. In his view, obvs.

361523 ▶▶ danny, replying to wendyk, 45, #159 of 1795 🔗

Mental health experts in general have really shocked me in their silence on this issue. To a certain extent, it should be no surprise that loons like Ferguson push their agenda of total lockdown and dreams of 0% infections, because that is their myopic obsession.
But why have psychiatrists and others in that field said nothing about their speciality, and deferred to the “science” instead of fighting their corner? Today I see that a TV shrink who has been doing just that, alone, has now been fired for daring to speak up. Where are the rest? Shameful.

361549 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to danny, 13, #160 of 1795 🔗

Quite agree; a virtual omerta now seems to protect covid/ lockdown orthodoxy.

361579 ▶▶▶▶ TheClone, replying to wendyk, 11, #161 of 1795 🔗

Modern omerta = PC

361650 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to TheClone, 12, #162 of 1795 🔗

Yes; it’s significant that as the Woke-left- complex insists on the demolition of all hitherto commonly accepted social, biological, national and rational norms, they simultaneously erect increasingly draconian, bewildering and frankly sinister linguistic barriers.

So, open borders, biological fact little more than an oppressive social construct, demolition of neighbourhoods, livelihoods and street architecture all sanctioned if done in the name of whichever cause happens to be at SJW poll position, accompanied by impromptu cancellation of standard vernacular usage and persecution of dissenting voices by means of cancellation, pile ons and no platforming.

Now the shrill demands for the indefinite continuation of stringent and crushing lockdown measures, bullying of lockdown protesters and the implicit and complicit support of the MSM, means that we are being manipulated by a thoroughly dystopian orthodoxy; a greedy cult .

361672 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to wendyk, 4, #163 of 1795 🔗

The pro active destruction elements all stem from the Frankfurt School which thinking has been in place since the 1930s.
Founded in Frankfurt but fled to the USA because Hitler wasn’t too keen.

361749 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to karenovirus, 1, #164 of 1795 🔗

I’ve read a few articles about them recently; it’s ironic that they fled Hitler’s persecution only to propound a form of creative destruction which has now found a way to flourish.

362177 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ jos, replying to wendyk, 3, #165 of 1795 🔗

Are they satanists? It’s strange that the company Rishi Sunak owns is called Theleme

362179 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ jos, replying to jos, 2, #166 of 1795 🔗

Sounds like the Satanic occult philosophy Thelema

361830 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JanMasarykMunich, replying to wendyk, 8, #167 of 1795 🔗

I read recently that the founder of Websters Dictionary warned of the danger that the US constitution would not be destroyed by violence (openly) but rather dismantled linguistically, gradually.

Certainly redefinitions of terms are playing a crucial role everywhere now (racism, pandemic, herd immunity, and many more)

362172 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ jos, replying to wendyk, 9, #168 of 1795 🔗

You’re right but why? I can’t understand what would motivate a billionaire to destroy all joy in the world for more money – they don’t need more as they could barely spend in one lifetime what they already have.. something that lockdown has taught me is that apart from paying bills all I need is food and freedom. I don’t care if I never shop for anything ever again, even if I never get to travel abroad again.. I just want to be able to go out and see a world in which freedom has replaced fear and people smiling, laughing, hugging each other – not much to ask, is it?

362304 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jez Hewitt, replying to jos, 6, #169 of 1795 🔗

Because it’s not about money, it’s about resources. Money will soon be extinct. A new value system is on its way (once they’ve successfully wrecked the current one).

363295 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to jos, #170 of 1795 🔗

Apparently it is.

363293 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to wendyk, #171 of 1795 🔗

The SJW-Woke have rewritten Mao’s Little Red Book.

361693 ▶▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to danny, 14, #172 of 1795 🔗

I think its because almost all the mental health and counselling ‘industry’ has been taken over by the woke PC brigade who have all revelled in lockdown for various reasons. I am afraid ideology trumps any alleged concern for the victims. My partner is a counsellor with 30 years experience but operates independently of the ‘industry’ for that reason. She thinks they are all shockingly compromised.

361929 ▶▶▶▶ alw, replying to Boris Bullshit, 5, #173 of 1795 🔗

Just look at what has happened at the Tavistock. Tells you all you need to know.

363296 ▶▶▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to alw, #174 of 1795 🔗

What about the Tavistock?

361814 ▶▶▶ JanMasarykMunich, replying to danny, 11, #175 of 1795 🔗

I think that is the point. They are silent because they are afraid of being fired. The (self-)censorship is the problem.

Personally, I reckon we (Western Europe now) are possibly in a worse state than, say, Czechoslovakia in 1980s. Very few people were actually in prison (Havel and a handful of others, sporadically). It was quite sufficient that people were afraid of losing their jobs/privileges. The advantage of 1980s CzS was that hardly anyone actually believed the state propaganda. Whereas now…

361524 ▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to wendyk, 32, #176 of 1795 🔗

I’m afraid it is & always has been a class war, lockdowns are for the protection of entitled liberal middle class, whilst invariably the essential workers keeping the country from sinking take all the risks, these will be the people hardest by lockdown consequences .

Its the same with the scandalous housing crisis in the UK privileged liberal middle class with 2nd & 3rd homes lobby government to protect the property marketing leaving the majority working class living in unaffordable concrete rabbit hutches (If they’re lucky).

The story is the same in every part of modern life, entitled middle class driving the political narrative to protect their privileges. Identity politics & deviant social conduct are both a distraction from real life issues & a covert attack on traditional conservative values notably Christian values & nuclear family.

I’m neither religious, conservative or have children but still respect & value our countries cultural traditions.

361546 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Anti_socialist, 27, #177 of 1795 🔗

Exactly; I’m the same: childless, atheist but increasingly concerned at the way our traditions, and wisdom, restraint, decency and rationality have been abandoned.

361548 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Anti_socialist, 27, #178 of 1795 🔗

You allude to so much of the sickness of today’s UK, and wider Western society. And this has been a quarter of a century or more in the brewing. The middle class and liberal elites have got wealthier and wealthier (and stupider and stupider), whilst vast swathes of society have been left behind.

I posted yesterday about how every so often societies have to re-invent themselves, cast off the old putrid worn-out practices, and move on. But such transitions are almost never painless – witness civil wars or, on a smaller scale, the UK in the late 70s/early 80s.

Maybe we’re going through such a transition now and things will come out better in the end, and this is a sort of crucifixion and rebirth – like the American Civil War or the English Civil Wars. Or maybe as a society we’re going under – although if it is I’m not going down with it.

I’m what you might call middle class (only have one home though), and am a natural and instinctive conservative – but what I’ve seen over the last years of the ‘entitled liberal middle class’ enriching themselves at the expense of the working classes (for want of a better expression) makes me sick. One way or another, it has to stop.

361573 ▶▶▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to TJN, 4, #179 of 1795 🔗

Don’t take me wrong, Colonialist Christian Conservatives have historical wrongs to answer for, some issues raised by today’s post modernist liberal left are valid lessons we should learn from! I disagree with their methods addressing them.

Obviously not all middle class liberals are nihilistic hypocrites! I consider myself a classic liberal, liberty at the core of my principles.

But when having a debate you unfortunately are required to use blanket terms to describe where things are going wrong, in general terms it is the inequity of wealth & privileged influence (who you know, not what you know) of the middle class, that drives the political narrative.

361624 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Anti_socialist, 3, #180 of 1795 🔗

Where did the chorus of outrage come when G. Brown tried to abolish the 50p income tax rate ( to the detriment of the lowest paid) ?

Middle England.

361637 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Anti_socialist, 21, #181 of 1795 🔗

I think I may have been a Whig in a bygone life and have always believed that Liberty is the breathe of life.

I’m politically homeless now – well not exactly: I now believe in the destruction of the Conservative Party. Britain needs an actual conservative party, and the only way to achieve that is to get rid of the current imposters. I say that as a former Conservative voter.

Our society has been going very wrong for a long time now, and the required re-balance – necessitating as it does the confrontation with and dismantling of embedded self-interest – isn’t going to be painless.

A sort of Great Reset, but not how the current perpetrators envisage it.

361681 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to TJN, 12, #182 of 1795 🔗

I’m with you on this, I have no real political allegiance to any party. The Tories are all just neo-liberal globalists, labour neo-liberal left globalists, the Lib Dems, illiberal anti-democrats, SNP, pure evil etc etc.

We’re headed for a reimagined capitalist communist tyranny a.k.a. China.

363298 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to Anti_socialist, #183 of 1795 🔗

We aren’t going to let that happen. Don’t give up the fight.

361687 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to TJN, 2, #184 of 1795 🔗

🌟 🌟 🌟

361811 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Bella Donna, #185 of 1795 🔗

Had to ask Mrs TJN what that meant, but it seems good … Ta.

361893 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to TJN, 2, #186 of 1795 🔗

It looks soviet related LOL

362251 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to TJN, 4, #187 of 1795 🔗

I heard rumours of a battle behind the scenes of a “war for the soul of the Great Reset”. That there were two groups battling it out for the same sort of reset, but one would be libertarian, the other would be dictatorial.

If true, I really hope the right one wins.

363300 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to RichardJames, #188 of 1795 🔗

Not me. I hope that they both fall on their faces. I don’t to be reset by anyone, no matter what their politics.

363297 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to TJN, 1, #189 of 1795 🔗

Propose a new Great Reset. Good idea. The complete opposite of Schwab’s.

361653 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Anti_socialist, 22, #190 of 1795 🔗

Well said. It’s the cosy middle classes who are benefiting from all of this – pampered and cosseted all while being served by an army of low paid workers who are keeping the engines stoked.

They think they’re saving lives and doing good but in reality perpetuating this evil and actually are the government’s most vocal enforcers.

They’re OK for now but they shouldn’t get too complacent as the day of reckoning will also come for them.

I suggest they read up on what happened to their counterparts in France after WW2 and Germany after reunification. Not to mention a basics economics textbook.

Hint: it won’t end well for them.

361700 ▶▶▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to Bart Simpson, 35, #191 of 1795 🔗

I know a road which is a kind of mini Hampstead stuffed with the woke liberal middle classes. They have posters in their windows saying things like ‘staying home for Britain’ and ‘you should be at home not reading this poster’. Since when has being a lazy bastard sat on your arse been something to get all smug and self satisfied about? Of course they are quite happy for the lower orders to work in food processing and delivery to keep them going. I wonder how long they would support lockdown if it actually applied to everyone including their food suppliers.

361752 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Boris Bullshit, 19, #192 of 1795 🔗

It’s the smugness and entitlement which I cannot abide.

361786 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to wendyk, 2, #193 of 1795 🔗

It’s that sense of entitlement that gives them the erroneous belief they hold the moral high ground are always right, It’s what facilitates things like pandemic lockdowns.

Their entitled attitude is why stuff like trump & brexit happen. Who would vote for a narcasist like trump who really only puts trump first or brexiters who really are only interested in enriching themselves, otherwise.

362520 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Boris Bullshit, 3, #194 of 1795 🔗

I’ve encountered neighbourhoods like that during my daily exercise. The “Staying Home for Britain” poster wants to make me puke.

As Mr Bart has suggested, perhaps those who are so keen on lockdowns would be happy to be either taxed twice or 100% to support those who have been impacted financially, medically and psychologically by what they call for.

After all we’re all in this together right?

361518 nickbowes, replying to nickbowes, 19, #195 of 1795 🔗

Over 18 s to be vaccinated by end of June says the Gates owned Sunday Telegraph today. They really really really want us all to take this vaccine!

361526 ▶▶ sceptic_teacher, replying to nickbowes, 30, #196 of 1795 🔗

Well, I won’t be taking it.

361527 ▶▶▶ nickbowes, replying to sceptic_teacher, 18, #197 of 1795 🔗

Neither are 40% of LA Fire fighters apparently.

361611 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to nickbowes, 5, #198 of 1795 🔗

They of all people will know about risk assessment.

361604 ▶▶▶ Annie, replying to sceptic_teacher, 4, #199 of 1795 🔗

Hi there! Are you actually a teacher? Could you give us some info about what has been happening?

361529 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to nickbowes, 8, #200 of 1795 🔗

If we can extrapolate from what is happening in Norway, the recipients (at least those in the most vulnerable category) of the vaccine have a one in a thousand chance of dying. One would have thought this would have given the authorities pause for thought and suggested to them that it might be better to observe standard practices for the testing of vaccines and health products so as to ensure safety.

361576 ▶▶▶ TheClone, replying to Steve Hayes, 9, #201 of 1795 🔗

You are not allowed to extrapolate – only SAGE can do it for their modelling. Exterminate!

361613 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Steve Hayes, 5, #202 of 1795 🔗

They must be an unhealthy lot those Norwegians, none of our 2 million vaccinees have died yet, apparently.

363137 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to karenovirus, #203 of 1795 🔗

Well our lot would say that, wouldn’t they?

361679 ▶▶▶ Janette, replying to Steve Hayes, 7, #204 of 1795 🔗

Yes. There is no way I am taking it

361899 ▶▶▶▶ Bill H, replying to Janette, 7, #205 of 1795 🔗

Totally anecdotal.

Close friend of friend, late sixties, healthy.

Had the vaccine. Five days later, he died.

363138 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Bill H, #206 of 1795 🔗

Just a unfortunate coincidence, we know they’ll be told.

361530 ▶▶ JHUNTZ, replying to nickbowes, 33, #207 of 1795 🔗

It’s just three weeks to flatten the curve….

“Now you are going to need either your lab results or vaccination data to get on an airplane, to go to school, go to work, real life, non-health-care use cases,” Meyer said. “And it needs to be in a standard form so when you’re presenting it, people actually understand, ‘Oh, it was the Pfizer vaccine that you got.’”

Not saying this guy will have his way but how the fuck did we get here?

361533 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to JHUNTZ, 22, #208 of 1795 🔗

By being weak as shit.

361541 ▶▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to JHUNTZ, 16, #209 of 1795 🔗

Socialism, it’ll end up as pesudo-communism, like China’s capitalist corporate mafia regime.

363302 ▶▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to Anti_socialist, #210 of 1795 🔗

Chinese Mafia.

361550 ▶▶▶ Liewe, replying to JHUNTZ, 20, #211 of 1795 🔗

The vaccine passport movement is going to tie itself into knots. Are all vaccines equal. What are the powers that be going to do with people using the Russian/Indian/GodKnowsWhat vaccine if it’s not registered in your country?

Are they going to say: so sorry, only Pfizer, Morderna, Astra vaccines allowed? Are people with a history of severe allergic reactions to vaccines going to be banned from travel? Third world countries flight bans as they can’t afford to vaccinate their populations?

These vaccine passport pushers have their work cut out for them.

361558 ▶▶▶▶ JHUNTZ, replying to Liewe, 16, #212 of 1795 🔗

Any vaccinne will be accepted. Those with severe allergies won’t be exempt. As we have seen they couldn’t care less about exemptions for masks on planes. I think the third world will be able to vaccinate as the banks will lend them the money. Those that can’t get vaxxed tough luck. These creeps aren’t doing this for humanitarian reasons.

363220 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to JHUNTZ, #213 of 1795 🔗

“These creeps aren’t doing this for humanitarian reasons.”

Indeed, it’s just the opposite.

361616 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Liewe, 13, #214 of 1795 🔗

I think part of the plan is to get The West to pay for vaccinating the Third World which will be a massive transfer of wealth not to them but to Bill and Melinda.

363226 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to karenovirus, #215 of 1795 🔗

That’s only part of the plan. Gates was brought as a eugenicist and is a self confessed depopulator. This is his once in a lifetime engineered opportunity.

363304 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to Rowan, #216 of 1795 🔗

Engineer Bill.

363303 ▶▶▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to karenovirus, #217 of 1795 🔗

They don’t need the money.

361654 ▶▶▶ jb12, replying to JHUNTZ, 11, #218 of 1795 🔗

By ignoring the clear indications that this was the destination all along.

361539 ▶▶ Marialta, replying to nickbowes, 2, #219 of 1795 🔗

Question: What are the Vaccine makers stating about the length of time their products give protection against symptoms? Is it 5 months or 8 months? I want to know how often they recommend boosters. It’s being pushed as a silver bullet /one off jab.

361572 ▶▶▶ sophie123, replying to Marialta, 7, #220 of 1795 🔗

Nothing. Because they can’t possibly know.

361692 ▶▶▶▶ Felice, replying to sophie123, 6, #221 of 1795 🔗

One angle I never see discussed, is the potential for the vaccine to be less than effective at stopping transmission. The astra jab is only 60% effective, apparently. So will those who have had the astra jab be second class citizens in the new vaccination order, with their jab not being acceptable?

361742 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cotton Wool, replying to Felice, 8, #222 of 1795 🔗

Where is the data for 60%? Everything I have read says vaccines have not yet been shown to stop transmission.

361869 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JanMasarykMunich, replying to Cotton Wool, 2, #223 of 1795 🔗

Exactly. How on earth are they actualy measuring this?

363233 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Felice, #224 of 1795 🔗

This has been discussed at length and there is no evidence as yet that they will have any effect on transmission or that they will save lives, though there are strong indications that the vaccines will actually cost lives, or to be rather more blunt they will kill people. Take no notice of the claimed effectiveness, that is simply statistical sleight of hand.

363305 ▶▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to sophie123, #225 of 1795 🔗

Give them a few more years.

361684 ▶▶▶ Janette, replying to Marialta, 5, #226 of 1795 🔗

Yeah so what’s the point. There is a lot of information out there advising this is a human experiment and they don’t know what the long term side affects are.

362385 ▶▶▶▶ Ken Garoo, replying to Janette, 1, #227 of 1795 🔗

The point is lots of money for Big Pharma. Plus the mRNA delivery mechanism is a dry run for its use on all medicine. These medicines can then be described as ‘personalised’ and hence untestable. That will allow them to skip the expensive Phase II and III testing. Even without formal legal immunity, there will be no possibility of class actions against them, only individual actions, which can easily be ignored (effectively).

361545 ▶▶ ElizaP, replying to nickbowes, 10, #228 of 1795 🔗

Don’t they just? All that vaccine passport talk is definitely worrying. It’s a case of “Over my dead body” would I ever take that vaccine – and I mean that quite literally (just checked my supplies this morning – to ensure I’m clear where I have two portable barbecues to use indoors if need be and got a decent carbon monoxide detector for checking purposes of ppm level).

361682 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to ElizaP, 3, #229 of 1795 🔗

You’re planning to roast yourself on a barbecue? Why? And at that point, why care about carbon monoxide?

361882 ▶▶▶ JanMasarykMunich, replying to ElizaP, 3, #230 of 1795 🔗

Posting again, for those who have not seen it yet. Petition against ‘vaccine’ discrimination.


362016 ▶▶▶ JanMasarykMunich, replying to ElizaP, 4, #231 of 1795 🔗


Please don’t do that. I will be resisting until the last moment too, but even if the ‘Vaccine’ is eventually forced on us, we can still keep fighting to get rid of it.

I think there will be enough resistance to make it impossible to enforce it. But it is going to be a struggle.

362161 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to JanMasarykMunich, 3, #232 of 1795 🔗

If the vaccine is forced unto us, there will be no point fighting to get rid of it. The deed will have been done.

363237 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Ewan Duffy, #233 of 1795 🔗

Yes that is the way it will be. Most people seem blissfully unaware that the Covid event, as a whole and the vaccines in particular, is about genocide.

361657 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to nickbowes, 22, #234 of 1795 🔗

Nope. Why should I for something with a 99.98% survival rate?

361667 ▶▶▶ Janette, replying to Bart Simpson, 11, #235 of 1795 🔗

Exactly. I wonder why they are so desperate for everyone to have it???

361823 ▶▶▶▶ penelope pitstop, replying to Janette, 6, #236 of 1795 🔗

hmmmm i wonder that too – they seem to have lost the plot and sense of perspective on all this. By all means vaxx the elderly/vulnerable and allow the rest to carry on. But i fear more sinister undertones.

363240 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Janette, #237 of 1795 🔗

Because the vaccines are very likely intentionally harmful. The Covid event has been engineered to bring about a massive reduction of global population and this will be achieved through vaccination.

362244 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #238 of 1795 🔗

Money; the huge, never-ending profits from vaccinations. Risk-free for all involved except those vaccinated.

363245 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to RichardJames, #239 of 1795 🔗

It’s much worse than that. It’s about depopulation through vaccination.

361704 ▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to nickbowes, 10, #240 of 1795 🔗

They can get f_____ !

361723 ▶▶▶ Cotton Wool, replying to Boris Bullshit, 4, #241 of 1795 🔗

My thoughts exactly

362237 ▶▶ RichardJames, replying to nickbowes, 1, #242 of 1795 🔗

Excellent. The more people that take this vaccine, the less likely it is that they will attempt to force me to have it.

363251 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to RichardJames, #243 of 1795 🔗

The vaccinated will begin to die off as the months go by, so it would become clear that the unvaccinated have not been affected similarly affected. On this basis you can be very sure, that they will do everything that is possible to jab everyone of us with their poison. Accordingly I would not exclude the bastards making vaccination compulsory.

363301 ▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to nickbowes, #244 of 1795 🔗

Tell the Telegraph to buzz off.

361525 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #245 of 1795 🔗

The US State Department factsheet would be more accurately labelled as a speculation sheet. The production of this making stuff up and pretending it is serious factual material of substantial foreign and domestic policy importance as the current president is about to leave office is not unprecedented. In fact, it is precisely what the previous president did in order to cause his successor serious problems, hamper his foreign policy, and undermine his legitimacy. That was of course the infamous 6 January 2017 intelligence report that pretended that Russia had stolen the election. It was amateurish and absurd, but nonetheless effective for that. https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf The State Department factsheet looks like nothing so much as a copy of the Obama administration’s closing play, which was so effective. Whilst I doubt the State Department factsheet will have anything like the same damaging impact, it cannot but harm relations with China, which is in no one’s interests.

361542 ▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #246 of 1795 🔗

Not made up this is the CCP Virus and the US authorities have obtained lot’s of information from China to strongly suggest what happened. Biden will take the China coin as he always had whatever.

361571 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to nottingham69, 6, #247 of 1795 🔗

If they were planning to drop a bombshell by releasing that information, they’ve failed. The document they’ve released is remarkably weak – barely even speculative. “ Today’s revelations just scratch the surface of what is still hidden about COVID-19’s origin in China.” Scratch the surface of what is still hidden? Seriously? What’s the point?

361703 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Steve Hayes, 15, #248 of 1795 🔗

There is an easy explanation for the rather bland speculation sheet.US is part of the problem.Everything points to a lab leak from an incompetent lab doing US sponsored research outsourced from the US military backed corona virus research. Most of the US scientists involved in the UN investigation are themselves involved in this highly unethical work on coronaviruses.They have investigated bat corona viruses more akin to a person looking at a gas leak with a lightened match.
China and US are both responsible for this.MSM will do everything to stop this but an avalanche of infornation is finally slipping trough.

362118 ▶▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to swedenborg, 5, #249 of 1795 🔗

Exactly. Uncle Sam subsidises the Wuhan lab (and who knows what else?) I remain to be convinced that the U.S. Deep State isn’t in some way complicit in this business.

362403 ▶▶▶ Ken Garoo, replying to swedenborg, 1, #250 of 1795 🔗

Both the Russians and Chinese suspected that might be a possibility. They have discounted it in this case, but have embarked on a programme of building large isolation hospitals ‘just in case’.

Here is a map of countries hosting one or more DTRA labs.


There are now 11 individual labs in Ukraine alone.


It is suprisingly common for new outbreaks of disease to occur in close proximity to the labs, especially in Africa.

The US has been collecting ‘Chinese’ and ‘Russian’ DNA for some time now. Is the mass testing for covid cover for another DNA grab?

363255 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Ken Garoo, #251 of 1795 🔗

Outbreaks of respiratory infections seem fairly common in the Fort Detrick area.

361531 Fingerache Philip, replying to Fingerache Philip, 24, #252 of 1795 🔗

News items in the Stourbridge news: Local police chief who looked all of 35 warned people if they attended an anti lockdown protest in Birmingham that, they “could be arrested” and on another page: “Can you sack an anti vaxer”.
Land of hope and glory, eh?

361543 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Fingerache Philip, 17, #253 of 1795 🔗

Unless there has been a big change with the latest Coronavirus regs, these regs give little by way of powers or arrest. With many of the previous demos people have been temporarily arrested to enable their details to be taken they are then un-arrested and released. If you are issued with a Fixed Penalty Notice, you can send it back and demand a court case at which point it mostly disappears into the CPS black hole.
The Police are acting as if these Coronavirus regs give them sweeping powers when they do not really do this, I suspect that one reason we are seeing so many of these Fixed Penalty Notices not coming to court if they are rejected is that if they came to court and then failed to make a prosecution the Police could be warned to back off, as it is they can scare people with FPNs like a Mafia protection racket.

362054 ▶▶▶ iansn, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #254 of 1795 🔗

nothing to do with the police accidentally deleting all those records the other day then

362230 ▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to iansn, 2, #255 of 1795 🔗

Yes; such IT incompetence couldn’t have happened to a nicer bunch!

362326 ▶▶▶▶▶ BJJ, replying to RichardJames, 2, #256 of 1795 🔗

It is most certainly a lie. It is impossible that such records are not routinely backed up. There should be a criminal investigation done by the … sorry forget it.

361587 ▶▶ Hoppy Uniatz, replying to Fingerache Philip, 19, #257 of 1795 🔗

Meh, I got arrested on 28th November, plod has done nothing since. Bring it on.

361607 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 10, #258 of 1795 🔗

Good for you, I have been arrested 4 or 5 times over the years, it is no great deal especially when innocent on all occasions.
Co-operate with the duty sergeant but nobody else until you see the duty Solicitor.

361709 ▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to Fingerache Philip, 5, #259 of 1795 🔗

Did he say they would be arrested if they attended a BLM protest by any chance?

361535 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 16, #260 of 1795 🔗

Claims relating to ill effects of the virus on children appear to have originated, in the main, from members of public sector trade unions.

Until health and education are removed from the stifling effects of public sector bureaucracy, incompetent public sector management, ownership, this country will continue, ever more impoverished, sclerotic, unfree, paranoid and illiberal, on down this erratic and embarrassing path; a socialist democratic state pontificating mawkish special pleading polemics through the state broadcaster to an increasingly uninterested world.

361715 ▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to Tim Bidie, 10, #261 of 1795 🔗

Most modern British state institutions are now unfit for purpose. Add that to the increasingly woke corporations and it all amounts to a wonderful country to live in!

361540 Tom Blackburn, 3, #262 of 1795 🔗

Blackpool Gazette: Blackpool business group’s delight over Supreme Court insurance win.

361544 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #263 of 1795 🔗

The Spectator: Francois Balloux: ‘Proper investigation’ into Covid’s origins is needed | SpectatorTV.

361562 ▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to Tom Blackburn, 23, #264 of 1795 🔗

A straw man, covid didn’t cause this shit show, politicians did.

We need a free, fair, independent, impartial, objective, public inquiry, but I wont hold my breath in hope, hope is just delayed disappointment.

361605 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Anti_socialist, 20, #265 of 1795 🔗

Agreed, whether Covid is accidental, deliberate or natural is largely beside the point.
It is the reaction to it that is the problem.

362431 ▶▶▶▶ Ken Garoo, replying to karenovirus, 2, #266 of 1795 🔗

It has always been purely political, first to bash China for its mishandling of the outbreak whilst it was largely in China, then as excuse for long planned political action (Dark Winter, etc) once it appeared in the west. The western politicals (the real ones not the selected puppets elected in ‘free and fair’ elections) have been trying for several years (zika, 2009 flu, etc) but the outbreaks failed to gain traction.

361694 ▶▶▶ Janette, replying to Anti_socialist, 6, #267 of 1795 🔗

Definitely and the sooner the better

362428 ▶▶▶ Ken Garoo, replying to Anti_socialist, 1, #268 of 1795 🔗

Minutes from NERVTAG, the group that provides ‘the science’ for SAGE (and home to the Mad Modeller) indicate they are expecting a public enquiry so suitable ‘guidance’ documentation has been provided to members. The Public Inquiry will be of very limited and precisely targetted remit, led by a ‘Safe Pair of Hands’.

Executive summary preview:

Mistakes were made. Lessons have been learned. It is time to move on.

You read it here first.

361552 NorthumbrianNomad, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 40, #269 of 1795 🔗

I will never live in Britain again.

If I could walk into an office and obtain a passport from any one of about 80 other countries, I would do it today. As it is, once I no longer have any responsibilities there, I will be out as soon as I can sell up and escape with as much of the cash as the fucking Treasury allows me to keep. There are too many people in Britain that I will never be able to look at or speak civilly to, let alone forgive.

As the Simon Hoare tweet makes abundantly clear, I am now an enemy of the state, and an enemy of the people. And I’m proud of it.

361556 ▶▶ JHUNTZ, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 12, #270 of 1795 🔗

I am looking at any means for a passport to a ‘free’ country. Unfortunately this is incredibly limited at the moment. Brexit couldn’t have came at a worse time or i’d be trying Sweden.

361561 ▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 7, #271 of 1795 🔗

But where would you go that’s any better?

361565 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Anti_socialist, 8, #272 of 1795 🔗


361643 ▶▶▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to Tim Bidie, 6, #273 of 1795 🔗

Despite all that’s happening in the US, i’ve always liked the idea of southern states, its bloody warmer & in past times greater freedom.

Perhaps the Australian outback living like a hermit, you’d have to be, to tolerate in Oz’s neo-liberal political ideology.

For some reason i’ve always fancied living in a desert.

361652 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Anti_socialist, 5, #274 of 1795 🔗

You are in a culture desert right now.
Local buses are still carrying adverts for the local rep theatre pantomime, December 18th to Jan 15

‘Book In Bubbles’.

361720 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to karenovirus, 4, #275 of 1795 🔗

‘Book in bollocks’!

362049 ▶▶▶▶ JanMasarykMunich, replying to Tim Bidie, 2, #276 of 1795 🔗

Independent Texas, I guess you mean.

361566 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Anti_socialist, 25, #277 of 1795 🔗

Thailand or the Philippines for the rest of my life would be preferable, not because the governments are any better, but because the populace is different. It’s the pointless belligerence that gets me. People here (Thailand) are bored and irritated by the restrictions but they’re not CHANGED by this. The weird, shrieky extremism in Britain, exemplified by Hoare’s tweet, is something else.

361583 ▶▶▶▶ JHUNTZ, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 11, #278 of 1795 🔗

Have they been subjected to the same level of propaganda though? I feel this is just an inherint flaw in the human nature to be extremely gullible and led by fear.

361623 ▶▶▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to JHUNTZ, 14, #279 of 1795 🔗

I certainly do not think that Thailand has been subjected to anything like the same onslaught as was planned and executed in the UK. I don’t know if such an onslaught would have worked if they’d tried it. As I have said before on here, having had more governments than Italy since WW2 and more military coups than many an African nation, the Thais have learned to live between the lines of the rubbish the state spews at them. This can be seen in the simple fact of how normal and peaceful it always seems to be here. My coronazealot former friend in Australia was bombarding me with anxious messages a few months ago, “Are you going to get out?” I honestly had no idea what she was talking about. Turns out there was another rash of anti-government demonstrations here. Nobody batted an eyelid. People are more interested in what to have for lunch.

361661 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JHUNTZ, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 22, #280 of 1795 🔗

It does seem like we in the UK have been blessed with too much peace. We have a naive population that generally believe their government has their best interests at heart.

361645 ▶▶▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 7, #281 of 1795 🔗

British are a nation of serfs always have been, we still worship monarchy ffs. (yes i know Thailand has royalty)

361660 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Anti_socialist, 10, #282 of 1795 🔗

I’ve always liked the idea of knowing who is going to be head of state for the foreseeable future, tends towards stability.
If Blair had installed a republic we might still be labouring under President For Life John Prescott.

361758 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to karenovirus, 6, #283 of 1795 🔗

Even dictatorship has its attractions, Saddam created stability LOL, Gaddafi gave everyone a free house LOL! Putin is fighting the good fight against the liberal agenda LOL.

But to be honest i value freedom over security, but a republic constitution can provide both as long as politicians honour the constitution.

362221 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Anti_socialist, 3, #284 of 1795 🔗

Gaddhafi was removed because he wouldn’t institute a Central Bank. Google pictures of Libya before and after his toppling. The place was almost a paradise (as long as you kept out of politics).

Even Saddam’s Iraq was better than the theocracy/chaos that now exists. Likewise the experiences of women in Iran under the Shah, compared with now.

362438 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ken Garoo, replying to RichardJames, 1, #285 of 1795 🔗

“Likewise the experiences of women in Iran under the Shah, compared with now.”

I have been to Iran, and the women are DDG. There are regulations on clothing styles, including for men, but they know how to exploit them with devastating effect. In Tehran, there are shops selling women’s clothing of styles that would have any western father saying ‘you are not going out dressed like that!’

Under the Shah, people also had to contend with the CIA-trained Savak.

361641 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Anti_socialist, 7, #286 of 1795 🔗

A customer suggested Zanzibar when we were discusssing countries to escape to.

361978 ▶▶▶ Jo Dominich, replying to Anti_socialist, 1, #287 of 1795 🔗

Latin America, Tanzania and other african nations.

362420 ▶▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Jo Dominich, 2, #288 of 1795 🔗

Yes – in all seriousness, suddenly the expression “failed state” begins to sound attractive.

361602 ▶▶ Annie, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 10, #289 of 1795 🔗

Time we started looking out for a commodious island as the sceptics’ New World.
They do exist.

361627 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Annie, 11, #290 of 1795 🔗

Shetland. Once Scotland splits from the UK, Shetland will split from Scotland, and it’ll become a nice, rich, sane little Celto-Scandinavian paradise. That’s the escape route. I’d love a Shetland passport.

361651 ▶▶▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 3, #291 of 1795 🔗

Its got no trees, its a damp woolly maggot ridden desert.

361834 ▶▶▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Anti_socialist, 3, #292 of 1795 🔗

It speaks highly of you.

361868 ▶▶▶▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to Anti_socialist, 3, #293 of 1795 🔗

But Shetland wants independence from it!

361881 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to Dermot McClatchey, 2, #294 of 1795 🔗

LOL You have no idea how right you are.

361717 ▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 20, #295 of 1795 🔗

Yes its not a nice feeling to know that under an authoritarian regime you simply cannot rely on your own people at all. Its certainly been an eye opener for me and it leaves a very bad taste in the mouth.

361553 Scotty87, replying to Scotty87, 61, #296 of 1795 🔗

It tells you how far we’ve fallen as a nation when Matt Hancock is not only confident enough to enter a public space, but he can do so and not be savaged by a rabid mob. Shameful.

361554 ▶▶ JHUNTZ, replying to Scotty87, 21, #297 of 1795 🔗

That was my initial thought. The public haven’t got a clue no wonder he’s smiling.

361603 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to JHUNTZ, 14, #298 of 1795 🔗

He thinks it’s because we think he is ‘Mr Vaccine’ the tosser.

361559 ▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to Scotty87, 19, #299 of 1795 🔗

Agreed, I feared for his life when I saw the headline picture , sadly I was wrong, he was in no danger.

362443 ▶▶▶ Ken Garoo, replying to Anti_socialist, 3, #300 of 1795 🔗

He probably has a couple of Personal Protection Officers closeby.

361567 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Scotty87, 24, #301 of 1795 🔗

Typical. If there’s one face in this world I WOULD like to see hidden behind a mask, it’s that fucker’s.

361721 ▶▶ alw, replying to Scotty87, -7, #302 of 1795 🔗

I have seen Matt Hancock out and about round here as I have Jeremy Corbyn and while I loathe and detest both men for different reasons, I would not call them out during their free time. There has been too much doorstepping of prominent people by the MSM in recent years particularly those seen on the “so-called right.”
I am more than happy to challenge these people in other circumstances.

362210 ▶▶▶ jos, replying to alw, 13, #303 of 1795 🔗

I’m sorry – who are you? They’re ruining our lives – knowingly judging by their smirking Andy duping delight shown during interviews – and you’re worried about disturbing their afternoon walk? This is the problem in this country that is insurmountable- the forelock-tugging fearful masses

362240 ▶▶▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to jos, 3, #304 of 1795 🔗

Indeed. We’re conditioned and socialised to be deferential.

362406 ▶▶▶ Woden, replying to alw, 8, #305 of 1795 🔗

This fucker is out and about playing ball with his kid ,smirking whist telling every other fucker to stay indoors.. !!!

362578 ▶▶▶ Jez Hewitt, replying to alw, 3, #306 of 1795 🔗

Would other circumstances include your face under their boot?

My surprise, like other’s, is that someone didn’t take him out, not call the cunt out.

361564 Bugle, replying to Bugle, 25, #307 of 1795 🔗

A poll done for the Sun by YouGov finds that 52% of respondents think the police are not tough enough in enforcing lockdown. Some points:-

1.YouGov’s role appears to be feeding back to the government what it wants to hear. 2. A simple majority in a properly constituted democracy cannot just vote down the rights of a minority: freedom of speech, freedom of association and the right to protest. It is fallacious to argue it can. See J.S. Mill,”On Liberty”. 3. If you had commissioned a poll in pre-war Germany about the conduct of the government, you would have found widespread support for Nazi policies.

If the Sun and the government think a crude poll of an ill-informed public is a sound basis to proceed, we are in dangerous waters indeed.

361580 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to Bugle, 23, #308 of 1795 🔗

That means, even by dodgy YouGov standards, 48% of us disagree with the government. I would reckon that 10-20% is sufficient to mount an effective opposition.

‘Revolution is always the kicking in of a rotten door’. – JK Galbraith.

361601 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bugle, 8, #309 of 1795 🔗

There was a lot of public support for Hitler, some of it under reported in the same way that people would hide their intention to vote Trump or Leave.
Hitler was telling Getmans what many of them wanted to hear.

361606 ▶▶▶ TC, replying to karenovirus, 7, #310 of 1795 🔗

Supposedly 3 million men joined the SA (Brownshirts) by 1933.
Men willing to publicly be known as Nazis and wear a uniform to back it up.
Let’s hope the mask wearers don’t escalate in their views and apparel.

361739 ▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to TC, 1, #311 of 1795 🔗

It would have a funny side. What would their uniforms look like?

361792 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Ovis, 4, #312 of 1795 🔗

Pathetic cheap sky blue tabards from what I’ve seen around here.

362409 ▶▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to TC, 1, #313 of 1795 🔗

The SA were in many places enrolled as auxiliary police after the Nazi takeover in 1933, so the attraction was power and perhaps some money although I don’t know how much they were paid. Not all were particularly political – after the Nazi takeover and the banning of rivals quite a few had come over from the Communist paramilitary Red Front Fighters’ League – enough so that there were worries that some SA units were “beefsteaks” – brown outside, red inside. Not all of the Communist paramilitaries had been particularly motivated by politics either – a lot of youngish men were looking for a fight without much of a need for a political motivation.

361620 ▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to Bugle, 8, #314 of 1795 🔗

I’m triggered by your post,

“police are not tough enough”

Sometimes the rabid calls for greater use of extreme violence by police on the “criminal class” that many ‘liberal’ DM & Sun readers is incredibly chilling at times.

What’s the point of law, judiciary & enforcement if its more brutal than the conduct of criminals, this point merges well with my comment on the class war below.

361569 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 19, #315 of 1795 🔗

All this talk of digital passports does raise the question of what do do about people who do not have a smart-phone? I am old and curmudgeonly and do not want to talk to anyone and nobody wants to talk to me, why would I need a phone? Apparently around 50% of over 65’s do not have a smart-phone. Will there need to be a paper system for the non phone users?
Also, where poor people do need a phone they sometimes share one phone between several people, will you be able to have several people’s digital I.D. stuff on one phone?

361578 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Steve Martindale, 7, #316 of 1795 🔗

And when your phone gets stolen by drug dealers who need a constant supply of ‘clean’ numbers to stay ahead of babylon.

361582 ▶▶ JHUNTZ, replying to Steve Martindale, 10, #317 of 1795 🔗

“The COVID-19 vaccination record also needs to be verifiable and secure in a way that was less important for past vaccination records, otherwise, a person could try to fake having gotten the COVID-19 vaccine by using someone else’s record, Meyer said.”

That’s a problem the creeps are discussing.

361588 ▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to JHUNTZ, 10, #318 of 1795 🔗

The Mark of the Beast will solve the problem.

361596 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Londo Mollari, 4, #319 of 1795 🔗

In the absence of the BCG scar that many of us carry perhaps a tattoo could be used to mark the vaccine compliant giving them access to enhanced citizen rights.

361600 ▶▶▶▶▶ Annie, replying to karenovirus, 5, #320 of 1795 🔗

Some people bit a whopping. CG scar, others like me got nothing…

361608 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to karenovirus, 11, #321 of 1795 🔗

Tattoos heh? Apparently this guy thinks that would be an excellent idea.

361642 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #322 of 1795 🔗

Technology for catagorising those in the Programme and keeping track of them supplied by IBM.

361706 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Londo Mollari, 5, #323 of 1795 🔗

Yes, you can see it unfolding before our very eyes. 666

361735 ▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to Steve Martindale, 12, #324 of 1795 🔗

I am 61 and have never had a smart phone. I just dont like them …all that sliding of your fingers on glass. They need charging every day too and they are an awkward shape to carry. I like buttons to push and only need a phone to call and text. I am not remotely interested in any other purpose.

362212 ▶▶ jos, replying to Steve Martindale, #325 of 1795 🔗

Good question

361570 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 9, #326 of 1795 🔗

I’ve now been told of two nursing homes in the city that had previously been clear coming down with Covid at or around the same time that vaccinations started.

Those reporting this have not themselves implied a causal link and neither do I.

361581 ▶▶ Stephensceptic, replying to karenovirus, 18, #327 of 1795 🔗

I believe (although I have no proof) that the vaccines are a disaster in the making.

Enough issues are filtering through to suggest this but cognitive bias has kicked in and they are typically being ignored or rationalised as anti vaxxer hoaxes.

I hope I am wrong.

If I right then I believe it will take a very long time for the truth to come out. It does not fit the narrative that everyone wants.

361701 ▶▶▶ Janette, replying to Stephensceptic, 8, #328 of 1795 🔗

I totally agree and why the big push to vaccinate everyone? They don’t do this with the flu vaccines.

361716 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Janette, 14, #329 of 1795 🔗

There has been talk that having the flu jab and then catching Covid can lead to complications. Neither of us has ever had the flu jab and for the first time ever have received 2 letters from our GP asking us to make an appointment for one! We thought this was decidedly unusual behaviour from our GP particularly as its been impossible to get an appointment for the last 9 months. Needless to say should we receive a letter about a Covid jab that will also be binned.

361741 ▶▶▶▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to Bella Donna, 5, #330 of 1795 🔗

I presume they receive money for each vaccination done.

361787 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Boris Bullshit, 2, #331 of 1795 🔗

£10.00 above the going rate for the normal flu jab.

361845 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Boris Bullshit, #332 of 1795 🔗

Yes that is apparently true. I’ve seen a figure of 10 to 15 pounds per jab mentioned.

361968 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jo Dominich, replying to Boris Bullshit, 2, #333 of 1795 🔗

Spot on.

361854 ▶▶▶▶▶ penelope pitstop, replying to Bella Donna, 7, #334 of 1795 🔗

yes they have lowered the age range to 50 for the flu jab this year. I received 2 texts and replied to go take a hike (well slightly politer to not bother me again). I’ve never had the jab and never had flu, and i fear any connection between that and the virus – i’ll rely on my immune system.

361965 ▶▶▶ Jo Dominich, replying to Stephensceptic, 8, #335 of 1795 🔗

You are right it is a massive disaster in the making. Norway has just ceased vaccination of its older, vulnerable citizens due to a high number of deaths. Deaths seem to follow post-vaccination, more than we think. It’s just massive denial by Big Pharma. However, the message is getting through from Countries that take the lives of their citizens seriously and actually care about their citizens. Here, we now know our Government couldn’t give a damn about the British People and neither can Starmer and his now Conservative Clone Labour Party.

361586 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to karenovirus, 5, #336 of 1795 🔗

I have been asking for a few days – with no response – whether vaccines were rolled out earlier or more widely in London than elsewhere -so as to account for the fact that London seems to have had more infections in the period covering Christmas than anywhere else.

361591 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to Londo Mollari, 4, #337 of 1795 🔗

Logically this should lead to fewer vaccinations in London. It suggests London is furthest over the hump & more people already have immunity due to prior infection.

361961 ▶▶ Jo Dominich, replying to karenovirus, 7, #338 of 1795 🔗

Israeli figures show that around 100 people vaccinated went on to contract Covid post-vaccination when they did not have it before. I think there is definitely a causation it’s just that the drug companies will not admit to it neither will the NHS.

361574 Stephensceptic, replying to Stephensceptic, 51, #339 of 1795 🔗

I fear this is getting worse.

Just had a Waitrose delivery. Normally the drivers seem pretty sensible and not in masks etc. This guy was fully masked up with one of those super tight ones that he thinks will stop viruses sneaking round the side of. Not sure how he thinks air gets in and CO2 gets out but I guess each to their own.

Normally, the guys put your bagged delivery on the door step. This guy left the bags in the trays outside the house. Then instructed me very strictly not to touch the trays. This was such a dystopian horror at 7am that I mentioned that the science does not really support viruses spreading by me touching his trays. I did not touch the trays. Clearly, given the way he was wearing his mask, I really should not have bothered but it was early.

He basically replied by saying that he is the one risking his life by doing this. That’s really how he sees it. I thanked him and wished him “Stay Safe”. I guess that if restaurants and schools are shut for “safety” reasons then one can see his point! Especially if he watches the BBC and Sky.

I fear there is no hope for our society when normal human interaction is now instinctively viewed as dangerous. The propaganda is just so intense that this is all becoming internalised. People are behaving this way out of reflex now, with zero perspective. It really is the 1984 type scenario that if you bombard the same messages constantly then people will believe them. And there is no point in quoting statistics such as that no one has found any statistically significant higher case rate amongst supermarket workers or police officers compared to the overall population. It just falls on deaf ears.

Maybe this was one a one off. But, it is scary that people are this scared of Covid. He even looked young. Well under 50. I am much higher risk than he would be.

The future is very bleak. For the first time, I really now believe this horror show will never end. History (when we eventually wake up in a few decades) will for sure look back on situations like this though and ask the obvious question: “what on earth were they doing?” Anyone transported here from the past would for sure ask that.

361585 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Stephensceptic, 21, #340 of 1795 🔗

There will be no future from which to look back from -a society this paranoid about social interaction will not survive.

361594 ▶▶▶ Annie, replying to Londo Mollari, 14, #341 of 1795 🔗

Something will replace it. Let’s try to ensure the new version is better- even if it consists of only ourselves while all the rest cower in the coal-hole.

361592 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Stephensceptic, 12, #342 of 1795 🔗

They will look back on us in the same way we look back on witchunts but at least witchunters had ignorance as an excuse.

361856 ▶▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to karenovirus, 6, #343 of 1795 🔗

Ignorance in what way? I think Covid-fanaticism and witch-hunting mania are different manifestations of the same kind of deliberately-induced mass-hysteria.

361597 ▶▶ TC, replying to Stephensceptic, 17, #344 of 1795 🔗

Risking his life?
Are Waitrose paying danger money?
I hope you didn’t tip him as he sounds a self righteous young fellow.

361628 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Stephensceptic, 7, #345 of 1795 🔗

Waitrose have also dispensed with the dividers they use on their conveyor belts – deemed “too dangerous” …

361671 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 4, #346 of 1795 🔗

Still have them in my local Waitrose. It’s actually a sane branch.

361765 ▶▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to kh1485, 10, #347 of 1795 🔗

Oh no not the dividers!!!!!!!! Forget the machetes …those dividers!!

361791 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Boris Bullshit, 2, #348 of 1795 🔗

I know … scary …

361886 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kh1485, 15, #349 of 1795 🔗

“For the safety of all our customers and staff, please strap a snot and sweat soaked rag to your face, touch it constantly, and then touch all the goods that other people have to buy. Thank you for shoping safely at Waitrose”.

361708 ▶▶ Janette, replying to Stephensceptic, 13, #350 of 1795 🔗

I agree with you. If I get the chance to talk to anyone when I am out and about I try and suss out if they share my views. Sadly a lot of them don’t but others are receptive. I think we just have to continue trying to persuade people of the truth.

361733 ▶▶ alw, replying to Stephensceptic, 8, #351 of 1795 🔗

Have had no problem with the Waitrose delivery men Some maskless and those who do wear lower them to speak to you.

361759 ▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to Stephensceptic, 15, #352 of 1795 🔗

I have many of the same feelings myself. I have had a couple of people with true terror in their eyes when they see me. I tried to reassure one that I did not have any disease but that seemed to make them worse! They shrank away from me as they might if I was a knife wielding maniac. I have to blame the scumbag media for brainwashing people like this but also the individuals have to be held partly responsible too. They could have tried doing some research and not just believed the BBC…or after 10 months noticed that the ‘death industries’ (funeral directors,grave diggers etc) are no more busy than usual for the season.

361952 ▶▶▶ Jo Dominich, replying to Boris Bullshit, 5, #353 of 1795 🔗

Strangely enough, here where I live is the epitomy of sane – I haven’t come across any ‘pavement jumpers’, cringers, wide-berthers. In fact, people are chatting together in the street, little or no social distancing evidenced. Police cars have been seen out and about but they are just allowing people to get on with their lives and their business. We are very lucky with our Chief of Police here – a sane and sensible person and a sane and sensible council too.

I think because everything is low key here, people are just acting sensibly and normally.

361986 ▶▶ Suey, replying to Stephensceptic, 6, #354 of 1795 🔗

You should have offered him a tip. you know: filthy dirty actual cash. A tenner, in pound coins. I bet he would have forgotten all his nastiness then.

And you should report him for his comment that it’s him risking his life, when you are the one more at risk (hence keeping him in a job by getting deliveries).

These people need kickback.

361575 karenovirus, 11, #355 of 1795 🔗

Re-posted with correction.

From the main text about vaccine Passports.

Polish Deputy Health minister says the (QR) code will allow the recipient to “use the rights of those who have been vaccinated”.

Welcome to Social Credit.
For those unfamiliar with this Dr Vernon Coleman has made a welcome return to outline it on YouTube, 15 minutes.

361584 AfterAll, replying to AfterAll, 16, #356 of 1795 🔗

Regarding the comment in the section on ICU admissions that “ There is a slight skew towards the middle 18-64 band in London compared with the national figures”, the population of London is heavily skewed to this age group compared to the country as a whole, so the skew in ICU admissions is unsurprising.

361728 ▶▶ alw, replying to AfterAll, 2, #357 of 1795 🔗

And the London ICUs are admitting people from other regions.

361780 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to alw, 2, #358 of 1795 🔗

Nope, they are sending their covids down here to the S/W.

362338 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to karenovirus, 1, #359 of 1795 🔗

Well, not the ICU patients.

361615 Now More Than Ever, replying to Now More Than Ever, 66, #360 of 1795 🔗

If we accept that there are now three groups

1) the unconvertible zealots and the terminally frightened
2) the “bit fed up but going along with it” (the vast majority, I think, and born out among my own wide circle of friends and acquaintances)
3) us

Then we should take encouragement from the fact that, from now onwards, virtually no-one is going to go from group 2 to group 1.

The only likely direction of travel for Group 2 is towards our own position, and it will grow and grow as it starts to dawn on people that, despite the vaccine, we are never going back to normal.

Take heart, and fight on!

361634 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Now More Than Ever, 15, #361 of 1795 🔗

My hope is that as the weather brightens, lovely sunny morning in N Devon, people will get the urge to get up and travel especially with half term and Easter coming up. I think it is your group 2 that will want to break free as we head into better weather.

361674 ▶▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to Steve Martindale, 4, #362 of 1795 🔗

It’s a lovely day here in Yorks. Going out for a walk this afternoon, will be interesting to take the temperature.

362316 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #363 of 1795 🔗

Agreed, I think the first appearance of decent spring weather will be a useful indication of where things are going. Though I go out every day, some people are quite happy staying at home semi-hibernating when it’s cold and damp outside. When good weather comes along, even those people will feel the urge to get out, go places and do things.

361636 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Now More Than Ever, 23, #364 of 1795 🔗

Group 2 are the ones I despise most: if they’d applied logic and critical thinking, this shitshow could have ended months ago.

361659 ▶▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to kh1485, 6, #365 of 1795 🔗

I don’t disagree KH.

361647 ▶▶ JHUNTZ, replying to Now More Than Ever, 12, #366 of 1795 🔗

The thing is though if group 2 get a vaccine and that allows return to ‘normal’ with masks and distancing I don’t think they’ll care. As long as they can their pint in the pub.

They will not be able to compute the shit sandwich they’ve been served. They’ve gone on this long asleep.

361663 ▶▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to JHUNTZ, 4, #367 of 1795 🔗

Businesses will start to care, as the numbers won’t add up.

361705 ▶▶ Dave Angel Eco Warrier, replying to Now More Than Ever, 4, #368 of 1795 🔗

I’m not so sure. There seems to have been a steady conversion of people leaning more towards the ‘zealot’ group as a result of the constant MSM coverage of how the hospitals are under pressure. That seems to be enough to convince many people that we are living in end of days and lockdowns are completely justified. The negatives of lockdowns are just not on the table and probably won’t be until the end of February at the earliest.

361722 ▶▶▶ JHUNTZ, replying to Dave Angel Eco Warrier, 7, #369 of 1795 🔗

The problem with reversing the prevailing narrative is we in group 3 can’t speak to anyone in group 2.

I’d love to educate some thickos in the local pub.

361794 ▶▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to JHUNTZ, 7, #370 of 1795 🔗

The vast number of people in group 2 is an epic embarrassment to our species. If anyone with a strategic, critical mind ever gets into power, their first priority should be the make sure our education system teaches people not to be sheeple.

361797 ▶▶ Puddleglum, replying to Now More Than Ever, 16, #371 of 1795 🔗

It has gone beyond silly in the past few days. Police in newly marked out corona virus regulations enforcement vans. People wearing masks to go for a walk in the country. A masked couple pressed themselves into a hedge with their backs towards me as I climbed up the hill past them yesterday.

The fear can only be maintained for so long. Even with fear of death people will get weary of staying scared (I hope!)

361809 ▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Puddleglum, 7, #372 of 1795 🔗

I thought the same in March but here we are…

361824 ▶▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to Puddleglum, 6, #373 of 1795 🔗

Yes I have had the ‘pressed themselves into the hedge’ experience. I suppose the best thing to do is just to laugh at them…..its pointless trying to engage with them…they just respond with pure terror. There is no hope for these people.

361928 ▶▶ Jo Dominich, replying to Now More Than Ever, 1, #374 of 1795 🔗

You bet! I’ve rolled my sleeves up ready for the big fight!

361618 Puddleglum59, replying to Puddleglum59, 5, #375 of 1795 🔗

Many times in the past people have been encouraged to turn to God to ‘heal their land’. National days of prayer have been held to that end. Where is the call for such healing today? Surely it is needed more than ever.

361629 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Puddleglum59, 8, #376 of 1795 🔗

They’re doing vaccinations in the cathedrals. Does that count?

361633 ▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 10, #377 of 1795 🔗

Looks to me like the religious class in Old Testament Israel going along with Moloch worship.

361638 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 3, #378 of 1795 🔗

With a population density that I would have thought acceptable for worship ‘in these difficult times’ instead of which my local Cathedral has just closed its doors to worshippers.

362174 ▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to karenovirus, 1, #379 of 1795 🔗

Ours too. Open on Sundays only. No tourists welcome during the week, then they demand money “to support us” while closing the coffee and gift shops.

Never occurs to these people to push the envelope and demand that the gift shop stays open for the sale of Bibles or that the huge Refectory could have a massive queue under cover with takeaways for sale.

361630 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Puddleglum59, 20, #380 of 1795 🔗

We’ve moved on, Covidology is the new religion, The NHS is the established church which must be revered and protected at all costs, the face-mask is the crucifix symbol of your support for this cult, the vaccine is the sacrament, twitter is the Spanish inquisition where dissenters are torn asunder and SAGE is the source of all authority on all of this.

361656 ▶▶▶ FerdIII, replying to Steve Martindale, 4, #381 of 1795 🔗

And Chris Shitty is the Pope?

362176 ▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to FerdIII, 2, #382 of 1795 🔗


The Heart of Darkness.

361688 ▶▶▶ Melangell, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #383 of 1795 🔗

Utterly brilliant!

361732 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Steve Martindale, 6, #384 of 1795 🔗

Exactly!!! Don’t forget the BBC as the spreader of this Gospel of Covid and the NHS.

People have simply swapped an old religion for a new one.

362226 ▶▶▶ jos, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #385 of 1795 🔗

No – satanism is the new religion

361631 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Puddleglum59, 10, #386 of 1795 🔗

To my astonishment, the majority of the churches have been taken in by this panic. It has looked to me for some time as resembling Paul’s prophecy in 2 Thess 2 of a “great delusion/deception” accompanying a falling away from the faith. .

361655 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Londo Mollari, 3, #387 of 1795 🔗

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.”

361670 ▶▶▶ FerdIII, replying to Londo Mollari, 5, #388 of 1795 🔗

Most Catholic Churches and the hierarchy are Vatican II Libtards. Anglican Church is not Christian imo, but an adjunct of the BBC. Our Catholic priest openly and proudly proclaims that he reads and believes the Guardian. So yes most will be Covidiots.

Many churches also rely on state money. They are in essence state employees. If they don’t comply, they don’t survive. For example, any large renovation project is partially funded by the state.

361677 ▶▶ Alice, replying to Puddleglum59, 4, #389 of 1795 🔗

Christian Concern calls for Day of Prayer Friday the 22nd of Jan.

362749 ▶▶ ColoradoGirl, replying to Puddleglum59, #390 of 1795 🔗

Agreed! I am praying that the truth will come out.

361632 isobar, replying to isobar, 9, #391 of 1795 🔗

Are lockdowns simply too evil for the general public to question?

A Canadian perspective.

361648 ▶▶ FerdIII, replying to isobar, 8, #392 of 1795 🔗

Canadians in general, some exceptions, are good sheeple. If the CBC (equiv to the BBC), told them to eat dog shit which stops ‘CV 19 transmission’, most Canadians would be outside on both knees, bread in both hands, complying. Critical thinkers….not. I know because of extensive experience and family. They don’t question, they bleat.

361773 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to FerdIII, 1, #393 of 1795 🔗

And I grew up thinking all Canadians were like the Forest Rangers.

362218 ▶▶▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to karenovirus, 1, #394 of 1795 🔗

Oh, Bevis! And I though you were so butch ……!

361665 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to isobar, 16, #395 of 1795 🔗

Outstanding. This quotation, from that post, is worth bombarding people with.

“Throughout 2020, lockdown measures have been quite popular, but that popularity is deceptive. For the general public, the idea that anyone might accept some outside incentive to support such devastating policies while knowing them to be ineffective — needlessly bankrupting millions of families and depriving millions of children of education and food — is, quite simply, too dark.

“Thus, the public supports lockdowns because the alternative — that they might have been implemented without good cause — is a possibility too evil for most to contemplate. But those who know history know that others with superficially excellent credentials have done even worse for even less.”

361649 Schrodinger, replying to Schrodinger, 28, #396 of 1795 🔗

Just when you thought it couldn’t get any more bonkers, someone manages it,

361669 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to Schrodinger, 14, #397 of 1795 🔗

This would be the same “fresh air” that apparently is good for us and which we should be opening windows to let in.

361702 ▶▶▶ iane, replying to Now More Than Ever, 6, #398 of 1795 🔗

If only Carlsberg made fresh air!

361713 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Schrodinger, 9, #399 of 1795 🔗

Terrifying. If anyone knows where I can buy covid-safe air please get in touch.

361766 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Schrodinger, 2, #400 of 1795 🔗

All sounds a bit like ‘despite Brexit’, let them be ever more absurd in their claims it will open peoples eyes the sooner.

362648 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to arfurmo, 1, #402 of 1795 🔗

Loads of octogenarians were out snowball-fighting this week.

362601 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Schrodinger, 1, #403 of 1795 🔗

This is taking the piss and sadly enough people will fall for it.

Yet again why don’t they come clean and simply say that existing is hazardous to your health and advocate hara-kiri to stop the virus?

361662 MFvH, replying to MFvH, 5, #404 of 1795 🔗

Is it true or just my perception that the ONS data take a lot longer to be published?
It has been my to go to ‘number checker’…
Also I can’t find 2020total annual deaths for any country apart from Sweden.
Would be very interesting.
I do sound like a fun person don’t I 😉

361763 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to MFvH, 1, #405 of 1795 🔗

There have been delays recently put down to the Xmas NY holiday period.
Previous weeks stats used to be published the following Tuesday.

361664 mikec, 38, #406 of 1795 🔗

I’ve been using a similar description of lockdown as Prof Kulldorff, it has quite an impact. I generally say that pandemic has been redefined as ‘ when the middle class hide at home in fear of a cold virus whilst the working class continue to deliver their parcels and food orders, whilst they drive their buses and taxis, whilst they stack their supermarket shelves, whilst they tidy their gardens etc etc’. It generally gets a very knowing look from those who’ve carried on working and strangely seems to enrage the professional classes. A little sensitive methinks? Give it a try, every little helps (sorry Tesco).

361666 Bruce Reynolds, replying to Bruce Reynolds, 15, #407 of 1795 🔗

If only me and the Bro’s had been in that London park yesterday, he’d have had two balls down his throat and the rugby ball up his ass..

361673 ▶▶ Alice, replying to Bruce Reynolds, #408 of 1795 🔗

Does anyone know which park it was?

361678 ▶▶▶ Bruce Reynolds, replying to Alice, 6, #409 of 1795 🔗

Haven’t read the article, probably a set up job..

361726 ▶▶▶ isobar, replying to Alice, 1, #410 of 1795 🔗

Apparently it was Queens Park, North London

361842 ▶▶▶▶ mj, replying to isobar, 1, #411 of 1795 🔗

he is in the playground adjacent to Millman Road .

361755 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bruce Reynolds, 9, #412 of 1795 🔗

Psy op ‘I’m taking the piss and don’t care if you know’ MH.

362871 ▶▶ franknhonest, replying to Bruce Reynolds, #413 of 1795 🔗


361668 Crimson Avenger, replying to Crimson Avenger, 11, #414 of 1795 🔗

Why do policemen wear facemasks when they are beating innocent people up?

361729 ▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to Crimson Avenger, 13, #415 of 1795 🔗

LOL so true, the main mitigation measures for covid19 are social distancing , masks & limiting social contact, washing hands etc.

So police hunt in large packs, go from person to person “advising” on covid rules, ignore social distancing whilst harassing the public, either don’t wear masks or keep touching them with vinyl gloves they’ve had on for hours, & participating in unecessary physical contact, arresting manhandling & handcuffing innocent non violent people!

Who are the super spreaders & granny killers?

361750 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Anti_socialist, 6, #416 of 1795 🔗

They will have been especially trained to gang wrestle pigeon feeding grannies to the pavement in a Covid Safe way.

361775 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Crimson Avenger, 10, #417 of 1795 🔗

To hide their smiles?

361675 TheBigman, replying to TheBigman, 25, #418 of 1795 🔗

So. We have a denial of herd immunity in the posts. Yet that’s the very principle behind vaccinations, so why vaccinate at all?
I dare say that this is deliberate obfuscation.
Then we move on to that greater immunity levels mean greater number of variant strains, so again why vaccinate. Especially with an experimental vaccine.


This is not the correct course at all. Most laws created are to serve outstanding agendas and strip the rights and freedoms of us all.


361712 ▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to TheBigman, 3, #419 of 1795 🔗

We agree again the vaccine is nothing more than misdirection, it has no value in combating covid19.

361736 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Anti_socialist, 2, #420 of 1795 🔗

But it seems to be killing about 2.7% (for now).

361676 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 69, #421 of 1795 🔗

Just pondering what to put on the blackboards this morning. Wonder how the Environmental Health Officer would react to this:

361685 ▶▶ Richy_m_99, replying to kh1485, 11, #422 of 1795 🔗

The EHO will become another Covid statistic when he ends up in hospital following his heart attack, brought on by apoplexy

Go for it!

361690 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Richy_m_99, 14, #423 of 1795 🔗

I think a heart attack caused by obesity will get her first. Have to chuckle that this woman has any kind of role in ‘Public Health’.

361746 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to kh1485, 5, #424 of 1795 🔗

‘Public Health’ is a relatively new thing but it relegated your health and mine to the greater good and so here we are.

362369 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to kh1485, 3, #425 of 1795 🔗

The (now ex) Belgian health minister takes the prize.

361772 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to kh1485, 7, #426 of 1795 🔗

Hope you’re packed all day!

361783 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to kh1485, 39, #427 of 1795 🔗

I settled on this:

Groundhog Day

Liberty still denied;
Freedom still denied;
Education still denied.

You can come after our business, but you’ll never take our minds.

We are open to the truth.

361889 ▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to kh1485, 12, #428 of 1795 🔗

Brilliant. Kudos once more to you.

I heard anecdotally of a business putting up a big BLM sign; that would be interesting to see how the plod react.. esp. if the words ‘Bloomin’ Lockdown Measures’ are printed in tiny small print underneath.. 🙂

361959 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to kh1485, 6, #429 of 1795 🔗


361683 Ianric, replying to Ianric, 25, #430 of 1795 🔗

When lockdown was introduced this created winners and losers. The losers have been businesses forced to close and the knock on effect on other businesses. For instance, if restaurants have to close, this has a knock effect on suppliers. Winners are divided into categories. Firstly, there are firms who directly benefit. These include manufacturers of vaccines, testing kits, hand gels, screens, signs for social distancing, cleaning products, masks, firms who run testing sites. Secondly, there are companies who benefit when their competitors are not allowed to operate which must be a wet dream for business owners. When so called non essential shops are not allowed to open, supermarkets and online retailers get increased sales. For instance, if bookshops are not allowed to open people will buy books in supermarkets or online. If gyms are not allowed to open firms who sell home exercise equipment may get more sales. If pubs and restaurants can’t open, supermarkets and online sellers may get increased alcohol sales. If people don’t want to cook at home but can’t eat out, takeaways get increased business. In the takeaway trade you see winners and losers. Kebab shops loose trade if pubs are closed as they are dependant on pub goers. Takeaways dependant on shoppers loose trade if the majority of shops have to close and high streets are empty. Takeaways not dependant on pub goers and shoppers don’t loose out. It has been mentioned tradesmen get increased trade from people who spend more time at home as they have more incentive to improve their homes.

This creates an issue that a covid industrial complex has been created and many may have a vested interest in lockdowns continuing. If government members and their advisors have shares, received funding or have directorships in companies which benefit from lockdowns this may explain why lockdowns are continuing. On an anti lockdown facebook page there was a list of Sage members who have links with vaccine manufacturers. Whitty and Valance have links to vaccine companies. MPs are supposed to reveal if they have links to companies but how do we know if MPs who imposed lockdowns don’t have secret connections to companies benefiting from lockdowns.

361696 ▶▶ FerdIII, replying to Ianric, 6, #431 of 1795 🔗

Agree CV is a military-industrial complex worth billions of £. Many billions. It feeds the NHS (more CV attestations, more funding), same for Nursing-Old Age Home Care (more cases, more ’emergency’ funds); feeds Pharma well known to buy politicians with 60 years of criminal history, and other suppliers within the CV supply chain. Some Big Business will be lobbying to keep the LDs. Destroying centres of opposition – the family, the church, the middle class business owner, non-governmental free associations – is always a stated goal of the fascist.

361738 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Ianric, 6, #432 of 1795 🔗

‘Covid Industrial Complex’
Inspired 👏 👏 👏

361761 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Ianric, 8, #433 of 1795 🔗

“Kebab shops loose trade if pubs are closed as they are dependant on pub goers.” Has anyone ever eaten a kebab when sober?

361944 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to arfurmo, 4, #434 of 1795 🔗

I love Kebabs. I am a kebab connoisseur. All the way through the 1st LD my kebab shop kept open and the kebab man stayed normal. We get on great. I love these kebab guys. I would get a lovely kebab as a special treat, eating out!

I used to call them FREEDOM kebabs. I said the shop should change it’s name to Freedom Kebabs.

I was terribly disappointed to see the kebab shop guy was sporting a FN, to be fair after a told him I can’t stand them he removed it for me. Bless, but I haven’t been back since mandatory FN day.

361764 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Ianric, 4, #435 of 1795 🔗

It might be a little more complex than that. A few I’ve spoken to, who’ve had their busiest year and should have raked in the coin, are completely over it and want the return to normality. The challenges they’ve had to deal with in order to operate, have massively reduced the extra profits expected.

361935 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Ianric, 4, #436 of 1795 🔗

In 2020 there were over 50 new billionaires created, 27 of them in China and all related to the ‘medical industrial complex’. Your term ‘covid industrial complex’ is novel and current but the whole money making machine concerning health and medicine stretches far wider than that.

361695 iane, replying to iane, 5, #437 of 1795 🔗

Hmm, not so sure about that Bob cartoon: we clearly were not what we thought we were back in 2019. Perhaps he should have simply showed a pair of dirty glasses in 2019 seemingly showing a lion and then a quick clean and polish now revealing what the country has clearly become over the last 3 or 4 decades. Horrifying truth revealed!

361699 ▶▶ FerdIII, replying to iane, 2, #438 of 1795 🔗

The Lion needs to be Black of course. Muslim preferably. Say a Muslim Black Panther, but weak, withered, with cross-eyes licking its balls.

The caged kitten must be a transgendered, diaper wearing mouse, crying, terrified and shatting itself.

Then the cartoon would be more accurate.

361707 ▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to iane, 1, #439 of 1795 🔗

I thought it was a good anaolgy, Lions were once the most widespread species on the planet, no they are almost extinct due to neo-liberal globalism.

361711 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to iane, 5, #440 of 1795 🔗

I’ve always had the general population as well under the thumb. The lion, the war stuff, bulldog spirit etc was always a mere morsel chucked to the masses to make them feel better. The reality is an incredibly supine, subservient populace who still believe whatever they are told by so-called betters.

361891 ▶▶ Old Trout, replying to iane, 3, #441 of 1795 🔗

A kitten is far too feisty to represent the people, should be a slug or maybe an amoeba.

361698 DanClarke, replying to DanClarke, 5, #442 of 1795 🔗

Many have thinking that a vaccine will give them back their foreign holiday but now that the hotels around the world are ‘quarantine hotels’ it looks unlikely. Australia, even if you could go on holiday couldn’t accommodate you because they are full of quarantining people who are returning home and being charged a fortune! I imagine the most expensive hotels are still open for the very rich traveller. A one for the sustainable planet

361727 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to DanClarke, #443 of 1795 🔗

We would get the Australian disused army camps and mining settlements that are being repurposed as remote quarantine stations, together with Chistmas Isalnd.

Perhaps we could send visitors from Oz to St. Helena.

361771 ▶▶▶ FenTyger, replying to karenovirus, #444 of 1795 🔗

Port Arthur is available.

361714 thinkaboutit, 4, #445 of 1795 🔗

Great articles today. The doctor’s analysis of youth infections, the Martin Kuldorff tweet and the Bob cartoon particularly good.

361718 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 9, #446 of 1795 🔗

Is it legal for the Government, with help from their behavioural scientists, to use ‘fear of death’ to control the population? – I mean in the UK not China

361730 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Major Panic, 3, #447 of 1795 🔗

Coercive Control clearly, both intent and fact.

361803 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Major Panic, 5, #448 of 1795 🔗

Remember when we used to laugh at how the Chinese interfered with family life with their one child mandate? Heady times.

361719 p02099003, 3, #449 of 1795 🔗

Professor Fowler needs to look closer to home and ask her university to demolish its botanical garden.

361725 PastImperfect, replying to PastImperfect, 4, #450 of 1795 🔗

Patel and ‘her’ police force. (Queen Pritti???)


6 mins in

Excellent video.

361828 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to PastImperfect, 1, #451 of 1795 🔗

excellent 14 mins in to

361731 Bungle, replying to Bungle, 14, #452 of 1795 🔗

Your expert Rachel Nicholl says you were wrong when you said there would not be a second wave and Toby ‘admitted’ this to Emily Maitlis which prompted me to complain to the BBC. Look at the diagram below of all deaths – the 8 weeks from 5 April to 24th May all had more than 12,500 deaths but no week since has. Interestingly, the only other week with this many was in January (11th), normal seasonal deaths! Can you see a second wave? I can’t.

361757 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Bungle, 2, #453 of 1795 🔗

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/the-second-wave-of-covid-has-drowned-the-sceptics-delusions-f6xznkn6h -can’t get past the paywall but isn’t the point thhat we only got a second wave because of the artificial suppression of the first wave? If the vulnerable had been shielded then herd immunity would be attained by now. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/all-arrivals-to-uk-face-hotel-quarantine-to-stop-new-covid-strains-qgl5q3dkk is worrying -looks like Oz/NZ zero covid. Surely we need the new strains to circulate .

361784 ▶▶▶ Bungle, replying to arfurmo, 3, #454 of 1795 🔗

We haven’t had a second wave – look at the graph (from Oxford Uni Evidence-based Medicine).

361910 ▶▶▶▶ Jo Dominich, replying to Bungle, 4, #455 of 1795 🔗

Yep that was manufactured by repeated testing.

361762 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Bungle, 1, #456 of 1795 🔗

Bungle – now that we are more than halfway through this current “flu” season, do you have an opinion on the ‘dry tinder’ argument used by some sceptics? That there were many old and susceptible groups prone to a novel RTI like c-19 at the start of this year.

I’ve always found that one to be a bit of a shifty point to make and probably counterproductive. It would surely mean fewer passed away this winter as they’d all been sadly taken this spring.

361774 ▶▶▶ Adamb, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #457 of 1795 🔗

This is a good point, I assumed there would be fewer deaths this winter on that basis but this seems to be wrong. What we can’t know though is what the tally of lockdown-induced deaths is.

361801 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Adamb, 1, #458 of 1795 🔗

Agree – it is a soup of data.

361799 ▶▶▶ Bungle, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #459 of 1795 🔗

Hi Tom, apparently the 2 things, larger and older population, increase the death rate. So adjusted figures make 2020 the worst since 2008. Remember that being bad? No, I don’t either. What will be interesting is what happens in the final few weeks of winter, depending how you define winter. The shortest 13 weeks finish on the 5th of Feb but the coldest days have a lag of about 4 weeks.

361802 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Bungle, 1, #460 of 1795 🔗

Cheers B

362153 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Tom Blackburn, #461 of 1795 🔗

The April spike is a mess in data due to management of care homes and the death certs being marked as CV-19 without proper analysis or autopsy. And you have to factor in the impact of the lockdown and scaring people into avoiding hospitals. How many deaths does that contribute to the spike?? It’s so noisy and not all those deaths are ‘dry tinder’. So comparing April 2020 to 2019 or 2018 isn’t that easy given the landscape of Health management was so distorted.

It’s clear the preceeding year was a light flu season and the historical eb and flow between seasons indicates the dry tinder theory is solid to me.

2020 could well have kicked much of the dry tinder into this winter too, remember lockdowns can flatten the pressure on the NHS but overall mortality isn’t changed, you get it regardless, as many studies have now shown, just later.

361877 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Bungle, #462 of 1795 🔗

The second wave is that elevated red bit on the left hand side. Much less than earlier this year but it exists.

Forward progress requires that to come back to normal.

362154 ▶▶▶ Bungle, replying to Lucan Grey, 2, #463 of 1795 🔗

That is the seasonal winter uptick as predicted by Ivor Cummins and everyone else.It is not a wave and you, I think, can see that it is nothing like the AprilMay caper.

361734 PoshPanic, replying to PoshPanic, 7, #464 of 1795 🔗

So The Times finally, after 10 months, think the question of increased screen time for kids should be raised. If McDonalds were to take over the school meal contracts country wide, would they wait 10 months before questioning the policy?

361810 ▶▶ AethelredTheReadier, replying to PoshPanic, 4, #465 of 1795 🔗

The Times is full of lazy ‘journalists’ as, it seems, are most papers and broadcast media. The investigative reporter trying to get to the bottom of something is a thing of the past unfortunately.

361740 PatrickF, replying to PatrickF, 4, #466 of 1795 🔗

Doctor, can I get Coronavirus by sitting down?
Yes. It’s transmitted by your aerosoles.

361806 ▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to PatrickF, 1, #467 of 1795 🔗

Reminds me of the Not The Nine O#Clock News sketch:

362033 ▶▶ Annie, replying to PatrickF, 2, #468 of 1795 🔗

You’re touching bottom there, Patrick!

362246 ▶▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to Annie, 2, #469 of 1795 🔗

I think he’s fundamentally correct, personally.

361743 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 2, #470 of 1795 🔗

It didn’t last long the interview with Mary Ramsay PHE stating the obvious truth in a widely shared video. The inquisitors are back on her. The PHE statement below is completely ridiculous and antiscientific.

362139 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to swedenborg, 5, #471 of 1795 🔗

God. Its so incredibly blatant the censorship that is ongoing. Masks work and no natural herd immunity.

In Cambodia they pin scarecrows to their homes to ward off evil diseases. Maybe we should ditch masks and do that instead

363307 ▶▶ Elisabeth, replying to swedenborg, #472 of 1795 🔗

Off the rails insane

361744 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 5, #473 of 1795 🔗

Last week I heard an Irish ‘expert’ saying on radio that “of course, there is no flu this winter”. Well, there is the odd case as the official data admits:


They regularly trot out the same bollox here, usually with no challenge. That’s on a par to claiming Covid doesn’t exist, which is, of course, Haram.

It seems to me that this would be a simple direct way to challenge ALL their statistical Bollox. Just go for the flu figures. Never let a reference go unchallenged, on the street or in the meeja. Just scream “WHERE HAS THE FLU GONE?” They have to have an answer or they have lost. Seems simple to me.

361813 ▶▶ FerdIII, replying to James Leary #KBF, 10, #474 of 1795 🔗

Covidiot heads usually explode when they claim that diapers-LDs-distancing eradicated the flu (along with 200K businesses). How then does the CV spread since it is a part of the large flu family one asks? Their response is usually; ‘LDs were not strict enough and CV 19 is not a flu, but much much worse’. How then does it spread one asks? They reply ‘droplets in the air floating, nesting, wafting for hundreds of feet…’ What evidence do you have that his is true (it isn’t) or logically, how that would be different than any respiratory-viral disease, of which CV is a part of one asks.

The Covidiots can never explain how CV transmission would be any different, than any other viral disease. Nor why masks would work, when every piece of evidence states they don’t.

361846 ▶▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to FerdIII, 1, #475 of 1795 🔗

It challenges their monopoly, though.

362133 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to FerdIII, #476 of 1795 🔗

John Cullen on YouTube has taken the flu numbers as his line of attack. He points to previous seasons where Fauci and the CDC have used fear of flu epidemics for political motives. This season, they are very quiet on the subject

The zealots also like to say its down to a lakc of testing for flu. But that’s not the case. Japan’s testing numbers for flu continued as normal as Covid showed up and flu dropped off a cliff

361745 alw, replying to alw, 14, #477 of 1795 🔗

From the Torygraph;

“Biden to visit UK first as he plans to work closely with PM
Joe Biden believes a patched-up relationship with Boris Johnson will help to decide the “destiny of the world” as the president-elect is set to head to the UK for his first foreign visit outside of North America, sources have told the Telegraph.”

Gawd help us!!!!!?!

361748 ▶▶ jb12, replying to alw, 6, #478 of 1795 🔗

Hide the teenage girls!

361829 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to jb12, 7, #479 of 1795 🔗

He seems to like them younger than that!

361925 ▶▶▶▶ alw, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #480 of 1795 🔗

Was he a friend of Epstein and Maxwell?

361768 ▶▶ TC, replying to alw, 9, #481 of 1795 🔗

The few americans I have met have seemed pleasant people but the American government is not our best friend and never has been.
The Prime Muppet will be taken in even more readily than his predecessors.

361849 ▶▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to TC, 4, #482 of 1795 🔗

The Prime Muppet

LOL good one

363143 ▶▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Anti_socialist, #483 of 1795 🔗

That’s brilliant – it means that MacFishface is the First Muppet – or numpty or pygmy – insert your own noun there. Made me laugh! Thank you.

361818 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to alw, 4, #484 of 1795 🔗

There always was a UK collusion angle.

361838 ▶▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to Ovis, 3, #485 of 1795 🔗

As there was in 2016, of course.

361837 ▶▶ Mayo, replying to alw, 7, #486 of 1795 🔗

Will Sadiq Khan approve a Biden blimp?

361863 ▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to alw, 4, #487 of 1795 🔗

Well if the Democrats are truly dedicated to tolerance & equality, they will have no choice but to impeach Biden before he’s even figured out how to spell POTUS:

361872 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to alw, 2, #488 of 1795 🔗

Stands to reason Boris was born in the USA in June, not quite the 4th of July but close, he was a US citizen for many years, I think that the UK is heading stateside.

362872 ▶▶▶ Jez Hewitt, replying to JHUNTZ, 1, #490 of 1795 🔗

If this is what freedom looks like, I guess I can take it.

362040 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to alw, 2, #491 of 1795 🔗

I hope he gets special access to Princess Nut Nut and they film it. He won’t be able to resist!!!!

362198 ▶▶ dhid, replying to alw, 1, #492 of 1795 🔗

Whilst her family are a bunch of tools, the Queen still seems like a “good sort”, so I wonder if she’s asked to meet Biden whether she might be persuaded to knee him in the nuts and tell him to fuck off?

I’d pay to watch that.

Problem is, it probably won’t be a State visit, so she won’t get a chance.

Shame really. Lol.

361747 alw, replying to alw, 28, #493 of 1795 🔗

Letter of the day for me in the Torygraph

“What Scruton can teach us in the age of CovidSIR – Madeline Grant, who regrets that she never met Sir Roger Scruton, wonders what he would have made of the present Covid-19 crisis, though she hints that he would have considered the reaction of the authorities to be unconstitutional.
I wrote an article on that very subject for the website The Conservative Woman in December, explaining precisely why he would have been appalled.
I knew Sir Roger for many years and read his many books. It is possible to determine from just one of them, Confessions of a Heretic, that he was passionately opposed to what he described as “health fascism”. He recommended a virtuous life of courage, as opposed to the “cowardly” option of prioritising physical health over all other moral values.
Sir Roger would have been appalled by the authoritarian zealotry of both the police and the Government – and he would have condemned with every fibre of his being the impugning and censoring of those holding contrarian opinions.
Dr Frank Palmer
Twickenham, Middlesex”

362030 ▶▶ Annie, replying to alw, 3, #494 of 1795 🔗

I remember that excellent article!

361751 alw, replying to alw, 16, #495 of 1795 🔗

The evidence based science shows that medical face masks for the healthy do not alter rates of community transmission of SARSCoV2 while they contribute to the plastic pollution of planet. Cloth & masks of other materials increase rates of infection through nebulization spread.”Speaking through some masks dispersed largest droplets into a multitude of smaller droplets..smaller particles are airborne longer than large droplets (larger droplets sink faster), a mask might be counterproductive.” https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/36/eabd3083/tab-figures-data?s=09 … (Source: https://threader.app/thread/1349997185006497793 )

361832 ▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to alw, 7, #496 of 1795 🔗

Yet another study that proves what we already know. Masks don’t work.

362073 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to FarBeyondDrivenDevil, 5, #497 of 1795 🔗

The nebuliser effect actually indicates they make it worse

362120 ▶▶▶▶ FarBeyondDrivenDevil, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #498 of 1795 🔗

Indeed, I think we are now seeing the effects of mass mask wearing.

361753 Adamb, replying to Adamb, 10, #499 of 1795 🔗

Nepali climbers make history with winter summit of K2

Are they mad? Don’t they know there’s a pandemic on??

361756 ▶▶ FenTyger, replying to Adamb, 4, #500 of 1795 🔗

They had oxygen supplies!

361782 ▶▶ Smelly Melly, replying to Adamb, 3, #501 of 1795 🔗

We’re they socially distanced and we’re the pigs behind them to fine them if they broke the rules?

361866 ▶▶ Dorian_Hawkmoon, replying to Adamb, 4, #502 of 1795 🔗

There are still places in the world that haven’t descended into apocalyptic hysteria.

362029 ▶▶▶ Annie, replying to Dorian_Hawkmoon, 2, #503 of 1795 🔗

Climb every Covid.

361779 ▶▶ dpj, replying to FenTyger, 6, #505 of 1795 🔗

It’s quite shocking the number of inaccuracies that article contains:

falsely claims that “more people will die from the restrictions and lockdowns than the virus”

“Covid-19 is no more dangerous than the flu.” An allegation that has been completely debunked by data.

It then finishes by turning in to an advert for vaccines. I would have said that articles like that are more dangerous than the leaflet he is criticising.

361785 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to FenTyger, 3, #506 of 1795 🔗

I find it profoundly depressing that people are quarantining their post. Even more depressing that a medical doctor is indulging their delusions.

362213 ▶▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to Londo Mollari, 4, #507 of 1795 🔗

Mrs. M does exactly this; so do her sister and their aunt. After they’ve wiped them down with Dettol upon receipt. All of them think I hold some cranky views on the current shitshow- insofar as I feel able to discuss my views openly.

361767 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 15, #508 of 1795 🔗

BBC propaganda this morning

Visit Cornwall estimates the county will make £50m, with the summit providing a boost to tourism and the area’s international profile.

Maud ” Where are we going on holiday this year?”

Sid ” Well there is no way I’m getting on a fecking plane this year. One day to get there, one day on the beach, one day trying to understand Matts latest travel restriction and one day to get back”

Maud ” How about a week in Cornwall screaming abuse at the G7 leaders?”

Sid ” Good for me, I’ll dig out the camping stove”

361918 ▶▶ stevie, replying to Cecil B, 3, #509 of 1795 🔗

This is G7 – security will be massive. Expect huge fences and restricted areas, road and rail closures. Disruption to local small businesses and holidaymakers.

361975 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Cecil B, 3, #510 of 1795 🔗

Delegates will be flying in to Newquay airport (longest runway in the UK thanks to the Americans) I should imagine. Perhaps Biden could be given a tour of the rumoured nuclear bunkers they built below the runway. Just in case y’know.
Plenty of large empty hotels around Carbis Bay set in large empty grounds for delegates and bodyguards to wander in. Relaxing to be far away from the proles.
Usefully, also far away from our devastated capital city.
Some years in Cornwall it doesn’t rain in June.
Can’t wait to see the team photos, all masked up, we can play ‘spot your leader’.

361770 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 5, #511 of 1795 🔗


Bell’s Palsy and vaccine. Cases in Israel.

Another fly in the ointment.

361798 ▶▶ alw, replying to wendyk, 6, #512 of 1795 🔗

And transverse myelitis….both related.

361820 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to alw, 3, #513 of 1795 🔗

Neurological damage

361913 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to wendyk, 8, #514 of 1795 🔗

Long vaccine?

362364 ▶▶ Waldorf, replying to wendyk, 1, #515 of 1795 🔗

There were reports of Bell’s Palsy about a month ago after vaccination, in the USA I think.

361788 Fingerache Philip, replying to Fingerache Philip, 42, #516 of 1795 🔗

Will this be the “tipping point” ?
Stores encouraged to ask shoppers to shop alone: Mail on line.
My wife and myself are both 72 and we could manage to do that but WHY THE BLOODY HELL SHOULD WE?

361796 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Fingerache Philip, 15, #517 of 1795 🔗

No, it will not be a tipping point, there are no tipping points with a cult. The cultists will go their graves believing

362129 ▶▶▶ rockoman, replying to Cecil B, 1, #518 of 1795 🔗

So, the death of the cult members constitutes the tipping point.


361804 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Fingerache Philip, 24, #519 of 1795 🔗

I always take my young daughter shopping with me these days just for the sake of annoying the ‘SHOP ALONE’ brigade.

361825 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Fingerache Philip, 19, #520 of 1795 🔗

As a couple we both shop, I decide what we need, my husband carries it. It’s called teamwork! However this is yet another disgusting attack on relationships by this evil government. They can all FO.

362091 ▶▶▶ Janette, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #521 of 1795 🔗


361844 ▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to Fingerache Philip, 12, #522 of 1795 🔗

There’s not going to be any covid revolution, until government ends furlough! That’s when the shit will hit the fan.

361931 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to Anti_socialist, 7, #523 of 1795 🔗

I’ve been hoping that for months.

362080 ▶▶▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to Fingerache Philip, #524 of 1795 🔗

There is no scenario i can imagine a Tory government implementing UBI & if the Tories wont fund it Scotland & Wales wont ever be able to.

362014 ▶▶▶ Freddy Freethinker, replying to Anti_socialist, 1, #525 of 1795 🔗

What about Universal Basic Income (UBI)?

362072 ▶▶▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to Freddy Freethinker, 1, #526 of 1795 🔗

Hmm what about it?

362104 ▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Anti_socialist, 5, #527 of 1795 🔗

That’s what the furlough payments are likely to morph into, the moment that the economy look like reaching a tipping-point (crash).

362252 ▶▶▶▶▶ Freddy Freethinker, replying to Anti_socialist, 2, #528 of 1795 🔗

The thinking seems to be that if we are in a Deflationary Spiral right now (velocity of money is off a cliff despite massive money supply increases) then the government may choose a method of demand stimulus that doesn’t just blow up asset bubbles but keeps the whole economy moving. The idea is that a UBI would give people direct unconditional income support and avoid a deflationary spiral as was seen in the Great Depression.

Strange times.

362090 ▶▶ Janette, replying to Fingerache Philip, 1, #529 of 1795 🔗

Exactly. I am sure if you were I’ll you wouldn’t be out anyway! Go for it

361790 Bill Hickling, replying to Bill Hickling, 18, #530 of 1795 🔗

Just read Dominic Lawson in the Times having a real pop at our Toby. He is another one who thinks that lockdown sceptics just want to “let it rip”. We just don’t agree that quarantining the healthy is the way to go!
I hope Toby counters his misrepresentations.

361800 ▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to Bill Hickling, 9, #531 of 1795 🔗

I got as far as “let it rip”. Anyone who characterizes the sceptic arguments thusly loses my attention!

361805 ▶▶▶ AethelredTheReadier, replying to Andy Riley, 13, #532 of 1795 🔗

This is ‘lazy journalism’. He can”t be bothered to actually find out about why we are sceptical and knows that he can get away with just slagging off anyone who is. I have no respect for him. Or his paper.

361887 ▶▶▶▶ Jo Dominich, replying to AethelredTheReadier, 4, #533 of 1795 🔗

However, on the plus side, I bet it spurs some people to look at this site or become interested in it.

361808 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Bill Hickling, 6, #534 of 1795 🔗

I wouldn’t bother, remember it’s a cult

361826 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Bill Hickling, 1, #535 of 1795 🔗
361862 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Bill Hickling, 2, #536 of 1795 🔗

We let the Aussie Flu rip a few years ago and that killed over 50,000 people. Oh that’s right we always do that.

361884 ▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to Bill Hickling, 6, #537 of 1795 🔗

Lawson is an all time bed wetter. He could cope with being anti establishment on a safe topic like brexit,,,but this was just too much for him. You will find him hiding under the bed…is his sister as bad? I have heard his Dad saying lockdown was wholly disproportionate.

362094 ▶▶ Apache, replying to Bill Hickling, 1, #538 of 1795 🔗

I tried to engage in a useful (obviously counter) discussion but the answers are so blinkered. Let it rip, how do we shield the millions of vulnerable, we are WFH etc etc. And when pushed they see the end game as inoculation. Let’s hope so but I have my fears that it will morph yet again into a NHS pressure, zero Covid idea.

361795 cloud6, replying to cloud6, 5, #539 of 1795 🔗

Can someone inform ancock there is a pandemic going on and were all going to die if we do not st.. a. h…..

Matt Hancock was seen “covered in mud” while carrying a rugby ball through a London park this afternoon the day after Boris Johnson pleaded with the nation to “stay at home this weekend”.

What does ancock not understand about the message, hypocrite…….

361815 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to cloud6, 4, #540 of 1795 🔗

I thought non-elite sport was banned.

361885 ▶▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to Now More Than Ever, 3, #541 of 1795 🔗

No doubt the definition extends to “Sport played by the elite” as well as “Sport played by elite sportsmennanwimmin”.

361840 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to cloud6, 11, #542 of 1795 🔗

He stays on message during the week because he is a responsible human being, and plays with his kids in the park on a weekend because he is a good normal guy like me or you.

If you’re struggling with this doublethink there’s probably a good quarantine camp around that could reeducate you.

361859 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Tee Ell, 7, #543 of 1795 🔗

No-one is saying he is ‘wrong’ to do it. But if he has so little self-awareness that he doesn’t recognise how this appears, when he has been preaching the ‘stay at home’ message, then he is even more arrogant than he appears to be.

361864 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Banjones, 3, #544 of 1795 🔗

It doesn’t matter. The general public have unshakeable faith in the message. He’s like a kiddy fiddling priest – it doesn’t matter what he does personally.

361954 ▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Banjones, 2, #545 of 1795 🔗

Agreed – or he could gently push at the boundaries by being outside but not really breaking the rules, in order to reinforce the real message “it’s one rule for them…” 😉

361909 ▶▶ Freddy Freethinker, replying to cloud6, 3, #546 of 1795 🔗

No doubt this is political pantomime with some Nudge Unit behavioural insight team advice thrown in for good measure.

Like in the CCP, we’re ‘advising’ you what to do, but we’re the elites and above you all, so we have different rules and there’s nothing you can do about it.

361807 cymraes78, replying to cymraes78, 9, #547 of 1795 🔗

Looking forward to reading Toby’s reply to Christopher Snowdon’s article.

He called someone a moron on Twitter a couple of days ago because they said that Covid had a 99.4% survival rate. The absolute bellend had an article in the Daily Mail back in November calling out the Gov for ruining the economy for a virus that had a 0.06% fatality rate! The man has built a career off criticising Public Health measures; now he’s coining in on defending them.

361876 ▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to cymraes78, 3, #548 of 1795 🔗

Snowden was always a lightweight…even when he was on his ‘libertarian’ trip he was somehow not very convincing. Not that I think libertarianism is the right politics anyway. It seems to me that the market is a good servant but a bad master.

Snowdon would be regarded as ‘gone over to the other side’ in wartime and its always odious to see the new converts viscously attacking their former colleagues.

He has well and truly blown any claim to be an opponent of ‘big government’.
Government does not get any bigger than in this shit show.

So its Snowden who is the moron.

361812 Bruce Reynolds, replying to Bruce Reynolds, 18, #549 of 1795 🔗

NHS leadership has just given the go ahead for a new advertising slogan to be used at all mass vaccination centers,as members of the bublic enter the building they will be greeted by the words “Arbeit macht frei “an NHS spokesperson said this slogan was used to great effect in a project not dissimilar to this one around the 1940s in Poland, six million took part in the original project so hopes are high among NHS staff that this figure can be easily eclipsed in this modern day vaccination equivalent…

361816 ▶▶ FerdIII, replying to Bruce Reynolds, 10, #550 of 1795 🔗

Vaxx macht frei?

361822 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to FerdIII, 5, #551 of 1795 🔗

Poverty macht frei?

361827 ▶▶▶ Bruce Reynolds, replying to FerdIII, 5, #552 of 1795 🔗

Good one should have used that in my comment.

361817 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Bruce Reynolds, 3, #553 of 1795 🔗


361821 ▶▶ Bruce Reynolds, replying to Bruce Reynolds, 1, #554 of 1795 🔗


361902 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to Bruce Reynolds, 2, #555 of 1795 🔗

The Final Solution?

362175 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Bruce Reynolds, 1, #556 of 1795 🔗

Kraft durch (err…) being locked in your house for 12 months.

361835 Boris Bullshit, replying to Boris Bullshit, 7, #558 of 1795 🔗

In the 1980s I was a young hard left activist. I used to read an actually quite funny newspaper called ‘Class War’. In those days the Left had a good sense of humour before the po faced Guardian types took over and bored everyone to death.

The paper had a very popular section called ‘Class Traitor of the Month’! As I remember there were candidates such as Frank Field and Michael Meacher.

Maybe we should have an amusing section here called ‘Sceptic Traitor of the Month’ ! I can think of a few suitable candidates recently.

Any other offers?

361843 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Boris Bullshit, 2, #559 of 1795 🔗

Mandy? being photographed in the company of proles?

361898 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to Boris Bullshit, 9, #560 of 1795 🔗

Any MP (too many to mention) who bleat and blather on about how we need a ‘lockdown exit strategy’ and a ‘way to save our economy’ – when they’re the b*ggers who voted for these lockdowns in the first place.
(See John Redwood’s speech the other day as an example.)

362007 ▶▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to Banjones, 6, #561 of 1795 🔗

Yes an exit strategy from what they put us into…tossers!

361836 Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 13, #562 of 1795 🔗

I received an email from my daughter’s school the other day stating that some of the so-called ‘critical worker’ parents have requested permission to keep their children at home on days when they aren’t working ‘for the children’s safety’. It’s not compulsory to do so but is an option for those who wish.

What is wrong with these people!

361847 ▶▶ mj, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 13, #563 of 1795 🔗

as long as they pick the days when the rona is in school and then send the kids in when the rona is on a day off. maybe the school can do a timetable

361919 ▶▶ WasSteph, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 7, #564 of 1795 🔗

So basically, to these people, school is a child care facility and not about education and social growth at all.
“What is wrong with these people? “. I have no idea but it’s certainly not an excess of ability to think for oneself, that’s for sure.

362022 ▶▶▶ Annie, replying to WasSteph, 9, #565 of 1795 🔗

One thing you absolutely need in school is continuity, with each lesson building on the one before.
How can you teach any subject sensibly if half the children are excluded all of the time, and half the other half some of the time?

362060 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Annie, 6, #566 of 1795 🔗

I send my child in under the critical worker banner. She gets no lessons. They are minded and given some tasks but the P1 teacher works from home and uploads recorded lessons every day. So when my duagher comes home, she has to do these lessons a way. Takes about 3 hours.

It’s a child minding service to me and I don’t care who knows it.

362039 ▶▶ John P, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 8, #567 of 1795 🔗

It’s insane. After ten months of this shit you would think the message that children are not affected by this might have got through by now.

361839 RoseE, replying to RoseE, 85, #568 of 1795 🔗

Well, I’m finally writing in the readers’ comments section which I’ve never been moved to before. I’ve been following the wise words of many of you: Annie (thanks for your heartfelt post yesterday), kh and the troubles in her café (where is it, can I come?), NorthumberlandNomad, Karenovirus, those posters who tell the trolls where to get off and many others. You have sustained me through these hateful dark days of civil liberties, freedom of speech and human rights being systematically stripped from a compliant and apparently unaware and manipulated people. I am very afraid for our future as mass unemployment and bankruptcies envelop us, as the education divide widens (by a State education which encourages a fearful workforce and a private sector which is fuelled by ambitious parents) and the declining general health of a nation through the massive catch up that the NHS will have for many years to come (if it survives at all). I was particularly appalled to read yesterday an article https://sebastianrushworth.com/2020/12/13/what-are-the-harms-of-lockdown/ posted by someone (I can’t remember who, sorry) in which doctors from the Great Ormond Street stated that “the incidence of abusive head trauma in children arriving at their hospital had increased by 1,500% in the first month of lockdown (23rd March to 23rd April), when compared with the same period in preceding years. In other words, there was a 15-fold increase in children getting beaten so badly by their caregivers that they ended up in hospital with severe head trauma.”

Yesterday I delivered 405 anti-lockdown leaflets ( backtonormalrh@yahoo.com ). At the 406th a small angry elderly woman bustled up to me in full mask (in the middle of a country village with no one in sight) and introduced herself as the Chairman/woman/person (I can’t remember which) of the Parish Council (did this mean she was speaking for and on behalf of the whole village, I wonder). With a volley of abuse she told me I was “disseminating rubbish” and lots of other nasty little words people use when they haven’t much of a coherent argument. I refused to give her my name and address which she said was mandatory because I was leafletting illegally, but I agreed to step away from her housing development and set off back to the centre of the village. She obviously scurried back to her garage to pick up her car, for the next I see of her she’s skidding to a halt, leaping out and frantically taking photos of me. While she was moving her car from an irate delivery driver she’d blocked in, I managed to hide in the pub car park and whistled up my husband to collect me in his car. As we drove serenely out, there she was whirling round the centre of the village trying to find me. I wonder what the upshot of this will be? I suspect, when she’s found out who I am, presumably by posting my blurred photo on the village FaceBook page, she will send a deputation from the Parish Council to have a ‘quiet’ word with me. Hey ho.

361848 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to RoseE, 13, #569 of 1795 🔗

A COVID vigilante!

361855 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 22, #570 of 1795 🔗

Nutjobs. What do you do when psychopathy has gone mainstream?

361851 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to RoseE, 19, #571 of 1795 🔗

My mate suggested you should have knocked her out as soon as she opened her mouth

361900 ▶▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to Cecil B, 8, #572 of 1795 🔗

If it had been a man I might have done lol.

361852 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to RoseE, 10, #573 of 1795 🔗

Hopefully she doesn’t have a coronary and not be seen in time by our Covid-obssessed health system.

361857 ▶▶ AethelredTheReadier, replying to RoseE, 15, #574 of 1795 🔗

Much kudos to you, Rose. That takes guts.

361858 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to RoseE, 5, #575 of 1795 🔗

Great post, welcome.

For anyone interested re. the figures, the increase in head trauma refers to an increase from a baseline for the month of 0.67 cases in the previous year, compared with 10 cases this year.


362081 ▶▶▶ RoseE, replying to Tee Ell, 2, #576 of 1795 🔗

Still 10 too many

362128 ▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to RoseE, 3, #577 of 1795 🔗

Agreed, I wasn’t sharing it to make a point just provide full context for those interested.

362097 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Tee Ell, 2, #578 of 1795 🔗

In fairness, the MSM are prone to reporting BS such as 300% increase in COVID patients when face with the reality of moving from 4 patients to 16 patients.

361860 ▶▶ JHUNTZ, replying to RoseE, 21, #579 of 1795 🔗

So this loony so afraid of the virus was chasing you around the village. You couldn’t make it up.

361861 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to RoseE, 21, #580 of 1795 🔗

This person told you that you were “disseminating rubbish” – You don’t say whether she had actually read it but I suspect the answer is No? This highlights the main problem I think. It doesn’t matter what you might say – minds are made up before you can even open your mouth.

361916 ▶▶▶ JHUNTZ, replying to godowneasy, 5, #581 of 1795 🔗

That can actually trigger the likes of this lot if used effectively.

“It doesn’t matter what I say you won’t change your mind so pointless discussing.”

361878 ▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to RoseE, 3, #582 of 1795 🔗

I get the impression that kh’s caff’s in Saffron Walden.

361880 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Dermot McClatchey, 19, #583 of 1795 🔗

Please … coffee shop 😉

361906 ▶▶▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to kh1485, 9, #584 of 1795 🔗

😉 You’re making a very brave stand for sanity there, kh….I was self employed for 39 years so I appreciate just how brave. Tres mucho admirazione from moi.

361907 ▶▶▶▶ penelope pitstop, replying to kh1485, 10, #585 of 1795 🔗

“The best exotic, friendly and covid hysteria free coffee shop in Essex” 🙂
There’s one for your blackboard KH!

361924 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to kh1485, 1, #586 of 1795 🔗

I bet you do a mean Americano with hot milk (our favourite).

361940 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Fingerache Philip, 14, #587 of 1795 🔗

We try …

Just now, welcomed our first feline customer, unless of course, the rozzers are getting even more desperate – CatCam!

361912 ▶▶▶ WasSteph, replying to Dermot McClatchey, 7, #588 of 1795 🔗

Yes, easily found on an internet search. Look for the trip advisor reviews moaning it’s not Covid secure!
I’m very much looking forward to a visit when I can manage to. It’s a little far away from Priti central but I hope to get there in Spring.

362098 ▶▶▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to WasSteph, 2, #589 of 1795 🔗

Can’t find it 🙁

362290 ▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Dermot McClatchey, 2, #590 of 1795 🔗

Go to TripAdvisor. Search for “cafes in Saffron Walden” then search for 1-star reviews. It is the cafe with a one-star review saying “No masks No sanitiser No distancing No real attempt at contact tracing”.

It’s far better than that, of course; the review is simply the fastest way to find the cafe!

362507 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to RichardJames, 1, #591 of 1795 🔗

Odd that these concerns were not voiced in person, but then, that type never do. Only had two people actually say anything to me. Both were abusive and both are banned for life!

362573 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to RichardJames, 1, #592 of 1795 🔗

It must be me: I still can’t find it! This would come as no surprise to more or less everybody who knows me, though……

362015 ▶▶▶ Annie, replying to Dermot McClatchey, 11, #593 of 1795 🔗

We will all meet there after the revolution.

361888 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to RoseE, 19, #594 of 1795 🔗

It stops being about ‘the virus’ and is just about someone’s overweening self-importance. I’d like to bet she is completely ignorant of any studies into it and simply swallows everything she’s told by the MSM, BBC, Johnson, etc, and that’s enough ammunition for her to use in her sad little life.
We have to remember this is probably THE most exciting thing that’s ever happened to people like her!
You’re very courageous and admirable. She isn’t.

361892 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Banjones, 7, #595 of 1795 🔗

Hear, hear.

361903 ▶▶▶ penelope pitstop, replying to Banjones, 15, #596 of 1795 🔗

true, and this shitshow has demonstrated how many of these nasty self-important people there are. They have always been around being on this committee and that parish council but this has given them a platform to exhibit to the full their self-righteous nazi streak!

Well done Rose for distributing the leaflets – it take courage in these oppressive days. (p.s. the other ‘Rose’ on here was always leafletting in london but seems to have gone awol – loved hearing her stories)

361908 ▶▶▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to penelope pitstop, 18, #597 of 1795 🔗

There are masses of these nastly little people all over the country. One good thing about this is that we can see them for what they are. They are the same kind of people who leave a sticker on your windscreen asking you not to park in front of ‘their home’ even when its a public road.

361915 ▶▶▶▶ WasSteph, replying to penelope pitstop, 5, #598 of 1795 🔗

Yes, it made me think of the other Rose. I hope she’s ok.

361921 ▶▶▶▶▶ JHUNTZ, replying to WasSteph, 3, #599 of 1795 🔗

I thought it was that very Rosie for a minute. Comments have sorely missed her resiliance.

361926 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to penelope pitstop, 2, #600 of 1795 🔗

Agree, PP.
Community spirit: Read as: “Officious busy bodies and nosy parkers”.

361890 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to RoseE, 7, #601 of 1795 🔗

I wonder how she squared her behaviour with the government’s guidance to stay at home?

361904 ▶▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to Steve Hayes, 4, #602 of 1795 🔗

Ah it does not apply to covid warriors.

361901 ▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to RoseE, 12, #603 of 1795 🔗

This woman is the type who feels she is the ‘backbone of the nation’. Truth is she is a spineless jellyfish. The best thing to do with people like that is to walk towards them of course with no mask on…they then run off in terror of getting the virus lol.

361942 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to RoseE, 8, #604 of 1795 🔗

I’m seeing Patricia Routledge in the role (in full, jowl-wobbling Hyacinth Bucket mode).

Welcome to the Island of the Day Before, Rose. You’re braver than I am.

361982 ▶▶ DanClarke, replying to RoseE, 2, #605 of 1795 🔗

Proof of the hysteria of the covid fanatics

362008 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to RoseE, 9, #606 of 1795 🔗

A Parish Council?What the fuck she thinks this is, 1823 or an episode of Vicar of Dibbley? Who is she,nobody,she has NO authority to treaten you ot take pictures of you.I understand your distress but I would tell her to go fuck herself.Keep up the good work,in my eyes you are a hero !

362024 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Thomas_E, 2, #607 of 1795 🔗

Councillors tend to be a bit full of themselves (like the appalling Perkin getting her photo opportunity here outside the Leading Light ). The previous Con. lot (voted out to get Perkin in, be careful what you wish for!) called the cops on some chap taking the piss about ‘brown envelopes’.

362199 ▶▶▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #608 of 1795 🔗

As do school governors.

362009 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to RoseE, 2, #609 of 1795 🔗

Sounds like harassment to me. I suppose her ‘defence’ is upholding the law but Plod always urge us not to take the law into our own hands.

362012 ▶▶ Annie, replying to RoseE, 2, #610 of 1795 🔗

Stand fast, RoseE.
Quiet word, eh? Say a few back.

362055 ▶▶ RoseE, replying to RoseE, 5, #611 of 1795 🔗

I’m blown away by all your replies. Thank you. I shall keep you up to date as to what happens next…

362087 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to RoseE, 15, #612 of 1795 🔗

Once upon a time a young lad got hit by a car outside, I saw it happen. He was OK but it was pretty alarming to watch. SO I set about trying to get a speed limit imposed in the residential street I live some drivers treated it like a challenging race track.

So I set about timing cars as they went through two points I had marked on the road to get an idea of how fast they were going, I timed them and wrote THE DATA down on a clip board.

Then this absolutely mental woman screeched to a halt and accused me of writing down number plates and she was the local neighbourhood watch person and that I would be reported and I had no right to take down numbers etc etc etc.

This woman was as thick as pig shit and now ranks as one of one of the nastiest people I have ever met.

There are a lot of these bastards about.

Don’t worry you haven’t committed a crime, just a crime against the covidian death cult.

The council did install their own speed monitoring equipment at my request and then did impose a 20 mph speed limit. I am sure the idiot woman wouldn’t know that it was me that got the child saving limits in place.

362187 ▶▶ JanMasarykMunich, replying to RoseE, 10, #613 of 1795 🔗

My God Almighty. Illegal leafleting??????

I’m a bit of an expert on communist era Czechoslovakia. (Translated books on it.) If you come into further contact with this commissar, please feel free to tell her from me, that she would have made an excellent communist official and should feel ashamed of herself.

What have we come to?

Thanks for leafleting.

362195 ▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to RoseE, 2, #614 of 1795 🔗

I feel sure that Roger Scruton would have approved of your actions, Rose.

362236 ▶▶ dhid, replying to RoseE, 4, #615 of 1795 🔗

I don’t know if you were putting leaflets through letterboxes, but if you were, you were doing nothing illegal, so she was lying to you about “illegal leafleting”.

This link explains the legal situation.


“next I see of her she’s skidding to a halt”

Sounds like a dangerous driver to me, I wonder if the pub (or someone else) has CCTV that might have captured her dangerous behaviour? You could post it online saying “does anyone know who this dangerous driver is?”, perhaps.

362603 ▶▶▶ RoseE, replying to dhid, 1, #616 of 1795 🔗

Yes, I did put the flyers through letterboxes, but I’m glad I have your reassurance on the matter. Thanks.

362866 ▶▶ franknhonest, replying to RoseE, 1, #617 of 1795 🔗

I delivered 190 around here last week. Managed to avoid any confrontations.

361871 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to isobar, 17, #619 of 1795 🔗

Stubborn fuckers aren’t we? 🙂

361874 ▶▶▶ isobar, replying to Tom Blackburn, 11, #620 of 1795 🔗

And hopefully always will be! 👍

361923 ▶▶ AethelredTheReadier, replying to isobar, 7, #621 of 1795 🔗

Random pictures of ambulances just lined up, obviously included by a lazy picture editor to increase the shock factor, does this article no favours but I think it’s the lazy journalism of the author that really sinks it. He cherry picks details to suit his narrow view and calls people ‘COVID sceptics’ instead of Lockdown sceptics. This is the lazy part – making out those who disagree with government policy to be denying there is a virus in the first place rather than a call for reason, balance, common sense, logic, debate etc etc. From now on, I’m calling out these journalists as ‘lazy’ for not doing their jobs properly but simply parroting what the government and SAGE say. They are a disgrace to journalism.

361949 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to AethelredTheReadier, 6, #622 of 1795 🔗

I cannot understand why you call them lazy. They seem (to me) to be extremely busy in pushing the official lies and misrepresentations and equivocations; the smears and character assassinations; the moral panic, the fear-mongering and hysteria.

361996 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #623 of 1795 🔗

Yes, they learned their trade ‘reporting’ on Thermageddon.

362043 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #624 of 1795 🔗

This is so true. Above the line today the Doctor has gone to great lengths to vakdiate the claims of that NHS nurse and the BBC, something which they clearly didn’t do before they said what they did, and he found nothing to back it up.

So what do the likes of O Neill want here? For such DRs to just shut up and join in on the hysteria? Zealots. Couldn’t be a better word for them in my mind.

362357 ▶▶ Waldorf, replying to isobar, 1, #625 of 1795 🔗

A good antidote to despair and defeatism.

361853 Smelly Melly, replying to Smelly Melly, 15, #626 of 1795 🔗

I understand that Norway has stopped vaxxing elderly people because of the high post vaccination death rate.

Also I understand that people are developing allergies after being vaxxed.

361867 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Smelly Melly, 10, #627 of 1795 🔗

Don’t get vaccinated then. Simples.

362076 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Lucan Grey, 2, #628 of 1795 🔗

No, no! They must get vaccinated; we must not.

That way, we show how caring we are, while allowing them to get rid of themselves if there are any long-term effects, and also acting as a mass-vaccine trial for us to examine the results.

I see no downside, here.

361870 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Smelly Melly, 1, #629 of 1795 🔗

They really do need to get on with it.

361914 ▶▶ JHUNTZ, replying to Smelly Melly, 1, #630 of 1795 🔗

Well done all those Patriotic Norweigens in light of the existential COVID threat. All of 500 deaths amongst a population of 5.3M

362066 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Smelly Melly, 1, #631 of 1795 🔗

Hope Sweden take notice!

362362 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Carrie, 1, #632 of 1795 🔗

What I have heard of Sweden this week they remember swine flu and narcolepsy very well and have no intention to do the same mistake again.

361875 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 44, #633 of 1795 🔗

Spot on


“Person with no symptoms, feeling perfectly fine, goes for a test for an illness they don’t have, using a not fit-for-purpose test, comes away telling others they have an illness they don’t actually have? Has there been anything madder than this in human history?”

361879 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to swedenborg, 7, #634 of 1795 🔗

Witch trials?

361985 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #635 of 1795 🔗

When I was at school The Crucible was all the rage because of HUAC. All that seems very relevant now.

361979 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to swedenborg, 2, #636 of 1795 🔗

Being forced to have a vaccine against the dread disease?

361883 TC, replying to TC, 11, #637 of 1795 🔗

Lord Sumption on BBC Nicky Campbell show now but he appears very much alone at present with no back up scientist or clinician.

361895 ▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to TC, 1, #638 of 1795 🔗

Indeed. The likes of Carl Heneghan, Sunetra Gupta and Michael Levitt have been worryingly quiet of late.

361911 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Dermot McClatchey, 10, #639 of 1795 🔗

Suspect Heneghan is in the process of proving the false positive rate for the PCR test

Then the whole shit show falls apart

361941 ▶▶▶▶ WasSteph, replying to Cecil B, 5, #640 of 1795 🔗

We can only hope

362082 ▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Cecil B, -9, #641 of 1795 🔗

It doesn’t. The FPR issue is a red herring.

We know there are FPs but we also know there is a trend. It is the trajectory of that trend which is important.

ZOE confirms that trend. In fact ZOE is the leading indicator of that trend.

362113 ▶▶▶▶▶ rockoman, replying to Mayo, 6, #642 of 1795 🔗

What counts is not so much the FPR but that the PCR has been inappropriately used.

The trajectory of the trend reflects the seasonality of coronaviruses.

Self-reported symptoms are subjective and therefore pointless.

361896 ▶▶ TC, replying to TC, 7, #643 of 1795 🔗

Correction Dr John Lee is on too.

361927 ▶▶▶ Adamb, replying to TC, 23, #644 of 1795 🔗

I think John Lee gets my vote as best commentator/critic throughout this whole thing. Perfect balance of science, reason and humanity. Sumption deserves huge credit for taking a stand from a legal and civil rights point of view.

361946 ▶▶▶▶ WasSteph, replying to Adamb, 12, #645 of 1795 🔗

And Lord Sumption on the non-scientific side. A giant amongst thinkers. Sadly the pygmies take no notice.

361976 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Adamb, 5, #646 of 1795 🔗

Agree, having recently lost his wife (pre covid) makes it a bit harder for zealots to attack too.

362006 ▶▶▶▶ Annie, replying to Adamb, 3, #647 of 1795 🔗

Agree.Both are on my heroes list.

361992 ▶▶ TC, replying to TC, 7, #648 of 1795 🔗

Sadly, too short a programme.
My wife (non sceptic) thought it reasonably well balanced.
I would have liked a statistician on it because so much of the debate (or lack of it) is in the numbers.
One video participanr referred to 100000 deaths without challenge and claimed the foundation of anti lockdown positions was eugenics – the last point robustly rebutted by Lord Sumption.
However, overall a better attempt to allow differing views to the official line to be aired, some from the harmed constituencies such as students, mental health etc.
It would have needed much longer and a structured agenda to be a better debate.
But then, even if it had been, how many viewers would drop their blinkers and start thinking for themselves?
We live in hope.

362044 ▶▶▶ concrete68, replying to TC, 4, #649 of 1795 🔗

I would have thought that letting old people die was the opposite of eugenics…

363027 ▶▶▶ iansn, replying to TC, #650 of 1795 🔗

he was a bit of a weirdo, seemed to have lots of conspiracy theories too. He was basically cut of in the end.

363024 ▶▶ iansn, replying to TC, #651 of 1795 🔗

DR Death Callum Semple there to, all the character of a dead haddock, no empathy, just plough on regardless with the party line. Disagreeing and dismissing with perfectly sensible points raise by a GP. We do not need your opinion Mr Semple however highly you regard yourself.

361894 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 6, #652 of 1795 🔗

Siamo Aperti! Great words to hear – what? what?

361897 ▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #653 of 1795 🔗


361905 ▶▶ JHUNTZ, replying to Ned of the Hills, 4, #654 of 1795 🔗

How dare you. Minus 50 social credit points.

361971 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Ned of the Hills, 3, #655 of 1795 🔗

‘Pulcinella’ calzone from takeaway being operated by local Italian last night. Cooked by the boss in the proper oven and handed to me by the pretty waitress. A start at least. Couldn’t buy any wine so had to make do with nice Primitivo from Puglia from Morrisions.

362003 ▶▶ Annie, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #656 of 1795 🔗


361920 Naomi, replying to Naomi, 28, #657 of 1795 🔗

The lockdown zealots have a lot in common with politicians- most notably a disgusting lack of respect for our elderly.
Since when did vulnerable/elderly = unable to absorb health-related information, and make an informed choice about how best to lead their lives?
The virtue signallers claiming to be saving lives by adhering to the rules are equal parts feeble-minded and arrogant…they are living, deficiently-oxygenated, paradoxes.
How many vulnerable folk are likely to thank them, if it ever even occurs to them to enquire from atop their ivory towers?
My findings are both inspiring and heartbreaking, having enquired of elderly relatives, and those of friends.
Unanimously, they wish for normality….covid risk and all. I’ve heard expressed anger, insult, sadness, loneliness, and guilt. The latter because they can perfectly see the adverse effects from lockdowns on their younger loved ones, implemented entirely unbidden in their name. It’s an aspect that should have been obvious, and yet hadn’t occurred to me.
The chicken shit zealots are projecting their terror onto those who are undaunted, either through a genuine, media-propagated fear of death, or of returning to their empty and anonymous pre-lockdown existences.
Either way, they need to be ignored. Anger and/or pity would be focusing attention upon a group who have, thus far, proved themselves undeserving.
I’ve spent the past couple of weeks alternating between fury and despair- wanting to scream from rooftops, and accost outdoor mask-wearers. Upon reflection….what a waste of emotion. Fuck winning them over! Nobody led us here by the nose. If they deserve a place amongst us, they’ll find their own way. If not, then the likes of BJ, and his vinegar-lactating counterpart in Holyrood, are welcome to them.
However, I’ve becoming disheartened by what I deem to be an ineffectual approach to counter this madness at the top level. Are any of us convinced that they truly believe the errant bile they peddle, that their imposed measures are effective, or at the very least, well-meaning, yet misguided?
I don’t know what their objective is but my gut tells me that the longer it drags on, the better it serves them. That aside, why the fuck should we be the ones playing defence, meekly delivering irrefutable reason in the face of delirium?
“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”
This quote has been repeatedly cited to highlight the absurdity of lockdowns, and yet I feel it’s now equally attributable to the countermeasures of sceptics.
Is there hope of winning through, staying the current course?

362000 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Naomi, 3, #658 of 1795 🔗

That’s what hurts me greatly. Nobody gets a voice in this. Except Gabriel Scallywag and his ilk. Michie and Greenlaugh high on my list anyway

362064 ▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to Naomi, 11, #659 of 1795 🔗

Only socialists demand justification for individual autonomy & freedom. My only response to that authoritarianism of lockdown, is no one should have the right to take one man’s freedom for another man’s safety.

I don’t have to or should I need to offer a defence for my freedom!

If people are terrified of breathing unfiltered air in social environments my freedom doesn’t stop them cowering from life & hiding from a virus under their beds & if granny (who has lived her life) is worried about covid she can hide in her home too.

One man’s “rights” takes away another man’s freedoms!

I say fuck right off to covid hysteria.

362170 ▶▶ JanMasarykMunich, replying to Naomi, 4, #660 of 1795 🔗

Are any of us convinced that they truly believe the errant bile they peddle, that their imposed measures are effective, or at the very least, well-meaning, yet misguided?

It is perplexing and hard to believe, but I reckon that a good number of politicians are quite simply dim. Here in CH parliamentarians were asked where they get their Covid info from. Large majority: the media.

And the ‘journalists’? Well, also dim, I’m afraid.

At the ‘conspiracy’/WEF level, I think a lot of people genuinely think they are ‘saving the planet/humankind. And then, the ends (saving lives/the planet) justifies the means (propaganda, enormous suffering, ‘collateral damage).

361922 penelope pitstop, replying to penelope pitstop, 25, #661 of 1795 🔗

So now they are looking at ‘quarantine hotels’ for all returning passengers like in NZ.
As if people’s lives aren’t miserable enough, or they haven’t quite killed the tourist industry enough. Of course their mates and all those lovely ‘exempted’ persons who clearly couldn’t have the virus, will not be subject to this.
Honestly, I believe this whole scam is playing towards the green agenda with every new piece of the jigsaw being moved into place. They really don’t want the serfs to travel which will be restricted to the rich and privileged.

361939 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to penelope pitstop, 8, #662 of 1795 🔗

Tourist and airline industries proving to be too resilient. Must… kill them… faster

361962 ▶▶▶ JHUNTZ, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 8, #663 of 1795 🔗

The airline industry has been awfully quiet. Makes you wonder what’s been agreed?

361970 ▶▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to JHUNTZ, 16, #664 of 1795 🔗

It has. I work in it and my company briefly tried to push for the abolition of the quarantine period in favour of rapid airport testing (not my preferred solution of course, I would scrap the lot, but better than no business at all).

Lately, everyone seems to be on message. Airlines UK, the trade body for UK airlines said that it supports the current measures provided that they are ended at the right time. This statement came about at almost exactly the same time that the supermarkets changed policy on masks.

Who knows what has been said at the highest levels? It isn’t shared with us plebs, that’s for sure!

361980 ▶▶▶▶▶ JHUNTZ, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 6, #665 of 1795 🔗

Yes, it certainly doesn’t make any sense that the airline industry are not at least screaming for an end date to these restrictions. This is the shit that hopefully is exposed after this. Follow the money follow the shady deals.

361991 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to JHUNTZ, 4, #666 of 1795 🔗

Ryan Air are expanding their fleet. Bilderberg attendee Ryan. Just saying.

Be a good time to invest in their stock perhaps.

362032 ▶▶▶▶▶ JHUNTZ, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 5, #667 of 1795 🔗

Ah that benevolent bilderberg lot that meet yearly behind close doors to discuss how they are going to fuck the working class for the next 12 months.

Interesting tip I am trying to avoid the stock market for the time being though as I do expect it to implode.

362109 ▶▶▶▶ rockoman, replying to JHUNTZ, 4, #668 of 1795 🔗

Look at ownership and control structures.

Regardless of industry it all comes back to the same few.

They will be quite ready to see the bankruptcy of their airlines because they will more than that back on their other holdings – in big tech and pharma.

362351 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to JHUNTZ, 1, #669 of 1795 🔗

Look at teb WTTC webiste, see it’s controlled by WEF minions, see the “new normal guidleines” their signatories are signing up to then ask the question again.

361947 ▶▶ isobar, replying to penelope pitstop, 14, #670 of 1795 🔗

I think that you are spot on. Covid-19 has been ‘weaponised’ to drive the green agenda and in many places the anti-alcohol agenda as well.

361955 ▶▶ JHUNTZ, replying to penelope pitstop, 6, #671 of 1795 🔗

Im sure it was journalists and bankers that were exempt from quarantine and therefore presumably can’t catch COVID?

There laughing right in right in front of our faces…..

362095 ▶▶ Hellonearth, replying to penelope pitstop, 10, #672 of 1795 🔗

It absolutely is. Old bonkers Bojo has been tweeting about looking forward to the G7 summit in June, welcoming leaders from all over the world to discuss our greener and fairer new society. I assume all these leaders will be getting in their private jets and not having to quarantine when they arrive. Fairer society my arse.

362151 ▶▶▶ penelope pitstop, replying to Hellonearth, 4, #673 of 1795 🔗

their “greener and fairer” society means imprisoning the proletariat while the “elites” go swaning around the globe on holiday and conferences.
And yes, if this ‘quarantine’ (aka imprisonment) is enforced it should be for ALL with no exemptions. You can be sure once implemented it will take some years to be stopped you can be sure as the hotels who have been losing money will be huge winners – cui bono!
I hope that it would be so difficult to implement especially with the ferries and channel tunnel etc that they drop this idea. You can imagine eurostar train coming into St Pancreas to be met by armed guards escorting the passengers to their ‘final destination’.
If this doesn’t ring alarm bells i don’t know what would. When will the sheep wake up to all this shit when it’s so obvious the chess pieces being moved on the board until its check mate!?

361930 Will, replying to Will, 1, #674 of 1795 🔗

I know they changed the law in Sweden to enable lockdown but is anyone aware whether they have actually shut their schools, shops, bars etc?

361987 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Will, 5, #675 of 1795 🔗

I’m pretty sure that if they had, all the MSM in unison would have let us know about it by now.

362062 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Will, 6, #676 of 1795 🔗

No they have not closed all schools, although I think most upper secondary schools are doing distance learning again, like they did last Spring. And no, shops are not shut, although smaller ones seem to have imposed a maximum number of people who can be in the shop at any one time – this seems to be dependent on the size of the building. Yesterday I was in a big place whose maximum was 150 but smaller shops in town have around a 25 person limit. Banks were imposing limits on numbers in their branches from before Christmas, as was the unemployment office where staff interview people in the queue and only let in people whose questions cannot be answered outside.
One new thing – annoying – is that my library has closed for the time being – you can’t even order books.
Cafes/restaurants still seem to be open.
Where I live, the bus company recommends masks between 7-9 am and 4-6 pm, but I haven’t travelled at that time to see if they try and enforce it. At other times it seems that more people are wearing masks than not – interestingly younger people!

362096 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Carrie, 3, #677 of 1795 🔗

Thank you for that Carrie and good to hear from you!!!

362101 ▶▶▶ rockoman, replying to Carrie, 7, #678 of 1795 🔗

Younger people are more susceptible to the international narrative transmitted by social media, and very aware of attitudes in peer groups.

It is pure symbolism and virtue signalling.

362271 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Carrie, 1, #679 of 1795 🔗

Carrie you’re back!!

361932 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 17, #680 of 1795 🔗

This morning on the BBC’s Andrew Marr show Sir Simon Stevens, NHS CEO, was provided with a platform to push the official narrative. He appeared stood outside a hospital in a shirt with his sleeves rolled up. I could not help but wonder how much time the experts in propaganda spent deciding on that image.

361967 ▶▶ DanClarke, replying to Steve Hayes, 6, #681 of 1795 🔗

Its a Blair thing, he does it every time

361977 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress 2021, replying to Steve Hayes, 7, #682 of 1795 🔗

He should have been sacked for gross incompetence months ago. Interesting fact – he was at Balliol with Doris and Rupert Reid, the Extinction Rebellion shill.

361988 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Steve Hayes, 11, #683 of 1795 🔗

I used to think the rolled up sleeves thing was a hygenie requirement. But yen I realised I have seen many a doctor roaming around the hospital in many a long sleeve.

It’s pure image management. ‘A man who’s getting stuck in’

362321 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #684 of 1795 🔗
361933 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 4, #685 of 1795 🔗


361937 ▶▶ John P, replying to Cecil B, 9, #686 of 1795 🔗


361945 ▶▶ JHUNTZ, replying to Cecil B, 16, #687 of 1795 🔗

This has been discussed in a select committe in parliament that stated that a vax could not be made mandatory by means of coercion.

Given that many in the NHS alone will refuse the vax I don’t think the government could realistically take this measure.

361973 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress 2021, replying to JHUNTZ, 28, #688 of 1795 🔗

One of the fundamental problems for mandatory/coercive pressure is the BAME community. If 75% are not going to take it, the powers that be have a stark choice – mandate it for all and stand by and watch riots from the BAME community, or mandate it for the non-BAME community and prepare for the discrimination lawsuits. The BAME community may well have come to the rescue for those of us who are not anti-vaccination, but very anti this experimental, and largely completely unnecessary vaccine.

362317 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Cecil B, #689 of 1795 🔗

Dib dib dib, dob dob dob.

361936 John P, replying to John P, 9, #690 of 1795 🔗

Regarding the assertion about the origins of this virus.

The claims about a lab origin (totally unprovable either way, but that won’t stop state actors pushing it) may be a part of a drive to make this virus seem like a unique threat.

The claim tend to support the narrative of the state.

361981 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to John P, 6, #691 of 1795 🔗

Lab origin seems the only thing that can be proven in my view. Those scientists who say it is are basing their judgement on the genetic code, not on any money trail yet. So on a technical level I assume certain markers can be indicative of a lab grown variant

This has happened before. The Spanish flu variant H1N1 was seeing outbreaks in the 50s because it was being held in labs.

Shows you how nonsensical the idea that a crappy mask will prevent transmission of such viruses is when the lab workers can’t even avoid it with all the help in the world.

362045 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to John P, 2, #692 of 1795 🔗

And if a state created it that’s why state action can’t defeat nature – because it’s not natural! Yay! The state is still supreme and glorious!

361938 redbirdpete, replying to redbirdpete, 12, #693 of 1795 🔗

I wonder if the absence in most of the population of any concept of an afterlife is behind much of the hysteria? After all, we don’t normally think about death, and yet governments have been shoving the fear of imminent death down everyone’s throat for 10 months – and for many of those people there is no consolation. I’m not saying an afterlife is real, even though i personally have faith that there is such – but the consolation IS real.

Just trying to explain the mindless desperation of Covidians, that’s all.

361957 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to redbirdpete, 4, #694 of 1795 🔗

Just accepting the inevitable (and making some preparations) is a start. I wear my Delingpod We’re all going to die! ‘Rainbow Worrier’ mask with pride. The pretty waitress helping out with takeaway pizzas at the Italian restaurant liked it.

361969 ▶▶ penelope pitstop, replying to redbirdpete, 17, #695 of 1795 🔗

most of the population don’t look past the next Strictly Come Dancing or Love Island TV show i’m afraid. Never mind an afterlife! They have been so dumbed down by inadequate education and social media etc

362018 ▶▶▶ JHUNTZ, replying to penelope pitstop, 18, #696 of 1795 🔗

I can’t tell you the amount of times people have been horrified when I tell them I don’t have twitter/ instagram/ snapchat and I don’t watch love island/ geordie shore/ only way is essex.

I am not at all surprised at the population response, sickened nonetheless.

362042 ▶▶▶ norfolksceptic, replying to penelope pitstop, 14, #697 of 1795 🔗

Agreed – just had to explain to some supermarket staff that just because they saw the government say something on TV it doesn’t mean it was true !! Even behind their masks you could see them look at bit shocked !!

361997 ▶▶ Annie, replying to redbirdpete, 22, #698 of 1795 🔗

I wonder.
Christians of all denominations are supposed to believe in an afterlife, and that Jesus ‘put an end to death by dying for us’, but the response of the Christian churches has been the most cowardly of all.

362025 ▶▶▶ peyrole, replying to Annie, 3, #699 of 1795 🔗

The RC Church in particular has always had leanings towards totalitarian regimes. That is because it is one itself.

362034 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to peyrole, 4, #700 of 1795 🔗

The Catholic church was greatly reformed in the latter part of the twentieth century.

362071 ▶▶▶▶▶ DavidDLM, replying to John P, 6, #701 of 1795 🔗

It’s interesting to note that most C of E churches in London are closed but the Catholic churches are mostly still open.

362031 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Annie, 9, #702 of 1795 🔗

Yes, the behaviour of the various Christian denominations over this has been shameful.

362315 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to John P, 3, #703 of 1795 🔗

Greek Orthodox a notable exception.

362345 ▶▶▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 3, #704 of 1795 🔗

In Greece they closed up in April even though it was Easter. That was the case in Athens. In Serbia a senior Orthodox clergyman was arrested after refusing to close down due to Covid. I would say the Orthodox resisted more than Catholics or Protestants but it was certainly not total.

362234 ▶▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to Annie, 4, #705 of 1795 🔗

Our vicar is in her mid 70s but is determined to keep holding services as long as the churches are open and tries to make them enjoyable. Her husband takes me to church currently in a big van which I struggle to climb into as I’m short and disabled.He keeps asking me to wear a mask and I refuse as I can’t breathe so I compromise by holding a very thin scarf in front of my face.

362017 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to redbirdpete, 4, #706 of 1795 🔗

I’ve thought this since the start. Previous generations – although certainly still seeing death as something to be avoided as long as possible – did not fear it as they had the Christian certainty of a life beyond. Not now.

362083 ▶▶▶ Hellonearth, replying to Now More Than Ever, 5, #707 of 1795 🔗

I agree with your statement. I am not a young person but am one of those none believers. I can’t change my mindset, as far as I am concerned when I die it will be the same as before I was born, nothingness. I often wish I was going up to meet my parents and people I have loved, it would make the thought of death a bit more palatable. Some great minds have been atheists, so I don’t consider myself stupid just less happy sometimes than my christian counterparts.

362544 ▶▶▶▶ DavidDLM, replying to Hellonearth, 1, #708 of 1795 🔗

Belief in God is not necessarily synonymous with belief in an afterlife, although they are commonly associated. It’s perfectly possible to believe in God but not an afterlife, e.g. the Sadducee’s in the New Testament who denied the resurrection. Equally you can be an atheist but still believe in some form of afterlife.

362190 ▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to redbirdpete, 5, #709 of 1795 🔗

I don’t think there can be any doubt that the draining-away- over the past couple of hundred years at least- of any communally-held sense of religious belief must have a significant effect on the way people react to what for the sake of this post I’ll call an existential crisis. The religious impulse itself is intrinsically- communal.

361964 frankfrankly, replying to frankfrankly, 23, #710 of 1795 🔗

Masking: do the vape test! put a mask on, inhale & then exhale the vapour, then see it billow out in clouds through the front and sides of the mask. If the mask doesn’t stop that, how can it have any effect on a virus measured in microns? If this video was played on national tv, after people stopped laughing the mask mandate wouldn’t last 5 minutes. That of course is why the media won’t show it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BslFT9cKZwc

361974 ▶▶ John P, replying to frankfrankly, 21, #711 of 1795 🔗

This was done months and months ago.

You need to understand that the government (state) will push it’s narratives irrespective of evidence.

Propaganda is powerful.

Despite the fact (FACT!) that masks are an ineffective joke they are still pushed and mandated.

That is what Johnson wants and it will continue until he is ejected from number ten and replaced by someone who does not support it.

361966 BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 9, #712 of 1795 🔗

Mentioned here yesterday but certainly looks legit as its been reported by a number of South American news outlets now.

“Un tribunal peruano ha afirmado en una resolución basada en teorías conspirativas que la Covid-19 fue una invención de las “élites criminales a nivel mundial” conformadas, según los magistrados de esta corte, por multimillonarios como George Soros, la familia Rockefeller y el empresario Bill Gates.”

A Peruvian Tribunal has signed a resolution based on conspiracy theories (they had to say this of course) that Covid-19 is an invention of ‘criminal elites of the new world order’, who, according to the judges, include Bill Gates, George Soros and the Rockefeller family.


361990 ▶▶ Annie, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 5, #713 of 1795 🔗

‘has declared in a resolution’, not ‘has signed’. Just for the sake of accuracy.

362001 ▶▶ JHUNTZ, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #714 of 1795 🔗

Thanks for sharing this bebop appreciate the help translating.

362130 ▶▶ Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 6, #715 of 1795 🔗

Sounds like I’m moving to Peru then.

361972 tony rattray, replying to tony rattray, 10, #716 of 1795 🔗

A picture is worth a thousand words!

Oh the irony for people queuing up to get their covid jabs in an otherwise empty n ightingale hospital in glasgow . Remember, we are at the most dangerous moment of being overwhelmed by bullshit!

Covid in Scotland: Mass vaccination of health and care staff begins – BBC News

361995 ▶▶ JHUNTZ, replying to tony rattray, 4, #717 of 1795 🔗

Look at all those patriots on the front line. Blessed be thee.

361999 ▶▶ Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, replying to tony rattray, 4, #718 of 1795 🔗

The Clappers aren’t capable of rational thought, not even wondering why the ‘hospital’ is empty. Surely the controllers are taking the piss.

362013 ▶▶▶ tony rattray, replying to Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, 5, #719 of 1795 🔗

Also the pathetic bbc! I thought the nhs was about to collapse with covid demand in scotland as per the wee krankie daily boring updates and dictates!

362183 ▶▶▶ Annie, replying to Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, 1, #720 of 1795 🔗

Going like the clappers.

362421 ▶▶ Janette, replying to tony rattray, #721 of 1795 🔗

This makes me feel sick!

361984 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 4, #722 of 1795 🔗

when people go into hospital these days do they repeatedly test them for covid?

even at a FP rate of 2.8% (central PHE estimate from when testing was far less and done by trained staff), having 1 test a day for 28 days gives a probability of at least one false positive of 55%. And that makes you a covid case/death etc

362010 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to steve_w, 2, #723 of 1795 🔗

They do repeatedly test, but not daily.

362041 ▶▶ RickH, replying to steve_w, 1, #724 of 1795 🔗

I think it tends to be about every three days.

But a good basic point.

362048 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to RickH, 2, #725 of 1795 🔗

so a person without covid, tested every 3 days for 28 days will have a false positive chance of 23%

362063 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to steve_w, 7, #726 of 1795 🔗

Add in the fact that it seems to be the case that you are hugely more likely to catch the virus in hospital than almost anywhere else, and it would strike me that it’s odds on that every patient is going to end up testing positive over the course of a hospital stay much longer than an outpatient appointment.

And then there’s the fact that care home residents are tested weekly in ordinary times, and that any admission to hospital for any reason subsequent to a +ve test is classed as a Covid admission in the stats (and I would think that a care home resident is more likely to need hospital treatment than most of the population) and you’ve got yourself an apparent crisis right there, without having to break a sweat.

362075 ▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to matt, 2, #727 of 1795 🔗

yes, this is what I’m trying to get at. the prevalence in hospitals is higher than in the community, much of false positives in PCR testing come from contamination and so the false positive rate is going to be higher for hospital tests. If you accept a ‘covid’ patient or deaths being anyone who has at least 1 positive test in the last 28 days and you keep testing them then you have a very high chance of finding them +ve (far higher than the raw FP rate for 1 test)

Its clear to me that this is what gives the 1200 or so ‘deaths’ a day which aren’t reflected in the overall mortality

a classic casedemic

362089 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to steve_w, 2, #728 of 1795 🔗

Precisely. I refused the last Covid test I was asked to take, primarily on the grounds that I wouldn’t undergo an extremely uncomfortable nose swab for a test that had no stable validity.

362093 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to RickH, 1, #729 of 1795 🔗

at a more likely 5% FPR, having a test every 3 days for a month gives only a 62% chance you get a negative every time

362084 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to steve_w, 1, #730 of 1795 🔗

It’s possibly much higher if you include the detection of irrelevant RNA strands.

362052 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to steve_w, #731 of 1795 🔗

My son was in hospital a week, had two tests.

362180 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to steve_w, #732 of 1795 🔗

It’s on arrival and at least every 4 days after. You can’t be discharged without testing negative. Open to being wrong but that’s wha

361993 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 11, #733 of 1795 🔗

Zoe update

latest R= 0.72 (on 12th Jan), continuing to fall roughly linearly and is below the R=0.85 that the first wave bottomed out at

362004 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to steve_w, 7, #734 of 1795 🔗

daily new infections 38% below peak (that’s below this peak, this current seasonal wave is about 1/3 of the March/April wave)

362020 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to steve_w, 3, #735 of 1795 🔗

Zoe doesn’t graph the daily new infections but graphs the total currently infected (presumed from self-reported symptoms)

you can see it here – it lags the daily new infections graph by about 5 days


362035 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to steve_w, #736 of 1795 🔗

Thank you.

362021 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to steve_w, 3, #737 of 1795 🔗

When you say “infections” do you mean positive tests results? (Not the same thing!)

And what test was used to determine this number? The differing tests give different results.

362036 ▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to John P, 5, #738 of 1795 🔗

Self-reported symptoms from Zoe app users. I have spent a lot of time analysing data from various sources. I have the impression that this is the best dataset there is. It is real-time, doesn’t care about asymptomatics or false positives from dodgy tests. It will miss some covid and it will confuse some colds for covid – its just an online questionnaire, not a clinical diagnosis.

If the government had had this dataset only we wouldn’t have had any lockdown. R was clearly below 1 before any of the 3 lockdowns were imposed.

362050 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to steve_w, 3, #739 of 1795 🔗

I have the impression that this is the best dataset there is”

I think you’re right – in its raw sense of mapping a particular perception of illness. But how it relates to SARS-CoV-2 is problematic, given the almost infinitely extensible number of symptoms that have got hitched to the Covid train. It might also be a measure of the prevalence of induced hypochondria.

Of course – this is our fundamental problem : we simply do not know what is the incidence of Covid. The cynical might suggest that this is a deliberate data malfunction.

362086 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to RickH, 4, #740 of 1795 🔗

I think Zoe has been shown to be a lot closer to the reality than anything produced by the ONS since they, mysteriously, stopped doing their surveys… and it helps that Spector doesn’t believe in lockdowns.

362106 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Will, 3, #741 of 1795 🔗

yes, and the ONS is always looking 2 weeks behind.

anyone who really looks at the data can’t believe in lockdowns (I think the ones that do just look at models) – just like anyone who looks at cost benefit analysis can’t believe in lockdowns (the ones who do have ignored the cost part)

362056 ▶▶▶▶▶ rockoman, replying to steve_w, 1, #742 of 1795 🔗


self-reported symtoms are worthless and have been shown to be worthless.

They are far too subjective to tell us anything.

362100 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to rockoman, 6, #743 of 1795 🔗

I respectfully disagree. Self-reported symptoms are the main data input for health services and always have been. That’s why you talk to your GP rather than just send a sample of bodily fluids to a lab and wait the results

362264 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to rockoman, 1, #744 of 1795 🔗

It’s not just based on self-reported symptoms though. These are followed up with a test and then there is lots of complicated stuff behind the scenes extrapolating out to calculate how many people with which particular symptoms are actually covid cases.

Of course it’s not perfect, but it always predicts rises and falls very accurately from what I’ve seen.

362257 ▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to steve_w, 2, #745 of 1795 🔗

Some might say that the govt only locked down precisely because they knew that R was already below 1… to show that lockdowns “work”.

362019 ▶▶ John P, replying to steve_w, 8, #746 of 1795 🔗

There’s only one “wave” and that was in April.

Actually, I’m not even sure it can accurately be described as a “wave”. It was more a spike, possibly related to the lockdown itself.

The so-called “wave” was really an anomaly. Something out of the ordinary.

Viral respiratory infection is seasonal and has a wave like appearance on graphs. This Winter is no different.

362027 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to John P, 9, #747 of 1795 🔗

I agree – I’m just using common terms. This current ‘thing’ has the clear signature of a seasonal virus – 1 of the 200 that go round and covid appears to be making up around 10% of the approximately 400,000 new ‘cold’ infections we would expect every day at this part of the year. It’s hard on the frail – but then so are the others. Normal winters give us 40,000 deaths more in Dec/Jan/Feb than the surrounding months and these are due to ‘colds’ knocking over the soon to be departed.

362037 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to steve_w, 10, #748 of 1795 🔗

John has a point, Steve.

The term ‘wave’ was deliberately used as a propaganda tool in order to continue to scare the shit out of people.

What we have seen since August is just a normal seasonal rise in mortality.

We have no way of knowing how much of this can be attributed to Covid – although it is likely that the now endemic virus will contribute something.

But a returning ‘wave’ – it isn’t.

362046 ▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to RickH, 5, #749 of 1795 🔗

I agree he has a point. But as far as I am concerned we have a wave of infections every winter and this one is no different. I don’t mind either using the word wave or something else. My original comment was ‘ current seasonal wave’

362051 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to steve_w, 4, #750 of 1795 🔗

The problem with the word “wave” is that this word is one of the main words being used by the government as part of it’s propaganda drive.

When you use it – even in it’s “traditional” sense – you confirm in people’s minds that the word is a legitimate description if the situation we are in.

It’s usage supports the government narrative.

362053 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to John P, 1, #751 of 1795 🔗

I agree – tell me what word to use and I’ll use that – ‘seasonal cycle’?

362078 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to steve_w, 5, #752 of 1795 🔗

Or ‘seasonal rise’. I think that’s the correct approach, Steve, now that the term ‘wave’ has been so contaminated by its use in propaganda.

It also distinguishes it from a real ‘wave’ or ‘spike’.

362088 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to RickH, 2, #753 of 1795 🔗

Well, we are definitely in a seasonal fall now!

362108 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to steve_w, 3, #754 of 1795 🔗

Which – if confirmed by the ONS all-cause data – will be what many of us would have predicted as part of the ‘nothing unusual’ scenario.

I’ve found that my predictions so far have, up to press, been considerably more accurate than models quoted by SAGE – by many orders of magnitude..

So, with due humility, I see no reason to change the basis now.

362112 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to steve_w, 1, #755 of 1795 🔗

If we have a wave every year it’s not distinct which is the point of calling it a “wave”. It’s natural variation – or background noise

362123 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to RickH, #756 of 1795 🔗

It’s a tide, since it tends to have a predictable period.

362061 ▶▶▶ rockoman, replying to John P, 5, #757 of 1795 🔗


The spike in March/April was vastly different from the more gradual hump characterisic of an epidemic’s progress through a population.

As you say the spike indicates a sudden change in conditions – ie lockdown and the clearing out of patients from hospitals to care homes.

362069 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to rockoman, 3, #758 of 1795 🔗

That is the give-away. Any intelligent observer saw something unusual happening in April. That was not the case in the autumn.

362110 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to John P, 3, #759 of 1795 🔗

Yep. The second “wave” was a classic example of suggestion. If we keep saying there will be one, whatever comes we can call it that. And then we can keep adjusting figures because it HAS to be that.

If we could just harness the power of circular thinking then we could light a good few houses

362254 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to steve_w, #760 of 1795 🔗

When you say the first wave bottomed out at 0.85, was that a Zoe calculation from that time, or a govt/SAGE-issued number?

362011 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 14, #761 of 1795 🔗

I note the comments below (or above) about the ruling of a Peruvian Court

Some of you may remember my post of late April 2020

This morning I had a vision whilst visiting a public toilet in Saffron Walden. In the vision Paddington Bear appeared to me and and said ‘When the Brazilian stalks the land I will come forth and save you’

I said at the time I didn’t understand the message. The village elders put the vision down to the dodgy mutton tikka I had partaken of the previous night

I have been looking for signs ever since. I admit I was looking in the wrong place. My approaches to people in the street asking them to describe their pubic hairstyles earned me an anti social behaviour restraining order

However I have been vindicated and salvation is at hand.

Saint Cecil of Saffron Waldon has a certain ring to it

362028 ▶▶ Freddy Freethinker, replying to Cecil B, 5, #762 of 1795 🔗

So you’re saying a marmalade sandwich cures covid-19?

362038 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Freddy Freethinker, 7, #763 of 1795 🔗

I’ve just invested £1.5m in marmalade futures

362047 ▶▶ John P, replying to Cecil B, 3, #764 of 1795 🔗

What medication were you taking at the time Cecil?

362026 RickH, replying to RickH, 33, #765 of 1795 🔗

Gritting my teeth this morning and watching the irritating Nicky Campbell chairing a forum on BBC 1, having been alerted to it by John Lee.

I don’t know how long I can stand it, although, despite Campbell, there are some really good participants (including Johns Sumption Lee).

Clearly the fearful Covidians wallow around in a sentimental feel-goodery that can never be the basis of public health policy. Especially when you haven’t got any grasp of the actual size of the problem and the desperate consequences of current policy.

The star idiot is Professor Semple from Liverpool – who is a breathing illustration that you can be a medical academic at the highest level, and still operate at an abysmal level of rationality and knowledge.

It is interesting that there has been no mention of one of the elephants in the room – the key fact that this is in no way an ‘unprecedented’ event, being well within the range of the impact of previous viral event. It seems that the narrative has managed to eliminate this key aspect of the truth.

362058 ▶▶ Luckyharry69, replying to RickH, 4, #766 of 1795 🔗

I could only stand it for a few minutes…OFF button…watched the brilliant Scarlet Street with Edward G Robinson and Joan Bennett…call me old fashioned……

362065 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Luckyharry69, 8, #767 of 1795 🔗

I can understand any emetic reaction to Campbell – I have the same.

But you actually missed some really good contributors – surprisingly much more evenly balanced than the usual BBC fare.

Of course, I will be accused of confirmation bias, but the weight of rational credibility was heavily on the sceptic side.

362067 ▶▶ Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, replying to RickH, 7, #768 of 1795 🔗

But if you kick the central pillar of the Clappers’ argument out, the BBC will have nothing to talk about. It’s better to keep the BBC busy, that way they have less time to fuck children.

362107 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress 2021, replying to RickH, 1, #769 of 1795 🔗

Was Malcolm, aka Calum, Semple sporting one of his tweed vests (as the Americans call them)?

362136 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Tyneside Tigress 2021, 2, #770 of 1795 🔗

I think so. But I was more aware of the way he dribbled nonsense down it 🙂

362211 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress 2021, replying to RickH, 1, #771 of 1795 🔗

Quite. He certainly has a collection of nonsense.

362149 ▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to RickH, 1, #772 of 1795 🔗

Semple’s grandfather held the then-equivalent post in Liverpool for many years. Andrew Semple- very sound and sensible man. (At any rate I assume Calum is Andrew’s grandson- it seems to be quite impossible to establish this for certain by Internet research. Odd, that.)

362057 godowneasy, replying to godowneasy, 17, #773 of 1795 🔗

I find the article above about Matt Hancock very disturbing. Firstly, there’s yet another picture of Matt Hancock. Mostly importantly though, the sheer recklessness of his actions. What was he thinking? I mean, just look at the state of his shirt. Doesn’t he realise how hard it is to get out mud stains as bad as that? And I dread to think what state his son’s clothes are in. He needs to consider his position in my view.

362295 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to godowneasy, 2, #774 of 1795 🔗

Doesn’t seem to have bought any sanitiser and wipes either.

362059 J4mes, replying to J4mes, 9, #775 of 1795 🔗

The WHO admit (again): “There are still too many fundamental unknowns in terms of the effectiveness of vaccines in reducing (virus) transmission”.

I remember a similar admission when they said that they believe the vaccine is only 60% affective at immunising.

Yet the government boasts they have already jabbed millions of people with this untested chemical. I know Toby is wary of the ‘anti-vaxxers’ but this is surely enough to recoil anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together?!

362134 ▶▶ RickH, replying to J4mes, 5, #776 of 1795 🔗

It’s nothing to do with ‘anti-vaxxers’.

It’s about simple scientific logic re. adequate testing regimes – pretty basic stuff.

In addition, we have the circumstantial evidence against those promoting a rush to vaccination, with massive political and financial interests involved.

362070 Chloe_, replying to Chloe_, 16, #777 of 1795 🔗

23 people die of the vaccine in Norway: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-15/norway-warns-of-vaccination-risks-for-sick-patients-over-80

Paragraph of interest: “For those with the most severe frailty, even relatively mild vaccine side effects can have serious consequences,” the Norwegian Institute of Public Health said. “For those who have a very short remaining life span anyway, the benefit of the vaccine may be marginal or irrelevant.”

I thought we were all locking down and getting the vaccine specifically to save those vulnerable severely frail people who are the only ones at risk of dying of Covid? Or am I missing something?

362092 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Chloe_, 12, #779 of 1795 🔗

COVID 19 most at risk : the old and frail, Vaccine trials : exclude the old and frail, Vaccine priority : the old and frail, Vaccine reactions : Mostly in the old and frail, Re-prioritise : Target young and healthy to protect old and frail.

362229 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to godowneasy, 6, #780 of 1795 🔗

But – but they’ve already said it doesn’t stop you transmitting it, or catching it? SO WHAT IS THE POINT OF IT?

362171 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Chloe_, 4, #781 of 1795 🔗

The Norwegian Public Health Authority seems very solid on working to the evidence. They have also stated that the evidence on masks is weak and to get any measurable effect in the community 200,000 people would have to wear them 24/7 to prevent 1.infection a week. This was based on prevelance levels In Norway.

362241 ▶▶▶ jb12, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #782 of 1795 🔗

Do you have the source for their mask conclusion?

362202 ▶▶ iane, replying to Chloe_, 1, #783 of 1795 🔗

Yep – insanity, squared!

362247 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Chloe_, 7, #784 of 1795 🔗

Yes, you’re missing this one simple fact:

Dying of covid = tragic, awful, atrocious, taking people before their time (even if aged 90 and counting)
Dying of anything else, especially over the age of about 80 = who cares

362512 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Chloe_, 2, #785 of 1795 🔗

It has only just occurred to doctors that frail elderly die no matter what you do. If you know they have a very short lifespan left perhaps the medically appropriate thing to do is let them be in as much comfort as possible.

362079 BTLnewbie, replying to BTLnewbie, 16, #786 of 1795 🔗

Looked in vain on the Europe News on the BBC website for any mention of the IoApro mass protest in Italy https://twitter.com/search?q=%23ioapro
Not a peep! Instead, the maon Covid-related piece is on the extension of the curfew in France from 6pm to 6am, and lots of vox pops from masked Frenchies saying how happy they are to follow the Gov’t guidelines there.
We need a viable alternative to BBC – a national TalkRadio TV Channel – where people can SEE an alternative perspective on what is going on.

362124 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to BTLnewbie, 6, #787 of 1795 🔗

Saluti Io Apro.

362085 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 37, #788 of 1795 🔗

I have nothing against old people but I do think young people’s lives are worth more than even the QALY measure used by NICE.

If a 90 year old dies at 90 rather than 95 then that’s a little sad – sort of, maybe.

A child dies or a teenager kills themselves. This isn’t just 1 life, its the life of the family they may have had. It’s a whole branch of the family tree

362117 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to steve_w, 5, #789 of 1795 🔗

And ironically the vaccine (judging by the experience of Norway) apparently results in a one in one thousand risk of the old dying.

362200 ▶▶▶ iane, replying to Steve Hayes, 6, #790 of 1795 🔗

And that risk is just what has been found so far: give it 6 or 12 months and it may well go up a lot!

362150 ▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to steve_w, 16, #791 of 1795 🔗

I don’t even accept if a 90 year old dies its sad. Its part of life. Extinction is a evolutionary process.

Death is part of natural process, pathogens have a ecological function. Like most viruses, respiratory viruses function is to thin the herd removing the old to make way for the new, we have to go back to respecting & understanding nature.

Life expectations of current generations are unrealistic & unreasonable. We must learn to accept death celebrate life of the lost & practice risk again. If it takes a virus to teach humanity a little humility so be it.

362238 ▶▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to Anti_socialist, 13, #792 of 1795 🔗

It seems to me that this is the key point. I am sick of hearing that the deaths of very old people is some kind of tragedy. Its not…its normal or how else would we have the room to move around. I heard some idiot on the radio the other day saying that his 91 year old father had ‘died before his time’. He didn’t he had a bloody good innings so why not be grateful for that?

I remember in the 1990s when I used to live in Manchester I used to listen to a radio chat hosted by someone called James Stanage on Key 103. He was quite explicit about very old people needing to move on to make way for the young. In his words ‘get off the roundabout and make way for someone else’. I often think about his words in the face of all this crap.

Sorry but a child’s or a young person’s life is infinitely more important than someone’s who is approaching their century. They were lucky to have had their lives in an era when they were not made to feel guilty for doing normal things like meeting friends or playing games. I am not a hypocrite about this…I am 61 and I don’t feel my own life is anything like as important as that of children or teenagers. I am just glad I was young when people were more realistic and accepted this.

362288 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Boris Bullshit, 2, #793 of 1795 🔗

The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.

Psalms (palms if you’re Hiden/Barris) 90:10

362568 ▶▶▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to Boris Bullshit, 1, #794 of 1795 🔗

I remember James Stanage from Piccadilly Radio in the 70s!

362248 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Anti_socialist, 4, #795 of 1795 🔗

Agreed, this insanity is encouraged by the oligarchical collective of the gerontocrats. My grandchildren’s lives are far more valuable than the remnants of my life. The botoxed horror Whitmer of Michigan is a more youthful version. She has got her reward (vice chair of Democrat Party) from Hiden/Barris for destroying the economy of her state.

362266 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 5, #796 of 1795 🔗

Isn’t she, Whitmer, the one who made the services of hair stylists illegal and used the services of a hair stylist, and when exposed justified her illegal behaviour by saying that she needed the services of a hair stylist because she is in the public eye?

362281 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Steve Hayes, 4, #797 of 1795 🔗

They’re all hypocrites but I think that was Beetlejuice from Chicago. Whitmer’s husband tried to pull rank to get his boat launched early.


362620 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to steve_w, 2, #798 of 1795 🔗

This is something I argued with my mum about over the Christmas break. I pointed out that I was a little sad when my grandparents (her parents) died at the ages of 81 and 86, but that they’d lived good lives and I’d rather they’d died at that point than continue to suffer from various ailments. Obviously she has a different experience being their daughter, but I am staggered at the argument that preventing an 81 year old of dying is better than preventing a 10 year old dying due to suicide e.g.

362099 Bruce Reynolds, replying to Bruce Reynolds, 65, #799 of 1795 🔗

Dispatch from the front line.
Myself and the Bro’s 14 of us have just arrived at a local beauty spot,joint is jumping..Car park almost full, burger/breakfast van, coffee/tea van making a fortune, walkers, runners, hikers, you name it and it’s only just gone twelve..At the moment the kids are lining up to ride pillion on the Harleys, some perents even allowing them to ride helmet less(fuck there’s hope yet ). Sceptics if this is the state of play mid January I’ll leave it to your imagination what March/April will be like..ok back to the rides ..

362122 ▶▶ Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, replying to Bruce Reynolds, 14, #800 of 1795 🔗

Enjoy Bruce. Fuck the Clappers.

362103 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 4, #801 of 1795 🔗

Important thread by Mina attacking the BMJ article dismissing LFT.Mina is the one knowing about these things.No misunderstandings. Mina is in the Jon Snow camp, pro LD, pro Masks and I think in Biden’s team etc but he is right about the usefulness of LFT in community testing. But have no illusions, he is also pro mass testing forever but with LFT instead of PCR. With sensible limited LFT we would get out of this rather quick.


“Apparently I cannot say this loudly enough The recent BMJ article by Deeks
et al deriding Rapid Ag Innova Tests are simply WRONG They simply do NOT appropriately interpret Ct values & do NOT consider massive importance of how long PCR remains + post-infectiousness”

362119 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, 6, #802 of 1795 🔗

With sensible limited LFT we would get out of this rather quick.”

… which possibly supplies the answer as to why it’s LFT being attacked, rather than PCR with its fully established inaccuracies.

362131 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to swedenborg, 7, #803 of 1795 🔗

LFT are low resolution tests themselves and hence have higher uncertainty. The only answer is to stop testing of people with no symptoms. Tests have higher fidelty and can be verified to have as such with patients with symptoms. The reason why LFT are used to continue with the idea of asymptomatic transmission – itself an extrapolation from one paper, itself false.

This is the problem. Publishing a paper doesn’t make something correct. Peer review is not about being right. It’s about being sufficient to be part of the scientific discourse.

The amount of myths propagated by this Covid nonsense is off the charts.

People with no symptoms don’t spread things. We continually spread viruses and bacteria to each other anyway. Does that mean I have strep, staff and meningitis just because I have them on my hands and face?

362143 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to mhcp, 7, #804 of 1795 🔗

The amount of myths propagated by this Covid nonsense is off the charts.”

That’s undeniably the case – starting with the claim that it is a virus with unprecedented consequences. But that basic fact (that it isn’t) now hardly ever emerges – so the debate has shifted to an acceptance of armageddon.

362276 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to mhcp, 4, #805 of 1795 🔗

Completely agree with asymptomatic testing. But for symptomatic testing in the community,if they used LFT instead of PCR,much would have been won.Think about the 15000 truckers tested with LFT. It would have been hell if PCR was used.

362111 BTLnewbie, replying to BTLnewbie, 10, #806 of 1795 🔗

Where is Carl Heneghan? I wonder if this may provide an answer:
Litigation is now starting against Bayer and the Government over Primodos (‘the hidden thalidomide’) – Carl Heneghan was instrumental in uncovering the fact that MHRA’s report on the case in ?2017? (which absolved Bayer from blame) was misleading and had omitted key data
I guess he would be a key witness and required to submit detailed reports.

362114 ▶▶ RickH, replying to BTLnewbie, 5, #807 of 1795 🔗

Where is Carl Heneghan?”

A question I keep on pondering.

The CEBM site is also short on new postings.

362193 ▶▶▶ iane, replying to RickH, 2, #808 of 1795 🔗

Where is he – well, I am wondering if he has disappeared or been disappeared!

362115 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to BTLnewbie, 7, #809 of 1795 🔗

I’m hoping he comes out with a hum-dinger of an evidence based report annihilating the Gov and their advisers interpretation of cherry picked data – that’s what he usually does.

362126 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress 2021, replying to BTLnewbie, 7, #810 of 1795 🔗

Jason Farrell at Sky did an excellent and proper investigative journalist job in exposing the Primodos scandal, and it was then brought to Carl Heneghan’s attention to do the evidence-based destruction of the government/big pharma case. Why on earth has Sky, and everyone else involved in exposing the failings in the authorised report, including Theresa May and Sir Mike Penning, not be more instrumental in getting Heneghan on board for covid?

362243 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to BTLnewbie, 4, #812 of 1795 🔗

I’ve been wondering (hoping) if he is involved with this mysterious HART thing, which seems to be taking its time to get going. Latest is that the website will go live on 25th Jan, and the names of all involved will be made public.

362121 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 13, #813 of 1795 🔗

could the mass vaccination of elderly frail people be causing an uptick in the daily death figures? and above average all cause deaths when the figures come out for Jan?

362138 ▶▶ Anti_socialist, replying to Major Panic, 4, #814 of 1795 🔗

Good observation.

362140 ▶▶ JHUNTZ, replying to Major Panic, 4, #815 of 1795 🔗

It could also be causing the NHS sickness of staff.

362156 ▶▶▶ penelope pitstop, replying to JHUNTZ, 6, #816 of 1795 🔗

yes someone i know who is a nurse had the phizer vaxx and had a day or so of symptoms and i assume was off work because of this. As they are rolling out the vaxx in hospitals quite quickly this will be a common issue i suspect for the next week. It may be why the lockdown is in place as the poliburo know that more nhs staff will be off work.

362141 ▶▶ rockoman, replying to Major Panic, 6, #817 of 1795 🔗

We need a category of ‘dead’:

‘Those previously vaccinated’.

Itself divided into two sub-categories:

Those with positive PCR in the previous 28 days and those without.

362155 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to rockoman, 4, #818 of 1795 🔗

The positive with PCR in the previous 28 days should only be for those who die of respiratory complications and as the primary factor.

362209 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Major Panic, 7, #819 of 1795 🔗

Q8 on yesterday’s exam paper:
Q8        If a vaccinated person dies within 28 days of taking the 2nd dose of the vaccine, will the death certificate record that they died:
a) from the vaccine
b) with the vaccine
c) despite the vaccine
d)          there would be no record

362683 ▶▶ rose, replying to Major Panic, 2, #820 of 1795 🔗

I sent that hypothesis to my MP yesterday and suggested that the government order extra data to be collected around Covid hospital admissions, positive tests, vaccinations, ‘Covid deaths’ etc. so that researchers can actually apply some real science to the situation. I’m sure this won’t happen!

362125 Basics, replying to Basics, 6, #821 of 1795 🔗

Just having a sarch around for the vanished Flu. Put my hand down the back of the sofa and fished out 50p. Nice one.

362127 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Basics, 5, #822 of 1795 🔗

you might find it miss filed under covid

362142 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #824 of 1795 🔗

It might come as a shock but the majority of people in hospital with PCR test pos might not be infectious. These test should be used as quick as possible to get rid of the infectious stamp on patients to free up beds.


 Duration and key determinants of infectious virus shedding in hospitalized patients with coronavirus disease-2019 (COVID-19)
“We conclude that quantitative viral RNA load assays and serological assays could be used in test-based strategies to discontinue or de-escalate infection prevention and control precautions.
In addition, Bullard and colleagues used cycle threshold (ct) values as quantitative measure for viral RNA load and reported that infectious virus could not be isolated from diagnostic samples when ct values were above 24

362146 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, 2, #825 of 1795 🔗

Well – that paper is going to be ignored, isn’t it?

362164 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to swedenborg, 4, #826 of 1795 🔗

Wow. 24Ct.

And they only seem to mention shedding with regards to symptomatic patients. I think that is also important

362228 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 3, #827 of 1795 🔗

Yup, and we’re doing 45 apparently (still waiting from an answer from Whately).

362206 ▶▶ leggy, replying to swedenborg, 1, #828 of 1795 🔗

Really interesting study, thanks. Great to see that they are using viral cultures in combination with blanket RT-PCR.

362144 Melangell, replying to Melangell, 5, #829 of 1795 🔗

Just bumped into the retired doctor and his wife on a walk. They both had covid last March after a skiing holiday in France. Although completely recovered, they told me they were both going to get the vaccine. I want to email them with a link to:

1) something I read here the other day about a study showing it is doubtful that you can get it twice

2) Vaccination side-effects and deaths (esp. in the US) from a reputable source (the only ones I can find by searching are from media with names like “Apache Post” and “Catholic Citizens from Illinois” – which will not cut the mustard for the medical man.) I’ve already got a link about the Norway deaths. Has Mike Yeadon put anything out about this subject?

I smell an opportunity for some re-education here so would love some help!

362159 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Melangell, 3, #830 of 1795 🔗

It was all over the news this week

362182 ▶▶▶ Melangell, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #831 of 1795 🔗

This comes from a Public Health England study saying it can confer immunity for 5 months. The doctor knows this but since they had the lurgy over 5 months ago they feel the need for the jab.

362186 ▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Melangell, 4, #832 of 1795 🔗

I’d say there could be some immunity for at least 17 years, with the disclaimer that immunity is a complex variable https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32668444/

362222 ▶▶▶▶ Dodderydude, replying to Melangell, 4, #833 of 1795 🔗

All the references to this (five months’ immunity) that I have seen have [cleverly] said “ at least five months immunity”. People focus on the ‘five months’ but it could just as easily be ‘lifetime’ and the statement wouldn’t be incorrect.

362162 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Melangell, 11, #834 of 1795 🔗

If getting the disease and recovering does not confer immunity, it is impossible that a vaccine could be effective. I is shocking to think that a doctor would not know this.

362166 ▶▶▶ Melangell, replying to Steve Hayes, 4, #835 of 1795 🔗

Thanks – not sure how I could convey this politely!

362239 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Melangell, 4, #836 of 1795 🔗

Yes. Exposing ignorance is impolite, which rather helps to defend the nonsense from the criticism.

362184 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Melangell, 4, #837 of 1795 🔗

Unfortunately, you’re probably wasting your time.

362284 ▶▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to leggy, 9, #838 of 1795 🔗

If he’s a doctor, you most certainly would be wasting your time. Doctors know everything about everything. If you doubt this, just ask one.

362305 ▶▶▶▶ Dodderydude, replying to Dermot McClatchey, 7, #839 of 1795 🔗

Watched the Saturday night quiz show ‘Spin the Wheel’ last night. It involves members of the public collaborating with eight celebrities to answer general knowledge questions. One of the so-called celebs was a medical doctor (‘Will’ something, didn’t recognise him) who features on TV shows. A tally is kept of the correct multiple choice answers given by each celebrity. As you might imagine, none of the celebs came across as outstanding but Dr Will was bottom of the final listing. He was thick as pig shit. When he was the target of Michael McIntyre’s facetious humour, even he had to say that he only knew about medical things, but to be honest I would doubt even that.

362235 ▶▶ Dodderydude, replying to Melangell, 1, #840 of 1795 🔗

This is a very useful website for daily updates of global adverse reactions or, shall we say, ‘post-vaccination events’. It also includes links to official statistical websites.


362293 ▶▶▶ Melangell, replying to Dodderydude, #841 of 1795 🔗

Thanks for this link, DD!

362285 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Melangell, 1, #842 of 1795 🔗

Perhaps you should show them this

 It seems that if you had C-19 and got the vaccine the side effects are worse more like the ones you get with the second shot. Logical? Yes, especially the concerns with ADE. They are seriously considering ab tests before vaccine.

362292 ▶▶▶ Melangell, replying to swedenborg, #843 of 1795 🔗

Thank you so much for this information and link, Swedenborg. I shall certainly pass it on.

362147 Basileus, replying to Basileus, 13, #844 of 1795 🔗
362188 ▶▶ Annie, replying to Basileus, 5, #845 of 1795 🔗

One can dream…

362148 Stephen Priest, 5, #846 of 1795 🔗

Sunday – No Restrictions in Sweden in 2020 – What Was the Result?


If restrictions has nothing to do with saving lives, what is it about?
Sanity 4 Sweden

362152 Tee Ell, replying to Tee Ell, 8, #847 of 1795 🔗

I’m going to switch up my terminology next time I’m debating with someone.

If I tell people what I’m against (lockdowns) and what I’m for (liberty), they might put me in the conspiracy theorist bracket. Language patterns are becoming too engrained in the media, so people are jumping to assumptions pretty quickly… I reckon I’ll have more luck describing myself as “from the Oxford University school” and asking whether they subscribe to “the Imperial College” school of thought.

362165 ▶▶ rockoman, replying to Tee Ell, 1, #848 of 1795 🔗

You simply frame your argument as being ‘for life’. You don’t have to mention liberty.

The evidence is there – lockdowns – on a net basis – cost lives.

One more thing:

The evidence is that where one subset of the population – ie as here with the elderly and immunocompromised – is particularly vulnerable, that more people die ultimately through slowing the spread of the virus.

That is, even if masks, SD and lockdowns work to slow the spead of illness, and thus reduce peak hospital stress, that they eventually cost more lives, because they allow a virus to more efficiently find the most susceptible victims.

Summing up, you don’t have to mention liberty. You win the argument on the zealots’ ‘home ground’ of lives lost.

362168 ▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to rockoman, 2, #849 of 1795 🔗

The evidence is there – lockdowns – on a net basis – cost lives.

I agree of course. But sometimes others need an appeal to authority fallacy thrown in for good measure. I’ll give it a go and report back ha.

362181 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to rockoman, 3, #850 of 1795 🔗

I’ve seen the pro-lockdown (or rather, the anti-lockdown sceptic) argument shift, in that it’s now “it’s not about saving lives, it’s about reducing the pressure on the health system, so the evidence that says that lockdown hasn’t saved lives is irrelevant”. I’ll acknowledge that this is what we’ve been told the point is when lockdown has been imposed, but I find the logic baffling. Apart from anything else, surely the number of deaths is an indicator of number of hospitalisations and so, surely, if lockdown doesn’t reduce mortality, it must also not reduce hospitalisations?

362157 Basileus, 4, #851 of 1795 🔗

Tom Woods Show

Ep. 1813 Attorney Successfully Challenges COVID Restrictions

‘What you hear in this episode is the first conversation Chris Ferrera and I have had in over a dozen years. And I happen to think it’s really darn good.

Chris has racked up several victories in the courts (in New York, New Jersey, and California) from a religious liberty angle, successfully challenging the arbitrary restrictions on houses of worship.

But as you’ll hear in the discussion, Chris’s opposition to the COVID regime goes well beyond that. He smashes it all to smithereens, and he’s entertaining while he’s doing it.’ – Tom Woods

362158 crimsonpirate, replying to crimsonpirate, 20, #852 of 1795 🔗

Just listening to Tom Swarbrick on LBC. Some woman rang complaining the Govt is doing nothing to counter dis-information. He replied that the Govt are doing things such as the 5pm briefings. That got short shrift.
So he mentioned the 77th Brigade. That set her off. She said I have never heard of it until you mentioned it and I doubt anyone else has. He recommended she google it. He signed off the show by suggesting again to google the 77th. Also added that people can volunteer!

362173 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to crimsonpirate, 9, #853 of 1795 🔗

Wow. “Don’t worry love, we have a stasi, get involved!”

362178 ▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to crimsonpirate, 7, #854 of 1795 🔗

Methinks she doth protest too much 😉 A bona fide caller, or something else, perhaps….

362192 ▶▶ CGL, replying to crimsonpirate, 7, #855 of 1795 🔗

Disinformation being? Anything she disagrees with?

362207 ▶▶ Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, replying to crimsonpirate, 7, #856 of 1795 🔗

At least the Stasi got some free recruitment advertising.

“Bored? Vindictive? Karen? Apply today. 77th – SeE SoMetHiNg SAy sOmEThInG

362262 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to crimsonpirate, 2, #857 of 1795 🔗
362169 Basics, 4, #858 of 1795 🔗


Interesting to see the EU timeline for introducing a common vaccine passport 2018 onwards in the EUs own document.

362185 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 3, #859 of 1795 🔗

Spain excess mortality per region first versus second. You see clearly saved parts in the first round in North/South/SouthWest got hit the second time. Can’t we have something similar in UK?

362189 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to swedenborg, 4, #860 of 1795 🔗

Same trend across Europe

362208 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 10, #861 of 1795 🔗

The problem I’ve got with all this is whether Covid is accurately designated – especially in the autumn infection season.

I have a feeling that the mis/fake diagnosis was actually higher second time round.

362191 LMS2, replying to LMS2, 11, #862 of 1795 🔗

“Did the Virus Escape From the Wuhan Institute of Virology?”

Well, yeah. Where have you been all this time?
Right from the outset, this seemed the more likely explanation, and if it was done deliberately, that wouldn’t surprise me either. The CCP certainly did nothing to stop it escaping from China, and has engaged in active propaganda on the West since the beginning of 2020.

362196 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to LMS2, 8, #863 of 1795 🔗

The questions to ask are how did it get there? From Fort Detrick? Porton Down? Their own research?

362216 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #864 of 1795 🔗

Their own research funded by Fauci and CCP military.

362217 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #865 of 1795 🔗

Also interesting and completely coincidental of course is who issued the contract to Wuhan for research which was illegal in the US.
One A Fauci.

362259 ▶▶▶ Annie, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #866 of 1795 🔗

Came down from Mars on a meteorite.
Another dastardly plot by the Mekon.

362310 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Annie, 2, #867 of 1795 🔗

Dan and Digby to the rescue.

362268 ▶▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #868 of 1795 🔗

How dare you say that? Everybody knows Porton Down is a community pharmacy!
I know about the Fort Detrick angle; even if that hadn’t happened I’d still suspect the U.S. Deep State of being complicit in this shitshow in some way. Still: mixing a bit of Sinophobia in with the endemic Russophobia, as has happened in the past couple of days, usually finds a receptive audience, eh?

362322 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Dermot McClatchey, 6, #869 of 1795 🔗

Research the Harvard professor arrested in Dec 2020 for lying about his links to the Wuhan, how much he was paid (it’s on the US Justice Dept website) , the military Chinese scientists arrested in Canada with coronavirus in phials trying to board a flight etc etc.

How did both Fort Detrick and Porton Down have refurbishments, both have “waste disposal system” problems after refurbishment, both get shutdown about the same time, Fort Detrick get cease and desist orders against it for “security problems” from the Pentagon, how the 1st Japanese person diagnosed with covid-19 caught it in Hawaii at the same time the troops were on their way to the Wuhan games via Seattle and Hawaii, how the US Army did not send it’s athletes to the Wuhan Games but normal troops, how it was originally called “the telephone disease” in China and as yous aid this alls atrted when Trump banned research that was on-going into these types of viruses in teh US and Fauci “exported” the research.

Lots of coincidences weren’t there?

362563 ▶▶▶▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #870 of 1795 🔗

I know about the Harvard professor, can’t recall his name offhand though. Anyway yes, many coincidences. Life would appear to be replete with them.

362197 ▶▶ leggy, replying to LMS2, 8, #871 of 1795 🔗

It’s already been proved that the wet market thing was fantasy, firstly the virus was around long before that story was supposed to start, secondly, the initial patients seen hadn’t even been there!

362205 ▶▶ RickH, replying to LMS2, 4, #872 of 1795 🔗

The ‘Escape’ scenario is a possibility.

What is much more a possibility is that early ‘intelligence’ fed to governments followed this narrative. This would give a basis to the universal panic.

362278 ▶▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to RickH, 4, #873 of 1795 🔗

You remember those vids of people in Wuhan lying dead in the streets, of course. I sometimes think the PRC has played a blinder.

362225 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to LMS2, 9, #874 of 1795 🔗

I think the “it escaped form a lab” thing or the “it’s a bio weaopn” thing are just part of the psy-op, to elevate Coroni into the stars and give it almost mythical special powers.

It’s all bollocks. It evolved quite naturally or perhaps with the help of people shedding strange “novel” or “modified” viruses via flu jabs we have had a mutation.

If there is any kind of strange genetic mutation.There does seem to be something that seems to puzzle people who know about this sort of thing. However I am not so sure. I don’t think the evidence that I have seen is very conclusive.

Something about an AIDS viral sequences or something strange about how RNA building blocks are unusually sequenced..I don’t know really its hard to understand.I am not so sure that there is something strange in it gnome.

Anyway the viral gnome hasn’t been properly sequenced in its entirety has it? The virus hasn’t been isolated either has it?

362260 ▶▶▶ Annie, replying to Two-Six, 3, #875 of 1795 🔗

‘Viral gnome’ … love it! Is its name Ferguson?

362977 ▶▶▶▶ zubin, replying to Annie, 1, #876 of 1795 🔗

Brilliant, best laugh all day.thankyou

362323 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Two-Six, 2, #877 of 1795 🔗

But if this ‘intelligence’ was being fed to governments in the early part of last year, it would explain a lot.

362245 ▶▶ redbirdpete, replying to LMS2, 2, #878 of 1795 🔗

I’m actually unsure about this, and concerned it might be a psyop way of trying to convince us this is unprecedented when it is actually a cold virus. (about 25% of common cold viruses are Covids, the rest are rhinoviruses)

362429 ▶▶▶ LMS2, replying to redbirdpete, 2, #879 of 1795 🔗

It’s more than a cold virus, although is. in the same family of viruses.
The WIV was working on gain-of-function in viruses.
They probably didn’t release it deliberately from the lab, but they did try to cover it up, then released all that footage of people dropping dead in the streets (no instances of that elsewhere), people being barricaded in their houses, etc. They lied to the world via the WHO, and promoted the lockdown measures as the way to defeat the virus, claiming that it had stopped the virus.
They apparently stopped travel from Wuhan to the rest of China, but didn’t stop any flights from leaving China.

How much direct collusion between the CCP, WHO, and other sympathetic governments, I don’t know, but I’m sure that will eventually come out.

362408 ▶▶ Old Bill, replying to LMS2, 3, #880 of 1795 🔗

It is all easily explained. There is a shortage of test tubes at Wuhan, so they use milk bottles instead. The lab assisstant just forgot to sterilise them before he put them out for collection that night.

362201 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 6, #881 of 1795 🔗

Another gigantic study showing how rare reinfections
 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.01.15.21249731v1 SARS-CoV-2 reinfection in a cohort of 43,000 antibody-positive individuals followed for up to 35 weeks
Efficacy of natural infection against reinfection was estimated at >90%. Reinfections were less severe than primary infections. Only one reinfection was severe, two were moderate, and none were critical or fatal. Most reinfections (66.7%) were diagnosed incidentally through random or routine testing, or through contact tracing. Conclusions: Reinfection is rare. Natural infection appears to elicit strong protection against reinfection with an efficacy >90% for at least seven months.

362698 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to swedenborg, #882 of 1795 🔗

What is needed is a study of people who have been reinfected but with T cell immunity only rather than antibodies (B cell immunity).

362204 SilentP, replying to SilentP, 4, #883 of 1795 🔗

Didn’t expect to find heresy like this on the BBC
BBC News – Did we see a Christmas coronavirus spike?

362214 ▶▶ RickH, replying to SilentP, 4, #884 of 1795 🔗

Of course, the usual problem pertains : the only reasonably secure data is ONS all-cause mortality – and we have to wait for this, whilst a casedemic is manufactured immediately, and all sorts of hysterical claims are promulgated.

362220 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to SilentP, 4, #885 of 1795 🔗

But but but, Christmas mixing was going to cause all the grannies in the world to be dead by February, especially if they didn’t sit by an open window, it was going to cause CARNAGE!!

Of course, even one day off was denied to an awful lot of people in the most densely populated part of the country, surprised they’re not making more of this to explain the lack of obvious effect.

362215 Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #886 of 1795 🔗


Plead that you don’t watch the news and tgerefore know nothing about the rules/laws/whatever – it works in Hampshire.

362223 ▶▶ Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, replying to Basics, 12, #887 of 1795 🔗

I was wondering about this. I don’t watch TV, so I don’t always know what the new rules for that day are, and there are no laws that compel you to watch the electronic bullshitter to find out.

362258 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, 9, #888 of 1795 🔗

I have mooted on these pages similar thoughts. Such confusion – laws/rules/guidance/whatever – is not a reasonable way to govern, it is abuse. Since policing consent and in theory law relies of the concept of the reasonable man it appears a good point.

It is not our cintracted duty to keep abreast of such whims.

Boils down to the principle of fuck ’em. Which is reasonable in my opinion.

Another related point is that it is healthier to switch off and not listen to propaganda. You are saving the NHS by being healthy.

And of course it is the reasinable mans duty to be reasinable and not give oxygen to vile propaganda.

362273 ▶▶▶▶ Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, replying to Basics, 2, #889 of 1795 🔗

not give oxygen to vile propaganda.” My feelings exactly.

362272 ▶▶▶ Annie, replying to Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, 7, #890 of 1795 🔗

In Wales we had one you-must-stop-living circular letter a few weeks into the bollox. Nothing since apart from the ubiquitous signs indicating that I save seven billion lives per day by not going within six feet of their owners.
I am officially ill-informed, verily.

362410 ▶▶ Andrea Salford, replying to Basics, 4, #891 of 1795 🔗

Given these laws are crimes against humanity I refuse to obey them as to do so would make me a criminal.

And I don’t watch or listen to the news anyway for the sake of my sanity.

362224 bebophaircut, replying to bebophaircut, 5, #892 of 1795 🔗

Watched ‘Seven Days in May’ last night. Very good portrayal of how to create a coup. Fifty-seven years later in the U.S.A. the techniques being used are eerily similar, just a lot more complex, sophisticated and terrifying.

362336 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to bebophaircut, 4, #893 of 1795 🔗

In their quest to re-enact Robert & Grace Mugabe, China Joe & Kamalatoe have the template below to follow:
1992 3rd richest country in the hemisphere
2001 Voted for Socialist President
2004 Private healthcare completely socialised
2007 All Higher Education becomes free
2009 Private ownership of guns banned
2012 Bernie Sanders praises their leadership
2014 Opposition Leaders imprisoned
2016 Food and healthcare shortages widespread
2017 Constitution and elections suspended
2019 People starving on the streets
2020 Massive exodus of Venezuelans fleeing repression and shortages is the largest migration crisis in recent Latin American history.

362411 ▶▶ LMS2, replying to bebophaircut, 2, #894 of 1795 🔗

I see what’s happening in the U.S. as a modern-day version of the Bolsheviks revolution in Russia, with the Trump supporters becoming the new kulaks…

The Democrats are already compiling lists, and making people “disappear” electronically. How soon before it happens for real…?

362434 ▶▶ awildgoose, replying to bebophaircut, 2, #895 of 1795 🔗

Both versions of, ‘The Manchurian Candidate,’ are also worth a watch.

362227 Stephen Priest, replying to Stephen Priest, 16, #896 of 1795 🔗

100’s Of Polish Business’s To DEFY Lockdown / Hugo Talks #lockdown

17 Jan 2021

362242 ▶▶ JHUNTZ, replying to Stephen Priest, 8, #897 of 1795 🔗

Doing it because they won’t last another month. What a joke of an idea lockdown is.

362282 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Stephen Priest, 4, #898 of 1795 🔗

Seen this doing the rounds

362308 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 3, #899 of 1795 🔗

Encouraging but probably Democrat psyop, the ‘rona has served its purpose and lockdowns will be lifted pretty soon so that Hiden/Barris can claim credit for US economy restarting.

362359 ▶▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 3, #900 of 1795 🔗

That’s about it. It’s all been so convenient for the leftie loonies, hasn’t it?

362442 ▶▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 2, #901 of 1795 🔗

Good old Democrats, funnily enough, confirmed this a while ago:

362232 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 32, #902 of 1795 🔗

Is there any situation in which Hancock doesn’t look smug?

Look at him in his casual weekend shirt (who wears a shirt to play football with the kids at the weekend?!), buggering about in the park (not exercising in that photo, is he? Needs to be arrested pronto) after telling everyone that people will DIE if they leave their houses and threatening to only allow us out once a week.

He deserves something truly terrible to happen to him. I don’t have it in me to wish him physical harm, he does have innocent kids after all, but he needs to fall from grace as soon as possible, preferably yesterday.

362249 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to A. Contrarian, 18, #903 of 1795 🔗

Hancock told us all that we have to behave as though we have the disease and are infectious, which means we have to self-isolate indefinitely. Yet, he obviously thinks that this does not apply to him. I wonder how he reconciles that contradiction.

362291 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Steve Hayes, 4, #904 of 1795 🔗

He’s had it, innit. He’s one of the Great Immune.

362307 ▶▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #905 of 1795 🔗

Yeah, he’s had it. But he also maintains that we can get it again. And if we can, then he can too. Was he vaccinated yet?
Maybe it was a photo op to show the public how great life could become once more if you get the jab?

362354 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #906 of 1795 🔗

They all know full well that this is a mild virus, of little danger to anyone who is out and about, ie healthy. Right from the word go, with Funguson’s (thanks for the name) little sortie, and that Scottish bint running the length of the country – it’s been quite obvious they KNOW that it’s next to nothing in the great scheme of things.

We all know it’s not about a virus, but it’s about control and fear-mongering. They preach to us and mock us in the same breath.

362274 ▶▶ Annie, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #907 of 1795 🔗

There’s such a thing as original sin, passed on by the parents, with which all kids are tainted. Can be purged by holy baptism, but the Church has withdrawn that service along with everything else.

362280 ▶▶ Basics, replying to A. Contrarian, 6, #908 of 1795 🔗

I’m out of touch with metropolitan standards. This muddy shirt business… how common is that down the park? Not training gear.

The episode is psy-op like imo. Same as boris on his bike and the ww2 buck palace ‘luftwaffer bomb’. Designed to show they are one of the people.

No other sitings are published until now. He might be regularly in the park in a shirt doing belly sides in mud. But they run this story now.

As with every word of news it pays to ask
Why do they want readers to know this?
Who wants readers to know this?

It also pays to ignore every little psy-op story and starve them of their required audience. By participating in reading their sworded stories we perpetuate their existence.

362297 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Basics, 1, #909 of 1795 🔗

He could literally be photographed at a rave and people would still believe the narrative.

362333 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to A. Contrarian, 6, #910 of 1795 🔗

If I had 5 minutes alone with him he wouldn’t look smug.

In the words of the country and western singer in the Blues Brothers – it’s hard to eat corn with no fucking teeth.

362250 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 5, #911 of 1795 🔗

I complained about this story in the Leicester Mercury
This was the email I sent:
find this story inappropriate using the grief of a little girl as a cynical means of pushing an agenda and maintaining the fear by the Leicester Mercury.”
This was the reply:

“The story was done with the full co-operation of the family involved, who wanted to make it clear to people how much of an impact coronavirus is having, not just on them, but on families across Leicestershire.
While you’re obviously entitled to your opinion, I’m afraid we could not disagree more.
Coronavirus is very real and our hospitals are currently in danger of being overwhelmed. There simply would be no benefit to us of cynically pushing a false agenda to maintain fear among people.”

362255 ▶▶ Annie, replying to p02099003, 5, #912 of 1795 🔗

Cynical?Maybe not. Following the agenda? Well now.

362263 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Annie, 35, #913 of 1795 🔗

This was my reply to their reply.
You have mischaracterised what I actually said.
I never said that SARS-CoV-2 is not real, yes it’s real, people have died including this gentleman.
However, to use a little girl’s unresolved grief as you have done is unfair to the child. Having lost my grandfather aged 66 to a respiratory condition when I was 11 I have some inkling of what she’s feeling.
Her emotions are all over the place, she’s trying to make sense of what has happened and having this put on a public forum cannot be helpful for her.
In some respects whether the family cooperated or not is beside the point.
You have reported on deaths with SARS-CoV-2 infection (not necessarily from the disease CoViD19), but you have consistently overlooked the collateral deaths due to lockdown. That is why you are seen as pushing an agenda.
The hospitals are not in worse condition than in previous years, for example 2017/2018 influenza, the NHS regularly works at 90%+ capacity during the winter with non urgent procedures cancelled. The LRI has always seen queues of ambulances with patients waiting for several hours on the ambulance before being seen in the A&E. The current bed capacity has been reduced by 25-30% because of distancing, there are significant staff away due to having to self isolate and a significant number of patients are becoming infected with SARS-CoV-2 in hospital.
You keep reporting on the number of cases, when in fact they are positive results from a test that has been criticised by Dr. Fauci, the World Health Organisation and public health England for using too many amplification steps. Kary Mullis, the inventor, said that the test was not intended as a diagnostic test.
You need to ask the questions as to why healthy people are getting tested unnecessarily. Why are the council going door to door testing healthy people?
A significant proportion of people infected with influenza do not have symptoms, but we don’t test for that. CoViD19 is no more dangerous than influenza with an infection fatality rate of around 0.2%. Influenza kills all ages, CoViD19 mainly affects the elderly and those with existing conditions. Less than 400 people under the age of 60 with no underlying conditions have died since March. TB kills 1.5 million a year worldwide. Coronary heart disease is still the biggest killer and due to the fear of SARS-CoV-2 those who have heart attacks are not going to hospital.
Suicides have increased, including 11 and 12 year old children.
These are the things you should be reporting on, these are having a devastating effect.”

362270 ▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to p02099003, 6, #914 of 1795 🔗

Great response,what’s the likelihood they will just ignore you this time ?.

362363 ▶▶▶▶ BJJ, replying to p02099003, 2, #915 of 1795 🔗

But HMG will then stop advertising and we will go bust. Not complicated.

362256 Cecil B, 5, #916 of 1795 🔗

I do not object to Mandy going to the park

But using children as a human shield?, even Saddam didn’t do that, Ooops!! yes he did

362261 Smelly Melly, replying to Smelly Melly, 10, #917 of 1795 🔗

I understand that there is a large group of migrants heading to the US border. How is this going to stop C19 if they are let in?

Also its rumoured that Biden is going to legalise the 11 million illegals in the States. Thats the end of the Republican Party.

362267 ▶▶ Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, replying to Smelly Melly, 3, #918 of 1795 🔗

Meh, the US is fucked anyway. http://usdebtclock.org

362269 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, 2, #919 of 1795 🔗

needs a great reset

362275 ▶▶▶▶ Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, replying to Major Panic, 4, #920 of 1795 🔗

Tree of Liberty needs a damn good watering.

362302 ▶▶ Liz F, replying to Smelly Melly, 4, #921 of 1795 🔗

Well that’s really going to unite the country isn’t it?

362396 ▶▶ LMS2, replying to Smelly Melly, 3, #922 of 1795 🔗

Biden isn’t going to legalise 11 million illegals in the US.

It’s likely to be between 20-30 million.
His figure is a couple of decades out of date.

Along with other measures the Democrats have planned, the U.S. will be a one-party state resembling the CCP for the foreseeable future.

Unless something happens before Wednesday….

362785 ▶▶▶ Richy_m_99, replying to LMS2, #923 of 1795 🔗

Actually that may well be the end of the union. These people have to go somewhere, and many states will refuse to house and support them, Texas especially.

362808 ▶▶▶▶ Richy_m_99, replying to Richy_m_99, #924 of 1795 🔗

On a similar topic, not too unrelated: This caught my eye in another article from a couple of days ago.

More than 20,000 National Guard troops will be deployed in Washington DC on Wednesday for the inauguration of Joe Biden as 46th President of the United States — 50 times more than the number envisaged only two weeks ago.
In addition, regular army troops will be on standby at nearby Fort Myer in northern Virginia . The Marine Corps will be on alert at their base in south-east DC.

Maybe our friends in the US will correct me, but I thought the deployment of regular troops on US soil to deal with domestic issues was illegal under the Posse Comitatus Act.

362265 Bungle, replying to Bungle, 23, #925 of 1795 🔗

Months ago, when I asked someone close to me to look at collateral damage and loss of liberty, he accused me of being a ‘conspiracy theorist’. I didn’t know what one was so just continued looking at data and asking questions. Today I’ve gone to the Lancet article which changed the UK on face masks (Vol 395, 27 June) and guess what I’ve found: the authors at McMaster University are part of SURGE Systematic Urgent Review Group Effort) and led by Derek Chu. They were sponsored by the World Health Organization who defined the scope of the study and then commented on the review before publication. The WHO is sponsored by the Chinese government, Bill Gates and others and this study, of ‘low certainty’ (authors words) got Britons acting like sheep. Guess what? I now know what a conspiracy theorist is and I’m looking at one, there,in the mirror, right in front of me!!!

362279 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Bungle, 15, #926 of 1795 🔗

The WHOs own Dec 2020 updated position on masks in the community still says there is only weak evidence. They just can’t find anything beyond the argument that “it might work”

In that basis alone mandates should be deemed illegal.

362300 ▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 3, #927 of 1795 🔗

Global Public Health Security. If you sneeze too often you could go to prison. Or worse. The hypochondriac’s security blanket.

362301 ▶▶▶ Freddy Boy, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 6, #928 of 1795 🔗

The moment of mandate was when I lost any faith in anything from any government/ corporate source ( not that I had much anyway ) but I did vote Tory ! Never again !! If we ever get to vote again ! The Chunts are already looking to move May local elections due to the fact they would get the opposite reaction to the Brexit result that put them over us !!

362296 ▶▶ Freddy Boy, replying to Bungle, 3, #929 of 1795 🔗

Complete & utter bastards !!

362328 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Bungle, 3, #930 of 1795 🔗


362400 ▶▶ LMS2, replying to Bungle, 3, #931 of 1795 🔗

You’re not a conspiracy theorist when you have all the evidence to back up what you say.

Conspiracy theorist = shut up. We don’t want to listen to you.

362294 bebophaircut, replying to bebophaircut, 10, #932 of 1795 🔗

How much more time will pass until we fully reject this pantodemic?

362303 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to bebophaircut, 6, #933 of 1795 🔗

Counting down from 20th January after Hiden/Barris take over.

362309 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 5, #934 of 1795 🔗

I think I’ll conacy Paddy Power and put March 04th as Trump’s inaugarantion.

362341 ▶▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #935 of 1795 🔗

If only….

362324 ▶▶ Basics, replying to bebophaircut, 5, #936 of 1795 🔗

In regard to the social media censorship aspect the crack down maybbe reaching it’s viable peak. Alex Tompson in conversation with Richard Lucas a few days ago reckoned the increase social media censorship holds a threshold they cannot risk crossing.

Currently about one third of people see though the whole situation, in Alex’s judgement, if 50% of people wake up to the idea that something is deeply wrong in society, the tipping point is reached Alex thinks 50% is the rubicon.

The censorship is now pushing people into realisation of what is happening – their entire digital social reality is shifting about them. Social media companies cannot over egg their censoring for they will collapse themselves and the wider false narratives spun around us.

See the Scottish Family Party on youtube for the discussion.

362348 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Basics, 3, #937 of 1795 🔗

I don’t want to cut off my nose to spite my face, so I still use Facebook to keep in touch with friends and “friends” on topics of common interest. But I’m now only going on to it once every few days, compared to two or three times a day before they went big on censorship. Banning the Save Our Rights UK group was the trigger for me. If a lot of people are doing likewise, it’ll show up in their algorithms and they’ll start worrying about advertising revenue. When I do go on, I seem to be seeing fewer adverts, possibly because it prioritises posts from friends and/or my lack of activity means that the algorithms don’t have much to go on in terms of what might interest me.

362298 Cecil B, 9, #938 of 1795 🔗

May 2020

Bunker under Downing Street

“Well we know now it’s deliberate”

“What they released a virus deliberately?”



“Well when the Russians did their polonium and NoVo chock stunts they worked out that you would fuck all about it if they did”

“Well they are avin large this time. How long will it take to get our nuclear submarines out there?

“I’ll check”

“What are we going to tell the people in the meantime?”

“Oh you can tell them anything. Just choose random words from the dictionary”

“What? like bubble, distancing, mask, social”

“Yep good, all stuff like that, that they will believe anything as long as it’s on GMTV. Open the pubs, close the pubs, open the pubs that should keep them confused”

“Got a date for the submarines, they will be on station and ready to fire at 17.00 hrs. GMT on 17th January”

“Great lets do it”

Enjoy the rest of your Sunday afternoon

362299 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 28, #939 of 1795 🔗

Time to become a banana republic?
https://mobile.twitter.com/MichaelYeadon3/status/1350751768108556294 “Recently, the high court in Equador ruled that while use of unevidenced measures was acceptable early in the pandemic, after 9mo, it was no longer acceptable to do so without.. laying evidence before their law-making body. Continuing to deprive citizens of their liberty & placing onerous obligations on them by writ, unsupported by scientific evidence, was unconstitutional & illegal. To think we used to call countries like Equador ‘banana republics’”.

362318 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, 12, #940 of 1795 🔗

Yes – although the UK has always lived under delusions about its ‘democracy’, this is an almost hilarious illustration of backward progress in the constitutional stakes.

362319 ▶▶ TC, replying to swedenborg, 12, #941 of 1795 🔗

My word,a reasoned judgment from a country our elite would look down their noses at after checking an atlas to find out its location.

362340 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to TC, 2, #942 of 1795 🔗


362306 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #943 of 1795 🔗

Off topic but a document about Biden and Ukraine:


362335 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #944 of 1795 🔗

A shameless bunch, aren’t they? I find it hard to imagine why ANYONE voted for them when this information was already out there, or hinted at, before the election.
Ah well – they’ll reap what they sow, I suppose. The trouble is, the rest of the world will have to reap it too.

362350 ▶▶▶ BJJ, replying to Banjones, 5, #945 of 1795 🔗

This is a plan to get Kamala in office.

362432 ▶▶▶▶ awildgoose, replying to BJJ, 3, #946 of 1795 🔗


Just watch how quickly the US Congress “discovers” Hunter’s laptop or starts popping off about the 25th Amendment.

362437 ▶▶▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to awildgoose, 3, #947 of 1795 🔗

The fact that even the left wing NYTimes has been sowing seeds of doubt about Biden – mentioning Hunter Biden is under criminal investigation – is not a coincidence, imo. Gently gently….

362587 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ awildgoose, replying to Stringfellow Hawke, #948 of 1795 🔗

Well, the showrunners certainly know when they need to start building the next angle they’re going to sell to the marks.

362355 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Banjones, 2, #949 of 1795 🔗

One thing we do know is that much of the information was actively suppressed by the parts of the mainstream media and the big tech controlled social media that reach undecideds or Democrat supporters.

So hardly surprising it had limited impact. But that’s “democracy” for you.

362457 ▶▶▶ JaneHarry, replying to Banjones, 2, #950 of 1795 🔗

last I heard, I don’t think anyone DID vote for them, did they?

362591 ▶▶▶▶ awildgoose, replying to JaneHarry, #951 of 1795 🔗

The vote counts are so tainted no one will ever really know.

Of course, that is probably a feature, rather than a bug.

362311 JamesM, replying to JamesM, 32, #952 of 1795 🔗

Dominic Lawson wrote a vitriolic piece in today’s Sunday Times attacking Lockdown Sceptics and Toby in particular. Leaving aside the fact that Lawson’s arguments are open to challenge (how many of the excess deaths reported by ONS have been caused by lockdown measures, for instance?), he also need to answer the question of whether he believes no price is too high to pay to allow Whitty and other SAGE members to continue the lockdown policy for as long as they see fit. Does he ever stop to think about the economic and social devastation all this is causing? Of course, all this vitriol comes from a wealthy man who can self-isolate in celebrious surroundings and whose livelihood is not under threat.

362314 ▶▶ Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, replying to JamesM, 17, #953 of 1795 🔗

The Clappers can’t see past their own virtue signalling. They don’t actaully give a shit, which is why they don’t investigate. Nor do they understand how much damage has been done, and they won’t give a shit about that either, until it effects them. Their opinons are worthless.

362334 ▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, 7, #954 of 1795 🔗

They never did give a shit. Class warfare is alive and well.

362344 ▶▶▶▶ Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, replying to bebophaircut, 2, #955 of 1795 🔗

Oh yeah.

362347 ▶▶ BJJ, replying to JamesM, 6, #956 of 1795 🔗

The man is hysterical with fear. He is in the most vulnarable group. I would gladly sacrifice him for the millions he is willing to sacrifice for his own well-being. This is not about logic. This is about choosing whom to sacrifice. In my army he would be in the front row on D-Day. Or is that maybe to “dangerous” for him?

362349 ▶▶▶ BJJ, replying to BJJ, 3, #957 of 1795 🔗

Besides, this flu is not all that dangerous anyway.

362365 ▶▶▶ JamesM, replying to BJJ, 7, #958 of 1795 🔗

I am in a relatively high-risk group, but I’m prepared to take my chances for a number of reasons, not the least of which is preserving life opportunities for young people.

362313 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #959 of 1795 🔗

Just sent this to the idiot MP O’Brien in support of Toby:


362330 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress 2021, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #960 of 1795 🔗

Who is this guy, and who is pulling his chain, and why? He is also having a spat with Julia H-B on twatter I think. He is not acting and speaking rationally.

362352 ▶▶▶ isobar, replying to Tyneside Tigress 2021, 13, #961 of 1795 🔗

An ambitious MP who previously criticised the GBD. Obviously well qualified as he has a 1st Class degree in Philosophy, Politics and Economics from Oxford (sarcasm intended). Oh hang on, isn’t that what a Hancock has, I wonder if they were contemporaries? Two critical articles in one day in different papers suggest to me that the establishment is worried that the current lockdown is tanking, as it indeed seems to be. 😀

362405 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress 2021, replying to isobar, 1, #962 of 1795 🔗

Yes, at Oxford at the same time, but different colleges.

362368 ▶▶ mj, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #963 of 1795 🔗

that is one hell of a letter a,g, my compliments .

362379 ▶▶ LMS2, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #964 of 1795 🔗

Very comprehensive. It could have done with a bit more punctuation to break up the sentences would make it more readable, but I congratulate you on writing it.
I might send send a version of this to my MP, if you don’t mind.

As for explanation for the unscientific, and damaging policies enacted by our government, this possibly explains it:

Tom Woods radio podcast: Ep. 1814 What Is the “Great Reset”?

Covid 19 is an excuse and not a reason for closing down the economy. It’s what they wanted to do for a long time, and tried using climate change, but CV19 gave them the perfect excuse.

362382 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to LMS2, #965 of 1795 🔗

Feel free to use what you want.

362320 bebophaircut, 7, #966 of 1795 🔗

Mark Windows referred to PM Boris Johnson as the Bullington Underachiever in his ‘Community Control Grid’ talk.

362325 Banjones, 4, #967 of 1795 🔗

This page from the Back To Normal website is very good.

362329 bebophaircut, replying to bebophaircut, 18, #968 of 1795 🔗

Ferguson’s recent media appearances proves that these people are shameless, intransigent. They are not going to change their narratives and will continue to shove them in our faces until we find a way to destroy them. I am living in a 8 P.M. curfew law in Montreal that was targetted to last four weeks. It could easily be extended. Time for a revolt.

362448 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to bebophaircut, 2, #969 of 1795 🔗

agreed, this has been annoying. BBC and LBC have been interviewing Ferguson without challenge. Fortunately Matt Frei on LBC did question on air today why Ferguson was being interviewed.

362468 ▶▶ Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, replying to bebophaircut, 2, #970 of 1795 🔗

Did you read about the Quebec couple who got huge fines because she put a dog collar and leash on her partner and “took him for a walk” at 9 p.m.? That one did make me laugh. Also made me wonder if the fines would have been larger had the collared man taken a piss on his “walk!” Dougie decided against curfew in Ontario, but I wouldn’t say it’s off the table at some point in the near future when “cases” keep rising despite our “state of emergency.”

362331 BJJ, replying to BJJ, 32, #971 of 1795 🔗

The revolution spreads
Following the promulgation of Decree-Law no. 6-A / 2021, of 14 January, and after
an assessment of the facts present consistent with our moral and ethical principles,
as well as with the spirit – and the letter – of the Constitution of the Portuguese Republic, we,
………………………………………….. ………………………………………….. ………………………………………….. …….
we decided to keep open ……………………………………….. ………………………………………….. …………,
invoking article 21 of the Constitution of the Portuguese Republic – Right to
We understand that human rights have been widely violated and that
Constitution of the Portuguese Republic has been trampled underfoot. As it turned out well
explicit in agreement No. 1783 / 20.7T8PDL.L1-3 of the Lisbon Court of Appeal,
dated 11 November 2020, the State has no legitimacy, in circumstances
not to undermine citizens’ rights, freedoms and guarantees.
When the Authority that has the duty to defend and govern us, takes our
companies and our families to financial ruin, depriving us of the right to subsistence,
after a life of blood, sweat and tears, it is a sign that it is urgent to reflect and
Act. Contrary to what they want us to believe, we are essential. Essentials
to our family, essential to our employees and their families, essential to
our suppliers and their families, essential to our landlords and their
essential to our customers, essential to art and artists, essential to
culture and the community.
After the 10-month spill of impressive evidence that
the alarmism surrounding Covid-19 is unjustified and that containment measures
are, in addition to being disproportionate, savagely counterproductive, we refuse to
passively and cowardly to accept this continuous violation of our dignity and
our fundamental rights.
The defense of public health should not and cannot become an alibi for an attack
against the life and freedom of the Portuguese people.

362339 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to BJJ, 12, #972 of 1795 🔗

Superb. Anyone who wants to argue against such a proclamation is not interested in freedom

362342 ▶▶ Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, replying to BJJ, 13, #973 of 1795 🔗

Smell of Revolution in the air. At last. Smells like….mmmmm….freedom.

362427 ▶▶ Annie, replying to BJJ, 4, #974 of 1795 🔗

I salute whoever wrote that.

362931 ▶▶ jrsm, replying to BJJ, #975 of 1795 🔗

That’s a great letter. Unfortunately, the Right to Resistance that they mention is explicitly suspended in the Constitution when the idiots in charge (Parliament, Government and President) jointly declare the State of Emergency – which has been in force since November.

362332 Edward, replying to Edward, 16, #976 of 1795 🔗

Sunday Telegraph covid coverage a bit mixed as usual. Almost unshakeable faith in the effectiveness of vaccines. Daniel Hannan better than of late, headline “Freedom won’t survive a world where every lethal virus triggers another shutdown”. In the business section Jeremy Warner calls for a road map out of lockdown.
Also in the business section, “Bailout plea as Eurostar faces collapse”. What a surprise! – travel mostly banned, passenger numbers down 95%, what else could be expected? In other news, the Pope is a member of the Roman Catholic Church. I’ll leave the bears out of it at this time.

362424 ▶▶ Annie, replying to Edward, 5, #977 of 1795 🔗

Lethal virus?

362343 Mark, replying to Mark, 12, #978 of 1795 🔗

Don’t know if this has been posted here before, but here’s the establishment case for panicking, argued by the FT:

‘It’s not a bad flu season’ – Covid myths debunked with data
My response to the person who sent me the link is below, be interested if anyone has other observations.

Scaremongering fear propaganda, but very cleverly done propaganda, and making a lot of points which are technically correct but nevertheless serve to increase fear.

Starts off by giving a false position based on “case numbers”, then effectively points out the response and pretends to address it. The “case numbers” do exaggerate the situation vastly, but as he points out, that doesn’t entirely remove the higher numbers. On the “case” numbers, it suggests three times as many icu patients, whereas when he gives the more plausible number of all icu patients, we get 40% more icu patients, a much more honest seeming number.

The “case” numbers given in the first two minutes of the video are black propaganda, basically – scary numbers misrepresenting reality. He even explains why, but pretends to “debunk” that criticism by implying (laughably) that the testing for flu in a normal year is even within orders of magnitude of the numbers testing for covid this year, and by asserting that mostly people with symptoms of covid are tested for covid, when in fact as I understand it for some time now a covid test has been required for all hospital inpatients. That has never been done for flu, obviously.

For the overall position you have to step back and say how significant are these numbers of increased deaths? He’s talking about 50k extra deaths in the epidemic and 15k deaths so far in the winter seasonal upturn. To me, those numbers are not particularly big in national terms, considering a lot of them were people who would have died this year anyway (we know the average age of death with covid earlier in the year was over 80 years old). The fact is that the only reliable numbers are the all cause deaths (and we know some of those are caused by lockdown, not by covid, but we don’t have a good numerical handle on that yet). We know that usually 500k-550k die every year in England and Wales. We don’t have the final numbers analysed for the full year yet, but we know that after the first eight months including the big epidemic peak, all cause deaths (including deaths caused by lockdown), adjusted for age and pop size, were only marginally up on the normal numbers, last year’s anomalously low figure aside, and in fact only took us back to numbers normal in 2008 and all previous years.

It’s likely the numbers will be up this year on a normal winter, but how much they will be up overall nobody knows.

Imo “bad flu season” is still the best way to describe it, even if you have to say “very bad”. This is not a disease that is killing vast numbers or much affecting people who are not basically dying of old age.

362360 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, 5, #979 of 1795 🔗

You’re absolutely right, Mark. The fear is perpetuated by duff numbers and, now, by direct manipulation of numbers that aren’t duff (‘Worst since WWII’ etc.). The latter are simply lies by another name.

My description would be ‘a high (but not exceptional) infection year’. And it’s certainly not ‘unprecedented’ – that is clearly a falsehood.

The latter part of last year has actually been remarkably average.

362381 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Mark, 6, #980 of 1795 🔗

basically dying of old age.

Apparently no one dies of old age, no matter how old, or how advanced the decline.

However, in Norway, the medical authorities have made a point of stressing that the vaccine deaths were old people and so the timing might well be coincidental.

362449 ▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, 4, #981 of 1795 🔗

All good points. However, I think it’s also worth pointing out that:

1) it is very hard to believe that the data sets reported (“case” numbers, admitted following a PCR +ve test) need to be as opaque as they are. In a genuine crisis, it would be straightforward to point out the actual numbers that are driving the actual crisis:

“The proportion of people testing positive has increased from 15% to 25% over a 7 day period. 10, 000 people were admitted to hospital in the last 7 days to be treated for symptoms of covid. 2,000 people were discharged from hospitals in the same period. As a result of this and other admissions, hospital bed occupancy is currently 110% of normal levels, equating to 98% of surge capacity. ICU beds are currently at 99% capacity, with 80% of ICU patients being treated for COVID or COVID-like symptoms. 800 new deaths were reported yesterday with COVID listed as the main cause of death, or as a contributory factor on the death certificate. Of those 800 deaths, 524 occurred yesterday, with the remaining 276 having a date of death during the preceding 3 months, due to reporting delays.”*

That’s clarity of information that does not obfuscate and demonstrates that there is a real problem. As you know, that’s not what we’re given. As a result, we can only theorise.

2) Irrespective of the above, a crisis – real or invented – cannot be a justification for lockdown unless and until there is a demonstrated link between NPIs/lockdowns and a reduction in the infection rate and/or hospitalisations. People have been told that we need to lock down in order to save “our” NHS and so they believe it. But it ain’t so, because lockdown does nothing to the the numbers as far as anyone has so far been able to demonstrate. I understand the logic of why lockdown should work to reduce infections, but “it stands to reason, doesn’t it” is not a good basis for any policy, much less one that is so plainly destructive in its collateral damage.

*NB – I’m not suggesting that these numbers are accurate. I made them up to illustrate a point

362356 Ken Garoo, replying to Ken Garoo, 36, #982 of 1795 🔗

“As is the claim that people can have Covid many times – without qualifying it by saying if this has happened at all it has been very rare.”

I think my personal experience offers an explanation for this. I am retired and have asthma. In early Jan 2020 I came down with something that I thought was flu but rapidly became sure it was not (having had flu with subsequent pneumonia in 2017). I was totally bed-ridden for two weeks, persistent dry cough, sometimes high temperature. I was taking only fluids so didn’t notice and loss of taste/smell. After two weeks the condition disappeared as rapidly as it came on. Other than being weak from two weeks bed rest with no food (I lost ~ 7lbs weight) I was back to normal. Then about 1 week later, the condition recured in exactly the same way, leaving me bed-ridden for just one week. The condition then again disappeared as quickly as it came on, only to recurr a third time after two weeks of normality. The thrid episode lasted afew days then I was back to normal have have been so ever since.

Whilst not I medic, I do work with and have published papers with medics, including real epidemiologists (one of them was involved in studies looking at the effects of lead on childhood cognitive development) and individuals from one of the UKs major child health entities. I suspect an average person might have thought they were infected two or three times. I, on the other hand, view it as just one infection, with the episodes evidence of a ‘battle’ between the new pathogen and my immune system. Both sides won ‘battles’ during progess of the disease but eventually the immune system won the ‘war’.

I put down my survival to being fortunately unaware of the ‘fact’that I was supposed to die from the ‘worst disease ever known to mankind’.

362422 ▶▶ Annie, replying to Ken Garoo, 7, #983 of 1795 🔗

Thank you for that accurate and rational account.

362455 ▶▶ Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, replying to Ken Garoo, 14, #984 of 1795 🔗

Your last sentence sums up something I’ve been thinking about for a while now. In your case, had you come down with the same illness in April or May, would you have panicked and gone to the hospital? I know there are stories of people in NYC who panicked and were put on ventilators and subsequently died, probably not having had Covid (or at least not needing a ventilator). I think I might have had it in December 2019 — nothing as severe as what you describe, but despite never having had a dry cough like that and it lasting almost a month, I really didn’t think much of it. But had I had the same illness 6 months later, would I have “felt” my symptoms differently and, possibly, exacerbated them by being in a hyper-aware, panicked state? The way we experience something can be manipulated by what is going on around us — it was a huge theme in my MA thesis. I subscribe to the theory that had there been no naming of Covid-19 and the ensuing panic and 24-hour media fear porn, that slightly more people may have died in 2020 but that nobody would have been any the wiser.

362553 ▶▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, 3, #985 of 1795 🔗

I subscribe to that theory as well.

362358 Cecil B, 5, #986 of 1795 🔗



If that’s flak we must be over the target

362367 Jo, replying to Jo, 22, #987 of 1795 🔗

Many on left still think UK govt wanted to pursue ‘herd immunity’. But the contract for the lockdown advertising was signed on 2nd March ‘20! That would have followed weeks of planning. Decision to lockdown prob taken in Jan: everything else was theatre. https:// rt.com/op-ed/504818-c ovid19-reverse-psychology-johnson/

Interesting article in RT. Says that messaging for lockdown was devised weeks before the start, so showing that Johnson planned it way ahead. Helped, of course, by the so-called opposition.

362383 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress 2021, replying to Jo, 6, #988 of 1795 🔗

Agree Jo, agreed (by whom?) between 20 and 24 January. If it were possible to seize email servers and text/phone messages from a named set of individuals in that period, it would likely become very clear.

362390 ▶▶▶ Jo, replying to Tyneside Tigress 2021, 3, #989 of 1795 🔗

At least between Johnson and unknown others – and the company who made up the stay home protect the NHS saves lives shit.

362392 ▶▶▶▶ Jo, replying to Jo, 3, #990 of 1795 🔗

Perhaps AG can do an FOI request and find out who the company was… or perhaps Neil Clark who wrote the article for RT would know (but presumably has to protect source)

362407 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Jo, 8, #991 of 1795 🔗

Cabinet Office in charge of doing this sort of thing.

Spending a lot of money monthly with Endemol/OMD.

The FOI answer from the Cabinet Office about personalities etc to preach the covid narrative, not looked at the links they sent me properly yet but answer is yes they are doing it and the info is hidden in the contracts finder site you just have to find it.

On this link:


£119 000 000 on that one contract alone but I’ve queried it with them as according to that web page the contract is only 6 days long.

Contract start date

26 August 2020
Contract end date

31 August 2020.

I’ve sent a query on that one.

I also opened one at random from here https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/cabinet-office-spend-data , few covid-19 media payments made including





362435 ▶▶▶ jonathan Palmer, replying to Tyneside Tigress 2021, 9, #992 of 1795 🔗

Johnson’s speech on the March 13 shows that the decision to lock down had already been taken before Ferguson turned up with his model on the 16th.

362479 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress 2021, replying to jonathan Palmer, 5, #993 of 1795 🔗

Agree. Not sure when the Ferguson model was commissioned, or by whom. It used a specific Chinese dataset from Hubei from early February, according to the published paper in The Lancet. On January 24 the editor of The Lancet appeared to change stance. The Drosten paper is also in this timeframe.

362571 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Tyneside Tigress 2021, 2, #994 of 1795 🔗

That is very fascinating, and scary. Are you sure? Used to dealing with documents as you are, I’d listen to your ideas with interest.

But why was the decision taken so early? Did they already know/suspect the thing had escaped from a lab? That it had been part engineered?

And wouldn’t Trump, or someone, have opened their mouths before now?

362697 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress 2021, replying to TJN, 1, #995 of 1795 🔗

I think it is difficult to know exactly what happened when, and who was driving decision making. By most accounts Mr Johnson was AWOL throughout much of the first couple of months of 2020. IMHO the minutes of SAGE meetings are ‘minutes of minutes’ – it would be interesting to see the pre-meeting agenda notes, and the file notes from the civil servants present (of course, we won’t) A chronology of events, with all ‘chatter’ from late January would be very helpful in piecing together the jigsaw, as that was when things started to happen. A ‘500k will die’ model does not suddenly appear out of thin air. A Royal Commission with power of subpoena would be the place, as long as everything is out on the table – we all have a right to know.

362842 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Tyneside Tigress 2021, 1, #996 of 1795 🔗

Indeed. And someone blabbing would be nice.

Agree that the SAGE minutes are minutes-of-minutes. There for public consumption rather than as a record of what went on.

362370 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 2, #997 of 1795 🔗


apparently “ NHS England under ‘extreme pressure’ due to Covid”

that’s the first I’ve heard of it. BBC behind the curve?

362737 ▶▶ Richy_m_99, replying to steve_w, #998 of 1795 🔗

Not to mention “ Covid victim admitted to hospital every 30 seconds”


Personally, I don’t think that is quite as catchy as the title “There’s a sucker born every minute, which apparently appears to be the case if you believe that.

362372 danny, replying to danny, 50, #999 of 1795 🔗

Troubling to see the lynch mobs going for Sumption today. Good example of the way that emotion and hyperbole now rule the day.
A Supreme Court judge (retired) is entirely right to say that a stage 4 cancer sufferer is less important than others. He was making a legal and medical distinction, not moral. To suggest otherwise is to ignore rational society and how it works. A child having a heart attack will be attended to far more intensively than a 90 year old with the same ailment. That is the way of things.
In fact, lockdown fanatics have long made a similar judgment, deeming the cost of lockdown, cancelled operations, suicides, childhood poverty, end to third world aid, as worth doing to save a single Covid life.

362378 ▶▶ Hellonearth, replying to danny, 26, #1000 of 1795 🔗

Amazing how so many people can’t see what hypocrites they actually are. The amount of people who I have spoken to about the numbers who will die either directly or indirectly due to the lockdowns, they seem to let that go over their heads and continue about the amount of people dying of Covid. I feel like screaming and shaking them till their brain wobbles, fkin idiots.

362386 ▶▶ DanClarke, replying to danny, 8, #1001 of 1795 🔗

Of course, the example they chose to make a case of, was a 39 year old, which was obviously going to cause a bigger controversial impact than if they had talked about an elderly person. The media are not going to waste any propaganda which assists the covid maniacs

362391 ▶▶ RickH, replying to danny, 9, #1002 of 1795 🔗

The alternative position is just empty and sentimental virtue-signalling passing for ‘concern’.

362393 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to danny, 9, #1003 of 1795 🔗

It occurs to me, that based on current rates, 1 in 2 children will develop cancer at some point in their lifespan. Short term and emotional thinking ignores this. Some of those children will be in the same position as the woman on the TV show in years to come, but in a worse state after growing up in a damaged economy with poor education, poor employment prospects, social isolation and all the accompanying health problems. I am glad that this individual has received good care and treatment, but what does the future hold when lockdown has deprived the charities who fund research and provide practical support to patients battling illness and disease of their income? It seems that she thinks her life is more, not equally, important (and of course to her and her family it will be) than any other. Sumption is correct, in my opinion, even in moral terms.

362416 ▶▶ Van Allen, replying to danny, 8, #1004 of 1795 🔗

At least, the 77 brigade were late coming to the party on this one judging by the number of comments upvoted agreeing with Lord Sumption.

362440 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to danny, 8, #1005 of 1795 🔗

not surprising they are going for Lord Sumption after Toby the other day. I imagine Peter Hitchens will come under attack soon.

362598 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to crimsonpirate, 5, #1006 of 1795 🔗

Yea – but is ‘e bovvered?
I doubt it.
What staggers me is that most people have not the slightest idea just how rare it is for someone in the position that he has held to speak out in any way about these subjects. The very fact that he is saying anything at all, speaks volumes about the importance of his doubts and fears.

362501 ▶▶ redbirdpete, replying to danny, 17, #1007 of 1795 🔗

I lost my wife to cancer, so I feel I can be quite unbiased. Once cancer becomes terminal all you can do is relieve the pain – no point in wasting further money on chemotherapy or whatever. Do you really want to see your wife/husband/partner destroyed by pain and disease or would you (and he or her) rather they go with some dignity?

362547 ▶▶▶ Annie, replying to redbirdpete, 6, #1008 of 1795 🔗

That is, or ought to be, unanswerable.

362542 ▶▶ Annie, replying to danny, 6, #1009 of 1795 🔗

All true, but when you’re speaking to brainless sheeples and their controllers, truth and logic don’t carry any weight.

362373 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 28, #1010 of 1795 🔗

Heiko Maas, Germany’s Foreign Minister, has told a newspaper that “vaccinated people should be allowed to exercise basic rights again” including going to restaurants and the cinema.

mmm – dangerous road to go down

362490 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to steve_w, 6, #1011 of 1795 🔗

Even Ld supporters and some MSM have criticised that comment.

362527 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to steve_w, 4, #1012 of 1795 🔗

Very dangerous and not just for the obvious reason.

362375 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 37, #1013 of 1795 🔗

Prof Edmunds tells Times Radio: “If you’re going to have quarantine then you should probably make it as effective as you possibly can.
“Ours has been rather lax, not just for visitors coming into the UK, the vast majority of whom do not have Covid, but we’ve also been rather lax with our quarantine of individuals who have been in direct contact with a case; indigenous cases.”

Edmunds going head to head with Ferguson for title of Worlds Biggest Cunt

362388 ▶▶ BJJ, replying to steve_w, 10, #1014 of 1795 🔗

So let´s ruin the economy, just to be on the safe side.

362389 ▶▶ RickH, replying to steve_w, 19, #1015 of 1795 🔗

The ignorance of some highly qualified academics is a thing to behold.

I limit my use of the term ‘Cupid Stunt’ – but in these cases, one is left with little else.

One thing at least proved by this shit-show :

Never put an epidemiologist, a public health academic, or a modeller’ in a position of dictating policy. (Sorry to offend the good guys – but better safe than sorry)

362398 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to RickH, 6, #1016 of 1795 🔗

the modellers aren’t needed any more now we have a year of data but I think this and PCR driven stats is all SAGE look at

362526 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to steve_w, 2, #1017 of 1795 🔗

Modellers are fine so long as MSM and policymakers don’t only see the upper numbers!

363104 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to RickH, 1, #1018 of 1795 🔗

Ferguson’s Imperial takes mega money from Gates and similarly the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, where Edmunds hangs out, is also a major beneficiary of the Gates largesse.

When Chris Whitty was at the London School, old Bill was even then handing it mega millions and no doubt he’s still at it. A very strong pattern clearly and now Bill is calling in the favours he is owed and these guys all owe Bill big time.

One more point to ponder, Chris Whitty is lined up for a job in the Gates controlled WHO when he’s finished wrecking at home. You couldn’t make it up and of course you don’t have to.

362423 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to steve_w, 9, #1019 of 1795 🔗

Serial Abusers Group Entity Edmunds wants to lock everyone up until the virus has gone. This is called the “Zero intelligence” option. I said a while ago that the best and cheapest option would be to bury the entire population 6 feet under until the virus is eradicated. At the time I thought that was a bit extreme but Prof Edmund’s suggestions sound quite similar.

363070 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to godowneasy, 1, #1020 of 1795 🔗

Burying us six feet under is what the vaccines are all about.

362376 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 24, #1021 of 1795 🔗

I’ve just scared myself. Been reading teh Social Democrats website and agreed with some of their policies.

Shock horror.

The world is certainly being turned upside down and inside out.

362380 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1022 of 1795 🔗

their covid stuff is better than what we have – they like masks though


362535 ▶▶▶ Annie, replying to steve_w, 3, #1023 of 1795 🔗

The maskoidity is a bitter pill.But they do seem to embrace the original (?) idea that masks should enable people to get out and mingle. Bozo was saying that way back in the summer, before it became obvious that masks were a tool of terror and persecution.

362575 ▶▶▶ Prof Feargoeson, replying to steve_w, 1, #1024 of 1795 🔗

If you’re a leaver then Heritage Party tick many many boxes and their leader is already on the London Assembly.

362402 ▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #1025 of 1795 🔗

Don’t fall for the framing techniques. They love to use word salads that look good but hide a bitter taste.

362441 ▶▶ dhid, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #1026 of 1795 🔗

Just sit down and have a cup of tea or coffee – you’ll be ok in a minute.
Could it have been a bad dream? Lol!

362500 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1027 of 1795 🔗

So long as it wasn’t the Liberal Democrats, you should be all right.

362651 ▶▶▶ Skippy, replying to Nick Rose, #1028 of 1795 🔗

The Dithering Cricketbats have a better policy than them!

362377 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 7, #1029 of 1795 🔗


‘covid admissions’ levelling off around the 7th-12th Jan

this was the peak winter infectivity date and as ‘covid admissions’ are driven by false positives which are driven by contamination which is driven by the amount going round at any one time, you’d expect it to

‘patients in hospital’ and ‘deaths’ will lag because they are driven by a) false positives b) multiple testing over the last 28 days

362413 ▶▶ RickH, replying to steve_w, 8, #1030 of 1795 🔗

I’m waiting until the second week of February – or perhaps later to update the summary of all-cause mortality. It’s about then that we shall see the true pattern – beyond all the hospital panic shit and obfuscation.

362514 ▶▶▶ jb12, replying to RickH, 1, #1031 of 1795 🔗

Yes, but the problem is the hysteria will have had the time to work its way in and nothing said after will have any bearing on the perspective of the sheeple.

362394 Silke David, replying to Silke David, 38, #1032 of 1795 🔗

On my local nextdoor page someone complained that people leaving the catholic church were piling through the doors all at once and not “sd”.
I did my usual and replied that people are free to do what they want and decide on their own which “risks” they are willing to expose themselves to.
I also mentioned that asymptomatic transmission does not exist, it is a myth that originated from 1 case, which since has been proved wrong, and backed up by a peer reviewed large study involving 400k people.
Hopefully, as I have backed up my statement with some facts they easily can research themselves, it will make someone think for a second.

362404 ▶▶ Van Allen, replying to Silke David, 15, #1033 of 1795 🔗

Good luck but unfortunately reasoning and logic seem to be no longer important.

362481 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Van Allen, 7, #1034 of 1795 🔗

At least I challenged it, maybe someone takes notice. The commenters supporting that complaint will be plenty.

362555 ▶▶▶▶ rockoman, replying to Silke David, 2, #1035 of 1795 🔗

Well done – if just one more person sees sense.

363065 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Van Allen, #1036 of 1795 🔗

If it’s not law they can’t take you to court, so refuse to be fined.

362415 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Silke David, 20, #1037 of 1795 🔗

Social distancing is not and never has been law in England from what I understand – awaiting confirmation on a FOI request about this.

It’s a guideline only and they have no force of law, no legal standing and are not enforceable.

362484 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #1038 of 1795 🔗

The commenter was more like “how can they not understand the risk and they will all infect granny now!”

362488 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Silke David, 2, #1039 of 1795 🔗

What isn’t a risk?

362689 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1040 of 1795 🔗

Social Distancing is the most evil idea anybody has ever though about in the history of thinking as well as the stupidest.

362470 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Silke David, 6, #1041 of 1795 🔗

“.. it will make someone think for a second.”

An optimist! 🙂

362474 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to RickH, 5, #1042 of 1795 🔗

That’s why I used “a second” as time frame.

362483 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to RickH, 5, #1043 of 1795 🔗

Live in Hope, die in Caergwrle, as we say around here.

362532 ▶▶▶▶ Annie, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1044 of 1795 🔗

Or, as we say in the south, say Llanelli and sadlidie.

362522 ▶▶ penelope pitstop, replying to Silke David, 4, #1045 of 1795 🔗

post and duck waiting for the sanctimonious, vitriol replies.

362397 bebophaircut, 3, #1046 of 1795 🔗

Listen to this Mark Windows recent episode:
‘Community Control Grid’ and check this 2010 online text ‘Communitarian Handbook’.

362401 Jo, replying to Jo, 27, #1047 of 1795 🔗

Apparently there are now “extreme” lockdown skeptics. How absurd. If it’s, say, 7 am, can it be extremely 7 am. When you say that lockdowns don’t work and wreck healthy people’s lives, that’s precisely what you mean. There cannot be a view more, or less extreme than that.

Michael McConville, GP

362433 ▶▶ JaneHarry, replying to Jo, 12, #1048 of 1795 🔗

I’ll hold my hand up to being an ‘extreme’ lockdown sceptic, whatever that is; we are right, they are wrong; we are good, they are evil; we tell the truth, and they lie. I brook no dissent with them, I do not give them the benefit of the doubt, I do not attribute good motives or honest mistake to them, I do not believe they deserve to be listened to or taken seriously – they should be crushed, destroyed, end of. It really is that stark and that simple.

362460 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to JaneHarry, 10, #1049 of 1795 🔗

Yes – I think we should tell it as it is. This stupid shit-show is perpetuated by extreme totalitarians, incipient fascists and an assorted crew of sociopathic and psychopathic misfits – as well as the more mundane pole-climbers.

Opposition to it is the moderate position.

362528 ▶▶▶ Annie, replying to JaneHarry, 4, #1050 of 1795 🔗

Hear hear. Let’s be extreme,

362436 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to Jo, 2, #1051 of 1795 🔗

Jo, your analogy itself reveals a binary black-and-white, true v false way of thinking that would certainly be described as ‘extreme.’ Unless we are willing to compromise our own position to the point of incoherence, we are extreme.

Interestingly, this is always a one-way street. The suggestion that lockdown fans ought to consider alternative approaches on their merits is of course…extreme. Pointing out that basic asymmetry is…extreme. All dissent from the correct narrative is…extreme – unless it is shifting progressively towards the correct narrative.

362451 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Jo, 2, #1052 of 1795 🔗

Calling a position is but a step away from calling anyone who expresses any support for that position and extremist, and extremist is someone who has been construed as a terrorist.

362412 alw, replying to alw, 27, #1053 of 1795 🔗

After yesterdays awful weather the sun out and in my part of North London all the parks busy, people having picnics and enjoying themselves, mixing and not a policeman in sight. 😁

362485 ▶▶ redbirdpete, replying to alw, 16, #1054 of 1795 🔗

Much the same here in North Wales, plus many houses with multiple cars outside that are not normally there. Group of people camped further up the mountainside.

The Covidians are losing, the media just haven’t realised yet.

362417 alw, replying to alw, 9, #1055 of 1795 🔗

1 Its a long one… Firstly, let’s just be clear; someone who thinks that the approach to Covid management should have been different, is not a Covid Denier. This is an insult hurled by those wanting lockdowns to try and smear any other thought process. And it is an insult.2 Now I have that off my chest, I decided to have a look at the things I have said and written since March 2019 that have seen some vilify, insult and try and smear me. How did these things stand up in the face of Covid being very real? (Source: https://threader.app/thread/1350466402818400260 )

362503 ▶▶ frankfrankly, replying to alw, 1, #1056 of 1795 🔗

Someone asking why the Govt didn’t follow the Influenza Pandemic Plan 2011/14 would be a Covid denier nowadays

362519 ▶▶ Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, replying to alw, 2, #1057 of 1795 🔗

I think that makes you a Covid denier denier?

362418 JHUNTZ, replying to JHUNTZ, 38, #1058 of 1795 🔗

Priti Patel is set to give police powers to break up ‘super-spreader’ house parties | Daily Mail Online

Just looking at these comments regards holding of parties. When do people propose the young get their life back. Have we just to put off all fun indefinetely? How does this not matter whatsoever?

362426 ▶▶ awildgoose, replying to JHUNTZ, 34, #1059 of 1795 🔗

I find the focus on shutting down the lives of the youth utterly bizarre.

This is simply not something any healthy society does to its future.

362445 ▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to awildgoose, 8, #1060 of 1795 🔗

The future is bleak. That is exactly what the Globalists want.

362456 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to bebophaircut, 14, #1061 of 1795 🔗

Not really. A bleak future means unhappy, uncooperative people. And unhappy, uncooperative people makes rulers’ lives a misery.

362494 ▶▶▶ JHUNTZ, replying to awildgoose, 9, #1062 of 1795 🔗

The bit that gets me is surely for every youth there is a couple of parents. are the supposed ‘adults’ not concerned about this lack of socialising?

362929 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JHUNTZ, #1063 of 1795 🔗

Too busy hiding under their beds.

362524 ▶▶▶ Janette, replying to awildgoose, 3, #1064 of 1795 🔗

It’s totally unnecessary too!

363059 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to awildgoose, 1, #1065 of 1795 🔗

But it’s not a healthy society and worse, it has a very unhealthy and totally corrupt government.

362454 ▶▶ RickH, replying to JHUNTZ, 7, #1066 of 1795 🔗

Patel has a close relationship with the Israeli State – as we know. By your friends ye shall be known – oppressors band together.

362458 ▶▶▶ Christopher, replying to RickH, 4, #1067 of 1795 🔗

Total Zio – stooge , but then again most of them are .

362463 ▶▶▶▶ alw, replying to Christopher, -6, #1068 of 1795 🔗

You too.

362459 ▶▶▶ alw, replying to RickH, -13, #1069 of 1795 🔗

Anti Semite.

362475 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to alw, 9, #1070 of 1795 🔗

You don’t understand the term, do you?

Try not to display ignorance so blatantly – it betrays an idiot’s brain.

I suggest you go educate yourself a bit before resorting to insult.

362492 ▶▶▶▶▶ Luckyharry69, replying to RickH, 2, #1071 of 1795 🔗


362487 ▶▶▶▶ JHUNTZ, replying to alw, 5, #1072 of 1795 🔗

That’s the entrenched response they want you to make. Similar to the ‘conspiracy theory’ or ‘far right’ label indoctrination.

362439 bebophaircut, replying to bebophaircut, 2, #1073 of 1795 🔗

Social change theory. Impose change on the masses.

362453 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to bebophaircut, 16, #1074 of 1795 🔗

Luckily, that’s not going very well. They’re only just holding on to the lockdown. Very little evidence of the lockdown while out and about today…

362444 Stephen Priest, 4, #1075 of 1795 🔗

120,000 Care Home Staff Refuse JAB / Hugo Talks #lockdown


362447 bebophaircut, 2, #1076 of 1795 🔗

Earth First. Check it out. Depopulation.

362450 bebophaircut, replying to bebophaircut, 12, #1077 of 1795 🔗

No back to normal, vaccine or no vaccine. Lies, lies, lies. Global Action Plan too important to return to ‘normal’.

362570 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to bebophaircut, 5, #1078 of 1795 🔗

Those people rushing to be jabbed are going to be so pi$$ed when they discover they’ve been jabbed for nothing, it changes nothing but their genetic code.

362461 bebophaircut, 2, #1079 of 1795 🔗

Crown Agents. Another global group. They are everywhere. Minute 23 Mark Windows ‘Community Control Kill Grid’.
World Debt Reset Program from Canada.

362464 Fingerache Philip, replying to Fingerache Philip, 28, #1080 of 1795 🔗

Family (whatever that means) trips to supermarkets may be banned (Mail on line).

362466 ▶▶ jonathan Palmer, replying to Fingerache Philip, 8, #1081 of 1795 🔗

Already happening.Tescos are asking you to shop alone

362473 ▶▶▶ Fiona Walker, replying to jonathan Palmer, 24, #1082 of 1795 🔗

They did this in spring when it first started. We simply took a trolley each and met up inside.

362482 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to Fiona Walker, 11, #1083 of 1795 🔗

More than one way to skin a cat, rabbit or sheep, come to that.

362491 ▶▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Fiona Walker, 4, #1084 of 1795 🔗

As did many, I recall.

362496 ▶▶▶▶ sunny66, replying to Fiona Walker, 5, #1085 of 1795 🔗

That’s exactly what I did!

362515 ▶▶▶▶ jonathan Palmer, replying to Fiona Walker, 9, #1086 of 1795 🔗

I was asked to leave my local co op for shopping with my wife

362478 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to jonathan Palmer, 8, #1087 of 1795 🔗

Sainsburys too.

362493 ▶▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Fingerache Philip, 9, #1088 of 1795 🔗

Easy to get around. Wife and daughter queue up together than regroup as soon as they’ve passed the border guards. Complete nonsense.

362622 ▶▶▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 5, #1089 of 1795 🔗

Future historians will write of these as the days when going shopping required the formation of an escape committee, as if you were in Stalag Luft III rather than, say, Harrogate.

362489 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to jonathan Palmer, 17, #1090 of 1795 🔗

I never use Tesco now. But, in any case, my tinnitus is about to get worse.

(I always shop alone, but I’m now going to make sure I take my elderly neighbour with me – she’s up for a bit of rebellion, even though she’s not really a sceptic but it’s just that at 95 she wants a bit of excitement!)

362550 ▶▶▶▶ jonathan Palmer, replying to Banjones, 7, #1091 of 1795 🔗

Didn’t you used to get a Cub Scout badge for that.Now it’s an act of rebellion.What strange time’s we live in.

362469 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Fingerache Philip, 8, #1092 of 1795 🔗

A single parent with children under a certain age will surely not leave them at home, and childcare might be impossible.
Just shows that they think from 12pm to noon.

362472 ▶▶ Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, replying to Fingerache Philip, 11, #1093 of 1795 🔗

It’s the Governemnt. So yes. They have unlimited reserves of stupid.

362486 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip, replying to Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, 4, #1094 of 1795 🔗

And then some!!!

362511 ▶▶▶▶ Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, replying to Fingerache Philip, 10, #1095 of 1795 🔗

And don’t forget – they have Ugly Patel too. She comes from a parallel dimension where everything is made of stupid, she can draw on the endless power of that dimension whenever she opens her mouth. A woman so stupid, infact, that whole University departments are struggling with the question of how on Earth she manages to get dressed and comb her hair every morning.
She is the the Liverpool of the Tory Party, if Liverpool was in Florida, the very bulwark of their boundless idiocy, and she is inspiration and muse to the whole cretinous shower of them.

362465 DanClarke, replying to DanClarke, 17, #1097 of 1795 🔗

It seems that whatever figures and proof are made known, the msm covid hysteria overrides everything else, the wild numbers are still terrifying so many people, even though they’ve lived with this for almost a year and most don’t even know anyone who’s had it, let alone anyone who’s died from it, its all msm quotes.

362467 ▶▶ Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, replying to DanClarke, 17, #1098 of 1795 🔗

I think Bruce Reynolds is right when he says that this thing has until the weather improves.

362480 ▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, 11, #1099 of 1795 🔗

Yep, that’s my view. Try keeping everyone inside once the weather improves in March/April.

362495 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 18, #1100 of 1795 🔗

I remember when we we had high hopes for the hot summer riot season.

362517 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to matt, 6, #1101 of 1795 🔗

Mask Mandate came in July.

362518 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Steeve, 8, #1102 of 1795 🔗

And still people didn’t take to the streets

362530 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to matt, 9, #1103 of 1795 🔗

Indeed. British people have let me down every time so far, and themselves.

362564 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to TJN, 7, #1104 of 1795 🔗

We are a nation of bedwetters. The British Lion roars no more.

362543 ▶▶▶▶▶ rockoman, replying to matt, 6, #1105 of 1795 🔗

That is waiting for ecnomic collapse.

The longer we have to wait the bigger it will be when it arrives.

362499 ▶▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 10, #1106 of 1795 🔗

And, of course, trying to keep everyone terrified because the ‘vaxx’ will free us all, so we MUST accept it.

(I don’t like putting sound effects in comments, but just this once: hahahahaha)

362533 ▶▶▶▶ Brian Bond, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 9, #1107 of 1795 🔗

There’ll be nothing left of the virus by April Given that the UK’s “infections” are, as of today, 23% down the other side of the Gompertz curve after the peak 10 days ago, there won’t be much left for the Fat Führer and rancid MSM to get hysterical about.

I also predict that the world’s numbers will be well down by then too – just watch the trends!

362559 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Brian Bond, 2, #1108 of 1795 🔗

I am sure another strain more deadly than the last one would have arrived by then.

362569 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Brian Bond, replying to Bella Donna, 5, #1109 of 1795 🔗

I’ve no doubt they will try and find one, but my glass is half full!

362635 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Alice, replying to Brian Bond, 2, #1110 of 1795 🔗

Also – Biden/Harris, saviours of America (if not the world).

362498 ▶▶ jb12, replying to DanClarke, 3, #1111 of 1795 🔗

Thinking Box reality.

362476 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #1112 of 1795 🔗


Daily Mail: Lord Sumption tells Stage 4 cancer sufferer her life is ‘less valuable’ than others.

362506 ▶▶ redbirdpete, replying to Tom Blackburn, 13, #1113 of 1795 🔗

He’s right, I’m afraid. But that’s life (or death) something the Covidians can’t cope with.

362521 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to Tom Blackburn, -9, #1114 of 1795 🔗

Funny, isn’t it? how someone’s life, spoken of by a Sumption, who isn’t suffering, is ”less valuable”. When the Sumptions are suffering then perhaps they’ll change their tune and recognise the enormity of what they’ve said.

Every life IS valuable – because no matter what age or state of health, every life has something to contribute to the rest even if it’s within the last few moments…. I think I speak from experience.

362567 ▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Banjones, 15, #1115 of 1795 🔗

Sumption is anti-lockdown. His point is that the person is at the end of their life, just as the majority of people dying with Covid are.

362592 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Banjones, 9, #1116 of 1795 🔗

Every life IS valuable – because no matter what age or state of health, every life has something to contribute to the rest even if it’s within the last few moments

Here, you are falling for precisely the fallacy employed to attack Sumption.

There is a category error based on the language used (the term “valuable”), here, but simply put, Sumption is correct and the woman in the interview and those who agree with her are wrong.

As a simple matter of fact, our entire approach to state financing of healthcare, as well as to the laws of compensation, is based on this truth. It could not be otherwise and it would be utterly disastrous both economically and morally to try to follow the other view that every life is of equal, basically infinite “value”.

362748 ▶▶▶ Bungle, replying to Banjones, 1, #1117 of 1795 🔗

You’re comments are wrong, in my view. If my 3-year old granddaughter and I both live to 76, she has many, many more months than me to live so, obviously her life is worth saving, not mine. Sumption is saving our democracy btw!

362531 ▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #1118 of 1795 🔗

I distinctly remember Emily Morgan on ITN news, early last year, telling people to ‘have that conversation’ with elderly relatives if they were taking up a hospital bed, and there were questions to be asked as to the continuation of treatment; – the gist of her argument was consider pulling the plug, in case they were taking up medical resources & hospital space from a young tolerant progressive.

362609 ▶▶ Smelly Melly, replying to Tom Blackburn, 7, #1119 of 1795 🔗

Life is 100% fatal and cannot be avoided. Sometimes shit happens and rough decisions have to be made and you have to accept reality and some lives are worth less than others.

A moral question. If you have 2 children both with an incurable condition and one can be saved. One child is severely disabled and the other “normal” which one do you save?

362913 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tom Blackburn, #1120 of 1795 🔗

He’s right but could have phrased it much more tactfully.
Definitely a faux pas on Sumption’s part.

What he said is true – and how the NHS (normally) operates, but surely he must have realised how his words would be turned against him?!

Anyone with stage 4 bowel cancer should be making the most of what bit of life they have left and either stop whining, or should rail against the cessation of cancer treatment in favour of covid.

362477 Banjones, replying to Banjones, 18, #1121 of 1795 🔗

Oh dear. I’ve realised now that nearly every one in my family, and that of my Best Beloved, is a sheep. Even the two who aren’t are very wary of breaking the ‘rules’ – because of the fear of fines, not the fear of the virus.

I’ve just had an email from my sis-in-law (not the sceptic one) to say she is looking forward to the vaccine because things will get back to normal. And this on the tail of one from a Canadian friend from a prairie town with hardly any deaths or hospital admissions, to say that they too look forward to the vaccine bringing normality, and are tired of ‘social distancing’ (isn’t it odd how these manipulative buzz words have travelled the world?)

Don’t these people read anything? Surely it’s been said clearly enough by those they’re in thrall to, that this vaccine WON’T bring a change in very much at all. Or am I just reading the wrong things?

They know by now I’m a sceptic, but they’re good folk and they don’t try to ”convert” me – probably because I’m looked on as the lovable eccentric. (I took over from my mother.) The word ”lovable” is the important one. I know there is no way I can convert any one of them – and they will leave me alone in my benighted state. So we’ll all rub along. But I DO fear for them, going like sheep to the slaughter… I would be so GLAD to be proved wrong.

362497 ▶▶ jb12, replying to Banjones, 8, #1122 of 1795 🔗

I was watching the South Park pandemic special and all of the ‘new normal’ words were in it. So used to hearing them it took me a while, but it eventually clicked that this is a US based program and there is no immediate reason why all the terms are uniform and universal amongst the English speaking nations.

362504 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to jb12, 9, #1123 of 1795 🔗

Interesting, isn’t it? And I noticed from the first how many of the ‘Newspeak’ words began with ‘S’. A strange coincidence, because I can’t think of any reason for that.

(Let’s say ‘Newspeak’ because that’s OUR word and not theirs.)

362562 ▶▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Banjones, 4, #1124 of 1795 🔗

I refuse to use their words; for me ‘social distancing’ is ‘standing apart because you’re a moron’.

362572 ▶▶▶▶ Prof Feargoeson, replying to Banjones, 1, #1125 of 1795 🔗

S for Schwab? I suppose we do it too mind: swervers,sadlidied, Shitty.

362513 ▶▶▶ jonathan Palmer, replying to jb12, 10, #1126 of 1795 🔗

I watched a tv report from America and a military officer used exactly the same words that Johnson used in one of the press conferences.
It shows the impetus is coming from a common source.

362560 ▶▶▶▶ jb12, replying to jonathan Palmer, 3, #1127 of 1795 🔗

Yes, that is my conclusion too.

362904 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to jb12, #1128 of 1795 🔗

DS spotted that last April!

362554 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Banjones, 9, #1129 of 1795 🔗

I’ve decided there is little point in trying to persuade people to see a different point of view, they are set in their opinion so let them get on with it. People just don’t believe that the government and their ‘vaccine’ would harm them. They honestly think things will return to normal once they have been jabbed. I reckon those of us who will refuse the ‘vaccine’ will be singled out as the reason why things cannot return to normal. So be it.

362502 Niborxof, replying to Niborxof, 7, #1130 of 1795 🔗

Something quite interesting (at least to me). I read haaretz.com and a for a while they tabulated the number of people vaccinated and number of positive tests and ‘deaths’ etc. Now it seems they have stopped.

362508 ▶▶ Niborxof, replying to Niborxof, 8, #1131 of 1795 🔗

Would be interesting to know re: Israeli numbers of hospital admissions/death over the next 2 weeks. The juice works then it should go to almost zero? Unless of course testing is faulty or juice without use

362510 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Niborxof, 6, #1132 of 1795 🔗

in the early days the Jerusalem Post used to do a body count split between Israelis and Palestinians. There were always more Israeli cases and deaths. That was dropped, probably because it was demoralising.

362505 bebophaircut, 3, #1133 of 1795 🔗

Mark Windows, Minute 39 Global Community Kill Grid. Inclusive Capitalism. U.N.’s Melissa Fleming said:

362509 Stephen Priest, 6, #1134 of 1795 🔗

The Rich Get Richer, And The Poor Pay – Moral Issues?

Gates – Zuckerberg – BBC – Banks etc

Godfrey Bloom Official

362523 NorthumbrianNomad, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 22, #1135 of 1795 🔗

There is something deeply sinister in the sudden, 180 degree turn to extremist zealotry performed by Christopher Snowdon and Dan Hodges. I don’t for a moment think either man is important enough to warrant special treatment from the elite, but I do think they must both have found something out. A question of future prospects, perhaps. How to keep your job.

Clearly they would rather see the nation destroyed, its cancer patients abandoned to die, its working class turned to an underclass and its children left uneducated than suffer any personal inconvenience.

362529 ▶▶ Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 8, #1136 of 1795 🔗

It could be just common or garden cowardice. Never underestimate the cowardice of people pleasers.

362541 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, 4, #1137 of 1795 🔗

And people with a bank balance to look to.

362538 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 2, #1138 of 1795 🔗

But ”elite”? Surely not!

362548 ▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 3, #1139 of 1795 🔗

Dunno about Snowdon, although a very sparse Wikipedia bio is often indicative of Spooky tendencies; but Hodges is a fully paid-up Eurocrat Securocrat Atlanticist useful idiot.

362580 ▶▶ Mark, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 3, #1140 of 1795 🔗

Not familiar with Snowdon, but Hodges I’ve despised since his shameful display shilling for the UK/US government lies on Syria. He’s an opportunist authority-worshipper and his position on an issue imo depends on what he thinks will win him establishment plaudits. He seems to have toyed with lockdown sceptcism when he thought the lockdown case was falling apart politically and then lurched back to the authoritarian position when he decided that side looks likelier to win after all (again, politically speaking).

Looking at the info easily available on Snowdon, it is particularly disappointing that so many of those ordinarily resistant to state interference seem to have been panicked into supporting it on this issue, where it is so disastrously harmful, to an almost unprecedented degree..

362586 ▶▶ isobar, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 7, #1141 of 1795 🔗

I can’t speak for Dan Hodges, but as for Chris Snowdon, I have known him personally for over 20 years. I simply cannot believe what he says bearing in mind his long-term highlighting and criticism of government and pressure group interference in our daily lives. Beggars belief!

362736 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to isobar, -9, #1142 of 1795 🔗

Snowdon happens to be right on most of the points he raises in his article. Even Toby Young acknowledges this.

The likes of Mike Yeadon have completely undermined the Lockdown sceptic case.

362853 ▶▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to isobar, 2, #1143 of 1795 🔗

He does not like legislation which means bananas need to be straight but he is cool on indefinite house arrest!

362638 ▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 2, #1144 of 1795 🔗

What happened to Velvet Glove Iron Fist? Turncoat!

362803 ▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 2, #1145 of 1795 🔗

There are always traitors in every war. They need to be reminded of the good sense they wrote in the early days. I suspect they just found it too difficult in their social and career circles to continue going against the establishment view. Yes its a form of cowardice and they will find they have no credibility in the future. Also remember the converts to any religion are always the greatest zealots.

362525 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 29, #1146 of 1795 🔗

Reading the article on mental health issues fills me with rage, and seeing that photo of Hancock grinning like a baboon makes me want to rip his head off!

Its like they are completely immune to the suffering they have/are causing, the unbelievable misery and cruelty of their actions they have imposed on our lives cannot be ignored and must be addressed. What on earth are these parliamentarians doing FFS?

362534 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to Bella Donna, 9, #1147 of 1795 🔗

Yes indeed. The two photos should be juxtapositioned so that everyone can see the difference between those ”Lords of Coercion” and the people who are actually at the end of their smug, self-satisfied, arrogant and ignorant posturings, and what they have to suffer.

These ignorant people, like Hancock (who, I’ve no doubt isn’t intelligent enough to be evil) should – and I hope WILL – be made to face the disaster they’ve brought down upon the heads of the innocent ones.

362561 ▶▶▶ Annie, replying to Banjones, 9, #1148 of 1795 🔗

You think evil requires intelligence?
There’s a very good study of Othello by Bradley, in which he refutes the idea that Iago is intelligent. He’s not. He is ambitious, envious, mean-spirited, vindictive, warped, sadistic, cowardly and downright evil. His machinations succeed only because his victim is grotesquely credulous.

Reminds me of … can’t quite get it.

362582 ▶▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to Annie, #1149 of 1795 🔗

Basically Othello is dumber, and also impulsive.

362588 ▶▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Annie, 1, #1150 of 1795 🔗

Thank you, Annie. I’ve got it into perspective now.
I suppose I was just trying to be – well, forgiving, I suppose.

362812 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Annie, #1151 of 1795 🔗

The psychological collapse of Othello is quite fascinating, and reminiscent of where we are as a nation now – torn apart with doubt and fear. There’s something of Iago in Ferguson, as I’ve posted on here before.

I think maybe with your long post yesterday you’d reached your The worst is not so long as we can say, ‘This is the worst …’ Edmund moment. From here on we climb out!

362536 Prof Feargoeson, replying to Prof Feargoeson, 22, #1152 of 1795 🔗

The Medical Dictatorship’s upping of the ante last week re enforced muzzling in supermarkets was a particularly nasty escalation of the war against the dissidents. They would love to starve us into submission. After months of untroubled muzzle free shopping at Aldi I got ordered out of the store today despite saying I was exempt. Ms Bossy Boots asked for my lanyard but I don’t have one as I am not disabled and refuse to wear a mask on moral, rational and ethical grounds. I told her I didn’t have to provide proof but she wasn’t having any of it. I therefore just put down my basket and walked out and will never shop there ever again.

Bit unfair as no doubt the other big supermarkets would have turned me out too but being ordered out like a naughty schoolboy is no way to treat a customer. A customer, unlike a client , can go elsewhere. Market and local corner shop while I work through my 8 week stash will have to do. The stash is from 23rd July so I’ve had a good run 😉

362574 ▶▶ l835, replying to Prof Feargoeson, 11, #1153 of 1795 🔗

The goon on Morrison’s door proffered me a box of masks, I just barged past. His look was priceless!

362593 ▶▶ Dodderydude, replying to Prof Feargoeson, 8, #1154 of 1795 🔗

I have as yet not been asked to justify my refusal to wear a mask. I, like many people, am essentially someone who shies away from confrontation even though I know I should be braver and bolder. So I’ve been thinking about what I would say if asked to explain why I have an exemption. I know I shouldn’t be asked and I know that I am not obliged to provide such information but I was thinking about what I would say in order not to lie but equally to have the upper hand. My response would be that “By wearing a mask I run a heightened risk of causing serious bronchial damage”. This is true, but those asking wouldn’t need to know that it is based on what experts have said on the internet and not on me having a specific condition making me more vulnerable than anyone else.

362626 ▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Dodderydude, 5, #1155 of 1795 🔗

Tell them you are allergic to looking like a fanny.

362671 ▶▶▶ Annie, replying to Dodderydude, 3, #1156 of 1795 🔗

Go to the laworfiction site. Print off their advice, with details of the discrimination legislation. Make the buggers sign a form, available from the same website, declaring that they are denying you a service and illegally insisting that you disclose a hidden disability. Remind them that the maximum compensation payable is £9000.

362692 ▶▶▶ Richy_m_99, replying to Dodderydude, 3, #1157 of 1795 🔗

My response would be that “By wearing a mask I run a heightened risk of causing serious bronchial damage”.

Make your reply much shorter. Just say “Bronchial damage” and leave it like that. It is not for them to know whether it is existing or potential.

362611 ▶▶ Quernus, replying to Prof Feargoeson, 8, #1158 of 1795 🔗

Please please please send a strongly worded letter of complaint to the manager of any store that adopts this approach. A few template letters have been shared here, and I’ve got a copy if you need it. One of Tesco’s managers has already sent a letter of apology to one LS reader – we need to keep complaining loudly and often until they realise what the law actually says!

362623 ▶▶▶ Alice, replying to Quernus, 4, #1159 of 1795 🔗

Yes, and threaten them with a court case as well!

362672 ▶▶▶▶ Prof Feargoeson, replying to Alice, 2, #1160 of 1795 🔗

I’d feel a bit of a fraud taking it that far tbh not being genuinely unable to wear a mask. I actually found it harder to argue against the store Nazi because of the heavy duty mask she was wearing. Couldn’t stand to look at her in it.

362665 ▶▶▶ Prof Feargoeson, replying to Quernus, 4, #1161 of 1795 🔗

I will do just to yank their chain.

362669 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Quernus, 3, #1162 of 1795 🔗

In addition, reference the £7k settlement mentioned on this site a few days ago.

362694 ▶▶▶ Richy_m_99, replying to Quernus, #1163 of 1795 🔗

If I ever found myself in need of making a letter of complaint in such circumstances, I would also be demanding that, since the penalty for me fialing to comply with the law would have been £200, (or £60 in Wales), it is only fair that they receive a similar penalty for their failure to comply with the law. I would be demanding as compensation, the same amount in store vouchers to avoid further action and a claim for discrimination from being made. (Which is exactly what a PCN offers in reality, a chance to avoid court).

That might make them think twice, a) because it gives them the impression that they can recover your customer and 2) it still gets them in the pocket.

362659 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Prof Feargoeson, 2, #1164 of 1795 🔗

If you’re thinking of taking punitive retaliatory action, remember to ensure you have a watertight alibi!

362661 ▶▶▶ Prof Feargoeson, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1165 of 1795 🔗

Might wear a mask for that 🙂

362662 ▶▶ Annie, replying to Prof Feargoeson, 1, #1166 of 1795 🔗

Markets and corner shops provide better gnosh than supermarkets and don’t come out any more expensive, given that impulse buys are less likely – and you get treated like a human being.

363096 ▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Annie, 1, #1167 of 1795 🔗

Not at my former local shop – I was told to ‘hurry up, before someone comes in’. Unfortunately, I live in an area with pretty much 100 per cent compliance to every single contradictory rule going.

362789 ▶▶ R G, replying to Prof Feargoeson, 2, #1168 of 1795 🔗

I had my first run-in this week in my local Sainsburys, funnily enough the first time I’ve gone in with my face covered because of the mask or starve thing. My scarf slipped at the checkout and within 10 seconds I had a 20-stone goon tapping me on the shoulder and reminding me of the rules. He must have come within half a foot of my face because I could smell his breath through his mask. I should have pulled him up on it but such is the spirit d’escalier; all I could manage was a “slipped off my nose, mate “. It’s getting nasty out there.

362882 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Prof Feargoeson, 1, #1169 of 1795 🔗

Very disappointing. Hopefully she’s a one-off jobsworth.

You need to write to head office because it’s not in Aldi’s guidelines. Your mini-Hitler needs some proper training.

Aldi doesn’t have a viable click&collect or an online fresh groceries delivery. You might like to point that out in your complaint………..

362537 bebophaircut, replying to bebophaircut, 5, #1170 of 1795 🔗

Just at the end of Global Community Kill Grid, minute 53, Mark Windows says that the U.K. government doesn’t expect the vaccine to be thoroughly tested and approved before January 2023!

362579 ▶▶ Waldorf, replying to bebophaircut, 3, #1171 of 1795 🔗

That is more like the time frame you would expect for something like a vaccine.

362654 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to bebophaircut, 2, #1172 of 1795 🔗

That’s the date given on the American CDC site too.

362660 ▶▶ Annie, replying to bebophaircut, 2, #1173 of 1795 🔗

BUT IT (they?) have/ has been approved, surely?
Or are they pumping people full of an unapproved vaccine?

362673 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Annie, 1, #1174 of 1795 🔗

IIRC they have received emergency approval rather than being fully licensed. This is why the yellow card system has been made more robust as the MHRA are expecting a large number of adverse events.

362663 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to bebophaircut, 2, #1175 of 1795 🔗

Pfizer trials end 27 Jan 2023. Astra trials end Feb 2023.
https://in-this-together.com/vaccine-trials/ which is drawn from source data.

362539 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 14, #1176 of 1795 🔗

Italians leading the way on how to end lockdowns:


Well, the Italian’s have just confirmed it! This madness only ends when the masses resist

[Short video with tweet]

362566 ▶▶ JHUNTZ, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #1177 of 1795 🔗

Thats incredible i’m so jelous

362653 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to JHUNTZ, 1, #1178 of 1795 🔗

Me too, tbh.

362666 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #1179 of 1795 🔗

We had a couple of the best pizza’s ever in the square in Cienna in mid summer once, washed down with a fantastic bottle of red.
That was nice.

362863 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nick Rose, #1180 of 1795 🔗

failed pic

362545 crimsonpirate, 8, #1181 of 1795 🔗
362546 Will, replying to Will, 4, #1182 of 1795 🔗

Has anyone seen anything regarding vaccines and New Zealand? Given the country has the lowest natural immunity in the world it will be fascinating to see how effective the vaccines are.

362604 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to Will, 4, #1183 of 1795 🔗

Found this – general info about their vaccination plan.

‘There are still many unknowns’: experts on the big NZ vaccine plan | The Spinoff

362652 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Steeve, 4, #1184 of 1795 🔗

Waiting to see how many of us get killed off “adverse reactions”.

362549 Ewan Duffy, 6, #1185 of 1795 🔗


A rare dose of intelligence from an Irish politician (advocating Vitamin D to be given to the public). Will be sending him an email thanking him for speaking up.

362551 DanClarke, replying to DanClarke, 4, #1186 of 1795 🔗

Wonder how many evil b’s are manipulating this, we know the ones who are following orders

362649 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to DanClarke, 1, #1187 of 1795 🔗

Certainly a lot of agendas being pushed.

362552 bebophaircut, 5, #1188 of 1795 🔗

I think that we should copy and paste communiqués from the globalists on Twitter and Facebook, rather than denounce these lies and face being cancelled. Accumulate as many friends as possible and disseminate the globalists statements for all to see, and especially to those who were not aware of their plans. Take screenshots, or save your tweets and such. If you get banned for exposing the documented agendas of the globalists we should take them to court.

362557 watashi, replying to watashi, 7, #1189 of 1795 🔗

Has this been posted already?
(Professor Dolores Cahill talking about the deaths she expects the vaccine to cause)

362647 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to watashi, 3, #1190 of 1795 🔗

Probably, but a repost does no harm :o))

362720 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to watashi, 2, #1191 of 1795 🔗

We are seeing deaths in a certain cohort right now, however Cahill makes the case for a real possibility that ADE becomes widespread and later in the year some of the other vaccinated cohorts could be dying when encountering the wild virus.

362576 Ewan Duffy, replying to Ewan Duffy, 7, #1192 of 1795 🔗


Irish Independent:
“Health staff who are administering the Covid-19 vaccine in long-term care settings across the country have been told it is not appropriate to give it to residents whose duration of life may be shorter than the length of time it will take for the jab to work.”

Rest of the article at the link above.

362584 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Ewan Duffy, 15, #1193 of 1795 🔗

I find it incredible that people so close to end of life would be given a vaccine (any vaccine) in the first place!

362610 ▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to godowneasy, 5, #1194 of 1795 🔗

I have said before that the vaccine might be what pushes them through the door to the Choir Invisible. Mind you, perhaps that is why they receive it…

362606 ▶▶ Alan P, replying to Ewan Duffy, 4, #1195 of 1795 🔗

Quick enough to tag their death as “covid” when it suits them. Not so keen post vaccine!

362616 ▶▶ jb12, replying to Ewan Duffy, 6, #1196 of 1795 🔗

They are lunatics. I was reading the VAERS and they are giving the vaccine to frail, old people recovering from Covid who subsequently died. It is a travesty.

362682 ▶▶▶ Richy_m_99, replying to jb12, 1, #1197 of 1795 🔗

“We will act to reduce the burden of the cost of social care of the elderly in this country”

362632 ▶▶ JHUNTZ, replying to Ewan Duffy, 3, #1198 of 1795 🔗

These are the very people we locked down for ffs. If we’re not vaccinating 82 year olds and above. What was the point?

362656 ▶▶ Annie, replying to Ewan Duffy, 1, #1199 of 1795 🔗

‘the jab to work’?
What on earth do they mean by ‘work’ here?

362712 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Ewan Duffy, 1, #1200 of 1795 🔗

Does that advice still seem incredibly vague?

What a complete clusterf**k. Are doctors now on the line to decide where the boundary is for the vaccine based on zero pre approval trial data but these ongoing phase four trials? How are the making that decision exactly?

If my elderly mother has one lung, constantly on medication for breathing issues but has generally good upward mobility and is self sufficient? Does she take it according to this advice? What other factors are in play here? F**k all I’d say.

362837 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ewan Duffy, #1201 of 1795 🔗

Interesting because it honestly admits that these people have but a few weeks to live in the first place.
Is the “If it saves one life!” argument being dropped?

362581 Andrea Salford, replying to Andrea Salford, 10, #1202 of 1795 🔗

Given that the term lockdown sceptics is now conflated with ‘COVID denier’ ‘anti-Vaxers’ ‘conspiracy theorists’ and that battling that is both exhausting and pointless, is there an argument to change the name of the website? I know there are wobblers and fence sitters amongst my family and friends who would probably be swayed by the articles, facts and data on this site but I know they will be nervous/turn off when they see sceptic in the link. Don’t get me wrong I recognise the importance of scepticism is what brings us here, I’m just thinking how best to promote our cause. Clearly in setting up the site Toby et al could have had no idea how weaponised the label sceptics would become. As sceptics we are truth seekers so how about ‘Lockdown Truth’ or ‘Lockdown Facts’? or ‘Lockdown News’?

362585 ▶▶ popo says, replying to Andrea Salford, 13, #1203 of 1795 🔗

What exactly is an ‘anti-vaxxer’? What exactly is a ‘conspiracy theorist’? Aren’t these just terms which opponents (usually paid opponents) come up with? So ‘Lockdown Sceptic’ is an apologetic catch all term and needs no fear of artificial CONflation by others. Don’t give them your time or energy by fretting about it.

362597 ▶▶▶ Andrea Salford, replying to popo says, 6, #1204 of 1795 🔗

They are terms that have been weaponised so that the sheeple fear us; fear going down the rabbit hole if they listen to us. The suggestion is a rebrand to better sell our message.

362589 ▶▶ Jo, replying to Andrea Salford, 19, #1205 of 1795 🔗

I think the name should remain the same. If people want to use scepticism as a form of abuse, let them. In the years to come and analysis will show just how stupid that is.
I am pleased to be sceptical, to question and research rather than believe anything that people and organisations I don’t trust tell me.

362600 ▶▶▶ Dermot McClatchey, replying to Jo, 3, #1206 of 1795 🔗


362612 ▶▶▶ Andrea Salford, replying to Jo, 3, #1207 of 1795 🔗

As stated in the original post I recognise the importance of being sceptical but we are daily preaching to the converted; one has to already identify as a sceptic to be here, whereas if we want to swell our ranks and recruit more sceptics we need to get them to engage with our message – the fabulous research and facts/data on this site. There’s an argument that it’s wasted on us in that we’re here already, already sceptics. How do we convert the middle 50%?

362801 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Andrea Salford, #1208 of 1795 🔗

Share stuff wherever else you can!

362594 ▶▶ rockoman, replying to Andrea Salford, 2, #1209 of 1795 🔗

Any possible title can be twisted.

362607 ▶▶ jos, replying to Andrea Salford, 4, #1210 of 1795 🔗

They will weaponise whatever term you use in order to dehumanise you – that’s how tyranny works

362628 ▶▶▶ Andrea Salford, replying to jos, 2, #1211 of 1795 🔗

‘They’ I don’t give two hoots for, but we could get more engagement from the nervous sheeple and fence sitters if we weren’t identified with the negatives that are now associated with the word ‘sceptics’ (however proud I/we are of that). Our message is far more important than that and we need to reach more people.

362615 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Andrea Salford, 17, #1212 of 1795 🔗

The basic divide is those who are in favour of lockdowns and those who are agin them. Both sides will obviously have a very wide range of views within that divide. Because those pushing vaccination are in the fascist pro-lockdown camp, it’s hardly surprising that anti-vaxxers are in ours. Because Herr Doktor “Dr” Bill Gates pushes vaccines and controls, it’s hardly surprising that “Gates wants to use nanochips to control us” conspiracists are in our camp. And so on.

In fine, we’re a broad church. I don’t see eye-to-eye with everybody, a feeling that is obviously reciprocated and that should surprise nobody either. Many of us have strong views and are disinclined to compromise, so there are bound to be sparks sometimes.

But if we have a collection of misfits and oddballs, as well as more mainstream people (I’ll let you fill in who fits where, it will vary depending on pov), the other lot have a gang of crypto-Communists, neo-Fascists, abusers, criminals, inciters, monomaniacs, megalomaniacs, creeps, psychotics, murderers and cowards at the helm.

I know which side I would rather be on.

362634 ▶▶▶ DanClarke, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #1213 of 1795 🔗

The pro lockdown(ers) seem to be mainly those who think if we lockdown things will get back to ‘normal’ quicker, we need them to see that compliance is our enemy and that normal will never return if we accept the lies and false narrative.

362641 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to DanClarke, #1214 of 1795 🔗

True. The more they comply, the worse it gets. Surely they can’t all be lost? lol

362639 ▶▶▶ Andrea Salford, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1215 of 1795 🔗

There is a middle group we need to capture, they only know what they are told by BBC/MSM/government briefings. There is no balance, they could be swayed by the truth here. How do we get them here? They are not sceptics (yet) but need a nudge.

362640 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Andrea Salford, 1, #1216 of 1795 🔗

All we can do is keep plugging away. But those now suspect something isn’t right…

362650 ▶▶▶▶ JHUNTZ, replying to Andrea Salford, 4, #1217 of 1795 🔗

That’s my family they watch the news every night. The current fear porn is hard to beat.

362630 ▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to Andrea Salford, #1218 of 1795 🔗

How about News of the World?

362631 ▶▶▶ bebophaircut, replying to bebophaircut, #1219 of 1795 🔗

Heretics Anonymous.

362642 ▶▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to bebophaircut, #1220 of 1795 🔗

“Auto da fés R us’

362679 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Andrea Salford, 1, #1221 of 1795 🔗

If the name puts people off then they have issues. However, I do know people like that. Instead, I may take the argument in a lockdown sceptics piece and point to the source data it’s using. If they are struggling to get over their own bias. At the moment though, I am actually giving up on a lot of more people I am able to convince on the sceptics case. It’s all irrational shouting matches due to to propaganda people are bombarded with. They are not ready to change

362798 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Andrea Salford, 3, #1222 of 1795 🔗

I often want to share the exclusive articles on fb but know the Lockdown Sceptics banner will instantly cause them to be banned.

362583 Monty Greene, replying to Monty Greene, 16, #1223 of 1795 🔗

Lockdowns are forever
For the vaccine won’t release me
They’ll continue to police me
They won’t give back your rights
As more variants delight to hurt me:

Lockdowns are forever
Till we get to zero covid
For the skeptics are all rabid,
Ban them cancel them now
For we shouldn’t allow them to divert me:
I don’t need life
For what good will life do me?
SAGEs never lie to me
For when life’s gone
They’ll witter on.

Lockdowns are forever
No more maskless social sessions:
You’ll love life without possessions:
Freedom’s bad for your health
So just give up your wealth
To an Amazon to slave for:
I don’t need life
For what good will life do me?
I’ll let technocrats use me
For when life’s gone
They’ll bluster on
Lockdowns are forever, forever, forever
Lockdowns are forever, forever, forever
Forever and ever

362678 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Monty Greene, 2, #1224 of 1795 🔗

Really good that! It fits if you sing it like Burley Chassis

362595 nocheesegromit, replying to nocheesegromit, 39, #1225 of 1795 🔗

Went out on a bike ride in York earlier today – it was the busiest I’d ever seen this particular route and like night and day compared to last March despite the cold and the flooding we have here. Signs forbidding sitting on the seats on the bridge completely ignored and quite a few people who didn’t look like they were from the same household (particularly teenagers). Definitely seems to be pattern all over the country looking at the comments today!

362605 ▶▶ Luckyharry69, replying to nocheesegromit, 3, #1226 of 1795 🔗

whats a bike?

362608 ▶▶ Janette, replying to nocheesegromit, 7, #1227 of 1795 🔗

That’s great. It makes you feel human again!

362613 ▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to Janette, 3, #1228 of 1795 🔗

Feeling human? What is that? Does it mean sacrificing a goat? To the great god Covid?

362664 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to nocheesegromit, 8, #1229 of 1795 🔗

Indeed, I think that despite all the opinion polls, the real deal is with what people are doing?
Today for the first time in many weeks the reported number of ‘covid’ patients in English NHS hospitals went down by 439, from 33362 yesterday to 32923 today.
Even the ludicrous deaths within 28 days figure went down today.
It’s a pinprick of light at the end of a very long tunnel but at least today the data did not get any worse and the Great British Public, woke up to an early spring day, decided, quite rightly, that as far as covid is concerned ‘ain’t nothing shaking but the leaves on the trees’ and headed for the parks and the beaches.

362675 ▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #1230 of 1795 🔗

Interesting how hardly any of them are wearing masks. I am in a country where they are compulsory outdoors.

362680 ▶▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Waldorf, 4, #1231 of 1795 🔗

That really is bonkers

362915 ▶▶▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to arfurmo, 1, #1232 of 1795 🔗

“The Greek Democracy”. You also have to notify the police you are going out. Sometimes I “forget” that bit…

362617 Silke David, replying to Silke David, 18, #1233 of 1795 🔗

Went for a late walk: a single young man closing up the coffee shop. wearing a mouthnosecovering. I shouted through the glass, you are alone, take the fc off! He was like, ah, I am used to it, it is fine.
I replied you’re at higher risk of developing dementia. which of course totally went over his head.
Costa had a poster in their window with “rules for delivery people”.
The language could not have been more draconian, luckily I carry a permanent marker with me these days and as it was stuck to the outside of the shop I was able to write my comment onto it to get a life and be more polite.

362700 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to Silke David, 2, #1234 of 1795 🔗

That’s probably the most depressing thing of all. Not that people follow the ‘rules’ but that they follow them when there is no need to, and they can just be themselves.

362621 isobar, replying to isobar, 17, #1235 of 1795 🔗

I agree. In the early days I think that Lockdown Sceptics was entirely appropriate and great kudos to Toby to setting the site up. However now that the collateral damage to lockdowns is being more and more evident every day, we should be more assertive and rebrand as ‘Lockdowns cost lives’ with the sub titles of ‘They also trash the economy’, ‘Devastate the future for our Children’ and, finally, ‘Never again’

We have sadly lost the battle to prevent the current Lockdown, but that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t collect and collate the evidence to apply maximum pressure by whatever means are at our disposal to prevent another one. Hence ‘Never again’

362707 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to isobar, 10, #1236 of 1795 🔗

What is REALLY angering me at the moment are those MPs who are bleating about ”we have to find a way out” or ”we need to save the economy” whilst being the ones who continually voted for these deeply damaging policies. (Note, Sir John Redwood.)
They are utterly disgraceful.

362625 bebophaircut, replying to bebophaircut, 2, #1237 of 1795 🔗

Governments, S.A.G.E., Media, Hive Mind Followers, Globalists. All paranoid schizophrenics?
Anybody watch ‘Seven Days in May’ yet?

362714 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to bebophaircut, #1238 of 1795 🔗

Not yet. About to.

362627 kate, 4, #1239 of 1795 🔗

Very well constructed film by James Corbett explaining the MRNA “vaccines,” how they work, and what the eventual outcome of this “pandemic” is likely to be if we all trust and comply.

Sadly I think very many will suffer in this unprecedented medical experiment. Or is it genocide?

From Kennedy’s Children’s Health Defence


362629 guy153, 14, #1240 of 1795 🔗

Viruses are killed by T cells. That is what T cells are for. What the hell do they think T cells are for? Antibodies are just markers.

This isn’t strictly accurate. There are many different kinds of T-cells. One of these is the “killer T-cell” whose job is to kill entire cells (because they’re infected with viruses, for example, and also if they are cancerous).

A killer T-cell is basically a death star that blows up the whole cell. It’s about the size of a cell, huge compared to a virus.

An antibody is a tiny protein, much smaller than a virus, that sticks to it. The better ones are “neutralizing” (actually disable the virus). But they all “opsonize” which is to say they flag the virus to tell other immune cells to eat it.

But those other cells aren’t T-cells they’re things like macrophages.

I don’t know but my suspicion is that most of the work of clearing viruses is done by antibodies (but not necessarily the ones the tests find). Because they are so tiny a plasma cell can produce 2000 of them per second. But a killer T cell takes a few hours to clone. You wouldn’t use a death star just to kill a couple of wookies.

The various tests for T-cells show that more people have been exposed to SARS2 than the antibody tests. But it doesn’t imply that they didn’t use antibodies to clear the virus. They all found “helper” T-cells as well as killer T-cells and the job of helper T-cells is to assist in the process of making antibodies.

So it’s not T-cells vs antibodies. But the antibody tests do undercount who had Covid because in order to be as specific as possible they look for high titres of very specific antibodies.

362633 kate, 8, #1241 of 1795 🔗

Another extremely well made film explaining the pandemic, the New Normal, and the political goals of the New World Order.

Very clear, responsible, and informed. Highly recommended. Not too long.

“It is time for humanity to reclaim itself from this draconian tyranny”


362636 Cheshirecatslave, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 27, #1242 of 1795 🔗

I’ve a friend who seemed pretty sceptical, was willing to visit despite the lockdowns and was wary of the vaccines. Last week she said she’d decided to be vaccinated, fair enough, it’s her choice and I’m waiting for more evidence before I decide. She said she’d visit tomorrow and once the weather improved we could go for a walk. Today she texted and said she wasn’t coming until after I’d been vaccinated as she wanted to protect me. Surely I should be able to decide for myself what risks I wish to take or avoid? I wonder what has made her change her attitude so drastically? I can only surmise the relentless media narrative. I’ve always had health problems and had to calculate the risks of infections.

362644 ▶▶ DanClarke, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 16, #1243 of 1795 🔗

Covid has become the be all and end all, all decisions are decided by Covid. We’ve lost our sense of reason

363229 ▶▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to DanClarke, #1244 of 1795 🔗

Sadly true.

362658 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 10, #1245 of 1795 🔗

—— “as she wanted to protect me” ——-

What? This person is deluded.

363227 ▶▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to Victoria, #1246 of 1795 🔗

She was so sensible before, cautious but believing we have to keep living.

362677 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 11, #1247 of 1795 🔗

Tell her that you’ve consulted your diary and never works for you .

362686 ▶▶ Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 3, #1248 of 1795 🔗

Protect you from what? Surely she knows that the ‘vaccine’ has no infectious agents in it as it is a gene therapy treatment which directly reprograms your cells to produce spike proteins found the surface of the virus (and also the plecenta of a developing foetus) so that your immune system learns to attack those protiens?

362691 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 4, #1249 of 1795 🔗

If she has been vaccinated, why would she pass on the illness to you and if the “vaccine” does not confer immunity, what exactly was the point in her getting it?

363223 ▶▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to Ewan Duffy, #1250 of 1795 🔗


362733 ▶▶ Suzyv, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 4, #1251 of 1795 🔗

Did she want to protect you in case of viral shedding? Re oxford one I think. I somehow doubt this and I can see what she meant. You should have pointed out that it makes no difference at all because the trials were not designed to prevent anyone catching or transmitting anything so neither of you are protected.

363222 ▶▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to Suzyv, #1252 of 1795 🔗

I think she fears she’ll give me the virus without a vaccine to protect both of us from the worse symptoms. She works every day with very vulnerable people.

362668 ▶▶ isobar, replying to JHUNTZ, 2, #1254 of 1795 🔗

Yes, just the kind thing I had in mind. It’s fragmented in the MSM and probably deliberately so. Just needs packaging together and promoted ruthlessly!

362645 isobar, replying to isobar, 13, #1255 of 1795 🔗

Would also be good if we had a revolving ticker at the top of the website (if that could be done) reminding readers and informing visitors of excess deaths at home, missed cancer screenings, bankruptcies, redundancies, school days missed etc.

362655 ▶▶ DanClarke, replying to isobar, 1, #1256 of 1795 🔗

Yes, it how the msm does it, and people notice it.

362670 ▶▶▶ isobar, replying to DanClarke, #1257 of 1795 🔗

Absolutely, see my reply to Jhuntz below!

362657 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to isobar, 3, #1258 of 1795 🔗

That would be very good. There is a feed I saw a while ago with how much money the LD is costing, in real time….ding 1 mil ding 2 mil ding 3 mil

362674 ▶▶▶ isobar, replying to Two-Six, 4, #1259 of 1795 🔗

Yes, excellent suggestion, a cost ticket might focus minds on the immense debt that we are building up that our children and probably their children will have to pay off!

362711 ▶▶▶▶ Paulus, replying to isobar, 5, #1260 of 1795 🔗

something like this

362780 ▶▶▶▶▶ isobar, replying to Paulus, 1, #1261 of 1795 🔗

Absolutely! Great post!

363034 ▶▶ CGL, replying to isobar, #1262 of 1795 🔗

That is a really excellent idea – it would be a brilliant (well not really brilliant I suppose!) summary and a pure hit of where it’s actually hurting and how much it’s hurting.

362646 guy153, replying to guy153, 12, #1263 of 1795 🔗

Apologies if this has been posted but this is very interesting and may come in useful:


Down in that thread Northern Lass has posted this link to a government document:


Clarifying the rules on face coverings. Basically the shop can ask you nicely and if you say you are not able to wear one or you are exempt then they should politely leave you alone. We all knew this but rather than carrying a lanyard around it might be more productive to produce this actual document.

362685 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to guy153, 9, #1264 of 1795 🔗

And yet, the big supermarkets are still claiming you have to say you are ‘ medically exempt’ which is not true. They also, erroneously as it turns out, are claiming that the rules have changed. I have gone back to Tesco to point this out and await their response. I also sent them a copy of the article posted yesterday re. the compensation paid to someone who was denied services due to their exemption.

362667 DanClarke, replying to DanClarke, 3, #1265 of 1795 🔗

Who are the 1% who are demolishing the world and recruiting traitors to do their work?

362919 ▶▶ Janette, replying to DanClarke, 1, #1266 of 1795 🔗

Bill Gates and Co

362676 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 4, #1267 of 1795 🔗

The only way we will ever get the various reforms required in this country will be through the establishment of new political parties and a political breakthrough by those parties.

That cannot happen in a sclerotic first past the post political system.

New parties can only thrive via a system of proportional representation (PR).

The only party offering PR is the Liberal Democrats.

I do not agree with about 80% of the Liberal Democrat manifesto but I will now vote Liberal Democrat with the intention that they will once again form part of a coalition contingent on another vote for PR.

At the next referendum on PR, I will vote for PR.

Once this country has a PR electoral system, I will then be able to vote for a party that offers reform to the National Health Service, reform of state education, sweeping constitutional reform including a written constitution, root and branch reform of the civil service, disestablishment of the state broadcaster, free English breakfasts and chocolate for all……..

You know that is a winning manifesto, if only for the last two items…..

362690 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Tim Bidie, 2, #1268 of 1795 🔗

Whilst I can understand the desire for PR (speaking from Ireland where PR was gifted to us almost 100 years ago to protect the British minority upon establishment of the Free State), all political parties here in Ireland support lockdowns.

362706 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Tim Bidie, #1269 of 1795 🔗

It’s certainly a long shot!

I actually agree with more of the LD policies than those of any of the other parties but the violence with which I disagree with one or two of them tends to balance things out.

I voted against PR in that referendum we had about it that everyone has forgotten but might vote for it if given the chance again.

The risk I think is you just end up with the same elite permanently in power and all an election does is rearrange a few backbenchers. Mutti has been in power almost as long as Putin. If you didn’t like Mutti I can see this would be a problem.

362746 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #1270 of 1795 🔗

Never been a fan of PR as a suppose solution to our problems, because our problem isn’t with our political parties per se, but rather with our political and social elites, and the ideologies that are dominant amongst them. The solution is “populism” in its various forms, but while PR might help populist parties to arise and get so far, it just results in the elites joining forces to shut them out anyway.

In a PR system an “excluded from respectable” party needs to get over 50% of the vote, by and large, to achieve anything much. In the UK system it’s near impossible to replace an existing establishment party, but it’s much easier to influence their policies. UKIP/Brexit party never got above 12% in any General Election, but put the fear of God into the “Conservative” Party by threatening to deliver seats to their establishment rivals.

362769 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Tim Bidie, #1271 of 1795 🔗

We had a referendum on proportional representation (it was the price the Liberal Democrats exacted from the Conservatives after the 2010 election) and the people rejected it.

362958 ▶▶▶ Tom in Scotland, replying to Steve Hayes, #1272 of 1795 🔗

No, the 2011 referendum did not offer proportional representation, it offered the alternative vote, which is a majoritarian system, closely related to first-past-the-post. AV is used in Australia and Papua New Guinea and that’s it (Fiji had it but has moved to PR). I would not recommend AV under any circumstances.

There are many forms of PR and we have two of them here in Scotland: the mixed-member proportional (MMP) system, similar to what Germany and New Zealand have, and the single transferable vote (STV), as in Ireland and Malta. MMP elects the Scottish Parliament and STV elects local councils. No system is perfect but either one of these – or a list PR system as used in most of Europe – would be preferable to what we use now for the House of Commons, in my opinion (as a politics lecturer who has done a lot of research into electoral systems).

I’m not holding my breath, however. It’s very unlikely that we will see a change at Westminster. The Lib Dems are not to be trusted, as they shifted from supporting PR to advocating AV in the 2011 referendum. AV is not proportional. The Lib Dems are not in any position to be advocating any kind of reform at this point, anyway.

While I think electoral systems matter, I would not give them too much credit for making a big difference in your politics overall.

362966 ▶▶ Tom in Scotland, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #1273 of 1795 🔗

While I strongly support PR, I would not give an electoral system too much credit for a type of policy outcome. See my comment under Steve Hays.

We have PR in Scotland. I certainly prefer it to majoritarian systems, but it’s not going to solve all of your problems.

Don’t trust the Lib Dems. They failed us on PR before – the 2011 referendum did NOT offer PR, it offered the alternative vote, a non-proportional, majoritarian system. It was a con.

362681 Derek Toyne, replying to Derek Toyne, 19, #1274 of 1795 🔗

I’ve just read Christopher Snowdons article claiming that scepticism of lockdown is all about being a crank. He’s main thrust is that we got it wrong by claiming the pandemic would be over by summer time. We didn’t we said it would end if they was no second/mutant virus which is based on the fact that corona viruses usually fizzle out after a few months. When we criticise lockdown we criticise because yes it will reduce infections in the short-term but once things open up it will come back. And this is what’s happened, it’s as if the lockdown as shifted infections and deaths into the future giving the illusion that lockdown works. This is why as a sceptic I disagree that lockdown works because in the long term lockdown will cause more problems for no gain. Lastly why doesn’t people like Christopher Snowdon ask himself why does he think lockdown which as been tried three times the only way?

362696 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Derek Toyne, 9, #1275 of 1795 🔗

The seasonality we’ve observed is actually very good evidence that the virus is endemic.

If it had really been near-eradicated by NPIs which is the (absolutely ridiculous) claim then it would bounce back at any time time of year including in the middle of summer the minute you let your guard down or someone didn’t install the T&T app.

Sure it would be slightly more likely to do that in winter. But 93% susceptible is a lot of dry wood at any time of year, and plenty of places had substantial summer epidemics. We didn’t in the UK because we already had population immunity.

I think some of these people think that if you repeat something often and indignantly enough it makes it true.

362716 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to guy153, 4, #1276 of 1795 🔗

Doesn’t immunity mean something which is not binary?

Or is it a binary thing?

I think if you get exposed to a virus (what every they actually are, I don’t think this is actually that clear) and you don’t get any symptoms you are immune.

If you get any symptoms, does that equal not immune? Or If you get “exposed” to a “pathogen” and you get symptoms but they are mild and inconsequential and you get better are you still immune?

Even if you get uncomfortable symptoms, or even life threatening symptoms but you get better is it that you are still immune because you don’t die?

Immunity is more of a grey scale kind of thing isn’t it? We all MUST have it because we aren’t dead right?

363210 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1277 of 1795 🔗

Yes it’s a grey scale. A very mild infection might be dealt with purely by innate immunity which would leave you with no immune memory.

But the majority of infections do which is why epidemics follow the curves they do– population immunity builds rapidly as the virus is spread near-exponentially.

Most symptoms like fever etc. arise from the innate immune system. But if an infection is bad enough to result in symptoms you’re probably going to have some adaptive immunity as well.

If you are infected very mildly (because it’s a reinfection perhaps, or you had some cross-immunity, or one dose of a vaccine) you still might be able to infect other people, but only with great difficulty.

What matters is just the averages. Unless you are going for “Zero Covid” which some politicians don’t realize is effectively infinitely more difficult than just going for “Not Much Covid”.

If you just do nothing at all you end up with “Not Much Covid” very quickly because nature just takes its course. You can vaccinate and that will reduce severe illness and death but it won’t get you to herd immunity any quicker. It’s pretty hard to compete with something that’s spreading exponentially.

But to end up with “Zero Covid” you would have to worry about all those tiny chances of asymptomatic spread, reinfections, less than perfect vaccine efficiency, etc.. Because if you miss just a few cases you will be right back at endemic equilibrium in about a month, probably before you even noticed.

362734 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Derek Toyne, 5, #1278 of 1795 🔗

In fact as yet we don’t know if we really do have a second wave. What we have is massive testing which has never been done for any other virus. What would we find if we did this for flu every winter? We don’t know as we have never done it.

We have never tested every inpatient in every hospital once a week or more for flu as we are doing for COVID so again we don’t know what we would find in winter. We have some excess death running through autumn winter but not the huge spike last spring. We don’t know what the excess death is yet for each week this coming year. There is a lot yet to be seen and looked at yet.

Last spring we did not do mass testing because we didn’t have tests set up but what would we have found if we had tested anyone with symptoms from say November 2019 to May 2020? We still have a lot of unknowns.

362742 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Derek Toyne, 8, #1279 of 1795 🔗

Henegen was always saying this is endemic. Shield vulnerable get on with our lives.

Stop testing too and we can plan our way out today.

362775 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #1280 of 1795 🔗

Testdemic: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases

The graph says it all.

362766 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress 2021, replying to Derek Toyne, 11, #1281 of 1795 🔗

The pandemic was over in April/May. The virus is now endemic, and it is therefore crowding out all other viruses that finish people off (for want of a better term). Hence, there is nothing to see now in the official excess death figures. If covid is removed retrospectively from the notifiable disease list from September/October, we would be none the wiser. The elderly and infirm are more likely to die in the winter months, and no amount of locking down will change that.

362873 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Derek Toyne, 4, #1282 of 1795 🔗

On the bright side, Ivor Cummins has rebutted Snowden here:


Cummins’ replies are in red (mostly).

362684 TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 80, #1283 of 1795 🔗

It genuinely saddens me to write this comment, I expect thumbs down votes,
but here goes.

I now really really do not see an end to any of this shit now, there has been no riots here because of the ludicrous & insane rules that are made up as they go along.

They will keep pulling out the “new variant”, “super strain” line each & every time, just to keep the masses scared.

It sickens me that the majority of the population have been utterly brainwashed to all of this nonsense.

If you speak out about it anywhere (except here) you get flamed from the brainwashed sheep for actually having the brains to speak out against this.

The government/s have basically said already that we will not be back to normal any time soon. Read that as Never.

The sheer amount of stupid, gullible gimps that I now see wearing masks outside in the open, in their cars etc is genuinely depressing.

The UK as a whole is utterly fucked now.

There will be no riots, there will be no return to normal life as it was prior to this shit.

You are not allowed to travel anywhere (by law here in Naziland…(sorry I mean Scotland) & if you do, you risk having the gestapo catch you & getting fined (for your own fucking freedom???)

I am still a sceptic, but, it diminishes a little each day because of all the utterly brainwashed people out there, buying into all of this outrageous nonsense & following the stupid made up rules.

I will never ever wear a mask, I will definitely not be taking any fucking vaccine, but, I will also never ever forgive the government’s & the sheep who have caused & are still the cause of all of this.

We, as a country, ARE ROYALLY FUCKED.

Boris you are a fucking wanker.
Nicola you are worse than Adolf.
Wankcock I hope you fucking die you smug wanker.

& the sheep?…..I hope that you all drop fucking dead, along with the above mentioned politicians.

Shame on you all. This once prosperous country is now utterly fucked.

Sorry fellow Sceptics, I am genuinely worn down with this now, there is NO light at the end of this tunnel that I can see.


362693 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 38, #1284 of 1795 🔗

Totally agree. No apology needed. Like you, I am worn down with it also. How the majority don’t care about what is being done, is truly staggering. I will never forgive those who have done this, never. Where is the fight, where is the kick-back …????

362831 ▶▶▶ straightalkingyorkshireman, replying to kh1485, 11, #1285 of 1795 🔗

I must admit I thought there would be some backlash by now. My only real hope is two fold. As the days grow longer and the weather improves more people will venture out and it’ll dawn on them that they’re not suddenly catching a deadly disease and be curious as to why not. My other senario is when most of the vulnerable have been vacinated and there’s very little or no opening up of society people will get pissed off.

362848 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to straightalkingyorkshireman, 16, #1286 of 1795 🔗

I was really naive, I thought the backlash would have happened last April. Blimey, how I misjudged my fellow Brits. Disgusts me how most just go along with it for a quiet life while others have their lives and livelihoods trashed.

362891 ▶▶▶▶▶ jonathan Palmer, replying to kh1485, 13, #1287 of 1795 🔗

I think we all underestimated the depth of the brainwashing that occurred under lockdown.
The severing of human contact allowed the Government to beam the propaganda directly into people’s minds without the filtering effect of friends,family and work colleagues.

362926 ▶▶▶▶▶ straightalkingyorkshireman, replying to kh1485, 9, #1288 of 1795 🔗

Me too, so many say to me ‘when we can’ or ‘when it’s over’ and I tell them I don’t think it’ll ever be over they look at me as if I’m mad.

363079 ▶▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to straightalkingyorkshireman, 2, #1289 of 1795 🔗

Yes, the pinch point will come when the 4 most vulnerable groups are vaccinated-target mid Feb. If anything the Govt are making a rod for their own back by accelerating the vaccination. People won’t grasp why there is still a lockdown. However, the pushback will come from various sectors of business caught up in lockdown. To date, they have gone along with it.

362699 ▶▶ wendy, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 22, #1290 of 1795 🔗

I do agree and understand how you feel but try keep going because spring will come and infections will drop away then what can they say. They are already acknowledging that it is a seasonal virus and is here to stay. I too look at all the masked folks in the open air and in their own cars. But they too have a choice to think things out for themselves and they have chosen their own paths. Once all the people who want to be vaccinated I don’t think anyone will come after those that don’t want to be. I could be wrong! Hold on it will get better

362701 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 21, #1291 of 1795 🔗

Remember the Shawshank Redemption. Andy Dufresne crawls through a mile of shit to pop out the other side. That’s where we are.

Just remember the names and the statements. People will want to forget once the veil has been lifted. The fact that they have been fooled.

362815 ▶▶▶ JHUNTZ, replying to mhcp, 9, #1292 of 1795 🔗

“If you’re willing to go this far, maybe you’re willing to go a bit further”

We have literally gone that far there is light at the end of the tunnel just a little further.

363029 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to mhcp, 5, #1293 of 1795 🔗

That is one of a few films I cannot watch. The Green Mile is another.
At the moment, the reason for me not being able to watch them has become real life. I cannot bear injustice or unfairness of any kind – it maddens me. In both of these films the fact that the life of the main character is stolen from them, although they were innocent of the crime for which they were in prison. In Andy Dufresne’s case, it’s even more relevant because he is only in that position because of someone else’s greed and power. I still cannot believe that in real life, we are being held prisoners although innocent of any crime, and that our lives are being stolen from us for exactly the same reasons.

363089 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to mhcp, 1, #1294 of 1795 🔗

“People will want to forget once the veil has been lifted”. Indeed. A bit like those people who do a body swerve on a narrow path. Try engaging anyone in conversation about this time will be impossible.

362704 ▶▶ rockoman, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 24, #1295 of 1795 🔗

Disagree – what you say is true only if some kind of equilibrium has been reached.

It hasn’t and it can’t be,because the present course of action is unaffordable – as in ‘not enough money’.

Bear in mind that most people seem to think that the vaccine brings back normality.

It’s likely that they will realize that when the weather starts warming up.

Combine that with the eventual financial collapse – a global collapse, which may take a while coming, but is inevitable.

I’m confident that this collapse is coming – indeed it was probably the reason for this whole thing in the first place.

I’m looking forward to seeing the dam break, as it will.

Don’t forget, just because somebody in the supermarket is wearing a muzzle doesb’t mean he or she isn’t scepticsl.

We are far more numerous than we think.

Chin up!

362788 ▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to rockoman, 13, #1296 of 1795 🔗

If history teaches us anything, apart from the Michael Corleone lesson that you can kill anyone, it is that these episodes of mass hysteria are finite. I do think the British could benefit from being more rebellious but perhaps their patience is being tested to destruction, and there will be a reckoning.

362708 ▶▶ Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 25, #1297 of 1795 🔗

I think that this is actually a healthy attitude. In Thoughts of a Philosophical Fighter Pilot by James Stockdale, the author details the manner of his survival in a Hanoi prison where he was kept and tortured for 7 years.

He suggested it was those that held out hope of rescue who would crack first, as their hopes were continually thwarted and they fell deeper into hopelessness and depression.

Stockdale had learned, from reading the Stoic philosopher Epictetus, that the best course of action was to accept his life as it was, and the reality that there was no cause for him to think that freedom was close at hand. Epictetus himself was a Roman slave, so spoke not only from a position of reason, but also experience.

The central tenet of Epictetus’ Stoic philosophy is to make a clear distinction between what you can control, and what you can not. Act upon what you can control, accept that which you can’t, because getting upset will not change anything.

For anyone struggling through lockdown, I would recommend getting a copy of Epictetus’ Enchiridion (manual). It is a slim volume of maxims, but full of rational wisdom.

Maybe more accessible:
“God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference”
Also:” Never let the bastards grind you down.”

362787 ▶▶▶▶ Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, replying to TC, 3, #1299 of 1795 🔗

Yeah, the serenity prayer is the same sentiment. And you should most certainly never let the bastards grind you down. 🙂

362857 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, 3, #1300 of 1795 🔗

Illegitimi non carborundum!

362877 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1301 of 1795 🔗


362897 ▶▶▶▶ jonathan Palmer, replying to TC, 5, #1302 of 1795 🔗

From the book Of Norman Stanley Fletcher

362902 ▶▶▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to jonathan Palmer, 5, #1303 of 1795 🔗

He hit back, within his limitations. Remember the episode where he urinated in a vehicle petrol tank?

362806 ▶▶▶ sam club, replying to Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, 10, #1304 of 1795 🔗

i love this website or not sure what it is newsletter group and the comments so much. i learn so much, and with laughs too from america thank you

362868 ▶▶▶▶ Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, replying to sam club, 4, #1305 of 1795 🔗

Good to have you. Have a read about Stockdale. He was one of yours, and good one at that. He also had a front row seat to the Gulf of Tonkin incident, he was there – the star witness infact, and spoke about it candidly in his book.


362807 ▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, 8, #1306 of 1795 🔗

I disagree. I think they mess with people more who are patient and accepting.
I recall when I was at school, a new boy, there was another in one class who poked me with a sharpened pencil. After he did it a few times I hit him. We both got hit on the hand with a ruler by the teacher who was a creep (this was the 1970s), but people did not mess with me after that.

362846 ▶▶▶▶ Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, replying to Waldorf, 4, #1307 of 1795 🔗

Self defence is a rational choice, and one by which you could effect change. Can you punch the Government and make them stop?

362876 ▶▶▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, 6, #1308 of 1795 🔗

You need to pick your battles, but ultimately if you just let them make you eat sh*t it destroys you, sooner or later. Life in a state of fear and abjection is not life. Which is precisely why I resist being a fear-ridden zombie because of Covid.
I have no answer to all this on my own – nobody does on their own. Which is why I found LS.

362905 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, replying to Waldorf, 4, #1309 of 1795 🔗

Agree. “fear is the mind killer”.

I’m no expert on the Stoic philosophy, so I won’t grind on about it and get on my high horse when I still have so much left to learn myself, but if you spend some time investigating it, there are answers, ways to deal, ways to live gracefully and peacefully, no matter how much shit gets thrown at you. It came down from Socrates, and even in death Socrates refused to submit to the bullshit of tyranny, and yet maintained his equanimity.

Modern Cognative Behavioural Therapy (often used to manage anxiety and PTSD) was inspired by Stoic philosophy, so it has a good deal of relevence today. Clever guys those ancient Greeks.

362710 ▶▶ DanClarke, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 2, #1310 of 1795 🔗


362713 ▶▶ tarfu, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 7, #1311 of 1795 🔗

I think you have captured the feelings of so many of us here on LS. I only wish it was possible to uptick you multiple times.

362718 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 8, #1312 of 1795 🔗

Agreed. Just gotta keep buggering on.

362719 ▶▶ Prof Feargoeson, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 29, #1313 of 1795 🔗

There is a weird dichotomy going on where you can go for a 10 mile walk like I did today and not see a single maskoid, swerver or anything except people out enjoying the sunshine, yet enter a supermarket and as always be the only one unmasked and therefore be easily targeted and ejected. They won’t even notice my loss of purchases but if they are turning away and antagonising a hundred shoppers a day that would begin to impact on their bottom line and change their attitudes. Most of those shoppers are not scared of the virus just of being humiliated, fined or of standing out from the herd.

362726 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 5, #1314 of 1795 🔗

What those in power need to know is that objection (in this country) comes in the form of sick days, visits to the GP etc. Whilst there may not be boots on the street, the country will come to a slow standstill.

362727 ▶▶ isobar, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 12, #1315 of 1795 🔗

Can sympathise entirely with you and I feel your pain. But if it helps, many of us are working, some in full view, others not so, for reasons that I am sure you will understand, to expose lockdowns as the crime against humanity that they are. We won’t give up the fight so please reflect on that.

362728 ▶▶ Lydia, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 17, #1316 of 1795 🔗

I completely agree with you. I feel like this every day as I see no end. I don’t connect anymore with friends that I’ve known for 20 years + as they’re all brainwashed.

362765 ▶▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to Lydia, 13, #1317 of 1795 🔗

I think we all have (or had!) friends like this…its disappointing but people are. Most people just cant cope with being outside the herd for any real length of time. Hence the turncoats like Snowden and Haimes.

362825 ▶▶▶▶ The Mask Exempt Covid Marshall, replying to Boris Bullshit, 5, #1318 of 1795 🔗

‘It’s disappointing but people are’.

How poignantly accurate.

362730 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 8, #1319 of 1795 🔗

Your scepticism clearly isn’t diminishing.
Don’t give up hope. More and more people are waking up to the insanity.

362735 ▶▶ Stephanos, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 13, #1320 of 1795 🔗

I have come to the following conclusions, fairly reluctantly.

  1. There WILL be an end to this but not in my lifetime. Nor those of our children. Our children’s children WILL see the end of this.
  2. It grieves me to say that the British people do not deserve to be free. Like you, I lament the fact that people have, generally, become so supine.
  3. All or our institutions need drastic reform root and branch. How this is to be accomplished I do not know. The corruption is very deep.

I do not think we should give up, I do not counsel despair, but we do need to be realistic. A strategy that we should adopt, I think is to challenge. How often do we respond to some opposition by quoting statistics to present our case, or point out the harmful effects of lockdown, face-nappies, anti-social distancing and so on?
This I think is the wrong way. Let us ask for lockdown zealots to promote their case. Why do they believe this virus is so deadly? So infectious and so forth. Let us ask for THEIR evidence and then it will be very easy to demolish it. They will say (for example) that there are many deaths (there aren’t), that it has caused many deaths (death certificates are false and there are numerous documents for that) that it is highly infectious (how do you know?).
I am sure that many people on this site can think of many others. I have seen numerous examples of statistics quoted out of context, we all have. Instead of defence let us turn to attack.
Get them to defend their case.

362771 ▶▶▶ Stephanos, replying to Stephanos, 5, #1321 of 1795 🔗

After I wrote the above I realised that several people on here like ‘Awkward Git’ have been doing this already.
Sorry if I implied otherwise, I was speaking for myself, reviewing MY tactics.

362793 ▶▶▶ Lord Sid, replying to Stephanos, 12, #1322 of 1795 🔗

I totally agree.I was asked this morning why wasn,t I wearing a mask.My reply was why are you wearing one.The person did not respond .

362840 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Stephanos, 7, #1323 of 1795 🔗

I’m confident it will end and certainly in my lifetime – I’m nearer the end of that than the beginning.

362743 ▶▶ Freddy Freethinker, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 12, #1324 of 1795 🔗

I feel very much the same as you too.

For my children’s sake I still have hope that once there is sufficient physical discomfort for many we’ll see a visible change in sentiment.

There is no way of knowing how many people are going along with it all in public but harbouring a secret disgust, latent and waiting their moment. All polls lie and people take the easy route until they run out of patience – I am surprised how gullible the gonzoids are though.

What are the site statistics for this website? How many visitors and registered users? I’d like to know.

Once the true agenda is in place then I hope even some of the mindless will wake up and realise they have been tricked. If it’s about saving the world’s economy from a deep depression and currency resetting then I expect some of this bullshit to start to fade as they will want money to flow again.

If it’s about sinister political control then heaven only knows and I have to block that thought for now as it makes me ill.

But you are not alone.

362744 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 11, #1325 of 1795 🔗

I would say my scepticism is increasing and definitely my anger.
But I choose my battles.

362752 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 20, #1326 of 1795 🔗

This is a case of collective madness. History is littered with episodes of collective madness. And they all, sooner or later, end. They end because they are mad, and reality can only be denied, ignored, gainsaid for so long before it asserts itself and people are forced by reality to regain their senses.

362816 ▶▶▶ Portnadler, replying to Steve Hayes, 10, #1327 of 1795 🔗

And they all, sooner or later, end.

Exactly! This will pass. It may not be by protest or campaigning: it is more likely to end by drowning in its own madness. Ice melts, the seasons come and go, life goes round in great cycles. The extension of the second dose was a huge mistake and there will inevitably be others. Let’s keep chipping away at the foundations – eventually the whole thing will collapse.

362756 ▶▶ Boris Bullshit, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 11, #1328 of 1795 🔗

Do not apologise…I think many of us feel like that….its like being in an open prison.

362768 ▶▶ awildgoose, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 5, #1329 of 1795 🔗

No apology necessary.

It’s almost all jellyfish and pod people here in the US as well.

362776 ▶▶ Janette, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 7, #1330 of 1795 🔗

Don’t be sorry. We all have days when we feel exactly like you but we must keep on fighting.

362794 ▶▶ sam club, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 4, #1331 of 1795 🔗

same here the masks and no way the tracking ill gates vaccine, dont give up look at that poland lice book video

362796 ▶▶ Jo, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 8, #1332 of 1795 🔗

I feel like that most of the time. It’s the fact that people don’t stand up to it, in the main, that is so difficult to cope with. I’ve always been a bit of an outsider but generally ok with that, but now I just hate people who are so gullible and cannot see the evidence of their own eyes and ears.
Today has a new difficulty which I’m hoping is temporary – my partner’s 81 year old mother had the vaccination on Wednesday and today is not well. She is in good health and still works part-time so, unlike many older people, has many good years left. My partner has gone into a weird state – I won’t say what he is saying, but he is worried about her and very, very angry as he didn’t want her to get the vaccination but respected her right to make her choice.
I do so hope she will be ok. I have tried to reassure him, with reference to her having off-days every now and then and also her hypochondriacal tendencies… I just hope to god she is ok tomorrow.

362797 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 8, #1333 of 1795 🔗

No. Don’t be sorry. But give up on the four-letter words. They make you sound desperate. Those silly sheep are more to be pitied than censured – they’re on their way to the abattoir.

We’re not desperate because we should remain optimistic. It may not be imminent, but there IS a light at the end of the tunnel. We’re here. And we’re still talking, and sowing just one seed here and there, and that’s important.

It’s worse in some places (Scotland) than others, and for some people than others. But keep talking, so that some people can take heart at your words. Surely you have some that can help other people, even worse off than yourself? I do hope so.

362828 ▶▶ sam club, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 4, #1334 of 1795 🔗

i felt the same way today reading childrens health defense the tracking ‘vaccine’.
me too i cannot believe how dumb people are not seeing through all this. am in the tiny minority everywhere aside from here. we must not give up.

362833 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 8, #1335 of 1795 🔗

They have been brainwashed, you’re quite right. But they are not as lost as many believe. Sooner or later, what is happening in Italy and Poland will spread and even the most blinkered sheeple cannot fail but to see what’s happening. Especially that all these people eating out, clubbing, living normally are STILL NOT DEAD.

The penny will drop. It always does.

363078 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 2, #1336 of 1795 🔗

I live in a part of Scotland that is totally compliant. The only way I can stay sane is by coming on this site or by wading through the comments on the DT and Spectator, just to know that there are some people out there that believe this is all a load of cobblers.

However, from the point of view of the people I know where I live, they are pretty much 100 per cent in agreement that they will all have the vaccine and everything will go instantly back to normal.

They know my views on the whole charade, but they tolerate me as being ever-so slightly eccentric! Plus, I think they are longing for me to catch the virus, so they can say, ‘I told you so’! The irony is I have been to far more places than any of them put together in the last 10 months, as most of them have only been as far as the local doctors or Co-op since March.

362688 Bugle, replying to Bugle, 19, #1337 of 1795 🔗

Up to a fifth of workers in Welsh care homes are refusing the vaccine – Google News. (Don’t know how to post the link for this).

362781 ▶▶ Jo, replying to Bugle, 4, #1339 of 1795 🔗

I think if they’d watched that Prof Cahill video posted earlier there would be far more refusing it.

362695 Basileus, replying to Basileus, 16, #1340 of 1795 🔗

Italy even more open for business today:


362770 ▶▶ Janette, replying to Basileus, 1, #1341 of 1795 🔗


362783 ▶▶ The Mask Exempt Covid Marshall, replying to Basileus, 4, #1342 of 1795 🔗

Still a lot of mask-wearing but a good start nonetheless.

362899 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to The Mask Exempt Covid Marshall, 2, #1343 of 1795 🔗

Yes, a slightly weird sort of rebellion in that respect, but maybe it’s a start and better than we are doing.

362952 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Basileus, 1, #1344 of 1795 🔗

Fantastic. Great to see. Thanks for the post.

362702 DanClarke, replying to DanClarke, 5, #1345 of 1795 🔗

My uncle, 96, has just had his covid vaccination………….

362724 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to DanClarke, 2, #1346 of 1795 🔗

Fingers crossed.

362725 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to DanClarke, 5, #1347 of 1795 🔗

My neighbour, about the same age, has too. She feels most unwell…

362894 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Banjones, 3, #1348 of 1795 🔗

At 96 she is lucky to be feeling anything at all !

362805 ▶▶ Adamb, replying to DanClarke, 1, #1349 of 1795 🔗

May he enjoy everlasting life to the full.

362813 ▶▶▶ Adamb, replying to Adamb, 3, #1350 of 1795 🔗

Sorry, maybe that’s in poor taste, congratulations for making it to such an age already.

362896 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Adamb, 1, #1351 of 1795 🔗


362895 ▶▶ John P, replying to DanClarke, 1, #1352 of 1795 🔗

Your point being?

362705 Mayo, replying to Mayo, -11, #1353 of 1795 🔗

Clare Craig has linked to this July Independent article on Twitter. It describes the unusual case of 61 Argentinian sailors who all tested negative for SARS-Cov-2 before setting sail on a 35 day sea voyage but during the trip 57 of the 61 crew members contracted the virus.

I think Clare is making a valid point about the futility of lockdowns, but this case also raises doubts about the scale of prior immunity among populations. The Diamond Princess was a large ship and the passengers were not in contact with each other long enough which is why only about 20% were infected.

On the Argentinian vessel less than 7% of the crew escaped the virus.


362715 ▶▶ DanClarke, replying to Mayo, 8, #1354 of 1795 🔗

Also all those lorry drivers at Dover out 10,000, about 27 positives. No social distancing between them.

362767 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to DanClarke, -7, #1355 of 1795 🔗

Is this relevant?

362847 ▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to DanClarke, 7, #1356 of 1795 🔗

I have the impression they used a different type of test on them that would yield “fewer” positives because they wanted to break the logjam. When they want “more” positives for their nefarious purposes they use a different test.

362933 ▶▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Waldorf, 4, #1357 of 1795 🔗

The French, Belgian and Dutch authorities were happy to accept this and re-open the border within 48 hours. Love to know how they were re-assured.

363000 ▶▶▶▶▶ Waldorf, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #1358 of 1795 🔗

Yes. I would have liked to have been a fly on the wall when that agreement was reached.

362722 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to Mayo, 8, #1359 of 1795 🔗

How many died? How many were very ill? How many were asymptomatic? And so on. Surely those figures are important.

362740 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Banjones, -17, #1360 of 1795 🔗

Irrelevant. Why are they important?

The Herd Immunity case in spring was based on a supposition that only ~20% need to become infected because there was already significant existing herd immunity.

362754 ▶▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Mayo, 5, #1361 of 1795 🔗

? what could be more important?

362761 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to watashi, -12, #1362 of 1795 🔗

Do you not understand what I’ve written. It’s not important in the context of the number who need to be infected to develop sufficient immunity.

Yeadon and others were relying on prior immunity to support their claim that the pandemic was over in May.

362792 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ossettian, replying to Mayo, 15, #1363 of 1795 🔗

It was only ever a pandemic because the WHO changed their definition under pressure from Big Pharma.

362822 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Ossettian, -10, #1364 of 1795 🔗

The virus has spread to most countries across the world. How would you define a Pandemic?

362843 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ossettian, replying to Mayo, 6, #1365 of 1795 🔗

Why am I not surprised that you didn’t deal with my point?

362870 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Mayo, 5, #1366 of 1795 🔗

So has the cold-causing rhinovirus.

362884 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Teddy Edward, replying to Mayo, #1367 of 1795 🔗

I thought if it effects 8% of the population across the globe.

363066 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ iansn, replying to Mayo, 2, #1368 of 1795 🔗

How would you define it Mayo. Do we not have these outbreaks every year of flu and colds in the winter? We do not imprison the populations and deprive them of the rights. So if its 5% more or 15% more or 20% less year to year what do we do? We soldier on and live, leaving our fallen comrades behind whilst we focus on our lives. Regret for them of course, but we must keep living and dreaming.

363238 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mayo, #1369 of 1795 🔗

Not fully convinced there was one before or during May either, myself.

362795 ▶▶▶▶ Adamb, replying to Mayo, 4, #1370 of 1795 🔗

So you are saying that the reason cases/deaths/whatever dropped in may was because of lockdown. In which case why are you here?

362819 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Adamb, -4, #1371 of 1795 🔗

Am I saying that? Where?

362830 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Adamb, replying to Mayo, 2, #1372 of 1795 🔗

So please explain why cases/deaths/call it what you want virtually disappeared in spring

362732 ▶▶ Bungle, replying to Mayo, 3, #1373 of 1795 🔗

Why would Clare do that? We all know tests mean nothing!

362747 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Bungle, -11, #1374 of 1795 🔗

We don’t all know that at all. We know that it’s possible for viral particles to be detected long after the individual has been infected or was infectious. Understanding this is the key. They are not all – or even mostly – False Positives.

362782 ▶▶▶▶ Ossettian, replying to Mayo, 8, #1375 of 1795 🔗

This is just laughable: you’re quibbling about terminology while accepting that a positive PCR result essentially means nothing, especially at high cycle levels.

They are clearly false positives in that they are being used to claim that people are infectious.

362804 ▶▶▶▶ Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, replying to Mayo, 4, #1376 of 1795 🔗

By what mechanism is the presence of the virus being detected?

362874 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Mayo, 7, #1377 of 1795 🔗

“They are not all – or even mostly – False Positives.”

How do you know that? Are you sure?

I don’t think it is at all clear that the current deaths are due to covid or due to misdiagnosed flu. The flu virus has by all accounts practically disappeared.

362738 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Mayo, 2, #1378 of 1795 🔗

From where did they contract the virus?

362753 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Steve Hayes, -5, #1379 of 1795 🔗

No-one seems to know that.

362862 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Mayo, 3, #1381 of 1795 🔗

Much like the mysterious outbreaks of viral respiratory infections on Antarctic research stations that have been completely isolated for months?


362875 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Mayo, 3, #1382 of 1795 🔗

It’s difficult to make assertions about it then.

363242 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mayo, #1383 of 1795 🔗

Pangolin sandwiches ?

362755 ▶▶ TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, replying to Mayo, 14, #1384 of 1795 🔗

Mayo, I really am beginning to think that you are Matt Wankcock or someone from the government. The amount of shit that you post here & it gets the thumbs down is unbelievable.
Does that not tell you something?

Stop posting your utter drivel on here, maybe go onto netmums & post there.

362758 ▶▶▶ jonathan Palmer, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 10, #1385 of 1795 🔗

How you noticed Richard Pinch is no longer active on here now Ferguson is back on the tv

362762 ▶▶▶▶ TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, replying to jonathan Palmer, 6, #1386 of 1795 🔗

🤔 ….well noticed.

362860 ▶▶▶▶▶ jonathan Palmer, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 5, #1387 of 1795 🔗

If he wasn’t Ferguson then he was the only other person in the country who thought his model had any validity.

362777 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, -22, #1388 of 1795 🔗

Does that not tell you something

It tells me that you don’t like the points I make because you aren’t able to offer a counter argument.

Why don’t you argue the point instead of engaging in childish name calling.

Lockdown Sceptics are on the back foot and the reason is that too many of them have swallowed dubious claptrap from the likes of Mike Yeadon and one or two others.

362839 ▶▶▶▶ TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, replying to Mayo, 3, #1389 of 1795 🔗

Lol….can’t offer a counter argument???? I am pretty sure that I could Matt, but, I am not going to waste my time on a gobshite like you.

362924 ▶▶▶▶ Freddy Boy, replying to Mayo, 5, #1390 of 1795 🔗

I’d take Yeadon over shitty & unbalanced even if I wasn’t skeptical , anyway put the virus to one side !! The lockdowns are & will be far more destructive to our lives !!!

362940 ▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Freddy Boy, -2, #1391 of 1795 🔗

Pick your experts carefully. Ideally with a track record of being correct. Yeadon is not that expert.


362995 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Freddy Boy, replying to djaustin, #1392 of 1795 🔗

He’s normal & he likes to tinker with old Japanese motorbikes, would you get witless to look after your cat !

363016 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mayo, 1, #1393 of 1795 🔗

Well if anyone ever doubted you’re a troll, you’ve certainly removed all doubt now.

362881 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to TheOriginalAnotherSceptic, 6, #1394 of 1795 🔗

I think mayo is genuine, though I can understand that it is hard to believe sometimes.

Mayo is entitled to his views and his posts are useful in that they force you to construct good counter arguments.

362760 ▶▶ Will, replying to Mayo, 10, #1395 of 1795 🔗

Very few people live as closely with each other as sailors on a ship. My father used to remark that sailors, when he was in the navy, had less personal space than you legally have to afford a pig. Anyway, I am sure you are delighted to see the Zoe app showing the disease disappearing and all starting before this unobserved lockdown even started…

362790 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Will, 1, #1396 of 1795 🔗

I’ve been championing ZOE since it started. Many LS readers didn’t like it because, for a long time, it didn’t show them what the wanted to see. I’m glad you appear to be a convert.

Yes – ZOE is showing a significant decline in active cases. The number recovering is clearly greater than the number newly infected. I’m not sure we can yet say the disease is disappearing since ZOE is still showing over 40k new symptomatic cases a day but it’s looking promising.

And – YES – I do know ZOE was showing a slowdown or decline in infections before the lockdown. As it did in October before lockdown 2.

That’s why I’m opposed to lockdown.

Re: ship crew. If crew members had prior immunity the crowded conditions would be irrelevant. If they are immune they are immune.

362885 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Mayo, 3, #1397 of 1795 🔗

Is it not possible that “immunity” is viral load dependant? A level of T cell cross immunity might be protective against a regular viral load but less protective to a community living cheek by jowl with each other. The passengers on the Diamond Princess would not have been living as densely as the sailors on this ship. As for the Zoe app, it has been reliable all the way through, much like the ONS survey was when they were still doing it. As I always felt it was highly likely that we would see the remnants of the wave of the virus from the spring, in the autumn, I haven’t been surprised by recent events, Vallance was right in March.

362779 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Mayo, 1, #1398 of 1795 🔗

Anyone drawing inferences from the Diamond Princess example has to evaluate how effective the quarantine was – and almost no one does so. I recall reading at the time that a Japanese doctor or someone said the quarantine was useless, but don’t know how much credence to put on that.

Regarding the trawler, perhaps you can have some immunity, but it means you fight the disease off easily when you are infected, rather than not getting infected at all? Would that account for it?

How badly affected were they?

Also maybe viral load plays a role – perhaps you can be effectively immune to small loads, but not to larger ones. On a fishing boat I imagine you stand to get a very high viral load – bit like in prisons, where I believe there have also been very high infection rates.

I’m only asking questions here – I have no medical background.

362817 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to TJN, -5, #1399 of 1795 🔗

Anyone drawing inferences from the Diamond Princess example has to evaluate how effective the quarantine was

Most of the positive tests were carried out within a few days. There was only about a 10-12 day period when the passengers were mixing together and, as far as we know, the initial infection began from a single index case.

Your speculation is reasonable enough but I’m not sure that was the basis for the much lower herd immunity threshold suggested by some.

362832 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Mayo, 4, #1400 of 1795 🔗

The prison infection levels were available months ago, and I think a cuple of naval vessels also had high rates.

I had chicken pox when I was young. Kids had it a couple of years ago, and after about a week/ten days/something-like-that I felt really shit for a day. Maybe I was infected and was just throwing it off? Seems an obvious question whether we deal with repeat infections in that way. But one of major problems with the covid stuff is that many obvious questions don’t get asked, let alone addressed.

As someone with a science background, but not in medicine, I find this quite disturbing.

362901 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Mayo, 3, #1401 of 1795 🔗

The main problem with debating/thinking about covid: the data is almost all shit.

362887 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to TJN, 1, #1402 of 1795 🔗

And fisherman are nearly as unhealthy as prisoners.

362912 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Will, 2, #1403 of 1795 🔗

That’s true! Although I don’t know many prisoners, I can vouch for the general physical state of fishermen. Tough job I suppose.

362799 ▶▶ rockoman, replying to Mayo, 2, #1404 of 1795 🔗


What if a virus is transmitted not person to person, in the main, but as fine aerosols on the wind which then tend to collect indoors.

362818 ▶▶ Ossettian, replying to Mayo, 5, #1405 of 1795 🔗

You’re a claimed opponent of lockdowns.

It’s strange that I can’t remember you ever posting anything that supports the sceptic case.

362829 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Ossettian, -4, #1406 of 1795 🔗

See my reply to Will below.

362865 ▶▶▶▶ Ossettian, replying to Mayo, 1, #1407 of 1795 🔗

Nah: I hadn’t read that when I commented so it doesn’t count.

How about something from before today?

362900 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Ossettian, -4, #1408 of 1795 🔗

There’ll be something somewhere. I’m not digging around for stuff. of my sceptic output was posted on Twitter but my account was suspended because lockdown zealots complained.

I’ve been concerned that followers and managers of this blog have focused on too much speculative wishful thinking and it’s backfired. See the recent Chris Snowdon article in Quillette. Even Toby acknowledges it’s hit the target.

363021 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ isobar, replying to Mayo, 1, #1409 of 1795 🔗

There is no excuse for supporting a ‘house arrest’ policy and the deliberate terrorisation of the British Public through Project Fear. No excuse whatsoever! So my CS books have gone in the bin as has the link to his website. What a turncoat!

362889 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mayo, 1, #1410 of 1795 🔗

Can you still test positive if you have immunity, you still deal with the virus internally, heard a Swiss immunologists point that out, immunity is not an external force field, it’s a ver sensitive test

362906 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Major Panic, -3, #1411 of 1795 🔗

Ok – so you’re saying you can contract the virus but not pass it on. Presumably, then, the Pfizer vaccine will be effective.

362914 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mayo, 1, #1412 of 1795 🔗

If ur immune system destroys the virus before it infects cells is there not still RNA present. I’m a lay person, I deliver Chinese food, just using logic

362930 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 2, #1413 of 1795 🔗

Don’t T cells destroy infected cells so RNA present even when immunity deals with virus

362820 ▶▶ matt, replying to Mayo, 13, #1414 of 1795 🔗

I don’t think it really matters anymore, does it?

Whatever the reason, the virus clearly collapsed over the spring and summer. It simply wasn’t a problem, despite the continued “case” count and relentless doom-mongering. It seems unlikely that this had to do with half arsed control measures, whose only purpose seems to have been maintaining the atmosphere of abnormality and fear, since none of them realistically could have led to a fall in serious infection. CF where we apparently are today, despite harsher “measures” going into the autumn and winter.

Whatever the reason, there is a current apparent increase in infections, which is leading to an apparent current increase in hospitalisations, ICU admissions and deaths. I say ‘apparent’ because, although I don’t know that there isn’t a genuine problem, I also can’t use the official numbers to establish that there genuinely is.

As I understand it, herd immunity isn’t a binary question and many things impact it. Similarly, prior immunity needn’t be total to be relevant. Were 93% of the fishermen sick, or did some of the 93% simply test positive? I would think that was a valuable piece of data. If some or many tested positive and were not sick, it might well mean that they had at least a degree of immunity.

Regardless – and it was you who led me to crystallise this thinking through your posts here – I’ve yet to see anything outside groupthink and assertion – that shows the logical connection between “we have a problem” and “lockdown is the right thing to do. Lockdown is wrong, regardless of the numbers.

Finally, a question I would love to see answered: whence the certainty in the summer that we should expect a “second wave”? Given that it hasn’t happened before with a respiratory virus epidemic, except for Spanish ‘flu (and then, debatably), quite why were SAGE and others completely convinced it was coming this time? There’s one other feature of this epidemic (lockdown) that is also unique and I wonder if the expectation of a second wave was an anticipated result? I can’t think of many alternative answers that aren’t more sinister or at least more mendacious

362849 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to matt, 5, #1415 of 1795 🔗

Not certain, but I would imagine that a resurgence was all but unavoidable after temporary suppression in the first lockdown and the restrictions that followed. Calling this a second wave was an attempt to make it a property of the virus, not the consequence of Govt decision-making. There was no second wave with any other respiratory virus because they have never been temporarily suppressed in the same way (the can wasn’t kicked down the road).

362909 ▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Charlie Blue, 3, #1416 of 1795 🔗

Not certain, but I would imagine that a resurgence was all but unavoidable after temporary suppression in the first lockdown and the restrictions that followed

Possible. I certainly thought we should have fully opened up in May. That way more people may have have had exposure to light viral the load which would enable some immunity.

362864 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to matt, 3, #1417 of 1795 🔗

A few responses to some of your points

1/ The virus is a problem NOW and will continue to be a problem for another week or so.

2/ Herd Immunity implies that a sufficient number in the population are immune to a virus to the extend that they cannot transmit it. This means that those who aren’t immune are less likely to get it. Many readers of this blog question the efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine because there is no guarantee that it confers precisely this level of immunity.

3/. I thought we would get a second wave or ripple. Seasonality – not lockdown or herd immunity – interrupted spread of the virus in the summer. I have no idea why anyone thinks it wasn’t a strong possibility – or why anyone thinks one virus epidemic should behave the same as another.

362893 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Mayo, 5, #1418 of 1795 🔗

No, this is not valid.

What in your opinion has happened to the flu?

Because it has virtually disappeared this year.

Has covid “out-competed” it or is it now being misdiagnosed as covid?

I am not in the least bit concerned about the current situation which is exactly the same as in every year, excepting that the problem is now called “covid” instead of “flu”.

362938 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to John P, -4, #1419 of 1795 🔗

Flu normally originates in the SH winter. Very little of it was detected in 2020. However ..

This is not the flu – unless it’s a particularly virulent strain of flu. I’m seeing far too many young healthy people laid up for long periods. And, ‘by fit’ I mean guys who box, compete in iron man, run regularly and play football.

I had very little experience of the disease in Spring but over the last few weeks it’s been all around me. FIVE of my nephews from the same family all came down with it. My son, daughter & her partner are currently recovering. All of them between the age of 30 and 40. It’s, by far, the worst virus outbreak I’ve seen

I am not in the least bit concerned about the current situation which is exactly the same as in every year

We’ll see. We’ve had a huge excess mortality spike in the spring. This will be followed by another hefty spike in January. How ‘hefty’? I don’t want to speculate but it’s not looking good.

362950 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mayo, 1, #1420 of 1795 🔗

Why are symptoms in younger people so much worse this time round?
It’s like a different virus

362951 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Adamb, replying to Mayo, 4, #1421 of 1795 🔗

Sorry to hear about people close to you who have been affected by this. But you surely cannot come on here and offer personal anecdotes as evidence against the general opinion that the seriousness of the disease is hugely overstated? It’s no more significant than saying I’ve had it, a load of work colleagues have had it, my 80 year old parents have had it, and it was no worse than a cold.

363028 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mayo, 2, #1422 of 1795 🔗

Well your family must be a very unhealthy bunch.
I’m 67 and have just had it. I’ve felt more ill with the common cold!

362903 ▶▶▶▶ Adamb, replying to Mayo, 2, #1423 of 1795 🔗

In essence it boils down to the definition of herd immunity, and it’s clear by now that there is no consensus on this. I see it as nothing more than a state in which a disease outbreak becomes self limiting. Not that it dwindles to zero. You claim Yeadon is wrong, and yet even adopt his word ‘ripple’ to describe what is happening now. As for the notion that ‘seasonality’ was the reason for the drop in death in spring – pull the other one it’s got bells on. You’re telling me that it turned around in a month or so cos the weather changed?

362922 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mayo, 5, #1424 of 1795 🔗

I don’t think we’re in violent disagreement, but maybe talking at cross purposes.

1) there is a problem now. I think the question of whether SARS-CoV-2 is the driver of said problem is moot, though. I don’t rule it out, but the data that’s made available to us doesn’t allow us to make that point emphatically. This is the fault of the selected data sets, all of which have been chosen in such a way as to allow a maximally catastrophist interpretation. The burden on the healthcare system is partly driven by the response to the virus itself (through a reduction in beds through social distancing and a reduction in workforce at least partly due to asymptomatic self isolation) and partly through a relatively modest increase in demand above the norm. It’s reasonable to assume that the increase in demand is caused at least partly by the introduction of a novel respiratory virus – but assume is all we can do, because the data is trash.

2) I’ve seen it acknowledged many times, here and elsewhere that herd immunity depends on a number of factors, including the robustness of the immune systems of the population as a whole. Among the things that affect the robustness of immune systems is the season. Stress, general health, diet and lack of regular exposure to pathogens through social isolation and excessive sanitisation are among the other things that may reduce the immune response. I would think it’s not unreasonable to suggest that we were at a herd immunity threshold in May, which contributed to the collapse of the epidemic, but – the virus having become endemic – that threshold has increased in the winter. It’s a theory that can’t be proved, but I don’t think there’s any reason to completely dismiss the idea that at least some of the country was at a herd immunity threshold in the early summer

3) of course seasonality is a factor. I don’t think anyone thought that the virus was going to vanish completely and – as with all other endemic coronaviruses- it was going to come back in the autumn and winter. This, of course, is partly caused by the reduced function of the immune system in the winter months. But we’re left with trying to work out whether this is a second epidemic wave – as we’re being told – for the first time ever, or we’re just being encouraged to believe it is to justify government policy

362949 ▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to matt, #1425 of 1795 🔗

SAGE and others completely convinced it was coming this time?

Absence of significant levels of population immunity based on serology. The in vitro cross-reactivity was interesting, but does not imply sterile immunity. As you hint, it may limit symptoms. For the trawler, it had to turn back as two sailors were seriously ill (hospitalised). The remainder had varying symptoms, again as might be expected by their possible cross-reactive immunity. All tested positive after (i think on serology too) but none before the voyage.

362979 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to djaustin, 1, #1426 of 1795 🔗

Well, firstly, I never bought the results of the serology tests, I’m afraid, because they were not widespread and they did not take into account the reduction in antibodies in individuals over time, all while they were telling us that antibodies reduced over time.

Secondly, it strikes me that the best case scenario is that they new that a second surge in infections after the summer was specifically caused by the first lockdown.

362856 ▶▶ John P, replying to Mayo, 4, #1427 of 1795 🔗

“I think Clare is making a valid point about the futility of lockdowns”

On this specific point we are in agreement.

362867 ▶▶ John P, replying to Mayo, 7, #1428 of 1795 🔗

“but during the trip 57 of the 61 crew members contracted the virus”.

This is not true, mayo.

57 of the 61 were reported as having tested positive when they returned to shore.

That does not mean that they actually had the virus when you take into account the inaccuracy of the tests.

362886 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to John P, #1429 of 1795 🔗

Not sure about that, John. Allowing for some possible false positives in the strictest sense, if they tested negative before embarking, then would that mean that something happened to produce viral fragments that were then picked up at the other end of the trip? I suppose there is a possibility of lab contamination, but I guess there are too many unknowns for us to be able to unpick to any of our satisfactions, I would think.

362907 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #1430 of 1795 🔗

“I guess there are too many unknowns for us”

Which is exactly my point!

The PCR test cannot be relied upon to give definitive results. You do not know how strictly the testing has been conducted and how many cycles have been used.

362932 ▶▶ djaustin, replying to Mayo, #1431 of 1795 🔗

The virus infection has passed through the bulk of the population as a result of wholly natural processes and evidence indicates that in the UK and other heavily infected European countries the spread of the virus has been all but halted by a substantial reduction in the susceptible population… The evidence presented in this paper indicates that there should be no expectation of a large scale ‘second wave’


There is little evidence of preexisting immunity out in the field. Plenty of data on cross-reactivity in vitro. But that does not appear very protective. Clearly in a close-mixing cold ship there is ample transmission and no protection. The Diamond Pricess used quarantine to limit spread.

362956 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to djaustin, #1432 of 1795 🔗

I think my comment pretty much agrees with yours.

362990 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Mayo, 4, #1433 of 1795 🔗

This is an article about influenza and the many paradoxes in its epidemiological pattern. C-19 seems to have exactly the same enigmatic pattern. This will also explain that herd immunity is almost impossible to measure because even more important could be the innate immunity, which cannot be measured with antibodies T cells etc which we do for the adapted immunity (antigen related immunity). The innate immunity is direct stopping the virus entering the body and Vitamin D is important part of this.
The same paradoxes in influenza and C-19.
Why are there so few further secondary cases in families if the virus is so contagious?
Why does the epidemic start almost simultaneously in the same latitude in Northern Hemisphere?
Why can influenza suddenly disappear during summer?
Why have not the modern pattern of transportation really not changed the waves (in fact 1918,1957,1968 and now 2020 very same pattern) ?
Why does the epidemic suddenly stop although there could be many non immune according to lack of antibodies?
Why does it seem to be rather few persons infecting many, super spreaders both in influenza and C-19?
Why is it so difficult to measure Ro in influenza?
Why are so many cases not transmitting?
Why are we not finding after an epidemic and many cases a pattern that new born, children which should be non- immune(no antibodies) to the virus should be the most affected, and still we find the virus mostly affect the elderly?
Why is it so difficult to infect volunteers with the virus ? Rather shocking the story in the article of injecting fresh nose aspirate from Spanish flu victims to Navy volunteers without any getting infected.
Why do we have no real reduction in mortality despite flu vaccine and patients having antibody response?
If you read this article there is much more than adaptive immunity to explain the spread of the virus. The innate immunity is also very important and not easily measurable as antibodies. Therefore we cannot rely on statistical/R factor etc as there are so many unknown factors in the total immunity. All these intelligent mathematicians, statistical brilliant people always want some measurable but biology is not that easy to measure despite our enthusiasm.
 This article gives you some idea that the innate immunity could explain asymptomatic spread and other intriguing factors we are seeing.

363147 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Mayo, 1, #1434 of 1795 🔗

Her comment was ‘ Reminds me of the Antarctic expeditions all catching colds after total isolation.’
An outbreak of common colds at an Antarctic base after seventeen weeks of complete isolation

362709 PastImperfect, replying to PastImperfect, 17, #1435 of 1795 🔗

Poland Facebook

362721 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to PastImperfect, 5, #1436 of 1795 🔗


362723 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to PastImperfect, 9, #1437 of 1795 🔗

If only Brits showed as much spirit …

363235 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to kh1485, 1, #1438 of 1795 🔗

You do every time you chalk on your blackboard !

362731 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to PastImperfect, 4, #1439 of 1795 🔗

Way to go…

362784 ▶▶ sam club, replying to PastImperfect, 2, #1440 of 1795 🔗


362791 ▶▶ JHUNTZ, replying to PastImperfect, 8, #1441 of 1795 🔗

Incredible. It appears wee Billy G and his cronies are going to struggle to engineer their fantasy world onto 7 billion people.

362879 ▶▶ rockoman, replying to PastImperfect, 5, #1442 of 1795 🔗


When you watch that you realize if you didn’t before – that we are bound to win.

362941 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to PastImperfect, 3, #1443 of 1795 🔗

Brilliant. Thanks for the post, I went to a wedding in a Polish ski resort a few years ago. They REALLY know how to party!

363232 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to PastImperfect, #1444 of 1795 🔗


and they’re good plumbers too …

362741 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 43, #1445 of 1795 🔗

Local Live
Anti mask graffiti spotted in the city
The full message reads
“Take off the mask and smell the bull****”

“The full image can be seen below so don’t scroll down further if you’re offended by bad language”

362764 ▶▶ Prof Feargoeson, replying to karenovirus, 10, #1446 of 1795 🔗

Nice one, eat your heart out Banksy.

362851 ▶▶ John P, replying to karenovirus, 10, #1447 of 1795 🔗

That’s not graffiti, that’s a work of art!

363213 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to karenovirus, #1448 of 1795 🔗

Nice one Karen. Which city ?

We’re in a war for our descendants’ and our freedom. Bad language isn’t a thing sensible people like us fret too much about, is it ?

362745 tarfu, replying to tarfu, 16, #1449 of 1795 🔗

Here’s a genuine question. The Mail Online states that 704 people have died of Covid today. How are daily figures collected. Do all hospitals and care homes ring a hot line with daily figures? They can’t be ‘recorded’ figures as Registry Offices are closed on a Sunday. Or is is just more Project Fear to drive everyone to their nearest Vaccination Centre?

362751 ▶▶ stevie, replying to tarfu, 3, #1450 of 1795 🔗

This is usually deaths reported and can be deaths that occurred over a number of days. See https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths

362772 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to tarfu, 5, #1451 of 1795 🔗

Local Live online frequently report
‘5 further covid deaths at major regional hospital, these deaths were recorded on 9th, 12th and 2 on 15th’.
It is not made clear whether these are newly classified Covid deaths or if they have previously been reported.
Fact is for over a week Covid deaths have been bumbling along at 0-1 per day just like at the height of lockdown lite in mid summer.

Overwhelmed by second wave my aunt fanny ( as my dad would say if really wound up by government mendacity).

362821 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to tarfu, 9, #1452 of 1795 🔗

They mean ”WITH” coervid, of course. Not OF it. And they could be made up of figures from people who tested positive a month ago.
We have to keep this in perspective. We are being manipulated.
Yes, it’s meant to make people positively DESPERATE to be jabbed.

362845 ▶▶ John P, replying to tarfu, 1, #1453 of 1795 🔗

What do you think?

362859 ▶▶ tarfu, replying to tarfu, 2, #1454 of 1795 🔗

Thanks all for the replies so far. Pardon me for being dim, but a quick Google tells me there are circa 21,700 Care Homes and 1,250 Hospitals in the UK. I still can’t see how figures are collected from all these potential places by 16:00 (ONS website https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/ = 671 daily deaths up to 17th Jan)) I’m obviously no statistician as I can’t get my head round it.

362869 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to tarfu, 4, #1455 of 1795 🔗

They aren’tall collected on the day. That’s why we get deaths from months previously being added to daily totals – reporting takes time to catch up.

362969 ▶▶▶▶ Richy_m_99, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #1456 of 1795 🔗

What is reported are the REGISTERED deaths from the previous which is easy to collate.

About six days ago, one of the deaths registered actually took place last May!

362954 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to tarfu, 2, #1457 of 1795 🔗

It takes about 3 days to get an appointment to complete the death certificate. I would say that would be the quickest as it requires an appointment, documented cause of death from the hospital plus a relative to complete the formal death certificate. It takes about 30-40 minutes over the phone.with the registry office. When they say there are 704 Covid deaths reported, some/all of these must be released by the NHS before the death is officially registered.
Using your example of 704, these would be deaths over a number of weeks. Say 350 0f the 704 were reported yesterday these must therefore be communicated without the official death certificate being completed but the hospital/nursing home will have the documented cause of death. In short I think they are not Registry Office figures as you point out.

362759 Basics, replying to Basics, 47, #1458 of 1795 🔗

Two tier political policing.

See the arrest last night of the chief BLM bint outside Downing street last night. Polite holding wrists allowing all kinds of whining during arrest. Then processed and allowed out in an hour or two.

Where was the 5 man rugby tackle? The punch from knuckle dusted fist into the face. The grapple of the ankles. The knee into the back of the neck. The forcing of the skull into the pavement. The dragging and rolling. The deliberately overtight hand cuffing behind her back. The picking up by cortoted limbs and use of stree position.

Police no longer have my consent.

362826 ▶▶ JaneHarry, replying to Basics, 13, #1459 of 1795 🔗

What? are BLM still protesting in London about the death of a career criminal in a foreign country? what has it got to do with them anyway? in front of their noses are abominable human rights abuses, but they don’t even notice them because they are too busy posturing fake outrage in a fake cause

362850 ▶▶▶ Paulus, replying to JaneHarry, 4, #1460 of 1795 🔗

Very different Police response here as well, where were the TSG and snatch squads

https://www.tenby-today.co.uk/article.cfm?id=130330&headline=“We%20need%20freedom …not%20prison”%20chant%20asylum%20seekers%20on%20protest%20walk%20from%20camp%20to%20Tenby&sectionIs=news&searchyear=2021

362763 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 35, #1461 of 1795 🔗

Good day today.

Began with the case of wine, delivered by a young man from Yodel with a lovely beaming barefaced smile, who asked if I wanted it lifting inside.

DS brought GD to visit. He spent ages ploughing through the rules about bubbles. They are so complicated as to be pretty opaque – with some serious gaps – so we decided to just carry on regardless. What a load of bubbles!

On the other hand, he and his wife are struggling. Lockdown is putting a serious strain on their relationship for various reasons. At least he can get out to go to work – for now.

My friend too is climbing the walls because her DH has had all his hobbies forbidden, including playing golf 5 times per week. He now hangs around at home getting increasingly grumpy and nitpicky, sport blaring from the tv, while she has nowhere to escape – especially now the weather is bad.

There must be loads of similar cases – and many worse and at crisis point.

362773 ▶▶ Jo, replying to Cheezilla, 29, #1462 of 1795 🔗

I hope your day went ok after beginning with the case of wine!
I sympathise, I used to go bellringing 6 times + per week. Now I drink during the evenings I would have been at a practice. It isn’t “the end of the world”, losing a time- consuming and social hobby, compared to people’s job losses and illnesses, but it still matters.

362802 ▶▶▶ peter-, replying to Jo, 27, #1463 of 1795 🔗

The loss of your hobbies is an immense imposition and one that I haven’t taken so lightly.

We are living in a country which combines the worst of modern day China, traditional communism and radical Islam. Enjoying your life is now strictly forbidden as it is under those evil regimes and should not be tolerated or accepted under any circumstances.

The bastards behind the is evil and the morons who go along with it will be made to pay.

362861 ▶▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to peter-, 4, #1464 of 1795 🔗

We can but hope. But our idea of ”paying” as Christians may not be punishment enough to deter them going any further.

362987 ▶▶▶▶▶ Alice, replying to Banjones, 5, #1465 of 1795 🔗

Deuteronomy 32:35

King James Version

35 To me belongeth vengeance and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste.

362814 ▶▶▶ JaneHarry, replying to Jo, 11, #1466 of 1795 🔗

it’s an assault on your freedom and dignity, on a par with being raped. It IS a HUGE deal, and don’t ever say otherwise

362854 ▶▶▶▶ JHUNTZ, replying to JaneHarry, 5, #1467 of 1795 🔗

It’s horrendous my loss of lawn bowls and the gym resigns me to a glorified prison sentence.

362855 ▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Jo, 21, #1468 of 1795 🔗

I am so sad at the loss of our church bells. We live close to the church and the practice sessions and the Sunday services were a joy.

Now the 900 year old church stands sad, silent and lifeless. There is a grudging ugly notice stuck on the door that tells us we MAY go in Tuesdays, Thursdays and Sundays for ”private prayer” for AN HOUR. This church has been open for me and my forebears for 900 years – and now an arrogant pipsqueak tells me I must keep away.

I walk around it every day (not that I was ever a regular churchgoer) and I am appalled that people supposedly more committed than I have allowed this to happen.

362858 ▶▶▶▶ Banjones, replying to Banjones, 10, #1469 of 1795 🔗

On the cenotaph are the names of three men from the same family, bellringers before the War, whose great nephews are still bellringers here. Where are they? Why are they not ringing handbells beneath the preaching cross every Sunday – as I would be in their position?
I despair.

362844 ▶▶ John P, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1470 of 1795 🔗

I didn’t realise you were such a heavy drinker Cheezilla.

What will you be having for breakfast tomorrow, I wonder?

362890 ▶▶▶ BJJ, replying to John P, 1, #1471 of 1795 🔗


362996 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to John P, 1, #1472 of 1795 🔗


362778 Richy_m_99, replying to Richy_m_99, 63, #1473 of 1795 🔗


NHS in crisis, an easy solution.


Overnight, the NHS can increase their staff numbers by an extra 20 thousand, allowing them to open up the wards that they had shut and provide the beds that they say they are short of.

Now, I’ll have a million quid as a consultant please.

362836 ▶▶ Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, replying to Richy_m_99, 9, #1474 of 1795 🔗

I’d be happy to consult to our government for free! Just get me out of this cycle of madness.

363001 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Richy_m_99, 4, #1475 of 1795 🔗

Add Ivermectin and shut the NHS down.

362786 Dartford44, replying to Dartford44, 37, #1476 of 1795 🔗

I am one of the younger households in my cul-de sac.All I hear from other residents is talk about when they will be getting the vaccine
They will still walk down the road or drive their cars with masks on afterwards.
Give me strength.

362810 ▶▶ JayBee, replying to Dartford44, 18, #1477 of 1795 🔗

Same here.
Neither they nor my father etc. have a clue that those ‘vaccines’ are completely different from the ones they and their children used to get in their youth.
And they also don’t want to hear about that.

362852 ▶▶▶ JHUNTZ, replying to JayBee, 10, #1478 of 1795 🔗

I cannot get this point through to the people closest to me. Thought proces is it says vaccine so it must be a vaccine and it must be safe as i’ve had a bunch of them. Same with testing it says positive case it must be proof of COVID 19.

362892 ▶▶▶▶ JayBee, replying to JHUNTZ, 6, #1479 of 1795 🔗

It’s truly amazing, psychologically.
Even the co-inventor and chief provider of the PCR test, Drosten’s business partner Olfert, has admitted in a recent interview that the test has an actual false positive rate of 50!%, and that it is therefore practically useless.
But no reporting on that in the MSM, no consequences in politics or medicine, no interest to learn about this by Covidian ‘friends’.
There is, and always was, only one explanation for all this:
This is a cult.
And as all of them, it either MUST be right or WANTS to go under. And it will.
We can and must only focus on not being annihilated along with

362838 ▶▶ Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, replying to Dartford44, 18, #1480 of 1795 🔗

They only differ from children in the size and appearance of their bodies, they want a daddy to look after then (Government) and mummy teach them how to behave (TV).

This is a choice. They all have access to the greatest compendium of knowledge and expert opinion that the world has ever seen, available through a pocket sized device, and yet opt for lazy ignorance.

Of course, I think it’s right to be courteous, they are fellow humans, but not for one minute will I indulge them in the consequences of their choices. I gave up wiping the arses of grown men and women long ago.

363180 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, 1, #1481 of 1795 🔗

Am i the only one curious as to why you were wiping people’s arses in the first place, HMST ? 🙂

363267 ▶▶▶▶ Her Majesty's Shitposting Trollfarm, replying to JohnB, #1482 of 1795 🔗

Corporate management and the eternal cry of “who hired this fuckwit?!”

362800 Harrydean, replying to Harrydean, 39, #1483 of 1795 🔗

A few comments on travel experience from Edinburgh to Nice by train for anyone interested in how travel restrictions are currently.
Jumped on West Coast from Edinburgh to London yesterday – train very quiet, 4 others in our carriage, anti-socially distanced. I don’t wear a mask unless asked and I wasn’t asked. The guard insisted that we occupy the window seats to keep the lepers as far from him as possible. He also announced that the transport police would get on at Carlisle to check we had good reason to cross the border – maybe a foretaste of things to come! But, they didn’t – just another project fear technique I guess. Other than that a great journey. And good to see that in London most people outside without masks on.
Today London to Paris and on to Nice. Apprehensive about the UK/France crossing now with Brexit and Wuhan flu. Arrived at St Pancras early – I love the area since the Eurostar refurb, what a great job – and was asked to show flu test twice, once by Eurostar and then also French immigration. Noticed others with paper certificates, apps, texts, all sorts but the checking was pretty cursory – appeared to be date check only.
There were signs to remove masks but no-one did – I was the only mask-free person. Maybe people didn’t believe it, or didn’t look up from their smartphone. The departure hall at Eurostar must be the most Wuhan flu-free place in London yet everyone wears masks. And I observed one of the Eurostar staff with latex gloves on continually going over to the gel stand and cleaning them! The brain-washing appears complete – it’s going to be hard work changing peoples new reflexes – and kids who are growing up with this!
No questions at immigration either about why I was travelling – I have a UK passport and French residency which may be the reason.
Eurostar was half-full and no mask police. Also no real coffee at the buffet, only instant – I’m a coffee snob I admit. The guy working there apologised and thought it was due to cost-cutting as they have to get a cleaner on daily to clean the machine out. It amazes me how we keep running our trains like this – I’m happy we do but the companies must be making some tidy losses.
The TGV conductors are stricter about masks so have to wear a chin-strap which annoys the hell out of me – I can’t follow the herd for the sake of it and when it makes no sense. I want your viral load – and I’ve only ever used hand-gel when on a 3 week arctic expedition with no washing facilities. And the continual messaging “for our own safety” annoys the fuck out of me.
I keep travelling quite regularly in Europe and so far not been stopped so maybe the police overreactions we are seeing are rare. Only issue to date was this Covid test for border crossing. If this is a portent of things to come then will have to seek out a creative solution for this.
Daily reader of this site and comments which I’m thankful for – it’s great to know that you’re not alone in this madness.

362823 ▶▶ rockoman, replying to Harrydean, 22, #1484 of 1795 🔗

I refuse to travel.

I am not spending my money for that kind of experience.

Let them eat Universal Basic Income,

362834 ▶▶▶ Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, replying to rockoman, 28, #1485 of 1795 🔗

That’s exactly how I feel. Losing travel was one of the things that used to make me cry when all of this started, but now you couldn’t pay me to travel. I’ll keep my money and remain miserable in my own country. I might do some road trips at some point, but I won’t ever don a mask to travel.

362878 ▶▶▶▶ Tom in Scotland, replying to Lisa (formerly) from Toronto, 25, #1486 of 1795 🔗

I agree. I used to travel frequently – all over the world – but there’s no way that I will put up with this nonsense (and pay for the privilege!). The travel/tourism sector can go to hell. Screw ’em. I’m just glad that I was able to travel so much in the past. It wasn’t even all that pleasant to travel before if you look at the use of trains/aircraft/etc and the queues/check-in; now I can’t even imagine doing it with the horror of masks, virus tests, etc. No way.

362953 ▶▶▶▶▶ Harrydean, replying to Tom in Scotland, 4, #1487 of 1795 🔗

Yeah, I’ve completely stopped air travel (was a major part of my job) but I refuse to stop travelling when I need to (family, health) whatever rules are in place.

363018 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tom in Scotland, replying to Harrydean, 2, #1488 of 1795 🔗

Yes, I hope I’m not in that position where I have to decide between some kind of family need and my sanity.

362968 ▶▶▶▶▶ happychappy, replying to Tom in Scotland, 4, #1489 of 1795 🔗

I agree Tom. The really sad thing, though, is that my two sons ( both in their early 20’s) may well never get to experience the freedom of travel that we have, up to this point, always taken for granted. Genuinely breaks my heart.

363017 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tom in Scotland, replying to happychappy, 3, #1490 of 1795 🔗

Yes, it’s really unfair. I’m a lecturer and feel so sorry for my students who will struggle to experience what I did in my 20s. Even if things are not as bad as we fear – if they abolish masks, don’t require a magic ‘vaccine’ or a virus test, etc – the damage to the industry is such that there will be fewer airlines, fewer routes, and higher prices. Travel will become much more expensive, I fear.

363174 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tom in Scotland, 2, #1491 of 1795 🔗

Chill Tom – as soon as there’s a demand, someone will re-incarnate the Magic Bus …

363123 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nymeria, replying to Tom in Scotland, #1492 of 1795 🔗

Exactly how I feel. I’d love to travel again, but no way under these circumstances.

362908 ▶▶▶ Alan P, replying to rockoman, 3, #1493 of 1795 🔗

Maybe what’s driving the reduction in travel with all these restrictions is an ecological climate agenda?

362917 ▶▶▶▶ The Mask Exempt Covid Marshall, replying to Alan P, 2, #1494 of 1795 🔗

What does this do for the EU project, though? Freedom of movement in order to allow for cheaper labour etc?

362988 ▶▶▶▶ happychappy, replying to Alan P, 4, #1495 of 1795 🔗

This is exactly what I believe this is all about. I saw an article on the World Economic Forum website which claimed that the 3-month lockdown March to June resulted in a reduction of 7% in global CO2 emissions; an annual reduction of 7,5% is apparently required to meet targets agreed in the Paris Climate Agreement (although not sure for how many years!). Severe restrictions on travel – cars and public transport. Notice also the number of meat processing plants that have been targeted and forced to close, meat production claimed to be a major contributor to global warming (notice, however, that no mass testing is carried out in Amazon warehouses, also labour intensive. Wonder why..).

I also firmly believe that the utter destruction of the hospitality and catering sector is planned and deliberate, as it places additional demands on the food (meat) supply market, so has to go. I reckon eating out will become a thing of the past.

This just seems to me the most logical explanation for what is really happening.

363031 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ianric, replying to happychappy, 2, #1496 of 1795 🔗

It seems that lockdowns fit in with the green agenda and stopping people travelling is a part of this. Under lockdown people have nowhere to travel to as pubs, restaurants, cinemas, so called non essential shops, theatres and gyms are closed. The hope is that even if these places are allowed to open again many will have gone bust so the even with no lockdown people will still have nowhere to go to. Lockdown restrictions mean people can’t travel to different parts of the country. If people can’t visit friends or relatives, this takes away another reason to travel. Having to take dodgy PCR tests, quarantine rules and travel bans discourages people from travelling abroad. People are encourages to work from home. If businesses go bust and people loose their jobs, people have no jobs to go to. Even if you were allowed to travel to another part of the country, holiday breaks are not possible if hotels and visitor attractions are closed. This is ideal for greens as less travel means less CO2 emissions. Lockdowns are meant to prevent us having any life outside our homes.

An annual holiday has been a treat for me. I have been to a lot of foreign destinations. There are so many places I want to visit and the thought of never being able to travel again is horrific.

362835 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to Harrydean, 17, #1497 of 1795 🔗

God, yes. The words ”safe” and ”safety” trigger something in me that disturbs me greatly. I’ve never felt so angry as when I hear those words.

363061 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Harrydean, 2, #1498 of 1795 🔗

The whole myth of Europe being a beacon of freedom is crumbling. Borders going up, old animosity resumed. If we let them of course

362811 Schrodinger, replying to Schrodinger, 14, #1499 of 1795 🔗

A little graphic I made to put things in perspective a bit.

362827 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Schrodinger, 17, #1500 of 1795 🔗

Yes, cars do cause many readily preventable deaths; as do malnutrition, diarrhoea, lack of access to clean water, etc. If a fraction of the money that has been thrown away on this virus had been devoted to such problems tens of millions of lives would have been saved, every year. And yet the lockdownistas say, “If it saves just one life.”

362982 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Steve Hayes, 4, #1501 of 1795 🔗

But they don’t want to save lives. This is a cull.

363119 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Schrodinger, 1, #1502 of 1795 🔗

Indoor pollution from indoor cooking fires causing the majority of those 4.2 million deaths, not cars. With affordable energy, which we take for granted, most would not have died.

It’s the poor what gets the blame.

362824 bebophaircut, replying to bebophaircut, 7, #1503 of 1795 🔗

The Public: Complaisant. Compliant. Complicit.
Pfizer vaccine a hodge podge: Frances Leader.